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[gkrieg13]

Also I thought Space was a little bit townie for their evaluation of the setup, until I saw the scum QT for newbie mafia, and now it is super duper null for me.

What is it in that QT that makes you think that the likelihood of me sharing town-useful information in the main thread as scum have gone up compared to before?

Your long analysis of wagons. You do big analyses as scum.

[LaLight]

Also I thought Space was a little bit townie for their evaluation of the setup, until I saw the scum QT for newbie mafia, and now it is super duper null for me.

What is it in that QT that makes you think that the likelihood of me sharing town-useful information in the main thread as scum have gone up compared to before?

Your long analysis of wagons. You do big analyses as scum.

+1

[gkrieg13]

6) Yeah, I agree with Awaclus that Joseph is a strong contender for traitor. (#123).

And why is that?

I've got a few notes towards my case on Joseph, but nothing yet that couldn't be explained as a player who's just not very into the game and likes playing to their own low-utility-town meta.

7) I'm not sure whether to read anything into LL being so on top of solving the game state before most of the rest of us were awake/posting at the start of D2. Of course, we had all the data we needed after the flips, and he's clearly copy-pasted from my role breakdown, but chances are that scums would be quicker than towns to follow that through, given that they'd have had more info to pin the configuration down to begin with.

Uh, I think this is relatively weak.  Although on the other hand, I opened the thread, saw who was killed and thought "that is good and sucks at the same time" seeing that we had lost a couple PRs, and didn't look at the setup stuff, so I guess it isn't super weak.

1) You're being a Hedgey McHedgeface. I'm imagining schadd saying something similar in the speccy, but with less capitalization and possibly a less British way of putting it :-)

2) "Relatively weak" sums up everything about D1.

3) Let me quote your own post back at you:

I'm not gonna lie, my case on LaLight isn't that great, but I honestly think it is the strongest case we have, because of D1 being cut so short.

... if you're allowed weak evidence on LL, so am I!

If you put a [b'][/b'] (without the 's) in between it works I think 8) (quote that to see what I mean)

Genius! Thanks :-)

Ironically, the traitor thought that WW wasn't scum, so people saying that "one partner is here, another partner is there" aren't thinking correctly.

Which players have been pushing that style of argument? Mine was clearly talking about a singular partner, which would be all WW was aware of, given what we know about the setup.

Incidentally, gkrieg, you're possibly the most algorithm-literate person left alive in here now... did you ever take a look at the game breakdowns I posted and/or check I hadn't missed any other plausible configurations? (No offense to other alive people I know less well... I just don't know if any of the rest of you have computational backgrounds!).

I didn't look at your breakdown, but if you just look at the graph, it is obvious that you have the correct setup for this game. Knowing 2 town roles and 2 scum roles makes it really easy to do the rest of the matching by hand and see there aren't any other options.

[gkrieg13]

2 other people watching the thread, but neither of them are in the game...

sigh.

That's what you get for making loads of posts in the middle of the night :-P

Right now I appear to be the only one here. It just says "1 Member and 0 Guests are viewing this topic" -- how do you get identities to be able to tell that the other people watching aren't in the game?

If you click "home" and then the bottom button that says the number of guests and members online it will tell you what everyone is looking at

[gkrieg13]

6) Yeah, I agree with Awaclus that Joseph is a strong contender for traitor. (#123).

And why is that?

I've got a few notes towards my case on Joseph, but nothing yet that couldn't be explained as a player who's just not very into the game and likes playing to their own low-utility-town meta.

I actually hate playing and being inactive. It just happens that I've been away.

Also, you thought I was scum last game, and many other times too- have you ever been right about me being scum?

This is pretty scummy I think

[Joseph2302]

6) Yeah, I agree with Awaclus that Joseph is a strong contender for traitor. (#123).

And why is that?

I've got a few notes towards my case on Joseph, but nothing yet that couldn't be explained as a player who's just not very into the game and likes playing to their own low-utility-town meta.

I actually hate playing and being inactive. It just happens that I've been away.

Also, you thought I was scum last game, and many other times too- have you ever been right about me being scum?

This is pretty scummy I think

I think you're scummy.
Vote: Gkrieg's

[Joseph2302]

Vote: Gkrieg in case the last vote doesn't count

[LaLight]

6) Yeah, I agree with Awaclus that Joseph is a strong contender for traitor. (#123).

And why is that?

I've got a few notes towards my case on Joseph, but nothing yet that couldn't be explained as a player who's just not very into the game and likes playing to their own low-utility-town meta.

I actually hate playing and being inactive. It just happens that I've been away.

Also, you thought I was scum last game, and many other times too- have you ever been right about me being scum?

This is pretty scummy I think

Pretty scummy? For Joseph?
vote: gkrieg13
The guy is just casting shadows everywhere

[Awaclus]

I scumread everyone on my wagon

Ok.

