Dominion Strategy Forum
Miscellaneous => Forum Games => Mafia Game Threads => Topic started by: Robz888 on May 01, 2017, 02:34:47 pm
-
Welcome to Mafia 100: Forum All-Stars
It was five years ago (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=2540.0) this very month that a group of f.ds regulars decided to play a game of online mafia. Ninety-nine games later, the Forum Games community is still going strong, featuring an ever-evolving cast of dedicated players.
Who knew that people who came together because of a shared love of playing games would also love playing games?
Remember the epic scum wins and hilarious town losses. Recall the mislynches, busses, and OMGUSes. Toast the fake claims--the creative and the awful. Join me, Robz888, in a celebration of all things mafia, and sign-up for our hundredth regular game.
This will be a semi-invented, open game modeled on faust's Pick Your Power X/Y/Z setup for Mafia 40 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=10391.0). Exact details--a list of all available PRs, role PMs, etc.--will be provided after the game has filled. The setup will be tweaked depending on the number of people playing. It's currently designed for about 18 people, but since this is a special occasion I will adjust it in order to accommodate up to 20 (ish) players. The game will not begin until either Mafia 98 or 99 are finished, or almost finished, unless otherwise agreed to by all the players.
Players List
1. JReggie
2. Galzria
3. gkrieg
4. The_Wine_Merchant
5. Calamitas
6. Eevee
7. faust
8. LaLight
9. Awaclus
10. SpaceAnemone
11. 2.71828.....
12.pingpongsam
13. Dylan32
14. RoadRunner
15.iguanaiguana
16. Jimmmmm
17. O
18. AndrewisFTTW
19. Cuzz
20. ashersky
21. JaketheBaseballGod22
22. mcmcsalot
23. sudgy
Substitutes: pacovf, WitherWeaver, Haddock
Rules:
This is a game. Everyone who signs up to play must be considerate of each other, never get personal, and focus on having fun. Once the game starts, having signed up is a commitment: inactivity is just as inconsiderate as rude comments. All players must have read, understood, and agreed to the Civility Pledge (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7695.0).
- No communication between players outside of the game thread or shared QTs at any time. This includes passing references, jokes, or cases in other games or threads, whether in context or not.
- If the game thread is locked, do not post. If you are unsure if something is locked, ask the mod by PM.
- Direct or verbatim quoting of mod-provided information is strictly forbidden. Paraphrasing is okay.
- Players must post once every 24-48 hours unless they have an announced V/LA. I am less strict about this than other mods, but please, if you agree to play the game, please play the game.
- Do not edit or delete posts, ever. If you need to clarify or correct something, post again.
- Invisible text, font size less than 10, and spoiler tags are not allowed. You may not use a font color other than black.
- Cryptography is not allowed. I am more strict about this than other mods. See this post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17200.msg690003#msg690003)for examples of things I consider to be cryptography. If you are trying to set up some kind of code, it's probably illegal, and you should ask me first.
- The time between a lynch being reached and a flip being provided is called twilight. All players may continue posting during this time, including the lynched player.
- Dead players may not post in thread or QT. A lynched player is not "dead" until a flip has been provided.
- Personal multimedia, such as video or audio recordings, are not allowed in the game thread.
The Voting Rules:
- Votes should be in this format: Vote: Playername. Votes must be bolded, must contain a colon, and there must be space between the colon and the player's name. If the vote doesn't show up on a normal CTRL + F search, it doesn't count. Capital letters are unnecessary. Unambiguous nicknames are acceptable.
- Unvotes should be in this format: unvote or Unvote: Playername.
- Unvotes are not required if changing your vote from oneplayer to another.
- You may vote: no lynch.
- Lynches occur when a simple majority (rounded up) of living players is reached, or when a player receives 10 votes. Once reached, a lynch cannot be undone.
The Rest:
- If you have an issue or problem with the game, please PM the Mod. Do not post complaints in the game thread.
- Mods make mistakes - please point them out gently. If they can be corrected, they will. If irreversible, they will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
- Ask all questions and make all requests directly to the Mod via PM. Questions deemed as "universal" (defined as questions for which the answers should be available to all players) will be requested to be re-posted in the Game Thread and answered there.
- Prods will be issued by request after 24-48 hours of inactivity unless otherwised covered by a VLA. Players are subject to replacement or modkill upon the third prod request.
- All rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, as determined by the mod.
Deadlines:
- Days will last seven IRL days.
- Nights will generally last two IRL days, but might in certain cases last longer.
Setup
This game includes 5 Mafia, 17 Townies, and 1 Odd-Night Bulletproof Serial Killer. The Serial Killer is automatically Odd-Night Bulletproof, regardless of whether the SK receives an additional PR from the slots. This causes the Serial Killer to survive a night kill on odd-numbered nights.
Mafia win condition: You win when the mafia are the only faction left alive, or nothing can prevent this from happening.
Town win condition: You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated, and at least one townie is still alive.
Serial Killer win condition: You win when you are the last player left alive, or nothing can prevent this from happening.
If a standoff scenario occurs, it will be resolved in favor of the mafia over the town, and the Serial Killer over both other factions. (If, during the final night, only the Serial Killer and a single mafia are still alive, and they can both shoot each other, the Serial Killer has won.)
The mafia and the Serial Killer possess factional kills. A player may not perform a factional kill and a night action, unless that player is the last living member of the faction.
Before the game begins, players will be assigned a position in the draft, 1 through 23. The method of determining draft order will not be explained ahead of time, and no one (not even the people who helped balance the setup) has been told what it is. Please do not publicly speculate or make guesses about it during pre-game discussion.
Once the draft order is determined, players will be told their position, and also, their alignment. Night 0 will begin--mafia will receive their QT--and all players will have the opportunity to bid for slots. The lowest numbered draftee wins each slot: If Galzria is draftee #12 and mcmcsalot is draftee #17, and they are the only bidders for a PR in Slot 3, Galzria wins the slot, wins the PR he wanted, and mcmcsalot becomes a Vanilla member of his faction. It occurs this way, even if Galzria and mcmcsalot were pursuing different PRs within Slot 3.
Mafia will be able to communicate with each other and strategize about their bidding during this process.
All players are allowed to bid for any role, even if they are incapable of using that role. For instance, the Innocent Child will have no effect if the Serial Killer or mafia win it.
One final note: The mod reserves the right to re-do the draft process if it results in a manifestly un-fun distribution of roles. If everybody goes for Slot 1, forcing us to play with 1 PR and 22 Vanilla/Goons, we will have a do-over.
-
Slot 1
2-shot Vigilante
Innocent Child
Investigation Immune
Slot 2:
Restless Sheeper
1-shot Commuter
1-shot Lightning Rod
Slot 3:
Alignment Cop
Roleblocker
Convert Serial Killer to Vanilla Townie
Slot 4
Role Cop
Watcher
Inventor
Slot 5
Doctor
JOAT (1-shot Ninja, 1-shot Strongman, 1-shot Roleblocker)
Convert Serial Killer to Survivor
Slot 6
Masonic Lover
Universal Backup
1-shot Bus Driver
Slot 7
Tracker
Godfather-er
1-shot Bulletproof
Slot 8
Strongman
Jailkeeper
Convert Serial Killer to Werewolf
Slot 9
1-shot Full Cop
Ninja
Hammer Hero
Slot 10
Motion Detector
Hider
Gambler
Slot 11
Random unchosen PR
Slot 12
Random unchosen PR
Random unchosen PR
Slot 13
Random unchosen PR
Random unchosen PR
Random unchosen PR
Slots 11, 12, and 13 will be filled with one, two, and three unclaimed PRs from the other slots. Only PRs that are at least plausibly useful in some scenario to this player's alignment will be included. If the Serial Killer wins Slot 12, for instance, neither of the PRs randomly chosen for this slot will be Innocent Child, Restless Sheeper, Inventor, Masonic Lover, Godfather-er, or Hider. If a Town-aligned players takes Slot 11, this player will not receive Strongman, Ninja, Godfather-er, or any Convert Serial Killer. Mafia would not receive Innocent Child, Masonic Lover, or any Convert Serial Killer. (Everything else is on the table.)
The winners of Slots 12 and 13 will be able to select their PR from the available choices. The winner of Slot 11 will have no choice and is effectively consenting to a fully random PR, albeit one the player is able to use based on alignment.
For balance purposes, all Not-Town aligned players will be told exactly which PRs were randomly included in these slots. They will not be told which PRs, if any, were chosen.
Sample Role PMs
2-shot Vigilante
You are the 2-shot Vigilante!
Galzria! Get in here and explain--better than I did--why the Vigilantes should just not shoot please.
At night, you may shoot one player. That player will be killed, unless otherwise protected.
You have 2 shots.
Innocent Child
You are the Innocent Child!
PS: Lekkit, quit attacking the innocent child. You can't possibly get more town than I am right now.
(If Town) The mod will automatically confirm you as town in the main thread at the start of Day 1.
(If Not-Town) This will have no effect.
Investigation Immune
You are Investigation Immune!
Uncannily convenient how everyone who investigates you turns out to be a spy. It's a damned spy conspiracy.
Yeah, I know how it looks.
If you are investigated by another player, that player will falsely receive the result, “No Result.”
The investigative roles in this setup are Alignment Cop, Role Cop, and 1-Shot Full Cop. The 1-Shot Psychologist invention may also perform an investigation.
Restless Sheeper
You are the Restless Sheeper!
And it's especially good for scum if a restless spirit dies first because of it (idk why I claimed restless spirit :( )
During the day, at any point in the game while you are still alive, you may publicly designate a sheep target. You do this by posting Sheep: X, where X is the name of the player you wish to sheep. You are not required to do this. You may not designate a sheep target after you have been lynched, even if the moderator has not yet confirmed your lynch.
If, after designating a sheep target, you die, your most recent sheep target will essentially receive a double vote. You will involuntarily vote for whichever player your sheep target votes for. This lasts for the rest of the game. Your vote will not count toward the total number of votes needed to achieve a lynch, since you are dead, but your vote itself will count.
1-Shot Commuter
You are the 1-Shot Commuter!
a commuter has to choose to commute in general. And he didn't commute because he died.
If he had commuted he probably wouldn't have died.
At night, you may choose to commute. If you do, no other night action will impact you.
You may only do this once.
1-Shot Lightning Rod
You are the 1-Shot Lightning Rod!
Ahh, lightning Rod, worst role ever!
At night, you may choose to activate the lightning rod. All night actions will redirect to you. (Passive actions, which do not require one player to target another, will not be redirected.) You will automatically become the target of any night action taken by another player. (Other exception: Hammer Hero, which happens first.)
You may only do this once.
Alignment Cop
You are the Alignment Cop!
So you are asking what's the thing you did that is most scummy in my eyes? That's not easy... I agree that the post about how scum might to frame you by killing yuma is a tad scummy.That would probably be it. Though it is on no level the same as saying "cop me!"
At night, you may target a player. You will be told if that player is “Town-aligned” or “Not Town-aligned.”
Roleblocker
You are the Roleblocker!
only two deaths. either:
- mafia didn't shoot. why??
- SK didn't shoot. why??
- vig didn't shoot. why?? :(
- mafia got roleblocked :)
- vig got roleblocked :(
At night, you may target a player. That player’s night actions will fail, unless they have higher priority in the order of operations. If that player performs an action that receives a result, they will receive “No Result.”
Convert Serial Killer to Vanilla Townie
You have chosen to Convert the Serial Killer to a Vanilla Townie! This fails unless you are the Serial Killer.
Joseph's town guys. He's acting like SK, and there's no serial killer this game.
(If Town or Mafia) This role has no effect.
(If Serial Killer) You are now Town-aligned and share the town’s win condition. Your role is Vanilla Townie. You are no longer Odd-Night Bulletproof.
Role Cop
You are the Role Cop!
I would sort of assume that anyone who had caught scum would have said something by now. I only point out that Role Cop vanilla results would be useful if they are on someone alive in case someone who hasn't been paying attention needed reminding.
At night, you may target a player. You will be told that player’s Role.
Watcher
You are the Watcher!
everybody knows for a fact that cayvie targeted young nick last night. the assertion is watcher, not tracker.... which is something you definitely understood earlier in the evening. you are pretending not to understand!
vote: O
At night, you may target a player. If that player is targeted by something other than this, you will be told which players, if any, targeted the player you targeted.
Inventor
You are the Inventor!
Iguana should counterclaim so he can eat his socks now rather than later.
Let's have like 6 town fruit inventors claim. It will be tons of fun
Each night, you may build one invention. During the day, at any time before a lynch is reached, you may privately choose to give the invention to another player. This player will not be told who gave him the invention (except in the case of the Neighbor invention), but will be told how the invention works. Some inventions take effect immediately, others can be used the following night. (Note: These inventions are not considered Roles, and cannot be discovered by a Role Cop. They are not revealed upon the death of the player.)
Here are the inventions you can build. You may only build each invention once.
- 1-shot Psychologist: The player who receives this invention can investigate a single player at night and learn whether that player is, under certain circumstances, capable of performing a kill. This investigation will yield a false negative if the player has already killed. Mafia members, the Serial Killer, the Vigilante, Werewolves, and the Hammer Hero are all capable of performing kills. Any of these would yield an affirmative “capable of killing” unless they had already successfully killed a player.
- 1-shot Motivator: If the player who receives this invention is capable of performing a night action, the player may use this invention to perform the night action a second time (like the Dominion card “Throne Room”). This fails if the player was already out of shots before receiving the invention.
- Next-Night Deathproof: The player who receives this invention cannot die the following night, except to the Hammer Hero, whose action takes precedence.
- Same-Day Beloved: The player who receives this invention will take one extra vote to be lynched that day.
- 1-shot Poisoner: The player who receives this invention may poison a single player at night. That player will die at the end of the following night, unless the action was blocked (on the night the poison shot is fired) or doctored (on the night the poison shot should take effect).
- Neighbor: The player who receives this invention will immediately be given a private QT with the Inventor. This QT remains open until one of the players dies.
Doctor
You are the Doctor!
Actually, Robz and I rarely lied in this game.
Except for the BIG GIANT DOCTOR lie that I absolutely spotted from the moment it was uttered.
Yes Volt, let's enjoy this delicious crow. Also I'm sorry I targeted you, you're a good guy, etc., etc.
At night, you may target another player. That player will be protected from a night kill.
Jack of All Trades
You are the Jack of All Trades!
When did I ever get lucky with my JoaT powers?
You have the following powers: 1-Shot Ninja, 1-Shot Strongman, and 1-Shot Roleblocker. At night, you may perform one of those actions.
If you use the Ninja shot, and you perform a kill, the kill will not be observed by a Tracker, Watcher, or Motion Detector. If you use the Strongman shot, and you perform a kill, the kill will not be stopped by a Roleblocker, Doctor, or Jailkeeper, unless multiple blocks or protections are used.
If you use the 1-Shot Roleblocker, you may target a player. That player’s night actions will fail. If that player performs an action that receives a result, they will receive “No Result.”
Convert Serial Killer to Survivor
You have chosen to Convert the Serial Killer to a Survivor! This fails unless you are the Serial Killer.
What is a man to do, I drew survivor I have to play for the wincon they gave me. Again, I would prefer to win with town, and am willing to help you to best of my abilities - just not willing to sacrifice myself and lose the game.
You said you would rather win with town, and I understand you saying that, but you now have a 0% chance of winning with town and a 100% chance of winning with scum.
(If Town or Mafia) This role has no effect.
(If Serial Killer) Your alignment remains “not town-aligned,” but you are no longer a Serial Killer. You have lost your ability to perform a kill and are no longer Odd-Night Bulletproof. Here is your new wincon: “If either of the other faction’s wincons are met, or would be met if you were no longer alive, and you are still alive, the game ends and you win as well.” In practice, this means that if all the mafia are dead, and you are still alive, you win with the town. If all the town is dead or nothing can prevent the mafia from killing the remaining town members, you win in addition to the mafia.
Masonic Lover
You are a Masonic Lover!
Grujah, why the vote on me? I'm a freaking mason! We are confirmed town to each other with arch..
(If Not-Town) This role has no effect.
(If Town) A random Vanilla Townie will receive a QT with you. (This player's role will now be considered Masonic Lover for investigatory purposes.) This QT is always open. You will be confirmed town to each other.
If you die, this other player dies as well, unless protected from a kill. But if the other player dies, you will not die.
Universal Backup
You are the Universal Backup!
Don't waste time voting me, I'm the universal backup.
The first time a player with a role dies, you will automatically inherit that role. If multiple players with roles die during the same game phase, you may choose which role you inherit. If the role you would inherit has no shots remaining, you will receive a single shot.
Once you inherit a role, you will no longer be considered a Universal Backup for investigatory purposes. Your role will be the role you inherited.
(You cannot inherit the Masonic Lover role, or any Convert Serial Killer role.)
(If you inherit the Inventor role, and the Inventor had a neighbor QT with another player, you will receive access to that QT.)
1-Shot Bus Driver
You are the 1-Shot Bus Driver!
I'm the bus driver.
Seriously? (just making sure, because it wasn't bolded, and it is you...)
Don't make me turn this bus around!
At night, you may target two players. You may target yourself. Whatever happens to one player will instead happen to the other player, and vice versa. Actions will be redirected to the other player.
You may do this once.
Tracker
You are a Tracker!
I targeted SA, whom I though most universally town-read (so a likely target for a mafia kill). Received no result.
I thought you were a Tracker?
At night, you may choose a player. You will be told which players were targeted by that player.
Godfather-er
You are the Godfather-er!
There are like 12,000 cops and none of them investigated me, huh?
Why so eager to be investigated?
GodfatherGodfatherGodfather
At night, you may choose another player. That player will become a hidden Godfather.
A Godfather will return the result “town-aligned” if investigated by the Alignment Cop or 1-Shot Full Cop. (Godfather status cannot be determined by a Role Cop; a Godfather-ed player retains his previous role.)
1-Shot Bulletproof
You are 1-Shot Bulletproof!
Oh and i'm town, just in case that wasn't clear.
It sure wasn't.
At night, if you are targeted by a kill, that kill will fail.
This only works once, but the shot is only use up if the kill would have succeeded if not for the bulletproof status.
Strongman
You are the Strongman!
Oh, I just said "strongman" was that a scumslip? No. No it was not.
At night, if you perform a kill, the kill will not be stopped by a Roleblocker, Doctor, or Jailkeeper, unless multiple blocks or protections are used.
Jailkeeper
You are the Jailkeeper!
Jailkeeper is like, my role, man. I'm always the Jailkeeper.
At night, you may target a player. This player will be protected from a kill, and also, this player’s actions will fail. If this player would have received a result, the player will instead receive “No Result.”
Convert Serial Killer to Werewolf
You have chosen to Convert the Serial Killer to Werewolf! This fails unless you are the Serial Killer.
Is that werewolf faction, or like someone who hunts werewolves?
(If Town or Mafia) This has no effect.
(If Serial Killer) You are no longer a Serial Killer. You are now a Werewolf-aligned Werewolf. You are still Odd-Night Bulletproof.
A random Town-aligned player who did not receive a role will be made a fellow Werewolf-aligned Werewolf. (Note: This is the only PR that causes an alignment change, and it takes place during Night 0.) This player will be presented with two roles that were not selected by other players as part of the draft, and can choose one. (This will only include roles the Werewolf can actually use: i.e., no Innocent Child.) The Werewolves possess a factional kill and QT. The Werewolves win when they are the only faction left alive, or nothing can stop this from happening. The Werewolves, like the Serial Killer, take precedence in standoff scenarios.
1-shot Full Cop
You are the 1-Shot Full Cop!
I don't think you understand how this game works. For the entirety of the game, most of us will never have any evidence at all. It's all guesswork and handicraft.
Even when a cop claims to have caught mafia at night, the "cop" could be lying.
At night, you may target a player. You will be told that player’s precise Alignment (Town, Mafia, Serial Killer, Survivor, or Werewolf) and Role, and if they have owned any inventions.
You may only do this once.
Ninja
You are the Ninja!
They never used their ninja shot.
Seriously ?
How could you ?
What ?
That's, like, meta ninja.
so ninja he doesn't even need a ninja shot
Not using the ninja shot was the true misdirection.
At night, if you perform a kill, the kill will not be detected by a Watcher, Tracker, or Motion Detector.
Hammer Hero
You are the Hammer Hero!
It was all worth it to see O lecture us about quickhammering.
If you cast the hammer vote—the vote that causes a lynch—you gain a special night ability for the subsequent night only. You can choose one of the following options:
A) You are completely safe from death that night
B) You can fire an un-blockable, un-traceable kill shot (will not be stopped by any means except Commuting, or detected by a Watcher, Tracker, or Motion Detector)
Motion Detector
You are the Motion Detector!
Okay guys, I'm really sorry. I forgot I was the Motion Tracker. I wasn't even that busy, I just completely forgot. Really sorry!!!
At night, you may target a player. You will receive the result “Motion detected” or “No motion detected.” You will detect motion if your target takes a night action, or is targeted by a night action other than the Motion Detector.
Hider
You are the Hider!
He didn't claim Hider, so why would you even mention this? Bad.
At night, you may hide behind a player. Any action taken against you will fail (except the Hammer Hero’s kill). But if the player you hid behind is killed, you are killed as well.
If you hide behind a player who is not aligned with the same faction as you, you will die.
Gambler
You are the Gambler!
Nobody is lynching him, so let's see if my gamble pays off.
At night, you may bet on one player by targeting that player. If that player is lynched the following day, you win your bet. As a reward, you may choose from the following list of non-killing PRs, and perform one of them the subsequent night:
Commuting, Alignment Copping, Roleblocking, Role Copping, Watching, Doctoring, Tracking, Jailkeeping
-
Order of Operations
Commuting
Hammer Hero killing / self-protecting
Hiding
Lightning Rod activates
Bus Driving
Other actions happen simultaneously (Roleblocking takes priority over jailing if there’s a conflict)
After all else… Godfather-ing takes effect (does not register same night)
Link to Power Role interaction clarifications. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg694983#msg694983)
Current Game State
1. JReggie, the Vanilla Townie, Lynched Day 1
2. Galzria, the Mafia-Aligned Jailkeeper, Survived
3. gkrieg, the Vanilla Townie, Killed Night 1
4. The_Wine_Merchant, the Town-aligned Hider, Killed Night 3
5. Calamitas, the Mafia Goon, Killed Night 1
6. Eevee, the Masonic Lover, Killed Night 2
7. faust, the Town-Aligned 2-Shot Vigilante, Killed Night 6
8. LaLight, the Mafia-Aligned Godfather-er, Lynched Day 6
9. Awaclus, the Vanilla Townie, Killed Night 7
10. SpaceAnemone, the Vanilla Townie, Lynched Day 9
11. 2.71828....., the Odd-Night Bulletproof Serial Killer and 1-Shot Bus Driver, Lynched Day 3
12. pingpongsam, the Town-aligned Restless Sheeper, Killed Night 3
13. Dylan32, the Vanilla Townie, Endgamed
14. RoadRunner7671, the Vanilla Townie, Lynched Day 7
15. iguanaiguana, the Mafia Goon, Lynched Day 5
16. Jimmmmm, the Masonic Lover, Killed Night 5
17. O, the Vanilla Townie, Killed Night 9
18. AndrewisFTTW, the Vanilla Townie, Lynched Day 2
19. Cuzz, the Vanilla Townie, Killed Night 2
20. ashersky, the Mafia Goon, Lynched Day 4
21. JaketheBaseballGod22, the Town-aligned Tracker, Killed Night 4
22. mcmcsalot, the Town-aligned Hammer Hero, Killed Night 3
23. sudgy, the Vanilla Townie, Lynched Day 8
Day 1 start (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg693461#msg693461)
Night 1 start (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg694982#msg694982)
Day 2 start (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg695151#msg695151)
Night 2 start (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg696776#msg696776)
Day 3 start (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg697118#msg697118)
Night 3 start (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg698508#msg698508)
Day 4 start (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg698807#msg698807)
Night 4 start (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg699660#msg699660)
Day 5 start (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg700056#msg700056)
Night 5 start (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg700897#msg700897)
Day 6 start (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg701431#msg701431)
Night 6 start (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg702645#msg702645)
Day 7 start (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg702754#msg702754)
Night 7 start (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg704468#msg704468)
Day 8 start (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg704586#msg704586)
Night 8 start (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg705886#msg705886)
Day 9 start (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg705903#msg705903)
-
/in
-
In
-
In
Wow-wee.
In!!
-
/in
-
In
Wow-wee.
In!!
:D
-
/in! Galzria, nice to see you! I've read many and more of your games and is a fan :)
-
/in, 100 games...I still remember my first game ever which was a blitz game I signed up for while I was impatiently waiting for the regular game to start. I drew scum with shraeye and eevee and they set me up to semi quickhammer for our flawless victory. I felt so spoiled by having two amazingly smart and kind people to help me get introduced to the forum and it was not long after that that I realized miraculously that was almost everyone who plays and contributes here in forum mafia. Looking forward to 100 more games and keeping this gem of a community alive!
-
/in
-
\in!!!
Good game to come back I think ;-)
-
/in, 100 games...I still remember my first game ever which was a blitz game I signed up for while I was impatiently waiting for the regular game to start. I drew scum with shraeye and eevee and they set me up to semi quickhammer for our flawless victory. I felt so spoiled by having two amazingly smart and kind people to help me get introduced to the forum and it was not long after that that I realized miraculously that was almost everyone who plays and contributes here in forum mafia. Looking forward to 100 more games and keeping this gem of a community alive!
:) :)
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4412.0 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4412.0) I believe this is the biggest game we've ever had, also ran by Robz. Maybe it can give someone some indication what a game this size might look like. Is 164 pages also the longest we've ever gone?
I'm very pumped for this!
-
/in
-
/in! Galzria, nice to see you! I've read many and more of your games and is a fan :)
Thank you! I'm super excited to be back and playing. It's been so long now... But I couldn't pass up this milestone of a game! I'm just sad that my original scumbuddy Robz can't mod and play simultaneously!
-
/in
-
/in! Galzria, nice to see you! I've read many and more of your games and is a fan :)
Thank you! I'm super excited to be back and playing. It's been so long now... But I couldn't pass up this milestone of a game! I'm just sad that my original scumbuddy Robz can't mod and play simultaneously!
Can't he? :) Knowing Robz I wouldn't be surprised..
-
/in! Galzria, nice to see you! I've read many and more of your games and is a fan :)
Thank you! I'm super excited to be back and playing. It's been so long now... But I couldn't pass up this milestone of a game! I'm just sad that my original scumbuddy Robz can't mod and play simultaneously!
Can't he? :) Knowing Robz I wouldn't be surprised..
There was once a bastard game where all players were Robz888: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=2969.0
-
/in :-)
-
/in! Galzria, nice to see you! I've read many and more of your games and is a fan :)
Thank you! I'm super excited to be back and playing. It's been so long now... But I couldn't pass up this milestone of a game! I'm just sad that my original scumbuddy Robz can't mod and play simultaneously!
Can't he? :) Knowing Robz I wouldn't be surprised..
There was once a bastard game where all players were Robz888: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=2969.0
I was going to say I liked the bastard game where axle played twice...then I saw ehalcyon signed up three times! What lunacy
-
/in
-
Well, /in
The game that the setup is based upon is Mafia 40, not Mafia 50, by the way.
-
Well, /in
The game that the setup is based upon is Mafia 40, not Mafia 50, by the way.
Thank you! Fixed. This is, in fact, the exact reason I petitioned the community to stop using Roman numerals.
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=11311.0
-
/in
-
/tag
-
/in
-
The question is... Do I play this even when I don't like big games and I have college and I'm not too good at this game?
-
The question is... Do I play this even when I don't like big games and I have college and I'm not too good at this game?
Probably?
-
/in
-
The question is... Do I play this even when I don't like big games and I have college and I'm not too good at this game?
I suck and I'm playing anyway just for kicks.
-
hahahahahaha /tag
-
/in
-
/in
-
/in
-
/tag
-
When is this starting?
-
When is this starting?
It won't start until Mafia 98 or Mafia 99 are completed, or nearing completion, unless all the players agree to start earlier.
In reality, I expect the game to start later this month. Maybe 2 or 3 weeks from now, but that's just an estimate.
-
And if you don't feel like signing up, it would be nice to have a backup replacement, just in case.
-
I'll just /in.
-
I'll just /in.
That works too!
-
/in
-
/tag
Doo it! First regular mafia game partner in mafia 21, a game we also executed flawlessly!
-
I'll just /in.
Yaaaaay I hate big games to, can't wait!
-
/in
-
/out
-
/out
:(
-
/out
:'(
-
/in
-
/in
Liar! Scum! Let's lynch ash! Oh wait I'm not supposed to say that until the game starts, my bad.
-
/tag
-
Robz, by the way.
As far as I don't like long deadlines, but I would make first couple of Days 10 IRL days each, or we'll go crazy
-
Robz, by the way.
As far as I don't like long deadlines, but I would make first couple of Days 10 IRL days each, or we'll go crazy
I think shorter deadlines are desirable with a vast amount of people. M31 had shortened D1 deadlines and I think the first Day was still 60 pages.
-
Don't worry about the deadline, I'll probably be lynched in the first 72 hours or so anyways.
-
Robz, by the way.
As far as I don't like long deadlines, but I would make first couple of Days 10 IRL days each, or we'll go crazy
I totally understand what you are saying, but it has been my experience that this is exactly backwards... longer days with huge numbers of players make the game unwieldy, people fall behind, and there's just no pressure to get a lynch. I actually think there's better case for having shorter Day 1. In fact...
-
Robz, by the way.
As far as I don't like long deadlines, but I would make first couple of Days 10 IRL days each, or we'll go crazy
I totally understand what you are saying, but it has been my experience that this is exactly backwards... longer days with huge numbers of players make the game unwieldy, people fall behind, and there's just no pressure to get a lynch. I actually think there's better case for having shorter Day 1. In fact...
yeah, I got it :)
-
/in
Liar! Scum! Let's lynch ash! Oh wait I'm not supposed to say that until the game starts, my bad.
Still won't be lynched if I'm scum, then you can say I told you so at the end after you lose.
Or I will self-hammer as town. Gotta keep to our stereotypes for this game.
-
Sign-ups are now closed.
-
Given the number of people playing, the possibility that we will need replacements cannot be overlooked. If you did not sign up like to be considered a sub, please tag /sub.
-
Sure, /sub
-
My tentative plan is to start the game in about 10 days, which will give Mafias 98 and 99 time to get closer to their end, and also happens to be the exact 5 year anniversary of Forum mafia. (If both games are still nowhere near over, and tying up too many players, it's no problem to delay.)
Setup information will be posted in the coming days.
-
My tentative plan is to start the game in about 10 days, which will give Mafias 98 and 99 time to get closer to their end, and also happens to be the exact 5 year anniversary of Forum mafia. (If both games are still nowhere near over, and tying up too many players, it's no problem to delay.)
Setup information will be posted in the coming days.
Well that is disappointing. ;)
And fully understandable.
-
My tentative plan is to start the game in about 10 days, which will give Mafias 98 and 99 time to get closer to their end, and also happens to be the exact 5 year anniversary of Forum mafia. (If both games are still nowhere near over, and tying up too many players, it's no problem to delay.)
Setup information will be posted in the coming days.
That is also almost perfectly past the end of the semester.
-
I have posted some setup information. I plan to slowly unveil the slots over the coming days, just for fun.
-
/sub
-
I like this trickle setup. I can actually read it and absorb it a piece at a time. My time has come, I will be a setup juggernaut this game.
-
I like this trickle setup. I can actually read it and absorb it a piece at a time. My time has come, I will be a setup juggernaut this game.
Remind me of this once the game starts and I try to call you out for knowing too much of the setup compared to your meta.
-
I like this trickle setup. I can actually read it and absorb it a piece at a time. My time has come, I will be a setup juggernaut this game.
Remind me of this once the game starts and I try to call you out for knowing too much of the setup compared to your meta.
Yeah, maybe, I was going more for the humor found in the idea that this could ever happen.
-
Could you post when you unveil more slots? Easier to see where to look for the information.
-
Could you post when you unveil more slots? Easier to see where to look for the information.
Will do.
-
I like this trickle setup. I can actually read it and absorb it a piece at a time. My time has come, I will be a setup juggernaut this game.
Remind me of this once the game starts and I try to call you out for knowing too much of the setup compared to your meta.
Yeah, maybe, I was going more for the humor found in the idea that this could ever happen.
Don't worry. I got a nice hearty chuckle reading it.
-
Dang, didn't see this. /sub
-
Slots 3 and 4 have been unveiled.
-
So just to double check I have the draft process down, at most (but not necessarily) one role from each Slot is awarded to anyone, so the number of special roles is capped at the number of slots?
-
So just to double check I have the draft process down, at most (but not necessarily) one role from each Slot is awarded to anyone, so the number of special roles is capped at the number of slots?
This is correct.
-
But if no one bids in a certain slot, then no PR from that slot will be handed out. Right?
-
But if no one bids in a certain slot, then no PR from that slot will be handed out. Right?
That is generally correct. There is an exception that will become clear as I reveal the final slots.
-
Slot 5 has been unveiled.
-
ok /sub
-
Restless Sheeper looks fun
-
well, M99 is over ;);););)
-
By the way, I checked the rules and saw that lynches only occur on majority, i.e. 12 players on a single wagon on D1. Maybe that can be relaxed at least on the first couple of days? Or not. Could be fun this way too.
-
By the way, I checked the rules and saw that lynches only occur on majority, i.e. 12 players on a single wagon on D1. Maybe that can be relaxed at least on the first couple of days? Or not. Could be fun this way too.
I think it's fun this way
-
By the way, I checked the rules and saw that lynches only occur on majority, i.e. 12 players on a single wagon on D1. Maybe that can be relaxed at least on the first couple of days? Or not. Could be fun this way too.
I think it's fun this way
I'm not a fan of lynches by default, however, 12 players might be a bit much. I think I'll relax it to 10.
-
Slots 6 and 7 have been unveiled!
Expect several more unveilings today...
-
Restless Sheeper looks fun
That role was born of an effort to weaken the Restless Spirit, which is not the greatest town role but would be actually super duper strong in mafia hands.
-
Are we allowed to discuss bidding strategy before the game starts?
-
Are we allowed to discuss bidding strategy before the game starts?
No! Do not do this. You can discuss the PRs abstractly, but not anything having to do with the drafting or bidding process.
-
Ok :)
-
Is bullet proof notified when they are no longer bullet proof?
-
Is bullet proof notified when they are no longer bullet proof?
Nope.
-
Is bullet proof notified when they are no longer bullet proof?
Nope.
Take note of this, however: I have added a clarification to the 1-shot Bulletproof. The shot is only used up if the player needed it in order to survive the kill. For instance, an Odd-Night Bulletproof Serial Killer who is also 1-shot Bulletproof would not lose the 1-shot Bulletproof if targeted for death on an odd-numbered night, because the SK would survive that kill anyway.
-
Slot 8 has been unveiled.
-
Slot 8 has been unveiled.
Wow, it has werewolves!!! :-)
Do they get a faction QT and an NK? It doesn't explicitly say so, and I know my IRL werewolf experience was quite dissimilar to the way things are done around here, so I just want to make sure it works the way I'd expect it to...
-
Slot 8 has been unveiled.
Wow, it has werewolves!!! :-)
Do they get a faction QT and an NK? It doesn't explicitly say so, and I know my IRL werewolf experience was quite dissimilar to the way things are done around here, so I just want to make sure it works the way I'd expect it to...
The Werewolves have a factional QT and night kill, yes. I will add a clarifying note.
-
I'm so excited about this setup!
-
Slot 9, which contains a never-before-seen, fully custom role, the Hammer Hero, has been unveiled.
-
I am confused by Full-Cop and Godfatherer
-
/unsub whoops
-
I am confused by Full-Cop and Godfatherer
Sorry about that, there was some ambiguity. It has been fixed. A Godfather-ed player will read "Town" if investigated by a 1-shot Full Cop. It will not be evident to the cop that the player has been Godfather-ed.
-
I miss Hydrad.
-
It's unclear from the PM whether the Hammer Hero receives their special power for the night after the hammer only or if they can use it at any point from then on.
-
It's unclear from the PM whether the Hammer Hero receives their special power for the night after the hammer only or if they can use it at any point from then on.
Only for the night after the hammer. I will clarify.
-
It's unclear from the PM whether the Hammer Hero receives their special power for the night after the hammer only or if they can use it at any point from then on.
Only for the night after the hammer. I will clarify.
The ability activates after every hammer vote the player casts or just once?
-
It's unclear from the PM whether the Hammer Hero receives their special power for the night after the hammer only or if they can use it at any point from then on.
Only for the night after the hammer. I will clarify.
The ability activates after every hammer vote the player casts or just once?
After every hammer vote the player casts.
-
Slot 10 has been unveiled.
-
Is the claiming of draft order allowed?
-
Is the claiming of draft order allowed?
Once the game is underway, yes.
-
The final three slots have been unveiled. The full setup is revealed.
-
I have added some clarifications about which roles could appear in Slots 11, 12, and 13, and which roles could be inherited by the Universal Backup.
-
- Lynches occur when a simple majority (rounded up) of living players is reached, or when a player receives 10 votes. Once reached, a lynch cannot be undone.
Wait, so with 23 alive it will take 10 votes to lynch?
-
- Lynches occur when a simple majority (rounded up) of living players is reached, or when a player receives 10 votes. Once reached, a lynch cannot be undone.
Wait, so with 23 alive it will take 10 votes to lynch?
Yep. I think that will make lynching a little easier. I don't like default lynches, so this is a compromise.
-
I haven't played in forever, so I forget--do NKs and power roles get executed night 0, or is it just for the bidding process?
-
I haven't played in forever, so I forget--do NKs and power roles get executed night 0, or is it just for the bidding process?
Just bidding I think. I know you can't use your action N0 unless specifically stated in your role.
-
I haven't played in forever, so I forget--do NKs and power roles get executed night 0, or is it just for the bidding process?
Just bidding I think. I know you can't use your action N0 unless specifically stated in your role.
It's never stopped me from trying. Some mods are insistent that it can't be done but occasionally I can convince one to give me an empty confirmed.
-
I haven't played in forever, so I forget--do NKs and power roles get executed night 0, or is it just for the bidding process?
Just bidding I think. I know you can't use your action N0 unless specifically stated in your role.
It's never stopped me from trying. Some mods are insistent that it can't be done but occasionally I can convince one to give me an empty confirmed.
PPS vigs PPS confirmed
-
I haven't played in forever, so I forget--do NKs and power roles get executed night 0, or is it just for the bidding process?
There won't be power usage Night 0. There will be draft ordering, QT discussion for mafia members, and bidding.
-
I haven't played in forever, so I forget--do NKs and power roles get executed night 0, or is it just for the bidding process?
There won't be power usage Night 0. There will be draft ordering, QT discussion for mafia members, and bidding.
Got it. I am pretty sure I remember a game when I was killed Night 0, but I couldn't remember if that was a standard thing or not.
-
Reminder: This game begins tomorrow! At which point I will lock this thread, send every player a QT, and publish a set of instructions that each player must complete.
-
I haven't played in forever, so I forget--do NKs and power roles get executed night 0, or is it just for the bidding process?
There won't be power usage Night 0. There will be draft ordering, QT discussion for mafia members, and bidding.
Do werewolves have a QT N0?
-
I haven't played in forever, so I forget--do NKs and power roles get executed night 0, or is it just for the bidding process?
There won't be power usage Night 0. There will be draft ordering, QT discussion for mafia members, and bidding.
Do werewolves have a QT N0?
What about Cultists?
-
I haven't played in forever, so I forget--do NKs and power roles get executed night 0, or is it just for the bidding process?
There won't be power usage Night 0. There will be draft ordering, QT discussion for mafia members, and bidding.
Do werewolves have a QT N0?
I think the Werewolves don't actually exist until after the bidding process, and only then if SK converts.
-
Oh. I missed the part where Werewolves can actually be in the game.
-
What happens in a VT/Mafia/Survivor endgame? Do Mafia/Survivor win since Mafia would win if the Survivor was dead? Or does the game continue and the Survivor choose who wins with them since something (ie the Survivor) can prevent Mafia from killing the Town?
-
I haven't played in forever, so I forget--do NKs and power roles get executed night 0, or is it just for the bidding process?
There won't be power usage Night 0. There will be draft ordering, QT discussion for mafia members, and bidding.
Do werewolves have a QT N0?
This is a serious question
-
I haven't played in forever, so I forget--do NKs and power roles get executed night 0, or is it just for the bidding process?
There won't be power usage Night 0. There will be draft ordering, QT discussion for mafia members, and bidding.
Do werewolves have a QT N0?
Yes, they do. After the Werewolf recruit selects a PR, the pair will receive their QT. They will be able to chat briefly before Day 1 begins. This is also true for the mafia--there will be a brief period for them to talk after they learn whether they have received the PRs they each pursued.
Night 0 will last longer than 48 hours--it will last as long as it needs to, for everything to happen. Subsequent nights will be kept to a stricter time limit.
-
What happens in a VT/Mafia/Survivor endgame? Do Mafia/Survivor win since Mafia would win if the Survivor was dead? Or does the game continue and the Survivor choose who wins with them since something (ie the Survivor) can prevent Mafia from killing the Town?
This would probably result in a Mafia/Survivor win, since if the Survivor was not present, the Mafia would have generally satisfied its win condition.
However, there is at least one situation I can think of where Town/Survivor would win here. If the mafia member had already been poisoned by the Poisoner invention, and was going to die the next night, and the Townie was 1-shot Bulletproof, then it would be the case that the mafia could not kill the Townie at night, and the mafia was going to die. Since, in this case, the Mafia is effectively end-gamed, the Town and Survivor would win.
-
Generally, there will be no kingmaking scenario. In a true kingmaking scenario, Serial Killer / Werewolf > Mafia > Town. The Survivor complicates matters a bit; I would resolve things by giving the Survivor the win, ignore its ability to make a kingmaking move, and resolve the other players based on what would happen without a Survivor, and award a co-winner.
I hope that's clear...
-
And LET THE GAME BEGIN.
Thread locked. QTs going out shortly. These are just personal QTs--you will not receive your alignment until after draft order is determined.
You will receive further instructions on that front shortly. Look for another post here after I send out QTs.
-
THREAD LOCKED EXCEPT FOR TAGS
-
Please answer the following questions in your personal QTs. Your answers will help determine the draft order, but perhaps not in the way you think.
1) Pretend that you are town. Assuming that you are town, what is the 5-person mafia team you fear the most? List 5 of the 22 players (other than yourself).
2) Continue assuming you are town. In order to give the town the best chance at winning, which 5 town-aligned players other than yourself would you be most comfortable receiving powers? List 5 players (you may repeat players from the previous question--this question does not assume that your previous 5 were selected as mafia). Unlike question #1, order matters here: your first choice is the person you would want to have a power the most, your second choice the next most, and so on.
3) What was your favorite regular game of mafia on this forum, 1 through 99? (Don't pick 98, which is ongoing.)
-
Update: Still waiting on four people.
-
Thank you for your responses. Now it's time for Part 2. Please answer three more questions. THE MORE ACCURATE YOUR ANSWERS, THE BETTER YOUR POSITION IN THE DRAFT.
1) Guess the most formidable mafia team. Which five players received the most votes in response to question 1 in the previous round? (you may include yourself)
2) List the top 10 players (you may include yourself) who you believe received the most support for powers in question 2 of the previous round. For this question, order matters.
3) Which mafia game was the winner of question 3—this group’s favorite game? Pick just one game, 1 through 99, excluding 98.
Your answers are due within the next 24 hours!
-
We are still waiting on 8 people, including some people who already submitted but did not realize that Part 2 requires TEN RANKED NAMES for Question 2, not just five.
-
The draft ordering process is now finished. Next, I will post your order number, and your alignment, in your personal QT. The mafia will also receive their factional QT.
Please indicate in your QT (personal or factional) which Power Role you plan to bid on. Submit orders like this:
Bid: 2-Shot Vigilante (Slot 1)
Or, if you are pursuing slots 11, 12, or 13, just write:
Bid: Slot 11
The draft ordering process was as follows:
1. Correct guesses for question one were worth 5 points. Guessing the entire "most formidable" mafia team would have yielded 25 max points. (At least one player guessed all five.)
2. Correct guesses for question two were worth 3 points. 2 extra points were given for each guess that was ordered correctly. 1 point was subtracted for each wrong guess. A perfect score would have yielded 50 points if the answers were in the exact right order. Most players scored in the 15-20 range.
3. A correct answer here was worth 100 points--in practice, any player who got this right was automatically advanced to the front of the pack. (At least one player got this right.)
The highest-scoring player has position #1 in the draft, the next-highest has position #2, and so on.
After the game is finished, I can give you your score and the correct answers. For now, I will say no more about it.
SUBMIT YOUR BIDS BY MONDAY, MAY 15TH AT 1 PM FORUM TIME.
-
Everyone should have their alignment and draft number. Check your QTs. PM me if not. Bids are due by 1 PM Monday.
-
I'm actually going to extend the deadline a bit, since it's the weekend.
Submit bids by 1:00 PM on Monday.
-
Deadline was extended to 5:00 PM on account of me telling some people the wrong time, but I reserve the right to proceed a little early.
-
Check your QTs shortly, where I will post your role, in one the following possible formats:
X, the Vanilla Townie.
X, the Mafia Goon.
X, the Y-Aligned [Power Role].
X, the Y-Aligned winner of Slot 11/12/13. Choices will follow.
X has been converted from a Serial Killer into a Survivor.
X has been converted from a Serial Killer into a Werewolf. Instructions will follow.
(It is possible that if you are Vanilla Townie you will be converted into a Mason or Werewolf shortly.)
-
If you have been given a choice, please make it immediately. Day 1 begins tomorrow, Tuesday, at 10:00 AM Forum Time.
-
DAY 1 START!
Robz888 and ftl
Sitting in a tree
L Y N C H I N G
First comes the votes
then comes the night
Then comes the mafia with their mafia coats
Day 1 ends on Tuesday, May 23 at 10:00 AM Forum Time.
THREAD UNLOCKED
-
Boo! :-)
-
first!!!
-
Boo! :-)
oh come on
I was waiting for this moment for days and thought this will never start
vote: SA
-
heyo
-
oh come on
:-P
Vote: LL
Nice to see you again too!
-
Robz, can we have a vote count? To know who's in the game and stuff
-
vote: pps clearly the SK.
-
Also Cuzz and SpaceAnemone are definitely partners. Look at their avatars.
-
Also Cuzz and SpaceAnemone are definitely partners. Look at their avatars.
pretty sure I've had this avatar since M10.
-
Robz, can we have a vote count? To know who's in the game and stuff
Players List
1. JReggie
2. Galzria
3. gkrieg
4. The_Wine_Merchant
5. Calamitas
6. Eevee
7. faust
8. LaLight
9. Awaclus
10. SpaceAnemone
11. 2.71828.....
12.pingpongsam
13. Dylan32
14. RoadRunner
15.iguanaiguana
16. Jimmmmm
17. O
18. AndrewisFTTW
19. Cuzz
20. ashersky
21. JaketheBaseballGod22
22. mcmcsalot
23. sudgy
-
Also Cuzz and SpaceAnemone are definitely partners. Look at their avatars.
pretty sure I've had this avatar since M10.
It's a great avatar. What's the name of that again? There was a point in time where I understood it.
-
Vote Count 1.0
SpaceAnemone (1): LaLight
LaLight (1): SpaceAnemone
pingpongsam (1): J Reggie
Not Voting (20): Galzria, gkrieg, The_Wine_Merchant, Calamitas, Eevee, faust, Awaclus, 2.71828..., pingpongsam, Dylan32, RoadRunner, iguanaiguana, Jimmmm, O, AndrewisFTTW, Cuzz, ashersky, JaketheBasebalGod22, mcmcsalot, sudgy
With 23 alive it takes just 10 to lynch. Day 1 ends on Tuesday, May 23, at 10:00 AM Forum Time.
-
Also Cuzz and SpaceAnemone are definitely partners. Look at their avatars.
pretty sure I've had this avatar since M10.
It's a great avatar. What's the name of that again? There was a point in time where I understood it.
It's the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandelbrot_set (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandelbrot_set)
-
Vote Count 1.0
LaLight (1): SpaceAnemone
pingpongsam (1): J Reggie
Not Voting (21): Galzria, gkrieg, The_Wine_Merchant, Calamitas, Eevee, faust, LaLight, Awaclus, 2.71828..., pingpongsam, Dylan32, RoadRunner, iguanaiguana, Jimmmm, O, AndrewisFTTW, Cuzz, ashersky, JaketheBasebalGod22, mcmcsalot, sudgy
With 23 alive it takes just 10 to lynch. Day 1 ends on Tuesday, May 23, at 10:00 AM Forum Time.
Didn't LL vote me first? Though I do much prefer being "Space" rather than "SA" when I get abbreviated :-)
-
Vote Count 1.0
LaLight (1): SpaceAnemone
pingpongsam (1): J Reggie
Not Voting (21): Galzria, gkrieg, The_Wine_Merchant, Calamitas, Eevee, faust, LaLight, Awaclus, 2.71828..., pingpongsam, Dylan32, RoadRunner, iguanaiguana, Jimmmm, O, AndrewisFTTW, Cuzz, ashersky, JaketheBasebalGod22, mcmcsalot, sudgy
With 23 alive it takes just 10 to lynch. Day 1 ends on Tuesday, May 23, at 10:00 AM Forum Time.
Didn't LL vote me first? Though I do much prefer being "Space" rather than "SA" when I get abbreviated :-)
noted, sorry!
-
Vote Count 1.0
LaLight (1): SpaceAnemone
pingpongsam (1): J Reggie
Not Voting (21): Galzria, gkrieg, The_Wine_Merchant, Calamitas, Eevee, faust, LaLight, Awaclus, 2.71828..., pingpongsam, Dylan32, RoadRunner, iguanaiguana, Jimmmm, O, AndrewisFTTW, Cuzz, ashersky, JaketheBasebalGod22, mcmcsalot, sudgy
With 23 alive it takes just 10 to lynch. Day 1 ends on Tuesday, May 23, at 10:00 AM Forum Time.
Didn't LL vote me first? Though I do much prefer being "Space" rather than "SA" when I get abbreviated :-)
Fixed.
-
jeez, this game is enormous
-
Also Cuzz and SpaceAnemone are definitely partners. Look at their avatars.
pretty sure I've had this avatar since M10.
Ah, M10. Our debut.
vote: galzria
-
vote:Galzria
It's good to be back, baby.
To introduce myself:
I'm O, an f.ds ancient that posted in the good ol' days before you all came and ruined the board.
My playstyle has been praised as being "completely anti-Town" and generally aggressive, annoying, obnoxious and nonsensical. I've compiled some of my references below:
Yeah more (info) the merrier. O is just trolling, as per usual.
I don't like O's tone and he's been getting annoying, Vote: O
He's being purposefully unhelpful and blind to simple logic and reasoning.
VOTE: O
Earlier when I talked about O, I meant that he wouldn't be a terrible loss for the town if we couldn't decide who to vote for.
7. O: O is being O.
he acts overwhelmingly dismissive of the arguments in the hope that if you say something with strong enough language, it becomes true.
.
Unfortunately this is 5 years out, and I was relatively young at the time. So hopefully I'll be able to recreate my amazing forum persona, minus some of the aggressiveness.
-
Fix the topic title, man.
-
Also vote: galzria because I can!
Probably doesn't need to be said but just in case people are confused alerting people to your draft position is dangerous because scum wants to take out people high in the draft.
Ppe 1: well galz is clearly scum.
-
vote:Galzria
It's good to be back, baby.
To introduce myself:
I'm O, an f.ds ancient that posted in the good ol' days before you all came and ruined the board.
My playstyle has been praised as being "completely anti-Town" and generally aggressive, annoying, obnoxious and nonsensical. I've compiled some of my references below:
Yeah more (info) the merrier. O is just trolling, as per usual.
I don't like O's tone and he's been getting annoying, Vote: O
He's being purposefully unhelpful and blind to simple logic and reasoning.
VOTE: O
Earlier when I talked about O, I meant that he wouldn't be a terrible loss for the town if we couldn't decide who to vote for.
7. O: O is being O.
he acts overwhelmingly dismissive of the arguments in the hope that if you say something with strong enough language, it becomes true.
.
Unfortunately this is 5 years out, and I was relatively young at the time. So hopefully I'll be able to recreate my amazing forum persona, minus some of the aggressiveness.
That's right, it's like pingpongsam and awaclus had an unholy mafia love child and it was raised by Morgrim7.
-
Jeez did I see you getting called out as unhelpful by morgrim...I never remember it being that bad
Ppe 1: and pps beat me to it
-
Also vote: galzria because I can!
Probably doesn't need to be said but just in case people are confused alerting people to your draft position is dangerous because scum wants to take out people high in the draft.
Ppe 1: well galz is clearly scum.
It definitely doesn't need to be said, and no one was confused. vote: mcmc
-
So, let's cut to the chase, shall we?
Who is in favor of mass claim?
-
Jeez did I see you getting called out as unhelpful by morgrim...I never remember it being that bad
Ppe 1: and pps beat me to it
haha, I was about to point that out too
-
So, let's cut to the chase, shall we?
Who is in favor of mass claim?
mass claim of what? there's like 1000 data points in this game already
-
So, let's cut to the chase, shall we?
Who is in favor of mass claim?
mass claim of what? there's like 1000 data points in this game already
So, you're a maybe, then?
-
So, let's cut to the chase, shall we?
Who is in favor of mass claim?
mass claim of what? there's like 1000 data points in this game already
So, you're a maybe, then?
I am definitely in favor of massclaiming the person you put in position 3 of question 2 of round 1 of the pre-bidding phase (NOT ROUND 2!!!)
-
I'm not convinced a D1 massclaim is the best idea with lots of pro-town roles and the very simple "i picked a high number and rolled VT" hiding tactic.
Also I'm very convincing matrixing up all the guesses is anti-fun, though I have no idea if it's pro-town.
-
vote:Galzria
It's good to be back, baby.
To introduce myself:
I'm O, an f.ds ancient that posted in the good ol' days before you all came and ruined the board.
My playstyle has been praised as being "completely anti-Town" and generally aggressive, annoying, obnoxious and nonsensical. I've compiled some of my references below:
Yeah more (info) the merrier. O is just trolling, as per usual.
I don't like O's tone and he's been getting annoying, Vote: O
He's being purposefully unhelpful and blind to simple logic and reasoning.
VOTE: O
Earlier when I talked about O, I meant that he wouldn't be a terrible loss for the town if we couldn't decide who to vote for.
7. O: O is being O.
he acts overwhelmingly dismissive of the arguments in the hope that if you say something with strong enough language, it becomes true.
.
Unfortunately this is 5 years out, and I was relatively young at the time. So hopefully I'll be able to recreate my amazing forum persona, minus some of the aggressiveness.
That's right, it's like pingpongsam and awaclus had an unholy mafia love child and it was raised by Morgrim7.
Now I am really looking forward to this game.
Apples
-
The biggest thing we need to worry about is getting a few good wagons going. That being said, vote: LaLight
-
We already have a perfectly good wagon going on someone who's most likely unimportant.
Clearly you're diverting the wagon from your scumbuddy.
-
Also vote: galzria because I can!
Probably doesn't need to be said but just in case people are confused alerting people to your draft position is dangerous because scum wants to take out people high in the draft.
Ppe 1: well galz is clearly scum.
"Helpful" information that doesn't actually help anything.
Vote: mcmc
because non-RVS votes are always better than RVS votes
-
Also vote: galzria because I can!
Probably doesn't need to be said but just in case people are confused alerting people to your draft position is dangerous because scum wants to take out people high in the draft.
Ppe 1: well galz is clearly scum.
You are so helpful! Thank you! vote: mcmc
-
Also vote: galzria because I can!
Probably doesn't need to be said but just in case people are confused alerting people to your draft position is dangerous because scum wants to take out people high in the draft.
Ppe 1: well galz is clearly scum.
"Helpful" information that doesn't actually help anything.
Vote: mcmc
because non-RVS votes are always better than RVS votes
This was my reasoning as well. My mcmc vote was only like 53% RVS.
-
We already have a perfectly good wagon going on someone who's most likely unimportant.
Clearly you're diverting the wagon from your scumbuddy.
Diversion techniques are my specialty. I use them most effectively to create TvT battles that get both of us lynched.
-
Also vote: galzria because I can!
Probably doesn't need to be said but just in case people are confused alerting people to your draft position is dangerous because scum wants to take out people high in the draft.
Ppe 1: well galz is clearly scum.
You are so helpful! Thank you! vote: mcmc
Hey, a real live wagon!
-
The mcmc wagon is BS, he totally does this.
-
Also vote: galzria because I can!
Probably doesn't need to be said but just in case people are confused alerting people to your draft position is dangerous because scum wants to take out people high in the draft.
Ppe 1: well galz is clearly scum.
"Helpful" information that doesn't actually help anything.
Vote: mcmc
because non-RVS votes are always better than RVS votes
This was my reasoning as well. My mcmc vote was only like 53% RVS.
yeah, I missed your post, said what I did, then looked back and realized that two of us independently came up with the same thought.
It is independently verified! mcmc is scum!
-
Something that maybe is helpful and not 100% obvious, though, is to remember that it only takes 10 to lynch on D1 even with 23 players.
-
I'll have you know that I started RVS on this board before it was cool. Actually tho, they tried to lynch me D1 in mafia III for it.
I'm not gonna lie, mutually assured destruction with e looks tempting. But I'm confident that if I laser focus on Galzria that by the time he comes around to post we can both mutually destruct with both the nostalgia and drama that i so crave.
-
I'll have you know that I started RVS on this board before it was cool. Actually tho, they tried to lynch me D1 in mafia III for it.
I'm not gonna lie, mutually assured destruction with e looks tempting. But I'm confident that if I laser focus on Galzria that by the time he comes around to post we can both mutually destruct with both the nostalgia and drama that i so crave.
Tunneling someone who hasn't even posted yet is some damn anti-town behavior. Vote: O
-
Something that maybe is helpful and not 100% obvious, though, is to remember that it only takes 10 to lynch on D1 even with 23 players.
More "helpful" information that doesn't help anyone. You are doing a good job working on not getting your name crossed out on my all too early D1 Voltaire-style PoE list.
-
Also is e used? or is it just 2.17 or something
Also also: Sudgy is pretty clearly town, I don't think someone with a Dango avatar could possibly be mafia.
Also also also: I can absolutely confirm that Cuzz has had that mediocre-fractal avatar for at least 5 years.
-
Also is e used? or is it just 2.17 or something
Also also: Sudgy is pretty clearly town, I don't think someone with a Dango avatar could possibly be mafia.
Also also also: I can absolutely confirm that Cuzz has had that mediocre-fractal avatar for at least 5 years.
you can use e or 2.7 and I will recognize it
-
Gettin' the vibes from e. The scummy ones.
Vote: e
-
Also also also: I can absolutely confirm that Cuzz has had that mediocre-fractal avatar for at least 5 years.
Vote: O Vote: O Vote: O
-
How we doing everybody? It is nice to be back, isn't it?
-
I like O
-
Something that maybe is helpful and not 100% obvious, though, is to remember that it only takes 10 to lynch on D1 even with 23 players.
More "helpful" information that doesn't help anyone. You are doing a good job working on not getting your name crossed out on my all too early D1 Voltaire-style PoE list.
Are you saying this was also obvious to everyone? Or do you really think it's not helpful for everyone to recall that lynching is not by simple majority today?
-
I'll have you know that I started RVS on this board before it was cool. Actually tho, they tried to lynch me D1 in mafia III for it.
I'm not gonna lie, mutually assured destruction with e looks tempting. But I'm confident that if I laser focus on Galzria that by the time he comes around to post we can both mutually destruct with both the nostalgia and drama that i so crave.
Tunneling someone who hasn't even posted yet is some damn anti-town behavior. Vote: O
it's certainly anti-town in that, like almost every other post so far, it does little to find who's mafia.
It's certainly not anti-town in implicating that I'm mafia. I very clearly want my nostalgia fix and Galz will be the first one to tell you that this fake-tunnel was entirely expected.
Also also also: I can absolutely confirm that Cuzz has had that mediocre-fractal avatar for at least 5 years.
Vote: O Vote: O Vote: O
I'd like to clarify that I was only calling the mandelbrot a mediocre fractral, not your avatar mediocre. A mediocre fractal still makes a pretty decent avatar.
-
Something that maybe is helpful and not 100% obvious, though, is to remember that it only takes 10 to lynch on D1 even with 23 players.
More "helpful" information that doesn't help anyone. You are doing a good job working on not getting your name crossed out on my all too early D1 Voltaire-style PoE list.
Sorry to disappoint you, but yeah, this was obvious.. We even talked about it pre-game
Are you saying this was also obvious to everyone? Or do you really think it's not helpful for everyone to recall that lynching is not by simple majority today?
-
Innocent Child? We don't appear to have one? How worried should we be about mafia with a 2-shot vig?
-
Something that maybe is helpful and not 100% obvious, though, is to remember that it only takes 10 to lynch on D1 even with 23 players.
More "helpful" information that doesn't help anyone. You are doing a good job working on not getting your name crossed out on my all too early D1 Voltaire-style PoE list.
Are you saying this was also obvious to everyone? Or do you really think it's not helpful for everyone to recall that lynching is not by simple majority today?
quote fail
Sorry to disappoint you, but yeah, this was obvious.. We even talked about it pre-game
-
I like O
same tbh
this banter is all for the subpurpose of getting my posting volume up so i can secretly scummily lurk for the next few days and have a nice and inflated postcount.
-
I'll have you know that I started RVS on this board before it was cool. Actually tho, they tried to lynch me D1 in mafia III for it.
I'm not gonna lie, mutually assured destruction with e looks tempting. But I'm confident that if I laser focus on Galzria that by the time he comes around to post we can both mutually destruct with both the nostalgia and drama that i so crave.
Tunneling someone who hasn't even posted yet is some damn anti-town behavior. Vote: O
it's certainly anti-town in that, like almost every other post so far, it does little to find who's mafia.
It's certainly not anti-town in implicating that I'm mafia. I very clearly want my nostalgia fix and Galz will be the first one to tell you that this fake-tunnel was entirely expected.
Also also also: I can absolutely confirm that Cuzz has had that mediocre-fractal avatar for at least 5 years.
Vote: O Vote: O Vote: O
I'd like to clarify that I was only calling the mandelbrot a mediocre fractral, not your avatar mediocre. A mediocre fractal still makes a pretty decent avatar.
Vote: O
-
i can accept that
-
Something that maybe is helpful and not 100% obvious, though, is to remember that it only takes 10 to lynch on D1 even with 23 players.
More "helpful" information that doesn't help anyone. You are doing a good job working on not getting your name crossed out on my all too early D1 Voltaire-style PoE list.
Are you saying this was also obvious to everyone? Or do you really think it's not helpful for everyone to recall that lynching is not by simple majority today?
I am saying that it was (or at least should have been) obvious to everyone that today's lynch was not simple majority because it was specifically mentioned in the pre-game talk. That being said, anyone who would have been caught off guard by it could have got some town points for not reading the setup. But alas, no such credit can be given now.
-
I like O
same tbh
this banter is all for the subpurpose of getting my posting volume up so i can secretly scummily lurk for the next few days and have a nice and inflated postcount.
No one makes postcounts these days
-
Something that maybe is helpful and not 100% obvious, though, is to remember that it only takes 10 to lynch on D1 even with 23 players.
More "helpful" information that doesn't help anyone. You are doing a good job working on not getting your name crossed out on my all too early D1 Voltaire-style PoE list.
Are you saying this was also obvious to everyone? Or do you really think it's not helpful for everyone to recall that lynching is not by simple majority today?
I am saying that it was (or at least should have been) obvious to everyone that today's lynch was not simple majority because it was specifically mentioned in the pre-game talk. That being said, anyone who would have been caught off guard by it could have got some town points for not reading the setup. But alas, no such credit can be given now.
Maybe someone doesn't read posts made by players?
-
Also is e used? or is it just 2.17 or something
Both names are acceptable for voting purposes.
-
I like O
same tbh
this banter is all for the subpurpose of getting my posting volume up so i can secretly scummily lurk for the next few days and have a nice and inflated postcount.
Oh don't worry we rarely do those anymore
-
Also is e used? or is it just 2.17 or something
Both names are acceptable for voting purposes.
Accepted f.ds nicknames:
e: 2.71828........ , 2.71828....... , 2.71828...... , 2.71828..... , 2.71828.... , 2.71828... , 2.71828.. , 2.71828. , 2.71828 , 2.7182........ , 2.7182....... , 2.7182...... , 2.7182..... , 2.7182.... , 2.7182... , 2.7182.. , 2.7182. , 2.7182 , 2.718........ , 2.718....... , 2.718...... , 2.718..... , 2.718.... , 2.718... , 2.718.. , 2.718. , 2.718 , 2.71........ , 2.71....... , 2.71...... , 2.71..... , 2.71.... , 2.71... , 2.71.. , 2.71. , 2.71 , 2.7........ , 2.7....... , 2.7...... , 2.7..... , 2.7.... , 2.7... , 2.7.. , 2.7. , 2.7 , 2,71828....... , 2,71828...... , 2,71828..... , 2,71828.... , 2,71828... , 2,71828.. , 2,71828. , 2,71828 , 2,7182,....... , 2,7182,...... , 2,7182,..... , 2,7182,.... , 2,7182,... , 2,7182,.. , 2,7182,. , 2,7182, , 2,7182 , 2,718........ , 2,718....... , 2,718...... , 2,718..... , 2,718.... , 2,718... , 2,718.. , 2,718. , 2,718 , 2,71........ , 2,71....... , 2,71...... , 2,71..... , 2,71.... , 2,71... , 2,71.. , 2,71. , 2,71 , 2,7........ , 2,7....... , 2,7...... , 2,7..... , 2,7.... , 2,7... , 2,7.. , 2,7. , 2,7
-
Something that maybe is helpful and not 100% obvious, though, is to remember that it only takes 10 to lynch on D1 even with 23 players.
More "helpful" information that doesn't help anyone. You are doing a good job working on not getting your name crossed out on my all too early D1 Voltaire-style PoE list.
Are you saying this was also obvious to everyone? Or do you really think it's not helpful for everyone to recall that lynching is not by simple majority today?
I am saying that it was (or at least should have been) obvious to everyone that today's lynch was not simple majority because it was specifically mentioned in the pre-game talk. That being said, anyone who would have been caught off guard by it could have got some town points for not reading the setup. But alas, no such credit can be given now.
Not reading the setup is anti-Town and I have no interest in giving a pass to such people.
-
I like O
same tbh
this banter is all for the subpurpose of getting my posting volume up so i can secretly scummily lurk for the next few days and have a nice and inflated postcount.
Oh don't worry we rarely do those anymore
They were one of my favorite things to do back when I first started playing. Until I realized you can't actually figure out who is scum/town based on a post count.
-
vote: WW, because he is scum, and also hey everyone.
Serious vote: PPS. Doing a weird amount of defending, that one is.
-
vote: WW, because he is scum, and also hey everyone.
Serious vote: PPS. Doing a weird amount of defending, that one is.
explain
-
I like O
same tbh
this banter is all for the subpurpose of getting my posting volume up so i can secretly scummily lurk for the next few days and have a nice and inflated postcount.
Oh don't worry we rarely do those anymore
They were one of my favorite things to do back when I first started playing. Until I realized you can't actually figure out who is scum/town based on a post count.
It doesn't stop people from trying for some reason.
-
I like O
same tbh
this banter is all for the subpurpose of getting my posting volume up so i can secretly scummily lurk for the next few days and have a nice and inflated postcount.
No one makes postcounts these days
foiled again. If they've started trying to lynch people by the amount of actual, helpful content they post I should probably start wagoning myself.
Something that maybe is helpful and not 100% obvious, though, is to remember that it only takes 10 to lynch on D1 even with 23 players.
More "helpful" information that doesn't help anyone. You are doing a good job working on not getting your name crossed out on my all too early D1 Voltaire-style PoE list.
Are you saying this was also obvious to everyone? Or do you really think it's not helpful for everyone to recall that lynching is not by simple majority today?
I am saying that it was (or at least should have been) obvious to everyone that today's lynch was not simple majority because it was specifically mentioned in the pre-game talk. That being said, anyone who would have been caught off guard by it could have got some town points for not reading the setup. But alas, no such credit can be given now.
I can still claim I haven't read the setup if that makes me seem more townlike.
-
I doubt scum cuzz goes really hard at O right away and tries to get him lynched. Huge game, would be dangerous.
-
I like O
same tbh
this banter is all for the subpurpose of getting my posting volume up so i can secretly scummily lurk for the next few days and have a nice and inflated postcount.
Oh don't worry we rarely do those anymore
They were one of my favorite things to do back when I first started playing. Until I realized you can't actually figure out who is scum/town based on a post count.
It doesn't stop people from trying for some reason.
For some reason? To get a free towncred of course
-
vote: WW, because he is scum, and also hey everyone.
Serious vote: PPS. Doing a weird amount of defending, that one is.
explain
gkrieg show your work on this pps vote. what was the weird amount of defending?
-
I doubt scum cuzz goes really hard at O right away and tries to get him lynched. Huge game, would be dangerous.
it's not dangerous if we're both scum and he's bussing me
-
I doubt scum cuzz goes really hard at O right away and tries to get him lynched. Huge game, would be dangerous.
it's not dangerous if we're both scum and he's bussing me
Unvote: O
-
Ahhh, 65 games later, and I can still count on waking up in the morning to find myself driving a nice D1 wagon.
O, Ash, mcmc - I'm flattered that I'm your first vote in such a big game!
For many of you this is my first time playing with you. Would people mind posting preferred nicknames when being addressed/voted? I don't feel like typing The_Wine_Merchant out every time when I imagine TWM will suffice.
Generally I go by Galz.
-
vote: WW, because he is scum, and also hey everyone.
Serious vote: PPS. Doing a weird amount of defending, that one is.
explain
gkrieg show your work on this pps vote. what was the weird amount of defending?
I guess just confirming stuff. Like that O has a generally scummy meta.
-
Ahhh, 65 games later, and I can still count on waking up in the morning to find myself driving a nice D1 wagon.
O, Ash, mcmc - I'm flattered that I'm your first vote in such a big game!
For many of you this is my first time playing with you. Would people mind posting preferred nicknames when being addressed/voted? I don't feel like typing The_Wine_Merchant out every time when I imagine TWM will suffice.
Generally I go by Galz.
For me you can drop the 13, so just gkrieg
-
Ahhh, 65 games later, and I can still count on waking up in the morning to find myself driving a nice D1 wagon.
O, Ash, mcmc - I'm flattered that I'm your first vote in such a big game!
For many of you this is my first time playing with you. Would people mind posting preferred nicknames when being addressed/voted? I don't feel like typing The_Wine_Merchant out every time when I imagine TWM will suffice.
Generally I go by Galz.
Hey! It's really nice to see you! For your and other reference I am the mad guy, whose first game was M85, But I have read every existing game on this site, so I know all of you, but you don't know me hehe. I always dreamt to play with you guys especially with you, Galz.
I go with LL.
-
I don't feel like typing The_Wine_Merchant out every time when I imagine TWM will suffice.
Doesn't really matter to me. TWM is the most common. I have also been called Wine, Whine and Wino. I think Robz would accept any of those?
-
vote: WW, because he is scum, and also hey everyone.
Serious vote: PPS. Doing a weird amount of defending, that one is.
explain
gkrieg show your work on this pps vote. what was the weird amount of defending?
I guess just confirming stuff. Like that O has a generally scummy meta.
How is that a "weird amount of defending?" Also, man, we have the technology to, like, quote stuff and stuff.
Vote: gkrieg
-
I guess just confirming stuff. Like that O has a generally scummy meta.
O's still got it, baby! Five years but it's like riding a bike.
Though I'm actually pretty bad at riding a bike.
-
I don't feel like typing The_Wine_Merchant out every time when I imagine TWM will suffice.
Doesn't really matter to me. TWM is the most common. I have also been called Wine, Whine and Wino. I think Robz would accept any of those?
Those definitely fall under the category of "unambiguous nicknames".
-
Ahhh, 65 games later, and I can still count on waking up in the morning to find myself driving a nice D1 wagon.
O, Ash, mcmc - I'm flattered that I'm your first vote in such a big game!
For many of you this is my first time playing with you. Would people mind posting preferred nicknames when being addressed/voted? I don't feel like typing The_Wine_Merchant out every time when I imagine TWM will suffice.
Generally I go by Galz.
Hey! It's really nice to see you! For your and other reference I am the mad guy, whose first game was M85, But I have read every existing game on this site, so I know all of you, but you don't know me hehe. I always dreamt to play with you guys especially with you, Galz.
I go with LL.
This is the most suspicious thing I've read so far.
-
vote: WW, because he is scum, and also hey everyone.
Serious vote: PPS. Doing a weird amount of defending, that one is.
explain
gkrieg show your work on this pps vote. what was the weird amount of defending?
I guess just confirming stuff. Like that O has a generally scummy meta.
How is that a "weird amount of defending?" Also, man, we have the technology to, like, quote stuff and stuff.
Vote: gkrieg
I mean it isn't that strong of a case, seeing as PPS has like 4 posts.
-
Ahhh, 65 games later, and I can still count on waking up in the morning to find myself driving a nice D1 wagon.
O, Ash, mcmc - I'm flattered that I'm your first vote in such a big game!
For many of you this is my first time playing with you. Would people mind posting preferred nicknames when being addressed/voted? I don't feel like typing The_Wine_Merchant out every time when I imagine TWM will suffice.
Generally I go by Galz.
Hey! It's really nice to see you! For your and other reference I am the mad guy, whose first game was M85, But I have read every existing game on this site, so I know all of you, but you don't know me hehe. I always dreamt to play with you guys especially with you, Galz.
I go with LL.
This is the most suspicious thing I've read so far.
Why? :)
-
The mcmc wagon is BS, he totally does this.
vote:Galzria
It's good to be back, baby.
To introduce myself:
I'm O, an f.ds ancient that posted in the good ol' days before you all came and ruined the board.
My playstyle has been praised as being "completely anti-Town" and generally aggressive, annoying, obnoxious and nonsensical. I've compiled some of my references below:
Yeah more (info) the merrier. O is just trolling, as per usual.
I don't like O's tone and he's been getting annoying, Vote: O
He's being purposefully unhelpful and blind to simple logic and reasoning.
VOTE: O
Earlier when I talked about O, I meant that he wouldn't be a terrible loss for the town if we couldn't decide who to vote for.
7. O: O is being O.
he acts overwhelmingly dismissive of the arguments in the hope that if you say something with strong enough language, it becomes true.
.
Unfortunately this is 5 years out, and I was relatively young at the time. So hopefully I'll be able to recreate my amazing forum persona, minus some of the aggressiveness.
That's right, it's like pingpongsam and awaclus had an unholy mafia love child and it was raised by Morgrim7.
Here you go Cuzz.
-
@LL
probably because it takes forever to actually read these things fully at once.
I would know, I had to reread M1, M3, MVI, and M9 to find quotes where people were shittalking me.
-
Ahhh, 65 games later, and I can still count on waking up in the morning to find myself driving a nice D1 wagon.
O, Ash, mcmc - I'm flattered that I'm your first vote in such a big game!
For many of you this is my first time playing with you. Would people mind posting preferred nicknames when being addressed/voted? I don't feel like typing The_Wine_Merchant out every time when I imagine TWM will suffice.
Generally I go by Galz.
I used to always view your profile instead of going to the mafia game threads. Now it's gkrieg. I go by J Reggie, or JReggie, or JR, or whatever you want to call me really. Just don't call me late to dinner.
-
Ahhh, 65 games later, and I can still count on waking up in the morning to find myself driving a nice D1 wagon.
O, Ash, mcmc - I'm flattered that I'm your first vote in such a big game!
For many of you this is my first time playing with you. Would people mind posting preferred nicknames when being addressed/voted? I don't feel like typing The_Wine_Merchant out every time when I imagine TWM will suffice.
Generally I go by Galz.
Hey! It's really nice to see you! For your and other reference I am the mad guy, whose first game was M85, But I have read every existing game on this site, so I know all of you, but you don't know me hehe. I always dreamt to play with you guys especially with you, Galz.
I go with LL.
This is the most suspicious thing I've read so far.
You must not know LaLight.
-
@LL
probably because it takes forever to actually read these things fully at once.
I would know, I had to reread M1, M3, MVI, and M9 to find quotes where people were shittalking me.
I had.. plaenty of time. A vivid example is when I was lying in hospital for this new year for 2 weeks and internet was shitty as hell, so the best use of it was to load the Mafia Game on one page and read it before after and during sleep
-
Also Cuzz and SpaceAnemone are definitely partners. Look at their avatars.
pretty sure I've had this avatar since M10.
Ah, M10. Our debut.
vote: galzria
ok serious Vote: ashersky for this hit and run
-
Ahhh, 65 games later, and I can still count on waking up in the morning to find myself driving a nice D1 wagon.
O, Ash, mcmc - I'm flattered that I'm your first vote in such a big game!
For many of you this is my first time playing with you. Would people mind posting preferred nicknames when being addressed/voted? I don't feel like typing The_Wine_Merchant out every time when I imagine TWM will suffice.
Generally I go by Galz.
Hey! It's really nice to see you! For your and other reference I am the mad guy, whose first game was M85, But I have read every existing game on this site, so I know all of you, but you don't know me hehe. I always dreamt to play with you guys especially with you, Galz.
I go with LL.
This is the most suspicious thing I've read so far.
You must not know LaLight.
I absolutely do not
-
Ahhh, 65 games later, and I can still count on waking up in the morning to find myself driving a nice D1 wagon.
O, Ash, mcmc - I'm flattered that I'm your first vote in such a big game!
For many of you this is my first time playing with you. Would people mind posting preferred nicknames when being addressed/voted? I don't feel like typing The_Wine_Merchant out every time when I imagine TWM will suffice.
Generally I go by Galz.
Hey! It's really nice to see you! For your and other reference I am the mad guy, whose first game was M85, But I have read every existing game on this site, so I know all of you, but you don't know me hehe. I always dreamt to play with you guys especially with you, Galz.
I go with LL.
This is the most suspicious thing I've read so far.
You must not know LaLight.
I absolutely do not
Nice to meet you!
-
gkrieg, what do you think about pps as SK?
-
Everyone else wondering what they got themselves into?
Vote: PPS
-
Everyone else wondering what they got themselves into?
Vote: PPS
A mafia game
-
Everyone else wondering what they got themselves into?
Vote: PPS
A mafia game
Really?
-
To make reads easier, from this point until an undisclosed later time, I will automatically be scumreading anyone who votes gkrieg and townreading anyone who votes pps.
-
Ahhh, 65 games later, and I can still count on waking up in the morning to find myself driving a nice D1 wagon.
O, Ash, mcmc - I'm flattered that I'm your first vote in such a big game!
For many of you this is my first time playing with you. Would people mind posting preferred nicknames when being addressed/voted? I don't feel like typing The_Wine_Merchant out every time when I imagine TWM will suffice.
Generally I go by Galz.
Hey! It's really nice to see you! For your and other reference I am the mad guy, whose first game was M85, But I have read every existing game on this site, so I know all of you, but you don't know me hehe. I always dreamt to play with you guys especially with you, Galz.
I go with LL.
Vote: LL And I thought I had too much time on my hands.
-
And now off you'll excuse me, I have to go vote IRL. Hopefully not for scum.
-
vote: WW, because he is scum, and also hey everyone.
Serious vote: PPS. Doing a weird amount of defending, that one is.
explain
gkrieg show your work on this pps vote. what was the weird amount of defending?
I guess just confirming stuff. Like that O has a generally scummy meta.
How is that a "weird amount of defending?" Also, man, we have the technology to, like, quote stuff and stuff.
Vote: gkrieg
Sheep vote: gkrieg
-
vote: WW, because he is scum, and also hey everyone.
Serious vote: PPS. Doing a weird amount of defending, that one is.
explain
gkrieg show your work on this pps vote. what was the weird amount of defending?
I guess just confirming stuff. Like that O has a generally scummy meta.
How is that a "weird amount of defending?" Also, man, we have the technology to, like, quote stuff and stuff.
Vote: gkrieg
Sheep vote: gkrieg
Keep up, man, I'm all about this ash wagon now. I can feel it.
-
vote: WW, because he is scum, and also hey everyone.
Serious vote: PPS. Doing a weird amount of defending, that one is.
explain
gkrieg show your work on this pps vote. what was the weird amount of defending?
I guess just confirming stuff. Like that O has a generally scummy meta.
How is that a "weird amount of defending?" Also, man, we have the technology to, like, quote stuff and stuff.
Vote: gkrieg
Sheep vote: gkrieg
Keep up, man, I'm all about this ash wagon now. I can feel it.
I like it, vote: ash
-
SpaceAnemone: 3
Lalight: 13
Cuzz: 21
J Reggie: 3
IguanaIguana: 1
E: 8
Ashersky: 3
O: 11
PPS: 4
Andrew: 1
TWM: 2
Mcmc: 2
Gkrieg: 6
As of page 9.
From this, we can conclude that LaLight, Gkrieg, and e are all scummy for claiming that postcounts "don't really happen anymore"
I had.. plaenty of time. A vivid example is when I was lying in hospital for this new year for 2 weeks and internet was shitty as hell, so the best use of it was to load the Mafia Game on one page and read it before after and during sleep
oh, that's awful :'( I'm glad we could provide at some like form of mild entertainment for you there.
-
Heyooo! It's so cool to see O and Galzria back, both are true legends of f.ds mafia. Galzria was such a killer in his heyday.
I do think mcmc's note about not claiming draft order was useful, it only takes one person to slip to get a dangerous ball rolling, and what's the downside of reminding people?
Vote: Cuzz for hypocrisy, his PSA was hardly any more useful than mcmc's, so his vote on him him seems disingenuous.
We should bring back post counts for this game!
I'll make my own PSA (scum don't read this): I would guess that being lurky will get you lynched here more often than it would in a smaller game, so if you are town, please keep that in mind.
-
Gonna take more to convince me to poke the dragon then just a hit and run.
Also
And now off you'll excuse me, I have to go vote IRL. Hopefully not for scum.
What?
-
O way ahead of me, as usual.
Seriously impressive you read all the games LL, seriously impressive.
-
Heyooo! It's so cool to see O and Galzria back, both are true legends of f.ds mafia. Galzria was such a killer in his heyday.
I do think mcmc's note about not claiming draft order was useful, it only takes one person to slip to get a dangerous ball rolling, and what's the downside of reminding people?
Vote: Cuzz for hypocrisy, his PSA was hardly any more useful than mcmc's, so his vote on him him seems disingenuous.
We should bring back post counts for this game!
I'll make my own PSA (scum don't read this): I would guess that being lurky will get you lynched here more often than it would in a smaller game, so if you are town, please keep that in mind.
Hi Eevee!
-
I don't think I've ever had a scum-read of Eevee, he's my true weakness.
Also maybe Ozle.
Cuzz is "all about that Ash wagon" but did I miss him actually vote for ash..?
-
Also Cuzz and SpaceAnemone are definitely partners. Look at their avatars.
pretty sure I've had this avatar since M10.
Ah, M10. Our debut.
vote: galzria
ok serious Vote: ashersky for this hit and run
oops
-
I was happy with the cuzz' vote on me, it's exactly like the vote I make on other people super early in games. It was a non rvs vote and we are well in the swing of thing with legitimate interactions going on. I give cuzz town points for it even though he voted for a townie.
-
I don't think I've ever had a scum-read of Eevee, he's my true weakness.
Also maybe Ozle.
Cuzz is "all about that Ash wagon" but did I miss him actually vote for ash..?
Also Cuzz and SpaceAnemone are definitely partners. Look at their avatars.
pretty sure I've had this avatar since M10.
Ah, M10. Our debut.
vote: galzria
ok serious Vote: ashersky for this hit and run
But TBH I thought this was ash's only post but it seems from O's count I missed a few
-
i think we have vastly differing opinions of what a "legitimate interaction" consists of, mcmcsalot.
-
This on the other hand is a true hit and run:
Gettin' the vibes from e. The scummy ones.
Vote: e
Can anyone tell me what Andrew's meta is?
-
To make reads easier, from this point until an undisclosed later time, I will automatically be scumreading anyone who votes gkrieg and townreading anyone who votes pps.
Gkrieg voted PPS for "a weird amount of defending" after like, 4 posts. What's your support of both Gkrieg and his read?
-
This on the other hand is a true hit and run:
Gettin' the vibes from e. The scummy ones.
Vote: e
Can anyone tell me what Andrew's meta is?
I would say there's been quite a few hit and runs so far (sadly)
-
I don't think I've ever had a scum-read of Eevee, he's my true weakness.
Also maybe Ozle.
Cuzz is "all about that Ash wagon" but did I miss him actually vote for ash..?
Eevee is also my weakness. He's just to likeable. It's why he destroys me in Survivor.
-
This on the other hand is a true hit and run:
Gettin' the vibes from e. The scummy ones.
Vote: e
Can anyone tell me what Andrew's meta is?
I would say there's been quite a few hit and runs so far (sadly)
Andrew's is unique for for being literally only one post with that post featuring a vote.
-
Innocent Child? We don't appear to have one? How worried should we be about mafia with a 2-shot vig?
chalk another one up in favor of mass claim.
-
I want to tunnel Gkrieg as he's been seemingly the hardest hunting early on, which i think is a scumread.
But he also called out my "generally scummy meta", which is generally indicative of... not much, actually.
I generally find people who put too much meaning into early interaction as scummy, but i think it's actually probably dependent on community.
Either way unvote:Galzria as he's posted more than once now.
-
This on the other hand is a true hit and run:
Gettin' the vibes from e. The scummy ones.
Vote: e
Can anyone tell me what Andrew's meta is?
I would say there's been quite a few hit and runs so far (sadly)
Andrew's is unique for for being literally only one post with that post featuring a vote.
We're also less then 12 hours into the game.
-
This on the other hand is a true hit and run:
Gettin' the vibes from e. The scummy ones.
Vote: e
Can anyone tell me what Andrew's meta is?
I would say there's been quite a few hit and runs so far (sadly)
Andrew's is unique for for being literally only one post with that post featuring a vote.
We're also less then 12 hours into the game.
What does that mean?
-
This on the other hand is a true hit and run:
Gettin' the vibes from e. The scummy ones.
Vote: e
Can anyone tell me what Andrew's meta is?
to absolutely pwn the game as scum.
-
Innocent Child? We don't appear to have one? How worried should we be about mafia with a 2-shot vig?
chalk another one up in favor of mass claim.
how do these massclaims order themselves anyways?
also nobody seems to have mentioned this... IDK if it's supposed to be a scum-tell to discuss roles before agreeing on a mass-claim, but we already have some decent information about what roles people are more or less likely to have based off of the setup.
-
This on the other hand is a true hit and run:
Gettin' the vibes from e. The scummy ones.
Vote: e
Can anyone tell me what Andrew's meta is?
to absolutely pwn the game as scum.
also, to always be scum
-
I want to tunnel Gkrieg as he's been seemingly the hardest hunting early on, which i think is a scumread.
But he also called out my "generally scummy meta", which is generally indicative of... not much, actually.
I generally find people who put too much meaning into early interaction as scummy, but i think it's actually probably dependent on community.
Either way unvote:Galzria as he's posted more than once now.
Tunnel away! I've been on a scum wagon at the end of the day a bunch of times in a row now. I'm determined to keep my streak alive!
-
Hi to you as well, Cuzz! What better way to greet than voting, right?
I don't think I've ever had a scum-read of Eevee, he's my true weakness.
Also maybe Ozle.
Cuzz is "all about that Ash wagon" but did I miss him actually vote for ash..?
Eevee is also my weakness. He's just to likeable. It's why he destroys me in Survivor.
Maybe call it even after S2?
I do enjoy being people's weakness, and being listed together anywhere with Ozle is.. something.
-
It's easier if you just always scumread Eevee. That way he can't come back and get ya.
-
Innocent Child? We don't appear to have one? How worried should we be about mafia with a 2-shot vig?
chalk another one up in favor of mass claim.
Am I in favor of a mass claim? I don't know. Possibly. Maybe a limited use mass claim, some roles might be better than others to claim at this point and some at a later point and some never. Someone else would probably be better at answering that question than me.
-
to make my point more clearly:
vote:LaLight
reasoning:
we have no Innocent child. Investigation Immune and 2-shot Vig are both higher utility for the Scumteam than the town. LaLight is the most likely in my eyes to have the #1 draft slot and claim the #1 role, having read every mafia game.
I'm fully open to arguments that we shouldn't be lynching a likely vig, that LaLight doesn't understand you all very well, or just general scumminess arguments later on.
-
This on the other hand is a true hit and run:
Gettin' the vibes from e. The scummy ones.
Vote: e
Can anyone tell me what Andrew's meta is?
I would say there's been quite a few hit and runs so far (sadly)
Andrew's is unique for for being literally only one post with that post featuring a vote.
We're also less then 12 hours into the game.
What does that mean?
It means that some people have life's and can't post that much. Sometimes you can only post once before you have to go.
-
Innocent Child? We don't appear to have one? How worried should we be about mafia with a 2-shot vig?
chalk another one up in favor of mass claim.
how do these massclaims order themselves anyways?
also nobody seems to have mentioned this... IDK if it's supposed to be a scum-tell to discuss roles before agreeing on a mass-claim, but we already have some decent information about what roles people are more or less likely to have based off of the setup.
Right, we know that we don't have an IC and if we don't have an IC then I think we are pretty likely to have a 2-shot vig. And I think it is somewhat likely that scum is the faction that might have chosen that. Right?
PPE: O mimics my thoughts and makes a good point on it, even if it is completely speculative.
vote: LaLight
-
The fact that we have ~ 10 VTs means that a massclaim is not the best.
-
I always find massclaims to be anti-fun but should probably think a little harder about whether it might actually be optimal for town. D1 scum might not have had too much of a chance to coordinate ideal fakeclaims, especially with a setup this complicated.
-
It's easier if you just always scumread Eevee. That way he can't come back and get ya.
I never get anyone. Just a friendly, towny, all-around stand-up dude, no reason to worry about me.
I'm not in favor of any organized mass-claim, and I doubt it would work because people would simply refuse (or a lot of town lying). If people have roles they feel they should claim, can't they just do it at their own discretion?
PPE-edit:
Forgot to mention I'm town, that too.
-
This on the other hand is a true hit and run:
Gettin' the vibes from e. The scummy ones.
Vote: e
Can anyone tell me what Andrew's meta is?
I would say there's been quite a few hit and runs so far (sadly)
Andrew's is unique for for being literally only one post with that post featuring a vote.
We're also less then 12 hours into the game.
What does that mean?
It means that some people have life's and can't post that much. Sometimes you can only post once before you have to go.
This seems like a weird defense as well.
-
This on the other hand is a true hit and run:
Gettin' the vibes from e. The scummy ones.
Vote: e
Can anyone tell me what Andrew's meta is?
I would say there's been quite a few hit and runs so far (sadly)
Andrew's is unique for for being literally only one post with that post featuring a vote.
We're also less then 12 hours into the game.
What does that mean?
It means that some people have life's and can't post that much. Sometimes you can only post once before you have to go.
You also said "sadly" with regard to there being quite a few hit and runs.
-
Innocent Child? We don't appear to have one? How worried should we be about mafia with a 2-shot vig?
chalk another one up in favor of mass claim.
how do these massclaims order themselves anyways?
also nobody seems to have mentioned this... IDK if it's supposed to be a scum-tell to discuss roles before agreeing on a mass-claim, but we already have some decent information about what roles people are more or less likely to have based off of the setup.
Right, we know that we don't have an IC and if we don't have an IC then I think we are pretty likely to have a 2-shot vig. And I think it is somewhat likely that scum is the faction that might have chosen that. Right?
PPE: O mimics my thoughts and makes a good point on it, even if it is completely speculative.
vote: LaLight
I don't think its about whether Scum or Town want the 2-shot vig, since I think whoever rolled Draft Position One probably claimed it regardless. I think rather it's that the utility of a Vig, or investigation immune, is more in the hands of scum.
I might aswell make the implied softclaim a hardclaim here: I did not roll draft position one, and am not the Vig, IC or investigation immune.
-
It's easier if you just always scumread Eevee. That way he can't come back and get ya.
I'm not in favor of any organized mass-claim, and I doubt it would work because people would simply refuse (or a lot of town lying). If people have roles they feel they should claim, can't they just do it at their own discretion?
I think my point is that there may be some people (myself included, if I were to have a role or not) might not completely know when/whether is the best time to claim.
Basically I completely botched the last time I claimed and if I have a role here am not sure when I should want to claim depending on what it is. Others might feel the same. So I think a discussion, without mandating that anyone claim to give some optimal suggestions, might be worthwhile keeping in mind that some opinions might be tainted by scum.
-
It's a cool line of thinking by O and TWM, but LL having recently read all the games doesn't necessarily make him that much more likely to be able to determine who are the players others hold in the highest regard. Most people have never divulged their thoughts on the matter.
-
It's a cool line of thinking by O and TWM, but LL having recently read all the games doesn't necessarily make him that much more likely to be able to determine who are the players others hold in the highest regard. Most people have never divulged their thoughts on the matter.
Galzria was such a killer in his heyday.
-
::)
-
It's easier if you just always scumread Eevee. That way he can't come back and get ya.
I'm not in favor of any organized mass-claim, and I doubt it would work because people would simply refuse (or a lot of town lying). If people have roles they feel they should claim, can't they just do it at their own discretion?
I think my point is that there may be some people (myself included, if I were to have a role or not) might not completely know when/whether is the best time to claim.
Basically I completely botched the last time I claimed and if I have a role here am not sure when I should want to claim depending on what it is. Others might feel the same. So I think a discussion, without mandating that anyone claim to give some optimal suggestions, might be worthwhile keeping in mind that some opinions might be tainted by scum.
I can see the utility in that. The downside, as demonstrated by O, is that the discussion usually ends up revealing things about the roles of the participants.
-
It's a cool line of thinking by O and TWM, but LL having recently read all the games doesn't necessarily make him that much more likely to be able to determine who are the players others hold in the highest regard. Most people have never divulged their thoughts on the matter.
I agree with this. Just having read games means that he might better know who the actual most formidable team would be, but not what everyone perceives the most formidable team to be.
-
On a more serious note, I don't know how much a perfect read is necessary either, compared to just a frequency check.
Like, we all know I'm the best mafia player around here but you'd have been crazy to vote for me in the drafting poll, because I haven't participated in the past ~90.
And while even I can tell you that, I can't tell you who's been the most common in the last 20-30, while the frequent posters/readers can.
-
::)
Well, I literally made a thread about this question a few years back, so I didn't count myself as one of those mystery people. I have no idea who you consider the best players, despite having played so many games with you.
-
It's a cool line of thinking by O and TWM, but LL having recently read all the games doesn't necessarily make him that much more likely to be able to determine who are the players others hold in the highest regard. Most people have never divulged their thoughts on the matter.
It is relevant because he might have guessed correctly which game was the most fun. That was the high point generator. Not how people view each other. Compared to that, it was pennies.
-
I will once again say that the fact that we have so many VTs makes it so this whole massclaim thing is kinda silly this early on.
The only upside I can see is that it is possible that scum wasn't left with very much.
But I guess most of the slots don't contain things that are that negative utility for scum to know about... Maybe I'll rethink this whole thing.
-
::)
Well, I literally made a thread about this question a few years back, so I didn't count myself as one of those mystery people. I have no idea who you consider the best players, despite having played so many games with you.
But it doesn't matter who I considered the best players, since none of them are still playing. Like my opinions are literally the least predictive of the rest of the groups and probably the most irrelevant.
-
3) Which mafia game was the winner of question 3—this group’s favorite game? Pick just one game, 1 through 99, excluding 98.
3. A correct answer here was worth 100 points--in practice, any player who got this right was automatically advanced to the front of the pack. (At least one player got this right.)
-
It's a cool line of thinking by O and TWM, but LL having recently read all the games doesn't necessarily make him that much more likely to be able to determine who are the players others hold in the highest regard. Most people have never divulged their thoughts on the matter.
It is relevant because he might have guessed correctly which game was the most fun. That was the high point generator. Not how people view each other. Compared to that, it was pennies.
I think there were more people that were newer than older, so I'm not sure the older people had the most votes on the best game.
-
We already have a perfectly good wagon going on someone who's most likely unimportant.
Clearly you're diverting the wagon from your scumbuddy.
Diversion techniques are my specialty. I use them most effectively to create TvT battles that get both of us lynched.
This is true. My first game here I watched you and Space self-destruct and give scum the win.
Vote: gkrieg J Reggie, don't tell me what to do :P
Also, the game I trust gkrieg will be the game it comes back and bites me in the butt.
But really, Vote: Jake because there's gonna be a wagon on him anyway, so I might as well get there early to beat the rush. I hate traffic.
PPE: Quite a few. Got distracted before posting
-
I will once again say that the fact that we have so many VTs makes it so this whole massclaim thing is kinda silly this early on.
I think you are the only one talking about a mass claim. The rest of us (or at least me, maybe I am talking to myself?) are talking about how to go about with other claims that might be worthwhile in isolation.
-
It's a cool line of thinking by O and TWM, but LL having recently read all the games doesn't necessarily make him that much more likely to be able to determine who are the players others hold in the highest regard. Most people have never divulged their thoughts on the matter.
It is relevant because he might have guessed correctly which game was the most fun. That was the high point generator. Not how people view each other. Compared to that, it was pennies.
I think there were more people that were newer than older, so I'm not sure the older people had the most votes on the best game.
Huh?
-
I will once again say that the fact that we have so many VTs makes it so this whole massclaim thing is kinda silly this early on.
The only upside I can see is that it is possible that scum wasn't left with very much.
But I guess most of the slots don't contain things that are that negative utility for scum to know about... Maybe I'll rethink this whole thing.
-
We already have a perfectly good wagon going on someone who's most likely unimportant.
Clearly you're diverting the wagon from your scumbuddy.
Diversion techniques are my specialty. I use them most effectively to create TvT battles that get both of us lynched.
This is true. My first game here I watched you and Space self-destruct and give scum the win.
Vote: gkrieg J Reggie, don't tell me what to do :P
Also, the game I trust gkrieg will be the game it comes back and bites me in the butt.
But really, Vote: Jake because there's gonna be a wagon on him anyway, so I might as well get there early to beat the rush. I hate traffic.
PPE: Quite a few. Got distracted before posting
This is reciprocated by the way. You were on my most formidable team because you're my kryptonite :)
-
I'll have you know that I started RVS on this board before it was cool. Actually tho, they tried to lynch me D1 in mafia III for it.
I'm not gonna lie, mutually assured destruction with e looks tempting. But I'm confident that if I laser focus on Galzria that by the time he comes around to post we can both mutually destruct with both the nostalgia and drama that i so crave.
Vote: Galzria Wagons!
Ppe: half the thread
-
It's a cool line of thinking by O and TWM, but LL having recently read all the games doesn't necessarily make him that much more likely to be able to determine who are the players others hold in the highest regard. Most people have never divulged their thoughts on the matter.
It is relevant because he might have guessed correctly which game was the most fun. That was the high point generator. Not how people view each other. Compared to that, it was pennies.
I think there were more people that were newer than older, so I'm not sure the older people had the most votes on the best game.
Huh?
Since more newer people are around, a more recent game was the likely winner, so the old people probably weren't right on it.
-
oops disconnected and botched reply.
Reply: In my opinion, massclaim = bad. But the discussion might overall be protown independently, and is definitely not just RVS discussion which is inherently nice.
-
I will once again say that the fact that we have so many VTs makes it so this whole massclaim thing is kinda silly this early on.
I think you are the only one talking about a mass claim. The rest of us (or at least me, maybe I am talking to myself?) are talking about how to go about with other claims that might be worthwhile in isolation.
Well then I started thinking that a mass claim is probably better than this claiming in isolation thingy you guys are proposing.
-
It's a cool line of thinking by O and TWM, but LL having recently read all the games doesn't necessarily make him that much more likely to be able to determine who are the players others hold in the highest regard. Most people have never divulged their thoughts on the matter.
It is relevant because he might have guessed correctly which game was the most fun. That was the high point generator. Not how people view each other. Compared to that, it was pennies.
I think there were more people that were newer than older, so I'm not sure the older people had the most votes on the best game.
Huh?
Since more newer people are around, a more recent game was the likely winner, so the old people probably weren't right on it.
But LaLight isn't an old-timer.
-
I will once again say that the fact that we have so many VTs makes it so this whole massclaim thing is kinda silly this early on.
I think you are the only one talking about a mass claim. The rest of us (or at least me, maybe I am talking to myself?) are talking about how to go about with other claims that might be worthwhile in isolation.
pps was definitely talking about a massclaim also
-
I have a feeling this is a game you should really avoid falling behind on.
-
oops disconnected and botched reply.
Reply: In my opinion, massclaim = bad. But the discussion might overall be protown independently, and is definitely not just RVS discussion which is inherently nice.
This O guy might not be town, but he probably is. But he is basically thinking all the things I am! So I like him!
-
oops disconnected and botched reply.
Reply: In my opinion, massclaim = bad. But the discussion might overall be protown independently, and is definitely not just RVS discussion which is inherently nice.
this
-
oops disconnected and botched reply.
Reply: In my opinion, massclaim = bad. But the discussion might overall be protown independently, and is definitely not just RVS discussion which is inherently nice.
This O guy might not be town, but he probably is. But he is basically thinking all the things I am! So I like him!
when you do this and then flip scum it implicates me, you know.
-
Thinking about it more, I don't like a massclaim. I actually won't say why, because I think it would help scum, but ya. No massclaim.
-
oops disconnected and botched reply.
Reply: In my opinion, massclaim = bad. But the discussion might overall be protown independently, and is definitely not just RVS discussion which is inherently nice.
This O guy might not be town, but he probably is. But he is basically thinking all the things I am! So I like him!
when you do this and then flip scum it implicates me, you know.
So it's scummy for TWM than? What if he flips town?
-
oops disconnected and botched reply.
Reply: In my opinion, massclaim = bad. But the discussion might overall be protown independently, and is definitely not just RVS discussion which is inherently nice.
We're clearly not in rvs...we can't even vote for robz, he's the mod!
Also I don't think your speculation helps anyone but scum. For example unless you lied they now know not to shoot you because you didn't draft first. i have more thoughts on the matter but I'm not going to say them because I'm not going to let you bait me into revealing little things about the draft. This is why I advised against this early on.
-
Thinking about it more, I don't like a massclaim. I actually won't say why, because I think it would help scum, but ya. No massclaim.
oy vey.
-
Thinking about it more, I don't like a massclaim. I actually won't say why, because I think it would help scum, but ya. No massclaim.
Gkrieg gets it. unvote
-
I really don't think I like a straight mass claim now. [redacted]
PPE 3. I almost posted my reasoning, but gkrieg makes a good point, so I will withhold my reason. I do think a massclaim on D1 at least would be better for scum than town though.
-
oops disconnected and botched reply.
Reply: In my opinion, massclaim = bad. But the discussion might overall be protown independently, and is definitely not just RVS discussion which is inherently nice.
This O guy might not be town, but he probably is. But he is basically thinking all the things I am! So I like him!
when you do this and then flip scum it implicates me, you know.
Good thing I am not scum.
Unless I am, then my plan is working. Now how to get lynched real quick?
-
Should have changed that to PPE 6, it was 3, I changed my post, then 3 more
-
I have a feeling this is a game you should really avoid falling behind on.
Hahaha anyone wanna start an over under on how many players say "sorry guys I'm like lots of pages behind someone tell me where to place my vote"
-
Thinking about it more, I don't like a massclaim. I actually won't say why, because I think it would help scum, but ya. No massclaim.
Gkrieg gets it. unvote
Get's what everyone else already gets?
vote: mcmcsalot
-
I have a feeling this is a game you should really avoid falling behind on.
Hahaha anyone wanna start an over under on how many players say "sorry guys I'm like lots of pages behind someone tell me where to place my vote"
Over/under is at 24.5
-
Yeah, mass claim this early is always bad in a well-balanced game.
Do we think that alignments are based on draft numbers as well?
-
oops disconnected and botched reply.
Reply: In my opinion, massclaim = bad. But the discussion might overall be protown independently, and is definitely not just RVS discussion which is inherently nice.
We're clearly not in rvs...we can't even vote for robz, he's the mod!
Also I don't think your speculation helps anyone but scum. For example unless you lied they now know not to shoot you because you didn't draft first. i have more thoughts on the matter but I'm not going to say them because I'm not going to let you bait me into revealing little things about the draft. This is why I advised against this early on.
They should have been able to figure that out regardless.
Why would I be able to guess the most fun game? My math skills tells me there's a 1/99 chance of that happening, and that scum would not take that bet.
Unless we're assuming scum is slightly dimwitted and doesn't know that someone who hasn't been in the last 90 mafias is up to date.
-
I think a mass claim here is a bad idea but personally I reallllyyy want one because there so much fun.
-
Good God people. You don't need to take a stand on whether we are going to mass claim. We aren't. You don't need to chime in on it. What we should talk about is what other roles out there might be worth claiming in isolation now or later and how we can best use them to our advantage. Or maybe we shouldn't talk about that. But we can at least talk about talking about it.
Seriously no one has ever suggested mass claiming (except PPS I guess off-offhandedly) so it shouldn't warrant dozens of posts about it and no one should be getting towncred for being against it.
-
Yeah, mass claim this early is always bad in a well-balanced game.
Do we think that alignments are based on draft numbers as well?
No
-
Yeah, mass claim this early is always bad in a well-balanced game.
Do we think that alignments are based on draft numbers as well?
No
I think they could potentially be. Robz said he would reroll if the setup was bad. So mafia, for an extreme example, isn't going to be the last 5 slots. That wouldn't be balanced.
-
I will once again say that the fact that we have so many VTs makes it so this whole massclaim thing is kinda silly this early on.
I think you are the only one talking about a mass claim. The rest of us (or at least me, maybe I am talking to myself?) are talking about how to go about with other claims that might be worthwhile in isolation.
pps was definitely talking about a massclaim also
Not really, I just prompted people to talk about it. What, exactly, do you think I have said about it?
Anybody who knows anything about PPS knows he's never, ever, been in favor of.
-
massclaim is boring. bad. donezo.
Should we try and suss out the Investigation Immune/2Shot vig?
Should we discuss the likely distribution of roles among more/less experienced players?
-
Good God people. You don't need to take a stand on whether we are going to mass claim. We aren't. You don't need to chime in on it. What we should talk about is what other roles out there might be worth claiming in isolation now or later and how we can best use them to our advantage. Or maybe we shouldn't talk about that. But we can at least talk about talking about it.
Seriously no one has ever suggested mass claiming (except PPS I guess off-offhandedly) so it shouldn't warrant dozens of posts about it and no one should be getting towncred for being against it.
These roles should claim immediately: investigation immune, JOAT, godfatherer, Ninja, convert SK to werewolf.
-
Except for those listed by J Reggie, I don't think anyone should be claiming anything.
-
Good God people. You don't need to take a stand on whether we are going to mass claim. We aren't. You don't need to chime in on it. What we should talk about is what other roles out there might be worth claiming in isolation now or later and how we can best use them to our advantage. Or maybe we shouldn't talk about that. But we can at least talk about talking about it.
Seriously no one has ever suggested mass claiming (except PPS I guess off-offhandedly) so it shouldn't warrant dozens of posts about it and no one should be getting towncred for being against it.
These roles should claim immediately: investigation immune, JOAT, godfatherer, Ninja, convert SK to werewolf.
You are so, oh so, very helpful. If I were a vig. I would vig you.
-
Good God people. You don't need to take a stand on whether we are going to mass claim. We aren't. You don't need to chime in on it. What we should talk about is what other roles out there might be worth claiming in isolation now or later and how we can best use them to our advantage. Or maybe we shouldn't talk about that. But we can at least talk about talking about it.
Seriously no one has ever suggested mass claiming (except PPS I guess off-offhandedly) so it shouldn't warrant dozens of posts about it and no one should be getting towncred for being against it.
These roles should claim immediately: investigation immune, JOAT, godfatherer, Ninja, convert SK to werewolf.
You are so, oh so, very helpful. If I were a vig. I would vig you.
Well I wanted to say nobody should claim, but I realized those ones would be very helpful.
-
We could claim our flavor names.
-
We could claim our flavor names.
?
either this is a joke or i learned something very interesting
-
We could claim our flavor names.
Vote: J Reggie
-
We could claim our flavor names.
Ok, now you're just being silly.
-
massclaim is boring. bad. donezo.
Should we try and suss out the Investigation Immune/2Shot vig?
Should we discuss the likely distribution of roles among more/less experienced players?
I think that would be less useful than it's worth. Also an easy way for scum to seem towny without actually doing anything.
-
massclaim is boring. bad. donezo.
Should we try and suss out the Investigation Immune/2Shot vig?
Should we discuss the likely distribution of roles among more/less experienced players?
I think that would be less useful than it's worth. Also an easy way for scum to seem towny without actually doing anything.
I think it would actually be 0% useful.
-
We could claim our flavor names.
?
either this is a joke or i learned something very interesting
Same
-
vote: The_Wine_Merchant
Serious vote.
Is anybody else no longer able to automatically bold on mobile?
-
massclaim is boring. bad. donezo.
Should we try and suss out the Investigation Immune/2Shot vig?
Should we discuss the likely distribution of roles among more/less experienced players?
There is a chance we don't have either of these roles.
-
massclaim is boring. bad. donezo.
Should we try and suss out the Investigation Immune/2Shot vig?
Should we discuss the likely distribution of roles among more/less experienced players?
There is a chance we don't have either of these roles.
A very small chance.
-
massclaim is boring. bad. donezo.
Should we try and suss out the Investigation Immune/2Shot vig?
Should we discuss the likely distribution of roles among more/less experienced players?
I think that would be less useful than it's worth. Also an easy way for scum to seem towny without actually doing anything.
I disagree on both fronts. Massclaims are bad, but overall scum will already be able to suss out a lot of information that town won't: the mafia team has 5 people with different survey results to compare and contrast drafting roles for. Town can try and bridge that information gap. For the second point Scum are likely to try and avoid implanting their own information, which can lead to slips. Why would RVS banter have a better rate of scum not seeming towny. I just don't get it.
-
massclaim is boring. bad. donezo.
Should we try and suss out the Investigation Immune/2Shot vig?
Should we discuss the likely distribution of roles among more/less experienced players?
There is a chance we don't have either of these roles.
A very small chance.
Small, but maybe not very small.
-
massclaim is boring. bad. donezo.
Should we try and suss out the Investigation Immune/2Shot vig?
Should we discuss the likely distribution of roles among more/less experienced players?
I think that would be less useful than it's worth. Also an easy way for scum to seem towny without actually doing anything.
I disagree on both fronts. Massclaims are bad, but overall scum will already be able to suss out a lot of information that town won't: the mafia team has 5 people with different survey results to compare and contrast drafting roles for. Town can try and bridge that information gap. For the second point Scum are likely to try and avoid implanting their own information, which can lead to slips. Why would RVS banter have a better rate of scum not seeming towny. I just don't get it.
It's very easy for scum to talk about things that happened before the game started without seeming scummy, as they weren't scum then.
-
Innocent Child? We don't appear to have one? How worried should we be about mafia with a 2-shot vig?
vote: twm
-
massclaim is boring. bad. donezo.
Should we try and suss out the Investigation Immune/2Shot vig?
Should we discuss the likely distribution of roles among more/less experienced players?
There is a chance we don't have either of these roles.
A very small chance.
Small, but maybe not very small.
agreed. there are plenty of reasons for #1 draft to snag a lower role (especially if town), and there's very little reason to throw a non-#1 draft vote at the most desirable slot.
I'd still put it at 85-15.
-
massclaim is boring. bad. donezo.
Should we try and suss out the Investigation Immune/2Shot vig?
Should we discuss the likely distribution of roles among more/less experienced players?
I think that would be less useful than it's worth. Also an easy way for scum to seem towny without actually doing anything.
I disagree on both fronts. Massclaims are bad, but overall scum will already be able to suss out a lot of information that town won't: the mafia team has 5 people with different survey results to compare and contrast drafting roles for. Town can try and bridge that information gap. For the second point Scum are likely to try and avoid implanting their own information, which can lead to slips. Why would RVS banter have a better rate of scum not seeming towny. I just don't get it.
It's very easy for scum to talk about things that happened before the game started without seeming scummy, as they weren't scum then.
and?
it's very easy for scum to randomly make accusations day 1 without seeming scummy.
At least talking about roles they have a desire to obfuscate their own information they have.
-
Forgot how fast big games can fill pages. Reminds me of that giant Robz game about Gardens.
O is towny; gkrieg, mcmc, TWM all scummy. And Faust, because how has he not posted?
-
Also, town on Cuzz because chicken chicken.
-
Exactly one VT should claim.
-
Vote Count 1.1
LaLight (1): SpaceAnemone,
Galzria (1): iguanaiguana
mcmcsalot (2): 2.71828..., The_Wine_Merchant
2.71828 (1): AndrewisFTTW
pingpongsam (1): gkrieg
ashersky (2): Cuzz, LaLight
gkrieg (1): mcmcsalot
Cuzz (1): Eevee
JaketheBaseballGod22 (1): Dylan32
J Reggie (1): JaketheBaseballGod22
The_Wine_Merchant (2): J Reggie, ashersky
Not Voting (9): Galzria, Calamitas, faust, Awaclus, pingpongsam, RoadRunner, Jimmmm, O, sudgy,
With 23 alive it takes just 10 to lynch. Day 1 ends on Tuesday, May 23, at 10:00 AM Forum Time.
-
I don't think I'm gonna read all this. I also think that posting a whole bunch is very scummy.
-
I reserve the right to vote for ash at any time. Right now you're safe though.
-
Just your standard votecount with 11 people receiving votes.
Exactly one VT should claim.
Whyy?
-
Vote Count 1.1
LaLight (1): SpaceAnemone,
Galzria (1): iguanaiguana
mcmcsalot (2): 2.71828..., The_Wine_Merchant
2.71828 (1): AndrewisFTTW
pingpongsam (1): gkrieg
ashersky (2): Cuzz, LaLight
gkrieg (1): mcmcsalot
Cuzz (1): Eevee
JaketheBaseballGod22 (1): Dylan32
J Reggie (1): JaketheBaseballGod22
The_Wine_Merchant (2): J Reggie, ashersky
Not Voting (9): Galzria, Calamitas, faust, Awaclus, pingpongsam, RoadRunner, Jimmmm, O, sudgy,
With 23 alive it takes just 10 to lynch. Day 1 ends on Tuesday, May 23, at 10:00 AM Forum Time.
That's really messed up.
-
I don't think I'm gonna read all this. I also think that posting a whole bunch is very scummy.
FOS: RR. Scum Is less likely to want to read the whole thread because they have fewer real reads to make.
-
Note that the following votes did not count. They are in the wrong format:
vote:Galzria
Either way unvote:Galzria as he's posted more than once now.
to make my point more clearly:
vote:LaLight
-
This game is really huge.
In regard to the game, I don't like the extent to which TWM is talking about vigs here.
-
I don't think I'm gonna read all this. I also think that posting a whole bunch is very scummy.
FOS: RR. Scum Is less likely to want to read the whole thread because they have fewer real reads to make.
I only need to make 6 reads.
-
alright, lemme practice:
Vote: Roadrunner7671
I don't think I'm gonna read all this. I also think that posting a whole bunch is very scummy.
This is not pro-town, but more importantly to me extremely anti-fun. I want it out. Out!
This is my first super serious wagon that I'd be happy running into a lynch. Though my point about LaLight still stands.
-
Innocent Child? We don't appear to have one? How worried should we be about mafia with a 2-shot vig?
vote: twm
Sheep vote:twm
-
It isn't scummy from RR, it is just silly.
-
I don't think I'm gonna read all this. I also think that posting a whole bunch is very scummy.
FOS: RR. Scum Is less likely to want to read the whole thread because they have fewer real reads to make.
I only need to make 6 reads.
Of course, because you've never been wrong on a scum read, ever.
-
I don't think I'm gonna read all this. I also think that posting a whole bunch is very scummy.
FOS: RR. Scum Is less likely to want to read the whole thread because they have fewer real reads to make.
I only need to make 6 reads.
This is trash. Also O is super town and I am happy to sheep. Vote: Roadrunner
-
Innocent Child? We don't appear to have one? How worried should we be about mafia with a 2-shot vig?
vote: twm
Sheep vote:twm
This vote also does not count. Wrong formatting.
-
Innocent Child? We don't appear to have one? How worried should we be about mafia with a 2-shot vig?
vote: twm
Sheep vote:twm
We just talked about this.
-
Innocent Child? We don't appear to have one? How worried should we be about mafia with a 2-shot vig?
vote: twm
Sheep vote:twm
Wrong format, yo.
-
It isn't scummy from RR, it is just silly.
its perhaps not scummy (i think it is), but it definitely is anti-town.
-
I should just save that quote from Robz and post it every time someone votes incorrectly.
-
I don't think I'm gonna read all this. I also think that posting a whole bunch is very scummy.
FOS: RR. Scum Is less likely to want to read the whole thread because they have fewer real reads to make.
I only need to make 6 reads.
You may have just claimed something.
-
It isn't scummy from RR, it is just silly.
its perhaps not scummy (i think it is), but it definitely is anti-town.
Anti-town could possibly be RR's nickname sometimes. He could certainly do more to be pro-town.
-
Innocent Child? We don't appear to have one? How worried should we be about mafia with a 2-shot vig?
vote: twm
Sheep vote:twm
This vote also does not count. Wrong formatting.
vote: twm real stickler about that space jeez
-
I don't think RR chooses jailkeeper as town.
-
Innocent Child? We don't appear to have one? How worried should we be about mafia with a 2-shot vig?
vote: twm
Sheep vote:twm
This vote also does not count. Wrong formatting.
vote: twm real stickler about that space jeez
Probably because doing vote counts with a search would be a nightmare otherwise.
-
yea but unlike me, he's anti-fun aswell.
you gotta be at least pro-fun if you're anti-Town.
Also whats with everyone with the town reads on me? It's unnerving and not what im used to at all.
-
I don't think RR chooses jailkeeper as town.
What the hell?
-
I don't think I'm gonna read all this. I also think that posting a whole bunch is very scummy.
FOS: RR. Scum Is less likely to want to read the whole thread because they have fewer real reads to make.
I only need to make 6 reads.
SK slip? How do you know the covert things didn't happen?
-
It isn't scummy from RR, it is just silly.
its perhaps not scummy (i think it is), but it definitely is anti-town.
I don't think it is quite scummy, literally for no other reason than RR consistently gets mislynched for saying things that are only anti-town as opposed to scummy.
PPE a bunch
-
I don't think RR chooses jailkeeper as town.
What the hell?
It's possible he didn't read the setup. But he's claiming there are only 6 scum.
And I didn't even think about converting SK to VT. So there's no way he can know there are 6 scum without being scum himself.
-
It isn't scummy from RR, it is just silly.
its perhaps not scummy (i think it is), but it definitely is anti-town.
I don't think it is quite scummy, literally for no other reason than RR consistently gets mislynched for saying things that are only anti-town as opposed to scummy.
PPE a bunch
I am 100% behind lynching anti-Town play D1.
-
Hey so I highest doubt we are going to lynch someone based on the following:
1) the roles they think are strong
2) the roles they think have or haven't been taken
3) the possibility that they are high or low in the draft order (okay I can see a little reason to lynch here but it would be more of a claim draft position instead of role when you hit l-1/2 ect.)
So we should stop talking about those things and scumhunt.
Ppe:5
-
I don't think RR chooses jailkeeper as town.
What the hell?
It's possible he didn't read the setup. But he's claiming there are only 6 scum.
And I didn't even think about converting SK to VT. So there's no way he can know there are 6 scum without being scum himself.
meh, he could also just not be thinking that hard and assuming 6 scum by default.
-
Hey so I highest doubt we are going to lynch someone based on the following:
1) the roles they think are strong
2) the roles they think have or haven't been taken
3) the possibility that they are high or low in the draft order (okay I can see a little reason to lynch here but it would be more of a claim draft position instead of role when you hit l-1/2 ect.)
So we should stop talking about those things and scumhunt.
Ppe:5
I think we were done talking about those things until you brought it up again.
-
Hey so I highest doubt we are going to lynch someone based on the following:
1) the roles they think are strong
2) the roles they think have or haven't been taken
3) the possibility that they are high or low in the draft order (okay I can see a little reason to lynch here but it would be more of a claim draft position instead of role when you hit l-1/2 ect.)
So we should stop talking about those things and scumhunt.
Ppe:5
boo. D1 discussion has utility beyond the D1 lynch.
-
mcmc do some scumhunting and give us your top scumreads right now.
-
Hey so I highest doubt we are going to lynch someone based on the following:
1) the roles they think are strong
2) the roles they think have or haven't been taken
3) the possibility that they are high or low in the draft order (okay I can see a little reason to lynch here but it would be more of a claim draft position instead of role when you hit l-1/2 ect.)
So we should stop talking about those things and scumhunt.
Ppe:5
I think we were done talking about those things until you brought it up again.
Are you kidding me...
I don't think RR chooses jailkeeper as town.
That's 7 posts befor mine.
-
Let's random lynch the first 10 to get this game to a manageable size.
Not really.
Except maybe.
-
Hey so I highest doubt we are going to lynch someone based on the following:
1) the roles they think are strong
2) the roles they think have or haven't been taken
3) the possibility that they are high or low in the draft order (okay I can see a little reason to lynch here but it would be more of a claim draft position instead of role when you hit l-1/2 ect.)
So we should stop talking about those things and scumhunt.
Ppe:5
I think we were done talking about those things until you brought it up again.
Are you kidding me...
I don't think RR chooses jailkeeper as town.
That's 7 posts befor mine.
I was saying that because it was one of the only ways he could be sure of the number of scum as town. But I was wrong even then. So nevermind.
-
what even is day 1 "scumhunting"
is it you all pretending that him saying "i only need 6" reads is a scumslip because there could be a 5-2 split instead of 5-1?
because that's some unhelpful crap that runs in circles.
I guess I'm just not seeing this amazingly productive "scumhunting" yall keep talking about that somehow more effective than the interesting role/draft discussions.
-
Let's random lynch the first 10 to get this game to a manageable size.
Not really.
Except maybe.
uh, that is like LYLO then...
-
what even is day 1 "scumhunting"
is it you all pretending that him saying "i only need 6" reads is a scumslip because there could be a 5-2 split instead of 5-1?
because that's some unhelpful crap that runs in circles.
I guess I'm just not seeing this amazingly productive "scumhunting" yall keep talking about that somehow more effective than the interesting role/draft discussions.
It could also be 5-0. Or 5-survivor.
-
mcmc do some scumhunting and give us your top scumreads right now.
Someone mentioned Voltaire style early game poe's I think that's the better way to scumhunt this early in a game this big otherwise it's a lot to handle. So sorry not a lot of scumreads but town on galz/ash/cuzz/2.7/O
-
what even is day 1 "scumhunting"
is it you all pretending that him saying "i only need 6" reads is a scumslip because there could be a 5-2 split instead of 5-1?
because that's some unhelpful crap that runs in circles.
I guess I'm just not seeing this amazingly productive "scumhunting" yall keep talking about that somehow more effective than the interesting role/draft discussions.
Sorry, I'm just overly attentive for scumslips D1.
-
Actually, someone said survivor earlier. Breadcrumb?
-
Let's random lynch the first 10 to get this game to a manageable size.
Not really.
Except maybe.
There could be up to 4 NKs. Game could be at a reasonable size with town in awful shape by D3 or so. We should be more cautious than one might think.
ppe lots
-
And for the love of all we must lynch the survivor, if they claim. Every game ever stands as proof.
-
Actually, someone said survivor earlier. Breadcrumb?
ughhghghh
-
What is a poe?
-
to make my point more clearly:
vote:LaLight
reasoning:
we have no Innocent child. Investigation Immune and 2-shot Vig are both higher utility for the Scumteam than the town. LaLight is the most likely in my eyes to have the #1 draft slot and claim the #1 role, having read every mafia game.
I'm fully open to arguments that we shouldn't be lynching a likely vig, that LaLight doesn't understand you all very well, or just general scumminess arguments later on.
So your argument is that if I would be #1 to choose a role I should've chosen IC at all costs? I don't think this argument is legit
-
to make my point more clearly:
vote:LaLight
reasoning:
we have no Innocent child. Investigation Immune and 2-shot Vig are both higher utility for the Scumteam than the town. LaLight is the most likely in my eyes to have the #1 draft slot and claim the #1 role, having read every mafia game.
I'm fully open to arguments that we shouldn't be lynching a likely vig, that LaLight doesn't understand you all very well, or just general scumminess arguments later on.
So your argument is that if I would be #1 to choose a role I should've chosen IC at all costs? I don't think this argument is legit
I don't think that's exactly O's point
-
What is a poe?
Process of elimination
-
to make my point more clearly:
vote:LaLight
reasoning:
we have no Innocent child. Investigation Immune and 2-shot Vig are both higher utility for the Scumteam than the town. LaLight is the most likely in my eyes to have the #1 draft slot and claim the #1 role, having read every mafia game.
I'm fully open to arguments that we shouldn't be lynching a likely vig, that LaLight doesn't understand you all very well, or just general scumminess arguments later on.
So your argument is that if I would be #1 to choose a role I should've chosen IC at all costs? I don't think this argument is legit
I don't think that's exactly O's point
I don't get why i am more likely to bid on #1 box actually
-
What is a poe?
Process of Elimination
-
Oh and this game is really unmanageable. Though quickly skipping over the pages I am still cool where my vote is
-
I'm feeling townie on Cuzz
-
Absolutely not. I think both town and scum would pick 2-shot vig. I just think both of those roles are more utility to scum than town.
The #1 box is both the strongest, and listed first! Do you deny your human nature? :P
-
vote: The_Wine_Merchant
Serious vote.
Is anybody else no longer able to automatically bold on mobile?
Not OMGUSing. But when people have to specify if it is a serious vote, that is suspicious. Why would anyone think this wasn't a serious vote?
-
vote: The_Wine_Merchant
Serious vote.
Is anybody else no longer able to automatically bold on mobile?
Not OMGUSing. But when people have to specify if it is a serious vote, that is suspicious. Why would anyone think this wasn't a serious vote?
RVS. Or if they're scum.
-
Three votes on me. Don't know why.
-
Three votes on me. Don't know why.
Because you're scum.
-
vote: The_Wine_Merchant
Serious vote.
Is anybody else no longer able to automatically bold on mobile?
Not OMGUSing. But when people have to specify if it is a serious vote, that is suspicious. Why would anyone think this wasn't a serious vote?
Doesn't the same logic apply to saying not OMGUSing that wasn't suspicious but you hope people think it is and are using poor logic, scummy all around.
-
Three votes on me. Don't know why.
I don't agree that gkrieg is wholly scummy but it is hard to argue with ash's vote on TWM, no?
-
Three votes on me. Don't know why.
Because you're scum.
Awaclus changeg nickname and avatar? Oo
-
Three votes on me. Don't know why.
Because you're scum.
False. And what I think you meant to say was that you (and two others) find me scummy. Quite the difference.
Is J Reggie usually this obstinate and difficult?
-
vote: The_Wine_Merchant
Serious vote.
Is anybody else no longer able to automatically bold on mobile?
Not OMGUSing. But when people have to specify if it is a serious vote, that is suspicious. Why would anyone think this wasn't a serious vote?
Doesn't the same logic apply to saying not OMGUSing that wasn't suspicious but you hope people think it is and are using poor logic, scummy all around.
I am not sure what your sentence said. Could you rephrase?
-
Also, I had previously said I would be basing my reads off of something superficial. That's done.
-
Three votes on me. Don't know why.
Because you're scum.
False. And what I think you meant to say was that you (and two others) find me scummy. Quite the difference.
Is J Reggie usually this obstinate and difficult?
Not really
-
And Goddamn, why is scrolling not working?
-
Three votes on me. Don't know why.
I don't agree that gkrieg is wholly scummy but it is hard to argue with ash's vote on TWM, no?
Innocent Child? We don't appear to have one? How worried should we be about mafia with a 2-shot vig?
vote: twm
This vote? You are right. I can't argue with it. There is nothing there.
-
vote: The_Wine_Merchant
Serious vote.
Is anybody else no longer able to automatically bold on mobile?
Not OMGUSing. But when people have to specify if it is a serious vote, that is suspicious. Why would anyone think this wasn't a serious vote?
Doesn't the same logic apply to saying not OMGUSing that wasn't suspicious but you hope people think it is and are using poor logic, scummy all around.
I am not sure what your sentence said. Could you rephrase?
You said not omgusing but why have to specify a serious vote. I am saying why have to specify you are not omgusing. Also I don't think specifying a vote is serious is suspicious.
-
vote: The_Wine_Merchant
Serious vote.
Is anybody else no longer able to automatically bold on mobile?
Not OMGUSing. But when people have to specify if it is a serious vote, that is suspicious. Why would anyone think this wasn't a serious vote?
Doesn't the same logic apply to saying not OMGUSing that wasn't suspicious but you hope people think it is and are using poor logic, scummy all around.
I am not sure what your sentence said. Could you rephrase?
You said not omgusing but why have to specify a serious vote. I am saying why have to specify you are not omgusing. Also I don't think specifying a vote is serious is suspicious.
Gotcha. I mean, I am not voting for J Reggie even though I want to because I only have one vote and want to keep it where it is. So I am not going to OMGUS him.
-
Still haven't seen Awaclus, Andrew, or faust. That's 3 major disturbances to the force that haven't registered yet.
-
vote: The_Wine_Merchant
Serious vote.
Is anybody else no longer able to automatically bold on mobile?
Not OMGUSing. But when people have to specify if it is a serious vote, that is suspicious. Why would anyone think this wasn't a serious vote?
Doesn't the same logic apply to saying not OMGUSing that wasn't suspicious but you hope people think it is and are using poor logic, scummy all around.
I am not sure what your sentence said. Could you rephrase?
You said not omgusing but why have to specify a serious vote. I am saying why have to specify you are not omgusing. Also I don't think specifying a vote is serious is suspicious.
Gotcha. I mean, I am not voting for J Reggie even though I want to because I only have one vote and want to keep it where it is. So I am not going to OMGUS him.
the entirety of this conversation is so circular and useless that I am fully willing to lynch anyone that continues it.
-
Still haven't seen Awaclus, Andrew, or faust. That's 3 major disturbances to the force that haven't registered yet.
Andrew showed up just to vote e.
iguana also has been essentially absent.
-
Sudgy and Jimmmmm are in the game
-
Sudgy and Jimmmmm are in the game
I thought I saw a sudgy but good call on Logan.
-
Sudgy and Jimmmmm are in the game
But are not disturbances in the force. Whatever that is.
-
Wine Merchant, how many games have you played?
-
Wine Merchant, how many games have you played?
This will be my fifth. Three are completed M91, M96 and NM10, one is still ongoing.
-
Sudgy and Jimmmmm are in the game
But are not disturbances in the force. Whatever that is.
Jimmmm will be felt. Sudgy? When was the last time i saw Ms Komen in a Mafia game?
-
Ok I skimmed. I like Vote: Ash for third party hunting.
-
Is that a Wagons! ?
-
And for the love of all we must lynch the survivor, if they claim. Every game ever stands as proof.
This
-
Ash, no plan? Or are you waiting for D3
-
Ok I skimmed. I like Vote: Ash for third party hunting.
I didn't get that from what ash has done. I think he's just been helpful.
-
Ok I skimmed. I like Vote: Ash for third party hunting.
I didn't get that from what ash has done. I think he's just been helpful.
I agree. There's a difference between hunting and pointing out a potential slip.
-
Vote Count 1.3
LaLight (1): SpaceAnemone,
mcmcsalot (2): 2.71828..., The_Wine_Merchant
2.71828 (1): AndrewisFTTW
pingpongsam (1): gkrieg
ashersky (2): LaLight, iguanaiguana
Cuzz (1): Eevee
JaketheBaseballGod22 (1): Dylan32
J Reggie (1): JaketheBaseballGod22
The_Wine_Merchant (3): J Reggie, ashersky, mcmcsalot
RoadRunner (2): O, Cuzz
Not Voting (8.): Galzria, Calamitas, faust, Awaclus, pingpongsam, RoadRunner, Jimmmm, sudgy,
With 23 alive it takes just 10 to lynch. Day 1 ends on Tuesday, May 23, at 10:00 AM Forum Time.
-
Vote: TWM. I'd rather my vote be somewhere potentially useful.
-
Not reading a bunch of fluff might be anti fun, and it could even be anti town. My point is that posting a lot of stuff, regardless of what that stuff is, is scummy because gumming up the thread is an easy tactic to use here, and it's fairly effective.
-
Vote: TWM. I'd rather my vote be somewhere potentially useful.
Yay another vote without any substantial or even insignificant explanation for a vote.
And I am basically at five because this type of situation is basically votebait for Awaclus.
-
Vote: TWM. I'd rather my vote be somewhere potentially useful.
Yay another vote without any substantial or even insignificant explanation for a vote.
And I am basically at five because this type of situation is basically votebait for Awaclus.
You are also the closest thing I have to a scumread right now, anyway. Should have made that clear.
-
To summarize the votes on me:
vote: The_Wine_Merchant
Serious vote.
Is anybody else no longer able to automatically bold on mobile?
Innocent Child? We don't appear to have one? How worried should we be about mafia with a 2-shot vig?
vote: twm
Innocent Child? We don't appear to have one? How worried should we be about mafia with a 2-shot vig?
vote: twm
Sheep vote:twm
Vote: TWM. I'd rather my vote be somewhere potentially useful.
-
Vote: TWM. I'd rather my vote be somewhere potentially useful.
Yay another vote without any substantial or even insignificant explanation for a vote.
And I am basically at five because this type of situation is basically votebait for Awaclus.
You are also the closest thing I have to a scumread right now, anyway. Should have made that clear.
Good thing for you I have done soooo many scummy things then, right?
-
Post #304
oops disconnected and botched reply.
Reply: In my opinion, massclaim = bad. But the discussion might overall be protown independently, and is definitely not just RVS discussion which is inherently nice.
This O guy might not be town, but he probably is. But he is basically thinking all the things I am! So I like him!
Post #321
Good God people. You don't need to take a stand on whether we are going to mass claim. We aren't. You don't need to chime in on it. What we should talk about is what other roles out there might be worth claiming in isolation now or later and how we can best use them to our advantage. Or maybe we shouldn't talk about that. But we can at least talk about talking about it.
Seriously no one has ever suggested mass claiming (except PPS I guess off-offhandedly) so it shouldn't warrant dozens of posts about it and no one should be getting towncred for being against it.
Somewhere in the space of 17 posts TWM went from agreeing with and townreading someone based on their stand on a massclaim to denouncing the entire conversation. That kind of flip seems too manufactured to be genuine from town.
-
This seems like scummy TWM, which means that he is town. Just like look at his newbie game. He has a CRAZY different tone when he is scum compared to town.
-
Not reading a bunch of fluff might be anti fun, and it could even be anti town. My point is that posting a lot of stuff, regardless of what that stuff is, is scummy because gumming up the thread is an easy tactic to use here, and it's fairly effective.
This is so empirically anti-town I want us to lynch RR now.
-
Not reading a bunch of fluff might be anti fun, and it could even be anti town. My point is that posting a lot of stuff, regardless of what that stuff is, is scummy because gumming up the thread is an easy tactic to use here, and it's fairly effective.
This is so empirically anti-town I want us to lynch RR now.
You will hit an anti-town player, but I don't think you'll be hitting scum.
-
Not reading a bunch of fluff might be anti fun, and it could even be anti town. My point is that posting a lot of stuff, regardless of what that stuff is, is scummy because gumming up the thread is an easy tactic to use here, and it's fairly effective.
I think you can probably get away with not reading everything D1, but you can bet that what you post on D1 will be (or should be) referenced back to on say D6.
Basically, I disagree that a large number of posts=gumming up the thread
-
My post wasn't in response to O alone, but to the half dozen to a dozen people who were all saying the same things. And if you actually look at my post, I still agree with O and never denounced him. I think a discussion about roles could be a good thing.
Dylan, your read is the one that looks manufactured to conveniently be part of the largest wagon.
-
Good God people. You don't need to take a stand on whether we are going to mass claim. We aren't. You don't need to chime in on it. What we should talk about is what other roles out there might be worth claiming in isolation now or later and how we can best use them to our advantage. Or maybe we shouldn't talk about that. But we can at least talk about talking about it.
Seriously no one has ever suggested mass claiming (except PPS I guess off-offhandedly) so it shouldn't warrant dozens of posts about it and no one should be getting towncred for being against it.
These roles should claim immediately: investigation immune, JOAT, godfatherer, Ninja, convert SK to werewolf.
You are so, oh so, very helpful. If I were a vig. I would vig you.
In the words of O, this is at least anti-fun.
PPE 4
-
I agree with e. I think that there won't be that many people left later on, and ISOing people (just reading the posts of one person) is just as easy to do with 23 people as it is with 9 people.
-
Good God people. You don't need to take a stand on whether we are going to mass claim. We aren't. You don't need to chime in on it. What we should talk about is what other roles out there might be worth claiming in isolation now or later and how we can best use them to our advantage. Or maybe we shouldn't talk about that. But we can at least talk about talking about it.
Seriously no one has ever suggested mass claiming (except PPS I guess off-offhandedly) so it shouldn't warrant dozens of posts about it and no one should be getting towncred for being against it.
These roles should claim immediately: investigation immune, JOAT, godfatherer, Ninja, convert SK to werewolf.
You are so, oh so, very helpful. If I were a vig. I would vig you.
In the words of O, this is at least anti-fun.
PPE 4
It was meant to be said in fun, at least the last part. Sorry if I offended.
-
Post #304
oops disconnected and botched reply.
Reply: In my opinion, massclaim = bad. But the discussion might overall be protown independently, and is definitely not just RVS discussion which is inherently nice.
This O guy might not be town, but he probably is. But he is basically thinking all the things I am! So I like him!
Post #321
Good God people. You don't need to take a stand on whether we are going to mass claim. We aren't. You don't need to chime in on it. What we should talk about is what other roles out there might be worth claiming in isolation now or later and how we can best use them to our advantage. Or maybe we shouldn't talk about that. But we can at least talk about talking about it.
Seriously no one has ever suggested mass claiming (except PPS I guess off-offhandedly) so it shouldn't warrant dozens of posts about it and no one should be getting towncred for being against it.
Somewhere in the space of 17 posts TWM went from agreeing with and townreading someone based on their stand on a massclaim to denouncing the entire conversation. That kind of flip seems too manufactured to be genuine from town.
These flips are exactly what I expect from town. Scum will be more interested in creating a consistent profile
-
gkrieg is making sense, and being helpful.
I don't like lynching TWM.
-
Not reading a bunch of fluff might be anti fun, and it could even be anti town. My point is that posting a lot of stuff, regardless of what that stuff is, is scummy because gumming up the thread is an easy tactic to use here, and it's fairly effective.
This is so empirically anti-town I want us to lynch RR now.
You will hit an anti-town player, but I don't think you'll be hitting scum.
It's D1 and we're not likely going to lynch scum anyway. Lynching confirmed anti-town is worlds better than lynching a pro-town townie who just happened to get a wagon on them for nebulous "scumminess"
-
Not reading a bunch of fluff might be anti fun, and it could even be anti town. My point is that posting a lot of stuff, regardless of what that stuff is, is scummy because gumming up the thread is an easy tactic to use here, and it's fairly effective.
This is so empirically anti-town I want us to lynch RR now.
You will hit an anti-town player, but I don't think you'll be hitting scum.
It's D1 and we're not likely going to lynch scum anyway. Lynching confirmed anti-town is worlds better than lynching a pro-town townie who just happened to get a wagon on them for nebulous "scumminess"
Scummy ^^
-
This seems like scummy TWM, which means that he is town. Just like look at his newbie game. He has a CRAZY different tone when he is scum compared to town.
Everyone brings up newbie mafia twm what about the game me and him were mafia together. I think this looks a hell of a lot like scum twm.
-
gkrieg is making sense, and being helpful.
I don't like lynching TWM.
How am I being helpful?
-
Not reading a bunch of fluff might be anti fun, and it could even be anti town. My point is that posting a lot of stuff, regardless of what that stuff is, is scummy because gumming up the thread is an easy tactic to use here, and it's fairly effective.
This is so empirically anti-town I want us to lynch RR now.
You will hit an anti-town player, but I don't think you'll be hitting scum.
It's D1 and we're not likely going to lynch scum anyway. Lynching confirmed anti-town is worlds better than lynching a pro-town townie who just happened to get a wagon on them for nebulous "scumminess"
Towny^^
-
This seems like scummy TWM, which means that he is town. Just like look at his newbie game. He has a CRAZY different tone when he is scum compared to town.
Everyone brings up newbie mafia twm what about the game me and him were mafia together. I think this looks a hell of a lot like scum twm.
How does it look like scum TWM?
-
Not reading a bunch of fluff might be anti fun, and it could even be anti town. My point is that posting a lot of stuff, regardless of what that stuff is, is scummy because gumming up the thread is an easy tactic to use here, and it's fairly effective.
This is so empirically anti-town I want us to lynch RR now.
I would be down for that, especially because it's not outright anti town like really early roadrunner, this is anti-town that looks towny which is my experience with scum roadrunner.
-
Not reading a bunch of fluff might be anti fun, and it could even be anti town. My point is that posting a lot of stuff, regardless of what that stuff is, is scummy because gumming up the thread is an easy tactic to use here, and it's fairly effective.
This is so empirically anti-town I want us to lynch RR now.
You will hit an anti-town player, but I don't think you'll be hitting scum.
It's D1 and we're not likely going to lynch scum anyway. Lynching confirmed anti-town is worlds better than lynching a pro-town townie who just happened to get a wagon on them for nebulous "scumminess"
Towny^^
Why? He is essentially saying we should lynch people who aren't helpful instead of lynching scum. We still have a pretty good chance of hitting scum. And either way, it at least makes people choose sides. It isn't scummy or townie to try to lynch anti-town people. It just is. Which isn't helpful D1.
-
Vote: e
I'm not townreading, scumreading or nullreading RR but I like what he's doing.
-
This seems like scummy TWM, which means that he is town. Just like look at his newbie game. He has a CRAZY different tone when he is scum compared to town.
Everyone brings up newbie mafia twm what about the game me and him were mafia together. I think this looks a hell of a lot like scum twm.
Both sides have zero rationale. I have played every game I have been in deliberately differently. This one is no different. I don't think my tone or posts have really reflected my towniness yet this game so I am a bit suspect of those thinking I am town at this point. But nor has my posts been scummy and nor has anyone shown why they think they are. You included.
-
gkrieg is making sense, and being helpful.
I don't like lynching TWM.
How am I being helpful?
Don't worry, you aren't, at all.
-
Not reading a bunch of fluff might be anti fun, and it could even be anti town. My point is that posting a lot of stuff, regardless of what that stuff is, is scummy because gumming up the thread is an easy tactic to use here, and it's fairly effective.
This is so empirically anti-town I want us to lynch RR now.
You will hit an anti-town player, but I don't think you'll be hitting scum.
It's D1 and we're not likely going to lynch scum anyway. Lynching confirmed anti-town is worlds better than lynching a pro-town townie who just happened to get a wagon on them for nebulous "scumminess"
Towny^^
Why? He is essentially saying we should lynch people who aren't helpful instead of lynching scum. We still have a pretty good chance of hitting scum. And either way, it at least makes people choose sides. It isn't scummy or townie to try to lynch anti-town people. It just is. Which isn't helpful D1.
False.
-
This seems like scummy TWM, which means that he is town. Just like look at his newbie game. He has a CRAZY different tone when he is scum compared to town.
Everyone brings up newbie mafia twm what about the game me and him were mafia together. I think this looks a hell of a lot like scum twm.
How does it look like scum TWM?
I think scum twm tries to kick do some semi aggressive scumhunting which he appeared to try to do(can't grab quotes at work) and especially the post he made calling jreggie scummy for referring to his own vote as serious. It was taking a small thing and calling it "suspicious" which isn't outright calling him scummy so hopefully other townies flood behind twm and start voting jreggie.
-
This seems like scummy TWM, which means that he is town. Just like look at his newbie game. He has a CRAZY different tone when he is scum compared to town.
Everyone brings up newbie mafia twm what about the game me and him were mafia together. I think this looks a hell of a lot like scum twm.
Both sides have zero rationale. I have played every game I have been in deliberately differently. This one is no different. I don't think my tone or posts have really reflected my towniness yet this game so I am a bit suspect of those thinking I am town at this point. But nor has my posts been scummy and nor has anyone shown why they think they are. You included.
Your tone IS different though. I won't tell you how, because there isn't much point in that and I think it would be anti-town to do so, but you are much more in the forefront, instead of drifting in the background.
-
Vote: e
I'm not townreading, scumreading or nullreading RR but I like what he's doing.
How can you like what he is doing? He is essentially doing nothing!
-
Not reading a bunch of fluff might be anti fun, and it could even be anti town. My point is that posting a lot of stuff, regardless of what that stuff is, is scummy because gumming up the thread is an easy tactic to use here, and it's fairly effective.
This is so empirically anti-town I want us to lynch RR now.
You will hit an anti-town player, but I don't think you'll be hitting scum.
It's D1 and we're not likely going to lynch scum anyway. Lynching confirmed anti-town is worlds better than lynching a pro-town townie who just happened to get a wagon on them for nebulous "scumminess"
Towny^^
Why? He is essentially saying we should lynch people who aren't helpful instead of lynching scum. We still have a pretty good chance of hitting scum. And either way, it at least makes people choose sides. It isn't scummy or townie to try to lynch anti-town people. It just is. Which isn't helpful D1.
False.
Well we definitely have a better chance of lynching scum if we try to lynch scum instead of trying not to...
-
gkrieg is making sense, and being helpful.
I don't like lynching TWM.
How am I being helpful?
Don't worry, you aren't, at all.
Yea I'm back on being cool with a gkrieg lynch.
I need to write down my thoughts townreads so I don't forget. I would actually suggest that to everyone. Later in this game it's going to be impossible to remember what happened early and scum can use that to trick people into lynch players they previously had strong town reads on, it happens even in small games.
-
Not reading a bunch of fluff might be anti fun, and it could even be anti town. My point is that posting a lot of stuff, regardless of what that stuff is, is scummy because gumming up the thread is an easy tactic to use here, and it's fairly effective.
This is so empirically anti-town I want us to lynch RR now.
You will hit an anti-town player, but I don't think you'll be hitting scum.
It's D1 and we're not likely going to lynch scum anyway. Lynching confirmed anti-town is worlds better than lynching a pro-town townie who just happened to get a wagon on them for nebulous "scumminess"
Towny^^
Why? He is essentially saying we should lynch people who aren't helpful instead of lynching scum. We still have a pretty good chance of hitting scum. And either way, it at least makes people choose sides. It isn't scummy or townie to try to lynch anti-town people. It just is. Which isn't helpful D1.
we have about at 23% chance of hitting scum today.
-
Not reading a bunch of fluff might be anti fun, and it could even be anti town. My point is that posting a lot of stuff, regardless of what that stuff is, is scummy because gumming up the thread is an easy tactic to use here, and it's fairly effective.
This is so empirically anti-town I want us to lynch RR now.
You will hit an anti-town player, but I don't think you'll be hitting scum.
It's D1 and we're not likely going to lynch scum anyway. Lynching confirmed anti-town is worlds better than lynching a pro-town townie who just happened to get a wagon on them for nebulous "scumminess"
Towny^^
Why? He is essentially saying we should lynch people who aren't helpful instead of lynching scum. We still have a pretty good chance of hitting scum. And either way, it at least makes people choose sides. It isn't scummy or townie to try to lynch anti-town people. It just is. Which isn't helpful D1.
we have about at 23% chance of hitting scum today.
Uh, maybe if we just roll a die and then all agree to vote the roll. This is Mafia, though. The die is loaded.
-
Not reading a bunch of fluff might be anti fun, and it could even be anti town. My point is that posting a lot of stuff, regardless of what that stuff is, is scummy because gumming up the thread is an easy tactic to use here, and it's fairly effective.
This is so empirically anti-town I want us to lynch RR now.
You will hit an anti-town player, but I don't think you'll be hitting scum.
It's D1 and we're not likely going to lynch scum anyway. Lynching confirmed anti-town is worlds better than lynching a pro-town townie who just happened to get a wagon on them for nebulous "scumminess"
Towny^^
Why? He is essentially saying we should lynch people who aren't helpful instead of lynching scum. We still have a pretty good chance of hitting scum. And either way, it at least makes people choose sides. It isn't scummy or townie to try to lynch anti-town people. It just is. Which isn't helpful D1.
False.
Well we definitely have a better chance of lynching scum if we try to lynch scum instead of trying not to...
I'm really not sure that this is even true.
-
Not reading a bunch of fluff might be anti fun, and it could even be anti town. My point is that posting a lot of stuff, regardless of what that stuff is, is scummy because gumming up the thread is an easy tactic to use here, and it's fairly effective.
This is so empirically anti-town I want us to lynch RR now.
You will hit an anti-town player, but I don't think you'll be hitting scum.
It's D1 and we're not likely going to lynch scum anyway. Lynching confirmed anti-town is worlds better than lynching a pro-town townie who just happened to get a wagon on them for nebulous "scumminess"
Towny^^
Why? He is essentially saying we should lynch people who aren't helpful instead of lynching scum. We still have a pretty good chance of hitting scum. And either way, it at least makes people choose sides. It isn't scummy or townie to try to lynch anti-town people. It just is. Which isn't helpful D1.
False.
Well we definitely have a better chance of lynching scum if we try to lynch scum instead of trying not to...
I'm really not sure that this is even true.
You are saying a random lynch is better than trying to lynch well?
-
gkrieg is making sense, and being helpful.
I don't like lynching TWM.
How am I being helpful?
Don't worry, you aren't, at all.
Yea I'm back on being cool with a gkrieg lynch.
I need to write down my thoughts townreads so I don't forget. I would actually suggest that to everyone. Later in this game it's going to be impossible to remember what happened early and scum can use that to trick people into lynch players they previously had strong town reads on, it happens even in small games.
And why is that?
-
Sorry that is just for the part of you being good with my lynch
-
Not reading a bunch of fluff might be anti fun, and it could even be anti town. My point is that posting a lot of stuff, regardless of what that stuff is, is scummy because gumming up the thread is an easy tactic to use here, and it's fairly effective.
This is so empirically anti-town I want us to lynch RR now.
You will hit an anti-town player, but I don't think you'll be hitting scum.
It's D1 and we're not likely going to lynch scum anyway. Lynching confirmed anti-town is worlds better than lynching a pro-town townie who just happened to get a wagon on them for nebulous "scumminess"
Towny^^
Why? He is essentially saying we should lynch people who aren't helpful instead of lynching scum. We still have a pretty good chance of hitting scum. And either way, it at least makes people choose sides. It isn't scummy or townie to try to lynch anti-town people. It just is. Which isn't helpful D1.
False.
Well we definitely have a better chance of lynching scum if we try to lynch scum instead of trying not to...
I'm really not sure that this is even true.
You are saying a random lynch is better than trying to lynch well?
When on earth did I advocate a random lynch?
-
Ahhh, 65 games later, and I can still count on waking up in the morning to find myself driving a nice D1 wagon.
O, Ash, mcmc - I'm flattered that I'm your first vote in such a big game!
For many of you this is my first time playing with you. Would people mind posting preferred nicknames when being addressed/voted? I don't feel like typing The_Wine_Merchant out every time when I imagine TWM will suffice.
Generally I go by Galz.
Hey! It's really nice to see you! For your and other reference I am the mad guy, whose first game was M85, But I have read every existing game on this site, so I know all of you, but you don't know me hehe. I always dreamt to play with you guys especially with you, Galz.
I go with LL.
*cough* nerd *cough*
-
Not reading a bunch of fluff might be anti fun, and it could even be anti town. My point is that posting a lot of stuff, regardless of what that stuff is, is scummy because gumming up the thread is an easy tactic to use here, and it's fairly effective.
This is so empirically anti-town I want us to lynch RR now.
You will hit an anti-town player, but I don't think you'll be hitting scum.
It's D1 and we're not likely going to lynch scum anyway. Lynching confirmed anti-town is worlds better than lynching a pro-town townie who just happened to get a wagon on them for nebulous "scumminess"
Towny^^
Why? He is essentially saying we should lynch people who aren't helpful instead of lynching scum. We still have a pretty good chance of hitting scum. And either way, it at least makes people choose sides. It isn't scummy or townie to try to lynch anti-town people. It just is. Which isn't helpful D1.
False.
Well we definitely have a better chance of lynching scum if we try to lynch scum instead of trying not to...
I'm really not sure that this is even true.
You are saying a random lynch is better than trying to lynch well?
When on earth did I advocate a random lynch?
When you advocated for RR's lynch based on him being anti-town.
-
Not reading a bunch of fluff might be anti fun, and it could even be anti town. My point is that posting a lot of stuff, regardless of what that stuff is, is scummy because gumming up the thread is an easy tactic to use here, and it's fairly effective.
This is so empirically anti-town I want us to lynch RR now.
You will hit an anti-town player, but I don't think you'll be hitting scum.
It's D1 and we're not likely going to lynch scum anyway. Lynching confirmed anti-town is worlds better than lynching a pro-town townie who just happened to get a wagon on them for nebulous "scumminess"
Towny^^
Why? He is essentially saying we should lynch people who aren't helpful instead of lynching scum. We still have a pretty good chance of hitting scum. And either way, it at least makes people choose sides. It isn't scummy or townie to try to lynch anti-town people. It just is. Which isn't helpful D1.
False.
Well we definitely have a better chance of lynching scum if we try to lynch scum instead of trying not to...
I'm really not sure that this is even true.
You are saying a random lynch is better than trying to lynch well?
When on earth did I advocate a random lynch?
When you advocated for RR's lynch based on him being anti-town.
You and I have very different definitions of the word "random"
-
gkrieg is making sense, and being helpful.
I don't like lynching TWM.
How am I being helpful?
Don't worry, you aren't, at all.
Yea I'm back on being cool with a gkrieg lynch.
I need to write down my thoughts townreads so I don't forget. I would actually suggest that to everyone. Later in this game it's going to be impossible to remember what happened early and scum can use that to trick people into lynch players they previously had strong town reads on, it happens even in small games.
And why is that?
I found you scummy early on, I believe pps whom I find towny said you were defending a lot of people. Then you did something I can't remember exactly what which made me think you were acting more like town, but this recent defense of twm has flipped me back around. It's loose.
-
For many of you this is my first time playing with you. Would people mind posting preferred nicknames when being addressed/voted? I don't feel like typing The_Wine_Merchant out every time when I imagine TWM will suffice.
Hi Galz :-) I'm Space!
Also, I am "they" (preferred) or "she" (acceptable), and not ever "he". Thanks!
-
Post-wall alert you guys aren't even talking about something usefull. Yes it's d1 in a big game, our lynch is gonna be really based on limited info compared to most games(semi-random) and yes there are a lot of scum so we actually still have an okay chance of catching one. Being. Anti-town is close to being scummy especially on d1. Move along now
-
I'm confused. I would definitely be fown to lynching RR, mcmc or ash at this point of the game. Cuzz is hard to read, all those guys looking like ICs who are scum in the end, I don't believe my initial townreads in the game. Nothing else at this point
-
Not reading a bunch of fluff might be anti fun, and it could even be anti town. My point is that posting a lot of stuff, regardless of what that stuff is, is scummy because gumming up the thread is an easy tactic to use here, and it's fairly effective.
This is so empirically anti-town I want us to lynch RR now.
You will hit an anti-town player, but I don't think you'll be hitting scum.
It's D1 and we're not likely going to lynch scum anyway. Lynching confirmed anti-town is worlds better than lynching a pro-town townie who just happened to get a wagon on them for nebulous "scumminess"
Towny^^
Why? He is essentially saying we should lynch people who aren't helpful instead of lynching scum. We still have a pretty good chance of hitting scum. And either way, it at least makes people choose sides. It isn't scummy or townie to try to lynch anti-town people. It just is. Which isn't helpful D1.
False.
Well we definitely have a better chance of lynching scum if we try to lynch scum instead of trying not to...
I'm really not sure that this is even true.
You are saying a random lynch is better than trying to lynch well?
When on earth did I advocate a random lynch?
When you advocated for RR's lynch based on him being anti-town.
You and I have very different definitions of the word "random"
I agree with gkrieg, lynching someone who has done nothing alignment-indicative is by definition a random lynch in terms of scumhunting
-
gkrieg is making sense, and being helpful.
I don't like lynching TWM.
How am I being helpful?
Don't worry, you aren't, at all.
Yea I'm back on being cool with a gkrieg lynch.
I need to write down my thoughts townreads so I don't forget. I would actually suggest that to everyone. Later in this game it's going to be impossible to remember what happened early and scum can use that to trick people into lynch players they previously had strong town reads on, it happens even in small games.
And why is that?
I found you scummy early on, I believe pps whom I find towny said you were defending a lot of people. Then you did something I can't remember exactly what which made me think you were acting more like town, but this recent defense of twm has flipped me back around. It's loose.
Uh... This is what I said about PPS...
-
Not reading a bunch of fluff might be anti fun, and it could even be anti town. My point is that posting a lot of stuff, regardless of what that stuff is, is scummy because gumming up the thread is an easy tactic to use here, and it's fairly effective.
This is so empirically anti-town I want us to lynch RR now.
You will hit an anti-town player, but I don't think you'll be hitting scum.
It's D1 and we're not likely going to lynch scum anyway. Lynching confirmed anti-town is worlds better than lynching a pro-town townie who just happened to get a wagon on them for nebulous "scumminess"
Towny^^
Why? He is essentially saying we should lynch people who aren't helpful instead of lynching scum. We still have a pretty good chance of hitting scum. And either way, it at least makes people choose sides. It isn't scummy or townie to try to lynch anti-town people. It just is. Which isn't helpful D1.
False.
Well we definitely have a better chance of lynching scum if we try to lynch scum instead of trying not to...
I'm really not sure that this is even true.
You are saying a random lynch is better than trying to lynch well?
When on earth did I advocate a random lynch?
When you advocated for RR's lynch based on him being anti-town.
You and I have very different definitions of the word "random"
I agree with gkrieg, lynching someone who has done nothing alignment-indicative is by definition a random lynch in terms of scumhunting
Wrong. It is a policy lynch and it is very different from a random lynch.
Scumhunting is overrated D1 in terms of actually lynching scum D1. This should not be taken to mean people shouldn't post reads, though, because those are very very very useful to look back on later in the game.
-
Like that means that your case against me is that PPS said I was defending people, but you say you think PPS is townie.
But I was the one that said PPS was defending people weird and that he was scummy. So PPS is townie for doing so, but I'm scummy for doing so? PARADOX
-
Like that means that your case against me is that PPS said I was defending people, but you say you think PPS is townie.
But I was the one that said PPS was defending people weird and that he was scummy. So PPS is townie for doing so, but I'm scummy for doing so? PARADOX
Yes. The conclusion: lynch mcmc
-
Like that means that your case against me is that PPS said I was defending people, but you say you think PPS is townie.
But I was the one that said PPS was defending people weird and that he was scummy. So PPS is townie for doing so, but I'm scummy for doing so? PARADOX
Yes. The conclusion: lynch mcmc
vote: mcmcsalot
-
This gkrieg is the "ask single questions in response to posts about me as if I were faust" gkrieg. So, in a word, scum.
-
We have to try to lynch scum D1. The fact that we don't often catch scum D1 doesn't matter. A wagon that is supposed to be on scum is much easier to find scum on than a wagon on an anti-town townie.
-
We have to try to lynch scum D1. The fact that we don't often catch scum D1 doesn't matter. A wagon that is supposed to be on scum is much easier to find scum on than a wagon on an anti-town townie.
This is a better counter-argument than any offered so far, but I am unconvinced.
-
Like that means that your case against me is that PPS said I was defending people, but you say you think PPS is townie.
But I was the one that said PPS was defending people weird and that he was scummy. So PPS is townie for doing so, but I'm scummy for doing so? PARADOX
Remember how I said I have to write things down...
-
What? You guys are crazy. Catching up now.
-
This gkrieg is the "ask single questions in response to posts about me as if I were faust" gkrieg. So, in a word, scum.
I don't believe I do that as scum. It's better than the absent gkrieg.
-
I think the unspoken thing about lynching anti-town is that there is some probability that they are also scum. So, the determination becomes...
Is (% of the time anti-town player is scum) > (% of the time town player is anti-town).
You have to adjust for the player. The % is different for SA as compared to Awaclus, for example.
It's an unfortunate commentary on RR's general town play, but I don't think this formula works for him.
-
This gkrieg is the "ask single questions in response to posts about me as if I were faust" gkrieg. So, in a word, scum.
I don't believe I do that as scum. It's better than the absent gkrieg.
At least you aren't contesting the observation.
I don't know that you've done it on purpose as scum. I do believe that you believe that when faust does it, he's towny. And that you've internalized the notion of that action equaling townies, and that it could subconsciously affect your play.
-
What? You guys are crazy. Catching up now.
Or you are just scummy. LALL.
-
It's an unfortunate commentary on RR's general town play, but I don't think this formula works for him.
The last two games I was town we won, so I think we'll be okay here, even if I'm 'anti town.'
PPE 2
-
What? You guys are crazy. Catching up now.
Or you are just scummy. LALL.
C'mon man, it's been 6 hours. People have jobs and whatnot.
-
The problem with specifically lynching anti-town is it's such a good excuse for scum. And a scum jumping on one of those wagons is nearly identical to a town jumping on one. So it doesn't matter if the anti-town player was scum or not, we get nothing alignment-indicative from the interactions.
-
What? You guys are crazy. Catching up now.
Or you are just scummy. LALL.
C'mon man, it's been 6 hours. People have jobs and whatnot.
What I'm working! Oh wait your not my boss, back to scumhunting. Also on a completely non-game related note, I really needed this distraction right now, thanks everyone.
-
What? You guys are crazy. Catching up now.
Or you are just scummy. LALL.
C'mon man, it's been 6 hours. People have jobs and whatnot.
I was clearly joking.
-
This gkrieg is the "ask single questions in response to posts about me as if I were faust" gkrieg. So, in a word, scum.
I don't believe I do that as scum. It's better than the absent gkrieg.
At least you aren't contesting the observation.
I don't know that you've done it on purpose as scum. I do believe that you believe that when faust does it, he's towny. And that you've internalized the notion of that action equaling townies, and that it could subconsciously affect your play.
I do think that it is townie when faust does it. I also think that is because it gets information out of people that they otherwise can hide. I think asking questions gives more chance of people slipping up than not asking questions. It also just depends on the mood I'm in that day.
-
The problem with specifically lynching anti-town is it's such a good excuse for scum. And a scum jumping on one of those wagons is nearly identical to a town jumping on one. So it doesn't matter if the anti-town player was scum or not, we get nothing alignment-indicative from the interactions.
I get it. It just doesn't concern me as much as the prospect of keeping an anti-town player around for that reason. They never get night-killed, they get pseudo lynch immunity for the reasons you're giving, and they're still alive in the endgame when you need strong town players.
I'm not even sure I'm really talking about RR specifically anymore, because I don't know RR. I am just giving my outlook. I just have no patience for cute anti-town nonsense, whether it's to cultivate an unpredictable meta or whatever else.
-
As in, I definitely believe that I get a better read on people by asking questions.
-
The problem with specifically lynching anti-town is it's such a good excuse for scum. And a scum jumping on one of those wagons is nearly identical to a town jumping on one. So it doesn't matter if the anti-town player was scum or not, we get nothing alignment-indicative from the interactions.
I get it. It just doesn't concern me as much as the prospect of keeping an anti-town player around for that reason. They never get night-killed, they get pseudo lynch immunity for the reasons you're giving, and they're still alive in the endgame when you need strong town players.
I'm not even sure I'm really talking about RR specifically anymore, because I don't know RR. I am just giving my outlook. I just have no patience for cute anti-town nonsense, whether it's to cultivate an unpredictable meta or whatever else.
I was talking mainly about D1. Also with RR specifically, lynching him D1 is almost never useful. He's pretty easy to spot as scum later on.
-
I finally caught up! (during my chemistry class, hope that won't bite me in the butt)
Anyway, Vote: The_Wine_Merchant. I don't like some of his setup speculation at the beginning. I feel like he was trying to breadcrumb too much in it all (for possible fakeclaims in the future), and I feel like he's been reacting to the votes in a scummy way. It feels like scum feeling caught for the wrong reasons.
-
I like O
same tbh
this banter is all for the subpurpose of getting my posting volume up so i can secretly scummily lurk for the next few days and have a nice and inflated postcount.
No one makes postcounts these days
I do.
Everyone else is scared of them because they make them look bad.
-
I like O
same tbh
this banter is all for the subpurpose of getting my posting volume up so i can secretly scummily lurk for the next few days and have a nice and inflated postcount.
Oh don't worry we rarely do those anymore
They were one of my favorite things to do back when I first started playing. Until I realized you can't actually figure out who is scum/town based on a post count.
Now, but they're pretty good to figure out who to blame if town loses.
-
Fully rereading now.
oops disconnected and botched reply.
Reply: In my opinion, massclaim = bad. But the discussion might overall be protown independently, and is definitely not just RVS discussion which is inherently nice.
is my opinion too. And I like O.
-
Now I read this:
oops disconnected and botched reply.
Reply: In my opinion, massclaim = bad. But the discussion might overall be protown independently, and is definitely not just RVS discussion which is inherently nice.
This O guy might not be town, but he probably is. But he is basically thinking all the things I am! So I like him!
Lol
-
gkrieg, what do you think about pps as SK?
Classic Reggie.
Vote: J Reggie
-
I was happy with the cuzz' vote on me, it's exactly like the vote I make on other people super early in games. It was a non rvs vote and we are well in the swing of thing with legitimate interactions going on. I give cuzz town points for it even though he voted for a townie.
This is such a weird post.
I should probably not attempt to read mcmc.
-
I'm immediately suspicious of those who are all like, "I'm totally down with lynching so and so today", as if we have progressed far enough to feel real good about them being scum or, better yet, that flipping them will corner scum.
Unfortunately, that's a wide pool of laziness so I can't draw any meaningful conclusions from it.
Now, for Andrew, please tell me, in your own words, why you think I should think you are town this game and not badass scum coming to getcha like every other game in recent memory?
-
We could claim our flavor names.
Iguana Iguana
-
I want to tunnel Gkrieg as he's been seemingly the hardest hunting early on, which i think is a scumread.
It's a good point, especially for gkrieg. He usually takes a while to get going as town.
-
to make my point more clearly:
vote:LaLight
reasoning:
we have no Innocent child. Investigation Immune and 2-shot Vig are both higher utility for the Scumteam than the town. LaLight is the most likely in my eyes to have the #1 draft slot and claim the #1 role, having read every mafia game.
I'm fully open to arguments that we shouldn't be lynching a likely vig, that LaLight doesn't understand you all very well, or just general scumminess arguments later on.
O is scummy for this though.
-
I always find massclaims to be anti-fun but should probably think a little harder about whether it might actually be optimal for town. D1 scum might not have had too much of a chance to coordinate ideal fakeclaims, especially with a setup this complicated.
Massclaim talk is generally scummy because it's just thread clutter; everyone knows it's never going to happen.
-
gkrieg is making sense, and being helpful.
I don't like lynching TWM.
How am I being helpful?
Don't worry, you aren't, at all.
By talking some sense in this crazy, crazy world.
-
Good God people. You don't need to take a stand on whether we are going to mass claim. We aren't. You don't need to chime in on it. What we should talk about is what other roles out there might be worth claiming in isolation now or later and how we can best use them to our advantage. Or maybe we shouldn't talk about that. But we can at least talk about talking about it.
Seriously no one has ever suggested mass claiming (except PPS I guess off-offhandedly) so it shouldn't warrant dozens of posts about it and no one should be getting towncred for being against it.
This guy gets it. +1 and town points.
-
I don't think I'm gonna read all this. I also think that posting a whole bunch is very scummy.
Roadrunner just says this because he's lazy and he came into this game and was disappointed that he wasn't the person with the most junk posts. It's a "If I can't be a superhero, no one can" mentality. Not a scum mentality.
-
We could claim our flavor names.
Vote: J Reggie
This is funny because Jake once messed up a flavor claim pretty badly.
-
Innocent Child? We don't appear to have one? How worried should we be about mafia with a 2-shot vig?
vote: twm
Now that's just lazy.
-
And Faust, because how has he not posted?
Nono, deviating from the norm is townie.
Also I'm in Stockholm.
-
I don't think RR chooses jailkeeper as town.
What the hell?
It's possible he didn't read the setup. But he's claiming there are only 6 scum.
And I didn't even think about converting SK to VT. So there's no way he can know there are 6 scum without being scum himself.
I think it just means that he didn't think hard about what he said before he said it.
-
what even is day 1 "scumhunting"
It's what shows whether you're good at this game.
-
I want to tunnel Gkrieg as he's been seemingly the hardest hunting early on, which i think is a scumread.
It's a good point, especially for gkrieg. He usually takes a while to get going as town.
This game has already been pretty involved up to this point. Usually it takes me a while to get going because I have other games, or I'm a VT so I've only posted /in and /confirm. This game already had me post a bunch of stuff in my QT.
-
Actually, someone said survivor earlier. Breadcrumb?
I don't think I'm gonna read all this. I also think that posting a whole bunch is very scummy.
FOS: RR. Scum Is less likely to want to read the whole thread because they have fewer real reads to make.
I only need to make 6 reads.
SK slip? How do you know the covert things didn't happen?
These two posts were what seemed scummy from Ash. Because there's 22 other people in this game and he's already looking for the Serial Killer/SK convert.
-
Not reading a bunch of fluff might be anti fun, and it could even be anti town. My point is that posting a lot of stuff, regardless of what that stuff is, is scummy because gumming up the thread is an easy tactic to use here, and it's fairly effective.
This is so empirically anti-town I want us to lynch RR now.
Fun fact: Robz suggested I use the exact tactic RR is describing in my first scum game ever.
-
I want to tunnel Gkrieg as he's been seemingly the hardest hunting early on, which i think is a scumread.
It's a good point, especially for gkrieg. He usually takes a while to get going as town.
This game has already been pretty involved up to this point. Usually it takes me a while to get going because I have other games, or I'm a VT so I've only posted /in and /confirm. This game already had me post a bunch of stuff in my QT.
YOU DON'T SAY
-
Actually, someone said survivor earlier. Breadcrumb?
I don't think I'm gonna read all this. I also think that posting a whole bunch is very scummy.
FOS: RR. Scum Is less likely to want to read the whole thread because they have fewer real reads to make.
I only need to make 6 reads.
SK slip? How do you know the covert things didn't happen?
These two posts were what seemed scummy from Ash. Because there's 22 other people in this game and he's already looking for the Serial Killer/SK convert.
I was Ash's partner in my most recent scum game, and he made sure in the QT that I knew to avoid looking like I was SK hunting because it is a well-known scum tell. I don't think points out what he saw as a potential SK!slip if he was actually scum. He'd have logged in in his QT then shared it with scum. So I actually think that is slightly townie (specifically coming from him, not in general).
PPE 2
-
Ok I skimmed. I like Vote: Ash for third party hunting.
I didn't get that from what ash has done. I think he's just been helpful.
I agree. There's a difference between hunting and pointing out a potential slip.
There is my bias that the last two games I played with Ash I stubbornly townread him the entire game in the face of all evidence he was scum. So there's a part of me who wants to stubbornly scumread him this entire game to find out he is town.
-
Not reading a bunch of fluff might be anti fun, and it could even be anti town. My point is that posting a lot of stuff, regardless of what that stuff is, is scummy because gumming up the thread is an easy tactic to use here, and it's fairly effective.
This is so empirically anti-town I want us to lynch RR now.
Fun fact: Robz suggested I use the exact tactic RR is describing in my first scum game ever.
did it work?
-
Not reading a bunch of fluff might be anti fun, and it could even be anti town. My point is that posting a lot of stuff, regardless of what that stuff is, is scummy because gumming up the thread is an easy tactic to use here, and it's fairly effective.
This is so empirically anti-town I want us to lynch RR now.
You will hit an anti-town player, but I don't think you'll be hitting scum.
It's D1 and we're not likely going to lynch scum anyway. Lynching confirmed anti-town is worlds better than lynching a pro-town townie who just happened to get a wagon on them for nebulous "scumminess"
Towny^^
I want to note my townread on Jake. This seems like the good Jake so far.
-
Ok I skimmed. I like Vote: Ash for third party hunting.
I didn't get that from what ash has done. I think he's just been helpful.
I agree. There's a difference between hunting and pointing out a potential slip.
There is my bias that the last two games I played with Ash I stubbornly townread him the entire game in the face of all evidence he was scum. So there's a part of me who wants to stubbornly scumread him this entire game to find out he is town.
Oh yeah, you were town in that game with scum!me, Ash, and JR. Sorry.
-
Vote: e
I'm not townreading, scumreading or nullreading RR but I like what he's doing.
How can you like what he is doing? He is essentially doing nothing!
A true Awaclus protege.
-
People off today's lynch menu so far:
TWM
LaLight
RR
iguana
Will try to keep this list updated through D1. I probably won't bother to take anyone off given the size of this game.
-
Not reading a bunch of fluff might be anti fun, and it could even be anti town. My point is that posting a lot of stuff, regardless of what that stuff is, is scummy because gumming up the thread is an easy tactic to use here, and it's fairly effective.
This is so empirically anti-town I want us to lynch RR now.
Fun fact: Robz suggested I use the exact tactic RR is describing in my first scum game ever.
did it work?
Well we won, and I don't think anyone ever reread me.
-
People off today's lynch menu so far:
TWM
LaLight
RR
iguana
Will try to keep this list updated through D1. I probably won't bother to take anyone off given the size of this game.
I like this as a plan fully but I hate your list of people. Why don't things ever work for us.
-
People off today's lynch menu so far:
TWM
LaLight
RR
iguana
Will try to keep this list updated through D1. I probably won't bother to take anyone off given the size of this game.
I like this as a plan fully but I hate your list of people. Why don't things ever work for us.
Like I actually see validity in your twm read which makes me sad, but are lalight, iguana, and rr there?
-
That was meant to be why are they there?
-
That was meant to be why are they there?
I'm a town, and I'm his pet Iguana 8)
-
My townies are currently:
TWM
e
faust
ash (for now)
J Reggie
-
That was meant to be why are they there?
I'm a town, and I'm his pet Iguana 8)
This.
-
That was meant to be why are they there?
I feel it. There's no hard reasoning, but we only have 7 days and these people came out as the most townie. Plus iguana, who's just there because I like him.
-
I don't think I'm gonna read all this. I also think that posting a whole bunch is very scummy.
Roadrunner just says this because he's lazy and he came into this game and was disappointed that he wasn't the person with the most junk posts. It's a "If I can't be a superhero, no one can" mentality. Not a scum mentality.
So you're saying that they are junk posts and probably not really worth reading?
-
Vote: sudgy
I think is good. Definitely the highest scumminess-per-post ratio.
-
I think I want to take ash out of the lynch pool too. Well, put this as onging consideration.
-
I think I want to take ash out of the lynch pool too. Well, put this as onging consideration.
Why the hesitation?
-
I think I want to take ash out of the lynch pool too. Well, put this as onging consideration.
Why the hesitation?
I'm happy with a 4 people/day ratio. YOu have to kow when to stop.
-
My townies are currently:
TWM
e
faust
ash (for now)
J Reggie
I don't like this. It feels like you're mimicking Faust's play because it's generally towny, but your list is a 'towny' list and not a 'not gonna lynch' list. Handing out lots of town reads is generally scummy I think.
-
Vote Count 1.4
LaLight (1): SpaceAnemone,
mcmcsalot (3): 2.71828..., The_Wine_Merchant, gkrieg
2.71828 (2): AndrewisFTTW, Awaclus
ashersky (2): LaLight, iguanaiguana
Cuzz (1): Eevee
J Reggie (1): JaketheBaseballGod22
The_Wine_Merchant (5): J Reggie, ashersky, mcmcsalot, Dylan32, sudgy
RoadRunner (2): O, Cuzz
sudgy (1): faust
Not Voting (5): Galzria, Calamitas, pingpongsam, RoadRunner, Jimmmm,
With 23 alive it takes just 10 to lynch. Day 1 ends on Tuesday, May 23, at 10:00 AM Forum Time.
-
My townies are currently:
TWM
e
faust
ash (for now)
J Reggie
I don't like this. It feels like you're mimicking Faust's play because it's generally towny, but your list is a 'towny' list and not a 'not gonna lynch' list. Handing out lots of town reads is generally scummy I think.
Handing out a lot of D1 town reads is definitely not scummy in a game this big. How else am I going to sort through all these people?
-
I trust Cuzz and faust for now
-
well, I have more scumreads than townreads
ash, mcmc, RR, gkrieg, TWM have all done something scummy. I will ne fine with lynching either D1
-
well, I have more scumreads than townreads
ash, mcmc, RR, gkrieg, TWM have all done something scummy. I will ne fine with lynching either D1
What scummy thing have I done?
-
well, I have more scumreads than townreads
ash, mcmc, RR, gkrieg, TWM have all done something scummy. I will ne fine with lynching either D1
What scummy thing have I done?
Mostly I didn't like much of the massclaim going "Is it bad?" "Oh, maybe it's good" "no, bad" "no, good" "definitely bad". It was like you're testing other people if they are eager to claim something.
Also I do not like this at all:
I want to tunnel Gkrieg as he's been seemingly the hardest hunting early on, which i think is a scumread.
It's a good point, especially for gkrieg. He usually takes a while to get going as town.
This game has already been pretty involved up to this point. Usually it takes me a while to get going because I have other games, or I'm a VT so I've only posted /in and /confirm. This game already had me post a bunch of stuff in my QT.
But I can't tell you why. Ringing my scumbells a lot.
-
Have no idea why the grammar in the previous post is so bad (maybe because of 1am?). I meant I didn't like the massclaim monologue.
-
gone to bed. Waiting to wake up to page 40
-
Hello.
-
Hello.
Welcome to the party.
-
My townies are currently:
TWM
e
faust
ash (for now)
J Reggie
I don't like this. It feels like you're mimicking Faust's play because it's generally towny, but your list is a 'towny' list and not a 'not gonna lynch' list. Handing out lots of town reads is generally scummy I think.
Handing out a lot of D1 town reads is definitely not scummy in a game this big. How else am I going to sort through all these people?
Using the size of the game seems like a bad excuse too. Just because there are more people doesn't mean they're towny.
-
My townies are currently:
TWM
e
faust
ash (for now)
J Reggie
I don't like this. It feels like you're mimicking Faust's play because it's generally towny, but your list is a 'towny' list and not a 'not gonna lynch' list. Handing out lots of town reads is generally scummy I think.
Handing out a lot of D1 town reads is definitely not scummy in a game this big. How else am I going to sort through all these people?
Using the size of the game seems like a bad excuse too. Just because there are more people doesn't mean they're towny.
I don't think having a small proportion of the people as town reads this early is scummy
-
Just FYI, I still have classes for a few more weeks. I'll try to be involved, but it might be hard. I have tons of homework I need to get done right now, so bye for now.
-
well, I have more scumreads than townreads
ash, mcmc, RR, gkrieg, TWM have all done something scummy. I will ne fine with lynching either D1
What scummy thing have I done?
Mostly I didn't like much of the massclaim going "Is it bad?" "Oh, maybe it's good" "no, bad" "no, good" "definitely bad". It was like you're testing other people if they are eager to claim something.
Also I do not like this at all:
I want to tunnel Gkrieg as he's been seemingly the hardest hunting early on, which i think is a scumread.
It's a good point, especially for gkrieg. He usually takes a while to get going as town.
This game has already been pretty involved up to this point. Usually it takes me a while to get going because I have other games, or I'm a VT so I've only posted /in and /confirm. This game already had me post a bunch of stuff in my QT.
But I can't tell you why. Ringing my scumbells a lot.
Waffling on this means that I haven't thought about it up to that point, which is townie.
-
I don't think I'm gonna read all this. I also think that posting a whole bunch is very scummy.
Roadrunner just says this because he's lazy and he came into this game and was disappointed that he wasn't the person with the most junk posts. It's a "If I can't be a superhero, no one can" mentality. Not a scum mentality.
So you're saying that they are junk posts and probably not really worth reading?
They are junk posts that you had better read.
-
Oh my god. The giant wall quotes. Make them stawp! Like this thread isn't long enough without giant wall quotes. Snip snip!
-
It feels like scum feeling caught for the wrong reasons.
In my limited experience this is a shitty justification to vote for someone. Too many feels in there. You feel that I feel that they feel. Never really works out that way.
-
mcmc did something townie. I don't remember what it was. Oh wait. I liked that he said we should take notes (maybe if I had taken notes I would have remembered that easier). Sure anyone can suggest it for towncred, I acknowledge that but he gets towncred anyway.
So, vote: sudgy
I'll sheep faust
-
I'm caught up, but also at work so don't have time to do more than drop a quick post (I'll be off in about 4 hours and will do a full re-read then).
A) I was NOT breadcrumbing or soft - claiming Survivor. Those games were simply my most "recent" (2 years ago!) forum games, and when referencing personalities (like Eevee's) stand out most in my mind. --- I'm NOT a Survivor.
B) I don't think my previous question was answered or addressed, but until it is: Vote: Reggie
To make reads easier, from this point until an undisclosed later time, I will automatically be scumreading anyone who votes gkrieg and townreading anyone who votes pps.
Gkrieg voted PPS for "a weird amount of defending" after like, 4 posts. What's your support of both Gkrieg and his read?
C) TWM flipping his opinion around PRIOR to a wagon or pressure being placed on him is not scummy in my eyes. He had no reason to "scramble" or change his tune other than his thought process changed. This is more indicative of town to me - scum come in with an idea and are better at sticking to it.
Lastly, RR is a poor lynch choice for being "anti-town". At least, for now. If nothing better surfaces as d1 continues and he hasn't tried to play we can reevaluate. Until then, I don't like it.
-
Townie entrance from galz
-
Don't think I ever got an answer from Andrew. Feeling like all I really have to do today is decide if faust and Andrew are town or not. Andrew because he's scary as scum and faust because he is controlling the game upon entrance.
TWM sheeping faust on voting sudgy looks terrible for both of them.
-
mcmc did something townie. I don't remember what it was. Oh wait. I liked that he said we should take notes (maybe if I had taken notes I would have remembered that easier). Sure anyone can suggest it for towncred, I acknowledge that but he gets towncred anyway.
So, vote: sudgy
I'll sheep faust
Great OMGUS.
It feels like scum feeling caught for the wrong reasons.
In my limited experience this is a shitty justification to vote for someone. Too many feels in there. You feel that I feel that they feel. Never really works out that way.
I've seen scum (including myself) caught by this very thing, so I think it's a very valid case to be made.
-
I don't get why OMGUS is such a bad thing. I have had good results from it.
And caught for the wrong reasons doesn't work. I mean, sure it can happen. But you can't rely on it. It is a fluke. How do you differentiate between scum caught for the wrong reasons and town being suspected for the wrong, or bad, reasons?
Show me that and give a rationale for it that can actually mean something and I'll give you the time of day. Until then it is just a bad justification for what is often a lazy vote to begin with.
-
mcmc did something townie. I don't remember what it was. Oh wait. I liked that he said we should take notes (maybe if I had taken notes I would have remembered that easier). Sure anyone can suggest it for towncred, I acknowledge that but he gets towncred anyway.
So, vote: sudgy
I'll sheep faust
Great OMGUS.
It feels like scum feeling caught for the wrong reasons.
In my limited experience this is a shitty justification to vote for someone. Too many feels in there. You feel that I feel that they feel. Never really works out that way.
I've seen scum (including myself) caught by this very thing, so I think it's a very valid case to be made.
I've also been on the receiving end of scum using that case to try to get me lynched, and have seen that more than I've seen it actually catch scum, so it might be valid at times, but it is probably weak.
-
Don't think I ever got an answer from Andrew. Feeling like all I really have to do today is decide if faust and Andrew are town or not. Andrew because he's scary as scum and faust because he is controlling the game upon entrance.
TWM sheeping faust on voting sudgy looks terrible for both of them.
Has Andrew posted since you asked. People need to remember WW are still in the first day. Too much acting like this game has been around longer than it has.
And are you suggesting Faust and I are partners. If you think that you should say so instead of hiding in the bushes.
-
I don't get why OMGUS is such a bad thing. I have had good results from it.
And caught for the wrong reasons doesn't work. I mean, sure it can happen. But you can't rely on it. It is a fluke. How do you differentiate between scum caught for the wrong reasons and town being suspected for the wrong, or bad, reasons?
Show me that and give a rationale for it that can actually mean something and I'll give you the time of day. Until then it is just a bad justification for what is often a lazy vote to begin with.
I think the rationale is based more on the reaction the person has and how they defend themselves than the reasons being used to accuse them. As you can tell from my previous post, I don't really care for it, but it isn't always completely wrong.
-
When I think of PPS, hiding in the bushes does not come to mind.
-
When I think of PPS, hiding in the bushes does not come to mind.
Bad Sean Spicer reference.
-
Actually, I could see him hiding in the bushes, holding a large mallet, and waiting to hammer an unsuspecting kid in a wagon without first announcing his intent to do so.
-
I don't get why OMGUS is such a bad thing. I have had good results from it.
And caught for the wrong reasons doesn't work. I mean, sure it can happen. But you can't rely on it. It is a fluke. How do you differentiate between scum caught for the wrong reasons and town being suspected for the wrong, or bad, reasons?
Show me that and give a rationale for it that can actually mean something and I'll give you the time of day. Until then it is just a bad justification for what is often a lazy vote to begin with.
M99 in a nutshell
-
I don't get why OMGUS is such a bad thing. I have had good results from it.
And caught for the wrong reasons doesn't work. I mean, sure it can happen. But you can't rely on it. It is a fluke. How do you differentiate between scum caught for the wrong reasons and town being suspected for the wrong, or bad, reasons?
Show me that and give a rationale for it that can actually mean something and I'll give you the time of day. Until then it is just a bad justification for what is often a lazy vote to begin with.
M99 in a nutshell
I was just a casual observer of that game and while I know that people thought you were a different type of mafia than you were, you were just being generally scummy and off your typical meta and thought their votes were justified regardless of what alignment they thought you were. So not sure if that situation applies very well.
-
I still feel like we haven't had substantial conversation about my draft/roles topic, only haphazard conversation about whether the conversation is supposedly anti-town or pro-town, in which i was never convinced it was anti-town.
I also feel like the past non-small amount of pages have had absolutely nothing substantial. We have a cool, interesting format that Robz gifted and you all seem to be elected to stick your heads in the sand and talk about your uber-special "day one reads" as if they have any real bearing at all.
When I was scum in past games I would figuratively just dartboard my reads day one and I pretty much never ran into trouble with it. It's some weird fiction yall have if you really think arbitrary informationless day one pre-wagon read discussion is helpful.
So, to pose a discussion question. If you grant the assumptions that 1. I'm town and 2. I have the magical powers of deduction to have decent probability guesses on whether some people have strong roles or not, should I 1. focus on those I suspect to have power roles 2. focus on those I expect to be unimportant VTs or 3. Put my head in the sand and pretend I never was able to make these educated guesses?
-
Probably number 1.
-
I still feel like we haven't had substantial conversation about my draft/roles topic, only haphazard conversation about whether the conversation is supposedly anti-town or pro-town, in which i was never convinced it was anti-town.
I also feel like the past non-small amount of pages have had absolutely nothing substantial. We have a cool, interesting format that Robz gifted and you all seem to be elected to stick your heads in the sand and talk about your uber-special "day one reads" as if they have any real bearing at all.
When I was scum in past games I would figuratively just dartboard my reads day one and I pretty much never ran into trouble with it. It's some weird fiction yall have if you really think arbitrary informationless day one pre-wagon read discussion is helpful.
So, to pose a discussion question. If you grant the assumptions that 1. I'm town and 2. I have the magical powers of deduction to have decent probability guesses on whether some people have strong roles or not, should I 1. focus on those I suspect to have power roles 2. focus on those I expect to be unimportant VTs or 3. Put my head in the sand and pretend I never was able to make these educated guesses?
Definitely 3.... JK probably 1
-
Probably number 1.
And out all our PRs....
This is an interesting question. I thunk you would want to do a mix of 1 and 2
-
Although I do feel like I have a halfway decent reads going both ways on some people on/off my wagon as a result of it. So it hasn't been completely useless.
-
Which, combining 1 and 2 is actually just doing number 3. So yeah. Stick your head in the sand.
-
Probably number 1.
And out all our PRs....
This is an interesting question. I thunk you would want to do a mix of 1 and 2
This way. I think who has PRs and doesn't is irrelevant to who is scum and town, considering we got the order before we were given alignments.
-
You can pull your head out on d3
-
Obviously it is important to use that information for night actions and such. Targeting a VT with a Tracker won't get you very far...
-
Probably number 1.
And out all our PRs....
This is an interesting question. I thunk you would want to do a mix of 1 and 2
This way. I think who has PRs and doesn't is irrelevant to who is scum and town, considering we got the order before we were given alignments.
oh it absolutely is. The first question is dependent on the sub-question "what roles do we think are more beneficial for town than mafia, and visa-versa".
-
Probably number 1.
And out all our PRs....
This is an interesting question. I thunk you would want to do a mix of 1 and 2
This way. I think who has PRs and doesn't is irrelevant to who is scum and town, considering we got the order before we were given alignments.
oh it absolutely is. The first question is dependent on the sub-question "what roles do we think are more beneficial for town than mafia, and visa-versa".
Then you will be asking why we don't have an IC. I thought we covered this?
-
Probably number 1.
And out all our PRs....
This is an interesting question. I thunk you would want to do a mix of 1 and 2
This way. I think who has PRs and doesn't is irrelevant to who is scum and town, considering we got the order before we were given alignments.
oh it absolutely is. The first question is dependent on the sub-question "what roles do we think are more beneficial for town than mafia, and visa-versa".
Then you will be asking why we don't have an IC. I thought we covered this?
no because the previous "covering" of it was bad math or w/e
I can't imagine ever having an IC.
IC is more beneficial to town than it is to Mafia. That's not very relevant as 2-shot town vig is more beneficial to town than IC is, so I would expect a 2-shot vig regardless of whether town or mafia got draft role 1.
-
But the proportion of mafia that have roles and town that have roles should be almost* the same.
*yes I know that mafia got to plan, which means they all bid for different slots. Actually I agree with you. Having that information makes it so that mafia were more likely to get roles than town, but not that much, I wouldn't think.
-
Probably number 1.
And out all our PRs....
This is an interesting question. I thunk you would want to do a mix of 1 and 2
This way. I think who has PRs and doesn't is irrelevant to who is scum and town, considering we got the order before we were given alignments.
oh it absolutely is. The first question is dependent on the sub-question "what roles do we think are more beneficial for town than mafia, and visa-versa".
Then you will be asking why we don't have an IC. I thought we covered this?
Why don't we again. We talked about it, but I don't know if we got a good answer. I am still concerned about it.
-
Don't think I ever got an answer from Andrew. Feeling like all I really have to do today is decide if faust and Andrew are town or not. Andrew because he's scary as scum and faust because he is controlling the game upon entrance.
TWM sheeping faust on voting sudgy looks terrible for both of them.
Has Andrew posted since you asked. People need to remember WW are still in the first day. Too much acting like this game has been around longer than it has.
And are you suggesting Faust and I are partners. If you think that you should say so instead of hiding in the bushes.
I know he hadn't posted. I'm just reminding me and everyone else the question stands regardless of activity level.
I'm not jumping to contrived conclusions. The crappy vote on miss komen was bad and the sheeping was worse. That stands regardless of any other implications which aren't relevant right now. You can't diffusé the crappiness because I refuse to make an equally crappy rash analysis. At this point either or both of you could be scum or town making crappy plays.
Lol at hammering a kid in the wagon, though. I'm not doing that today although I did consider it. It just doesn't work as well as I thought it might.
-
Good response from pps and not the first. I hadn't intended my question to him to get a good read from, but I think it did
-
miss komen = sudgy?
-
I really dislike what o is doing, continually bringing up claiming things, and pushing the point that the first pr taken would obviously be a 2-shot vig is crazy. He's just pr hunting day one.
-
Vote Count 1.5
LaLight (1): SpaceAnemone,
mcmcsalot (2): 2.71828..., gkrieg
2.71828 (2): AndrewisFTTW, Awaclus
ashersky (2): LaLight, iguanaiguana
Cuzz (1): Eevee
J Reggie (2): JaketheBaseballGod22, Galzria
The_Wine_Merchant (5): J Reggie, ashersky, mcmcsalot, Dylan32, sudgy
RoadRunner (2): O, Cuzz
sudgy (2): faust, The_Wine_Merchant
Not Voting (4): Calamitas, pingpongsam, RoadRunner, Jimmmm,
With 23 alive it takes just 10 to lynch. Day 1 ends on Tuesday, May 23, at 10:00 AM Forum Time.
-
This might be the first time I've ever said this, but I actually think I agree with mcmc on that.
-
I really dislike what o is doing, continually bringing up claiming things, and pushing the point that the first pr taken would obviously be a 2-shot vig is crazy. He's just pr hunting day one.
Can you tangibly put into words what "pr hunting" actually means?
because nothing i've said is remotely going to cause anyone to claim. I don't have any intention of stopping the discussion until i see a compelling argument that isn't just "talking about the game in any substantial way is scum".
No. Talking about the game is pro-town. Presumably Mafia already have the opportunity to talk about the game in their QT. I'd like to even the playing field.
Plus, if I'm being honest, it's much more entertaining then the other stuff being written.
-
actually I don't think I've even brought up claiming things. I've brought up discussing the PRs, which is related to claiming things but not the same thing at all.
I've said repeatedly I don't want a massclaim.
-
O, I think some people fear that your constant discussing of PRs will trip some people up into revealing a small detail that seems harmless to them but is actually helpful for scum.
-
I have faith in you all if that's the case. We can do this! You're all excellent mafia players!
Scum start with an information advantage: on alignments, on roles, on potential distribution of roles. Refusing to discuss any of this helps scum maintain that advantage.
-
O, I think some people fear that your constant discussing of PRs will trip some people up into revealing a small detail that seems harmless to them but is actually helpful for scum.
I thnk that is just as likely, or at least nearly as likely, as mafia stating something or feeling compelled to say something that might limit their claiming options in the future. Both sides stand to benefit. As O already said mafia is at an advantage in terms of knowing things.
-
I have faith in you all if that's the case. We can do this! You're all excellent mafia players!
Scum start with an information advantage: on alignments, on roles, on potential distribution of roles. Refusing to discuss any of this helps scum maintain that advantage.
But with so many people alive, I don't really see the advantage about talking about that kind of stuff. I mean sure there are slots that scum are much more likely to go for, but other than that, I don't really see the upside about talking about all this stuff. I'm not sure it matters too much how the roles are distributed, and it is pretty easy to lie about as scum anyways.
Like mafia still doesn't know all the roles that exist, and they don't even really know much about the distribution of roles. And even then, the only way that we could even the playing field is with a massclaim, which shouldn't happen.
-
But with so many people alive, I don't really see the advantage about talking about that kind of stuff. I mean sure there are slots that scum are much more likely to go for, but other than that, I don't really see the upside about talking about all this stuff. I'm not sure it matters too much how the roles are distributed, and it is pretty easy to lie about as scum anyways.
Like mafia still doesn't know all the roles that exist, and they don't even really know much about the distribution of roles. And even then, the only way that we could even the playing field is with a massclaim, which shouldn't happen.
They know:
where their votes placed them on the ordering
what roles they have
what roles they don't have but are in the game because of slots already being taken
We can't "even the playing field" even with a massclaim, but we can get ourselves some iota of information.
I feel like it's all crazy talk here. I'm talking about just discussing the PRs out there and how the voting might have went and you're all going "massclaim bad" "we can't hunt PRs"
I'm not really proposing some revolutionary discussion, but the complete shutdown of discussion by most of the people here is really surprising to me.
Not scummy necessarily, just kinda weird and dissappointing and less interesting play.
-
Come on guys, think about it. O has been gone for a while. He hasn't been privy to our fun conversations about what type of bread crumbing is cheating and what isn't. O is still living in 2012, where bussing was just becoming a thing. O is obviously the 2 shot vig.
-
Come on guys, think about it. O has been gone for a while. He hasn't been privy to our fun conversations about what type of bread crumbing is cheating and what isn't. O is still living in 2012, where bussing was just becoming a thing. O is obviously the 2 shot vig.
Bussing wasn't "just becoming a thing". My default scum strategy was to buss by default as hard as possible as frequently as possible. Won me MVIII pretty handily.
-
but yes i am the two shot vig.
-
To galz: I think the reason I did that gkrieg/pps thing was to get somewhere. There was a disagreement and I was taking a side, and sort of encouraging other people to take sides. Once something more interesting happened (in this case TWM being scummy and then getting scummier when people started accusing him) I forgot about it and moved on.
To O: talking about prs D1 is kind of pointless, unless you're a. an IC or b. about to be lynched and are a PR. And PR hunting is like scumhunting. You're not trying to get scum to claim, but you're looking for them to slip up and give up a hint at their role.
-
but yes i am the two shot vig.
Nice WIFOM though.
-
Come on guys, think about it. O has been gone for a while. He hasn't been privy to our fun conversations about what type of bread crumbing is cheating and what isn't. O is still living in 2012, where bussing was just becoming a thing. O is obviously the 2 shot vig.
Bussing wasn't "just becoming a thing". My default scum strategy was to buss by default as hard as possible as frequently as possible. Won me MVIII pretty handily.
Yeah I know, I was gonna make a joke about you guys rubbing sticks together back then but I decided to make one that had to do with mafia.
-
but yes i am the two shot vig.
Roadrunner7671 is a king.
-
but yes i am the two shot vig.
That's exciting
-
but yes i am the two shot vig.
Roadrunner7671 is a king.
Or just a provocateur?
-
but yes i am the two shot vig.
Roadrunner7671 is a king.
Or just a provocateur?
That's a funny way to spell prophet
-
but yes i am the two shot vig.
Roadrunner7671 is a king.
Or just a provocateur?
That's a funny way to spell prophet
I just saw him tell you what you wanted to hear.
-
I don't get why OMGUS is such a bad thing. I have had good results from it.
And caught for the wrong reasons doesn't work. I mean, sure it can happen. But you can't rely on it. It is a fluke. How do you differentiate between scum caught for the wrong reasons and town being suspected for the wrong, or bad, reasons?
Show me that and give a rationale for it that can actually mean something and I'll give you the time of day. Until then it is just a bad justification for what is often a lazy vote to begin with.
It's usually way worse to scum for a scum player to die than to town for a town player to die. So, scum will usually have a greater will to live than town. Then, on top of it all, if you did nothing wrong and everybody hates you, of course you get frustrated. Sure, town will get frustrated too, but not nearly as much as scum does.
Anyway, I think that any setup speculation is useless D1. We don't have any information and can't really figure out anything because of that. The only thing we get is possibly outed PRs.
-
I think most reactions are more based in "i'd like to keep playing this game", rather than "it's bad for me to die as scum" vs. "it's slightly less bad for me to die as town".
-
I think most reactions are more based in "i'd like to keep playing this game", rather than "it's bad for me to die as scum" vs. "it's slightly less bad for me to die as town".
I'd like to keep playing, but I definitely would want to keep playing more as scum than as town.
-
I think most reactions are more based in "i'd like to keep playing this game", rather than "it's bad for me to die as scum" vs. "it's slightly less bad for me to die as town".
I'd like to keep playing, but I definitely would want to keep playing more as scum than as town.
I guess people in this game slightly less want to die even as VTs because, well, it's M100
-
People should arrange their longer posts. Put the important stuff to the top, like votes and such.
(This is in response to:)
Oh my god. The giant wall quotes. Make them stawp! Like this thread isn't long enough without giant wall quotes. Snip snip!
-
TWM sheeping faust on voting sudgy looks terrible for both of them.
Because it means we are scum partners?
-
I really dislike what o is doing, continually bringing up claiming things, and pushing the point that the first pr taken would obviously be a 2-shot vig is crazy. He's just pr hunting day one.
I dün't necessarily like it, but it's townie.
-
After going through this, amended list:
RR
LaLight
TWM
iguana
O
-
I'm traveling for the day, back in the evening though.
I'm finding it hard to differentiate between town reads and people who I agree with.
I think accusing others of looking like scum caught for the wrong reasons might be starting to be a
scumtell, I feel it's been one of the easier arguments to push for myself in my recent scum games.
-
I'm not going to read any posts longer than 2 lines if this posting rate keeps up.
-
I think who has PRs and doesn't is irrelevant to who is scum and town, considering we got the order before we were given alignments.
If we have a werewolf faction, then the second of them will have been drawn from a player who would otherwise have been a VT. It's quite an interesting mechanism from a design point of view, because it makes those of us more likely to be VTs (relative newbies other than people like LL who've read everything) fractionally more likely to be scum from the perspective of every other player who knows nothing about what happened with the bidding in slot 8.
-
I think who has PRs and doesn't is irrelevant to who is scum and town, considering we got the order before we were given alignments.
If we have a werewolf faction, then the second of them will have been drawn from a player who would otherwise have been a VT. It's quite an interesting mechanism from a design point of view, because it makes those of us more likely to be VTs (relative newbies other than people like LL who've read everything) fractionally more likely to be scum from the perspective of every other player who knows nothing about what happened with the bidding in slot 8.
That's obviously true but I think it's pretty unlikely that we have wolves which puts the overall effect on the estimates very close to zero.
-
TWM sheeping faust on voting sudgy looks terrible for both of them.
Because it means we are scum partners?
Deja vu much? I'm going to assume you've seen my response to this exact same assumption from TWM by now.
-
TWM sheeping faust on voting sudgy looks terrible for both of them.
And are you suggesting Faust and I are partners?
I'm not jumping to contrived conclusions. The crappy vote on miss komen was bad and the sheeping was worse. That stands regardless of any other implications which aren't relevant right now. You can't diffusé the crappiness because I refuse to make an equally crappy rash analysis. At this point either or both of you could be scum or town making crappy plays.
Quotes abridged for brevity.
-
I think who has PRs and doesn't is irrelevant to who is scum and town, considering we got the order before we were given alignments.
If we have a werewolf faction, then the second of them will have been drawn from a player who would otherwise have been a VT. It's quite an interesting mechanism from a design point of view, because it makes those of us more likely to be VTs (relative newbies other than people like LL who've read everything) fractionally more likely to be scum from the perspective of every other player who knows nothing about what happened with the bidding in slot 8.
That's obviously true but I think it's pretty unlikely that we have wolves which puts the overall effect on the estimates very close to zero.
Tee hee.. my next idea for saying/asking things on here was going to be to try to draw you into conversation, given that you're the only person I can think of who struggles even more than I do with saying things D1 in a big game.
I do agree that the effect is essentially negligible, but as I said before the game started, I'm excited at the possibility of werewolves :-)
-
but yes i am the two shot vig.
O are you the two shot vig?
-
I feel like it's all crazy talk here. I'm talking about just discussing the PRs out there and how the voting might have went and you're all going "massclaim bad" "we can't hunt PRs"
I'm not really proposing some revolutionary discussion, but the complete shutdown of discussion by most of the people here is really surprising to me.
I feel like from my perspective anything I could say would be a shot in the dark, because I don't know what info scum has nor what info other towns may want/need. But since scum start with an information advantage, it seems more likely that scum will be able to use any information I offer than town. So that makes me think it is not helpful to talk about even though I'm curious and honestly kinda want to have the conversation later in the game / after the game.
-
So I very much agree with what iguana said. Also (and this is going to be the last in going to say on this because I think it is derailing actual scumhunting) I am most worried that what you want is to discuss what slots we think were taken earlier and what were taken later. I think everyone is going to have vastly more different opinions than you expect and I think discussing that will only give scum the knowledge of which players if they got a high draft spot would have picked dangerous powers. Add in the fact that as you said scum knows what they got. So if anyone says they value a slot scum has, scum knows they didn't get that slot and therefor that player most likely has a lower draft position and they don't need to nk them. I find it especially frustrating because you keep asserting 2-shot vig as the obvious number one power in the game, this is just asking for people to say know it would obviously be X and again then scum has that knowledge.
So yea I don't care if you respond, I think everyone if your town should just ignore any and all discussion about the setup for the rest of the day, in a game this large things are going to get out of hand, we need to cut the fluff as much as possible. I would also say if your town try really hard to read your post and if it doesn't have some real conclusions or opinions or reactions to just not post it. Every time a town player posts a fluff post it lets scum do the same, and scum want to post as much fluff as possible making the days unreadable.
-
In fact vote: O this will be removed depending on how you respond and continue to play. Currently I think you are smart enough to know everything I said and are using "it's day one and scumhunting is hard/unhelpful" to sabotage town. Because yes scumhunting day one is hard and much less helpful than scumhunting later days, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't try and that way if we get it wrong today, as we often do, we can at least gain something from the reactions people had to the wagons ect. ect.
-
I feel like it's all crazy talk here. I'm talking about just discussing the PRs out there and how the voting might have went and you're all going "massclaim bad" "we can't hunt PRs"
I'm not really proposing some revolutionary discussion, but the complete shutdown of discussion by most of the people here is really surprising to me.
I feel like from my perspective anything I could say would be a shot in the dark, because I don't know what info scum has nor what info other towns may want/need. But since scum start with an information advantage, it seems more likely that scum will be able to use any information I offer than town. So that makes me think it is not helpful to talk about even though I'm curious and honestly kinda want to have the conversation later in the game / after the game.
Vote: iguana
This is a nothing post, and it reeks of "oh I'm just town how could I possibly know anything?"
Literally everyone in the game can deduce some portion of what the scum team(s) know, as well as what town PRs might be interested in.
-
mcmc I find it interesting that you say
So I very much agree with what iguana said.
and then say this
I would also say if your town try really hard to read your post and if it doesn't have some real conclusions or opinions or reactions to just not post it. Every time a town player posts a fluff post it lets scum do the same, and scum want to post as much fluff as possible making the days unreadable.
Iguana's post struck me as the definition of fluff (including a useless reference to post-game conversation). What do you think?
-
also mcmc, why do you vote O and then remove all the teeth from that vote by talking about how you're likely to remove it?
-
Back to Vote: mcmc
-
also mcmc, why do you vote O and then remove all the teeth from that vote by talking about how you're likely to remove it?
Because I'm open to the possibility that O is going to change his behavior
-
mcmc I find it interesting that you say
So I very much agree with what iguana said.
and then say this
I would also say if your town try really hard to read your post and if it doesn't have some real conclusions or opinions or reactions to just not post it. Every time a town player posts a fluff post it lets scum do the same, and scum want to post as much fluff as possible making the days unreadable.
Iguana's post struck me as the definition of fluff (including a useless reference to post-game conversation). What do you think?
I specifically felt that iguana hit the nail on the head with
I feel like from my perspective anything I could say would be a shot in the dark, because I don't know what info scum has nor what info other towns may want/need. But since scum start with an information advantage, it seems more likely that scum will be able to use any information I offer than town. So that makes me think it is not helpful to talk about even though I'm curious and honestly kinda want to have the conversation later in the game / after the game.
The boldest point is exactly what I think ozzle was glossing over. He was saying scum has an informational advantage so we should discuss. But because they know there slots as I pointed out in my post, scum get way more out of knowing even the slots that town players value as strong.
-
also mcmc, why do you vote O and then remove all the teeth from that vote by talking about how you're likely to remove it?
Because I'm open to the possibility that O is going to change his behavior
How is that indicative of his alignment?
-
who is ozzle?
-
The purpose of my post was to get O to understand why everyone is against him. If that's fluff then, uh, woops.
-
Back to Vote: mcmc
I don't want to tunnel, I specifically remember a game where I found liopoil(someone I was scum with his first time) scummy early day one and I confirmation biased everything from them on and he turned out to be town.
But man this looks like you gave up pushing me because it wasn't going to work out for you(the votes didn't come for me and they stayed on you). Your reason for unvoting me was because I told people to write stuff down with is as you pointed out pro-town but not towny. Now I explain why setup speculation is really bad for town on day 1 which is also pro-town but not towny and you decide to vote me again.
Can you give me your reasoning for re voting me, like what exactly you found scummy about my recent posts?
-
also mcmc, why do you vote O and then remove all the teeth from that vote by talking about how you're likely to remove it?
Because I'm open to the possibility that O is going to change his behavior
How is that indicative of his alignment?
Because as pointed out early on, ozzle has a relatively stubborn personality. He also hasn't played in a long time and I think we have developed as players a lot since then. So there is a chance he's town legitimately wanting to talk about he setup because he thinks it's he best way for him to find scum. I'm voting him because currently I think he's scum trying to sabotage town.
-
I'm definitely not against O. I don't feel like he has been anti town, and he's been contributing stuff.
-
Eevee, 2.7, Gkrieg, Jim. What do you guys think about my recent thoughts on ozzle? Do you think he is pushing people to speculate so scum knows what townies may or may not have high draft slots. Or do you think he is just trying to find scum the best way he knows how?
-
I can't really say I'm going to change me behavior.
At the same time, so far the overwhelming majority of people have shown no interest in following my line so the discussion changes regardless.
Voting for me seems pretty townie tho, to insert my own pseudo-random bullshit reads into this. It wasn't necessary to stop the conversation since the conversation was pretty dead anyways regardless of my will, and so far a disturbingly large number of people have town reads on me so I'm a pretty bad wagon choice.
To spur conversation, which is kinda still lacking IMO despite complaints about having to read to much, I would be willing to lynch Awaclus, Faust, Gkrieg, Roadrunner, Ashersky, and Robz, for a variety of lurkish or distant behavior.
I would be unwilling to lynch TWM, LaLight, Sudgy, e, and probably not Cuzz, because those people have made interesting contributions to discussion/"scumhunting", or, in cuzz's case, sheer volume of conversation.
I'm not going to hide behind a pretense of "scummy" and "not scummy" when I haven't played with the vast majority of the people on that list. At best it's anti-town and pro-town, but more likely it's anti-fun and pro-fun
Part of the problem with these massive setups is that even this isn't good conversation starter since my opinions are really quite irrelevant at this point.
-
Eevee, 2.7, Gkrieg, Jim. What do you guys think about my recent thoughts on ozzle? Do you think he is pushing people to speculate so scum knows what townies may or may not have high draft slots. Or do you think he is just trying to find scum the best way he knows how?
Please do note that Ozle is an entirely different and far more wonderful human being than I.
-
To spur conversation, which is kinda still lacking IMO despite complaints about having to read to much, I would be willing to lynch Awaclus, Faust, Gkrieg, Roadrunner, Ashersky, and Robz, for a variety of lurkish or distant behavior.
This I can get behind.
-
Please do note that Ozle is an entirely different and far more wonderful human being than I.
Waaaait really...
-
I would be willing to lynch Robz
We may try that!
-
To spur conversation, which is kinda still lacking IMO despite complaints about having to read to much, I would be willing to lynch Awaclus, Faust, Gkrieg, Roadrunner, Ashersky, and Robz, for a variety of lurkish or distant behavior.
This I can get behind.
i don't get PPEs for some reason :(
-
I can't really get who's more scummier, mcmc or TWM
-
oh god
more scummy*
-
I always did enjoy the scene in Into The Woods where they break the fourth wall and kill the narrator.
Please do note that Ozle is an entirely different and far more wonderful human being than I.
Waaaait really...
Yea. He was a terrifying mafia player because regardless of alignment he always felt completely innocent child to me. Also for mafia VI he spent the whole day communicating in ridiculous flavor text, which pissed the hell out of all the other players but was hilarious to me, the mod :P
-
To spur conversation, which is kinda still lacking IMO despite complaints about having to read to much, I would be willing to lynch Awaclus, Faust, Gkrieg, Roadrunner, Ashersky, and Robz, for a variety of lurkish or distant behavior.
This I can get behind.
For serious, though, not sure I can get behind faust or gkrieg at the moment, at least not for lurking. Faust seemed to hang out here for a little bit and caught up on about 10 pages and gave some opinions. gkrieg has been involved too, though I sure don't have any kind of townread.
In my opinion, Space, Calamitas, Andrew, Jimmmmm, Dylan, Awaclus, ashersky are the lurkiest so far.
Calamitas and Dylan in particular I have the nothingest of nothing reads on.
-
I would be willing to lynch Robz
We may try that!
We are averaging a page an hour, stop this even though it's fun. I'm counting every post like this from now on as scummy seriously. You want a 60 page day 1 because this is how you get it.
Ppe 2: you've seen me as scum a lot, together and as a mod. Do you think I'm playing like then or like m96?
-
I would be willing to lynch Robz
We may try that!
We are averaging a page an hour, stop this even though it's fun. I'm counting every post like this from now on as scummy seriously. You want a 60 page day 1 because this is how you get it.
And everyone was biting my head off for not wanting to read the first 14 pages because I thought it was all fluff. But now gumming up the thread is scummy.
-
I would be willing to lynch Robz
We may try that!
We are averaging a page an hour, stop this even though it's fun. I'm counting every post like this from now on as scummy seriously. You want a 60 page day 1 because this is how you get it.
Ppe 2: you've seen me as scum a lot, together and as a mod. Do you think I'm playing like then or like m96?
You get it by having 23 players. Discouraging conversation is anti-town. If people have such a huge problem with a lot to read D1 they shouldn't have signed up for a 23 person game.
I already pointed out 7 people who are seriously lurking. Too much content is not our problem.
-
I would be willing to lynch Robz
We may try that!
We are averaging a page an hour, stop this even though it's fun. I'm counting every post like this from now on as scummy seriously. You want a 60 page day 1 because this is how you get it.
Ppe 2: you've seen me as scum a lot, together and as a mod. Do you think I'm playing like then or like m96?
Ok, boring guy. Well, to be serious, you're right.
I wouldn't take M96 into account, you were playing a whole different game there being a Virgin. (God it's hard, but I am not joking, not... joking...)
I mostly take your posts from this game independently of your meta, which is very explainable. You point me at meta => You are aware of your meta => You may imitate it well. I mostly wouldn't take meta arguments
PPE
-
I would be willing to lynch Robz
We may try that!
We are averaging a page an hour, stop this even though it's fun. I'm counting every post like this from now on as scummy seriously. You want a 60 page day 1 because this is how you get it.
Ppe 2: you've seen me as scum a lot, together and as a mod. Do you think I'm playing like then or like m96?
You see, there's the horrific problem with my mafia personality: I'm pro-fun before I'm pro-faction, which yes in this case is in fact town.
-
I would be willing to lynch Robz
We may try that!
We are averaging a page an hour, stop this even though it's fun. I'm counting every post like this from now on as scummy seriously. You want a 60 page day 1 because this is how you get it.
Ppe 2: you've seen me as scum a lot, together and as a mod. Do you think I'm playing like then or like m96?
You get it by having 23 players. Discouraging conversation is anti-town. If people have such a huge problem with a lot to read D1 they shouldn't have signed up for a 23 person game.
I already pointed out 7 people who are seriously lurking. Too much content is not our problem.
I don't agree with red one. If the whole post is a meaningless joke, it's bad. I mean, do we need to encourage a conversation about lynching Robz? O_o
PPE
-
I'm still perfectly happy with my vote on TWM.
Also as LaLight said, pointing out you're playing into your own town meta is unhelpful at best.
-
Lynching on the basis of lurking is retarded.
-
I'm still perfectly happy with my vote on TWM.
Also as LaLight said, pointing out you're playing into your own town meta is unhelpful at best.
I would happily go back to twm he didn't answer my question.
-
Vote Count 1.6
LaLight (1): SpaceAnemone,
mcmcsalot (3): 2.71828..., gkrieg, The_Wine_Merchant
2.71828 (2): AndrewisFTTW, Awaclus
ashersky (2): LaLight, iguanaiguana
Cuzz (1): Eevee
J Reggie (2): JaketheBaseballGod22, Galzria
The_Wine_Merchant (4): J Reggie, ashersky, Dylan32, sudgy
RoadRunner (1): O
sudgy (1): faust
O (1): mcmcsalot
iguanaiguana (1): Cuzz
Not Voting (4): Calamitas, pingpongsam, RoadRunner, Jimmmm,
With 23 alive it takes just 10 to lynch. Day 1 ends on Tuesday, May 23, at 10:00 AM Forum Time.
-
Lynching on the basis of lurking is retarded.
I was under the impression that there was a civility pledge in this community. If I am mistaken about that let me know now and I'll replace out.
-
Space, lalaight, and iguana will you do a reread of just twm and if you want me as well and then post your conclusions. I find all of you towny, and I find all of your votes in bad places.
On the other hand space if you would like to do a lalight reread and explain why you find him scummy I'll take that as well.
Eevee, jimm, 2.7, Gkrieg, still want you to weigh in on O (whose not ozzle, so I know less about him then I thought)
-
Lynching on the basis of lurking is retarded.
Vote:Awaclus
really all the confirmation I needed that Awaclus's mafia persona is a edgier version of my 16 year old self's.
Lynching on the basis of rude, unhelpful one-liners surely won't be some exceedingly pro-town strategy, but I've already stated I put pro-fun before pro-town so at least I'm consistent.
-
I can't really get who's more scummier, mcmc or TWM
mcmc hasn't struck me as scummy at all even once. in fact, all the suggestions that he might be are striking me as scummy.
TWM, meh, null. i don't have any issues with people calling him scummy.
-
Vote: Awaclus
damn vote formats.
-
The purpose of my post was to get O to understand why everyone is against him. If that's fluff then, uh, woops.
maybe, but i do agree with the initial assessment of your insertion.
-
Space, lalaight, and iguana will you do a reread of just twm and if you want me as well and then post your conclusions. I find all of you towny, and I find all of your votes in bad places.
On the other hand space if you would like to do a lalight reread and explain why you find him scummy I'll take that as well.
Eevee, jimm, 2.7, Gkrieg, still want you to weigh in on O (whose not ozzle, so I know less about him then I thought)
I find O to be a very useful pro-town player right now and would greatly object to lynching him today.
I am interested in your list of players you asked for opinions. 2 on your wagon, and two not-as-active players. Why us four?
-
Back to Vote: mcmc
I don't want to tunnel, I specifically remember a game where I found liopoil(someone I was scum with his first time) scummy early day one and I confirmation biased everything from them on and he turned out to be town.
But man this looks like you gave up pushing me because it wasn't going to work out for you(the votes didn't come for me and they stayed on you). Your reason for unvoting me was because I told people to write stuff down with is as you pointed out pro-town but not towny. Now I explain why setup speculation is really bad for town on day 1 which is also pro-town but not towny and you decide to vote me again.
Can you give me your reasoning for re voting me, like what exactly you found scummy about my recent posts?
I have confirmation bias and everything you are doing is scummy to me.
-
Lynching on the basis of rude, unhelpful one-liners surely won't be some exceedingly pro-town strategy, but I've already stated I put pro-fun before pro-town so at least I'm consistent.
Why are you playing the game if you're not even trying to win?
-
But that doesn't mean I am wrong and I am trying to be aware of my bias.
-
Lynching on the basis of lurking is retarded.
I was under the impression that there was a civility pledge in this community. If I am mistaken about that let me know now and I'll replace out.
Are you just triggered by the use of that word or are you seriously offended by the assertion that lynching lurkers D1 in a 20+ person game is really low on the scale of effective strategies?
If the former, I'm not seeing it as a violation of the pledge until you ask for that to stop and it continues, if the latter, I'm not seeing as a violation of the pledge ever.
-
Lynching on the basis of rude, unhelpful one-liners surely won't be some exceedingly pro-town strategy, but I've already stated I put pro-fun before pro-town so at least I'm consistent.
Why are you playing the game if you're not even trying to win?
I'm pretty sure I answered that twice, to have fun. Please do try and keep up. Winning is a primary vehicle to that objective but not the only one and not always a necessary one.
Mafia is a social party game, if I wanted to play purely for competition I'd play dominion or chess.
-
I'm pretty sure I answered that twice, to have fun.
So your fun is more important than the fun of 22 other people who joined up for the game? Fucking hell.
-
Lynching on the basis of rude, unhelpful one-liners surely won't be some exceedingly pro-town strategy, but I've already stated I put pro-fun before pro-town so at least I'm consistent.
Why are you playing the game if you're not even trying to win?
I'm pretty sure I answered that twice, to have fun. Please do try and keep up. Winning is a primary vehicle to that objective but not the only one and not always a necessary one.
Mafia is a social party game, if I wanted to play purely for competition I'd play dominion or chess.
See, this is where O and I are very much of the same mind.
-
I'm pretty sure I answered that twice, to have fun.
So your fun is more important than the fun of 22 other people who joined up for the game? Fucking hell.
No, I'm quite confident everyone but you would have more fun in this game if you were more pleasant.
I'm actually the one here prioritizing the fun of 22 people here.
-
I'm actually the one here prioritizing the fun of 22 people here.
By joining up for games and purposefully not playing properly. Right.
-
I'm pretty sure I answered that twice, to have fun.
So your fun is more important than the fun of 22 other people who joined up for the game? Fucking hell.
My fun and the fun of hopefully the majority of mafia players and people who play games in general is more important than the fun of one person who only cares about winning at all costs no matter whose feelings he hurts or what damage he causes. Seriously, if you're only playing to win and not to have fun doing it, what are you really doing?
-
I'm pretty sure I answered that twice, to have fun.
So your fun is more important than the fun of 22 other people who joined up for the game? Fucking hell.
I am having way more fun with O than I have had with others. So please leave me off your list of 22 people. Thanks.
-
vote: Awaclus
-
My fun and the fun of hopefully the majority of mafia players and people who play games in general is more important than the fun of one person who only cares about winning at all costs no matter whose feelings he hurts or what damage he causes. Seriously, if you're only playing to win and not to have fun doing it, what are you really doing?
If you're not playing to win, you're pulling off a reinoe.
-
I'm actually the one here prioritizing the fun of 22 people here.
By joining up for games and purposefully not playing properly. Right.
We have differing definitions of properly. Using this board to get your rocks off in some overly aggressive, overly personal debating style is not proper in my opinion. That's what Reddit is for or something.
Unless you can get some consensus here I have no clue why I should accept your view of what is proper.
-
Unless you can get some consensus here I have no clue why I should accept your view of what is proper.
Trying to win is proper because that way you don't ruin the game for everyone else.
-
Unless you can get some consensus here I have no clue why I should accept your view of what is proper.
Trying to win is proper because that way you don't ruin the game for everyone else.
I certainly am trying to win. And I certainly don't think I'm ruining the game for everyone else. So far I'm definitely not ruining it for me, TWM, J Reggie and probably Cuzz. I appear to be ruining it for you. I apologize, but at the same time I admittedly don't care enough to change anything about that.
-
Lynching on the basis of lurking is retarded.
I was under the impression that there was a civility pledge in this community. If I am mistaken about that let me know now and I'll replace out.
Are you just triggered by the use of that word or are you seriously offended by the assertion that lynching lurkers D1 in a 20+ person game is really low on the scale of effective strategies?
If the former, I'm not seeing it as a violation of the pledge until you ask for that to stop and it continues, if the latter, I'm not seeing as a violation of the pledge ever.
I find that word inherently uncivil. This is not RSP though and I will not participate in a discussion adjudicating that position.
-
I certainly am trying to win.
Then you must be not town. Vote: O
-
My fun and the fun of hopefully the majority of mafia players and people who play games in general is more important than the fun of one person who only cares about winning at all costs no matter whose feelings he hurts or what damage he causes. Seriously, if you're only playing to win and not to have fun doing it, what are you really doing?
If you're not playing to win, you're pulling off a reinoe.
I think I'm done with this conversation. Let me know when we get back to scumhunting.
-
I certainly am trying to win.
Then you must be not town. Vote: O
Prediction. This vote will not move for the rest of the day.
-
I certainly am trying to win.
Then you must be not town. Vote: O
Prediction. This vote will not move for the rest of the day.
I mean, it's possible we get better evidence against someone else, but that would be highly unusual, given that O has openly admitted that he's trying to win by not playing to town's best interests.
-
I find O to be a very useful pro-town player right now and would greatly object to lynching him today.
I am interested in your list of players you asked for opinions. 2 on your wagon, and two not-as-active players. Why us four?
Well jimm and eevee I wanted to give them something to re-assert themselves in the game and I was under the impression o was ozzle who eevee and jimm I think are good at reading. Same still goes a little for O since they actually played with him(at least eevee did) and then I wanted you and gkriegs opinions because I find you towny and value both your opinions. Also the fact that you two are voting for me gives more credibility to other townies who might worry I'm just calling in scumbuddies to confirm a narrative I've created for O.
Ppe:8
-
I find that word inherently uncivil. This is not RSP though and I will not participate in a discussion adjudicating that position.
I second this sentiment
Surely I'm especially sensitive here because came into this thread specifically trying hard to avoid anything remotely similar to Awaclus's behavior, because I think it harmed previous mafia games. So for that I'll just come out and apologize I guess, 5 years later, most specifically to Galzria who I was the largest dick to.
I certainly am trying to win.
