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[The_Wine_Merchant]

I certainly am trying to win.

Then you must be not town. Vote: O

Prediction. This vote will not move for the rest of the day.

[Awaclus]

I certainly am trying to win.

Then you must be not town. Vote: O

Prediction. This vote will not move for the rest of the day.

I mean, it's possible we get better evidence against someone else, but that would be highly unusual, given that O has openly admitted that he's trying to win by not playing to town's best interests.

[mcmcsalot]

I find O to be a very useful pro-town player right now and would greatly object to lynching him today.

I am interested in your list of players you asked for opinions. 2 on your wagon, and two not-as-active players. Why us four?

Well jimm and eevee I wanted to give them something to re-assert themselves in the game and I was under the impression o was ozzle who eevee and jimm I think are good at reading. Same still goes a little for O since they actually played with him(at least eevee did) and then I wanted you and gkriegs opinions because I find you towny and value both your opinions. Also the fact that you two are voting for me gives more credibility to other townies who might worry I'm just calling in scumbuddies to confirm a narrative I've created for O.
Ppe:8

[O]

I find that word inherently uncivil. This is not RSP though and I will not participate in a discussion adjudicating that position.

I second this sentiment


Surely I'm especially sensitive here because came into this thread specifically trying hard to avoid anything remotely similar to Awaclus's behavior, because I think it harmed previous mafia games. So for that I'll just come out and apologize I guess, 5 years later, most specifically to Galzria who I was the largest dick to.

I certainly am trying to win.

Then you must be not town. Vote: O

You see I've done this before and the problem is it's circular logic. When I eventually flip town sometime later this game, you're going to fall back on the "O is just a shitty mafia player" paradigm instead of considering the possibility that you were wrong. It's really a vicious circle of confirmation bias.

[mcmcsalot]

But that doesn't mean I am wrong and I am trying to be aware of my bias.

So do you think you really only unvoted me because you didn't want to be too biased and then I continued to do things you found scummy so you decided to go back? That still doesn't let me know why while struggling to be unbiased you found my "take notes" pro town enough to invite but my "don't talk about the setup" as scummy.

[Awaclus]

When I eventually flip town sometime later this game

Nah, that's not going to happen.

[2.71828.....]

I think I will join the

vote: TWM

wagon.  It seems like a fun place to be.

[Galzria]

I certainly am trying to win.

Then you must be not town. Vote: O

Prediction. This vote will not move for the rest of the day.

I mean, it's possible we get better evidence against someone else, but that would be highly unusual, given that O has openly admitted that he's trying to win by not playing to town's best interests.

He's openly admitted that he's trying to win, and have fun at the same time. Strange concept, I know.

This is a terrible vote. And a ridiculous conversation. Everybody should be playing both to win and have fun.

[Awaclus]

He's openly admitted that he's trying to win, and have fun at the same time.

And have town not win at the same time.

Lynching on the basis of rude, unhelpful one-liners surely won't be some exceedingly pro-town strategy

I certainly am trying to win.

[Galzria]

I think I will join the

vote: TWM

wagon.  It seems like a fun place to be.

Got more than that?

Actually, mcmc, since you seem to be the biggest driver for this wagon, would you (and others feel free to chip in please) explain in detail your case/reasoning for voting TWM?

The primary thing I saw against him was that he talked about mass claim for awhile, and then changed his mind to be against it. This reads townie uncertainty to me more than mafia obfuscation. But if there's more I've missed I would like to know.

[O]

I think I will join the

vote: TWM

wagon.  It seems like a fun place to be.

Got more than that?

Actually, mcmc, since you seem to be the biggest driver for this wagon, would you (and others feel free to chip in please) explain in detail your case/reasoning for voting TWM?

The primary thing I saw against him was that he talked about mass claim for awhile, and then changed his mind to be against it. This reads townie uncertainty to me more than mafia obfuscation. But if there's more I've missed I would like to know.

Isn't Mcmcmc wagoning me right now?

[2.71828.....]

I think I will join the

vote: TWM

wagon.  It seems like a fun place to be.

Got more than that?

Actually, mcmc, since you seem to be the biggest driver for this wagon, would you (and others feel free to chip in please) explain in detail your case/reasoning for voting TWM?

The primary thing I saw against him was that he talked about mass claim for awhile, and then changed his mind to be against it. This reads townie uncertainty to me more than mafia obfuscation. But if there's more I've missed I would like to know.

Isn't Mcmcmc wagoning me right now?

he is voting for you right now.

[O]

frankly the TWM wagon is incomprehensible to me.

[mcmcsalot]

I think I will join the

vote: TWM

wagon.  It seems like a fun place to be.

Got more than that?

Actually, mcmc, since you seem to be the biggest driver for this wagon, would you (and others feel free to chip in please) explain in detail your case/reasoning for voting TWM?