[LaLight]

I scumread everyone on my wagon

Ok.

You confused Dylan and SA

[gkrieg13]

6) Yeah, I agree with Awaclus that Joseph is a strong contender for traitor. (#123).

And why is that?

I've got a few notes towards my case on Joseph, but nothing yet that couldn't be explained as a player who's just not very into the game and likes playing to their own low-utility-town meta.

7) I'm not sure whether to read anything into LL being so on top of solving the game state before most of the rest of us were awake/posting at the start of D2. Of course, we had all the data we needed after the flips, and he's clearly copy-pasted from my role breakdown, but chances are that scums would be quicker than towns to follow that through, given that they'd have had more info to pin the configuration down to begin with.

Uh, I think this is relatively weak.  Although on the other hand, I opened the thread, saw who was killed and thought "that is good and sucks at the same time" seeing that we had lost a couple PRs, and didn't look at the setup stuff, so I guess it isn't super weak.

1) You're being a Hedgey McHedgeface. I'm imagining schadd saying something similar in the speccy, but with less capitalization and possibly a less British way of putting it :-)

2) "Relatively weak" sums up everything about D1.

3) Let me quote your own post back at you:

I'm not gonna lie, my case on LaLight isn't that great, but I honestly think it is the strongest case we have, because of D1 being cut so short.

... if you're allowed weak evidence on LL, so am I!

I agree that the evidence is weak, I'm not saying you shouldn't use it.  I'm surprised you haven't voted yet, although I think that is a townie trait for you.

[gkrieg13]

No matter their alignment I don't think anyone would have actually hammered. I know I wouldn't have and I am pretty sure LL wouldn't have ethier.

But you also have to look at what LaLight did instead of hammering.  He started pushing for RR, which is exactly what a partner does when their buddy is closish to being lynched.

Wait... instead of hammering who?

LL could have hammered WW at any point in the whole 10-minute window during which WW was at L-1, between posts #86 and #87...

(And the person who left the wagon at #87 was Robz, who moved his vote to LL).

Possibly, but why would LL (or anyone else) have wanted to hammer WW so early in the day?
It seems somewhat reasonable to me that LL looked for alternative options.

For like the millionth time, I think it is the way LaLight left the wagon, and tried to get another wagon going that he is scummy, not that he didn't hammer WW when given the chance.

[gkrieg13]

a^n + b^n = c^n

Vote Count 2.3

Awaclus (1): LaLight
LaLight (3): Awaclus, gkrieg13, Dylan32

Not Voting (3): Joseph2302, SpaceAnemone, JaketheBaseballGod22, Jimmmmm

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 2 ends May 6th at 3:30 am forum time.

Yay Fermat's Last Theorem!

Also, LL wagon has stalled at L2

What do you think that says about the wagon?

[Joseph2302]

No matter their alignment I don't think anyone would have actually hammered. I know I wouldn't have and I am pretty sure LL wouldn't have ethier.

But you also have to look at what LaLight did instead of hammering.  He started pushing for RR, which is exactly what a partner does when their buddy is closish to being lynched.

Wait... instead of hammering who?

LL could have hammered WW at any point in the whole 10-minute window during which WW was at L-1, between posts #86 and #87...

(And the person who left the wagon at #87 was Robz, who moved his vote to LL).

Possibly, but why would LL (or anyone else) have wanted to hammer WW so early in the day?
It seems somewhat reasonable to me that LL looked for alternative options.

For like the millionth time, I think it is the way LaLight left the wagon, and tried to get another wagon going that he is scummy, not that he didn't hammer WW when given the chance.

I know what you're saying.
I just disagree that it's scummy.

[gkrieg13]

6) Yeah, I agree with Awaclus that Joseph is a strong contender for traitor. (#123).

And why is that?

I've got a few notes towards my case on Joseph, but nothing yet that couldn't be explained as a player who's just not very into the game and likes playing to their own low-utility-town meta.

I actually hate playing and being inactive. It just happens that I've been away.

Also, you thought I was scum last game, and many other times too- have you ever been right about me being scum?

This is pretty scummy I think

I think you're scummy.
Vote: Gkrieg's

It is pretty scummy to try to get people to doubt their ability to read you.  That is something that scum wants to do that town doesn't want to do.

[gkrieg13]

6) Yeah, I agree with Awaclus that Joseph is a strong contender for traitor. (#123).

And why is that?

I've got a few notes towards my case on Joseph, but nothing yet that couldn't be explained as a player who's just not very into the game and likes playing to their own low-utility-town meta.

I actually hate playing and being inactive. It just happens that I've been away.

Also, you thought I was scum last game, and many other times too- have you ever been right about me being scum?

This is pretty scummy I think

Pretty scummy? For Joseph?
vote: gkrieg13
The guy is just casting shadows everywhere

Where am I casting shadows?  And why is what I'm doing scummy?

[gkrieg13]

I scumread everyone on my wagon

Ok.

