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[O]

Lynching on the basis of lurking is retarded.

Vote:Awaclus

really all the confirmation I needed that Awaclus's mafia persona is a edgier version of my 16 year old self's.

Lynching on the basis of rude, unhelpful one-liners surely won't be some exceedingly pro-town strategy, but I've already stated I put pro-fun before pro-town so at least I'm consistent.

Here you go Space. I even admitted it!

[SpaceAnemone]

Lynching on the basis of lurking is retarded.

Vote:Awaclus

really all the confirmation I needed that Awaclus's mafia persona is a edgier version of my 16 year old self's.

Lynching on the basis of rude, unhelpful one-liners surely won't be some exceedingly pro-town strategy, but I've already stated I put pro-fun before pro-town so at least I'm consistent.

Here you go Space. I even admitted it!

Huh.. well thank you for finding the quote at least!

Is it possible that both you and Awaclus are just clashing over being stubborn?

[O]

Lynching on the basis of lurking is retarded.

Vote:Awaclus

really all the confirmation I needed that Awaclus's mafia persona is a edgier version of my 16 year old self's.

Lynching on the basis of rude, unhelpful one-liners surely won't be some exceedingly pro-town strategy, but I've already stated I put pro-fun before pro-town so at least I'm consistent.

Here you go Space. I even admitted it!

Huh.. well thank you for finding the quote at least!

Is it possible that both you and Awaclus are just clashing over being stubborn?

I mean it's not like I'm still voting for Awaclus, so I have to admit I think you're missing the mark on this one.

[SpaceAnemone]

I'm super-confused. I wrote a whole post about looking at all the earlier wagons late last night, and I could've sworn I posted it right before #4074.

Looking at my posting history, I'm at least relieved to find I haven't done something stupid like posted it in another game location. I really thought I'd posted it somewhere, though :-(

[Awaclus]

Lynching on the basis of lurking is retarded.

Vote:Awaclus

really all the confirmation I needed that Awaclus's mafia persona is a edgier version of my 16 year old self's.

Lynching on the basis of rude, unhelpful one-liners surely won't be some exceedingly pro-town strategy, but I've already stated I put pro-fun before pro-town so at least I'm consistent.

Here you go Space. I even admitted it!

Huh.. well thank you for finding the quote at least!

Is it possible that both you and Awaclus are just clashing over being stubborn?

Of course he's stubborn, he's scum trying to win the game.

[SpaceAnemone]

Lynching on the basis of lurking is retarded.

Vote:Awaclus

really all the confirmation I needed that Awaclus's mafia persona is a edgier version of my 16 year old self's.

Lynching on the basis of rude, unhelpful one-liners surely won't be some exceedingly pro-town strategy, but I've already stated I put pro-fun before pro-town so at least I'm consistent.

Here you go Space. I even admitted it!

Huh.. well thank you for finding the quote at least!

Is it possible that both you and Awaclus are just clashing over being stubborn?

I mean it's not like I'm still voting for Awaclus, so I have to admit I think you're missing the mark on this one.

You're currently the leading wagon, probably mostly because of the disagreement, which is a little problematic if you're town and can provoke more of us into wanting to lynch you anyway. I'm coming round to the idea that stubborn!town is a narrative that fits you. (I'm used to Awaclus, and I've seen instances where his playstyle works, as well as instances where it just serves to wind town up).

PPE 1

[sudgy]

Being pro-fun before pro-town isn't a scumtell, it's just not alignment indicative.

I would try to get rereads done, but whenever I try to download the pages here the formatting gets messed up.

[Robz888]

Being pro-fun before pro-town isn't a scumtell, it's just not alignment indicative.

I would try to get rereads done, but whenever I try to download the pages here the formatting gets messed up.

If you hit the "print" button at the top of the page, it might be easier. I've also had trouble opening the entire thread when my internet connection is bad.

[Awaclus]

Being pro-fun before pro-town isn't a scumtell, it's just not alignment indicative.

But if that's your idea of trying to win the game, then that is a scumtell.

[O]

Lynching on the basis of lurking is retarded.

