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Mafia XXII: Bankers Beware
First, a little theme music: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaHMYPPOgG8
And now, empty out your wallets and open up your checking accounts, because you are headed for the Bank of Robz!
The cool thing about this game is that each night phase will take place in a world map, RPG-style dungeon of sorts. At game start, each player will only be able to see a small part of the map, but as you explore, more will be revealed to you. Your location is very important--it effects who you can target, who can target you, etc. But most importantly, it effects which powers you can access.
In this game, all players will either be Scum-aligned Mountebanks, or Town-aligned Coppersmiths (and it will be full random). No town player will have abilities beyond any other at game start. There is no player who is "the Cop" or "the Doctor," for instance.
Various rooms of the world map (henceforth, "the Bank") contain shops ("Vaults" for flavor purposes) where players can purchase night powers. The available powers in the starting rooms are of course very weak, but eventually you may gain access to rooms designed for wealthier patrons, with better powers. You may even chance upon some secret rooms, where strange and unusual powers await.
Powers (henceforth, "items") can be purchased with coins. Coins can be earned through a variety of ways, though they may not be apparent at game start.
That's all you need to know for now. Let me stress that though this sounds a bit wild, the core gameplay will still be traditional mafia-style. If you played my previous game, Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade, you know what you're in for. Just like that game, this one WILL BE BALANCED.
Player List:
1. Jimm
2. raerae -- Lynched Day 6
3. yuma -- Killed Night 4
4. ashersky -- Lynched Day 5
5. Insomniac -- Killed Night 5
6. Eevee -- Vengekilled Day 6
7. Jorbles
8. liopoil -- Killed Night 2
9. Archetype (replaced sparky5856) -- Lynched Day 4
10. mcmcsalot -- Killed Night 3
11. sudgy -- Vengekilled Day 6
12. xeiron -- Killed Night 1
13. Lekkit -- Lynched Day 3
14. Ozle -- Modkilled Night 4
15. Kooshie -- Lynched Day 1
16. mail-mi -- Lynched Day 2
FAQ #1
Only two types of PMs were sent out. Here they are:
Role PM for Coppersmiths
Thanks for opening up an account with the Bank of Robz! I see that you are a Town-Aligned Coppersmith. You win when all Mafia-aligned players are under arrest or dead.
Each night, you will be able to move throughout the various rooms of the Bank, purchasing items from various vaults. You begin the game with $3.
You can’t see the whole Bank, nor will you know where the other players are, though certain items may change this. Accordingly, you get a link to a map of the Bank that only you can see. Here it is:
As you discover new rooms, I will update your map. As you can see, any room adjacent to a room you have visited shows up on the map. You can’t see what’s in the room, though, until you’ve visited it at least once.
Please confirm via PM.
Role PM for Mountebanks
Thanks for opening up an account with the Bank of Robz! I see that you are a Mafia-aligned Mountebank. How terrifying! You win when your faction constitutes at least half the remaining players, you brute.
You may communicate with your partners in your qt right now and during all night phases. Here is your qt: REDACTED
Each night, you will be able to move throughout the various rooms of the Bank, purchasing items from various vaults. You begin the game with $3.
You can’t see the whole Bank, nor will you know where the other players are (except for your partners), though certain items may change this. Accordingly, you get a link to a map of the Bank that only you and your partners can see. Here it is: REDACTED
As you discover new rooms, I will update your map. As you can see, any room adjacent to a room you have visited shows up on the map. You can’t see what’s in the room, though, until you’ve visited it at least once.
At the end of the night phase, one of you or your partners may perform the factional kill. If your kill succeeds, the player you chose will be “captured” and taken to whichever of the 2 Captured Players Vaults you choose to lock him up in. You will also have access to both of those qts, but don't post in them! Living players may gain access to those qts at some point, and you wouldn't want to give yourself away by gloating over the captured players.
Here are those qts:
REDACTED
One of you or your partners may also perform a special move, Pillage. During the end of the night phase, you may name a player. You will steal half that player’s coins. If you are in the same room as that player, you will steal all his coins. Any scum can perform this move, including the scum who is performing the factional kill.
Please confirm via PM or in the Scum QT.
FAQ #2
Hopefully this goes without saying, but absolutely NO sharing qts, moderator-supplied information, links to spreadsheet maps, etc., with other players anywhere. Even if you're out of the game! Because "dead" players will still be part of the game, and may end up communicating with still-active players. So no bending the rules, even if you're strictly out of the game.
FAQ #3
Remember that some players may have access to much less--or much more--information than you. This may make their lies seem more credible or their truths less credible. Or vice versa. Be on your guard.
FAQ #4
You will earn $$$ for doing various things. You have no idea what earns you $$$, and you will never know. When I tell you how much money you have, it might be much more--or much less--than you expected.
FAQ #5
Movement! You can only enter rooms that border your room with an arrow. Some rooms are adjacent, but don't actually connect. Here's how much it costs to enter a room:
Cost to move to a Copper Room, Hallway, and all other rooms
$1
Cost to enter a Silver Room
$2
$1, if Silver Key purchased by your faction
$1 after Night 2
Cost to enter a Gold Room
$5
$2, if Gold Key purchased by your faction
$2 after Night 3
Cost to enter a Platinum Room
$9
$3 if Platinum Key purchased by your faction
$3 after Night 5
Basically, unless the room is special, it costs $1 to move to it. When you've been to a room, you can see everything in it (but not everyone). I'll update your maps accordingly. I'm not going to put the description of items on the map, because they don't fit, but PM me and I'll tell you if I forget.
Moves happen at once. So, everybody moves to one new room at once. Then everybody who wants to move again, that all happens at once. This means the item you want might be bought by the time you get to the room. If two players try to buy an item at the same time, we will head to auction.
You can make as many moves per night as you want, as long as you have the cash. You can only make 1 purchase, though, unless you have extra buys.
FAQ #6
Here is the Order of Operations
Role PMs are sent
Night 0 begins
Players submit moves
Coin update
Day 1 begins
Lynch
Coin update
Night 1 begins
Players submit moves
Players submit orders
All orders resolve
Coin update
Day 2 begins
Lynch
Coin update
Night 2 begins
Basically, we are having a night start, but nobody will be able to use regular items* or perform actions (that's what "orders" are). So no one will die here.
*Some items can be used at times other than the action resolution stage.
FAQ #7
Rooms are color coded.
Orange-ish/tan = Copper Room
Really light blue = Silver Room
Bright yellow = Gold Room
White = Platinum Room
Grey = Hallway
Red = Captured (Killed by Scum) Players Vault
Faint Red = Jail for Arrested (Lynched or Killed by Town) Players
Dark Blue = Poorhouse
Faint Green = Garden
Neon Green = Unknown
Bright Pink = Uknown
Silver Rooms offer better items than Copper Rooms, Gold Rooms offer even better items, and Platinum Rooms even better items than that. The other rooms may have items, trigger events, or do nothing.
FAQ #8
More on movement: Everybody does one thing at a time. So you can all tell me a million things that you want to do, but they happen one at a time. Let's say, Ozle says "I want to buy X, and then move to the west." What happens? Ozle buys X, ashersky does Y, Eevee buys Z, etc., etc. Then, when all that has transpired, Ozle moves to the west, assuming he has enough money to do so. And everybody else does their one thing.
FAQ #9
You always (well, almost always) get to know what an item does before you buy it. If you're in a room with an item and you don't know what it does, I may have just forgotten to tell you. PM me!
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Mafia Ruleset
Game Rules:
General Gameplay and Etiquette:
1. You may not quote private Moderator-supplied information (either real or fabricated) of any kind, UNLESS GIVEN MOD PERMISSION. Paraphrasing (for role claims, etc.) is acceptable.
2. There is to be NO personal communication outside of the forum postings unless your role PM specifically allows it. Mafia members may communicate at night and during the confirmation stage.
3. If you have a role with a Night action your choices are due to me by the posted deadline (generally 48 hours from Night start). If I do not receive your choice via PM by the posted deadline you will forfeit your actions. In case of multiple submissions, the last valid one before the deadline will be used.
4. Roles with Night actions will not be able to submit an action on Night 0 (i.e. during the confirmation stage).
5. Any player with a Night action may instead submit a “No Action” PM to let the Mod know that you do not want to perform your expected action that Night phase.
6. As a general rule you should aim for one post every 48 hours, minimum, to keep the game moving. Players who do not post every 48 hours will be issued at most 2 warnings. Any player who has previously been warned twice is subject to modkill per another player's request. Please inform us that you will be V/LA if you cannot post every 48 hours.
Voting, Deadlines, and Player Death:
1. A simple majority (rounded up) of all living members must agree on one person for a lynch to occur prior to deadline.
2. Once you have reached a simple majority no further unvoting will change someone’s fate. Further votes will also be ignored.
3. Once a player is lynched the game enters twilight until I post a death scene; all players including the one who was lynched may continue to post during twilight.
4. Please submit votes as: Vote: PlayerName. Votes will NOT be counted if they are not bold or do not follow this syntax! Obvious abbreviations or nicknames will be counted so long as they are unambiguous.
5. Please submit vote revocations as either Unvote: PlayerName or Unvote. Unvotes are not necessary before changing votes.
6. You may Vote: No Lynch - a simple majority of these vote types are required to send the game to Night phase without a lynch.
7. This game will generally have 2 week deadlines. We will use bankable deadlines. Stay tuned for more info. If a player or No Lynch does not have a simple majority at deadline, no lynch will occur, and the game will go into night.
8. Once you are killed (either via lynch or night kill) you may no longer post. This means that you do not even get a “Bah” post. The dead in this game are silent.
9. Do not edit or delete posts. We don't want some players having more information than others. If you want to clarify posts, feel free to double post.
Miscellaneous/Mechanics:
1. Bold, blue text is reserved for the Mod. No invisible/small text is allowed, nor is cryptography.
2. If you have an issue/problem with the game, please PM the Mod privately. Do not post issues/complaints in the game thread.
3. The Mod may make mistakes - please point out any mistakes gently. Mistakes will be corrected where possible, but sometimes mistakes are made that cannot be reversed. These will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. Please bold all requests to the Mod so that they don’t get missed.
5. Rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, up to and including a Modkill.
6. If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period please post a notice to that effect in the thread. Treat this game as a commitment. Be considerate – don’t leave us hanging.
The Golden Rule:
Please remember that this is a game and your main objective is to have fun! Be considerate of each other, don’t get personal, and enjoy the game.
Helpful Links:
- Main Wiki Page (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page)
- Newbie Guide (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Newbie_Guide)
- Frequently Asked Questions (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=FAQ)
- Commonly Used Abbreviations (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Commonly_used_abbreviations)
- Mafia Theory (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Theory)
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/follow at least, maybe /in
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tentative /in. Want to reserve a spot if I end up having time to play.
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/in
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/in
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Available to sub.
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will not miss this game /in
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Yep!
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This game sounds weird. I'm in, but if I end up in three games at once I will be lurky in all of them.
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This game sounds weird. I'm in, but if I end up in three games at once I will be lurky in all of them.
Unless it's full... is it full?
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Will follow, maybe.
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/in!
are the scum plain goons, or do they start with their power, or do they, like town, get powers in the same way with coins?
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/in!
are the scum plain goons, or do they start with their power, or do they, like town, get powers in the same way with coins?
They may start with some powers, and will also be able to purchase powers.
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....and town probably start with a power too, like the power to move between rooms or something.
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So tempted...
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Maybe this is the game I need to get my mafia back on track, so I'll /in
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how do you not auto in me to your game, rude.
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I know I've said I'll only be in one game at once, but this one sounds interesting... I'll guess I'll be in.
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I know I've said I'll only be in one game at once, but this one sounds interesting... I'll guess I'll be in.
It always starts this way, be warned you will never come up with a good reason not to /in
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I've said I'll only ever be in two games at once... I hope I can stay to that :P
I'm going to have a hard time ever voting sudgy this game because of last game...
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I've said I'll only ever be in two games at once... I hope I can stay to that :P
I'm going to have a hard time ever voting sudgy this game because of last game...
Man, so many time I've wanted to upvote a post but then forget that it's in the forum games thread...
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Can I backup mod? this would be my first time, and I would like to learn how to mod a game.
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Can I backup mod? this would be my first time, and I would like to learn how to mod a game.
This is probably the wrong game for that, given its complexity and special rules. I'd suggest a normal game first. You can back-up mod MXIV when it starts, for sure.
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Can I backup mod? this would be my first time, and I would like to learn how to mod a game.
This is probably the wrong game for that, given its complexity and special rules. I'd suggest a normal game first. You can back-up mod MXIV when it starts, for sure.
Okay thanks! I'm already in two games, so I'm not gonna /in this one.
P.S. if you think that in counted, /out
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When is this going to start? I'm going to be v/la from the 1-3 of March, so I was hoping it will start after that...
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When is this going to start? I'm going to be v/la from the 1-3 of March, so I was hoping it will start after that...
It will, in all likelihood, start after that.
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3. yuma (maybe)
goodness this is filling up fast.
Change this to a solid yes. But I am finishing up school soon and will hopefully be starting a job in the next month so my schedule is potentially going to change rather drastically, probably toward the side of having less time. If so I probably won't be able to join other games after this one... which I guess is ok.
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Very interested in following. I got no time for the fooling and/or sleuthing so I can't play. But I might make occasional votecounts, if allowed to.
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Definately interested in playing this, but I know from experience that I can't really do two games at a time. If a sub is needed, I could possibly make it.
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/in
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/in
welcome to fds mafia! We are always excited to have new players! I see that you are from Norway? Hope you enjoy the game, Robz always puts on a good show.
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welcome to fds mafia! We are always excited to have new players!
Thanks. As you say I am new to forum mafia, but have played mafia some times in real life.
I do as well hope I enjoy the game ;)
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/tag
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that's 13. When does this plan on starting/how many players does it want?
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that's 13. When does this plan on starting/how many players does it want?
Including a "tentative" and a "tempted." I would like a few more. This will start when the number of players is satisfactory. So, soon, but not too soon.
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Pretty much out, nothing is more annoying than people who sign up to games and then hardly post, which is what id be doing here.
Happy to help out behind the scenes if needed though
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I'm going to /out too. Trying to limit myself to one game at a time, which is usually RMM.
Still looking forward to spectating!
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I'm in!
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I'm in!
Do I get to be really excited because you are who I think you are?
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I'm in!
Do I get to be really excited because you are who I think you are?
Is he Pat?
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I'm in!
Do I get to be really excited because you are who I think you are?
Is he Pat?
Who's Pat?
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I'm in!
Do I get to be really excited because you are who I think you are?
Is he Pat?
Who's Pat?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lit1cSptJw&feature=youtube_gdata_player
?
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It could be Ray....
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I'm in!
Do I get to be really excited because you are who I think you are?
He is who you think he is.
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I'm in!
Do I get to be really excited because you are who I think you are?
He is who you think he is.
:)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Had the name simply been pat I honestly think I wouldn't have guessed it.
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I'm in!
Do I get to be really excited because you are who I think you are?
He is who you think he is.
:)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Had the name simply been pat I honestly think I wouldn't have guessed it.
Okay, now I'm really confused... what?
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They know each other. Mcmcsalot is my brother. Pat is a very close friend of ours, and my college roommate.
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question: is there conf. only one scumteam, or is it possible that there are two or more groups of scum-aligned mountebanks? what about a SK? and would the scum know about the existance about other teams or anything? how would a mountebank show up upon death? (would we be able to differenciate from the different teams when they die)
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They know each other. Mcmcsalot is my brother. Pat is a very close friend of ours, and my college roommate.
Did you guys convince him to join?
If he found this by coincidence, that would be really weird. :P
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question: is there conf. only one scumteam, or is it possible that there are two or more groups of scum-aligned mountebanks? what about a SK? and would the scum know about the existance about other teams or anything? how would a mountebank show up upon death? (would we be able to differenciate from the different teams when they die)
There will only be one scum team. No serial killer.
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Hmm, tempted to /in as long as people realise I wont be around 9-5, plus, I cant resist the lure of a seeming treasure hunt!
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You should /in! My modding philosophy is play serious, but have fun. I don't expect anybody to make this game their job or something.
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Hmm, tempted to /in as long as people realise I wont be around 9-5, plus, I cant resist the lure of a seeming treasure hunt!
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Ha! Yeah, I'm basically counting it as an /in anyway.
By the way, anyone who plans on spectating should really just play. The spectator thread for this game will be uncommonly empty.
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"The spectator thread for this game will be uncommonly empty."
Hmm see, this just makes me want to spectate....
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Ha! Yeah, I'm basically counting it as an /in anyway.
By the way, anyone who plans on spectating should really just play. The spectator thread for this game will be uncommonly empty.
Why will the spectator thread be empty? :( Could I backup mod, or something, instead?
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Haha yeah id rather be mod helper, but I dont think Robz will letz me!
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I don't expect anybody to make this game their job or something.
But what will the other players expect of me??
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I don't expect anybody to make this game their job or something.
But what will the other players expect of me??
No player is allowed to expect this to be anything other than good fun.
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Ha! Yeah, I'm basically counting it as an /in anyway.
By the way, anyone who plans on spectating should really just play. The spectator thread for this game will be uncommonly empty.
Why will the spectator thread be empty? :( Could I backup mod, or something, instead?
No. You should just play.
Dead players will still have a formal role in the game. They will not get the spec qt.
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Ha! Yeah, I'm basically counting it as an /in anyway.
By the way, anyone who plans on spectating should really just play. The spectator thread for this game will be uncommonly empty.
Why will the spectator thread be empty? :( Could I backup mod, or something, instead?
No. You should just play.
Dead players will still have a formal role in the game. They will not get the spec qt.
Ooh, like the sound of that.
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-sigh-
/in
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So we're full? How long until we start? When LoTR hits night?
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Since Monks and Masons have ended, I would be interested in playing this game. If there are any spots left.
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We are not full. There are still a few spots left.
I anticipate that this game will begin... soon.
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Since Monks and Masons have ended, I would be interested in playing this game. If there are any spots left.
Yes. You are in.
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16 people, oh hip hip hurraimgoingtobeconfisedanduselesstilldaysixy
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Is this the point where I demand my PM or not?
Its been a while...
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I'm counting you as /in, then!
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Spectators don't get a PM?
How very......normal
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Okay, we currently have 15 people willing to open up checking accounts at the Bank of Robz. I want 16 at least. I think 16 would be a good number. I will however take more (not many more, but a few more) if there is interest. But either way, we need one more definite yes.
Kooshie? Raerae? Vets? Let the theme music put you in the mood: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaHMYPPOgG8
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Dead players will still have a formal role in the game.
Okay, we currently have 15 people. I want 16 at least.
double /in! you can start now :D
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Okay, we currently have 15 people willing to open up checking accounts at the Bank of Robz. I want 16 at least. I think 16 would be a good number. I will however take more (not many more, but a few more) if there is interest. But either way, we need one more definite yes.
Kooshie? Raerae? Vets? Let the theme music put you in the mood: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaHMYPPOgG8
Actually, I will join! That music does wonders! /in
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MY EARS MY EARS TURN IT OFF!!!!
Oh wait, no, quite like it
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Okay, we currently have 15 people willing to open up checking accounts at the Bank of Robz. I want 16 at least. I think 16 would be a good number. I will however take more (not many more, but a few more) if there is interest. But either way, we need one more definite yes.
Kooshie? Raerae? Vets? Let the theme music put you in the mood: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaHMYPPOgG8
I'm super awful at big games. Consider me for a sub like 2 or 3 days in ;)
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Okay, we currently have 15 people willing to open up checking accounts at the Bank of Robz. I want 16 at least. I think 16 would be a good number. I will however take more (not many more, but a few more) if there is interest. But either way, we need one more definite yes.
Kooshie? Raerae? Vets? Let the theme music put you in the mood: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaHMYPPOgG8
Actually, I will join! That music does wonders! /in
I knew that would do it!
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(http://askmarcbarrett.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/star-trek-make-it-so.jpg)
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1. Jimm
2. patpatppat
3. yuma
4. ashersky
5. Insomniac
6. Eevee
7. Jorbles
8. liopoil
9. sparky5856
10. Morgrim7
11. mcmcsalot
12. sudgy
13. xeiron
14. Lekkit
15. Ozle
16. Kooshie
Wow... lots of new people I haven't played with and people I have a really had time reading. This should be crazy.
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is one of them me?
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Also, im always scum, so odds are im not this game. Play the percentages people!
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SIGNUPS WILL CLOSE TOMORROW AT 3:00 PM Forum Time. PMs will go out shortly thereafter. The game begins on Wednesday.
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I just died in my other game, so /in it is!
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Excellent, you're in.
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awesome!!
is it confirmed that there is only two possible role PMs? town coppersmith and scum mountebank? because you said no town as abilities above another townie... maybe scum have different roles.
really interested to see the money and room mechanic...
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I just died in my other game, so /in it is!
LOTR?
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awesome!!
is it confirmed that there is only two possible role PMs? town coppersmith and scum mountebank? because you said no town as abilities above another townie... maybe scum have different roles.
really interested to see the money and room mechanic...
Yes. Everyone is either a Town Coppersmith or a Scum Mountebank.
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Excellent, you're in.
Well, gee thanks. I don't think its so great that i died. ;)
I just died in my other game, so /in it is!
LOTR?
No, BMX
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I'm super awful at big games. Consider me for a sub like 2 or 3 days in ;)
Hey hey hey,
16 people, oh hip hip hurraimgoingtobeconfisedanduselesstilldaysixy
I believe I already have dibs on the this game is to big for me don't lynch me because my reads are awful and wrong excuse.
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I'm super awful at big games. Consider me for a sub like 2 or 3 days in ;)
Hey hey hey,
16 people, oh hip hip hurraimgoingtobeconfisedanduselesstilldaysixy
I believe I already have dibs on the this game is to big for me don't lynch me because my reads are awful and wrong excuse.
I suppose you do need somebody to keep an eye on you...
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I'm super awful at big games. Consider me for a sub like 2 or 3 days in ;)
Hey hey hey,
16 people, oh hip hip hurraimgoingtobeconfisedanduselesstilldaysixy
I believe I already have dibs on the this game is to big for me don't lynch me because my reads are awful and wrong excuse.
I suppose you do need somebody to keep an eye on you...
You! PLAY WITH US! (Maybe not, I don't care. Do what you want.)
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I'm super awful at big games. Consider me for a sub like 2 or 3 days in ;)
Hey hey hey,
16 people, oh hip hip hurraimgoingtobeconfisedanduselesstilldaysixy
I believe I already have dibs on the this game is to big for me don't lynch me because my reads are awful and wrong excuse.
I suppose you do need somebody to keep an eye on you...
You! PLAY WITH US! (Maybe not, I don't care. Do what you want.)
Almost felt the love for a minute. Then the disinterest overwhelmed me.
No, seriously, I'm up for subbing but I'm going to stop taking up room pre-game.
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im gonna have to /out, too many people for me
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Rolled 1d16 : 15, total 15
I am going to head North, first chance I get it seems...
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SIGNUPS ARE NOW CLOSED. EXPECT PMS soon. THIS THREAD IS LOCKED.
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PMs are sent; please confirm via PM.
We are thus entering Night 0. Scum may communicate in their QT. All players may contemplate, and even submit, moves.
Thread still locked.
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You all have questions, as I expect. I am answering them as fast as I can.
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I'm continuously updating the opening post with new info that explains what's going on. Please read it! A lot of you have asked the same questions, and I will have answers in the opening thread.
(Although answering the same questions over and over again is certainly helping me keep everything straight, so I don't mind it whatsoever.)
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If you have any questions beyond what's answered in the elaborate FAQ in the opening post, please PM me!
Otherwise, get your first moves in soon! I can't resolve any moves until everyone has sent me at least one move. Please do that soon. There's a lot to decide, so I'm not going to operate off of strict night deadlines unless it becomes absolutely necessary.
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Please get your first move/buy in soon! I've processed most of them. If I already processed your move/buy and you would like to make another one, please tell me what you are doing!
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All first moves have been processed. If you would like to make another move, you have 24 hours to do so!
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Good morning, and welcome to the Bank of Robz! First, some theme music: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5iSWG8RHAs
Oh, it will be a day of bustling activity, I'm sure. While you're out and about, please keep a lookout for those horrible Mountebanks! I hear there are four of them. I'm sure deducing their identities and throwing them in jail will be perfectly easy for seasoned pros like you.
You may even earn a little coin for your good deeds. Oh, the avarice!
DAY 1 START. THREAD UNLOCKED.
Vote Count 1-1
Not Voting (16) -- jimm, patpatppat, yuma, ashersky, Insomniac, Eevee, Jorbles, liopoil, sparky5856, mcmcsalot, sudgy, xeiron, Lekkit, Ozle, Kooshie, mail-mi
With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.
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Wooo, money money money!
(http://voice.instructure.com/Portals/166399/images/scrooge-mcduck-make-it-rain.jpeg)
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You scrooge Ozle! Vote: Ozle
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Ozle is in the room with all the money already? Tell me where you are!
#doesntexpectaseriousresponce
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You scrooge Ozle! Vote: Ozle
Got to be a bit stingy! We gotta get out of this place alive you know! With all these Muntjacks around!
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Ozle is in the room with all the money already? Tell me where you are!
#doesntexpectaseriousresponce
No, lets get serious!
Im am...over there!
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Wow, so informative! I'll try my best to get over there!
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Wow, so informative! I'll try my best to get over there!
Stop!
your going the wrong way!
That way is certain dooooom
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Wow, so informative! I'll try my best to get over there!
Stop!
your going the wrong way!
That way is certain dooooom
Hehe, sucker. Hey, keep talking so i can follow your voice!
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How could you hate Scrooge!?
Vote: mail-mi
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Robz Voting Stage! Vote: Ro- oh wait, he isn't playing... Vote: Jorbles for getting mad at an opinion.
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Wow, so informative! I'll try my best to get over there!
Stop!
your going the wrong way!
That way is certain dooooom
Hehe, sucker. Hey, keep talking so i can follow your voice!
Hmm, why would you need to follow my voice?
The only people I can see that would have a need for that is scum!
Vote: Mail-ni
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Robz Voting Stage! Vote: Ro- oh wait, he isn't playing... Vote: Jorbles for getting mad at an opinion.
Vote: sudgy for having an opinion!
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oooh, gamestart! :D will be back to post stuff in a bit, but for now:
Vote: Ozle for putting a second vote on mail-mi, a real wagon! O.o
(yes, I know I am putting a second vote on ozle. Go ahead, vote me for being a hypocrite.)
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Right, its late here, lets go to bed.
Obviously a figure of speech, not an open invitation!
Im going to restrict my postings to work lunchtimes and after work if I can help it, so see you then!
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Robz Voting Stage! Vote: Ro- oh wait, he isn't playing... Vote: Jorbles for getting mad at an opinion.
Let's vote Robz anyway! Vote: Robz888
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oooh, gamestart! :D will be back to post stuff in a bit, but for now:
Vote: Ozle for putting a second vote on mail-mi, a real wagon! O.o
(yes, I know I am putting a second vote on ozle. Go ahead, vote me for being a hypocrite.)
Okay! Vote: Liopoil for being a hypocrite
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oooh, gamestart! :D will be back to post stuff in a bit, but for now:
Vote: Ozle for putting a second vote on mail-mi, a real wagon! O.o
(yes, I know I am putting a second vote on ozle. Go ahead, vote me for being a hypocrite.)
Okay! Vote: Liopoil for being a hypocrite
Kooshie, I've played everyone of my games with you! Thats.... kinda weird.
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I don't recognize half of you people!
VOTE: Everyone new.
I sure am a welcoming fellow.
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I don't recognize half of you people!
VOTE: Everyone new.
I sure am a welcoming fellow.
Get rid of him before he kills us all! Vote: Sparky
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You may even earn a little coin for your good deeds. Oh, the avarice!
anyone who votes scum gets coins? maybe just people on his wagon if scum is lynched? or maybe even just the hammerer? well, I'm going to test if the first one, by voting each one of you in this post, and hoping I might get coins for it:
Vote: Jimmmmm Vote: patpatppat Vote: yuma Vote: ashersky Vote: insomniac Vote: eevee Vote: Jorbles Vote: sparky5856 Vote: mcmcsalot Vote: sudgy Vote: xeiron Vote: lekkit Vote: ozle Vote: kooshie Vote: mail-mi
And now to Vote: Jimmmmm for being the first one on the player list.
though, I doubt robz would let us get coins this way, otherwise I could vote everyone over and over again and get a bajillion coins.
hmmmmm, 4 scum, makes sense.
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"This game will generally have 2 week deadlines. We will use bankable deadlines. Stay tuned for more info" --from the OP
so how are the deadlines working?
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Do we get all coins earned at the end of the day, or as the day goes on?
Really not much to do with the money during the day itself.
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Do we get all coins earned at the end of the day, or as the day goes on?
Really not much to do with the money during the day itself.
I think he said that we don't even know how much money we have until the end of the day, so it doesn't matter.
Anyway, Vote: liopoil for being a hypocrite. And mail-mi, all my games I've been in/I'm in were with you...
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Ha, bankable. I get it.
Bankable deadlines mean that we start with a specific amount of time Day 1, and the amount of time we get in subsequent days depends on how much time we've spent in previous days; if we spent more, we'll get less on later days. Essentially, eating the clock buys us less time to decide on who to lynch for the future.
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I'm thinking we should map-claim. here's why:
-as of now, scum have a lot of info about the map, as they can all see each other.
-there are more town than scum, so while the map-claiming helps both factions, it helps town more
-allows for smarter night moves, because we know what rooms don't have anything good in them.
-We can safely save up money because "oh hey, there's a gold room a nearby, I won't waste my money on this!"
-town can avoid both trying to buy the same thing, causing an auction which results in a waste of money.
cons:
-scum have a better chance of pillaging someone who has a lot of money, or is in the same room as scum.
-scum have a better idea who has the best roles, and so make better kills
the second one is a real problem, so I'm suggesting not revealing exact location of ourself, or things purchased (or lack of things purchased). The main things we should claim are where good rooms are, and maybe what items are in places.
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Ha, bankable. I get it.
Bankable deadlines mean that we start with a specific amount of time Day 1, and the amount of time we get in subsequent days depends on how much time we've spent in previous days; if we spent more, we'll get less on later days. Essentially, eating the clock buys us less time to decide on who to lynch for the future.
That's the theory. Don't know how well its worked in other games to get D1s to end at a reasonable time.
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I understand what bankable deadlines are. it just sounded like it would be a twist between bankable and set deadlines, so I'm wonderin the specifics.
you vote me for being a hypocrite, yet now there are two votes on me as well...
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So, what I want to know is, would scum try to do something crazy as in liopoil's 121 (lol) or would they try to follow the crowd and/or hide? I've rarely seen the former.
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hide of course! there's tons of awesome places to hide in a huge bank! nobody would ever find me if I just sat in a copper room forever, and so would win!
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I'm thinking we should map-claim. here's why:
-as of now, scum have a lot of info about the map, as they can all see each other.
-there are more town than scum, so while the map-claiming helps both factions, it helps town more
-allows for smarter night moves, because we know what rooms don't have anything good in them.
-We can safely save up money because "oh hey, there's a gold room a nearby, I won't waste my money on this!"
-town can avoid both trying to buy the same thing, causing an auction which results in a waste of money.
cons:
-scum have a better chance of pillaging someone who has a lot of money, or is in the same room as scum.
-scum have a better idea who has the best roles, and so make better kills
the second one is a real problem, so I'm suggesting not revealing exact location of ourself, or things purchased (or lack of things purchased). The main things we should claim are where good rooms are, and maybe what items are in places.
Another con (that I think is an even bigger problem) is that they will know where a lot of things are.
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Deadlines!
Each game day will last at least 3 "real" days. Beyond that, you will begin eating up your 40 day deadline. 40 days will begin ticking away at 7:00 PM on Sunday.
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well yes, but so will we, and the point is that it helps us more than scum. it also helps us catch up/negate their already huge advantage of having four eyes on the map. if they spread themselves out, which they probably will, they will be able to see a ton of the map already.
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Vote Count 1.2
mail-mi (1) -- Ozle
sudgy (1) -- Jorbles
liopoil (2) -- Kooshie, sudgy
sparky5856 (1) -- mail-mi
Jimm (1) -- liopoil
Not Voting (16) -- jimm, patpatppat, yuma, ashersky, Insomniac, Eevee, sparky5856, mcmcsalot, xeiron, Lekkit
With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.
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hide of course! there's tons of awesome places to hide in a huge bank! nobody would ever find me if I just sat in a copper room forever, and so would win!
I was talking more in terms of mafia play, but that's an interesting tactic. It does mean that you would miss out on the greater powers in other rooms.
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okay, so my suggestion for today:
-mapclaim, or at least partially claim.
-set soft deadline
-scumhunt
-near soft deadline lynch. I'd suggest we lynch someone very scummy (duh). If there aren't any good cases, then lynch a lurker. If there aren't any big lurkers, I think we should random lynch, using the fancy new dice system. A random lynch can often be better than a normal lynch D1 because in such a big game it is easy for the scum to redirect attention elsewhere, with especially when there are three other people who will back them up if needed. We could weight the dice if there are people we find particularly towny, or slightly more scummy than others.
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hide of course! there's tons of awesome places to hide in a huge bank! nobody would ever find me if I just sat in a copper room forever, and so would win!
I was talking more in terms of mafia play, but that's an interesting tactic. It does mean that you would miss out on the greater powers in other rooms.
it's a terrible tactic! I don't think there is anything to gain by hiding in a room... when you have lots to gain by exploring!
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I was gonna say. I didn't think so either. Really, you want the powers.
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Roll one we lynch liopoil.
Rolled 1d2 : 2, total 2
Well, the dice dont lie. Vote: Liopoil
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HA! not today you don't...
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Roll one we lynch liopoil. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/Themes/core/images/dice_warn.gif) This dice roll may have been tampered with!
Rolled 1d2 : 2, total 2
Well, the dice dont lie. Vote: Liopoil
Wait a second! I said roll 1d1! THIS IS MADNESS!!!!
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Well, I guess that means I'll have to unvote.
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woah, woah there. and people said I was a hypocrite! here's mail-mi saying the dice don't lie and then voting me even though the dice proved my innocence! obvscum.
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it doesn't let you role one sided dice. it will default to d2.
what do people think about claiming map info?
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Fine. If this isnt one, we vote liopoil.
Rolled 1d1000 : 699, total 699
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Well then, vote liopoil is what we have to do. The dice dont lie (most of the time ;))
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I object to unfair persecution. It is too late, the dice already cleared me.
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Rolled 1d1000 : 283, total 283
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also, note that I proposed random lynch as a last result if we get to our soft-deadline with no lurkers or scummy people... not as something to do before each player has even posted...
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Normally you aren't allowed to do anything veritably random in these.
So anyways the one thing that is interesting about the setup is we could disclose how much we explored. At first I thought this favoured mafia as it would let them know who has the most money/power role. BUT the better power roles are found by exploring so it could save our weak PRs at the cost of ones that could be stronger later. I don't know, food for thought.
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I think it does help mafia in this way, but remember that they can only kill one person a night, and it is likely that we will all eventually get some powers. And we could get around this by not saying what we bought, just what we see. This still helps them with pillage, and they can guess, "oh, if they've been to the gold room I bet they bought something good, let's kill them", but it isn't nearly as strong.
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I think it does help mafia in this way, but remember that they can only kill one person a night, and it is likely that we will all eventually get some powers. And we could get around this by not saying what we bought, just what we see. This still helps them with pillage, and they can guess, "oh, if they've been to the gold room I bet they bought something good, let's kill them", but it isn't nearly as strong.
vote: liopoil
How do you know how many deaths can be caused? I'm guessing there are vig-style cards available for purchase, so there's no guarantee on one death. Scum slip.
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okay, what? I said THEY can only kill on person a night. they means scum, as was clear in my post. there is only one scumteam, as confirmed by mod. I don't know about vig powers, but I wouldn't if I was scum either would I? I was reffering to the fact that the mafia can only kill one potential person with a PR a night, and there is likely to be many people with PRs.
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honestly, read the post again, there is certainly no scumslip of any kind.
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honestly, read the post again, there is certainly no scumslip of any kind.
Defensiveness. Scum tell.
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ummm, everyone defends themself when accused... especially when they think it is a somewhat ridiculous accusation. I think you're just trying to see how I react to this...
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ummm, everyone defends themself when accused... especially when they think it is a somewhat ridiculous accusation. I think you're just trying to see how I react to this...
I think so too. A little bit of FoS to ashersky (but I know it could be trying to see how he would respond).
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ummm, everyone defends themself when accused... especially when they think it is a somewhat ridiculous accusation. I think you're just trying to see how I react to this...
I think so too. A little bit of FoS to ashersky (but I know it could be trying to see how he would respond).
Buddying. Eevee tell.
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eevee tell?
ash is definatly looking for reactions from people...
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ummm, everyone defends themself when accused... especially when they think it is a somewhat ridiculous accusation. I think you're just trying to see how I react to this...
I think so too. A little bit of FoS to ashersky (but I know it could be trying to see how he would respond).
Buddying. Eevee tell.
And this is my reaction: +1
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Vote: Captain_Frisk
If he was in this game, he'd definitely be scum.
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Oh hey looks like we've started.
Vote: ash for trying to act too scummy to be scum.
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Oh hey looks like we've started.
Vote: ash for trying to act too scummy to be scum.
vote: Jimmmmm
Faking that you didn't know the game started. Scum tell.
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honestly, read the post again, there is certainly no scumslip of any kind.
Defensiveness. Scum tell.
ummm, everyone defends themself when accused... especially when they think it is a somewhat ridiculous accusation. I think you're just trying to see how I react to this...
But its a scummy defense. I think my votes already on liopoil.
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woah! that's omgus right? I think it's total possibility that Jimmmmmm didn't know yet. game only started a few hours ago.
there is something in this post that is a scum tell to ashersky, I'm sure of it.
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Oh hey looks like we've started.
Vote: ash for trying to act too scummy to be scum.
vote: Jimmmmm
Faking that you didn't know the game started. Scum tell.
Yeah you got me... wait no I mean, I was in class 3 hours ago when the game started and just got home.
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pregame post count:
Jimmmmm- 3
patpatppat-1
yuma-4
ashersky-2
insomniac-1
eevee-1
jorbles-2
liopoil-7
sparky5856-1
mcmcsalot-6
sudgy -6
xeiron-2
lekkit-2
ozle-14
kooshie-4
mail-mi-4
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I think it does help mafia in this way, but remember that they can only kill one person a night, and it is likely that we will all eventually get some powers. And we could get around this by not saying what we bought, just what we see. This still helps them with pillage, and they can guess, "oh, if they've been to the gold room I bet they bought something good, let's kill them", but it isn't nearly as strong.
vote: liopoil
How do you know how many deaths can be caused? I'm guessing there are vig-style cards available for purchase, so there's no guarantee on one death. Scum slip.
Role PM of the Mountebanks is public knowledge; only one faction kill. And it's clear form the context of his post that vig-style cards weren't being considered. I doubt any are gonna be available this early in the game either.
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I think the map-claim idea is possibly decent. Obviously not claiming what items we have available, but perhaps if we each gave a description of what we can see. Anyone have any reasons why this would be a bad idea?
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I thought of something!
anyone who ever purchases a key should immediately claim that they did so. They can then become an IC by someone entering a room of that type at a discounted price, and it doesn't help scum at all to claim this. actually, they don't quite become IC, because both the claimed key purchaser and the claimed room enterer could be scum, but they could both be outed by a townie not getting the discounted price. the info that player X bought a key hardly helps scum at all.
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I think it does help mafia in this way, but remember that they can only kill one person a night, and it is likely that we will all eventually get some powers. And we could get around this by not saying what we bought, just what we see. This still helps them with pillage, and they can guess, "oh, if they've been to the gold room I bet they bought something good, let's kill them", but it isn't nearly as strong.
vote: liopoil
How do you know how many deaths can be caused? I'm guessing there are vig-style cards available for purchase, so there's no guarantee on one death. Scum slip.
Role PM of the Mountebanks is public knowledge; only one faction kill. And it's clear form the context of his post that vig-style cards weren't being considered. I doubt any are gonna be available this early in the game either.
vote: sparky
Referring to the OP. Scum tell.
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Unvote. I guess the first player on the playlist is town SOMETIMES.
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I think it does help mafia in this way, but remember that they can only kill one person a night, and it is likely that we will all eventually get some powers. And we could get around this by not saying what we bought, just what we see. This still helps them with pillage, and they can guess, "oh, if they've been to the gold room I bet they bought something good, let's kill them", but it isn't nearly as strong.
vote: liopoil
How do you know how many deaths can be caused? I'm guessing there are vig-style cards available for purchase, so there's no guarantee on one death. Scum slip.
Role PM of the Mountebanks is public knowledge; only one faction kill. And it's clear form the context of his post that vig-style cards weren't being considered. I doubt any are gonna be available this early in the game either.
Oh. Forgot that. Unvote
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@mail-mi, I believe I made that exact same defence earlier, yet you called that defense scummy.
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@mail-mi, I believe I made that exact same defence earlier, yet you called that defense scummy.
honestly, read the post again, there is certainly no scumslip of any kind.
This is the scummy defense. You didnt say
Oh. Forgot that. Unvote
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That's not my defense. my defense was in the post before that, where I say essentially the same thing as what sparky just said. that's just me saying that his point had no real weight to it. why din't you unvote then?
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Hmm of course if we map-claim it helps scum do their pillaging so maybe not.
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I support semi-map claim, I have a scum read on mail-mi and a town read on ash.
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What's your definition of a semi-map claim?
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Semi-map claim does help with scum pilllaging, but I think it's a small price to pay. we aren't going to give away exactly location I think...
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I will say this: I'm in the room with the gold key. It costs $6. Unfortunately, I have no money.
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Theres a silver room kinda close to me, but thats all I got.
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That's not my defense. my defense was in the post before that, where I say essentially the same thing as what sparky just said. that's just me saying that his point had no real weight to it. why din't you unvote then?
Cuz i thought the one that i quoted was your defense. And im already unvoted.
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If you guys want the gold key, give me all your money.
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It is not possible to transfer money from one player to another. We aren't that kind of Bank!
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It is not possible to transfer money from one player to another. We aren't that kind of Bank!
I was more saying if you can somehow give me money in any way, do it.
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If you guys want the gold key, give me all your money.
does the gold key work for all of us or just the one who gets it?
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If you guys want the gold key, give me all your money.
does the gold key work for all of us or just the one who gets it?
I think he said the whole faction gets it. So if I get it, all the town gets it.
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If you guys want the gold key, give me all your money.
does the gold key work for all of us or just the one who gets it?
I think he said the whole faction gets it. So if I get it, all the town gets it.
...unless ur scum.
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vote: liopoil
he suggests lynching someone that is scummy (ie, not pro-town) as he proposes something that he esteems to be pro-town, all the while knowing that fds meta establishes people who come up with these crazy ideas as always town.
he then suggests if that doesn't work, that we lynch someone who is lurking as he continues to post far more than he has in any other game i have seen.
Maybe this is a situation where I am concentrating on the player who is most active... but at this point, and it is very early in the game, I think lio is my biggest scum read at this juncture in that he is trying to come out and establish himself as town with high post counts and a "pro-town" plan.
PS: I am against any sort of mass claim. It is bad. Always bad until like day4 when it can be organized by someone with implicit town trust. Anytime I have ever entertained the idea was 1. for flavor purposes in Ozle's game--where I think it turned out to be bad--or 2. I was scum.
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ie: you will get absolutely nothing from me regarding the map. Nothing
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What I don't get is practically every game I've been in since Waffle Mafia the phrase "massclaim" has come up within the first few pages.
I too am on the fence about revealing my location, particularly because of the fact that I don't want unintended consequences.
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It seemed like a decent idea until I realised what pillage did, now I think it's a terrible idea.
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What I don't get is practically every game I've been in since Waffle Mafia the phrase "massclaim" has come up within the first few pages.
I too am on the fence about revealing my location, particularly because of the fact that I don't want unintended consequences.
exactly. not only do we risk dealing with the consequences that are "known" but we also end up dealing with the "unknowns." That is things that we can't predict happening, people turning on each other, for some crazy reason someone as town lying... the benefits we thought we come to town turning out to not be as great as we thought, etc etc etc...
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My definition is exactly what we are doing, I would like you to stay in that room and get the gold key. There are a multiple reasons for this I don't want to say more.
I know where the silver key is, am not going to get it until a later time, or if I have enough gold to do so.
What exactly does pillage do? I can read it myself but I don't remember seeing it.
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Stop saying stuff dammit!
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I see what pillage does, yuma I do not think this is terrible, sudgy is not to respond if he is indeed going to get the key, if he has gold to be pillaged, or where he in fact is. I believe there are multiple keys.
We can wifom scum as much as we can ourselves, no information that has been revealed has made anyone a "good" pillage target.
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I know, but it is a start. It is a slippery road once info starts getting out.
But whatever, if you guys want to talk, talk... Obviously I can't stop you and you probably will. But put me on the record of saying I think any talk is a bad idea and I am done talking about it.
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I know, but it is a start. It is a slippery road once info starts getting out.
But whatever, if you guys want to talk, talk... Obviously I can't stop you and you probably will. But put me on the record of saying I think any talk is a bad idea and I am done talking about it.
Dissmissive yuma is unlike the town yuma I know, scum read for you. Not because of your position but the way you said it.
Yuma and mail-mi are fine lynch targets for me today.
In fact, vote: Mail-mi he seemed to change the thing he was doing that made me find him scummy. Whether that is scum trying to reel in his scumminess or town becoming towny as the game goes on I have yet to tell. But for now I am happy with this.
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I know, but it is a start. It is a slippery road once info starts getting out.
But whatever, if you guys want to talk, talk... Obviously I can't stop you and you probably will. But put me on the record of saying I think any talk is a bad idea and I am done talking about it.
Dissmissive yuma is unlike the town yuma I know, scum read for you. Not because of your position but the way you said it.
Yuma and mail-mi are fine lynch targets for me today.
In fact, vote: Mail-mi he seemed to change the thing he was doing that made me find him scummy. Whether that is scum trying to reel in his scumminess or town becoming towny as the game goes on I have yet to tell. But for now I am happy with this.
when have you been town with me?
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sorry... that should be when have I been town with you?
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vote: liopoil
he suggests lynching someone that is scummy (ie, not pro-town) as he proposes something that he esteems to be pro-town, all the while knowing that fds meta establishes people who come up with these crazy ideas as always town.
he then suggests if that doesn't work, that we lynch someone who is lurking as he continues to post far more than he has in any other game i have seen.
Maybe this is a situation where I am concentrating on the player who is most active... but at this point, and it is very early in the game, I think lio is my biggest scum read at this juncture in that he is trying to come out and establish himself as town with high post counts and a "pro-town" plan.
PS: I am against any sort of mass claim. It is bad. Always bad until like day4 when it can be organized by someone with implicit town trust. Anytime I have ever entertained the idea was 1. for flavor purposes in Ozle's game--where I think it turned out to be bad--or 2. I was scum.
This, coming from the scum cop I would have outed via my plan in MnM. Scum tell. vote: yuma
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vote: liopoil
he suggests lynching someone that is scummy (ie, not pro-town) as he proposes something that he esteems to be pro-town, all the while knowing that fds meta establishes people who come up with these crazy ideas as always town.
he then suggests if that doesn't work, that we lynch someone who is lurking as he continues to post far more than he has in any other game i have seen.
Maybe this is a situation where I am concentrating on the player who is most active... but at this point, and it is very early in the game, I think lio is my biggest scum read at this juncture in that he is trying to come out and establish himself as town with high post counts and a "pro-town" plan.
PS: I am against any sort of mass claim. It is bad. Always bad until like day4 when it can be organized by someone with implicit town trust. Anytime I have ever entertained the idea was 1. for flavor purposes in Ozle's game--where I think it turned out to be bad--or 2. I was scum.
This, coming from the scum cop I would have outed via my plan in MnM. Scum tell. vote: yuma
coming from the scum cop who supported a plan originally to alleviate suspicion and then stopped supporting because yes it would have been bad for me specifically.
But this is a completely different situation... and we don't know how your plan would have turned out. I mean, it probably would have turned out better for town then the end result of that game... because mafia won. It can't get much worse for town as an end result. Ash.... You know that mass claiming is bad and has repercussions that can't be predicted down the road. You have seen it happen. We both have seen it happen.
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I will say this: I'm in the room with the gold key. It costs $6. Unfortunately, I have no money.
Sharing this much info this soon: bad move for town. Town tell.
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If you guys want the gold key, give me all your money.
does the gold key work for all of us or just the one who gets it?
I think he said the whole faction gets it. So if I get it, all the town gets it.
...unless ur scum.
"ur" instead of "you are" = scum tell.
vote: mail-mi
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all hail ashersky! The all knowing, omnipotent king of tells!
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all hail ashersky! The all knowing, omnipotent king of tells!
Sarcasm. Galz tell.
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Oh, bother. You all sure do enjoy voting for one another! Never fear, the bank of Robz provides excellent--and frequent--accounting.
How don't you have some criminals to apprehend. Go to it, chaps!
Vote Count 1.3
mail-mi (3) -- Ozle, mcmcsalot, ashersky
sudgy (1) -- Jorbles
liopoil (3) -- Kooshie, sudgy, yuma
ashersky (1) -- Jimm
Not Voting (8) -- patpatppat, Insomniac, Eevee, sparky5856, xeiron, Lekkit, liopoil, mail-mi
With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.
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If you guys want the gold key, give me all your money.
does the gold key work for all of us or just the one who gets it?
Just reasking my question. (2nd quote, btw)
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Oh, bother. You all sure do enjoy voting for one another! Never fear, the bank of Robz provides excellent--and frequent--accounting.
How don't you have some criminals to apprehend. Go to it, chaps!
Vote Count 1.3
mail-mi (3) -- Ozle, mcmcsalot, ashersky
sudgy (1) -- Jorbles
liopoil (3) -- Kooshie, sudgy, yuma
ashersky (1) -- Jimm
Not Voting (16) -- patpatppat, Insomniac, Eevee, sparky5856, xeiron, Lekkit, liopoil, mail-mi
With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.
I guess there's 8 invisible people not voting as well?
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Read the FAQ. It works for the whole faction.
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Oh, bother. You all sure do enjoy voting for one another! Never fear, the bank of Robz provides excellent--and frequent--accounting.
How don't you have some criminals to apprehend. Go to it, chaps!
Vote Count 1.3
mail-mi (3) -- Ozle, mcmcsalot, ashersky
sudgy (1) -- Jorbles
liopoil (3) -- Kooshie, sudgy, yuma
ashersky (1) -- Jimm
Not Voting (16) -- patpatppat, Insomniac, Eevee, sparky5856, xeiron, Lekkit, liopoil, mail-mi
With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.
I guess there's 8 invisible people not voting as well?
Fixed, thanks.
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Oh, bother. You all sure do enjoy voting for one another! Never fear, the bank of Robz provides excellent--and frequent--accounting.
How don't you have some criminals to apprehend. Go to it, chaps!
Vote Count 1.3
mail-mi (3) -- Ozle, mcmcsalot, ashersky
sudgy (1) -- Jorbles
liopoil (3) -- Kooshie, sudgy, yuma
ashersky (1) -- Jimm
Not Voting (8) -- patpatppat, Insomniac, Eevee, sparky5856, xeiron, Lekkit, liopoil, mail-mi
With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.
Yellow text = mod tell.
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Have we heard from pat, xeiron or that Insomniac guy yet?
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Have we heard from pat, xeiron or that Insomniac guy yet?
Insom posted once.
Asking about lurkers = null tell.
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Have we heard from pat, xeiron or that Insomniac guy yet?
Insom posted once.
Asking about lurkers = null tell.
Alright ashersky, I think you can stop now...
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Well, he sure is making it tough to read him, that's for sure. I think he intends to keep this up lol
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town read on yuma, as usual.
oppose the mail-mi lynch, dont see any basis for it.
liopoil obviously didnt scum slip at all, but the frustration in his rebuttal was interesting.
ashersky, hmm. nulltell imo, he is savvy enough to decide to appear overly scummy as scum and controversial enough to just decide to do it as town to amuse himself and to gauge reactions.
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town read on yuma, as usual.
oppose the mail-mi lynch, dont see any basis for it.
liopoil obviously didnt scum slip at all, but the frustration in his rebuttal was interesting.
ashersky, hmm. nulltell imo, he is savvy enough to decide to appear overly scummy as scum and controversial enough to just decide to do it as town to amuse himself and to gauge reactions.
Oh, there you are. Eevee = buddy tell.
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ashersky, why did you decide to approach this game like that?
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ashersky, why did you decide to approach this game like that?
My play = obv town tell.
Are we playing tha game where we ask questions of the person above us?
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My play = obv town tell.
Yeah, and I've said from the day I started playing Mafia that anyone who goes out of their way to make people think they're Towny are suspicious.
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My play = obv town tell.
Yeah, and I've said from the day I started playing Mafia that anyone who goes out of their way to make people think they're Towny are suspicious.
That capital T on towny? Was the start of a sentence you later edited into one. Thinking town is suspicious? Scum tell.
vote: Jimmmmm
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I always use a capital T for Town (faction)/Towny (adjective)/Townie (noun).
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Towncred is more important to scum than it is to Town, so doing something for the sake of Towncred is scummy.
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I always use a capital T for Town (faction)/Towny (adjective)/Townie (noun).
Making an easily verifiable statement that could be used to frame you as scum later if you don't do it? Town tell.
unvote
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I'm glad you think I'm towny!
/trolling
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ARGHHH, NO MAP CLAIMS!!
Are you guys Crazy!
Mafia can see the whole map it says, if they know roughly where we are, they can work out where the good items are, and get there first with enough money!
Mafia can coordinate moves in thier Night QT dont forget.
Plus they have a way of getting their own players more money via pillaging, which increases DRAMATICALLY if they know roughly where people are!
If they can get to the keys and buy them before us, they have a MASSiVE advantage!
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ARGHHH, NO MAP CLAIMS!!
Are you guys Crazy!
Mafia can see the whole map it says, if they know roughly where we are, they can work out where the good items are, and get there first with enough money!
Mafia can coordinate moves in thier Night QT dont forget.
Plus they have a way of getting their own players more money via pillaging, which increases DRAMATICALLY if they know roughly where people are!
If they can get to the keys and buy them before us, they have a MASSiVE advantage!
Boom. Town. Tell.
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I will say this: I'm in the room with the gold key. It costs $6. Unfortunately, I have no money.
GOLD!
See, this is the bad thing.
First off, , it does nothing to prove your faction alignment either way. But for the sake of hope, lets hope you are town
Town REALLY wants that key, getting cheap room access to the really good powers is going to majorly important.
The townie thing to do would be to stay there and save money till you could buy it for us.
Except now all 4 scum probably know where that room is, or will find it by the end of the night. And they will know who to pillage because they are saving money, and will get all your cash.
Now if we want you to get that gold key you would reasonable have to move to another room, save up and move back. Thats probably another Nights worth of cash.
If you had kept quiet and sat there, Town could have had a gold key in 2 nights possibly.
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I see you there xeiron!
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I see you there xeiron!
Just woke up.
I have read the thread, and yes, now I'm here.
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I see you there xeiron!
Just woke up.
I have read the thread, and yes, now I'm here.
Vote: xeiron.
Scumminess is a scumtell.
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Hi, guys. I'm not really here. Will be in a few hours when I get to work.
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My town read on as is completely gone. This is how ash gets to a post count double that of anyone near him and becomes very unlynchable. Eevee, why the town read on Yuma didn't you find his dissmissal interesting.
I will say this: I'm in the room with the gold key. It costs $6. Unfortunately, I have no money.
GOLD!
See, this is the bad thing.
First off, , it does nothing to prove your faction alignment either way. But for the sake of hope, lets hope you are town
Town REALLY wants that key, getting cheap room access to the really good powers is going to majorly important.
The townie thing to do would be to stay there and save money till you could buy it for us.
Except now all 4 scum probably know where that room is, or will find it by the end of the night. And they will know who to pillage because they are saving money, and will get all your cash.
Now if we want you to get that gold key you would reasonable have to move to another room, save up and move back. Thats probably another Nights worth of cash.
If you had kept quiet and sat there, Town could have had a gold key in 2 nights possibly.
Oh ozzle, how you just made this so mic worse, if you read my post I tryed very hard to make sure we did not know exactly what sudgy would do or if it would make him a good pillage target, he may get enough to buy the key in one night and pillaging him will be dumb, he may leave, he may not. There is a way to semi claim without screwing us, it is what we have been doing. Sudgy went a bit far saying all the info he did.
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Please, there are 4 scum out there. The thought that they would not come to this conclusion on their own when deciding who to pillage is very very low. And the chance it wouldn't come to that conclusion when the 4 of them were discussing in thier night QT is quite frankly laughable.
FOS on Mcmcmcsalot for trying to put a stop to warning Town people what not to do and trying to make scum sound like they wont talk or communicate.
I got my eye on you!
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Food for thought.
Ash, what he is doing is how he gets a post count that is double that of anyone else. However what he is doing is quite frustrating and likely to get a response out of people. Scum is very hard to catch when they are sitting at there computer making sure everything they type is towny. Frustrated posts however are often typed quickly and are a much easier place to catch scum.
If this was someone else, I would say town read however the post count inflating he has done really serves to make him a difficult lynch target which is something ash does not find a helpful quality in town.
Ppe: understood, I don't want people to make more posts revealing that much info. But you did nothing to help by pointing out exactly what was bad about sudgies post and how scum could benefit.
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Ppe: understood, I don't want people to make more posts revealing that much info. But you did nothing to help by pointing out exactly what was bad about sudgies post and how scum could benefit.
I did nothing to help by pointing out to EVERYONE what he did wrong?
Its highly likely one of the 12 town people would not realise it, while it is all but certain that Scum would recognise it.
Scum would already know how to benefit from it, so i have given no more info than what Scum already would have known in this regards, and also hopefully stopped other people from doing the same thing.
I dont see how you think pointing out to TOWN how SCUM could benefit from thier posts is a bad thing?
The only reason I could think of is you wanted town to make more posts like that....making you a Bad Man...ergo scum
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Ppe: understood, I don't want people to make more posts revealing that much info. But you did nothing to help by pointing out exactly what was bad about sudgies post and how scum could benefit.
I did nothing to help by pointing out to EVERYONE what he did wrong?
Its highly likely one of the 12 town people would not realise it, while it is all but certain that Scum would recognise it.
Scum would already know how to benefit from it, so i have given no more info than what Scum already would have known in this regards, and also hopefully stopped other people from doing the same thing.
I dont see how you think pointing out to TOWN how SCUM could benefit from thier posts is a bad thing?
The only reason I could think of is you wanted town to make more posts like that....making you a Bad Man...ergo scum
I just think you could have done it differently. I don't think scum may have come to that conclusion, and I still think nothing sudgy said defines him as a priority pillage target. In fact, I think we can trick scum just about as much as we can help them. We all started with three coins, some people may have spnt it all some may have not, sudgy said he had no money, this actually makes him a bad pillage target, someone who already bought something and has no money could come out and say hey guys I've got all my money and am saving to buy this cool item in my room. I think you give scum more credit than I do. Main point I do agree massclaim, and giving away damaging information(some of what sudgy said) is bad. I just trusted town to make logical decisions when revealing information.
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town read on yuma, as usual.
oppose the mail-mi lynch, dont see any basis for it.
liopoil obviously didnt scum slip at all, but the frustration in his rebuttal was interesting.
ashersky, hmm. nulltell imo, he is savvy enough to decide to appear overly scummy as scum and controversial enough to just decide to do it as town to amuse himself and to gauge reactions.
Why the town read on yuma, I think he has been less theory talkative and more concrete and harsh in his posts than usual. Actually thinking about previous posts yuma has made, this could just be frustration. Scum read redacted.
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I think thats towny. Yuma is capable of playing a refined and sneaky style that ~never gets lynched day 1. Doesnt look like he is afraid of making waves here. Its obviously not a strong read, especially in yuma's case, but its early day1, got to start somewhere.
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I'm not really liking asher's style of posting here. It seems as if I always find him scummy, but in this game he's done nothing but trying to prolong RVS and give himself a higher post count.
Actually, I am fine with a Vote: ashersky here.
Also, is there anyone we haven't yet heard from?
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Hmm, I also dont like the way Ashersky is just rating others, its a bit like he is setting himself up as the Leader of the pack and hoping he can drive things so others will follow his lead.
Not necessarily scummy though, however, is it a good thing to be doing, stating things are town as fact?
Ashersky is usually good on content.
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Just realised my RVS vote is still there, forgot to Take it Off.
Unvote
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Vote: Ashersky
Making sure you say something is an X-Tell in every post is not the way I've ever seen you play town.
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Have we heard from pat, xeiron or that Insomniac guy yet?
Insom posted once.
Asking about lurkers = null tell.
Alright ashersky, I think you can stop now...
I find asherky's new TellBot persona to be hilarious. I support it.
Still catching up on everything else, but I'm with yuma, I think claiming lots of info in a game where we don't have complete knowledge of how things work is incredibly risky. What we have already revealed can probably help scum, and if we continue to reveal more we'll keep helping them. We'll be helping them form claims, we'll be helping them pick kills, and we'll be helping them target their actions.
Though I think the money and items will keep the game interesting at night, I don't think they'll be what wins us the game. This is still mafia, we're going to win by lynching scum, the other stuff is a distraction.
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I'm going to Vote: ashersky because of the reasons people have stated. This is 50% RVS though.
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Why 50%?
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Have we heard from Patpatpatpatpatpat yet?
If not:
Vote: Patpatpat
This aint no time to be Hiding All Away!
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ashersky's style of play is annoying. But given we have tons of time still I'm not entirely convinced yet to start tossing votes out there.
yuma is very tough to read so I don't like forming an opinion on him less than one day into the game.
Haven't seen much from some people, Insomniac isn't saying much but is still making his opinion count by voting, which is under-the-radar, yellow flag for now. And a couple people still haven't posted at all.
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sparky, the thing with bankable deadlines is that suddenly they are all gone. Or you act like they will and try to be as active as possible and set up soft deadlines and whatnot. And then you find yourself in the last day of the game with 9001 days left to use.
Also, people are trying to get out of RVS. Someone trying to stay there is actually trying to hold the game back. If someone would SHD a wagon and then just say "carry on" after a day or two, people would raise their eyebrows. This is basically the same.
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sparky, the thing with bankable deadlines is that suddenly they are all gone. Or you act like they will and try to be as active as possible and set up soft deadlines and whatnot. And then you find yourself in the last day of the game with 9001 days left to use.
Also, people are trying to get out of RVS. Someone trying to stay there is actually trying to hold the game back. If someone would SHD a wagon and then just say "carry on" after a day or two, people would raise their eyebrows. This is basically the same.
SHD?
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Really ash? really? vote: ashersky
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sparky, the thing with bankable deadlines is that suddenly they are all gone. Or you act like they will and try to be as active as possible and set up soft deadlines and whatnot. And then you find yourself in the last day of the game with 9001 days left to use.
Also, people are trying to get out of RVS. Someone trying to stay there is actually trying to hold the game back. If someone would SHD a wagon and then just say "carry on" after a day or two, people would raise their eyebrows. This is basically the same.
SHD?
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5315.0
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We are 16 player right now.
As far as I understand, a odd number of living players is better for town.
Furthermore, chances that a cop will pop up will increase every night, so it appears to me that we want this game to carry on as many days as possible.
So isn't it best to no Lynch the first day?
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We are 16 player right now.
As far as I understand, a odd number of living players is better for town.
Furthermore, chances that a cop will pop up will increase every night, so it appears to me that we want this game to carry on as many days as possible.
So isn't it best to no Lynch the first day?
Its never better to no lynch. Ever.
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Its never better to no lynch. Ever.
Yes it is.
As explained in these links there are scenarioes where no lynch is optimal for town.
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Happily_ever_after
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=6420.0
I'm inclined to think this is such a situation, but I am not completly sure.
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We are 16 player right now.
As far as I understand, a odd number of living players is better for town.
Furthermore, chances that a cop will pop up will increase every night, so it appears to me that we want this game to carry on as many days as possible.
So isn't it best to no Lynch the first day?
Its never better to no lynch. Ever.
Welcome to the Ingrained F.DS mafia mindset Xeiron!
Dont also forget, claim to lynch all lurkers...but then never do it.
Looking town means you are scum
Town never lies...except when they do
Artificially get people to L-1 just so they claim
Is that all, I dont want to miss a thing as its quite important we always follow these imaginary rules!
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Its never better to no lynch. Ever.
Yes it is.
As explained in these links there are scenarioes where no lynch is optimal for town.
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Happily_ever_after
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=6420.0
I'm inclined to think this is such a situation, but I am not completly sure.
I disagree with the parity argument and Happily ever after is a scum win.
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I agree with the parity argument. And I think happily ever after is no one won.
But are we certain that we're always going to just have one kill each night? What if there's an item that can kill someone else? Maybe later we should think of the parity argument. I've actually never played in this big of a group of people before, so I'm not quite sure what we should do.
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I agree with the parity argument. And I think happily ever after is no one won.
But are we certain that we're always going to just have one kill each night? What if there's an item that can kill someone else? Maybe later we should think of the parity argument. I've actually never played in this big of a group of people before, so I'm not quite sure what we should do.
