Hey, this game suddenly got slow!
I want to summarise what evidence ash has about faust being scum, based on the fact-arguments he's actually given. If he'd like to weigh in and correct me if I'm wrong, that's great.
Here's a mention from ash quite early on about faust perhaps being a WW:
So Faust and Gala are partners here, pretty much.
Can you expand on this? Seems like a risky move to tie themselves together so much so soon. Desperate times, I guess, especially if they are WW together.
Then, at the very start of the second phase of the mass-claiming exercise, when most people had only claimed VT/non-VT and bidding position, and Jake had just claimed Tracker:
I have a counterclaim thing of sorts, if folks want to kill the massclaim now. Plenty of info already.
From my perspective, I think at least two and maybe three scum have outed themselves, not including the RR/2.7 thing.
And he remains really eager to cancel the rest of the claiming exercise without getting to the point where we force scum into a corner with contradictions or having to report results:
I have a counterclaim thing of sorts, if folks want to kill the massclaim now. Plenty of info already.
I dunno... if we get all the VTs to claim slots, then we could force out other errors. I'd prefer we complete the exercise rather than leaving it half-done with all this info out there already for scum.
Could be. I'm not really caring much about draft order, and we know all the slots now. There should be enough information for PRs to know what's what at this point, no? Like me.
Here's an information post, though it follows a lot of dragging-of-feet and being missing from the game
and he says he's still not actually caught up:
I am here, but not caught up on the last however many pages -- just skimmed some the more recent stuff yesterday.
If someone can tell me if there's more to the RR/2.7 thing than I'm understanding, I'd appreciate it. They both claimed the exact same draft position and slot, correct? And neither has even tried to correct themselves? So one has to be lying.
So that's nice.
As for my information, I can still claim, although deadline is much closer than I expected. I am directly countering someone, and I believe it very strongly suggests the existence of WWs (instead of just an SK) and who one or both are.
While that's important, if it isn't going to change the outcome of today's lynch (my info does not touch on RR/2.7), it seems better to save the info until tomorrow for a few reasons:
--if you think I'm lying, I'm easily blocked or dead tonight anyway
--if I die, my flip will tell you everything you need to know anyway
I'm going to go catch up now, as much as I can for now.
Okay, so he goes on to claim role-cop, but here he's saying that
his death will tell us everything you need to know, which is emphatically not true of role-cop results if the cop dies before claiming. Even if we'd read what he wrote about faust, it would only implicate faust and not whichever person was his "definite" ash-is-so-sure-he's-practically-IC partner. Recall that when he first made a "reveal" post, he'd said that "at least two and maybe three scum have outed themselves".
Next, he drops down to saying he can confirm one scum, maybe two:
I'm in the enviable position of having useful information that confirms one scum and maybe two. And, I can die tonight and you still get this information.
This isn't a hider not appropriately allowing for town to know who I hid behind and dying without use. This isn't a cop getting a result they can only share with the spectator QT.
I'm found money at this point. The information I've leaked has me in scum's crosshairs, but they know killing me will out them definitively.
Basically, I've lived up to my proclamation from the beginning of the game. I'll need to thank Jimmmmm (of all people) in my MVP acceptance speech.
Did he ever explain all this Jimmmmm stuff he keeps going on about? I haven't actually noticed it in my re-read, but it wouldn't surprise me if he's throwing in references to long-ago play just to confuse the newerbies like me.
Mcmc's on the right track, btw. I definitely feel no need to give scum further info here -- if I'm dead you'll see why, if I live I'll explain why.
I'm at a very high level of confidence here, which is not a normal stance for my play. I honestly feel like an IC.
-- Again, this thing about him being dead explaining everything makes no sense with his later revelations.
Ash's next line of argument seems to centre around faust not actually being the vig after all, which seems exceedingly unlikely given that the fact we had three deaths last night means there pretty much has to be a vig present, or an inventor who poisoned someone the previous night, since all other methods by which someone might be dead seem to have been used up by this point
No surprise Faust comes out swinging. He knows he's caught.