Vote:Awaclus

really all the confirmation I needed that Awaclus's mafia persona is a edgier version of my 16 year old self's.

Lynching on the basis of rude, unhelpful one-liners surely won't be some exceedingly pro-town strategy, but I've already stated I put pro-fun before pro-town so at least I'm consistent.

Here you go Space. I even admitted it!

Huh.. well thank you for finding the quote at least!

Is it possible that both you and Awaclus are just clashing over being stubborn?

I mean it's not like I'm still voting for Awaclus, so I have to admit I think you're missing the mark on this one.

You're currently the leading wagon, probably mostly because of the disagreement, which is a little problematic if you're town and can provoke more of us into wanting to lynch you anyway. I'm coming round to the idea that stubborn!town is a narrative that fits you. (I'm used to Awaclus, and I've seen instances where his playstyle works, as well as instances where it just serves to wind town up).

PPE 1

I'm sorry what exactly am I being stubborn about? I have gone days ignoring Awaclus and he did not change his vote or view. I've simply accepted it as reality since there's nothing I can do to change the situation. I haven't been voting Awaclus. I have been contributing to the discussions of the town. I have played mafia as much as I normally can ignoring the votes.

I think you have a favorable view of Awaclus and are trying to shift the narrative to reflect that when it makes literally no sense here. I have not taken an action since day 2 about this issue, there's simply nothing I can do to change his voting style as long as people like you allow this anti-town, anti-fun play style to persist through games.

There is no duality in the stubbornness here. If you think there is, you should suggest a behavior I am being stubborn about and what I can change about it.

Unless you're saying "you're stubborn about Awaclus calling people retarded", then sure, I guess. I just find that oddly hypocritical.

[O]

Like Space, this is the series of events:

> Friction days 1/2
> Awaclus becomes likely!town and I proceed to scum hunt other people consistently (Faust, Ashersky, You, e for that short period obviously)
> Awaclus continues to vote me, professing that it's for the same original reason
> "oh wow you're both so stubborn to be continuing this"

It's beyond wrong, what you're saying is patently absurd to the point of gas lighting. I have played the game. He has not, substantially. There is a fundamental difference that you ignore. 

[Awaclus]

Lynching on the basis of lurking is retarded.

Vote:Awaclus

really all the confirmation I needed that Awaclus's mafia persona is a edgier version of my 16 year old self's.

Lynching on the basis of rude, unhelpful one-liners surely won't be some exceedingly pro-town strategy, but I've already stated I put pro-fun before pro-town so at least I'm consistent.

Here you go Space. I even admitted it!

Huh.. well thank you for finding the quote at least!

Is it possible that both you and Awaclus are just clashing over being stubborn?

I mean it's not like I'm still voting for Awaclus, so I have to admit I think you're missing the mark on this one.

You're currently the leading wagon, probably mostly because of the disagreement, which is a little problematic if you're town and can provoke more of us into wanting to lynch you anyway. I'm coming round to the idea that stubborn!town is a narrative that fits you. (I'm used to Awaclus, and I've seen instances where his playstyle works, as well as instances where it just serves to wind town up).

PPE 1

I'm sorry what exactly am I being stubborn about? I have gone days ignoring Awaclus and he did not change his vote or view. I've simply accepted it as reality since there's nothing I can do to change the situation. I haven't been voting Awaclus. I have been contributing to the discussions of the town. I have played mafia as much as I normally can ignoring the votes.

I think you have a favorable view of Awaclus and are trying to shift the narrative to reflect that when it makes literally no sense here. I have not taken an action since day 2 about this issue, there's simply nothing I can do to change his voting style as long as people like you allow this anti-town, anti-fun play style to persist through games.

There is no duality in the stubbornness here. If you think there is, you should suggest a behavior I am being stubborn about and what I can change about it.

Unless you're saying "you're stubborn about Awaclus calling people retarded", then sure, I guess. I just find that oddly hypocritical.

My playstyle is pro-town and pro-fun.

