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[WalrusMcFishSr]

I didn't think you were the best choice. And why would I follow those instructions anyway? Weren't you criticizing Voltaire for following Voltgloss too blindly, without questioning orders? How is this much different? I did what I thought was right.

[Voltaire]

I didn't think you were the best choice. And why would I follow those instructions anyway? Weren't you criticizing Voltaire for following Voltgloss too blindly, without questioning orders? How is this much different? I did what I thought was right.

By my book you did right. I believe your claim right now.

[Voltaire]

I didn't think you were the best choice. And why would I follow those instructions anyway? Weren't you criticizing Voltaire for following Voltgloss too blindly, without questioning orders? How is this much different? I did what I thought was right.

By my book you did right. I believe your claim right now.

I should expand on this a bit. Once again, if Walrus is scum, he's not taking the easy mislynch. It does explain his hesitance today. And he defended me early today, consistent with his claim.

[Dsell]

Oh guys. I am like 5 pages behind. I am going to catch up as quickly as I can but I make no promises about it being tonight.

[Voltaire]

Oh guys. I am like 5 pages behind. I am going to catch up as quickly as I can but I make no promises about it being tonight.

It is your turn to show claim, if you can at least do that.

[Dsell]

Oh guys. I am like 5 pages behind. I am going to catch up as quickly as I can but I make no promises about it being tonight.

It is your turn to show claim, if you can at least do that.

Community

[Voltaire]

Cool. AHoppy and TA, you can claim in any order. Once they've done that, chairs, and we're finished with this step.

[Twistedarcher]

Modern Family

Are we massclaiming? What's with all the claims??

[Archetype]

There are like 12,000 cops and none of them investigated me, huh?

Why so eager to be investigated?

GodfatherGodfatherGodfather

I believe Walrus' claim. I don't think he's like auto Town, but I believe him.

Speaking of believing claims, I'm not so sure abot Eevee's.

Vote:Eevee

[EFHW]

Ok, there's a lot going on.  I find Walrus's claim believable, and I hope it's not just b/c having Voltaire cleared makes everything simpler.  Since it was N1, and kills are resolved last, then the psychologist receiving a negative result would mean the target was indeed not capable of killing.

I can't remember why Robz was supposed to be investigated.  Does anyone else?

I'm completely null on Eevee's claim.  It doesn't help us at all, it only helps him.  So vote staying put at this point.

[Twistedarcher]

Ok, there's a lot going on.  I find Walrus's claim believable, and I hope it's not just b/c having Voltaire cleared makes everything simpler.  Since it was N1, and kills are resolved last, then the psychologist receiving a negative result would mean the target was indeed not capable of killing.

This is not how psychologist worked in clue, at least.

[EFHW]

If Voltaire was SK Walrus would have no motive to lie for him.

@sudgy -- I think you said ashersky confirmed that you are unable to use your doctor power now?  I think we should assume sudgy was the only captained PR, if so, because losing two or more PR's just like that would be way too swingy. 

I really wish mcmc had claimed at least partially.  I really did think he was scum.  When he popped in to vote for me and popped out again, I think that sealed the deal for a lot of other people, too.  His posts were not coherent, which tends to be a big scumtell for me.   

PPE: re: psychologist, are you sure?  Maybe we need clarification from the mods.

[EFHW]

What are people thinking now about liopoil/Jorbles?  There was a big movement to lynch liopoil.  Where did it go?

[EFHW]

Modern Family

Are we massclaiming? What's with all the claims??

chairs thinks he may be able to clear someone, depending on which show they are from.  So we are all showclaiming.  Then he will say if his result is meaningful, and who he targeted, I think.

[Twistedarcher]

What are people thinking now about liopoil/Jorbles?  There was a big movement to lynch liopoil.  Where did it go?

I still absolutely believe he is town.

[Twistedarcher]

Modern Family

Are we massclaiming? What's with all the claims??

chairs thinks he may be able to clear someone, depending on which show they are from.  So we are all showclaiming.  Then he will say if his result is meaningful, and who he targeted, I think.