Well, we know there is only one group of scum. And 4 of them. Thats one kill a night. Theres no SK.
Now there's bound to be Vigilante 1 -shots out there somewhere, how could there not be. However, I'm better there are not many. Robz is a well known hater of Vigilante for town, at least at the early stages.
We dont really know whats out there exactly at the moment, and I think we should really save that sort of stuff for a later day when we have a better picture and decide Day by Day.
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I'm going to say stuff soon. Thursdays are very busy for me, so I'm just going to Unvote from RVS and catch up on everything.
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I'm going to say stuff soon. Thursdays are very busy for me, so I'm just going to Unvote from RVS and catch up on everything.
Can't wait! Let Us Know when it's time!
Haha, only joking, you can ignore a lot of the first few pages!
It would be interesting to know what time zone people are on actually, GMT here
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GMT+1 here.
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Uh, the one with New Jersey.
No lynch defeats the purpose of mafia. I won't consider it unless a scenario comes up where we can't decide on someone & wasting time.
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Can't remember the name, but the one on the pacific coast of the US. It's 1:45 PM here, so you can see how that works by comparing that to the time the forum says I post.
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Uh, the one with New Jersey.
No lynch defeats the purpose of mafia. I won't consider it unless a scenario comes up where we can't decide on someone & wasting time.
Pretty sure the purpose of Mafia is to win, and you do that by surviving the other team any way possible.
By not even considering it until theres that one scenario (and thats a bad one!) your closed mind will not help town int he long run! As now if a plausible No Lynch situation comes up Its so easy for you to fall back on , which hides potential scumminess.
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Mountain time here.
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Actually, I'm having a thought where if anyone acquires some sort of Vig power (NOT when they see one - when they acquire it), they claim that they do. (Unless there's an item that can steal other items.) In any case, the power can be better coordinated, between everyone. If a Vig was used and no one ever claimed, then scum got a hold of it and just remained silent. That means that one scum was recently in an expensive room. Now I can't lay out more specifics of this thought yet since we know so little about the items, this all depends on what items we encounter.
PPE: Lynching is in the spirit of mafia though! I've never tactically considered it. My scenario is a bad one, I was thinking more extreme. But I don't want to run into it.
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vote: mcmcsalot
That one is real.
Inflating my post count? Hilarious. Check the post counts of the games I've been in recently. I've been the top poster in three or four, without silly posting. So your accusation reeks of scum building a bad case on a good lynch.
Yes, I am a fine lynch for D1. We all are. I created a situation where it is easy to vote for me. Now, all of town has a number of interactions/opinions to look at when I flip town.
I guarantee scum is currently voting for me. Mcmc is scummiest, mail-mi's most recent vote is terrible. There have also been some towny reactions, too.
Also, I am the king of crazy claim ideas, and I think map claiming is bad on D1.
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I am fine with ash's playstyle so far. It has been helpful I think, at least got us talking about something.
I'm a bit less sure about map claiming now. I think there are some things that people should claim, but I'm not sure. Going to read the last few pages again then decide what I think we should do.
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Unvote.
The 50% of RVS was actually wanting to see ashersky's reaction. His reaction seemed towny enough to me.
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Vote Count 1.4
mail-mi (1) -- mcmcsalot
sudgy (1) -- Jorbles
liopoil (1) -- yuma
ashersky (3) -- Lekkit, Insomniac, mail-mi
xeiron (1) -- Jimm
Patpatppat (1) -- Ozle
mcmcsalot (1) -- ashersky
Not Voting (7) -- patpatppat, Eevee, sparky5856, xeiron, liopoil, Kooshie, sudgy
With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.
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Vote: Patpatppat hasn't posted at all. LALL
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vote: mcmcsalot
That one is real.
Inflating my post count? Hilarious. Check the post counts of the games I've been in recently. I've been the top poster in three or four, without silly posting. So your accusation reeks of scum building a bad case on a good lynch.
Yes, I am a fine lynch for D1. We all are. I created a situation where it is easy to vote for me. Now, all of town has a number of interactions/opinions to look at when I flip town.
I guarantee scum is currently voting for me. Mcmc is scummiest, mail-mi's most recent vote is terrible. There have also been some towny reactions, too.
Also, I am the king of crazy claim ideas, and I think map claiming is bad on D1.
Oh ash, your so good at reading me...defensiveness to the extent you have exerted is a scum tell. Also I meant that you are inflating your post count because you saw in previouse games that a high post count has spared you from the lynching block despite scum reads on you.
Oh and sorry if your plan of "create a situation where it is easy to vote for me(LOOK SCUMMY)" doesn't convince me scum has to be voting for you.
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Pacific time.
No lynch in this situation would give us a bit of extra time to explore, but as I said I think the night game is a bit of a distraction.
I don't really have reads on anyone yet. This game is big. Oh hey I voted in RVS. Unvote.
Hmmm. Ozle seems to be taking the game seriously, which is relatively towny I guess. ashersky's mucking about with his style of posting seemed useful to provoke some response, but I'm not sure I agree with his interpretation of his results, but I'm getting a town vibe from him. No scummy vibes yet, but I'll do a more serious reread probably near the end of the weekend.
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I don't really like Ash's playing. Yes, there are reasons for all his "tells" but they distract me from what ever else he posted, if anything else. It isn't scummy play, but please, Ashersky, do it a bit less.
I'm going to be gone for another 3 or so hours, proabably more. I will post a lot on the weekend to make up for this.
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I will say this: I'm in the room with the gold key. It costs $6. Unfortunately, I have no money.
Probably a bad claim. A townie shouldn't claim this, they should claim it AFTER they've bought the key. I'm fairly certain that anyone who buys a key should claim this the next day, because it can create ICs/catch scum easily, and gives town very helpful info that isn't worth much to scum.
Theres a silver room kinda close to me, but thats all I got.
Also worthless, because we don't know where mail-mi is. If he's town, all he did was tell scum that he has access to a silver room, and not much else, which helps them consider NKs
vote: liopoil
he suggests lynching someone that is scummy (ie, not pro-town) as he proposes something that he esteems to be pro-town, all the while knowing that fds meta establishes people who come up with these crazy ideas as always town.
he then suggests if that doesn't work, that we lynch someone who is lurking as he continues to post far more than he has in any other game i have seen.
Maybe this is a situation where I am concentrating on the player who is most active... but at this point, and it is very early in the game, I think lio is my biggest scum read at this juncture in that he is trying to come out and establish himself as town with high post counts and a "pro-town" plan.
PS: I am against any sort of mass claim. It is bad. Always bad until like day4 when it can be organized by someone with implicit town trust. Anytime I have ever entertained the idea was 1. for flavor purposes in Ozle's game--where I think it turned out to be bad--or 2. I was scum.
I am not trying to inflate my post count, I am trying to contribute as much as I can. Town wants to be as pro-town as possible, so of course I suggest a plan I think is pro-town. And yes, I don't want to be lynched, because being lynch is almost always bad for the lynched player, which you should know Yuma, being so against self-voting... and I really do think LALL is a very good idea in general D1. Not only are lurkers more often scum than non-lurkers (see-robz's last game), but lynching a town-lurker is better than lynching a town-not lurker. Similarly, it is better to lynch a lurker-scum than a non-lurker scum, because lurking scum are very hard to catch unless we lynch them for lurking. lynching for lurking happens less in later days because of better cases, and so it is best to lynch them early. It also saves lots of time (we have bankable deadlines), and is one of the better cases against a player D1.
note about pillage: I PMed robz some questions about how night actions are resolved, and from his response it seems that the following is true:
night has two phases. first there's all the moving and buying. after this has been resolved there's all of the night actions, including powers bought, pillage, and the scum NK. This means that even if scum knows a player's exact location, to be able to pillage them they need to A) guess correctly where they moved to, or way they stayed, or have an item which lets them see other players, and B) actually have a scum player in the same room as them. seems unlikely.
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I'm against a no lynch today.
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I lean towards thinking Ash is town. it was actually a fine town strategy, I like it.
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claiming:
I don't think a townie giving away their location is terrible, if they have useful info. This is because it is still unlikely that they will be successfully pillaged, as I showed a couple posts earlier. Also, if a townie who can see other people is pillaged for all their cash then they caught scum! It doesn't give scum info about what items a player might have, because if they've bought an item then it no longer shows up on the map. It would however give scum info about what they have if they bought it from a room that scum had already been to. claiming where items are does tell scum where the items are, so they can get there first potentially. however, there are more town than scum, so town has a better chance of getting there first. so here's where I stand on what to claim and what not to claim:
Do NOT claim:
-exact location
-bought items
-location of items that scum might purchase
-amount of money owned
Claim:
-key purchases
-location of items that only town would want (like doctor, or cop). to some extent also tracker/watch-like roles
-valuable investigative info (getting a scum result on a player)
-location of platinum, poorhouse, garden, or unknown rooms, unless you are in this room.
my reasoning behind claiming location of those types of rooms:
I think that public info of the location of ANY room is good for town, because there are more town than scum. However, the only way for the location of a room to become public info is for a player to reveal what area of the bank they are in. I think it is only worth it to do this for these types of rooms, because they are likely the best types of rooms.
Now that sudgy claimed what he did, we should make the most of it. We should decide if sudgy, if he has at least 6$ at the beginning of this night, should buy the gold key. I think that he should, and I remember mcmc also saying that he thinks sudgy should. If he doesn't have 6$ then I think he should probably leave the key behind. (it costs 2 after night 3 anyway, so buying it N2 would only help for one day.)
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Dude. Items only town would want like doc and cop? What are you saying?
Mafia want to take those roles out of our hands, at the very least.
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well, yes, they would. However, those roles are likely quite expensive. I think mafia would rather go find a roleblocking device or vig or something.
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well, yes, they would. However, those roles are likely quite expensive. I think mafia would rather go find a roleblocking device or vig or something.
If they buy the cop card, they don't need to worry about figuring out who has it to try to Roleblock.
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there's a good chance nobody will buy the cop card for another night or two if they just leave it there.
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I am very against claiming anything related to purchased items or location of items.
Keys and rooms up for debate.
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I am very against claiming anything related to purchased items or location of items.
Keys and rooms up for debate.
Like, if someone got a crap load of info last night, or something that helped the whole town, let us know. Otherwise, this is clearly a point in the game where we do not want to share details that only we know. Scum knows too much already.
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I lean towards thinking Ash is town. it was actually a fine town strategy, I like it.
Do you also garuntee scum in (lekkit, insom, mail-mi, sudgy)
@ashersky: just informing you incase you didn't realize I haven't voted for you. So either your vote on me is wrong or congrats you've narrowed down 50% of the scum team to a pool of 5 people.
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I am very against claiming anything related to purchased items or location of items.
Keys and rooms up for debate.
Like, if someone got a crap load of info last night, or something that helped the whole town, let us know. Otherwise, this is clearly a point in the game where we do not want to share details that only we know. Scum knows too much already.
I agree with this.
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claiming:
I don't think a townie giving away their location is terrible, if they have useful info. This is because it is still unlikely that they will be successfully pillaged, as I showed a couple posts earlier. Also, if a townie who can see other people is pillaged for all their cash then they caught scum! It doesn't give scum info about what items a player might have, because if they've bought an item then it no longer shows up on the map. It would however give scum info about what they have if they bought it from a room that scum had already been to. claiming where items are does tell scum where the items are, so they can get there first potentially. however, there are more town than scum, so town has a better chance of getting there first. so here's where I stand on what to claim and what not to claim:
Do NOT claim:
-exact location
-bought items
-location of items that scum might purchase
-amount of money owned
Claim:
-key purchases
-location of items that only town would want (like doctor, or cop). to some extent also tracker/watch-like roles
-valuable investigative info (getting a scum result on a player)
-location of platinum, poorhouse, garden, or unknown rooms, unless you are in this room.
my reasoning behind claiming location of those types of rooms:
I think that public info of the location of ANY room is good for town, because there are more town than scum. However, the only way for the location of a room to become public info is for a player to reveal what area of the bank they are in. I think it is only worth it to do this for these types of rooms, because they are likely the best types of rooms.
Now that sudgy claimed what he did, we should make the most of it. We should decide if sudgy, if he has at least 6$ at the beginning of this night, should buy the gold key. I think that he should, and I remember mcmc also saying that he thinks sudgy should. If he doesn't have 6$ then I think he should probably leave the key behind. (it costs 2 after night 3 anyway, so buying it N2 would only help for one day.)
regardless of whether or not I agree with any of the above you are missing the biggest point and that is not taking into account the unaccountable, the unknowables. So often when a mass claim of any type comes about something happens that is unpredictable--and generally that unpredictable part is bad, very bad. You are also going to far in assuming that the good things will actually be good and that the bad things won't be as bad.
Claim = bad.
But like I said before--and it has already been proven by your post--I can't control what town does in regard to claiming. You all will do what ever you want. But my opinion on the subject is to say absolutely nothing and you will get absolutely nothing from me.
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oh and I continue to vote: lio
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Pat needs to come here. Vote: patpatppat
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yuma, what do you think there might be that we don't know about? he posted the role PMs... and this is a normal game, so I doubt there will be any insane roles in the bank...
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I lean towards thinking Ash is town. it was actually a fine town strategy, I like it.
Do you also garuntee scum in (lekkit, insom, mail-mi, sudgy)
@ashersky: just informing you incase you didn't realize I haven't voted for you. So either your vote on me is wrong or congrats you've narrowed down 50% of the scum team to a pool of 5 people.
I voted you for the "he is inflating his post count" argument. I saw you hadn't voted.
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yuma, what do you think there might be that we don't know about? he posted the role PMs... and this is a normal game, so I doubt there will be any insane roles in the bank...
Are you still pushing for giving away info?
Stop Right Now.
thanks.
Dont give away anything until we need too. Especially not day 1! Lets get the lay of the land first
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yuma, what do you think there might be that we don't know about? he posted the role PMs... and this is a normal game, so I doubt there will be any insane roles in the bank...
I don't know! Did you catch the part where I said unknowable.
But for an example... town could lie. How many times has that happened in a mass claim. Now you say, well then town shouldn't lie. Yes, they shouldn't. But town does lie sometimes. I dont' know why, sometimes it is a good reason, sometimes it isn't... All I know is that you are putting forward this plan thinking that you know all of the intangibles. But in fact you don't, because you can't.
Even plans that seem to be straightforward... like ash's plan from XX could have unintended consequences down the road. And try as hard as you might to come up with all of those potentials you can't predict them all.
I guess this is my real beef with mass claims this early.
They are always an attempt to give town--or at least pretend that is the purpose--an advantage over scum. This implies that the setup is designed in a way in which mass claiming gain be benefcial to scum. But most mods--and in this case Robz--are very aware of this and take it into consideration when planning out a game. So either they prevent mass claiming in someway, limit it or create a setup that punishes mass claiming. I think it is very rare that mass claiming actually helps town this early, but every game some new genius thinks he found a way to gain that elusive advantage. This is another situation. You think it will help town. But I am willing to bet that it will actually hurt.
SO STOP!
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I can think of several ways scum could already have benefitted from the information given!
Ive already explained the most obvious one, im not doing anymore!
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I can think of several ways scum could already have benefitted from the information given!
Ive already explained the most obvious one, im not doing anymore!
Agreed.
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look, guys, did you read my most recent post on claiming? I mentioned several things that shouldn't be claimed, which includes the things mail-mi and sudgy claimed. I am not claiming anything today because I don't have anything I think is worth claiming. In fact, at this point very few people probably do have anything worse claiming. I am not suggesting everyone claim anything, I am saying that there are some things that some people might know that is probably worth claiming. and just because something can help town doesn't mean it can't help town more. I agree that the setup takes into account for massclaiming with things like pillage. Of the four things I think are worth claiming, I doubt anyone has made any key purchases, seen any PRs which town cares about more than scum, or has any investigative info.
well, when you said unknowable, that's a bit confusing because this setup is 100% open except for the map. so are you saying that there might be an item that changes everything?
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everything isn't knowable!!! this is one of the most unknowable games I have ever played!
Do you know what every role out there could do. I don't. Do you know what other players are going to do with the information? I don't. Do you know if it will benefit scum or town? I don't. You seem to think you know. but you don't.
I am done arguing do whatever you want. You obviously have thought this completely through and have information that I don't if you are so sure that this is the right path to go down.
Actually this reminds me of ash--who did have other information--in Ozle's game and was town. But in this setup one thing we do know is that town doesn't have any extra information to start with. I am highly, highly suspicious of you right now.
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Of the four things you have said people should claim, I can think of perfectly valid arguments why claiming is a bad idea!
Thats with knowing what is known in the set up and not taking into account Secrets!
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Sorry about my claim town. I now think that its a bad idea, and now will zip my lips :-X
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I lean towards thinking Ash is town. it was actually a fine town strategy, I like it.
Do you also garuntee scum in (lekkit, insom, mail-mi, sudgy)
What, no, of course not! How could I? I don't even think they are necesarily more likely to be scum than an average player, guaranteeing anything at this point is only possible if you are scum yourself or hacked robz's computer.
I'm against all massclaiming as well. Claim things if you think they will help, but please try to think it through before you do. This especially applies to you, Eevee.
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And sorry about my claim, I didn't think about how mafia might want to kill me with that.
Anyway, liopoil's actions do seem scummy... He, at first, could have been trying to massclaim so that he and his scumbuddies could do things at night. And he is being pretty defensive...
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There's a lot of times I have seen 'being defensive' is a scum tell.
I seriously hope not or pretty much all the players will be scum by the end of the game!
its the 'style' of the defence thats the tell!
easy mistake over the Key, just think carefully about what you are going to do tonight, as scum may find out exactly where you ended the night.
Right, im off for some Sweet Dreams!
Night Night
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Pat was online a couple hours ago. He already has some catching up to do, best not to end up like me in Star Trek Mafia.
In response to lio's #293... that's entirely the point of "unknowable" consequences. -_-
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guys, I was never trying to massclaim. I started with a more lienient claiming idea, but realized it was a bad idea and now think people should claim if they have specific types of info. Really, I don't think there is anyone who should claim anything today.
of course I don't have extra special info. But the only thing we don't know about the setup if the map and the items in it. I'm having trouble understanding how it is likely that those items could change the things that I think people should claim. I can't know if it helps town or scum more, because like you said, we don't know all the items in the map. I personally think that it is more likely that the things I suggested help town more than scum, and if I get such information I will claim it unless circumstances change.
@ozle: of course there's reasons not to claim each of those, but there are also reasons TO claim those. and about the items, it is equally possible that there are items that make it a better idea TO claim. It's a risk, and for those four things specifically, I think they are risks worth taking.
Jorbles is right though, I think it is going to be difficult to get powers, and so this is a bit of a distraction. I can't make any of you claim anything, and you guys can't make me NOT claim anything. So let's just leave it and go scumhunting.
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No time to catch up more. Only time to sleep. I'll post in the morning, and I'm on forum time.
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soft deadline? I'd suggest sooner rather than later because we'll need the time in later days.
assuming no extra-kills, doc saves, no kills or no lynches (a big assumption) the game lasts anywhere from 4-7 days. It's like a best-out-of-seven, with scum needing 4misslynches to win, and town 4 scumlynches to win.
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A soft deadline march 22. then.
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Still no pat?
Prod please.
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Okay. @Liopoil, can you explain with some hard logic why the items on your claim list are better for town than scum? I'm having a bit of a hard time processing it. Oh, and hmm, did you not want a massclaim? That is what that first post about claiming you had looked like...
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yes, I originally did think that there were a lot of things we should claim, which would be something like a massclaim. I have been dissuaded from that because those things probably help scum more than town. Now I just want us to claim a few specific things, most of which none of us know right now. Are you all caught up? I feel like this has been hashed out it quite a bit of detail and isn't worth pursing anymore, but if you want me to reiterate my reasoning then I will.
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yes, I originally did think that there were a lot of things we should claim, which would be something like a massclaim. I have been dissuaded from that because those things probably help scum more than town. Now I just want us to claim a few specific things, most of which none of us know right now. Are you all caught up? I feel like this has been hashed out it quite a bit of detail and isn't worth pursing anymore, but if you want me to reiterate my reasoning then I will.
Yes, I would like you to. I think I'm all caught up, but I'll reread a few things.
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yuma, what do you think there might be that we don't know about? he posted the role PMs... and this is a normal game, so I doubt there will be any insane roles in the bank...
You never know. I think that the only reason this isn't role madness is because you don't start with any. Can't role madness really have any sort of roles the mod wants?
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Let me stress that though this sounds a bit wild, the core gameplay will still be traditional mafia-style.
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my main point about the unknowns is that they are probably equally likely to make claiming some things a good idea and claiming some things a bad idea.
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Let me stress that though this sounds a bit wild, the core gameplay will still be traditional mafia-style.
I don't think that means that there won't be any crazy roles. It just means that there won't be any lying, probably no cult, and no completely unexplainable things.
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no, it means it will be traditional mafia-style. this means no crazy roles, because there are no crazy roles in normal mafia. I'm willing to bet that the only roles are things like cop, doc, tracker, roleblocker, vig, etc., and items give you a leg-up when it comes to the vault. It is the ones that help you with the vault that are the big unknown. It could be possible that there's an item that, gives you the alignment of a player in the same room as you at night, or something like that, which would make claiming location more interesting.
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-key purchases
-location of items that only town would want (like doctor, or cop). to some extent also tracker/watch-like roles
-valuable investigative info (getting a scum result on a player)
-location of platinum, poorhouse, garden, or unknown rooms, unless you are in this room.
So these are the four things I think should be claimed. Key purchases help town in these ways:
-town knows that they can enter a room for a cheaper cost
-if the claimer is scum and someone enters that type room at the normal price then scum is caught.
-if claimer is town and someone enters a room at the cheaper cost then the claimer is IC.
-unknown?
helps scum:
-knows town can enter those rooms for cheaper.
-knows player X bought key, and so likely doesn't have much else (at least at this early stage)
-unknown?
I don't THINK scum killing a player who bought a key takes away the bonus from the rest of the faction. this is from the OP, where it says "Cost to enter a gold room: 5$, 2$ if gold key purchase by your faction" which seems to suggest that it just matters that is has been purchased. I PMed robz to make sure.
I feel like here the things that help town outweigh the things that help scum, because making ICs and catching scum is very very powerful. Yes, it is possible that there is an unknown that makes it a bad idea, but I believe it is worth the risk.
I'm not so sure about the claiming locations of items that town would want more than scum anymore. This is because, if you know where such an item is, then you are likely very nearby and should just buy it yourself.
valuable investigative info: this one is obvious. If you got a cop item and found scum, of course you should claim that at some point in the day. Same is true for anything similar to that.
About claiming the location of rooms: this is probably only a good idea if you aren't going to be entering that room. In general, the location of a room being public info is good, because there are more town than scum, and so town will more likely be able to get there first. There is also a good chance that all four scum already know where the room is because if just one of them was adjacent to it then they all saw it. However, it isn't a good idea to say "hey guys, there's a silver room in the upper-left corner!" because that gives away that you are in the upper left corner. That's why I only think it is a good idea to claim where a room is if it is a very good room and one that you won't be buying anything from. This doesn't take into account the unknown items, but like I said, it is also possible that the unknown makes it an even better idea to claim some things.
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That was in response to kooshie btw. I know most of you have already heard all that.
Vote: xeiron. He says he's here and all caught up, but hasn't said much. He suggested no lynch, and suggested a soft deadline of March 22nd, but that's just about it. FOS kooshie too for the same reason, but I chose to vote xeiron instead of her because she said she will contribute today. And of course, still waiting for patpatppat to post.
oh, and soft deadline of the 22nd sounds good to me.
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Ok, fed up with this now.
You try to give people hints and they just wont listen. You have probably already damaged town a slight bit, do not compound the error
Vote: Lipoli
You're wrong. I know this, Yuma knows this.
You do not know what the effects of saying those things are, trying to convince other people when they should claim is bad.
People need to claim based on what they know, NOT based on your assumptions.
"It could be possible that there's an item that, gives you the alignment of a player in the same room as you at night, or something like that, which would make claiming location more interesting."
See, this is the sort of thing I am talking about. If there IS such an item, you have now alerted the Mafia to the possibility of such an item and they will be twice as careful if they think somebody might have one of these things and now have extra information to mislead people!
Town need to be smart, if they find a way to catch out a Mafia, do it. Until they know they are going to catch out a Mafia they should NOT talk about how they are going to catch out mafia.
Im not expanding any further examples, but please please please stop discussing items and keys and keep that info Close to You unless you can use that knowledge to catch scum with it today!!
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Look, I was ready to drop it. kooshie wanted to hear my reasoning, so I gave it to her. I know I'm not convincing anybody.
I understand that each case is unique, and people should make that decision for them self.
Ozle, mafia know that there could be all types of items, that wasn't any new info for them.
Vote me if you think I'm scum, not because you disagree with what I'm saying.
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The vote was to hammer home the point. I will absolutely put it back there if I think you are hurting town .
Unvote
Right, much as I hate to kill an Absolute Beginner on Day 1, I have always been in the actually lynch lurkers camp.
Vote: patpatpat
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Instead of voting for pat, should we just get a prod on pat
@liopoil, why FoS on me? I explained my absence. Thursdays are busy, and I had to leave earlier than I thought I would on Friday. After that I was tired, grumpy, and ready to sleep, not post about a bajillion things.
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Let's have a look at some numbers:
Assuming no power roles and random lynch
Town win chance right now: 07.4%
Win chance if we lynch correct: 14.0%
Win chance if we mislynch: 05.2%
Win chance if no lynch: 12.2%
Win chance if no lynch then mislynch: 09.1%
Win chance if no lynch then mislynch then mislynch: 05.8% (still more than if we mislynch today)
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Let's have a look at some numbers:
Assuming no power roles and random lynch
nice assumptions... too bad they don't work out here in the real world....
go ahead and vote no lynch. I won't be following you and I bet no one else will...
I suggest trying out some scum hunting rather than playing with numbers. But hey, maybe that is because I am not very good with numbers....
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Let's have a look at some numbers:
Assuming no power roles and random lynch
nice assumptions... too bad they don't work out here in the real world....
I know that the assumptions don't quite work out so the newt question is..
How will power roles alter these probabilities?
I think a cop favors the no-lynch(odd number) option as it means less chance of investigating town people.
A doctor favors lynching right from the start as a saved life then will bring us up to an odd number, "gaining us" the possibility to use another mislynch.
I am unsure about the Vigilate
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I think the answer is that we aren't going to no lynch. So... what is the point?
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Let's have a look at some numbers:
Assuming no power roles and random lynch
Town win chance right now: 07.4%
Win chance if we lynch correct: 14.0%
Win chance if we mislynch: 05.2%
Win chance if no lynch: 12.2%
Win chance if no lynch then mislynch: 09.1%
Win chance if no lynch then mislynch then mislynch: 05.8% (still more than if we mislynch today)
You took town deaths into account, right?
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I don't know why we shouldn't even consider nolynch... if it's good for town we should do it. But I'm not so sure that it is good for town. where do you get those numbers xeiron? I guess the whole idea is it doesn't lower our misslynch number...
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I don't know why we shouldn't even consider nolynch... if it's good for town we should do it. But I'm not so sure that it is good for town. where do you get those numbers xeiron? I guess the whole idea is it doesn't lower our misslynch number...
consider whatever you want. I am just saying that I am not for in--having played in a game that experienced a no lynch and it was an experience I never want to repeat--and that these discussions almost always end up the same.... we talk and talk about for ages and then don't do it. So I ask... why not just skip the talking about it and jump straight to no do it... since that is where we always end up.
And once again, this goes along with my feelings from before. Every game people feel--or at least want to show that they feel this way for town cred--that they can find some way to give town a leg up. Because w/o that leg up town will lose the game. So they look and look for some way to gain an advantage when in all honesty any advantage that we find will in all actuallity probably go to scum. I guess it frustrated me because it seems that people think that town can't w/o without these shenanigans. But town can win, just by playing well and lynching scum. I have full confidence in town and think these shenanigands are more of a distraction and do more harm then any good.
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You took town deaths into account, right?
Yes, of course
I don't know why we shouldn't even consider nolynch... if it's good for town we should do it. But I'm not so sure that it is good for town. where do you get those numbers xeiron? I guess the whole idea is it doesn't lower our misslynch number...
the formulae is
| 1 if m = 0
w(n,m) = | 0 if m >= n-m
| ((n - m )/n)*w(n-2, m) + (m/n)*w(n-2, m-1) elsewise
w = Town win probability
n = number of living players
m = number of living mafia
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You took town deaths into account, right?
Yes, of course
I meant nks... but you did.
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so no lynch MIGHT be good today, but it probably won't happen like yuma says, AND it is likely a better idea to wait until MYLO to no-lynch, because then town will have better powers. Xeiron, your numbers do show why it is good to no lynch, but they don't take into account the chance of town winning when they wait to no lynch.
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Another question regarding lynch ws no lynch
Who will benefit most from wandering around in the bank?
There are more town players and if only one of us acquire something that can point out mafia we are in business. I am also inclined to think that items i general is more useful for town than for mafia.
Mafia, on the other hand, have more information and pillage makes it easier for them to afford expensive stuff earlier.
I am not sure what weights most. Do anybody have any thoughts.
Now if town benfits most, that would push probabilities in a direction favoring a no lynch
If it is the mafia, we should go lynching right away hoping to get them before they grows too strong.
Anyways, I think I have convinced myself enough to vote: no lynch
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Vote: Kooshie. I would vote patpatppat, but the thing is that if he doesn't start posting, he'll likely be replaced. if he does start posting, then he wouldn't be lurking anymore would he? Xeiron is posting content now, and Kooshie said she was busy and everything before, which is fine, but now she says she is all caught up and all she did was ask me to restate my case.
I would guess that town benefits more from walking around the bank, but I can't be sure of that because I don't know everything in the bank. Later in the game we will be more likely to know if wandering around the bank is better for town or scum. I think that later in the game no lynch will become much more powerful, and so we should wait. For instance, if we don't no lynch, then eventually we will get to mylo (unless we win quickly, in which case no lynch doesn't really matter). At mylo no lynch will very likely be the right move, and it will be quite useful because at that point we hopefully have lots of powers and could catch scum in the night. If no lynch isn't the right move at mylo then it probably isn't the right move here. So for now I think we should lynch until we get to mylo, then consider no lynching. No point discussing it further now (unless xeiron might be able to talk us into it, which seems unlikely)
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Another question regarding lynch ws no lynch
Who will benefit most from wandering around in the bank?
There are more town players and if only one of us acquire something that can point out mafia we are in business. I am also inclined to think that items i general is more useful for town than for mafia.
Mafia, on the other hand, have more information and pillage makes it easier for them to afford expensive stuff earlier.
I am not sure what weights most. Do anybody have any thoughts.
Now if town benfits most, that would push probabilities in a direction favoring a no lynch
If it is the mafia, we should go lynching right away hoping to get them before they grows too strong.
Anyways, I think I have convinced myself enough to vote: no lynch
I don't think that town benefits more from waling around the bank because scum gets so much money from pillaging, and since they can see where there scum buddies are and can coordinate their moves, I think that the mafia get the better deal out of it.
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Vote: Kooshie. I would vote patpatppat, but the thing is that if he doesn't start posting, he'll likely be replaced. if he does start posting, then he wouldn't be lurking anymore would he? Xeiron is posting content now, and Kooshie said she was busy and everything before, which is fine, but now she says she is all caught up and all she did was ask me to restate my case.
I would guess that town benefits more from walking around the bank, but I can't be sure of that because I don't know everything in the bank. Later in the game we will be more likely to know if wandering around the bank is better for town or scum. I think that later in the game no lynch will become much more powerful, and so we should wait. For instance, if we don't no lynch, then eventually we will get to mylo (unless we win quickly, in which case no lynch doesn't really matter). At mylo no lynch will very likely be the right move, and it will be quite useful because at that point we hopefully have lots of powers and could catch scum in the night. If no lynch isn't the right move at mylo then it probably isn't the right move here. So for now I think we should lynch until we get to mylo, then consider no lynching. No point discussing it further now (unless xeiron might be able to talk us into it, which seems unlikely)
Yeah, I really didn't do much but ask you for some hard logic, but mostly because everything I would have said has been said already. If you want I'll go and post what I thought when I first read everything.
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Key claiming is redundant, since we will know its cheaper automatically when we enter a room. No reason to claim buying it unless you are trying not to get lynched.
Getting on a plane in 30 mins, so VLA for at least 10 hours.
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Not much to add right now, just got back from a tiring day at work.
If we don't have much to go for in terms of items right now, best thing to do is to just treat this like traditional mafia. Again, I still don't like claiming; yes unknown consequences could be good and not bad, yes we could take a risk. But all of this is unknown, and I don't feel like taking a risk.
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Let's have a look at some numbers:
Assuming no power roles and random lynch
Town win chance right now: 07.4%
Win chance if we lynch correct: 14.0%
Win chance if we mislynch: 05.2%
Win chance if no lynch: 12.2%
Win chance if no lynch then mislynch: 09.1%
Win chance if no lynch then mislynch then mislynch: 05.8% (still more than if we mislynch today)
wut
Scum's chances of winning all games is 92%?
...Okay, random lynch. But what does this tell us exactly? We never random lynch, ever.
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I am currently seeking a replacement for Patpatppat.
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Raerae has replaed patpatppat.
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Raerae has replaed patpatppat.
Sad that pats out, however...Raerae!!!!! Hello there, can't wait for your insight. Hopefully you do what I expect and ignore the ridicuous claim/non-claim arguments and start some good old fashion scum hunting. I suggest taking a look at yuma, kooshie, and mail-mi.
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Hi, kids! I'm getting caught up now. Anybody voting for me for lurking can unvote now. Thanks!
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Vote: raerae for lurking.
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Theory talk just kills my soul a little bit. Yuck.
I am not prepared to make a big old posty post about things thus far but lio is fo sho on my look at closely list. He seems to have ideas on ideas in his back pocket just ready to throw at town to see if we'll bite and, frankly, none of the ideas put town in a stellar position. I don't like it but this was just on a quick read.
I will not random lynch or no lynch. Will. Not. I don't play mafia to not scumhunt. I will put my vote on the person I find scummiest and that is exactly where I will leave it even if I'm the only one there.
I noticed there was a bit of conversation about a soft deadline...has that been set yet? Is that something we're seriously interested in? I support that idea.
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Vote: raerae for lurking.
Don't even tempt me, buddy!
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Raerae has replaed patpatppat.
Sad that pats out, however...Raerae!!!!! Hello there, can't wait for your insight. Hopefully you do what I expect and ignore the ridicuous claim/non-claim arguments and start some good old fashion scum hunting. I suggest taking a look at yuma, kooshie, and mail-mi.
Why these three?
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My patpatppat vote is all for naught, so I guess I'll unvote (if it was still on ash, well id still like to unvote)
@liopoil: why would a no lunch be good in mylo?
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If there is only one lynch left anyways, better do it with less people if possible.
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If there is only one lynch left anyways, better do it with less people if possible.
Is this words? I'm not drunk, it isn't late, and I still have no idea what that sentence means.
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haha, sorry.
4 players left, one scum to kill. if we lynch and miss, they nightkill someone for a win. in that situation its better to nolynch so that mafia is forced into killing one of the possible suspects.
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Okay thank you.
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Vote Count 1.5
mail-mi (1) -- mcmcsalot
liopoil (1) -- yuma
ashersky (2) -- Lekkit, Insomniac
raerae (3) -- Ozle, sudgy, Jimm
mcmcsalot (1) -- ashersky
No Lynch (1) -- xeiron
Kooshie (1) -- liopoil
Not Voting (6) -- raerae, Eevee, sparky5856, Kooshie, Jorbles, mail-mi
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Alright, Unvote.
Anyway, liopoil's posting habits seem to be a bit different than in MXXI, where he was scum... I'm not sure where he is.
And, I'm 97.28% certain that night is better for mafia than for us. Since in traditional mafia, day is the main time the town uses to win, it makes sense that mafia uses night to win. The same applies here. We should not vote no lynch because the night is better for us. We might still want to no lynch because of the parity argument, though. I'm not deciding on anything yet though.
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Right on time raerae!
Unvote
Comining in firing, thats what i like to see!
Its day 1 so i am happy with a sof deadline, although i cant see where in the opening posts it fully explains how many days we have
Who else is lurking?
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Has ashersky done much other than his Mr Roboto style scum/town tell style posting?
Still worried it was artificially inflating post count, but then i thunk he has contributed more than others.
Dont remember jimmm and jorbles much, hi you guys!
Anyone up for a post count?
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Hi! I'm behind in everything at the moment and will catch up when I can.
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Anyone up for a post count?
Liopoil: 47
Ashersky: 26
Ozle: 25
Mail-mi: 25
Sudgy: 18
Sparky5856: 17
Yuma: 16
Jimmmmm: 15
Mcmcsalot: 13
Kooshie: 13
Xeiron: 8
Eevee: 7
Lekkit: 6
Raerae: 5
Jorbles: 5
Insomniac: 4
I'm a bit surprised by this. I didn't think I had quite THAT many posts, and I thought I remembered some of the people on the lower side posting more. Raerae obviously gets a pass for now, and I think xeiron has been contributing, as well as Jimmmmm and Mcmc. So I think the people who could be considered as lurking are insom, jorbles, lekkit, eevee, kooshie.
I can see it now: "oh look, Liopoil made a post count to make himself look better and frame the people who aren't his teammates! Let's lynch him!"
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I can see it now: "oh look, Liopoil made a post count to make himself look better and frame the people who aren't his teammates! Let's lynch him!"
Thanks for post count. Although the persecution complex is a dangerous road to go down...pretty Bad that .
Vote: Insomniac
Lurkers need lynching
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vote: insom
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Raerae has replaed patpatppat.
Sad that pats out, however...Raerae!!!!! Hello there, can't wait for your insight. Hopefully you do what I expect and ignore the ridicuous claim/non-claim arguments and start some good old fashion scum hunting. I suggest taking a look at yuma, kooshie, and mail-mi.
Why these three?
Because yuma is different than I expected him to be so have other reads I respect on him would help, mail-mi and kooshie I find somewhat scummy and you played very closely with them as well as me so I was wondering if you agreed.
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Vote: Insomniac
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I'm a bit wary of this lynch going through too easily, but otherwise don't have a problem with it. I feel like if he was scum his partners might be trying to lynch a different lurker. also not sure why we decided on insomniac so quickly. sure he has the fewest posts, but all it would take is a couple of RVS vote posts and Jorbles is the lowest poster.
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LALz! Vote: Insomniac
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I'm a bit wary of this lynch going through too easily, but otherwise don't have a problem with it. I feel like if he was scum his partners might be trying to lynch a different lurker. also not sure why we decided on insomniac so quickly. sure he has the fewest posts, but all it would take is a couple of RVS vote posts and Jorbles is the lowest poster.
Interesting that lio is suddenly worried about 3 votes on a lurker but didn't say a peep when patpat had what? Four or five votes?
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I'm a bit wary of this lynch going through too easily, but otherwise don't have a problem with it. I feel like if he was scum his partners might be trying to lynch a different lurker. also not sure why we decided on insomniac so quickly. sure he has the fewest posts, but all it would take is a couple of RVS vote posts and Jorbles is the lowest poster.
Interesting that lio is suddenly worried about 3 votes on a lurker but didn't say a peep when patpat had what? Four or five votes?
Yes, I was just thinking the same thing!
I still think lynching the lurkers is better, thats usually where scum hides.
but if Insomniac flips there will be a case for lipoli to answer i think....
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Insom's votes came a lot faster and at once. I was confident the patpatppat lynch wouldn't happen, because he'd either start posting, or be replaced.
I would vote patpatppat, but the thing is that if he doesn't start posting, he'll likely be replaced. if he does start posting, then he wouldn't be lurking anymore would he?
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And I will be fine with voting insom if he continues to lurk. But I mean, the game has been only ongoing for a few days... and it's the weekend.
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I'm a bit wary of this lynch going through too easily, but otherwise don't have a problem with it. I feel like if he was scum his partners might be trying to lynch a different lurker. also not sure why we decided on insomniac so quickly. sure he has the fewest posts, but all it would take is a couple of RVS vote posts and Jorbles is the lowest poster.
Interesting that lio is suddenly worried about 3 votes on a lurker but didn't say a peep when patpat had what? Four or five votes?
Yes, I was just thinking the same thing!
I still think lynching the lurkers is better, thats usually where scum hides.
but if Insomniac flips there will be a case for lipoli to answer i think....
I just have a horrible time justifying a lynch on a lurker to myself when I see somebody actively being shady. Totally recognize this is just me being stubborn but I'd still prefer lio. Making waffles now and will post a case after that deliciousness.
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I'm a bit wary of this lynch going through too easily, but otherwise don't have a problem with it. I feel like if he was scum his partners might be trying to lynch a different lurker. also not sure why we decided on insomniac so quickly. sure he has the fewest posts, but all it would take is a couple of RVS vote posts and Jorbles is the lowest poster.
Interesting that lio is suddenly worried about 3 votes on a lurker but didn't say a peep when patpat had what? Four or five votes?
Yes, I was just thinking the same thing!
I still think lynching the lurkers is better, thats usually where scum hides.
but if Insomniac flips there will be a case for lipoli to answer i think....
I just have a horrible time justifying a lynch on a lurker to myself when I see somebody actively being shady. Totally recognize this is just me being stubborn but I'd still prefer lio. Making waffles now and will post a case after that deliciousness.
It's only shady activity if Insomniac is scum....if Insom turns out to be town then its just lipoli being worried.
im fairly sure that post weekend Insomniac will be back and will be active enough to derail a lynch on his lurkiness.
Good Enough for me now to leave vote where it is until something changes.
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I would vote Insomniac for the same reasons, but the fast streak of votes he has acquired is leaving me thinking. If Insom is scum, bussing is possible but I wouldn't thinking there would be bussing scum within there, because I wouldn't bus a strong scum player such as him. Moreover, it's the weekend, he hasn't even logged on this weekend. I'm going to at least wait until the end of the weekend before I think about this further.
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OK, so post #126 is where lio suggests map claim but the pros he lists are painfully outweighed by the cons. In what world is it ever a good idea to point scum in the direction of either town or good stuff? I certainly don't want scum to know room I'm in, where I have been, how much money I have, or what I have or haven't purchased. Beyond that, D1 claiming just gets right under my skin because it creates a lot of unnecessary chatter and only helps scum. In later days, cool, let's talk about it, but it only gives scum fuel this early into the game.
He continues to push this in #133 and #136. Also interesting is #136 is how he's in favor of a lurker lynch if nobody super scummy pops up but he is currently trying to stop a lynch on a lurker.
#144 - again bringing up map claiming. Then in #153, after ash accused him of a scum slip for knowing how many night kills there can be, he got super defensive. His post didn't indicate anything the rest of the world doesn't already know, ash was clearly pointing fingers at him to get a reaction and it worked. Lio then tried to play off being called out for being defensive in post #156.
#180 is the one that really got me thinking. He says a semi-map claim will help scum with pillaging but that's "a small price to pay." I disagree. If scum are consistently pillaging and getting a good return on that, how on earth is town supposed to get any really helpful or powerful roles? Pillaging only helps scum so to suggest that it's no big deal is very scummy in my eyes.
#271, finally gets enough heat for pushing claiming and starts to back off but then is back at it at #281.
To avoid this getting too long (as I'm afraid it may already be), basically this boils down to me feeling like lio has been trying to lead town down a very bad path. I don't see claiming, this early, as being any sort of helpful to town and all sorts of helpful to scum. I understand he's backed off that now but pushed it very hard and then back off really quick. Beyond that, when he gets kick back on his ideas, he's just been soooooo defensive and then tried to play down that defensiveness. Also, when his ideas get shot down, he seems perfectly content to just go with the flow of traffic. For example, #279 he will not vote no lynch today, then #331, after the conversation is back on this topic, he's totally cool with it and doesn't know why it shouldn't be considered.
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Vote Count 1.6
mail-mi (1) -- mcmcsalot
liopoil (1) -- yuma
ashersky (2) -- Lekkit, Insomniac
raerae (1) -- Jimm
mcmcsalot (1) -- ashersky
Kooshie (1) -- liopoil
Insomniac (3) -- Ozle, sudgy, mail-mi
No Lynch (1) -- xeiron
Not Voting (5) -- raerae, Eevee, sparky5856, Kooshie, Jorbles
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Raerae has replaed patpatppat.
Sad that pats out, however...Raerae!!!!! Hello there, can't wait for your insight. Hopefully you do what I expect and ignore the ridicuous claim/non-claim arguments and start some good old fashion scum hunting. I suggest taking a look at yuma, kooshie, and mail-mi.
Why these three?
Because yuma is different than I expected him to be so have other reads I respect on him would help, mail-mi and kooshie I find somewhat scummy and you played very closely with them as well as me so I was wondering if you agreed.
Yuma is always a mystery to me. The man is good so, sorry, but can't help you out much with this one.
Mail-mi seems to be basically typical mail-mi, nothing too concerning so far. At least nothing out of the ordinary of him always seeming a little off.
Kooshie has been quieter than I would normally expect but she hasn't done anything I find particularly offensive. I don't know if I'd call this scummy but I do find it odd so I've got my eye on her.
Also, forgot to do this in the last post...
Vote: liopoil
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OK, so post #126 is where lio suggests map claim but the pros he lists are painfully outweighed by the cons. In what world is it ever a good idea to point scum in the direction of either town or good stuff? I certainly don't want scum to know room I'm in, where I have been, how much money I have, or what I have or haven't purchased. Beyond that, D1 claiming just gets right under my skin because it creates a lot of unnecessary chatter and only helps scum. In later days, cool, let's talk about it, but it only gives scum fuel this early into the game.
He continues to push this in #133 and #136. Also interesting is #136 is how he's in favor of a lurker lynch if nobody super scummy pops up but he is currently trying to stop a lynch on a lurker.
#144 - again bringing up map claiming. Then in #153, after ash accused him of a scum slip for knowing how many night kills there can be, he got super defensive. His post didn't indicate anything the rest of the world doesn't already know, ash was clearly pointing fingers at him to get a reaction and it worked. Lio then tried to play off being called out for being defensive in post #156.
#180 is the one that really got me thinking. He says a semi-map claim will help scum with pillaging but that's "a small price to pay." I disagree. If scum are consistently pillaging and getting a good return on that, how on earth is town supposed to get any really helpful or powerful roles? Pillaging only helps scum so to suggest that it's no big deal is very scummy in my eyes.
#271, finally gets enough heat for pushing claiming and starts to back off but then is back at it at #281.
To avoid this getting too long (as I'm afraid it may already be), basically this boils down to me feeling like lio has been trying to lead town down a very bad path. I don't see claiming, this early, as being any sort of helpful to town and all sorts of helpful to scum. I understand he's backed off that now but pushed it very hard and then back off really quick. Beyond that, when he gets kick back on his ideas, he's just been soooooo defensive and then tried to play down that defensiveness. Also, when his ideas get shot down, he seems perfectly content to just go with the flow of traffic. For example, #279 he will not vote no lynch today, then #331, after the conversation is back on this topic, he's totally cool with it and doesn't know why it shouldn't be considered.
At risk of sounding even more defensive, I'll try to respond to this. The main reason I've for the most part backed off the claiming thing is because I recognized that I was wrong about a lot of it. Yuma, ozle, and others convinced me. Another reason is that the discussion was obviously going nowhere and is now a waste of time.
I am in favor of a lurker lynch. I was not trying to derail the insomniac lynch, I just thought it was a bit early to be voting based on that. Insomniac still has time to come back and post lots. When it comes time to decide on who to lynch I will most likely be voting for the biggest lurker, unless there is a very good case on someone else. For now I think our time is best spent looking for a very good case on someone else (a non-lurker), which is exactly what raerae is doing.
I was never totally cool with a no lynch. I voiced disapproval and Yuma's unwillingness to consider it. when Xeiron said why he thinks we should no lynch I looked at what he said, considered it, and decided that it's probably best for a later day. I believe that anything that is potentially pro-town should be considered.
I don't understand why everyone thinks defensiveness is a scumtell. Nobody wants to be lynched, so defending yourself is always a good idea. I'd be more suspicious of people who don't defend them self. Some of you have said that it's in the way that you defend yourself that is scummy. What defense have I made that was scummy, and why?
Raerae is stretching my words in many of these points, which seems similar to me as what I did to Kooshie D1 of newbie mafia, (as scum)
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Actually, Liopoil is acting differently than I remember when he was scum... This makes me think he's town. This could change later though.
I voted for Insomniac because I'm trying to get him to post. I don't like LaLL that much, while it can be useful sometimes (and lurking is scummy), I would rather lynch someone else. If Insomniac suddenly was at L-1 or something, I would unvote.
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I'm against a no lynch today.
Stretching his words?
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I'm against a no lynch today.
Stretching his words?
This is not stretching, my words, this is:
#331, after the conversation is back on this topic, he's totally cool with it and doesn't know why it shouldn't be considered.
my #331:
I don't know why we shouldn't even consider nolynch... if it's good for town we should do it. But I'm not so sure that it is good for town. where do you get those numbers xeiron? I guess the whole idea is it doesn't lower our misslynch number...
I'm still not sold on the idea, but willing to consider it. I considered, but think it is best for a later day. I am most certainly not "totally cool with it"
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I'm against a no lynch today.
Stretching his words?
Balls, realize I read that wrong. I read never in favor of a no lynch. And on the reread of #331, I concede, he isn't as in favor as I originally read. May have been a bit of tunneling on my part. I retract the no lynch argument from my case but stand firm behind that rest of is.
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Actually, Liopoil is acting differently than I remember when he was scum... This makes me think he's town. This could change later though.
I voted for Insomniac because I'm trying to get him to post. I don't like LaLL that much, while it can be useful sometimes (and lurking is scummy), I would rather lynch someone else. If Insomniac suddenly was at L-1 or something, I would unvote.
Then whats the point of voting for him if your not intending to lynch him? Especially publically stating you would unvote. Your vote counts for nothing now.
All your doing is help build a wagon that could get him lynched then hopping off at the right opportunity.
i am voting for Insomniac because if he continues to lurk then I fully intend him to try and lynch him. I will not give lurkers a free pass.
I personally think lipoli is just wrong rather than scummy over the map thing, I dont think I have ever managed to catch a scum actively rolefishing. And in the games I have run and watched with over complicated settings, i dont think any of the scum have come out to try and get information like that in Day 1. Day 3 or 4 is another matter completely. One Way or Another we'll find out eventually...
However, getting worried about the Insomniac lynch does seem a little scummy, but not enough for my to switch, its only minor. Unless of course Insom does turn out to be scum, then it becomes a major scum tell.
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My point about lio at this point is thus:
1. in the past few games there has been a movement toward townie members suggesting "plans." regardless of whether or not they are taken up or not. And it has become established as a fds meta of sorts that these plans are created by town. See ash in Ozle's game and in MXX, eevee to an extent in Galz' RMMM, etc, etc.
2. in the past few games there has also been a movement of scum toward the top of the posting board. See Robz in MXIX, myself in MXIX and in MXX. Scum just isn't lurking as much anymore!!! And that is great! Here is why, and is something I have said from the very beginning. It is hard to post as scum. It really, really is. As scum in multiple previous games I can attest to this. It is super, super hard. To come up with stuff to say that isn't incriminating, that doesn't have slips, that you are able to maintain throughout a game is very very difficult. And eventually, if--and this is the catch!!--you post enough, you will slip up. You will make a mistake somewhere ala Frisk in MVIII or sparky in MIX.
3. but because of this meta, players who have high post numbers are often given town leading status and are basically lynch free the entire game. again see ash and myself and robz in previous, recent games.
4. lio I believe fits the bill of a player who is coming into this game knowing that 1. crazy idea people don't get lynched, 2. high posters don't get lynch and 3. town leaders don't get lynch and tries to establish himself as all three by doing the above, but not really doing much true scumhunting--because that is where having high post counts is difficult. It really, truly is.
Now again, I may be suffering from the be suspicious of the most active player syndrome. That happens to me sometimes. And yes LALL can be successful--although to be honest for it to be successful town often has to spend an excruciating amount of time to get to that point (MXI and MXVII for Grujah and Lekkit respectively) which requires using up a large amount of our bankable time--but I think it is too early to even consider LALL. For now I am focusing on who I think is most likely to be scum and for now I think it is lio. If everyone had ~33% of being scum, I would put lio at 40%.
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Soft-deadline suggestion: Wednesday at 8pm forum time?
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Soft-deadline suggestion: Wednesday at 8pm forum time?
Did I miss where the actual details on bankable details are?
Not in the first post.
Obviously if Time is Running Out then we need to get a move on....
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If I remember correctly it is 3 free days per mafia day, with 40 bankable days for the whole game. Average game should take ~5.8 days. average of 57.4 days total for the game. 57.4/5.8 is about 9.89 days per mafia day. First day should probably be shorter. the game started on the 14th. So I'd suggest a soft deadline of the 21st.
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Soft-deadline suggestion: Wednesday at 8pm forum time?
Did I miss where the actual details on bankable details are?
Not in the first post.
Obviously if Time is Running Out then we need to get a move on....
No clue but there's been discussion so I made a suggestion.
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If I remember correctly it is 3 free days per mafia day, with 40 bankable days for the whole game. Average game should take ~5.8 days. average of 57.4 days total for the game. 57.4/5.8 is about 9.89 days per mafia day. First day should probably be shorter. the game started on the 14th. So I'd suggest a soft deadline of the 21st.
This is correct, soft deadlines are rarely adhered too so I think Wednesday at 8pm forum time sounds good.
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I've had a super busy weekend. Don't know if I'll be able to post much tomorrow either. Should be back at tuesday, if nothing else happens. I think lio looks pretty bad, but I'm not totally convinced he's scum.
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Hey sorry, I've had other forum obligations that have been taking my time. I'm opposed to xeiron's no lynch plan. It deprives us of too much information. We can't analyze lynch wagons. I'm not opposed to a lurker lynch (as long as it's not me!), but so far here's my reads:
raerae seems to be playing pretty well since she joined up and replaced pat. slightly towny
liopoil pushing the claim argument seems kinda scummy, like he's fishing for more info, slightly scummy.
xeiron's plan to no lynch seems like bad town play rather than scum play, I don't think scum would try to push a plan like that. slightly towny, though misguded.
Ozle and yuma seem towny to me based on their strong opinions.
I have a vague memory of mcmc seeming scummy to me when I read some of his posts so I will reread him.
I guess my biggest scum read right now is liopoil though so, vote: liopoil.
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okay, so Yuma says I'm not scumhunting enough. this is probably true, but is primarily because I've had to defend myself so much. So I'll explain my vote on Kooshie in more detail. Yeah, I know I made a D1 case on kooshie in another dinner party that was wrong, but I was scum there. I'm town here, though many of you may disagree with that. Anyway, since kooshie has so few posts (13) I'll go over each one.
1) RVS votes me.
2) says she will say stuff soon and is busy right now. unvotes because her vote was RVS
3) criticizes ash's play, but doesn't think it is scummy. says she will be gone again, but will catch up on the weekend
4) says she'll post the following morning
5) asks me to re-explain my claiming arguement
6) says she is all caught up
7) says there might be crazy roles in the bank
8) says there might be crazy roles in the bank
9) asks for prod on pat instead of voting for him. re-explains her absence. Questions my FOS on her. I had explained the FOS on her previously, saying that it was because she said she was all caught up and there but not providing content.
10) asks if xeiron took town deaths into account in his calculation of town's win chances
11) I don't totally understand this one. It is in response to xeiron saying that of course he took into account town deaths, but what she says is "I meant NKs... but you did"
12) says that scum gets more benefit from walking around at night
13) Accepts that she hasn't said much, but that was because everything had already been said. Offers to post thoughts. This is her most recent post, which was over 24hrs ago.
None of these posts are more than a couple lines long. She doesn't post a single scumread or townread. many of these posts are just about how she will post later. She asks a lot of questions. she asks me to re-explain the claiming thing, to explain my FOS more, if xeiron counted NKs, and asks for a prod on pat. She states exactly two of her beliefs. One is that she doesn't like ash's play, but that it isn't neccessarily scummy. the other is that she thinks scum gets more benefit from walking around at night.
So the reason I have such a scumread on her isn't just the lack of content. There are others who haven't posted much, like insomniac. My reason is that she doesn't have an excuse or whatever anymore. in the first few days of the game she said she was busy and stuff, and this is reasonable. However, she said she would catch up and post on the weekend! In fact, she has also said that she is all caught up now! If this is so and she is town, there are tons of things for her to say. The only explanation for me is that she is scum. Since there are lots of other lurkers, she could probably get away with lurking, as long as there are a couple people below her in the post counts. I can understand everyone else's lurking, because they have sited RL thing, or at least might be busy. People are generally busy on the weekend. Kooshie however has said that she has MORE time on the weekend, and that she would post about stuff then. This is why I am actually fairly confident in this scum read. My vote is already on Kooshie.
If anyone would like the quotes to some of her posts I could do that.
Also interested to see Kooshie's response, so don't defend her if you think she's town until she's defended herself.
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This is turning into MXXI... I'm starting to think either liopoil or kooshie is scum... Right after liopoil makes a big case on kooshie...
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I am also thinking either liopoil or kooshie is scum.
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vote: kooshie
I think liopoil's case is a decent one for day 1. I'm leaning towards town on him regardless of kooshies alignment.
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For a second I was like "oh cool, Eevee must be town!" But then I remembered:
ummm, everyone defends themself when accused... especially when they think it is a somewhat ridiculous accusation. I think you're just trying to see how I react to this...
I think so too. A little bit of FoS to ashersky (but I know it could be trying to see how he would respond).
Buddying. Eevee tell.
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Another question regarding lynch ws no lynch
Who will benefit most from wandering around in the bank?
There are more town players and if only one of us acquire something that can point out mafia we are in business. I am also inclined to think that items i general is more useful for town than for mafia.
Mafia, on the other hand, have more information and pillage makes it easier for them to afford expensive stuff earlier.
I am not sure what weights most. Do anybody have any thoughts.
Now if town benfits most, that would push probabilities in a direction favoring a no lynch
If it is the mafia, we should go lynching right away hoping to get them before they grows too strong.
Anyways, I think I have convinced myself enough to vote: no lynch
The problem with no-lynching is that it doesn't help us find scum. Even if we mislynch, it forces scum to come up with opinions, or not come up with opinions, and gives us interactions etc that we can look at for future lynches.
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Honestly, I don't think that liopoil's scum. Many people have said, "Ooh, defensiveness. Ooh, massclaim. Ohh, ooh, ooh." On the defensiveness, I think that he's the kind of person that when questioned on things like that, would get a little defensive. he came up with this idea, and thought it might actually worked. People criticized it and questioned it in a way he probably didn't like. He got a teensy bit offended, and when people called him scummy, he felt the need to defend himself in the way that he did. That's what I think about his defensiveness.
On his massclaim idea, it ties into the defensiveness. At first it was an idea, he got a bit miffed, and then when people were toppling it and it was clear it wasn't going to work, he realized he might be lynched, and like any town player, didn't like that. He still wanted his idea to be considered, though, so he slimmed it down, in the process realizing that it really needed slimming down.
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okay, so Yuma says I'm not scumhunting enough. this is probably true, but is primarily because I've had to defend myself so much. So I'll explain my vote on Kooshie in more detail. Yeah, I know I made a D1 case on kooshie in another dinner party that was wrong, but I was scum there. I'm town here, though many of you may disagree with that. Anyway, since kooshie has so few posts (13) I'll go over each one.
1) RVS votes me.
2) says she will say stuff soon and is busy right now. unvotes because her vote was RVS
3) criticizes ash's play, but doesn't think it is scummy. says she will be gone again, but will catch up on the weekend
4) says she'll post the following morning
5) asks me to re-explain my claiming arguement
6) says she is all caught up
7) says there might be crazy roles in the bank
8) says there might be crazy roles in the bank
9) asks for prod on pat instead of voting for him. re-explains her absence. Questions my FOS on her. I had explained the FOS on her previously, saying that it was because she said she was all caught up and there but not providing content.
10) asks if xeiron took town deaths into account in his calculation of town's win chances
11) I don't totally understand this one. It is in response to xeiron saying that of course he took into account town deaths, but what she says is "I meant NKs... but you did"
12) says that scum gets more benefit from walking around at night
13) Accepts that she hasn't said much, but that was because everything had already been said. Offers to post thoughts. This is her most recent post, which was over 24hrs ago.
None of these posts are more than a couple lines long. She doesn't post a single scumread or townread. many of these posts are just about how she will post later. She asks a lot of questions. she asks me to re-explain the claiming thing, to explain my FOS more, if xeiron counted NKs, and asks for a prod on pat. She states exactly two of her beliefs. One is that she doesn't like ash's play, but that it isn't neccessarily scummy. the other is that she thinks scum gets more benefit from walking around at night.
So the reason I have such a scumread on her isn't just the lack of content. There are others who haven't posted much, like insomniac. My reason is that she doesn't have an excuse or whatever anymore. in the first few days of the game she said she was busy and stuff, and this is reasonable. However, she said she would catch up and post on the weekend! In fact, she has also said that she is all caught up now! If this is so and she is town, there are tons of things for her to say. The only explanation for me is that she is scum. Since there are lots of other lurkers, she could probably get away with lurking, as long as there are a couple people below her in the post counts. I can understand everyone else's lurking, because they have sited RL thing, or at least might be busy. People are generally busy on the weekend. Kooshie however has said that she has MORE time on the weekend, and that she would post about stuff then. This is why I am actually fairly confident in this scum read. My vote is already on Kooshie.
If anyone would like the quotes to some of her posts I could do that.
Also interested to see Kooshie's response, so don't defend her if you think she's town until she's defended herself.
Can you pull up the quotes? Then I'll be able to say something. I will say I'm sorry, though, for not posting so much, while saying I would.
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you want all 13?
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Actually, in disagreement w/ sudgy, i think liopoil is acting very similar to herself in the newbie game (he was scum.) Vote: liopoil
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Okay on rereading mcmcsalot I remember why I found him scummy.
He supported the claim idea, which I think will help scum plan their moves.
Then he accused ash of artificially inflating his post count. I don't think ash is ever in danger of having a low post count. He's never lurky, it's not his style. This makes mcmc look slightly scummy because he was pushing a weak case.
When raerae joins he says that we should be looking at yuma, kooshie and mail-mi. Not sure why he picked these people except yuma who he'd been disagreeing with. He hadn't really been interacting with kooshie and mail-mi.
This doesn't all add up to a solid case, but I wanted to follow through on what I'd said I would do earlier. mcmc seems vaguely scummy to me. Not sure if it's enough to change my vote.
PPE: Even though I think liopoil is a little scummy, I can't argue with his case on Kooshie which looks solid. Kooshie kinda looks like she is stalling right now instead of addressing the case (plus apologizing for not posting content when you said you would isn't posting content). Defending liopoil looks to me like buddying to try and deflect the case.
Vote: Kooshie
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On no-lynching, I've never done it, so I haven't really seen and experienced what happens. Could someone who has describe it to me? On what I know about it right now, I'd say I'd rather not. Like Jimm said, we have less opinions or lack of them to go on. We also have a harder time figuring out why and who did the nightkills.
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you want all 13?
Yes.
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For a second I was like "oh cool, Eevee must be town!" But then I remembered:
ummm, everyone defends themself when accused... especially when they think it is a somewhat ridiculous accusation. I think you're just trying to see how I react to this...
I think so too. A little bit of FoS to ashersky (but I know it could be trying to see how he would respond).
Buddying. Eevee tell.
Wow. You thought people that agree with you must be town?
You have a case sure, but unless your 100% sure, that doesn't make people who agree with you Town! Especially if they just pop up out of the Blue agree and vote! That should be regarded as highly suspicious!
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On no-lynching, I've never done it, so I haven't really seen and experienced what happens. Could someone who has describe it to me? On what I know about it right now, I'd say I'd rather not. Like Jimm said, we have less opinions or lack of them to go on. We also have a harder time figuring out why and who did the nightkills.
It means that no one gets lynched. We will just skip right to the next night.
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Honestly, I don't think that liopoil's scum. Many people have said, "Ooh, defensiveness. Ooh, massclaim. Ohh, ooh, ooh." On the defensiveness, I think that he's the kind of person that when questioned on things like that, would get a little defensive. he came up with this idea, and thought it might actually worked. People criticized it and questioned it in a way he probably didn't like. He got a teensy bit offended, and when people called him scummy, he felt the need to defend himself in the way that he did. That's what I think about his defensiveness.
On his massclaim idea, it ties into the defensiveness. At first it was an idea, he got a bit miffed, and then when people were toppling it and it was clear it wasn't going to work, he realized he might be lynched, and like any town player, didn't like that. He still wanted his idea to be considered, though, so he slimmed it down, in the process realizing that it really needed slimming down.
wait what? How do you know he's town?
-rereads-
...okay so you just THINK he's town. this just sounded like a slip to me at first.
I will agree that Kooshie hasn't brought much to the table despite promises, I'll need to take a closer look at lio's case.
I still find Insomniac's lurking to be a yellow flag, so he's my top candidate for now. Waiting to see him before the weekend ends.
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of course I don't think people who agree with me must be town, that's ridiculous! I assumed people would know that...
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I also read kooshie's post as being too sure that I am town. She seemed a bit too certain...
