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[AndrewisFTTW]

You assume I ignored it because it would support your cause to mislynch town. You also keep referring to my "case" on you and ask for people to comment on it. But here's the thing: I don't have a case! At least I didn't when I first voted and I don't have to have a case to think you're scum either. You reacting so strongly and constantly trying to draw attention to my vote on you has made you my number one scum read. I also like how you accuse me of tunneling when actually you're the one who keeps relentlessly pushing me.

To answer your question (which I missed), I just thought you were being snarky for little to no reason besides maybe trying to provoke Jimm. You can say that's towny any day of the week and I can't really argue with you, but I saw it as scummy.

This is helpful, thanks. You voted for me without a reason but also maybe because I was snarky and now I am your number one scumread but also you still don't have a case on me.

Also I can accuse you of tunneling me while also not denying that I am tunneling you. The difference is that I presented a case.

I didn't say I voted for you without a reason. But hey, read what you want to read and ignore what you don't.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I was against lynching anyone at the top of the post count charts in general.

I was about type something about how premature it is to call scum teams (dude, just try to get one right), but then I remembered I've said the same thing to mcmc many times before. Probably not an alignment-tell for him, although I don't remember his alignments from previous times (people are usually town, so probably town though).

I guess I'll bite anyways, why me+galzria+twm?

B) TWM was actually in pretty hot water, I now know two townies(myself/jreggie) who were advocating for his lynch. If Twm is town that's a great wagon for scum to join. But what happens is galzria storms the thread an eloquently convinces a huuuge number of players to jump over to jreggie (yourself included) decimating the twm wagon at the same time since jreggie was a big proponent of it.

This is a good point that I want to look into. The "great wagon for scum to join" part. I obviously don't agree with the me-Galz/Eevee team part. I often feel that I am a bit of a scumbait when I am town.

[2.71828.....]

Cuzz is the one who looks the most partnerish, but you know, the evidence is thin.

I honestly have no clue how you got this from what Calamitas posted.

I rather got it from what Cuzz posted about Calamitas.

I just read through Cuss's D1 posts, and I honestly have no clue how you drew your conclusions.

But really, what I find most interesting is how Andrew joined you on a fairly terrible case against Cuzz.  I don't know exactly how it makes me feel other than the general sense of scumminess permeating that little wagon, and I don't necessarily know if that is scum!faust or scum!andrew.  Right now I am leaning more on scum!andrew sheeping faust on a case that seems plausible ("because faust posted it and is a good mafia player obviously"), didn't really look into it, and liked the idea of lynching Cuzz.

PPE: I power through PPEs and don't even bother with them.

Cna you show me a better case that has been made than the one I made on Cuzz?

Cuzz's case on Andrew is better than the one you made on Cuzz.

Let me review your case on Cuzz.

1) Cuzz points out that Calamitas is lurking
(and around the same time talks about how it seems as if f.ds has a "don't lynch lurkers" policy.  Clearly disagreeing and totally willing to lynch Calamitas)

2) Calamitas is in Cuzz's "would lynch" group
(you know, because Calamitas is lurking and Cuzz has no problem lynching lurkers.)

Yeah.  There isn't actually a case.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

OK.

J Reggie starts the voting on me.
Ash joins - no explanation
mcmc joins - no explanation
Dylan joins - no explanation
sudgy joins. He is the first to provide something of an explanation, FYI. faust has already shown how the reasoning looks fabricated.
2.7 joins - fun place to join
mcmc comes back on
sudgy comes back on voting for me for unvoting J Reggie, which was clearly me being factitious about Jimmmm's request to not end the day early.

And then that is it for Day 1. sudgy votes me again for supposed Calamatis interactions. Again, he didn't actually reread Calam or at least didn't post those, he just found ones that pertained to me and only analyzed those.

vote: sudgy I think both of his votes on me today are reflective of scum falling for me as bait lynch with fabricated or forced reasons.

And I could also look at Dylan/2.7. Ash is an enigma and I see mcmc as town.

[mcmcsalot]

Hey Andrew what do you think about my theories about galz/eevee/twm?

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Cuzz is the one who looks the most partnerish, but you know, the evidence is thin.

I honestly have no clue how you got this from what Calamitas posted.

I rather got it from what Cuzz posted about Calamitas.

I just read through Cuss's D1 posts, and I honestly have no clue how you drew your conclusions.