[Galzria]

Like Space, this is the series of events:

> Friction days 1/2
> Awaclus becomes likely!town and I proceed to scum hunt other people consistently (Faust, Ashersky, You, e for that short period obviously)
> Awaclus continues to vote me, professing that it's for the same original reason
> "oh wow you're both so stubborn to be continuing this"

It's beyond wrong, what you're saying is patently absurd to the point of gas lighting. I have played the game. He has not, substantially. There is a fundamental difference that you ignore.

I support everything O said here honestly. To characterize O's play in relation to Awaclus as being "mutually stubborn" is ridiculous. O has accepted Awaclus's IC status and then continued to play as if Awaclus isn't here because... What else is he supposed to do?

[SpaceAnemone]

My playstyle is pro-town and pro-fun.

Yeah, you're probably not helping with this right now. How about we try to move the discussion back to the game?

Let's assume O is in fact town, because maybe the thing you keep going back to from the early game could be a mis-read. What do you think of the other possible last-scum-standing candidates?

[SpaceAnemone]

Here's a re-post of what I was trying to post last night. I definitely didn't manage to get it out then, right? This may be the same thing I was trying to post, or an earlier draft... I sometimes work in a text file and then tidy it up in the browser, so this is the text-file version...

Around #1300, Galz was voting LL, and at the same time iguana was voting Galz. That would be quite a lot of early-game bussing if Galz is scum. Actually, from #297 up till #343, both ash and iguana (and nobody else) are voting for Galz. From #429 through to #731, both LL and iguana are on ash. So there is some definite early bussing happening.

Iguana was the next person onto the D1 JR wagon after sudgy. Would two scums be very likely to join together like that, or is it more of a pointer to Dylan being the on-wagon scum for that one?

In D2, iguana is voting for Galz from #1773 up to #2078. He spent part of D1 voting for Galz, and much of the rest bussing ash, till he joined the JR wagon and helped push through that mislynch.

Galz is on the e wagon. I feel like mafia ought to want the SK taken down, so it's odd that LL is the only mafia flip we have on e's wagon. That gives a few extra scum points to RR, Galz and sudgy. Notably, Dylan isn't on that wagon -- he's voting sudgy from #2915 onwards.

For the ash wagon, we have three known scum (LL, iguana and ash himself), and three (or two, depending on perspective!) known town (faust, Jake, me). The final member is sudgy. Maybe that's a townpoint for sudgy, since there's probably a limit to how many of them would get in on the bus, right?

D5 was the me-v-iguana day. Dylan came out on the right side along with RR. O and sudgy were gunning for me, and Galz didn't vote all day.

At the start of D6, Galz went for the sudgy wagon, and it nearly went through. I'd already said that I thought the last scum was one of the two of sudgy and Dylan. If I've been wrong about that, it would be very nice for the last scum to get one of them flipped and then use their town flip to justify lynching the other.

Now in D7, Dylan is voting Galz, though Galz hasn't (yet) voted Dylan in return. I feel like the two of them might be my top prospects for the day, though. I guess all that my ramblings above have done are to parallel Dylan's wagon-counting exercise and come up with similar conclusions; it's definitely not an independent way of looking at the data.

I still need to go back and read relevant sections surrounding these votes, rather than looking just at my vote counts in abstract. Right now it's sleep o'clock though!

[Awaclus]

Let's assume O is in fact town

While we're at it, let's also assume faust was a werewolf because making assumptions we know to be false is productive.

[Galzria]

My preference for today is probably Dylan or Sudgy. Maybe O?

If Sudgy is town then the remaining Mafia bussed LaLight. I don't feel like they would've done so early on the wagon, instead hoping or pushing a different wagon (like Faust or Sudgy here). But I also don't think they would've waited all the way out like O did. They would want some town points if they felt the wagon was going down and the hammer doesn't exactly buy much.

Dylan best fits that middle ground imo. That said I think that despite my jailing Sudgy he still fits into what I see as most likely for the remaining Mafia.

A) Low on sign up sheet. It's a smaller thing, but based on Ash's and Iguanas statements it still carries some weight.