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For a second I was like "oh cool, Eevee must be town!" But then I remembered:
of course I don't think people who agree with me must be town, that's ridiculous! I assumed people would know that...
How is that ridiculous, you said it!
And then you explained how your initial thinking was wrong by pointing out out Eevee likes to buddy.
If it was sarcasm, then why feel the need to justify it?
It just feels so staged....
Im still Waiting for the Man Insomniac and the other lurkers to come before we even decide to lynch anybody surely?
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Can't hurt I guess:
1)2)I'm going to say stuff soon. Thursdays are very busy for me, so I'm just going to Unvote from RVS and catch up on everything.
3)I don't really like Ash's playing. Yes, there are reasons for all his "tells" but they distract me from what ever else he posted, if anything else. It isn't scummy play, but please, Ashersky, do it a bit less.
I'm going to be gone for another 3 or so hours, proabably more. I will post a lot on the weekend to make up for this.
4)No time to catch up more. Only time to sleep. I'll post in the morning, and I'm on forum time.
5)Okay. @Liopoil, can you explain with some hard logic why the items on your claim list are better for town than scum? I'm having a bit of a hard time processing it. Oh, and hmm, did you not want a massclaim? That is what that first post about claiming you had looked like...
6)7)8 )9) Instead of voting for pat, should we just get a prod on pat
@liopoil, why FoS on me? I explained my absence. Thursdays are busy, and I had to leave earlier than I thought I would on Friday. After that I was tired, grumpy, and ready to sleep, not post about a bajillion things.
10)You took town deaths into account, right?
11)12)13)
took out the text for some of these to save space. just click on them to see the post.
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For a second I was like "oh cool, Eevee must be town!" But then I remembered:
of course I don't think people who agree with me must be town, that's ridiculous! I assumed people would know that...
How is that ridiculous, you said it!
And then you explained how your initial thinking was wrong by pointing out out Eevee likes to buddy.
If it was sarcasm, then why feel the need to justify it?
It just feels so staged....
Im still Waiting for the Man Insomniac and the other lurkers to come before we even decide to lynch anybody surely?
Of course we should lynch anyone yet.
I didn't mean it literally... I had gotten a townread on eevee from the post, then remembered that scum sometimes buddy, especially eevee, and so turned it to a null read on the post.
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Liopoil is crazy defensive, always. In ds9 it was a huge reason I as scum had a scum read on liopoil and was willing to push it to my grave to take out my scum enemy, then he was cleared as town and I was blown off my feet. The newbies from MXXI had a strong tendency to be overly defensive and have immediate scum reads on people who suspected them.
Here's a snippit form liopoil showing this tendancy.
Raerae is stretching my words in many of these points, which seems similar to me as what I did to Kooshie D1 of newbie mafia, (as scum)
I do not think this makes him any more likely to be scum, in fact liopoil was very reserved when he played scum with me and so I would say I have a solid town read on him.
As for me three targets, I believe I mentioned it but jorble asked again so I will clear it up. I did not say "we" should be looking at yuma, mail-mi, and kooshie. I said raerae should look at them. You were correct yuma was because I simply have a hard time reading him and we disagreed a bit so I wanted raerae to give her insight. As for mail-mi and kooshie, I had slight scum reads on both and new raerae played very closely with mail-mi and especially kooshie in the newbie game so I figured she would have a good read on them.
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As for me three targets, I believe I mentioned it but jorble asked again so I will clear it up. I did not say "we" should be looking at yuma, mail-mi, and kooshie. I said raerae should look at them. You were correct yuma was because I simply have a hard time reading him and we disagreed a bit so I wanted raerae to give her insight.
that doesn't seem completely true. As I remember you thought that I was acting differently then I had before in games you had played with me.
Dissmissive yuma is unlike the town yuma I know, scum read for you. Not because of your position but the way you said it.
Which I find interesting because I don't think you have seen town!yuma before. Have you? Or is it that scum!yuma is just so good at replicating townie play that you think you have seen town!yuma and now that you actually are seeing town!yuma you think it must be scum!yuma because it is different from what you remember town!yuma to be even thought that was scum!yuma.
Have I confused you yet? But the point remains... You didn't just want raerae's opinion because you have a hard time reading me. You read me as scum... based off me not being the town you remember. But I don't think you haven't seen me as town before.
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You are now eating into your deadline time. At this point, the game would end on Friday, April 26th, at 7:00 PM.
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So just went through and checked, you have not been town in any game we have played together. We have not actually played together in many games. I was confused because you were scum in ds9 but so was I and I honestly did not know you we're scum until the last day. The other game was mason and monks, where again I lasted till day three and did no know you we're scum until it was revealed so.
So I guess you are not playing the way I expect because I expected to have a town read on you as usual but I did not, hence why I asked for a second opinion. I believe my reads on you if anything would indicate you are more likely town than scum.
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It's funny how everyone's saying about yuma, "I don't have a Townread on you, therefore you must be Town."
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Alright. Weekend over. I'm back and caught up. Am now firmly against claimin unless you have something worth claiming.
Re: Insom votes. I'm actually a bit torn on this one. I 100% like Ozle's vote. That one is legit. Ash and sudgy just posted a vote for me without backing it up because I was an easy vote at the time. Now here's my issue. I already found ash scummy. But sudgy? That guy decided to defend his vote on me after the fact which is way more scummy than I feel about ash right now so I will be putting my vote there for now. Vote: sudgy
I have no strong feelings on liopoli vs kooshie right now as I don't have a ton of back data on these players.
Eevee lurking is probably the most bothersome to me of their post CPU gets. Though I put far less into that stat since I have lurked as town and its just because I'm busy in RL (talking about masons vs monks right now)
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It's funny how everyone's saying about yuma, "I don't have a Townread on you, therefore you must be Town."
Yuma is my strongest town read right now but I have a habit of reading him wrong lately. In games where he is scum though I tend to read his posts and think he has a strong point but expresses it in a way that is non confrontational and often forgettable. Here he has been much more confrontational and is one of the people I remember is playing this game the most
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I think I support the sudgy vote, he has read scummy to me.
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I voted for Insomniac because I wanted to get him to start posting. I thought that was clear when I voted, but when people started freaking out about it I said why. I'll Unvote for now though.
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Vote Count 1.7
mail-mi (1) -- mcmcsalot
liopoil (3) -- yuma, raerae, mail-mi
ashersky (2) -- Lekkit
raerae (1) -- Jimm
mcmcsalot (1) -- ashersky
Kooshie (3) -- liopoil, Eevee, Jorbles
Insomniac (1) -- Ozle
sudgy (1) -- Insomniac
No Lynch (1) -- xeiron
Not Voting (5) -- sparky5856, Kooshie, sudgy
With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.
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You are now eating into your deadline time. At this point, the game would end on Friday, April 26th, at 7:00 PM.
I dont know if anyone picked this up, but time is fairly liberal here!
Thats 40 Days and Night, which is a LOT of time.
If this game were to go to 5 days, thats 8 +3 extra per day. I think a good number for soft deadline would be 8-9 days, that leaves us 13 spare when we get to Day 6 if we need them, and a bit of leeway. (Someone able to check the maths in that?)
As for reads and lynching. The only person I feel I have a slight town read on is Yuma, because what he says makes sense. But its nothing too strong. But then this is Day 1 where cases are built on Shifting Sand and are never brilliant, so it could all change.
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Vote Count 1.7
mail-mi (1) -- mcmcsalot
liopoil (3) -- yuma, raerae, mail-mi
ashersky (2) -- Lekkit, Insomniac
raerae (1) -- Jimm
mcmcsalot (1) -- ashersky
Kooshie (3) -- liopoil, Eevee, Jorbles
Insomniac (1) -- Ozle
No Lynch (1) -- xeiron
Not Voting (5) -- sparky5856, Kooshie, sudgy
With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.
I think insom is voting for sudgy
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Fixed that. Thanks. You are all casting a lot of votes, good heavens!
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You are now eating into your deadline time. At this point, the game would end on Friday, April 26th, at 7:00 PM.
I dont know if anyone picked this up, but time is fairly liberal here!
Thats 40 Days and Night, which is a LOT of time.
well Robz' last game went super long. I don't remember how many in game days we had but it went 86 real life days and was ~ 11 mafia days long... so if each night was 2-3 days that is ~ 24 real life days gone out of the 86, putting us at ~ 62? And yes, Robz's last game had a lot more players which added to its length, but this game also has quite a few players, but not to the extent that that game did.
Moral of the story. Let's have soft deadlines, but not rush into anything. As mafia in ash's game I feel like that rush helped immensely as mafia because it gave easy excuses to join onto the arch, insom wagons and hurried other players into voting for someone more because of a time crunch than scummy play.
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So we have two onboard for Wednesday at 8. One for Thursday. Should we just shoot for Wednesday/Thursday or does somebody have a different preference?
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So we have two onboard for Wednesday at 8. One for Thursday. Should we just shoot for Wednesday/Thursday or does somebody have a different preference?
Wednesday is good for me, I am of the opinion that D1s are usually too long, and the later days are where you develop more useful reads and analysis.
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So we have two onboard for Wednesday at 8. One for Thursday. Should we just shoot for Wednesday/Thursday or does somebody have a different preference?
Wednesday is good for me, I am of the opinion that D1s are usually too long, and the later days are where you develop more useful reads and analysis.
Alright, as you both have suggested Wednesday or Thursday will be fine with me. However unless I get a proper scumread on someone my vote will probably go on the person I think is the lurkiest.
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It's funny how everyone's saying about yuma, "I don't have a Townread on you, therefore you must be Town."
Yuma is my strongest town read right now but I have a habit of reading him wrong lately. In games where he is scum though I tend to read his posts and think he has a strong point but expresses it in a way that is non confrontational and often forgettable. Here he has been much more confrontational and is one of the people I remember is playing this game the most
I pretty much agree with this, although I don't claim to be able to read yuma AT ALL. But, the basis for my town read I believe I already explained earlier was exactly this, he was making sense AND being very controversial. Sure, he is devious enough to do whatever as scum, but that just feels like so much of a town trait to me.
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Eevee lurking is probably the most bothersome to me of their post CPU gets. Though I put far less into that stat since I have lurked as town and its just because I'm busy in RL (talking about masons vs monks right now)
I dont understand what a post CPU means, but just in case someone hasnt noticed.. I'm in Miami, mostly relying on phone access. I'm less active everywhere. Now, this doesn't try to be an excuse for ending up at the bottom of the post counts - it just takes me a while to get a hang of the game. I'm sure I'll be pulling my weight even later in day 1, and especially later.
Masons and Monks would be a finished game I could use as an example. I was town, borderline missing for 80% of day 1. Then, deadline started approaching and I was arguing (town) lynches through left and right.
So, sorry, IRL busies / hard to remember who is doing what at this point, but I'm sure lynching me for not contributing doesn't need to happen. Just need more concrete stuff to pick on, beginnings of day 1s are hard.
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I switched my vote to Insom, btw. unvote to save trouble.
I think lurking Yuma is town, so if he isn't super active, we may be safe.
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Liopoil: 47
Ashersky: 26
Ozle: 25
Mail-mi: 25
Sudgy: 18
Sparky5856: 17
Yuma: 16
Jimmmmm: 15
Mcmcsalot: 13
Kooshie: 13
Xeiron: 8
Eevee: 7
Lekkit: 6
Raerae: 5
Jorbles: 5
Insomniac: 4
So mcmc and up have been contributing plenty. Xeiron's posts have been quality too I think, though it would be nice if he posted some reads. eevee, lekkit, jorbles, and insomniac have sited reasons for not being able to post as much as they would like to. raerae just joined the game recently. That leaves kooshie, who I think is our only real lurker. Note that she popped up right away when I posted more about her, asked for quotes, which I gave, said she would respond, then disappeared again.
(post count is a few pages old and fairly outdated.)
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I also think Yuma is towny. I'm not sure what people have been finding scummy about him...
mail-mi is my second biggest scumread, for the claiming thing which seemed to be an attempt to get towncred for claiming early, and then voting me right when I posted the kooshie thing.
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vote: liopoil
Mcmc is contributing plenty but Kooshie gets your lurker tag? They have the exact same number of posts in your quote. Sounds like trying to form a bad case on D1. Scum tell (really).
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My reasons do not mean I shouldnt be considered a lurker. Like, IRL reasons or not, I have been posting only a little. Judge me accordingly. Otherwise it's just unfair, Kooshie has to post about some busies he has irl too to get off the hook? We all have lives outside this forum.
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vote: liopoil
Mcmc is contributing plenty but Kooshie gets your lurker tag? They have the exact same number of posts in your quote. Sounds like trying to form a bad case on D1. Scum tell (really).
Trying to wrap my head around why he would do this, liopoil has been in a few games now, and was in the large ds9 game, why would scum!liopoil tunnel this hard and push instead of just letting the game go on. If he is scum, they can surely divert a D1 lynch and are likely to just let the lynch land on whoever.
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kooshie's posts have pretty much no content. mcmc's do. Also I think mcmc has more posts now. I only think lurking is scummy if it is intentional, which it isn't for anyone else. So yeah, I guess eevee, lekkit, insom, and jorbles are lurking, but I don't think that makes them scummy because they are busy doing more important things.
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This applies A LOT to blitz-games, but to an extent works in normal mafia as well: As town, one is so into finding scum they just MAKE time to post. I've faked going to bathroom multiple times when I'm spending with friends and it would be rude to bury all my attention to my phone just to get to scream "ROBZ IS SO OBVSCUM!!" in a blitz game. If I had been scum, I would have said "I'm at a party, really just cant post sorry!"
So, how much you post when you don't really have much time is actually a pretty significant tell. Just very hard to quantify about anyone but yourself.
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kooshie's posts have pretty much no content. mcmc's do. Also I think mcmc has more posts now. I only think lurking is scummy if it is intentional, which it isn't for anyone else. So yeah, I guess eevee, lekkit, insom, and jorbles are lurking, but I don't think that makes them scummy because they are busy doing more important things.
Eh, I shouldn't be off the hook entirely, but I'll take it. I do agree that mcmc is at least providing some content. Kooshie's immediate response after being called out seems to imply that she's actually paying attention, but isn't contributing much.
vote: liopoil
Mcmc is contributing plenty but Kooshie gets your lurker tag? They have the exact same number of posts in your quote. Sounds like trying to form a bad case on D1. Scum tell (really).
I think liopoil is doing a good job of pushing the game ahead, I admit this could be scum!liopoil taking advantage of some bad town play. Maybe Kooshie isn't scum, but she hasn't been adding much to the game, so my vote will stand.
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that's a good point eevee, so I guess even if you are busy, lurking is still scummy. but still, isn't not posting when you AREN'T busy way more scummy? I can't think of a good reason for town to do it, but there are valid reasons for scum to.
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My reasons do not mean I shouldnt be considered a lurker. Like, IRL reasons or not, I have been posting only a little. Judge me accordingly. Otherwise it's just unfair, Kooshie has to post about some busies he has irl too to get off the hook? We all have lives outside this forum.
Oh I'll Be Watching You Mr Eevee I'll be watching you!
I've faked going to bathroom multiple times when I'm spending with friends
Yeah, dont blame your bladder problems on Mafia, not buying that for a second!
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Also, if I am at a party, I like to Party! mafia can sod off to be honest!
But thats ok because I dont generally get invited to parties so its not a problem!
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I think I agree enough with Liopoil to Vote: Kooshie. She doesn't lurk like this usually.
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I could go kooshie, but im still wary of liopoil. unvote for now.
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I'm noticing that mail-mi and sudgy do things at the same time a lot. there's their posts just now, but also the did there map claiming thing right next to each other too. sudgy first, then mail-mi in the next post.
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Eevee lurking is probably the most bothersome to me of their post CPU gets. Though I put far less into that stat since I have lurked as town and its just because I'm busy in RL (talking about masons vs monks right now)
I dont understand what a post CPU means, but just in case someone hasnt noticed.. I'm in Miami, mostly relying on phone access. I'm less active everywhere. Now, this doesn't try to be an excuse for ending up at the bottom of the post counts - it just takes me a while to get a hang of the game. I'm sure I'll be pulling my weight even later in day 1, and especially later.
Masons and Monks would be a finished game I could use as an example. I was town, borderline missing for 80% of day 1. Then, deadline started approaching and I was arguing (town) lynches through left and right.
So, sorry, IRL busies / hard to remember who is doing what at this point, but I'm sure lynching me for not contributing doesn't need to happen. Just need more concrete stuff to pick on, beginnings of day 1s are hard.
I spelt count wrong so my phone autocorrected it to CPU
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Okay. I'm not really able to form a defense, even with the quotes, since liopoil's main argument is that I'm not contributing. I will try to change that. Well, at least that's what stood out to me. How strong is that? I'll go reread it to make sure.
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Okay, I reread it it, and here's what I got(italicized words are me replying):
I'm not posting much content. There are other lurkers, but Kooshie doesn't have an excuse any more. Neither did the other lurkers, at the time. Did they even post excuses then? I said she would post more, but then she didn't. True. I said she had more time on weekends, but then didn't post. Was this on Saturday? I believe I had more time, then.
This was the bulk of what I got, pretty much.
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it seems to me that there is a big fuss on Yuma... can someone explain it to me? it seems to be mostly people getting suspicious, but then saying that they aren't good at reading Yuma. That is called hedging, right?
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yes, that is my only point. But the point to it wasn't just that you weren't contributing: because others aren't much either, the point is that you COULD be, and I think are underposting somewhat on purpose. Yes, all the other lurkers have been busying doing something else, or have limited access in some way.
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I like Wednesday for our soft deadline. We need to get a few more things going then don't we? I think right now it's mostly liopoil and I.
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yes, that is my only point. But the point to it wasn't just that you weren't contributing: because others aren't much either, the point is that you COULD be, and I think are underposting somewhat on purpose. Yes, all the other lurkers have been busying doing something else, or have limited access in some way.
Not on purpose... do you want more excuses? Because I have them. I could give you my entire schedule, and why I wasn't posting.
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I don't need your schedule, but were you really busy this weekend or so or had limited internet access or something??
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The thing with Yuma is he's super scum and always needs to be suspected or you will always, always lose to him.
The towniest Yuma is surely scum. I think scummy Yuma is probably town.
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The thing with Yuma is he's super scum and always needs to be suspected or you will always, always lose to him.
The towniest Yuma is surely scum. I think scummy Yuma is probably town.
That's... totally not confusing! Good thing you can tell is he's towny, right? Right?
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The thing with Yuma is he's super scum and always needs to be suspected or you will always, always lose to him.
The towniest Yuma is surely scum. I think scummy Yuma is probably town.
And now I know that my ultimate mafia goal is complete! Much better than scummy yuma being scum and townie yuma being town right? I mean that wouldn't be any fun at all!
I though I don't think I am ever extremely scummy one way or the other. Most of my "scummy" moments are more misunderstandings and semi-sloppy play. But enough about me. A goal for myself either tonight or tomorrow is to get a semi-read on everyone in the game and put down a solid vote going into the soft deadline.
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The thing with Yuma is he's super scum and always needs to be suspected or you will always, always lose to him.
The towniest Yuma is surely scum. I think scummy Yuma is probably town.
That's... totally not confusing! Good thing you can tell is he's towny, right? Right?
I can. Towny Yuma is a very good scum hunter who ends up mislynching town but we all understand how he could have felt that way and see no harm in it. Then he wins because he's scum.
Scummy Yuma lurks, contributes less, and gets lynched. And he flips town.
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The thing with Yuma is he's super scum and always needs to be suspected or you will always, always lose to him.
The towniest Yuma is surely scum. I think scummy Yuma is probably town.
That's... totally not confusing! Good thing you can tell is he's towny, right? Right?
Scummy Yuma lurks, contributes less, and gets lynched. And he flips town.
Hey, now I disagree with this! I wouldn't consider myself a lurker. I have one of the higher correct lynch rates around and--little known fact--I have only been mislynched once in MXI!
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The thing with Yuma is he's super scum and always needs to be suspected or you will always, always lose to him.
The towniest Yuma is surely scum. I think scummy Yuma is probably town.
That's... totally not confusing! Good thing you can tell is he's towny, right? Right?
Scummy Yuma lurks, contributes less, and gets lynched. And he flips town.
Hey, now I disagree with this! I wouldn't consider myself a lurker. I have one of the higher correct lynch rates around and--little known fact--I have only been mislynched once in MXI!
So you are scum again, then?
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The thing with Yuma is he's super scum and always needs to be suspected or you will always, always lose to him.
The towniest Yuma is surely scum. I think scummy Yuma is probably town.
That's... totally not confusing! Good thing you can tell is he's towny, right? Right?
Scummy Yuma lurks, contributes less, and gets lynched. And he flips town.
Hey, now I disagree with this! I wouldn't consider myself a lurker. I have one of the higher correct lynch rates around and--little known fact--I have only been mislynched once in MXI!
So you are scum again, then?
Only one way for you to find out!
But no. I am not scum.
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The thing with Yuma is he's super scum and always needs to be suspected or you will always, always lose to him.
The towniest Yuma is surely scum. I think scummy Yuma is probably town.
That's... totally not confusing! Good thing you can tell is he's towny, right? Right?
Scummy Yuma lurks, contributes less, and gets lynched. And he flips town.
Hey, now I disagree with this! I wouldn't consider myself a lurker. I have one of the higher correct lynch rates around and--little known fact--I have only been mislynched once in MXI!
I think my description of scum!yuma is correct. MnM is the perfect example of super towny scum Yuma.
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The thing with Yuma is he's super scum and always needs to be suspected or you will always, always lose to him.
The towniest Yuma is surely scum. I think scummy Yuma is probably town.
That's... totally not confusing! Good thing you can tell is he's towny, right? Right?
Scummy Yuma lurks, contributes less, and gets lynched. And he flips town.
Hey, now I disagree with this! I wouldn't consider myself a lurker. I have one of the higher correct lynch rates around and--little known fact--I have only been mislynched once in MXI!
I think my description of scum!yuma is correct. MnM is the perfect example of super towny scum Yuma.
Oh, I don't disagree with your assessment of me as scum. I disagree with your assessment of me when I am town.
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The thing with Yuma is he's super scum and always needs to be suspected or you will always, always lose to him.
The towniest Yuma is surely scum. I think scummy Yuma is probably town.
That's... totally not confusing! Good thing you can tell is he's towny, right? Right?
Scummy Yuma lurks, contributes less, and gets lynched. And he flips town.
Hey, now I disagree with this! I wouldn't consider myself a lurker. I have one of the higher correct lynch rates around and--little known fact--I have only been mislynched once in MXI!
You also fall in the yuma/insom, previously jim/ash category of people I confuse. At least that has been one of my issues in the past. I dont like the liopoil vs kooshie thing people brought up I think that means town vs town with 4 scum, they can push these things easily, and i will look back at who did it later. I like looking at sudgy and mail-mi for lynch targets.
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I figured out how to read yuma. D1 assume he's town. then for each night he isn't NKed get a little more suspicious, until on D7 he's obvscum. so then you lynch him, he flips scum, but you lose anyway because robz was also scum on the other team. luckily, robz isn't scum in this game so when we lynch him on D7 we win!
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This is turning into MXXI... I'm starting to think either liopoil or kooshie is scum... Right after liopoil makes a big case on kooshie...
here is the kooshie quote
Actually, in disagreement w/ sudgy, i think liopoil is acting very similar to herself in the newbie game (he was scum.) Vote: liopoil
and here is the mail-mi vote.
Looking at this it also looks like scum distancing while pushing two town lynches.
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Alright back for a brief moment. Finals week this week, so I'm gonna be a bit spottier than usual. Just finished writing a mini-shell in C that took the whole day, so fairly tired now. It's hard to comment on things if they don't jump out to you. If things jump out to me, then you guys will know, because I won't hesitate to post them.
What's been jumping out to me the most is that Kooshie seems to be questioning the group a lot, as in #450, #403, for instance. I've done this a lot as scum, so I personally consider it scummy behavior. I however have never played with Kooshie before so I don't know if this is just her general behavior, clarification would be nice.
As expected Insomniac came back.
lio is posting way too much to make me consider him scummy for now, looks like he's a townie genuinely trying.
reread mail-mi for the heck of it, seems like his name is coming up a lot. his posts are REALLY short. Not sure if this is a tactic of trying to say as few things as possible to avoid slipping, or again if this is just his general behavior. I don't like it though. There's not much bulk to his posts, whether it's intentional or not.
obviously need to look closer at everyone else but there's all my opinions for the time being.
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ins, do you then disagree with robz in that lurking is what I'd do as scum?
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I think liopoil is town. Based solely on the fact that he came up with a scum team theory day 1. I'm pretty sure scum would like to deflect their wagon onto someone else, but not throw around conspiracy theories. Not day 1.
I don't really know if kooshie just misunderstand lio, but so far, her defense against a pretty solid (for day 1) case hasn't really been good. It hasn't even been a defense against the case, but something else.
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I think liopoil is town. Based solely on the fact that he came up with a scum team theory day 1. I'm pretty sure scum would like to deflect their wagon onto someone else, but not throw around conspiracy theories. Not day 1.
I don't really know if kooshie just misunderstand lio, but so far, her defense against a pretty solid (for day 1) case hasn't really been good. It hasn't even been a defense against the case, but something else.
Sound the Alarm!
Lipoli fan-boi alert!
"I think liopoil is town. Based solely on the fact that he came up with a scum team theory day 1" - lekkit
Someone names a random scum team on Day1 based on no actual evidence and that makes them town? Wow!
Just Wow.
My named scum team, so I get bonus town points as well:
Insomniac - Lurking + Lipoli case
Eevee - Lurking
Lekkit - Bad town read on Lipoli, jumping on the Kooshie bandwagon saying its a strong case
Lipoli - Bad case, shifting attention away from Insomniac who was lurking by claiming another player is lurking.
(if thats right I will laugh so hard, but obviously pulling a scum team day 1 based on so few posts and no evidence is crazy and the above shouldn't be taken seriously)
The case against Kooshie is purely that Kooshie has not contributed much.
Well, thats not a brilliant case, thats a lynch all lurkers case, and there are MUCH better candidates for that. Sure maybe Kooshie has had the ability to participate, but then so have the others.
This may sound like im being contrarty, I do think Lipoli is a bit scummy, but all the cases so far are weak, thatswhat happens on day 1. Anyone who has a 'strong' read on anyone I am suspicious of, there is ntohing to go on! (And also why No lynch is a bad idea, despite the numbers)
I think by his own admission Eevee is lurking, and we all know lurker eevee is scum eevee, he has even pulled the patented 'Robz defense' - which is 'Yeah I know my play is bad, if I was you I would think I am scummy'
Vote: eevee
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..., he has even pulled the patented 'Robz defense' - which is 'Yeah I know my play is bad, if I was you I would think I am scummy'
So has liopoil:
I can see it now: "oh look, Liopoil made a post count to make himself look better and frame the people who aren't his teammates! Let's lynch him!"
Evidence for your scum team claim!
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..., he has even pulled the patented 'Robz defense' - which is 'Yeah I know my play is bad, if I was you I would think I am scummy'
So has liopoil:
I can see it now: "oh look, Liopoil made a post count to make himself look better and frame the people who aren't his teammates! Let's lynch him!"
Evidence for your scum team claim!
Ahaha, Maybe Maybe
However, Lipoli's was done sarcastically, Eevees was done honestly.....
To Say It Again, my scum team should not be taken that seriously, all the cases on those people are so so weak, just to highlight the point that those aremy scummiest people D1 and thats all i got.
The only one I get a small townie vibe off is Yuma.
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Honestly, though, I have been trying to read Liopoil.
I do find him quite scummy, but in the end I wonder if it not just me suffering from the "be suspicious of the most active player syndrome" Yuma mentions.
I am not convinced he is town, but for now I oppose a Liopoil lynch.
He has been the most active poster and the one to contribute most in getting out new information. Town !Liopoil is thus valuable to keep in the game.
I am inclined to think scum !Liopoil will slip bad quite soon given his high post freqency. If his happens Liopoil should be easy to lynch at a later stage .
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@Ozle: I've never seen scum propose a scum-pair day 1. Have you?
The case on Kooshie, which people seem to misread, isn't that she hasn't been online. It's simply that when she has been, she hasn't really done anything.
In the Buffy game I was scum and was caught lurking. I came out of lurking, but didn't contribute anything to town, which was ultimately the reason why I was lynched. Kooshie has only been defending herself and stopped by saying that she has read, not trying to scumhunt. Which is what any town-aligned player should do.
The thing is, that I really recognise myself from the Buffy game in Kooshie.
Why do you think lio is scummier that Kooshie?
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ins, do you then disagree with robz in that lurking is what I'd do as scum?
With Robz?
I think you'd lurk as scum or be active as scum, I don't think you have a set meta for how you play scum.
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ins, do you then disagree with robz in that lurking is what I'd do as scum?
With Robz?
I think you'd lurk as scum or be active as scum, I don't think you have a set meta for how you play scum.
Robz thinks I wouldn't lurk as scum (I think he is right), ozle apparwntly thinks everyone knows I lurk as scum. Well, I don't think I'll prove my towniness with this particular self-meta argument either way.
I think what Lekkit is saying about kooshie makes sense too.
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ins, do you then disagree with robz in that lurking is what I'd do as scum?
With Robz?
I think you'd lurk as scum or be active as scum, I don't think you have a set meta for how you play scum.
Robz thinks I wouldn't lurk as scum (I think he is right), ozle apparwntly thinks everyone knows I lurk as scum. Well, I don't think I'll prove my towniness with this particular self-meta argument either way.
I think what Lekkit is saying about kooshie makes sense too.
Lekkit is just sheeping Lipoli though. And you are sheeping Lekkit.
The case is not strong.
One of the arguments is that kooshie has been busy defending, well thats a plus point in my book! When people are accused before they have hardly said anything they SHOULD post a defense to those things if they are town to help shift the attention on someone who might not be town!
Lekkit says that Kooshie has not posted any thing of substance, well the same applies to you Lekkit, I dont remember anything of substance you have said this game apart from agree with Lipoli.
You may have said something, but none of it has stuck in my mind.
I* think Lipoli is more wrong than scummy, the only thing that lipoli has done that is scummy is get unnecessarily worried about the Insomniac lynch, and that only becomes scummy if Insomniac is scummy.[
Robz thinks I wouldn't lurk as scum (I think he is right), ozle apparwntly thinks everyone knows I lurk as scum. Well, I don't think I'll prove my towniness with this particular self-meta argument either way.
ok, this has even more convinced me that Eevee is dodgy. You know you have lurked as scum, you actively toned down your activity as scum in my last game. I know you dont actively post as much as scum, and more importantly you know that I know that,
Good Enough for me to keep my vote on Eevee to be honest! Its not a massive thing, but its better than nothing at the moment.
Its day 1, im not adverse to lynching anyone to be honest, but I REALLY dislike people claiming they have good or strong cases based on such flimsy flimsy stuff.
Actually I take that back, I dont want to lynch Sudgy because he knows where a gold key is, and if he can buy that somehow then we will know he is town AND have cheaper access to Gold Rooms. Of course he might be scum, but its a null read on that for him, so the fact he may get us good stuff later makes him less of a good lynch candidate than anyone else.
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@Ozle: I've never seen scum propose a scum-pair day 1. Have you?
All the more reason for scum to do it? It's not really much of a defense. (Note I still think liopoil is town, but I don't think this is a good road to follow.)
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ins, do you then disagree with robz in that lurking is what I'd do as scum?
With Robz?
I think you'd lurk as scum or be active as scum, I don't think you have a set meta for how you play scum.
I want Insomniac to contribute more. I am as happy with an Insomniac lynch at this point as a Kooshie lynch.
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Vote Count 1.8
mail-mi (1) -- mcmcsalot
liopoil (3) -- yuma, raerae, ashersky
ashersky (1) -- Lekkit
raerae (1) -- Jimm
Kooshie (4) -- liopoil, Eevee, Jorbles, sudgy
sudgy (1) -- Insomniac
Eevee (1) -- Ozle
No Lynch (1) -- xeiron
Not Voting (3) -- sparky5856, Kooshie, mail-mi
With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch. Deadline is April 26th at 7:00 PM.
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@Oze: The only opinion Kooshie has offered on any other player is that she thinks lio is probably town. That's not much to go on. That's not really how you help town. You help town by expressing your reads, not telling town that you will reread, and then stay silent about it. And after that she talks about setting asoft deadline on wednesday. That's tomorrow. And she hasn't really helped anything.
I don't really agree with you about the defensive part. It's good to defend yourself, but if it's the only thing you do, it's not.
Actually, Vote: Kooshie
@Jorbles: I don't know how experienced lio is, but I haven't seen him around much earlier. That's a pretty fds meta intense bluff to pull. And if you haven't been around for a long time you wouldn't do that as scum. I think it's genuine.
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Hold it, when did I suggest a scumteam? I also do not think that suggesting a scumteam D1 is particularly towny. I mentioned scumteams a couple times in another dinner party as scum. I think it's silly to talk about scum teams until at least one scum is dead in this game.
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are you perhaps reffering to when I mentioned mail-mi and sudgy doing things at the same time? I think that's a bit too obvious if they were a scumteam. I actually think it's more likely that mail-mi is scum and sudgy town because mail-mi always does it second. seems like buddying or something.
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Hold it, when did I suggest a scumteam? I also do not think that suggesting a scumteam D1 is particularly towny. I mentioned scumteams a couple times in another dinner party as scum. I think it's silly to talk about scum teams until at least one scum is dead in this game.
I actually think calling scum teams early is towny kind of silly and stupid.
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I think mail-mi is scum! So do alot of people I feel just no votes? Not a whole lot is going on I feel.
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Hold it, when did I suggest a scumteam? I also do not think that suggesting a scumteam D1 is particularly towny. I mentioned scumteams a couple times in another dinner party as scum. I think it's silly to talk about scum teams until at least one scum is dead in this game.
I actually think calling scum teams early is towny kind of silly and stupid.
I call scum teams ALLLL the time, regardless of alignment. It is how I think and when I am scum I just pretend I'm town and go on my way.
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Well, I'm not, so there's that.
And, Kooshie has been kinda actilurking, which is probably worse than just lurking period, but its not enough at this stage to put my vote on her.
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mail-mi is my second choice for a lynch right now. He isn't lurking though, kooshie is. D1 lurking is particularly scummy, and LALL in general is a good idea. It gets much harder to lynch lurkers in later days, so it is better to do it early.
actilurking, if I understand the term right, is when you lurk on purpose? There is no reason for town to ever intentionally lurk. There are reasons for scum to lurk. I think it's always a huge scum tell throughout the whole game. Other cases aren't as strong D1.
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actilurking, if I understand the term right, is when you lurk on purpose? There is no reason for town to ever intentionally lurk. There are reasons for scum to lurk. I think it's always a huge scum tell throughout the whole game. Other cases aren't as strong D1.
I thought it was when you're posting (just high enough so you don't look bad on the post counts) but your posts don't give any information. That's what i thought actilurking meant. Or is it contentlurking?
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I'd define actilurking as being active as in there to answer easy theory questions or stuff like that, but still not posting any content. Basically someone with a high post count and but low participation.
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that might be what it is. That's just as bad though. why would town withold reads/content, and worry about being low on post counts?
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that might be what it is. That's just as bad though. why would town withold reads/content, and worry about being low on post counts?
Intentionally not posting is obviously scummy (or a power role trying to not look too towny, but meh).
Again though, people have stuff to do outside these games. It is very hard to play catch up if you don't have a lot of time.
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of course. that's why just lurking isn't incredibly scummy. But doing it on purpose is obvscum.
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So many people! I get them confused when I try to put into words what I think of them, but I'll try my best on who I can call to mind. Maybe do a few rereads, even.
Jimm: Contributing, giving opinions, no reads, really, but otherwise very towny. Actually, not many people have put in reads. So, Lekkit, why point at me?
Raerae: Not much of a read, kinda towny. Is Jimm's vote still on her? I can't remember the reason. At one point he voted her just because she said not to, if they were voting because of lurking.
Ashersky: Right now all I can think of is his tells. He's pretty much stopped doing that, but it might take a little before something more solid enters my mind.
Liopoil: ahhh, him. Don't like how he's tunneling and won't say for a second that I might possibly be town. How can he be so sure? Oh, yeah, if I get lynched and flip town, he's in a teensy bit of trouble. He seems surer than he should be, though.
Jorbles: town vibes, but a bit of sheeping might have been in there. Nothing serious, though.
Mail-mi: Sheeeeeeeeeeeepy.
Lekkit: also rather sheeping liopoil. When he said he like liopoil's case on me and defended it, he still didn't vote for me. He did soon after, but why not then?
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Was just looking at the vote count and wanted to ask this:
@xeiron, do you still think we should be no lynching? No one else seems to. Even if you really really believe it's the best idea, you should be willing to admit that no one else does.
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Yeah, I said the soft deadline should be tomorrow. That isn't really going to work, is it? Wednesday or Thursday, I guess. Hopefully we can come to a lynch by then.
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nono, soft deadline is tommorow at 8. we should try to meet it.
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I'm fine with a LALL vote: kooshie
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vote: kooshie
That's 7 and L-2. Good time for increased activity, I say.
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500th reply! ;D
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it says 501st on mine... not that it matters. but when people have referenced posts by saying "posts #356, 232, and 193" or something like that it has always been one off for me.
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I don't understand, Mail-mi and Ashersky. Am I not contributing more now?
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it says 501st on mine... not that it matters. but when people have referenced posts by saying "posts #356, 232, and 193" or something like that it has always been one off for me.
Weird. Says #500 for me.
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So many people! I get them confused when I try to put into words what I think of them, but I'll try my best on who I can call to mind. Maybe do a few rereads, even.
Jimm: Contributing, giving opinions, no reads, really, but otherwise very towny. Actually, not many people have put in reads. So, Lekkit, why point at me?
Raerae: Not much of a read, kinda towny. Is Jimm's vote still on her? I can't remember the reason. At one point he voted her just because she said not to, if they were voting because of lurking.
Ashersky: Right now all I can think of is his tells. He's pretty much stopped doing that, but it might take a little before something more solid enters my mind.
Liopoil: ahhh, him. Don't like how he's tunneling and won't say for a second that I might possibly be town. How can he be so sure? Oh, yeah, if I get lynched and flip town, he's in a teensy bit of trouble. He seems surer than he should be, though.
Jorbles: town vibes, but a bit of sheeping might have been in there. Nothing serious, though.
Mail-mi: Sheeeeeeeeeeeepy.
Lekkit: also rather sheeping liopoil. When he said he like liopoil's case on me and defended it, he still didn't vote for me. He did soon after, but why not then?
I think you are first time scum this game, based on posts like this. These are harder to do as scum, and this doesn't read like a town list.
I'm good with a Kooshie lynch.
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Kooshie, have you actually given reads yet?
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Whoops, just saw ash's quote of kooshie's reads. Ignore my previous post and I'll go read that more carefully.
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So many people! I get them confused when I try to put into words what I think of them, but I'll try my best on who I can call to mind. Maybe do a few rereads, even.
Jimm: Contributing, giving opinions, no reads, really, but otherwise very towny. Actually, not many people have put in reads. So, Lekkit, why point at me?
Raerae: Not much of a read, kinda towny. Is Jimm's vote still on her? I can't remember the reason. At one point he voted her just because she said not to, if they were voting because of lurking.
Ashersky: Right now all I can think of is his tells. He's pretty much stopped doing that, but it might take a little before something more solid enters my mind.
Liopoil: ahhh, him. Don't like how he's tunneling and won't say for a second that I might possibly be town. How can he be so sure? Oh, yeah, if I get lynched and flip town, he's in a teensy bit of trouble. He seems surer than he should be, though.
Jorbles: town vibes, but a bit of sheeping might have been in there. Nothing serious, though.
Mail-mi: Sheeeeeeeeeeeepy.
Lekkit: also rather sheeping liopoil. When he said he like liopoil's case on me and defended it, he still didn't vote for me. He did soon after, but why not then?
any reasons for the townreads on jimmmmm, raerae, and jorbles? you also mention ash, me, lekkit, and mail-mi, but don't say what you would guess their alignment is. I don't think your contributions have really increased...
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also, no scumreads.
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also, no scumreads.
This.
And not a complete list.
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she's also posting more in LOTR. ashersky, as mod knows her alignment there... I shouldn't comment on her there, but note that ashersky knows more about how she plays with various alignments...
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I have to agree with Ash and Lio, that list is shady. The other thing that's super off to me is the mail-mi read. Mail-mi is fitting his meta and I see no reason to point fingers at it yet. I am concerned that lio may be bussing but I'm less convinced of his scumitude now.
I'll Unvote for now.
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wait, you unvoted me for thinking kooshie is scum? and that's towny?
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I have to agree with Ash and Lio, that list is shady. The other thing that's super off to me is the mail-mi read. Mail-mi is fitting his meta and I see no reason to point fingers at it yet. I am concerned that lio may be bussing but I'm less convinced of his scumitude now.
I'll Unvote for now.
I said sheepy, not scummy. I know that he sheeps.
I also know that it's not a complete list, and no scum reads are within, and I didn't give alignment reads for everyone. It was probably because I felt both for them. I'll go and clarify.
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she's also posting more in LOTR. ashersky, as mod knows her alignment there... I shouldn't comment on her there, but note that ashersky knows more about how she plays with various alignments...
Yeah, you really shouldn't say that...
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wait, you unvoted me for thinking kooshie is scum? and that's towny?
No, I unvoted for the reasons both you and ashersky gave because they make sense. I didn't explain that well. Other's defenses of you have lessoned my scumread on you but I'm still not sold you're town.
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I have to agree with Ash and Lio, that list is shady. The other thing that's super off to me is the mail-mi read. Mail-mi is fitting his meta and I see no reason to point fingers at it yet. I am concerned that lio may be bussing but I'm less convinced of his scumitude now.
I'll Unvote for now.
I said sheepy, not scummy. I know that he sheeps.
I also know that it's not a complete list, and no scum reads are within, and I didn't give alignment reads for everyone. It was probably because I felt both for them. I'll go and clarify.
I can read quite well actually but sheepy is generally a scum trait so, yeah, some clarification would be fabulous. I'm sure we all look forward to it.
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So many people! I get them confused when I try to put into words what I think of them, but I'll try my best on who I can call to mind. Maybe do a few rereads, even.
Jimm: Contributing, giving opinions, no reads, really, but otherwise very towny. Actually, not many people have put in reads. So, Lekkit, why point at me?
Raerae: Not much of a read, kinda towny. Is Jimm's vote still on her? I can't remember the reason. At one point he voted her just because she said not to, if they were voting because of lurking.
Ashersky: Right now all I can think of is his tells. He's pretty much stopped doing that, but it might take a little before something more solid enters my mind. Because of this, he's a big null.
Liopoil: ahhh, him. Don't like how he's tunneling and won't say for a second that I might possibly be town. How can he be so sure? Oh, yeah, if I get lynched and flip town, he's in a teensy bit of trouble. He seems surer than he should be, though. I get town and scum feelings from him, but I guess overall... slightly scummy.
Jorbles: town vibes, but a bit of sheeping might have been in there. Nothing serious, though.
Mail-mi: Sheeeeeeeeeeeepy. Like usual. When he was town. So towny, but not strongly, as it could be an all-around trait for him
Lekkit: also rather sheeping liopoil. When he said he like liopoil's case on me and defended it, he still didn't vote for me. He did soon after, but why not then? Suspicious.
Underlined words are changes. Notice above(italicized)I say that I was doing some people that came to mind? So it wouldn't be full.
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Honestly, I don't think that liopoil's scum.
and then just now...
Liopoil:I get town and scum feelings from him, but I guess overall... slightly scummy.
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Honestly, I don't think that liopoil's scum.
and then just now...
Liopoil:I get town and scum feelings from him, but I guess overall... slightly scummy.
I thought I posted my change of feelings! I'll see if I can find them.
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I couldn't find it. I think that it might be there somewhere, I'm just too lazy to make a good search, or it was actually in my read of you. I think the first one, though I think it was similar to the read.
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Robz, can we have a vote count?
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it isn't there, I checked. why did you change your mind?
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So many people! I get them confused when I try to put into words what I think of them, but I'll try my best on who I can call to mind. Maybe do a few rereads, even.
Remind me of when you did reads at all?
We are approaching a soft deadline it looks like, and no one is even contesting Kooshie in terms of votes. I've had a relatively high scum score on her as well. There's been a lot of scummy-lurking going on but Kooshie's jumps out the most. And there's too much hedging and uncertainty in her arguments. I am finally feeling confident that she is a good D1 candidate for lynching. Unless anyone has any other convincing alternatives I am willing to place my vote. Anyone?
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So many people! I get them confused when I try to put into words what I think of them, but I'll try my best on who I can call to mind. Maybe do a few rereads, even.
Remind me of when you did reads at all?
I mean reading people's posts.
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it isn't there, I checked. why did you change your mind?
You were so intent on me. it seemed that you weren't considering that I might be town, or really looking at anyone else for scumminess. Gotta go now, will finish later.
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Vote Count 1.9
mail-mi (1) -- mcmcsalot
liopoil (1) -- yuma
raerae (1) -- Jimm
Kooshie (7) -- liopoil, Eevee, Jorbles, sudgy, Lekkit, mail-mi, ashersky {L-2}
sudgy (1) -- Insomniac
Eevee (1) -- Ozle
No Lynch (1) -- xeiron
Not Voting (3) -- sparky5856, Kooshie, raerae
With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch. Deadline is April 26th at 7:00 PM.
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Does anybody object to me putting Kooshie at L-1?
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I think a scum quickhammer would be insanity... if someone wishes to hammer they should just state intent to hammer and give peopple a last chance to say something... so I think it's fine.
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To me it looks like a done deal. (Although crazier things have happened.) I put my support behind this lynch though.
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Vote: Kooshie
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Sorry for not posting much, this is a big game and RMM7 has been grabbing my attention more. Anyway, I'm fine with lynching Kooshie (for reasons others and myself have stated before).
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As I've said. I'm fine with a Kooshie lynch.
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As I've said. I'm fine with a Kooshie lynch.
Sorry for not posting much, this is a big game and RMM7 has been grabbing my attention more. Anyway, I'm fine with lynching Kooshie (for reasons others and myself have stated before).
Well, I think we can infer that you're fine with it cuz youre Voting for her.
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I'm not really fine with it. I would much rather lynch mail-mi.
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I'm not really fine with it. I would much rather lynch mail-mi.
Recap your feelings on mail-mi for me. I've also had him at a high scum score, mainly for his lack of bulk in his posts. I most likely will not be considering him as a D1 lynch though.
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So many people! I get them confused when I try to put into words what I think of them, but I'll try my best on who I can call to mind. Maybe do a few rereads, even.
Remind me of when you did reads at all?
We are approaching a soft deadline it looks like, and no one is even contesting Kooshie in terms of votes. I've had a relatively high scum score on her as well. There's been a lot of scummy-lurking going on but Kooshie's jumps out the most. And there's too much hedging and uncertainty in her arguments. I am finally feeling confident that she is a good D1 candidate for lynching. Unless anyone has any other convincing alternatives I am willing to place my vote. Anyone?
This post and sparky's general attitude towards the impending kooshie lynch seem scummy to me. Looks like he is looking for a safe way to get this lynch through.
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I was not about to place anyone at L-1 without first gathering consensus. How would you feel if I had instead put Kooshie at L-1?
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Something about wanting to please as many people as possible just rubs me the wrong way. Like you're afraid of making waves.
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Something about wanting to please as many people as possible just rubs me the wrong way. Like you're afraid of making waves.
Coming from you that's kind of funny...
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Something about wanting to please as many people as possible just rubs me the wrong way. Like you're afraid of making waves.
I would blame that more on meta reasons. Mostly due to the fact that being scum umpteen times in a row in the past has made me overall more of a overly-cautious player. Blame random number generators for that.
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Vote Count 1.10
mail-mi (1) -- mcmcsalot
liopoil (1) -- yuma
raerae (1) -- Jimm
Kooshie (8) -- liopoil, Eevee, Jorbles, sudgy, Lekkit, mail-mi, ashersky, raerae {L-1}
sudgy (1) -- Insomniac
Eevee (1) -- Ozle
No Lynch (1) -- xeiron
Not Voting (3) -- sparky5856, Kooshie
With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch. Deadline is April 26th at 7:00 PM.
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Stating intent to hammer. Reasons coming once work slows down, shouldn't take too much Time
Kooshie, please share any information you have that would help town if you are town.
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ozle playing this seriously and well feels like a bit of a scum tell to me. he told me beforehand he was contemplating which hilarious persona to introduce us here, could it be that his scumbuddies convinced him to take the serious approach?
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ozle playing this seriously and well feels like a bit of a scum tell to me. he told me beforehand he was contemplating which hilarious persona to introduce us here, could it be that his scumbuddies convinced him to take the serious approach?
Haha, so I play a game well, therefore i must be scum? What is this latest Fashion with discouraging people to play well!
You trying to encourage goofing about?
Is this because I pegged you as scum early?
Pretty sure I played my first proper Mafia game seriously, and the second proper game in character (which I assume was one of my hilarious persona's). I was scum in both those games so 50/50 I dont think that tells you a lot. All the others have been Bastard Games pretty much, and I even played those pretty seriously and got annoyed at people not!
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Ok, reasons why I am stating intent to the Hammer to Fall
What are our chances of catching scum Day1? Its pretty random.
Its Day 1, there are no good cases, there are no good leads, there have been no scumslips. The only person I dont want to lynch at the moment is sudgy, purely because im hoping he can get that key for town.
I dont have a town read on Kooshie, same as I pretty much dont have a town read on most people so it might as well be Kooshie.
The Kooshie case is weak, realllly weak, but its the best case we have (as no one seems to be looking at Eevee with me!) and I seriously doubt we are going to find abetter one on Day1. If this was Day2 then it would be majorly different.
Primarily, lets get this day done and then we can have longer days when we have actual information
Kooshie, if you have something to share that would help the town, now is the time.....
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I'm good with Ozle's reasons.
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Was just looking at the vote count and wanted to ask this:
@xeiron, do you still think we should be no lynching? No one else seems to. Even if you really really believe it's the best idea, you should be willing to admit that no one else does.
I still think no lynch is a valid option, but yes, I am willing to admit that no one else thinks so.
The case against Kooshie is as strong as any, I guess.
I therfore vote: Kooshie
to steal the hammer from Ozle.
Sorry if that offends people.
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Was just looking at the vote count and wanted to ask this:
@xeiron, do you still think we should be no lynching? No one else seems to. Even if you really really believe it's the best idea, you should be willing to admit that no one else does.
I still think no lynch is a valid option, but yes, I am willing to admit that no one else thinks so.
The case against Kooshie is as strong as any, I guess.
I therfore vote: Kooshie
to steal the hammer from Ozle.
Sorry if that offends people.
That was scummy, man. Town lets Kooshie get in a last word.
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Was just looking at the vote count and wanted to ask this:
@xeiron, do you still think we should be no lynching? No one else seems to. Even if you really really believe it's the best idea, you should be willing to admit that no one else does.
I still think no lynch is a valid option, but yes, I am willing to admit that no one else thinks so.
The case against Kooshie is as strong as any, I guess.
I therfore vote: Kooshie
to steal the hammer from Ozle.
Sorry if that offends people.
Yes, that offends me greatly.
There was a very good reason why I stated intent and didnt actually do it yet......
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There was also a specific reason I wanted to Hammer as well that now I cannot test!
Very Suspicious Minds of you now!
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Hopefully Kooshie gets up earlier than Robz and shares information!
Do we know what time they both Rise and Shine and get up?
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Hopefully Kooshie gets up earlier than Robz and shares information!
Do we know what time they both Rise and Shine and get up?
Robz is east coast.
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Woahwoahwoah. If ozle is town, then he has the same PM as I, and my PM says NOTHING about wanting to hammer. maybe he thinks he'lll get coins for it? might also be why xeiron hammered... anyway, xeiron's hammer is definatly scummy.
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Woahwoahwoah. If ozle is town, then he has the same PM as I, and my PM says NOTHING about wanting to hammer. maybe he thinks he'lll get coins for it? might also be why xeiron hammered... anyway, xeiron's hammer is definatly scummy.
*sigh*
remember the conversation we had earlier about now giving away stuff that could give Mafia hints as to what we were doing and the reasons for it....your doing it again. Speculating on why I wanted to Hammer is the same sort of thing.
If Xeiron is scum, you have now given him the perfect excuse to claim why he hammered out of the blue, (something he may not have already had before he had a chance to talk to his scumbuddies)...why would you do that?!
Obviously my reasons have nothing to do with my PM, the PM's are all laid out in the beginning
Lets wait until tomorrow to talk about it, this game has Only Just Begun
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It's hardly giving away if it's something anyone could come with, and there will be 3 or 4 scum talking to each other tonight... I'm sure they could think of it by themself.
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It's hardly giving away if it's something anyone could come with, and there will be 3 or 4 scum talking to each other tonight... I'm sure they could think of it by themself.
Except we may have been able to get the reason out of him BEFORE he got to talk to his scum buddies tonight (Sure that a scum team would have came to the same thoughts as you, but one man on his own might not of if put under pressure) Anyone COULD come up with it, he may have come up with a different reason.....Robz isnt around, we may have a few hours of twilight left, although it is a bit of a Ghost Town around this time of day!
Although, I notice Kooshie is around now....hopefully he can come on and give us some good last words
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Nevermind, its done now, lets Move on Up to the next thing.
Xeiron is online
Kooshie is online
Hopefully we can hear from the both before Robzzzzz wakes up.
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Ugh very scummy on xeiron hammering befor people say anything and hammering out of the blue(no posts previously) and a vote change in that same post my vote will be on him tomorrow. Also still don't think kooshie is scum sorry I didn't argue harder. But his wagon will give us a lot tomorrow.
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Can I unvote since xeiron hammered, or are we locked in twilight? And yeah, that was pretty scummy. Hurry kooshie, say something! Say anything!!!!
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just coming in to start on my reread and we reached a lynch...
however, before this gets locked... if I die tonight my advice is to not just jump into an immediate xeirion lynch tomorrow. hammering like that wasn't pro-town, but it doesn't automatically make him scum either. I could easily see a newbie scum doing it. Goodness, I have derp-hammered as town before.
I do think we need to hear from him before the thread is locked... and lio. DON'T TALK ABOUT THAT STUFF EVER! I completely agree with Ozle. There are always going to be potential ramifications to the things you say about claiming, setup info, etc that you can't think about. It is just better to not say anything unless you are in the process of outing scum.
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Can I unvote since xeiron hammered, or are we locked in twilight? And yeah, that was pretty scummy. Hurry kooshie, say something! Say anything!!!!
Nope, too late. We are now locked into twilight, nothing can change it now.
Xeiron and Kooshie have both been online and not said anything. That only heightens my Superstitions on them to be honest.
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just coming in to start on my reread and we reached a lynch...
however, before this gets locked... if I die tonight my advice is to not just jump into an immediate xeirion lynch tomorrow. hammering like that wasn't pro-town, but it doesn't automatically make him scum either. I could easily see a newbie scum doing it. Goodness, I have derp-hammered as town before.
I do think we need to hear from him before the thread is locked... and lio. DON'T TALK ABOUT THAT STUFF EVER! I completely agree with Ozle. There are always going to be potential ramifications to the things you say about claiming, setup info, etc that you can't think about. It is just better to not say anything unless you are in the process of outing scum.
Suspect post from Yuma, including a slip.
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just coming in to start on my reread and we reached a lynch...
however, before this gets locked... if I die tonight my advice is to not just jump into an immediate xeirion lynch tomorrow. hammering like that wasn't pro-town, but it doesn't automatically make him scum either. I could easily see a newbie scum doing it. Goodness, I have derp-hammered as town before.
I do think we need to hear from him before the thread is locked... and lio. DON'T TALK ABOUT THAT STUFF EVER! I completely agree with Ozle. There are always going to be potential ramifications to the things you say about claiming, setup info, etc that you can't think about. It is just better to not say anything unless you are in the process of outing scum.
Suspect post from Yuma, including a slip.
sorry, that should say newbie scum or newbie town.
But the point remains, come tomorrow a derp-hammer is not sufficient enough evidence to lynch someone. Combining it with other shady behavior--and not commenting about this while we are still in twilight sure is one of them--could be sufficient for a lynch.
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I'm a bit suspicious of Ozle. I guess part of it is somewhat OMGUS:y, but also the fact that he first accused me for saying that the case on Kooshie was pretty good for day 1. Then he later said that it was the best case of the day. He has been playing a pretty pro-town game, though. I would definately keep him around.
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I'm a bit suspicious of Ozle. I guess part of it is somewhat OMGUS:y, but also the fact that he first accused me for saying that the case on Kooshie was pretty good for day 1. Then he later said that it was the best case of the day. He has been playing a pretty pro-town game, though. I would definately keep him around.
I dont see how those two statements are mutually exclusive.
The best case of the day is still weak.
Unless you can show me a stronger case?
The case on Kooshie is NOT a strong or good case, especially not for the reasons you all gave.
However, Day 1 cases are always weak, i just didnt want them misrepresented in future days as a 'good' case.
However, the long it goes on without Kooshie posting, the more likely it looks that we found scum anyways, so thats Cool for Cats!
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I've never seen a day 1 case that is as strong as a later day case. I'm sure there has been, but I haven't seen one. I'm pretty sure I said I thought it was pretty strong for a day 1 case, which I stand by. If I didn't, that's what I meant. I do see how there is a difference between "the strongest case of day 1" and "a strong case for day 1", though.
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Just caught up...what the crap was that Xeiron, this is a large game, you don't just hammer someone you let everyone get in some last words before dropping a hammer like Ozle did.
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For some reason, everytime someone does something like that I get a word that CF used popping up in my head. Jackwang.
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I've never seen a day 1 case that is as strong as a later day case. I'm sure there has been, but I haven't seen one. I'm pretty sure I said I thought it was pretty strong for a day 1 case, which I stand by. If I didn't, that's what I meant. I do see how there is a difference between "the strongest case of day 1" and "a strong case for day 1", though.
Really?
You really dont see the difference?
I am the smartest person in my house
Does that make me smart?
No, it makes me smarter than the Fish.
And still a bit of an idiot.
Calling a weak case the best case of the day is not the same as having a good case.
Lynching someone on this case IS acceptable for D1 in my view, but in no way should it be countered a strong case, you get no 'points' from it in my book when looking back on it and I was making that clear.
Your case on Kooshie is that not enough opinions and defensive. Fine.
What have you contributed today, I dont really remember anything you have contributed apart from sheeping lipolis case and then being defensive when I called you out on it?
(and its not just you of course, You Are Not Alone, there are others as well...)
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This is a long twilight. Anyway, xeiron, that was a bit suspicious. For future games, don't do that (if you couldn't tell by what other people said already).
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Whoa, that was quick. I'm okay with the lynch, but not with how xeiron quickhammered that.
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Everyone always likes to hammer when the Bank Manager is still asleep! He has a very late-night oriented schedule, you know.
THREAD LOCKED.
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Vote Count 1.11
mail-mi (1) -- mcmcsalot
liopoil (1) -- yuma
raerae (1) -- Jimm
Kooshie (9) -- liopoil, Eevee, Jorbles, sudgy, Lekkit, mail-mi, ashersky, raerae, xeiron
sudgy (1) -- Insomniac
Eevee (1) -- Ozle
Not Voting (2) -- sparky5856, Kooshie
Good heavens, a lynch! Welll, you all know best, I hope. Bank personnel are escorting her to the Jail as we speak. And look, a confession! My word, it appears that Kooshie was a Mafia-aligned Mountebank! Truly, you are making this look easy.
Have fun wandering the Bank tonight! I will be updating everyone's coin totals after this, so while you may feel free to send me moves, you may wish to wait until until I correct your coin totals on your map. Also, remember that the move/buy phase of night will end after some number of orders--you won' know how many (last night it was 3). Tonight, and all nights henceforth, there will be another phase after move/buy ends, where scum will send in their kill, use any special moves they have (i.e., Pillage), and everyone can use items (some items take effect at specific times, so you cant use those).
NIGHT 1 START!
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Coin totals have now been updated. Whatever it says on your map is the number of coins you have.
Please send me your Night 1 moves. You can send me as many moves at once as you want; I will process them until I come to an order that relies on some other player's moves (like, trying to buy an item that another player could also buy), or until you exceed the unknown number of total moves this night will have. If I haven't heard from you in 24 hours, I assume you are doing nothing. But it would be nice if you told me that instead!
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Good morning! Did you all have very enriching nights? I certainly hope so!
Erm, it seems that one of you is missing. Oh dear, he must have been taken to one of the Captured Players Vaults! How dreadful...
xeiron, the Town-aligned Coppersmith, is no longer with us. If he could be here with us now, I am sure he would tell you to find the other three scum. He believes in you!
DAY 2 START -- THREAD UNLOCKED
Note that your coin totals were again updated. If anyone is unsure of how many coins they lost/gained, PM me and maybe I will tell you.
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Nice I can put this right at the top of day2
Day1 post count
1. Jimm: 35
2. raerae: 26
3. yuma: 29
4. ashersky: 42
5. Insomniac: 10
6. Eevee: 21
7. Jorbles: 15
8. liopoil: 92
9. sparky5856: 26
10. mcmcsalot: 32
11. sudgy: 33
12. xeiron: 13
13. Lekkit: 16
14. Ozle: 65
15. Kooshie: 38
16. mail-mi: 39
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That seemed really quick. Well done everyone for the Kooshie lynch, sorry for my lurkiness. xerion seems a strange choice for the night kill.
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xeiron*
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I see I wasn't the only one who made sure to make a D1 post count overnight :P
any ideas why xeiron died? it makes no sense to me whatsoever.
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I was thinking it was more likely that one of me, ozle, yuma, or ash would be the NK. Well, since I'm town, I guess those three must be the rest of the scumteam! ;)
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I was thinking it was more likely that one of me, ozle, yuma, or ash would be the NK. Well, since I'm town, I guess those three must be the rest of the scumteam! ;)
Game solved?
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this is just speculation but from what I understand, mafia kills are somewhat dependent on location in the bank yes? So maybe xeiron made the most sense from that perspecitve... he had somethign they wanted and somehow knew that... I don't know. And don't want to go into speculating too much except to say that there are intangibles that we don't know about.
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I was thinking it was more likely that one of me, ozle, yuma, or ash would be the NK. Well, since I'm town, I guess those three must be the rest of the scumteam! ;)
Game solved?
no.
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I was thinking it was more likely that one of me, ozle, yuma, or ash would be the NK. Well, since I'm town, I guess those three must be the rest of the scumteam! ;)
If you're seriously scum I will laugh.
Not many opposed the Kooshie lynch. mcmc sticks out in my mind for opposing it but he was against it even when it was inevitable. I'm inclined to think there were bussers on the wagon since the wagon gained steam quickly.
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one thing I want to take a serious look at is where people fell in the other day1 mafia lynches of grujah and lekkit in previous games... I'll go pull up that info and post it and see what we can correlate to this game.
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yeah, I really doubt that there isn't scum on-wagon. I also think there is probably at least one scum off wagon.
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So, exactly one town member got pillaged last night right? That player knows they got pillaged, because their money total just went down (robz said he just updated coin totals). However, it is likely possible to lose money in a different way. If it wasn't possible then the pillaged player could just claim to have been pillaged and become IC, right?
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Vote Count 2.1
Not Voting (14) -- sparky5856, mcmcsalot, yuma, Jimm, liopoil, Eevee, Jorbles, sudgy, Lekkit, mail-mi, ashersky, raerae, Insomniac, Ozle
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. You begin eating into your banked time at 8:00 PM on Sunday.
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but, like someone will likely chime in and say, (yuma, ozle?) all sorts of wacky stuff could have happened last night which makes it a bad idea...
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Grujah - Glooble, ehunt, yuma, watno, Galzria, eHalcyon, Cuzz, Eevee, Morgrim7, ftl, jotheonah, Axxle
off wagon: O, theorel Captain_Frisk, TheMunch (these last two were SK and don't really count).
Lekkit (7): cayvie, Cuzz, shraeye, Eevee, raerae, Jimmmmm, Galzria
off wagon: Captain_Frisk
I hadn't realized that cayvie bussed so hard in MXVII! But I think the point remains that the best place to look is off wagon. It is especially good for myself because I can rule myself out. Now we aren't guaranteed to find all the scum there, but I think there is a good chance that some scum is there and for all intents and purposes I will only be considering an off-wagon lynch today, baring some sort of crazy investigation coming out or something.
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but, like someone will likely chime in and say, (yuma, ozle?) all sorts of wacky stuff could have happened last night which makes it a bad idea...
WACKY!!!
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A few people off-wagon said they weren't opposed to the kooshie lynch and were willing to hammer if needed...
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- I almost posted this in the tabula rasa thread...
mail-mi (1) -- mcmcsalot
liopoil (1) -- yuma
raerae (1) -- Jimm
Kooshie (9) -- liopoil, Eevee, Jorbles, sudgy, Lekkit, mail-mi, ashersky, raerae, xeiron
sudgy (1) -- Insomniac
Eevee (1) -- Ozle
Not Voting (2) -- sparky5856, Kooshie
so the to take a very close look at list includes: mcmc, Jimmmm, Insomniac, Ozle and sparky and yuma (if you aren't me). Now I remember and we will want to verify this... but I remember both Ozle and sparky being very willing to vote kooshie and only not doing so because wanting to give town a chance to talk more.