No I mean role claiming. So far we have galzria sudgy chairs bocaj eevee walrus.

[Galzria]

Also:  Remember I also proposed Archetype as a possible lynch.  Similar to your proposing ahoppy, almost nobody responded to that (the only one I remember is Robz).  Do you draw the same conclusions vis-a-vis Archetype as you do vis-a-vis ahoppy?  If not, what is different?

Just starting my catchup, but I -believe- that I do, yes. I haven't actually reread Archetype, so I couldn't say for certain.

Also, I want to elaborate that I don't HAVE a scum read on AHoppy. Nor do I have a town read. The whole thing with him at deadline followed thusly:

Shortly before the craziness started, I asked why AHoppy hadn't been talked about. Voltaire said that in fact he had, and that town had come to the consensus that his posts, while few, were chock full of content. I expressed that I had looked for both the discussion, and the consensus that he spoke of, but could find neither.

Fast forward to TA suggesting EFHW (or rather, the point you said "operation quickhammer"). The biggest point I saw TA making was that he didn't expect either "attention" lurker (lio/mcmc) to be scum, but instead felt that scum would be one of the less talked about lurkers (Shraeye was, to an extent). I was asked (I think by TA) if I had a town read on EFHW. At that point I had a null read, so I pulled her up and reread. During this, you questioned why I wasn't posting, and asked what my thoughts were. Having reread her, I found that:

A) She wasn't lurking. At nearly 50 posts she was pretty average.
B) She asked a lot of questions and brought plenty of content.

So I posted that I did not, in fact, think she was a great lynch. In the same post, I mentioned that AHoppy fit the criteria that TA was supposedly interested in much better than EFHW. I then immediately decided that since I wasn't big on mcmc/lio/EFHW, and time was running short, I should at least open up a fourth avenue. I voted.

Voltaire came forward with "I won't lynch AHoppy, period.". This struck me as odd considering my previous exchange with him over AHoppy, and the fact that he had AHoppy listed as one of his top town reads all day long, well before I believe strong reads were even available towards any player.

In any case, you condemned the action, TA more or less refused, and that was that. My whole point in the vote however, wasn't that I found him particularly scummy, it was that I was looking for a viable alternate lynch that fit the criteria listed by TA.

What I took away from that is that TA didn't have any real criteria. It left me feeling that there might be a connection there. I don't know. But the whole thing struck me as odd.

Not that TA was the worst offender on that front. Maybe he honestly didn't feel we had time. You certainly didn't. Voltaire is who really stood out. Especially considering he knows AHoppy's flavor.

[EFHW]

For some reason I can't find psychologist in the wiki, only psychiatrist, which is something else entirely.  I'm pretty sure it used to be there....

[EFHW]

What are people thinking now about liopoil/Jorbles?  There was a big movement to lynch liopoil.  Where did it go?

I still absolutely believe he is town.

Ok, I'm not saying I disagree, but can you elaborate as to why?

[EFHW]

vote: not invite Dede  Since I don't know what it means, I'll opt for getting the two choices closer to even. 

[Twistedarcher]

What are people thinking now about liopoil/Jorbles?  There was a big movement to lynch liopoil.  Where did it go?

I still absolutely believe he is town.

Ok, I'm not saying I disagree, but can you elaborate as to why?

I think lio was very towny yesterday. I also have a bit more role related info that makes me really think he's town (not confirmed but it makes a lot more sense for him to be town than scum)

Ppe: boo

[Twistedarcher]

Galz, I see your post, give me a bit to respond

[EFHW]

@Walrus -- gunsmith can only detect firearms.  You say your role is modified gunsmith.  Does that mean you can detect all methods of killing?

PPE:  TA, is Dede a friend of yours?

[Voltaire]

Also, the biggest point towards town lio is that the day kept stalling at periods when he was the default lynch (nkirbit, too). I pointed this out. I think that means he's town.

