Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[2.71828.....]

Twm are you aware of how to track players viewing the thread?

You can only do this if people haven't turned off being visible online.

You still see the total number of people viewing the thread, but viewing "who's online" will only give usernames of the visible players.

That's a thing...

You are learning all sorts of things this game! How to do the phone version of ctrl+f, how to make you invisible online...

[mcmcsalot]

Also again I don't get what people are pissed about. Numbers wise I don't see why knowing me and twm are town is any different for the number of mislynches to lose. That's just the amount of mislynches needed to lose for town period. Is it just because two correct scum lynches basically result in a town win? But again lynching 3 of the 5 mafia is pretty indicative of a town win in the first place.

I think people should still be scumhunting.

[2.71828.....]

Also again I don't get what people are pissed about. Numbers wise I don't see why knowing me and twm are town is any different for the number of mislynches to lose. That's just the amount of mislynches needed to lose for town period. Is it just because two correct scum lynches basically result in a town win? But again lynching 3 of the 5 mafia is pretty indicative of a town win in the first place.

I think people should still be scumhunting.

I agree with you that we don't need to go full determinist and give up doing anything and just assume the game is in the bag. Never go full determinist.

But I think we can play with a certain level of very high confidence. One of my scum reads before all this started is still a very viable lynch, so I think we confidently move forward with his lynch. It's not like I am trying to find town to lynch.

[ashersky]

Yea I guess I just didn't see your math correctly we got the same conclusions ash. I guess I'm just disappointed I expected a fun game trying to catch scum while being unkillable and now I feel like I got hammer game+whack-a-mole. I did not realize exactly how strong this was going to be.

Lastly there is the chance scum has multiple killing powers.

Twm are you aware of how to track players viewing the thread?

Can't scum only have multiple kills if they got HH or Vig?

Fake edit: just looked, am correct, plus if masons are in the game that's a possible double kill on accident.

Whack-a-mole it is.  Oh well.  They can't all be the best 100th game of mafia ever.

[pingpongsam]

If TWM and, especially mcmc, are actually scum. I salute your most brazen and well executed approach and I wish for your ultimate unmasking and demise this game.

[2.71828.....]

If TWM and, especially mcmc, are actually scum. I salute your most brazen and well executed approach and I wish for your ultimate unmasking and demise this game.

And yes. This is a possibility. But I any not going to worry about that until D5 and we have failed to lynch scum

[Cuzz]

yeah so to be a bit of a killjoy I do wanna explore this a tad, even if we're not going to lynch either of them today. IF one was to have a suspicion that mcmc and TWM were scum, this quote would be worth taking a look at:

Faust you think ninja and one-shot cop are better roles for town than hammer hero?

Ninja is useless, one-shot cop can at max utility catch scum, at worst hit investigation immune/get blocked and receive no result. Hammer hero can at max utility create two unkillable IC's and at worst kill town. I think hammer hero is the better role here.

One could read this as scum!mcmc testing the waters to see whether town would buy the prospect of a town hammer hero. To me, personally, it seemed like a scummy role, which was why I was kinda raging at mcmc at the end of D1. For better or for worse, I was really not considering the idea that town would pick that role.

Also in the same quote is a breadcrumb for the hider plan. When I first read this I was confused. Maybe I'm just particularly bad at teasing out all the possible complicated PR interactions (spoiler: I am), but I do not think I would have spotted this synergy unless I had discussed it with someone. You could also read this as maaaaaybe mcmc being a little too confident that there was a "town" hider in the game.

To be clear, I do believe them and am cool with the plan for now, but it would be negligent not to consider otherwise, and I could be dead later in the game and unable to point any of this out.

[sudgy]

Alright, finished the second half of my Galzria reread.  I assumed he was scum and saw if anything stood out.

#942 He mentions Calamitas and asks him to post his own thoughts.  This would be interesting if he was scum. Also, Calamitas is listed with a couple other people at the same time, so if he was scum that could mean interesting things for the other players.

#1140 He distances himself from the Reggie wagon, and suggests looking at the people on the wagon.  If he's scum, maybe few if any scumpartners are on wagon?

After the Reggie wagon, he takes control by asking everybody tons of questions about the wagon.  While I think this is town!Galzria, this could be scum trying to control the game.

His strange fixation on things that I mentioned earlier could be scum trying to derail the conversation and talk about useless things.

#1922 is the first time anybody mentions that we may have solved the game.  Would scum really do this?

He hasn't really posted since then.


In the end, I now have a huge townread on Galzria.  Everything makes sense if he was town, and there are a couple of things that don't make sense as scum.