But the point remains that they didn't vote before either (by that before Kooshie was at L-1 or L-2, etc).
I would suggest everyone that is inclined to do a reread of these players specifically and see what can be found.
After that I think it is best to look at the late wagon joiners (raerae, ash and mail-mi)
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A few people off-wagon said they weren't opposed to the kooshie lynch and were willing to hammer if needed...
Well then we could just look at those who were opposed. Requires rereading, which I need to do.
Yeah, xerion came in and swiped my opportunity to vote... lol
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mcmc was vocally against the lynch even when it seemed like it was obviously going to happen. I think this is actually quite towny.
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Call me dumb here yuma, (seriously, it's been that kind of day), but why compare this to Buffy?
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so the to take a very close look at list includes: mcmc, Jimmmm, Insomniac, Ozle and sparky and yuma (if you aren't me). Now I remember and we will want to verify this... but I remember both Ozle and sparky being very willing to vote kooshie and only not doing so because wanting to give town a chance to talk more.
I agree with lio, the fact that he kept being opposed to the lynch strikes me as a towny move. His situation to be opposed to the lynch was odd.
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Call me dumb here yuma, (seriously, it's been that kind of day), but why compare this to Buffy?
I will not call you dumb!
Both had day1 lynch of mafia. So did the other game I reference. It was an attempt to see where scum fell in line when it came for voting or not voting for their partner. I thought that cayvie had been a late joiner of the Lekkit lynch that day, but I was wrong. She was very very early.
I tend to think that scum will rarely push for a lynch of their own partner day1 as the first voter, but cayvie appears to have done so. Or did she join it late as others unvoted and then revoted? I can't remember.
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Scum quick hammer to keep from more info getting out is a possibility.
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Call me dumb here yuma, (seriously, it's been that kind of day), but why compare this to Buffy?
I will not call you dumb!
Both had day1 lynch of mafia. So did the other game I reference. It was an attempt to see where scum fell in line when it came for voting or not voting for their partner. I thought that cayvie had been a late joiner of the Lekkit lynch that day, but I was wrong. She was very very early.
I tend to think that scum will rarely push for a lynch of their own partner day1 as the first voter, but cayvie appears to have done so. Or did she join it late as others unvoted and then revoted? I can't remember.
Ahhhhhhhhh, dang you have a good memory. I can't remember exactly where she was on Lekkit but, without rereading, I'd guess she early voted for him and got stuck with it when the wagon gained speed too fast.
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Scum quick hammer to keep from more info getting out is a possibility.
Our scummy town quick hammerer is dead...?
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ashersky has a good point. Any scum that was off-wagon would have to at least considered quickhammering even before xeiron...
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Scum quick hammer to keep from more info getting out is a possibility.
except our quick hammerer is dead.
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Scum quick hammer to keep from more info getting out is a possibility.
except our quick hammerer is dead.
Terrible scum play, that.
I think we're looking for more newbie scum.
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I re-read jimmmmm and insom (they don't have too many posts) and skimmed through yuma, ozle, mcmc, and sparky for views on kooshie. So of these six people who were off-wagon, from towniest to scummiest:
mcmc, ozle, yuma, insom, sparky, jimmmmm
mcmc is actually my biggest town read right now. like I said before, he was the only one actually against the kooshie lynch. His stance of claiming stuff seemed odd as scum, and most of all, his play seems different from DS9 and another dinner party, both of which he was scum in, and one of which I was scum with him in. I remember realizing right around his lynch in DS9 that his play was very similar to in another dinner party. It's different here.
sparky is on the scummy side mainly for this post:
We are approaching a soft deadline it looks like, and no one is even contesting Kooshie in terms of votes. I've had a relatively high scum score on her as well. There's been a lot of scummy-lurking going on but Kooshie's jumps out the most. And there's too much hedging and uncertainty in her arguments. I am finally feeling confident that she is a good D1 candidate for lynching. Unless anyone has any other convincing alternatives I am willing to place my vote. Anyone?
The thing at the end is pretty much asking someone else to do the deflection so that he doesn't look scummy if he does it. He's also buddied me a ton...
Jimmmmm never really commented on kooshie I think. his posts are really short too. him or insom is probably the best lurker lynch right now.
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I think we should definitely look at the non-wagoners. Day 1 mafia lynch gives us some really good intel. Definitely worth rereading.
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Sparky definitely looks bad from that post.
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I had some suspicion on sparky already yesterday. I'll reread him when I have better access.
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I can't say I agree with that. Announcing intent always seems like a townie thing to do to me.
Also, ash, didn't you just say we're looking for newbie scum? Hasn't sparky been scum a bajillion times?
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Bajillion and one, actually.
Yeah guys, I didn't think there would be anything wrong with stating intent for L-1. I didn't want to set up a scum quickhammer, regardless of the scuminess of Kooshie.
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In fact since I've been scum so many times I'm an easy target for scum to pick on once I get heat. It's how I felt in Dsell's cat game, the only reason I survived to the endgame was because it was apparently impossible for me to die.
So, my take, Insomniac is the scummiest of those off-wagon.
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In fact since I've been scum so many times I'm an easy target for scum to pick on once I get heat. It's how I felt in Dsell's cat game, the only reason I survived to the endgame was because it was apparently impossible for me to die.
So, my take, Insomniac is the scummiest of those off-wagon.
you were scum with insom before in XII. Would he lurk as heavy as he has in this game? He certainly didn't lurk there at all.
Eevee same question to you. Did he lurk in Ozle's game? That game is a slightly fuzzy memory for me even though it was so recent.
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In fact since I've been scum so many times I'm an easy target for scum to pick on once I get heat. It's how I felt in Dsell's cat game, the only reason I survived to the endgame was because it was apparently impossible for me to die.
So, my take, Insomniac is the scummiest of those off-wagon.
you were scum with insom before in XII. Would he lurk as heavy as he has in this game? He certainly didn't lurk there at all.
It's intriguing. Particularly because right now he is THE lurker of the game.
There's just a feeling where scum try not to repeat past behaviors, but this is the opposite extreme... it's peculiar.
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In fact since I've been scum so many times I'm an easy target for scum to pick on once I get heat. It's how I felt in Dsell's cat game, the only reason I survived to the endgame was because it was apparently impossible for me to die.
So, my take, Insomniac is the scummiest of those off-wagon.
you were scum with insom before in XII. Would he lurk as heavy as he has in this game? He certainly didn't lurk there at all.
It's intriguing. Particularly because right now he is THE lurker of the game.
There's just a feeling where scum try not to repeat past behaviors, but this is the opposite extreme... it's peculiar.
sure I can see that scum will want to not replicate behavior. But we tend to see it in the opposite direction just because everyone knows that hardcore lurking is going to bring about intense scrutiny, something that scum does not want.
I am not saying insomniac isn't scummy for doing so, he is to an extent. It is like you say... intriguing.
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And it's not only that... he voted for ashersky with his second post before leaving for the weekend; leaving your vote on someone while not contributing is extra scummy at least to me. He only mentioned kooshie once and that he had no strong opinions on her.
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Ins is not above hc lurking as scum. He is very bold, certainly isnt afraid of getting caught.
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Is Insomniac usually this lurky? I'm kind of suspicious of him from that, and Jimmmmm too. He wasn't lurky in my earlier game with him (even though he was only alive D1)
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He was almost this lurky in Masons and Monks, where he was town. Something to remember is that this is a pretty huge game. Lurking will both be easier to fall into and may not be punished as hard as in smaller games.
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He was a bit lurky in my game after the whole eevee/Insom fake fight, and scum.
But you could see from the planning that he is smart enough to take a different tactic each game.
I sort of think myself on the Kooshie wagon to be honest, i stated intent to Hammer and would have done so after giving Kooshie a chance to speak, only the bad quickhammer stopped that.
I also think we are looking for newbie scum here because of the Xeiron, or a couple of newbie scum and someone who isnt so active to help them out.
Did anybody vote for Kooshie and then unvote again once it looked like gathering steam?
Because Its Like That what scum would do, its where I would look first.
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Ok, so I may have possibly found a way to clear one person as a townie, but I dont know which person. And to give the whole story would ruin it. (this is one of the reasons I was so against Map sharing yesterday)
But i need to know if anybody started off in a hallway.
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This night or as spawning position?
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This night or as spawning position?
The Original spawning place.
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Then I'm not the one you are looking for.
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I did not spawn in a hallway.
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You will get nothing from me when it comes to the map.
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You will get nothing from me when it comes to the map.
That's cool, i just have the potential to clear someone as town. No idea who it is yet but relies on the follow up question after this one about whether everybody started In a Room or not.
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Scum quick hammer to keep from more info getting out is a possibility.
I thought this, but now xeiron is dead. (Sorry I'm late to the party, but now this is my only game as a living player so I'll pay more attention)
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In fact since I've been scum so many times I'm an easy target for scum to pick on once I get heat. It's how I felt in Dsell's cat game, the only reason I survived to the endgame was because it was apparently impossible for me to die.
Grumble, this game was very frustrating for me. Especially when shraeye was able to ignore his reads and just use metagame for his analysis.
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And it's not only that... he voted for ashersky with his second post before leaving for the weekend; leaving your vote on someone while not contributing is extra scummy at least to me. He only mentioned kooshie once and that he had no strong opinions on her.
Not that he really contributed enough to express strong opinions about anyone, but there's some merit to this argument. The vote placing while not contributing is scummy.
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You will get nothing from me when it comes to the map.
Ditto. I still think map sharing is dangerous.
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mcmc, Jimmmm, Insomniac, Ozle and sparky and yuma
Of the off-wagon candidates (we're going with that? just want to make sure, but any way to narrow it down is helpful as it's hard to grok how many players there are in this game) I would say my least favourite lynches are yuma and mcmc. Jimmmm I can only vaguely recall, so I should probably reread him. Ozle and sparky are both smart enough that they could be scum and hide it pretty well (Ozle's claim of being able to clear someone may in fact be a gambit to set himself up as a town player when he is not. sparky's actions near the lynch yesterday strike me as towny though it is a little scummy to state that you are willing to lynch, but then not do it no matter the circumstances. late to a good wagon is always going to look a little scummy even if it's done with the best intentions.) Insomniac is really scummy, his lurkiness his disappearance around deadline, his vote parking, but would Insomniac really play that scummily as scum? Well he has been around a lot less lately so he might have picked a strategy to try and match that. I don't put it past him, but I don't know that this definitely indicates he's scum.
Although lynching him, worst case scenario we lynch a town player who isn't trying very hard. I guess I talked myself into it. Vote: Insomniac.
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I'm a little bit more suspicious of Jimmmmm than Insomniac at the moment, but that might be because I've played with Jimmmmm before.
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Hey guys sorry for my lurking, I have had exams this week, two more next week monday and tuesday but with the weekend here I will begin contributing more. I have to go soon so I don't know how much analysis I will get down right now(I'm exhausted from power analyzing in another game) but expect some posts later today.
also map stuff be cray
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I'm a little bit more suspicious of Jimmmmm than Insomniac at the moment, but that might be because I've played with Jimmmmm before.
Yeah, I have no memory of what Jimmmm did D1, but I'm going to reread him at some point. Will form an opinion then.
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Ok so yea I'm lurky but as I've said before this is my last mafia game for a long while, and I've been lurky in non mafia games too. Anyways meta aside, do any of you think I would let a team I'm scum with kill Xeiron, I mean really? No, no, no, Scum Insom would have let Xeiron lived and DEFENDED him the next day. Yes I play every game different and am not above lurking as scum (Ozle's game, when I failed to convince people to lynch scum!Eevee) or lurking as town (Masons and Monks). But I'm town here.
Ozle, I did not start in a hallway.
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Your defense makes me even more suspicious... Vote: Insomniac
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Your defense makes me even more suspicious... Vote: Insomniac
Cool beans. I still think you're scum but I will have to look at the hard information a bit more before I actually decide on anything
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Your defense makes me even more suspicious... Vote: Insomniac
Cool beans. I still think you're scum but I will have to look at the hard information a bit more before I actually decide on anything
?? When did you think I was scum? I never saw you saying something like that before.
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Your defense makes me even more suspicious... Vote: Insomniac
Cool beans. I still think you're scum but I will have to look at the hard information a bit more before I actually decide on anything
?? When did you think I was scum? I never saw you saying something like that before.
Yes, please back this up more.
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Go read one of my later posts on day 1, oh your too lazy I'll get that for you
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Alright. Weekend over. I'm back and caught up. Am now firmly against claimin unless you have something worth claiming.
Re: Insom votes. I'm actually a bit torn on this one. I 100% like Ozle's vote. That one is legit. Ash and sudgy just posted a vote for me without backing it up because I was an easy vote at the time. Now here's my issue. I already found ash scummy. But sudgy? That guy decided to defend his vote on me after the fact which is way more scummy than I feel about ash right now so I will be putting my vote there for now. Vote: sudgy
I have no strong feelings on liopoli vs kooshie right now as I don't have a ton of back data on these players.
Eevee lurking is probably the most bothersome to me of their post CPU gets. Though I put far less into that stat since I have lurked as town and its just because I'm busy in RL (talking about masons vs monks right now)
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Maybe if you guys took the time to read my posts you wouldn't think I wasn't contributing but apparently even when I do come here people don't read my god damn posts.
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Is this how Insomniac usually plays?
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Maybe if you guys took the time to read my posts you wouldn't think I wasn't contributing but apparently even when I do come here people don't read my god damn posts.
It's a big game. Sorry I forgot about that. You are right, that you have contributed, but you've also been crazy lurky.
I can see why you would suspect sudgy based on your original case though. In fact sudgy's vote on you today is kinda like his vote on you yesterday. He waited for someone else to lead the way with a vote (me this time, Ozle last time) before placing it without adding much to it... I could see scum looking for an easy case to leap on, but wait to see if someone else thinks it is a good case so they can support it.
What else has sudgy done since then? I don't have time to look right now, but will later today if no one else has.
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Okay here's the problem with sudgy being scum, if he was scum why would he reveal that he knew where the gold key was?
(Aside from that he has been pretty sheepy in his voting.)
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What else has sudgy done since then? I don't have time to look right now, but will later today if no one else has.
Also I clearly took some time to look into sudgy even if though I probably shouldn't have (for work reasons). Really disappearing for a bit now.
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Maybe if you guys took the time to read my posts you wouldn't think I wasn't contributing but apparently even when I do come here people don't read my god damn posts.
This is town Insomniac, or scum insomniac attempting to replicate town Insomniac, but my best guess is that it is town Insomniac.
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Okay here's the problem with sudgy being scum, if he was scum why would he reveal that he knew where the gold key was?
(Aside from that he has been pretty sheepy in his voting.)
that does nothing for me to make me think he is town.
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Maybe if you guys took the time to read my posts you wouldn't think I wasn't contributing but apparently even when I do come here people don't read my god damn posts.
This is town Insomniac, or scum insomniac attempting to replicate town Insomniac, but my best guess is that it is town Insomniac.
PPE: Warnings, this is a bit of a ramble and was just my thought process as I was typing it)
Hmm, see I think a town Insomniac would just Let it Be, he is usually quite chilled and relaxed. whereas fake angry Insomniac is much more scummy.
I also think his claim of 'Wouldn't let his scum team lynch Xeiron' isnt really much cop, especially if he was not around as much and was distracted by all the moving about on the map. I can quite easily see there being 2 newbies in the scum team and a very busy veteran, (Eevee or Insomniac)
What I did find interesting when I went back over the day, was that NONE of the people that voted for Kooshie Unvoted at any stage. Which is unusual and I thought we would be able to find scum there.
This is at odds with my newbie scum theory above, because I dont think newbie scum would do that, bus partner all the way. And the people OFF the wagon are not newbie scum. So its possible that we have newbie scum AND a vet who wasn't around much during the night phase.
Off Wagon: mcmc, Jimmmm, Insomniac, sparky and yuma
MCMC has been quite a bit of scum lately, we all know how good Insomniac is. Yuma obvious is not new. Sparky I remmeber has been quite a bit.
Which leaves me most suspicious of Jimmm out of that bunch.
Right, off out now and visiting parents all of tomorrow followed by board game nights. Will check back in on mobile at times. But I think I should probably give my reads as i wont be about for a while.
So to summarise:
1. Jimm - Scum lean for being off lynch all day (and possibly newbie scum?). Could be diff timezone to other scum team.
2. raerae - Town lean for Day1 posts and for sticking Kooshie wagon to end
3. yuma - Can't decide each way. Im leaning scum, but thats because I cant ever remember him being town.
4. ashersky - Null read
5. Insomniac - Scum Lean. Lurking. I think fake angry post.
6. Eevee - Scum Lean. Lurking day 1 till i started calling him out. used the 'Robz defence'.
7. Jorbles - Town Lean
8. liopoil - Town. Pushed that Kooshie lynch hard, maybe a bit too hard for the evidence, but I dont think they would have bussed from the get go.
9. sparky5856. - Scum lean
10. mcmcsalot - Scum Lean
11. sudgy - Town Lean. I dont think a scum would have let slip the golden key. Especially as keys can give away status. Would be bold gamble as assuming they could talk Night1
12. xeiron -- Killed Night 1
13. Lekkit - Town Lean
14. Ozle - Town
15. Kooshie -- Lynched Day 1
16. mail-mi - Null
At the moment I could probably lynch any of the scum leans, hopefully we'll have more by the end of the day though.
But Vote: Jimmmmmm
PPE: Also, I think I saw someone commenting earlier that if they went down to 0 money that would help prove thier town status. No it doesnt unfortunately.
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PPE: Also, I think I saw someone commenting earlier that if they went down to 0 money that would help prove thier town status. No it doesnt unfortunately.
...How do you know this?
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Whoa, Insomniac, getting a little angry? Lurk and then come back super mad is scummy to me. vote: insom
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PPE: Also, I think I saw someone commenting earlier that if they went down to 0 money that would help prove thier town status. No it doesnt unfortunately.
...How do you know this?
....how do you know this isnt the case?
Have you seen all the bank?
Seriously, are people STILL asking these sorts of fishing questions for absolutely no gain??!
I'll repeat it again, One Last Time.......unless you have a picture of everything that's in the bank you CANNOT say for sure that something (For example there is only one way to lose money and thats the scum Pillage ability) is the case. You simply have no idea whats in the bank and what they do!
Say for example there is an item that lets you take money off a player. That person thinks they have been pillages, claims. And then another town player also claims they have been pillaged. Following the absolute stated above, we would probably lynch one, they woudl turn out town. Then lynch the other one, which would also turn out town. Boom, Scum probably won now. Well done
This isn't an edge case or a weird scenario, this is a PERFECTLY valid situation, and why you should not speculate or fish about items, map locations UNLESS YOU HAVE A REAL GOOD CASE OF CATCHING SCUM OR SAVING TOWN.
By asking questions like you did, you have made me defend myself or look scummy, which means I have possibly let out information to scum. Well done.
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Vote Count 2.2
Insomniac (3) -- Jorbles, sudgy, mail-mi
Jimm (1) -- Ozle
Not Voting (10) -- sparky5856, mcmcsalot, yuma, Jimm, liopoil, Eevee, Lekkit, ashersky, raerae, Insomniac
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. You begin eating into your banked time at 8:00 PM on Sunday.
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if two or more people claim to have lost money than we don't know anything about their alignment, like ozle said. However, if exactly one claims then we should be fairly confident that the player is town.
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But scum might just not pillage and claim they lost money. Can they not pillage?
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Whoa, Insomniac, getting a little angry? Lurk and then come back super mad is scummy to me. vote: insom
I get angry as town all the time, but yes I can also fake angry as scum, so am I being sincere this game or not. Also why is anger scummy?
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Have to catch up on this but not feeling well right now, shooting for later tonight. Please no lynches until I'm around.
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Whoa, Insomniac, getting a little angry? Lurk and then come back super mad is scummy to me. vote: insom
I get angry as town all the time, but yes I can also fake angry as scum, so am I being sincere this game or not. Also why is anger scummy?
Well, flipping out when some people vote for you is scummy.
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if two or more people claim to have lost money than we don't know anything about their alignment, like ozle said. However, if exactly one claims then we should be fairly confident that the player is town.
Again, No No No.
Say I leave this post and say nothing and people think 'yeah that seems legit'
Scum read this. They do not pillage tonight.
One of their members claims to be pillaged, no one counter claims, you have now convinced everyone put a 'fairly confident' town label on them!
Thats worth the scum not pillaging a small amount of coins wouldn't you think?!
Again, not an edge case, or a theoretical situation involving made up items, thats just simple logic from the info in opening post.
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that's why we shouldn't be certain about it. I highly doubt they did that though.
I don't think insom is scum. He's provided more content than jimmmmmm, and reaction sounded genuine.
@ozle, so you're telling me that the way you think you might be able to clear a townie, 100%, and there isn't any item in the bank that could change this???
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Scum read this. They do not pillage tonight.
I'm talking about today.
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Off Wagon: mcmc, Jimmmm, Insomniac, sparky and yuma
MCMC has been quite a bit of scum lately, we all know how good Insomniac is. Yuma obvious is not new. Sparky I remmeber has been quite a bit.
Which leaves me most suspicious of Jimmm out of that bunch.
RNGs do not take into account who was scum most recently. Gambler's fallacy. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler%27s_fallacy) Maybe I'm misunderstanding your argument though. Are you saying that because Jimmmm hasn't played scum recently he'd be the least experienced as a scum player?
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Also I'm going to unvote for now. I'm not confident enough in Insomniac's scumminess to definitely lynch him.
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Whoa, Insomniac, getting a little angry? Lurk and then come back super mad is scummy to me. vote: insom
I get angry as town all the time, but yes I can also fake angry as scum, so am I being sincere this game or not. Also why is anger scummy?
Well, flipping out when some people vote for you is scummy.
no it isn't. scum is calm, and knows it is just town scumhunting well. for town it's frustrating because you know they're wrong.
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that's why we shouldn't be certain about it. I highly doubt they did that though.
I don't think insom is scum. He's provided more content than jimmmmmm, and reaction sounded genuine.
@ozle, so you're telling me that the way you think you might be able to clear a townie, 100%, and there isn't any item in the bank that could change this???
*sigh*
I knew this would come up , and I knew it would be because you either didnt understand or read properly, or that you were just sulking because I proved your obvious theory wrong. Probably from this comment ("but, like someone will likely chime in and say, (yuma, ozle?) all sorts of wacky stuff could have happened last night which makes it a bad idea...")
This sort of self belief in your own ideas is what is dangerous here, the thought that anybody who disagrees with you must have a 'wacky case'
It wasnt a wacky stuff, wasnt an edge case or anything, simple hard facts from the opening post information.
You say you are talking about today all of a sudden, ok. Heres another case for you:
Scum pillaged a player who had 0 coins, which is highly likely if people are still exploring.
Now that scum got 0 coins, so he knows there was no result to the player he targeted
Therefore he can safely claim to have been pillaged himself.
Another case:
Scum wanted to trasnfer money between themselves to make sure they can buy something big the following, so pillaged another scum player.
Ergo, only one pillaged person.
Claims.
You convince people he now has massive town cred.
Are we done with this yet?
Randomly guessing something and claiming it will make people get good Town cred is bad
I have ACTUAL HELPFUL INFORMATION THAT I HAVE LEARNT that could clear someone if the answers come are right and in the right order.
See the difference?
I apologise for the big bold letters, but this is what, the 4th or 5th time I have had to explain why theorycrafting is bad in a game like this and I really want to get my point across because England are actually winning a game of football and I Dont want to miss a Thing without having to worry about town giving out massive helpful hints to scum when im not paying attention.
Now, clearly you are good at this game, much better than me, you read Kooshie VERY well, well done, Town owes you a lot for that, and i think town would benefit greatly from you concentrating on your excellent reading abilities than getting hung up on stuff we cannot know whether we know or not.
I see you are not so sure on Insomniac, what do you think about Eevee and Sparky?
For Jorbles
Off Wagon: mcmc, Jimmmm, Insomniac, sparky and yuma
MCMC has been quite a bit of scum lately, we all know how good Insomniac is. Yuma obvious is not new. Sparky I remmeber has been quite a bit.
Which leaves me most suspicious of Jimmm out of that bunch.
RNGs do not take into account who was scum most recently. Gambler's fallacy. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler%27s_fallacy) Maybe I'm misunderstanding your argument though. Are you saying that because Jimmmm hasn't played scum recently he'd be the least experienced as a scum player?
Yes, maybe I wasnt clear. Out of those I think Jimm has not been as much mafia scum as them recently, so is less practiced at it. Therefore still possibly fits into my newbie scum theory. (But that line of reasoning was only so I could try to keep my 'newbie scum' theory, which didnt look so brilliant by the end of my post after I thought it through')
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Wow, that came out far more shouty sounding that I meant it too! For which I Apologise!
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I don't think you should get too hung up on your newbie scum theory, ozle. Scum
could have had reasons we don't know of for killing xeiron. I think that's more likely than a scum team of busy/new players who just didnt realize xeiron would have appeared suspicious today. You are giving scum way too little credit in my opinion.
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I don't think you should get too hung up on your newbie scum theory, ozle. Scum
could have had reasons we don't know of for killing xeiron. I think that's more likely than a scum team of busy/new players who just didnt realize xeiron would have appeared suspicious today. You are giving scum way too little credit in my opinion.
Im not.
It was a good idea to start with it seemed, but then as I worked through it out loud I realised it didn't hold much weight.
If it was a newbie scum team I doubt they would all have bussed thier team mate, and there are not enough newbie scum off wagon for it to work.
My votes on jimmmm for being off wagon, lurkiness, providing little content. All the Small Things added together really
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Well, I didn't start in a hallway.
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vote: Eevee
Took too much offense at having his bad night kill decision criticized.
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vote: Eevee
Took too much offense at having his bad night kill decision criticized.
He didn't seem very offended to me. For reference:
I don't think you should get too hung up on your newbie scum theory, ozle. Scum
could have had reasons we don't know of for killing xeiron. I think that's more likely than a scum team of busy/new players who just didnt realize xeiron would have appeared suspicious today. You are giving scum way too little credit in my opinion.
Ash's vote seems scummy to me for how little sense it makes.
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I think you missread that. I completely agree with there being lots of wacky stuff in the bank, which makes it a bad idea. there is more than likely lots of other ways to lose money, and reasons for scum to no-pillage, or pillage themself.
I guess I ought to have learned my lesson from DS9 about not putting anything past scum... they have so much more info than us that they could have all sorts of reasons for their actions.
My current guess is that xeiron got something really good at night, which scum found out about.
ozle: I think sparky is scummy for the post I quoted earlier. He wasn't as behind the lynch as ozle was. and he has agreed with me WAY too much...
I haven't taken a good look at eevee yet.
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I read eevee, I think he's towny. He was second on the kooshie wagon, and has actually contributed a fair bit.
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late to a good wagon is always going to look a little scummy even if it's done with the best intentions.)
I wasn't late; I recall going after Kooshie a couple times before announcing my intent to vote. I was just late with my vote.
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I read eevee, I think he's towny. He was second on the kooshie wagon, and has actually contributed a fair bit.
I would be wary of your first reason. In MXI watno bussed his JoaT in D1 very early on, plus we have what yuma said here.
Grujah - Glooble, ehunt, yuma, watno, Galzria, eHalcyon, Cuzz, Eevee, Morgrim7, ftl, jotheonah, Axxle
off wagon: O, theorel Captain_Frisk, TheMunch (these last two were SK and don't really count).
Lekkit (7): cayvie, Cuzz, shraeye, Eevee, raerae, Jimmmmm, Galzria
off wagon: Captain_Frisk
I hadn't realized that cayvie bussed so hard in MXVII!
(Oh hey just noticed, I disagreed with you lol)
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It's very easy to get frustrated as scum, I've been in that position a multitude of times! It's most frustrating when the reasons for lynching you are, at least in your eyes, kinda stupid.
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well, I'm sure being lynched is always somewhat frustrating, because it normally means you messed up.
looks like watno was fourth on the grujah wagon. cayvie was first on the wagon, but from what I heard she accidentally got caught on it, initially the vote was just distancing. When eevee voted it became a real wagon. If that hadn't happened people would likely have ignored it and lynched someone else.
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well, I'm sure being lynched is always somewhat frustrating, because it normally means you messed up.
The most frustrating moments in mafia are getting lynched as scum for reasons that you believe are flimsy. Case in point: me in both MA's.
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well, I'm sure being lynched is always somewhat frustrating, because it normally means you messed up.
looks like watno was fourth on the grujah wagon. cayvie was first on the wagon, but from what I heard she accidentally got caught on it, initially the vote was just distancing. When eevee voted it became a real wagon. If that hadn't happened people would likely have ignored it and lynched someone else.
From what you heard? Like from what I guessed earlier in the game?
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well, I'm sure being lynched is always somewhat frustrating, because it normally means you messed up.
looks like watno was fourth on the grujah wagon. cayvie was first on the wagon, but from what I heard she accidentally got caught on it, initially the vote was just distancing. When eevee voted it became a real wagon. If that hadn't happened people would likely have ignored it and lynched someone else.
From what you heard? Like from what I guessed earlier in the game?
yeah pretty much. I kinda remember yuma saying that might be it too.
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I'm a bit suspect of raerae for her vote on kooshie. remember that case she made on me? well, she did say that the scumread had lessened significantly, but didn't talk about kooshie until near the end where she just asked to put kooshie at L-1, then did.
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Ozle you are my second favorite Tuluvian--is that the right way to say that?--after your posts about map stuff. (I actually know someone from there in real life, and he is pretty cool and has helped me a lot in school, so that is why he is in front of you, but just barely!) Because I agree with basically everything you are outlining there. So good job!
As for scumminess I am leaning toward a Jimmm lynch, I won't be voting right now because 1. I may be highly VLA starting tomorrow and not sure what my availability is to post and leaving a vote while gone isn't ideal. Others I am leaning scummy off wagon are sparky... well that is kinda it to be honest. Mcmc I can't really remember, so I am not sure about him. More of a townie feel on Ozle and Insomniac, but most of Ozle is because of what I consider to be pro-town play in regard to keeping town "proper" when it comes to claiming, but scum can fake that very easily.
As for on wagon... ash and mail-mi (as well as rarerae to a lesser extent even though she was the last to vote) are more suspicious for being late to the kooshie party. But like I said I don't feel that going down that route is the correct avenue for today. A on-wagon lynch I think will be better for tomorrow or a later day as I continue to think that a higher concentration of scum will be found off wagon (especially since I know that I am not scum and that even further enhances the odds of finding someone off wagon with all things being equal).
Lio.... I still find him suspicious. Although he saw me fall flat on my face when it came to bussing hard on a teammate (Glooble in MXIX) and should probably know better than to try that route, but maybe he thought it would be worth the try... It is worth noting that Kooshie expressed a town read on him throughout and up through her lynch when it appeared that he was something of a valid lynch.
Who else was a possible lynch later in the day? I remember there being one that stood out in particular. Would that make that player more or less townie? I think more townie just because I think it is crazy for scum to allow for two of their players to be the main lynch targets toward the end of day. Or is it crazy.
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If someone was actually a viable lynch target late yesterday, I think that makes him/her townier. I too don't remember.
It's funny, when I read the end of day1 and it seemed almost everyone agreed with the kooshie lynch, I was so sure he had to have been town. Talk about a pleasant surprise :)
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Hi all, just wanted to say sorry for my lurking, I will catch up when I get the chance. I don't think the xeiron kill necessarily means a newbie scum team, there are plenty of things going on behind the scenes that could make xeiron a good target from the scum point of view. Someone said that I haven't been scum for a while and therefore could be seen as Newbie scum and therefore might have killed xeiron. That is terrible reasoning since I was the one who first pointed out that xeiron was a weird kill.
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I ditto jimm, I really need to help out and its not fair. I will start a reread now and see what I can get, I will pay attention to wagons and such.
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ozle, I have an idea. For your plan to potentially clear townies: what if we FIRST decide who we want to lynch, then you ask them whatever questions you want to try to clear them. This way less info is given out. however, it is a waste of time if you do end up clearing the player we decide to lynch. speaking of time.... soft deadline?
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how much banked time do we have left?
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Okay I read up on Jimmmm's posts and there's really not a lot of content there. He argues setup theory a bit, whether we should map claim or not, he jokes around a bit, apologizes for not being on much, doesn't express strong opinions about anyone that I can see. It's actually classic actilurking. I am okay with this lynch.
Vote: Jimmmmm
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Okay I read up on Jimmmm's posts and there's really not a lot of content there. He argues setup theory a bit, whether we should map claim or not, he jokes around a bit, apologizes for not being on much, doesn't express strong opinions about anyone that I can see. It's actually classic actilurking. I am okay with this lynch.
Vote: Jimmmmm
Also I'm starting to realize that I'm letting other people's suspicions direct who I'm taking a look at, which is a bad thing. I will take a look at some other players who haven't had cases built on them yet in the off wagon. However, I will have to do that tomorrow as I am V/LA for the rest of the day.
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mcmc, yesterday you were saying you supported a mail-mi lynch. Is this still the case? if so, would you mind making the case?
I could go for a Jimmmmmm lynch... I'm thinking we should take a closer look at lekkit... nobody really mentions him :P
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I forgot lekkit was even in this game...
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well, I just read lekkit's 17 posts. most of them have a fair amount of content. He pops in to say that liopoil looks pretty bad, but he'll take a closer look at it later. In his next post a fair bit later he decides that I'm towny. He says that he pretty much agrees with the kooshie lynch for a couple posts, then finally puts a vote down. He's pretty null for me from that... so I think jimmmmmm is likely a better lynch, for a) lurking more and b) not being on the kooshie wagon. but others may be an even better lynh, so I'm not voting yet.
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I'm looking at a jimmmmmm, sparky, or mail-mi lynch today. Also might be fine with a lynch on insom, lekkit, or sudgy. Anyone besides those I don't think are good lynches today.
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Should we get the person we lynch to mapclaim? I think it might give Town more information than scum if it's a Townie doing so, especially since the person won't be around any more for scum to Pillage.
I'll hopefully have time some time this afternoon to get caught up.
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It's an interesting idea. scum wouldn't want to give us info, but if a townie knew they were getting lynched they would likely want to. But then there's interesting WIFOM if a player claims stuff after someone states intent to hammer... I THINK we should just lynch them anyway, because scum would just make up stuff about the map.
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If a Townie who's about to be lynches does mapclaim and they happen to know where a particularly pro-Town item is, should they reveal this or not? What do we think?
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I now find Jim very scummy. He has come in and not addressed anything about people voting for him/suspicion on him. Also I think the person we lynx should not map claim. Revealing item location and rooms will serve only to give scum information. Post
Lynch they can reveal any and all items they purchased and any night actions they know of pillage ect. But agai do this post lynch as I don't want to set scum up in a position to fake claim map things and avoid the lynch.
I swear I will recap and post by the end of tonight, most likely content to come in an hour and a half.
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I haven't had time to catch up properly, and when I have I'll be in a better position to address concerns about me. As far as I'm aware the main issue is my lack of contributing, which is valid.
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This is turning into MXXI... I'm starting to think either liopoil or kooshie is scum... Right after liopoil makes a big case on kooshie...
here is the kooshie quote
Actually, in disagreement w/ sudgy, i think liopoil is acting very similar to herself in the newbie game (he was scum.) Vote: liopoil
and here is the mail-mi vote.
Looking at this it also looks like scum distancing while pushing two town lynches.
I remember, this was my case on mail-mi. Well kooshie turned out to be scum. So my case is kinda gone, scum!mail-mi wouldn't set up a double lynch involving his scummate. Need to look at sudgy because I thought he was scummy too. Jimm is my top scum read now, just feels off to me, and I don't think I have ever seen scum!Jimm.
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In my experience Jimm is an excellent scum player (this is from blitz games). I don't know what way that sways me, but just putting it out there.
I haven't had a chance to reread, but I'd be looking at sparky/Jimmm/Insomniac/mcmc.
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Argh this is moving so slow.
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vote: Insom
We need to get this game going again.
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Could we have a vote count, I'm willing to vote for Jim, which may stir things up more.
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I think my vote is already on insom.
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Ok, Where do we go now?
Nothing else is coming up out of night actions by the looks of it.
Who are viable Lynches?
Insomniac or Jimmm? Because im happy with either of them.
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So it looks like our options are turning into Jimmmm or Insomniac. I personally think that forcing a decision between those two players is a bit premature. Specifically I want to take a closer look at mcmc. Mcmc has been given something of a pass by most of town: the following excerpt is from lio and is an example of the general feel toward mcmc I believe.
mcmc is actually my biggest town read right now. like I said before, he was the only one actually against the kooshie lynch. His stance of claiming stuff seemed odd as scum, and most of all, his play seems different from DS9 and another dinner party, both of which he was scum in, and one of which I was scum with him in. I remember realizing right around his lynch in DS9 that his play was very similar to in another dinner party. It's different here.
Here lio provides a few reasons for why he thinks mcmc is townie and why he is his strongest read.
1. he was the only player defending kooshie. In the past this would be a scum signal. Defending a partner? But as of late bussing has become much more vogue. However, I think the tide may be starting to turn away from bussing. This is especially relevent when taking previous games into consideration. The past two games have been won by blatant scum defending scum action going on. Robz on mcmc in MXIX and yuma on EFHW in MXX. Whereas bussing has lost games of late. yuma on Glooble in MXIX, cayvie on Lekkit in MXVII. As such I have a much greater scum read on people that defend against scum lynches, not town reads.
2. any stance on claiming I think generally has no bearing on alignment because scum will generally express the opinions that they would have had if they were town.
3. He is playing a different game. This I am not so sure of. Especially w/o specifics being given.
Other reasons I am a bit suspicious of him...
1- He had a scumread on mail-mi. While I won't give mail-mi confirmed town status, I think he is pretty close to it, because he was the other viable lynch option and I just don't see scum allowing two of their players to become the focus day1. That would just be terrible play I think. As such, mcmc had a scum read on an almost IC.
Dissmissive yuma is unlike the town yuma I know, scum read for you. Not because of your position but the way you said it.
Yuma and mail-mi are fine lynch targets for me today.
In fact, vote: Mail-mi he seemed to change the thing he was doing that made me find him scummy. Whether that is scum trying to reel in his scumminess or town becoming towny as the game goes on I have yet to tell. But for now I am happy with this.
2 - I found his vote on me for being dismissive to be somewhat scummy. It was like he was looking for an excuse to vote for me and then jumped on it once he found it.
3 - he is also on the active enough to not attract notice but not super super active. This isn't a huge reason, but I think is where scum generally lie.
Now, obviously I want raerae to get in on this because apparently she has super human abilities to read mcmc. And I am not necessarily going to vote for mcmc at this juncture, partially because I am still somewhat VLA--only using my old appt's internet while I am supposed to be cleaning... and I won't have internet in the new appt for a few days--but also because I am not sure if mcmc is a beter lynch candidate than Jimmmm. I think he is a better one than insomniac.
Robz--is it possible to change the OP subject to Day2 and then on day3, etc in subsequent days. It helps a lot when trying to do Print screen searches to know what day it is. Thanks!
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In response yuma, when kooshie flipped town my scum read on mail-mi was gone, as I said in a previous post.
This is turning into MXXI... I'm starting to think either liopoil or kooshie is scum... Right after liopoil makes a big case on kooshie...
here is the kooshie quote
Actually, in disagreement w/ sudgy, i think liopoil is acting very similar to herself in the newbie game (he was scum.) Vote: liopoil
and here is the mail-mi vote.
Looking at this it also looks like scum distancing while pushing two town lynches.
I remember, this was my case on mail-mi. Well kooshie turned out to be scum. So my case is kinda gone, scum!mail-mi wouldn't set up a double lynch involving his scummate. Need to look at sudgy because I thought he was scummy too. Jimm is my top scum read now, just feels off to me, and I don't think I have ever seen scum!Jimm.
I said exactly what you did.
Also I agree the jimm, insom is not the only people we should look at. I do find jimm scummy for independent reasons which I stated, I wanted a vote count because i would vote for him to cause some more discussion which I think we can then use to look at more people. I will go back and review my other suspicions after my exam today.
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Got it so everytime I have a weekend I'm gonna get voted for even when I am just as active as everyone else. Just vote me out of this game already this is ridiculous.
Anyways having looked back. Vote: Sudgy
I think he is the most likely to be scum.
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Got it so everytime I have a weekend I'm gonna get voted for even when I am just as active as everyone else. Just vote me out of this game already this is ridiculous.
Anyways having looked back. Vote: Sudgy
I think he is the most likely to be scum.
probably going to support this, I thought he was scum yesterday but need to go back and check why and my other scum read was null and void today.
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Got it so everytime I have a weekend I'm gonna get voted for even when I am just as active as everyone else. Just vote me out of this game already this is ridiculous.
Insom.... I am not going to vote you and will be pretty vocal against your lynch. I know you are frustrated and know that you are busy outside of this game. But if you are town, please don't reenact your lynch in MXX because 1. if you are town, you are a strong player and we need you. 2. if you are town, we don't want to lose our advantage we already have over scum. I dont' think I will be voting for you today unless you self vote. So please don't?
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I for one will not be voting for sudgy today. He was on the Kooshie wagon and today I think our focus needs to be off wagon. Unless there is some sort of scum slip or some sort of investigation or crazy role shenanigans--which does not appear to be the case today--I will only be voting off wagon.
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ins, I cant speak for others, but my issue with you isnt your low activity on weekends, it's the fact you didnt participate in lynching mafia yesterday. I don't think I'll be voting outside you/mcmc/sparky/Jimmm today, just got to decide between you four. My feeling says sparky, and I know I cant do rereads for at least a couple of days so
vote: sparky
yuma, why explicitly not Insomniac?
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ins, I cant speak for others, but my issue with you isnt your low activity on weekends, it's the fact you didnt participate in lynching mafia yesterday. I don't think I'll be voting outside you/mcmc/sparky/Jimmm today, just got to decide between you four. My feeling says sparky, and I know I cant do rereads for at least a couple of days so
vote: sparky
yuma, why explicitly not Insomniac?
he reads like the frustrated townie insomniac I have seen soooo many times (MXIV, MXX). Like I said, he could be faking it. But I don't think he is faking.
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Im worried that everyone off wagon is happy to vote off wagon (which includes me)...when everyone agrees something then there is always bound to be scum in there.
Even more annoying that Xerion effectively stole my hammer now as it puts me off wagon. Although I suppose that narrows down the suspects for me.
I reckon we probably have two scum off wagon, but definitely believe we have one.
There isnt much to choose between the rest, and no one is really Under pressure so not much to be gained there.
We still have lots of time left before the deadline runs out so no need to rush this
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We still have lots of time left before the deadline runs out so no need to rush this
We've started eating into bankable time, so we should consider setting a soft deadline. Not a big issue yet, but something to start thinking about.
Robz can we get a vote count?
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Vote Count 2.3
Insomniac (3) -- sudgy, mail-mi, ashersky
Jimm (2) -- Ozle, Jorbles
sudgy (1) -- Insomniac
sparky5856 (1) -- Eevee
Not Voting (7) -- sparky5856, mcmcsalot, yuma, Jimm, liopoil, Lekkit, raerae
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. The game ends on April 29th at 7:00 PM.
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okay just want to mention there are now 8 alive that were on wagon and 6 alive that were off wagon. Why is off wagon such a better place to look. I mean I understand odds are all 4 scum didn't bus, but even if 2 bussed the odds aren't crazy better off wagon then on.
@Yuma: I will vote for the person I find most scummy and if we assume 2 scum on wagon and 2 off, being off wagon does not make you scummier. So your resistance to vote on wagon is interesting to me, as well as not voting for insom, especially seeing you were off wagon. You have narrowed your pool of will vote for to 4 people mcmc, jimm, ozzle, sparky. You are assuming 2 of which are scum, people(ash) keep coming up with these pools where they have a 50% chance or higher of finding scum out of very little. With a game of 14 people I find that crazy, now I don't necessarily find you scummy for this I am just worried about it and want the information out there.
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Vote: Jimmmmmm.
I've given my reads. I'll take another look at mcmc and sudgy though. I still do not think insom is scum.
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If you guys want the gold key, give me all your money.
I'm going to Vote: ashersky because of the reasons people have stated. This is 50% RVS though.
Previously to this lekkit and insom voted ashersky for inflating his post count/extending rvs and not being normal town ash.
I also said this but didn't vote.
Ash, what he is doing is how he gets a post count that is double that of anyone else. However what he is doing is quite frustrating and likely to get a response out of people. Scum is very hard to catch when they are sitting at there computer making sure everything they type is towny. Frustrated posts however are often typed quickly and are a much easier place to catch scum.
If this was someone else, I would say town read however the post count inflating he has done really serves to make him a difficult lynch target which is something ash does not find a helpful quality in town.
Ash responds in this way.
vote: mcmcsalot
That one is real.
Inflating my post count? Hilarious. Check the post counts of the games I've been in recently. I've been the top poster in three or four, without silly posting. So your accusation reeks of scum building a bad case on a good lynch.
Yes, I am a fine lynch for D1. We all are. I created a situation where it is easy to vote for me. Now, all of town has a number of interactions/opinions to look at when I flip town.
I guarantee scum is currently voting for me. Mcmc is scummiest, mail-mi's most recent vote is terrible. There have also been some towny reactions, too.
Also, I am the king of crazy claim ideas, and I think map claiming is bad on D1.
Now I have gone over before but this is a ridiculous statement in more ways then one. Having a usually high post count doesn't change the fact that posting repetitive one liners inflates your post count. I cannot stress enough "creating a situation where it is easy to vote for me" and saying "I guarantee scum is currently voting for me" Is CRAZY if you make it easy to vote for you, confused townies looking for scum are going to vote for you.
And here is sudgy unvoting because that was a towny reaction to the vote on him
Unvote.
The 50% of RVS was actually wanting to see ashersky's reaction. His reaction seemed towny enough to me.
Here is an interesting post about insom, need to check what his stance on insom is now.
Actually, Liopoil is acting differently than I remember when he was scum... This makes me think he's town. This could change later though.
I voted for Insomniac because I'm trying to get him to post. I don't like LaLL that much, while it can be useful sometimes (and lurking is scummy), I would rather lynch someone else. If Insomniac suddenly was at L-1 or something, I would unvote.
I voted for Insomniac because I wanted to get him to start posting. I thought that was clear when I voted, but when people started freaking out about it I said why. I'll Unvote for now though.
Okay, he now votes kooshie, finally because she is lurking...the same thing he said was not a good reason to lynch someone a few posts back.
I think I agree enough with Liopoil to Vote: Kooshie. She doesn't lurk like this usually.
Now day 2 he post this about insom
Is Insomniac usually this lurky? I'm kind of suspicious of him from that, and Jimmmmm too. He wasn't lurky in my earlier game with him (even though he was only alive D1)
So thats about everything, ugh I really wanted this to show more than I am getting from it. I guess sudgy I find sudgy scummy for flip slopping on vote for a lurker. Also, his vote on kooshie was the 4th vote, he then didn't post till kooshie's lynch was imminent. If scum is going to get stuck bussing D1 thats how it would happen. He is now voting for insom for lurking and that his reaction was scummy.
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okay just want to mention there are now 8 alive that were on wagon and 6 alive that were off wagon. Why is off wagon such a better place to look. I mean I understand odds are all 4 scum didn't bus, but even if 2 bussed the odds aren't crazy better off wagon then on.
First, your math is wrong. We know for a fact that all all 4 scum didn't bus. Since one of them was lynched.
If 2 scum bussed then the odds of lynching scum are better on wagon than off. I don't think 2 out of 3 scum was on the wagon, though. I think there was 1 scum on the wagon and 2 off wagon. That makes it 1/8 scum on wagon and 2/6 off. I kind of agree with yuma that off wagon is better, but I still think there was scum on the wagon, and therefore it would be pretty bad to just ignore that. Even temporarily.
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I agree that there is scum both on and off wagon, like there was in the games Yuma cited. I'm not so sure that it is more likely that there is two off wagon than two on-wagon.
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If you guys want the gold key, give me all your money.
I'm going to Vote: ashersky because of the reasons people have stated. This is 50% RVS though.
Previously to this lekkit and insom voted ashersky for inflating his post count/extending rvs and not being normal town ash.
I also said this but didn't vote.
Ash, what he is doing is how he gets a post count that is double that of anyone else. However what he is doing is quite frustrating and likely to get a response out of people. Scum is very hard to catch when they are sitting at there computer making sure everything they type is towny. Frustrated posts however are often typed quickly and are a much easier place to catch scum.
If this was someone else, I would say town read however the post count inflating he has done really serves to make him a difficult lynch target which is something ash does not find a helpful quality in town.
Ash responds in this way.
vote: mcmcsalot
That one is real.
Inflating my post count? Hilarious. Check the post counts of the games I've been in recently. I've been the top poster in three or four, without silly posting. So your accusation reeks of scum building a bad case on a good lynch.
Yes, I am a fine lynch for D1. We all are. I created a situation where it is easy to vote for me. Now, all of town has a number of interactions/opinions to look at when I flip town.
I guarantee scum is currently voting for me. Mcmc is scummiest, mail-mi's most recent vote is terrible. There have also been some towny reactions, too.
Also, I am the king of crazy claim ideas, and I think map claiming is bad on D1.
Now I have gone over before but this is a ridiculous statement in more ways then one. Having a usually high post count doesn't change the fact that posting repetitive one liners inflates your post count. I cannot stress enough "creating a situation where it is easy to vote for me" and saying "I guarantee scum is currently voting for me" Is CRAZY if you make it easy to vote for you, confused townies looking for scum are going to vote for you.
And here is sudgy unvoting because that was a towny reaction to the vote on him
Unvote.
The 50% of RVS was actually wanting to see ashersky's reaction. His reaction seemed towny enough to me.
Here is an interesting post about insom, need to check what his stance on insom is now.
Actually, Liopoil is acting differently than I remember when he was scum... This makes me think he's town. This could change later though.
I voted for Insomniac because I'm trying to get him to post. I don't like LaLL that much, while it can be useful sometimes (and lurking is scummy), I would rather lynch someone else. If Insomniac suddenly was at L-1 or something, I would unvote.
I voted for Insomniac because I wanted to get him to start posting. I thought that was clear when I voted, but when people started freaking out about it I said why. I'll Unvote for now though.
Okay, he now votes kooshie, finally because she is lurking...the same thing he said was not a good reason to lynch someone a few posts back.
I think I agree enough with Liopoil to Vote: Kooshie. She doesn't lurk like this usually.
Now day 2 he post this about insom
Is Insomniac usually this lurky? I'm kind of suspicious of him from that, and Jimmmmm too. He wasn't lurky in my earlier game with him (even though he was only alive D1)
So thats about everything, ugh I really wanted this to show more than I am getting from it. I guess sudgy I find sudgy scummy for flip slopping on vote for a lurker. Also, his vote on kooshie was the 4th vote, he then didn't post till kooshie's lynch was imminent. If scum is going to get stuck bussing D1 thats how it would happen. He is now voting for insom for lurking and that his reaction was scummy.
vote: mcmc
2 reasons--this post is scummy (is this about sudgy or me?) and yuma's case.
I will unvote if raerae says you are town.
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I'll hopefully get time to catch up today or tonight.
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I agree that there is scum both on and off wagon, like there was in the games Yuma cited. I'm not so sure that it is more likely that there is two off wagon than two on-wagon.
Because with two on a scum wagon with 4 scum it's MUCH more difficult to make another wagon form. With 2 votes you can make something happen, but 1 is a lot less. And I think it's really bad play from scum to bus hard day 1 in a game like this.
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<Cut out post>
vote: mcmc
2 reasons--this post is scummy (is this about sudgy or me?) and yuma's case.
I will unvote if raerae says you are town.
Wait, What what what?
Is anybody else Missing the reason for this?
A) why?
B) What makes Raerae so townie in your eyes?
C) Sheep Yuma then pre-emptively sheep Raerae
D) Voting for someone but placing responsibility on someone else, and also placing responsibility on someone else for your unvote!
Welcome to the top of my 'looking scummy' list?
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well, I think the idea is that raerae reads mcmc well, but it could be very bad if we get to lylo, raerae is scum, and mcmc is still alive...
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I haven't been posting recently because I've been really busy irl. Sorry. Should clear up in a few days.
I'm voting for Insomniac because he hasn't been posting much, and with barely any content. And his defense was scummy.
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Okay raerae doesn't read mcmc that well (at least we don't have sufficient evidence to conclude that), and also we don't raerae's alignment.
I think one scum on wagon two off is most likely. I'd say two scum on wagon and all three off it are almost equally probable.
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Okay raerae doesn't read mcmc that well (at least we don't have sufficient evidence to conclude that), and also we don't raerae's alignment.
I think one scum on wagon two off is most likely. I'd say two scum on wagon and all three off it are almost equally probable.
oh right kooshie was scum, 2 scum off wagon means one on wagon, which does make looking off wagon much smarter, okay that makes sense. Seeing as my case on sudgy did nothing but remind me of how crazy scummy ash is.
Also eevee, she peged me as scum in ZMIX, and knew I was scum in MXXI, she also was one of the only people who argued strongly against my lynch in MXX and oh yea she was right I was town. She has correctly guessed my alignment in all 3 games we have been together and both when I was scum and town, to say we don't have sufficient evidence is a drastic understatement.
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I don't think it is, three games is very little when trying to draw conclusions regarding future games. I mean I agree her opinion should be weighed when making a read on you, maybe even valued higher than a random opinion, but we don't even know her alignment here. I'd rather use my own judgement or listen to my top town reads. Saying "lets lynch mcmc unless raerae thinks otherwise" is a recipe for disaster unless we learn more of her.
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Saying "lets lynch mcmc unless raerae thinks otherwise" is a recipe for disaster unless we learn more of her.
I do agree with this.
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Wow a lot has happened. I'm gonna Vote: Jimmmmm b/c I'm not behind the insom lynch any more (upon reflection, he sounds more like frustrated town than angry scum) and come on Jimmmm? Where the heck are you?
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I'm around, I just need to do a pretty big re-read before I'm in the position to have any sort of opinion. Sorry!
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Wow a lot has happened. I'm gonna Vote: Jimmmmm b/c I'm not behind the insom lynch any more (upon reflection, he sounds more like frustrated town than angry scum) and come on Jimmmm? Where the heck are you?
This post seems very very scummy to me, especially in light of the fact that just this morning he was fine with it:
I think my vote is already on insom.
he says he changed his mind... but ehhhh...
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Wow a lot has happened. I'm gonna Vote: Jimmmmm b/c I'm not behind the insom lynch any more (upon reflection, he sounds more like frustrated town than angry scum) and come on Jimmmm? Where the heck are you?
This post seems very very scummy to me, especially in light of the fact that just this morning he was fine with it:
I think my vote is already on insom.
he says he changed his mind... but ehhhh...
Spanish class man. A lot of wasted time can make you rethink things.
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Hey, guys, I'm backish. For some reason I'm having a terrible time getting myself invested in this game and every time I try to throw myself in again I get discouraged and give up. I tried to do some wagon analysis but there are just too many alive people for me to get anything out of that. I feel like that will be a better tool in future days but it's just not hitting for me right now. So, add that to the fact that my biggest scumread (lio) pioneered a scum lynch yesterday and I'm back at zero.
I think I like the Jimmmmm lynch more than Insom because I do have high expectations for Jimmmmmm as town and he is not coming close to meeting them. But, as a few people have already pointed out, I'm a bit leery that we have been steered toward those two.
As for mcmc, I don't have a solid read on him but what little I have is townish. I have to be honest though, I don't put a lot of stock in that yet because it's been a big game and I just don't expect to get anything solid until later in the game. On that note, FOS Eevee for so loudly objecting to the fact that I know mcmc. He's played with both of us, once when they were both scum and once when we were both town so. I shouldn't be blindly followed but to downplay how well I can read him is weird.
That's all I can do for now, sorry guys. I'll try to be back later to address a few more things.
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<Cut out post>
vote: mcmc
2 reasons--this post is scummy (is this about sudgy or me?) and yuma's case.
I will unvote if raerae says you are town.
Wait, What what what?
Is anybody else Missing the reason for this?
A) why?
B) What makes Raerae so townie in your eyes?
C) Sheep Yuma then pre-emptively sheep Raerae
D) Voting for someone but placing responsibility on someone else, and also placing responsibility on someone else for your unvote!
Welcome to the top of my 'looking scummy' list?
Thanks. It's nice here. I'm happy to be mislynched if it helps the game (see my argument with Eevee on this in MnM), but I think it hurts town to mislynch me today. You can mislynch me tomorrow if you are still convinced I bussed Kooshie, but really, read my interactions with her. I called her out as newbie scum fairly early on.
I mean, I guess that's a good vet route if you want to bus for town cred early in a game, but I don't think it's worth it unless the scum team is unusually large, say 5-6 folks. We've seen how detrimental it can be to a 2/3 man team to lose a teammate early.
For that, I think off-wagon is your best bed. Mcmc would definitely be willing to go out on a limb to save a partner, given how much he looks up to his brother and Robz has done the same thing. Mcmc stayed off the Kooshie wagon, and here's his last post of D1:
Ugh very scummy on xeiron hammering befor people say anything and hammering out of the blue(no posts previously) and a vote change in that same post my vote will be on him tomorrow. Also still don't think kooshie is scum sorry I didn't argue harder. But his wagon will give us a lot tomorrow.
On raerae, she's proven herself game after game of being able to call mcmc's alignment perfectly. No reason to go against that.
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I'm mostly against using three games as a sufficient sample size. Raerae has a good track record of reading mcmc, but I just think most of it is variance. Streaks like that happen.
Of Ins/Jimm/mcmc, Jimmm reads a bit towny to me (his explanations for not contributing resonate with me, I also think it's possible he'd just try to contribute something if he was scum). Ins is perfectly capable of faking that frustration, and mcmc hasn't done anything I think is towny. But, sparky is not doing ANYTHING, which is scummier than Ins or mcmc. Also seems to be working, is there any reason people aren't even mentioning him?
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hmm, eevee sounds scummier with each post, and ash continues to make me think hmm is he now offering himself up because thats what he thinks is best for town(he always does) or is he doing it so he can say thats always my stance and claim its town!ash ugh. Anyway I understand why we should look off wagon and will stop wasting our time digging up cases on on wagon people. I'll take a look at people tomorrow morning.
One thing to think on, if w feel steered toward jimm,insom we should look at the other off wagon who's scum partners can guide the off wagon lynches. So me, yuma, sparky
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I'm mostly against using three games as a sufficient sample size. Raerae has a good track record of reading mcmc, but I just think most of it is variance. Streaks like that happen.
Of Ins/Jimm/mcmc, Jimmm reads a bit towny to me (his explanations for not contributing resonate with me, I also think it's possible he'd just try to contribute something if he was scum). Ins is perfectly capable of faking that frustration, and mcmc hasn't done anything I think is towny. But, sparky is not doing ANYTHING, which is scummier than Ins or mcmc. Also seems to be working, is there any reason people aren't even mentioning him?
On this, Ins has been mostly absent and frustrated, I wouldn't put it past him to pretend to be this frustrated, but I can't say that he's doing that with any certainty. I still would be okay with this lynch however...
Jimmmm has been totally actilurking his last post, just made me think that he's scum even more than before. Look at it:
I'm around, I just need to do a pretty big re-read before I'm in the position to have any sort of opinion. Sorry!
That's not content, that's just an excuse. I've never seen town Jimmmm do that. I admit I haven't played with him that much, but I've read a lot of his games. He doesn't usually provide this little content. (This is in fact what Kooshie was doing when she was on the ropes.) I still think Jimmmm is the scummiest player thus far.
In response to Eevee's coments about sparky, I have to say sparky has kinda slipped through the cracks for me. I will check it out, but first I want to comment on ashersky's play.
Ashersky has been playing totally weird this game. First he was playing as that weird tellbot, and now his reason's for his recent vote are something I don't understand at all. Is it possible that ashersky is just playing weird to try and make himself difficult to read? This is the sort of thing someone might try as scum, although he could be doing this to try and make himself more difficult to read in future games (playing to be scum in the future) which I think is anti-town.
Anyhow just wanted to say that, going to read sparky's last bunch of posts.
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Alright on sparky:
He has been a bit lurky d2, but during d1 he did mention other time commitments that could be interfering. His d1 play seems not scummy at all, I in fact got a town read on him for his d1 play. He was going after Kooshie, and had stated intent to vote. He's certainly not any more scummy than other players like Ozle who were offwagon, but attacking Kooshie. D2 I admit he hasn't posted a lot of content, but his D1 play makes me have a slight town lean on him. I think we have much better candidates for lynch right now.
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mcmc, what of my posts makes me seem scummy to you?
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mcmc, what of my posts makes me seem scummy to you?
well you disagreeing with raerae being able to read me just didn't seem like something you would do, town or scum. Which leads me to believe you are scum and have alterior motives. But after that I guess I was just biasing the fact that you found jimm town when it looks like alot of people find him scummy, but as I have not reread myself I shouldn't have made that statement. apologies.
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i don't find jimm town. I find him townier than you, Ins and sparky.
actually vote:mcmc, that attack on me you couldnt back up is scummy, and others don't seem to agree with my sparky suspicions.
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throwing this out there, has scum!mcmc EVER made an argument he couldn't back up...also fun fact, I have negatively impacted town every single game I was town. The only time I wasn't mislynched as town, I was an ic. And the only time I have lynched scum as town, I sheeped galzria(my fellow ic) despite me thinking he was wrong. Myabe when mcmc is confused and makes bad cases and points fingers at a lot of people, its because hes confused and has no idea what going on because hes town.
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throwing this out there, has scum!mcmc EVER made an argument he couldn't back up...also fun fact, I have negatively impacted town every single game I was town. The only time I wasn't mislynched as town, I was an ic. And the only time I have lynched scum as town, I sheeped galzria(my fellow ic) despite me thinking he was wrong. Myabe when mcmc is confused and makes bad cases and points fingers at a lot of people, its because hes confused and has no idea what going on because hes town.
Maybe mcmc knows all of this and would be sure to play accordingly.
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throwing this out there, has scum!mcmc EVER made an argument he couldn't back up...also fun fact, I have negatively impacted town every single game I was town. The only time I wasn't mislynched as town, I was an ic. And the only time I have lynched scum as town, I sheeped galzria(my fellow ic) despite me thinking he was wrong. Myabe when mcmc is confused and makes bad cases and points fingers at a lot of people, its because hes confused and has no idea what going on because hes town.
So you're saying we should ignore everything you do ever because if you're scum you'll play against us and if you're town you'll play anti-town by mistake?
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I actively am trying to be a good town player. Statistically yes, you should never lynch the person I want to lynch. But statistically you should also never lynch eevee. The fact of the matter is eevee could still be scum just because he almost never is, and I could be right about who I think is scum. I have also played very few town games and am still evolving my scumhunting methods and whatnot.
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Vote Count 2.4
Insomniac (1) -- sudgy
Jimm (4) -- Ozle, Jorbles, liopoil, mail-mi
sudgy (1) -- Insomniac
mcmcsalot (2) -- ashersky, Eevee
Not Voting (6) -- sparky5856, mcmcsalot, yuma, Jimm, Lekkit, raerae
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. The game ends on April 29th at 7:00 PM.
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I feel most comfortable with a Jimmm vote at this point. Again I won't vote because of my semi-VLA and unlike my other game, we aren't at a critical point up against a deadline right now, so that will keep him at L-2. So I guess you could say that I am declaring intent to L-1 vote at this point. Jimmmm I think it is high time you come in and start addressing the votes on you. I know you are busy with RL and an other game, but there is some serious pressure building up on you right now.
After Jimmmmm, I would put mcmc as second and I think it is a very close second... and potentially subject to change once we actually start to hear from Jimmmm, followed by sparky.
For the other non-kooshie voters, I would put Ozle and Insomniac at the same level.
Like I said before I am not considering kooshie voters for today's lynch. I am not ignoring them and if something super crazy bad came up I would be very willing to vote for them, but nothing has and I continue to think that it is more likely that 2 or even 3 of the remaining scum were off wagon whereas I think it very unlikely that 1 or 0 were off wagon. Add in that I am off-wagon and that shrinks my pool significantly, add further evidence that out of everyone in the entire game I think mcmc and Jimmmm are being the most scummy and it immediately becomes apparent that off-wagon is the place to vote today.
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jimmmmm isn't at L-2, he's at L-4.
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PPE: ninja'd
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PPE: ninja'd
Haha why post it then? Mild fos, seems like you are forcing contributions and got upset you missed a chance there so wanted everyone to know you were going to say the thing ash already said.
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eh, I don't read anything from it. it is a pointless post, but whenever I was going to say something and someone beats me to it I always want to just post it anyway.
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eh, I don't read anything from it. it is a pointless post, but whenever I was going to say something and someone beats me to it I always want to just post it anyway.
I don't, but would think I'd be more likely as scum.
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eh, I don't read anything from it. it is a pointless post, but whenever I was going to say something and someone beats me to it I always want to just post it anyway.
I don't, but would think I'd be more likely as scum.
It's annoying to type a post and then see that someone beat me to it. I guess it's pointless, but you're barking at shadows. I want to hear if yuma is still unwilling to vote at L-4.
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sorry I didn't get around to rereading the off wagoners yet still studying for my last exam on thursday. I should have a reread done tomorrow though.
