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[pingpongsam]

I think Jimmmmm stands a decent chance of being scum. the only counterargument that could be made is that as scum he probably would have been more active. But otherwise he's been lurky, unhelpful, and has emphatically delayed the game at key points. At this specific point the delay could easily be a scum tactic.

[pingpongsam]

That said, I don't think we outright need to end the day right now and lynch Jimmmmm, that's definitely too hasty.

[pingpongsam]

Unvote

[LaLight]

For me personally Jimmmmm falls under the category of people who are really lurky and relatively scummy in this game along with Sudgy, Space, Dylan, Jake and maybe someone else. ANy of them is a good lynch, but of course I don't want to lynch Jimmmmm hastely before he claims.

[2.71828.....]

Yeah, I am not saying jimmmmm is a terrible lynch, I just think that the wagon itself was terrible.

I get faust's vote, but then everyone else just piling on opportunisticly, there are better uses of your time. Like, convince me that my reasoning behind not wanting to mass claim is wrong.

[2.71828.....]

 basically what TWM said. Keep scum hunting, you don't have to stop all activity waiting for a claim. That (the idea that all activity stops until claims are complete) is very scummy, and I think the development of the wagon is the embodiment of that idea. Is each person individually scummy? Meh. Is the wagon scummy? Yes.

[LaLight]

Yeah, I am not saying jimmmmm is a terrible lynch, I just think that the wagon itself was terrible.

I get faust's vote, but then everyone else just piling on opportunisticly, there are better uses of your time. Like, convince me that my reasoning behind not wanting to mass claim is wrong.

For me, the reasoning is this: all the roles that are left that may possibly be acquired by town are not superpowerful in the sense that outing then will cost us a game. On the contrary: we will have many ICs, scum will not dare to counterclaim with 17 people alive and even if they do, well, bad for them. We will have a good lynchpool of vts and many almost-IC people

[pingpongsam]

Like, convince me that my reasoning behind not wanting to mass claim is wrong.

I can't say it is de facto wrong. I think there is inherent danger in it. I can tell you why I support it. I am a little townie with little information. I'd like to make more informed decisions moving forward if possible. More importantly, I think we need to see how the setup presumably shook out to determine if mcmc/twm can truly be trusted and maybe even corner scum in a fake claim.

[2.71828.....]

Yeah, I am not saying jimmmmm is a terrible lynch, I just think that the wagon itself was terrible.

I get faust's vote, but then everyone else just piling on opportunisticly, there are better uses of your time. Like, convince me that my reasoning behind not wanting to mass claim is wrong.

For me, the reasoning is this: all the roles that are left that may possibly be acquired by town are not superpowerful in the sense that outing then will cost us a game. On the contrary: we will have many ICs, scum will not dare to counterclaim with 17 people alive and even if they do, well, bad for them. We will have a good lynchpool of vts and many almost-IC people

I guess I disagree with some of the analysis there. Yes. Outing PRs will not cost us the game. And yes, scum are less likely to counterclaim now. But i find trackers, watchers, alignment cops, role cops, and doctors (all still possible in the unclaimed slots) very useful to town. And that utility fades away if they have claimed.

And I really just think this is being rolled out too early. PRs can claim if they are about to be lynched, yeah. We just really didn't need the mass claim today.

[faust]

Yeah, I am not saying jimmmmm is a terrible lynch, I just think that the wagon itself was terrible.

I get faust's vote, but then everyone else just piling on opportunisticly, there are better uses of your time. Like, convince me that my reasoning behind not wanting to mass claim is wrong.

I don't see the point; you already said that you'll cooperate. That would be more of a waste of time than anything else we could do, including voting for Jimmmm.

[2.71828.....]

Yeah, I am not saying jimmmmm is a terrible lynch, I just think that the wagon itself was terrible.

I get faust's vote, but then everyone else just piling on opportunisticly, there are better uses of your time. Like, convince me that my reasoning behind not wanting to mass claim is wrong.

I don't see the point; you already said that you'll cooperate. That would be more of a waste of time than anything else we could do, including voting for Jimmmm.

Yeah, but that doesn't mean I won't do it while kicking and screaming. And maybe, just maybe, I can convince some of you that this is actually not a great idea and people will start supporting not claiming today and then it doesn't have to happen.

[faust]

Well good luck with that.

Anyway we should all vote: sudgy

[LaLight]

Well good luck with that.

Anyway we should all vote: sudgy

Why exactly?

[SpaceAnemone]

If TWM/Awaclus/mcmc agree, I think we should award Jimmmmm a bucketload of scum points, make him claim early in round 2, and continue with round 1 rather than allowing him to stall the process.

[SpaceAnemone]

FOS to everyone willing to vote for Jimmmm, but not to do anything else.

Yeah, on the one hand the wagon only got to L-4, but on the other hand, it went fast and a sudden popular wagon seems way more desirable for scum than for town.

I think even if/when we find someone we're convinced is likely scum, we want to take the end-of-day wagon carefully. It may even be worth it to scum for them to sacrifice one of their own to mess up the claiming process, so I think it's a bit dangerous to get too pissed off at people not playing along.

