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[ashersky]

I see the game is back on, have skimmed through but am insanely busy this week, at least until Thursday.

Will try to keep reading along as possible.

[mcmcsalot]

@twm, I will say I know part of the reason I was townreading sudgy is I remembered him reading me well in the past and when O asked about my playstyle sudgy chimed in saying he remembered that I normally look scummier as town and townier as scum, which I think is very true (hence the amount of "slips" townie or scummy I've had this game). This is probably less alingnment indicative than I took it at the time.

I made that post without rereading him nor do I have any more note about him besides the fact that I found him slightly town and gkrieg made a case for him being town. So it's definitely not a strong read.

[Cuzz]

I don't get the argument? Wouldn't a partner of Calamatis' be careful not to say something like that?

levels and levels

Space is smart and concious enough to make this post being Calamitas' partner

Hey, you (and maybe faust, but definitely you!) should know me well enough to understand that me addressing a point or two to Calamitas about something setuppy when he and I are both clearly struggling to engage with the wild reads party of D1 is not unusual in the slightest. I think if I'd been part of a scum faction, the smart thing would have been to keep my inferences quiet.

This is real scummy.

[Cuzz]

I am not feeling the Andrew wagon. gkrieg was significantly different yesterday and I had a question mark next to him in my QT, so I see where Andrew's vote was coming from.

At the least I think we can say Andrew and ash aren't scum partners. As I think they would have argued against a gkrieg NK.

The vast vast majority of pairs of people in this game are not scum partners.

Yes. Thanks. I too can math. But I would say these two have a higher chance. And I think that is worth pointing out for the future. It might not help us decide whom to lynch now, but is still something worthwhile.

You're saying without hard evidence that something with about a 4% chance of being true by random happenstance can be ruled out. I'm not sure that's all that worthwhile

[faust]

Cuzz, you're here. Why are you not answering this:

Also this is a bad vote and I'm not sure you've been paying attention to anything I've done all game if this is enough for you to vote for me.

What have you done this game that you think shows that you are town?

I'm sure that would be more productive than arguing with TWM about how productive his post was.

[Cuzz]

Also this is a bad vote and I'm not sure you've been paying attention to anything I've done all game if this is enough for you to vote for me.

What have you done this game that you think shows that you are town?

I think I've been doing quite a bit (posting reads, encouraging conversation, giving reasons for all my votes) but that's not even what I meant. I just meant that I've said and done a large enough volume of stuff in this game that if I were scum you'd probably be able to find better evidence of it than whatever Andrew is using that he still hasn't explained.

ppe: speak of the devil

[faust]

Also this is a bad vote and I'm not sure you've been paying attention to anything I've done all game if this is enough for you to vote for me.

What have you done this game that you think shows that you are town?

I think I've been doing quite a bit (posting reads, encouraging conversation, giving reasons for all my votes) but that's not even what I meant. I just meant that I've said and done a large enough volume of stuff in this game that if I were scum you'd probably be able to find better evidence of it than whatever Andrew is using that he still hasn't explained.

ppe: speak of the devil

But you aren't scum right? So it should come as no surprise to you that this is the first piece of evidence found. (Cue caught for the wrong reasons.)

[mcmcsalot]

Faust I'm curious why you think cuzz is scum based off of the very limited actions he had with cal compared to the rest of his posts versus the amount space interacted with cal compared to their overall posts.

I think my highest scumreads are lalight and space currently

[SpaceAnemone]

sorry, was slipping banter in with agree with you.

I have never seen this word in my life. Cool one

It means joking around but with a "making fun of" connotation. Like if you are teasing someone but the intent is to have them tease you back, not to hurt anyone's feelings.

This type of interaction appears to be mostly fun to straight white men, and annoying to everyone else (yeah, I'm overgeneralizing, but only just...). In the UK at least, you'll get "laddish" types defending their overtly sexist/racist/homophobic outpourings as "just a bit of banter" or "bants".

