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[SpaceAnemone]

The advantage of having a true IC is that they could conduct things if we decide that early D3 is a good sort of point to do order-claiming and slot-claiming.

We've seen roles come out already from several slots, and mcmc's HH power seems like we may already have outed the person who picked first.

I think it will put a load of extra pressure on scum, because either they've prepared for it by picking townie roles, or we catch them out for having picked things they can't possibly verify.

I think now is a good time to do it, because the more people we lose, the more of a chance they have to claim to have picked slots they didn't take, or turn orders other than their own without too much of a chance of being contradicted.

What do the rest of you think? For a group this size, it's going to take a while to orchestrate the claiming even with an IC to dictate the order, so I think right now at the start of the day is the right point in time to be discussing it.

[iguanaiguana]

Basically, you could have been scum before N2, and if you are scum, then the rules clarification just made your fakeclaim stronger and we didn't get the verification we could have gotten from like a watcher or anyone else who could check you.

I think scum makes a bigger effort to undermine TWM's claim here more than town does.

That and the fact that iguana was on both mislynches.

vote: iguanaiguana

I was on yesterday's lynch only because I thought it was super important to get a lynch through before TWM went on vacation.

[iguanaiguana]

Which turned out to be pointless,  apparently.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I think before the rules clarification, you already had a plausible reason to claim you didn't hide behind MCMC because you talked a lot about how you want to use your ability to cop unknown players.

I talked specifically about using my role to cop unknown players on Night 3 and beyond. There was never any statement that I wouldn't follow the plan on Night 2.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Basically, you could have been scum before N2, and if you are scum, then the rules clarification just made your fakeclaim stronger and we didn't get the verification we could have gotten from like a watcher or anyone else who could check you.

I think scum makes a bigger effort to undermine TWM's claim here more than town does.

That and the fact that iguana was on both mislynches.

vote: iguanaiguana

2.7 is scummier here than iguana. I don't really find his statements about me to be suspicious. More like town with a limited perspective looking at it from every conceivable angle.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Which turned out to be pointless,  apparently.

Yes. It was. What was frustrating wasn't that people joined that lynch to get it through. It was that half of the town stopped playing for 4 days when we could have gotten a much better lynch through with players voting for actual reasons instead of voting to get a wagon through.

There has already been some talk of who those players were, but I think that needs to be a focal point of discussion today.

[2.71828.....]

Basically, you could have been scum before N2, and if you are scum, then the rules clarification just made your fakeclaim stronger and we didn't get the verification we could have gotten from like a watcher or anyone else who could check you.

I think scum makes a bigger effort to undermine TWM's claim here more than town does.

That and the fact that iguana was on both mislynches.

vote: iguanaiguana

I was on yesterday's lynch only because I thought it was super important to get a lynch through before TWM went on vacation.

I think scum wants to hide behind this as well.  Gets you towncred from TWM (possibly) and looks like you are trying to cooperate with town for the win.  I really did not like how that lynch happened so quickly.  I mean, I didn't have an issue with the lynch itself (I was voting Andrew most of the day yesterday), but the way it happened was not at all beneficial to us.

And we didn't need TWM to insure mcmc got the hammer, since TWM wasn't even voting Andrew at the end of the day.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

And once again. We lynched quickly so that I could be sure to get my night action in on time as Robz didn't allow conditional actions to be submitted. I didn't need to be part of the wagon and never felt I needed to be part of the wagon and never stated that I needed to be part of the wagon.

There were 4 days between the time that I announced my VLA and when I went. That was sufficient time to get a lynch together in enough time for me to participate in the night actions. That is was rushed was not my fault or mcmc's fault. It was the fault of the players who thought we could casually float through the game (or scum who adopted that attitude for other reasons and those are who we should look for tomorrow).

[iguanaiguana]

Basically, you could have been scum before N2, and if you are scum, then the rules clarification just made your fakeclaim stronger and we didn't get the verification we could have gotten from like a watcher or anyone else who could check you.

I think scum makes a bigger effort to undermine TWM's claim here more than town does.

That and the fact that iguana was on both mislynches.

vote: iguanaiguana

I was on yesterday's lynch only because I thought it was super important to get a lynch through before TWM went on vacation.

I think scum wants to hide behind this as well.  Gets you towncred from TWM (possibly) and looks like you are trying to cooperate with town for the win.  I really did not like how that lynch happened so quickly.  I mean, I didn't have an issue with the lynch itself (I was voting Andrew most of the day yesterday), but the way it happened was not at all beneficial to us.

And we didn't need TWM to insure mcmc got the hammer, since TWM wasn't even voting Andrew at the end of the day.

 I have been increasingly disappointed that wagons I joined that looked like they had decent chances of hitting scum are hitting VTs and even that people who looked like they could be scum like Cuzz are now flipping town. So I started the day by considering that the people who ended up causing yesterday's through a plan they created and I thought looked strong are not town.

Now you are suspecting me both for sheeping yesterday and today for thinking for myself.

Yesterday my hypothesis was that scum would not show up at lynch time because if McMc is town then they would want to steal the hammer. But the main person I suspected of that yesterday (Galzria) ended up casting the L-1 vote. So today I need to reevaluate.

Anyway I guess I don't mind you so much suspecting me for doing so. That's better than the hard ignoring me that most players have done this game.