Then you must be not town. Vote: O
You see I've done this before and the problem is it's circular logic. When I eventually flip town sometime later this game, you're going to fall back on the "O is just a shitty mafia player" paradigm instead of considering the possibility that you were wrong. It's really a vicious circle of confirmation bias.
-
But that doesn't mean I am wrong and I am trying to be aware of my bias.
So do you think you really only unvoted me because you didn't want to be too biased and then I continued to do things you found scummy so you decided to go back? That still doesn't let me know why while struggling to be unbiased you found my "take notes" pro town enough to invite but my "don't talk about the setup" as scummy.
-
When I eventually flip town sometime later this game
Nah, that's not going to happen.
-
I think I will join the
vote: TWM
wagon. It seems like a fun place to be.
-
I certainly am trying to win.
Then you must be not town. Vote: O
Prediction. This vote will not move for the rest of the day.
I mean, it's possible we get better evidence against someone else, but that would be highly unusual, given that O has openly admitted that he's trying to win by not playing to town's best interests.
He's openly admitted that he's trying to win, and have fun at the same time. Strange concept, I know.
This is a terrible vote. And a ridiculous conversation. Everybody should be playing both to win and have fun.
-
He's openly admitted that he's trying to win, and have fun at the same time.
And have town not win at the same time.
Lynching on the basis of rude, unhelpful one-liners surely won't be some exceedingly pro-town strategy
I certainly am trying to win.
-
I think I will join the
vote: TWM
wagon. It seems like a fun place to be.
Got more than that?
Actually, mcmc, since you seem to be the biggest driver for this wagon, would you (and others feel free to chip in please) explain in detail your case/reasoning for voting TWM?
The primary thing I saw against him was that he talked about mass claim for awhile, and then changed his mind to be against it. This reads townie uncertainty to me more than mafia obfuscation. But if there's more I've missed I would like to know.
-
I think I will join the
vote: TWM
wagon. It seems like a fun place to be.
Got more than that?
Actually, mcmc, since you seem to be the biggest driver for this wagon, would you (and others feel free to chip in please) explain in detail your case/reasoning for voting TWM?
The primary thing I saw against him was that he talked about mass claim for awhile, and then changed his mind to be against it. This reads townie uncertainty to me more than mafia obfuscation. But if there's more I've missed I would like to know.
Isn't Mcmcmc wagoning me right now?
-
I think I will join the
vote: TWM
wagon. It seems like a fun place to be.
Got more than that?
Actually, mcmc, since you seem to be the biggest driver for this wagon, would you (and others feel free to chip in please) explain in detail your case/reasoning for voting TWM?
The primary thing I saw against him was that he talked about mass claim for awhile, and then changed his mind to be against it. This reads townie uncertainty to me more than mafia obfuscation. But if there's more I've missed I would like to know.
Isn't Mcmcmc wagoning me right now?
he is voting for you right now.
-
frankly the TWM wagon is incomprehensible to me.
-
I think I will join the
vote: TWM
wagon. It seems like a fun place to be.
Got more than that?
Actually, mcmc, since you seem to be the biggest driver for this wagon, would you (and others feel free to chip in please) explain in detail your case/reasoning for voting TWM?
The primary thing I saw against him was that he talked about mass claim for awhile, and then changed his mind to be against it. This reads townie uncertainty to me more than mafia obfuscation. But if there's more I've missed I would like to know.
Isn't Mcmcmc wagoning me right now?
Yes I'm voting you and I want to know what the other people I asked about you think. I'll admit I liked your response to my post about you and have lessened my scum read on you. Twm on the other hand has not been responding in a tonwy way.
vote: twm
-
He's openly admitted that he's trying to win, and have fun at the same time.
And have town not win at the same time.
Lynching on the basis of rude, unhelpful one-liners surely won't be some exceedingly pro-town strategy
I certainly am trying to win.
He's saying he's voting you for being anti-fun, and that it "surely won't be some exceedingly pro-town strategy" --- In the same way that voting someone who is being anti-town (RR's "I'm not reading all this") "surely won't be some exceedingly pro-town strategy" - as neither are exceedingly likely to find scum.
At least that's my take.
-
frankly the TWM wagon is incomprehensible to me.
Ugh at work it's hard to formulate the proper case but I understand things have moved quickly. I'll post it in a bit. Or if galz wants to just go through my last few posts and see what I said about twm. My case has nothing to do with going back and forth about massclaiming.
-
That would be the accurate interpretation, yes.
-
I think I will join the
vote: TWM
wagon. It seems like a fun place to be.
Got more than that?
Actually, mcmc, since you seem to be the biggest driver for this wagon, would you (and others feel free to chip in please) explain in detail your case/reasoning for voting TWM?
The primary thing I saw against him was that he talked about mass claim for awhile, and then changed his mind to be against it. This reads townie uncertainty to me more than mafia obfuscation. But if there's more I've missed I would like to know.
Isn't Mcmcmc wagoning me right now?
Yes I'm voting you and I want to know what the other people I asked about you think. I'll admit I liked your response to my post about you and have lessened my scum read on you. Twm on the other hand has not been responding in a tonwy way.
vote: twm
mcmc, if you're town I don't think the whole "Vote O until he says something that pleases me at which point I'll move along" is helpful.
-
frankly the TWM wagon is incomprehensible to me.
Ugh at work it's hard to formulate the proper case but I understand things have moved quickly. I'll post it in a bit. Or if galz wants to just go through my last few posts and see what I said about twm. My case has nothing to do with going back and forth about massclaiming.
me, I just joined because wagons are fun. The first real wagon! 6 players and counting!
-
Cuzz when you flip scum you're gonna super bone me you know.
-
He's openly admitted that he's trying to win, and have fun at the same time.
And have town not win at the same time.
Lynching on the basis of rude, unhelpful one-liners surely won't be some exceedingly pro-town strategy
I certainly am trying to win.
He's saying he's voting you for being anti-fun, and that it "surely won't be some exceedingly pro-town strategy" --- In the same way that voting someone who is being anti-town (RR's "I'm not reading all this") "surely won't be some exceedingly pro-town strategy" - as neither are exceedingly likely to find scum.
At least that's my take.
I agree. And if someone knows of a D1 strategy that is "exceedingly likely to find scum" please do tell.
-
Cuzz when you flip scum you're gonna super bone me you know.
this is the first scummy thing O has posted
-
@mcmc... the difference between what I said and what TWM said in response to your suspicions didn't feel that different except I found you not scummy and he found you "scummy, but with confirmation bias".
Are you sure you're not just OMGUSing a bit?
-
Slowly catching up. Gonna respond to various things as I see them.
Not reading a bunch of fluff might be anti fun, and it could even be anti town. My point is that posting a lot of stuff, regardless of what that stuff is, is scummy because gumming up the thread is an easy tactic to use here, and it's fairly effective.
This is so empirically anti-town I want us to lynch RR now.
You will hit an anti-town player, but I don't think you'll be hitting scum.
It's D1 and we're not likely going to lynch scum anyway. Lynching confirmed anti-town is worlds better than lynching a pro-town townie who just happened to get a wagon on them for nebulous "scumminess"
Scummy ^^
^I agree.
This seems like scummy TWM, which means that he is town. Just like look at his newbie game. He has a CRAZY different tone when he is scum compared to town.
Everyone brings up newbie mafia twm what about the game me and him were mafia together. I think this looks a hell of a lot like scum twm.
^I disagree.
-
Cuzz when you flip scum you're gonna super bone me you know.
this is the first scummy thing O has posted
If you want I can go and quote all the time's I've said something similar and it turned out to be true and I was scum breadcrumbing for lulz. Not the case here though.
-
I can't really say I'm going to change me behavior.
At the same time, so far the overwhelming majority of people have shown no interest in following my line so the discussion changes regardless.
Voting for me seems pretty townie tho, to insert my own pseudo-random bullshit reads into this. It wasn't necessary to stop the conversation since the conversation was pretty dead anyways regardless of my will, and so far a disturbingly large number of people have town reads on me so I'm a pretty bad wagon choice.
To spur conversation, which is kinda still lacking IMO despite complaints about having to read to much, I would be willing to lynch Awaclus, Faust, Gkrieg, Roadrunner, Ashersky, and Robz, for a variety of lurkish or distant behavior.
I would be unwilling to lynch TWM, LaLight, Sudgy, e, and probably not Cuzz, because those people have made interesting contributions to discussion/"scumhunting", or, in cuzz's case, sheer volume of conversation.
I'm not going to hide behind a pretense of "scummy" and "not scummy" when I haven't played with the vast majority of the people on that list. At best it's anti-town and pro-town, but more likely it's anti-fun and pro-fun
Part of the problem with these massive setups is that even this isn't good conversation starter since my opinions are really quite irrelevant at this point.
Uh, how have I been lurkish?
-
So I very much agree with what iguana said. Also (and this is going to be the last in going to say on this because I think it is derailing actual scumhunting) I am most worried that what you want is to discuss what slots we think were taken earlier and what were taken later. I think everyone is going to have vastly more different opinions than you expect and I think discussing that will only give scum the knowledge of which players if they got a high draft spot would have picked dangerous powers. Add in the fact that as you said scum knows what they got. So if anyone says they value a slot scum has, scum knows they didn't get that slot and therefor that player most likely has a lower draft position and they don't need to nk them. I find it especially frustrating because you keep asserting 2-shot vig as the obvious number one power in the game, this is just asking for people to say know it would obviously be X and again then scum has that knowledge.
So yea I don't care if you respond, I think everyone if your town should just ignore any and all discussion about the setup for the rest of the day, in a game this large things are going to get out of hand, we need to cut the fluff as much as possible. I would also say if your town try really hard to read your post and if it doesn't have some real conclusions or opinions or reactions to just not post it. Every time a town player posts a fluff post it lets scum do the same, and scum want to post as much fluff as possible making the days unreadable.
I couldn't agree more
PPE: 3 pages (though not classical PPE but just not read them)
-
@Gkrieg I actually just found you scummy but I'm not the type to give each different person a paragraph.
@ E I found my favorite:
@O: If you bus your scumbuddy frisk today we can let you be the last alive of your scumteam.
I'm too busy bussing Robz, but you're too strongheaded to notice.
-
Cuzz when you flip scum you're gonna super bone me you know.
this is the first scummy thing O has posted
If you want I can go and quote all the time's I've said something similar and it turned out to be true and I was scum breadcrumbing for lulz. Not the case here though.
So you openly admit your post is scummy in a very self-aware fashion. Basically playing devil's advocate against yourself. I absolutely love it.
All this to say, O is my strongest town read right now.
-
Not reading a bunch of fluff might be anti fun, and it could even be anti town. My point is that posting a lot of stuff, regardless of what that stuff is, is scummy because gumming up the thread is an easy tactic to use here, and it's fairly effective.
This is so empirically anti-town I want us to lynch RR now.
You will hit an anti-town player, but I don't think you'll be hitting scum.
It's D1 and we're not likely going to lynch scum anyway. Lynching confirmed anti-town is worlds better than lynching a pro-town townie who just happened to get a wagon on them for nebulous "scumminess"
Towny^^
Why? He is essentially saying we should lynch people who aren't helpful instead of lynching scum. We still have a pretty good chance of hitting scum. And either way, it at least makes people choose sides. It isn't scummy or townie to try to lynch anti-town people. It just is. Which isn't helpful D1.
False.
Well we definitely have a better chance of lynching scum if we try to lynch scum instead of trying not to...
Part of a series of scummy posts from gkrieg. Not going to vote now because I don't know what the current vote count is. But at page 18 or so gkrieg just seems to be trying very hard to seem pro-town and such.
-
I would be willing to lynch Robz
We may try that!
We are averaging a page an hour, stop this even though it's fun. I'm counting every post like this from now on as scummy seriously. You want a 60 page day 1 because this is how you get it.
Ppe 2: you've seen me as scum a lot, together and as a mod. Do you think I'm playing like then or like m96?
I don't think obsessing over this is going to help anything. Like I said before it is better to have people talk than have some weird posting restriction where people need to watch what they say. Mostly people will just reread certain people instead of the whole day.
-
I've reread mcmc/TWM interaction on mcmc side.
That's how he joined the wagon
Innocent Child? We don't appear to have one? How worried should we be about mafia with a 2-shot vig?
vote: twm
Sheep vote:twm
This is how he justifies his sheepvote
This seems like scummy TWM, which means that he is town. Just like look at his newbie game. He has a CRAZY different tone when he is scum compared to town.
Everyone brings up newbie mafia twm what about the game me and him were mafia together. I think this looks a hell of a lot like scum twm.
More justifying existing wagon to not look bad for jumping on it. The reasoning is weak
This seems like scummy TWM, which means that he is town. Just like look at his newbie game. He has a CRAZY different tone when he is scum compared to town.
Everyone brings up newbie mafia twm what about the game me and him were mafia together. I think this looks a hell of a lot like scum twm.
How does it look like scum TWM?
I think scum twm tries to kick do some semi aggressive scumhunting which he appeared to try to do(can't grab quotes at work) and especially the post he made calling jreggie scummy for referring to his own vote as serious. It was taking a small thing and calling it "suspicious" which isn't outright calling him scummy so hopefully other townies flood behind twm and start voting jreggie.
This is something very strange. You see read on TWM legit and question other townreads? Why in the world?
People off today's lynch menu so far:
TWM
LaLight
RR
iguana
Will try to keep this list updated through D1. I probably won't bother to take anyone off given the size of this game.
I like this as a plan fully but I hate your list of people. Why don't things ever work for us.
Like I actually see validity in your twm read which makes me sad, but are lalight, iguana, and rr there?
Then I guess I will jump off the wagon to not be on this wagon again
In fact vote: O this will be removed depending on how you respond and continue to play. Currently I think you are smart enough to know everything I said and are using "it's day one and scumhunting is hard/unhelpful" to sabotage town. Because yes scumhunting day one is hard and much less helpful than scumhunting later days, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't try and that way if we get it wrong today, as we often do, we can at least gain something from the reactions people had to the wagons ect. ect.
And then he returned to TWM after being called for voting O with weird justifying "he didn't answer my question".
vote: mcmc. looks like you caught yourself in the trap.
PPE: 4564651657654684
-
I'm confused. I would definitely be fown to lynching RR, mcmc or ash at this point of the game. Cuzz is hard to read, all those guys looking like ICs who are scum in the end, I don't believe my initial townreads in the game. Nothing else at this point
Uhhh... "ICs who are scum in the end?" Whaaa?
-
And if someone knows of a D1 strategy that is "exceedingly likely to find scum" please do tell.
Lynching the guy who's trying to win by doing anti-town things on purpose is exceedingly likely to find scum.
-
Space, lalaight, and iguana will you do a reread of just twm and if you want me as well and then post your conclusions. I find all of you towny, and I find all of your votes in bad places.
On the other hand space if you would like to do a lalight reread and explain why you find him scummy I'll take that as well.
Eevee, jimm, 2.7, Gkrieg, still want you to weigh in on O (whose not ozzle, so I know less about him then I thought)
His tone seems townie, but he hasn't really done much this game besides try to talk about theory stuff, which is easy to do as either alignment.
-
@LaLight why would scum try and wagon me at all though. I've had so many people call me townie/pro-town that it's actually kinda weird and suspicious, doesn't feel like a great place for scum to start a wagon.
-
All this to say, O is my strongest town read right now.
So you're his scum partner.
-
Space, lalaight, and iguana will you do a reread of just twm and if you want me as well and then post your conclusions. I find all of you towny, and I find all of your votes in bad places.
On the other hand space if you would like to do a lalight reread and explain why you find him scummy I'll take that as well.
Eevee, jimm, 2.7, Gkrieg, still want you to weigh in on O (whose not ozzle, so I know less about him then I thought)
I find O to be a very useful pro-town player right now and would greatly object to lynching him today.
I am interested in your list of players you asked for opinions. 2 on your wagon, and two not-as-active players. Why us four?
This is a good description of how I feel towards O
-
I'm confused. I would definitely be fown to lynching RR, mcmc or ash at this point of the game. Cuzz is hard to read, all those guys looking like ICs who are scum in the end, I don't believe my initial townreads in the game. Nothing else at this point
Uhhh... "ICs who are scum in the end?" Whaaa?
no. They look like IC. They are scum in the end.
-
Unless you can get some consensus here I have no clue why I should accept your view of what is proper.
Trying to win is proper because that way you don't ruin the game for everyone else.
This is town!Awaclus. He just became my highest town read actually.
-
@LaLight why would scum try and wagon me at all though. I've had so many people call me townie/pro-town that it's actually kinda weird and suspicious, doesn't feel like a great place for scum to start a wagon.
Well, people here may justify scumread on you based on some of your posts. Look at Awaclus for one. I'd call it "easy wagon". Because any of us actually may reread you and call you scummy afterwards, but thing is that overall you're very townie and any townie understands that but out of context you may seem very scummy
PPE: 1
-
So I very much agree with what iguana said. Also (and this is going to be the last in going to say on this because I think it is derailing actual scumhunting) I am most worried that what you want is to discuss what slots we think were taken earlier and what were taken later. I think everyone is going to have vastly more different opinions than you expect and I think discussing that will only give scum the knowledge of which players if they got a high draft spot would have picked dangerous powers. Add in the fact that as you said scum knows what they got. So if anyone says they value a slot scum has, scum knows they didn't get that slot and therefor that player most likely has a lower draft position and they don't need to nk them. I find it especially frustrating because you keep asserting 2-shot vig as the obvious number one power in the game, this is just asking for people to say know it would obviously be X and again then scum has that knowledge.
So yea I don't care if you respond, I think everyone if your town should just ignore any and all discussion about the setup for the rest of the day, in a game this large things are going to get out of hand, we need to cut the fluff as much as possible. I would also say if your town try really hard to read your post and if it doesn't have some real conclusions or opinions or reactions to just not post it. Every time a town player posts a fluff post it lets scum do the same, and scum want to post as much fluff as possible making the days unreadable.
This is really scummy to me. Vote: Mcmc
In fact vote: O this will be removed depending on how you respond and continue to play. Currently I think you are smart enough to know everything I said and are using "it's day one and scumhunting is hard/unhelpful" to sabotage town. Because yes scumhunting day one is hard and much less helpful than scumhunting later days, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't try and that way if we get it wrong today, as we often do, we can at least gain something from the reactions people had to the wagons ect. ect.
So is this. The contradictions are very weird as well.
-
What? You guys are crazy. Catching up now.
Or you are just scummy. LALL.
C'mon man, it's been 6 hours. People have jobs and whatnot.
I was clearly joking.
town!ash doesn't crack jokes. Scummy.
I'm confused. I would definitely be fown to lynching RR, mcmc or ash at this point of the game. Cuzz is hard to read, all those guys looking like ICs who are scum in the end, I don't believe my initial townreads in the game. Nothing else at this point
Uhhh... "ICs who are scum in the end?" Whaaa?
no. They look like IC. They are scum in the end.
How does one look like an IC? And you think all four of those people are scum?
-
Unless you can get some consensus here I have no clue why I should accept your view of what is proper.
Trying to win is proper because that way you don't ruin the game for everyone else.
This is town!Awaclus. He just became my highest town read actually.
I agree that this is a TvT spat.
-
This gkrieg is the "ask single questions in response to posts about me as if I were faust" gkrieg. So, in a word, scum.
I don't believe I do that as scum. It's better than the absent gkrieg.
At least you aren't contesting the observation.
I don't know that you've done it on purpose as scum. I do believe that you believe that when faust does it, he's towny. And that you've internalized the notion of that action equaling townies, and that it could subconsciously affect your play.
I do think that it is townie when faust does it. I also think that is because it gets information out of people that they otherwise can hide. I think asking questions gives more chance of people slipping up than not asking questions. It also just depends on the mood I'm in that day.
Sounds like scum trying to pass this off as just another towny day for gkrieg. Nothing to see here. Move along.
-
@LaLight
Are you honestly saying Awaclus is voting for me because he finds me scummy? Let's call a spade a spade here, it's what he would want anyways.
-
Space, lalaight, and iguana will you do a reread of just twm and if you want me as well and then post your conclusions. I find all of you towny, and I find all of your votes in bad places.
On the other hand space if you would like to do a lalight reread and explain why you find him scummy I'll take that as well.
Eevee, jimm, 2.7, Gkrieg, still want you to weigh in on O (whose not ozzle, so I know less about him then I thought)
My LL vote was RVS. But even if it wasn't, the beauty of it being my vote is that you don't get a say in how valid it is. I also get alarm bells when players try to police others' play quite that much.
I'll have more time for reading later.. I'm at work from about 5am-2pm+ forum time, and in general this week that means being too busy to keep up with the thread during work hours, except maybe on a lunch break. Sorry if that's annoying for people :-(
Huh. PPE 61... that's what I get for trying to respond from work.
-
I finally caught up! (during my chemistry class, hope that won't bite me in the butt)
Anyway, Vote: The_Wine_Merchant. I don't like some of his setup speculation at the beginning. I feel like he was trying to breadcrumb too much in it all (for possible fakeclaims in the future), and I feel like he's been reacting to the votes in a scummy way. It feels like scum feeling caught for the wrong reasons.
I think the way TWM is reacting to votes is pretty towny.
-
But that doesn't mean I am wrong and I am trying to be aware of my bias.
So do you think you really only unvoted me because you didn't want to be too biased and then I continued to do things you found scummy so you decided to go back? That still doesn't let me know why while struggling to be unbiased you found my "take notes" pro town enough to invite but my "don't talk about the setup" as scummy.
I didn't really find you scummy for not wanting to talk about the setup. I found you scummy for the way you voted for O.
-
What? You guys are crazy. Catching up now.
Or you are just scummy. LALL.
C'mon man, it's been 6 hours. People have jobs and whatnot.
I was clearly joking.
town!ash doesn't crack jokes. Scummy.
I'm confused. I would definitely be fown to lynching RR, mcmc or ash at this point of the game. Cuzz is hard to read, all those guys looking like ICs who are scum in the end, I don't believe my initial townreads in the game. Nothing else at this point
Uhhh... "ICs who are scum in the end?" Whaaa?
no. They look like IC. They are scum in the end.
How does one look like an IC? And you think all four of those people are scum?
No, no, no.
Let's go point by point.
1) That's what I call "look like IC": You're active in townie way and lead the town and 90% of players townread you.
2) "Cuzz is hard to read, all those guys looking like ICs who are scum in the end" - I meant only Cuzz concerning this game, not all 4 people. "All those guys" is because there were many games where faust did the same thing, or Robz.
3) I don't necessarily think he is scum, it's just I an always wary about such players and I don't let myself be blinded by their activeness and towniness.
PPE: 5
PPE: 1 while typing "PPE: 5"
-
Not reading a bunch of fluff might be anti fun, and it could even be anti town. My point is that posting a lot of stuff, regardless of what that stuff is, is scummy because gumming up the thread is an easy tactic to use here, and it's fairly effective.
This is so empirically anti-town I want us to lynch RR now.
You will hit an anti-town player, but I don't think you'll be hitting scum.
It's D1 and we're not likely going to lynch scum anyway. Lynching confirmed anti-town is worlds better than lynching a pro-town townie who just happened to get a wagon on them for nebulous "scumminess"
Towny^^
Why? He is essentially saying we should lynch people who aren't helpful instead of lynching scum. We still have a pretty good chance of hitting scum. And either way, it at least makes people choose sides. It isn't scummy or townie to try to lynch anti-town people. It just is. Which isn't helpful D1.
False.
Well we definitely have a better chance of lynching scum if we try to lynch scum instead of trying not to...
Part of a series of scummy posts from gkrieg. Not going to vote now because I don't know what the current vote count is. But at page 18 or so gkrieg just seems to be trying very hard to seem pro-town and such.
What would I do differently as town?
-
I'm immediately suspicious of those who are all like, "I'm totally down with lynching so and so today", as if we have progressed far enough to feel real good about them being scum or, better yet, that flipping them will corner scum.
Unfortunately, that's a wide pool of laziness so I can't draw any meaningful conclusions from it.
Now, for Andrew, please tell me, in your own words, why you think I should think you are town this game and not badass scum coming to getcha like every other game in recent memory?
Because in no game ever am I badass scum, I just got lucky for a couple games.
-
The primary thing I saw against him was that he talked about mass claim for awhile, and then changed his mind to be against it. This reads townie uncertainty to me more than mafia obfuscation. But if there's more I've missed I would like to know.
And I never actually did that. I was always saying that we should talk about how to effectively use roles. I have never said or even implied that we should do a mass claim. So there wasn't any mind changing. It was people giving false impressions of me and then me combating them to set the record straight, but people would rather believe what others say about me than what I say about myself.
-
@LaLight
Are you honestly saying Awaclus is voting for me because he finds me scummy? Let's call a spade a spade here, it's what he would want anyways.
He sincerely 100% believes you're scum at this point unless he is scum himself (maybe even in this case). It's Awaclus' style.
PPE: 1
-
frankly the TWM wagon is incomprehensible to me.
And yours to me.
-
Request vote count
-
I want to tunnel Gkrieg as he's been seemingly the hardest hunting early on, which i think is a scumread.
It's a good point, especially for gkrieg. He usually takes a while to get going as town.
This game has already been pretty involved up to this point. Usually it takes me a while to get going because I have other games, or I'm a VT so I've only posted /in and /confirm. This game already had me post a bunch of stuff in my QT.
Who else is in your QT?
-
Stuff
How does one look like an IC? And you think all four of those people are scum?
No, no, no.
Let's go point by point.
1) That's what I call "look like IC": You're active in townie way and lead the town and 90% of players townread you.
2) "Cuzz is hard to read, all those guys looking like ICs who are scum in the end" - I meant only Cuzz concerning this game, not all 4 people. "All those guys" is because there were many games where faust did the same thing, or Robz.
3) I don't necessarily think he is scum, it's just I an always wary about such players and I don't let myself be blinded by their activeness and towniness.
PPE: 5
PPE: 1 while typing "PPE: 5"
This seems pretty straightforward and Andrew's bafflement strikes me as incredibly disingenuous.
-
This gkrieg is the "ask single questions in response to posts about me as if I were faust" gkrieg. So, in a word, scum.
I don't believe I do that as scum. It's better than the absent gkrieg.
At least you aren't contesting the observation.
I don't know that you've done it on purpose as scum. I do believe that you believe that when faust does it, he's towny. And that you've internalized the notion of that action equaling townies, and that it could subconsciously affect your play.
I do think that it is townie when faust does it. I also think that is because it gets information out of people that they otherwise can hide. I think asking questions gives more chance of people slipping up than not asking questions. It also just depends on the mood I'm in that day.
Sounds like scum trying to pass this off as just another towny day for gkrieg. Nothing to see here. Move along.
I'm not sure what you mean here.
-
@LaLight
Are you honestly saying Awaclus is voting for me because he finds me scummy? Let's call a spade a spade here, it's what he would want anyways.
He sincerely 100% believes you're scum at this point unless he is scum himself (maybe even in this case). It's Awaclus' style.
PPE: 1
I accept that you've played with him more but I still strongly disagree with your read of him as a person, using my own similar past actions as a reference.
-
also can we wagon me or something? IDK how the hell i've seemed to gain near-innocent child status among like a third of the active posters. Usually I nearly get lynched day one, the wagon fails, and then I get nightkilled night 1 or 2 to make up for it.
-
I want to tunnel Gkrieg as he's been seemingly the hardest hunting early on, which i think is a scumread.
It's a good point, especially for gkrieg. He usually takes a while to get going as town.
This game has already been pretty involved up to this point. Usually it takes me a while to get going because I have other games, or I'm a VT so I've only posted /in and /confirm. This game already had me post a bunch of stuff in my QT.
Who else is in your QT?
My scum partner Robz. But seriously I have 30 posts in there and that is more than when I have a PR at the end of a normal game (just to say it now, this isn't a slip on whether I have a PR in this game)
-
@LaLight
Are you honestly saying Awaclus is voting for me because he finds me scummy? Let's call a spade a spade here, it's what he would want anyways.
He sincerely 100% believes you're scum at this point unless he is scum himself (maybe even in this case). It's Awaclus' style.
PPE: 1
I accept that you've played with him more but I still strongly disagree with your read of him as a person, using my own similar past actions as a reference.
I can't agree 16 y.o. you and Awaclus play the same
PPE: nope, sry
-
Innocent Child? We don't appear to have one? How worried should we be about mafia with a 2-shot vig?
vote: twm
Sheep vote:twm
This was my original vote for twm very early. Just like why I voted for O, I felt twm was trying to get town to leak info.
vote: The_Wine_Merchant
Serious vote.
Is anybody else no longer able to automatically bold on mobile?
Not OMGUSing. But when people have to specify if it is a serious vote, that is suspicious. Why would anyone think this wasn't a serious vote?
Doesn't the same logic apply to saying not OMGUSing that wasn't suspicious but you hope people think it is and are using poor logic, scummy all around.
Then there was this interaction which I find twm trying to come up with a reason to vote jreggie, he classically didn't outright call jreggie scummy, just suspicious. (This is something I told twm to do in our first mafia game together, let townies enhance your case for you)
This seems like scummy TWM, which means that he is town. Just like look at his newbie game. He has a CRAZY different tone when he is scum compared to town.
Everyone brings up newbie mafia twm what about the game me and him were mafia together. I think this looks a hell of a lot like scum twm.
How does it look like scum TWM?
I think scum twm tries to kick do some semi aggressive scumhunting which he appeared to try to do(can't grab quotes at work) and especially the post he made calling jreggie scummy for referring to his own vote as serious. It was taking a small thing and calling it "suspicious" which isn't outright calling him scummy so hopefully other townies flood behind twm and start voting jreggie.
this is were I explain my reasons.
mcmc did something townie. I don't remember what it was. Oh wait. I liked that he said we should take notes (maybe if I had taken notes I would have remembered that easier). Sure anyone can suggest it for towncred, I acknowledge that but he gets towncred anyway.
So, vote: sudgy
I'll sheep faust
This felt like a scummy way for twm to back off of me because my lynch wasn't going anywhere it's not damning but then add in his return to my wagon and his inability to explain what is and isn't scummy about me. Also the sudgy vote is silly.
Back to Vote: mcmc
I don't want to tunnel, I specifically remember a game where I found liopoil(someone I was scum with his first time) scummy early day one and I confirmation biased everything from them on and he turned out to be town.
But man this looks like you gave up pushing me because it wasn't going to work out for you(the votes didn't come for me and they stayed on you). Your reason for unvoting me was because I told people to write stuff down with is as you pointed out pro-town but not towny. Now I explain why setup speculation is really bad for town on day 1 which is also pro-town but not towny and you decide to vote me again.
Can you give me your reasoning for re voting me, like what exactly you found scummy about my recent posts?
I have confirmation bias and everything you are doing is scummy to me.
Proof of inability to explain his own read.
Full twm case.
Ppe like 25
-
I want to tunnel Gkrieg as he's been seemingly the hardest hunting early on, which i think is a scumread.
It's a good point, especially for gkrieg. He usually takes a while to get going as town.
This game has already been pretty involved up to this point. Usually it takes me a while to get going because I have other games, or I'm a VT so I've only posted /in and /confirm. This game already had me post a bunch of stuff in my QT.
Who else is in your QT?
I saw that awhile ago but it's pretty clearly referring to all the Robz-drafting questions i think.
-
@LaLight
Are you honestly saying Awaclus is voting for me because he finds me scummy? Let's call a spade a spade here, it's what he would want anyways.
He sincerely 100% believes you're scum at this point unless he is scum himself (maybe even in this case). It's Awaclus' style.
PPE: 1
I accept that you've played with him more but I still strongly disagree with your read of him as a person, using my own similar past actions as a reference.
I mean if you want you can look at him in M99 where he was scum and acted completely different.
-
I want to tunnel Gkrieg as he's been seemingly the hardest hunting early on, which i think is a scumread.
It's a good point, especially for gkrieg. He usually takes a while to get going as town.
This game has already been pretty involved up to this point. Usually it takes me a while to get going because I have other games, or I'm a VT so I've only posted /in and /confirm. This game already had me post a bunch of stuff in my QT.
Who else is in your QT?
My scum partner Robz. But seriously I have 30 posts in there and that is more than when I have a PR at the end of a normal game (just to say it now, this isn't a slip on whether I have a PR in this game)
I don't understand why you have brought this here. at all.
PPE: 2
-
Time for lunch with grandma, I'll do more catching up later.
-
I want to tunnel Gkrieg as he's been seemingly the hardest hunting early on, which i think is a scumread.
It's a good point, especially for gkrieg. He usually takes a while to get going as town.
This game has already been pretty involved up to this point. Usually it takes me a while to get going because I have other games, or I'm a VT so I've only posted /in and /confirm. This game already had me post a bunch of stuff in my QT.
Who else is in your QT?
My scum partner Robz. But seriously I have 30 posts in there and that is more than when I have a PR at the end of a normal game (just to say it now, this isn't a slip on whether I have a PR in this game)
I don't understand why you have brought this here. at all.
PPE: 2
I don't understand why you're seemingly against so much random conversation that already seems to be potentially very fruitful for future reads.
-
I want to tunnel Gkrieg as he's been seemingly the hardest hunting early on, which i think is a scumread.
It's a good point, especially for gkrieg. He usually takes a while to get going as town.
This game has already been pretty involved up to this point. Usually it takes me a while to get going because I have other games, or I'm a VT so I've only posted /in and /confirm. This game already had me post a bunch of stuff in my QT.
Who else is in your QT?
My scum partner Robz. But seriously I have 30 posts in there and that is more than when I have a PR at the end of a normal game (just to say it now, this isn't a slip on whether I have a PR in this game)
I don't understand why you have brought this here. at all.
PPE: 2
Uh because I was asked a question?
-
@LaLight
Are you honestly saying Awaclus is voting for me because he finds me scummy? Let's call a spade a spade here, it's what he would want anyways.
He sincerely 100% believes you're scum at this point unless he is scum himself (maybe even in this case). It's Awaclus' style.
PPE: 1
I accept that you've played with him more but I still strongly disagree with your read of him as a person, using my own similar past actions as a reference.
I mean if you want you can look at him in M99 where he was scum and acted completely different.
Still ongoing.
-
Lalight can you more concisely tell me what you don't like with my case on twm and how you think I was contradicting myself. I really don't think I did so I think you misunderstood something I said just want to make sure if you find my scummy it's because you know what I'm saying.
-
@LaLight
Are you honestly saying Awaclus is voting for me because he finds me scummy? Let's call a spade a spade here, it's what he would want anyways.
He sincerely 100% believes you're scum at this point unless he is scum himself (maybe even in this case). It's Awaclus' style.
PPE: 1
I accept that you've played with him more but I still strongly disagree with your read of him as a person, using my own similar past actions as a reference.
I mean if you want you can look at him in M99 where he was scum and acted completely different.
Still ongoing.
NO ITS NOT YOU LIAR
-
@LaLight
Are you honestly saying Awaclus is voting for me because he finds me scummy? Let's call a spade a spade here, it's what he would want anyways.
He sincerely 100% believes you're scum at this point unless he is scum himself (maybe even in this case). It's Awaclus' style.
PPE: 1
I accept that you've played with him more but I still strongly disagree with your read of him as a person, using my own similar past actions as a reference.
I mean if you want you can look at him in M99 where he was scum and acted completely different.
Still ongoing.
That's M98
-
@LaLight
Are you honestly saying Awaclus is voting for me because he finds me scummy? Let's call a spade a spade here, it's what he would want anyways.
He sincerely 100% believes you're scum at this point unless he is scum himself (maybe even in this case). It's Awaclus' style.
PPE: 1
I accept that you've played with him more but I still strongly disagree with your read of him as a person, using my own similar past actions as a reference.
I mean if you want you can look at him in M99 where he was scum and acted completely different.
Still ongoing.
Oops. I can't read
-
as for M99:
You can feel free to object to it. It's not against the rules, however.
I reject the notion that Awaclus is different day one there from here.
-
I want to tunnel Gkrieg as he's been seemingly the hardest hunting early on, which i think is a scumread.
It's a good point, especially for gkrieg. He usually takes a while to get going as town.
This game has already been pretty involved up to this point. Usually it takes me a while to get going because I have other games, or I'm a VT so I've only posted /in and /confirm. This game already had me post a bunch of stuff in my QT.
Who else is in your QT?
My scum partner Robz. But seriously I have 30 posts in there and that is more than when I have a PR at the end of a normal game (just to say it now, this isn't a slip on whether I have a PR in this game)
I don't understand why you have brought this here. at all.
PPE: 2
Uh because I was asked a question?
I mean.. talking about QTs is something on the edge for me as "sometimes-mod". It's dangerous. Maybe it's just me.
Well, I feel like I need to elaborate. Talking about QTs is a strong weapon because me, myself, tend to believe that a person wouldn't lie about such a matter. It's metagame. And if you are lying about your QT it just feels wrong. That's why I would better never talk about the QTs.
PPE: 4
-
Space, lalaight, and iguana will you do a reread of just twm and if you want me as well and then post your conclusions. I find all of you towny, and I find all of your votes in bad places.
On the other hand space if you would like to do a lalight reread and explain why you find him scummy I'll take that as well.
Eevee, jimm, 2.7, Gkrieg, still want you to weigh in on O (whose not ozzle, so I know less about him then I thought)
My LL vote was RVS. But even if it wasn't, the beauty of it being my vote is that you don't get a say in how valid it is. I also get alarm bells when players try to police others' play quite that much.
I'll have more time for reading later.. I'm at work from about 5am-2pm+ forum time, and in general this week that means being too busy to keep up with the thread during work hours, except maybe on a lunch break. Sorry if that's annoying for people :-(
Huh. PPE 61... that's what I get for trying to respond from work.
Hey space got strangely defense of me calling them out. I simple saw your vote on lalight whom I was viewing towny and hadn't heard from you in awhile so I was giving you something to discuss and hoping your vote could be added to a wagon that is currently relevant. I get alarm bells when players get defensive about explaining their votes. Would possibly vote space.
-
is mcmcmc always this serious-yet-undevoted to these wagons he tries to create?
-
Space, lalaight, and iguana will you do a reread of just twm and if you want me as well and then post your conclusions. I find all of you towny, and I find all of your votes in bad places.
On the other hand space if you would like to do a lalight reread and explain why you find him scummy I'll take that as well.
Eevee, jimm, 2.7, Gkrieg, still want you to weigh in on O (whose not ozzle, so I know less about him then I thought)
My LL vote was RVS. But even if it wasn't, the beauty of it being my vote is that you don't get a say in how valid it is. I also get alarm bells when players try to police others' play quite that much.
I'll have more time for reading later.. I'm at work from about 5am-2pm+ forum time, and in general this week that means being too busy to keep up with the thread during work hours, except maybe on a lunch break. Sorry if that's annoying for people :-(
Huh. PPE 61... that's what I get for trying to respond from work.
Hey space got strangely defense of me calling them out. I simple saw your vote on lalight whom I was viewing towny and hadn't heard from you in awhile so I was giving you something to discuss and hoping your vote could be added to a wagon that is currently relevant. I get alarm bells when players get defensive about explaining their votes. Would possibly vote space.
I think that has proven to be townie for them actually. For once in my life I don't want to lynch Space!
-
Okay so I don't care if I'm going to get crap. We should soft deadline ourselves. This is going to be insane if it continues till the real deadline. I'm not trying to cut things short but it's Day 1 and there lots of conversations that I don't think are being. Helpful.
-
I want to tunnel Gkrieg as he's been seemingly the hardest hunting early on, which i think is a scumread.
It's a good point, especially for gkrieg. He usually takes a while to get going as town.
This game has already been pretty involved up to this point. Usually it takes me a while to get going because I have other games, or I'm a VT so I've only posted /in and /confirm. This game already had me post a bunch of stuff in my QT.
Who else is in your QT?
My scum partner Robz. But seriously I have 30 posts in there and that is more than when I have a PR at the end of a normal game (just to say it now, this isn't a slip on whether I have a PR in this game)
I don't understand why you have brought this here. at all.
PPE: 2
Uh because I was asked a question?
I mean.. talking about QTs is something on the edge for me as "sometimes-mod". It's dangerous. Maybe it's just me.
Well, I feel like I need to elaborate. Talking about QTs is a strong weapon because me, myself, tend to believe that a person wouldn't lie about such a matter. It's metagame. And if you are lying about your QT it just feels wrong. That's why I would better never talk about the QTs.
PPE: 4
I mean it was just to show that I'm more invested in this game than I normally am at this stage in a game.
-
Okay so I don't care if I'm going to get crap. We should soft deadline ourselves. This is going to be insane if it continues till the real deadline. I'm not trying to cut things short but it's Day 1 and there lots of conversations that I don't think are being. Helpful.
Best way to do that is get bigger wagons. So back to vote: mcmc
-
Okay so I don't care if I'm going to get crap. We should soft deadline ourselves. This is going to be insane if it continues till the real deadline. I'm not trying to cut things short but it's Day 1 and there lots of conversations that I don't think are being. Helpful.
I think there are enough people on right now to get a lynch through. I'm not too worried about getting a lynch through.
-
Okay so I don't care if I'm going to get crap. We should soft deadline ourselves. This is going to be insane if it continues till the real deadline. I'm not trying to cut things short but it's Day 1 and there lots of conversations that I don't think are being. Helpful.
What kind of soft deadline do you mean?
-
I was already thinking mcmc and TWM were scum partners and then mcmc scumslipped. So yeah.
-
Okay so I don't care if I'm going to get crap. We should soft deadline ourselves. This is going to be insane if it continues till the real deadline. I'm not trying to cut things short but it's Day 1 and there lots of conversations that I don't think are being. Helpful.
Best way to do that is get bigger wagons. So back to vote: mcmc
You were already back on me. Remember your biased and think everything I do is scummy so you are already voting me.
-
I don't think soft deadlines are effective. I'd be willing to help you speed things along by hammering like half the people here, though.
Hmm, to try and make myself more scummy I'll ask this question: should we try and metagame around Hammer Hero in the slightest?
-
I was already thinking mcmc and TWM were scum partners and then mcmc scumslipped. So yeah.
Please please give a quote if you're going to allege a scumslip which is barely ever even a thing.
-
Eevee, 2.7, Gkrieg, Jim. What do you guys think about my recent thoughts on ozzle? Do you think he is pushing people to speculate so scum knows what townies may or may not have high draft slots. Or do you think he is just trying to find scum the best way he knows how?
I find the nickname confusing!
I'm not getting the scum vibes you are describing, I think he isn just trying to get the game moving and hunt for scum. O always had an unconventional style. I would give him a day 1 pass for activity alone.
-
I'm pretty null on o right now. I'm not sure where these town reads are coming from.
-
Okay so I don't care if I'm going to get crap. We should soft deadline ourselves. This is going to be insane if it continues till the real deadline. I'm not trying to cut things short but it's Day 1 and there lots of conversations that I don't think are being. Helpful.
What kind of soft deadline do you mean?
I mean giving ourselves like two more days and saying we have to lynch by then. That way it forces lurkers to catch-up, they know there wont be 90 more pages to d1, and we can start having discusioins with results.
-
I've asked Awaclus to watch his use of certain words. Please PM me individually with any concerns.
-
I don't think soft deadlines are effective. I'd be willing to help you speed things along by hammering like half the people here, though.
Hmm, to try and make myself more scummy I'll ask this question: should we try and metagame around Hammer Hero in the slightest?
I think it is more likely to be taken by scum right? So that would mean we don't want them to get the hammer, so we should make sure different people get it every time.
-
Innocent Child? We don't appear to have one? How worried should we be about mafia with a 2-shot vig?
vote: twm
Sheep vote:twm
This was my original vote for twm very early. Just like why I voted for O, I felt twm was trying to get town to leak info.
Okay, I agree here.
vote: The_Wine_Merchant
Serious vote.
Is anybody else no longer able to automatically bold on mobile?
Not OMGUSing. But when people have to specify if it is a serious vote, that is suspicious. Why would anyone think this wasn't a serious vote?
Doesn't the same logic apply to saying not OMGUSing that wasn't suspicious but you hope people think it is and are using poor logic, scummy all around.
Then there was this interaction which I find twm trying to come up with a reason to vote jreggie, he classically didn't outright call jreggie scummy, just suspicious. (This is something I told twm to do in our first mafia game together, let townies enhance your case for you)
I don't know if I myself would call someone scummy for such a matter. I call people suspicious as town, there is also a FoS existing (yeah, I know no one uses it but I have seen it even in this game). You are just strict on wording for some reason. And this reason is justifying your vote after everyone stopped voting TWM for fishing info from your first post.
This seems like scummy TWM, which means that he is town. Just like look at his newbie game. He has a CRAZY different tone when he is scum compared to town.
Everyone brings up newbie mafia twm what about the game me and him were mafia together. I think this looks a hell of a lot like scum twm.
How does it look like scum TWM?
I think scum twm tries to kick do some semi aggressive scumhunting which he appeared to try to do(can't grab quotes at work) and especially the post he made calling jreggie scummy for referring to his own vote as serious. It was taking a small thing and calling it "suspicious" which isn't outright calling him scummy so hopefully other townies flood behind twm and start voting jreggie.
this is were I explain my reasons.
mcmc did something townie. I don't remember what it was. Oh wait. I liked that he said we should take notes (maybe if I had taken notes I would have remembered that easier). Sure anyone can suggest it for towncred, I acknowledge that but he gets towncred anyway.
So, vote: sudgy
I'll sheep faust
This felt like a scummy way for twm to back off of me because my lynch wasn't going anywhere it's not damning but then add in his return to my wagon and his inability to explain what is and isn't scummy about me. Also the sudgy vote is silly.
Isn't that the very same thing you have done with O? And PPE: with Space?
Back to Vote: mcmc
I don't want to tunnel, I specifically remember a game where I found liopoil(someone I was scum with his first time) scummy early day one and I confirmation biased everything from them on and he turned out to be town.
But man this looks like you gave up pushing me because it wasn't going to work out for you(the votes didn't come for me and they stayed on you). Your reason for unvoting me was because I told people to write stuff down with is as you pointed out pro-town but not towny. Now I explain why setup speculation is really bad for town on day 1 which is also pro-town but not towny and you decide to vote me again.
Can you give me your reasoning for re voting me, like what exactly you found scummy about my recent posts?
I have confirmation bias and everything you are doing is scummy to me.
Proof of inability to explain his own read.
That's the one I also agree with, but he may just be frustrated. Or joking. I don't think this is a reason to tunnel.
Full twm case.
Ppe like 25
responses in bold purple
PPE: 1010
-
I'm pretty null on o right now. I'm not sure where these town reads are coming from.
1. activity 2. scum are plotting something involving lynching me a later day by finding me overly innocent today, i can taste it.
actually that's a pretty contrived and over the top scum plot and probably isnt the case.
-
Okay so I don't care if I'm going to get crap. We should soft deadline ourselves. This is going to be insane if it continues till the real deadline. I'm not trying to cut things short but it's Day 1 and there lots of conversations that I don't think are being. Helpful.
Best way to do that is get bigger wagons. So back to vote: mcmc
You were already back on me. Remember your biased and think everything I do is scummy so you are already voting me.
I went to Awaclus for a bit.
-
Okay so I don't care if I'm going to get crap. We should soft deadline ourselves. This is going to be insane if it continues till the real deadline. I'm not trying to cut things short but it's Day 1 and there lots of conversations that I don't think are being. Helpful.
What kind of soft deadline do you mean?
I mean giving ourselves like two more days and saying we have to lynch by then. That way it forces lurkers to catch-up, they know there wont be 90 more pages to d1, and we can start having discusioins with results.
Or it gives them a pass to say nothing all of D1, since apparently Never Lynch Lurkers Ever is the policy around here now.
-
I was already thinking mcmc and TWM were scum partners and then mcmc scumslipped. So yeah.
Please point it out. I'm 100% town I'll clear up anything. That being said my boss just arrived so posting untill five pm forum time will be much much less.
-
I was already thinking mcmc and TWM were scum partners and then mcmc scumslipped. So yeah.
Please please give a quote if you're going to allege a scumslip which is barely ever even a thing.
It's a giant wall of text and I'm on mobile, but he implied that they've had more than one game as mafia together. I haven't actually been paying much attention to recent games, but is that true? And I'd like to see mcmc's response to this.
-
Okay so I don't care if I'm going to get crap. We should soft deadline ourselves. This is going to be insane if it continues till the real deadline. I'm not trying to cut things short but it's Day 1 and there lots of conversations that I don't think are being. Helpful.
Best way to do that is get bigger wagons. So back to vote: mcmc
You were already back on me. Remember your biased and think everything I do is scummy so you are already voting me.
I went to Awaclus for a bit.
Oh okay, well that wasn't a great vote either and you've also seen scum me use awaclus' playstyle to derail a day.
-
I'm pretty null on o right now. I'm not sure where these town reads are coming from.
1. activity 2. scum are plotting something involving lynching me a later day by finding me overly innocent today, i can taste it.
actually that's a pretty contrived and over the top scum plot and probably isnt the case.
Especially over the top when most people don't know you
-
I mean it was just to show that I'm more invested in this game than I normally am at this stage in a game.
Ok.
-
I was already thinking mcmc and TWM were scum partners and then mcmc scumslipped. So yeah.
Please please give a quote if you're going to allege a scumslip which is barely ever even a thing.
It's a giant wall of text and I'm on mobile, but he implied that they've had more than one game as mafia together. I haven't actually been paying much attention to recent games, but is that true? And I'd like to see mcmc's response to this.
This is really weak. Come back to this when you can give a real quote.
-
It's probably just confirmation bias anyway.
Who here has played with o before?
-
But seriously, does anyone see this as an elaborate bus between TWM and mcmc?
-
I was already thinking mcmc and TWM were scum partners and then mcmc scumslipped. So yeah.
Please please give a quote if you're going to allege a scumslip which is barely ever even a thing.
It's a giant wall of text and I'm on mobile, but he implied that they've had more than one game as mafia together. I haven't actually been paying much attention to recent games, but is that true? And I'd like to see mcmc's response to this.
Yes I said that I'm sorry I meant it was twm's first game as mafia and we were mafia together. We have not been mafia together since.
-
Then there was this interaction which I find twm trying to come up with a reason to vote jreggie, he classically didn't outright call jreggie scummy, just suspicious. (This is something I told twm to do in our first mafia game together, let townies enhance your case for you)
This quote JReggie?
If so. BLAH!
-
I'm immediately suspicious of those who are all like, "I'm totally down with lynching so and so today", as if we have progressed far enough to feel real good about them being scum or, better yet, that flipping them will corner scum.
Unfortunately, that's a wide pool of laziness so I can't draw any meaningful conclusions from it.
Now, for Andrew, please tell me, in your own words, why you think I should think you are town this game and not badass scum coming to getcha like every other game in recent memory?
Because in no game ever am I badass scum, I just got lucky for a couple games.
That's a lie provable lie considering you're MVP.
I told myself that if I got a legitimate attempt he's probably town but a dismissive denial of his abilities deserved a Vote: Andrew
-
Then there was this interaction which I find twm trying to come up with a reason to vote jreggie, he classically didn't outright call jreggie scummy, just suspicious. (This is something I told twm to do in our first mafia game together, let townies enhance your case for you)
This quote JReggie?
If so. BLAH!
Yes that one.
-
Okay so I don't care if I'm going to get crap. We should soft deadline ourselves. This is going to be insane if it continues till the real deadline. I'm not trying to cut things short but it's Day 1 and there lots of conversations that I don't think are being. Helpful.
What kind of soft deadline do you mean?
I mean giving ourselves like two more days and saying we have to lynch by then. That way it forces lurkers to catch-up, they know there wont be 90 more pages to d1, and we can start having discusioins with results.
Well, the ability is only for the night-after. So we could have people claim to not be Hammer Hero, designate them to do the hammer, and then find it super scummy if we get a lot of extra deaths that night.
At the same time mafia can have 2-shot vig and frame someone this way. So I'm not claiming I have it case-bashed out, just saying there's potential.
@Jreggie Eevee, Galzria, Cuzz, Pingpongsam, Ashersky...?
-
But seriously, does anyone see this as an elaborate bus between TWM and mcmc?
You can look into I believe I have never ever bussed in my entire career of mafia. I may have done it once. Bussing is never ever ever a good option for scum in my opinion. That is well documented
-
I was already thinking mcmc and TWM were scum partners and then mcmc scumslipped. So yeah.
Please please give a quote if you're going to allege a scumslip which is barely ever even a thing.
It's a giant wall of text and I'm on mobile, but he implied that they've had more than one game as mafia together. I haven't actually been paying much attention to recent games, but is that true? And I'd like to see mcmc's response to this.
Yes I said that I'm sorry I meant it was twm's first game as mafia and we were mafia together. We have not been mafia together since.
Actually this response is more scummy than I was expecting.
-
Bussing is never ever ever a good option for scum in my opinion. That is well documented
strongly disagree
-
But seriously, does anyone see this as an elaborate bus between TWM and mcmc?
You can look into I believe I have never ever bussed in my entire career of mafia. I may have done it once. Bussing is never ever ever a good option for scum in my opinion. That is well documented
But this is basically the same argument ash gave after bussing me in gravity falls and it totally worked.
-
is mcmcmc always this serious-yet-undevoted to these wagons he tries to create?
yes, he likes multiple lines in the water and will switch between them
-
Well, people here may justify scumread on you based on some of your posts. Look at Awaclus for one. I'd call it "easy wagon". Because any of us actually may reread you and call you scummy afterwards, but thing is that overall you're very townie and any townie understands that but out of context you may seem very scummy
Man, context doesn't matter. Small details is how you catch scum.
-
But seriously, does anyone see this as an elaborate bus between TWM and mcmc?
You can look into I believe I have never ever bussed in my entire career of mafia. I may have done it once. Bussing is never ever ever a good option for scum in my opinion. That is well documented
This can't be true.
-
Again O, I think hammer hero discussion are waaay better saved for tommorow. Stop changing the topic away from scumhunting to role stuff. It clogs us down.
-
@LaLight
Are you honestly saying Awaclus is voting for me because he finds me scummy? Let's call a spade a spade here, it's what he would want anyways.
Yes, I genuinely believe this is the only way to scumhunt that gives you a better chance of success than full random.
-
Bussing is never ever ever a good option for scum in my opinion. That is well documented
strongly disagree
strongly concur
-
Again O, I think hammer hero discussion are waaay better saved for tommorow. Stop changing the topic away from scumhunting to role stuff. It clogs us down.
I bet if you ask him again it'll stick this time.
-
The game with Andrew that has me convinced he is the boogie man had bussing as the central strategy.
-
I accept that you've played with him more but I still strongly disagree with your read of him as a person, using my own similar past actions as a reference.
However, I'm not your past self.
-
Bussing is never ever ever a good option for scum in my opinion. That is well documented
strongly disagree
hey look i'm coaching mcmc
tho actually mcmc saying this looks really scummy
and now I'm bussing mcmc after saying i disagree that bussing mcmc's a bad strategy
-
But seriously, does anyone see this as an elaborate bus between TWM and mcmc?
You can look into I believe I have never ever bussed in my entire career of mafia. I may have done it once. Bussing is never ever ever a good option for scum in my opinion. That is well documented
This can't be true.
I'm not going to do the research but I'll give you a 99% I'm right. I will look insanely scummy in order to save my partner over bussing. Look at the amount of flawless scum victories I have compared to anything else
-
This is not the way mcmc should want to be responding as scum. Does that make him town? I don't think so.
-
I accept that you've played with him more but I still strongly disagree with your read of him as a person, using my own similar past actions as a reference.
However, I'm not your past self.
I'm IC-tier of suspicion among other people so I feel literally no need to engage with you in this, and I also find it super unpleasant. So I'm going to make this my closing statement, feel free to get the last word in after.
-
Like, why would you go for the "I'm not bussing" argument rather than the "I'm not scum" argument so hard?
-
I'm IC-tier of suspicion among other people
Yeah, well, I continue to be baffled by everyone's insistence on relying on pseudoscience instead of hard evidence.
-
I'm IC-tier of suspicion among other people
Yeah, well, I continue to be baffled by everyone's insistence on relying on pseudoscience instead of hard evidence.
What hard evidence?
-
Like, why would you go for the "I'm not bussing" argument rather than the "I'm not scum" argument so hard?
This is a good observation, people.
-
This is not the way mcmc should want to be responding as scum. Does that make him town? I don't think so.
is the new scum meta to be the hardest pusher of every wagon ever regardless of how unpopular it is making him?
This wagon's even worse than the TWC wagon. Not that it's really a wagon.
-
I'm IC-tier of suspicion among other people
Yeah, well, I continue to be baffled by everyone's insistence on relying on pseudoscience instead of hard evidence.
There's no hard evidence until D2. Unless you're scum.
-
Hard evidence is just phrase that Awaclus likes to hide behind.
-
I'm IC-tier of suspicion among other people
Yeah, well, I continue to be baffled by everyone's insistence on relying on pseudoscience instead of hard evidence.
What hard evidence?
You saying that you're trying to win by purposefully doing things that aren't in town's best interests.
-
is mcmcmc always this serious-yet-undevoted to these wagons he tries to create?
He likes to let townies enhance them. (<--- a joke)
Mcmc is looking towny I think, he is playing riskier than i would except scum to. easier to hide in a game like this, hence i would steer clear of lynching the most visible players. we can get the active people lately as well (and i'm saying this full well knowing i'm not one of the most active players).
-
Like, why would you go for the "I'm not bussing" argument rather than the "I'm not scum" argument so hard?
This is a good observation, people.
No, that's exactly what is pseudoscience.
-
I'm IC-tier of suspicion among other people
Yeah, well, I continue to be baffled by everyone's insistence on relying on pseudoscience instead of hard evidence.
What hard evidence?
You saying that you're trying to win by purposefully doing things that aren't in town's best interests.
That is not hard evidence. Why should someone be more likely to say that as scum than as town?
-
That is not hard evidence. Why should someone be more likely to say that as scum than as town?
Because town doesn't say it.
-
That is not hard evidence. Why should someone be more likely to say that as scum than as town?
Because town doesn't say it.
Why should scum say it?
-
That is not hard evidence. Why should someone be more likely to say that as scum than as town?
Because town doesn't say it.
false.
-
That is not hard evidence. Why should someone be more likely to say that as scum than as town?
Because town doesn't say it.
Disagree. I am town and I agree with O.
-
In my experience scum make a much greater effort to be "pro-town" than town.
-
Like, why would you go for the "I'm not bussing" argument rather than the "I'm not scum" argument so hard?
There both true
-
is mcmcmc always this serious-yet-undevoted to these wagons he tries to create?
He likes to let townies enhance them. (<--- a joke)
Mcmc is looking towny I think, he is playing riskier than i would except scum to. easier to hide in a game like this, hence i would steer clear of lynching the most visible players. we can get the active people lately as well (and i'm saying this full well knowing i'm not one of the most active players).
eevee please stop being secret innocent child it's really annoying not being able to get reads
-
In my experience scum make a much greater effort to be "pro-town" than town.
What does pro-town even really mean? It's such an empty concept imo.
-
Like, why would you go for the "I'm not bussing" argument rather than the "I'm not scum" argument so hard?
There both true
You can only bus of you are scum. Semantics
-
In my experience scum make a much greater effort to be "pro-town" than town.
What does pro-town even really mean? It's such an empty concept imo.
Just think of the opposite of Awaclus and you'll have it.
-
eevee please stop being secret innocent child it's really annoying not being able to get reads
Don't tell me what i can or cannot do!
vote: andrew The downplaying of his scum abilities after just winning a scum mvp seems disingenuous, and scum andrew would probably like to be underestimated. also fits my
low profile slot for more probable scum.
all circumstantial though, i have no hard evidence.
-
In my experience scum make a much greater effort to be "pro-town" than town.
What does pro-town even really mean? It's such an empty concept imo.
This is the sort of thing I am thinking of. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=11385.50) In village mafia ashersky (as scum) came up with a plan that would almost always result in a town win. We had some small chance of manipulating it and such, but really it was impossible for town to lose.
Nothing that dramatic is going to happen thus game, but it is totally within reason that scum would overly concern themselves in trying to make sure we only do things today that benefit town. Like, "don't clutter the thread." "Don't mass claim." Etc.
-
Like, why would you go for the "I'm not bussing" argument rather than the "I'm not scum" argument so hard?
There both true
i agree this is scummy from mcmc. scum likes it when they can refute a point without lying. something about it being more fun when you can get away with talking around the issue instead of "hard lying".
-
I'm totally willing to sheep eevee into a Andrew hammer if we get there. He's posted but i can't remember any of them, which usually means they were low-content.
I'm comfortable with where my vote is for the time being though.
-
In my experience scum make a much greater effort to be "pro-town" than town.
What does pro-town even really mean? It's such an empty concept imo.
This is the sort of thing I am thinking of. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=11385.50) In village mafia ashersky (as scum) came up with a plan that would almost always result in a town win. We had some small chance of manipulating it and such, but really it was impossible for town to lose.
Nothing that dramatic is going to happen thus game, but it is totally within reason that scum would overly concern themselves in trying to make sure we only do things today that benefit town. Like, "don't clutter the thread." "Don't mass claim." Etc.
Actual link to the post: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=11385.msg398614#msg398614
On my phone, referencing is hard
-
So many PPE's there will be...:
J Reggie - I find his tying himself to Gkreig really, really weird. It started with his 4th post of the game:
Ahhh, 65 games later, and I can still count on waking up in the morning to find myself driving a nice D1 wagon.
O, Ash, mcmc - I'm flattered that I'm your first vote in such a big game!
For many of you this is my first time playing with you. Would people mind posting preferred nicknames when being addressed/voted? I don't feel like typing The_Wine_Merchant out every time when I imagine TWM will suffice.
Generally I go by Galz.
I used to always view your profile instead of going to the mafia game threads. Now it's gkrieg. I go by J Reggie, or JReggie, or JR, or whatever you want to call me really. Just don't call me late to dinner.
6th post:
gkrieg, what do you think about pps as SK?
and 8th post:
To make reads easier, from this point until an undisclosed later time, I will automatically be scumreading anyone who votes gkrieg and townreading anyone who votes pps.
That's a LOT of love for Gkrieg in a very brief period of time.
And then there was this:
vote: The_Wine_Merchant
Serious vote.
Is anybody else no longer able to automatically bold on mobile?
Which has been the center to conversation between mcmc and TWM, but Reggie - I don't believe you ever actually explained WHY it was serious, or what your case was? You dropped "Serious Vote", and then instantly changed the subject. In fact, your next two posts on the subject (a ways a part) are:
vote: The_Wine_Merchant
Serious vote.
Is anybody else no longer able to automatically bold on mobile?
Not OMGUSing. But when people have to specify if it is a serious vote, that is suspicious. Why would anyone think this wasn't a serious vote?
RVS. Or if they're scum.
and
Three votes on me. Don't know why.
Because you're scum.
When he finally answered me on the subject of Gkrieg, he brought up the whole TWM thing again...
To galz: I think the reason I did that gkrieg/pps thing was to get somewhere. There was a disagreement and I was taking a side, and sort of encouraging other people to take sides. Once something more interesting happened (in this case TWM being scummy and then getting scummier when people started accusing him) I forgot about it and moved on.
The "people" that started accusing him was you! And you never actually accused him of anything, just put your vote on, said it was serious, and called him scum - with no case or reason.
The following you state that you previously said something... that I can't seem to find you saying anywhere. In a QT maybe?
Also, I had previously said I would be basing my reads off of something superficial. That's done.
Lastly, and this may or may not be anything, but the first time J Reggie used the word "serious", was pregame when discussing WW's:
I haven't played in forever, so I forget--do NKs and power roles get executed night 0, or is it just for the bidding process?
There won't be power usage Night 0. There will be draft ordering, QT discussion for mafia members, and bidding.
Do werewolves have a QT N0?
This is a serious question
I think at the moment I'm definitely happy with my vote on Reggie. The weird interaction between him and Gkreig early, followed by his tunneling of TWM with no rhyme or reason, plus the "I had previously said I would be basing my reads off of something superficial" - which to my knowledge was never said in thread are enough for me at this time.
-
Speaking of ashersky, where is he? 17 posts seems uncannily low for him
-
That is not hard evidence. Why should someone be more likely to say that as scum than as town?
Because town doesn't say it.
Why should scum say it?
By accident.
-
That is not hard evidence. Why should someone be more likely to say that as scum than as town?
Because town doesn't say it.
false.
Yeah, town doesn't say it because it would be a false statement coming from town.
-
Disagree. I am town and I agree with O.
So you're also his scum partner.
-
Disagree. I am town and I agree with O.
So you're also his scum partner.
Curious: what will you think if 10 people will say the same?
-
Disagree. I am town and I agree with O.
So you're also his scum partner.
Curious: what will you think if 10 people will say the same?
I will think that town is going to lose for sure.
-
Disagree. I am town and I agree with O.
So you're also his scum partner.
Me too!
-
Disagree. I am town and I agree with O.
So you're also his scum partner.
Curious: what will you think if 10 people will say the same?
I will think that town is going to lose for sure.
But why? Seriously why?
-
oops disconnected and botched reply.
Reply: In my opinion, massclaim = bad. But the discussion might overall be protown independently, and is definitely not just RVS discussion which is inherently nice.
This O guy might not be town, but he probably is. But he is basically thinking all the things I am! So I like him!
I think this was the post that originally got my scum senses tingling in TWM.
-
Disagree. I am town and I agree with O.
So you're also his scum partner.
Curious: what will you think if 10 people will say the same?
I will think that town is going to lose for sure.
But why? Seriously why?
Because O confessed that he isn't town. If there were 4 townies who agreed with that confession, that would be disastrous.
-
quote significantly shortened
I think at the moment I'm definitely happy with my vote on Reggie. The weird interaction between him and Gkreig early, followed by his tunneling of TWM with no rhyme or reason, plus the "I had previously said I would be basing my reads off of something superficial" - which to my knowledge was never said in thread are enough for me at this time.
To make reads easier, from this point until an undisclosed later time, I will automatically be scumreading anyone who votes gkrieg and townreading anyone who votes pps.
-
quote significantly shortened
I think at the moment I'm definitely happy with my vote on Reggie. The weird interaction between him and Gkreig early, followed by his tunneling of TWM with no rhyme or reason, plus the "I had previously said I would be basing my reads off of something superficial" - which to my knowledge was never said in thread are enough for me at this time.
To make reads easier, from this point until an undisclosed later time, I will automatically be scumreading anyone who votes gkrieg and townreading anyone who votes pps.
Thank you, I was just about to post this.
-
Disagree. I am town and I agree with O.
So you're also his scum partner.
Curious: what will you think if 10 people will say the same?
I will think that town is going to lose for sure.
But why? Seriously why?
Have you never played with Awaclus?
-
And Galz, my first gkrieg reference was because he's a board mod, which you used to be, which means that on mobile sometimes I accidentally click on his name instead of "mafia game threads".
-
Have you never played with Awaclus?
That's a good question, actually. LaLight of all people should know how effective my scumhunting technique is, given that I've read him correctly every single time.
-
quote significantly shortened
I think at the moment I'm definitely happy with my vote on Reggie. The weird interaction between him and Gkreig early, followed by his tunneling of TWM with no rhyme or reason, plus the "I had previously said I would be basing my reads off of something superficial" - which to my knowledge was never said in thread are enough for me at this time.
To make reads easier, from this point until an undisclosed later time, I will automatically be scumreading anyone who votes gkrieg and townreading anyone who votes pps.
The second quote (first in time) has nothing to do with the second quote. His EXACT quote was "I had previously said I would be basing my reads off of something superficial" - When in fact he never said anything of the sort.
-
Please people, you're not going to convince Awaclus that he's wrong and you not posting isn't going to convince people that he's right. This is the definition of gumming up the thread.
That almost auto-corrected badly...
-
To whoever said bussing is bad (Mcmc?), you are wrong. 2 of my 3 scum games (won all 3), bussing was key. Andrew and I bussed each other, I ended up offline so I missed the hammer, so he lynched me and went on to win MVP. Ashersky (primarily) and I (supporting) bussed J Reggie D2 with a fake tracker result and went on to win and both survived. Bussing D1 or D2 is particularly strong for scum.
PPE 4ish
-
quote significantly shortened
I think at the moment I'm definitely happy with my vote on Reggie. The weird interaction between him and Gkreig early, followed by his tunneling of TWM with no rhyme or reason, plus the "I had previously said I would be basing my reads off of something superficial" - which to my knowledge was never said in thread are enough for me at this time.
To make reads easier, from this point until an undisclosed later time, I will automatically be scumreading anyone who votes gkrieg and townreading anyone who votes pps.
The second quote (first in time) has nothing to do with the second quote. His EXACT quote was "I had previously said I would be basing my reads off of something superficial" - When in fact he never said anything of the sort.
Except I did, and it's referenced in the second quote.
-
Have you never played with Awaclus?
That's a good question, actually. LaLight of all people should know how effective my scumhunting technique is, given that I've read him correctly every single time.
That was not the point. Point was why then you don't think Cuzz is town who agrees with O and why the hell you know there would be exactly 4 townies?
-
Awaclus is town
Ppe whatevs
-
quote significantly shortened
I think at the moment I'm definitely happy with my vote on Reggie. The weird interaction between him and Gkreig early, followed by his tunneling of TWM with no rhyme or reason, plus the "I had previously said I would be basing my reads off of something superficial" - which to my knowledge was never said in thread are enough for me at this time.
To make reads easier, from this point until an undisclosed later time, I will automatically be scumreading anyone who votes gkrieg and townreading anyone who votes pps.
That doesn't do anything to lessen j reggies strange fascination for gkrieg this game. Crafting arbitrary means to establish reads also relieves you of actually having to create reads that you can be held accountable for later.
My experiment with the TWM wagon had some results, probably haven't let it sit long enough to really get better results, but I will join galzria with
Vote: J Reggie
-
Please people, you're not going to convince Awaclus that he's wrong and you not posting isn't going to convince people that he's right. This is the definition of gumming up the thread.
Telling your scum partners to stop being so obviously O's scum partners?
-
Vote Count 1.7
LaLight (1): SpaceAnemone,
mcmcsalot (4): gkrieg, LaLight, JaketheBaseballGod22, The_Wine_Merchant
2.71828 (1): AndrewisFTTW
ashersky (1): iguanaiguana
J Reggie (2): Galzria, 2.7128....
The_Wine_Merchant (5): J Reggie, ashersky, Dylan32, sudgy, mcmcsalot
Awaclus (1): O
sudgy (1): faust
O (1): Awaclus
iguanaiguana (1): Cuzz
AndrewisFTTW (2): pingpongsam, Eevee
Not Voting (3): Calamitas, RoadRunner, Jimmmm,
With 23 alive it takes just 10 to lynch. Day 1 ends on Tuesday, May 23, at 10:00 AM Forum Time.
-
Awaclus, are you a Werewolf?
-
quote significantly shortened
I think at the moment I'm definitely happy with my vote on Reggie. The weird interaction between him and Gkreig early, followed by his tunneling of TWM with no rhyme or reason, plus the "I had previously said I would be basing my reads off of something superficial" - which to my knowledge was never said in thread are enough for me at this time.
To make reads easier, from this point until an undisclosed later time, I will automatically be scumreading anyone who votes gkrieg and townreading anyone who votes pps.
That doesn't do anything to lessen j reggies strange fascination for gkrieg this game. Crafting arbitrary means to establish reads also relieves you of actually having to create reads that you can be held accountable for later.
My experiment with the TWM wagon had some results, probably haven't let it sit long enough to really get better results, but I will join galzria with
Vote: J Reggie
I mean really more people should just be obsessed with me honestly
-
J Reggie, where in this quote that you're saying it exists, did you say "I will be basing my reads off of something superficial"?
To make reads easier, from this point until an undisclosed later time, I will automatically be scumreading anyone who votes gkrieg and townreading anyone who votes pps.
Because what you're saying NOW is that the above quote IS "I had previously said I would be basing my reads off of something superficial" - which it's not. At all.
-
O +10 people agreeing make 11. Awaclus said there will be 4 townies; 7 scums. 5 mafia and 2 werewolves. The only way to know is to be a werewolf
-
J Reggie, where in this quote that you're saying it exists, did you say "I will be basing my reads off of something superficial"?
To make reads easier, from this point until an undisclosed later time, I will automatically be scumreading anyone who votes gkrieg and townreading anyone who votes pps.
Because what you're saying NOW is that the above quote IS "I had previously said I would be basing my reads off of something superficial" - which it's not. At all.
He was saying that the condition he was basing reads on (votes on those two people) was a superficial condition. Really, that seems pretty straightforward.
That being said, I just reread J Reggie, and there just wasn't a ton there. A few decent posts, but nothing that makes me not ok with Vote: J Reggie
PPE 1
-
vote: Awaclus
-
Have you never played with Awaclus?
That's a good question, actually. LaLight of all people should know how effective my scumhunting technique is, given that I've read him correctly every single time.
That was not the point. Point was why then you don't think Cuzz is town who agrees with O and why the hell you know there would be exactly 4 townies?
Well, there can be 5 mafia and 1 SK, so out of 10 people agreeing with O, that would leave us with 4 townies. Any game in which a townie agrees with O is already a very unfavorable situation so I'm going to leave those situations out of consideration.
-
vote: JReggie
back tracking to make up what he thought he found me scummy for.
-
Please people, you're not going to convince Awaclus that he's wrong and you not posting isn't going to convince people that he's right. This is the definition of gumming up the thread.
That almost auto-corrected badly...
If Awaclus is gumming up the thread with nonsense, we should just lynch him for his """anti-town""" behavior, whatever that means.
And if being "anti-town" and rude is his standard townie behavior, I have no problem metagaming and policy lynching. Just as Awaclus has no apparently problem policy lynching anyone who pricks his ego, which is the only answer left given how desperately specious his arguments have been.
"Just ignore Awaclus" is a dumb sentiment when we can just lynch him instead.
That being said, I'm also incredibly willing to lynch anyone who has complained about "gumming up the thread" substantially, since that's just about as patently ridiculous IMO.
oh no how can I find imaginary scumslips and instill WIFOM into RVS votes if people are talking in a mafia game, the horror.
-
Awaclus, are you a Werewolf?
No.
-
J Reggie, where in this quote that you're saying it exists, did you say "I will be basing my reads off of something superficial"?
To make reads easier, from this point until an undisclosed later time, I will automatically be scumreading anyone who votes gkrieg and townreading anyone who votes pps.
Because what you're saying NOW is that the above quote IS "I had previously said I would be basing my reads off of something superficial" - which it's not. At all.
To be clear - I think the quote IS "basing reads off of something superficial" - but that's not what I'm questioning here. What I'm questioning is the fact that you claim to have SAID that you would be basing reads off of something superficial, which you never did - unless it was in a QT. And the fact that you followed up this supposed statement with actually DOING it, and are now trying to claim that the act of doing it is the equivalent of saying it is scummy.
-
And if being "anti-town" and rude is his standard townie behavior
No, this is as pro-town as anyone can possibly be.
-
J Reggie, where in this quote that you're saying it exists, did you say "I will be basing my reads off of something superficial"?
To make reads easier, from this point until an undisclosed later time, I will automatically be scumreading anyone who votes gkrieg and townreading anyone who votes pps.
Because what you're saying NOW is that the above quote IS "I had previously said I would be basing my reads off of something superficial" - which it's not. At all.
I arbitrarily decided that pps was scum before he posted anything and then later decided gkrieg was town, and proceeded to say I would base reads off of that. That seems pretty superficial.
-
And if being "anti-town" and rude is his standard townie behavior
No, this is as pro-town as anyone can possibly be.
we have always been at war with Eastasia
-
I am now slightly less likely to vote O purely to keep someone who is quoting 1984 alive
-
J Reggie, where in this quote that you're saying it exists, did you say "I will be basing my reads off of something superficial"?
To make reads easier, from this point until an undisclosed later time, I will automatically be scumreading anyone who votes gkrieg and townreading anyone who votes pps.
Because what you're saying NOW is that the above quote IS "I had previously said I would be basing my reads off of something superficial" - which it's not. At all.
To be clear - I think the quote IS "basing reads off of something superficial" - but that's not what I'm questioning here. What I'm questioning is the fact that you claim to have SAID that you would be basing reads off of something superficial, which you never did - unless it was in a QT. And the fact that you followed up this supposed statement with actually DOING it, and are now trying to claim that the act of doing it is the equivalent of saying it is scummy.
I really don't understand where you're getting lost here. I said I would be doing something, then later I said I was doing that but used different words.
-
J Reggie, where in this quote that you're saying it exists, did you say "I will be basing my reads off of something superficial"?
To make reads easier, from this point until an undisclosed later time, I will automatically be scumreading anyone who votes gkrieg and townreading anyone who votes pps.
Because what you're saying NOW is that the above quote IS "I had previously said I would be basing my reads off of something superficial" - which it's not. At all.
To be clear - I think the quote IS "basing reads off of something superficial" - but that's not what I'm questioning here. What I'm questioning is the fact that you claim to have SAID that you would be basing reads off of something superficial, which you never did - unless it was in a QT. And the fact that you followed up this supposed statement with actually DOING it, and are now trying to claim that the act of doing it is the equivalent of saying it is scummy.
I really don't understand where you're getting lost here. I said I would be doing something, then later I said I was doing that but used different words.
Because to me, this is what I see:
(Somewhere town can't see) J Reggie: "I'm going to be basing my reads off of something superficial"
----------
(In Game) J Reggie: Bases Reads off of something superficial
(In Game) J Reggie: "I said I was going to be basing my reads off of something superficial"
*********
That follows much more to me than:
(In Game) J Reggie: Bases reads off something superficial
(In Game) J Reggie: "I said I was going to be basing my reads off something superficial"
(In Game) J Reggie: *The act of me basing my reads off of something superficial is the same as me saying that I was going to do it*
The second example just doesn't follow to me. It's putting the cart before the horse.
-
Update on lynch pool removals:
RR
LaLight
TWM
iguana
O
mcmc
Andrew
ash
-
I'm happy to lynch Awaclus, Roadrunner or J Reggie but at the same time I disagree with most of the other people's reasoning for those people (Galzrias for J Reggie, LaLights for Awaclus...)
-
I like what Galzria is doing with J Reggie.
-
I don't think Awaclus has done anything so far that would be alignment-indicative.
-
I like what Galzria is doing with J Reggie.
I don't but maybe I just don't get it.
Didn't Reggie say publicly early d1 that he had those kinda dumb arbitrary criteria for wagoning? Before he did those exact things? Or is galzria somehow showing otherwise.
-
I like what Galzria is doing with J Reggie.
I don't but maybe I just don't get it.
Didn't Reggie say publicly early d1 that he had those kinda dumb arbitrary criteria for wagoning? Before he did those exact things? Or is galzria somehow showing otherwise.
Galz is saying that the difference in wording between JR's announcement of his arbitrary criteria and his statement of what he had previously said ending is significant.
-
Vote: J Reggie
-
I like what Galzria is doing with J Reggie.
I don't but maybe I just don't get it.
Didn't Reggie say publicly early d1 that he had those kinda dumb arbitrary criteria for wagoning? Before he did those exact things? Or is galzria somehow showing otherwise.
Galz is saying that the difference in wording between JR's announcement of his arbitrary criteria and his statement of what he had previously said ending is significant.
That instead of using the words "superficial" he described a very superficial process?
That's an actual question, I'm not sure what else the "difference in words" is.
-
I like what Galzria is doing with J Reggie.
I don't but maybe I just don't get it.
Didn't Reggie say publicly early d1 that he had those kinda dumb arbitrary criteria for wagoning? Before he did those exact things? Or is galzria somehow showing otherwise.
I think you're thinking of someone else, unless you're interpreting something he said in a completely different way than I am - I see nothing relating to wagoning based on dumb arbitrary criteria from him.
-
Scums are, in no particular order:
sudgy
J Reggie
pps
Dylan
Eevee
-
I like what galz is doing, but I don't think J Reggie is scum for it.
Update on lynch pool removals:
RR
LaLight
TWM
iguana
O
mcmc
Andrew
ash
Why Andrew? And why mcmc? And why ash?
I get O.
-
vote count please
-
Scums are, in no particular order:
sudgy
J Reggie
pps
Dylan
Eevee
Why sudgy, why PPS?
-
I think you're thinking of someone else, unless you're interpreting something he said in a completely different way than I am - I see nothing relating to wagoning based on dumb arbitrary criteria from him.
To make reads easier, from this point until an undisclosed later time, I will automatically be scumreading anyone who votes gkrieg and townreading anyone who votes pps.
That's what I was referring to. I think we disagree semantically on whether that's promising wagoning on dumb arbitrary criteria, I guess.
-
I like what galz is doing, but I don't think J Reggie is scum for it.
Update on lynch pool removals:
RR
LaLight
TWM
iguana
O
mcmc
Andrew
ash
Why Andrew? And why mcmc? And why ash?
I get O.
I don't keep notes on these reads, I just put them in my QT as soon as I feel them.
-
Scums are, in no particular order:
sudgy
J Reggie
pps
Dylan
Eevee
Why sudgy, why PPS?
sudgy has exactly 1 post. I'm sure you can figure out why I'm voting for him.
pps is too normal.
-
Scums are, in no particular order:
sudgy
J Reggie
pps
Dylan
Eevee
I think you mean "People who have been online the least besides me are..."
-
pps is too normal.
pretty meaningless isnt it
-
Caught up. PSA: I won't be posting much during specific hours due to busy-ness. Should have more time in a week or so.
A lot happened in the past ~20 pages. Takeaways:
--O is a cool cat. Had opportunities to react with strong emotions, but apparently didn't.
--Awaclus is no more likely to be scum following his extreme Awaclusing than before.
--Calling out "lurkers" in a 24-hour window is nonsense. Game rules give folks time to have a life, catch up, etc.
--Galzria had some towny posts.
--gkrieg13 had some townier posts than before.
--Faust added some Town dust.
My vote on TWM: no one has mentioned the reason that I planted my vote. I quoted the post; I seriously believe only scum was even looking out for the possible IC announcement, and would be more likely by far to comment on the lack thereof. What town player came into D1 wondering about an IC? What's the Town motivation/narrative for that line of thought?
So that's my reasoning from what seems like ages ago.
-
Gkrieg repeating his Faust impression isn't helping himself.
-
gkrieg is making sense, and being helpful.
I don't like lynching TWM.
How am I being helpful?
Don't worry, you aren't, at all.
Yea I'm back on being cool with a gkrieg lynch.
I need to write down my thoughts townreads so I don't forget. I would actually suggest that to everyone. Later in this game it's going to be impossible to remember what happened early and scum can use that to trick people into lynch players they previously had strong town reads on, it happens even in small games.
And why is that?
I found you scummy early on, I believe pps whom I find towny said you were defending a lot of people. Then you did something I can't remember exactly what which made me think you were acting more like town, but this recent defense of twm has flipped me back around. It's loose.
So this from mcmcsalot, with this as a response:
Like that means that your case against me is that PPS said I was defending people, but you say you think PPS is townie.
But I was the one that said PPS was defending people weird and that he was scummy. So PPS is townie for doing so, but I'm scummy for doing so? PARADOX
Remember how I said I have to write things down...
So, does that mean you think I'm townie and that PPS is scummy?
-
pps is too normal.
pretty meaningless isnt it
Ultimately we have to let go of the illusion that the things we say ever really mean anything.
-
But you would know about that.
-
Kidding btw, RR would be on the list of low posters. Also Jake. I keep forgetting he is even in this game, which is most unusual.
PPE 4
-
I don't think Awaclus has done anything so far that would be alignment-indicative.
Agreed
-
But you would know about that.
true enough
-
I think you're thinking of someone else, unless you're interpreting something he said in a completely different way than I am - I see nothing relating to wagoning based on dumb arbitrary criteria from him.
To make reads easier, from this point until an undisclosed later time, I will automatically be scumreading anyone who votes gkrieg and townreading anyone who votes pps.
That's what I was referring to. I think we disagree semantically on whether that's promising wagoning on dumb arbitrary criteria, I guess.
No, I suppose you're correct on that. Just not the terms I thought of when he posted it. Further, at the TIME of his posting, it was his 8th post, and cemented the strange relationship he had going with gkrieg at the time (found in his 2nd, 4th, and 6th post) - which, while maybe all completely unrelated, caught my eye back then too (as my first directed question was to J Reggie regarding exactly that topic). All this is to say, at the time he posted this, it was unclear that it was in fact superficial. And when he stated later that he had "previously said that I will be making reads based on superficial reasons", A) He didn't point to that post, or any other as evidence of him making reads based on superficial reasons, and B) Even if he had, that post itself is NOT him "previously saying that he will be making reads based on superficial reasons", if anything it's simply him "making reads based on superficial reasons".
Anyway, perhaps it's all semantics. But stating "I have previously said I would be doing something", is VERY different to me than "I previously did something".
That said, for now, I'll let it sit while I reread some other people.
-
Gkrieg repeating his Faust impression isn't helping himself.
It's mainly because I trust faust, and so getting reasons for his reads helps me formulate my own.
-
My vote on TWM: no one has mentioned the reason that I planted my vote. I quoted the post; I seriously believe only scum was even looking out for the possible IC announcement, and would be more likely by far to comment on the lack thereof. What town player came into D1 wondering about an IC? What's the Town motivation/narrative for that line of thought?
So that's my reasoning from what seems like ages ago.
I asked you for an explanation. So thanks for providing it now. I appreciate that, but please don't criticize us because it took you a long time to provide something asked for.
My concern is that we have the potential for a 2-shot vig that is owned by mafia. If I were mafia that is the slot I would have promoted going for my team had a stop slot. It would. 1. prevent an IC from town and 2. give mafia two extra night kills. It should have been a top priority of town to prevent mafia from getting it.
I think that is something that anyone paying attention to the setup should have been looking for and anticipating, hoping that we had an IC so that we wouldn't have to worry about. But we don't have an IC. So now I am worried. I don't know if there is anything we can do, but I want to explore if there is anything rather than just hope for the best.
Now you can tell me if that is something you would do as town, but it is certainly something I would do and just did as town.
-
My vote on TWM: no one has mentioned the reason that I planted my vote. I quoted the post; I seriously believe only scum was even looking out for the possible IC announcement, and would be more likely by far to comment on the lack thereof. What town player came into D1 wondering about an IC? What's the Town motivation/narrative for that line of thought?
So that's my reasoning from what seems like ages ago.
I asked you for an explanation. So thanks for providing it now. I appreciate that, but please don't criticize us because it took you a long time to provide something asked for.
My concern is that we have the potential for a 2-shot vig that is owned by mafia. If I were mafia that is the slot I would have promoted going for my team had a stop slot. It would. 1. prevent an IC from town and 2. give mafia two extra night kills. It should have been a top priority of town to prevent mafia from getting it.
I think that is something that anyone paying attention to the setup should have been looking for and anticipating, hoping that we had an IC so that we wouldn't have to worry about. But we don't have an IC. So now I am worried. I don't know if there is anything we can do, but I want to explore if there is anything rather than just hope for the best.
Now you can tell me if that is something you would do as town, but it is certainly something I would do and just did as town.
Why do you think that it would have prevented town from having an IC? I mean, I get what you're saying, but I'm pretty certain that every town player, given the chance, would've taken 2-Shot Vig over IC. Therefore if scum got a top pick and won slot 1, it would be preventing a town 2-shot Vig, not an IC.
-
@gkrieg, I believe I found pps towny not because of defending people just in general and found you scummy. Then you calling pps out for defending people weirdly was actually something that seemed townie from you so then I was town on both of you very slightly. Then your defense of twm I found scummy. So it would mean I loosely find you scummy and loosely find pps towny. At this point there are way better lynches then either of you.
-
vote count please
-
Kidding btw, RR would be on the list of low posters. Also Jake. I keep forgetting he is even in this game, which is most unusual.
PPE 4
Hi I just caught up with the thread. I will vote almost anyone. Mcmc is my top scum read but I'm fine with lynching others.
-
Kidding btw, RR would be on the list of low posters. Also Jake. I keep forgetting he is even in this game, which is most unusual.
PPE 4
Hi I just caught up with the thread. I will vote almost anyone. Mcmc is my top scum read but I'm fine with lynching others.
So townie
-
@LaLight
Are you honestly saying Awaclus is voting for me because he finds me scummy? Let's call a spade a spade here, it's what he would want anyways.
He sincerely 100% believes you're scum at this point unless he is scum himself (maybe even in this case). It's Awaclus' style.
PPE: 1
I accept that you've played with him more but I still strongly disagree with your read of him as a person, using my own similar past actions as a reference.
I mean if you want you can look at him in M99 where he was scum and acted completely different.
Not really. Oh wait yeah sorta I do. I wanted to kill him in M99 and now I want to lynch him.
-
Galz how do you feel about eevee. Same question to eevee but vise versa.
-
Galz how do you feel about eevee. Same question to eevee but vise versa.
Give me a few. I'll switch my reread to him. I'm doing Gkrieg at the moment and getting serious gkrieg/Reggie confirmation bias... A complete change will be good for me.
-
I think you're thinking of someone else, unless you're interpreting something he said in a completely different way than I am - I see nothing relating to wagoning based on dumb arbitrary criteria from him.
To make reads easier, from this point until an undisclosed later time, I will automatically be scumreading anyone who votes gkrieg and townreading anyone who votes pps.
That's what I was referring to. I think we disagree semantically on whether that's promising wagoning on dumb arbitrary criteria, I guess.
No, I suppose you're correct on that. Just not the terms I thought of when he posted it. Further, at the TIME of his posting, it was his 8th post, and cemented the strange relationship he had going with gkrieg at the time (found in his 2nd, 4th, and 6th post) - which, while maybe all completely unrelated, caught my eye back then too (as my first directed question was to J Reggie regarding exactly that topic). All this is to say, at the time he posted this, it was unclear that it was in fact superficial. And when he stated later that he had "previously said that I will be making reads based on superficial reasons", A) He didn't point to that post, or any other as evidence of him making reads based on superficial reasons, and B) Even if he had, that post itself is NOT him "previously saying that he will be making reads based on superficial reasons", if anything it's simply him "making reads based on superficial reasons".
Anyway, perhaps it's all semantics. But stating "I have previously said I would be doing something", is VERY different to me than "I previously did something".
That said, for now, I'll let it sit while I reread some other people.
I mean, it's not like I suddenly started voting for or attacking anyone who voted for gkrieg. I specifically said, "this is what I'll be basing my reads off of for now" and it was a pretty superficial thing. I didn't use the word superficial but I shouldn't have had to. Then later I wanted to make it clear that no, I wasn't just voting for TWM because he was against gkrieg or whatever, this was an actual scum read independent of that. Hope that helps to clear things up.
-
I think you're thinking of someone else, unless you're interpreting something he said in a completely different way than I am - I see nothing relating to wagoning based on dumb arbitrary criteria from him.
To make reads easier, from this point until an undisclosed later time, I will automatically be scumreading anyone who votes gkrieg and townreading anyone who votes pps.
That's what I was referring to. I think we disagree semantically on whether that's promising wagoning on dumb arbitrary criteria, I guess.
No, I suppose you're correct on that. Just not the terms I thought of when he posted it. Further, at the TIME of his posting, it was his 8th post, and cemented the strange relationship he had going with gkrieg at the time (found in his 2nd, 4th, and 6th post) - which, while maybe all completely unrelated, caught my eye back then too (as my first directed question was to J Reggie regarding exactly that topic). All this is to say, at the time he posted this, it was unclear that it was in fact superficial. And when he stated later that he had "previously said that I will be making reads based on superficial reasons", A) He didn't point to that post, or any other as evidence of him making reads based on superficial reasons, and B) Even if he had, that post itself is NOT him "previously saying that he will be making reads based on superficial reasons", if anything it's simply him "making reads based on superficial reasons".
Anyway, perhaps it's all semantics. But stating "I have previously said I would be doing something", is VERY different to me than "I previously did something".
That said, for now, I'll let it sit while I reread some other people.
I mean, it's not like I suddenly started voting for or attacking anyone who voted for gkrieg. I specifically said, "this is what I'll be basing my reads off of for now" and it was a pretty superficial thing. I didn't use the word superficial but I shouldn't have had to. Then later I wanted to make it clear that no, I wasn't just voting for TWM because he was against gkrieg or whatever, this was an actual scum read independent of that. Hope that helps to clear things up.
Would you mind making clear which of the following two quotes "made it clear that no, I wasn't just voting for TWM because he was against gkrieg or whatever, this was an actual scum read independent of that."
vote: The_Wine_Merchant
Serious vote.
Is anybody else no longer able to automatically bold on mobile?
Not OMGUSing. But when people have to specify if it is a serious vote, that is suspicious. Why would anyone think this wasn't a serious vote?
RVS. Or if they're scum.
Three votes on me. Don't know why.
Because you're scum.
?
-
Right. Eevee.
Post #1 - Some fluff, buttering up O and me. The whole PSA talk and vote on Cuzz is a little weird - but mostly RVS, so nothing really noteworthy.
Post #2 - butters up LL.
Post #4 is VERY town Eevee - but I've also seen Scum Eevee play off that meta. So while it's a LITTLE towncred, it's not much:
It's easier if you just always scumread Eevee. That way he can't come back and get ya.
I never get anyone. Just a friendly, towny, all-around stand-up dude, no reason to worry about me.
I'm not in favor of any organized mass-claim, and I doubt it would work because people would simply refuse (or a lot of town lying). If people have roles they feel they should claim, can't they just do it at their own discretion?
PPE-edit:
Forgot to mention I'm town, that too.
The following, to my mind, is the first real post by Eevee that means anything:
I'm traveling for the day, back in the evening though.
I'm finding it hard to differentiate between town reads and people who I agree with.
I think accusing others of looking like scum caught for the wrong reasons might be starting to be a
scumtell, I feel it's been one of the easier arguments to push for myself in my recent scum games.
I agree very much with town reads and people I agree with getting crossed. That's something I'll need to be wary of. As someone pointed out, it's much easier for scum to appear pro-town than town - so finding myself agreeing with someone does NOT make them more or less likely to be town. As far as the last paragraph goes... I can't really say, having been out of the loop for 65 games. Is that a thing? Catching scum for the wrong reasons? Or is it a "made up" thing used by scum to get town lynched?
In the following post:
Eevee, 2.7, Gkrieg, Jim. What do you guys think about my recent thoughts on ozzle? Do you think he is pushing people to speculate so scum knows what townies may or may not have high draft slots. Or do you think he is just trying to find scum the best way he knows how?
I find the nickname confusing!
I'm not getting the scum vibes you are describing, I think he isn just trying to get the game moving and hunt for scum. O always had an unconventional style. I would give him a day 1 pass for activity alone.
I'll actually answer your question: I think the latter. It's weird, having played with O so long ago - but this O is VERY different to back then. He's much more measured and thought out, and WAY less reactionary. There's traces of old O in there... but I've found myself on the agreeing side with him much of the time this game - a rarity for our relationship. Now, to note based on my above thought - agreement does not indicate town/scum. But it is an interesting note based on our history. Not sure if it's just the time that's passed that's changed things, or if he's genuinely a different player. But I do like the way he's played so far.
A common theme from Eevee has definitely been his push on Lurkers. I don't know how that stands out against his recent meta, but he mentioned it in his PSA in his first post, brought it up in a different light later ("I feel this game will be easy to fall behind on"), and again recently "hence i would steer clear of lynching the most visible players. we can get the active people lately as well (and i'm saying this full well knowing i'm not one of the most active players)." --- If he's scum, he and his team are probably a little more active than not.
That said, I don't like sheep. Reasons people. Put your stances in writing please.
Vote: J Reggie
And... that's about all.
Overall there's a bit of fluff, a bit of talk (mostly about not lurking), and a few votes - some seem RVS, some not as much. Nothing too serious from him. He hasn't really made much of a case on anyone. Andrew is the closest thing - and while a good point, I'm not in much of a position to give it much merit or not. Overall I find Eevee pretty null.
-
Galz how do you feel about eevee. Same question to eevee but vise versa.
Give me a few. I'll switch my reread to him. I'm doing Gkrieg at the moment and getting serious gkrieg/Reggie confirmation bias... A complete change will be good for me.
Nothing from rereading me?
-
Galz: it was the "serious vote" part.
-
Galz how do you feel about eevee. Same question to eevee but vise versa.
Give me a few. I'll switch my reread to him. I'm doing Gkrieg at the moment and getting serious gkrieg/Reggie confirmation bias... A complete change will be good for me.
Nothing from rereading me?
I stopped and switched to Eevee. I keep getting confirmation bias on connections between you and J Reggie. Maybe I'm not crazy and it's a thing. But I know I'm seeing it because I want to see it, and I think rereading other people and coming back to you with a fresh view will be better for me. If I'm still seeing it then, maybe it's worth bringing up in detail. But I don't want to bog down the thread with my confirmation bias if that's all it is.
-
Galz: it was the "serious vote" part.
That would be reasonable had you explained your vote. Or your reasons. Or anything really. Maybe it's just a different style of play - but doing things and then going back and putting reasons to them later is scummy to me. It gives you time to see how everyone else reacts, and then make your explanation adjustments accordingly. It's a lot harder to defend a stated position than it is to make one up later imo
-
My vote on TWM: no one has mentioned the reason that I planted my vote. I quoted the post; I seriously believe only scum was even looking out for the possible IC announcement, and would be more likely by far to comment on the lack thereof. What town player came into D1 wondering about an IC? What's the Town motivation/narrative for that line of thought?
So that's my reasoning from what seems like ages ago.
I asked you for an explanation. So thanks for providing it now. I appreciate that, but please don't criticize us because it took you a long time to provide something asked for.
My concern is that we have the potential for a 2-shot vig that is owned by mafia. If I were mafia that is the slot I would have promoted going for my team had a stop slot. It would. 1. prevent an IC from town and 2. give mafia two extra night kills. It should have been a top priority of town to prevent mafia from getting it.
I think that is something that anyone paying attention to the setup should have been looking for and anticipating, hoping that we had an IC so that we wouldn't have to worry about. But we don't have an IC. So now I am worried. I don't know if there is anything we can do, but I want to explore if there is anything rather than just hope for the best.
Now you can tell me if that is something you would do as town, but it is certainly something I would do and just did as town.
Why do you think that it would have prevented town from having an IC? I mean, I get what you're saying, but I'm pretty certain that every town player, given the chance, would've taken 2-Shot Vig over IC. Therefore if scum got a top pick and won slot 1, it would be preventing a town 2-shot Vig, not an IC.
I guess I have a limited expectation on the utility of a 2-shot Vig. I would rather have an IC.
-
Hi I just caught up with the thread. I will vote almost anyone. Mcmc is my top scum read but I'm fine with lynching others.
Wow. This, right here, is why Jake is a favorite D1 mislynch. I have to say, especially in a game this size, this is often my attitude about D1 as well but I at least put in some damned effort. As unbelievable as it may seem, this reads like typical town!jake to me. I really want to policy punch the daylights out of it but my energy is better directed elsewhere.
-
Calam, RoadRunner, Jimmm - let's get some thoughts and opinions down plz. You three have not yet voted, nor really contributed much.
Jimmm: 1 post: "Hello"
RR: 14 posts. Some early stuff about not reading the thread, some stuff about being proud about propheting O's "I'm the 2-shot Vig", but no real reads or opinions on players ("Awaclus is town" aside)
Calam: 8 posts - decent questioning going on, but hasn't really posted his own thoughts.
-
Hi I just caught up with the thread. I will vote almost anyone. Mcmc is my top scum read but I'm fine with lynching others.
Wow. This, right here, is why Jake is a favorite D1 mislynch. I have to say, especially in a game this size, this is often my attitude about D1 as well but I at least put in some damned effort. As unbelievable as it may seem, this reads like typical town!jake to me. I really want to policy punch the daylights out of it but my energy is better directed elsewhere.
This is just Jake -- no alignment tells here. Not a good or helpful post, par for the first course.
-
Hi I just caught up with the thread. I will vote almost anyone. Mcmc is my top scum read but I'm fine with lynching others.
Wow. This, right here, is why Jake is a favorite D1 mislynch. I have to say, especially in a game this size, this is often my attitude about D1 as well but I at least put in some damned effort. As unbelievable as it may seem, this reads like typical town!jake to me. I really want to policy punch the daylights out of it but my energy is better directed elsewhere.
I'm going to actually post what I thought was scummy about mcmc when I got home just btw.
-
Having reread most of TWM now, I'm finding him fairly consistent. And I don't think his early speculation about IC/2-Shot Vig is all that off based on his beliefs. To be more clear, based on the following quote (and correct me if I'm wrong), you are suggesting that as town with draft #1 you would've taken IC over 2-shot Vig - not necessarily because IC is the better role, but because it would let town know that scum did not have the 2-shot Vig, as well as making an IC:
Why do you think that it would have prevented town from having an IC? I mean, I get what you're saying, but I'm pretty certain that every town player, given the chance, would've taken 2-Shot Vig over IC. Therefore if scum got a top pick and won slot 1, it would be preventing a town 2-shot Vig, not an IC.
I guess I have a limited expectation on the utility of a 2-shot Vig. I would rather have an IC.
This belief makes his early posts about feeling like it's more likely for scum to have a 2-shot Vig over town based on the lack of IC make more sense. I think it's WRONG, because I think town takes 2-shot Vig over IC every time, so the chances of that role going to scum or town are basically equal. But at least it explains the position and makes his previous posts read much more consistent.
-
Having reread most of TWM now, I'm finding him fairly consistent. And I don't think his early speculation about IC/2-Shot Vig is all that off based on his beliefs. To be more clear, based on the following quote (and correct me if I'm wrong), you are suggesting that as town with draft #1 you would've taken IC over 2-shot Vig - not necessarily because IC is the better role, but because it would let town know that scum did not have the 2-shot Vig, as well as making an IC:
Why do you think that it would have prevented town from having an IC? I mean, I get what you're saying, but I'm pretty certain that every town player, given the chance, would've taken 2-Shot Vig over IC. Therefore if scum got a top pick and won slot 1, it would be preventing a town 2-shot Vig, not an IC.
I guess I have a limited expectation on the utility of a 2-shot Vig. I would rather have an IC.
This belief makes his early posts about feeling like it's more likely for scum to have a 2-shot Vig over town based on the lack of IC make more sense. I think it's WRONG, because I think town takes 2-shot Vig over IC every time, so the chances of that role going to scum or town are basically equal. But at least it explains the position and makes his previous posts read much more consistent.
You are interpreting correctly. And to be clear, I wasn't trying to assert that my belief was absolutely correct. But wanted to have a discussion about it before making that declaration.
-
Calam, RoadRunner, Jimmm - let's get some thoughts and opinions down plz. You three have not yet voted, nor really contributed much.
Jimmm: 1 post: "Hello"
RR: 14 posts. Some early stuff about not reading the thread, some stuff about being proud about propheting O's "I'm the 2-shot Vig", but no real reads or opinions on players ("Awaclus is town" aside)
Calam: 8 posts - decent questioning going on, but hasn't really posted his own thoughts.
I really don't have thoughts. It's very unusual for me to have any reads so early at all because most stuff is just not alignment-indicative. And the bunch of unindicative fluff in here clearly does not help :(
-
TWM - Why did you call out Reggie for posting "Serious Vote", when much earlier gkrieg did the exact same thing?
vote: WW, because he is scum, and also hey everyone.
Serious vote: PPS. Doing a weird amount of defending, that one is.
-
TWM - Why did you call out Reggie for posting "Serious Vote", when much earlier gkrieg did the exact same thing?
vote: WW, because he is scum, and also hey everyone.
Serious vote: PPS. Doing a weird amount of defending, that one is.
I saw the vote on me because it was on me. I have no memory of seeing the vote on gkrieg and probably didn't pay very much attention to it. I tend to be someone self-centric. People have criticized me for it, but it tends to work out pretty well for me.
-
TWM - Why did you call out Reggie for posting "Serious Vote", when much earlier gkrieg did the exact same thing?
vote: WW, because he is scum, and also hey everyone.
Serious vote: PPS. Doing a weird amount of defending, that one is.
I saw the vote on me because it was on me. I have no memory of seeing the vote on gkrieg and probably didn't pay very much attention to it. I tend to be someone self-centric. People have criticized me for it, but it tends to work out pretty well for me.
This sounds like TWMese for "rarely am I town so I don't have a well developed town game"
-
TWM - Why did you call out Reggie for posting "Serious Vote", when much earlier gkrieg did the exact same thing?
vote: WW, because he is scum, and also hey everyone.
Serious vote: PPS. Doing a weird amount of defending, that one is.
I saw the vote on me because it was on me. I have no memory of seeing the vote on gkrieg and probably didn't pay very much attention to it. I tend to be someone self-centric. People have criticized me for it, but it tends to work out pretty well for me.
This sounds like TWMese for "rarely am I town so I don't have a well developed town game"
I have been mafia twice. Town three times (one completed game, one game ongoing and this game). I think my town game is pretty developed although it certainly is constantly in flux as I don't think I have found the perfect place yet, and doubt I ever will because I think the game changes too much itself. So obviously I could be better as I have made some dumb mistakes in the past, but my record currently indicates it is pretty good. So I don't think that is a fair thing to put into my mouth for me.
-
sudgy has exactly 1 post.
I have four posts. Five now. I also explained that I'm really busy.
Anyway, Vote: J Reggie (this will turn into an actual vote when the vote count comes and I see how many votes he has). I like Galzria's case on him, and I noticed that Reggie only replied to like two of Galzria's points. That's a great way to make it seem like you've refuted a case when you actually haven't.
I still think TWM is scummy.
Regarding mcmc, I seem to remember him seeming really scummy when he's town and then really towny when he's scum. However, this was years ago and might have changed. To anybody who's played with him recently, is this still how he seems?
I gotta go write a lab report now, bye.
-
So I don't think that is a fair thing to put into my mouth for me.
agreed, seems every game we've played you were scum. More to the point, the self-centric style fits a scum alignment far better than a town one because it is absolutely necessary to create alternate realities and you can only use yourself as the point of origin. Town is forced to assemble a picture from everyone's interactions with their selves being a relatively small piece of the puzzle (albeit a known one). That is, a self-centric approach works better the more information you already have to work with from your point of origin.
-
sudgy has exactly 1 post.
I have four posts. Five now. I also explained that I'm really busy.
Anyway, Vote: J Reggie (this will turn into an actual vote when the vote count comes and I see how many votes he has). I like Galzria's case on him, and I noticed that Reggie only replied to like two of Galzria's points. That's a great way to make it seem like you've refuted a case when you actually haven't.
I still think TWM is scummy.
Regarding mcmc, I seem to remember him seeming really scummy when he's town and then really towny when he's scum. However, this was years ago and might have changed. To anybody who's played with him recently, is this still how he seems?
I gotta go write a lab report now, bye.
You're correct on number of posts. And you had a vote out too. Sorry. Not sure why my ctrl-f didn't see them.
-
Regarding mcmc, I seem to remember him seeming really scummy when he's town and then really towny when he's scum. However, this was years ago and might have changed. To anybody who's played with him recently, is this still how he seems?
Yes, it's compounded by the fact that he is active about enlisting help on his crusades. He's like a faust wearing a cheerleader skirt and waving pompoms and armbands with swastikas.
-
Regarding mcmc, I seem to remember him seeming really scummy when he's town and then really towny when he's scum. However, this was years ago and might have changed. To anybody who's played with him recently, is this still how he seems?
Yes, it's compounded by the fact that he is active about enlisting help on his crusades. He's like a faust wearing a cheerleader skirt and waving pompoms and armbands with swastikas.
Oh the imagery!
-
Can anyone remind me of the efficient way to do postcounts on this forum?
-
Nevermind I got it
-
Nevermind I got it
Care to share? I've always wondered how people did that.
-
Nevermind I got it
Care to share? I've always wondered how people did that.
Show all the pages, then Ctrl+F.
-
Nevermind I got it
Care to share? I've always wondered how people did that.
Show all the pages, then Ctrl+F.
Find something that only shows up once for each of your posts (such as "username: sudgy")
-
Having reread most of TWM now, I'm finding him fairly consistent. And I don't think his early speculation about IC/2-Shot Vig is all that off based on his beliefs. To be more clear, based on the following quote (and correct me if I'm wrong), you are suggesting that as town with draft #1 you would've taken IC over 2-shot Vig - not necessarily because IC is the better role, but because it would let town know that scum did not have the 2-shot Vig, as well as making an IC:
Why do you think that it would have prevented town from having an IC? I mean, I get what you're saying, but I'm pretty certain that every town player, given the chance, would've taken 2-Shot Vig over IC. Therefore if scum got a top pick and won slot 1, it would be preventing a town 2-shot Vig, not an IC.
I guess I have a limited expectation on the utility of a 2-shot Vig. I would rather have an IC.
This belief makes his early posts about feeling like it's more likely for scum to have a 2-shot Vig over town based on the lack of IC make more sense. I think it's WRONG, because I think town takes 2-shot Vig over IC every time, so the chances of that role going to scum or town are basically equal. But at least it explains the position and makes his previous posts read much more consistent.
You are interpreting correctly. And to be clear, I wasn't trying to assert that my belief was absolutely correct. But wanted to have a discussion about it before making that declaration.
Isn't it absolutely incorrect given the way 11-13 work?
-
Having reread most of TWM now, I'm finding him fairly consistent. And I don't think his early speculation about IC/2-Shot Vig is all that off based on his beliefs. To be more clear, based on the following quote (and correct me if I'm wrong), you are suggesting that as town with draft #1 you would've taken IC over 2-shot Vig - not necessarily because IC is the better role, but because it would let town know that scum did not have the 2-shot Vig, as well as making an IC:
Why do you think that it would have prevented town from having an IC? I mean, I get what you're saying, but I'm pretty certain that every town player, given the chance, would've taken 2-Shot Vig over IC. Therefore if scum got a top pick and won slot 1, it would be preventing a town 2-shot Vig, not an IC.
I guess I have a limited expectation on the utility of a 2-shot Vig. I would rather have an IC.
This belief makes his early posts about feeling like it's more likely for scum to have a 2-shot Vig over town based on the lack of IC make more sense. I think it's WRONG, because I think town takes 2-shot Vig over IC every time, so the chances of that role going to scum or town are basically equal. But at least it explains the position and makes his previous posts read much more consistent.
You are interpreting correctly. And to be clear, I wasn't trying to assert that my belief was absolutely correct. But wanted to have a discussion about it before making that declaration.
Isn't it absolutely incorrect given the way 11-13 work?
That's a good point, and not even something I had considered.
-
Nevermind I got it
Care to share? I've always wondered how people did that.
Show all the pages, then Ctrl+F.
Find something that only shows up once for each of your posts (such as "username: sudgy")
I use "Posts: #", it's a unique tag for almost all players.
-
Nevermind I got it
Care to share? I've always wondered how people did that.
Show all the pages, then Ctrl+F.
Right, okay, that's how I do rereads. I just noticed that FireFox gives a match count, though.
-
if there will be no vote count, I'll make one in 30-40 minutes
-
I like what Galzria is doing with J Reggie.
Huh.. I didn't much like it. It seemed clear to me what JR had meant, and the questioning just seemed to be running at cross-purposes. That said, I think the exchange doesn't really leave either of them looking scummy.
I'm struggling with scumreads because the game is so big and players I don't know or can't read are some of the most active.
PPE quite a lot again.
-
I think that has proven to be townie for them actually. For once in my life I don't want to lynch Space!
Wow :o I think I might have to townread you for a bit.
-
or just now
Vote Count 1.LL
LaLight (1): SpaceAnemone
mcmcsalot (2): gkrieg, JaketheBaseballGod22
2.71828 (1): AndrewisFTTW
ashersky (1): iguanaiguana
J Reggie (5): Galzria, 2.7128...., Dylan32, The_Wine_Merchant, Eevee
The_Wine_Merchant (4): J Reggie, ashersky, sudgy, mcmcsalot
Awaclus (2): O, LaLight
sudgy (1): faust
O (1): Awaclus
iguanaiguana (1): Cuzz
AndrewisFTTW (1): pingpongsam
Not Voting (3): Calamitas, RoadRunner, Jimmmm
-
Don't think I ever got an answer from Andrew. Feeling like all I really have to do today is decide if faust and Andrew are town or not. Andrew because he's scary as scum and faust because he is controlling the game upon entrance.
TWM sheeping faust on voting sudgy looks terrible for both of them.
I think if I was scum you would have no problem picking me out, especially now that you have those two scum games to reference. Besides, you correctly picked me out as scum in M97. You give me too much credit.
-
Having reread most of TWM now, I'm finding him fairly consistent. And I don't think his early speculation about IC/2-Shot Vig is all that off based on his beliefs. To be more clear, based on the following quote (and correct me if I'm wrong), you are suggesting that as town with draft #1 you would've taken IC over 2-shot Vig - not necessarily because IC is the better role, but because it would let town know that scum did not have the 2-shot Vig, as well as making an IC:
Why do you think that it would have prevented town from having an IC? I mean, I get what you're saying, but I'm pretty certain that every town player, given the chance, would've taken 2-Shot Vig over IC. Therefore if scum got a top pick and won slot 1, it would be preventing a town 2-shot Vig, not an IC.
I guess I have a limited expectation on the utility of a 2-shot Vig. I would rather have an IC.
This belief makes his early posts about feeling like it's more likely for scum to have a 2-shot Vig over town based on the lack of IC make more sense. I think it's WRONG, because I think town takes 2-shot Vig over IC every time, so the chances of that role going to scum or town are basically equal. But at least it explains the position and makes his previous posts read much more consistent.
You are interpreting correctly. And to be clear, I wasn't trying to assert that my belief was absolutely correct. But wanted to have a discussion about it before making that declaration.
Isn't it absolutely incorrect given the way 11-13 work?
Hm. You might be right. I was under the impression that the 11-13 slots would be filled with roles from slots that hadn't been chosen. i.e. if IC had been picked then 2-shot vig and Investigation Immune wouldn't be available to fill slots 11-13.
-
Vote Count 1.8
LaLight (1): SpaceAnemone,
mcmcsalot (2): gkrieg, JaketheBaseballGod22
2.71828 (1): AndrewisFTTW
ashersky (1): iguanaiguana
J Reggie (5): Galzria, 2.7128...., Dylan32, The_Wine_Merchant, Eevee
The_Wine_Merchant (4): J Reggie, ashersky, sudgy, mcmcsalot
Awaclus (2): O, LaLight
sudgy (1): faust
O (1): Awaclus
iguanaiguana (1): Cuzz
AndrewisFTTW (1): pingpongsam
Not Voting (3): Calamitas, RoadRunner, Jimmmm,
With 23 alive it takes just 10 to lynch. Day 1 ends on Tuesday, May 23, at 10:00 AM Forum Time.
-
Don't think I ever got an answer from Andrew. Feeling like all I really have to do today is decide if faust and Andrew are town or not. Andrew because he's scary as scum and faust because he is controlling the game upon entrance.
TWM sheeping faust on voting sudgy looks terrible for both of them.
I think if I was scum you would have no problem picking me out, especially now that you have those two scum games to reference. Besides, you correctly picked me out as scum in M97. You give me too much credit.
Well, I like that you support my read on you. Please, join me in voting you as well!
-
Vote: mcmc
I don't feel the JR wagon, and I prefer mcmc over TWM, partly for the thing about not liking him telling me whether my vote was acceptable, and also because I like the theory/claiming side of the game, so his push against it didn't sit well with me. Oh, and he's got the only possibly-valid pointed-out scumslip in the game so far, unless I missed something more exciting when I was reading.
(Sorry for making your vote count outdated so quickly, LL!)
PPE 4, including a real Robz-provided count...
-
Oh, and he's got the only possibly-valid pointed-out scumslip in the game so far, unless I missed something more exciting when I was reading.
It wasn't even close to a scumslip.
-
ok, if Awaclus isn't happening, I'll return to vote: mcmc
-
Galz how do you feel about eevee. Same question to eevee but vise versa.
I missed Galzria! I don't think he looks scummy. I also don't think I would suspect anything if he was scum.
Fun fact: The worst I've ever been duped, it was Ozle's first murder mystery game (maybe my favorite game ever), I was some sort of a semi-cop, and had a QT with Galzria for some reason. I hadn't claimed, and was withholding my results from town, but felt so comfortable with Galzria in our QT, I told him what I had found out and asked for advice.
I didn't make it to the morning and never got to claim. Galzria was scum.
-
Regarding mcmc, I seem to remember him seeming really scummy when he's town and then really towny when he's scum. However, this was years ago and might have changed. To anybody who's played with him recently, is this still how he seems?
Yes, it's compounded by the fact that he is active about enlisting help on his crusades. He's like a faust wearing a cheerleader skirt and waving pompoms and armbands with swastikas.
I'm mildly hurt that I don't usually wear a cheerleader skirt in your mind.
-
Vote: J Reggie as promised
-
faust -
What? You guys are crazy. Catching up now.
As your first post, it probably means nothing really. But can you give detail to "What? You guys are crazy."? What were you referring to?
I hope you follow through with post counts. They were always favorites of mine. Maybe not at catching scum, but at least we can FoS people for not participating. It's a game! Play!
Please explain a little below - I don't know what "classic Reggie" means:
gkrieg, what do you think about pps as SK?
Classic Reggie.
Vote: J Reggie
Also this. Why should you not attempt to read mcmc?
I was happy with the cuzz' vote on me, it's exactly like the vote I make on other people super early in games. It was a non rvs vote and we are well in the swing of thing with legitimate interactions going on. I give cuzz town points for it even though he voted for a townie.
This is such a weird post.
I should probably not attempt to read mcmc.
faust, what is your success rate at catching scum d1? Because this post just feels really.... arrogant? I dunno. Just rubs me wrong. D1 for me isn't about catching scum - certainly we try - but rather it's about creating interactions that allow us to catch scum as the game goes on.
what even is day 1 "scumhunting"
It's what shows whether you're good at this game.
As far as faust's "On/Off the lynch table" stuffs go - I like it from a posting town/scum reads point of view - something to hold him to later. I dislike it because it's very.... I dunno. Steering? I feel like he's trying to steer town with them, and that reads more scummy than townie to me - at least, I think it's WAY easier to pull off as scum than as town. I get people have said (I think?) that those lists are town!faust... but that seems like a very manipulate-able thing.
Also, this just feels weird to me. You have feels, record said feels, but don't record why you have said feels?
I like what galz is doing, but I don't think J Reggie is scum for it.
Update on lynch pool removals:
RR
LaLight
TWM
iguana
O
mcmc
Andrew
ash
Why Andrew? And why mcmc? And why ash?
I get O.
I don't keep notes on these reads, I just put them in my QT as soon as I feel them.
And that wraps you up I suppose. More scummy than town, definitely. But not super vote worthy right now.
-
Calam, RoadRunner, Jimmm - let's get some thoughts and opinions down plz. You three have not yet voted, nor really contributed much.
Jimmm: 1 post: "Hello"
RR: 14 posts. Some early stuff about not reading the thread, some stuff about being proud about propheting O's "I'm the 2-shot Vig", but no real reads or opinions on players ("Awaclus is town" aside)
Calam: 8 posts - decent questioning going on, but hasn't really posted his own thoughts.
I really don't have thoughts. It's very unusual for me to have any reads so early at all because most stuff is just not alignment-indicative. And the bunch of unindicative fluff in here clearly does not help :(
This is 100% consistent with town and scum calamitous just so people who haven't played with him know. I actually don't know if I've seen scum calam but this is calam in a nutshell. He will post more as he gets more reads later.
-
@faust
Why do you think I'm scum?
-
As far as faust's "On/Off the lynch table" stuffs go - I like it from a posting town/scum reads point of view - something to hold him to later. I dislike it because it's very.... I dunno. Steering? I feel like he's trying to steer town with them, and that reads more scummy than townie to me - at least, I think it's WAY easier to pull off as scum than as town. I get people have said (I think?) that those lists are town!faust... but that seems like a very manipulate-able thing.
This is quintessential faust regardless of his alignment. Remember, no cheerleader skirt or pompoms but nevertheless he is on a crusade. Thing is, his reads are usually so good, especially as the game progresses, that it becomes very steering.
I don't see it as an alignment tell in and of itself because it is faust. Otherwise, I think the criticism largely holds.
As I said earlier, my main play today is to try and discern if either Andrew or faust are town or scum. I've not gotten any hard read on faust other than he is well within his meta regardless of alignment.
If I weren't in his lynch pool I would be way more suspicious of him.
-
Want to vote andrew with me?
-
I want to point out in my notes I have written down that eevee was defending jreggie early on and he is currently voting jreggie. I don't think galz caught that in his reread so maybe the defending of jreggie early was insignificant and granted tons have happened since then.
-
I don't remember defending Reggie.
-
I don't remember defending Reggie.
My first not is "Scummy: TWM, attacking JReggie, being defended by Gkrieg and eevee"
Followed by "Ash/Dylan support me" which I think is in reference to me pushing TWM. I should look back.
-
I don't remember defending Reggie.
My first not is "Scummy: TWM, attacking JReggie, being defended by Gkrieg and eevee"
Followed by "Ash/Dylan support me" which I think is in reference to me pushing TWM. I should look back.
I'll admit I didn't see anything of the sorts - but I may have missed it.
-
I would be willing to lynch Robz
We may try that!
We are averaging a page an hour, stop this even though it's fun. I'm counting every post like this from now on as scummy seriously. You want a 60 page day 1 because this is how you get it.
Ppe 2: you've seen me as scum a lot, together and as a mod. Do you think I'm playing like then or like m96?
"Do you want ants? Because this is how you get ants!"
Although I agree it's a little annoying because at this rate I'm never going to get caught up, what's really scummy here is you trying to dictate how everyone else should play this game and arbitrarily finding something scummy regardless of content just because you don't like it.
-
iguana will you do a reread of just twm and if you want me as well and then post your conclusions.
Innocent Child? We don't appear to have one? How worried should we be about mafia with a 2-shot vig?
This has been much talked about as a scummy post. But I don't think scum is this blatant.
Gkrieg gets it. unvote
Get's what everyone else already gets?
vote: mcmcsalot
This is a weird almost naked vote. Later he seems overly defensive for getting a few early votes on him.
mcmc did something townie. I don't remember what it was. Oh wait. I liked that he said we should take notes (maybe if I had taken notes I would have remembered that easier). Sure anyone can suggest it for towncred, I acknowledge that but he gets towncred anyway.
So, vote: sudgy
I'll sheep faust
Scummy self awareness. I write this kind of over-drafted hedging as scum a lot.
Later when he goes back to McMc with no reason given, that is the opposite though. If he's self-aware of how others will perceive his posts, I'd think he would try to produce a reason again. If he's just following his gut, though, he might not.
He switches to Awaclus, he switches to McMc, he switches to J Reggie. His votes are a little over the place, which is townie, but he also seems to be hopping on whatever is the biggest current wagon that isn't him, which could be scummy, although not very sophisticated.
The main reason I haven't voted TWM is because someone (I think Gkrieg) pointed out that he's been basically lynchbait in previous games, and since then I've been reading his play as lynchbait play, not scum. Plus, if he's scum, that should mean he'll be easy to catch later. All the setup talk is super lynch-baity. Like, who thinks that scum is really going to try to trick people into PR-slipping by having a setup discussion?
-
Right now I like Galzria's case on J Reggie.
Vote: J Reggie
-
gkrieg is making sense, and being helpful.
I don't like lynching TWM.
This insinuates you support twm who was the one against jreggie. Ugh my note must be bad
-
gkrieg is making sense, and being helpful.
I don't like lynching TWM.
mcmc. I think you misread your note. Eevee was defending me. Not JReggie.
-
I don't understand ppe and why I don't get them sometimes.
-
I wish I had time for more today, but I super don't! I'm going to go enjoy my evening and not think about who wants to lynch whom.
-
gkrieg is making sense, and being helpful.
I don't like lynching TWM.
mcmc. I think you misread your note. Eevee was defending me. Not JReggie.
Yea so was Gkrieg bad wording and note taking in my part.
-
Cuzz has a lot of posts! More than I thought he would when I pulled him up, which means he's posted a lot of unmemorable stuff (sorry - but it's true, at least for me!).
There's a lot of short posts, which is part of why he doesn't really stand out. Votes all over the place. mcmc, O, gkrieg, Ash, RR, Iguana... definitely jumps around - but hasn't really ever gone TO a wagon (he started the one on mcmc if I recall. Not positive his vote was #1).
I like that he's at least attempted to post a "reason" for each of his votes, varied as they are. And he's pushed/questioned others to defend making theirs. Definitely townie points in my eyes for that.
Actually... without wanting to drag up every post he's made, Cuzz is my strongest town read right now by far. I just like the way he's playing. Yes, his posts aren't long, but there's meat to many of them. And his thoughts on playstyle (and d1) and almost everything else mirror mine quite strongly. Some of that is NOT indicative of alignment of course - but I feel like a decent chunk is. If anybody wants exact quotes and examples of things he's said that I find towny, I'll be happy to provide.
-
I agree 100% with galz about cuzz, he's one of my top townreads as well.
-
Not reading a bunch of fluff might be anti fun, and it could even be anti town. My point is that posting a lot of stuff, regardless of what that stuff is, is scummy because gumming up the thread is an easy tactic to use here, and it's fairly effective.
This is so empirically anti-town I want us to lynch RR now.
You will hit an anti-town player, but I don't think you'll be hitting scum.
It's D1 and we're not likely going to lynch scum anyway. Lynching confirmed anti-town is worlds better than lynching a pro-town townie who just happened to get a wagon on them for nebulous "scumminess"
Towny^^
Why? He is essentially saying we should lynch people who aren't helpful instead of lynching scum. We still have a pretty good chance of hitting scum. And either way, it at least makes people choose sides. It isn't scummy or townie to try to lynch anti-town people. It just is. Which isn't helpful D1.
False.
Well we definitely have a better chance of lynching scum if we try to lynch scum instead of trying not to...
Part of a series of scummy posts from gkrieg. Not going to vote now because I don't know what the current vote count is. But at page 18 or so gkrieg just seems to be trying very hard to seem pro-town and such.
What would I do differently as town?
Well I just meant it looks like in this game you're a little more cheerleadery and less defiant in your reads. Not the best explanation but that's just the vibe I'm getting.
-
Aaaand... that's about all I have the energy for right now!
I'll be away/at work until around 11:30pm forum time, so don't go too crazy without me. I'll follow along on mobile, but don't expect much back from me until then.
-
Stuff
How does one look like an IC? And you think all four of those people are scum?
No, no, no.
Let's go point by point.
1) That's what I call "look like IC": You're active in townie way and lead the town and 90% of players townread you.
2) "Cuzz is hard to read, all those guys looking like ICs who are scum in the end" - I meant only Cuzz concerning this game, not all 4 people. "All those guys" is because there were many games where faust did the same thing, or Robz.
3) I don't necessarily think he is scum, it's just I an always wary about such players and I don't let myself be blinded by their activeness and towniness.
PPE: 5
PPE: 1 while typing "PPE: 5"
This seems pretty straightforward and Andrew's bafflement strikes me as incredibly disingenuous.
I'm still somewhat confused but whatever.
-
This gkrieg is the "ask single questions in response to posts about me as if I were faust" gkrieg. So, in a word, scum.
I don't believe I do that as scum. It's better than the absent gkrieg.
At least you aren't contesting the observation.
I don't know that you've done it on purpose as scum. I do believe that you believe that when faust does it, he's towny. And that you've internalized the notion of that action equaling townies, and that it could subconsciously affect your play.
I do think that it is townie when faust does it. I also think that is because it gets information out of people that they otherwise can hide. I think asking questions gives more chance of people slipping up than not asking questions. It also just depends on the mood I'm in that day.
Sounds like scum trying to pass this off as just another towny day for gkrieg. Nothing to see here. Move along.
I'm not sure what you mean here.
Again, I don't have the best explanation and it's more gut but it looks to me like ash points something out and you do the whole "you are correct, excellent observation. [insert very non-confrontational pro-town idea here]" thing. Not a lot of effort on your part.
-
Space, lalaight, and iguana will you do a reread of just twm and if you want me as well and then post your conclusions. I find all of you towny, and I find all of your votes in bad places.
On the other hand space if you would like to do a lalight reread and explain why you find him scummy I'll take that as well.
Eevee, jimm, 2.7, Gkrieg, still want you to weigh in on O (whose not ozzle, so I know less about him then I thought)
My LL vote was RVS. But even if it wasn't, the beauty of it being my vote is that you don't get a say in how valid it is. I also get alarm bells when players try to police others' play quite that much.
I'll have more time for reading later.. I'm at work from about 5am-2pm+ forum time, and in general this week that means being too busy to keep up with the thread during work hours, except maybe on a lunch break. Sorry if that's annoying for people :-(
Huh. PPE 61... that's what I get for trying to respond from work.
Hey space got strangely defense of me calling them out. I simple saw your vote on lalight whom I was viewing towny and hadn't heard from you in awhile so I was giving you something to discuss and hoping your vote could be added to a wagon that is currently relevant. I get alarm bells when players get defensive about explaining their votes. Would possibly vote space.
Space being defensive is not strange at all. I'm surprised you would take it that way.
-
slightly outdated post count as promised:
O 95
Cuzz 81
gkrieg 78
The_Wine_Merchant 68
mcmcsalot 61
JReggie 59
LaLight 55
2.71828..... 37
faust 33
pingpongsam 33
Awaclus 31
Dylan32 28
Galzria 26
ashersky 20
iguanaiguana 19
Eevee 17
JaketheBaseballGod22 17
RoadRunner 14
AndrewisFTTW 11
Calamitas 9
SpaceAnemone 7
sudgy 6
Jimmmmm 1
(had just finished this when i got bombarded with 90 minutes of office hours questions)
ppe: 45 ughh
-
Galz: it was the "serious vote" part.
That would be reasonable had you explained your vote. Or your reasons. Or anything really. Maybe it's just a different style of play - but doing things and then going back and putting reasons to them later is scummy to me. It gives you time to see how everyone else reacts, and then make your explanation adjustments accordingly. It's a lot harder to defend a stated position than it is to make one up later imo
I'm ok with this. I did it like I did it for a reason; I wanted to see how TWM reacted. Probably not the best play on my part but I wasn't thinking about not getting myself lynched, I was thinking about lynching scum.
-
ok, if Awaclus isn't happening, I'll return to vote: mcmc
Agree with the vote, but it's a little early to be doing the "if x isn't happening, back to y". So FOS: LaLight
-
So I'm at L-3 right now which is kind of bigger than it sounds with this many people. If I get to L-1, then:
don't hammer me, I have a plan.
-
ok, if Awaclus isn't happening, I'll return to vote: mcmc
Agree with the vote, but it's a little early to be doing the "if x isn't happening, back to y". So FOS: LaLight
I meant actually that i have seen a thing that in my eyes was a scumslip, but no one tried seemed to think it is one, so I don't see a point. It was a weak slip anyway
-
So I'm at L-3 right now which is kind of bigger than it sounds with this many people. If I get to L-1, then:
don't hammer me, I have a plan.
Why do we have to wait until L-1 to hear such a plan?
-
Normally I wouldn't ask such a question, but I think I remember you doing something like this as scum before
-
So I'm at L-3 right now which is kind of bigger than it sounds with this many people. If I get to L-1, then:
don't hammer me, I have a plan.
Why do we have to wait until L-1 to hear such a plan?
It involves me claiming and I don't want to do that if I don't have to.
-
ok, if Awaclus isn't happening, I'll return to vote: mcmc
Agree with the vote, but it's a little early to be doing the "if x isn't happening, back to y". So FOS: LaLight
I meant actually that i have seen a thing that in my eyes was a scumslip, but no one tried seemed to think it is one, so I don't see a point. It was a weak slip anyway
What scumslip?
-
Want to vote andrew with me?
See, I thought we were doing that but then it looked like I was all alone, but yeah, I was already doing that before it was cool.
-
So I'm at L-3 right now which is kind of bigger than it sounds with this many people. If I get to L-1, then:
don't hammer me, I have a plan.
Why do we have to wait until L-1 to hear such a plan?
It involves me claiming and I don't want to do that if I don't have to.
So what this means is don't hammer me until I can claim...like always...
-
vote: J Reggie
-
ok, if Awaclus isn't happening, I'll return to vote: mcmc
Agree with the vote, but it's a little early to be doing the "if x isn't happening, back to y". So FOS: LaLight
I meant actually that i have seen a thing that in my eyes was a scumslip, but no one tried seemed to think it is one, so I don't see a point. It was a weak slip anyway
What scumslip?
Sorry, phoneposting so no quotes. find my vote for him and it's couple of posts above
-
I think Reginald is L-3 which is normally not a big deal but there's a lot more potential votes floating around this game.
-
Unvote
Even though Reggie just pulled something like this as scum, I'm not so sure he is here.
-
Back to Vote: Andrew while I'm at it.
-
I think Reginald is L-3 which is normally not a big deal but there's a lot more potential votes floating around this game.
What potential votes? The only weird voting role I see is the Restless Sheeper.
-
Hammer hero too.
-
I think Reginald is L-3 which is normally not a big deal but there's a lot more potential votes floating around this game.
What potential votes? The only weird voting role I see is the Restless Sheeper.
Also, like, there are a bunch of players.
-
Hammer hero too.
It doesn't get extra votes thrown around, though. I was replying to PPS's worry that extra votes could come in.
-
I think Reginald is L-3 which is normally not a big deal but there's a lot more potential votes floating around this game.
What potential votes? The only weird voting role I see is the Restless Sheeper.
Also, like, there are a bunch of players.
Yeah, that.
-
I plan on voting J Reggie when I'm able to pay closer attention, so treat him as pseudo L-2.
-
What did J Reggie pull?
looks
The gkrieg/pps thing? Looks pretty RVSy.
-
I would be fine with lynching jreggie. So maybe do that plan. But we also have people who haven't posted in a long time. Though I don't expect lots of people who are behind to catch up and support ending the day quickly.
-
Can we please not end this Day before we've at least gotten past the weekend?
-
Can we please not end this Day before we've at least gotten past the weekend?
agreed
-
Can someone voting for JReggie present the case in a nytshell?
-
But seriously, does anyone see this as an elaborate bus between TWM and mcmc?
You can look into I believe I have never ever bussed in my entire career of mafia. I may have done it once. Bussing is never ever ever a good option for scum in my opinion. That is well documented
But this is basically the same argument ash gave after bussing me in gravity falls and it totally worked.
Never trust what ash says about what he'd do as scum.
-
Can someone voting for JReggie present the case in a nytshell?
-
Don't think I ever got an answer from Andrew. Feeling like all I really have to do today is decide if faust and Andrew are town or not. Andrew because he's scary as scum and faust because he is controlling the game upon entrance.
TWM sheeping faust on voting sudgy looks terrible for both of them.
I think if I was scum you would have no problem picking me out, especially now that you have those two scum games to reference. Besides, you correctly picked me out as scum in M97. You give me too much credit.
Well, I like that you support my read on you. Please, join me in voting you as well!
Nope, I don't support your read. I posted that before seeing you voted me so I didn't know you were scum reading me at the time.
But seriously though, don't lynch me. Not today at least. Maybe tomorrow. Kthx.
-
I don't have a major problem with anything JR has said. Sure, some of it's a bit weird but that's kind of what we need on Day 1.
-
Still not totally caught up yet but I do agree with ash about gkrieg. He just seems a little off and not like his assertive scumhunting town self.
Vote: gkrieg
-
Still not totally caught up yet but I do agree with ash about gkrieg. He just seems a little off and not like his assertive scumhunting town self.
Vote: gkrieg
So you have been combing through only my posts earlier today, so why do you decide to vote for me now?
-
I don't have a major problem with anything JR has said. Sure, some of it's a bit weird but that's kind of what we need on Day 1.
I'm not even sure what this is supposed to mean. Do you think J Reggie is townie or scummy?
-
Not loving Jimmmm coming in and putting a damper on the one thing that we kinda have going in a day where it is difficult to get things going, especially when he doesn't provide an alternative. Easy to criticize, hard to provide substance.
-
Can we please not end this Day before we've at least gotten past the weekend?
Why?
-
Can we please not end this Day before we've at least gotten past the weekend?
Why?
It means some people have no time to post on the weekend, so let's not end the day before they can get their bearings. At least from my perspective.
-
Do you think J Reggie is townie or scummy?
No.
-
Easy to criticize, hard to provide substance.
Who did I criticise? Otherwise, you're not wrong. The game has lasted less than 36 hours so far, which for me has consisted of sleep, work, busy evening, sleep, work. Easy is all you're getting from me for now, but it's a lot better than nothing.
-
Easy to criticize, hard to provide substance.
Who did I criticise? Otherwise, you're not wrong. The game has lasted less than 36 hours so far, which for me has consisted of sleep, work, busy evening, sleep, work. Easy is all you're getting from me for now, but it's a lot better than nothing.
true dat
-
Can we please not end this Day before we've at least gotten past the weekend?
Why?
Well, a) we have 7 days. Let's use more than 2. There's no need to rush. b) I've probably read about 1/3 of the posts so far, and I'm guessing I'm not completely alone. I would really appreciate having a chance to catch up before the end of the Day.
-
I don't think what Jimmm is asking is unreasonable.
-
That is fair. But I am of the opinion that the day ends when it ends. We don't have to, nor should we expect everyone to be caught up at the time of the lynch. I am not saying we need to lynch know, but I would not be sad if we did in the next few days and think stalling the game or unnecessarily delaying it for a few would be more harmful. I would hate to see a scum squirm out of a lynch in the name of getting everyone caught up.
-
Not loving Jimmmm coming in and putting a damper on the one thing that we kinda have going in a day where it is difficult to get things going, especially when he doesn't provide an alternative. Easy to criticize, hard to provide substance.
Because of course there wasn't you getting some heat or anything...
-
Not loving Jimmmm coming in and putting a damper on the one thing that we kinda have going in a day where it is difficult to get things going, especially when he doesn't provide an alternative. Easy to criticize, hard to provide substance.
Because of course there wasn't you getting some heat or anything...
Something, something, something, witticism, something, something.
-
Totally agree with Logan. Even arguing with that request is scummy, I mean, wtf. I presumed we wouldn't just be idiots about it but I guess there's enough of us here to make that an idiotic presumption. Glad he has shown up and seems interested in the game, he's one of my favorites to play with regardless of his alignment.
-
I plan on voting J Reggie when I'm able to pay closer attention, so treat him as pseudo L-2.
Hahahaha, I'm not the only one, lol, love it. I mean, I don't rightly care about the Regina wagon but the whole thing about claiming intent to hammer well before the wagon end appears.
-
Totally agree with Logan. Even arguing with that request is scummy, I mean, wtf. I presumed we wouldn't just be idiots about it but I guess there's enough of us here to make that an idiotic presumption. Glad he has shown up and seems interested in the game, he's one of my favorites to play with regardless of his alignment.
Please don't call me an idiot. Thanks.
-
Unvote don't want to get too close to ending day.
-
Totally agree with Logan.
...Oh, that's me!
Even arguing with that request is scummy, I mean, wtf. I presumed we wouldn't just be idiots about it but I guess there's enough of us here to make that an idiotic presumption.
Thanks for taking my side, but please remember the civility pledge.
Glad he has shown up and seems interested in the game, he's one of my favorites to play with regardless of his alignment.
I think you're still talking about me. Thanks! :) I'm trying my best.
-
Unvote don't want to get too close to ending day.
wut
-
Unvote don't want to get too close to ending day.
Vote: The_Wine_Merchant that was way too fast
-
Unvote don't want to get too close to ending day.
wut
I know, right? Stick to your reads. Tip-toeing around acting concerned about lynching here feels very fake
-
My passive aggressive irony is being greatly lost on people.
-
My passive aggressive irony is being greatly lost on people.
Scummy jokes are scummy
-
My passive aggressive irony is being greatly lost on people.
Scummy jokes are scummy
That sounds dumb.
-
Still not totally caught up yet but I do agree with ash about gkrieg. He just seems a little off and not like his assertive scumhunting town self.
Vote: gkrieg
So you have been combing through only my posts earlier today, so why do you decide to vote for me now?
Because I wanted to make sure you didn't have some crazy random wagon on you in case of a derphammer.
-
So I'm at L-3 right now which is kind of bigger than it sounds with this many people. If I get to L-1, then:
don't hammer me, I have a plan.
I would love to hear this plan
-
Still not totally caught up yet but I do agree with ash about gkrieg. He just seems a little off and not like his assertive scumhunting town self.
Vote: gkrieg
So you have been combing through only my posts earlier today, so why do you decide to vote for me now?
Because I wanted to make sure you didn't have some crazy random wagon on you in case of a derphammer.
I would also say that I'm definitely being my assertive, scum-hunting self. Where are you not seeing that?
-
Vote Count 1.9
mcmcsalot (3): JaketheBaseballGod22, SpaceAnemone, LaLight
J Reggie (6): Galzria, 2.7128...., Dylan32, The_Wine_Merchant, iguanaiguana, gkrieg13
The_Wine_Merchant (4): J Reggie, ashersky, mcmcsalot, sudgy
Awaclus (1): O
sudgy (1): faust
O (1): Awaclus
iguanaiguana (1): Cuzz
AndrewisFTTW (2): pingpongsam, Eevee
gkrieg13 (1): AndrewisFTTW
Not Voting (3): Calamitas, RoadRunner7671, Jimmmmm,
With 23 alive it takes just 10 to lynch. Day 1 ends on Tuesday, May 23, at 10:00 AM Forum Time.
-
I haven't voted yet today, which is a classic RR scum tell.
I don't really like Reggie's wagon or TWM's wagon, I'd prefer Mcmc's I guess.
I think the optimal place to have a wagon is someone who will interact with a lot of people while under pressure, like maybe iguanaiguana.
-
I'm roughly 20 pages behind and am going VLA for the next couple days before I'll be able to catch up unless I am able to take some time to read during my time as a passenger. I'll check back in a few hours for an answer, but considering I don't know anything that is going on for context, should I unvote until I can catch up in a couple days? Thanks, and sorry I won't be here for a while.
-
I plan on voting J Reggie when I'm able to pay closer attention, so treat him as pseudo L-2.
Hahahaha, I'm not the only one, lol, love it. I mean, I don't rightly care about the Regina wagon but the whole thing about claiming intent to hammer well before the wagon end appears.
pps, can we use people's actual names please?
-
I'm roughly 20 pages behind and am going VLA for the next couple days before I'll be able to catch up unless I am able to take some time to read during my time as a passenger. I'll check back in a few hours for an answer, but considering I don't know anything that is going on for context, should I unvote until I can catch up in a couple days? Thanks, and sorry I won't be here for a while.
Naw, don't worry about it. If I'm going to be lynched it won't be your fault.
-
I plan on voting J Reggie when I'm able to pay closer attention, so treat him as pseudo L-2.
Hahahaha, I'm not the only one, lol, love it. I mean, I don't rightly care about the Regina wagon but the whole thing about claiming intent to hammer well before the wagon end appears.
pps, can we use people's actual names please?
Asking pps to use people's actual names is almost like asking Awaclus to be reasonable.
-
And that wasn't meant as a personal attack on either of them, just a comment on their playstyles.
-
Would lynch today (more or less in order):
Roadrunner
Andrew
Calamitas
Awaclus
Space
Would not lynch today:
Galz
O
faust
pps
Eevee
Vote: Roadrunner again for this
I haven't voted yet today, which is a classic RR scum tell.
because I hate it.
-
I guess the day goes as the day goes and the lynch occurs when the lycnh occurs. If you haven't caught up to the end of the day.. Well, you have all night to read it to this point. There is a reason we have 10 votes to lynch instead of 13.
-
As your first post, it probably means nothing really. But can you give detail to "What? You guys are crazy."? What were you referring to?
20 pages in a couple of hours.
gkrieg, what do you think about pps as SK?
Classic Reggie.
Vote: J Reggie
Doing something that is a classic scum tell (SK hunting in this case) on purpose is something that I have seen J Reggie do multiple times.
Also this. Why should you not attempt to read mcmc?
I was happy with the cuzz' vote on me, it's exactly like the vote I make on other people super early in games. It was a non rvs vote and we are well in the swing of thing with legitimate interactions going on. I give cuzz town points for it even though he voted for a townie.
This is such a weird post.
I should probably not attempt to read mcmc.
The last two games where I was town and mcmc scum ended badly due to me misreading him.
faust, what is your success rate at catching scum d1? Because this post just feels really.... arrogant? I dunno. Just rubs me wrong. D1 for me isn't about catching scum - certainly we try - but rather it's about creating interactions that allow us to catch scum as the game goes on.
I checked the records through M78 (should really update that page).
Correct D1 lynch % in general is 25,64 %
Correct D1 lynch % in games where I was town: 33,33 %
I was on 7 of the 8 correct D1 lynch wagons that occured during my town games.
I know some people don't think D1 is good for catching scum. I certainly think so. It's just more challenging. And I don't mean to be arrogant, I think a lot of people could be more successful with this if they changed their attitude.
-
@faust
Why do you think I'm scum?
I don't remember you much, and that is a scum tell for you.
-
Actually... without wanting to drag up every post he's made, Cuzz is my strongest town read right now by far. I just like the way he's playing. Yes, his posts aren't long, but there's meat to many of them. And his thoughts on playstyle (and d1) and almost everything else mirror mine quite strongly. Some of that is NOT indicative of alignment of course
I don't really think any of that is indicative of alignment. Could ypu pull some quotes (unless you've already done so, not cuaght up yet)?
-
I.. have no idea why, but I fell like faust is scum. I need to think about it
-
Galz
O
faust
pps
Eevee
Is this more than "people I played with before, plus faust"?
-
Unvote don't want to get too close to ending day.
Vote: The_Wine_Merchant that was way too fast
What's that supposed to mean?
-
Asking pps to use people's actual names is almost like asking Awaclus to be reasonable.
Hypocritical?
-
Vote Count 1.9
mcmcsalot (3): JaketheBaseballGod22, SpaceAnemone, LaLight
J Reggie (6): Galzria, 2.7128...., Dylan32, The_Wine_Merchant, iguanaiguana, gkrieg13
The_Wine_Merchant (4): J Reggie, ashersky, mcmcsalot, sudgy
Awaclus (1): O
sudgy (1): faust
O (1): Awaclus
iguanaiguana (1): Cuzz
AndrewisFTTW (2): pingpongsam, Eevee
gkrieg13 (1): AndrewisFTTW
Not Voting (3): Calamitas, RoadRunner7671, Jimmmmm,
With 23 alive it takes just 10 to lynch. Day 1 ends on Tuesday, May 23, at 10:00 AM Forum Time.
People who are voting mcmc/Andrew: what's up with that?
Cuzz: Do you think your vote is in the best possible place right now?
People on the J Reggie wagon:
a) Can you outline how your read on J Reggie evolved over the course of the game so far?
b) Who of your fellow wagoners do you think has the highest chance of flipping scum?
-
Vote Count 1.9
mcmcsalot (3): JaketheBaseballGod22, SpaceAnemone, LaLight
J Reggie (6): Galzria, 2.7128...., Dylan32, The_Wine_Merchant, iguanaiguana, gkrieg13
The_Wine_Merchant (4): J Reggie, ashersky, mcmcsalot, sudgy
Awaclus (1): O
sudgy (1): faust
O (1): Awaclus
iguanaiguana (1): Cuzz
AndrewisFTTW (2): pingpongsam, Eevee
gkrieg13 (1): AndrewisFTTW
Not Voting (3): Calamitas, RoadRunner7671, Jimmmmm,
With 23 alive it takes just 10 to lynch. Day 1 ends on Tuesday, May 23, at 10:00 AM Forum Time.
People who are voting mcmc/Andrew: what's up with that?
Cuzz: Do you think your vote is in the best possible place right now?
People on the J Reggie wagon:
a) Can you outline how your read on J Reggie evolved over the course of the game so far?
b) Who of your fellow wagoners do you think has the highest chance of flipping scum?
I have made a case a whhile ago about weird mcmc's stance on TWM and strange change of opinion.
-
I see. Thank you.
-
I see. Thank you.
What do you think?
-
Unvote don't want to get too close to ending day.
Vote: The_Wine_Merchant that was way too fast
What's that supposed to mean?
His case is that TWM switched from criticizing Jim for asking us not to end the day too soon to unvoting in order to stall the end of day at an unnaturally fast rate.
-
People who are voting mcmc/Andrew: what's up with that?
I posted my reasoning at #974, but I'm not at all confident in any reads yet :-(
-
I see. Thank you.
What do you think?
I think there's not a lot to gain for scum!mcmc by jumping on the TWM wagon.
-
People who are voting mcmc/Andrew: what's up with that?
I posted my reasoning at #974, but I'm not at all confident in any reads yet :-(
What scumslip are you referring to in #974?
-
Unvote don't want to get too close to ending day.
Vote: The_Wine_Merchant that was way too fast
What's that supposed to mean?
His case is that TWM switched from criticizing Jim for asking us not to end the day too soon to unvoting in order to stall the end of day at an unnaturally fast rate.
And you know this how?
-
Unvote don't want to get too close to ending day.
Vote: The_Wine_Merchant that was way too fast
What's that supposed to mean?
His case is that TWM switched from criticizing Jim for asking us not to end the day too soon to unvoting in order to stall the end of day at an unnaturally fast rate.
And you know this how?
Nevermind, the context is actually quite clear. Somehow I missed this before.
-
Question for faust: in RMM37, which you modded, I had what I thought was a really workable strategy about claiming the order of our night actions, because the question of who had precedence was quite important when looking at the things that had happened. Do you think it's really obvious in this game that claiming the bidding order would be a bad thing overall (clearly it's bad for particular players/roles in isolation), or is there a case to be made for it along similar lines? Cal, I'd also be interested in your personal conclusion on this! Feel free to respond in non-specific ways; I'm more interested in knowing that you've thought the possibility through than seeing all your working in-thread for now.
-
Question for faust: in RMM37, which you modded, I had what I thought was a really workable strategy about claiming the order of our night actions, because the question of who had precedence was quite important when looking at the things that had happened. Do you think it's really obvious in this game that claiming the bidding order would be a bad thing overall (clearly it's bad for particular players/roles in isolation), or is there a case to be made for it along similar lines? Cal, I'd also be interested in your personal conclusion on this! Feel free to respond in non-specific ways; I'm more interested in knowing that you've thought the possibility through than seeing all your working in-thread for now.
In my opinion, the point of very early claiming is to put scum under pressure by having them commit to a fakeclaim that will restrict their ability to make stuff up later on. Bidding order is not something that they could safely fake even later in the game, plus it's not even alignment-indicative, so I don't really know what the benefit of this would be.
-
People who are voting mcmc/Andrew: what's up with that?
I posted my reasoning at #974, but I'm not at all confident in any reads yet :-(
What scumslip are you referring to in #974?
It's this:
(This is something I told twm to do in our first mafia game together, let townies enhance your case for you)
I know it's terribly weak evidence, but I do think it's something he is actually more likely to think/say if the two of them have drawn scum together more than once, which makes it technically alignment-indicative, in a very marginal sort of way.
-
Bidding order is not something that they could safely fake even later in the game
This is not technically true; they'll know each other's bidding orders by now, at least within the mafia faction. Plus, I'm assuming bidding order doesn't flip with a player, meaning with the info scum has, they're more likely to be able to infer a named PR's bidding order than we are.
plus it's not even alignment-indicative, so I don't really know what the benefit of this would be.
It adds a load of constraints about who could have claimed what slot, and those constraints get tighter as the game goes on and people flip. The cool thing is that scum probably went for scum-beneficial PRs, so if there's a clear towny PR in a slot we know they must have selected, and they can't prove they have that PR, we've got them cornered. So we get to hold the threat of slot-claiming over scum, and in terms of adding setup constraints to boost our ability to solve things later on, I think it's a clear benefit. The question for me is just whether that benefit outweighs the cost of outing a few of the highest-ranked people as possible/probable PRs. I don't see why the fausts and Cals of this game aren't at least discussing the idea.
(I do get why the 2.7s of the game aren't... e and I have a big TvT spat about this sort of constraint-driven approach in RMM37 and we lost, so I'm not saying it's a clear strategy, just one that I'm surprised people aren't at least looking at).
-
I read Galz's take on Faust as someone who's just unfamiliar with Faust. Everything he said is basically just faust's Wikipedia page.
If anything, Faust is feeling town. I think galz's read on Faust is honest, which deserves some Town points.
-
I read Galz's take on Faust as someone who's just unfamiliar with Faust. Everything he said is basically just faust's Wikipedia page.
If anything, Faust is feeling town. I think galz's read on Faust is honest, which deserves some Town points.
Agree on all this. While you're on a roll care to elaborate on why you, yourself, are acting way outside your meta, especially your town meta? Town ashersky has a plan...
-
The cool thing is that scum probably went for scum-beneficial PRs, so if there's a clear towny PR in a slot we know they must have selected, and they can't prove they have that PR, we've got them cornered.
Relevant anecdote: When the predecessor of this setup was run, mafia!ashersky went for the role "Mafia Cop" over some other role in the same slot that would have benefitted their team more because he felt that he had to choose the thing a townie would choose.
Also this made him a Mafia Mafia Cop, so maybe he was just being hilarious.
-
This is not technically true; they'll know each other's bidding orders by now, at least within the mafia faction. Plus, I'm assuming bidding order doesn't flip with a player, meaning with the info scum has, they're more likely to be able to infer a named PR's bidding order than we are.
It's not technically true, but it's practically true. They can interchange each other's slots, but risking a counterclaim will pretty much always outweigh the benefits of claiming a place in bidding order that you don't actually have. At least until close to MyLo.
-
I read Galz's take on Faust as someone who's just unfamiliar with Faust. Everything he said is basically just faust's Wikipedia page.
If anything, Faust is feeling town. I think galz's read on Faust is honest, which deserves some Town points.
Agree on all this. While you're on a roll care to elaborate on why you, yourself, are acting way outside your meta, especially your town meta? Town ashersky has a plan...
Honestly, I'm just super busy IRL and this game is a bear to keep up with.
As for plans -- I'm generally anti-claiming, as I think it gives scum (specifically mafia) way more benefit than town. Like, someone's supposed preferred slot doesn't really give me any useful information about their alignment. Scum won't claim the wrong slot, unless they are trying to out someone, and in a regular game there's no PR that I wouldn't trade for confirming scum. Bidding order only tangentially matter to confirming likelihood of claims, which again, seems low utility.
With so many variables and players, there's not much expectation of a plan working or being followed.
So, no plan, other than read people, find scum, win MVP.
-
The cool thing is that scum probably went for scum-beneficial PRs, so if there's a clear towny PR in a slot we know they must have selected, and they can't prove they have that PR, we've got them cornered.
Relevant anecdote: When the predecessor of this setup was run, mafia!ashersky went for the role "Mafia Cop" over some other role in the same slot that would have benefitted their team more because he felt that he had to choose the thing a townie would choose.
Also this made him a Mafia Mafia Cop, so maybe he was just being hilarious.
Hehe :-) Which other players do you think would play like that, of this set, if they drew mafia? Is it enough that we ought to assume they're taking the safe strategy by default?
-
The cool thing is that scum probably went for scum-beneficial PRs, so if there's a clear towny PR in a slot we know they must have selected, and they can't prove they have that PR, we've got them cornered.
Relevant anecdote: When the predecessor of this setup was run, mafia!ashersky went for the role "Mafia Cop" over some other role in the same slot that would have benefitted their team more because he felt that he had to choose the thing a townie would choose.
Also this made him a Mafia Mafia Cop, so maybe he was just being hilarious.
Hehe :-) Which other players do you think would play like that, of this set, if they drew mafia? Is it enough that we ought to assume they're taking the safe strategy by default?
This is a function of the slot options, the player, the slots of the partners, and the identity of the partners. I don't feel that I can make any statement about it that actually means anything.
-
Someone asked for a J Reggie case in a nutshell. Here's mine:
I don't think his early RVS comments on Gkrieg/PPS really mean much. J Reggie always does things like that to get the ball rolling, like basically he wants the first serious votes to be on him regardless of alignment.
vote: The_Wine_Merchant
Serious vote.
First scummy post from J Reggie. Both jumping on the easy lynchbait wagon and the need to point out that his vote is serious.
I don't think I'm gonna read all this. I also think that posting a whole bunch is very scummy.
FOS: RR. Scum Is less likely to want to read the whole thread because they have fewer real reads to make.
Another attack on known lynchbait with a poor stated reason for suspicion.
The problem with specifically lynching anti-town is it's such a good excuse for scum. And a scum jumping on one of those wagons is nearly identical to a town jumping on one. So it doesn't matter if the anti-town player was scum or not, we get nothing alignment-indicative from the interactions.
In light of what he's done so far in the game, I can actually see this as self-conscious commenting about what he's doing.
So I'm at L-3 right now which is kind of bigger than it sounds with this many people. If I get to L-1, then:
don't hammer me, I have a plan.
Someone else pointed this out already but I've definitely seen scum!reggie make this kind of gambit and don't know that I've seen town!reggie do it. So no this does not make me trust him.
Honestly, a lot of my read amounts to the fact that J Reggie has spent most of his energy trying to get TWM lynched and I disagree with the case and think it looks bad. I do think that J Reggie looks scummier in the way he pushed TWM than, say, McMcsalot.
-
Galz
O
faust
pps
Eevee
Is this more than "people I played with before, plus faust"?
Tbh there is likely some bias towards that, although I'm not sure if I ever played with pps, and I barely overlapped with O. Also, Jimmmm and ashersky are definitely not on that list, though, and I played with them a bunch.
Really though it's people I feel have contributed the most truly helpful discussion so far (plus Eevee who maybe shouldn't really be on there, but who always reads town to me).
Others have contributed stuff (mcmc, gkrieg, JReggie, TWM) but it reads to me mostly as so many pages of the "you're scummy" "no, you're scummy" back and forth that I find tedious.
-
I can't argue with the fact that my TWM case was bad. I could have been much more eloquent and concise, especially later on. But it's such a big game and hard to go back and reference the right posts.
-
The cool thing is that scum probably went for scum-beneficial PRs, so if there's a clear towny PR in a slot we know they must have selected, and they can't prove they have that PR, we've got them cornered.
Relevant anecdote: When the predecessor of this setup was run, mafia!ashersky went for the role "Mafia Cop" over some other role in the same slot that would have benefitted their team more because he felt that he had to choose the thing a townie would choose.
Also this made him a Mafia Mafia Cop, so maybe he was just being hilarious.
Hehe :-) Which other players do you think would play like that, of this set, if they drew mafia? Is it enough that we ought to assume they're taking the safe strategy by default?
This is a function of the slot options, the player, the slots of the partners, and the identity of the partners. I don't feel that I can make any statement about it that actually means anything.
I was thinking more along the lines of estimate how many of these players we might have -> estimate likelihood of scum team containing at least one of them -> estimate preparedness of scumteam for that sort of tactic.
Though actually, the scum team is big enough that even if they had one such person, that one voice might not be enough to make them all prepared, especially if there are one or more strong-willed vets in the team who don't like that sort of overly-analytical play. That might be a bonus for town.
-
The cool thing is that scum probably went for scum-beneficial PRs, so if there's a clear towny PR in a slot we know they must have selected, and they can't prove they have that PR, we've got them cornered.
Relevant anecdote: When the predecessor of this setup was run, mafia!ashersky went for the role "Mafia Cop" over some other role in the same slot that would have benefitted their team more because he felt that he had to choose the thing a townie would choose.
Also this made him a Mafia Mafia Cop, so maybe he was just being hilarious.
Hehe :-) Which other players do you think would play like that, of this set, if they drew mafia? Is it enough that we ought to assume they're taking the safe strategy by default?
This is a function of the slot options, the player, the slots of the partners, and the identity of the partners. I don't feel that I can make any statement about it that actually means anything.
I was thinking more along the lines of estimate how many of these players we might have -> estimate likelihood of scum team containing at least one of them -> estimate preparedness of scumteam for that sort of tactic.
Though actually, the scum team is big enough that even if they had one such person, that one voice might not be enough to make them all prepared, especially if there are one or more strong-willed vets in the team who don't like that sort of overly-analytical play. That might be a bonus for town.
I am having my doubts about this leading anywhere.
-
I'm kind of torn, because reading the setup wizards trying to analyze the draft is very interesting to me, but I'm doubtful if we can find any conclusions that are more beneficial than the accidental revealing stuff for scum would be. Like, I doubt we could find anything super useful for certain, but I could easily see an important PR being outed. Is the juice worth the squeeze?
-
I'm kind of torn, because reading the setup wizards trying to analyze the draft is very interesting to me, but I'm doubtful if we can find any conclusions that are more beneficial than the accidental revealing stuff for scum would be. Like, I doubt we could find anything super useful for certain, but I could easily see an important PR being outed. Is the juice worth the squeeze?
If you wish to do something helpful, how about answering my question about your Andrew vote?
-
Caught up and not much has happened since last evening. Faust is definitely a town read for me, would not consider lynching him for awhile. Galz/ash/cuzz continue to be strong town reads as well.
I'm torn because I really like the cases that have been made on jreggie but I also like mine as well as others cases on twm. But I highly doubt they are both scum. They could be both town but if that's the case I'm not sure why twm's wagon stalls and moves to a jreggie wagon. I need to go back and look at how those wagons rose and fell vote wise and see who of those voters I find towny.
As for the votes on me. I'm still not sure what exactly lalight thinks I flipped on about twm and why he is voting for me. Space I think your forgetting that you also voted me because you think I was trying to call you out and demanding you explain yourself for your ash(?) vote. I want to reiterate I merely looked at the vote count and was looking for ways to consolidate votes into more wagons so we could have more info. That is why I asked what your reasons for your vote were, hoping it would prompt you to either make a case that others could join(wagon) or move to a wagon that was existing.
-
I'm kind of torn, because reading the setup wizards trying to analyze the draft is very interesting to me, but I'm doubtful if we can find any conclusions that are more beneficial than the accidental revealing stuff for scum would be. Like, I doubt we could find anything super useful for certain, but I could easily see an important PR being outed. Is the juice worth the squeeze?
If you wish to do something helpful, how about answering my question about your Andrew vote?
I don't really have any great master theories, I dislike some of the bigger wagons because lynching a top poster doesn't seem productive, Andrew has been less controversial and visible than I'd expect, and hasn't posted anything that made me think "that's towny". I don't really have a any case to post I would expect others to follow, but I think someone like Andrew would be our best bet for hitting scum.
Of the viable wagons, I guess I like Reggie the best.
I must admit, I don't have the patience for trying to create "real" day 1 cases, because they feel like such guesswork. I'd be happy to sheep one if someone created one I fancy (like I initially did with J Reggie).
-
Other people I could see myself interested in voting for today:
Space, Dylan, PPS, ash, jake, sudgy, Awaclus, Calamitas, e, LL (like half the game, shows how much confidence I have in my reads right now).
"Good" thing is, we are probably looking at multiple flips before tomorrow, so the picture should start to get clearer.
-
I don't really have any great master theories, I dislike some of the bigger wagons because lynching a top poster doesn't seem productive,
I do not understand why people, if they are town, talk like this. It's so utterly nonspecific and unhelpful. If that sentence has any content whatsoever, it's left entirely unsaid for some incomprehensible reason:
Which wagons do you consider the bigger ones?
Of those, which ones do you dislike?
Who do you consider the top posters among them?
ppe: one
-
"Good" thing is, we are probably looking at multiple flips before tomorrow, so the picture should start to get clearer.
This is a good point and makes me more suspicious of people who are being extremely close vested with their votes (RR jumps immediately to mind).
-
Eevee, if you join me on sudgy, I would be ever so happy.
-
I don't really have any great master theories, I dislike some of the bigger wagons because lynching a top poster doesn't seem productive,
I do not understand why people, if they are town, talk like this. It's so utterly nonspecific and unhelpful. If that sentence has any content whatsoever, it's left entirely unsaid for some incomprehensible reason:
Which wagons do you consider the bigger ones?
Of those, which ones do you dislike?
Who do you consider the top posters among them?
ppe: one
I feel you. There was a game a short time ago where Eevee was basically IC due to claims, but still he was so hedgy and unspecific that I repeatedly questioned if there wasn't a way he could still be scum (he was, in fact, town). That's not to say he is scum here, but I'm afraid it is not a scum tell.
-
Vote Count 1.9
mcmcsalot (3): JaketheBaseballGod22, SpaceAnemone, LaLight
J Reggie (6): Galzria, 2.7128...., Dylan32, The_Wine_Merchant, iguanaiguana, gkrieg13
The_Wine_Merchant (4): J Reggie, ashersky, mcmcsalot, sudgy
Awaclus (1): O
sudgy (1): faust
O (1): Awaclus
iguanaiguana (1): Cuzz
AndrewisFTTW (2): pingpongsam, Eevee
gkrieg13 (1): AndrewisFTTW
Not Voting (3): Calamitas, RoadRunner7671, Jimmmmm,
With 23 alive it takes just 10 to lynch. Day 1 ends on Tuesday, May 23, at 10:00 AM Forum Time.
People who are voting mcmc/Andrew: what's up with that?
Cuzz: Do you think your vote is in the best possible place right now?
People on the J Reggie wagon:
a) Can you outline how your read on J Reggie evolved over the course of the game so far?
b) Who of your fellow wagoners do you think has the highest chance of flipping scum?
Well my read on J Reggie all came from his (I have a plan to claim at L-1) thing, which I thought was super scummy.
I townread everyone on his wagon except for Dylan, so he has the highest chance of flipping scum.
Do you think your vote is in the best place right now?
-
I don't really have any great master theories, I dislike some of the bigger wagons because lynching a top poster doesn't seem productive,
I do not understand why people, if they are town, talk like this. It's so utterly nonspecific and unhelpful. If that sentence has any content whatsoever, it's left entirely unsaid for some incomprehensible reason:
Which wagons do you consider the bigger ones?
Of those, which ones do you dislike?
Who do you consider the top posters among them?
ppe: one
I was thinking of TWM and mcmc (and the sporadical pushes at gkrieg). I don't have a townread on any of them per se (maybe a light on gkrieg, and that's totally a gut feeling), but I also don't think they'd make the most productive lynches for today.
(Forgot RR from my list in the last post.)
I'll reread sudgy to see if I can make faust happy.
-
People who are voting mcmc/Andrew: what's up with that?
I posted my reasoning at #974, but I'm not at all confident in any reads yet :-(
This really sounds like town!Space to me.
-
Question for faust: in RMM37, which you modded, I had what I thought was a really workable strategy about claiming the order of our night actions, because the question of who had precedence was quite important when looking at the things that had happened. Do you think it's really obvious in this game that claiming the bidding order would be a bad thing overall (clearly it's bad for particular players/roles in isolation), or is there a case to be made for it along similar lines? Cal, I'd also be interested in your personal conclusion on this! Feel free to respond in non-specific ways; I'm more interested in knowing that you've thought the possibility through than seeing all your working in-thread for now.
I think eventually knowing the order will be very useful to town, as it might give us a little bit of insight. We can also then see the likelihood of people's claims later on (like if someone at order #5 claims VT, that probably isn't all that likely).
-
I'm sorry, it maybe would be best to feign fake confidence in my reads, but that's very unnatural for me. Being authentic and posting my thoughts unfiltered has sometimes helped me establish my towniness in the eyes of the rest of the town, so that's something.
-
Do you think your vote is in the best place right now?
Yes.
-
Vote: sudgy
As I said earlier, I just pushed the "looks like scum caught for the wrong reasons" argument as scum myself, good enough for me.
-
My townies are currently:
TWM
e
faust
ash (for now)
J Reggie
Added here are:
Awaclus
iguana
Space
Cuzz
galz
-
Here are sudgy's posts (minus a few unimportant ones) for anyone that would like to reread him. Conclusions in the next post.
I finally caught up! (during my chemistry class, hope that won't bite me in the butt)
Anyway, Vote: The_Wine_Merchant. I don't like some of his setup speculation at the beginning. I feel like he was trying to breadcrumb too much in it all (for possible fakeclaims in the future), and I feel like he's been reacting to the votes in a scummy way. It feels like scum feeling caught for the wrong reasons.
mcmc did something townie. I don't remember what it was. Oh wait. I liked that he said we should take notes (maybe if I had taken notes I would have remembered that easier). Sure anyone can suggest it for towncred, I acknowledge that but he gets towncred anyway.
So, vote: sudgy
I'll sheep faust
Great OMGUS.
It feels like scum feeling caught for the wrong reasons.
In my limited experience this is a shitty justification to vote for someone. Too many feels in there. You feel that I feel that they feel. Never really works out that way.
I've seen scum (including myself) caught by this very thing, so I think it's a very valid case to be made.
I don't get why OMGUS is such a bad thing. I have had good results from it.
And caught for the wrong reasons doesn't work. I mean, sure it can happen. But you can't rely on it. It is a fluke. How do you differentiate between scum caught for the wrong reasons and town being suspected for the wrong, or bad, reasons?
Show me that and give a rationale for it that can actually mean something and I'll give you the time of day. Until then it is just a bad justification for what is often a lazy vote to begin with.
It's usually way worse to scum for a scum player to die than to town for a town player to die. So, scum will usually have a greater will to live than town. Then, on top of it all, if you did nothing wrong and everybody hates you, of course you get frustrated. Sure, town will get frustrated too, but not nearly as much as scum does.
Anyway, I think that any setup speculation is useless D1. We don't have any information and can't really figure out anything because of that. The only thing we get is possibly outed PRs.
I think most reactions are more based in "i'd like to keep playing this game", rather than "it's bad for me to die as scum" vs. "it's slightly less bad for me to die as town".
I'd like to keep playing, but I definitely would want to keep playing more as scum than as town.
sudgy has exactly 1 post.
I have four posts. Five now. I also explained that I'm really busy.
Anyway, Vote: J Reggie (this will turn into an actual vote when the vote count comes and I see how many votes he has). I like Galzria's case on him, and I noticed that Reggie only replied to like two of Galzria's points. That's a great way to make it seem like you've refuted a case when you actually haven't.
I still think TWM is scummy.
Regarding mcmc, I seem to remember him seeming really scummy when he's town and then really towny when he's scum. However, this was years ago and might have changed. To anybody who's played with him recently, is this still how he seems?
I gotta go write a lab report now, bye.
Vote: J Reggie as promised
Unvote don't want to get too close to ending day.
Vote: The_Wine_Merchant that was way too fast
-
His first post with his reasoning for voting TWM seem like town reasons that are trying to try. It isn't a good case (because really what could you breadcrumb in this setup), but it does look genuine.
I really don't see the case here.
-
Also, where is Jake? This seems very uncharacteristic of him.
-
Also, where is Jake? This seems very uncharacteristic of him.
Not really.
-
His first post with his reasoning for voting TWM seem like town reasons that are trying to try. It isn't a good case (because really what could you breadcrumb in this setup), but it does look genuine.
Can you explain this post? I feel like I don't understand anything about this. What are town reasons that are trying to try as opposed to scum reasons that are trying to try?
-
I don't really have any great master theories, I dislike some of the bigger wagons because lynching a top poster doesn't seem productive,
I do not understand why people, if they are town, talk like this. It's so utterly nonspecific and unhelpful. If that sentence has any content whatsoever, it's left entirely unsaid for some incomprehensible reason:
Which wagons do you consider the bigger ones?
Of those, which ones do you dislike?
Who do you consider the top posters among them?
ppe: one
I thought the answers to all of these questions were implied and somewhat obvious.
1) The bigger wagons have been J Reggie (peaked at ~8) TWM (peaked at 5) and after that maybe McMcsalot. 3) All three of those players are in the top half of posters. 2) Eevee doesn't want to vote for any of those three.
Not sure if all of Cuzz's interrogations have been helpful...
-
I don't get a scummy vibe from sudgy
-
iguana has a weirdly strong urge to answer questions not directed at him.
-
There's a lot of unanswered questions!
-
People who are voting mcmc/Andrew: what's up with that?
I posted my reasoning at #974, but I'm not at all confident in any reads yet :-(
This really sounds like town!Space to me.
I agree
-
His first post with his reasoning for voting TWM seem like town reasons that are trying to try. It isn't a good case (because really what could you breadcrumb in this setup), but it does look genuine.
Can you explain this post? I feel like I don't understand anything about this. What are town reasons that are trying to try as opposed to scum reasons that are trying to try?
They seem like genuinely bad reasons from someone who hasn't thought about fakeclaiming, or about those aspects of the setup.
-
His first post with his reasoning for voting TWM seem like town reasons that are trying to try. It isn't a good case (because really what could you breadcrumb in this setup), but it does look genuine.
I really don't see the case here.
Well seeing as I also agree completely with this I have to start town reading you more. I think sudgy has acted very much the way I expect sudgy to act with the amount of participation he has had.
-
My townies are currently:
TWM
e
faust
ash (for now)
J Reggie
Added here are:
Awaclus
iguana
Space
Cuzz
galz
Why am i not here?
-
I think eventually knowing the order will be very useful to town, as it might give us a little bit of insight. We can also then see the likelihood of people's claims later on (like if someone at order #5 claims VT, that probably isn't all that likely).
The thing is, once people die, we can't confirm their place in the order, unless somehow Robz decides to give that to us with the flip, which I feel is super unlikely.
You're missing the big utility of this, though, I think... it's not so much that a fifth-placed person shouldn't be VT (they could just have gambled on a moderately-cool slot that they hoped the first four wouldn't take), but that once we know what order selections were made it, we can absolutely catch people out in a lie if they try to claim the wrong slot if we go for slot-claiming at a later point. Unlike bidding order, slots are something we get a pretty strong idea about from the flip, (though it's true that the final three slots mess with that a little, presumably for exactly this reason). I still think there's a lot of information to be had.
-
But it also tells scum who is more likely to get a PR and who isn't very likely.
-
People should claim their bid number at least in twilight if not in L-1.
-
People should claim their bid number at least in twilight if not in L-1.
I think they should claim it when they claim their role. Instead of claiming VT, claim VT who got to bid 6th. But sometimes people don't want to claim, and I'm not sure if they'll claim their number if that's the case.
-
But it also tells scum who is more likely to get a PR and who isn't very likely.
Not really if it's not #1. My thought is that there useful, mediocre and pretty bad boxes. And I think every box has its contestants, like numbers 20-25 would fight for 12-11 etc.
-
Alright. Catching back up now. Doesn't look like I missed a huge amount (yay)!
First - faust, I'll pull up some quotes on Cuzz in a few here. Like I said, much of it isn't alignment indicative - but then I don't think much of what anybody has said at all over the past 1000+ posts is really alignment indicative (if it were, catching scum would be easy). There's just a number of things in the way he thinks and posts that I find more townie than scummy - and moreso with him than anybody else so far.
Second - The J Reggie wagon. There are 3 possible alignments for Reggie. Town, Mafia, SK (for this purpose SK = Wolf = Survivor). There were, at peak, 8 people voting him, with 2 "threatening" votes. Those votes were: Galz (#578), e (#876), Dylan (#883), TWM (#886), Eevee (#902), Sudgy (#952 soft, #979 full vote), iguana (#991), gkrieg (#1015). Expressed intent but never did are O (#1025) and PPS (#1050). Mcmc also indicated he would be fine with a JReg lynch, but it wasn't his top choice. Also of note is that Jake and faust voted for J Reggie in post #332 & #513 respectively - before anything significant happened.
If Reggie is Town: Of those 13 players listed above (mainly the 8 on the wagon though), I find it unlikely that we have zero of the 5-7 scum in this game aboard.
If Reggie is Mafia: I feel fairly confident that we didn't push him to L-2 with all Town votes. Even if his Mafia partners were hedging (O, PPS, Mcmc type in this case) - or actively trying to derail (Jimmm, faust, Space (and by actively I simply mean pushing elsewhere)), I highly doubt we get that much town consensus on d1.
If Reggie is SK: This is same as town above (yes? I don't see why it wouldn't be).
In all - that's a long way of saying that I would expect to find at least one scum among the 8 people on the J Reggie wagon.
Unvote
I don't think my case on J Reggie was bad. Especially for d1. I think that there was definitely some points of interest in it - but the day is young, and I think our chances of hitting scum looking at his wagon are much higher than the chance that I happened to find the smallest of scum type slips out of any player on d1.
((Also, not brought up in this post in detail is the "anti-wagon", which will also likely have scum. Lastly, there's the "avoided the whole thing" subset of players - which is ALSO likely to have scum. So YMMV on where you feel like looking. I prefer on Wagon since looking at actions is "easier" than looking at non-actions.))
-
Question for faust: in RMM37, which you modded, I had what I thought was a really workable strategy about claiming the order of our night actions, because the question of who had precedence was quite important when looking at the things that had happened. Do you think it's really obvious in this game that claiming the bidding order would be a bad thing overall (clearly it's bad for particular players/roles in isolation), or is there a case to be made for it along similar lines? Cal, I'd also be interested in your personal conclusion on this! Feel free to respond in non-specific ways; I'm more interested in knowing that you've thought the possibility through than seeing all your working in-thread for now.
Do I understand you right that you mean a massclaim of all draft positions?
If yes, I really don't think we should do it. It is obvious that a massclaim would disable all possibilities of fakeclaims.
So we would get a full list of all orders. That's basically a list where a higher draft spot resembles a significantly higher chance of PRness which is clearly in favor of scum.
The only advantage is, as you said, the ability to put scum under pressure for not taking specific roles. But that is way to vague to be of any help.
I mean, besides from #1 overall, anyone could always say they drafted something because they thought someone else has drafted something different or to block scum from a role or whatever.
So we won't get to definite conclusions about which slot town!x (where x is any given player who claims) would have taken in that situation and a lot is justifiable in that regard.
And in case if we go for a total massclaim (later) with all roles the effect primarily depends on the extent to which the scum team drafted town-like.
I personally would have definitely taken the same role/slot I would have as town to stay consistent (e.g. never take Godfatherer over Tracker or RB over alignment-cop).
Other players might have a different approach but I wouldn't expect too much of such a strategy in general.
And I don't think this vague upside justifies giving the scum team (basically) a list of PRs to tick off.
Claiming everything in regard to the draft (position, slot, role bid for) after being lynched (or at L-1) is definitely good though.
PPE: 12
-
Of those one the wagon, Eevee and Gkrieg were the only two to vote with nothing but the vote itself in the post.
For you two, please elaborate on your read and reason for climbing on the wagon.
Gkrieg in particular, you did so AFTER he said both "I have a plan", and "it involves me claiming" - do you really think pushing him to out a potential PR is worthwhile here? He could simply be a VT playing the WIFOM game. He could also be scum. Please explain your reasons for the vote.
-
In all - that's a long way of saying that I would expect to find at least one scum among the 8 people on the J Reggie wagon.
I mean...I could've told you that. In any group of 8 players, there's probably at least one scum. However, if you think there's only one scum, we should probably look somewhere else. I prefer 5/15 to 1/8.
-
I thought he was a superior option to TWM/mcmc.
-
I don't really have any great master theories, I dislike some of the bigger wagons because lynching a top poster doesn't seem productive,
I do not understand why people, if they are town, talk like this. It's so utterly nonspecific and unhelpful. If that sentence has any content whatsoever, it's left entirely unsaid for some incomprehensible reason:
Which wagons do you consider the bigger ones?
Of those, which ones do you dislike?
Who do you consider the top posters among them?
ppe: one
I thought the answers to all of these questions were implied and somewhat obvious.
1) The bigger wagons have been J Reggie (peaked at ~8) TWM (peaked at 5) and after that maybe McMcsalot. 3) All three of those players are in the top half of posters. 2) Eevee doesn't want to vote for any of those three.
Not sure if all of Cuzz's interrogations have been helpful...
You know, it's not uncommon to ask someone a question not just because you want to know the answer, but because you want to analyze how the person to whom the question is directed answers it.
It's not about the answers being implied/obvious or not. It's about being specific in your positions and reasoning.
In response to Eevee's defense here:
I'm sorry, it maybe would be best to feign fake confidence in my reads, but that's very unnatural for me.
I am also not talking about being certain or confident in your reads, which is of course difficult D1. I'm talking about clarity and saying what you mean.
If Eevee was referring to the JReggie wagon, I can't see a pro-town reason to allude to it as "some of the bigger wagons" instead of using JReggie's name.
I understand Eevee has already mostly addressed my question(s). This post is to clarify my original concern to iguana.
-
Also, where is Jake? This seems very uncharacteristic of him.
Hi. I'm interested to hear the J Reggie plan so I may be willing to push him to L-1 for it but with the current case I'm not ready to lynch him yet. I don't get the case on sudgy at all.
-
Townish read on Cuzz:
Not reading the setup is anti-Town and I have no interest in giving a pass to such people.
I agree. Moreover, it's in scum's interest to just ignore how well people read the setup. It doesn't really help them - and could actually hurt them - to make sure that everybody understands fully how the game works. Town making mistakes due to a lack of reading comprehension is never good for town (I don't mean for that to sound harsh). Mafia will have had pregame to talk over everything. The chances that they've mistaken something about the setup are much smaller. Yes, you could say what Cuzz did from either alignment, but I think it's said more by town than scum.
vote: WW, because he is scum, and also hey everyone.
Serious vote: PPS. Doing a weird amount of defending, that one is.
explain
Simple. Straight to the point. I like it.
vote: WW, because he is scum, and also hey everyone.
Serious vote: PPS. Doing a weird amount of defending, that one is.
explain
gkrieg show your work on this pps vote. what was the weird amount of defending?
More of the same.
vote: WW, because he is scum, and also hey everyone.
Serious vote: PPS. Doing a weird amount of defending, that one is.
explain
gkrieg show your work on this pps vote. what was the weird amount of defending?
I guess just confirming stuff. Like that O has a generally scummy meta.
How is that a "weird amount of defending?" Also, man, we have the technology to, like, quote stuff and stuff.
Vote: gkrieg
And it wasn't just a one off. When he got a response back - one he didn't like or feel justified the initial vote - he followed up by voting gkrieg. There's a consistency to it that I like.
More than that, every single one of Cuzz's votes (and he is leading the game in votes cast, and number of people voted for) come with a reason. Yes, maybe not the most in-depth reason with a huge case made, but a reason nonetheless.
Also vote: galzria because I can!
Probably doesn't need to be said but just in case people are confused alerting people to your draft position is dangerous because scum wants to take out people high in the draft.
Ppe 1: well galz is clearly scum.
It definitely doesn't need to be said, and no one was confused. vote: mcmc
I'll have you know that I started RVS on this board before it was cool. Actually tho, they tried to lynch me D1 in mafia III for it.
I'm not gonna lie, mutually assured destruction with e looks tempting. But I'm confident that if I laser focus on Galzria that by the time he comes around to post we can both mutually destruct with both the nostalgia and drama that i so crave.
Tunneling someone who hasn't even posted yet is some damn anti-town behavior. Vote: O
Also Cuzz and SpaceAnemone are definitely partners. Look at their avatars.
pretty sure I've had this avatar since M10.
Ah, M10. Our debut.
vote: galzria
ok serious Vote: ashersky for this hit and run
I don't think I'm gonna read all this. I also think that posting a whole bunch is very scummy.
FOS: RR. Scum Is less likely to want to read the whole thread because they have fewer real reads to make.
I only need to make 6 reads.
This is trash. Also O is super town and I am happy to sheep. Vote: Roadrunner
I feel like it's all crazy talk here. I'm talking about just discussing the PRs out there and how the voting might have went and you're all going "massclaim bad" "we can't hunt PRs"
I'm not really proposing some revolutionary discussion, but the complete shutdown of discussion by most of the people here is really surprising to me.
I feel like from my perspective anything I could say would be a shot in the dark, because I don't know what info scum has nor what info other towns may want/need. But since scum start with an information advantage, it seems more likely that scum will be able to use any information I offer than town. So that makes me think it is not helpful to talk about even though I'm curious and honestly kinda want to have the conversation later in the game / after the game.
Vote: iguana
This is a nothing post, and it reeks of "oh I'm just town how could I possibly know anything?"
Literally everyone in the game can deduce some portion of what the scum team(s) know, as well as what town PRs might be interested in.
Further, on top of posting at least some reason for each of his votes, he has been consistent about pushing for d1 conversation, and pushing other people to explain their reads. Again, something that can be done as both town and scum, but it just READS more townie to me than not:
Hey so I highest doubt we are going to lynch someone based on the following:
1) the roles they think are strong
2) the roles they think have or haven't been taken
3) the possibility that they are high or low in the draft order (okay I can see a little reason to lynch here but it would be more of a claim draft position instead of role when you hit l-1/2 ect.)
So we should stop talking about those things and scumhunt.
Ppe:5
boo. D1 discussion has utility beyond the D1 lynch.
mcmc do some scumhunting and give us your top scumreads right now.
mcmc I find it interesting that you say
So I very much agree with what iguana said.
and then say this
I would also say if your town try really hard to read your post and if it doesn't have some real conclusions or opinions or reactions to just not post it. Every time a town player posts a fluff post it lets scum do the same, and scum want to post as much fluff as possible making the days unreadable.
Iguana's post struck me as the definition of fluff (including a useless reference to post-game conversation). What do you think?
I would be willing to lynch Robz
We may try that!
We are averaging a page an hour, stop this even though it's fun. I'm counting every post like this from now on as scummy seriously. You want a 60 page day 1 because this is how you get it.
Ppe 2: you've seen me as scum a lot, together and as a mod. Do you think I'm playing like then or like m96?
You get it by having 23 players. Discouraging conversation is anti-town. If people have such a huge problem with a lot to read D1 they shouldn't have signed up for a 23 person game.
I already pointed out 7 people who are seriously lurking. Too much content is not our problem.
I was already thinking mcmc and TWM were scum partners and then mcmc scumslipped. So yeah.
Please please give a quote if you're going to allege a scumslip which is barely ever even a thing.
It's a giant wall of text and I'm on mobile, but he implied that they've had more than one game as mafia together. I haven't actually been paying much attention to recent games, but is that true? And I'd like to see mcmc's response to this.
This is really weak. Come back to this when you can give a real quote.
And then there's a number of examples where he's "railing" (not really, but you get my meaning) about anti-town players or posts (like RR's, or just in general:
The problem with specifically lynching anti-town is it's such a good excuse for scum. And a scum jumping on one of those wagons is nearly identical to a town jumping on one. So it doesn't matter if the anti-town player was scum or not, we get nothing alignment-indicative from the interactions.
I get it. It just doesn't concern me as much as the prospect of keeping an anti-town player around for that reason. They never get night-killed, they get pseudo lynch immunity for the reasons you're giving, and they're still alive in the endgame when you need strong town players.
I'm not even sure I'm really talking about RR specifically anymore, because I don't know RR. I am just giving my outlook. I just have no patience for cute anti-town nonsense, whether it's to cultivate an unpredictable meta or whatever else.
And that just matches how I feel really well.
So yeah. Nothing he's said is "super alignment indicative OMG Cuzz is town!!!", but I do feel more comfortable with the idea of him being town based on his posts than I do for almost any other player here. Doesn't mean I'm right. Just how I feel.
-
Also, where is Jake? This seems very uncharacteristic of him.
Hi. I'm interested to hear the J Reggie plan so I may be willing to push him to L-1 for it but with the current case I'm not ready to lynch him yet. I don't get the case on sudgy at all.
Jake. The whole reason of the plan is to resist a lynch and be useful. Otherwise JR just would've told it. "Willing to put to L-1 but not willing to lynch" is so nonsense!
-
In all - that's a long way of saying that I would expect to find at least one scum among the 8 people on the J Reggie wagon.
I mean...I could've told you that. In any group of 8 players, there's probably at least one scum. However, if you think there's only one scum, we should probably look somewhere else. I prefer 5/15 to 1/8.
Obviously. But you know what's different between "any group of 8 players" and "8 players on one wagon"? The 8 players on one wagon have something in common to analyze. And I did specify that I would expect "at least one", not "only one". I think our odds of finding scum by looking at the people on the wagon are much better than by randomly picking people in a thread of 23. That's kind of the point of wagons.
-
Of those one the wagon, Eevee and Gkrieg were the only two to vote with nothing but the vote itself in the post.
For you two, please elaborate on your read and reason for climbing on the wagon.
Gkrieg in particular, you did so AFTER he said both "I have a plan", and "it involves me claiming" - do you really think pushing him to out a potential PR is worthwhile here? He could simply be a VT playing the WIFOM game. He could also be scum. Please explain your reasons for the vote.
For me it was the I have a plan part, and saying that he will claim at L-1 seems like a scum thing to say. People almost always claim at L-1, unless they think it is a stupid thing to do (usually in closed setups). Here doing this stuff in bold, where you say that you will claim and that you have a plan is very scummy to me.
-
Alright folks, I'm off to lunch-ish activities for a few hours. No work this evening, so I'll be back to look over the J Reggie wagon a bit more later.
-
overall my townreads are:
O
Galzria
Space
gkrieg at some amount
-
Vote Count 1.10
mcmcsalot (3): JaketheBaseballGod22, SpaceAnemone, LaLight
J Reggie (6): Galzria, 2.7128...., Dylan32, The_Wine_Merchant, iguanaiguana, gkrieg13
The_Wine_Merchant (4): J Reggie, ashersky, mcmcsalot, sudgy
Awaclus (1): O
sudgy (2): faust, Eevee
O (1): Awaclus
AndrewisFTTW (1): pingpongsam
gkrieg13 (1): AndrewisFTTW
RoadRunner7671 (1): Cuzz
Not Voting (3): Calamitas, RoadRunner7671, Jimmmmm,
With 23 alive it takes just 10 to lynch. Day 1 ends on Tuesday, May 23, at 10:00 AM Forum Time.
-
In all - that's a long way of saying that I would expect to find at least one scum among the 8 people on the J Reggie wagon.
That is a pretty empty statement considering how low the chances are that any random set of 8 people contains 0 scum.
-
vote: J Reggie
I find him overall scummy but I find more scummy the fact how quickly the wagon derailed after Jimmmmm said not to hurry up. Like this was the thing scum has waited for to jump off their partner.
-
In all - that's a long way of saying that I would expect to find at least one scum among the 8 people on the J Reggie wagon.
That is a pretty empty statement considering how low the chances are that any random set of 8 people contains 0 scum.
In all - that's a long way of saying that I would expect to find at least one scum among the 8 people on the J Reggie wagon.
I mean...I could've told you that. In any group of 8 players, there's probably at least one scum. However, if you think there's only one scum, we should probably look somewhere else. I prefer 5/15 to 1/8.
Obviously. But you know what's different between "any group of 8 players" and "8 players on one wagon"? The 8 players on one wagon have something in common to analyze. And I did specify that I would expect "at least one", not "only one". I think our odds of finding scum by looking at the people on the wagon are much better than by randomly picking people in a thread of 23. That's kind of the point of wagons.
-
and now we will talktalktalk, the initial wagon will be forgotten and J Reggie wouldn't be lynched. M86 is so fresh in my memory (though i was his partner)
-
our games lately are mostly lost by us because we don't lynch obvscum, that's my point.
-
also I have an mpression people just ignore me most of the game. Not cool
-
also I have an mpression people just ignore me most of the game. Not cool
^Not ignoring!
-
also I have an mpression people just ignore me most of the game. Not cool
^Not ignoring!
aw thanks, that was the most meaningful post of mine not to ignore
-
But it also tells scum who is more likely to get a PR and who isn't very likely.
Not really if it's not #1. My thought is that there useful, mediocre and pretty bad boxes. And I think every box has its contestants, like numbers 20-25 would fight for 12-11 etc.
Well the ones at the end of the draft order certainly didn't get anything. The chances are extremely low for them, so they will be VTs.
-
My townies are currently:
TWM
e
faust
ash (for now)
J Reggie
Added here are:
Awaclus
iguana
Space
Cuzz
galz
Why am i not here?
You haven't done anything super townie yet. I guess I just don't feel like I have a read on you yet.
-
But it also tells scum who is more likely to get a PR and who isn't very likely.
Not really if it's not #1. My thought is that there useful, mediocre and pretty bad boxes. And I think every box has its contestants, like numbers 20-25 would fight for 12-11 etc.
Well the ones at the end of the draft order certainly didn't get anything. The chances are extremely low for them, so they will be VTs.
I have some more thoughts on topic, but I am not sure telling them is protown
Noted about the read.
-
Also, where is Jake? This seems very uncharacteristic of him.
Hi. I'm interested to hear the J Reggie plan so I may be willing to push him to L-1 for it but with the current case I'm not ready to lynch him yet. I don't get the case on sudgy at all.
Jake. The whole reason of the plan is to resist a lynch and be useful. Otherwise JR just would've told it. "Willing to put to L-1 but not willing to lynch" is so nonsense!
I said for now LL. I don't wanna lynch now because we're so early in the day as well but as we grow closer to the deadline I would be willing to lynch J Reggie. I want to hear the plan because truthfully I doubt that there is one and it's just to avoid a lynch. With that I will Vote J Reggie
-
Also, where is Jake? This seems very uncharacteristic of him.
Hi. I'm interested to hear the J Reggie plan so I may be willing to push him to L-1 for it but with the current case I'm not ready to lynch him yet. I don't get the case on sudgy at all.
Jake. The whole reason of the plan is to resist a lynch and be useful. Otherwise JR just would've told it. "Willing to put to L-1 but not willing to lynch" is so nonsense!
I said for now LL. I don't wanna lynch now because we're so early in the day as well but as we grow closer to the deadline I would be willing to lynch J Reggie. I want to hear the plan because truthfully I doubt that there is one and it's just to avoid a lynch. With that I will Vote J Reggie
THIS IS L-2
-
Also, where is Jake? This seems very uncharacteristic of him.
Hi. I'm interested to hear the J Reggie plan so I may be willing to push him to L-1 for it but with the current case I'm not ready to lynch him yet. I don't get the case on sudgy at all.
Jake. The whole reason of the plan is to resist a lynch and be useful. Otherwise JR just would've told it. "Willing to put to L-1 but not willing to lynch" is so nonsense!
I said for now LL. I don't wanna lynch now because we're so early in the day as well but as we grow closer to the deadline I would be willing to lynch J Reggie. I want to hear the plan because truthfully I doubt that there is one and it's just to avoid a lynch. With that I will Vote J Reggie
THIS IS L-2
This is not. Include the colon
-
Also, where is Jake? This seems very uncharacteristic of him.
Hi. I'm interested to hear the J Reggie plan so I may be willing to push him to L-1 for it but with the current case I'm not ready to lynch him yet. I don't get the case on sudgy at all.
Jake. The whole reason of the plan is to resist a lynch and be useful. Otherwise JR just would've told it. "Willing to put to L-1 but not willing to lynch" is so nonsense!
I said for now LL. I don't wanna lynch now because we're so early in the day as well but as we grow closer to the deadline I would be willing to lynch J Reggie. I want to hear the plan because truthfully I doubt that there is one and it's just to avoid a lynch. With that I will Vote J Reggie
THIS IS L-2
This is not. Include the colon
Whoops Vote: J Reggie
-
The latest interactions have me getting a slight scum vibe off Cuzz. I'm not sure but I think a scum!Cuzz is pretty enthusiastic about claiming Bid Order. Correct me if I am wrong but bid order is also hidden from scum, yes? If so, we are not just discovering information they have but giving them more.
Could vote Jake for being so anti-utility around here.
Not feeling great about LaLight.
Note, these are all big improvements over me townreading a bunch of people and being supremely null on everyone else.
-
The latest interactions have me getting a slight scum vibe off Cuzz. I'm not sure but I think a scum!Cuzz is pretty enthusiastic about claiming Bid Order. Correct me if I am wrong but bid order is also hidden from scum, yes? If so, we are not just discovering information they have but giving them more.
Could vote Jake for being so anti-utility around here.
Not feeling great about LaLight.
Note, these are all big improvements over me townreading a bunch of people and being supremely null on everyone else.
I have no recollection of mentioning bid order anywhere. Certainly not enthusiastically.
-
The latest interactions have me getting a slight scum vibe off Cuzz. I'm not sure but I think a scum!Cuzz is pretty enthusiastic about claiming Bid Order. Correct me if I am wrong but bid order is also hidden from scum, yes? If so, we are not just discovering information they have but giving them more.
Could vote Jake for being so anti-utility around here.
Not feeling great about LaLight.
Note, these are all big improvements over me townreading a bunch of people and being supremely null on everyone else.
I have no recollection of mentioning bid order anywhere. Certainly not enthusiastically.
Nope, you're right, that was Space. The avatar thing messed me up. Like, they're the same color scheme and stuff, or something.
-
Gotcha
-
Also, where is Jake? This seems very uncharacteristic of him.
Hi. I'm interested to hear the J Reggie plan so I may be willing to push him to L-1 for it but with the current case I'm not ready to lynch him yet. I don't get the case on sudgy at all.
Jake. The whole reason of the plan is to resist a lynch and be useful. Otherwise JR just would've told it. "Willing to put to L-1 but not willing to lynch" is so nonsense!
I agree with you lalight but town!jake says that ten times over before scum!jake says that.
-
vote: J Reggie
I find him overall scummy but I find more scummy the fact how quickly the wagon derailed after Jimmmmm said not to hurry up. Like this was the thing scum has waited for to jump off their partner.
Again maybe it's just me but in a game this huge I don't get why scum would be on wagon at all. Helping town lynch scum day 1 is like helping town put scum in the worst possible position they can be. Scum almost never wins when we hit scum day one. Also it's day one, none of the cases are that great so it's not like scum is going to look wierd being off wagon.
You either think jreggie is scum and his wagon disbanded because townies are always really cautious about lynching. Or you think jreggie is town and scum was pushing his wagon but trying to not pile all on and town cooled of the wagon to give people time to catch up and couple check things.
This post from lalight sounds way more like scum who didn't want to have to join the wagon now being worried it's going to go away completely. Though this isn't a great theory because again, it's a huge game, scum could just pivot toward a different town wagon. (Though I'm town and lalight was trying to get that going to limited success).
-
Fixed some unvotes I had missed.
Vote Count 1.11
mcmcsalot (1): SpaceAnemone
J Reggie (6): 2.7128...., Dylan32, iguanaiguana, gkrieg13, LaLight, JaketheBaseballGod22
The_Wine_Merchant (4): J Reggie, ashersky, mcmcsalot, sudgy
Awaclus (1): O
sudgy (2): faust, Eevee
O (1): Awaclus
AndrewisFTTW (1): pingpongsam
gkrieg13 (1): AndrewisFTTW
RoadRunner7671 (1): Cuzz
Not Voting (5): Calamitas, RoadRunner7671, Jimmmmm, Galzria, The_Wine_Merchant
With 23 alive it takes just 10 to lynch. Day 1 ends on Tuesday, May 23, at 10:00 AM Forum Time.
-
vote: J Reggie
I find him overall scummy but I find more scummy the fact how quickly the wagon derailed after Jimmmmm said not to hurry up. Like this was the thing scum has waited for to jump off their partner.
Again maybe it's just me but in a game this huge I don't get why scum would be on wagon at all. Helping town lynch scum day 1 is like helping town put scum in the worst possible position they can be. Scum almost never wins when we hit scum day one. Also it's day one, none of the cases are that great so it's not like scum is going to look wierd being off wagon.
You either think jreggie is scum and his wagon disbanded because townies are always really cautious about lynching. Or you think jreggie is town and scum was pushing his wagon but trying to not pile all on and town cooled of the wagon to give people time to catch up and couple check things.
This post from lalight sounds way more like scum who didn't want to have to join the wagon now being worried it's going to go away completely. Though this isn't a great theory because again, it's a huge game, scum could just pivot toward a different town wagon. (Though I'm town and lalight was trying to get that going to limited success).
I like this line of thought.
LaLight, it seems your post is presupposed on Reggie actually being scum. How does the degradation of the wagon affect your views if he's town?
Mcmc - Does scum care all that much about rushing to a lynch? Assume Reggie is town - do they jump to keep pushing a wagon that is showing signs of coming apart? That is, are they really "worried about it going away completely " as you say?
-
This post from lalight sounds way more like scum who didn't want to have to join the wagon now being worried it's going to go away completely. Though this isn't a great theory because again, it's a huge game, scum could just pivot toward a different town wagon. (Though I'm town and lalight was trying to get that going to limited success).
these are the words to my feel I expressed just moments ago.
-
No, i think reggie is scum and i think in this game it's really easy for scum to destroy every wagon because there's much of them
-
I try to imagine what would i do if i was scum but i really can't. I mean this game is really hard for me, I don't know how i would behave in that case
-
I want more participation and i vote for people i think are scum, that's my D1 in this game
-
No, i think reggie is scum and i think in this game it's really easy for scum to destroy every wagon because there's much of them
I don't think that really answered my question. I get that your view is that Reggie is scum. Your reason for your vote made that clear.
My question is what does the degradation of his wagon mean in your view if Reggie is town?
-
No, i think reggie is scum and i think in this game it's really easy for scum to destroy every wagon because there's much of them
I don't think that really answered my question. I get that your view is that Reggie is scum. Your reason for your vote made that clear.
My question is what does the degradation of his wagon mean in your view if Reggie is town?
Hm. I think that might mean that there are many scums on it already and they don't want to tie themselves together to the mislynch wagon maybe
-
Oh, i thought that was jimmmmm asking. I confuse people in this game
-
No, i think reggie is scum and i think in this game it's really easy for scum to destroy every wagon because there's much of them
I don't think that really answered my question. I get that your view is that Reggie is scum. Your reason for your vote made that clear.
My question is what does the degradation of his wagon mean in your view if Reggie is town?
Hm. I think that might mean that there are many scums on it already and they don't want to tie themselves together to the mislynch wagon maybe
So if Reggie is scum, the degradation was caused by his partners seeing an opportunity in the lull to get off the wagon and try to get it dissolved:
vote: J Reggie
I find him overall scummy but I find more scummy the fact how quickly the wagon derailed after Jimmmmm said not to hurry up. Like this was the thing scum has waited for to jump off their partner.
And if he's town you think the degradation was caused by scum leaving the wagon because they didn't want to get tied together on a town mislynch:
Hm. I think that might mean that there are many scums on it already and they don't want to tie themselves together to the mislynch wagon maybe
Is this correct?
-
LaLight lowkey trying to justify jumping onto the TWM wagon?
-
Vote Count 1.9
mcmcsalot (3): JaketheBaseballGod22, SpaceAnemone, LaLight
J Reggie (6): Galzria, 2.7128...., Dylan32, The_Wine_Merchant, iguanaiguana, gkrieg13
The_Wine_Merchant (4): J Reggie, ashersky, mcmcsalot, sudgy
Awaclus (1): O
sudgy (1): faust
O (1): Awaclus
iguanaiguana (1): Cuzz
AndrewisFTTW (2): pingpongsam, Eevee
gkrieg13 (1): AndrewisFTTW
Not Voting (3): Calamitas, RoadRunner7671, Jimmmmm,
With 23 alive it takes just 10 to lynch. Day 1 ends on Tuesday, May 23, at 10:00 AM Forum Time.
People who are voting mcmc/Andrew: what's up with that?
Cuzz: Do you think your vote is in the best possible place right now?
People on the J Reggie wagon:
a) Can you outline how your read on J Reggie evolved over the course of the game so far?
b) Who of your fellow wagoners do you think has the highest chance of flipping scum?
I still kind of consider myself on the wagon (I was kind of hoping TWM would react more when I voted him), so I'll answer this. My read on him was mainly just null until Galzria's case. I thought it was pretty good, but what made me vote for him was that he responded to only one or two of the many points Galzria had. I also think his whole "L-1 Plan" was scummy.
TWM is still a scumread for me, so he would probably be the person with the highest chance of flipping scum. I don't like how fizzled that wagon got.
Eevee, if you join me on sudgy, I would be ever so happy.
What exactly do you find so scummy about me?
And, since TWM didn't really react, I do still like the Reggie wagon better. Back to Vote: J Reggie.
-
No, i think reggie is scum and i think in this game it's really easy for scum to destroy every wagon because there's much of them
I don't think that really answered my question. I get that your view is that Reggie is scum. Your reason for your vote made that clear.
My question is what does the degradation of his wagon mean in your view if Reggie is town?
Hm. I think that might mean that there are many scums on it already and they don't want to tie themselves together to the mislynch wagon maybe
So if Reggie is scum, the degradation was caused by his partners seeing an opportunity in the lull to get off the wagon and try to get it dissolved:
vote: J Reggie
I find him overall scummy but I find more scummy the fact how quickly the wagon derailed after Jimmmmm said not to hurry up. Like this was the thing scum has waited for to jump off their partner.
And if he's town you think the degradation was caused by scum leaving the wagon because they didn't want to get tied together on a town mislynch:
Hm. I think that might mean that there are many scums on it already and they don't want to tie themselves together to the mislynch wagon maybe
Is this correct?
Sounds about right
-
LaLight lowkey trying to justify jumping onto the TWM wagon?
Not lowkey, not trying to justify, not TWM
-
LaLight lowkey trying to justify jumping onto the TWM wagon?
Not lowkey, not trying to justify, not TWM
[/quote
who else abandoned the wagon? legitimate, non rhetorical question.
-
quotes are hard and annoying
-
LaLight lowkey trying to justify jumping onto the TWM wagon?
Not lowkey, not trying to justify, not TWM
who else abandoned the wagon? legitimate, non rhetorical question.
Ah, that's what you meant. I thought you confused TWM and J Reggie. I don't really remember, there were sudgy and TWM and I think someone else
-
quotes are hard and annoying
I fixed your quote
-
No, i think reggie is scum and i think in this game it's really easy for scum to destroy every wagon because there's much of them
I don't think that really answered my question. I get that your view is that Reggie is scum. Your reason for your vote made that clear.
My question is what does the degradation of his wagon mean in your view if Reggie is town?
Hm. I think that might mean that there are many scums on it already and they don't want to tie themselves together to the mislynch wagon maybe
So if Reggie is scum, the degradation was caused by his partners seeing an opportunity in the lull to get off the wagon and try to get it dissolved:
vote: J Reggie
I find him overall scummy but I find more scummy the fact how quickly the wagon derailed after Jimmmmm said not to hurry up. Like this was the thing scum has waited for to jump off their partner.
And if he's town you think the degradation was caused by scum leaving the wagon because they didn't want to get tied together on a town mislynch:
Hm. I think that might mean that there are many scums on it already and they don't want to tie themselves together to the mislynch wagon maybe
Is this correct?
Sounds about right
So the 4 that got off the wagon are: Eevee, Sudgy, TWM and me.
Reads on all 4 please.
-
So the 4 that got off the wagon are: Eevee, Sudgy, TWM and me.
Reads on all 4 please.
Shortened the wall.
You: as I have already said you seem townie, but as I have already mentioned I am always suspicious of good players. But definitely town for D1.
Eevee: he is very inactive and hard to read on this stage of the game. I don't clearly remember him well and I would say leanscum for now.
TWM who was very active and doing some scummy stuff as I mentioned previously and then disappeared seems scummy but I can actually see some townieness from him. Scum!TWM looks very different, wary, longposting, consistent as hell. It's for a reason he got MVP in every game where he was scum.
Sudgy is not really here and iirc it is a typical sudgy in every game he played. But the artificial vote on J Reggie, then vote for J Reggie, then unvote, then again vote is scummy for any player.
-
are we trying to do metawagon? I mean we look at who's on wagon, make a wagon on someone on wagon, then analyze that wagon and make a wagon on someone on that wagon then analyze etc.
I mean, wagon analysis is cool and stuff, but i don't remember it working without flips at all
-
I think J Reggie is scummy, I vote for him, not trying to understand who are or are not his partners at D1
-
I think we're mostly """"analyzing"""" you here over the wagon. But that's just me, can't speak for Galz.
-
I think we're mostly """"analyzing"""" you here over the wagon. But that's just me, can't speak for Galz.
This.
-
for me personally You and Faust seem scummy as all hell every time you two post but I think it might just be playstyle choices.
I'd probably lynch either of you before J Reggie but after Awaclus
-
This post from lalight sounds way more like scum who didn't want to have to join the wagon now being worried it's going to go away completely. Though this isn't a great theory because again, it's a huge game, scum could just pivot toward a different town wagon. (Though I'm town and lalight was trying to get that going to limited success).
Mcmc - Does scum care all that much about rushing to a lynch? Assume Reggie is town - do they jump to keep pushing a wagon that is showing signs of coming apart? That is, are they really "worried about it going away completely " as you say?
Note that I did say I'm not quite sure how good my theory is because I'm not sure scum does want to rush to a lynch. There are plenty of other townies they could pivot towards rather than risk looking scummy as lalight does trying to re-push the jreggie wagon through. However as I also said lalight was trying to get my wagon going for a while to limited success so maybe he was getting paranoid and just decided to go for it.
Ppe: written about an hour ago
-
for me personally You and Faust seem scummy as all hell every time you two post but I think it might just be playstyle choices.
I'd probably lynch either of you before J Reggie but after Awaclus
"you" being me or Galz?
-
for me personally You and Faust seem scummy as all hell every time you two post but I think it might just be playstyle choices.
I'd probably lynch either of you before J Reggie but after Awaclus
"you" being me or Galz?
You being you, LaLight, sorry.
Galz is slightly scummy but mostly neutral to me
-
Awaclus hasn't posted reads on anyone but O. I don't think he is at the bottom of the post count, but his postcount-to-content ratio is very low.
-
I'm not a big fan of the fact that LaLight supports the idea that scum were the ones responsible for "derailing" the Reggie wagon, regardless of Reggie's alignment - but when asked specifically about the 4 (only FOUR!) people to have left the wagon he doesn't have strong reads on any of them.
It feels... fabricated.
-
for me personally You and Faust seem scummy as all hell every time you two post but I think it might just be playstyle choices.
I'd probably lynch either of you before J Reggie but after Awaclus
"you" being me or Galz?
You being you, LaLight, sorry.
Galz is slightly scummy but mostly neutral to me
Why after Awaclus? OMGUS? What exactly don't you like about him?
-
I'm not a big fan of the fact that LaLight supports the idea that scum were the ones responsible for "derailing" the Reggie wagon, regardless of Reggie's alignment - but when asked specifically about the 4 (only FOUR!) people to have left the wagon he doesn't have strong reads on any of them.
It feels... fabricated.
I don't have strong reads on anyone, how in the world would i? oO
-
I'm not a big fan of the fact that LaLight supports the idea that scum were the ones responsible for "derailing" the Reggie wagon, regardless of Reggie's alignment - but when asked specifically about the 4 (only FOUR!) people to have left the wagon he doesn't have strong reads on any of them.
It feels... fabricated.
Actually. Vote: LaLight. His responses just don't ring genuine to me.
-
for me personally You and Faust seem scummy as all hell every time you two post but I think it might just be playstyle choices.
I'd probably lynch either of you before J Reggie but after Awaclus
"you" being me or Galz?
You being you, LaLight, sorry.
Galz is slightly scummy but mostly neutral to me
Why after Awaclus? OMGUS? What exactly don't you like about him?
I voted for him first. That said
1. Policy lynch
2. He's posted literally no content.
3. You seem to think that letting "post no content and singularly focus on one person" is a town-read when its literally the easiest thing in the world to fabricate.
-
if Eevee will hop on my Awaclus wagon i'll stay there, otherwise I'm going to join Galzria on the LaLight wagon.
-
I'm not a big fan of the fact that LaLight supports the idea that scum were the ones responsible for "derailing" the Reggie wagon, regardless of Reggie's alignment - but when asked specifically about the 4 (only FOUR!) people to have left the wagon he doesn't have strong reads on any of them.
It feels... fabricated.
I don't have strong reads on anyone, how in the world would i? oO
I would think with your belief that scum derailed that wagon would lead you to have a somewhat shady view of the small pool of people who got off the wagon (4 of us). It hasn't though. That strikes me as rather odd. Like you've made a statement of idea (scum bailed), but haven't really thought it through. I dunno. Just doesn't feel right.
-
I'm not a big fan of the fact that LaLight supports the idea that scum were the ones responsible for "derailing" the Reggie wagon, regardless of Reggie's alignment - but when asked specifically about the 4 (only FOUR!) people to have left the wagon he doesn't have strong reads on any of them.
It feels... fabricated.
Actually. Vote: LaLight. His responses just don't ring genuine to me.
Vote: LaLaight
For all those reasons but the zinger was all the 4 who got off the wagon were scum smear reads. There's some anti-confirmation bias here as all the ones he named and painted scum were slight town reads for me.
-
I'm not a big fan of the fact that LaLight supports the idea that scum were the ones responsible for "derailing" the Reggie wagon, regardless of Reggie's alignment - but when asked specifically about the 4 (only FOUR!) people to have left the wagon he doesn't have strong reads on any of them.
It feels... fabricated.
I don't have strong reads on anyone, how in the world would i? oO
I would think with your belief that scum derailed that wagon would lead you to have a somewhat shady view of the small pool of people who got off the wagon (4 of us). It hasn't though. That strikes me as rather odd. Like you've made a statement of idea (scum bailed), but haven't really thought it through. I dunno. Just doesn't feel right.
Again, imo it feels like J Reggie is scum, not all 4 of you. I mean, yeah, unregarding the alignment some of you are scum in my opinion. But he's just more scummy. After the flip it will be easier to analyze you 4 to see who exactly is scum among you
In a nutshell, you all are scummy, but J Reggie is also scummy, more than any of you. I can't spread my vote out to everyone I think scummy, I need to vote one person
-
if Eevee will hop on my Awaclus wagon i'll stay there, otherwise I'm going to join Galzria on the LaLight wagon.
Can I get some detail on that wagon? And why Eevee specifically if I may ask?
-
if Eevee will hop on my Awaclus wagon i'll stay there, otherwise I'm going to join Galzria on the LaLight wagon.
Can I get some detail on that wagon? And why Eevee specifically if I may ask?
That's easy. It's a clash of personalities wagon.
-
if Eevee will hop on my Awaclus wagon i'll stay there, otherwise I'm going to join Galzria on the LaLight wagon.
Can I get some detail on that wagon? And why Eevee specifically if I may ask?
Eevee just posted pointing out Awaclus's behavior before I could. it's not really him specifically.
The details are in the 30s pages but the short of it is that he's quite rude and even more unhelpful, which is ridiculous to have as a "town read" by LaLight and others when all he's done is OMGUS me and poorly argue semantic points that aren't "logical" while pretending that everyone else is doing "pseudoscience".
-
quite rude and even more unhelpful
Exactly how I always used to feel about you!
I'll look him over in detail when I get home.
-
Eevee, if you join me on sudgy, I would be ever so happy.
What exactly do you find so scummy about me?
Your TWM read looks disingenuous, especially with referring to the "caught for the wrong reasons" thing. Like you're just making up reasons so that your vote doesn't look as sheepy as it really is. Then you hop on the other major wagon. No opinions beyond that. And despite all that, nobody seems interested in putting any pressure on you.
-
quite rude and even more unhelpful
Exactly how I always used to feel about you!
I'll look him over in detail when I get home.
i literally said this tho, you must have ignored my posts :'(
-
Vote: LaLight
For reasons faust just so concisely outlined.
-
I'm not a big fan of the fact that LaLight supports the idea that scum were the ones responsible for "derailing" the Reggie wagon, regardless of Reggie's alignment - but when asked specifically about the 4 (only FOUR!) people to have left the wagon he doesn't have strong reads on any of them.
It feels... fabricated.
Actually. Vote: LaLight. His responses just don't ring genuine to me.
He reads a lot more genuine to me than you do.
-
aight,
vote: Lalight and FOS galz for pretty clearly ignoring anything I said earlier in the game.
-
Like you've made a statement of idea (scum bailed), but haven't really thought it through. I dunno. Just doesn't feel right.
Like, is this not the exact thing town would do?
-
Vote: LaLight
For reasons faust just so concisely outlined.
-
Oops. My reply was lost. I meant to say:
Err... what? LaLight is town.
-
My reply was to sudgy, so please go back to voting sudgy.
-
my scumread acting pretty frantically in defending my other scumread.
-
quite rude and even more unhelpful
Exactly how I always used to feel about you!
I'll look him over in detail when I get home.
i literally said this tho, you must have ignored my posts :'(
In truth, yes, I did. All the nostalgia stuff gave me a good laugh, but I feel the game is much too big to get caught up in the past.
-
Eevee, if you join me on sudgy, I would be ever so happy.
What exactly do you find so scummy about me?
Your TWM read looks disingenuous, especially with referring to the "caught for the wrong reasons" thing. Like you're just making up reasons so that your vote doesn't look as sheepy as it really is. Then you hop on the other major wagon. No opinions beyond that. And despite all that, nobody seems interested in putting any pressure on you.
I never liked caught for the wrong reasons until it happened to me. I think it's a very legitimate thing that happens. And the main reason I voted J Reggie was for something that I came up with myself.
-
quite rude and even more unhelpful
Exactly how I always used to feel about you!
I'll look him over in detail when I get home.
i literally said this tho, you must have ignored my posts :'(
In truth, yes, I did. All the nostalgia stuff gave me a good laugh, but I feel the game is much too big to get caught up in the past.
not really my point, you've had to ignore far more than just nostalgia posting.
-
How often does Lalight get lynched D1? It's hard for me to read him because he started playing right around the first time I quit.
-
Yeah, that was weird. Me and galz start this thing on LaLight and eevee has such a hard on for a new wagon that he thinks faust is for it despite talking about sudgy, voting sudgy, and not even going in the direction of LaLight.
I'll have to reread this now for sure but I think we have some scum activity going on where before I really thought we were hand waving in the dark.
-
Like you've made a statement of idea (scum bailed), but haven't really thought it through. I dunno. Just doesn't feel right.
Like, is this not the exact thing town would do?
Not in my experience, no.
-
Awaclus hasn't posted reads on anyone but O.
Of course not. I'm not playing this game to help scum win, unlike some other people here.
-
Also, I'm getting freaked out by how every time I have time to be active on here, Faust is being active too. Then, when I go, Faust stops posting too. [Looks behind shoulder]
-
quite rude and even more unhelpful
Exactly how I always used to feel about you!
I'll look him over in detail when I get home.
i literally said this tho, you must have ignored my posts :'(
In truth, yes, I did. All the nostalgia stuff gave me a good laugh, but I feel the game is much too big to get caught up in the past.
not really my point, you've had to ignore far more than just nostalgia posting.
I mean, that's the part that I INTENTIONALLY ignored. If I ignored more than I apologize.
-
How often does Lalight get lynched D1? It's hard for me to read him because he started playing right around the first time I quit.
He has never been mislynched. I don't think he has been lynched D1 before, but I'm not really sure.
-
while pretending that everyone else is doing "pseudoscience".
Well, here you've read a couple of posts by me and concluded that I must be the exact copy of you when you were 16. If that isn't pseudoscience, I guess I should start believing in homeopathy as well.
-
I think the thing to decide is, who do you trust less: Lalight, or Galzria?
Cause that dude is controlling the whole game right now.
-
i trust neither very much but LaLight less than Galz because LaLight has more consistently tried to control the flow of conversation.
-
How often does Lalight get lynched D1? It's hard for me to read him because he started playing right around the first time I quit.
He has never been mislynched. I don't think he has been lynched D1 before, but I'm not really sure.
I wasn't. Why is it even relevant?
-
i trust neither very much but LaLight less than Galz because LaLight has more consistently tried to control the flow of conversation.
Okay, that I am not seeing. Can you elaborate?
-
i trust neither very much but LaLight less than Galz because LaLight has more consistently tried to control the flow of conversation.
What? How exactly did I try to control anything? May you give relevant qoutes please?
-
i trust neither very much but LaLight less than Galz because LaLight has more consistently tried to control the flow of conversation.
Okay, that I am not seeing. Can you elaborate?
I think randomly siphoning off people as "town" with relative certainty day one is a pretty classic tactic of controlling where the lynch goes.
LaLight also tends to quite selectively respond to only one thing after a larger set of posts have been made. Everyone does this to some extent but when it's done with a certain severity it can mean they're actively trying to avoid the other portions of conversation.
-
i trust neither very much but LaLight less than Galz because LaLight has more consistently tried to control the flow of conversation.
Okay, that I am not seeing. Can you elaborate?
I think randomly siphoning off people as "town" with relative certainty day one is a pretty classic tactic of controlling where the lynch goes.
LaLight also tends to quite selectively respond to only one thing after a larger set of posts have been made. Everyone does this to some extent but when it's done with a certain severity it can mean they're actively trying to avoid the other portions of conversation.
I don't see any portions I am avoiding, I swear it. I will reread later and answer any questions if there are some. Also I just wanted to give yet another opinion of who i see townie in the game
-
What? How exactly did I try to control anything? May you give relevant qoutes please?
Well, when O accused you of being controlling, you tried to shut him down by saying:
What? How exactly did I try to control anything? May you give relevant qoutes please?
-
I.. have no idea why, but I fell like faust is scum. I need to think about it
Kidding btw, RR would be on the list of low posters. Also Jake. I keep forgetting he is even in this game, which is most unusual.
PPE 4
Hi I just caught up with the thread. I will vote almost anyone. Mcmc is my top scum read but I'm fine with lynching others.
So townie
Awaclus, are you a Werewolf?
(on a really questionable "scumslip")
My scum partner Robz. But seriously I have 30 posts in there and that is more than when I have a PR at the end of a normal game (just to say it now, this isn't a slip on whether I have a PR in this game)
I don't understand why you have brought this here. at all.
PPE: 2
@LaLight "avoiding" was poor word choice on my part. It's more about just how hard you emphasize some things than avoiding text, because overall i feel as if you've been one of if not the most active person in actual mafia play
-
holy crap i botch quotes so frequently.
-
What? How exactly did I try to control anything? May you give relevant qoutes please?
Well, when O accused you of being controlling, you tried to shut him down by saying:
What? How exactly did I try to control anything? May you give relevant qoutes please?
To shut him down? People, I don't follow your thoughts
-
and yea, i don't think that was shutting me down.
3 people quickly hop on LaLight and LaLight responding to my accusations isn't "shutting me down". it's a pretty universal and non-town/non-scum response.
-
I am indeed one of the most active mafia players, but I rarely am the most active D1. M90, M99, are examples of it
-
holy crap i botch quotes so frequently.
I can read them, nevermind
-
Awaclus is still the best lynch. I have no good read on whether he's a bad townie/scum, but all percentages being equal I'd rather have lynched someone whos vote is essentially going to be RNG in a serious situation than someone who is actively playing.
6-7/22 (23 minus me) chance that he's scum/survivor i guess, 15-16/22 chance he's an essential RNG vote townie, which is still a negative utility townie practically.
-
What? How exactly did I try to control anything? May you give relevant qoutes please?
Well, when O accused you of being controlling, you tried to shut him down by saying:
What? How exactly did I try to control anything? May you give relevant qoutes please?
To shut him down? People, I don't follow your thoughts
Well, it was half way a joke - your post responding to him calling you controlling sounded... a little... controlling!
But overall I don't agree that you've been driving the game.
And I think I prefer
Vote: Galzria
I don't want to let this guy Sherlock town into the dirt.
Cue the hordes of people who will join me on this sensible quest.
-
O, what do you think about Eevee and his reason for voting me?
-
O, what do you think about Eevee and his reason for voting me?
I don't recall Eevee being so serious and cognizant 5 years ago, he was quite a bit sillier.
I have legitimately no clue what eevee was saying when he voted for you, and it's probably the most poorly written thing he's done so far.
But I put very little into shitty reasons to vote day 1 as a scumtell.
-
unvote
I've changed my mind on LaLight.
Awaclus > Faust > J Reggie/Roadrunner > Jimmmm/AndrewisFTTW/Galzria//Gkrieg> neutral others > Mcmc > cuzz/TWM
-
unvote
I've changed my mind on LaLight.
Awaclus > Faust > J Reggie/Roadrunner > Jimmmm/AndrewisFTTW/Galzria//Gkrieg> neutral others > Mcmc > cuzz/TWM
I am neutral others?
-
pretty much
-
Awaclus is still the best lynch. I have no good read on whether he's a bad townie/scum, but all percentages being equal I'd rather have lynched someone whos vote is essentially going to be RNG in a serious situation than someone who is actively playing.
By that logic, you should want to lynch anyone but me, really.
-
Awaclus is still the best lynch. I have no good read on whether he's a bad townie/scum, but all percentages being equal I'd rather have lynched someone whos vote is essentially going to be RNG in a serious situation than someone who is actively playing.
By that logic, you should want to lynch anyone but me, really.
very logic. such reason
-
Awaclus is still the best lynch. I have no good read on whether he's a bad townie/scum, but all percentages being equal I'd rather have lynched someone whos vote is essentially going to be RNG in a serious situation than someone who is actively playing.
By that logic, you should want to lynch anyone but me, really.
very logic. such reason
That meme was funny for a day, and that day was years ago.
-
I think the thing to decide is, who do you trust less: Lalight, or Galzria?
Cause that dude is controlling the whole game right now.
Why would anybody trust either of us? People should be making up their own minds and cases. I hate being called "controlling" in a game like this, but it's my playstyle to be engaging. I wish more people engaged at a greater level. One, I personally find it more fun and two, I think the more interactions there are the better chance town has to win.
-
O, what do you think about Eevee and his reason for voting me?
is there a reason you stopped exploring this after I unvoted you?
Though you might have just become busy.
-
Fixed some unvotes I had missed.
Way to ruin my plan to fake hammer.
-
And, since TWM didn't really react, I do still like the Reggie wagon better. Back to Vote: J Reggie.
That seems odd.
-
O, what do you think about Eevee and his reason for voting me?
is there a reason you stopped exploring this after I unvoted you?
Though you might have just become busy.
Yeah, it's 1am in my place. I go to bed after this post.
I am actually waiting on eevee to return and explain it, because it's really nonsense.
PPE: 2
-
So the 4 that got off the wagon are: Eevee, Sudgy, TWM and me.
Reads on all 4 please.