But really, what I find most interesting is how Andrew joined you on a fairly terrible case against Cuzz.  I don't know exactly how it makes me feel other than the general sense of scumminess permeating that little wagon, and I don't necessarily know if that is scum!faust or scum!andrew.  Right now I am leaning more on scum!andrew sheeping faust on a case that seems plausible ("because faust posted it and is a good mafia player obviously"), didn't really look into it, and liked the idea of lynching Cuzz.

PPE: I power through PPEs and don't even bother with them.

Cna you show me a better case that has been made than the one I made on Cuzz?

Cuzz's case on Andrew is better than the one you made on Cuzz.

Let me review your case on Cuzz.

1) Cuzz points out that Calamitas is lurking
(and around the same time talks about how it seems as if f.ds has a "don't lynch lurkers" policy.  Clearly disagreeing and totally willing to lynch Calamitas)

2) Calamitas is in Cuzz's "would lynch" group
(you know, because Calamitas is lurking and Cuzz has no problem lynching lurkers.)

Yeah.  There isn't actually a case.

That's a terrible case

[mcmcsalot]

Twm what do you think about Andrew?

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Twm what do you think about Andrew?

Also Unvote

[2.71828.....]

I was against lynching anyone at the top of the post count charts in general.

I was about type something about how premature it is to call scum teams (dude, just try to get one right), but then I remembered I've said the same thing to mcmc many times before. Probably not an alignment-tell for him, although I don't remember his alignments from previous times (people are usually town, so probably town though).

I guess I'll bite anyways, why me+galzria+twm?

A) your post said you didn't want to lynch two people, for gkrieg you gave a reason "making sense and being helpful" that player is now a confirmed townie and dead because of mafia. For twm you couldn't come up with anything other than "I don't like lynching him".
B) TWM was actually in pretty hot water, I now know two townies(myself/jreggie) who were advocating for his lynch. If Twm is town that's a great wagon for scum to join. But what happens is galzria storms the thread an eloquently convinces a huuuge number of players to jump over to jreggie (yourself included) decimating the twm wagon at the same time since jreggie was a big proponent of it.
C) Then because people want to "wait" both you and galz find ways to slither off the jreggie wagon so that when it eventually gets lynched you are nowhere on the wagon.
D) after voting twm most of the day jreggie had moved his vote to galz.

I like what you are doing looking at the transition between the TWM wagon and J Reggie wagon.  I have thoughts but don't have time to write them down right now.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

My thoughts on Andrew a few hours ago. I don't think much has changed.

I am not feeling the Andrew wagon. gkrieg was significantly different yesterday and I had a question mark next to him in my QT, so I see where Andrew's vote was coming from.

At the least I think we can say Andrew and ash aren't scum partners. As I think they would have argued against a gkrieg NK.

Cuzz seemed to zero in on the last paragraph, which is really the most insignificant part. Mostly I don't see him as scummy for tunneling gkrieg. If you are behind sometimes tunneling, I think, can be an unintended side-effect of that.

[gkrieg13]

Vote Count 2.2

Cuzz (2): faust, AndrewisFTTW
mcmcsalot (1):  Jimmmmm
sudgy (1): The_Wine_Merchant
O (1): Awaclus
AndrewisFTTW (3): Cuzz, pingpongsam, 2.71828....
SpaceAnemone (3): LaLight, O, Eevee
The_Wine_Merchant (1): sudgy

Not Voting (8): RoadRunner7671, Dylan32, iguanaiguana, SpaceAnemone, mcmcsalot, ashersky, Galzria, JaketheBaseballGod22

With 20 alive it takes just 10 to lynch. Day 2 ends on Sunday, May 28th, at 11:00 AM Forum Time.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

To give a further example of sudgy's bad reasoning, he found one post from me that had to do with Calamatis. But when you look at that specific post you immediately see that my responses is immediately after Calamatis' post. If I am town, I don't know Calamatis' alignment and want to be helpful to anyone in the town because odds are that they are town as well.

Furthermore, finding me scummy for one post interacting with someone is absurd, especially for a person of my vote count #. Let's look at the player list and see how many other players I interacted with yesterday.


Mafia 100: Forum All-Stars -- DAY 2
« on: May 01, 2017, 02:34:47 pm »
ReplyQuote
Welcome to Mafia 100: Forum All-Stars

It was five years ago this very month that a group of f.ds regulars decided to play a game of online mafia. Ninety-nine games later, the Forum Games community is still going strong, featuring an ever-evolving cast of dedicated players.

Quote from: jotheonah on November 10, 2012, 05:55:15 pm
Who knew that people who came together because of a shared love of playing games would also love playing games?