[pingpongsam]

Yes, Cuzz. This is exactly my unease with the situation. mcmc was very clear that he created two unkillables. He knew ahead of time that the other unkillable would be a hider (assuming both were town). The forthrightness of the post before TWM ever claimed indicates he had thought through all this well in advance. Now, that's not to say that he couldn't or wouldn't do this as town. More often than not, though, Town gets forced into claiming (which he kind of was with the ugly hammer) and then post-claim they begin to discover the intricacies/synergies of their role as more information develops and other people put the pieces together.

I mean, assuming mcmc is town, I suppose I salute that he saw all the avenues in advance.

That TWM breadcrumbed being hider is really smart, especially how he did it. He sure wouldn't get any static from Awaclus for doing it the way he did as it basically IC's Awaclus. Oh, look, who would be the best person for scum to IC? Maybe Awaclus, the guy who will kill a townie just to prove a semantic point. So, TWM's play isn't overtly scummy but it sure is easy to attach a scum narrative to it. TWM/mcmc ccok up a big ole, YOLO 100th Mafia plan that just might work, especially if scum landed the HH role.

Again, I'm with e, here. Let's run with it for a bit and if we start flipping Mafiosos the next 2 days I'll feel way better about this too good to be true situation.

[pingpongsam]

I'm tempted to sheep Awaclus although that seems worse than maybe sheeping a scum. I guess, I'm not so hot on sheeping TWM just because there is a very clear scum narrative for this wondrous happenstance we supposedly found ourselves in.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Lots of things in this post. Kind of stream of thought, but I have been thinking about this quite a bit.

1. I am getting more nervous about the hammering thing. It just seems super full of potential errors. Many chances for something to go wrong. I think we should still try and go for it but I do wonder if we are going to be able to do it day after day after day with consistency and not having either scum mess it up or town inadvertently mess it up. We are all fallible humans and I think town is more likely to mess this up than scum getting in its way. As such, I don't want to hear any more talk about game being fixed or set or solved. Keep playing the game because this plan isn't guaranteed to work every time and we could find ourselves in a bind if even one thing goes wrong.
2. I think the suspicion of mcmc and myself is justified (I would probably feel similar to others if I were in their shoes) and will only get worse as the game goes on. I think there are ways to perhaps confirm our town status here (investigations of sorts, but we aren't recommended to get those). But what I would hate is for us to get to say Day 5 and either mcmc or myself end up being the lynch out of extreme suspicion for us and we lose the game.
3. I am not super in love with the idea of hiding behind mcmc every night. That just doesn't sound fun. It also seems like it isn't what Robz intended and I don't even think it is the optimal use of my or mcmc's role. So I am proposing doing something different (see below).
4. I am not in love with the Andrew lynch. I won't veto it, but I strongly think there are better options. This is obviously just a gut read, but it is an honest one. I feel confident in my ability to read Andrew and I don't think he is scum. So please take that into consideration.

So what I think want to do with my role.

*Night 2 - hide behind mcmc if the hammer plan is successful.
*Night 3 and future nights - state two players that I might hide behind. Roll a dice that is set at an arbitrary number that I will decide, but not reveal in thread. If A - I hide behind mcmc, if B - I hide behind one of the two players that I stated by flipping a coin and hiding behind the "heads." If I die and mcmc doesn't that will reveal one of the two players to be scum. If I stay alive I will reveal what I did that night and either state I was behind mcmc or make another IC. mcmc could do something similar and flip a coin to either be unkillable or have a vig (so long as he doesn't kill either of the two players that I state I might hide behind). What I don't want to do is just always hide behind mcmc and then get killed by hiding behind him if he decides to not be unkillable at night, that benefits nothing for town.

I want to do this because it is fun and would be useful, even if I die. And because I think it is more inline with what the game is supposed to be about. There will be huge WIFOM for mafia. There is risk that I die, but if I do I find mafia, but frankly that is more fun than just dumbly hiding behind mcmc every night and neither of us using our roles to our full potentials.

This should also help alleviate some of the concerns that people have about the plan as it does create the opportunity for me to die and if I do, confirm mcmc and any of the ICs that were created. So unless someone can create a strong counter argument for why I shouldn't do this (and stating that the other way is game breaking isn't going to be enough for me, I don't want to play in a game broken game. I would rather just quit and move on to another one) that shows why this plan is actually bad I will be doing this.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

That TWM breadcrumbed being hider is really smart, especially how he did it. He sure wouldn't get any static from Awaclus for doing it the way he did as it basically IC's Awaclus. Oh, look, who would be the best person for scum to IC? Maybe Awaclus, the guy who will kill a townie just to prove a semantic point. So, TWM's play isn't overtly scummy but it sure is easy to attach a scum narrative to it. TWM/mcmc ccok up a big ole, YOLO 100th Mafia plan that just might work, especially if scum landed the HH role.