TWM who was very active and doing some scummy stuff as I mentioned previously and then disappeared seems scummy
If by disappear you mean went to sleep and then had work and actually worked, then sure I disappeared. But sleeping and a job shouldn't be considered scummy.
And I still want to vote for JReggie but am trying to not be an idiot and end the day early, can't be too careful.
-
I'm not a big fan of the fact that LaLight supports the idea that scum were the ones responsible for "derailing" the Reggie wagon, regardless of Reggie's alignment - but when asked specifically about the 4 (only FOUR!) people to have left the wagon he doesn't have strong reads on any of them.
It feels... fabricated.
Actually. Vote: LaLight. His responses just don't ring genuine to me.
I strongly disagree. You asked for something and he gave it. They felt perfectly genuine and plausible for the third day of Day 1.
-
Err... what? LaLight is town.
I am with Faust. Suspicious of the quick joiner-owners here. O, eevee and pps. Two of which were more townier reads before so maybe not and I am projecting?
-
unvote
I've changed my mind on LaLight.
Awaclus > Faust > J Reggie/Roadrunner > Jimmmm/AndrewisFTTW/Galzria//Gkrieg> neutral others > Mcmc > cuzz/TWM
Ok. Back to town on O. I think this goes both ways for lalight's alignment. Awaclus I think you should consider voting elsewhere.
-
I'm not a big fan of the fact that LaLight supports the idea that scum were the ones responsible for "derailing" the Reggie wagon, regardless of Reggie's alignment - but when asked specifically about the 4 (only FOUR!) people to have left the wagon he doesn't have strong reads on any of them.
It feels... fabricated.
Actually. Vote: LaLight. His responses just don't ring genuine to me.
I strongly disagree. You asked for something and he gave it. They felt perfectly genuine and plausible for the third day of Day 1.
It's a correlation in my mind. In a two scenario world (Reggie is scum or town), he said:
"If A, then X"
"If B, then X"
but when asked about X, there was no relationship to A or B. In fact, two of the four people that fall into the "X" category, he had townish reads on. And the other two were only slightly scum.
I guess in my mind, if in a two scenario world A and B both lead to X, then I'm intently focusing on X - since that's the constant. Having soft feelings on X feels weird to me, and leads me to feel like he made a statement (in this case that he believed scum tried to derail the wagon on Reggie, regardless of Reggie's alignment), without following the thought process through. Hell, when O first asked who it was that "bailed", he didn't even know exactly!
I don't really remember, there were sudgy and TWM and I think someone else
Maybe I'm crazy. You seem to disagree with me here, as does faust. PPS voted LaLight. O voted and then backed off. Eevee sheeped again - that's a little weird. Does town!Eevee sheep a lot these days? I don't know. I like LaLight better than J Reggie.
-
without following the thought process through.
That is more town than scum, IMO. Most scum, and I think LaLight is one that would fit that bill, would think that out beforehand. What I saw from LaLight was working through the problems, just musing out-loud and not fully going through the whole exercise. And I don't think town needs to or necessarily always should on Day 1.
-
And I don't think you are crazy. I see what you are doing and I appreciate it. But I disagree with your conclusion, but don't find that you are scummy for it.
-
Eh, guess I wasn't reading very carefully, I don't know what I was thinking. Pretty triggerhappy with my vote because I don't like the leading wagons very much. Unvote anyways, I feel silly.
-
I'm not a big fan of the fact that LaLight supports the idea that scum were the ones responsible for "derailing" the Reggie wagon, regardless of Reggie's alignment - but when asked specifically about the 4 (only FOUR!) people to have left the wagon he doesn't have strong reads on any of them.
It feels... fabricated.
Actually. Vote: LaLight. His responses just don't ring genuine to me.
I strongly disagree. You asked for something and he gave it. They felt perfectly genuine and plausible for the third day of Day 1.
It's a correlation in my mind. In a two scenario world (Reggie is scum or town), he said:
"If A, then X"
"If B, then X"
but when asked about X, there was no relationship to A or B. In fact, two of the four people that fall into the "X" category, he had townish reads on. And the other two were only slightly scum.
I guess in my mind, if in a two scenario world A and B both lead to X, then I'm intently focusing on X - since that's the constant. Having soft feelings on X feels weird to me, and leads me to feel like he made a statement (in this case that he believed scum tried to derail the wagon on Reggie, regardless of Reggie's alignment), without following the thought process through. Hell, when O first asked who it was that "bailed", he didn't even know exactly!
I don't really remember, there were sudgy and TWM and I think someone else
Maybe I'm crazy. You seem to disagree with me here, as does faust. PPS voted LaLight. O voted and then backed off. Eevee sheeped again - that's a little weird. Does town!Eevee sheep a lot these days? I don't know. I like LaLight better than J Reggie.
Galz I'm not totally convinced. LL could still assume an expected value of at least one scum among those four without a strong scum read on anyone individually.
Hell, you were making a similar argument before when talking about scum on the wagon itself. It's just 1 in 4 now instead of 1 in 8, but 1 in 4 is close to the total scum proportion anyhow.
-
Post Count (because, why not?):
JReggie -71
Galzria - 54
gkrieg - 97
The_Wine_Merchant - 90
Calamitas - 12
Eevee - 35
faust - 65
LaLight - 100
Awaclus - 37
SpaceAnemone - 17
2.71828..... - 41
pingpongsam - 49
Dylan32 - 29
RoadRunner - 17
iguanaiguana - 32
Jimmmmm - 11
O - 119
AndrewisFTTW - 20
Cuzz - 92
ashersky - 23
JaketheBaseballGod22 - 21
mcmcsalot - 75
sudgy - 14
-
Guys, I cannot follow really. Can someone give me a short version with the reasoning for all claims with all relevant evidence?
(Please tag it with @Cala). This game is just crazy.
-
Guys, I cannot follow really. Can someone give me a short version with the reasoning for all claims with all relevant evidence?
(Please tag it with @Cala). This game is just crazy.
@Cala.
Very few if any of the votes have any substantial reasons at all. This is the hardest game I have had getting reads that are much good at all and I am fully caught up and aware. This isn't going to change until we get some flips. But apparently we want 4 more days of it.
-
Galz I'm not totally convinced. LL could still assume an expected value of at least one scum among those four without a strong scum read on anyone individually.
Hell, you were making a similar argument before when talking about scum on the wagon itself. It's just 1 in 4 now instead of 1 in 8, but 1 in 4 is close to the total scum proportion anyhow.
I get what you're saying, and I think it is similar... but I also think it's different. He used the four of us (Me, Sudgy, TWM, Eevee) leaving Reggie as justification for his vote ("Scum leaving a scum wagon while they can")- and I have trouble seeing that without a deeper thought process behind it. Like, how can you even say that - or think that even - without knowing who the people leaving are? And it's not like he had a crazy strong scum read on Reggie before (to my memory - please correct if wrong). Further, and this is what really stuck me, is that *even if Reggie is town, he thinks scum was leaving the wagon* - so he's got a stronger feeling on THAT aspect of things than Reggie's alignment - yet doesn't have a strong feeling on any of the four of us in particular?
-
also I have an mpression people just ignore me most of the game. Not cool
:-P *hugs*
-
Galz I'm not totally convinced. LL could still assume an expected value of at least one scum among those four without a strong scum read on anyone individually.
Hell, you were making a similar argument before when talking about scum on the wagon itself. It's just 1 in 4 now instead of 1 in 8, but 1 in 4 is close to the total scum proportion anyhow.
I get what you're saying, and I think it is similar... but I also think it's different. He used the four of us (Me, Sudgy, TWM, Eevee) leaving Reggie as justification for his vote ("Scum leaving a scum wagon while they can")- and I have trouble seeing that without a deeper thought process behind it. Like, how can you even say that - or think that even - without knowing who the people leaving are? And it's not like he had a crazy strong scum read on Reggie before (to my memory - please correct if wrong). Further, and this is what really stuck me, is that *even if Reggie is town, he thinks scum was leaving the wagon* - so he's got a stronger feeling on THAT aspect of things than Reggie's alignment - yet doesn't have a strong feeling on any of the four of us in particular?
I guess what I'm saying is that what really bothered me in his response, is that the two seemingly contradict each other - or at least, I would've thought that if we lynched Reggie and he flipped town, it would have LaLight re-evaluating his "scum leaving a scum wagon". But instead it would just be "scum leaving a town wagon". If he's that certain scum was leaving the wagon there, shouldn't he be looking at that very small pool of players more closely? Or have a slightly stronger opinion on them? 0r at least know who the four of us were?
-
Galz I'm not totally convinced. LL could still assume an expected value of at least one scum among those four without a strong scum read on anyone individually.
Hell, you were making a similar argument before when talking about scum on the wagon itself. It's just 1 in 4 now instead of 1 in 8, but 1 in 4 is close to the total scum proportion anyhow.
I get what you're saying, and I think it is similar... but I also think it's different. He used the four of us (Me, Sudgy, TWM, Eevee) leaving Reggie as justification for his vote ("Scum leaving a scum wagon while they can")- and I have trouble seeing that without a deeper thought process behind it. Like, how can you even say that - or think that even - without knowing who the people leaving are? And it's not like he had a crazy strong scum read on Reggie before (to my memory - please correct if wrong). Further, and this is what really stuck me, is that *even if Reggie is town, he thinks scum was leaving the wagon* - so he's got a stronger feeling on THAT aspect of things than Reggie's alignment - yet doesn't have a strong feeling on any of the four of us in particular?
I guess what I'm saying is that what really bothered me in his response, is that the two seemingly contradict each other - or at least, I would've thought that if we lynched Reggie and he flipped town, it would have LaLight re-evaluating his "scum leaving a scum wagon". But instead it would just be "scum leaving a town wagon". If he's that certain scum was leaving the wagon there, shouldn't he be looking at that very small pool of players more closely? Or have a slightly stronger opinion on them? 0r at least know who the four of us were?
And I guess my point is why wouldn't LaLight as scum actually fabricate a slightly stronger scum read on someone. That seems more in line with what a scum player would do. Fake a scum read on one of us (or if one of us four is scum then one that isn't his partner) and see if it goes anywhere and leads to a lynch. Here I think he was just being honest, so I think that makes him townier.
-
Again maybe it's just me but in a game this huge I don't get why scum would be on wagon at all. Helping town lynch scum day 1 is like helping town put scum in the worst possible position they can be. Scum almost never wins when we hit scum day one. Also it's day one, none of the cases are that great so it's not like scum is going to look wierd being off wagon.
Isn't there a pretty strong chance of one scum being a sacrifice to buy townpoints for the others, given that there are so many of them? Especially one like JR, who I'm pretty sure has been caught early anyway in the past. (I'm not saying I scumread him here; I just mean that if he is a scum, it wouldn't surprise me if he was picked as the goat if such a plan was made in the pre-game discussions). Sorry not to have concrete game references to go with that... it's almost midnight here and I'm really sleepy already.
-
Again maybe it's just me but in a game this huge I don't get why scum would be on wagon at all. Helping town lynch scum day 1 is like helping town put scum in the worst possible position they can be. Scum almost never wins when we hit scum day one. Also it's day one, none of the cases are that great so it's not like scum is going to look wierd being off wagon.
Isn't there a pretty strong chance of one scum being a sacrifice to buy townpoints for the others, given that there are so many of them? Especially one like JR, who I'm pretty sure has been caught early anyway in the past. (I'm not saying I scumread him here; I just mean that if he is a scum, it wouldn't surprise me if he was picked as the goat if such a plan was made in the pre-game discussions). Sorry not to have concrete game references to go with that... it's almost midnight here and I'm really sleepy already.
This is going to be a long game most likely. So towncredit needs to last a while. If they bus early, and if they don't start dying off during the night because of their towncred I think that will start to be suspicious for them. Bussing, I think works in the middle of the game where you only need the towncred to last as long as the game is.
-
And I guess my point is why wouldn't LaLight as scum actually fabricate a slightly stronger scum read on someone. That seems more in line with what a scum player would do. Fake a scum read on one of us (or if one of us four is scum then one that isn't his partner) and see if it goes anywhere and leads to a lynch. Here I think he was just being honest, so I think that makes him townier.
I agree much more with TWM's side of this: I think LL would have made something that was a total scum fabrication more watertight, and I think as town he could quite easily have missed the implication about the four wagon-leavers being more scummy than he painted them in an isolated read.
-
This is going to be a long game most likely. So towncredit needs to last a while. If they bus early, and if they don't start dying off during the night because of their towncred I think that will start to be suspicious for them. Bussing, I think works in the middle of the game where you only need the towncred to last as long as the game is.
Isn't your argument there one of the reasons why they might manage to make early bussing count for a lot of points, though? Same with mcmc's argument before, really: statements like that inflate the towncred of anyone on a correct lynch.
-
This is going to be a long game most likely. So towncredit needs to last a while. If they bus early, and if they don't start dying off during the night because of their towncred I think that will start to be suspicious for them. Bussing, I think works in the middle of the game where you only need the towncred to last as long as the game is.
Isn't your argument there one of the reasons why they might manage to make early bussing count for a lot of points, though? Same with mcmc's argument before, really: statements like that inflate the towncred of anyone on a correct lynch.
I don't think so. What I am saying here is that bussing now will have a short lifespan for me. Even if they do it despite mine and mcmc's points. Because the night kills will speak for themselves. Mafia isn't going to kill themselves. SK and other killing roles might change that a bit though, but not enough to change how I feel about it.
-
And I guess my point is why wouldn't LaLight as scum actually fabricate a slightly stronger scum read on someone. That seems more in line with what a scum player would do. Fake a scum read on one of us (or if one of us four is scum then one that isn't his partner) and see if it goes anywhere and leads to a lynch. Here I think he was just being honest, so I think that makes him townier.
I suppose I just disagree here. With you and with a few others. I think scum in a game this size can afford to be flighty with their reads. If you recall earlier (with you and mcmc I believe? I would need to double check) there was the whole conversation about scum "stating suspicion, but letting town make the accusations". I think that's absolutely true. I think town, while uncertain of their reads, have a better grasp of WHY they feel the way they do because it's a genuine feeling. Whereas scum don't. Their reads aren't genuine to begin with, so the consequences of those reads aren't always fleshed out.
-
What happened in previous large games like this? Did mafia bus and get away with it?
-
And I guess my point is why wouldn't LaLight as scum actually fabricate a slightly stronger scum read on someone. That seems more in line with what a scum player would do. Fake a scum read on one of us (or if one of us four is scum then one that isn't his partner) and see if it goes anywhere and leads to a lynch. Here I think he was just being honest, so I think that makes him townier.
I suppose I just disagree here. With you and with a few others. I think scum in a game this size can afford to be flighty with their reads.
I think they could afford to as well. But if we are talking about LaLight specifically. I don't think he would do that.
-
And I guess my point is why wouldn't LaLight as scum actually fabricate a slightly stronger scum read on someone. That seems more in line with what a scum player would do. Fake a scum read on one of us (or if one of us four is scum then one that isn't his partner) and see if it goes anywhere and leads to a lynch. Here I think he was just being honest, so I think that makes him townier.
I suppose I just disagree here. With you and with a few others. I think scum in a game this size can afford to be flighty with their reads.
I think they could afford to as well. But if we are talking about LaLight specifically. I don't think he would do that.
That may be where I'm tripping up then. Because I've never played a game with LaLight before.
-
I think the thing to decide is, who do you trust less: Lalight, or Galzria?
Cause that dude is controlling the whole game right now.
Why would anybody trust either of us? People should be making up their own minds and cases. I hate being called "controlling" in a game like this, but it's my playstyle to be engaging. I wish more people engaged at a greater level. One, I personally find it more fun and two, I think the more interactions there are the better chance town has to win.
I can confirm this is galzrias playstyle. He's a master of getting people to engage with and understand the point he is trying to make. Luckily he is also very good at analyzing and finding scum so he is a strong asset for town and a dangerously persuasive scum player. Regardless it's just galz. Currently I am of the opinion he is a town asset, mostly because we have been coming to many of the same conclusions
-
Again maybe it's just me but in a game this huge I don't get why scum would be on wagon at all. Helping town lynch scum day 1 is like helping town put scum in the worst possible position they can be. Scum almost never wins when we hit scum day one. Also it's day one, none of the cases are that great so it's not like scum is going to look wierd being off wagon.
Isn't there a pretty strong chance of one scum being a sacrifice to buy townpoints for the others, given that there are so many of them? Especially one like JR, who I'm pretty sure has been caught early anyway in the past. (I'm not saying I scumread him here; I just mean that if he is a scum, it wouldn't surprise me if he was picked as the goat if such a plan was made in the pre-game discussions). Sorry not to have concrete game references to go with that... it's almost midnight here and I'm really sleepy already.
I truly cannot speak for every scum team and so this is a probability because there appears to be at least 5 people who think bussing early for town cred is a legitimate scum plan, but I just don't think it's a good one, and not one I would ever allow my scum team to do. When scum gets lynched day 1 scum loses. It's almost always the case throughout Mafia history. By day 4 no one cares about your d1 towncred. Again just my opinion
-
Post Count (because, why not?):
JReggie -71
Galzria - 54
gkrieg - 97
The_Wine_Merchant - 90
Calamitas - 12
Eevee - 35
faust - 65
LaLight - 100
Awaclus - 37
SpaceAnemone - 17
2.71828..... - 41
pingpongsam - 49
Dylan32 - 29
RoadRunner - 17
iguanaiguana - 32
Jimmmmm - 11
O - 119
AndrewisFTTW - 20
Cuzz - 92
ashersky - 23
JaketheBaseballGod22 - 21
mcmcsalot - 75
sudgy - 14
Purely based on this it makes me not want to lynch lalight even though I think he's scummy and lynch Faust who has defended lalight quite a bit, and defended him with much worse reasoning than twm who I am town reading more as he posts. With that unvote
-
I see the cases on LaLight and totally understand them. However I don't see scum!LaLight going this hard after town D1.
Also I'm further convinced that mcmc is bussing. There is no reason for him to be talking this much about scum play theory of not to de-implicate himself.
-
Galz I'm not totally convinced. LL could still assume an expected value of at least one scum among those four without a strong scum read on anyone individually.
Hell, you were making a similar argument before when talking about scum on the wagon itself. It's just 1 in 4 now instead of 1 in 8, but 1 in 4 is close to the total scum proportion anyhow.
I get what you're saying, and I think it is similar... but I also think it's different. He used the four of us (Me, Sudgy, TWM, Eevee) leaving Reggie as justification for his vote ("Scum leaving a scum wagon while they can")- and I have trouble seeing that without a deeper thought process behind it. Like, how can you even say that - or think that even - without knowing who the people leaving are? And it's not like he had a crazy strong scum read on Reggie before (to my memory - please correct if wrong). Further, and this is what really stuck me, is that *even if Reggie is town, he thinks scum was leaving the wagon* - so he's got a stronger feeling on THAT aspect of things than Reggie's alignment - yet doesn't have a strong feeling on any of the four of us in particular?
I guess what I'm saying is that what really bothered me in his response, is that the two seemingly contradict each other - or at least, I would've thought that if we lynched Reggie and he flipped town, it would have LaLight re-evaluating his "scum leaving a scum wagon". But instead it would just be "scum leaving a town wagon". If he's that certain scum was leaving the wagon there, shouldn't he be looking at that very small pool of players more closely? Or have a slightly stronger opinion on them? 0r at least know who the four of us were?
No cryptography! vote: Galz. If you're a town PR doing this then this is just bad for us.
-
No, i think reggie is scum and i think in this game it's really easy for scum to destroy every wagon because there's much of them
But also there's so many of town, much more proportional to the number needed to lynch than in most games. I really think that with a good case, we have a higher chance of lynching scum D1.
-
Galz I'm not totally convinced. LL could still assume an expected value of at least one scum among those four without a strong scum read on anyone individually.
Hell, you were making a similar argument before when talking about scum on the wagon itself. It's just 1 in 4 now instead of 1 in 8, but 1 in 4 is close to the total scum proportion anyhow.
I get what you're saying, and I think it is similar... but I also think it's different. He used the four of us (Me, Sudgy, TWM, Eevee) leaving Reggie as justification for his vote ("Scum leaving a scum wagon while they can")- and I have trouble seeing that without a deeper thought process behind it. Like, how can you even say that - or think that even - without knowing who the people leaving are? And it's not like he had a crazy strong scum read on Reggie before (to my memory - please correct if wrong). Further, and this is what really stuck me, is that *even if Reggie is town, he thinks scum was leaving the wagon* - so he's got a stronger feeling on THAT aspect of things than Reggie's alignment - yet doesn't have a strong feeling on any of the four of us in particular?
I guess what I'm saying is that what really bothered me in his response, is that the two seemingly contradict each other - or at least, I would've thought that if we lynched Reggie and he flipped town, it would have LaLight re-evaluating his "scum leaving a scum wagon". But instead it would just be "scum leaving a town wagon". If he's that certain scum was leaving the wagon there, shouldn't he be looking at that very small pool of players more closely? Or have a slightly stronger opinion on them? 0r at least know who the four of us were?
No cryptography! vote: Galz. If you're a town PR doing this then this is just bad for us.
I'm struggling to even read the entire thread and you're reading into things like this.
I'd be okay with a mcmcsalot wagon honestly. Vote: mcmcsaot
-
But I'm serious. I want Galz to say a reason for typing a zero instead of an o, which is not something that happens accidentally, or else there might have to be some mod action.
-
But I'm serious. I want Galz to say a reason for typing a zero instead of an o, which is not something that happens accidentally, or else there might have to be some mod action.
0 is directly above O on my keyboard, idk why it couldnt be accidentally.
-
But I'm serious. I want Galz to say a reason for typing a zero instead of an o, which is not something that happens accidentally, or else there might have to be some mod action.
0 is directly above O on my keyboard, idk why it couldnt be accidentally.
But it is a capital, so it would've come out as )
-
But I'm serious. I want Galz to say a reason for typing a zero instead of an o, which is not something that happens accidentally, or else there might have to be some mod action.
0 is directly above O on my keyboard, idk why it couldnt be accidentally.
But it is a capital, so it would've come out as )
it's at the start of a sentence and Galz has been typically capitalizing those, but we don't know that he woulda tried to input a capital letter there.
-
But I'm serious. I want Galz to say a reason for typing a zero instead of an o, which is not something that happens accidentally, or else there might have to be some mod action.
D1 sucks.
-
O - I reread Awaclus and came to the same conclusion I've had about him the entire game thusfar:
He came in like RR with a statement of not participating because it's too large. Unlike RR, he then got on you for some seeming scumslip where you admit you're trying to win by making town lose - which I responded to at the time:
He's openly admitted that he's trying to win, and have fun at the same time.
And have town not win at the same time.
Lynching on the basis of rude, unhelpful one-liners surely won't be some exceedingly pro-town strategy
I certainly am trying to win.
He's saying he's voting you for being anti-fun, and that it "surely won't be some exceedingly pro-town strategy" --- In the same way that voting someone who is being anti-town (RR's "I'm not reading all this") "surely won't be some exceedingly pro-town strategy" - as neither are exceedingly likely to find scum.
At least that's my take.
He then continues to push this false notion of what you said, in the face of almost universal agreement against him from everyone else here. There isn't much content to his posts other than "O is scum, O is scum, O is scum, O is scum, O is scum".
LaLight, would you mind shedding some, um, light on the following? And how does that relate to his play so far this game?
That's a good question, actually. LaLight of all people should know how effective my scumhunting technique is, given that I've read him correctly every single time.
Honestly, he hasn't really contributed much of anything outside of his "O is scum" campaign - which never had legs to begin with. It reminds me of our first games together O (here's the nostalgia for you), where I was certain based on your playstyle every game that you were scum, and you never were. I think I usually ended up lynched D1 back then, and you went on to be town. Shows how well that worked for me.
Ultimately right now I feel the same way about Awaclus as I previously stated about RoadRunner:
Lastly, RR is a poor lynch choice for being "anti-town". At least, for now. If nothing better surfaces as d1 continues and he hasn't tried to play we can reevaluate. Until then, I don't like it.
-
Lastly, RR is a poor lynch choice for being "anti-town". At least, for now. If nothing better surfaces as d1 continues and he hasn't tried to play we can reevaluate. Until then, I don't like it.
Just out of curiosity, do you still feel this way about Roadrunner?
-
O - I reread Awaclus and came to the same conclusion I've had about him the entire game thusfar:
He came in like RR with a statement of not participating because it's too large. Unlike RR, he then got on you for some seeming scumslip where you admit you're trying to win by making town lose - which I responded to at the time:
He's openly admitted that he's trying to win, and have fun at the same time.
And have town not win at the same time.
Lynching on the basis of rude, unhelpful one-liners surely won't be some exceedingly pro-town strategy
I certainly am trying to win.
He's saying he's voting you for being anti-fun, and that it "surely won't be some exceedingly pro-town strategy" --- In the same way that voting someone who is being anti-town (RR's "I'm not reading all this") "surely won't be some exceedingly pro-town strategy" - as neither are exceedingly likely to find scum.
At least that's my take.
He then continues to push this false notion of what you said, in the face of almost universal agreement against him from everyone else here. There isn't much content to his posts other than "O is scum, O is scum, O is scum, O is scum, O is scum".
LaLight, would you mind shedding some, um, light on the following? And how does that relate to his play so far this game?
That's a good question, actually. LaLight of all people should know how effective my scumhunting technique is, given that I've read him correctly every single time.
Honestly, he hasn't really contributed much of anything outside of his "O is scum" campaign - which never had legs to begin with. It reminds me of our first games together O (here's the nostalgia for you), where I was certain based on your playstyle every game that you were scum, and you never were. I think I usually ended up lynched D1 back then, and you went on to be town. Shows how well that worked for me.
Ultimately right now I feel the same way about Awaclus as I previously stated about RoadRunner:
Lastly, RR is a poor lynch choice for being "anti-town". At least, for now. If nothing better surfaces as d1 continues and he hasn't tried to play we can reevaluate. Until then, I don't like it.
I see what your saying but this all just looks like town awaclus but @awaclus if you are scum and i'm just reading you wrong maybe try to not kill your partners this time. Just saying it means you win more as scum (which i know you like).
-
Busy day at work for me. Still happy with my j Reggie vote.
Half of TWM's posts make me think he is scum, the other half town, I think we will be able to figure him out a lot better on D2/D3, not really interested in lynching him today.
-
Regarding the O vs 0 thing - it's not a "thing". It was a mistype. It's NOT cryptography.
-
But I'm serious. I want Galz to say a reason for typing a zero instead of an o, which is not something that happens accidentally, or else there might have to be some mod action.
This is absolutely crazy to think that the 0 is some sort of cryptography.
The question: does town!Reggie do this or scum!Reggie? I think this comes from scum!reggie trying additional diversion techniques to draw away from their wagon
-
But I'm serious. I want Galz to say a reason for typing a zero instead of an o, which is not something that happens accidentally, or else there might have to be some mod action.
This is absolutely crazy to think that the 0 is some sort of cryptography.
The question: does town!Reggie do this or scum!Reggie? I think this comes from scum!reggie trying additional diversion techniques to draw away from their wagon
Yep
-
But I'm serious. I want Galz to say a reason for typing a zero instead of an o, which is not something that happens accidentally, or else there might have to be some mod action.
wat da fuq?
-
I see the cases on LaLight and totally understand them. However I don't see scum!LaLight going this hard after town D1.
Also I'm further convinced that mcmc is bussing. There is no reason for him to be talking this much about scum play theory of not to de-implicate himself.
Also
vote: J Reggie
-
I'm not a big fan of the fact that LaLight supports the idea that scum were the ones responsible for "derailing" the Reggie wagon, regardless of Reggie's alignment - but when asked specifically about the 4 (only FOUR!) people to have left the wagon he doesn't have strong reads on any of them.
It feels... fabricated.
Actually. Vote: LaLight. His responses just don't ring genuine to me.
Except, the wagon hasn't ever truly been derailed. It is alive and well.
I mean, yeah, there were unvotes after jimmmmm asked people to slow down a bit, but "derailed" seems strong.
I do find it interesting how quickly Galzria's alternative LaLight wagon room off with 3 sheep following quickly behind him.
-
I see the cases on LaLight and totally understand them. However I don't see scum!LaLight going this hard after town D1.
Also I'm further convinced that mcmc is bussing. There is no reason for him to be talking this much about scum play theory of not to de-implicate himself.
Also
vote: J Reggie
This is part of that half I find scummy from TWM.
-
I see the cases on LaLight and totally understand them. However I don't see scum!LaLight going this hard after town D1.
Also I'm further convinced that mcmc is bussing. There is no reason for him to be talking this much about scum play theory of not to de-implicate himself.
Also
vote: J Reggie
This is part of that half I find scummy from TWM.
Cause scummy jokes are scummy.
-
I see the cases on LaLight and totally understand them. However I don't see scum!LaLight going this hard after town D1.
Also I'm further convinced that mcmc is bussing. There is no reason for him to be talking this much about scum play theory of not to de-implicate himself.
Also
vote: J Reggie
This is part of that half I find scummy from TWM.
Cause scummy jokes are scummy.
Clearly
-
I'm not a big fan of the fact that LaLight supports the idea that scum were the ones responsible for "derailing" the Reggie wagon, regardless of Reggie's alignment - but when asked specifically about the 4 (only FOUR!) people to have left the wagon he doesn't have strong reads on any of them.
It feels... fabricated.
Actually. Vote: LaLight. His responses just don't ring genuine to me.
Except, the wagon hasn't ever truly been derailed. It is alive and well.
I mean, yeah, there were unvotes after jimmmmm asked people to slow down a bit, but "derailed" seems strong.
I do find it interesting how quickly Galzria's alternative LaLight wagon room off with 3 sheep following quickly behind him.
In this context the use of the verbiage "derailed" was directly related to LL's reason for voting Reggie - that is he felt scum were taking advantage of the down time to jump off a scum!Reggie wagon in the hopes of derailing it.
Outside of that context though, I had implicated that I felt the wagon was slowing down earlier on when, having peaked at 8 votes and almost 18 hours since my initial case, it was sitting at just 6 and most people had had an opportunity to check in and weigh in on the wagon. That was when I made my post unvoting and talking about looking at the wagon (something I still need to do in more detail). Since then it has spiked back up and down. LaLight was one of the first people back on in fact, which lead me to my current vote.
I do share an awkward feeling about PPS, O and Eevee all jumping onto the LaLight wagon as soon as I cast the first vote though. Eevee especially, which is why he's going to be my next reread prior to looking at the Reggie wagon - because I'm pretty sure he sheeped onto that one as well.
-
J Reggie (6): 2.7128...., Dylan32, Sudgy, gkrieg13, LaLight, JaketheBaseballGod22
@ TWM your vote isn't formatted correctly.
@J Reggie if TWM votes for you, I'm very willing to put you at L-2. Can we have a talk about this "plan" of yours?
-
Vote: J Reggie
The cryptography thing is just awful.
-
Vote: J Reggie
The cryptography thing is just awful.
Iguana tell me right now how many votes Jreggie has after that.
-
7
-
Let's hear that plan thing. O and I are both willing to vote here.
-
I think he's at 8. I am also willing to vote.
-
Though I think the plan is just a form of claiming, don't do that unless your at l-1
-
Though I think the plan is just a form of claiming, don't do that unless your at l-1
He is. I am voting for him. Except not so as to not end the day early.
-
he's at essentially L-1 now
-
Ok, I can claim first and then tell you my plan if you still want to lynch me.
-
just claim, we can ask for the plan after.
-
Though I think the plan is just a form of claiming, don't do that unless your at l-1
He is. I am voting for him. Except not so as to not end the day early.
I think we probably have enough interactions for D1, and it would be nice to be an IC anyway.
-
Ok, I'm a VT, bid 14th. My plan is this: I think it's a really bad idea for hammer hero to have a hammer D1, perhaps D2 as well. There's just higher utility for scum to have kills early in the game. So if someone claims intent to hammer, I will self-hammer as soon as I see it. If someone goes against this, you should lynch them. If I make a post between intent to hammer and self-hammering, go ahead and lynch me.
-
What did you bid on?
-
What did you bid on?
Not saying. Scum wants to know more than town.
-
the problem is that makes sense for scum and town to say that: given the absence of information, you're entirely right, but if you're mafia and know you don't have Hammer Hero, it's still a good thing to argue.
-
What did you bid on?
Not saying. Scum wants to know more than town.
It probably benefits both equally.
-
the problem is that makes sense for scum and town to say that: given the absence of information, you're entirely right, but if you're mafia and know you don't have Hammer Hero, it's still a good thing to argue.
True, but I'm not mafia. Which will become obvious when I self-hammer.
-
can you tell us the answers to your questions? scum have a set of 5 to analyse already so i think it benefits town slightly more for each additional piece.
I don't think I'm going to vote for J Reggie.
-
What did you bid on?
Not saying. Scum wants to know more than town.
really?
-
Though I think the plan is just a form of claiming, don't do that unless your at l-1
He is. I am voting for him. Except not so as to not end the day early.
I think we probably have enough interactions for D1, and it would be nice to be an IC anyway.
Hiow did anything you said above make you IC?
-
Though I think the plan is just a form of claiming, don't do that unless your at l-1
He is. I am voting for him. Except not so as to not end the day early.
I think we probably have enough interactions for D1, and it would be nice to be an IC anyway.
Hiow did anything you said above make you IC?
Dead vanilla townies are the same as dead ICs.
What did you bid on?
Not saying. Scum wants to know more than town.
really?
if he flips scum there's no reason for him to say that, as opposed to just lying about what he tried to draft.
-
I like this stuff from Reggie here, except for the IC bit. Not only does this obviously not make you an IC, but why would you say that?
That being said, I don't see myself voting for J Reggie, except maybe to hammer ;)
-
can i not fuck up quotes just once.
1. there's no reason for scum to not lie about a draft to instead of refusing to tell. This is only true before i said this and now WIFOM is introduced
2. his point was that dead townies are the same as dead ICs.
-
can i not fuck up quotes just once.
1. there's no reason for scum to not lie about a draft to instead of refusing to tell. This is only true before i said this and now WIFOM is introduced
2. his point was that dead townies are the same as dead ICs.
I don't know if I agree on either of those points.
-
Ok. Well Vote: awaclus
-
can i not fuck up quotes just once.
1. there's no reason for scum to not lie about a draft to instead of refusing to tell. This is only true before i said this and now WIFOM is introduced
2. his point was that dead townies are the same as dead ICs.
I don't know if I agree on either of those points.
But it's true that once a townie dies they're mod-confirmed as town.
-
vote: Awaclus
i'll park my vote back here, I believe J Reggie even tho VT is the default claim anyways.
-
can i not fuck up quotes just once.
1. there's no reason for scum to not lie about a draft to instead of refusing to tell. This is only true before i said this and now WIFOM is introduced
2. his point was that dead townies are the same as dead ICs.
I don't know if I agree on either of those points.
But it's true that once a townie dies they're mod-confirmed as town.
I really don't think that is what you were implying there
-
can i not fuck up quotes just once.
1. there's no reason for scum to not lie about a draft to instead of refusing to tell. This is only true before i said this and now WIFOM is introduced
2. his point was that dead townies are the same as dead ICs.
I think there could have been wifom before you pointed it out. And I actually do think Reggie was implying that he thinks his plan makes him a soft IC even before dying.
-
can i not fuck up quotes just once.
1. there's no reason for scum to not lie about a draft to instead of refusing to tell. This is only true before i said this and now WIFOM is introduced
2. his point was that dead townies are the same as dead ICs.
I think there could have been wifom before you pointed it out. And I actually do think Reggie was implying that he thinks his plan makes him a soft IC even before dying.
sure but all else being equal it's a far easier path for scum to just lie the first time no?
-
can i not fuck up quotes just once.
1. there's no reason for scum to not lie about a draft to instead of refusing to tell. This is only true before i said this and now WIFOM is introduced
2. his point was that dead townies are the same as dead ICs.
I think there could have been wifom before you pointed it out. And I actually do think Reggie was implying that he thinks his plan makes him a soft IC even before dying.
sure but all else being equal it's a far easier path for scum to just lie the first time no?
meh. wifom.
-
can i not fuck up quotes just once.
1. there's no reason for scum to not lie about a draft to instead of refusing to tell. This is only true before i said this and now WIFOM is introduced
2. his point was that dead townies are the same as dead ICs.
I think there could have been wifom before you pointed it out. And I actually do think Reggie was implying that he thinks his plan makes him a soft IC even before dying.
I wasn't. But I should be an IC because I'm town.
-
can i not fuck up quotes just once.
1. there's no reason for scum to not lie about a draft to instead of refusing to tell. This is only true before i said this and now WIFOM is introduced
2. his point was that dead townies are the same as dead ICs.
I think there could have been wifom before you pointed it out. And I actually do think Reggie was implying that he thinks his plan makes him a soft IC even before dying.
I wasn't. But I should be an IC because I'm town.
Ok I was trying to give you benefit of the doubt but now I'm just confused.
-
can i not fuck up quotes just once.
1. there's no reason for scum to not lie about a draft to instead of refusing to tell. This is only true before i said this and now WIFOM is introduced
2. his point was that dead townies are the same as dead ICs.
I think there could have been wifom before you pointed it out. And I actually do think Reggie was implying that he thinks his plan makes him a soft IC even before dying.
I wasn't. But I should be an IC because I'm town.
Ok I was trying to give you benefit of the doubt but now I'm just confused.
Well what I was saying was that I would be an IC after I died. But also since I'm town, people should treat me like an IC. Although you don't have solid proof that I'm town so you probably won't do that.
-
can i not fuck up quotes just once.
1. there's no reason for scum to not lie about a draft to instead of refusing to tell. This is only true before i said this and now WIFOM is introduced
2. his point was that dead townies are the same as dead ICs.
I think there could have been wifom before you pointed it out. And I actually do think Reggie was implying that he thinks his plan makes him a soft IC even before dying.
I wasn't. But I should be an IC because I'm town.
Ok I was trying to give you benefit of the doubt but now I'm just confused.
Well what I was saying was that I would be an IC after I died. But also since I'm town, people should treat me like an IC. Although you don't have solid proof that I'm town so you probably won't do that.
Is that different from what I said? (serious question)
-
can i not fuck up quotes just once.
1. there's no reason for scum to not lie about a draft to instead of refusing to tell. This is only true before i said this and now WIFOM is introduced
2. his point was that dead townies are the same as dead ICs.
I think there could have been wifom before you pointed it out. And I actually do think Reggie was implying that he thinks his plan makes him a soft IC even before dying.
I wasn't. But I should be an IC because I'm town.
Ok I was trying to give you benefit of the doubt but now I'm just confused.
Well what I was saying was that I would be an IC after I died. But also since I'm town, people should treat me like an IC. Although you don't have solid proof that I'm town so you probably won't do that.
Is that different from what I said? (serious question)
Yes, it is. I'm not saying that specifically because of my claim I'm an IC, just because I'm town. But now I realize that doesn't make sense to people who aren't me, so I think it's late and I'm going to bed.
-
Ok but you said
it would be nice to be an IC anyway.
in the conditional, as if to imply this "IC" status did depend on your plan.
Now you say it's just because you're town. Setting aside the fact that that makes no sense anyway, presumably if you are town now you were town before the plan, so I don't get the "would be nice" phrasing.
-
Ok but you said
it would be nice to be an IC anyway.
in the conditional, as if to imply this "IC" status did depend on your plan.
Now you say it's just because you're town. Setting aside the fact that that makes no sense anyway, presumably if you are town now you were town before the plan, so I don't get the "would be nice" phrasing.
Because my plan involved me dying.
-
Ok. Not sure that I agree we should classify a flipped dead VT as "IC" since much of the whole point of the actual IC role is to be alive but I think I'm cleared up now.
-
Did you really think it "would be nice" though? You're imagining a scenario in which you've just self-hammered as VT on D1 and you're anticipating looking back on this and thinking "it's nice that everyone knows that I'm town now"?
-
I changed my mind about this being cleared up. I am still bothered by this.
-
Did you really think it "would be nice" though? You're imagining a scenario in which you've just self-hammered as VT on D1 and you're anticipating looking back on this and thinking "it's nice that everyone knows that I'm town now"?
makes more sense as a VT than any other role..
-
I still like my J Reggie vote. However, I do like the idea of people self-hammering (when they are definitely getting lynched anyway) in anticipation of a hammer hero. Not just here, but all the time until we confirm there is no hammer hero alive.
-
I still like my J Reggie vote. However, I do like the idea of people self-hammering (when they are definitely getting lynched anyway) in anticipation of a hammer hero. Not just here, but all the time until we confirm there is no hammer hero alive.
I disagree with almost every word of this.
-
Did you really think it "would be nice" though? You're imagining a scenario in which you've just self-hammered as VT on D1 and you're anticipating looking back on this and thinking "it's nice that everyone knows that I'm town now"?
makes more sense as a VT than any other role..
I guess. But it's never nice to be lynched. I'd feel pretty bad that I got myself into such a position.
-
Also, hey, more people around. I'm kinda ehuntin' right now, what should we talk about?
-
Also, hey, more people around. I'm kinda ehuntin' right now, what should we talk about?
hey I just woke up, let me catch up a sec
-
first things first
Vote Count 1.LL
mcmcsalot (2): SpaceAnemone, RoadRunner7671
J Reggie (7): 2.7128...., Dylan32, gkrieg13, LaLight, JaketheBaseballGod22, sudgy, iguanaiguana
The_Wine_Merchant (1): ashersky
Awaclus (2): The_Wine_Merchant, O
sudgy (1): faust
O (1): Awaclus
gkrieg13 (1): AndrewisFTTW
RoadRunner7671 (1): Cuzz
LaLight (2): Galzria, pingpongsam
Galzria (1): J Reggie
Not Voting (4): Calamitas, Jimmmmm, Eevee, mcmcsalot
-
J Reggie has never had more than 7 votes, guys
-
LaLight, would you mind shedding some, um, light on the following? And how does that relate to his play so far this game?
That's a good question, actually. LaLight of all people should know how effective my scumhunting technique is, given that I've read him correctly every single time.
In every game we played with Awa where I was scum and he was town he correctly read me and tunneled just as he's tunneling O right now. Sometimes it worked, sometimes we lynched Awaclus himself first.
-
What did you bid on?
Not saying. Scum wants to know more than town.
Why?
-
I'm not feeling town on J Reggie because of the plan. Fine with my vote
-
I'm not feeling town on J Reggie because of the plan. Fine with my vote
You think the scumteam plotted out this gambit in case one of them got to L-2? Or that scum!Reggie came up with it on his own?
-
I'm not feeling town on J Reggie because of the plan. Fine with my vote
You think the scumteam plotted out this gambit in case one of them got to L-2? Or that scum!Reggie came up with it on his own?
I think he came up with it on his own
-
Ok but you said
it would be nice to be an IC anyway.
in the conditional, as if to imply this "IC" status did depend on your plan.
Now you say it's just because you're town. Setting aside the fact that that makes no sense anyway, presumably if you are town now you were town before the plan, so I don't get the "would be nice" phrasing.
Sorry but "it would be nice to be an IC anyway" does not sound like you were excited about flipping VT. No one uses IC to mean dead town.
-
I mean J Reggie clearly need some kind of "plan" to escape lynching. So he came up with this weird thing
-
how is this even a plan to escape lynching
no part of his plan includes "escaping lynching" any more than any normal VT claim would.
-
how is this even a plan to escape lynching
no part of his plan includes "escaping lynching" any more than any normal VT claim would.
1) just claiming VT doesnt help to escape lynching
2) claiming VT with a good plan does help to do it, because people are like "well, he's really VT"
3) claiming PR helps escaping lynching, but J Reggie hasn't done it
-
how is this even a plan to escape lynching
no part of his plan includes "escaping lynching" any more than any normal VT claim would.
1) just claiming VT doesnt help to escape lynching
2) claiming VT with a good plan does help to do it, because people are like "well, he's really VT"
3) claiming PR helps escaping lynching, but J Reggie hasn't done it
so, in short "he's doing exactly what a VT would do to escape lynching, which makes him seem scummy to me"
-
how is this even a plan to escape lynching
no part of his plan includes "escaping lynching" any more than any normal VT claim would.
wiiiiiiiifom. it lets him escape lynching if it causes everyone to say "no scum would do this."
-
how is this even a plan to escape lynching
no part of his plan includes "escaping lynching" any more than any normal VT claim would.
wiiiiiiiifom. it lets him escape lynching if it causes everyone to say "no scum would do this."
saying "i'm a potato lolol lynch me i'm scum" is wifom.
-
how is this even a plan to escape lynching
no part of his plan includes "escaping lynching" any more than any normal VT claim would.
1) just claiming VT doesnt help to escape lynching
2) claiming VT with a good plan does help to do it, because people are like "well, he's really VT"
3) claiming PR helps escaping lynching, but J Reggie hasn't done it
so, in short "he's doing exactly what a VT would do to escape lynching, which makes him seem scummy to me"
In my opinion and in the games I have played, lynching VT D1 is good, because no Town PR is outed, there's no guarantee we won't out one if we continue to push different people. Lynching scum is of course better, but we've made a good job so far.
J Reggie otoh tries to really escape the lynch with WIFOM way
PPE: 2
-
how is this even a plan to escape lynching
no part of his plan includes "escaping lynching" any more than any normal VT claim would.
wiiiiiiiifom. it lets him escape lynching if it causes everyone to say "no scum would do this."
saying "i'm a potato lolol lynch me i'm scum" is wifom.
?
-
Morning all. Not sure why I'm awake this early.
I like the self-hammering plan to avoid the hammer hero thing too early, but at the same time I do definitely feel like the IC comment from JR is off. I'm willing to vote: JR over it.
-
how is this even a plan to escape lynching
no part of his plan includes "escaping lynching" any more than any normal VT claim would.
wiiiiiiiifom. it lets him escape lynching if it causes everyone to say "no scum would do this."
saying "i'm a potato lolol lynch me i'm scum" is wifom.
?
It would certainly cause me to say "no scum would do this". I'd still vote for them tho.
More relevantly, introducing WIFOM is such a terrible "scumtell" because the whole basis of WIFOM is that it's also something that a town player would do.
-
Morning all. Not sure why I'm awake this early.
I like the self-hammering plan to avoid the hammer hero thing too early, but at the same time I do definitely feel like the IC comment from JR is off. I'm willing to vote: JR over it.
L-2
-
I'd like to see points about what the "IC" comment would have meant in the context that J Reggie is scum.
Because I feel like I interpret it the exact same way regardless of his alignment.
-
What? How exactly did I try to control anything? May you give relevant qoutes please?
Well, when O accused you of being controlling, you tried to shut him down by saying:
What? How exactly did I try to control anything? May you give relevant qoutes please?
To shut him down? People, I don't follow your thoughts
Well, it was half way a joke - your post responding to him calling you controlling sounded... a little... controlling!
But overall I don't agree that you've been driving the game.
And I think I prefer
Vote: Galzria
I don't want to let this guy Sherlock town into the dirt.
Cue the hordes of people who will join me on this sensible quest.
Vote: Galzria
-
Purely based on this it makes me not want to lynch lalight even though I think he's scummy and lynch Faust who has defended lalight quite a bit, and defended him with much worse reasoning than twm who I am town reading more as he posts. With that unvote
You may not want to lynch LaLight, but wouldn't a little pressure have been interesting?
My reasoning was basically the same as TWM's, so I'm not sure how you would think there's a big quality difference. Quality difference in explanation maybe. I wrote my stuff before I went to bed.
-
Ok, I'm a VT, bid 14th. My plan is this: I think it's a really bad idea for hammer hero to have a hammer D1, perhaps D2 as well. There's just higher utility for scum to have kills early in the game. So if someone claims intent to hammer, I will self-hammer as soon as I see it. If someone goes against this, you should lynch them. If I make a post between intent to hammer and self-hammering, go ahead and lynch me.
Did you bid on the Hammer Hero slot?
-
Quick sanity check:
Can the Hammer Hero still fire a shot if they have been lynched the previous Day?
-
Isn't Reggie being too erratic for scum?
Vote: awaclus
-
Isn't Reggie being too erratic for scum?
Vote: awaclus
Not sure there's such a thing for Reggie.
-
Request prod on Andrew
-
Sometimes it worked, sometimes we lynched Awaclus himself first.
Apparently we're going for option #2 this game.
-
Some observations on vote movement.
The wagons start early, we have at vote count 1.1
mcmc (2): e, TWM
J Reggie (1): Jake
TWM (2): J Reggie, ash
Followed by mcmc joining on TWM. Early wagons soon get bigger, see vote count 1.4:
mcmc (3): e, TWM, gkrieg
J Reggie (1): Jake
TWM (5): J Reggie, ash, mcmc, Dylan, sudgy
Galzria is the first to join Jake on J Reggie. Here's an interesting outlook:
mcmc (4): gkrieg, LaLight, Jake, TWM
J Reggie (2): Galzria, e
TWM (5): J Reggie, ashersky, Dylan32, sudgy, mcmcsalot
mcmc wagon looks town-driven, while the TWM wagon seems pretty bad.
mcmc (2): gkrieg, Jake
J Reggie (5): Galzria, e, Dylan, TWM, Eevee
TWM (4): J Reggie, ash, sudgy, mcmc
mcmc wagon kinda drops dead and instead we get the wagon on J Reggie. TWM is the only one on both.
mcmc (3): JaketheBaseballGod22, SpaceAnemone, LaLight
J Reggie (6): Galzria, 2.7128...., Dylan32, The_Wine_Merchant, iguanaiguana, gkrieg13
TWM (4): J Reggie, ashersky, mcmcsalot, sudgy
Now gkrieg switches from mcmc to Reggie as well (just as that wagon start gaining support again). The TWM wagon is quite stable.
-
Reread Dylan. He's townie.
-
can i not fuck up quotes just once.
1. there's no reason for scum to not lie about a draft to instead of refusing to tell. This is only true before i said this and now WIFOM is introduced
2. his point was that dead townies are the same as dead ICs.
I think there could have been wifom before you pointed it out. And I actually do think Reggie was implying that he thinks his plan makes him a soft IC even before dying.
I wasn't. But I should be an IC because I'm town.
Alright. I am back. vote: JReggie
-
Looks like that is L-1. Not that it matters since he has claimed and others who wanted the game to not end early havent' been around to play it.
-
I have no intent to hammer.
-
Looks like that is L-1. Not that it matters since he has claimed and others who wanted the game to not end early havent' been around to play it.
After hearing the bogus plan I'm fine with lynching JR now. Can you please claim what slot you bid on JR? Ethier now or in twilight.
-
vote: jreggie
This was clearly a scum plan to try and get off of the lynch while still claiming vt which never happens. I don't think a vt worries that much about a scum hammer hero day one and comes up with this plan.
-
Is that the hammer?
-
Is that the hammer?
Yep
-
Ok, I'm a VT, bid 14th. My plan is this: I think it's a really bad idea for hammer hero to have a hammer D1, perhaps D2 as well. There's just higher utility for scum to have kills early in the game. So if someone claims intent to hammer, I will self-hammer as soon as I see it. If someone goes against this, you should lynch them. If I make a post between intent to hammer and self-hammering, go ahead and lynch me.
This part of the plan also confuses me quite a bit. So he is so worried scum!hammerhero is going to hammer him and gain a nk he would rather self hammer, than allow that to happen. But as town of your getting lynched you want to force as many scum to vote for you as possible, so it's not that great for scum!hammerhero to grab the hammer Day 1.
-
vote: jreggie
This was clearly a scum plan to try and get off of the lynch while still claiming vt which never happens. I don't think a vt worries that much about a scum hammer hero day one and comes up with this plan.
Hello scum hammer hero.
-
Is that the hammer?
Yep
Yes and I was aware. I also think scum!jreggie has had something like 14 different players vote for him. I think he's aware he's going down and this was a good last ditch effort to get people to pull off his wagon. Self voting and even the idea of it is almost always scummy, if he's vt there is no way he's sooo scared of scum!hammerhero that he is willing self vote, it's way more likely scum!jreggie wanted to make sure we posted intent to hammer and allowed him to self vote completely removing the worry of a town!hammerhero from scums mind for the night.
-
Cutting the day short is always such amazing play. Well done mcmc.
-
vote: jreggie
This was clearly a scum plan to try and get off of the lynch while still claiming vt which never happens. I don't think a vt worries that much about a scum hammer hero day one and comes up with this plan.
Hello scum hammer hero.
Want to address my points or are you just going to make random accusations.
-
Is that the hammer?
Yep
Yes and I was aware. I also think scum!jreggie has had something like 14 different players vote for him. I think he's aware he's going down and this was a good last ditch effort to get people to pull off his wagon. Self voting and even the idea of it is almost always scummy, if he's vt there is no way he's sooo scared of scum!hammerhero that he is willing self vote, it's way more likely scum!jreggie wanted to make sure we posted intent to hammer and allowed him to self vote completely removing the worry of a town!hammerhero from scums mind for the night.
Or scum!mcmc hammering so he can use his hammer hero abilities
-
Cutting the day short is always such amazing play. Well done mcmc.
We're on page 57. As I said multiple times it is very helpful for town to cut this day short now. We have some nice wagons, lots of players voted for jreggie, he claimed vt, all of these things are great outcomes for town.
-
vote: jreggie
This was clearly a scum plan to try and get off of the lynch while still claiming vt which never happens. I don't think a vt worries that much about a scum hammer hero day one and comes up with this plan.
Hello scum hammer hero.
Want to address my points or are you just going to make random accusations.
I am making non-random accusation.
I hav eno particular interest in addressing your points. If you wanted your points addressed, maybe you shouldn't have ended the day prematurely.
-
Cutting the day short is always such amazing play. Well done mcmc.
We're on page 57. As I said multiple times it is very helpful for town to cut this day short now. We have some nice wagons, lots of players voted for jreggie, he claimed vt, all of these things are great outcomes for town.
Yeah, page 57 for 23 players is roughly equivalent to page 29 for 12 players, which is not a particularly long D1.
-
In terms of posts per player.
-
Faust and jake I'm curious obviously you weren't voting jreggie, but I assume you guys think jreggie is town and I'm the scum hammer hero who hammered him day one without posting intent because I didn't want him to self hammer so I could get scum an additional night kill night 1
-
Faust and jake I'm curious obviously you weren't voting jreggie, but I assume you guys think jreggie is town and I'm the scum hammer hero who hammered him day one without posting intent because I didn't want him to self hammer so I could get scum an additional night kill night 1
No I think J Reggie is scum. But yes to the rest.
-
Cutting the day short is always such amazing play. Well done mcmc.
We're on page 57. As I said multiple times it is very helpful for town to cut this day short now. We have some nice wagons, lots of players voted for jreggie, he claimed vt, all of these things are great outcomes for town.
Yeah, page 57 for 23 players is roughly equivalent to page 29 for 12 players, which is not a particularly long D1.
Understood but we also are going to have waaay more days than a normal game so that doesn't really work. We still need to be able to analyze these interaction and remember this stuff for the rest of the game.
-
Yeah but I'm gonna die N1.
-
Quite possibly from your shot.
-
Please look at Galzria/gkrieg. One of these is scum.
-
Faust and jake I'm curious obviously you weren't voting jreggie, but I assume you guys think jreggie is town and I'm the scum hammer hero who hammered him day one without posting intent because I didn't want him to self hammer so I could get scum an additional night kill night 1
No I think J Reggie is scum. But yes to the rest.
You think scum!mcmchammerhero hammered his partner scum!jreggie without posting intent to grab an additional nk.
Why in the hell wouldn't scum!jreggie just not have said anything if he knew his scum partner mcmc was a scum hammer hero and posted willingness to vote him multiple times....faust you are assuming jreggie and I are garbage scum players for that to be how things went down.
-
Faust and jake I'm curious obviously you weren't voting jreggie, but I assume you guys think jreggie is town and I'm the scum hammer hero who hammered him day one without posting intent because I didn't want him to self hammer so I could get scum an additional night kill night 1
No I think J Reggie is scum. But yes to the rest.
You think scum!mcmchammerhero hammered his partner scum!jreggie without posting intent to grab an additional nk.
Why in the hell wouldn't scum!jreggie just not have said anything if he knew his scum partner mcmc was a scum hammer hero and posted willingness to vote him multiple times....faust you are assuming jreggie and I are garbage scum players for that to be how things went down.
Not really.
-
Did hammer hero consideration influence your decision to hammer, I wonder?
-
If J Reggie flips town, should a theoretical townvig Vig mcmc? he seems like the likely lynch target tomorrow.
-
If J Reggie flips town, should a theoretical townvig Vig mcmc? he seems like the likely lynch target tomorrow.
No he can be bulletproof tonight if he's the hammer hero, so it's way better to lynch him.
-
If J Reggie flips town, should a theoretical townvig Vig mcmc? he seems like the likely lynch target tomorrow.
No he can be bulletproof tonight if he's the hammer hero, so it's way better to lynch him.
....i should probably read things more closely
-
Just assuming Reggie is going to flip scum seems like a reach.
Like, if that happens, mcmc is totally justified in what he did, of course. Still more likely than not he is town, though, must be? Feels crazy you are doing analysis expecting a scum flip.
-
Did hammer hero consideration influence your decision to hammer, I wonder?
Yes but only because you asked about if hammerhero!jreggie could still shoot if he hammered himself. At first I thought no way, but then I remembered scum qt does open in twilight. I still don't think that would be the case but that was a very very very small part of not wanting jreggie to hammer himself.
-
Just assuming Reggie is going to flip scum seems like a reach.
Like, if that happens, mcmc is totally justified in what he did, of course. Still more likely than not he is town, though, must be? Feels crazy you are doing analysis expecting a scum flip.
who is this aimed at? I was supposing a town flip.
-
Did hammer hero consideration influence your decision to hammer, I wonder?
Yes but only because you asked about if hammerhero!jreggie could still shoot if he hammered himself. At first I thought no way, but then I remembered scum qt does open in twilight. I still don't think that would be the case but that was a very very very small part of not wanting jreggie to hammer himself.
It is scummy that TWM put him to L-1 before the question was answered, that's for sure.
-
Just assuming Reggie is going to flip scum seems like a reach.
Like, if that happens, mcmc is totally justified in what he did, of course. Still more likely than not he is town, though, must be? Feels crazy you are doing analysis expecting a scum flip.
Sort of. I just hammered him so I really hope he's scum because you know, that why I hammered him. I agree fausts stance of scum!mcmchamerhero hammered scum!jreggie is outrageous.
-
At first I thought no way, but then I remembered scum qt does open in twilight.
[/quote]
If I die tonight and J Reggie is town:
SCUMSLIP SCUMSLIP SCUMSLIP SCUMSLIP
-
Did hammer hero consideration influence your decision to hammer, I wonder?
Yes but only because you asked about if hammerhero!jreggie could still shoot if he hammered himself. At first I thought no way, but then I remembered scum qt does open in twilight. I still don't think that would be the case but that was a very very very small part of not wanting jreggie to hammer himself.
It is scummy that TWM put him to L-1 before the question was answered, that's for sure.
Agreed, I am back on thinking you and twm are relatively high scum reads for me. Lalights analysis of the jreggie claim has me finding him much townier.
-
Well clearly scum!mcmc wouldn't hammer town!J Reggie D1 at this point, because man does that look scummy.
-
At first I thought no way, but then I remembered scum qt does open in twilight.
If I die tonight and J Reggie is town:
SCUMSLIP SCUMSLIP SCUMSLIP SCUMSLIP
What slip?
-
why would you know that or pay such close attention to when the QT is open?
1. you're mafia and know this ahead of time
2. you read the rules, in which case you woulda read:
- Dead players may not post in thread or QT. A lynched player is not "dead" until a flip has been provided.
-
The OP does not mention anything about the scum QT opening at twilight.
-
It's pretty cool that we just ended the day before waiting for a really crucial piece of setup information from the mod.
Letting a dead player perform a night action is close to bastard territory, and acting based on that assumption is unreasonable.
mcmc is obvscum whether or not JReggie flips town.
-
Well clearly scum!mcmc wouldn't hammer town!J Reggie D1 at this point, because man does that look scummy.
maybe you should go back to not trying to read me. Remember mM94 where i was a scum inventor and I gave you a follow power night one and played it cool and acted towny and slowly saved my super strong hammerer invention to get the scum team a double lynch at the end of the game and surprise flawless win. Why here does scum!mcmc act like an overeager buffoon and clamer for the hammer day 1...
-
Well clearly scum!mcmc wouldn't hammer town!J Reggie D1 at this point, because man does that look scummy.
maybe you should go back to not trying to read me. Remember mM94 where i was a scum inventor and I gave you a follow power night one and played it cool and acted towny and slowly saved my super strong hammerer invention to get the scum team a double lynch at the end of the game and surprise flawless win. Why here does scum!mcmc act like an overeager buffoon and clamer for the hammer day 1...
I don't know. Why does town!mcmc?
-
The OP does not mention anything about the scum QT opening at twilight.
I guess I do not know that, isn't it always that the scum qt opens in twilight?
-
Well clearly scum!mcmc wouldn't hammer town!J Reggie D1 at this point, because man does that look scummy.
maybe you should go back to not trying to read me. Remember mM94 where i was a scum inventor and I gave you a follow power night one and played it cool and acted towny and slowly saved my super strong hammerer invention to get the scum team a double lynch at the end of the game and surprise flawless win. Why here does scum!mcmc act like an overeager buffoon and clamer for the hammer day 1...
I don't know. Why does town!mcmc?
BECAUSE HE DOESNT WANT SCUM JREGGIE SELF HAMMERING
-
The OP does not mention anything about the scum QT opening at twilight.
I guess I do not know that, isn't it always that the scum qt opens in twilight?
You know, we are all aware that you have been scum before ::)
-
Well clearly scum!mcmc wouldn't hammer town!J Reggie D1 at this point, because man does that look scummy.
maybe you should go back to not trying to read me. Remember mM94 where i was a scum inventor and I gave you a follow power night one and played it cool and acted towny and slowly saved my super strong hammerer invention to get the scum team a double lynch at the end of the game and surprise flawless win. Why here does scum!mcmc act like an overeager buffoon and clamer for the hammer day 1...
IT'S NOT BEING AN OVEREAGER BUFFOON. IT'S BEING A SCUM BUFFOON POORLY EXECUTING THE SCUM PLAN THEY WORKED OUT IN THE QT
-
Well clearly scum!mcmc wouldn't hammer town!J Reggie D1 at this point, because man does that look scummy.
maybe you should go back to not trying to read me. Remember mM94 where i was a scum inventor and I gave you a follow power night one and played it cool and acted towny and slowly saved my super strong hammerer invention to get the scum team a double lynch at the end of the game and surprise flawless win. Why here does scum!mcmc act like an overeager buffoon and clamer for the hammer day 1...
I don't know. Why does town!mcmc?
BECAUSE HE DOESNT WANT SCUM JREGGIE SELF HAMMERING
Here's a suggestion:
"Please someone unvote J Reggie so that he cannot self-hammer!"
-
It's pretty cool that we just ended the day before waiting for a really crucial piece of setup information from the mod.
Letting a dead player perform a night action is close to bastard territory, and acting based on that assumption is unreasonable.
mcmc is obvscum whether or not JReggie flips town.
But I took the hammer so the answer doesn't need to be known right this instant. I do wish twm waited untill robz answered to put jreggie in the position to self hammer in the first place
-
I'm willing at this point to assume MCMC is scum even in the unlikely event J Reggie is scum.
1. Hammers without discussing it.
2. Claims vague "what if hammer hero could do night action" bullshit without Robz clarification
3. """"assumes""" scum chat opens twilight, claims he assumed it without checking, but it was also this "assumption" that made him feel like he should hammer in the first place! wouldn't he be confident in this assumption if it led to the deduction he had to hammer?
-
I'm not seeing in the setup where twilight lasts any specific period of time. I don't recall any PRs that need some time to activate in twilight. I'm assuming we are awaiting Robz to confirm the vote count.
Sheep: Galzria
-
Well clearly scum!mcmc wouldn't hammer town!J Reggie D1 at this point, because man does that look scummy.
maybe you should go back to not trying to read me. Remember mM94 where i was a scum inventor and I gave you a follow power night one and played it cool and acted towny and slowly saved my super strong hammerer invention to get the scum team a double lynch at the end of the game and surprise flawless win. Why here does scum!mcmc act like an overeager buffoon and clamer for the hammer day 1...
IT'S NOT BEING AN OVEREAGER BUFFOON. IT'S BEING A SCUM BUFFOON POORLY EXECUTING THE SCUM PLAN THEY WORKED OUT IN THE QT
But it's a terrible plan in the first place. From beginning to end. If jreggie and I are both scum jreggie claims vt, someone puts him to l-1, scum!hammerheromcmc hammers him and scum loses member but gains a nk.
Or jreggie does this plan to try to get off of being lynched and then scum!hammerheromcmc stays the hell away and let's this play out.
-
I'm not seeing in the setup where twilight lasts any specific period of time. I don't recall any PRs that need some time to activate in twilight. I'm assuming we are awaiting Robz to confirm the vote count.
Sheep: Galzria
sheep: galzria
Other town members should do the same
-
Well clearly scum!mcmc wouldn't hammer town!J Reggie D1 at this point, because man does that look scummy.
maybe you should go back to not trying to read me. Remember mM94 where i was a scum inventor and I gave you a follow power night one and played it cool and acted towny and slowly saved my super strong hammerer invention to get the scum team a double lynch at the end of the game and surprise flawless win. Why here does scum!mcmc act like an overeager buffoon and clamer for the hammer day 1...
IT'S NOT BEING AN OVEREAGER BUFFOON. IT'S BEING A SCUM BUFFOON POORLY EXECUTING THE SCUM PLAN THEY WORKED OUT IN THE QT
But it's a terrible plan in the first place. From beginning to end. If jreggie and I are both scum jreggie claims vt, someone puts him to l-1, scum!hammerheromcmc hammers him and scum loses member but gains a nk.
Or jreggie does this plan to try to get off of being lynched and then scum!hammerheromcmc stays the hell away and let's this play out.
uh, yeah pretty much
-
I'm not seeing in the setup where twilight lasts any specific period of time. I don't recall any PRs that need some time to activate in twilight. I'm assuming we are awaiting Robz to confirm the vote count.
Sheep: Galzria
sheep: galzria
Other town members should do the same
What on earth?
-
I'm not seeing in the setup where twilight lasts any specific period of time. I don't recall any PRs that need some time to activate in twilight. I'm assuming we are awaiting Robz to confirm the vote count.
Sheep: Galzria
sheep: galzria
Other town members should do the same
Or sheep your own highest town read(galz is mine), let's leave it at that and figure it out on your own.
-
can someone explain exactly what these sheep posts mean.
I assume: If I die, vote galz?
or it could be: if I die, i think galz is town?
-
I think restless sheeper is probably a scum role so major FoS on pps.
-
Read the setup, folks.
-
I'm not seeing in the setup where twilight lasts any specific period of time. I don't recall any PRs that need some time to activate in twilight. I'm assuming we are awaiting Robz to confirm the vote count.
Sheep: Galzria
sheep: galzria
Other town members should do the same
No they shouldn't.
-
eh i bet it's one of the random roll-over rolls cuzz, slots 11-13.
-
I think restless sheeper is probably a scum role so major FoS on pps.
So if your town you didn't pick restless sheeper could we STOP giving scum more information then they already have and maybe try to confuse them for a gosh darn second.
I thinks scum taking restless sheeper deals with yes being able to give a double vote to a partner but it only kicks in if restless sheeper dies so if scum!restless sheeper flips we probably aren't going to trust the person they sheeped. So wifom, but not necessarily a great scum role. If we somehow had an ic a town restless sheeper becomes quite powerful so maybe the role goes either way.
-
I'm not seeing in the setup where twilight lasts any specific period of time. I don't recall any PRs that need some time to activate in twilight. I'm assuming we are awaiting Robz to confirm the vote count.
Sheep: Galzria
sheep: galzria
Other town members should do the same
If you're town and not restless sheeper, you should not do this. It is equivalent to a fakeclaim.
mcmc are you counterclaiming pps or are you not aware that there's an actual role at play here?
-
eh i bet it's one of the random roll-over rolls cuzz, slots 11-13.
fair, fair
-
I think restless sheeper is probably a scum role so major FoS on pps.
So if your town you didn't pick restless sheeper could we STOP giving scum more information then they already have and maybe try to confuse them for a gosh darn second.
I thinks scum taking restless sheeper deals with yes being able to give a double vote to a partner but it only kicks in if restless sheeper dies so if scum!restless sheeper flips we probably aren't going to trust the person they sheeped. So wifom, but not necessarily a great scum role. If we somehow had an ic a town restless sheeper becomes quite powerful so maybe the role goes either way.
You know when a good time to talk about the Restless Sheeper would have been?
BEFORE YOU ENDED THE DAY.
-
I'm not seeing in the setup where twilight lasts any specific period of time. I don't recall any PRs that need some time to activate in twilight. I'm assuming we are awaiting Robz to confirm the vote count.
Sheep: Galzria
sheep: galzria
Other town members should do the same
No they shouldn't.
Oh you don't want town players to collectively act as though any of us could be the restless sheeper so as to hide some info from scum. Pps could have thought of this just like I did, I could be the restless sheeper, the restless sheeper could not have posted yet. Let's not give scum info.
-
I'm not seeing in the setup where twilight lasts any specific period of time. I don't recall any PRs that need some time to activate in twilight. I'm assuming we are awaiting Robz to confirm the vote count.
Sheep: Galzria
sheep: galzria
Other town members should do the same
No they shouldn't.
Oh you don't want town players to collectively act as though any of us could be the restless sheeper so as to hide some info from scum. Pps could have thought of this just like I did, I could be the restless sheeper, the restless sheeper could not have posted yet. Let's not give scum info.
Any child can see that you're no restless sheeper.
-
I'm not seeing in the setup where twilight lasts any specific period of time. I don't recall any PRs that need some time to activate in twilight. I'm assuming we are awaiting Robz to confirm the vote count.
Sheep: Galzria
sheep: galzria
Other town members should do the same
No they shouldn't.
Oh you don't want town players to collectively act as though any of us could be the restless sheeper so as to hide some info from scum. Pps could have thought of this just like I did, I could be the restless sheeper, the restless sheeper could not have posted yet. Let's not give scum info.
NO THEY SHOULD NOT DO THIS. YOU DO NOT FAKECLAIM PRS AS TOWN.
-
I think restless sheeper is probably a scum role so major FoS on pps.
So if your town you didn't pick restless sheeper could we STOP giving scum more information then they already have and maybe try to confuse them for a gosh darn second.
I thinks scum taking restless sheeper deals with yes being able to give a double vote to a partner but it only kicks in if restless sheeper dies so if scum!restless sheeper flips we probably aren't going to trust the person they sheeped. So wifom, but not necessarily a great scum role. If we somehow had an ic a town restless sheeper becomes quite powerful so maybe the role goes either way.
You know when a good time to talk about the Restless Sheeper would have been?
BEFORE YOU ENDED THE DAY.
Why because you need more time to think about a very simple scenario that is "if town has a restless sheeper, they have to post a sheep target before the night, we also want scum to not know how that person is, so we should all post a sheep target"
-
It's not fake claiming isn't allowing the restless sheeper to not have to claim by using their role!
-
It would have been good to organize this for everyone, but you know, it is too late for that now.
-
O - I reread Awaclus and came to the same conclusion I've had about him the entire game thusfar:
He came in like RR with a statement of not participating because it's too large. Unlike RR, he then got on you for some seeming scumslip where you admit you're trying to win by making town lose - which I responded to at the time:
He's openly admitted that he's trying to win, and have fun at the same time.
And have town not win at the same time.
Lynching on the basis of rude, unhelpful one-liners surely won't be some exceedingly pro-town strategy
I certainly am trying to win.
He's saying he's voting you for being anti-fun, and that it "surely won't be some exceedingly pro-town strategy" --- In the same way that voting someone who is being anti-town (RR's "I'm not reading all this") "surely won't be some exceedingly pro-town strategy" - as neither are exceedingly likely to find scum.
At least that's my take.
He then continues to push this false notion of what you said, in the face of almost universal agreement against him from everyone else here. There isn't much content to his posts other than "O is scum, O is scum, O is scum, O is scum, O is scum".
LaLight, would you mind shedding some, um, light on the following? And how does that relate to his play so far this game?
That's a good question, actually. LaLight of all people should know how effective my scumhunting technique is, given that I've read him correctly every single time.
Honestly, he hasn't really contributed much of anything outside of his "O is scum" campaign - which never had legs to begin with. It reminds me of our first games together O (here's the nostalgia for you), where I was certain based on your playstyle every game that you were scum, and you never were. I think I usually ended up lynched D1 back then, and you went on to be town. Shows how well that worked for me.
Ultimately right now I feel the same way about Awaclus as I previously stated about RoadRunner:
Lastly, RR is a poor lynch choice for being "anti-town". At least, for now. If nothing better surfaces as d1 continues and he hasn't tried to play we can reevaluate. Until then, I don't like it.
Posting as I catch up, so I haven't read anything past the quoted post above.
What you describe is just plain Awaclus. He firmly believes (or makes a very strong showing of firmly believing) that his own way of thinking/playing/living is the only correct way, and sticks to it to a fault. He believes that others will play the same way he does, even though we all know they don't, and when they don't meet his particular expectation of perfect town play, he assumes it is because they are scum.
When he's right, it enforces his belief. When he's wrong, he finds an excuse for why he was actually right.
It is not alignment-indicative, unfortunately. He's pretty good at faking this as scum, because he doesn't have to fake what others are doing.
-
It's not fake claiming isn't it is allowing the restless sheeper to not have to claim by using their role!
-
I think restless sheeper is probably a scum role so major FoS on pps.
So if your town you didn't pick restless sheeper could we STOP giving scum more information then they already have and maybe try to confuse them for a gosh darn second.
I thinks scum taking restless sheeper deals with yes being able to give a double vote to a partner but it only kicks in if restless sheeper dies so if scum!restless sheeper flips we probably aren't going to trust the person they sheeped. So wifom, but not necessarily a great scum role. If we somehow had an ic a town restless sheeper becomes quite powerful so maybe the role goes either way.
You know when a good time to talk about the Restless Sheeper would have been?
BEFORE YOU ENDED THE DAY.
Why because you need more time to think about a very simple scenario that is "if town has a restless sheeper, they have to post a sheep target before the night, we also want scum to not know how that person is, so we should all post a sheep target"
No because pretty obviously not everyone will be able to post before the day ends.
-
But I'm serious. I want Galz to say a reason for typing a zero instead of an o, which is not something that happens accidentally, or else there might have to be some mod action.
This is absolutely crazy to think that the 0 is some sort of cryptography.
The question: does town!Reggie do this or scum!Reggie? I think this comes from scum!reggie trying additional diversion techniques to draw away from their wagon
This is slightly more of a scum move than town move, but maybe like 2% more. Not sure how much that should move needles.
-
mcmc are you gonna take immunity or the extra NK tonight?
-
When he's right, it enforces his belief. When he's wrong, he finds an excuse for why he was actually right.
I don't have to find an excuse, I'm inherently right.
-
Anyone wonder why jreggie hasn't said anything yet. Oh right because he's scum and I hammered him because I'm town, not because I'm stupid scum with a stupid plan to do stupid suspicious things all for one more nk day 1.
-
I'm not seeing in the setup where twilight lasts any specific period of time. I don't recall any PRs that need some time to activate in twilight. I'm assuming we are awaiting Robz to confirm the vote count.
Sheep: Galzria
sheep: galzria
Other town members should do the same
No they shouldn't.
Oh you don't want town players to collectively act as though any of us could be the restless sheeper so as to hide some info from scum. Pps could have thought of this just like I did, I could be the restless sheeper, the restless sheeper could not have posted yet. Let's not give scum info.
NO THEY SHOULD NOT DO THIS. YOU DO NOT FAKECLAIM PRS AS TOWN.
Is there where I mention that i was the hammer hero all along?
-
Anyone wonder why jreggie hasn't said anything yet. Oh right because he's scum and I hammered him because I'm town, not because I'm stupid scum with a stupid plan to do stupid suspicious things all for one more nk day 1.
Oh I assumed it's because he's asleep. But of course your explanation for someone not posting an a 1-hour period maeks way more sense.
-
mcmc are you gonna take immunity or the extra NK tonight?
Scum almost certainly knows whether there's a town vig or not. But then there's lots of wifom there about whether the vig should shoot mcmc.
Who are your top NK targets, mcmc? Lots of people have a pretty strong townread on me, but I don't know how amazing my reads have been so if they're bad maybe you want to keep me around.
-
I'm not seeing in the setup where twilight lasts any specific period of time. I don't recall any PRs that need some time to activate in twilight. I'm assuming we are awaiting Robz to confirm the vote count.
Sheep: Galzria
sheep: galzria
Other town members should do the same
No they shouldn't.
Oh you don't want town players to collectively act as though any of us could be the restless sheeper so as to hide some info from scum. Pps could have thought of this just like I did, I could be the restless sheeper, the restless sheeper could not have posted yet. Let's not give scum info.
NO THEY SHOULD NOT DO THIS. YOU DO NOT FAKECLAIM PRS AS TOWN.
Is there where I mention that i was the hammer hero all along?
I like this guy
-
Morning all. Not sure why I'm awake this early.
I like the self-hammering plan to avoid the hammer hero thing too early, but at the same time I do definitely feel like the IC comment from JR is off. I'm willing to vote: JR over it.
Scummiest JR vote all game.
I'll comment further on the whole plan/IC/hammer hero avoidance method when I'm caught up.
-
mcmc are you gonna take immunity or the extra NK tonight?
mcmc are you gonna take immunity or the extra NK tonight?
You really think I'm going to answer that. Maybe I am a hammer hero, maybe I'm not, maybe if I was I'd take immunity, maybe if I was I'd shoot my top scumread. Guess who I don't want to know the answer to any of these questions. Scum because I will answer one question I'm town!
For the love of god stop trying to give scum all the information about everyone's role and what they are doing.
-
I'm not seeing in the setup where twilight lasts any specific period of time. I don't recall any PRs that need some time to activate in twilight. I'm assuming we are awaiting Robz to confirm the vote count.
Sheep: Galzria
sheep: galzria
Other town members should do the same
No they shouldn't.
Oh you don't want town players to collectively act as though any of us could be the restless sheeper so as to hide some info from scum. Pps could have thought of this just like I did, I could be the restless sheeper, the restless sheeper could not have posted yet. Let's not give scum info.
You know which faction is pretty good at acting collectively?
-
maybe if I was I'd shoot my top scumread.
faust death confirmed.
-
For the love of god stop trying to give scum all the information
This.
-
I have been consistent since my first post of the game. Scum knows there roles and slots, they want to know town roles and slots so they know who they should and shouldn't kill. It is in town's best interest for now to give scum no information about what any of our roles are. This includes hammer hero and restless sheeper.
-
For the love of god stop trying to give scum all the information
This.
For this first time awaclus I'm so so happy you are here to objectively point out how regardless of alignment this is a good thing. Would you like to maybe use your restless sheeper power at your discretion.
-
Just you know, don't believe mcmc for a second if I'm dead tomorrow. Thank you.
-
don't let this derailing conversation distract you from the fact that MCMC claimed to know things about the scum QT that are not present on the rules page.
Also don't let the fact that MCMC is scum distract you from the fact that the warriors blew a 3-1 lead.
-
don't let this derailing conversation distract you from the fact that MCMC claimed to know things about the scum QT that are not present on the rules page.
Also don't let the fact that MCMC is scum distract you from the fact that the warriors blew a 3-1 lead.
🔥🔥🔥
-
THREAD LOCKED while I check to see if there was a hammer.
-
Rule clarifications:
Galzria did not commit a rules violation pertaining to cryptography.
The Hammer Hero may not fire a shot if the Hammer Hero was lynched the previous day.
The Mafia QT does not open at twilight, nor does any other QT.
Twilight does not last a certain period of time in this setup. It can end immediately upon hammer, or hours later, depending on whether I'm awake.
Vote Count 1.12
mcmcsalot (1): RoadRunner7671
J Reggie (10): 2.7128...., Dylan32, gkrieg13, LaLight, JaketheBaseballGod22, sudgy, iguanaiguana, SpaceAnemone, The_Wine_Merchant, mcmcsalot
The_Wine_Merchant (1): ashersky
O (1): Awaclus
gkrieg13 (1): AndrewisFTTW
RoadRunner7671 (1): Cuzz
LaLight (2): Galzria, pingpongsam
Galzria (2): J Reggie, faust
Awaclus (2): O, Eevee
Not Voting (2): Calamitas, Jimmmmm
With 23 alive it took just 10 to lynch.
-
Unvote. Possibilities, dreams of not being lynched...ec. By the way, am not guilty at all, and my vote was not to end agony.
If my unvote can't save you now, what makes you think yours can?
J Reggie, the Vanilla Townie, has been lynched.
Night 1 begins now. All players must check-in with me during Night 1 by posting in their personal or shared QTs. Failure to do so could result in modkill. Actions are due within 48 hours. Day 2 begins Sunday at 10:00 AM Forum Time.
-
Additional clarification: There is NO QT that opens at twilight.
-
Yet more clarifications:
I am not sure how this issue was handled in the past, but I suspect it might be different from how I am handling it here. If you have an X-shot role that fails because you were blocked or jailed, it will not succeed, and also, your shot will not be used up. If it fails because your target was jailed, your shot WILL be used up.
I will not tell you how many shots, if any, you have left.
A player receives "No Result" if the player was supposed to receive a result, but was blocked or jailed, or if the target avoided being targeted (for example, via Commuting). If a player was supposed to receive a result, but there was no result to receive--i.e., Player A tracks Player B, Player B takes no action--the player also receives "No Result."
For the curious, the maximum number of possible night deaths under the setup is eight:
1. Mafia factional kill
2. Serial Killer / Werewolf factional kill
3. Vigilante kill
4. Hammer Hero kill
5. Poisoner invention
6. Motivator invention "Throne Room-ing" one of the above kills
7. Mason's death
8. Hider's death
(Note: This analysis assumes the presence of certain roles that may have actually gone un-drafted.)
-
Inventions are received during the day. If a player receives an invention the player will be informed immediately.
-
The Hammer Hero's kill cannot be Bus Driven or Lightning Rod'd: it takes place before Bus Driving occurs. Same goes for the Hammer Hero's protection, though this power is passive and couldn't be Bus Driven anyway.
-
Theoretical death toll updated above.
-
"No Result" clarification updated: An investigation of a jailed player would succeed. An investigation of a Commuted player, however, would fail and return "No Result."
-
we have to get the ball rolling somehow though. i just dont have any suspicions yet, everyone seems friendly and townish.. false security?
I say we kill Robz... out of sympathy for him. He's in too many of these anyways.
Calamitas, the Mafia Goon, has been killed.
Gkrieg13, the Vanilla Townie, has been killed.
DAY 2 START!
THREAD UNLOCKED.
-
Nice! One mafia down
-
Also sorry that jreggie was town, hopefully everyone who wanted us to "wait" to end the day has actually caught up overnight. Also now that we actually have night results of people would like to I think there may or may not be some intelligent claims people can make and some setup speculation that could be had.
-
Also sorry I was lurking so hard. I'll try to be better today.
-
Hm. I need to read again. I was not paying attention to Calamitas.
-
Also sorry I was lurking so hard. I'll try to be better today.
Also on the first thing you say?
-
Hi! I'm still alive.
Calamitas looks like an SK shot? It's definitely more likely that there is one now. Or Werewolves I suppose.
There is something I may or may not want to talk about.
-
Scum dying at night definitely tempers the mislynch (kind of like M98 which I can talk about now)
Definitely need to go back and look at gkrieg/calamitas though.
-
I'll look at Calamitas mentions.
First post in, he's scumreading TWM.
We have interactions with Cuzz and Space, which are not in any way conclusive. BUt the fact that they interacted makes them ever so slightly more likely partners.
Cuzz points out Calamitas as a lurker.
Some interaction with mcmc and Awaclus. mcmc later points out that Calamitas is completely within his meta. Not sure if his partner wants to be the one pointing that out.
Calamitas is in Cuzz' would lynch, one of five. Also in Eevee's, though that one is twice the size.
No vote or read across the whole day. Yikes.
-
Cuzz is the one who looks the most partnerish, but you know, the evidence is thin.
-
Anyway vote: Cuzz for now.
-
Vote Count 2.0
Cuzz (1): faust
Not Voting (19): Jimmmmm, RoadRunner7671, 2.7128...., Dylan32, LaLight, JaketheBaseballGod22, sudgy, iguanaiguana, SpaceAnemone, The_Wine_Merchant, mcmcsalot, ashersky, Awaclus, AndrewisFTTW, Cuzz, Galzria, pingpongsam, O, Eevee
With 20 alive it takes just 10 to lynch. Day 2 ends on Sunday, May 28th, at 11:00 AM Forum Time.
-
So Awaclus is likely to be town. FYI
-
So Awaclus is likely to be town. FYI
I can confirm this.
-
Robz QT explanations have partially defended MCMC but his actions still seem super scummy to me. As do those who pushed so hard to continue the wagon under some fishy reasoning of "he's doing what a VT would do, scumtell".
Faust's case against Cuzz seems exceedingly weak because Cuzz was the most active poster when calamitas wasn't fully lurking, so I'd expect him to be the one with interactions regardless.
Also
Calamitas looks like an SK shot? It's definitely more likely that there is one now. Or Werewolves I suppose.
I don't think many people thought it likely we had a survivor at all. I think it's odd that's the scenario you were invested in thinking about.
-
Robz QT explanations have partially defended MCMC but his actions still seem super scummy to me. As do those who pushed so hard to continue the wagon under some fishy reasoning of "he's doing what a VT would do, scumtell".
What is this?
-
Also
Calamitas looks like an SK shot? It's definitely more likely that there is one now. Or Werewolves I suppose.
I don't think many people thought it likely we had a survivor at all. I think it's odd that's the scenario you were invested in thinking about.
I was not. SK can also convert to VT, and since that probably drastically increases their chances of winning, it's a slot that they would quite likely take if given the chance.
-
Also sorry that jreggie was town, hopefully everyone who wanted us to "wait" to end the day has actually caught up overnight. Also now that we actually have night results of people would like to I think there may or may not be some intelligent claims people can make and some setup speculation that could be had.
Vote: Mcmc
-
Robz QT explanations have partially defended MCMC but his actions still seem super scummy to me. As do those who pushed so hard to continue the wagon under some fishy reasoning of "he's doing what a VT would do, scumtell".
What is this?
what is what? There's two suspicions there.
1. MCMCMC's hammer felt scummy
2. The scummiest part of the wagon is the post-claim portion of the wagon to me, specifically those that reacted to J Reggie's "plan" like it's a scumtell.
-
Also
Calamitas looks like an SK shot? It's definitely more likely that there is one now. Or Werewolves I suppose.
I don't think many people thought it likely we had a survivor at all. I think it's odd that's the scenario you were invested in thinking about.
I was not. SK can also convert to VT, and since that probably drastically increases their chances of winning, it's a slot that they would quite likely take if given the chance.
nevermind then
-
Robz QT explanations have partially defended MCMC but his actions still seem super scummy to me. As do those who pushed so hard to continue the wagon under some fishy reasoning of "he's doing what a VT would do, scumtell".
What is this?
what is what? There's two suspicions there.
1. MCMCMC's hammer felt scummy
2. The scummiest part of the wagon is the post-claim portion of the wagon to me, specifically those that reacted to J Reggie's "plan" like it's a scumtell.
Sorry. Meant to snip more. I meant the Robz QT explanations. I am not sure what you are talking about.
-
Robz QT explanations have partially defended MCMC but his actions still seem super scummy to me. As do those who pushed so hard to continue the wagon under some fishy reasoning of "he's doing what a VT would do, scumtell".
What is this?
what is what? There's two suspicions there.
1. MCMCMC's hammer felt scummy
2. The scummiest part of the wagon is the post-claim portion of the wagon to me, specifically those that reacted to J Reggie's "plan" like it's a scumtell.
Sorry. Meant to snip more. I meant the Robz QT explanations. I am not sure what you are talking about.
Pretty sure he meant posts 1491 to 1496.
-
Sorry. Meant to snip more. I meant the Robz QT explanations. I am not sure what you are talking about.
I thought MCMC had a big scumslip when he started spewing random things about "twilight QT" being an argument that the Hammer Hero might be able to act while dead, assuming he had info I didn't on faction QT's.
Robz basically confirmed that what MCMC said about QTs was actually entirely false..? which makes it not as directly a scumslip in the least.
-
Well hey! Somebody did something.
Vote: mcmc
-
So Awaclus is likely to be town. FYI
Is there an explanation for this?
-
So Awaclus is likely to be town. FYI
Is there an explanation for this?
Does there need to be?
-
So Awaclus is likely to be town. FYI
Is there an explanation for this?
Does there need to be?
Need in what sense? It's a pointless post without an explanation. Not every post needs a point I guess.
-
Also I think mcmc is town.
-
So Awaclus is likely to be town. FYI
Is there an explanation for this?
Does it look like there's an explanation?
-
That's blatant explanationfishing by the way.
-
So Awaclus is likely to be town. FYI
Is there an explanation for this?
Does there need to be?
Need in what sense? It's a pointless post without an explanation. Not every post needs a point I guess.
It's far from pointless. We now know that there is no scenario in which we lynch Awaclus before we lynch TWM, at least for a couple of days. Plus, if TWM ever dies, we will likely know everything we need.
-
So Awaclus is likely to be town. FYI
Is there an explanation for this?
Does there need to be?
Need in what sense? It's a pointless post without an explanation. Not every post needs a point I guess.
It's far from pointless. We now know that there is no scenario in which we lynch Awaclus before we lynch TWM, at least for a couple of days. Plus, if TWM ever dies, we will likely know everything we need.
Ding!
And thanks O. I still think mcmc is a bad lynch. I feel like I can decently read him these days and this is him bring town. Not mafia.
-
Don't have much time at the moment as I'm heading in to work, but a couple of quick things:
I don't think mcmc is scum. That's a really brazen play scum!mcmc to make, even if he is the HH.
LaLight, I would like to touch more on your thoughts now that we know Reggie was town.
Faust is probably town.
-
I'll be in a car for the next 3.5 hours. Reading in a car gives me migraines so I am going to try my best to stay away till then.
-
Sorry. Meant to snip more. I meant the Robz QT explanations. I am not sure what you are talking about.
I thought MCMC had a big scumslip when he started spewing random things about "twilight QT" being an argument that the Hammer Hero might be able to act while dead, assuming he had info I didn't on faction QT's.
Robz basically confirmed that what MCMC said about QTs was actually entirely false..? which makes it not as directly a scumslip in the least.
I agree. I was ready to park a vote on mcmc and not move it, but when Robz clarified the QT info I swung hard the other way. I sincerely doubt mcmc is mafia.
-
So Awaclus is likely to be town. FYI
Is there an explanation for this?
Does there need to be?
Need in what sense? It's a pointless post without an explanation. Not every post needs a point I guess.
It's far from pointless. We now know that there is no scenario in which we lynch Awaclus before we lynch TWM, at least for a couple of days. Plus, if TWM ever dies, we will likely know everything we need.
So we're meant to conclude that it's more than a read?
-
So Awaclus is likely to be town. FYI
Is there an explanation for this?
Does there need to be?
Need in what sense? It's a pointless post without an explanation. Not every post needs a point I guess.
It's far from pointless. We now know that there is no scenario in which we lynch Awaclus before we lynch TWM, at least for a couple of days. Plus, if TWM ever dies, we will likely know everything we need.
So we're meant to conclude that it's more than a read?
Dude, shut up.
-
Vote: Jimmm
-
So Awaclus is likely to be town. FYI
Is there an explanation for this?
Does there need to be?
Need in what sense? It's a pointless post without an explanation. Not every post needs a point I guess.
It's far from pointless. We now know that there is no scenario in which we lynch Awaclus before we lynch TWM, at least for a couple of days. Plus, if TWM ever dies, we will likely know everything we need.
So we're meant to conclude that it's more than a read?
Dude, shut up.
Why? I asked a simple question and have not been given an answer. A simple "No there's no explanation" would suffice.
-
Vote: Jimmm
Why?
-
Vote: Jimmm
Why?
There's no explanation.
-
Vote: Jimmm
Why?
I think because you seem to be trying to fish the source of info and are somehow not understanding why that might be anti-town.
-
I strongly think Cuzz is town. Clearly this means Faust is scummy for suspecting Cuzz.
Vote: Faust
please don't question my obvious softclaim it's anti-town to not let everyone softclaim in entirely unverifiable ways that scum could easily abuse and anyone who disagrees with this meta is clearly scummy.
Also I'm going to arbitrarily declare that other people are towny at various points please don't question this i just like power and control.
-
Vote: Jimmm
Why?
I think because you seem to be trying to fish the source of info and are somehow not understanding why that might be anti-town.
What's the point of giving confusing half information? If it's meant to be breadcrumbing it fails miserably. If it's meant to give Awaclus semi-IC status then it also fails. It's just confusing and potentially misleading for Town, while also being potentially helpful for scum. I'm all for not claiming at this stage of the game, and I don't think we should be feeding scum little tidbits either. It's also something TWM can back out of later if it no longer suits him.
-
I strongly think Cuzz is town.
Am I allowed to ask why?
-
I strongly think Cuzz is town.
Am I allowed to ask why?
Yes, but only if you're the Werewolf faction.
I strongly thought Cuzz was town because he was the one who posted above me for that post.
-
To clarify: The vote on Faust was not in any way satirical, though it's not a particularly vested vote. Strongly identifying seemingly random people as town without any evidence of it being PR related (as it was his style d1 too) is scum tactics.
-
I'm in the mcmc didn't really resemble scum to me at all yesterday camp.
I'm more surprised gkrieg flipped town. I think he was targeted out of fear.
Not at all surprised Calamitas was scum, though. If he had done anything yesterday I probably would have voted him.
-
Vote: O
-
Unfortunately I obviously won't be getting you lynched today Awaclus. There's no reason to without a TWM scumflip. You likely can't get me lynched either, but I appreciate remaining in your heart and mind.
-
I thought O was the 2 shot vig
-
I thought O was the 2 shot vig
Awaclus is alive tho
-
I thought O was the 2 shot vig
Awaclus is alive tho
The serial killer has odd night bulletproof tho
-
I thought O was the 2 shot vig
Awaclus is alive tho
The serial killer has odd night bulletproof tho
I have an extremely strong town read on Roadrunner. This is definitely a softclaim.
-
I don't think any of my info was confusing or half or misleading. Take it for what it was. I'll say more if I have more to say.
-
I don't think any of my info was confusing or half or misleading. Take it for what it was. I'll say more if I have more to say.
it wasn't in the slightest, I just think it was said way too early/ridiculously too blatantly for how early it is. Could definitely have waited until Awaclus was actually close to being at risk, and breadcrumb it slightly more softly for incase you get Nightkilled. Also I don't think Jimmmmm is scummy for anything he said.
-
Vote Count 2.1
Cuzz (1): faust
mcmcsalot (2): JaketheBaseballGod22, Jimmmmm
Jimmmmm (1): The_Wine_Merchant
faust (1): O
O (1): Awaclus
Not Voting (14): RoadRunner7671, 2.7128...., Dylan32, LaLight, sudgy, iguanaiguana, SpaceAnemone, mcmcsalot, ashersky, AndrewisFTTW, Cuzz, Galzria, pingpongsam, Eevee
With 20 alive it takes just 10 to lynch. Day 2 ends on Sunday, May 28th, at 11:00 AM Forum Time.
-
Yeah I agree with the consensus about mcmc being town. I kinda missed the end of yesterday so I probably need to reread that before posting much else.
Vote: Jimmm
Why?
I think because you seem to be trying to fish the source of info and are somehow not understanding why that might be anti-town.
Sorry I don't buy this at all. I don't think fishing is really a thing anyway.
Vote: Cuzz
-
Yeah I agree with the consensus about mcmc being town. I kinda missed the end of yesterday so I probably need to reread that before posting much else.
Vote: Jimmm
Why?
I think because you seem to be trying to fish the source of info and are somehow not understanding why that might be anti-town.
Sorry I don't buy this at all. I don't think fishing is really a thing anyway.
Vote: Cuzz
I was clarify to Jimmmm what was clearly TWM/Awaclus's reasoning. I was not trying to imply that I subscribed to that reasoning myself.
But also, of course generally fishing is a thing.
Also this is a bad vote and I'm not sure you've been paying attention to anything I've done all game if this is enough for you to vote for me.
Also you're among my top scumreads since yesterday anyway, and omgus is fun so Vote: Andrew
-
I want to know more about Jake and Jimmmm's votes for mcmc.
To both of you: What do you think about mcmc's mistake regarding the scum QT? Please read that carefully because I think it should be clearly accounted for if you truly believe he is scum.
-
I was happy with my vote on Andrew yesterday and I'm glad someone else will join me.
Vote: Andrew
-
Yeah I agree with the consensus about mcmc being town. I kinda missed the end of yesterday so I probably need to reread that before posting much else.
Vote: Jimmm
Why?
I think because you seem to be trying to fish the source of info and are somehow not understanding why that might be anti-town.
Sorry I don't buy this at all. I don't think fishing is really a thing anyway.
Vote: Cuzz
I was clarify to Jimmmm what was clearly TWM/Awaclus's reasoning. I was not trying to imply that I subscribed to that reasoning myself.
But also, of course generally fishing is a thing.
Also this is a bad vote and I'm not sure you've been paying attention to anything I've done all game if this is enough for you to vote for me.
Also you're among my top scumreads since yesterday anyway, and omgus is fun so Vote: Andrew
Oh really? What about my like 4 posts has you convinced I'm scum?
-
Yes of course fishing is a thing, I just don't think people do it
-
I was happy with my vote on Andrew yesterday and I'm glad someone else will join me.
Vote: Andrew
You've seen me as scum. How is my play here similar to my scum games?
-
Andrew, I am confused why your first post of the day started with Also.
-
Andrew, I am confused why your first post of the day started with Also.
Because mcmc said also in his second post, it was kind of a play off of that.
-
Cuzz is the one who looks the most partnerish, but you know, the evidence is thin.
I'm not sure Calamitas would do too much forced interaction, since his meta is to have even more of a hard time of D1 than I do. I specifically asked him a question to get him to say something, and because a conversation about claiming and evidence is something I can do much better than a conversation about reads.
I didn't pick up anything alignment-indicative from the way he responded. If his death came from a third-faction shot hoping to hit scum, I think it's a pretty lucky kill. Why wouldn't they go after someone who's more likely to be a PR?
-
I was happy with my vote on Andrew yesterday and I'm glad someone else will join me.
Vote: Andrew
You've seen me as scum. How is my play here similar to my scum games?
presumably you tunneled on later-confirmed town members in your scum games aswell?
personally I don't get why you're voting for Cuzz for explaining other people's reasoning for being mad at Jimmmm. That seems very tangential to any real reason to me.
-
I was happy with my vote on Andrew yesterday and I'm glad someone else will join me.
Vote: Andrew
You've seen me as scum. How is my play here similar to my scum games?
Initially flippant and dismissive, never fully committed to his reads until its clutch time. Doesn't bother posting much unless there's some traction to gain somewhere for the scum team. Otherwise largely ignores any pressure towards him. Like water like fog. Expect this to be amplified in a larger game where it takes longer for clutch time to arrive.
-
Not at all surprised Calamitas was scum, though. If he had done anything yesterday I probably would have voted him.
Really? What did you see there?
-
I want to know more about Jake and Jimmmm's votes for mcmc.
To both of you: What do you think about mcmc's mistake regarding the scum QT? Please read that carefully because I think it should be clearly accounted for if you truly believe he is scum.
I would love to know this as well. My guess is Jake legitimately thinks I'm scummy (I don't think he has a fantastic scum radar) and I think jimm is "policy" voting me for ending the day early when he asked for time to catch up.
-
To clarify: The vote on Faust was not in any way satirical, though it's not a particularly vested vote. Strongly identifying seemingly random people as town without any evidence of it being PR related (as it was his style d1 too) is scum tactics.
You're claiming that your vote isn't satirical, but your behaviour following TWM's though on Awaclus seems to be trying to add confusion/uncertainty around softclaiming that really doesn't need to be there (for example with your softclaim on RR at #1550, which I now take to be some kind of illustrative fabrication on your part). Why should we not encourage people tie their opinions to others' alignments?
-
I was happy with my vote on Andrew yesterday and I'm glad someone else will join me.
Vote: Andrew
You've seen me as scum. How is my play here similar to my scum games?
Initially flippant and dismissive, never fully committed to his reads until its clutch time. Doesn't bother posting much unless there's some traction to gain somewhere for the scum team. Otherwise largely ignores any pressure towards him. Like water like fog. Expect this to be amplified in a larger game where it takes longer for clutch time to arrive.
Wow it's like you keeps notes on people or something. But I disagree with the "doesn't bother posting much...". In my two recent scum games I posted a ton D1. In this game I was very busy and also very overwhelmed by the amount of posts and didn't feel like I had much to add since I was so far behind.
I was happy with my vote on Andrew yesterday and I'm glad someone else will join me.
Vote: Andrew
You've seen me as scum. How is my play here similar to my scum games?
presumably you tunneled on later-confirmed town members in your scum games aswell?
personally I don't get why you're voting for Cuzz for explaining other people's reasoning for being mad at Jimmmm. That seems very tangential to any real reason to me.
I took Cuzz's post to be slightly sarcastic in a "I shouldn't have to explain this to you" way. Apparently that was incorrect. And are you implying that I was tunneling gkrieg? I wouldn't necessarily call it that considering I posted so little. And he wasn't my only scumread.
Unvote
-
To clarify: The vote on Faust was not in any way satirical, though it's not a particularly vested vote. Strongly identifying seemingly random people as town without any evidence of it being PR related (as it was his style d1 too) is scum tactics.
You're claiming that your vote isn't satirical, but your behaviour following TWM's though on Awaclus seems to be trying to add confusion/uncertainty around softclaiming that really doesn't need to be there (for example with your softclaim on RR at #1550, which I now take to be some kind of illustrative fabrication on your part). Why should we not encourage people tie their opinions to others' alignments?
Are you asking about my vote on Faust or my opinion of softclaims? I'm not against softclaims, but I fail to see the benefit of doing it at the start of today when Awaclus is at no risk of being lynched soon. Even if you're worried about Nightkills you do it at the end of the day or once a wagon starts to deny Mafia the ability to play today around that information.
-
Not at all surprised Calamitas was scum, though. If he had done anything yesterday I probably would have voted him.
Really? What did you see there?
Clammy toes lurking, hiding, and sneakily staying out of sight. But anyway, I always scum read was what I was really saying.
-
Not at all surprised Calamitas was scum, though. If he had done anything yesterday I probably would have voted him.
Really? What did you see there?
Clammy toes lurking, hiding, and sneakily staying out of sight. But anyway, I always scum read was what I was really saying.
Wait you are saying you always scum read calm?
-
Also you're among my top scumreads since yesterday anyway, and omgus is fun so Vote: Andrew
Oh really? What about my like 4 posts has you convinced I'm scum?
Glad you asked! And nice try on using your own lurky behavior to dissuade scumreads on you.
For anyone interested in possibly voting for Andrew today, please consider the following:
Andrew's first post of the day was this:
Gettin' the vibes from e. The scummy ones.
Vote: e
This post features a vote with no justification of any kind. That's ok in this case since this was still RVS more or less. But it was Andrew's only post of the game for the next 4.5 hours or so--not a lot objectively, but there was a LOT of activity during that period D1, and it seemed mildly suspicious to pop in just to plant an RVS vote.
He spends most of the rest of the day tunnelling gkrieg:
which is interesting because all this time his vote is still on e and doesn't vote for gkrieg until after ash votes for him:
Still not totally caught up yet but I do agree with ash about gkrieg. He just seems a little off and not like his assertive scumhunting town self.
Vote: gkrieg
The rest of the content from D1 is discussion of his own meta and whether he would act this way as scum, which I think is a scumtell. Too lazy to pull all those quotes, but there's a bunch and he even does it in his deeper quote here:
I was happy with my vote on Andrew yesterday and I'm glad someone else will join me.
Vote: Andrew
You've seen me as scum. How is my play here similar to my scum games?
presumably you tunneled on later-confirmed town members in your scum games aswell?
personally I don't get why you're voting for Cuzz for explaining other people's reasoning for being mad at Jimmmm. That seems very tangential to any real reason to me.
I took Cuzz's post to be slightly sarcastic in a "I shouldn't have to explain this to you" way. Apparently that was incorrect. And are you implying that I was tunneling gkrieg? I wouldn't necessarily call it that considering I posted so little. And he wasn't my only scumread.
Unvote
To respond to these last pieces above:
a. My post definitely was "slightly sarcastic in a 'I shouldn't have to explain this to you' way."
b. I would call it tunneling. See all the citations above.
c. If Andrew had other scumreads and can point me to posts D1 that illustrated that, I'd love to see them, but he can't because I just combed through all his posts and they're not there.
-
I want to know more about Jake and Jimmmm's votes for mcmc.
To both of you: What do you think about mcmc's mistake regarding the scum QT? Please read that carefully because I think it should be clearly accounted for if you truly believe he is scum.
I would love to know this as well. My guess is Jake legitimately thinks I'm scummy (I don't think he has a fantastic scum radar) and I think jimm is "policy" voting me for ending the day early when he asked for time to catch up.
It's not a policy vote, it's more of an "I think you're vaguely scummy so I'm happy to put you on 2 pending further re-reading.
-
Just because I don't post about something (like reads) doesn't mean I don't have an opinion on it. I wasn't voting gkrieg because I was trying to get caught up, which I never did, and I didn't want to derphammer by accident as unlikely as that would be.
And since I did correctly interpret your sarcastic response to Jimm...
Vote: Cuzz
-
"
-
I am not feeling the Andrew wagon. gkrieg was significantly different yesterday and I had a question mark next to him in my QT, so I see where Andrew's vote was coming from.
At the least I think we can say Andrew and ash aren't scum partners. As I think they would have argued against a gkrieg NK.
-
Someone I remember having a strong town read on sudgy? Or am I making that up? Otherwise he might become my preferred lynch today. But I can't remember/find it while on the iPad.
-
I am not feeling the Andrew wagon. gkrieg was significantly different yesterday and I had a question mark next to him in my QT, so I see where Andrew's vote was coming from.
At the least I think we can say Andrew and ash aren't scum partners. As I think they would have argued against a gkrieg NK.
The vast vast majority of pairs of people in this game are not scum partners.
-
Someone I remember having a strong town read on sudgy? Or am I making that up? Otherwise he might become my preferred lynch today. But I can't remember/find it while on the iPad.
I can't fathom why anyone could have a townread on someone who has posted that little.
-
Just because I don't post about something (like reads) doesn't mean I don't have an opinion on it. I wasn't voting gkrieg because I was trying to get caught up, which I never did, and I didn't want to derphammer by accident as unlikely as that would be.
And since I did correctly interpret your sarcastic response to Jimm...
Vote: Cuzz
Andrew, can you explain why you think my response to Jimmmm is indicative of a scum alignment?
-
wow, the night was quite cool. But I really do wonder what stays behing both kills, they are quite weird
-
I want to vote: Space for that JR vote and for this post:
Cuzz is the one who looks the most partnerish, but you know, the evidence is thin.
I'm not sure Calamitas would do too much forced interaction, since his meta is to have even more of a hard time of D1 than I do. I specifically asked him a question to get him to say something, and because a conversation about claiming and evidence is something I can do much better than a conversation about reads.
I didn't pick up anything alignment-indicative from the way he responded. If his death came from a third-faction shot hoping to hit scum, I think it's a pretty lucky kill. Why wouldn't they go after someone who's more likely to be a PR?
I can perfectly see it coming from Calamitas' partner
-
I know faust kind of did this already, but I feel like there's a bit of info to be gleaned from Calamitas' posts. These are the only two posts that he mentions other players:
This game is really huge.
In regard to the game, I don't like the extent to which TWM is talking about vigs here.
Can someone voting for JReggie present the case in a nytshell?
I don't like that first one. Of all the things people were talking about (mainly a lot of setup speculation), Calamitas mentions TWM's vig talk, which he only mentioned twice, and the last mention was several pages before. It's just an awkward thing to mention. I've already had a scumread on TWM anyway, so maybe there's confirmation bias, but I feel like this is the only thing that Calamitas said that could lead to anything. There's also this interaction:
Guys, I cannot follow really. Can someone give me a short version with the reasoning for all claims with all relevant evidence?
(Please tag it with @Cala). This game is just crazy.
@Cala.
Very few if any of the votes have any substantial reasons at all. This is the hardest game I have had getting reads that are much good at all and I am fully caught up and aware. This isn't going to change until we get some flips. But apparently we want 4 more days of it.
Calamitas makes a plea for people to talk to him, and TWM is the only one who responds. Also, TWM is basically just saying "It's okay, just keep lurking."
Basically, Calamitas and TWM seemed to notice each other more than others did. I know it's not terribly useful info, but I feel like it's something. I still find TWM to be scummy, so Vote: The_Wine_Merchant for now.
-
I strongly think Cuzz is town. Clearly this means Faust is scummy for suspecting Cuzz.
Vote: Faust
please don't question my obvious softclaim it's anti-town to not let everyone softclaim in entirely unverifiable ways that scum could easily abuse and anyone who disagrees with this meta is clearly scummy.
Also I'm going to arbitrarily declare that other people are towny at various points please don't question this i just like power and control.
I like you too.
-
To clarify: The vote on Faust was not in any way satirical, though it's not a particularly vested vote. Strongly identifying seemingly random people as town without any evidence of it being PR related (as it was his style d1 too) is scum tactics.
Strongly identifying seemingly random plays as scum tactics without any evidence of it is scum tactics.
-
Not at all surprised Calamitas was scum, though. If he had done anything yesterday I probably would have voted him.
What's that supposed to mean?
-
Yeah I agree with the consensus about mcmc being town.
It's hardly a consensus of 2 people are voting for him...
-
Also this is a bad vote and I'm not sure you've been paying attention to anything I've done all game if this is enough for you to vote for me.
What have you done this game that you think shows that you are town?
-
I was happy with my vote on Andrew yesterday and I'm glad someone else will join me.
Vote: Andrew
You've seen me as scum. How is my play here similar to my scum games?
AndrewisTOWN
Not that sure actually. I mostly just wanted to write that.
-
I didn't pick up anything alignment-indicative from the way he responded. If his death came from a third-faction shot hoping to hit scum, I think it's a pretty lucky kill. Why wouldn't they go after someone who's more likely to be a PR?
This is a scummy post. Apparently Space has thought a fair bit about who is and isn't likely to be a PR.
-
wow, the night was quite cool. But I really do wonder what stays behing both kills, they are quite weird
Why do you think the gkrieg kill is weird? It seems pretty standard to me.
-
To clarify: The vote on Faust was not in any way satirical, though it's not a particularly vested vote. Strongly identifying seemingly random people as town without any evidence of it being PR related (as it was his style d1 too) is scum tactics.
Strongly identifying seemingly random plays as scum tactics without any evidence of it is scum tactics.
Yet unfortunately we don't appear to share a scum QT.. must be a mistake on Robz's part.
I'm just going off my personal experiences here. I tend to ID a bunch of townies as town when I'm scum, it's so easy to do and only backfires occasionally.
Then again I also try and bus all my teammates so I can win for our faction as the last one alive, in truly heroic fashion. And you don't appear to do that, but maybe you have and I just don't know yet.
PPE: I agree with you that SA post is confusingly scummy, why isn't Gkrieg likely to be a PR?
-
Basically, Calamitas and TWM seemed to notice each other more than others did. I know it's not terribly useful info, but I feel like it's something. I still find TWM to be scummy, so Vote: The_Wine_Merchant for now.
I dunno. You point at two interactions, which is definitely more than average, but there are other people that Calamitas interacted with more. The first is just Calamitas clutching to setup and PR discussions (as usual), and for the second post, TWMs post is the post post after Calamitas asks that, so it's kinda natural that he would respond. Both these things seem very weak evidence to me and this looks more like confirmation bias.
-
PPE: I agree with you that SA post is confusingly scummy, why isn't Gkrieg likely to be a PR?
Oh, he was talking about Calamitas. Sorry, I snipped that part of the post.
-
Dammit. They. Sorry :(
-
wow, the night was quite cool. But I really do wonder what stays behing both kills, they are quite weird
Why do you think the gkrieg kill is weird? It seems pretty standard to me.
I thought gkrieg is kinda scummy. There were more townie people, like Cuzz or O, or Galzria, or you for that matter. This actually pings me that one of the most townie-looking persons is scum.
PPE: 2
-
To clarify: The vote on Faust was not in any way satirical, though it's not a particularly vested vote. Strongly identifying seemingly random people as town without any evidence of it being PR related (as it was his style d1 too) is scum tactics.
Strongly identifying seemingly random plays as scum tactics without any evidence of it is scum tactics.
Yet unfortunately we don't appear to share a scum QT.. must be a mistake on Robz's part.
I'm just going off my personal experiences here. I tend to ID a bunch of townies as town when I'm scum, it's so easy to do and only backfires occasionally.
Then again I also try and bus all my teammates so I can win for our faction as the last one alive, in truly heroic fashion. And you don't appear to do that, but maybe you have and I just don't know yet.
Well I like the occasional bus where it's necessary, but I don't want to overdo it. I definitely got a partner lynched D1 before. But I like to have at least one partner alive as a backup. Somehow people start getting suspicious if I live through all the way to MyLo.
-
wow, the night was quite cool. But I really do wonder what stays behing both kills, they are quite weird
Why do you think the gkrieg kill is weird? It seems pretty standard to me.
I thought gkrieg is kinda scummy. There were more townie people, like Cuzz or O, or Galzria, or you for that matter. This actually pings me that one of the most townie-looking persons is scum.
PPE: 2
Well there are obvious reasons not to target a universal town read even if that read is correct. Watcher, Doctor etc. gkrieg was scummish and unlikely to be targeted by these, yet dangerous. Hence standard kill.
-
Is They Calamita's preferred pronoun or am I misreading Faust? Bio says male.
With the knowledge that it's about Calamitas that looks less scummy because I do think calamitas lurked hard enough to not feel like a PR.
But I want to vote: Space for that JR vote and for this post:
Cuzz is the one who looks the most partnerish, but you know, the evidence is thin.
I'm not sure Calamitas would do too much forced interaction, since his meta is to have even more of a hard time of D1 than I do. I specifically asked him a question to get him to say something, and because a conversation about claiming and evidence is something I can do much better than a conversation about reads.
I didn't pick up anything alignment-indicative from the way he responded. If his death came from a third-faction shot hoping to hit scum, I think it's a pretty lucky kill. Why wouldn't they go after someone who's more likely to be a PR?
I can perfectly see it coming from Calamitas' partner
is more compelling to me than poking Faust
Vote: Space
Also I think there are good justifications for not NKing Cuzz, Galzria, or me for scum frankly.
-
I don't get the argument? Wouldn't a partner of Calamatis' be careful not to say something like that?
-
Also I think some of the people townreading me/cuzz/galz are scum sheeping that narrative to later use LaLight's reasoning for a lynch. Frankly I thought that yesterday too, which is why I kept pointing out how odd it is that i'm being so universally townread.
-
Is They Calamita's preferred pronoun or am I misreading Faust? Bio says male.
No; SpaceAnemone goes by they. It was their post I talked about.
-
there is also Eevee whom I felt being scummy and it strengthened enough after he jumped off J R wagon, voted for me on a false note, after that he realised he confused things, unvoted me and went for Awaclus. This also is kinda scummy, correct me if I am wrong
PPE: 3
-
I don't get the argument? Wouldn't a partner of Calamatis' be careful not to say something like that?
levels and levels
-
Is They Calamita's preferred pronoun or am I misreading Faust? Bio says male.
No; SpaceAnemone goes by they. It was their post I talked about.
i've been very bad at reading comprehension recently.
@Lalight
you're wrong, going for Awaclus is not scummy. The wagon stuff was quite uncharacteristic though and scummy.
-
I don't get the argument? Wouldn't a partner of Calamatis' be careful not to say something like that?
levels and levels
Space is smart and concious enough to make this post being Calamitas' partner
-
Is They Calamita's preferred pronoun or am I misreading Faust? Bio says male.
No; SpaceAnemone goes by they. It was their post I talked about.
i've been very bad at reading comprehension recently.
@Lalight
you're wrong, going for Awaclus is not scummy. The wagon stuff was quite uncharacteristic though and scummy.
I am not saying voting for Awaclus was scummy. Mostly "going for another may be popular wagon instead of primary one" is scummy, it has nothing to do with Awaclus
-
sorry, was slipping banter in with agree with you.
-
agree-ing
-
sorry, was slipping banter in with agree with you.
I have never seen this word in my life. Cool one
-
Is They Calamita's preferred pronoun or am I misreading Faust? Bio says male.
I think you got the answer to this from faust et al now, but just for the avoidance of all doubt they/them is my preferred pronoun, with she/her as backup. Basically anything other than just giving into the awful patriarchal "default male" nonsense :-)
-
I didn't pick up anything alignment-indicative from the way he responded. If his death came from a third-faction shot hoping to hit scum, I think it's a pretty lucky kill. Why wouldn't they go after someone who's more likely to be a PR?
This is a scummy post. Apparently Space has thought a fair bit about who is and isn't likely to be a PR.
See this from back in D1:
I think who has PRs and doesn't is irrelevant to who is scum and town, considering we got the order before we were given alignments.
If we have a werewolf faction, then the second of them will have been drawn from a player who would otherwise have been a VT. It's quite an interesting mechanism from a design point of view, because it makes those of us more likely to be VTs (relative newbies other than people like LL who've read everything) fractionally more likely to be scum from the perspective of every other player who knows nothing about what happened with the bidding in slot 8.
(bolding added now)
I think the bias with Robz's ranking algorithm would have been be pretty clear to any new-ish people playing, so I didn't see the point of not saying anything about it.
-
I'm not a fan of the way Eevee abandoned the J Reggie wagon. Scum would definitely want the Reggie wagon to die after the claim.
-
O is also guilty of this.
-
I don't get the argument? Wouldn't a partner of Calamatis' be careful not to say something like that?
levels and levels
Space is smart and concious enough to make this post being Calamitas' partner
Hey, you (and maybe faust, but definitely you!) should know me well enough to understand that me addressing a point or two to Calamitas about something setuppy when he and I are both clearly struggling to engage with the wild reads party of D1 is not unusual in the slightest. I think if I'd been part of a scum faction, the smart thing would have been to keep my inferences quiet.
-
I don't get the argument? Wouldn't a partner of Calamatis' be careful not to say something like that?
levels and levels
Space is smart and concious enough to make this post being Calamitas' partner
Hey, you (and maybe faust, but definitely you!) should know me well enough to understand that me addressing a point or two to Calamitas about something setuppy when he and I are both clearly struggling to engage with the wild reads party of D1 is not unusual in the slightest. I think if I'd been part of a scum faction, the smart thing would have been to keep my inferences quiet.
And it's a good thing you know this because this means you can easily imitate it :)
-
I'm not a fan of the way Eevee abandoned the J Reggie wagon. Scum would definitely want the Reggie wagon to die after the claim.
hey I said this first
-
Also I think some of the people townreading me/cuzz/galz are scum sheeping that narrative to later use LaLight's reasoning for a lynch. Frankly I thought that yesterday too, which is why I kept pointing out how odd it is that i'm being so universally townread.
Huh? I'm asking because I'm townreading 2 of the 3 and would vote LaLight and want to know why that makes me scum.
-
sorry, was slipping banter in with agree with you.
I have never seen this word in my life. Cool one
It means joking around but with a "making fun of" connotation. Like if you are teasing someone but the intent is to have them tease you back, not to hurt anyone's feelings.
-
Basically, Calamitas and TWM seemed to notice each other more than others did. I know it's not terribly useful info, but I feel like it's something. I still find TWM to be scummy, so Vote: The_Wine_Merchant for now.
I dunno. You point at two interactions, which is definitely more than average, but there are other people that Calamitas interacted with more. The first is just Calamitas clutching to setup and PR discussions (as usual), and for the second post, TWMs post is the post post after Calamitas asks that, so it's kinda natural that he would respond. Both these things seem very weak evidence to me and this looks more like confirmation bias.
Ding!
Now the question is whether it is actually confirmation bias or sudgy trying to push a mislynch here.
-
I am not feeling the Andrew wagon. gkrieg was significantly different yesterday and I had a question mark next to him in my QT, so I see where Andrew's vote was coming from.
At the least I think we can say Andrew and ash aren't scum partners. As I think they would have argued against a gkrieg NK.
The vast vast majority of pairs of people in this game are not scum partners.
Yes. Thanks. I too can math. But I would say these two have a higher chance. And I think that is worth pointing out for the future. It might not help us decide whom to lynch now, but is still something worthwhile.
-
Also. I will be gone for deadline. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=3621.msg695338#msg695338)
-
His first post with his reasoning for voting TWM seem like town reasons that are trying to try. It isn't a good case (because really what could you breadcrumb in this setup), but it does look genuine.
I really don't see the case here.
Well seeing as I also agree completely with this I have to start town reading you more. I think sudgy has acted very much the way I expect sudgy to act with the amount of participation he has had.
I guess there wasn't a strong read on sudgy or I am misremembering someone else. But I think this was the post that made me think I wouldn't vote for sudgy given a stronger townread on mcmc at this point. That said, mcmc could you expound on this a bit? Because I felt as I went through sudgy's posts and combined with how he decided to reread Calamatis and conveniently only found the posts that already confirmed a scumread on me, I want to vote him.
-
I see the game is back on, have skimmed through but am insanely busy this week, at least until Thursday.
Will try to keep reading along as possible.
-
@twm, I will say I know part of the reason I was townreading sudgy is I remembered him reading me well in the past and when O asked about my playstyle sudgy chimed in saying he remembered that I normally look scummier as town and townier as scum, which I think is very true (hence the amount of "slips" townie or scummy I've had this game). This is probably less alingnment indicative than I took it at the time.
I made that post without rereading him nor do I have any more note about him besides the fact that I found him slightly town and gkrieg made a case for him being town. So it's definitely not a strong read.
-
I don't get the argument? Wouldn't a partner of Calamatis' be careful not to say something like that?
levels and levels
Space is smart and concious enough to make this post being Calamitas' partner
Hey, you (and maybe faust, but definitely you!) should know me well enough to understand that me addressing a point or two to Calamitas about something setuppy when he and I are both clearly struggling to engage with the wild reads party of D1 is not unusual in the slightest. I think if I'd been part of a scum faction, the smart thing would have been to keep my inferences quiet.
This is real scummy.
-
I am not feeling the Andrew wagon. gkrieg was significantly different yesterday and I had a question mark next to him in my QT, so I see where Andrew's vote was coming from.
At the least I think we can say Andrew and ash aren't scum partners. As I think they would have argued against a gkrieg NK.
The vast vast majority of pairs of people in this game are not scum partners.
Yes. Thanks. I too can math. But I would say these two have a higher chance. And I think that is worth pointing out for the future. It might not help us decide whom to lynch now, but is still something worthwhile.
You're saying without hard evidence that something with about a 4% chance of being true by random happenstance can be ruled out. I'm not sure that's all that worthwhile
-
Cuzz, you're here. Why are you not answering this:
Also this is a bad vote and I'm not sure you've been paying attention to anything I've done all game if this is enough for you to vote for me.
What have you done this game that you think shows that you are town?
I'm sure that would be more productive than arguing with TWM about how productive his post was.
-
Also this is a bad vote and I'm not sure you've been paying attention to anything I've done all game if this is enough for you to vote for me.
What have you done this game that you think shows that you are town?
I think I've been doing quite a bit (posting reads, encouraging conversation, giving reasons for all my votes) but that's not even what I meant. I just meant that I've said and done a large enough volume of stuff in this game that if I were scum you'd probably be able to find better evidence of it than whatever Andrew is using that he still hasn't explained.
ppe: speak of the devil
-
Also this is a bad vote and I'm not sure you've been paying attention to anything I've done all game if this is enough for you to vote for me.
What have you done this game that you think shows that you are town?
I think I've been doing quite a bit (posting reads, encouraging conversation, giving reasons for all my votes) but that's not even what I meant. I just meant that I've said and done a large enough volume of stuff in this game that if I were scum you'd probably be able to find better evidence of it than whatever Andrew is using that he still hasn't explained.
ppe: speak of the devil
But you aren't scum right? So it should come as no surprise to you that this is the first piece of evidence found. (Cue caught for the wrong reasons.)
-
Faust I'm curious why you think cuzz is scum based off of the very limited actions he had with cal compared to the rest of his posts versus the amount space interacted with cal compared to their overall posts.
I think my highest scumreads are lalight and space currently
-
sorry, was slipping banter in with agree with you.
I have never seen this word in my life. Cool one
It means joking around but with a "making fun of" connotation. Like if you are teasing someone but the intent is to have them tease you back, not to hurt anyone's feelings.
This type of interaction appears to be mostly fun to straight white men, and annoying to everyone else (yeah, I'm overgeneralizing, but only just...). In the UK at least, you'll get "laddish" types defending their overtly sexist/racist/homophobic outpourings as "just a bit of banter" or "bants".
Anyway, it's a word you might want to take care about using in some IRL contexts, lest you get taken the wrong way :-)
-
Also this is a bad vote and I'm not sure you've been paying attention to anything I've done all game if this is enough for you to vote for me.
What have you done this game that you think shows that you are town?
I think I've been doing quite a bit (posting reads, encouraging conversation, giving reasons for all my votes) but that's not even what I meant. I just meant that I've said and done a large enough volume of stuff in this game that if I were scum you'd probably be able to find better evidence of it than whatever Andrew is using that he still hasn't explained.
ppe: speak of the devil
But you aren't scum right? So it should come as no surprise to you that this is the first piece of evidence found. (Cue caught for the wrong reasons.)
Can you unpack that a little? I just woke up and am still working on my coffee.
But no, I am not scum, and for that reason there can in fact be no evidence.
-
I don't get the argument? Wouldn't a partner of Calamatis' be careful not to say something like that?
levels and levels
Space is smart and concious enough to make this post being Calamitas' partner
Hey, you (and maybe faust, but definitely you!) should know me well enough to understand that me addressing a point or two to Calamitas about something setuppy when he and I are both clearly struggling to engage with the wild reads party of D1 is not unusual in the slightest. I think if I'd been part of a scum faction, the smart thing would have been to keep my inferences quiet.
This is real scummy.
Hmm. I assert that it isn't, because I'm not scum. Why do you think I'd be more inclined to say something like that as scum than as town, especially given the context in which I said it?
-
[Case on Andrew]
I can sheep that.
Vote: Andrew
-
I feel like Cuzz had come out of the gate here on d2 very towny.
-
I think if I'd been part of a scum faction, the smart thing would have been to keep my inferences quiet.
This is real scummy.
Hmm. I assert that it isn't, because I'm not scum. Why do you think I'd be more inclined to say something like that as scum than as town, especially given the context in which I said it?
I just think generally scum is more cognizant of and vocal about "what they'd do as scum."
-
Also this is a bad vote and I'm not sure you've been paying attention to anything I've done all game if this is enough for you to vote for me.
What have you done this game that you think shows that you are town?
I think I've been doing quite a bit (posting reads, encouraging conversation, giving reasons for all my votes) but that's not even what I meant. I just meant that I've said and done a large enough volume of stuff in this game that if I were scum you'd probably be able to find better evidence of it than whatever Andrew is using that he still hasn't explained.
ppe: speak of the devil
But you aren't scum right? So it should come as no surprise to you that this is the first piece of evidence found. (Cue caught for the wrong reasons.)
Can you unpack that a little? I just woke up and am still working on my coffee.
But no, I am not scum, and for that reason there can in fact be no evidence.
Okay. My point here is as follows: You seem to imply that Andrew hasn't been paying attention, and that is why the only piece of evidence he has for you being scum is what he talked about there. But if you truly were town, then there would be no other evidence that he could have found had he been paying attention. The only way you could deduce from his vote that he has not paying attention is if you are scum, and know that there are other things out there you've done that are more scummy than this.
Thus, you are scum.
-
I feel like Cuzz had come out of the gate here on d2 very towny.
Can you say why?
-
ugh reads are much harder for me today than yesterday. I was just writing a post about how space is more likely to talk about what they would do as scum when they actually are scum because it is relevant in their mind. However I totally am more likely to talk about what I would do as scum as town. As scum I argue why what I did is townie, as town I want to explain why I wouldn't do that as scum all the time.
Ppe 4: so cuzz said what I was gonna say but I can't because it's not true for me.
Also @spaceanemone I think my explaination of banter was quite acceptable for the context of a mafia game, I would appreciate if you tried not to get too RSP about terminology in thread.
-
I'll do some wagon analysis/vote breakdowns when I get time later if no one beats me to it. Gotta get some work done for now.
-
Okay. My point here is as follows: You seem to imply that Andrew hasn't been paying attention, and that is why the only piece of evidence he has for you being scum is what he talked about there. But if you truly were town, then there would be no other evidence that he could have found had he been paying attention. The only way you could deduce from his vote that he has not paying attention is if you are scum, and know that there are other things out there you've done that are more scummy than this.
Thus, you are scum.
I am town. A proof by contrapositive thus shows there is some logical flaw in that paragraph that I'll hunt for properly sometime later.
-
I'm not a fan of the way Eevee abandoned the J Reggie wagon. Scum would definitely want the Reggie wagon to die after the claim.
hey I said this first
So it would have been townier to keep voting for the town player?
-
I'm not a fan of the way Eevee abandoned the J Reggie wagon. Scum would definitely want the Reggie wagon to die after the claim.
hey I said this first
So it would have been townier to keep voting for the town player?
Yes.
-
I'm not a fan of the way Eevee abandoned the J Reggie wagon. Scum would definitely want the Reggie wagon to die after the claim.
hey I said this first
So it would have been townier to keep voting for the town player?
The question is: did you know he's town back there?
-
Okay. My point here is as follows: You seem to imply that Andrew hasn't been paying attention, and that is why the only piece of evidence he has for you being scum is what he talked about there. But if you truly were town, then there would be no other evidence that he could have found had he been paying attention. The only way you could deduce from his vote that he has not paying attention is if you are scum, and know that there are other things out there you've done that are more scummy than this.
Thus, you are scum.
I am town. A proof by contrapositive thus shows there is some logical flaw in that paragraph that I'll hunt for properly sometime later.
Or maybe we have just shown our system of axioms to be inconsistent.
-
Okay. My point here is as follows: You seem to imply that Andrew hasn't been paying attention, and that is why the only piece of evidence he has for you being scum is what he talked about there. But if you truly were town, then there would be no other evidence that he could have found had he been paying attention. The only way you could deduce from his vote that he has not paying attention is if you are scum, and know that there are other things out there you've done that are more scummy than this.
Thus, you are scum.
I am town. A proof by contrapositive thus shows there is some logical flaw in that paragraph that I'll hunt for properly sometime later.
Oh I think we're just using "evidence" inconsistently:
i. Stuff used to justify one's perception that someone is scum.
ii. Stuff that actually implies that someone is scum.
By definition i, for example, we could say that people presented evidence of their cases on JReggie yesterday, but by definition ii this would not make sense since he was town. I think faust is only using ii and I think I've been inconsistently switching between them.
-
Banter was a word -- i'd go so far as to say a common one -- before toxic little jackasses in League of Legends or bigoted Brits approppriated the term. I'd say I first started commonly using both the term and the practice with my grandmother while playing Mahjong or Scrabble, when I was about 9. We are not all British and frankly many of us don't care to adhere to British customs or culture. That's all I'll say on that subject.
I'm not convinced that any of Faust's questions here are "productive" unless we have a strong desire to create circles. I'm not convinced Faust isn't trying to do that, though.
I'm very self conscious of how much I've basically been OMGUSing for Cuzz but I continue to not see much there, evidence wise or vague reads wise.
Unfortunately I think lurking has increased, not decreased, so far, even disregarding V/LA like Galzria.
I'm personally unwilling to lynch O, Cuzz, Awaclus..., TWM today. I can't think of anyone else at the moment that hasn't been scummy at least a few times or is a hard lurker.
I'm not a fan of the way Eevee abandoned the J Reggie wagon. Scum would definitely want the Reggie wagon to die after the claim.
hey I said this first
So it would have been townier to keep voting for the town player?
Yes.
What about my refusal to Vote after saying I would in that instance?
-
I don't get the argument? Wouldn't a partner of Calamatis' be careful not to say something like that?
levels and levels
Space is smart and concious enough to make this post being Calamitas' partner
Hey, you (and maybe faust, but definitely you!) should know me well enough to understand that me addressing a point or two to Calamitas about something setuppy when he and I are both clearly struggling to engage with the wild reads party of D1 is not unusual in the slightest. I think if I'd been part of a scum faction, the smart thing would have been to keep my inferences quiet.
This is real scummy.
Hmm. I assert that it isn't, because I'm not scum. Why do you think I'd be more inclined to say something like that as scum than as town, especially given the context in which I said it?
You have started the "if i was scum, i would have.." analysis multiple times this game, which seems like an uncharacteristic frame of mind to be in for a town player.
Vote: space even. Being scum being top of mind is scummy!
-
Also @spaceanemone I think my explaination of banter was quite acceptable for the context of a mafia game, I would appreciate if you tried not to get too RSP about terminology in thread.
I would rather have everyone be able to express their feelings in a civil manner. Follow-ups can then be moved to RSP.
-
Woah I just found out how to ctrl-find on an iPhone!!!! Mcmc's game is about to step it up a few notches. For those curious just open the page you want to find and then type what you want to find up in the URL search bar then scroll down below the suggested pages and there is an "on this page" button. Life has changed as we know it.
-
I don't get the argument? Wouldn't a partner of Calamatis' be careful not to say something like that?
levels and levels
Space is smart and concious enough to make this post being Calamitas' partner
Hey, you (and maybe faust, but definitely you!) should know me well enough to understand that me addressing a point or two to Calamitas about something setuppy when he and I are both clearly struggling to engage with the wild reads party of D1 is not unusual in the slightest. I think if I'd been part of a scum faction, the smart thing would have been to keep my inferences quiet.
This is real scummy.
Hmm. I assert that it isn't, because I'm not scum. Why do you think I'd be more inclined to say something like that as scum than as town, especially given the context in which I said it?
You have started the "if i was scum, i would have.." analysis multiple times this game, which seems like an uncharacteristic frame of mind to be in for a town player.
Vote: space even. Being scum being top of mind is scummy!
Did you always wagon this hard Eevee?
-
I'm not a fan of the way Eevee abandoned the J Reggie wagon. Scum would definitely want the Reggie wagon to die after the claim.
hey I said this first
So it would have been townier to keep voting for the town player?
The question is: did you know he's town back there?
To be fair to me, I didn't even proclaim him to
be town. People seemed very trigger happy, Jimmm had asked us to wait over the weekend, it wasn't so much that I thought Reggie to look towny than that I didn't think he was so scummy to warrant a premature lynch.
Now that we had such a fortunate night, having lynched a VT with no other claims day 1 doesn't seem like the worst thing ever, but I maintain that after the claim rushing to lynch reggie was maybe not necessary.
If that's scummy to you, so be it. Basically for me the end of day decision is a function of time left and how superior to the alternatives the lynch candidate is. Reggie didn't seem like a good lynch for that time for me.
-
Cuzz's attempts to discredit me and anyone who might suspect him by suggesting there's no evidence that he is scum is convincing me further that he is in fact scum.
-
I'm not a fan of the way Eevee abandoned the J Reggie wagon. Scum would definitely want the Reggie wagon to die after the claim.
hey I said this first
So it would have been townier to keep voting for the town player?
The question is: did you know he's town back there?
To be fair to me, I didn't even proclaim him to
be town. People seemed very trigger happy, Jimmm had asked us to wait over the weekend, it wasn't so much that I thought Reggie to look towny than that I didn't think he was so scummy to warrant a premature lynch.
Now that we had such a fortunate night, having lynched a VT with no other claims day 1 doesn't seem like the worst thing ever, but I maintain that after the claim rushing to lynch reggie was maybe not necessary.
If that's scummy to you, so be it. Basically for me the end of day decision is a function of time left and how superior to the alternatives the lynch candidate is. Reggie didn't seem like a good lynch for that time for me.
This is a surprisingly townie post. Okay, I believe you
-
What do you mean by "wagon this hard"? I spoke against all the bigger wagons yesterday, and even scummily abandoned the wagon of our lynched VT.
-
Cuzz's attempts to discredit me and anyone who might suspect him by suggesting there's no evidence that he is scum is convincing me further that he is in fact scum.
circles are very lame shapes.
What do you mean by "wagon this hard"? I spoke against all the bigger wagons yesterday, and even scummily abandoned the wagon of our lynched VT.
I'd say you quickly joined them without much reasoning before speaking against them, but I might be misremembering outside of J Reggie?
But abandoning wagons doesn't mean you didn't wagon in the first place
-
blegh I have absolutely no substantial reads whatsoever. I usually like to be more committal than this but I just keep poking people and seeing their responses and nothing stands out.
-
Vote Count 1.12
mcmcsalot (1): RoadRunner7671
J Reggie (10): 2.7128...., Dylan32, gkrieg13, LaLight, JaketheBaseballGod22, sudgy, iguanaiguana, SpaceAnemone, The_Wine_Merchant, mcmcsalot
The_Wine_Merchant (1): ashersky
O (1): Awaclus
gkrieg13 (1): AndrewisFTTW
RoadRunner7671 (1): Cuzz
LaLight (2): Galzria, pingpongsam
Galzria (2): J Reggie, faust
Awaclus (2): O, Eevee
Not Voting (2): Calamitas, Jimmmmm
With 23 alive it took just 10 to lynch.
Not super helpful
-
Also @spaceanemone I think my explaination of banter was quite acceptable for the context of a mafia game, I would appreciate if you tried not to get too RSP about terminology in thread.
Point taken. I was in the frame of mind of trying to help LL, as a non-native speaker, avoid using it in conversation inappropriately, rather than trying to make a political point. (LL and I have become friends through here to the point where he's visited me in the UK once already, so IRL English coaching seems quite relevant and natural to me).
I would rather have everyone be able to express their feelings in a civil manner. Follow-ups can then be moved to RSP.
Sure, sorry if I came across as too critical in the way I expanding on mcmc's definition; being uncivil was certainly not my intention.
-
i very much think this is a non issue and nobody did anything wrong
-
I quickly scanned the vote counts and what stood out is that the twm wagon, created by myself(town) and jreggie(conf!town) had some steam and was decimated by galzria's expert case on jreggie. A wagon he later abandoned and managed to not be on. I guess important to note if twm is scum galz looks pretty darn scummy.
-
I'm pretty sure I never voted for mcmc or gkrieg. I was trying to start awaclus or andrew wagons, but didn't get much support, and i joined the reggie train for a bit and then abandoned it after the claim.
-
Cuzz's attempts to discredit me and anyone who might suspect him by suggesting there's no evidence that he is scum is convincing me further that he is in fact scum.
circles are very lame shapes.
Pretty ironic considering your username.
-
I'm pretty sure I never voted for mcmc or gkrieg. I was trying to start awaclus or andrew wagons, but didn't get much support, and i joined the reggie train for a bit and then abandoned it after the claim.
*or tmw
-
i very much think this is a non issue and nobody did anything wrong
Totally agree and totally understood space's very harmeless intentions.
-
Cuzz's attempts to discredit me and anyone who might suspect him by suggesting there's no evidence that he is scum is convincing me further that he is in fact scum.
circles are very lame shapes.
Pretty ironic considering your username.
I have the credibility to make the claim.
-
I would rather have everyone be able to express their feelings in a civil manner. Follow-ups can then be moved to RSP.
Sure, sorry if I came across as too critical in the way I expanding on mcmc's definition; being uncivil was certainly not my intention.
I did not intend to imply that you were uncivil.
-
I'm pretty sure I never voted for mcmc or gkrieg. I was trying to start awaclus or andrew wagons, but didn't get much support, and i joined the reggie train for a bit and then abandoned it after the claim.
*or tmw
This would be more helpful if you did this while also having solid reads on gkrieg/myself/twm. Did you and if so can you quote? Because without those reads it feels more like you are saying "I avoided all the wagons except the one on a townie which I supported then ditched before it got hammered"
-
gkrieg is making sense, and being helpful.
I don't like lynching TWM.
Psa for those using my new find on iPhone...it doesn't hold your search when you open a quote in a new tab :(
Anyway this is what I first found from eevee talking about gkrieg and twm. He also mentioned a town read on me due to my post about people not discussing setup stuff.
The urge to call a galzria/eevee/twm scum team is rising.
-
I was against lynching anyone at the top of the post count charts in general.
I was about type something about how premature it is to call scum teams (dude, just try to get one right), but then I remembered I've said the same thing to mcmc many times before. Probably not an alignment-tell for him, although I don't remember his alignments from previous times (people are usually town, so probably town though).
I guess I'll bite anyways, why me+galzria+twm?
-
I'll bite
(http://assets.pokemon.com/assets/cms2/img/cards/web/HGSS3/HGSS3_EN_47.png)
-
Today's reads (without looking at player list or anything, off the head from the heart):
PPS - love that guy can't even question the potential for him not to be town
Eevee - town reading all day long
Glazria - super town to the rescue
Big mcmc - still town reading this one
E - see nothing other than he was first on Regina. Lots of people were on Regina, as in more than I think can be scum in this game.
O - looks towny enough, should keep him around for comic relief if nothing else
Awaclus - if O is town so is he, need somebody around here to piss people off, it's excellent stuff, need more Awaclus
Faust/cuzz - two people I want most to be town but fear may not be. Can't be arsed to vote them today though barring a cop result or something crazy like that.
Spaceace - nullicious, means they AR eprobably town won't lynch today
Jimmmmm - ready to see some Logan sleuthing, not lynching here
Sudgy - no idea if this is a silly town with low activity or a scum stooge but the activity around this one sets off the scum tingles. Somebody interacting about him is scum regardless of his own alignment.
TWM - I don't know but I think we get this most information in this flip from any other to date. Can always hope he's scum.
LaLight- the scumz, lynch plox
Andrew - teh scumz, lynch plox
Ashersky - The plan was for scum to sit quiet D1-? And let town off the,sleeves. The Calamitas flip spoiled the surprise. Ashersky is still holding fast to the plan.
Okay, now I look to see who I forgot was even playing the game anymore:
Dylan, Jake, iguana, RR.
All but RR are clearly playing along to ashersky's plan lynch the lot of them.
-
I was against lynching anyone at the top of the post count charts in general.
I was about type something about how premature it is to call scum teams (dude, just try to get one right), but then I remembered I've said the same thing to mcmc many times before. Probably not an alignment-tell for him, although I don't remember his alignments from previous times (people are usually town, so probably town though).
I guess I'll bite anyways, why me+galzria+twm?
A) your post said you didn't want to lynch two people, for gkrieg you gave a reason "making sense and being helpful" that player is now a confirmed townie and dead because of mafia. For twm you couldn't come up with anything other than "I don't like lynching him".
B) TWM was actually in pretty hot water, I now know two townies(myself/jreggie) who were advocating for his lynch. If Twm is town that's a great wagon for scum to join. But what happens is galzria storms the thread an eloquently convinces a huuuge number of players to jump over to jreggie (yourself included) decimating the twm wagon at the same time since jreggie was a big proponent of it.
C) Then because people want to "wait" both you and galz find ways to slither off the jreggie wagon so that when it eventually gets lynched you are nowhere on the wagon.
D) after voting twm most of the day jreggie had moved his vote to galz.
-
Isn't gkrieg a very common early kill, why are people surprised he got got? The stronger players tend to get nightkilled early because scum fears them, and here we have two scum shooting. If I had to have guessed yesterday, gkrieg would have been in my top three people most likely to die.
We are really marching in lockstep with PPS in this game, and I'm not sure what to make of it. Basically, he's been townreading me all game, and while correct and appreciated, I don't know if it's something I should feel comfortable with. Then again, I agree with his reads and general view of the game as well.
Inclined to think he is town, but it's not something I'd put past him doing intentionally as scum. I'm surprised no one else has been commenting on it, I know we are all very cognizant on everything revolving our own selves, but this seems like something worth analyzing. To be fair, I'm not sure if it's more him sheeping me (he certainly has more original thoughts and reads town than I have), or me sheeping him. It feels odd to be connected to someone like this, and I'm kind of just now realizing that it's happening.
-
Cuzz's attempts to discredit me and anyone who might suspect him by suggesting there's no evidence that he is scum is convincing me further that he is in fact scum.
Oh this is very cool, I wanna talk about this some more.
Can people weigh in on whether they actually buy Andrew's case on me? Knowing myself to be town I obviously find it unconvincing, but trying to put myself in the shoes of others I don't think it's very strong either, but I'd like to be corrected if I'm wrong on that.
If Andrew is town and truly thinks I'm scum I would expect a much stronger argument, with quotes and research and fleshed-out reasoning and stuff. This is either scum or bad town play.
Andrew, you could start by answering this question that you've ignored in favor of empty tunneling:
Just because I don't post about something (like reads) doesn't mean I don't have an opinion on it. I wasn't voting gkrieg because I was trying to get caught up, which I never did, and I didn't want to derphammer by accident as unlikely as that would be.
And since I did correctly interpret your sarcastic response to Jimm...
Vote: Cuzz
Andrew, can you explain why you think my response to Jimmmm is indicative of a scum alignment?
-
There are so many people I'd be willing to lynch today:
Andrew
Space
Dylan
iguana
RR
Jake
Jimmmmm
ash
sudgy
-
There are so many people I'd be willing to lynch today:
Andrew
Space
Dylan
iguana
RR
Jake
Jimmmmm
ash
sudgy
meant to put Eevee on here too actually. That's literally half the game and you're not all scum. Play stronger town games, people.
also, I wanna bump the following because I think it's important and it has yet to be addressed:
I want to know more about Jake and Jimmmm's votes for mcmc.
To both of you: What do you think about mcmc's mistake regarding the scum QT? Please read that carefully because I think it should be clearly accounted for if you truly believe he is scum.
-
There are so many people I'd be willing to lynch today:
Andrew
Space
Dylan
iguana
RR
Jake
Jimmmmm
ash
sudgy
This must be the most lazy would-lynch list I have ever seen. Is it anything but the lower end of the post count?
-
There are so many people I'd be willing to lynch today:
Andrew
Space
Dylan
iguana
RR
Jake
Jimmmmm
ash
sudgy
This must be the most lazy would-lynch list I have ever seen. Is it anything but the lower end of the post count?
I dunno. I haven't done a post count lately.
-
I feel like Cuzz had come out of the gate here on d2 very towny.
Can you say why?
1) Some from the EoD1 going into today, but his whole fascination with the "slip-that-wasn't-a-slip" comes across towny
2) He came out scum hunting rather than just randomly speculating about the kills. There was no "oh, that's interesting. I am so surprised about that kill" that can come from scum
3) confirmation bias
-
You assume I ignored it because it would support your cause to mislynch town. You also keep referring to my "case" on you and ask for people to comment on it. But here's the thing: I don't have a case! At least I didn't when I first voted and I don't have to have a case to think you're scum either. You reacting so strongly and constantly trying to draw attention to my vote on you has made you my number one scum read. I also like how you accuse me of tunneling when actually you're the one who keeps relentlessly pushing me.
To answer your question (which I missed), I just thought you were being snarky for little to no reason besides maybe trying to provoke Jimm. You can say that's towny any day of the week and I can't really argue with you, but I saw it as scummy.
-
Cuzz is the one who looks the most partnerish, but you know, the evidence is thin.
I honestly have no clue how you got this from what Calamitas posted.
-
@faust
I made it clear yesterday, though, that I subscribe to LaLL in the early game and I will not shy away from that. It would have caught Calamitas yesterday.
The people who were so much more in favor of lynching a non-lurker because the wagon analysis provides so much more information are not telling me anything super useful about JReggie's wagon right now (to be fair I believe JReggie was one of these people)
ppe:3
-
Also, PPS is town.
-
You assume I ignored it because it would support your cause to mislynch town. You also keep referring to my "case" on you and ask for people to comment on it. But here's the thing: I don't have a case! At least I didn't when I first voted and I don't have to have a case to think you're scum either. You reacting so strongly and constantly trying to draw attention to my vote on you has made you my number one scum read. I also like how you accuse me of tunneling when actually you're the one who keeps relentlessly pushing me.
To answer your question (which I missed), I just thought you were being snarky for little to no reason besides maybe trying to provoke Jimm. You can say that's towny any day of the week and I can't really argue with you, but I saw it as scummy.
This is helpful, thanks. You voted for me without a reason but also maybe because I was snarky and now I am your number one scumread but also you still don't have a case on me.
Also I can accuse you of tunneling me while also not denying that I am tunneling you. The difference is that I presented a case.
-
Cuzz is the one who looks the most partnerish, but you know, the evidence is thin.
I honestly have no clue how you got this from what Calamitas posted.
I rather got it from what Cuzz posted about Calamitas.
-
It would have caught Calamitas yesterday.
It hasn't though for some reason. In fact, I do not recall you voting for Calamitas at any point.
-
Cuzz is the one who looks the most partnerish, but you know, the evidence is thin.
I honestly have no clue how you got this from what Calamitas posted.
I agree, I thought space looked more partnery than cuzz did. To Fausts credit he did vote with a bit of "this is the best I got right now" attitude.
-
It would have caught Calamitas yesterday.
It hasn't though for some reason. In fact, I do not recall you voting for Calamitas at any point.
I didn't. But he was on my top 5 lynch targets list. Which iirc is part of the reason you're voting for me. I guess from your perspective that could look like a pretty soft bus, though, so I kinda get it.
-
Hey cuzz, I don't think other townies think andrew's case on you has any merit.
The difference is how "helpful" I feel pps/cuzz/2.7/faust are being compared to how galzria acted yesterday is one of the main reasons I have flipped my tune on galz from heavy town to kinda scummy. I feel like pps/cuzz/2.7/faust all have good thought out arguments about lots of different things that every once in awhile don't make perfect sense and every once in awhile are confusing. And I feel like galz has made much more specifically directed posts as though there is an agenda to his helpfulness.
-
Also I think if someone is a rolecop they should do that to Faust and then really think about their results if they do that and then probably claim and I don't want to talk about this anymore.
-
Mostly caught up in terms of reading everything. I'm going to walk to my local coffee shop and when I get back I'll sit down and start looking things over in more detail.
Mcmc - I like how you're thinking. I can't say much about my "timing" of starting the Reggie wagon in comparison to derailing a TWM one - that's just when I was on and what I saw. As far as the connection with Eevee - you're right and it bothers me too (I mentioned it d1 as standing out to me). If he's scum I'm going to look a hell of a lot like his partner.
Eevee - don't be scum? Kthnx.
Cuzz - I'm one of the people that wanted to look at the Reggie wagon d1. I'll be getting to that today.
-
Cuzz is the one who looks the most partnerish, but you know, the evidence is thin.
I honestly have no clue how you got this from what Calamitas posted.
I rather got it from what Cuzz posted about Calamitas.
I just read through Cuss's D1 posts, and I honestly have no clue how you drew your conclusions.
But really, what I find most interesting is how Andrew joined you on a fairly terrible case against Cuzz. I don't know exactly how it makes me feel other than the general sense of scumminess permeating that little wagon, and I don't necessarily know if that is scum!faust or scum!andrew. Right now I am leaning more on scum!andrew sheeping faust on a case that seems plausible ("because faust posted it and is a good mafia player obviously"), didn't really look into it, and liked the idea of lynching Cuzz.
PPE: I power through PPEs and don't even bother with them.
-
Cuzz is the one who looks the most partnerish, but you know, the evidence is thin.
I honestly have no clue how you got this from what Calamitas posted.
I rather got it from what Cuzz posted about Calamitas.
I just read through Cuss's D1 posts, and I honestly have no clue how you drew your conclusions.
But really, what I find most interesting is how Andrew joined you on a fairly terrible case against Cuzz. I don't know exactly how it makes me feel other than the general sense of scumminess permeating that little wagon, and I don't necessarily know if that is scum!faust or scum!andrew. Right now I am leaning more on scum!andrew sheeping faust on a case that seems plausible ("because faust posted it and is a good mafia player obviously"), didn't really look into it, and liked the idea of lynching Cuzz.
PPE: I power through PPEs and don't even bother with them.
Cna you show me a better case that has been made than the one I made on Cuzz?
-
Cuzz is the one who looks the most partnerish, but you know, the evidence is thin.
I honestly have no clue how you got this from what Calamitas posted.
I rather got it from what Cuzz posted about Calamitas.
I just read through Cuss's D1 posts, and I honestly have no clue how you drew your conclusions.
But really, what I find most interesting is how Andrew joined you on a fairly terrible case against Cuzz. I don't know exactly how it makes me feel other than the general sense of scumminess permeating that little wagon, and I don't necessarily know if that is scum!faust or scum!andrew. Right now I am leaning more on scum!andrew sheeping faust on a case that seems plausible ("because faust posted it and is a good mafia player obviously"), didn't really look into it, and liked the idea of lynching Cuzz.
PPE: I power through PPEs and don't even bother with them.
Cuzz*
Not Cuss. Sorry. Typing can be hard
-
I think if I'd been part of a scum faction, the smart thing would have been to keep my inferences quiet.
This is real scummy.
Hmm. I assert that it isn't, because I'm not scum. Why do you think I'd be more inclined to say something like that as scum than as town, especially given the context in which I said it?
I just think generally scum is more cognizant of and vocal about "what they'd do as scum."
I have been accused of doing this both times when I was town (and also when I was mafia). I think it has more to do with whether someone is more introspective or not. I agree that it cane be a sign, but I think in this context it is more likely to be pretty neutral.
-
Need to put things down that I am thinking. I can't seem to access my QT at the moment, so I am going to put this here even though they aren't fully fleshed out yet. So sorry for lack of explanations behind them.
I am getting scummy vibes from 2.7 and Eevee. I want to go back and reread both of them and figure out why. faust feels very town. Still think O is town.
-
You assume I ignored it because it would support your cause to mislynch town. You also keep referring to my "case" on you and ask for people to comment on it. But here's the thing: I don't have a case! At least I didn't when I first voted and I don't have to have a case to think you're scum either. You reacting so strongly and constantly trying to draw attention to my vote on you has made you my number one scum read. I also like how you accuse me of tunneling when actually you're the one who keeps relentlessly pushing me.
To answer your question (which I missed), I just thought you were being snarky for little to no reason besides maybe trying to provoke Jimm. You can say that's towny any day of the week and I can't really argue with you, but I saw it as scummy.
This is helpful, thanks. You voted for me without a reason but also maybe because I was snarky and now I am your number one scumread but also you still don't have a case on me.
Also I can accuse you of tunneling me while also not denying that I am tunneling you. The difference is that I presented a case.
I didn't say I voted for you without a reason. But hey, read what you want to read and ignore what you don't.
-
I was against lynching anyone at the top of the post count charts in general.
I was about type something about how premature it is to call scum teams (dude, just try to get one right), but then I remembered I've said the same thing to mcmc many times before. Probably not an alignment-tell for him, although I don't remember his alignments from previous times (people are usually town, so probably town though).
I guess I'll bite anyways, why me+galzria+twm?
B) TWM was actually in pretty hot water, I now know two townies(myself/jreggie) who were advocating for his lynch. If Twm is town that's a great wagon for scum to join. But what happens is galzria storms the thread an eloquently convinces a huuuge number of players to jump over to jreggie (yourself included) decimating the twm wagon at the same time since jreggie was a big proponent of it.
This is a good point that I want to look into. The "great wagon for scum to join" part. I obviously don't agree with the me-Galz/Eevee team part. I often feel that I am a bit of a scumbait when I am town.
-
Cuzz is the one who looks the most partnerish, but you know, the evidence is thin.
I honestly have no clue how you got this from what Calamitas posted.
I rather got it from what Cuzz posted about Calamitas.
I just read through Cuss's D1 posts, and I honestly have no clue how you drew your conclusions.
But really, what I find most interesting is how Andrew joined you on a fairly terrible case against Cuzz. I don't know exactly how it makes me feel other than the general sense of scumminess permeating that little wagon, and I don't necessarily know if that is scum!faust or scum!andrew. Right now I am leaning more on scum!andrew sheeping faust on a case that seems plausible ("because faust posted it and is a good mafia player obviously"), didn't really look into it, and liked the idea of lynching Cuzz.
PPE: I power through PPEs and don't even bother with them.
Cna you show me a better case that has been made than the one I made on Cuzz?
Cuzz's case on Andrew is better than the one you made on Cuzz.
Let me review your case on Cuzz.
1) Cuzz points out that Calamitas is lurking
(and around the same time talks about how it seems as if f.ds has a "don't lynch lurkers" policy. Clearly disagreeing and totally willing to lynch Calamitas)
2) Calamitas is in Cuzz's "would lynch" group
(you know, because Calamitas is lurking and Cuzz has no problem lynching lurkers.)
Yeah. There isn't actually a case.
-
OK.
J Reggie starts the voting on me.
Ash joins - no explanation
mcmc joins - no explanation
Dylan joins - no explanation
sudgy joins. He is the first to provide something of an explanation, FYI. faust has already shown how the reasoning looks fabricated.
2.7 joins - fun place to join
mcmc comes back on
sudgy comes back on voting for me for unvoting J Reggie, which was clearly me being factitious about Jimmmm's request to not end the day early.
And then that is it for Day 1. sudgy votes me again for supposed Calamatis interactions. Again, he didn't actually reread Calam or at least didn't post those, he just found ones that pertained to me and only analyzed those.
vote: sudgy I think both of his votes on me today are reflective of scum falling for me as bait lynch with fabricated or forced reasons.
And I could also look at Dylan/2.7. Ash is an enigma and I see mcmc as town.
-
Hey Andrew what do you think about my theories about galz/eevee/twm?
-
Cuzz is the one who looks the most partnerish, but you know, the evidence is thin.
I honestly have no clue how you got this from what Calamitas posted.
I rather got it from what Cuzz posted about Calamitas.
I just read through Cuss's D1 posts, and I honestly have no clue how you drew your conclusions.
But really, what I find most interesting is how Andrew joined you on a fairly terrible case against Cuzz. I don't know exactly how it makes me feel other than the general sense of scumminess permeating that little wagon, and I don't necessarily know if that is scum!faust or scum!andrew. Right now I am leaning more on scum!andrew sheeping faust on a case that seems plausible ("because faust posted it and is a good mafia player obviously"), didn't really look into it, and liked the idea of lynching Cuzz.
PPE: I power through PPEs and don't even bother with them.
Cna you show me a better case that has been made than the one I made on Cuzz?
Cuzz's case on Andrew is better than the one you made on Cuzz.
Let me review your case on Cuzz.
1) Cuzz points out that Calamitas is lurking
(and around the same time talks about how it seems as if f.ds has a "don't lynch lurkers" policy. Clearly disagreeing and totally willing to lynch Calamitas)
2) Calamitas is in Cuzz's "would lynch" group
(you know, because Calamitas is lurking and Cuzz has no problem lynching lurkers.)
Yeah. There isn't actually a case.
That's a terrible case
-
Twm what do you think about Andrew?
-
Twm what do you think about Andrew?
Also Unvote
-
I was against lynching anyone at the top of the post count charts in general.
I was about type something about how premature it is to call scum teams (dude, just try to get one right), but then I remembered I've said the same thing to mcmc many times before. Probably not an alignment-tell for him, although I don't remember his alignments from previous times (people are usually town, so probably town though).
I guess I'll bite anyways, why me+galzria+twm?
A) your post said you didn't want to lynch two people, for gkrieg you gave a reason "making sense and being helpful" that player is now a confirmed townie and dead because of mafia. For twm you couldn't come up with anything other than "I don't like lynching him".
B) TWM was actually in pretty hot water, I now know two townies(myself/jreggie) who were advocating for his lynch. If Twm is town that's a great wagon for scum to join. But what happens is galzria storms the thread an eloquently convinces a huuuge number of players to jump over to jreggie (yourself included) decimating the twm wagon at the same time since jreggie was a big proponent of it.
C) Then because people want to "wait" both you and galz find ways to slither off the jreggie wagon so that when it eventually gets lynched you are nowhere on the wagon.
D) after voting twm most of the day jreggie had moved his vote to galz.
I like what you are doing looking at the transition between the TWM wagon and J Reggie wagon. I have thoughts but don't have time to write them down right now.
-
My thoughts on Andrew a few hours ago. I don't think much has changed.
I am not feeling the Andrew wagon. gkrieg was significantly different yesterday and I had a question mark next to him in my QT, so I see where Andrew's vote was coming from.
At the least I think we can say Andrew and ash aren't scum partners. As I think they would have argued against a gkrieg NK.
Cuzz seemed to zero in on the last paragraph, which is really the most insignificant part. Mostly I don't see him as scummy for tunneling gkrieg. If you are behind sometimes tunneling, I think, can be an unintended side-effect of that.
-
Vote Count 2.2
Cuzz (2): faust, AndrewisFTTW
mcmcsalot (1): Jimmmmm
sudgy (1): The_Wine_Merchant
O (1): Awaclus
AndrewisFTTW (3): Cuzz, pingpongsam, 2.71828....
SpaceAnemone (3): LaLight, O, Eevee
The_Wine_Merchant (1): sudgy
Not Voting (8): RoadRunner7671, Dylan32, iguanaiguana, SpaceAnemone, mcmcsalot, ashersky, Galzria, JaketheBaseballGod22
With 20 alive it takes just 10 to lynch. Day 2 ends on Sunday, May 28th, at 11:00 AM Forum Time.
-
To give a further example of sudgy's bad reasoning, he found one post from me that had to do with Calamatis. But when you look at that specific post you immediately see that my responses is immediately after Calamatis' post. If I am town, I don't know Calamatis' alignment and want to be helpful to anyone in the town because odds are that they are town as well.
Furthermore, finding me scummy for one post interacting with someone is absurd, especially for a person of my vote count #. Let's look at the player list and see how many other players I interacted with yesterday.
Mafia 100: Forum All-Stars -- DAY 2
« on: May 01, 2017, 02:34:47 pm »
ReplyQuote
Welcome to Mafia 100: Forum All-Stars
It was five years ago this very month that a group of f.ds regulars decided to play a game of online mafia. Ninety-nine games later, the Forum Games community is still going strong, featuring an ever-evolving cast of dedicated players.
Quote from: jotheonah on November 10, 2012, 05:55:15 pm
Who knew that people who came together because of a shared love of playing games would also love playing games?
Remember the epic scum wins and hilarious town losses. Recall the mislynches, busses, and OMGUSes. Toast the fake claims--the creative and the awful. Join me, Robz888, in a celebration of all things mafia, and sign-up for our hundredth regular game.
This will be a semi-invented, open game modeled on faust's Pick Your Power X/Y/Z setup for Mafia 40. Exact details--a list of all available PRs, role PMs, etc.--will be provided after the game has filled. The setup will be tweaked depending on the number of people playing. It's currently designed for about 18 people, but since this is a special occasion I will adjust it in order to accommodate up to 20 (ish) players. The game will not begin until either Mafia 98 or 99 are finished, or almost finished, unless otherwise agreed to by all the players.
Players List
1. JReggie - interacted with. vote for duh.
2. Galzria - interacted with. talked about LaLight
3. gkrieg - interacted with. talked about claiming
4. The_Wine_Merchant - myself
5. Calamitas - see above
6. Eevee - multiple conversations
7. faust - agreed with
8. LaLight - defended
9. Awaclus - voted for initially
10. SpaceAnemone - talked about LaLight
11. 2.71828..... - was suspicious of
12.pingpongsam - voted for
13. Dylan32 - talked about dylan
14. RoadRunner - maybe actually nothing here?
15.iguanaiguana - joked with
16. Jimmmmm - talked about extending day
17. O - town read
18. AndrewisFTTW - nothing here?
19. Cuzz - talked about O.
20. ashersky - voted for me.
21. JaketheBaseballGod22 - talked about m99.
22. mcmcsalot - voted for/by
23. sudgy - voted for
So out of 21 other players I didn't have interactions with RR and Andrew. I think that would be similar for most other players that have about the same number of posts as me.
-
I haven't had time to read the last couple pages and have to go, but I'll say something from earlier:
Basically, Calamitas and TWM seemed to notice each other more than others did. I know it's not terribly useful info, but I feel like it's something. I still find TWM to be scummy, so Vote: The_Wine_Merchant for now.
I dunno. You point at two interactions, which is definitely more than average, but there are other people that Calamitas interacted with more. The first is just Calamitas clutching to setup and PR discussions (as usual), and for the second post, TWMs post is the post post after Calamitas asks that, so it's kinda natural that he would respond. Both these things seem very weak evidence to me and this looks more like confirmation bias.
I said it was combined with my earlier scumread.
he decided to reread Calamatis and conveniently only found the posts that already confirmed a scumread on me, I want to vote him.
And, in reply to both of the quotes, please show other posts that Calamitas had actual interesting interactions with others. It mostly was setup theory which anybody can fake, and asking about the J Reggie wagon (which anybody could do). These were the only two interesting things I saw him post.
-
Cuzz is the one who looks the most partnerish, but you know, the evidence is thin.
I honestly have no clue how you got this from what Calamitas posted.
I rather got it from what Cuzz posted about Calamitas.
I just read through Cuss's D1 posts, and I honestly have no clue how you drew your conclusions.
But really, what I find most interesting is how Andrew joined you on a fairly terrible case against Cuzz. I don't know exactly how it makes me feel other than the general sense of scumminess permeating that little wagon, and I don't necessarily know if that is scum!faust or scum!andrew. Right now I am leaning more on scum!andrew sheeping faust on a case that seems plausible ("because faust posted it and is a good mafia player obviously"), didn't really look into it, and liked the idea of lynching Cuzz.
PPE: I power through PPEs and don't even bother with them.
Just because I'm voting the same person faust is doesn't mean I'm sheeping faust.
-
I think if I'd been part of a scum faction, the smart thing would have been to keep my inferences quiet.
This is real scummy.
Hmm. I assert that it isn't, because I'm not scum. Why do you think I'd be more inclined to say something like that as scum than as town, especially given the context in which I said it?
I just think generally scum is more cognizant of and vocal about "what they'd do as scum."
I have been accused of doing this both times when I was town (and also when I was mafia). I think it has more to do with whether someone is more introspective or not. I agree that it cane be a sign, but I think in this context it is more likely to be pretty neutral.
^I agree with this and am wary of anyone who puts forth such an argument about something like this. These things aren't 100%.
-
Need to put things down that I am thinking. I can't seem to access my QT at the moment, so I am going to put this here even though they aren't fully fleshed out yet. So sorry for lack of explanations behind them.
I am getting scummy vibes from 2.7 and Eevee. I want to go back and reread both of them and figure out why. faust feels very town. Still think O is town.
I'm feeling the scums from 2.7 too.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say I think I'm somewhat kinda maybe a little decent at reading TWM and I think maybe he might possibly sorta be town? Maybe?
-
Hey Andrew what do you think about my theories about galz/eevee/twm?
Glad you asked! Here's what you put down for reference:
I was against lynching anyone at the top of the post count charts in general.
I was about type something about how premature it is to call scum teams (dude, just try to get one right), but then I remembered I've said the same thing to mcmc many times before. Probably not an alignment-tell for him, although I don't remember his alignments from previous times (people are usually town, so probably town though).
I guess I'll bite anyways, why me+galzria+twm?
A) your post said you didn't want to lynch two people, for gkrieg you gave a reason "making sense and being helpful" that player is now a confirmed townie and dead because of mafia. For twm you couldn't come up with anything other than "I don't like lynching him".
B) TWM was actually in pretty hot water, I now know two townies(myself/jreggie) who were advocating for his lynch. If Twm is town that's a great wagon for scum to join. But what happens is galzria storms the thread an eloquently convinces a huuuge number of players to jump over to jreggie (yourself included) decimating the twm wagon at the same time since jreggie was a big proponent of it.
C) Then because people want to "wait" both you and galz find ways to slither off the jreggie wagon so that when it eventually gets lynched you are nowhere on the wagon.
D) after voting twm most of the day jreggie had moved his vote to galz.
A) I don't think this is much of a tell.
B) Yeah I can see where you're coming from with this but I think we need a flip from one of them before condemning the other.
C) Again I don't think this is much of a tell. I don't think scum is ever all that concerned about whether they're on or off a town wagon at the end of the day. Maybe that's just me though.
D) I personally don't ever put much stock into a dead towny's last vote. JR could've been as clueless as anyone.
I could maybe be convinced to vote galz, not so much TWM though.
-
OK.
J Reggie starts the voting on me.
Ash joins - no explanation
mcmc joins - no explanation
Dylan joins - no explanation
sudgy joins. He is the first to provide something of an explanation, FYI. faust has already shown how the reasoning looks fabricated.
2.7 joins - fun place to join
mcmc comes back on
sudgy comes back on voting for me for unvoting J Reggie, which was clearly me being factitious about Jimmmm's request to not end the day early.
And then that is it for Day 1. sudgy votes me again for supposed Calamatis interactions. Again, he didn't actually reread Calam or at least didn't post those, he just found ones that pertained to me and only analyzed those.
vote: sudgy I think both of his votes on me today are reflective of scum falling for me as bait lynch with fabricated or forced reasons.
And I could also look at Dylan/2.7. Ash is an enigma and I see mcmc as town.
Forgot Dylan was in this game. Jeez.
I'm not sure what you're getting at exactly about sudgy. Bait lynch? Can you explain further please?
-
Wait! You have another post, hold on!
-
Can you provide some quotes or quote numbers TWM?
-
My thoughts on Andrew a few hours ago. I don't think much has changed.
I am not feeling the Andrew wagon. gkrieg was significantly different yesterday and I had a question mark next to him in my QT, so I see where Andrew's vote was coming from.
At the least I think we can say Andrew and ash aren't scum partners. As I think they would have argued against a gkrieg NK.
So I ask twm about andrew and he says check what I said a few hours ago which was basically "I don't find andrew scummy for voting a townie" and "I think andrew would have wanted a different nk due to that vote" so your thoughts on andrew revolve around one single thing. And that thing happened a long time ago Day 1.
Followed by:
Need to put things down that I am thinking. I can't seem to access my QT at the moment, so I am going to put this here even though they aren't fully fleshed out yet. So sorry for lack of explanations behind them.
I am getting scummy vibes from 2.7 and Eevee. I want to go back and reread both of them and figure out why. faust feels very town. Still think O is town.
I'm feeling the scums from 2.7 too.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say I think I'm somewhat kinda maybe a little decent at reading TWM and I think maybe he might possibly sorta be town? Maybe?
Andrew giving the hedgiest of townreads on twm without really providing a reason even after I asked him about twm and his thought about galz being a moving force away from twm onto jreggie.
Add andrew to my scumteam, my preferred lynch order is andrew>twm>galz>eevee.
We can deal with lurky serial killer ashersky later.(just a hunch)
Ppe: andrew answered me, will respond to that in the next post. Hint it's also super scummy.
-
Hey Andrew what do you think about my theories about galz/eevee/twm?
Glad you asked! Here's what you put down for reference:
A) youreevee post said you didn't want to lynch two people, for gkrieg you gave a reason "making sense and being helpful" that player is now a confirmed townie and dead because of mafia. For twm you couldn't come up with anything other than "I don't like lynching him".
B) TWM was actually in pretty hot water, I now know two townies(myself/jreggie) who were advocating for his lynch. If Twm is town that's a great wagon for scum to join. But what happens is galzria storms the thread an eloquently convinces a huuuge number of players to jump over to jreggie (yourself included) decimating the twm wagon at the same time since jreggie was a big proponent of it.
C) Then because people want to "wait" both you and galz find ways to slither off the jreggie wagon so that when it eventually gets lynched you are nowhere on the wagon.
D) after voting twm most of the day jreggie had moved his vote to galz.
A) I don't think this is much of a tell.
B) Yeah I can see where you're coming from with this but I think we need a flip from one of them before condemning the other.
C) Again I don't think this is much of a tell. I don't think scum is ever all that concerned about whether they're on or off a town wagon at the end of the day. Maybe that's just me though.
D) I personally don't ever put much stock into a dead towny's last vote. JR could've been as clueless as anyone.
I could maybe be convinced to vote galz, not so much TWM though.
So your answers are basically all that you don't find any of these things to be alignment indicative(which is convenient because then you don't have to make a read) that you kinda see what I'm getting at about someone being the driving force from one wagon to the other but you can't make any conclusions about it now. And finally you say you could maybe be convinced to vote veteran eloquent and frequently town read galz but not so much under fire possibly getting lynched two days in a row twm. This is so gosh darn partnery I'm losing my mind.
-
Cuzz is the one who looks the most partnerish, but you know, the evidence is thin.
I honestly have no clue how you got this from what Calamitas posted.
I rather got it from what Cuzz posted about Calamitas.
I just read through Cuss's D1 posts, and I honestly have no clue how you drew your conclusions.
But really, what I find most interesting is how Andrew joined you on a fairly terrible case against Cuzz. I don't know exactly how it makes me feel other than the general sense of scumminess permeating that little wagon, and I don't necessarily know if that is scum!faust or scum!andrew. Right now I am leaning more on scum!andrew sheeping faust on a case that seems plausible ("because faust posted it and is a good mafia player obviously"), didn't really look into it, and liked the idea of lynching Cuzz.
PPE: I power through PPEs and don't even bother with them.
Cna you show me a better case that has been made than the one I made on Cuzz?
Cuzz's case on Andrew is better than the one you made on Cuzz.
Let me review your case on Cuzz.
1) Cuzz points out that Calamitas is lurking
(and around the same time talks about how it seems as if f.ds has a "don't lynch lurkers" policy. Clearly disagreeing and totally willing to lynch Calamitas)
2) Calamitas is in Cuzz's "would lynch" group
(you know, because Calamitas is lurking and Cuzz has no problem lynching lurkers.)
Yeah. There isn't actually a case.
You're right, and it's not the case I'm currently making. That is that Cuzz' comments towards Andrew expose that he is analyzing things from a scum mindset.
-
I haven't had time to read the last couple pages and have to go, but I'll say something from earlier:
Basically, Calamitas and TWM seemed to notice each other more than others did. I know it's not terribly useful info, but I feel like it's something. I still find TWM to be scummy, so Vote: The_Wine_Merchant for now.
I dunno. You point at two interactions, which is definitely more than average, but there are other people that Calamitas interacted with more. The first is just Calamitas clutching to setup and PR discussions (as usual), and for the second post, TWMs post is the post post after Calamitas asks that, so it's kinda natural that he would respond. Both these things seem very weak evidence to me and this looks more like confirmation bias.
I said it was combined with my earlier scumread.
I know. It's why I used the term "confirmation bias".
-
What can I say? I've got a townread on TWM. The only "hedginess" I guess you could glean from that was I also thought gkrieg was scum and I was wrong, so maybe I'm wrong about TWM too. You say my answers are "convenient" because then I don't have to make a read. So if I answered all four questions by saying "yes, this 100% means TWM and galz are partners" you would think I'm town?
I don't think pointing at someone and saying "they're scummy because they don't have fully formed reads" is really helpful. And besides, I do have some strong reads so to assume I don't is a little strange.
-
Cuzz is the one who looks the most partnerish, but you know, the evidence is thin.
I honestly have no clue how you got this from what Calamitas posted.
I rather got it from what Cuzz posted about Calamitas.
I just read through Cuss's D1 posts, and I honestly have no clue how you drew your conclusions.
But really, what I find most interesting is how Andrew joined you on a fairly terrible case against Cuzz. I don't know exactly how it makes me feel other than the general sense of scumminess permeating that little wagon, and I don't necessarily know if that is scum!faust or scum!andrew. Right now I am leaning more on scum!andrew sheeping faust on a case that seems plausible ("because faust posted it and is a good mafia player obviously"), didn't really look into it, and liked the idea of lynching Cuzz.
PPE: I power through PPEs and don't even bother with them.
Cna you show me a better case that has been made than the one I made on Cuzz?
Cuzz's case on Andrew is better than the one you made on Cuzz.
Let me review your case on Cuzz.
1) Cuzz points out that Calamitas is lurking
(and around the same time talks about how it seems as if f.ds has a "don't lynch lurkers" policy. Clearly disagreeing and totally willing to lynch Calamitas)
2) Calamitas is in Cuzz's "would lynch" group
(you know, because Calamitas is lurking and Cuzz has no problem lynching lurkers.)
Yeah. There isn't actually a case.
You're right, and it's not the case I'm currently making. That is that Cuzz' comments towards Andrew expose that he is analyzing things from a scum mindset.
I agree, that's what it looks like to me.
-
God I really don't like what mcmc is doing here, and I have my doubts that this would come from town!mcmc.
-
God I really don't like what mcmc is doing here, and I have my doubts that this would come from town!mcmc.
What? Posing questions, specifically asking me to answer them and then making me his top scumread for not answering them exactly as he would've liked? I don't like it either but I think it could be a town!mcmc move.
-
God I really don't like what mcmc is doing here, and I have my doubts that this would come from town!mcmc.
What? Posing questions, specifically asking me to answer them and then making me his top scumread for not answering them exactly as he would've liked? I don't like it either but I think it could be a town!mcmc move.
I mean more the scum-team paranoia and trying to pin down every last scum including the SK on D2.
-
What can I say? I've got a townread on TWM. The only "hedginess" I guess you could glean from that was I also thought gkrieg was scum and I was wrong, so maybe I'm wrong about TWM too. You say my answers are "convenient" because then I don't have to make a read. So if I answered all four questions by saying "yes, this 100% means TWM and galz are partners" you would think I'm town?
I don't think pointing at someone and saying "they're scummy because they don't have fully formed reads" is really helpful. And besides, I do have some strong reads so to assume I don't is a little strange.
Andrew you disagreeing with me isn't the problem it's that your answers don't have any depth or analysis within them whatsoever. You've got a town read on twm but you can't say why. You just say I kinda maybe sorta think he's town. And you just say I don't think any of those things are alignment indivative which means you don't have to disagree and provide a reason why twm is actually towny.
-
God I really don't like what mcmc is doing here, and I have my doubts that this would come from town!mcmc.
What? Posing questions, specifically asking me to answer them and then making me his top scumread for not answering them exactly as he would've liked? I don't like it either but I think it could be a town!mcmc move.
I mean more the scum-team paranoia and trying to pin down every last scum including the SK on D2.
Sorry I'm town I'm having fun, my brother is the mod I want him cracking up or having his mind blown as I guess the scum team. I have no reasons for thinking ash is the sk other than he's weirdly lurky and un-impactful for ash. I don't want us to waste any time discussing who the sk is but it popped on my head that ash has been weird as I was writing my post.
-
God I really don't like what mcmc is doing here, and I have my doubts that this would come from town!mcmc.
So you have no problems with the fact that twm and Andrew have repeatedly town read eachother with zero reasoning. Twm said he wouldn't lynch andrew yesterday quite early and with no reasoning even though he went on to at least say he found gkrieg towny for "being helpful" in the same post. Andrew said he kinda sorta maybe felt like twm was town and then when he responded to my theory about twm's wagon and galz involvement in it he said it was not really alignment indicative and that he would maybe vote galz but not twm.
-
What can I say? I've got a townread on TWM. The only "hedginess" I guess you could glean from that was I also thought gkrieg was scum and I was wrong, so maybe I'm wrong about TWM too. You say my answers are "convenient" because then I don't have to make a read. So if I answered all four questions by saying "yes, this 100% means TWM and galz are partners" you would think I'm town?
I don't think pointing at someone and saying "they're scummy because they don't have fully formed reads" is really helpful. And besides, I do have some strong reads so to assume I don't is a little strange.
Andrew you disagreeing with me isn't the problem it's that your answers don't have any depth or analysis within them whatsoever. You've got a town read on twm but you can't say why. You just say I kinda maybe sorta think he's town. And you just say I don't think any of those things are alignment indivative which means you don't have to disagree and provide a reason why twm is actually towny.
I think he's town based on previous games in which I've observed him as scum and town. But I'm also a little wary because I don't really buy into meta as much as other people. And me saying those things aren't alignment indicative IS disagreeing with you, so it really isn't hedgey. I also said I'd like to see a galz flip before we discuss TWM's interactions with him further.
God I really don't like what mcmc is doing here, and I have my doubts that this would come from town!mcmc.
So you have no problems with the fact that twm and Andrew have repeatedly town read eachother with zero reasoning. Twm said he wouldn't lynch andrew yesterday quite early and with no reasoning even though he went on to at least say he found gkrieg towny for "being helpful" in the same post. Andrew said he kinda sorta maybe felt like twm was town and then when he responded to my theory about twm's wagon and galz involvement in it he said it was not really alignment indicative and that he would maybe vote galz but not twm.
Right. Consistently townreading TWM and being unwilling to vote him. This is EXACTLY how I would treat my scum partner. /sarcasm
-
God I really don't like what mcmc is doing here, and I have my doubts that this would come from town!mcmc.
What? Posing questions, specifically asking me to answer them and then making me his top scumread for not answering them exactly as he would've liked? I don't like it either but I think it could be a town!mcmc move.
I mean more the scum-team paranoia and trying to pin down every last scum including the SK on D2.
Sorry I'm town I'm having fun, my brother is the mod I want him cracking up or having his mind blown as I guess the scum team. I have no reasons for thinking ash is the sk other than he's weirdly lurky and un-impactful for ash. I don't want us to waste any time discussing who the sk is but it popped on my head that ash has been weird as I was writing my post.
I guess I'm just confounded that you would play this assertively as town when you particularly pointed out in the M98 scum QT how having bad reads and leading town into destruction in you last two town games made you doubt the strength of your town play. On the other hand, you were quieter and did not participate much in that game, and it led to an L-1 wagon on D1, so you have reason to change your playstyle as scum. (I also remember that you were the D1 lynch in the last game this size, partially for lurking)
-
God I really don't like what mcmc is doing here, and I have my doubts that this would come from town!mcmc.
So you have no problems with the fact that twm and Andrew have repeatedly town read eachother with zero reasoning.
That is correct.
-
God I really don't like what mcmc is doing here, and I have my doubts that this would come from town!mcmc.
So you have no problems with the fact that twm and Andrew have repeatedly town read eachother with zero reasoning. Twm said he wouldn't lynch andrew yesterday quite early and with no reasoning even though he went on to at least say he found gkrieg towny for "being helpful" in the same post. Andrew said he kinda sorta maybe felt like twm was town and then when he responded to my theory about twm's wagon and galz involvement in it he said it was not really alignment indicative and that he would maybe vote galz but not twm.
I think things like that become meaningful when one of the parties flips scum. Right now, you know, like 25% of the people are scum, so pinning even two scum like that would require extraordinary evidence. Which I don't think you have.
Mcmc seems both paranoid and overconfident at the same time. What alignment is that? (Serious question, I have no idea what to make of him.)
-
God I really don't like what mcmc is doing here, and I have my doubts that this would come from town!mcmc.
So you have no problems with the fact that twm and Andrew have repeatedly town read eachother with zero reasoning.
That is correct.
We just disageee about so much fundamentally it's comical.
Also as far as my playstyle goes I was downtrodden about my pr usage in my last town game and it didn't help my reads ended up being crap as well. I was much more excited and re-invigorated to play this game and be as effective and helpful as I possible can for multiple reasons
-
God I really don't like what mcmc is doing here, and I have my doubts that this would come from town!mcmc.
So you have no problems with the fact that twm and Andrew have repeatedly town read eachother with zero reasoning. Twm said he wouldn't lynch andrew yesterday quite early and with no reasoning even though he went on to at least say he found gkrieg towny for "being helpful" in the same post. Andrew said he kinda sorta maybe felt like twm was town and then when he responded to my theory about twm's wagon and galz involvement in it he said it was not really alignment indicative and that he would maybe vote galz but not twm.
I think things like that become meaningful when one of the parties flips scum. Right now, you know, like 25% of the people are scum, so pinning even two scum like that would require extraordinary evidence. Which I don't think you have.
Mcmc seems both paranoid and overconfident at the same time. What alignment is that? (Serious question, I have no idea what to make of him.)
The one time I was SK I had a cop power...
-
God I really don't like what mcmc is doing here, and I have my doubts that this would come from town!mcmc.
So you have no problems with the fact that twm and Andrew have repeatedly town read eachother with zero reasoning. Twm said he wouldn't lynch andrew yesterday quite early and with no reasoning even though he went on to at least say he found gkrieg towny for "being helpful" in the same post. Andrew said he kinda sorta maybe felt like twm was town and then when he responded to my theory about twm's wagon and galz involvement in it he said it was not really alignment indicative and that he would maybe vote galz but not twm.
I think things like that become meaningful when one of the parties flips scum. Right now, you know, like 25% of the people are scum, so pinning even two scum like that would require extraordinary evidence. Which I don't think you have.
Mcmc seems both paranoid and overconfident at the same time. What alignment is that? (Serious question, I have no idea what to make of him.)
20%
-
Faust just to be clear has your town read on me from earlier in the day dissipated? Or do you think my play is terribly confusing and hard to understand and that my reads are potentially wrong?
-
One thing that's bugging me about mcmc is that his reaction to hammering town is not "oh man, my read was wrong, sorry town!", it's "oh, the people who got off this town wagon are scummy". That does not seem like a town mindset to me, there is no doubting himself. The situation IS confusing, I know I'm not very confident I could pick even one scum, let alone four person scum teams. And mcmc is just doubling down on his reads, not pausing at all after hammering a town player last night. I could see this as a distraction for his own hammer, basically the scum narrative of "town wouldn't be this confident in their reads after just being wrong -> it's scum going aggressive.
-
Ugh lost the post...
One thing that's bugging me about mcmc is that his reaction to hammering town is not "oh man, my read was wrong, sorry town!", it's "oh, the people who got off this town wagon are scummy". That does not seem like a town mindset to me, there is no doubting himself. The situation IS confusing, I know I'm not very confident I could pick even one scum, let alone four person scum teams. And mcmc is just doubling down on his reads, not pausing at all after hammering a town player last night. I could see this as a distraction for his own hammer, basically the scum narrative of "town wouldn't be this confident in their reads after just being wrong -> it's scum going aggressive.
Also sorry that jreggie was town, hopefully everyone who wanted us to "wait" to end the day has actually caught up overnight. Also now that we actually have night results of people would like to I think there may or may not be some intelligent claims people can make and some setup speculation that could be had.
As you can see I was sorry. Also I don't know why people find it so scummy to name scum teams, it's not like my reads arent going to change after another set of flips. I think the one of the better ways I could scumhunt would be to analyze every combination of four players and see how they work as a unit. Obviously I don't have the time to do that so once I get some scum reads (twm/andrew/galz) I look for every connection I can to see if they fit as a unit. This may go back to how I play as scum compared to others, I typically either lose or win flawlessly and have a plan on how to act as a unit to get what we want done.
-
Faust just to be clear has your town read on me from earlier in the day dissipated? Or do you think my play is terribly confusing and hard to understand and that my reads are potentially wrong?
If you're town your reads should potentially be wrong.
-
One thing that's bugging me about mcmc is that his reaction to hammering town is not "oh man, my read was wrong, sorry town!", it's "oh, the people who got off this town wagon are scummy". That does not seem like a town mindset to me, there is no doubting himself. The situation IS confusing, I know I'm not very confident I could pick even one scum, let alone four person scum teams. And mcmc is just doubling down on his reads, not pausing at all after hammering a town player last night. I could see this as a distraction for his own hammer, basically the scum narrative of "town wouldn't be this confident in their reads after just being wrong -> it's scum going aggressive.
Hammer Hero is still a town utility power, right (especially if town outbid scum for it)? I mean, I thought it was clear he was the HH. I thought the only question was whether or not he was town or scum HH.
-
I think the one of the better ways I could scumhunt would be to analyze every combination of four players and see how they work as a unit.
Bin(19,4) = 3876
-
Hammer Hero is still a town utility power, right (especially if town outbid scum for it)? I mean, I thought it was clear he was the HH. I thought the only question was whether or not he was town or scum HH.
He has not claimed as such.
-
Faust just to be clear has your town read on me from earlier in the day dissipated? Or do you think my play is terribly confusing and hard to understand and that my reads are potentially wrong?
I think you're overall still more townie than scummy, but I'm not longer as sure as I felt earlier.
-
Faust just to be clear has your town read on me from earlier in the day dissipated? Or do you think my play is terribly confusing and hard to understand and that my reads are potentially wrong?
I think you're overall still more townie than scummy, but I'm not longer as sure as I felt earlier.
Darn
-
One thing that's bugging me about mcmc is that his reaction to hammering town is not "oh man, my read was wrong, sorry town!", it's "oh, the people who got off this town wagon are scummy". That does not seem like a town mindset to me, there is no doubting himself. The situation IS confusing, I know I'm not very confident I could pick even one scum, let alone four person scum teams. And mcmc is just doubling down on his reads, not pausing at all after hammering a town player last night. I could see this as a distraction for his own hammer, basically the scum narrative of "town wouldn't be this confident in their reads after just being wrong -> it's scum going aggressive.
Hammer Hero is still a town utility power, right (especially if town outbid scum for it)? I mean, I thought it was clear he was the HH. I thought the only question was whether or not he was town or scum HH.
Right. I think the other powers in the slot are better for town. So I would only expect to see a town hammer hero from the random slots.
-
Right to the first question, I mean.
-
Faust just to be clear has your town read on me from earlier in the day dissipated? Or do you think my play is terribly confusing and hard to understand and that my reads are potentially wrong?
If you're town your reads should potentially be wrong.
Yes and they are potentially wrong, heck it's still early in the day. Faust answered the question though so my post still did what I needed it to do.
-
I'm going to break this down into many different posts, one each for my thoughts on each person in/on/around the Reggie Wagon. If anything stands out that relates to Gkrieg or Cala I'll include it as well - but for the sake of "brevity" (hahaha. If this is what I call brevity, please someone save me from posting anything more detailed) I won't specifically be looking at that here.
Votes Reggie: Jake, faust, Galz, e, Dylan, Eevee, Sudgy, iguana, gkrieg *** LaLight, Jake(2), Sudgy(2), iguana(2), Space, TWM, Mcmc
I separated the wagon based on my own bias - it had peaked at 8 votes with gkrieg before falling back down to 5 prior to LaLight jumping back on - I see it as two separate wagons. Of note, those who left the wagon when it was at 8 were:
Eevee, Sudgy, TWM & Me.
Starting from the top:
First Person, Jake:
His first vote on Reggie came as his 7th post, and contained nothing but the vote. It was in response to Reggie suggesting we claim flavor names, which as a VT he didn't have (and thus now, post flip, is obvious he was joking). Jake never really explained the vote, but he did agree with O's assessment that "... or I just learned something very interesting" - this reaction suggests that O and Jake are more likely than not to be VT as well.
Much of the day goes by following that and Jake doesn't mention Reggie again until after Reggie has claimed to have a plan. He states that he doesn't want to lynch Reggie based on the cases presented, but would vote him to get the plan out. After that his only other post on the matter is right before mcmc hammers, when he says that he's fine with lynching Jake after the plan reveal.
Jake - given the plan was to self-hammer if at L-1, did you really think that was something scum would be willing to do? Self-voting/hammering is WAY worse for scum than for town, yes? I mean, it wasn't a great plan regardless, but I would be interested to know why you were willing to continue to push the lynch after he posted it.
-
Second person: faust
I actually don't want to do faust right now because I have a very strong town read on him for reasons I don't wish to discuss.
faust, feel free to answer this or ignore it, but it'll confirm my belief and we can discuss it later if you wish:
Was there a reason the results from N1 might have surprised you?
-
Third Person, Galz:
Obv!Town.
To answer in a little more depth to mcmc:
I don't think picking scum teams out is ever very effective, but especially not d2. I DO like the way you're thinking though - more directly, I like the way you're looking for interactions between players and events.
In regards to TWM - I didn't agree with yours or anybody's case on him d1 really. I think that he posted a thought that most people disagree with (namely that town pick #1 would take IC over 2-shot Vig), and then proceeded to draw conclusions from that. The best "case" I saw on him was that those conclusions were scummy because of course town takes 2-shot Vig over IC. I think I made it clear based on the cases on him that I didn't have much interest in voting for him. At that point I was doing rereads by person when I came across what I thought could be a scum statement from Reggie. It wasn't a strong case, but I felt it was better than the cases on TWM.
Obviously some people agreed with me. The wagon on Reggie built, the wagon on TWM fell off. You could argue (are arguing in fact) that it was intentional. I can't really debate this with you. Yes, I intentionally pushed for the case/person I found to be scummier.
When I removed myself from the Reggie wagon it was because it had grown to considerable size - more than I thought my case was worthy of (it was ok for d1, but it was still just a d1 case) - and knowing myself to be town I didn't (don't) believe that it got to L-2 and a softclaim without scum driving the lynch. Hence my desire to focus on those that pushed the wagon up after me. I got sidetracked by LaLight going onto the wagon because his reasoning seemed to want to match mine, but he drew a different conclusion (his group of people he found scummy for leaving the wagon were 4 of the 8 initially on (myself included), but didn't want to look at us instead choosing to vote Reggie - which still doesn't really make sense to me). After that the day ended while I wasn't around - and thus never got around to looking down the Reggie wagon.
You've brought up Eevee as well - but I want to do a separate post on him specifically.
-
Fourth person: e
Reading e is like reading O or Cuzz to me this game. I just like what the guy is doing/saying. He doesn't really have any Reggie interaction until he joins me on the wagon in post #876. He's moving from TWM to Reggie for what it's worth. The best I can gather from the move choice is:
1) e likes wagons and thinks the creation of them gives us more to analyze later (cant' say I disagree. :D)
2) e also found the interaction between gkrieg and Reggie to be strange (Yeah.... I kinda read into nothing apparently)
e - as this seems a little relevant towards mcmc's line of questioning right now, what "results" were you referring to in post #876 in regards to your time on the TWM wagon? What did you think of the wagons (both TWM and Reggie), and those on them?
e's post in #1313 is the first reference to votes following me ("I do find it interesting how quickly Galzria's alternative LaLight wagon room off with 3 sheep following quickly behind him.") - As the only vote I control is my own, I would be interested in other people's thoughts on this topic. I felt it happened with Reggie, and I felt it happened with LaLight.
e stays pretty true to the Reggie wagon throughout, while keeping tabs over on the TWM situation. I feel like e could be scum trying to balance two mislynches based on how the town reacts to the two big wagons - but I would feel stronger about this if I saw a TWM town flip. Right now it's pretty weak. Really there isn't anything that jumps out and screams scum to me, and overall I like his line of questioning/playing.
-
Fifth person, Dylan:
My first wagon scum read!
Really, there's not a lot here. Dylan hasn't posted a whole lot. He also went from the TWM wagon to the Reggie wagon. What gives me a scum vibe is the way he switched - he basically disagreed with my notion regarding the phrasing Reggie used earlier in the game, and then proceeded to vote for Reggie anyway in the same post.
J Reggie, where in this quote that you're saying it exists, did you say "I will be basing my reads off of something superficial"?
To make reads easier, from this point until an undisclosed later time, I will automatically be scumreading anyone who votes gkrieg and townreading anyone who votes pps.
Because what you're saying NOW is that the above quote IS "I had previously said I would be basing my reads off of something superficial" - which it's not. At all.
He was saying that the condition he was basing reads on (votes on those two people) was a superficial condition. Really, that seems pretty straightforward.
That being said, I just reread J Reggie, and there just wasn't a ton there. A few decent posts, but nothing that makes me not ok with Vote: J Reggie
PPE 1
The following then is Dylans last post - and the only other post where he even slightly mentions his vote:
I'm roughly 20 pages behind and am going VLA for the next couple days before I'll be able to catch up unless I am able to take some time to read during my time as a passenger. I'll check back in a few hours for an answer, but considering I don't know anything that is going on for context, should I unvote until I can catch up in a couple days? Thanks, and sorry I won't be here for a while.
I really don't like how Dylan got on the Reggie wagon, and I like even less that, knowing he was behind (but being aware enough to ask if he should unvote), he didn't do anything. How would it have hurt to actually unvote if he was unsure? Especially because he never gave anything that suggested super confidence in the vote placement to begin with.
Vote: Dylan for now. This may change as I continue my trek through the wagon - but it's definitely high up on my scum read right now.
-
Taking a small break before moving on to Eevee.
-
I think if I'd been part of a scum faction, the smart thing would have been to keep my inferences quiet.
This is real scummy.
Hmm. I assert that it isn't, because I'm not scum. Why do you think I'd be more inclined to say something like that as scum than as town, especially given the context in which I said it?
I just think generally scum is more cognizant of and vocal about "what they'd do as scum."
I have been accused of doing this both times when I was town (and also when I was mafia). I think it has more to do with whether someone is more introspective or not. I agree that it cane be a sign, but I think in this context it is more likely to be pretty neutral.
^I agree with this and am wary of anyone who puts forth such an argument about something like this. These things aren't 100%.
Yes, you should definitely be wary! These things aren't 100%! If only I had used a word like "generally" I might not have implied otherwise!
-
Faust you think ninja and one-shot cop are better roles for town than hammer hero?
Ninja is useless, one-shot cop can at max utility catch scum, at worst hit investigation immune/get blocked and receive no result. Hammer hero can at max utility create two unkillable IC's and at worst kill town. I think hammer hero is the better role here.
-
Faust you think ninja and one-shot cop are better roles for town than hammer hero?
Ninja is useless, one-shot cop can at max utility catch scum, at worst hit investigation immune/get blocked and receive no result. Hammer hero can at max utility create two unkillable IC's and at worst kill town. I think hammer hero is the better role here.
all that stuff he just said. plus, all decent roles to keep out of scum's hands
-
Faust you think ninja and one-shot cop are better roles for town than hammer hero?
Ninja is useless, one-shot cop can at max utility catch scum, at worst hit investigation immune/get blocked and receive no result. Hammer hero can at max utility create two unkillable IC's and at worst kill town. I think hammer hero is the better role here.
two?
-
Hammer Hero is still a town utility power, right (especially if town outbid scum for it)? I mean, I thought it was clear he was the HH. I thought the only question was whether or not he was town or scum HH.
He has not claimed as such.
WIFOM works against scum too
Fishing is scummy
Behavior is a strong tell, see point 1
-
Wait am I confused or didn't faust say it was unlikely a town player would pick hammer hero over ninja/one-shot cop.
Right. I think the other powers in the slot are better for town. So I would only expect to see a town hammer hero from the random slots.
I am saying I think hammer hero is the best town power of that slot.
Pps/cuzz what do you guys think? Or don't answer that if it's not helpful I'm just confused
-
Faust you think ninja and one-shot cop are better roles for town than hammer hero?
Ninja is useless, one-shot cop can at max utility catch scum, at worst hit investigation immune/get blocked and receive no result. Hammer hero can at max utility create two unkillable IC's and at worst kill town. I think hammer hero is the better role here.
two?
Oh now I get what you meant. Yes two I don't know if I want to discuss this more.
-
Hammer hero seems like the most fun role of the bunch, novelty and all. I wouldn't be surprised if it got picked by town.
Scum would probably be more likely to bid for that slot, though.
-
Wow. People weren't kidding when they said don't fall behind in this game. 3 pages showed up just while I was reading this afternoon (which feels like the only thing I have done this afternoon.
1st, re: Galz's read of me.
I wasn't disagreeing with what you were trying to do, I was just pointing out that I thought you were misrepresenting his post. That has nothing to do with how I actually read J Reggie. I would point out flawed logic even on my top scumread to make sure that the reasons we are lynching people are actually solid. So my disagreement with you and my vote are completely unrelated.
I don't have time to actually go back and get quotes and stuff now, but these are just some thoughts I had while reading the EoD1 and everything from today.
Faust seems like town, but it's a weak read and he is still in the realm of fakeable-town-faust meta.
Andrew does not sound like scum!Andrew from our game as scum partners. There, I remember him being pretty firm in his reads and trying to drive lynches pretty hard. I got the impression he was being more non-committal than I remember.
Gkrieg seems like a common early game NK, but at the same time, the last two scum teams I've been on (including several vet players in this game) have left him alive for a while because of the WIFOM that him surviving brings about him surviving because he's scum. So I think him dying D1 either comes from a scum team of old players who haven't played with him much and much younger players that legitimately are afraid of town!gkrieg than a scum team led by players like Ash, faust, or Andrew. (Ash is in that list because he was my partner in one of the games where we did that.)
I'm actually not willing to just give mcmc a town pass by him being wrong about the scum QT like some people seem to be. He's good enough to fake getting something like that wrong. I'm not saying he did fake that, just that he's good enough to come up with something like that for towncred. I'm still null on him.
Unfortunately, my reads coming out of that are still weaker than what I would have expected because nothing really stood out, although there was just so much info there I'm probably just on infomation overload.
For now, I will Vote: Space until I have time to completely reread other people.
A couple PPEs
-
For now, I will Vote: Space until I have time to completely reread other people.
I snipped your text for later sanity of us all but I must say I was really vibing on everything you wrote right up to the point you votes Space with nothing to support it. What the heck was that about?
-
Faust you think ninja and one-shot cop are better roles for town than hammer hero?
Ninja is useless, one-shot cop can at max utility catch scum, at worst hit investigation immune/get blocked and receive no result. Hammer hero can at max utility create two unkillable IC's and at worst kill town. I think hammer hero is the better role here.
I had the slots confused actually.
-
Right. Eevee next.
*****Conclusion Here, Read fully if you desire***
I really don't like how Eevee has tied himself to me throughout d1. Between posts #245, and #977, combined with the sheeping onto Reggie and LaLight I do feel like he's setting me up to be a mislynch/Vig target should he ever die (assuming he flips scum). If he's town, I don't really know how to explain his play. - I'm definitely more in the scum!Eevee camp than I am in town!Eevee camp based off what I see below though.
****************************************
A jumping off point for what I thought of Eevee early/mid d1:
What I really want to focus on here are two things though:
1) Eevee/Reggie
2) Eevee/Sheep
3) Eevee/Galz
First and Second, Eevee/Reggie and Eevee/Sheep:
No interaction at all prior to his vote on Reggie in post #902. My case was posted in #854, and this was Eevee's first post since that point. e, Dylan and TWM had all voted to Reggie in between, making Eevee vote #5. Eevee's vote post:
Vote: J Reggie
His very next post also contained nothing about Reggie, but did pertain to me. I'll circle back to it at the end of this post (along with a few other posts of his on this topic). In post #984, he asks "Want to vote andrew with me?", referencing a scum read he had prior to voting Reggie - note he still hasn't mentioned Reggie outside his vote at this point.
After Reggie first mentions a plan, Eevee unvotes. This is in post #1019. We still have yet to see a reason why he was on Reggie to begin with.
Unvote
Even though Reggie just pulled something like this as scum, I'm not so sure he is here.
He followed that up with an immediate vote back to Andrew - the one place he's been consistent about scumreading so far.
The following post (#1108, 200 after his initial vote) is the first time Eevee mentions anything about his Reggie vote - and it's pretty much just to acknowledge that it was nothing more than a sheep vote. Reggie was a pretty active poster though, and Eevee did spend much of the day heavily suggesting we should be going after lurkers - so it's surprising that he like my case on Reggie enough to get on board with it - even more that he liked it enough to get on board without actually saying anything about it.
I'm kind of torn, because reading the setup wizards trying to analyze the draft is very interesting to me, but I'm doubtful if we can find any conclusions that are more beneficial than the accidental revealing stuff for scum would be. Like, I doubt we could find anything super useful for certain, but I could easily see an important PR being outed. Is the juice worth the squeeze?
If you wish to do something helpful, how about answering my question about your Andrew vote?
I don't really have any great master theories, I dislike some of the bigger wagons because lynching a top poster doesn't seem productive, Andrew has been less controversial and visible than I'd expect, and hasn't posted anything that made me think "that's towny". I don't really have a any case to post I would expect others to follow, but I think someone like Andrew would be our best bet for hitting scum.
Of the viable wagons, I guess I like Reggie the best.
I must admit, I don't have the patience for trying to create "real" day 1 cases, because they feel like such guesswork. I'd be happy to sheep one if someone created one I fancy (like I initially did with J Reggie).
A little strange, following that Cuzz pushed Eevee on "I don't really have any great master theories, I dislike some of the bigger wagons because lynching a top poster doesn't seem productive" specifically, and asked him the following 3 questions:
"Which wagons do you consider the bigger ones?
Of those, which ones do you dislike?
Who do you consider the top posters among them?"
Eevee responds in post #1115 by mentioning the TWM and mcmc wagon - but not the Reggie wagon. In #1142 I ask him to expand on his reason for joining the Reggie wagon, and his response is simply "I thought he was a superior option to TWM/mcmc." - but it's not like those were the only 3 people that could have votes on them. It feels more like Eevee chose to be on the Reggie wagon for the sake of being on a wagon - which is definitely a little scummy. I'm all for wagons, but part of the reason is that it forces people to post opinions. He didn't do that.
In post #1207 I vote LaLight following a series of back and forths with him, and in Eevee's very next post, he sheeps along on the vote (note where he says faust I assume he means me - faust hadn't said anything about LaLight at that point):
Vote: LaLight
For reasons faust just so concisely outlined.
That vote was post #1219. In post #1269 TWM calls out the quick joiners of the LL wagon (O, PPS, Eevee), and in Eevee's very next post (#1274) he unvotes.
In #1390 Eevee gives his first Reggie read in awhile, shortly before Reggie gets lynched (mcmc hammered in #1400), suggesting he looks too erratic to be scum. It almost feels like "Oh no... don't lynch Reggie... there's no way he's scum..." - as in, it doesn't feel like his heart is in trying to prevent this lynch from happening. Maybe that's just how I'm reading it?
All in all, his interactions with the Reggie wagon are really weak, especially considering they seem to contradict most of his feelings throughout the day regarding where we should be looking to lynch.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lastly, I wanted to touch on two posts that are really weird to me because they feel like he's tying himself to me unnaturally. Like he wants me to like him and find him townie.
First post, his first of the game:
Heyooo! It's so cool to see O and Galzria back, both are true legends of f.ds mafia. Galzria was such a killer in his heyday.
And post #977 (This one moreso, because it answered the question while deflecting and not answering the question. There was no real context to this game):
Galz how do you feel about eevee. Same question to eevee but vise versa.
I missed Galzria! I don't think he looks scummy. I also don't think I would suspect anything if he was scum.
Fun fact: The worst I've ever been duped, it was Ozle's first murder mystery game (maybe my favorite game ever), I was some sort of a semi-cop, and had a QT with Galzria for some reason. I hadn't claimed, and was withholding my results from town, but felt so comfortable with Galzria in our QT, I told him what I had found out and asked for advice.
I didn't make it to the morning and never got to claim. Galzria was scum.
I'm going to put my conclusion at the top since this post is entirely too long, and my thoughts are a little scattered.
-
For now, I will Vote: Space until I have time to completely reread other people.
I snipped your text for later sanity of us all but I must say I was really vibing on everything you wrote right up to the point you votes Space with nothing to support it. What the heck was that about?
Like I said, all of that was just from impressions and stuff I got while reading. Space seemed scummier, so I put my vote there until I have time to read and actually develop good reasons.
-
I think there is a distinction between "let's not lynch the most active players" and "let's lynch a lurker". I would have guessed that Reggie would have been on the lower half of post count, which i would guess has a higher than average amount of scum. The reggie vote was prettt much just wagoning someone i thought wasn't towny, which is also why i unvoted later - it was a flimsy vote and i didn't want to see that lynch go through in the end.
The buddying is just me legitimately thinking it's so cool to play with you after all this time.
-
Need to put things down that I am thinking. I can't seem to access my QT at the moment, so I am going to put this here even though they aren't fully fleshed out yet. So sorry for lack of explanations behind them.
I am getting scummy vibes from 2.7 and Eevee. I want to go back and reread both of them and figure out why. faust feels very town. Still think O is town.
I'm feeling the scums from 2.7 too.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say I think I'm somewhat kinda maybe a little decent at reading TWM and I think maybe he might possibly sorta be town? Maybe?
I think you read me well as well. Similar with 2.7 which is partially why I am suspect of him here, but that might be unfair on both counts.
-
OK.
J Reggie starts the voting on me.
Ash joins - no explanation
mcmc joins - no explanation
Dylan joins - no explanation
sudgy joins. He is the first to provide something of an explanation, FYI. faust has already shown how the reasoning looks fabricated.
2.7 joins - fun place to join
mcmc comes back on
sudgy comes back on voting for me for unvoting J Reggie, which was clearly me being factitious about Jimmmm's request to not end the day early.
And then that is it for Day 1. sudgy votes me again for supposed Calamatis interactions. Again, he didn't actually reread Calam or at least didn't post those, he just found ones that pertained to me and only analyzed those.
vote: sudgy I think both of his votes on me today are reflective of scum falling for me as bait lynch with fabricated or forced reasons.
And I could also look at Dylan/2.7. Ash is an enigma and I see mcmc as town.
Forgot Dylan was in this game. Jeez.
I'm not sure what you're getting at exactly about sudgy. Bait lynch? Can you explain further please?
Think I meant to say lynch bait. Basically I have realized that when I am town I a bit of a magnet for scum to pretend to suspect me. My two town games and this one I have had early "suspicion" and votes from players that were later revealed to be scum. Like M98. All of the scum were on my wagon and pushing it. NM9 I think was similar and is probably here as well. Something about how I play as town makes scum think I would be a good lynch. Probably because I am a bit silly and off and post what I think the consequences be damned sort of attitude.
-
I really don't like what Galzria is doing. D1, he posts a huge case on J Reggie, then pivots as soon as it gets any traction. Now today he's calling his case weak:
When I removed myself from the Reggie wagon it was because it had grown to considerable size - more than I thought my case was worthy of (it was ok for d1, but it was still just a d1 case) - and knowing myself to be town I didn't (don't) believe that it got to L-2 and a softclaim without scum driving the lynch. Hence my desire to focus on those that pushed the wagon up after me.
To me, this looks like reinventing his own narrative. At the time, the case was stated very strongly. Now that the case is on a known VT, he wants to downplay and it call it "okay for D1." It's like he wants everyone else who was on the wagon to take the blame for what happened aside from him. It also concerns me how easily people add their votes to his when he casts a vote, and how few people are willing to vote for him. People join right away when he votes for J Reggie, and right away when he votes for LaLight, and now today several people are saying he looks scummy from yesterday but no one is casting a vote.
McMc is calling scum teams because of this stuff. I think that's a little ridiculous, but in general I still think it's scum indicative when no one is willing to vote for a player and I think it can be scum indicative when lots of people are willing to sheep a player too.
Also, in general, I don't like how much he posts conclusions and compared to how little he asks questions. I mean, it's easy to solve something when you already know the answers.
Vote: Galzria
-
Also, hello - I've been accused of lurking. Actually, yesterday was too beautiful to play mafia.
-
Finally read up. Not a lot of time, mostly skimming along.
O seems super different from his D1 presentation. Everyone so far seems the same. I think day to day changes can be alignment-indicative; night action, the dead and not dead, etc. can garner reactions.
So the talk of gkrieg's death (or lack thereof?) is interesting. Given it is game 100, seems like time to share but tells/theories: players have specific ways of discussing the players they kill.
-
Actually seeing if my recollection holds up here:
M98: mcmc, Robz, Eevee and faust were the scums. mcmc voted for me early and pushed my lynch pretty hard Day 1 (enough that faust tried to spin it the next day that I was the SK that shot him because of this). Day 2 faust, Eevee and Robz were all on my lynch wagon.
NM9: Lalight and Space were scum. Lalight was the major pusher of my wagon that day. I got up to L-1. And I am not remembering that space didn't vote for me here. So I guess it isn't a perfect theory.
I think I was a good (likely) wagon for scum to join and am interested in that possibility. Of course townies likely joined it as well, as they did in the games above. So it is looking at the wagons and trying to figure out which ones of them are most likely based off context. sudgy's context, plus his play Day 2 thus far I think are the best bet.
-
Can you provide some quotes or quote numbers TWM?
In regard to sudgy? Sure.
His first vote on me;
I finally caught up! (during my chemistry class, hope that won't bite me in the butt)
Anyway, Vote: The_Wine_Merchant. I don't like some of his setup speculation at the beginning. I feel like he was trying to breadcrumb too much in it all (for possible fakeclaims in the future), and I feel like he's been reacting to the votes in a scummy way. It feels like scum feeling caught for the wrong reasons.
His vote coming back to me;
Unvote don't want to get too close to ending day.
Vote: The_Wine_Merchant that was way too fast
His most recent vote on me today;
I know faust kind of did this already, but I feel like there's a bit of info to be gleaned from Calamitas' posts. These are the only two posts that he mentions other players:
This game is really huge.
In regard to the game, I don't like the extent to which TWM is talking about vigs here.
Can someone voting for JReggie present the case in a nytshell?
I don't like that first one. Of all the things people were talking about (mainly a lot of setup speculation), Calamitas mentions TWM's vig talk, which he only mentioned twice, and the last mention was several pages before. It's just an awkward thing to mention. I've already had a scumread on TWM anyway, so maybe there's confirmation bias, but I feel like this is the only thing that Calamitas said that could lead to anything. There's also this interaction:
Guys, I cannot follow really. Can someone give me a short version with the reasoning for all claims with all relevant evidence?
(Please tag it with @Cala). This game is just crazy.
@Cala.
Very few if any of the votes have any substantial reasons at all. This is the hardest game I have had getting reads that are much good at all and I am fully caught up and aware. This isn't going to change until we get some flips. But apparently we want 4 more days of it.
Calamitas makes a plea for people to talk to him, and TWM is the only one who responds. Also, TWM is basically just saying "It's okay, just keep lurking."
Basically, Calamitas and TWM seemed to notice each other more than others did. I know it's not terribly useful info, but I feel like it's something. I still find TWM to be scummy, so Vote: The_Wine_Merchant for now.
-
Here are my thoughts, from memory, on everyone else:
Galzria - scum. see above.
The_Wine_Merchant - So far, I believe from what he's said and from what a few others have confirmed that TWM is playing into his town meta, and that as scum he has not played like this yet. That would mean that for him to be scum, he would have to have studied somewhat how to play into his own town meta. Slight town for now. I do not see the connections that McMc has suggested between TWM and Galzria at all.
Eevee - I don't like all the sheeping. I don't like his defenses. But I remember having similar feelings about him in the last game we played, where everyone thought he was scum, and he ended up getting shot by the SK who was aiming for scum, and he was town. I haven't decided what that means.
faust - Null. Seems a little less present than usual.
LaLight - At this point, I think the LaLight/Galzria argument makes me lean town on him. I have trouble reading LaLight, though.
Awaclus - probably town. Awaclus is never this bored with a game when he's scum.
SpaceAnemone - Scummy place on the J Reggie wagon makes me lean slight scum. A lot of null posts.
2.71828..... - Having trouble remembering e. Need to reread him in detail.
pingpongsam - IIRC, PPS avoided all major wagons all day yesterday. Could see that as scummy in a game this big. But I do not get scum vibes from his playstyle.
Dylan32 - scummy lurking, could lynch
RoadRunner - self aware scummy lurking and non-playing - could lynch
Jimmmmm - hasn't even started playing yet. I want to let him be.
O - Awaclus thinks you are scum, so therefore you are uh, sarcastic. I guess all the people townreading you probably means that I shouldn't. Haven't seen a reason to lynch.
AndrewisFTTW - I think I mostly agree with the cases on Andrew, although McMcs case is overblown and ridiculous. Like Galzria, lots of people suspect him, few willing to vote him. That's suspicious.
Cuzz - I lean town. Clear, targeted, interrogative play that is hard to fake as scum, plus
ashersky - Don't like the cases on Ash. He's got a VLA posted and has stated several times that he won't have time to play as hard until later. Let's give him a chance to actually play before we lynch him maybe? My bias here is that I really don't want Ash to go Yuma on us.
JaketheBaseballGod22 - Started the J Reggie wagon. I think never left it? Seems like town. I guess Jake would be a good one not to forget about later.
mcmcsalot - The self awareness of his meta makes me think he could easily be scum who has decided to play different as scum than he usually does. It's too too easy to play erratically, then say "I would never be this careless as scum!" Do not trust.
sudgy - agree with most of the cases on Sudgy - somewhat scummy, somewhat lurky. I dont really want to vote here though, because Galz.
-
Cuzz - I lean town. Clear, targeted, interrogative play that is hard to fake as scum, plus he's the only one who has paid any attention to me this game.
I didn't write that post in order.
-
So basically iguana is suspicious of those playing the game. Most suspicious of those most playing the game. Those that aren't really playing at all are probably town and should be allowed to play one day.
-
I really don't like what Galzria is doing. D1, he posts a huge case on J Reggie, then pivots as soon as it gets any traction.
That's somewhat accurate, yes. I did make a case on Reggie (wouldn't call it huge - it had two main points to it), and I did pivot off after almost 24 hours and everybody had a chance to weigh in. I was more interested in the reactions to the wagon than to actually lynching Reggie over an early d1 case.
Now today he's calling his case weak:
When I removed myself from the Reggie wagon it was because it had grown to considerable size - more than I thought my case was worthy of (it was ok for d1, but it was still just a d1 case) - and knowing myself to be town I didn't (don't) believe that it got to L-2 and a softclaim without scum driving the lynch. Hence my desire to focus on those that pushed the wagon up after me.
To me, this looks like reinventing his own narrative. At the time, the case was stated very strongly. Now that the case is on a known VT, he wants to downplay and it call it "okay for D1."
I disagree with this conclusion completely. This is a direct quote from my leaving the wagon yesterday, before we knew anything about Reggie's alignment:
I don't think my case on J Reggie was bad. Especially for d1. I think that there was definitely some points of interest in it - but the day is young, and I think our chances of hitting scum looking at his wagon are much higher than the chance that I happened to find the smallest of scum type slips out of any player on d1.
Nothing has changed from my perspective. I had an ok d1 case, but that's all it was. I felt then, and do now, that looking at the wagon that followed that case would lead to our best chances of finding scum. This was (as stated in the post I just linked) completely independent of Reggie's alignment.
It's like he wants everyone else who was on the wagon to take the blame for what happened aside from him.
Again, I think you'll find this is incorrect. In my questioning of LaLight yesterday, I continually kept myself in the list of people that he indicated that he found scummy for having left the Reggie wagon. I don't believe that from anybody else's perspective I should be anything other than a question mark (someone asked yesterday who should be trusted more, me or someone else and I responded in similar fashion - why would anybody trust either of us?) - I believe that from yours, or fausts, or mcmc's, or LL's or anybody's point of view I should be looked at as closely as anybody else. --- That said, I don't know how you would expect me to look at myself? So yes, I focus on everybody else.
It also concerns me how easily people add their votes to his when he casts a vote, and how few people are willing to vote for him. People join right away when he votes for J Reggie, and right away when he votes for LaLight, and now today several people are saying he looks scummy from yesterday but no one is casting a vote.
This concerns me as well and I've mentioned it a few times now. I don't know what to tell you though. It's their votes, not mine. I wish people added more detail and thought to their votes as well instead of just sheeping me when I see something I find scummy.
McMc is calling scum teams because of this stuff. I think that's a little ridiculous, but in general I still think it's scum indicative when no one is willing to vote for a player and I think it can be scum indicative when lots of people are willing to sheep a player too.
Neither of these lines of thought make much sense to me.
Also, in general, I don't like how much he posts conclusions and compared to how little he asks questions. I mean, it's easy to solve something when you already know the answers.
Vote: Galzria
I ask questions when I feel I want to flesh out how I feel about things. I asked LaLight and Reggie both many questions. But when I'm doing what I have been today (rereading and looking at interactions based on events) it's more to focus on what's been said and done already, and less about looking for reactions from today. I still ask questions when I feel I need to, but yes - it's more analyzing than it is question/answer.
PPE: Many.
-
So basically iguana is suspicious of those playing the game. Most suspicious of those most playing the game. Those that aren't really playing at all are probably town and should be allowed to play one day.
I don't think that is what iguana is saying. I think iguana is using extra-game criteria to decide on a D2 lynch and trying to give people who are VLA or busy IRL a pass.
I kinda understand it, but also don't like it because it's not alignment-indicative and it gives scum incentive to lie about these things and then everything gets personal and toxic. Of course pushing to lynch such people can also get unpleasant. It's my least favorite aspect of mafia.
But in any case, iguana said they would lynch Dylan and RR, and is suspicious of sudgy and Space.
They also lean town on me and are null on O, faust and you, pps. These don't break down quite as simply as you imply.
-
iguana, what's your pronoun?
-
So basically iguana is suspicious of those playing the game. Most suspicious of those most playing the game. Those that aren't really playing at all are probably town and should be allowed to play one day.
Actually I want to give these two people a pass for now:
Jimmmmm - hasn't even started playing yet. I want to let him be.
ashersky - Don't like the cases on Ash. He's got a VLA posted and has stated several times that he won't have time to play as hard until later. Let's give him a chance to actually play before we lynch him maybe? My bias here is that I really don't want Ash to go Yuma on us.
because they have both said that later on the expect to have more time and will be able to post more content. I want to se what that content is, so I don't want to lynch them right now.
These people, however:
Dylan32 - scummy lurking, could lynch
RoadRunner - self aware scummy lurking and non-playing - could lynch
AndrewisFTTW - I think I mostly agree with the cases on Andrew, although McMcs case is overblown and ridiculous. Like Galzria, lots of people suspect him, few willing to vote him. That's suspicious.
sudgy - agree with most of the cases on Sudgy - somewhat scummy, somewhat lurky. I dont really want to vote here though, because Galz.
are lurking and have also made a few scummy posts. I think the difference between the Ash cases I've seen today and the cases on, say, Sudgy, is that the Ash cases have been 'He's lurking, we should lynch him." and the Sudgy cases are based on things he has actually said.
-
Bleh. Been looking through posts for too long today. Going to take a break and give my eyes a rest. I've got some work that needs doing anyway. I'll still be on mobile, but I'll continue with my look down the Reggie wagon a bit later.
-
iguana, what's your pronoun?
I'm a boy. I'm not actually a reptile but it's fine if you think I am.
-
We are really marching in lockstep with PPS in this game, and I'm not sure what to make of it. Basically, he's been townreading me all game, and while correct and appreciated, I don't know if it's something I should feel comfortable with. Then again, I agree with his reads and general view of the game as well.
I was pleasantly surprised at his lack of scumread on me. I'm still struggling too much to have a decent read on the people who're new to me, so I can't say yet whether or not I agree with his reads overall.
-
And, in reply to both of the quotes, please show other posts that Calamitas had actual interesting interactions with others. It mostly was setup theory which anybody can fake, and asking about the J Reggie wagon (which anybody could do). These were the only two interesting things I saw him post.
I'll do my best:
1. JReggie - asks for nutshell case on him
2. Galzria - responds to Galz noting his lack of reads/votes, specifically calls him out on lack of reads
3. gkrieg - agrees with gkrieg
4. The_Wine_Merchant - me talking about vigs
5. Calamitas - himself
6. Eevee - states interest in voting
7. faust
8. LaLight - asks about scumslips
9. Awaclus - asks Awaclus about hard evidence, multiple posts here
10. SpaceAnemone - talks to space about werewolves, back and forth here; large post about claiming stuff. Space specifically asked for his opinion here.
11. 2.71828.....
12.pingpongsam
13. Dylan32
14. RoadRunner
15.iguanaiguana
16. Jimmmmm - quotes Calam asking for a case on J Reggie
17. O
18. AndrewisFTTW
19. Cuzz - weighs in on the conversation with gkrieg; Cuzz says he has no read on him specifically when talking about lurkers; says would lynch today
20. ashersky
21. JaketheBaseballGod22
22. mcmcsalot - agrees with mcmc and asks about softdeadlines, back and forth here; says what Calam did (Galz called it out) is 100% in line with Calamatis.
23. sudgy
Blanks are no interaction that I could spot, many are lurkers themselves to that isn't surprising that two lurkers didn't interact with each other. So yeah, interactions with over half of the town. My point is proven. There aren't a lot of interactions but there are certainly more than just me and J Reggie interacting with him. There are various levels of interactions, but I see nothing to separate my interaction above the rest, especially when sudgy completely failed to actually analyze the interactions in any way other than to continue fabricating or continue confirming (I lean toward fabricating) a scum read on me.
If I take anything from this I would think Eevee or Cuzz are the two that jump out at me as both state willingness to lynch him among a group of others. It generates an interaction that isn't likely to generate a lynch.
-
The_Wine_Merchant - So far, I believe from what he's said and from what a few others have confirmed that TWM is playing into his town meta, and that as scum he has not played like this yet. That would mean that for him to be scum, he would have to have studied somewhat how to play into his own town meta. Slight town for now. I do not see the connections that McMc has suggested between TWM and Galzria at all.
I think to be fair I had the weird experience of playing two mafia games prior to ever playing as town. So my mafia experience was completely devoid of any town experience and I expect it would be different from my previous scum meta based off those experiences. That said, I think my town meta would be difficult to pull off and I would not be as within my town meta as I am now. For whatever that means.
-
Fancy rebuttal
I do not trust the way that you are able to put a super-complentary-towards-yourself spin on everything related to you. The effect is suspicious, because you are taking something you DID, vote for Reggie with a case that looked strong and lead to his lynch, without actually being ON that lynch -- and then you are trying to take all the scumminess away with things that you have SAID-your supposed townie motivations for your actions.
I fully admit that your rebuttal appears stronger than my case. But the fact that I feel verbally outmatched does nothing to derail the strength of my conviction. I should have stuck with this yesterday:
Vote: Galzria
I don't want to let this guy Sherlock town into the dirt.