Remember the epic scum wins and hilarious town losses. Recall the mislynches, busses, and OMGUSes. Toast the fake claims--the creative and the awful. Join me, Robz888, in a celebration of all things mafia, and sign-up for our hundredth regular game.

This will be a semi-invented, open game modeled on faust's Pick Your Power X/Y/Z setup for Mafia 40. Exact details--a list of all available PRs, role PMs, etc.--will be provided after the game has filled. The setup will be tweaked depending on the number of people playing. It's currently designed for about 18 people, but since this is a special occasion I will adjust it in order to accommodate up to 20 (ish) players. The game will not begin until either Mafia 98 or 99 are finished, or almost finished, unless otherwise agreed to by all the players.


Players List

1. JReggie - interacted with. vote for duh.
2. Galzria - interacted with. talked about LaLight
3. gkrieg - interacted with. talked about claiming
4. The_Wine_Merchant - myself
5. Calamitas - see above
6. Eevee - multiple conversations
7. faust - agreed with
8. LaLight - defended
9. Awaclus - voted for initially
10. SpaceAnemone - talked about LaLight
11. 2.71828..... - was suspicious of
12.pingpongsam - voted for
13. Dylan32 - talked about dylan
14. RoadRunner - maybe actually nothing here?
15.iguanaiguana - joked with
16. Jimmmmm - talked about extending day
17. O - town read
18. AndrewisFTTW - nothing here?
19. Cuzz - talked about O.
20. ashersky - voted for me.
21. JaketheBaseballGod22 - talked about m99.
22. mcmcsalot - voted for/by
23. sudgy - voted for

So out of 21 other players I didn't have interactions with RR and Andrew. I think that would be similar for most other players that have about the same number of posts as me.

[sudgy]

I haven't had time to read the last couple pages and have to go, but I'll say something from earlier:

Basically, Calamitas and TWM seemed to notice each other more than others did.  I know it's not terribly useful info, but I feel like it's something.  I still find TWM to be scummy, so Vote: The_Wine_Merchant for now.

I dunno. You point at two interactions, which is definitely more than average, but there are other people that Calamitas interacted with more. The first is just Calamitas clutching to setup and PR discussions (as usual), and for the second post, TWMs post is the post post after Calamitas asks that, so it's kinda natural that he would respond. Both these things seem very weak evidence to me and this looks more like confirmation bias.

I said it was combined with my earlier scumread.

he decided to reread Calamatis and conveniently only found the posts that already confirmed a scumread on me, I want to vote him.

And, in reply to both of the quotes, please show other posts that Calamitas had actual interesting interactions with others.  It mostly was setup theory which anybody can fake, and asking about the J Reggie wagon (which anybody could do).  These were the only two interesting things I saw him post.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Cuzz is the one who looks the most partnerish, but you know, the evidence is thin.

I honestly have no clue how you got this from what Calamitas posted.

I rather got it from what Cuzz posted about Calamitas.

I just read through Cuss's D1 posts, and I honestly have no clue how you drew your conclusions.

But really, what I find most interesting is how Andrew joined you on a fairly terrible case against Cuzz.  I don't know exactly how it makes me feel other than the general sense of scumminess permeating that little wagon, and I don't necessarily know if that is scum!faust or scum!andrew.  Right now I am leaning more on scum!andrew sheeping faust on a case that seems plausible ("because faust posted it and is a good mafia player obviously"), didn't really look into it, and liked the idea of lynching Cuzz.

PPE: I power through PPEs and don't even bother with them.

Just because I'm voting the same person faust is doesn't mean I'm sheeping faust.

[AndrewisFTTW]

I think if I'd been part of a scum faction, the smart thing would have been to keep my inferences quiet.

This is real scummy.

Hmm. I assert that it isn't, because I'm not scum. Why do you think I'd be more inclined to say something like that as scum than as town, especially given the context in which I said it?

I just think generally scum is more cognizant of and vocal about "what they'd do as scum."

I have been accused of doing this both times when I was town (and also when I was mafia). I think it has more to do with whether someone is more introspective or not. I agree that it cane be a sign, but I think in this context it is more likely to be pretty neutral.

^I agree with this and am wary of anyone who puts forth such an argument about something like this. These things aren't 100%.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Need to put things down that I am thinking. I can't seem to access my QT at the moment, so I am going to put this here even though they aren't fully fleshed out yet. So sorry for lack of explanations behind them.

I am getting scummy vibes from 2.7 and Eevee. I want to go back and reread both of them and figure out why. faust feels very town. Still think O is town.