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Nobody lynch mcmc until I have a chance to read him.
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Re: Jorbles, Not posting something you wanted to makes you a lurker, posting it makes you scum. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. I don't think it's scummy at all.
raerae, He's at l-6 and Jimm seems to be under a lot more pressure.
Also, will try to get some rereading done, since I will be going to a gaming convention tomorrow and I will be VLA until sunday.
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vote: Jimm just did a reread, omg he super scummy.
He makes a few posts about map claim and backs down when he realizes what pillage does.
Asks about where xieron, pat, insom are.
Pushes the fact that people who go out of their way to seem townie are scummy. Really slight way of casting mass suspicion on targets that have nothing to do with actually being scummy.
Mentions doing something for the sake of town cred is scummy which I agree about but honestly doesn't do anything but gain him town cred...
Vote's raerae for lurking as a joke in post #347. He himself had not posted for 114 posts, and goes on to not post for 50 posts(has one post in between saying he is behind and will catch up)
Comes back and starts talking about the matter at hand no lynching, which again is a null factor.
Post about everyone finding yuma town because we read him scummy.
*** disappears for 160 posts***
talks about the matter at hand again(its a new day) that xieron was a weird lynch.
*** disappears for 103 posts***
apologizes for lurking, and says him being newbie scum is a bad argument because he pointed out xieron was a wierd kill. Everyone knew it was a wierd kill, he just said it first and then used that to defend himself later, scummy to me.
He still has not done any scum hunting or adding to the conversation, nor done a reread about anything. When he brings up a new topic, should the person we lynch mapclaim? second time he has brought up claiming.
Has done nothing but said he will reread and address things since then.
If he isn't scum I am going to be extremely sad.
I hve felt like I have lurked too much and I have posted tons more content. Also my period of absence was 558-697, 139 posts which is less than one of jimms absences. He has been saying he will start posting for over half the game...
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Vote Count 2.5
Insomniac (1) -- sudgy
Jimm (5) -- Ozle, Jorbles, liopoil, mail-mi, mcmcsalot {L-3}
sudgy (1) -- Insomniac
mcmcsalot (2) -- ashersky, Eevee
Not Voting (5) -- sparky5856, yuma, Jimm, Lekkit, raerae
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. The game ends on April 29th at 7:00 PM. There are 33 days left.
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sparky doesn't seem scummy to me, he was in support of the kooshie lynch without voting, but it wasn't like a I kinda support this but don't want it to go through. Eevee mentioned it seemed as though he was scum trying to push the lynch through without voting, which would be crazy for scum to do on a scum partner.
Now insom
Got it so everytime I have a weekend I'm gonna get voted for even when I am just as active as everyone else. Just vote me out of this game already this is ridiculous.
Anyways having looked back. Vote: Sudgy
I think he is the most likely to be scum.
Okay, angry as town. I get it, I get angry as town as well, but this?!
You have 16 posts in a game with 700. One of them is you correcting yourself(CPU autocorrect) and 3 are you complaining that sudgy couldn't be bothered to remember or look back at your post voting for him, I'll consider that one post of content.
Lastly you sum everything up with the quote above where I underline something which you cannot even pretend is remotely true.
I'm happy to vote insom as well, unless he decides he wants to play this game.
Going to reread yuma later, not enough time to do it now and a bit exhausted, I don't think theres anything he could have done except claim scum that would mae me want to vote him over Jimm/insom. Also people being worried we are being pushed toward Jimm/insom. Well it's just as likely it's because they are playing insanely scummy games.
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Jimmmmmm is scummy in a similar way to kooshie, and that's likely were my vote will stay for today. However, since the cases seem similar, I'm a bit irked that mcmc supports this one but not the kooshie one...
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So many people! I get them confused when I try to put into words what I think of them, but I'll try my best on who I can call to mind. Maybe do a few rereads, even.
Jimm: Contributing, giving opinions, no reads, really, but otherwise very towny. Actually, not many people have put in reads. So, Lekkit, why point at me?
Raerae: Not much of a read, kinda towny. Is Jimm's vote still on her? I can't remember the reason. At one point he voted her just because she said not to, if they were voting because of lurking.
Ashersky: Right now all I can think of is his tells. He's pretty much stopped doing that, but it might take a little before something more solid enters my mind.
Liopoil: ahhh, him. Don't like how he's tunneling and won't say for a second that I might possibly be town. How can he be so sure? Oh, yeah, if I get lynched and flip town, he's in a teensy bit of trouble. He seems surer than he should be, though.
Jorbles: town vibes, but a bit of sheeping might have been in there. Nothing serious, though.
Mail-mi: Sheeeeeeeeeeeepy.
Lekkit: also rather sheeping liopoil. When he said he like liopoil's case on me and defended it, he still didn't vote for me. He did soon after, but why not then?
This.
Also a huge argument was that she was lurking which for day one she was not the biggest lurker. She had 38 out of 525 Jimm now only has 29 of 763, and you know my satance on insom. So I was worried people were pushing for lynch the lurking as a way to push a lynch. I felt she was posting content so I wanted to look for someone who was posting scummy. I support the jimm lynch over the insom lynch because jimm is not only lurking but scummy when he does post. Kooshie's posts didn't seem all that scummy to me.
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Looking at you quote, I see Kooshie (a townie) gave Jimmmmm a townread. When I don't think many people could give him a townread. This is enough to push me over to Vote: Jimmmmm. This is L-1, nobody else vote until he's said some things.
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Oh no wait, thought he was at L-2 for some reason. Now he's at L-2. Oops.
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well, he's basically at L-1 because Yuma stated intent to vote at some point.
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OKay, well I'm not scum, but the problem with being behind in a game is that I don't really have any good arguments for why. I have an assignment due in about 10 hours; I'll get to this after that.
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OKay, well I'm not scum, but the problem with being behind in a game is that I don't really have any good arguments for why. I have an assignment due in about 10 hours; I'll get to this after that.
post number 8 bajillion concerning getting to it...
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How many zeroes in a bajillion? Do you get the point yet that I'm busy?
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How many zeroes in a bajillion? Do you get the point yet that I'm busy?
The busy argument really doesn't hold up. It's been two weeks you had time, a reread doesn't take as much time as it does effort, scum is less inclined to care about doing it.
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Why is scum less inclined to care? Are you suggesting that spending 3 hours re-reading and trying to argue my way out of being lynched is a good way to spend my time when I have an as-yet incomplete assignment due this afternoon?
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...3 hours?
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Hey, I'm a slow reader. But really, I have to read 30 pages, then address people's concerns about me, then try to make a case on someone more likely to be scum than me. It'll take a decent chunk of time.
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Hey, I'm a slow reader. But really, I have to read 30 pages, then address people's concerns about me, then try to make a case on someone more likely to be scum than me. It'll take a decent chunk of time.
No one... at least I hope no one is going to vote you until you are given a chance to respond.
But I for one think the following:
1. you have time to get online. This is evidenced by you coming in and saying, "hey guys I am here, but haven't had time to do anything, life is really busy.
2. being busy outside of this game is ok. In fact I think it is normal. I am doing some pretty heavy procrastinating as I type this...
3. but you haven't offered anything in these times. So either you are town who feels that he can only offer substance if he does a complete reread. This I think is a fallacy town often makes. Just reading as the game goes along and making comments here and there when you do get online--and then doing a reread later when you have more time--I think is the better approach. Or you are scum, who is using real life as an excuse... Scum is not beyond doing this....
4. based off your interactions with kooshie and some other general play, I think you fit the model as scum better than town. If you are town and being mislynched then RL is definitely a contributing factor and that sucks, but hopefully we will be able to get some concrete evidence out of your lynch and who pushed for it, etc... Hopefully we also won't lynch you before you get your reads in.
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agreed with no more voting for sure. If somebody does I'll unvote.
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eh, I don't read anything from it. it is a pointless post, but whenever I was going to say something and someone beats me to it I always want to just post it anyway.
I don't, but would think I'd be more likely as scum.
It's annoying to type a post and then see that someone beat me to it. I guess it's pointless, but you're barking at shadows. I want to hear if yuma is still unwilling to vote at L-4.
Sorry I got confused with the L-X. My reason for not voting Jimmm has nothing to do with what L-X he is at. It has more to do with me being semi-VLA and I don't think that leaving my vote on when I am not sure of what sort of internet access I will have for this week is the best course of play for town. I am willing to vote for Jimmmm after I have consistent internet access (or we get increasinly close to some sort of soft deadline) and after he gives a response (or an excessive amount of time goes by w/o him giving some sort of response).
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I am also going to say that while I have never been in that situation losing a mafia player day1 can be very demoralizing for scum. Look at MXI, where the scum team more or less gave up and stopped posting altogether as a whole, or MXVII where Frisk competely gave up as scum as examples.
Scum know that losing a player day1 significantly increases the odds of losing, and as that happens players stop posting as much and lose interest in the game because they know it is a lost cause. I don't know if that is happening here... but I am certainly going to be looking for it.
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I am also going to say that while I have never been in that situation losing a mafia player day1 can be very demoralizing for scum. Look at MXI, where the scum team more or less gave up and stopped posting altogether as a whole, or MXVII where Frisk competely gave up as scum as examples.
Scum know that losing a player day1 significantly increases the odds of losing, and as that happens players stop posting as much and lose interest in the game because they know it is a lost cause. I don't know if that is happening here... but I am certainly going to be looking for it.
I hadn't thought about this argument, but this is very possible. It can be very frustrating to be losing any of these forum games, given how much time you are committing to them. Not everyone is willing to keep trying when things are going badly for them or their team.
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I am also going to say that while I have never been in that situation losing a mafia player day1 can be very demoralizing for scum. Look at MXI, where the scum team more or less gave up and stopped posting altogether as a whole, or MXVII where Frisk competely gave up as scum as examples.
Scum know that losing a player day1 significantly increases the odds of losing, and as that happens players stop posting as much and lose interest in the game because they know it is a lost cause. I don't know if that is happening here... but I am certainly going to be looking for it.
Probably means we should be looking at the lurkers.
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I am also going to say that while I have never been in that situation losing a mafia player day1 can be very demoralizing for scum. Look at MXI, where the scum team more or less gave up and stopped posting altogether as a whole, or MXVII where Frisk competely gave up as scum as examples.
Scum know that losing a player day1 significantly increases the odds of losing, and as that happens players stop posting as much and lose interest in the game because they know it is a lost cause. I don't know if that is happening here... but I am certainly going to be looking for it.
Probably means we should be looking at the lurkers.
Lurkers definetly. Jimmmm and insom fall under both the lurker and the off kooshie wagon status. My vote's stayin on jimmmmm
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Coming back in and saying you are about to do a re-read Time after Time isn't the same thing as coming in and saying you are busy in RL. If your busy, your busy. In hindsight maybe signing up to a big Mafia game isn't the best thing to do before a big assignment is due?
Anyways, i have been happy with lynching massive lurkers since the beginning, the odd small amount of posting here and there are not much. If people dont have time for Mafia games for chunks of time, they shouldn't sign up to them to be honest. Its a game based on continuous interactions.
there a re lot of people in this game because its big, and not very much scum, especially as we got one early.
I still think the Insom angry is fake angry (if its not then sorry Insom, but if you are going to fake angry and other emotions in other games, if you are legit upset here then its your own fault if nobody believes it!)
And there is only one reason to be fake angry...scum covering lurking or other things.
Anyways, happy to keep my vote on jimmm, or switch to Insom.
Or even Sparky, whats he said this game? Nothing recently.
There are a few others I feel are a bit scummy, but not so much that I would lead a charge for them.
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What's Jimmmmm at now? Should we just lynch? Might be better to get to night.
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You can lynch me now, or you can lynch me tomorrow after I've had time to form reads and make people justify their vote.
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You can lynch me now, or you can lynch me tomorrow after I've had time to form reads and make people justify their vote.
Are you good with a soft Jimmmmm lynch deadline? Say tomorrow at 8:00 p.m. forum time?
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You can lynch me now, or you can lynch me tomorrow after I've had time to form reads and make people justify their vote.
Tomorrow Tomorrow!
I'm happy with this self imposed deadline!
Have you actually got time though?
Because if you haven't, dont force yourself into a corner that helps nobody (especially not you)
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Can we make it, say, midnight instead?
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We probably should have decided on a soft deadline at the beginning of the day, but yeah, let's decide on Jimmmmm by midnight tommorow... for now, until Jimmmmm catches up maybe we should decide on a second canidate if we don't lynch Jimmmmm?
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We probably should have decided on a soft deadline at the beginning of the day, but yeah, let's decide on Jimmmmm by midnight tommorow... for now, until Jimmmmm catches up maybe we should decide on a second canidate if we don't lynch Jimmmmm?
Insomniac?
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I'm leaning more on sparky, although he hasn't even been online since the 23rd.
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I'm leaning more on sparky, although he hasn't even been online since the 23rd.
but have you seen what sparky did post when he was here? vs what insom posted I thing its a pretty easy call.
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sparky has posted more content... I don't know. See, I re-read over half of the players in this game near the beginning of D2, decided who was the most likely to be scum, then forgot all my reasons for that. I just remember finding sparky more scummy. I should reconsider.
Actually, mail-mi is probably a better lynch than sparky or insom. His position on the kooshie wagon was somewhat safe. He started out looking like he was against it, and was going to try to get me lynched instead, then backed off. The claiming-thing and dice rolling are scummy too. Oh, and before the kooshie thing he had a scumread on me, I made a point, then later sparky made the same point about me. When sparky said it he backed off, but not when I said it. There was also that thing recently about flipping his read on jimmmmm.
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Actually, mail-mi is probably a better lynch than sparky or insom. His position on the kooshie wagon was somewhat safe. He started out looking like he was against it, and was going to try to get me lynched instead, then backed off. The claiming-thing and dice rolling are scummy too. Oh, and before the kooshie thing he had a scumread on me, I made a point, then later sparky made the same point about me. When sparky said it he backed off, but not when I said it. There was also that thing recently about flipping his read on jimmmmm.
Don't lynch me because I have access to something that could really help town.
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Trying to get yourself nightkilled mail-mi?
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Trying to get yourself nightkilled mail-mi?
No I'm trying to get myself not lynched.
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But what's the point of that if scum now knows you have something worth keeping you around for?
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Mail-mi... why'd you say that? You don't have any votes on you yet! Yuma and ozle are not gonna be happy...
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Yeah, that strikes me as a really big overreaction.
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Which it was. Sorry about that :-\ shouldn't have said that. It was because I saw that and I just typed that without thinking.
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Actually, I'm happy to leave mail-mi alive to be NKed at this point.
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Didn't mail-mi also claim he knew where a key or something special was? Or was that somebody else?
Also, reading jimmmmm now then on to mcmc.
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Didn't mail-mi also claim he knew where a key or something special was? Or was that somebody else?
Also, reading jimmmmm now then on to mcmc.
That was sudgy
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Didn't mail-mi also claim he knew where a key or something special was? Or was that somebody else?
Also, reading jimmmmm now then on to mcmc.
That was sudgy
Ahhhh, thanks.
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vote: mail-mi
I still think jimmmm is a good lynch but man that was really really bad.
Obvious play is obvious.
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Jimmmmmm Notes:
1. In favor of map claim then backs off it. This was before everybody got all up in arms about it being a bad idea so I have no scumread here. (early D1)
2. Argues against a no lynch because it doesn't help find scum. This was basically the most content he's posted all game. (#397)
3. Doesn't address his wagon. Is this scummy? Is it just his play? I can't remember a jimmmmm wagon taking place before...
4. Goes back to talking about map claiming...I don't care for that but since his lynch was gaining speed at that time, it almost seems like he's asking permission?
I'm not buying it and I won't support this lynch. I think Jimmmmm is a good enough player that if he were scum, I'd expect his play to have done a 180 after Kooshie got lynched for lurking and not posting content. I'll judge him more when his reads come in but I'm not game for this one as it stands.
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vote: mail-mi
I still think jimmmm is a good lynch but man that was really really bad.
Obvious play is obvious.
But isn't it obvious bad town play?
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vote: mail-mi
I still think jimmmm is a good lynch but man that was really really bad.
Obvious play is obvious.
Don't waste your lunch on me. I'm probably gonna get nkd anyway.
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The following is a test: (If I survive the night, I'll tell you what this test is about.)
Unvote
Vote: liopoil
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(test still)
Unvote
Vote: sparky
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(test)
Unvote
Vote: Jimmmmm
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ugh, I don't care is that was stupid on mail-mi's part. Doesn't mean hes scum in any way. Yuma voting for him after saying nothing could make him look at on-wagoners...thats scummy. Raerae, what don't you get about lynching someone who has posted about zero content.
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mail-mi, are you still voting for me intentionally?
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Mcmc Thoughts:
1. Nothing noteworthy prior to me replacing in other than his little thing with yuma. It was interesting but I didn't draw much from either of them based on it.
2. Some potential buddying at #345.
3. He's voiced suspicion of mail-mi since D1 but hasn't put a real case together on that suspicion.
4. He's contributed theory, content, ideas, and tried to move the game along without rushing it.
I can say, with as much certainty as usual and with the normal disclaimer that I reserve the right to change my mind, that we are dealing with town mcmc. As scum, this man is manipulative and will create and push the hell out of a case until it goes through. He also doesn't oppose town lynches. If he were scum, he would have been all over the Kooshie wagon. One other thing that is going to sound conceited as hell but is true, if mcmc were scum, I would either be set up for a lynch or dead by now.
Going to bed now, will take a look at mail-mi and maybe eevee tomorrow.
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ugh, I don't care is that was stupid on mail-mi's part. Doesn't mean hes scum in any way. Yuma voting for him after saying nothing could make him look at on-wagoners...thats scummy. Raerae, what don't you get about lynching someone who has posted about zero content.
What about my post was unclear? I won't push this lynch through because I don't believe it's sound. I think we're getting over excited because we (finally!) caught lurky scum for the first time since...what? Buffy? and the lurking was a secondary scum trait in that game...and we're going to make a mistake if we lynch Jimmmmm. I really don't believe scum would be stupid enough to pull that twice.
That being said, he still does need to produce those promised reads.
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vote: mail-mi
I still think jimmmm is a good lynch but man that was really really bad.
Obvious play is obvious.
mail-mi's play seems bad enough that it was just terrible town play. If he's still alive tomorrow, then well I might revisit that.
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Vote Count 2.6
Jimm (6) -- Ozle, Jorbles, liopoil, mail-mi, mcmcsalot, sudgy {L-2}
sudgy (1) -- Insomniac
mcmcsalot (2) -- ashersky, Eevee
mail-mi (1) yuma
Not Voting (4) -- sparky5856, Jimm, Lekkit, raerae
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. The game ends on April 29th at 7:00 PM. There are 32 days left.
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vote: mail-mi
I still think jimmmm is a good lynch but man that was really really bad.
Obvious play is obvious.
mail-mi's play seems bad enough that it was just terrible town play. If he's still alive tomorrow, then well I might revisit that.
Dude, don't say that. Let scum believe that you have an undying Townread on mail-mi and that leaving him alive won't present them with a decent mislynch.
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ugh, I don't care is that was stupid on mail-mi's part. Doesn't mean hes scum in any way. Yuma voting for him after saying nothing could make him look at on-wagoners...thats scummy. Raerae, what don't you get about lynching someone who has posted about zero content.
What about my post was unclear? I won't push this lynch through because I don't believe it's sound. I think we're getting over excited because we (finally!) caught lurky scum for the first time since...what? Buffy? and the lurking was a secondary scum trait in that game...and we're going to make a mistake if we lynch Jimmmmm. I really don't believe scum would be stupid enough to pull that twice.
That being said, he still does need to produce those promised reads.
I don't see anything redeeming in Jimmm's play though. Absence of helping town is good for scum, and if it makes him seem town in some people's minds that's a bonus for the scum team. Ugh, this lynch doesn't appear to be going through, but I still support it. I will switch back to this if it looks viable.
sparky has disappeared from this game, but he's also missing from another game and delaying its start. I think he's v/la, not sure if it was a planned v/la or something else. Has he been prodded? If he hasn't can we do that?
I am still okay with lynching Insomniac, so I'm switching back to that. I think there's a good chance his anger was faked and I think he's just playing a lurky scum tactic. I could see him doing this so he can coast in the early parts of a big game so he can wake up later and start participating when it's later in the game and no one will have to hold him accountable for anything but his lurkiness, which he'll be addressing by participating. Vote: Insomniac.
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vote: mail-mi
I still think jimmmm is a good lynch but man that was really really bad.
Obvious play is obvious.
mail-mi's play seems bad enough that it was just terrible town play. If he's still alive tomorrow, then well I might revisit that.
Dude, don't say that. Let scum believe that you have an undying Townread on mail-mi and that leaving him alive won't present them with a decent mislynch.
Yeah, I guess you're right. Also hey it speaks!
I also didn't realize Jimmmm was actually so close to being lynched. (I thought he was still at L-4) I'm switching back to vote: Jimmmm.
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sparky has disappeared from this game, but he's also missing from another game and delaying its start. I think he's v/la, not sure if it was a planned v/la or something else. Has he been prodded? If he hasn't can we do that?
As best I can recall, he announced this V/LA ahead of time.
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Jimmmmm has until midnight tomorrow to contribute his promised reads, a deadline he himself proposed. I say we just leave it at that.
Separately, unvote based on raerae's read, as I said I would. Not that mcmc is free of suspicion now, but he's not D2's lynch.
I think mail-mi is just playing badly as town right now, and not intentionally as scum.
Jorbles seems scummy from recent comments, and could see a Jorbles lynch being a good one. I don't like the "let's see if he lives through the night" comment at all, and his vote jumping with regards to Jimmmmm seems opportunistic ("oh, he was at L-2? Gotta keep that chance going!").
vote: jorbles
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I'll actually be somewhat surprised if mail-mi gets NKed. Mail-mi, after your tests votes, do you mean to be voting for jimmmmm? oh, and jorbles voting jimmmmm because he's close to lynched is scummy...
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mail-mi, are you still voting for me intentionally?
Yeah, but you are seeming more towny now that your back. Vote: Insomniac
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Jimmmmm has until midnight tomorrow to contribute his promised reads, a deadline he himself proposed. I say we just leave it at that.
Separately, unvote based on raerae's read, as I said I would. Not that mcmc is free of suspicion now, but he's not D2's lynch.
I think mail-mi is just playing badly as town right now, and not intentionally as scum.
Jorbles seems scummy from recent comments, and could see a Jorbles lynch being a good one. I don't like the "let's see if he lives through the night" comment at all, and his vote jumping with regards to Jimmmmm seems opportunistic ("oh, he was at L-2? Gotta keep that chance going!").
vote: jorbles
I knew someone was going to jump at that. I just didn't want to derail what I think is a good wagon, and thought it was better to stick it out even if I looked a bit scummy for it.
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sparky doesn't seem scummy to me, he was in support of the kooshie lynch without voting, but it wasn't like a I kinda support this but don't want it to go through. Eevee mentioned it seemed as though he was scum trying to push the lynch through without voting, which would be crazy for scum to do on a scum partner.
Now insom
Got it so everytime I have a weekend I'm gonna get voted for even when I am just as active as everyone else. Just vote me out of this game already this is ridiculous.
Anyways having looked back. Vote: Sudgy
I think he is the most likely to be scum.
Okay, angry as town. I get it, I get angry as town as well, but this?!
You have 16 posts in a game with 700. One of them is you correcting yourself(CPU autocorrect) and 3 are you complaining that sudgy couldn't be bothered to remember or look back at your post voting for him, I'll consider that one post of content.
Lastly you sum everything up with the quote above where I underline something which you cannot even pretend is remotely true.
I'm happy to vote insom as well, unless he decides he wants to play this game.
Going to reread yuma later, not enough time to do it now and a bit exhausted, I don't think theres anything he could have done except claim scum that would mae me want to vote him over Jimm/insom. Also people being worried we are being pushed toward Jimm/insom. Well it's just as likely it's because they are playing insanely scummy games.
The underlined statement is true, on the weekend I was just as active as anyone else in this game. Try not to take my post out of context.
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vote: mail-mi
I still think jimmmm is a good lynch but man that was really really bad.
Obvious play is obvious.
But isn't it obvious bad town play?
I would put the odds at about 50/50 town/scum, but lean more on the side of being obvious scum play than obvious town play. Say 60/40.
To me it looked like genuine panic from mail-mi about even being considered to be a lynch candidate for today. I tend to think that sort of genuine panic is more scummy than townie.
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ugh, I don't care is that was stupid on mail-mi's part. Doesn't mean hes scum in any way. Yuma voting for him after saying nothing could make him look at on-wagoners...thats scummy.
This is false. I never said nothing could make me look off-wagon. This is what I said.
Like I said before I am not considering kooshie voters for today's lynch. I am not ignoring them and if something super crazy bad came up I would be very willing to vote for them, but nothing has and I continue to think that it is more likely that 2 or even 3 of the remaining scum were off wagon whereas I think it very unlikely that 1 or 0 were off wagon. Add in that I am off-wagon and that shrinks my pool significantly, add further evidence that out of everyone in the entire game I think mcmc and Jimmmm are being the most scummy and it immediately becomes apparent that off-wagon is the place to vote today.
I think mail-mi's over reaction classifies as crazy bad. I think it has a greater odds of hitting scum than even the Jimmmm lynch, which I still think is pretty good.
You seem to have a little bit of a tunnel vision going on this game in regard to me.
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This is the same Mail-mi who looked to panic Day1 because Insom got a few votes on him Day 1 (even though other people had more), so its consistent.
It it were not so obvious I would put forward a Mail-mi/insom/Jimmm scum team. But that would be far too Easy, and this game isnt Easy
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about 6 hours left Jimmmmm.....
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mail-mi, are you still voting for me intentionally?
Yeah, but you are seeming more towny now that your back. Vote: Insomniac
Now that he's back?? What thread have you been reading?
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I spy.... Jimmmmmm! online!
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Hi.
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Caught up. I don't think Jimmm is scum, he is frankly better at playing scum than this.
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Well I'm almost out of time, and it seems trying to do a full re-read is not particularly helpful. I know I deserve to be lynched, and I'm sorry to all the other Townies out there for my lack of contributions. I'm Town and if you don't lynch me I will definitely contribute more from now on, and if you do then I'll probably do a full map-claim since I think if I'm to be lynched that will potentially help Town more than scum. I'm now abandoning my full re-read in favour of re-reading Kooshie and then trying to address what people have said about me and then picking a potential scum or two to re-read.
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Well I'm almost out of time, and it seems trying to do a full re-read is not particularly helpful. I know I deserve to be lynched, and I'm sorry to all the other Townies out there for my lack of contributions. I'm Town and if you don't lynch me I will definitely contribute more from now on, and if you do then I'll probably do a full map-claim since I think if I'm to be lynched that will potentially help Town more than scum. I'm now abandoning my full re-read in favour of re-reading Kooshie and then trying to address what people have said about me and then picking a potential scum or two to re-read.
I think a map claim would benefit scum. You would just be telling them a whole bunch of stuff.
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lio gets Town points for starting the Kooshie lynch, yuma gets scum points for this:
it seems to me that there is a big fuss on Yuma... can someone explain it to me? it seems to be mostly people getting suspicious, but then saying that they aren't good at reading Yuma. That is called hedging, right?
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Well I'm almost out of time, and it seems trying to do a full re-read is not particularly helpful. I know I deserve to be lynched, and I'm sorry to all the other Townies out there for my lack of contributions. I'm Town and if you don't lynch me I will definitely contribute more from now on, and if you do then I'll probably do a full map-claim since I think if I'm to be lynched that will potentially help Town more than scum. I'm now abandoning my full re-read in favour of re-reading Kooshie and then trying to address what people have said about me and then picking a potential scum or two to re-read.
I think a map claim would benefit scum. You would just be telling them a whole bunch of stuff.
But given they know 3-4 times as much as any one Townie, there's a good chance I'd be telling them things they already know. Also, say I know where a pro-Town item is. There's a 75% chance that a Townie who will be alive tomorrow is closer to it than scum.
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Off Wagon: mcmc, Jimmmm, Insomniac, sparky and yuma
MCMC has been quite a bit of scum lately, we all know how good Insomniac is. Yuma obvious is not new. Sparky I remmeber has been quite a bit.
Which leaves me most suspicious of Jimmm out of that bunch.
...
1. Jimm - Scum lean for being off lynch all day (and possibly newbie scum?). Could be diff timezone to other scum team.
I just want to reiterate that this is a terrible argument. Maybe there are three people in this game who are silly enough to NK a newbie who was a viable mislynch for no good reason. I'm not one of them. If I was scum then I had a very good reason to kill xeiron. I suspect that scum did have a good reason, but please don't buy the argument that I haven't been scum for a while and therefore must have accidentally made an obviously bad choice.
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vote: Jimm just did a reread, omg he super scummy.
Really? "omg he super scummy"?
He makes a few posts about map claim and backs down when he realizes what pillage does.
What exactly did I back down from? You make it sound like I was having a big argument about it and finally conceded. Really I just said what I thought might be good for Town, and then realised it wasn't. That should be a nullread.
Pushes the fact that people who go out of their way to seem townie are scummy. Really slight way of casting mass suspicion on targets that have nothing to do with actually being scummy.
Mentions doing something for the sake of town cred is scummy which I agree about but honestly doesn't do anything but gain him town cred...
Both of these are pretty much the same. Do you agree with them or was it just to cast mass suspicion? The fact is, Towncred is way more important for scum than for Town. The only time a Towny should be really concerned with how much Towncred they have is if they're looking like being lynched, whereas Towncred is 90% of a scum's game. The point of what I said was not to give myself Towncred, it was referring to a particular style of play by a particular person, ash.
Vote's raerae for lurking as a joke in post #347. He himself had not posted for 114 posts, and goes on to not post for 50 posts(has one post in between saying he is behind and will catch up)
I know, I'm hilarious right?
talks about the matter at hand again(its a new day) that xieron was a weird lynch.
That wasn't the matter at hand until I mentioned it.
apologizes for lurking, and says him being newbie scum is a bad argument because he pointed out xieron was a wierd kill. Everyone knew it was a wierd kill, he just said it first and then used that to defend himself later, scummy to me.
The point was that I knew it was a weird kill. If I made the kill because I was newbie scum who had no idea who to kill and randomly picked xeiron, then I wouldn't know it was a weird kill would I?
He still has not done any scum hunting or adding to the conversation, nor done a reread about anything.
This is your only good point. I hate to fall back on Robz' old "I'm so scummy I'm obvTown" argument though, but I'd be way to scared to not put opinions down if I was scum.
When he brings up a new topic, should the person we lynch mapclaim? second time he has brought up claiming.
Just something I thought of, and there'd be no real point doing this if I was scum, since you just wouldn't believe me.
If he isn't scum I am going to be extremely sad.
If you're Town, then I'm sorry, this is your unlucky day. If you're scum, then you're making a really easy argument and I've pretty much handed you a good mislynch.
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unofficial vote count:
Jimm (5) -- Ozle, liopoil, mcmcsalot, sudgy, Jorbles {L-3}
sudgy (1) -- Insomniac
mcmcsalot (1) -- Eevee
mail-mi (1) -- yuma
Jorbles (1) -- ashersky
Insomniac (1) -- mail-mi
Not Voting (4) -- sparky5856, Jimm, Lekkit, raerae
So who would you vote for Jimmmm--same question to lekkit, raerae and sparky
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Ok... I am guessing that is all Jimmmm is going to give us? Is there a better lynch candidate than him at this point. I am still highly wary of mail-mi, but no one else is looking that way with me.
Others have suggested Insomniac. I disagree with his lynch, as have others.
Others have suggested sparky. I don't see how his lynch would be any better than Jimmmm. The main argument against Jimmmm is basically that if he were scum he would be playing a better game than he has been. I think this is a super crappy argument.
Other options? Jorbles and mcmc have been mentioned, and Insomniac is voting for sudgy. mcmc is the only one that compares to Jimmmm and I would support his lynch at this point, but there seems to be less of a push on him than seem. The other two do not seem any better than Jimmm.
Post count time:
Jimmm - 46
ozle - 81
sudgy - 45
mcmc - 55
lio - 134
yuma - 56
eevee - 36
ashersky - 56
sparky - 37
mail-mi - 57
lekkit - 22
raerae - 40
jorbles - 41
insomniac - 18
Compare this to:
Day1 post count
1. Jimm: 35
2. raerae: 26
3. yuma: 29
4. ashersky: 42
5. Insomniac: 10
6. Eevee: 21
7. Jorbles: 15
8. liopoil: 92
9. sparky5856: 26
10. mcmcsalot: 32
11. sudgy: 33
12. xeiron: 13
13. Lekkit: 16
14. Ozle: 65
15. Kooshie: 38
16. mail-mi: 39
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people I would like to see contribute more--not because I think they are scummy necessarily, but because I think town needs their input to find scum and because both are good, solid players--Lekkit and Insomniac. I know that life is busy guys, and I am not insisting that you post more, because hey, this is just a game. But if you do have the time I would love to hear what you both have to say a little more in depth. Thanks!
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Yuma, I really don't want to vote for jimmmmm because I really think he'd flip town. I am with you on mail-mi but want to read him again to solidify that. If I don't get that in tonight, I'll have time tomorrow morning.
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Jimm: Contributing, giving opinions, no reads, really, but otherwise very towny. Actually, not many people have put in reads. So, Lekkit, why point at me?
Raerae: Not much of a read, kinda towny. Is Jimm's vote still on her? I can't remember the reason. At one point he voted her just because she said not to, if they were voting because of lurking.
Ashersky: Right now all I can think of is his tells. He's pretty much stopped doing that, but it might take a little before something more solid enters my mind.
Liopoil: ahhh, him. Don't like how he's tunneling and won't say for a second that I might possibly be town. How can he be so sure? Oh, yeah, if I get lynched and flip town, he's in a teensy bit of trouble. He seems surer than he should be, though.
Jorbles: town vibes, but a bit of sheeping might have been in there. Nothing serious, though.
Mail-mi: Sheeeeeeeeeeeepy.
Lekkit: also rather sheeping liopoil. When he said he like liopoil's case on me and defended it, he still didn't vote for me. He did soon after, but why not then?
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I'm not buying the "Jimmmmm is the only one dumb enough to NK xeiron" arguement (okay, exagerated a little). I think xeiron was NKed because scum thought he had found a PR item or something, making it a not-dumb move. Also, Jimmmmm isn't dumb... and even if that is the sort of thing only Jimmmmm would do, he would have two other buddies to talk him out of it. The xeiron NK doesn't incriminate Jimmmmm at all. I'll re-read xeiron, see if he had any strong reads.
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oh hey, I was xeiron's biggest scumread...
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Unvote. The recent discussion has lessened my scumread on Jimmmmm to the extent that I don't think he's the best lynch. re-evaluating.
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I'm not buying the "Jimmmmm is the only one dumb enough to NK xeiron" arguement (okay, exagerated a little). I think xeiron was NKed because scum thought he had found a PR item or something, making it a not-dumb move. Also, Jimmmmm isn't dumb... and even if that is the sort of thing only Jimmmmm would do, he would have two other buddies to talk him out of it. The xeiron NK doesn't incriminate Jimmmmm at all. I'll re-read xeiron, see if he had any strong reads.
I feel like you are taking the inverse of this argument. I don't think anyone has said, "it was dumb to kill xeiron. Jimmm is the only one dumb enough." Rather Jimmmm attempted to use that as a defense, that he wouldn't be dumb enough to NK xeiron. But doesn't that hold for everyone--especially anyone that has ever played as mafia before, which just about includes everyone in this game! So it isn't that I think Jimmmm is dumb enough to NK xeiron. But rather that for whatever reason killing xeiron was a good move!
From my point of view, killing xeiron wasn't the best night kill choice... but I don't know everything that is going on in this game.
FAQ #3
Remember that some players may have access to much less--or much more--information than you. This may make their lies seem more credible or their truths less credible. Or vice versa. Be on your guard.
Jimmm using that argument as a defense makes no sense... or rather it makes no sense to give it any legitimacy, because anyone can use it. I could use it, Ozle could use it, lio could use it. etc...
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Woah woah woah, a lot of people are unvoting because Jimmmmm has quoted me saying I thought he was newbie scum, that was NOT the case and has since been clarified!
I picked Jimmm out of the off wagoners orginally because he was lurking, and because the OTHERS may have been newbie scum and Jimmm wasnt around to guide them.
Aint NOBODY has said jimmm is bad scum, thats just blatantly untrue. And the ludicrus stating that the case against him is because he has not been scum for a while. And jimmm using it as a defence and you all following along like sheep is very very worrying!!
Anyways, this day I am happy to lynch :
Insomiac for posting a whole total of 18 posts for the end of day 2. His fake anger. The worry panic of mail-mi on Day 1
Sparky - Where is he? Has he done anything this game?
Mail-mi - most suspicious ON the Kooshie wagon, others have listed reasons for that. Panic defence of insom day1 (with now being the only one voting Insom, seems to me to be a reactionary vote to critiscm
Jimmmm - Most suscpious off wagon at the start of the Day. He 'im not newbie scum' defence was completely made up
I could be convinced to vote for:
MCMC if someone can build a case as he is next on my scum list.
Ashersky has been real quiet today as well, thats unusual for Ashersky isnt it?
Didn't we try to get a soft deadline going?
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Yuma, I really don't want to vote for jimmmmm because I really think he'd flip town. I am with you on mail-mi but want to read him again to solidify that. If I don't get that in tonight, I'll have time tomorrow morning.
I guess I don't understand why or how you really think he'd flip town. What evidence is there that points in that direction? I haven't seen any except for the following. 1. Jimmmm plays scum better than this... who says he is playing scum bad. Right now it looks like he is about to sneak out of being lynched! He is losing votes all over the place. I think it has more to do with him being busy in real life. If you are scum and are busy in real life, it doesn't change how much you post, because you don't have the time. You dont' have the time to think through every post and worry about how what you say will be interpreted, so you in fact post less! 2. the argument above which is also crap. I will tell you this... if he flips scum... this will remind me a lot of MXX where I defended EFHW based entirely on nothing to prevent her lynch.
vote: Jimmmm
PS I have internet in my condo now!
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I could be convinced to vote for:
MCMC if someone can build a case as he is next on my scum list.
Ashersky has been real quiet today as well, thats unusual for Ashersky isnt it?
I have a case on mcmc a while back, but I think Jimmmm is better.
Ash said he would be semi-VLA for Easter weekend. But he has been a bit quiet comparatively--especially since he was called out for "trying to inflate his post count" which I don't think he was... but it was interesting how his post count when down after people pointed it out.
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I think the case on Jimmmmm is that:
-lurking
-off kooshie wagon
-he was kooshie's biggest townread
Is this correct? anything else? hmmmmm... I could definatly go back on Jimmmmm, but he has contributed more than sparky, insom, and lekkit... I'm gonna look around at other players. He, unlike kooshie, clearly has been busy in real life... and has been trying to contribute more than I think others are. sparky still hasn't logged on since the 23rd... Robz started looking for a replacement for pat just a couple days after the game started... do we need a replacement for sparky?
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I think the case on Jimmmmm is that:
-lurking
-off kooshie wagon
-he was kooshie's biggest townread
I don't think--at least I haven't--been suspicious of Jimmmm because he was lurking. I mean he has a very valid excuse for being busy. What I have issue with is this idea that if Jimmm were scum he would post more often and not "play badly." I think the other two parts of the case are huge. I think the only thing that compares to them is mcmc:
- off the kooshie wagon
- kooshie was his biggest townread.
Those two things are enough reason in my mind to lynch someone. Add in his defense which has been dubious at best.
"I wouldn't be so dumb to kill xeiron" and "I was the first to point out that it was a bad NK so I can't be scum"
"I'd be way to scared to not put opinions down if I was scum."
- being more focused on theory talk than scum hunting
- His constant promising to do a reread, but never doing it--I think that tends to be a scum trait ala Grujah in MXI
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it isn't that kooshie was his biggest townread; I don't think that was true, it's that Jimmmmm was Kooshie's biggest townread.
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it isn't that kooshie was his biggest townread; I don't think that was true, it's that Jimmmmm was Kooshie's biggest townread.
No I meant that mcmc had a townread on kooshie and to me that is equivilant of Jimmm being Kooshie's biggest townread.
I want right now for Jimmm and mcmc to give reads on each other. What are the chances of a kooshie/jimmmm/mcmc scum team?
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I guess that mcmc is already voting Jimmm... but Jimmm what do you think of mcmc?
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After investigating the matter, it appears that sparky5856 did NOT put out a V/LA notice. I have sent him a prod. If this does not prompt an appearance (he has not signed on to the Forums in several days), I will seek a replacement.
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Vote Count 2.7
Jimm (5) -- Ozle, Jorbles, mcmcsalot, sudgy, yuma {L-3}
sudgy (1) -- Insomniac
mcmcsalot (1) -- Eevee
Jorbles (1) -- ashersky
Insomniac (1) -- mail-mi
Not Voting (5) -- sparky5856, Jimm, Lekkit, raerae, liopoil
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. The game ends on April 29th at 7:00 PM. There are 31 days left.
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Wait I'm on insom? Vote: Jimmmmm that's better.
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mail-mi, are you still voting for me intentionally?
Yeah, but you are seeming more towny now that your back. Vote: Insomniac
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I for one really hope that sparky comes back... if he doesn't this will be the second game in a row that would need a replacement after he started and left.
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I for one really hope that sparky comes back... if he doesn't this will be the second game in a row that would need a replacement after he started and left.
I was angrily thinking the same.
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Jimmmm - Most suscpious off wagon at the start of the Day. He 'im not newbie scum' defence was completely made up
Bullshit. Your "Jimmmmm is newbie scum" argument was terrible.
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Jimmmm - Most suscpious off wagon at the start of the Day. He 'im not newbie scum' defence was completely made up
Bullshit. Your "Jimmmmm is newbie scum" argument was terrible.
Dont bullshit me, i never said you were newbie scum, I indicated you fitted into my 'newbie scum argument' because you were not around much so may not have been able to guide the newbie scum
And I have stated several times now that the whole newbie scum thing was just thinking aloud and not a serious proposition!
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We actually have a lot of time left... but it would be nice to have night be over the long weekend...
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And I have stated several times now that the whole newbie scum thing was just thinking aloud and not a serious proposition!
If you agree that it was a terrible argument, then my response to it is valid, and we have no problem.
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Ive tried to clarify it several times that the thinking out loud thing was just rambling as I went along and that I don't think you are newbie scum, just not the most active scum (and thus newbie scum could have lynched in your absence. )
BUT ANYWAY the whole newbie scum thing we all dropped aaages ago. And continuting to use it as a defence in every breath you take is not really relevant.
*shrugs*
I've posted my reasons on why I think you are scum. Either that or you dont have the time to play and are not helping town much.
I'd rather lynch Insom to be honest, but that wasn't getting much traction!
Have you answered Yuma's question yet?
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And I have stated several times now that the whole newbie scum thing was just thinking aloud and not a serious proposition!
If you agree that it was a terrible argument, then my response to it is valid, and we have no problem.
I disagree that it was an argument for your lynching in the first place, so you making it the main point in your defence when no one is thinking is is certainly not valid.
If we have plenty of time left then there is no need to rush one tonight, Im livin' it up this weekend so wont be about, which means the strange moving about in the night actions have to be done over easter, when no ones about, that would be bad wouldnt it?
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BUT ANYWAY the whole newbie scum thing we all dropped aaages ago. And continuting to use it as a defence in every breath you take is not really relevant.
Wow. You're really intent on forcing this mislynch aren't you? But coming out with an outright lie is pretty risky isn't it?
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Jimmm what do you think of mcmc?
this, and also what you think of lots of other people too :P
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I disagree that it was an argument for your lynching in the first place, so you making it the main point in your defence when no one is thinking is is certainly not valid.
It wasn't my main defense, it was me responding to one of the points made about me. Next time you make an argument you don't really mean, put an 'lol jk' after it or something, which will save a lot of confusion.
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I guess that mcmc is already voting Jimmm... but Jimmm what do you think of mcmc?
His case on me was pretty scummy.
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I disagree that it was an argument for your lynching in the first place, so you making it the main point in your defence when no one is thinking is is certainly not valid.
It wasn't my main defense, it was me responding to one of the points made about me. Next time you make an argument you don't really mean, put an 'lol jk' after it or something, which will save a lot of confusion.
Are you deliberately understanding what I am saying or just being argumentative for the sake of it? Or are you just not actually reading the comments before you post? I cant decide. Either way I find this comment particularily offensive.
Read the post again, it starts off by WARNING its a ramble and then in even the same post I put
"This is at odds with my newbie scum theory above, because I dont think newbie scum would do that, bus partner all the way. And the people OFF the wagon are not newbie scum. So its possible that we have newbie scum AND a vet who wasn't around much during the night phase."
Note it says : "And the people OFF the wagon are not newbie scum".Ergo....if you are off the wagon then you are not a newbie!
.
That doesnt say you are the newbie scum, that implies you are the GOOD scum, followed by this post, which is implied to say you are newbie scum (when it actually means that you being a not there veteran actually fits with the previous discussion on the scum on wagon being newbie)
"1. Jimm - Scum lean for being off lynch all day (and possibly newbie scum?). Could be diff timezone to other scum team."
Now I am not sure which parts of that you didnt understand, but I dont really care. I have used BOLD in this one for you to notice the salient points, because it seems you need indicators like 'lol jk' before you can understand stuff.
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I also think we are looking for newbie scum here because of the Xeiron, or a couple of newbie scum and someone who isnt so active to help them out.
PPE: Warnings, this is a bit of a ramble and was just my thought process as I was typing it)
This is at odds with my newbie scum theory above, because I dont think newbie scum would do that, bus partner all the way. And the people OFF the wagon are not newbie scum. So its possible that we have newbie scum AND a vet who wasn't around much during the night phase.
Off Wagon: mcmc, Jimmmm, Insomniac, sparky and yuma
MCMC has been quite a bit of scum lately, we all know how good Insomniac is. Yuma obvious is not new. Sparky I remmeber has been quite a bit.
Which leaves me most suspicious of Jimmm out of that bunch.
...
So to summarise:
1. Jimm - Scum lean for being off lynch all day (and possibly newbie scum?). Could be diff timezone to other scum team.
So you decide no one off wagon could be newbie scum, and then you look at everyone and PoE me because I'm the only one that fits your scenario of newbie scum. So I'm not meant to take this argument seriously? Saying "this is at odds with my newbie scum theory" doesn't mean that you're abandoning your newbie scum theory.
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Funny how Jimmm is only responding to Ozle in regard to something that is not part of the scummy case while effectively ignoring everyone else... you know the stuff that actually has merit
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honestly, I think the ozle-Jimmmmm arguement is meaningless and a waste of time... Nothing they say in regard to "newbie scum" or whatever is going to help me get a read on either of them.
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FoS: Yuma
He's too good to trust, was off-wagon, and has been pushing an off-wagon lynch in a pro-town way. He's successfully deflected any attention away from him by driving the convo. See MnM for textbook Yuma scum.
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I don't think Jimmmmm will flip scum, so I won't contribute to his lynch.
I think Jorbles, mcmc, Ozle (same case on him as on Yuma), and Yuma are better lynches. With those, even mislynches tell us more than Jimmmmm-easy-lynch.
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FoS: Yuma
He's too good to trust, was off-wagon, and has been pushing an off-wagon lynch in a pro-town way. He's successfully deflected any attention away from him by driving the convo. See MnM for textbook Yuma scum.
then vote for me. But really do you think that the evidence points more greatly to me than say mcmc or Jimmmm where there are obvious interactions with Kooshie (Jimmmm being Kooshie's biggest town read, and mcmc blatantly defending the Kooshie lynch)?
Do you have any actual evidence? Or are you just saying this because your scum buddy (buddies) are under pressure?
Just because I am good at portraying town when I am scum, doesn't mean I am scum when I am town.
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I don't think Jimmmmm will flip scum, so I won't contribute to his lynch.
I think Jorbles, mcmc, Ozle (same case on him as on Yuma), and Yuma are better lynches. With those, even mislynches tell us more than Jimmmmm-easy-lynch.
I am not lynching anyone to find out information. I am lynching to lynch scum. What are you lynching for?
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FoS: Yuma
He's too good to trust, was off-wagon, and has been pushing an off-wagon lynch in a pro-town way. He's successfully deflected any attention away from him by driving the convo. See MnM for textbook Yuma scum.
then vote for me. But really do you think that the evidence points more greatly to me than say mcmc or Jimmmm where there are obvious interactions with Kooshie (Jimmmm being Kooshie's biggest town read, and mcmc blatantly defending the Kooshie lynch)?
Do you have any actual evidence? Or are you just saying this because your scum buddy (buddies) are under pressure?
Just because I am good at portraying town when I am scum, doesn't mean I am scum when I am town.
Ok. vote: yuma
Reasons:
You are probably the only player on f.ds advanced enough to kill Xeiron on purpose knowing we would push a newbie scum theory based on that.
You are leading town in circles, concentric ones spiraling away from you, specifically.
You haven't been consistent on D2: the latest three or so posts before you started responding to me were back and forth on Jimmmmm, for example.
You are ignoring possible scum play from Ozle happening right before your eyes.
Note, these are all D2 reasons, because scum!yuma doesn't give clues on D1. Most scum don't.
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(I know this looks scummy, oh well)
I actually agree with ashersky. Vote: yuma
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Jimmmmm has deterred my scumread off him, but yuma isn't scummy enough yet. Unvotefor now.
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Funny how Jimmm is only responding to Ozle in regard to something that is not part of the scummy case while effectively ignoring everyone else... you know the stuff that actually has merit
What exactly is Ozle's non-"newbie scum" case on me. This is all I could find:
1. Jimm - Scum lean for being off lynch all day
My votes on jimmmm for being off wagon, lurkiness, providing little content. All the Small Things added together really
Jimmmm - Most suscpious off wagon at the start of the Day. He 'im not newbie scum' defence was completely made up
So it's basically the lurking thing, which I've discussed and you either believe me or don't. And whatever Ozle says, even though he said he was rambling and said something was at odds with his newbie scum theory, he clearly said he was suspicious of me being newbie scum in #649 and #665:
For Jorbles
Off Wagon: mcmc, Jimmmm, Insomniac, sparky and yuma
MCMC has been quite a bit of scum lately, we all know how good Insomniac is. Yuma obvious is not new. Sparky I remmeber has been quite a bit.
Which leaves me most suspicious of Jimmm out of that bunch.
RNGs do not take into account who was scum most recently. Gambler's fallacy. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler%27s_fallacy) Maybe I'm misunderstanding your argument though. Are you saying that because Jimmmm hasn't played scum recently he'd be the least experienced as a scum player?
Yes, maybe I wasnt clear. Out of those I think Jimm has not been as much mafia scum as them recently, so is less practiced at it. Therefore still possibly fits into my newbie scum theory. (But that line of reasoning was only so I could try to keep my 'newbie scum' theory, which didnt look so brilliant by the end of my post after I thought it through')
Here he clearly says that he came to suspicion of me because he have not been scum lately and so am less practised at it. Yes, he also admits that it's not the best theory, but that's not the point. The point is, he came to the conclusion that he should vote for me by his newbie scum theory, or at the very least it had some involvement, and then tried to paint me as scummy for responding to it.
To be clear, I'm not arguing against the newbie scum theory. I'm arguing that arguing against the newbie scum theory wasn't the slightest bit scummy.
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FoS: Yuma
He's too good to trust, was off-wagon, and has been pushing an off-wagon lynch in a pro-town way. He's successfully deflected any attention away from him by driving the convo. See MnM for textbook Yuma scum.
then vote for me. But really do you think that the evidence points more greatly to me than say mcmc or Jimmmm where there are obvious interactions with Kooshie (Jimmmm being Kooshie's biggest town read, and mcmc blatantly defending the Kooshie lynch)?
Do you have any actual evidence? Or are you just saying this because your scum buddy (buddies) are under pressure?
Just because I am good at portraying town when I am scum, doesn't mean I am scum when I am town.
Ok. vote: yuma
Reasons:
You are probably the only player on f.ds advanced enough to kill Xeiron on purpose knowing we would push a newbie scum theory based on that.
You are leading town in circles, concentric ones spiraling away from you, specifically.
You haven't been consistent on D2: the latest three or so posts before you started responding to me were back and forth on Jimmmmm, for example.
You are ignoring possible scum play from Ozle happening right before your eyes.
Note, these are all D2 reasons, because scum!yuma doesn't give clues on D1. Most scum don't.
So let me get this right:
You are voting for me for...
1. because I have played scum well in the past (which has nothing to do with this game)
2. because you think I NK xeiron just to make people's heads spin... did you not see my quote from Robz's opening post? I still think there is a completely rational explanation as to why scum xeiron, we just don't see it yet.
3. Being inconsistent? I am not sure what you mean. If you mean am I not 100% sure Jimmmm is scum. Yes I am not sure. I think he is the best option today. But I don't know he is scum. I want him to respond and give more so I can better analyze him.
4. Ozle... what does his play have to do with me? I have said before that I am only focusing on people off wagon unless something crazy happens (ie mail-mi earlier today). Ozle hasn't done anything crazy. He might be scum, but right now he looks like he is just trying to find scum, kinda a null read for me right now.
You make no mention of any interactions between me and kooshie, because you say that scum doesn't give clues day1. Right like Galz didn't give a clue about mcmc in MXIX... there are plenty of other examples of scum giving clues. And you still didn't answer my question.
Do you think that I have a greater chance of being scum than mcmc or Jimmmmm who have obvious scummy interactions with Kooshie?
Oh and sudgy.... can you put this as your new avatar? (http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQZk9o-ZufMwgxMxtkjkmJVbjZtL9qIfFQS1alXBjs6IHhd_ce6)
Thanks
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Oh snap.
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Oh snap.
???????????
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He just called you a sheep. With a picture and everything.
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Oh, that's why. I just thought it was funny.
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I'm just messing around, don't worry about it.
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I'm just messing around, don't worry about it.
I wasn't. ash's case lacks everything a good case/vote should have. I don't understand how anyone could follow it with a vote unless they were blindly sheeping.
Ash's case really seems like either town!ash trying to cover all his bases as town (not wanting to get duped by scum!yuma, but there are far better ways of accomplishing that or scum!ash trying to divert a lynch from a scum buddy and onto one of the more proactive and/or, at least in my humble opinion, town leaders of this game.
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FoS: Yuma
He's too good to trust, was off-wagon, and has been pushing an off-wagon lynch in a pro-town way. He's successfully deflected any attention away from him by driving the convo. See MnM for textbook Yuma scum.
then vote for me. But really do you think that the evidence points more greatly to me than say mcmc or Jimmmm where there are obvious interactions with Kooshie (Jimmmm being Kooshie's biggest town read, and mcmc blatantly defending the Kooshie lynch)?
Do you have any actual evidence? Or are you just saying this because your scum buddy (buddies) are under pressure?
Just because I am good at portraying town when I am scum, doesn't mean I am scum when I am town.
Ok. vote: yuma
Reasons:
You are probably the only player on f.ds advanced enough to kill Xeiron on purpose knowing we would push a newbie scum theory based on that.
You are leading town in circles, concentric ones spiraling away from you, specifically.
You haven't been consistent on D2: the latest three or so posts before you started responding to me were back and forth on Jimmmmm, for example.
You are ignoring possible scum play from Ozle happening right before your eyes.
Note, these are all D2 reasons, because scum!yuma doesn't give clues on D1. Most scum don't.
So let me get this right:
You are voting for me for...
1. because I have played scum well in the past (which has nothing to do with this game)
2. because you think I NK xeiron just to make people's heads spin... did you not see my quote from Robz's opening post? I still think there is a completely rational explanation as to why scum xeiron, we just don't see it yet.
3. Being inconsistent? I am not sure what you mean. If you mean am I not 100% sure Jimmmm is scum. Yes I am not sure. I think he is the best option today. But I don't know he is scum. I want him to respond and give more so I can better analyze him.
4. Ozle... what does his play have to do with me? I have said before that I am only focusing on people off wagon unless something crazy happens (ie mail-mi earlier today). Ozle hasn't done anything crazy. He might be scum, but right now he looks like he is just trying to find scum, kinda a null read for me right now.
You make no mention of any interactions between me and kooshie, because you say that scum doesn't give clues day1. Right like Galz didn't give a clue about mcmc in MXIX... there are plenty of other examples of scum giving clues. And you still didn't answer my question.
Do you think that I have a greater chance of being scum than mcmc or Jimmmmm who have obvious scummy interactions with Kooshie?
A couple of issues to point out:
--On Ozle, you just proved my point. YOU said YOU will only focus off-wagon. Where was Ozle? OFFFRICKINGWAGONARGH. So you make a big show of searching off wagon but give scummish Ozle a pass. And "intent to hammer/disappear without voting/act indignant that someone else hammered" does not make you town OR honorarily on-wagon. It makes you scummy for setting yourself up to have an excuse to not hammer your teammate but still claim towniness points for having been willing to hammer. So you 100% ignoring Ozle is scummy, a reason for my vote, and confirmed by you in your response.
--On previous scum experience: I think that can't be ignored. It's how we read each other. You read me well due to playing against scum!me and modding scum!me. You also disagree often with town!e beliefs. So yes, I will take into account your past play, just like you take into account mine.
--O your question: I think you are more likely to flip scum than Jimmmmm. Probably about equal on mcmc, but raerae cleared him for now.
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I'm just messing around, don't worry about it.
I wasn't. ash's case lacks everything a good case/vote should have. I don't understand how anyone could follow it with a vote unless they were blindly sheeping.
Ash's case really seems like either town!ash trying to cover all his bases as town (not wanting to get duped by scum!yuma, but there are far better ways of accomplishing that or scum!ash trying to divert a lynch from a scum buddy and onto one of the more proactive and/or, at least in my humble opinion, town leaders of this game.
He was definitely sheeping. Sheeping a good case, though, so that's okay.
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Sorry... you are absolutely right. I have been considering ozle on wagon. At least for the past few days. I will have to address this and rethink, but it certainly does better explain your vote on me for now.
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--O your question: I think you are more likely to flip scum than Jimmmmm. Probably about equal on mcmc, but raerae cleared him for now.
oh right because raerae is a confirmed town IC Cop. I forgot.
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--O your question: I think you are more likely to flip scum than Jimmmmm. Probably about equal on mcmc, but raerae cleared him for now.
oh right because raerae is a confirmed town IC Cop. I forgot.
You know what I mean. It's clearly a meta thing. I'd vote mcmc if a deadline nears and he's the likeliest to go.
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Sorry... you are absolutely right. I have been considering ozle on wagon. At least for the past few days. I will have to address this and rethink, but it certainly does better explain your vote on me for now.
Thanks for seeing my point here.
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I had been getting kind of suspicious of yuma anyway at that point. And that was a better case than most in this game, and you said it was a horrible case. That just confirms my vote a bit more.
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Alright... let's take a look at Ozle now that I am actually aware that he was off-wagon.
I think he has been pretty townie because of his resitant--just as resistant as me--to map claiming. But again I think that scum players will just say what they would say as town, so that really doesn't mean anything.
I do think that Ozle is more proactive and more of a town leader than most other players in this game. He is scum hunting and asking probing questions.
His "intent to hammer" post basically came out of no where. Previous to that he had scum reads on Lekkit, eevee, insomniac and lio. Basically called a scum team at one point. But not much about Kooshie.
he does say this... criticizing Lekkit's vote on kooshie.
Lekkit says that Kooshie has not posted any thing of substance, well the same applies to you Lekkit, I dont remember anything of substance you have said this game apart from agree with Lipoli.
You may have said something, but none of it has stuck in my mind.
why he was willing to hammer kooshie
Ok, reasons why I am stating intent to the Hammer to Fall
What are our chances of catching scum Day1? Its pretty random.
Its Day 1, there are no good cases, there are no good leads, there have been no scumslips. The only person I dont want to lynch at the moment is sudgy, purely because im hoping he can get that key for town.
I dont have a town read on Kooshie, same as I pretty much dont have a town read on most people so it might as well be Kooshie.
The Kooshie case is weak, realllly weak, but its the best case we have (as no one seems to be looking at Eevee with me!) and I seriously doubt we are going to find abetter one on Day1. If this was Day2 then it would be majorly different.
Primarily, lets get this day done and then we can have longer days when we have actual information
Kooshie, if you have something to share that would help the town, now is the time.....
but then was pre-empted by xeiron... seriously guys this is why we don't do that.
[aside]Here actually is a reason that xeiron was NK. Perhaps scum knows how people get coins? And there is an incentive for players to be the hammer on a scum player and they get a bunch of coins... scum knew this---or hypothized this--and as such NK xeiron--although he would probably be a better target for pillaging... but this is getting into that sketchy area of talking about game dynamics, so I am doing to stop [/aside]
He then had his "did anyone start in a hallway" thing going on. Seems kinda townie, but also I could very much see scum Ozle trying to use this as a way to divert town and also establish some town credit. Hasn't he tried similar gambits in the past? Nothing really came from that did it?
I don't really see the "scumminess" that ashersky seems to be alluding to. Ash you were refering to jimmmm/ozle interactions right? I don't see that so much as scummy, but more as scum hunting and confusing posts/misunderstandings.
But I do see how he could be scum from his change in direction in his "intent to hammer" but I don't think that is even close to the direct relationships that have been established by Jimmm/mcmc in regard to kooshie.
And that was really what I was asking you about when I asked if you thought I was scummier than those two. And I am still surprised because those two things are huge! I mean they are direct correlations between a scum player and other players off wagon. So when you vote for me instead you are basically ignoring them and calling them non-significant, which I guess I strongly disagree with.
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I had been getting kind of suspicious of yuma anyway at that point. And that was a better case than most in this game, and you said it was a horrible case. That just confirms my vote a bit more.
but again I ask: is this "case" more worthwhile than the obvious relationships that have been established between kooshie and mcmc/jimmm?
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Raerae CLEARING mcmc is just utterly ridiculous. Sorry, but it is. I can see "I feel I should trust raeraes's read and not vote for him" maybe, but clearing is SUCH a strong word. Just wow.
FoS: Yuma
He's too good to trust, was off-wagon, and has been pushing an off-wagon lynch in a pro-town way. He's successfully deflected any attention away from him by driving the convo. See MnM for textbook Yuma scum.
I don't think you can FoS yuma for playing in a pro town way. So unfair. Yeah, he is one of the very few guys who are capable of playing this type of a game as scum, but still. Playing in a (seemingly) pro-town way and well simply CAN NOT make him more scummy!! Unless you claim he (seemingly) plays town better as scum?
Fwiw, I think Ozle is more likely to flip scum than Jimmm. Wouldn't mind that lynch, would mind a yuma lynch unless given some real reasons and not just that "he seems helpful and is good at playing scum -> is scum here". People, he is a good player who has drawn scum a lot recently. Not like he has a record of being useless as town or anything like that.
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FoS: Yuma
He's too good to trust, was off-wagon, and has been pushing an off-wagon lynch in a pro-town way. He's successfully deflected any attention away from him by driving the convo. See MnM for textbook Yuma scum.
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Sorry, the second post was not intentional.
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I think an Ozle lynch has merit. Ozle is more likely to flip scum than Yuma, I'd say. I mean, my case on Yuma had a lot to do with how I think he was letting scummy Ozle slide, so I should consider that Ozle should be lynched.
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I had been getting kind of suspicious of yuma anyway at that point. And that was a better case than most in this game, and you said it was a horrible case. That just confirms my vote a bit more.
but again I ask: is this "case" more worthwhile than the obvious relationships that have been established between kooshie and mcmc/jimmm?
I don't really see Jimmmmm and Kooshie tied like I do mcmc and her.
Ozle has been actively scummier, where jimmmmm has be more lurky.
Lynch pref now:
Ozle >>> Yuma >>> Jorbles >>> mcmc
Vote: Ozle
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Vote: Ozle my precious vote is doing almost nothing at mcmc atm.
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Well that's a convincing yumas-not-scum case. Unvote
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Okay for one, I can't wait for this game to be over and everyone to know that raerae is in fact correct once again.
Second I am absolutely furious at this game. Jimm and insom if you are town I am furious with you you have done nothing the entire game as when you do post you are so anti town it's ridiculous.
Jimm: said he would reread, STILL NEVER HAS, he had time to argue with ozzle but cannot bother to read along with the game and post a productive comment on anyone. Everyone un voting him because he is being towny is insane.
Insom: you have also posted nothing and when you do frankly you just correct other people with somewhat of an attitude.
I hope the two of you are scum and just fooling town into unvoting, if so bravo. If your town start contributing, if you are busy that is absolutely fine, but when you DO post, be helpful.
This is the thing most people are reducing my argument on Jimm to "he's not posting enough" it's not. It's that he isn't posting often so he's at a position where he isn't helping town all that much and main point, WHEN HE DOES POST, all he does is say sorry ill keep reread soon, and then says nothing. He has made a few comments about matters not involving scum hunting, map claiming ect.
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Okay, no. I think the cases on ozle and yuma are really terrible... they've been way more pro-town than lots of other's. I'm going back to Vote: Jimmmmm for now
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My lunch preferences (in no particular order)
Ham, turkey, roast beef Jimmmm, ozle, insom,
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Alright, Vote: Ozle (jk, just doing this to pretend to sheep again).