The primary thing I saw against him was that he talked about mass claim for awhile, and then changed his mind to be against it. This reads townie uncertainty to me more than mafia obfuscation. But if there's more I've missed I would like to know.

Isn't Mcmcmc wagoning me right now?

Yes I'm voting you and I want to know what the other people I asked about you think. I'll admit I liked your response to my post about you and have lessened my scum read on you. Twm on the other hand has not been responding in a tonwy way.
vote: twm

[Galzria]

He's openly admitted that he's trying to win, and have fun at the same time.

And have town not win at the same time.

Lynching on the basis of rude, unhelpful one-liners surely won't be some exceedingly pro-town strategy

I certainly am trying to win.

He's saying he's voting you for being anti-fun, and that it "surely won't be some exceedingly pro-town strategy" --- In the same way that voting someone who is being anti-town (RR's "I'm not reading all this") "surely won't be some exceedingly pro-town strategy" - as neither are exceedingly likely to find scum.

At least that's my take.

[mcmcsalot]

frankly the TWM wagon is incomprehensible to me.

Ugh at work it's hard to formulate the proper case but I understand things have moved quickly. I'll post it in a bit. Or if galz wants to just go through my last few posts and see what I said about twm. My case has nothing to do with going back and forth about massclaiming.

[O]

That would be the accurate interpretation, yes.

[Cuzz]

I think I will join the

vote: TWM

wagon.  It seems like a fun place to be.

Got more than that?

Actually, mcmc, since you seem to be the biggest driver for this wagon, would you (and others feel free to chip in please) explain in detail your case/reasoning for voting TWM?

The primary thing I saw against him was that he talked about mass claim for awhile, and then changed his mind to be against it. This reads townie uncertainty to me more than mafia obfuscation. But if there's more I've missed I would like to know.

Isn't Mcmcmc wagoning me right now?

Yes I'm voting you and I want to know what the other people I asked about you think. I'll admit I liked your response to my post about you and have lessened my scum read on you. Twm on the other hand has not been responding in a tonwy way.
vote: twm

mcmc, if you're town I don't think the whole "Vote O until he says something that pleases me at which point I'll move along" is helpful.

[2.71828.....]

frankly the TWM wagon is incomprehensible to me.

Ugh at work it's hard to formulate the proper case but I understand things have moved quickly. I'll post it in a bit. Or if galz wants to just go through my last few posts and see what I said about twm. My case has nothing to do with going back and forth about massclaiming.

me, I just joined because wagons are fun.  The first real wagon!  6 players and counting!

[O]

Cuzz when you flip scum you're gonna super bone me you know.

[Cuzz]

He's openly admitted that he's trying to win, and have fun at the same time.

And have town not win at the same time.

Lynching on the basis of rude, unhelpful one-liners surely won't be some exceedingly pro-town strategy

I certainly am trying to win.

He's saying he's voting you for being anti-fun, and that it "surely won't be some exceedingly pro-town strategy" --- In the same way that voting someone who is being anti-town (RR's "I'm not reading all this") "surely won't be some exceedingly pro-town strategy" - as neither are exceedingly likely to find scum.

At least that's my take.

I agree. And if someone knows of a D1 strategy that is "exceedingly likely to find scum" please do tell.

[2.71828.....]

Cuzz when you flip scum you're gonna super bone me you know.

this is the first scummy thing O has posted

[O]

@mcmc... the difference between what I said and what TWM said in response to your suspicions didn't feel that different except I found you not scummy and he found you "scummy, but with confirmation bias".

Are you sure you're not just OMGUSing a bit?

[AndrewisFTTW]

Slowly catching up. Gonna respond to various things as I see them.

Not reading a bunch of fluff might be anti fun, and it could even be anti town. My point is that posting a lot of stuff, regardless of what that stuff is, is scummy because gumming up the thread is an easy tactic to use here, and it's fairly effective.

This is so empirically anti-town I want us to lynch RR now.

You will hit an anti-town player, but I don't think you'll be hitting scum.

It's D1 and we're not likely going to lynch scum anyway. Lynching confirmed anti-town is worlds better than lynching a pro-town townie who just happened to get a wagon on them for nebulous "scumminess"

Scummy ^^

^I agree.

This seems like scummy TWM, which means that he is town.  Just like look at his newbie game.  He has a CRAZY different tone when he is scum compared to town.

Everyone brings up newbie mafia twm what about the game me and him were mafia together. I think this looks a hell of a lot like scum twm.

^I disagree.

[O]

Cuzz when you flip scum you're gonna super bone me you know.

this is the first scummy thing O has posted

If you want I can go and quote all the time's I've said something similar and it turned out to be true and I was scum breadcrumbing for lulz. Not the case here though.