[iguanaiguana]

Above should say 'causing yesterday's lynch.'

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Are you both fucking kidding me. We spend all of yesterday with everyone dictating how I am to play my role with the wrong assumption on the rules. That rule gets changed and I am just supposed to maintain the status quo? Did I ruin your precious little mafia plan?

Remember how Robz said 'this doesn't mean there's a bus driver?'

Oh my God you are right!?!? Duck. I am such a moron. I didn't realize he said that. I only read the part of his post that I wanted to read and just automatically assumed that there must be a bus driver. I mean. It isn't like bus driver is a role that mafia would gravitate toward getting. And it isn't like we had talked about this possibility before during Day 2. And it wasn't like I couldn't do the exact same thing tomorrow or Day 4. Shoot man. I was just totally wrong.

Is that what you want to hear? Cause duck that.

Lol

[O]

Interesting that we had one lover die last night.

TWM is in an awkward spot where he declined to do the only thing that would verify him but for a pretty good reason.

[Roadrunner7671]

I'm gonna go with a Vote: iguanaiguana

I think one of him or 2.7 are scum.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I'm gonna go with a Vote: iguanaiguana

I think one of him or 2.7 are scum.

Then vote 2.7.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I'm gonna go with a Vote: iguanaiguana

I think one of him or 2.7 are scum.

Then vote 2.7.

Also partner alert if 2.7 flips scum.

[Dylan32]

I'm gonna go with a Vote: iguanaiguana

I think one of him or 2.7 are scum.

Why not both?

[Roadrunner7671]

I'm gonna go with a Vote: iguanaiguana

I think one of him or 2.7 are scum.

Then vote 2.7.

I think iguanaiguana is more scum.

[Roadrunner7671]

I'm gonna go with a Vote: iguanaiguana

I think one of him or 2.7 are scum.

Then vote 2.7.

Also partner alert if 2.7 flips scum.

Yeah, I'd be that obvious.

[Dylan32]

I'm gonna go with a Vote: iguanaiguana

I think one of him or 2.7 are scum.

Then vote 2.7.

Also partner alert if 2.7 flips scum.

Yeah, I'd be that obvious.

Why not? Scum makes mistakes too.

[Dylan32]

I'm gonna go with a Vote: iguanaiguana

I think one of him or 2.7 are scum.

Then vote 2.7.

Also partner alert if 2.7 flips scum.

Yeah, I'd be that obvious.

Why not? Scum makes mistakes too.

Also, something about people saying "I wouldn't do that as scum" still just irks me, even though it is kind of an inevitable argument.

[O]

@Robz

Would a lover's pair be flipped as "Masonic Lover" or "Vanilla Townie".

The rules say the VT-turned-lover is a lover for investigatory purposes. To me that suggests on death they aren't flipped as Lover but instead VT, but this is counter to how lover works in normal, standard games.

[Robz888]

@Robz

Would a lover's pair be flipped as "Masonic Lover" or "Vanilla Townie".

The rules say the VT-turned-lover is a lover for investigatory purposes. To me that suggests on death they aren't flipped as Lover but instead VT, but this is counter to how lover works in normal, standard games.

Both Masonic Lovers would flip as Masonic Lovers--the one who got it from the draft, and the one assigned it randomly.

[mcmcsalot]

Two things.

First:

AndrewisFTTW, the Vanilla Townie, has been lynched.

Neener-neener-neener.

Second. I chose to not hide last night.

Hey twm...

Cuzz, the Vanilla Townie, has been killed.[/b]

Cuzz was also town who almost got lynched before I forced everyone not to vote him so maybe get off your high horse and stop acting like everyone's "controlling you" clearly you did whatever you wanted.

Also I'm curious  how robz posting the changed buss driver rule changed your night action when you didn't have any internet acces. We rushed to a lynch just so you clumsy get your action in. And at that time robz had 100% confirmed bus driving was not a problem. I have no problem with the rule change but I do have a problem with you claiming it's why you didn't hide. You have done tons of yelling about wanting to do your own thing while also pushing town to do things you want "lynch before your gone because you didn't trust me to get the hammer" and then you also don't chose to hide before knowing there is any problem with hiding.

[O]

1. @MCMC the night was extended past TWM being VLA right? But yes, TWM was totally going to lynch a confirmed townie and should get off his high horse.

2. we can have a confirmed IC if Eevee's lover claims. Scum is unlikely to claim they were eevee's lover now. At the same time, i'm not sure if there's a benefit to having them claim now as opposed to claiming later if we were potentially lynching them. Claim now: save potential PR waste and town knows that they are town (which mafia already knows). Claim later: Don't alert Scum to someone that isn't an important PR.


IMO in games with decent role density ICs are still considered pro-town in general so i think eevee's lover should claim. I'm very open to counterarguments though.

[Galzria]

On the one hand, assuming TWM/mcmc are both town, and both follow the "2-IC-unkillable" plan (which TWM doesn't seem worth doing - maybe this has changed knowing there is Masonic?) --- scum WANT to know who is town and who isn't (opposing faction). Here I think the other Masonic claiming is bad.

On the other hand - I agree with much of O's thoughts on the situation.

Ultimately, if I were the other mason, I wouldn't claim. At least not now. It's a decent claim to hold onto, and can't really be counterclaims to the detriment of town prior to a Lyle type situation.