Anyway, it's a word you might want to take care about using in some IRL contexts, lest you get taken the wrong way :-)

[Cuzz]

Also this is a bad vote and I'm not sure you've been paying attention to anything I've done all game if this is enough for you to vote for me.

What have you done this game that you think shows that you are town?

I think I've been doing quite a bit (posting reads, encouraging conversation, giving reasons for all my votes) but that's not even what I meant. I just meant that I've said and done a large enough volume of stuff in this game that if I were scum you'd probably be able to find better evidence of it than whatever Andrew is using that he still hasn't explained.

ppe: speak of the devil

But you aren't scum right? So it should come as no surprise to you that this is the first piece of evidence found. (Cue caught for the wrong reasons.)

Can you unpack that a little? I just woke up and am still working on my coffee.

But no, I am not scum, and for that reason there can in fact be no evidence.

[SpaceAnemone]

I don't get the argument? Wouldn't a partner of Calamatis' be careful not to say something like that?

levels and levels

Space is smart and concious enough to make this post being Calamitas' partner

Hey, you (and maybe faust, but definitely you!) should know me well enough to understand that me addressing a point or two to Calamitas about something setuppy when he and I are both clearly struggling to engage with the wild reads party of D1 is not unusual in the slightest. I think if I'd been part of a scum faction, the smart thing would have been to keep my inferences quiet.

This is real scummy.

Hmm. I assert that it isn't, because I'm not scum. Why do you think I'd be more inclined to say something like that as scum than as town, especially given the context in which I said it?

[2.71828.....]

[Case on Andrew]

I can sheep that.

Vote: Andrew

[2.71828.....]

I feel like Cuzz had come out of the gate here on d2 very towny.

[Cuzz]

I think if I'd been part of a scum faction, the smart thing would have been to keep my inferences quiet.

This is real scummy.

Hmm. I assert that it isn't, because I'm not scum. Why do you think I'd be more inclined to say something like that as scum than as town, especially given the context in which I said it?

I just think generally scum is more cognizant of and vocal about "what they'd do as scum."

[faust]

Also this is a bad vote and I'm not sure you've been paying attention to anything I've done all game if this is enough for you to vote for me.

What have you done this game that you think shows that you are town?

I think I've been doing quite a bit (posting reads, encouraging conversation, giving reasons for all my votes) but that's not even what I meant. I just meant that I've said and done a large enough volume of stuff in this game that if I were scum you'd probably be able to find better evidence of it than whatever Andrew is using that he still hasn't explained.

ppe: speak of the devil

But you aren't scum right? So it should come as no surprise to you that this is the first piece of evidence found. (Cue caught for the wrong reasons.)

Can you unpack that a little? I just woke up and am still working on my coffee.

But no, I am not scum, and for that reason there can in fact be no evidence.

Okay. My point here is as follows: You seem to imply that Andrew hasn't been paying attention, and that is why the only piece of evidence he has for you being scum is what he talked about there. But if you truly were town, then there would be no other evidence that he could have found had he been paying attention. The only way you could deduce from his vote that he has not paying attention is if you are scum, and know that there are other things out there you've done that are more scummy than this.

Thus, you are scum.

[faust]

I feel like Cuzz had come out of the gate here on d2 very towny.

Can you say why?

[mcmcsalot]

ugh reads are much harder for me today than yesterday. I was just writing a post about how space is more likely to talk about what they would do as scum when they actually are scum because it is relevant in their mind. However I totally am more likely to talk about what I would do as scum as town. As scum I argue why what I did is townie, as town I want to explain why I wouldn't do that as scum all the time.

Ppe 4: so cuzz said what I was gonna say but I can't because it's not true for me.

Also @spaceanemone I think my explaination of banter was quite acceptable for the context of a mafia game, I would appreciate if you tried not to get too RSP about terminology in thread.