At least until something more convincing comes along, I'm sticking with it today.
Cue the hordes of people who will join me on this sensible quest.
-
mcmc is obviously (to me) off about the scum team thing. I think my townish read of Andrew is completely fair based off my understanding of how he has played previous scum games. We were partners once, I observed him once as scum (correctly calling it as an observer) and I town read him accurately last game. Plus he modded a game with me when I was town and townread me correctly last game.
Galz I don't know what to think. Lots of work, but consistently coming into slightly different conclusions than me. I am interested to see what happens with him on later days mostly.
-
At least until something more convincing comes along, I'm sticking with it today.
Sudgy!
-
Oh. And mcmc wasn't ever scum partners with me and Andrew at the same time. I combined games there.
-
I could be down with a Sudgy vote. I'm still looking over his Reggie stuff, but these two quotes to me seem contradictory:
It's usually way worse to scum for a scum player to die than to town for a town player to die. So, scum will usually have a greater will to live than town. Then, on top of it all, if you did nothing wrong and everybody hates you, of course you get frustrated. Sure, town will get frustrated too, but not nearly as much as scum does.
Anyway, I think that any setup speculation is useless D1. We don't have any information and can't really figure out anything because of that. The only thing we get is possibly outed PRs.
I still like my J Reggie vote. However, I do like the idea of people self-hammering (when they are definitely getting lynched anyway) in anticipation of a hammer hero. Not just here, but all the time until we confirm there is no hammer hero alive.
The second is, obviously, after Reggie had stated his plan. But Sudgy was still voting him. Which means Sudgy... thought he was scum? Scum that was willing to self-hammer? That goes against what he said above. Granted there is WIFOM in there, but I don't think that's what Sudgy was suggesting was going on.
-
I could be down with a Sudgy vote. I'm still looking over his Reggie stuff, but these two quotes to me seem contradictory:
It's usually way worse to scum for a scum player to die than to town for a town player to die. So, scum will usually have a greater will to live than town. Then, on top of it all, if you did nothing wrong and everybody hates you, of course you get frustrated. Sure, town will get frustrated too, but not nearly as much as scum does.
Anyway, I think that any setup speculation is useless D1. We don't have any information and can't really figure out anything because of that. The only thing we get is possibly outed PRs.
I still like my J Reggie vote. However, I do like the idea of people self-hammering (when they are definitely getting lynched anyway) in anticipation of a hammer hero. Not just here, but all the time until we confirm there is no hammer hero alive.
The second is, obviously, after Reggie had stated his plan. But Sudgy was still voting him. Which means Sudgy... thought he was scum? Scum that was willing to self-hammer? That goes against what he said above. Granted there is WIFOM in there, but I don't think that's what Sudgy was suggesting was going on.
I think everybody misinterpreted the self-hammer plan. It wasn't to self-hammer when possible, it was to self-hammer when they were already guaranteed to be lynched. The ONLY difference between a normal hammer and his plan was that statistics would be different. I think Reggie's plan was an excellent one that 100% guarantees that scum could never use a hammer hero.
I have to go now again, I'm planning on working on this game a bit more over the next couple of days.
-
I'm going to break this down into many different posts, one each for my thoughts on each person in/on/around the Reggie Wagon. If anything stands out that relates to Gkrieg or Cala I'll include it as well - but for the sake of "brevity" (hahaha. If this is what I call brevity, please someone save me from posting anything more detailed) I won't specifically be looking at that here.
Votes Reggie: Jake, faust, Galz, e, Dylan, Eevee, Sudgy, iguana, gkrieg *** LaLight, Jake(2), Sudgy(2), iguana(2), Space, TWM, Mcmc
I separated the wagon based on my own bias - it had peaked at 8 votes with gkrieg before falling back down to 5 prior to LaLight jumping back on - I see it as two separate wagons. Of note, those who left the wagon when it was at 8 were:
Eevee, Sudgy, TWM & Me.
Starting from the top:
First Person, Jake:
His first vote on Reggie came as his 7th post, and contained nothing but the vote. It was in response to Reggie suggesting we claim flavor names, which as a VT he didn't have (and thus now, post flip, is obvious he was joking). Jake never really explained the vote, but he did agree with O's assessment that "... or I just learned something very interesting" - this reaction suggests that O and Jake are more likely than not to be VT as well.
Much of the day goes by following that and Jake doesn't mention Reggie again until after Reggie has claimed to have a plan. He states that he doesn't want to lynch Reggie based on the cases presented, but would vote him to get the plan out. After that his only other post on the matter is right before mcmc hammers, when he says that he's fine with lynching Jake after the plan reveal.
Jake - given the plan was to self-hammer if at L-1, did you really think that was something scum would be willing to do? Self-voting/hammering is WAY worse for scum than for town, yes? I mean, it wasn't a great plan regardless, but I would be interested to know why you were willing to continue to push the lynch after he posted it.
I have done the same thing many times as scum by saying I will self hammer if need be but I'd rather try to lynch scum. I did push the lynch after he posted it.
-
Argh.. this game is really getting away from me. Hopefully more time tomorrow/Wednesday to read/think/post, but it's waaay after midnight now and I really need sleep.
-
This might be off topic, but I'd bet all my coins in that weird d&d game that whoever got first bid went for the hammer hero, regardless of alignment.
-
Fourth person: e
Reading e is like reading O or Cuzz to me this game. I just like what the guy is doing/saying. He doesn't really have any Reggie interaction until he joins me on the wagon in post #876. He's moving from TWM to Reggie for what it's worth. The best I can gather from the move choice is:
1) e likes wagons and thinks the creation of them gives us more to analyze later (cant' say I disagree. :D)
2) e also found the interaction between gkrieg and Reggie to be strange (Yeah.... I kinda read into nothing apparently)
e - as this seems a little relevant towards mcmc's line of questioning right now, what "results" were you referring to in post #876 in regards to your time on the TWM wagon? What did you think of the wagons (both TWM and Reggie), and those on them?
e's post in #1313 is the first reference to votes following me ("I do find it interesting how quickly Galzria's alternative LaLight wagon room off with 3 sheep following quickly behind him.") - As the only vote I control is my own, I would be interested in other people's thoughts on this topic. I felt it happened with Reggie, and I felt it happened with LaLight.
e stays pretty true to the Reggie wagon throughout, while keeping tabs over on the TWM situation. I feel like e could be scum trying to balance two mislynches based on how the town reacts to the two big wagons - but I would feel stronger about this if I saw a TWM town flip. Right now it's pretty weak. Really there isn't anything that jumps out and screams scum to me, and overall I like his line of questioning/playing.
When I voted for TWM I had no intentions of lynching him. Just pushing the wagon a bit further and seeing what would happen. Looking back I did a pretty awful job of it since I only stayed on TWM for like 3 hours. It felt like a long time. And I saw the j Reggie case I was much more interested in pursuing. That being said, my read on TWM got steadily more and more scummy, I just didn't want to leave Reggie until he explained his plan.
Had I posted after the plan came out I think I very well may have abandoned j Reggie for TWM, making me one of the "scummy" (still not quite sure why) wagon jumpers. But I honestly don't know how that would have played out.
That being said, there was nothing special to reply to, I just thought I would give my side of the story. I do like what galzria is doing here, totally does not make him town, but might help him into a would not lynch category for today
-
can i not fuck up quotes just once.
1. there's no reason for scum to not lie about a draft to instead of refusing to tell. This is only true before i said this and now WIFOM is introduced
2. his point was that dead townies are the same as dead ICs.
I think there could have been wifom before you pointed it out. And I actually do think Reggie was implying that he thinks his plan makes him a soft IC even before dying.
I wasn't. But I should be an IC because I'm town.
Alright. I am back. vote: JReggie
I think this vote (after unvoting) is the scummiest on the lynch
-
Also, rr is town
-
Also, rr is town
But he's been lurky and scummy!!1
-
Also, rr is town
But he's been lurky and scummy!!1
I know, right? It's super confusing but true
-
Another note: pps seems very sane and rational this game. I am not sure what to make of it.
For some reason I always think of pps getting into trouble for super random stuff and then getting lynched for it as town. That isn't happening and I am perplexed as to what alignment pps is.
-
This might be off topic, but I'd bet all my coins in that weird d&d game that whoever got first bid went for the hammer hero, regardless of alignment.
I'll take the bet.
-
This might be off topic, but I'd bet all my coins in that weird d&d game that whoever got first bid went for the hammer hero, regardless of alignment.
I'll take the bet.
Me too
-
This might be off topic, but I'd bet all my coins in that weird d&d game that whoever got first bid went for the hammer hero, regardless of alignment.
I'll take the bet.
Me too
I am not splitting his money with you.
-
This is super dope, I'm about to get a bunch of fake currency.
I was gonna look at Calamitas's interactions but 4 people already did that. Big games. I'll establish some reads I guess, but I won't make them public.
-
This might be off topic, but I'd bet all my coins in that weird d&d game that whoever got first bid went for the hammer hero, regardless of alignment.
I'll take the bet.
Me too
I am not splitting his money with you.
I'll take 22%
-
This might be off topic, but I'd bet all my coins in that weird d&d game that whoever got first bid went for the hammer hero, regardless of alignment.
I'll take the bet.
Me too
I am not splitting his money with you.
I'll take 22%
K
-
can i not fuck up quotes just once.
1. there's no reason for scum to not lie about a draft to instead of refusing to tell. This is only true before i said this and now WIFOM is introduced
2. his point was that dead townies are the same as dead ICs.
I think there could have been wifom before you pointed it out. And I actually do think Reggie was implying that he thinks his plan makes him a soft IC even before dying.
I wasn't. But I should be an IC because I'm town.
Alright. I am back. vote: JReggie
I think this vote (after unvoting) is the scummiest on the lynch
wize?
-
This is super dope, I'm about to get a bunch of fake currency.
I was gonna look at Calamitas's interactions but 4 people already did that. Big games. I'll establish some reads I guess, but I won't make them public.
But are you going to vote?
-
This is super dope, I'm about to get a bunch of fake currency.
I was gonna look at Calamitas's interactions but 4 people already did that. Big games. I'll establish some reads I guess, but I won't make them public.
But are you going to vote?
No, that would be making them public ::)
-
This is super dope, I'm about to get a bunch of fake currency.
I was gonna look at Calamitas's interactions but 4 people already did that. Big games. I'll establish some reads I guess, but I won't make them public.
...why not make them public? I can't think of any reason why you shouldn't, and I can think of several that you should.
-
This is super dope, I'm about to get a bunch of fake currency.
I was gonna look at Calamitas's interactions but 4 people already did that. Big games. I'll establish some reads I guess, but I won't make them public.
...why not make them public? I can't think of any reason why you shouldn't, and I can think of several that you should.
I dunno, I probably will. Don't pressure me dude.
-
I mean. You can do what you want. However, in NM9 I felt that you had pretty good votes throughout (aside from your tunneling of Jake). I would like to hear who you would like to lynch. Plus I think it will help me (and probably others) get a better read on you, which if you are town, you should want.
-
I mean. You can do what you want. However, in NM9 I felt that you had pretty good votes throughout (aside from your tunneling of Jake). I would like to hear who you would like to lynch. Plus I think it will help me (and probably others) get a better read on you, which if you are town, you should want.
Thanks man. This is also giving me a chance to read the D1 stuff I never read.
-
O, how strong of a player do you think I am?
-
Reads
A lot of the time I slap reads together, but instead I’m gonna give points. You get 1 to 10 points based on scummy action, and -1 to -10 points based on towny action. Lurking counts as nothing, so that’s cool. I’ll show my work too.
Space 1,
LaLight 2 3 1 1 1 4 5 1 5 1 1
Iguanaiguana-0 -1 -1 -2
Cuzz -1 -1 -1 -1 1 1 -2 1 2 1 2
O 1 -1 1 -1 1 -1 -2 2 1 1
2.7 -2 1 -1
Mcmcsalot 2 2 1 3 5
PPS -1 -3 -1
Andrew 1
TWM 2 -1 -1 3 1 1 1
Eevee 3 1 1 1
Jake 2 1
Faust -1 1 6 4 1 2
Ashersky -1 -1 1 -1 -1
Awaclus -4
I only got through page 23, but let’s assess.
So:
Lalight: 25
Mcmcsalot: 13
Faust: 13
TWM: 6
Eevee: 6
Jake: 3
Cuzz: 2
O: 2
Space: 1
Andrew: 1
2.7: -2
Ashersky: -3
Iguanaiguana: -4
Awaclus: -4
PPS: -5
Vote LaLight. As Calamitas would say, 'numbers don't lie.'
-
Cute
-
O seems super different from his D1 presentation. Everyone so far seems the same.
How so? I don't disagree but I'd like elaboration regardless.
O, how strong of a player do you think I am?
Why am I being asked after not being in the conversation???
Frankly I have no clue, you're 1/20 people here and are roughly in the middle of post density. I haven't read any mafia games I wasn't in except M99 for a bit. If I extrapolate from that I can conclude that Eevee is terrible at mafia, and not much else. :P
I have some opinions on who I think is good and not, but I see no use to stating them beyond flamebait. But rest assured you're not within those opinions.
-
O are you voting for someone right now?
-
O, would you consider white knighting/buddying me if you were scum and I was town?
-
O, would you consider white knighting/buddying me if you were scum and I was town?
if you were town?
-
O, would you consider white knighting/buddying me if you were scum and I was town?
if you were town?
Ugh. You are so townie and then you key on things like this for some reason.
-
O, would you consider white knighting/buddying me if you were scum and I was town?
if you were town?
Ugh. You are so townie and then you key on things like this for some reason.
What do you mean?
-
O, would you consider white knighting/buddying me if you were scum and I was town?
Probably? If I were scum I'd probably post less overall (though still a lot) and pick a few to hard-focus as scum.
O are you voting for someone right now?
Space, because the way they put themselves thru the scum perspective was quite fishy to me, mostly was sheeping.. LaLights argument? I think.
-
O, would you consider white knighting/buddying me if you were scum and I was town?
if you were town?
Ugh. You are so townie and then you key on things like this for some reason.
What do you mean?
I mean. That we all know that the "if I was town" makes it look like RR is implying that he isn't town right now. But clearly he isn't saying that. He is creating a hypothetical for O who doesn't know whether RR is town or not. So it isn't an indication of alignment at all. At there is little no value to pointing it out. Certainly much less than whatever it was that you were giving me a bunch of shit about earlier today.
-
O, would you consider white knighting/buddying me if you were scum and I was town?
if you were town?
Ugh. You are so townie and then you key on things like this for some reason.
What do you mean?
He placed the conditional on me being scum not on him being town, so this is about the worst attempt at a "scumslip" in existence.
-
O, would you consider white knighting/buddying me if you were scum and I was town?
if you were town?
I would've gotten away with it if it wasn't for you meddling kids!
-
Wow. Not sure if Cuzz is pointing stuff out like that because he's trying to find things to frame others or if he just doesn't have any idea what to expect playing with RR.
Anyway, I'm going to bed now, but tomorrow I'm going to start reading some of the individuals that seem most likely to be scum (or at least easiest to determine whether or not they are scum). Stay tuned.
I do want to point out, I don't know why people are saying my so-called inactivity was scummy. I was active--not leading in the posts counts, but I was at least in the middle third--then had a stated VLA that lasted into N1 since the day ended early. FoS on people using that as a lazy crutch to fabricate a read.
-
Reads
A lot of the time I slap reads together, but instead I’m gonna give points. You get 1 to 10 points based on scummy action, and -1 to -10 points based on towny action. Lurking counts as nothing, so that’s cool. I’ll show my work too.
Except, lurking counts as everything the way you are making these reads. The more you post, the more opportunity you have to do both townie or scummy things. LaLight only has a score that high because he is very active (and scummy according to you).
Andrew has done only scummy things.... But it was just one thing so he is 6th from the bottom.
I do like this technique of yours, now just go back and create a hyperlink to the post for each score and it would be perfect
-
Reads
A lot of the time I slap reads together, but instead I’m gonna give points. You get 1 to 10 points based on scummy action, and -1 to -10 points based on towny action. Lurking counts as nothing, so that’s cool. I’ll show my work too.
Space 1,
LaLight 2 3 1 1 1 4 5 1 5 1 1
Iguanaiguana-0 -1 -1 -2
Cuzz -1 -1 -1 -1 1 1 -2 1 2 1 2
O 1 -1 1 -1 1 -1 -2 2 1 1
2.7 -2 1 -1
Mcmcsalot 2 2 1 3 5
PPS -1 -3 -1
Andrew 1
TWM 2 -1 -1 3 1 1 1
Eevee 3 1 1 1
Jake 2 1
Faust -1 1 6 4 1 2
Ashersky -1 -1 1 -1 -1
Awaclus -4
I only got through page 23, but let’s assess.
So:
Lalight: 25
Mcmcsalot: 13
Faust: 13
TWM: 6
Eevee: 6
Jake: 3
Cuzz: 2
O: 2
Space: 1
Andrew: 1
2.7: -2
Ashersky: -3
Iguanaiguana: -4
Awaclus: -4
PPS: -5
Vote LaLight. As Calamitas would say, 'numbers don't lie.'
Why is only 15 people here? Where is Dylan and Galzria?
-
I think there is a distinction between "let's not lynch the most active players" and "let's lynch a lurker". I would have guessed that Reggie would have been on the lower half of post count, which i would guess has a higher than average amount of scum. The reggie vote was prettt much just wagoning someone i thought wasn't towny, which is also why i unvoted later - it was a flimsy vote and i didn't want to see that lynch go through in the end.
The buddying is just me legitimately thinking it's so cool to play with you after all this time.
I frankly doubt there is any evidence to support this.
-
faust - Null. Seems a little less present than usual.
Unfortunately, the number of players in this games means the ratio of faust posts per total posts drops.
I have also been consciously not posting stuff that did not seem very helpful.
-
So basically iguana is suspicious of those playing the game. Most suspicious of those most playing the game. Those that aren't really playing at all are probably town and should be allowed to play one day.
Really I like that better than the plethora of people who suggest it's the other way around.
-
This might be off topic, but I'd bet all my coins in that weird d&d game that whoever got first bid went for the hammer hero, regardless of alignment.
I'll take the bet.
Me too
I am not splitting his money with you.
I'll take 22%
I'll take 90-93%. That's the tax on fake currency bets in the forum games subforum.
-
Was there a reason the results from N1 might have surprised you?
Have have not forgotten this by the way, I'm just not sure yet if and what I want to respond.
-
I have also been consciously not posting stuff that did not seem very helpful.
I don't think we can be friends
-
*****Conclusion Here, Read fully if you desire***
I really don't like how Eevee has tied himself to me throughout d1. Between posts #245, and #977, combined with the sheeping onto Reggie and LaLight I do feel like he's setting me up to be a mislynch/Vig target should he ever die (assuming he flips scum). If he's town, I don't really know how to explain his play. - I'm definitely more in the scum!Eevee camp than I am in town!Eevee camp based off what I see below though.
****************************************
I have certain doubts that such an amount of planning goes into many players' scum play (planning to make a townie look like scum in case you flip), and in particular I don't think it is something scum!Eevee would do.
-
I really don't like how Dylan got on the Reggie wagon, and I like even less that, knowing he was behind (but being aware enough to ask if he should unvote), he didn't do anything. How would it have hurt to actually unvote if he was unsure? Especially because he never gave anything that suggested super confidence in the vote placement to begin with.
Vote: Dylan for now. This may change as I continue my trek through the wagon - but it's definitely high up on my scum read right now.
I don't think there's much to say about Dylan's Reggie vote, it seems like pressure mostly. As to how it would have hurt to unvote: In general it's always better to have your vote placed somewhere than not because it moves the game forward.
I know I thought Dylan might be scummy lurking during D1, but then I reread and there's a note in my QT saying he's town.
-
Also, in general, I don't like how much he posts conclusions and compared to how little he asks questions. I mean, it's easy to solve something when you already know the answers.
From what I recall (though I just played a single game with him before and that was some 4 years ago), that is just his playstyle.
-
/tag
-
Fancy rebuttal
I do not trust the way that you are able to put a super-complentary-towards-yourself spin on everything related to you. The effect is suspicious, because you are taking something you DID, vote for Reggie with a case that looked strong and lead to his lynch, without actually being ON that lynch -- and then you are trying to take all the scumminess away with things that you have SAID-your supposed townie motivations for your actions.
I fully admit that your rebuttal appears stronger than my case. But the fact that I feel verbally outmatched does nothing to derail the strength of my conviction. I should have stuck with this yesterday:
Vote: Galzria
I don't want to let this guy Sherlock town into the dirt.
At least until something more convincing comes along, I'm sticking with it today.
Cue the hordes of people who will join me on this sensible quest.
Given my lack of time, I will respond to things I notice as I go.
On this, the way you feel about Galzria's post, is exactly the way everyone felt back when Galzria played regularly. He's the sweet talker + smartest guy in the room a lot of the time. It used to hurt him when he was town back then, since scum!galz would use it to win and then we'd just not trust him.
All that to say it's less alignment-indicative than we'd like. Given he's been away for a long time and someone who's never played with him before noticed it, that at least confirms he's not a doppelgänger.
I think the key to catching scum!Galz was always reading between the lines; his posts will sweet-talk you or impress you into submission, so ignore the language and break down what he's saying into humanspeak.
-
O seems super different from his D1 presentation. Everyone so far seems the same.
How so? I don't disagree but I'd like elaboration regardless.
The easy answer is presence, I guess, but it's not really complete or indicative of my thinking. On Day 1 you made a big...effort? deal?...to both let everyone know what you used to be like and how you are different now. And other than the odd Awaclus interaction (which I'll chalk up to first-time Awaclus exposure (congrats, you are vaccinated now)), you were basically what you said you were going to be.
On top of that, D1 you were one of the most vocal, active players moving the game along, and generally town read (which made you uncomfortable).
D2, you've clearly been less active. You've also been less...nice? The sarcasm dial has been turned up, at least (with your reaction to the softclaim argument, for example).
You could just be sitting back and letting someone else do the heavy lifting for awhile, which is acceptable. You could just not be trying as hard to make whatever change you were trying to make on D1. Or it could be nothing.
-
O seems super different from his D1 presentation. Everyone so far seems the same.
How so? I don't disagree but I'd like elaboration regardless.
The easy answer is presence, I guess, but it's not really complete or indicative of my thinking. On Day 1 you made a big...effort? deal?...to both let everyone know what you used to be like and how you are different now. And other than the odd Awaclus interaction (which I'll chalk up to first-time Awaclus exposure (congrats, you are vaccinated now)), you were basically what you said you were going to be.
On top of that, D1 you were one of the most vocal, active players moving the game along, and generally town read (which made you uncomfortable).
D2, you've clearly been less active. You've also been less...nice? The sarcasm dial has been turned up, at least (with your reaction to the softclaim argument, for example).
You could just be sitting back and letting someone else do the heavy lifting for awhile, which is acceptable. You could just not be trying as hard to make whatever change you were trying to make on D1. Or it could be nothing.
I agree with most of this except the lurking... not gonna postcount it but I think I've maintained a similar % of total posts, but everyone else is lurking a bit harder than yesterday. I don't think anything substantive has been said since the early part of today at all... at least my minimal reads haven't really changed.
-
I wouldn't (and didn't) say you were lurking, just that you seem less active D2 so far than you were D1. You were quick to respond, for example, to my post, but haven't been commenting on others in-between as you would have been yesterday.
-
Vote Count 2.3
Cuzz (2): faust, AndrewisFTTW
mcmcsalot (1): Jimmmmm
sudgy (1): The_Wine_Merchant
O (1): Awaclus
AndrewisFTTW (3): Cuzz, pingpongsam, 2.71828....
SpaceAnemone (4): LaLight, O, Eevee, Dylan32
The_Wine_Merchant (1): sudgy
Dylan23 (1): Galzria
Galzria (1): iguanaiguana
LaLight (1): RoadRunner7671
Not Voting (4): SpaceAnemone, mcmcsalot, ashersky, JaketheBaseballGod22
With 20 alive it takes just 10 to lynch. Day 2 ends on Sunday, May 28th, at 11:00 AM Forum Time.
-
I think the key to catching scum!Galz was always reading between the lines; his posts will sweet-talk you or impress you into submission, so ignore the language and break down what he's saying into humanspeak.
Frustrating response if you are trying to tell me that I didn't do that because I feel like that is the kernel of my case - his supposed reasoning is plausible but no amount of reasoning can explain away scummy waggoneering, especially if the person has a reputation for being able to talk himself out of anything.
-
I think the key to catching scum!Galz was always reading between the lines; his posts will sweet-talk you or impress you into submission, so ignore the language and break down what he's saying into humanspeak.
Frustrating response if you are trying to tell me that I didn't do that because I feel like that is the kernel of my case - his supposed reasoning is plausible but no amount of reasoning can explain away scummy waggoneering, especially if the person has a reputation for being able to talk himself out of anything.
One can argue it's the key to mislynching glazria as well.
-
Jimmmmmm can you please answer this at some point?
I want to know more about Jake and Jimmmm's votes for mcmc.
To both of you: What do you think about mcmc's mistake regarding the scum QT? Please read that carefully because I think it should be clearly accounted for if you truly believe he is scum.
-
Jake why did you unvote mcmc?
-
Also, in general, I don't like how much he posts conclusions and compared to how little he asks questions. I mean, it's easy to solve something when you already know the answers.
From what I recall (though I just played a single game with him before and that was some 4 years ago), that is just his playstyle.
faust you liked iguana's suspicion of Galz at the end of D1 and voted for him. what do you think now?
-
Also, in general, I don't like how much he posts conclusions and compared to how little he asks questions. I mean, it's easy to solve something when you already know the answers.
From what I recall (though I just played a single game with him before and that was some 4 years ago), that is just his playstyle.
faust you liked iguana's suspicion of Galz at the end of D1 and voted for him. what do you think now?
Things I would rather not discuss.
-
I've got things to discuss and I think now is probably as good a time as any to do that.
-
Also, in general, I don't like how much he posts conclusions and compared to how little he asks questions. I mean, it's easy to solve something when you already know the answers.
From what I recall (though I just played a single game with him before and that was some 4 years ago), that is just his playstyle.
faust you liked iguana's suspicion of Galz at the end of D1 and voted for him. what do you think now?
Things I would rather not discuss.
To be perfectly clear, I understand why you would want to do this, but a question for other people who have played with faust a lot: Does anyone remember faust actually playing stuff this close to his chest before? I'm trying to think back to games I've played with him, and even in town!PR!faust games nothing sticks out as far as him making a point of saying that he has stuff he doesn't want to say. While I am townreading faust, in the back of my mind I am curious if this is scum!faust acting like a PR to cement the townreads people have on him so that we don't push him towards a lynch.
-
@dylan I do think it was galz who first mentioned the night actions before faust ever said anything. So there is that.
-
@dylan I do think it was galz who first mentioned the night actions before faust ever said anything. So there is that.
huh?
-
@dylan I do think it was galz who first mentioned the night actions before faust ever said anything. So there is that.
huh?
Dylan is saying it's wierd faust isn't telling us about his actions and is saying he doesn't want to tell us things but I think galz first asked faust if faust wanted to talk about the night actions and faust said no. So it's not like faust said "I have night results but don't want to talk about it" out of the blue.
-
Was there a reason the results from N1 might have surprised you?
Have have not forgotten this by the way, I'm just not sure yet if and what I want to respond.
Yea galz brought it up first.
-
Second person: faust
I actually don't want to do faust right now because I have a very strong town read on him for reasons I don't wish to discuss.
faust, feel free to answer this or ignore it, but it'll confirm my belief and we can discuss it later if you wish:
Was there a reason the results from N1 might have surprised you?
Full quote from galz so yea I don't think it's wierd of faust nor do I think he's "holding things close to his chest" let them discuss when they feel is appropriate.
-
I am finding myself with very few strong town reads and a lot of suspicion on a lot of different people.
Ashersky hasn't done anything too townie or scummy, but that makes me suspect him
Galzria has only done townie things, but it is almost too good to be true (see the little conversation between ash and iguana)
In M98 I had a very strong (and accurate) town read on TWM, but I am just not getting the same vibes here, but nothing really and truly brings him over the edge to truly scummy.
I could go on, but I need to eat breakfast
PPEs happen
-
So while we should let people reveal things on their own time I think things are only going k get more obvious for scum and more dangerous to town as time goes on so here goes nothing.
I have run the scenarios through my head and I think it is in town's best interest for me to claim. I was hoping to be able to take the hammer much more inconspicuously than I did yesterday so as to trick scum into shooting me. Though the fact is the hammerhero was discussed waaay more than I thought it would be and I think it has become quite apparent to people what my role most likely is. The fact that scum knows they don't have the role cements it in their minds even more and the fact that I will be taking the hammer each day is also going to confirm to scum that I am in fact the town hammer hero.
The reason I think it is best to claim is because I want to be able to add my support to wagons and support my reads with votes but I am also going to be staying off wagons so that I can hammer. The goal of hammering is and always was to be an invincible town player. I chose deathproof last night and I will be wifoming scum eachnight from here on out however it is my thoughts that in most cases vigs shouldn't shoot till close to endgame or when the numbers make sense.
Now I can answer any questions people want of me. I can claim my draft order and all the slots I believed were taken before me and why I chose the hammer hero.
First I want to explain my plan for creating two unkillable town players. This involes the hider. If we allow me to have the hammer the hider can safely hide behind me making us both deathproof. This also serves the dual purpose of copping me because once the hider claims and hides behind me the next day they will still be alive and I will be confirmed town. I have looked at the slot motion detector/hider/gambler. I doubt scum has taken any of these roles though there is a slight chance a scum chose hider, I have not figured out a good way to guarantee the hider is town.
-
A scum!Hider cannot hide behind town without dying.
-
A scum!Hider cannot hide behind town without dying.
Oh yay! I didn't know that I though hider period died behind scum.
-
Why did you think it was so necessary to get the ability night one? Were you that worried about a NK attempt?
It could very well be that MCMC is town and scum attempted a shot on him and failed and we have a vig + SK/Werewolf kill on the board. In that situation claiming now was definitely the right move since mafia knows you're a PR anyways, if they didn't guess it from yesterday.
-
@dylan I do think it was galz who first mentioned the night actions before faust ever said anything. So there is that.
huh?
Dylan is saying it's wierd faust isn't telling us about his actions and is saying he doesn't want to tell us things but I think galz first asked faust if faust wanted to talk about the night actions and faust said no. So it's not like faust said "I have night results but don't want to talk about it" out of the blue.
faust actually started the day with one of the first few posts of D2 with this:
Hi! I'm still alive.
Calamitas looks like an SK shot? It's definitely more likely that there is one now. Or Werewolves I suppose.
There is something I may or may not want to talk about.
So faust made a point of it way before Galz's question.
PPE a few +2
-
I think the key to catching scum!Galz was always reading between the lines; his posts will sweet-talk you or impress you into submission, so ignore the language and break down what he's saying into humanspeak.
Frustrating response if you are trying to tell me that I didn't do that because I feel like that is the kernel of my case - his supposed reasoning is plausible but no amount of reasoning can explain away scummy waggoneering, especially if the person has a reputation for being able to talk himself out of anything.
I was just providing an observation as someone who played with the original Galz back in the day. I think you are clearly aware of the dangers of scum!galzria.
What you need to be careful of is making this characteristic of Galzria the player the "kernel of [your] case."
For anyone to say "This Galzria guy is a slick talker, he must be scum" isn't a good case; that's the same as saying "This Galzria guy is left-handed, he must be scum."
If his reasoning is plausible, it's plausible. If it isn't, or you think it is scum-manufactured, you need to focus on showing that. Arguing that "well, it's plausible but since Galz is a slick talker, it feels slimy and untrue" doesn't work.
In a bad attempt at an analogy, imagine the slickest used car salesperson you can, the ones who'll lie to sell you a lemon at a terrible price. It's a stereotype that works in this case. No matter what he says, you will mistrust it. Galzria is that salesman.
Now, if that salesman were to say "this here car is a beauty! Look at that red paint!" and the car is actually red, well you can't say he lied there, even if he said it in a lying way.
The way to catch scum!Galz is to find the lies, not the way he says them.
-
Any reason we should believe mcmc is town vs. scum hammer hero?
-
Any reason we should believe mcmc is town vs. scum hammer hero?
I think he should probably go ahead and claim draft order and if he got it from the original slot or one of the random ones.
-
Problems we might have with mcmc's plan:
- 1-shot Strongman. Hammer Hero says "completely safe", so this is not an issue I think? Robz, can you clarify?
- 1-shot Bus Driver. I am not sure on how Bus Driver & Hider would interact if they targeted the same player. Asking for clarification here as well.
I think that is all. Sounds good so far.
-
Any reason we should believe mcmc is town vs. scum hammer hero?
Yes, the Hider plan.
-
Any reason we should believe mcmc is town vs. scum hammer hero?
I would expect he'd attempt to use a kill last night, which would mean the normal scum kill would have had to been blocked in some way by random chance. Of course he could choose immunity to WIFOM after that.
Either way if we get a hider claim (unlikely IMO) we'd just know day 3 when we see a dead hider in the night.
-
Why did you think it was so necessary to get the ability night one? Were you that worried about a NK attempt?
Yes and no. Yes my plan from game start was to be a strong enough town player to draw a nightkill. No because I didn't think it would be such a big deal to hammer, I planned on being able to get the hammer in an much more inconspicuous way so that it wouldn't be so obvious I was a hammer hero. Then when jreggie said his stuff about self hammering I was legitimately thought no way a vt is so super worried about a scum!hammerhero he comes up with a plan day one to self hammer. So I thought this is definitely a scum player who knows they don't have a hammer hero and they are on the lookout and want to stop me from getting the hammer at all costs. So I though A) I want that hammer to be safe, B) I want to hammer scum, so let's do it.
Ppe 7
-
Any reason we should believe mcmc is town vs. scum hammer hero?
I think mcmc's mistake about the scum QT is too hard to fabricate.
Wackjob theory: mcmc is SK Hammer Hero. He had both NKs last night while mafia failed to kill him due to odd-night bulletproofing.
ppe: a few
-
MCMC could still claim and present this plan if his scumteam has any role from slot 10, but obviously once you put conditionals like that you accept that the default likely assumption is a town claim.
-
Problems we might have with mcmc's plan:
- 1-shot Strongman. Hammer Hero says "completely safe", so this is not an issue I think? Robz, can you clarify?
- 1-shot Bus Driver. I am not sure on how Bus Driver & Hider would interact if they targeted the same player. Asking for clarification here as well.
I think that is all. Sounds good so far.
Order of Operations
Commuting
Hammer Hero killing / self-protecting
Hiding
Lightning Rod activates
Bus Driving
Other actions happen simultaneously (Roleblocking takes priority over jailing if there’s a conflict)
After all else… Godfather-ing takes effect (does not register same night)
I would think the hider should be safe (given everything else)
Haven't fully thought through mcmc's plan yet though
-
While I don't think town would have actually taken the hider unless they got it from the fully random slot due to the general vibe I've gotten of it being a weak role, if we do have one, I don't think they should actually claim since them dying reveals the flip right? As long as they hide behind mcmc, if they survive tonight, they claim and we are happy, if they die, we assume mcmc was actually scum right? Of course that would hinge on the hider actually following through with the plan.
PPE 2
-
Problems we might have with mcmc's plan:
- 1-shot Strongman. Hammer Hero says "completely safe", so this is not an issue I think? Robz, can you clarify?
- 1-shot Bus Driver. I am not sure on how Bus Driver & Hider would interact if they targeted the same player. Asking for clarification here as well.
I think that is all. Sounds good so far.
I believe hammer hero is safe even from strongman kills, and Hider cannot be targeted by bus driver:
Order of Operations
Commuting
Hammer Hero killing / self-protecting
Hiding
Lightning Rod activates
Bus Driving
Other actions happen simultaneously (Roleblocking takes priority over jailing if there’s a conflict)
After all else… Godfather-ing takes effect (does not register same night)
ppe: e
-
Problems we might have with mcmc's plan:
- 1-shot Strongman. Hammer Hero says "completely safe", so this is not an issue I think? Robz, can you clarify?
- 1-shot Bus Driver. I am not sure on how Bus Driver & Hider would interact if they targeted the same player. Asking for clarification here as well.
I think that is all. Sounds good so far.
I have clarified both wit rob already but he can confirm. Hammerhero is completly unkillable, so Since I can't die the hider behind me can't die.
Also I cannot have my hammerhero protection bus driven off me. Hider hides before bus driver takes effect so the hider would already be hiding once the bus driver activated. All actions after that would be moved from me to whoever they bussdrove me toward.
Ppe 4
-
While I don't think town would have actually taken the hider unless they got it from the fully random slot due to the general vibe I've gotten of it being a weak role, if we do have one, I don't think they should actually claim since them dying reveals the flip right? As long as they hide behind mcmc, if they survive tonight, they claim and we are happy, if they die, we assume mcmc was actually scum right? Of course that would hinge on the hider actually following through with the plan.
PPE 2
Well the hider is unconditionally safe if MCMC is telling the truth and unconditionally dead if MCMC is lying, if we go through with the plan. So if you consider that a hider has far more credibility if they claim earlier i think claiming today would be better.
Also Hider isn't weak compared to the other two in slot ten really.. motion detector is blegh and gambler is hilarious but really weak also.
-
Any reason we should believe mcmc is town vs. scum hammer hero?
I think mcmc's mistake about the scum QT is too hard to fabricate.
Wackjob theory: mcmc is SK Hammer Hero. He had both NKs last night while mafia failed to kill him due to odd-night bulletproofing.
ppe: a few
No way does SK take hammer hero and attract that kind of attention.
I am inclined to believe mcmc is town with his claim/plan, but still not confident that his plan will work how he thinks it will.
-
While I don't think town would have actually taken the hider unless they got it from the fully random slot due to the general vibe I've gotten of it being a weak role, if we do have one, I don't think they should actually claim since them dying reveals the flip right? As long as they hide behind mcmc, if they survive tonight, they claim and we are happy, if they die, we assume mcmc was actually scum right? Of course that would hinge on the hider actually following through with the plan.
PPE 2
Well the hider is unconditionally safe if MCMC is telling the truth and unconditionally dead if MCMC is lying, if we go through with the plan. So if you consider that a hider has far more credibility if they claim earlier i think claiming today would be better.
Also Hider isn't weak compared to the other two in slot ten really.. motion detector is blegh and gambler is hilarious but really weak also.
What if mcmc and hider are both scum?
-
While I don't think town would have actually taken the hider unless they got it from the fully random slot due to the general vibe I've gotten of it being a weak role, if we do have one, I don't think they should actually claim since them dying reveals the flip right? As long as they hide behind mcmc, if they survive tonight, they claim and we are happy, if they die, we assume mcmc was actually scum right? Of course that would hinge on the hider actually following through with the plan.
PPE 2
Well the hider is unconditionally safe if MCMC is telling the truth and unconditionally dead if MCMC is lying, if we go through with the plan. So if you consider that a hider has far more credibility if they claim earlier i think claiming today would be better.
Also Hider isn't weak compared to the other two in slot ten really.. motion detector is blegh and gambler is hilarious but really weak also.
What if mcmc and hider are both scum?
Then the hider claiming still benefits us???
-
Anyway I don't think we should question mcmc before D3. I personally am ready to treat him as IC until it will be known there's no hider to backup his claim
Ppe: lots
-
I already addressed scum hider:
MCMC could still claim and present this plan if his scumteam has any role from slot 10, but obviously once you put conditionals like that you accept that the default likely assumption is a town claim.
I was specifically talking about hider claiming if we accept the plan.
-
While I don't think town would have actually taken the hider unless they got it from the fully random slot due to the general vibe I've gotten of it being a weak role, if we do have one, I don't think they should actually claim since them dying reveals the flip right? As long as they hide behind mcmc, if they survive tonight, they claim and we are happy, if they die, we assume mcmc was actually scum right? Of course that would hinge on the hider actually following through with the plan.
PPE 2
Well the hider is unconditionally safe if MCMC is telling the truth and unconditionally dead if MCMC is lying, if we go through with the plan. So if you consider that a hider has far more credibility if they claim earlier i think claiming today would be better.
Also Hider isn't weak compared to the other two in slot ten really.. motion detector is blegh and gambler is hilarious but really weak also.
What if mcmc and hider are both scum?
Then the hider claiming still benefits us???
I just mean that your assertion "the hider is unconditionally safe if MCMC is telling the truth and unconditionally dead if MCMC is lying" fails here.
-
Hider has built in cop utility belt telegraphing who they hid behind. It's by far the best role of that slot.
-
While I don't think town would have actually taken the hider unless they got it from the fully random slot due to the general vibe I've gotten of it being a weak role, if we do have one, I don't think they should actually claim since them dying reveals the flip right? As long as they hide behind mcmc, if they survive tonight, they claim and we are happy, if they die, we assume mcmc was actually scum right? Of course that would hinge on the hider actually following through with the plan.
PPE 2
Well the hider is unconditionally safe if MCMC is telling the truth and unconditionally dead if MCMC is lying, if we go through with the plan. So if you consider that a hider has far more credibility if they claim earlier i think claiming today would be better.
Also Hider isn't weak compared to the other two in slot ten really.. motion detector is blegh and gambler is hilarious but really weak also.
What if mcmc and hider are both scum?
Then the hider claiming still benefits us???
And yeah. While theoretically possible, I doubt scum wraps themselves up so tightly in a plot like that
-
I'll play.
Hard evidence is just phrase that Awaclus likes to hide behind.
I am the hider and I hid behind Awaclus last night, and lived. PS. Robz approved the above breadcrumb. I will hide behind mcmc so long as he gets the hammer and will take death proof.
If I survive the night this will confirm mcmc, myself and Awaclus as town, correct? Although I think there are some possibilities of Awaclus still being scum, such as him being a scum commuter? I am willing to die if it shows mcmc is scum.
-
While I don't think town would have actually taken the hider unless they got it from the fully random slot due to the general vibe I've gotten of it being a weak role, if we do have one, I don't think they should actually claim since them dying reveals the flip right? As long as they hide behind mcmc, if they survive tonight, they claim and we are happy, if they die, we assume mcmc was actually scum right? Of course that would hinge on the hider actually following through with the plan.
PPE 2
Well the hider is unconditionally safe if MCMC is telling the truth and unconditionally dead if MCMC is lying, if we go through with the plan. So if you consider that a hider has far more credibility if they claim earlier i think claiming today would be better.
Also Hider isn't weak compared to the other two in slot ten really.. motion detector is blegh and gambler is hilarious but really weak also.
Random idea that could be added to the plan. If we have a town inventor somehow and a hider claims today, give the hider a neighbor item today so mcmc and the hider can be unkillable neighbors for the rest of the game.
PPE 4 + some
-
Mcmcsalot did you have first pick overall?
-
Problems we might have with mcmc's plan:
- 1-shot Strongman. Hammer Hero says "completely safe", so this is not an issue I think? Robz, can you clarify?
- 1-shot Bus Driver. I am not sure on how Bus Driver & Hider would interact if they targeted the same player. Asking for clarification here as well.
I think that is all. Sounds good so far.
Strongman cannot kill the Hammer Hero if the Hammer Hero chooses protection.
Hider and Hammer Hero both resolve before Bus Driver takes effect, so the Bus Driver won't impact either of their actions.
-
Actions directed toward me won't affect me, as I will be hiding.
-
Actions directed toward me won't affect me, as I will be hiding.
Nice
-
I'll play.
Hard evidence is just phrase that Awaclus likes to hide behind.
I am the hider and I hid behind Awaclus last night, and lived. PS. Robz approved the above breadcrumb. I will hide behind mcmc so long as he gets the hammer and will take death proof.
If I survive the night this will confirm mcmc, myself and Awaclus as town, correct? Although I think there are some possibilities of Awaclus still being scum, such as him being a scum commuter? I am willing to die if it shows mcmc is scum.
Sweet.
-
I'll play.
Hard evidence is just phrase that Awaclus likes to hide behind.
I am the hider and I hid behind Awaclus last night, and lived. PS. Robz approved the above breadcrumb. I will hide behind mcmc so long as he gets the hammer and will take death proof.
If I survive the night this will confirm mcmc, myself and Awaclus as town, correct? Although I think there are some possibilities of Awaclus still being scum, such as him being a scum commuter? I am willing to die if it shows mcmc is scum.
That's a very bad claim
-
Mcmcsalot did you have first pick overall?
Don't need to claim this yet I think.
-
Actions directed toward me won't affect me, as I will be hiding.
Oh yay I also don't have to scumread you anymore this is getting better and better!
-
I'll play.
Hard evidence is just phrase that Awaclus likes to hide behind.
I am the hider and I hid behind Awaclus last night, and lived. PS. Robz approved the above breadcrumb. I will hide behind mcmc so long as he gets the hammer and will take death proof.
If I survive the night this will confirm mcmc, myself and Awaclus as town, correct? Although I think there are some possibilities of Awaclus still being scum, such as him being a scum commuter? I am willing to die if it shows mcmc is scum.
That's a very bad claim
scum ^
-
awaclus is the confirmed death tonight, and if he's a pr you messed it up a little
-
I'll play.
Hard evidence is just phrase that Awaclus likes to hide behind.
I am the hider and I hid behind Awaclus last night, and lived. PS. Robz approved the above breadcrumb. I will hide behind mcmc so long as he gets the hammer and will take death proof.
If I survive the night this will confirm mcmc, myself and Awaclus as town, correct? Although I think there are some possibilities of Awaclus still being scum, such as him being a scum commuter? I am willing to die if it shows mcmc is scum.
That's a very bad claim
Why? The plan works. Robz resolved the above concerns.
-
Mcmcsalot did you have first pick overall?
Don't need to claim this yet I think.
Yea i don't think this is necessary now.
-
Next time i will make one post instead of two, i thought it was obvious why it is a bad claim
-
awaclus is the confirmed death tonight, and if he's a pr you messed it up a little
I guess yea, claiming you hid behind awaclus wasn't necessary. But he did already say that he had reason to believe awaclus was town so scum could probably figure it out.
-
Mcmcsalot did you have first pick overall?
Don't need to claim this yet I think.
It's for my bet
-
awaclus is the confirmed death tonight, and if he's a pr you messed it up a little
I guess yea, claiming you hid behind awaclus wasn't necessary. But he did already say that he had reason to believe awaclus was town so scum could probably figure it out.
And that's why he shouldn't have claimed on the first place because there was literally no reason teo, but well
-
awaclus is the confirmed death tonight, and if he's a pr you messed it up a little
I guess yea, claiming you hid behind awaclus wasn't necessary. But he did already say that he had reason to believe awaclus was town so scum could probably figure it out.
Meh. Awaclus might be the NK. He might not be. WIFOM. I don't want to talk too much about it due to likely two scum teams. And hey, there are other roles out there. Like he would make a good doctor choice if we have one, maybe we do, maybe we don't.
-
awaclus is the confirmed death tonight, and if he's a pr you messed it up a little
How is Awaclus a confirmed death? Does your scumteam know we lack a doctor/jailkeeper or that you have a strongman?
This is a risk inherent to IDing others as town regardless. But its still beneficial to identify others as town, often.
-
awaclus is the confirmed death tonight, and if he's a pr you messed it up a little
How is Awaclus a confirmed death? Does your scumteam know we lack a doctor/jailkeeper or that you have a strongman?
This is a risk inherent to IDing others as town regardless. But its still beneficial to identify others as town, often.
Exactly. If he is a PR he is a PR. If he isn't, great, a VT was killed instead. Hooray! WIFOM hurts mafia here more than the info helps them I think.
-
awaclus is the confirmed death tonight, and if he's a pr you messed it up a little
Also doctors and stuff, and now maybe both sk/werewolf and mafia both shoot awac. I don't think this is that bad.
Ppe: O gets it!
-
And I did think about not claiming and just hiding behind mcmcsalot. But I worried that others might not automatically assume that I hid behind mcmc in the possibility that I died. This is a pretty clear cut thing that we can gain good solid info on and I didn't want any of that up in the air or possibly being confused.
-
And I did think about not claiming and just hiding behind mcmcsalot. But I worried that others might not automatically assume that I hid behind mcmc in the possibility that I died. This is a pretty clear cut thing that we can gain good solid info on and I didn't want any of that up in the air or possibly being confused.
It also saves us the time I was gonna spend continuing to scum read you lol.
-
Yeah this actually just took a fantastic turn for town. 2 essentially unkillable ICs + one likely IC without outing a single PR that can be killed on D2 is awesome!
PPE 1
-
Has anybody thought about the possibility that a slot wasn't taken?
Also I really like this plan
-
So there is also an outside chance twm is scum and pretending to hide behind me for the towncred but I think that's extremely unlikely given what twm has said/done.
-
I've been spam texting my brother #fiveunkillableicsthedream since I got this power and developed this plan. #winthroughstrenghtnotthroughsmarts
-
I think TWM should be the L-1 vote for any wagon, and coordinate with MCMC so they vote in quick succession (coordinate in thread, not advocating cheating).
Scum could 1. sacrifice themselves to break up the plan and get PR kills or 2. Hopefully be the one we're wagoning regardless, and we need to try and avoid the self hammer.
This is why hammer hero is a slightly MEH role to include, for future reference @Robz, forces a bit too much metagaming like this.
-
I think TWM should be the L-1 vote for any wagon, and coordinate with MCMC so they vote in quick succession (coordinate in thread, not advocating cheating).
Scum could 1. sacrifice themselves to break up the plan and get PR kills or 2. Hopefully be the one we're wagoning regardless, and we need to try and avoid the self hammer.
This is why hammer hero is a slightly MEH role to include, for future reference @Robz, forces a bit too much metagaming like this.
So if we have an inventor, give one of mcmc or twm the neighbor item so they can have a permanent QT to coordinate in
-
I think TWM should be the L-1 vote for any wagon, and coordinate with MCMC so they vote in quick succession (coordinate in thread, not advocating cheating).
Scum could 1. sacrifice themselves to break up the plan and get PR kills or 2. Hopefully be the one we're wagoning regardless, and we need to try and avoid the self hammer.
This is why hammer hero is a slightly MEH role to include, for future reference @Robz, forces a bit too much metagaming like this.
So if we have an inventor, give one of mcmc or twm the neighbor item so they can have a permanent QT to coordinate in
I think this is a fantastic idea. Me and twm can shadow vote: playername to indicate where we are pushing our scum reads and those should be treated as votes that will be posted upon reaching what would otherwise be a lynch or l-2.
-
Although to be fair, Role Cop and Watcher were probably both would have been taken before inventor, so probably would have been someone who got a random slot.
-
Hmm... I've missed a But!
I'm trying to think of ways this fails us, and the best I can come up with is:
If Mcmc & TWM are scum partners, we're handing them the game. They'll effectively be unlynchable (due to perceived IC status), and Unkillable at night.
That said, I definitely believe that's significantly less likely than them being town.
Does this semi-solve the game?
At most there are 6 scum left (4 mafia/2 WW). Even if they coordinate together in thread with all 6 alive, they would need to control half the town to prevent mcmc/TWM from working. That's 6 spots with 12 players alive.
Right now there are 20 players. That gives us 8 "spare" before we're at that point - and that assumes that between now and then no scum die.
Further, it would require all scum to openly out themselves and work together at that point - which seems unlikely.
I -think- town more or less locks this up with this combo-claim. Caveat from above on them not being scum buddies of course.
-
A lot* is what I missed, not a But.
-
One more thing needs clarification.
If the Hider hides behind a player that is protected from a nightkill, and that player is targeted by a nightkill, will the Hider die?
I don't agree with Robz' understanding of night action resolution I think, but that's not really important.
-
Updated
Vote Count 1.12
mcmcsalot (1): RoadRunner7671
J Reggie (10): 2.7128...., Dylan32, gkrieg13, LaLight, JaketheBaseballGod22, sudgy, iguanaiguana, SpaceAnemone, The_Wine_Merchant, mcmcsalot
The_Wine_Merchant (1): ashersky
O (1): Awaclus
gkrieg13 (1): AndrewisFTTW
RoadRunner7671 (1): Cuzz
LaLight (2): Galzria, pingpongsam
Galzria (2): J Reggie, faust
Awaclus (2): O, Eevee
Not Voting (2): Calamitas, Jimmmmm
With 23 alive it took just 10 to lynch.
-
One more thing needs clarification.
If the Hider hides behind a player that is protected from a nightkill, and that player is targeted by a nightkill, will the Hider die?
I don't agree with Robz' understanding of night action resolution I think, but that's not really important.
Again I've clarified with him already but he can confirm. Unless I die the hider doesn't die. No matter what I am targeted with. Since no matter what I am targeted with I cannot die, the hider cannot die.
-
One more thing needs clarification.
If the Hider hides behind a player that is protected from a nightkill, and that player is targeted by a nightkill, will the Hider die?
I don't agree with Robz' understanding of night action resolution I think, but that's not really important.
The Hider can only die if the player he hid behind dies, or is aligned with a different faction.
-
I'm not seeing how anything is locked up either way....
If they're scum, alignment cops can still exist?
If they're town, and we keep missing scum, Scum can still eventually control the town to lynch?
-
Admittedly I kinda want this plan to not work because I don't want this game to be broken.
-
Admittedly I kinda want this plan to not work because I don't want this game to be broken.
And I am strangely confused by how Robz rules this because there are definitely loopholes he could have taken to prevent this.
-
vote: Faust
-
vote: Faust
::)
-
You sound a bit too upset at the combo :P
-
You sound a bit too upset at the combo :P
And of course I would throw out all my frustration in the main thread instead of my QT because I'm such a hilariously awful mafia player!
-
I mean I could see this vote coming from a mile away, but I didn't think someone like O would be the one to do it.
-
You sound a bit too upset at the combo :P
And of course I would throw out all my frustration in the main thread instead of my QT because I'm such a hilariously awful mafia player!
I prefer to think of it as "I never suspected O's superior scumhunting skills would latch onto it, so I thought it was safe to say".
I mean I could see this vote coming from a mile away, but I didn't think someone like O would be the one to do it.
I don't see where this comes from, I've been throwing my vote around pretty liberally I thought.
-
I am town and kind of agree with faust, so I don't think he's scum for saying it. I think these things make the game a little less fun, but it's definitely not solved or locked up yet.
-
I am town and kind of agree with faust, so I don't think he's scum for saying it. I think these things make the game a little less fun, but it's definitely not solved or locked up yet.
I can agree with Faust that Hammer-Hero is possibly a poorly designed role and still think he's lashing out in frustration
-
You sound a bit too upset at the combo :P
And of course I would throw out all my frustration in the main thread instead of my QT because I'm such a hilariously awful mafia player!
I prefer to think of it as "I never suspected O's superior scumhunting skills would latch onto it, so I thought it was safe to say".
I mean I could see this vote coming from a mile away, but I didn't think someone like O would be the one to do it.
I don't see where this comes from, I've been throwing my vote around pretty liberally I thought.
Well yes but I kinda assumed you would do it with more sense.
-
I'm not seeing how anything is locked up either way....
If they're scum, alignment cops can still exist?
If they're town, and we keep missing scum, Scum can still eventually control the town to lynch?
Not locked. Semi Locked.
IF there's a 15-5 ratio for town/scum right now, the average game could dwindle to 3-1 (MyLo). This can't. With this setup that's a loss for scum. They need a significantly better ratio. And that means their losses between now and then need to be well above average.
Extrapolated out to where we're at now, if it's a 15-5 split, they would need 10 dead town in a row to get to a point where they can stop Mcmc/TWM.
It's not impossible, and I don't expect them to give up - but it's very unlikely scum can win at this point.
I'm not suggesting we just start systematically lynching, but it does put things heavily, heavily in our favor - and that's a little broken to me. Hence, "semi-solved".
-
I am town and kind of agree with faust, so I don't think he's scum for saying it. I think these things make the game a little less fun, but it's definitely not solved or locked up yet.
I can agree with Faust that Hammer-Hero is possibly a poorly designed role and still think he's lashing out in frustration
I wouldn't call it lagging out in frustration if Faust is in fact scum. Rather, I think it would be a very calculated play working the "fun" factor. I definitely don't think it is an alignment tell.
That being said, IC creation won't win the game, finding scum will. I wish we could have waited at least one more day to create our ICs, but I agree with mcmc that due to the situation surrounding the D1 hammer a claim was a good call.
-
It is kinda unfortunate that this only clears players I already thought were town anyway. Though it shows off my superior scumhunting skills, so that's nice.
It also means that all major D1 wagons were on town. That makes wagon analysis significantly less useful, and I think it means we should focus on people that were avoiding commitment.
-
It is kinda unfortunate that this only clears players I already thought were town anyway. Though it shows off my superior scumhunting skills, so that's nice.
It also means that all major D1 wagons were on town. That makes wagon analysis significantly less useful, and I think it means we should focus on people that were avoiding commitment.
ooh ooh me. I was avoiding commitment.
also superior d1 scumhunting skills is still a scumtell.
-
It is kinda unfortunate that this only clears players I already thought were town anyway. Though it shows off my superior scumhunting skills, so that's nice.
It also means that all major D1 wagons were on town. That makes wagon analysis significantly less useful, and I think it means we should focus on people that were avoiding commitment.
Someone like, let's say, Andrew? Seems like a good idea to me
-
So who do we want to lynch now? I do have a suspicion that most of the more active players in this game are town.
Andrew and Jimmmmm are my top choices at the moment. Eevee, sudgy and ash are possibilities also. Could also be talked into iguana and Jake.
-
So who do we want to lynch now? I do have a suspicion that most of the more active players in this game are town.
Andrew and Jimmmmm are my top choices at the moment. Eevee, sudgy and ash are possibilities also. Could also be talked into iguana and Jake.
I'll vote for any of Cuzz's options plus Lalight, Faust, Space and Galzria.
Particularly for Galzria I think if Eevee's scum Galzria is likely scum.
-
I like Galzria for scum here
-
Andrew and Jimmmmm are my top choices at the moment. Eevee, sudgy and ash are possibilities also. Could also be talked into iguana and Jake.
What is your read on Jimmmmm based on?
-
I just barely caught up and have to go again, but wow! That's pretty good! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjUqUVrXclE) I'll try to do more later today, if possible. I was thinking about doing a whole bunch of work to reassess my TWM read but now I don't have to! Yay!
-
Oh yeah, Unvote.
-
Andrew and Jimmmmm are my top choices at the moment. Eevee, sudgy and ash are possibilities also. Could also be talked into iguana and Jake.
What is your read on Jimmmmm based on?
lurking and dodging questions
-
Andrew and Jimmmmm are my top choices at the moment. Eevee, sudgy and ash are possibilities also. Could also be talked into iguana and Jake.
What is your read on Jimmmmm based on?
lurking and dodging questions
So nothing that is in any way alignment-indicative for him?
-
Andrew and Jimmmmm are my top choices at the moment. Eevee, sudgy and ash are possibilities also. Could also be talked into iguana and Jake.
What is your read on Jimmmmm based on?
lurking and dodging questions
So nothing that is in any way alignment-indicative for him?
for him? how would I know?
-
Andrew and Jimmmmm are my top choices at the moment. Eevee, sudgy and ash are possibilities also. Could also be talked into iguana and Jake.
What is your read on Jimmmmm based on?
lurking and dodging questions
So nothing that is in any way alignment-indicative for him?
for him? how would I know?
it's ok that you disagree with me wanting to thin out the lurkers, but you don't have to be so shocked every time I propose it.
-
It is kinda unfortunate that this only clears players I already thought were town anyway. Though it shows off my superior scumhunting skills, so that's nice.
It also means that all major D1 wagons were on town. That makes wagon analysis significantly less useful, and I think it means we should focus on people that were avoiding commitment.
--PPE everything beyond this quoted post--
Yes, this was exactly my thinking.
-
I'm not sure if I already was but Vote: Andrew
also, I think, Sheep: mcmcsalot
-
Ok just caught up.
So who do we want to lynch now? I do have a suspicion that most of the more active players in this game are town.
Andrew and Jimmmmm are my top choices at the moment. Eevee, sudgy and ash are possibilities also. Could also be talked into iguana and Jake.
So basically OMGUS and "lynch all lurkers". Super lazy/scummy. Still like my vote on Cuzz.
Also I found O's vote on faust scummy as well.
-
Andrew and Jimmmmm are my top choices at the moment. Eevee, sudgy and ash are possibilities also. Could also be talked into iguana and Jake.
What is your read on Jimmmmm based on?
lurking and dodging questions
So nothing that is in any way alignment-indicative for him?
for him? how would I know?
it's ok that you disagree with me wanting to thin out the lurkers, but you don't have to be so shocked every time I propose it.
I would be fine if you proposed policy lynches on lurkers. But you imply that the people who post more are more likely to be town, and that seems questionable given the complete lack of evidence provided.
-
Hammer Hero Countdown 2.1
Cuzz (2): faust, AndrewisFTTW
mcmcsalot (1): Jimmmmm
sudgy (1): The_Wine_Merchant
O (1): Awaclus
AndrewisFTTW (3): Cuzz, pingpongsam, 2.71828....
SpaceAnemone (3): LaLight, Eevee, Dylan32
Dylan23 (1): Galzria
Galzria (1): iguanaiguana
LaLight (1): RoadRunner7671
Faust (1): O
Not Voting (4): SpaceAnemone, mcmcsalot, ashersky, JaketheBaseballGod22, sudgy
With 20 alive it takes just 10 to lynch. Day 2 ends on Sunday, May 28th, at 11:00 AM Forum Time.
I would suggest we put l-X after every vote so that no one accidentally allows scum to steal the hammer.
-
O you moved from space to Faust which one do you actually find scummier?
-
You should also keep us posted about your deadline availability.
-
Hammer Hero Countdown 2.1
Cuzz (2): faust, AndrewisFTTW
mcmcsalot (1): Jimmmmm
sudgy (1): The_Wine_Merchant
O (1): Awaclus
AndrewisFTTW (3): Cuzz, pingpongsam, 2.71828....
SpaceAnemone (3): LaLight, Eevee, Dylan32
Dylan23 (1): Galzria
Galzria (1): iguanaiguana
LaLight (1): RoadRunner7671
Faust (1): O
Not Voting (4): SpaceAnemone, mcmcsalot, ashersky, JaketheBaseballGod22, sudgy
With 20 alive it takes just 10 to lynch. Day 2 ends on Sunday, May 28th, at 11:00 AM Forum Time.
I would suggest we put l-X after every vote so that no one accidentally allows scum to steal the hammer.
In the future, do not color these. Colored text is reserved for the mod. This could easily be mistaken for an official vote count.
-
mcmc, who do you most want to lynch today?
-
O you moved from space to Faust which one do you actually find scummier?
Space
-
As far as I can tell currently I should be able to be around entirely through deadline. Twm how about you?
-
In the future, do not color these. Colored text is reserved for the mod. This could easily be mistaken for an official vote count.
Sorry will do!
-
eevee/lalight I am curious to hear your cases on space, or you can direct me to quotes or tell me to find it if you made a conscice case already.
Roadrunner I'm curious about your case on lalight?
-
mcmc, who do you most want to lynch today?
I've still have my town reads of you/2.7/pps and I've still got scum reads on galz/eevee/andrew.
But I was most likely wrong on twm and some of my galz/eevee cases were being bolstered by a scum!twm narrative so I'm expanding my scum net and want to read more people's cases.
-
Just to reiterate an alignment cop in twm would confirm that he is town thus also confirming he is hider and I am town hammer hero.
A rolecop on twm would at least confirm twm and I are hider/hammer hero.
A tracker/watcher/motion detector would at least confirm twm is targeting me.
Not saying any of these things need to happen, I was just going through the roles and figuring everything out for absolute confirmation.
-
Neat. So I guess I'll be keeping a low profile today.
-
Neat. So I guess I'll be keeping a low profile today.
You could give reads and stuff if you wanted.
-
Andrew and Jimmmmm are my top choices at the moment. Eevee, sudgy and ash are possibilities also. Could also be talked into iguana and Jake.
What is your read on Jimmmmm based on?
lurking and dodging questions
So nothing that is in any way alignment-indicative for him?
for him? how would I know?
it's ok that you disagree with me wanting to thin out the lurkers, but you don't have to be so shocked every time I propose it.
I would be fine if you proposed policy lynches on lurkers. But you imply that the people who post more are more likely to be town, and that seems questionable given the complete lack of evidence provided.
There's no contradiction. I think lurking is scummy in general. Sometimes townies lurk which I think is anti-town, but it happens and that's why the previous sentence features the words "in general." If I had hard evidence of anything I wouldn't be town.
-
Neat. So I guess I'll be keeping a low profile today.
You could give reads and stuff if you wanted.
O is scum.
-
its true, he's caught me
-
its true, he's caught me
Scummy jokes are scummy
-
To be fair, I do well understand what it feels like to be the wrongful subject of Awaclus's tunneling, and if you are town, it sucks. but jokes like this aren't the way to get sympathy or win people to your side.
-
I think Dylan is scum. Just putting it out there.
-
My towncred can probably handle the hit
-
I think Dylan is scum. Just putting it out there.
I was just going to say I don't feel like dylan has ever posted reads of any kind so far. Want to do a nice reads list or at least give us your current thought on some players you have reads on?
-
mcmc. For your plan do you propose having me hide behind you every night from here on out? I can see the logic behind that, but it isn't really something that sounds well, fun.
I am open to suggestions, but my initial idea was to hide behind you tonight and then flip a coin and either hide behind you or another player that was predetermined during the day to try and either make more confirmed town players or identify scum if I die hiding behind them. You could do something similar with flipping a coin for whether to be unkillable or perform a kill. There is still a risk, but it is mitigated by WIFOM and would allow for the utility of our full roles.
And I guess this isn't stuff that we need to decide today, assuming you are town, we can flesh this out on Day 3.
-
I think TWM should be the L-1 vote for any wagon, and coordinate with MCMC so they vote in quick succession (coordinate in thread, not advocating cheating).
Funny that is what we did yesterday, aside from the coordinating thing.
-
I think TWM should be the L-1 vote for any wagon, and coordinate with MCMC so they vote in quick succession (coordinate in thread, not advocating cheating).
Scum could 1. sacrifice themselves to break up the plan and get PR kills or 2. Hopefully be the one we're wagoning regardless, and we need to try and avoid the self hammer.
This is why hammer hero is a slightly MEH role to include, for future reference @Robz, forces a bit too much metagaming like this.
So if we have an inventor, give one of mcmc or twm the neighbor item so they can have a permanent QT to coordinate in
I can't be given items. Any action that targets me will fail if I am hiding.
-
I was thinking about doing a whole bunch of work to reassess my TWM read but now I don't have to! Yay!
Realized that my wagon wasn't going to gain any traction since it was completely bogus?
-
Just to reiterate an alignment cop in twm would confirm that he is town thus also confirming he is hider and I am town hammer hero.
A rolecop on twm would at least confirm twm and I are hider/hammer hero.
A tracker/watcher/motion detector would at least confirm twm is targeting me.
Not saying any of these things need to happen, I was just going through the roles and figuring everything out for absolute confirmation.
Any actions targeting TWM will fail.
-
Roadrunner I'm curious about your case on lalight?
A lot on my case is built around the assumption that LaLight got the first bid.
-
As far as I can tell currently I should be able to be around entirely through deadline. Twm how about you?
I have a posted VLA. I will be unable to post from Friday around noon through the deadline. So if we want this to happen, we should try and have a lynch before then.
I would feel comfortable giving my vote to Awaclus to act as the penultimate vote. However, that would require him to play-ball, and he might not want to and I am worried that I would not be able to get my night action in on time as I will have no internet until I get back late on Monday (potentially past the night action submission deadline depending on when the lynch occurs).
So mostly I think we should try and lynch by Thursday night, forum time.
-
its true, he's caught me
Scummy jokes are scummy
Except. They aren't. Remember who 2.7 was talking about in that post? Oh, yeah. It was me making a scummy joke, but wasn't scum.
-
As far as I can tell currently I should be able to be around entirely through deadline. Twm how about you?
I have a posted VLA. I will be unable to post from Friday around noon through the deadline. So if we want this to happen, we should try and have a lynch before then.
I would feel comfortable giving my vote to Awaclus to act as the penultimate vote. However, that would require him to play-ball, and he might not want to and I am worried that I would not be able to get my night action in on time as I will have no internet until I get back late on Monday (potentially past the night action submission deadline depending on when the lynch occurs).
So mostly I think we should try and lynch by Thursday night, forum time.
I'm sure that Robz will let you submit your action during the day if you have a posted VLA.
-
mcmc. For your plan do you propose having me hide behind you every night from here on out? I can see the logic behind that, but it isn't really something that sounds well, fun.
I am open to suggestions, but my initial idea was to hide behind you tonight and then flip a coin and either hide behind you or another player that was predetermined during the day to try and either make more confirmed town players or identify scum if I die hiding behind them. You could do something similar with flipping a coin for whether to be unkillable or perform a kill. There is still a risk, but it is mitigated by WIFOM and would allow for the utility of our full roles.
And I guess this isn't stuff that we need to decide today, assuming you are town, we can flesh this out on Day 3.
I have lots of thoughts on this. Obviously for tonight you must hide behind me. Since we may have a private qt provided by the inventor tomorrow I would prefer to discuss this there. If we don't have a private qt I will let you know all my thoughts on this at day three start.
-
mcmc are there any players that you would want to "veto" becoming the lynch? Is that something that we would want to do. I tried being IC once and it failed miserably as town collectively ignored everything I suggested and lynched way before I was ready to do so and as a result I nearly screwed town over by having a bad night action.
So I am not the expert on how to be a good IC. But my impulse is to narrow the lynch pool down a bit (not a hard set rule, if something comes up we can consider others), but I could see that having a negative effect on how interactions and such are created later.
-
I tried being IC once and it failed miserably
We won though!
-
Oh the inventor can only private qt with themselves O read before you suggest things and confuse people
-
As far as I can tell currently I should be able to be around entirely through deadline. Twm how about you?
I have a posted VLA. I will be unable to post from Friday around noon through the deadline. So if we want this to happen, we should try and have a lynch before then.
I would feel comfortable giving my vote to Awaclus to act as the penultimate vote. However, that would require him to play-ball, and he might not want to and I am worried that I would not be able to get my night action in on time as I will have no internet until I get back late on Monday (potentially past the night action submission deadline depending on when the lynch occurs).
So mostly I think we should try and lynch by Thursday night, forum time.
I'm sure that Robz will let you submit your action during the day if you have a posted VLA.
I am sure he would too. I mean, that my action depends on mcmc being the last vote. If the hammer is taken from him I don't want to be committed to hiding behind him but not knowing that he wasnt' the hammer. That is an ideal situation for scum to take a hit be the hammerer and kill off mcmc and me in one fell stroke.
If mcmc isn't the hammerer I am not going to hide behind him. I don't know who I'll hide behind. But I want to be around to make that decision.
-
Oh the inventor can only private qt with themselves O read before you suggest things and confuse people
I didn't suggest inventor you jerk :(
-
If someone steals the hammer they're confirmed scum.
-
If someone steals the hammer they're confirmed scum.
Sure. But that might be worth the next day lynch to get both me and mcmc killed during the night if I am not around to change my night action.
So basically. Let's lynch earlier rather than later.
-
So as far as your hiding goes. The only benefit hiding behind other people does is pseudo "cop" them. But to really have that be known you have to die(commuting makes town hides slightly less concrete) and if you do die we need to know exactly who you hid behind so you have to make it obvious in thread. Since scum knows you are the hider they will be looking for who you are hiding behind if it's not me. So you should absolutely hide behind me every single night. Sorry it's boring but your invincible.
I on the other hand will be wifoming scum and your hiding behind me only sweetens the risk for scum to shoot at me.
-
Just to reiterate an alignment cop in twm would confirm that he is town thus also confirming he is hider and I am town hammer hero.
A rolecop on twm would at least confirm twm and I are hider/hammer hero.
A tracker/watcher/motion detector would at least confirm twm is targeting me.
Not saying any of these things need to happen, I was just going through the roles and figuring everything out for absolute confirmation.
Any actions targeting TWM will fail.
Oh right shoot, trust it is. Twm does have a very believable claim.
-
Roadrunner I'm curious about your case on lalight?
A lot on my case is built around the assumption that LaLight got the first bid.
Why do you think that makes him scum?
-
Roadrunner I'm curious about your case on lalight?
A lot on my case is built around the assumption that LaLight got the first bid.
Why do you think that makes him scum?
There's no IC.
-
Oh the inventor can only private qt with themselves O read before you suggest things and confuse people
I didn't suggest inventor you jerk :(
That was dylan my greatest apologies
-
@mcmc
My case on Space is still their very suspicious vote for J Reggie without much explanations and this:
I want to vote: Space for that JR vote and for this post:
Cuzz is the one who looks the most partnerish, but you know, the evidence is thin.
I'm not sure Calamitas would do too much forced interaction, since his meta is to have even more of a hard time of D1 than I do. I specifically asked him a question to get him to say something, and because a conversation about claiming and evidence is something I can do much better than a conversation about reads.
I didn't pick up anything alignment-indicative from the way he responded. If his death came from a third-faction shot hoping to hit scum, I think it's a pretty lucky kill. Why wouldn't they go after someone who's more likely to be a PR?
I can perfectly see it coming from Calamitas' partner
They have not said much from there and the attention clearly got distracted as the time went. I am still pretty comfortable with my vote.
@Roadrunner
I had an impression that your vote on me is based on some "numbers don't lie" case, which is wrong for 3 reasons:
1. I got the highest number because I am an active poster
2. You still haven't explained why you preferred to miss some people in this count
3. You still haven't explained what this numbers are about as O requested of you.
Now you are saying that is based on me getting the highest bid. Not telling if this is true or not, but you should really keep up with your own words
PPE: 3
-
Roadrunner I'm curious about your case on lalight?
A lot on my case is built around the assumption that LaLight got the first bid.
Why do you think that makes him scum?
There's no IC.
Answer frankly, please. Would you take the IC instead of 2-shot vig?
-
Roadrunner I'm curious about your case on lalight?
A lot on my case is built around the assumption that LaLight got the first bid.
Why do you think that makes him scum?
There's no IC.
Okay now that I'm not giving away my role I can discuss this. An innocent child is not in my opinion a fantastic role. It can easily be killed and it's still just a townie. Similar to the situation I'm in now, I don't magically know who is and isn't scum, I'm going to try my hardest and the fact that there's lots else that goes into my role is what makes it good. In my personal opinion, there are quite a few roles better than IC.
So your voting on a hunch that lalight got the number one draft slot and that if lalight was town he would have chosen IC. That such a stretch to be "a lot of your case"
-
1. I got the highest number because I am an active poster
2. You still haven't explained why you preferred to miss some people in this count
3. You still haven't explained what this numbers are about as O requested of you.
1. If you would've looked at my 'work,' you got no negative numbers at all. So in my eyes, you haven't done a single towny thing.
2. They didn't do anything towny or scummy. I looked at posts, if nothing stuck out for them then I'm not gonna make stuff up.
3. I missed that.
-
So your voting on a hunch that lalight got the number one draft slot and that if lalight was town he would have chosen IC. That such a stretch to be "a lot of your case"
At this point, it's more like 'LaLight got the first spot and didn't go for hammer hero. If you're town you're gonna go for hammer hero. If you're scum, you probably go for the vig. So I think I misspoke.
-
Still couldn't find what O said.
-
So your voting on a hunch that lalight got the number one draft slot and that if lalight was town he would have chosen IC. That such a stretch to be "a lot of your case"
At this point, it's more like 'LaLight got the first spot and didn't go for hammer hero. If you're town you're gonna go for hammer hero. If you're scum, you probably go for the vig. So I think I misspoke.
wait, how do we know lalight got the first spot?
-
mcmc are there any players that you would want to "veto" becoming the lynch? Is that something that we would want to do. I tried being IC once and it failed miserably as town collectively ignored everything I suggested and lynched way before I was ready to do so and as a result I nearly screwed town over by having a bad night action.
So I am not the expert on how to be a good IC. But my impulse is to narrow the lynch pool down a bit (not a hard set rule, if something comes up we can consider others), but I could see that having a negative effect on how interactions and such are created later.
Baisically our opinions can be trusted and that about it. Because of my need to get the hammer to keep this ball rolling we will need to be a little more kind about working with town. The thing we don't want to do is outright "veto" players from the lynch pool, because all that does is limit the players scum has to try to angle the lynch toward. We can however say I wouldn't lynch X because of Y and Z. Essentially keep doing what you've been doing and now people know your intentions are pure. It's nice to do some more analytical posts because that is something that allows other players to agree or disagree and provide reasons for their opinion. I would avoid going super hard at one person because like I said scum know if that persons town or not and can play around your reads. It's a rough job, it's why ic's aren't great. We become the most helpful later when there aren't many people left and we're still town and around.
-
So your voting on a hunch that lalight got the number one draft slot and that if lalight was town he would have chosen IC. That such a stretch to be "a lot of your case"
At this point, it's more like 'LaLight got the first spot and didn't go for hammer hero. If you're town you're gonna go for hammer hero. If you're scum, you probably go for the vig. So I think I misspoke.
wait, how do we know lalight got the first spot?
Cause he read all the games and correctly guessed the funnest one for 100 points.
PPE
-
Reads
A lot of the time I slap reads together, but instead I’m gonna give points. You get 1 to 10 points based on scummy action, and -1 to -10 points based on towny action. Lurking counts as nothing, so that’s cool. I’ll show my work too.
Except, lurking counts as everything the way you are making these reads. The more you post, the more opportunity you have to do both townie or scummy things. LaLight only has a score that high because he is very active (and scummy according to you).
Andrew has done only scummy things.... But it was just one thing so he is 6th from the bottom.
I do like this technique of yours, now just go back and create a hyperlink to the post for each score and it would be perfect
@Roadrunner
Sorry, that was E, not O. all those vowels
-
Just checking in, no new reads apart from the obvious ones. Mcmc's plan/claim seem fantastic for us.
Mcmc played the virgin role very similar to this, I had a hunch he he might be some sort of an unusual pr.
-
So your voting on a hunch that lalight got the number one draft slot and that if lalight was town he would have chosen IC. That such a stretch to be "a lot of your case"
At this point, it's more like 'LaLight got the first spot and didn't go for hammer hero. If you're town you're gonna go for hammer hero. If you're scum, you probably go for the vig. So I think I misspoke.
wait, how do we know lalight got the first spot?
We don't roadrunner thinks because lalight read all the games he's most likely to know the most popular game which robz said at least one player got right and that was worth basically first bid.
-
So your voting on a hunch that lalight got the number one draft slot and that if lalight was town he would have chosen IC. That such a stretch to be "a lot of your case"
At this point, it's more like 'LaLight got the first spot and didn't go for hammer hero. If you're town you're gonna go for hammer hero. If you're scum, you probably go for the vig. So I think I misspoke.
wait, how do we know lalight got the first spot?
We don't roadrunner thinks because lalight read all the games he's most likely to know the most popular game which robz said at least one player got right and that was worth basically first bid.
Yeah we should probably try to avoid rounding hunches up to certitudes.
-
So your voting on a hunch that lalight got the number one draft slot and that if lalight was town he would have chosen IC. That such a stretch to be "a lot of your case"
At this point, it's more like 'LaLight got the first spot and didn't go for hammer hero. If you're town you're gonna go for hammer hero. If you're scum, you probably go for the vig. So I think I misspoke.
wait, how do we know lalight got the first spot?
Cause he read all the games and correctly guessed the funnest one for 100 points.
PPE
I dont even know which is more correct: that this is a very convenient thing to build a case on or that this case is very weak.
vote: Roadrunner7671
-
vote is more for trying to fish info out of me with a weak case
-
You're awfully defensive...if the case is so bad, why are you hung up on it?
-
Guys, therr's a problem with mcmcsalot/TWM's plan: If we gey scum to L-1, they'll self hammer. Even if we coordinate votes, it's still possible that they'd self hammer. So I thimk we need to get them to L-2 then mcmcsalot has to come online at random, obscure timesand hope people are therr.
-
Vote Count 2.4
Cuzz (2): faust, AndrewisFTTW
mcmcsalot (1): Jimmmmm
sudgy (1): The_Wine_Merchant
O (1): Awaclus
AndrewisFTTW (3): Cuzz, pingpongsam, 2.71828....
SpaceAnemone (2): Eevee, Dylan32
Dylan23 (1): Galzria
Galzria (1): iguanaiguana
LaLight (1): RoadRunner7671
faust (1): O
RoadRunner7671 (1): LaLight
Not Voting (5): SpaceAnemone, mcmcsalot, ashersky, JaketheBaseballGod22, sudgy
With 20 alive it takes just 10 to lynch. Day 2 ends on Sunday, May 28th, at 11:00 AM Forum Time.
-
You're awfully defensive...if the case is so bad, why are you hung up on it?
well, mostly because I feel like you're trying to fish info about my bid/role and I am trying to close the topic so I wouldn't give it by accident
-
Guys, therr's a problem with mcmcsalot/TWM's plan: If we gey scum to L-1, they'll self hammer. Even if we coordinate votes, it's still possible that they'd self hammer. So I thimk we need to get them to L-2 then mcmcsalot has to come online at random, obscure timesand hope people are therr.
Coordination. Hence why we need to do it before I leave.
Also Unvote
-
Guys, therr's a problem with mcmcsalot/TWM's plan: If we gey scum to L-1, they'll self hammer. Even if we coordinate votes, it's still possible that they'd self hammer. So I thimk we need to get them to L-2 then mcmcsalot has to come online at random, obscure timesand hope people are therr.
Yes unfortunatly twm and I have to coordinate our votes in exact succession, once we have a player to l-2 we will coordinate a joint hammer. I will think about the exact best way to do this over the next day or so.
-
And only scum will self hammer. That in and of itself is a win. If I were scum and had the opportunit I would not hammer just to WIfOM and try to get out of the lynch.
-
Just caught the, including the plan. Reminds me of a Dominion combo. Also think it is awesome for us that two very active players have these roles so that they can execute the plan well.
I feel less pressure to convince others of my read. Game looks a lot closer to a win now.
-
One thing to go back and look at is Calam. Both mcmc and I were on the slightly higher of interactions with him. But it is looking like we are town. So if you remove the two of us, what is left. I don't want to just jump to a conclusion and force it (ala sudgy) but I do wonder if there is something to be found there as I would expect Calam would have at least some interaction with partner(s).
-
Reads
A lot of the time I slap reads together, but instead I’m gonna give points. You get 1 to 10 points based on scummy action, and -1 to -10 points based on towny action. Lurking counts as nothing, so that’s cool. I’ll show my work too.
Except, lurking counts as everything the way you are making these reads. The more you post, the more opportunity you have to do both townie or scummy things. LaLight only has a score that high because he is very active (and scummy according to you).
Andrew has done only scummy things.... But it was just one thing so he is 6th from the bottom.
I do like this technique of yours, now just go back and create a hyperlink to the post for each score and it would be perfect
@Roadrunner
Sorry, that was E, not O. all those vowels
Wasn't necessarily a request as much as it was a wish list. I understand if you don't have the time. That being said you are young and don't have any responsibilities (false generalization of young people) so you can totally did it.
-
Wasn't necessarily a request as much as it was a wish list. I understand if you don't have the time. That being said you are young and don't have any responsibilities (false generalization of young people) so you can totally did it.
I'll do it but I have no clue how to hyperlink. I'm also obviously not going to do that for TWM or Mcmcsalot.
-
And now we have some really good wagon analysis on my wagon, mcmc's wagon and JReggie's wagon:
J Reggie (10): 2.7128...., Dylan32, gkrieg13, LaLight, JaketheBaseballGod22, sudgy, iguanaiguana, SpaceAnemone, The_Wine_Merchant, mcmcsalot
mcmc: e, gkrieg, LaLight, Jake, RR, TWM
TWM: J Reggie, ashersky, Dylan32, sudgy, mcmcsalot
LaLight was really the only other one that kind of took off: Galz, PPS, Eevee
sudgy was as well for a bit: faust, Eevee, TWM
Andrew, 2.7, ash, RR and Awaclus also had very small wagons.
I think I might have mixed up the orders on mine and mcmc's so don't take that for granted.
That makes me want to reassess the Lalight wagon again (Galz started it and me and someone else took it apart, perhaps unfairly?) and obviously I still feel like sudgy is likely a good lynch.
And I will openly state that I am willing to vote for anyone who didn't cast a vote yesterday:
Jimmmmm
My ideal group of looking at would include the following:
Jimmmm, 2.7, sudgy, LaLight, Dylan
-
Guys, therr's a problem with mcmcsalot/TWM's plan: If we gey scum to L-1, they'll self hammer. Even if we coordinate votes, it's still possible that they'd self hammer. So I thimk we need to get them to L-2 then mcmcsalot has to come online at random, obscure timesand hope people are therr.
Coordination. Hence why we need to do it before I leave.
Also Unvote
Not true, is just that "intent to L-1" is the same as "intent to hammer" and if you are planning on putting someone at L-1 make sure mcmc is tracking
-
@2.7. Why do you think you misread me this game? I feel that I played very similar to how I played in M98, although not intentionally. I think I am finding my default townie zone.
-
Wasn't necessarily a request as much as it was a wish list. I understand if you don't have the time. That being said you are young and don't have any responsibilities (false generalization of young people) so you can totally did it.
I'll do it but I have no clue how to hyperlink. I'm also obviously not going to do that for TWM or Mcmcsalot.
[url=www.linkofpost.com]put words here[/url]
-
Just to reiterate an alignment cop in twm would confirm that he is town thus also confirming he is hider and I am town hammer hero.
A rolecop on twm would at least confirm twm and I are hider/hammer hero.
A tracker/watcher/motion detector would at least confirm twm is targeting me.
Not saying any of these things need to happen, I was just going through the roles and figuring everything out for absolute confirmation.
Just catching up, posting on my way through, but...if TWM hides, he can't be copped, so you aren't making sense there.
-
@RR/Jake - you two haven't interacted with each other. Unusual, yes?
-
Okay, caught up.
Assuming all claims are true, game is cake provided we try even a little bit.
-
20 alive...3 dead per cycle, basically 5 cycles max and the game is over finished.
I'd actually suggest protective roles take no action at night; no need. If we treat the game as vanilla with mcmc hammering each day, we can focus on reads alone and be better off.
-
Or protect Awaclus
-
Or protect Awaclus
I mean, I guess? But it doesn't really matter.
The only way to lose is to mislynch every day and have two town kills every night until we have 2 v 3 with only mafia left, basically. That's 3 to lynch and a 3-man mafia team still alive to control the game.
Again, as long as mcmc and TWM are telling the truth and mcmc hammers the game, it is almost impossible for us to lose. A math person can run the probability of having no scum lynches or NKs until N4/5; I'm sure it is very low.
There are no PRs, for any faction, that can modify that outcome. Hence, the setup has won the game for us. If I were the SK, I'd waive the white flag. For mafia, it's harder since it's a team.
Either way, count me in the "disappointed" camp. What do others think?
-
@RR/Jake - you two haven't interacted with each other. Unusual, yes?
It's hard to interact with Jake if he barely meets the post minimum.
-
Or protect Awaclus
I mean, I guess? But it doesn't really matter.
The only way to lose is to mislynch every day and have two town kills every night until we have 2 v 3 with only mafia left, basically. That's 3 to lynch and a 3-man mafia team still alive to control the game.
Again, as long as mcmc and TWM are telling the truth and mcmc hammers the game, it is almost impossible for us to lose. A math person can run the probability of having no scum lynches or NKs until N4/5; I'm sure it is very low.
There are no PRs, for any faction, that can modify that outcome. Hence, the setup has won the game for us. If I were the SK, I'd waive the white flag. For mafia, it's harder since it's a team.
Either way, count me in the "disappointed" camp. What do others think?
??
2 Mafia TWM and MCMC = Mafia win, 1 Mafia TWM and MC 1 Sk/Werewolf = standoff where Mafia kingmakes between town and SK/werewolf... or just a SK win depending on how Robz interprets "stalemate"
I don't see how 3 mafia are necessary to win.
-
I was thinking about doing a whole bunch of work to reassess my TWM read but now I don't have to! Yay!
Realized that my wagon wasn't going to gain any traction since it was completely bogus?
It was actually because I realized a few of the things you had done that I said were scummy still fit a town narrative. That made me think about how I feel like I do scummy things a lot as town, so I was wondering if it was the same thing for you. I was going to reread you twice, once assuming you were town and seeing how well it fits the narrative, and once assuming you were scum. Then I was going to see which was more plausible.
And, thinking about that, that sounds like a great idea to do for other people! I'm going to start doing that for other people. After I finish some other things I need to do.
-
Okay, this is something I've been wondering for ages:
e, why in the world did you say apples (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg693492#msg693492) at the beginning of the game? It makes no sense!
-
I was thinking about doing a whole bunch of work to reassess my TWM read but now I don't have to! Yay!
Realized that my wagon wasn't going to gain any traction since it was completely bogus?
It was actually because I realized a few of the things you had done that I said were scummy still fit a town narrative. That made me think about how I feel like I do scummy things a lot as town, so I was wondering if it was the same thing for you. I was going to reread you twice, once assuming you were town and seeing how well it fits the narrative, and once assuming you were scum. Then I was going to see which was more plausible.
Also, if I was scum, I think I would have stuck to tunneling you more. I've done it before so I could just point that out as my defense if it got me in trouble.
-
I am the restless sheeper in case that wasn't obvious. I am town in case that wasn't obvious. If we kill me now mcmc has double vote power and can always hammer at L-2. Just a thought. I'm not volunteering just yet because this definitely helps scum massively if this a scam from mcmc, TWM.
-
I am the restless sheeper in case that wasn't obvious. I am town in case that wasn't obvious. If we kill me now mcmc has double vote power and can always hammer at L-2. Just a thought. I'm not volunteering just yet because this definitely helps scum massively if this a scam from mcmc, TWM.
On second thought intentionally killing town seems dumb. I'm less likely to get NKd if mcmc is town and I am sheeping him. Not sure about the wifom of the situation if he is lying. Seems killing me might blow the cover?
-
I am the restless sheeper in case that wasn't obvious. I am town in case that wasn't obvious. If we kill me now mcmc has double vote power and can always hammer at L-2. Just a thought. I'm not volunteering just yet because this definitely helps scum massively if this a scam from mcmc, TWM.
If true, then less likely there is a commuter. So that is nice for my result on Awaclus. Although I have a hard time seeing mafia 1. select commuter unless they were forced to in slot 11 and 2. unlikely they would use it Night 1 I think.
-
Also, inventions can be given to me. As that is apparently done during the day (the giving). But I don't think that helps for any of the plans that actually involved me coordinating with mcmc or having an investigation performed on me.
-
Uh well Unvote I guess.
-
I am the restless sheeper in case that wasn't obvious. I am town in case that wasn't obvious. If we kill me now mcmc has double vote power and can always hammer at L-2. Just a thought. I'm not volunteering just yet because this definitely helps scum massively if this a scam from mcmc, TWM.
This seems like something I should clarify, since it involves an invented and quasi-invented PR. The Restless Sheeper, if dead, casts a default vote for whoever the RS's last sheep target is voting for. This vote is an effective double vote, but it's actually RS's vote (RS would show in the vote totals), and it follows the target's vote.
-
Also, if I was scum, I think I would have stuck to tunneling you more. I've done it before so I could just point that out as my defense if it got me in trouble.
Ok. Let's look actually at that.
Post 508 is when you first vote for me. Continue on 574 and 622. You change your vote to J Reggie on post 952 (actual vote a few later to make sure about vote count), while still stating that you find me scummy. You are putting pressure back on me on post 1047 and go back to me at 1055. You go back to J Reggie on post 1186, while still having a post be more about me than J Reggie and further talk about me during twilight in post 1228.
You start out Day 2 with a Calam read and vote on me post 1584 further that on post 1712.
So in totality, you didn't have any other read on ANYONE except me and J Reggie and the two times you votes for J Reggie you actually talked about me more.
That is the definition of tunneling. Your other posts that aren't about me are: 624 (meta game analysis, neutral), 961 (talking about how to find posts, neutral), 1020 (talking about Restless Sheeper, neutral), 1023 (talking about hammer hero, neutral), 1361 (hammer hero, neutral).
Yeah. You tunneled me the whole game. I can't see you tunneling me anymore than you did.
psuedovote: sudgy
-
Obviously this means we have to manage hammers carefully. IE never put anyone on L-1 (or even maybe L-2) unless mcmc is actively around and ready to hammer.
-
Also, if I was scum, I think I would have stuck to tunneling you more. I've done it before so I could just point that out as my defense if it got me in trouble.
Ok. Let's look actually at that.
Post 508 is when you first vote for me. Continue on 574 and 622. You change your vote to J Reggie on post 952 (actual vote a few later to make sure about vote count), while still stating that you find me scummy. You are putting pressure back on me on post 1047 and go back to me at 1055. You go back to J Reggie on post 1186, while still having a post be more about me than J Reggie and further talk about me during twilight in post 1228.
You start out Day 2 with a Calam read and vote on me post 1584 further that on post 1712.
So in totality, you didn't have any other read on ANYONE except me and J Reggie and the two times you votes for J Reggie you actually talked about me more.
That is the definition of tunneling. Your other posts that aren't about me are: 624 (meta game analysis, neutral), 961 (talking about how to find posts, neutral), 1020 (talking about Restless Sheeper, neutral), 1023 (talking about hammer hero, neutral), 1361 (hammer hero, neutral).
Yeah. You tunneled me the whole game. I can't see you tunneling me anymore than you did.
psuedovote: sudgy
I was saying that I would have continued to tunnel you. Also, why would me saying something stupid like you thought I had said make you vote for me?
-
I was saying that I would have continued to tunnel you. Also, why would me saying something stupid like you thought I had said make you vote for me?
Continued tunneling me after I claimed hider? Are you for real. The second sentence I don't think grammars.
-
I was saying that I would have continued to tunnel you. Also, why would me saying something stupid like you thought I had said make you vote for me?
Continued tunneling me after I claimed hider? Are you for real. The second sentence I don't think grammars.
No, sorry, I realized there's a bit of a misunderstanding. Here's what happened on my end:
1. I've been tunneling you for most of the game. I admit that. I didn't really have time for anything else.
2. Last night and this morning, I started reconsidering. This morning I decided I would consider rereading and doing different things.
3. I saw your claim, and so I didn't need to do all the work of reconsidering.
Now, I'm saying that my scum narrative would have never included 2. I realize that nothing I posted can confirm this, so you'll just have to trust me, but that's what I was saying. 2 happened before your claim.
-
Ok. Finally my long awaited reads. First up, Sudgy.
I know faust kind of did this already, but I feel like there's a bit of info to be gleaned from Calamitas' posts. These are the only two posts that he mentions other players:
This game is really huge.
In regard to the game, I don't like the extent to which TWM is talking about vigs here.
Can someone voting for JReggie present the case in a nytshell?
I don't like that first one. Of all the things people were talking about (mainly a lot of setup speculation), Calamitas mentions TWM's vig talk, which he only mentioned twice, and the last mention was several pages before. It's just an awkward thing to mention. I've already had a scumread on TWM anyway, so maybe there's confirmation bias, but I feel like this is the only thing that Calamitas said that could lead to anything. There's also this interaction:
Guys, I cannot follow really. Can someone give me a short version with the reasoning for all claims with all relevant evidence?
(Please tag it with @Cala). This game is just crazy.
@Cala.
Very few if any of the votes have any substantial reasons at all. This is the hardest game I have had getting reads that are much good at all and I am fully caught up and aware. This isn't going to change until we get some flips. But apparently we want 4 more days of it.
Calamitas makes a plea for people to talk to him, and TWM is the only one who responds. Also, TWM is basically just saying "It's okay, just keep lurking."
Basically, Calamitas and TWM seemed to notice each other more than others did. I know it's not terribly useful info, but I feel like it's something. I still find TWM to be scummy, so Vote: The_Wine_Merchant for now.
Now that we know Calam was scum and TWM appears to be strongly town. Sudgy seems to mostly not like Calamitas's posts here, but ends with a vote on TWM instead.
I could be down with a Sudgy vote. I'm still looking over his Reggie stuff, but these two quotes to me seem contradictory:
It's usually way worse to scum for a scum player to die than to town for a town player to die. So, scum will usually have a greater will to live than town. Then, on top of it all, if you did nothing wrong and everybody hates you, of course you get frustrated. Sure, town will get frustrated too, but not nearly as much as scum does.
Anyway, I think that any setup speculation is useless D1. We don't have any information and can't really figure out anything because of that. The only thing we get is possibly outed PRs.
I still like my J Reggie vote. However, I do like the idea of people self-hammering (when they are definitely getting lynched anyway) in anticipation of a hammer hero. Not just here, but all the time until we confirm there is no hammer hero alive.
The second is, obviously, after Reggie had stated his plan. But Sudgy was still voting him. Which means Sudgy... thought he was scum? Scum that was willing to self-hammer? That goes against what he said above. Granted there is WIFOM in there, but I don't think that's what Sudgy was suggesting was going on.
I think everybody misinterpreted the self-hammer plan. It wasn't to self-hammer when possible, it was to self-hammer when they were already guaranteed to be lynched. The ONLY difference between a normal hammer and his plan was that statistics would be different. I think Reggie's plan was an excellent one that 100% guarantees that scum could never use a hammer hero.
I have to go now again, I'm planning on working on this game a bit more over the next couple of days.
Sudgy is afraid of a hammer hero more than most people seemed to be, which could very well be indicative of scum that bid on that slot and lost, therefore assuming town had the hammer hero and trying to prevent it from hammering.
Between these two things, I feel pretty strongly that Vote: Sudgy is the correct course of action.
-
Now that we know Calam was scum and TWM appears to be strongly town. Sudgy seems to mostly not like Calamitas's posts here, but ends with a vote on TWM instead.
...this was today. After Calamitas flipped scum.
Sudgy is afraid of a hammer hero more than most people seemed to be, which could very well be indicative of scum that bid on that slot and lost, therefore assuming town had the hammer hero and trying to prevent it from hammering.
While this is a legitimate scum narrative, it's not true. I just felt like people were misinterpretting Reggie's plan. I didn't realize how good hammer hero could be for town (I actually missed the immunity part), and so I thought it was a fantastic way to cripple scum. Any way to cripple scum is great in my book.
-
Next: Eevee
Vote: sudgy
As I said earlier, I just pushed the "looks like scum caught for the wrong reasons" argument as scum myself, good enough for me.
^ If I'm correct and sudgy is scum, this looks right.
I thought he was a superior option to TWM/mcmc.
^ At this point it looks like anyone would have been a better option that those two, so correct there.
Isn't Reggie being too erratic for scum?
Vote: awaclus
^ Correct on Reggie, seems likely to be wrong on Awaclus.
Just assuming Reggie is going to flip scum seems like a reach.
Like, if that happens, mcmc is totally justified in what he did, of course. Still more likely than not he is town, though, must be? Feels crazy you are doing analysis expecting a scum flip.
This was in twilight. Seems more sure than most that JR was flipping town.
I'm pretty sure I never voted for mcmc or gkrieg. I was trying to start awaclus or andrew wagons, but didn't get much support, and i joined the reggie train for a bit and then abandoned it after the claim.
*or tmw
I would assume at least one scum would to be off town wagons to look like their reads are good. With a team of 5 people, you would probably want to divide up so that some people are pushing early mislynches while others are setting up future lynches while getting towncred early for being right.
One thing that's bugging me about mcmc is that his reaction to hammering town is not "oh man, my read was wrong, sorry town!", it's "oh, the people who got off this town wagon are scummy". That does not seem like a town mindset to me, there is no doubting himself. The situation IS confusing, I know I'm not very confident I could pick even one scum, let alone four person scum teams. And mcmc is just doubling down on his reads, not pausing at all after hammering a town player last night. I could see this as a distraction for his own hammer, basically the scum narrative of "town wouldn't be this confident in their reads after just being wrong -> it's scum going aggressive.
Throws suspicioun at mcmc, then:
Just checking in, no new reads apart from the obvious ones. Mcmc's plan/claim seem fantastic for us.
Mcmc played the virgin role very similar to this, I had a hunch he he might be some sort of an unusual pr.
He acts like he thought mcmc was a PR the whole time. This last point isn't much, but it is something.
I lean scum on Eevee playing the scum who was in the right places all the time until it's too late for town role.
PPE 1
-
Now that we know Calam was scum and TWM appears to be strongly town. Sudgy seems to mostly not like Calamitas's posts here, but ends with a vote on TWM instead.
...this was today. After Calamitas flipped scum.
Sudgy is afraid of a hammer hero more than most people seemed to be, which could very well be indicative of scum that bid on that slot and lost, therefore assuming town had the hammer hero and trying to prevent it from hammering.
While this is a legitimate scum narrative, it's not true. I just felt like people were misinterpretting Reggie's plan. I didn't realize how good hammer hero could be for town (I actually missed the immunity part), and so I thought it was a fantastic way to cripple scum. Any way to cripple scum is great in my book.
Oh, I guess I missed that that was D2. On my computer, that post, #1584, shows up with the header saying "D1" while the post above and below says D2.
-
Now that we know Calam was scum and TWM appears to be strongly town. Sudgy seems to mostly not like Calamitas's posts here, but ends with a vote on TWM instead.
...this was today. After Calamitas flipped scum.
Sudgy is afraid of a hammer hero more than most people seemed to be, which could very well be indicative of scum that bid on that slot and lost, therefore assuming town had the hammer hero and trying to prevent it from hammering.
While this is a legitimate scum narrative, it's not true. I just felt like people were misinterpretting Reggie's plan. I didn't realize how good hammer hero could be for town (I actually missed the immunity part), and so I thought it was a fantastic way to cripple scum. Any way to cripple scum is great in my book.
Oh, I guess I missed that that was D2. On my computer, that post, #1584, shows up with the header saying "D1" while the post above and below says D2.
When you quote, the header says whatever the quote did. See, this post is still saying D1.
-
Also, I don't think I've ever seen town admit that a scum narrative is legitimate. If you are town, there isn't really a legit scum narrative for your play. Add Sudgy's reply post to one that I think is scummy.
I realize I didn't list nearly as many of his posts as I did Eevee's, but other people have talked more about Sudgy, so I was just adding stuff that I didn't remember people pointing out.
PPE 1
Oh, didn't know it did that. Either way, that's why I didn't realize your post was actually D2, so I do retract that point.
-
Also, I don't think I've ever seen town admit that a scum narrative is legitimate. If you are town, there isn't really a legit scum narrative for your play. Add Sudgy's reply post to one that I think is scummy.
...so you're saying that town never ever does things that scum would do? That's completely false. There's tons of stuff that people do that fit a scum or town narrative. I'm just saying that I can't refute the logic in that point.
-
Also, I don't think I've ever seen town admit that a scum narrative is legitimate. If you are town, there isn't really a legit scum narrative for your play. Add Sudgy's reply post to one that I think is scummy.
...so you're saying that town never ever does things that scum would do? That's completely false. There's tons of stuff that people do that fit a scum or town narrative. I'm just saying that I can't refute the logic in that point.
I should have been more precise with my language. I probably should have said something closer to "If you are town, it's easier to see the town perspective and narrative for your actions than the scum one because you weren't operating in a scum mindset." My main point in the first sentence was that you admitted the scum narrative was there. That's more the scummy part than the actions. Of course town can do things that look scummy, but they usually don't recognize their actions as scummy.
-
Also, I don't think I've ever seen town admit that a scum narrative is legitimate. If you are town, there isn't really a legit scum narrative for your play. Add Sudgy's reply post to one that I think is scummy.
...so you're saying that town never ever does things that scum would do? That's completely false. There's tons of stuff that people do that fit a scum or town narrative. I'm just saying that I can't refute the logic in that point.
I should have been more precise with my language. I probably should have said something closer to "If you are town, it's easier to see the town perspective and narrative for your actions than the scum one because you weren't operating in a scum mindset." My main point in the first sentence was that you admitted the scum narrative was there. That's more the scummy part than the actions. Of course town can do things that look scummy, but they usually don't recognize their actions as scummy.
I didn't recognize it as scummy until you mentioned it. I admitted it because that was the topic at hand.
Also, FYI, I sometimes do things that I know look scummy as town. I've always done that. I just think that the benefits of saying what I would outweighs the extra scumminess.
-
Okay, this is something I've been wondering for ages:
e, why in the world did you say apples (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg693492#msg693492) at the beginning of the game? It makes no sense!
It was a reference to apple interactions (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg319753#msg319753) with morgrim (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9878.msg418936#msg418936).
-
So yeah. It wasn't supposed to make any sense, being a morgrim reference
-
Alright, I finally did my first half of the reread of Galzria (going in player order). In case you missed, here's what I'm going to try: reread someone once, assuming they are town, and then reread them again, assuming they are scum. Anyway.
I can't find any holes in Galzria's town play. Almost everything fits perfectly together. If he's scum, he's doing a really good job. There are two interesting things to point out:
1. Galzria has a tendency to hone in on things that aren't too big of a deal. For example, he spends ages talking about Reggie saying he was basing his reads off of something superficial, when it was clear to at least me and a few others that Reggie had already said it. Later he focuses on LaLight not focusing on the people who switched wagons when LaLight had said they could be scum. Not that alignment indicative, but it is an interesting thing to note.
2. Galz, did you reread Cuzz twice on accident? (here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg694403#msg694403) and here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg694591#msg694591))
Alright, now to do a scum reread. Let's see how it pans out.
-
pps, you should reconsider sheeping because you will be the person hammering, not mcmc. Those two roles antisynergize
-
Or protect Awaclus
I mean, I guess? But it doesn't really matter.
The only way to lose is to mislynch every day and have two town kills every night until we have 2 v 3 with only mafia left, basically. That's 3 to lynch and a 3-man mafia team still alive to control the game.
Again, as long as mcmc and TWM are telling the truth and mcmc hammers the game, it is almost impossible for us to lose. A math person can run the probability of having no scum lynches or NKs until N4/5; I'm sure it is very low.
There are no PRs, for any faction, that can modify that outcome. Hence, the setup has won the game for us. If I were the SK, I'd waive the white flag. For mafia, it's harder since it's a team.
Either way, count me in the "disappointed" camp. What do others think?
??
2 Mafia TWM and MCMC = Mafia win, 1 Mafia TWM and MC 1 Sk/Werewolf = standoff where Mafia kingmakes between town and SK/werewolf... or just a SK win depending on how Robz interprets "stalemate"
I don't see how 3 mafia are necessary to win.
You are correct that the situations you propose are also town losses. The 3 mafia scenario is the quickest way to lose -- a "worst case" for town.
The first situation you describe is just the 3 mafia one with one less mafia. The second requires one of the two components of the plan to die, so that would mean a townie screwed up.
Unless we lets a quickhammer happen, we will win.
-
Just to reiterate an alignment cop in twm would confirm that he is town thus also confirming he is hider and I am town hammer hero.
A rolecop on twm would at least confirm twm and I are hider/hammer hero.
Both these actions would fail if TWM hides.
-
I could have guessed that someone pointed that out already.
I could lynch sudgy, I mean, I already wanted to D1. But it does seem like a convenient wagon for scum to have right now.
-
pps, you should reconsider sheeping because you will be the person hammering, not mcmc. Those two roles antisynergize
Good point. Why not sheep Awaclus?
-
I guess TWM is better, but we haven't really confirmed him yet.
-
I guess TWM is better, but we haven't really confirmed him yet.
But how is Awaclus better then?
-
I guess TWM is better, but we haven't really confirmed him yet.
But how is Awaclus better then?
Awaclus is basically confirmed town. There is no way he's scum together with TWM. They could be on different scum teams, but that's all.
-
@RR/Jake - you two haven't interacted with each other. Unusual, yes?
It's hard to interact with Jake if he barely meets the post minimum.
lol I'm just trying to not get into arguments that make everyone wanna lynch me.
-
I guess TWM is better, but we haven't really confirmed him yet.
But how is Awaclus better then?
Awaclus is basically confirmed town. There is no way he's scum together with TWM. They could be on different scum teams, but that's all.
This is in the if TWM is scum scenario? I think it goes like this:
If TWS is scum...no further information on mcmc or Awaclus, no Hider in the game.
If mcmc is scum...no further information on TWS or Awaclus.
If Awaclus is scum...TWS is the same scum faction as Awaclus.
Why is there "no way he's scum together with TWM" in your statement?
-
I'm fairly certain we can just lynch in sign-up order and win most of the time. All that matters currently is if we believe MCMC and TWM are town.
Stolen hammers are the only threat...
SK doesn't steal the hammer; as the sole member of his faction, he can't out himself.
WW probably doesn't steal the hammer; giving up 50% of the team is too risky.
Mafia might try to steal the hammer; 25% of the team is probably okay, as long as it is a goon.
A stolen hammer doesn't spell disaster for us though, as protection is a possibility for mcmc and TWM can just wifom his target or not hide at all. Although it's probably in all scum's best interests for all scum to shoot for mcmc if he misses a hammer, just to try to stop the unstoppable setup win.
So, basically we do everything we can to ensure mcmc hammers and we win. This no longer feels like a mafia game, just a game of posting in order.
For now, L-4 has to be the gate. If all 4 mafia want to try to quickhammer there, it's worth it for town. So, I'd say we get to L-4 and then wait, then assign vote order from there.
Mcmc clearly hammers.
TWM and Awaclus get L-2 and L-1 in any order.
Those three can choose the L-3 voter.
Re-do this order on the next day, calculating for however many scum may be left alive. Rinse, repeat, win.
I literally don't care who we lynch on any day at this point, as long as it isn't one of those three.
(This is all assuming claims are true to this point. If you have a counterclaim, it's time for that.)
-
pps, you should reconsider sheeping because you will be the person hammering, not mcmc. Those two roles antisynergize
Point taken.
Sheep: TWM
-
Unvote
I am happy to do whatever is necessary to help make sure the plan goes smoothly and we win. I'll be around.
-
I don't think we should random lynch or phone it in. If all the townies besides TWM and mcmcsalot die, it doesn't really matter that they're confirmed town.
-
I don't think we should random lynch or phone it in. If all the townies besides TWM and mcmcsalot die, it doesn't really matter that they're confirmed town.
I will say again, the likelihood of that happening is extremely low. Random lynching + whatever shooting scum does will still hit scum over the course of 12 deaths.
Put it this way, we have 20 people alive, remove 2 from the death pool. Day/nights 2-5 equals 12 deaths max (assuming no vigging). That leaves 6 alive with our 2 deathproof. There are at most 6 scum left alive, which means you would have to have every single death hit a townie.
Scum can't know they aren't shooting the other scum, and even mildly informed lynching could help lynch scum, so really, one or more scum will die in the next 12 deaths, and we will automatically win.
I think fighting this, especially with fake-y pleas of "no, we have to keep trying!!!" is scummy.
-
There are math people alive in this game, right? Do the chances thing.
Up to 1 in 3 chance to randomly lynch scum today is where we start (up to 6 out of 18). We whiff and two townies die?
Then we are at 6 in 15. Whiff and two more townies die?
We are trying to find 6 in 12, or basically half the remaining players. And that's the worst case.
If we only have 5 scum, adjust accordingly, but still, the odds are overwhelmingly in our favor. Scum no killing can prolong their agony, but not much else.
-
I'm wondering if massclaim even bests our odds. I mean we either have conflicting claims or a pool of vts. Is something wrong with this plan?
-
I'm wondering if massclaim even bests our odds. I mean we either have conflicting claims or a pool of vts. Is something wrong with this plan?
It lets the SK know who not to shoot? I think it could be okay though.
-
I'm wondering if massclaim even bests our odds. I mean we either have conflicting claims or a pool of vts. Is something wrong with this plan?
It lets the SK know who not to shoot? I think it could be okay though.
Eh, I wonder what miracle should happen in this game for SK to win tho
-
I don't think we should random lynch or phone it in. If all the townies besides TWM and mcmcsalot die, it doesn't really matter that they're confirmed town.
I will say again, the likelihood of that happening is extremely low. Random lynching + whatever shooting scum does will still hit scum over the course of 12 deaths.
Put it this way, we have 20 people alive, remove 2 from the death pool. Day/nights 2-5 equals 12 deaths max (assuming no vigging). That leaves 6 alive with our 2 deathproof. There are at most 6 scum left alive, which means you would have to have every single death hit a townie.
Scum can't know they aren't shooting the other scum, and even mildly informed lynching could help lynch scum, so really, one or more scum will die in the next 12 deaths, and we will automatically win.
I think fighting this, especially with fake-y pleas of "no, we have to keep trying!!!" is scummy.
Okay, it makes sense now.
But it doesn't matter how scummy I am, does it? ;)
-
I'm wondering if massclaim even bests our odds. I mean we either have conflicting claims or a pool of vts. Is something wrong with this plan?
It lets the SK know who not to shoot? I think it could be okay though.
Eh, I wonder what miracle should happen in this game for SK to win tho
If TWM is the SK
-
I'm wondering if massclaim even bests our odds. I mean we either have conflicting claims or a pool of vts. Is something wrong with this plan?
No I'm fine with it
-
I really appreciate sudgy's work at reread, but ashersky's work leaves me convinced that we should just push through anyone who at least moderately could be scum. Eventually PoE will catch up and even if we mislynch like 3 times in a row we still have enough town left to win.
20 players, 4 regular scum, 1/2 other scum
Assuming all deaths are town deaths:
Lynch, x2 NK-> 17 players on D3
Lynch, x2 NK-> 14 players on D4
Lynch, x2 NK-> 11 players on D5
Lynch x2 NK-> 8 players on D6
Ok, the third mislynch would put us in a situation where if we have 2 WWs and 4 scum working together they could push a lynch through. A fourth would mean scum can control with help from SK. A fifth scum win without 3rd party help
But that is 4/5 mislynches. I doubt we do that especially with the "ICs" that have been created. So yeah. Let's lynch Andrew and move on
-
Vote Count 2.5
Cuzz (2): faust, AndrewisFTTW
O (1): Awaclus
AndrewisFTTW (3): Cuzz, pingpongsam, 2.71828....
SpaceAnemone (1): Eevee
Dylan23 (1): Galzria
LaLight (1): RoadRunner7671
faust (1): O
RoadRunner7671 (1): LaLight
sudgy (1): Dylan32
Not Voting (8.): SpaceAnemone, mcmcsalot, ashersky, JaketheBaseballGod22, sudgy, The_Wine_Merchant, Jimmmmm, iguanaiguana
With 20 alive it takes just 10 to lynch. Day 2 ends on Sunday, May 28th, at 11:00 AM Forum Time.
-
vote: Andrew
let's see. I think the plan has no flaws
-
I'm wondering if massclaim even bests our odds. I mean we either have conflicting claims or a pool of vts. Is something wrong with this plan?
It lets the SK know who not to shoot? I think it could be okay though.
Eh, I wonder what miracle should happen in this game for SK to win tho
If TWM is the SK
The breadcrumb seems highly unlikely but extremely devious of a plan. I'm curious how damaging to the plan it is to lynch TWM for verification. I'm thinking very but I'm also thinking its a very losing proposition if this is a gambit. My gut says you don't seed this gambit D1 to pull it D2 but my mind says that is the best flavor of WIFOM there is. I'm always the super paranoid guy about the obvious town claims, though.
PPE I am way more in favor of lynching Andrew
-
Everyone calm down.
Listen for a second, I asked for all the tracking pr's to track twm or watch me ect. because we want to be sure twm is actually town and is actually hiding behind me. I get that actions fail on twm but not on me.
Also I don't think a massclaim is good because again we are not sure twm/awaclus is town and because scum could snag the hammer from me while twm and I are posting our votes.
Lastly, I don't get what ash's number are at all, you are only considering 2 deaths a day.
Currently we are at A) 15T/4M/1sk or B) 14T/4M/2WW
A) mislynch+mafiakill+skkill = 12T/4M/1Sk, mislynch+mafiakill+skkill = 9T/4M/1Sk, mislynch+mafiakill+skkill 6T/4M/1SK, mislynch+mafiakill+skkill = 3T/4M/1SK town loses. That's 4 mislynches and we lose. We currently have 17 players to chose from and 5 are scum so a 29% chance of hitting scum on a random lynch.
B) mislynch+mafiakill+WWkill = 11T/4M/2WW, mislynch+mafiakill+WWkill = 8T/4M/2WW, mislynch+mafiakill+WWkill 5T/4M/2WW, mislynch+mafiakill+WWkill = 2T/4M/2WW town loses. That's 4 mislynches and we lose. We currently have 17 players to chose from and 6 are scum so a 35% chance of hitting scum randomly.
Okay I guess we do have a pretty good shot but we still need to be kinda smart and we should still have night actions try to help us as much as possible. We should also still be scumhunting, FOS anyone who is taking from my claim a 100% guarantee me/twm/awaclus are town and hiding behind the fact the we have a "great chance of winning" so they don't have to contribute.
Ppe 2.7 did a similar thing
-
I mean I've got my theories on who scum is and I guess traditional scumhunting is going to feel stupid to everyone so I'm okay with picking some lynch targets, I just hate that if we mislynch a time or two and then the hammer gets snagged away we've wasted multiple wagons ect.
-
I specifically considered only three deaths a day, ignoring vigilantes. If my numbers didn't reflect that at every turn, it was a math error or typo.
18 to 15 to 12 to 9 to 6, from today until opening of Day 6. For Day 6 to even happen, two scum have to die.
You aren't making any new statements, but you are muddying the waters unnecessarily. Yes, we could lose with 4 (4!) mislynches in a row, but considering the possibility that scum kills each other at night, it is not guaranteed even then.
Even with 3 mislynches, we have 6 other deaths, and it is there that I think we are more likely to have scum die anyway. Twice as many chances, after all.
But even with 3 mislynches and 6 town NKs, we start day four with 5 town vs. 6 scum or 6 town vs. 5 scum. In either case, no single scum faction has a majority, and claiming scum to get help from other scum seems unlikely, and hard to pull off anyway. Clearly, if it looks like we are heading to this scenario, we try harder (and probably deserve to lose considering the position we are in right now).
You are also FOSing the exact opposite of the people I think deserve to be FOSed. Scum are more likely to try to obfuscate, distract, and disrupt the broken setup plan.
-
FOS anyone who is taking from my claim a 100% guarantee me/twm/awaclus are town and hiding behind the fact the we have a "great chance of winning" so they don't have to contribute.
I don't think we should random lynch or phone it in. If all the townies besides TWM and mcmcsalot die, it doesn't really matter that they're confirmed town.
-
I mean I've got my theories on who scum is and I guess traditional scumhunting is going to feel stupid to everyone so I'm okay with picking some lynch targets, I just hate that if we mislynch a time or two and then the hammer gets snagged away we've wasted multiple wagons ect.
I hate to be Awaclusian here, but really we should do what will result in a win most often, and that is exploiting the broken hole that has been blasted into the setup by you. (Way to go ruining your brother's setup, btw.)
I'm assuming Robz didn't specifically mean for double-unkillable-ICs to factor into the game, but they're here now, so we have to exploit them.
As for prudence, of course, be prudent. Watching mcmc is sensible; investigating him might be. Just confirms things further.
-
Yea I guess I just didn't see your math correctly we got the same conclusions ash. I guess I'm just disappointed I expected a fun game trying to catch scum while being unkillable and now I feel like I got hammer game+whack-a-mole. I did not realize exactly how strong this was going to be.
Lastly there is the chance scum has multiple killing powers.
Twm are you aware of how to track players viewing the thread?
-
Twm are you aware of how to track players viewing the thread?
You can only do this if people haven't turned off being visible online.
You still see the total number of people viewing the thread, but viewing "who's online" will only give usernames of the visible players.
-
Twm are you aware of how to track players viewing the thread?
You can only do this if people haven't turned off being visible online.
You still see the total number of people viewing the thread, but viewing "who's online" will only give usernames of the visible players.
That's a thing...
-
Twm are you aware of how to track players viewing the thread?
You can only do this if people haven't turned off being visible online.
You still see the total number of people viewing the thread, but viewing "who's online" will only give usernames of the visible players.
That's a thing...
You are learning all sorts of things this game! How to do the phone version of ctrl+f, how to make you invisible online...
-
Also again I don't get what people are pissed about. Numbers wise I don't see why knowing me and twm are town is any different for the number of mislynches to lose. That's just the amount of mislynches needed to lose for town period. Is it just because two correct scum lynches basically result in a town win? But again lynching 3 of the 5 mafia is pretty indicative of a town win in the first place.
I think people should still be scumhunting.
-
Also again I don't get what people are pissed about. Numbers wise I don't see why knowing me and twm are town is any different for the number of mislynches to lose. That's just the amount of mislynches needed to lose for town period. Is it just because two correct scum lynches basically result in a town win? But again lynching 3 of the 5 mafia is pretty indicative of a town win in the first place.
I think people should still be scumhunting.
I agree with you that we don't need to go full determinist and give up doing anything and just assume the game is in the bag. Never go full determinist.
But I think we can play with a certain level of very high confidence. One of my scum reads before all this started is still a very viable lynch, so I think we confidently move forward with his lynch. It's not like I am trying to find town to lynch.
-
Yea I guess I just didn't see your math correctly we got the same conclusions ash. I guess I'm just disappointed I expected a fun game trying to catch scum while being unkillable and now I feel like I got hammer game+whack-a-mole. I did not realize exactly how strong this was going to be.
Lastly there is the chance scum has multiple killing powers.
Twm are you aware of how to track players viewing the thread?
Can't scum only have multiple kills if they got HH or Vig?
Fake edit: just looked, am correct, plus if masons are in the game that's a possible double kill on accident.
Whack-a-mole it is. Oh well. They can't all be the best 100th game of mafia ever.
-
If TWM and, especially mcmc, are actually scum. I salute your most brazen and well executed approach and I wish for your ultimate unmasking and demise this game.
-
If TWM and, especially mcmc, are actually scum. I salute your most brazen and well executed approach and I wish for your ultimate unmasking and demise this game.
And yes. This is a possibility. But I any not going to worry about that until D5 and we have failed to lynch scum
-
yeah so to be a bit of a killjoy I do wanna explore this a tad, even if we're not going to lynch either of them today. IF one was to have a suspicion that mcmc and TWM were scum, this quote would be worth taking a look at:
Faust you think ninja and one-shot cop are better roles for town than hammer hero?
Ninja is useless, one-shot cop can at max utility catch scum, at worst hit investigation immune/get blocked and receive no result. Hammer hero can at max utility create two unkillable IC's and at worst kill town. I think hammer hero is the better role here.
One could read this as scum!mcmc testing the waters to see whether town would buy the prospect of a town hammer hero. To me, personally, it seemed like a scummy role, which was why I was kinda raging at mcmc at the end of D1. For better or for worse, I was really not considering the idea that town would pick that role.
Also in the same quote is a breadcrumb for the hider plan. When I first read this I was confused. Maybe I'm just particularly bad at teasing out all the possible complicated PR interactions (spoiler: I am), but I do not think I would have spotted this synergy unless I had discussed it with someone. You could also read this as maaaaaybe mcmc being a little too confident that there was a "town" hider in the game.
To be clear, I do believe them and am cool with the plan for now, but it would be negligent not to consider otherwise, and I could be dead later in the game and unable to point any of this out.
-
Alright, finished the second half of my Galzria reread. I assumed he was scum and saw if anything stood out.
#942 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg694344#msg694344) He mentions Calamitas and asks him to post his own thoughts. This would be interesting if he was scum. Also, Calamitas is listed with a couple other people at the same time, so if he was scum that could mean interesting things for the other players.
#1140 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg694584#msg694584) He distances himself from the Reggie wagon, and suggests looking at the people on the wagon. If he's scum, maybe few if any scumpartners are on wagon?
After the Reggie wagon, he takes control by asking everybody tons of questions about the wagon. While I think this is town!Galzria, this could be scum trying to control the game.
His strange fixation on things that I mentioned earlier could be scum trying to derail the conversation and talk about useless things.
#1922 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg695756#msg695756) is the first time anybody mentions that we may have solved the game. Would scum really do this?
He hasn't really posted since then.
In the end, I now have a huge townread on Galzria. Everything makes sense if he was town, and there are a couple of things that don't make sense as scum.
-
Yes, Cuzz. This is exactly my unease with the situation. mcmc was very clear that he created two unkillables. He knew ahead of time that the other unkillable would be a hider (assuming both were town). The forthrightness of the post before TWM ever claimed indicates he had thought through all this well in advance. Now, that's not to say that he couldn't or wouldn't do this as town. More often than not, though, Town gets forced into claiming (which he kind of was with the ugly hammer) and then post-claim they begin to discover the intricacies/synergies of their role as more information develops and other people put the pieces together.
I mean, assuming mcmc is town, I suppose I salute that he saw all the avenues in advance.
That TWM breadcrumbed being hider is really smart, especially how he did it. He sure wouldn't get any static from Awaclus for doing it the way he did as it basically IC's Awaclus. Oh, look, who would be the best person for scum to IC? Maybe Awaclus, the guy who will kill a townie just to prove a semantic point. So, TWM's play isn't overtly scummy but it sure is easy to attach a scum narrative to it. TWM/mcmc ccok up a big ole, YOLO 100th Mafia plan that just might work, especially if scum landed the HH role.
Again, I'm with e, here. Let's run with it for a bit and if we start flipping Mafiosos the next 2 days I'll feel way better about this too good to be true situation.
-
I'm tempted to sheep Awaclus although that seems worse than maybe sheeping a scum. I guess, I'm not so hot on sheeping TWM just because there is a very clear scum narrative for this wondrous happenstance we supposedly found ourselves in.
-
Lots of things in this post. Kind of stream of thought, but I have been thinking about this quite a bit.
1. I am getting more nervous about the hammering thing. It just seems super full of potential errors. Many chances for something to go wrong. I think we should still try and go for it but I do wonder if we are going to be able to do it day after day after day with consistency and not having either scum mess it up or town inadvertently mess it up. We are all fallible humans and I think town is more likely to mess this up than scum getting in its way. As such, I don't want to hear any more talk about game being fixed or set or solved. Keep playing the game because this plan isn't guaranteed to work every time and we could find ourselves in a bind if even one thing goes wrong.
2. I think the suspicion of mcmc and myself is justified (I would probably feel similar to others if I were in their shoes) and will only get worse as the game goes on. I think there are ways to perhaps confirm our town status here (investigations of sorts, but we aren't recommended to get those). But what I would hate is for us to get to say Day 5 and either mcmc or myself end up being the lynch out of extreme suspicion for us and we lose the game.
3. I am not super in love with the idea of hiding behind mcmc every night. That just doesn't sound fun. It also seems like it isn't what Robz intended and I don't even think it is the optimal use of my or mcmc's role. So I am proposing doing something different (see below).
4. I am not in love with the Andrew lynch. I won't veto it, but I strongly think there are better options. This is obviously just a gut read, but it is an honest one. I feel confident in my ability to read Andrew and I don't think he is scum. So please take that into consideration.
So what I think want to do with my role.
*Night 2 - hide behind mcmc if the hammer plan is successful.
*Night 3 and future nights - state two players that I might hide behind. Roll a dice that is set at an arbitrary number that I will decide, but not reveal in thread. If A - I hide behind mcmc, if B - I hide behind one of the two players that I stated by flipping a coin and hiding behind the "heads." If I die and mcmc doesn't that will reveal one of the two players to be scum. If I stay alive I will reveal what I did that night and either state I was behind mcmc or make another IC. mcmc could do something similar and flip a coin to either be unkillable or have a vig (so long as he doesn't kill either of the two players that I state I might hide behind). What I don't want to do is just always hide behind mcmc and then get killed by hiding behind him if he decides to not be unkillable at night, that benefits nothing for town.
I want to do this because it is fun and would be useful, even if I die. And because I think it is more inline with what the game is supposed to be about. There will be huge WIFOM for mafia. There is risk that I die, but if I do I find mafia, but frankly that is more fun than just dumbly hiding behind mcmc every night and neither of us using our roles to our full potentials.
This should also help alleviate some of the concerns that people have about the plan as it does create the opportunity for me to die and if I do, confirm mcmc and any of the ICs that were created. So unless someone can create a strong counter argument for why I shouldn't do this (and stating that the other way is game breaking isn't going to be enough for me, I don't want to play in a game broken game. I would rather just quit and move on to another one) that shows why this plan is actually bad I will be doing this.
-
That TWM breadcrumbed being hider is really smart, especially how he did it. He sure wouldn't get any static from Awaclus for doing it the way he did as it basically IC's Awaclus. Oh, look, who would be the best person for scum to IC? Maybe Awaclus, the guy who will kill a townie just to prove a semantic point. So, TWM's play isn't overtly scummy but it sure is easy to attach a scum narrative to it. TWM/mcmc ccok up a big ole, YOLO 100th Mafia plan that just might work, especially if scum landed the HH role.
I chose Awaclus for three reasons. 1. there was a good place for me to breadcrumb. I was looking for one of those throughout the beginning of Day 1. 2. he is a player that is hard for me to read. 3. he was a player I thought unlikely to be killed at night if he was town.
-
@TWM, I have always believed PRs should do what they want to do and not get tied down to a plan or anything. In the end it is your choice.
-
But still, the plan is pretty solid plan
-
Completely disagree. Play to win, using the best options available.
I'm also fine with scum giving up and moving on to the next game, by the way. We could all vote on that, too.
-
TWM, the one problem with saying who you're hiding behind early is that mafia could just kill you anyway after you have said two town players. Then we'll get two mislynches and your death. It's somewhat unlikely, but given the fact that mafia are already doing worse I think they are more likely to gamble with killing you.
-
Sorry I've been absent but I'm caught up. Don't have much to add though.
Completely disagree. Play to win, using the best options available.
I'm also fine with scum giving up and moving on to the next game, by the way. We could all vote on that, too.
^Yeah I agree with this. There are always future games to tweak setups and such but we should take advantage of the tools we were given.
-
TWM, the one problem with saying who you're hiding behind early is that mafia could just kill you anyway after you have said two town players. Then we'll get two mislynches and your death. It's somewhat unlikely, but given the fact that mafia are already doing worse I think they are more likely to gamble with killing you.
And people think sudgy is scum?
-
TWM, the one problem with saying who you're hiding behind early is that mafia could just kill you anyway after you have said two town players. Then we'll get two mislynches and your death. It's somewhat unlikely, but given the fact that mafia are already doing worse I think they are more likely to gamble with killing you.
And people think sudgy is scum?
Twm thinks sudgy is scum, I don't. Never have. I'm okay with the andrew lynch especially because he was voting for gkrie yesterday but hell I was voting for twm and jreggie. I still like an eevee lynch as well as the andrew lynch and maybe a lalight or space lynch.
-
I agree with almost everything Ash has said, as it was my exact reaction yesterday upon learning of the setup we've been handed. The counter arguments to the numbers working completely in our favor assume that each day we mislynch AND each night two town are NK'd for three consecutive days. That's 9 for 9 in town deaths which is just highly, highly unlikely.
That said, I disagree with his "lynch from the signup sheet" plan -
A) Because I'm first, am Town, and softclaim have utility that I believe will be beneficial to furthering town's chances of winning.
B) If Ash is scum and knows his partners are Sudgy and Jake, he's setting scum up to come back and win.
I would be in favor of random lynching, or lynching based off mcmc/TWM's highest scum reads or whatever.
But as of right now, given the current setup, I can't really bring myself to continue to play at the level I was. It takes a moderate amount of my time and is simply unnecessary.
(I'm not ceasing to play, but actively engaging in full rereads to scum hunt don't seem to serve much purpose)
-
But as of right now, given the current setup, I can't really bring myself to continue to play at the level I was. It takes a moderate amount of my time and is simply unnecessary.
(I'm not ceasing to play, but actively engaging in full rereads to scum hunt don't seem to serve much purpose)
Hey, don't you want to win D5 instead of D8? I think that would be way more fun! Do what you want though.
(I haven't thought through if D5 or D8 are actual good estimates)
-
I realized that I'm not getting through all players by the end of the day, so I'm going to pick the people that people are talking about first. So Andrew first.
I took Cuzz's post to be slightly sarcastic in a "I shouldn't have to explain this to you" way. Apparently that was incorrect. And are you implying that I was tunneling gkrieg? I wouldn't necessarily call it that considering I posted so little. And he wasn't my only scumread.
Just curious, who else were you scumreading D1?
So, Andrew doesn't have too much stuff. The main thing that's interesting (wow I use that word a lot) is that yesterday he was tunneling gkrieg, and now he's tunneling Cuzz today. I can see a town narrative, but it's a bit odd.
-
Also, he keeps mentioning that he thinks e is scum but he's never really gone any further with it. Andrew, do you still think e is scummy? And if so, why?
-
Yipes, I'm very prodable at this point :-(
I haven't caught up in the past 24-ish hours, but I should get a little bit of time later tonight to catch up and do some re-reads. Really sorry!
-
"
Jim, what was this? A typo? You didn't post anything for a bit after this, so I'm kind of curious what it is.
-
Completely disagree. Play to win, using the best options available.
I'm also fine with scum giving up and moving on to the next game, by the way. We could all vote on that, too.
I agree with ash here. It's TWM's decision, but I would just go with whatever gives the best chance of winning, in this case the plan.
Vote: andrew I would be fine with, and if he flips town, e being so adamant about him would make me want to look at e tomorrow.
I agree that the hammers might prove tricky to get down correctly, but if this works, it's rare two town players can use their pr's so creatively and effectively, huge kudos to you.
-
Scum reread of Andrew:
Other than the tunneling, a few more things popped up:
Back in #747 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg694139#msg694139), he starts buddying TWM. He makes it not quite so strong in #1715 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg695461#msg695461) but goes stronger again later.
In #970 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg694375#msg694375) he's downplaying his scum abilities, which I think scum definitely does.
#1560 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg695240#msg695240) he's talking about how this game is different than his previous scum games. This could be him as scum knowing he's playing differently and trying to get people away from him.
Another thing I noted that I'm not sure if it's indicative of alignment is that there's actually several times he says he thinks someone is scum, but then he doesn't say any reasons, and never says anything else about it.
In the end, I read null-scum on Andrew. I don't see too much pointing to him being town and a bit pointing to him being scum. I could maybe vote for him but I hope I can find better scumreads.
-
Completely disagree. Play to win, using the best options available.
I'm also fine with scum giving up and moving on to the next game, by the way. We could all vote on that, too.
I agree with ash here. It's TWM's decision, but I would just go with whatever gives the best chance of winning, in this case the plan.
Vote: andrew I would be fine with, and if he flips town, e being so adamant about him would make me want to look at e tomorrow.
I agree that the hammers might prove tricky to get down correctly, but if this works, it's rare two town players can use their pr's so creatively and effectively, huge kudos to you.
I will point out that I've been interested in lynching Andrew since D1. Are you casing this against e instead of me because you have more reason to believe I am town (I posit that you do)?
-
I agree with almost everything Ash has said, as it was my exact reaction yesterday upon learning of the setup we've been handed. The counter arguments to the numbers working completely in our favor assume that each day we mislynch AND each night two town are NK'd for three consecutive days. That's 9 for 9 in town deaths which is just highly, highly unlikely.
That said, I disagree with his "lynch from the signup sheet" plan -
A) Because I'm first, am Town, and softclaim have utility that I believe will be beneficial to furthering town's chances of winning.
B) If Ash is scum and knows his partners are Sudgy and Jake, he's setting scum up to come back and win.
I would be in favor of random lynching, or lynching based off mcmc/TWM's highest scum reads or whatever.
But as of right now, given the current setup, I can't really bring myself to continue to play at the level I was. It takes a moderate amount of my time and is simply unnecessary.
(I'm not ceasing to play, but actively engaging in full rereads to scum hunt don't seem to serve much purpose)
While I don't think this sounds like defeated scum Galzria it doesn't sound like "let me make damn sure we do this right" town Galzria, either.
-
Fair point, same extends to you. Right now, I'm reading you townier than e.
-
I agree with almost everything Ash has said, as it was my exact reaction yesterday upon learning of the setup we've been handed. The counter arguments to the numbers working completely in our favor assume that each day we mislynch AND each night two town are NK'd for three consecutive days. That's 9 for 9 in town deaths which is just highly, highly unlikely.
That said, I disagree with his "lynch from the signup sheet" plan -
A) Because I'm first, am Town, and softclaim have utility that I believe will be beneficial to furthering town's chances of winning.
B) If Ash is scum and knows his partners are Sudgy and Jake, he's setting scum up to come back and win.
I would be in favor of random lynching, or lynching based off mcmc/TWM's highest scum reads or whatever.
But as of right now, given the current setup, I can't really bring myself to continue to play at the level I was. It takes a moderate amount of my time and is simply unnecessary.
(I'm not ceasing to play, but actively engaging in full rereads to scum hunt don't seem to serve much purpose)
While I don't think this sounds like defeated scum Galzria it doesn't sound like "let me make damn sure we do this right" town Galzria, either.
That's fair. It's just hard to give 110% to a game that's essentially won already. :P
That said - mcmc, how do you feel about dictating wagon votes?
If it takes 10 to lynch for example, and you/TWM need to be the last two, that leaves 8 people to be on the wagon first. The more scum that are on the wagon, the less likely they can steal the Hammer.
So if you round up your scum list (or yours and TWM's combined) and put them on the wagon - while not all likely to be scum you're reducing the odds (in your mind anyway) of a scum hammer steal. At least, it removes those players from being able to do so.
Obviously anybody unwilling to be on the wagon should probably be lynched instead in this case.
-
Vote Count 2.5
Cuzz (2): faust, AndrewisFTTW
O (1): Awaclus
AndrewisFTTW (3): Cuzz, pingpongsam, 2.71828....
SpaceAnemone (1): Eevee
Dylan23 (1): Galzria
LaLight (1): RoadRunner7671
faust (1): O
RoadRunner7671 (1): LaLight
sudgy (1): Dylan32
Not Voting (8.): SpaceAnemone, mcmcsalot, ashersky, JaketheBaseballGod22, sudgy, The_Wine_Merchant, Jimmmmm, iguanaiguana
With 20 alive it takes just 10 to lynch. Day 2 ends on Sunday, May 28th, at 11:00 AM Forum Time.
Lalight put andrew to L-6 and eevee put andrew to L-5. Remember just put this after your vote everytime, then it shouldn't be hard to keep track of.
I would vote for Andrew, so we need 3 people who want to vote andrew to lynch him.
awaclus what do you think about andrew?
-
awaclus what do you think about andrew?
I don't want to lynch him today because he isn't O.
-
awaclus what do you think about andrew?
I don't want to lynch him today because he isn't O.
Are you two Mafia/WW buddies? It would be the most perfect thing ever. O said it himself SO much d1. "Back when I was younger, I would bus all day, every day so that I could win as the only member of my faction alive" and "Awaclus is just a younger version of me", and and... omg - I could pull so many quotes. That would just be fantastic of you two. I REALLY hope this is a thing.
-
awaclus what do you think about andrew?
I don't want to lynch him today because he isn't O.
Are you two Mafia/WW buddies? It would be the most perfect thing ever. O said it himself SO much d1. "Back when I was younger, I would bus all day, every day so that I could win as the only member of my faction alive" and "Awaclus is just a younger version of me", and and... omg - I could pull so many quotes. That would just be fantastic of you two. I REALLY hope this is a thing.
Oh, right, TWM semi-cleared you. Well boo. It would still be fantasticly fun for you two have tried to pulled off.
-
awaclus what do you think about andrew?
I don't want to lynch him today because he isn't O.
Are you two Mafia/WW buddies? It would be the most perfect thing ever. O said it himself SO much d1. "Back when I was younger, I would bus all day, every day so that I could win as the only member of my faction alive" and "Awaclus is just a younger version of me", and and... omg - I could pull so many quotes. That would just be fantastic of you two. I REALLY hope this is a thing.
Ugh Vote: Galzria
-
The sign up order plan is coincidentally good.
-
awaclus what do you think about andrew?
I don't want to lynch him today because he isn't O.
Are you two Mafia/WW buddies? It would be the most perfect thing ever. O said it himself SO much d1. "Back when I was younger, I would bus all day, every day so that I could win as the only member of my faction alive" and "Awaclus is just a younger version of me", and and... omg - I could pull so many quotes. That would just be fantastic of you two. I REALLY hope this is a thing.
Ugh Vote: Galzria
Right? I mean, this is not "with the plan" Galzria at all.
-
awaclus what do you think about andrew?
I don't want to lynch him today because he isn't O.
Are you two Mafia/WW buddies? It would be the most perfect thing ever. O said it himself SO much d1. "Back when I was younger, I would bus all day, every day so that I could win as the only member of my faction alive" and "Awaclus is just a younger version of me", and and... omg - I could pull so many quotes. That would just be fantastic of you two. I REALLY hope this is a thing.
Ugh Vote: Galzria
Right? I mean, this is not "with the plan" Galzria at all.
For reference, since it's apparently not obvious - but the thought above hit me (and not in a serious way), I got a good long laugh out of the idea, and decided to share it with everyone. It was NOT a serious pursuit or opinion - more an observation of hilarity if that was a thing that could have existed in this game.
-
awaclus what do you think about andrew?
I don't want to lynch him today because he isn't O.
If we lynched O who would you want to lynch after that.
-
I actually really think iguana is scum in case that still matters at all.
-
Are you two Mafia/WW buddies?
No.
-
awaclus what do you think about andrew?
I don't want to lynch him today because he isn't O.
If we lynched O who would you want to lynch after that.
Someone else.
-
Yea that's not Galzria being scummy, I had the same thought that it'd be awesome if it were true. Hopefully it'll happen some game eventually.
To defend myself at least a bit, why are we sheeping Awaclus instead of TWM? if TWM is scum we only have WIFOM that Awaclus is town.
I do really think the largest whiners are the most likely to be scum, since they're the most sure that TWM/MCMC are town... so that'd be Ashersky, Faust, and Galzria I guess.
-
Ugh back to hating awaclus
Ppe 1: no one is wheeling him.
-
Ugh back to hating awaclus
Ppe 1: no one is wheeling him.
Sheeping*
-
Ugh back to hating awaclus
Ppe 1: no one is wheeling him.
PPS suggested it, that's all.
-
Yea that's not Galzria being scummy, I had the same thought that it'd be awesome if it were true. Hopefully it'll happen some game eventually.
To defend myself at least a bit, why are we sheeping Awaclus instead of TWM? if TWM is scum we only have WIFOM that Awaclus is town.
I do really think the largest whiners are the most likely to be scum, since they're the most sure that TWM/MCMC are town... so that'd be Ashersky, Faust, and Galzria I guess.
I think this is ash by far i mean what is this even:
I'm also fine with scum giving up and moving on to the next game, by the way. We could all vote on that, too.
-
Claimed it along time ago I think ash is the serial killer who literally cannot win if me and twm are town and get hammers.
Still would rather lynch andrew or eevee.
-
Yea that's not Galzria being scummy, I had the same thought that it'd be awesome if it were true. Hopefully it'll happen some game eventually.
To defend myself at least a bit, why are we sheeping Awaclus instead of TWM? if TWM is scum we only have WIFOM that Awaclus is town.
I do really think the largest whiners are the most likely to be scum, since they're the most sure that TWM/MCMC are town... so that'd be Ashersky, Faust, and Galzria I guess.
I can buy that mcmc and TWM might out themselves on this plan. Assuming a 5 man mafia team, do you really think they would out 3 of them? That only leaves 1 living unidentified scum. If the plan breaks down it's high probability of total loss for scum. I'm not saying that's not exactly what they are doing but that the more people they include in the plan that are actually scum the more likely it breaks in a catastrophic way for them and thus the less likely they are to do that thing.
-
Claimed it along time ago I think ash is the serial killer who literally cannot win if me and twm are town and get hammers.
Still would rather lynch andrew or eevee.
Ok, I know I got chewed out for this a while ago, but I literally can't help myself.
-
Yea that's not Galzria being scummy, I had the same thought that it'd be awesome if it were true. Hopefully it'll happen some game eventually.
To defend myself at least a bit, why are we sheeping Awaclus instead of TWM? if TWM is scum we only have WIFOM that Awaclus is town.
I do really think the largest whiners are the most likely to be scum, since they're the most sure that TWM/MCMC are town... so that'd be Ashersky, Faust, and Galzria I guess.
I think this is ash by far i mean what is this even:
I'm also fine with scum giving up and moving on to the next game, by the way. We could all vote on that, too.
Vote: Ashersky
he clearly wants out anyways :P
If MCMC is scum he gets a likely mislynch and a hider killed out of the claim, as well as just general PR mayhem and a lack of effort. There's plenty of incentive to claim even if he's scum. So this resignation of a broken game is way too premature unless he knows MCMC is town.
-
Yea that's not Galzria being scummy, I had the same thought that it'd be awesome if it were true. Hopefully it'll happen some game eventually.
To defend myself at least a bit, why are we sheeping Awaclus instead of TWM? if TWM is scum we only have WIFOM that Awaclus is town.
I do really think the largest whiners are the most likely to be scum, since they're the most sure that TWM/MCMC are town... so that'd be Ashersky, Faust, and Galzria I guess.
I can buy that mcmc and TWM might out themselves on this plan. Assuming a 5 man mafia team, do you really think they would out 3 of them? That only leaves 1 living unidentified scum. If the plan breaks down it's high probability of total loss for scum. I'm not saying that's not exactly what they are doing but that the more people they include in the plan that are actually scum the more likely it breaks in a catastrophic way for them and thus the less likely they are to do that thing.
Only MCMC has to have lied, no?
-
Yea that's not Galzria being scummy, I had the same thought that it'd be awesome if it were true. Hopefully it'll happen some game eventually.
To defend myself at least a bit, why are we sheeping Awaclus instead of TWM? if TWM is scum we only have WIFOM that Awaclus is town.
I do really think the largest whiners are the most likely to be scum, since they're the most sure that TWM/MCMC are town... so that'd be Ashersky, Faust, and Galzria I guess.
I think this is ash by far i mean what is this even:
I'm also fine with scum giving up and moving on to the next game, by the way. We could all vote on that, too.
Vote: Ashersky
he clearly wants out anyways :P
If MCMC is scum he gets a likely mislynch and a hider killed out of the claim, as well as just general PR mayhem and a lack of effort. There's plenty of incentive to claim even if he's scum. So this resignation of a broken game is way too premature unless he knows MCMC is town.
plus it could always be a mcmc/twm werewolf team. one can dream.
-
Yea that's not Galzria being scummy, I had the same thought that it'd be awesome if it were true. Hopefully it'll happen some game eventually.
To defend myself at least a bit, why are we sheeping Awaclus instead of TWM? if TWM is scum we only have WIFOM that Awaclus is town.
I do really think the largest whiners are the most likely to be scum, since they're the most sure that TWM/MCMC are town... so that'd be Ashersky, Faust, and Galzria I guess.
I can buy that mcmc and TWM might out themselves on this plan. Assuming a 5 man mafia team, do you really think they would out 3 of them? That only leaves 1 living unidentified scum. If the plan breaks down it's high probability of total loss for scum. I'm not saying that's not exactly what they are doing but that the more people they include in the plan that are actually scum the more likely it breaks in a catastrophic way for them and thus the less likely they are to do that thing.
Only MCMC has to have lied, no?
Today, yes. But after TWM hides behind mcmc tomorrow and doesn't die then we potentially have two liars. If that were the case then he is already lying about hiding behind awaclus. Now, that's a safe lie to make if Awaclus is, indeed, town but also if he is scum. the hing I'm pointing out is that I think scum would rather IC a town player in this gambit as opposed to out 3 of themselves. ergo the awaclus sheeping (which I'm not about anyhow).
-
As I expressed earlier, who better to IC from town when you are scum than Awaclus?
That said, if Awaclus is also scum and O is town then his dogged assertion we lynch O makes more sense, I suppose.
-
Vote: Ashersky
So this resignation of a broken game is way too premature unless he knows MCMC is town.
I can vibe to that. If the fix really is in I think Mafia has trouble prolonging the torture by trying to solve it out.
-
Vote: Ashersky
So this resignation of a broken game is way too premature unless he knows MCMC is town.
I can vibe to that. If the fix really is in I think Mafia has trouble prolonging the torture by trying to solve it out.
They would really have to be up for wifoming the shit out of this thing for IRL weeks potentially, and still need a miracle to pull it out.
-
As I expressed earlier, who better to IC from town when you are scum than Awaclus?
Someone whose reads are typically not as good as mine, for instance.
-
As I expressed earlier, who better to IC from town when you are scum than Awaclus?
Someone whose reads are typically not as good as mine, for instance.
It's going to be pysche-breaking to you when I flip town, clearly.
-
As I expressed earlier, who better to IC from town when you are scum than Awaclus?
Someone whose reads are typically not as good as mine, for instance.
It's going to be pysche-breaking to you when I flip town, clearly.
You will likely have read your PM wrong, playing under the assumption that you were SK the whole time.
-
Claimed it along time ago I think ash is the serial killer who literally cannot win if me and twm are town and get hammers.
Still would rather lynch andrew or eevee.
Ok, I know I got chewed out for this a while ago, but I literally can't help myself.
I don't know that twm is town. If I did I would be scum stop being unhelpful trying to catch slips. I hate that I even am being town read by you for mostly making that qt opens at twilight mistake. I had no idea if the qt did or did not open at twilight, I remembered a game where the scum qt did open at twilight and said that. Had the rules of this game been slightly different your read on me would have flipped and I hate that. Read people for their content not silly phrasing.
-
As I expressed earlier, who better to IC from town when you are scum than Awaclus?
Someone whose reads are typically not as good as mine, for instance.
It's going to be pysche-breaking to you when I flip town, clearly.
It's a good thing you aren't going to flip town in that case.
-
As I expressed earlier, who better to IC from town when you are scum than Awaclus?
Someone whose reads are typically not as good as mine, for instance.
It's going to be pysche-breaking to you when I flip town, clearly.
It's a good thing you aren't going to flip town in that case.
AKA "NUH UHHH!!"
-
I realized that I'm not getting through all players by the end of the day, so I'm going to pick the people that people are talking about first. So Andrew first.
I took Cuzz's post to be slightly sarcastic in a "I shouldn't have to explain this to you" way. Apparently that was incorrect. And are you implying that I was tunneling gkrieg? I wouldn't necessarily call it that considering I posted so little. And he wasn't my only scumread.
Just curious, who else were you scumreading D1?
So, Andrew doesn't have too much stuff. The main thing that's interesting (wow I use that word a lot) is that yesterday he was tunneling gkrieg, and now he's tunneling Cuzz today. I can see a town narrative, but it's a bit odd.
Also, he keeps mentioning that he thinks e is scum but he's never really gone any further with it. Andrew, do you still think e is scummy? And if so, why?
Disclaimer:
My reads suck this game. I was way behind D1 and I'm somewhat behind now. Thus I don't have much to back up my reads and I just occasionally see something that stands out to me and I can't really present a case to you like I would normally do. So in that respect yeah I'm a decent lynch today for not being all that valuable to town. But lynching town is bad so... don't lynch me.
-
Claimed it along time ago I think ash is the serial killer who literally cannot win if me and twm are town and get hammers.
Still would rather lynch andrew or eevee.
Ok, I know I got chewed out for this a while ago, but I literally can't help myself.
I don't know that twm is town. If I did I would be scum stop being unhelpful trying to catch slips. I hate that I even am being town read by you for mostly making that qt opens at twilight mistake. I had no idea if the qt did or did not open at twilight, I remembered a game where the scum qt did open at twilight and said that. Had the rules of this game been slightly different your read on me would have flipped and I hate that. Read people for their content not silly phrasing.
I disagree with the broader point you are making. Wording matters and I believe that scum and town will use different phrasing to express the same point. I am going to probe people for their wording on occasion
-
Scum reread of Andrew:
Other than the tunneling, a few more things popped up:
Back in #747 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg694139#msg694139), he starts buddying TWM. He makes it not quite so strong in #1715 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg695461#msg695461) but goes stronger again later.
Not buddying, just putting a read out there.
In #970 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg694375#msg694375) he's downplaying his scum abilities, which I think scum definitely does.
Maybe scum does this? But town does it too, case in point: me!
#1560 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg695240#msg695240) he's talking about how this game is different than his previous scum games. This could be him as scum knowing he's playing differently and trying to get people away from him.
But in this case it's town trying to get people away from him because lynching town is bad.
-
Claimed it along time ago I think ash is the serial killer who literally cannot win if me and twm are town and get hammers.
Still would rather lynch andrew or eevee.
Ok, I know I got chewed out for this a while ago, but I literally can't help myself.
I don't know that twm is town. If I did I would be scum stop being unhelpful trying to catch slips. I hate that I even am being town read by you for mostly making that qt opens at twilight mistake. I had no idea if the qt did or did not open at twilight, I remembered a game where the scum qt did open at twilight and said that. Had the rules of this game been slightly different your read on me would have flipped and I hate that. Read people for their content not silly phrasing.
I disagree with the broader point you are making. Wording matters and I believe that scum and town will use different phrasing to express the same point. I am going to probe people for their wording on occasion
Absolutely, I often type things up, and as scum, proof them and edit them and proof some more. As town I tend to just shit it out and fix any grammar, etc. after the fact.
-
Claimed it along time ago I think ash is the serial killer who literally cannot win if me and twm are town and get hammers.
Still would rather lynch andrew or eevee.
Ok, I know I got chewed out for this a while ago, but I literally can't help myself.
I don't know that twm is town. If I did I would be scum stop being unhelpful trying to catch slips. I hate that I even am being town read by you for mostly making that qt opens at twilight mistake. I had no idea if the qt did or did not open at twilight, I remembered a game where the scum qt did open at twilight and said that. Had the rules of this game been slightly different your read on me would have flipped and I hate that. Read people for their content not silly phrasing.
I disagree with the broader point you are making. Wording matters and I believe that scum and town will use different phrasing to express the same point. I am going to probe people for their wording on occasion
Absolutely, I often type things up, and as scum, proof them and edit them and proof some more. As town I tend to just shit it out and fix any grammar, etc. after the fact.
That said, I do that precisely so I don't make silly connections like you are latching onto. So, I'd be more likely to sound scummy as town...
-
Claimed it along time ago I think ash is the serial killer who literally cannot win if me and twm are town and get hammers.
Still would rather lynch andrew or eevee.
Ok, I know I got chewed out for this a while ago, but I literally can't help myself.
I don't know that twm is town. If I did I would be scum stop being unhelpful trying to catch slips. I hate that I even am being town read by you for mostly making that qt opens at twilight mistake. I had no idea if the qt did or did not open at twilight, I remembered a game where the scum qt did open at twilight and said that. Had the rules of this game been slightly different your read on me would have flipped and I hate that. Read people for their content not silly phrasing.
I disagree with the broader point you are making. Wording matters and I believe that scum and town will use different phrasing to express the same point. I am going to probe people for their wording on occasion
Absolutely, I often type things up, and as scum, proof them and edit them and proof some more. As town I tend to just shit it out and fix any grammar, etc. after the fact.
as a counterargument i attempt to spew random crap regardless of alignment.
-
Claimed it along time ago I think ash is the serial killer who literally cannot win if me and twm are town and get hammers.
Still would rather lynch andrew or eevee.
Ok, I know I got chewed out for this a while ago, but I literally can't help myself.
I don't know that twm is town. If I did I would be scum stop being unhelpful trying to catch slips. I hate that I even am being town read by you for mostly making that qt opens at twilight mistake. I had no idea if the qt did or did not open at twilight, I remembered a game where the scum qt did open at twilight and said that. Had the rules of this game been slightly different your read on me would have flipped and I hate that. Read people for their content not silly phrasing.
I disagree with the broader point you are making. Wording matters and I believe that scum and town will use different phrasing to express the same point. I am going to probe people for their wording on occasion
Absolutely, I often type things up, and as scum, proof them and edit them and proof some more. As town I tend to just shit it out and fix any grammar, etc. after the fact.
as a counterargument i attempt to spew random crap regardless of alignment.
I tried that for a long time. The problem is, the randomizers stop rolling you as scum and it ceases to be effective.
-
my clearly town play has been absolutely vital to our likely win here, though.
-
my clearly town play has been absolutely vital to our likely win here, though.
Has it, though?
I'm pretty sure mcmc's lucky guesses at the drafting game were vital.
Actually, we could make him claim answers, then all claim answers to check if he was right. There's our proof.
-
Also, given no other PRs matter except mcmc and TWM, I'm no worse a mislynch than anyone else.
I am admittedly disappointed and bored with this game, so feel zero need to stick around.
-
my clearly town play has been absolutely vital to our likely win here, though.
Has it, though?
I'm pretty sure mcmc's lucky guesses at the drafting game were vital.
Actually, we could make him claim answers, then all claim answers to check if he was right. There's our proof.
How is this any better than just claiming draft order? And how does it prove anything?
-
my clearly town play has been absolutely vital to our likely win here, though.
Has it, though?
I'm pretty sure mcmc's lucky guesses at the drafting game were vital.
Actually, we could make him claim answers, then all claim answers to check if he was right. There's our proof.
that was in fact the joke
-
my clearly town play has been absolutely vital to our likely win here, though.
Has it, though?
I'm pretty sure mcmc's lucky guesses at the drafting game were vital.
Actually, we could make him claim answers, then all claim answers to check if he was right. There's our proof.
How is this any better than just claiming draft order? And how does it prove anything?
Well, depends on his claim. If we do the math and his answers don't match up, he could be lying.
-
my clearly town play has been absolutely vital to our likely win here, though.
Has it, though?
I'm pretty sure mcmc's lucky guesses at the drafting game were vital.
Actually, we could make him claim answers, then all claim answers to check if he was right. There's our proof.
How is this any better than just claiming draft order? And how does it prove anything?
Well, depends on his claim. If we do the math and his answers don't match up, he could be lying.
Lying about what? About being HH?
-
my clearly town play has been absolutely vital to our likely win here, though.
Has it, though?
I'm pretty sure mcmc's lucky guesses at the drafting game were vital.
Actually, we could make him claim answers, then all claim answers to check if he was right. There's our proof.
How is this any better than just claiming draft order? And how does it prove anything?
Well, depends on his claim. If we do the math and his answers don't match up, he could be lying.
and scum have what incentive to tell the truth here at this point?
Just put ashersky out of his misery guys.. he's very clearly the best lynch. It's not even close. He's halfway admitted to being scum and has no desire to play.
-
my clearly town play has been absolutely vital to our likely win here, though.
Has it, though?
I'm pretty sure mcmc's lucky guesses at the drafting game were vital.
Actually, we could make him claim answers, then all claim answers to check if he was right. There's our proof.
How is this any better than just claiming draft order? And how does it prove anything?
Well, depends on his claim. If we do the math and his answers don't match up, he could be lying.
Lying about what? About being HH?
Yes.
-
my clearly town play has been absolutely vital to our likely win here, though.
Has it, though?
I'm pretty sure mcmc's lucky guesses at the drafting game were vital.
Actually, we could make him claim answers, then all claim answers to check if he was right. There's our proof.
How is this any better than just claiming draft order? And how does it prove anything?
Well, depends on his claim. If we do the math and his answers don't match up, he could be lying.
Lying about what? About being HH?
Yes.
ash, this makes no sense in the slightest.
-
my clearly town play has been absolutely vital to our likely win here, though.
Has it, though?
I'm pretty sure mcmc's lucky guesses at the drafting game were vital.
Actually, we could make him claim answers, then all claim answers to check if he was right. There's our proof.
How is this any better than just claiming draft order? And how does it prove anything?
Well, depends on his claim. If we do the math and his answers don't match up, he could be lying.
and scum have what incentive to tell the truth here at this point?
Just put ashersky out of his misery guys.. he's very clearly the best lynch. It's not even close. He's halfway admitted to being scum and has no desire to play.
Same incentive they always have. Most games, scum don't lie at all -- unless it comes to claims, there's nothing really to lie about.
On the last part -- being disappointed we won by breaking the setup isn't alignment-indicative. I actually think it's worse for town, given we haven't earned the win. Scum has a built-in excuse for losing now. I'd argue -- for their sake -- it shouldn't count against their stats, or at least include an *. This is a non-offensive reinoe situation, bureaucratically speaking.
-
my clearly town play has been absolutely vital to our likely win here, though.
Has it, though?
I'm pretty sure mcmc's lucky guesses at the drafting game were vital.
Actually, we could make him claim answers, then all claim answers to check if he was right. There's our proof.
How is this any better than just claiming draft order? And how does it prove anything?
Well, depends on his claim. If we do the math and his answers don't match up, he could be lying.
and scum have what incentive to tell the truth here at this point?
Just put ashersky out of his misery guys.. he's very clearly the best lynch. It's not even close. He's halfway admitted to being scum and has no desire to play.
Same incentive they always have. Most games, scum don't lie at all -- unless it comes to claims, there's nothing really to lie about.
On the last part -- being disappointed we won by breaking the setup isn't alignment-indicative. I actually think it's worse for town, given we haven't earned the win. Scum has a built-in excuse for losing now. I'd argue -- for their sake -- it shouldn't count against their stats, or at least include an *. This is a non-offensive reinoe situation, bureaucratically speaking.
Are we assuming that TWM is a high draft role and that scum couldn't have just grabbed that slot? The draft is part of the game here, and it's quite apparent if the truth was told the draft was played poorly, balance issues aside.
-
my clearly town play has been absolutely vital to our likely win here, though.
Has it, though?
I'm pretty sure mcmc's lucky guesses at the drafting game were vital.
Actually, we could make him claim answers, then all claim answers to check if he was right. There's our proof.
How is this any better than just claiming draft order? And how does it prove anything?
Well, depends on his claim. If we do the math and his answers don't match up, he could be lying.
Lying about what? About being HH?
Yes.
ash, this makes no sense in the slightest.
Neither does wasting time doing anything other than whack-a-voting, but folks seem to want to waste their time coming up with conspiracies and reads.
Occam's Razor points to a won game for us. If people want to ignore that, might as well do some claiming for folks to analyze.
-
I'm also fine with scum giving up and moving on to the next game, by the way. We could all vote on that, too.
I just don't see town ever suggesting to mafia that they FF. It'd be borderline rude as a town player. It's not just that you're unhappy with the setup, I didn't vote for you until someone quoted me this comment in particular.
-
my clearly town play has been absolutely vital to our likely win here, though.
Has it, though?
I'm pretty sure mcmc's lucky guesses at the drafting game were vital.
Actually, we could make him claim answers, then all claim answers to check if he was right. There's our proof.
How is this any better than just claiming draft order? And how does it prove anything?
Well, depends on his claim. If we do the math and his answers don't match up, he could be lying.
and scum have what incentive to tell the truth here at this point?
Just put ashersky out of his misery guys.. he's very clearly the best lynch. It's not even close. He's halfway admitted to being scum and has no desire to play.
Same incentive they always have. Most games, scum don't lie at all -- unless it comes to claims, there's nothing really to lie about.
On the last part -- being disappointed we won by breaking the setup isn't alignment-indicative. I actually think it's worse for town, given we haven't earned the win. Scum has a built-in excuse for losing now. I'd argue -- for their sake -- it shouldn't count against their stats, or at least include an *. This is a non-offensive reinoe situation, bureaucratically speaking.
Are we assuming that TWM is a high draft role and that scum couldn't have just grabbed that slot? The draft is part of the game here, and it's quite apparent if the truth was told the draft was played poorly, balance issues aside.
I think the only scum conspiracy possibly here is actually mcmc lying while knowing HH isn't in the game. Given The complexities of the math and knowing mcmc is like me, he could get tripped up with math claiming.
All that said, I don't think he's lying and this is all a waste of time.
-
I'm also fine with scum giving up and moving on to the next game, by the way. We could all vote on that, too.
I just don't see town ever suggesting to mafia that they FF. It'd be borderline rude as a town player. It's not just that you're unhappy with the setup, I didn't vote for you until someone quoted me this comment in particular.
Rude? I think it's the opposite -- I'm letting them know I won't be upset by a forfeit. I think some players, if they are Town, might resent losing the opportunity to crush some souls, so to speak. And I think some players would assume I'm one of those players.
-
vote: ashersky
-
I actually really think iguana is scum in case that still matters at all.
What's the case? And why do you imply it doesn't matter?
-
I actually really think iguana is scum in case that still matters at all.
What's the case? And why do you imply it doesn't matter?
He's simultaneously agreeing with me that the game is done and not worth trying on while scumreading me for the same attitude.
-
New plan!
Everyone list all other players in proposed lynch order. Poetic, since it sort of mimics the draft order part of the game.
-
I actually really think iguana is scum in case that still matters at all.
What's the case? And why do you imply it doesn't matter?
He's simultaneously agreeing with me that the game is done and not worth trying on while scumreading me for the same attitude.
I contain multitudes.
-
I know Ash is being such a drama queen right now that it's hard to think about anyone else but I was actually asking Cuzz why he scumreads me.
-
New plan!
Everyone list all other players in proposed lynch order. Poetic, since it sort of mimics the draft order part of the game.
I'll bite:
ashersky
AndrewisFTTW
Jimmmmm
iguanaiguana
SpaceAnemone
Eevee
faust
JaketheBaseballGod22
sudgy
RoadRunner
LaLight
Dylan32
Galzria
2.71828.....
pingpongsam
O
mcmcsalot
Awaclus
The_Wine_Merchant
-
I know Ash is being such a drama queen right now that it's hard to think about anyone else but I was actually asking Cuzz why he scumreads me.
Mostly I got a pretty scummy vibe from the vote on Galz, and I think there was some stuff from D1 that I can't quite remember. Plus the level of activity seems to be in the scum sweet spot.
-
There is a slight chance that we have some kind of lie here, if only because I really don't see Robz just letting his brother break the setup.
From the order of operations as posted, I assume that Hiding cannot be redirected through Lightning Rod? Even though I don't think that makes sense.
-
It would make me happy if we could lynch Cuzz today.
-
Never have I ever been town AND been high on everyone's town reads list. This must be my mafia nadir.
-
New plan!
Everyone list all other players in proposed lynch order. Poetic, since it sort of mimics the draft order part of the game.
Sure, why not?:
Dylan
Eevee
LaLight
Sudgy
**My top 4 scum reads right now**
Andrew
Jimmm
**mcmc's choice and someone who's posted like, nothing**
Ashersky
RoadRunner
Jake
Space
iguana
e
**middle of the pack, don't care really**
O
Cuzz
PPS
**Pretty strong town reads**
faust
Awaclus
TWM
mcmc
**Very likely to be town (or town has *@$#ed themselves already), and highest town read**
-
From the order of operations as posted, I assume that Hiding cannot be redirected through Lightning Rod? Even though I don't think that makes sense.
That is my understanding--maybe because lightning rod is considered to be "targeting" anyone who performs a night action, and hider causes all actions targeted at the hider to fail.
-
I agree with almost everything Ash has said, as it was my exact reaction yesterday upon learning of the setup we've been handed. The counter arguments to the numbers working completely in our favor assume that each day we mislynch AND each night two town are NK'd for three consecutive days. That's 9 for 9 in town deaths which is just highly, highly unlikely.
That said, I disagree with his "lynch from the signup sheet" plan -
A) Because I'm first, am Town, and softclaim have utility that I believe will be beneficial to furthering town's chances of winning.
B) If Ash is scum and knows his partners are Sudgy and Jake, he's setting scum up to come back and win.
I would be in favor of random lynching, or lynching based off mcmc/TWM's highest scum reads or whatever.
But as of right now, given the current setup, I can't really bring myself to continue to play at the level I was. It takes a moderate amount of my time and is simply unnecessary.
(I'm not ceasing to play, but actively engaging in full rereads to scum hunt don't seem to serve much purpose)
While I don't think this sounds like defeated scum Galzria it doesn't sound like "let me make damn sure we do this right" town Galzria, either.
That's fair. It's just hard to give 110% to a game that's essentially won already. :P
That said - mcmc, how do you feel about dictating wagon votes?
If it takes 10 to lynch for example, and you/TWM need to be the last two, that leaves 8 people to be on the wagon first. The more scum that are on the wagon, the less likely they can steal the Hammer.
So if you round up your scum list (or yours and TWM's combined) and put them on the wagon - while not all likely to be scum you're reducing the odds (in your mind anyway) of a scum hammer steal. At least, it removes those players from being able to do so.
Obviously anybody unwilling to be on the wagon should probably be lynched instead in this case.
I don't like controlling votes. It's not 100% that we win (although it is close), so I would like people to lynch like "normal" and just have mcmc hammer (with twm also, etc.).
-
I got three posts written up while on the bus without internet access, so here they go:
In some of my rereading, I've been wondering: what's PSA? I've seen people say it a lot, but I don't actually know what it means.
-
Alright, town-reread on Eevee:
Eevee doesn't have much substance for a long time. The first thing that seemed actually towny to me was #1118, where he talks about how he likes to be authentic and that's why he hasn't said anything. Maybe I just like that because I try to be similar, I don't know.
Nothing really stands out, except #2012. Before this, Eevee had a scumread on mcmc, then in this post (after the claim), he says that he "had a hunch he might be some sort of unusual pr." Eevee, can you explain this?
That's all I got from this reread. Most of it just seemed pretty null or made sense for town to do, but he didn't seem all that towny through it all.
-
Now scum-reread on Eevee:
#275 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg693600#msg693600) seems scummy, but that's just too obvious to actually be anything.
He doesn't post reads for a while. His first read is a townread (not wanting to lynch) on TWM in #452 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg693792#msg693792). Interesting how both Eevee and Andrew seemed to be buddying TWM.
As someone else mentioned (I can't remember who), #836 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg694231#msg694231) could implicate the most active players as being scum if Eevee's scum.
Now that I've looked at it myself, Eevee is unusually sheepy.
Eevee mentions multiple times the fact that he is town. I can't remember if he does that normally, but it is interesting and something that I want to stay wary of.
In the end, I'm at null-scum with Eevee too. Nothing really sticks out in the whole thing, but there's a few things that seem fishy.
-
Sorry, forgot to put links on that first one.
-
Anyway, seeing ash's reactions now I would be happy voting him. That's a lot how I would expect scum to react. How many votes does he have?
-
I know Ash is being such a drama queen right now that it's hard to think about anyone else but I was actually asking Cuzz why he scumreads me.
Mostly I got a pretty scummy vibe from the vote on Galz, and I think there was some stuff from D1 that I can't quite remember. Plus the level of activity seems to be in the scum sweet spot.
Funny because I got a scummy vibe from the post from Galz. His tone changed remarkably toward defeat after the plan for town to win came out. Combine that with my previous scumread on him and I think he's by far our best lynch for today. If I'm wrong, at least I followed my conviction instead of letting scum manipulate my reads.
As for my level of activity, I frankly think that's a really poopy reason to vote for a person. My wife doesn't like that I play this game and that it distracts me from other things in my life, so our compromise is that I play exactly one hour a day. I make what posts I can during that time, and may occasionally be able to comment during another point in the day if it works out / if work is slow. If I could play more, I would. Sometimes I get a chance when I can put a lot of time into this without taking time away from IRL people I care about, and then I always do it.
-
I don't like controlling votes. It's not 100% that we win (although it is close), so I would like people to lynch like "normal" and just have mcmc hammer (with twm also, etc.).
Close to 100% are the best odds town ever has.
-
I don't like controlling votes. It's not 100% that we win (although it is close), so I would like people to lynch like "normal" and just have mcmc hammer (with twm also, etc.).
Close to 100% are the best odds town ever has.
Given the choice, I'll take 99% over 98%. Scumhunting will do that.
-
The Defeated Hang Dogs
Ashersky
Galzria
The maybe actually scum based on reads
Andrew
Lalight
Eevee
The I thought this guy would commandeer the most winning of wins
faust
The who cares because they're not playing anyways
Dylan32
Jimmmmm
Jake
RoadRunner
iguana
The, well, they're not me so maybe they could be scum and well, they're playing the game so we should probably not unless we have to
Cuzz
Space (not really but reading them town but not that town)
sudgy
e
O
The townies of town reads
Awaclus
TWM
mcmcsalot
PPS
mcmc
-
I can buy that mcmc and TWM might out themselves on this plan. Assuming a 5 man mafia team, do you really think they would out 3 of them? That only leaves 1 living unidentified scum. If the plan breaks down it's high probability of total loss for scum. I'm not saying that's not exactly what they are doing but that the more people they include in the plan that are actually scum the more likely it breaks in a catastrophic way for them and thus the less likely they are to do that thing.
Actually, are we giving McMcsalot too much credibility too soon? By his own admission, McMc is obsessed with all or nothing "flawless" scum victories. Look at this:
I will look insanely scummy in order to save my partner over bussing. Look at the amount of flawless scum victories I have compared to anything else
maybe you should go back to not trying to read me. Remember mM94 where i was a scum inventor and I gave you a follow power night one and played it cool and acted towny and slowly saved my super strong hammerer invention to get the scum team a double lynch at the end of the game and surprise flawless win. Why here does scum!mcmc act like an overeager buffoon and clamer for the hammer day 1...
As you can see I was sorry. Also I don't know why people find it so scummy to name scum teams, it's not like my reads arent going to change after another set of flips. I think the one of the better ways I could scumhunt would be to analyze every combination of four players and see how they work as a unit. Obviously I don't have the time to do that so once I get some scum reads (twm/andrew/galz) I look for every connection I can to see if they fit as a unit. This may go back to how I play as scum compared to others, I typically either lose or win flawlessly and have a plan on how to act as a unit to get what we want done.
Then there is the issue of his having thought of a very complex plan, which involves interactions between multiple roles. Yes, it's possible that he thought of this on his own, but it would be easier for a team to come up with a plan like this. It was a long N0 - plenty of time for the scum team to come up with the plan of bidding for the hider box & the hammer hero box and proposing this plan to town in order to ensure their faction gets the win.
The only thing we are guaranteeing by following the plan is that McMcsalot and TWM's faction wins the game. But we still don't have any reason to think they are both town.
He can even invite investigation if the scum team can make educated guesses about what kinds of investigation exist in the game and what don't. Maybe the team also has Godfatherer. Maybe he's not actually HH (he could bluff and take "deathproof" every time) and he's investigation immune.
I'm not saying lynch McMcsalot now but we can't take it for granted that he is town at all.
-
Anyone who won the HH slot can claim, after he claims, if there is doubt.
I'll do my list tomorrow, it's late here. Expect awesomeness.
Remember, regardless of your alignment, I'm your best shot at winning.
-
agree with much of iguana's post above, at the level of "we should all spend some mental energy exploring this" as opposed to actually leaning scum on mcmc and/or twm.
....we could always just lynch mcmc and keep the game interesting. it's not like it's anywhere close to an auto-loss for town if we're wrong, though we would feel like total chumps. but we'll feel like chumps too if we all go along with the plan and they turn out to be scum
-
The fact that not everyone, and especially certain someone's aren't making the same wild-eyed maybe it's a trap assertions quite frankly makes me think it's a done deal and Mafia is toast. Mafia knows what roles town has just not who has them right? So they know if we have a HH and Hider combo. If we do it explains the giving up from some of the stronger players.
-
Anyone who won the HH slot can claim, after he claims, if there is doubt.
I'll do my list tomorrow, it's late here. Expect awesomeness.
Remember, regardless of your alignment, I'm your best shot at winning.
Am I missing something because I feel like ash and I are playing different games
-
The who cares because they're not playing anyways
iguana
BTW, as I said to Cuzz, I AM playing this game, and I DO take offense to all of your claims that I am not playing this. Again, the days where I can sink more than an hour into playing this are inconsistent (today it is working out for me to be here for a while), but I am playing, and thinking about this game. If my most recent previous post doesn't prove that I am analyzing this thing, I don't know what does.
Please don't write me off.
-
The who cares because they're not playing anyways
iguana
BTW, as I said to Cuzz, I AM playing this game, and I DO take offense to all of your claims that I am not playing this. Again, the days where I can sink more than an hour into playing this are inconsistent (today it is working out for me to be here for a while), but I am playing, and thinking about this game. If my most recent previous post doesn't prove that I am analyzing this thing, I don't know what does.
Please don't write me off.
I put you at the bottom of the list precisely because of this. The fact is, you are barely present despite your best efforts so I have no good read on you and you therefore belong in that section of the list (which is still a pretty good place to be since the higher up you go the more I want you lynched). I sympathize with your situation and appreciate any contributions you can make.
-
No worries 8)
-
The fact that not everyone, and especially certain someone's aren't making the same wild-eyed maybe it's a trap assertions quite frankly makes me think it's a done deal and Mafia is toast. Mafia knows what roles town has just not who has them right? So they know if we have a HH and Hider combo. If we do it explains the giving up from some of the stronger players.
Wait, why does mafia know what roles town has? I thought they would just know which roles were included among the random slots. And they'd know if they got outbid on certain slots, but even that doesn't give them specific roles necessarily.
-
Also, given no other PRs matter except mcmc and TWM, I'm no worse a mislynch than anyone else.
I am admittedly disappointed and bored with this game, so feel zero need to stick around.
Completely disagree. Play to win, using the best options available.
How is your attitude any worse than mine? I am at least trying to play the game as intended. You are just being whiney. Play to win ash, using the best options available. That includes reads and participation.
-
Also I think there is something mafia could do or find to be totally right back into this. That is all I am going to say about it.
-
Also I think there is something mafia could do or find to be totally right back into this. That is all I am going to say about it.
I have no doubts.
-
Everyone list all other players in proposed lynch order.
No thanks.
-
The fact that not everyone, and especially certain someone's aren't making the same wild-eyed maybe it's a trap assertions quite frankly makes me think it's a done deal and Mafia is toast. Mafia knows what roles town has just not who has them right? So they know if we have a HH and Hider combo. If we do it explains the giving up from some of the stronger players.
Wait, why does mafia know what roles town has? I thought they would just know which roles were included among the random slots. And they'd know if they got outbid on certain slots, but even that doesn't give them specific roles necessarily.
"For balance purposes, all Not-Town aligned players will be told exactly which PRs were randomly included in these slots. They will not be told which PRs, if any, were chosen."
Copy pasted from setup rather than quoting and deleting a bunch.
-
I'm just going to throw it out there that I completely trust mcmc. He seems like classic town!mcmc to me. I thought he was trying a bit too hard before he claimed, but then I remembered that this is how he plays when he's a PR.
-
The fact that not everyone, and especially certain someone's aren't making the same wild-eyed maybe it's a trap assertions quite frankly makes me think it's a done deal and Mafia is toast. Mafia knows what roles town has just not who has them right? So they know if we have a HH and Hider combo. If we do it explains the giving up from some of the stronger players.
Wait, why does mafia know what roles town has? I thought they would just know which roles were included among the random slots. And they'd know if they got outbid on certain slots, but even that doesn't give them specific roles necessarily.
It was a question, not a statement. It's my understanding based on what I recall from reading the setup. If I'm wrong about this I'd hope you'd see this is the opposite of a scumslip.
Reading over it now this line is the one I think I am misinterpreting, "For balance purposes, all Not-Town aligned players will be told exactly which PRs were randomly included in these slots. They will not be told which PRs, if any, were chosen."
So, it was the what PRs rolled into the random slots.
To be ultra clear. I actually bid for my role and won it from the slot it originated in. I even breadcrumbed this before the game started.
-
Also PPE the Dylan Ninja, lol
-
I'm just going to throw it out there that I completely trust mcmc. He seems like classic town!mcmc to me. I thought he was trying a bit too hard before he claimed, but then I remembered that this is how he plays when he's a PR.
Well, complete trust is reserved for ICs which he is not, but yeah, I am moving forward as if he is telling the truth until given sufficient evidence otherwise. I agree he was withing his meta. I was town reading the shit out of him before the claim.
-
The fact that not everyone, and especially certain someone's aren't making the same wild-eyed maybe it's a trap assertions quite frankly makes me think it's a done deal and Mafia is toast. Mafia knows what roles town has just not who has them right? So they know if we have a HH and Hider combo. If we do it explains the giving up from some of the stronger players.
Wait, why does mafia know what roles town has? I thought they would just know which roles were included among the random slots. And they'd know if they got outbid on certain slots, but even that doesn't give them specific roles necessarily.
It was a question, not a statement. It's my understanding based on what I recall from reading the setup. If I'm wrong about this I'd hope you'd see this is the opposite of a scumslip.
Oh, no, I was just making sure I understood correctly and hadn't missed something.
-
Two reminders. I still don't like the Andrew lynch. I was ready to give town points to anyone who asked "why" but no one has bothered.
Second. I am basically gone starting Friday morning. I will be at work then hitting the road. Access will be very much up in the air and my destination has no internet nor great phone access. If you want me to participate in the lynch it needs to be tomorrow night. So we basically have 24 hours.
-
Two reminders. I still don't like the Andrew lynch. I was ready to give town points to anyone who asked "why" but no one has bothered.
Second. I am basically gone starting Friday morning. I will be at work then hitting the road. Access will be very much up in the air and my destination has no internet nor great phone access. If you want me to participate in the lynch it needs to be tomorrow night. So we basically have 24 hours.
Why
-
Two reminders. I still don't like the Andrew lynch. I was ready to give town points to anyone who asked "why" but no one has bothered.
Second. I am basically gone starting Friday morning. I will be at work then hitting the road. Access will be very much up in the air and my destination has no internet nor great phone access. If you want me to participate in the lynch it needs to be tomorrow night. So we basically have 24 hours.
Can you get behind an ash lynch?
-
To clarify, I don't really care about the town points, but if we need you for the lynch in 24 hours, it's probably best if you share your agenda.
-
Catching up now! I'm going to write a bunch of comments as I go, because I think that's the only way I'm going to find time to interact with this game today!
I like the mcmc plan of being hammer hero. I think if TWM hides and doesn't die, then we're pretty safe. What if scum has the doctor role, though? Could they doctor TWM in order to give a false hider result?
Why is LL hesitant about questioning mcmc at #1885?
I get where faust is coming from at #1929 not wanting the game to be broken, but having some aliances forming out there among the sea of names is making it a little easier for me to get my head around.
At #1986, TWM is talking about not making it back in time for a night action. I'm pretty sure some mods will allow you to post conditional night actions, like "I want to do X if Y is lynched, or Z if that doesn't happen". RR seems to suggest the non-conditional version of this, but TWM rejects it at #1993. I think trying the conditional version on Robz in QT is still worth a try, though then it's also worth not telling the thread all about it in case someone manages to make your conditional technically true while at the same time not being what you wanted it to mean.
#1996 Oh dear.. I think I'm still the leading wagon based primarily on my having been a bit absent/disengaged, and now we're talking about an early lynch. I'm frustrated because I'm trying hard with the time I have available, but a game this size is really hard for me to get into, especially with so many unknown players. At least gkrieg read me correctly for once! Sad about him being dead now :-(
#2002 Urgh.. LL knows me better than this, surely?
#2025 Why don't people think that Cal would just play absolutely to his quiet struggling-to-do-D1 meta?
TWM's ideal group to look at is "Jimmmm, 2.7, sudgy, LaLight, Dylan" -- maybe that's a good set of people for me to re-read next time I get the time.
#2062 I have a bit of sympathy with sudgy's position, because I feel like he's being scumread for the same sort of thing I'd do!
Good townie point from LL about the sheeper and the Hammer Hero. But surely if mcmc casts the hammering vote, and PPS's ghost casts the one after it, mcmc gets the hammer, right? I'm sure I'm about to find out in another comment. Edit: I don't think anyone followed up on this. Isn't it stil safe to sheep mcmc if necessary, just not all that useful because the sheep vote comes in at L+1 rather than counting as a necessary vote for the hammer? It would still be worthwhile in the endgame if it gets down to the point where TWM and mcmc start getting outnumbered.
Ooh, ash wants a mathsy person :-) Here I am! I really should finish catching up first in case, but I should come back and do numbers. Though this is more just normal boring counting that actual fun probabilities, isn't it?
#2106 Cuzz seems suspicious of mcmc having devised the hider plan. I think if we rememebr that mcmc and Robz are close, and that there's been quite a lot of build-up to this game, then it's not very surprising that mcmc spent a while stretegising. He may even have been one of the people who talked the set-up over with Robz in advance, no?
Ah, I agree with the "play to win with the tools we have" response to TWM's suggestion about playing for more fun and less broken-setup-ness.
#2149 PPS is assuming a "5 man mafia team"... guess that's me cleared then :-)
#2182 -- I'm not quite sure where O is going with this.
I need to do one of those lynch order lists, but for that I need to do some reading first. I've been reading for 90 minutes here and I haven't even caught up to the present yet :-(
Okay.. here's the present, but I'm 38 minutes past bedtime already.
-
Andrew and Jimmmmm are my top choices at the moment. Eevee, sudgy and ash are possibilities also. Could also be talked into iguana and Jake.
What is your read on Jimmmmm based on?
lurking and dodging questions
What question did I dodge? I'm working on the lurking and I'm happy to answer all questions past and future.
-
"
Jim, what was this? A typo? You didn't post anything for a bit after this, so I'm kind of curious what it is.
See my post previous to this for a clue.
-
"
Jim, what was this? A typo? You didn't post anything for a bit after this, so I'm kind of curious what it is.
See my post previous to this for a clue.
Well you didn't dodge this question. So we can check off that one.
-
"
Jim, what was this? A typo? You didn't post anything for a bit after this, so I'm kind of curious what it is.
See my post previous to this for a clue.
Well you didn't dodge this question. So we can check off that one.
Progress!
-
I got three posts written up while on the bus without internet access, so here they go:
In some of my rereading, I've been wondering: what's PSA? I've seen people say it a lot, but I don't actually know what it means.
Public Service Announcement
-
Two reminders. I still don't like the Andrew lynch. I was ready to give town points to anyone who asked "why" but no one has bothered.
Second. I am basically gone starting Friday morning. I will be at work then hitting the road. Access will be very much up in the air and my destination has no internet nor great phone access. If you want me to participate in the lynch it needs to be tomorrow night. So we basically have 24 hours.
I don't mind lynching in 24 hours. I don't think you are a essential part of the lynch at all. mcmc is.
I mean, yeah. You are L-1, mcmc hammers. Nice, but not essential
-
Okay time to actually try something productive for a change.
Probably Town:
The_Wine_Merchant
Awaclus
pingpongsam
ashersky - I'd like to think I'm pretty good at reading scum ash, and I haven't gotten that vibe at all.
mcmcsalot
Towny enough for Today:
faust
Cuzz
No real opinion at this stage:
Galzria
Eevee
LaLight
2.71828.....
iguanaiguana
Jimmmmm oh that's me
sudgy
Would Lynch:
SpaceAnemone
Dylan32
RoadRunner
O
AndrewisFTTW
JaketheBaseballGod22
This is a fairly gut-instinct list. I'll focus some more on the bottom two sections and try to move around/solidify some of the names.
In general I'll more or less follow instruction from mcmc for Today and help coordinate a lynch if necessary.
-
Alright. Well do what you want then. Vote: sudgy
-
Alright. Well do what you want then. Vote: sudgy
Who are you talking to? I'll probably follow instruction from you as well.
-
Well, if the plan was to mostly random lynch with mild direction from reads, that sounds good to me, because I've been busier than I anticipated recently, so I'm good with following the plan.
I was about to sort people into would prefer to lynch or not, but it turned into just the order I would propose we lynch, so this doubles is both:
sudgy
eevee
Space
LaLight
Jake (way outside both town and scum meta to the point of legitimately lurking, by his own admission to try to avoid looking scummy)
***Null-ish section***
Andrew
RR (Has he posted in the last 24-48 hours? I don't remember him going this long without cracking a joke.)
iguana
Cuzz
Galz (I wouldn't be surprised no matter what Galz flips. Depending on how others flip, I feel I would figure it out, but in lieu of flips, I'm not sure)
O (Hard to believe I'm still null on O, but since I've never seen him, I just don't know what to make of him. Definitely would not want to lynch right away)
Jimmmmm (Nothing has really stood out at all. I don't think he would be that informative of a flip)
***lean town***
e
faust
Ash (might be the frustrated and resigned scum, but his eagerness to just get the game over with suggests either him sincerely wanting town to follow the most likely path to victory, resigned scum, or scum that knows town has just been bamboozled and is willing to give himself up a little bit to help mcmc and TWM continue the charade. For now, not worth lynching until we have reason to re-evaluate)
***Most likely town (No surprises)***
pps (Seems like town pps. Also claim un-contested. Sheeper would be the perfect role to fakeclaim to explain a lack of being NK'd though, so might be worth looking at later if things don't go well.)
TWM
awaclus
mcmc
***For sure town. IC in fact***
me (While I know I've been pretty low utility for town, I would also like to point out my signature and my record in town games (green) and scum games (red) and ask you to judge which alignment I tend to actually play better as. I hate that gkrieg was killed because he would probably back me up on that claim.)
-
Could everybody voting for me explain your reasoning for doing so?
-
me (While I know I've been pretty low utility for town, I would also like to point out my signature and my record in town games (green) and scum games (red) and ask you to judge which alignment I tend to actually play better as. I hate that gkrieg was killed because he would probably back me up on that claim.)
Probably not the best thing to draw attention to.
-
VLA until sunday, starting in a couple of hours, so I likely won't be around to help with lynching within 24 hours. My vote is on a viable wagon at least.
-
Also, given no other PRs matter except mcmc and TWM, I'm no worse a mislynch than anyone else.
I am admittedly disappointed and bored with this game, so feel zero need to stick around.
Completely disagree. Play to win, using the best options available.
How is your attitude any worse than mine? I am at least trying to play the game as intended. You are just being whiney. Play to win ash, using the best options available. That includes reads and participation.
This is oddly defensive from you. My response was just disagreeing with you, not calling out your attitude there.
And I disagree again. A Cop catching scum but not telling the rest of town because that'd be unfair to scum and to keep the game more fair and fun is not "playing the game as intended." The Cop was given tools, they should use them fully.
You and MCMC have been given tools on OUR BEHALF. If you don't use them to the best of your ability, in the way we have determined will just about guarantee our win, you are selfishly screwing over the rest of us in the name of your own definition of "fair play" and "fun."
Each of us owes it to the others of our faction to do whatever it takes to win, no matter what (within legal reason and the civility pledge).
-
Everyone list all other players in proposed lynch order.
No thanks.
You and MCMC are probably exempt from this exercise, actually.
-
agree with much of iguana's post above, at the level of "we should all spend some mental energy exploring this" as opposed to actually leaning scum on mcmc and/or twm.
....we could always just lynch mcmc and keep the game interesting. it's not like it's anywhere close to an auto-loss for town if we're wrong, though we would feel like total chumps. but we'll feel like chumps too if we all go along with the plan and they turn out to be scum
Or, we could always just lynch you. Then, we won't feel likek chumps and we can still take care of the mcmc/TWM situation later.
-
Thats the most compelling case against Cuzz so far this game tbh
-
Could everybody voting for me explain your reasoning for doing so?
Could you explain your reasoning for why people voting for you shouldn't?
-
Could everybody voting for me explain your reasoning for doing so?
Could you explain your reasoning for why people voting for you shouldn't?
Probably because they really ought to be voting for O!
-
Um...guys? The plan to claim your suggested lynch order was proposed by Ashersky. Dylan says that Ashersky is almost confirmed scum to him, but he still goes along with the plan. I think Ashersky is very scummy, so I'm not going to do what he asks. At the end of the day it's a choice to be made by mcmcsalot/TWM and maybe Awaclus, so I actually believe that this lynch order thing is just giving unnecessary information to scum.
-
Also, just in case I die at any point, I just want people to consider that TWM is not even close to confirmed town.
-
@TWM why did you take Hider over Motion Detector/Gambler?
-
Um...guys? The plan to claim your suggested lynch order was proposed by Ashersky. Dylan says that Ashersky is almost confirmed scum to him, but he still goes along with the plan. I think Ashersky is very scummy, so I'm not going to do what he asks. At the end of the day it's a choice to be made by mcmcsalot/TWM and maybe Awaclus, so I actually believe that this lynch order thing is just giving unnecessary information to scum.
Ashersky might be scum, but his plan is still probably his best effort at a pro-town plan. Even if it isn't, the plan should be judged by the merits of the plan, not by ash's scumminess or lack thereof.
-
Probably because they really ought to be voting for O!
That's true, but voting for anyone who can't explain why they're town is always a good idea.
-
Um...guys? The plan to claim your suggested lynch order was proposed by Ashersky. Dylan says that Ashersky is almost confirmed scum to him, but he still goes along with the plan. I think Ashersky is very scummy, so I'm not going to do what he asks. At the end of the day it's a choice to be made by mcmcsalot/TWM and maybe Awaclus, so I actually believe that this lynch order thing is just giving unnecessary information to scum.
Ashersky might be scum, but his plan is still probably his best effort at a pro-town plan. Even if it isn't, the plan should be judged by the merits of the plan, not by ash's scumminess or lack thereof.
Do you think it's a good plan?
-
Um...guys? The plan to claim your suggested lynch order was proposed by Ashersky. Dylan says that Ashersky is almost confirmed scum to him, but he still goes along with the plan. I think Ashersky is very scummy, so I'm not going to do what he asks. At the end of the day it's a choice to be made by mcmcsalot/TWM and maybe Awaclus, so I actually believe that this lynch order thing is just giving unnecessary information to scum.
Ashersky might be scum, but his plan is still probably his best effort at a pro-town plan. Even if it isn't, the plan should be judged by the merits of the plan, not by ash's scumminess or lack thereof.
Do you think it's a good plan?
Yeah.
-
Um...guys? The plan to claim your suggested lynch order was proposed by Ashersky. Dylan says that Ashersky is almost confirmed scum to him, but he still goes along with the plan. I think Ashersky is very scummy, so I'm not going to do what he asks. At the end of the day it's a choice to be made by mcmcsalot/TWM and maybe Awaclus, so I actually believe that this lynch order thing is just giving unnecessary information to scum.
Ashersky might be scum, but his plan is still probably his best effort at a pro-town plan. Even if it isn't, the plan should be judged by the merits of the plan, not by ash's scumminess or lack thereof.
Do you think it's a good plan?
Yeah.
But you hate sharing reads...
-
Sorry, I misread that. I thought we were talking about the original plan. I don't think there's any point in sharing lynch orders.
-
Dylan says that Ashersky is almost confirmed scum to him
Sorry, where did he say this?
-
Dylan says that Ashersky is almost confirmed scum to him
Sorry, where did he say this?
Yeah. RR is scum. I literally never said that. I think Ash is most likely town, but recognize he could be scum. Either way, I think the plan is pro-town, so we follow it.
-
Well, if the plan was to mostly random lynch with mild direction from reads, that sounds good to me, because I've been busier than I anticipated recently, so I'm good with following the plan.
I was about to sort people into would prefer to lynch or not, but it turned into just the order I would propose we lynch, so this doubles is both:
sudgy
eevee
Space
LaLight
Jake (way outside both town and scum meta to the point of legitimately lurking, by his own admission to try to avoid looking scummy)
***Null-ish section***
Andrew
RR (Has he posted in the last 24-48 hours? I don't remember him going this long without cracking a joke.)
iguana
Cuzz
Galz (I wouldn't be surprised no matter what Galz flips. Depending on how others flip, I feel I would figure it out, but in lieu of flips, I'm not sure)
O (Hard to believe I'm still null on O, but since I've never seen him, I just don't know what to make of him. Definitely would not want to lynch right away)
Jimmmmm (Nothing has really stood out at all. I don't think he would be that informative of a flip)
***lean town***
e
faust
Ash (might be the frustrated and resigned scum, but his eagerness to just get the game over with suggests either him sincerely wanting town to follow the most likely path to victory, resigned scum, or scum that knows town has just been bamboozled and is willing to give himself up a little bit to help mcmc and TWM continue the charade. For now, not worth lynching until we have reason to re-evaluate)
***Most likely town (No surprises)***
pps (Seems like town pps. Also claim un-contested. Sheeper would be the perfect role to fakeclaim to explain a lack of being NK'd though, so might be worth looking at later if things don't go well.)
TWM
awaclus
mcmc
***For sure town. IC in fact***
me (While I know I've been pretty low utility for town, I would also like to point out my signature and my record in town games (green) and scum games (red) and ask you to judge which alignment I tend to actually play better as. I hate that gkrieg was killed because he would probably back me up on that claim.)
What are you actually talking about????
-
Dylan says that Ashersky is almost confirmed scum to him
Sorry, where did he say this?
Yeah. RR is scum. I literally never said that. I think Ash is most likely town, but recognize he could be scum. Either way, I think the plan is pro-town, so we follow it.
Vote: Dylan I'm amply confused by everything dylan is saying.
-
Well, if the plan was to mostly random lynch with mild direction from reads, that sounds good to me, because I've been busier than I anticipated recently, so I'm good with following the plan.
I was about to sort people into would prefer to lynch or not, but it turned into just the order I would propose we lynch, so this doubles is both:
sudgy
eevee
Space
LaLight
Jake (way outside both town and scum meta to the point of legitimately lurking, by his own admission to try to avoid looking scummy)
***Null-ish section***
Andrew
RR (Has he posted in the last 24-48 hours? I don't remember him going this long without cracking a joke.)
iguana
Cuzz
Galz (I wouldn't be surprised no matter what Galz flips. Depending on how others flip, I feel I would figure it out, but in lieu of flips, I'm not sure)
O (Hard to believe I'm still null on O, but since I've never seen him, I just don't know what to make of him. Definitely would not want to lynch right away)
Jimmmmm (Nothing has really stood out at all. I don't think he would be that informative of a flip)
***lean town***
e
faust
Ash (might be the frustrated and resigned scum, but his eagerness to just get the game over with suggests either him sincerely wanting town to follow the most likely path to victory, resigned scum, or scum that knows town has just been bamboozled and is willing to give himself up a little bit to help mcmc and TWM continue the charade. For now, not worth lynching until we have reason to re-evaluate)
***Most likely town (No surprises)***
pps (Seems like town pps. Also claim un-contested. Sheeper would be the perfect role to fakeclaim to explain a lack of being NK'd though, so might be worth looking at later if things don't go well.)
TWM
awaclus
mcmc
***For sure town. IC in fact***
me (While I know I've been pretty low utility for town, I would also like to point out my signature and my record in town games (green) and scum games (red) and ask you to judge which alignment I tend to actually play better as. I hate that gkrieg was killed because he would probably back me up on that claim.)
What are you actually talking about????
@RR/Jake - you two haven't interacted with each other. Unusual, yes?
It's hard to interact with Jake if he barely meets the post minimum.
lol I'm just trying to not get into arguments that make everyone wanna lynch me.
Translation: All you are doing is trying not to get lynched.
-
Dylan says that Ashersky is almost confirmed scum to him
Sorry, where did he say this?
Yeah. RR is scum. I literally never said that. I think Ash is most likely town, but recognize he could be scum. Either way, I think the plan is pro-town, so we follow it.
Someone says something verifiably wrong with the person in question able to immediately dispute it, and the only conclusion is they must be scum?
-
@TWM why did you take Hider over Motion Detector/Gambler?
Cause duh.
-
Dylan says that Ashersky is almost confirmed scum to him
Sorry, where did he say this?
Yeah. RR is scum. I literally never said that. I think Ash is most likely town, but recognize he could be scum. Either way, I think the plan is pro-town, so we follow it.
Vote: Dylan I'm amply confused by everything dylan is saying.
Oh come on. This isn't even a hard to follow statement. The RR is scum is my read based on his reaction and misrepresentation of my words. I clarify that I think Ash is probably town, but even if he isn't, the plan that he was pushing is ultimately likely to secure a town victory, so I intend to follow it until we need to reevalutate.
PPE 1
-
Dylan says that Ashersky is almost confirmed scum to him
Sorry, where did he say this?
Yeah. RR is scum. I literally never said that. I think Ash is most likely town, but recognize he could be scum. Either way, I think the plan is pro-town, so we follow it.
Someone says something verifiably wrong with the person in question able to immediately dispute it, and the only conclusion is they must be scum?
Hyperbole is lost on you, isn't it? It is scummy RR, obviously not conf-scum, but it moves him up a couple slots towards the earlier end of my lynch list.
-
lol I'm just trying to not get into arguments that make everyone wanna lynch me.
Translation: All you are doing is trying not to get lynched.
Scum doesn't actually say that. People who do say that are those who know they are Town but nothing else.
-
Hyperbole is lost on you, isn't it?
Is that hyperbole?
-
Also, given no other PRs matter except mcmc and TWM, I'm no worse a mislynch than anyone else.
I am admittedly disappointed and bored with this game, so feel zero need to stick around.
Completely disagree. Play to win, using the best options available.
How is your attitude any worse than mine? I am at least trying to play the game as intended. You are just being whiney. Play to win ash, using the best options available. That includes reads and participation.
This is oddly defensive from you. My response was just disagreeing with you, not calling out your attitude there.
And I disagree again. A Cop catching scum but not telling the rest of town because that'd be unfair to scum and to keep the game more fair and fun is not "playing the game as intended." The Cop was given tools, they should use them fully.
You and MCMC have been given tools on OUR BEHALF. If you don't use them to the best of your ability, in the way we have determined will just about guarantee our win, you are selfishly screwing over the rest of us in the name of your own definition of "fair play" and "fun."
Each of us owes it to the others of our faction to do whatever it takes to win, no matter what (within legal reason and the civility pledge).
Again. I am not suggesting using my role differently just because it is fun or to give a fair fight. I am doing it because I am concerned about our long term ability to coordinate the hammering and want to use my role to identify scum or town for what its purpose was made for. So don't talk to me about what I owe you when you post about you don't care about this game anymore. I owe you nothing.
I am in it to win it. I just think I should do it differently than what has been told. You don't seem to be in it to win.
-
Well, if the plan was to mostly random lynch with mild direction from reads, that sounds good to me, because I've been busier than I anticipated recently, so I'm good with following the plan.
I was about to sort people into would prefer to lynch or not, but it turned into just the order I would propose we lynch, so this doubles is both:
sudgy
eevee
Space
LaLight
Jake (way outside both town and scum meta to the point of legitimately lurking, by his own admission to try to avoid looking scummy)
***Null-ish section***
Andrew
RR (Has he posted in the last 24-48 hours? I don't remember him going this long without cracking a joke.)
iguana
Cuzz
Galz (I wouldn't be surprised no matter what Galz flips. Depending on how others flip, I feel I would figure it out, but in lieu of flips, I'm not sure)
O (Hard to believe I'm still null on O, but since I've never seen him, I just don't know what to make of him. Definitely would not want to lynch right away)
Jimmmmm (Nothing has really stood out at all. I don't think he would be that informative of a flip)
***lean town***
e
faust
Ash (might be the frustrated and resigned scum, but his eagerness to just get the game over with suggests either him sincerely wanting town to follow the most likely path to victory, resigned scum, or scum that knows town has just been bamboozled and is willing to give himself up a little bit to help mcmc and TWM continue the charade. For now, not worth lynching until we have reason to re-evaluate)
***Most likely town (No surprises)***
pps (Seems like town pps. Also claim un-contested. Sheeper would be the perfect role to fakeclaim to explain a lack of being NK'd though, so might be worth looking at later if things don't go well.)
TWM
awaclus
mcmc
***For sure town. IC in fact***
me (While I know I've been pretty low utility for town, I would also like to point out my signature and my record in town games (green) and scum games (red) and ask you to judge which alignment I tend to actually play better as. I hate that gkrieg was killed because he would probably back me up on that claim.)
What are you actually talking about????
And as for the comment about your meta, perhaps I should have said your old and new metas rather than scum and town, since you changed your playstyle recently from how you were when you first started playing here. Even with your new meta you were engaged and questioning and would at least throw out comments about everything that went on. While probably unreasonable to expect a comment on everything in a game this size, you have just been almost entirely absent. Literally the only thing I actually remember you saying outside of this interaction was basically "scummy ^^" and I don't ever remember what it was about.
PPE 2
-
Hyperbole is lost on you, isn't it?
Is that hyperbole?
Probably :P
-
I kinda feel like mcmc should be directing the action a little bit more and I think it's weird that he isn't.
-
In my defense, I'm not actually scum.
-
Dylan says that Ashersky is almost confirmed scum to him
Sorry, where did he say this?
Yeah. RR is scum. I literally never said that. I think Ash is most likely town, but recognize he could be scum. Either way, I think the plan is pro-town, so we follow it.
Vote: Dylan I'm amply confused by everything dylan is saying.
Oh come on. This isn't even a hard to follow statement. The RR is scum is my read based on his reaction and misrepresentation of my words. I clarify that I think Ash is probably town, but even if he isn't, the plan that he was pushing is ultimately likely to secure a town victory, so I intend to follow it until we need to reevalutate.
PPE 1
Your misrepresenting my words so I think it's justified.
-
Well, if the plan was to mostly random lynch with mild direction from reads, that sounds good to me, because I've been busier than I anticipated recently, so I'm good with following the plan.
I was about to sort people into would prefer to lynch or not, but it turned into just the order I would propose we lynch, so this doubles is both:
sudgy
eevee
Space
LaLight
Jake (way outside both town and scum meta to the point of legitimately lurking, by his own admission to try to avoid looking scummy)
***Null-ish section***
Andrew
RR (Has he posted in the last 24-48 hours? I don't remember him going this long without cracking a joke.)
iguana
Cuzz
Galz (I wouldn't be surprised no matter what Galz flips. Depending on how others flip, I feel I would figure it out, but in lieu of flips, I'm not sure)
O (Hard to believe I'm still null on O, but since I've never seen him, I just don't know what to make of him. Definitely would not want to lynch right away)
Jimmmmm (Nothing has really stood out at all. I don't think he would be that informative of a flip)
***lean town***
e
faust
Ash (might be the frustrated and resigned scum, but his eagerness to just get the game over with suggests either him sincerely wanting town to follow the most likely path to victory, resigned scum, or scum that knows town has just been bamboozled and is willing to give himself up a little bit to help mcmc and TWM continue the charade. For now, not worth lynching until we have reason to re-evaluate)
***Most likely town (No surprises)***
pps (Seems like town pps. Also claim un-contested. Sheeper would be the perfect role to fakeclaim to explain a lack of being NK'd though, so might be worth looking at later if things don't go well.)
TWM
awaclus
mcmc
***For sure town. IC in fact***
me (While I know I've been pretty low utility for town, I would also like to point out my signature and my record in town games (green) and scum games (red) and ask you to judge which alignment I tend to actually play better as. I hate that gkrieg was killed because he would probably back me up on that claim.)
What are you actually talking about????
@RR/Jake - you two haven't interacted with each other. Unusual, yes?
It's hard to interact with Jake if he barely meets the post minimum.
lol I'm just trying to not get into arguments that make everyone wanna lynch me.
Translation: All you are doing is trying not to get lynched.
Lol do you want me and RR to go back to the way we used to play where we just made jokes and got lynched early for it because here I'm saying I don't want but it sounds like you wasn't me too. Complete and utter misrepresentation of words by you which you just said is very scummy.
-
In my defense, I'm not actually scum.
Me ethier.
-
I kinda feel like mcmc should be directing the action a little bit more and I think it's weird that he isn't.
Sorry had a busy day yesterday, work is pretty crazy which is when I do almost all my posting (I know not great) and the the season finale of survivor was on so I wasn't posting throughout that.
Now that it is a new day though and I don't think the conversations have been going in a productive direction.
I still want to lynch andrew/eevee/galz/lalight. If twm is so confident in sudgy we can lynch him too but I really don't think it's good for today.
I would prefer to lynch andrew or eevee today. Andrew was voting a confirmed townie yesterday and my town reads of pps/2.7/e were voting him. Eevee has continued to be a non faction in this game other than to post a "I believe mcmc yay" post and I think the movement of his votes yesterday were scummy.
-
I kinda feel like mcmc should be directing the action a little bit more and I think it's weird that he isn't.
Sorry had a busy day yesterday, work is pretty crazy which is when I do almost all my posting (I know not great) and the the season finale of survivor was on so I wasn't posting throughout that.
Now that it is a new day though and I don't think the conversations have been going in a productive direction.
I still want to lynch andrew/eevee/galz/lalight. If twm is so confident in sudgy we can lynch him too but I really don't think it's good for today.
I would prefer to lynch andrew or eevee today. Andrew was voting a confirmed townie yesterday and my town reads of pps/2.7/e were voting him. Eevee has continued to be a non faction in this game other than to post a "I believe mcmc yay" post and I think the movement of his votes yesterday were scummy.
Why me though?
-
Hammer hero Countdown (this should be correct)
Cuzz (2): faust, AndrewisFTTW
O (1): Awaclus
AndrewisFTTW (4): pingpongsam, 2.71828...., lalight, eevee
Dylan23 (1): Galzria
LaLight (1): RoadRunner7671
sudgy (2): Dylan32, The_Wine_Merchant
Galzria (1): iguanaiguana
Ashersky (2): O, Cuzz
Not Voting (8.): SpaceAnemone, mcmcsalot, ashersky, JaketheBaseballGod22, sudgy, Jimmmmm,
With 20 alive it takes just 10 to lynch. Day 2 ends on Sunday, May 28th, at 11:00 AM Forum Time.
-
Because I feel like you were scum reading me for reason I don't feel town!lalight scum reads me during day 1. Because I found your jumping on the jreggie wagon post scummy. Because I feel your interactions with galz/eevee whom I find scummy are slighty partnery. You are definitely toward the end of my want to lynch pool so there's plenty of room to change my read you just aren't striking me as towny the way other players are.
-
I know as town I'm susceptible to being buddies and suspicious of people scum reading me so I try really hard to look at why the person is town reading or scum reading me and see if it makes sense for that person as town. It's why I have a scum read on eevee but a town read on sudgy, both have buddied me but sudgy has gone out of his way to reference very accurate meta analysis of my play multiple times and before I ever had town cred from anyone and it was in a very "this is what o remember about mcmc if t helps anyone sort of way". Where as some of eevee's posts have struck me as very great job mcmc keep up the good work type of buddying.
-
vote: Andrew
largest wagon that our lord and savior approves of. lets get this moving.
-
I won't be around for too much of today, so I guess Vote: Andrew. L-4.
Just in case, could we get an actual vote count?
Thursday is one of my busiest days, but I should have some time later to check in.
-
Happy to switch back to Andrew but will wait for real vote count I think.
-
Could everybody voting for me explain your reasoning for doing so?
Could you explain your reasoning for why people voting for you shouldn't?
Alright, just reread myself, here's a few things I found:
This is super dope, I'm about to get a bunch of fake currency.
I was gonna look at Calamitas's interactions but 4 people already did that. Big games. I'll establish some reads I guess, but I won't make them public.
...why not make them public? I can't think of any reason why you shouldn't, and I can think of several that you should.
Scum doesn't care about reads at all, so I wouldn't have asked him this.
I was thinking about doing a whole bunch of work to reassess my TWM read but now I don't have to! Yay!
Realized that my wagon wasn't going to gain any traction since it was completely bogus?
It was actually because I realized a few of the things you had done that I said were scummy still fit a town narrative. That made me think about how I feel like I do scummy things a lot as town, so I was wondering if it was the same thing for you. I was going to reread you twice, once assuming you were town and seeing how well it fits the narrative, and once assuming you were scum. Then I was going to see which was more plausible.
Also, if I was scum, I think I would have stuck to tunneling you more. I've done it before so I could just point that out as my defense if it got me in trouble.
I think after explaining this you'll see why this is good evidence for me being town. As scum, I try to play like town as best as I can (others can attest to this). However, I realized that the whole TWM thing would have gone differently depending on if I was scum or town (if he hadn't claimed). As town, I started wondering if maybe he was town. As scum, I would have known he was town already and not even thought about reconsidering. It's kind of freaking me out that my scumplan wouldn't have worked in this situation. Anyway.
TWM, the one problem with saying who you're hiding behind early is that mafia could just kill you anyway after you have said two town players. Then we'll get two mislynches and your death. It's somewhat unlikely, but given the fact that mafia are already doing worse I think they are more likely to gamble with killing you.
As PPS said, no way does scum point this out.
I agree with almost everything Ash has said, as it was my exact reaction yesterday upon learning of the setup we've been handed. The counter arguments to the numbers working completely in our favor assume that each day we mislynch AND each night two town are NK'd for three consecutive days. That's 9 for 9 in town deaths which is just highly, highly unlikely.
That said, I disagree with his "lynch from the signup sheet" plan -
A) Because I'm first, am Town, and softclaim have utility that I believe will be beneficial to furthering town's chances of winning.
B) If Ash is scum and knows his partners are Sudgy and Jake, he's setting scum up to come back and win.
I would be in favor of random lynching, or lynching based off mcmc/TWM's highest scum reads or whatever.
But as of right now, given the current setup, I can't really bring myself to continue to play at the level I was. It takes a moderate amount of my time and is simply unnecessary.
(I'm not ceasing to play, but actively engaging in full rereads to scum hunt don't seem to serve much purpose)
While I don't think this sounds like defeated scum Galzria it doesn't sound like "let me make damn sure we do this right" town Galzria, either.
That's fair. It's just hard to give 110% to a game that's essentially won already. :P
That said - mcmc, how do you feel about dictating wagon votes?
If it takes 10 to lynch for example, and you/TWM need to be the last two, that leaves 8 people to be on the wagon first. The more scum that are on the wagon, the less likely they can steal the Hammer.
So if you round up your scum list (or yours and TWM's combined) and put them on the wagon - while not all likely to be scum you're reducing the odds (in your mind anyway) of a scum hammer steal. At least, it removes those players from being able to do so.
Obviously anybody unwilling to be on the wagon should probably be lynched instead in this case.
I don't like controlling votes. It's not 100% that we win (although it is close), so I would like people to lynch like "normal" and just have mcmc hammer (with twm also, etc.).
I think scum says to just give up and lynch randomly, and I have been completely opposed to that. Anything scum can do to make us stop scumhunting gives them a tiny bit greater of a chance to win.
-
Sorry had a busy day yesterday, work is pretty crazy which is when I do almost all my posting (I know not great) and the the season finale of survivor was on so I wasn't posting throughout that.
Now that it is a new day though and I don't think the conversations have been going in a productive direction.
I still want to lynch andrew/eevee/galz/lalight. If twm is so confident in sudgy we can lynch him too but I really don't think it's good for today.
I would prefer to lynch andrew or eevee today. Andrew was voting a confirmed townie yesterday and my town reads of pps/2.7/e were voting him. Eevee has continued to be a non faction in this game other than to post a "I believe mcmc yay" post and I think the movement of his votes yesterday were scummy.
You do realize this means absolutely nothing right?
Here are my preferred lynches in order:
Dylan32
Cuzz
LaLight
Jimm
ashersky
-
It's doesn't mean nothing, it means you were pushing an alternate wagon which was also on town. It doesn't mean you are guaranteed scum either but it means something.
-
It's doesn't mean nothing, it means you were pushing an alternate wagon which was also on town. It doesn't mean you are guaranteed scum either but it means something.
"That's not indicative of alignment!" is everyone's counterargument to everything in this game and it's a little tiresome.
-
Sorry had a busy day yesterday, work is pretty crazy which is when I do almost all my posting (I know not great) and the the season finale of survivor was on so I wasn't posting throughout that.
Now that it is a new day though and I don't think the conversations have been going in a productive direction.
I still want to lynch andrew/eevee/galz/lalight. If twm is so confident in sudgy we can lynch him too but I really don't think it's good for today.
I would prefer to lynch andrew or eevee today. Andrew was voting a confirmed townie yesterday and my town reads of pps/2.7/e were voting him. Eevee has continued to be a non faction in this game other than to post a "I believe mcmc yay" post and I think the movement of his votes yesterday were scummy.
You do realize this means absolutely nothing right?
Here are my preferred lynches in order:
Dylan32
Cuzz
LaLight
Jimm
ashersky
Wanna vote dylan?
-
It's doesn't mean nothing, it means you were pushing an alternate wagon which was also on town. It doesn't mean you are guaranteed scum either but it means something.
"That's not indicative of alignment!" is everyone's counterargument to everything in this game and it's a little tiresome.
Show me something that is 100& indicative of alignment.
But seriously, above all else this doesn't mean anything. How is me having my vote on gkrieg scummier than actually contributing a vote to the mislynch?
-
Sorry had a busy day yesterday, work is pretty crazy which is when I do almost all my posting (I know not great) and the the season finale of survivor was on so I wasn't posting throughout that.
Now that it is a new day though and I don't think the conversations have been going in a productive direction.
I still want to lynch andrew/eevee/galz/lalight. If twm is so confident in sudgy we can lynch him too but I really don't think it's good for today.
I would prefer to lynch andrew or eevee today. Andrew was voting a confirmed townie yesterday and my town reads of pps/2.7/e were voting him. Eevee has continued to be a non faction in this game other than to post a "I believe mcmc yay" post and I think the movement of his votes yesterday were scummy.
You do realize this means absolutely nothing right?
Here are my preferred lynches in order:
Dylan32
Cuzz
LaLight
Jimm
ashersky
Wanna vote dylan?
Vote: Dylan
-
It's doesn't mean nothing, it means you were pushing an alternate wagon which was also on town. It doesn't mean you are guaranteed scum either but it means something.
"That's not indicative of alignment!" is everyone's counterargument to everything in this game and it's a little tiresome.
Show me something that is 100& indicative of alignment.
But seriously, above all else this doesn't mean anything. How is me having my vote on gkrieg scummier than actually contributing a vote to the mislynch?
Because scum wants to be off wagon, see exhibit galzria.
-
Vote Count 2.6
Cuzz (1): faust
O (1): Awaclus
AndrewisFTTW (6): pingpongsam, 2.71828...., lalight, eevee, O, sudgy
Dylan23 (3): Galzria, AndrewisFTTW, JaketheBaseballGod22
LaLight (1): RoadRunner7671
sudgy (2): Dylan32, The_Wine_Merchant
Galzria (1): iguanaiguana
Ashersky (1): Cuzz
Not Voting (4): SpaceAnemone, mcmcsalot, ashersky, Jimmmmm,
With 20 alive it takes just 10 to lynch. Day 2 ends on Sunday, May 28th, at 11:00 AM Forum Time.
-
Scum doesn't care about reads at all, so I wouldn't have asked him this.
That couldn't be further from the truth. Scum wants to know whether or not they're being scumread and preferably the reasons why, so that they can NK and adjust their playstyle accordingly. Town, on the other hand, doesn't really benefit from knowing reads at all.
It was actually because I realized a few of the things you had done that I said were scummy still fit a town narrative. That made me think about how I feel like I do scummy things a lot as town, so I was wondering if it was the same thing for you. I was going to reread you twice, once assuming you were town and seeing how well it fits the narrative, and once assuming you were scum. Then I was going to see which was more plausible.
That's some basic stuff and you could have easily realized it as scum just as well.
As PPS said, no way does scum point this out.
PPS hasn't had a great record of saying things that are true this game.
I think scum says to just give up and lynch randomly, and I have been completely opposed to that. Anything scum can do to make us stop scumhunting gives them a tiny bit greater of a chance to win.
Unless you're scum, in which case you get a better chance to win if we rely on reads and everyone townreads you, and you'll achieve both of these by opposing lynching randomly.
-
Vote: Andrew
-
L-3
-
Vote Count 2.6
Cuzz (1): faust
O (1): Awaclus
AndrewisFTTW (6): pingpongsam, 2.71828...., lalight, eevee, O, sudgy
Dylan23 (2): Galzria, AndrewisFTTW
LaLight (1): RoadRunner7671
sudgy (2): Dylan32, The_Wine_Merchant
Galzria (1): iguanaiguana
Ashersky (1): Cuzz
Not Voting (5): SpaceAnemone, mcmcsalot, ashersky, JaketheBaseballGod22, Jimmmmm,
With 20 alive it takes just 10 to lynch. Day 2 ends on Sunday, May 28th, at 11:00 AM Forum Time.
I'm voting dylan
-
Vote Count 2.6
Cuzz (1): faust
O (1): Awaclus
AndrewisFTTW (6): pingpongsam, 2.71828...., lalight, eevee, O, sudgy
Dylan23 (2): Galzria, AndrewisFTTW
LaLight (1): RoadRunner7671
sudgy (2): Dylan32, The_Wine_Merchant
Galzria (1): iguanaiguana
Ashersky (1): Cuzz
Not Voting (5): SpaceAnemone, mcmcsalot, ashersky, JaketheBaseballGod22, Jimmmmm,
With 20 alive it takes just 10 to lynch. Day 2 ends on Sunday, May 28th, at 11:00 AM Forum Time.
I'm voting dylan
Fixed
-
Ok. Vote: Andrew L-2.
-
Ok. Vote: Andrew L-2.
Only me or TWM were supposed to put people at L-2.
-
Ok. Vote: Andrew L-2.
Only me or TWM were supposed to put people at L-2.
I thought it just needed to be at L-2 for TWM and mcmc. Forgot about your part. my bad. unvote
-
Two reminders. I still don't like the Andrew lynch. I was ready to give town points to anyone who asked "why" but no one has bothered.
Second. I am basically gone starting Friday morning. I will be at work then hitting the road. Access will be very much up in the air and my destination has no internet nor great phone access. If you want me to participate in the lynch it needs to be tomorrow night. So we basically have 24 hours.
Why
Ok.
So here is why I think Andrew is a poor lynch. From what I understand Andrew is considered a good lynch for the following reasons:
1. Tunneling known town members - I don't see this as scummy. Let's actually look at other games and see if that adds up. Looking at M96 where I was mafia with him, he didn't tunnel. He bounced around and more importantly lightly buss. You can't buss someone who ends up being town.
2. Getting into an argument with Cuzz - Cuzz seems like an easy guy to get into an argument with and Andrew I think is slightly more likely to argue than others. That is personality.
3. Buddying me - Andrew and I have been involved with each other for a bit here. I have said this before. We have been partners, he modded a game with me in it and superbly townread each other last game (M98). He can read me and I think I can read him.
4. lurking - when Andrew is scum he posts more often.
People who have been pushing the Andrew wagon are on the suspicious end to me (Cuzz, PPS, Eevee, 2.7, sudgy) I don't know why PPS and Cuzz are getting general passes here. They might not be the best lynches right now, but I am seeing too many people declare them to be town when that isn't based off anything worthy of that read at all.
What it boils down to is that the reasons for the Andrew wagon aren't very good, the people pushing it are suspect and I have a strongish town read coming from someone that is nearly confirmed town and I think I have an above average ability to read him.
That is all.
-
Ok. Vote: Andrew L-2.
Only me or TWM were supposed to put people at L-2.
That only works if you are willing to vote for someone other than O. If you are then you or I can be L-2 or L-1. If you aren't. Well then that isn't going to work. Are you willing to vote for someone other than O?
-
Andrew should just claim.
-
The only person I have even a slight townread on right now voting for Andrew is O.
-
TWM who do you want to lynch instead who you can get 8 other people to agree with before tonight?
-
It's doesn't mean nothing, it means you were pushing an alternate wagon which was also on town. It doesn't mean you are guaranteed scum either but it means something.
"That's not indicative of alignment!" is everyone's counterargument to everything in this game and it's a little tiresome.
Show me something that is 100& indicative of alignment.
But seriously, above all else this doesn't mean anything. How is me having my vote on gkrieg scummier than actually contributing a vote to the mislynch?
Because scum wants to be off wagon, see exhibit galzria.
Um... No. Scum wanted to mislynch. Yes not all of the scum tram wants to be on the wagon but seriously, you know how many game town would lose if we followed your line of thinking right now?
By the way, Dylan is so scum it's ridiculous.
-
TWM who do you want to lynch instead who you can get 8 other people to agree with before tonight?
Probably no one. I have said I will lynch him if we have to, but I don't like it and I will FOS those who participate in on it without looking at other options.
I have repeatedly said I would rather look at sudgy, Jimmmm, 2.7, LaLight, Dylan
-
Sorry for the typos.
-
TWM you think I'm town? If so, please tell these lovely people why.
-
The Andrew wagon feels like we are completely ignoring the actual information we have from yesterday, the lynch wagons and the Calam flip and just reverting back to Day 1 sort of cases. I don't blame mcmc for this, but it is because the plan has made many people "lazy" and unwilling to actual go back and look at things.
-
TWM you think I'm town? If so, please tell these lovely people why.
Post 2306. I think does a decent job of it.
-
TWM who do you want to lynch instead who you can get 8 other people to agree with before tonight?
Probably no one. I have said I will lynch him if we have to, but I don't like it and I will FOS those who participate in on it without looking at other options.
I have repeatedly said I would rather look at sudgy, Jimmmm, 2.7, LaLight, Dylan
I could do Jimmmmm, but I thought you were the one on a timecrunch, so it seems a little counterproductive to derail the seemingly only viable wagon with your nebulous townread on Andrew.
-
TWM who do you want to lynch instead who you can get 8 other people to agree with before tonight?
Probably no one. I have said I will lynch him if we have to, but I don't like it and I will FOS those who participate in on it without looking at other options.
I have repeatedly said I would rather look at sudgy, Jimmmm, 2.7, LaLight, Dylan
I could do Jimmmmm, but I thought you were the one on a timecrunch, so it seems a little counterproductive to derail the seemingly only viable wagon with your nebulous townread on Andrew.
Unlike certain people, it seems like TWM is actually interested in lynching scum.
-
It's doesn't mean nothing, it means you were pushing an alternate wagon which was also on town. It doesn't mean you are guaranteed scum either but it means something.
"That's not indicative of alignment!" is everyone's counterargument to everything in this game and it's a little tiresome.
Show me something that is 100& indicative of alignment.
But seriously, above all else this doesn't mean anything. How is me having my vote on gkrieg scummier than actually contributing a vote to the mislynch?
Because scum wants to be off wagon, see exhibit galzria.
Um... No. Scum wanted to mislynch. Yes not all of the scum tram wants to be on the wagon but seriously, you know how many game town would lose if we followed your line of thinking right now?