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Unofficial count
Jimm (5) -- Ozle, Jorbles, mcmcsalot, yuma, liopoil {L-3}
sudgy (1) -- Insomniac
yuma (1) -- sudgy
Ozle (2) -- ashersky, Eevee
Not Voting (5) -- sparky5856, Jimm, Lekkit, raerae, liopoil
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Well that's a convincing yumas-not-scum case. Unvote
Did you think you were voting for me? Because you weren't. You just unvoted an unvote.... That is weird.
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Well that's a convincing yumas-not-scum case. Unvote
Did you think you were voting for me? Because you weren't. You just unvoted an unvote.... That is weird.
Maybe I'm naive but I also think it's towny. Scum is usually self-conscious and aware of where their vote lies.
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So let's just be completely honest... we probably aren't going to reach a consensus with 5+ people not voting... I am looking at you (raerae, Lekkit, sparky). Right now we have ~ 6 players moving the game along and shifting their votes trying to find a consensus and a good lynch, but it just won't be possible until we get other players to play with us.
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Alright, let's try this again: everybody say who they would be willing to vote for. I'm not sure about myself, I have a fair amount of people. Jimmmmm, Insomniac, yuma, and ozle to name the biggest ones.
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Well that's a convincing yumas-not-scum case. Unvote
Did you think you were voting for me? Because you weren't. You just unvoted an unvote.... That is weird.
I'm not not voting. Draw your own conclusions.
Yeah, I thought I was voting for you. Oopsies.
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Well that's a convincing yumas-not-scum case. Unvote
Are you referring to yuma's defense of himself?
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So let's just be completely honest... we probably aren't going to reach a consensus with 5+ people not voting... I am looking at you (raerae, Lekkit, sparky). Right now we have ~ 6 players moving the game along and shifting their votes trying to find a consensus and a good lynch, but it just won't be possible until we get other players to play with us.
Agreed. This is an issue that often leads to a convenient mislynch to move the game forward, and why we like to say lurkers are scum.
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--On Ozle, you just proved my point. YOU said YOU will only focus off-wagon. Where was Ozle? OFFFRICKINGWAGONARGH. So you make a big show of searching off wagon but give scummish Ozle a pass. And "intent to hammer/disappear without voting/act indignant that someone else hammered" does not make you town OR honorarily on-wagon. It makes you scummy for setting yourself up to have an excuse to not hammer your teammate but still claim towniness points for having been willing to hammer. So you 100% ignoring Ozle is scummy, a reason for my vote, and confirmed by you in your response.
Most ludacris thing ever Not quite I suppose
What would you rather have me do, vote straight away and quickhammer?
I stated my intent to vote, then waited for Kooshie to respond. I did NOT dissapear, as you can see from when I posted my indignation about Xeiron
What you have people do next time at L-1, just hammer without saying anything?
So your reasons to push a vote on me are what exactly:
That I was off wagon, sure, can agree with that
And that I am disagreeing with you
So basically im scummy because I didnt quickhammer right?
Ok, Asherskys case against me.....
....................*looks at voting post and before*
Is there one?
Nope
Eevees case against me.....
................*looks at voting post and before*
Is there one?
Nope
No one find that a little bit suspicious?
Funny that these two were on my 'would vote for ' earlier in the day...
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To clarify, because I assume someone will take that the wrong way, the thing I am saying is untrue there is that i stated vote to intent and then dissapeared, I did no such thing. I sat around the forums waiting for Kooshie to respond.
As can bee seen from the timestamps
My intent
Xeirons hammer 13 minutes later
My response to Xeirons hammer came 3 minutes later.
So unless you are accusing me of dissapearing for 16 whole minutes, thats demonstratably wrong.
Also, there is a statement in there again that I am scummy, without absolute no actual reason for that scumminess provided.
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Indignant Ozle is my favorite Ozle.
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To clarify, because I assume someone will take that the wrong way, the thing I am saying is untrue there is that i stated vote to intent and then dissapeared, I did no such thing. I sat around the forums waiting for Kooshie to respond.
As can bee seen from the timestamps
My intent
Xeirons hammer 13 minutes later
My response to Xeirons hammer came 3 minutes later.
So unless you are accusing me of dissapearing for 16 whole minutes, thats demonstratably wrong.
Also, there is a statement in there again that I am scummy, without absolute no actual reason for that scumminess provided.
Ok, fair to say you did not disappear. Still, you don't get to be on-wagon because X stole your hammer. You were off-wagon. OFF. Not on. Scum was lynched, and not by you. That is suspect.
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Ozle, my suspicion stems from you caring that much if you look scummy or not and from you seeming eagerness to assign blame left and right, sometimes for pretty flimsy reasons.
You are also just a little too polished. You usually haven't been. I think I change in
behavior could very well be because you want to play the perfect scum game.
I think lists of five make it very easy for scum.
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And that whole hallway thing. That was a fishing expedition if I ever saw one.
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Ozle my main concern with you wasn't that you didn't hammer kooshie, but rather that your willingness to hammer kooshie came out of nowhere. As far as I could tell the only time you mentioned kooshie leading up to his lynch was this:
Lekkit says that Kooshie has not posted any thing of substance, well the same applies to you Lekkit, I dont remember anything of substance you have said this game apart from agree with Lipoli.
You may have said something, but none of it has stuck in my mind.
where in you criticize lekkit for his vote on kooshie.
That is what is suspicious to me. You had scum reads on a lot of other players before (eevee, insomniac, lekkit) but not on kooshie. But once he is about to be lynched, you join in on the wagon by declaring intent to hammer. The change is suspicious, not the intent.
HOWEVER!
I do not consider it more suspicious than the much more obvious interactions between kooshie and Jimmmm and mcmc. And I fail to see how eevee and ash can 1. find you more suspicious than those two considering those two things even with everything I mention above and 2. find you more suspicious but never mention what I did above and rely more on meta arguments.
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I think we should just lynch Jimmmmm. It seems unlikely that we will be able to come to a consensus on anyone else soon... and I still think Jimmmmm is the scummiest.
That said, I think lekkit is lurking the most. (well, sparky is lurking more, but he hasn't even been online and may be replaced). A mail-mi lynch isn't going to happen today because of his claim, and I really don't like the cases on yuma/ozle (especially because they are very high contributers). I don't know why insom has gotten more attention for lurking than lekkit (could be a sign that lekkit is scum), because I think insom has contributed more than him. There is the fact that lekkit was on-wagon and insom was off, but insom just wasn't around and lekkit's vote was hardly towny... Sparky isn't going to be lynched because he isn't talking... eevee, jorbles, and sudgy are early enough on the kooshie wagon for me to not suspect them... liopoil is town... I still have a townread on mcmc for being against the kooshie lynch, and finally ashersky and raerae don't really have much of a reason to be suspected.
So, by POE, we have lekkit and Jimmmmm remaining.
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not that everyone else shouldn't be suspected (obviously at least one of the people I "ruled out" must be scum), but I don't think they are good lynches today.
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not that everyone else shouldn't be suspected (obviously at least one of the people I "ruled out" must be scum), but I don't think they are good lynches today.
exactly, except I don't buy the mcmc defending kooshie thing. That is a red flag to me. But as a town we seem to be stretching and creating cases mostly out of nothing when there are two great options in jimmmm and mcmc. I guess I don't understand why we are pursuing these less likely lynches when there are great options available. Mostly it seems like people are ignoring solid evidence in favor of meta arguments and gut reads.
Because I have seen nothing that even comes close to as solid as jimmmm and mcmc.
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vote: jimmmmmm
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Vote Count 2.8
Jimm (6) -- Ozle, Jorbles, mcmcsalot, yuma, liopoil, mail-mi {L-2}
sudgy (1) -- Insomniac
yuma (1) -- sudgy
Ozle (2) -- ashersky, Eevee
Not Voting (4) -- sparky5856, Jimm, Lekkit, raerae
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. The game ends on April 29th at 7:00 PM. There are 30 days left.
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yuma, it's not as much trusting my gut over the facts, more like "bad at argumenting where the suspicion comes from". The bad feeling is caused by his sudden jump to Kooshie.
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so, who else is willing to vote jimmmmm? sudgy? eevee?
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If we start eating too much into our time I'll just mapclaim and self-hammer.
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Or rather self-vote.
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Notes on mail-mi:
1. Went after lio D1 for his "scummy" defense but never explained why it was scummy. I absolutely despise this. It is the easiest thing in the world to say something is scummy and let somebody else come up with the reason why.
2. He voted for patpat for lurking, then insom for lurking, then voted for lio because he disagreed with him, but was reluctant to vote lurking Kooshie. The sudden hesitance to lynch a lurker seems more like trying to protect a partner than trying to be smart about a lynch considering how eager he was to vote the other lurkers.
3. #793 is awful. He either just drew a night kill with something town-friendly in his pocket, or he's scum hoping to avoid a lynch. It was an extra weird claim considering lio was only lightly suspicious of him at the time. I don't remember mail-mi being this jumpy in past games. This, and his vote "test", just seem like a gamble to avoid a lynch.
I could keep going with individual scummy things, and certainly will if needed, but I think the above combined with his total lack of content is enough.
Vote: mail-mi
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mail-mi is very scummy, and #793 is awful. However, #793 makes it a bad idea to lynch him today. If he is town, we definatly don't want to lynch someone who has access to a PR, and is town. If he is scum, then he is super scummy tommorow because he won't be NKed, and can be considered for a lynch more then.
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mail-mi is very scummy, and #793 is awful. However, #793 makes it a bad idea to lynch him today. If he is town, we definatly don't want to lynch someone who has access to a PR, and is town. If he is scum, then he is super scummy tommorow because he won't be NKed, and can be considered for a lynch more then.
Or you just gave scum a reason NOT to NK him because he's an easy mislynch if he survives.
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I understand that, and there will be WIFOM about that tommorow. I mean, that was really obvious anyway... honestly, I think there is a less that 50% chance of him being NKed, even if he is town.
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This day can end before we burn through all bankable time, right?
I get the feeling this day is going nowhere.
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We are at even parity...we could no lynch.
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We are at even parity...we could no lynch.
Well what do you think about mail-mi, ash? Am I barking up this tree too late or is it a possibility?
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We could, if we feel like we need another night of info... but if we don't then I still think it is best to no lynch at mylo.
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We are at even parity...we could no lynch.
Well what do you think about mail-mi, ash? Am I barking up this tree too late or is it a possibility?
I think bad town is more likely than scum, honestly. And if he's scum, he's not the dangerous member of the team, a la Ozle/Yuma.
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I will gladly take the lynch if it isn't gonna be jimmmmm. That was a stupid mistake of me and I'm not the most valuable town right now.
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Gah, Vote: Jimmmmm. This day is dragging on...
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Should I let you guys know what I know?
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Screw it, I'm doing it. I think knowing this will help us more than them.
In the middle of my map there is a big grey square (okay, technically it's a rectangle oriented up-down, but it's nearly a square) containing a smaller red square with a door at the bottom of the red square. The grey square is connected at the bottom by a door to a darkish green oval with the long direction going left to right. On the left of the big grey square there are two small orange squares one on top of the other, both with a door to the large grey square. Above the two orange squares is a medium-sized light blue that as far as I can see has no doors to any other room I can see.
On top of the big grey square is another medium-sized light blue square. This room did contain a Watchtower, which let you see who else was in the same room, as well as a Treasure Map, which allows you to see the whole map. Both of these have been used. It also contains Nobles, which lets you make a Neighbourhood for two other people (not yourself). As far as I know it's still there.
Above this room there is a larger white room, which is not connected by a door as far as I can see.
To the right of this light blue room and connected by a door there is a thin grey rectangle oriented left to right.
To the right of the top right corner of the large grey square is a small orange square. It's connected by a door to the large grey square, and is adjacent to the thin grey rectangle, but I can't see a door there.
Beneath the small orange square is a medium/large lime green rectangle. It is also adjacent to the large grey square, but not connected by a door. I can't see a door from the small orange square to the lime green square.
Beneath the lime green square is another small orange square. It's connected by a door to the large grey square, but I can't see a door to the green square. In this orange square there is a Scheme which lets you send a message of up to 200 words to another player, and a Fortune Teller which lets you name 4 players and be told if at least one of them is scum.
To the right of the top right corner of the orange square is a thin grey rectangle orientated left to right. There is a door between them.
Underneath the grey rectangle and adjacent to the orange square, but without any doors that I can see is a medium sized darkish pink rectangle orientated left to right.
If it matters, the Watchtower cost $3, the Treasure map $6, the Nobles $7, the Scheme $3 and the Fortune Teller $6.
Hopefully there is a Townie or two who is close enough to benefit from this information. You may lynch me now to get to night and so you can know that you can trust this. Good luck!
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Notes on mail-mi:
1. Went after lio D1 for his "scummy" defense but never explained why it was scummy. I absolutely despise this. It is the easiest thing in the world to say something is scummy and let somebody else come up with the reason why.
2. He voted for patpat for lurking, then insom for lurking, then voted for lio because he disagreed with him, but was reluctant to vote lurking Kooshie. The sudden hesitance to lynch a lurker seems more like trying to protect a partner than trying to be smart about a lynch considering how eager he was to vote the other lurkers.
3. #793 is awful. He either just drew a night kill with something town-friendly in his pocket, or he's scum hoping to avoid a lynch. It was an extra weird claim considering lio was only lightly suspicious of him at the time. I don't remember mail-mi being this jumpy in past games. This, and his vote "test", just seem like a gamble to avoid a lynch.
I could keep going with individual scummy things, and certainly will if needed, but I think the above combined with his total lack of content is enough.
Vote: mail-mi
Vote: mail-mi sounds fine. Raerae IS very good at this.
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Should I let you guys know what I know?
No, but thanks for not waiting for input...
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Should I let you guys know what I know?
No, but thanks for not waiting for input...
No worries! :)
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Should I let you guys know what I know?
No, but thanks for not waiting for input...
If he is scum, his team already knew that. So, at least he genuinely thinks the information would help town (or help him not get lynched, I guess).
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Should I let you guys know what I know?
No, but thanks for not waiting for input...
If he is scum, his team already knew that. So, at least he genuinely thinks the information would help town (or help him not get lynched, I guess).
or if he is town... which is a possibility even with the high likelyhood that he is scum based on te evidence... it is super bad because it gives mafia information that they just shouldn't have. Whatever. The point is that he decided to give this information w/o discussing it with town. Maybe I am wrong, but he should have at least waited to hear what others said. I think he wanted to put it out there before he was hammered in the hopes that it would get a couple of unvotes and save him.
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I already said I was against it earlier...
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Jimm: Contributing, giving opinions, no reads, really, but otherwise very towny.
yuma, unless I'm missing something, this is your only "evidence". How often do scum name teammates as their "top Town reads"? Certainly not often enough to consider it solid evidence. But if you repeat the word evidence enough times people start to believe that there is actually lots of solid evidence. You're better than that.
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Jimm: Contributing, giving opinions, no reads, really, but otherwise very towny.
yuma, unless I'm missing something, this is your only "evidence". How often do scum name teammates as their "top Town reads"? Certainly not often enough to consider it solid evidence. But if you repeat the word evidence enough times people start to believe that there is actually lots of solid evidence. You're better than that.
it isn't a surefire case. I know that. As for how often does scum do that? Not super often. But often enough I think. It really is hard to say a bit, especially because we have had so few day1 lynches. And I could see newbie scum, which is what Kooshie was, as doing it. But what really strikes me is that kooshie called you "very townie" when you obviously weren't. You weren't contributing very much and as far as opinions... I don't really remember anything aside from some map claiming suggestions. So maybe kooshie was just BSing here. That is possible.
As for your emotional appeal... trying to make me feel guilty... you are better than that.
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and why is it taking you so long to bring this up. I have been saying this for days... but just now you are remembering to say something?
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Archetype has replaced sparky5856. It may take him some time to catch up; remember how many questions all of you had about the map? So be patient with him.
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If jimmmmm flips town, Yuma knows we are coming after him hard for pushing a mislynch against all opposition.
Basically, jimmmmm flips town (as I think he will) and I open D3 with a Yuma vote that will not go away.
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Yay archetype! does anyone have info to counterclaim what Jimmmmm has said? that would make me feel a lot better about lynching jimmmmm...
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Jimm: Contributing, giving opinions, no reads, really, but otherwise very towny.
yuma, unless I'm missing something, this is your only "evidence". How often do scum name teammates as their "top Town reads"? Certainly not often enough to consider it solid evidence. But if you repeat the word evidence enough times people start to believe that there is actually lots of solid evidence. You're better than that.
STOP, that is not the only evidence. First everyone pretends the only evidence against Jimm is that he is lurking so when he comes back everyone unvotes. Now we're pretending the whe case is kooshie having a town read of him. This is all additional evidence to the fact tha he has not contributed positively toward town. When someone does nothing but say "I'll catch up soon" and then never does it, when he pushes for a map claim, twice, and then map claims himself even though all of town has decided it was a bad idea. He is playin to not get lynched not to help town this is all evidence that he is scum.
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If jimmmmm flips town, Yuma knows we are coming after him hard for pushing a mislynch against all opposition.
Basically, jimmmmm flips town (as I think he will) and I open D3 with a Yuma vote that will not go away.
Since when did the 6 other people voting for him turn into all opposition. Are you saying those 6 people don't actually think Jimm is scum as are just outsides by Yuma? I know multiple people were on Jimm before I looked at him and then I very much found him scummy due to my own reread.
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If jimmmmm flips town, Yuma knows we are coming after him hard for pushing a mislynch against all opposition.
Basically, jimmmmm flips town (as I think he will) and I open D3 with a Yuma vote that will not go away.
Whaat? Why?
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Alright, so you won't be getting it today (it's my birthday just logged on quick to check on this game). But I still think Sudgy is very scummy and I will compile my case on the matter tomorrow. If Jimmmmm get's lynched today I'll have it prepared for Day 3. Please EVERYONE note the bold section, we can infer mafia will, so you may be able to derive information from that on Day 3 in the unlikely case I am the night kill.
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unvote
vote: ashersky
I am at the point where I strongly believe that ash is scum (I have had inklings of suspiciouns throughout yesterday and now more so today), and believe that he knows Jimmmm is town and is letting the mislynch slide so he can get a mislynch on me the next day.
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why so confident that ash is scum?
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Alright, so you won't be getting it today (it's my birthday just logged on quick to check on this game). But I still think Sudgy is very scummy and I will compile my case on the matter tomorrow. If Jimmmmm get's lynched today I'll have it prepared for Day 3. Please EVERYONE note the bold section, we can infer mafia will, so you may be able to derive information from that on Day 3 in the unlikely case I am the night kill.
Happy birthday! Yeah, if you get nkd I will definitely be looking at sudgy.
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why so confident that ash is scum?
I don't have time to present a case as I am about to leave for the day. But for one he is playing a different game this time. 2. I have been very good at reading ashersky (a la raerae on mcmc) 3. he is obviously setting me up for a mislynch tomorrow (I am town and know that I am town and know it will be a mislynch) 4. his unwillingness to join either the mcmc or jimmmm wagons makes me think that he is either protecting scum buddies--more likely mcmc at this point--or is scum not wanting to get on a mislynch 5. his vote on mcmc was toward the end of the wagon and looked like a jump on to be on wagon.
But I'll go through everything later today.
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Hey guys!
I've been vaguely following, so give me until at least Monday to re-read.
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Hey guys!
I've been vaguely following, so give me until at least Monday to re-read.
Actually, make that Tuesday. It'd be hard to re-read today with Easter and all that.
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this sheep actually sees the ashersky suspicion. rather ashersky than Jimmm.
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Yuma why do you think I'm scummy, I keep seeing you make connections to me and Jimm and kooshie, do you just mean me and kooshie and Jimm and kooshie? Or do you think I protected my buddy day 1 and am bussing hard day 2??? I mean really if you think Jimm is scum how in the world am I scum...
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Alright, so you won't be getting it today (it's my birthday just logged on quick to check on this game). But I still think Sudgy is very scummy and I will compile my case on the matter tomorrow. If Jimmmmm get's lynched today I'll have it prepared for Day 3. Please EVERYONE note the bold section, we can infer mafia will, so you may be able to derive information from that on Day 3 in the unlikely case I am the night kill.
I'm going to make a bit of a defense before you do this, I'm always like this. Read MXXI (you don't need to) and you'll see I was suspected the entire game and in the end was mislynched for a flawless mafia win.
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Also, we really need to end this. We're going to have no days left by the end, and we don't that happening.
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Yeah... at this point I'm willing to vote for most people to get a lynch... but I think jimmmmm is the best lynch, especially because he claimed. Lynching him verifies if we can trust his info, and if he stays alive scum knows stuff about his location and items he may have bought.
About that treasure map Jimmmmm said was bought... if that was scum, then they know where all the rooms are already...
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Vote Count 2.9
Jimm (6) -- Ozle, Jorbles, mcmcsalot, liopoil, mail-mi, sudgy {L-2}
sudgy (1) -- Insomniac
mail-mi (2) -- raerae, Eevee
ashersky (1) yuma
Not Voting (3) -- Archetype, Jimm, Lekkit
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. The game ends on April 29th at 7:00 PM. There are 29 days left.
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We have 29 days to end this...umm Yuma you still think Jimm is scum? Arch on reread let me know. I think Jimm is the best lynch and the most likely and we need to lynch someone.
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Vote: No lynch
I'll go back to Jimmmmm if he's actually going to be lynched... or maybe someone else too if they might actually be lynched.
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Vote: No lynch
I'll go back to Jimmmmm if he's actually going to be lynched... or maybe someone else too if they might actually be lynched.
Okay I'll lynch liopoil now. Sorry but how does unvoting help him get lynched. No lynx absolutely does NOT help town. So all you are doing is stalling the game. Scum noticing how long it's taking us wants to take advantage of it.
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I'm doing quite the opposite. I would rather no-lynch later, but unless we have a 0 or 2 kill night then we're going to do it eventually, and might as well do it now because we need to get to night. My vote is essentially still on Jimmmmm, and would still prefer that he gets lynched. It's just that the lynch has stalled and doesn't look to me like it is going to happen soon. If he gets to L-1, or even back to L-2 I'll put my vote back.
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I'm doing quite the opposite. I would rather no-lynch later, but unless we have a 0 or 2 kill night then we're going to do it eventually, and might as well do it now because we need to get to night. My vote is essentially still on Jimmmmm, and would still prefer that he gets lynched. It's just that the lynch has stalled and doesn't look to me like it is going to happen soon. If he gets to L-1, or even back to L-2 I'll put my vote back.
Well, if you want jimmmm lynched then vote for him! No lunch is never gonna happen!
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unvote
vote: ashersky
I am at the point where I strongly believe that ash is scum (I have had inklings of suspiciouns throughout yesterday and now more so today), and believe that he knows Jimmmm is town and is letting the mislynch slide so he can get a mislynch on me the next day.
At least I've finally gotten you to misread me. Too bad it's when I'm town.
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If jimmmmm flips town, Yuma knows we are coming after him hard for pushing a mislynch against all opposition.
Basically, jimmmmm flips town (as I think he will) and I open D3 with a Yuma vote that will not go away.
Since when did the 6 other people voting for him turn into all opposition. Are you saying those 6 people don't actually think Jimm is scum as are just outsides by Yuma? I know multiple people were on Jimm before I looked at him and then I very much found him scummy due to my own reread.
If jimmmmm flips town, Yuma knows we are coming after him hard for pushing a mislynch against all opposition.
Basically, jimmmmm flips town (as I think he will) and I open D3 with a Yuma vote that will not go away.
Whaat? Why?
I'm willing to vote mcmc or Eevee now. If they are both willing to act like Yuma hasn't been the driving force being the Jimmmmm mislynch, they are scum or willful bad towny sheep.
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being = behind
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What? I'm not saying yuma isn't one of the main drivers behind the Jimmm lynch. How does that mean he is automatically scum if Jimmm is town? Is it that anytime someone pushes a case on someone that flips town, you vote for that person, or if there something special about this case?
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What? I'm not saying yuma isn't one of the main drivers behind the Jimmm lynch. How does that mean he is automatically scum if Jimmm is town? Is it that anytime someone pushes a case on someone that flips town, you vote for that person, or if there something special about this case?
There needs to be accountability for pushing something so hard without concrete evidence (such as an investigation result, etc.), so that's part of it. He won't even consider others outside his named scum team of mcmc and jimmmmm. That kind of tunnel vision is bad town play at best, or smart scum play. He'll have the perfect out tomorrow: "why would scum push SO hard for a mislynch" he'll argue.
And this is why, I think.
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I agree with yuma in that inherently the people off yesterdays wagon are scummier. I got a townie feeling from Jimm's scrambling, but I dont think he is necessary scum for disagreeing if I was right.
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Townies just dont know. Cant blame yuma for trying to end the day by pushing "hard" either.
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I voted no lynch because I thought it was possible that enough people were ready for the day to end to do that. I guess that is not the case, so Vote: Jimmmmm
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I agree with yuma in that inherently the people off yesterdays wagon are scummier. I got a townie feeling from Jimm's scrambling, but I dont think he is necessary scum for disagreeing if I was right.
Wasn't Yuma off wagon?
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Yuma why do you think I'm scummy, I keep seeing you make connections to me and Jimm and kooshie, do you just mean me and kooshie and Jimm and kooshie? Or do you think I protected my buddy day 1 and am bussing hard day 2??? I mean really if you think Jimm is scum how in the world am I scum...
Yes... or rather no... or rather let me explain better.
Out of everyone that kooshie had interactions with I felt that his interactions with mcmc and jimmmm were the most compelling... even though they were complete opposites. Your townread on him and his townread on jimmmmm. I think--or rather thought as I have started to change my mind ever so slightly--that this was the best place to be looking for scum. However, I do not necessarily think that you and jimmmm are connected. Possible, yes, but not for sure.
To clarify, I think one of you is scum. Both of you is possible, but certainly less likely.
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What? I'm not saying yuma isn't one of the main drivers behind the Jimmm lynch. How does that mean he is automatically scum if Jimmm is town? Is it that anytime someone pushes a case on someone that flips town, you vote for that person, or if there something special about this case?
There needs to be accountability for pushing something so hard without concrete evidence (such as an investigation result, etc.), so that's part of it. He won't even consider others outside his named scum team of mcmc and jimmmmm. That kind of tunnel vision is bad town play at best, or smart scum play. He'll have the perfect out tomorrow: "why would scum push SO hard for a mislynch" he'll argue.
And this is why, I think.
Qué? So many things wrong with this....
One: "named scum team of mcmc and jimmmmm." I have never named mcmc and jimmm as a scum team. as I said to mcmc above I think they both are most likely to be scum, if you felt I implied otherwise, I am sorry, but that is never what I meant to say. I speculated on it at one point and asked that they provide reads on each other but quickly realized that mcmc was in fact voting for jimmmm
Two: "He won't even consider others outside." I am voting for you, I have voted for mail-mi. I heavily considered Ozle after you pointed out that he was off wagon, something that I had forgotten. Really the only people I am not considering are Insomniac, because I think he is town after I considered him, and people early on the Kooshie wagon.
Three: "That kind of tunnel vision is bad town play at best" As I say before I have considered other options... what about everyone else who has only voted for jimmmm all freaking day long?
Four: "or smart scum play" no... what you are really saying here is that it is bad scum play, that scum!yuma will then use to WIFOM everyone by saying, scum!yuma would never play that bad... except that scum!yuma doesn't use those type of meta arguments. That is the sort of argument that you use and which I find to be ridiculous and which I have criticized repeatedly... see this game in which I criticize jimmmm's meta-defense when he said he wouldn't be such bad scum as to kill xeiron. Those arguments hold no water and are consistently ignored.
Five: "concrete evidence" yes, my evidence isn't as strong as an investigation result. Obviously. But it is soooo much stronger than your weak meta arguments that you consistently apply and are currently applying. We have direct relationships between confirmed scum and townies. That is solid evidence. Maybe it isn't "concrete" like an investigation, but hey! we dont' have an investigation right now, so I am going off the most solid stuff we have.
Ash is scum. It doesn't look like anyone wants to join me though. Whatever. Either he is scum trying to protect his scum buddy jimmmm or he is scum letting jimmmmm get mislynched and then trying to get me mislynched tomorrow. <I am sure ash is going to have something bad to say about this last sentence, but hey, I'll let him say it... I dont' want to ruin the fun of letting him say it for himself>
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vote: jimmmm
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Oh cool, this lynch might actually happen! let's quickhammer him, it worked out D1! ;)
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yuma, if I hammer Jimmmmm, will it change your mind about me?
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Ash, if I unvote, then you vote and I can has hammer? It would be my first one.
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Ash, if I unvote, then you vote and I can has hammer? It would be my first one.
I don't want to lynch Jimmmmm; I want to see what yuma will say if I agree to lynch him against my own best judgement.
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Hmm I've read the last few pages (didn't go all the way back), but I didn't see anything that made me not want to vote for Jimmm. I can confirm that some of what Jimmmm said is true in his claim, but not all of it. Nor does the fact that he said it make him any townier really. Both scum and town can walk around the map and look at things. He didn't report anything that I thought was really helpful to town anyways.
This yuma vs ashersky battle is interesting, but I don't have a strong opinion on it yet, I'd probably need more time to read up on it. I had a town read on both of these players before this weekend started, but I'll have to reread them I guess.
Does it seem weird to anyone that mail-mi really wants to hammer? I guess there's no real game based reason to want or not want to be the hammer so it's just unusual and not scummy or towny.
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I think mail-mi has a game based reason to want to hammer. this is scummy because scum knows more and would therefore have a better chance of knowing something we don't. why would he want to hammer if he didn't have a game-based reason?
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He is under the impression hammering, or hammering scum more likely, gets you coins. Fos liopoil for finding that somewhat scummy it's sorta obvious multiple people feel that way.
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Ash, if I unvote, then you vote and I can has hammer? It would be my first one.
you are so scummy!
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He is under the impression hammering, or hammering scum more likely, gets you coins. Fos liopoil for finding that somewhat scummy it's sorta obvious multiple people feel that way.
no mail-mi is the scummy one. Why should mail-mi get the coins. If there are coins? Who knows whether or not there are coins.... maybe you get negative coins? All I know is putting stats above the game is stupid.
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yuma, if I hammer Jimmmmm, will it change your mind about me?
you do whatever you want. After the flip I will reanalyze as I always do. You may be scummier, you may be townier. I won't guarantee anything at this juncture and feel that it would be inappropriate to encourage or discourage you to vote with the reward or punishment of my reads on you.
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He is under the impression hammering, or hammering scum more likely, gets you coins. Fos liopoil for finding that somewhat scummy it's sorta obvious multiple people feel that way.
no mail-mi is the scummy one. Why should mail-mi get the coins. If there are coins? Who knows whether or not there are coins.... maybe you get negative coins? All I know is putting stats above the game is stupid.
Putting stats above the game is stupid, but if we think the hammerer gets coins should we try to engineer someone we think is towny to hammer?
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Yuma, I know it's stupid, but I have done it before. Remember the debacle that was me not wanted to hammer arch and add a town hammer. Now I don't think mail-mi cares about the hammer stat. I think he wants coins for hammering whether he will get them or not I don't know. While I understand that is scummy, the newbie games have been horrible horrible reference for newbies learning what is as isn't scummy. Mail-mi is just as likely to ask for the hammer for self benefit as town as he is as scum. Liopoil however who keeps jumping around and I feel like is trying to delay the game is slightly more scunmy for jumping on the opportunity to push a case on someone who isn't Jimm, and delay the game.
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He is under the impression hammering, or hammering scum more likely, gets you coins. Fos liopoil for finding that somewhat scummy it's sorta obvious multiple people feel that way.
no mail-mi is the scummy one. Why should mail-mi get the coins. If there are coins? Who knows whether or not there are coins.... maybe you get negative coins? All I know is putting stats above the game is stupid.
Putting stats above the game is stupid, but if we think the hammerer gets coins should we try to engineer someone we think is towny to hammer?
I have no idea, but let me quote this from Robz
FAQ #4
You will earn $$$ for doing various things. You have no idea what earns you $$$, and you will never know. When I tell you how much money you have, it might be much more--or much less--than you expected.
meaning that I think the way to earn coins changes each night. So I think it is ridiculous and a complete waste of time to try and engineer something like this. Let's just play the game.
PS... if mail-mi wants to get coins by hammering... but also realizes there is a chance that he will be NKed... why does he want to get coins? Maybe because he knows he isn't going to be NKed and is scum? I don't know. He has played a very scummy game.
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If you guys want someone townier to have the possibility of those coins, fine with me.
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If mail-mi is still alive tommorow he'll likely be my top scumread. partially because scum didn't NK him, partially because he's just super scummy.
mcmc I really don't understand how I'm slowing the game down. I think I'm still the top poster and am trying to get a majority on somebody. I, like yuma, have started to get a feeling that Jimmmmm is going to flip town, and so would rather lynch someone else, like lekkit, or maybe ashersky. I'm staying on Jimmmmm for now because he's the one at L-1, and seems to be the only possible lynch today. I also want to lynch Jimmmmm because he claimed. With him dead, we know if we can trust what he said, and scum can't use the info they have on him. (if he's town). Still, I'd rather lynch scum than town (duh).
I don't think we should worry about how to get coins, it'll go nowhere.
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Vote Count 2.9
Jimm (6) -- Ozle, Jorbles, mcmcsalot, liopoil, mail-mi, sudgy {L-2}
sudgy (1) -- Insomniac
mail-mi (2) -- raerae, Eevee
ashersky (1) yuma
Not Voting (3) -- Archetype, Jimm, Lekkit
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. The game ends on April 29th at 7:00 PM. There are 29 days left.
Ashersky is still voting for ozzle by the way.
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Insom, raerae, arch, lekkit, eevee, ashersky (Jimm)
The part of that that keeps worrying me is you saying, I like Yuma have started to get a feeling that Jimm is going to flip town. So I ask, WHYYYYYY? He still hasn't reread, he still hasn't started contributing, as he's proving impossible to lynch which is a scum quality.
There are three scum left. 7 people are voting for Jimm, 6(7 Jimm)
If Jim is town either all three scum are on his wagon already
Ozzle, jorbles, mcmcsalot, mail-mi, sudgy, liopoil, Yuma.
Or Jim is town and scum is just not pushing this lynch through to stall the game out.
If Jim is scum, I'm going to make the assumption the remaining 2 scum is off wagon for purposes of getting him lynched. There are 4 town who don't think Jimm is scum.
Insom, raerae, arch, lekkit, eevee, ash
Either way this lynch is taking waaaaaay to long to go through.
If he's town there are 4 people who have been tricked into voting for him.
If he's scum there are 4 people who are being tricked into not voting for him.
I guess the reason I find him more likely to be scum is this. I think most people voting for Jimm have there own reasons, I know I found him to be scummy all on my own, so I find it hard to believe that 4 people have been tricked into voting for Jimm. I think the people not voting for Jimm don't have solid reasons and have been convinced not to vote for Jimm by other people.
I want insom, raerae, arch, lekkit, eevee, ash give there stance on jim
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Sorry last post wouldn't let me type more from my phone.
I will look back for the people I mentioned and what they have said about Jimm to see where they stand. If I find they have given concrete reasons for why they aren't voting for Jimm they don't have to repost but still why are they not participating and I think they should.
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I don't think Jimmmmm will flip scum, so I won't contribute to his lynch.
I think Jorbles, mcmc, Ozle (same case on him as on Yuma), and Yuma are better lynches. With those, even mislynches tell us more than Jimmmmm-easy-lynch.
Alright this is tough from mobile, I wanted to include two other quotes that had to do with ash talking about Jimm. This is the most concrete thing ash has said talking about the Jimm lynch. He has never given a reason he thinks Jimm will flip town. He has said I am scummy multiple times and quelled talk about Jimm once when we have Jimm a soft deadline to reread.
So ash lets go, why don't you think Jimm is scum and give me some reason that aren't Yuma has a bad case and that I am scummier. I want your reasons Jimm's town, because that is what you believe.
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Caught up. I don't think Jimmm is scum, he is frankly better at playing scum than this.
I agree with yuma in that inherently the people off yesterdays wagon are scummier. I got a townie feeling from Jimm's scrambling, but I dont think he is necessary scum for disagreeing if I was right.
Here is eevee, again give me some solid reasons. You are one of my guesses for town being convinced not to vote for Jimm. You think he is t scum because he is better than this, better than what? He is lurking and gettin away with it. If you are referencing killing xeiron that is wifom, it is a stupid argument for scum!jimm or town!jimm. You also say his scrambling is towny, do you mean his map claim? You yourself said he may have claimed as scum just to look towny. Also haven't we said, map claiming is bad for town, he didn't wait for people to tell him no because he wanted to get the town cred that came along with his "towny claim"
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Re: Jorbles, Not posting something you wanted to makes you a lurker, posting it makes you scum. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. I don't think it's scummy at all.
raerae, He's at l-6 and Jimm seems to be under a lot more pressure.
Also, will try to get some rereading done, since I will be going to a gaming convention tomorrow and I will be VLA until sunday.
Okay, said he was Vla, which is totally acceptable, should be back however.
When you get here please give a heads up on your estimated time of contribution, when we can expect you to be caught up ect. After that posting thoughts on Jimm before voting would be preferable I've been a part of far to many out of the blue hammers lately.
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Vote Count 2.10
Jimm (7) -- Ozle, Jorbles, mcmcsalot, mail-mi, sudgy, liopoil, yuma {L-1}
sudgy (1) -- Insomniac
mail-mi (2) -- raerae, Eevee
Ozle (1) -- ashersky
Not Voting (3) -- Archetype, Jimm, Lekkit
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. The game ends on April 29th at 7:00 PM. There are 28 days left.
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I went back to Jimmmmm, before Yuma.
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I went back to Jimmmmm, before Yuma.
So you did. I sometimes miss votes when they appear at the end of a sentence and end up all the way on the right hand side of the page.
I am editing the previous post count so that it's fixed.
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A stalled out vote at L-1 actually makes me more comfortable with a Jimmmm lynch. Surely a scum player would have hammered by now if Jimmmm was town. If one scum player had been lynched d1 I'd do everything I could to avoid losing a second team mate on d2, stalling on the vote as long as possible.
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I think I like the Jimmmmm lynch more than Insom because I do have high expectations for Jimmmmmm as town and he is not coming close to meeting them. But, as a few people have already pointed out, I'm a bit leery that we have been steered toward those two.
Jimmmmmm Notes:
1. In favor of map claim then backs off it. This was before everybody got all up in arms about it being a bad idea so I have no scumread here. (early D1)
2. Argues against a no lynch because it doesn't help find scum. This was basically the most content he's posted all game. (#397)
3. Doesn't address his wagon. Is this scummy? Is it just his play? I can't remember a jimmmmm wagon taking place before...
4. Goes back to talking about map claiming...I don't care for that but since his lynch was gaining speed at that time, it almost seems like he's asking permission?
I'm not buying it and I won't support this lynch. I think Jimmmmm is a good enough player that if he were scum, I'd expect his play to have done a 180 after Kooshie got lynched for lurking and not posting content. I'll judge him more when his reads come in but I'm not game for this one as it stands.
ugh, I don't care is that was stupid on mail-mi's part. Doesn't mean hes scum in any way. Yuma voting for him after saying nothing could make him look at on-wagoners...thats scummy. Raerae, what don't you get about lynching someone who has posted about zero content.
What about my post was unclear? I won't push this lynch through because I don't believe it's sound. I think we're getting over excited because we (finally!) caught lurky scum for the first time since...what? Buffy? and the lurking was a secondary scum trait in that game...and we're going to make a mistake if we lynch Jimmmmm. I really don't believe scum would be stupid enough to pull that twice.
That being said, he still does need to produce those promised reads.
mail-mi, are you still voting for me intentionally?
Yeah, but you are seeming more towny now that your back. Vote: Insomniac
Now that he's back?? What thread have you been reading?
Yuma, I really don't want to vote for jimmmmm because I really think he'd flip town. I am with you on mail-mi but want to read him again to solidify that. If I don't get that in tonight, I'll have time tomorrow morning.
Okay this is raerae, her stance on jimm is a bit inconsistent quite a bit.
She starts out saying it is a better lynch than insom, but goes on to say jimm is towny because she expects if he was scum to have done a 180 and started posting lots of content because kooshie was lynched for being lurky. My issue with this is that she is giving town jimm a pass for not contributing but saying scum jimm wouldn't still be a non contributor therefor jimm can't be scum. She does want him to give reads and is suprised when mail-mi finds jimm towny before jimm came in and posted reads. Next thing raerae posts is that she doesn't want to vote for jimm. Personally I still don't think jimm has given reads and contributed, but raerae you seem to just not want to vote for him, is your reason still only that you don't think scum jimm would lurk after his partner died from lurking?
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Guys, I just realized something. If I'm alive tomorrow, I'm not scum. Scum sees the perfect mis lunch in me and is not going to kill me. Just saying.
Where is everyone?! This day needs to end!
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Alright, so you won't be getting it today (it's my birthday just logged on quick to check on this game). But I still think Sudgy is very scummy and I will compile my case on the matter tomorrow. If Jimmmmm get's lynched today I'll have it prepared for Day 3. Please EVERYONE note the bold section, we can infer mafia will, so you may be able to derive information from that on Day 3 in the unlikely case I am the night kill.
okay here is insom, and one of his two posts of day 2.(I am going to address the fact that you have two posts in a separate post as it has nothing to do with the jimm lynch which I am dealing with now) Birthday absence is 100% understandable as with lekkit vla.
When you do come back, instead of making a case on sudgy, I would like you address the person who is currently at L-1. Do you think jimm is scum, why or why not, are you willing to vote for him?
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jorbles! we need to end the day. Are you willing to do it now?
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Mcmc, read yuma's argument with me for why Jimmmmm is townish to me.
He's not guaranteed town, by any means, just less likely to be scum than at least three other options today. I want to lynch someone who has a better chance of flipping scum.
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OK, Easter break over.
Dissapointed Insomniac is still getting a lurking free pass.
But obviously happy to still lynch Jimmmm as he is on my list, but looking at the list of people left, none of them seem to want to vote for Jimmmm at all. Unless they have hidden information I cant see why not to be honest?
Worried that scum may be stalling out this lynch so they dont lose 2 members in 2 days
Ashersky is my number 2 lynch possibility, but I really think we should get this day over with, we have bankable days here.
Guys, I just realized something. If I'm alive tomorrow, I'm not scum. Scum sees the perfect mis lunch in me and is not going to kill me. Just saying.
Erm.....your seen as scummy by some people, surviving the night makes you likely to be scum in thier eyes rather than not scum. Thats why they would leave you alive.
So therefore its highly likely you WILL survive the night, scum or town, and thus proves nothing.
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Guys, I just realized something. If I'm alive tomorrow, I'm not scum. Scum sees the perfect mis lunch in me and is not going to kill me. Just saying.
Where is everyone?! This day needs to end!
ugh, its called wifom!!!! Arguments like these are made null and void. I'll explain wifom if your not familiar with it and why it is like this.
Mail-mi is alive on day 3. He must be scum because scum would have killed him! But wait, scum would know that and leave him alive so we will mislynch him! But wait scum!mail-mi would have thought of that and used that argument to clear himself! But wait scum!mail-mi would know we would come to that conclusion and wouldn't have said it at all, its a never ending cycle of who thought of what first and therefor cannot be used as an argument toward or against you.
The fact that it was bad play can be used. That was bad play whether you are town or scum, usually we say bad play is scummy, I was making the argument that in your case bad play is towny(I don't think you are a bad player, just that you are a bit jumpy and would legitimately be afraid of getting lynched with such little suspicion on you. I think as scum you would be more calm and collected)
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mail-mi likely will survive the night. It will not mean much regarding his alignment, but if anything it will be a bit on the scummy side (because WIFOM aside, scum wants to kill PRs.)
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From Jimmms long post
" This room did contain a Watchtower, which let you see who else was in the same room, as well as a Treasure Map, "
Now this is strange, as I have seen another item that does EXACTLY the same thing with a DIFFERENT name.
Now, either Robz ran out of ideas, or this is a lie.
A) Now, its possible Robz did run out of ideas and did two cards do the exact same thing to fill up rooms
B) Or Scum Jimm has changed what the Watchtower does because he knows it helps teammates and doesnt want to give away what they had (I dont believe Town jimmm would lie about this, what would he gain if he thought he was being lynched)
Now, I'm leaning towards A) because it does fit the theme of the card slightly, however it doesnt fit exactly. However, thinking further, Watchtower is a defense card (So why would Scum want it?) And I cant see how the top decking would fit in anyways.
Just to be clear, I dont want anyone to own up to buying it unless they know it doesn't do what Jimm says it does.
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ashersky's first 18 posts include a "tell" on someone, but not a single post of his after that has a tell in it. Not neccessarily scummy or towny... just worth note. I just read ash and found him on the scummy side for his sudden vote on kooshie, and a post shortly after which seemed like last-minute-bussing to me:
So many people! I get them confused when I try to put into words what I think of them, but I'll try my best on who I can call to mind. Maybe do a few rereads, even.
Jimm: Contributing, giving opinions, no reads, really, but otherwise very towny. Actually, not many people have put in reads. So, Lekkit, why point at me?
Raerae: Not much of a read, kinda towny. Is Jimm's vote still on her? I can't remember the reason. At one point he voted her just because she said not to, if they were voting because of lurking.
Ashersky: Right now all I can think of is his tells. He's pretty much stopped doing that, but it might take a little before something more solid enters my mind.
Liopoil: ahhh, him. Don't like how he's tunneling and won't say for a second that I might possibly be town. How can he be so sure? Oh, yeah, if I get lynched and flip town, he's in a teensy bit of trouble. He seems surer than he should be, though.
Jorbles: town vibes, but a bit of sheeping might have been in there. Nothing serious, though.
Mail-mi: Sheeeeeeeeeeeepy.
Lekkit: also rather sheeping liopoil. When he said he like liopoil's case on me and defended it, he still didn't vote for me. He did soon after, but why not then?
I think you are first time scum this game, based on posts like this. These are harder to do as scum, and this doesn't read like a town list.
I'm good with a Kooshie lynch.
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Ok, thought this through, I seriously doubt Jimm would lie about that, far too easy for someone to have walked through that room and find out that he was lying.
So got to believe he is telling the truth. Darn, thought I was onto something there.
Damn you Robz!
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ozle, you're saying you have seen an item which lets you see everyone in the same room as you that isn't named watchtower?
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I don't think Jimmmmm will flip scum, so I won't contribute to his lynch.
I think Jorbles, mcmc, Ozle (same case on him as on Yuma), and Yuma are better lynches. With those, even mislynches tell us more than Jimmmmm-easy-lynch.
I don't buy it. Clearly this is not Jimmmm-easy-lynch. There are more interaction surrounding the jimm wagon and lynch than you claim.
Okay I read you case on jorbles, sorry I don't think it is good as he was on kooshiewagon and tons of people have been jumping votes on jimm, I don't think its that scummy.
You make no case on ozzle, but say same case as yuma so I'm just going to address the yuma case.
hmm, seems i lost track before I reread yuma gosh that frustrates me. I will do that in a second I'm sorry. Pre re-read my gut says yuma has been posting enough and contributing that I don't think he is a good lynch.
So, I guess I still want a better reason from you, do you refuse to lynch Jimmm? even with him at L-1, at least 4 town members think hes a good lynch. I don't think you will get a lynch on ozzle/yuma, just seeing how hard it is for us to do anything with the crazy lurkers/vla's we have going on.
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ozle, you're saying you have seen an item which lets you see everyone in the same room as you that isn't named watchtower?
Please ignore that, was a dead end. Thought I was onto something but wasn't
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I understand that, and don't find Jimmmmm scummy for that. I'm just very curious if you have seen such an item. You don't have to tell me if you don't think it is a good idea for town. Jimmmmm's wording wasn't terribly clear, so it is possible that you are reffering to different items.
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I don't think Jimmmmm will flip scum, so I won't contribute to his lynch.
I think Jorbles, mcmc, Ozle (same case on him as on Yuma), and Yuma are better lynches. With those, even mislynches tell us more than Jimmmmm-easy-lynch.
I don't buy it. Clearly this is not Jimmmm-easy-lynch. There are more interaction surrounding the jimm wagon and lynch than you claim.
Okay I read you case on jorbles, sorry I don't think it is good as he was on kooshiewagon and tons of people have been jumping votes on jimm, I don't think its that scummy.
You make no case on ozzle, but say same case as yuma so I'm just going to address the yuma case.
hmm, seems i lost track before I reread yuma gosh that frustrates me. I will do that in a second I'm sorry. Pre re-read my gut says yuma has been posting enough and contributing that I don't think he is a good lynch.
So, I guess I still want a better reason from you, do you refuse to lynch Jimmm? even with him at L-1, at least 4 town members think hes a good lynch. I don't think you will get a lynch on ozzle/yuma, just seeing how hard it is for us to do anything with the crazy lurkers/vla's we have going on.
I think mcmc is town now, btw. My scum read on him has evaporated as he's begun his townspeak. I think scum!mcmc doesn't argue like this, because he doesn't want the attention.
I agree that, since Jorbles was on wagon, we can leave him out of the conversation for D2. That leaves Ozle and yuma (along with Jimmmmm) off wagon. And yet no one will consider Ozle/yuma, both masterminds of f.ds, as scum? Does that not strike anyone as odd?
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My reason for not wanting to lynch Jimmm is that I dont think he would have played like this as scum. It's not a game of lynching the worst townie, it's game of finding mafia. It is wifom, but I dont think Jimm is the most likely player to flip scum today. The problem with Ozle and yuma (who we DEFINITELY should be scutinizing more) is that building cases against them is hard as they are good at refuting them. Makes them hard to lynch. Jimmm is easier to lynch. Ozle and yuma are more likely to be scum.
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I agree that, since Jorbles was on wagon, we can leave him out of the conversation for D2. That leaves Ozle and yuma (along with Jimmmmm) off wagon. And yet no one will consider Ozle/yuma, both masterminds of f.ds, as scum? Does that not strike anyone as odd?
First off, im a mastermind at scum? Where did that come from?! This is like my 3rd or 4th game of serious mafia!
And I have been considered, i had a few votes on me earlier, but I think people considered me and dint consider me particulrily scummy, thats why yours and eevees last vote push for me didnt work!
If Jimmmm turns up at Mafia then you are going to look soooooo scummy! Scum would have a hard time convincing themselves to bus a second member of thier team, because they know with 2 mafia down then it will be VERY hard for them to win
Thats why I feel more confident the longer it takes to lynch Jimmmm.....
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I agree that, since Jorbles was on wagon, we can leave him out of the conversation for D2. That leaves Ozle and yuma (along with Jimmmmm) off wagon. And yet no one will consider Ozle/yuma, both masterminds of f.ds, as scum? Does that not strike anyone as odd?
First off, im a mastermind at scum? Where did that come from?! This is like my 3rd or 4th game of serious mafia!
And I have been considered, i had a few votes on me earlier, but I think people considered me and dint consider me particulrily scummy, thats why yours and eevees last vote push for me didnt work!
If Jimmmm turns up at Mafia then you are going to look soooooo scummy! Scum would have a hard time convincing themselves to bus a second member of thier team, because they know with 2 mafia down then it will be VERY hard for them to win
Thats why I feel more confident the longer it takes to lynch Jimmmm.....
Way to twist my words, Mr. Ozle. I say "mastermind(s) of f.ds", not mastermind at scum. Reread, man.
Take out the masterminds clause and the sentence says "And yet no one will consider Ozle/yuma as scum." If you prefer, reword it to say "And yet no one will consider the f.ds masterminds Ozle/yuma as scum."
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I agree that, since Jorbles was on wagon, we can leave him out of the conversation for D2. That leaves Ozle and yuma (along with Jimmmmm) off wagon. And yet no one will consider Ozle/yuma, both masterminds of f.ds, as scum? Does that not strike anyone as odd?
First off, im a mastermind at scum? Where did that come from?! This is like my 3rd or 4th game of serious mafia!
And I have been considered, i had a few votes on me earlier, but I think people considered me and dint consider me particulrily scummy, thats why yours and eevees last vote push for me didnt work!
If Jimmmm turns up at Mafia then you are going to look soooooo scummy! Scum would have a hard time convincing themselves to bus a second member of thier team, because they know with 2 mafia down then it will be VERY hard for them to win
Thats why I feel more confident the longer it takes to lynch Jimmmm.....
Also, twisting someone's words to paint them badly is a scummy thing to do.
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I've considered them, as have most other people... they just aren't scummy!
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soft deadline... do we have one? seriously. We need one. This is getting stupid. And the players that aren't participating need to. we desperately need you to participate. Arch, Lekkit and Insomniac are all on VLA and it is killing us. It is understandable, but it is killing us.
Those of you not on Jimmmm. Here is the biggest questions I have.
1. Do you honestly think we can get another lynch today?
2. Do you honestly think that Jimmmm isn't that scummy? I'll get to this in a bit.
3. Do you honestly think that not lynching Jimmmm is in town's best interest at this point? How long is it going to take to get another lynch option going and get a consensus. You are going to have a terribly hard time convincing people off the Jimmmm wagon, not to mention the people that aren't participating...
The biggest defense that I have heard is thus:
Jimmmm wouldn't play scum so badly (this is mostly at you eevee). I have said this before and will say this again, but this is a horrible argument. It is horrible because it is totally dependent on the availability of Jimmmmm. Look, Jimmmm is super busy in RL. I get that. It doesn't make him scummy. But it also doesn't make him town. It is independent of his alignment. So if Jimmmm is scum, it is unfortunate for him that he has been so busy he hasn't been able to play a solid game like you would except. It is also unfortunate that if he is scum, his scum buddy left him in such a crappy spot. If I were Jimmmm at that point and after getting the criticism I would play on my business. I would try to prolong day as long as possible, I would delay my rereads and defenses. I would make it seem like I didn't care. Because if he is as busy as he says he is. He doesn't have time to put effort into this game that is necessary to get out of such an obvious lynch.
I don't think I have seen any other compelling arguments. Just gut reads which are worthless to me.
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we HAD one, but it's long gone. Jorbles has expressed potential willingness to hammer. He should do that now.
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Jorbles, as others have said, you need to hammer.
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What do you want me to do yuma? Hammer someone I dont think is scum?
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What do you want me to do yuma? Hammer someone I dont think is scum?
Not that I would if you did.
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What do you want me to do yuma? Hammer someone I dont think is scum?
Not that I would if you did.
I did once. Arch in MnM. We saw how that worked out...with a win for yuma.
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soft deadline... do we have one? seriously. We need one. This is getting stupid. And the players that aren't participating need to. we desperately need you to participate. Arch, Lekkit and Insomniac are all on VLA and it is killing us. It is understandable, but it is killing us.
Those of you not on Jimmmm. Here is the biggest questions I have.
1. Do you honestly think we can get another lynch today?
2. Do you honestly think that Jimmmm isn't that scummy? I'll get to this in a bit.
3. Do you honestly think that not lynching Jimmmm is in town's best interest at this point? How long is it going to take to get another lynch option going and get a consensus. You are going to have a terribly hard time convincing people off the Jimmmm wagon, not to mention the people that aren't participating...
The biggest defense that I have heard is thus:
Jimmmm wouldn't play scum so badly (this is mostly at you eevee). I have said this before and will say this again, but this is a horrible argument. It is horrible because it is totally dependent on the availability of Jimmmmm. Look, Jimmmm is super busy in RL. I get that. It doesn't make him scummy. But it also doesn't make him town. It is independent of his alignment. So if Jimmmm is scum, it is unfortunate for him that he has been so busy he hasn't been able to play a solid game like you would except. It is also unfortunate that if he is scum, his scum buddy left him in such a crappy spot. If I were Jimmmm at that point and after getting the criticism I would play on my business. I would try to prolong day as long as possible, I would delay my rereads and defenses. I would make it seem like I didn't care. Because if he is as busy as he says he is. He doesn't have time to put effort into this game that is necessary to get out of such an obvious lynch.
I don't think I have seen any other compelling arguments. Just gut reads which are worthless to me.
Yuma, the problem with this is it just sounds like "man, day is getting long, let's lynch the easiest." That just feels like we're being lazy.
You are absolutely right that the lurkers/VLAers are killing us here. If we're going to lynch someone solely to get the day ended, better to policy lynch LALL-style, I think.
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Okay this is raerae, her stance on jimm is a bit inconsistent quite a bit.
She starts out saying it is a better lynch than insom, but goes on to say jimm is towny because she expects if he was scum to have done a 180 and started posting lots of content because kooshie was lynched for being lurky. My issue with this is that she is giving town jimm a pass for not contributing but saying scum jimm wouldn't still be a non contributor therefor jimm can't be scum. She does want him to give reads and is suprised when mail-mi finds jimm towny before jimm came in and posted reads. Next thing raerae posts is that she doesn't want to vote for jimm. Personally I still don't think jimm has given reads and contributed, but raerae you seem to just not want to vote for him, is your reason still only that you don't think scum jimm would lurk after his partner died from lurking?
At first glance, yes, jimmmmmm was the better lynch. That was also without a read and I'm not going to throw a vote down without doing my homework. I read jimmmmmm and I don't buy it. Scum would not get caught twice for doing the same thing. That isn't logical. It's like Lekkit going after me (scum vs IC) in Buffy. It didn't work D1 so his scum friends sure as hell weren't going to try it D2. Yes, I know this is an extreme example but I still think it fits. I won't vote for somebody I don't think is scum and I'm sorry you disagree with my reasons but my vote is on mail-mi and that's where it will stay until somebody gives me a logical reason for scum to lurk themselves in half two days into the game.
Also, it was a holiday weekend, guys, cut some slack.
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For once I 100% agree with ashersky, couldnt have said it better myself.
..then again I always seem to disagree with town ashersky.. :)
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For once I 100% agree with ashersky, couldnt have said it better myself.
..then again I always seem to disagree with town ashersky.. :)
So maybe you are scum? :)
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I am back but going to bed now. I've finished catching up and will be posting more thoughts tomorrow. I think Jimmm is the best lynch today.
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So hammer him!!!! ...well at least he's back.
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What do you want me to do yuma? Hammer someone I dont think is scum?
No all I wanted you to do was answer the questions I posed and then if you thought it was the correct decision to hammer. That is all.
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soft deadline... do we have one? seriously. We need one. This is getting stupid. And the players that aren't participating need to. we desperately need you to participate. Arch, Lekkit and Insomniac are all on VLA and it is killing us. It is understandable, but it is killing us.
Those of you not on Jimmmm. Here is the biggest questions I have.
1. Do you honestly think we can get another lynch today?
2. Do you honestly think that Jimmmm isn't that scummy? I'll get to this in a bit.
3. Do you honestly think that not lynching Jimmmm is in town's best interest at this point? How long is it going to take to get another lynch option going and get a consensus. You are going to have a terribly hard time convincing people off the Jimmmm wagon, not to mention the people that aren't participating...
The biggest defense that I have heard is thus:
Jimmmm wouldn't play scum so badly (this is mostly at you eevee). I have said this before and will say this again, but this is a horrible argument. It is horrible because it is totally dependent on the availability of Jimmmmm. Look, Jimmmm is super busy in RL. I get that. It doesn't make him scummy. But it also doesn't make him town. It is independent of his alignment. So if Jimmmm is scum, it is unfortunate for him that he has been so busy he hasn't been able to play a solid game like you would except. It is also unfortunate that if he is scum, his scum buddy left him in such a crappy spot. If I were Jimmmm at that point and after getting the criticism I would play on my business. I would try to prolong day as long as possible, I would delay my rereads and defenses. I would make it seem like I didn't care. Because if he is as busy as he says he is. He doesn't have time to put effort into this game that is necessary to get out of such an obvious lynch.
I don't think I have seen any other compelling arguments. Just gut reads which are worthless to me.
Yuma, the problem with this is it just sounds like "man, day is getting long, let's lynch the easiest." That just feels like we're being lazy.
You are absolutely right that the lurkers/VLAers are killing us here. If we're going to lynch someone solely to get the day ended, better to policy lynch LALL-style, I think.
But you only address point three. And I still say it is a good point. Because where does it end? Maybe it is lazy... but in this sort of a game sometimes you just need a lynch. This is so unlike you! You are normally all for saving banked time and pushing a lynch through as town. What gives?
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What do you want me to do yuma? Hammer someone I dont think is scum?
No all I wanted you to do was answer the questions I posed and then if you thought it was the correct decision to hammer. That is all.
We disagree in that Jimm would see this as a valid scum strategy. I think he plays scum much like you do, appears very pro town and no one sees it coming.
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I guess my other frustration is that the people not voting for Jimmm aren't doing a very good job of presenting other options. Or rather they present other options, but those wagons just die off... maybe this is also a critique against people on the Jimmm wagon not being willing to look elsewhere, but there hasn't been a wagon with more than 2 votes beside Jimmm basically all day. If the off-Jimmmm players think Jimmmm isn't scum they need to come together and find a better option and present it to town and see if they can get more than 2 votes. If that doesn't happen--and it hasn't yet... nothing but jimmm getting lynched is going to happen.
I guess that is just it. The non-Jimmmm voters seem only interested in not getting Jimmmm lynched. They talk about other people being suspicious, but aren't willing to do the leg work to present solid cases on others to attract other voters. I have tried. I tried to present a case on mail-mi and ashersky, but no one joined.
If not Jimmmm (non-Jimmm voters) find another option, present it to us and we will see what happens. Do that or vote for Jimmmm.
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agreed, with non-Jimmmmm voters not presenting other options. I'm willing to lynch someone else, like ashersky, or maybe a lurker.
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soft deadline... do we have one? seriously. We need one. This is getting stupid. And the players that aren't participating need to. we desperately need you to participate. Arch, Lekkit and Insomniac are all on VLA and it is killing us. It is understandable, but it is killing us.
Those of you not on Jimmmm. Here is the biggest questions I have.
1. Do you honestly think we can get another lynch today?
2. Do you honestly think that Jimmmm isn't that scummy? I'll get to this in a bit.
3. Do you honestly think that not lynching Jimmmm is in town's best interest at this point? How long is it going to take to get another lynch option going and get a consensus. You are going to have a terribly hard time convincing people off the Jimmmm wagon, not to mention the people that aren't participating...
The biggest defense that I have heard is thus:
Jimmmm wouldn't play scum so badly (this is mostly at you eevee). I have said this before and will say this again, but this is a horrible argument. It is horrible because it is totally dependent on the availability of Jimmmmm. Look, Jimmmm is super busy in RL. I get that. It doesn't make him scummy. But it also doesn't make him town. It is independent of his alignment. So if Jimmmm is scum, it is unfortunate for him that he has been so busy he hasn't been able to play a solid game like you would except. It is also unfortunate that if he is scum, his scum buddy left him in such a crappy spot. If I were Jimmmm at that point and after getting the criticism I would play on my business. I would try to prolong day as long as possible, I would delay my rereads and defenses. I would make it seem like I didn't care. Because if he is as busy as he says he is. He doesn't have time to put effort into this game that is necessary to get out of such an obvious lynch.
I don't think I have seen any other compelling arguments. Just gut reads which are worthless to me.
Yuma, the problem with this is it just sounds like "man, day is getting long, let's lynch the easiest." That just feels like we're being lazy.
You are absolutely right that the lurkers/VLAers are killing us here. If we're going to lynch someone solely to get the day ended, better to policy lynch LALL-style, I think.
But you only address point three. And I still say it is a good point. Because where does it end? Maybe it is lazy... but in this sort of a game sometimes you just need a lynch. This is so unlike you! You are normally all for saving banked time and pushing a lynch through as town. What gives?
Fair enough. On the other points:
Point 1: Do I think we can get another lynch through? Honestly, I think someone will hammer Jimmmmm before that happens. I think with a full town playing, we could get a different lynch (heck, someone could get my lynch through, I'm sure), but with the current under-activity, it would be difficult. But really, I think you'll get your Jimmmmm mislynch through.
Point 2: I guess I just don't see that much scumminess there. I know you aren't a big gut/meta guy, and that's okay. If we're ever on a team together, I think we'll complement each others' strengths. But in response to that, I'd point this out: your experience playing with and modding over people has helped you develop your ability to read them, right? I think that's a fact for your reads on me, at least. (And you just did that in the post I quote, btw.) As I've gotten more experience on f.ds, my play style has changed (less whine, for example), and my reads on people have developed. So I get a townish read on Jimmmmm, based on meta/past. Maybe it's time for a recap on his Kooshie interactions, but they just don't stand out to me as that strong (not as strong as mcmc's, for example).
I have in the past pushed to lynch just to end the day. You are correct. But they've always been town, and we've not benefited from it. So I'm thinking maybe that isn't the best course of action.
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I guess my other frustration is that the people not voting for Jimmm aren't doing a very good job of presenting other options. Or rather they present other options, but those wagons just die off... maybe this is also a critique against people on the Jimmm wagon not being willing to look elsewhere, but there hasn't been a wagon with more than 2 votes beside Jimmm basically all day. If the off-Jimmmm players think Jimmmm isn't scum they need to come together and find a better option and present it to town and see if they can get more than 2 votes. If that doesn't happen--and it hasn't yet... nothing but jimmm getting lynched is going to happen.
I guess that is just it. The non-Jimmmm voters seem only interested in not getting Jimmmm lynched. They talk about other people being suspicious, but aren't willing to do the leg work to present solid cases on others to attract other voters. I have tried. I tried to present a case on mail-mi and ashersky, but no one joined.