[Galzria]

OK, serious question time.

This was the peak of the EFHW wagon. She was tied with our eventual lynch, mcmc. I've colored our flips.

Vote Count 1.33:

liopoil (7): Robz888, shraeye, AHoppy, Dsell, faust, sudgy, Galzria
nkirbit (1): bocaJ
sudgy (1): Eevee
mcmc (5): EFHW, Walrus, mail-mi, Archetype, chairs
chairs (1): nkirbit
EFHW (5): Voltgloss, Voltiare, mcmcsaolot, liopoil, Twistedarcher

Not Voting (0):

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch.

Day 1 ends on September 23 at 9:22 p.m.

OneHalf hour to deadline.

And again, I've got a town read on EFHW.

I do not believe mcmc's lynch was scum free.

I do not believe that all 5 on EFHW's wagon are town that switched from one town to another (well, 4, discounting mcmc himself).

Voltgloss is town.

That leaves you, TA and liopoil.

Galz: 

I understand your townread on EFHW.  I agree there was likely scum on mcmc's wagon.

Here's where I need help following your reasoning:

Put yourself in the shoes of scum on mcmc's wagon.  The IC, one of the people on that wagon, suddenly starts a new wagon on another person.  Assume for the sake of argument that the target of that wagon (EFHW) is also town.

Do you switch?  If so, why?

Now, flip it around.  Put yourself in the shoes of scum on liopoil's wagon.  The IC, one of the people on the competing wagon, suddenly starts a new wagon on another person.  Assume for the sake of argument that the target of both that wagon (EFHW) and the wagon you're on (liopoil/Jorbles) is town.

Do you switch?  If so, why?

Situations:

#1:
Lio - scum
EFHW - scum
Mcmc - town

#2:
Lio - scum
EFHW - town
Mcmc - town

#3:
Lio - town
EFHW - scum
Mcmc - town

#4:
Lio - town
EFHW - town
Mcmc - town

#1:
You switch from town mcmc to scum EFHW.

Scum on mcmc don't follow. Scum on liopoil MIGHT follow. I don't expect many scum on lio here though. Bad time to bus when there's a viable town wagon. Either be on mcmc, or be effectively nowhere. No way scum on mcmc flip though.

Town on mcmc might follow, they might not. They don't know mcmc is town. Same for town on liopoil. I can't really speculate on town, since each player will respond based on their own reads.

#2:
You switch from town mcmc to town EFHW.

Scum on mcmc follow. If they don't, they risk liopoil getting the lynch by splitting the votes on two other town wagons. Scum on liopoil (if there are any, see above) likely jump ship to EFHW. They couldn't justify mcmc for whatever reason (previously stated town reads, whatever), so they take this.

#3:
You switch from town mcmc to scum EFHW.

Scum on mcmc stay put. If they're feeling really frisky, or absolutely don't think it'll go down, they follow. Following is GREAT for them here as long as the lynch doesn't happen. Tons and tons of potential town credit down the line. Scum on the lio wagon play similar. They're on town already, and don't want to see EFHW lynched. But if they can, they would vote her for credit down the line.

#4:
You switch from town mcmc to town EFHW.

Scum on mcmc follow. Why not? The IC basically told them to and there's no consequence. They don't care who's lynched. Scum on liopoil could follow as well for the same reason. What I don't expect is for all scum to act the same. They don't all want to end on the same mislynch, so some go, some don't.

Now, with all of that said, there's a number of people who jumped ?liopoil? to mcmc towards the end. Some did so after it mattered (why?), some did so at critical junctures. If liopoil is scum, that subset of players have some answering to do. However, I would at that point also look harder at EFHW. Because if liopoil is scum, and those people wanted off his wagon bad enough to switch late to make sure mcmc was the lynch instead of liopoil, then why didn't they go to EFHW?

Still, that last paragraph is based on "lio is scum", which we don't know.