By the way, Dylan is so scum it's ridiculous.
Andrew, you were my partner a few games ago. Can you honestly say I've been at all similar to that game, or any other game were I've been scum? I've literally maintained the same scum meta in all my scum games because I get townread for it and tend to survive. Why would I change what has been working splendidly just so I could say "that's what I do as scum" this game when doing so would ruin my ability to act that way in future games? No. It would have been better for hypothetical scum!me to maintain the same meta in this game until called out on it, and in a game this big, I doubt people would have even noticed...
PPE 5
-
It's doesn't mean nothing, it means you were pushing an alternate wagon which was also on town. It doesn't mean you are guaranteed scum either but it means something.
"That's not indicative of alignment!" is everyone's counterargument to everything in this game and it's a little tiresome.
Show me something that is 100& indicative of alignment.
But seriously, above all else this doesn't mean anything. How is me having my vote on gkrieg scummier than actually contributing a vote to the mislynch?
Because scum wants to be off wagon, see exhibit galzria.
Um... No. Scum wanted to mislynch. Yes not all of the scum tram wants to be on the wagon but seriously, you know how many game town would lose if we followed your line of thinking right now?
By the way, Dylan is so scum it's ridiculous.
Andrew, you were my partner a few games ago. Can you honestly say I've been at all similar to that game, or any other game were I've been scum? I've literally maintained the same scum meta in all my scum games because I get townread for it and tend to survive. Why would I change what has been working splendidly just so I could say "that's what I do as scum" this game when doing so would ruin my ability to act that way in future games? No. It would have been better for hypothetical scum!me to maintain the same meta in this game until called out on it, and in a game this big, I doubt people would have even noticed...
PPE 5
This is awful awful stuff and my mild townread on Dylan has now drifted away like pollen in a gentle spring breeze.
-
It's doesn't mean nothing, it means you were pushing an alternate wagon which was also on town. It doesn't mean you are guaranteed scum either but it means something.
"That's not indicative of alignment!" is everyone's counterargument to everything in this game and it's a little tiresome.
Show me something that is 100& indicative of alignment.
But seriously, above all else this doesn't mean anything. How is me having my vote on gkrieg scummier than actually contributing a vote to the mislynch?
Because scum wants to be off wagon, see exhibit galzria.
Um... No. Scum wanted to mislynch. Yes not all of the scum tram wants to be on the wagon but seriously, you know how many game town would lose if we followed your line of thinking right now?
By the way, Dylan is so scum it's ridiculous.
Yep
-
Twm how much time do you have left?
-
Twm how much time do you have left?
What would you say to dylan?
-
Twm how much time do you have left?
What would you say to dylan?
I'd say one person voting for him is the person I and many of my town reads currently believe is mafia(andrew) and the other person is someone I already suspected of being mafia who has since decided having two pseudo ic's means scumhunting and putting in time and effort is a waste of their time and has also been scummily absent from most of the discussion since claims happened(galzria)
So no definitively don't want to switch over to dylan close before our twm deadline because some people are balking at the andrew lynch. Remember scum is not going to help us lynch scum, if all the sudden 8 people are hyped up to lynch dylan despite him not recieving anywhere near that attention befor the claims I definitely don't want to do that.
-
Twm how much time do you have left?
What would you say to dylan?
I'd say one person voting for him is the person I and many of my town reads currently believe is mafia(andrew) and the other person is someone I already suspected of being mafia who has since decided having two pseudo ic's means scumhunting and putting in time and effort is a waste of their time and has also been scummily absent from most of the discussion since claims happened(galzria)
So no definitively don't want to switch over to dylan close before our twm deadline because some people are balking at the andrew lynch. Remember scum is not going to help us lynch scum, if all the sudden 8 people are hyped up to lynch dylan despite him not recieving anywhere near that attention befor the claims I definitely don't want to do that.
I think you and twm need to work this out then, because twm doesn't like the andrew wagon, which could get finished off shortly.
But also, again, twm is not 100% necessary if someone else is willing to coordinate with mcmc.
-
Twm how much time do you have left?
What would you say to dylan?
I'd say one person voting for him is the person I and many of my town reads currently believe is mafia(andrew) and the other person is someone I already suspected of being mafia who has since decided having two pseudo ic's means scumhunting and putting in time and effort is a waste of their time and has also been scummily absent from most of the discussion since claims happened(galzria)
So no definitively don't want to switch over to dylan close before our twm deadline because some people are balking at the andrew lynch. Remember scum is not going to help us lynch scum, if all the sudden 8 people are hyped up to lynch dylan despite him not recieving anywhere near that attention befor the claims I definitely don't want to do that.
There's three people voting him but we can approach this subject agian tomorrow I guess. I will vote Andrew if you need me too.
-
You already know I would vote Andrew
-
You already know I would vote Andrew
But your a untrustworthy scum
-
Twm how much time do you have left?
What would you say to dylan?
I'd say one person voting for him is the person I and many of my town reads currently believe is mafia(andrew) and the other person is someone I already suspected of being mafia who has since decided having two pseudo ic's means scumhunting and putting in time and effort is a waste of their time and has also been scummily absent from most of the discussion since claims happened(galzria)
So no definitively don't want to switch over to dylan close before our twm deadline because some people are balking at the andrew lynch. Remember scum is not going to help us lynch scum, if all the sudden 8 people are hyped up to lynch dylan despite him not recieving anywhere near that attention befor the claims I definitely don't want to do that.
He was also VLA and not posting before the claims though
-
@jake who was v/la?
-
@jake who was v/la?
Dylan I believe
-
I am willing to switch to Dylan. Clearly I am fine with Andrew, too.
-
I am willing to switch to Dylan. Clearly I am fine with Andrew, too.
Name the people who want to lynch dylan please.
-
I am willing to switch to Dylan. Clearly I am fine with Andrew, too.
Name the people who want to lynch dylan please.
Jake, TWM, and Andrew have expressed explicit interest in it. I'd have to dig some but I know somebody else was on about him earlier.
-
Oh, yeah, Galzria who is parked there already alongside Andrew
-
Oh, yeah, Galzria who is parked there already alongside Andrew
And me
-
Well, you are wrong and I am trustworthy but misread town, but town won't be losing much if it desides I'm not who I say I am, so if I end up the lynch today I don't really care as long as people stick to the plan and mcmc gets the hammer.
-
I would be ok with Dylan, but prefer Andrew. I'm a little uneasy about how hard Andrew is pushing Dylan, though, so I dunno.
-
I am willing to switch to Dylan. Clearly I am fine with Andrew, too.
Name the people who want to lynch dylan please.
Jake, TWM, and Andrew have expressed explicit interest in it. I'd have to dig some but I know somebody else was on about him earlier.
Oh, yeah, Galzria who is parked there already alongside Andrew
Do you have town reads on these people other than twm?
-
I would be ok with Dylan, but prefer Andrew. I'm a little uneasy about how hard Andrew is pushing Dylan, though, so I dunno.
Same question I posed to pps to you. Other than twm how do you find galz, the creator of the jreggie wagon who slipped off it, jake, who hasn't done much other than parked a scum read/vote on me for awhile, and Andrew, who is your preferred lynch, townie proponents of this new dylan wagon?
-
I would be ok with Dylan, but prefer Andrew. I'm a little uneasy about how hard Andrew is pushing Dylan, though, so I dunno.
Same question I posed to pps to you. Other than twm how do you find galz, the creator of the jreggie wagon who slipped off it, jake, who hasn't done much other than parked a scum read/vote on me for awhile, and Andrew, who is your preferred lynch, townie proponents of this new dylan wagon?
Or we could lynch Cuzz.
-
I would be ok with Dylan, but prefer Andrew. I'm a little uneasy about how hard Andrew is pushing Dylan, though, so I dunno.
Same question I posed to pps to you. Other than twm how do you find galz, the creator of the jreggie wagon who slipped off it, jake, who hasn't done much other than parked a scum read/vote on me for awhile, and Andrew, who is your preferred lynch, townie proponents of this new dylan wagon?
I honestly kinda have a townread on Galz, but I don't trust it very much. He's too good.
Jake I have nothing on. Probably deserves a real reread.
-
I would be ok with Dylan, but prefer Andrew. I'm a little uneasy about how hard Andrew is pushing Dylan, though, so I dunno.
Same question I posed to pps to you. Other than twm how do you find galz, the creator of the jreggie wagon who slipped off it, jake, who hasn't done much other than parked a scum read/vote on me for awhile, and Andrew, who is your preferred lynch, townie proponents of this new dylan wagon?
Or we could lynch Cuzz.
I don't think you and faust are quite enough votes.
-
I am willing to switch to Dylan. Clearly I am fine with Andrew, too.
Name the people who want to lynch dylan please.
Jake, TWM, and Andrew have expressed explicit interest in it. I'd have to dig some but I know somebody else was on about him earlier.
Oh, yeah, Galzria who is parked there already alongside Andrew
Do you have town reads on these people other than twm?
Nope, I'd be fine lynching Galzria too. Jake, meh, I'm null there.
-
I am willing to switch to Dylan. Clearly I am fine with Andrew, too.
Name the people who want to lynch dylan please.
Jake, TWM, and Andrew have expressed explicit interest in it. I'd have to dig some but I know somebody else was on about him earlier.
Oh, yeah, Galzria who is parked there already alongside Andrew
Do you have town reads on these people other than twm?
On Andrew I don't see him as scum here and as for galzria who i could see as scum here.
-
I am willing to switch to Dylan. Clearly I am fine with Andrew, too.
Name the people who want to lynch dylan please.
Jake, TWM, and Andrew have expressed explicit interest in it. I'd have to dig some but I know somebody else was on about him earlier.
Oh, yeah, Galzria who is parked there already alongside Andrew
Do you have town reads on these people other than twm?
Nope, I'd be fine lynching Galzria too. Jake, meh, I'm null there.
You should reread him. It won't take long.
-
I am willing to switch to Dylan. Clearly I am fine with Andrew, too.
Name the people who want to lynch dylan please.
Jake, TWM, and Andrew have expressed explicit interest in it. I'd have to dig some but I know somebody else was on about him earlier.
Oh, yeah, Galzria who is parked there already alongside Andrew
Do you have town reads on these people other than twm?
Nope, I'd be fine lynching Galzria too. Jake, meh, I'm null there.
So all I'm saying is you just said "sure I would switch my vote to that guy who has two people
I also want to lynch already voting for him..."
I would be fine doing galz over andrew, though galz said he's got some utility so maybe give him a night to do something with it.
-
Also andrew you should claim. There's a high percent chance you are getting lynched. You are at l-3, l-2 if you count my vote and others are willing to vote you. You would have hit l-1 if we weren't doing his hammer thing.
-
I would be ok with Dylan, but prefer Andrew. I'm a little uneasy about how hard Andrew is pushing Dylan, though, so I dunno.
Same question I posed to pps to you. Other than twm how do you find galz, the creator of the jreggie wagon who slipped off it, jake, who hasn't done much other than parked a scum read/vote on me for awhile, and Andrew, who is your preferred lynch, townie proponents of this new dylan wagon?
Or we could lynch Cuzz.
I don't think you and faust are quite enough votes.
So smug. And oh so scummy. Dare I day scmuggy?
-
Say. Not day. Totally ruined the joke.
-
Also andrew you should claim. There's a high percent chance you are getting lynched. You are at l-3, l-2 if you count my vote and others are willing to vote you. You would have hit l-1 if we weren't doing his hammer thing.
Not claiming.
-
I would be ok with Dylan, but prefer Andrew. I'm a little uneasy about how hard Andrew is pushing Dylan, though, so I dunno.
Same question I posed to pps to you. Other than twm how do you find galz, the creator of the jreggie wagon who slipped off it, jake, who hasn't done much other than parked a scum read/vote on me for awhile, and Andrew, who is your preferred lynch, townie proponents of this new dylan wagon?
Or we could lynch Cuzz.
I don't think you and faust are quite enough votes.
So smug. And oh so scummy. Dare I day scmuggy?
So weird, that was the name of my terrier as a child.
-
I would prefer to lynch andrew or eevee today. Andrew was voting a confirmed townie yesterday and my town reads of pps/2.7/e were voting him.
Is that why Andrew is the leading wagon? This is crap. Almost everyone voted for a (more or less) confirmed townie on D1; that's not a scum tell.
-
Two reminders. I still don't like the Andrew lynch. I was ready to give town points to anyone who asked "why" but no one has bothered.
Second. I am basically gone starting Friday morning. I will be at work then hitting the road. Access will be very much up in the air and my destination has no internet nor great phone access. If you want me to participate in the lynch it needs to be tomorrow night. So we basically have 24 hours.
Why
Ok.
So here is why I think Andrew is a poor lynch. From what I understand Andrew is considered a good lynch for the following reasons:
1. Tunneling known town members - I don't see this as scummy. Let's actually look at other games and see if that adds up. Looking at M96 where I was mafia with him, he didn't tunnel. He bounced around and more importantly lightly buss. You can't buss someone who ends up being town.
2. Getting into an argument with Cuzz - Cuzz seems like an easy guy to get into an argument with and Andrew I think is slightly more likely to argue than others. That is personality.
3. Buddying me - Andrew and I have been involved with each other for a bit here. I have said this before. We have been partners, he modded a game with me in it and superbly townread each other last game (M98). He can read me and I think I can read him.
4. lurking - when Andrew is scum he posts more often.
People who have been pushing the Andrew wagon are on the suspicious end to me (Cuzz, PPS, Eevee, 2.7, sudgy) I don't know why PPS and Cuzz are getting general passes here. They might not be the best lynches right now, but I am seeing too many people declare them to be town when that isn't based off anything worthy of that read at all.
What it boils down to is that the reasons for the Andrew wagon aren't very good, the people pushing it are suspect and I have a strongish town read coming from someone that is nearly confirmed town and I think I have an above average ability to read him.
That is all.
I'm glad I have at least one of the supposed ICs agreeing with me.
-
I would prefer to lynch andrew or eevee today. Andrew was voting a confirmed townie yesterday and my town reads of pps/2.7/e were voting him.
Is that why Andrew is the leading wagon? This is crap. Almost everyone voted for a (more or less) confirmed townie on D1; that's not a scum tell.
YES! Guys, faust is killing it this game. Listen to him! (not being sarcastic)
-
The leading wagons are both utter nonsense.
Here's a list of people we should lynch:
Cuzz
Cuzz
Cuzz
sudgy
Eevee
pps
-
unvote
-
There's also a weird sense of urgency here. We still have like 3 days left, right?
-
The leading wagons are both utter nonsense.
Here's a list of people we should lynch:
Cuzz
Cuzz
Cuzz
sudgy
Eevee
pps
I agreed with 2 of those four, so if I'm not supposed to put Andrew any closer to L-1, I'll put my vote back to Vote: sudgy
-
faust why do you want to lynch pps?
-
There's also a weird sense of urgency here. We still have like 3 days left, right?
Blame TWM for that
-
There's also a weird sense of urgency here. We still have like 3 days left, right?
TWM going VLA very soon, if we want him to be able to coordinate it was gonna have to happen pretty soon.
-
The leading wagons are both utter nonsense.
Here's a list of people we should lynch:
Cuzz
Cuzz
Cuzz
sudgy
Eevee
pps
What's the cuzz case snarky mcsnark face. I'll lynch eevee
-
There's also a weird sense of urgency here. We still have like 3 days left, right?
because twm was going to be vla and people wanted him to be part of the lynch
ppe: ditto
-
The leading wagons are both utter nonsense.
Here's a list of people we should lynch:
Cuzz
Cuzz
Cuzz
sudgy
Eevee
pps
What's the cuzz case snarky mcsnark face. I'll lynch eevee
could do that too
-
I am willing to switch to Dylan. Clearly I am fine with Andrew, too.
Name the people who want to lynch dylan please.
Jake, TWM, and Andrew have expressed explicit interest in it. I'd have to dig some but I know somebody else was on about him earlier.
Oh, yeah, Galzria who is parked there already alongside Andrew
Do you have town reads on these people other than twm?
Nope, I'd be fine lynching Galzria too. Jake, meh, I'm null there.
So all I'm saying is you just said "sure I would switch my vote to that guy who has two people
I also want to lynch already voting for him..."
I would be fine doing galz over andrew, though galz said he's got some utility so maybe give him a night to do something with it.
right. What I'm saying is I am certainly happy voting Andrew but the climate started to shift around and Dylan looked like something the lynch mob was considering and I was fueling the fire by saying i would, in fact, also lynch him if it won't be Andrew. When I was questioned about it I said also Galz because when the HH claim came through I think he tipped his hand.
I prefer Andrew because I've been pushing it since D1 and no one ever goes along with my plans so that would be neat. Also, if he is scum, I would feel majorly vindicated. so it's pretty selfish really. That said, I do think he is more likely to flip scum than not per his behavior.
My biggest gut certainty is on Galzria being scum but I think we can get around to that tomorrow as there is a lot of momentum to sway in a short time to do that one today.
Dylan, I might have to reread but he definitely fit the bill for would lynches and momentum seemed to be moving that way so I confirmed my willingness to switch. I'm just trying to help one go through. There are very few people I wouldn't lynch today, I just have preferences.
hope that clears that up some?
-
faust why do you want to lynch pps?
Nice deflecting.
Anyway pps is too much in the background and too reasonable. Also I think he rather to the whole mcmc/TWM/Awaclus thingy in a scummy manner.
-
Dylan's insistence we do this thing soon for coordination while being a potential candidate looks really towny to me. I'm feeling better about Andrew but best about Galz.
-
There's also a weird sense of urgency here. We still have like 3 days left, right?
because twm was going to be vla and people wanted him to be part of the lynch
ppe: ditto
Ah. Well, we can just let Awaclus handle it, can't we? I don't think cutting the day short is quite worth it.
-
faust why do you want to lynch pps?
Nice deflecting.
Anyway pps is too much in the background and too reasonable. Also I think he rather to the whole mcmc/TWM/Awaclus thingy in a scummy manner.
This what Town PR, non RMM, PPS looks like. Plus I've been town for like 8 games in a row, it's starting to affect me in a way I don't play like scum to protect my scum game.
-
In fact I don't see how we need any special townie person for the L-1 vote.
-
faust why do you want to lynch pps?
Nice deflecting.
Anyway pps is too much in the background and too reasonable. Also I think he rather to the whole mcmc/TWM/Awaclus thingy in a scummy manner.
deflecting? you want to lynch me and I'd prefer you didn't. there's not much else to discuss there.
I have a massive townread on pps as I think do others and a null one on you so wanted to hear the reasoning
-
faust why do you want to lynch pps?
Nice deflecting.
Anyway pps is too much in the background and too reasonable. Also I think he rather to the whole mcmc/TWM/Awaclus thingy in a scummy manner.
This what Town PR, non RMM, PPS looks like. Plus I've been town for like 8 games in a row, it's starting to affect me in a way I don't play like scum to protect my scum game.
Hmm, I forgot about your sheeper stuff. That probably means we should not lynch you.
-
pps, thoughts on eevee?
-
faust why do you want to lynch pps?
Nice deflecting.
Anyway pps is too much in the background and too reasonable. Also I think he rather to the whole mcmc/TWM/Awaclus thingy in a scummy manner.
Not sure how you characterize my play as "in the background". I'm going to give you benefit of the doubt and translate that to "didn't do some screamingly attention grabbing thing to pull the spotlight to him to try to control the game out of the gate".
In this game I recognized potential for our PRs to do good things and for my PR to potentiate that. My goal has been to find town reads to sheep. Otherwise I think I have been very present on all points of discussion, transparent on my reads (which, admittedly, is newer than anything I've ever done), and responsive to any questions leveled at me.
-
PPE you remembered my PR
-
faust why do you want to lynch pps?
Nice deflecting.
Anyway pps is too much in the background and too reasonable. Also I think he rather to the whole mcmc/TWM/Awaclus thingy in a scummy manner.
This what Town PR, non RMM, PPS looks like. Plus I've been town for like 8 games in a row, it's starting to affect me in a way I don't play like scum to protect my scum game.
Hmm, I forgot about your sheeper stuff. That probably means we should not lynch you.
Because it's likely I'm town or because you know I sheeped a town target?
-
pps, thoughts on eevee?
Eevee, the player reminds me of town. But he does that when he is scum, too. The cases on eevee don't seem overly fetched and I am not wholly opposed to his lynch. I think we have better lynches today, though.
-
There's also a weird sense of urgency here. We still have like 3 days left, right?
Blame TWM for that
Dude. I already told you that you don't need me. Don't blame whatever anxiety you or others have on me. You are not acting like your normal self at all this game. What is up with you?
-
pps, thoughts on eevee?
Eevee, the player reminds me of town. But he does that when he is scum, too. The cases on eevee don't seem overly fetched and I am not wholly opposed to his lynch. I think we have better lynches today, though.
what do you think of faust?
-
faust why do you want to lynch pps?
Nice deflecting.
Anyway pps is too much in the background and too reasonable. Also I think he rather to the whole mcmc/TWM/Awaclus thingy in a scummy manner.
This what Town PR, non RMM, PPS looks like. Plus I've been town for like 8 games in a row, it's starting to affect me in a way I don't play like scum to protect my scum game.
Hmm, I forgot about your sheeper stuff. That probably means we should not lynch you.
Because it's likely I'm town or because you know I sheeped a town target?
Because I think you're unlikely to choose that role as scum, and if you are scum, then you have a weak role and it's better to lynch your partners. (You could be lying about your role, but looking at that slot the other roles aren't really useful for scum either.
-
TWM who do you want to lynch instead who you can get 8 other people to agree with before tonight?
Probably no one. I have said I will lynch him if we have to, but I don't like it and I will FOS those who participate in on it without looking at other options.
I have repeatedly said I would rather look at sudgy, Jimmmm, 2.7, LaLight, Dylan
I could do Jimmmmm, but I thought you were the one on a timecrunch, so it seems a little counterproductive to derail the seemingly only viable wagon with your nebulous townread on Andrew.
It is the only viable wagon because no one has done any work elsewhere. And I am not derailing it. I said I can hammer if that is what people want/need me to do. And I have been speaking out against Andrew all day long. This isn't my first foray into saying he is a bad lynch.
-
Twm how much time do you have left?
Again. I am available until tonight. But you don't need me to lynch. But I would prefer that the day end before I leave so I can be confident in my night action submission. Yes I know I can do a conditional one and I will, but if the hammer plan does get messed up I want to be able to assess whom to hide behind/or not hide based off the day itself. So if you want me to be able to do that, then it needs to be around my VLA schedule. If not, then fine.
-
pps, thoughts on eevee?
Eevee, the player reminds me of town. But he does that when he is scum, too. The cases on eevee don't seem overly fetched and I am not wholly opposed to his lynch. I think we have better lynches today, though.
what do you think of faust?
faust is scaring me this game. I've been watching him the most from the beginning of the game because I wanted to sheep him if I felt he was town as I trust his reads the most. I've never gotten a strong town sense from him, though. I don't think faust ever gives strong scum vibes but he vibes hard when town so it leads me to suspect him. I would be very hard pressed to vote him, especially today, but I don't trust him, either. His insistence on lynching cuzz just seems out of sorts. I don't recall him being a tunneler, especially this early. If he has a claim to make that would confirm cuzz to be scum I'd love to hear it. Otherwise, he has softclaimed and I do trust faust to reveal at the correct point and I'm not pushing him on that. I also trust him to breadcrumb so if he dies at night he will have told us enough to piece together something. in short, he's a terrible lynch today.
-
Also vote: 2.7
I am as confident that he is scum as I am confident that Andrew is town. Let's put it that way.
-
Also interesting that not a single person advocating for the Andrew lynch has even acknowledged my points on why he might be a bad wagon. This lynch feels like it is playing right into scum's hands and maybe it doesn't matter and we will win anyways, but I am not taking this game for granted.
-
Also vote: 2.7
I am as confident that he is scum as I am confident that Andrew is town. Let's put it that way.
The only person you should have town confidence in is Awaclus, if you are telling the truth.
-
pps, thoughts on eevee?
Eevee, the player reminds me of town. But he does that when he is scum, too. The cases on eevee don't seem overly fetched and I am not wholly opposed to his lynch. I think we have better lynches today, though.
what do you think of faust?
faust is scaring me this game. I've been watching him the most from the beginning of the game because I wanted to sheep him if I felt he was town as I trust his reads the most. I've never gotten a strong town sense from him, though. I don't think faust ever gives strong scum vibes but he vibes hard when town so it leads me to suspect him. I would be very hard pressed to vote him, especially today, but I don't trust him, either. His insistence on lynching cuzz just seems out of sorts. I don't recall him being a tunneler, especially this early. If he has a claim to make that would confirm cuzz to be scum I'd love to hear it. Otherwise, he has softclaimed and I do trust faust to reveal at the correct point and I'm not pushing him on that. I also trust him to breadcrumb so if he dies at night he will have told us enough to piece together something. in short, he's a terrible lynch today.
i definitely don't want to lynch faust today, but I wanted your input.
I get a sort of town vibe from faust, but as he himself has pointed out, my townreads are perhaps slightly too highly influenced activity level. So when I think to myself "well then who of the most active people might be scum?" I come back to faust himself. That might just be a lot of omgus, though. Funny, this game
(also spoiler alert: he does not have a claim to make that would confirm cuzz as scum)
-
Also vote: 2.7
I am as confident that he is scum as I am confident that Andrew is town. Let's put it that way.
The only person you should have town confidence in is Awaclus, if you are telling the truth.
TWM can read me, you can't. This is what I've learned this game.
-
Also vote: 2.7
I am as confident that he is scum as I am confident that Andrew is town. Let's put it that way.
Ugh I could not have more of a town read on 2.7
-
Also vote: 2.7
I am as confident that he is scum as I am confident that Andrew is town. Let's put it that way.
Ugh I could not have more of a town read on 2.7
I mean I could but blah this stinks the amount we disagree on our reads. It makes sense why we were finding eachother scummy day one at least.
-
Also vote: 2.7
I am as confident that he is scum as I am confident that Andrew is town. Let's put it that way.
Ugh I could not have more of a town read on 2.7
Same
-
Also vote: 2.7
I am as confident that he is scum as I am confident that Andrew is town. Let's put it that way.
Ugh I could not have more of a town read on 2.7
Same
Well, it could always be more, like mod confirmation or something. but otherwise, yeah, I don't think he can do much more to help it along.
-
I'm out for about 4 hours.
-
I'm here for 45 minutes, then gone until late tonight. Andrew isn't my favorite lynch, do we really think we can get someone else?
-
We have plenty of time, I have actually decided a plan that I can coordinate with any player for the hammer though I have to check with robz, it might count as cryptography. Either way we don't need twm so vote for your scum read and explain it. Just treat the game like normal. Still would be happy to lynch galz.
-
Faust what are your thoughts on galz?
-
We have plenty of time, I have actually decided a plan that I can coordinate with any player for the hammer though I have to check with robz, it might count as cryptography. Either way we don't need twm so vote for your scum read and explain it. Just treat the game like normal. Still would be happy to lynch galz.
Well, so far, Andrew and Eevee are the highest scumreads, even though they aren't that high. There's others I'm willing to look at as well but I can't quite do that right now. I know I don't want to lynch galz.
-
Anyway here comes the glorious case on Cuzz:
A tl;dr up here. The main points are:
- his case on Andrew shows a scum point of view.
- his reads, especially early, are generic
- his turnaround on mcmc is unconvincing
- he puts a lot of emphasis on the fact that he is town
- he wants to push an Andrew lynch through before any other wagon can form
Also Cuzz and SpaceAnemone are definitely partners. Look at their avatars.
pretty sure I've had this avatar since M10.
Ah, M10. Our debut.
vote: galzria
ok serious Vote: ashersky for this hit and run
Take this as just an example of Cuzz' early-game votes. They all follow the same pattern - point out something that is generally perceived as scummy, and then vote with that reason. There's very little original thought needed for that, and especially in the early game that good for scum because they can easliy have some fake reads.
Not reading a bunch of fluff might be anti fun, and it could even be anti town. My point is that posting a lot of stuff, regardless of what that stuff is, is scummy because gumming up the thread is an easy tactic to use here, and it's fairly effective.
This is so empirically anti-town I want us to lynch RR now.
You will hit an anti-town player, but I don't think you'll be hitting scum.
It's D1 and we're not likely going to lynch scum anyway. Lynching confirmed anti-town is worlds better than lynching a pro-town townie who just happened to get a wagon on them for nebulous "scumminess"
I know we might just disagree here, but this preemptively exonerates Cuzz from any responsibility for his D1 votes.
but yes i am the two shot vig.
O are you the two shot vig?
Fishing.
Would lynch today (more or less in order):
Roadrunner
Andrew
Calamitas
Awaclus
Space
Would not lynch today:
Galz
O
faust
pps
Eevee
Vote: Roadrunner again for this
I haven't voted yet today, which is a classic RR scum tell.
because I hate it.
You know how scum is more likely to have reads on their partners? Well this does not contain a single one of our confirmed townies. And it is a specific mention of Calamitas, which is rare.
I changed my mind about this being cleared up. I am still bothered by this.
He is "bothered" by J Reggie's claim and plan, but conveniently stays off the wagon.
how is this even a plan to escape lynching
no part of his plan includes "escaping lynching" any more than any normal VT claim would.
wiiiiiiiifom. it lets him escape lynching if it causes everyone to say "no scum would do this."
More of Cuzz pushing slightly towards a Reggie lynch without committing.
mcmc is obvscum whether or not JReggie flips town.
We'll want to keep this read in mind.
Sorry. Meant to snip more. I meant the Robz QT explanations. I am not sure what you are talking about.
I thought MCMC had a big scumslip when he started spewing random things about "twilight QT" being an argument that the Hammer Hero might be able to act while dead, assuming he had info I didn't on faction QT's.
Robz basically confirmed that what MCMC said about QTs was actually entirely false..? which makes it not as directly a scumslip in the least.
I agree. I was ready to park a vote on mcmc and not move it, but when Robz clarified the QT info I swung hard the other way. I sincerely doubt mcmc is mafia.
I call bullshit. How would the QT info change anything? Nobody would seriously believe that the mafia QT opens at twilight.
Also this is a bad vote and I'm not sure you've been paying attention to anything I've done all game if this is enough for you to vote for me.
What have you done this game that you think shows that you are town?
I think I've been doing quite a bit (posting reads, encouraging conversation, giving reasons for all my votes) but that's not even what I meant. I just meant that I've said and done a large enough volume of stuff in this game that if I were scum you'd probably be able to find better evidence of it than whatever Andrew is using that he still hasn't explained.
ppe: speak of the devil
This is highly scummy. Cuzz is basically saying Andrew not trying hard enough is shown by him not finding better evidence, when the only way he could find such evidence would be if Cuzz were scum. It shows that Cuzz has a scum point of view.
Okay. My point here is as follows: You seem to imply that Andrew hasn't been paying attention, and that is why the only piece of evidence he has for you being scum is what he talked about there. But if you truly were town, then there would be no other evidence that he could have found had he been paying attention. The only way you could deduce from his vote that he has not paying attention is if you are scum, and know that there are other things out there you've done that are more scummy than this.
Thus, you are scum.
I am town. A proof by contrapositive thus shows there is some logical flaw in that paragraph that I'll hunt for properly sometime later.
Oh I think we're just using "evidence" inconsistently:
i. Stuff used to justify one's perception that someone is scum.
ii. Stuff that actually implies that someone is scum.
By definition i, for example, we could say that people presented evidence of their cases on JReggie yesterday, but by definition ii this would not make sense since he was town. I think faust is only using ii and I think I've been inconsistently switching between them.
This is Cuzz' "rebuttal"; except, it's not one. He says that Andrew could have found evidence for Cuzz being scum even if he was town. If that's the case, then why was that prefaced with "if I were scum" (bolded in the previous post)?
Knowing myself to be town I obviously find it unconvincing, but trying to put myself in the shoes of others I don't think it's very strong either, but I'd like to be corrected if I'm wrong on that.
This sort of thing is something Cuzz now does a fair bit, putting emphasis on how he's town. It's scummy.
O, would you consider white knighting/buddying me if you were scum and I was town?
if you were town?
Such a pointless comment, designed only to make RR look suspicious. This from someone who said earlier he believes scumslips to be extremely rare.
So who do we want to lynch now? I do have a suspicion that most of the more active players in this game are town.
Andrew and Jimmmmm are my top choices at the moment. Eevee, sudgy and ash are possibilities also. Could also be talked into iguana and Jake.
This is such and easy way out and there is no bit of evidence provided that the active players are actually town.
yeah so to be a bit of a killjoy I do wanna explore this a tad, even if we're not going to lynch either of them today. IF one was to have a suspicion that mcmc and TWM were scum, this quote would be worth taking a look at:
Faust you think ninja and one-shot cop are better roles for town than hammer hero?
Ninja is useless, one-shot cop can at max utility catch scum, at worst hit investigation immune/get blocked and receive no result. Hammer hero can at max utility create two unkillable IC's and at worst kill town. I think hammer hero is the better role here.
One could read this as scum!mcmc testing the waters to see whether town would buy the prospect of a town hammer hero. To me, personally, it seemed like a scummy role, which was why I was kinda raging at mcmc at the end of D1. For better or for worse, I was really not considering the idea that town would pick that role.
Also in the same quote is a breadcrumb for the hider plan. When I first read this I was confused. Maybe I'm just particularly bad at teasing out all the possible complicated PR interactions (spoiler: I am), but I do not think I would have spotted this synergy unless I had discussed it with someone. You could also read this as maaaaaybe mcmc being a little too confident that there was a "town" hider in the game.
To be clear, I do believe them and am cool with the plan for now, but it would be negligent not to consider otherwise, and I could be dead later in the game and unable to point any of this out.
Convenient setup for the late-game. Can just pull the "they have been scum all along!" narratvie then.
I know Ash is being such a drama queen right now that it's hard to think about anyone else but I was actually asking Cuzz why he scumreads me.
Mostly I got a pretty scummy vibe from the vote on Galz, and I think there was some stuff from D1 that I can't quite remember. Plus the level of activity seems to be in the scum sweet spot.
This is such nonsense. There is no such thing as a "scum sweet spot" for activity.
And finally, we have him pushing hard to lynch quickly on Andrew:
TWM who do you want to lynch instead who you can get 8 other people to agree with before tonight?
-
Faust what are your thoughts on galz?
I thought we've been over this. I do not wish to share.
-
But I don't want him lynched today, that much I can say.
-
That only works if you are willing to vote for someone other than O. If you are then you or I can be L-2 or L-1. If you aren't. Well then that isn't going to work. Are you willing to vote for someone other than O?
Why wouldn't I be willing to vote for someone other than O? I'm practically an IC so it's fine to take the risk of being on a non-scum lynch.
-
Also vote: 2.7
I am as confident that he is scum as I am confident that Andrew is town. Let's put it that way.
The only person you should have town confidence in is Awaclus, if you are telling the truth.
Which is my point.
-
That only works if you are willing to vote for someone other than O. If you are then you or I can be L-2 or L-1. If you aren't. Well then that isn't going to work. Are you willing to vote for someone other than O?
Why wouldn't I be willing to vote for someone other than O? I'm practically an IC so it's fine to take the risk of being on a non-scum lynch.
Ok. I just hadn't heard you say otherwise. It is nice to know.
-
I like faust's case. Vote: Cuzz.
-
I like faust's case. Vote: Cuzz.
Agreed, will bite, Vote: Cuzz
Damn, I almost forgot what a real case looks like. That's impressive for D2.
-
Ok. If mcmc has a strong 2.7 townread, I am not going to try and argue against that. Maybe he is seeing something I am missing.
unvote
But again, my issue with the Andrew wagon is that I have seen nothing that used Day 1 wagons or interactions with known scum (granted I know there were few, but it is what we currently have to work with that is tangible). We have those things. So let's use them. If people want me to vote for Andrew, show me how he fits into that. If you can't ask yourself, "is he really the best lynch for today, or am I just doing gut read/confirmation bias."
-
Had to poop, posting mobile... explaining why I'm not actually gone like I said.
-
For example, faust does the exact of what I asked for above on Cuzz. Now to actually assess it.
-
Anyway here comes the glorious case on Cuzz:
A tl;dr up here. The main points are:
- his case on Andrew shows a scum point of view.
- his reads, especially early, are generic
- his turnaround on mcmc is unconvincing
- he puts a lot of emphasis on the fact that he is town
- he wants to push an Andrew lynch through before any other wagon can form
Also Cuzz and SpaceAnemone are definitely partners. Look at their avatars.
pretty sure I've had this avatar since M10.
Ah, M10. Our debut.
vote: galzria
ok serious Vote: ashersky for this hit and run
Take this as just an example of Cuzz' early-game votes. They all follow the same pattern - point out something that is generally perceived as scummy, and then vote with that reason. There's very little original thought needed for that, and especially in the early game that good for scum because they can easliy have some fake reads.
Not reading a bunch of fluff might be anti fun, and it could even be anti town. My point is that posting a lot of stuff, regardless of what that stuff is, is scummy because gumming up the thread is an easy tactic to use here, and it's fairly effective.
This is so empirically anti-town I want us to lynch RR now.
You will hit an anti-town player, but I don't think you'll be hitting scum.
It's D1 and we're not likely going to lynch scum anyway. Lynching confirmed anti-town is worlds better than lynching a pro-town townie who just happened to get a wagon on them for nebulous "scumminess"
I know we might just disagree here, but this preemptively exonerates Cuzz from any responsibility for his D1 votes.
but yes i am the two shot vig.
O are you the two shot vig?
Fishing.
Would lynch today (more or less in order):
Roadrunner
Andrew
Calamitas
Awaclus
Space
Would not lynch today:
Galz
O
faust
pps
Eevee
Vote: Roadrunner again for this
I haven't voted yet today, which is a classic RR scum tell.
because I hate it.
You know how scum is more likely to have reads on their partners? Well this does not contain a single one of our confirmed townies. And it is a specific mention of Calamitas, which is rare.
I changed my mind about this being cleared up. I am still bothered by this.
He is "bothered" by J Reggie's claim and plan, but conveniently stays off the wagon.
how is this even a plan to escape lynching
no part of his plan includes "escaping lynching" any more than any normal VT claim would.
wiiiiiiiifom. it lets him escape lynching if it causes everyone to say "no scum would do this."
More of Cuzz pushing slightly towards a Reggie lynch without committing.
mcmc is obvscum whether or not JReggie flips town.
We'll want to keep this read in mind.
Sorry. Meant to snip more. I meant the Robz QT explanations. I am not sure what you are talking about.
I thought MCMC had a big scumslip when he started spewing random things about "twilight QT" being an argument that the Hammer Hero might be able to act while dead, assuming he had info I didn't on faction QT's.
Robz basically confirmed that what MCMC said about QTs was actually entirely false..? which makes it not as directly a scumslip in the least.
I agree. I was ready to park a vote on mcmc and not move it, but when Robz clarified the QT info I swung hard the other way. I sincerely doubt mcmc is mafia.
I call bullshit. How would the QT info change anything? Nobody would seriously believe that the mafia QT opens at twilight.
Also this is a bad vote and I'm not sure you've been paying attention to anything I've done all game if this is enough for you to vote for me.
What have you done this game that you think shows that you are town?
I think I've been doing quite a bit (posting reads, encouraging conversation, giving reasons for all my votes) but that's not even what I meant. I just meant that I've said and done a large enough volume of stuff in this game that if I were scum you'd probably be able to find better evidence of it than whatever Andrew is using that he still hasn't explained.
ppe: speak of the devil
This is highly scummy. Cuzz is basically saying Andrew not trying hard enough is shown by him not finding better evidence, when the only way he could find such evidence would be if Cuzz were scum. It shows that Cuzz has a scum point of view.
Okay. My point here is as follows: You seem to imply that Andrew hasn't been paying attention, and that is why the only piece of evidence he has for you being scum is what he talked about there. But if you truly were town, then there would be no other evidence that he could have found had he been paying attention. The only way you could deduce from his vote that he has not paying attention is if you are scum, and know that there are other things out there you've done that are more scummy than this.
Thus, you are scum.
I am town. A proof by contrapositive thus shows there is some logical flaw in that paragraph that I'll hunt for properly sometime later.
Oh I think we're just using "evidence" inconsistently:
i. Stuff used to justify one's perception that someone is scum.
ii. Stuff that actually implies that someone is scum.
By definition i, for example, we could say that people presented evidence of their cases on JReggie yesterday, but by definition ii this would not make sense since he was town. I think faust is only using ii and I think I've been inconsistently switching between them.
This is Cuzz' "rebuttal"; except, it's not one. He says that Andrew could have found evidence for Cuzz being scum even if he was town. If that's the case, then why was that prefaced with "if I were scum" (bolded in the previous post)?
Knowing myself to be town I obviously find it unconvincing, but trying to put myself in the shoes of others I don't think it's very strong either, but I'd like to be corrected if I'm wrong on that.
This sort of thing is something Cuzz now does a fair bit, putting emphasis on how he's town. It's scummy.
O, would you consider white knighting/buddying me if you were scum and I was town?
if you were town?
Such a pointless comment, designed only to make RR look suspicious. This from someone who said earlier he believes scumslips to be extremely rare.
So who do we want to lynch now? I do have a suspicion that most of the more active players in this game are town.
Andrew and Jimmmmm are my top choices at the moment. Eevee, sudgy and ash are possibilities also. Could also be talked into iguana and Jake.
This is such and easy way out and there is no bit of evidence provided that the active players are actually town.
yeah so to be a bit of a killjoy I do wanna explore this a tad, even if we're not going to lynch either of them today. IF one was to have a suspicion that mcmc and TWM were scum, this quote would be worth taking a look at:
Faust you think ninja and one-shot cop are better roles for town than hammer hero?
Ninja is useless, one-shot cop can at max utility catch scum, at worst hit investigation immune/get blocked and receive no result. Hammer hero can at max utility create two unkillable IC's and at worst kill town. I think hammer hero is the better role here.
One could read this as scum!mcmc testing the waters to see whether town would buy the prospect of a town hammer hero. To me, personally, it seemed like a scummy role, which was why I was kinda raging at mcmc at the end of D1. For better or for worse, I was really not considering the idea that town would pick that role.
Also in the same quote is a breadcrumb for the hider plan. When I first read this I was confused. Maybe I'm just particularly bad at teasing out all the possible complicated PR interactions (spoiler: I am), but I do not think I would have spotted this synergy unless I had discussed it with someone. You could also read this as maaaaaybe mcmc being a little too confident that there was a "town" hider in the game.
To be clear, I do believe them and am cool with the plan for now, but it would be negligent not to consider otherwise, and I could be dead later in the game and unable to point any of this out.
Convenient setup for the late-game. Can just pull the "they have been scum all along!" narratvie then.
I know Ash is being such a drama queen right now that it's hard to think about anyone else but I was actually asking Cuzz why he scumreads me.
Mostly I got a pretty scummy vibe from the vote on Galz, and I think there was some stuff from D1 that I can't quite remember. Plus the level of activity seems to be in the scum sweet spot.
This is such nonsense. There is no such thing as a "scum sweet spot" for activity.
And finally, we have him pushing hard to lynch quickly on Andrew:
TWM who do you want to lynch instead who you can get 8 other people to agree with before tonight?
Look at all this evidence you found of someone being scum who is actually town! See, it is possible!
I wish this was enough for me to get a scumread on faust but I'm not quite there yet.
-
That only works if you are willing to vote for someone other than O. If you are then you or I can be L-2 or L-1. If you aren't. Well then that isn't going to work. Are you willing to vote for someone other than O?
Why wouldn't I be willing to vote for someone other than O? I'm practically an IC so it's fine to take the risk of being on a non-scum lynch.
Right, so be useful, take off the tunnel blinders, and get some reads on others since we can generally consider your reads over others.
Maybe O is scum but there must be others. Help us figure out who likely is or isn't outside the O box you've confined yourself to.
-
That only works if you are willing to vote for someone other than O. If you are then you or I can be L-2 or L-1. If you aren't. Well then that isn't going to work. Are you willing to vote for someone other than O?
Why wouldn't I be willing to vote for someone other than O? I'm practically an IC so it's fine to take the risk of being on a non-scum lynch.
Right, so be useful, take off the tunnel blinders, and get some reads on others since we can generally consider your reads over others.
Maybe O is scum but there must be others. Help us figure out who likely is or isn't outside the O box you've confined yourself to.
If Awaclus helps us find a scum outside O then I'd gladly lynch O to return the favor.
-
but yes i am the two shot vig.
O are you the two shot vig?
Fishing.
I think this is my favorite part.
-
Snipping. Is a thing. Also what is the difference between this
Look at all this evidence you found of someone being scum who is actually town! See, it is possible!
and this?
"That's not indicative of alignment!" is everyone's counterargument to everything in this game and it's a little tiresome.
-
Snipping. Is a thing. Also what is the difference between this
Look at all this evidence you found of someone being scum who is actually town! See, it is possible!
and this?
"That's not indicative of alignment!" is everyone's counterargument to everything in this game and it's a little tiresome.
Essentially that I know my alignment and I don't know Andrew's.
-
we can generally consider your reads over others.
Then why aren't you doing so already?
-
Vote Count 2.7
Cuzz (3): faust, sudgy, pingpongsam
O (1): Awaclus
AndrewisFTTW (4): 2.71828...., lalight, eevee, O
Dylan23 (3): Galzria, AndrewisFTTW, JaketheBaseballGod22
LaLight (1): RoadRunner7671
sudgy (1): Dylan32
Galzria (1): iguanaiguana
Not Voting (6): SpaceAnemone, mcmcsalot, ashersky, Jimmmmm, Cuzz, The_Wine_Merchant
With 20 alive it takes just 10 to lynch. Day 2 ends on Sunday, May 28th, at 11:00 AM Forum Time.
-
Right now my top lynch choices are:
Jimmmm, Eevee, ashersky, Space, iguana, Dylan, Jake
but not in any particular order.
-
That Dylan wagon is the most viable right now, but the people on it are a little iffy, so I'll vote: Space
I am seriously up for anyone on that list though.
-
Look at all this evidence you found of someone being scum who is actually town! See, it is possible!
I wish this was enough for me to get a scumread on faust but I'm not quite there yet.
Please come back to me when you've read the whole thing, which obviously you haven't.
And why would you think this makes me more scummy? You already knew I am scumreading you.
-
mcmc are you gonna take immunity or the extra NK tonight?
Scum almost certainly knows whether there's a town vig or not. But then there's lots of wifom there about whether the vig should shoot mcmc.
Who are your top NK targets, mcmc? Lots of people have a pretty strong townread on me, but I don't know how amazing my reads have been so if they're bad maybe you want to keep me around.
So I like most of faust's case on Cuzz. Parts I don't like, that is fine. Biggest question for me is the above post. It just seems excessively brazen for scum. Yes, yes WIFOM and all of that. But it is a question mark for me.
-
That's what I would expect from a town faust. It's also probably the biggest case anyone has made so far (I know big != right, but whatever). I'll go ahead and even up the Cuzz and Andrew wagons so the important people can choose, since apparently a bunch of people are scumreading or allegedly pretty willing to lynch sudgy but nobody seems to be actually willing to vote him. Vote: Cuzz
-
Look at all this evidence you found of someone being scum who is actually town! See, it is possible!
I wish this was enough for me to get a scumread on faust but I'm not quite there yet.
Please come back to me when you've read the whole thing, which obviously you haven't.
And why would you think this makes me more scummy? You already knew I am scumreading you.
Of course I read the whole thing, but it's not really for me to respond to. It's for others to buy or not buy.
The only reason it'd make me more suspicious of you is that I know you're a good player and the case is wrong so either you're scum or I'm playing a bad enough game that it causes a good town player to severely scumread me.
Ppe: more votes
-
Right now my top lynch choices are:
Jimmmm, Eevee, ashersky, Space, iguana, Dylan, Jake
but not in any particular order.
Oh so you're not interested in lynching me anymore?
-
Right now my top lynch choices are:
Jimmmm, Eevee, ashersky, Space, iguana, Dylan, Jake
but not in any particular order.
Oh so you're not interested in lynching me anymore?
I lost interest.
-
Right now my top lynch choices are:
Jimmmm, Eevee, ashersky, Space, iguana, Dylan, Jake
but not in any particular order.
Oh so you're not interested in lynching me anymore?
I lost interest.
Interesting.
-
Vote: Cuzz
-
Right now my top lynch choices are:
Jimmmm, Eevee, ashersky, Space, iguana, Dylan, Jake
but not in any particular order.
Oh so you're not interested in lynching me anymore?
I lost interest.
Interesting.
Was I mistaken?
-
Right now my top lynch choices are:
Jimmmm, Eevee, ashersky, Space, iguana, Dylan, Jake
but not in any particular order.
Oh so you're not interested in lynching me anymore?
I lost interest.
Interesting.
Was I mistaken?
Are you threatening to OMGUS again? Because that would be even more interesting.
-
I gotta go dark for a few hours. This escalated quickly but I'm gonna assume folks will do me the courtesy of waiting for me to claim if we get real carried away.
-
I'll put myself down as half convinced on the Cuzz case. I'll re-read him properly when I get a chance.
-
I tried to make a lynch-order list of my own, but there are too many gaps in my impressions of people, so here are some lightning re-read impressions of the people I had the biggest question marks over:
Jake: it's causing me concern that he's playing well, because sadly that often means he's scum. However, he doesn't actively look particularly scummy on re-reading.
O: Wow... so many posts. Mentions a scumread on gkreig early on, which might be a scum tactic to try to test the waters on someone they're afraid of and want to lynch/NK. Gave up lightning read because there's just too much stuff. I really didn't like the thing at #1539 where he wifoms teh softclaiming, though.
e: lots of early interaction with Cuzz, whom I know some people are scumreading. Defends him a bit later on too. In general doesn't stick out as scummy too much; I'm hedginign a bit because there are certainly not-totally-towny things in there, but I got into a whole big TvT thing in RMM37 with him, so I know I have a habit of finding him more scummy than he deserves.
Jimmmmm: That's a more manageable amount of posting! Seems quite null, though acting a bit clueless when the softclaiming starts seems a bit weird. Is that normal sort for behaviour from Jimmmmm, or could it be cover for a scum agenda? Actually, overall he reads as pretty townie.
Huh.. out of time for tonight again :-( I'd like to read iguana and Dylan next.
In the meantime, I'll vote: Cuzz promarily because of faust's case, but also because he seems to be trying to bring back my wagon.
-
Jimmmmm: That's a more manageable amount of posting! Seems quite null, though acting a bit clueless when the softclaiming starts seems a bit weird. Is that normal sort for behaviour from Jimmmmm, or could it be cover for a scum agenda? Actually, overall he reads as pretty townie.
Are you talking about the TWM/Awaclus thing?
-
Request vote count before I vote.
I will look at Cuzz again tomorrow.
-
The finale MCMC watched last night is what took me out tonight.
-
FYI: Robz just vetoed the conditional night actions in my QT. glad I asked. So if we want me to use my night action we need the lynch to happen soon. Sorry if that I convinces anyone, but it is the way it is. My vacation is more important than this game.
-
FYI: Robz just vetoed the conditional night actions in my QT. glad I asked. So if we want me to use my night action we need the lynch to happen soon. Sorry if that I convinces anyone, but it is the way it is. My vacation is more important than this game.
Can't you preemptively submit your night action now?
-
FYI: Robz just vetoed the conditional night actions in my QT. glad I asked. So if we want me to use my night action we need the lynch to happen soon. Sorry if that I convinces anyone, but it is the way it is. My vacation is more important than this game.
Can't you preemptively submit your night action now?
I guess you're saying you can't, nvm.
-
FYI: Robz just vetoed the conditional night actions in my QT. glad I asked. So if we want me to use my night action we need the lynch to happen soon. Sorry if that I convinces anyone, but it is the way it is. My vacation is more important than this game.
Can't you preemptively submit your night action now?
I don't know and regardless I don't want to. If I state that I am going to hide behind mcmc and put that in my QT and then leave for vacation that will give mafia an extreme reason to steal the hammer away and kill both mcmc and myself at once.
-
How long do you have? I'll help push a lynch through if you and mcmc agree.
-
I don't like the cuzz lynch either but whatever
-
Also galz has been lurking and viewing the thread all day and Faust is invisible so I'm betting they are scum.
-
I don't like the cuzz lynch either but whatever
Well are we doing Cuzz or pushing for Andrew or someone else?
-
Andrew/galz/faust/eevee/lalight are all good scum candidates from my perspective but I'll do whatever
-
but yes i am the two shot vig.
O are you the two shot vig?
Fishing.
Faust is scummy and deserves to be lynched for including such directly obvious bullshit in his cases.
MCMC is willing to lynch Faust so I'll Vote: Faust
I see no reason to not vote for a candidate of MCMC's choosing tbh.
-
I hate taking my vote off of Obv!scum but honestly it seems more important for this plan to work than for me to get my top lynch priority.
Vote: Cuzz - currently the largest wagon.
I will change that if necessary. We're committed to this plan now, so we need to make sure it is executed properly. Come on guys.
-
I'm happy to switch to Faust too. Anyone who knows me knows that voting for Faust is one of my favorite things to do.
-
Andrew/galz/faust/eevee/lalight are all good scum candidates from my perspective but I'll do whatever
I think Galz/faust is bad for today. Maybe the two of them are playing us, but faust seems quite townie
-
FYI: Robz just vetoed the conditional night actions in my QT. glad I asked. So if we want me to use my night action we need the lynch to happen soon. Sorry if that I convinces anyone, but it is the way it is. My vacation is more important than this game.
I'll vote whoever you need me to to get this lynch through so we can excute this plan.
-
Also galz has been lurking and viewing the thread all day and Faust is invisible so I'm betting they are scum.
Isn't faust always invisible? I am invisible as well.
-
I don't like the cuzz lynch either but whatever
Well are we doing Cuzz or pushing for Andrew or someone else?
I don't know, why don't you just vote someone you think is scum?
Unvote
Andrew could very well be scum but I will at least do him the honor of a good reread before I vote him again. Although I will probably land on Dylan or someone.
Also, TWM, you think I am scum because I didn't automatically grant you IC status D1? Is that right?
-
Also, TWM, you think I am scum because I didn't automatically grant you IC status D1? Is that right?
I think you are being quite different. Part of that is that you aren't reading me very well. But I think that is just an inkling. And like I said, I am as confident than you are scum as I am that Andrew is town (slightly, but not very).
-
It looks like the two that mcmc and I agree on are Eevee and LaLight. But I don't think we have to or should do a lynch on someone just because we agree on them if a large portion of town doesn't want that.
-
I think for now I will Vote: Cuzz. THIS IS L-2 (I think)
-
I'd much rather sheep MCMC than TWM. I consistently like MCMC's reads today and find TWM's awful.
Mainly, I have absolutely no clue what his case on e is, why he considers Andrew likely town, or why Galzria is "likely townie" when galzria has barely posted much today at all.
-
I'll be way more open to faust/galz thing tomorrow when I expect some claims and some night actions results to make things more interesting.
I'm half expecting a scum TWM to get double vote power but I am not sheeping Awaclus.
-
Cuzz (8): faust, sudgy, pingpongsam, dylan, Andrew, space, iguana, Jake
-
I'd much rather sheep MCMC than TWM. I consistently like MCMC's reads today and find TWM's awful.
Mainly, I have absolutely no clue what his case on e is, why he considers Andrew likely town, or why Galzria is "likely townie" when galzria has barely posted much today at all.
I am right here dude.
-
I'd much rather sheep MCMC than TWM. I consistently like MCMC's reads today and find TWM's awful.
Mainly, I have absolutely no clue what his case on e is, why he considers Andrew likely town, or why Galzria is "likely townie" when galzria has barely posted much today at all.
I am right here dude.
And I was addressing everyone, not questioning you
-
Cuzz is a terrible lynch
-
Cuzz (8): faust, sudgy, pingpongsam, dylan, Andrew, space, iguana, Jake
I mean, just look art all the scum on that wagon
-
I'd much rather sheep MCMC than TWM. I consistently like MCMC's reads today and find TWM's awful.
Mainly, I have absolutely no clue what his case on e is, why he considers Andrew likely town, or why Galzria is "likely townie" when galzria has barely posted much today at all.
I am right here dude.
And I was addressing everyone, not questioning you
Maybe you should question me.
-
Cuzz (8): faust, sudgy, pingpongsam, dylan, Andrew, space, iguana, Jake
Scummy, Slightly Scummy, Neutral, Lurkerfest, Scummy, Scummy, Neutral, Scummy
-
I'd much rather sheep MCMC than TWM. I consistently like MCMC's reads today and find TWM's awful.
Mainly, I have absolutely no clue what his case on e is, why he considers Andrew likely town, or why Galzria is "likely townie" when galzria has barely posted much today at all.
I am right here dude.
And I was addressing everyone, not questioning you
Maybe you should question me.
How could Galzria possibly be a town read when he's been a ghost mostly?
-
I'd much rather sheep MCMC than TWM. I consistently like MCMC's reads today and find TWM's awful.
Mainly, I have absolutely no clue what his case on e is, why he considers Andrew likely town, or why Galzria is "likely townie" when galzria has barely posted much today at all.
I am right here dude.
And I was addressing everyone, not questioning you
Maybe you should question me.
How could Galzria possibly be a town read when he's been a ghost mostly?
I could be wrong about what I have posted myself. If so, please let me know, this has been a long game with a lot of turns. But I don't have a townread on Galz and don't think I have posted as such. I have a townread on faust and he has tied himself to Galz, so I don't want to lynch either of them today.
-
yeah so if y'all go through with this do take a good look at the absurd speed with which that wagon took off after I flip town.
faust's case was thorough and well-documented and scum probably thought it was safe to sheep, but damn.
-
I'd much rather sheep MCMC than TWM. I consistently like MCMC's reads today and find TWM's awful.
Mainly, I have absolutely no clue what his case on e is, why he considers Andrew likely town, or why Galzria is "likely townie" when galzria has barely posted much today at all.
I am right here dude.
And I was addressing everyone, not questioning you
Maybe you should question me.
How could Galzria possibly be a town read when he's been a ghost mostly?
I could be wrong about what I have posted myself. If so, please let me know, this has been a long game with a lot of turns. But I don't have a townread on Galz and don't think I have posted as such. I have a townread on faust and he has tied himself to Galz, so I don't want to lynch either of them today.
Why are Faust and Galz tied together? They aren't sharing posting patterns or talking to each other more than expected.
-
Something about night actions results. There are quotes out there. Here is one:
Faust what are your thoughts on galz?
I thought we've been over this. I do not wish to share.
There have been others.
-
Cuzz (8): faust, sudgy, pingpongsam, dylan, Andrew, space, iguana, Jake
Scummy, Slightly Scummy, Neutral, Lurkerfest, Scummy, Scummy, Neutral, Scummy
Thanks. By any chance could you tell me how I'm scummy?
-
Cuzz (8): faust, sudgy, pingpongsam, dylan, Andrew, space, iguana, Jake
Scummy, Slightly Scummy, Neutral, Lurkerfest, Scummy, Scummy, Neutral, Scummy
Thanks. By any chance could you tell me how I'm scummy?
Let's not get into it now. You aren't getting lynched today. So why worry that one player thinks you scummy.
-
Let's get this terrible lynch over with. Twm we need to have you hide behind me tonight. Cuzz will definitely flip town though
-
fwiw, also compare the wagon to my list from earlier. i dunno exactly what that gets you, but it's something.
New plan!
Everyone list all other players in proposed lynch order. Poetic, since it sort of mimics the draft order part of the game.
I'll bite:
ashersky
AndrewisFTTW
Jimmmmm
iguanaiguana
SpaceAnemone
Eevee
faust
JaketheBaseballGod22
sudgy
RoadRunner
LaLight
Dylan32
Galzria
2.71828.....
pingpongsam
O
mcmcsalot
Awaclus
The_Wine_Merchant
-
Let's get this terrible lynch over with. Twm we need to have you hide behind me tonight. Cuzz will definitely flip town though
it's true, watch
-
I'm here to vote, but I'd prefer not to lynch Cuzz. LaLight or Andrew or even 2.7 are all better for me.
PPE 2
-
Cuzz (8): faust, sudgy, pingpongsam, dylan, Andrew, space, iguana, Jake
Scummy, Slightly Scummy, Neutral, Lurkerfest, Scummy, Scummy, Neutral, Scummy
Thanks. By any chance could you tell me how I'm scummy?
When you aren't lurking you're a wagoning, your position on the J Reggie wagon, your general defensiveness at anyone mentioning your name.
Ok that last parts not a scumtell. So the first two.
-
Can we pleeease go back to andrew
-
Vote: AndrewisFTTW
baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa baaaaaaaaaaaaa
-
Vote: Andrew
-
yeah, i mean we've got this great plan and everything, but maybe let's not lynch the guy who the "IC" says will "definitely flip town"
-
Twm's freak out about him not using his power on me and his terrible reads have me worried he's hiding something which is ridiculous that I'm thinking that.
-
Let's lynch Andrew to see! But I am also suspicious of TWM.
-
Cuzz (8): faust, sudgy, pingpongsam, dylan, Andrew, space, iguana, Jake
Scummy, Slightly Scummy, Neutral, Lurkerfest, Scummy, Scummy, Neutral, Scummy
Maybe so. I'm not sure if we have the easiest wagon for scum to get behind because a real case was made or if we have a wagon that the people want to get behind because a real case was made. What we have here is a dearth of case making. It's all half hearted hand waving and I'm equally guilty. I mean, I could just pick any person and make a case if I wanted to. It's what I do as scum. But we're all being lazy and sheeping the guy who put in the effort.
PPE 5
Vote: Andrew
-
Vote: Andrew
-
Vote: Andrew
Alright hopefully this one sticks.
-
WOAH THERE
-
HOLD YOUR HORSES COWBOYS Unvote
-
Sheep: O
-
Jimmmm, iguana, Space, ash, Eevee, Jake, there are so many great choices.
I don't really want to lynch andrew or faust though
ppe: paint that wagon
-
Sheep: O
Let's not do that.
-
Let's get this terrible lynch over with. Twm we need to have you hide behind me tonight. Cuzz will definitely flip town though
it's true, watch
really?
have me worried he's hiding something
...
-
Sheep: O
Let's not do that.
Let's not direct the PRs?
-
Sheep: O
Let's not do that.
Let's not direct the PRs?
Can we please sheep 'confirmed' town who is death immune?
And we're directing TWM...
-
Sheep: O
I really wouldn't do that
-
Sheep: O
Let's not do that.
Let's not direct the PRs?
Can we please sheep 'confirmed' town who is death immune?
And we're directing TWM...
I don't get why I'm being sheeped, but I think despite trusting MCMC giving him the Restless Sheeper would be an absurd amount of power to invest if he is scum HammerHero.
-
Andrew is at 6
-
I can't have the restless sheeper. It is pps's vote which directly follows the person he sheeps so it would take he hammer from me. I doubt pps is going to die.
-
I can't have the restless sheeper. It is pps's vote which directly follows the person he sheeps so it would take he hammer from me. I doubt pps is going to die.
ok, just for theory talk here--if someone is at L-1 and you voted, wouldn't your vote still be the "hammer" with the pps vote after just being superfluous?
-
I can't have the restless sheeper. It is pps's vote which directly follows the person he sheeps so it would take he hammer from me. I doubt pps is going to die.
So scum could have:
Taken Restless Sheeper and sacrificed a scum member
Taken Hider/A role in hider's slot
Taken Hammer Hero
to avoid being in this lousy situation, just so we're clear on the potential balance of this setup. Though I still think the priorities of certain things are whack.
-
Sheep: O
Let's not do that.
Let's not direct the PRs?
Can we please sheep 'confirmed' town who is death immune?
And we're directing TWM...
No one is confirmed town, here.
Sheep: TWM
I do like the interaction the switch created, though, thanks for that.
-
I think I am more likely to die sheeping TWM than anyone just for the WIFOM against hm if he is actually town.
-
Hey anyone wanna look at these two posts which conspicuously do not feature a vote count in between them?
Request vote count before I vote.
I will look at Cuzz again tomorrow.
I hate taking my vote off of Obv!scum but honestly it seems more important for this plan to work than for me to get my top lynch priority.
Vote: Cuzz - currently the largest wagon.
I will change that if necessary. We're committed to this plan now, so we need to make sure it is executed properly. Come on guys.
vote: iguana again i've been feeling this all day
-
Hey anyone wanna look at these two posts which conspicuously do not feature a vote count in between them?
Request vote count before I vote.
I will look at Cuzz again tomorrow.
I hate taking my vote off of Obv!scum but honestly it seems more important for this plan to work than for me to get my top lynch priority.
Vote: Cuzz - currently the largest wagon.
I will change that if necessary. We're committed to this plan now, so we need to make sure it is executed properly. Come on guys.
vote: iguana again i've been feeling this all day
he could have, you know, counted the votes in between those posts.
-
Can we pleeease go back to andrew
I get to acknowledge your reads, but you don't get to acknowledge mine?
Thanks.
-
Hey anyone wanna look at these two posts which conspicuously do not feature a vote count in between them?
Request vote count before I vote.
I will look at Cuzz again tomorrow.
I hate taking my vote off of Obv!scum but honestly it seems more important for this plan to work than for me to get my top lynch priority.
Vote: Cuzz - currently the largest wagon.
I will change that if necessary. We're committed to this plan now, so we need to make sure it is executed properly. Come on guys.
vote: iguana again i've been feeling this all day
The situation changed when I realized that we need to lynch immediately. No, I have not reread you. Yes, that is not ideal at all.
-
Hey anyone wanna look at these two posts which conspicuously do not feature a vote count in between them?
Request vote count before I vote.
I will look at Cuzz again tomorrow.
I hate taking my vote off of Obv!scum but honestly it seems more important for this plan to work than for me to get my top lynch priority.
Vote: Cuzz - currently the largest wagon.
I will change that if necessary. We're committed to this plan now, so we need to make sure it is executed properly. Come on guys.
vote: iguana again i've been feeling this all day
he could have, you know, counted the votes in between those posts.
sure, but that second post is reeeeaaal scummy anyway.
-
Twm's freak out about him not using his power on me and his terrible reads have me worried he's hiding something which is ridiculous that I'm thinking that.
I am.
I am trying to hide my annoyance. But not very well. Do you want me to do this plan of yours or not? I am willing, but it needs to be on my terms because I am fucking going on vacation. Fuck.
-
Hey anyone wanna look at these two posts which conspicuously do not feature a vote count in between them?
Request vote count before I vote.
I will look at Cuzz again tomorrow.
I hate taking my vote off of Obv!scum but honestly it seems more important for this plan to work than for me to get my top lynch priority.
Vote: Cuzz - currently the largest wagon.
I will change that if necessary. We're committed to this plan now, so we need to make sure it is executed properly. Come on guys.
vote: iguana again i've been feeling this all day
We're not lynching iguana, this isn't helping cuzz
-
In the meantime, I'll vote: Cuzz promarily because of faust's case, but also because he seems to be trying to bring back my wagon.
also scummy
-
Hey anyone wanna look at these two posts which conspicuously do not feature a vote count in between them?
Request vote count before I vote.
I will look at Cuzz again tomorrow.
I hate taking my vote off of Obv!scum but honestly it seems more important for this plan to work than for me to get my top lynch priority.
Vote: Cuzz - currently the largest wagon.
I will change that if necessary. We're committed to this plan now, so we need to make sure it is executed properly. Come on guys.
vote: iguana again i've been feeling this all day
We're not lynching iguana, this isn't helping cuzz
How can I help, then?
-
Just fucking let me know when to vote for Andrew.
-
request vote count
-
We're at 6 still.
-
request vote count
can you just like text Robz for this or is that illegal?
-
Cuzz vote andrew we are still at six
-
Cuzz vote andrew we are still at six
I really would prefer not to.
-
Roadrunner if your around to vote andrew
-
Cuzz vote andrew we are still at six
I really would prefer not to.
Why?
-
I really hate to do this but I have work in 7 hours and need to sleep. I can't keep following this.
-
Roadrunner if your around to vote andrew
I am. Do you want me to right now?
-
Roadrunner if your around to vote andrew
I am. Do you want me to right now?
Yes that brings andrew to 7
-
Cuzz vote andrew we are still at six
I really would prefer not to.
Why?
Because I think it could be bad for town and I might be wrong but I don't want to be a part of it today.
-
Vote: Andrew
-
so we need one more for andrew and then MCMC/TWM jump on
-
Are you guys serious? You know just because someone says something is summy doesn't automatically make it so.
-
Are you guys serious? You know just because someone says something is summy doesn't automatically make it so.
Sorry Andrew. I got demoted down to a pawn. I am just a game piece now being moved around the board now.
-
Andrew do you intend to claim?
-
I dislike this lynch but it's better than mcmcsalot dying.
Wait,
-
We have until Sunday. Unvote wtf
-
We're in a rush because TWM can't use his hider ability unless we lynch before he goes VLA.
-
We have until Sunday. Unvote wtf
Twm has to leave so we need to do it now.
Ppe: cuzz gets it
-
I'm here with a vote. Shall I use it?
-
We're in a rush because TWM can't use his hider ability unless we lynch before he goes VLA.
Yeah I get that, but TWM will you be 100% VLA?
-
We're in a rush because TWM can't use his hider ability unless we lynch before he goes VLA.
Yeah I get that, but TWM will you be 100% VLA?
VLA is sacred, man
-
I'm here with a vote. Shall I use it?
Yes
-
Andrew do you intend to claim?
He doesn't he was at l-3 with someone willing to vote forever ago
-
I'm here with a vote. Shall I use it?
Yay yes. Vote andrew that will put him at 7
Roadrunner can put him at 8
-
Vote: Andrew
I think that's 7 = L-3
-
Twm Im sorry you feel I've forced your hand if andrew flips town you can yell at me tomorrow when we're both alive
-
TWM knows how I act as scum and town. Him saying I'm town should hold more sway than mcmc saying I'm scum because I voted for gkrieg yesterday.
-
And no I'm not claiming.
-
TWM knows how I act as scum and town. Him saying I'm town should hold more sway than mcmc saying I'm scum because I voted for gkrieg yesterday.
That's not the only reason I don't have time to re-put together the case.
-
I''ll vote if you're both ready :-\
-
Twm you ready
-
TWM knows how I act as scum and town. Him saying I'm town should hold more sway than mcmc saying I'm scum because I voted for gkrieg yesterday.
That's not the only reason I don't have time to re-put together the case.
Ok but think back to that game where I was scum pushing your lynch. In what way am I similar to how I played there?
-
Ok maybe I changed my mind because this does not look like town up against the wall.
-
Roadrunner vote
-
Vote: Andrew
-
Cuzz vote when I tell you.
Twm if you really are a town hider hide behind me.
-
Vote: Andrew
Well I didn't say yet it's fine thougj
-
Roadrunner vote
-
So it's L-2... has anyone thoroughly checked that?
-
Ok maybe I changed my mind because this does not look like town up against the wall.
Not everyone plays town the same way. But whatever, my flip will prove you wrong in a few minutes.
-
Yea rr vote
-
RR looking super scummy
-
I can do it if you want
-
Galz vote
-
vote: andrew
-
vote: andrew
-
Thank god!
-
Man, just look at those timestamps.
-
Bummer.
-
MCMC the hammer hero master
-
Hi guys
-
Also, nobody else vote Andrew in twilight in case we're wrong on the vote count.
-
Try to make it 1 second Tomorrow.
-
Unvote
-
If andrew scum flips i very much think Roadrunner is our next best lynch for bailing on us here, along with Ashersky from before.
unvote
jimm unvoted and im hoping this is just in case we were off on vote count
-
Actually, because it won't matter if the Hammer was successful, but can prevent a bad hammer if it wasn't: unvote
-
Unvote
Smart unvote
-
Hahaha
-
I took like 5 minutes guys, we're gonna be okay.
-
look at all of us distancing ourselves from the wagon.
-
Hahaha
What was this to?
-
Unvote
Smart unvote
look at all of us distancing ourselves from the wagon.
Scummiest one here.
-
jimm unvoted and im hoping this is just in case we were off on vote count
That is correct.
-
I'm not unvoting because I promised my wife I'd hang out with her after the hammer so I'll catch y'all tomorrow unless I'm dead.
-
Hahaha
What was this to?
Everybody realising to unvote at the same time. 4 in under a minute.
-
Hahaha
What was this to?
Everybody realising to unvote at the same time. 4 in under a minute.
You don't know how nervous you made me viewing the thread all day
-
I'm not unvoting because I promised my wife I'd hang out with her after the hammer so I'll catch y'all tomorrow unless I'm dead.
We were watching a show in bed, I already got the computer slammed and the role and pull covers move so I'm available to chit chat.
-
Hahaha
What was this to?
Everybody realising to unvote at the same time. 4 in under a minute.
You don't know how nervous you made me viewing the thread all day
Sorry - I leave the browser up on my phone all day. It's why back in the day I used to be logged in 20 hours a day and led time active on boards
-
Hahaha
What was this to?
Everybody realising to unvote at the same time. 4 in under a minute.
You don't know how nervous you made me viewing the thread all day
Sorry - I leave the browser up on my phone all day. It's why back in the day I used to be logged in 20 hours a day and led time active on boards
I kinda thought that but the paranoia was real
-
I tried to catch up in time, but was too late. Oh well, it's fine. I like the Andrew lynch enough. Especially now that he hasn't posted since the hammer.
-
I tried to catch up in time, but was too late. Oh well, it's fine. I like the Andrew lynch enough. Especially now that he hasn't posted since the hammer.
Hi.
-
I tried to catch up in time, but was too late. Oh well, it's fine. I like the Andrew lynch enough. Especially now that he hasn't posted since the hammer.
Hi.
Hi.
-
I tried to catch up in time, but was too late. Oh well, it's fine. I like the Andrew lynch enough. Especially now that he hasn't posted since the hammer.
Hi.
Hi.
This is again something that means absolutely nothing, by the way.
-
Boy I hope you guys and gals (not galz though :p ) counted right.
-
You were so close to doing the right thing. And failed horribly.
-
Andrew, can you claim draft order n stuff as long as this isn't locked?
-
Thread locked.
-
Vote Count 2.8
Cuzz (5): faust, sudgy, Dylan32, AndrewisFTTW, SpaceAnemone
O (1): Awaclus
AndrewisFTTW (10): LaLight, Eevee, O, pingpongsam, JaketheBaseballGod22, iguanaiguana, Jimmmmm, Cuzz, Galzria, mcmcsalot
Not Voting (4): ashersky, The_Wine_Merchant, 2.71828......, RoadRunner7671
With 20 alive it took just 10 to lynch.
-
There might be something to this Rob A and Rob B theory! Honestly, during the first round of Mafia II, I had convinced myself that Morgrim was mafia.
I remember thinking: "Oh, yes, we got him now. Look at him squirm. We caught that mafia son of a... no, wait. Wait a minute. I'm the mafia."
Robz A: Welcome to Mafia IV! You are a Gardener, along with your partner, Robz B!
- Mafia 4
AndrewisFTTW, the Vanilla Townie, has been lynched.
Night 2 begins now. All players must check-in with me during Night 2 by posting in their personal or shared QTs. Failure to do so could result in modkill. Actions are due within 48 hours. Day 2 begins Sunday at 9:00 AM Forum Time.
-
My apologies, but I need to correct an error. Recently, I was thinking about a couple different PR interactions, and it led me to realize that I had made an incorrect call in the main thread. I wrote:
Hider and Hammer Hero both resolve before Bus Driver takes effect, so the Bus Driver won't impact either of their actions.
When I made this statement, I thought I was responding to a question about the Bus Driver targeting the Hider, which he can't do. But it seems fairly obvious to me that the Bus Driver CAN target the Hider's target, and thus, cause the Hider to actually be hiding behind a different player. Since the Bus Driver does not need to target the Hider to do this, it should work. The Hider targets Player A, is now hiding behind Player A, the Bus Driver targets Players A and B, his power says things targeting Player A are now targeting Player B and vice versa, so the Hider is now targeting Player B. There is no reason for this to fail.
The Hider's target being the Hammer Hero would not change this calculus.
The game instructions state that if a mistake is made, I will correct it, if possible. It seems to me the best course of action is to reverse my earlier call, since no night actions have been taken yet, and since the sheer possibility that the dreaded combo could *theoretically* be disrupted adds a desirable wrinkle to the game.
This should not be taken as proof that there is a Bus Driver (or Hammer Hero or Hider, for that matter) in this game. A player asked a question about how a completely different role would interact with a Hider, and the process of thinking through this interaction caused me to revisit earlier calls. (Specifically, there was a question of whether a Watcher who targets the Hider's target would see the targeting. I decided the answer was yes--because the Watcher doesn't need to target the Hider--which prompted me to re-check my other calls.
Regardless of whether there is a Bus Driver in this game, the Hider, if present, might make different choices at night, with the knowledge that a Bus Driver, if present, could cause the Hider to hide somewhere else. I am therefore extending Night 2 for another 48 hours, or until I receive confirmation from all players with night actions that they have read this message and had the chance to revise their actions.
I apologize for the error. Contact me via QT with any issues.
-
Chicken vote: shraeye
Chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken.
Chicken.
Chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken Unvote
Chicken Vote: Robz888
If that was supposed to convey something, can anyone translate?
Cuzz, the Vanilla Townie, has been killed.
Eevee, the Masonic Lover, has been killed.
DAY 3 START!
THREAD UNLOCKED.
-
Vote Count 3.1
Not Voting (17): ashersky, The_Wine_Merchant, 2.71828......, RoadRunner7671, faust, sudgy, Dylan32, SpaceAnemone, Awaclus, LaLight, O, pingpongsam, JaketheBaseballGod22, iguanaiguana, Jimmmmm, Galzria, mcmcsalot
With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch. Day 3 ends on Monday, June 5th, at 5:00 PM Forum Time.
-
So, mcmc is confirmed if twm is confirmed, right? Also we have another ic now inless counterclaimed which would be also nice
-
Just looked at Masonic lover. Looks like Eevee was either the convert or the convert got protected.
-
Two things.
First:
AndrewisFTTW, the Vanilla Townie, has been lynched.
Neener-neener-neener.
Second. I chose to not hide last night.
-
Just looked at Masonic lover. Looks like Eevee was either the convert or the convert got protected.
No, I bet Eevee was the random VT chosen. So Eevee died but X didn't, but if X would've died then Eevee would've died.
-
Second. I chose to not hide last night.
You are not being a good.
-
Two things.
First:
AndrewisFTTW, the Vanilla Townie, has been lynched.
Neener-neener-neener.
Second. I chose to not hide last night.
But why?
-
Second. I chose to not hide last night.
You are not being a good.
Why? Cause I didn't want mafia to bus drive me into themselves. No thank you.
-
Are you both fucking kidding me. We spend all of yesterday with everyone dictating how I am to play my role with the wrong assumption on the rules. That rule gets changed and I am just supposed to maintain the status quo? Did I ruin your precious little mafia plan?
-
Are you both fucking kidding me. We spend all of yesterday with everyone dictating how I am to play my role with the wrong assumption on the rules. That rule gets changed and I am just supposed to maintain the status quo? Did I ruin your precious little mafia plan?
Don't swear. I am sorry, i forgot about this bus-driving thing.
-
Are you both fucking kidding me. We spend all of yesterday with everyone dictating how I am to play my role with the wrong assumption on the rules. That rule gets changed and I am just supposed to maintain the status quo? Did I ruin your precious little mafia plan?
Remember how Robz said 'this doesn't mean there's a bus driver?'
-
TWM's play makes sense to me and since he and MCMC are both here I would say he made the right choice. For all we know scum used 1 shot bus driver last night on MCMC and he would have died.
-
Are you both fucking kidding me. We spend all of yesterday with everyone dictating how I am to play my role with the wrong assumption on the rules. That rule gets changed and I am just supposed to maintain the status quo? Did I ruin your precious little mafia plan?
Remember how Robz said 'this doesn't mean there's a bus driver?'
Oh my God you are right!?!? Duck. I am such a moron. I didn't realize he said that. I only read the part of his post that I wanted to read and just automatically assumed that there must be a bus driver. I mean. It isn't like bus driver is a role that mafia would gravitate toward getting. And it isn't like we had talked about this possibility before during Day 2. And it wasn't like I couldn't do the exact same thing tomorrow or Day 4. Shoot man. I was just totally wrong.
Is that what you want to hear? Cause duck that.
-
Oh actually since masons flipped doesn't that mean no chance of bus driver?
-
Also. If there is a town bus driver. I think they should claim immediately. Scum can claim it as well, I guess.
-
Oh actually since masons flipped doesn't that mean no chance of bus driver?
Slots 11, 12, 13. I made the same bad assumption Day 1.
-
Oh actually since masons flipped doesn't that mean no chance of bus driver?
Slots 11, 12, 13. I made the same bad assumption Day 1.
Right, so there's a small chance still of a bus driver... if a non town got one of those slots, and bus driver landed in it, and they didn't already use the shot.
-
PS. I am not annoyed about the rule change at all. I think it was the right call. Timing of it wasn't optimal, but I was always of the attitude that mcmc's "plan" was never guaranteed to work anyways and thought those who thought the game was solved were completely off base.
-
Two nights, two deaths each night.
Options:
No Vig - SK + Mafia kills both night
Vig hasn't shot - SK + Mafia kills both night
Vig has shot, some kill each night has been prevented.
I may have something I want to discuss on this topic.
-
So, mcmc is confirmed if twm is confirmed, right? Also we have another ic now inless counterclaimed which would be also nice
yeah, so if we believe everything (which I don't think we have reason to doubt at this point) that mcmc and TWM have claimed, then Awaclus, TWM, mcmc, and whoever is the other half of the masonic lover is town.
I don't think the other half of the masonic lover needs to claim anytime soon though. Definitely if they get run up for a lynch, but I don't see the hurry right now.
-
Actually I was just thinking since TWM claimed he didn't hide, isn't that exactly what he would do as scum? Claim hider then create a reason not to hide so that no one can check...
-
Actually I was just thinking since TWM claimed he didn't hide, isn't that exactly what he would do as scum? Claim hider then create a reason not to hide so that no one can check...
Yes. But also as town with his explanation. Essentially we've learned nothing about TWM since yesterday so it was a wasted lynch/night in regards to TWM/mcmc
-
Actually I was just thinking since TWM claimed he didn't hide, isn't that exactly what he would do as scum? Claim hider then create a reason not to hide so that no one can check...
Sure. But I couldn't count on the mod coming up with a rule change that would provide a good reason to not hide. Are you implying that I created the rule change?
-
No, I am not implying that.
-
Here was my logic from why I didn't hide in case people are curious.
These were the options that I could see occurring.
1. I hide behind mcmc and flip dead in the morning. This creates an unknown. Did I die because I hid behind mcmc or because mcmc was bus driven and I was moved behind scum? No information is gained.
2. I hide behind mcmc and don't flip in the morning. This one is more likely that mcmc is town. There is still a slight question mark, but overall it leans towards confirming mcmc as town (he was already pretty townie to begin with). Information is gained.
3. I hide behind someone else and am dead in the morning. This creates an unknown. Did I die because I hid behind mcmc or was bus driven, or because I hid behidn someone else. I didn't breadcrumb anything about hiding behind someone else (because there wasn't a need at that point), so it would have resulted in zero information being gained.
4. I hide behind someone else and am alive in the morning. Same as above, except it was a complete toss up on whether this person would be town or mafia. Not worth the risk without giving town some way of knowing who I was hiding behind.
5. I don't hide. No information is gained, but I stay alive to get information on another day when the collective mind can help come up with better possible solutions.
Plus there are going to be multiple days in this game. Others just wanted me to hide behind mcmc for the rest of the game anyways {I am still not sure that is the best move anyways, but most people wanted me to do that}, so what is a day lost in the grand scheme of things?
-
No, I am not implying that.
Then what are you implying? You used the word create. What did I create?
-
vote: 2.7 also
-
The advantage of the other masonic lover claiming would be that unless they're challenged, we really do have a confirmed IC, since it seems like only town-aligned players can be lovers, and since Eevee flipped blue, then there must be another one out there, right?
(I'm reasonably confident that TWM, mcmc and Awaclus are town, but they're still not technically IC).
-
I think before the rules clarification, you already had a plausible reason to claim you didn't hide behind MCMC because you talked a lot about how you want to use your ability to cop unknown players. Since the rules clarification you have a better reason, but that doesn't make you an IC from my perspective unfortunately.
I think I do have a townread on you for now but it's based on play, not your choice not to hide.
The fact you can explain it thoroughly is good, though.
-
Basically, you could have been scum before N2, and if you are scum, then the rules clarification just made your fakeclaim stronger and we didn't get the verification we could have gotten from like a watcher or anyone else who could check you.
-
Basically, you could have been scum before N2, and if you are scum, then the rules clarification just made your fakeclaim stronger and we didn't get the verification we could have gotten from like a watcher or anyone else who could check you.
I think scum makes a bigger effort to undermine TWM's claim here more than town does.
That and the fact that iguana was on both mislynches.
vote: iguanaiguana
-
The advantage of having a true IC is that they could conduct things if we decide that early D3 is a good sort of point to do order-claiming and slot-claiming.
We've seen roles come out already from several slots, and mcmc's HH power seems like we may already have outed the person who picked first.
I think it will put a load of extra pressure on scum, because either they've prepared for it by picking townie roles, or we catch them out for having picked things they can't possibly verify.
I think now is a good time to do it, because the more people we lose, the more of a chance they have to claim to have picked slots they didn't take, or turn orders other than their own without too much of a chance of being contradicted.
What do the rest of you think? For a group this size, it's going to take a while to orchestrate the claiming even with an IC to dictate the order, so I think right now at the start of the day is the right point in time to be discussing it.
-
Basically, you could have been scum before N2, and if you are scum, then the rules clarification just made your fakeclaim stronger and we didn't get the verification we could have gotten from like a watcher or anyone else who could check you.
I think scum makes a bigger effort to undermine TWM's claim here more than town does.
That and the fact that iguana was on both mislynches.
vote: iguanaiguana
I was on yesterday's lynch only because I thought it was super important to get a lynch through before TWM went on vacation.
-
Which turned out to be pointless, apparently.
-
I think before the rules clarification, you already had a plausible reason to claim you didn't hide behind MCMC because you talked a lot about how you want to use your ability to cop unknown players.
I talked specifically about using my role to cop unknown players on Night 3 and beyond. There was never any statement that I wouldn't follow the plan on Night 2.
-
Basically, you could have been scum before N2, and if you are scum, then the rules clarification just made your fakeclaim stronger and we didn't get the verification we could have gotten from like a watcher or anyone else who could check you.
I think scum makes a bigger effort to undermine TWM's claim here more than town does.
That and the fact that iguana was on both mislynches.
vote: iguanaiguana
2.7 is scummier here than iguana. I don't really find his statements about me to be suspicious. More like town with a limited perspective looking at it from every conceivable angle.
-
Which turned out to be pointless, apparently.
Yes. It was. What was frustrating wasn't that people joined that lynch to get it through. It was that half of the town stopped playing for 4 days when we could have gotten a much better lynch through with players voting for actual reasons instead of voting to get a wagon through.
There has already been some talk of who those players were, but I think that needs to be a focal point of discussion today.
-
Basically, you could have been scum before N2, and if you are scum, then the rules clarification just made your fakeclaim stronger and we didn't get the verification we could have gotten from like a watcher or anyone else who could check you.
I think scum makes a bigger effort to undermine TWM's claim here more than town does.
That and the fact that iguana was on both mislynches.
vote: iguanaiguana
I was on yesterday's lynch only because I thought it was super important to get a lynch through before TWM went on vacation.
I think scum wants to hide behind this as well. Gets you towncred from TWM (possibly) and looks like you are trying to cooperate with town for the win. I really did not like how that lynch happened so quickly. I mean, I didn't have an issue with the lynch itself (I was voting Andrew most of the day yesterday), but the way it happened was not at all beneficial to us.
And we didn't need TWM to insure mcmc got the hammer, since TWM wasn't even voting Andrew at the end of the day.
-
And once again. We lynched quickly so that I could be sure to get my night action in on time as Robz didn't allow conditional actions to be submitted. I didn't need to be part of the wagon and never felt I needed to be part of the wagon and never stated that I needed to be part of the wagon.
There were 4 days between the time that I announced my VLA and when I went. That was sufficient time to get a lynch together in enough time for me to participate in the night actions. That is was rushed was not my fault or mcmc's fault. It was the fault of the players who thought we could casually float through the game (or scum who adopted that attitude for other reasons and those are who we should look for tomorrow).
-
Basically, you could have been scum before N2, and if you are scum, then the rules clarification just made your fakeclaim stronger and we didn't get the verification we could have gotten from like a watcher or anyone else who could check you.
I think scum makes a bigger effort to undermine TWM's claim here more than town does.
That and the fact that iguana was on both mislynches.
vote: iguanaiguana
I was on yesterday's lynch only because I thought it was super important to get a lynch through before TWM went on vacation.
I think scum wants to hide behind this as well. Gets you towncred from TWM (possibly) and looks like you are trying to cooperate with town for the win. I really did not like how that lynch happened so quickly. I mean, I didn't have an issue with the lynch itself (I was voting Andrew most of the day yesterday), but the way it happened was not at all beneficial to us.
And we didn't need TWM to insure mcmc got the hammer, since TWM wasn't even voting Andrew at the end of the day.
I have been increasingly disappointed that wagons I joined that looked like they had decent chances of hitting scum are hitting VTs and even that people who looked like they could be scum like Cuzz are now flipping town. So I started the day by considering that the people who ended up causing yesterday's through a plan they created and I thought looked strong are not town.
Now you are suspecting me both for sheeping yesterday and today for thinking for myself.
Yesterday my hypothesis was that scum would not show up at lynch time because if McMc is town then they would want to steal the hammer. But the main person I suspected of that yesterday (Galzria) ended up casting the L-1 vote. So today I need to reevaluate.
Anyway I guess I don't mind you so much suspecting me for doing so. That's better than the hard ignoring me that most players have done this game.
-
Above should say 'causing yesterday's lynch.'
-
Are you both fucking kidding me. We spend all of yesterday with everyone dictating how I am to play my role with the wrong assumption on the rules. That rule gets changed and I am just supposed to maintain the status quo? Did I ruin your precious little mafia plan?
Remember how Robz said 'this doesn't mean there's a bus driver?'
Oh my God you are right!?!? Duck. I am such a moron. I didn't realize he said that. I only read the part of his post that I wanted to read and just automatically assumed that there must be a bus driver. I mean. It isn't like bus driver is a role that mafia would gravitate toward getting. And it isn't like we had talked about this possibility before during Day 2. And it wasn't like I couldn't do the exact same thing tomorrow or Day 4. Shoot man. I was just totally wrong.
Is that what you want to hear? Cause duck that.
Lol
-
Interesting that we had one lover die last night.
TWM is in an awkward spot where he declined to do the only thing that would verify him but for a pretty good reason.
-
I'm gonna go with a Vote: iguanaiguana
I think one of him or 2.7 are scum.
-
I'm gonna go with a Vote: iguanaiguana
I think one of him or 2.7 are scum.
Then vote 2.7.
-
I'm gonna go with a Vote: iguanaiguana
I think one of him or 2.7 are scum.
Then vote 2.7.
Also partner alert if 2.7 flips scum.
-
I'm gonna go with a Vote: iguanaiguana
I think one of him or 2.7 are scum.
Why not both?
-
I'm gonna go with a Vote: iguanaiguana
I think one of him or 2.7 are scum.
Then vote 2.7.
I think iguanaiguana is more scum.
-
I'm gonna go with a Vote: iguanaiguana
I think one of him or 2.7 are scum.
Then vote 2.7.
Also partner alert if 2.7 flips scum.
Yeah, I'd be that obvious.
-
I'm gonna go with a Vote: iguanaiguana
I think one of him or 2.7 are scum.
Then vote 2.7.
Also partner alert if 2.7 flips scum.
Yeah, I'd be that obvious.
Why not? Scum makes mistakes too.
-
I'm gonna go with a Vote: iguanaiguana
I think one of him or 2.7 are scum.
Then vote 2.7.
Also partner alert if 2.7 flips scum.
Yeah, I'd be that obvious.
Why not? Scum makes mistakes too.
Also, something about people saying "I wouldn't do that as scum" still just irks me, even though it is kind of an inevitable argument.
-
@Robz
Would a lover's pair be flipped as "Masonic Lover" or "Vanilla Townie".
The rules say the VT-turned-lover is a lover for investigatory purposes. To me that suggests on death they aren't flipped as Lover but instead VT, but this is counter to how lover works in normal, standard games.
-
@Robz
Would a lover's pair be flipped as "Masonic Lover" or "Vanilla Townie".
The rules say the VT-turned-lover is a lover for investigatory purposes. To me that suggests on death they aren't flipped as Lover but instead VT, but this is counter to how lover works in normal, standard games.
Both Masonic Lovers would flip as Masonic Lovers--the one who got it from the draft, and the one assigned it randomly.
-
Two things.
First:
AndrewisFTTW, the Vanilla Townie, has been lynched.
Neener-neener-neener.
Second. I chose to not hide last night.
Hey twm...
Cuzz, the Vanilla Townie, has been killed.[/b]
Cuzz was also town who almost got lynched before I forced everyone not to vote him so maybe get off your high horse and stop acting like everyone's "controlling you" clearly you did whatever you wanted.
Also I'm curious how robz posting the changed buss driver rule changed your night action when you didn't have any internet acces. We rushed to a lynch just so you clumsy get your action in. And at that time robz had 100% confirmed bus driving was not a problem. I have no problem with the rule change but I do have a problem with you claiming it's why you didn't hide. You have done tons of yelling about wanting to do your own thing while also pushing town to do things you want "lynch before your gone because you didn't trust me to get the hammer" and then you also don't chose to hide before knowing there is any problem with hiding.
-
1. @MCMC the night was extended past TWM being VLA right? But yes, TWM was totally going to lynch a confirmed townie and should get off his high horse.
2. we can have a confirmed IC if Eevee's lover claims. Scum is unlikely to claim they were eevee's lover now. At the same time, i'm not sure if there's a benefit to having them claim now as opposed to claiming later if we were potentially lynching them. Claim now: save potential PR waste and town knows that they are town (which mafia already knows). Claim later: Don't alert Scum to someone that isn't an important PR.
IMO in games with decent role density ICs are still considered pro-town in general so i think eevee's lover should claim. I'm very open to counterarguments though.
-
On the one hand, assuming TWM/mcmc are both town, and both follow the "2-IC-unkillable" plan (which TWM doesn't seem worth doing - maybe this has changed knowing there is Masonic?) --- scum WANT to know who is town and who isn't (opposing faction). Here I think the other Masonic claiming is bad.
On the other hand - I agree with much of O's thoughts on the situation.
Ultimately, if I were the other mason, I wouldn't claim. At least not now. It's a decent claim to hold onto, and can't really be counterclaims to the detriment of town prior to a Lyle type situation.
-
Deem*, not seem.
-
Wow. A few typos there. My phone hasn't learned what words should be in my dictionary (LyLo) and not...
-
With masonic lover known, the odds that scum have 1-shot bus driver seem minimal comparatively so not sure why the original plan shouldnt be followed thru with. This was not the case last night obviously.
TWM is by no means confirmed townie by his behavior so maybe that explains the hesitation.
-
With masonic lover known, the odds that scum have 1-shot bus driver seem minimal comparatively so not sure why the original plan shouldnt be followed thru with. This was not the case last night obviously.
TWM is by no means confirmed townie by his behavior so maybe that explains the hesitation.
Of course. I wasn't so much referring to last night (prior to Robz rule change and the Masonic flip) as I was to his statements yesterday. I think he did the right thing last night, despite the unfortunate situation we're now in knowing nothing new (except that there are lovers in game - which doesn't exactly "help". It's just new).
-
If I was the VT turned Mason and Eevee won the slot, I'd claim. That way we'd know there was a doctor or whatever other protective role(s) exist.
-
Vote: TWM
-
I have zero desire to play a game with people who are going to accuse me of lying about VLA. That is a personal attack and I won't tolerate it.
-
And I never voted for Cuzz and thought he wasnt a great wagon. There were better options than both. What I disliked was a systematic dislike of my other reads because people thought my Andrew read was bad. Guess what it wasn't. Maybe my other reads arent awful as well?
-
Unvote
Over-reaction on my part. Apologies in advance. But please believe me when I say I did not cheat or lie about VLA or try and manipulate the game in anyway shape or form. If you feel I did take it up with Robz.
-
I have zero desire to play a game with people who are going to accuse me of lying about VLA. That is a personal attack and I won't tolerate it.
hey
People weigh variants, or they may be scum, or they may be super paranoid. Either way I am sure no one tries or tried to personally attack you. don't freak out please, you do this from the beginning of the day for little to no reason
-
I have zero desire to play a game with people who are going to accuse me of lying about VLA. That is a personal attack and I won't tolerate it.
I assume you're talking about mcmc's #2647. To be fair, I don't think he accused you of lying about VLA. Regardless, I don't think either your gloating about a mislynch or his calling you clumsy etc are very helpful at all, unless either of you are accusing the other of being scum.
-
Second. I chose to not hide last night.
You are not being a good.
Why? Cause I didn't want mafia to bus drive me into themselves. No thank you.
Why didn't you just hide behind someone else?
-
Anyway. I think Galzria has some explaining to do.
-
Also, TWM got pretty lucky here.
-
Second. I chose to not hide last night.
You are not being a good.
Why? Cause I didn't want mafia to bus drive me into themselves. No thank you.
Why didn't you just hide behind someone else?
the risks to that are really obvious and I can't believe you don't see them.
Vote: Faust
-
Anyway. I think Galzria has some explaining to do.
You sure?
-
Second. I chose to not hide last night.
You are not being a good.
Why? Cause I didn't want mafia to bus drive me into themselves. No thank you.
Why didn't you just hide behind someone else?
the risks to that are really obvious and I can't believe you don't see them.
Vote: Faust
Okay. Next time, maybe base your vote on something more substantial?
Whether or not I know the risks does not matter for my question, I wanted TWM to explain in his own words (which he since has done, so nevermind).
-
Anyway. I think Galzria has some explaining to do.
You sure?
Yes.
-
Second. I chose to not hide last night.
You are not being a good.
Why? Cause I didn't want mafia to bus drive me into themselves. No thank you.
Why didn't you just hide behind someone else?
the risks to that are really obvious and I can't believe you don't see them.
Vote: Faust
Okay. Next time, maybe base your vote on something more substantial?
Whether or not I know the risks does not matter for my question, I wanted TWM to explain in his own words (which he since has done, so nevermind).
"my purposefully ignorant question are prods but O could never be prodding me"
unvote either way
-
Alright.
Pretty straight forward here (I'm mobile and... somewhat intoxicated):
I'm a Jailkeeper.
I had pick #20, and didn't think I had a great chance at anything so I took slot #11. That gave me a completely random PR.
Night 1 I jailed Faust - partially because of a slight scum read on him day 1, and slightly because I saw value in him as town. Added in his insistence that he always dies N1 it seemed like an ok choice.
When he opened day 2 commenting that the kill structure looked like SK, it led me to believe that he could kill (vig), but either didn't (choice), or couldn't (me). This led me to my town read on him, and my question to him about his feelings regarding the results of N1.
Midway through d2, following the claims, I realized (my softclaim) that I can Jail mcmc each night, and unless there's a Strongman he can kill through me without being targeted. This protects him and adds an unlimited town Vig to the equation.
I Jailed Ash last night based on thoughts and reads from end of day yesterday. If I'm right about Faust and he shot, then we're missing a death and this could be why. If not, then I don't know.
-
Which game did you guess?
-
M87
-
I am inclined to believe that Galzria is telling the truth about his draft. That being said I don't see the benefit of claiming now.
-
of galz claiming now, to clarify.
-
so if Faust claims vig Ash is likely SK/Scum who fired shot?
-
I am inclined to believe that Galzria is telling the truth about his draft. That being said I don't see the benefit of claiming now.
85% of it was based off my read on Faust, his recognizing of my read (whatever it meant to him yesterday), and his insistence that I reveal today.
There's a chance that HE'S the SK in my scenario, but I don't believe the pieces add up.
-
I am inclined to believe that Galzria is telling the truth about his draft. That being said I don't see the benefit of claiming now.
85% of it was based off my read on Faust, his recognizing of my read (whatever it meant to him yesterday), and his insistence that I reveal today.
There's a chance that HE'S the SK in my scenario, but I don't believe the pieces add up.
Right. I should have said if Faust claims Vig it's very likely one of Faust/Ashersky is scum.
-
also part of your plan is conditional on there not being a strongman. You do realize there's like 75% shot of there being a strongman if you're being truthful?
Odds of mafia getting that slot vs odds of SK getting that slot... though I suppose SK might gun for it more, but i think the slots equally appealing to both scum factions.
-
Okay then.
I am the 2-shot Vigilante. I have received the first spot in the draft order. The game that got the most votes was M19.
I already thought Galzria would claim as he did, he softclaimed pretty heavily.
And with that, vote: Galzria
Some explanation:
- he claims to have blocked the two players that are most likely to have strong PRs.
- him thinking I am the vig based on very circumstantial evidence shows he is actively looking for a vig. Which is the kind of thing mafia would do if they don't have that role in their team.
- he basically outed both of us as PRs on D2 with no benefit to town. The only thing he could hope to get with that move is my trust, and that is something that scum wants much much more than town.
- the jailkeep mcmc plan is obviously awful due to Strongman/Roelbocker (both of which exist separately AND as part of a JOAT).
-
also part of your plan is conditional on there not being a strongman. You do realize there's like 75% shot of there being a strongman if you're being truthful?
Odds of mafia getting that slot vs odds of SK getting that slot... though I suppose SK might gun for it more, but i think the slots equally appealing to both scum factions.
Yeah - It's definitely a scum slot. There's not really much reason for town to go for it except to block scum - but that's unlikely like, 0% chance as I got JK on random, which is what town would've taken.
So either Mafia have Strongman, we have WW's, or nobody took the slot.
I guess the idea just sounded great in my head. It may still be ok. mcmc could randomize. I could randomize. I dunno.
-
@faust,
Just out of curiosity, why have you taken vig being in the first slot?
-
Okay then.
I am the 2-shot Vigilante. I have received the first spot in the draft order. The game that got the most votes was M19.
I already thought Galzria would claim as he did, he softclaimed pretty heavily.
And with that, vote: Galzria
Some explanation:
- he claims to have blocked the two players that are most likely to have strong PRs.
- him thinking I am the vig based on very circumstantial evidence shows he is actively looking for a vig. Which is the kind of thing mafia would do if they don't have that role in their team.
- he basically outed both of us as PRs on D2 with no benefit to town. The only thing he could hope to get with that move is my trust, and that is something that scum wants much much more than town.
- the jailkeep mcmc plan is obviously awful due to Strongman/Roelbocker (both of which exist separately AND as part of a JOAT).
Point 1: I don't understand why you and Ash are the "two players that are most likely to have strong PRs." - but my reasons for choosing you two are listed above.
Point 2: I don't think it was at all highly circumstantial. I knew who I jailed (you) N1. You opened d2 by claiming the kill on Cal looked like the SK kill, and that you had something you might want to discuss. The pieces HEAVILY indicated you were a Vig. I wasn't -looking- for it, but c'mon.
Point 3: Yes, I did out us both as PR's. For different reasons though. Your claim was obvious to me. As an individual. If I saw that mafia would almost certainly see it as a group. Prior to mcmc's claim I thought we would lead to your claiming d2. His claim changed things and I dropped it. My "outing" of myself was because I thought my PR would be useful to town. It still might be - although O is correct regarding Strongman. Either way, my choices were to say nothing and hope nobody noticed (I didn't feel this likely), or say something and hope it lead somewhere productive. I didn't straight up call you out yesterday because I still wanted it to be your call - same for today. Hence my asking if you were sure.
-
Also, and this isn't super helpful (WIFOM crap), but if I knew you were Vig and I was scum:
A) I probably would've stayed quiet and told my buddies last night instead of calling it out in the thread, yeah?
And
B) Pretty sure I would insist we shoot you last night.
Also, I want a conditional vote: Ashersky --- Faust, did you shoot one of those two last night?
-
@faust,
Just out of curiosity, why have you taken vig being in the first slot?
Well a couple of things.
I know I don't have a big life expectancy in mafia games. Cop roles are good for town, but I was too worried about being killed early without any useful results. Vig has a more immediate impact, and also it's limited to 2 shots, so I was more likely able to use to the full potential. Plus vig is very problematic in the hands of scum.
IC was out of the question since I expected to be killed early anyway and then that would have no use.
There was nothing similarly strong in other slots.
-
Also, I want a conditional vote: Ashersky --- Faust, did you shoot one of those two last night?
You would like to know, wouldn't you?
-
Also, if you DID shoot n1 that shot wasn't used (confirmed with Robz), so you still have at least one shot left regardless of if you shot last night.
-
Also, I want a conditional vote: Ashersky --- Faust, did you shoot one of those two last night?
You would like to know, wouldn't you?
Yes, because it would indicate the likelihood of Ash being scum.
-
Also, if you DID shoot n1 that shot wasn't used (confirmed with Robz), so you still have at least one shot left regardless of if you shot last night.
Thank you for telling everyone what they really didn't need to hear.
-
Also, if you DID shoot n1 that shot wasn't used (confirmed with Robz), so you still have at least one shot left regardless of if you shot last night.
Thank you for telling everyone what they really didn't need to hear.
I don't see why it hurts.
-
Also, if you DID shoot n1 that shot wasn't used (confirmed with Robz), so you still have at least one shot left regardless of if you shot last night.
Thank you for telling everyone what they really didn't need to hear.
I don't see why it hurts.
Further, you may not have realized. Would you like me to have PM'd you? Pretty sure that's against the rules.
-
Also, if you DID shoot n1 that shot wasn't used (confirmed with Robz), so you still have at least one shot left regardless of if you shot last night.
Thank you for telling everyone what they really didn't need to hear.
I don't see why it hurts.
Further, you may not have realized. Would you like me to have PM'd you? Pretty sure that's against the rules.
Because there are certain obvious advantages to scum thinking I have no shots left.
I would like you to have trusted me to know how to use my own PR.
-
Also, if you DID shoot n1 that shot wasn't used (confirmed with Robz), so you still have at least one shot left regardless of if you shot last night.
Thank you for telling everyone what they really didn't need to hear.
If Faust assumes Galz was scum there's very little reason for Faust to be upset at Galzria for saying this.
That being said I still think Ashersky is by far the most likely scum, and Faust could nearly confirm that if he did shoot yesterday I believe?
-
vote: Galzria
Was it really needed to claim? Why do you intent ash is scum before you know if faust shot? That all looks like a (badly) fabricated plan actually
PPE: 2
-
Also, if you DID shoot n1 that shot wasn't used (confirmed with Robz), so you still have at least one shot left regardless of if you shot last night.
Thank you for telling everyone what they really didn't need to hear.
If Faust assumes Galz was scum there's very little reason for Faust to be upset at Galzria for saying this.
That being said I still think Ashersky is by far the most likely scum, and Faust could nearly confirm that if he did shoot yesterday I believe?
Well I cannot be sure, right? I am sure that Galzria played this wrong if he is indeed town.
I don't think ashersky is anywhere near confirmed scum, and I don't trust Galzria.
-
Point 1: I don't understand why you and Ash are the "two players that are most likely to have strong PRs." - but my reasons for choosing you two are listed above. .
Because we are the two players in this game that have been active parts of this community for the largest amount of time, and thus are likely to perform well in the draft process.
-
my initial impression says that it's better for the town for Faust to claim who he shot, which makes me suspicious of Faust for not revealing.
The most important thing is that we lynch the scum today. Scum knowing whether or not Faust has a vig shot is probably unimportant? unless he has 2 vig shots, he is only semi-hampered in his ability to get a last vig shot off. If Galz is scum jailkeeper i presume jailkeeping Faust prevents them from killing faust? not entire sure.
-
my initial impression says that it's better for the town for Faust to claim who he shot, which makes me suspicious of Faust for not revealing.
The most important thing is that we lynch the scum today. Scum knowing whether or not Faust has a vig shot is probably unimportant? unless he has 2 vig shots, he is only semi-hampered in his ability to get a last vig shot off. If Galz is scum jailkeeper i presume jailkeeping Faust prevents them from killing faust? not entire sure.
I guess it's either Jailkeeping or killing
-
or Jailkeeping and Strongman killing
-
are Faust and Ashersky really two of the most well respected players likely to be high on the draft?
-
vote: Galzria
Was it really needed to claim? Why do you intent ash is scum before you know if faust shot? That all looks like a (badly) fabricated plan actually
PPE: 2
I claimed because Faust asked me to, and following n1 I felt (and correctly so) that my claim had the biggest impact on him. I could've lied about who I jailed n1, or why that made me read Faust the way I did, or he'll, what my PR is even - but lying as town is stupid.
Ash has a high likelihood of being scum if Faust shot because there were only two deaths.
SK + Mafia + Vig = 3. If we know the Vig is one, then one scum shot was likely blocked (or hit the same target I suppose). As I know I blocked Ash, this would lead to the idea that if Faust shot, Ash has a decent chance to be scum.
-
are Faust and Ashersky really two of the most well respected players likely to be high on the draft?
Well we do have the most games played among all signed-up players, I'm fairly sure.
-
are Faust and Ashersky really two of the most well respected players likely to be high on the draft?
Well we do have the most games played among all signed-up players, I'm fairly sure.
either this is immediately obvious to pretty much everyone or the majority of players here disagree with you from my drafting perspective.
-
are Faust and Ashersky really two of the most well respected players likely to be high on the draft?
yup. But so was gkrieg for one
-
vote: Galzria
Was it really needed to claim? Why do you intent ash is scum before you know if faust shot? That all looks like a (badly) fabricated plan actually
PPE: 2
I claimed because Faust asked me to, and following n1 I felt (and correctly so) that my claim had the biggest impact on him. I could've lied about who I jailed n1, or why that made me read Faust the way I did, or he'll, what my PR is even - but lying as town is stupid.
Ash has a high likelihood of being scum if Faust shot because there were only two deaths.
SK + Mafia + Vig = 3. If we know the Vig is one, then one scum shot was likely blocked (or hit the same target I suppose). As I know I blocked Ash, this would lead to the idea that if Faust shot, Ash has a decent chance to be scum.
You're logic makes little sense.
If I didn't shoot, then there were 2 kills and mafia shot one of Cuzz/Eevee/Eevee's lover (? Not sure about the interaction there)
If I did shoot, and mafia shot one of these, then that explains only 2 kills as well.
So the question you should ask is, did scum shoot one of these? Whether or not I shot doesn't really matter for this.
-
vote: Galzria
Was it really needed to claim? Why do you intent ash is scum before you know if faust shot? That all looks like a (badly) fabricated plan actually
PPE: 2
I claimed because Faust asked me to, and following n1 I felt (and correctly so) that my claim had the biggest impact on him. I could've lied about who I jailed n1, or why that made me read Faust the way I did, or he'll, what my PR is even - but lying as town is stupid.
Ash has a high likelihood of being scum if Faust shot because there were only two deaths.
SK + Mafia + Vig = 3. If we know the Vig is one, then one scum shot was likely blocked (or hit the same target I suppose). As I know I blocked Ash, this would lead to the idea that if Faust shot, Ash has a decent chance to be scum.
You're logic makes little sense.
If I didn't shoot, then there were 2 kills and mafia shot one of Cuzz/Eevee/Eevee's lover (? Not sure about the interaction there)
If I did shoot, and mafia shot one of these, then that explains only 2 kills as well.
So the question you should ask is, did scum shoot one of these? Whether or not I shot doesn't really matter for this.
what? this isn't parsing at all.
-
Eevee's lover has no reason to be shot at all. Eevee's lover has survived, so Eevee wouldn't be dead if the lover was the one targeted.
-
Faust, I'm not understanding your misunderstanding about the death count.
If you shoot, SK shoots, and Mafia shoot then we should expect 3 deaths (assuming nobody shoots the same target).
But there were only 2 deaths. If you didn't shoot, then that makes sense. SK killed, and Mafia killed.
If you DID shoot though, then one death is missing (we have 2, not 3). My assertion is that it's likely I blocked scum!Ash in this scenario. The other option here would be cross-shooting, which I find less likely.
-
we should expect either 3 or 4 deaths. Not 2 or 3. Why does it seem I'm the only one who acknowledges this.
-
unless lover is uni-directional, but that's also very much not standard.
-
we should expect either 3 or 4 deaths. Not 2 or 3. Why does it seem I'm the only one who acknowledges this.
Because you're scum.
-
we should expect either 3 or 4 deaths. Not 2 or 3. Why does it seem I'm the only one who acknowledges this.
Because you're scum.
not gonna lie i chuckled at this one.
-
we should expect either 3 or 4 deaths. Not 2 or 3. Why does it seem I'm the only one who acknowledges this.
SK, Vig, Mafia - where is the other "expected" death coming from? There's ways to run up the count, sure (HH, Inventor Poison, Hider, front side of Masonic getting killed, etc), but I'm not sure where you're getting the other expected death.
-
unless lover is uni-directional, but that's also very much not standard.
Ah. Um... (looking at roles, 2 minutes)
-
Faust, I'm not understanding your misunderstanding about the death count.
If you shoot, SK shoots, and Mafia shoot then we should expect 3 deaths (assuming nobody shoots the same target).
But there were only 2 deaths. If you didn't shoot, then that makes sense. SK killed, and Mafia killed.
If you DID shoot though, then one death is missing (we have 2, not 3). My assertion is that it's likely I blocked scum!Ash in this scenario. The other option here would be cross-shooting, which I find less likely.
Either mafia shot one of Cuzz/Eevee, or they didn't.
If they did, we have no evidence on ash.
If they didn't, then we have a missing kill.
This is independent from whether or not I shot tonight.
-
unless lover is uni-directional, but that's also very much not standard.
Ah. Um... (looking at roles, 2 minutes)
"Masonic Lover
Quote
You are a Masonic Lover!
Quote from: Eevee on December 29, 2012, 06:23:25 am
Grujah, why the vote on me? I'm a freaking mason! We are confirmed town to each other with arch..
(If Not-Town) This role has no effect.
(If Town) A random Vanilla Townie will receive a QT with you. (This player's role will now be considered Masonic Lover for investigatory purposes.) This QT is always open. You will be confirmed town to each other.
If you die, this other player dies as well, unless protected from a kill. But if the other player dies, you will not die."
-
It's uni-directional
-
i
unless lover is uni-directional, but that's also very much not standard.
Ah. Um... (looking at roles, 2 minutes)
"Masonic Lover
Quote
You are a Masonic Lover!
Quote from: Eevee on December 29, 2012, 06:23:25 am
Grujah, why the vote on me? I'm a freaking mason! We are confirmed town to each other with arch..
(If Not-Town) This role has no effect.
(If Town) A random Vanilla Townie will receive a QT with you. (This player's role will now be considered Masonic Lover for investigatory purposes.) This QT is always open. You will be confirmed town to each other.
If you die, this other player dies as well, unless protected from a kill. But if the other player dies, you will not die."
Oh. I can't read. That's very much not standard.
-
Alright. It's almost 2AM here, I've had a long (fun, but long) day and I'm sleepy. Hopefully more people will join in the fun by morning.
-
Faust, I'm not understanding your misunderstanding about the death count.
If you shoot, SK shoots, and Mafia shoot then we should expect 3 deaths (assuming nobody shoots the same target).
But there were only 2 deaths. If you didn't shoot, then that makes sense. SK killed, and Mafia killed.
If you DID shoot though, then one death is missing (we have 2, not 3). My assertion is that it's likely I blocked scum!Ash in this scenario. The other option here would be cross-shooting, which I find less likely.
Either mafia shot one of Cuzz/Eevee, or they didn't.
If they did, we have no evidence on ash.
If they didn't, then we have a missing kill.
This is independent from whether or not I shot tonight.
This literally makes no sense in the slightest to me. If you shot cuzz/eevee there are 3 expected kills and one was blocked. If you didn't there are two expected kills. It's pointless for us to ask whether mafia shot Cuzz/Eevee or not because Ash being mafia, being blocked and shooting someone else is a potential case if you shot one of cuzz/eevee.
-
Even if Mafia shot Cuzz/Eevee, if you shot Cuzz/Eevee there is still evidence against Ash, the missing theoretical third kill. Obviously this is WIFOM on whether you're lying about vig or Ash is lying but it's still substantial evidence. Your second line is entirely false.
-
Well fine. I shot Cuzz, it's not like that will come as a surprice to anyone.
-
vote: Ashersky
Galzria's claim was probably not optimal play but since Awaclus is alive we know f.ds doesn't lynch for suboptimal play.
I was frankly amazed that nobody hopped on the Ashersky wagon yesterday given how obvious it felt to me by how he was ranting. He seems the most likely to be scum to me of Galzria/Faust/Ashersky, though technically it's not guaranteed that one of the three is scum at all.
-
I don't believe in suboptimal play of Galzria. something pings me here
-
I don't believe in suboptimal play of Galzria. something pings me here
Maybe he evolved into some super mafia god after I left but he wasn't better or worse than anyone else when I played with him.
He's 10-9 in normal mafia games too, so I actually think your opinion isn't really backed up by stats either. This isn't trying to put Galzria down... I just don't see what you see.
-
actually the whole argument is redundant. If Galzria is scum it's still hard to see how claiming was optimal here, he only fished out a bit about Vig and put himself under the spotlight.
Unless you can make an argument for why Galzria claiming here is an effective scum play the "Galzria doesn't make mistakes" philosophy isn't relevant.
-
actually the whole argument is redundant. If Galzria is scum it's still hard to see how claiming was optimal here, he only fished out a bit about Vig and put himself under the spotlight.
Unless you can make an argument for why Galzria claiming here is an effective scum play the "Galzria doesn't make mistakes" philosophy isn't relevant.
to mislynch ash who may be known to mafia as a strong town pr maybe
-
actually the whole argument is redundant. If Galzria is scum it's still hard to see how claiming was optimal here, he only fished out a bit about Vig and put himself under the spotlight.
Unless you can make an argument for why Galzria claiming here is an effective scum play the "Galzria doesn't make mistakes" philosophy isn't relevant.
to mislynch ash who may be known to mafia as a strong town pr maybe
and they can't nightkill him?
-
Galzria's claim was probably not optimal play but since Awaclus is alive we know f.ds doesn't lynch for suboptimal play.
And since you're alive, we also know f.ds doesn't lynch for being scum.
-
actually the whole argument is redundant. If Galzria is scum it's still hard to see how claiming was optimal here, he only fished out a bit about Vig and put himself under the spotlight.
Unless you can make an argument for why Galzria claiming here is an effective scum play the "Galzria doesn't make mistakes" philosophy isn't relevant.
to mislynch ash who may be known to mafia as a strong town pr maybe
and they can't nightkill him?
yeah, okay, doesn't make sense. unvote
-
i don't know. I 100% believe faust here though
-
are Faust and Ashersky really two of the most well respected players likely to be high on the draft?
yup. But so was gkrieg for one
Still catching up with what was said overnight (from my perspective), but I definitely agree with this.
-
2. we can have a confirmed IC if Eevee's lover claims. Scum is unlikely to claim they were eevee's lover now. At the same time, i'm not sure if there's a benefit to having them claim now as opposed to claiming later if we were potentially lynching them. Claim now: save potential PR waste and town knows that they are town (which mafia already knows). Claim later: Don't alert Scum to someone that isn't an important PR.
This is exactly what I'd said a whole bunch of posts earlier... what did you think about that post, and my subsequent claiming suggestion?
The fact that we've had Galz and faust talking about their roles, slots and claiming order in the intervening posts means I still think it's a good time to claim draft order and slot bidding.
-
So Faust and Gala are partners here, pretty much.
-
Being jailed also means I was doctored, which would account for a missing death, if there is one.
O's personal opinions of the current crop of veterans' value as human beings and mafia players aside (given he quit before Robz published the Civility Pledge, I guess that's allowed?), players like faust and myself are NK targets for our active players. If you want to play all sorts of "what if" games, remember that missing kills -- if any are missing -- are not caused solely by blockers. Doctoring is a thing, even in this particular setup.
-
On the Mason -- I think the claim is sensible considering how badly this game needs a voice we can all trust.
The "almost ICs" don't have that universally, even mcmc. TWM has received some suspicion, Awaclus is not loved by many. So yes, a verified IC makes complete sense at this juncture.
-
On faust killing Cuzz -- that's only a lie if he's mafia/WW covering for a partner. And if it is a lie, it's as good as the truth for all intents and purposes.
Cuzz was a decisive presence, so I can see how this lays things to rest. We can trust his opinions in retrospect, which sometimes felt haphazard.
As for Eevee's death, harder to explain given his relative lack of presence in the game.
-
So Faust and Gala are partners here, pretty much.
Can you expand on this? Seems like a risky move to tie themselves together so much so soon. Desperate times, I guess, especially if they are WW together.
-
Second. I chose to not hide last night.
You are not being a good.
Why? Cause I didn't want mafia to bus drive me into themselves. No thank you.
Why didn't you just hide behind someone else?
I thought about it. But felt that because town would have no idea who I hid behind, if I died the knowledge would die with me or potentially falsely implicate mcmc.
-
O's personal opinions of the current crop of veterans' value as human beings and mafia players aside (given he quit before Robz published the Civility Pledge, I guess that's allowed?)
What? This post is literally more uncivil than anything I said. Do you think "I don't think Galzria is scum just because he's playing non-perfectly" is some massive indictment of Galzria's value as a human being?
-
Also, TWM got pretty lucky here.
Why?
I did what I thought mafia thought I was least likely to do. I think I properly WIFOMed them
-
Further on Galz, everything he's written reads as the town!Galz from years ago. Both jailing targets make sense on some level, especially separately.
Together, though, seems harder. Given I definitely think it's true that Galz thought faust was a killing role, I'm having trouble parsing why he defaults to vig (and not mafia or SK or WW) in his lines of thinking and explanations. This is the single strongest point against him.
I mean, in all his explanations, it is so very vig focused. If Galz is town, he can't know if faust is vig or scum, so the best play has to be jailing faust again.
If Galz is scum, given the situation the game is in (with town's significantly better odds of winning due to setup issues), I think he decides MORE kills are better per night, and sets the vig free.
So the change in target makes much more sense for scum tactically than town.
-
2. we can have a confirmed IC if Eevee's lover claims. Scum is unlikely to claim they were eevee's lover now. At the same time, i'm not sure if there's a benefit to having them claim now as opposed to claiming later if we were potentially lynching them. Claim now: save potential PR waste and town knows that they are town (which mafia already knows). Claim later: Don't alert Scum to someone that isn't an important PR.
This is exactly what I'd said a whole bunch of posts earlier... what did you think about that post, and my subsequent claiming suggestion?
The fact that we've had Galz and faust talking about their roles, slots and claiming order in the intervening posts means I still think it's a good time to claim draft order and slot bidding.
I agree. I probably should have quoted you when i said that to make it clear you pointed out the IC situation first.
-
O's personal opinions of the current crop of veterans' value as human beings and mafia players aside (given he quit before Robz published the Civility Pledge, I guess that's allowed?)
What? This post is literally more uncivil than anything I said. Do you think "I don't think Galzria is scum just because he's playing non-perfectly" is some massive indictment of Galzria's value as a human being?
Your thought on Galzria was not what I was referring to. I was referring to your clearly dismissive post about faust and myself.
-
I dont thi k either galz or Faust are good lynches now.
-
Also, TWM got pretty lucky here.
Why?
I did what I thought mafia thought I was least likely to do. I think I properly WIFOMed them
On TWM, given what we know now, he made the right call last night. I also don't understand faust's point, as I find it very unlikely that any scum would take a shot at a claimed Hider. Seems more likely they'd just shoot at who they think he's hiding behind in case of shenanigans there.
-
O's personal opinions of the current crop of veterans' value as human beings and mafia players aside (given he quit before Robz published the Civility Pledge, I guess that's allowed?)
What? This post is literally more uncivil than anything I said. Do you think "I don't think Galzria is scum just because he's playing non-perfectly" is some massive indictment of Galzria's value as a human being?
Your thought on Galzria was not what I was referring to. I was referring to your clearly dismissive post about faust and myself.
I'll spell it out for you since you're massively misinterpreting this.
My draft position is low and I included you and faust as the answers to the most feared scum and best townies to get PRs.
I was asking if that was general consensus because my draft position did not reflect that being the consensus. I personally voted for you and Faust as good players, but it was off of mostly arbitrary analysis since i haven't read previous mafia games largely.
-
Thanks for the clarification.
When the game is over and the answers are published, I think you'll see that those answers are not the reason for your draft position, whatever it may be.
-
no problem. sorry for the misunderstanding.
you're still scum tho and i'ma lynch you.
-
Ash, do you think you would have been a NK target last night?
In your opinion, why would a scum faction want to kill you?
-
And I will bring this up again. I think a town 1-shot Bus Driver will claim. To the extent that if someone decided to claim this on a later day I will refuse to believe them and consider them scum.
-
will claim should be "should claim."
-
And I will bring this up again. I think a town 1-shot Bus Driver will claim. To the extent that if someone decided to claim this on a later day I will refuse to believe them and consider them scum.
What do you think of having a full claim of ordering and slots today?
-
And I will bring this up again. I think a town 1-shot Bus Driver will claim. To the extent that if someone decided to claim this on a later day I will refuse to believe them and consider them scum.
What do you think of having a full claim of ordering and slots today?
Probably benefits and downsides. I wouldn't be comfortable dictating or really giving an informed opinion as correctly weighing the pro's and con's isn't something I think I would do well. I like Mason claim and the Bus Driver. Beyond that? Not sure. But I am interested in hearing from others who might be able to weigh both sides better than me.
-
Also, TWM got pretty lucky here.
Why?
I did what I thought mafia thought I was least likely to do. I think I properly WIFOMed them
I considered shooting you to test your claim.
-
Also, TWM got pretty lucky here.
Why?
I did what I thought mafia thought I was least likely to do. I think I properly WIFOMed them
I considered shooting you to test your claim.
In fact, that was my order for like the first 24 hours of the night.
-
And I will bring this up again. I think a town 1-shot Bus Driver will claim. To the extent that if someone decided to claim this on a later day I will refuse to believe them and consider them scum.
I agree with this -- a town 1-Shot BD should claim, although without targets.
And then you should try to explain why you would ever choose that role as town while we lynch you, because really, town bus driver?
-
Ash, do you think you would have been a NK target last night?
In your opinion, why would a scum faction want to kill you?
One of any number of reasons:
--Because they think I am the other scum faction.
--Because they think I have a PR.
--Because of the tried and true "his reads are too good" OR "his reads are so bad maybe people will think he was killed because they were good and throw suspicion on others."
Probably in that order, if we're being honest.
-
Also, TWM got pretty lucky here.
Why?
I did what I thought mafia thought I was least likely to do. I think I properly WIFOMed them
I considered shooting you to test your claim.
In fact, that was my order for like the first 24 hours of the night.
Well then I was lucky or rather you were lucky if you are town. I wasn't considering a vig when I made my choices.
-
Ash, do you think you would have been a NK target last night?
In your opinion, why would a scum faction want to kill you?
One of any number of reasons:
--Because they think I am the other scum faction.
--Because they think I have a PR.
--Because of the tried and true "his reads are too good" OR "his reads are so bad maybe people will think he was killed because they were good and throw suspicion on others."
Probably in that order, if we're being honest.
While we're at it, what are your reads anyway?
-
It's helpful to compile the claims so far:
Slot 1
2-shot Vigilante - faust
Innocent Child
Investigation Immune
Slot 2:
Restless Sheeper - pps
1-shot Commuter
1-shot Lightning Rod
Slot 3:
Alignment Cop
Roleblocker
Convert Serial Killer to Vanilla Townie
Slot 4
Role Cop
Watcher
Inventor
Slot 5
Doctor
JOAT (1-shot Ninja, 1-shot Strongman, 1-shot Roleblocker)
Convert Serial Killer to Survivor
Slot 6
Masonic Lover - ?/Eevee
Universal Backup
1-shot Bus Driver
Slot 7
Tracker
Godfather-er
1-shot Bulletproof
Slot 8
Strongman
Jailkeeper
Convert Serial Killer to Werewolf
Slot 9
1-shot Full Cop
Ninja
Hammer Hero - mcmc
Slot 10
Motion Detector
Hider - TWM
Gambler
Slot 11
Random unchosen PR - Galzria (Jailkeeper)
Slot 12
Random unchosen PR
Random unchosen PR
Slot 13
Random unchosen PR
Random unchosen PR
Random unchosen PR
I think that, in the light of this, I agree with mass-claiming. A lot of the remaining slots contain strong scum powers.
-
I agree with mass claiming
-
I guess we need Eevee's partner to make the order?
-
Wouldn't Eevee be the vt turned lover because the partner didn't die.
-
I don't really like mass claiming right now. If we have counterclaims that is one thing, but not the full mass claim.
Partially because people suggesting it so far (LaLight and space) are on the "slightly suspicious I need to keep a closer eye on them" list.
We have 5 claimed (and alive) PRs so far. Even without counterclaims we habe some pretty good information to go off today.
-
Also, quite an active time while I was sleeping
-
It's helpful to compile the claims so far:
Slot 8
Strongman
Jailkeeper
Convert Serial Killer to Werewolf
Slot 11
Random unchosen PR - Galzria (Jailkeeper)
I think that, in the light of this, I agree with mass-claiming. A lot of the remaining slots contain strong scum powers.
Town doesn't need strongman or SK conversion. Likely that scum has strongman or we are dealing with werewolves
-
Wouldn't Eevee be the vt turned lover because the partner didn't die.
Likely. It is not impossible that the Eevee was the original Mason and his partner was protected.
-
It's helpful to compile the claims so far:
Slot 8
Strongman
Jailkeeper
Convert Serial Killer to Werewolf
Slot 11
Random unchosen PR - Galzria (Jailkeeper)
I think that, in the light of this, I agree with mass-claiming. A lot of the remaining slots contain strong scum powers.
Town doesn't need strongman or SK conversion. Likely that scum has strongman or we are dealing with werewolves
Which is why claiming is good.
-
I'm fine with a massclaim.
-
Some more explanation: Whoever got slot 8 would have to lie and say they're VT. Then we can go on from there to figure out who lies.
-
I am inclined to believe Galzria right now, and with Faust shooting Cuzz last night that is only one scum kill last night. Based on N1 I think SK/werewolf is likely, and I think that makes ashersky very suspicious right now.
Yes, I know, JK blocking someone and a kill not going through does not mean that person is scum, but sometimes simplest explanations are the true ones
Vote: ashersky
Unless a doctor wants to claim to have protected him last night.
-
Yes, I know, JK blocking someone and a kill not going through does not mean that person is scum, but sometimes simplest explanations are the true ones
Well, you're the expert...
-
Can someone explain to me in 4 sentences or less why faust must resolve to town due to the reveals of today?
The only towny thing I've gotten was he did claim to shoot the guy he tunneled hard all game and now looks like he is willing to do something besides that.
-
Partially because people suggesting it so far (LaLight and space) are on the "slightly suspicious I need to keep a closer eye on them" list.
Why not evaluate it on the merits of the plan, rather than because you're suspicious of players?
The claiming plan is tough to think through, which I assume is why so many people are willing to ignore it and see what other people think. TWM's response felt honest for pretty much admitting that. I like that faust supports it, because he's someone I'd expect to be fine with this depth of setupy thinking.
I'm pretty unsurprised that you object, because of how you were also against the same sort of plan in RMM37, and I assume it doesn't play well to your own feelings about your strengths in Mafia games. However, I urge you to try to think through. My feeling is that turning the heat up on anyone who's got anything to hide in terms of bidding order and slots chosen is going to lead not only to interesting setup mechanic slips, but good old-fashioned opportunities for those of you who're good at reads and tone and stuff too.
Also, quite an active time while I was sleeping
Hah.. try living in Europe!
-
If Eevee's lover doesn't want to claim, would everyone else be happy with a claim order if it was agreed upon by both mcmc and TWM? And/or faust?
I don't think any of us has reason to trust everyone, but most people here probably have townie feelings about at least one of that set, yes?
-
If Eevee's lover doesn't want to claim, would everyone else be happy with a claim order if it was agreed upon by both mcmc and TWM? And/or faust?
I don't think any of us has reason to trust everyone, but most people here probably have townie feelings about at least one of that set, yes?
Why not just sign up order?
-
Caught up but busy at work today so probably won't be able to post till later.
Off the cuff, I also felt like galz/faust could be partners wanting to do this because they were both players heavily in the "mafia is screwed" camp when twm and me claimed. As posts went on Faust appeared to be a bit townier. Though I think cuzz is a likely kill mafia wants to make, I repeatedly posted how I was not going to be lynching cuzz and they were aware he was town. I also think scum!faust is likely to take vig in order to shoot and have a claim that fits why he is shooting.
@TWM I never said you lied about being v/la I don't get why you are so angry at everything I say. From my perspective you have done nothing to prove you are town other than claim a power and not use it so understand I'm still trying to figure out what you have done and why so I can put a town narrative to it. What I was suggesting was when did you input your action of "not hiding". I thought that we lynched early so you could safely put the action as "hide behind me". Then you were v/la untill Monday afternoon. Robz posted the rule change during your v/la on be 27th and then opened the thread Monday at 5pm. I guess robz did extend the deadline and ask for confirmation of actions I just found the timing pretty close and the way you said it seemed like you always planned on not hiding for fear of a buss driver even before robz posted the rule change.
Basically are you saying you put hiding behind me, and then after the rule change decided the best bet was to not hide, or are you saying you always feared the rule change and put not hiding right away?
-
If Eevee's lover doesn't want to claim, would everyone else be happy with a claim order if it was agreed upon by both mcmc and TWM? And/or faust?
I don't think any of us has reason to trust everyone, but most people here probably have townie feelings about at least one of that set, yes?
Why not just sign up order?
Because we can be far more strategic
-
I dont thi k either galz or Faust are good lynches now.
Despite how badly I want to lynch them I totally agree. Lynching them without either more days or a mass claim is definitely not a good idea.
-
Can someone explain to me in 4 sentences or less why faust must resolve to town due to the reveals of today?
The only towny thing I've gotten was he did claim to shoot the guy he tunneled hard all game and now looks like he is willing to do something besides that.
Faust and Galzria both have roles that are not alignment-indicative in any way. Of the two I think galzria is townier, but no way am I going to support the lynch of a claimed PR in faust, especially one that can be so damaging to scum.
That being said, I really didn't like his shot last night (knowing that it was his shot and not a scum kill). It does make sense to some extent with the wagon we had on Cuzz, but then, I didn't agree with the wagon either
-
Right, so, everyone else is feeling pretty leery of faust as well... I can envision a faust delivered pep talk int he scum QT that got Galzria out of the dumps and the Robz ruling got ashersky back in the game.
I guess, the one thing I have trouble accepting is that for M100 we got a Galzria, ashersky, faust scum team. I'm more inclined to believe faust is an SK as that aligns with his claims.
The Galzria claim does seem relatively safe but still townish. It however, doesn't really jive with his hang dog attitude yesterday.
-
So the more I dwell on it the more I'm warming up to the idea of a massclaim
-
If Eevee's lover doesn't want to claim, would everyone else be happy with a claim order if it was agreed upon by both mcmc and TWM? And/or faust?
If Eevee's lover doesn't want to claim and thereby doesn't want to mass claim I would prefer to leave it at that.
-
@TWM I never said you lied about being v/la I don't get why you are so angry at everything I say. From my perspective you have done nothing to prove you are town other than claim a power and not use it so understand I'm still trying to figure out what you have done and why so I can put a town narrative to it. What I was suggesting was when did you input your action of "not hiding". I thought that we lynched early so you could safely put the action as "hide behind me". Then you were v/la untill Monday afternoon. Robz posted the rule change during your v/la on be 27th and then opened the thread Monday at 5pm. I guess robz did extend the deadline and ask for confirmation of actions I just found the timing pretty close and the way you said it seemed like you always planned on not hiding for fear of a buss driver even before robz posted the rule change.
I slightly misunderstood your post and felt that you were suspicious of my VLA. I still feel that you, and others, are being critical of me for things completely outside of my control.
Your plan was good and I was going to follow it, but once the rule change occurred it was not wise to follow a plan that was telegraphed to mafia that they could potentially disrupt, especially when it could be accomplished following days with ease.
So do not blame me for rule changes or for deadlines that were extended or for things completely outside of my control. This was your plan. If you had not come up with it I would have gone on VLA and submitted an early night action before leaving on VLA and everything would have been fine. But with your plan, my action was dependent upon you hammering. I had to know whether that happened or not.
Then I went on VLA, submitted to hide behind you and expected to come back to find Day 3 underway and everything be fine. I came back to a thread locked and a rule change. So I, understandably, changed my night action using this new information. That people are mad about this is just ridiculous. New information, means new decisions. So my night action changed and day began. Robz was kind enough to extend the deadline.
Basically are you saying you put hiding behind me, and then after the rule change decided the best bet was to not hide, or are you saying you always feared the rule change and put not hiding right away?
The first. Obviously. Why would I fear a rule change that I had no way of knowing about. I feared there were some unknown possibilities with your plan, specifically not getting the hammer every single night. That is still a concern.
I will post what I plan on doing in my next post to continue with your plan to the best of my abilities.
-
That clears things up, I reread your post and it did sound more like your changed your position after the rule change(which I think was a fine thing to do). Sorry if it seemed like I was questioning your vla, I am merely paranoid. I have to keep reminding myself we just have different reads and stuff and the chances you are mafia are extremely extremely slim.
Actually I don't know if this is bad to claim but did you get hider in the actually slot or in a different slot?
-
Condition 1:
1-shot Bus Driver does not claim and mcmc gets today's hammer.
1) hide behind mcmc
2) behind behind someone else (Y) that will be publicly stated in thread (town will help ID this person, but final decision is mine)
3) behind behind someone else (X) that will be publicly stated in thread (town will help ID this person, but final decision is mine)
If I live I won't state what I did and I'll do the same thing Night 4. Day 5 I will reveal what I did.
If I die and neither of mcmc/X/Y die, unfortunately we won't be able to know exactly what happened. Either 1) mcmc is mafia, 2) X or Y is mafia or 3) I was bus driven to hide behind mafia and died. I would suggest looking strongly at X or Y. I highly doubt mcmc is mafia at this point.
Condition 2:
1-shot Bus Driver claims or flips as scum and mcmc gets today's hammer.
1) hide behind mcmc
Condition 3:
mcmc doesn't get today's hammer in any scenario
1) Hide behind one of three players that will be publicly stated in thread.
-
Actually I don't know if this is bad to claim but did you get hider in the actually slot or in a different slot?
I'll hold off answering until we have a better idea of whether or not my answer would be harmful or not. I am OK to share it, but think it should fit into the story of mass claiming rather than me just sharing it right now.
-
Theory question for anyone that wants to answer it.
If you were mafia, would you have bus driven mcmc last night or would you have saved it for a later day?
-
I am realizing I made a mistake today when I said I didn't hide behind mcmc and should have instead stated something like "I may or may not have hidden behind mcmc last night and depending on what I did I will do something tonight and Night 4 that will be revealed Day 5"
Sorry for my error.
-
If Eevee's lover doesn't want to claim, would everyone else be happy with a claim order if it was agreed upon by both mcmc and TWM? And/or faust?
If Eevee's lover doesn't want to claim and thereby doesn't want to mass claim I would prefer to leave it at that.
Why? Eevee's lover doesn't have so much more information than the rest of us that they alone have the casting vote as to whether massclaim would be best for us here. They're effectively a VT, with only the benefit of probably having some of Eevee's reads recorded in a QT somewhere, which is additional info they can only share if alive and claimed.
While it's nice to be able to do one's own thing with the roles we each have, especially in a game like this where most PR-holders "won" their roles in a more involved way than normal, I do think that playing for the greater good of the team, and not trying to be a hero single-handed, is important. Having an IC to help mediate a full claim may well be the best thing for town at this point. The fact that the other lover gets ICd and then possibly (modulo protective roles and wifom) killed thereafter is sad for that player, but may help win us the game even if they're not confident enough with their reads and leadership to perform strongly in a traditional IC role.
-
Theory question for anyone that wants to answer it.
If you were mafia, would you have bus driven mcmc last night or would you have saved it for a later day?
With only 1-shot, it's in the scum team's best interest you use it with lots of info. And the very public mod ruling would absolutely require that a scum bus driver save their shot. That Robz post killed a lot of strategy space for scum.
-
Awaclus should lead the massclaim.
-
Another idea to throw out there: what if we do the claims in descending order of slot choice, i.e. starting with the player who picked last?
I was going to propose this as a good plan, but I think I may have argued myself out of it while composing this post.
My initial thinking had been that the longer scum wait to claim, in the hope of finding an innocent-looking un-claimed place in the order that doesn't imply they have a PR, the more they're going to have to take a risk because claiming one of the top slots will come with an expectation of holding a useful PR. I like the idea of ratcheting up the pressure on the scums and seeing who slips.
The reason this doesn't work so well is that those of us who did come low down in the picking order end up telegraphing which slots were already taken by the time the number got down to us, so those end up being safe spots for scum to claim, because they know somebody in the order above them took that slot. It also ends up meaning that inconsistencies only come out amongst the players with the highest picking priority.
OTOH, claiming starting with the top spots means that it's immediately obvious which slots are taken, so those become safe straight away, meaning that's an even worse ordering to use.
The best thing would maybe be for TWM and mcmc to each post a scum-to-town list, and go with some kind of synthesis of that.
-
I don't believe in suboptimal play of Galzria. something pings me here
I'm not really V/LA right now. Just super drunk. Just fayi. Birthday brewery hopping. Yay!
-
Hi! I'm still alive.
Calamitas looks like an SK shot? It's definitely more likely that there is one now. Or Werewolves I suppose.
There is something I may or may not want to talk about.
This was faust's first post yesterday. In it he's suggesting knowledge of night operations.
He's almost certainly not the SK as he's setting himself up to claim Vig here. Knowing that there was no IC means he would be counterclaimed - an instant losing strategy for SK.
So he's likely the Vig. From here it's simply a question of alignment. Sure, he could be scum - but to my mind:
A) I don't believe scum!Vig opens d2 by preparing to claim, period. But especially If he DID shoot but got no result from it. He now knows there's a blocker/doctor/something - why aim to bring it to town's attention when he can just wait for n2 to tell his buddies?
B) I really don't think scum!Vig does it in their first post following a teammates death the night before. Even if he had been planning on it the night before I think he would at least take some time to reevaluate the situation.
Essentially, to believe Faust to be scum would mean partners with Calamitas. I don't believe the above post suggests that to be likely.
Also, as per my provisional before on Faust shooting last night: vote: ashersky. Occam's Razor.
-
Theory question for anyone that wants to answer it.
If you were mafia, would you have bus driven mcmc last night or would you have saved it for a later day?
With only 1-shot, it's in the scum team's best interest you use it with lots of info. And the very public mod ruling would absolutely require that a scum bus driver save their shot. That Robz post killed a lot of strategy space for scum.
Scum would know this a lot better than town would. Vote: ashersky I think that's L-3.
I'm really busy again over the next couple of days.
PPE L-2
-
Umm I mean I'm not crazy against lynching ash.
-
request vote count
-
Awaclus should lead the massclaim.
This is ridiculous. Awaclus is the most likely townie.
-
Vote Count 3.2
iguanaiguana (1): RoadRunner7671
Galzria (1): faust
ashersky (4): O, 2.71828......, Galzria, sudgy
Not Voting (11): ashersky, Dylan32, SpaceAnemone, Awaclus, pingpongsam, JaketheBaseballGod22, iguanaiguana, Jimmmmm, mcmcsalot, The_Wine_Merchant, LaLight
With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch. Day 3 ends on Monday, June 5th, at 5:00 PM Forum Time.
-
Theory question for anyone that wants to answer it.
If you were mafia, would you have bus driven mcmc last night or would you have saved it for a later day?
With only 1-shot, it's in the scum team's best interest you use it with lots of info. And the very public mod ruling would absolutely require that a scum bus driver save their shot. That Robz post killed a lot of strategy space for scum.
Scum would know this a lot better than town would. Vote: ashersky I think that's L-3.
I'm really busy again over the next couple of days.
PPE L-2
You should improve your counting skills ;)
-
Ok yeah. L-5 a lot different than L-2
-
Awaclus should lead the massclaim.
This is ridiculous. Awaclus is the most likely townie.
To be fair, I interpreted that to mean that Awaclus should set the claim order for us to follow.
-
This has been a weird game for me in that I wanted to lynch Andrew because I couldn't shake the idea he was scum, then I was relieved that we flipped cuzz because faust wouldn't let that go, and now I'm thinking that until we get an O flip we don't really have Awaclus playing.
-
Awaclus should lead the massclaim.
This is ridiculous. Awaclus is the most likely townie.
To be fair, I interpreted that to mean that Awaclus should set the claim order for us to follow.
Yeah, that's how I read it. It's not a ridiculous suggestion that way, though I'm confused about why ash would say so without backing it up with any kind of reasoning.
-
Scum would know this a lot better than town would. Vote: ashersky I think that's L-3.
I'm really busy again over the next couple of days.
PPE L-2
I think at this point, the main people who want to run up a speedy wagon are the scums desperate to get to nighttime again so they can drop another townie and work out how to survive the massclaim. For everyone else, there will be more information to vote on if we go through with the claiming than there is available now.
-
Should I post my order already or are we waiting on something?
-
Scum would know this a lot better than town would. Vote: ashersky I think that's L-3.
I'm really busy again over the next couple of days.
PPE L-2
I think at this point, the main people who want to run up a speedy wagon are the scums desperate to get to nighttime again so they can drop another townie and work out how to survive the massclaim. For everyone else, there will be more information to vote on if we go through with the claiming than there is available now.
That's a thought. You think scum!sudgy even went so far as to make a fake L-n claim in hopes of getting mcmc to vote ahead of a hammer?
-
Should I post my order already or are we waiting on something?
I can do it for you...
O
O
O
O
O
O
O
O
O
O
anybody else
-
Scum would know this a lot better than town would. Vote: ashersky I think that's L-3.
I'm really busy again over the next couple of days.
PPE L-2
I think at this point, the main people who want to run up a speedy wagon are the scums desperate to get to nighttime again so they can drop another townie and work out how to survive the massclaim. For everyone else, there will be more information to vote on if we go through with the claiming than there is available now.
I don't want to end the day. I just wanted to vote him. And sorry about the counting, I just quickly saw all vote: ashersky's in the day.
-
Scum would know this a lot better than town would. Vote: ashersky I think that's L-3.
I'm really busy again over the next couple of days.
PPE L-2
I think at this point, the main people who want to run up a speedy wagon are the scums desperate to get to nighttime again so they can drop another townie and work out how to survive the massclaim. For everyone else, there will be more information to vote on if we go through with the claiming than there is available now.
That's a thought. You think scum!sudgy even went so far as to make a fake L-n claim in hopes of getting mcmc to vote ahead of a hammer?
That seems a little far-fetched to me. I mean, I understand maybe a fake "L-X" claim to try to trip someone up later on, but the day has barely started. Seems like paranoia to me, whether scum or town, meh. I am not sure
-
Space seems super scummy but they do make a good point about massclaiming before night so scum can't discuss what to do together. I mean presumably they already have discussed it but one more night does give them more time.
-
Though I do keep going back to the fact that scum could have definitely chosen pro-town powers (especially ones like vig and jailkeeper) that look towny when claimed, and we may be leading town to just out all their powers.
-
Should I post my order already or are we waiting on something?
I can do it for you...
O
O
O
O
O
O
O
O
O
O
anybody else
Really comeon. No one is going to agree on a setup order which is why I think we just do the signup order. It's unbiased, doesn't allow anyone to get advantages when fake claiming like SA brought up when claiming by slot. If anyone has any reasons why not then please voice them.
-
Really comeon. No one is going to agree on a setup order which is why I think we just do the signup order. It's unbiased, doesn't allow anyone to get advantages when fake claiming like SA brought up when claiming by slot. If anyone has any reasons why not then please voice them.
t. the guy who's third last in the setup order.
-
Really comeon. No one is going to agree on a setup order which is why I think we just do the signup order. It's unbiased, doesn't allow anyone to get advantages when fake claiming like SA brought up when claiming by slot. If anyone has any reasons why not then please voice them.
t. the guy who's third last in the setup order.
We can go in reverse order if you want I don't care. And why does where I signed up matter?
-
Really comeon. No one is going to agree on a setup order which is why I think we just do the signup order. It's unbiased, doesn't allow anyone to get advantages when fake claiming like SA brought up when claiming by slot. If anyone has any reasons why not then please voice them.
Yes, Really. We do it all the time. Generally, once there's enough agreement to massclaim we generally agree on who the towniest person is to set order with some feedback on what order does make some good sense. Then, once it is published, failure to comply is viewed as a flat scum tell and only in some extreme cases does one refuse to claim regardless of circumstance.
-
Really comeon. No one is going to agree on a setup order which is why I think we just do the signup order. It's unbiased, doesn't allow anyone to get advantages when fake claiming like SA brought up when claiming by slot. If anyone has any reasons why not then please voice them.
Yes, Really. We do it all the time. Generally, once there's enough agreement to massclaim we generally agree on who the towniest person is to set order with some feedback on what order does make some good sense. Then, once it is published, failure to comply is viewed as a flat scum tell and only in some extreme cases does one refuse to claim regardless of circumstance.
Yes and with 17 people its gonna be hard. Some people said awaclus but he will only do O. Others said a collaboration between Mcmc and Twm but their not agreeing on much these days. So who would you suggest?
-
Really comeon. No one is going to agree on a setup order which is why I think we just do the signup order. It's unbiased, doesn't allow anyone to get advantages when fake claiming like SA brought up when claiming by slot. If anyone has any reasons why not then please voice them.
Yes, Really. We do it all the time. Generally, once there's enough agreement to massclaim we generally agree on who the towniest person is to set order with some feedback on what order does make some good sense. Then, once it is published, failure to comply is viewed as a flat scum tell and only in some extreme cases does one refuse to claim regardless of circumstance.
Yes and with 17 people its gonna be hard. Some people said awaclus but he will only do O. Others said a collaboration between Mcmc and Twm but their not agreeing on much these days. So who would you suggest?
I think Awaclus is a solid answer tot he question. I was just ribbing him.
-
Really comeon. No one is going to agree on a setup order which is why I think we just do the signup order. It's unbiased, doesn't allow anyone to get advantages when fake claiming like SA brought up when claiming by slot. If anyone has any reasons why not then please voice them.
Yes, Really. We do it all the time. Generally, once there's enough agreement to massclaim we generally agree on who the towniest person is to set order with some feedback on what order does make some good sense. Then, once it is published, failure to comply is viewed as a flat scum tell and only in some extreme cases does one refuse to claim regardless of circumstance.
Yes and with 17 people its gonna be hard. Some people said awaclus but he will only do O. Others said a collaboration between Mcmc and Twm but their not agreeing on much these days. So who would you suggest?
I think Awaclus is a solid answer tot he question. I was just ribbing him.
Have you seen his order?
-
Really comeon. No one is going to agree on a setup order which is why I think we just do the signup order. It's unbiased, doesn't allow anyone to get advantages when fake claiming like SA brought up when claiming by slot. If anyone has any reasons why not then please voice them.
Yes, Really. We do it all the time. Generally, once there's enough agreement to massclaim we generally agree on who the towniest person is to set order with some feedback on what order does make some good sense. Then, once it is published, failure to comply is viewed as a flat scum tell and only in some extreme cases does one refuse to claim regardless of circumstance.
Yes and with 17 people its gonna be hard. Some people said awaclus but he will only do O. Others said a collaboration between Mcmc and Twm but their not agreeing on much these days. So who would you suggest?
I think Awaclus is a solid answer tot he question. I was just ribbing him.
Have you seen his order?
Cause i'm pretty sure it will be exactly what you posted.
-
yeah, I am fine with Awaclus
-
yeah, I am fine with Awaclus
I'm fine with him if he'll actually post a semi decent one that's not what you posted. I still think the signup order is better though.
-
yeah, I am fine with Awaclus
I'm fine with him if he'll actually post a semi decent one that's not what you posted. I still think the signup order is better though.
I meant what PPS posted not LL.
-
Hmm, jake being very jake like, not sure what to make of it. Probably town.
-
Hmm, jake being very jake like, not sure what to make of it. Probably town.
Jake like?
-
Awaclus should lead the massclaim.
This is ridiculous. Awaclus is the most likely townie.
Hence why he should lead.
-
Galz still fully ignoring the fact that if he's JK, he doctored me. If he's looking for a phantom kill...
And this has been said right? That the N1 thing was a setup in that there is no missing kill and Faust/team has just killed each night?
Two kills + two kills. Make up a missing one for N1 to use a "missing" one to frame someone D3.
I can literally come up with multiple scenarios for this supposed thing for which there is no actual evidence.
I do like how every single claim so far this game has been mostly just believed. 100+ games and still no immediate D1 mass claim. We've got to do it eventually (just not in The Flash RMM, coming soon!).
-
Theory question for anyone that wants to answer it.
If you were mafia, would you have bus driven mcmc last night or would you have saved it for a later day?
With only 1-shot, it's in the scum team's best interest you use it with lots of info. And the very public mod ruling would absolutely require that a scum bus driver save their shot. That Robz post killed a lot of strategy space for scum.
Scum would know this a lot better than town would. Vote: ashersky I think that's L-3.
I'm really busy again over the next couple of days.
PPE L-2
Easily the weakest note I have ever seen.
Player A: "Hey, what would scum go in this situation?"
Player B: "The clear and obvious thing is X."
Player S: "Vote player B OMG he knows what scum would do he's scum!!!"
Better arrest all the good cops in the world for figuring out what obvious moves criminals will make.
-
I am not too concerned with a mass claim and personally have zero desire to lead it.
What I don't want is to get it to the point that any focus on actual scum hunting is lost. But claiming could potentially help with that. So if we are going to do it, do it and keep scum hunting at the same time.
-
sudgy still looks like a good vote.
-
Honestly. I am more inclined to vote for ash for his posts yesterday than for the JK stuff. I do think that interaction is worth remembering and paying attention to as the game goes forward and with other actions. But the two combined are certainly worth of votes.
-
I am OKAY with the mass claim.
I had one thought about it.
Maybe VTs should volunteer to claim all their info first? As in, before we go ahead with a full on mass claim proper, maybe we should do a round where all players claim VT with their draft order and what they bid for, or just claim "Not VT." Then, afterward, we do a full run of all PRs.
That way any scum who might want to claim VT because of another claim that would conflict with their fakeclaim are forced to pick claiming VT or PR with as little info as possible given to them by other people's claims.
-
I like "not VT" then circle around and do the draft order and role not obtained second for them.
-
But maybe that is too complicated and would just stall the game out for little benefit.
-
I am OKAY with the mass claim.
I had one thought about it.
Maybe VTs should volunteer to claim all their info first? As in, before we go ahead with a full on mass claim proper, maybe we should do a round where all players claim VT with their draft order and what they bid for, or just claim "Not VT." Then, afterward, we do a full run of all PRs.
That way any scum who might want to claim VT because of another claim that would conflict with their fakeclaim are forced to pick claiming VT or PR with as little info as possible given to them by other people's claims.
I like this
-
I am not too concerned with a mass claim and personally have zero desire to lead it.
What I don't want is to get it to the point that any focus on actual scum hunting is lost. But claiming could potentially help with that. So if we are going to do it, do it and keep scum hunting at the same time.
That makes sense. The main reason it interests me is that it gets a lot more logic-ing and likelihoods and stuff into the game (things I can get my teeth into), but I think it should turn the heat up on scum if they haven't prepared really thoroughly for it, and that heat should help the people who're good at more gut-readsy sorts of scum-hunting (not me!).
You don't have to lead, but as one of the more universally-held townreads, it would be very helpful if you could provide a scum-to-town ordering list so that the people who are interested i pushing it along have as close to an IC-generated ordering as possible. Same for mcmc.
PPE 2
Hmm.. interesting. I think iguana's method has merit as long as we can push the overall exercise along quickly enough to get through two iterations of it. However, does it give the non-VTs too much info if they know drat order and slots of all the VTs? Maybe claim draft order and VT/non-VT in the first round, and then slot and role in the second?
PPE 2 more...
-
Maybe claim draft order and VT/non-VT in the first round, and then slot and role in the second?
This seems like the best way to go.
-
Maybe claim draft order and VT/non-VT in the first round, and then slot and role in the second?
This seems like the best way to go.
I approve of this.
-
Maybe claim draft order and VT/non-VT in the first round, and then slot and role in the second?
This seems like the best way to go.
I approve of this.
As do I. Who gets to make the order?
-
Awaclus should just propose an order now.
-
Theory question for anyone that wants to answer it.
If you were mafia, would you have bus driven mcmc last night or would you have saved it for a later day?
With only 1-shot, it's in the scum team's best interest you use it with lots of info. And the very public mod ruling would absolutely require that a scum bus driver save their shot. That Robz post killed a lot of strategy space for scum.
Scum would know this a lot better than town would. Vote: ashersky I think that's L-3.
I'm really busy again over the next couple of days.
PPE L-2
Easily the weakest note I have ever seen.
Player A: "Hey, what would scum go in this situation?"
Player B: "The clear and obvious thing is X."
Player S: "Vote player B OMG he knows what scum would do he's scum!!!"
Better arrest all the good cops in the world for figuring out what obvious moves criminals will make.
It's combined with the 17 other things you've done. I just thought that was a fun way to vote.
Anyway, I support this massclaim.
-
Is it established that I'm choosing the order? I don't want to announce the order and then have people debate whether or not we should be using it after the fact.
-
I have no problem claiming first so I have no problem with Awaclus's order even if it's going to be atrocious.
-
Is it established that I'm choosing the order? I don't want to announce the order and then have people debate whether or not we should be using it after the fact.
You have my blessing. Not that you needed it. So I say go for it and anyone that disagrees can take it up with me after the fact.
-
Quick question to remind myself as I am looking at something else but want to follow-up:
How did faust respond to O claiming to be 2-shot vig? Although I guess it was a joke. So maybe any reaction, or lack thereof would be tainted?
-
It was pretty obviously a joke but I'd argue the 2 shot big is more like
ly to respond than others
-
This is the order:
JaketheBaseballGod22
sudgy
pingpongsam
SpaceAnemone
Jimmmmm
Dylan32
2.71828......
ashersky
RoadRunner7671
iguanaiguana
LaLight
O
Awaclus
If this list contains people who already claimed and I missed it, I would like them to claim again.
-
Also, don't read too much into it. A lot of the order was pretty arbitrary and might or might not have been largely representative of my reads.
-
I'm fine with the ordering, I didn't really care we just needed one. I just thought it was funny you put O near the bottom and me near the top. O is funny because you generally want your scum reads first so they make the least informed claim. Me because not only have I claimed but I have actually, publicly used my role repeatedly and had discussion surrounding it even specifying the means of obtaining it... but I have no qualms posting it again when time comes.
-
I'm fine with the ordering, I didn't really care we just needed one. I just thought it was funny you put O near the bottom and me near the top. O is funny because you generally want your scum reads first so they make the least informed claim. Me because not only have I claimed but I have actually, publicly used my role repeatedly and had discussion surrounding it even specifying the means of obtaining it... but I have no qualms posting it again when time comes.
It's because Awaclus doesn't think I'm scum, he just wants me lynched. Putting me last gives me the least credibility.
-
I'm fine with the ordering, I didn't really care we just needed one. I just thought it was funny you put O near the bottom and me near the top. O is funny because you generally want your scum reads first so they make the least informed claim. Me because not only have I claimed but I have actually, publicly used my role repeatedly and had discussion surrounding it even specifying the means of obtaining it... but I have no qualms posting it again when time comes.
It's because Awaclus doesn't think I'm scum, he just wants me lynched. Putting me last gives me the least credibility.
I can sympathize to an extent. I did it with Andrew, faust did it with cuzz. The thing is we also played the game in the meantime.
-
Alright, Jake is up first.
-
Again back to why I find 2.7 scummy.
1. He has tried to create zero accountability for his votes.
The biggest thing we need to worry about is getting a few good wagons going. That being said, vote: LaLight
Also vote: galzria because I can!
Probably doesn't need to be said but just in case people are confused alerting people to your draft position is dangerous because scum wants to take out people high in the draft.
Ppe 1: well galz is clearly scum.
"Helpful" information that doesn't actually help anything.
Vote: mcmc
because non-RVS votes are always better than RVS votes
I think I will join the
vote: TWM
wagon. It seems like a fun place to be.
frankly the TWM wagon is incomprehensible to me.
Ugh at work it's hard to formulate the proper case but I understand things have moved quickly. I'll post it in a bit. Or if galz wants to just go through my last few posts and see what I said about twm. My case has nothing to do with going back and forth about massclaiming.
me, I just joined because wagons are fun. The first real wagon! 6 players and counting!
quote significantly shortened
I think at the moment I'm definitely happy with my vote on Reggie. The weird interaction between him and Gkreig early, followed by his tunneling of TWM with no rhyme or reason, plus the "I had previously said I would be basing my reads off of something superficial" - which to my knowledge was never said in thread are enough for me at this time.
To make reads easier, from this point until an undisclosed later time, I will automatically be scumreading anyone who votes gkrieg and townreading anyone who votes pps.
That doesn't do anything to lessen j reggies strange fascination for gkrieg this game. Crafting arbitrary means to establish reads also relieves you of actually having to create reads that you can be held accountable for later.
My experiment with the TWM wagon had some results, probably haven't let it sit long enough to really get better results, but I will join galzria with
Vote: J Reggie
When I voted for TWM I had no intentions of lynching him. Just pushing the wagon a bit further and seeing what would happen. Looking back I did a pretty awful job of it since I only stayed on TWM for like 3 hours. It felt like a long time. And I saw the j Reggie case I was much more interested in pursuing. That being said, my read on TWM got steadily more and more scummy, I just didn't want to leave Reggie until he explained his plan.
Had I posted after the plan came out I think I very well may have abandoned j Reggie for TWM, making me one of the "scummy" (still not quite sure why) wagon jumpers. But I honestly don't know how that would have played out.
That being said, there was nothing special to reply to, I just thought I would give my side of the story. I do like what galzria is doing here, totally does not make him town, but might help him into a would not lynch category for today
He fits into the "hot water" scum likely to join my wagon thing that mcmc mentions here. And also falls into it a bit Day 2.
B) TWM was actually in pretty hot water, I now know two townies(myself/jreggie) who were advocating for his lynch. If Twm is town that's a great wagon for scum to join. But what happens is galzria storms the thread an eloquently convinces a huuuge number of players to jump over to jreggie (yourself included) decimating the twm wagon at the same time since jreggie was a big proponent of it.
Here is where I looked into it.
OK.
J Reggie starts the voting on me.
Ash joins - no explanation
mcmc joins - no explanation
Dylan joins - no explanation
sudgy joins. He is the first to provide something of an explanation, FYI. faust has already shown how the reasoning looks fabricated.
2.7 joins - fun place to join
mcmc comes back on
sudgy comes back on voting for me for unvoting J Reggie, which was clearly me being factitious about Jimmmm's request to not end the day early.
And then that is it for Day 1. sudgy votes me again for supposed Calamatis interactions. Again, he didn't actually reread Calam or at least didn't post those, he just found ones that pertained to me and only analyzed those.
vote: sudgy I think both of his votes on me today are reflective of scum falling for me as bait lynch with fabricated or forced reasons.
And I could also look at Dylan/2.7. Ash is an enigma and I see mcmc as town.
Day 3 I didn't like his iguana vote and his being solidly against mass claiming. But that is probably confirmation bias talking at that point, so should be taken with that in mind.
That is what I got substance wise. Add in what I call a gut read, and I have backed off these sorts of reads in the past to my detriment. So take that for what it actually is, some substance and some gut, but I am sticking with vote: 2.7 for now.
-
This is the order:
JaketheBaseballGod22
sudgy
pingpongsam
SpaceAnemone
Jimmmmm
Dylan32
2.71828......
ashersky
RoadRunner7671
iguanaiguana
LaLight
O
Awaclus
If this list contains people who already claimed and I missed it, I would like them to claim again.
Well lol of course. So real quick before I claim what exactly are we claiming right now just too be clear.
-
Maybe claim draft order and VT/non-VT in the first round, and then slot and role in the second?
This seems like the best way to go.
I approve of this.
Looks like draft order and VT/non-VT
-
faust didn't directly respond to O's joke. But pretty shortly after he put both O and RR (who was the provocateur/prophet of the joke) as town.
After going through this, amended list:
RR
LaLight
TWM
iguana
O
Just about 100 posts before he had the list as just:
People off today's lynch menu so far:
TWM
LaLight
RR
iguana
O had a largish number of posts in between the two lists culminating in his joke. Some of which, were actually talking about setup theory. faust do you remember what made you add O to your town list? Was it the joke or something else?
-
10 minutes later.
-
10 minutes later.
Relax. Man i really wanted to go later.( I got some good stuff to claim) Ok I'm calling two things right now. 1. I will most likely get counterclaimed by the end of this claiming. 2. I will most likely get lynched or Nked in the next two days. Ok now to claiming: I got the #17 draft position, and I am Not a VT
-
10 minutes later.
Relax. Man i really wanted to go later.( I got some good stuff to claim)
I thought you didn't care.
Really comeon. No one is going to agree on a setup order which is why I think we just do the signup order. It's unbiased, doesn't allow anyone to get advantages when fake claiming like SA brought up when claiming by slot. If anyone has any reasons why not then please voice them.
t. the guy who's third last in the setup order.
We can go in reverse order if you want I don't care. And why does where I signed up matter?
-
Sudgy's up.
-
10 minutes later.
Relax. Man i really wanted to go later.( I got some good stuff to claim)
I thought you didn't care.
Really comeon. No one is going to agree on a setup order which is why I think we just do the signup order. It's unbiased, doesn't allow anyone to get advantages when fake claiming like SA brought up when claiming by slot. If anyone has any reasons why not then please voice them.
t. the guy who's third last in the setup order.
We can go in reverse order if you want I don't care. And why does where I signed up matter?
I don't care I'm just saying it would be nicer to go later but I really don't care.
-
Well you were using it as a reason for me to relax. But you don't care. Like, you keep saying that, so you must really mean it. You really don't care. At all. I totally believe you. About not caring that is. You don't.
-
Again back to why I find 2.7 scummy.
1. He has tried to create zero accountability for his votes.
In what way? What kind of accountability are you looking for?
He fits into the "hot water" scum likely to join my wagon thing that mcmc mentions here. And also falls into it a bit Day 2.
B) TWM was actually in pretty hot water, I now know two townies(myself/jreggie) who were advocating for his lynch. If Twm is town that's a great wagon for scum to join. But what happens is galzria storms the thread an eloquently convinces a huuuge number of players to jump over to jreggie (yourself included) decimating the twm wagon at the same time since jreggie was a big proponent of it.
I left mcmc's quote in for context on the "hot water scum" comment. This is the "me vs the world" attitude that tipped me off to your being town in M98. Your "nah nah nah Andrew was town I was right" post to start the day today. The overwhelming sense of "no matter what I do I won't be lynched because I am an IC" attitude. In M98 that want true, and you got lynched for it (with me defending you the whole way). Here, you actually are an "IC". I totally believe you are town at this point. I am totally not questioning your hider claim.
But the whole idea that every scum is out to get you is just not true. Town lynches town all the time.
PPEs because phone posting is slow
-
I don't think every scum is out to get me. But I do think I have a pull towards scum that makes me more appealing. And I think it is worth looking at those who might have hopped onto a wagon that looked promising and had "merit." For example, how every scum pretended to scum read me in M98.
You and a couple of others (sudgy) fit that description for the Day 1 wagon. This isn't the pure OMGUS that you are trying to spin it as.
And I am not necessarily looking for accountability. But seriously, almost all of your Day 1 wagons were "wagons are fun" or "I am just voting to build a wagon" sort of votes. Those lack accountability as they are easy to back off of with ease.
-
Well you were using it as a reason for me to relax. But you don't care. Like, you keep saying that, so you must really mean it. You really don't care. At all. I totally believe you. About not caring that is. You don't.
All i said was relax, I never used it as a reason for you too but I don't feel like getting into a fight with you so whateves.
-
I don't think every scum is out to get me. But I do think I have a pull towards scum that makes me more appealing. And I think it is worth looking at those who might have hopped onto a wagon that looked promising and had "merit." For example, how every scum pretended to scum read me in M98.
You and a couple of others (sudgy) fit that description for the Day 1 wagon. This isn't the pure OMGUS that you are trying to spin it as.
And I am not necessarily looking for accountability. But seriously, almost all of your Day 1 wagons were "wagons are fun" or "I am just voting to build a wagon" sort of votes. Those lack accountability as they are easy to back off of with ease.
The "wagons are fun" and "I am just voting to build up a wagon" both refer to the same vote: the one on you. I made a post once a while back that I could probably find if I wasn't lazy about types of votes and what they are used for. Not all votes are equal.
I voted LaLight for RVS
I voted mcmc because I thought he was scum
I voted you because I wanted reactions to a wagon
I voted J Reggie because I thought he was scum
There you go for accountability. I only voted 4 times, 3 serious, 2 on people I thought were scum. Reads evolve, after J Reggie flipped I was pretty sure he was town. My post saying that I might have switched off J Reggie had I been able to post before he was lynched can be portrayed as my trying to avoid accountability, but all you have to do is go to my post where I say "I won't switch off a person until they have claimed and they stated they won't claim unless L-1" if you want to find your accountability.
-
I'm a VT. I got draft #7 and got too cocky and went for Universal Backup (because it sounded fun and could be possibly be useful).
-
Cool. As a reminder, don't claim your role or what you bid for until round two.
PPS has already claimed Restless Sheeper but I guess we don't know his draft order. I'd actually recommend that he doesn't claim that until round two, because I can't see how that possibly helps us.
So if we can agree to skip PPS for now, Spaceanemone is next.
-
I still don't really like the mass claim. I was thinking about it while I was at work, but it kind of just happened anyway.
Here are some of my thoughts:
Scum already knows what PRs town has (possibly). They at least know which ones they have and which ones they bid at but didn't get. They also have For balance purposes, all Not-Town aligned players will be told exactly which PRs were randomly included in these slots. They will not be told which PRs, if any, were chosen.
Here is what scum gets: The entire breakdown of VT/PRs to decide who to kill from.
Here is what we already have: 5 claimed PRs and 12 unclaimed (well, not totally anymore) others.
What does town get: A lynchpool of VTs to lynch out of (probably still around 8 or so, I don't know), oh, and not to mention the fakeclaims that scum have....and the real claims that scum have if they took town roles. Oh, and we also get the ability to "coordinate" better at night.
I just really don't think the juice is worth the squeeze.
That being said, I will claim when it is my turn. Not going to go completely rogue here.
-
For my role I like having VTs claimed.
-
As far as increased coordination? All the roles that need to coordinate have already claimed. I don't really care who our possible doctor or role cop or tracker or whatever is - I trust them to do their job. Scum does care who they are and slightly decreasing the lynchpool does not help our PRs with 17 people still alive. With 13 or 11 or definitely 8 or so yes. But with 17? Too early in my opinion.
-
For reasons. I'll explain later, probably.
-
Cool. As a reminder, don't claim your role or what you bid for until round two.
PPS has already claimed Restless Sheeper but I guess we don't know his draft order. I'd actually recommend that he doesn't claim that until round two, because I can't see how that possibly helps us.
So if we can agree to skip PPS for now, Spaceanemone is next.
I think Vts can claim what they went after now because if I have this right (feel free to correct me if not) but Vts are not participating in round 2 so they mine as well claim what position they bid for now.
-
Cool. As a reminder, don't claim your role or what you bid for until round two.
PPS has already claimed Restless Sheeper but I guess we don't know his draft order. I'd actually recommend that he doesn't claim that until round two, because I can't see how that possibly helps us.
So if we can agree to skip PPS for now, Spaceanemone is next.
I think Vts can claim what they went after now because if I have this right (feel free to correct me if not) but Vts are not participating in round 2 so they mine as well claim what position they bid for now.
No, no. Give iguana his town points for making sure we follow the mass claim correctly. scum!iguana needs them.
-
Don't let e confuse you by acting like he's not my scum partner, it's a two round massclaim and VTs claim what they bid for in round two.
-
Don't let e confuse you by acting like he's not my scum partner, it's a two round massclaim and VTs claim what they bid for in round two.
Haha. Love it. But really. I think I will go back to vote: iguana at least until after this tragedy of a mass claim is done
-
O had a largish number of posts in between the two lists culminating in his joke. Some of which, were actually talking about setup theory. faust do you remember what made you add O to your town list? Was it the joke or something else?
The joke.
-
Quick question to remind myself as I am looking at something else but want to follow-up:
How did faust respond to O claiming to be 2-shot vig? Although I guess it was a joke. So maybe any reaction, or lack thereof would be tainted?
This was supposed to be a breadcrumb for my role:
pps is too normal.
pretty meaningless isnt it
Ultimately we have to let go of the illusion that the things we say ever really mean anything.
But you would know about that.
-
is this where i counterclaim vig by saying I was serious all along?
@ TWM I made a town impression on seemingly a lot of people d1, including now-confirmed townies. I'm not seeing much of a case in Faust's putting me on the list.
-
I'm fine with the ordering, I didn't really care we just needed one. I just thought it was funny you put O near the bottom and me near the top. O is funny because you generally want your scum reads first so they make the least informed claim. Me because not only have I claimed but I have actually, publicly used my role repeatedly and had discussion surrounding it even specifying the means of obtaining it... but I have no qualms posting it again when time comes.
Oh, right, I remember your role now.
I put O near the bottom because I already know he's scum, so there's no point in having him mess up his fakeclaim. I'd rather have his partners make the least informed claim first.
-
Morning all!
I had draft position #18, and I'm a VT.
-
Cool. As a reminder, don't claim your role or what you bid for until round two.
PPS has already claimed Restless Sheeper but I guess we don't know his draft order. I'd actually recommend that he doesn't claim that until round two, because I can't see how that possibly helps us.
So if we can agree to skip PPS for now, Spaceanemone is next.
I think Vts can claim what they went after now because if I have this right (feel free to correct me if not) but Vts are not participating in round 2 so they mine as well claim what position they bid for now.
No, VTs still need to withhold the info about what slot they went for so that scums in the second round can still get tripped up by claiming inconsistent things. The point of doing the massclaim this way is not to out the PRs (that's kind of a side-effect, though), it's to out the scums who have to try to hide what they bid for, or the roles they now have.
-
I'm fine with the ordering, I didn't really care we just needed one. I just thought it was funny you put O near the bottom and me near the top. O is funny because you generally want your scum reads first so they make the least informed claim. Me because not only have I claimed but I have actually, publicly used my role repeatedly and had discussion surrounding it even specifying the means of obtaining it... but I have no qualms posting it again when time comes.
Oh, right, I remember your role now.
I put O near the bottom because I already know he's scum, so there's no point in having him mess up his fakeclaim. I'd rather have his partners make the least informed claim first.
Sorry if I jumped the gun claiming there. I assume if you're happy with PPS's role claim, it's safe just to let him claim his draft order position along with mcmc/TWM at the end of everything?
-
Sorry if I jumped the gun claiming there. I assume if you're happy with PPS's role claim, it's safe just to let him claim his draft order position along with mcmc/TWM at the end of everything?
Yeah, that's fine.
-
I have a few pages to catch up on (including all this claiming business. Will do tomorrow.
-
)
-
I have a few pages to catch up on (including all this claiming business. Will do tomorrow.
I would prefer if you you would not delay this any more than necessary. Until such time, Vote: Jimmmmm
-
Hey @Jimmmmm, you're next in the claiming order! We're each claiming our place in the draft position and either VT or non-VT.
It is definitely a very anti-town move from you to hold this up and force a rush at the end of the day.
-
is this where i counterclaim vig by saying I was serious all along?
@ TWM I made a town impression on seemingly a lot of people d1, including now-confirmed townies. I'm not seeing much of a case in Faust's putting me on the list.
I agree. It wasn't a case. It was a probe.
-
Vote: Jimmmmm
-
Vote Count 3.3
iguanaiguana (2): RoadRunner7671, 2.71828......
ashersky (3): O, Galzria, sudgy
2.71828...... (1): The_Wine_Merchant
Jimmmmm (2): faust, pingpongsam
Not Voting (9): ashersky, Dylan32, SpaceAnemone, Awaclus, JaketheBaseballGod22, iguanaiguana, Jimmmmm, mcmcsalot, LaLight
With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch. Day 3 ends on Monday, June 5th, at 5:00 PM Forum Time.
-
vote: Jimmmmm
-
Vote: Jimmmmm
-
Vote: Jimmmmmmmm
-
This is a terrible wagon
-
This is a terrible wagon
I agree. What is the purpose? He obviously didn't know it was his turn to claim when he left and he won't see the votes until after he realizes it is his turn to claim. It is lame because it holds up the process, but there is nothing stopping everyone else from contributing on other fronts.
FOS to everyone willing to vote for Jimmmm, but not to do anything else.
-
This is a terrible wagon
I agree. What is the purpose? He obviously didn't know it was his turn to claim when he left and he won't see the votes until after he realizes it is his turn to claim. It is lame because it holds up the process, but there is nothing stopping everyone else from contributing on other fronts.
FOS to everyone willing to vote for Jimmmm, but not to do anything else.
I would have liked to have this resolved before I go VLA. Jimmmm's move basically makes sure that doesn't happen. So I'm mostly mad. But Jimmmmm is definitely a decently good lynch.
-
This is a terrible wagon
I agree. What is the purpose? He obviously didn't know it was his turn to claim when he left and he won't see the votes until after he realizes it is his turn to claim. It is lame because it holds up the process, but there is nothing stopping everyone else from contributing on other fronts.
FOS to everyone willing to vote for Jimmmm, but not to do anything else.
I would have liked to have this resolved before I go VLA. Jimmmm's move basically makes sure that doesn't happen. So I'm mostly mad. But Jimmmmm is definitely a decently good lynch.
Being mad or frustrated is fine. But if you want me to vote for Jimmmm, there has to be better reasons than he wasn't fully caught up during claiming time.
-
But I don't want you to vote for Jimmmmm...
-
I think Jimmmmm stands a decent chance of being scum. the only counterargument that could be made is that as scum he probably would have been more active. But otherwise he's been lurky, unhelpful, and has emphatically delayed the game at key points. At this specific point the delay could easily be a scum tactic.
-
That said, I don't think we outright need to end the day right now and lynch Jimmmmm, that's definitely too hasty.
-
Unvote
-
For me personally Jimmmmm falls under the category of people who are really lurky and relatively scummy in this game along with Sudgy, Space, Dylan, Jake and maybe someone else. ANy of them is a good lynch, but of course I don't want to lynch Jimmmmm hastely before he claims.
-
Yeah, I am not saying jimmmmm is a terrible lynch, I just think that the wagon itself was terrible.
I get faust's vote, but then everyone else just piling on opportunisticly, there are better uses of your time. Like, convince me that my reasoning behind not wanting to mass claim is wrong.
-
basically what TWM said. Keep scum hunting, you don't have to stop all activity waiting for a claim. That (the idea that all activity stops until claims are complete) is very scummy, and I think the development of the wagon is the embodiment of that idea. Is each person individually scummy? Meh. Is the wagon scummy? Yes.
-
Yeah, I am not saying jimmmmm is a terrible lynch, I just think that the wagon itself was terrible.
I get faust's vote, but then everyone else just piling on opportunisticly, there are better uses of your time. Like, convince me that my reasoning behind not wanting to mass claim is wrong.
For me, the reasoning is this: all the roles that are left that may possibly be acquired by town are not superpowerful in the sense that outing then will cost us a game. On the contrary: we will have many ICs, scum will not dare to counterclaim with 17 people alive and even if they do, well, bad for them. We will have a good lynchpool of vts and many almost-IC people
-
Like, convince me that my reasoning behind not wanting to mass claim is wrong.
I can't say it is de facto wrong. I think there is inherent danger in it. I can tell you why I support it. I am a little townie with little information. I'd like to make more informed decisions moving forward if possible. More importantly, I think we need to see how the setup presumably shook out to determine if mcmc/twm can truly be trusted and maybe even corner scum in a fake claim.
-
Yeah, I am not saying jimmmmm is a terrible lynch, I just think that the wagon itself was terrible.
I get faust's vote, but then everyone else just piling on opportunisticly, there are better uses of your time. Like, convince me that my reasoning behind not wanting to mass claim is wrong.
For me, the reasoning is this: all the roles that are left that may possibly be acquired by town are not superpowerful in the sense that outing then will cost us a game. On the contrary: we will have many ICs, scum will not dare to counterclaim with 17 people alive and even if they do, well, bad for them. We will have a good lynchpool of vts and many almost-IC people
I guess I disagree with some of the analysis there. Yes. Outing PRs will not cost us the game. And yes, scum are less likely to counterclaim now. But i find trackers, watchers, alignment cops, role cops, and doctors (all still possible in the unclaimed slots) very useful to town. And that utility fades away if they have claimed.
And I really just think this is being rolled out too early. PRs can claim if they are about to be lynched, yeah. We just really didn't need the mass claim today.
-
Yeah, I am not saying jimmmmm is a terrible lynch, I just think that the wagon itself was terrible.
I get faust's vote, but then everyone else just piling on opportunisticly, there are better uses of your time. Like, convince me that my reasoning behind not wanting to mass claim is wrong.
I don't see the point; you already said that you'll cooperate. That would be more of a waste of time than anything else we could do, including voting for Jimmmm.
-
Yeah, I am not saying jimmmmm is a terrible lynch, I just think that the wagon itself was terrible.
I get faust's vote, but then everyone else just piling on opportunisticly, there are better uses of your time. Like, convince me that my reasoning behind not wanting to mass claim is wrong.
I don't see the point; you already said that you'll cooperate. That would be more of a waste of time than anything else we could do, including voting for Jimmmm.
Yeah, but that doesn't mean I won't do it while kicking and screaming. And maybe, just maybe, I can convince some of you that this is actually not a great idea and people will start supporting not claiming today and then it doesn't have to happen.
-
Well good luck with that.
Anyway we should all vote: sudgy
-
Well good luck with that.
Anyway we should all vote: sudgy
Why exactly?
-
If TWM/Awaclus/mcmc agree, I think we should award Jimmmmm a bucketload of scum points, make him claim early in round 2, and continue with round 1 rather than allowing him to stall the process.
-
FOS to everyone willing to vote for Jimmmm, but not to do anything else.
Yeah, on the one hand the wagon only got to L-4, but on the other hand, it went fast and a sudden popular wagon seems way more desirable for scum than for town.
I think even if/when we find someone we're convinced is likely scum, we want to take the end-of-day wagon carefully. It may even be worth it to scum for them to sacrifice one of their own to mess up the claiming process, so I think it's a bit dangerous to get too pissed off at people not playing along.
-
Seems like quite a bit has happened. So I'm inclined to believe the claims until we have other evidence or claims that would contradict them. However, I do know of at least one possibility of how the claims could go (other than a straight up counterclaim) that would lead me to strongly believe that someone specific is lying. I don't want to say more til after claims are done for obvious reasons. Right now, I'm probably at 80% trusting that faust is town, 79.9% sure Galz is town, I'm leaning scum on Ash, and I'm 94% sure the previous group of 3 are all town, but at this point if mcmc and twm are pulling a fast one, I would almost just concede and say they deserve co-mvp and Players of the Year recognition for it or something.
I still think Sudgy is scummy, and today has done nothing to improve that read. These are his only posts today:
I don't believe in suboptimal play of Galzria. something pings me here
I'm not really V/LA right now. Just super drunk. Just fayi. Birthday brewery hopping. Yay!
Theory question for anyone that wants to answer it.
If you were mafia, would you have bus driven mcmc last night or would you have saved it for a later day?
With only 1-shot, it's in the scum team's best interest you use it with lots of info. And the very public mod ruling would absolutely require that a scum bus driver save their shot. That Robz post killed a lot of strategy space for scum.
Scum would know this a lot better than town would. Vote: ashersky I think that's L-3.
I'm really busy again over the next couple of days.
PPE L-2
Scum would know this a lot better than town would. Vote: ashersky I think that's L-3.
I'm really busy again over the next couple of days.
PPE L-2
I think at this point, the main people who want to run up a speedy wagon are the scums desperate to get to nighttime again so they can drop another townie and work out how to survive the massclaim. For everyone else, there will be more information to vote on if we go through with the claiming than there is available now.
I don't want to end the day. I just wanted to vote him. And sorry about the counting, I just quickly saw all vote: ashersky's in the day.
Theory question for anyone that wants to answer it.
If you were mafia, would you have bus driven mcmc last night or would you have saved it for a later day?
With only 1-shot, it's in the scum team's best interest you use it with lots of info. And the very public mod ruling would absolutely require that a scum bus driver save their shot. That Robz post killed a lot of strategy space for scum.
Scum would know this a lot better than town would. Vote: ashersky I think that's L-3.
I'm really busy again over the next couple of days.
PPE L-2
Easily the weakest note I have ever seen.
Player A: "Hey, what would scum go in this situation?"
Player B: "The clear and obvious thing is X."
Player S: "Vote player B OMG he knows what scum would do he's scum!!!"
Better arrest all the good cops in the world for figuring out what obvious moves criminals will make.
It's combined with the 17 other things you've done. I just thought that was a fun way to vote.
Anyway, I support this massclaim.
This strikes me as scummy.
I'm a VT. I got draft #7 and got too cocky and went for Universal Backup (because it sounded fun and could be possibly be useful).
Based on claim, it's possible based on slot claim that scum!sudgy was really going for bus driver. If Eevee's mason partner (most likely the original mason) was lower that #7 or got it from a random slot, it wouldn't look good for sudgy.
For now, Vote: sudgy
PPE 3
-
Well good luck with that.
Anyway we should all vote: sudgy
Well, just realized that if faust is actually scum, I just gave into the "Point suspicion and let townies fill in reasons for you" plan...
-
If TWM/Awaclus/mcmc agree, I think we should award Jimmmmm a bucketload of scum points, make him claim early in round 2, and continue with round 1 rather than allowing him to stall the process.
Sure.
-
It looks like I'm after Jimmmmm.
I am a VT and got draft position #8.
-
I'm 94% sure the previous group of 3 are all town
Personally, I'm like 90-93% sure.
-
Well good luck with that.
Anyway we should all vote: sudgy
Well, just realized that if faust is actually scum, I just gave into the "Point suspicion and let townies fill in reasons for you" plan...
I suspected sudgy first though. Like way back on D1. Noone wanted to join me besides Eevee, and that in itself is a sign of sudgy being scum.
-
Well good luck with that.
Anyway we should all vote: sudgy
Well, just realized that if faust is actually scum, I just gave into the "Point suspicion and let townies fill in reasons for you" plan...
I suspected sudgy first though. Like way back on D1. Noone wanted to join me besides Eevee, and that in itself is a sign of sudgy being scum.
Which is why you shot cuzz?
-
Well good luck with that.
Anyway we should all vote: sudgy
Well, just realized that if faust is actually scum, I just gave into the "Point suspicion and let townies fill in reasons for you" plan...
I suspected sudgy first though. Like way back on D1. Noone wanted to join me besides Eevee, and that in itself is a sign of sudgy being scum.
Which is why you shot cuzz?
No.
-
I shot sudgy N1 FWIW, but Galzria stopped that from being a thing.
-
I shot sudgy N1 FWIW, but Galzria stopped that from being a thing.
Congruency is worth quite a bit I'd say.
-
I shot sudgy N1 FWIW, but Galzria stopped that from being a thing.
Congruency is worth quite a bit I'd say.
Not sure what you mean. I shot my highest scumread both nights. This should be clear if you reread my play.
-
Can I can just say that publicly declaring yourself the restless sheeper is a good way to avoid being shot by the other scum faction?
-
I shot sudgy N1 FWIW, but Galzria stopped that from being a thing.
Congruency is worth quite a bit I'd say.
Not sure what you mean. I shot my highest scumread both nights. This should be clear if you reread my play.
Yes. I'm saying at first you claiming to have scumread sudgy D1 was incongruent with shooting cuzz but then you FWIW'd that you tried to shoot sudgy D1 and I concurred that it was worth quite a bit because it is congruent.
-
Can I can just say that publicly declaring yourself the restless sheeper is a good way to avoid being shot by the other scum faction?
Okay. I viewed the role as having a higher imperative of identifying a townie to sheep and that townie being the least likely to die. The next highest objective is to get worthwhile reads so my living vote is well placed and my surviving vote is best informed. Leveraging the role to keep myself alive is tertiary but still pro-town.
-
I shot sudgy N1 FWIW, but Galzria stopped that from being a thing.
Congruency is worth quite a bit I'd say.
Not sure what you mean. I shot my highest scumread both nights. This should be clear if you reread my play.
Yes. I'm saying at first you claiming to have scumread sudgy D1 was incongruent with shooting cuzz but then you FWIW'd that you tried to shoot sudgy D1 and I concurred that it was worth quite a bit because it is congruent.
Well of course you have no way of knowing if that's actually true.
-
Leveraging the role to keep myself alive is tertiary but still pro-town.
I have my doubts. You are no better than a VT while alive, so your goal should be to die. As long as you are alive, the PRs that can actually do something are more likely to die.
-
Well good luck with that.
Anyway we should all vote: sudgy
Well, just realized that if faust is actually scum, I just gave into the "Point suspicion and let townies fill in reasons for you" plan...
I suspected sudgy first though. Like way back on D1. Noone wanted to join me besides Eevee, and that in itself is a sign of sudgy being scum.
And me!
-
vote: sudgy
-
Leveraging the role to keep myself alive is tertiary but still pro-town.
I have my doubts. You are no better than a VT while alive, so your goal should be to die. As long as you are alive, the PRs that can actually do something are more likely to die.
Maybe, but dying is not a goal, even as VT. Finding and killing scum is a goal. Leaving a good looking corpse is very much secondary to that. I'm trying to do both.
-
Leveraging the role to keep myself alive is tertiary but still pro-town.
I have my doubts. You are no better than a VT while alive, so your goal should be to die. As long as you are alive, the PRs that can actually do something are more likely to die.
It should be noted that the most efficient way for me to die is to place my sheep on a scum, although I see the WIFOM you insert by suggesting that I could sheep a partner in a multi faction scenario (that, in particular would be pretty stupid, considering my sheeping is public along with my flip). That I am not dead today is decent evidence that TWM is town. More evidence than most of the flimsiness flying around lately, anyhow. So, I'm seeing your dim view of my role utility as myopic.
-
Leveraging the role to keep myself alive is tertiary but still pro-town.
I have my doubts. You are no better than a VT while alive, so your goal should be to die. As long as you are alive, the PRs that can actually do something are more likely to die.
It should be noted that the most efficient way for me to die is to place my sheep on a scum, although I see the WIFOM you insert by suggesting that I could sheep a partner in a multi faction scenario (that, in particular would be pretty stupid, considering my sheeping is public along with my flip). That I am not dead today is decent evidence that TWM is town. More evidence than most of the flimsiness flying around lately, anyhow. So, I'm seeing your dim view of my role utility as myopic.
I don't see that at all. Why in the world would scum!TWM incriminate himself this heavily for no benefit except a second vote that isn't really of any use until MyLo? You stay alive either way. And that is why your claim is so awfully convenient.
-
Faust's case is so incredibly flimsy that he's looking scummy by association.
Especially given that there's a far more reasonable case on Ashersky.
-
seriously why are you fixating on cases that boil down to "this thing that mostly makes sense for town to do ALSO MAKES SENSE FOR SCUM" as if that's a convincing case for anything other than not giving PPS full town status.
-
Non-VT
-
Unvote
-
Faust's case is so incredibly flimsy that he's looking scummy by association.
Especially given that there's a far more reasonable case on Ashersky.
Which case?
-
Non-VT
Draft position?
-
Faust's case is so incredibly flimsy that he's looking scummy by association.
This is how I have constantly felt about Faust this game.
-
9
-
Non-VT
Draft position?
Aren't we trying to claim those round 2?
-
either way dylan you're clearly here and it's your turn so..
chop chop
-
either way dylan you're clearly here and it's your turn so..
chop chop
I claimed already when people were saying to skip Jim and not let him hold up the claim. Anyway, I thought it was VT or nah and draft number but NOT what slot you bid.
-
Aren't we trying to claim those round 2?
Apparently not.
-
Can I can just say that publicly declaring yourself the restless sheeper is a good way to avoid being shot by the other scum faction?
Just to be clear, I would insist that it is better to use my role than to not use it and you should understand that I can't use it without public declaration.
-
Can I can just say that publicly declaring yourself the restless sheeper is a good way to avoid being shot by the other scum faction?
Just to be clear, I would insist that it is better to use my role than to not use it and you should understand that I can't use it without public declaration.
True. I guess it's just not the greatest role ever. Neither are the others in that slot.
I'm not actually sure if it's better to use the role than not, that's how bad it is.
-
Can I can just say that publicly declaring yourself the restless sheeper is a good way to avoid being shot by the other scum faction?
Just to be clear, I would insist that it is better to use my role than to not use it and you should understand that I can't use it without public declaration.
True. I guess it's just not the greatest role ever. Neither are the others in that slot.
I'm not actually sure if it's better to use the role than not, that's how bad it is.
If used correctly on a townie in good standing (especially one that can hide behind an invincible townie) I'd say it's strictly better than not using it at all. I'd also say it's pretty rich criticism coming from the 2-shot vig that has already hit a townie (no arguing some negative utility there). Of those two roles which do you think scum would more likely to select?
-
Scum is so much more likely to pick the "cover my butt and let me shoot townies role over the I have to give town a double vote or out my partners role" this is ridiculous
-
@2.7, it's your turn for the VT/non-VT and draft order claim. Are you intending to post?
If we get no response from e, I think ash is next in Awaclus's queue, followed by RR.
-
It's ridiculous to put these things against one another; there is no place in the draft order where you decide "do I take the Restless Sheeper or the 2-shot Vig?" Vig is better and if you're higher up, you take it no matter the alignment. This is a fake dichotomy. The question that actually matters is would town really take Restless Sheeper over the other roles in that slot? And the other roles aren't amazing, so it's possible. But I think even 1-shot Commuter has higher utility than the Restless Sheeper for town.
-
Faust's case is so incredibly flimsy that he's looking scummy by association.
Especially given that there's a far more reasonable case on Ashersky.
On PPS or sudgy? Cause the sudgy case is good.
-
Faust's case is so incredibly flimsy that he's looking scummy by association.
This is how I have constantly felt about Faust this game.
Cause the case on Andrew or on you or on me that he didn't participate were oh so rock solid?
-
It's ridiculous to put these things against one another; there is no place in the draft order where you decide "do I take the Restless Sheeper or the 2-shot Vig?" Vig is better and if you're higher up, you take it no matter the alignment. This is a fake dichotomy. The question that actually matters is would town really take Restless Sheeper over the other roles in that slot? And the other roles aren't amazing, so it's possible. But I think even 1-shot Commuter has higher utility than the Restless Sheeper for town.
I agree. It is a poor comparison.
Honestly I think you both chose poorly. I like commuter more than restless sheeper and I like IC more than 2-shot vig (and the reason is that if IC had been chosen is that we wouldn't be having this conversation right now over whether faust choosing IC had any bearing on his alignment). But I can see the argument for the 2-shot vig.
But that doesn't make PPS scum. The appeal of Restless Sheeper is that it is more fun and original (so too with 2-shot vig, I suppose), which is legitimate
-
It's ridiculous to put these things against one another; there is no place in the draft order where you decide "do I take the Restless Sheeper or the 2-shot Vig?" Vig is better and if you're higher up, you take it no matter the alignment. This is a fake dichotomy. The question that actually matters is would town really take Restless Sheeper over the other roles in that slot? And the other roles aren't amazing, so it's possible. But I think even 1-shot Commuter has higher utility than the Restless Sheeper for town.
I agree. It is a poor comparison.
Honestly I think you both chose poorly. I like commuter more than restless sheeper and I like IC more than 2-shot vig (and the reason is that if IC had been chosen is that we wouldn't be having this conversation right now over whether faust choosing IC had any bearing on his alignment). But I can see the argument for the 2-shot vig.
But that doesn't make PPS scum. The appeal of Restless Sheeper is that it is more fun and original (so too with 2-shot vig, I suppose), which is legitimate
Oh, I agree. But I have been putting PPS in a "solid town" category due to the claim, and only now have realized that that's probably a bad idea.
-
VT
Pretty sure we weren't supposed to claim our bid position.
-
VT
Pretty sure we weren't supposed to claim our bid position.
Draft order position comes in this round; slot you bid on comes in the second round:
Maybe claim draft order and VT/non-VT in the first round, and then slot and role in the second?
This seems like the best way to go.
I approve of this.
-
To be perfectly clear, I liked the Restless Sheeper role when it was revealed and I gunned for it specifically because I wanted to play it. I'm pretty certain I would not have pursued it were I scum, though. IIRC, scum gets to communicate prior to picking roles so I would expect to have coordinated my role selection with my partners and I can't imagine them suggesting I go for that one.
I'm not saying my role gives me town status, though. I contend my behavior does and I am using my role to the best effect for town. If the argument is we should kill me just to secure my role for town I'd have to say that is a desperate scum ploy to mislynch a townie as clearly there have to be better options than that.
Please tell me faust isn't going to tunnel me all day and shoot me tonight because of such a genius plan.
-
Well, I'm here. I did a massive reread today on a flight but I don't think it's currently a good idea to share reads until we finish this whole mass claim thing.
-
Please tell me faust isn't going to tunnel me all day and shoot me tonight because of such a genius plan.
faust can speak for himself, but I read his posts on you as a friendly reminder to himself and the rest of us that you aren't as ICish as some of us were thinking. Not that he wanted to immediately lynch you. I think it is a fair assessment and one I agree with.
-
Not VT
Is there consensus on when you what our number?
-
Not VT
Is there consensus on when you what our number?
I think that since people started to claim numbers, we should claim them. And yes, consensus was there
Maybe claim draft order and VT/non-VT in the first round, and then slot and role in the second?
This seems like the best way to go.
I approve of this.
-
VT
-
11 - VT
People who didn't claim number should claim.
-
Not VT
Is there consensus on when you what our number?
12
-
5, vt :(
-
21, VT
-
10, VT.
-
I'm not very keen on everyone letting e off without claiming his bid position. He's been generally against the claim all along, but actively holding out to make other people claim things first is scummy.
-
@Awaclus, might I suggest that e is asked to claim bidding order and slot next, before the rest of the living people do any more claiming?
We have 6 dead people who're not going to be claiming anything about bidding order, but there are still several other alive people who have hidden bidding orders, so that should make it too risky to claim falsely.
-
Compiling:
gkrieg - ?, VT
The_Wine_Merchant - ?, Hider (Slot 10)
Calamitas - ?, Mafia Goon
Eevee - ?, Masonic Lover or VT
faust - 1, 2-shot Vig (Slot 1)
LaLight - 5, VT
sudgy - 7, VT
Dylan32 - 8, VT
Jimmmmm - 9, non-VT
Awaclus - 10, VT
iguanaiguana - 11, VT
ashersky - 12, VT
JReggie - 14, VT
JaketheBaseballGod22 - 17, non-VT
SpaceAnemone - 18, VT
Galzria - 20, Jailkeeper (Slot 11)
O - 21, VT
2.71828..... - ?, VT
pingpongsam - ?, Restless Sheeper
RoadRunner - ?, VT
AndrewisFTTW - ?, VT
gkrieg - ?, VT
The_Wine_Merchant - ?, Hider (Slot 10)
Calamitas - ?, Mafia Goon
Eevee - ?, Masonic Lover or VT
Cuzz - ?, VT
mcmcsalot - ?, Hammer Hero (Slot 9)
-
Whoops; ignore the first 4 names, they are double. After that we have draft order with gaps and then the unclaimed darft order spots. I'm fairly certain that one scum has claimed Calamitas' draft order with VT despite being a PR.
-
Compiling
You know what might have been cool? Not posting a helpful here-are-the-unclaimed-slots guide for scummy claims...
-
ashersky is not a vt
-
@Awaclus, might I suggest that e is asked to claim bidding order and slot next, before the rest of the living people do any more claiming?
Yeah.
-
Compiling
You know what might have been cool? Not posting a helpful here-are-the-unclaimed-slots guide for scummy claims...
Right. Because clearly scum won't keep track of that anyway?
-
ashersky is not a vt
True. Will post improved list.
-
faust - 1, 2-shot Vig (Slot 1)
LaLight - 5, VT
sudgy - 7, VT
Dylan32 - 8, VT
Jimmmmm - 9, non-VT
Awaclus - 10, VT
iguanaiguana - 11, VT
ashersky - 12, non-VT
JReggie - 14, VT
JaketheBaseballGod22 - 17, non-VT
SpaceAnemone - 18, VT
Galzria - 20, Jailkeeper (Slot 11)
O - 21, VT
2.71828..... - ?, VT
pingpongsam - ?, Restless Sheeper
RoadRunner - ?, VT
The_Wine_Merchant - ?, Hider (Slot 10)
mcmcsalot - ?, Hammer Hero (Slot 9)
Dead and unclaimed:
AndrewisFTTW - ?, VT
gkrieg - ?, VT
Calamitas - ?, Mafia Goon
Eevee - ?, Masonic Lover or VT
Cuzz - ?, VT
-
Compiling
You know what might have been cool? Not posting a helpful here-are-the-unclaimed-slots guide for scummy claims...
Right. Because clearly scum won't keep track of that anyway?
Each individual scum has a chance of making mistakes. The whole point of this exercise is to force them into a corner.
Your posting updated lists when we're not even half way through the exercise helps town not at all, and scum quite a lot. This is especially true when other players chip in and offer corrections :-(
We should let the information come in from all the players first then analyse it when they've decided on their story. Town!faust should find this precaution really obvious...
-
Vote Count 3.4
iguanaiguana (1): 2.71828......
ashersky (3): O, Galzria, sudgy
Jimmmmm (2): LaLight, JaketheBaseballGod22
sudgy (3): faust, Dylan32, The_Wine_Merchant
Not Voting (8.): ashersky, SpaceAnemone, Awaclus, iguanaiguana, Jimmmmm, mcmcsalot pingpongsam, RoadRunner7671
With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch. Day 3 ends on Monday, June 5th, at 5:00 PM Forum Time.
-
We should let the information come in from all the players first then analyse it when they've decided on their story. Town!faust should find this precaution really obvious...
I will likely not be around to analyze it then, so sorry, but I have to work with this information. I will be VLA from tomorrow until Monday.
-
Okay, so the next things we need from the claim are:
1) e claiming bidding order and slot.
2) RR claiming bidding order and slot?
3) Some combination of TWM, mcmc and PPS claiming bidding order.
4) Everyone claiming slots, in Awaclus's original order, unless he wants to change anything else for phase 2?
Does that procedure sound fine to our IC-ish people?
-
We should let the information come in from all the players first then analyse it when they've decided on their story. Town!faust should find this precaution really obvious...
I will likely not be around to analyze it then, so sorry, but I have to work with this information. I will be VLA from tomorrow until Monday.
I'm not saying don't work with it, I'm saying don't work with it out loud in the thread. Make cases out of it if you can, and vote and stuff, but honestly, what good are you doing town by posting a summarized list at this point?
-
Okay, so the next things we need from the claim are:
1) e claiming bidding order and slot.
2) RR claiming bidding order and slot?
3) Some combination of TWM, mcmc and PPS claiming bidding order.
4) Everyone claiming slots, in Awaclus's original order, unless he wants to change anything else for phase 2?
Does that procedure sound fine to our IC-ish people?
I think we can delay mcmc's, TWM's and Awaclus' detailed claims until everyone else has claimed.
-
We should let the information come in from all the players first then analyse it when they've decided on their story. Town!faust should find this precaution really obvious...
I will likely not be around to analyze it then, so sorry, but I have to work with this information. I will be VLA from tomorrow until Monday.
I'm not saying don't work with it, I'm saying don't work with it out loud in the thread. Make cases out of it if you can, and vote and stuff, but honestly, what good are you doing town by posting a summarized list at this point?
I am trying to figure stuff out. It helps my thought process. I did not think a whole lot before posting it, but if I'm going to make arguments off the claims, then people need to see where my arguments comes from. For example, the large cap after spot one indicates that one highly-ordered scum fakeclaimed Calamitas' bidding spot. Which means we should be looking for scum among people who ranked low but are likely to have guessed M19 as the favorite game. That's O in particular.
-
Okay, so the next things we need from the claim are:
1) e claiming bidding order and slot.
2) RR claiming bidding order and slot?
3) Some combination of TWM, mcmc and PPS claiming bidding order.
4) Everyone claiming slots, in Awaclus's original order, unless he wants to change anything else for phase 2?
Does that procedure sound fine to our IC-ish people?
I think we can delay mcmc's, TWM's and Awaclus' detailed claims until everyone else has claimed.
This.
Also posting the list is fine because it makes things more convenient for everyone, and scum wouldn't make mistakes that big anyway.
-
We should let the information come in from all the players first then analyse it when they've decided on their story. Town!faust should find this precaution really obvious...
I will likely not be around to analyze it then, so sorry, but I have to work with this information. I will be VLA from tomorrow until Monday.
I'm not saying don't work with it, I'm saying don't work with it out loud in the thread. Make cases out of it if you can, and vote and stuff, but honestly, what good are you doing town by posting a summarized list at this point?
I am trying to figure stuff out. It helps my thought process. I did not think a whole lot before posting it, but if I'm going to make arguments off the claims, then people need to see where my arguments comes from. For example, the large cap after spot one indicates that one highly-ordered scum fakeclaimed Calamitas' bidding spot. Which means we should be looking for scum among people who ranked low but are likely to have guessed M19 as the favorite game. That's O in particular.
wat
-
LaLight, could you claim which game you guessed?
-
Bid order was 19
Slot I bid for was 13
-
You understand I didn't play in M19 and had stopped playing well before M19?
-
You understand I didn't play in M19 and had stopped playing well before M19?
No I didn't actually check that. Too bad for my theory.
-
LaLight, could you claim which game you guessed?
Sure, M80
-
Well too bad. Might be I was the only one guessing the correct game.
-
Well too bad. Might be I was the only one guessing the correct game.
Why? There's 3 more people between you and me
-
Galzria and MCMC both won M19 if that's relevant. Both have already claimed though.
-
@RR, it's your turn to claim your draft order and slot now.
After that, we're back to Jake at the top of Awaclus's list.
-
I was position 19 and I bid on slot 13
-
Bid order was 19
Slot I bid for was 13
THATS ME
-
I was position 19 and I bid on slot 13
Same as e?
PPE: yeah, what?
-
we got some counterclaim
-
Haha VT counterclaim
-
that's.. confusing
-
Vote: 2.7
-
Bid order was 19
Slot I bid for was 13
THATS ME
Wut?? Lol
-
Life's crazy
-
Haha.. This is what the claiming exercise is about :-)
Let's keep going, rather than letting anyone else off the hook, though... there's more we can do at the end when all the info is out there.
Jake, you're next!
-
That is interesting.
I don't know why rr would claim my bid order. There goes that town read I had on rr.
And I thought for sure he was town.
-
I mean, scum wanting to hide their actual bid order makes some sense, but they would probably claim calamitas' spot and bid.
-
Haha.. This is what the claiming exercise is about :-)
Let's keep going, rather than letting anyone else off the hook, though... there's more we can do at the end when all the info is out there.
Jake, you're next!
Cool So this is the round where we just put everything on the table right?
-
I mean, scum wanting to hide their actual bid order makes some sense, but they would probably claim calamitas' spot and bid.
Maybe that's exactly what you both did?
-
Can both of you please double check your QT and with robz. I would rather not lynch based off a clerical error or typo, which I think is more likely here than an actual counter claim. In between is an actual mistake made by scum.
Maybe both RR and 2.7 are scum and both used Calam's slot?
-
Vote: 2.7
-
Haha.. This is what the claiming exercise is about :-)
Let's keep going, rather than letting anyone else off the hook, though... there's more we can do at the end when all the info is out there.
Jake, you're next!
Cool So this is the round where we just put everything on the table right?
Yes, unless Awaclus or another trusted-person wants to restrict things in special cases.
-
why would RR use calams slot after E already did, presumably they'd only know calams slot if they're same faction.
-
Can both of you please double check your QT and with robz. I would rather not lynch based off a clerical error or typo, which I think is more likely here than an actual counter claim. In between is an actual mistake made by scum.
Maybe both RR and 2.7 are scum and both used Calam's slot?
oh that would be just awesome.
-
Haha.. This is what the claiming exercise is about :-)
Let's keep going, rather than letting anyone else off the hook, though... there's more we can do at the end when all the info is out there.
Jake, you're next!
Cool So this is the round where we just put everything on the table right?
Preferably faster than 10 minutes this time.
-
why would RR use calams slot after E already did, presumably they'd only know calams slot if they're same faction.
He might've not noticed that e has already done it
-
why would RR use calams slot after E already did, presumably they'd only know calams slot if they're same faction.
The way it looked to me is that RR claimed before reading 2.7's post?
-
Bid order was 19
Slot I bid for was 13
THATS ME
See. Posted and then saw this.
-
Maybe both RR and 2.7 are scum and both used Calam's slot?
Yeah, that's exactly what I was trying to imply in my post above yours.
It wouldn't surprise me to find that Calamitas had a spot near mine, except that my spot is bordered above by Jake's, and I feel significantly less similar to him :-P
-
Bid order was 19
Slot I bid for was 13
THATS ME
See. Posted and then saw this.
Yeah! vote: 2.71828.....
-
Alright so I am the Tracker. I bid on slot #12. N1 I tracked Gkrieg but he died that night. N2 I tracked Ashersky who was jailed. I'm pretty sure I have the worst luck over the last two games.
-
Alright so I am the Tracker. I bid on slot #12. N1 I tracked Gkrieg but he died that night. N2 I tracked Ashersky who was jailed. I'm pretty sure I have the worst luck over the last two games.
Definition of convinient
-
People voting for 2.7: this is good, he's being scummy, but please don't end the day before the claiming exercise is done, because that only benefits scum.
-
Alright so I am the Tracker. I bid on slot #12. N1 I tracked Gkrieg but he died that night. N2 I tracked Ashersky who was jailed. I'm pretty sure I have the worst luck over the last two games.
Definition of convinient
Yep.
-
Alright so I am the Tracker. I bid on slot #12. N1 I tracked Gkrieg but he died that night. N2 I tracked Ashersky who was jailed. I'm pretty sure I have the worst luck over the last two games.
What sort of result did you get on gkrieg?
-
And why ash and gkrieg?
-
sudgy
pingpongsam
SpaceAnemone
Jimmmmm
Dylan32
2.71828......
ashersky
RoadRunner7671
iguanaiguana
LaLight
O
Awaclus
for easy reference
-
Alright so I am the Tracker. I bid on slot #12. N1 I tracked Gkrieg but he died that night. N2 I tracked Ashersky who was jailed. I'm pretty sure I have the worst luck over the last two games.
What sort of result did you get on gkrieg?
"No Result"
-
so Jake is scum too..
-
I wonder if RB targets VT what result goes to Tracker.
ah we also may have RB, but why did they target Jake?
Jake, have you breadcrumbed your role?
-
Alright so I am the Tracker. I bid on slot #12. N1 I tracked Gkrieg but he died that night. N2 I tracked Ashersky who was jailed. I'm pretty sure I have the worst luck over the last two games.
What other role was in that slot?
-
Huh?
-
Alright so I am the Tracker. I bid on slot #12. N1 I tracked Gkrieg but he died that night. N2 I tracked Ashersky who was jailed. I'm pretty sure I have the worst luck over the last two games.
What sort of result did you get on gkrieg?
"No Result"
This fits with what Robz posted earlier.
-
I don't love Jake's results, but they are plausible, if convenient. The biggest thing against him is that he felt the need to preface all this with his first portion of claiming yesterday and took a good long while to do it.
-
Alright so I am the Tracker. I bid on slot #12. N1 I tracked Gkrieg but he died that night. N2 I tracked Ashersky who was jailed. I'm pretty sure I have the worst luck over the last two games.
What sort of result did you get on gkrieg?
"No Result"
This fits with what Robz posted earlier.
ah, I missed it. Okay then
-
The e/RR situation is hilarious and a major mafia messup makes the most sense.
-
In which case I'm pretty sure we just win.
-
I have a counterclaim thing of sorts, if folks want to kill the massclaim now. Plenty of info already.
-
From my perspective, I think at least two and maybe three scum have outed themselves, not including the RR/2.7 thing.
-
I have a counterclaim thing of sorts, if folks want to kill the massclaim now. Plenty of info already.
What do you mean? You can counterclaim someone? I suppose that's good.
-
From my perspective, I think at least two and maybe three scum have outed themselves, not including the RR/2.7 thing.
I'm intrigued.
-
From my perspective, I think at least two and maybe three scum have outed themselves, not including the RR/2.7 thing.
I'm intrigued.
i'm skeptical
-
I have a counterclaim thing of sorts, if folks want to kill the massclaim now. Plenty of info already.
What do you mean? You can counterclaim someone? I suppose that's good.
Yes, plus more.
-
From my perspective, I think at least two and maybe three scum have outed themselves, not including the RR/2.7 thing.
I'm intrigued.
i'm skeptical
You are biased.
-
I have a counterclaim thing of sorts, if folks want to kill the massclaim now. Plenty of info already.
I dunno... if we get all the VTs to claim slots, then we could force out other errors. I'd prefer we complete the exercise rather than leaving it half-done with all this info out there already for scum.
-
From my perspective, I think at least two and maybe three scum have outed themselves, not including the RR/2.7 thing.
I'm intrigued.
i'm skeptical
You are biased.
because i think you're scum? sure
because i'm scum? nope
-
I am in favor of ash claiming now; we can still go on afterwards.
-
I have a counterclaim thing of sorts, if folks want to kill the massclaim now. Plenty of info already.
I dunno... if we get all the VTs to claim slots, then we could force out other errors. I'd prefer we complete the exercise rather than leaving it half-done with all this info out there already for scum.
Could be. I'm not really caring much about draft order, and we know all the slots now. There should be enough information for PRs to know what's what at this point, no? Like me.
-
From my perspective, I think at least two and maybe three scum have outed themselves, not including the RR/2.7 thing.
I'm intrigued.
i'm skeptical
You are biased.
because i think you're scum? sure
because i'm scum? nope
I never said you were scum. Overly jumpy much?
I clearly meant the first.
-
Alright so I am the Tracker. I bid on slot #12. N1 I tracked Gkrieg but he died that night. N2 I tracked Ashersky who was jailed. I'm pretty sure I have the worst luck over the last two games.
What other role was in that slot?
@Jake, this is a good question to answer.
-
From my perspective, I think at least two and maybe three scum have outed themselves, not including the RR/2.7 thing.
If it's possible to answer without giving away info you want to sit on for now, can you say whether you think you've figured out any not-Mafia scums?
I think between Calamitas's death and the RR/e thing, we've weakened the main scum side, but we have to be careful not to get too complacent with one-or-two-person faction.
-
Hey ashersky, why don't you spill the beans?
-
I can tell I'm gonna have to fight for my life to get 2.7 lynched then fight for my life again to convince you guys this isn't a scum mishap. I've never been counterclaimed before.
But you guys don't give me enough credit. I wouldn't accidentally counterclaim my partner, I'm not that bad at beinh scum.
-
Alright so I am the Tracker. I bid on slot #12. N1 I tracked Gkrieg but he died that night. N2 I tracked Ashersky who was jailed. I'm pretty sure I have the worst luck over the last two games.
What other role was in that slot?
@Jake, this is a good question to answer.
Can I anwser it after a few claims? Whoever claims slot 7 is probably the scum Godfathere-er.
-
I can tell I'm gonna have to fight for my life to get 2.7 lynched then fight for my life again to convince you guys this isn't a scum mishap. I've never been counterclaimed before.
But you guys don't give me enough credit. I wouldn't accidentally counterclaim my partner, I'm not that bad at beinh scum.
Do you think e is?
-
Alright so I am the Tracker. I bid on slot #12. N1 I tracked Gkrieg but he died that night. N2 I tracked Ashersky who was jailed. I'm pretty sure I have the worst luck over the last two games.
What other role was in that slot?
@Jake, this is a good question to answer.
Can I anwser it after a few claims? Whoever claims slot 7 is probably the scum Godfathere-er.
No, you should answer now.
-
I can tell I'm gonna have to fight for my life to get 2.7 lynched then fight for my life again to convince you guys this isn't a scum mishap. I've never been counterclaimed before.
But you guys don't give me enough credit. I wouldn't accidentally counterclaim my partner, I'm not that bad at beinh scum.
Do you think e is?
No. That's what I'm saying. This isn't a scum mishap, we're both #2good
-
Alright so I am the Tracker. I bid on slot #12. N1 I tracked Gkrieg but he died that night. N2 I tracked Ashersky who was jailed. I'm pretty sure I have the worst luck over the last two games.
What other role was in that slot?
@Jake, this is a good question to answer.
Can I anwser it after a few claims? Whoever claims slot 7 is probably the scum Godfathere-er.
No, you should answer now.
Fine the other role I got was 1 shot Commuter
-
I'm not super thrilled with Jake's claim but he's out of my lynchpool for today. It looks something like this:
2.7
-
I can tell I'm gonna have to fight for my life to get 2.7 lynched then fight for my life again to convince you guys this isn't a scum mishap. I've never been counterclaimed before.
But you guys don't give me enough credit. I wouldn't accidentally counterclaim my partner, I'm not that bad at beinh scum.
Do you think e is?
No. That's what I'm saying. This isn't a scum mishap, we're both #2good
Well, one of you must have messed up. If you want me to believe that you're town, you should try to convince me that it was e.
-
Would it help if I said my formidable mafia team, favorite game and townies that got me to slot 19?
-
Although it's crazy that 2.7 also claimed slot 13.
-
Although it's crazy that 2.7 also claimed slot 13.
Vote: RR
-
So one of rr/2.7 has to be scum at least correct? That's good.
-
Can both of you please double check your QT and with robz. I would rather not lynch based off a clerical error or typo, which I think is more likely here than an actual counter claim. In between is an actual mistake made by scum.
Maybe both RR and 2.7 are scum and both used Calam's slot?
Robz just confirmed me in QT that no mistake was made btw.
-
So one of rr/2.7 has to be scum at least correct? That's good.
yeahs!
-
ash breadcrumb something cool and disappeared. Who does that
-
So one of rr/2.7 has to be scum at least correct? That's good.
Yeah, though the fact that they gave exactly the same claim suggests they got it from the same place, so I'm suspicious of both of them. RR could just have copied e, but he seemed surprised at the matching, so I think it's more likely they both got it from the scum QT. It's also telling that they (along with Jimmmmm) were the ones who managed to "forget" or "not quite understand" about claiming bidding order in the first round of claims.
-
Are we going to get sudgy soon?
Awaclus, did you want to postpone PPS's spot-claiming till the end?
I can continue now so as not to hold things up if we want. I'm going to be a bit absent tonight (from about 2pm forum time till really late/tomorrow morning) because I've got eight guests coming over for dinner and boardgames :-)
-
So one of rr/2.7 has to be scum at least correct? That's good.
Yeah, though the fact that they gave exactly the same claim suggests they got it from the same place, so I'm suspicious of both of them. RR could just have copied e, but he seemed surprised at the matching, so I think it's more likely they both got it from the scum QT. It's also telling that they (along with Jimmmmm) were the ones who managed to "forget" or "not quite understand" about claiming bidding order in the first round of claims.
Cool. As a reminder, don't claim your role or what you bid for until round two.
PPS has already claimed Restless Sheeper but I guess we don't know his draft order. I'd actually recommend that he doesn't claim that until round two, because I can't see how that possibly helps us.
So if we can agree to skip PPS for now, Spaceanemone is next.
There was no forgetting or misunderstanding. It was the original plan agreed upon by a consensus of people. Then people started claiming draft position and it became a "consensus" between you and Awaclus.
-
And yes. I saw your consensus with Awaclus, I just decided not to do it.
-
I have a counterclaim thing of sorts, if folks want to kill the massclaim now. Plenty of info already.
I dunno... if we get all the VTs to claim slots, then we could force out other errors. I'd prefer we complete the exercise rather than leaving it half-done with all this info out there already for scum.
Could be. I'm not really caring much about draft order, and we know all the slots now. There should be enough information for PRs to know what's what at this point, no? Like me.
Very interested in what ashersky has to say here.
-
Cool. As a reminder, don't claim your role or what you bid for until round two.
PPS has already claimed Restless Sheeper but I guess we don't know his draft order. I'd actually recommend that he doesn't claim that until round two, because I can't see how that possibly helps us.
So if we can agree to skip PPS for now, Spaceanemone is next.
There was no forgetting or misunderstanding. It was the original plan agreed upon by a consensus of people. Then people started claiming draft position and it became a "consensus" between you and Awaclus.
The post you quote from iguana was already after we'd started the claims, and he's reminding people not to claim the slot or role after sudgy over-claimed.
Note that in the section you quoted, iguana's saying nothing about not claiming the place in bid order, because claiming bid places is exactly what was agreed before!
-
Ah, though it's true that sudgy already did claim what he went for. Are we satisfied that he won't try to wriggle out of saying he went for slot 6 (UB) if we continue?
-
Ah, though it's true that sudgy already did claim what he went for. Are we satisfied that he won't try to wriggle out of saying he went for slot 6 (UB) if we continue?
I'm not wriggling. I tried for UB and failed :(
-
Cool. As a reminder, don't claim your role or what you bid for until round two.
PPS has already claimed Restless Sheeper but I guess we don't know his draft order. I'd actually recommend that he doesn't claim that until round two, because I can't see how that possibly helps us.
So if we can agree to skip PPS for now, Spaceanemone is next.
There was no forgetting or misunderstanding. It was the original plan agreed upon by a consensus of people. Then people started claiming draft position and it became a "consensus" between you and Awaclus.
The post you quote from iguana was already after we'd started the claims, and he's reminding people not to claim the slot or role after sudgy over-claimed.
Note that in the section you quoted, iguana's saying nothing about not claiming the place in bid order, because claiming bid places is exactly what was agreed before!
Ok. Yeah. In that case there was misunderstanding. Reading is hard sometimes
-
Ah, though it's true that sudgy already did claim what he went for. Are we satisfied that he won't try to wriggle out of saying he went for slot 6 (UB) if we continue?
And it absolutely does not matter what you went for if you didn't get it. The slot is the only thing that matters
-
Ah, though it's true that sudgy already did claim what he went for. Are we satisfied that he won't try to wriggle out of saying he went for slot 6 (UB) if we continue?
I'm not wriggling. I tried for UB and failed :(
Yeah, I'm just looking for you to confirm that it was slot 6, and not some backup slot where you'd hoped to get it. I mean, it seems silly, but I don't know you, and some people (like the Robzs of the world!) would be perfectly capable of arguing that I'm misunderstanding them if I don't force things to be clear.
-
Awaclus, did you want to postpone PPS's spot-claiming till the end?
I don't think it makes a huge difference, but sure. If PPS wants to claim sooner than that, that's fine too.
-
Ah, though it's true that sudgy already did claim what he went for. Are we satisfied that he won't try to wriggle out of saying he went for slot 6 (UB) if we continue?
I'm not wriggling. I tried for UB and failed :(
Yeah, I'm just looking for you to confirm that it was slot 6, and not some backup slot where you'd hoped to get it. I mean, it seems silly, but I don't know you, and some people (like the Robzs of the world!) would be perfectly capable of arguing that I'm misunderstanding them if I don't force things to be clear.
Yeah, slot 6.
-
I went for slot 12.
-
Bid order was 19
Slot I bid for was 13
THATS ME
Hahaha
unvote: Ashersky
Which of you shot at Ash last night?
-
@Jake
And why ash and gkrieg?
Still want this answered.
-
I would rather have the next couple of people go than have to wait x amount of time for Jimmmm
-
At this point, but expecting more is still to come, I would be ok lynching 2.7, RR or Jake.
But I prefer 2.7.
-
From my perspective, I think at least two and maybe three scum have outed themselves, not including the RR/2.7 thing.
If it's possible to answer without giving away info you want to sit on for now, can you say whether you think you've figured out any not-Mafia scums?
I think between Calamitas's death and the RR/e thing, we've weakened the main scum side, but we have to be careful not to get too complacent with one-or-two-person faction.
Not really able to say without giving away too much. I'm interested to see how the rr/2.7 thing gets explained. They literally claimed the same order and slot, right?
Sounds like misreading a QT post?
-
@Jake
And why ash and gkrieg?
Still want this answered.
Oh sorry. I felt gkrieg was being sorta different on D1 which was why I did him. I originally chose Faust N2 but later changed it to ashersky later on because I was checking to see if he was the sk.
-
@Jake
And why ash and gkrieg?
Still want this answered.
Oh sorry. I felt gkrieg was being sorta different on D1 which was why I did him. I originally chose Faust N2 but later changed it to ashersky later on because I was checking to see if he was the sk.
You say that like you know for sure there's an SK...
-
@Jake
And why ash and gkrieg?
Still want this answered.
Oh sorry. I felt gkrieg was being sorta different on D1 which was why I did him. I originally chose Faust N2 but later changed it to ashersky later on because I was checking to see if he was the sk.