I won Role Cop.
N1 AND N2 I investigated faust. I received No Result both times. After the way D2 progressed, it became clear to me that he won his claimed slot but bid on investigation immune. Given his propensity for being everyone's favorite night target -- I copped him, after all -- this makes perfect sense.
He fakeclaimed something safe from the same slot he won. I was convinced he was WW with Galz due to this tactic, which makes sense if you look at the JK slot. Galz won the conversion, faked JK; Faust joined him, faked Vig.
The SK existing helps Galz only slightly in my opinion -- the WW thing was based on his clear ties to Faust as well as the twin claiming, so he could still be Mafia with Faust, of course. And the jailing could be completely false, or true, if they are partners. But Faust I know for sure must be lying (unless I was jailed/blocked N1, as an edge case).
I am holding off my N3 result (you know why) until I see some flailing from Faust. And by flailing I mean angry and flabbergasted at the idiocy of it all Faust, because that's what caught faust does to get out of trouble. (We are kind of alike sometimes).
vote: faust
I do agree that faust's vig choices don't look great from my perspective:
Faust has stated that he has killed two towny players who no actual town Vig would ever want to kill.
Huge town mistakes, as O says? From arguably the best mafia player on the board? Highly doubtful. If he's actually Town (he's not), this is easily his worst performance, ever. But it's not.
There's no doubt he had a strong hand in killing those towny players. He ordered them.
-- I don't actually understand what ash is trying to imply with the last line of the above quote, though.
Another suggestion that faust isn't really a vig:
Also, what benefit do I get from lying here?
I'm the much townier player, I have the actual result. If I'm lying I get a 1-for-1 trade with a VT?
The fact that faust has not even considered that fact means he's not really the Vig.
Out for the night. Back tomorrow.
I also heartily disagree with any notion that he's a townie player.
As for the N3 claiming, ash refuses to take part at first, even though it was suggested that he should go first (he does eventually offer some after-the-fact justification about trying to avoid scum lies; I suspect he needed the info to make sure his lies aren't caught). So, Galz claims to have tracked Ash at #3472, and then at #3478, Jake claims to have tracked ash, getting "No Result". Only after these claims does ash confirm he had no result, and only after further prompting from faust at #3490 does he actually tell us who his supposed role-cop target was at #3504.
Ash makes a big long argumentative/defensive post at #3486, which deserves its own treatment really, but his "look at all the evidence I'm townie" opening section is full of holes and lacking in solid evidence. It's sort of continued at #3504: his response to faust deliberately takes the questions entirely the wrong way, seems upset that people are interested in having lost three townies last night, and then attempts to re-focus onto me-vs-iguana before the end of his answer about why there should even have been two deaths (which was asked in response to ash accusing faust of not being the vig).
Question #2 -- the WW theory only doesn't hold up because we now know there are no WWs. When the possibility they existed was still in play, the theory was valid and good.
False. As pointed out, I cannot both have won a slot and have been converted to a Werewolf. Only VTs get converted to Werewolf.
This is correct, and I concede the point that my theory appears to not have been right. I literally didn't know this, because I'm not a WW, nor did I look at WW roles because I wasn't an SK or a VT.
-- one last quote, which I feel just undermines the whole lot of "I'm so IC" certainty with which Ash started his hinting and claiming about how he'd got evidence directly implicating werewolves in particular.
Maybe I didn't need to go through this whole exercise because surely he's scummy enough that other people see it well too. What I'd actually wanted (and still want, really!) was for ash to write up all his evidence and current story about how he thinks the game has gone, explaining his overblown WW confidence and early comments about maybe having outed three scums etc. I don't want to delay the game waiting for it, though, so I wanted to piece together what I could see for myself. I don't think it hangs together very well.
Vote: ashersky (L-2)
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Topic: Mafia 100: Forum All-Stars -- GAME OVER (Read 423329 times)