[Dylan32]

Seems like quite a bit has happened. So I'm inclined to believe the claims until we have other evidence or claims that would contradict them. However, I do know of at least one possibility of how the claims could go (other than a straight up counterclaim) that would lead me to strongly believe that someone specific is lying. I don't want to say more til after claims are done for obvious reasons.  Right now, I'm probably at 80% trusting that faust is town, 79.9% sure Galz is town, I'm leaning scum on Ash, and I'm 94% sure the previous group of 3 are all town, but at this point if mcmc and twm are pulling a fast one, I would almost just concede and say they deserve co-mvp and Players of the Year recognition for it or something.

I still think Sudgy is scummy, and today has done nothing to improve that read. These are his only posts today:

I don't believe in suboptimal play of Galzria. something pings me here

I'm not really V/LA right now. Just super drunk. Just fayi. Birthday brewery hopping. Yay!

Theory question for anyone that wants to answer it.

If you were mafia, would you have bus driven mcmc last night or would you have saved it for a later day?

With only 1-shot, it's in the scum team's best interest you use it with lots of info.  And the very public mod ruling would absolutely require that a scum bus driver save their shot.  That Robz post killed a lot of strategy space for scum.

Scum would know this a lot better than town would.  Vote: ashersky I think that's L-3.

I'm really busy again over the next couple of days.

PPE L-2

Scum would know this a lot better than town would.  Vote: ashersky I think that's L-3.

I'm really busy again over the next couple of days.

PPE L-2

I think at this point, the main people who want to run up a speedy wagon are the scums desperate to get to nighttime again so they can drop another townie and work out how to survive the massclaim. For everyone else, there will be more information to vote on if we go through with the claiming than there is available now.

I don't want to end the day.  I just wanted to vote him.  And sorry about the counting, I just quickly saw all vote: ashersky's in the day.

Theory question for anyone that wants to answer it.

If you were mafia, would you have bus driven mcmc last night or would you have saved it for a later day?

With only 1-shot, it's in the scum team's best interest you use it with lots of info.  And the very public mod ruling would absolutely require that a scum bus driver save their shot.  That Robz post killed a lot of strategy space for scum.

Scum would know this a lot better than town would.  Vote: ashersky I think that's L-3.

I'm really busy again over the next couple of days.

PPE L-2

Easily the weakest note I have ever seen.

Player A: "Hey, what would scum go in this situation?"
Player B: "The clear and obvious thing is X."
Player S: "Vote player B OMG he knows what scum would do he's scum!!!"

Better arrest all the good cops in the world for figuring out what obvious moves criminals will make.

It's combined with the 17 other things you've done.  I just thought that was a fun way to vote.

Anyway, I support this massclaim.

This strikes me as scummy.

I'm a VT.  I got draft #7 and got too cocky and went for Universal Backup (because it sounded fun and could be possibly be useful).

Based on claim, it's possible based on slot claim that scum!sudgy was really going for bus driver. If Eevee's mason partner (most likely the original mason) was lower that #7 or got it from a random slot, it wouldn't look good for sudgy.

For now, Vote: sudgy

PPE 3

[Dylan32]

Well good luck with that.

Anyway we should all vote: sudgy

Well, just realized that if faust is actually scum, I just gave into the "Point suspicion and let townies fill in reasons for you" plan...

[Awaclus]

If TWM/Awaclus/mcmc agree, I think we should award Jimmmmm a bucketload of scum points, make him claim early in round 2, and continue with round 1 rather than allowing him to stall the process.

Sure.

[Dylan32]

It looks like I'm after Jimmmmm.

I am a VT and got draft position #8.

[Awaclus]

I'm 94% sure the previous group of 3 are all town

Personally, I'm like 90-93% sure.

[faust]

Well good luck with that.

Anyway we should all vote: sudgy

Well, just realized that if faust is actually scum, I just gave into the "Point suspicion and let townies fill in reasons for you" plan...

I suspected sudgy first though. Like way back on D1. Noone wanted to join me besides Eevee, and that in itself is a sign of sudgy being scum.

[pingpongsam]

Well good luck with that.

Anyway we should all vote: sudgy

Well, just realized that if faust is actually scum, I just gave into the "Point suspicion and let townies fill in reasons for you" plan...

I suspected sudgy first though. Like way back on D1. Noone wanted to join me besides Eevee, and that in itself is a sign of sudgy being scum.

Which is why you shot cuzz?

[faust]

Well good luck with that.

Anyway we should all vote: sudgy

Well, just realized that if faust is actually scum, I just gave into the "Point suspicion and let townies fill in reasons for you" plan...

I suspected sudgy first though. Like way back on D1. Noone wanted to join me besides Eevee, and that in itself is a sign of sudgy being scum.

Which is why you shot cuzz?

No.

[faust]

I shot sudgy N1 FWIW, but Galzria stopped that from being a thing.

[pingpongsam]

I shot sudgy N1 FWIW, but Galzria stopped that from being a thing.

Congruency is worth quite a bit I'd say.