You say that like you know for sure there's an SK...
If I'm understanding the deaths right there is one.
-
@Jake
And why ash and gkrieg?
Still want this answered.
Oh sorry. I felt gkrieg was being sorta different on D1 which was why I did him. I originally chose Faust N2 but later changed it to ashersky later on because I was checking to see if he was the sk.
You say that like you know for sure there's an SK...
Are you suggesting that his using SK doesn't provide for differentiation between SK and WW? Because there is certainly one or the other:
"Setup
This game includes 5 Mafia, 17 Townies, and 1 Odd-Night Bulletproof Serial Killer. The Serial Killer is automatically Odd-Night Bulletproof, regardless of whether the SK receives an additional PR from the slots. This causes the Serial Killer to survive a night kill on odd-numbered nights".
Seems a silly thing to call him on. I think most people use them interchangeably until we know for certain which is in the game.
-
Way back when I revealed my role I claimed I shot straight for it in Slot 2. I was #15 in the draft position.
-
Way back when I revealed my role I claimed I shot straight for it in Slot 2. I was #15 in the draft position.
Lol
-
Ok, since I'm not sure how much I'll be able to be on later today (maybe a lot, maybe almost none), I'll go ahead and go rather than waiting for Jimmmmm.
To repeat, VT, bid #8. I bid on slot 13 and did not get it.
Preliminary Vote: e pending official vote count. Don't want to run it up too high before claim is done. I do think both RR and e are likely scum. That's seems to be the most likely explanation.
-
Ok, since I'm not sure how much I'll be able to be on later today (maybe a lot, maybe almost none), I'll go ahead and go rather than waiting for Jimmmmm.
To repeat, VT, bid #8. I bid on slot 13 and did not get it.
Preliminary Vote: e pending official vote count. Don't want to run it up too high before claim is done. I do think both RR and e are likely scum. That's seems to be the most likely explanation.
That would mean the winner of slot 13 came from bids #2, #3, #4 or #6 based off current knowledge --- with both 2.7 and RR claiming to have bid on the slot from #19.
-
Ok, since I'm not sure how much I'll be able to be on later today (maybe a lot, maybe almost none), I'll go ahead and go rather than waiting for Jimmmmm.
To repeat, VT, bid #8. I bid on slot 13 and did not get it.
Preliminary Vote: e pending official vote count. Don't want to run it up too high before claim is done. I do think both RR and e are likely scum. That's seems to be the most likely explanation.
That would mean the winner of slot 13 came from bids #2, #3, #4 or #6 based off current knowledge --- with both 2.7 and RR claiming to have bid on the slot from #19.
Not calling your claim out here - but does anybody from top 6 really go for slot 13? Seems crazy to me.
-
Ok, since I'm not sure how much I'll be able to be on later today (maybe a lot, maybe almost none), I'll go ahead and go rather than waiting for Jimmmmm.
To repeat, VT, bid #8. I bid on slot 13 and did not get it.
Preliminary Vote: e pending official vote count. Don't want to run it up too high before claim is done. I do think both RR and e are likely scum. That's seems to be the most likely explanation.
That would mean the winner of slot 13 came from bids #2, #3, #4 or #6 based off current knowledge --- with both 2.7 and RR claiming to have bid on the slot from #19.
Not calling your claim out here - but does anybody from top 6 really go for slot 13? Seems crazy to me.
I would go for the 13 spot if I had gotten #1. Getting to see 3 roles gives you so much information, you have your pick of roles from multiple slots and I love the random aspect personally.
-
Ok, since I'm not sure how much I'll be able to be on later today (maybe a lot, maybe almost none), I'll go ahead and go rather than waiting for Jimmmmm.
To repeat, VT, bid #8. I bid on slot 13 and did not get it.
Preliminary Vote: e pending official vote count. Don't want to run it up too high before claim is done. I do think both RR and e are likely scum. That's seems to be the most likely explanation.
That would mean the winner of slot 13 came from bids #2, #3, #4 or #6 based off current knowledge --- with both 2.7 and RR claiming to have bid on the slot from #19.
Not calling your claim out here - but does anybody from top 6 really go for slot 13? Seems crazy to me.
I would go for the 13 spot if I had gotten #1. Getting to see 3 roles gives you so much information, you have your pick of roles from multiple slots and I love the random aspect personally.
This ^. I don't know about with the #1 pick overall, but I figured people ahead of me would go with specifically what they want and that the extra info from having option other people passed over would be great. Unfortunately, someone higher had the same (or similar) idea.
-
Updates:
faust - 1, 2-shot Vig (Slot 1)
LaLight - 5, VT
sudgy - 7, VT
Dylan32 - 8, VT (Slot 13)
Jimmmmm - 9, non-VT
Awaclus - 10, VT
iguanaiguana - 11, VT
ashersky - 12, non-VT
JReggie - 14, VT
pingpongsam - 15, Restless Sheeper (Slot 2)
JaketheBaseballGod22 - 17, Tracker (Slot 12)
SpaceAnemone - 18, VT
e/RR - 19, Slot 13
Galzria - 20, Jailkeeper (Slot 11)
O - 21, VT
The_Wine_Merchant - ?, Hider (Slot 10)
mcmcsalot - ?, Hammer Hero (Slot 9)
Dead and unclaimed:
AndrewisFTTW - ?, VT
gkrieg - ?, VT
Calamitas - ?, Mafia Goon
Eevee - ?, Masonic Lover or VT
Cuzz - ?, VT
I assume mcmc and TWM are both in the 2-6 range of bidding order to go for these roles. One of ash/Jimmmmm is the Masonic Lover, and I think it's Jimmmmm. ash would know.
PPE: 5
-
This ^. I don't know about with the #1 pick overall, but I figured people ahead of me would go with specifically what they want and that the extra info from having option other people passed over would be great. Unfortunately, someone higher had the same (or similar) idea.
I think it's a pretty good slot and am not at all surprised that someone took it. It has an okay chance of having a decent role and most importantly contains more setup information than any other slot.
-
I just want to make sure that you guys know, even if you lynch me, that I was slot 19 and bid for #13.
-
I just want to make sure that you guys know, even if you lynch me, that I was slot 19 and bid for #13.
I think we get it by now.
-
So we know with pretty decent certainty that scum has slot 13. That also means that 1-shot Bus Driver is still very much within the realm of the possible, as is 1-shot Lightning Rod.
-
A curious thing: If e and RR truly took Calamitas' bids as their fakeclaim - why would Calamitas bid for slot 13 if he knows one of his teammates will win the slot before him?
-
A curious thing: If e and RR truly took Calamitas' bids as their fakeclaim - why would Calamitas bid for slot 13 if he knows one of his teammates will win the slot before him?
Occam's Razor: I didn't take Calamitas's bidding slot.
-
One of ash/Jimmmmm is the Masonic Lover, and I think it's Jimmmmm.
Well I guess enough is on the table that there's no point holding on to this. Yes, I'm the other Mason.
I was actually #3 in the draft; Eevee was #9.
-
Eevee also bid for Masons, so no extra info there.
-
Eevee also bid for Masons, so no extra info there.
Which game did you guess?
-
Eevee also bid for Masons, so no extra info there.
Which game did you guess?
Deep Space 9.
-
Was hoping to see ash's big reveal before I have to leave. Little chance of that now. I might pop in tomorrow, and I may very well be back before the deadline, but no promises.
-
Eevee also bid for Masons, so no extra info there.
Which game did you guess?
Deep Space 9.
So we know at least 1 other person (draft position 2) guessed the correct game.
-
And that person is either scum or dead.
Cuzz would be an option, but only if he then tried to gun for slot 1.
-
Oh, I supposed it might be mcmc. We'll see.
-
Vote: e
-
Vote Count 3.5
iguanaiguana (1): 2.71828......
ashersky (2): O, sudgy
sudgy (1): Dylan32
2.71828...... (4): RoadRunner7671, The_Wine_Merchant, LaLight, faust
RoadRunner7671 (1): JaketheBaseballGod22
Not Voting (8.): ashersky, SpaceAnemone, Awaclus, iguanaiguana, Jimmmmm, mcmcsalot, pingpongsam, Galzria
With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch. Day 3 ends on Monday, June 5th, at 5:00 PM Forum Time.
-
Vote: e
-
I'm gong to be seriously V/LA all day tomorrow (may not even be able to check from mobile), and limited LA Sunday (completely gone 1:00pm-8:00pm, phone access 8:00pm- midnight).
Monday I'm at work 2:30pm-11:30pm, but will have phone access - so I SHOULD be aware of the approaching deadline.
Anyway, I want a tentative vote: e that will go bold after next vote count.
PPE: A count and vote.
Vote: 2.7
L-3
-
I'm willing to go L-2 on e, but were we wanting some combination of Awaclus and TWM to coordinate with mcmc for the last 3 votes?
-
I'm gong to be seriously V/LA all day tomorrow (may not even be able to check from mobile), and limited LA Sunday (completely gone 1:00pm-8:00pm, phone access 8:00pm- midnight).
Monday I'm at work 2:30pm-11:30pm, but will have phone access - so I SHOULD be aware of the approaching deadline.
Anyway, I want a tentative vote: e that will go bold after next vote count.
PPE: A count and vote.
Vote: 2.7
L-3
Sorry, brain fried. I'm off by a day. Craziness starts Saturday. I'll be here until then.
-
I'm willing to go L-2 on e, but were we wanting some combination of Awaclus and TWM to coordinate with mcmc for the last 3 votes?
mcmc did just fine without me last time. But I would hold off. Given that we might have just ID'ed two scum they could potentially quick hammer 2.7
-
Except RR is already voting for him. So never mind.
-
I'm willing to go L-2 on e, but were we wanting some combination of Awaclus and TWM to coordinate with mcmc for the last 3 votes?
mcmc did just fine without me last time. But I would hold off. Given that we might have just ID'ed two scum they could potentially quick hammer 2.7
RR is already on wagon, so unless you are referring to someone else, that's less of a risk than you might be thinking.
-
But either way, I'm going to hold off until after Ash throws down what he knows.
-
I'm willing to go L-2 on e, but were we wanting some combination of Awaclus and TWM to coordinate with mcmc for the last 3 votes?
Generally, yes. But the only vote that actually matters is mcmc (who is vitally important).
-
But either way, I'm going to hold off until after Ash throws down what he knows.
And yeah, I don't think we're done with the day.
-
But either way, I'm going to hold off until after Ash throws down what he knows.
And yeah, I don't think we're done with the day.
I agree.
Tangent: I will probably be around for the deadline unless I end up having to schedule meetings for that afternoon.
-
I'm fine with e lynch in general but it's too soon right now.
-
Whose turn?
-
I'm fine with e lynch in general but it's too soon right now.
ditto
-
A curious thing: If e and RR truly took Calamitas' bids as their fakeclaim - why would Calamitas bid for slot 13 if he knows one of his teammates will win the slot before him?
I think it wouldn't be unreasonable for them both to claim Calamitas's place in the bidding order, and the independently both decide to claim slot 13 if they know it went to someone higher in the order than Calamitas (i.e. another mafia player), even if it wasn't Cal's slot.
-
A curious thing: If e and RR truly took Calamitas' bids as their fakeclaim - why would Calamitas bid for slot 13 if he knows one of his teammates will win the slot before him?
I think it wouldn't be unreasonable for them both to claim Calamitas's place in the bidding order, and the independently both decide to claim slot 13 if they know it went to someone higher in the order than Calamitas (i.e. another mafia player), even if it wasn't Cal's slot.
You think I accidentally counterclaimed e?
-
Whose turn?
Ash is next in the ordering list for claiming slot and role. It sounds like he's got plenty to say anyway.
After that, the rest of the order is:
iguanaiguana
LaLight
O
Awaclus
TWM & mcmc
-
I'm fine with e lynch in general but it's too soon right now.
ditto
Ditto too. Though I'd also like to hear ash's big reveal, because that might colour things differently: he said his information implicates people other than e/RR, didn't he?
I'll feel super-vindicated if my obsessive pushing of the claiming plan turns out to have helped us finger all the bad guys simultaneously before the day is out :-)
-
A curious thing: If e and RR truly took Calamitas' bids as their fakeclaim - why would Calamitas bid for slot 13 if he knows one of his teammates will win the slot before him?
I think it wouldn't be unreasonable for them both to claim Calamitas's place in the bidding order, and the independently both decide to claim slot 13 if they know it went to someone higher in the order than Calamitas (i.e. another mafia player), even if it wasn't Cal's slot.
You think I accidentally counterclaimed e?
I think the two of you both happened upon the same scum fake-claim, but you didn't think to check e's claim before making your own. It's possible you just picked a town VT to counter-claim on purpose, but that seems rather less likely. I think you being town and e being scum seems even more unlikely, but since e has been more vocal/opinionated in the game, I'm comfortable with him being the one lynched off first.
I'm not actually sure which of the two of you I think would have precedence in the bidding order, since you've both been around a lot longer than I have... does anyone else have any thoughts on that?
-
My post after my claim was made 19 seconds after I posted my claim. You really think I didn't read e's post, read it ~5 seconds later, then had an outburst?
-
My post after my claim was made 19 seconds after I posted my claim. You really think I didn't read e's post, read it ~5 seconds later, then had an outburst?
What, so you made a claim, knowing you were counterclaiming someone else in the game, and didn't claim it that same post? That's just a weird thing to do. I admit I hadn't examined that timing closely, because the two posts are on different pages for me. The timing is far less important than the fact that at least one of you must be lying because of the matching claim, though.
Either way, I'm happy to vote for e today, and to see whether ash's claim gives us more to chew over.
-
My post after my claim was made 19 seconds after I posted my claim. You really think I didn't read e's post, read it ~5 seconds later, then had an outburst?
That seems more likely than you knowing what he said, and in a separate post posting a reaction to the fact it was identical. I don't know why you would have felt the need to split it into 2 posts like that. Maybe you did, but if you think about it, that possibility is probably a good chunk of the reason why the wagon is on e right now instead of you.
PPE 1
-
That's just a weird thing to do.
RR breaks the meta.
-
So RR, why does 2.7 do what he does and lie as scum, if you are being truthful and are town?
It makes sense for him to lie about having Calam's role. But why does he take yours? Where does the info come from? And so exactly? It is highly likely to not be coincidence. So how does he know your exact slot and role? If you want us to lynch him and not you, you need to come up with a narrative for that.
-
So RR, why does 2.7 do what he does and lie as scum, if you are being truthful and are town?
It makes sense for him to lie about having Calam's role. But why does he take yours? Where does the info come from? And so exactly? It is highly likely to not be coincidence. So how does he know your exact slot and role? If you want us to lynch him and not you, you need to come up with a narrative for that.
This game is so crazy. Why do you think my first response was "THAT'S ME!"
I have no reasonable explanation. It's just insane.
-
I will claim in the morning if we haven't heard from Ash by then.
Given that e tried to push three different mislynches D1 & 2 (if you count TWM), then started the day by pushing my mislynch, I feel pretty damn good about how he slipped up here. My only sadness is that you guys all already voted him before I could read the thread and now I don't get the correct lynch stats.
-
Does anyone have any plausible theories regarding the e/RR thing?
-
Does anyone have any plausible theories regarding the e/RR thing?
I don't.
-
Does anyone have any plausible theories regarding the e/RR thing?
I do
-
Does anyone have any plausible theories regarding the e/RR thing?
I do
Who did you shoot at last night?
-
If you don't have a plausible theory then it must be that you both obtained it from a shated source. So you must be partners and therefore scum.
DO you agree?
Otherwise come up with something. Your unwillingness to even try is telling.
-
Does anyone have any plausible theories regarding the e/RR thing?
I do
Let's hear them.
-
Your unwillingness to even try is telling.
I've been misread so many times and I usually am I okay with it because the people who misread me won't claim to be good at reading me, but here that won't be the case.
There is no logical reason, short of us being partners, that 2.7 could know my bidding slot and what I bid for. However, it is a fact that we are not partners.
Therefore the reason must not be logical.
-
Surely the leading theory currently is "scum ploy that they thought we'd think they would never do as scum".
-
Surely the leading theory currently is "scum ploy that they thought we'd think they would never do as scum".
This is the problem. That theory makes sense, but I know it's not true. But you guys can't know it's not true. Boy this is frustrating.
-
Your unwillingness to even try is telling.
I've been misread so many times and I usually am I okay with it because the people who misread me won't claim to be good at reading me, but here that won't be the case.
There is no logical reason, short of us being partners, that 2.7 could know my bidding slot and what I bid for. However, it is a fact that we are not partners.
Therefore the reason must not be logical.
That isn't how logic works.
-
Your unwillingness to even try is telling.
I've been misread so many times and I usually am I okay with it because the people who misread me won't claim to be good at reading me, but here that won't be the case.
There is no logical reason, short of us being partners, that 2.7 could know my bidding slot and what I bid for. However, it is a fact that we are not partners.
Therefore the reason must not be logical.
That isn't how logic works.
There is no logical solution besides 2.7 and I being partners.
2.7 and I aren't partners.
Therefore, there is no logical solution.
I think that's exactly how logic works.
-
Your unwillingness to even try is telling.
I've been misread so many times and I usually am I okay with it because the people who misread me won't claim to be good at reading me, but here that won't be the case.
There is no logical reason, short of us being partners, that 2.7 could know my bidding slot and what I bid for. However, it is a fact that we are not partners.
Therefore the reason must not be logical.
That isn't how logic works.
There is no logical solution besides 2.7 and I being partners.
2.7 and I aren't partners.
Therefore, there is no logical solution.
I think that's exactly how logic works.
No. If what you say is true, then there is a logical solution. You just haven't found it yet. Find it, and then I will listen to you. If you can't find it, then SOL. If you won't even try to find it, then I have zero sympathy.
-
Your unwillingness to even try is telling.
I've been misread so many times and I usually am I okay with it because the people who misread me won't claim to be good at reading me, but here that won't be the case.
There is no logical reason, short of us being partners, that 2.7 could know my bidding slot and what I bid for. However, it is a fact that we are not partners.
Therefore the reason must not be logical.
That isn't how logic works.
There is no logical solution besides 2.7 and I being partners.
2.7 and I aren't partners.
Therefore, there is no logical solution.
I think that's exactly how logic works.
No. If what you say is true, then there is a logical solution. You just haven't found it yet. Find it, and then I will listen to you. If you can't find it, then SOL. If you won't even try to find it, then I have zero sympathy.
There's a solution, it just isn't logical. My leading theory is that 2.7 took an awesomesauce guess.
-
There's a solution, it just isn't logical. My leading theory is that 2.7 took an awesomesauce guess.
Not good enough. Why did he feel compelled to make an awesomesauce guess? Why couldn't he have just stuck with something closer to the truth? Do you really think that his awesomesauce guess was actually a guess. Someone can do the odds of getting both #s right. But I am guessing they are in the extremely low probability range.
-
There's a solution, it just isn't logical. My leading theory is that 2.7 took an awesomesauce guess.
Not good enough. Why did he feel compelled to make an awesomesauce guess? Why couldn't he have just stuck with something closer to the truth? Do you really think that his awesomesauce guess was actually a guess. Someone can do the odds of getting both #s right. But I am guessing they are in the extremely low probability range.
Can you assume I'm town who was slot 19 and bid on slot #13 for just a second. Put yourself in my shoes.
What type of 'logical solution' could you come up with?
-
There's a solution, it just isn't logical. My leading theory is that 2.7 took an awesomesauce guess.
Not good enough. Why did he feel compelled to make an awesomesauce guess? Why couldn't he have just stuck with something closer to the truth? Do you really think that his awesomesauce guess was actually a guess. Someone can do the odds of getting both #s right. But I am guessing they are in the extremely low probability range.
Can you assume I'm town who was slot 19 and bid on slot #13 for just a second. Put yourself in my shoes.
What type of 'logical solution' could you come up with?
Not my job. Why would I hand you a possible solution when you could be scum?
I am willing to consider that you might be town, and have. Odds point toward you being scum. If you want to be resigned and accept that, be my guest. But don't give me the "woe is me" act if you aren't willing to do the work yourself.
That is what started this whole conversation, you asking, "do you really think I would X" and the answer is yes compared to the other possibility of 2.7 guessing your numbers.
-
I'm not gonna resign, but I am going to resign to you. You're clearly of the mindset that each towny is a little island and we're not allowed to pool thoughts or work together at all, because of the risk that it could be a scum island instead.
-
There's a solution, it just isn't logical. My leading theory is that 2.7 took an awesomesauce guess.
Not good enough. Why did he feel compelled to make an awesomesauce guess? Why couldn't he have just stuck with something closer to the truth? Do you really think that his awesomesauce guess was actually a guess. Someone can do the odds of getting both #s right. But I am guessing they are in the extremely low probability range.
Can you assume I'm town who was slot 19 and bid on slot #13 for just a second. Put yourself in my shoes.
What type of 'logical solution' could you come up with?
I think you're slot 19. I think you bid 13. I also think you're scum.
Thing is, there's 4 options:
e town, RR town
e scum, RR town
e town, RR scum
e scum, RR scum
You want us to believe one of the first two are true. We can all put a story to number four. Why should we believe you?
-
Why should we believe you?
I mean, it's the truth, so that's fun. I've also been as towny as I could be the entire game, and I haven't interacted scummily with 2.7 or Calamitas. If you were to read me at face value, I'd be towny. But 2.7 made sure the crew went down with the ship.
-
Wait. How possible is it that scum 2.7 got slot 13 but was a high bidding guy, like #4, and Calamitas was high as well so he had to guess and hope for the best?
In the scum QT during N0:
Calamitas: Cool! I'm spot 4!
2.7: Awesome dude! I'm spot 5!
Calamitas: Hey, I like numbers and stuff. Since we're both low numbered slot, I'm gonna risk it for the biscuit and take a shot at that sweet, sweet, 2 shot Viggy.
2.7: I like it. Bold and well thought out. I'll go for a safer, more versatile slot like...oh, let's say slot 13. There's a lot of information in the ol' slot 13!
Calamitas: Sounds like a lit plan my dude!
Personally, I don't believe that happened, but it's probably what TWM wants to hear.
-
Sounds good. But why did he claim #19? When he had no way of knowing if someone alive still had a chance of having it and counter claiming him.
-
Sounds good. But why did he claim #19? When he had no way of knowing if someone alive still had a chance of having it and counter claiming him.
Calculated risk. And he knew that if he died, you guys would lynch the real #19 for being a partner.
Remember what 2.7 said? "I like it. Bold and well thought out." This plan would be both bold and well thought out.
-
Sounds good. But why did he claim #19? When he had no way of knowing if someone alive still had a chance of having it and counter claiming him.
Calculated risk. And he knew that if he died, you guys would lynch the real #19 for being a partner.
Remember what 2.7 said? "I like it. Bold and well thought out." This plan would be both bold and well thought out.
Ok. So I'll help a bit here.
When you claimed, how many other slots had already been established? How calculated of a risk was it? Let's go find out.
-
Sounds good. But why did he claim #19? When he had no way of knowing if someone alive still had a chance of having it and counter claiming him.
Calculated risk. And he knew that if he died, you guys would lynch the real #19 for being a partner.
Remember what 2.7 said? "I like it. Bold and well thought out." This plan would be both bold and well thought out.
Ok. So I'll help a bit here.
When you claimed, how many other slots had already been established? How calculated of a risk was it? Let's go find out.
Thanks for coming onto my island :)
-
2.7 claimed at post 2991.
Before that we had the following information (thanks to faust compiling just a few posts above).
faust - 1, 2-shot Vig (Slot 1)
LaLight - 5, VT
sudgy - 7, VT
Dylan32 - 8, VT
Jimmmmm - 9, non-VT
Awaclus - 10, VT
iguanaiguana - 11, VT
ashersky - 12, non-VT
JReggie - 14, VT
JaketheBaseballGod22 - 17, non-VT
SpaceAnemone - 18, VT
Galzria - 20, Jailkeeper (Slot 11)
O - 21, VT
2.71828..... - ?, VT
pingpongsam - ?, Restless Sheeper
RoadRunner - ?, VT
The_Wine_Merchant - ?, Hider (Slot 10)
mcmcsalot - ?, Hammer Hero (Slot 9)
Dead and unclaimed:
AndrewisFTTW - ?, VT
gkrieg - ?, VT
Calamitas - ?, Mafia Goon
Eevee - ?, Masonic Lover or VT
Cuzz - ?, VT
There were 5 players that had not yet claimed their draft position or what they went for. 2.7, PPS, RR, TWM, mcmcsalot.
3 of those are claimed PRs. So they probably aren't slot 19. That only leaves you. So there is one player that could also be slot 19. Looking at the list, the bottom of the list has 17, 18, 20 and 21 already taken. So that leaves 19 and 22 as the ones that are left.
2.7 would have to think that you are likely either #19 or #22. It is unlikely (as we go further down the list), but still possible that you could be one of the tops, #6, #11, #13 or #15.
So realistically he could have picked probably 15, 19 or 22 without running into much trouble about why he didn't get a slot that he said he picked. He happened to pick 19. That is relatively reasonable.
So, the question then becomes, does this become a calculated risk? And why does he have to make it in the first place
-
Why should we believe you?
I mean, it's the truth, so that's fun. I've also been as towny as I could be the entire game, and I haven't interacted scummily with 2.7 or Calamitas. If you were to read me at face value, I'd be towny. But 2.7 made sure the crew went down with the ship.
"It's the truth", or "Because I'm town!" don't really mean much here. In LyLo, this gambit makes sense. But let's assume we lynch you here, and you flip town. Now we're almost certainly lynching e tomorrow. So what has he gained? A lynched townie? Do you believe that to be worth the sacrifice at this point in the game? A 1:1 trade?
-
Does anyone have any plausible theories regarding the e/RR thing?
I do
Who did you shoot at last night?
-
work and dinner and stuff. I will get back to this later.
-
Why should we believe you?
I mean, it's the truth, so that's fun. I've also been as towny as I could be the entire game, and I haven't interacted scummily with 2.7 or Calamitas. If you were to read me at face value, I'd be towny. But 2.7 made sure the crew went down with the ship.
"It's the truth", or "Because I'm town!" don't really mean much here. In LyLo, this gambit makes sense. But let's assume we lynch you here, and you flip town. Now we're almost certainly lynching e tomorrow. So what has he gained? A lynched townie? Do you believe that to be worth the sacrifice at this point in the game? A 1:1 trade?
More stuff has happened, it's not just the truth anymore. I mean it is, but you know.
-
work and dinner and stuff. I will get back to this later.
So.....
-
work and dinner and stuff. I will get back to this later.
So.....
I ended up not getting back to it last night.
I don't actually know why RR counterclaimed me. My only thought is that he was a lower position that got a PR, didn't actually want to claim what he really got, ended up selecting a position that was further up hopefully from someone that was dead. I mean, if would have been the perfect fake claim... if I didn't actually have the slot that he picked.
-
work and dinner and stuff. I will get back to this later.
So.....
I ended up not getting back to it last night.
I don't actually know why RR counterclaimed me. My only thought is that he was a lower position that got a PR, didn't actually want to claim what he really got, ended up selecting a position that was further up hopefully from someone that was dead. I mean, if would have been the perfect fake claim... if I didn't actually have the slot that he picked.
But it still puts him in an unnecessary 1v1 and with the amount of people left in the game that's unhelpful for scum. If he is scum and you are town we can easily lynch you both. Also if your town why does scum!rr pick a vt to counterclaim. This is actually an amazing use of a vanilla townie.
-
So....
are we gonna finish the claiming/Ashersky's big reveal before or after we lynch these two?
the pace has kinda slowed to a crawl just when it got juicy.
-
So....
are we gonna finish the claiming/Ashersky's big reveal before or after we lynch these two?
the pace has kinda slowed to a crawl just when it got juicy.
I think we should go ahead and lynch RR. It is hard to just keep going and ignore these things
-
So....
are we gonna finish the claiming/Ashersky's big reveal before or after we lynch these two?
I think we really have to finish the claims, but ash is nowhere to be seen!
Iguana said he'd continue with the claiming "in the morning" even if we hadn't heard anything from ash. I guess it's still morning in US timezones...
If it takes much longer, we could consider bumping LL's place up, given that he's ~7 hours ahead of forum time and it would probably be better not to have to hold everything off overnight if we don't have to. I don't like giving in to any potential scum delaying tactics, though!
-
So....
are we gonna finish the claiming/Ashersky's big reveal before or after we lynch these two?
the pace has kinda slowed to a crawl just when it got juicy.
I think we should go ahead and lynch RR. It is hard to just keep going and ignore these things
You realize if he flips scum we lynch you and if he flips town we lynch you, right?
-
So....
are we gonna finish the claiming/Ashersky's big reveal before or after we lynch these two?
the pace has kinda slowed to a crawl just when it got juicy.
I think we should go ahead and lynch RR. It is hard to just keep going and ignore these things
You realize if he flips scum we lynch you and if he flips town we lynch you, right?
I mean, maybe not, but I agree with TWM that "guessing" both the slot and the draft is highly unlikely and that reading a shared QT stands to reason.
-
So....
are we gonna finish the claiming/Ashersky's big reveal before or after we lynch these two?
I think we really have to finish the claims, but ash is nowhere to be seen!
Iguana said he'd continue with the claiming "in the morning" even if we hadn't heard anything from ash. I guess it's still morning in US timezones...
If it takes much longer, we could consider bumping LL's place up, given that he's ~7 hours ahead of forum time and it would probably be better not to have to hold everything off overnight if we don't have to. I don't like giving in to any potential scum delaying tactics, though!
Ash is in NZ or AU I thought....
-
So....
are we gonna finish the claiming/Ashersky's big reveal before or after we lynch these two?
the pace has kinda slowed to a crawl just when it got juicy.
I think we should go ahead and lynch RR. It is hard to just keep going and ignore these things
You realize if he flips scum we lynch you and if he flips town we lynch you, right?
Do I realize this....eh. Do i think I Will be able to prevent my lynch when he flips scum....yes.
-
doesn't Faust claim to have a vig shot left?
meh ill shut up and not direct claimed PRs (while still hitting the post button)
-
2.7, it's time to stop.
PPE
-
2.7, it's time to stop.
PPE
Never
-
doesn't Faust claim to have a vig shot left?
meh ill shut up and not direct claimed PRs (while still hitting the post button)
I think he said he spent them all.
-
I admit, my case right now is on very tenuous ground. I thunk it will be much more clear once RR flips and we see a little more clearly what end-game he was playing at
-
I can claim what slot i bid, it's not breaking news. Should i?
-
I can claim what slot i bid, it's not breaking news. Should i?
I don't see a problem with that.
-
I was 5th, bid on slot #1 (2-shot vig fwiw) because thought that the first 4 will take HH and alignment cop :(
-
So who got slot 13? We have three people saying they tried for it, but didn't get it.
If Dylan is telling the truth it has to be someone with a pick above number 8.
-
So who got slot 13? We have three people saying they tried for it, but didn't get it.
If Dylan is telling the truth it has to be someone with a pick above number 8.
I guess one of E/RR?
-
So who got slot 13? We have three people saying they tried for it, but didn't get it.
If Dylan is telling the truth it has to be someone with a pick above number 8.
I guess one of E/RR?
If I were to hazard a guess, this.
The best explanation I can come up with right now is that 2.7 had a higher draft pick (I'm inclined to believe RR actually had draft 19), picked slot 13 and won. But he didn't want to admit that so he claimed draft 19 knowing that it would've failed.
If I were to hazard a guess, he probably misremembered and thought 19 was Cal's draft slot when in fact it was RR's.
-
Apparently I like to hazard guesses. That's my brain without coffee for you. Time to go fix that.
-
So who got slot 13? We have three people saying they tried for it, but didn't get it.
If Dylan is telling the truth it has to be someone with a pick above number 8.
I guess one of E/RR?
If I were to hazard a guess, this.
The best explanation I can come up with right now is that 2.7 had a higher draft pick (I'm inclined to believe RR actually had draft 19), picked slot 13 and won. But he didn't want to admit that so he claimed draft 19 knowing that it would've failed.
If I were to hazard a guess, he probably misremembered and thought 19 was Cal's draft slot when in fact it was RR's.
The other option is that e is actually draft 19, and rr who was higher planned on claiming cal's spot and misremembered and claimed 19 as well.
I agree it's more likely 2.7 is the scum but since there's a chance they both are and they both claimed vt's it's probably still worth lynching rr after 2.7 even if 2.7 flips scum.
-
So who got slot 13? We have three people saying they tried for it, but didn't get it.
If Dylan is telling the truth it has to be someone with a pick above number 8.
I guess one of E/RR?
If I were to hazard a guess, this.
The best explanation I can come up with right now is that 2.7 had a higher draft pick (I'm inclined to believe RR actually had draft 19), picked slot 13 and won. But he didn't want to admit that so he claimed draft 19 knowing that it would've failed.
If I were to hazard a guess, he probably misremembered and thought 19 was Cal's draft slot when in fact it was RR's.
The other option is that e is actually draft 19, and rr who was higher planned on claiming cal's spot and misremembered and claimed 19 as well.
I agree it's more likely 2.7 is the scum but since there's a chance they both are and they both claimed vt's it's probably still worth lynching rr after 2.7 even if 2.7 flips scum.
There's a solution, it just isn't logical. My leading theory is that 2.7 took an awesomesauce guess.
Not good enough. Why did he feel compelled to make an awesomesauce guess? Why couldn't he have just stuck with something closer to the truth? Do you really think that his awesomesauce guess was actually a guess. Someone can do the odds of getting both #s right. But I am guessing they are in the extremely low probability range.
Can you assume I'm town who was slot 19 and bid on slot #13 for just a second. Put yourself in my shoes.
What type of 'logical solution' could you come up with?
I think you're slot 19. I think you bid 13. I also think you're scum.
Sorry, may not have been clear. I think RR is telling the truth about being 19, I just think he's scum too.
-
@Galz: Oh yea, what you said
-
Vote Count 3.6
iguanaiguana (1): 2.71828......
ashersky (2): O, sudgy
sudgy (1): Dylan32
2.71828...... (6): RoadRunner7671, The_Wine_Merchant, LaLight, faust, pingpongsam, Galzria
RoadRunner7671 (1): JaketheBaseballGod22
Not Voting (6): ashersky, SpaceAnemone, Awaclus, iguanaiguana, Jimmmmm, mcmcsalot
With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch. Day 3 ends on Monday, June 5th, at 5:00 PM Forum Time.
-
Wow, e isn't even voting for RR?
-
Wow, e isn't even voting for RR?
Yea he didn't like iguana making us claim in the first place.
-
So without Iguana or Ash around right now, Faust out on V/LA, and my going dark as of this evening...
Should we proceed with anything else, or just continue to wait?
-
Vote Count 3.6
iguanaiguana (1): 2.71828......
ashersky (2): O, sudgy
sudgy (1): Dylan32
2.71828...... (6): RoadRunner7671, The_Wine_Merchant, LaLight, faust, pingpongsam, Galzria
RoadRunner7671 (1): JaketheBaseballGod22
Not Voting (6): ashersky, SpaceAnemone, Awaclus, iguanaiguana, Jimmmmm, mcmcsalot
With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch. Day 3 ends on Monday, June 5th, at 5:00 PM Forum Time.
We've got till Monday at 5pm, so we can probably wait.
-
Wow this game is dead right now.
-
Wow this game is dead right now.
Well we know like 2 or 3 of the mafia members, have a bunch of pseudo ic's and ash is the serial killer who has no way to win due to hammerhero/hider so he's sorta wishes Mafia would forfeit. I don't know where iguana is. Also we're on page 130, everyone's heads start to hurt. This is why I wanted to end day one like 40 pages before we did. Claiming has sadly taken like 20 pages.
-
I am with mcmc. It would be nice if ash claimed. But given that he hasn't, I would rather just move on with this day and lynch 2.7.
If 2.7 is not the 1-shot Bus Driver I will:
Roll a dice, if x I will hide behind mcmc, if y I will hide behind iguana, if z I will hide behind Space. I won't reveal what the odds of these are, but I will assure you that they aren't equal.
I won't reveal what I did tomorrow and will rinse and repeat the next night (with new people, aside from mcmc to potentially hide behind) and share all of my actions Day 5.
If 2.7 is 1-shot Bus Driver I will just hide behind mcmc.
If mcmc doesn't get the hammer for some reason I will roll a dice and either not hide, hide behind Space or hide behind iguana.
My suggestion is to get the mcmc hammer thing going. I have already voted, so can't participate. mcmc can say when he is actually ready though, but I am about to check out of this game for the weekend. I am not VLA, just not going to be checking often at this point.
-
Since TWM is already on the wagon, I'll try to stay online as much as possible to try to coordinate with mcmc if possible and desired.
-
I can vote 2.7 now
-
Since TWM is already on the wagon, I'll try to stay online as much as possible to try to coordinate with mcmc if possible and desired.
After Ash claims of course unless it ends up taking way too long for him to do so.
-
I believe it is his night now and he has been online in the time that was set for him to claim. Maybe he was just busy, but I thought given he had a big reveal he would have wanted to make sure to share it. Now I am not sure I really care what the big reveal is.
-
Now that he's taken so long, I think ash was just trying to stall with his claim comment. I'm fine voting e.
-
Well, we have time. Why not wait?
-
Now that he's taken so long, I think ash was just trying to stall with his claim comment. I'm fine voting e.
I don't think it's likely that someone who is under serious suspicion because of previous night actions would say something that would bring a ton of attention and anticipation toward his claim in order to buy time. I would think something downplaying it or just "too busy, I'll share later" would be the better way to do that. The hype just ensures everyone is paying attention to your claim, which scum probably doesn't normally want.
-
I had an all day interview today. I also forgot to log on at all this morning. Sorry, that was lame of me.
Like apparently a lot of people, I bid for slot 13. I didn't think about the info that it grants you so to me it just looked like an average slot and maybe one that no one high would bid for.
-
I'm dark from here on out. Emergency with work. 120 students+ planning on attending a swim meet tomorrow and the pool was just closed due to a Senior Prank. In "oh ****" mode.
I'll talk to you all after this weekend. Leaving my vote on 2.7
-
@Galz, many sympathies for your panic there! Best of luck.
@ash, you've posted in the VLA without saying a single thing here.. that doesn't look good at all.
@everyone-other-than-ash: the VLA doesn't say anything about ash being away for Sunday.. do we want to hold out and wait to see what he says (if he says anything!), or take it as evidence of non-towniness and just proceed with e for today?
@TWM & @mcmc, am I right that you two have yet to claim bidding order? It would be good to put that onto the summary so that we can see the gaps where scum must be/have been lurking.
-
@TWM & @mcmc, am I right that you two have yet to claim bidding order? It would be good to put that onto the summary so that we can see the gaps where scum must be/have been lurking.
wouldn't we want them to hold those to potentially counterclaim?
-
@Galz, many sympathies for your panic there! Best of luck.
@ash, you've posted in the VLA without saying a single thing here.. that doesn't look good at all.
@everyone-other-than-ash: the VLA doesn't say anything about ash being away for Sunday.. do we want to hold out and wait to see what he says (if he says anything!), or take it as evidence of non-towniness and just proceed with e for today?
@TWM & @mcmc, am I right that you two have yet to claim bidding order? It would be good to put that onto the summary so that we can see the gaps where scum must be/have been lurking.
I actually think we're good enough without ash's claim
-
I'd just end the Day whenever mcmc's around.
-
I'll accept ash's VLA at face value. Questionong VLAs is not something i want to atart doing. But I think he needs to share how stuff first thing tomorrow or risk bring lynched for it, even above RR.
-
@Galz, many sympathies for your panic there! Best of luck.
@ash, you've posted in the VLA without saying a single thing here.. that doesn't look good at all.
@everyone-other-than-ash: the VLA doesn't say anything about ash being away for Sunday.. do we want to hold out and wait to see what he says (if he says anything!), or take it as evidence of non-towniness and just proceed with e for today?
@TWM & @mcmc, am I right that you two have yet to claim bidding order? It would be good to put that onto the summary so that we can see the gaps where scum must be/have been lurking.
I'll put mine down given there is a chance I die tonight.
I was bid order position #13 and went for slot #10.
-
I do think we can wait for ash to say stuff tomorrow and then we can lynch 2.7
-
I'll accept ash's VLA at face value. Questionong VLAs is not something i want to atart doing. But I think he needs to share how stuff first thing tomorrow or risk bring lynched for it, even above RR.
I'm not questioning his VLA, just the time leading up to him announcing it. During that time, some of us in this game were clearly waiting to hear what he had to say, but he was online several times, posted elsewhere on the forum, and said nothing about the claims. That's what I think is questionable.
-
I'll accept ash's VLA at face value. Questionong VLAs is not something i want to atart doing. But I think he needs to share how stuff first thing tomorrow or risk bring lynched for it, even above RR.
I'm not questioning his VLA, just the time leading up to him announcing it. During that time, some of us in this game were clearly waiting to hear what he had to say, but he was online several times, posted elsewhere on the forum, and said nothing about the claims. That's what I think is questionable.
that just happens. I wouldn't read too much into it.
-
It doesn't look great for Ash but it's good news for us and no harm in waiting until Monday to lynch as long as mcmc can be around.
-
I do think we can wait for ash to say stuff tomorrow and then we can lynch 2.7
Or, how about NOT lynch me, and lynch someone else. Say, iguanaiguana for being obv!scum
-
I'll accept ash's VLA at face value. Questionong VLAs is not something i want to atart doing. But I think he needs to share how stuff first thing tomorrow or risk bring lynched for it, even above RR.
I'm not questioning his VLA, just the time leading up to him announcing it. During that time, some of us in this game were clearly waiting to hear what he had to say, but he was online several times, posted elsewhere on the forum, and said nothing about the claims. That's what I think is questionable.
that just happens. I wouldn't read too much into it.
So which one of you is designated to steal the hammer?
-
I do think we can wait for ash to say stuff tomorrow and then we can lynch 2.7
Or, how about NOT lynch me, and lynch someone else. Say, iguanaiguana for being obv!scum
Or RR for counterclaiming you?
-
I do think we can wait for ash to say stuff tomorrow and then we can lynch 2.7
Or, how about NOT lynch me, and lynch someone else. Say, iguanaiguana for being obv!scum
Or RR for counterclaiming you?
Yeah, through all of this, the biggest question mark is why haven't you (a) voted for RR or (b) even really suggested that he should be the lynch. By rule, at least one of the two of you is lying, and if you are telling the truth, why wouldn't you even at least act like you want RR lynched?
-
I mean, TWM already pointed out how they won't vote for each other even before this happened.
I'm gonna go with a Vote: iguanaiguana
I think one of him or 2.7 are scum.
Then vote 2.7.
Also partner alert if 2.7 flips scum.
-
I mean, TWM already pointed out how they won't vote for each other even before this happened.
I'm gonna go with a Vote: iguanaiguana
I think one of him or 2.7 are scum.
Then vote 2.7.
Also partner alert if 2.7 flips scum.
Oh oh oh. I am a smarty aren't I? Thanks for point that out, I wouldn't have remembered that.
-
I mean, yeah, I can vote: rr
-
Survived d1 on my "LA" this weekend. I'm caught up with reading, but it doesn't seem like much has happened. Going to bed now.
-
The silence continues.
vote: ashersky
-
How about we lynch e today and ashersky tomorrow?
-
How about we lynch e today and ashersky tomorrow?
Yeah, I mean, the wagon is already established on e. Trying to switch to ash this late is silly. Yeah, he's probably the SK but maybe he hits scum for us, right?
-
I was Lon lynching e yesterday but everyone thought we should give ash a chance to claim. That obviously went really well.
I'll lynch 2.7 but think we should auto lynch ash tomorrow and not even give him a chance to claim.
-
I was Lon lynching e yesterday but everyone thought we should give ash a chance to claim. That obviously went really well.
You seem upset about the wait, but I think it was the correct play for us. We've given him the benefit of the doubt a bit, and now if he comes back and tries to claim that he was just busy, he has much less of a leg to stand on with that.
I'll lynch 2.7 but think we should auto lynch ash tomorrow and not even give him a chance to claim.
I'm not comfortable with the immediate auto-lynch idea, but mainly just because I wouldn't want to promise not to consider any new info from night actions/flips between now and the start of D4. I do get that your overarching plan for hiding would work best with a small and largely pre-determined D4, though.
-
Sorry a hectic real life kept me from a fake game.
If it matters so much, replace me.
I pop on to see this? I'm back in 12 hours.
-
I was Lon lynching e yesterday but everyone thought we should give ash a chance to claim. That obviously went really well.
I'll lynch 2.7 but think we should auto lynch ash tomorrow and not even give him a chance to claim.
What about RR? How do you feel about him compared to Ash right now?
-
I was Lon lynching e yesterday but everyone thought we should give ash a chance to claim. That obviously went really well.
I'll lynch 2.7 but think we should auto lynch ash tomorrow and not even give him a chance to claim.
This from the guy who screamed at me for daring to question the timing of you changing your night action. chill out man
-
I was Lon lynching e yesterday but everyone thought we should give ash a chance to claim. That obviously went really well.
I'll lynch 2.7 but think we should auto lynch ash tomorrow and not even give him a chance to claim.
This from the guy who screamed at me for daring to question the timing of you changing your night action. chill out man
I just now realized TWM said we shouldn't even let him claim. If he is conf!scum to you, sure, but if he really does have info that would incriminate most of the rest of scum, why kill him before he answers? I really hope he claims before night so that he isn't killed by either the other scum team/any scum afraid of his claim without us hearing what he has to say. There's enough of the game left that it isn't like letting him claim is going to put us in a LYLO WIFOM situation on believing him or not, so why should we not let him claim?
-
Sorry a hectic real life kept me from a fake game.
If it matters so much, replace me.
I pop on to see this? I'm back in 12 hours.
That is all you had to say bud.
vote
-
unvote it should be.
-
Vote: 2.71828.....
It's getting close enough. I think that's L-3.
-
deadline is very close
-
e (6): RoadRunner7671, LaLight, faust, pingpongsam, Galzria, sudgy (L-3)
If mcmc's around I can put it to L-2 or 1.
-
e (6): RoadRunner7671, LaLight, faust, pingpongsam, Galzria, sudgy (L-3)
If mcmc's around I can put it to L-2 or 1.
I'm also around-ish for the next few hours, and definitely willing to vote e.
I'll be afk from just before noon forum time because my a cappella group has some studio recording time. I hope we'll be finished before the deadline, otherwise I'll have no voice for the next week or two :-P
-
I am here, but not caught up on the last however many pages -- just skimmed some the more recent stuff yesterday.
If someone can tell me if there's more to the RR/2.7 thing than I'm understanding, I'd appreciate it. They both claimed the exact same draft position and slot, correct? And neither has even tried to correct themselves? So one has to be lying.
So that's nice.
As for my information, I can still claim, although deadline is much closer than I expected. I am directly countering someone, and I believe it very strongly suggests the existence of WWs (instead of just an SK) and who one or both are.
While that's important, if it isn't going to change the outcome of today's lynch (my info does not touch on RR/2.7), it seems better to save the info until tomorrow for a few reasons:
--if you think I'm lying, I'm easily blocked or dead tonight anyway
--if I die, my flip will tell you everything you need to know anyway
I'm going to go catch up now, as much as I can for now.
-
I have a counterclaim thing of sorts, if folks want to kill the massclaim now. Plenty of info already.
I dunno... if we get all the VTs to claim slots, then we could force out other errors. I'd prefer we complete the exercise rather than leaving it half-done with all this info out there already for scum.
Catching up from my last post. I'm assuming this didn't happen?
-
Side bar: Jake's tracker claim happened, got called out as convenient, and then nothing? I guess I'll see.
(I saw TWM's call out at the top of the page where my last post was.)
-
I can tell I'm gonna have to fight for my life to get 2.7 lynched then fight for my life again to convince you guys this isn't a scum mishap. I've never been counterclaimed before.
But you guys don't give me enough credit. I wouldn't accidentally counterclaim my partner, I'm not that bad at beinh scum.
Do you think e is?
No. That's what I'm saying. This isn't a scum mishap, we're both #2good
This seems super unbelievable. Like, why wouldn't town be going hard after the other claimant? There's no good town narrative for an accidental claim like this. The town one in this argument should be going super hard at the other.
-
So one of rr/2.7 has to be scum at least correct? That's good.
Yeah, though the fact that they gave exactly the same claim suggests they got it from the same place, so I'm suspicious of both of them. RR could just have copied e, but he seemed surprised at the matching, so I think it's more likely they both got it from the scum QT. It's also telling that they (along with Jimmmmm) were the ones who managed to "forget" or "not quite understand" about claiming bidding order in the first round of claims.
I'll point this out as a tremendous example of IIoA. When the game ends, it should be in the mafia definition.
They point out all the data about the claims and such, but never take a stance on who is scummy for it. Take a stand, yo.
-
@Jake
And why ash and gkrieg?
Still want this answered.
Oh sorry. I felt gkrieg was being sorta different on D1 which was why I did him. I originally chose Faust N2 but later changed it to ashersky later on because I was checking to see if he was the sk.
You say that like you know for sure there's an SK...
Are you suggesting that his using SK doesn't provide for differentiation between SK and WW? Because there is certainly one or the other:
"Setup
This game includes 5 Mafia, 17 Townies, and 1 Odd-Night Bulletproof Serial Killer. The Serial Killer is automatically Odd-Night Bulletproof, regardless of whether the SK receives an additional PR from the slots. This causes the Serial Killer to survive a night kill on odd-numbered nights".
Seems a silly thing to call him on. I think most people use them interchangeably until we know for certain which is in the game.
I was pushing to see what he'd say, given what I think I know. Your response is interesting on his behalf, what with the setup post quote to make sure we all know you are just sharing public knowledge and not something you might know for yourself.
So, yes, it was a "silly thing" to call him on, in a sense, but not in the way you are insinuating. Also, I don't think anyone would interchangeably use the two terms on purpose.
-
Ok, since I'm not sure how much I'll be able to be on later today (maybe a lot, maybe almost none), I'll go ahead and go rather than waiting for Jimmmmm.
To repeat, VT, bid #8. I bid on slot 13 and did not get it.
Preliminary Vote: e pending official vote count. Don't want to run it up too high before claim is done. I do think both RR and e are likely scum. That's seems to be the most likely explanation.
That would mean the winner of slot 13 came from bids #2, #3, #4 or #6 based off current knowledge --- with both 2.7 and RR claiming to have bid on the slot from #19.
Not calling your claim out here - but does anybody from top 6 really go for slot 13? Seems crazy to me.
I would go for the 13 spot if I had gotten #1. Getting to see 3 roles gives you so much information, you have your pick of roles from multiple slots and I love the random aspect personally.
This is such a sensible post by Jake here, showing he put in a lot of thought to the whole process.
Or his mafia teammates did.
-
Caught up through page 124. Back as soon as I can.
-
I am here, but not caught up on the last however many pages -- just skimmed some the more recent stuff yesterday.
If someone can tell me if there's more to the RR/2.7 thing than I'm understanding, I'd appreciate it. They both claimed the exact same draft position and slot, correct? And neither has even tried to correct themselves? So one has to be lying.
So that's nice.
As for my information, I can still claim, although deadline is much closer than I expected. I am directly countering someone, and I believe it very strongly suggests the existence of WWs (instead of just an SK) and who one or both are.
While that's important, if it isn't going to change the outcome of today's lynch (my info does not touch on RR/2.7), it seems better to save the info until tomorrow for a few reasons:
--if you think I'm lying, I'm easily blocked or dead tonight anyway
--if I die, my flip will tell you everything you need to know anyway
I'm going to go catch up now, as much as I can for now.
Yes you claim. YOu're not going to weasel yourself out of the massclaim. Vote: ashersky
-
So the scum plan seems to be to have ashersky divert votes off the obvscum wagon enough to disrupt the mcmc hammer.
-
Yea ash sorry but we need you to claim. I still don't want to lynch anyone other than 2.7 today and we have 8 hours till deadline.
request vote count
I have given you lots and lots of time to claim and you keep not doing it, I'm looking to end the day soon and if it has to be without your claim you are going to be under lots of suspicion tommorow.
-
Yea ash sorry but we need you to claim. I still don't want to lynch anyone other than 2.7 today and we have 8 hours till deadline.
request vote count
I have given you lots and lots of time to claim and you keep not doing it, I'm looking to end the day soon and if it has to be without your claim you are going to be under lots of suspicion tommorow.
I think this is a terrible idea. If you are already going to lynch me, then the only people that benefit from this additional information is scum. And town PRs, somewhat, but really not enough to merit extra claims
-
Yea ash sorry but we need you to claim. I still don't want to lynch anyone other than 2.7 today and we have 8 hours till deadline.
request vote count
I have given you lots and lots of time to claim and you keep not doing it, I'm looking to end the day soon and if it has to be without your claim you are going to be under lots of suspicion tommorow.
I think this is a terrible idea. If you are already going to lynch me, then the only people that benefit from this additional information is scum. And town PRs, somewhat, but really not enough to merit extra claims
Not true at all. The benefit of getting the massclaim finished this day is that we expect to have fewer people alive tomorrow, and therefore a smaller pot of counterclaiming townies to stand in the way of scums. We absolutely should finish the claims today, including ash's one. Anything else is not giving town as much information as we could have to work with.
-
Yea ash sorry but we need you to claim. I still don't want to lynch anyone other than 2.7 today and we have 8 hours till deadline.
request vote count
I have given you lots and lots of time to claim and you keep not doing it, I'm looking to end the day soon and if it has to be without your claim you are going to be under lots of suspicion tommorow.
This is not a great post.
To say I "keep not doing it" is unfair, as I've only been around rarely, and have explained when I am here.
As for being under suspicion tomorrow, that's fine.
The two posts after this are a point/counterpoint to the value of having my claim on board are useful.
-
Yes you claim. YOu're not going to weasel yourself out of the massclaim. Vote: ashersky
You are the last (or second-to-last) person who I will listen to, given what I know.
-
Yea ash sorry but we need you to claim. I still don't want to lynch anyone other than 2.7 today and we have 8 hours till deadline.
request vote count
I have given you lots and lots of time to claim and you keep not doing it, I'm looking to end the day soon and if it has to be without your claim you are going to be under lots of suspicion tommorow.
Also, looking to end the day soon is an understatement -- the day ends in less than 12 hours anyway.
I'm in the enviable position of having useful information that confirms one scum and maybe two. And, I can die tonight and you still get this information.
This isn't a hider not appropriately allowing for town to know who I hid behind and dying without use. This isn't a cop getting a result they can only share with the spectator QT.
I'm found money at this point. The information I've leaked has me in scum's crosshairs, but they know killing me will out them definitively.
Basically, I've lived up to my proclamation from the beginning of the game. I'll need to thank Jimmmmm (of all people) in my MVP acceptance speech.
-
Absolutely love ashersky's play here
-
So let's lynch 2.7 then ashersky, and let's not screw up the wagons in the process.
-
Yea ash sorry but we need you to claim. I still don't want to lynch anyone other than 2.7 today and we have 8 hours till deadline.
request vote count
I have given you lots and lots of time to claim and you keep not doing it, I'm looking to end the day soon and if it has to be without your claim you are going to be under lots of suspicion tommorow.
Also, looking to end the day soon is an understatement -- the day ends in less than 12 hours anyway.
I'm in the enviable position of having useful information that confirms one scum and maybe two. And, I can die tonight and you still get this information.
This isn't a hider not appropriately allowing for town to know who I hid behind and dying without use. This isn't a cop getting a result they can only share with the spectator QT.
I'm found money at this point. The information I've leaked has me in scum's crosshairs, but they know killing me will out them definitively.
Basically, I've lived up to my proclamation from the beginning of the game. I'll need to thank Jimmmmm (of all people) in my MVP acceptance speech.
Vote: Ashersky
-
Yea ash sorry but we need you to claim. I still don't want to lynch anyone other than 2.7 today and we have 8 hours till deadline.
request vote count
I have given you lots and lots of time to claim and you keep not doing it, I'm looking to end the day soon and if it has to be without your claim you are going to be under lots of suspicion tommorow.
Also, looking to end the day soon is an understatement -- the day ends in less than 12 hours anyway.
I'm in the enviable position of having useful information that confirms one scum and maybe two. And, I can die tonight and you still get this information.
This isn't a hider not appropriately allowing for town to know who I hid behind and dying without use. This isn't a cop getting a result they can only share with the spectator QT.
I'm found money at this point. The information I've leaked has me in scum's crosshairs, but they know killing me will out them definitively.
Basically, I've lived up to my proclamation from the beginning of the game. I'll need to thank Jimmmmm (of all people) in my MVP acceptance speech.
Vote: Ashersky
The scum plan is working.
-
So let's lynch 2.7 then ashersky, and let's not screw up the wagons in the process.
Ashersky is town through. Like, obviously town. Like the proponents of the mass claim said, it is a losing proposition for scum to have so many counter claims.
Oh, and I am town too
-
Side bar: Jake's tracker claim happened, got called out as convenient, and then nothing? I guess I'll see.
(I saw TWM's call out at the top of the page where my last post was.)
I called it out and haven't forgotten because your stuff and the RR e thing was bigger.
And Vote: ash
-
So let's lynch 2.7 then ashersky, and let's not screw up the wagons in the process.
Ashersky is town through. Like, obviously town. Like the proponents of the mass claim said, it is a losing proposition for scum to have so many counter claims.
Oh, and I am town too
Screw that I want to vote e. he has been scummy all game. where are we there? Almost voted and could have messed everything up. Ha.
-
Vote: ashersky
-
Ok. Think we are good. I am at work all day. Vote: 2.7but ash should still claim if he can.
-
Guessing. 2.7 is the bus driver and still has his shot and they want him to be able to use it tonight.
-
Guessing. 2.7 is the bus driver and still has his shot and they want him to be able to use it tonight.
Wrong
But yeah, I did win slot 13 and chose convert SK to survivor.
All you guys thinking I am regular scum are way off. No way I make a mistake like not claiming Calamitas' spot as regular scum. Give me more credit than that. I know we lynch the survivor, which is why I didn't want to claim my role, and I also didn't want scum to know I was the survivor, so I had to guess for a dead townies role. And I almost got away with it.
-
Ash thinking he has information regarding werewolves is totally bogus. I can attest to that
-
but sure,
vote: e
confirmed scum, lynch me and get the hammer. You can kill mcmc tonight and out yourself.
good luck.
I will probably get lynched anyway.
-
wait,
vote: ashersky
I am only at L-2
-
because of faust.
I am literally just trying to survive here. Haha
-
But yeah, I did win slot 13 and chose convert SK to survivor.
Were you #19?
-
I mean, yeah. I could have outed myself to scum. that would have been the smart play. Then I could win on either side. Except, scum is going to lose this game and I don't want to win.
My claiming strategy revolved around playing to win, not playing to just come in second place.
And it was fun, having the suspense and intrigue of totally guessing at a dead person's slot (and educated guess, but still a guess)
-
But yeah, I did win slot 13 and chose convert SK to survivor.
Were you #19?
No, RR is obv!town. Like I posted much earlier in the game
-
which is what made it so hard to fight him on the claim.
I was hoping that IF I did accidentally claim the wrong spot it would be against scum, and it would be against someone I could beat in a battle of the wits and posts.
But I can't beat obv!town RR and that surprise with which he posted
-
Wait what! I think this is likely a last minute ploy to get 2.7 off the lynch.
You are claiming to have lied about your draft position but still that you or slot 13? Why not just claim your draft spot and slot 13?
-
I was bid order 6, slot 13
-
I was bid order 6, slot 13
So why not claim that? And claim a townie power from slot 13.
-
I got choices of
bus-driver
convert SK to survivor
alignment cop
-
Survivor is not great for town anyway we are still lynching 2.7, I don't think I believe any of this.
-
Wait what! I think this is likely a last minute ploy to get 2.7 off the lynch.
Regardless, I think we still lynch him. I'm willing to do it now if you are.
-
I was bid order 6, slot 13
So why not claim that? And claim a townie power from slot 13.
because then scum knows who I am. ONLY the SK can get the "convert SK" roles. I would be giving away that I am the survivor to scum. I didn't want to do that.
And scum knows all the roles in slots 11-13
-
Wait what! I think this is likely a last minute ploy to get 2.7 off the lynch.
Regardless, I think we still lynch him. I'm willing to do it now if you are.
yes, totally a ploy to try to avoid my lynch.
But it is my own ploy, not a scum ploy
-
well,
survivor is scum (somewhat) so you could say scum ploy
-
maybe e will work with us now? I don't like lynching Survivor
-
request: vote count
-
maybe e will work with us now? I don't like lynching Survivor
I don't either but we have to. He's not 'with us,' he wants to survive.
-
maybe e will work with us now? I don't like lynching Survivor
I don't either but we have to. He's not 'with us,' he wants to survive.
but he will survive if we leave im alone, we still do have plan to win!
that said, vote: ashersky
-
maybe e will work with us now? I don't like lynching Survivor
As e admits, he can work with scum at Lylo (say 2 scum 2 Town 1 Survivor). If it gets to that point he's basically scum. Which means we need him dead, and scum aren't going to kill him for us.
-
Space Count
ashersky (5): O, faust, JaketheBaseballGod22, 2.71828......, LaLight
sudgy (1): Dylan32
2.71828...... (5): RoadRunner7671, pingpongsam, Galzria, sudgy, The_Wine_Merchant
Not Voting (6): ashersky, SpaceAnemone, Awaclus, iguanaiguana, Jimmmmm, mcmcsalot
(Someone else might want to check my numbers -- this game is way too big for me to have my own running count!).
-
maybe e will work with us now? I don't like lynching Survivor
I have always been working with town. Not sure which "us" you are referring to though.
And yeah, my hesitancy to mass claim and such was due to the fact that I knew I would be guessing at a number to say I got in draft order. But I never held up the process or anything. I have consistently worked with town throughout the game.
Not claiming bid order imediately was me just reading into it what I wanted to read. Since I didn't want to claim bid order. Actually was just not reading correctly
-
maybe e will work with us now? I don't like lynching Survivor
As e admits, he can work with scum at Lylo (say 2 scum 2 Town 1 Survivor). If it gets to that point he's basically scum. Which means we need him dead, and scum aren't going to kill him for us.
This is kingmaking. E might decide to work with town in that case
-
Sorry lalight, we A) don't know he's telling the truth, B) survivor is almost always a liability to town. It's far better to lynch him.
-
maybe e will work with us now? I don't like lynching Survivor
As e admits, he can work with scum at Lylo (say 2 scum 2 Town 1 Survivor). If it gets to that point he's basically scum. Which means we need him dead, and scum aren't going to kill him for us.
This is kingmaking. E might decide to work with town in that case
He might. But the right thing for him to do would be to take the win with scum rather than risk being lynched or NKed.
-
My gut wants to vote Ash here, but presumably he just acts like this to be provocative.
I don't know why we should trust that e took "convert SK to Survivor" over one of the other slot 13 options, so I'm still willing to support that lynch, too, and it seems sensible, since either he's the SK, in which case we take out an entire night kill, or he's mafia working with ash. Since ash seems to claim he can implicate probable werewolves, I doubt he's town unless e is mafia, so e is the more informative one to flip.
-
maybe e will work with us now? I don't like lynching Survivor
As e admits, he can work with scum at Lylo (say 2 scum 2 Town 1 Survivor). If it gets to that point he's basically scum. Which means we need him dead, and scum aren't going to kill him for us.
This is kingmaking. E might decide to work with town in that case
He might. But the right thing for him to do would be to take the win with scum rather than risk being lynched or NKed.
Well, in that scenario I could take the win with either group. I would be the king, town and scum my pawns.
But we won't get there
-
My gut wants to vote Ash here, but presumably he just acts like this to be provocative.
I don't know why we should trust that e took "convert SK to Survivor" over one of the other slot 13 options, so I'm still willing to support that lynch, too, and it seems sensible, since either he's the SK, in which case we take out an entire night kill, or he's mafia working with ash. Since ash seems to claim he can implicate probable werewolves, I doubt he's town unless e is mafia, so e is the more informative one to flip.
Sorry -- that should be "either he is/was the SK". I actually believe there's a chance he could be a Survivor here, but I don't think it's a gamble we need to take.
-
maybe e will work with us now? I don't like lynching Survivor
As e admits, he can work with scum at Lylo (say 2 scum 2 Town 1 Survivor). If it gets to that point he's basically scum. Which means we need him dead, and scum aren't going to kill him for us.
This is kingmaking. E might decide to work with town in that case
He might. But the right thing for him to do would be to take the win with scum rather than risk being lynched or NKed.
Well, in that scenario I could take the win with either group. I would be the king, town and scum my pawns.
But we won't get there
You could win with either group if it's 1v1v1. But at 2v2v1 to win with Town you'd have to survive 2 Days and a Night. If I was scum and a claimed Survivor was refusing to work with me for the guaranteed win, I think I'd NK him out of spite.
-
maybe e will work with us now? I don't like lynching Survivor
As e admits, he can work with scum at Lylo (say 2 scum 2 Town 1 Survivor). If it gets to that point he's basically scum. Which means we need him dead, and scum aren't going to kill him for us.
This is kingmaking. E might decide to work with town in that case
He might. But the right thing for him to do would be to take the win with scum rather than risk being lynched or NKed.
Well, in that scenario I could take the win with either group. I would be the king, town and scum my pawns.
But we won't get there
You could win with either group if it's 1v1v1. But at 2v2v1 to win with Town you'd have to survive 2 Days and a Night. If I was scum and a claimed Survivor was refusing to work with me for the guaranteed win, I think I'd NK him out of spite.
exactly. which is why I tried to claim slot 19, VT
I didn't want to out myself to scum. If I claim my actual bid order and slot with nice flowery towny-sounding roles, I out myself to scum, but not town.
Scum then doesn't want to lynch me or kill me and I survive for a while. Until town catches on.
OR I take a risk and try to get a VT fake-claim from a dead player. High risk, high reward, but I don't burn all my bridges with town
-
We need to lynch e, and we need to do it right. Also, I need to go to bed.
Vote: e
Can someone else vote, and someone trustworthy work with mcmc to hammer?
-
I still fully expect to still get lynched today, but ended up deciding not to just roll over and let it happen. I want to prove to you that I can still be useful and help town win
-
@mcmc: are you comfortable with me putting my vote on e right now?
I notice that ash isn't voting, so depending on what other scummy people are online and mobile, it might be worth keeping a paranoid eye out for a quickhammer...
PPE: Ah, Jimmmmm just voted. I guess it's doubly important to be sure mcmc is watching now.
-
I was given the information for slots 11 and 12, if people want me to claim that. I probably won't if as it stands right now, which hurts town. But I have to have some sort of leverage. I am the survivor after all
-
PPE: Ah, Jimmmmm just voted. I guess it's doubly important to be sure mcmc is watching now.
Unvote
If it happens in the next ~20 minutes I can be the L-1. Otherwise I'll have to revote and go to bed.
-
2.7 is at L-3 currently
-
Sorry lalight, we A) don't know he's telling the truth, B) survivor is almost always a liability to town. It's far better to lynch him.
maybe you're right. I just always thought that lynching survivor is sad.
Okay, I am ready to vote for him at your command
-
Now he's l-4 with jimm unvote, you can re-vote jimm.
-
Vote: e
That should be L-3 now.
-
space to l-3, jimm to l-2. Then lalight to l-1 when I say so
-
space to l-3, jimm to l-2. Then lalight to l-1 when I say so
got it. I am online for the next 2 hrs
-
Jim you can go ahead
-
Vote: e
mcmc you better get your vote ready.
-
Vote lalight
-
vote: 2.71828.....
-
vote: e
-
vote: 2.7
-
I took bus driver
-
Unvote
-
I took bus driver
Ha! :)
-
vote: e
Good job scum! Beat me by .05
-
I also took the hammer
-
how did this happen?!
-
Well damn.
-
vote: e
Good job scum! Beat me by .05
Oh f.
I didn't see that.
-
vote: e
Good job scum! Beat me by .05
It was stressful. Refreshing constantly
-
how did this happen?!
It was bound to happen when we caught scum. I have to spam preview and then post once you do, he beat me to it.
We still have a possible doc/jk hope to see y'all around tomorrow.
-
Was there no way to delay this until e is no longer around? I'm not sure when the deadline would have been. Guess it doesn't matter now.
RR is still scum. And ashersky too, probably.
-
vote: e
Good job scum! Beat me by .05
It was stressful. Refreshing constantly
Were you full refreshing? That's crazy fast I was just fetching preview
-
Unfortunate that success in a game of Mafia can come down to who can refresh and click post faster.
-
Ouchie
-
Unfortunate that success in a game of Mafia can come down to who can refresh and click post faster.
In the end this outcome is probably better for the game.
-
Was there no way to delay this until e is no longer around? I'm not sure when the deadline would have been. Guess it doesn't matter now.
RR is still scum. And ashersky too, probably.
We could have but then he could have been hiding, and still around ect. I've debated different non-code codes to try to get the hammer easier or planning on doing it at like 4am ect. But decided just going for it is more fair and enjoyable.
We've still managed to lynch scum which is great.
-
Unfortunate that success in a game of Mafia can come down to who can refresh and click post faster.
In the end this outcome is probably better for the game.
You're probably right.
-
Reads if I'm dead.
Lalight and space feel very scummy to me.
Space always feels scummy to me so not as strong as my feelings on lalight.
I think the stuff ash is going for is that Faust/galz may be wearwolves.
Twm has still never hidden behind a confirmed townie. Be wary of that.
-
Reads if I'm dead.
Lalight and space feel very scummy to me.
Space always feels scummy to me so not as strong as my feelings on lalight.
I think the stuff ash is going for is that Faust/galz may be wearwolves.
Twm has still never hidden behind a confirmed townie. Be wary of that.
Can you say i'm townie?
-
Oh I was draft position 4 and went for the hammer hero
-
I think RR is townie here
-
Oh I was draft position 4 and went for the hammer hero
Sorry, RR. I think that means you lost your bet
-
Oh I was draft position 4 and went for the hammer hero
Sorry, RR. I think that means you lost your bet
Nuh uh
-
Ugh. Just woke up. Laying in bed reading. Caught up. Ugh.
-
vote: e
Good job scum! Beat me by .05
It was stressful. Refreshing constantly
Were you full refreshing? That's crazy fast I was just fetching preview
No, I was doing the same thing as you. fetching preview. Which, I guess isn't a full refresh. But it is a refresh of sorts
-
Yea the rr stuff, since we now know 2.7 is scum it still makes no sense for him not to just claim his position and slot. Randomly picking a townies position is super wierd. I guess because he didn't want to have to claim alignment cop and couldn't claim bus-driver.
I dunno about you rr, I'm still thinking it might be best to lynch you and if your a vt know your claim and lynch directly allowed us to catch one of the five scum so great job.
-
Oh I think jake is very townie. I don't think his claim is wierd and I think his whole "I'm gonna have to fight for people to believe me" thing comes from town away more than from scum.
-
Yea the rr stuff, since we now know 2.7 is scum it still makes no sense for him not to just claim his position and slot. Randomly picking a townies position is super wierd. I guess because he didn't want to have to claim alignment cop and couldn't claim bus-driver.
I disagree. but we can have a discussion about it in the speccy after you die tonight. Haha. but really....
-
Hm, so if e does flip Bus Driver, I suppose that somewhat clears RR? It's still strange that e would claim his actual position and claim to have gone for one of me/mcmc/TWM's roles.
Also we probably shouldn't believe what e said about the content of slot 13.
-
Hm, so if e does flip Bus Driver, I suppose that somewhat clears RR? It's still strange that e would not claim his actual position and claim to have gone for one of me/mcmc/TWM's roles instead.
Also we probably shouldn't believe what e said about the content of slot 13.
FTFM
-
Pps is definitely town, faust worries me to no end.
I think vigs are bad for town, I think vigs shouldn't shoot till endgame. I think all the descions faust made toward selecting his role were scummy.
I assumed jk to stop mafia strongman was clearly draft number one and then doctor to stop mafia joat and alignment cop to stop mafia roleblocker would be some order of 2/3. Left me with innocent child to block mafia vig, hammer hero to stop mafia hammer hero, or inventor because I like inventors. Went with hammer hero so that if I was towny enough I could be not only an ic but an unkillable one.
-
Yea the rr stuff, since we now know 2.7 is scum it still makes no sense for him not to just claim his position and slot. Randomly picking a townies position is super wierd. I guess because he didn't want to have to claim alignment cop and couldn't claim bus-driver.
I disagree. but we can have a discussion about it in the speccy after you die tonight. Haha. but really....
I'll be honest I claim what I am or vt everytime as scum. I hate thinking about fake claims, I would love to know fully the thought process in speccy.
-
Pps is definitely town, faust worries me to no end.
I think vigs are bad for town, I think vigs shouldn't shoot till endgame. I think all the descions faust made toward selecting his role were scummy.
Well but vigs aren't bad for town. Lynches aren't bad for town either. Now you say "but lynches provide information yada yada"; note that I explicitly shot a player that would give us the most information on N2 because it was the second-largest wagon, so the information is all still there.
JK/Doc have very low chances of doing anything productive until the midgame at least, and I don't usually live to see the midgame. Alignment Cop is better, but I still thought more use on a player that would live longer to find scum, and was less likely to be meddled with.
-
but sure,
vote: e
confirmed scum, lynch me and get the hammer. You can kill mcmc tonight and out yourself.
good luck.
I will probably get lynched anyway.
This quote confused me for awhile and I think it indicates 2.7 thinks he is at l-2 and is asking for another person who is confirmed scum to hammer him. That indicates rr is also scum and they messed up.
-
I'm here to catch up my re-reads and...it didn't matter.
Incredibly disappointed that we couldn't make it past one day ensuring a specific player hammers. I guess kudos to 2.7?
Mcmc's on the right track, btw. I definitely feel no need to give scum further info here -- if I'm dead you'll see why, if I live I'll explain why.
I'm at a very high level of confidence here, which is not a normal stance for my play. I honestly feel like an IC.
-
I'm at a very high level of confidence here, which is not a normal stance for my play. I honestly feel like an IC.
:o
-
vote: 2.71828.....
Also ash made me think.
You guys should maybe lynch lalight sometime. I should stuck to my gut and made lalight vote before Jim.
I may be crazy but if mafia has any way of communicating lalight did post his vote on the exact minute mark which could have been planned. Just getting all my thoughts out before robz closes.
-
Add dylan to the list of scummy lurky/I always find scummy camp that I threw space in(though space hasn't been lurky at all)
Sudgy is still a mystery to me. He's playing lots like I remember him, he went away because he wasn't investing tons of time into games if I remember correctly and he has good reads on me all game. That being said he doesn't seem to have been doing much, but I'm still overall towny on him.
Jimm has been extremely towny when he is around.
-
vote: 2.71828.....
Also ash made me think.
You guys should maybe lynch lalight sometime. I should stuck to my gut and made lalight vote before Jim.
I may be crazy but if mafia has any way of communicating lalight did post his vote on the exact minute mark which could have been planned. Just getting all my thoughts out before robz closes.
oh my.
I wouldn't repeat it if I had a gun to my head
-
you are overly paranoid
-
Someone make sure to do a full post count in the morning and separate the days. I expect people who changed the amount they posted after the hammer hero claim are likely scummy.
Also do a vote count of the lynch wagon from each day with the confirmed townies/scums colored in. All these things are just time consuming and help town ten times more than scum.
-
Thread locked.
-
Vote Count 3.7
ashersky (3): O, faust, JaketheBaseballGod22
sudgy (1): Dylan32
2.71828...... (9): RoadRunner7671, pingpongsam, Galzria, sudgy, The_Wine_Merchant, SpaceAnemone, Jimmmmm, LaLight, 2.71828......
Not Voting (4): ashersky, Awaclus, iguanaiguana, mcmcsalot
With 17 alive it took 9 to lynch.
-
It was an interesting plan, boy did it work out badly for him.
Axxle, why did you take 1-shot Bus driver?
We're in pretty good shape, by finding the SK is going to be tough.
Because fruit vender is too overpowered. I don't want to be responsible for breaking the game.
2.71828......, the Odd-Night Bulletproof Serial Killer and 1-Shot Bus Driver, has been lynched.
Night 3 begins now. All players must check-in with me during Night 3 by posting in their personal or shared QTs. Failure to do so could result in modkill. Actions are due within 48 hours. Day 3 begins Wednesday, June 7th, at 1:00 PM Forum Time.
-
GUYS!!!!!!!! I made a horrible, horrible, horrible mistake.
Night4 I didn't use my LR because I didn't send in the PM to jotheonah. I did however send in a PM to jtotheonah, which I don't think he checks!!! I just noticed this as I was skimming through my sent posts to find another post for another game. So I believe I still have a 1-shot LR available to use.
Ugggg!!!!!!! I feel horrible. I mean that stupid mistake could easily cost us the game. (it would have prevented theorel's death, although I would be dead right now). I can't even tell you how mad I am right now!
So you used the Yuma Rod.
apparently... Well at least now I can tell my mom I am famous for something
This is coming from the maRquis guy, though. I wonder if this is just some line of convenient mistakes.
oh sure, kick me while I am down.
Well I have to say it! I don't know man. I don't know about you.
hey guys, what if we no lynch now and Yuma LRs?? :D I guess scum would just no kill...
I plan to activate two lightning rods tonight to make up for this.
I think if yuma's telling the truth he should have just argued strongly for no lynch but not told us about LR.
I'm not sure that would have helped matters. Because we would have spent tomorrow trying to figure out a scum!reason yuma died, when in actuality it would have been a town!reason, the LR. Assuming he is town and LR.
Maybe. I think I would have been like, "Really Robz? You expect me to believe that liopoil killed yuma?"
It would have totally fed my conspiracy theory about lio being godfather!
Mcmcsalot, the Town-aligned Hammer Hero, has been killed.
Pingpongsam, the Town-aligned Restless Sheeper, has been killed.
The_Wine_Merchant, the Town-aligned Hider, has been killed.
DAY 4 START!
THREAD UNLOCKED.
-
Well, that was a pretty crappy night for us.
-
Man.
Robz, if TWM had died because of his role, you would just say he's killed, correct?
I have to go, but I'll be back later. My classes are almost done too.
-
Welp. I suppose TWM hid behind scum?
We're at 14 with 4 scum now. That's not quite ideal.
-
Vote Count 4.1
Not Voting (13): ashersky, Awaclus, iguanaiguana, O, faust, JaketheBaseballGod22, Dylan32, RoadRunner7671, Galzria, sudgy, SpaceAnemone, Jimmmmm, LaLight
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
-
Man.
Robz, if TWM had died because of his role, you would just say he's killed, correct?
I have to go, but I'll be back later. My classes are almost done too.
I would say "TWM has been killed" regardless of how he died in the night.
-
I'm looking forward to ashersky's solid evidence about Werewolves ::)
Vote: ashersky
-
who is pps sheeping?
-
and where exactly was our Jailkeeper?
-
and where exactly was our Jailkeeper?
I would like to know that
-
The claims and stuff:
faust - 1, 2-shot Vig (Slot 1)
Jimmmmm - 3, Masonic Lover (Slot 6)
mcmc - 4, Hammer Hero (Slot 9)
LaLight - 5, VT
e - 6, 1-shot Bus Driver (Slot 13)
sudgy - 7, VT (Slot 6)
Dylan32 - 8, VT (Slot 13)
Eevee - 9, VT turned into Masonic Lover (Slot 6)
Awaclus - 10, VT
iguanaiguana - 11, VT
ashersky - 12, non-VT
JReggie - 14, VT
pingpongsam - 15, Restless Sheeper (Slot 2)
JaketheBaseballGod22 - 17, Tracker (Slot 12)
SpaceAnemone - 18, VT
Galzria - 20, Jailkeeper (Slot 11)
O - 21, VT
2.71828..... - ?, VT
pingpongsam - ?, Restless Sheeper
RoadRunner - ?, VT
The_Wine_Merchant - ?, Hider (Slot 10)
Dead and unclaimed:
AndrewisFTTW - ?, VT
gkrieg - ?, VT
Calamitas - ?, Mafia Goon
Eevee - ?, Masonic Lover or VT
Cuzz - ?, VT
I think we're still missing some claims? Not sure though. Feel free to update this list.
-
who is pps sheeping?
TWM. So noone.
-
Ah, forgot to include RR.
-
who is pps sheeping?
TWM. So noone.
ugh, my computer near exploded when I was looking for it opening the whole thread
yeah, confirmed, TWM
PPE: 1
-
who is pps sheeping?
I was just wondering that. I'm on my work server, so I don't have my game notes with me, and I'm not very free to look at this stuff till early on.
If TWM died from hiding then it points to me or iguana as scum, since mcmc is now conf!town. I can tell you for sure that that would mean that iguana is scum, assuming TWM didn't deviate from his plan. However, it's also possible that he didn't hide, or that he was hiding behind mcmc when mcmc died.
It's also possible that we have three kills because scum has the vig, their faction kill, and maybe an inventor to give them more kills or something? I recall a post early in the game where someone enumerated all the possible kill mechanisms that might be in play-- could someone repost that if they find it?
PPE: 5 (Sorry.. busy at work!)
-
that's what I am thinking, 2nd slot has not claimed. That might be gkrieg, yeah, but maybe it's scum with a PR and the real scum took Calamitas' slot.
@faust, how did the thing with "who might choose M19 as favorite" ended?
-
Anyway, top suspects:
- ash for refusing to claim
- Space/iguana because TWM hid behind one of them
- Galzria because mcmc died
The Galzria thing is sort of weak because the chance of scum having either Roleblocker or Strongman are relatively high.
-
The claims and stuff:
faust - 1, 2-shot Vig (Slot 1)
Jimmmmm - 3, Masonic Lover (Slot 6)
mcmc - 4, Hammer Hero (Slot 9)
LaLight - 5, VT
e - 6, 1-shot Bus Driver (Slot 13)
sudgy - 7, VT (Slot 6)
Dylan32 - 8, VT (Slot 13)
Eevee - 9, VT turned into Masonic Lover (Slot 6)
Awaclus - 10, VT
iguanaiguana - 11, VT
ashersky - 12, non-VT
JReggie - 14, VT
pingpongsam - 15, Restless Sheeper (Slot 2)
JaketheBaseballGod22 - 17, Tracker (Slot 12)
SpaceAnemone - 18, VT
RoadRunner - 19, VT
Galzria - 20, Jailkeeper (Slot 11)
O - 21, VT
pingpongsam - ?, Restless Sheeper
The_Wine_Merchant - ?, Hider (Slot 10)
Dead and unclaimed:
AndrewisFTTW - ?, VT
gkrieg - ?, VT
Calamitas - ?, Mafia Goon
Eevee - ?, Masonic Lover or VT
Cuzz - ?, VT
I think we're still missing some claims? Not sure though. Feel free to update this list.
FTFY. there was E twice
-
@Robz, how is the scenario with Roleblocker/Jailkeeper targeting each other an killing resolved?
-
that's what I am thinking, 2nd slot has not claimed. That might be gkrieg, yeah, but maybe it's scum with a PR and the real scum took Calamitas' slot.
@faust, how did the thing with "who might choose M19 as favorite" ended?
We know that someone did because Jimmmm chose it.
Galzria, sudgy, Cuzz were in that game. It could be Cuzz getting unlucky. Galzria does not make too much sense given that his claim mostly fits. So that would leave sudgy.
-
If TWM died from hiding then it points to me or iguana as scum, since mcmc is now conf!town. I can tell you for sure that that would mean that iguana is scum, assuming TWM didn't deviate from his plan. However, it's also possible that he didn't hide, or that he was hiding behind mcmc when mcmc died.
That's very townie to remember and recall. I, um, forgot this
-
If TWM died from hiding then it points to me or iguana as scum, since mcmc is now conf!town. I can tell you for sure that that would mean that iguana is scum, assuming TWM didn't deviate from his plan. However, it's also possible that he didn't hide, or that he was hiding behind mcmc when mcmc died.
That's very townie to remember and recall. I, um, forgot this
Dunno. It's very likely that TWM died from hiding. He certainly wouldn't hide behind mcmc. Space should be voting for iguana and the reason that they aren't is they need a way out after iguana flips town.
-
that's what I am thinking, 2nd slot has not claimed. That might be gkrieg, yeah, but maybe it's scum with a PR and the real scum took Calamitas' slot.
@faust, how did the thing with "who might choose M19 as favorite" ended?
We know that someone did because Jimmmm chose it.
Galzria, sudgy, Cuzz were in that game. It could be Cuzz getting unlucky. Galzria does not make too much sense given that his claim mostly fits. So that would leave sudgy.
sudgy claimed after it was known there masons, and he claimed to take slot 6 and he was one of the first people to claim. Well, well, well.
vote: sudgy
-
@Robz, how is the scenario with Roleblocker/Jailkeeper targeting each other an killing resolved?
In the order of operations post on page 1, it says roleblocker blocks jk, jk blocks no one, if their orders conflict.
-
@Robz, how is the scenario with Roleblocker/Jailkeeper targeting each other an killing resolved?
In the order of operations post on page 1, it says roleblocker blocks jk, jk blocks no one, if their orders conflict.
I am sorry, thanks.
-
I'm town again. Thanks for doubting me guys
-
that's what I am thinking, 2nd slot has not claimed. That might be gkrieg, yeah, but maybe it's scum with a PR and the real scum took Calamitas' slot.
@faust, how did the thing with "who might choose M19 as favorite" ended?
We know that someone did because Jimmmm chose it.
Galzria, sudgy, Cuzz were in that game. It could be Cuzz getting unlucky. Galzria does not make too much sense given that his claim mostly fits. So that would leave sudgy.
sudgy claimed after it was known there masons, and he claimed to take slot 6 and he was one of the first people to claim. Well, well, well.
vote: sudgy
There is much stronger evidence than this.
Oh, and I missed this, but ashersky was also in that game.
-
Grmph, more double-checking reveals sudgy wasn't even in it. Sorry for my laziness.
-
I am willing to lynch ash, but i really want to listen to what he will say
Ppe: i will look at it myself
-
vote: ashersky
I just don't see anyone else vote for M19
-
I mean, voting for M10 was not that hard. All you needed to do was check the mafia game awards winners and see how many from each game were playing, and then make some educated guesses as tiebreaker.
I really want to see ashersky dead, but it is probably better to resolve the Space/iguana situation first.
-
Unfortunately I have no time right now for excessive rereads of a 3400-post game. Should happen some time later.
-
I mean, voting for M10 was not that hard. All you needed to do was check the mafia game awards winners and see how many from each game were playing, and then make some educated guesses as tiebreaker.
I really want to see ashersky dead, but it is probably better to resolve the Space/iguana situation first.
I don't know. Space/Iguana case is not that strong at all, I can see TWM hiding behind someone else, or mcmc for what it's worth. I don't say this situation should be forgotten, I just think the evidence against ash is more
-
If mcmc doesn't get the hammer for some reason I will roll a dice and either not hide, hide behind Space or hide behind iguana.
-
You think TWM went against that?
-
You think TWM went against that?
oh, I forgot "mcmc doesn't get the hammer" was a condition.
hm.
well.
hm.
I guess TWM might go against it, but I am not sure. I need a reread badly too, I don't forget a single thing from iguana for the whole game. Now that there's 13 of us, it all should be a bit easier
-
You think TWM went against that?
No
-
You think TWM went against that?
oh, I forgot "mcmc doesn't get the hammer" was a condition.
hm.
well.
hm.
I guess TWM might go against it, but I am not sure. I need a reread badly too, I don't forget a single thing from iguana for the whole game. Now that there's 13 of us, it all should be a bit easier
Vote: LL
-
You think TWM went against that?
oh, I forgot "mcmc doesn't get the hammer" was a condition.
hm.
well.
hm.
I guess TWM might go against it, but I am not sure. I need a reread badly too, I don't forget a single thing from iguana for the whole game. Now that there's 13 of us, it all should be a bit easier
Vote: LL
derailing the wagon?
what do you think about ash?
What do you think about iguana? What do you think about Space?
-
You think TWM went against that?
oh, I forgot "mcmc doesn't get the hammer" was a condition.
hm.
well.
hm.
I guess TWM might go against it, but I am not sure. I need a reread badly too, I don't forget a single thing from iguana for the whole game. Now that there's 13 of us, it all should be a bit easier
Vote: LL
derailing the wagon?
what do you think about ash?
What do you think about iguana? What do you think about Space?
How about ash is very scummy. Iguana and space are suspicious. And that post is really scummy which is why I voted you.
-
Space and Lalight are suspecioue, so is Ash.
If Ash's next post doesn't have something to do with his results I'm voting for him and keeping my vote there until I die, he dies, or the game ends.
-
No surprise Faust comes out swinging. He knows he's caught.
I won Role Cop.
N1 AND N2 I investigated faust. I received No Result both times. After the way D2 progressed, it became clear to me that he won his claimed slot but bid on investigation immune. Given his propensity for being everyone's favorite night target -- I copped him, after all -- this makes perfect sense.
He fakeclaimed something safe from the same slot he won. I was convinced he was WW with Galz due to this tactic, which makes sense if you look at the JK slot. Galz won the conversion, faked JK; Faust joined him, faked Vig.
The SK existing helps Galz only slightly in my opinion -- the WW thing was based on his clear ties to Faust as well as the twin claiming, so he could still be Mafia with Faust, of course. And the jailing could be completely false, or true, if they are partners. But Faust I know for sure must be lying (unless I was jailed/blocked N1, as an edge case).
I am holding off my N3 result (you know why) until I see some flailing from Faust. And by flailing I mean angry and flabbergasted at the idiocy of it all Faust, because that's what caught faust does to get out of trouble. (We are kind of alike sometimes).
vote: faust
-
N1 AND N2 I investigated faust. I received No Result both times. After the way D2 progressed, it became clear to me that he won his claimed slot but bid on investigation immune. Given his propensity for being everyone's favorite night target -- I copped him, after all -- this makes perfect sense.
This is bullshit. You can read the setup discussion thread for this game. I implicitly agreed with you that mafia should take 2-shot vig over Investigation Immune.
-
Also I'm curious how you explain the deaths tonight if I'm no vig. (Spoilers: I shot PPS)
-
Both Faust and Ashersky look soooooooooo scummy.
Ashersky: how did we get three deaths with no vig and no SK?
Faust: WHY DID YOU SHOOT PPS JESUS CHRIST
All in all, Faust's suggests a terrible town mistake compared to "I literally can't see how we'd have three deaths without vig" so Vote: Ashersky
-
Both Faust and Ashersky look soooooooooo scummy.
Ashersky: how did we get three deaths with no vig and no SK?
Faust: WHY DID YOU SHOOT PPS JESUS CHRIST
All in all, Faust's suggests a terrible town mistake compared to "I literally can't see how we'd have three deaths without vig" so Vote: Ashersky
Preach
-
but they know killing me will out them definitively.
Basically, I've lived up to my proclamation from the beginning of the game. I'll need to thank Jimmmmm (of all people) in my MVP acceptance speech.
especially not seeing how a rolecop is a "deathproof" PR.
-
can we lynch Faust as the incredibly likely scum!vig after this?
-
@Galzria Did you jail ashersky?
@Ashersky What was your N3 result?
-
nevermind we have the 50/50 on Space/Jimmm to deal with after this. If someone wants to point out a scenario where the deaths aren't: hider behind scum, Vig, Mafia kill i'm all ears.
and yes to @Jake's questions. Ashersky, your flail about plan is obviously not going to be effective since you'll be lynched well before Faust will today. So your "withholding information" isn't really helping you.
-
I'm at work all day and won't be able to contribute much until tonight at a minimum. I've also just accepted a job offer that is going to see me going through a major transition over the next few weeks (official start date of July 5th - but I'll be on a business trip from the 18th through the 23rd, and I'll be swamped trying to make everything go smoothly until then).
Regarding who I jailed last night:
I am holding off my N3 result (you know why)
I want this revealed first.
I jailed one of Ashersky, mcmc, or my highest scum read last night. I'm guessing Jake tracked me (I would in his position):
and where exactly was our Jailkeeper?
I would like to know that
And knows that my above statement is true. Until Ash reveals what his n3 results were though I will not say who I jailed.
-
this claim does not make any sense
-
Faust: WHY DID YOU SHOOT PPS JESUS CHRIST
Because we really could not have afforded to keep him around until LyLo.
-
By the way, who in the world takes Role Cop over Watcher?
-
By the way, who in the world takes Role Cop over Watcher?
scum
-
By the way, who in the world takes Role Cop over Watcher?
Scum
-
Well yeah. Though I would make the case that scum!ashersky did not choose that slot at all.
-
Well yeah. Though I would make the case that scum!ashersky did not choose that slot at all.
it's either this or that. He was caught by e flipping purple, there's nothing really to talk about
-
Thinking about it, vote: ashersky
He's just too likely to have a crucial scum role.
-
I'm at work all day and won't be able to contribute much until tonight at a minimum. I've also just accepted a job offer that is going to see me going through a major transition over the next few weeks (official start date of July 5th - but I'll be on a business trip from the 18th through the 23rd, and I'll be swamped trying to make everything go smoothly until then).
Regarding who I jailed last night:
I am holding off my N3 result (you know why)
I want this revealed first.
I jailed one of Ashersky, mcmc, or my highest scum read last night. I'm guessing Jake tracked me (I would in his position):
and where exactly was our Jailkeeper?
I would like to know that
And knows that my above statement is true. Until Ash reveals what his n3 results were though I will not say who I jailed.
Oh my lord just claim. It's directly slowing down other claims.
-
He fakeclaimed something safe from the same slot he won. I was convinced he was WW with Galz due to this tactic, which makes sense if you look at the JK slot. Galz won the conversion, faked JK; Faust joined him, faked Vig.
Also, that's not how WW conversion works. Even if I won the conversion, I would be given a VT partner, not a PR partner. That VT would then be offered two unchosen PR's (similar to slot 12).
-
We should note that not even the WW theory that ash put forward makes any sense because that's not how WW conversion works at all. If I had been converted WW by Galzria, I would have had to be a VT beforehand. But that is impossible as I am first in draft order.
-
PPE Galzria.
-
We need claims as follows:
ashersky
Galzria
Jake
-
Faust: WHY DID YOU SHOOT PPS JESUS CHRIST
Because we really could not have afforded to keep him around until LyLo.
If you shot mr. "My bullshit information still gets out even if I die somehow" ashersky we'd be a decent amount further from LYLO in the first place.
-
Faust: WHY DID YOU SHOOT PPS JESUS CHRIST
Because we really could not have afforded to keep him around until LyLo.
If you shot mr. "My bullshit information still gets out even if I die somehow" ashersky we'd be a decent amount further from LYLO in the first place.
True, but I was looking forward to see what he'd come up with. And I really really did not want to get in a fight with PPS, which would have been necessary then.
-
Vote: Space for being on team Ashersky then.
-
Vote Count 4.2
ashersky (3): faust, LaLight, O
LaLight (1): JaketheBaseballGod22
faust (1): ashersky
SpaceAnemone (1): iguanaiguana
Not Voting (7): Awaclus, Dylan32, RoadRunner7671, Galzria, sudgy, SpaceAnemone, Jimmmmm
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
-
If you can't see the extremely simple explanation for the night kills, I'm disappointed.
In what world does a town Vig kill a fairly good town role over the many, many scum reads he has! I mean, reread the guy in reference to me. "I wanted to see his claim" is complete crap. What he means is "ashersky is the easiest mislynch on f.ds so of course let's leave him alive."
-
We need claims as follows:
ashersky
Galzria
Jake
Says scum, who really needs this info to shape future posts.
-
Faust has stated that he has killed two towny players who no actual town Vig would ever want to kill.
Huge town mistakes, as O says? From arguably the best mafia player on the board? Highly doubtful. If he's actually Town (he's not), this is easily his worst performance, ever. But it's not.
There's no doubt he had a strong hand in killing those towny players. He ordered them.
-
I hope Jimmmm can play today -- it was his play catching me so long ago that inspired me holding on to my guilty result on Faust to draw out potential partners.
-
As for Role Cop vs. Watcher, I'm certain I made the right choice. A directed investigation is better than a passive hope.
-
Vote: ashersky
-
Also, what benefit do I get from lying here?
I'm the much townier player, I have the actual result. If I'm lying I get a 1-for-1 trade with a VT?
The fact that faust has not even considered that fact means he's not really the Vig.
Out for the night. Back tomorrow.
-
the arguments are entirely irrelevant unless you can explain how there's three deaths
-
I am confused, ash - am I or am I not the vig?
And what on earth were you thinking with the Werewolf thing?
These are the questions you don't have answers to.
-
I am confused, ash - am I or am I not the vig?
And what on earth were you thinking with the Werewolf thing?
These are the questions you don't have answers to.
Please claim your action ashersky and galzria.
Until you do Vote: Ashersky you are both my top scum reads
-
We need claims as follows:
ashersky
Galzria
Jake
Says scum, who really needs this info to shape future posts.
Says me who has extremely prevalent info that could be made even better or broken by your claims!!!!
-
If TWM died from hiding then it points to me or iguana as scum, since mcmc is now conf!town. I can tell you for sure that that would mean that iguana is scum, assuming TWM didn't deviate from his plan. However, it's also possible that he didn't hide, or that he was hiding behind mcmc when mcmc died.
That's very townie to remember and recall. I, um, forgot this
Dunno. It's very likely that TWM died from hiding. He certainly wouldn't hide behind mcmc. Space should be voting for iguana and the reason that they aren't is they need a way out after iguana flips town.
I wasn't voting for anyone yet because I only checked in here briefly during work earlier. I'm reading and catching up now, and I'll definitely vote before sleep.
-
Anyway, top suspects:
- ash for refusing to claim
- Space/iguana because TWM hid behind one of them
- Galzria because mcmc died
The Galzria thing is sort of weak because the chance of scum having either Roleblocker or Strongman are relatively high.
I think strongman is pretty much confirmed, isn't it? If Galz got JK from slot 11, and we know it's impossible to have WWs because e flipped SK, then the PR actually won from slot 8 must be strongman. The only way that doesn't work out is if Galz is lying about his PR/slot.
-
I've just found that post from earlier in the game where someone outlined the number of ways we might expect deaths to occur:
we should expect either 3 or 4 deaths. Not 2 or 3. Why does it seem I'm the only one who acknowledges this.
SK, Vig, Mafia - where is the other "expected" death coming from? There's ways to run up the count, sure (HH, Inventor Poison, Hider, front side of Masonic getting killed, etc), but I'm not sure where you're getting the other expected death.
The HH can't have happened last night, and nor can the mason death or the SK death.
We already know that PPS was the vig death from our claimed vig. I think that's quite scummy of faust, because we're clearly not going to reach a lylo situation with PPS's sheep-vote in place now that the person he's sheeping is dead. And it's not like mcmc's death last night was unexpected once he missed the hammer :-(
That means TWM/mcmc died from the mafia faction kill plus either poison, or hiding either behind scum or possibly behind mcmc when he died. I do think TWM will have followed through on his stated algorithm, though the fact he and mcmc both died in the same night makes me wonder.
Incidentally, would the HH protection mcmc had on N2 have protected him from being poisoned that night, and dying last night? I think poison seems unlikely overall, though.
-
nevermind we have the 50/50 on Space/Jimmm to deal with after this.
I think you mean the Space/Iguana situation! Preferably the Iguana half of it.
If someone wants to point out a scenario where the deaths aren't: hider behind scum, Vig, Mafia kill i'm all ears.
Oh, I kind of did that, but there's the hider-behind-person-who's-killed possibility, and also the inventor-poison one, though they're both less likely than TWM following through on his original hiding algorithm, I think.
-
Also, O, did you ever claim what slot you bid for?
If not, why not?
-
I didn't see the claiming order for the second round of claims, wasn't paying the most attention since one of e/RR was confirmed scum and the game seemed to be stalling out because of Ashersky. I can still do right now if you wish?
-
nevermind we have the 50/50 on Space/Jimmm to deal with after this.
I think you mean the Space/Iguana situation! Preferably the Iguana half of it.
If someone wants to point out a scenario where the deaths aren't: hider behind scum, Vig, Mafia kill i'm all ears.
Oh, I kind of did that, but there's the hider-behind-person-who's-killed possibility, and also the inventor-poison one, though they're both less likely than TWM following through on his original hiding algorithm, I think.
I did forget about inventor but see no reason to think TWM didn't follow his plan.
More importantly my accounting already has TWM's death as a hider death... that's 2/3 deaths..
-
I didn't see the claiming order for the second round of claims, wasn't paying the most attention since one of e/RR was confirmed scum and the game seemed to be stalling out because of Ashersky. I can still do right now if you wish?
Well, I do wish, because I'm a completionist like that! Happy to wait for one of the more conf!townie people to give the edict, though :-P
We also don't know what Awaclus went for, though now that TWM is conf!town, we can trust Awaclus absolutely as our IC, so I'm not really expecting him to indulge my curiosity here.
-
I am inclined to believe that Galzria is telling the truth about his draft. That being said I don't see the benefit of claiming now.
I also bid for slot 11, being so low in the draft, and did not receive it. That was very softly suggested in this post but obviously you could say that wasn't really a soft claim.
-
Ok, as far as alternate theories to explain 3 deaths, what about scum inventor poisoning someone (probably mcmc). The hammer hero is unkillable if he uses protection on a given night, but he isn't immune to all actions because of it. So say scum poisoned him last night, he would die tonight unless he either used his death proof ability or was doctored last night, assuming I'm reading everything correctly. So TWM could have not hid, been shot by mafia, faust shot pps, and mcmc died by poison.
I don't think this is the most likely scenario, but it crossed my mind. One important note is that inventor and role cop are in the same slot, so Ash could have taken inventor and fakeclaimed role cop. So that is another possible situation which would have scum!Ash.
I was starting to say I didn't think Inventor would be a particularly useful role for scum here, but I reread it and 4/6 of the items could be pretty good. Motivator (double night kill), next night deathproof, same day beloved (if scum partner is going to get lynched with hammer hero waiting, give the item, HH votes, self hammer after HH thought he had the hammer, ruin hammer hero's night), and 1-shot poisoner. The neighbor could potentially be useful for 2 scum to have a permanently open QT ("This QT remains open until one of the players dies"). So I ended up convincing myself that this role would be better for scum than I thought.
So right now we have the potential of at least one of the two of Space and Iguana, one of faust and ash (impossible for this to be town v town right?).
I know he didn't become IC, but RR's slot counter claim isn't scummy now that e flipped normal SK right?
The biggest thing for me not completely buying into faust over ash is that the narrative for scum!vig shooting pps is way easier to believe than what he said his town reasoning was for doing so. Scum knew TWM would be more vulnerable tonight that most other nights, and we all knew pps was sheeping him. Kill both of them and get the extra votes out of the way without it being able to be used against them. (Scum kill TWM and faust shoot pps together requires an inventor either poisoning or motivating the kill).
What if faust and Ash are actually both scum and set up this 1v1 to earn what would amount to IC status for whichever of them town doesn't go ahead and lynch? My last scum game, ash fake claimed tracker and a scummy result on our partner J Reggie and we sacrificed him. We both survived til the end and won. I don't have a personal example, but I don't think anyone would question faust's ability to pull something like that off. What a better plan for two of the top players on the board than to go big or go home for Mafia 100.
tl;dr
Inventor is actually pretty sweet for scum and is the same slot as ash's claim.
I am leaning towards scum!vig!faust and inventor!scum!ash rather than this being a true 1v1. Not voting til after claims are finished though.
p.s. Sorry for the two unrelated thoughts in the middle. That was stream of consciousness and I'm not changing it.
ppe 7
-
The fact that Space is 'thinking this all through' and not voting me is a clear sign that he wants to delay the 1v1 between me and him as long as possible. Ash's parading is also a clear distraction from that. Space is the scum!PR here, his play fits it much better than Ash's unsubstantiated nonsense.
Galz and Faust must be the other partners, and they are making counterclaims on each other because they felt this ridiculous line of play would be necessary with a supposedly unkillable hammer hero in the game.
There, game solved. We just need to lynch them all in any order, preferably starting with conf!scum!Space.
-
The fact that Space is 'thinking this all through' and not voting me is a clear sign that he wants to delay the 1v1 between me and him as long as possible. Ash's parading is also a clear distraction from that. Space is the scum!PR here, his play fits it much better than Ash's unsubstantiated nonsense.
Galz and Faust must be the other partners, and they are making counterclaims on each other because they felt this ridiculous line of play would be necessary with a supposedly unkillable hammer hero in the game.
There, game solved. We just need to lynch them all in any order, preferably starting with conf!scum!Space.
How are Galz and Faust counterclaiming each other?
-
Dylan i agree with your analysis but since scum!Faust!inventor --> STRONGLY implies !scum!ashersky!notrolecop i see no reason why we shouldn't lynch Ashersky first. If he's a rolecop then we know faust is very very unlikely to be inventor.
-
Dylan i agree with your analysis but since scum!Faust!inventor --> STRONGLY implies !scum!ashersky!notrolecop i see no reason why we shouldn't lynch Ashersky first. If he's a rolecop then we know faust is very very unlikely to be inventor.
No I'm saying faust is scum!vig and Ash is scum!inventor probably.
-
I hadn't even thought about faust being scum inventor. (Most unlikely since he was #1 in the draft)
-
The fact that Space is 'thinking this all through' and not voting me is a clear sign that he wants to delay the 1v1 between me and him as long as possible. Ash's parading is also a clear distraction from that. Space is the scum!PR here, his play fits it much better than Ash's unsubstantiated nonsense.
Galz and Faust must be the other partners, and they are making counterclaims on each other because they felt this ridiculous line of play would be necessary with a supposedly unkillable hammer hero in the game.
There, game solved. We just need to lynch them all in any order, preferably starting with conf!scum!Space.
You must understand from my perspective why Ash is a 100x better lynch than Space right? It's 50-50 vs extremely unlikely inventor sidecase % chance
PPE: Dylan my bad, that also makes sense but still supports the "DIE ASHER DIE" contingency.
-
More importantly my accounting already has TWM's death as a hider death... that's 2/3 deaths..
How do you mean?
I think the most likely scenario is that faust vigged PPS, TWM hid behind iguana, and mcmc was the mafia faction kill.
The second-most-likely option is that faust vigged PPS, TWM decided to mix things up and hid behind mcmc, and then both mcmc and TWM died because of the mafia faction kill.
In both scenarios, TWM dies as a result of hiding, but one gives better evidence than the other.
I'm maybe 90% confident that TWM did the informative thing and followed through on his algorithm of picking randomly between me and iguana. However, he showed earlier in the game that he got really frustrated by town consensus/notions of optimal play constraining is ability to use his PR how he liked (and ISTR he got similarly frustrated in another recent game which may have been NM10), so I think there is a small chance that he tried something unexpected in the hope of catching scum off-guard, especially since we should have expected someone to protect mcmc last night.
-
The fact that Space is 'thinking this all through' and not voting me is a clear sign that he wants to delay the 1v1 between me and him as long as possible. Ash's parading is also a clear distraction from that. Space is the scum!PR here, his play fits it much better than Ash's unsubstantiated nonsense.
Galz and Faust must be the other partners, and they are making counterclaims on each other because they felt this ridiculous line of play would be necessary with a supposedly unkillable hammer hero in the game.
There, game solved. We just need to lynch them all in any order, preferably starting with conf!scum!Space.
You must understand from my perspective why Ash is a 100x better lynch than Space right? It's 50-50 vs extremely unlikely inventor sidecase % chance
PPE: Dylan my bad, that also makes sense but still supports the "DIE ASHER DIE" contingency.
Yeah I never said it helped Ash's case. I just don't want to jump on "DIE ASHER DIE" and forget that a scum flip would not completely clear faust.
-
More importantly my accounting already has TWM's death as a hider death... that's 2/3 deaths..
How do you mean?
I think the most likely scenario is that faust vigged PPS, TWM hid behind iguana, and mcmc was the mafia faction kill.
The second-most-likely option is that faust vigged PPS, TWM decided to mix things up and hid behind mcmc, and then both mcmc and TWM died because of the mafia faction kill.
In both scenarios, TWM dies as a result of hiding, but one gives better evidence than the other.
I'm maybe 90% confident that TWM did the informative thing and followed through on his algorithm of picking randomly between me and iguana. However, he showed earlier in the game that he got really frustrated by town consensus/notions of optimal play constraining is ability to use his PR how he liked (and ISTR he got similarly frustrated in another recent game which may have been NM10), so I think there is a small chance that he tried something unexpected in the hope of catching scum off-guard, especially since we should have expected someone to protect mcmc last night.
I was addressing Ashersky's claim that Faust is investigation immune and not the Vig. We have no problem assuming Ashersky is lying, which is in fact why I'm voting for him right now.
-
For the people that are firmly on the DIE ASH DIE wagon, would you be reacting the same way that you would have if he had revealed that stuff yesterday during the claim when we all hoped he would without making the game wait?
-
For the people that are firmly on the DIE ASH DIE wagon, would you be reacting the same way that you would have if he had revealed that stuff yesterday during the claim when we all hoped he would without making the game wait?
I've been reacting the same way since well before he even had this ridiculous claim/stallout TBH.
-
The fact that Space is 'thinking this all through' and not voting me is a clear sign that he wants to delay the 1v1 between me and him as long as possible. Ash's parading is also a clear distraction from that. Space is the scum!PR here, his play fits it much better than Ash's unsubstantiated nonsense.
Galz and Faust must be the other partners, and they are making counterclaims on each other because they felt this ridiculous line of play would be necessary with a supposedly unkillable hammer hero in the game.
There, game solved. We just need to lynch them all in any order, preferably starting with conf!scum!Space.
How are Galz and Faust counterclaiming each other?
I mean that Galz is claiming to block Faust's shot N1, and Ash is now claiming to investigate Faust twice in a row. Thein claims are all stacked on top of each other in an unnatural way that looks scummy to me.
-
The fact that Space is 'thinking this all through' and not voting me is a clear sign that he wants to delay the 1v1 between me and him as long as possible.
I am not a "he"!!! Please use "she/her" if you can't deal with gender-neutral pronouns.
The only point I can see in voting for you over ash right now is that it delays lynching ash for long enough to let the claims happen, since right now I think he's on L-2 already.
I mean, people think I seem scummy in spite of the fact that the massclaim would not have happened without my constant pushing and prompting Awaclus to get it through. What are the chances of me running you up to a lynch when most people are still more interested in looking at scum!ash? The fact that you're trying to goad me into voting for you probably means that ash is the higher-value scum PR to take out.
PPE: 5
-
For the people that are firmly on the DIE ASH DIE wagon, would you be reacting the same way that you would have if he had revealed that stuff yesterday during the claim when we all hoped he would without making the game wait?
I'm keen on the ash wagon, I just don't want to quicklynch before the night actions have been claimed. I think the most damning thing for ash is the vagueness with which he hinted at impossible claims yesterday, including the fact that somehow his evidence would come out even if he were to die, which is not compatible with the role he's now claimed. Plus there's very little evidence for his WW theory over a standard mafia pairing, so the fact he acted like he was confident in that before e flipped SK means that I think he was bluffing.
-
Here's my list; it's ended up as being only a slight variation of faust's. I've used "3.T" for conf!town and "1.?" for faction-unknown. I've even put myself iguana and ash as unknowns just to make it easier for the rest of you.
1.? faust, 2-shot vig (slot 1)
2.? ?
3.T Jimmmmm, original Mason (slot 6)
4.T mcmc, Hammer Hero (slot 9)
5.? LL, VT (went for slot 1)
6.S e, SK, 1-Shot Bus Driver (claims slot 13; definitely can't have been 6)
7.? sudgy, VT (went for slot 6)
8.? Dylan, VT (went for slot 13)
9.T Eevee, was VT, became Mason. (went for slot 6)
10.T Awaclus, VT
11.? iguana, VT (went for slot 13)
12.? ashersky, Role Cop (slot 4?)
13.T TWM, Hider (Slot 10)
14.T JR, VT
15.T PPS, restless sheeper (slot 2)
16.? ?
17.? Jake, Tracker (slot 12)
18.? Space, VT (went for slot 12)
19.? RR, VT (went for slot 13)
20.? Galz, Jailkeeper (slot 11)
21.? O, VT (went for slot?)
22.? ?
23.? ?
I feel very townie on RR now that the stuff with e has blown over.
I think ash and iguana are scum.
For now I think Galz is more likely to be town than scum, but I'd really like to hear the N3 night action claims.
LL and sudgy are both high-placed people with convenient VT claims. I think either could be hiding a scum PR up there. However, if iguana flips scum-PR, then actually Dylan is the most interesting person to look at, since he's above Iguana and claiming the same slot, meaning that Iguana could have known for sure that slot 13 was a safe fake-claim when really he may have taken the strongman or another useful scum PR.
-
I believe I'll have about an hour to spare right now and since Ash has been on and didn't claim his results I'm not going to stall things any longer:
As Jake is aware, and is probably obvious to most people paying attention at this point:
I jailed Ashersky last night
"OMG WHY DIDN'T YOU PROTECT MCMC??!??!??"
Reason #1: Strongman
If scum has this role (and I believe now that it is likely (I'll circle back to this), then jailing mcmc was a waste of a night action. I simply couldn't protect him, so I went with the next best option in my mind - jailing Ashersky again. Had his claim yesterday not gone the way it did, maybe I would've taken somebody else - but as it was I wanted to limit any damage scum!Ash could do.
I was incredibly nervous of crossing night actions with Faust, who I believe is in fact a Vig and - at the time - felt above average confidence was town (PPS has me reconsidering).
Reason #2: No Strongman/Roleblocker
If scum didn't have a way to circumvent my protection then I figured the odds of them wasting a shot on a protected mcmc to be less than 50%. Obviously it was a great opportunity for them - but my "obvious" play here would be to protect mcmc. As such, I thought there would be a decent chance that I would die last night - since if they still couldn't kill mcmc then I had to go.
I'm still alive. Mcmc is dead. SK didn't take the JK Slot and JK wasn't chosen either. If my slot was taken, it was taken by scum and they have Strongman. It's either that or nobody took my slot. Given the results from last night, I'm inclined to believe the former.
Further, thinking on NK's:
N1 - Faust is blocked, 2.7 kills Cuzz, Mafia kills gkrieg
N2 - Faust kills Cuzz, Mafia kills Eevee, 2.7 kills...? (I'm guessing he shot Ash who was jailed)
N3 - Faust shoots PPS, Mafia Kill mcmc, TWM dies hiding (most likely Space/Iguana, maybe mcmc, maybe someone else entirely).
The kills each night add up to what we know, without some convoluted reason for why there are more/less than there should be.
I'll happily debate anybody that believes I should've jailed mcmc here, but it was my choice and I still believe that I made the correct one.
-
We should definitely not quickhammer (OR PUT HIM TO L-1) without finishing discussion on the rest of the info. unvote just in case because i don't trust you all.
That being said, if I were scum and Space (who is just the poster before me here) was my scumbuddy AND an alignment cop confirmed Space was scum AND Space claimed Jester/Bus Driver I'd still be more convinced Ashersky was scum than Space at this point. This is pretty much the most open and shut case imaginable. Ashersky's claim is scummy and his behavior is even scummier.
-
We should definitely not quickhammer (OR PUT HIM TO L-1) without finishing discussion on the rest of the info.
This is exactly why I'm not voting him even though I want to see him lynched in the end today. Though I realise that the more we express sentiments such as this, the less likely he is to cooperate with the claims rather than just lurk and try to delay us.
-
Okay, so my evening's deliberation concludes that ash is the better person to vote for, but that I also don't want to vote for him because of the risk of a quickhammer messing up the sharing of info for the day.
Guess I'll vote: iguana for the time being after all, for the obvious reason.
-
So Faust's questionable decided to not shoot ashersky is validated by Galzria's questionable decision to jailkeep ashersky...
-
Re: galz's long post/claim.
In the interest of continuing to point out potential gambits, this does open a slight possibility of scum Galz/Ash gambit. Galz has perfectly convenient excuse and narrative for jailing Ash (and thereby protecting him from the townvig!faust) and allowing scum to go ahead and kill mcmc.
-
I believe I'll have about an hour to spare right now and since Ash has been on and didn't claim his results I'm not going to stall things any longer:
As Jake is aware, and is probably obvious to most people paying attention at this point:
I jailed Ashersky last night
"OMG WHY DIDN'T YOU PROTECT MCMC??!??!??"
Reason #1: Strongman
If scum has this role (and I believe now that it is likely (I'll circle back to this), then jailing mcmc was a waste of a night action. I simply couldn't protect him, so I went with the next best option in my mind - jailing Ashersky again. Had his claim yesterday not gone the way it did, maybe I would've taken somebody else - but as it was I wanted to limit any damage scum!Ash could do.
I was incredibly nervous of crossing night actions with Faust, who I believe is in fact a Vig and - at the time - felt above average confidence was town (PPS has me reconsidering).
Reason #2: No Strongman/Roleblocker
If scum didn't have a way to circumvent my protection then I figured the odds of them wasting a shot on a protected mcmc to be less than 50%. Obviously it was a great opportunity for them - but my "obvious" play here would be to protect mcmc. As such, I thought there would be a decent chance that I would die last night - since if they still couldn't kill mcmc then I had to go.
I'm still alive. Mcmc is dead. SK didn't take the JK Slot and JK wasn't chosen either. If my slot was taken, it was taken by scum and they have Strongman. It's either that or nobody took my slot. Given the results from last night, I'm inclined to believe the former.
Further, thinking on NK's:
N1 - Faust is blocked, 2.7 kills Cuzz, Mafia kills gkrieg
N2 - Faust kills Cuzz, Mafia kills Eevee, 2.7 kills...? (I'm guessing he shot Ash who was jailed)
N3 - Faust shoots PPS, Mafia Kill mcmc, TWM dies hiding (most likely Space/Iguana, maybe mcmc, maybe someone else entirely).
The kills each night add up to what we know, without some convoluted reason for why there are more/less than there should be.
I'll happily debate anybody that believes I should've jailed mcmc here, but it was my choice and I still believe that I made the correct one.
UGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I tracked ash and got "No Result". Can you PLEASE stop jailing my tracking targets. Also just gonna say that a Gal, Asher team looks likely here to me.
Yes Dylan that's what i'm thinking is happening.
-
On the bright side, this might be the first time I've ever been able to confidently say I believe Jake is town haha.
-
Confirming no result from my investigation last night.
-
Confirming no result from my investigation last night.
may you please tell how in the world 3 deaths occurred?
-
also both Space and igu may be scum which would make sense given that Space doesn't like to bus and didn't vote for igu on the first place
-
For the people that are firmly on the DIE ASH DIE wagon, would you be reacting the same way that you would have if he had revealed that stuff yesterday during the claim when we all hoped he would without making the game wait?
Not quite as much, but it's still a huge red flag that his supposed "evidence" on me does not make any sense.
-
Confirming no result from my investigation last night.
So how exactly was that information worth holding back? And why do you post, but don't answer my questions?
-
Confirming no result from my investigation last night.
So how exactly was that information worth holding back? And why do you post, but don't answer my questions?
I'm fairly certain I did answer your questions.
As for holding it back, if Galz claimed to jail someone else, that would give me more information.
-
Look, it appears that for some reason folks may be leaning toward faust being terrible town here, which I just don't understand. Obviously, I'm biased since I know my own alignment and role. Faust is als a biased voice.
Here are facts that are indisputable from a neutral, unbiased perspective:
1. Claimed information about ashersky points to him being town, while claimed information about faust points to him being scum. I claimed Role Cop, got results that point the finger at a player very strongly, and have been claimed to have been jailed two nights in which deaths have occurred, rendering me ineligible to have made kills. All of those things are towny things. Faust claimed to have killed two town members on purpose, including the claimed Sheeper, and has a player with a guilty result on him. Those are scummy things.
2. Faust's play throughout the game has pointed toward him being scum. There's the claiming to kill town on purpose. There's the false sense of danger and fear with which he opened Day 3. This is a big point: go read his opening, he makes it sound like town is in dire danger of losing. If I'm lying and he's telling the truth, then he ABSOLUTELY KNOWS that there is no danger at all because there can only be one kill per night, so there's no rush. And yet he acts like we're at MYLO.
2b. Compare that to what the actual possibilities are. If I'm lying, there's no imminent danger to town at all, and faust is riling people up on purpose. If I'm lying, faust is a named VT now, and he has no reason to need to survive. So Faust's actions point to something hidden, because if I'm lying, there's no reasons for his attitude, behavior, posts, or fears.
3. ashersky's actions make little sense as scum. As mentioned, if I'm lying, I'm doing this to...lynch a scummy VT? At the cost of my own lynch? The scummy players who are trying to push this narrative are ignoring the gigantic elephants in the room. There are TWO claimed PRs who are much more important to remove from the game for scum, and yet I decide to go after the scummy player who has no power at all. Both the Tracker and JK if town are much bigger threats to scum, and scum should be trying to get them lynched/killed.
These are not matters of opinion (maybe you can argue the relative value of a Tracker vs. Jailkeeper vs. Named Townie to town, but it's pretty clear cut where the utility lies). These are facts that have surfaced during the game. The claims occurred. They point toward only one realistic conclusion.
It's clear there are biases, and that most of those biases are against me. I have no expectation that O will take a step back from his emotions and look at the situation logically. I have no expectation that scum, especially scum under Faust's thumb, will do anything against whatever Faust's plan is, because that's what good scum partners do. I know a few other players have developed personal biases over time, and they can be hard to overcome.
But if you are someone who's able to distance yourself from bias, especially conscious bias, and look at the information we know, it's clear who's lying.
Scum's biggest advantage in any mafia game is information. They have much more of it than we do. It is town's responsibility to look at the information we gain through every means possible, review it, and act on it. To blanket dismiss some information because of a personal bias against the source is not how we win.
Again, if I'm lying, the worst thing that happens is a named VT gets lynched and there's an easy lynch tomorrow. And that's even discounting the edge case where this is town vs. town (if I've been jailed every night, my No Result on Faust on N1 is because of jailing, not him lying. If I was blocked that night, etc.).
But if you believe scum here, and lynch me instead, town loses a PR who can (HOPEFULLY) confirm someone else, and I can be confirmed by the Tracker, if he's real.
It's all about compare and contrast, peoples. I have a super confirmable claim and actual value to town; faust has a super convenient and unconfirmable claim and no value to town. Lynching him costs the town nothing, has no downside (just a VT), and has significant upside (catch scum if ash is telling the truth, high chance of catching scum is ash is lying). Lynching me costs the town something (investigations) and has a significant downside, and little upside (lynched scum is ash is lying is the only one I can come up with).
Faust is more likely to be scum and is less risk to town's chances as a mislynch. Ashersky is less likely to be scum (by far) and much higher risk to town's chances if mislynched.
I can't imagine this doesn't answer any and all questions and doubts.
-
Can you emotionally explain to me how you think the three deaths last night occurred? I'm just emotionally incapable of seeing a reasonably emotionally likely possibility, emotionally of course.
-
I can't imagine this doesn't answer any and all questions and doubts.
Well it doesn't really answer any of my questions.
I see no point in arguing against anything else here, though I will have to fight the idea stuck in some people's heads that I'm scum at some point. If anyone else thinks one of ash's points has any merit, come forward and I will address it.
-
Confirming no result from my investigation last night.
So how exactly was that information worth holding back? And why do you post, but don't answer my questions?
I'm fairly certain I did answer your questions.
As for holding it back, if Galz claimed to jail someone else, that would give me more information.
How does that depend on who claims first?
-
I will just point out, specifically, the questions left unanswered:
- How are there 3 deaths tonight if I am no vig?
- How did you manage to believe in a Werewolf theory that doesn't hold up to even a couple of seconds of thought and setup reading?
- How was it beneficial for anyone but yourself to not claim your result immediately?
- Who did you (try to) investigate last night?
-
- How are there 3 deaths tonight if I am no vig?
ash, I doubt you're going to have any success without answering this question.
-
@faust, can you talk me through your reasoning for why killing PPS was good last night?
In particular, I'm interested in you making reference to things like how likely mcmc was to be alive, the possible benefits of a late-game sheeper, and how you see the rest of the game playing out in terms of how many people we stand to lose from NKs etc each night.
-
@faust, can you talk me through your reasoning for why killing PPS was good last night?
In particular, I'm interested in you making reference to things like how likely mcmc was to be alive, the possible benefits of a late-game sheeper, and how you see the rest of the game playing out in terms of how many people we stand to lose from NKs etc each night.
The reasoning is as follows:
Scum has no benefit from shooting town!PPS. Like, it does not decrease the number of votes that town holds. That is unless PPS actually targets scum (but we still have a couple of ICs). So chances are they won't shoot him.
I would be asking "how do we lose this game?", because that is what I want to prevent. Had scum!PPS lived until LyLo and we lynched him then, he could have sheeped a scumpartner, resulting immediately in our loss. Scum!PPS alive effectively means that scum automatically wins a LyLo (unless we lynch all of PPS's partners before we lynch him). That is a huge upside for scum. Plus, it is likely that our ICs will be gone at some point, and then even town!PPS would have a chance to mistakenly sheep scum. This also results in them winning the LyLo situation.
So overall, leaving PPS alive is a big benefit for scum. And seeing as he won't die unless it benefits scum, there is no upside to the role for town. I thought killing him now and giving the additional vote to a near-confirmed town player that can evade nightkills was the best option. I did not wish to make this case during the day because it is not based on reads and a lynched based on that would not have been very informative. Also I had doubts that people would go along with my reasoning.
I also had a mild scumread on PPS, but that was not based on anything substantial.
-
I thought pps was obv Town from when he offered to be the lynch because of his role.
-
I thought pps was obv Town from when he offered to be the lynch because of his role.
I think scum!PPS is completely capable of doing that.
-
Faust is definitely the fourth scummiest alive for me.
-
Faust is definitely the fourth scummiest alive for me.
On the plus side, I am like the eighth towniest! And given that we have 2 ICs, I am almost as towny as I am scummy...
Can you explain why you think I'm scum?
-
I find your reasons for shooting PPS unconvincing as I felt him incredibly likely to be town. I disagree that scum!pps would gambit the self lynch. So far you have attempted to vig 3 townies and each time I have felt there were better, scummier looking targets.
-
A townie can certainly hit 3/3 town members on vig shots. But a scum member will almost always do so.
-
and now i should go doublecheck who you attempted to vig when roleblocked... not actually 100% on them being town...
IT WAS A TOWNSLIP NOT A SCUMSLIP etc.
-
I find your reasons for shooting PPS unconvincing as I felt him incredibly likely to be town. I disagree that scum!pps would gambit the self lynch. So far you have attempted to vig 3 townies and each time I have felt there were better, scummier looking targets.
So I'm scum because our reads don't match?
My N1 target was sudgy btw, still a decent chance of scum there I think.
I will state that, if nothing else, PPS is the townie that scum wants to die the least.
-
So I'm scum because our reads don't match?
Yea pretty much. Our reads don't match and you kept Vigging town members. Seems like fourth most scummy person is an entirely reasonable place to put you, no?
-
Confirming no result from my investigation last night.
So how exactly was that information worth holding back? And why do you post, but don't answer my questions?
I'm fairly certain I did answer your questions.
As for holding it back, if Galz claimed to jail someone else, that would give me more information.
How does that depend on who claims first?
If I have a result and he says he jailed me, he's lying. If I claim I have a result, he won't say he jailed me.
-
I will just point out, specifically, the questions left unanswered:
- How are there 3 deaths tonight if I am no vig?
- How did you manage to believe in a Werewolf theory that doesn't hold up to even a couple of seconds of thought and setup reading?
- How was it beneficial for anyone but yourself to not claim your result immediately?
- Who did you (try to) investigate last night?
Ok, let's break this down.
Question #1 -- I don't know how many deaths there will be tonight, as that's the future. Also, even if you were a vig, you don't have shots, so you are just a VT, so I'm not sure how that's relevant.
But let's assume, out of kindness, that you are talking about last night. Why is anyone at all focused on the number 3? The question anyone should be asking is why there were 2 deaths last night.
The hider died last night. There are multiple ways that can happen, but being killed by another player is extremely unlikely. So, the Hider killed himself. That's that, and there's no real reason to discuss the "why" of that death. The SA vs. II thing is important.
So, can we all now agree that the focus needs to stop being on three deaths?
Question #2 -- the WW theory only doesn't hold up because we now know there are no WWs. When the possibility they existed was still in play, the theory was valid and good.
Question #3 -- ask Jimmmm about this tactic. You may not have been a mafia player yet when it happened. Interactions by caught scum when they don't know they are caught can be very revealing.
Question #4 -- Galz.
-
Question #1 -- I don't know how many deaths there will be tonight, as that's the future. Also, even if you were a vig, you don't have shots, so you are just a VT, so I'm not sure how that's relevant.
Clearly I meant the night that has just passed. Stop the bullshit.
-
No third death can happen without me being the vig ::)
-
Question #2 -- the WW theory only doesn't hold up because we now know there are no WWs. When the possibility they existed was still in play, the theory was valid and good.
False. As pointed out, I cannot both have won a slot and have been converted to a Werewolf. Only VTs get converted to Werewolf.
-
So I'm scum because our reads don't match?
Yea pretty much. Our reads don't match and you kept Vigging town members. Seems like fourth most scummy person is an entirely reasonable place to put you, no?
I guess I can see that. But I like to think that my vig targets would have ended up being lynched at some point anyway. Cuzz had 8 votes the night before he died, it's not like he was a beacon of townieness.
-
No third death can happen without me being the vig ::)
Couldn't PPS technically have been poisoned N2?
I believe with great confidence that you're the vig, but I don't necessarily believe that you're town. Your arguments with ash are good evidence for you not being a WW, but we don't need to worry about any third-faction people left in the game anyway, so it's only relevant as far as picking apart ash's earlier arguments goes, and importantly it's not at all relevant for any discussions about why you may or may not be mafia.
-
No third death can happen without me being the vig ::)
Couldn't PPS technically have been poisoned N2?
I believe with great confidence that you're the vig, but I don't necessarily believe that you're town. Your arguments with ash are good evidence for you not being a WW, but we don't need to worry about any third-faction people left in the game anyway, so it's only relevant as far as picking apart ash's earlier arguments goes, and importantly it's not at all relevant for any discussions about why you may or may not be mafia.
Yes, the WW thing is mostly important because it shows ash to be mafia. I think he prepared a different claim than he was forced to do now.
Inventor is in the same slot as Role Cop though, so that explanation only really works if ashersky is lying scum.
-
Rereading iguana:
- starts out with some fluff. First suspicion is on ashersky for SK hunting.
- townread on Jake
- a little hedginess on TWM, then votes J Reggie
- makes an actual case on J Reggie too.
- later goes after Galzria, which is convenient as it allows him to leave the Reggie wagon
- okay, nevermind, he re-votes. That is also his last D1 post.
So D1 we have a pretty standard play; nothing stands out. Some correct reads, some questionable reads.
- he revives his Galzria case (even though he happily abandoned that in favor of Reggie).
- a reads list. Some notable entries: Town on Awaclus, scum on RR and Dylan, defends ash without calling him towny, scum on Jake & mcmc. The whole insistence on Galzria thing is something I don't like.
- he is trying to create a narrative for scum!mcmc. Uh, not good.
- joins the Cuzz wagon, states he would also vote for me, then votes Andrew (all town)
Okay, D2 looks a lot worse I think.
- on D3, he tries to agrue that there can be no Bus Driver. Well mafia would know that they don't have the role.
- pushes a scum narrative on TWM
- puts some work into orchestrating the mass claim. Easy activity for scum.
- his claim comes pretty late
Some scummy things, but mostly I just don't find any solid evidence that would put iguana in the town camp.
-
Space reread:
- they vote mcmc over TWM and J Reggie, which I guess does not say a lot.
- asks stuff about claiming, which is mildly towny. It is pretty excessive too.
- later joins on the J Reggie wagon. This is also their last post on D1.
Not a lot there yet, but I feel a genuine drive to figure stuff out.
- D2 starts with not a lot of content
- a town read on Jimmmm (good!)
- partly OMGUS vote for Cuzz
And that's that. I think Space really steps up activity on D3, so let's see what's there.
- says that gkrieg was likely high on the draft, which is kinda bad given the N1 kill
- a lot of mass claim enforcement. Not really an alignment tell I think.
- suspects e a fair bit, which is correct, but you know.
- pushes to finish the claiming before ending the day. Pro-town, but easy to fake.
- strongly implies that RR/e are mafia and Calamitas' partners, which scum would know to be untrue. Mild town points.
- they are like, really invested in getting as much info as possible. Towny.
Overall, Space is a lot townier than iguana.
-
I think Space really steps up activity on D3, so let's see what's there.
Just in case anyone else is worried about mcmc's last piece of advice:
I expect people who changed the amount they posted after the hammer hero claim are likely scummy.
-- I just went back to double-check when the HH claim happened, and it's at #1863 in D2, so well before we got to the D3 threshold of me feeling like I had a good plan to win us the game.
Anyone who doubts how genuine I am about the claim stuff should look at RMM37 (Worms), where I was pushing really hard for a very similar claiming strategy, except that the bidding phase happened separately every day. Notably there, e was really dead against the claiming even though he was town and I feel like it lost us that game (faust poked other holes in my play; my opinion of my plan may have been biased), so his initial resistance to the claims here in D3 didn't surprise me at all, so actually I started out giving him the benefit of the doubt a bit.
In contrast, iguana played along reasonably well with the claims plan, which makes me worry that he knew he had a strong fakeclaim lined up. That might tell us something about likely partners in itself, though.
(Ash is the notable other who played along very badly with the claiming exercise. I still want to see him lynched).
-
Faust is definitely the fourth scummiest alive for me.
On the plus side, I am like the eighth towniest! And given that we have 2 ICs, I am almost as towny as I am scummy...
Which specific two ICs are you referring to here?
-
Faust is definitely the fourth scummiest alive for me.
On the plus side, I am like the eighth towniest! And given that we have 2 ICs, I am almost as towny as I am scummy...
Which specific two ICs are you referring to here?
Awaclus and Jimmmm
-
Question #2 -- the WW theory only doesn't hold up because we now know there are no WWs. When the possibility they existed was still in play, the theory was valid and good.
False. As pointed out, I cannot both have won a slot and have been converted to a Werewolf. Only VTs get converted to Werewolf.
This is correct, and I concede the point that my theory appears to not have been right. I literally didn't know this, because I'm not a WW, nor did I look at WW roles because I wasn't an SK or a VT.
-
Your arguments with ash are good evidence for you not being a WW...
Also, the SK flipping is good evidence.
-
No third death can happen without me being the vig ::)
As others have pointed out, there are other ways for players to die. And just because something is in a slot where a role was won doesn't mean it didn't end up in a random slot.
Scum lies, you know. So some of the players are lying about what roles and slots they got.
-
No third death can happen without me being the vig ::)
As others have pointed out, there are other ways for players to die. And just because something is in a slot where a role was won doesn't mean it didn't end up in a random slot.
Scum lies, you know. So some of the players are lying about what roles and slots they got.
So maybe you should vote for Jake or Galzria who won the random slots. They have confirmed each other's claims, so they're probably both scum anyway ::)
-
Having reread some portion of the game I must admit that I never could and can not now read Space. I mean, sure, they're townie, did townie stuff, pushed people who didn't want to claim or slowed the claim down, but still, this is null!Space.
iguana's scummy tho, but I am very aware of Space. By the way they both may be scum
-
null!Space.
I think the more general term is kernel.
-
null!Space.
I think the more general term is kernel.
^ upvote
-
Your arguments with ash are good evidence for you not being a WW...
Also, the SK flipping is good evidence.
And if you'd quoted the whole of my sentence, that's exactly what I went on to say! Why even bother responding to me out of context like that?
-
So one of Ashersky and Faust are scum, and one of Iguana and Space are scum. Can we keep the lynchpool to them four?
-
So one of Ashersky and Faust are scum, and one of Iguana and Space are scum. Can we keep the lynchpool to them four?
All four of them might be scum actially
-
So one of Ashersky and Faust are scum, and one of Iguana and Space are scum. Can we keep the lynchpool to them four?
All four of them might be scum actially
It's possible! So you want to lynch one of them today?
-
So one of Ashersky and Faust are scum, and one of Iguana and Space are scum. Can we keep the lynchpool to them four?
All four of them might be scum actially
It's possible! So you want to lynch one of them today?
Yes, ashersky.
-
I want to lynch faust today. If Ashersky is town we lose so much, but if Faust is town we lose a named townie.
-
I want to lynch faust today. If Ashersky is town we lose so much, but if Faust is town we lose a named townie.
I generally agree with this - Ash is almost certainly scum. I would say like, 80%+. But if somehow we're wrong we lose our only investigative town member that can catch scum in a claiming lie.
On the flip side if we lynch Ash and he's town, we can lynch Faust tomorrow and still make the trade - which is ok'ish.
Eh... The question becomes do we lynch to potentially protect town PR's (town!Ash), or do we lynch highly likely scum (scum!Ash).
I think I prefer to lynch Ash... But I'm going to feel like an absolute tool if he's town.
-
Well I am a town, so obviously it sucks that anyone would reread and find me scummy. It seems like the case against me is mainly that I haven't committed really hard to playing and well I don't regret that at all - It afforded me the luxury to have a life outside this game.
As for Faust / Ash, I think they are both scum. The whole thing stinks of a gambit to me. And again probably one of Galz or Jake is on the team too.
-
Just to look over the math, assuming one kill per night:
There are 13 alive right now. SK is dead, one of 5 Mafia are dead.
9 Town alive
4 Mafia alive
If we lynch Ash (or faust) and they're town, and Mafia kills somebody tonight then we open d5 at:
7 Town, 4 Mafia
We would probably then lynch the other of the above pair - given they can't really both be town, right? That should drop the number of Mafia to 3, followed by another town kill that night. d6 would then open with:
6 Town, 3 Mafia
If we choose to go with the Igu/Space situation next, and again hit town (followed by a nk), we enter d7 with:
4 Town, 3 Mafia
At that point we'll need to run the table on Mafia lynched. 3 days of LyLo. Not where we want to be.
So we really need to hit scum in the first of the pairs at least once. One time would give us a d7 of:
5 Town, 2 Mafia
Both times would give us:
7 Town, 2 Mafia.
All of this is based on roles/claims as we understand them (No unforeseen kills coming).
Given I'm FAR more convinced Ash is scum compared to Faust vs the Iguana/Space situation, I definitely feel we should lynch Ash here instead of faust.
-
So one of Ashersky and Faust are scum
I'm not convincd of this at all. Did I miss an actual case (apart from on each other)?
-
So one of Ashersky and Faust are scum
I'm not convincd of this at all. Did I miss an actual case (apart from on each other)?
Ash claimed that one night when he wasn't jailed by Galz to have received a no result on his rolecop of faust, which would indicate faust is investigation immune instead of vig. Both of those are in slot 1, so if ash is telling the truth, faust is scum.
-
So one of Ashersky and Faust are scum
I'm not convincd of this at all. Did I miss an actual case (apart from on each other)?
Ash claimed that one night when he wasn't jailed by Galz to have received a no result on his rolecop of faust, which would indicate faust is investigation immune instead of vig. Both of those are in slot 1, so if ash is telling the truth, faust is scum.
Oh okay.
-
So one of Ashersky and Faust are scum, and one of Iguana and Space are scum. Can we keep the lynchpool to them four?
I honestly don't know how ashersky and me would be tied together.
-
On the flip side if we lynch Ash and he's town, we can lynch Faust tomorrow and still make the trade - which is ok'ish.
Ash flipping town has no bearing on my alignment.
-
given they can't really both be town, right?
False.
I mean ashersky will most likely flip scum, but this is setting up mislynches. I think I said some time that scum doesn't actually do this, and I have no particular reason to think this comes from scum!Galzria, but it is a kind of thing that scum will gladly jump on.
-
So one of Ashersky and Faust are scum
I'm not convincd of this at all. Did I miss an actual case (apart from on each other)?
Ash claimed that one night when he wasn't jailed by Galz to have received a no result on his rolecop of faust, which would indicate faust is investigation immune instead of vig. Both of those are in slot 1, so if ash is telling the truth, faust is scum.
Except there is no way I cannot be the vig unless both Jake and Galzria lied and are scum too.
-
I mean people who want a 1v1 trade should definitely go for Space/iguana. People distracting from that and implying that ash/me would be a 1v1 trade too are wrong and scummy.
-
Not to mention that Space/iguana has no chance of lynching a town PR at all, and a decent chance of lynching a scum PR. Lynching me has zero chance of lynching a scum PR (even if you believe I'm scum).
-
As for Faust / Ash, I think they are both scum. The whole thing stinks of a gambit to me. And again probably one of Galz or Jake is on the team too.
Can you back this up at all?
-
How did this game turn so quiet all of the sudden?
-
Vote Count 4.3
ashersky (4): faust, LaLight, sudgy, JaketheBaseballGod22
faust (1): ashersky
SpaceAnemone (1): iguanaiguana
iguanaiguana (1): SpaceAnemone
Not Voting (6): Awaclus, Dylan32, RoadRunner7671, Galzria, Jimmmmm, O
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Day 4 ends Wednesday, June 14 at 1 pm.
-
How did this game turn so quiet all of the sudden?
I'm ill, and I was busy last night, which are my two excuses.
More excitingly, I'm in the middle of compiling a re-read of some stuff now that I've got some free time this evening, so I'll post that in a while.
-
given they can't really both be town, right?
False.
I mean ashersky will most likely flip scum, but this is setting up mislynches. I think I said some time that scum doesn't actually do this, and I have no particular reason to think this comes from scum!Galzria, but it is a kind of thing that scum will gladly jump on.
The only situation I can conceive where you're both town is if there is a scum Roleblocker who blocked Ash N1 giving him a No Result then too. Or I guess if 2.7 drove Ash to someone else (highly unlikely).
But then said Roleblocker probably would've blocked me last night to prevent me from protecting mcmc. This would've meant that Ash would be free to investigate me and see that I'm the JK, as well as allow Jake to Track Ash.
The only other way is if they have Strongman & Roleblocker - They could've Strongmanned mcmc, and Roleblocked Jake to prevent Tracking.
But really... Ash is probably scum. I'll grant you that to claim a scum!Faust with a town!Ash flip will require a reevaluation of NK's - so it's not automatic, but...
The problem I have with Ash's claim is that it doesn't align with like, anything we know or believe to be accurate at this point and requires multiple other things going on that we're unaware of. And that's true for town!Faust or scum!faust.
-
Completely Irrelevant and contentless post count:
Galzria: 142
faust: 330
LaLight: 219
Awaclus: 82
Space: 114
Dylan: 98
RoadR: 132
Iguana: 101
Jimmm: 75
O: 295
Ashersky: 112
Jake: 107
Sudgy: 67
-
Now, what I didn't look at with Ash/Faust or Iguana/Space is scum/scum pairs - but I'm not honestly sure what the best way to assess those likelihoods are and would rather focus on one at a time unless something gives solid reason to believe scum/scum is likely.
-
given they can't really both be town, right?
False.
I mean ashersky will most likely flip scum, but this is setting up mislynches. I think I said some time that scum doesn't actually do this, and I have no particular reason to think this comes from scum!Galzria, but it is a kind of thing that scum will gladly jump on.
The only situation I can conceive where you're both town is if there is a scum Roleblocker who blocked Ash N1 giving him a No Result then too. Or I guess if 2.7 drove Ash to someone else (highly unlikely).
But then said Roleblocker probably would've blocked me last night to prevent me from protecting mcmc. This would've meant that Ash would be free to investigate me and see that I'm the JK, as well as allow Jake to Track Ash.
The only other way is if they have Strongman & Roleblocker - They could've Strongmanned mcmc, and Roleblocked Jake to prevent Tracking.
But really... Ash is probably scum. I'll grant you that to claim a scum!Faust with a town!Ash flip will require a reevaluation of NK's - so it's not automatic, but...
The problem I have with Ash's claim is that it doesn't align with like, anything we know or believe to be accurate at this point and requires multiple other things going on that we're unaware of. And that's true for town!Faust or scum!faust.
I don't get you at all. From your perspective, literally the only way that I am not a vig (and ash town) is if Jake is lying scum and actually a scum inventor or vig. Should ash flip town, you should a) believe that he was blocked N1, in which case his results have no bearing whatsoever on my alignment. b) believe that he wasn't blocked, in which case you should lynch Jake.
-
Hey, this game suddenly got slow!
I want to summarise what evidence ash has about faust being scum, based on the fact-arguments he's actually given. If he'd like to weigh in and correct me if I'm wrong, that's great.
Here's a mention from ash quite early on about faust perhaps being a WW:
So Faust and Gala are partners here, pretty much.
Can you expand on this? Seems like a risky move to tie themselves together so much so soon. Desperate times, I guess, especially if they are WW together.
Then, at the very start of the second phase of the mass-claiming exercise, when most people had only claimed VT/non-VT and bidding position, and Jake had just claimed Tracker:
I have a counterclaim thing of sorts, if folks want to kill the massclaim now. Plenty of info already.
From my perspective, I think at least two and maybe three scum have outed themselves, not including the RR/2.7 thing.
And he remains really eager to cancel the rest of the claiming exercise without getting to the point where we force scum into a corner with contradictions or having to report results:
I have a counterclaim thing of sorts, if folks want to kill the massclaim now. Plenty of info already.
I dunno... if we get all the VTs to claim slots, then we could force out other errors. I'd prefer we complete the exercise rather than leaving it half-done with all this info out there already for scum.
Could be. I'm not really caring much about draft order, and we know all the slots now. There should be enough information for PRs to know what's what at this point, no? Like me.
Here's an information post, though it follows a lot of dragging-of-feet and being missing from the game and he says he's still not actually caught up:
I am here, but not caught up on the last however many pages -- just skimmed some the more recent stuff yesterday.
If someone can tell me if there's more to the RR/2.7 thing than I'm understanding, I'd appreciate it. They both claimed the exact same draft position and slot, correct? And neither has even tried to correct themselves? So one has to be lying.
So that's nice.
As for my information, I can still claim, although deadline is much closer than I expected. I am directly countering someone, and I believe it very strongly suggests the existence of WWs (instead of just an SK) and who one or both are.
While that's important, if it isn't going to change the outcome of today's lynch (my info does not touch on RR/2.7), it seems better to save the info until tomorrow for a few reasons:
--if you think I'm lying, I'm easily blocked or dead tonight anyway
--if I die, my flip will tell you everything you need to know anyway
I'm going to go catch up now, as much as I can for now.
Okay, so he goes on to claim role-cop, but here he's saying that his death will tell us everything you need to know, which is emphatically not true of role-cop results if the cop dies before claiming. Even if we'd read what he wrote about faust, it would only implicate faust and not whichever person was his "definite" ash-is-so-sure-he's-practically-IC partner. Recall that when he first made a "reveal" post, he'd said that "at least two and maybe three scum have outed themselves".
Next, he drops down to saying he can confirm one scum, maybe two:
I'm in the enviable position of having useful information that confirms one scum and maybe two. And, I can die tonight and you still get this information.
This isn't a hider not appropriately allowing for town to know who I hid behind and dying without use. This isn't a cop getting a result they can only share with the spectator QT.
I'm found money at this point. The information I've leaked has me in scum's crosshairs, but they know killing me will out them definitively.
Basically, I've lived up to my proclamation from the beginning of the game. I'll need to thank Jimmmmm (of all people) in my MVP acceptance speech.
Did he ever explain all this Jimmmmm stuff he keeps going on about? I haven't actually noticed it in my re-read, but it wouldn't surprise me if he's throwing in references to long-ago play just to confuse the newerbies like me.
Mcmc's on the right track, btw. I definitely feel no need to give scum further info here -- if I'm dead you'll see why, if I live I'll explain why.
I'm at a very high level of confidence here, which is not a normal stance for my play. I honestly feel like an IC.
-- Again, this thing about him being dead explaining everything makes no sense with his later revelations.
Ash's next line of argument seems to centre around faust not actually being the vig after all, which seems exceedingly unlikely given that the fact we had three deaths last night means there pretty much has to be a vig present, or an inventor who poisoned someone the previous night, since all other methods by which someone might be dead seem to have been used up by this point
No surprise Faust comes out swinging. He knows he's caught.
I won Role Cop.
N1 AND N2 I investigated faust. I received No Result both times. After the way D2 progressed, it became clear to me that he won his claimed slot but bid on investigation immune. Given his propensity for being everyone's favorite night target -- I copped him, after all -- this makes perfect sense.
He fakeclaimed something safe from the same slot he won. I was convinced he was WW with Galz due to this tactic, which makes sense if you look at the JK slot. Galz won the conversion, faked JK; Faust joined him, faked Vig.
The SK existing helps Galz only slightly in my opinion -- the WW thing was based on his clear ties to Faust as well as the twin claiming, so he could still be Mafia with Faust, of course. And the jailing could be completely false, or true, if they are partners. But Faust I know for sure must be lying (unless I was jailed/blocked N1, as an edge case).
I am holding off my N3 result (you know why) until I see some flailing from Faust. And by flailing I mean angry and flabbergasted at the idiocy of it all Faust, because that's what caught faust does to get out of trouble. (We are kind of alike sometimes).
vote: faust
I do agree that faust's vig choices don't look great from my perspective:
Faust has stated that he has killed two towny players who no actual town Vig would ever want to kill.
Huge town mistakes, as O says? From arguably the best mafia player on the board? Highly doubtful. If he's actually Town (he's not), this is easily his worst performance, ever. But it's not.
There's no doubt he had a strong hand in killing those towny players. He ordered them.
-- I don't actually understand what ash is trying to imply with the last line of the above quote, though.
Another suggestion that faust isn't really a vig:
Also, what benefit do I get from lying here?
I'm the much townier player, I have the actual result. If I'm lying I get a 1-for-1 trade with a VT?
The fact that faust has not even considered that fact means he's not really the Vig.
Out for the night. Back tomorrow.
I also heartily disagree with any notion that he's a townie player.
As for the N3 claiming, ash refuses to take part at first, even though it was suggested that he should go first (he does eventually offer some after-the-fact justification about trying to avoid scum lies; I suspect he needed the info to make sure his lies aren't caught). So, Galz claims to have tracked Ash at #3472, and then at #3478, Jake claims to have tracked ash, getting "No Result". Only after these claims does ash confirm he had no result, and only after further prompting from faust at #3490 does he actually tell us who his supposed role-cop target was at #3504.
Ash makes a big long argumentative/defensive post at #3486, which deserves its own treatment really, but his "look at all the evidence I'm townie" opening section is full of holes and lacking in solid evidence. It's sort of continued at #3504: his response to faust deliberately takes the questions entirely the wrong way, seems upset that people are interested in having lost three townies last night, and then attempts to re-focus onto me-vs-iguana before the end of his answer about why there should even have been two deaths (which was asked in response to ash accusing faust of not being the vig).
Question #2 -- the WW theory only doesn't hold up because we now know there are no WWs. When the possibility they existed was still in play, the theory was valid and good.
False. As pointed out, I cannot both have won a slot and have been converted to a Werewolf. Only VTs get converted to Werewolf.
This is correct, and I concede the point that my theory appears to not have been right. I literally didn't know this, because I'm not a WW, nor did I look at WW roles because I wasn't an SK or a VT.
-- one last quote, which I feel just undermines the whole lot of "I'm so IC" certainty with which Ash started his hinting and claiming about how he'd got evidence directly implicating werewolves in particular.
Maybe I didn't need to go through this whole exercise because surely he's scummy enough that other people see it well too. What I'd actually wanted (and still want, really!) was for ash to write up all his evidence and current story about how he thinks the game has gone, explaining his overblown WW confidence and early comments about maybe having outed three scums etc. I don't want to delay the game waiting for it, though, so I wanted to piece together what I could see for myself. I don't think it hangs together very well.
Vote: ashersky (L-2)
-
Well, that was a pretty crappy night for us.
Is Awaclus V/LA? This is his only post of d4.
-
Well, that was a pretty crappy night for us.
Is Awaclus V/LA? This is his only post of d4.
No, he's posting elsewhere on the forum, so he's definitely around.
He's an IC here, though, so I guess he'll wade in at the end rather than getting messed up in the arguments. He tends to want to see other people saying things in case they scumslip, I think... he has quite non-standard views on how good play should look.
-
Well, that was a pretty crappy night for us.
Is Awaclus V/LA? This is his only post of d4.
No, he's posting elsewhere on the forum, so he's definitely around.
He's an IC here, though, so I guess he'll wade in at the end rather than getting messed up in the arguments. He tends to want to see other people saying things in case they scumslip, I think... he has quite non-standard views on how good play should look.
Yeah, I was just wondering if we should request a prod or not. Game has come to a crawl and time is burning by. I'll be mostly out all weekend so I was hoping for some action yesterday/today :(
Everybody else has posted at least once in the past 48 hours.
-
Well some other people could post some thoughts on Space vs iguana. We probably don't want to decide today between them, but it doesn't hurt to figure this out now, all the ashersky talk isn't leading to a lot, he's just caught scum.
-
I think I can cover posting for him if y'all need it.
O is scum and you're all logically misplaying by trying to lynch Ashersky, the case on O is obvious.
I'm ready to L-1 Ashersky if we think we're done with relevant discussion. The game seems to have slowed down substantially.
PPE: Faust wants more discussion
-
I think I can cover posting for him if y'all need it.
O is scum and you're all logically misplaying by trying to lynch Ashersky, the case on O is obvious.
I'm ready to L-1 Ashersky if we think we're done with relevant discussion. The game seems to have slowed down substantially.
PPE: Faust wants more discussion
What a fantastic case!!! Why didn't I see it until now? Obviously we should all sheep and vote: O!!!
... Or not. unvote
-
I'd like at least for Jimmmmm and Awaclus to have a chance to share anything they want to share before we end the day, given that they are the most likely deaths tonight.
-
So one of Ashersky and Faust are scum
I'm not convincd of this at all. Did I miss an actual case (apart from on each other)?
Ash claimed that one night when he wasn't jailed by Galz to have received a no result on his rolecop of faust, which would indicate faust is investigation immune instead of vig. Both of those are in slot 1, so if ash is telling the truth, faust is scum.
Oh okay.
Jimmmmm, did you have any more thoughts on this?
-
I think I can cover posting for him if y'all need it.
O is scum and you're all logically misplaying by trying to lynch Ashersky, the case on O is obvious.
I'm ready to L-1 Ashersky if we think we're done with relevant discussion. The game seems to have slowed down substantially.
PPE: Faust wants more discussion
Yes, I think it's interesting to see who's willing to vote for ashersky, and getting the night phase over and done with when people are quiet over the weekend anyway seems like a great idea to me!
From memory, both iguana and RR were pushing more for faust, believing ash's story and apparently believing it's an either-or sort of situation. If we have any more discussion, I'd quite like to see those two chip in with opinions on ash.
Update: iguana did actually say he thought ash was scummy, but he seems to want to vote me over ash. RR very definitely said he wants to take out faust and not ash, though... given that the two of them are not in a true 1v1 the way iguana and I are, that's something I'd like to see explained.
PPE: faust also has a good point about giving our ICs a chance to say stuff before we risk losing them.
-
I want to lynch faust today. If Ashersky is town we lose so much, but if Faust is town we lose a named townie.
Road, how strongly do you feel about this?
-
Regarding iguana vs space, I have a gut townread on space, so would probably rather lynch iguana. I'll look more into them when the decision needs to be made.
-
So one of Ashersky and Faust are scum, and one of Iguana and Space are scum. Can we keep the lynchpool to them four?
All four of them might be scum actially
What do you think the odds are that either/both of the pairs are scum/scum and why?
-
So I'm scum because our reads don't match?
Yea pretty much. Our reads don't match and you kept Vigging town members. Seems like fourth most scummy person is an entirely reasonable place to put you, no?
How strongly do you feel about this? Do you think Ash/Faust are both scum?
-
Confirming no result from my investigation last night.
So how exactly was that information worth holding back? And why do you post, but don't answer my questions?
I'm fairly certain I did answer your questions.
As for holding it back, if Galz claimed to jail someone else, that would give me more information.
How does that depend on who claims first?
If I have a result and he says he jailed me, he's lying. If I claim I have a result, he won't say he jailed me.
How would me claiming to jail someone else give you more information? You seem to suggest that you then could have claimed a result - but you didn't have one (by your own admission). Had I claimed to jail mcmc what would that tell you? What would you have claimed then?
-
Well I am a town, so obviously it sucks that anyone would reread and find me scummy. It seems like the case against me is mainly that I haven't committed really hard to playing and well I don't regret that at all - It afforded me the luxury to have a life outside this game.
As for Faust / Ash, I think they are both scum. The whole thing stinks of a gambit to me. And again probably one of Galz or Jake is on the team too.
Can you expand on "And again probably one of Galz or Jake is on the team too."
-
From my previous posts it sounds like O, LaLight and Iguana all believe Faust & Ash both to be scum.
If they are in fact both scum it doesn't seem like the best of gambit for them.
-
From my previous posts it sounds like O, LaLight and Iguana all believe Faust & Ash both to be scum.
If they are in fact both scum it doesn't seem like the best of gambit for them.
How come? Ashersky was likely getting lynched regardless.
Why do you think Faust has consistently vigged town members?
Why have you consistently Jailkept poor targets, if Faust is town?
Like today's makes no sense to me. Even with your WIFOM positing on MCMC we'd at least have confirmation of a strongman, whereas Jailkeeping "my info on two scum comes out regardless of whether I die or not certainly couldn't have achieved much.
-
Well, that was a pretty crappy night for us.
Is Awaclus V/LA? This is his only post of d4.
No, just busy (not so busy anymore) and there has been too many posts in this game again.
-
given they can't really both be town, right?
False.
I mean ashersky will most likely flip scum, but this is setting up mislynches. I think I said some time that scum doesn't actually do this, and I have no particular reason to think this comes from scum!Galzria, but it is a kind of thing that scum will gladly jump on.
The only situation I can conceive where you're both town is if there is a scum Roleblocker who blocked Ash N1 giving him a No Result then too. Or I guess if 2.7 drove Ash to someone else (highly unlikely).
But then said Roleblocker probably would've blocked me last night to prevent me from protecting mcmc. This would've meant that Ash would be free to investigate me and see that I'm the JK, as well as allow Jake to Track Ash.
The only other way is if they have Strongman & Roleblocker - They could've Strongmanned mcmc, and Roleblocked Jake to prevent Tracking.
But really... Ash is probably scum. I'll grant you that to claim a scum!Faust with a town!Ash flip will require a reevaluation of NK's - so it's not automatic, but...
The problem I have with Ash's claim is that it doesn't align with like, anything we know or believe to be accurate at this point and requires multiple other things going on that we're unaware of. And that's true for town!Faust or scum!faust.
I don't get you at all. From your perspective, literally the only way that I am not a vig (and ash town) is if Jake is lying scum and actually a scum inventor or vig. Should ash flip town, you should a) believe that he was blocked N1, in which case his results have no bearing whatsoever on my alignment. b) believe that he wasn't blocked, in which case you should lynch Jake.
I believe you just restated what I said:
If Ash flips town, then in order for you to be town he needed to be Roleblocked - that's possible, but currently as unlikely as Ash being town - If he wasn't blocked then his instigation of you is true, which means you're scum and we need to reevaluate NK's.
-
I am around. I am trying to get psyched on how I am the De Fausto mislynch tomorrow but it is not easy.
Vote: Ashersky anyway
Might as well get on with it.
-
From my previous posts it sounds like O, LaLight and Iguana all believe Faust & Ash both to be scum.
If they are in fact both scum it doesn't seem like the best of gambit for them.
How come? Ashersky was likely getting lynched regardless.
Why do you think Faust has consistently vigged town members?
Why have you consistently Jailkept poor targets, if Faust is town?
Like today's makes no sense to me. Even with your WIFOM positing on MCMC we'd at least have confirmation of a strongman, whereas Jailkeeping "my info on two scum comes out regardless of whether I die or not certainly couldn't have achieved much.
I disagree with your first sentiment in general. If it was Ash solo, maybe. But with the collective minds of him and his team I doubt they would've just accepted an Ash lynch today.
To your second point - because he's a Vig shooting [early].
Galzria! Get in here and explain--better than I did--why the Vigilantes should just not shoot please.
I think it's an anti-town role. It hits town far more frequently than scum, and just expedites the trek towards LyLo. Everyone hails a good Vig, but by and large they suck for town.
That doesn't excuse Faust. And he's not conf!town by any means. But bad shots are not inductive to alignment to me. ((PPS was really bad though. The other two... meh. I just disagree)).
Lastly, if they Strongmanned mcmc then I feel that whatever I may have prevented Ash from doing outweighs my knowing for fact that the Strongman exists (where I'm already very confident based on the fact that mcmc died and not me). It's not like my claiming to jail mcmc and him still dying would tell you anything for certain. From your perspective I could still be lying. Or Roleblocked. Or Strongman exists. So much uncertainty. So yeah - it was my choice, and I made the one I feel was correct.
-
Lastly, if they Strongmanned mcmc then I feel that whatever I may have prevented Ash from doing outweighs my knowing for fact that the Strongman exists (where I'm already very confident based on the fact that mcmc died and not me). It's not like my claiming to jail mcmc and him still dying would tell you anything for certain. From your perspective I could still be lying. Or Roleblocked. Or Strongman exists. So much uncertainty. So yeah - it was my choice, and I made the one I feel was correct.
I keep assuming that roles appearing in slots 11-13 must come from slots 1-10 from which one PR was already chosen. I'm not sure where I get that "if another role from that slot was chosen" part, and I'm pretty sure it's not the case. However, if that was true, then the only way there wouldn't be a strongman in the game is if you've lied to us about your role/slot. I'm having a hard time shaking my suspicion of you because of it. Sorry about that!
-
In case it's useful, here's another snippet from my game notes, grouping things by slot. I've starred the slots that nobody as claimed.
Slots and claimed PRs
Slot 1: faust, 2-shot vig.
Slot 2: PPS, restless Sheeper.
*Slot 3: No Claim; assume RB if anything.
Slot 4: Ashersy, Role Cop. (Could also be inventor (or even watcher)).
*Slot 5: No Claim; assume JOAT if anything.
Slot 6: Jimmmmm, Masonic Lover.
*Slot 7: No Claim (Tracker went to slot 12 according to Jake. Other options here are Godfather-er & 1-shot BP).
*Slot 8: No Claim (JK went to 11 according to Galz. Strongman could have been taken from here).
Slot 9: mcmc, Hammer Hero.
Slot 10: TWM, Hider.
Slot 11: Galz, JK.
Slot 12: Jake, Tracker (he says other option was 1-shot commuter).
Slot 13: Apparently went to e, who got 1-shot Bus Driver that had been at slot 6.
My comment next to #8 used to say that it implied there was a strongman if we believe Galz (with my questionable interpretation I mentioned in my earlier post).
Remember that the mafia got to communicate when they picked their slots: they're likely to have spread themselves pretty well across the possibilities, so I think it's really likely that Strongman, RB and JOAT might be out there.
-
I am around. I am trying to get psyched on how I am the De Fausto mislynch tomorrow but it is not easy.
Vote: Ashersky anyway
Might as well get on with it.
This is L-1 btw. Wasn't posted, but please don't hammer until we're sure we're done with discussion.
-
Interesting note on the last two voters for Ash:
Iguana and Space.
If Ash is scum then one of them is now likely bussing.
-
Vote Count 4.3
ashersky (6): faust, LaLight, sudgy, JaketheBaseballGod22, SpaceAnemone, iguanaiguana
faust (1): ashersky
Not Voting (6): Awaclus, Dylan32, RoadRunner7671, Galzria, Jimmmmm, O
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Day 4 ends Wednesday, June 14 at 1 pm.
-
Interesting note on the last two voters for Ash:
Iguana and Space.
If Ash is scum then one of them is now likely bussing.
I've been saying I want to lynch ash for most of the day already, haven't I? The main reason I bothered voting iguana at all was that I didn't want to run the ash wagon to completion till after the claims had come out and been discussed. I think they're both scum, but I think ash is the higher-value target, and he's certainly the easier one to convince everyone else of.
My impression right now is that most of you only think he and I are around 50/50 each. A couple of people have opined that I'm townier now, but mcmc was still scumreading me when he died, in spite of the fact I'd totally driven D3's claiming exercise that outed e and ash, so that's not the greatest endorsement. I don't expect the head-to-head to go entirely smoothly, especially since I was so lost in the early game, and people often scumread me for stuff like that.
I do think that most people must be above 75% on ash being scum by now... and if not, I'd really like to hear about why that is. My hunch is that at least some of the people who're not voting are abstaining because they're not up to date with the game and having actually absorbed what's going on yet.
-
well at least two of us (Galz, me) are clearly withholding to keep discussion open.
-
Yeah. Not saying you or Iguana are scummy for the vote. Just noting it because of the relationship you two share thanks to TWM.
-
well at least two of us (Galz, me) are clearly withholding to keep discussion open.
Yeah,
Jimmm and Awaclus (IC's) haven't been here. O and I are currently waiting. RR has stated a preference to lynch Faust, and Dylan...? I'm not sure about.
-
I'm mostly fine with the Ash lynch, but I'm still not so sure it shouldn't be faust first due to the difference in what town loses if we are wrong in each case. On the other hand, we could just lynch them the next two days to make sure they aren't both scum. At this point, I would honestly be more upset losing because they pulled off this 1v1 gambit as partners and succeeding than I would be losing because we lynch town between the two of them and go on to lose, so I don't really care which of the two we lynch first.
-
I'm mostly fine with the Ash lynch, but I'm still not so sure it shouldn't be faust first due to the difference in what town loses if we are wrong in each case. On the other hand, we could just lynch them the next two days to make sure they aren't both scum. At this point, I would honestly be more upset losing because they pulled off this 1v1 gambit as partners and succeeding than I would be losing because we lynch town between the two of them and go on to lose, so I don't really care which of the two we lynch first.
Because there's 10x better evidence for Ash than faust.
-
Interesting note on the last two voters for Ash:
Iguana and Space.
If Ash is scum then one of them is now likely bussing.
How is that interesting? We're at a point where it's completely clear that there won't be another lynch.
-
People paint me as scummy because I killed two town people, but that's not really all that scummy. I mean we've had two town lynches already; is everyone on these wagons scum? I don't see a big difference here. Also, it's not like people disagreed with my Cuzz case when I posted it.
That's what I would expect from a town faust. It's also probably the biggest case anyone has made so far (I know big != right, but whatever). I'll go ahead and even up the Cuzz and Andrew wagons so the important people can choose, since apparently a bunch of people are scumreading or allegedly pretty willing to lynch sudgy but nobody seems to be actually willing to vote him. Vote: Cuzz
I think for now I will Vote: Cuzz. THIS IS L-2 (I think)
O at least fought it at the time, so his position is believable.
-
I'm mostly fine with the Ash lynch, but I'm still not so sure it shouldn't be faust first due to the difference in what town loses if we are wrong in each case. On the other hand, we could just lynch them the next two days to make sure they aren't both scum. At this point, I would honestly be more upset losing because they pulled off this 1v1 gambit as partners and succeeding than I would be losing because we lynch town between the two of them and go on to lose, so I don't really care which of the two we lynch first.
Why do you think I'm scum? Or do you just want to make extra sure not to be upset? How about this: We have 2 mislynches left. Can you at least hold off lynching me until we used up the first of these? Then you can still lynch me if you must, but I have some chance of living through this if we manage to catch all the scum now.
-
I'm mostly fine with the Ash lynch, but I'm still not so sure it shouldn't be faust first due to the difference in what town loses if we are wrong in each case. On the other hand, we could just lynch them the next two days to make sure they aren't both scum. At this point, I would honestly be more upset losing because they pulled off this 1v1 gambit as partners and succeeding than I would be losing because we lynch town between the two of them and go on to lose, so I don't really care which of the two we lynch first.
How to do you rate the evidence on each of them, in terms of percentage chance of being scum from your perspective?
-
I sudgy VLA or something? I haven't heard anything at all from him lately.
-
Regarding iguana vs space, I have a gut townread on space, so would probably rather lynch iguana. I'll look more into them when the decision needs to be made.
Oh, here's a post. Well he's not exactly very talkative. It doesn't hurt to look into it now, you know.
-
Trying to gather up all reads, town to scum.
Jimmmmm
Awaclus
Roadrunner
Dylan
Galzria (this hinges a bit on ashersky flipping scum)
Jake
Space
LaLight
O
sudgy
iguana
ashersky
-
Cuzz was by and far away my strongest town read to the point that I made jokes about appearing as an obvious scumbuddy IIRC.
Finding me, sudgy and Lalight more scummy than someone who statistically has a >50% scum chance is interesting.
-
Finding me, sudgy and Lalight more scummy than someone who statistically has a >50% scum chance is interesting.
I admit I mostly expect ash and iguana to just flip scum and that influences my reads here.
-
L-1? Seriously?
What a disappointment. Teammates that can actually follow a plan would be nice. Remind me to /out next time I roll scum with LaLight. At least Faust and Galzria put up a valiant show and fight as long as feasible.
2.7 gifted us a way out of the broken setup. One mislynch today and the game was won. Given our numbers and the misdirects in play, we had this. FYI, telling scum the contents of the random slots turned out to be way OP.
The hilarious thing is we could still end up winning in spite of this tragedy because the town has played so terribly, too.
I wouldn't bother killing Awaclus or Jimmmmm tonight, bussing me unnecessarily skewed the numbers back in town's favor, so the inactivity of the ICs in more helpful than worrying about the POE.
vote: ashersky and good riddance to this disappointing "all-star" game.
-
Thread locked.
-
Vote Count 4.4
ashersky (7): faust, LaLight, sudgy, JaketheBaseballGod22, SpaceAnemone, iguanaiguana, ashersky
Not Voting (6): Awaclus, Dylan32, RoadRunner7671, Galzria, Jimmmmm, O
With 13 alive it took 7 to lynch.
-
I mean raerae even scum slipped right before the end... I was so convinced
THAT WASN'T A SCUM SLIP!!!
YOU CALLED THE TOWN "THEM"!
(Raerae was town.)
Ashersky, the Mafia Goon, has been lynched.
Night 4 begins now. All players must check-in with me during Night 4 by posting in their personal or shared QTs. Failure to do so could result in modkill. Actions are due within 48 hours. Day 5 begins Monday, June 12, at 11:00 AM Forum Time.
-
I'm waiting for Galz to say whether he concurs with me--I suspect he will--but yes, our specific, secret case against mail-mi seems to have been erroneous. Thanks for helping, Voltgloss.
OK, now can somebody explain what the hell happened? :P Or is still super-secret even if it was likely erroneous?
No. Still secret, and staying that way. Sorry.
JaketheBaseballGod22, the Town-Aligned Tracker, has been killed.
DAY 5 START!
THREAD UNLOCKED.
-
Vote Count 5.1
Not Voting (11): Awaclus, Dylan32, RoadRunner7671, Galzria, Jimmmmm, O, faust, LaLight, sudgy, SpaceAnemone, iguanaiguana
With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Day 5 ends Monday, June 19, at 11:00 AM Forum Time.
-
L-1? Seriously?
What a disappointment. Teammates that can actually follow a plan would be nice. Remind me to /out next time I roll scum with LaLight. At least Faust and Galzria put up a valiant show and fight as long as feasible.
2.7 gifted us a way out of the broken setup. One mislynch today and the game was won. Given our numbers and the misdirects in play, we had this. FYI, telling scum the contents of the random slots turned out to be way OP.
The hilarious thing is we could still end up winning in spite of this tragedy because the town has played so terribly, too.
I wouldn't bother killing Awaclus or Jimmmmm tonight, bussing me unnecessarily skewed the numbers back in town's favor, so the inactivity of the ICs in more helpful than worrying about the POE.
vote: ashersky and good riddance to this disappointing "all-star" game.
Hahahaha. Going out flaming? I got a good laugh at least. Sorry Ash - feel free to tell me I'm wrong after the game, but this entire post feels like "fake-anger-muddy-the-waters-hope-for-the-best" scum tactics.
As I know for a fact that you named at least one town in your "scum partners" list (me), and I still lean 60/40 town on Faust, AND I'm still confident that one of Iguana/Space is scum...
Yeah. I'll be putting zero merit in your post. Maybe one of Faust or LaLight actually is scum. I could see you naming one of three as partners. But it's not worth the WIFOM headache at this time. There's better cases and more likely scum targets.
-
I'll reread Space and Iguana later today or tonight. Outside Iguana calling me scum d1/d2, and Space pushing for claims I don't recall much about either.
-
I wouldn't put any weight on ashersky's post whatsoever.
-
Unfortunately, some things that work out quite mysteriously in timing make me think the LaLight bit of ash's speech may have been genuine.
It is also a breach of the civility pledge.
-
Anyone else believe the Jake kill strongly implies that Galzria is town? If sucm had roleblocking capabilities, I'd think they would rather kill an IC.
-
Unfortunately, some things that work out quite mysteriously in timing make me think the LaLight bit of ash's speech may have been genuine.
It is also a breach of the civility pledge.
I really don't feel comfortable speculating on this topic. It appears he's still in this game so I feel that discussion of this is out of place at this time. I'll weigh his merits on being scum based solely on in game play.
-
Hi.
I am back from vla, too exhausted, too sleepy. Ash's post is despise-worthy, i don't know who might do such a thing even if they is scum. I am not scum, so it double-offended me actually. But i stay in the game.
I will post something tomorrow.
-
Unfortunately, some things that work out quite mysteriously in timing make me think the LaLight bit of ash's speech may have been genuine.
It is also a breach of the civility pledge.
Oh and this is really scummy post. Just to be clear, "some things" have something to do with ash's speech, but it's only one of the reasons and not the main one. Let's not.
Thank you.
-
Unfortunately, some things that work out quite mysteriously in timing make me think the LaLight bit of ash's speech may have been genuine.
It is also a breach of the civility pledge.
Oh and this is really scummy post. Just to be clear, "some things" have something to do with ash's speech, but it's only one of the reasons and not the main one. Let's not.
Thank you.
Sorry. It's just too much of an elephant in the room; it will affect my reads whether I want it or not.
-
I mean, we should lynch iguana today anyway. Vote: iguana
-
Anyone else believe the Jake kill strongly implies that Galzria is town? If sucm had roleblocking capabilities, I'd think they would rather kill an IC.
Who's the IC?
-
Anyone else believe the Jake kill strongly implies that Galzria is town? If sucm had roleblocking capabilities, I'd think they would rather kill an IC.
Who's the IC?
Awaclus and Jimmmmm.
-
Anyone else believe the Jake kill strongly implies that Galzria is town? If sucm had roleblocking capabilities, I'd think they would rather kill an IC.
Who's the IC?
Awaclus and Jimmmmm.
Jimmmmm?
-
Anyone else believe the Jake kill strongly implies that Galzria is town? If sucm had roleblocking capabilities, I'd think they would rather kill an IC.
Who's the IC?
Awaclus and Jimmmmm.
Jimmmmm?
we only had one claim on Eevee's lover, a town aligned role.
At least pretty sure that was jimmmmmm
-
Anyone else believe the Jake kill strongly implies that Galzria is town? If sucm had roleblocking capabilities, I'd think they would rather kill an IC.
Who's the IC?
Awaclus and Jimmmmm.
Jimmmmm?
we only had one claim on Eevee's lover, a town aligned role.
At least pretty sure that was jimmmmmm
Yeah, it was Jim.
I have a final today and tomorrow, but then I'm free from school! I'm going to reread all claim-related things after that to try to wrap my mind around everything that has been happening.
-
Vote: Space
Scum would know this a lot better than town would. Vote: ashersky I think that's L-3.
I'm really busy again over the next couple of days.
PPE L-2
I think at this point, the main people who want to run up a speedy wagon are the scums desperate to get to nighttime again so they can drop another townie and work out how to survive the massclaim. For everyone else, there will be more information to vote on if we go through with the claiming than there is available now.
#2182] -- I'm not quite sure where O is going with this.
multiple subtle attempts to derail the Ashersky wagon without mentioning Ashersky.
-
everyone should could consider rereading D3 and seeing exactly how the Ashersky wagon went nowhere. From my perspective d3 it was pretty obvious he was scum, and now thanks to the magic of post-lynch flips you all can pretend it was too!
-
D2 AND D3 my apologies. Mostly D2, then D3 until we had e's ridiculous claiming situation.
-
D2 AND D3 my apologies. Mostly D2, then D3 until we had e's ridiculous claiming situation.
Totally off-the-walls theory, but what if RR counterclaimed e just to postpone ash's lynch? It's a stupid idea, though.
-
Vote: Space
Scum would know this a lot better than town would. Vote: ashersky I think that's L-3.
I'm really busy again over the next couple of days.
PPE L-2
I think at this point, the main people who want to run up a speedy wagon are the scums desperate to get to nighttime again so they can drop another townie and work out how to survive the massclaim. For everyone else, there will be more information to vote on if we go through with the claiming than there is available now.
#2182] -- I'm not quite sure where O is going with this.
multiple subtle attempts to derail the Ashersky wagon without mentioning Ashersky.
Really? I was pushing for an ash lynch in spite of the fact I know iguana is scum because I wanted ash out of the picture more!
I admit, I'm surprised he flipped goon and not some other PR, because I distinctly recall predicting that ash was the more high-value target because of the way iguana seemed to be trying to push the 1-v-1 between him and me instead of do what I thought was the much more logical thing and push the wagon everyone else would agree on. For example, here's my position at #3576, at which point I'm on the ash wagon and actively asking to hear why others won't tip it past L-1:
Interesting note on the last two voters for Ash:
Iguana and Space.
If Ash is scum then one of them is now likely bussing.
I've been saying I want to lynch ash for most of the day already, haven't I? The main reason I bothered voting iguana at all was that I didn't want to run the ash wagon to completion till after the claims had come out and been discussed. I think they're both scum, but I think ash is the higher-value target, and he's certainly the easier one to convince everyone else of.
My impression right now is that most of you only think he and I are around 50/50 each. A couple of people have opined that I'm townier now, but mcmc was still scumreading me when he died, in spite of the fact I'd totally driven D3's claiming exercise that outed e and ash, so that's not the greatest endorsement. I don't expect the head-to-head to go entirely smoothly, especially since I was so lost in the early game, and people often scumread me for stuff like that.
I do think that most people must be above 75% on ash being scum by now... and if not, I'd really like to hear about why that is. My hunch is that at least some of the people who're not voting are abstaining because they're not up to date with the game and having actually absorbed what's going on yet.
-
I mean, we should lynch iguana today anyway. Vote: iguana
^^^
Vote: iguana
-
@space clearly i'm not referring to day 4, where the actions taken are quite irrelevant as (as you can see by the votes) scum either lurked or bussed Ashersky with us. I'm referring to days 2 and 3.
-
Unfortunately, some things that work out quite mysteriously in timing make me think the LaLight bit of ash's speech may have been genuine.
It is also a breach of the civility pledge.
Oh and this is really scummy post. Just to be clear, "some things" have something to do with ash's speech, but it's only one of the reasons and not the main one. Let's not.
Thank you.
Sorry. It's just too much of an elephant in the room; it will affect my reads whether I want it or not.
Don't overlook the fact that LaLight had posted a total VLA announcement on 8th June (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=3621.msg699295#msg699295) covering 10th-13th June. Ash's post wasn't made until 10th June, when the timing of LL's "conveniently-timed" absence would be available for anyone to read.
I feel really unhappy about ash's post, the motives behind it, and the breach of the civility pledge. But given how nasty it was, I feel no qualms whatsoever about assuming the worst from ash and giving LL the benefit of the doubt to the point that it's not really so much of an elephant in the room after all.
-
Vote: Space
Seems Faust is scum too.
-
everyone should could consider rereading D3 and seeing exactly how the Ashersky wagon went nowhere. From my perspective d3 it was pretty obvious he was scum, and now thanks to the magic of post-lynch flips you all can pretend it was too!
Everyone should reread everything from Space and iguana if they have not already done so.
-
@space clearly i'm not referring to day 4, where the actions taken are quite irrelevant as (as you can see by the votes) scum either lurked or bussed Ashersky with us. I'm referring to days 2 and 3.
Ah, my apologies. This game has more days than I'm used to!
I have no regrets about forcing the claiming process to run its full course before the final lynch in D3, though.. leaving it incomplete was never going to help town more than scum.
-
Vote: Space
Seems Faust is scum too.
Your analysis is top-notch.
-
everyone should could consider rereading D3 and seeing exactly how the Ashersky wagon went nowhere. From my perspective d3 it was pretty obvious he was scum, and now thanks to the magic of post-lynch flips you all can pretend it was too!
Everyone should reread everything from Space and iguana if they have not already done so.
wait iguanas posted?
-
Vote: Space
Seems Faust is scum too.
Your analysis is top-notch.
I'm your pet Iguana 8)
-
Vote: Space
Seems Faust is scum too.
Your analysis is top-notch.
OMGUS is a tried and tested strategy with millennia of history. Who do you think you are to question it?
-
And sorry O, if you want to convince me the Space is scum, it will take more than a single piece of evidence.
-
And sorry O, if you want to convince me the Space is scum, it will take more than a single piece of evidence.
thats one more than you gave. And frankly I'm uninterested in convincing you.
-
And sorry O, if you want to convince me the Space is scum, it will take more than a single piece of evidence.
thats one more than you gave. And frankly I'm uninterested in convincing you.
Here, for your personal convenience:
Rereading iguana:
- starts out with some fluff. First suspicion is on ashersky for SK hunting.
- townread on Jake
- a little hedginess on TWM, then votes J Reggie
- makes an actual case on J Reggie too.
- later goes after Galzria, which is convenient as it allows him to leave the Reggie wagon
- okay, nevermind, he re-votes. That is also his last D1 post.
So D1 we have a pretty standard play; nothing stands out. Some correct reads, some questionable reads.
- he revives his Galzria case (even though he happily abandoned that in favor of Reggie).
- a reads list. Some notable entries: Town on Awaclus, scum on RR and Dylan, defends ash without calling him towny, scum on Jake & mcmc. The whole insistence on Galzria thing is something I don't like.
- he is trying to create a narrative for scum!mcmc. Uh, not good.
- joins the Cuzz wagon, states he would also vote for me, then votes Andrew (all town)
Okay, D2 looks a lot worse I think.
- on D3, he tries to agrue that there can be no Bus Driver. Well mafia would know that they don't have the role.
- pushes a scum narrative on TWM
- puts some work into orchestrating the mass claim. Easy activity for scum.
- his claim comes pretty late
Some scummy things, but mostly I just don't find any solid evidence that would put iguana in the town camp.
Space reread:
- they vote mcmc over TWM and J Reggie, which I guess does not say a lot.
- asks stuff about claiming, which is mildly towny. It is pretty excessive too.
- later joins on the J Reggie wagon. This is also their last post on D1.
Not a lot there yet, but I feel a genuine drive to figure stuff out.
- D2 starts with not a lot of content
- a town read on Jimmmm (good!)
- partly OMGUS vote for Cuzz
And that's that. I think Space really steps up activity on D3, so let's see what's there.
- says that gkrieg was likely high on the draft, which is kinda bad given the N1 kill
- a lot of mass claim enforcement. Not really an alignment tell I think.
- suspects e a fair bit, which is correct, but you know.
- pushes to finish the claiming before ending the day. Pro-town, but easy to fake.
- strongly implies that RR/e are mafia and Calamitas' partners, which scum would know to be untrue. Mild town points.
- they are like, really invested in getting as much info as possible. Towny.
Overall, Space is a lot townier than iguana.
-
ah, you went to work early.
Still it'd all be much more convincing coming from someone i had any confidence in.
-
ah, you went to work early.
Still it'd all be much more convincing coming from someone i had any confidence in.
Just pretend Jimmmmm had posted it ;)
-
ah, you went to work early.
Still it'd all be much more convincing coming from someone i had any confidence in.
Just pretend Jimmmmm had posted it ;)
oh not alignment confidence necessarily. Just the last similarly sized text block I believe was the fantastic case out there on Cuzz, I believe.
I'm more convinced by your one liners than your thesis papers frankly.
-
"i believe" placed twice to assure you i can't speak English properly.
-
ah, you went to work early.
Still it'd all be much more convincing coming from someone i had any confidence in.
Just pretend Jimmmmm had posted it ;)
oh not alignment confidence necessarily. Just the last similarly sized text block I believe was the fantastic case out there on Cuzz, I believe.
I'm more convinced by your one liners than your thesis papers frankly.
I see. Let's try this:
Town!iguana is involved and wants to figure stuff out. Scum!iguana is easily discouraged. It's rather clear to see which one we are dealing with here.
-
Suggested reads are the end of RMM28 for town!iguana and the end of D2 of M79 for scum!iguana.
-
and Iguana lurks the same amount regardless of alignment?
-
and Iguana lurks the same amount regardless of alignment?
No; way more as scum.
-
Suggested reads are the end of RMM28 for town!iguana and the end of D2 of M79 for scum!iguana.
It is ridiculous to compare my first ever game with a fairly recent one when everyone knows my play gets progressively worse.
-
I lurk plenty as town in whatever the last game I played was.
-
Suggested reads are the end of RMM28 for town!iguana and the end of D2 of M79 for scum!iguana.
It is ridiculous to compare my first ever game with a fairly recent one when everyone knows my play gets progressively worse.
Can you give an example of a town game that has you performing in a similar way to the way you're performing here?
-
The problem is that I distrust Faust, so either he's bussing iguana or diverting attention from Space, but I can't figure out which.
-
The problem is that I distrust Faust, so either he's bussing iguana or diverting attention from Space, but I can't figure out which.
Faust has only bussed ashersky and potentially Galzria this game.
-
The problem is that I distrust Faust, so either he's bussing iguana or diverting attention from Space, but I can't figure out which.
Faust has only bussed ashersky and potentially Galzria this game.
So?
-
The problem is that I distrust Faust, so either he's bussing iguana or diverting attention from Space, but I can't figure out which.
Faust has only bussed ashersky and potentially Galzria this game.
So?
I'm saying that including Space/Iguana :P
-
Suggested reads are the end of RMM28 for town!iguana and the end of D2 of M79 for scum!iguana.
It is ridiculous to compare my first ever game with a fairly recent one when everyone knows my play gets progressively worse.
Can you give an example of a town game that has you performing in a similar way to the way you're performing here?
Yeah, whatever the last one I played was. 12 players, 3 mafia and Roadrunner was SK so we just autolose.
-
vote: Space because gut. going to reread something in the next something hours
-
The problem is that I distrust Faust, so either he's bussing iguana or diverting attention from Space, but I can't figure out which.
You distrust me, therefore I must be scum?
If you're so sure that I am scum, you should vote for me and not for Space/iguana.
-
The problem is that I distrust Faust, so either he's bussing iguana or diverting attention from Space, but I can't figure out which.
You distrust me, therefore I must be scum?
If you're so sure that I am scum, you should vote for me and not for Space/iguana.
No, I distrust you because I think you're scum
-
The problem is that I distrust Faust, so either he's bussing iguana or diverting attention from Space, but I can't figure out which.
You distrust me, therefore I must be scum?
If you're so sure that I am scum, you should vote for me and not for Space/iguana.
No, I distrust you because I think you're scum
And why is that?
-
The problem is that I distrust Faust, so either he's bussing iguana or diverting attention from Space, but I can't figure out which.
You distrust me, therefore I must be scum?
If you're so sure that I am scum, you should vote for me and not for Space/iguana.
No, I distrust you because I think you're scum
And why is that?
Why would ashersky do a 1 for 1 trade?
-
I think I can believe in a world with scum team of Space/Iguana/faust. But I really want to decide Space/iguana situation first and then lynch faust
-
I think I can believe in a world with scum team of Space/Iguana/faust. But I really want to decide Space/iguana situation first and then lynch faust
Well first tell me if Faust is bussing you or not and then we can figure out if he's trying to bus Iguana or deflect.
-
Did we ever get a full claim of who Jake tracked? I know he tracked Ashersky..
-
I think I can believe in a world with scum team of Space/Iguana/faust. But I really want to decide Space/iguana situation first and then lynch faust
Well first tell me if Faust is bussing you or not and then we can figure out if he's trying to bus Iguana or deflect.
He's not bussing me because I am not scum. But he may try to set a mislynch up on me
-
I think I can believe in a world with scum team of Space/Iguana/faust. But I really want to decide Space/iguana situation first and then lynch faust
Well first tell me if Faust is bussing you or not and then we can figure out if he's trying to bus Iguana or deflect.
He's not bussing me because I am not scum. But he may try to set a mislynch up on me
I'm not convinced Faust has seriously attempted a bus at all this game. At the very least he's brazenly made cases against multiple town members and openly vigged other ones..
Hard to say whether he'd throw in at least one real bus (no, Ashersky really really really doesn't count) into his pure town-hunting.
-
We have a 50-50 on Space/Iguana, which we can kind of take whenever. It's not like resolving that 50-50 right now is somehow crucial. Do we think Faust's flip is going to illuminate who to lynch among those two?
It's probably the best action to still resolve the 50-50 but I've been thinking it's a must-do when it really isn't.
-
We have a 50-50 on Space/Iguana, which we can kind of take whenever. It's not like resolving that 50-50 right now is somehow crucial. Do we think Faust's flip is going to illuminate who to lynch among those two?
Well if that's going to happen, just promise me to lynch iguana afterwards.
It shouldn't happen really. No evidence is pointing towards me being scum, and if you really considered the ash/me interaction, you would realize that we're in no way scum together.
-
We have a 50-50 on Space/Iguana, which we can kind of take whenever. It's not like resolving that 50-50 right now is somehow crucial. Do we think Faust's flip is going to illuminate who to lynch among those two?
Well if that's going to happen, just promise me to lynch iguana afterwards.
It shouldn't happen really. No evidence is pointing towards me being scum, and if you really considered the ash/me interaction, you would realize that we're in no way scum together.
Baynesian stats aren't evidence? Every town you vig/hard commit a case against makes it less likely you're a town member.
-
We have a 50-50 on Space/Iguana, which we can kind of take whenever. It's not like resolving that 50-50 right now is somehow crucial. Do we think Faust's flip is going to illuminate who to lynch among those two?
It's probably the best action to still resolve the 50-50 but I've been thinking it's a must-do when it really isn't.
It may be crucial if one of them is strongman, because then Galzria will be useful
-
actually thinking about roles I might have to retract all suspicion against Faust...
-
what stage in the role claiming was Ashersky?
-
This is the order:
JaketheBaseballGod22
sudgy
pingpongsam
SpaceAnemone
Jimmmmm
Dylan32
2.71828......
ashersky
RoadRunner7671
iguanaiguana
LaLight
O
Awaclus
If this list contains people who already claimed and I missed it, I would like them to claim again.
-
Slot 1: faust, 2-shot vig.
Slot 2: PPS, restless Sheeper.
*Slot 3: No Claim; assume RB if anything.
Slot 4: Ashersy, Role Cop. (Could also be inventor (or even watcher)).
*Slot 5: No Claim; assume JOAT if anything.
Slot 6: Jimmmmm, Masonic Lover.
*Slot 7: No Claim (Tracker went to slot 12 according to Jake. Other options here are Godfather-er & 1-shot BP).
*Slot 8: No Claim (JK went to 11 according to Galz. Strongman could have been taken from here).
Slot 9: mcmc, Hammer Hero.
Slot 10: TWM, Hider.
Slot 11: Galz, JK.
Slot 12: Jake, Tracker (he says other option was 1-shot commuter).
Slot 13: Apparently went to e, who got 1-shot Bus Driver that had been at slot 6.
credit to Space with bolding by me.
How many of these do we think actually had no attempts at them?
-
we can be moderately confident that Ashersky claimed a slot that was claimed by scum. But he was in hot water so its not completely out of the question that he would fakeclaim a slot.
-
eh he wasn't that hot back then.. scum almost certainly have slot 4.
-
We have a 50-50 on Space/Iguana, which we can kind of take whenever. It's not like resolving that 50-50 right now is somehow crucial. Do we think Faust's flip is going to illuminate who to lynch among those two?
Well if that's going to happen, just promise me to lynch iguana afterwards.
It shouldn't happen really. No evidence is pointing towards me being scum, and if you really considered the ash/me interaction, you would realize that we're in no way scum together.
Baynesian stats aren't evidence? Every town you vig/hard commit a case against makes it less likely you're a town member.
Context is relevant. If I remember correctly, you hav enot caught any more scum than I have so far too. It's easy to just point at my kills and say "that's scummy", but the PPS kill was always pro-town and not something scum wants to happen, so you have exactly one piece of evidence, namely my Cuzz kill; 7 other poeple were part of the Cuzz wagon that you for some reason do not suspect.
-
we can be moderately confident that Ashersky claimed a slot that was claimed by scum. But he was in hot water so its not completely out of the question that he would fakeclaim a slot.
What? ash claimed after everyone else. He could have cherrypicked anything.
-
we can be moderately confident that Ashersky claimed a slot that was claimed by scum. But he was in hot water so its not completely out of the question that he would fakeclaim a slot.
What? ash claimed after everyone else. He could have cherrypicked anything.
oh right, that was silly of me. he claimed slot when he claimed role which was super late.
-
We have a 50-50 on Space/Iguana, which we can kind of take whenever. It's not like resolving that 50-50 right now is somehow crucial. Do we think Faust's flip is going to illuminate who to lynch among those two?
Well if that's going to happen, just promise me to lynch iguana afterwards.
It shouldn't happen really. No evidence is pointing towards me being scum, and if you really considered the ash/me interaction, you would realize that we're in no way scum together.
Baynesian stats aren't evidence? Every town you vig/hard commit a case against makes it less likely you're a town member.
Context is relevant. If I remember correctly, you hav enot caught any more scum than I have so far too. It's easy to just point at my kills and say "that's scummy", but the PPS kill was always pro-town and not something scum wants to happen, so you have exactly one piece of evidence, namely my Cuzz kill; 7 other poeple were part of the Cuzz wagon that you for some reason do not suspect.
Sorry what? I pushed extremely hard for the Ashersky wagon on like D2.
I also disagree about the degree that PPS's role was harmful later on. It certainly could be played around.
-
Cuzz wagon: faust, sudgy, pingpongsam, dylan, Andrew, space, iguana, Jake
I'm scumreading 2
3 are dead (townies)
2 are massive lurkers
Iguana i'm not scumreading mostly because i have this false dichotomy between Space/Iguana when both could absolutely be scum.
So all in all I'd say Sudgy and Dylan are slightly scummier for wagoning cuzz but have mostly lurked their way under my sights.
-
Iguana i'm not scumreading mostly because i have this false dichotomy between Space/Iguana when both could absolutely be scum.
So you're not scumreading iguana because he could be scum? ???
-
Iguana i'm not scumreading mostly because i have this false dichotomy between Space/Iguana when both could absolutely be scum.
So you're not scumreading iguana because he could be scum? ???
Oh, nevermind, I read it wrong. It's not completely clear to me why you scumread Space.
-
The problem is that I distrust Faust, so either he's bussing iguana or diverting attention from Space, but I can't figure out which.
You distrust me, therefore I must be scum?
If you're so sure that I am scum, you should vote for me and not for Space/iguana.
No, I distrust you because I think you're scum
And why is that?
Why would ashersky do a 1 for 1 trade?
He hatched the plan when he thought he would lose anyway due to the mcmc/TWM situation and just wanted to have some fun.
-
Iguana i'm not scumreading mostly because i have this false dichotomy between Space/Iguana when both could absolutely be scum.
So you're not scumreading iguana because he could be scum? ???
I'm acknowledging a mental trap i played myself into, yes.
Implicitly I was saying I need to revise my assessment of Iguana.
Also I've been rereading Space and D3 and D4 Space is pretty much the best analysis / most coherent play out of anyone here, putting loads of effort in.
Unfortunately for Space I don't townread players for having excellent analysis.. but still makes me slightly reconsider since Space would be an excellent person to have around if she is town.
-
The problem is that I distrust Faust, so either he's bussing iguana or diverting attention from Space, but I can't figure out which.
You distrust me, therefore I must be scum?
If you're so sure that I am scum, you should vote for me and not for Space/iguana.
No, I distrust you because I think you're scum
And why is that?
Why would ashersky do a 1 for 1 trade?
He hatched the plan when he thought he would lose anyway due to the mcmc/TWM situation and just wanted to have some fun.
bussing is SO MUCH FUN though. Trust me I try to do it every scumgame.
-
also I was hoping looking at unclaimed roles/town bids would make me think that 3 unclaimed roles were probably scum (and suggesting town!faust) but unfortunately we as town botched our bidding with overlaps so much that I think nothing meaningful can be gleened.
we might have had a shot if we did my d1 order discussion, though
-
The problem is that I distrust Faust, so either he's bussing iguana or diverting attention from Space, but I can't figure out which.
You distrust me, therefore I must be scum?
If you're so sure that I am scum, you should vote for me and not for Space/iguana.
No, I distrust you because I think you're scum
And why is that?
Why would ashersky do a 1 for 1 trade?
He hatched the plan when he thought he would lose anyway due to the mcmc/TWM situation and just wanted to have some fun.
bussing is SO MUCH FUN though. Trust me I try to do it every scumgame.
I pushed extremely hard for the Ashersky wagon on like D2.
Hmm...
-
We should break down the whole "faust is scum" theory as it doesn't make sense on any level.
- it has been pretty clear from D1 that I would eventually claim vig. Scum doesn't even want this because claiming it requires them to shoot "reasonable" targets, but what they actually want is to take out the towniest/strongest players. We know from the massclaim that scum very likely hid some of their PRs. Why wouldn't they do they same with their strongest one?
- I shot the first chance I got. This is clear. This is again not something scum wants. Later it becomes much clearer which players need taking out. Scum wouldn't shoot the vig in N1/N2.
- with a team this size, I would always absolutely try to sacrifice someone early for towncred. I have previously gone on record stating that I like this sort of play, and I have won a game where I bussed a partner to death D1. I would never choose to only go after town.
- I would never agree to a play like the one ash did here as scum. ash likes to do weird claims just for the heck of it, but of course this would eventually break down. Had I been ash's partner, I would at the very least have pointed out the gaping holes and logical errors in his fakeclaim. For evidence on this, you can check the post-game discussion of that game where ash and gkrieg fakeclaimed Masons.
- ash specifically tried to frame Galz/me as Werewolves prior to e's flip. I think he truly believed that to some extent, and that is why he claimed. Of course this cannot be if I'm actually his partner.
- PPS was the single worst town death possible for scum. Literally any other townie dying would have been better for them. As scum, wouldn't I have tried my best to be able to shoot someone else? I had other scumreads that I could reasonably have shot.
- On N2, Galz blocked ash, leading to one less death than expected. If the scum kill has been blocked at that stage, I could simply have claimed that I did not shoot, explaining away the missing kill and preventing ashersky going down.
-
The problem is that I distrust Faust, so either he's bussing iguana or diverting attention from Space, but I can't figure out which.
You distrust me, therefore I must be scum?
If you're so sure that I am scum, you should vote for me and not for Space/iguana.
No, I distrust you because I think you're scum
And why is that?
Why would ashersky do a 1 for 1 trade?
He hatched the plan when he thought he would lose anyway due to the mcmc/TWM situation and just wanted to have some fun.
bussing is SO MUCH FUN though. Trust me I try to do it every scumgame.
I pushed extremely hard for the Ashersky wagon on like D2.
Hmm...
Exactly. As town, my extremely amazing scumhunting means I lynch scum. Then when I'm scum, my bussing also means I lynch scum. Thus preserving a metagame in which I'm unreadable.
I'm glad you've caught up.
-
We should break down the whole "faust is scum" theory as it doesn't make sense on any level.
- it has been pretty clear from D1 that I would eventually claim vig. Scum doesn't even want this because claiming it requires them to shoot "reasonable" targets, but what they actually want is to take out the towniest/strongest players. We know from the massclaim that scum very likely hid some of their
PRs. Why wouldn't they do they same with their strongest one?
Sure.
- I shot the first chance I got. This is clear. This is again not something scum wants. Later it becomes much clearer which players need taking out. Scum wouldn't shoot the vig in N1/N2.
Yes. Yes. No, scum is fine with it. Yes, and kills become harder to execute. No.
- with a team this size, I would always absolutely try to sacrifice someone early for towncred. I have previously gone on record stating that I like this sort of play, and I have won a game where I bussed a partner to death D1. I would never choose to only go after town.
What game have you played with a team of this size?
- I would never agree to a play like the one ash did here as scum. ash likes to do weird claims just for the heck of it, but of course this would eventually break down. Had I been ash's partner, I would at the very least have pointed out the gaping holes and logical errors in his fakeclaim. For evidence on this, you can check the post-game discussion of that game where ash and gkrieg fakeclaimed Masons.
Why didn't you point out the gaping holes and logical errors in his fakeclaim as town? Why does it matter whether or not you agreed to it? It's already quite apparent that Ash gets a little bit prickly and does what he wants.
- ash specifically tried to frame Galz/me as Werewolves prior to e's flip. I think he truly believed that to some extent, and that is why he claimed. Of course this cannot be if I'm actually his partner.
Yes. No. No. No. Why are you pretending like we should be putting credence into pissed-off-scum Ash's busses/nonbusses?
- PPS was the single worst town death possible for scum. Literally any other townie dying would have been better for them. As scum, wouldn't I have tried my best to be able to shoot someone else? I had other scumreads that I could reasonably have shot.
Nope. PPS is a fine death for scum when he hasn't sheeped any townie. The threat is a dual threat and you can't keep pretending that it isn't. You're the only person claiming town should autolynch.
- On N2, Galz blocked ash, leading to one less death than expected. If the scum kill has been blocked at that stage, I could simply have claimed that I did not shoot, explaining away the missing kill and preventing ashersky going down
.
[/quote]
Tracker, Watcher, motion detector? Galz could be lying? Ash was scummy looking anyways?
-
It is clear from your response that you are just fitting your explanations to the reads you already have, not the other way around. I thinkfurther arguments with you are pointless.
-
That reminds me.
Vote: O
-
It is clear from your response that you are just fitting your explanations to the reads you already have, not the other way around. I thinkfurther arguments with you are pointless.
actually i think my responses there were pretty legitimate questions, not sure how pointing out tracker/watcher/motion detector capabilities isn't a valid argument.
-
all in all it just seems like you went "O is not buying my own descriptions of my play from previous Mafia games and is doing the absurd thing of scumreading someone who has consistently harmed the town with their earlier play this game".
Which makes me fully happy to Vote: Faust. Maybe space is scum, maybe you are. But i'd rather have hard-hitting role analysis over "here's my bible of text for theoretically scummyish sounding activities and if you don't agree with them you're incorrigible" any day.
-
vote: Space because gut. going to reread something in the next something hours
I find your guy disappointing! Try brain instead? :-P
-
we might have had a shot if we did my d1 order discussion, though
You did a lot of talking in D1, and I've just tried to have a re-read, but I don't really see exactly what it was that you were proposing. You were quite vague, and kept interspersing it with insistences that you weren't proposing a mass-claim. To me, that feels more like probing for things people will let slip... your words were all things like "nobody mentions this but..." or "discussion might be protown" or "we should have had more of a conversation". That was all in the pretty early days of D1; after that you got sucked into scumreading Awaclus and don't seem to have been mentioning the discussion idea. Compare and contrast with my strategy for getting the claiming exercise started D3, where I asked targeted questions to people, with definite suggestions of how the exercise should go and what we should hope to get out of it.
Hey, I did also just rediscover your wifomy "softclaims" at #1539 and #1550. I like them even less now that I know Awaclus is an IC. I currently feel much more willing to vote O than any player other than iguana, so if it turns out that sufficiently many people decide against the me-vs-iguana decision for today, that's where my vote will go. Not moving my vote from iguana for the time being, though!
-
Why do you think you are the only person to take those posts seriously, Space? Everyone else accepted them fully as a joke. Faust is presumably the 2-shot Vig and never took it as a scummy softclaim, when he'd be paying the most attention to it.
You should also probably reread Awaclus day 1. I just find it odd that someone who pays attention to language so carefully wouldn't understand why I don't like Awaclus calling people retards.
-
It's is pretty ludicrous to not lynch among Space/iguana. Even if we end up mislynching, we will still have 1 confirmed scum going into tonight. Then we can start looking for partners on D6, Galrzia has a better chance to block the kill. If we lynch elsewhere and end up mislynching, we get nothing.
-
It's is pretty ludicrous to not lynch among Space/iguana.
I'm going to start re-reading them both.
-
Why do you think you are the only person to take those posts seriously, Space?
I can't speak for everyone else, but for me it's because I have a much stronger sense of logic than of humour, and I find hiding behind "oh, I was only joking" claims to be something that benefits scum and hurts town.
Everyone else accepted them fully as a joke. Faust is presumably the 2-shot Vig and never took it as a scummy softclaim, when he'd be paying the most attention to it.
That isn't the fake-claim I was referring to in either of the posts whose numbers I gave. I'm referring to you giving strong townreads in italics to both Cuzz and RR. It's super-unhelpful to town to have a player whose reads are all maybe-jokes.
You should also probably reread Awaclus day 1. I just find it odd that someone who pays attention to language so carefully wouldn't understand why I don't like Awaclus calling people retards.
What are you even asking for here? That I re-read one of our two ICs so I can go and get worked up for non-alignment-indicative behaviour? Or are you suggesting I should scumread him for it?
1) Awaclus is an IC.
2) Awaclus is a player I've played with a number of times before. While it can be annoying, I do have something of a feel for his playstyle, and I respect where he's trying to go with it, even though I don't agree that it's an optimal strategy with many opponents. Getting frustrated with Awaclus for being Awaclus is not a fruitful exercise.
3) Calling people names like that is distasteful, but doesn't make him scummy. Also, afaik he's a non-native speaker; I'd tend to give non-native speakers a little more leeway for not understanding the offensiveness of a term, since appropriate/inappropriate use is something of a cultural/social thing.
-
Why do you think you are the only person to take those posts seriously, Space?
I can't speak for everyone else, but for me it's because I have a much stronger sense of logic than of humour, and I find hiding behind "oh, I was only joking" claims to be something that benefits scum and hurts town.
Everyone else accepted them fully as a joke. Faust is presumably the 2-shot Vig and never took it as a scummy softclaim, when he'd be paying the most attention to it.
That isn't the fake-claim I was referring to in either of the posts whose numbers I gave. I'm referring to you giving strong townreads in italics to both Cuzz and RR. It's super-unhelpful to town to have a player whose reads are all maybe-jokes.
You should also probably reread Awaclus day 1. I just find it odd that someone who pays attention to language so carefully wouldn't understand why I don't like Awaclus calling people retards.
What are you even asking for here? That I re-read one of our two ICs so I can go and get worked up for non-alignment-indicative behaviour? Or are you suggesting I should scumread him for it?
1) Awaclus is an IC.
2) Awaclus is a player I've played with a number of times before. While it can be annoying, I do have something of a feel for his playstyle, and I respect where he's trying to go with it, even though I don't agree that it's an optimal strategy with many opponents. Getting frustrated with Awaclus for being Awaclus is not a fruitful exercise.
3) Calling people names like that is distasteful, but doesn't make him scummy. Also, afaik he's a non-native speaker; I'd tend to give non-native speakers a little more leeway for not understanding the offensiveness of a term, since appropriate/inappropriate use is something of a cultural/social thing.
What is the point of this post? Why are you writing thesis defense of Awaclus? I have no desire to have this discussion with you. All my point was is that my initial reaction to Awaclus is a completely normal, not particularly scummy reaction that's probably actually expected.
Maybe this would all be remotely relevant if I was trying to drum up suspicion on Awaclus right now. I'm not. I'm defending my position day 1/early day 2.
You have literally just gone back and said "rereading early I find O annoying". It's ok, I can handle random person vendettas. But it's still a terrible way to scumhunt day 5. "O made jokes I personally did not like and found Awaclus annoying day 1, this makes him the second most scummy person."
Vote: Space
N.B.: Logic is a facile and awful way to attempt to approach human behavior, and it's rather pretentious to assume it's because some logical deficit that I play the way i do. I have my pure math degree, I just choose not to attempt to pretend it gives me some advantage in social pysch games.
-
O, is there a particular reason why you have not stated any kind of read at all on iguana? Do you think it's unnecessary to reread him?
-
I can handle random person vendettas. But it's still a terrible way to scumhunt day 5.
Now look who's talking.
-
I can handle random person vendettas. But it's still a terrible way to scumhunt day 5.
Now look who's talking.
day 5 tho and i'm seemingly not voting awaclus
-
Maybe this would all be remotely relevant if I was trying to drum up suspicion on Awaclus right now. I'm not. I'm defending my position day 1/early day 2.
The majority of my observation there was nothing to do with Awaclus, it was about other not-town-helpful things you did in D1 that I'd somewhat forgotten about because D1s are hard to get into. Things like making too many jokey fakeclaims that only serve to confuse actual reads offered to town. There was also the fact that you're claiming now that you were pushing a discussion agenda back then, where the actual work you did back in D1 seems a lot more like it was "for show" rather than actively attempting to get a conversation going.
You have literally just gone back and said "rereading early I find O annoying".
No, I went back and said I found you anti-town. Please don't imply I'm being personal about it as an attack on you, because that is absolutely not where I'm going with my observations.
N.B.: Logic is a facile and awful way to attempt to approach human behavior
This may be true, but I have to play to my strengths :-) I have a bunch of traits people might associate with a high-functioning female autist at the mild end of the spectrum, if that helps give you more of a picture of where I'm coming from.
I didn't mean to offend you personally, beyond the inevitable offense you might take from being scumread, correctly or otherwise.
-
I can handle random person vendettas. But it's still a terrible way to scumhunt day 5.
Now look who's talking.
day 5 tho and i'm seemingly not voting awaclus
No; you're voting for me.
-
Oh, I think you are no longer. Good for you then.
-
Space, on d1 there were a number of people "lurkimg" (I use this term loosely - I understand it was a huge game and overwhelming for many players).
Why did you try multiple times to get Calam to engage more? You said then "because he struggles as much with d1 as I do" - which is fine... many people do. Especially in a game this size. But you only tried to get him to engage - nobody else. Why?
-
Space, on d1 there were a number of people "lurkimg" (I use this term loosely - I understand it was a huge game and overwhelming for many players).
Why did you try multiple times to get Calam to engage more? You said then "because he struggles as much with d1 as I do" - which is fine... many people do. Especially in a game this size. But you only tried to get him to engage - nobody else. Why?
Because I think he's a lot like me (except for being male and rather young, but other than that...), and I wish people would do that for me. This isn't the only game where I've specifically tried to bring him into D1 when he wasn't saying anything. LMK if you want me to go looking for other instances later... it's too big a job to do right now because I'm really bad at remembering what happened where/when.
-
Space, was m89 the last normal game in which you were Mafia?
-
Iguana, what was your most recent game as Mafia?
-
((I'm not planning on rereading for each of you in depth, just want to skim for a better feel of your styles))
-
Also, for Iguana:
You pushed against me extensively on d1 & d2 for what I can primarily tell is because you don't care for my playstyle of being loud, active, and present within the ongoing of the game.
What did you actually see of me that was alignment indicative, and how do you feel now?
-
Space, was m89 the last normal game in which you were Mafia?
Yes, it's my only normal game as mafia! The other two were NM8 (which I aced by looking super-newbie-innocent and got MVP for) and NM10 (which LL and I totally tanked for various reasons involving me being stretched too thin, in three games at once (not a good plan!) and me suggesting a crappy plan in N0 when I expected we could talk it through and then the game suddenly starting early before we'd had any chance to talk at all). So all three games were different enough that I don't think I particularly have a scum meta yet. Hopefully you'll be able to pull out something useful, though!
-
For what it is worth, I'm thinking Space has been pretty much the same as their usual town self, but then I haven't seen scum!space, so I guess I should go back and skim those games to get a comparison. That being said, I would be pretty confident lynching iguana today.
-
Iguana, what was your most recent game as Mafia?
Sherlock mafia (M79) and marvel heroes mafia (M72) are my only scum games.
In both games people put a little pressure on me and I claimed scum because I hate being scum.
This game I have just been a bit on the busier side. I would also prefer to let people make their own opinions about me and many have not even reread so there is not much to say right now.
FWIW, I totally understand why people Dont see why Space is scum. I remember reading one of their scum games and they play it really well. They are doing the same thing here - committing hard to townie looking play while pushing for their own faction's agenda.
As for me, I think it is relatively easy to just pick the lurker lynch. Probably I could and should have done better.
-
Also, for Iguana:
You pushed against me extensively on d1 & d2 for what I can primarily tell is because you don't care for my playstyle of being loud, active, and present within the ongoing of the game.
What did you actually see of me that was alignment indicative, and how do you feel now?
Let's see.
On the scummy side, You pushed a town wagon D1, outed a PR D2, had a very similar reaction as Ash to the Hammer Hero plan. Also a lot of your claimed jailing targets seem pretty bad.
On the towny side, you may have been responsible for a missing NK when you jailed Ash. That's about it.
To me, there's a good chance you are scum. But D3 we did e/Roadrunner, D4 we did Ash, and now I know Space is scum.
I guess if you help me survive the day then I might get around to making a case on you tomorrow!
-
Also, for Iguana:
You pushed against me extensively on d1 & d2 for what I can primarily tell is because you don't care for my playstyle of being loud, active, and present within the ongoing of the game.
What did you actually see of me that was alignment indicative, and how do you feel now?
Let's see.
On the scummy side, You pushed a town wagon D1, outed a PR D2, had a very similar reaction as Ash to the Hammer Hero plan. Also a lot of your claimed jailing targets seem pretty bad.
On the towny side, you may have been responsible for a missing NK when you jailed Ash. That's about it.
To me, there's a good chance you are scum. But D3 we did e/Roadrunner, D4 we did Ash, and now I know Space is scum.
I guess if you help me survive the day then I might get around to making a case on you tomorrow!
This (bolded) is how you make friends in game haha
-
Interesting note:
D2 following the mcmc/TWM claims, Ash suggested we just "lynch from the signup sheet" and auto-win for town (btw, I still agree that town was a near-lock had e not stolen the hammer - but that's a discussion for postgame) - at the time the SK was still alive, and Faust had both shots available - although Ash didn't know where the SK (or WW's) were.
If we assume that what he was suggesting gave any hope to mafia, they (and the SK if somehow they decided to work together) needed to control 50% of the town. The player list at that time read as follows (added known alignments):
1.
2. Galzria - Me! (Hint: Town)
3.
4. The_Wine_Merchant - Town
5.
6. Eevee - Town
7. faust
8. LaLight
9. Awaclus - Town
10. SpaceAnemone
11. 2.71828..... - Not Mafia
12.pingpongsam - Town
13. Dylan32
14. RoadRunner
15.iguanaiguana
16. Jimmmmm - Town
17. O
18. AndrewisFTTW - Town
19. Cuzz - Town
20. ashersky - Mafia
21. JaketheBaseballGod22 - Town
22. mcmcsalot - Town
23. sudgy
TWM and mcmc were off limits. So his proposed lynch order went: Me, Eevee, Faust, LaLight, Awaclus, Space.
This definitely gives me a stronger town read on Faust and LaLight, and a slightly stronger town read on Space (although they're a ways down the list).
It also makes me feel especially suspicious of Sudgy (who, until I found and did this had honestly forgotten was still alive and playing), and a little more suspicious of O and Iguana.
-
Lol
-
That whole giant thing and literally all you said was 'My townreads are based on player signup order.'
-
The tragedy being that I signed up as soon as I noticed signup were open...
-
Lol
? You disagree? I mean, it doesn't say a whole heck of a lot about you and Space (you're both pretty close to middle off the pack), but I think the rest is certainly notable. I do not believe that Ash would at any point play against his win condition or throw in the towel.
D2 he suggested lynching me and Faust first. (Followed by Eevee and LaLight)
D3 he pushed me and Faust as WW partners (Eevee was now dead).
D4 he "outted" us as his actual partners in his self-hammer post (along with LaLight). - conveniently the top 3 alive on the signup sheet - the first in order he pushed to lynch D2.
That whole giant thing and literally all you said was 'My townreads are based on player signup order.'
No, that whole post said "My reads are based off what a dead scum was pushing as lynch order", which is actually, generally speaking, a pretty good tell usually.
-
The tragedy being that I signed up as soon as I noticed signup were open...
When you signed up has no alignment indication. It's as likely the top 5 are Mafia as it is the bottom 5 as it is the middle 5 as it is everybody is spread out.
What IS alignment indicative is a confirmed scum pushing lynches in a particular order. Not alignment conclusive mind you, but indicative yes.
-
Except instead of his real fake reads, which he purposefully obfuscated, you are using his trollpost about lynching on signup order.
-
Except instead of his real fake reads, which he purposefully obfuscated, you are using his trollpost about lynching on signup order.
I believe everything he's said is worth looking at. As he never really gave "his real fake reads, which he purposefully obfuscated" outside of the above, and as it wasn't a one -off troll post but rather something he pushed across multiple days (even d1 he suggested lynching the "first 10 people to get this to a manageable size") I think it's actually valuable analysis of the closest we have to "real fake reads" by Ash.
-
Except that the whole thing boils down to 'Loll Don't lynch me I signed up second' and maybe also gives you a crappy pseudo reason to lynch me today.
Try not to grasp at straws so obviously.
-
Also, for Iguana:
You pushed against me extensively on d1 & d2 for what I can primarily tell is because you don't care for my playstyle of being loud, active, and present within the ongoing of the game.
What did you actually see of me that was alignment indicative, and how do you feel now?
Let's see.
On the scummy side, You pushed a town wagon D1, outed a PR D2, had a very similar reaction as Ash to the Hammer Hero plan. Also a lot of your claimed jailing targets seem pretty bad.
On the towny side, you may have been responsible for a missing NK when you jailed Ash. That's about it.
To me, there's a good chance you are scum. But D3 we did e/Roadrunner, D4 we did Ash, and now I know Space is scum.
I guess if you help me survive the day then I might get around to making a case on you tomorrow!
Missed this:
On the scummy side, You pushed a town wagon D1, outed a PR D2, had a very similar reaction as Ash to the Hammer Hero plan. Also a lot of your claimed jailing targets seem pretty bad.
Yeah, I mean, me and 22 other people pushed cases on town wagons d1. J Reggie wagon... TWM wagon... mcmc wagon... gosh darn, how scummy of us all! If only we could've all just pushed scum wagons instead!
I outted a PR d3. Good thing I didn't just tell my Mafia buddies at night in our QT otherwise you never would've caught me!
I agreed with Ash about town winning this game with the HH/Hider claim. Still do. I didn't honestly think mcmc would lose at whack-a-mole. If he hadn't the SK would still be dead, as would Ashersky (most likely), and mcmc (and probably TWM?) would still be alive. Add in the two IC's we have and that's a pretty damn good position for us.
What can I say? My jail targets were just horrible. I only jailed confirmed Mafia two out of three nights coming into last night.
-
Sorry, I've still had stuff to do, my mom's cousin and his family came yesterday and now one of them broke an arm, and everything's been crazy. I'll try to do something tonight or tomorrow.
I'm also LA Friday-Saturday.
-
So, these are the people we have:
Awaclus - IC. Let us for completion note the possible ways in which Awaclus can still be scum: 1) He is 1-shot Commuter/Lightning Rod. Only works if Galzria is lying and Awaclus took slot 11 in fact, getting that role. 2) e Bus Drove Awaclus/X N1. Highly unlikely especially considering how Bus Driving rules were updated after N1. Okay, this out of the way, he's voting for O. I mean come on, that's bullshit. O may well be scum, but we need to figure out iguana/Space now. Also last post is ~40 hours ago.
Dylan32 - leaning towards iguana lynch, no vote yet.
RoadRunner7671 - No position on Space v iguana, last post 48 hours ago.
Galzria - here & trying to figure stuff out. VLA later.
Jimmmmm - IC. Promised reread, that was 27 hours ago, no post since.
O - around & pushing iguana
faust - looking to lynch iguana
LaLight - voting Space because of gut. Promised reread, nothing happened. Last post 46 hours ago.
Space & iguana - positions clear here.
Request prods on Awaclus, RR, Jimmmmm, LaLight
-
Forogt sudgy - promised activity, upcoming VLA.
-
I mean come on guys. There is really no reason to stall this out. The deadline is directly after the weekend, so if you could decie on your take on Space/iguana today or tomorrow, that would be much appreciated.
-
I'm not super well-equipped to figure out space vs iguana today or tomorrow.
-
Yeah, reread of this game is not like supereasy task
-
I think that my stance on Space is final. I mean they are supertownie with either alignment and i think them as very dangerous if scum. but if my vote will be lacking for iguana lynch, I will join the wagon.
Both of them can be scum. Neither of them may be scum by the way.
-
I'm not super well-equipped to figure out space vs iguana today or tomorrow.
Neither am I. At this point I'd rather vote for iguana, but that's pretty much only based off of other people's arguments. There's also the fact that he usually convinces me he's town when he's actually town, and that hasn't happened yet.
-
Yeah, reread of this game is not like supereasy task
Space and iguana do not have more posts than what you would expect in a normal-sized game, so I fail to see the problem.
-
I think that my stance on Space is final. I mean they are supertownie with either alignment and i think them as very dangerous if scum. but if my vote will be lacking for iguana lynch, I will join the wagon.
Both of them can be scum. Neither of them may be scum by the way.
So your stance is "whatever, I don't care". Cool. Maybe we should just lynch you.
-
Yeah, reread of this game is not like supereasy task
Space and iguana do not have more posts than what you would expect in a normal-sized game, so I fail to see the problem.
The problem is that I'm super busy.
-
Yeah, reread of this game is not like supereasy task
Space and iguana do not have more posts than what you would expect in a normal-sized game, so I fail to see the problem.
The problem is that I'm super busy.
Yeah I know, that was rather directed at LaLight. But it's possible that he's super busy too.
-
Fun fact: there have been only 244 meaningful votes/unvotes in this whole game so far.
I've generated a 2.2K text file giving the exact voting state at every point in the game. For the last bunch of games I've just kept a running vote tally manually, but the early portions of this game were too busy, and now it's just too long, so I finally got around to automating the vote-count process. It's not perfect: it misses a colon-less vote from RR in D1 that Robz allowed, and I haven't compared all the official vote counts to check it's correct at all the other points, but I'm confident it gives a good idea of how the wagons formed and moved.
I assume that even if I use a code cut, you're not going to want me to dump the whole thing into the thread, but if anyone has any sections or points in the game where they want to know the exact state, I can provide now :-)
I realised when doing it that we actually have loads of confirmed town/scum identities, and that I'm the townie with the most info at their disposal right now, since I know iguana is scum with ~95% certainty (modulo TWM doing what he said he would), while the rest of you have to account for the me/him problem. Anyway, it makes early-game wagons interesting to go back and look at, since so many people are now coloured in :-) Robz ruled at #1962 that coloured text is reserved for the mod, so I'm afraid I can only post the monochrome version of anything you pick out.
-
Vote Count 5.2
iguanaiguana (2): faust, SpaceAnemone
SpaceAnemone (3): iguanaiguana, LaLight, O
O (1): Awaclus
Not Voting (5): Dylan32, RoadRunner7671, Galzria, Jimmmmm, sudgy
With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Day 5 ends Monday, June 19, at 11:00 AM Forum Time.
-
Fun fact: there have been only 244 meaningful votes/unvotes in this whole game so far.
I've generated a 2.2K text file giving the exact voting state at every point in the game. For the last bunch of games I've just kept a running vote tally manually, but the early portions of this game were too busy, and now it's just too long, so I finally got around to automating the vote-count process. It's not perfect: it misses a colon-less vote from RR in D1 that Robz allowed, and I haven't compared all the official vote counts to check it's correct at all the other points, but I'm confident it gives a good idea of how the wagons formed and moved.
I assume that even if I use a code cut, you're not going to want me to dump the whole thing into the thread, but if anyone has any sections or points in the game where they want to know the exact state, I can provide now :-)
I realised when doing it that we actually have loads of confirmed town/scum identities, and that I'm the townie with the most info at their disposal right now, since I know iguana is scum with ~95% certainty (modulo TWM doing what he said he would), while the rest of you have to account for the me/him problem. Anyway, it makes early-game wagons interesting to go back and look at, since so many people are now coloured in :-) Robz ruled at #1962 that coloured text is reserved for the mod, so I'm afraid I can only post the monochrome version of anything you pick out.
That sounds pretty good. I always meant to write some automation like that, but never really got around to it.
Can you maybe post each wagon that received >3 votes at the point when it was the largest? If that's not too much of a hassle.
-
I got prodded. This game has really stalled for me, one of iguana and space are for sure scum so I think we should just lynch there.
-
I got prodded. This game has really stalled for me, one of iguana and space are for sure scum so I think we should just lynch there.
Yes but WHICH ONE?
-
Pick a number between 1 and 2.
-
Pick a number between 1 and 2.
What is wrong with you? If you don't want to play, please send a PM to Robz that you want to out.
-
Pick a number between 1 and 2.
What is wrong with you? If you don't want to play, please send a PM to Robz that you want to out.
I feel like we're going to lynch both in consecutive days. I already expressed interest in iguana, but they both seem meh. I had a mild townread on both, so I'm really trusting TWM but I just don't feel good about this lynch/lynches and I want to get it over with.
-
Protip: It will be over faster if you vote.
-
That's embarrassing, I thought I was. Vote: iguana
-
Sad.
-
Can you maybe post each wagon that received >3 votes at the point when it was the largest? If that's not too much of a hassle.
Will do.. that's not too hard a request to script, though since it'll take a few mins, I'll put it off till I'm not actively busy at work..
I should have known that people around here wouldn't just pick a single timepoint they're interested in, huh? :-P
-
Sad.
Me too
-
Sad.