I chose Awaclus for three reasons. 1. there was a good place for me to breadcrumb. I was looking for one of those throughout the beginning of Day 1. 2. he is a player that is hard for me to read. 3. he was a player I thought unlikely to be killed at night if he was town.

[2.71828.....]

@TWM, I have always believed PRs should do what they want to do and not get tied down to a plan or anything. In the end it is your choice.

[2.71828.....]

 But still, the plan is pretty solid plan

[ashersky]

Completely disagree.  Play to win, using the best options available.

I'm also fine with scum giving up and moving on to the next game, by the way.  We could all vote on that, too.

[sudgy]

TWM, the one problem with saying who you're hiding behind early is that mafia could just kill you anyway after you have said two town players.  Then we'll get two mislynches and your death.  It's somewhat unlikely, but given the fact that mafia are already doing worse I think they are more likely to gamble with killing you.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Sorry I've been absent but I'm caught up. Don't have much to add though.

Completely disagree.  Play to win, using the best options available.

I'm also fine with scum giving up and moving on to the next game, by the way.  We could all vote on that, too.

^Yeah I agree with this. There are always future games to tweak setups and such but we should take advantage of the tools we were given.

[pingpongsam]

TWM, the one problem with saying who you're hiding behind early is that mafia could just kill you anyway after you have said two town players.  Then we'll get two mislynches and your death.  It's somewhat unlikely, but given the fact that mafia are already doing worse I think they are more likely to gamble with killing you.

And people think sudgy is scum?

[mcmcsalot]

TWM, the one problem with saying who you're hiding behind early is that mafia could just kill you anyway after you have said two town players.  Then we'll get two mislynches and your death.  It's somewhat unlikely, but given the fact that mafia are already doing worse I think they are more likely to gamble with killing you.

And people think sudgy is scum?

Twm thinks sudgy is scum, I don't. Never have. I'm okay with the andrew lynch especially because he was voting for gkrie yesterday but hell I was voting for twm and jreggie. I still like an eevee lynch as well as the andrew lynch and maybe a lalight or space lynch.

[Galzria]

I agree with almost everything Ash has said, as it was my exact reaction yesterday upon learning of the setup we've been handed. The counter arguments to the numbers working completely in our favor assume that each day we mislynch AND each night two town are NK'd for three consecutive days. That's 9 for 9 in town deaths which is just highly, highly unlikely.

That said, I disagree with his "lynch from the signup sheet" plan -

A) Because I'm first, am Town, and softclaim have utility that I believe will be beneficial to furthering town's chances of winning.

B) If Ash is scum and knows his partners are Sudgy and Jake, he's setting scum up to come back and win.

I would be in favor of random lynching, or lynching based off mcmc/TWM's highest scum reads or whatever.

But as of right now, given the current setup, I can't really bring myself to continue to play at the level I was. It takes a moderate amount of my time and is simply unnecessary.

(I'm not ceasing to play, but actively engaging in full rereads to scum hunt don't seem to serve much purpose)

[sudgy]

But as of right now, given the current setup, I can't really bring myself to continue to play at the level I was. It takes a moderate amount of my time and is simply unnecessary.

(I'm not ceasing to play, but actively engaging in full rereads to scum hunt don't seem to serve much purpose)

Hey, don't you want to win D5 instead of D8?  I think that would be way more fun!  Do what you want though.

(I haven't thought through if D5 or D8 are actual good estimates)

[sudgy]

I realized that I'm not getting through all players by the end of the day, so I'm going to pick the people that people are talking about first.  So Andrew first.

I took Cuzz's post to be slightly sarcastic in a "I shouldn't have to explain this to you" way. Apparently that was incorrect. And are you implying that I was tunneling gkrieg? I wouldn't necessarily call it that considering I posted so little. And he wasn't my only scumread.

Just curious, who else were you scumreading D1?


So, Andrew doesn't have too much stuff.  The main thing that's interesting (wow I use that word a lot) is that yesterday he was tunneling gkrieg, and now he's tunneling Cuzz today.  I can see a town narrative, but it's a bit odd.

[sudgy]

Also, he keeps mentioning that he thinks e is scum but he's never really gone any further with it.  Andrew, do you still think e is scummy?  And if so, why?

[SpaceAnemone]

Yipes, I'm very prodable at this point :-(

I haven't caught up in the past 24-ish hours, but I should get a little bit of time later tonight to catch up and do some re-reads. Really sorry!

[sudgy]

"

Jim, what was this?  A typo?  You didn't post anything for a bit after this, so I'm kind of curious what it is.