B) Voting - and intent to voting - are all the places I would expect scum to be. Voting Ashersky was easy. But losing Iguana and then LaLight must have been hard. At those junctures Sudgy was voting Space (late, when his vote could've switched the tide from Iguana), and then Faust (which hit L-1 before I called it out and RR unvoted).

C) If he's a Strongman/RB then my jailing him would've had no effect last night.

So I think I'll stick with vote: Sudgy. I'm willing to listen to other cases here though.

[sudgy]

You know, given the fact that scum probably has a roleblocker/strongman still alive, Galzria is probably just a named townie at this point.  Maybe it would be okay to lynch him?  I don't know.  The thing is, scum has been consistently killing PRs for the last few nights, so it makes sense for them to keep Galz alive because they would rather kill others.

I've been rereading LaLight but I've been really tired so I haven't seen too much yet.  It is really weird how LaLight, Galzria, and O had this big scuffle in D1.

[sudgy]

Okay, at the beginning of day 2 LaLight is going after Space.  It doesn't seem like a bus for some reason.

[sudgy]

Darn it, just when Galzria seems like scum Lalight votes for him for a bit.  I can't tell what I think of Galzria.

[sudgy]

Some that I've noticed LaLight has done a lot is buddying the townspeople who were getting scumread.  He did it with one or two others that I can't remember at the moment, but I do remember him doing it with me a lot.

[sudgy]

Alright, I have to go now.  I'm going to be flying back tomorrow, so I'm not sure if I'll have time to get on then.  Maybe at an airport or something.  I didn't quite finish rereading LaLight, but I still do find Galzria a bit scummier in the end.  There's still a small possibility of him being good for town though so I'm still not sure if I would want to lynch him.

[SpaceAnemone]

Alright, I have to go now.  I'm going to be flying back tomorrow, so I'm not sure if I'll have time to get on then.

Are you around for Sunday at least? The deadline is on Monday, and I can already guarantee that I'm not going to be around for the deadline itself because of a choir rehearsal.

What's everyone else's deadline availability looking like? I think RR has posted a VLA from about 2 hours ago to Sunday afternoon, which takes him to Sunday night my time. It would be nice to avoid a panic-lynch, even if we can technically afford a mislynch at this point.

[Dylan32]

Alright, I have to go now.  I'm going to be flying back tomorrow, so I'm not sure if I'll have time to get on then.

Are you around for Sunday at least? The deadline is on Monday, and I can already guarantee that I'm not going to be around for the deadline itself because of a choir rehearsal.

What's everyone else's deadline availability looking like? I think RR has posted a VLA from about 2 hours ago to Sunday afternoon, which takes him to Sunday night my time. It would be nice to avoid a panic-lynch, even if we can technically afford a mislynch at this point.

I will be driving 12+ hours starting Sunday afternoon, so I'll probably be home before the deadline, but on the other hand, I will have been driving for a ridiculously long time and might be taking a much needed recovery nap. Don't count on me being around, but if I'm awake and functioning, I'll try to be here to be able to move my vote at least if needed.  My preference would be to be done before that though.

[O]

Why do we think Faust died last night? Mafia should know with relative certainty that he was out of Vig shots, right? Faust was town, Faust confirmed the two people he vigged, they both died..

I suspect I know why Awaclus wasn't shot instead, but to avoid obnoxious retorts I'll list both cases: If I'm scum, it's too risky to shoot Awaclus. If I'm town, might as well keep someone around who will only vote for a town member.

Galzria? Galzria's not as conf!town, possibly more framable. Or Galzria could be scum himself. If I were scum, unless for some bizarre reason I think Faust has a vig shot i'm shooting Galz every time here.

So I'd look in the pool of (Galzria, people trying to lynch Galzria) as the most likely scum pool, with high prejudice towards the people trying to lynch Galzria. So Sudgy and Dylan.

I don't think I want to lynch Galz at any point in the future TBH, so I'd be losing if he's scum and i'm alive.

Vote: Sudgy

My preference is Dylan but since I'm mostly committing to not voting Galzria everI'll join his wagon.

Preferences: Dylan > Sudgy > Roadrunner/Space >> Galzria >>>> Awaclus