Me too
I'm a town dude :/
-
#636 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg694018#msg694018) looks a bit bad, because of how she's trying to pull Calamitas out of lurking. I know it's been mentioned before and she has a reason for it, but it does still look bad.
In #1089 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg694515#msg694515), she does the same thing. It feels a bit forced even.
In #1103 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg694531#msg694531), she's thinking about how the mafia would play a lot.
She does it again in #1283 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg694748#msg694748).
...Wow. Not much for ages. Maybe I'm just tired. Anyway, in #3549 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg699534#msg699534), she makes a really good case on ashersky. I would say this is towny but ash was already going down in flames, so I would say this is null.
Okay, so my read on Space has totally changed. Most of what she did doesn't really implicate anything, and the few things I could find seem to point towards scum. Even though I want to believe she's town, my mind is telling me she isn't. I'll reread iguana before making any real decisions. However, I have something else to do now.
-
#636 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg694018#msg694018) looks a bit bad, because of how she's trying to pull Calamitas out of lurking. I know it's been mentioned before and she has a reason for it, but it does still look bad.
In #1089 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg694515#msg694515), she does the same thing. It feels a bit forced even.
In #1103 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg694531#msg694531), she's thinking about how the mafia would play a lot.
She does it again in #1283 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg694748#msg694748).
...Wow. Not much for ages. Maybe I'm just tired. Anyway, in #3549 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg699534#msg699534), she makes a really good case on ashersky. I would say this is towny but ash was already going down in flames, so I would say this is null.
Okay, so my read on Space has totally changed. Most of what she did doesn't really implicate anything, and the few things I could find seem to point towards scum. Even though I want to believe she's town, my mind is telling me she isn't. I'll reread iguana before making any real decisions. However, I have something else to do now.
To be clear up front, I haven't had time to reread either yet, but now I have sudgy (who I have been gut scum-reading most of the game) flipping his read on Space as it looks like iguana is moving towards a lynch. Partner tell if iguana flips scum.
-
Also, I thought iguana was closer to getting lynched than this, otherwise I would have vote: iguana a long time ago.
-
I've gotta say the igauna / Space wagons are neatly fitting with my reads. Of course at least 1 townie is voting for iguana by now.
-
I've gotta say the igauna / Space wagons are neatly fitting with my reads. Of course at least 1 townie is voting for iguana by now.
scumslip?
-
I've gotta say the igauna / Space wagons are neatly fitting with my reads. Of course at least 1 townie is voting for iguana by now.
scumslip?
like, full on legitimate scumslip.
-
I've gotta say the igauna / Space wagons are neatly fitting with my reads. Of course at least 1 townie is voting for iguana by now.
scumslip?
like, full on legitimate scumslip.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigeonhole_principle
-
Ah, uh, of course iguana = Space. One gets confused. Statement is true either way.
-
#636 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg694018#msg694018) looks a bit bad, because of how she's trying to pull Calamitas out of lurking. I know it's been mentioned before and she has a reason for it, but it does still look bad.
In #1089 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg694515#msg694515), she does the same thing. It feels a bit forced even.
In #1103 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg694531#msg694531), she's thinking about how the mafia would play a lot.
She does it again in #1283 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg694748#msg694748).
...Wow. Not much for ages. Maybe I'm just tired. Anyway, in #3549 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg699534#msg699534), she makes a really good case on ashersky. I would say this is towny but ash was already going down in flames, so I would say this is null.
Okay, so my read on Space has totally changed. Most of what she did doesn't really implicate anything, and the few things I could find seem to point towards scum. Even though I want to believe she's town, my mind is telling me she isn't. I'll reread iguana before making any real decisions. However, I have something else to do now.
To be clear up front, I haven't had time to reread either yet, but now I have sudgy (who I have been gut scum-reading most of the game) flipping his read on Space as it looks like iguana is moving towards a lynch. Partner tell if iguana flips scum.
Do you really think that scum would be that stupid?
-
Do you really think that scum would be that stupid?
If this defense worked, it wouldn't be a stupid move.
-
It's not stupid. Scum need the mislynch here if they want to have a realistic shot at winning. It may be executed poorly.
-
I've gotta say the igauna / Space wagons are neatly fitting with my reads. Of course at least 1 townie is voting for iguana by now.
scumslip?
like, full on legitimate scumslip.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigeonhole_principle
I'm well aware of the concept. It doesn't mean you sentence makes any sense from a "faust is town" perspective, and it's an exceedingly useless one from a general scumhunting standpoint.
-
Ah, uh, of course iguana = Space. One gets confused. Statement is true either way.
There we go. Can acknowledge the mistake without pretending people who disagree with you don't know math.
-
Do you really think that scum would be that stupid?
If this defense worked, it wouldn't be a stupid move.
If this attack worked, it would be a stupid move.
How do you like your wine?
-
Ah, uh, of course iguana = Space. One gets confused. Statement is true either way.
There we go. Can acknowledge the mistake without pretending people who disagree with you don't know math.
Sorry I didn't realize right away that we weren't actually talking about Space.
-
Ironically we will actually get more information here if we mislynch.
-
If this attack worked, it would be a stupid move.
Exactly and that's why it's going to be a stupid move. But it could have been not stupid.
-
If this attack worked, it would be a stupid move.
Exactly and that's why it's going to be a stupid move. But it could have been not stupid.
We'll see. I do agree that Sudgy is conditionally scummy, I just doubt the condition will be fulfilled.
-
Iguana reread.
Early on he's saying ash is scummy. Interesting when nothing much had happened yet. For some reason, I just can't believe that scum would connect themselves that much to their partner that early.
In #1501 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg695155#msg695155) he says that he was not paying attention to Calamitas. It could be a lie, but I can't really see that. Scum would not be "not paying attention" to their partner.
#1778 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg695562#msg695562) has a reads list, and ash is in a scummy place. He basically says not to lynch him for basically no reason.
For a while he's had a scumread on Galzria. Iguana, do you still have this scumread? (Reading later, you do, so I guess you don't need to answer this)
In #2136 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg696103#msg696103) he also likes the signup order plan, which I find a bit scummy given that ash suggested it.
In #3569 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg699564#msg699564) he brings ash to L-1. Interesting.
Except instead of his real fake reads, which he purposefully obfuscated, you are using his trollpost about lynching on signup order.
Yet you liked the idea yourself.
Man. This is hard. Iguana looks good at first, but gets scummy later. I think I like Space more, but iguana, could you reply to all of my scummy things I mentioned here?
-
Iguana reread.
Early on he's saying ash is scummy. Interesting when nothing much had happened yet. For some reason, I just can't believe that scum would connect themselves that much to their partner that early.
In #1501 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg695155#msg695155) he says that he was not paying attention to Calamitas. It could be a lie, but I can't really see that. Scum would not be "not paying attention" to their partner.
#1778 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg695562#msg695562) has a reads list, and ash is in a scummy place. He basically says not to lynch him for basically no reason.
For a while he's had a scumread on Galzria. Iguana, do you still have this scumread? (Reading later, you do, so I guess you don't need to answer this)
In #2136 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg696103#msg696103) he also likes the signup order plan, which I find a bit scummy given that ash suggested it.
In #3569 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg699564#msg699564) he brings ash to L-1. Interesting.
Except instead of his real fake reads, which he purposefully obfuscated, you are using his trollpost about lynching on signup order.
Yet you liked the idea yourself.
Man. This is hard. Iguana looks good at first, but gets scummy later. I think I like Space more, but iguana, could you reply to all of my scummy things I mentioned here?
I said the plan was coincidentally good because it would mean lynching Galzria first and at that point I thought that was our best lynch for that day.
It was a sarcastic comment because obviously the signup order plan was really bad but I was conceding that if it led us all to lynch Galzria, that would be a good thing.
I think Galzria arguing that he is townie because of signup order is equally awful to Ash proposing we lynch on signup order.
Basically, everything is terrible.
-
Alright, Vote: Space. L-2, I think.
-
As for 1778, that post says more about me as a human than my alignment.
I really like Ashersky as a mafia player and was pretty disheartened about a year ago when he said he was going into semi retirement. He stated at that time that he went into retirement because he was getting lynched too frequently as town and scum and his playstyle was not appreciated. Obviously I was also pleased when I returned from my own hiatus to see that he has been playing again.
Therefore I try to counteract the bias against him by giving Ash the benefit of the doubt when I can. I challenge you to find something truly scummy that Ash did before 1778. I didn't see anything worth voting him over. So that's why I didn't want to vote him at that time.
Later, when I felt confident he was scum, I voted him.
-
Vote Count 5.3
iguanaiguana (4): faust, SpaceAnemone, RoadRunner7671, Dylan32
SpaceAnemone (4): iguanaiguana, LaLight, O, sudgy
O (1): Awaclus
Not Voting (2): Galzria, Jimmmmm
With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Day 5 ends Monday, June 19, at 11:00 AM Forum Time.
-
Vote: ii
-
Guess I shouldn't have admitted to being a human with Awaclus in the game.
-
I think Galzria arguing that he is townie because of signup order is equally awful to Ash proposing we lynch on signup order.
Except I've never argued that. I don't need to. I know that I am town, and I know I'm not getting lynched.
I've argued that Faust and LaLight are townier in my eyes because of the proposal, combined with Ash's multi-day WIFOM play trying to get the top of the list lynched.
What you're arguing, in fact, is that on d2 and d3 Ash was trying to lynch me, his partner, above all else (Followed by Faust and LaLight) - conveniently the three people that he named as his partners in his self voting hammer.
The story just doesn't make sense. And sure, you thought I was scum then so you supported it - fine. But then Ash flipped scum. And you've taken nothing regarding his play into consideration. It's like you want to pretend his flipping scum doesn't impact anything. When in fact it impacts everything he's said for the entire game.
Sorry. If you're town we can afford the mislynch today. We'll lynch Space tomorrow. If you're scum, then I don't feel bad at all about vote: .
That's L-1...
PPE: L-1 cast.
-
Guess I shouldn't have admitted to being a human
I can understand that it feels shameful to be a human, but it's all right to admit it; we're all humans here.
(Wandering Winder, to be specific.)
-
Intent to hammer by 7:00pm forum time.
I have a little spare time and can wait.
-
Vote: Iguana
Scum has been too weak willed this game. Mcmcsalot's mighty plan never precluded anything, as everyone can see now. He's dead, and scum has gotten the hammer three days in a row.
-
Roadrunner, you're my bro. You can always read me correctly, but some day I'm gunna take advantage of that. I hope my partners kill you tonight so that we can talk in the speccy.
-
Intent to hammer by 7:00pm forum time.
I have a little spare time and can wait.
I still have that exercise for faust to do! Sorry -- Thursday evenings are busy! At least if I post it now, town can have something to pick over in the night.
I'll try to get to it in the next half hour; if you want to hammer before then, I guess there's a reasonable chance of twilight lasting :-)
PPE 2: Ah, there's the hammer! Damn.
-
Thread locked.
-
Vote Count 5.4
iguanaiguana (6): faust, SpaceAnemone, RoadRunner7671, Dylan32, Awaclus, iguanaiguana
SpaceAnemone (3): LaLight, O, sudgy
Not Voting (2): Galzria, Jimmmmm
With 11 alive it took 6 to lynch.
-
Masons should claim immediately. Could know lots of rolls here with IC in the mix.
And, I think we've pretty well covered any C9++ theory. Good straight-forward set-up. I like it.
If by "pretty well covered" you mean terribly and not at all. This is exactly the type of misdirection I would use as scum in this setup. I've modded it twice. Both times town won handily with great scum hunting, especially from newbie ICs. They did not figure out the setup via theory, as theo would have you think.
vote: theorel. Not RVS.
Ash, I believe you've only witnessed the theory discussions about this setup posted as a mod but never actually played in a C9++ game. What do you think of this setup? What kind of mistakes have we made analyzing it earlier?
Hey. Agree that I would like to hear Ash's thoughts on C9++, and the discussion may be beneficial for those of us who have never played it, but ultimately it's usually not solvable until much later, so we shouldn't beat it o death currently.
Ash, I believe you've only witnessed the theory discussions about this setup posted as a mod but never actually played in a C9++ game. What do you think of this setup? What kind of mistakes have we made analyzing it earlier?
I'm glad you asked.
Hey. Agree that I would like to hear Ash's thoughts on C9++, and the discussion may be beneficial for those of us who have never played it, but ultimately it's usually not solvable until much later, so we shouldn't beat it o death currently.
Incorrect, scum #2.
Nooooooooooooo! Not the ash I agree with! *drowns in a sea of wine*
Iguanaiguana, the Mafia Goon, has been lynched!
Night 5 begins now. All players must check-in with me during Night 5 by posting in their personal or shared QTs. Failure to do so could result in modkill. Actions are due within 48 hours. Day 6 begins Saturday, June 17th, at 5:00 PM Forum Time.
-
:'(we're really doing this? Fine. I'm the vig. Ash was a VT.
I believe him. It was SUCHABADMOVE though.
I am not so sure that I do. This looks more like something that scum mail-mi might feel like he has to do.
MAIL-MI, WHAT ABOUT YOUR NIGHT 2 SHOT? ANSWER RIGHT NOW WITHOUT THINKING OR YOU GET LYNCHED.
I didn't shoot N2. Ash was Amy Pond.
Later
Robz, WHAT ABOUT YOUR NIGHT ACTIONS ANSWER RIGHT NOW WITHOUT THINKING OR YOU GET LYNCHED.
Jimmmmm, the Masonic Lover, has been killed.
DAY 6 START!
THREAD UNLOCKED.
-
Vote Count 6.1
Not Voting (9): Galzria, faust, SpaceAnemone, RoadRunner7671, Dylan32, Awaclus, LaLight, O, sudgy
With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day 6 ends Saturday, June 24, at 5:00 PM.
-
Starting tomorrow, I'm going to try to compile all claiming posts together. I'm out of town at the moment, though.
-
So 2 mafia left with 9 people alive, several of whom have claimed PRs/were hid behind?
-
Still at work. Will have a tiny amount of time tonight while packing. vote: sudgy
-
So 2 mafia left with 9 people alive, several of whom have claimed PRs/were hid behind?
I don't know about several. 1 hid behind, 1 PR, plus me who is a PR but cannot do anything.
-
Still at work. Will have a tiny amount of time tonight while packing. vote: sudgy
Not that it matters probably, but what was your target?
-
Starting tomorrow, I'm going to try to compile all claiming posts together. I'm out of town at the moment, though.
Why?
-
My money' on sudgy/LaLight with a possibility of O.
-
Actually O is kind of townie; however you would describe him, I think "weak-willed" is not the word. Surely iguana's exit statement could be WIFOM, but I don't think it is.
-
I don't think O is townie.
-
I don't think O is townie.
Yes I know. So does scum. Yet Jimmmmm died instead of you.
-
Starting tomorrow, I'm going to try to compile all claiming posts together. I'm out of town at the moment, though.
Why?
Not just posting them all, but summarizing them so that it's easier to figure out exactly what happened, and maybe catch someone in a lie of some sort.
-
Starting tomorrow, I'm going to try to compile all claiming posts together. I'm out of town at the moment, though.
Why?
Not just posting them all, but summarizing them so that it's easier to figure out exactly what happened, and maybe catch someone in a lie of some sort.
You should catch up maybe 2 Days or so...
-
Starting tomorrow, I'm going to try to compile all claiming posts together. I'm out of town at the moment, though.
Why?
Not just posting them all, but summarizing them so that it's easier to figure out exactly what happened, and maybe catch someone in a lie of some sort.
You should catch up maybe 2 Days or so...
Yeah, the claims were pretty well sorted out as far as who conflicted with what I thought. If you can find something that 8 other townspeople all missed despite repeated posts with all the claims, please, be my guest. In the meantime, Vote: sudgy
-
Still at work. Will have a tiny amount of time tonight while packing. vote: sudgy
Not that it matters probably, but what was your target?
I targeted Awaclus last night.
Despite having the consistency with which one could set a watch:
I don't think O is townie.
It is, in fact, more than we were getting out of Jimmm.
-
Well Faust is slightly more town than he was to me yesterday. Since I'm apparently addicted to lynching him though I did have another thought:
Deaths:
n1 Gkrieg, Calamitas
n2 Cuzz, Eevee
n3 TWM MCMC PPS
n4 Jake
n5 Jim
So unfortunately (perhaps intentionally) we have no real proof that a Vig even exists this game. And if Galzria is telling the truth, we still have no evidence on Faust's alignment/role. But if Faust is town and did have his vig attempt blocked, then n3 we're missing a scum kill (since Town!faust admits to vigging PPS and TWM died hiding almost certainly), so Galzria as town's only claimed way to prevent deaths would also be confirmed town.
If Faust is scum and lynched, great. If Faust is town and lynched, I'm pretty sure (feel free to correct me) that Galz would be confirmed town for blocking a mafia kill. And if Faust and Galz are confirmed town it heavily suggests that Mafia don't have a strongman since they attempted to use Ashersky for a kill.
Since I like digging myself into holes with bad argument's i'll also throw in this thought I had: Statistically, Space is still more likely than average to be scum because of TWM's actions/results. We have (TWM hides space, dies, both scum) (TWM hides Iguana, dies, space town) and (TWM hides iguana, dies, both scum) as our possibility set.
Both of my observations are probably technically true and not amazingly helpful though.
-
So unfortunately (perhaps intentionally) we have no real proof that a Vig even exists this game. And if Galzria is telling the truth, we still have no evidence on Faust's alignment/role. But if Faust is town and did have his vig attempt blocked, then n3 we're missing a scum kill (since Town!faust admits to vigging PPS and TWM died hiding almost certainly), so Galzria as town's only claimed way to prevent deaths would also be confirmed town.
Not sure I'm parsing everything correctly... what do you mean we have no proff that a vig exists? N3 is proof, no? That many deaths could not have happened without me. Plus I was definitely top of the draft order, so you'd have to make an argument for which role scum!me would have chosen instead.
And what about the N3 "missing kill"? The scum kill is mcmc...
-
I'm fine with Vote: sudgy
-
Galzria is also not confirmed town because two killing roles could have targeted the same player. Still there is good evidence that he is actually town - especially when you consider the matching Galzria/Jake claims.
-
Something interesting to consider: Should we assume scum has a good PR left?
I'm thinking Roleblocker/Strongman. But if scum has a Strongman, it would not make sense for ash to have performed the kill N2. On the other hand, if scum has a Roleblocker, then it's weird that they didn't block one of the claimed PRs on N2.
So that makes me think they might not have these roles. So they probably need to kill Galzria next. Thus, a suggestion for Galzria: try to target scum the next night, not Awaclus.
-
Vote Count 6.2
sudgy (3): Galzria, Dylan32, faust
Not Voting (6): SpaceAnemone, RoadRunner7671, Awaclus, LaLight, O, sudgy
With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day 6 ends Saturday, June 24, at 5:00 PM.
-
@faust, sorry for the delay in getting you those vote counts! I've been away this weekend and am now at the mercy of the worst of British train issues, phone-posting from I-don't-even-know-where. I have a list for you on my computer, though.
Please nobody end the day too early? Thanks!
-
@faust, sorry for the delay in getting you those vote counts! I've been away this weekend and am now at the mercy of the worst of British train issues, phone-posting from I-don't-even-know-where. I have a list for you on my computer, though.
Please nobody end the day too early? Thanks!
Sure, thanks!
unvote for now.
-
@faust, sorry for the delay in getting you those vote counts! I've been away this weekend and am now at the mercy of the worst of British train issues, phone-posting from I-don't-even-know-where. I have a list for you on my computer, though.
Please nobody end the day too early? Thanks!
At airport early so I've got some time.
I actually was going to do this this game! But I didn't write a script and was keeping track of everything by hand. I was going to keep it updated and post the tracker during twilight each day so we could see who voted who throughout the day/game... but it got very tedious very quickly in a game this size and I stopped halfway through d1.
Haha, I had commented in my personal qt that my vote counter was going to be the new post counter.
-
@faust, sorry for the delay in getting you those vote counts! I've been away this weekend and am now at the mercy of the worst of British train issues, phone-posting from I-don't-even-know-where. I have a list for you on my computer, though.
Please nobody end the day too early? Thanks!
At airport early so I've got some time.
I actually was going to do this this game! But I didn't write a script and was keeping track of everything by hand. I was going to keep it updated and post the tracker during twilight each day so we could see who voted who throughout the day/game... but it got very tedious very quickly in a game this size and I stopped halfway through d1.
Haha, I had commented in my personal qt that my vote counter was going to be the new post counter.
Unfortunate for you that it will be known as Space's vote counter now since they announced it before you then, isn't it lol
-
@faust, sorry for the delay in getting you those vote counts! I've been away this weekend and am now at the mercy of the worst of British train issues, phone-posting from I-don't-even-know-where. I have a list for you on my computer, though.
Please nobody end the day too early? Thanks!
At airport early so I've got some time.
I actually was going to do this this game! But I didn't write a script and was keeping track of everything by hand. I was going to keep it updated and post the tracker during twilight each day so we could see who voted who throughout the day/game... but it got very tedious very quickly in a game this size and I stopped halfway through d1.
Haha, I had commented in my personal qt that my vote counter was going to be the new post counter.
Unfortunate for you that it will be known as Space's vote counter now since they announced it before you then, isn't it lol
I can post my half finished d1 list first!
... No, Space can own it. It's ok. I just found it funny that they had done (at a much better level) something I had wanted to do this game.
-
I don't have a ton of time, so here's some brief thoughts.
I'm treating sudgy like conf!scum. The eleventh hour flip on Space was 100% scum. I'm not saying a townie couldn't have changed their mind sort of like that, but the timing and the way the post sounded just rang all my scum alarms at once.
I think it is fairly likely that Space is town, partly because of iguana's flip, but I felt like Space was town all the way through that. So they might both be scum, but I don't think it is likely. Either way, Space would be a bad lynch today, which makes me happy that no one has been trying to push that yet.
I'm still have a lingering suspicion of a scum!faust. He was way townier for the iguana wagon, but at the same time, being a driving the bus on two partners D4 and D5 would (did) earn some pretty massive towncred, so I'm not ready to just trust him yet.
Well Faust is slightly more town than he was to me yesterday. Since I'm apparently addicted to lynching him though I did have another thought:
Deaths:
n1 Gkrieg, Calamitas
n2 Cuzz, Eevee
n3 TWM MCMC PPS
n4 Jake
n5 Jim
So unfortunately (perhaps intentionally) we have no real proof that a Vig even exists this game. And if Galzria is telling the truth, we still have no evidence on Faust's alignment/role. But if Faust is town and did have his vig attempt blocked, then n3 we're missing a scum kill (since Town!faust admits to vigging PPS and TWM died hiding almost certainly), so Galzria as town's only claimed way to prevent deaths would also be confirmed town.
If Faust is scum and lynched, great. If Faust is town and lynched, I'm pretty sure (feel free to correct me) that Galz would be confirmed town for blocking a mafia kill. And if Faust and Galz are confirmed town it heavily suggests that Mafia don't have a strongman since they attempted to use Ashersky for a kill.
Since I like digging myself into holes with bad argument's i'll also throw in this thought I had: Statistically, Space is still more likely than average to be scum because of TWM's actions/results. We have (TWM hides space, dies, both scum) (TWM hides Iguana, dies, space town) and (TWM hides iguana, dies, both scum) as our possibility set.
Both of my observations are probably technically true and not amazingly helpful though.
Re: bold - Scum might have a strongman, and rather than blocking a scum kill, Galz might have protected Ash from e N2.
-
Almost forgot to mention, I do think Galz is most likely town, but there is one thing I need to check and think through. I made a note in my personal QT about a situation that might point to scum Galz in the massclaim, but I don't remember if things worked out the way I suspected they might. I'll get to that sometime later.
-
Looking at some things, I should reread ash and iguana at some point. They've done a lot more than Calamitas ever did.
-
I hope this is exactly the set of vote counts faust requested late in D5. It should be "each wagon that received >3 votes at the point when it was the largest", though "the point" can expand out to be "the points".
Note that votes are auto-counted and that I already know that one vote by RR in D1 was skipped because it had no colon, and I haven't made any effort to include it here even though it looked like Robz accepted the vote. Please do point out anything else that you think is amiss, though :-)
BIG WAGONS DAY 1
#713
LL (1): Space
e (1): Andrew
ash (2): LL, iguana
Cuzz (1): Eevee
JR (2): Jake, Galz
TWM (6): JR, ash, Dylan, sudgy, e, mcmc
mcmc (1): gkrieg
sudgy (1): faust
iguana (1): Cuzz
Awaclus (2): O, TWM
O (1): Awaclus
Not Voting (4): Calamitas, PPS, RR, Jimmmmm
#731
LL (1): Space
e (1): Andrew
Cuzz (1): Eevee
JR (2): Jake, Galz
TWM (6): JR, ash, Dylan, sudgy, e, mcmc
ash (1): iguana
mcmc (2): gkrieg, LL
sudgy (1): faust
iguana (1): Cuzz
Awaclus (2): O, TWM
O (1): Awaclus
Not Voting (4): Calamitas, PPS, RR, Jimmmmm
#741
LL (1): Space
e (1): Andrew
Cuzz (1): Eevee
TWM (6): JR, ash, Dylan, sudgy, e, mcmc
ash (1): iguana
mcmc (3): gkrieg, LL, Jake
sudgy (1): faust
JR (1): Galz
iguana (1): Cuzz
Awaclus (2): O, TWM
O (1): Awaclus
Not Voting (4): Calamitas, PPS, RR, Jimmmmm
#782
LL (1): Space
e (1): Andrew
Cuzz (1): Eevee
TWM (6): JR, ash, Dylan, sudgy, e, mcmc
ash (1): iguana
mcmc (4): gkrieg, LL, Jake, TWM
sudgy (1): faust
JR (1): Galz
iguana (1): Cuzz
Awaclus (1): O
O (1): Awaclus
Not Voting (4): Calamitas, PPS, RR, Jimmmmm
#808
LL (1): Space
e (1): Andrew
Cuzz (1): Eevee
TWM (6): JR, ash, Dylan, sudgy, e, mcmc
ash (1): iguana
mcmc (4): gkrieg, LL, Jake, TWM
sudgy (1): faust
JR (1): Galz
iguana (1): Cuzz
Awaclus (1): O
O (1): Awaclus
Andrew (1): PPS
Not Voting (3): Calamitas, RR, Jimmmmm
#849
LL (1): Space
e (1): Andrew
TWM (6): JR, ash, Dylan, sudgy, e, mcmc
ash (1): iguana
mcmc (4): gkrieg, LL, Jake, TWM
sudgy (1): faust
JR (1): Galz
iguana (1): Cuzz
Awaclus (1): O
O (1): Awaclus
Andrew (2): PPS, Eevee
Not Voting (3): Calamitas, RR, Jimmmmm
#876
LL (1): Space
e (1): Andrew
TWM (5): JR, ash, Dylan, sudgy, mcmc
ash (1): iguana
mcmc (4): gkrieg, LL, Jake, TWM
sudgy (1): faust
JR (2): Galz, e
iguana (1): Cuzz
Awaclus (1): O
O (1): Awaclus
Andrew (2): PPS, Eevee
Not Voting (3): Calamitas, RR, Jimmmmm
#883
LL (1): Space
e (1): Andrew
TWM (4): JR, ash, sudgy, mcmc
ash (1): iguana
mcmc (4): gkrieg, LL, Jake, TWM
sudgy (1): faust
JR (3): Galz, e, Dylan
iguana (1): Cuzz
Awaclus (1): O
O (1): Awaclus
Andrew (2): PPS, Eevee
Not Voting (3): Calamitas, RR, Jimmmmm
#976
e (1): Andrew
TWM (4): JR, ash, sudgy, mcmc
ash (1): iguana
mcmc (4): gkrieg, Jake, Space, LL
sudgy (1): faust
JR (5): Galz, e, Dylan, TWM, Eevee
iguana (1): Cuzz
Awaclus (1): O
O (1): Awaclus
Andrew (1): PPS
Not Voting (3): Calamitas, RR, Jimmmmm
#979
e (1): Andrew
TWM (3): JR, ash, mcmc
ash (1): iguana
mcmc (4): gkrieg, Jake, Space, LL
sudgy (1): faust
JR (6): Galz, e, Dylan, TWM, Eevee, sudgy
iguana (1): Cuzz
Awaclus (1): O
O (1): Awaclus
Andrew (1): PPS
Not Voting (3): Calamitas, RR, Jimmmmm
#991
e (1): Andrew
TWM (3): JR, ash, mcmc
mcmc (4): gkrieg, Jake, Space, LL
sudgy (1): faust
JR (7): Galz, e, Dylan, TWM, Eevee, sudgy, iguana
iguana (1): Cuzz
Awaclus (1): O
O (1): Awaclus
Andrew (1): PPS
Not Voting (3): Calamitas, RR, Jimmmmm
#1221
TWM (3): JR, ash, mcmc
sudgy (1): faust
O (1): Awaclus
JR (7): e, Dylan, iguana, gkrieg, LL, Jake, sudgy
mcmc (1): Space
gkrieg (1): Andrew
RR (1): Cuzz
LL (4): Galz, PPS, Eevee, O
Not Voting (4): Calamitas, RR, Jimmmmm, TWM
#1253
TWM (3): JR, ash, mcmc
sudgy (1): faust
O (1): Awaclus
JR (6): e, Dylan, gkrieg, LL, Jake, sudgy
mcmc (1): Space
gkrieg (1): Andrew
RR (1): Cuzz
LL (4): Galz, PPS, Eevee, O
Galz (1): iguana
Not Voting (4): Calamitas, RR, Jimmmmm, TWM
#1400
TWM (1): ash
O (1): Awaclus
JR (10): e, Dylan, gkrieg, LL, Jake, sudgy, iguana, Space, TWM, mcmc
gkrieg (1): Andrew
RR (1): Cuzz
LL (2): Galz, PPS
Galz (2): JR, faust
mcmc (1): RR
Awaclus (2): O, Eevee
Not Voting (2): Calamitas, Jimmmmm
BIG WAGONS DAY 2
#1765
Cuzz (2): faust, Andrew
mcmc (1): Jimmmmm
O (1): Awaclus
Andrew (3): Cuzz, PPS, e
Space (4): LL, O, Eevee, Dylan
TWM (1): sudgy
sudgy (1): TWM
Dylan (1): Galz
Not Voting (6): Space, RR, iguana, ash, mcmc, Jake
#1773
Cuzz (2): faust, Andrew
mcmc (1): Jimmmmm
O (1): Awaclus
Andrew (3): Cuzz, PPS, e
Space (4): LL, O, Eevee, Dylan
TWM (1): sudgy
sudgy (1): TWM
Dylan (1): Galz
Galz (1): iguana
Not Voting (5): Space, RR, ash, mcmc, Jake
#2454
Cuzz (8): faust, sudgy, PPS, Dylan, Andrew, Space, iguana, Jake
O (1): Awaclus
Dylan (1): Galz
Andrew (2): LL, Eevee
Space (1): Cuzz
faust (1): O
Not Voting (6): RR, ash, mcmc, Jimmmmm, TWM, e
#2477
Cuzz (8): faust, sudgy, PPS, Dylan, Andrew, Space, iguana, Jake
O (1): Awaclus
Dylan (1): Galz
Andrew (3): LL, Eevee, O
Space (1): Cuzz
Not Voting (6): RR, ash, mcmc, Jimmmmm, TWM, e
#2478
Cuzz (8): faust, sudgy, PPS, Dylan, Andrew, Space, iguana, Jake
O (1): Awaclus
Dylan (1): Galz
Andrew (4): LL, Eevee, O, RR
Space (1): Cuzz
Not Voting (5): ash, mcmc, Jimmmmm, TWM, e
#2558
Cuzz (5): faust, sudgy, Dylan, Andrew, Space
O (1): Awaclus
Andrew (10): LL, Eevee, O, PPS, Jake, iguana, Jimmmmm, Cuzz, Galz, mcmc
Not Voting (4): ash, TWM, e, RR
BIG WAGONS DAY 3
#2894
ash (4): O, e, Galz, sudgy
e (1): TWM
Jimmmmm (5): faust, PPS, LL, Jake, RR
Not Voting (7): Awaclus, Space, Dylan, iguana, Jimmmmm, ash, mcmc
#3271
ash (5): O, faust, Jake, TWM, e
sudgy (1): Dylan
e (5): RR, LL, PPS, Galz, sudgy
Not Voting (6): Awaclus, Space, iguana, Jimmmmm, ash, mcmc
#3295
ash (5): O, faust, Jake, e, LL
sudgy (1): Dylan
e (5): RR, PPS, Galz, sudgy, TWM
Not Voting (6): Awaclus, Space, iguana, Jimmmmm, ash, mcmc
#3307
ash (5): O, faust, Jake, e, LL
sudgy (1): Dylan
e (6): RR, PPS, Galz, sudgy, TWM, Jimmmmm
Not Voting (5): Awaclus, Space, iguana, ash, mcmc
#3311
ash (5): O, faust, Jake, e, LL
sudgy (1): Dylan
e (5): RR, PPS, Galz, sudgy, TWM
Not Voting (6): Awaclus, Space, iguana, ash, mcmc, Jimmmmm
#3315
ash (5): O, faust, Jake, e, LL
sudgy (1): Dylan
e (6): RR, PPS, Galz, sudgy, TWM, Space
Not Voting (5): Awaclus, iguana, ash, mcmc, Jimmmmm
#3319
ash (5): O, faust, Jake, e, LL
sudgy (1): Dylan
e (7): RR, PPS, Galz, sudgy, TWM, Space, Jimmmmm
Not Voting (4): Awaclus, iguana, ash, mcmc
#3323
ash (3): O, faust, Jake
sudgy (1): Dylan
e (10): RR, PPS, Galz, sudgy, TWM, Space, Jimmmmm, LL, e, mcmc
Not Voting (3): Awaclus, iguana, ash
BIG WAGONS DAY 4
#3591
ash (7): faust, LL, sudgy, Jake, Space, iguana, ash
Not Voting (6): Galz, Awaclus, Dylan, RR, Jimmmmm, O
BIG WAGONS DAY 5
#3765
iguana (4): faust, Space, RR, Dylan
Space (4): iguana, LL, O, sudgy
O (1): Awaclus
Not Voting (2): Galz, Jimmmmm
#3768
iguana (5): faust, Space, RR, Dylan, Awaclus
Space (4): iguana, LL, O, sudgy
Not Voting (2): Galz, Jimmmmm
#3773
iguana (6): faust, Space, RR, Dylan, Awaclus, iguana
Space (3): LL, O, sudgy
Not Voting (2): Galz, Jimmmmm
-
In my defense for my read switch yesterday, I had never really decided for myself what I thought of both of them. It was just from memory and, I'll admit, other people's reads. I reread them myself and finally made my own decision.
Also, as scum, my reads on them would have to be fake, and I wouldn't change a fake read for no reason when it looks super scummy to do so.
-
In my defense for my read switch yesterday, I had never really decided for myself what I thought of both of them. It was just from memory and, I'll admit, other people's reads. I reread them myself and finally made my own decision.
Also, as scum, my reads on them would have to be fake, and I wouldn't change a fake read for no reason when it looks super scummy to do so.
But it wouldn't have been for no reason. It would have been to try to cause us to mislynch a townie before we lynch your partner instead of lynching correctly first.
-
In my defense for my read switch yesterday, I had never really decided for myself what I thought of both of them. It was just from memory and, I'll admit, other people's reads. I reread them myself and finally made my own decision.
Also, as scum, my reads on them would have to be fake, and I wouldn't change a fake read for no reason when it looks super scummy to do so.
But it wouldn't have been for no reason. It would have been to try to cause us to mislynch a townie before we lynch your partner instead of lynching correctly first.
As scum, I try my hardest to not let who my partners are affect how I play. I would never do that as scum for that reason.
-
Here are the final lynch wagons from each day with known alignments colored in.
D1
JR (10): e, Dylan, gkrieg, LL, Jake, sudgy, iguana, Space, TWM, mcmc
D2
Andrew (10): LL, Eevee, O, PPS, Jake, iguana, Jimmmmm, Cuzz, Galz, mcmc
D3
e (10): RR, PPS, Galz, sudgy, TWM, Space, Jimmmmm, LL, e, mcmc (The script didn't stop at the hammer, mcmc's didn't count)
D4
ash (7): faust, LL, sudgy, Jake, Space, iguana, ash
D5
iguana (6): faust, Space, RR, Dylan, Awaclus, iguana
Final wagon stats:
Lynch target = T SK M
LL - 2 1 1
sudgy - 1 1 1
O - 1 0 0
Galz - 1 1 0
faust - 0 0 2
Space - 1 2 2
Dylan - 1 0 1
RR - 0 1 1
-
Here are the final lynch wagons from each day with known alignments colored in.
D1
JR (10): e, Dylan, gkrieg, LL, Jake, sudgy, iguana, Space, TWM, mcmc
D2
Andrew (10): LL, Eevee, O, PPS, Jake, iguana, Jimmmmm, Cuzz, Galz, mcmc
D3
e (10): RR, PPS, Galz, sudgy, TWM, Space, Jimmmmm, LL, e, mcmc (The script didn't stop at the hammer, mcmc's didn't count)
D4
ash (7): faust, LL, sudgy, Jake, Space, iguana, ash
D5
iguana (6): faust, Space, RR, Dylan, Awaclus, iguana
Final wagon stats:
Lynch target = T SK M
LL - 2 1 1
sudgy - 1 1 1
O - 1 0 0
Galz - 1 1 0
faust - 0 0 2
Space - 1 2 2
Dylan - 1 0 1
RR - 0 1 1
Forgot to include Awaclus at bottom. 0T/0SK/1M
-
Also just noticed I put Space with 2 SK lynches...
-
I'm not going to do it right now cuz sleep, but it might be good if someone would go through and list people who were on wagons on scum but then left it before the end of the day.
-
Okay, so cutting down on just the big wagons, there's
TWM (6): JR, ash, Dylan, sudgy, e, mcmc
TWM (6): JR, ash, Dylan, sudgy, e, mcmc
mcmc (3): gkrieg, LL, Jake
TWM (6): JR, ash, Dylan, sudgy, e, mcmc
mcmc (4): gkrieg, LL, Jake, TWM
TWM (6): JR, ash, Dylan, sudgy, mcmc
mcmc (4): gkrieg, LL, Jake, TWM
TWM (3): JR, ash, mcmc
mcmc (4): gkrieg, Jake, Space, LL
JR (6): Galz, e, Dylan, TWM, Eevee, sudgy
#991
e (1): Andrew
TWM (3): JR, ash, mcmc
mcmc (4): gkrieg, Jake, Space, LL
sudgy (1): faust
JR (7): Galz, e, Dylan, TWM, Eevee, sudgy, iguana
iguana (1): Cuzz
Awaclus (1): O
O (1): Awaclus
Andrew (1): PPS
Not Voting (3): Calamitas, RR, Jimmmmm
TWM (3): JR, ash, mcmc
JR (7): e, Dylan, iguana, gkrieg[color], LL, Jake, sudgy
LL (4): Galz, PPS, Eevee, O
JR (10): e, Dylan, gkrieg, LL, Jake, sudgy, iguana, Space, TWM, mcmc
BIG WAGONS DAY 2
Space (4): LL, O, Eevee, Dylan
Cuzz (8): faust, sudgy, PPS, Dylan, Andrew, Space, [coor=red]iguana, Jake
Cuzz (5): faust, sudgy, Dylan, Andrew, Space
Andrew (10): LL, Eevee, O, PPS, Jake, iguana, Jimmmmm, Cuzz, Galz, mcmc
BIG WAGONS DAY 3
ash (4): O, e, Galz, sudgy
Jimmmmm (5): faust, PPS, LL, Jake, RR
ash (5): O, faust, Jake, TWM, e
e (5): RR, LL, PPS, Galz, sudgy
ash (5): O, faust, Jake, e, LL
e (5): RR, PPS, Galz, sudgy, TWM
#3307
ash (5): O, faust, Jake, e, LL
sudgy (1): Dylan
e (6): RR, PPS, Galz, sudgy, TWM, Jimmmmm
Not Voting (5): Awaclus, Space, iguana, ash, mcmc
e (9): RR, PPS, Galz, sudgy, TWM, Space, Jimmmmm, LL, e
BIG WAGONS DAY 4
ash (7): faust, LL, sudgy, Jake, Space, iguana, ash
-
I should really preview these things.
TWM (6): JR, ash, Dylan, sudgy, e, mcmc
TWM (6): JR, ash, Dylan, sudgy, e, mcmc
mcmc (3): gkrieg, LL, Jake
TWM (6): JR, ash, Dylan, sudgy, e, mcmc
mcmc (4): gkrieg, LL, Jake, TWM
TWM (6): JR, ash, Dylan, sudgy, mcmc
mcmc (4): gkrieg, LL, Jake, TWM
TWM (3): JR, ash, mcmc
mcmc (4): gkrieg, Jake, Space, LL
JR (6): Galz, e, Dylan, TWM, Eevee, sudgy
TWM (3): JR, ash, mcmc
JR (7): e, Dylan, iguana, gkrieg, LL, Jake, sudgy
LL (4): Galz, PPS, Eevee, O
JR (10): e, Dylan, gkrieg, LL, Jake, sudgy, iguana, Space, TWM, mcmc
BIG WAGONS DAY 2
Space (4): LL, O, Eevee, Dylan
Cuzz (8): faust, sudgy, PPS, Dylan, Andrew, Space, iguana, Jake
Cuzz (5): faust, sudgy, Dylan, Andrew, Space
Andrew (10): LL, Eevee, O, PPS, Jake, iguana, Jimmmmm, Cuzz, Galz, mcmc
BIG WAGONS DAY 3
ash (4): O, e, Galz, sudgy
Jimmmmm (5): faust, PPS, LL, Jake, RR
ash (5): O, faust, Jake, TWM, e
e (5): RR, LL, PPS, Galz, sudgy
ash (5): O, faust, Jake, e, LL
e (5): RR, PPS, Galz, sudgy, TWM
#3307
ash (5): O, faust, Jake, e, LL
sudgy (1): Dylan
e (6): RR, PPS, Galz, sudgy, TWM, Jimmmmm
Not Voting (5): Awaclus, Space, iguana, ash, mcmc
e (9): RR, PPS, Galz, sudgy, TWM, Space, Jimmmmm, LL, e
BIG WAGONS DAY 4
ash (7): faust, LL, sudgy, Jake, Space, iguana, ash
-
Things of note:
- we have a small LL wagon on D1 that seems town-driven. The only wagon on potential scum that day.
- a large number of suspects are on the Reggie wagon in the end. I think it's not all that likely that we have 3 scum on there, given that all main wagons were on town... that would make teams among these less likely.
- small wagon in Space on D2 features some scummy players.
D3 and D4 are a lot less informative unfortunately. But right now I'm leaing towards Vote: LaLight
-
TWM (3): JR, ash, mcmc
JR (7): e, Dylan, iguana, gkrieg, LL, Jake, sudgy
LL (4): Galz, PPS, Eevee, O
here he is avoiding the wagon. He knows that 1 or even 2 of this partners are there, so he votes for me. I am actually quite sure that there's more than 1 scum on this one:
JR (10): e, Dylan, gkrieg, LL, Jake, sudgy, iguana, Space, TWM, mcmc
BIG WAGONS DAY 2
All the same people are on Cuzz, O is avoiding it again:
Space (4): LL, O, Eevee, Dylan
Cuzz (8): faust, sudgy, PPS, Dylan, Andrew, Space, iguana, Jake
Then he joins Andrew's wagon which in the end might mean, that there was no scum other than iguana and O. The other opportunity is Galz, but he's like the one I townread. Makes sense:
Cuzz (5): faust, sudgy, Dylan, Andrew, Space
Andrew (10): LL, Eevee, O, PPS, Jake, iguana, Jimmmmm, Cuzz, Galz, mcmc
BIG WAGONS DAY 3
Hardbussing started. Looks like they planned this bussing so O never switch off of ash. The same thing ash did with J Reggie in Gravity Falls.
ash (4): O, e, Galz, sudgy
Jimmmmm (5): faust, PPS, LL, Jake, RR
ash (5): O, faust, Jake, TWM, e
e (5): RR, LL, PPS, Galz, sudgy
ash (5): O, faust, Jake, e, LL
e (5): RR, PPS, Galz, sudgy, TWM
#3307
ash (5): O, faust, Jake, e, LL
sudgy (1): Dylan
e (6): RR, PPS, Galz, sudgy, TWM, Jimmmmm
Not Voting (5): Awaclus, Space, iguana, ash, mcmc
And O is avoiding the main wagon again.
e (9): RR, PPS, Galz, sudgy, TWM, Space, Jimmmmm, LL, e
BIG WAGONS DAY 4
bussing stopped. Why have O decided to stay away after continuous voting for ash D3? To stay away from the main wagon obviously.
ash (7): faust, LL, sudgy, Jake, Space, iguana, ash
O is flying under the radar, never joins the main wagons (even if he scumread people for quite some time) and overall is scummy from my PoV.
vote: O
-
I admit that my activity level dropped enormously, but I don't want to be a reason town loses, frankly. There are many suspects, we can't just lynch them one by one, we have like 4 mislynches left
-
I wish everyone would just prove they are townie in some way and we kill the ones that didn't do it.
And the most troubling is: I don't have a bit of an idea if faust is town or scum
-
Galz, Awaclus and RR are te only three people I would rank as LeanTown
-
I wish everyone would just prove they are townie in some way and we kill the ones that didn't do it.
It's a good plan. Go ahead and prove it.
-
O is flying under the radar, never joins the main wagons (even if he scumread people for quite some time) and overall is scummy from my PoV.
Can you provide examples of O expressing a scumread on a wagon he did not join?
-
I wish everyone would just prove they are townie in some way and we kill the ones that didn't do it.
It's a good plan. Go ahead and prove it.
Well. I can say things and you can believe them or not. I had no idea Calamitas was scum and I was thinking back then on D1 that Calamitas and Space won't participate too much in the game because D1 is hard for them. Then he flipped and I thought "wow, that's good, there won't be and endgame gambits like in M88 (which was named as the most interesting by me in the first stage of the drafting order) but that was surprising anyway. I mean why would e shoot him? I was thinking about it back then.
Then all mcmc/TWM thing started and it was cool on the one hand because I liked the plan but wasn't because it was goona break the game, but I have decided to go along, because what choice do we get? Arguing endlessly about if the game is lost for scum or not is not making the game more interesting and is not informative.
Then RR/e thing started and I was sure that both of them are scum who confused something in their QT and then they are trying to distance from each other. But! E flipped SK and I have felt like RR;s reaction was genuine (this is one of the reasons I TR him now).
Then ash and his claim. Up until the end I wanted to listen to what he has to say but the day ended and ash said nothing. After that he came and claimed impossible that you are InvImm never answering how the hell are there 3 deaths then? So he was clearly scum who had a plan, but something went wrong and he was clearly busted so we obviously lynched him. I tried to imagine the world where he is town and it even came up: he was rbd N1 and JKd N2,3 so he could be town. But his constant ignoring the "3 deaths" question was scummy. We lynched him and I was glad it worked.
Then iguana/Space situation was on the table. I admit this: I haven't thought that the chances of one of them being scum are higher than the chances that none of them is scum. Because we don't know what TWM have done. What if in the end he hid behind, like, you? And we got lycky kynching igu? That was that stopped me and there is very much things to take into the consideration so I was flailing. Somewhere in the thread TWM admitted he won't blindly follow plan because he thinks he can do more interesting things. WHat if he hid behind someone else? And your wish to narrow the lynchpool to 2 people was scummy in my eyes, I am sorry. So I was inactive trying to find the time to settle it all up in my head. While I was doing this, you lynched scum and thank you! It really worked, even if it was a coincidence. But what if indeed it was a coincidence and Space might be scum and whoever else might be scum? That's what driving me quite insane: a lot of suspects.
Now. I can see why you think I am scummy but this is my natural behaviour, I am too confused. I needed and need some starting point, an anchor, from which I will go to form strong natural reads, and right now I am finding it: wagon analysis points at O as scum in my eyes. Galzria and RR are townie in my eyes. I will go from here.
-
O is flying under the radar, never joins the main wagons (even if he scumread people for quite some time) and overall is scummy from my PoV.
Can you provide examples of O expressing a scumread on a wagon he did not join?
Obviously ash. O was telling ash is the scummiest one here and stuff, but in the end he was not on the wagon as you clearly can see
-
by the way my longpost is "A Game In A Nutshell" for everyone :)
-
Also i think i can think of a reason ash was sent to kill instead of a strongman. Too much people in the game, strongman is useful, the protective wouldn't defend someone they want to kill and there are investigativea so better send goon just to be secure. Strongman becomes increasingly stronger in the lategame
-
@Robz, are all these coloured vote counts okay?
As I'd said when I first mentioned my wagon-counter, I've been deliberately posting monochrome ones because of this:
In the future, do not color these. Colored text is reserved for the mod. This could easily be mistaken for an official vote count.
However, we've now had lots of other people colouring in the wagons, and it's obviously much easier to read than the monochrome (and saves duplication of effort, given that I auto-colour at the same time as auto-generating), so can I take it that it's acceptable for us to use colour in this particular late-game-discussion context?
-
O is flying under the radar, never joins the main wagons (even if he scumread people for quite some time) and overall is scummy from my PoV.
Can you provide examples of O expressing a scumread on a wagon he did not join?
Obviously ash. O was telling ash is the scummiest one here and stuff, but in the end he was not on the wagon as you clearly can see
Well I see this:
I'm ready to L-1 Ashersky if we think we're done with relevant discussion. The game seems to have slowed down substantially.
I don't think you can say O stopped bussing just because he wanted to give everyone a chance to speak their minds.
-
O is flying under the radar, never joins the main wagons (even if he scumread people for quite some time) and overall is scummy from my PoV.
Can you provide examples of O expressing a scumread on a wagon he did not join?
Obviously ash. O was telling ash is the scummiest one here and stuff, but in the end he was not on the wagon as you clearly can see
Well I see this:
I'm ready to L-1 Ashersky if we think we're done with relevant discussion. The game seems to have slowed down substantially.
I don't think you can say O stopped bussing just because he wanted to give everyone a chance to speak their minds.
Ah! Noted. Anyway what about all the others major wagons? Expressing the will to vote and to vote are different things
-
I don't know. With regards to what other wagon did O express a willingness to vote and didn't?
-
I don't know. With regards to what other wagon did O express a willingness to vote and didn't?
I will search, but this is not what I mean. I mean he could not express that, say, Cuzz is scummy, he could even townread him. The aim about which I am talking, is to avoid the wagon entirely, there are several ways to do that
-
I don't know. With regards to what other wagon did O express a willingness to vote and didn't?
I will search, but this is not what I mean. I mean he could not express that, say, Cuzz is scummy, he could even townread him. The aim about which I am talking, is to avoid the wagon entirely, there are several ways to do that
Yes, but in that particular example I am pretty sure that O townread Cuzz hard way before the wagon was a thing, so him not joining that wagon isn't alignment-indicative in any way.
-
I agree that scum has some motivation to avoid wagons especially on D1, and that O did that is a small scum sign. But he didn't avoid the D2 wagon, and actions with regards to the e wagon don't matter much because he was caught anyway. So the evidence you're presenting it terribly weak.
-
I agree that scum has some motivation to avoid wagons especially on D1, and that O did that is a small scum sign. But he didn't avoid the D2 wagon, and actions with regards to the e wagon don't matter much because he was caught anyway. So the evidence you're presenting it terribly weak.
Well, yeah, it's weak, I guess. I looked through wagons and it really caught my eye..
-
Doesn't mean i'm scum tho, does it?
I'll look more
-
@Robz, are all these coloured vote counts okay?
As I'd said when I first mentioned my wagon-counter, I've been deliberately posting monochrome ones because of this:
In the future, do not color these. Colored text is reserved for the mod. This could easily be mistaken for an official vote count.
However, we've now had lots of other people colouring in the wagons, and it's obviously much easier to read than the monochrome (and saves duplication of effort, given that I auto-colour at the same time as auto-generating), so can I take it that it's acceptable for us to use colour in this particular late-game-discussion context?
I'll allow it.
-
@Robz, are all these coloured vote counts okay?
As I'd said when I first mentioned my wagon-counter, I've been deliberately posting monochrome ones because of this:
In the future, do not color these. Colored text is reserved for the mod. This could easily be mistaken for an official vote count.
However, we've now had lots of other people colouring in the wagons, and it's obviously much easier to read than the monochrome (and saves duplication of effort, given that I auto-colour at the same time as auto-generating), so can I take it that it's acceptable for us to use colour in this particular late-game-discussion context?
I'll allow it.
Fab! Thank you :-)
-
I think this is one of the vote-states I haven't posted already in the set for faust. It's a point where the Cuzz wagon was winding down and the Andrew wagon was growing in D2:
#2484
Cuzz (5): faust, sudgy, Dylan, Andrew, Space
O (1): Awaclus
Dylan (1): Galz
Andrew (7): LL, Eevee, O, RR, PPS, Jake, iguana
Space (1): Cuzz
Not Voting (5): ash, mcmc, Jimmmmm, TWM, e
It's got a characteristic sort of split for quite a lot of D1/D2: sudgy and Dylan are voting for the same person (in D1, sudgy voted the same as Dylan, but several vote-posts later each time), and iguana has joined a leading town-mislynch wagon. I'm betting the earlier on-wagon scum is LL, but I'd hear arguments for it being O as well.
-
@LL, The Space or iguana thing was because TWM announced that if mcmc didn't get the hammer, he would roll a dice and based on result he would either not hide or hide behind one of those two people. Mcmc did not get the hammer, so the simplest conclusion was that at least one of those two were scum.
-
Sorry Robz if that colored text wasn't something you wanted. I was under the impression that you were meaning specifically don't use colored text on the vote counts to avoid confusion there.
-
Looking at those vote counts, I'm betting that LL and sudgy are the last two scum. I would go for either, but with a strong preference for sudgy, because I've been scumreading him for a while and was only null to very very slight scum leaning on LL until this.
-
Looking at those vote counts, I'm betting that LL and sudgy are the last two scum. I would go for either, but with a strong preference for sudgy, because I've been scumreading him for a while and was only null to very very slight scum leaning on LL until this.
why me?
-
TWM (3): JR, ash, mcmc
JR (7): e, Dylan, iguana, gkrieg, LL, Jake, sudgy
LL (4): Galz, PPS, Eevee, O
here he is avoiding the wagon. He knows that 1 or even 2 of this partners are there, so he votes for me. I am actually quite sure that there's more than 1 scum on this one:
JR (10): e, Dylan, gkrieg, LL, Jake, sudgy, iguana, Space, TWM, mcmc
BIG WAGONS DAY 2
All the same people are on Cuzz, O is avoiding it again:
Space (4): LL, O, Eevee, Dylan
Cuzz (8): faust, sudgy, PPS, Dylan, Andrew, Space, iguana, Jake
Then he joins Andrew's wagon which in the end might mean, that there was no scum other than iguana and O. The other opportunity is Galz, but he's like the one I townread. Makes sense:
Cuzz (5): faust, sudgy, Dylan, Andrew, Space
Andrew (10): LL, Eevee, O, PPS, Jake, iguana, Jimmmmm, Cuzz, Galz, mcmc
BIG WAGONS DAY 3
Hardbussing started. Looks like they planned this bussing so O never switch off of ash. The same thing ash did with J Reggie in Gravity Falls.
ash (4): O, e, Galz, sudgy
Jimmmmm (5): faust, PPS, LL, Jake, RR
ash (5): O, faust, Jake, TWM, e
e (5): RR, LL, PPS, Galz, sudgy
ash (5): O, faust, Jake, e, LL
e (5): RR, PPS, Galz, sudgy, TWM
#3307
ash (5): O, faust, Jake, e, LL
sudgy (1): Dylan
e (6): RR, PPS, Galz, sudgy, TWM, Jimmmmm
Not Voting (5): Awaclus, Space, iguana, ash, mcmc
And O is avoiding the main wagon again.
e (9): RR, PPS, Galz, sudgy, TWM, Space, Jimmmmm, LL, e
BIG WAGONS DAY 4
bussing stopped. Why have O decided to stay away after continuous voting for ash D3? To stay away from the main wagon obviously.
ash (7): faust, LL, sudgy, Jake, Space, iguana, ash
O is flying under the radar, never joins the main wagons (even if he scumread people for quite some time) and overall is scummy from my PoV.
vote: O
1. I consistently townread Cuzz since day 1. So that's two "wagons" that I have clear reason not to be on.
2. I was on the Ashersky wagon, as Faust has helpfully pointed out. I scumread Ashersky ever since he complained so hard about setup.
3. I was on the Andrew wagon. If you reread the day it's clear I'm mostly playing "follow the ICs" and "Cuzz is a terrible lynch".
4. As you have pointed out I have periodically been scumreading Space throughout the game. Perhaps(?) this was wrong, but it makes a lot more sense for me to vote the 50/50 I've been scumreading than the 50/50 I have no real reads on.
-
Not sure I'm parsing everything correctly... what do you mean we have no proff that a vig exists? N3 is proof, no? That many deaths could not have happened without me. Plus I was definitely top of the draft order, so you'd have to make an argument for which role scum!me would have chosen instead.
And what about the N3 "missing kill"? The scum kill is mcmc...
Night 3 kills could very plausibly be SK, Mafia, and Hider-Behind mafia.
OK yeah i fucked up the lynch order in my head. N3 happens after D3.
So Galzria is very very likely but I still believe not confirmed town
-
Not sure I'm parsing everything correctly... what do you mean we have no proff that a vig exists? N3 is proof, no? That many deaths could not have happened without me. Plus I was definitely top of the draft order, so you'd have to make an argument for which role scum!me would have chosen instead.
And what about the N3 "missing kill"? The scum kill is mcmc...
Night 3 kills could very plausibly be SK, Mafia, and Hider-Behind mafia.
OK yeah i fucked up the lynch order in my head. N3 happens after D3.
So Galzria is very very likely but I still believe not confirmed town
N2 kills were weird. One was faust's as he admitted and one e's, no mafia's iirc
-
Not sure I'm parsing everything correctly... what do you mean we have no proff that a vig exists? N3 is proof, no? That many deaths could not have happened without me. Plus I was definitely top of the draft order, so you'd have to make an argument for which role scum!me would have chosen instead.
And what about the N3 "missing kill"? The scum kill is mcmc...
Night 3 kills could very plausibly be SK, Mafia, and Hider-Behind mafia.
OK yeah i fucked up the lynch order in my head. N3 happens after D3.
So Galzria is very very likely but I still believe not confirmed town
N2 kills were weird. One was faust's as he admitted and one e's, no mafia's iirc
Ash was Jailed N2 right?
That's why I don't think there's a strongman.
-
Not sure I'm parsing everything correctly... what do you mean we have no proff that a vig exists? N3 is proof, no? That many deaths could not have happened without me. Plus I was definitely top of the draft order, so you'd have to make an argument for which role scum!me would have chosen instead.
And what about the N3 "missing kill"? The scum kill is mcmc...
Night 3 kills could very plausibly be SK, Mafia, and Hider-Behind mafia.
OK yeah i fucked up the lynch order in my head. N3 happens after D3.
So Galzria is very very likely but I still believe not confirmed town
N2 kills were weird. One was faust's as he admitted and one e's, no mafia's iirc
Ash was Jailed N2 right?
That's why I don't think there's a strongman.
yeah. And I already explained why they might send goon
-
Ash reread (including mentions of him, darn PPS' signature that quotes him):
In #346 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg693672#msg693672) he says that O is towny and gkrieg, mcmc, TWM, and faust are all scummy. Then town on Cuzz in the next post.
Lalight is willing to lynch RR, mcmc, and ash in #483 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg693827#msg693827).
He calls faust scummy again in #498 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg693842#msg693842), but later says he was joking.
Then, in #549 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg693894#msg693894), faust says he wants to take ash out of the lynch pool. Interesting.
In #556 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg693902#msg693902) LaLight says that ash, mcmc, RR, gkrieg, and TWM have all done something scummy and is fine lynching any of them.
O gives several reads in #654 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg694041#msg694041), putting Awaclus, faust, gkrieg, RR, and ash in his scum camp.
In #896 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg694292#msg694292) faust keeps ash out of the lynch pool, along with RR, LaLight, TWM, iguana, O, mcmc, and Andrew.
Ash in #914 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg694310#msg694310) says that Galzria, gkrieg, and faust have done a few towny things.
Ash in #1093 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg694519#msg694519) says faust is town, and says Galzria's read on faust is towny.
In #1819 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg695616#msg695616) (man that's a big jump) RR does his scumpoints thing, and ash is very slightly towny, with basically no points.
In #1946 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg695781#msg695781) O has a big would lynch list (9 players) which includes ash.
Then mcmc's claim and the plan came. At this point ash is becoming increasingly obviously scum. People scumreading ash here aren't as suspicious now.
After the HH claim and plan, in #2143 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg696110#msg696110) O says that the biggest whiners (which he lists as ash, faust, and Galzria) are most likely to be scum. He then votes for him in #2151. Continues saying he's scum in #2178.
Galzria in #2198 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg696188#msg696188) posts his preferred lynch order, and ash is in the middle (iguana's also in the middle, too).
Dylan puts ash in "lean town" in his preferred lynch order in #2243 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg696249#msg696249). And in #2263 he says "I think Ash is most likely town, but recognize he could be scum."
Galzria claims to have jailed ash in #2669 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg697223#msg697223), and kind of votes for him in #2682. He says he probably blocked ash N2.
O keeps on saying ash is scum.
Faust says that ash in nowhere near confiremd scum in #2693 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg697248#msg697248).
O finally votes for ash in #2721 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg697279#msg697279).
Ash that Galzria reads as town but his play seems like scum in #2740 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg697306#msg697306).
In #2791 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg697375#msg697375), ash suggest Awaclus should lead the massclaim. In another reread that I'm taking a break from, I realized that there is a possibility that Awaclus and RR were bus driven when TWM tried to hide (not too likely, but possible), so this could ring alarm bells.
In #2794 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg697379#msg697379), galzria finally votes for ash.
In Awaclus' claim order in #2847 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg697482#msg697482), ash and iguana are on the lower end of the list.
In #2915 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg697607#msg697607), Dylan is leaning scum on ash.
Ash starts ridiculous claiming in #3041 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg697818#msg697818). Faust likes it, O doesn't, LaLight doesn't.
Ash seems to suggest that faust is scum in #3262 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg698382#msg698382), but at this point I don't think we can trust ash anymore.
Lalight votes ash in #3295 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg698418#msg698418).
In #3302 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg698426#msg698426), Space says she wants to vote for ash but seems unsure.
Faust says RR and ash are scum in #3334 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg698458#msg698458).
Fuast votes ash in #3374 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg698828#msg698828). However, ash is even more obvscum than he was already before.
LaLight also votes ash in #3397 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg698917#msg698917).
RR says ash is scummy in #3408 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg698952#msg698952).
So, faust and ash are having a huge fight here.
Space says she could vote ash. I'm not sure where the first post that she says this is.
Galzria claims to have jailed ash in #3472 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg699074#msg699074)
RR seems to want to lynch faust more than ash.
Galzria wants to lynch in #3529 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg699305#msg699305), but is uncertain if he would rather lynch faust because of the consequences. He switches to definitely ash a couple posts later.
Space puts in tons of evidence towards ash being scum in #3549 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg699534#msg699534), bring his chances of being scum from 200% to 300%.
I'm sorry, I'm really tired now after doing that whole thing. I'll come back later.
-
Sup guys, don't prod me thanks
-
@sudgy: At #3262 in your reread, you say that you don't think we can trust Ash anymore at this point. WHAT?! He has literally flipped scum. At what point would you have been able to trust him?! We literally shouldn't trust anything he said this game. If you were working from a town mindset, you shouldn't be thinking you could have ever trusted him now that he has flipped. Obvscum is obv.
-
@sudgy: At #3262 in your reread, you say that you don't think we can trust Ash anymore at this point. WHAT?! He has literally flipped scum. At what point would you have been able to trust him?! We literally shouldn't trust anything he said this game. If you were working from a town mindset, you shouldn't be thinking you could have ever trusted him now that he has flipped. Obvscum is obv.
That's not quite what I meant, and it was probably a bad choice of words. I meant that ash, knowing that he was caught, would start trying as hard as he could to frame others. Before that we could "trust" that he was trying to be towny and we could read him as a normal scum.
-
@sudgy: At #3262 in your reread, you say that you don't think we can trust Ash anymore at this point. WHAT?! He has literally flipped scum. At what point would you have been able to trust him?! We literally shouldn't trust anything he said this game. If you were working from a town mindset, you shouldn't be thinking you could have ever trusted him now that he has flipped. Obvscum is obv.
That's not quite what I meant, and it was probably a bad choice of words. I meant that ash, knowing that he was caught, would start trying as hard as he could to frame others. Before that we could "trust" that he was trying to be towny and we could read him as a normal scum.
Alternatively, he--being the good mafia player he is, went total WIFOM and included a partner in his list of people he was trying to frame. Without going back and looking yet, I'm willing to bet that he included you in some sort of a list of likely scum, didn't he?
-
@sudgy: At #3262 in your reread, you say that you don't think we can trust Ash anymore at this point. WHAT?! He has literally flipped scum. At what point would you have been able to trust him?! We literally shouldn't trust anything he said this game. If you were working from a town mindset, you shouldn't be thinking you could have ever trusted him now that he has flipped. Obvscum is obv.
That's not quite what I meant, and it was probably a bad choice of words. I meant that ash, knowing that he was caught, would start trying as hard as he could to frame others. Before that we could "trust" that he was trying to be towny and we could read him as a normal scum.
Alternatively, he--being the good mafia player he is, went total WIFOM and included a partner in his list of people he was trying to frame. Without going back and looking yet, I'm willing to bet that he included you in some sort of a list of likely scum, didn't he?
He could, I'm just saying anything he says at that point can't really be used to frame anybody. And, I don't know if ash mentioned me a single time anywhere this entire game.
-
Unwilling to lynch:
Awaclus, Galzria, Myself. These are pretty obvious/self explanatory at this point. WP Galz if you're scum I guess but the evidence suggests you've likely blocked a Mafia-based kill. If Awaclus is scum he got absurdly lucky by TWM being blocked/saved somehow: unlikely.
among the remaining 6 are people I have scumread at some point. (Faust, Space, LaLight) and people who I haven't really scumread but I consider mostly on the lurker end of the spectrum (Dylan, RoadRunner, Sudgy). I find it somewhat suspicious how so many people seem to have converged on something like a LaLight/Sudgy pairing but all in all I'm pretty open to any cases against all 6.
I think all in all I'd rate myself in the middle of the scumminess from an observer POV. Iguana flipping scum isn't a great look for me but besides that I think all my votes/wagons are pretty easily defensible from the O!Town perspective (which is the true perspective!).
LaLight's case on me is terrible (and I'm somewhat interested in why he's still voting for me) but I think it's somewhat more reasonable if I believe that LaLight missed the fact that I was entirely willing and committed to lynching Ashersky d4. Always possible he intentionally missed it.
If i'm going to sheep anyone (no guarantees) it'd pretty be clearly Galzria, being the probably town member whos reads I put any weight in at this point.
-
Also just noticed I put Space with 2 SK lynches...
Hey, even without the extra second SK kill, I still have the record so far for being part of the most useful (i.e. non-town) kills :-) I hadn't spotted that with my data-wrangling!
-
I'm not going to do it right now cuz sleep, but it might be good if someone would go through and list people who were on wagons on scum but then left it before the end of the day.
I should be able to write a script for that tomorrow evening, assuming the day hasn't ended.
-
Just looking over the wagon history, I'm pretty confident that there's one scum in sudgy/Dylan, and the other in LL/O.
Of those four, I guess I'm most confident on LL, though O's recent-ish posts trying to paint himself as not-that-scummy really don't impress me at all, so I'm more hesitant than I had been about it.
Vote: LL for now at least.
Really have to sleep now!
-
Vote: Space
gotta drum up that conversation.
The near-universal agreement of LaLight is super scummy and O's recent-ish posts trying to paint himself as not-that-scummy really don't impress me at all
What does that even mean? You think I should say "IM SUPER SCUMMY PLEASE LYNCH ME?" You're annoyed at my posting style? What exactly is irking you? All I see is frequent complaint about me from you that are nearly contentless and anti-town since they don't contain anything that's reasonable to respond to.
Seriously at least LaLight tries to present an argument, far more impressive than what you've done via your reads of me.
Your interactions towards me have been nothing but weird and scummy the past few days so I might aswell jump on my read. It seems likely you're trying to set up two town lynches in a row by going with the common lynch then pushing me, while leaving yourself relatively untainted.
-
Vote: Space
gotta drum up that conversation.
The near-universal agreement of LaLight is super scummy and O's recent-ish posts trying to paint himself as not-that-scummy really don't impress me at all
What does that even mean? You think I should say "IM SUPER SCUMMY PLEASE LYNCH ME?" You're annoyed at my posting style? What exactly is irking you? All I see is frequent complaint about me from you that are nearly contentless and anti-town since they don't contain anything that's reasonable to respond to.
Seriously at least LaLight tries to present an argument, far more impressive than what you've done via your reads of me.
Your interactions towards me have been nothing but weird and scummy the past few days so I might aswell jump on my read. It seems likely you're trying to set up two town lynches in a row by going with the common lynch then pushing me, while leaving yourself relatively untainted.
Why would "near universal agreement of LaLight" be scummy? If LL is scum, they only have one partner left who would probably not want to bus at the moment. So it would make sense if like all but one person thought LL was scummy.
Just looking over the wagon history, I'm pretty confident that there's one scum in sudgy/Dylan, and the other in LL/O.
Of those four, I guess I'm most confident on LL, though O's recent-ish posts trying to paint himself as not-that-scummy really don't impress me at all, so I'm more hesitant than I had been about it.
Vote: LL for now at least.
Really have to sleep now!
Frankly, I'd bet my (in game) life on a 1 for 1 against sudgy right now.
If one of LL or sudgy happen to flip town though, I would want to lynch O then faust. Not because I particularly think faust is scum at the moment, but because he would just be the next in line of suspicion there, ESPECIALLY if he wasn't the nk any of the nights before that point.
-
generally when with only small evidence almost everyone jumps on a certain person, it's more likely that scum have facilitated everyone agreeing.
-
vote: Dylan for growing scumminess
-
Why lynching me? I can't see any possible reason you suddenly decide to do that
-
generally when with only small evidence almost everyone jumps on a certain person, it's more likely that scum have facilitated everyone agreeing.
Cool, so 2 votes is "near universal agreement" now?
-
Why lynching me? I can't see any possible reason you suddenly decide to do that
Hint: It's because you're scum.
-
Why lynching me? I can't see any possible reason you suddenly decide to do that
Hint: It's because you're scum.
Hint: i'm not. But i am okay to be lynched, it's just lowering chances of townwin a bit
-
Vote Count 6.3
sudgy (2): Galzria, Dylan32
LaLight (2): faust, SpaceAnemone
SpaceAnemone (1): O
Dylan32 (1): LaLight
Not Voting (3): RoadRunner7671, Awaclus, sudgy
With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day 6 ends Saturday, June 24, at 5:00 PM.
-
Vote: sudgy
-
Dylan, LaLight and sudgy are all places I'd lynch before rereading. However, I gotta look at iguana interactions some day.
-
I don't know. Sudgy is always lurky and weird scummy, in every game he is town. I would actually bet on two scums in O, SA, Dylan, faust.
-
I don't know. Sudgy is always lurky and weird scummy, in every game he is town. I would actually bet on two scums in O, SA, Dylan, faust.
If you were asked to put together a case against Dylan, what would it look like?
How about against sudgy after all? He's the biggest wagon at present, on L-2 already, so if people don't join me in figuring you're suspicious, you might end up having to make a decision about whether to vote there in self-preservation, unless you want to put forward an entirely different case... ?
-
I've been trying to work out how strongly I think LL is scum. Here are a few other wagon states I've pulled out to look at; do any of the rest of you have feelings about how much they support/oppose the scum!LL stance?
This stuff is all from D1/D2... D3 & D4 were mostly concerned with mopping up the people whose scumminess was revealed by the claiming exercise.
D5 there aren't yet enough green names to be sure of a lot, but LL, O and sudgy were notably off-wagon for the iguana lynch. Dylan's place on the iguana wagon could be explained as a bussing scum resigned to losing a partner, though. Really, I think both of the remaining scums are playing well to stay non-obvious at this stage.
#883 (D1)
LL (1): Space
e (1): Andrew
TWM (4): JR, ash, sudgy, mcmc
ash (1): iguana
mcmc (4): gkrieg, LL, Jake, TWM
sudgy (1): faust
JR (3): Galz, e, Dylan
iguana (1): Cuzz
Awaclus (1): O
O (1): Awaclus
Andrew (2): PPS, Eevee
Not Voting (3): Calamitas, RR, Jimmmmm
#1221 (D1)
TWM (3): JR, ash, mcmc
sudgy (1): faust
O (1): Awaclus
JR (7): e, Dylan, iguana, gkrieg, LL, Jake, sudgy
mcmc (1): Space
gkrieg (1): Andrew
RR (1): Cuzz
LL (4): Galz, PPS, Eevee, O
Not Voting (4): Calamitas, RR, Jimmmmm, TWM
#2303
Cuzz (1): faust
O (1): Awaclus
Andrew (8): PPS, e, LL, Eevee, O, sudgy, Cuzz, Dylan
Dylan (3): Galz, Jake, Andrew
sudgy (1): TWM
Not Voting (9): JR, gkrieg, Calamitas, Space, RR, ash, mcmc, Jimmmmm, iguana
#2478 (D2)
Cuzz (8): faust, sudgy, PPS, Dylan, Andrew, Space, iguana, Jake
O (1): Awaclus
Dylan (1): Galz
Andrew (4): LL, Eevee, O, RR
Space (1): Cuzz
Not Voting (8): JR, gkrieg, Calamitas, ash, mcmc, Jimmmmm, TWM, e
#2483 (D2)
Cuzz (6): faust, sudgy, Dylan, Andrew, Space, iguana
O (1): Awaclus
Dylan (1): Galz
Andrew (6): LL, Eevee, O, RR, PPS, Jake
Space (1): Cuzz
Not Voting (8): JR, gkrieg, Calamitas, ash, mcmc, Jimmmmm, TWM, e
#2558 (D2)
Cuzz (5): faust, sudgy, Dylan, Andrew, Space
O (1): Awaclus
Andrew (10): LL, Eevee, O, PPS, Jake, iguana, Jimmmmm, Cuzz, Galz, mcmc
Not Voting (7): JR, gkrieg, Calamitas, ash, TWM, e, RR
-
O's recent-ish posts trying to paint himself as not-that-scummy really don't impress me at all
What does that even mean? You think I should say "IM SUPER SCUMMY PLEASE LYNCH ME?" You're annoyed at my posting style? What exactly is irking you? All I see is frequent complaint about me from you that are nearly contentless and anti-town since they don't contain anything that's reasonable to respond to.
I'm sorry if you feel I'm making it personal about targeting you. That honestly isn't the case. What I meant by my post is that your explanation for how you're "in the middle of the scumminess from an observer POV" was not impressing me or giving me confidence in your towniness. I'm not sure how much you could have contributed in just #3857 that could have led me to town-read you.
I do support your complaint that LL was misreading your stated intentions earlier in the game, and I'm voting for LL because I think there are lots of little things that point to him maybe being scum.
Your interactions towards me have been nothing but weird and scummy the past few days so I might aswell jump on my read. It seems likely you're trying to set up two town lynches in a row by going with the common lynch then pushing me, while leaving yourself relatively untainted.
I got "tainted" enough in D1/D2 by being overwhelmed in the early game, really. I'd like to think that my engineering of the claiming exercise and then my subsequent presence on more scum/SK lynch wagons than anyone else in the game (thanks for that count, Dylan!) makes most people see that I'm working for town.
I think you're referring to my two pairs of likely scums in #3860 when you're on about "two town lynches in a row". It's a fact that I just don't know for sure who the last two scums are, so I'm picking at wagons trying to link everything together, and it feels to me like one of each of those pairs gives the most likely wagon distribution. I mean, take a look at the wagon on Andrew at #2558 in my last post. From a town!O point of view, which apparently includes a town-read on Galz, then isn't it very highly likely that LL is scum, rather than there being no scum other than iguana on that whole 10-person wagon?
Lastly, you've admitted yourself that your play has been pretty much "middle of the scumminess" levels. Therefore, anyone who names four players out of a possible seven as higher-likelihood scums is probably going to pull your name up. It's really not a personal attack.
-
Iguana reread:
He votes for Galzria and Ash early on, saying they're for wagons.
He says he likes O in #511 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg693855#msg693855).
He defends RR in #522 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg693866#msg693866).
Faust takes iguana off of his lunch menu in #538 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg693882#msg693882). He defends this a few posts later in #546 saying that he's just there because faust likes him.
Iguana votes for Galzria in #1253 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg694709#msg694709).
He votes for Galzria again in #1773 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg695553#msg695553), on D2.
Way later, Galzria puts iguana in a middle section of a lynch order list in #2198 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg696188#msg696188).
Dylan puts iguana in null in #2243 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg696249#msg696249).
Iguana threatens to vote faust in #2447 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg696561#msg696561).
RR votes for him in #2637 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg697177#msg697177).
Faust rereads him in #3511 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg699186#msg699186), and says that he's been a bit scummy, but the main thing is that he's done nothing that looks like town.
LaLight says he's scummy in #3520 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg699252#msg699252).
Iguana says in #3530 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg699318#msg699318) that faust and ash could both be scum, and that Galz or Jake is probably on the team as well.
Faust makes a reads list in #3588 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg699635#msg699635), and iguana is second scummiest (with ash on the bottom).
Faust keeps saying he's scum in D5.
-
I've got to take a break again, but Vote: faust. He and scum have had way too many pointless interactions, and their reads of each other have never looked good. I think scum planned everything with faust and ash to try to make faust look townier. I'll put together a better case later.
-
We have just under 4 days till the next deadline, which is 5pm forum time on Saturday.
Who's around? Who's got VLAs coming up/in force? As far as I can see from the VLA thread, we're about to lose Dylan for a really long time (like most of D7??), but should just have regained RR?
The pace has tailed off a lot, and while I think it's pretty good to give everyone a chance to pick over wagons, re-read certain people and mull over our situation, I do think we need to start being a bit careful of the time we have.
-
We have just under 4 days till the next deadline, which is 5pm forum time on Saturday.
Who's around? Who's got VLAs coming up/in force? As far as I can see from the VLA thread, we're about to lose Dylan for a really long time (like most of D7??), but should just have regained RR?
The pace has tailed off a lot, and while I think it's pretty good to give everyone a chance to pick over wagons, re-read certain people and mull over our situation, I do think we need to start being a bit careful of the time we have.
I'll not be here on Saturday, on a plane. I don't need to be around for the lynch, but it would be nice.
-
Sudgy's iguana-read post just liked back to this reads thing by faust back in D4:
Trying to gather up all reads, town to scum.
Jimmmmm
Awaclus
Roadrunner
Dylan
Galzria (this hinges a bit on ashersky flipping scum)
Jake
Space
LaLight
O
sudgy
iguana
ashersky
-- the bottom two were spot on :-) What made you put Dylan so high up on the town part of the list, though?
-
About my VLA, it is mostly V rather than LA, so it should just be a matter of "how much time do I have to post" more so than "will I have access". So I'll be able to check in and move my vote at the very least, but activity might not be where anyone--myself very much included--would like it to be.
-
Sudgy's iguana-read post just liked back to this reads thing by faust back in D4:
Trying to gather up all reads, town to scum.
Jimmmmm
Awaclus
Roadrunner
Dylan
Galzria (this hinges a bit on ashersky flipping scum)
Jake
Space
LaLight
O
sudgy
iguana
ashersky
-- the bottom two were spot on :-) What made you put Dylan so high up on the town part of the list, though?
If I remember correctly, faust has read me correctly in most games we've been in. I could absolutely be wrong, but he had it spot on D1 in squidgirl at least.
-
'm home, but headed to bed. I'm read up and current, and I know deadline is approaching (Saturday - not like, hours from now) - so I'll try and find time tomorrow to skim through and put down some thoughts on O, LL, Space and Faust (those 4 in particular, and in order).
I also want to find the time to look at Dylan and RR more closely. RR in particular because I think he walked with town cred (I know I gave him a bunch) after the 2.7 thing... But as 2.7 flipped SK I'm not sure it actually says anything about RR's alignment.
But they're not as high a priority for me right now.
There's also some thoughts I've had while I was gone about the NK's, but I need to go back and read some stuff from 2.7.
All in all - I'll try to get through some of this tomorrow. Probably not all of it. Unless something really, really strikes me though, I don't see anybody coming up as more likely scum than Sudgy.
-
I have a secret weapon to confirm myself as town if need be, but that makes me a high NK target so I'd prefer not to.
-
I have a secret weapon to confirm myself as town if need be, but that makes me a high NK target so I'd prefer not to.
Vote: RR
Motivation needed?
-
RR, why are your posts from the last two gamedays are so hedgy and scummy?
-
-- the bottom two were spot on :-) What made you put Dylan so high up on the town part of the list, though?
I remember a reread D1 or D2 that led me to think he was town. Don't remember the details. But I haven't seen anything scummy from him since.
-
RR, why are your posts from the last two gamedays are so hedgy and scummy?
Because I plan to be scummy then later reveal my master plan?
-
RR, why are your posts from the last two gamedays are so hedgy and scummy?
Because I plan to be scummy then later reveal my master plan?
scummy Roadrunner jokes are scummy Roadrunner
-
-- the bottom two were spot on :-) What made you put Dylan so high up on the town part of the list, though?
I remember a reread D1 or D2 that led me to think he was town. Don't remember the details. But I haven't seen anything scummy from him since.
His voting pattern is really similar to sudgy's, even though sudgy's posts are rather lurkier and less helpful. I think I'm all for lynching sudgy, but this is my last niggle. If you're able to point out anything that you find particularly towny, that would be great :-)
-
RR, why are your posts from the last two gamedays are so hedgy and scummy?
Because I plan to be scummy then later reveal my master plan?
scummy Roadrunner jokes are scummy Roadrunner
Urgh :-(
-
RR, why are your posts from the last two gamedays are so hedgy and scummy?
Because I plan to be scummy then later reveal my master plan?
scummy Roadrunner jokes are scummy Roadrunner
Urgh :-(
Do you disagree? Or are you sad that's true?
-
RR, why are your posts from the last two gamedays are so hedgy and scummy?
Because I plan to be scummy then later reveal my master plan?
scummy Roadrunner jokes are scummy Roadrunner
Urgh :-(
Do you disagree? Or are you sad that's true?
Mostly I agree with Dylan and am sad that it's true.
If you're responding so quickly to things, how about you do some reading and cases and stuff while you're actually around?
(Bed time for anemones now... somehow it's almost 0130 here already!)
-
To be clear, I wasn't actually meaning that as any sort of insult to your play RR. Just saying that it is definitely you back from your VLA and not someone posing as you. I agree with Space that it would be nice if you would chip in some stuff. You did kind of get a pass when e flipped SK, but that doesn't really give you as much towncred as it takes away the scum points you would have got with any other flip there. Sooooo, if you could prove you are town, that'd be great
-
To be clear, I wasn't actually meaning that as any sort of insult to your play RR. Just saying that it is definitely you back from your VLA and not someone posing as you. I agree with Space that it would be nice if you would chip in some stuff. You did kind of get a pass when e flipped SK, but that doesn't really give you as much towncred as it takes away the scum points you would have got with any other flip there. Sooooo, if you could prove you are town, that'd be great
No, I wasn't insulted at all. And I'm gonna get right on my iguana!interactions thing right now.
-
I reread iguana's play the day he was lynched and the day ashersky was lynched. I got towny vibes from Galzaria and SA. Also faust a little bit.
-
Dylan32
O
LaLight
sudgy
There's the pool. Preferences are sudgy > Lalight >>>> Dylan >>>>> O
-
Yo dude, you want to put some meat on those opinions? Like, that was literally the safest pool and the least info you could have possibly given.
-
Yo dude, you want to put some meat on those opinions? Like, that was literally the safest pool and the least info you could have possibly given.
Safest pool? I think it's the best pool, I'm not really worried about what people think about it. That's just what I think.
-
I was wondering, in my rereads, I've seen lots of people saying they had a scumread on faust (O in particular). Do any of you still have that scumread?
-
i'd put him in the upper half of scumreads, but iguana flipping scum made me less confident.
-
Here's my post summarizing all claims. I've found this useful. I'll post my case on faust tomorrow. I summarize everything at the end.
Day 1:
I didn't even look this one over. However, PPS does basically claim restless sheeper in #1446 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg694934#msg694934) by sheeping Galzria.
Day 2:
Faust, in #1503 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg695157#msg695157) faust says he has something he "may or may not want to talk about."
Then, in #1509 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg695164#msg695164), TWM says Awaclus is likely town.
In #1539 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg695201#msg695201), O has a "softclaim" about Cuzz being town. This is interesting since he's since claimed VT. However, this is O, so it's probably nothing. He does it again in #1550 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg695215#msg695215), with RR.
So, this isn't a claim, but in #1801 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg695595#msg695595) e says that RR is town. I'm not certain, but he could have used his bus driver on Awaclus and RR and knows that TWM had some type of investigative role. Just a thought.
Mcmc starts talking about claiming in #1855 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg695685#msg695685), with the full claim coming in #1863 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg695694#msg695694).
TWM claims in #1890 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg695722#msg695722), and he hid behind Awaclus.
PPS actually claims in #2043 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg695913#msg695913).
Galzria softclaims that he has a town utility in #2119 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg696076#msg696076).
PPS ends Day 2 sheeping TWM.
Day 3:
Galzria claims Jailkeeper in #2669 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg697223#msg697223), with draft position 20 and taking slot 11. Says that N1 he jailed faust, and N2 he jailed ash.
Faust claims 2-shot vig soon after in #2678 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg697233#msg697233), with draft position 1.
I forgot to mention that TWM didn't hide.
Alright, massclaim time. I'll compile everything at the end of this post though so I'll put all of this there.
Faust says in #2923 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg697620#msg697620) that he shot sudgy N1.
Ash says he has "a counterclaim thing of sorts" in #3041 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg697818#msg697818).
e claims all his stuff and gets lynched.
PPS dies sheeping TWM, who also died.
Day 4:
Ash fully claims in #3409 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg698953#msg698953).
Galzria claims to have jailed one of ash, mcmc, or his highest scumread in #3418 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg698965#msg698965), then claims to have jailed ash in #3472 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg699074#msg699074).
Nothing Day 5.
Day 6:
Galzria claims to have jailed Awaclus (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg701468#msg701468).
Final list of claims and actions (in alphabetical order):
2.71828.....: #6, 1-Shot Bus-Driver SK (slot 13). [First claimed #19, VT (went for slot 13), then to #6, Convert SK to Survivor (slot 13, other roles were Bus Driver and Alignment Cop)].
Andrew: #?, VT (unknown slot).
ash: #?, Mafia Goon (unknown slot). [First claimed #12, Role Cop (slot 4). Investigated faust N1 and N2, and I think N3, with no result.]
Awaclus: #10, VT
Calamitas: #?, Mafia goon (unknown slot).
Cuzz: #?, VT (unknown slot).
Dylan: #8, VT (went for slot 13).
Eevee: #9, VT->Masonic Lover (went for slot 6).
faust: #1, 2-Shot Vig (slot 1). Shot sudgy N1 (but failed, presumably due to Galzria), shot Cuzz N2, shot PPS N3.
Galzria: #20, Jailkeeper (slot 11). Jailed faust N1, jailed ash N2, jailed ash N3, jailed ??? N4, jailed Awaclus N5.
gkrieg: #?, VT (unknown slot).
iguana: #?, Mafia Goon (unknown slot). [First claimed #11, VT (went for slot 13).]
Jake: #17, Tracker (slot 12, other role was 1-Shot Commuter). Tracked gkrieg N1 (no result), tracked ash N2 and N3 (no result both times, presumably due to Galzria).
Jimmmmm: #3, Masonic Lover (slot 6).
J-Reggie: #14, VT (unknown slot).
LaLight: #5, VT (went for slot 1).
Mcmc: #? Hammer Hero (slot 9). Got first two hammers and presumably did death immunity.
O: #21, VT
PPS: #15, Restless Sheeper (slot 2).
RR: #19, VT (went slot 13).
Space: #18, VT (went for slot 12).
sudgy: #7, VT (went for slot 6).
TWM: #? Hider (slot 10). hid behind Awaclus N1, hid behind nobody N2, probably hid behind iguana (small chance of Space or someone else) N3.
-
2.71828.....: #6, 1-Shot Bus-Driver SK (slot 13). [First claimed #19, VT (went for slot 13), then to #6, Convert SK to Survivor (slot 13, other roles were Bus Driver and Alignment Cop)].
Andrew: #?, VT (unknown slot).
ash: #?, Mafia Goon (unknown slot). [First claimed #12, Role Cop (slot 4). Investigated faust N1 and N2, and I think N3, with no result.]
Awaclus: #10, VT
Calamitas: #?, Mafia goon (unknown slot).
Cuzz: #?, VT (unknown slot).
Dylan: #8, VT (went for slot 13).
Eevee: #9, VT->Masonic Lover (went for slot 6).
faust: #1, 2-Shot Vig (slot 1). Shot sudgy N1 (but failed, presumably due to Galzria), shot Cuzz N2, shot PPS N3.
Galzria: #20, Jailkeeper (slot 11). Jailed faust N1, jailed ash N2, jailed ash N3, jailed ??? N4, jailed Awaclus N5.
gkrieg: #?, VT (unknown slot).
iguana: #?, Mafia Goon (unknown slot). [First claimed #11, VT (went for slot 13).]
Jake: #17, Tracker (slot 12, other role was 1-Shot Commuter). Tracked gkrieg N1 (no result), tracked ash N2 and N3 (no result both times, presumably due to Galzria).
Jimmmmm: #3, Masonic Lover (slot 6).
J-Reggie: #14, VT (unknown slot).
LaLight: #5, VT (went for slot 1).
Mcmc: #? Hammer Hero (slot 9). Got first two hammers and presumably did death immunity.
O: #21, VT
PPS: #15, Restless Sheeper (slot 2).
RR: #19, VT (went slot 13).
Space: #18, VT (went for slot 12).
sudgy: #7, VT (went for slot 6).
TWM: #? Hider (slot 10). hid behind Awaclus N1, hid behind nobody N2, probably hid behind iguana (small chance of Space or someone else) N3.
I think it's pretty safe to color me green in a list like this.
-
I think it's pretty safe to color me green in a list like this.
Oh, but then sudgy's attempt to frame you would be pointless:
So, this isn't a claim, but in #1801 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg695595#msg695595) e says that RR is town. I'm not certain, but he could have used his bus driver on Awaclus and RR and knows that TWM had some type of investigative role. Just a thought.
-
A little different look at vote analysis - this has nothing to do with wagons, but is simply a history of how votes were cast:
O:
Day 1: Galzria (#158), LaLight (#270), RR (#358), Awaclus (#676/#678), LaLight (#1221), Awaclus (#1345)
Day 2: Faust (#1539), Space (#1600), Faust (#1931), Ashersky (#2151), Andrew (#2286), Faust (#2445), Andrew (#2477)
Day 3: Faust (#2664), Ashersky (#2721)
Day 4: Ashersky (#3412)
Day 5: Space (#3612), Faust (#3684), Space (#3691)
Day 6: Space (#3861)
Thoughts: Wow. With the exception of the two Andrew votes (#2286 & #2477), every vote you've cast since the game began has either been for now-confirmed-dead scum (Ash, #2151, #2721, #3412), or still alive players. And the two Andrew votes were clearly sarcasticly cast at the whim of MCMC d2 ("largest wagon that our lord and savior approves of" & "baaaaaa baaaaaaa") and not actually your own reads.
I actually don't know what to make of this. My gut says scummy, but my brain just doesn't understand how you could have at no point, voted for now-confirmed-dead town given how many of them there are. Like... obviously you have cast SOME votes against town this game as [Awaclus, Faust, Space, Galzria, LaLight, RR] can't all be scum - but somehow through d6 your demonstrative vote history (minus Andrew, which again I don't count as they were not true votes based on your reads) has remained 100% immaculate and pristine.
Blergh. So weird.
----------
Gonna try to do LL here next here before I need to go do work stuffs for the rest of the day. I'll actually be on later tonight though (planned on it last night but my old staff wanted to go out drinking and celebrating so I did that instead).
-
Yo dude, you want to put some meat on those opinions? Like, that was literally the safest pool and the least info you could have possibly given.
Safest pool? I think it's the best pool, I'm not really worried about what people think about it. That's just what I think.
That's fair. I was just hoping you'd come in and prove you were town, and instead you went along with the conclusion basically everyone else has come to without providing any of your reasoning for it. I still want you to explain some of the why's and what's of your reread that got you to that pool.
In sudgy's summary, Awaclus and O don't have which slot they bid for filled in. Did you guys claim that, or was it just missed?
PPE 1
-
Same as for O, but this time for LaLight:
LaLight:
Day 1: Space (#142), PPS (#146), MCMC (#174), Ashersky (#243), MCMC (#731), Awaclus (#884), MCMC (#976), JReggie (#1155)
Day 2: RR (#2015), Andrew (#2090)
Day 3: Galzria (#2692), Jimmmm (#2892), 2.7 (#3023), Ashersky (#3295), 2.7 (#3321)
Day 4: Sudgy (#3390), Ashersky (#3397)
Day 5: Space (#3646)
Day 6: O (#3820), Dylan (#3864)
Thoughts: Well, I'll admit this voting pattern LOOKS a lot more natural to me than O's does.
I'm interested in looking at pair narratives as I go through these (although they'll likely be in a different set of posts) - but for example, if I were to look at the pair [O, LL] as the last two scum you would see that O only voted once for LL back early on d1, and then only ever bussed Ash afterwards. He never voted Calamatis or Iguana. LL would have voted Ashersky early, and would be pushing an O bus now - but also never voted for Calamatis or Iguana ((Note the Calamatis thing is weak for all pairs as he pretty much didn't play d1 and was dead that night)). Anyway - that's all for another set of posts.
The biggest takeaway I have from LaLight that makes me gut read him as townier than scummier is his play at the end of d3 with 2.7. He was online, he was active, and while he facilitated the L-1 vote that allowed 2.7 to steal the hammer from MCMC, it was at mcmc's request that he cast it - he could have (and as scum would have wanted) to try and steal the hammer himself. Making himself known and voting with/when mcmc when instructed gives him town points in my book. His response also reads townie - but I'll admit both scum and town could react that way.
-
I'll do Space and faust tonight.
Can somebody do me a favor (if it hasn't been done - I may have missed it) and run through and do this for Ashersky and Iguana (I'm pretty sure Calamatis never even cast a vote)? I want to see the reciprocal on vote histories from a confirmed scum PoV.
Thanks!
-
A little different look at vote analysis - this has nothing to do with wagons, but is simply a history of how votes were cast:
O:
Day 1: Galzria (#158), LaLight (#270), RR (#358), Awaclus (#676/#678), LaLight (#1221), Awaclus (#1345)
Day 2: Faust (#1539), Space (#1600), Faust (#1931), Ashersky (#2151), Andrew (#2286), Faust (#2445), Andrew (#2477)
Day 3: Faust (#2664), Ashersky (#2721)
Day 4: Ashersky (#3412)
Day 5: Space (#3612), Faust (#3684), Space (#3691)
Day 6: Space (#3861)
Thoughts: Wow. With the exception of the two Andrew votes (#2286 & #2477), every vote you've cast since the game began has either been for now-confirmed-dead scum (Ash, #2151, #2721, #3412), or still alive players. And the two Andrew votes were clearly sarcasticly cast at the whim of MCMC d2 ("largest wagon that our lord and savior approves of" & "baaaaaa baaaaaaa") and not actually your own reads.
I actually don't know what to make of this. My gut says scummy, but my brain just doesn't understand how you could have at no point, voted for now-confirmed-dead town given how many of them there are. Like... obviously you have cast SOME votes against town this game as [Awaclus, Faust, Space, Galzria, LaLight, RR] can't all be scum - but somehow through d6 your demonstrative vote history (minus Andrew, which again I don't count as they were not true votes based on your reads) has remained 100% immaculate and pristine.
Blergh. So weird.
----------
Gonna try to do LL here next here before I need to go do work stuffs for the rest of the day. I'll actually be on later tonight though (planned on it last night but my old staff wanted to go out drinking and celebrating so I did that instead).
Small points:
1. "Sarcastic" is a weird phrase for my D2 votes. It was more like "I really think Cuzz is town and I'll definitely sheep MCMC over lynching cuzz". But I agree I didn't scumread Andrew.
It is weird, but as you hinted at the more correct phrasing is "the people O voted for are still alive for some reason" than "O hasn't voted for town members". Because the only confirmed scum I've voted for is Ashersky (though I was definitely willing to vote e, it just wasn't necessary)... and it's a bit odd when the sample size is 2 to discard the Andrew vote..
I find this interesting because I've been voting Faust too many times with respect to how scummy I've found him throughout the day. Though I guess some of those were kinda just prods.
-
Yo dude, you want to put some meat on those opinions? Like, that was literally the safest pool and the least info you could have possibly given.
Safest pool? I think it's the best pool, I'm not really worried about what people think about it. That's just what I think.
That's fair. I was just hoping you'd come in and prove you were town, and instead you went along with the conclusion basically everyone else has come to without providing any of your reasoning for it. I still want you to explain some of the why's and what's of your reread that got you to that pool.
In sudgy's summary, Awaclus and O don't have which slot they bid for filled in. Did you guys claim that, or was it just missed?
PPE 1
I don't remember if I claimed that without checking, but I probably did. I bid for IC fwiw.
-
I'll do Space and faust tonight.
Can somebody do me a favor (if it hasn't been done - I may have missed it) and run through and do this for Ashersky and Iguana (I'm pretty sure Calamatis never even cast a vote)? I want to see the reciprocal on vote histories from a confirmed scum PoV.
Thanks!
That's a neat format :-)
I should be able to tweak my code to give me a forum-printable vote history for everyone with very little work... just give me a few mins!
-
Here's all the game voting history that I've auto-captured, put into the person-wise format suggested by Galz (though mine also counts unvotes as "Not Voting" because it was easier just to leave that behaviour in than to take it out). Please let me know if you find any inaccuracies!
Voting history for JR
Day 1: PPS (#146), TWM (#337), Galz (#1296)
Voting history for Galz
Day 1: JR (#571), Not Voting (#1140), LL (#1207)
Day 2: Dylan (#1755), Andrew (#2557), Not Voting (#2568)
Day 3: ash (#2794), Not Voting (#3085), e (#3119)
Day 4: Not Voting (#3555)
Day 6: sudgy (#3783)
Voting history for gkrieg
Day 1: PPS (#206), mcmc (#489), JR (#1015)
Voting history for TWM
Day 1: PPS (#235), LL (#272), mcmc (#316), sudgy (#570), mcmc (#644), Awaclus (#692), mcmc (#782), JR (#886), Not Voting (#1052), Awaclus (#1343), JR (#1396)
Day 2: Jimmmmm (#1534), sudgy (#1703), Not Voting (#2021), sudgy (#2241), e (#2385), Not Voting (#2407)
Day 3: e (#2620), TWM (#2655), Not Voting (#2658), e (#2853), sudgy (#2932), e (#3014), ash (#3233), Not Voting (#3243), ash (#3269), e (#3272)
Voting history for Calamitas
Voting history for Eevee
Day 1: Cuzz (#245), Andrew (#849), JR (#902), Not Voting (#1018), Andrew (#1019), sudgy (#1120), LL (#1219), Not Voting (#1274), Awaclus (#1390)
Day 2: Space (#1650), Andrew (#2125)
Voting history for faust
Day 1: JR (#513), sudgy (#548), Galz (#1386)
Day 2: Cuzz (#1507)
Day 3: Galz (#2678), Jimmmmm (#2887), sudgy (#2911), e (#3116), ash (#3256)
Day 4: ash (#3374), ash (#3426)
Day 5: iguana (#3606)
Day 6: sudgy (#3797), Not Voting (#3802), LL (#3819)
Voting history for LL
Day 1: Space (#142), mcmc (#174), ash (#243), mcmc (#731), Awaclus (#884), mcmc (#976), JR (#1155)
Day 2: Space (#1583), RR (#2015), Andrew (#2090)
Day 3: Galz (#2692), Not Voting (#2728), Jimmmmm (#2892), e (#3023), ash (#3295), e (#3321)
Day 4: sudgy (#3390), ash (#3397)
Day 5: Space (#3646)
Day 6: O (#3820), Dylan (#3864)
Voting history for Awaclus
Day 1: e (#461), O (#698)
Day 2: O (#1545)
Day 5: O (#3682), iguana (#3768)
Day 6: sudgy (#3870)
Voting history for Space
Day 1: LL (#144), mcmc (#974), JR (#1382)
Day 2: Cuzz (#2432)
Day 3: e (#3315)
Day 4: iguana (#3475), ash (#3549)
Day 5: iguana (#3617)
Day 6: LL (#3860)
Voting history for e
Day 1: LL (#171), mcmc (#173), TWM (#706), JR (#876)
Day 2: Andrew (#1636), Not Voting (#2451)
Day 3: iguana (#2624), ash (#2770), RR (#3231), ash (#3271), e (#3276), ash (#3277), e (#3322)
Voting history for PPS
Day 1: Andrew (#808), LL (#1211)
Day 2: Andrew (#1557), Andrew (#1956), Cuzz (#2406), Andrew (#2482)
Day 3: Jimmmmm (#2890), Not Voting (#2902), e (#3118)
Voting history for Dylan
Day 1: Jake (#292), TWM (#436), JR (#883)
Day 2: Space (#1765), sudgy (#2054), Andrew (#2303), Not Voting (#2305), sudgy (#2359), Cuzz (#2422)
Day 3: sudgy (#2915)
Day 5: iguana (#3747)
Day 6: sudgy (#3793)
Voting history for RR
Day 1: mcmc (#1298)
Day 2: Andrew (#2478), Not Voting (#2486), Andrew (#2522), Not Voting (#2528)
Day 3: iguana (#2637), Jimmmmm (#2894), Not Voting (#2939), e (#3005)
Day 5: iguana (#3740)
Voting history for iguana
Day 1: Galz (#297), ash (#429), JR (#991), Galz (#1253), JR (#1319)
Day 2: Galz (#1773), Not Voting (#2078), Cuzz (#2446), Andrew (#2484)
Day 4: Space (#3434), ash (#3569)
Day 5: Space (#3620), iguana (#3773)
Voting history for Jimmmmm
Day 2: mcmc (#1520), Not Voting (#2047), Andrew (#2537), Not Voting (#2566)
Day 3: e (#3307), Not Voting (#3311), e (#3319), Not Voting (#3325)
Voting history for O
Day 1: Not Voting (#260), RR (#358), Awaclus (#678), LL (#1221), Not Voting (#1256), Awaclus (#1345)
Day 2: faust (#1539), Space (#1600), faust (#1931), ash (#2151), Andrew (#2286), faust (#2445), Andrew (#2477), Not Voting (#2567)
Day 3: faust (#2664), Not Voting (#2668), ash (#2721)
Day 4: ash (#3412), Not Voting (#3473)
Day 5: Space (#3612), faust (#3684), Space (#3691)
Day 6: Space (#3861)
Voting history for Andrew
Day 1: e (#186), gkrieg (#1035)
Day 2: Cuzz (#1554), Not Voting (#1569), Cuzz (#1575), Dylan (#2295), Cuzz (#2427)
Voting history for Cuzz
Day 1: mcmc (#163), O (#182), O (#187), O (#196), Not Voting (#214), gkrieg (#220), ash (#231), RR (#362), iguana (#641), RR (#1070)
Day 2: Andrew (#1555), ash (#2187), Andrew (#2299), Not Voting (#2357), Space (#2419), iguana (#2501), Andrew (#2547)
Voting history for ash
Day 1: Galz (#157), TWM (#343)
Day 4: faust (#3409), ash (#3591)
Voting history for Jake
Day 1: LL (#239), JR (#332), mcmc (#741), JR (#1168)
Day 2: mcmc (#1514), Not Voting (#1707), Dylan (#2265), Cuzz (#2454), Andrew (#2483)
Day 3: Jimmmmm (#2893), RR (#3066), ash (#3266)
Day 4: LL (#3405), ash (#3445)
Voting history for mcmc
Day 1: Galz (#160), gkrieg (#241), Not Voting (#311), TWM (#370), O (#640), TWM (#713), Not Voting (#1294), JR (#1400)
Day 2: Andrew (#2558), Not Voting (#2569)
Day 3: e (#3323)
Voting history for sudgy
Day 1: TWM (#508), JR (#979), TWM (#1055), JR (#1186)
Day 2: TWM (#1584), Not Voting (#1950), Andrew (#2287), Cuzz (#2405)
Day 3: ash (#2795), e (#3244)
Day 4: ash (#3441)
Day 5: Space (#3765)
-
But Space...what do all the numbers mean?
-
But Space...what do all the numbers mean?
Post numbers.
-
Faust, we've played before, right? Don't you remember that everybody always thinks I'm scummy and I always get mislynched?
-
Unfortunately, some things that work out quite mysteriously in timing make me think the LaLight bit of ash's speech may have been genuine.
I was just wondering, can you say what this is?
-
Also, we're getting really close to deadline. Let's play more, people!
-
Alright, here's my faust case. Day 1 isn't too strong, but it gets stronger and stronger as it goes on.
Day 1:
faust, iguana, and ash all mentioned each other a lot. Most of them weren't even partner tells, but it just seems unnatural how many times they mention each other. Here's a list of posts: #346 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg693672#msg693672), #490 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg693834#msg693834), #498 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg693842#msg693842), #524 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg693868#msg693868), #525 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg693869#msg693869), #545 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg693889#msg693889), #549 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg693894#msg693894), #914 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg694310#msg694310), #1093 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg694519#msg694519), #1095 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg694521#msg694521), #1129 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg694569#msg694569) (this one is particularly pointless), #1234 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg694686#msg694686) (this one too).
People off today's lynch menu so far:
TWM
LaLight
RR
iguana
Will try to keep this list updated through D1. I probably won't bother to take anyone off given the size of this game.
Iguana is on faust's townreads early on. And this is his reason:
That was meant to be why are they there?
I feel it. There's no hard reasoning, but we only have 7 days and these people came out as the most townie. Plus iguana, who's just there because I like him.
He doesn't even say iguana's towny. This whole thing feels superficial to me.
I think I want to take ash out of the lynch pool too. Well, put this as onging consideration.
Soon afterwards, he takes ash out. Or maybe not. Oh crap I'm saying my scumpartners are towny too much, I can't just put ash on there...
Later though, he does have both iguana and ash on his lynch pool removals:
Update on lynch pool removals:
RR
LaLight
TWM
iguana
O
mcmc
Andrew
ash
Scums are, in no particular order:
sudgy
J Reggie
pps
Dylan
Eevee
Interestingly, his scums are confirmed town or still alive. I've noticed this in later days too, so I'll probably mention it more later.
He ends the day going after mcmc hardcore for hammering, saying he was the scum hammer hero. Scumread on confirmed town.
Then, in the night, the scum warned each other not to mention each other so much, and got faust to switch his fake read on mcmc.
Day 2:
Hi! I'm still alive.
Calamitas looks like an SK shot? It's definitely more likely that there is one now. Or Werewolves I suppose.
There is something I may or may not want to talk about.
I thought you had thought mcmc was scum hammer hero? That sounds like a very likely explanation for another kill, given your stance at the end of D1. Maybe you knew mcmc wasn't scum so you actually did realize this means there's an SK?
Also I think mcmc is town.
Very quick turnaround.
wow, the night was quite cool. But I really do wonder what stays behing both kills, they are quite weird
Why do you think the gkrieg kill is weird? It seems pretty standard to me.
Not that much of evidence, but mafia wouldn't think the kill is weird.
I'm not a fan of the way Eevee abandoned the J Reggie wagon. Scum would definitely want the Reggie wagon to die after the claim.
Another scumread on confirmed town. And, I forgot to get the quote, but he did it with Cuzz too at some point.
Admittedly I kinda want this plan to not work because I don't want this game to be broken.
This is a very scummy reaction to the plan.
The leading wagons are both utter nonsense.
Here's a list of people we should lynch:
Cuzz
Cuzz
Cuzz
sudgy
Eevee
pps
Confirmed town, confirmed town to me, confirmed town, and confirmed town. Hmmm...
...
This what Town PR, non RMM, PPS looks like. Plus I've been town for like 8 games in a row, it's starting to affect me in a way I don't play like scum to protect my scum game.
Hmm, I forgot about your sheeper stuff. That probably means we should not lynch you.
(Says the guy who killed PPS later on)
[Cuzz case]
Case on confirmed town.
Day 3:
Here's a random idea we should be cautious of: If faust is scum, he could have shot Cuzz with his normal shot and saved his vig shot. There's still a chance that scum!faust still has his shot left, which could be devestating for us.
So, day 3 actually isn't too bad for faust. However, there is this:
I have a counterclaim thing of sorts, if folks want to kill the massclaim now. Plenty of info already.
What do you mean? You can counterclaim someone? I suppose that's good.
To me, this feels like "Hey scumbuddy, you have a plan? I'm interested in what you're going to say..." Might be confirmation bias at this point, but it still just feels wrong.
Yes you claim. YOu're not going to weasel yourself out of the massclaim. Vote: ashersky
You are the last (or second-to-last) person who I will listen to, given what I know.
Ash has a plan. Ultimate bussing. Ashersky tries to get lynched with a 1v1 with faust, which gives faust tons of townpoints. Scum knows that TWM might hide behind iguana, so scum will have to bus him at some point anyway, so faust decides to bus iguana too. Faust can then coast his way to victory, possibly using his extra vig shot to get the win before lylo.
Day 4:
I'm looking forward to ashersky's solid evidence about Werewolves ::)
Vote: ashersky
The plan begins.
Also, I think another thing is that they decided to try to pound faust's towniness on us by repeatedly saying, "How in the world could faust not be the vig?"
...Faust joined him, faked Vig.
And here ashersky starts the ball rolling by claiming that faust is not the vig.
N1 AND N2 I investigated faust. I received No Result both times. After the way D2 progressed, it became clear to me that he won his claimed slot but bid on investigation immune. Given his propensity for being everyone's favorite night target -- I copped him, after all -- this makes perfect sense.
This is bullshit. You can read the setup discussion thread for this game. I implicitly agreed with you that mafia should take 2-shot vig over Investigation Immune.
Also I'm curious how you explain the deaths tonight if I'm no vig. (Spoilers: I shot PPS)
And here's faust, right on cue.
The fact that faust has not even considered that fact means he's not really the Vig.
And here's ash, doing it again.
I am confused, ash - am I or am I not the vig?
And what on earth were you thinking with the Werewolf thing?
These are the questions you don't have answers to.
Hey everybody, think of what's logical: I'm the vig!
I will just point out, specifically, the questions left unanswered:
- How are there 3 deaths tonight if I am no vig?
...
And again.
No third death can happen without me being the vig ::)
...And again.
Rereading iguana:
...
Some scummy things, but mostly I just don't find any solid evidence that would put iguana in the town camp.
Now he's preparing fo the other bus.
Well I am a town, so obviously it sucks that anyone would reread and find me scummy. It seems like the case against me is mainly that I haven't committed really hard to playing and well I don't regret that at all - It afforded me the luxury to have a life outside this game.
As for Faust / Ash, I think they are both scum. The whole thing stinks of a gambit to me. And again probably one of Galz or Jake is on the team too.
Iguana knows he's dead so might as well try to get as much distance as possible from his scumpartners.
Not to mention that Space/iguana has no chance of lynching a town PR at all, and a decent chance of lynching a scum PR. Lynching me has zero chance of lynching a scum PR (even if you believe I'm scum).
Faust keeps suggesting that he can't possibly be a scum vig.
I am around. I am trying to get psyched on how I am the De Fausto mislynch tomorrow but it is not easy.
Setting up his partner's bus tomorrow?
Trying to gather up all reads, town to scum.
Jimmmmm
Awaclus
Roadrunner
Dylan
Galzria (this hinges a bit on ashersky flipping scum)
Jake
Space
LaLight
O
sudgy
iguana
ashersky
Ah, the two scum to bus and then the person to set up for a mislynch. The perfect scum reads.
Day 5:
I mean, we should lynch iguana today anyway. Vote: iguana
And now the plan continues.
Vote: Space
Seems Faust is scum too.
Still trying to distance each other even further.
We should break down the whole "faust is scum" theory as it doesn't make sense on any level.
- it has been pretty clear from D1 that I would eventually claim vig. Scum doesn't even want this because claiming it requires them to shoot "reasonable" targets, but what they actually want is to take out the towniest/strongest players. We know from the massclaim that scum very likely hid some of their PRs. Why wouldn't they do they same with their strongest one?
First, you shot targets that I think were fine for both town and scum. You had already claimed before the massclaim so it was too late.
- I shot the first chance I got. This is clear. This is again not something scum wants. Later it becomes much clearer which players need taking out. Scum wouldn't shoot the vig in N1/N2.
Maybe you didn't shoot right away? You could have just claimed to have tried to shoot when you didn't, and N2 there's explanations of NKs that don't involve you.
- with a team this size, I would always absolutely try to sacrifice someone early for towncred. I have previously gone on record stating that I like this sort of play, and I have won a game where I bussed a partner to death D1. I would never choose to only go after town.
Maybe you did it in the last few days?
- I would never agree to a play like the one ash did here as scum. ash likes to do weird claims just for the heck of it, but of course this would eventually break down. Had I been ash's partner, I would at the very least have pointed out the gaping holes and logical errors in his fakeclaim. For evidence on this, you can check the post-game discussion of that game where ash and gkrieg fakeclaimed Masons.
His whole claim was a plan to get lynched. I think it's a perfectly valid scum plan.
- ash specifically tried to frame Galz/me as Werewolves prior to e's flip. I think he truly believed that to some extent, and that is why he claimed. Of course this cannot be if I'm actually his partner.
I think that's false.
- PPS was the single worst town death possible for scum. Literally any other townie dying would have been better for them. As scum, wouldn't I have tried my best to be able to shoot someone else? I had other scumreads that I could reasonably have shot.
Towncred, you knew TWM was dying and didn't want to worry about his PR, and maybe more reasons.
- On N2, Galz blocked ash, leading to one less death than expected. If the scum kill has been blocked at that stage, I could simply have claimed that I did not shoot, explaining away the missing kill and preventing ashersky going down.
Or you could not shoot, claimed to have shot, and kept the shot for later.
tl;dr:
- Faust had an unnaturally high number of interactions with ash and iguana
- Faust goes after mcmc as scum at the end of D1 then the next day shows that he hasn't even considered that as a possibility
- Faust consistently scumread mostly confirmed townies and never confirmed scum for the first couple days
- His vig choices were pretty bad (but are excusable)
- The whole faust/ash and faust/iguana situations can easily be scum gambits, and when you look at it with that light it makes everything make sense
Also, I mention in my long version that it is possible that faust still has a shot left. That's important too.
I haven't proofread this, so sorry if there's any mistakes.
-
This is an unusually convincing case. Given that I don't want to lynch sudgy, vote: faust
-
I will be here up to 2ish hours to the deadline. It's 2am my time, depends on when I will go to sleep
-
Yeah that case was unusually convincing. You've given me much to think about in our limited amount of time. Vote: Faust for now and I'll see what happens by morning.
-
We're still like... 39 hours to deadline though, yeah? Not crazy close.
-
We're still like... 39 hours to deadline though, yeah? Not crazy close.
Well, tomorrow is my last day to be here, so I'm feeling a tiny bit rushed. And I don't want the end of the day to be rushed.
-
So I hadn't even actually considered Sudgy's take on NK's. That's certainly an interesting thought. To make sure I'm not missing it:
N1:
- Calamitas is shot by SK
- Gkrieg is shot by Mafia
- Vig kills nobody (He was jailed anyway, so even if he shot he couldn't kill)
N2:
- Cuzz is shot by Mafia
- Eevee is shot by SK
- Vig kills nobody (by choice this time)
N3:
- Mcmc is killed by Mafia
- PPS is killed by Vig
- TWM is killed by hiding
N4:
- Jake is killed by Mafia
- Vig kills nobody
N5:
- Jimmm is killed by Mafia
- Vig kills nobody
This would leave scum Vig with a shot still. Huh.
--------------------
My previously alluded to thoughts had to do with claims 2.7 might have made about who he might have shot.
N1: I think the results from are clear regardless of anybody's alignment.
N2: There was missing a kill, and faust claimed to have shot Cuzz. Some have speculated that if there's no Strongman, then I blocked Ash from shooting. I still feel that the kill pattern suggests Strongman, but when somebody mentioned that 2.7 had killed Eevee, I was definitely beginning to have doubt. However I've looked back and 2.7 never claimed that - so my initial belief that I blocked 2.7 from shooting Ashersky holds up.
But what crossed my mind while I was V/LA was another thought entirely. What if one of the Mafia/2.7 took a shot at mcmc that night? His claim had completely ruined their game, and while he insisted that he might choose to shoot in the future (instead of taking bullet-proof), he was adamant that he would be bullet-proof that night to collaborate all the claims. If he was stated to 100% take bullet-proof that night, what better time to sneak in a shot after taking the hammer? Yeah, it's a bunch of WIFOM - but I imagine scum were scrambling at that point and absolutely might have taken a shot at him just on the off chance it succeeded.
Anyway, that's neither here nor there when it comes to catching scum today. It just struck me while reading back while I was gone and since we still haven't figured out where the missing kill went I thought I would share it.
Now back to your regularly scheduled programming. Gonna go look over Space and faust voting patterns.
-
Let me just respond to some things:
faust, iguana, and ash all mentioned each other a lot.
I am the player with the highest post count (or was in the last post count made). It's not particularly surprising that I mention people more than the average player. Maybe you can show that I mentioned ash/iguana more than I mention other players, but I doubt it. Being active also means I'm more likely mentioned by others.
He ends the day going after mcmc hardcore for hammering, saying he was the scum hammer hero. Scumread on confirmed town.
Wrong. I said:
Well clearly scum!mcmc wouldn't hammer town!J Reggie D1 at this point, because man does that look scummy.
on D1. I assumed Reggie flips scum. Clearly it doesn't make a lot of sense for sucm to push a read they know will be inconsequential.
I thought you had thought mcmc was scum hammer hero? That sounds like a very likely explanation for another kill, given your stance at the end of D1. Maybe you knew mcmc wasn't scum so you actually did realize this means there's an SK?
Explained above.
This is a very scummy reaction to the plan.
No it's not.
Hmm, I forgot about your sheeper stuff. That probably means we should not lynch you.
(Says the guy who killed PPS later on)
I mentioned the reasoning for killing PPS before I actually killed him.
To me, this feels like "Hey scumbuddy, you have a plan? I'm interested in what you're going to say..." Might be confirmation bias at this point, but it still just feels wrong.
Don't think that as scum I would already have known what the plan was?
Ash has a plan. Ultimate bussing. Ashersky tries to get lynched with a 1v1 with faust, which gives faust tons of townpoints. Scum knows that TWM might hide behind iguana, so scum will have to bus him at some point anyway, so faust decides to bus iguana too. Faust can then coast his way to victory, possibly using his extra vig shot to get the win before lylo.
That's bullshit. Noone would ever give me towncred for bussing ash. ash could have picked basically any other scum to bus him for better results. It doesn't take a genius to realize that any game situation involving ash and me will come under high scrutiny.
First, you shot targets that I think were fine for both town and scum. You had already claimed before the massclaim so it was too late.
Yes I already claimed. Why in the world would scum!me have already claimed?
Maybe you didn't shoot right away? You could have just claimed to have tried to shoot when you didn't, and N2 there's explanations of NKs that don't involve you.
Right there in my first D2 post I mentioned something was off; how could I have known if I didn't shoot?
Maybe you did it in the last few days?
Trust me, it just doesn't work as well.
His whole claim was a plan to get lynched. I think it's a perfectly valid scum plan.
Yeah, amazing plan. Get lynched. Really top-notch stuff.
-
Faust, we've played before, right? Don't you remember that everybody always thinks I'm scummy and I always get mislynched?
You will notice that I'm voting for LaLight, not you.
But "I always get mislynched" just isn't enough at some point. You need to show us that you're town.
-
This is a very scummy reaction to the plan.
No it's not.
Yes it is.
To me, this feels like "Hey scumbuddy, you have a plan? I'm interested in what you're going to say..." Might be confirmation bias at this point, but it still just feels wrong.
Don't think that as scum I would already have known what the plan was?
I was thinking that ash came up with it during the day.
Ash has a plan. Ultimate bussing. Ashersky tries to get lynched with a 1v1 with faust, which gives faust tons of townpoints. Scum knows that TWM might hide behind iguana, so scum will have to bus him at some point anyway, so faust decides to bus iguana too. Faust can then coast his way to victory, possibly using his extra vig shot to get the win before lylo.
That's bullshit. Noone would ever give me towncred for bussing ash. ash could have picked basically any other scum to bus him for better results. It doesn't take a genius to realize that any game situation involving ash and me will come under high scrutiny.
What does the person doing it have to do with anything?
First, you shot targets that I think were fine for both town and scum. You had already claimed before the massclaim so it was too late.
Yes I already claimed. Why in the world would scum!me have already claimed?
Because you realized you would have to claim eventually and the claim was okay for town?
His whole claim was a plan to get lynched. I think it's a perfectly valid scum plan.
Yeah, amazing plan. Get lynched. Really top-notch stuff.
People used to say that about bussing. If it wins you the game then it's a good plan.
-
Unfortunately, some things that work out quite mysteriously in timing make me think the LaLight bit of ash's speech may have been genuine.
I was just wondering, can you say what this is?
Not really.
-
To me, this feels like "Hey scumbuddy, you have a plan? I'm interested in what you're going to say..." Might be confirmation bias at this point, but it still just feels wrong.
Don't think that as scum I would already have known what the plan was?
I was thinking that ash came up with it during the day.
Yet you insinuate that I was already playing along with some sort of plan on that same day:
Yes you claim. YOu're not going to weasel yourself out of the massclaim. Vote: ashersky
You are the last (or second-to-last) person who I will listen to, given what I know.
Ash has a plan. Ultimate bussing. Ashersky tries to get lynched with a 1v1 with faust, which gives faust tons of townpoints. Scum knows that TWM might hide behind iguana, so scum will have to bus him at some point anyway, so faust decides to bus iguana too. Faust can then coast his way to victory, possibly using his extra vig shot to get the win before lylo.
-
I'm actually voting for RR. Who probably just made a stupid joke. Vote: LaLight
-
I'm actually voting for RR. Who probably just made a stupid joke. Vote: LaLight
should I make a stupid joke?
-
I'm actually voting for RR. Who probably just made a stupid joke. Vote: LaLight
should I make a stupid joke?
If you make a stupid joke he'll vote for you!
-
To me, this feels like "Hey scumbuddy, you have a plan? I'm interested in what you're going to say..." Might be confirmation bias at this point, but it still just feels wrong.
Don't think that as scum I would already have known what the plan was?
I was thinking that ash came up with it during the day.
Yet you insinuate that I was already playing along with some sort of plan on that same day:
Yes you claim. YOu're not going to weasel yourself out of the massclaim. Vote: ashersky
You are the last (or second-to-last) person who I will listen to, given what I know.
Ash has a plan. Ultimate bussing. Ashersky tries to get lynched with a 1v1 with faust, which gives faust tons of townpoints. Scum knows that TWM might hide behind iguana, so scum will have to bus him at some point anyway, so faust decides to bus iguana too. Faust can then coast his way to victory, possibly using his extra vig shot to get the win before lylo.
Ash came up with the plan, and told you the night after.
-
So how do I know to bus him the same day?
-
I cannot shake the feeling that you're either blinded by confirmation bias or scum trying to mislynch me. I mean you just responded to those parts of my posts that you had rebuttals for, and didn't even acknowledge that I refuted the larger part of your case.
-
So how do I know to bus him the same day?
You didn't, really. You started going after him more on the next day.
I cannot shake the feeling that you're either blinded by confirmation bias or scum trying to mislynch me. I mean you just responded to those parts of my posts that you had rebuttals for, and didn't even acknowledge that I refuted the larger part of your case.
There were several things you didn't mention as well, so I thought I would redo the favor.
-
So how do I know to bus him the same day?
You didn't, really. You started going after him more on the next day.
I did. You quoted my post as an example of the bussing. You are not making any sense here.
I cannot shake the feeling that you're either blinded by confirmation bias or scum trying to mislynch me. I mean you just responded to those parts of my posts that you had rebuttals for, and didn't even acknowledge that I refuted the larger part of your case.
There were several things you didn't mention as well, so I thought I would redo the favor.
Well yes, I only responded to the things worth responding to. I can hardly deny that my early reads were crap, so if you repeatedly bring that up, that is legitimate concern. But you made that case, so I thought that every point that I addressed was of some import to you, and that it would shake your read to realize the accusations were not legitimate.
-
hmm
i'm glad i'm not the only one to be suspicious of Faust
unfortunately it had to come in my favorite form of ..."""scumhunting"""... the glorious exercise of overfitting and confirmation bias known as the quote by quote dissection.
-
@Faust how would you respond to the argument that like when you vigged PPS, your role is the strongest threat to town?
If you are scum a perfectly viable scenario has been pointed out where you still have a vig shot, and Galzria didn't actually block an Ashersky kill.
That potential certainly puts you as the highest risk person to town.
-
@Faust how would you respond to the argument that like when you vigged PPS, your role is the strongest threat to town?
If you are scum a perfectly viable scenario has been pointed out where you still have a vig shot, and Galzria didn't actually block an Ashersky kill.
That's right of course. You should probably lynch me before LyLo. Scum!me could not shoot before that without outing himself.
But we're at 7 vs 2 now. If we mislynch and scum!me shoots, it's still 4 vs 2. That's not enough. After one mislynch, you should maybe shoot me.
Galzria can still block me though. Unless you assume we're both scum.
-
So here's the deal: Keep me alive until the next mislynch, the lynch me. Maybe I can make up for bad reads past and lynch the remaining scums before that happens.
-
So here's the deal: Keep me alive until the next mislynch, the lynch me. Maybe I can make up for bad reads past and lynch the remaining scums before that happens.
I hate "Just keep me alive" arguments.
If you are scum, your partner could be either Strongman or Roleblocker. If he's RB, he could block me from jailing you allowing you to shoot tonight. If we mislynch today then that puts us to MyLo tomorrow (7:2 now, lynch +2 NK = 4:2). Granted you would then be lynched, but it would bring the final day down to the argument of "Was Galzria blocked, or is he faust's scum partner?" And as I'm town this scenario concerns me because I think I get lynched (I think occams razor would suggest I'm scum there) and town loses.
Anyone else believe the Jake kill strongly implies that Galzria is town? If sucm had roleblocking capabilities, I'd think they would rather kill an IC.
This would be you trying to cover the likelihood of RB being present.
All that said, I don't really buy into Sudgy's case. The planned interactions with Ash and Iguana don't fit with my feelings on your interactions with the situation. Plus, I think Sudgy's vote for Space yesterday is leagues ahead of O and LaLight in respect to potential Iguana partners trying desperately to get one additional mislynch (assuming Space is town for the sake of this argument) in. Scum is 2 mislynches from LyLo (ordinary death expectancy), and I think they wanted that one real bad.
So... yeah. While I don't believe that you're scum more than Sudgy, I do think that given the threat that scum!Faust presents I could be talked into lynching you here.
-
Oh come on, that's ridiculous. There's no way I'm scummier than scummy McScumzor LaLight.
-
LaLight has done nothing but present a flimsy superficial O case today, then voted for me, the one person O consistently scumread. You can believe a lot of things but no way are O and I scum together, and a twon!LaLight who actually thinks about that kind of stuff would have realized, and would also have done more to figure this out.
-
Oh come on, that's ridiculous. There's no way I'm scummier than scummy McScumzor LaLight.
You were townreading me the whole game, what exactly changed? :(
-
LaLight has done nothing but present a flimsy superficial O case today, then voted for me, the one person O consistently scumread. You can believe a lot of things but no way are O and I scum together, and a twon!LaLight who actually thinks about that kind of stuff would have realized, and would also have done more to figure this out.
O defended quite well against my case, if anything he is now more town than you
-
And don't you think it's curious how my wagon is made up of the same people that were pushing for a Space lynch yesterday?
-
LaLight has done nothing but present a flimsy superficial O case today, then voted for me, the one person O consistently scumread. You can believe a lot of things but no way are O and I scum together, and a twon!LaLight who actually thinks about that kind of stuff would have realized, and would also have done more to figure this out.
O defended quite well against my case, if anything he is now more town than you
So can you for once post reads on people with reasons?
-
Why would you present an "if we mislynch lynch me" as town? That wiuld be a nice way to lose the game. Unless you didn't really mean it and said so we just have this mislynch you want
-
And don't you think it's curious how my wagon is made up of the same people that were pushing for a Space lynch yesterday?
And you know for sure Space is town? How so?
-
Why would you present an "if we mislynch lynch me" as town? That wiuld be a nice way to lose the game. Unless you didn't really mean it and said so we just have this mislynch you want
I aim to not mislynch.
-
And don't you think it's curious how my wagon is made up of the same people that were pushing for a Space lynch yesterday?
And you know for sure Space is town? How so?
I read their play.
-
And don't you think it's curious how my wagon is made up of the same people that were pushing for a Space lynch yesterday?
And you know for sure Space is town? How so?
I read their play.
Okay. But as you said already you reads aren't accurate this game, i know this even better given that you think i'm scum. And even if you disregard all that, how can you know for sure?
-
Why would you present an "if we mislynch lynch me" as town? That wiuld be a nice way to lose the game. Unless you didn't really mean it and said so we just have this mislynch you want
I aim to not mislynch.
But...
You say "if you mislynch, lynch me". If you are town, how does that benefit town?
-
Why would you present an "if we mislynch lynch me" as town? That wiuld be a nice way to lose the game. Unless you didn't really mean it and said so we just have this mislynch you want
I aim to not mislynch.
But...
You say "if you mislynch, lynch me". If you are town, how does that benefit town?
It means we're not mislynching me today.
-
And don't you think it's curious how my wagon is made up of the same people that were pushing for a Space lynch yesterday?
And you know for sure Space is town? How so?
I read their play.
Okay. But as you said already you reads aren't accurate this game, i know this even better given that you think i'm scum. And even if you disregard all that, how can you know for sure?
I don't and never said I did.
-
Why would you present an "if we mislynch lynch me" as town? That wiuld be a nice way to lose the game. Unless you didn't really mean it and said so we just have this mislynch you want
I aim to not mislynch.
But...
You say "if you mislynch, lynch me". If you are town, how does that benefit town?
It means we're not mislynching me today.
So you were saying that just not to get lynched, huh?
What will you say if we mislynch someone today?
-
And don't you think it's curious how my wagon is made up of the same people that were pushing for a Space lynch yesterday?
And you know for sure Space is town? How so?
I read their play.
Okay. But as you said already you reads aren't accurate this game, i know this even better given that you think i'm scum. And even if you disregard all that, how can you know for sure?
I don't and never said I did.
Lol i thought you did. Hello from 2am.
Nevertheless. You can't throw shade onto people who were on wagon of non confirmed alignment, this is my opinion
-
And don't you think it's curious how my wagon is made up of the same people that were pushing for a Space lynch yesterday?
And you know for sure Space is town? How so?
I read their play.
Okay. But as you said already you reads aren't accurate this game, i know this even better given that you think i'm scum. And even if you disregard all that, how can you know for sure?
I don't and never said I did.
Lol i thought you did. Hello from 2am.
Nevertheless. You can't throw shade onto people who were on wagon of non confirmed alignment, this is my opinion
Welll I have already proven that wrong.
-
Why would you present an "if we mislynch lynch me" as town? That wiuld be a nice way to lose the game. Unless you didn't really mean it and said so we just have this mislynch you want
I aim to not mislynch.
But...
You say "if you mislynch, lynch me". If you are town, how does that benefit town?
It means we're not mislynching me today.
So you were saying that just not to get lynched, huh?
What will you say if we mislynch someone today?
You'll only find out if you stop voting for me :)
-
And don't you think it's curious how my wagon is made up of the same people that were pushing for a Space lynch yesterday?
And you know for sure Space is town? How so?
I read their play.
Okay. But as you said already you reads aren't accurate this game, i know this even better given that you think i'm scum. And even if you disregard all that, how can you know for sure?
I don't and never said I did.
Lol i thought you did. Hello from 2am.
Nevertheless. You can't throw shade onto people who were on wagon of non confirmed alignment, this is my opinion
Welll I have already proven that wrong.
You know that i mean shouldn't, come on
I think you really do want to sell us mislynch on sudgy. I have reread a couple of older games to look at sudgy's play and well, he really is the easy mislynch bait and you of all people know it.
When you realised sudgy doesn't get support, you turned on me, because Space is already scumreading me and i definitely think you both are activest and smartest players in the room (not to offend others) so you can push this mislynch through. That's what i feel.
Sorry, need to go to bed now
-
Why would you present an "if we mislynch lynch me" as town? That wiuld be a nice way to lose the game. Unless you didn't really mean it and said so we just have this mislynch you want
I aim to not mislynch.
But...
You say "if you mislynch, lynch me". If you are town, how does that benefit town?
It means we're not mislynching me today.
So you were saying that just not to get lynched, huh?
What will you say if we mislynch someone today?
You'll only find out if you stop voting for me :)
Oooh stop tempting me, you! ;)
No way. You're scum
-
Oh come on, that's ridiculous. There's no way I'm scummier than scummy McScumzor LaLight.
Sorry, I don't think I stated that clearly.
No, I don't think you're scummier than LaLight. I think my order goes like:
Sudgy >>>>> O = LaLight >>> Faust & Others
What I meant is that I think that if you're scum, you're the single most dangerous person in the game - so if I'm not lynching my highest scum read then I could see myself voting you because on a scum danger scale:
Faust >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Everybody
-
I'm unconvinced by sudgy's case on faust. I'd move to sudgy if it came to it, but LL is my preferred lynch for today, I think.
My issue with sudgy is that his votes are so similar to Dylan's -- they're on all the same wagons, so I feel like in that sense they're a bit interchangeable, so I'm a bit 50-50 on them, whereas LL is a bit more individual in his play, so I feel that's kind of a clearer signal.
Here are snapshots from the first and last point at which the mcmc wagon was at 4 people on D1.
#782
LL (1): Space
e (1): Andrew
Cuzz (1): Eevee
TWM (6): JR, ash, Dylan, sudgy, e, mcmc
ash (1): iguana
mcmc (4): gkrieg, LL, Jake, TWM
sudgy (1): faust
JR (1): Galz
iguana (1): Cuzz
Awaclus (1): O
O (1): Awaclus
Not Voting (4): Calamitas, PPS, RR, Jimmmmm
#991
e (1): Andrew
TWM (3): JR, ash, mcmc
mcmc (4): gkrieg, Jake, Space, LL
sudgy (1): faust
JR (7): Galz, e, Dylan, TWM, Eevee, sudgy, iguana
iguana (1): Cuzz
Awaclus (1): O
O (1): Awaclus
Andrew (1): PPS
Not Voting (3): Calamitas, RR, Jimmmmm
Note that in the early part, Dylan and sudgy are both on TWM, and that they've both shifted to JR later on. LL is on the mcmc wagon, though he jumped away to join O on Awaclus for a while, and came back again pretty much as soon as I'd joined on mcmc -- I think that's a sign of opportunistic scum looking for a mislynch wagon.
Here's a snapshot from D2 that I don't think I've posted yet. It's at the point where the Cuz wagon has started to shrink and the Andrew wagon is taking off:
#2483
Cuzz (6): faust, sudgy, Dylan, Andrew, Space, iguana
O (1): Awaclus
Dylan (1): Galz
Andrew (6): LL, Eevee, O, RR, PPS, Jake
Space (1): Cuzz
Not Voting (5): ash, mcmc, Jimmmmm, TWM, e
I think the reason that iguana is as late as he is on Cuzz is because there's a scum earlier on there in {sudgy, Dylan} -- see how those two are together again? -- and I think LL is the most likely on-wagon scum for pushing the start of that Andrew wagon.
I hope I'm not just doing too much of a rehash of my earlier reasoning and stuff. I'd really like to hear comments from people who think my Dylan/sudgy equivalence is misguided (or accurate!), and other theories about what's going on around these points in the wagon histories...
Right now I need sleep, though!
-
I need to start packing soon and I won't be here for deadline, so I'm not sure if I'll be able to be back here again. I still think faust is scum. If everybody still wants to lynch me, so be it, you don't need to wait for me. I've said everything that I need to say. Just definitely look at faust tomorrow after I flip town.
-
Welp seems like the options are "vote Faust" or "lose the game to dangerously bad reads from our nearly confirmed town players".
I'll go ahead and Vote: Faust then even though I think we actually can wait a day on lynching him: for tonight, he's no worse than any other townie since he's not going to torpedo his survival odds at Vigging someone else.
Well maybe he might think that's smarter than trying to not get lynched tomorrow, IDK.
... actually that's a pretty good explanation for the "lynch me tomorrow" argument he put forward.
-
and according to Galzria's absurdly esoteric scumhunting methods, if Faust flips scum I'm scummier and if Faust flips town I'm townier. Yay....
-
I really don't like this.
Vote Count 5.4
iguanaiguana (6): faust, SpaceAnemone, RoadRunner7671, Dylan32, Awaclus, iguanaiguana
SpaceAnemone (3): LaLight, O, sudgy
Not Voting (2): Galzria, Jimmmmm
With 11 alive it took 6 to lynch.
Currently on faust: O, Sudgy, LaLight & Roadrunner.
For the [at least 1] town of you that have found yourself on both Space (especially after the Iguana flip) and this one... really? Do you believe the others are town?
Road, do you think all three people on both wagons are town? If they're all town then the lynch on Iguana (which took 6 of 11 and didn't include Jimmm) is really weird, isn't it? Why did that go through?
Scum!Faust is a really, really bad prospect for us. But I just absolutely don't see it. Faust being scum, based on wagons doesn't make sense.
-
Unvote
I think you're right. It doesn't really make sense.
-
I really don't like this.
Vote Count 5.4
iguanaiguana (6): faust, SpaceAnemone, RoadRunner7671, Dylan32, Awaclus, iguanaiguana
SpaceAnemone (3): LaLight, O, sudgy
Not Voting (2): Galzria, Jimmmmm
With 11 alive it took 6 to lynch.
Currently on faust: O, Sudgy, LaLight & Roadrunner.
For the [at least 1] town of you that have found yourself on both Space (especially after the Iguana flip) and this one... really? Do you believe the others are town?
Road, do you think all three people on both wagons are town? If they're all town then the lynch on Iguana (which took 6 of 11 and didn't include Jimmm) is really weird, isn't it? Why did that go through?
Scum!Faust is a really, really bad prospect for us. But I just absolutely don't see it. Faust being scum, based on wagons doesn't make sense.
Space also being scum resolves all those concerns, but apparently being statistically more likely to be scum than anyone else left alive is obvtown for everyone here.
-
I really don't like this.
Vote Count 5.4
iguanaiguana (6): faust, SpaceAnemone, RoadRunner7671, Dylan32, Awaclus, iguanaiguana
SpaceAnemone (3): LaLight, O, sudgy
Not Voting (2): Galzria, Jimmmmm
With 11 alive it took 6 to lynch.
Currently on faust: O, Sudgy, LaLight & Roadrunner.
For the [at least 1] town of you that have found yourself on both Space (especially after the Iguana flip) and this one... really? Do you believe the others are town?
Road, do you think all three people on both wagons are town? If they're all town then the lynch on Iguana (which took 6 of 11 and didn't include Jimmm) is really weird, isn't it? Why did that go through?
Scum!Faust is a really, really bad prospect for us. But I just absolutely don't see it. Faust being scum, based on wagons doesn't make sense.
Space also being scum resolves all those concerns, but apparently being statistically more likely to be scum than anyone else left alive is obvtown for everyone here.
I saw your point, and yes technically you're correct on the math. The best type of correct even. My favorite. Space isn't obv!town, but I don't think they're play supports the math. And I don't think that line of math is actually beneficial to lynching and finding scum.
If Space is scum then yesterday's wagons literally mean nothing. But if you want me to believe iguana and Space and Ashersky and Calam were partners, please give me actual reasons based on their play. I'm willing to consider it, yes. But I honestly don't see it right now.
-
Actually Space being town, Scum could just as well seen the writing on the wall of the Space/Iguana lynch and decided bussing to a 2/7 position was smarter than not bussing to try (and still possibly fail) to get to a 2/5 position and scummier wagons.
PPE: I'm not sold on the trios, I'm just not sold on your discounting of the Trios. They seem statistically and playstyle wise as likely as other combinations.
If I only wanted to survive I would have just taken LaLights awful case on me and driven LaLight to a lynch. The case was presently poorly enough that I very likely could have done that. The only reason I wouldn't do that as scum is if magically LaLight and I were the remaining scumpair. Can you really defend our actions today as some elaborate bussing-then-not-bussing plan?
I want you to argue more vigorously why scum actually had to be off the Iguana wagon in the Space!Town case, because frankly that's not clear to me at all.
-
13 hours left
-
I really don't like this.
Vote Count 5.4
iguanaiguana (6): faust, SpaceAnemone, RoadRunner7671, Dylan32, Awaclus, iguanaiguana
SpaceAnemone (3): LaLight, O, sudgy
Not Voting (2): Galzria, Jimmmmm
With 11 alive it took 6 to lynch.
Currently on faust: O, Sudgy, LaLight & Roadrunner.
For the [at least 1] town of you that have found yourself on both Space (especially after the Iguana flip) and this one... really? Do you believe the others are town?
Road, do you think all three people on both wagons are town? If they're all town then the lynch on Iguana (which took 6 of 11 and didn't include Jimmm) is really weird, isn't it? Why did that go through?
Scum!Faust is a really, really bad prospect for us. But I just absolutely don't see it. Faust being scum, based on wagons doesn't make sense.
Space also being scum resolves all those concerns, but apparently being statistically more likely to be scum than anyone else left alive is obvtown for everyone here.
So why are you not voting for Space?
-
No, I don't think you're scummier than LaLight. I think my order goes like:
Sudgy >>>>> O = LaLight >>> Faust & Others
Why is sudgy so scummy in your eyes?
-
I really don't like this.
Vote Count 5.4
iguanaiguana (6): faust, SpaceAnemone, RoadRunner7671, Dylan32, Awaclus, iguanaiguana
SpaceAnemone (3): LaLight, O, sudgy
Not Voting (2): Galzria, Jimmmmm
With 11 alive it took 6 to lynch.
Currently on faust: O, Sudgy, LaLight & Roadrunner.
For the [at least 1] town of you that have found yourself on both Space (especially after the Iguana flip) and this one... really? Do you believe the others are town?
Road, do you think all three people on both wagons are town? If they're all town then the lynch on Iguana (which took 6 of 11 and didn't include Jimmm) is really weird, isn't it? Why did that go through?
Scum!Faust is a really, really bad prospect for us. But I just absolutely don't see it. Faust being scum, based on wagons doesn't make sense.
Space also being scum resolves all those concerns, but apparently being statistically more likely to be scum than anyone else left alive is obvtown for everyone here.
So why are you not voting for Space?
I was, certainly nobody seemed interested.
-
I am fine with faust or Space lynch
-
I am fine with faust or Space lynch
Of course you are.
-
Less than 6 hours to deadline. Who is around?
-
Request prods on Dylan and Awaclus
-
The way I see it, 2 votes on sudgy, 3 on me, 1 on LaLight?
I prefer LaLight over sudgy by a decent amount.
-
Request prods on Dylan and Awaclus
Dylan has a VLA in force till July 4th. I find this inconvenient, because to me he makes sense as an LL-partner, but I expect the root cause is summer holiday rather than scumminess directly :-P
-
Less than 6 hours to deadline. Who is around?
Should be around for the deadline, though may be away in between for going home/supermarket/cooking food, assuming I can debug the rest of my work problems in good time...
-
I will vote LL or sudgy. I don't see it on faust today. I know I was afraid of losing to him, but I don't trust the wagon on him at all right now...
-
Vote: LaLight
-
I am here and there, will try to present, but weekend, you know
-
I'm at work all day today and will not be active at deadline.
The reasons I prefer Sudgy:
1) I think his vote, reasoning, and timing for Space d5 far exceeds LL or O in the "scum trying to derail a partner lynch" category.
2) Ash's "lynch from the top down" comment, followed by iguana agreeing with it - up until it was brought up yesterday and then all of a sudden iguana pushed hard AF to distance himself from it.
3) My belief that Faust is town makes Sudgy pushing his lynch way worse than LaLight pushing for my null read on Space or slight scum read on O. The fact that LL is willing to vote Faust feels more like preservation than scum pushing a probable town lynch.
-
I'm somewhat around. How many hours til deadline?
Galz tell me who to vote for and I'll sheep it I guess, willing to lynch anyone but Me/you/Awaclus over NoLynch.
Looks like you find Sudgy scummier but less people are currently on him making him the harder lynch. So direct me.
-
Okay, so here's the one thing that makes me hesitant about a sudgy lynch, and still keen on an LL lynch.
#1 faust, 2-shot vig (slot 1)
#2 ?
#3 Jimmmmm, original Mason (slot 6)
#4 mcmc, Hammer Hero (slot 9)
#5 LL, VT (went for slot 1)
#6 e, SK, 1-Shot Bus Driver (claims slot 13; definitely can't have been 6)
#7 sudgy, VT (went for slot 6)
#8 Dylan, VT (went for slot 13)
#9 Eevee, was VT, became Mason. (went for slot 6)
#10 Awaclus, VT
#11 iguana, VT (went for slot 13) but was a scum goon.
#12 ashersky, claimed Role Cop (slot 4?) but was a scum goon.
#13 TWM, Hider (Slot 10)
#14 JR, VT
#15 PPS, restless sheeper (slot 2)
#16 ?
#17 Jake, Tracker (slot 12)
#18 Space, VT (went for slot 12)
#19 RR, VT (went for slot 13)
#20 Galz, Jailkeeper (slot 11)
#21 O, VT (went for slot?)
#22 ?
#23 ?
Sudgy claimed VT, draft position #7 and slot 6 all in post #2867, which is much earlier than most of the rest of the slot claims, because he claimed more information than he was supposed to in the first round of the claiming exercise. That could mean he had insider info that slot 6 was already taken, or it could be a very lucky guess. I feel like slot #6 isn't going to have been a top scum pick, and all three scums who've flipped so far have been goons. Am I missing a reason why this doesn't make things kind of unlikely?
Faust claimed vig at #2678, so that's about 200 posts before sudgy's claim. That's a much more plausible slot to go for as a hiding place for a high-ish-placed scum trying to claim VT, if they'd rather do that than risk a fake PR claim. And it's the slot LL says he went for at post #3190 (having claimed VT and draft position #5 at #2968). LL was very low down in Awaclus's claiming order.
Dylan claimed VT and draft position #8 at post#2918. Jimmmmm was above him in the claiming order, but was awol during the first round of claims, and then claimed Eevee's draft position at #2943. Dylan claimed in #3096 that he bid for slot 13 and didn't get it. At #2958, e claimed VT, and then at #2991, he claimed draft order #19 and slot 13.
So this angle of analysis makes it look to me like LL is the right lynch target for today: he's high in the draft order (so we might expect him to be more likely than other potential scums to be a non-goon), he had a totally safe slot to claim, because faust had claimed it 500 posts earlier, and he was very low down in the claiming order, so he'd pretty much seen everything everyone else had said before he was required to chip in with his own information.
-
How many hours til deadline?
Approximately 2 hours.
-
I want to lynch LaLight.
-
I want to lynch LaLight.
Why?
-
well, believe it or not, I already explained, that I bid on 2-shot vig because I thought that the first 4 places will fight for Alignment com and Hammer Hero that are the most powerful roles in my opinion. I don't what i would claim if I was scum, but this claim is too too convenient to actually do this. I tried to take vig, I failed
-
i hate this actually. Always wanted to be vig :(
-
#21 O, VT (went for slot?)
Since seemingly 2-3 people think this is accurate:
I am inclined to believe that Galzria is telling the truth about his draft. That being said I don't see the benefit of claiming now.
I also bid for slot 11, being so low in the draft, and did not receive it. That was very softly suggested in this post but obviously you could say that wasn't really a soft claim.
-
I like Space's post at #3989, so vote: LaLight Have to run out real quick and I'm not sure if I'll be back before the deadline. I also have no idea where the vote count is, so please double check before adding a vote in case this is L1.
-
#21 O, VT (went for slot?)
Since seemingly 2-3 people think this is accurate:
I am inclined to believe that Galzria is telling the truth about his draft. That being said I don't see the benefit of claiming now.
I also bid for slot 11, being so low in the draft, and did not receive it. That was very softly suggested in this post but obviously you could say that wasn't really a soft claim.
Ah, sorry, sure! I copy-pasted from the list I have here in my text-file of game notes, and your eventual slot claim was late enough (#3455, long after the end of the main exercise) that I'd just compiled the rest of what we had.
I wasn't meaning to imply I didn't believe your slot claim, though of course by putting you at the end of the preference order, Awaclus didn't give you much scope to look townier by declaring something that hadn't already been known at the time in the claiming order.
-
I like Space's post at #3989, so vote: LaLight Have to run out real quick and I'm not sure if I'll be back before the deadline. I also have no idea where the vote count is, so please double check before adding a vote in case this is L1.
I'd particularly like people to check my reasoning and point out other posts I may have missed, rather than sheeping a good case... It would be awesome not to break our current scum-lynching streak, but it's getting harder to be sure about everyone now.
I do believe your vote is L-1 though, with me, faust, RR and you on the wagon now.
-
#21 O, VT (went for slot?)
Since seemingly 2-3 people think this is accurate:
I am inclined to believe that Galzria is telling the truth about his draft. That being said I don't see the benefit of claiming now.
I also bid for slot 11, being so low in the draft, and did not receive it. That was very softly suggested in this post but obviously you could say that wasn't really a soft claim.
Ah, sorry, sure! I copy-pasted from the list I have here in my text-file of game notes, and your eventual slot claim was late enough (#3455, long after the end of the main exercise) that I'd just compiled the rest of what we had.
I wasn't meaning to imply I didn't believe your slot claim, though of course by putting you at the end of the preference order, Awaclus didn't give you much scope to look townier by declaring something that hadn't already been known at the time in the claiming order.
yea I was pretty confident it was just missed, but at the same time i didn't want someone going "why didn't you point it out earlier" to me on some later date.
I didn't claim when I was supposed to because I was confused about what exactly was being claimed and was distracted by the E/Roadrunner debacle. But really you're right that it wasn't very important given where Awaclus put me in the order, I only have the "softclaim" to rely on to have anyone believe it.
-
1 hour 20 minutes
I won't be around right during Deadline
should I hammer LaLight? Feels quite shitty since the wagon seems scummier to me than LaLight.
-
1 hour 20 minutes
I won't be around right during Deadline
should I hammer LaLight? Feels quite shitty since the wagon seems scummier to me than LaLight.
You shouldn't. I can try going for Space, but doesn't seem like anyone's gonna join us
-
Guys, after mislynching me, do me a favor and go for faust and space. Thanks
-
vote count would be nice
-
My wagon grew really fast. I even see Dylan as scum quite brightly
-
And here I thought i will be at lylo and would need to reread whole thread to find a scum while suddenly scum decided to push a mislynch on me. Good job
-
faust = Space > Dylan > O > RR > sudgy
-
From scummiest to towniest
-
Anyway.
I think we still have all the chances to win. I just want you to think: you lynch me, don't you leave scummier people alive so it will be hard for you to lynch correctly after? faust lynch is much more useful even if he's town
-
Also eventually DAMA
-
I am open to any conversation till the deadline and in twilight
-
Hey?
-
Anyway.
I think we still have all the chances to win. I just want you to think: you lynch me, don't you leave scummier people alive so it will be hard for you to lynch correctly after? faust lynch is much more useful even if he's town
I would see this as leaving "scummier people alive" if I actually saw you as being towny this game.
PPE 2
-
I think the problem is that i thought that in the game this big there will be tons of data to analyze, so scum needs to be mega manipulative and careful to live through ~10 days.
If there will be my mislynch, it only confirma this theory. So faust/Space
-
god i hate moving couches.
LL you need to convince me that LL lynch is worse than NoLynch it seems. Shitty position I know.
-
Anyway.
I think we still have all the chances to win. I just want you to think: you lynch me, don't you leave scummier people alive so it will be hard for you to lynch correctly after? faust lynch is much more useful even if he's town
I would see this as leaving "scummier people alive" if I actually saw you as being towny this game.
PPE 2
Look, there are towny people and scummy people and some people are scummier than others. Did you analyze Space' vote count yourself or took their analysis by belief?
I was not particularly active and cool this game, i admit it. But I didn't do anything scummy
-
god i hate moving couches.
LL you need to convince me that LL lynch is worse than NoLynch it seems. Shitty position I know.
Of course it is not better! Why would i convince you if this is a bad move for town? I just hope there's someone else to join us on faust
-
Of course lynch me over no lynch, that's not even a question. But we have time, maybe someone will come
-
I'm off for the episode of Modern Family (~20 minutes)
-
I solemnly swear to hammer myself 3 minutes to deadline if no one'll be there
-
There's no chance of another wagon
No reason to risk a potential Scum!LaLight not hammering at DL
Vote: LaLight
back to couches
-
I would hammer why would i not? To get lynched the next day?
-
And i'm obviously town, thanks guys
-
Anyway.
I think we still have all the chances to win. I just want you to think: you lynch me, don't you leave scummier people alive so it will be hard for you to lynch correctly after? faust lynch is much more useful even if he's town
I would see this as leaving "scummier people alive" if I actually saw you as being towny this game.
PPE 2
Look, there are towny people and scummy people and some people are scummier than others. Did you analyze Space' vote count yourself or took their analysis by belief?
I was not particularly active and cool this game, i admit it. But I didn't do anything scummy
I wasn't referring to Space's vote count, I was specifically referring to their reasoning on the draft order claim earlier. I posted my own analysis of the voting patterns pretty soon after Space posted the raw data.
-
Hey LL.. sorry if you really were town :-(
I really do think you looked like our best bet of hitting scum today!
-
Anyway.
I think we still have all the chances to win. I just want you to think: you lynch me, don't you leave scummier people alive so it will be hard for you to lynch correctly after? faust lynch is much more useful even if he's town
I would see this as leaving "scummier people alive" if I actually saw you as being towny this game.
PPE 2
Look, there are towny people and scummy people and some people are scummier than others. Did you analyze Space' vote count yourself or took their analysis by belief?
I was not particularly active and cool this game, i admit it. But I didn't do anything scummy
I wasn't referring to Space's vote count, I was specifically referring to their reasoning on the draft order claim earlier. I posted my own analysis of the voting patterns pretty soon after Space posted the raw data.
Ugh will you believe if i say i meant draft order claim? Because that is the reason to vote me i am most salty about. I bidded on vig, it was the best decision then
-
Hey LL.. sorry if you really were town :-(
I really do think you looked like our best bet of hitting scum today!
I don't think i did tho
-
I'm going to take this opportunity to duck out and and cycle home... now that there's been a hammer, I think it's less useful to be sitting around online at work rather than at home making something to eat!
-
I don't think flip will be soon.
Anyway just wanted to say, it was nice to play mafia with all of you, i step out for some time. See some of you in Berlin :)
-
I don't think flip will be soon.
Anyway just wanted to say, it was nice to play mafia with all of you, i step out for some time. See some of you in Berlin :)
*hugs* to you and Fargo! I'm really looking forward to the Berlin gathering :-)
-
I would hammer why would i not? To get lynched the next day?
If you are scum, not self hammering would be the right thing to do. Yeah you would get lynched tomorrow, but it would keep us from lynching someone else (your partner) instead.
-
Yeah, me too, really
*hugs* from us both :)
-
I would hammer why would i not? To get lynched the next day?
If you are scum, not self hammering would be the right thing to do. Yeah you would get lynched tomorrow, but it would keep us from lynching someone else (your partner) instead.
I don't think i would do this
-
As scum, not self hammering that is
-
:(
-
thread locked, flip in about 30 min, need to get thru airport security. Traveling today.
-
Vote Count 6.4
sudgy (2): Galzria, Awaclus
LaLight (5): SpaceAnemone, faust, RoadRunner7671, Dylan32, O
faust (2): sudgy, LaLight
With 9 alive it took 5 to lynch.
-
Just read everything from this...
GUYS. I have a plan. Hold on. Don't don't do anything. I can solve this.
...to the end of the day.
LaLight, the Mafia-Aligned Godfather-er, has been lynched!
Night 6 begins now. All players must check-in with me by posting in their QTs. Actions are due within 48 hours. Day 7 will begin no later than Monday, June 26, at 5:00 PM Forum Time, though it could begin earlier.
-
Walrus- another victim of v/la. He did have a nice summary reads post though the other day. Too bad he didn't post more last night. Reads from people drunk-posting are the best reads ever. Null read.
PPE: another walrus useful post. Still null
Summaries are scummaries.
Agreed yet another reason 2.7 is scum.
Ah I see you were calling walrus summary scummy, 2.7 giving a summary of what walrus's summary meant seems scummy to. Scummy summarception!
well it is scummier to stop halfway through my scummaries than finish them off. 4 to go.
Faust, the Town-Aligned 2-Shot Vigilante, has been killed.
DAY 7 START!
THREAD UNLOCKED.
-
Vote Count 7.1
Not Voting (7): Galzria, Dylan32, RoadRunner7671, O, SpaceAnemone, sudgy, Awaclus
With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Day 7 ends Monday, July 3, At 2:00 PM Forum Time.
-
I'm pleased with that kill. Awaclus, Roadrunner and now Galz are now pretty much confirmed town to me!
-
LaLight had me so convinced he was town in Twilight lol. Glad to be wrong. Good job Faust and Space on getting that lynch.
-
Why would they NK Faust..?
If Galz is scum grats, because its technically possible, but I'll be playing as if he's conf!town now.
So we have 3 lynches to hit scum out of (Dylan, Roadrunner, O, Space, Sudgy). Still very possible to lose IMO,
-
Why is Roadrunner in the pool?
-
Why is Roadrunner in the pool?
Why did you kill faust last night?
Also I seem to have missed you becoming conf!town
-
Also why is Galzria not telling us who else is likely!town?
-
Why would they NK Faust..?
My leading theories would be something along the lines of:
1) Because they're afraid that he has a shot left.
2) They thought Galz would protect their preferred target.
3) WIFOM, depending on how good faust's other reads were in the previous day.
4) The remaining scum is afraid of faust.
-
I only got home a short while ago, and I'm desperate for sleep just now... I'm more free for extra bits of analysis tomorrow evening.
I've been on correct scum-lynching wagons for the past four ends-of-days running now, and I'd love to make it five :-)
I agree it would be really useful to know Glaz's target from last night.
-
Galz cant jail himself so it made literally no sense for them to NK anyone else, except for some low WIFOM about galz it throws in.
-
I guess I just directed scum with that... but really that should be common knowledge.
-
I'm curious who else each of you think would have been a more likely nk? vote: sudgy, and now that my obvious preference is known, but if SOMEHOW sudgy is town, it is probably one of O or RR, with O more likely than RR by a decent amount.
PPE 3
Either Galz's target is IC, or Galz himself is scum (which would also mean his named target is town).
-
Oh yeah, it should have been Galz... duh.
-
The good thing about it being faust is that we don't have to worry about the lingering suspicion that he and Ash were faking the 1v1 against each other.
-
Everything I just said was 70% false scum is with decently high probability a strongman, making Galzria's role likely irrelevant.
Still makes no sense to shoot Faust over Awaclus/Galzria tho..
-
Sorry, at work, had to teach some classes.
I jailed Sudgy last night after faust's suggestion yesterday that I jail my greatest scum read instead of Awaclus. Looking at the wagon that was on Faust combined with my already town read on him combined with his push of LaLight combined with the fact that if there's a Strongman or RB then he was an IC - all left me 99% certain he was town.
I don't think it's relevant though because I believe that my not dying confirms RoleBlocker/Strongman (or really risky WIFOM which makes no sense to me)
-
Vote Count 7.2
sudgy (1): Dylan32
Not Voting (6): Galzria, RoadRunner7671, O, SpaceAnemone, sudgy, Awaclus
With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Day 7 ends Monday, July 3, At 2:00 PM Forum Time.
-
I don't think it's relevant though because I believe that my not dying confirms RoleBlocker/Strongman (or really risky WIFOM which makes no sense to me)
How does that work?
In case any of you missed it in the V/LA thread, I'll only be able to be here once a day. I did manage to get the whole thread downloaded so I can reread at other times. I'll try to reread everybody before the day is over.
-
Darn it Galz... in light of sudgy being blocked (but still not IC'd obviously), unvote for now
-
Vote Count 7.3
Not Voting (7): Galzria, RoadRunner7671, O, SpaceAnemone, sudgy, Awaclus, Dylan32
With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Day 7 ends Monday, July 3, At 2:00 PM Forum Time.
-
Vote: O
-
I don't think it's relevant though because I believe that my not dying confirms RoleBlocker/Strongman (or really risky WIFOM which makes no sense to me)
How does that work?
I'm alive, which leads to three "likely" outcomes, and in my mind one fourth, less likely one:
(1 & 2):
The remaining scum has a way to negate my PR. If they're a Strongman, they can shoot even if I jail them (and they kill my target even if we target the same person). If they're a Roleblocker they can block me (RB has higher priority than JK) and then shoot away. I'm essentially a VT to them with the added bonus that they can try and frame me as...
(3):
I'm the remaining scum. This isn't relevant to me, but it could be considered by the rest of town.
(4):
They can't negate my PR, I could potentially actually block them. There's a LOT of risk and WIFOM on their part here by choosing not to kill me. So much so that I highly doubt this is true.
I believe I'm alive because I believe one of (1 or 2) is accurate. My PR isn't a threat to scum.
-
Vote: O
I agree with this sentiment.
-
Here's my old lynch wagon post updated to include the LL wagon (and Space's SK total is fixed)
Here are the final lynch wagons from each day with known alignments colored in.
D1
JR (10): e, Dylan, gkrieg, LL, Jake, sudgy, iguana, Space, TWM, mcmc
D2
Andrew (10): LL, Eevee, O, PPS, Jake, iguana, Jimmmmm, Cuzz, Galz, mcmc
D3
e (10): RR, PPS, Galz, sudgy, TWM, Space, Jimmmmm, LL, e, mcmc (The script didn't stop at the hammer, mcmc's didn't count)
D4
ash (7): faust, LL, sudgy, Jake, Space, iguana, ash
D5
iguana (6): faust, Space, RR, Dylan, Awaclus, iguana
D6
LaLight (5): SpaceAnemone, faust, RoadRunner7671, Dylan32, O
Final wagon stats:
Lynch target = T SK M
LL - 2 1 1
sudgy - 1 1 1
O - 1 0 1
Galz - 1 1 0
faust - 0 0 3
Space - 1 1 3
Dylan - 1 0 2
RR - 0 1 2
End of yesterday (color added):
Vote Count 6.4
sudgy (2): Galzria, Awaclus
LaLight (5): SpaceAnemone, faust, RoadRunner7671, Dylan32, O
faust (2): sudgy, LaLight
With 9 alive it took 5 to lynch.
-
Forgot to go back and color in LL and faust above D6.
Would scum really bus to go down 6 town vs 1 scum? Because that would be what O would have done.
-
Another note, Awaclus hasn't been on the lynching wagon yet this entire game. That's not an alignment thing, just interesting.
The only scum Galz has helped lynch was the SK. Anyone (other than Galz) know their tendencies regarding busing?
Space has been on all 4 scum lynches. They're conf!town as far as I'm concerned.
RR looks pretty townie based on where he's ended up; he was on 2 out of 3 mafia + the SK wagons, and not a single town wagon.
O was only on scum yesterday.
Everyone other than RR and Awaclus ended up on a mislynch exactly one of D1 or D2.
If it looks like a duck, and votes like a duck, it must be a vote: galz
-
Vote: O
-
My gut is saying Dylan here, but I need time to back that up with evidence since he looks generally townie most of the time. I should be able to have an hour or so uninterrupted late tonight my time (like 6pm-ish forum time) to see whether my head and gut are going to have a big disagreement on it...
I know we're moving slowly at this point anyway, and a scum quickhammer on a town wagon while I'm gone is unlikely in our situation, but I thought I'd give you a heads-up anyway :-P
-
Another note, Awaclus hasn't been on the lynching wagon yet this entire game. That's not an alignment thing, just interesting.
The only scum Galz has helped lynch was the SK. Anyone (other than Galz) know their tendencies regarding busing?
Space has been on all 4 scum lynches. They're conf!town as far as I'm concerned.
RR looks pretty townie based on where he's ended up; he was on 2 out of 3 mafia + the SK wagons, and not a single town wagon.
O was only on scum yesterday.
Everyone other than RR and Awaclus ended up on a mislynch exactly one of D1 or D2.
If it looks like a duck, and votes like a duck, it must be a vote: galz
Quack Quack.
That's headline analysis without reading the story.
LaLight is the only Mafia I genuinely didn't want lynched. Both O and I were actively engaged and waiting to hammer Ashersky so that we could get the most out of the day, and with Iguana I went to place the L-1 vote (on him and not Space mind you, when they were both L-2) but PPE'd to avoid a quickhammer as Awaclus voted while I was typing. I then posted an intent to hammer so that people could wrap up.
So yeah, I wasn't "on" any of their lynch wagons. I know Ashersky tracks stats for that sort of stuff around here, but I honestly don't care. I contributed to each getting lynched, and that's enough to make me happy.
-
I'm fine dying here because it prevents Awaclus's substandard play from losing us the game at Lylo by hammering out of pure salt. And it truly is substandard play, even for the "I play by metagaming for most long term wins across games" philosophy. It only works in the slightest because the prominent f.ds mafia players apparently wish to allow it to work. /rant.
Not convinced me hammering LaLight as opposed to just not being there is the towniest looking thing, but it'd be really pretty desperate for me to do as scum. I guess under the assumption that the scum pair was O-LaLight the situation would be desperate enough for me to try it.
Either way I look forward to postgame justifications of "do literally nothing as confirmed townie" as pro-town play.
-
Here's my thoughts on each player, now that that's actually feasible:
Galzria: Tend to believe his claim. I understand what he's saying now about Strongman/RB, and agree that if he's town it definitely means scum has those roles. I wouldn't lynch him today unless something comes up.
Awaclus: Another likely town (it is still possible that he's not), and I wouldn't lynch him today either.
Space: Definitely not as much town, but still pretty town. I don't think that being on ash or iguana is really alignment indicative for anyone, however being on LaLight yesterday definitely brings townpoints.
Dylan: The mystery man. He was on the LaLight lynch too, so there's some townpoints, but honestly all I remember about him is how I never remember anything about him.
RoadRunner: I don't know if I've ever played with him before, but he's playing exactly as I would expect. He feels like town but I'm not sure. He could fake his play. He was also on the LaLight lynch, though.
O: I think O is town. I totally believe him when he says that as scum he loves to bus. He's been on scum here and there, but it's never hardcore bussing.
Darn it, pretty much everybody is a townread! I'll just Vote: Dylan for now, but this isn't that strong.
-
Vote Count 7.4
O (2): RoadRunner7671, Awaclus
Galzria (1): Dylan32
Dylan32 (1): sudgy
Not Voting (3): Galzria, O, SpaceAnemone
With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Day 7 ends Monday, July 3, At 2:00 PM Forum Time.
-
It only works in the slightest because the prominent f.ds mafia players apparently wish to allow it to work. /rant.
They allow it to work by playing well.
Either way I look forward to postgame justifications of "do literally nothing as confirmed townie" as pro-town play.
Well, I did put in a lot of effort early on but there's a limit to how much effort I want to dedicate to this game if nobody's listening to me even when I'm confirmed town and you're confirmed scum. Perhaps it's not optimal, but it's the best I can do.
-
Well, I did put in a lot of effort early on but there's a limit to how much effort I want to dedicate to this game if nobody's listening to me even when I'm confirmed town and you're confirmed scum. Perhaps it's not optimal, but it's the best I can do.
How confirmed is O's scumminess to you? I'm definitely all for listening to a good bit of evidence, but I've missed anything so far that I found really compelling. I do admit to having found the early game really difficult to follow, if that's where your confirmation came!
-
Well, I did put in a lot of effort early on but there's a limit to how much effort I want to dedicate to this game if nobody's listening to me even when I'm confirmed town and you're confirmed scum. Perhaps it's not optimal, but it's the best I can do.
How confirmed is O's scumminess to you? I'm definitely all for listening to a good bit of evidence, but I've missed anything so far that I found really compelling. I do admit to having found the early game really difficult to follow, if that's where your confirmation came!
He said he's trying to win by being anti-town on purpose.
-
Well, I did put in a lot of effort early on but there's a limit to how much effort I want to dedicate to this game if nobody's listening to me even when I'm confirmed town and you're confirmed scum. Perhaps it's not optimal, but it's the best I can do.
How confirmed is O's scumminess to you? I'm definitely all for listening to a good bit of evidence, but I've missed anything so far that I found really compelling. I do admit to having found the early game really difficult to follow, if that's where your confirmation came!
He said he's trying to win by being anti-town on purpose.
Where?
-
Lynching on the basis of lurking is retarded.
Vote:Awaclus
really all the confirmation I needed that Awaclus's mafia persona is a edgier version of my 16 year old self's.
Lynching on the basis of rude, unhelpful one-liners surely won't be some exceedingly pro-town strategy, but I've already stated I put pro-fun before pro-town so at least I'm consistent.
Here you go Space. I even admitted it!
-
Lynching on the basis of lurking is retarded.
Vote:Awaclus
really all the confirmation I needed that Awaclus's mafia persona is a edgier version of my 16 year old self's.
Lynching on the basis of rude, unhelpful one-liners surely won't be some exceedingly pro-town strategy, but I've already stated I put pro-fun before pro-town so at least I'm consistent.
Here you go Space. I even admitted it!
Huh.. well thank you for finding the quote at least!
Is it possible that both you and Awaclus are just clashing over being stubborn?
-
Lynching on the basis of lurking is retarded.
Vote:Awaclus
really all the confirmation I needed that Awaclus's mafia persona is a edgier version of my 16 year old self's.
Lynching on the basis of rude, unhelpful one-liners surely won't be some exceedingly pro-town strategy, but I've already stated I put pro-fun before pro-town so at least I'm consistent.
Here you go Space. I even admitted it!
Huh.. well thank you for finding the quote at least!
Is it possible that both you and Awaclus are just clashing over being stubborn?
I mean it's not like I'm still voting for Awaclus, so I have to admit I think you're missing the mark on this one.
-
I'm super-confused. I wrote a whole post about looking at all the earlier wagons late last night, and I could've sworn I posted it right before #4074.
Looking at my posting history, I'm at least relieved to find I haven't done something stupid like posted it in another game location. I really thought I'd posted it somewhere, though :-(
-
Lynching on the basis of lurking is retarded.
Vote:Awaclus
really all the confirmation I needed that Awaclus's mafia persona is a edgier version of my 16 year old self's.
Lynching on the basis of rude, unhelpful one-liners surely won't be some exceedingly pro-town strategy, but I've already stated I put pro-fun before pro-town so at least I'm consistent.
Here you go Space. I even admitted it!
Huh.. well thank you for finding the quote at least!
Is it possible that both you and Awaclus are just clashing over being stubborn?
Of course he's stubborn, he's scum trying to win the game.
-
Lynching on the basis of lurking is retarded.
Vote:Awaclus
really all the confirmation I needed that Awaclus's mafia persona is a edgier version of my 16 year old self's.
Lynching on the basis of rude, unhelpful one-liners surely won't be some exceedingly pro-town strategy, but I've already stated I put pro-fun before pro-town so at least I'm consistent.
Here you go Space. I even admitted it!
Huh.. well thank you for finding the quote at least!
Is it possible that both you and Awaclus are just clashing over being stubborn?
I mean it's not like I'm still voting for Awaclus, so I have to admit I think you're missing the mark on this one.
You're currently the leading wagon, probably mostly because of the disagreement, which is a little problematic if you're town and can provoke more of us into wanting to lynch you anyway. I'm coming round to the idea that stubborn!town is a narrative that fits you. (I'm used to Awaclus, and I've seen instances where his playstyle works, as well as instances where it just serves to wind town up).
PPE 1
-
Being pro-fun before pro-town isn't a scumtell, it's just not alignment indicative.
I would try to get rereads done, but whenever I try to download the pages here the formatting gets messed up.
-
Being pro-fun before pro-town isn't a scumtell, it's just not alignment indicative.
I would try to get rereads done, but whenever I try to download the pages here the formatting gets messed up.
If you hit the "print" button at the top of the page, it might be easier. I've also had trouble opening the entire thread when my internet connection is bad.
-
Being pro-fun before pro-town isn't a scumtell, it's just not alignment indicative.
But if that's your idea of trying to win the game, then that is a scumtell.
-
Lynching on the basis of lurking is retarded.
Vote:Awaclus
really all the confirmation I needed that Awaclus's mafia persona is a edgier version of my 16 year old self's.
Lynching on the basis of rude, unhelpful one-liners surely won't be some exceedingly pro-town strategy, but I've already stated I put pro-fun before pro-town so at least I'm consistent.
Here you go Space. I even admitted it!
Huh.. well thank you for finding the quote at least!
Is it possible that both you and Awaclus are just clashing over being stubborn?
I mean it's not like I'm still voting for Awaclus, so I have to admit I think you're missing the mark on this one.
You're currently the leading wagon, probably mostly because of the disagreement, which is a little problematic if you're town and can provoke more of us into wanting to lynch you anyway. I'm coming round to the idea that stubborn!town is a narrative that fits you. (I'm used to Awaclus, and I've seen instances where his playstyle works, as well as instances where it just serves to wind town up).
PPE 1
I'm sorry what exactly am I being stubborn about? I have gone days ignoring Awaclus and he did not change his vote or view. I've simply accepted it as reality since there's nothing I can do to change the situation. I haven't been voting Awaclus. I have been contributing to the discussions of the town. I have played mafia as much as I normally can ignoring the votes.
I think you have a favorable view of Awaclus and are trying to shift the narrative to reflect that when it makes literally no sense here. I have not taken an action since day 2 about this issue, there's simply nothing I can do to change his voting style as long as people like you allow this anti-town, anti-fun play style to persist through games.
There is no duality in the stubbornness here. If you think there is, you should suggest a behavior I am being stubborn about and what I can change about it.
Unless you're saying "you're stubborn about Awaclus calling people retarded", then sure, I guess. I just find that oddly hypocritical.
-
Like Space, this is the series of events:
> Friction days 1/2
> Awaclus becomes likely!town and I proceed to scum hunt other people consistently (Faust, Ashersky, You, e for that short period obviously)
> Awaclus continues to vote me, professing that it's for the same original reason
> "oh wow you're both so stubborn to be continuing this"
It's beyond wrong, what you're saying is patently absurd to the point of gas lighting. I have played the game. He has not, substantially. There is a fundamental difference that you ignore.
-
Lynching on the basis of lurking is retarded.
Vote:Awaclus
really all the confirmation I needed that Awaclus's mafia persona is a edgier version of my 16 year old self's.
Lynching on the basis of rude, unhelpful one-liners surely won't be some exceedingly pro-town strategy, but I've already stated I put pro-fun before pro-town so at least I'm consistent.
Here you go Space. I even admitted it!
Huh.. well thank you for finding the quote at least!
Is it possible that both you and Awaclus are just clashing over being stubborn?
I mean it's not like I'm still voting for Awaclus, so I have to admit I think you're missing the mark on this one.
You're currently the leading wagon, probably mostly because of the disagreement, which is a little problematic if you're town and can provoke more of us into wanting to lynch you anyway. I'm coming round to the idea that stubborn!town is a narrative that fits you. (I'm used to Awaclus, and I've seen instances where his playstyle works, as well as instances where it just serves to wind town up).
PPE 1
I'm sorry what exactly am I being stubborn about? I have gone days ignoring Awaclus and he did not change his vote or view. I've simply accepted it as reality since there's nothing I can do to change the situation. I haven't been voting Awaclus. I have been contributing to the discussions of the town. I have played mafia as much as I normally can ignoring the votes.
I think you have a favorable view of Awaclus and are trying to shift the narrative to reflect that when it makes literally no sense here. I have not taken an action since day 2 about this issue, there's simply nothing I can do to change his voting style as long as people like you allow this anti-town, anti-fun play style to persist through games.
There is no duality in the stubbornness here. If you think there is, you should suggest a behavior I am being stubborn about and what I can change about it.
Unless you're saying "you're stubborn about Awaclus calling people retarded", then sure, I guess. I just find that oddly hypocritical.
My playstyle is pro-town and pro-fun.
-
Like Space, this is the series of events:
> Friction days 1/2
> Awaclus becomes likely!town and I proceed to scum hunt other people consistently (Faust, Ashersky, You, e for that short period obviously)
> Awaclus continues to vote me, professing that it's for the same original reason
> "oh wow you're both so stubborn to be continuing this"
It's beyond wrong, what you're saying is patently absurd to the point of gas lighting. I have played the game. He has not, substantially. There is a fundamental difference that you ignore.
I support everything O said here honestly. To characterize O's play in relation to Awaclus as being "mutually stubborn" is ridiculous. O has accepted Awaclus's IC status and then continued to play as if Awaclus isn't here because... What else is he supposed to do?
-
My playstyle is pro-town and pro-fun.
Yeah, you're probably not helping with this right now. How about we try to move the discussion back to the game?
Let's assume O is in fact town, because maybe the thing you keep going back to from the early game could be a mis-read. What do you think of the other possible last-scum-standing candidates?
-
Here's a re-post of what I was trying to post last night. I definitely didn't manage to get it out then, right? This may be the same thing I was trying to post, or an earlier draft... I sometimes work in a text file and then tidy it up in the browser, so this is the text-file version...
Around #1300, Galz was voting LL, and at the same time iguana was voting Galz. That would be quite a lot of early-game bussing if Galz is scum. Actually, from #297 up till #343, both ash and iguana (and nobody else) are voting for Galz. From #429 through to #731, both LL and iguana are on ash. So there is some definite early bussing happening.
Iguana was the next person onto the D1 JR wagon after sudgy. Would two scums be very likely to join together like that, or is it more of a pointer to Dylan being the on-wagon scum for that one?
In D2, iguana is voting for Galz from #1773 up to #2078. He spent part of D1 voting for Galz, and much of the rest bussing ash, till he joined the JR wagon and helped push through that mislynch.
Galz is on the e wagon. I feel like mafia ought to want the SK taken down, so it's odd that LL is the only mafia flip we have on e's wagon. That gives a few extra scum points to RR, Galz and sudgy. Notably, Dylan isn't on that wagon -- he's voting sudgy from #2915 onwards.
For the ash wagon, we have three known scum (LL, iguana and ash himself), and three (or two, depending on perspective!) known town (faust, Jake, me). The final member is sudgy. Maybe that's a townpoint for sudgy, since there's probably a limit to how many of them would get in on the bus, right?
D5 was the me-v-iguana day. Dylan came out on the right side along with RR. O and sudgy were gunning for me, and Galz didn't vote all day.
At the start of D6, Galz went for the sudgy wagon, and it nearly went through. I'd already said that I thought the last scum was one of the two of sudgy and Dylan. If I've been wrong about that, it would be very nice for the last scum to get one of them flipped and then use their town flip to justify lynching the other.
Now in D7, Dylan is voting Galz, though Galz hasn't (yet) voted Dylan in return. I feel like the two of them might be my top prospects for the day, though. I guess all that my ramblings above have done are to parallel Dylan's wagon-counting exercise and come up with similar conclusions; it's definitely not an independent way of looking at the data.
I still need to go back and read relevant sections surrounding these votes, rather than looking just at my vote counts in abstract. Right now it's sleep o'clock though!
-
Let's assume O is in fact town
While we're at it, let's also assume faust was a werewolf because making assumptions we know to be false is productive.
-
My preference for today is probably Dylan or Sudgy. Maybe O?
If Sudgy is town then the remaining Mafia bussed LaLight. I don't feel like they would've done so early on the wagon, instead hoping or pushing a different wagon (like Faust or Sudgy here). But I also don't think they would've waited all the way out like O did. They would want some town points if they felt the wagon was going down and the hammer doesn't exactly buy much.
Dylan best fits that middle ground imo. That said I think that despite my jailing Sudgy he still fits into what I see as most likely for the remaining Mafia.
A) Low on sign up sheet. It's a smaller thing, but based on Ash's and Iguanas statements it still carries some weight.
B) Voting - and intent to voting - are all the places I would expect scum to be. Voting Ashersky was easy. But losing Iguana and then LaLight must have been hard. At those junctures Sudgy was voting Space (late, when his vote could've switched the tide from Iguana), and then Faust (which hit L-1 before I called it out and RR unvoted).
C) If he's a Strongman/RB then my jailing him would've had no effect last night.
So I think I'll stick with vote: Sudgy. I'm willing to listen to other cases here though.
-
You know, given the fact that scum probably has a roleblocker/strongman still alive, Galzria is probably just a named townie at this point. Maybe it would be okay to lynch him? I don't know. The thing is, scum has been consistently killing PRs for the last few nights, so it makes sense for them to keep Galz alive because they would rather kill others.
I've been rereading LaLight but I've been really tired so I haven't seen too much yet. It is really weird how LaLight, Galzria, and O had this big scuffle in D1.
-
Okay, at the beginning of day 2 LaLight is going after Space. It doesn't seem like a bus for some reason.
-
Darn it, just when Galzria seems like scum Lalight votes for him for a bit. I can't tell what I think of Galzria.
-
Some that I've noticed LaLight has done a lot is buddying the townspeople who were getting scumread. He did it with one or two others that I can't remember at the moment, but I do remember him doing it with me a lot.
-
Alright, I have to go now. I'm going to be flying back tomorrow, so I'm not sure if I'll have time to get on then. Maybe at an airport or something. I didn't quite finish rereading LaLight, but I still do find Galzria a bit scummier in the end. There's still a small possibility of him being good for town though so I'm still not sure if I would want to lynch him.
-
Alright, I have to go now. I'm going to be flying back tomorrow, so I'm not sure if I'll have time to get on then.
Are you around for Sunday at least? The deadline is on Monday, and I can already guarantee that I'm not going to be around for the deadline itself because of a choir rehearsal.
What's everyone else's deadline availability looking like? I think RR has posted a VLA from about 2 hours ago to Sunday afternoon, which takes him to Sunday night my time. It would be nice to avoid a panic-lynch, even if we can technically afford a mislynch at this point.
-
Alright, I have to go now. I'm going to be flying back tomorrow, so I'm not sure if I'll have time to get on then.
Are you around for Sunday at least? The deadline is on Monday, and I can already guarantee that I'm not going to be around for the deadline itself because of a choir rehearsal.
What's everyone else's deadline availability looking like? I think RR has posted a VLA from about 2 hours ago to Sunday afternoon, which takes him to Sunday night my time. It would be nice to avoid a panic-lynch, even if we can technically afford a mislynch at this point.
I will be driving 12+ hours starting Sunday afternoon, so I'll probably be home before the deadline, but on the other hand, I will have been driving for a ridiculously long time and might be taking a much needed recovery nap. Don't count on me being around, but if I'm awake and functioning, I'll try to be here to be able to move my vote at least if needed. My preference would be to be done before that though.
-
Why do we think Faust died last night? Mafia should know with relative certainty that he was out of Vig shots, right? Faust was town, Faust confirmed the two people he vigged, they both died..
I suspect I know why Awaclus wasn't shot instead, but to avoid obnoxious retorts I'll list both cases: If I'm scum, it's too risky to shoot Awaclus. If I'm town, might as well keep someone around who will only vote for a town member.
Galzria? Galzria's not as conf!town, possibly more framable. Or Galzria could be scum himself. If I were scum, unless for some bizarre reason I think Faust has a vig shot i'm shooting Galz every time here.
So I'd look in the pool of (Galzria, people trying to lynch Galzria) as the most likely scum pool, with high prejudice towards the people trying to lynch Galzria. So Sudgy and Dylan.
I don't think I want to lynch Galz at any point in the future TBH, so I'd be losing if he's scum and i'm alive.
Vote: Sudgy
My preference is Dylan but since I'm mostly committing to not voting Galzria everI'll join his wagon.
Preferences: Dylan > Sudgy > Roadrunner/Space >> Galzria >>>> Awaclus
-
I suspect I know why Awaclus wasn't shot instead, but to avoid obnoxious retorts I'll list both cases: If I'm scum, it's too risky to shoot Awaclus. If I'm town, might as well keep someone around who will only vote for a town member.
I agree with those, and add that Awaclus isn't really actively playing the game at this stage, so it's not really worth killing him off over someone like faust who's engaged, hunting scum, and might just about have a vig shot. There's enough of a maybe-scummy pool of lynchable players that taking out faust last night and Awaclus tonight (if we do mislynch!) gets rid of both of them at the same time as minimising the town-influence they get to have on discussions in-thread. I think it makes logical sense.
-
Galzria? Galzria's not as conf!town, possibly more framable. Or Galzria could be scum himself. If I were scum, unless for some bizarre reason I think Faust has a vig shot i'm shooting Galz every time here.
This is worth exploring. You seemed to start down that road, but then retreat to thinking that Galz must be town and scumreading people who're interested in lynching him. What if Galz being alive is just evidence of him being scum?
You suggest looking at people trying to lynch Galz, which makes a lot of sense if you think he's our last useful town PR, but not if he's possibly the scum. I said back at #4089 that I think he's one of my top two suspicions for today after looking at voting patterns... I still stand by that reasoning, though I also still need to go back and read the stuff I said I wanted to look again at when I wrote the post.
-
So I just went back over sudgy's claim, and he was draft order #7, so he was relatively early. By the time he claimed though, we already knew that masonic lovers were in the game, so something in slot 6 (UB) was about as safe a claim as anyone who was as close to the top of the claiming order as he was could have had. The only person who claimed slot 3 was scum!Ash who claimed alignment cop, and Ash was a VT and also draft order #12 which is lower than sudgy's. Since it doesn't seem like a Galz wagon is going to happen, I guess I can go back to Vote: sudgy. Plus, if it turns out sudgy is actually town and people are going to insist on lynching me next, I would rather that happen earlier rather than waiting til too close to lylo so that scum can't use that false dichotomy to steal the win. Vote: sudgy
PPE 2
-
So I just went back over sudgy's claim, and he was draft order #7, so he was relatively early. By the time he claimed though, we already knew that masonic lovers were in the game, so something in slot 6 (UB) was about as safe a claim as anyone who was as close to the top of the claiming order as he was could have had. The only person who claimed slot 3 was scum!Ash who claimed alignment cop, and Ash was a VT and also draft order #12 which is lower than sudgy's. Since it doesn't seem like a Galz wagon is going to happen, I guess I can go back to Vote: sudgy. Plus, if it turns out sudgy is actually town and people are going to insist on lynching me next, I would rather that happen earlier rather than waiting til too close to lylo so that scum can't use that false dichotomy to steal the win. Vote: sudgy
PPE 2
*Double the votes, double the confidence.*
-
Vote Count 7.5
O (2): RoadRunner7671, Awaclus
Dylan32 (1): sudgy
sudgy (3): Galzria, O, Dylan32
Not Voting (1): SpaceAnemone
With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Day 7 ends Monday, July 3, At 2:00 PM Forum Time.
-
Crap, my vote was L-1. Completely forgot to check!
-
By the time he claimed though, we already knew that masonic lovers were in the game, so something in slot 6 (UB) was about as safe a claim as anyone who was as close to the top of the claiming order as he was could have had.
Hum.. If this is true, it's something I missed when I was pushing LL over sudgy in D6. Could you provide post refs for things please?
-
Vote: Dylan
-
Galzria? Galzria's not as conf!town, possibly more framable. Or Galzria could be scum himself. If I were scum, unless for some bizarre reason I think Faust has a vig shot i'm shooting Galz every time here.
This is worth exploring. You seemed to start down that road, but then retreat to thinking that Galz must be town and scumreading people who're interested in lynching him. What if Galz being alive is just evidence of him being scum?
You suggest looking at people trying to lynch Galz, which makes a lot of sense if you think he's our last useful town PR, but not if he's possibly the scum. I said back at #4089 that I think he's one of my top two suspicions for today after looking at voting patterns... I still stand by that reasoning, though I also still need to go back and read the stuff I said I wanted to look again at when I wrote the post.
I think Galz is the second most obvTown person here. I think the only reason someone would NK Faust over Galz is to try to play the WIFOM and frame Galzria, or, obviously, if Galzria was the scum he wouldn't NK himself. So thats why I have this seemingly contradictory set of positions.
Mafia almost certainly missed a kill. What do we think caused the missed kill other than Galzria? Because of that, I think it's far more likely that they're trying to set up Galz then Galz being the scum.
-
Galzria? Galzria's not as conf!town, possibly more framable. Or Galzria could be scum himself. If I were scum, unless for some bizarre reason I think Faust has a vig shot i'm shooting Galz every time here.
This is worth exploring. You seemed to start down that road, but then retreat to thinking that Galz must be town and scumreading people who're interested in lynching him. What if Galz being alive is just evidence of him being scum?
You suggest looking at people trying to lynch Galz, which makes a lot of sense if you think he's our last useful town PR, but not if he's possibly the scum. I said back at #4089 that I think he's one of my top two suspicions for today after looking at voting patterns... I still stand by that reasoning, though I also still need to go back and read the stuff I said I wanted to look again at when I wrote the post.
I think Galz is the second most obvTown person here. I think the only reason someone would NK Faust over Galz is to try to play the WIFOM and frame Galzria, or, obviously, if Galzria was the scum he wouldn't NK himself. So thats why I have this seemingly contradictory set of positions.
Mafia almost certainly missed a kill. What do we think caused the missed kill other than Galzria? Because of that, I think it's far more likely that they're trying to set up Galz then Galz being the scum.
What kill would they have missed?
-
Galzria? Galzria's not as conf!town, possibly more framable. Or Galzria could be scum himself. If I were scum, unless for some bizarre reason I think Faust has a vig shot i'm shooting Galz every time here.
This is worth exploring. You seemed to start down that road, but then retreat to thinking that Galz must be town and scumreading people who're interested in lynching him. What if Galz being alive is just evidence of him being scum?
You suggest looking at people trying to lynch Galz, which makes a lot of sense if you think he's our last useful town PR, but not if he's possibly the scum. I said back at #4089 that I think he's one of my top two suspicions for today after looking at voting patterns... I still stand by that reasoning, though I also still need to go back and read the stuff I said I wanted to look again at when I wrote the post.
I think Galz is the second most obvTown person here. I think the only reason someone would NK Faust over Galz is to try to play the WIFOM and frame Galzria, or, obviously, if Galzria was the scum he wouldn't NK himself. So thats why I have this seemingly contradictory set of positions.
Mafia almost certainly missed a kill. What do we think caused the missed kill other than Galzria? Because of that, I think it's far more likely that they're trying to set up Galz then Galz being the scum.
Oh yeah N2 galz jailed Ash. So either Ash was blocked shooting, e was blocked from shooting Ash, or one faction tried to shoot mcmc in case he was bluffing about 100% choosing bullet proof instead of killing. The 3rd option would explain it without needing truthful Galz.
-
By the time he claimed though, we already knew that masonic lovers were in the game, so something in slot 6 (UB) was about as safe a claim as anyone who was as close to the top of the claiming order as he was could have had.
Hum.. If this is true, it's something I missed when I was pushing LL over sudgy in D6. Could you provide post refs for things please?
Eevee (one of the masons) was killed N2, so that's when we knew it was a thing.
Awaclus sets the order for the mass claim here at #2847 (bold added)
This is the order:
JaketheBaseballGod22
sudgy
pingpongsam
SpaceAnemone
Jimmmmm
Dylan32
2.71828......
ashersky
RoadRunner7671
iguanaiguana
LaLight
O
Awaclus
If this list contains people who already claimed and I missed it, I would like them to claim again.
Jake claimed order and not-VT.
Sudgy basically full claims at #2867. (Bold was in the original post)
I'm a VT. I got draft #7 and got too cocky and went for Universal Backup (because it sounded fun and could be possibly be useful).
I think the only real setup info out was the stuff we got from flips and the mcmc and twm claims.
-
Now that I'm rereading his claim, that last part just seems like he was trying to hard to explain it. Like UB isn't one of the roles where anyone would say "Why would you go for that?" so why make a point of rationalizing it? And for the info about no one claiming slot 3, that's in the claim summary posts by faust, so try to find one of those. I think there is one roughly page 125ish, but I don't have time to go back and dig anymore right now.
-
Mafia almost certainly missed a kill. What do we think caused the missed kill other than Galzria? Because of that, I think it's far more likely that they're trying to set up Galz then Galz being the scum.
I think it's totally safe to say that someone missed a kill. And I'm pretty convinced that Galzria is the JK, but we shouldn't forget that it's very possible to be a scum!JK given this set-up. Gaz could have protected ash from an SK kill by JKing him that night, while another scum make the actual NK that night.
-
I've done pretty much a full re-read of D3 (and much of D4) this evening to try to see what openings scum would have had in the claiming exercise. Here's a summary of all the interesting info -- mostly just claim-relevant stuff and anything else that jumped out at me.
At the opening of D3, we've just seen Eevee's death and his Masonic Lover flip. Pretty soon, Galz and Faust come out as JK and 2-shot vig respectively. Their stories tie together very well, and now we've seen faust's flip, so we know he's town at least. I believe faust and Galz are the only two players to have claimed slots/draft placings before the start of the claiming process, which was ~200 posts into D3. [Update: PPS had also said he went for restless sheeper].
#2682 is a nice wifomy post from Galz about how he would have sat on his vig-read of faust had he been scum.
#2740 is a piece of logic from ash that may also be wifomy, but he seems to be scumreading Galz for changing JK targets between N1 and N2 because a town player ought to have assumed faust was a scum faction and kept jailing him, whereas in fact Galz claims to have jailed ash. It feels like an odd way for scum!ash to distance himself from a potential scum!Galz, though.. seems more like a crafted scumread to sew doubt around Galz himself.
#2847 Awaclus posts his claim order, which is
JaketheBaseballGod22
sudgy
pingpongsam
SpaceAnemone
Jimmmmm
Dylan32
2.71828......
ashersky
RoadRunner7671
iguanaiguana
LaLight
O
Awaclus
#2858: Jake: "I got the #17 draft position, and I am Not a VT"
#2867: Sudgy: "I'm a VT. I got draft #7 and got too cocky and went for Universal Backup (because it sounded fun and could be possibly be useful)."
#2881: Space: "I had draft position #18, and I'm a VT."
#2885: Jimmmmm: "I have a few pages to catch up on (including all this claiming business. Will do tomorrow." -- this immediately gets him a wagon of faust, PPS, LL, Jake and RR. Seems like a wagon scum might want to be on; LL was, and RR is still an unknown.
#2915: Dylan: "So I'm inclined to believe the claims until we have other evidence or claims that would contradict them. However, I do know of at least one possibility of how the claims could go (other than a straight up counterclaim) that would lead me to strongly believe that someone specific is lying. I don't want to say more til after claims are done for obvious reasons." -- Did he ever go back to that? I can't recall...
#2918: Dylan "I am a VT and got draft position #8."
#2923: faust: "I shot sudgy N1 FWIW, but Galzria stopped that from being a thing."
#2938: Jimmmmm: "Non-VT" (Claimed draft position 9 at #2943 after prompting by Dylan).
#2958: e: "VT. Pretty sure we weren't supposed to claim our bid position."
#2963: ash: "Not VT. Is there consensus on when you what our number?"
#2965: RR: "VT".
#2966: iguana: "11- VT"
#2967: ash: "12"
#2968: LL: "5, VT"
#2969: O: "21, VT"
#2970: Awaclus: "10, VT"
#2991: e: "Bid order was 19. Slot I bid for was 13"
#2997: O: "Galzria and MCMC both won M19 if that's relevant. Both have already claimed though."
#2999: RR: "I was position 19 and I bid on slot 13"
#3024: Jake: "Alright so I am the Tracker. I bid on slot #12. N1 I tracked Gkrieg but he died that night. N2 I tracked Ashersky who was jailed. I'm pretty sure I have the worst luck over the last two games." -- did we ever think to check with Jake that his result was definitely consistent with ash having been jailed and not him being a good who wasn't trying to make the NK or anything? It might have helped us distinguish between strategies.
#3056: RR: "I can tell I'm gonna have to fight for my life to get 2.7 lynched then fight for my life again to convince you guys this isn't a scum mishap. I've never been counterclaimed before." -- I think this is townpoints for RR, because he seems to be expecting e to flip mafia rather than SK, which is exaclty what most of us were thinking at the time.. but I'm not sure scum!RR would think that way, and he's not even covering the possibility of e flipping town, which a scum might fear.
#3064: RR: "Would it help if I said my formidable mafia team, favorite game and townies that got me to slot 19?" -- again, I think this kind of appeal is more likely to have come from town than scum.
#3083: sudgy comfirms slot 6.
#3084: Space: "I went for slot 12."
#3094: PPS: "Way back when I revealed my role I claimed I shot straight for it in Slot 2. I was #15 in the draft position."
#3096: Dylan: "To repeat, VT, bid #8. I bid on slot 13 and did not get it."
#3098: Galz: "Not calling your claim out here - but does anybody from top 6 really go for slot 13? Seems crazy to me."
#3108: Jimmmmm: "Well I guess enough is on the table that there's no point holding on to this. Yes, I'm the other Mason. I was actually #3 in the draft; Eevee was #9."
#3109: Jimmmmm: "Eevee also bid for Masons, so no extra info there."
#3191: TWM: "So who got slot 13? We have three people saying they tried for it, but didn't get it. If Dylan is telling the truth it has to be someone with a pick above number 8."
#3220: TWM: "I was bid order position #13 and went for slot #10."
#3234: RR: "How about we lynch e today and ashersky tomorrow?" -- possible not-wanting-a-partner-lynch? Or just hoping not to get lynched himself?
#3274: e: "I did win slot 13 and chose convert SK to survivor." and "I had to guess for a dead townies role. And I almost got away with it."
#3284: e: "I was bid order 6, slot 13"
#3289: e points out that only the SK could get the "convert SK to..." roles. I have only just realised now that that means scum had an incentive to work out who was in slot 13 because they all know that that's where the SK went, and they want rid of the SK. I feel slow! That is actually slight evidence in favour of a scum deciding that slot 13 is a relatively safe claim because the SK probably realises it's outing themselves to scum to claim it, so won't counterclaim.
#3341: mcmc: "Lalight and space feel very scummy to me. Space always feels scummy to me so not as strong as my feelings on lalight." -- lest I be accused of cherrypicking only the interesting info that makes me look good :-P
#3343: mcmc: "Oh I was draft position 4 and went for the hammer hero"
#3352: faust: "Also we probably shouldn't believe what e said about the content of slot 13." -- true, but if the sk did ge it, there are several SK-only roles that can have found their way in there with decent probability, so I still think it's likely that scum knew that the SK had that slot.
-- D4 --
#3481: Galz: "I jailed one of Ashersky, mcmc, or my highest scum read last night. I'm guessing Jake tracked me (I would in his position)"
#3455: O: "I also bid for slot 11, being so low in the draft, and did not receive it."
#3472: Galz: "I jailed Ashersky last night"
#3524-3528: Little exchange between RR & LL. RR doesn't vote for the entirity of D4, so he doesn't show up on my wagons map, but he's pushing quite a lot for faust over ash.
#3560: sudgy: "Regarding iguana vs space, I have a gut townread on space, so would probably rather lynch iguana. I'll look more into them when the decision needs to be made."
Analysis/thoughts in another post or two soon (hopefully tonight, though it appears to be way after 2am already!), but posting this in the meantime in case it helps anyone else with their thinking.
-
Galz being alive points to either scum!Galz, or a strongman-scum being left, or a risky wifom strategy on the part of scum. If it's a strongman scum, we're probably looking for someone whose claim was a "safe" VT, i.e. someone who knew their claimed slot wasn't at risk of being counterclaimed, since they must have picked up the strongman shot at its source in slot 8.
Sudgy's claim wasn't safe at the time he made it unless he knows he went for that slot and didn't get it, because it's a really unsafe one to claim as cover for something else, because he knew at the time he claimed it that someone else had won the Masonic Lovers role, but not that they were necessarily above him in the order. So if he's scum, he bid on something in that slot and didn't get it. If he bid on strongman and won it, the safer slots to claim were things like slot 1, where he definitely knows someone above him in the order had taken it.
Dylan's case on sudgy seems to miss out all the reasoning to do with claiming order, or to do with the fact that scums needed to claim from slots that someone above them in the preference order had already taken in order to hide safely as a fake VT. As for Dylan himself, though, his claim is not really "safe", because by the time he claims, we haven't had confirmation that anyone above him on the ordering had taken slot 13.
RR went head-to-head with someone that scum!RR can't have known wasn't town, so I think that means he's telling the truth about his bidding order at least. He even seems to have picked a slot number that nobody higher in the ranking order had already claimed by the time he made his claim, so again, he didn't opt for a "safe" claim at all. I do award him a few scumpoints for having followed e and ash's lead and failing to claimed his bidding order in the first round of the claiming exercise, though.
O was very low down on Awaclus's list because of Awaclus's preexisting scumread on him, so that's actually really not helpful. His claim was totally safe because he didn't even claim his slot till D4, but even if he had claimed earlier, the particular slot he was claiming had been taken by Galz even before the claiming exercise had started.
Finally, I note that my own claim was safe by the time I made it, because Jake was above me in Awaclus's list and was also above me in the draft order, and he got the spot I'd bid on.
I need better conclusions than this, but I'm getting too tired to keep the arguments in my head straight, so that can wait till the morning.
-
@Dylan, could you please clarify exactly what you meant by the following post from back in D3? I haven't managed to find any follow-through on it, and it seems ominous enough that I think there should have been further mention of it somewhere:
Seems like quite a bit has happened. So I'm inclined to believe the claims until we have other evidence or claims that would contradict them. However, I do know of at least one possibility of how the claims could go (other than a straight up counterclaim) that would lead me to strongly believe that someone specific is lying. I don't want to say more til after claims are done for obvious reasons.
-
Vote: Dylan this is L-1
Reasons:
1. Spaces claim analysis does seem to give Sudgy towncred, Sudgy's claim doesn't make perfect sense under the assumption that remaining scum is Strongman/RB
2. Original reason for Sudgy > Dylan was that a Sudgy lynch looked likelier to push through, and Galz was on it. Now it seems reasonably likely that either lynch could be pushed through and as I already stated I prefer Dylan.
-
Get Dylan is a good plan to me.
-
@Dylan, could you please clarify exactly what you meant by the following post from back in D3? I haven't managed to find any follow-through on it, and it seems ominous enough that I think there should have been further mention of it somewhere:
Seems like quite a bit has happened. So I'm inclined to believe the claims until we have other evidence or claims that would contradict them. However, I do know of at least one possibility of how the claims could go (other than a straight up counterclaim) that would lead me to strongly believe that someone specific is lying. I don't want to say more til after claims are done for obvious reasons.
That was during the mass claim, and based on the slot Galz claimed and the lack of claims on the roleblocker slot, I was thinking he could have taken roleblocker and fakeclaimed jailkeeper. It is still *technically* possible, but I accepted that that probably wasn't the most likely situation, so I abandoned that train of thought. The more I thought about it after saying that, I realized there were more assumptions that had to be made than I thought initially. Later on at one point, I did say there was one other thing I wanted to check, and that was it. I went back to my note in my personal QT, but I remembered why I had been ignoring it. And anyway, if he could get it, why wouldn't scum go ahead and try for JK over roleblocker if possible. It's better for town cred and can do the same job for them.
-
Get Dylan is a good plan to me.
No, a good plan would be to get scum, which you won't do by getting me.
-
Vote: Dylan this is L-1
Reasons:
1. Spaces claim analysis does seem to give Sudgy towncred, Sudgy's claim doesn't make perfect sense under the assumption that remaining scum is Strongman/RB
2. Original reason for Sudgy > Dylan was that a Sudgy lynch looked likelier to push through, and Galz was on it. Now it seems reasonably likely that either lynch could be pushed through and as I already stated I prefer Dylan.
You ignore that right below that, Space points out that my claim wasn't safe either, so I should get the same towncred sudgy does by that logic.
-
Vote: Dylan this is L-1
Reasons:
1. Spaces claim analysis does seem to give Sudgy towncred, Sudgy's claim doesn't make perfect sense under the assumption that remaining scum is Strongman/RB
2. Original reason for Sudgy > Dylan was that a Sudgy lynch looked likelier to push through, and Galz was on it. Now it seems reasonably likely that either lynch could be pushed through and as I already stated I prefer Dylan.
You ignore that right below that, Space points out that my claim wasn't safe either, so I should get the same towncred sudgy does by that logic.
substantially less by the order
-
Vote: Dylan this is L-1
Reasons:
1. Spaces claim analysis does seem to give Sudgy towncred, Sudgy's claim doesn't make perfect sense under the assumption that remaining scum is Strongman/RB
2. Original reason for Sudgy > Dylan was that a Sudgy lynch looked likelier to push through, and Galz was on it. Now it seems reasonably likely that either lynch could be pushed through and as I already stated I prefer Dylan.
You ignore that right below that, Space points out that my claim wasn't safe either, so I should get the same towncred sudgy does by that logic.
Why doesn't his claim make sense? He claimed targeting a role in a slot that already had a role confirmed from it. Note that sudgy didn't claim the slot he targeted. Only the role. He didn't claim slot until later, which left him the flexibility to change it later if need be.
PPE 1
-
Get Dylan is a good plan to me.
No, a good plan would be to get scum, which you won't do by getting me.
I mean, that makes some sense
-
Vote: Dylan this is L-1
Reasons:
1. Spaces claim analysis does seem to give Sudgy towncred, Sudgy's claim doesn't make perfect sense under the assumption that remaining scum is Strongman/RB
2. Original reason for Sudgy > Dylan was that a Sudgy lynch looked likelier to push through, and Galz was on it. Now it seems reasonably likely that either lynch could be pushed through and as I already stated I prefer Dylan.
You ignore that right below that, Space points out that my claim wasn't safe either, so I should get the same towncred sudgy does by that logic.
substantially less by the order
Why? More claims have happened by the time I claimed, and yet I still chose to claim one that wasn't safe? Why would lying scum me do that?
-
Vote: Dylan this is L-1
Reasons:
1. Spaces claim analysis does seem to give Sudgy towncred, Sudgy's claim doesn't make perfect sense under the assumption that remaining scum is Strongman/RB
2. Original reason for Sudgy > Dylan was that a Sudgy lynch looked likelier to push through, and Galz was on it. Now it seems reasonably likely that either lynch could be pushed through and as I already stated I prefer Dylan.
You ignore that right below that, Space points out that my claim wasn't safe either, so I should get the same towncred sudgy does by that logic.
substantially less by the order
Why? More claims have happened by the time I claimed, and yet I still chose to claim one that wasn't safe? Why would lying scum me do that?
Whos after you?
Awaclus -- I guess
Me -- I heavily hinted I was VT all of day 1
LaLight, Ashersky, Iguana -- hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
e - I guess
Roadrunner - I guess
-
Urgh, am I really going to have to do full re-reads of everyone left alive? Who has time for that? Luckily the other things I really have to do this afternoon are listening to a bunch of choir repertoire (which stacks nicely with sitting around on the internet anyway), a load of house-cleaning, and going for a run... so the pressure for f.ds procrastination is really strong :-P
First, though, let me get one other thing out of my system. What's the chance of Awaclus not being a true IC? Has anyone else out there worried about it enough to have gone and reviewed all the discussion of possibilities for bus-driving and other role-based interactions now that we've had so many flips and know whose words we should have trusted? I hope this is just my paranoia thinking out loud, or my poor memory forgetting that it's already been covered properly in a discussion I haven't re-read recently enough, but I'd appreciate it if one or two other people would report back on that front -- I feel like it's a less demanding task to delegate than a full re-read, at least! Any takers? :-)
-
Urgh, am I really going to have to do full re-reads of everyone left alive?
No, you just have to vote for O.
-
Urgh, am I really going to have to do full re-reads of everyone left alive?
No, you just have to vote for O.
I'm re-reading him now on the grounds that if we don't lynch him, we don't get our IC back in the game. Which was what led me to wonder how definitely you're our IC...
-
IIRC faust made that consideration while he was still alive and concluded that it was not impossible but practically extremely unlikely that I was scum.
-
I think the only way he isn't IC is if e happpened to bus drive him and a townie the one night twm hid behind him.
-
Phone posting. Pardon spelling
-
Vote: Dylan this is L-1
Reasons:
1. Spaces claim analysis does seem to give Sudgy towncred, Sudgy's claim doesn't make perfect sense under the assumption that remaining scum is Strongman/RB
2. Original reason for Sudgy > Dylan was that a Sudgy lynch looked likelier to push through, and Galz was on it. Now it seems reasonably likely that either lynch could be pushed through and as I already stated I prefer Dylan.
You ignore that right below that, Space points out that my claim wasn't safe either, so I should get the same towncred sudgy does by that logic.
substantially less by the order
Why? More claims have happened by the time I claimed, and yet I still chose to claim one that wasn't safe? Why would lying scum me do that?
Whos after you?
Awaclus -- I guess
Me -- I heavily hinted I was VT all of day 1
LaLight, Ashersky, Iguana -- hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
e - I guess
Roadrunner - I guess
e verified he was above me and got slot 13 at the end of the e vs rr thing. So my claim wasn't safe until long after the Mara claim was actually over.
-
Mass* claim
-
Urgh, am I really going to have to do full re-reads of everyone left alive? Who has time for that? Luckily the other things I really have to do this afternoon are listening to a bunch of choir repertoire (which stacks nicely with sitting around on the internet anyway), a load of house-cleaning, and going for a run... so the pressure for f.ds procrastination is really strong :-P
First, though, let me get one other thing out of my system. What's the chance of Awaclus not being a true IC? Has anyone else out there worried about it enough to have gone and reviewed all the discussion of possibilities for bus-driving and other role-based interactions now that we've had so many flips and know whose words we should have trusted? I hope this is just my paranoia thinking out loud, or my poor memory forgetting that it's already been covered properly in a discussion I haven't re-read recently enough, but I'd appreciate it if one or two other people would report back on that front -- I feel like it's a less demanding task to delegate than a full re-read, at least! Any takers? :-)
We have
1. No claimed protective townroles outside of Galzria, who is town if Awaclus is scum
2. No real way to doctor/protect a hider in the first place, since action priority etc. I don't believe doctor/JKing Awaclus does anything for TWM either.
So... One shot commuter? In the same slot as Restless Sheeper? (and if Awaclus is scum, we have Galzria and Jake confirmed town getting 2/3 of the rando slots. Did someone else confirm the third random slot?)
TLDR not seeing it.
-
Urgh, am I really going to have to do full re-reads of everyone left alive? Who has time for that? Luckily the other things I really have to do this afternoon are listening to a bunch of choir repertoire (which stacks nicely with sitting around on the internet anyway), a load of house-cleaning, and going for a run... so the pressure for f.ds procrastination is really strong :-P
First, though, let me get one other thing out of my system. What's the chance of Awaclus not being a true IC? Has anyone else out there worried about it enough to have gone and reviewed all the discussion of possibilities for bus-driving and other role-based interactions now that we've had so many flips and know whose words we should have trusted? I hope this is just my paranoia thinking out loud, or my poor memory forgetting that it's already been covered properly in a discussion I haven't re-read recently enough, but I'd appreciate it if one or two other people would report back on that front -- I feel like it's a less demanding task to delegate than a full re-read, at least! Any takers? :-)
We have
1. No claimed protective townroles outside of Galzria, who is town if Awaclus is scum
2. No real way to doctor/protect a hider in the first place, since action priority etc. I don't believe doctor/JKing Awaclus does anything for TWM either.
So... One shot commuter? In the same slot as Restless Sheeper? (and if Awaclus is scum, we have Galzria and Jake confirmed town getting 2/3 of the rando slots. Did someone else confirm the third random slot?)
TLDR not seeing it.
Did you even read my post? E rr and I all claimed going for the 3rd random slot. e got it and flipped bus driver.
-
And why would we need a protective role for the hider anyway? He could hide behind any town and live.
-
Now that I'm rereading his claim, that last part just seems like he was trying to hard to explain it. Like UB isn't one of the roles where anyone would say "Why would you go for that?" so why make a point of rationalizing it? And for the info about no one claiming slot 3, that's in the claim summary posts by faust, so try to find one of those. I think there is one roughly page 125ish, but I don't have time to go back and dig anymore right now.
I've never heard any discussion of UB and have no idea how good or bad it is. I still don't know.
Vote: Dylan this is L-1
Reasons:
1. Spaces claim analysis does seem to give Sudgy towncred, Sudgy's claim doesn't make perfect sense under the assumption that remaining scum is Strongman/RB
2. Original reason for Sudgy > Dylan was that a Sudgy lynch looked likelier to push through, and Galz was on it. Now it seems reasonably likely that either lynch could be pushed through and as I already stated I prefer Dylan.
You ignore that right below that, Space points out that my claim wasn't safe either, so I should get the same towncred sudgy does by that logic.
Why doesn't his claim make sense? He claimed targeting a role in a slot that already had a role confirmed from it. Note that sudgy didn't claim the slot he targeted. Only the role. He didn't claim slot until later, which left him the flexibility to change it later if need be.
PPE 1
How in the world can you go for a role but not go for its slot? You can't try for a random slot hoping that the role is in there.
I'm somewhat around until deadline now. I have some family stuff today and I have to sleep tonight, but there's nothing else really.
I'm liking Dylan more now because he seems to be flailing.
-
Urgh, am I really going to have to do full re-reads of everyone left alive? Who has time for that? Luckily the other things I really have to do this afternoon are listening to a bunch of choir repertoire (which stacks nicely with sitting around on the internet anyway), a load of house-cleaning, and going for a run... so the pressure for f.ds procrastination is really strong :-P
First, though, let me get one other thing out of my system. What's the chance of Awaclus not being a true IC? Has anyone else out there worried about it enough to have gone and reviewed all the discussion of possibilities for bus-driving and other role-based interactions now that we've had so many flips and know whose words we should have trusted? I hope this is just my paranoia thinking out loud, or my poor memory forgetting that it's already been covered properly in a discussion I haven't re-read recently enough, but I'd appreciate it if one or two other people would report back on that front -- I feel like it's a less demanding task to delegate than a full re-read, at least! Any takers? :-)
We have
1. No claimed protective townroles outside of Galzria, who is town if Awaclus is scum
2. No real way to doctor/protect a hider in the first place, since action priority etc. I don't believe doctor/JKing Awaclus does anything for TWM either.
So... One shot commuter? In the same slot as Restless Sheeper? (and if Awaclus is scum, we have Galzria and Jake confirmed town getting 2/3 of the rando slots. Did someone else confirm the third random slot?)
TLDR not seeing it.
Did you even read my post? E rr and I all claimed going for the 3rd random slot. e got it and flipped bus driver.
Right, so we have no real confirmation that the remaining scum couldn't have the third random slot instead of SK!e. Either way it's unlikely.
And we choose to believe that town!TWM is truthful when he says he hid behind Awaclus. So i was checking for ways that town!TWM could hide behind scum!Awaclus and still love.
-
Right, so we have no real confirmation that the remaining scum couldn't have the third random slot instead of SK!e. Either way it's unlikely.
And we choose to believe that town!TWM is truthful when he says he hid behind Awaclus. So i was checking for ways that town!TWM could hide behind scum!Awaclus and still love.
If you're thinking like that, doesn't it imply scum!Galz anyway? We know e can't have gotten his bus-driving from slot 6 because of the masons, which Jimmmmm said he got from that slot. So it has to have been one of the random ones. Jake claimed to have picked up Tracker from slot 12, so if e didn't get his bus-driving from 13, then it has to have come from 11, which is the slot Galz claims.
I'm pretty certain that town!TWM thinks he hid behind Awaclus on N1. And looking back through Robz's rules clarifications, his words at #2592 kind of imply that the situation hadn't come up already in the game so far, though I realise that's more info than he'd probably like us to be taking from that post. Anyway, I think I'm comfortable leaving Awaclus as IC for another day, unless anyone else has come up with anything?
-
I'm still quite torn. I thought I'd drop some useful stuff in-thread while I deliberate. Re-reading is hard and long :-(
Voting history for Dylan
Day 1: Jake (#292), TWM (#436), JR (#883)
Day 2: Space (#1765), sudgy (#2054), Andrew (#2303), Not Voting (#2305), sudgy (#2359), Cuzz (#2422)
Day 3: sudgy (#2915)
Day 4: No votes
Day 5: iguana (#3747)
Day 6: sudgy (#3793), LL (#3996)
Day 7: sudgy (#4050), Not Voting (#4057), Galz (#4064), sudgy (#4102)
Voting history for sudgy
Day 1: TWM (#508), JR (#979), TWM (#1055), JR (#1186)
Day 2: TWM (#1584), Not Voting (#1950), Andrew (#2287), Cuzz (#2405)
Day 3: ash (#2795), e (#3244)
Day 4: ash (#3441)
Day 5: Space (#3765)
Day 6: faust (#3877)
Day 7: Dylan (#4069)
Voting history for RR
Day 1: mcmc (#1298)
Day 2: Andrew (#2478), Not Voting (#2486), Andrew (#2522), Not Voting (#2528)
Day 3: iguana (#2637), Jimmmmm (#2894), Not Voting (#2939), e (#3005)
Day 4: No votes
Day 5: iguana (#3740)
Day 6: faust (#3921), Not Voting (#3969), LL (#3985)
Day 7: O (#4059), Dylan (#4107)
Voting history for O
Day 1: Not Voting (#260), RR (#358), Awaclus (#678), LL (#1221), Not Voting (#1256), Awaclus (#1345)
Day 2: faust (#1539), Space (#1600), faust (#1931), ash (#2151), Andrew (#2286), faust (#2445), Andrew (#2477), Not Voting (#2567)
Day 3: faust (#2664), Not Voting (#2668), ash (#2721)
Day 4: ash (#3412), Not Voting (#3473)
Day 5: Space (#3612), faust (#3684), Space (#3691)
Day 6: Space (#3861), faust (#3966), LL (#4020)
Day 7: sudgy (#4099), Dylan (#4117)
Voting history for Galz
Day 1: JR (#571), Not Voting (#1140), LL (#1207)
Day 2: Dylan (#1755), Andrew (#2557), Not Voting (#2568)
Day 3: ash (#2794), Not Voting (#3085), e (#3119)
Day 4: Not Voting (#3555)
Day 5: No votes
Day 6: sudgy (#3783)
Day 7: sudgy (#4091)
Voting history for Space
Day 1: LL (#144), mcmc (#974), JR (#1382)
Day 2: Cuzz (#2432)
Day 3: e (#3315)
Day 4: iguana (#3475), ash (#3549)
Day 5: iguana (#3617)
Day 6: LL (#3860)
Day 7: No votes
Voting history for Awaclus
Day 1: e (#461), O (#698)
Day 2: O (#1545)
Day 3: No votes
Day 4: No votes
Day 5: O (#3682), iguana (#3768)
Day 6: sudgy (#3870)
Day 7: O (#4065)
-
Vote Count 7.6
O (1): Awaclus
Dylan32 (3): sudgy, RoadRunner7671, O
sudgy (2): Galzria, Dylan32
Not Voting (1): SpaceAnemone
With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Day 7 ends Monday, July 3, At 2:00 PM Forum Time.
-
Here's another way of looking at the votes. I wanted to see whether any of the bussing scums had voted for any of our remaining players in a bussy sort of way. Sadly they don't seem to be making life so easy for me, but I thought I'd post a summary anyway. Actually, I'll post the whole thing inside a code box; if you want to read it, past the content into a post and then preview it to get a coloured-up version :-)
The weirdest thing I've spotted is that the only people LL didn't vote for are: gkrieg, Calamitas, Eevee, PPS, Iguana, Cuzz, Jake (and himself). Everyone else got a vote from LL at some stage in the game. It's like he went round purposefully trying to make sure he'd planted a vote on everyone to confuse wagon-gazing!
As for the rest:
- Galz gets a number of early-game votes from scum. I think that's mostly indicative of him having been an active early-game player, though.
- Faust gets a couple of later scum votes. I'm leaving the already-dead players in the code box below this because I figure it's helpful to have a known-town baseline for comparison.
- LL got zero known-mafia votes for the whole game, which is kind of interesting. Awaclus's vote-receiving pattern isn't very interesting at all.
- I have the same number of scum votes as Galz, but mostly from LL, who knows I read him reasonably well, and iguana because of TWM's hiding.
- The fact that LL is the only known scum on the e wagon is still a bit troubling, because I expect scum to want rid of the SK. Unless maybe RR is one of their own and they didn't want to risk having us go after him if e flipped town? That's something I hadn't considered. RR was on the e wagon himself, but he'd have had less choice in the matter.
- Dylan has more days of receiving no votes than anyone other than Awaclus. The only scum vote he has is a single push from LL.
- RR also has a single LL vote. The faust vote at #3885 stands out a little for some reason. I want to follow up on stuff RR said to bring that on.
- Iguana wasn't bussed by any known scum, but with Dylan and RR on his lynch wagon, a bus is still possible.
- O's votes don't particularly stand out either. He also got a D6 boop from LL.
- sudgy looks a lot like the others, but with an added Dylan tunnel, and more interest from other people D6.