If not Jimmmm (non-Jimmm voters) find another option, present it to us and we will see what happens. Do that or vote for Jimmmm.
That's a fair criticism, I guess. Although to be fair to me (and Eevee, at least), we don't usually do posts of cases that resemble yours. I'll try to get a re-read in and present a stronger case on Ozle.
agreed, with non-Jimmmmm voters not presenting other options. I'm willing to lynch someone else, like ashersky, or maybe a lurker.
I will not be building a case on me.
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I will not be building a case on me.
but that is my favorite kind of case... and remember! an easy way to get me to not vote for Jimmmm anymore is to self vote!
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Ummmm...lio, yuma, my mail-mi case doesn't count as presenting another lynch option? Why isn't it good enough? Did you have questions on it I didn't see? I'd be happy to answer them.
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Ummmm...lio, yuma, my mail-mi case doesn't count as presenting another lynch option? Why isn't it good enough? Did you have questions on it I didn't see? I'd be happy to answer them.
I think the fact that I can't remember it at all has something to do with it... Like I said, there have been cases presented, but none have been joined upon by people not voting for Jimmmm. There hasn't been any real movement as a group, no leg work to attract other voters to it (part of this is the real life constraints of a holiday weekend, I get that and don't criticize because of that). I was voting for mail-mi at one point, but no one joined in so I abandoned it.
I might be willing to vote mail-mi if I thought it was a lynch that would go through. But at this point it won't go through. There isn't enough support off the Jimmm wagon for it. If there isn't enough there to convince non-Jimmmm voters, how is there going to be enough to convince Jimmmm voters to leave the only viable wagon at this point.
Do you see what I mean?
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So moral of the story is that we're all too stubborn to do anything other than what we're doing?
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So moral of the story is that we're all too stubborn to do anything other than what we're doing?
Maybe? I think it more has to do with the train of thought of people on the Jimmm wagon in being, "hey! we likely found scum! Why would I join your wagon that doesn't seem as promising as this one and has less people and probably isn't going to result in a lynch."
That is how mafia is, especially in large groups where large numbers of people are needed for a lynch to go through. How I wish Axxle was here with his double vote... I promise I wouldn't find him scummy for it!
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Well, I don't know what to do. Wait for Lekkit? Wait for Arch? I'm going to point people back in this direction, even if you think it's crap let's at least discuss it rather than just making angry faces at each other for either being or not being on jimmmmm's wagon.
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mail-mi is very scummy, and #793 is awful. However, #793 makes it a bad idea to lynch him today. If he is town, we definatly don't want to lynch someone who has access to a PR, and is town. If he is scum, then he is super scummy tommorow because he won't be NKed, and can be considered for a lynch more then.
Lio, sorry, I didn't see this at first. What makes you think he has a PR?
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Okay, just finished a re-read of D1. Here are my thoughts:
--I had town reads early to mid D1 on yuma and Ozle. That's funny to me, given how I feel about them now.
--I had a scum reads on Jimmmmm and mcmc all day.
--I think liopoil is town. He started the Kooshie wagon and kept it going all day. That isn't a scum!liopoil move.
--Insom REALLY lurked his way through D1 (and now D2).
--Eevee has not been suspected much at all, even though he contributed very little on D1.
Here are some interesting quotes:
Honestly, I don't think that liopoil's scum. Many people have said, "Ooh, defensiveness. Ooh, massclaim. Ohh, ooh, ooh." On the defensiveness, I think that he's the kind of person that when questioned on things like that, would get a little defensive. he came up with this idea, and thought it might actually worked. People criticized it and questioned it in a way he probably didn't like. He got a teensy bit offended, and when people called him scummy, he felt the need to defend himself in the way that he did. That's what I think about his defensiveness.
On his massclaim idea, it ties into the defensiveness. At first it was an idea, he got a bit miffed, and then when people were toppling it and it was clear it wasn't going to work, he realized he might be lynched, and like any town player, didn't like that. He still wanted his idea to be considered, though, so he slimmed it down, in the process realizing that it really needed slimming down.
I think this has been quoted before, but it's Kooshie's response to liopoil. I think it helps solidify a town read on lio.
For a second I was like "oh cool, Eevee must be town!" But then I remembered:
of course I don't think people who agree with me must be town, that's ridiculous! I assumed people would know that...
How is that ridiculous, you said it!
And then you explained how your initial thinking was wrong by pointing out out Eevee likes to buddy.
If it was sarcasm, then why feel the need to justify it?
It just feels so staged....
Im still Waiting for the Man Insomniac and the other lurkers to come before we even decide to lynch anybody surely?
Here is Ozle attacking someone I think, in retrospect, is most probably town. So, attacking probtown, and if you read the context around the post, deflecting from a Kooshie wagon that may or may not pick up steam at that point to Eevee.
ins, do you then disagree with robz in that lurking is what I'd do as scum?
With Robz?
I think you'd lurk as scum or be active as scum, I don't think you have a set meta for how you play scum.
Robz thinks I wouldn't lurk as scum (I think he is right), ozle apparwntly thinks everyone knows I lurk as scum. Well, I don't think I'll prove my towniness with this particular self-meta argument either way.
I think what Lekkit is saying about kooshie makes sense too.
Lekkit is just sheeping Lipoli though. And you are sheeping Lekkit.
The case is not strong.
One of the arguments is that kooshie has been busy defending, well thats a plus point in my book! When people are accused before they have hardly said anything they SHOULD post a defense to those things if they are town to help shift the attention on someone who might not be town!
Lekkit says that Kooshie has not posted any thing of substance, well the same applies to you Lekkit, I dont remember anything of substance you have said this game apart from agree with Lipoli.
You may have said something, but none of it has stuck in my mind.
I* think Lipoli is more wrong than scummy, the only thing that lipoli has done that is scummy is get unnecessarily worried about the Insomniac lynch, and that only becomes scummy if Insomniac is scummy.[
Robz thinks I wouldn't lurk as scum (I think he is right), ozle apparwntly thinks everyone knows I lurk as scum. Well, I don't think I'll prove my towniness with this particular self-meta argument either way.
ok, this has even more convinced me that Eevee is dodgy. You know you have lurked as scum, you actively toned down your activity as scum in my last game. I know you dont actively post as much as scum, and more importantly you know that I know that,
Good Enough for me to keep my vote on Eevee to be honest! Its not a massive thing, but its better than nothing at the moment.
Its day 1, im not adverse to lynching anyone to be honest, but I REALLY dislike people claiming they have good or strong cases based on such flimsy flimsy stuff.
Actually I take that back, I dont want to lynch Sudgy because he knows where a gold key is, and if he can buy that somehow then we will know he is town AND have cheaper access to Gold Rooms. Of course he might be scum, but its a null read on that for him, so the fact he may get us good stuff later makes him less of a good lynch candidate than anyone else.
Another Ozle post on Kooshie, defending Kooshie by calling the case "not strong" and trying to deflect to Eevee again.
just coming in to start on my reread and we reached a lynch...
however, before this gets locked... if I die tonight my advice is to not just jump into an immediate xeirion lynch tomorrow. hammering like that wasn't pro-town, but it doesn't automatically make him scum either. I could easily see a newbie scum doing it. Goodness, I have derp-hammered as town before.
I do think we need to hear from him before the thread is locked... and lio. DON'T TALK ABOUT THAT STUFF EVER! I completely agree with Ozle. There are always going to be potential ramifications to the things you say about claiming, setup info, etc that you can't think about. It is just better to not say anything unless you are in the process of outing scum.
I noted this when he posted it, but I do think this is a scum!yuma type of post. Smart to use the "if I get killed tonight..." thing when you are scum.
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mail-mi is very scummy, and #793 is awful. However, #793 makes it a bad idea to lynch him today. If he is town, we definatly don't want to lynch someone who has access to a PR, and is town. If he is scum, then he is super scummy tommorow because he won't be NKed, and can be considered for a lynch more then.
Lio, sorry, I didn't see this at first. What makes you think he has a PR?
Did you miss this? This is why we're very hesitant to lynch mail-mi today...
Don't lynch me because I have access to something that could really help town.
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I wonder if Vote: Ozle would pick on. Only reason it hasn't is because he has been posting smart stuff that's just as easy to post as scum (theory posts). His actual in-game contributions (deflecting from Kooshie to me and not ending up in the wagon) strike to me as scummy.
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- I almost posted this in the tabula rasa thread...
mail-mi (1) -- mcmcsalot
liopoil (1) -- yuma
raerae (1) -- Jimm
Kooshie (9) -- liopoil, Eevee, Jorbles, sudgy, Lekkit, mail-mi, ashersky, raerae, xeiron
sudgy (1) -- Insomniac
Eevee (1) -- Ozle
Not Voting (2) -- sparky5856, Kooshie
so the to take a very close look at list includes: mcmc, Jimmmm, Insomniac, Ozle and sparky and yuma (if you aren't me). Now I remember and we will want to verify this... but I remember both Ozle and sparky being very willing to vote kooshie and only not doing so because wanting to give town a chance to talk more.
But the point remains that they didn't vote before either (by that before Kooshie was at L-1 or L-2, etc).
I would suggest everyone that is inclined to do a reread of these players specifically and see what can be found.
After that I think it is best to look at the late wagon joiners (raerae, ash and mail-mi)
This was yuma's first post of the day talking about who we should look at. I will point out that he knew Ozle was off-wagon at that point, even though he "forgot" the rest of the day until I pointed it out.
Also worth noting that mega-D1-lurker Insom is off-wagon. Sparky didn't contribute much either. Really, a lot of good choices off wagon.
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mail-mi is very scummy, and #793 is awful. However, #793 makes it a bad idea to lynch him today. If he is town, we definatly don't want to lynch someone who has access to a PR, and is town. If he is scum, then he is super scummy tommorow because he won't be NKed, and can be considered for a lynch more then.
Lio, sorry, I didn't see this at first. What makes you think he has a PR?
Did you miss this? This is why we're very hesitant to lynch mail-mi today...
Don't lynch me because I have access to something that could really help town.
But why jump straight to PR is my question. There are obviously other things running around these woods or are we counting those things (like the Watchtower jimmmmmm mentioned) as PRs? PR is just stuck in my head as "cop" and "jailkeeper" not "can see stuff in rooms."
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Continuing case on Ozle:
This came AFTER he fished for spawning points from us ("anyone from a hallway")...
PPE: Also, I think I saw someone commenting earlier that if they went down to 0 money that would help prove thier town status. No it doesnt unfortunately.
...How do you know this?
....how do you know this isnt the case?
Have you seen all the bank?
Seriously, are people STILL asking these sorts of fishing questions for absolutely no gain??!
I'll repeat it again, One Last Time.......unless you have a picture of everything that's in the bank you CANNOT say for sure that something (For example there is only one way to lose money and thats the scum Pillage ability) is the case. You simply have no idea whats in the bank and what they do!
Say for example there is an item that lets you take money off a player. That person thinks they have been pillages, claims. And then another town player also claims they have been pillaged. Following the absolute stated above, we would probably lynch one, they woudl turn out town. Then lynch the other one, which would also turn out town. Boom, Scum probably won now. Well done
This isn't an edge case or a weird scenario, this is a PERFECTLY valid situation, and why you should not speculate or fish about items, map locations UNLESS YOU HAVE A REAL GOOD CASE OF CATCHING SCUM OR SAVING TOWN.
By asking questions like you did, you have made me defend myself or look scummy, which means I have possibly let out information to scum. Well done.
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So, I reread and added on to my overly meta case. No responses...
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So, I reread and added on to my overly meta case. No responses...
If it's any consolation, no one is online.
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Okay, thank you for that ash, I don't know how I manage to not read ozzle or yuma, I think I just did jimm/insom first and was so upset I got stuck.
So the ozzle case does have merit, that deflection from kooshie is very scummy especially with how he changed his mind and wanted hammer but not till the very last minute. I didn't think kooshie was scum and felt the case was weak but as I was busy with exams during that time, I hadn't really read the case to argue it, and therefor didn't have a chance to find the case more credible than I thought. At no point did I change my mind because at no point did I do any rereading of that particular case and person. I don't feel like ozzle did either but he did change his opinion. So while I do like this case, I still think the case on jimm is better.
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Pretty sure I posted my explanation for Kooshie intent to hammer.
It was a fairly weak case, but it did not look like we were able to build a case on anyone else, therefore it was the best case going and we were already using up bankable deadlines in DAY ONE
Someone needed to hammer or we would have spent aaaages day 1 faffing about not doing anything productive. It was Day 1, there was a case on someone, it was the only case we had and the only likely lynch so I stated intent to vote, it would have been the hammer so i waited for anything Kooshie was going to give us before hammering, which was the correct thing to do in the circumstance.
Did anyone have any real proper good to honest scum reads day 1? I doubt that, so I felt it was in towns best interest to get that lynch done.
Something I believe Ashersky wholehearted to agree with in time.
And Ashersky, do you really think I would be randomly fishing in the same timeframe that I posted people shouldn't be randomly fishing?
Do you really think I am that stupid?
Re-read it again, and the posts before and after, especially the bits in big bold letters.
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I just lost an entire page of analysis and summary do to a slip of my hand on the keyboard apologies if this now comes out short.
1) Arch/Lekkit/Insom need to come in and comment on Jimm
1A) Arch/Lekkit, I know there is alot to reread but I suggest prioritizing a jimm reread and lettingus know what you think. I understand you don't want to lynch before a full reread but we are wasting time somewhat and you can finish a reread during night.
1B) Insom, if your town please start contributing more, mafia doesn't have to be anyone first priority but you have 19 posts in 1050, and when you have posted you have yelled at people being lazy and not willing to go back and read your posts. If your scum, keep it up I'll lynch you eventually!
2) Summary of confirmed non Jimm voters. If Jimm flips scum I really think his buddies are trying to save him and therefor not voting for him, depending on how the above three act, there may be scum in the below three.
2A) Ash, reasons for no jimm vote are suspect, says there are better cases and makes me feel like he is trying to push people in other directions without being on record defending his buddy. Could also be because defending jimm isn't productive and scum hunting others is, towny due the the case hes made on ozzle.
2B) Raerae, reasons are also suspect, says jimm wouldn't play scum this way but I find it hard to believe that is a strong enough reason. She may be artificially inflating this reasoning to avoid voting her scum buddy. Note she also has discussed jimm quite a bit more than the others.
2C) Eevee, reason are similar to raerae along with finding jimms scrambling towny. I want to say eevee is town but his reason isn't all that much better.
3) Things to discuss today/tomorow depending on decision to lynch jimm or not.
3A) Depending on if insom begins to contribute or not, his posts need to be reread to find any motives town!insom or scum!insom have for playing the way he is. Look for interactions with kooshie and any reads he has given on other players.
3B) Ash's case on ozzle has merit. He was off K-wagon and deflected to someone I feel is towny with no real reason for coming around to saying he would vote for kooshie. Need to look at how he has acted about the jimm wagon. Ash has made some connections to ozzle and yuma, this needs to be looked at post yuma reread to see if anything can be made from it.
3C) This is more for me, but I need to complete a yuma reread and decide how I feel about him, then use that to judge a few other people.
4) More people to look at that people have said are likely town that I'm not sure deserve this pass.
4A) Ash has said liopoil is very likely town, not sure I agree, his play D2 has read very scummy to me but I will look again.
4B) Mail-mi is still being discussed about, I have said I think he is town due to "bad play" and don't think there is much of a case but I will find my D1 opinions and any early D2 things I found.
4C) Sudgy, I think I was suspicious of him D1 and now found him very towny D2, I think this has to do with how he acted toward kooshie but need to double check.
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Ozzle, I don't feel you are a strong lynch candidate for today simply from reading ash's case. I still find your motives for voting for kooshie suspect. It was day 1 and yes it was a case, but as you saw more people were willing to vote for kooshie. I will look back to see if you said anything about it prior to stating intent to hammer. I think you may have wanted to jump on wagon at the end rather than wanting to end the day, the later being much scummier. To address something you have said, you don't seem to be pushing all that hard for any lynch at all today(again I will fact check) if you were so concerned with us taking to long to get a lynch D1 why have you not been here posting and calling for reads/opinions of non jimm voters.
Much of the reason I don't find you a good lynch candidate for today is I don't think your behavior D2 has been scummy, I doubt you were fishing.
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If Asherskys entire case on me is that I switched my vote to Kooshie then I am entirely comfortable with my rebuttal. Thats a pretty increbibly weak case but lets go through it point by point.
"Here is Ozle attacking someone I think, in retrospect, is most probably town. So, attacking probtown, and if you read the context around the post, deflecting from a Kooshie wagon that may or may not pick up steam at that point to Eevee."
IN RETROSPECT is probably town, yeah, its easy to say liopoil is town now, but it didnt look that way yesterday, thats why Ashersky has used the word Retrospectively here.
I still think Eevee was a better lynch Day 1, but couldnt get any support.
Thats not defelcting, thats trying to build a wagon on someone, someone people should have been doing day 1 instead of just sheeping.
"Another Ozle post on Kooshie, defending Kooshie by calling the case "not strong" and trying to deflect to Eevee again."
Are you trying to say the case on Kooshie was STRONG? Because it wasn't. Was it? I cannot remember you giving any STRONG reasons for your vote on Kooshie. It was a case, it was the best case going, but it still wasnt a strong case. It was just a good meta read by liopoil.
And yes, at this point in the day I didn't feel we were yet locked into the Kooshie lynch and i still think Eevee was the best lynch.
Onto the next point.......oh wait, that was it. Yay.
And lets include in this great quote from Ashersky after I stated my intent to hammer......
I'm good with Ozle's reasons.
He is good with my reasons for my change of vote to Kooshie.
Thats quite an important quote to consider
Hopefully I have put your mind at rest now Ashersky?
is there anything else you would like me to address?
I have to assume that either you or Eevee is scum here trying to stop the lynch of a buddy, and obviously I want it to be Eevee because that means I was right Day 1
Also didnt Jimmmm himself propose a soft deadline of what seems like a week ago?
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Yeah, we're just kind of flailing at the moment. I'm really struggling to follow this game, and for that I'm sorry to all the other Townies, you deserve better. But it doesn't really look like there are other decent options on the table at the moment. SO. Tomorrow morning my time (It's now 1am) I'll have a look at things and see if there is some more positive direction we can go in. Tomorrow afternoon if I haven't been able to come up with something, I will self-hammer, and get us into night. There's no point wasting another week on this and then lynching me. Again, I'm sorry.
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Ok it's a bit later than intended but I got busy and Archetype said he needed till Tuesday anyways. So here we go the case on sudgy forgive the lack of linked quotes I did this from the print screen.
I'm going to Vote: ashersky because of the reasons people have stated. This is 50% RVS though.
This was after RVS, he sheeps but he calls it RVS.
Unvote.
The 50% of RVS was actually wanting to see ashersky's reaction. His reaction seemed towny enough to me.
So here was why he called it RVS, he wanted to see ashersky's reaction, but a better way to get a REAL reaction is to actually vote for ash without telling him you're vote has little meaning.
Pat needs to come here. Vote: patpatppat
One of many times he votes for a lurker, which as I know from playing scum is an easy vote to lay down as scum
The next quote is where he seems to get really scummy and this isn't just my thoughts many people had a similar thought regarding this post of sudgy's
Vote: Insomniac
Where he literally jumps onto my wagon with ZERO explanation for why he is doing so. I won't quote it but in his next post after getting ANY backlash for this post at all he immediately back pedals and explains why he voted for me. (because I was lurking remember how I said before thats an easy vote to throw down on someone) When a little bit more pressure comes he explains himself AGAIN AND unvotes.
Quote from: Eevee on March 19, 2013, 11:15:44 pm
Something about wanting to please as many people as possible just rubs me the wrong way. Like you're afraid of making waves.
Coming from you that's kind of funny...
Here he doesn't do anything to answer what Eevee directed at him merely redirects.
I'm a little bit more suspicious of Jimmmmm than Insomniac at the moment, but that might be because I've played with Jimmmmm before.
Your defense makes me even more suspicious... Vote: Insomniac
These were subsequent sudgy posts, he never voted for Jimm and claimed he was suspicious of me for lurking so how can me showing up and posting make him more suspicious of lurking?
Quote from: Insomniac on March 22, 2013, 01:48:25 pm
Quote from: sudgy on March 22, 2013, 01:44:21 pm
Your defense makes me even more suspicious... Vote: Insomniac
Cool beans. I still think you're scum but I will have to look at the hard information a bit more before I actually decide on anything
?? When did you think I was scum? I never saw you saying something like that before.
In one of my very few posts on day 1 I said this, how can you already have forgotten that, especially since I voted for you over it, this is trying to make me look scummy and a classic scum overreaction.
Here is a BIG scum slips if your into that thing
Looking at you quote, I see Kooshie (a townie) gave Jimmmmm a townread. When I don't think many people could give him a townread. This is enough to push me over to Vote: Jimmmmm. This is L-1, nobody else vote until he's said some things.
Kooshie was scum not town, did you forget that and remember that Kooshie was on the same team as you?
A lot of his posts have been sheeping other people and small posts, some of them don't have ANY content (there was a post that consisted of ?????????) and he has been voting for lurkers in a good portion of them too, that smells like artificial post inflating (however I read nothing into this as the town here has been quick to vote for anyone lurking at all so if I actually thought it would get people to unvote I might inflate my post count too whether I was town or scum)
And as soon as I announced I would be making this case he immediately posted saying he was going to prepare a defense, like he already knew what this case was going to be yet another classic scum overreaction.
I am already voting for him but I will do so again now Vote: Sudgy
I have post incoming (I'm making it after this one) where I look at Kooshie/Sudgy interactions.
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The first quote is intentionally empty it was an editing thing I made it so that I could wrap all the things I was quoting sudgy as saying and I forgot to trim it before I posted it.
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Kooshie Sudgy interactions.
From Sudgy there is two times that he mentions Kooshie after RVS, one actually neutral to me, the other looks scummy. (Neutral->Day 1, Scummy->Day 2)
This is turning into MXXI... I'm starting to think either liopoil or kooshie is scum... Right after liopoil makes a big case on kooshie...
This is before there is TOO much heat on kooshie and initially seems townie, but he could just be placing himself on the psuedo wagon in case kooshie did get lynched, I probably lean a bit of a townie read from this post, although I'm still fairly confident that sudgy is scum. After this he becomes the 4th vote on the wagon however two of the votes for kooshie came AFTER he voiced his pseudo support (there was only one vote liopoli at the time of this post).
Looking at you quote, I see Kooshie (a townie) gave Jimmmmm a townread. When I don't think many people could give him a townread. This is enough to push me over to Vote: Jimmmmm. This is L-1, nobody else vote until he's said some things.
This is the one on day 2 where he gives Kooshie town status.
I was surprised to notice that Kooshie DIDN'T MENTION SUDGY AT ALL. However she didn't mention most players, here is a list of players she does mention.
Liopoli
Ashersky
Patpatpat
Jimmmmm
Yuma
Raerae
Jorbles
Mail-mi
Lekkit
many of them just in passing.
I suspect there is at least 3 scum in a game this size so I suspect one of them would have been mentioned and the other not mentioned but this is more of a hunch then anything really concrete.
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there is exactly four scum, three left. Robz said so at the beginning of the game.
yeah, sudgy has been sheeping a lot, but I did that in DS9 too... sheeping is generally slightly scummy, but I don't think it is enough by itself. However, you mention other things.
preparing a defense to a not-yet-made case is sillly... but also scummy, because scum knows more about what they've been saying, and what they did that might be scummy.
his posts are certainly lower content than most... but if we're talking LALL, we're talking lekkit...
His insom vote is probably the scummiest. Everyone who voted insom is suspicious. It seems to me like the easy mislynch. The fact that he was chosen over lekkit also makes me suspicious of lekkit even more. Plus, insom's latest posts, and his reaction to his wagon read town to me.
So, I could vote for a few different people. At this late point in the day, I would be willing to vote:
lekkit, ashersky, Jimmmmm, sudgy, mail-mi, or no lynch. Also maybe Ozle, I haven't fully considered the case on him yet.
^^those are in order of preference by the way
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Most of the times when I voted for a lurker, I was trying to get them to post. When I mentioned Kooshie giving jimmmmm a townread, I was saying, "Kooshie is scum. She gave Jimmmmm a townread, when Jimmmmm wasn't that towny. Jimmmmm might be scum because scum gave him a townread when he wasn't that towny." All the rest of what you say is what I'm like as town.
Another thing to point out, in MXXI I was constantly suspected until I was mislynched at the end of the game. Most people generally think I'm scummy. Go ahead and lynch me (not now, we need to end this day), but you'll just be wasting a valuable mislynch.
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Also, I haven't been able to say much because I've been fairly busy recently.
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Okay, insom thank you great post. I do agree sudgy is scummy and I believe I made a case on him earlier but there was a reason I dropped it, I will go back and check. In the mean time please let me know what you think of Jimm.
In case it matters I almost certainly won't be pursuing an insom lynch today. This is the type of thin someone comes in and post when they are town as sorry about being gone. They do not constantly apologize and still never post anything helpful.
Insom one more thing just a list of your reads town - scum would be nice.
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jorbles! we need to end the day. Are you willing to do it now?
I assume someone already pointed this out, but you've already got my vote.
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oh wow, did not notice that :P
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I'm going to read some of the beefier posts in a bit, but right now I've got to get to work for the next hour or so.
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I liked mcmc's contributions overnight.
Ozle, the issue isn't switching to Kooshie. It's the deflecting before switching when she's at L-1. That's a classic scum tell, when you see your teammate is the imminent lynch and switch to gain towncred.
Also, in retrospect, given Kooshie WAS scum, it was an extremely good case. It was 100% correct.
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I could switch to sudgy, if that got going. Insom's case on him is better than a Jimmmmm lynch.
If you all think Jimmmmm is scum willing to self lynch for town, call his bluff. No way scum waits this long to self hammer if there's reason for it.
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Okay, insom thank you great post. I do agree sudgy is scummy and I believe I made a case on him earlier but there was a reason I dropped it, I will go back and check. In the mean time please let me know what you think of Jimm.
In case it matters I almost certainly won't be pursuing an insom lynch today. This is the type of thin someone comes in and post when they are town as sorry about being gone. They do not constantly apologize and still never post anything helpful.
Insom one more thing just a list of your reads town - scum would be nice.
I lean town on Jimmm. He doesn't have much content despite his larger post count than me but I lean town because he map claimed and stated he would self hammer (though he didn't)
Aside from Sudgy as scum and Yuma as town I don't have a strong read on many people right now and as such most of you are "slightly scummy"
Yuma is town because there is no way scum yuma would have on numerous occasions stood against my lynch when it would have been so easy to just let it happen.
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I liked mcmc's contributions overnight.
Ozle, the issue isn't switching to Kooshie. It's the deflecting before switching when she's at L-1. That's a classic scum tell, when you see your teammate is the imminent lynch and switch to gain towncred.
Also, in retrospect, given Kooshie WAS scum, it was an extremely good case. It was 100% correct.
Again, i dispute the word deflecting.
I call it 'giving reads'
Would you prefer people only talked about the current lynch all the time?
And no, it wasnt an extremely GOOD case, it was a correct case, not a good one. I bet you ant even explain to me what the case was without looking back!
You keep insiting it was a strong case and a good case when it clearly wasn't and the only person who actually ever gave an actual case was liopoil
I could pick one person at random, say they are scum because my nan told me so. If they turn out to be scum, does that make it a good read? Of course not. Just beause it was right does not make it good or strong.
You keep saying deflecting, again i say i was giving reads.
Why would you want to limit my views on other people?
Is it because one of those other people is your scumbuddies? Because im struggling to see a reason why you would not want to hear my reads through the day?
Ozle, the issue isn't switching to Kooshie. It's the deflecting before switching when she's at L-1. That's a classic scum tell, when you see your teammate is the imminent lynch and switch to gain towncred.
So wait, the switching is the scum tell, but my switching isnt the issue?
Make your mind up!
Is anybody else reading this and thinks it sounds like Ashersky is clutching at straws?
Seriosuly, no wonder you always get mislynched if this is you 'town' play.
Has anyone else seen Ashersky play like this in a game? Was he scum there?
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Yuma's still here, right?
vote: ashersky
That should get Jimmmmm back to L-2.
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Yuma's still here, right?
vote: ashersky
That should get Jimmmmm back to L-2.
Could you explain what your town read is on jimmmm for me?
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don't fall for it Yuma, it's a trap! he's manipulating you!
actually, I would prefer to lynch ashersky over Jimmmmmm...
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Yuma's still here, right?
vote: ashersky
That should get Jimmmmm back to L-2.
And to be honest, i'd be happy to have an Ashersky lynch going if people think it will actually end up lynching you, i just dont want to waste another week and then end up back here again.
Would people be willing to re-read ashersky to give a town/scum read?
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Also ashersky, i noticed you didnt answer my questions raised after i rebutted yours.
Just answered with a self vote
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scumread on ashersky, would vote if I thought the lynch could happen. though, it'd be a lot easier to lynch him if he keeps his vote on himself...
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Would you prefer people only talked about the current lynch all the time?
I could pick one person at random, say they are scum because my nan told me so. If they turn out to be scum, does that make it a good read? Of course not. Just beause it was right does not make it good or strong.
Why would you want to limit my views on other people?
Is it because one of those other people is your scumbuddies?
Because im struggling to see a reason why you would not want to hear my reads through the day?
So wait, the switching is the scum tell, but my switching isnt the issue?
Is anybody else reading this and thinks it sounds like Ashersky is clutching at straws?
Has anyone else seen Ashersky play like this in a game? Was he scum there?
These questions?
1) I would prefer that you discuss the issues at hand, not try to change the subject. For example: I kept saying the Jimmmmm lynch was a bad one. I was asked to give alternates. THEN I started a case on you. I did not try to deflect from Jimmmmm to someone else preemptively.
2) If your nan knows who scum is, you should share it with us. If she is correct, she has amazing reads.
3) I don't want to limit your views on other people. This is an Aunt Sally to which one cannot respond.
4) I have no scumbuddies.
5) I'm glad to hear your reads throughout any day. They help. But they don't help when it's "man, your case is not strong, let's all lynch Eevee instead!"
6) Switching is a scum tell. My issue with you was the deflecting. So you committed a scum tell, which many others (mcmc, for example) have noted as suspect. I think you are scum because you were trying to save Kooshie via deflection.
7. I don't know what anybody else thinks about my case, except for those who have responded, such as mcmc and Eevee.
8. I've rarely been scum, and when I am, I'm terrible at it. But again, I can't really respond for other people.
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These questions?
1) I would prefer that you discuss the issues at hand, not try to change the subject. For example: I kept saying the Jimmmmm lynch was a bad one. I was asked to give alternates. THEN I started a case on you. I did not try to deflect from Jimmmmm to someone else preemptively.]
I kept saying the Kooshie lynch was a bad one, I gave other reads, which you seem to want to ignore.
Your ENTIRE CASE on me is based on this supposed deflection, which I have explained is giving reads, which is what i feel town should do, not just tunnel one person.
There are other posts about eevee that you seem content to ignore and just paraphrase others.
Im not the Jimmm lynch, you seem to express an interest in lynching me. Thats not deflecting, because you were ASKED to do it? What happens if no one asks you to do something? Do you just sit on your hands?
I gave other reads, and in the end was convinced by the group to vote for the scum. Yet when I do it its deflecting?
Please, you can do better than that surely?
I think you have trapped yourself because you admitted my reasons for switching to Kooshie were good, you have said so twice now, but you keep bringing it up because you hope someone else will push that for you.
Ill repeat this because its important DAY ONE! Nobody has a solid case on Day 1, NOBODY, EVER. Sometimes we get super lucky and hit scum based on a small tell. But its NEVER because of a Rock solid case.
So what you seem to be expecting me to do is ignore the one case we did have to try and build one that wasnt taking off, thus wasting towns time further?
Right, note taken for future reference.
(The note I have taken is Day 1 is still the same, but Ashersky doesn't seem to realise this)
2) If your nan knows who scum is, you should share it with us. If she is correct, she has amazing reads.
I assume your joking here because you realise what a stupid statement it is. As explained, I picked the person at random. I am possibly going to win the March Madness competition here on FDS, does that mean I am an expert at picking teams for whatever it is?
No of course it doesnt, I dont even know what sport it is!!
Sometimes we have a small thing that turns out to be right.
3) I don't want to limit your views on other people. This is an Aunt Sally to which one cannot respond.
4) I have no scumbuddies.
No its not, you clearly have issue with me giving reads on people, and have deliberately split this into two questions to differentiate the meaning. You only seemed to want me to talk about the Kooshie lynch and not give reads on other people. Can you give me a good reason why
5) I'm glad to hear your reads throughout any day. They help. But they don't help when it's "man, your case is not strong, let's all lynch Eevee instead!"
Again, I gave reads on many people, including Eevee. I was dairly active during Day 1, where were you, did you miss it? Ahh yeah right, I remember you made a lot of non-posts until people called you out on it and then dissapeared for a bit before coming back. It was probably then...
6) Switching is a scum tell. My issue with you was the deflecting. So you committed a scum tell, which many others (mcmc, for example) have noted as suspect. I think you are scum because you were trying to save Kooshie via deflection.
7. I don't know what anybody else thinks about my case, except for those who have responded, such as mcmc and Eevee.
This was directed to other people
8. I've rarely been scum, and when I am, I'm terrible at it. But again, I can't really respond for other people.
Again, I dont care what your thoughts are on how you play as scum, what would be the point of that.
I asked for OTHER peoples views on you as town/scum play. Because I especially think it could be interesting later.
Its a poor case against me, you know it, I know it. Thats why it does not give any traction and it reeks of desperation!
So if you are town you are better off putting your energies to something useful! because I'm town and if I die at some point in future everyone is going to be looking right at you and if you are town you are going to be the rest of us an extreme disservice!
If you are scum, keep digging yourself into that hole.
Also, take that stupid self vote off yourself. We know you don't mean it.
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Yuma's still here, right?
vote: ashersky
That should get Jimmmmm back to L-2.
Could you explain what your town read is on jimmmm for me?
You also missed this one?
Why are you so opposed to Jimmm lynch?
What has he done exactly that has seemed townie to you?
Or do you only want to tunnel me now (and to a lesser extent Yuma, but I could see why you put your vote on me out of the two, its because Yuma is scary!)
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Yuma's still here, right?
vote: ashersky
That should get Jimmmmm back to L-2.
Could you explain what your town read is on jimmmm for me?
You also missed this one?
Why are you so opposed to Jimmm lynch?
What has he done exactly that has seemed townie to you?
Or do you only want to tunnel me now (and to a lesser extent Yuma, but I could see why you put your vote on me out of the two, its because Yuma is scary!)
Sorry, missed that one. I've explained this ad naseum, by the way. My town read on Jimmmmm is based on my meta-understanding of Jimmmmm's way of playing, his towny actions on D2, and his pro-town willingness to self-hammer.
My vote on me is real. My lynch is a better one than Jimmmmm's. I have access to stuff on the map, sure, and whatever I may have in my possession already, but there's no guarantee I survive. I'm still a VT--I'd rather lose a VT than an unknown.
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Also, Ozle, for what it's worth, I find the lack of suspicion of Eevee by the town very odd. I mentioned that in my re-read. That would seem to be something you would appreciate, given you also suspect Eevee.
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...why did you just claim VT?
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...why did you just claim VT?
Because I am? And it has zero bearing on the game. And I really am willing to be lynched to save a possible (any possible) PR. This is a fundamental belief in my mafia playstyle--be willing to sacrifice yourself to save stronger roles on your team.
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yes, but as a VT you want to be NKed! now you won't be for sure.
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yes, but as a VT you want to be NKed! now you won't be for sure.
Unless being lynched saves someone better.
Besides, if I don't die today, and I survive the night, maybe I won't be a VT anymore.
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that's a good point. I guess in this game the whole VT's trying to get themself NKed isn't true as much.
You really think that you're a better lynch than Jimmmmm? I mean, you don't know 100% that Jimmmmmm is town, even if you think that.
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I would be VERY interested in hearing jimmms view on you when he is back tomorrow.....except for me it would have to be thursday as im not about tomorrow much.
Jimmmm, when you get to this point, please can you make sure you give ashersky a re-read!
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that's a good point. I guess in this game the whole VT's trying to get themself NKed isn't true as much.
You really think that you're a better lynch than Jimmmmm? I mean, you don't know 100% that Jimmmmmm is town, even if you think that.
Its a good point,but it then makes his whole 'im a vt so lynch me' largely irrelevant as everyone is a vt unless they have access to night items.
If ashersky has access to good night stuff then he shouldnt be offering himself up
If he doesnt he should be trying to get nightkilled
Either way he shouldnt want to be lynched.....which is why im thinking gambit
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that's a good point. I guess in this game the whole VT's trying to get themself NKed isn't true as much.
You really think that you're a better lynch than Jimmmmm? I mean, you don't know 100% that Jimmmmmm is town, even if you think that.
That's a fair point. But generally speaking, when someone is tunneled this hard, they're town. That's been the case recently, anyway.
I mean, Jimmmmm can speak up and say he'd rather be lynched than me, I guess.
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I'm very willing to take him up on the offer...
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Sigh, looks like this day is going on longer... Unvote for now.
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Lekkit! You're online, get in here!
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I think Jimmm is probably not the best lynch today. His flip would be informative since a lot of people have expressed their reads on him, though. As for my reads on him, I'm really torn. On one hand, he's basically done what Kooshie did. Stayed back and defended himself when accused. Not really helping town. But he hasn't done it to the same extent as Kooshie. I have reasons to believe he's town based on his map claiming. And that makes me somewhat reluctant to actually lynch him.
I do however think that ash looks really bad. But then I find him scummy most of the time. This game has been extra bad, though. I don't really have much time to post stuff today, but I'll try my best to actually do some proper analysis tomorrow.
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going back to reread people i talked about now. As I see it, jimm still hasn't done anything, stop giving him a pass. everytime he says hey guys real sorry this is terrible of me, ill reread soon. Hey guys really crappy town play on my part. I'll set a soft deadline to get reads done, hey ill self hammer tomorrow if were still stuck. THIS ISNT HELPING THIS IS SLOWING THE GAME DOWN AND DEFLECTING.
ppe: wait why is his map claiming town, should i claim, should we mass claim??? no we shouldn't because claiming is bad, he asked if he should claim realized we would say no, and claimed before anyone said anything. He wanted to look towny by claiming.
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Gah, mcmc, you're bringing me back to Vote: Jimmmmm...
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No town credit for Jimmm for not lying in his map claim. He isnt dumb, he knows he would have gotten caught.
In the ozle-ashersky argument, ashersky comes out towny to me.
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No town credit for Jimmm for not lying in his map claim. He isnt dumb, he knows he would have gotten caught.
In the ozle-ashersky argument, ashersky comes out towny to me.
yay 100% agree now vote for jimm gosh darnit
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No town credit for Jimmm for not lying in his map claim. He isnt dumb, he knows he would have gotten caught.
In the ozle-ashersky argument, ashersky comes out towny to me.
yay 100% agree now vote for jimm gosh darnit
Oh no I still think he is town.
Look, I know, wasting time is bad, mostly because no one is going to reread all this (hopefully specific persons at least). Still, no game has ever ran out of time. In fact, having played my fair share of blitz, i can positively guarantee we will be able to make things happen fast in the end game if need be.
So, I'm not going to vote for someone that reads towny to me, it goes against every fiber of my being.
Ozle, sparky, Lekkit, yuma, even mcmc or insomniac are better choices i think.
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No town credit for Jimmm for not lying in his map claim. He isnt dumb, he knows he would have gotten caught.
In the ozle-ashersky argument, ashersky comes out towny to me.
yay 100% agree now vote for jimm gosh darnit
But no scum points for it either, because really, it doesn't make you any more likely to be scum to do that.
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No town credit for Jimmm for not lying in his map claim. He isnt dumb, he knows he would have gotten caught.
In the ozle-ashersky argument, ashersky comes out towny to me.
yay 100% agree now vote for jimm gosh darnit
Oh no I still think he is town.
Look, I know, wasting time is bad, mostly because no one is going to reread all this (hopefully specific persons at least). Still, no game has ever ran out of time. In fact, having played my fair share of blitz, i can positively guarantee we will be able to make things happen fast in the end game if need be.
So, I'm not going to vote for someone that reads towny to me, it goes against every fiber of my being.
Ozle, sparky, Lekkit, yuma, even mcmc or insomniac are better choices i think.
Man, I really hope you are town, given I agree with you so much this game.
Also, if Jimmmmm IS scum, we're both going to feel REALLY dumb.
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No town credit for Jimmm for not lying in his map claim. He isnt dumb, he knows he would have gotten caught.
In the ozle-ashersky argument, ashersky comes out towny to me.
yay 100% agree now vote for jimm gosh darnit
Oh no I still think he is town.
Look, I know, wasting time is bad, mostly because no one is going to reread all this (hopefully specific persons at least). Still, no game has ever ran out of time. In fact, having played my fair share of blitz, i can positively guarantee we will be able to make things happen fast in the end game if need be.
So, I'm not going to vote for someone that reads towny to me, it goes against every fiber of my being.
Ozle, sparky, Lekkit, yuma, even mcmc or insomniac are better choices i think.
Man, I really hope you are town, given I agree with you so much this game.
Also, if Jimmmmm IS scum, we're both going to feel REALLY dumb.
What's great is if he isn't scum, I don't feel bad, I've never been right and have absolutely no where to go but up...please be scum jimm.
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Jimmmmm is still sitting at L-1, right?
Jimmmmm, I believe it is time you claim what you can. I know there's some opposition to this, and hopefully they'll talk that out here before you decide.
But this is basically a normal mafia game, right? So we all started as VTs and sort of evolve into PRs. In a normal game, we claim at L-1. There's no real counter claiming here, but if Jimmmmm lies about a card (like someone noticed there being different cards with the same powers), we'll see it.
I see Jimmmmm self-claiming (for lack of a better term) as the right move, as opposed to map-claiming (which he already did) which I think gives too much info to scum.
Thoughts?
(I suggest this because, while I disagree with his lynch, I have a feeling someone will hammer before we get an unvote.)
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Ash Jimm already claimed pages back
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Ash Jimm already claimed pages back
He map claimed, I recall. Did he "role" claim?
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He's at L-2, I think. And map claiming is as all he could do...
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He should claim if hes already bought something of import.
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sudgy why did you unvote?
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No town credit for Jimmm for not lying in his map claim. He isnt dumb, he knows he would have gotten caught.
In the ozle-ashersky argument, ashersky comes out towny to me.
yay 100% agree now vote for jimm gosh darnit
Oh no I still think he is town.
Look, I know, wasting time is bad, mostly because no one is going to reread all this (hopefully specific persons at least). Still, no game has ever ran out of time. In fact, having played my fair share of blitz, i can positively guarantee we will be able to make things happen fast in the end game if need be.
So, I'm not going to vote for someone that reads towny to me, it goes against every fiber of my being.
Ozle, sparky, Lekkit, yuma, even mcmc or insomniac are better choices i think.
Man, I really hope you are town, given I agree with you so much this game.
Also, if Jimmmmm IS scum, we're both going to feel REALLY dumb.
+1 on both counts.
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No I haven't bought anything. I think I've claimed everything I can except what room I'm in.
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Dangit, Vote: mail-mi. Eevee is right, it doesn't matter if the day is too long, what's more important is that we lynch scum, and Jimmmmm is not the best lynch. mail-mi is the scummiest one, and all he's claimed is ACCESS to a PR. I've been getting the sense more and more that Jimmmmm is town. I'll probably hop my vote around a bit, mail-mi is not the only other option for me by any means. I don't really care if ya'll find me scummy for "prolonging the day" or whatever, I want to lynch scum!
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Not a PR, I mean something "that could really benefit town"
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I'm willing to vote for any of the lurkers.
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sudgy why did you unvote?
I'm currently in the middle with if Jimmmmm is scum.
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I'm willing to vote for any of the lurkers.
Why don't you go ahead, pick one, and make a case on that person then? Offering up a vote without anything behind it isn't the most helpful thing ever.
Also, I'm out of town on business for the rest of the week and am not sure exactly what my schedule will be in the evenings but I'll be around when I can.
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Raerae is going to be out of town. she isn't town. obvscum!
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I would, but I'm on my iPod, maybe when I get back from Moab.
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Raerae is going to be out of town. she isn't town. obvscum!
+1
Although, she hasn't posted much. Mild FoS. That could be her being busy irl or not being good in big games.
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Raerae is going to be out of town. she isn't town. obvscum!
I laughed out loud at this, thanks for the comic relief :)
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vote: ashersky
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I like Insom's case on sudgy, and would consider that lynch an okay one. Sudgy's desire to get off the Jimmmm lynch (and then back on it) kinda feels to me like a scum player who thinks the lynch of a team mate is inevitable, but is looking for out. Though I still prefer Jimmmm this delay makes me also like the people who are most reluctant to lynch Jimmmm. This actually makes Insom look worse even though I like his case (scum can make a good case though). So do raerae and Eevee.
And I guess slightly ashersky, though I think ashersky is probably town even though I think his refusal to lynch Jimmmm looks scummy. I could be wrong, it wouldn't be the first time. Looking at ashersky and Ozle's argument though I don't really think either of them are scum.
(Also, sorry I've been busy lately, with ummm, other things in the forum that were time consuming.)
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vote: ashersky
There he is!
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I like Insom's case on sudgy, and would consider that lynch an okay one. Sudgy's desire to get off the Jimmmm lynch (and then back on it) kinda feels to me like a scum player who thinks the lynch of a team mate is inevitable, but is looking for out. Though I still prefer Jimmmm this delay makes me also like the people who are most reluctant to lynch Jimmmm. This actually makes Insom look worse even though I like his case (scum can make a good case though). So do raerae and Eevee.
And I guess slightly ashersky, though I think ashersky is probably town even though I think his refusal to lynch Jimmmm looks scummy. I could be wrong, it wouldn't be the first time. Looking at ashersky and Ozle's argument though I don't really think either of them are scum.
(Also, sorry I've been busy lately, with ummm, other things in the forum that were time consuming.)
I think sudgy is a better lynch than Jimmmmm.
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Here's an argument I can make now. Ignoring the Bastard game I've been in two games which started around the same time. In one I was plenty active and most people had Town reads on me, and in the other one I haven't been been. Guess which game I've been prioritising? The game I was scum in. Read the scum QT to see all the scheming we did. I implored my teammate early on not to lurk. I hate that I've made myself resort to using this argument, but it's there.
But, as far as Town lynches go, I'm not a bad one.
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In one I was plenty active and most people had Town reads on me, and in the other one I haven't been been. Guess which game I've been prioritising? The game I was scum in. Read the scum QT to see all the scheming we did. I implored my teammate early on not to lurk.
I think it is fair to have people consider your previous scum performances when deciding if you could be scum in a new game.
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I honestly dont think Jimm is the best lynch anymore. I'd still be willing to lynch him, especially if he goes back to non-content posting, but he isnt doing that now, and we have a much better candidate.
Vote: Ashersky
Summary:
Self Voting
Refuses to vote Jimm for seemingly no reason
Terrible case on me (Which is seemingly wholely down to the fact I gave out other reads while the Kooshie wagon was going on.
Terrible case on Yuma (which essentially amounts to, Ozle is scummy, you dont agree with me, therefore you must be scummy)
Spamming 'tell' posts to increase post count day 1. Which stopped when someone noticed.
Terrible Sheeping.
If we're going to lynch wrong he apparently is the best one to do. (His own words)
Vote for Sudgy out of the blue. Which seems desperation to save Jimmm (when he has nothing but a gut read on Jimm)
Detail:
vote: liopoil
Mcmc is contributing plenty but Kooshie gets your lurker tag? They have the exact same number of posts in your quote. Sounds like trying to form a bad case on D1. Scum tell (really).
Defense of Kooshie.
vote: kooshie
That's 7 and L-2. Good time for increased activity, I say.
Switches to Kooshie with NO REASON AT AT ALL (reasons came later on). This is getting on the wagon if I have ever seen it. And in one of the scummiest spots no less
Terrible scum play, that.
I think we're looking for more newbie scum.
Says we're looking for Newbie scum, then tries to build a case on Yuma and me.
vote: mcmc
2 reasons--this post is scummy (is this about sudgy or me?) and yuma's case.
I will unvote if raerae says you are town.
Sheeps Yuma (who he has previously been saying is scummy
And then offers to unsheep Raerae
Probably means we should be looking at the lurkers.
His own words, which he then completely ignores.
Are you good with a soft Jimmmmm lynch deadline? Say tomorrow at 8:00 p.m. forum time?
Suggests soft Jimmm deadline, doesn't stick to it.
Actually, I'm happy to leave mail-mi alive to be NKed at this point.
This one might be important later.
Jimmmmm has until midnight tomorrow to contribute his promised reads, a deadline he himself proposed. I say we just leave it at that.
Separately, unvote based on raerae's read, as I said I would. Not that mcmc is free of suspicion now, but he's not D2's lynch.
I think mail-mi is just playing badly as town right now, and not intentionally as scum.
Jorbles seems scummy from recent comments, and could see a Jorbles lynch being a good one. I don't like the "let's see if he lives through the night" comment at all, and his vote jumping with regards to Jimmmmm seems opportunistic ("oh, he was at L-2? Gotta keep that chance going!").
vote: jorbles
The proposed sheep of raerae
Confirmation of Jimmmm deadline that Ashersky doesnt stick too
Vote for Jorbles
"Then there his interaction with Yuma calling him out as scummy because he was ignoring my scummy play (No real reference to my scummyplay)" There's a lot of quotes there, but they are just back and forth. I dont consider it scummy.
We are at even parity...we could no lynch.
Suggest No lynch.
We cannot get a concensus on Jimmmm, how on earth are we going to get a no lynch.
If jimmmmm flips town, Yuma knows we are coming after him hard for pushing a mislynch against all opposition.
Basically, jimmmmm flips town (as I think he will) and I open D3 with a Yuma vote that will not go away.
Back to Yuma again.
Not considering other options ever is a bad move.
yuma, if I hammer Jimmmmm, will it change your mind about me?
Offer to hammer Jimmm. (Later claims not a serious offer, just trying to trick Yuma)
"Then comes the big switch from Yuma to me, been over that one already"
I could switch to sudgy, if that got going. Insom's case on him is better than a Jimmmmm lynch.
Completely out of the blue offer to vote for Sudgy based solely on Insoms case.
Someone who has not appeared on ANY of his 'i think is scummy lists' so far!
Also, Ozle, for what it's worth, I find the lack of suspicion of Eevee by the town very odd. I mentioned that in my re-read. That would seem to be something you would appreciate, given you also suspect Eevee.
Interesting that the previous buddying with Eevee now becomes suspicion.
(and I do appreciate it!)
One of his big critisizms of me was I was saying Eevee was scummy while the Kooshie wagon was going on.
So when I voice suspicions, its scummy. When the rest of you dont, its suspicious!
And then we have all the recent stuff which people should be able to read for themselves.
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As Ozle points out, I am indeed the better mislynch. Thank you Ozle for seeing the light on Jimmmmm.
Please, everyone, strongly consider lynching Ozle as soon as possible on D3. You clearly don't have to believe me now, but when I am lynched, and am confirmed as town, you can look back at these interactions and understand how it was scum on town.
Please, please re-read all of Ozle's posts with me (and yuma's) after I am confirmed town. Then you can know for sure that I am not lying, not trying to mislead anyone, and only doing what I think is best for town.
Now, I think it's time for that lynch. But remember my dying words: At least one of Ozle and Yuma is scum. At least one of the acti-lurkers (Lekkit, Jorbles, Insom, raerae) is scum. Check out their interactions with me throughout D2. See how suspects interacted with conf!town.
I would say lynch Ozle first, on D3. See who dies the next few nights. Go from there on D4.
I won't claim what I know of the map, given I know some key card locations. What I have purchased, town can survive without.
Don't let me down guys!
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.. yeah. How about we skip the phase where we lynch ashersky? I'd rather try to continue lynching mountbanks.
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As Ozle points out, I am indeed the better mislynch. Thank you Ozle for seeing the light on Jimmmmm.
Please, everyone, strongly consider lynching Ozle as soon as possible on D3. You clearly don't have to believe me now, but when I am lynched, and am confirmed as town, you can look back at these interactions and understand how it was scum on town.
Please, please re-read all of Ozle's posts with me (and yuma's) after I am confirmed town. Then you can know for sure that I am not lying, not trying to mislead anyone, and only doing what I think is best for town.
Now, I think it's time for that lynch. But remember my dying words: At least one of Ozle and Yuma is scum. At least one of the acti-lurkers (Lekkit, Jorbles, Insom, raerae) is scum. Check out their interactions with me throughout D2. See how suspects interacted with conf!town.
I would say lynch Ozle first, on D3. See who dies the next few nights. Go from there on D4.
I won't claim what I know of the map, given I know some key card locations. What I have purchased, town can survive without.
Don't let me down guys!
First off, 'see the light', what have you actually said about Jimm that makes him townie to you?! Nothing. You have just tried to , in your terminology, deflect the lynch onto someone else, repeatedly, with several different people.
So anyone who builds a decent case on your scummy actions is obvscum? Please....im not the only one who thinks you are scummy.
Hopefully this lynch will go through, and if indeed you turn out to be town, then you have played a very bad town game to be honest and I shall be very annoyed.
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Also, you seem so 100% sure in your own reads, despite flipping your vote around.
Originally If Jimmm turned out town it was all 100% we should lynch Yuma on day 3, with you saying you would think of no other thing.
Now if you turn out as town you say town should do no other thing but lynch me?
Despite the fact im not the one even leading your lynch, you are, then a couple of others, and then me. But I am the only one presenting an actual case. So someone who actually presents a good case on someone is more scummy than people who just sheep and jump on the wagon.
Again, why as town would you want to discourage people building cases
Or is it just me you dont like giving reads and actually stating a case rather than just voting?
Is this because i listed you as one of my scum reads early on, because im pretty sure you had said nothing against me till then, and had even agreed with me as the lastt hing before that.
Would you rather I just sheeped peoples votes like you have been doing?
We obviously have different ways of playing this game...
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I have reads, they are out there. If you have no confidence in your own reads, they aren't very useful, right? So yes, I do have confidence in them.
We clearly have different play styles, and that's okay. As town, I always strive to help town, even if some feel I am not helping. As town, I am open to dying for the cause. As town, I give honest reads, sometimes based on gut, sometimes posts, sometimes interactions.
I don't know how many times I have to post my reasons on Jimmmmm before you will give me credit for giving my reasons. I think that scum!Jimmmmm plays this differently. I just had a full-on case study of scum!Jimmmmm. I have played against scum Jimmmmm before, as scum myself. So I don't think this is scum!Jimmmmm. I am socially deducing that. Plus, Jimmmmm doesn't kill the easy lynch, if he's scum.
Those are my reasons for having a town read on Jimmmmm.
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I have reads, they are out there. If you have no confidence in your own reads, they aren't very useful, right? So yes, I do have confidence in them.
Confidence in them and believing them to be 100% irrefutably right that you would not consider any other action are not the same thing.....
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And that self belief is what will possibly get two townies lynched if you are town.
You are acting scummy, even if you are not scum. This gives people a legitimate reason to vote for you.
If you are town, why would you give scum an easy ride.
And then if you are town, you go on to say there should be no other lynch than the person who actually pointed out where your obvious scummy play was. in detail.
Not based on a 'gut feeling' like apparently your irrefutable read on Jimm is (despite everyone say Jimmm is excellent scum which means he is quite capableof mixing his game up)
If you are town, and your 'gut feelings' and voting for your obvious scumminess cause me to be lynched tomorrow you'll probably have lost the game for town, and I will put all of the blame for that on you.
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Hopefully this lynch will go through, and if indeed you turn out to be town, then you have played a very bad town game to be honest and I shall be very annoyed.
I would say that same thing about you. If you are town, deflecting from Kooshie was bad town play. Tunneling on me is bad town play. At least I'm willing to die to prove myself as a true innocent, and to help this bank rid itself of Mountebanks.
I believe a townie who can get scum to interact with them for an extended time is doing the town a great service. The more scum has to post, the more there is from that scum to analyze. That's where the LALL thing stems from, right? Scum lurk because it's safer. I think you and/or Yuma are scum. You've both engaged me a lot. Town has plenty to study when I'm dead. They'll. draw their own conclusions, and you'll be around to try and sway them.
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People who still think that jimm is the most likely of us to flip today, have you seen the dragon quicktopic for RMM7? Do you think that Jimmm doesn't care about this game for some reason or that he decided to delibirately play like this in hopes of seeming super towny?
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And that self belief is what will possibly get two townies lynched if you are town.
You are acting scummy, even if you are not scum. This gives people a legitimate reason to vote for you.
If you are town, why would you give scum an easy ride.
And then if you are town, you go on to say there should be no other lynch than the person who actually pointed out where your obvious scummy play was. in detail.
Not based on a 'gut feeling' like apparently your irrefutable read on Jimm is (despite everyone say Jimmm is excellent scum which means he is quite capableof mixing his game up)
If you are town, and your 'gut feelings' and voting for your obvious scumminess cause me to be lynched tomorrow you'll probably have lost the game for town, and I will put all of the blame for that on you.
Because clearly the town will blindly act on my orders. Right.
I am not "acting scummy." I'm just being myself. I mean, look at all the posts from people saying "scum read on ash, but I always get that." Go read my scum games. The Switch and Sea Hag games are me "acting scummy," as I suck at being scum. I've improved since then. Actually, you remember D1 of your game that I double-won? How "scummy" did I seem then, and blithely confident in my plan? I was town then, too.
Don't blame me if town loses the game after I'm dead.
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Oh, I forgot to mention previously, you listed the "ash inflating his post count" thing as a reason in your case against me. That's a scummy misrepresentation of me as a mafia games player, given my propensity to post a lot every game anyway. I made the Top 10 posters (along with you, I think?) during theory's April Fool's thing even though I didn't start playing until MX.
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Oh, I forgot to mention previously, you listed the "ash inflating his post count" thing as a reason in your case against me. That's a scummy misrepresentation of me as a mafia games player, given my propensity to post a lot every game anyway. I made the Top 10 posters (along with you, I think?) during theory's April Fool's thing even though I didn't start playing until MX.
You usually post a lot, nowhere did I say you did not, in fact I think that makes your actions there even MORE scummy (and im in the top 10 post counts WITHOUT mafia so I fail to see how that is relevant here)
In this game you tried to inflate your post count by posting a lot without content. And then stopped the minute someone pointed out what you were doing.
Usually you are high in the post counts without having to artificially inflate.
So no, not a misrepresentation of you at all, by your own words you post a lot in games. In THIS games you tried to get a high post count without content.
good job pulling out a minor thing of the entire case to try and refute!
Sounds like you do want to fight your lynch after all.....
I am not "acting scummy." I'm just being myself. I mean, look at all the posts from people saying "scum read on ash, but I always get that." Go read my scum games. The Switch and Sea Hag games are me "acting scummy," as I suck at being scum. I've improved since then. Actually, you remember D1 of your game that I double-won? How "scummy" did I seem then, and blithely confident in my plan? I was town then, too.
Don't blame me if town loses the game after I'm dead.
So, you acknowledge that your actions make you act scummy to other people?. And you continue to play the same way?
Well done, you automatically start town off with a disadvantage.
"Actually, you remember D1 of your game that I double-won? How "scummy" did I seem then, and blithely confident in my plan? I was town then, too."
And I do remember you crazy statements from my last game.
Most of which were WRONG.
You had a flavour cop role you claimed REPEATEDLY could help catch scum, when it could do no such thing (what it was there to do was help you win the flavour victory)
And the main person you accused of being scum for a long long time was Galzria. You even pulled the same moves.
Oh look, Galzria was town......
Town won that game because the town PR's managed to catch the last scum dead to rights with power roles (Watcher and cop results). Had nothing to do with you I'm afraid or your bad incorrect reads.
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Not fighting my lynch, encouraging it, even.
Just pointing out things I think are scummy about you and your "case" on me.
Really, my case on me is better than yours.
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People who still think that jimm is the most likely of us to flip today, have you seen the dragon quicktopic for RMM7? Do you think that Jimmm doesn't care about this game for some reason or that he decided to delibirately play like this in hopes of seeming super towny?
Exactly. In fact, Vote: sudgy for not realising this earlier.
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Can we have an official vote count?
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Is Insomniac usually this lurky? I'm kind of suspicious of him from that, and Jimmmmm too. He wasn't lurky in my earlier game with him (even though he was only alive D1)
I'm a little bit more suspicious of Jimmmmm than Insomniac at the moment, but that might be because I've played with Jimmmmm before.
Meanwhile he's scum with me in another game in which he says (http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/wrmV36dJw4c), "Also, I feel like you have been doing amazing. I would not suspect you at this point if I was town." [#68] (In fact that quote is from earlier than the above two quotes.) Now obviously he can't publicly use that a reason to say that I'm probably Town, but surely that would have been in Town sudgy's mind.
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Now, I think it's time for that lynch. But remember my dying words: At least one of Ozle and Yuma is scum. At least one of the acti-lurkers (Lekkit, Jorbles, Insom, raerae) is scum. Check out their interactions with me throughout D2. See how suspects interacted with conf!town.
Hey ash, let's not lynch you eh?
vote: Ozle. Really I think ash is playing a game that I haven't seen him play before, I don't know what to make of it yet. So props to you ash for changing your scum game or becoming more protown as town. Either way, if we aren't going to lynch Jimmmm or mcmc, we should continue to stay off wagon. So that is yuma, Insomniac, sparky (archetype, has he posted since subbing in?) and Ozle.
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People who still think that jimm is the most likely of us to flip today, have you seen the dragon quicktopic for RMM7? Do you think that Jimmm doesn't care about this game for some reason or that he decided to delibirately play like this in hopes of seeming super towny?
I am going to say one thing in response to this. Even though I am no longer voting for Jimmmm. Scum that is as subtle and complicated as Jimmmm are capable of playing more than one scum style at a time, especially when they know that a lot of the players know their alignment in this game ash, sudgy, raerae and yuma all knew Jimmmm's alignment. See me in MXX compared to MXIX where in one I buss hard and in the other I defend and deflect. If Jimmmm is as good at playing scum as you say he is he is capable of playing off another game. I have done it.
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Oh, I forgot you were a co-mod of LoTR. raerae knew my alignment?
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Oh, I forgot you were a co-mod of LoTR. raerae knew my alignment?
I was barely a co-mod, but knew alignment. Ash will know better about raerae, I thougth that she investigated you the day she died. I followed that game along enough to know who won, but don't know specifics, so maybe it wasn't raerae, but was the other cop?
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Oh, I forgot you were a co-mod of LoTR. raerae knew my alignment?
Raerae investigated you the night you Godfathered. You killed her.
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Unvote myself.
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Yuma is right in reminding us all where we should be focusing. We will find scum off-wagon. No way all three bussed.
Back to vote: ozle as that's clearly what I've been pushing for, and it was where I had my vote prior to self voting.
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"Changing up his game" I could see happening, just willingly attracting suspicion like this just isnt a reasonable change.
And look, I'm not saying he couldnt be scum. I'm saying he isnt the most likely to be scum! Anyone else COULD be scum too.
ozle and sudgy are both good targets in my opinion.
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Oh, I forgot you were a co-mod of LoTR. raerae knew my alignment?
Raerae investigated you the night you Godfathered. You killed her.
Wait, I'm confused. So raerae absolutely didn't know my alignment?
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One last comment before I turn in for the night--I know we've been worried about using too much time, but I think these pages we've generated recently have been useful and important for future days.
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Oh, I forgot you were a co-mod of LoTR. raerae knew my alignment?
Raerae investigated you the night you Godfathered. You killed her.
Wait, I'm confused. So raerae absolutely didn't know my alignment?
Right. Yuma is confusing folks from that game.
Galz, Yuma, and I had the Mod QT. sudgy was your partner. No one else knew you were scum until today.
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"Changing up his game" I could see happening, just willingly attracting suspicion like this just isnt a reasonable change.
And look, I'm not saying he couldnt be scum. I'm saying he isnt the most likely to be scum! Anyone else COULD be scum too.
ozle and sudgy are both good targets in my opinion.
I'm not saying that I objectively couldn't be scum either. I'm saying given that now we have a great example of me actually being scum and given how I've played this game it should seem really unlikely. When I'm scum, my goal is to get Towncred, and I really haven't done anything to that end. Maybe I've planned that all along though, so that after LoTR ended I could use this exact argument, except I really had no idea when LoTR was going to end. For a while I thought I was going to be lynched before it ended, and it would be too late to make this argument.
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Unvote myself.
What a surprise.
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Unvote myself.
What a surprise.
Do you notice how alone you are with your ashersky suspicion? Does is matter to you at all? You make it seem like everyone thinks he is scum when in my understanding it's mostly you thinking that and being very vocal about it.
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Yea I can get behind the ozzle lynch. Still need to look back at him and Yuma. I'm now feeling it hard to ramp myself up in this game again. I burned out on my Jimm insom power push.
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Unvote myself.
What a surprise.
Do you notice how alone you are with your ashersky suspicion? Does is matter to you at all? You make it seem like everyone thinks he is scum when in my understanding it's mostly you thinking that and being very vocal about it.
You mean apart from the big case I put together that everyone seems to be ignoring rather than you and Ash voting for me based on pretty much nothing?