Note to self when I read this later, this is not actually what LaLight said.  The quote was modified.

[SpaceAnemone]

Also I thought Space was a little bit townie for their evaluation of the setup, until I saw the scum QT for newbie mafia, and now it is super duper null for me.

What is it in that QT that makes you think that the likelihood of me sharing town-useful information in the main thread as scum have gone up compared to before?

Your long analysis of wagons. You do big analyses as scum.

I analyse voting patterns every game nowadays. If you want me to post my total coloured-in rolling vote count for this game so far, I can do so later, but I only have that on my laptop, and I won't be back on that till I'm home after choir later tonight. (I assume I can put colour into a code tag, so as not to clog the thread too much, though I can't remember whether I've tried that before).

Anyway, in what way is my paying attention to votes related to how null or otherwise my breakdown of the setup probabilities is?

[SpaceAnemone]

I didn't look at your breakdown, but if you just look at the graph, it is obvious that you have the correct setup for this game. Knowing 2 town roles and 2 scum roles makes it really easy to do the rest of the matching by hand and see there aren't any other options.

The real reason this is relevant is that it demonstrates that you didn't worry about it in D1 but you are probably capable of having checked.

Now, maybe that's just because you weren't particularly present, maybe you just trusted that I'm right (working alone a lot, I never trust myself without good reason, because there' nobody else on hand to spot my mistakes), but it could also be that you weren't interested because scum had more information given that they knew about the set of scum roles in the game.

At least, that was my thinking when I asked you the question. Looking at the possibilities and the graph now, marginalising on the scum roles we now know are in the game doesn't really narrow the possible town roles down that much. That's actually a pretty neat feature of the game design :-)

[SpaceAnemone]

If you click "home" and then the bottom button that says the number of guests and members online it will tell you what everyone is looking at

Ah, okay. I knew about that page, but it only tells you what the latest page each user loaded is, AFAIK. I'd wondered whether there was a way to list all the users who'd loaded a page/topic in the past few minutes or something. Though I think I'm quite happy about it if the answer is no, because I'm not sure I want to admit to having seen some of the things I've noticed and then run quickly away from over in RSP, for instance!

[SpaceAnemone]

I scumread everyone on my wagon

Ok.

Note to self when I read this later, this is not actually what LaLight said.  The quote was modified.

Interesting. I opined to RR a few days ago over in NM10 (#527) that altering the content of a quote is a really dishonest thing to do.

[Awaclus]

I scumread everyone on my wagon

Ok.

Note to self when I read this later, this is not actually what LaLight said.  The quote was modified.

Interesting. I opined to RR a few days ago over in NM10 (#527) that altering the content of a quote is a really dishonest thing to do.

It's not a dishonest thing to do. It's a fun and effective way to make a point.

[SpaceAnemone]

I scumread everyone on my wagon

Ok.

Note to self when I read this later, this is not actually what LaLight said.  The quote was modified.

Interesting. I opined to RR a few days ago over in NM10 (#527) that altering the content of a quote is a really dishonest thing to do.

It's not a dishonest thing to do. It's a fun and effective way to make a point.

It's something I object to in the strongest of terms, because it's an incorrect representation of something someone said, presented in a format usually reserved for verbatim reproductions. I'm also not a fan of quoting such a minimal subset of a post that the apparent context changes, but that's harder issue to draw a line around.

It's likely that the person whose words have been edited is much more likely to be aware of the edit than any player (I hadn't noticed your "funny effective point" till gkrieg pointed it out), so it suggests itself to me as a vehicle for some attempts at subtle signalling, re the cryptography discussion going on elsethread. It may be interesting to discuss that over there once this game has concluded.

[SpaceAnemone]

Theory question for anyone who feels like contributing to the game over the next few hours: should we be trying to lynch the other scum right now, or are there arguments for settling on a traitor lynch?

Are the people on the LL wagon of the opinion that he's scum-and-not-traitor?

[Awaclus]

I scumread everyone on my wagon

Ok.

Note to self when I read this later, this is not actually what LaLight said.  The quote was modified.

Interesting. I opined to RR a few days ago over in NM10 (#527) that altering the content of a quote is a really dishonest thing to do.

It's not a dishonest thing to do. It's a fun and effective way to make a point.

It's something I object to in the strongest of terms, because it's an incorrect representation of something someone said, presented in a format usually reserved for verbatim reproductions. I'm also not a fan of quoting such a minimal subset of a post that the apparent context changes, but that's harder issue to draw a line around.

It's likely that the person whose words have been edited is much more likely to be aware of the edit than any player (I hadn't noticed your "funny effective point" till gkrieg pointed it out), so it suggests itself to me as a vehicle for some attempts at subtle signalling, re the cryptography discussion going on elsethread. It may be interesting to discuss that over there once this game has concluded.

You can feel free to object to it. It's not against the rules, however.