[b]Vote-receiving history for [color=limegreen]JR[/color][/b]
Day 1: [color=#AAA][color=limegreen]Jake[/color] (#332), [color=limegreen]faust[/color] (#513), [color=black]Galz[/color] (#571), [color=purple]e[/color] (#876), [color=black]Dylan[/color] (#883), [color=limegreen]TWM[/color] (#886), [color=limegreen]Eevee[/color] (#902), [color=black]sudgy[/color] (#979), [color=red]iguana[/color] (#991), [color=limegreen]gkrieg[/color] (#1015), [color=red]LL[/color] (#1155), [color=limegreen]Jake[/color] (#1168), [color=black]sudgy[/color] (#1186), [color=red]iguana[/color] (#1319), [color=black]Space[/color] (#1382), [color=limegreen]TWM[/color] (#1396), [color=limegreen]mcmc[/color] (#1400)[/color]
[b]Vote-receiving history for [color=black]Galz[/color][/b]
Day 1: [color=#AAA][color=red]ash[/color] (#157), [color=limegreen]mcmc[/color] (#160), [color=red]iguana[/color] (#297), [color=red]iguana[/color] (#1253), [color=limegreen]JR[/color] (#1296), [color=limegreen]faust[/color] (#1386)[/color]
Day 2: [color=#AAA][color=red]iguana[/color] (#1773)[/color]
Day 3: [color=#AAA][color=limegreen]faust[/color] (#2678), [color=red]LL[/color] (#2692)[/color]
Day 4: [color=#AAA]No votes[/color]
Day 5: [color=#AAA]No votes[/color]
Day 6: [color=#AAA]No votes[/color]
Day 7: [color=#AAA][color=black]Dylan[/color] (#4064)[/color]
[b]Vote-receiving history for [color=limegreen]gkrieg[/color][/b]
Day 1: [color=#AAA][color=limegreen]Cuzz[/color] (#220), [color=limegreen]mcmc[/color] (#241), [color=limegreen]Andrew[/color] (#1035)[/color]
[b]Vote-receiving history for [color=limegreen]TWM[/color][/b]
Day 1: [color=#AAA][color=limegreen]JR[/color] (#337), [color=red]ash[/color] (#343), [color=limegreen]mcmc[/color] (#370), [color=black]Dylan[/color] (#436), [color=black]sudgy[/color] (#508), [color=purple]e[/color] (#706), [color=limegreen]mcmc[/color] (#713), [color=black]sudgy[/color] (#1055)[/color]
Day 2: [color=#AAA][color=black]sudgy[/color] (#1584)[/color]
Day 3: [color=#AAA][color=limegreen]TWM[/color] (#2655)[/color]
[b]Vote-receiving history for [color=red]Calamitas[/color][/b]
Day 1: [color=#AAA]No votes[/color]
[b]Vote-receiving history for [color=limegreen]Eevee[/color][/b]
Day 1: [color=#AAA]No votes[/color]
Day 2: [color=#AAA]No votes[/color]
[b]Vote-receiving history for [color=limegreen]faust[/color][/b]
Day 1: [color=#AAA]No votes[/color]
Day 2: [color=#AAA][color=black]O[/color] (#1539), [color=black]O[/color] (#1931), [color=black]O[/color] (#2445)[/color]
Day 3: [color=#AAA][color=black]O[/color] (#2664)[/color]
Day 4: [color=#AAA][color=red]ash[/color] (#3409)[/color]
Day 5: [color=#AAA][color=black]O[/color] (#3684)[/color]
Day 6: [color=#AAA][color=black]sudgy[/color] (#3877), [color=red]LL[/color] (#3919), [color=black]RR[/color] (#3921), [color=black]O[/color] (#3966)[/color]
[b]Vote-receiving history for [color=red]LL[/color][/b]
Day 1: [color=#AAA][color=black]Space[/color] (#144), [color=purple]e[/color] (#171), [color=limegreen]Jake[/color] (#239), [color=limegreen]TWM[/color] (#272), [color=black]Galz[/color] (#1207), [color=limegreen]PPS[/color] (#1211), [color=limegreen]Eevee[/color] (#1219), [color=black]O[/color] (#1221)[/color]
Day 2: [color=#AAA]No votes[/color]
Day 3: [color=#AAA]No votes[/color]
Day 4: [color=#AAA][color=limegreen]Jake[/color] (#3405)[/color]
Day 5: [color=#AAA]No votes[/color]
Day 6: [color=#AAA][color=limegreen]faust[/color] (#3819), [color=black]Space[/color] (#3860), [color=limegreen]faust[/color] (#3930), [color=black]RR[/color] (#3985), [color=black]Dylan[/color] (#3996), [color=black]O[/color] (#4020)[/color]
[b]Vote-receiving history for [color=limegreen]Awaclus[/color][/b]
Day 1: [color=#AAA][color=black]O[/color] (#678), [color=limegreen]TWM[/color] (#692), [color=red]LL[/color] (#884), [color=limegreen]TWM[/color] (#1343), [color=black]O[/color] (#1345), [color=limegreen]Eevee[/color] (#1390)[/color]
Day 2: [color=#AAA]No votes[/color]
Day 3: [color=#AAA]No votes[/color]
Day 4: [color=#AAA]No votes[/color]
Day 5: [color=#AAA]No votes[/color]
Day 6: [color=#AAA]No votes[/color]
Day 7: [color=#AAA]No votes[/color]
[b]Vote-receiving history for [color=black]Space[/color][/b]
Day 1: [color=#AAA][color=red]LL[/color] (#142)[/color]
Day 2: [color=#AAA][color=red]LL[/color] (#1583), [color=black]O[/color] (#1600), [color=limegreen]Eevee[/color] (#1650), [color=black]Dylan[/color] (#1765), [color=limegreen]Cuzz[/color] (#2419)[/color]
Day 3: [color=#AAA]No votes[/color]
Day 4: [color=#AAA][color=red]iguana[/color] (#3434)[/color]
Day 5: [color=#AAA][color=black]O[/color] (#3612), [color=red]iguana[/color] (#3620), [color=red]LL[/color] (#3646), [color=black]O[/color] (#3691), [color=black]sudgy[/color] (#3765)[/color]
Day 6: [color=#AAA][color=black]O[/color] (#3861)[/color]
Day 7: [color=#AAA]No votes[/color]
[b]Vote-receiving history for [color=purple]e[/color][/b]
Day 1: [color=#AAA][color=limegreen]Andrew[/color] (#186), [color=limegreen]Awaclus[/color] (#461)[/color]
Day 2: [color=#AAA][color=limegreen]TWM[/color] (#2385)[/color]
Day 3: [color=#AAA][color=limegreen]TWM[/color] (#2620), [color=limegreen]TWM[/color] (#2853), [color=black]RR[/color] (#3005), [color=limegreen]TWM[/color] (#3014), [color=red]LL[/color] (#3023), [color=limegreen]faust[/color] (#3116), [color=limegreen]PPS[/color] (#3118), [color=black]Galz[/color] (#3119), [color=black]sudgy[/color] (#3244), [color=limegreen]TWM[/color] (#3272), [color=purple]e[/color] (#3276), [color=limegreen]Jimmmmm[/color] (#3307), [color=black]Space[/color] (#3315), [color=limegreen]Jimmmmm[/color] (#3319), [color=red]LL[/color] (#3321), [color=purple]e[/color] (#3322), [color=limegreen]mcmc[/color] (#3323)[/color]
[b]Vote-receiving history for [color=limegreen]PPS[/color][/b]
Day 1: [color=#AAA][color=limegreen]JR[/color] (#146), [color=limegreen]gkrieg[/color] (#206), [color=limegreen]TWM[/color] (#235)[/color]
Day 2: [color=#AAA]No votes[/color]
Day 3: [color=#AAA]No votes[/color]
[b]Vote-receiving history for [color=black]Dylan[/color][/b]
Day 1: [color=#AAA]No votes[/color]
Day 2: [color=#AAA][color=black]Galz[/color] (#1755), [color=limegreen]Jake[/color] (#2265), [color=limegreen]Andrew[/color] (#2295)[/color]
Day 3: [color=#AAA]No votes[/color]
Day 4: [color=#AAA]No votes[/color]
Day 5: [color=#AAA]No votes[/color]
Day 6: [color=#AAA][color=red]LL[/color] (#3864)[/color]
Day 7: [color=#AAA][color=black]sudgy[/color] (#4069), [color=black]RR[/color] (#4107), [color=black]O[/color] (#4117)[/color]
[b]Vote-receiving history for [color=black]RR[/color][/b]
Day 1: [color=#AAA][color=black]O[/color] (#358), [color=limegreen]Cuzz[/color] (#362), [color=limegreen]Cuzz[/color] (#1070)[/color]
Day 2: [color=#AAA][color=red]LL[/color] (#2015)[/color]
Day 3: [color=#AAA][color=limegreen]Jake[/color] (#3066), [color=purple]e[/color] (#3231)[/color]
Day 4: [color=#AAA]No votes[/color]
Day 5: [color=#AAA]No votes[/color]
Day 6: [color=#AAA][color=limegreen]faust[/color] (#3885)[/color]
Day 7: [color=#AAA]No votes[/color]
[b]Vote-receiving history for [color=red]iguana[/color][/b]
Day 1: [color=#AAA][color=limegreen]Cuzz[/color] (#641)[/color]
Day 2: [color=#AAA][color=limegreen]Cuzz[/color] (#2501)[/color]
Day 3: [color=#AAA][color=purple]e[/color] (#2624), [color=black]RR[/color] (#2637)[/color]
Day 4: [color=#AAA][color=black]Space[/color] (#3475)[/color]
Day 5: [color=#AAA][color=limegreen]faust[/color] (#3606), [color=black]Space[/color] (#3617), [color=black]RR[/color] (#3740), [color=black]Dylan[/color] (#3747), [color=limegreen]Awaclus[/color] (#3768), [color=red]iguana[/color] (#3773)[/color]
[b]Vote-receiving history for [color=limegreen]Jimmmmm[/color][/b]
Day 1: [color=#AAA]No votes[/color]
Day 2: [color=#AAA][color=limegreen]TWM[/color] (#1534)[/color]
Day 3: [color=#AAA][color=limegreen]faust[/color] (#2887), [color=limegreen]PPS[/color] (#2890), [color=red]LL[/color] (#2892), [color=limegreen]Jake[/color] (#2893), [color=black]RR[/color] (#2894)[/color]
Day 4: [color=#AAA]No votes[/color]
Day 5: [color=#AAA]No votes[/color]
[b]Vote-receiving history for [color=black]O[/color][/b]
Day 1: [color=#AAA][color=limegreen]Cuzz[/color] (#182), [color=limegreen]Cuzz[/color] (#187), [color=limegreen]Cuzz[/color] (#196), [color=limegreen]mcmc[/color] (#640), [color=limegreen]Awaclus[/color] (#698)[/color]
Day 2: [color=#AAA][color=limegreen]Awaclus[/color] (#1545)[/color]
Day 3: [color=#AAA]No votes[/color]
Day 4: [color=#AAA]No votes[/color]
Day 5: [color=#AAA][color=limegreen]Awaclus[/color] (#3682)[/color]
Day 6: [color=#AAA][color=red]LL[/color] (#3820)[/color]
Day 7: [color=#AAA][color=black]RR[/color] (#4059), [color=limegreen]Awaclus[/color] (#4065)[/color]
[b]Vote-receiving history for [color=limegreen]Andrew[/color][/b]
Day 1: [color=#AAA][color=limegreen]PPS[/color] (#808), [color=limegreen]Eevee[/color] (#849), [color=limegreen]Eevee[/color] (#1019)[/color]
Day 2: [color=#AAA][color=limegreen]Cuzz[/color] (#1555), [color=limegreen]PPS[/color] (#1557), [color=purple]e[/color] (#1636), [color=limegreen]PPS[/color] (#1956), [color=red]LL[/color] (#2090), [color=limegreen]Eevee[/color] (#2125), [color=black]O[/color] (#2286), [color=black]sudgy[/color] (#2287), [color=limegreen]Cuzz[/color] (#2299), [color=black]Dylan[/color] (#2303), [color=black]O[/color] (#2477), [color=black]RR[/color] (#2478), [color=limegreen]PPS[/color] (#2482), [color=limegreen]Jake[/color] (#2483), [color=red]iguana[/color] (#2484), [color=black]RR[/color] (#2522), [color=limegreen]Jimmmmm[/color] (#2537), [color=limegreen]Cuzz[/color] (#2547), [color=black]Galz[/color] (#2557), [color=limegreen]mcmc[/color] (#2558)[/color]
[b]Vote-receiving history for [color=limegreen]Cuzz[/color][/b]
Day 1: [color=#AAA][color=limegreen]Eevee[/color] (#245)[/color]
Day 2: [color=#AAA][color=limegreen]faust[/color] (#1507), [color=limegreen]Andrew[/color] (#1554), [color=limegreen]Andrew[/color] (#1575), [color=black]sudgy[/color] (#2405), [color=limegreen]PPS[/color] (#2406), [color=black]Dylan[/color] (#2422), [color=limegreen]Andrew[/color] (#2427), [color=black]Space[/color] (#2432), [color=red]iguana[/color] (#2446), [color=limegreen]Jake[/color] (#2454)[/color]
[b]Vote-receiving history for [color=red]ash[/color][/b]
Day 1: [color=#AAA][color=limegreen]Cuzz[/color] (#231), [color=red]LL[/color] (#243), [color=red]iguana[/color] (#429)[/color]
Day 2: [color=#AAA][color=black]O[/color] (#2151), [color=limegreen]Cuzz[/color] (#2187)[/color]
Day 3: [color=#AAA][color=black]O[/color] (#2721), [color=purple]e[/color] (#2770), [color=black]Galz[/color] (#2794), [color=black]sudgy[/color] (#2795), [color=limegreen]TWM[/color] (#3233), [color=limegreen]faust[/color] (#3256), [color=limegreen]Jake[/color] (#3266), [color=limegreen]TWM[/color] (#3269), [color=purple]e[/color] (#3271), [color=purple]e[/color] (#3277), [color=red]LL[/color] (#3295)[/color]
Day 4: [color=#AAA][color=limegreen]faust[/color] (#3374), [color=red]LL[/color] (#3397), [color=black]O[/color] (#3412), [color=limegreen]faust[/color] (#3426), [color=black]sudgy[/color] (#3441), [color=limegreen]Jake[/color] (#3445), [color=black]Space[/color] (#3549), [color=red]iguana[/color] (#3569), [color=red]ash[/color] (#3591)[/color]
[b]Vote-receiving history for [color=limegreen]Jake[/color][/b]
Day 1: [color=#AAA][color=black]Dylan[/color] (#292)[/color]
Day 2: [color=#AAA]No votes[/color]
Day 3: [color=#AAA]No votes[/color]
Day 4: [color=#AAA]No votes[/color]
[b]Vote-receiving history for [color=limegreen]mcmc[/color][/b]
Day 1: [color=#AAA][color=limegreen]Cuzz[/color] (#163), [color=purple]e[/color] (#173), [color=red]LL[/color] (#174), [color=limegreen]TWM[/color] (#316), [color=limegreen]gkrieg[/color] (#489), [color=limegreen]TWM[/color] (#644), [color=red]LL[/color] (#731), [color=limegreen]Jake[/color] (#741), [color=limegreen]TWM[/color] (#782), [color=black]Space[/color] (#974), [color=red]LL[/color] (#976), [color=black]RR[/color] (#1298)[/color]
Day 2: [color=#AAA][color=limegreen]Jake[/color] (#1514), [color=limegreen]Jimmmmm[/color] (#1520)[/color]
Day 3: [color=#AAA]No votes[/color]
[b]Vote-receiving history for [color=black]sudgy[/color][/b]
Day 1: [color=#AAA][color=limegreen]faust[/color] (#548), [color=limegreen]TWM[/color] (#570), [color=limegreen]Eevee[/color] (#1120)[/color]
Day 2: [color=#AAA][color=limegreen]TWM[/color] (#1703), [color=black]Dylan[/color] (#2054), [color=limegreen]TWM[/color] (#2241), [color=black]Dylan[/color] (#2359)[/color]
Day 3: [color=#AAA][color=limegreen]faust[/color] (#2911), [color=black]Dylan[/color] (#2915), [color=limegreen]TWM[/color] (#2932)[/color]
Day 4: [color=#AAA][color=red]LL[/color] (#3390)[/color]
Day 5: [color=#AAA]No votes[/color]
Day 6: [color=#AAA][color=black]Galz[/color] (#3783), [color=black]Dylan[/color] (#3793), [color=limegreen]faust[/color] (#3797), [color=limegreen]Awaclus[/color] (#3870)[/color]
Day 7: [color=#AAA][color=black]Dylan[/color] (#4050), [color=black]Galz[/color] (#4091), [color=black]O[/color] (#4099), [color=black]Dylan[/color] (#4102)[/color]
-
Here's the RR post that prompted that faust vote I wanted to look at.
I have a secret weapon to confirm myself as town if need be, but that makes me a high NK target so I'd prefer not to.
RR, it got brushed off as a joke earlier, with LL's help. However, I'd like you to return to it now and explain what you were thinking about at the time. If you have a way to make yourself look more townie about now, I'd be very interested in hearing about it.
I note that your play here is not a million miles away from your lurky/absent play in RMM43, which you just won as part of the scum faction with faust and Haddock, and which we can now talk about.
The thing that mostly cleared you so far in M100 is that you had the head-to-head with e over the claiming exercise, but e could absolutely have guessed a scum slot rather than a town slot. I think that it's likely you actually had the draft place and role slot you claimed, rather than that you're a secret strongman, but you're also smart enough to have decided to wifom us by not taking Galz out last night and you had an extra incentive to get rid of faust because the two of you have just been scum buddies together.
Other factors in favour of RR being scum:
- It puts another scum on the e wagon, and I feel like that wagon is missing a scum at the moment. (The other on-wagon people without known faction are Galz and sudgy).
- Along with Galz and Dylan, RR could be the off-wagon scum at the ash lynch. That feels right. Again, Galz also fits the profile.
- He was on the iguana wagon, but faust did rather push him into it. He was actually pushing to lynch both me and iguana on consecutive days.
- His jump onto the faust wagon at #3921 involved agreeing in a maybe-scummy manner with LL, who said that sudgy had a surprisingly good faust case. The interaction just doesn't sit well with me.
That's maybe more gut and wagon-gazing than real logic, but if anyone else has stuff to add, please go ahead!
-
In terms of my other re-reads, I went through a lot of O posts, and other than the fact that I find the pro-fun attitude stuff to be at odds with his desire to push for information and discussion on PRs from very early in the game, I don't think he's all that likely to be our scum, because there's good townie play in there too.
O re-read. 382 game posts so far.
He comes straight into the game pretty much broadcasting what to expect of his playstyle, so at least he's consistent. I spent the early game not really having much of a picture in my head of him relative to the other oldies I don't know. I do note that this is the sort of playstyle that winds me up really easily, so that's likely to colour my re-read. I'll try and compensate for that afterwards.
#169 Already not in favour of a mass claim for fun-related reasons.
#270 He's made a malformed vote on LL, but with a decent argument behind it around thinking LL would have the top spot and that town would have picked IC over vig.
#278 Makes a softclaim about not rolling a low draft number, not being vig/immune etc.
#584 This is interesting because he's doing exactly the kind of info-fishing I pushed for later on with the massclaim, but kind of claiming that it's nothing to do with a massclaim. Probably an issue of semantics more than anything else. It fits with being a VT who wants something more evidence-based to go on, though I guess it could also fit with being scum and wanting extra info that could be used later in whatever he sees a massclaim going like.
#604/#605 I actually agree totally with what O was doing, but I think D1 wasn't the right time to get others to agree with it. I just don't quite get the whole "pro-fun" and "pro-entertainment" thing that goes along with it, since that side of things (with his fake-claiming and stuff) goes in exactly the opposite direction to amassing the kind of info he's pushing for in these posts.
#612 Says he won MVIII by bussing hard. If scum, he's bussed LL for a bit of D1, ash for a very short while D2, ash with conviction all through D3, ash for the start of D4 but not for the actual lynch, and LL just for the hammer D6. That might be considered a decent amount of bussing.
#613 First sarcastic fake-claim.
#1256 Sudden unvote and total about-turn on LL.
#1341 His stuff around here makes a lot of sense (JR defence towards the end of D1).
#1424 This feels like it would be too much of a good performance as scum, because I feel like scum will almost certainly have discussed the HH and mechanisms surrounding the role.
#1474 "Is there where I mention that i was the hammer hero all along?" just when he was looking so townie. Okay, so this kind of "pro-fun" misinformation is just his style I guess. Tough to ignore how much it rubs me up the wrong way, but I'll work on that...
Wow. D1 is so long and painful. I'm not a D1 player [i]at all[/i]. On to D2...
#1539 This is one of those things to work on ignoring. But at the same time, maybe it's just too brazen to be scummy?
#1827 Having voted LL during the peak of LL's wagon D1, he's now sheeping LL onto me in D2.
#1918 This metagaming advice seems to be pro-town.
#2143 "I do really think the largest whiners are the most likely to be scum, since they're the most sure that TWM/MCMC are town... so that'd be Ashersky, Faust, and Galzria I guess." -- any updates on this thought process re Galz now, O?
#2464 Arguing a lot against people townreading Galz.
... then I re-read D3 and much of D4 in full yesterday and nothing jumped out at me.
I'm not feeling the O-must-be-scum vibe. If he [i]is[/i] scum, he's really good at hiding it, but the whole "pro-fun" thing is also probably quite good for hiding behind compared to a more purely logic-based playstyle, so it's hard for me to feel very sure.
(I read up to around his 240th post)
-
My Dylan re-read was also not totally useful, possibly because of confirmation bias. He's a good scum and I know it. He's aware of his scum meta, and appears to have taken steps to distance himself from it. I certainly don't mind him as a default lynch, as he's the leading wagon at the moment, but I'd like to know I've explored other options too!
#312 Anti-massclaim for D1. But doesn't overall rule it out.
#436-#442 Throws shade on TWM for changing his mind on O and votes him (in the opposite order).
#532 Defending ash. Though maybe too much to risk on a partner?
#872 "Bussing D1 or D2 is particularly strong for scum." -- another pro-bussing candidate! If this is scum!Dylan, he was not on a single correct wagon D1, D2 [i]or[/i] D3, and then he didn't vote at all D4. He did get in on iguana at last in D5, and LL on D6, but by those points scum was really needing the townpoints, and he'd started a specific tally of people being on good lynches.
#1065 Posted to say he's really far behind.
#1765 Back from big VLA; hasn't posted anything since his "I'm behind" post at #1065. Plonks a vote on me without much useful description, but lurky early-game me is an easy target.
#1870 Pushing in the same direction as ash.
#2056 scumreading Eevee for being too right? Then Eevee was an NK. Of course, if sudgy really is the scum it woud be great wifom for a frame job, but there are more interesting people out there to frame this early in the game, I think.
#2243 Points out how good he is at being scum. Also, nicely puts LL into the scummy category, iguana into the nullish cetegory, and ash into the "lean town" category.
#2303 Careless L-2 against the HH plan?
#2319 Points out how different he is to his superb scum meta, in a post to Andrew, who was his scumbuddy in another recent game. This is really quite wifomy!
#2644 "Also, something about people saying "I wouldn't do that as scum" still just irks me, even though it is kind of an inevitable argument." -- isn't that kind of what all Dylan's "here's how my scum meta goes" posts are effectively trying to do? :-P
#2915 This is the post where Dylan feels the need to hint cryptically to us about the thing that would lead him "to strongly believe that someone specific is lying". I still don't quite see why town!Dylan needs to do that, but scum!Dylan experimenting with some slightly more ash-like scum-play could certianly find it interesting to try out.
Meh.. I'm well into re-reading Dylan's D3 now, and I still can't shake the gut feeling that he's scum.
This re-read mostly brought to you by confirmation bias :-)
-
Oh yeah, that thing about me getting towncred was absolutely not a joke, but I don't think I want to share it until tomorrow.
-
Oh yeah, that thing about me getting towncred was absolutely not a joke, but I don't think I want to share it until tomorrow.
I've heard roadrunner gets default lynched a lot while he's town...
That's being said, if it's not extremely substantial evidence, I vote we A. press him to share today and B. If he insists on not sharing today, default lynch him tomorrow if his towncred seems BS.
-
Vote: O for reasons not related to his last post.
-
My Dylan re-read was also not totally useful, possibly because of confirmation bias. He's a good scum and I know it. He's aware of his scum meta, and appears to have taken steps to distance himself from it. I certainly don't mind him as a default lynch, as he's the leading wagon at the moment, but I'd like to know I've explored other options too!
#312 Anti-massclaim for D1. But doesn't overall rule it out.
#436-#442 Throws shade on TWM for changing his mind on O and votes him (in the opposite order).
#532 Defending ash. Though maybe too much to risk on a partner?
#872 "Bussing D1 or D2 is particularly strong for scum." -- another pro-bussing candidate! If this is scum!Dylan, he was not on a single correct wagon D1, D2 [i]or[/i] D3, and then he didn't vote at all D4. He did get in on iguana at last in D5, and LL on D6, but by those points scum was really needing the townpoints, and he'd started a specific tally of people being on good lynches.
#1065 Posted to say he's really far behind.
#1765 Back from big VLA; hasn't posted anything since his "I'm behind" post at #1065. Plonks a vote on me without much useful description, but lurky early-game me is an easy target.
#1870 Pushing in the same direction as ash.
#2056 scumreading Eevee for being too right? Then Eevee was an NK. Of course, if sudgy really is the scum it woud be great wifom for a frame job, but there are more interesting people out there to frame this early in the game, I think.
#2243 Points out how good he is at being scum. Also, nicely puts LL into the scummy category, iguana into the nullish cetegory, and ash into the "lean town" category.
#2303 Careless L-2 against the HH plan?
#2319 Points out how different he is to his superb scum meta, in a post to Andrew, who was his scumbuddy in another recent game. This is really quite wifomy!
#2644 "Also, something about people saying "I wouldn't do that as scum" still just irks me, even though it is kind of an inevitable argument." -- isn't that kind of what all Dylan's "here's how my scum meta goes" posts are effectively trying to do? :-P
#2915 This is the post where Dylan feels the need to hint cryptically to us about the thing that would lead him "to strongly believe that someone specific is lying". I still don't quite see why town!Dylan needs to do that, but scum!Dylan experimenting with some slightly more ash-like scum-play could certianly find it interesting to try out.
Meh.. I'm well into re-reading Dylan's D3 now, and I still can't shake the gut feeling that he's scum.
This re-read mostly brought to you by confirmation bias :-)
The town reason for my cryptic statement was so that I wouldn't alert scum to what I saw as a pontential trap or something like that in the claims in hopes they would fall into it. And I might not have had anything else to say at that point, so that was me meeting the daily post rule lol. When I'm not on mobile in a car I'll try to respond more in full if you want.
@sudgy this isn't me flailing. This is me trying to actually play while having my mind occupied with vacation. Also, I was thinking about the game during my shift driving earlier and realized that you wouldn't claim random slot targeting a specific role. I was going to acknowledge that but you beat me to it. So I concede that detail.
-
my availability to switch votes past this point until deadline is questionable.
-
Oh yeah, that thing about me getting towncred was absolutely not a joke, but I don't think I want to share it until tomorrow.
Vote: RR
Share now please.
If we get the lynch correct now, there doesn't even have to be a tomorrow, and I think a town player would be pretty focused on that!
-
Vote: O for reasons not related to his last post.
.. and that's all you're giving us? We already have one Awaclus in the game, and that's quite enough.
We're very close to the deadline, and I almost certainly can't be online when it comes to it because I have a choir committee meeting starting at exactly that time. From my point of view, we need final cases before it gets to noon forum time, and we need to try to consolidate wagons, not scatter them. At this stage, talking and making cases is miles better than being cryptic. We even know there's only one scum left, so we don't have to worry any more about people wifoming to cover partners or anything.
-
My lynch preference order right now is RR > Dylan > sudgy/O/Galz >> Awaclus. I have only gut case for scum!Dylan, but RR's behaviour here is starting to feel too much like scum!RR (okay, I guess the "feel" part means that's only a gut thing too...).
We can afford a mislynch, and RR is the player (other than our IC) who seems to be contributing least to the discussion dissecting the earlier game to look for alignment/partner clues and stuff. We also stand a better chance on working out what's up with Galz if we leave it another night.
That's being said, if it's not extremely substantial evidence, I vote we A. press him to share today and B. If he insists on not sharing today, default lynch him tomorrow if his towncred seems BS.
This is a good point, but I'm not happy deferring too many decisions, and the Galz JK/strongman evidence actually really benefits from being given another night, whereas there's no way that RR taking the info he already has and telling us tomorrow is any better than telling us right now. It benefits scum most if he can delay telling us till he can release some vague maybe-info just before the deadline and cause maximal confusion.. which seems to be exactly what he's trying to do.
-
Space count as of #4152:
O (2): Awaclus, RR
Dylan (2): sudgy, O
sudgy (2): Galz, Dylan
RR (1): Space
-
My lynch preference order right now is RR > Dylan > sudgy/O/Galz >> Awaclus. I have only gut case for scum!Dylan, but RR's behaviour here is starting to feel too much like scum!RR (okay, I guess the "feel" part means that's only a gut thing too...).
We can afford a mislynch, and RR is the player (other than our IC) who seems to be contributing least to the discussion dissecting the earlier game to look for alignment/partner clues and stuff. We also stand a better chance on working out what's up with Galz if we leave it another night.
That's being said, if it's not extremely substantial evidence, I vote we A. press him to share today and B. If he insists on not sharing today, default lynch him tomorrow if his towncred seems BS.
This is a good point, but I'm not happy deferring too many decisions, and the Galz JK/strongman evidence actually really benefits from being given another night, whereas there's no way that RR taking the info he already has and telling us tomorrow is any better than telling us right now. It benefits scum most if he can delay telling us till he can release some vague maybe-info just before the deadline and cause maximal confusion.. which seems to be exactly what he's trying to do.
I don't particularly disagree with this but deadline is approaching and I don't want to try and muster 4 votes on RR (or 2 additional) with the remaining hours left.
I'll try and check in one last time and vote Sudgy if Sudgy is the one at L-1, but I wouldn't be happy about it. I wasn't happy about LaLight either though so maybe that's a good thing.
-
"wouldn't be happy" is a strong phrase I guess given the following
RR/Dylan > Sudgy/Space > Galzria > Awaclus/O
-
vote: RR
That's being said, if it's not extremely substantial evidence, I vote we A. press him to share today and B. If he insists on not sharing today, default lynch him tomorrow if his towncred seems BS.
Yup.
-
aight well I'll park Vote:Roadrunner on then and hope we can muster one more.
-
Vote Count 7.7
O (2): Awaclus, RoadRunner7671
Dylan32 (2): sudgy, O
sudgy (1): Dylan32
RoadRunner7671 (2): SpaceAnemone, Galzria
With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Day 7 ends Monday, July 3, At 2:00 PM Forum Time.
-
aight well I'll park Vote:Roadrunner on then and hope we can muster one more.
Hint: you need a Space :-)
-
vote: RR
That's being said, if it's not extremely substantial evidence, I vote we A. press him to share today and B. If he insists on not sharing today, default lynch him tomorrow if his towncred seems BS.
Yup.
What's your availability like for the next couple of hours? If the RR wagon doesn't have enough support, are you good to move to Dylan?
-
vote: RR
That's being said, if it's not extremely substantial evidence, I vote we A. press him to share today and B. If he insists on not sharing today, default lynch him tomorrow if his towncred seems BS.
Yup.
What's your availability like for the next couple of hours? If the RR wagon doesn't have enough support, are you good to move to Dylan?
I prefer Sudgy to Dylan still - but I'll be around (mobile, at work, but should be able to check in at least every 30 until deadline).
-
Vote: Roadrunner
-
I'm around until deadline now, and I'm willing to hammer RR.
-
RIP
Time to share i guess
-
Roadrunner, you're my bro. You can always read me correctly, but some day I'm gunna take advantage of that. I hope my partners kill you tonight so that we can talk in the speccy.
It was this post. At first I was like 'oh hey thanks' then I was like 'oh hey thanks times 2 because you confirmed me as town.'
Unless you think this is some crazy strong WIFOM or something like that, iguana accidentally confirmed me as town
-
Roadrunner, you're my bro. You can always read me correctly, but some day I'm gunna take advantage of that. I hope my partners kill you tonight so that we can talk in the speccy.
It was this post. At first I was like 'oh hey thanks' then I was like 'oh hey thanks times 2 because you confirmed me as town.'
Unless you think this is some crazy strong WIFOM or something like that, iguana accidentally confirmed me as town
...that's it? You have 20 minutes to give me a better reason than that.
-
Roadrunner, you're my bro. You can always read me correctly, but some day I'm gunna take advantage of that. I hope my partners kill you tonight so that we can talk in the speccy.
It was this post. At first I was like 'oh hey thanks' then I was like 'oh hey thanks times 2 because you confirmed me as town.'
Unless you think this is some crazy strong WIFOM or something like that, iguana accidentally confirmed me as town
...that's it? You have 20 minutes to give me a better reason than that.
Yep. There's also the entire game of me being towny, but that's my trump card.
-
Like remember on D1 when I was convinced LaLight was scum? Remember yesterday when I started the LaLight wagon by simply voting for him with zero explanation?
-
#RRRemembers
-
Also SA, my play is the polar freakin opposite from Smallville.
-
Damn 20 minutes is a long time. How about sudgy switched to O then Space swoops in at the deadline like they said they would and gets the hammer?
-
But it's amazing to me that there's only one scum alive. You know, you go to slerp and when you wake up a spontaneous wagonhas pushed you to L-1 in like 10 hours.
-
How about AtE? That works sonetimes.
Don't lynch me guys I'm just a kid If you lynch me, I'll do my bit about how no one can read me like I always do.
-
Someone help I'm flailing and I can't stop
-
It's been 16 minutes! I'm exciter either way honestly. Either I get gloating privileges during twilight or I stay alive.
However, whenever I think it'll be fun to gloat it's always sad because I'm dead.
-
It's actually been 18 minutes. And yes, I know that this is clutter but if the day's about to end, who cares? Are you gonna call me scummy for doing this?
-
Close enough. Vote: RoadRunner
-
I was obv!Town
-
So scum is for sure on wagon, blah blah blah, learn how to read me, blah blah blah, how could this happen etc.
-
I guess now I might sogn up for another game
-
Thread locked.
-
Vote Count 7.Final
O (2): Awaclus, RoadRunner7671
sudgy (1): Dylan32
RoadRunner7671 (4): SpaceAnemone, Galzria, O, sudgy
With 7 alive it took 4 to lynch.
-
I think IG, hydrad, Eevee, and Robz are the unconfirmable claims (that is, can't confirm they are in the game or not).
How do I confirm my claim?
Lynch.
(https://i.imgur.com/8xRSg3U.jpg)
RoadRunner7671, the Vanilla Townie, has been lynched.
Night 7 begins now. All players must check-in with me by posting in their QTs. Actions are due within 48 hours. Day 8 will begin no later than Wednesday, July 5, at 1:00 PM Forum Time, though it could begin earlier.
-
I really don't like that faust just claimed and then disappeared. We need cross examination!
He's still online though.
Maybe he's waiting for mafiascum wiki to reload again so he can perfect his fake claim.
+1
as it happens, I had the JK9++ wiki page open before it went down! should I put the relevant info in here?
NO
Awaclus, the Vanilla Townie, has been killed.
DAY 8 START!
THREAD UNLOCKED.
-
Vote Count 8.1
Not Voting (5): O, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, Dylan32, sudgy
With 5 alive it takes 3 to lynch. Day 8 ends Tuesday, July 11, at 11:00 AM Forum Time.
-
Hmmm. Awaclus instead of Galz. Some thoughts.
1) Pending target claim, this probably either locks in strongman/RB (more likely) or scum!galz.
2) scum!O would for sure have to kill Awaclus before lylo. Doing so the night before would obviously really look bad. Doing so a night earlier would probably be better.
3) The only reason I can think of for scum other than O to kill Awaclus tonight given his game long tunnel would be to frame O. As mentioned in 2, killing him tomorrow would probably work better for that though.
4) I was about to make this point about wagon analysis, but apparently I'm the only living person that wasn't on that wagon. So I guess I'll just ask you all, do you trust that a late EoD mislynch wagon that came almost out of nowhere was 100% town driven?
5) Vote: O
-
4) I was about to make this point about wagon analysis, but apparently I'm the only living person that wasn't on that wagon. So I guess I'll just ask you all, do you trust that a late EoD mislynch wagon that came almost out of nowhere was 100% town driven?
Well, when RR was suddenly looking pretty scummy, I wouldn't be surprised if it was town driven. Vote: Dylan still because of the reasons said yesterday.
Galzria, what was your target?
-
Really sorry about my bad read yesterday! RIP, RR!
@Dylan, I think it was certainly majority town-driven because I did most of the driving :-( It's one of the perils of being still invested in the game when fatigue sets in with other players.
@Galz, seconding the desire to know your target and reasoning for the night.
On the bright side, at least we don't have to worry any more about that niggling little chance that Awaclus wasn't a true IC somehow.
-
4) I was about to make this point about wagon analysis, but apparently I'm the only living person that wasn't on that wagon. So I guess I'll just ask you all, do you trust that a late EoD mislynch wagon that came almost out of nowhere was 100% town driven?
Well, when RR was suddenly looking pretty scummy, I wouldn't be surprised if it was town driven. Vote: Dylan still because of the reasons said yesterday.
Galzria, what was your target?
What reasons were given that I didn't already answer? Space admitted that their read on me was almost entirely gut based.
And as I was reading what happened, I didn't think RR was scummy. That was very typical RR. That's not to say I thought he played that very well, but he is way more likely to overestimate the towncred he would get from something like that as town than as scum. No way would he bank his entire defense on that as scum. I realize it's easy to say now with hindsight, but if I had been around, I would have said it then too. That was just bad.
@Space, yeah unfortunately my confidence in my town read on you did take a hit because of it.
-
Whelp, that confirms that.
I jailed Awaclus last night. Dylan hit the reasons on the nose more or less. Scum had to kill him and the opportunities to do so are dwindling. N6 it was worth the gamble of trying to jail my biggest scum read (As per faust's suggestion), but now I needed information. Jailing Awaclus was the most likely way to get it.
-
Scums playing a lot of WIFOM these days...
I want to lynch Dylan and Sudgy.
My guess is Scum is going to leave Galzria alive and try and play the WIFOM there. If we do lynch me today yall need to really not take the bait and lynch Galzria after that.
I think there's a legitimate need to argue against why dylan isn't obv!town for being off the lynch:
1. Roadrunner was being incredibly obtuse and scummy.
2. Dylan's vote being on Sudgy felt mostly like a survivalist vote, and he wasn't around during deadline. We have little evidence that Dylan wouldn't have voted for RR
3. It would be scummier to not push a lynch through than to lynch town putting us at a 6 people and setting us up for a 4 person MYLO is pretty much exactly what scum prefers. It's much, much better than lynching town when there's rules putting standoff scenarios in favor of scum.
Now to defend myself:
1. Awaclus's position as A. Permanently voting for me and B. Confirmed Town meant both that his death was inevitable and that his death has very little realistic bearing on my alignment. Scum were always going to kill him, as kind of stated before: If I'm scum, I can't have him around at LYLO, if I'm not scum, Scum will be removing confirmed!town and framing me.
Now I do agree killing Galzria still generally would have made more sense today, at least if scum are under the same opinion of me that Galzria should be default accepted as town. But yesterday the consensus wasn't there at all that Galzria was town. Even still frankly if I were in Scums position this game (notably different than "If I were scum" which still has Awaclus default voting for me). I would have killed Galzria last night if I didn't kill him two nights ago.
2. From (3) above, my existence during deadline could be construed as some fealty to the integrity of the game, but I'd have no problems playing the deadline dance if I were scum (I might have even done it in the past not sure). And while my vote on LaLight could be construed as self preservation of scum, as if I don't hammer LL I'm probably getting lynched after LL flips scum, there's no similar argument for Roadrunner last night. There's just not a good reason for me as scum to facilitate a lynch at deadline.
It's for similar reasons that I've become increasingly more town-reading of Space. Space even more than me benefits immensely from a NL yesterday, since Space doesn't have default reasons to think she's at risk of a lynch.
TLDR Lynch Preference = Dylan + Sudgy > Space > Galzria. I'd say I'd self-lynch before Galzria because I think Galzria is more likely to survive LYLO as town than me, but that's a bit paradoxical because lynch preference order is assuming they're able to be lynched today in the first place.
-
Mobile atm - can somebody post all known/stated draft positions and choices?
-
Mobile atm - can somebody post all known/stated draft positions and choices?
Who was claimed draft #2?
-
Two possibilities:
1) Galz is scum and killed Awaclus. Let's explore that some more. He could be a scum JK who got his PR exactly as he said he did. He could also have picked up something else from slot 11, but it has to be slot 11, because O failed to get anything from that slot, and at most one of them is lying. The other possible PRs that could have come from there and still allowed faust to be blocked N1 are RB, or also JOAT, which would have allowed Galz a single RB shot. If that's the case, what went on with the kills on N2 that left Galz confident enough to claim that he'd blocked one? Here's Galz's claim (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17217.msg697223#msg697223) when he made it; faust's response is not that many posts later.
2) We have an RB, a JOAT, or a strongman, and that person got that PR from slot 3, 5, or 8 respectively, and then fakeclaimed VT and another slot. I just went back to check the rules, and it says that a scum can't perform their faction kill and use a PR in the same night unless they're the last of their faction, but that must be the situation we're in now.. and also RB trumps JK, so Galz could have been RBd rather than strongmanned. It probably doesn't make a lot of difference at this point, anyway! Whichever role it was, we're looking for someone who was able to make a convincing fake-claim over the slot they took, because they definitely can't be a goon. The obvious person in that sort of claiming position is O, since he claimed slot 11 a long time after Galz did, and is conveniently placed late in the draft order.
PPE 2 because I started this post ages ago. @Galz, I'll get you that list in a moment :-)
-
Draft order with slot and role claims, updated with flips:
#1 faust, 2-shot vig (slot 1) Claimed vig at #2678
#2 ?
#3 Jimmmmm, original Mason (slot 6)
#4 mcmc, Hammer Hero (slot 9)
#5 LL, Mafia Godfather-er (presumably slot 7)
#6 e, SK, 1-Shot Bus Driver (claims slot 13; definitely can't have been 6)
#7 sudgy, VT (went for slot 6)
#8 Dylan, VT (went for slot 13)
#9 Eevee, was VT, became Mason. (went for slot 6)
#10 Awaclus, VT
#11 iguana, Mafia Goon (went for slot 13)
#12 ashersky, Mafia Goon (claimed slot 4?).
#13 TWM, Hider (Slot 10)
#14 JR, VT
#15 PPS, restless sheeper (slot 2)
#16 ?
#17 Jake, Tracker (slot 12)
#18 Space, VT (went for slot 12)
#19 RR, VT (went for slot 13)
#20 Galz, Jailkeeper (slot 11)
#21 O, VT (went for slot 11)
#22 ?
#23 ?
Names missing from the list are Calamitas, gkreig, Cuzz and Andrew.
-
What are the chances our Strongman (or more likely RB?) was Slot 2, but claimed a lower spot of their VT teammate?
Like... If Calamitas was #11, Iguana was #7 and our remaining scum was #2?
For example, Iguana could've taken UB at #7 and failed - making it a safe claim for Sudgy. Sudgy, having taken that claim would've moved Iguana into Calamitas' spot when time to claim.
Sorry - beach day drunk. AMA. Just a thought I had. Don't know if it works though
-
Scums playing a lot of WIFOM these days...
I want to lynch Dylan and Sudgy.
My guess is Scum is going to leave Galzria alive and try and play the WIFOM there. If we do lynch me today yall need to really not take the bait and lynch Galzria after that.
I think there's a legitimate need to argue against why dylan isn't obv!town for being off the lynch:
1. Roadrunner was being incredibly obtuse and scummy.
2. Dylan's vote being on Sudgy felt mostly like a survivalist vote, and he wasn't around during deadline. We have little evidence that Dylan wouldn't have voted for RR
3. It would be scummier to not push a lynch through than to lynch town putting us at a 6 people and setting us up for a 4 person MYLO is pretty much exactly what scum prefers. It's much, much better than lynching town when there's rules putting standoff scenarios in favor of scum.
Now to defend myself:
1. Awaclus's position as A. Permanently voting for me and B. Confirmed Town meant both that his death was inevitable and that his death has very little realistic bearing on my alignment. Scum were always going to kill him, as kind of stated before: If I'm scum, I can't have him around at LYLO, if I'm not scum, Scum will be removing confirmed!town and framing me.
Now I do agree killing Galzria still generally would have made more sense today, at least if scum are under the same opinion of me that Galzria should be default accepted as town. But yesterday the consensus wasn't there at all that Galzria was town. Even still frankly if I were in Scums position this game (notably different than "If I were scum" which still has Awaclus default voting for me). I would have killed Galzria last night if I didn't kill him two nights ago.
2. From (3) above, my existence during deadline could be construed as some fealty to the integrity of the game, but I'd have no problems playing the deadline dance if I were scum (I might have even done it in the past not sure). And while my vote on LaLight could be construed as self preservation of scum, as if I don't hammer LL I'm probably getting lynched after LL flips scum, there's no similar argument for Roadrunner last night. There's just not a good reason for me as scum to facilitate a lynch at deadline.
It's for similar reasons that I've become increasingly more town-reading of Space. Space even more than me benefits immensely from a NL yesterday, since Space doesn't have default reasons to think she's at risk of a lynch.
TLDR Lynch Preference = Dylan + Sudgy > Space > Galzria. I'd say I'd self-lynch before Galzria because I think Galzria is more likely to survive LYLO as town than me, but that's a bit paradoxical because lynch preference order is assuming they're able to be lynched today in the first place.
To your 3 points about me:
1) I never said RR wasn't being obtuse and behaving in a way that is generally seen as scummy, and so having never played with him, if you are town, I don't fault you for being on that lynch. I would have in previous games with him based on that, but not generally anymore.
2) I have scum read sudgy for almost the entire game. You can't say my vote on him was survivalist. I dare you to read several town!RR games and tell me that I wouldn't at least be somewhat likely to see similarities between that and this town!rr...
3) I would have joined on RR IFF it was literally the only option to no lynch. I would have self hammered if need be to avoid no lynch and prove that my reads were honest going into the last day or two rather than give scum that bonus.
To one of your defense points:
1) My thinking is that given Awaclus, the ideal final 3 for scum would be you, Awaclus, and scum. Unless Awaclus turned around and was baiting scum by faking a scum read on you in order to get that exact group, it's a pretty safe bet Awaclus would go for you barring something big. So scum would have a pretty big incentive to not kill you two. As you said though, you 100% couldn't have him around. There's a pretty good reason why scum would want him around if you didn't get lynched.
2) You could just as easily help facilitate the lynch specifically to get the town cred for helping a lynch go through for the exact argument you seem to have had ready to bring up.
-
This is the claim order. There might have been a few discrepencies between what happened and this, but it was pretty close to this.
Draft order with slot and role claims, updated with flips:
#1 faust, 2-shot vig (slot 1) Claimed vig at #2678
#2 ?
#3 Jimmmmm, original Mason (slot 6)
#4 mcmc, Hammer Hero (slot 9)
#5 LL, Mafia Godfather-er (presumably slot 7)
#6 e, SK, 1-Shot Bus Driver (claims slot 13; definitely can't have been 6)
#7 sudgy, VT (went for slot 6)
#8 Dylan, VT (went for slot 13)
#9 Eevee, was VT, became Mason. (went for slot 6)
#10 Awaclus, VT
#11 iguana, Mafia Goon (went for slot 13)
#12 ashersky, Mafia Goon (claimed slot 4?).
#13 TWM, Hider (Slot 10)
#14 JR, VT
#15 PPS, restless sheeper (slot 2)
#16 ?
#17 Jake, Tracker (slot 12)
#18 Space, VT (went for slot 12)
#19 RR, VT (went for slot 13)
#20 Galz, Jailkeeper (slot 11)
#21 O, VT (went for slot 11)
#22 ?
#23 ?
Names missing from the list are Calamitas, gkreig, Cuzz and Andrew.
This is the order:
JaketheBaseballGod22
sudgy
pingpongsam
SpaceAnemone
Jimmmmm
Dylan32
2.71828......
ashersky
RoadRunner7671
iguanaiguana
LaLight
O
Awaclus
If this list contains people who already claimed and I missed it, I would like them to claim again.
Put these two things together for convenience.
-
Should have previewed, but whatever, you get the what's what of it.
-
So a break down of who's claims were safe assuming the order here is the order of the claim (with the obvious mcmc and twm claims well ahead of the mass claim considered).
MCO = mass claim order. 2nd person listed is the winner of the claimed slot target.
Space - Draft #18, slot 12, MCO 4. Jake: #17, slot 12 (flip proven), MCO 1. Completely safe.
Sudgy - #7, slot 6, MCO 2. Jimmmmm: #3, slot 6, MCO 5. However, Eevee had already flipped Masonic Lover, so either slot 6 was safe or it was in rando slot. Calculated but possibly worthwhile risk. Of note sudgy full claimed at the beginning of round 1.
O - #21, slot 11, MCO next to last. Galz, #20, slot 11, (wait, had you claimed before the mass claim, or did Awaclus just forget you?) too tired to go back and look.
Galz again - #20, slot 11 and won according to claim.
Dylan - #7, slot 13, MCO 6. Was unsafe until e admitted he was #6 in trying to claim survivor to explain the e/rr claim mistake well past the mass claim itself. Also, the only possible scenario where he didn't actually get 13 would be if Galz is lying about winning slot 11 since Jake claimed 13 and flipped tracker. This would mean that Galz was lying anyway. Since I didn't get it and no one else above me claimed going for 13, I'm assuming e told the truth there.
-
So a break down of who's claims were safe assuming the order here is the order of the claim (with the obvious mcmc and twm claims well ahead of the mass claim considered).
MCO = mass claim order. 2nd person listed is the winner of the claimed slot target.
Space - Draft #18, slot 12, MCO 4. Jake: #17, slot 12 (flip proven), MCO 1. Completely safe.
Sudgy - #7, slot 6, MCO 2. Jimmmmm: #3, slot 6, MCO 5. However, Eevee had already flipped Masonic Lover, so either slot 6 was safe or it was in rando slot. Calculated but possibly worthwhile risk. Of note sudgy full claimed at the beginning of round 1.
O - #21, slot 11, MCO next to last. Galz, #20, slot 11, (wait, had you claimed before the mass claim, or did Awaclus just forget you?) too tired to go back and look.
Galz again - #20, slot 11 and won according to claim.
Dylan - #7, slot 13, MCO 6. Was unsafe until e admitted he was #6 in trying to claim survivor to explain the e/rr claim mistake well past the mass claim itself. Also, the only possible scenario where he didn't actually get 13 would be if Galz is lying about winning slot 11 since Jake claimed 12 and flipped tracker. This would mean that Galz was lying anyway. Since I didn't get it and no one else above me claimed going for 13, I'm assuming e told the truth there.
edit: fixed typo
-
To one of your defense points:
1) My thinking is that given Awaclus, the ideal final 3 for scum would be you, Awaclus, and scum. Unless Awaclus turned around and was baiting scum by faking a scum read on you in order to get that exact group, it's a pretty safe bet Awaclus would go for you barring something big. So scum would have a pretty big incentive to not kill you two. As you said though, you 100% couldn't have him around. There's a pretty good reason why scum would want him around if you didn't get lynched.
2) You could just as easily help facilitate the lynch specifically to get the town cred for helping a lynch go through for the exact argument you seem to have had ready to bring up.
1. It's certainly a strategy, but it's definitely not some amazing, must go strategy. They would be putting all of their faith in Awaclus being consistent on that last day, and would sacrifice a potential lynch target by keeping Awaclus alive. At normal 1-2 Lylo scum have a 2/3s chance of winning, is that more or less than the odds of Awaclus voting for me over them? Not entirely sure. Maybe they think I'm an idiot and might vote Awaclus out of desperation at LYLO before Awaclus forces it? Doubtful.
2. NoLynch increases the odds of a scum win about 10% (8/15 -> 5/8) ? using generic assumptions. If we give Galzria pseudo-IC status and assume he dies tonight, NoLynch increases the odds of scum win by exactly 10% (1/2 -> 3/5). So I guess it's theoretically a gamble I could make for townCred, but I'd be sacrificing a whole lot of odds for it.
None of this makes me necessarily some amazingly "likely town" person, but, as it is, neither are 3/4 of the rest of yall.
-
The obvious person in that sort of claiming position is O, since he claimed slot 11 a long time after Galz did, and is conveniently placed late in the draft order.
Technically correct but you're only looking at half the info we have. It appears (I have not personally confirmed past reading the current post) that Draft order #2 is unclaimed. It is low probability that draft order #2 did not win a PR, since that would require voting for Slot 1. Admittedly Slot 1 is a pretty desirable one but I'd still put it 20-80 that draft order #2 got a PR.
Everyone who did not claim draft order flipped vanilla town/scum. So I think with reasonably high probability we have one of two possibilities:
1. the remaining scum got draft #2 and lied about his position
2. the remaining scum got draft #5 or #11/#12 and lied about his position, and LaLight/Ashersky actually got draft position 2. I consider this pretty damn likely actually since I feel like LaLight/Ashersky should be pretty far up on the draft?
On average, the draft position seems likely to be high for our remaining scum. I came into M100 five years out of date. I think that Galz was roughly as out of date? and he infact appears just above me in the claimed draft order! I suggest that this, while somewhat convenient for my claim from an outside perspective, makes perfect sense and is a reasonable conclusion to guessing how draft order would turn out.
-
Vote Count 8.2
O (1): Dylan32
Dylan32 (1): sudgy
Not Voting (3): O, Galzria, SpaceAnemone
With 5 alive it takes 3 to lynch. Day 8 ends Tuesday, July 11, at 11:00 AM Forum Time.
-
Dylan, you've been a bit careless with your analysis of the claims -- sudgy's in particular, so I want to pick at that a bit...
You keep saying that sudgy's claim might have been safe because a mason had already flipped. Given that he claimed draft order 7, that means that unless someone in the first six places had picked mason, it was still totally unsafe to claim UB with a VT role, because he should have been expected to have a role if he'd picked it ahead of the next person. And given that we already knew that faust had taken first place, that means that sudgy had to hope that one of only five unclaimed players above him, rather that one of the 16 below him, had picked slot 6. That's significantly less likely than you're giving it credit for being.
I think the main risk with sudgy is exactly the same as the main risk with you, which is that one of you actually got draft order #2, but claimed Calamitas's draft order and slot bid, or maybe did a more comprehensive slot-bid swap-around with other scums. I think it seems exceedingly likely that whoever had draft order 7 tried for slot 6, and not much less likely that whoever had draft order 8 went for slot 13, though given that we know slot 13 is more popular, and therefore one might expect it to have a higher chance of having been picked, I do think that the slot 6 argument is the stronger of that pair. Thinking more about it, though, why would scum!Dylan or scum!sudgy actually risk an unsafe fake claim at all when there was already a totally safe slot-1 claim available?
The main thing I dislike about my gut-scumread on Dylan is actually how many arguments that apply to one of the sudgy-Dylan pair apply to both of them. They're right next to each other in the draft order. They're right next to each other on lots of wagons. The main voting differences between them are just that Dylan votes for sudgy a bunch of times and sudgy doesn't really reciprocate the tunnel. It's not like one is sheeping the other, either -- sometimes sudgy is first to a wagon, and sometimes it's Dylan. I feel like actions that similar should imply a common motive and faction, and at this stage that means town. I'm not 100% convinced by any means, but I like that sort of occam's razor reasoning more than I like trying to unpick wifom.
If we really want to get down to it, I ought to vote O on the grounds that he's the only person (other than me) who could have known with certainty that his fake-claim was safe. I need more thinking there though, because I did just re-read him and fail to really understand Awaclus's tunnel...
Anyway, I feel like reasoning around claims and roles is what will help us more than reasoning around the wifom of who would have killed whom. More tomorrow, I hope... I'm not sure this post is as on-point as I want it to be because I'm sleepy.. I may be conflating the issue about how likely the given fake claims are to have been safe with the issue about how likely they are to be given as fake claims in the first place if they weren't known to be safe, and what the actual slots and roles could have been instead. G'ngiht!
-
If we really want to get down to it, I ought to vote O on the grounds that he's the only person (other than me) who could have known with certainty that his fake-claim was safe. I need more thinking there though, because I did just re-read him and fail to really understand Awaclus's tunnel...
Anyway, I feel like reasoning around claims and roles is what will help us more than reasoning around the wifom of who would have killed whom. More tomorrow, I hope... I'm not sure this post is as on-point as I want it to be because I'm sleepy.. I may be conflating the issue about how likely the given fake claims are to have been safe with the issue about how likely they are to be given as fake claims in the first place if they weren't known to be safe, and what the actual slots and roles could have been instead. G'ngiht!
To try and push back against the claim analysis, I just had a realization
All the talk about "safe" claims also ignore (I think) that we had a dead vanilla scum before the massclaim who could provides a free "safe" claim for the scum claiming
Calamitas was Vanilla scum. Any PR scum that wanted to hide as VT could simply claim Calamitas's draft role/slot knowing it wouldn't be counterclaimed.
Because of this, I'd appreciate it if you at least addressed my other argument, summarized below:
1. It is reasonable and likely to expect that I am very far down on the draft order given my prior knowledge of players here
1a. Throughout D1-D3 I made several comments that hinted at #1 before the massclaim
2. It is reasonable and likely that someone so far down the draft order would try to grab slot 11, the least desirable slot. In fact, we know this happened because at least either me or Galz is telling the truth, and we both claimed low draft order and slot 11.
3. It is most probable the the remaining scum is a Godfatherer or Roleblocker, and those slots were desirable enough for it likely to be someone high on the draft order to get.
-
I don't want to quote everyone here, but I think you all pretty much agreed with what I saw - and O got it exactly right:
Slot #2 hasn't been claimed. Unless you honestly and truly believe slot #2 went for slot 1 and failed, then slot #2 won a PR.
Where is it?
Calamitas died n1. Well before the mass claim. His spot and draft choice was 100% safe to claim as VT. Scum could've been the first to claim in the mass claim and they had a safe go-to.
Because of this all claims that have been made are "safe" from a scum perspective. So then the question becomes who reasonably could've drafted #2?
-
Sorry, a little ambiguous in terminology.
I was speaking of draft #2, and the (un)likelihood of them going for slot #1 over a 100% guaranteed PR of their choice (Well, assuming draft #1 doesn't do anything weird).
-
If we really want to get down to it, I ought to vote O on the grounds that he's the only person (other than me) who could have known with certainty that his fake-claim was safe. I need more thinking there though, because I did just re-read him and fail to really understand Awaclus's tunnel...
Anyway, I feel like reasoning around claims and roles is what will help us more than reasoning around the wifom of who would have killed whom. More tomorrow, I hope... I'm not sure this post is as on-point as I want it to be because I'm sleepy.. I may be conflating the issue about how likely the given fake claims are to have been safe with the issue about how likely they are to be given as fake claims in the first place if they weren't known to be safe, and what the actual slots and roles could have been instead. G'ngiht!
To try and push back against the claim analysis, I just had a realization
All the talk about "safe" claims also ignore (I think) that we had a dead vanilla scum before the massclaim who could provides a free "safe" claim for the scum claiming
Calamitas was Vanilla scum. Any PR scum that wanted to hide as VT could simply claim Calamitas's draft role/slot knowing it wouldn't be counterclaimed.
Because of this, I'd appreciate it if you at least addressed my other argument, summarized below:
1. It is reasonable and likely to expect that I am very far down on the draft order given my prior knowledge of players here
1a. Throughout D1-D3 I made several comments that hinted at #1 before the massclaim
2. It is reasonable and likely that someone so far down the draft order would try to grab slot 11, the least desirable slot. In fact, we know this happened because at least either me or Galz is telling the truth, and we both claimed low draft order and slot 11.
3. It is most probable the the remaining scum is a Godfatherer or Roleblocker, and those slots were desirable enough for it likely to be someone high on the draft order to get.
So I actually think there might have been a town slip in there. How likely is scum to actually not remember what roles their (all dead and flipped) partners had?
unvote
-
Other option is to fake that. I don't really think that's likely though. If so, gg I guess.
-
Another option is that Calamitas was #2 but went for slot 1 hoping that #1 would go for hammer hero.
-
Sorry, didn't notice Galz's post that said the last thing I said already.
-
Other option is to fake that. I don't really think that's likely though. If so, gg I guess.
I don't think it was a town slip, because that's really not hard to fake or just mess up.
But I do think O is town, because I don't think he drafted high enough to take RB or Strongman. And I -really - don't think he drafted #2, which is where I think our remaining scum placed.
-
Other option is to fake that. I don't really think that's likely though. If so, gg I guess.
I don't think it was a town slip, because that's really not hard to fake or just mess up.
But I do think O is town, because I don't think he drafted high enough to take RB or Strongman. And I -really - don't think he drafted #2, which is where I think our remaining scum placed.
So if we were to judge who left would be the most likely to end up at #2, I would probably have to say Space I guess, assuming you (Galz) and O are telling the truth about not paying attention or going back to figure stuff out before bidding. I don't know much about sudgy, but since I joined this past Fall, Space was already decently established and even modded the newbie game I was in (not my first game though). They are also very analytical and math oriented, so that's points against them.
-
Sorry, a little ambiguous in terminology.
I was speaking of draft #2, and the (un)likelihood of them going for slot #1 over a 100% guaranteed PR of their choice (Well, assuming draft #1 doesn't do anything weird).
I really don't think it is quite as unlikely as you would think, depending on how much the scum team thought HH would be a top target for town. It might be interesting to go back and see what our confirmed scums' attitudes were towards HH.
-
I think Space is most likely to be #2 of us, but AFAIK not that likely. I think it's quite likely they switched up some of the draft positions the VT scum got.
-
I think Space is most likely to be #2 of us, but AFAIK not that likely. I think it's quite likely they switched up some of the draft positions the VT scum got.
What do you mean switched up draft positions? You mean claimed one from a vt scum?
-
Nevermind, mind tricked myself. They could swap with LaLight too (so between any members) because LaLight claimed VT, no reason to say "VT scum".
-
I think Space is most likely to be #2 of us, but AFAIK not that likely. I think it's quite likely they switched up some of the draft positions the VT scum got.
What do you mean switched up draft positions? You mean claimed one from a vt scum?
I mean LaLight claims draft position 5 or W/E and Iguana claims 11 or W/E but really LaLight had 11 and Iguana had 5. Not a likely example but something along those lines.
-
So wait a second. Scum wouldn't even have to claim Calamitas's spot in the order unless they were above him to begin with. If x < Calamitas, they just stick with their own slot but claim his target since they would have had time to talk and confirm he didn't get it earlier than they could have. 2 of the four empty slots are right at the bottom, and I doubt scum claimed higher than what they actually were.
PPE 1
-
I think Space is most likely to be #2 of us, but AFAIK not that likely. I think it's quite likely they switched up some of the draft positions the VT scum got.
What do you mean switched up draft positions? You mean claimed one from a vt scum?
I mean LaLight claims draft position 5 or W/E and Iguana claims 11 or W/E but really LaLight had 11 and Iguana had 5. Not a likely example but something along those lines.
Why would they do that though? I'm really not tracking why that would be good. (likely because it is post midnight and I'm still up)
-
Also, I know it is likely that scum would go for roleblocker early in the draft. But I'm not sure that we can even assume they had to because no other townie (that was alive to claim at the mass claim) went for slot 3, so scum might have got lucky and hit it with a late draft pick.
-
There's one more scenario that's possible that we haven't thought of: one of our dead VTs could have gotten draft #2 and gone for slot #1.
-
I think Space is most likely to be #2 of us, but AFAIK not that likely. I think it's quite likely they switched up some of the draft positions the VT scum got.
What do you mean switched up draft positions? You mean claimed one from a vt scum?
I mean LaLight claims draft position 5 or W/E and Iguana claims 11 or W/E but really LaLight had 11 and Iguana had 5. Not a likely example but something along those lines.
Why would they do that though? I'm really not tracking why that would be good. (likely because it is post midnight and I'm still up)
it messes up our attempts at draft analysis. I don't see why they wouldn't, it's what I would do.
-
There's one more scenario that's possible that we haven't thought of: one of our dead VTs could have gotten draft #2 and gone for slot #1.
We've all discussed that already. Possible, yes. Likely, no.
Unless they get crazy unlucky and Draft #1 for some reason doesn't go for slot #1, then they're passing on a guaranteed PR to attempt to take a slot that in all likelihood they fail to get. It doesn't make sense.
Unless they were ABSOLUTELY convinced Draft #1 would go for HH, it's a waste of a draft for #2 to bid slot 1.
-
So if we were to judge who left would be the most likely to end up at #2, I would probably have to say Space I guess, assuming you (Galz) and O are telling the truth about not paying attention or going back to figure stuff out before bidding. I don't know much about sudgy, but since I joined this past Fall, Space was already decently established and even modded the newbie game I was in (not my first game though). They are also very analytical and math oriented, so that's points against them.
I joined in July last year, so I'm barely more experienced than you. I co-modded NM9 and RMM38 with Haddock; we're IRL friends and he's the one who brought me into the f.ds fold for mafia-playing, so modding the newbie game was my chance to learn some ropes. NM8 was the one I was an almost-newbie in :-) My first game was M85 (which started just before M84).
I think faust already established that the person who got slot #2 must have guessed the correct game to be shot to the top of the list, right? He said the solution was M19 (see post #2678) so we're looking for a game that is waaaay before my time or yours, Dylan. I'm pretty sure that elsewhere on the forum, I've stated that I've never gone back and read the older games because I just don't have the time :-(
Here's a comment from faust that could be quite relevant now:
We should let the information come in from all the players first then analyse it when they've decided on their story. Town!faust should find this precaution really obvious...
I will likely not be around to analyze it then, so sorry, but I have to work with this information. I will be VLA from tomorrow until Monday.
I'm not saying don't work with it, I'm saying don't work with it out loud in the thread. Make cases out of it if you can, and vote and stuff, but honestly, what good are you doing town by posting a summarized list at this point?
I am trying to figure stuff out. It helps my thought process. I did not think a whole lot before posting it, but if I'm going to make arguments off the claims, then people need to see where my arguments comes from. For example, the large cap after spot one indicates that one highly-ordered scum fakeclaimed Calamitas' bidding spot. Which means we should be looking for scum among people who ranked low but are likely to have guessed M19 as the favorite game. That's O in particular.
.. though then O breaks the theory by pointing out that he didn't play in M19 and had left before then.
O then points out that Galz and mcmc won M19, and from his sig, we can see that Galz was scum in that game, so let's assume it's going to have been quite an enjoyable victory for him. But Galz is the one player whose slot we know isn't a lie, because if Galz lied about having taken slot 11 then O would have picked up a PR from 11 when he bid for it one place later than Galz. Galz could have had draft position #2 and bid for slot 11, but that seems like a supremely weird allocation of scum bids.
that's what I am thinking, 2nd slot has not claimed. That might be gkrieg, yeah, but maybe it's scum with a PR and the real scum took Calamitas' slot.
@faust, how did the thing with "who might choose M19 as favorite" ended?
We know that someone did because Jimmmm chose it.
Galzria, sudgy, Cuzz were in that game. It could be Cuzz getting unlucky. Galzria does not make too much sense given that his claim mostly fits. So that would leave sudgy.
Cuzz flipped town. Galz has the issues stated above with being at #2. Might sudgy have picked M19? Ah.. we're not even looking for sudgy's favourite game, we're looking for the game sudgy was most likely to have picked as other people's favourite game, so knowing that mcmc and Galz won it as scum is actually more important than whether it went well for sudgy himself.
-
I would bet even odds that LaLight was draft slot 2. Though Godfather isn't so amazing that it's worth a draft order 2 vote, so idk. But LaLight seems like an easy pick for being high on the draft order having read all the games?
-
I guess the good options for scum are more limited since Hammer Hero gets quite awkward. And it's not like the current most likely possibilities for #2 draft role, Roleblocker/Strongman, are just clearly better
-
I would bet even odds that LaLight was draft slot 2. Though Godfather isn't so amazing that it's worth a draft order 2 vote, so idk. But LaLight seems like an easy pick for being high on the draft order having read all the games?
Yeah, I don't think Godfatherer is the thing that the highest-placed scum goes for, but of course the scums would need to pick roles that fit with their own style of play, too. Why move LL down the draft order from #2, but then put him at #5, though? His VT claim at draft position 5 was actually less believable than it would have been at draft position 2, and his claim stuck out enough that I used it as evidence towards his lynch.
The thing about position 2 is that the person could have been pretty wrong or out of date on knowing everything about all the current players and still have scored up there by getting the M19 part correct.. that rockets him almost to the top of the pack on its own.
I agree with you that thinking about how scum might have spread their choices is probably a good idea. Whichever person is the actual last scum (except for Galz), we know that an actual scum (be it the person in question, or possibly Calamitas) is very likely to have their exact draft position, and in the case of sudgy and Dylan, probably has their exact slot bid as well, since neither seemed safe to lie about at the time the claiming exercise happened.
So, with that reasoning:
In the case of scum!sudgy, that would mean that even if he was draft #2, there was probably a scum at draft #7 who bid for slot 6 and ended up a goon. What were they after there in slot 6? Is 1-shot bus driver such a hot scum power that it's the one to go for after RB and Godfatherer? Does the third-ranked scum go for bus driver? Or is the idea to knock town-useful roles out of their slot to reduce the chance of things like UB or Masons being in the game?
In the case of scum!Dylan, we think there was a scum at draft position 8 who went for slot 13 and ended up a goon. That seems a bit more plausible. But I feel like Dylan is by far the least likely of you to have picked M19. So with a low likelihood we'd have Dylan-draft2-RB, LL-draft5-godfatherer, Calamitas/ash/iguana-draft8-slot13 and so on down. And with a higher likelihood, LL would have been the top scum draft and Dylan the second-top... so does the second-top one go for slot 13?
In the case of scum!O, we only have his word that he wasn't aware of what was going on around M19, but it still seems unlikely that he'd rank up there, and faust seemed to accept that reasoning earlier in the game. So again, we have a low-likelihood of him being an RB at draft2, or we accept that scum thought that their lowest-placed member should go for RB, or we assume that they mixed up their claims a lot, so say ash was actually at #20.. that would pay off now, having O left as a really low number in the draft, but what motivation was there at the time of the claim exercise for them to renumber themselves that way? They wouldn't have known that O was going outlast the rest. Same argument is actually applicable to any of these.
Galz is the complicated case, because I don't see any way that he didn't go for slot 11 even if he was at draft2, because somebody above O in the order needs to have taken a PR from that slot.
PPE 0, but more thinking: maybe taking slot 13 out high up in the ordering is good not for what roles it offers, but for the chance of knocking roles out of the game. If LL had Godfatherer, maybe the most efficient way to ensure that the town-useful roles from that slot and others (like Tracker and BP) aren't there is for scum to try to mop up the random slots at the end...
I'm not sure these musings are really helping narrow down the choices a lot :-(
-
I didn't realize sudgy was in that game. Having calamitas right before would make sense, because I feel like he would be like me and have a pretty good grasp on current reputations on the most feared or respected players, but probably not the historical most fun game. I'm back to having sudgy as my preferred lynch now.
I know from your perspective it really means nothing, but I voted for M97 and then guessed M80. I thought there were enough people here that were in that game that it had a chance.
-
I didn't realize sudgy was in that game.
Well, faust said so at #3387 (one of the quotes I used a few posts ago). One (or maybe all!) of us should go and look at the game for sure if we're going to use that as part of a case on sudgy, though! Today is my not-much-time-for-mafia day because I'm going to be out at Board Games night till late... I'm only posting from the office this afternoon because it's been 32 degrees in here for much of the day and my brain has been somewhat melting and quite distractable.
Having calamitas right before would make sense, because I feel like he would be like me and have a pretty good grasp on current reputations on the most feared or respected players, but probably not the historical most fun game. I'm back to having sudgy as my preferred lynch now.
I'm pretty sure I'd earlier said how it wouldn't surprise me if draft position 19 (the one RR and e fought about) had been Calamitas's, because I was at draft position 18, and it wouldn't have surprised me if he'd been approximately the same as me :-P
-
I didn't realize sudgy was in that game.
Well, faust said so at #3387 (one of the quotes I used a few posts ago). One (or maybe all!) of us should go and look at the game for sure if we're going to use that as part of a case on sudgy, though! Today is my not-much-time-for-mafia day because I'm going to be out at Board Games night till late... I'm only posting from the office this afternoon because it's been 32 degrees in here for much of the day and my brain has been somewhat melting and quite distractable.
Having calamitas right before would make sense, because I feel like he would be like me and have a pretty good grasp on current reputations on the most feared or respected players, but probably not the historical most fun game. I'm back to having sudgy as my preferred lynch now.
I'm pretty sure I'd earlier said how it wouldn't surprise me if draft position 19 (the one RR and e fought about) had been Calamitas's, because I was at draft position 18, and it wouldn't have surprised me if he'd been approximately the same as me :-P
Yeah your quote alerted me to that fact.
RR flipped town, so that wasn't Cal's.
-
I didn't realize sudgy was in that game.
Well, faust said so at #3387 (one of the quotes I used a few posts ago). One (or maybe all!) of us should go and look at the game for sure if we're going to use that as part of a case on sudgy, though! Today is my not-much-time-for-mafia day because I'm going to be out at Board Games night till late... I'm only posting from the office this afternoon because it's been 32 degrees in here for much of the day and my brain has been somewhat melting and quite distractable.
Having calamitas right before would make sense, because I feel like he would be like me and have a pretty good grasp on current reputations on the most feared or respected players, but probably not the historical most fun game. I'm back to having sudgy as my preferred lynch now.
I'm pretty sure I'd earlier said how it wouldn't surprise me if draft position 19 (the one RR and e fought about) had been Calamitas's, because I was at draft position 18, and it wouldn't have surprised me if he'd been approximately the same as me :-P
Yeah your quote alerted me to that fact.
RR flipped town, so that wasn't Cal's.
Yeah, I realise it can't have been Cal's spot -- I just find it funny that we're all claiming similarity to Calamitas in terms of quite different drafting expectations :-)
-
I wasn't in M19. I didn't even know it was that well-liked until halfway through this game.
-
I wasn't in M19. I didn't even know it was that well-liked until halfway through this game.
To be more specific, I joined at M21 and I think M19 was just finishing up. I wasn't really looking at other games at all.
-
I didn't realize sudgy was in that game.
Well, faust said so at #3387 (one of the quotes I used a few posts ago). One (or maybe all!) of us should go and look at the game for sure if we're going to use that as part of a case on sudgy, though! Today is my not-much-time-for-mafia day because I'm going to be out at Board Games night till late... I'm only posting from the office this afternoon because it's been 32 degrees in here for much of the day and my brain has been somewhat melting and quite distractable.
Having calamitas right before would make sense, because I feel like he would be like me and have a pretty good grasp on current reputations on the most feared or respected players, but probably not the historical most fun game. I'm back to having sudgy as my preferred lynch now.
I'm pretty sure I'd earlier said how it wouldn't surprise me if draft position 19 (the one RR and e fought about) had been Calamitas's, because I was at draft position 18, and it wouldn't have surprised me if he'd been approximately the same as me :-P
Yeah your quote alerted me to that fact.
RR flipped town, so that wasn't Cal's.
Yeah, I realise it can't have been Cal's spot -- I just find it funny that we're all claiming similarity to Calamitas in terms of quite different drafting expectations :-)
Yeah, honestly, I would be the difference between 4-5 down to say 17-18 probably aren't very different. We probably would all include a mostly similar core group of players (faust, ash, gkrieg, etc) in those lists, and so it was just the remaining edge cases or the ordering of the one question that would be the difference. That would also contribute credibility to O being down below that I guess since he wouldn't be as familiar with the "new" vets that came around and established themselves after he left.
I'm going to go ahead and Vote: sudgy. Between my game-long read, the fact he was in the most popular game which would put him right at the top, and POE: I don't think Galz is scum because Occam's Razor with his claim and everything; As you've seen, I'm becoming more and more convinced O is town; Space has been a town-read of mine for a while, but I still need to reread before the end. Plus, I can't put my finger on why, but this:
There's one more scenario that's possible that we haven't thought of: one of our dead VTs could have gotten draft #2 and gone for slot #1.
feels very much like scum trying to deflect town away from a very accurate line of thinking.
PPE 2 found a quote where faust admitted he double checked and was wrong about sudgy in that game. I just looked and can confirm also. Sorry.
-
I didn't realize sudgy was in that game.
Well, faust said so at #3387 (one of the quotes I used a few posts ago). One (or maybe all!) of us should go and look at the game for sure if we're going to use that as part of a case on sudgy, though! Today is my not-much-time-for-mafia day because I'm going to be out at Board Games night till late... I'm only posting from the office this afternoon because it's been 32 degrees in here for much of the day and my brain has been somewhat melting and quite distractable.
Having calamitas right before would make sense, because I feel like he would be like me and have a pretty good grasp on current reputations on the most feared or respected players, but probably not the historical most fun game. I'm back to having sudgy as my preferred lynch now.
I'm pretty sure I'd earlier said how it wouldn't surprise me if draft position 19 (the one RR and e fought about) had been Calamitas's, because I was at draft position 18, and it wouldn't have surprised me if he'd been approximately the same as me :-P
Yeah your quote alerted me to that fact.
RR flipped town, so that wasn't Cal's.
Yeah, I realise it can't have been Cal's spot -- I just find it funny that we're all claiming similarity to Calamitas in terms of quite different drafting expectations :-)
Yeah, honestly, I would be the difference between 4-5 down to say 17-18 probably aren't very different. We probably would all include a mostly similar core group of players (faust, ash, gkrieg, etc) in those lists, and so it was just the remaining edge cases or the ordering of the one question that would be the difference. That would also contribute credibility to O being down below that I guess since he wouldn't be as familiar with the "new" vets that came around and established themselves after he left.
I'm going to go ahead and Vote: sudgy. Between my game-long read, the fact he was in the most popular game which would put him right at the top the fact he was here and would likely have seen some of the postgame chat, and POE: I don't think Galz is scum because Occam's Razor with his claim and everything; As you've seen, I'm becoming more and more convinced O is town; Space has been a town-read of mine for a while, but I still need to reread before the end. Plus, I can't put my finger on why, but this:
There's one more scenario that's possible that we haven't thought of: one of our dead VTs could have gotten draft #2 and gone for slot #1.
feels very much like scum trying to deflect town away from a very accurate line of thinking.
PPE 2 found a quote where faust admitted he double checked and was wrong about sudgy in that game. I just looked and can confirm also. Sorry.
Fixed for new info
-
Vote Count 8.3
Dylan32 (1): sudgy
sudgy (1): Dylan32
Not Voting (3): O, Galzria, SpaceAnemone
With 5 alive it takes 3 to lynch. Day 8 ends Tuesday, July 11, at 11:00 AM Forum Time.
-
I know you can only have my word, but I didn't really see anything about that game. The only thing I remember was that people weren't sure if it should have been normal or not. I was surprised to see that it was a favorite.
-
Galz, what do you think of Space?
Pretty consistently the most effort the past few days, but effort!=town.
I ask this mostly because my perception of the game is that we're on the Dylan&Sudgy lynch trains. Which is my first choice, so that's pretty good, but it's gonna suck if I lose because I dropped my Space!Scum read.
Whereas I've implied before enough times, if you're scum I'll simply take the L and tip my hat to you because lynching you is actually just a terrible plan regardless of who gets lynched and killed.
I'm definitely pretty close to willing to commit to Sudgy!Dylan. I'd put it at 75-25 odds that scums among those two (Space probably would have similar predictive odds, and Galzria lower since me/Space are both much more likely scum than Galzria).
-
Galz, what do you think of Space?
Pretty consistently the most effort the past few days, but effort!=town.
I ask this mostly because my perception of the game is that we're on the Dylan&Sudgy lynch trains. Which is my first choice, so that's pretty good, but it's gonna suck if I lose because I dropped my Space!Scum read.
Whereas I've implied before enough times, if you're scum I'll simply take the L and tip my hat to you because lynching you is actually just a terrible plan regardless of who gets lynched and killed.
I'm definitely pretty close to willing to commit to Sudgy!Dylan. I'd put it at 75-25 odds that scums among those two (Space probably would have similar predictive odds, and Galzria lower since me/Space are both much more likely scum than Galzria).
Space is really hard for me to get a read on because everything they do is so neutral. Right now I lean town based largely on the LaLight lynch - but I want to fully reread them trying to look past the analytical stuff.
There's definitely no doubt in my mind that - despite their late foray into f.ds Mafia - Space no doubt has the analytical capability of making as educated guess at favorite mafia game as anybody here. Certainly doesn't mean they're scum - but it wouldn't surprise me at all if Space took draft #2.
I have any entire non - holiday day off tomorrow. I'll need to work from home, but I'll be pretty much here and available all day!
-
I'm starting to get more concerned. I was hoping that we could settle the sudgy vs me thing--which is actually more artificial than any of the other 1v1s we've had this game, there's nothing concrete to even suggest it is an either or situation--a day earlier so that if you mislynched me and then sudgy flipped town or vice-versa, the two of us would be the two lynches before LYLO rather than the last two to let scum steal the win. Since that is what yesterday seemed to be shaping up to until the late pivot to RR (pushed strongly by Space), I actually think scum (whether Space or O) was either pushing for or excited for the chance to leave the false dichotomy in the game to give them a chance to steal. This realization has just made me seriously doubt Space, even though I generally (meaning in most games) agree with and town read them for their analysis and stuff. That late pivot might just have been just opportunistic enough thanks to RR being RR to give them the chance they needed to push back the two most obvious mislynches. unvote while I think and until I can read.
-
Also, please don't let this die out guys. Scum wants the thread to maintain the status quo... Space and sudgy, you are past 24 hours. O is a half hour away.
-
And yes, I was a couple hours past 24 also before you point it out.
-
I think once RoadRunner did his stuff yesterday there was no way he was living longer than today anyways. What possible "strong evidence" of towniness could a VT have in the first place? None of the draft claiming shenanigans could provide that, really.
Vote: Dylan gutshot stronger scumread than Sudgy.
-
I think once RoadRunner did his stuff yesterday there was no way he was living longer than today anyways. What possible "strong evidence" of towniness could a VT have in the first place? None of the draft claiming shenanigans could provide that, really.
Vote: Dylan gutshot stronger scumread than Sudgy.
Like I said, that was typical RR and shouldn't have been jumped on the way it was. I know you wouldn't know that, but Space should have...
-
I think once RoadRunner did his stuff yesterday there was no way he was living longer than today anyways. What possible "strong evidence" of towniness could a VT have in the first place? None of the draft claiming shenanigans could provide that, really.
Vote: Dylan gutshot stronger scumread than Sudgy.
And besides, I can't remember the last time any one who based their read on me on their gut actually was right (as either alignment). Space in particular has a hard time with it, as they town read me in every both scum games I've played with town!them (or at least believed my claim enough to wait and see if other flips implicated me first in our last one) and typically gut scum reads me in my town games.
-
I think once RoadRunner did his stuff yesterday there was no way he was living longer than today anyways. What possible "strong evidence" of towniness could a VT have in the first place? None of the draft claiming shenanigans could provide that, really.
Vote: Dylan gutshot stronger scumread than Sudgy.
And besides, I can't remember the last time any one who based their read on me on their gut actually was right (as either alignment). Space in particular has a hard time with it, as they town read me in every both scum games I've played with town!them (or at least believed my claim enough to wait and see if other flips implicated me first in our last one) and typically gut scum reads me in my town games.
This isn't a full on "i'm randomly picking Dylan out of a large group as scummy" though. It's "I'm choosing between Dylan and Sudgy and I vaugely feel Dylan is scummier"
-
I think once RoadRunner did his stuff yesterday there was no way he was living longer than today anyways. What possible "strong evidence" of towniness could a VT have in the first place? None of the draft claiming shenanigans could provide that, really.
Vote: Dylan gutshot stronger scumread than Sudgy.
And besides, I can't remember the last time any one who based their read on me on their gut actually was right (as either alignment). Space in particular has a hard time with it, as they town read me in every both scum games I've played with town!them (or at least believed my claim enough to wait and see if other flips implicated me first in our last one) and typically gut scum reads me in my town games.
This isn't a full on "i'm randomly picking Dylan out of a large group as scummy" though. It's "I'm choosing between Dylan and Sudgy and I vaugely feel Dylan is scummier"
Fair. sudgy was on more town and fewer scum lynches than me or Space. sudgy flipped their read and tried to shift from iguana to Space right as momentum built for iguana right before the lynch.
-
In fact, the only scum sudgy was on was Ash, and if scum wanted to bus, he was the obvious one since he wasn't going to make it regardless. There were still like 3-5ish people off wagon that were willing to lynch there.
-
He has done objectively scummy things, and yet you are "gutshot" scum reading me more than him...
-
I actually forgot he switched off Iguana unvote
e and Ashersky lynches are entirely junk analysis, and Sudgy is 0/2 on the relevant wagons while Dylan is 2/0
-
But my internal logic puts you in a bit of a bind Dylan --- scum should theoretically care a lot more about being lynched today than town, especially when town!Dylan professes that Sudgy is his most likely scum read he should be relatively less panicked about being lynched if Sudgy is on the plate tomorrow.
-
I could definitely be persuaded to switch to Space. I feel like Space and Dylan are the people I would be willing to lynch. I still don't have too strong of scumreads, though. It's mainly that I don't have townreads of either of you, whereas I do on O and Galzria's in an interesting situation.
-
But my internal logic puts you in a bit of a bind Dylan --- scum should theoretically care a lot more about being lynched today than town, especially when town!Dylan professes that Sudgy is his most likely scum read he should be relatively less panicked about being lynched if Sudgy is on the plate tomorrow.
I said when the sudgy v me thing first started that I was willing to go 1 for 1 with him even if he flipped town. That was before doing so would cost us the game though, so now I'm a bit more hesitant because I want to make sure he's scum before I go along with letting you lynch me then him.
-
I also have no way of knowing for sure that you would follow through on lynching sudgy tomorrow since we have no way of proving 100% he's scum since rb/strongman
-
Then again, Space did get LL lynched. Argh!
-
There's definitely no doubt in my mind that - despite their late foray into f.ds Mafia - Space no doubt has the analytical capability of making as educated guess at favorite mafia game as anybody here. Certainly doesn't mean they're scum - but it wouldn't surprise me at all if Space took draft #2.
Haha.. you'll laugh when you see my bidding phase answers to Robz in the QT after the game :-P There was no way I was getting to spot #2. I mean I'm logical, and as a research scientist I do a lot of data analysis by for a living (and because that's just the way my brain works), but I'm not someone who gets people a lot, or gets into other people's heads well, which is kind of what Robz's task was asking for. Also, I work in a start-up company I co-founded relatively recently, so when I seem busy it's because I literally end up working through lots of weekends and evenings trying to keep up with deadlines I'm pretty invested in... so reading the back-catalog of 80+ games from before my time is really not something I'm expecting to do :-(
(Just responding to this quickly so you guys know I'm still around! Will get into more in a minute, but the other things take more thinking to reply to. Also, it's already super-late here (after 2am) so I probably can't stay long before needing sleep..)
-
Let's refactor my big chunk of reasoning from yesterday that the rest of you don't seem to be commenting on, in the hope that someone else out there can help flesh it out a bit.
First up, let's examine the case for scum!sudgy.
Possibility 1: He guessed the right game and ended up at sport #2. He claims he joined a little too late for that to be the case. Maybe he'd have seen it alluded to in later games, though, especially if it's the kind of thing several others have picked as their favourite game. Of all the players, he seems the most likely out of all of us to be the #2 person, because O left too early (and the "he was almost around at the right time" argument doesn't work backwards in time!), Galz really seems to have picked slot 11 (which would be totally bizarre as a draft-order-2 choice), and Dylan and I joined way too late. If this is the case, it seems exceedingly likely that one of the other scums (for instance ash) had the draft position he's claimed now, and bid on slot 6 as he claimed.
Possibility 2: He really was at draft position 7, but can't be just a goon because if sudgy is scum Galz is lying, so must have bid on slot 3 (roleblocker) or slot 8 (strongman). The only way it could have been safe to claim that he went for UB is if he knew another scum placed above him actually did go for that slot after Jimmmmm in the ordering, which is only possible if e lied about his draft position and that position was actually occupied by scum. So I don't think a scum!sudgy at draft position 7 can have done anything other than hazard a guess at slot 6 being safe on the grounds that he knows someone took something from it and hopes it was someone above him in the precedence order. Oh, and it wasn't even just slot 6, it was the UB role in particular. If one of the people in the "random" slots (11-13) had seen UB in their options, that would have rumbled sudgy on the spot, so I think that's just too big a risk. (And note that that risk isn't present for someone like Dylan who only had to claim a slot and not a particular role).
Possibility 3: He was at a lower draft position than he claimed, and one of the scum goons actually had the draft place and slot bid he claimed. That would make a certain amount of sense if someone like ash had actually been at position 7, and bid on bus driver from the slot 6. Though why do ash (or Calamitas or whoever) and sudgy then swap around the claims and push the holder of a good PR higher up the list? The slot 6 claim would have worked just as well at a lower slot.
The problem with all of these scenarios is that one of two things has to have happened:
1) Scum took their second- or third-highest-drafted player and had them bid on UB or something else in slot 6. This is something that has to be explained even if we think sudgy was at draft order 2 and merely claiming Calamitas's spot and bid, because why would Calamitas have made that bid?
2) Sudgy made a hopelessly risky fake-claim, butting much more info out there than he would have needed to at that stage in the claiming exercise. Given that we know he has to be holding the RB or strongman, he had no guarantee that the PR he actually claimed hadn't ended up in one of slots 11-13 to make him instantly counterclaimable.
... so anyone wanting to encourage us to vote sudgy needs to have an explanation for this stuff. I mean, it's also entirely possible that sudgy isn't playing as we'd expect, and did just take what might look like an ill-judged gamble with the claim that's now actually paying off, but if we believe that's the best explanation we should be willing to talk about it..
-
Now for scum!Dylan.
Possibility 1: He guessed the right game and ended up at sport #2. He joined a little while after I did, so I'm happy to consider this a very unlikely scenario. Though I think he's also pretty young (like high school age rather than university, even?), so maybe he's got more free time on his hands than I do. Still, for Dylan to be able to safe-claim slot 13 at draft position 8, he needs a scum colleague who placed there and bid that in order to make a safeclaim, otherwise it's definitely safer for him to say he drafted in spot #2 and went for IC or something.
Possibility 2: He really was at draft position 8, but can't be just a goon because if Dylan is scum Galz is lying, so must have bid on slot 3 (roleblocker) or slot 8 (strongman). It's definitely not possible for him to have been sure slot 13 was safe to claim, because sudgy is the only person between e-the-SK and Dylan, and in the scum!Dylan situation, sudgy is definite town. Perhaps slot 13 is starting to look desirable high enough up in the draft order that scums sincerely thought it would be taken by position 8, but I feel it's kind of unlikely.
Possibility 3: Dylan was actually lower in the order than 8, and someone else occupied the draft position 8 slot, and bid for slot 13 but didn't get it. That's more plausible than in my scum!sudgy case, because I can see a much more convincing narrative for a scum placed second or third out of the scums to want to take out an information-heavy random slot. I'm still not sure it's their optimal distribution of PR bids, though.
Gah, I'm getting really tired and it's gone 3am, so this is less worked-out that sudgy's one, I feel. Please expand for me..
-
Also, another thing I think might be worth looking at is hypothesizing a bunch of possible scum draft order placements and seeing if the proposed set of roles they'd have bid on at the different draft order places feels plausible.
-
Space, that's not entirely accurate.
He could've bid on (or a teammate bid on) and failed to get UB because Mason was already taken - and this would not have prevented UB from appearing in the random slots. Any unchosen PR, from any slot, could appear in slots 11/12/13. It doesn't matter if somebody bid them or not - only that they weren't previously acquired.
-
Lastly, the bits of consideration we've been doing where scum has control of the draft order 2 position assume that gkrieg isn't draft order 2. I've realised that given the distribution of unclaimed slots, that means that unless a scum has made a very lucky guess at fake-claiming gkrieg's draft spot, then gkrieg must be down at at least 16, maybe 22/23. How likely does that feel to the rest of you? Galz/sudgy, how much was gkrieg around back in the days around or a little bit after M19?
I feel like we should expect gkrieg to have placed earlier than 16th position in the draft, because he's been around for ages, knows the players well, is mod a lot and all that kind of stuff. So that's making me question whether the scum-has-draft-order-2 theory is as quite as plausible as I thought it was yesterday. But more input/thoughts would be helpful, especially from the old-timers.
PPE 1
-
Space, that's not entirely accurate.
He could've bid on (or a teammate bid on) and failed to get UB because Mason was already taken - and this would not have prevented UB from appearing in the random slots. Any unchosen PR, from any slot, could appear in slots 11/12/13. It doesn't matter if somebody bid them or not - only that they weren't previously acquired.
Ah, of course you're right. Sorry! Not sure where that thought came from :-( At least that explains why that part of the thinking wasn't in my breakdown from previously. I'm really sleepy.
-
Hold up.
We know Faust guessed M-19 and got bid #1... But unless I missed it Jimmm never gave us his guess and he was bid #3. What evidence do we have to show that anybody except (or maybe not even?) Faust got the game right?
-
Hold up.
We know Faust guessed M-19 and got bid #1... But unless I missed it Jimmm never gave us his guess and he was bid #3. What evidence do we have to show that anybody except (or maybe not even?) Faust got the game right?
I thought he said somewhere that he guessed the game.
Also, darn it Space, now you're making Dylan seem less scummy.
-
Nvm, Jimmm guessed Deep Space 9
-
I think once RoadRunner did his stuff yesterday there was no way he was living longer than today anyways. What possible "strong evidence" of towniness could a VT have in the first place? None of the draft claiming shenanigans could provide that, really.
Vote: Dylan gutshot stronger scumread than Sudgy.
Like I said, that was typical RR and shouldn't have been jumped on the way it was. I know you wouldn't know that, but Space should have...
Okay, last reply before I go to bed!
I'd had a paranoid epiphany moment where I was convinced the final scum was RR. Note that he's just won as scum in a game where he was lurking and making the odd smart comment and generally not engaging in logic or useful discussions and stuff. My favourite adjective for him is "quirky": when he wins, he tends to do so by methods other than logic and argument. I definitely pushed for him because I thought he was the scum, but one of the reasons that was easy was that he's not a player who was going to be contributing to discussions today.. I think having more logical players to help puzzle over the full game's-worth of factoids is healthy for us, though it would have been super-cool to have correctly lynched scum five days running.
-
I need to Unvote and think of things more. It's getting harder to believe that Dylan is scum.
-
Vote: Sudgy
Sorry Sud's. I've been scum reading you the past two days (where my vote choice was when iguana was lynched, and where it was prior to switching to RR) - and while you may not in fact be scum I think the odds are much higher that you are than they are on O, Space or Dylan. With those three the scum narrative is really convoluted - with you it's not. Occams Razor.
-
I'll be as busy as usual this weekend. Not much time to do anything except read.
-
If we really want to get down to it, I ought to vote O on the grounds that he's the only person (other than me) who could have known with certainty that his fake-claim was safe. I need more thinking there though, because I did just re-read him and fail to really understand Awaclus's tunnel...
Anyway, I feel like reasoning around claims and roles is what will help us more than reasoning around the wifom of who would have killed whom. More tomorrow, I hope... I'm not sure this post is as on-point as I want it to be because I'm sleepy.. I may be conflating the issue about how likely the given fake claims are to have been safe with the issue about how likely they are to be given as fake claims in the first place if they weren't known to be safe, and what the actual slots and roles could have been instead. G'ngiht!
To try and push back against the claim analysis, I just had a realization
All the talk about "safe" claims also ignore (I think) that we had a dead vanilla scum before the massclaim who could provides a free "safe" claim for the scum claiming
Calamitas was Vanilla scum. Any PR scum that wanted to hide as VT could simply claim Calamitas's draft role/slot knowing it wouldn't be counterclaimed.
Because of this, I'd appreciate it if you at least addressed my other argument, summarized below:
1. It is reasonable and likely to expect that I am very far down on the draft order given my prior knowledge of players here
1a. Throughout D1-D3 I made several comments that hinted at #1 before the massclaim
2. It is reasonable and likely that someone so far down the draft order would try to grab slot 11, the least desirable slot. In fact, we know this happened because at least either me or Galz is telling the truth, and we both claimed low draft order and slot 11.
3. It is most probable the the remaining scum is a Godfatherer or Roleblocker, and those slots were desirable enough for it likely to be someone high on the draft order to get.
So I actually think there might have been a town slip in there. How likely is scum to actually not remember what roles their (all dead and flipped) partners had?
unvote
Actually, coming back to this while re-reading some other recent content of O's, I think it reads more like a scumslip than a townslip.
A) We know at this stage in the game that either Galz is scum, or scum has a RB or strongman in order to kill in spite of his JKing last night.
B) O in particular has been quite vocal about how much he thinks Galz is town, so we need to assume that he should believe the other scum is able to counter Galz's JKing, which Godfatherer can't do.
C) This means that O was trying to say "Strongman or Rolebloacker" when listing the PRs that the remaining scum most likely holds.
So maybe when typing out his case, he accidentally paired Roleblocker with Godfatherer because that's the pair of roles that scum actually had/has, rather than pairing Roleblocker with Strongman like he meant to?
It's not a watertight case on O. Kind of barely splashproof, really. But it's at least an argument to be careful assigning townpoints to it as a townslip.
-
Vote Count 8.4
sudgy (1): Galzria
Not Voting (4): SpaceAnemone, Dylan32, O, sudgy
With 5 alive it takes 3 to lynch. Day 8 ends Tuesday, July 11, at 11:00 AM Forum Time.
-
Re Space: I am out of college (as of this past spring), so I'm older than you are giving me credit.
Let's refactor my big chunk of reasoning from yesterday that the rest of you don't seem to be commenting on, in the hope that someone else out there can help flesh it out a bit.
First up, let's examine the case for scum!sudgy.
Possibility 1: He guessed the right game and ended up at sport #2. He claims he joined a little too late for that to be the case. Maybe he'd have seen it alluded to in later games, though, especially if it's the kind of thing several others have picked as their favourite game. Of all the players, he seems the most likely out of all of us to be the #2 person, because O left too early (and the "he was almost around at the right time" argument doesn't work backwards in time!), Galz really seems to have picked slot 11 (which would be totally bizarre as a draft-order-2 choice), and Dylan and I joined way too late. If this is the case, it seems exceedingly likely that one of the other scums (for instance ash) had the draft position he's claimed now, and bid on slot 6 as he claimed.
Possibility 2: He really was at draft position 7, but can't be just a goon because if sudgy is scum Galz is lying, so must have bid on slot 3 (roleblocker) or slot 8 (strongman). The only way it could have been safe to claim that he went for UB is if he knew another scum placed above him actually did go for that slot after Jimmmmm in the ordering, which is only possible if e lied about his draft position and that position was actually occupied by scum. So I don't think a scum!sudgy at draft position 7 can have done anything other than hazard a guess at slot 6 being safe on the grounds that he knows someone took something from it and hopes it was someone above him in the precedence order. Oh, and it wasn't even just slot 6, it was the UB role in particular. If one of the people in the "random" slots (11-13) had seen UB in their options, that would have rumbled sudgy on the spot, so I think that's just too big a risk. (And note that that risk isn't present for someone like Dylan who only had to claim a slot and not a particular role).
Possibility 3: He was at a lower draft position than he claimed, and one of the scum goons actually had the draft place and slot bid he claimed. That would make a certain amount of sense if someone like ash had actually been at position 7, and bid on bus driver from the slot 6. Though why do ash (or Calamitas or whoever) and sudgy then swap around the claims and push the holder of a good PR higher up the list? The slot 6 claim would have worked just as well at a lower slot.
The problem with all of these scenarios is that one of two things has to have happened:
1) Scum took their second- or third-highest-drafted player and had them bid on UB or something else in slot 6. This is something that has to be explained even if we think sudgy was at draft order 2 and merely claiming Calamitas's spot and bid, because why would Calamitas have made that bid?
2) Sudgy made a hopelessly risky fake-claim, butting much more info out there than he would have needed to at that stage in the claiming exercise. Given that we know he has to be holding the RB or strongman, he had no guarantee that the PR he actually claimed hadn't ended up in one of slots 11-13 to make him instantly counterclaimable.
... so anyone wanting to encourage us to vote sudgy needs to have an explanation for this stuff. I mean, it's also entirely possible that sudgy isn't playing as we'd expect, and did just take what might look like an ill-judged gamble with the claim that's now actually paying off, but if we believe that's the best explanation we should be willing to talk about it..
You can't assume that scum was able to plan out their claims in such a way as to make it impossible to get caught. There were enough people alive that I don't think it would have been possible for them to completely cover themselves without at least some risk of getting caught. Of course they would minimize the risk, but I would imagine a claim that had a little bit of risk but good odds of working out are the more likely for scum that the rock solid claims.
(For all my posts from here on out, "#x" means draft position x, and I will specify "slot y")
Possibility 1: All scum!PR!sudgy would need to know was that scum had #7. We already knew there were masons in the game, so a reasonable gamble is that it was targeted pretty early, and likely by someone in the top half dozen or so. Remember also Calamitas died without claiming a #, and so sudgy drops to #7 safely, then educated gamble on slot 6.
Possibility 2: Educated guess since a mason had flip. Not much else was known at that point. Only Hammer Hero, Hider, and Mason were known at that time.
Possibility 3: I agree this just isn't likely. You could do it to try to confuse town or something, but you would think they would be trying to move the PRs down, because VT up top was likely to draw immediate suspicion to some extent.
Problem 1: I think the bus driver would have been worth it for scum if they had 3 people in the top 7 slots. Strongman/RB, Godfatherer, then 1 shot bus driver for a pinch would be a solid group of powers for scum (with the small chance of more from the lower guys).
Problem 2: Galz already said this basically, but all he had to do was worry about the slot. You bid on the slot, not the role. So the UB's presence in slots 11-13 means nothing to him since he was blocked for slot 6.
-
Re: Space's thoughts on O
Does anyone want to go through a few recent games and see how often Awaclus's tunnels are accurate? I know there was one recently where town lost but he was exactly right, but no one would listen to him because he was doing basically the same thing he was doing here.
-
I know you can't take my word for it, but take my word for it, I would hate trying something with any risk in it as scum if I had an alternative. To me, the only scum narrative would be me being exactly what I claimed (which at this point is impossible) or knowing that it wouldn't work because one of my scumbuddies had that happen.
-
I know you can't take my word for it, but take my word for it, I would hate trying something with any risk in it as scum if I had an alternative. To me, the only scum narrative would be me being exactly what I claimed (which at this point is impossible) or knowing that it wouldn't work because one of my scumbuddies had that happen.
I don't see any reason to doubt that if you had an alternative with no risk you would take it. However, given your spot towards the top of both the draft order and the mass claim order, I just don't think you had that alternative and that you did the best you could with your claim.
This all being said, the biggest thing against you is NOT the draft or anything like that. It is your actions and voting history. About all we can say about anything through however much draft analyzing we want to do is that no one here is trapped by their claim, almost everyone had some amount of risk (if assuming they are scum) but almost everyone (as scum) would have had at least some reason to think their claim would be safe. I know I've been doing quite a bit of it, but I really don't think speculation on the draft is helping us very much where we should be looking at interactions and stuff. That would likely be more insightful at this point.
-
Time to give scum!O the same treatment as scum!sudgy and scum!Dylan.
Possibility 1: He guessed the right game and ended up at sport #2. It seems a bit unlikely if he'd stopped playing before the game happened, and it looks like he wasn't involved between M13 and M100, and barely existed elsewhere on f.ds at all in those intervening years either.
Possibility 2: He really was at draft position 21. This makes total sense for someone who doesn't know any of the newer players, and it's also entirely possible both with his claim (because Galz had already said he was draft position 20 and slot 11 by then). It's also looking entirely possible for him to have picked up either roleblocker or strongman from draft order 21, because we have no evidence of any townies having gone for slot 3 or slot 8. The only thing that makes this marginally less likely is the fact that the lowest-placed scum would be bidding for a decent power role (i.e. if scum!O was bidding for RB, what were the higher-placed scums bidding for?). Maybe the higher-placed scums tried for roles that might be more in keeping with hiding out as town, though, and got beaten to the spots? I think this option isn't actually too unlikely.
Possibility 3: O was at some other position in the draft order, and traded down to Calamitas's vacant spot, or to the spot held by another scum goon. Totally possible, and he doesn't even have to have claimed to have bid for the same slot as that scum for this to have been possible, because Galz had claimed draft order and slot a long time before O claimed his slot. This is another totally possible option.
Possibility 4: O was at some other position in the draft order, and just took advantage of the fact that Awaclus left him till last in the claiming order to claim any old unclaimed place. The only people who claimed a slot after O were Awaclus, e and RR, in that order, and we already know that e was happy to try fake-claiming in that position. Sadly, because of Awaclus's not-really-explained tunnel, we never had the chance to catch him out in any part of the claiming exercise.
Have I missed any scenarios? Several of these seem quite a lot more possible that any of the Dylan/sudgy breakdown elements, so overall, I think O looks more likely to be scum if we take this kind of analysis in isolation. (Though I'm not suggesting we should ignore all the other kinds of evidence... I'm just compiling the stuff I'm better at thinking my way through, at least when I'm awake!).
-
@space
You don't seem to give me any credit for the numerous, numerous softclaims about my draft position. They started effectively day one and continued all the way until the claim.
Why would I come to the conclusion of voting for LaLight day one because of PR likelihood?
Why would I back up Galzria's claim instantly?
And for the "scumslip", it's certainly not a townslip either but yes I did switch up LaLights flip and the roles I intended to say. This is mostly because 1. I was looking back at the slot claims and what scum got before making the post and 2. I actually keep forgetting what Godfather does and having to look back at it..
-
You don't seem to give me any credit for the numerous, numerous softclaims about my draft position. They started effectively day one and continued all the way until the claim.
Of course not -- I'm summarising possible cases for how we've ended up in this claiming situation based purely on what could have happened in the drafting and claiming process because whatever situation we think looks likely based on behaviour, it's also got to stack up with opportunity and risk. I already did a full re-read of your early game a week or so ago (like before we lynched RR) and said you didn't seem that scummy. But it would be remiss of me not to acknowledge that in terms of the claims at least, you appear to be the player with the safest opportunity to be hiding a scum PR.
If we go on wagon analysis, there's plenty that points to one of Dylan and sudgy being the missing scum. If we go on play, sudgy looks lurkier than Dylan, but their voting patterns in D1 and D2 are so similar it's hard to see what the differentiators should be without having something else to go on. What I'd really like town to be doing right now is contributing lots of different orthogonal analyses to build on each other's reads and scum-likelihood assertions. I can tell you right now that I'm really not good at the tone and language subtleties sorts of reads, so if someone else can read between all the lines in terms of who's feeling the pressure and acting like they're under siege at various points in the game, that would be especially useful.
-
Re Space: I am out of college (as of this past spring), so I'm older than you are giving me credit.
Sorry! Absolutely didn't mean to cause any offence here! I'm old enough that I'd count being young as a bonus, not something to give credit for growing out of ;-) I probably got mixed up if you'd mentioned college/school at some point, and assumed you were referring to high school because words and terms for higher education are used differently here in the UK.
-
I just realized, I've been giving Galzria a pass until now, but at this point, he's either scum or a useless town PR. Maybe we should lynch him.
-
Re Space: I am out of college (as of this past spring), so I'm older than you are giving me credit.
Sorry! Absolutely didn't mean to cause any offence here! I'm old enough that I'd count being young as a bonus, not something to give credit for growing out of ;-) I probably got mixed up if you'd mentioned college/school at some point, and assumed you were referring to high school because words and terms for higher education are used differently here in the UK.
Lol there was no offence taken. I suspected it was that difference in terms that was at fault right away.
-
I just realized, I've been giving Galzria a pass until now, but at this point, he's either scum or a useless town PR. Maybe we should lynch him.
The problem is that we know at most one of Galz and O can be lying, and if Galz was lying and didn't take slot 11, then O would be lying (or a dead scum PR actually took 11). Galz could have taken a scum PR from slot 11 still, but it would have to be the roleblocker, because faust's N1 vig shot was blocked.
-
I just realized, I've been giving Galzria a pass until now, but at this point, he's either scum or a useless town PR. Maybe we should lynch him.
The problem is that we know at most one of Galz and O can be lying, and if Galz was lying and didn't take slot 11, then O would be lying (or a dead scum PR actually took 11). Galz could have taken a scum PR from slot 11 still, but it would have to be the roleblocker, because faust's N1 vig shot was blocked.
He could still be jailkeeper and have done everything he's claimed to have, and he could still be scum. I'm just saying that I for some stupid reason was giving him a pass based on his PR.
-
I just realized, I've been giving Galzria a pass until now, but at this point, he's either scum or a useless town PR. Maybe we should lynch him.
The problem is that we know at most one of Galz and O can be lying, and if Galz was lying and didn't take slot 11, then O would be lying (or a dead scum PR actually took 11). Galz could have taken a scum PR from slot 11 still, but it would have to be the roleblocker, because faust's N1 vig shot was blocked.
He could still be jailkeeper and have done everything he's claimed to have, and he could still be scum. I'm just saying that I for some stupid reason was giving him a pass based on his PR.
That first sentence doesn't read like I meant for it to. I'm saying that he could still be scum and jailkeeper at the same time.
-
I just realized, I've been giving Galzria a pass until now, but at this point, he's either scum or a useless town PR. Maybe we should lynch him.
The problem is that we know at most one of Galz and O can be lying, and if Galz was lying and didn't take slot 11, then O would be lying (or a dead scum PR actually took 11). Galz could have taken a scum PR from slot 11 still, but it would have to be the roleblocker, because faust's N1 vig shot was blocked.
Well, reading the setup paragraph, and JK could have been available to scum in the random slots also. Copy pasted from setup: "Mafia would not receive Innocent Child, Masonic Lover, or any Convert Serial Killer. (Everything else is on the table.)" So in theory, there could be a scum JK....
I still don't think Galz is best for today at all. And bringing that up seems like something of an attempt at misdirection.
PPE 2
-
Would Galzria really get #20? Some of the things picked were on the older side, so I feel like Galzria wouldn't have done that bad.
What do people think of claiming our picks for town and mafia? Maybe we could find someone who couldn't possibly be so low/high?
-
Would Galzria really get #20? Some of the things picked were on the older side, so I feel like Galzria wouldn't have done that bad.
What do people think of claiming our picks for town and mafia? Maybe we could find someone who couldn't possibly be so low/high?
Really, we probably should have done something similar a lot earlier so we had more accurate results.
Sudgy, you and I are most similar up top and we are both online now. If one of us posts before or after the other, (from a neutral perspective) there is a chance that the 2nd person could manipulate their answers to be more similar to the other if they are scum and know they need to be close. How about we type in our names and post them at an agreed upon time. O and Galz should do the same since they are right next to each other.
-
Robz, would us putting what we gave for our answers (not in an actual quote block) from our QT here in the thread be a rules violation as long as nothing you said is used?
-
Robz, would us putting what we gave for our answers (not in an actual quote block) from our QT here in the thread be a rules violation as long as nothing you said is used?
You can list your answers as long as you don't quote anything.
-
It will not be confirmed that those were your actual answers, of course.
-
I can tell you right now that I'm really not good at the tone and language subtleties sorts of reads, so if someone else can read between all the lines in terms of who's feeling the pressure and acting like they're under siege at various points in the game, that would be especially useful.
despite not adapting a computer based persona I tend to think tonal based arguments and scumslips are mostly crap and shouldn't be considered seriously when considering arguments from other people. I do think personal reads are valuable though since they're unqiuely town-provided info.
Wagon analysis points heavily to Sudgy. Likely draft role analysis points away from me and Galz, mostly.
@Dylan we missed the boat entirely for answer based claiming to be honest. 5/22 people just isn't useful, and me and Galz are non-representative voters of most people. But I did suggest early that I mostly looked for mods/frequent posters and put their names down arbitrarily, and that I got draft slot 22 off of such a strategy.
-
quotes suck
-
Would Galzria really get #20? Some of the things picked were on the older side, so I feel like Galzria wouldn't have done that bad.
What do people think of claiming our picks for town and mafia? Maybe we could find someone who couldn't possibly be so low/high?
Really, we probably should have done something similar a lot earlier so we had more accurate results.
Sudgy, you and I are most similar up top and we are both online now. If one of us posts before or after the other, (from a neutral perspective) there is a chance that the 2nd person could manipulate their answers to be more similar to the other if they are scum and know they need to be close. How about we type in our names and post them at an agreed upon time. O and Galz should do the same since they are right next to each other.
Sounds good, but now I've been away for a bit. Are you still there?
Actually, I feel like it would be better for the people at worse draft positions to go first. I'm willing to go first, but once the better drafts go first the other could know better how to fake it. I feel like the best way to do it would be for all of us to do it at the same time, but that doesn't sound feasible. I guess I'll be fine doing whatever we can, whenever we can.
-
Would Galzria really get #20? Some of the things picked were on the older side, so I feel like Galzria wouldn't have done that bad.
What do people think of claiming our picks for town and mafia? Maybe we could find someone who couldn't possibly be so low/high?
Really, we probably should have done something similar a lot earlier so we had more accurate results.
Sudgy, you and I are most similar up top and we are both online now. If one of us posts before or after the other, (from a neutral perspective) there is a chance that the 2nd person could manipulate their answers to be more similar to the other if they are scum and know they need to be close. How about we type in our names and post them at an agreed upon time. O and Galz should do the same since they are right next to each other.
Sounds good, but now I've been away for a bit. Are you still there?
Actually, I feel like it would be better for the people at worse draft positions to go first. I'm willing to go first, but once the better drafts go first the other could know better how to fake it. I feel like the best way to do it would be for all of us to do it at the same time, but that doesn't sound feasible. I guess I'll be fine doing whatever we can, whenever we can.
The ideal is all simultaneous, but I highly doubt that happens
-
I don't think it really matters too much. Maybe it would be slightly better if the lower people went first, but since you and I seem to be the two that people are wanting to go for, I think that's as good a reason as any for us to go first.
-
I'll have a reply with my answers typed up in another tab. Let me know when you have yours and we'll set a time then
-
Alright, how about at 9:05 forum time? Is that too fast?
And if others want to join us, that should be fine (except maybe O and Galzria).
-
Alright, how about at 9:05 forum time? Is that too fast?
And if others want to join us, that should be fine (except maybe O and Galzria).
Let me finish this game first so I won't miss it
-
Alright, how about at 9:05 forum time? Is that too fast?
And if others want to join us, that should be fine (except maybe O and Galzria).
Let me finish this game first so I won't miss it
Almost out on piles. 9:10 should be good, but I'll confirm before then
-
I gave M-2 (M-II) as my favorite. It was my first ever game of Mafia (and I WAS Mafia!). Robz and I communicated via PM at night.
I guessed M-87 after looking at the signup list here and trying to find a big game with a large number of people from this one in it. Don't think I put much more thought into it than that. I might've read some post game? I don't remember.
My "5 scariest Mafia team" was Eevee (can never read him as anything but town), Jimmm (flies way under the radar), Sudgy (a mini-Eevee) and two randoms because I didn't know how to read them (J Reggie & Calamitas).
I guessed the 5 most common choices to be Eevee, Jimmm, Faust, Ashersky, LaLight (my top 2, the two I think are most respected, and one random).
For town receiving powers I picked: mcmc, Jimmm, O, Eevee, Faust
My guess at most popular choices were: Ashersky, Eevee, Faust, mcmc, LaLight, Sudgy, Space, Galzria, e, O
You'll notice a pattern between the big names from my day being about 75% of my choices, mixed with about 25% new faces.
I don't think this exercise helps us any however. Not enough people to put any weight in choices, and if scum is lying about their draft spot I expect they'll have these results to back them up anyway.
-
I'm good. I could bump it up a couple minutes to 9:08 ish if that would work.
-
Sorry, was mobile posting and didn't PPE.
-
Still doubt it matters though.
-
I gave M-2 (M-II) as my favorite. It was my first ever game of Mafia (and I WAS Mafia!). Robz and I communicated via PM at night.
I guessed M-87 after looking at the signup list here and trying to find a big game with a large number of people from this one in it. Don't think I put much more thought into it than that. I might've read some post game? I don't remember.
My "5 scariest Mafia team" was Eevee (can never read him as anything but town), Jimmm (flies way under the radar), Sudgy (a mini-Eevee) and two randoms because I didn't know how to read them (J Reggie & Calamitas).
I guessed the 5 most common choices to be Eevee, Jimmm, Faust, Ashersky, LaLight (my top 2, the two I think are most respected, and one random).
For town receiving powers I picked: mcmc, Jimmm, O, Eevee, Faust
My guess at most popular choices were: Ashersky, Eevee, Faust, mcmc, LaLight, Sudgy, Space, Galzria, e, O
You'll notice a pattern between the big names from my day being about 75% of my choices, mixed with about 25% new faces.
I don't think this exercise helps us any however. Not enough people to put any weight in choices, and if scum is lying about their draft spot I expect they'll have these results to back them up anyway.
I doubt scum shared the exact answers, and with sudgy and I one spot away in the order, if the other person has way different answers, they will be conf scum to the other one who is town.
-
I'm ready for 9:08.
-
What I said:
Scum: ashersky, Awaclus, Galzria, Jimmmmm, LaLight
Town: gkrieg, faust, Galzria, 2.71828....., Eevee
What I guessed:
Scum: ashersky, pingpongsam, gkrieg, Galzria, Eevee
Town: Eevee, LaLight, Galzria, faust, 2.71828....., Calamitas, gkrieg, ashersky, Jimmmmm, iguanaiguana
Just so you know, I was not confident in most of these. I was shocked when I got #7.
-
1) faust, ash, awaclus, gkrieg, Calamitas
2) faust, gkrieg, ash, eevee, pps, Space, e, Calamitas, awaclus, Jimmmmm
3) 80
-
I gave M-2 (M-II) as my favorite. It was my first ever game of Mafia (and I WAS Mafia!). Robz and I communicated via PM at night.
I guessed M-87 after looking at the signup list here and trying to find a big game with a large number of people from this one in it. Don't think I put much more thought into it than that. I might've read some post game? I don't remember.
My "5 scariest Mafia team" was Eevee (can never read him as anything but town), Jimmm (flies way under the radar), Sudgy (a mini-Eevee) and two randoms because I didn't know how to read them (J Reggie & Calamitas).
I guessed the 5 most common choices to be Eevee, Jimmm, Faust, Ashersky, LaLight (my top 2, the two I think are most respected, and one random).
For town receiving powers I picked: mcmc, Jimmm, O, Eevee, Faust
My guess at most popular choices were: Ashersky, Eevee, Faust, mcmc, LaLight, Sudgy, Space, Galzria, e, O
You'll notice a pattern between the big names from my day being about 75% of my choices, mixed with about 25% new faces.
I don't think this exercise helps us any however. Not enough people to put any weight in choices, and if scum is lying about their draft spot I expect they'll have these results to back them up anyway.
I doubt scum shared the exact answers, and with sudgy and I one spot away in the order, if the other person has way different answers, they will be conf scum to the other one who is town.
It is literally the first thing I would've done if I was scum. There would be decent likelihood that it was brought up in game and would help give all sorts of information if trying to PR hunt.
-
I didn't see your confirmation come through until like 3 seconds before and hit it as soon as I could... Sorry PPE 1
-
I didn't see your confirmation come through until like 3 seconds before and hit it as soon as I could... Sorry PPE 1
No worries, I didn't realize that confirmation was so close.
Anyway, we're kind of close, so I'm not sure what that means...
-
And yeah those were only my guesses, not what I said.
-
Yeah, we probably should have done this sooner.
-
So we had 2 the same but both different order for scum and 7 similar with fairly different spots in the order. Idk what to make of this
-
So I'm pretty dang sure faust, ash, and gkrieg were all on #1, and pps probably was there unless people tended to think he was mislynched too often to really be scary.
-
apparently I'm a dirty liar? Or halfway so. I answered my personal questions differently than I suggested, but not the "for everyone" questions.
Personal:
1) Most Feared Mafia Team: Galzria, Faust, Gkrieg, Roadrunner, MCMC
2) Most hoped town PRs: Eevee, PPS, Ashersky, LaLight, Faust
3) Favorite Game: M8
Guesses for Everyone:
1) LaLight, Faust, E, Ashersky, Awaclus
2) same 5 plus Gkrieg, Sudgy, Andrew, TWM, Calamitas
3) Mafia 86
-
Well, both of yours seem to match up pretty well.
But some of yours seem to be kind of similar to mine too?
-
Well, both of yours seem to match up pretty well.
But some of yours seem to be kind of similar to mine too?
i think literally everyone put Ashersky LaLight Faust? it's really surprising that I got 22nd with these similarities.
-
Where's Space to analyze this stuff when you need her?
-
i wonder if it would have been legitimate meta for me to lie as town about these rankings, because i sure feel scummier claiming #22 with so many matches.
-
21*
-
I wonder how point ties were decided?
What happened if two mafia games were equally named favorite?
-
Remember, the order in which you had them mattered too. You got more points the closer you had them to the original spots. So everyone could match 7 out of 10 but the order is what will divide us up I bet.
-
Remember, the order in which you had them mattered too. You got more points the closer you had them to the original spots. So everyone could match 7 out of 10 but the order is what will divide us up I bet.
This isn't for the mafia, though.
-
Remember, the order in which you had them mattered too. You got more points the closer you had them to the original spots. So everyone could match 7 out of 10 but the order is what will divide us up I bet.
This isn't for the mafia, though.
Maybe not, but we had to list 10 town PRs, so unless they were weighted significantly differently, there seems like there would be more points in those 10 were order did matter. Going purely from memory here for the time being. Actually, I've gotta be up pretty early in the morning, so I'm gonna hit the sack. See ya on the other side (of the Earth's rotation).
-
Remember, the order in which you had them mattered too. You got more points the closer you had them to the original spots. So everyone could match 7 out of 10 but the order is what will divide us up I bet.
This isn't for the mafia, though.
Maybe not, but we had to list 10 town PRs, so unless they were weighted significantly differently, there seems like there would be more points in those 10 were order did matter. Going purely from memory here for the time being. Actually, I've gotta be up pretty early in the morning, so I'm gonna hit the sack. See ya on the other side (of the Earth's rotation).
The draft ordering process was as follows:
1. Correct guesses for question one were worth 5 points. Guessing the entire "most formidable" mafia team would have yielded 25 max points. (At least one player guessed all five.)
2. Correct guesses for question two were worth 3 points. 2 extra points were given for each guess that was ordered correctly. 1 point was subtracted for each wrong guess. A perfect score would have yielded 50 points if the answers were in the exact right order. Most players scored in the 15-20 range.
3. A correct answer here was worth 100 points--in practice, any player who got this right was automatically advanced to the front of the pack. (At least one player got this right.)
-
Huh.. I'd managed to get myself to bed about an hour before you started this new exercise! Here are my answers, though I also agree with the sentiment that it's far too late for this now :-P
Personal:
My most-feared scums: faust, Calamitas, gkrieg, mcmc and TWM.
Hoped-for PRs: Calamitas, LaLight, Eevee, PPS, Dylan. (Strong people who I asserted wouldn't get KNd early!).
Favourite Game: M92 (xkcd)
Guesses:
My most-feared scums: ashersky, faust, Awaclus, PPS, AndrewisFTTW. (Sticking to people I think others rate)
PRs: ash, faust, gkreig, e, Jimmmmm, mcmc, Galz, Awaclus, LaLight, Calamitas. (Mixing in a name or two from the pool of people I knew nothing about).
Game: M72 (I've not read it; it just looked long and had ash as a mod, so I assumed it was good. I'd hoped that guessing in the 60s or 70s would strike a balance between "living memory" and "classics").
-
Where's Space to analyze this stuff when you need her?
Space really should be asleep before 8pm forum time! It would be very healthy for your average anemone to be able to put the forum away by 7pm! At least I managed lights out before 8.30pm forum time yesterday :-)
I've kind of avoided wanting to analyse the ranking stuff because if I think too much about it, I'll probably have lots of feelings about the optimality of the algorithm chosen for the ranked list comparison, and that might look to the external observer a bit too much like sour grapes at having scored so low on the list! I did comment with surprise when we were first given the ranking task because I'd thought that algorithms weren't Robz's thing, but I failed to consider that a pragmatic approach might just be to pick a measure that sounds plausible and not care about the details. I usually forget how much other people aren't consumed by details :-(
-
So I just spent some time looking at our answers and comparing them, and it's at least plausible from my perspective that everyone is reasonably within the realm of what # they claimed. I'm going to stick with the evidence and vote: sudgy. I guess this is L-1. We only have a couple days left to the deadline, and they are as scummy as anyone in the game, so yeah, I'd like to stay here.
-
I'm still not sure who I want to vote for. I might not be around right at deadline (I'm at a slight offset from forum time), so it would be nice to get in a lynch by tomorrow night.
I would vote, but I'm not sure who I would want to, and nobody else really seems viable anyway.
-
vote: Sudgy
lets get this game on the road
-
Well, that's interesting.
-
You guys better lynch scum tomorrow.
-
And scum, if you win, very well deserved MVP.
-
We went 12 hours without a single post, then in 2 hours ended the day.
I'm still not sure who I want to vote for. I might not be around right at deadline (I'm at a slight offset from forum time), so it would be nice to get in a lynch by tomorrow night.
I would vote, but I'm not sure who I would want to, and nobody else really seems viable anyway.
They say there's a crazy one in every family, and if you don't know who it is, it's probably you. :P
-
We went 12 hours without a single post, then in 2 hours ended the day.
I'm still not sure who I want to vote for. I might not be around right at deadline (I'm at a slight offset from forum time), so it would be nice to get in a lynch by tomorrow night.
I would vote, but I'm not sure who I would want to, and nobody else really seems viable anyway.
They say there's a crazy one in every family, and if you don't know who it is, it's probably you. :P
...how does that apply in this situation?
-
"No one else really seems viable anyway." You couldn't tell who the scum among us is (hopefully because it's you)
-
"No one else really seems viable anyway." You couldn't tell who the scum among us is (hopefully because it's you)
It's not, though. I just got lynched and I'm not the mafia. It would be useless for me to say I'm not if I was the mafia at this point because then the game would be over.
-
Yea when the game is moving at a snails pace I often hammer quickly.
-
I'm still feeling pretty decent about this. Town!Sudgy would probably throw out a dying read.
-
I'm still feeling pretty decent about this. Town!Sudgy would probably throw out a dying read.
*Dying read incoming in 5, 4, 3, 2, ...*
-
I'm still feeling pretty decent about this. Town!Sudgy would probably throw out a dying read.
That's the problem. I don't really have any reads. Like I said, it's stupid for me to say I'm town if I am mafia at this stage in the game. If I'm mafia, the game is over. Done. I have absolutely no reason to keep up the charade any longer. But I'm not, so I still want to help town. Maybe we can try to do something productive in twilight rather than argue over whether I actually am scum.
-
I'm still feeling pretty decent about this. Town!Sudgy would probably throw out a dying read.
*Dying read incoming in 5, 4, 3, 2, ...*
Nope.
-
At least I won't have to make the decision on the final day. I was not looking forward to rereading everything.
-
LaLight doing post-death shenanigans was just as useless.
-
LaLight doing post-death shenanigans was just as useless.
When the game is still going on, it can be absolutely productive. He can taint the way people read that stuff. At this point it is absolutely, 100% useless (baring for fun, but it's not fun trying to convince people you're town when have 100% proof anyways).
-
I was maybe going to try to do something productive in this time now that you know I'm town, but you all don't seem to want to, so I'm out of here.
-
Thread locked.
-
Vote Count 8.Final
sudgy (3): Galzria, Dylan32, O
Not Voting (2): SpaceAnemone, sudgy
With 5 alive it took 3 to lynch.
-
Sorry guys, I'm behind. Like haven't even read - behind. I'll try to get to it tonight.
Undercontributing Eevee is a scum tell. You posts since you said this.
It's still tonight, I'm not done. I have a friend over, but I'm trying to finish the read of day 2 today,
You've falsely called undercontributing Eevee scum Eevee 4 games in a row now though!
At least I'm consistent.
Mcmc, I think you are GREATLY exaggareting how solid your liopoil-case is.
I'm town you wrong. Also I said that I reread eevee(town) in pirates(I was scum) and made a case on him the same way. So I was saying if it looked alot like my scum case on eevee that was why. Also omg liopoil and me are a scum team!!!!! I would not by any means make this case if that was so. I do not bus teammates like this because it is bad. It shows connection if one of you flips scum(I have talked about tying to a townie all the time) However I agree liopoil is scummy the way he is responding with no omgus(He used to, I think he's better now)
I'm town you wrong. Also I said that I reread eevee(town) in pirates(I was scum) and made a case on him the same way. So I was saying if it looked alot like my scum case on eevee that was why. Also omg liopoil and me are a scum team!!!!! I would not by any means make this case if that was so. I do not bus teammates like this because it is bad. It shows connection if one of you flips scum(I have talked about tying to a townie all the time) However I agree liopoil is scummy the way he is responding with no omgus(He used to, I think he's better now)
I have bolded your scumslip for your perusal.
Sudgy, the Vanilla Townie, has been lynched!
Night 8 begins now. All players must check-in with me by posting in their QTs. Actions are due within 48 hours. Day 9 will begin no later than Tuesday, July 11, at 11:00 PM Forum Time, though it could begin earlier.
-
Isn't voting highly dangerous in MILO?
Sorry I don't understand "MILO"
MILO: If misslynch, then loss (probably)
Later...
Since I'm leaving early Friday morning, I'm going to park my vote on someone tomorrow night either based on Axxle's suggestion or my own reasoning if I don't hear from him.
Since I'm leaving early Friday morning, I'm going to park my vote on someone tomorrow night either based on Axxle's suggestion or my own reasoning if I don't hear from him.
It's freaking lylo..
O, the Vanilla Townie, has been killed.
DAY 9 START!
THREAD UNLOCKED.
-
Vote Count 9.1
Not Voting (3): SpaceAnemone, Galzria, Dylan32
With 3 alive it takes 2 to lynch. Day 9 ends Monday, July 17, at 11:00 AM Forum Time.
-
Well, I woke up to a night phase this morning... that wasn't exactly what I'd expected. Fellow townies, what happened to looking at evidence and then adding it all up/multiplying it all out?
Can we please agree to not voting at all in the next few IRL days at least? :-)
What made you all want to vote sudgy? He seemed to be the one of us with absolutely the least opportunity to have managed a fake-claim as he stated it :-( I was coming round to the opinion that O might have to be the option because of Awaclus having hamstring up with certain information-gathering from him... but at least that doesn't have to be on the table for today. I hate the level of WIFOM in general that's left here, though!!
-
Yeah, I just couldn't get past my pretty big scum read on sudgy and looking at his voting history (specifically the lack of scum lynches other than Ash, which it seems most scum wanted to bus). Plus the game felt like it was starting to stall, so I sort of hoped L-1 would bring people back in (once everyone was awake). I had no idea O would jump on and hammer roughly 2 hours later without any more discussion...
That said, I think scum might have made a mistake hammering O, because that hammer seemed kind of scummy... maybe too scummy to be scum I guess with the flip, but yeah out of the rest of you alive immediately after the hammer, I would have been leaning scum : O << Space slightly < Galz : town. My official prediction in my QT was that Space would be the NK, scum!O and Galz would lynch me and scum!O would win. I guess I'm relieved that I'm wrong about that at least.
-
Wait... what?
I kept bugging Robz in my QT last night to send me the speccy (I knew he wouldn't respond. 11:00pm my time is 2:00am his/forum) because I was certain that I was going to be the NK.
Why in the world kill O over me? I mean, I get that one of us had to die because it was highly unlikely we would vote for each other - but I don't understand choosing him over me.
Dylan, is it because O had you lined up if Sudgy flipped town and you didn't want to risk that fight?
Space, is it because.... hell. I don't even have a good reason for you to do it. Maybe you thought my town read on you was stronger than O's?
Bloody hell. Kill makes no sense.
I've got all of today off work. Going to pull the game print and reread both of you one more time looking at:
- Scum interactions
- Vote (and stated intent) history
- Claims
- Where your thoughts were on the game following the iguana and LaLight lynches (when things looked very different for town)
If there is anything else either of you feel I should look at, speak up. I'll look over previous games if you want to link out.
-
Ok, so Space just posted first and didn't acknowledge the oddness of the NK, whereas both Galz and I are apparently confused by it. Space does immediately mention the WIFOM here though, which seems to be the only valid logic for leaving Galz alive if Galz is town. Since it was immediately on Space's mind, that would imply they had thought about it before. So from the initial posts, Space is scummy for being the odd Anemone out.
-
(Apologies ahead of time for lack of quotes or links. Working off two mobile devices - one in print and one in reply. I'm just reading through and noting things that stand out).
Space D1:
- RVS vote exchange with LL to open the game.
- Spends far more time trying to interact with Calamitas and get him posting than anybody else. Actively tries on multiple occasions to engage him with a stated intent to try and get him not to lurk.
- Takes offense at mcmc calling out the LL vote - maybe a little too much? Especially as mcmc was essentially just asking for more detail on why it was there.
- First vote out of RVS goes to mcmc on mostly the above offense that he would question the LL vote.
- Again tries to engage Cal, this time in a mostly safe theory type post.
- Chooses to respond to LL's post about being ignored with a hug, but doesn't actually respond to any of LL's actual posts.
- Defends LL after I start pushing him regarding his J Reggie wagon claim (that scum left the Reggie wagon in an effort to derail it - and that this was true regardless of Reggie's alignment).
**********
A lot of interaction surrounding LL & Calamitas d1. If you look past the theory/setup talk (which is alignment - neutral) it definitely stands out a little bit. Space interacts with mcmc, Faust, TWM and others though too - but seemingly (to my eyes) in a slightly less direct fashion. The big thing here is the response to mcmc calling them out over the LL vote. Feels a little forced. Like they didn't expect anybody to care about the RVS vote and then were a little put off that mcmc brought it up.
**********
Dylan D1:
- Interesting early post on his thoughts regarding the winning game choice. Now that we know that it's M19, "Since more newer people are around, a more recent game was the likely winner" could be seen as a misdirection. That said, he claimed to have guessed 80, which fits this line of thinking.
- His first scum interaction is to respond to iguana calling out Ash for potentially SK hunting. In it he defends Ash's post as being far less likely to come from scum!Ash than town!Ash as Ash in general sees SK hunting as a scum tell and thus wouldn't engage in it in public. Both Iguana and Ash were scum, so...
- Iguana and Dylan seem to interact in ways that create conversation, but don't really do anything for the game. It's just noise.
**********
With the exception of two posts interacting with Iguana (neither of which are anything close to alignment indicative), Dylan doesn't speak to, about, or with any scum whatsoever. Doesn't mention them by name, doesn't... anything. It's almost bizarre because he DOES interact with a lot of people (more than I recall). Absolutely nothing he does D1 suggests partnership.
Space (or Dylan), do either of you know Dylan's feelings on bussing?
-
The only scum game where I didn't bus at all was my first one when I subbed into NM9, and faust was my partner and we both survived the whole game so I didn't need to. M97 Ash and I led a lynch of our partner J Reggie using Ash's fake claimed tracker result. The RMM game where Andrew and I were partners, we mutually had each other in the slight scum read lists and eventually bused each other. Half the town was with me (including gkrieg and Space) and the other half was with him (Jake and either Joseph or Robz) and one or two were neutral. I could have hammered him I think but he beat me to it so he hammered me and went on for the win and MVP.
tl;dr I really like busing, and the fact I didn't interact with a single scum in D1 (a) surprises me completely, like how does that happen (b) literally would not have happened if I were mafia. Bare minimum I would have at least said someone was slightly scummy, probably more considering I would have had 4 partners to choose from.
P.S. Not as short a tl;dr as I intended
-
Ok, so Space just posted first and didn't acknowledge the oddness of the NK, whereas both Galz and I are apparently confused by it. Space does immediately mention the WIFOM here though, which seems to be the only valid logic for leaving Galz alive if Galz is town. Since it was immediately on Space's mind, that would imply they had thought about it before. So from the initial posts, Space is scummy for being the odd Anemone out.
I may not have explicitly said "odd kill", but yeah, as you notice, the WIFOM mention also covers it! It's all so messy. O was the one person left who seemed to have an easy scum narrative, so I'd have thought scum would want to keep him around, even though his content itself looked townie. If nothing else, Awaclus's incorrect tunnel on him had deprived him of easier ways to prove his innocence, so there was a guaranteed question mark over him.
Scum!Dylan probably wants me out of the way, because I've had a scumread on him since three or four nights ago -- I literally said that I thought LL was scum and that I thought Dylan was probably the other one, but with less certainty. That would leave Dylan with O and Galz... it's perhaps a little awkward because getting O to vote for Galz looked like it might have been hard work, but getting Galz to vote for O might have been more doable.
Scum!Galz probably wanted O alive, because O was treating Galz like an IC, so it's also a kill that doesn't work from that angle. There isn't even a way in which it seems like the kill would frame me, if that was a scum plan.
I have tomorrow evening essentially free, so I'll have more time for thinking and analysis then.
-
Got sidetracked yesterday. My D2 look is half done in browser right now. I'll finish and post by this evening.
-
Oops, just slipped over the 24 hour mark. Sorry! I've been here reading things for a while.. just not posting yet. Will do shortly.
-
Yeah, I'm also just over the 24 hour mark. I have an appointment in 40 minutes, so I'll be around afterwards for a bit hopefully. I'll have the tab open, but probably won't actually be here.
-
With the exception of two posts interacting with Iguana (neither of which are anything close to alignment indicative), Dylan doesn't speak to, about, or with any scum whatsoever. Doesn't mention them by name, doesn't... anything. It's almost bizarre because he DOES interact with a lot of people (more than I recall). Absolutely nothing he does D1 suggests partnership.
He mentions me by name in his very first post, and from town!you's point of view, that ought to count as potential scum, especially since you'd just finished pointing out that my D1 had elements that felt forced and stood out :-P
I've just gone and made a tally, and the people he didn't talk to/about, quote, or vote for are Calamitas, LaLight, Eevee and Awaclus.. so the fact that there are 2 scum in there is quite high. Though most people forget Calamitas, so really LL is the surprising one.
-
Yeah, I'm also just over the 24 hour mark. I have an appointment in 40 minutes, so I'll be around afterwards for a bit hopefully. I'll have the tab open, but probably won't actually be here.
I think it only shows someone as online when a page is request if that person been active on the site (i.e. requesting a page) in the 15 minutes before loading... I don't think leaving a tab open sends information back to the server.
Mainly responding to this now because it's just reminded me that Galz was showing up as online at the point I first noticed the game had re-started, but he wasn't saying anything. I was even a little bit slow to post my response, because I was in the middle of some work (my nominal leave-the-office target is 18.30, or 13.30 forum time, and I posted just before that). Anyway, Galz's lurkiness coming into the lylo day a bit at odds with the immediacy (the "wait, what?" stuff) of his response when it did come through. Though Dylan is the one who seemed to be scumreading me for not expressing my confusion over the kill clearly enough, so maybe these first responses are meant to be more planned-out than I think they are. Anyway, I thought it was weird, but then forgot about it in between because I was busy with choir.
-
With the exception of two posts interacting with Iguana (neither of which are anything close to alignment indicative), Dylan doesn't speak to, about, or with any scum whatsoever. Doesn't mention them by name, doesn't... anything. It's almost bizarre because he DOES interact with a lot of people (more than I recall). Absolutely nothing he does D1 suggests partnership.
He mentions me by name in his very first post, and from town!you's point of view, that ought to count as potential scum, especially since you'd just finished pointing out that my D1 had elements that felt forced and stood out :-P
I've just gone and made a tally, and the people he didn't talk to/about, quote, or vote for are Calamitas, LaLight, Eevee and Awaclus.. so the fact that there are 2 scum in there is quite high. Though most people forget Calamitas, so really LL is the surprising one.
My assessments for both were looking for a scum narrative - in which case as the last scum that wouldn't be a mention of scum.
-
Yeah, I'm also just over the 24 hour mark. I have an appointment in 40 minutes, so I'll be around afterwards for a bit hopefully. I'll have the tab open, but probably won't actually be here.
I think it only shows someone as online when a page is request if that person been active on the site (i.e. requesting a page) in the 15 minutes before loading... I don't think leaving a tab open sends information back to the server.
Mainly responding to this now because it's just reminded me that Galz was showing up as online at the point I first noticed the game had re-started, but he wasn't saying anything. I was even a little bit slow to post my response, because I was in the middle of some work (my nominal leave-the-office target is 18.30, or 13.30 forum time, and I posted just before that). Anyway, Galz's lurkiness coming into the lylo day a bit at odds with the immediacy (the "wait, what?" stuff) of his response when it did come through. Though Dylan is the one who seemed to be scumreading me for not expressing my confusion over the kill clearly enough, so maybe these first responses are meant to be more planned-out than I think they are. Anyway, I thought it was weird, but then forgot about it in between because I was busy with choir.
I don't know how the refresh works, but I know that I almost always appear as online. Back when I was playing a lot I had over 40 days online more than the next closest person because my phone literally kept me on 24 hours a day unless I went out of my way to close the program. /shrug
-
Haha we're all awful right now. This must be brutal to "watch" from the speccy.
I'm at work until 11:30pm forum time and then have a meeting that will run until almost 3:00am. I'll really try to finish my d2 read while at work tonight. I meant to do it yesterday but obviously failed.
-
I just unearthed the following exchange between ash and Galz in my re-read, and wanted to post it rather than just condense it into my notes. It just seems off, given Galz's later claim about having gotten his PR from slot 11. There's no way we've missed a possibility for him to have gotten a PR (scum or otherwise) from anywhere else, is there?
Having reread most of TWM now, I'm finding him fairly consistent. And I don't think his early speculation about IC/2-Shot Vig is all that off based on his beliefs. To be more clear, based on the following quote (and correct me if I'm wrong), you are suggesting that as town with draft #1 you would've taken IC over 2-shot Vig - not necessarily because IC is the better role, but because it would let town know that scum did not have the 2-shot Vig, as well as making an IC:
Why do you think that it would have prevented town from having an IC? I mean, I get what you're saying, but I'm pretty certain that every town player, given the chance, would've taken 2-Shot Vig over IC. Therefore if scum got a top pick and won slot 1, it would be preventing a town 2-shot Vig, not an IC.
I guess I have a limited expectation on the utility of a 2-shot Vig. I would rather have an IC.
This belief makes his early posts about feeling like it's more likely for scum to have a 2-shot Vig over town based on the lack of IC make more sense. I think it's WRONG, because I think town takes 2-shot Vig over IC every time, so the chances of that role going to scum or town are basically equal. But at least it explains the position and makes his previous posts read much more consistent.
You are interpreting correctly. And to be clear, I wasn't trying to assert that my belief was absolutely correct. But wanted to have a discussion about it before making that declaration.
Isn't it absolutely incorrect given the way 11-13 work?
That's a good point, and not even something I had considered.
-
As for my D1 re-read and wagon-read, I've filled in most of the stuff re-reading Galz, but not gone back over Dylan yet for the same period. Consequently (I guess?) have a current scumread on Galz, in the sense that I didn't read anything and feel like it couldn't have been placed there by a clever scum player. However, I think it's better that I hold off and only post my timelines and stuff once I've given myself a chance to built up the same scum-read/confirmation bias thing on Dylan's half of it too..
-
Other wagon snapshots, in glorious monochrome because it's really late:
#2478
Cuzz (8): faust, sudgy, PPS, Dylan, Andrew, Space, iguana, Jake
O (1): Awaclus
Dylan (1): Galz
Andrew (4): LL, Eevee, O, RR
Space (1): Cuzz
Not Voting (5): ash, mcmc, Jimmmmm, TWM, e
-- is Iguana really the only scum out of 8 voters on the Cuzz wagon?
#3325
ash (3): O, faust, Jake
sudgy (1): Dylan
e (9): RR, PPS, Galz, sudgy, TWM, Space, LL, e, mcmc
Not Voting (4): Awaclus, iguana, ash, Jimmmmm
-- is LL really the only mafia member who wanted to kill the probable-SK?
The answer to exactly one of these questions is yes, and I can't work out which one :-(
-
I just unearthed the following exchange between ash and Galz in my re-read, and wanted to post it rather than just condense it into my notes. It just seems off, given Galz's later claim about having gotten his PR from slot 11. There's no way we've missed a possibility for him to have gotten a PR (scum or otherwise) from anywhere else, is there?
Having reread most of TWM now, I'm finding him fairly consistent. And I don't think his early speculation about IC/2-Shot Vig is all that off based on his beliefs. To be more clear, based on the following quote (and correct me if I'm wrong), you are suggesting that as town with draft #1 you would've taken IC over 2-shot Vig - not necessarily because IC is the better role, but because it would let town know that scum did not have the 2-shot Vig, as well as making an IC:
Why do you think that it would have prevented town from having an IC? I mean, I get what you're saying, but I'm pretty certain that every town player, given the chance, would've taken 2-Shot Vig over IC. Therefore if scum got a top pick and won slot 1, it would be preventing a town 2-shot Vig, not an IC.
I guess I have a limited expectation on the utility of a 2-shot Vig. I would rather have an IC.
This belief makes his early posts about feeling like it's more likely for scum to have a 2-shot Vig over town based on the lack of IC make more sense. I think it's WRONG, because I think town takes 2-shot Vig over IC every time, so the chances of that role going to scum or town are basically equal. But at least it explains the position and makes his previous posts read much more consistent.
You are interpreting correctly. And to be clear, I wasn't trying to assert that my belief was absolutely correct. But wanted to have a discussion about it before making that declaration.
Isn't it absolutely incorrect given the way 11-13 work?
That's a good point, and not even something I had considered.
In what way is it off? I was defending TWM (correctly) for attacks made against him based on a difference of opinion rather than something alignment indicative. Ash pointed out further why TWM's opinion on the matter was flawed and I agreed - as it was an additional reason that I hadn't considered despite disagreeing with TWM's premise for other reasons.
It really feels like you're stretching to paint me scummy here Space - and it's starting to feel like scum desperate to find something to stick.
My arguments on you/Dylan for D1 were obviously looking for a scum narrative - so calling out my "lack of noticing Dylan mentioned you D1" is ridiculous (and is arguably a scum -slip on your part if I believed in weighting such things heavily).
The argument that "I was online and not posting" has been tried against me for as long as I can recall. Remember back in D2 when MCMC thought the same thing and that I might try and steal the hammer? And then I actually ppened my phone, made my presence known and voted when he asked me to? Yeah. Bad arguments are bad.
And now this - O claimed to try for Slot 11. But I won it first. Was O lying about his slot choice you think? .... Yeah. Probably not. So if he didn't get it, and I didn't get it... then where is it? Maybe Dylan's lying and actually took 11? ::) And maybe Faust lied too and didn't actually shoot n1.
I mean... your assertions are a little ridiculous, don't ya think?
-
I just unearthed the following exchange between ash and Galz in my re-read, and wanted to post it rather than just condense it into my notes. It just seems off, given Galz's later claim about having gotten his PR from slot 11. There's no way we've missed a possibility for him to have gotten a PR (scum or otherwise) from anywhere else, is there?
Having reread most of TWM now, I'm finding him fairly consistent. And I don't think his early speculation about IC/2-Shot Vig is all that off based on his beliefs. To be more clear, based on the following quote (and correct me if I'm wrong), you are suggesting that as town with draft #1 you would've taken IC over 2-shot Vig - not necessarily because IC is the better role, but because it would let town know that scum did not have the 2-shot Vig, as well as making an IC:
Why do you think that it would have prevented town from having an IC? I mean, I get what you're saying, but I'm pretty certain that every town player, given the chance, would've taken 2-Shot Vig over IC. Therefore if scum got a top pick and won slot 1, it would be preventing a town 2-shot Vig, not an IC.
I guess I have a limited expectation on the utility of a 2-shot Vig. I would rather have an IC.
This belief makes his early posts about feeling like it's more likely for scum to have a 2-shot Vig over town based on the lack of IC make more sense. I think it's WRONG, because I think town takes 2-shot Vig over IC every time, so the chances of that role going to scum or town are basically equal. But at least it explains the position and makes his previous posts read much more consistent.
You are interpreting correctly. And to be clear, I wasn't trying to assert that my belief was absolutely correct. But wanted to have a discussion about it before making that declaration.
Isn't it absolutely incorrect given the way 11-13 work?
That's a good point, and not even something I had considered.
So O was town, was low in the draft order and didn't get 11, so someone took 11. I don't think any town PRs were missing during the massclaim, so we know it wasn't town. The only way Galz didn't get 11 was if LL got their role from 11 instead of whatever slot Godfatherer was in.
PPE 1
-
Other wagon snapshots, in glorious monochrome because it's really late:
#2478
Cuzz (8): faust, sudgy, PPS, Dylan, Andrew, Space, iguana, Jake
O (1): Awaclus
Dylan (1): Galz
Andrew (4): LL, Eevee, O, RR
Space (1): Cuzz
Not Voting (5): ash, mcmc, Jimmmmm, TWM, e
-- is Iguana really the only scum out of 8 voters on the Cuzz wagon?
#3325
ash (3): O, faust, Jake
sudgy (1): Dylan
e (9): RR, PPS, Galz, sudgy, TWM, Space, LL, e, mcmc
Not Voting (4): Awaclus, iguana, ash, Jimmmmm
-- is LL really the only mafia member who wanted to kill the probable-SK?
The answer to exactly one of these questions is yes, and I can't work out which one :-(
Iguana and Space could've been on Cuzz, and LaLight and Space could've been on e. Just sayin'. ;)
-
So I'm in the middle of reading Space (D3 somewhere), and man some interactions with dead scum seem so partnery... I'll have to come back and finish tomorrow though. Got a meeting at 8am so I'm up too late already.
-
I just unearthed the following exchange between ash and Galz in my re-read, and wanted to post it rather than just condense it into my notes. It just seems off, given Galz's later claim about having gotten his PR from slot 11. There's no way we've missed a possibility for him to have gotten a PR (scum or otherwise) from anywhere else, is there?
Isn't it absolutely incorrect given the way 11-13 work?
That's a good point, and not even something I had considered.
In what way is it off? I was defending TWM (correctly) for attacks made against him based on a difference of opinion rather than something alignment indicative. Ash pointed out further why TWM's opinion on the matter was flawed and I agreed - as it was an additional reason that I hadn't considered despite disagreeing with TWM's premise for other reasons.
Oh, the argument itself holds fine :-) The thing I found odd was denying that you'd considered how slots 11-13 work when you later claimed to have a slot-11 PR.
I was feeling wary that I might have missed some way of you not having had slot 11, which would make some of the rest of the game (in particular, the scum narrative associated with your role and claim!) hang together a bit better. But Dylan seems to have backed me up on the reasoning for you having to have had slot 11, so I guess that part is set.
The argument that "I was online and not posting" has been tried against me for as long as I can recall. Remember back in D2 when MCMC thought the same thing and that I might try and steal the hammer? And then I actually ppened my phone, made my presence known and voted when he asked me to? Yeah. Bad arguments are bad.
I don't actually remember much from D2 by this point, but I'm willing to take your word for that point.
And now this - O claimed to try for Slot 11. But I won it first. Was O lying about his slot choice you think? .... Yeah. Probably not. So if he didn't get it, and I didn't get it... then where is it? Maybe Dylan's lying and actually took 11? ::) And maybe Faust lied too and didn't actually shoot n1.
I mean... your assertions are a little ridiculous, don't ya think?
I asserted nothing. I just asked for external confirmation that I haven't missed any mechanism that might allow for another scenario. I feel like "what am I missing" is a good question to keep asking when trying to puzzle this out. If there is no other scenario that either you or Dylan can see -- and one of you has to be town -- then I'm more confident that my original reasoning is valid, that you must have a PR from slot 11, and your weird little exchange with ash was just misdirection. I still don't quite intuit the motivation there, though.
-
hmm.. though thinking again, LL placing lower and getting Godfatherer through slot 11 does make sense, but how high would scum!Galz have to have placed in order to bid on RB/JOAT/JK? And what on earth were the other scums bidding on in that scenario? I guess it's no less implausible than a bunch of other scenarios that have been presenting themselves, though.
-
Anyway, sorry not to have finished the wagons-and-rereads thing tonight -- I had a very busy work day and then games night immediately after, and while I'm home now, I'm also in desperate need of a good night's sleep. My pattern for tomorrow may well be similar, but at least on a Friday night I can stay up later, and then on Saturday I'm free for several hours in the afternoon, some of which I intend to spend not just curled up in bed in need of a break. We have till Monday 11am forum time, which feels just not at all long enough to puzzle this through :-(
-
Posting here so I don't actually lose it. Been in browser 2 days:
Space D2:
- Space's first post of D2 acknowledges their attempt to get Calamitas to engage on D1. This quote though: "I didn't pick up anything alignment indicative from the way he responded... Why wouldn't they go after someone who's more likely to be a PR?" sounds like Space knew Calamitas was a Goon. At the very least it's weird that Space drew no alignment conclusions from Calamitas' answers, but seems to have drawn PR conclusions from them?
- Faust actually catches the above thought, and Space defends it with a quote from D1 essentially suggesting that they feel PR's were more likely to be weighed towards older players because of how Robz' algorithm worked - and hence their feeling like a newer player (such as Calamitas) wouldn't be a good place to hunt PR's (that he would be below average) - while consistent certainly with how I perceive Space to think and process information, it's then interesting to me that they weighted newer players more heavily when choosing the money-maker (Favorite Game, M72).
- LaLight points out the WIFOM of scum!Space choosing to engage with scum!Calamitas, to which Space writes off the accusation as essentially - You should know better, scum!Space would ignore their partners! (Anybody confirm/deny Space doesn't like to interact with partners?)
**********
Not a whole lot from Space D2. You really get the feeling they were struggling to keep up with the game during that time - something that's not alignment indicative. The opening post and phrasing give me pause, and I'm not sure the logic is consistent throughout. Calamitas was Space's #1 pick for town PR, and #10 for the group... yet they thought he was a bad place for third party scum to PR hunt? I dunno. Feels a little off.
**********
Dylan D2:
- Opens D2 with a reads post. Me, Faust, Andrew, Gkrieg and a vote on Space. Still no confirmed scum interaction.
- His next few posts reference my interaction with Faust. Nothing really stands out.
- His first post interacting with scum is a one line response to Ashersky, in reference to mcmc's claim. Not really an interaction I guess. More of a passing comment.
- Interesting post shortly after TWM claims Hider. LaLight says it's a bad claim and Dylan quotes LL 3 posts later simply calling him scum. This is like, the first real GAME interaction Dylan has with scum.
- Dylan then goes on to post rereads, only doing Sudgy and Eevee. Shortly thereafter he states support of "semi-random town guided lynches" and posts a preferred lynch order list: Out of 19 players (20 including himself), known scum listed at 4th (LL), 8th (Iguana), 15th (Ash).
- Dylan is obviously pro-plan. Every other known scum either didn't have a hell of a lot to say or was pissed - it wouldn't be out of place for there to be one supportive scum.
- Shortly after posting his lynch order list RR misrepresents Dylan by stating that Dylan believed Ash to be scum - this is notable only for the follow up reactions. RR was ranked 7th on Dylan's list, but this misrepresentation moved him way up. Dylan wanted to make quite clear that he didn't view Ash as scummy (while also noting that it wouldn't surprise him if Ash was). This reads like partner guarding while leaving options open.
**********
Again Dylan's direct scum interactions are shockingly few D2. Not quite as severe as D1... but it's really getting me paranoid at this point! I would expect one scum to set themselves apart by supporting the plan and Dylan does this certainly. His bristliness (Not a word, I know) over RR's thought that Dylan said he found Ash scummy (not accurate, true) feels a little like partner defense.
I dunno. There are things that set off alarm bells for Dylan, but they're more for the lack of scum tells that I would expect, whereas the alarm bells for Space right now are FOR exactly the things I would expect to find.
D3 to come tonight hopefully. That's the 2.7 day... so I'm hoping for some interesting interactions there.
-
- Faust actually catches the above thought, and Space defends it with a quote from D1 essentially suggesting that they feel PR's were more likely to be weighed towards older players because of how Robz' algorithm worked - and hence their feeling like a newer player (such as Calamitas) wouldn't be a good place to hunt PR's (that he would be below average) - while consistent certainly with how I perceive Space to think and process information, it's then interesting to me that they weighted newer players more heavily when choosing the money-maker (Favorite Game, M72).
Haha :-P M72 is an old game -- it's from way before people like me, LL, and Calamitas joined (the three of us all joined around M85/86), and there are now even newer players like Jake, Dylan and TWM. I hadn't really realised there would be a lot of people who'd played in things as far back as M10 -- I assumed that the 60s and 70s would be "living memory" and that anything else would be ancient, and I wanted to try for something in the "living memory" era.
Not a whole lot from Space D2. You really get the feeling they were struggling to keep up with the game during that time - something that's not alignment indicative. The opening post and phrasing give me pause, and I'm not sure the logic is consistent throughout. Calamitas was Space's #1 pick for town PR, and #10 for the group... yet they thought he was a bad place for third party scum to PR hunt? I dunno. Feels a little off.
Where is the inconsistency? The picks you're referring to are my choices of who I would select to hold a PR, and Calamitas is a good choice for that because he's sensible with his information-based reasoning. I wasn't picking who I thought would be a PR in this game.. if that was the exercise, I'd have gone straight for faust, gkrieg, mcmc and other f.ds vets, rather than any of the people who've joined since I have. I'm aware that Jake being a PR doesn't fit with this model, but I still assert that the more long-standing members of the community had a far higher probability of flipping with a PR. Presumably e thought they had a higher chance of being protected/watched or something too, if he was even reasoning along these lines, hence the kill on a strong-but-newish person instead.
-
No new analysis from me today, as I'd predicted last night. I do hope to have a decent chunk of time to work on my half-done re-reads tomorrow. Every time I think about this game I just go round in circles, though...
-
WAGON RE-READ D1 (plus associated stuff from an actual wordsy re-read)
#292 Dylan votes Jake.
#434 Dylan is kind of defending ash by backing up a statement from mcmc, though he's not interacting with ash directly.
#436 Dylan is 4th onto the TWM wagon. That's the first 4-person wagon of the game. Seems a bit conspicuous for a scum vote maybe? It's right after a vote count, which sort of looks like good cover.
#532 Explicitly saying ash is townie for pointing out a possible SK-slip beause he doesn't thing scum!ash would have done so.
#571 Galz joins Jake on the JR wagon because JR didn't answer quite a detailed question at #255.
#872 Dylan: "Bussing D1 or D2 is particularly strong for scum." -- another pro-bussing candidate! If this is scum!Dylan, he was not on a single correct wagon D1, D2 or D3, and then he didn't vote at all D4. He did get in on iguana at last in D5, and LL on D6, but by those points scum was really needing the townpoints, and he'd started a specific tally of people being on good lynches.
#854 Galz makes a bigish case against JR.
#883 Why did Dylan move to JR from the TWM wagon? Feels like a bit of a u-turn given that he was defending JR to Galz's apparent misunderstnading regarding JR's "arbitrary voting criteria" thing before. Now both Galz and Dylan are on the JR wagon. Dylan stays for the rest of the day.
#942 Galz calls out Calamitas, RR and Jimmmmm to get them posting more.
#1065 Dylan says that he's 20 pages behind, and won't be able to catch up for a couple of days. Asks the thread whether he should unvote -- seems kind of an easy way of looking helpful while absolving himself of responsibility. He then disappears till more than 200 posts into D2.
#1140 Why did Galz really unvote? The JR wagon had exactly two mafia and an SK plus two town, and he made a post about how he thinks the wagon had scum on it and used that as a reason for unvoting. faust and RR (and maybe others?) went on to comment on that too. (This was also a catch-up after an absence of 140 posts).
#1142 Galz is pressing others for their voting reasons a lot. Sure, it probes people's motivations, but it also looks a lot like trying to get other people to make the scum cases.
#1155 LL joined the wagon just after Galz left. Could that be scum joining now that the density of on-wagon scum is lower?
#1184 Galz scrutinises LL over his views on JR, after mcmc has already called LL's vote scummy-looking.
#1207 Galz onto LL -- bussing? "His responses just don't ring genuine to me".
#1221 LL wagon reaches 4 people (Galz, PPS, Eevee, O).
#1253 Is Iguana diverting onto Galz to prevent the LL wagon growing? O and Eevee's unvotes from LL are the next two things to happen.
In here, Galz is voting LL (as is PPS), and iguana is voting Galz (as is JR). Nice little bussing pair if Galz is scum.
#1319 Iguana rekindles the growth of the JR wagon.. I'm the next one join :-(
#1400 End of D1:
TWM (1): ash
O (1): Awaclus
JR (10): e, Dylan, gkrieg, LL, Jake, sudgy, iguana, Space, TWM, mcmc
gkrieg (1): Andrew
RR (1): Cuzz
LL (2): Galz, PPS
Galz (2): JR, faust
mcmc (1): RR
Awaclus (2): O, Eevee
Not Voting (2): Calamitas, Jimmmmm
So either it's two on-wagon scum with Galz bussing LL, or it's three on-wagon scum with Dylan sitting there for a long time.
None of this feels usefully conclusive either way round. I'm finding that I'm pretty much just feeling scummy on whichever other player I'm re-reading at the time.
-
Space, the interactions there are all accurate - but I wonder on the conclusions you draw (unless, like me, you're simply looking for scum narratives).
You say that it looks like a double bus. That Iguana (scum) went after me (scum) for going after LaLight (scum) to derail/prevent the LaLight wagon from taking off (it was at 4 very quickly, with the J Reggie wagon slipping).
In reality it was standard scum defending scum situation: Iguana (scum) went after me (town) for going after LaLight (scum).
Do you really think that it's more likely that Iguana, in that situation, chooses to go after me as his scum partner rather than push a townie somewhere else? Or that (as it was) it was just easier to go after me (the townie) for calling out his scumbuddy? What's the worst that would happen - a wagon would form on me instead (I had a decent number of people scum reading me for my cases on J Reggie and LaLight) and I might see the lynch block. Having me out of the way early certainly didn't look like a bad thing for scum the way I was pushing things that first day - and in fact, Iguana continued to push for my lynch D2.
-
I'm really sorry guys. I've gotta be honest, I've been able to read what you guys have been saying, but I just haven't had time to go back and really read anything since I posted that I was in the middle of reading, and I'm not sure that I'm going to have much time at all. This week (through the next 2 and a half) I've been having to put in nearly 60 hours a week at work (mostly making calls and in meetings) so no real time to sit and read.
Here's where I stand so far:
Right now, sort of on Occam's razor on that situation the two of you were just describing, what I felt when reading D1 and D2 before I got super busy, and the fact that O's death confirmed that Galz got slot 11 (could be scum role, but I find it hard to believe not a single scum bid on either the strongman or roleblocker slot at all), I'm ready to vote Space. Galz was on the right side of the faust/ash thing (even while I was skeptical of both of them). took pressure from scum for pushing another scum. faust confirmed that Galz did block his N1 kill, so the simplest explanation is that Galz is what they claimed.
-
I'm really sorry guys. I've gotta be honest, I've been able to read what you guys have been saying, but I just haven't had time to go back and really read anything since I posted that I was in the middle of reading, and I'm not sure that I'm going to have much time at all. This week (through the next 2 and a half) I've been having to put in nearly 60 hours a week at work (mostly making calls and in meetings) so no real time to sit and read.
Here's where I stand so far:
Right now, sort of on Occam's razor on that situation the two of you were just describing, what I felt when reading D1 and D2 before I got super busy, and the fact that O's death confirmed that Galz got slot 11 (could be scum role, but I find it hard to believe not a single scum bid on either the strongman or roleblocker slot at all), I'm ready to vote Space. Galz was on the right side of the faust/ash thing (even while I was skeptical of both of them). took pressure from scum for pushing another scum. faust confirmed that Galz did block his N1 kill, so the simplest explanation is that Galz is what they claimed.
Would you have more time if we asked Robz for an extension? I'm still working my own way through the days and haven't really felt out which of you I think is scum - more time for me wouldn't be a bad thing. I mean, I guess it doesn't matter THAT much to me if you vote Space (not like they'll self-hammer) since one of you must be scum - but I don't want you to feel like you're voting because you're holding us back (I know you aren't for me, and don't think you are for Space).
-
I'm really sorry guys. I've gotta be honest, I've been able to read what you guys have been saying, but I just haven't had time to go back and really read anything since I posted that I was in the middle of reading, and I'm not sure that I'm going to have much time at all. This week (through the next 2 and a half) I've been having to put in nearly 60 hours a week at work (mostly making calls and in meetings) so no real time to sit and read.
Here's where I stand so far:
Right now, sort of on Occam's razor on that situation the two of you were just describing, what I felt when reading D1 and D2 before I got super busy, and the fact that O's death confirmed that Galz got slot 11 (could be scum role, but I find it hard to believe not a single scum bid on either the strongman or roleblocker slot at all), I'm ready to vote Space. Galz was on the right side of the faust/ash thing (even while I was skeptical of both of them). took pressure from scum for pushing another scum. faust confirmed that Galz did block his N1 kill, so the simplest explanation is that Galz is what they claimed.
Would you have more time if we asked Robz for an extension? I'm still working my own way through the days and haven't really felt out which of you I think is scum - more time for me wouldn't be a bad thing. I mean, I guess it doesn't matter THAT much to me if you vote Space (not like they'll self-hammer) since one of you must be scum - but I don't want you to feel like you're voting because you're holding us back (I know you aren't for me, and don't think you are for Space).
I'm going to be equally busy until August 1, so I don't think an extension would really help a ton. If I'm able to steal some time at night before bed or first thing in the morning, I'll do my best, but I just won't have the big chunks of time to read pages and pages.
-
Would you have more time if we asked Robz for an extension? I'm still working my own way through the days and haven't really felt out which of you I think is scum - more time for me wouldn't be a bad thing.
This goes for me as well. I'll still try to carve out enough time tomorrow that I can at least finish off the various notes I've got half-thought-out in a text buffer, but it would be good to know we've had time to puzzle it out as best we can. I don't see why a bit more of an extension wouldn't be possible... suspect it's too late in the game to sub out if you really can't commit to finishing things, so just extending the day seems like a good solution.
(I'll be meeting up with a whole bunch of mostly-European f.ds mafia players (including faust, Calamitas, LaLight and gkrieg from this game) in the second week of August, though, so it would be nice if it's all over by then!)
-
So here's D2... that was way too much reading:
First vote of the day is #1507.
#1529 Galz says he'd like more thoughts from LL now that JR has been confirmed as town. Galz then disappears for more than 150 posts, and I don't think LL ever responded. I feel like he'd have been more likely to respond if it was some kind of careful partner interaction. (LL had no posts between #1384 and #1582, though).
#1583 LL votes for me. That's the first scum vote of the D2. (Neither Galz nor Dylan had voted yet).
#1613 Me pointing out my reasoning for thinking Calamitas was unlikely to be a PR.
#1694 Galz's second post of D2.
#1751 Galz starts a catch-up where he's trying to analyse the whole JR wagon from D1, and all the people voting on it.
#1752 Hints at having reason to believe that faust is town.
#1755 Galz votes Dylan, saying that Dylan is his first scumread and putting forward a reasonable case. He stays there for a while.
#1765 Dylan votes for me, joining my wagon in 4th place behind LL, O and Eevee. He gives no justification of his own for the vote. This is his first post since #1065 in D1.
#1765 Galz continues his work-up of everyone on the JR wagon with a big analysis of Eevee. He points to things he doesn't like, but it doesn't appear to be enough to draw his vote away from Dylan.
#1773 Iguana votes Galz. The post itself doesn't give me a partnerish bussing vibe, but I'm not sure I trust my ability to see those clearly at this point in the game (or most other points in any other game, really!).
#1781 Galz's response to Iguana's accusations. He mentions that he'd asked questions of LL and JR, but doesn't seem to have noticed that LL didn't respond to his D2 questions.
#1790 Iguana to/about Galz: "I fully admit that your rebuttal appears stronger than my case." That kind of feels like something a bussed scum might like to have us believe.
#1841 faust says he as a note in his QT saying that Dylan is town. I think I asked him about that already at some later-stage point in the game, and it didn't give me confidence that Dylan deserved many townpoints for it.
#1844 ash's advice to Iguana on how to read Galz. Either wifommy as anything or just scum!ash enjoying holding forth on a safe topic that sounds useful to the game.
#1856 Dylan pushing for more suspicion on faust. This reads as kind of scummy to me now that I know where faust was coming from.
#1868 Another installment of ash's advice on reading Galz and saying how "slimy" he can look. I could very easily believe this to be a three-way scum ploy between iguana, ash and Galz.
#1891 Dylan suggests that a town inventor could help with mcmc's Hammer-Hero-Hider unkillable-ICs plan. That seems like quite a helpful suggestion to make as a scum, if it really had been a viable option. So did he know ahead of that post that he was suggesting a dud idea?
#1900 Dylan calls LL scum for his negative reaction to TWM's hider claim.
#1919/#1921 Dylan still proposing the inventor plan. Though now he also seems to be probing for info about the random slots a little bit with it.
#1922 Galz resurfaces after another long absence (previous post was #1794}. Seems relatively positive about the mcmc-TWM combo.
#1977/1979 Andrew and mcmc get suspicious of Dylan. mcmc points out that he hasn't been putting out reads.
#1992 mcmc realises that the inventor's QT can only go between the inventor themself and another player. Blames O rather than Dylan for some reason.
#2054 Dylan moves to sudgy. The first part of his case says "Sudgy seems to mostly not like Calamitas's posts here, but ends with a vote on TWM instead." which would sound reasonable except for the part where Calamitas has already flipped scum, so you can't really scumread sudgy for not voting for Calamitas at that point. The second part of the case is pointing out that sudgy seemed more scared than necessary of a scum!HH. Not really the greatest way to start a game-long tunnel on sudgy. He admits a few posts later that he hadn't realised the thing he was quoting from sudgy came from D2 rather than D1. He does keep voting for sudgy till #2303, though!
#2119 Galz softclaims that he has a role, and also says that he can't continue to play at the level he was given that the game appears to be solved by the HH-Hider combo.
#2295 Dylan wagon peaks at Galz, Jake and Andrew. LL keeps voting for Andrew; neither ash nor iguana push the Dylan wagon as an Andrew alternative.
#2303 Dylan very briefly votes Andrew (8th on wagon), then unvotes at #2305 because Awaclus pointed out that only he and TWM were supposed to be putting people to L-1, as per the HH plan.
#2337 Dylan doing a "misunderstood town" post. I believe he could pull this off quite readily as scum too, though.
#2359 Dylan votes sudgy again, using faust's "people we should lynch" list as a justification, even though the main point of faust's list seems to have been to list Cuzz three times for emphasis, not to drive votes towards the non-Cuzz names on the list.
#2422 Dylan joins the Cuzz wagon in 4th place, saying he's "evening up" the Cuzz and Andrew wagons for "important people" to choose.
#2454-2477 Dylan is 4th place on an 8-person wagon, with the only known scum being 7th. Galz is off-wagon (voting Dylan). This looks really scummy for Dylan, but so much so that subtly pushing a sudgy wagon might be seen as a way to frame him if Galz is being really clever about it. Or Dylan's just scum. I've already complained about the sky-high wifom levels :-P
#2557 Galz helps coordinate with mcmc to help him get the hammer hero. Looks townie, but is also contributing to a town lynch, so not that spectacular.
#2558 Lynch of D2:
Cuzz (5): faust, sudgy, Dylan, Andrew, Space
O (1): Awaclus
Andrew (10): LL, Eevee, O, PPS, Jake, iguana, Jimmmmm, Cuzz, Galz, mcmc
Not Voting (4): ash, TWM, e, RR
Again, no strong conclusions to draw right now, but at least this stuff is more fresh in my head. I think I feel like Dylan is marginally more scummy on balance, but that may just be that he's been more active in the later bits of D2 that I've read more recently. Galz was less negative about the game being "broken" than I'd remembered; I feel like he was characterized by others as being more negative about it than he was. Dylan's tunnel on sudgy is based on a much flimsier case than I'd remembered.
-
Vote Count 9.2
Not Voting (3): SpaceAnemone, Galzria, Dylan32
With 3 alive it takes 2 to lynch. Day 9 ends Monday, July 17, at 11:00 AM Forum Time. That's in 24 hours.
-
Here's D3... it's really long, even in my abstracted version, so I'll stick it in a code box.
The main take-homes are:
1) Galz's position as the only not-conf!town on the e wagon looks a little less bad to be now than previously, when I read closely around how the build-up formed, since there was a scum (LL) around there earlier. Also, with Ash lurking to slink out of having to engage with people noticing how scummy he was, there were fewer scums available to be on the e wagon than it looks like there should have been.
2) Dylan makes noise to sound willing to participate in towny stuff, but notably has his vote on sudgy and his poorly-justified wagon for most of the day.
3) Galz's reads on ash, and proposed narratives for what happened in the night seem a bit jumpy. I intend to come back to this because I think the events of N2 and the claims of D3 and how it all actually played out are going to be the key to helping me make up my mind.
4) I did a lot of high-utility town work proposing the claiming exercise and making sure it got seen through to completion. We outed two scums, and als provided a load of evidence that I went on to use to push the case on LL that took him out too. I thought I was on fire this day, and I found it so funny that at the end of it all mcmc still claimed to have a scumread on me. If whichever of you is town needs a reminder of why dropping a vote on me now is a ridiculous idea, D3 is the start of my defence :-)
#2594 Day begins.
#2612 Galz summarises the deaths and says "I may have something I want to discuss on this topic." His options for the two deaths N1 and N2 are:
a) No Vig - SK + Mafia kills both night
b) Vig hasn't shot - SK + Mafia kills both night
c) Vig has shot, some kill each night has been prevented.
N1 faust claimed to have shot at sudgy (#2923), but was blocked by Galz.
N1 e appears to have killed Calamitas.
N1 scum appear to have killed gkrieg.
N2 faust claimed he'd vigged Cuzz.
N2 Eevee was killed by either SK or mafia.
#2621/#2625 I start pushing the benefits of having a conf!IC in Eevee's partner to run a claiming exercise, since D3 seems the optimal time to do so. This first push is mostly just ignored.
#2640 Dylan asks RR why e and Iguana can't both be scum (since RR said he thinks "one of" them is).
#2644 Dylan complains about the "I wouldn't do that as scum" line of argument/defence.
#2649 Galz argues against the other Mason coming out to run a claiming exercise. He says that scum want to know who's town and who isn't (to find the SK I guess?). He doesn't directly talk about the claiming exercise, but he is responding to O, who'd posted the same point I'd made about Eevee's partner being IC, though without the follow-up on how that's beneficial for a claiming exercise. Which is unfortunate, because he bolded it and people seemed to notice it more when he said it! Also, he'd been pushing a claiming exercise earlier in the game, but didn't seem to be doing so at that point. Anyway, it almost seems here like Galz would come out against the claiming exercise, but isn't saying so explicitly.
#2669 Galz makes his JK claim, also saying he had draft order 20 and got it from slot 11. It seems unavoidable that he JKd (or RBd?) faust N1. Convenient/unfortunate that he claims to have JKd ash N2.
#2677 O makes a good point about the presence/absence of a strongman, especially now we know ash was just a goon. So for Galz to be town, we need to explain why scum-goon!ash was making the kill rather than scum-strongman!Dylan. Though I guess the cleanest answer there is that if Galz is town, then the reason he wasn't able to JK someone to protect from the kill was that the remaining scum is an RB or a JOAT, rather than a strongman.
#2678 faust claims 2-shot vig and votes Galz. His case is
a) he claims to have blocked the two players that are most likely to have strong PRs.
b) him thinking I am the vig based on very circumstantial evidence shows he is actively looking for a vig. Which is the kind of thing mafia would do if they don't have that role in their team.
c) he basically outed both of us as PRs on D2 with no benefit to town. The only thing he could hope to get with that move is my trust, and that is something that scum wants much much more than town.
d) the jailkeep mcmc plan is obviously awful due to Strongman/Rolebocker (both of which exist separately AND as part of a JOAT).
#2682 Galz asks faust whether he shot one of the people who died N2, but only [i]after[/i] stating he wants to make a conditional vote on ash, as if he's not considering reasons for the missing kill other than that he blocked ash from making the faction kill (like mafia targeting the same person a the SK, or the SK having targeted ash).
#2692 LL followed faust onto Galz, but then unvoted again at #2728 after a discussion about how he doesn't believe in the suboptimal play of Galz. He stays as "not voting" until the sudden dive onto the Jimmmmm wagon happens.
#2751 Me trying to push a claiming exercise with TWM, since my earlier attempt wasn't picked up by anyone. While TWM responds that he wouldn't be happy running the claim, my overall proposal does pick up some more support this time round.
#2773/#2774 More work from me trying to find a way to get the claiming exercise off the ground in spite of predictable scum opposition from e.
#2794 Galz is 3rd onto the ash wagon, after a post in which he outlines a lot of reasons why he believes faust to be town (mostly since coming out with the D2 opening in which he hints at knowledge of night actions wouldn't have been sensible as scum).
#2832 Iguana reluctantly(?) supports the massclaim, but suggests an alteration that might slow it down and/or offer scum places to hide if they know where the VTs are and what they'd bid.
#2836 I put forward the idea we eventually run with, which is to claim draft order and VT/non-VT in the first round, and then slot and role in the second, which avoids the loophole where scum get fake slots to bid too easily.
#2847 Awaclus posts his claiming order. It's missing faust, Galz, TWM and mcmc, and has O at the end because he was sure O was scum. Unfortunately, ash, iguana and LL are all low on the list ordering.
#2913/#2914 More of me trying to push through the claims and not let them stall or be slowed down by scum or by foot-dragging townies. I think making the claiming exercise run to completion and root out at least two or three scums (ash and e, plus also I pushed through the LL lynch using my suspicion over his claim as big part of the case) is the towniest thing I've achieved, and if the rest of you still think I look scummy, then maybe you should re-read that part of the game. (See also #2971/#2972,#3026,#3048,#3134,#3135,#3178...).
#2915 Dylan's case on sudgy, following on from faust's recent sudgy vote at #2911. It's still weak, and Dylan takes sudgy's claiming-exercise info into account, but then doesn't appear interested in anything else the overall exercise may bring up. He leaves his vote on sudgy for the rest of D3.
#3085 Galz unvotes in light of the e/RR situation. He jumps immediately to the option that one of the two of them shot at ash, instead of any of the options in which ash is still scum. I don't actually see any evidence at this point for ash not being scum -- he's getting scummier and scummier with his "I know some things and might share if you stop the massclaim" nonsense. I actually don't like this post from Galz in retrospect.
#3096 Dylan puts down a "preliminary vote" on e, saying he doesn't want to run e's wagon up too much before the claiming is done. That seems quite towny, but otoh, not ending the day too quickly was something I was quite vocal about earlier, so he could just have been parroting that in the hope of townpoints.
#3119 Galz joins the e wagon in 6th place, citing an impending absence as a reason for getting a vote down. LL is already on-wagon. A couple of posts later, he points out that he realised he was off by a day (i.e. it was a Thursday and not a Friday already), but notably doesn't unvote in the meantime.
#3120 Dylan is willing to push e to L-2, but asks about coordination to give mcmc the hammer.
#3176 e wagon briefly peaks at 7 when e self-votes. He then votes ash in the very next post.
#3212 Dylan defending ash. Given how scummy I was finding ash at that point, I feel surprised at how confidently he says that he thinks ash is just being dramatic about his claim so that people pay attention because scum doesn't want that...
#3241 This is Dylan's last post of the day; the hammer was about 17 hours later.
#3295 LL moves to bus ash, after e claims to be the Survivor rather than the SK, and says that RR is obv!town. That leaved Galz and 4 known townies on the e wagon. I guess that's marginally less improbable than a wagon growing up to that size without a scum driving it, though (otherwise Galz being the only possible-scum on-wagon looks really suspicious).
#3319 Galz is the only not-conf-town in the seven-person wagon on e. That seems way too tempting a wagon for scum to be on, given that the alternative is the ash wagon.
#3321 LL joins the e wagon. I think he would have joined earlier if there hadn't already been a scum on-wagon, though there was the issue of having to play along with the coordination with mcmc.
#3322 e self-hammers, meaning no HH powers for mcmc.
ash (3): O, faust, Jake
sudgy (1): Dylan
e (9): RR, PPS, Galz, sudgy, TWM, Space, Jimmmmm, LL, e
Not Voting (4): Awaclus, iguana, ash, mcmc
#3341 Mcmc still reads me as "very scummy" -- I found this so funny I made a note of it in my QT. At least he covers himself by saying that I always feel scummy to him. I thought that game day was a great example of me being super-townie and useful :-P
-
Let's assume Galz is scum and see how the whole known game state stuff plays out.
Where did his PR come from? It needs to have been slot 11, because of O's claim. He must be either the JK, RB or JOAT, because he managed to block faust N1. It's entirely possible that he was placed exactly where he said he was. It seems unlikely that he was at draft position 2 and still bid for slot 11, but it's not impossible. Anyway, his role is such that he probably didn't need a fake-claim.
What happened N2 to cause the "missing kill"?
a) Scum didn't shoot, and SK shot Eevee.
b) SK didn't shoot, and scum shot Eevee.
c) SK shot ash, who was JKd by Galz for protection. Another scum used the faction kill to take out Eevee.
-- Options a and b seem low-probability because no-kill is very rare for N2 of a game. That goes especially for option a, since scum had a lot of people to pick from when it came to performing the NK. Option c actually seems middlingly likely: ash had given himself away a bit with his attitude towards the HH-hider "unkillable" duo, so for an SK looking to thin out the scum pool, he'd be a good target.
What about all the draft order stuff? If Galz was at draft position 2, then slot 11 is a curious one to pick, but the narrative works out fine even if he got his PR from the draft place he claimed. LL being the top-placed scum and opting for Godfatherer doesn't seem so likely, but ash etc could have changed numbers around. This reasoning isn't relevant for distinguishing scum!Galz from scum!Dylan, though.
What looks most "off" in this scenario?
*) Experienced players like O, who know Galz, didn't think he was scum in the end.
*) Galz was voting LL in D1; if he was one of the scum-bussing party (LL and Iguana voted ash a lot D1) then this is a bit oddly asymmetrical.
*) The Cuzz wagon around #2454 is really oddly town-driven, with only one scum in eight voters.
What supports this scenario well?
*) The JR wagon at its conclusion looks more "normal", with two spaced-out scums on it, rather than having three scums as the scum!Dylan scenario would require.
*) The e lynch wagon looks right, in that it has two scum on it rather than only LL.
Who was he voting for at the end of each day?
D1 LL -- scum, but not the lynch.
D2 Andrew -- town lynch
D3 e -- SK lynch
D4 Nobody
D5 Nobody
D6 sudgy -- town, but the lynch was scum!LL
D7 RR -- town lynch
D8 sudgy -- town lynch
Not a stellar voting history; it's worse than Dylan's, since Galz has only been on one non-town lynch. On the plus side, he's only helped lynch three townies.
-
Okay, now let's assume Dylan is scum.
He has to be a Roleblocker, a JOAT or a Strongman, because he was able to kill Awaclus through Galz's jailkeeping on N7.
Where did his PR come from? Presumably he bid for it in its native slot, since none of those appeared to have been taken in the claiming exercise. He seems unlikely to have won #2, though it's not beyond the realms of possibility. More likely he had a lower draft position, around the one he'd claimed.
What about the slot claim? Scum!Dylan wasn't perfectly safe in claiming slot 13, because if e wasn't lying about the contents of slot 13 (and I think he's much more likely to have been truthful there), then the mafia knew that the SK had the slot because that's the only way the "convert SK to Survivor" role would have been there. Given how much Dylan insisted that sudgy claiming slot 6 was "safe" because sudgy would already have known that someone had the slot, I wonder whether he just assumed slot 13 was "safe" for the same slightly misguided reason? He was really adamant about his logic on sudgy several times, iirc.
What happened N2 to cause the "missing kill"?
a) Scum didn't shoot, and SK shot Eevee.
b) SK didn't shoot, and scum shot Eevee.
c) SK shot ash, who was JKd by town!Galz. Another scum used the faction kill to take out Eevee.
d) scum!ash was trying to use the faction kill but was blocked by town!Galz. The SK took out Eevee.
-- I feel that the mass of probability is approximately the same as for scum!Galz, because while there are four possibilities rather than three, the chance of "c" seems a bit lower, because Galz's motivation to JK ash isn't as high. Also, option "d" seems unlikely, since ash would have known he'd made a target of himself and was a bad choice for shooting, and also, why not get Dylan to perform the kill? Though actually, maybe this just indicates that Dylan is more likely to be a JOAT or RB than a Strongman: i.e. he's something that would take up his night action to do, rather than a thing that's applied to the kill whenever he's the one who performs it.
What looks most off in this scenario?
*) The wagon on JR day 1 would have been really heavily scum-driven at the end, with three of them on there even at a point where there were only five voters. (This is after it had reached 8, dwindled, and was beginning to grow again).
*) He bussed LL in the penultimate wagon position, citing my LL case as his reason.
What supports this scenario well?
*) I've been gut-reading Dylan as scum since back before we lynched LL. He's good, and he'd absolutely change up his still-developing scum-meta for this game. A lot of the things he says can be read in a really wifommy way. (Like bussing being particularly strong for scum on on D1/D2 when he didn't bus at all).
*) The JR wagon around #1015 looks as it should, with carefully-spaced scums on its tail.
*) His weak and persistent tunnel on sudgy was the perfect cover for not doing more work on actual scum-lynching/scum-hunting.
*) The D2 Cuzz wagon around #2482 looks as it should, with two carefully-spaced scums.
What's maybe-odd-but-ultimately-explainable?
*) Dylan bussed Iguana D5, but both LL and Iguana were already voting for me, and when I flipped, so they needed an off-wagon scum, and that whole way was really just about me vs Iguana, so there wasn't anywhere else to go. Scum also wanted to keep the day short because I'd offered town-useful wagon printouts, and was making some for faust only I didn't have time to complete it before the very short twilight period was over.
*) The e wagon has fewer mafia on than I would have expected. Maybe they just figured that having worked out who it was, they could let town do the hard work of actually voting, to avoid being on actual wagons?
Who was he voting for at the end of each day?
D1 JR -- town lynch
D2 Cuzz -- town, but not the lynch
D3 sudgy -- town, but not the lynch
D4 Nobody
D5 Iguana -- scum lynch
D6 LL -- scum lynch
D7 sudgy -- town lynch
D8 sudgy -- town lynch
-- that's two non-town lynches Dylan has been on. Better than Galz's record, but still not very good. (I have been on every single correct lynch (4), and only two town lynches).
-
Just under 15 hours till the deadline now. I'm about to sleep, and I'd like to wake up to some content/comments from you two please!
I'm leaning towards voting Dylan, but I'm still open to strong cases on Galz, especially if they add nicely into my framework.
-
I'm at work and social outing for the next 5 1/2 hours, and then it's 10:00pm my time. I have tomorrow off so I suppose I can sacrifice some sleep for this tonight. :)
Space, I maintain my position for both Ash and Iguana go counter to the actual vote history. For Ash, O and I were both ready to vote and were waiting to extend the day at your request for more analysis. For Iguana both you and he were at L-2, and after days of pressing you both I chose to cast the L-1 vote on him. In the process of typing my post Awaclus beat me to the punch and again not wanting to end the day early I abstained (But placed a timeline based intent to hammer) - in both cases Ash and Iguana self hammered so I never "officially" got to vote them.
If you think we're all scum together then they did me no favors by preventing me from being on their wagons.
-
Well, I remember Galz being willing to be on wagon, so at least that isn't a lie. Could it be that Space was just banking on bussing all 3 lynched partners + sk giving so much town cred to steal the win? Space did pivot off of sudgy (who almost everyone expressed a willingness to lynch at the time AND was the other half of an false dichotomy that O helped set up) onto RR at the deadline.
I'm still quite torn. I thought I'd drop some useful stuff in-thread while I deliberate. Re-reading is hard and long :-(
Voting history for Dylan
Day 1: Jake (#292), TWM (#436), JR (#883)
Day 2: Space (#1765), sudgy (#2054), Andrew (#2303), Not Voting (#2305), sudgy (#2359), Cuzz (#2422)
Day 3: sudgy (#2915)
Day 4: No votes
Day 5: iguana (#3747)
Day 6: sudgy (#3793), LL (#3996)
Day 7: sudgy (#4050), Not Voting (#4057), Galz (#4064), sudgy (#4102)
Voting history for sudgy
Day 1: TWM (#508), JR (#979), TWM (#1055), JR (#1186)
Day 2: TWM (#1584), Not Voting (#1950), Andrew (#2287), Cuzz (#2405)
Day 3: ash (#2795), e (#3244)
Day 4: ash (#3441)
Day 5: Space (#3765)
Day 6: faust (#3877)
Day 7: Dylan (#4069)
Voting history for RR
Day 1: mcmc (#1298)
Day 2: Andrew (#2478), Not Voting (#2486), Andrew (#2522), Not Voting (#2528)
Day 3: iguana (#2637), Jimmmmm (#2894), Not Voting (#2939), e (#3005)
Day 4: No votes
Day 5: iguana (#3740)
Day 6: faust (#3921), Not Voting (#3969), LL (#3985)
Day 7: O (#4059), Dylan (#4107)
Voting history for O
Day 1: Not Voting (#260), RR (#358), Awaclus (#678), LL (#1221), Not Voting (#1256), Awaclus (#1345)
Day 2: faust (#1539), Space (#1600), faust (#1931), ash (#2151), Andrew (#2286), faust (#2445), Andrew (#2477), Not Voting (#2567)
Day 3: faust (#2664), Not Voting (#2668), ash (#2721)
Day 4: ash (#3412), Not Voting (#3473)
Day 5: Space (#3612), faust (#3684), Space (#3691)
Day 6: Space (#3861), faust (#3966), LL (#4020)
Day 7: sudgy (#4099), Dylan (#4117)
Voting history for Galz
Day 1: JR (#571), Not Voting (#1140), LL (#1207)
Day 2: Dylan (#1755), Andrew (#2557), Not Voting (#2568)
Day 3: ash (#2794), Not Voting (#3085), e (#3119)
Day 4: Not Voting (#3555)
Day 5: No votes
Day 6: sudgy (#3783)
Day 7: sudgy (#4091)
Voting history for Space
Day 1: LL (#144), mcmc (#974), JR (#1382)
Day 2: Cuzz (#2432)
Day 3: e (#3315)
Day 4: iguana (#3475), ash (#3549)
Day 5: iguana (#3617)
Day 6: LL (#3860)
Day 7: No votes
Voting history for Awaclus
Day 1: e (#461), O (#698)
Day 2: O (#1545)
Day 3: No votes
Day 4: No votes
Day 5: O (#3682), iguana (#3768)
Day 6: sudgy (#3870)
Day 7: O (#4065)
If you'll notice, Space far and away has the highest scum!votes per votes ratio out of anyone, as in, they are the only person (that was listed) that voted for scum more than they voted for town, and everyone other than Space and Galz (and myself from neutral viewpoint) on that list is conf!town. Galz just didn't vote much at all this game it seems, which is interesting too, but not really scummy.
I'm just trying to decide if town (and a claimed VT at that) would be as likely to maintain that high of a precision with their votes with the limited info that they have as opposed to scum knowing who all the scum are and using it for town cred.
-
Out with friends for a bit. Please note that we MUST lynch. No lynch is a scum win. So I will likely be voting before bed tonight.
-
Ok. So I think Space is more likely scum than Galz. I guess what it boils down to, is that I would rather lose to a perfect fake claim that whose night actions were verified by a town tracker than to the VT that has looked scummy the last 2 days and has been too perfect to actually be town in voting.
Vote: SpaceAnemone
-
Ok. So I think Space is more likely scum than Galz. I guess what it boils down to, is that I would rather lose to a perfect fake claim that whose night actions were verified by a town tracker than to the VT that has looked scummy the last 2 days and has been too perfect to actually be town in voting.
Vote: SpaceAnemone
vote: SpaceAnemone
That was intense. Space is going to be super sad.
Very well played to everybody.
My claim was 100% true - just not town aligned.
-
I'm so sorry everyone...
-
I was *this* close to intentionally leaving the space out of my vote so that it wouldn't count just to try to see if you would jump in and say something like that without realizing. I decided not to because I thought it might be pretty cheap, although now I almost wish I had tried it...
-
I was *this* close to intentionally leaving the space out of my vote so that it wouldn't count just to try to see if you would jump in and say something like that without realizing. I decided not to because I thought it might be pretty cheap, although now I almost wish I had tried it...
I checked the vote a couple times to make sure it was correct. Also previewed a few times to see if you were going to unvote right away.
-
I was *this* close to intentionally leaving the space out of my vote so that it wouldn't count just to try to see if you would jump in and say something like that without realizing. I decided not to because I thought it might be pretty cheap, although now I almost wish I had tried it...
I checked the vote a couple times to make sure it was correct. Also previewed a few times to see if you were going to unvote right away.
Thought about that too, but was posting elsewhere at that moment.
-
Man what a freaking let down...
-
I'm so sorry everyone...
To be fair, it's not all on you. I *think* Space was leaning your way too - so I had decent outs both sides.
The kill on O last night TORTURED me, but I was -certain- that if I left him alive he would come in to today and flip his read on me based on the fact that no scum in their right mind would leave us both alive going into the final day with his stated town read on me.
But I had the final pairs worked out on D6 and you two were my least favored choice by FAR.
-
For the record, somewhere around (I think) d6 I explained the missing n2 kill: We targeted mcmc that night in the hopes that his rock solid "I will take protection tonight to confirm all us townies" would play out as WIFOM and he would go for the shot instead.
-
I'm so sorry everyone...
To be fair, it's not all on you. I *think* Space was leaning your way too - so I had decent outs both sides.
The kill on O last night TORTURED me, but I was -certain- that if I left him alive he would come in to today and flip his read on me based on the fact that no scum in their right mind would leave us both alive going into the final day with his stated town read on me.
But I had the final pairs worked out on D6 and you two were my least favored choice by FAR.
Yeah I think Space would have gone for me. They typically have not read me well at all: town in my scum games and vice versa here. But I don't know.
What do you mean least favored choice?
-
Man, It's like, 2:00 AM for Robz. He's not gonna lock 'n flip for hours still! I want the thread opened to everyone!
-
I'm so sorry everyone...
To be fair, it's not all on you. I *think* Space was leaning your way too - so I had decent outs both sides.
The kill on O last night TORTURED me, but I was -certain- that if I left him alive he would come in to today and flip his read on me based on the fact that no scum in their right mind would leave us both alive going into the final day with his stated town read on me.
But I had the final pairs worked out on D6 and you two were my least favored choice by FAR.
Yeah I think Space would have gone for me. They typically have not read me well at all: town in my scum games and vice versa here. But I don't know.
What do you mean least favored choice?
I mean that back after LaLight was lynched, I looked over the players in the game, looked over all your reads and stuff, and looked ahead to who I did and didn't want to face off against. You and Space being the final two were seriously the scariest set of players to me.
-
I'm so sorry everyone...
To be fair, it's not all on you. I *think* Space was leaning your way too - so I had decent outs both sides.
The kill on O last night TORTURED me, but I was -certain- that if I left him alive he would come in to today and flip his read on me based on the fact that no scum in their right mind would leave us both alive going into the final day with his stated town read on me.
But I had the final pairs worked out on D6 and you two were my least favored choice by FAR.
Yeah I think Space would have gone for me. They typically have not read me well at all: town in my scum games and vice versa here. But I don't know.
What do you mean least favored choice?
I mean that back after LaLight was lynched, I looked over the players in the game, looked over all your reads and stuff, and looked ahead to who I did and didn't want to face off against. You and Space being the final two were seriously the scariest set of players to me.
I would love to say you lucked out and ran into working 50+ hours a week me instead of bored me, but I'm not even sure it would have changed the outcome. I hated Space's pivot onto RR for that so much that it would have taken a lot to get me to overlook that. Seriously, overestimating his town cred from that was 1000% town!rr
-
I'm so sorry everyone...
To be fair, it's not all on you. I *think* Space was leaning your way too - so I had decent outs both sides.
The kill on O last night TORTURED me, but I was -certain- that if I left him alive he would come in to today and flip his read on me based on the fact that no scum in their right mind would leave us both alive going into the final day with his stated town read on me.
But I had the final pairs worked out on D6 and you two were my least favored choice by FAR.
Yeah I think Space would have gone for me. They typically have not read me well at all: town in my scum games and vice versa here. But I don't know.
What do you mean least favored choice?
I mean that back after LaLight was lynched, I looked over the players in the game, looked over all your reads and stuff, and looked ahead to who I did and didn't want to face off against. You and Space being the final two were seriously the scariest set of players to me.
I would love to say you lucked out and ran into working 50+ hours a week me instead of bored me, but I'm not even sure it would have changed the outcome. I hated Space's pivot onto RR for that so much that it would have taken a lot to get me to overlook that. Seriously, overestimating his town cred from that was 1000% town!rr
Yeah, I don't know. I feel I played a very pro-town game overall, and I didn't really have to put up too much a defense today (less than I thought I would). I would like to feel like I could've defended myself reasonably well on a lot of different fronts.
The intent to vote for Ash and Iguana were both solid points that I did get to bring up. I would've brought up my lack of hammer on faust when I could've done so on the day LaLight was lynched. My claim worked very well for me throughout. I dunno. I think I had a pretty solid line of defense. But I don't know for certain that it would've all held together.
-
I'm so sorry everyone...
To be fair, it's not all on you. I *think* Space was leaning your way too - so I had decent outs both sides.
The kill on O last night TORTURED me, but I was -certain- that if I left him alive he would come in to today and flip his read on me based on the fact that no scum in their right mind would leave us both alive going into the final day with his stated town read on me.
But I had the final pairs worked out on D6 and you two were my least favored choice by FAR.
Yeah I think Space would have gone for me. They typically have not read me well at all: town in my scum games and vice versa here. But I don't know.
What do you mean least favored choice?
I mean that back after LaLight was lynched, I looked over the players in the game, looked over all your reads and stuff, and looked ahead to who I did and didn't want to face off against. You and Space being the final two were seriously the scariest set of players to me.
I would love to say you lucked out and ran into working 50+ hours a week me instead of bored me, but I'm not even sure it would have changed the outcome. I hated Space's pivot onto RR for that so much that it would have taken a lot to get me to overlook that. Seriously, overestimating his town cred from that was 1000% town!rr
Yeah, I don't know. I feel I played a very pro-town game overall, and I didn't really have to put up too much a defense today (less than I thought I would). I would like to feel like I could've defended myself reasonably well on a lot of different fronts.
The intent to vote for Ash and Iguana were both solid points that I did get to bring up. I would've brought up my lack of hammer on faust when I could've done so on the day LaLight was lynched. My claim worked very well for me throughout. I dunno. I think I had a pretty solid line of defense. But I don't know for certain that it would've all held together.
Yeah, I don't even know what the best way to attack you would have been. You were on the right side of faust/ash during the discussion, the likelihood of scum PR canceled out the fact scum would have NK'd you before the end, and your night actions were exactly what you said they were.
-
Space is going to be super sad.
^^^^^^^^
too perfect
Though this makes me feel a little better ;-)
-
I really want to know what went on with the scum bids on PRs, though, and the overall draft stuff... that's still confusing me immensely!
-
Oh, and well-played Galz!!!
I still had high suspicion on you, and I really did want to see how you'd react to my professed willingness to vote Dylan -- I had hoped the actual voting wouldn't happen till I was awake again today, and I'd be able to see whether you were too quick to jump on that or anything... it was a bit of a last-ditch plan, though. You hid very well!
-
Thread locked
-
Huh. Well.
I'm...
Yeah, I'm stumped.
Galz, how does it feel knowing that your night actions were totally useless?
I guess there is a lesson here:
In M-II, I was the most trusted player, whom nobody suspected. I was scum.
In M-III, Yuma was the most trusted player, whom nobody suspected. He was scum.
In M-V, Yuma was the most trusted player, whom nobody suspected. He was scum.
Lesson: Lynch strongest pro-town reads. They're really scum.
SpaceAnemone, the Vanilla Townie has been lynched.
Dylan32, the Vanilla Townie, has been endgamed.
Galzria, the Mafia-Aligned Jailkeeper, wins with fellow mafia members LaLight, iguanaiguana, ashersky, and Calamitas.
Congratulations, Mafia!
Thread unlocked forever.
-
Bam.
-
Basically, this is what happens when Galz is on your team. Doesn't really matter what the rest of us did.
Thanks for carrying the load on this one!
-
oh my, this was THE game. Galz, you're the best!
-
Robz, QTs? :)
-
Galzria is MVP, obviously. No discussion needs to be had about that.
Mafia QT here: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/b6Ghps3YncsNm
Spectator QT here: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/RviPWjV77B56S
Masonic Lovers QT here: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/yEqtyvb3rjQkx
Moderator QT: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/kvh8XjjsLhPx
If players want to post links to their individual QTs, that's up to them.
Note that all decisions are final, even if someone encounters some kind of math error in the draft calculating process, which is a strong possibility knowing me.
The consensus most feared mafia team was: ashersky, Galzria, faust, gkrieg, mcmcsalot
The ten people who received the most pro-townie points during question 2 were: faust (51), gkrieg (36), 2.7 (31), ashersky (29), Jimmmm (26), Eevee (24) Calamitas (23), Galzria (22), LaLight (22), SpaceAnemone (16)
There was a four-way tie for favorite game: Mafias 19, 33, 68, and 88 all received two votes, and every other game received one or fewer vote. Picking the game you voted for was a very smart strategy that only one player actually used (Jimmm).
Draft order and total points, bold if they got a PR. Exact ties in points were broken randomly.
1. Faust (141) 2-Shot Vig
2. Iguanaiguana (137)
3. Jimm (135) Masonic Lover
4. Mcmcsalot (47) Hammer Hero
5. 5. LaLight (46) Godfather-er
6. 2.7… (42) 1-Shot Bus Driver from Slot 13
7. Sudgy (41)
8. Dylan (41)
9. Eevee (40) Masonic Lover via random draw
10. Awaclus (39)
11. Calamitas (39)
12. Ashersky (38)
13. The_Wine_Merchant (38) Hider
14. J Reggie (37)
15. Pingpongsam (37) Restless Sheeper
16. Gkrieg (37)
17. Jake (33) Tracker from Slot 12
18. SpaceAnemone (32)
19. RoadRunner (30)
20. Galzria (28) Jailkeeper from Slot 11
21. O (24)
22. Cuzz (24)
23. AndrewisFTTW (23)
More drafting info to follow...
-
:(
Space, Dylan, you were so townie; why did you have to go and scumread one another?
-
Here's what people pursued in the draft. The draft went terrible for town and worse for scum. Basically, Slots 6 and 13 were insanely popular--twelve people bid on one of those two slots, including three scum. Mafia got shut out of those slots.
In general, the random slots were very popular.
As you will see below, town was underpowered and scum was way underpowered. Anyone, even the townies drafting last--O, Andrew, Cuzz--could have had PRs, and strong ones at that, if they drafted differently. Slots 3, 4, 5, and 8 went completely undrafted!
I think mafia made a mistake sending Iguanaiguana after 2-Shot Vig, probably should have assumed there was a 50% chance draftee #1 was taking the Vig or the Hammer Hero. So mafia's #2 draftee got nothing.
I also think mafia made a mistake not even trying for Inventor, which was a pretty strong scum power. It had extra killing potential. Was bummed not to see it used.
The Hammer Hero was poorly designed on my end, obviously. I did not envision town using it in the way mcmc did, and I of course did not think of the Hider thing. And then I compounded the problem by making some bad rulings on those interactions. I breathed a huge sigh of relief when 2.7 voided all of that.
Slot 1
2-shot Vigilante -- <faust#1> <iguanaiguana #2>
Innocent Child -- <Awaclus #10>
Investigation Immune
Slot 2:
Restless Sheeper -- <pingpongsam #15>
1-shot Commuter
1-shot Lightning Rod
Slot 3:
Alignment Cop
Roleblocker
Convert Serial Killer to Vanilla Townie
Slot 4
Role Cop
Watcher
Inventor
Slot 5
Doctor
JOAT (1-shot Ninja, 1-shot Strongman, 1-shot Roleblocker)
Convert Serial Killer to Survivor
Slot 6
Masonic Lover -- <Cuzz #22> <Eevee #9> <Jimm #3> <J Reggie #14>
Universal Backup -- <sudgy #7>
1-shot Bus Driver -- <ashersky #12>
Slot 7
Tracker
Godfather-er <LaLight #5>
1-shot Bulletproof
Slot 8
Strongman
Jailkeeper
Convert Serial Killer to Werewolf
Slot 9
1-shot Full Cop
Ninja
Hammer Hero <mcmcsalot #4>
Slot 10
Motion Detector
Hider – <The_Wine_Merchant #13>
Gambler
Slot 11 - <0 #21> <Galzria #20>
Random unchosen PR (Jailkeeper)
Slot 12 – <Jake #17> <SpaceAnemone #18>
Random unchosen PR (1-Shot Commuter)
Random unchosen PR (Tracker)
Slot 13 – <gkrieg #16> <RoadRunner #19> <AndrewisFTTW #23> <2.7 #6> <Calamitas #11> <Dylan #8>
Random unchosen PR (Alignment Cop)
Random unchosen PR (Convert Serial Killer to Werewolf)
Random unchosen PR (1-Shot Bus Driver)
-
Good game everyone! I had a blast. Freaking mass claim. my qt for your enjoyment (https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/Rxvk39XjP9vT)
-
I love how much he speccy shows that the inability to trust other townies is a really really big hinderance to catching scum. The speccy always figures it out so quickly.
Also shoutout to my day 2 scum team call of cal/ash/galz/lalight/faust. That plus twm's result on iguana had the scum team on a plate. MVP shoutout to 2.7 for kicking the game off for town with a
Mafia kill and then leveling the playing field by ending my mighty hammer reign.
-
Also comically enough I never had the double-invincible-ic plan when I picked hammer hero, I literally just wanted a power that would help me survive the night and I wanted to prevent another towny from taking the power and stupidly shooting like they would ever hit town since we all know...VIGS SHOUDN'T SHOOT...
It wasn't untill robz made the post about potential night kills and it prompted me to ask how the hider would cause an additional kill and then it all came together. I had a blast this game and well played to everyone, love that it came down to three person lylo.
-
congrapulations scun
-
killing me was probably the right call but I was pretty committed to the town!galz train, the "missing" kill and general scummy vibes from both Space and Dylan make me doubt I would have flipped
-
Epic game. Towards the end I just followed the flips. Amazing game Galzria!
-
I knew early on Space was town. The rest was indecipherable. I was certain faust was brazen scum. I still don't understand his choices despite being certain they were probably sound.
-
Yay!
My QT:
https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/cQdXP4PbBSQ7E
I think the only seriously questioned kill call was on Faust the night LL was lynched - but as I explain in order to spin Strongman/RB through the end, I needed to recognize that Faust was an IC (we knew he was Vig. With 2 scum alive he could be scum!Vig with a shot left and a SM/RB partner. With 1 scum alive, he was still Vig... so couldn't be scum).
-
Also I did NOT want LL lynched yet - but I was torn on how hard I should try to steer the lynch from him. And not hammering Faust when I had that opportunity... man, so many tough choices. I mean, I hated the choice to go after iguana instead of Space when it was so close - but I couldn't justify town!Galz voting Space there, so I just couldn't do it as scum (Although I knew/was counting on Awaclus voting Iguana there - as O was on Space. So I knew if I voted Space we would've had a split field with Jimmm the breaking vote. And I had NO clue how he would fall.)
-
Oh, and well-played Galz!!!
I still had high suspicion on you, and I really did want to see how you'd react to my professed willingness to vote Dylan -- I had hoped the actual voting wouldn't happen till I was awake again today, and I'd be able to see whether you were too quick to jump on that or anything... it was a bit of a last-ditch plan, though. You hid very well!
Had I gone to bed last night without finishing this I would have either:
Not voted and stated my alarm was set for 2 hours to deadline (and I would have), in which case I wouldn't have tipped my voting hand yet in response to you OR, I would've finished sizing everything up and voted for you over Dylan. I didn't WANT to do it that way as it locked Dylan as town, but I figured his read on you was stronger than yours was on him - and in the limited game time he would be less likely to flip to me.
-
there was too much game in this game and not enough game, knowmsayin?
-
So the only town PR used to catch a scum was... the Hider catching iguanaiguana.
-
It appears reading the speccy that I could have left O alive. I just couldn't figure out how scum!Dylan or scum!Space ever decides to leave us both in game together given his stated read on me. Combined with my own fear he would flip because, well, no way Scum!Dylan or Scum!Space leave us together...
-
It appears reading the speccy that I could have left O alive. I just couldn't figure out how scum!Dylan or scum!Space ever decides to leave us both in game together given his stated read on me. Combined with my own fear he would flip because, well, no way Scum!Dylan or Scum!Space leave us together...
Galz, my thinking was you could have--and should have--killed Space, who is a much bigger endgame threat than you realized, mostly because how thorough they are... and the prevailing wisdom could have been, well, the last scum killed Space because Space was the only person not on the sudgy wagon.
-
I don't think at the point where it was trackable I ever lied about my jailing targets. After Jake was goneI jailed O most nights giving him the most amount of credit for living players to maybe have a PR (I was thinking Doctor) still. He would absolutely claim VT and hide it during mass claim...
The only night I didn't jail him was when I killed Awaclus and claimed to have jailed him "confirming" SM/RB - on the crazy chance O was a Doctor, had he targeted Awaclus then there "should" have been two protections. If O was in jail my kill would've succeeded thus outing me as scum on the claim to O. So I jailed nobody that night figuring the kill would happen but if it didn't... O would be confirmed Doctor and I wouldn't be caught in a lie.
-
Wow, what a game. Gg all, even if it didn't go the way I hoped at least I was around for most of it
-
It appears reading the speccy that I could have left O alive. I just couldn't figure out how scum!Dylan or scum!Space ever decides to leave us both in game together given his stated read on me. Combined with my own fear he would flip because, well, no way Scum!Dylan or Scum!Space leave us together...
Galz, my thinking was you could have--and should have--killed Space, who is a much bigger endgame threat than you realized, mostly because how thorough they are... and the prevailing wisdom could have been, well, the last scum killed Space because Space was the only person not on the sudgy wagon.
Yeah, maybe...
Thing is, I don't believe the way Space process information would necessarily lead to me over Dylan. I don't think this game could be "solved" in that fashion at this point. And they've stated to be much worse with emotional/gut/feeling type reads.
Obviously though, yes - as I said in our QT and again to Dylan last night: The Dylan/Space matchup was by far the scariest to me.
-
yeesh. gggalz
-
yeesh. gggalz
You were so townie. I was sad you got shot by Faust. I made the argument to keep you alive n1 when you were the initial Mafia NK target.
-
If I recall correctly, Galz also successfully jailed fellow mafia ashersky, saving ash from death.
-
yeesh. gggalz
You were so townie. I was sad you got shot by Faust. I made the argument to keep you alive n1 when you were the initial Mafia NK target.
i saw somebody made a comment in the scum qt about me playing like a vt trying to draw the nk which was 100% true, but ended up with me being vigged by town anyway
-
Anyway it was nice to see it come down to three person LYLO. I was rooting for town for most of the game but couldn't help but hope Galz pulled it out by the end, an awesome scum!Galz performance is a cool thing for the 100th game to feature.
-
If I recall correctly, Galz also successfully jailed fellow mafia ashersky, saving ash from death.
He was never targeted, no.
-
If I recall correctly, Galz also successfully jailed fellow mafia ashersky, saving ash from death.
He was never targeted, no.
Then the target was changed... at one point someone was going to try and kill him.
-
Anyway it was nice to see it come down to three person LYLO. I was rooting for town for most of the game but couldn't help but hope Galz pulled it out by the end, an awesome scum!Galz performance is a cool thing for the 100th game to feature.
I didn't want to be scum this game! It's so much more stressful! Trying to be active in LyLo while forcing myself to make reads that I knew were 100% junk to convince one town to vote for another was really tough!
I think I was feeling pretty good about this game making LyLo really early on. At first I thought Iguana would be here, and then after TWM I thought it would be LL. But following Ash's death and the subsequent Iguana wagon I knew that wasn't happening.
I DID want to stall LaLight a few days until I could reasonably be on it. But even with him going down when he did I knew that Sudgy/O/Dylan would all get lynched before me based on the temperature of the game. I wasn't on anybody's top 3 lynch list. At that point I only wanted to try and control the lynches a little bit.
The RR lynch wss super useful though because the dichotomy between Sudgy/Dylan still existed. That said I REALLY wanted to unvote RR after his defense. But I recognized that I KNEW he was town so his defense looked better to me than others.
-
Scum played well, town played like ass. It's retrospectively surprising that we got this far, honestly.
-
Scum played well, town played like ass. It's retrospectively surprising that we got this far, honestly.
That's hardly accurate I think. D1 is rarely a scum lynch. N1 town was gifted a scum kill. D2 was maybe a bad day. D3, D4, D5, D6 town lynched scum. D7 was in fact really bad for town. D8 was logical from every angle. And D9 was LyLo.
-
Scum played well, town played like ass. It's retrospectively surprising that we got this far, honestly.
That's hardly accurate I think. D1 is rarely a scum lynch. N1 town was gifted a scum kill. D2 was maybe a bad day. D3, D4, D5, D6 town lynched scum. D7 was in fact really bad for town. D8 was logical from every angle. And D9 was LyLo.
I mean, by the end of D6 in a 23 player game with 5 Mafia and a SK, 5 of the 6 scum were dead. That's hardly bad town play!
-
I'm just glad my winrate doesn't have to drop below 10%
-
Scum played well, town played like ass. It's retrospectively surprising that we got this far, honestly.
That's hardly accurate I think. D1 is rarely a scum lynch. N1 town was gifted a scum kill. D2 was maybe a bad day. D3, D4, D5, D6 town lynched scum. D7 was in fact really bad for town. D8 was logical from every angle. And D9 was LyLo.
I mean, by the end of D6 in a 23 player game with 5 Mafia and a SK, 5 of the 6 scum were dead. That's hardly bad town play!
Town was doing well, mostly because scum was doing badly... 2.7, ash, and LL sort of all got caught in their own webs of deceit. In the end it was as close as close can be.
-
town!galz would have been nightkilled like three times in a row, yeah?
-
town!galz would have been nightkilled like three times in a row, yeah?
My biggest failing. I couldn't kill myself.
-
town!galz would have been nightkilled like three times in a row, yeah?
My biggest failing. I couldn't kill myself.
Yeah. It was horrible especially N8. Every other player as scum like 100% of the time
-
Shoots me*
-
Good job Galz!
I wish I hadn't died so early in this game!
-
Good job Galz!
I wish I hadn't died so early in this game!
Oh hey, we killed you pretty much because we thought you might have guessed fanfiction mafia as your favorite game and therefore were a risk to be top of the draft.
At that point we knew fanfiction put you on top of the draft but not that other games could too.
-
Good job Galz!
I wish I hadn't died so early in this game!
Oh hey, we killed you pretty much because we thought you might have guessed fanfiction mafia as your favorite game and therefore were a risk to be top of the draft.
At that point we knew fanfiction put you on top of the draft but not that other games could too.
Ya I saw the deliberation in the mafia QT afterwards. I mean someone had to be the first to die.
-
Fun note: With the exception of D1 (Reggie), I ended with a perfect lynch wagon record: D2, town lynch, on wagon. D3, SK lynch, on wagon. D4, D5, D6 mafia lynches, off wagon. D7, D8, D9 town lynches, on wagon.
And while I missed Reggie D1, I created and facilitated that lynch!
:)
If Space hadn't been nearly as perfect with they're voting record as town themselves (much harder to do mind you) Dylan might not have been nearly as suspicious!
-
Fun note: With the exception of D1 (Reggie), I ended with a perfect lynch wagon record: D2, town lynch, on wagon. D3, SK lynch, on wagon. D4, D5, D6 mafia lynches, off wagon. D7, D8, D9 town lynches, on wagon.
And while I missed Reggie D1, I created and facilitated that lynch!
:)
If Space hadn't been nearly as perfect with their voting record as town themselves (much harder to do mind you) Dylan might not have been nearly as suspicious!
Corrected their. I can't edit and it bugs me.
-
Good job Galz!
I wish I hadn't died so early in this game!
Man, early on I really thought you and Reggie were Masons. Look at those interactions D1!
-
Yeah seriously. It's gotta be way harder for town to be nearly perfect on scum than for town to be 100% wrong and on town. Space, we didn't deserve you this game (apparently) haha
-
Also my point about both Ash and Iguana preventing me from being on their wagons was well made I think. That kinda sucked.
On the other hand, in both situations I did have INTENT to vote, and it gave me another WIFOM card to play, which I simply love.
-
Good job Galzria.
I can't believe on D8 I kept starting to consider it but then everybody shot the idea down. Oh well.
This was a great game!
-
Good job Galzria.
I can't believe on D8 I kept starting to consider it but then everybody shot the idea down. Oh well.
This was a great game!
The problem was you put it in a way that questioned my claim. And my claim was accurate and more or less provably so. It's the same problem Space put forth D9. I think you (or anybody) needed to put together a case that said "Yes, he's probably the JK, but he's ALSO probably scum.". Nobody ever really did.
-
Eh, whatever. GG. Next game please.
-
Good job Galzria.
I can't believe on D8 I kept starting to consider it but then everybody shot the idea down. Oh well.
This was a great game!
The problem was you put it in a way that questioned my claim. And my claim was accurate and more or less provably so. It's the same problem Space put forth D9. I think you (or anybody) needed to put together a case that said "Yes, he's probably the JK, but he's ALSO probably scum.". Nobody ever really did.
That is what bummed me out the most because I pushed it really hard while I was alive. I really thought it was clear with mafia being able to discuss their pics and the way the claims came out at least 2 if not all of you/faust/ash were mafia. Mafia jailkeeper is a fantastic ability.
-
Also my point about both Ash and Iguana preventing me from being on their wagons was well made I think. That kinda sucked.
On the other hand, in both situations I did have INTENT to vote, and it gave me another WIFOM card to play, which I simply love.
I self hammered because I thought the WIFOM would give you a bit more town credit than if I actually let you take the hammer
-
Good job Galzria.
I can't believe on D8 I kept starting to consider it but then everybody shot the idea down. Oh well.
This was a great game!
The problem was you put it in a way that questioned my claim. And my claim was accurate and more or less provably so. It's the same problem Space put forth D9. I think you (or anybody) needed to put together a case that said "Yes, he's probably the JK, but he's ALSO probably scum.". Nobody ever really did.
I didn't mean to put it in a way that questioned your claim. If I did then that was bad on my part.
-
I think one thing that's tough is I saw a LOT from town this game "looking for the lies". I don't know a lot about the meta for some of the newer people but I know my own pretty well: I approach every decision in game where possible with a "what would town!Galz do" mindset. If this means bussing, or calling out PR's in thread or whatever - then I try and do that.
This applies to claiming too. Unless I NEED to lie, I won't. Yes, there's potential to cause confusion but being able to look back and say "X, Y and Z happened because I'm what I claimed" seems far more valuable to me.
Obviously there's a time, a place, an application to lie - but if I can avoid it I will. And in this instance I felt people were looking too hard for a lie that didn't exist.
-
Good job Galzria.
I can't believe on D8 I kept starting to consider it but then everybody shot the idea down. Oh well.
This was a great game!
The problem was you put it in a way that questioned my claim. And my claim was accurate and more or less provably so. It's the same problem Space put forth D9. I think you (or anybody) needed to put together a case that said "Yes, he's probably the JK, but he's ALSO probably scum.". Nobody ever really did.
Yeah, after your claim i basically believed you to be town because I knew you were telling the truth about slot 11.
On a different note, I am curious how other people might have played SK here. What role did you go for and what do you claim? I really liked landing bus driver, werewolves would have improved chances of winning, but suppose you get the #1 pick, what do you take, and what do you claim?
-
Also my point about both Ash and Iguana preventing me from being on their wagons was well made I think. That kinda sucked.
On the other hand, in both situations I did have INTENT to vote, and it gave me another WIFOM card to play, which I simply love.
I self hammered because I thought the WIFOM would give you a bit more town credit than if I actually let you take the hammer
Yeah, I mean, it certainly goes both ways. And I love playing the "Is that REALLY the most logical explanation" card so it didn't really phase me. It wasn't until Space brought it up D9 that I even really considered it. I guess it's a know - your - partner thing. Worked well for me. Others might have preferred to be on a mafia lynch somewhere in the line!
-
Y NO WEREWOLVES E???
-
Good job Galzria.
I can't believe on D8 I kept starting to consider it but then everybody shot the idea down. Oh well.
This was a great game!
The problem was you put it in a way that questioned my claim. And my claim was accurate and more or less provably so. It's the same problem Space put forth D9. I think you (or anybody) needed to put together a case that said "Yes, he's probably the JK, but he's ALSO probably scum.". Nobody ever really did.
I didn't mean to put it in a way that questioned your claim. If I did then that was bad on my part.
I think it definitely read that way - hence why it got shot down so quickly (without my saying a word). The timing was unfortunate as well with you already looking like the likely lynch.
-
Y NO WEREWOLVES E???
Two reasons: 1) I didn't want to drag someone else into being scum after having recieved a town role. 2) I like the challenge. I have rolled SK a few times and I think I am getting better each time. I can win one eventually.....
-
Y NO WEREWOLVES E???
He didn't want to drag someone else into being scum lol. I was sad.
Surprised he took Bus Driver over Alignment Cop though. Might've made for a hard claim later (knowing we would know he was SK), but it would give him tons of knowledge each night on who to shoot (or not shoot), who to scum read (or not scum read) etc.
-
But even had i chosen werewolf, i would have had my same claiming difficulty.
Hey guys, position 6, slot 13, SK convert to werewolf. What?! You guys want to lynch me?
-
I think on massclaim day the mafia team was pretty convinced you and RR were werewolves together ^^
-
And that of course took down Ash...
-
Yeah, I think mafia knowing the random slot contents seems like a pretty huge advantage. It screws the SK if they get one like that, and it provides more info on what they could probably fake claim successfully.
-
Yeah, I think mafia knowing the random slot contents seems like a pretty huge advantage. It screws the SK if they get one like that, and it provides more info on what they could probably fake claim successfully.
If they don't know though, they can't really fakeclaim anything, which hurts them quite badly.
-
Yeah, I think mafia knowing the random slot contents seems like a pretty huge advantage. It screws the SK if they get one like that, and it provides more info on what they could probably fake claim successfully.
If they don't know though, they can't really fakeclaim anything, which hurts them quite badly.
How would they know the list of all the roles in the slots, but not which slots they are actually in? They might be able to figure it out, especially if they win one of them, but it isn't a guarantee. I might help the SK not get singled out, since they would know if he got 11 with convert to wws or 13 with wws, JK, and bus driver. Of course, his claim might still give it away, so it may not matter.
-
Question for Robz: were the mafia slots 100% random or did you do some sort of spread along the draft? Asking because we got two high, two middling, one low.
Question for town: Did anyone avoid bidding alignment cop in order to leave 'convert serial killer to VT' open?
-
I don't think at the point where it was trackable I ever lied about my jailing targets. After Jake was goneI jailed O most nights giving him the most amount of credit for living players to maybe have a PR (I was thinking Doctor) still. He would absolutely claim VT and hide it during mass claim...
The only night I didn't jail him was when I killed Awaclus and claimed to have jailed him "confirming" SM/RB - on the crazy chance O was a Doctor, had he targeted Awaclus then there "should" have been two protections. If O was in jail my kill would've succeeded thus outing me as scum on the claim to O. So I jailed nobody that night figuring the kill would happen but if it didn't... O would be confirmed Doctor and I wouldn't be caught in a lie.
I tracked you the night I died and found your target super suspicious and was all ready to go after you the next day.
-
And that of course took down Ash...
Yeah, I really built my entire glass castle on a foundation of a werewolf team. And when that turned out to be not true, well, that went terribly.
I tried to cause some chaos on the way out, but town (rightly) just ignored me.
-
Question for Robz: were the mafia slots 100% random or did you do some sort of spread along the draft? Asking because we got two high, two middling, one low.
I rolled it full random. Then I re-rolled it a bunch of times, just like re-rolling one scum at a time, and sort of picked the one that seemed most balanced. I think the original roll had O as scum, which was just horrible since O was so far back in the draft, so I rolled it switching out O and got iguanaiguana instead, which looked way more balanced.
-
Question for Robz: were the mafia slots 100% random or did you do some sort of spread along the draft? Asking because we got two high, two middling, one low.
I rolled it full random. Then I re-rolled it a bunch of times, just like re-rolling one scum at a time, and sort of picked the one that seemed most balanced. I think the original roll had O as scum, which was just horrible since O was so far back in the draft, so I rolled it switching out O and got iguanaiguana instead, which looked way more balanced.
Oh, so I can blame YOU and not the dice for making me scum! ;)
-
So the only town PR used to catch a scum was... the Hider catching iguanaiguana.
Booyah!
-
I'm sad we're not going to hit 5,000 posts or break the post record (about 250 short). I think this game was going to be the last best hope of doing it (at least for quite some time).
-
I'm sad we're not going to hit 5,000 posts or break the post record (about 250 short). I think this game was going to be the last best hope of doing it (at least for quite some time).
We could start a deep conversation about random abstract theory to keep the thread alive, but that might defeat the point of it being the game that beats the limit
-
did someone mention long game threads? (https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=70415)
-
Also, it was great to have a big game with ZERO REPLACEMENTS! Can't thank you all enough for sticking it out, it's so much better when no one replaces out.
-
aw i woulda liked being scum
-
aw i woulda liked being scum
I would have liked being town!
-
aw i woulda liked being scum
I would have liked being town!
I really wanted to be a werewolf :-(
-
aw i woulda liked being scum
I would have liked being town!
I really wanted to be a werewolf :-(
Fun fact, I had rolled for "who will become WW" assuming 2.7 was going to take it, and had rolled the PRs that the WW would get to choose.
The person whose number came up to be the converted WW: SpaceAnemone.
-
aw i woulda liked being scum
I would have liked being town!
I really wanted to be a werewolf :-(
Fun fact, I had rolled for "who will become WW" assuming 2.7 was going to take it, and had rolled the PRs that the WW would get to choose.
The person whose number came up to be the converted WW: SpaceAnemone.
That would have been fun
-
Also, it was great to have a big game with ZERO REPLACEMENTS! Can't thank you all enough for sticking it out, it's so much better when no one replaces out.
Good thing I got killed off when I did actually
-
I got the role I wanted and the alignment too. I was pretty happy till faust shot me just to see the look on my face.
-
I got the role I wanted and the alignment too. I was pretty happy till faust shot me just to see the look on my face.
Haha yeah... I've got to admit he really was an honorary scum this game.
-
I got the role I wanted and the alignment too. I was pretty happy till faust shot me just to see the look on my face.
Haha yeah... I've got to admit he really was an honorary scum this game.
You mean because my early reads were bad? I was instrumental in the last two scum lynches though. And I think shooting early was the right call, even if my targets could have been better.
-
I got the role I wanted and the alignment too. I was pretty happy till faust shot me just to see the look on my face.
Haha yeah... I've got to admit he really was an honorary scum this game.
You mean because my early reads were bad? I was instrumental in the last two scum lynches though. And I think shooting early was the right call, even if my targets could have been better.
I meant more the early shots. They were both on people I thought were being exceedingly townie and making consistently good points and solid reads.
-
Good job Galzria.
I can't believe on D8 I kept starting to consider it but then everybody shot the idea down. Oh well.
This was a great game!
The problem was you put it in a way that questioned my claim. And my claim was accurate and more or less provably so. It's the same problem Space put forth D9. I think you (or anybody) needed to put together a case that said "Yes, he's probably the JK, but he's ALSO probably scum.". Nobody ever really did.
Yeah, after your claim i basically believed you to be town because I knew you were telling the truth about slot 11.
On a different note, I am curious how other people might have played SK here. What role did you go for and what do you claim? I really liked landing bus driver, werewolves would have improved chances of winning, but suppose you get the #1 pick, what do you take, and what do you claim?
[/quotel
I planned going for survivor to claim D1 until I saw the "no-kingsmaker" rule which pretty much screws the survivor over.
Therefore I would have gone for VT