I'm feeling the scums from 2.7 too.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say I think I'm somewhat kinda maybe a little decent at reading TWM and I think maybe he might possibly sorta be town? Maybe?

[AndrewisFTTW]

Hey Andrew what do you think about my theories about galz/eevee/twm?

Glad you asked! Here's what you put down for reference:

I was against lynching anyone at the top of the post count charts in general.

I was about type something about how premature it is to call scum teams (dude, just try to get one right), but then I remembered I've said the same thing to mcmc many times before. Probably not an alignment-tell for him, although I don't remember his alignments from previous times (people are usually town, so probably town though).

I guess I'll bite anyways, why me+galzria+twm?

A) your post said you didn't want to lynch two people, for gkrieg you gave a reason "making sense and being helpful" that player is now a confirmed townie and dead because of mafia. For twm you couldn't come up with anything other than "I don't like lynching him".
B) TWM was actually in pretty hot water, I now know two townies(myself/jreggie) who were advocating for his lynch. If Twm is town that's a great wagon for scum to join. But what happens is galzria storms the thread an eloquently convinces a huuuge number of players to jump over to jreggie (yourself included) decimating the twm wagon at the same time since jreggie was a big proponent of it.
C) Then because people want to "wait" both you and galz find ways to slither off the jreggie wagon so that when it eventually gets lynched you are nowhere on the wagon.
D) after voting twm most of the day jreggie had moved his vote to galz.

A) I don't think this is much of a tell.
B) Yeah I can see where you're coming from with this but I think we need a flip from one of them before condemning the other.
C) Again I don't think this is much of a tell. I don't think scum is ever all that concerned about whether they're on or off a town wagon at the end of the day. Maybe that's just me though.
D) I personally don't ever put much stock into a dead towny's last vote. JR could've been as clueless as anyone.

I could maybe be convinced to vote galz, not so much TWM though.

[AndrewisFTTW]

OK.

J Reggie starts the voting on me.
Ash joins - no explanation
mcmc joins - no explanation
Dylan joins - no explanation
sudgy joins. He is the first to provide something of an explanation, FYI. faust has already shown how the reasoning looks fabricated.
2.7 joins - fun place to join
mcmc comes back on
sudgy comes back on voting for me for unvoting J Reggie, which was clearly me being factitious about Jimmmm's request to not end the day early.

And then that is it for Day 1. sudgy votes me again for supposed Calamatis interactions. Again, he didn't actually reread Calam or at least didn't post those, he just found ones that pertained to me and only analyzed those.

vote: sudgy I think both of his votes on me today are reflective of scum falling for me as bait lynch with fabricated or forced reasons.

And I could also look at Dylan/2.7. Ash is an enigma and I see mcmc as town.

Forgot Dylan was in this game. Jeez.

I'm not sure what you're getting at exactly about sudgy. Bait lynch? Can you explain further please?

[AndrewisFTTW]

Wait! You have another post, hold on!

[AndrewisFTTW]

Can you provide some quotes or quote numbers TWM?

[mcmcsalot]

My thoughts on Andrew a few hours ago. I don't think much has changed.

I am not feeling the Andrew wagon. gkrieg was significantly different yesterday and I had a question mark next to him in my QT, so I see where Andrew's vote was coming from.

At the least I think we can say Andrew and ash aren't scum partners. As I think they would have argued against a gkrieg NK.

So I ask twm about andrew and he says check what I said a few hours ago which was basically "I don't find andrew scummy for voting a townie" and "I think andrew would have wanted a different nk due to that vote" so your thoughts on andrew revolve around one single thing. And that thing happened a long time ago Day 1.

Followed by:

Need to put things down that I am thinking. I can't seem to access my QT at the moment, so I am going to put this here even though they aren't fully fleshed out yet. So sorry for lack of explanations behind them.

I am getting scummy vibes from 2.7 and Eevee. I want to go back and reread both of them and figure out why. faust feels very town. Still think O is town.

I'm feeling the scums from 2.7 too.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say I think I'm somewhat kinda maybe a little decent at reading TWM and I think maybe he might possibly sorta be town? Maybe?

Andrew giving the hedgiest of townreads on twm without really providing a reason even after I asked him about twm and his thought about galz being a moving force away from twm onto jreggie.

Add andrew to my scumteam, my preferred lynch order is andrew>twm>galz>eevee.

We can deal with lurky serial killer ashersky later.(just a hunch)

Ppe: andrew answered me, will respond to that in the next post. Hint it's also super scummy.