[mcmcsalot]

I'll do some wagon analysis/vote breakdowns when I get time later if no one beats me to it. Gotta get some work done for now.

[Cuzz]

Okay. My point here is as follows: You seem to imply that Andrew hasn't been paying attention, and that is why the only piece of evidence he has for you being scum is what he talked about there. But if you truly were town, then there would be no other evidence that he could have found had he been paying attention. The only way you could deduce from his vote that he has not paying attention is if you are scum, and know that there are other things out there you've done that are more scummy than this.

Thus, you are scum.

I am town. A proof by contrapositive thus shows there is some logical flaw in that paragraph that I'll hunt for properly sometime later.

[Eevee]

I'm not a fan of the way Eevee abandoned the J Reggie wagon. Scum would definitely want the Reggie wagon to die after the claim.

hey I said this first

So it would have been townier to keep voting for the town player?

[faust]

I'm not a fan of the way Eevee abandoned the J Reggie wagon. Scum would definitely want the Reggie wagon to die after the claim.

hey I said this first

So it would have been townier to keep voting for the town player?

Yes.

[LaLight]

I'm not a fan of the way Eevee abandoned the J Reggie wagon. Scum would definitely want the Reggie wagon to die after the claim.

hey I said this first

So it would have been townier to keep voting for the town player?

The question is: did you know he's town back there?

[faust]

Okay. My point here is as follows: You seem to imply that Andrew hasn't been paying attention, and that is why the only piece of evidence he has for you being scum is what he talked about there. But if you truly were town, then there would be no other evidence that he could have found had he been paying attention. The only way you could deduce from his vote that he has not paying attention is if you are scum, and know that there are other things out there you've done that are more scummy than this.

Thus, you are scum.

I am town. A proof by contrapositive thus shows there is some logical flaw in that paragraph that I'll hunt for properly sometime later.

Or maybe we have just shown our system of axioms to be inconsistent.

[Cuzz]

Okay. My point here is as follows: You seem to imply that Andrew hasn't been paying attention, and that is why the only piece of evidence he has for you being scum is what he talked about there. But if you truly were town, then there would be no other evidence that he could have found had he been paying attention. The only way you could deduce from his vote that he has not paying attention is if you are scum, and know that there are other things out there you've done that are more scummy than this.

Thus, you are scum.

I am town. A proof by contrapositive thus shows there is some logical flaw in that paragraph that I'll hunt for properly sometime later.

Oh I think we're just using "evidence" inconsistently:

i. Stuff used to justify one's perception that someone is scum.

ii. Stuff that actually implies that someone is scum.

By definition i, for example, we could say that people presented evidence of their cases on JReggie yesterday, but by definition ii this would not make sense since he was town. I think faust is only using ii and I think I've been inconsistently switching between them.

[O]

Banter was a word -- i'd go so far as to say a common one -- before toxic little jackasses in League of Legends or bigoted Brits approppriated the term. I'd say I first started commonly using both the term and the practice with my grandmother while playing Mahjong or Scrabble, when I was about 9. We are not all British and frankly many of us don't care to adhere to British customs or culture. That's all I'll say on that subject.

I'm not convinced that any of Faust's questions here are "productive" unless we have a strong desire to create circles. I'm not convinced Faust isn't trying to do that, though.

I'm very self conscious of how much I've basically been OMGUSing for Cuzz but I continue to not see much there, evidence wise or vague reads wise.

Unfortunately I think lurking has increased, not decreased, so far, even disregarding V/LA like Galzria.

I'm personally unwilling to lynch O, Cuzz, Awaclus..., TWM today. I can't think of anyone else at the moment that hasn't been scummy at least a few times or is a hard lurker.

I'm not a fan of the way Eevee abandoned the J Reggie wagon. Scum would definitely want the Reggie wagon to die after the claim.

hey I said this first

So it would have been townier to keep voting for the town player?

Yes.

What about my refusal to Vote after saying I would in that instance?