[mcmcsalot]

Hey Andrew what do you think about my theories about galz/eevee/twm?

Glad you asked! Here's what you put down for reference:

A) youreevee post said you didn't want to lynch two people, for gkrieg you gave a reason "making sense and being helpful" that player is now a confirmed townie and dead because of mafia. For twm you couldn't come up with anything other than "I don't like lynching him".
B) TWM was actually in pretty hot water, I now know two townies(myself/jreggie) who were advocating for his lynch. If Twm is town that's a great wagon for scum to join. But what happens is galzria storms the thread an eloquently convinces a huuuge number of players to jump over to jreggie (yourself included) decimating the twm wagon at the same time since jreggie was a big proponent of it.
C) Then because people want to "wait" both you and galz find ways to slither off the jreggie wagon so that when it eventually gets lynched you are nowhere on the wagon.
D) after voting twm most of the day jreggie had moved his vote to galz.

A) I don't think this is much of a tell.
B) Yeah I can see where you're coming from with this but I think we need a flip from one of them before condemning the other.
C) Again I don't think this is much of a tell. I don't think scum is ever all that concerned about whether they're on or off a town wagon at the end of the day. Maybe that's just me though.
D) I personally don't ever put much stock into a dead towny's last vote. JR could've been as clueless as anyone.

I could maybe be convinced to vote galz, not so much TWM though.

So your answers are basically all that you don't find any of these things to be alignment indicative(which is convenient because then you don't have to make a read) that you kinda see what I'm getting at about someone being the driving force from one wagon to the other but you can't make any conclusions about it now. And finally you say you could maybe be convinced to vote veteran eloquent and frequently town read galz but not so much under fire possibly getting lynched two days in a row twm. This is so gosh darn partnery I'm losing my mind.

[faust]

Cuzz is the one who looks the most partnerish, but you know, the evidence is thin.

I honestly have no clue how you got this from what Calamitas posted.

I rather got it from what Cuzz posted about Calamitas.

I just read through Cuss's D1 posts, and I honestly have no clue how you drew your conclusions.

But really, what I find most interesting is how Andrew joined you on a fairly terrible case against Cuzz.  I don't know exactly how it makes me feel other than the general sense of scumminess permeating that little wagon, and I don't necessarily know if that is scum!faust or scum!andrew.  Right now I am leaning more on scum!andrew sheeping faust on a case that seems plausible ("because faust posted it and is a good mafia player obviously"), didn't really look into it, and liked the idea of lynching Cuzz.

PPE: I power through PPEs and don't even bother with them.

Cna you show me a better case that has been made than the one I made on Cuzz?

Cuzz's case on Andrew is better than the one you made on Cuzz.

Let me review your case on Cuzz.

1) Cuzz points out that Calamitas is lurking
(and around the same time talks about how it seems as if f.ds has a "don't lynch lurkers" policy.  Clearly disagreeing and totally willing to lynch Calamitas)

2) Calamitas is in Cuzz's "would lynch" group
(you know, because Calamitas is lurking and Cuzz has no problem lynching lurkers.)

Yeah.  There isn't actually a case.

You're right, and it's not the case I'm currently making. That is that Cuzz' comments towards Andrew expose that he is analyzing things from a scum mindset.

[faust]

I haven't had time to read the last couple pages and have to go, but I'll say something from earlier:

Basically, Calamitas and TWM seemed to notice each other more than others did.  I know it's not terribly useful info, but I feel like it's something.  I still find TWM to be scummy, so Vote: The_Wine_Merchant for now.

I dunno. You point at two interactions, which is definitely more than average, but there are other people that Calamitas interacted with more. The first is just Calamitas clutching to setup and PR discussions (as usual), and for the second post, TWMs post is the post post after Calamitas asks that, so it's kinda natural that he would respond. Both these things seem very weak evidence to me and this looks more like confirmation bias.

I said it was combined with my earlier scumread.

I know. It's why I used the term "confirmation bias".

[AndrewisFTTW]

What can I say? I've got a townread on TWM. The only "hedginess" I guess you could glean from that was I also thought gkrieg was scum and I was wrong, so maybe I'm wrong about TWM too. You say my answers are "convenient" because then I don't have to make a read. So if I answered all four questions by saying "yes, this 100% means TWM and galz are partners" you would think I'm town?

I don't think pointing at someone and saying "they're scummy because they don't have fully formed reads" is really helpful. And besides, I do have some strong reads so to assume I don't is a little strange.