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Vote: Lekkit. LALL. I still think he has the least content, and his vote on kooshie is really scummy.
I'm leaning town on Jimmmmm, ozle, and ashersky now. Lekkit, mail-mi, or sudgy are the best lynches for today I think. I really don't understand why lekkit hasn't gotten more attention for lurking, and my guess is that it's because he's scum and there are two people who don't want him to be lynched.
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I have to agree with Ash and Lio, that list is shady. The other thing that's super off to me is the mail-mi read. Mail-mi is fitting his meta and I see no reason to point fingers at it yet. I am concerned that lio may be bussing but I'm less convinced of his scumitude now.
I'll Unvote for now.
"I am concerned that lio may be bussing". this is a perfectly valid concern now, but this was during D1. Gives the sense to me that she knows kooshie is scum. Raerae is also one who joined the kooshie wagon kind of quickly. (she put kooshie at L-1 shortly after).
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Vote Count 2.11
Jimm (4) -- Jorbles, mcmcsalot, mail-mi, sudgy
sudgy (2) -- Insomniac, Jimm
mail-mi (1) -- raerae
Ozle (3) -- Eevee, yuma, ashersky
ashersky (1) -- Ozle
Lekkit (1) -- liopoil
Not Voting (2) -- Archetype, Lekkit
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. The game ends on April 29th at 7:00 PM. There are 26 days left.
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People who still think that jimm is the most likely of us to flip today, have you seen the dragon quicktopic for RMM7? Do you think that Jimmm doesn't care about this game for some reason or that he decided to delibirately play like this in hopes of seeming super towny?
Exactly. In fact, Vote: sudgy for not realising this earlier.
What was I supposed to say before the RMM7 was over? "I'm not voting for Jimmmmm because I know he's scum in a game he's in and is playing differently now." It hurt me slightly to vote for you (I still did have a bit of a suspicion of you). Unvote.
Now, I find ashersky a bit suspicious for voting for me when I'm playing the same as I did in MXXI, when he knew I was town that game. But he did unvote... I'm not sure. I guess I could lynch either him or Ozle (for the reasons you guys gave).
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Here's an argument I can make now. Ignoring the Bastard game I've been in two games which started around the same time. In one I was plenty active and most people had Town reads on me, and in the other one I haven't been been. Guess which game I've been prioritising? The game I was scum in. Read the scum QT to see all the scheming we did. I implored my teammate early on not to lurk. I hate that I've made myself resort to using this argument, but it's there.
But, as far as Town lynches go, I'm not a bad one.
Okay this sheds some new light on things, and I am going to switch my vote to sudgy because of this. I would still consider lynching Jimmmm because he could have consciously done this for this reason, but I admit it's much less likely.
Vote: sudgy
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Vote: sudgy because my top three lynches for today (mail-mi, lekkit, and sudgy) this seems the most likely to go through.
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guys! robz is getting on a plane! if we lynch now we can have a nice long twilight!
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Raerae, what do you think? You've always been good at reading me.
Anyway, I almost have the gold key. I'm either getting it tonight or giving up. You can lynch me tomorrow but you don't want to today because you'll lose the gold key if you do. I'm saying this because people are voting for me like crazy.
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Raerae, what do you think? You've always been good at reading me.
Anyway, I almost have the gold key. I'm either getting it tonight or giving up. You can lynch me tomorrow but you don't want to today because you'll lose the gold key if you do. I'm saying this because people are voting for me like crazy.
If we think there's a good chance sudgy is scum this is actually a reason to lynch him now before he can buy the key. (I think there's a better chance of this than with most people)
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If I am almost lynched, do you guys think I should say where the key is? This might help scum if they don't know where it is, but a townie might be able to get there sooner. I'm not sure...
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I see the case on sudgy and acknowledge it. I acknowledge that it has some merit. But again I don't see it as being anything so extraordinary. None of the cases today have been. But remember we do have one big factor to take into consideration and I have said it before and will say it again.
There are three scum remaining. I refuse to believe that all three players bussed. I also find it very unlikely that two players bussed (I would put it at 33% or less). I also find it somewhat likely that all didn't buss (I would put it at 33%). As such the biggest contributing factor to finding scum I think is going to be finding ~2 scum players among the 6 off wagoners than it will be to find ~1 scum player among the 8 on wagon players.
So here again is the mini-breakdown of these players:
Ozle - who I am voting for. Jumped onto the Kooshie case late w/o ever really having participated in it.
mcmc - defended kooshie heavily. I can see why people think this is townie. However, seeing recent games in which scum won by defending (MXX, MXIX and that blitz game where Robz uber defended joth) their teammates.
jimmmm - kooshie's biggest townread. I still think obvious play is obvious. But his wagon is gone, let's not bring it back to life because it obviously aint happening today.
yuma - obvtown to me. Not to others. ash presented a case on me a ways back. Go find it if you are interested.
sparky (arch) - major lurking to the both of them. I know arch replaced in, but has he posted yet? He said he would be back Tuesday, but isn't back yet. Can we get a prod to remind Arch that he is in this game? Would be willing to lynch. also remember that sparky also jumped out of a game as scum in MXIX and lurked through the beginning of it in and was replaced by theMunch.
Insomniac - not a lot of posting, but enough content to make me content (get it?) I would like more because Insom is a great player. But I think he is giving what he can and we will just have to deal. Won't lynch.
So to rank: Ozle, mcmc, arch, jimmm, insom, yuma
I think we need to hunker down and focus our options. People seem ok with wasting time. I am not. There is only one scum team, meaning probably only one kill per night barring vig powers. This game could go on for days and days. It is a Robz game... and while last game had lots of players it lasted 11 days. This game could go 7-8 days long! We can't waste time.
End of the line. I am willing to vote for ozle, mcmc, arch and jimmm and will be voting for the player among this list that has the most votes at any given time.
I strongly encourage others to only look off wagon for today. It is tempting to look elsewhere, but all things equal, I think we are less likely to find scum on wagon. But save those cases until tomorrow when we have a little more time to analyze everything.
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There are three scum remaining. I refuse to believe that all three players bussed. I also find it very unlikely that two players bussed (I would put it at 33% or less). I also find it somewhat likely that all didn't buss (I would put it at 33%). As such the biggest contributing factor to finding scum I think is going to be finding ~2 scum players among the 6 off wagoners than it will be to find ~1 scum player among the 8 on wagon players.
I absolutely agree with this line of reasoning. I think your percentages are a bit generous, maybe (I don't see a 1 in 3 chance that no teammates voted for Kooshie -- at least one of the late voters or "willing to vote"-ers I think would have been a partner). With a 4 person team, I'd guess 1 on the wagon, 2 off the wagon.
And 2/6 is a pretty good shot at finding scum.
So to those voting wagon members (Insom, Jimmmmm, Jorbles, raerae, Ozle, and Liopoil), would you be willing to look at the 6 off-wagon?
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Alright, I agree, and it seems Ozle is the most likely (and more scummy than some of them). Vote: Ozle.
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vote: Ozzie
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What a joke this is, thats 4 votes on me without a decent reason.
I can't put up a defense to no case. Asherskys whole case on me is that i 'deflected' the kooshie lynch by voicing suspicions of eevee (someone he also 'claims to suspect)
Thats it, thats the whooooole case.
Yumas case is i jumped on the wagon, i gave full reasons for that, it was the only case going on the day, we were not getting anywhere and we were using up bankable days that were much more valuable later in the game. Its a reason, a good one in my view or i wouldn't have done it.
Half the people seem to be voting for me because i wanted to hammer kooshie, the half because i didnt.
You people know we're not at random voting stage anymore right?
If your going to vote for me, build a case and do it properly at least.
I refuse to sit here and let you all vote for me based on throwaway lines of nothing substantial. You people are better than that.
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Ok, maybe you aren'tbetter than that, this is a waste ofmy time.
Yay, lets all ignore thelogical way to play this game and go on gut feelings and our awesome meta reads shall.
Lets look at the last 11 games.....oh look, scum won 8/11. (Interestingly enough, the ones town won, ashersky was either scum or the mod..,in reference to our earlier discussion, .what do you think that tells you about your playstyle ashersky?)
Now lets look at the first 11 games. Town are upto50% win rate
You know why i think that is?
Because players think they have got so good at 'reading' other people that they get lazy and just do it by gut feel.
Its the equivilant of people playing poker who still think the main way to win is to watch for someonne who scratches his nose while bluffing.
You people need to stop trusting on instinct and 'meta reads' and use that actual calculating skill you have (and most of you are top dominion players so i know you have it)
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What a joke this is, thats 4 votes on me without a decent reason.
I can't put up a defense to no case. Asherskys whole case on me is that i 'deflected' the kooshie lynch by voicing suspicions of eevee (someone he also 'claims to suspect)
Thats it, thats the whooooole case.
Yumas case is i jumped on the wagon, i gave full reasons for that, it was the only case going on the day, we were not getting anywhere and we were using up bankable days that were much more valuable later in the game. Its a reason, a good one in my view or i wouldn't have done it.
just because you gave reasons, doesn't mean I think your reasons are good. I do find it odd that ash agreed with your reasons at the time, but now finds you scummy, but we can deal with that later.
The fact remains that what you did was scummy. I think it was just slightly less scummy than the kooshie-jimmm and kooshie-mcmc interactions I have been outlining all day long. If I had done the same, you would think it was scummy. But I didn't, you did. So I am voting you.
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Lets look at the last 11 games.....oh look, scum won 8/11. (Interestingly enough, the ones town won, ashersky was either scum or the mod..,in reference to our earlier discussion, .what do you think that tells you about your playstyle ashersky?)
This may be getting out of the realm of discussing what I'm doing in this game and turning into "Ash you suck at playing this game" stuff.
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Okay, to recap, because Ozle doesn't like the votes on him, and thinks the case sucks, here is my case (again), taking things only from my own posts. These are things that I think seem scummy. These are actual things Ozle did, not feelings I have or gut reads.
1. Ozle attacked Liopoil on D1, and I think Liopoil is town. He did this whilst defending Kooshie.
2. Ozle tried to deflect the attention from the Kooshie case to Eevee, whilst defending Kooshie. This happened early enough in D1 that it wasn't a scum desperation move, it was a scum calculated move.
3. Ozle's "intent to hammer" post near the end of the day, with little reasoning. <Note: I accept the scum points I get for the "agree with ozle's reasons" post right after it.>
4. Ozle asked for everyone's spawning points on D2 (well, asked if anyone spawned in a hallway, and got some "no" responses before that got shut down).
5. Ozle continuously asked me to give my reasons for finding Jimmmmm towny, even though I had given them multiple times.
6. Ozle used the "artificially inflating his post count" argument in his case against me.
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And for fairness's sake, here is Ozle's case on me:
I honestly dont think Jimm is the best lynch anymore. I'd still be willing to lynch him, especially if he goes back to non-content posting, but he isnt doing that now, and we have a much better candidate.
Vote: Ashersky
Summary:
Self Voting
Refuses to vote Jimm for seemingly no reason
Terrible case on me (Which is seemingly wholely down to the fact I gave out other reads while the Kooshie wagon was going on.
Terrible case on Yuma (which essentially amounts to, Ozle is scummy, you dont agree with me, therefore you must be scummy)
Spamming 'tell' posts to increase post count day 1. Which stopped when someone noticed.
Terrible Sheeping.
If we're going to lynch wrong he apparently is the best one to do. (His own words)
Vote for Sudgy out of the blue. Which seems desperation to save Jimmm (when he has nothing but a gut read on Jimm)
Detail:
vote: liopoil
Mcmc is contributing plenty but Kooshie gets your lurker tag? They have the exact same number of posts in your quote. Sounds like trying to form a bad case on D1. Scum tell (really).
Defense of Kooshie.
vote: kooshie
That's 7 and L-2. Good time for increased activity, I say.
Switches to Kooshie with NO REASON AT AT ALL (reasons came later on). This is getting on the wagon if I have ever seen it. And in one of the scummiest spots no less
Terrible scum play, that.
I think we're looking for more newbie scum.
Says we're looking for Newbie scum, then tries to build a case on Yuma and me.
vote: mcmc
2 reasons--this post is scummy (is this about sudgy or me?) and yuma's case.
I will unvote if raerae says you are town.
Sheeps Yuma (who he has previously been saying is scummy
And then offers to unsheep Raerae
Probably means we should be looking at the lurkers.
His own words, which he then completely ignores.
Are you good with a soft Jimmmmm lynch deadline? Say tomorrow at 8:00 p.m. forum time?
Suggests soft Jimmm deadline, doesn't stick to it.
Actually, I'm happy to leave mail-mi alive to be NKed at this point.
This one might be important later.
Jimmmmm has until midnight tomorrow to contribute his promised reads, a deadline he himself proposed. I say we just leave it at that.
Separately, unvote based on raerae's read, as I said I would. Not that mcmc is free of suspicion now, but he's not D2's lynch.
I think mail-mi is just playing badly as town right now, and not intentionally as scum.
Jorbles seems scummy from recent comments, and could see a Jorbles lynch being a good one. I don't like the "let's see if he lives through the night" comment at all, and his vote jumping with regards to Jimmmmm seems opportunistic ("oh, he was at L-2? Gotta keep that chance going!").
vote: jorbles
The proposed sheep of raerae
Confirmation of Jimmmm deadline that Ashersky doesnt stick too
Vote for Jorbles
"Then there his interaction with Yuma calling him out as scummy because he was ignoring my scummy play (No real reference to my scummyplay)" There's a lot of quotes there, but they are just back and forth. I dont consider it scummy.
We are at even parity...we could no lynch.
Suggest No lynch.
We cannot get a concensus on Jimmmm, how on earth are we going to get a no lynch.
If jimmmmm flips town, Yuma knows we are coming after him hard for pushing a mislynch against all opposition.
Basically, jimmmmm flips town (as I think he will) and I open D3 with a Yuma vote that will not go away.
Back to Yuma again.
Not considering other options ever is a bad move.
yuma, if I hammer Jimmmmm, will it change your mind about me?
Offer to hammer Jimmm. (Later claims not a serious offer, just trying to trick Yuma)
"Then comes the big switch from Yuma to me, been over that one already"
I could switch to sudgy, if that got going. Insom's case on him is better than a Jimmmmm lynch.
Completely out of the blue offer to vote for Sudgy based solely on Insoms case.
Someone who has not appeared on ANY of his 'i think is scummy lists' so far!
Also, Ozle, for what it's worth, I find the lack of suspicion of Eevee by the town very odd. I mentioned that in my re-read. That would seem to be something you would appreciate, given you also suspect Eevee.
Interesting that the previous buddying with Eevee now becomes suspicion.
(and I do appreciate it!)
One of his big critisizms of me was I was saying Eevee was scummy while the Kooshie wagon was going on.
So when I voice suspicions, its scummy. When the rest of you dont, its suspicious!
And then we have all the recent stuff which people should be able to read for themselves.
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Just got back to the hotel and feel like trash so no reading tonight. I know I'll have time tomorrow and I'm really sorry guys. I knew this month would be busy but I didn't anticipate this much busy. My final vote for today will be cast tomorrow evening by 11pm forum time. I, again, encourage everybody to long hard look at mail-mi as he still hasn't done anything. Lio, I understand he's claimed to have something valuable to town but what makes you believe him? Feel free to quote if you've already answered this.
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I just got home from Moab and will be retreading soon.
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I just got home from Moab and will be retreading soon.
mail-mi did have a real and announced VLA, so I think he deserves a pass for the past few days. His contributions from here on out should be scruitinized.
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I just got home from Moab and will be retreading soon.
Mail-mi is retreating! Attack! (Sorry, I can't help myself...)
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I just got home from Moab and will be retreading soon.
Mail-mi is retreating! Attack! (Sorry, I can't help myself...)
No retreat means "stop attacking!" Please, no! *cowers in fear*
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Vote: ozle if I wasn't on him already.
I haven't seen ozle defend himself like this, but this feels like a classic scum brig frustrated for getting caught for wrong reasons defense. He isn't explaining why he is town, he is escaping why the reasons to vote for him are in his opinion inadequate.
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Vote: ozle if I wasn't on him already.
I haven't seen ozle defend himself like this, but this feels like a classic scum brig frustrated for getting caught for wrong reasons defense. He isn't explaining why he is town, he is escaping why the reasons to vote for him are in his opinion inadequate.
I had the same thought. I call it the Mcmc Syndrome. He was scum and caught in DS9, but for what he felt were all the wrong reasons.
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Vote: ozle if I wasn't on him already.
I haven't seen ozle defend himself like this, but this feels like a classic scum brig frustrated for getting caught for wrong reasons defense. He isn't explaining why he is town, he is escaping why the reasons to vote for him are in his opinion inadequate.
I had the same thought. I call it the Mcmc Syndrome. He was scum and caught in DS9, but for what he felt were all the wrong reasons.
Haha, all of the frustrations that game. At least I was caught for the wrong reasons by another scum, so I can say congratulations to yuma(after yelling obscenities through my computer screen)
But I do agree its a scummy frustration.
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On the other hand, Cuzz was accused of the same thing that game.
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I do not think that frustration is scummy. Mafia is a frustrating game.
as Jimmmmm said, we mislynched cuzz partially because he was frustrated. scum!mcmc in DS9 was frustrated, but in the newbie game as scum he didn't get frustrated at all. Town or scum can be frustrated.
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Jimm (1) -- mail-mi
sudgy (4) -- Insomniac, Jimm, Jorbles, lio
mail-mi (1) -- raerae
Ozle (5) -- Eevee, yuma, ashersky, sudgy, mcmc (L-3)
ashersky (1) -- Ozle
Not Voting (2) -- Archetype, Lekkit
unofficial vote count. People on only wagons with only one person need to move... mail-mi, raerae, ozle.
And if we lose this game. A huge chunk of the blame is going to fall on archetype and lekkit (if they are town, if they are scum they are going to get lynched eventually because they are lurking sooo bad!!!). If we want to win, we need all of town to contribute.
I have the suspicion that we are going to get ozle to the l-1, l-2 stage and stall once again because everyone else will be adamantly agains the lynch or won't be participating so their vote will be moot.
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Vote Count 2.11
Jimm (1) -- mail-mi
sudgy (4) -- Insomniac, Jimm, Jorbles, liopoil
mail-mi (1) -- raerae
Ozle (5) -- Eevee, yuma, ashersky, sudgy, mcmcsalot {L-3}
ashersky (1) -- Ozle
Not Voting (2) -- Archetype, Lekkit
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. The game ends on April 29th at 7:00 PM. There are 25 days left.
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I think the last person voting for Ozle should be mcmc, not the man himself.
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I think the last person voting for Ozle should be mcmc, not the man himself.
Yep. Fixed.
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It is awfully hard to lynch anyone, let alone scum when two people don't vote or post anything.
I argued heavily against Cuzz's lynch (I was town with no extra information) in DS9. To me that was obvious town frustration and I was co-frustrated at everyone for not seeing it. I guess the lynch was mostly scum-driven in the end.
This is different. I'm not saying Ozle couldn't be town, but there is nothing towny about his reasons for being frustrated. I'm happy with this lynch and just hoping it'll go through.
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Hmm yes, Arch has offered two posts, both about doing a re-read.
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I prodded Archetype.
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screw this:
vote: archetype LALL. If you think ozle has a good defense there is no way you think arch has one. PS I am totally willing to vote ozle if we get enough, but at least with voting arch, we can hopefully include ozle on the wagon and have one more person to push a lynch through.
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Vote: Archetype. Let's hear about that re-read.
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and I am completely willing to lynch him w/o hearing from him first if anyone has that concern. two lurkers in a row in sparky and arch... maybe it is because they both think the game is lost now that they are already down one man.
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and I am completely willing to lynch him w/o hearing from him first if anyone has that concern. two lurkers in a row in sparky and arch... maybe it is because they both think the game is lost now that they are already down one man.
I'm not sure I buy that argument though. With 3 scum still to hunt down, and no opposing scum to take each other out, Town still has a long way to go to win this game. All it takes is 1.
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Yeah Vote: Archetype what about that reread?
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Hmm just realised Arch replaced sparky. Still, he's had 5 days.
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I forgot that. Vote: archetype is fine for me then, I've been suspicious of sparky for a long time. I think I'd prefer Ozle though, not sure why we are giving up in that already.
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I forgot that. Vote: archetype is fine for me then, I've been suspicious of sparky for a long time. I think I'd prefer Ozle though, not sure why we are giving up in that already.
I think I'll put him as a good lynch for tomorrow, I'll do a reread of him and the cases on him.
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I forgot that. Vote: archetype is fine for me then, I've been suspicious of sparky for a long time. I think I'd prefer Ozle though, not sure why we are giving up in that already.
I think I'll put him as a good lynch for tomorrow, I'll do a reread of him and the cases on him.
Or today, if archetype doesn't happen.
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This game is huge to reread, I might take awhile to get into it if I was replacing in. I missed a weekend of posts and I felt overwhelmed rereading. I sympathize with Lekkit and Archetype in this situation. That said if we don't have any other viable lynches I would be willing to vote for them just to move the game along. I don't like the case on Ozle so I wouldn't lynch him.
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This game is huge to reread, I might take awhile to get into it if I was replacing in. I missed a weekend of posts and I felt overwhelmed rereading. I sympathize with Lekkit and Archetype in this situation. That said if we don't have any other viable lynches I would be willing to vote for them just to move the game along. I don't like the case on Ozle so I wouldn't lynch him.
I do understand that. I do. But as I have said before to Jimmmm in this game I think this line of thought is a fallacy and one I have falled into before. A reread doesn't need to take hours and hours. Really, just skimming for ~ 20 minutes and getting the main arguments should be enough, especially when there are people like mcmc and ash and others doing the grunt work and putting together solid cases. All it takes is to read those few posts, see what other people are saying about it and then go from there and give an opinion and especially at this stage a vote. That is if they are town. But I think often mafia uses RL to lurk behind. I certainly have done that. I know others have and use it as an excuse to do nothing in the game so they aren't accountable, but repeatedly show up and say, "I am here, but haven't reread yet, so I have nothing to offer."
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This game is huge to reread, I might take awhile to get into it if I was replacing in. I missed a weekend of posts and I felt overwhelmed rereading. I sympathize with Lekkit and Archetype in this situation. That said if we don't have any other viable lynches I would be willing to vote for them just to move the game along. I don't like the case on Ozle so I wouldn't lynch him.
I do understand that. I do. But as I have said before to Jimmmm in this game I think this line of thought is a fallacy and one I have falled into before. A reread doesn't need to take hours and hours. Really, just skimming for ~ 20 minutes and getting the main arguments should be enough, especially when there are people like mcmc and ash and others doing the grunt work and putting together solid cases. All it takes is to read those few posts, see what other people are saying about it and then go from there and give an opinion and especially at this stage a vote. That is if they are town. But I think often mafia uses RL to lurk behind. I certainly have done that. I know others have and use it as an excuse to do nothing in the game so they aren't accountable, but repeatedly show up and say, "I am here, but haven't reread yet, so I have nothing to offer."
And the fact that hes had 5 days.
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Vote: Archetype. I still want to lynch Ozle, but Archetype needs to post.
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wow, five votes in 2 1/2 hours...
I'd prefer a lekkit LALL, because he's been in the game longer and had a really scummy vote on kooshie, but then again, sparky was off wagon... He's a better lynch than ozle I think though, so I'll Vote: Archetype
L-2 now.
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Guys, just posted in VLA, am still reading here, but will be in short posts from mobile. Its payday at most peoples work and my work is linked to that payday so our busiest time, and then its my birthday this weekend (well actually tuesday, but who celebrates on a tuesday...)
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Okay, to recap, because Ozle doesn't like the votes on him, and thinks the case sucks, here is my case (again), taking things only from my own posts. These are things that I think seem scummy. These are actual things Ozle did, not feelings I have or gut reads.
1. Ozle attacked Liopoil on D1, and I think Liopoil is town. He did this whilst defending Kooshie.
2. Ozle tried to deflect the attention from the Kooshie case to Eevee, whilst defending Kooshie. This happened early enough in D1 that it wasn't a scum desperation move, it was a scum calculated move.
3. Ozle's "intent to hammer" post near the end of the day, with little reasoning. <Note: I accept the scum points I get for the "agree with ozle's reasons" post right after it.>
4. Ozle asked for everyone's spawning points on D2 (well, asked if anyone spawned in a hallway, and got some "no" responses before that got shut down).
5. Ozle continuously asked me to give my reasons for finding Jimmmmm towny, even though I had given them multiple times.
6. Ozle used the "artificially inflating his post count" argument in his case against me.
I like an Ozle lynch for the case yuma outlined above but also for his (Ozle's) defense of the cases against him that have sounded a lot like, "You caught me but not for the right reason!"
I can't participate in a lurker lynch, guys. It just isn't logical. I still like a mail-mi lynch but did not realize he was v/la so will give him some slack to provide some content.
Vote: Ozle
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And can we get a real-live vote count, please?
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Okay, to recap, because Ozle doesn't like the votes on him, and thinks the case sucks, here is my case (again), taking things only from my own posts. These are things that I think seem scummy. These are actual things Ozle did, not feelings I have or gut reads.
1. Ozle attacked Liopoil on D1, and I think Liopoil is town. He did this whilst defending Kooshie.
2. Ozle tried to deflect the attention from the Kooshie case to Eevee, whilst defending Kooshie. This happened early enough in D1 that it wasn't a scum desperation move, it was a scum calculated move.
3. Ozle's "intent to hammer" post near the end of the day, with little reasoning. <Note: I accept the scum points I get for the "agree with ozle's reasons" post right after it.>
4. Ozle asked for everyone's spawning points on D2 (well, asked if anyone spawned in a hallway, and got some "no" responses before that got shut down).
5. Ozle continuously asked me to give my reasons for finding Jimmmmm towny, even though I had given them multiple times.
6. Ozle used the "artificially inflating his post count" argument in his case against me.
I like an Ozle lynch for the case yuma outlined above but also for his (Ozle's) defense of the cases against him that have sounded a lot like, "You caught me but not for the right reason!"
I can't participate in a lurker lynch, guys. It just isn't logical. I still like a mail-mi lynch but did not realize he was v/la so will give him some slack to provide some content.
Vote: Ozle
I won't be switching, either.
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And can we get a real-live vote count, please?
You had one 20 posts ago!
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And can we get a real-live vote count, please?
You had one 20 posts ago!
7 votes ago...
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Vote Count 2.12
sudgy (2) -- Insomniac, Jorbles
Ozle (3) -- ashersky, mcmcsalot, raerae
ashersky (1) -- Ozle
Archetype (6) -- yuma, Jimm, mail-mi, Eevee, sudgy, liopoil {L-2}
Not Voting (2) -- Archetype, Lekkit
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. The game ends on April 29th at 7:00 PM. There are 25 days left.
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I lynch arch, I want this day to be over. But I seriously worried that the Jimm lynch was derailed by scum, ozzle lynch got traction for real scummy behavior but was slow because of lurkers, but now were quick to lynch arch for lurking. I had a much townie read on sparky then I did on Jimm.
Jimm and eevee are the two who weren't on Jimm wagon but are on arch, I don't want to lynch eevee today, and Jimm sorta has a good reason for not being on the Jimm wagon. I guess that makes me more comfortable with the arch lynch. Liopoil continues to look scummy to me but I think that means he's town. We have very different styles, in ds9 I was sure he was scum, in newbie mafia I disagreed with a lot of his play choices(though he did great in both those games)
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Vote Count 2.12
sudgy (2) -- Insomniac, Jorbles
Ozle (3) -- ashersky, mcmcsalot, raerae
ashersky (1) -- Ozle
Archetype (6) -- yuma, Jimm, mail-mi, Eevee, sudgy, liopoil {L-2}
Not Voting (2) -- Archetype, Lekkit
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. The game ends on April 29th at 7:00 PM. There are 25 days left.
raerae is on Ozle now.
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Vote Count 2.12
sudgy (2) -- Insomniac, Jorbles
Ozle (3) -- ashersky, mcmcsalot, raerae
ashersky (1) -- Ozle
Archetype (6) -- yuma, Jimm, mail-mi, Eevee, sudgy, liopoil {L-2}
Not Voting (2) -- Archetype, Lekkit
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. The game ends on April 29th at 7:00 PM. There are 25 days left.
raerae is on Ozle now.
Nevermind, I read that backwards.
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I lynch arch, I want this day to be over. But I seriously worried that the Jimm lynch was derailed by scum, ozzle lynch got traction for real scummy behavior but was slow because of lurkers, but now were quick to lynch arch for lurking. I had a much townie read on sparky then I did on Jimm.
Jimm and eevee are the two who weren't on Jimm wagon but are on arch, I don't want to lynch eevee today, and Jimm sorta has a good reason for not being on the Jimm wagon. I guess that makes me more comfortable with the arch lynch. Liopoil continues to look scummy to me but I think that means he's town. We have very different styles, in ds9 I was sure he was scum, in newbie mafia I disagreed with a lot of his play choices(though he did great in both those games)
I think yuma, Eevee, and at least one other said they'd switch back to Ozle if needed.
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Holy crap, L-2. Sheesh.
Yeah, I'm here. Still on page 20 of the reread. I promise I'll have it done by tomorrow.
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So Jimm, liopoil, mail-mi, you weren't on ozzle wagon and would be enough to lynch him, how do you feel about that. I just thought I disappeared without getting everyone's opinion
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I lynch arch, I want this day to be over. But I seriously worried that the Jimm lynch was derailed by scum, ozzle lynch got traction for real scummy behavior but was slow because of lurkers, but now were quick to lynch arch for lurking. I had a much townie read on sparky then I did on Jimm.
Jimm and eevee are the two who weren't on Jimm wagon but are on arch, I don't want to lynch eevee today, and Jimm sorta has a good reason for not being on the Jimm wagon. I guess that makes me more comfortable with the arch lynch. Liopoil continues to look scummy to me but I think that means he's town. We have very different styles, in ds9 I was sure he was scum, in newbie mafia I disagreed with a lot of his play choices(though he did great in both those games)
I agree with all of this. I really think Jimmmm is the scummiest player we have. I don't remember thinking sparky was particularly scummy, but I'd lynch him/Arch as a policy lynch if we can't get any other agreement. Before we do that though, can we not get behind a Jimmmm lynch. Vote: Jimmmmm
PPE: Oh good Arch is here.
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Holy crap, L-2. Sheesh.
Yeah, I'm here. Still on page 20 of the reread. I promise I'll have it done by tomorrow.
I'd say skim at this point. Folks are out for your blood.
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Did you miss my week of trying to get Jimm lynched...it didn't work. We can get him to l-1 but eevee, raerae, ash, insom, arch won't vote for him. Well arch hasn't said
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Did you miss my week of trying to get Jimm lynched...it didn't work. We can get him to l-1 but eevee, raerae, ash, insom, arch won't vote for him. Well arch hasn't said
Well I missed part of it. Sometimes people change their minds though?
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I'm the last person that will vote for Ozle if needed.
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alright, going to start skimming everything to save some time.
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So here's what I've got so far. It's not super in-depth stuff or anything, but it's better than nothing.
DO NOT MAPCLAIM! Seriously, don't. Scum knows the entirety of the bank and will be able to pinpoint your location and Pillage you. Just don't do it. It'll give much more information to Scum than to Town.
Pretty big townreads on Ozle, raerae, and ashersky.
Ozle: Taking the game seriously by providing thoughtful critiques and evidence instead of just looking for the easy lynch. He's responded well to attacks on him and shares my same opinions about mapclaiming.
raerae: Drove that Kooshie lynch all the way. I'd be very surprised if she was scum, but she's a fairly advanced player and knows a good bussing opportunity when she sees one.
ashersky: Not quite sure why, but I'm getting some towny vibes here. The whole "You did X! That's a Y-tell" was sort of annoying, but gives off a sort of towny read, in a way. He's also been fairly openminded about lynches and just like Ozle isn't always gunning for the easy lynch.
People I want to lynch:
Jorbles, Jimmmmm, or mail-mi
Jorbles: People have tried getting some wagons going on him, but they just won't start up. Could it be because he's scum? I'm not sure, but he's said a few things that don't really match my thinking on things. I want to see if a wagon could really form on him, or if scum doesn't want to afford another dead scumbuddy.
Jimmmmm: Sort of the same reason as Jorbles, except opposite. He's reached L-1 several times, but people keep drawing attention away from his lynch. He also pushed the mapclaiming-twice, something that I strongly feel shouldn't happen, and have said some pretty generally scummy things. He also got pretty angry about the wagon that was forming on him. And anger usually means scum.
mail-mi: Mainly because of that really terrible townplay he made (or was it brilliant scum play...?). I'd rather have someone just vig him instead of wasting our lynch on him, but man. Scum's bound to know where he is now and he would be the perfect target for a Pillage. And if Scum can get it instead, then it's going to be extremely difficult for any of us to get into those more powerful rooms.
I'm also considering no lynching. This is mainly because I want to try out this whole map exploration thing :P
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Jimmmmm: Sort of the same reason as Jorbles, except opposite. He's reached L-1 several times, but people keep drawing attention away from his lynch. He also pushed the mapclaiming-twice, something that I strongly feel shouldn't happen, and have said some pretty generally scummy things. He also got pretty angry about the wagon that was forming on him. And anger usually means scum.
Gosh I sound scummy. Please back this up with quotes.
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Jimmmmm: Sort of the same reason as Jorbles, except opposite. He's reached L-1 several times, but people keep drawing attention away from his lynch. He also pushed the mapclaiming-twice, something that I strongly feel shouldn't happen, and have said some pretty generally scummy things. He also got pretty angry about the wagon that was forming on him. And anger usually means scum.
Gosh I sound scummy. Please back this up with quotes.
Read my case on you jimm, thats what hes talking about. I can bring it up too date as you may be lynched now. Arch can hammer you now if we all go back.
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some early vote analysis:
Today people have voted for..... (number in front is the votes in order that they occurred, votes in ( ) are the number of votes on that person including that vote.
Jimm: 37 - sudgy (2), 47 - archetype (2)
raerae: 27 - mail-mi (1), 52 - Ozle (3)
yuma: 15 - mail-mi (1), 23 - jimm (6), 30 - ash (1), 31 - jimmm (6), 35 - ash (2), 38 - Ozle (2), 46 - archetype (1)
ashersky: 5 - eevee (1), 7 - Insom (4), 11- mcmc (1), 21 - jorbles (1), 24 - yuma (1), 26 - Ozle (1), 33 - ash (1), 39 - Ozle (3)
Insomniac: 8 - sudgy (1)
Eevee: 9 - sparky (1), 27 - Ozle (2), 29 - mail-mi (2), 32 - ozle (2), 49 - archetype (4)
Jorbles: 1 - insomniac (1), 6 - Jimm (2), 19 - Insomniac (1), 20 - Jimmm (6), 41 - sudgy (3), 53 - Jimmmm (1)
liopoil: 10 - Jimm (3), 34 - mail-mi (2), 40 - Lekkit (1), 42 - sudgy (4), 51 - archetype (6)
archetype
mcmcsalot: 13 - Jimmm (5), 45 - Ozle (5)
sudgy: 2 - insomniac (2), 14 - Jimmm (6), 25 - yuma (2), 28 - Jimm (6), 43 - Ozle (4), 50 - archetype (5)
Lekkit
Ozle: 3 - Jimmmm (1), 36 - ash (3)
mail-mi: 4 - Insomniac (3), 12 - Jimmm (4), 16 - liopoil (1), 17 - sparky (1), 18 - Jimmm (6), 22 - insomniac (1), 24 - Jimmmm (7), 48 - archetype (3)
So obvious stuff from this... first no votes from Lekkit or arch/sparky. That is bad. Also bad is Insomniac only voting once.
Surprising is how few times both ozle and mcmc have voted (as well as jimmm and raerae). I think some scum is very likely to be in that grouping of four, maybe 2, at least 1. People who I think are townier based off their voting: mail-mi, ash and jorbles because they are really trying, probing and being towny with their votes, except for ash's self vote--but I basically asked him to do that.
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vote: Jimm just did a reread, omg he super scummy.
He makes a few posts about map claim and backs down when he realizes what pillage does.
Asks about where xieron, pat, insom are.
Pushes the fact that people who go out of their way to seem townie are scummy. Really slight way of casting mass suspicion on targets that have nothing to do with actually being scummy.
Mentions doing something for the sake of town cred is scummy which I agree about but honestly doesn't do anything but gain him town cred...
Vote's raerae for lurking as a joke in post #347. He himself had not posted for 114 posts, and goes on to not post for 50 posts(has one post in between saying he is behind and will catch up)
Comes back and starts talking about the matter at hand no lynching, which again is a null factor.
Post about everyone finding yuma town because we read him scummy.
*** disappears for 160 posts***
talks about the matter at hand again(its a new day) that xieron was a weird lynch.
*** disappears for 103 posts***
apologizes for lurking, and says him being newbie scum is a bad argument because he pointed out xieron was a wierd kill. Everyone knew it was a wierd kill, he just said it first and then used that to defend himself later, scummy to me.
He still has not done any scum hunting or adding to the conversation, nor done a reread about anything. When he brings up a new topic, should the person we lynch mapclaim? second time he has brought up claiming.
Has done nothing but said he will reread and address things since then.
If he isn't scum I am going to be extremely sad.
I hve felt like I have lurked too much and I have posted tons more content. Also my period of absence was 558-697, 139 posts which is less than one of jimms absences. He has been saying he will start posting for over half the game...
This is my origional thing I guess I didn't quote either, I used ctrl f to go through all his posts, theres not that many so it doesnt take long.
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sorry, above it should be lio, not mail-mi for looking townier from their votes.
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Jimmmmm: Sort of the same reason as Jorbles, except opposite. He's reached L-1 several times, but people keep drawing attention away from his lynch. He also pushed the mapclaiming-twice, something that I strongly feel shouldn't happen, and have said some pretty generally scummy things. He also got pretty angry about the wagon that was forming on him. And anger usually means scum.
Gosh I sound scummy. Please back this up with quotes.
Read my case on you jimm, thats what hes talking about. I can bring it up too date as you may be lynched now. Arch can hammer you now if we all go back.
Isn't this the part where we let the person who was asked the question answer?
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vote: ozle
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vote: Jimm just did a reread, omg he super scummy.
He makes a few posts about map claim and backs down when he realizes what pillage does.
Asks about where xieron, pat, insom are.
Pushes the fact that people who go out of their way to seem townie are scummy. Really slight way of casting mass suspicion on targets that have nothing to do with actually being scummy.
Mentions doing something for the sake of town cred is scummy which I agree about but honestly doesn't do anything but gain him town cred...
Vote's raerae for lurking as a joke in post #347. He himself had not posted for 114 posts, and goes on to not post for 50 posts(has one post in between saying he is behind and will catch up)
Comes back and starts talking about the matter at hand no lynching, which again is a null factor.
Post about everyone finding yuma town because we read him scummy.
*** disappears for 160 posts***
talks about the matter at hand again(its a new day) that xieron was a weird lynch.
*** disappears for 103 posts***
apologizes for lurking, and says him being newbie scum is a bad argument because he pointed out xieron was a wierd kill. Everyone knew it was a wierd kill, he just said it first and then used that to defend himself later, scummy to me.
He still has not done any scum hunting or adding to the conversation, nor done a reread about anything. When he brings up a new topic, should the person we lynch mapclaim? second time he has brought up claiming.
Has done nothing but said he will reread and address things since then.
If he isn't scum I am going to be extremely sad.
I hve felt like I have lurked too much and I have posted tons more content. Also my period of absence was 558-697, 139 posts which is less than one of jimms absences. He has been saying he will start posting for over half the game...
This.
And this:
Jimm: Contributing, giving opinions, no reads, really, but otherwise very towny.
I'm not totally sold on Jimmmmm being scum, I haven't really deeply analyzed interactions between Kooshie and people, and everyone else amongst themselves.
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vote: Jimm just did a reread, omg he super scummy.
He makes a few posts about map claim and backs down when he realizes what pillage does.
Asks about where xieron, pat, insom are.
Pushes the fact that people who go out of their way to seem townie are scummy. Really slight way of casting mass suspicion on targets that have nothing to do with actually being scummy.
Mentions doing something for the sake of town cred is scummy which I agree about but honestly doesn't do anything but gain him town cred...
Vote's raerae for lurking as a joke in post #347. He himself had not posted for 114 posts, and goes on to not post for 50 posts(has one post in between saying he is behind and will catch up)
Comes back and starts talking about the matter at hand no lynching, which again is a null factor.
Post about everyone finding yuma town because we read him scummy.
*** disappears for 160 posts***
talks about the matter at hand again(its a new day) that xieron was a weird lynch.
*** disappears for 103 posts***
apologizes for lurking, and says him being newbie scum is a bad argument because he pointed out xieron was a wierd kill. Everyone knew it was a wierd kill, he just said it first and then used that to defend himself later, scummy to me.
He still has not done any scum hunting or adding to the conversation, nor done a reread about anything. When he brings up a new topic, should the person we lynch mapclaim? second time he has brought up claiming.
Has done nothing but said he will reread and address things since then.
If he isn't scum I am going to be extremely sad.
I hve felt like I have lurked too much and I have posted tons more content. Also my period of absence was 558-697, 139 posts which is less than one of jimms absences. He has been saying he will start posting for over half the game...
This.
And this:
Jimm: Contributing, giving opinions, no reads, really, but otherwise very towny.
I'm not totally sold on Jimmmmm being scum, I haven't really deeply analyzed interactions between Kooshie and people, and everyone else amongst themselves.
No, I didn't mean to quote someone else's questionable case on me. You said I've pushed mapclaiming twice. This is false. In actuality I initially said it was "possibly decent" and then changed my mind based on Pillaging. Then I suggested the person who was going to be lynched did it, something that is entirely normal practise, and did it myself because I thought I was going to be lynched. That is different from "pushing mapclaiming".
Please provide a reference to the "pretty generally scummy things" I said, and also me getting "pretty angry".
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No, I didn't mean to quote someone else's questionable case on me. You said I've pushed mapclaiming twice. This is false. In actuality I initially said it was "possibly decent" and then changed my mind based on Pillaging. Then I suggested the person who was going to be lynched did it, something that is entirely normal practise, and did it myself because I thought I was going to be lynched. That is different from "pushing mapclaiming".
Please provide a reference to the "pretty generally scummy things" I said, and also me getting "pretty angry".
General Scumminess:
from mcmcsalot:
"He still has not done any scum hunting or adding to the conversation, nor done a reread about anything."
I don't have any room to speak though. I haven't really contributed too much, but I haven't been in the game that long either.
Pushing Mapclaiming:
Just a bad wording on my part. I just think it's a really bad idea, and you seem to want it to happen. Disagreeing with me doesn't make you scum, but it does to me.
Getting angry:
I reread back and got you mixed up with Insomniac. Again, my mistake. Your avatars just look so similar while skimming!
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Vote: ozle
Archetype, i think you give people way too much town cred for agreeing with you on theory and being vocal about it.
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some early vote analysis:
Today people have voted for..... (number in front is the votes in order that they occurred, votes in ( ) are the number of votes on that person including that vote.
Jorbles: 1 - insomniac (1), 6 - Jimm (2), 19 - Insomniac (1), 20 - Jimmm (6), 41 - sudgy (3), 53 - Jimmmm (1)
sudgy: 2 - insomniac (2), 14 - Jimmm (6), 25 - yuma (2), 28 - Jimm (6), 43 - Ozle (4), 50 - archetype (5)
mail-mi: 4 - Insomniac (3), 12 - Jimmm (4), 16 - liopoil (1), 17 - sparky (1), 18 - Jimmm (6), 22 - insomniac (1), 24 - Jimmmm (7), 48 - archetype (3)
So obvious stuff from this... first no votes from Lekkit or arch/sparky. That is bad. Also bad is Insomniac only voting once.
Surprising is how few times both ozle and mcmc have voted (as well as jimmm and raerae). I think some scum is very likely to be in that grouping of four, maybe 2, at least 1. People who I think are townier based off their voting: mail-mi, ash and jorbles because they are really trying, probing and being towny with their votes, except for ash's self vote--but I basically asked him to do that.
Umm what, why and huh? I just took out a bunch of stuff to make some points. Why in gods name is bouncing your vote between the same two people towny...and sudgy has almost an identical voting patter yet you give him no town cred. This analysis seems whack to me,
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Pushing Mapclaiming:
Just a bad wording on my part. I just think it's a really bad idea, and you seem to want it to happen. Disagreeing with me doesn't make you scum, but it does to me.
Can you specify what you mean by Mapclaiming? If you mean mass-Mapclaiming, then I have never indicated that I want it to happen. Here is what I've actually said:
I think the map-claim idea is possibly decent. Obviously not claiming what items we have available, but perhaps if we each gave a description of what we can see. Anyone have any reasons why this would be a bad idea?
This is a pondering and a question. I then proceed to answer my own question:
Hmm of course if we map-claim it helps scum do their pillaging so maybe not.
It seemed like a decent idea until I realised what pillage did, now I think it's a terrible idea.
I later suggested a different thing:
Should we get the person we lynch to mapclaim? I think it might give Town more information than scum if it's a Townie doing so, especially since the person won't be around any more for scum to Pillage.
If you think this is a bad idea, then we are in disagreement, but I'm happy to listen to your reasoning. When I mapclaimed, I was pretty much resigned to being lynched, and a little frustrated that I didn't feel like I had anything to add. But if you're suggesting that I want everyone to mapclaim, that is totally false.
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So I re-read sparky, and based on #407 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7019.msg210925#msg210925), #467 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7019.msg211738#msg211738), #523 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7019.msg212480#msg212480) and Arch's recent clumsiness, I'm now leaning Town on Arch. Yes, sparky could have bussed, but I think that's less likely, so Unvote.
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So I re-read sparky, and based on #407 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7019.msg210925#msg210925), #467 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7019.msg211738#msg211738), #523 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7019.msg212480#msg212480) and Arch's recent clumsiness, I'm now leaning Town on Arch. Yes, sparky could have bussed, but I think that's less likely, so Unvote.
Really should have your vote on someone though.
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Yeah, you're right. I'm about to head to work, after I get home I'll re-read Ozle and figure out if I support his lynch.
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Arch is contributing now Unvote
I think I'll go back to Vote: Jimmmm
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I'll go back to Vote: Ozle for now, but it is a bit strange that Archetype, after we started pushing for him, suddenly started pushing for things.
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mail-mi, I had a look back to find the reason you're voting for me, and I couldn't find one other than for lurking. So you're taking your vote off the major lurker to put it on the minor lurker who's actually posted more than you?
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Vote Count 2.13
sudgy (1) -- Insomniac
Ozle (6) -- ashersky, mcmcsalot, raerae, yuma, Eevee, sudgy {L-2}
ashersky (1) -- Ozle
Archetype (1) -- liopoil
Jimm (2) -- Jorbles, mail-mi
Not Voting (3) -- Archetype, Lekkit, Jimm
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. The game ends on April 29th at 7:00 PM. There are 24 days left.
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A reread doesn't need to take hours and hours. Really, just skimming for ~ 20 minutes and getting the main arguments should be enough, especially when there are people like mcmc and ash and others doing the grunt work and putting together solid cases. All it takes is to read those few posts, see what other people are saying about it and then go from there and give an opinion and especially at this stage a vote. That is if they are town. But I think often mafia uses RL to lurk behind. I certainly have done that. I know others have and use it as an excuse to do nothing in the game so they aren't accountable, but repeatedly show up and say, "I am here, but haven't reread yet, so I have nothing to offer."
This is really true. Except it isn't really. If you want someone to back up someone else's reads, then only reading others cases will probably be enough. But not rereading everything doesn't really suffice if you want the rereading person's reads.
I have read everything up to this point, but I haven't really had the time to post much, though.
I'd prefer a lekkit LALL, because he's been in the game longer and had a really scummy vote on kooshie, but then again, sparky was off wagon...
This is not the first time you've said this. Yet I have no idea what was scummy about my vote. Care to elaborate?
Really should have your vote on someone though.
Just saying I don't agree with this. I don't think voting just because you should is good. I know it's easier to fake intent to vote, but voting for someone at all points doesn't make a townie, in my book.
Arch is contributing now Unvote
I think I'll go back to Vote: Jimmmm
This is probably the worst vote I've seen all game. Jimmm seems to have noticed it too.
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Time for a popsquiz.
Want to lynch:
mail-mi.
Willing to lynch:
ashersky, sudgy, probably everyone else.
Reluctant to lynch:
Jimmm (would be informative, but I'm strongly leaning town here)
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Pushing Mapclaiming:
Just a bad wording on my part. I just think it's a really bad idea, and you seem to want it to happen. Disagreeing with me doesn't make you scum, but it does to me.
Can you specify what you mean by Mapclaiming? If you mean mass-Mapclaiming, then I have never indicated that I want it to happen. Here is what I've actually said:
I think the map-claim idea is possibly decent. Obviously not claiming what items we have available, but perhaps if we each gave a description of what we can see. Anyone have any reasons why this would be a bad idea?
This is a pondering and a question. I then proceed to answer my own question:
Hmm of course if we map-claim it helps scum do their pillaging so maybe not.
It seemed like a decent idea until I realised what pillage did, now I think it's a terrible idea.
I later suggested a different thing:
Should we get the person we lynch to mapclaim? I think it might give Town more information than scum if it's a Townie doing so, especially since the person won't be around any more for scum to Pillage.
If you think this is a bad idea, then we are in disagreement, but I'm happy to listen to your reasoning. When I mapclaimed, I was pretty much resigned to being lynched, and a little frustrated that I didn't feel like I had anything to add. But if you're suggesting that I want everyone to mapclaim, that is totally false.
No, I don't think you're trying to force everyone to map claim or anything, I just don't think it's a good idea and you just seem to be the prime suspect for talking about it.
In all honesty, Jimmmmm, I don't think I want to see you lynched today. You started out scummy earlier this day, but you've come around. I think that the Kooshie townread on you was suspicious and you bringing up map claiming is scummy, but that doesn't mean you're scum. Scum try to frame Town for things all the time.
I think there's been enough pressure on you today, and you did map claim which means your most likely going to be in a bad position tommorow with scum knowing where you are, so I think I'd rather revisit a Jimmmmm lynch on a later date, if ever.
Mail-mi is a wagon I could get behind. Very, very sheepy. He did that when he was Town in that one game. I don't know if that's just his personality or not. The information he claimed was a pretty brutal blow to Town, and he hasn't really offered any analysis on players or anything as far as I can tell. So, some scumtraits.
In my eyes, Ozle, Jimmmmm, and mail-mi lunches are the ones discussed the most. I'd get behind the mail-mi first and foremost, Jimmmmm lynch if it really needs that extra vote, and not Ozle at all. Pretty certain this guy is Town. But maybe Eevee's right: I give too much towncred for such minuscule things.
Vote: mail-mi
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Want to lynch: Ozle
Willing: Jorbles, Lekkit, mail-mi
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Yea I can get behind the ozzle lynch. Still need to look back at him and Yuma. I'm now feeling it hard to ramp myself up in this game again. I burned out on my Jimm insom power push.
Can get behind it, but not done any sort of re-read on it.
Nice.
Alright, I agree, and it seems Ozle is the most likely (and more scummy than some of them). Vote: Ozle.
Vote based on nothing.
vote: Ozzie
Vote based on nothing.
Okay, to recap, because Ozle doesn't like the votes on him, and thinks the case sucks, here is my case (again), taking things only from my own posts. These are things that I think seem scummy. These are actual things Ozle did, not feelings I have or gut reads.
1. Ozle attacked Liopoil on D1, and I think Liopoil is town. He did this whilst defending Kooshie.
2. Ozle tried to deflect the attention from the Kooshie case to Eevee, whilst defending Kooshie. This happened early enough in D1 that it wasn't a scum desperation move, it was a scum calculated move.
3. Ozle's "intent to hammer" post near the end of the day, with little reasoning. <Note: I accept the scum points I get for the "agree with ozle's reasons" post right after it.>
4. Ozle asked for everyone's spawning points on D2 (well, asked if anyone spawned in a hallway, and got some "no" responses before that got shut down).
5. Ozle continuously asked me to give my reasons for finding Jimmmmm towny, even though I had given them multiple times.
6. Ozle used the "artificially inflating his post count" argument in his case against me.
Finally.
1. Again, I didnt defend Kooshie. SHOW ME A POST WHERE I DEFENDED KOOSHIE. I repeatedly said it wasnt a great case, and that it was Day 1. Something which is a FACT.
2. Wait, so early on in the day I was giving reads on other people. WOW. SORRY FOR ACTIVELY TRYING TO SCUM HUNT. Especially when you have agreed with me Eevee looked scummy!
3. LITTLE REASONING? I have explained time and time and time again my reasoning. There was precisely ONE case and Wagon built on Day1, and it wason Kooshie, we could have wasted important days doing nothing or we could have done with it.
4. Asking if anyone spawned in a hallway, is NOT the same as asking where everyone started, please dont make stuff up. And as before, I have a VERY good reason for that that could help me prove town at a later date.
5. What were your reasons? Because I dont remember any good reasons that you found Jimmmm 100% definite town. Not understanding your reasons is now scummy? Wow
6. You were artificially increasing your post count. This is blatantly obvious. And even helped with info from you, that you usuallypost a lot in games. Usually you post a lot that has actual content in, in this game you startedposting two word replies to a load of posts. Thats artificially inflating post count Day 1. Again. Fact. I wasn't the first person to notice that and its easy to see if someone goes back on day 1, and easy to see you stopping it when someone points out what you are doing.
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Vote: ozle if I wasn't on him already.
I haven't seen ozle defend himself like this, but this feels like a classic scum brig frustrated for getting caught for wrong reasons defense. He isn't explaining why he is town, he is escaping why the reasons to vote for him are in his opinion inadequate.
Sorry for defending myself?
What should I do, roll over and let myself be killed and deprive Town of another member?
Would you prefer me to claim VT and self vote like Ashersky done? Because I wont.
EVERYTIME someone votes for me with reasons I am replying, there have not been many, most of the votes are spurious and without reasons.
Show me a post where I have not responded to an accusation of scumminess with reasons and I will respond to it now.
"I haven't explained why I am town'
Has anybody?
I have stopped the crazy map claiming that went on, I have given reads (which i get called scummy for doing), I have tried to scum hunt, I have tried to prevent the lynch of a known townie vigourously (me), what else could I be doing?
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Vote: ozle if I wasn't on him already.
I haven't seen ozle defend himself like this, but this feels like a classic scum brig frustrated for getting caught for wrong reasons defense. He isn't explaining why he is town, he is escaping why the reasons to vote for him are in his opinion inadequate.
I had the same thought. I call it the Mcmc Syndrome. He was scum and caught in DS9, but for what he felt were all the wrong reasons.
I am not MCMC.
Again, we go back to people and thier superb meta-reads' on people.
I am not caught scum for wrong reasons.
A)I am not scum
B) The reasons are weak. So Weak.
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I do not think that frustration is scummy. Mafia is a frustrating game.
as Jimmmmm said, we mislynched cuzz partially because he was frustrated. scum!mcmc in DS9 was frustrated, but in the newbie game as scum he didn't get frustrated at all. Town or scum can be frustrated.
Further proof that these 'reads based on previous games are bullshit'
I refuse to allow one of the reasons to lynch me is because somebody else in one game was acting frustrated like I am.
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It is awfully hard to lynch anyone, let alone scum when two people don't vote or post anything.
I argued heavily against Cuzz's lynch (I was town with no extra information) in DS9. To me that was obvious town frustration and I was co-frustrated at everyone for not seeing it. I guess the lynch was mostly scum-driven in the end.
This is different. I'm not saying Ozle couldn't be town, but there is nothing towny about his reasons for being frustrated. I'm happy with this lynch and just hoping it'll go through.
Pretty sure I have covered this, but I have responded to every 'case' presented on me I feel perfectly well.
The only thing I have done that could even be considered slightly scummy is the stating intent to vote Kooshie as Hammer, and I have explained my reasons for doing that, and the person who is leading the votes against me actually AGREED with those reasons
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Vote: Archetype. I still want to lynch Ozle, but Archetype needs to post.
Again, no reasons.
Have you ever given reads and reasons for votes?
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I like an Ozle lynch for the case yuma outlined above but also for his (Ozle's) defense of the cases against him that have sounded a lot like, "You caught me but not for the right reason!"
I can't participate in a lurker lynch, guys. It just isn't logical. I still like a mail-mi lynch but did not realize he was v/la so will give him some slack to provide some content.
Vote: Ozle
First off, thats Ash's case not Yumas, Yumas is completely different.
Secondly, have refuted this one now, plus the frustration bit you have added on
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ozzle lynch got traction for real scummy behavior but was slow because of lurkers, but now
I got real traction for scummy behaviour, yet again no explanation of this 'scummy behaviour'
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I'm the last person that will vote for Ozle if needed.
Again, never given reasons.
Dont just sheep, do your own investigations.
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Surprising is how few times both ozle and mcmc have voted (as well as jimmm and raerae).
Why?
I have stated which people I have been willing to vote for all of this day, i'd happily vote for any of 4/5 people.
However, I am not just going to throw random votes about just to make some pointless numbers look good.
I think the people who are voting willy-nilly, basically for anybody who has a lynch going are more suspicious.
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I'll go back to Vote: Ozle for now, but it is a bit strange that Archetype, after we started pushing for him, suddenly started pushing for things.
Onemore switch without reasons.
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Vote: Archetype. I still want to lynch Ozle, but Archetype needs to post.
Again, no reasons.
Have you ever given reads and reasons for votes?
I agree that non-RVS votes should come with reasons, but I think prompting someone to post is a legitimate reason.
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Sorry for the multiple posts, I have little PC time at the moment so wanted to get it all in.
In summary:
Basically there is ONE legitimate thing that makes me look scummy
1. I switched to the Kooshie Wagon late.
So, hammering a scum, that can be dodgy, sure I accepted that at the time I knew what it would look like, but I accepted that because I knew we were not going to do another lynch that day, and id rather save the valuable bankable days for future dates.
I explained this at the time, Ashersky thought it was a good idea.
Now to the points I refuse to accept:
1. Ashersky says I defended Kooshie.
I didnt, read the posts again, I was pointing out it was a weak case. And it WAS a weak case.Can anybody still remember what the case was, except some vague knowledge liopoil had?
2. Ashersky says I tried to deflect the lynch early onto someone else.
Ridiculous. If this is true indicator of scumminess, then when there is a lynch happening people should only vote for the people on that lynch and not look atother people and give reads. How is NOBODY else finding this the most stupid of accusations?
Its Asherskys repeated main point for pushing for my lynch and my main cause of frustration. Although I notice no one else is saying it.
So, if there is a lynch happening, according to Ashersky, Town should just jump on the wagon or shut up, they should on no account give thier reads on other people because thats scummy.
3. I am getting frustrated and thats scummy
Welcome to the world of 'you do not know me'
Great, so otherpeople who were scum have acted frustrated when accused before. Whoop-de-bloody-doo. I am not those other people. And even those other people listed didnt do it in all of thier games.
I am frustrated, because it looks
like you are going to lynch a townie for no good reasons based on peoples belief in thier own 'brilliant reads' rather than looking at whats happening, and then other people are just sheeping.
Eevee has stated he has not seen this in me before, well to that Eevee i say go and look for a normal game where I am town and getting lynched incorrectly based on incorrect reasons.....the reasons you have not seen me act like this before is because it has not happened before. I have never been town in a normal game
I seriously don't know what more I can do for you guys, I have tried to scum hunt, I have tried to stop people giving scum information, I have gvien reads, I have answered every post on me with a response (Yuma says he may not agree with them, but this seemed a throwaway comment rather than directed at a specific comment he doesnt agree with) I have tried so hard and will continue to try hard to prevent you making this mistake.
Most of the accusations on me have been vaguaries and non-specific, I cant do anything about those can I!
How wuold you all respond to generic comments of :Vote :<you> followed by no reasons or 'looks scummy'
You'd be happy to just agree and let it stand if it looks like you were getting lynched?
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Vote: Archetype. I still want to lynch Ozle, but Archetype needs to post.
Again, no reasons.
Have you ever given reads and reasons for votes?
I agree that non-RVS votes should come with reasons, but I think prompting someone to post is a legitimate reason.
This was about his comment 'i still want to lynch Ozle' and also his continued non-reasons rather than the Arch vote.
Sorry, should have made that clear.
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If I have missed any points that people are saying are scummy, let me know and ill pick them back up later tonight....
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Vote: Archetype. I still want to lynch Ozle, but Archetype needs to post.
Again, no reasons.
Have you ever given reads and reasons for votes?
I agree that non-RVS votes should come with reasons, but I think prompting someone to post is a legitimate reason.
This was about his comment 'i still want to lynch Ozle' and also his continued non-reasons rather than the Arch vote.
Sorry, should have made that clear.
Yeah okay, that occurred to me after I posted.
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Seriously guys, ozle is town, and there little to no case on him. I'm SURE that there is scum on his wagon, likely two. I'm going to look at the people on his wagon, find one whose vote on ozle is scummy, and who is scummy otherwise as well, and vote for them. I'm fairly certain there is some scum that's sheeping what they know to be a mislynch on him right now.
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Ozle I am going to respond to just a few things, not everything because I am in a hurry to get to work.
I think that we are having a difference of opinion about what a defense is. In my eyes the below is a "defense"
The case against Kooshie is purely that Kooshie has not contributed much.
Well, thats not a brilliant case, thats a lynch all lurkers case, and there are MUCH better candidates for that. Sure maybe Kooshie has had the ability to participate, but then so have the others.
again not a true defense saying kooshie is the most town ever. But saying that we should't lynch him and lynch someone else. It is an attempt to move the lynch elsewhere.
Lekkit says that Kooshie has not posted any thing of substance, well the same applies to you Lekkit, I dont remember anything of substance you have said this game apart from agree with Lipoli.
You may have said something, but none of it has stuck in my mind.
. especially because at this time, you say you are willing to vote for insomniac, lekkit and lio. But not kooshie. You aren't "defending" per se. But you aren't considering him as a vote while using someone else in his place.
But more important than that, was how quick you were willing to give up on your other "scum-reads" and lynch kooshie once it was apparent that she was going to die. Because she was the lynch that day guaranteed at the time you said you would lynch her. You are right. Day1 cases are weak. So my question is this. If kooshie's case was so weak, but then strong enough initially.... why wasn't he someone you were willing to lynch earlier? This is the crux of my suspicion. You can answer if you want, but honestly at this point I am unlikely to change my vote on you for anyreason except that there is someone else more likely to be lynched that was off-wagon.
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We NEED a soft deadline. I suggest tonight at 12:01 am forum time. A lynch has to happen. If it doesn't, I say we all turn on the players not contributing to getting a lynch.
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Time for a popsquiz.
Want to lynch:
mail-mi.
Willing to lynch:
ashersky, sudgy, probably everyone else.
Reluctant to lynch:
Jimmm (would be informative, but I'm strongly leaning town here)
couple of things.... This is seriously all you have to offer?
Where is the vote then? Do you not realize how we are dying without you voting? This is a classic scum list. It contains no information, no analysis and basically puts everyone in "null" territory. A nice safe list if I ever saw one.
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Time for a popsquiz.
Want to lynch:
mail-mi.
Willing to lynch:
ashersky, sudgy, probably everyone else.
Reluctant to lynch:
Jimmm (would be informative, but I'm strongly leaning town here)
So here we go, going to put this out there, no one on you list is off kooshie wagon, do you just not care. Also arch has now voted for mail-mi, another on wagon. Ashersky will lynch ozzle who was off wagon but that's it.
Liopoil I agree this is a good thing to look at, the issue is we don't know ozzle is town, the same way we don't know Jimm is scum. So while I woul love to see who is voting for ozzle, wasn't voting for Jimm, and was off kooshie wagon, but this last one is the only thing we know to be scummy. Without flips on Jimm or ozzle we cannot analyze like that. I still think Jimm is a better lynch than ozzle but will lynch either.
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Ozle I am going to respond to just a few things, not everything because I am in a hurry to get to work.
I think that we are having a difference of opinion about what a defense is. In my eyes the below is a "defense"
The case against Kooshie is purely that Kooshie has not contributed much.
Well, thats not a brilliant case, thats a lynch all lurkers case, and there are MUCH better candidates for that. Sure maybe Kooshie has had the ability to participate, but then so have the others.
again not a true defense saying kooshie is the most town ever. But saying that we should't lynch him and lynch someone else. It is an attempt to move the lynch elsewhere.
It was pointing out that the case against Kooshie was purely for lurking at that point. and there were bigger lurkers.
What part of what I said was incorrect there?
Its agreeing that Kooshie was lurking and that there was a case, but pointing out that there were worse offenders.
Lekkit says that Kooshie has not posted any thing of substance, well the same applies to you Lekkit, I dont remember anything of substance you have said this game apart from agree with Lipoli.
You may have said something, but none of it has stuck in my mind.
. especially because at this time, you say you are willing to vote for insomniac, lekkit and lio. But not kooshie. You aren't "defending" per se. But you aren't considering him as a vote while using someone else in his place.
[/quote]
Lekkit calls out Kooshie for not posting content, while doing the same thing himself.
Your saying I should NOT be pointing when someone does something hypocritical?
Again, scumhunting.
It does not say i'll NEVER vote for Kooshie, in fact it does not mention the fact that I wont vote for Kooshie. Sorry, im not one of the people that can have this 100% certainty and rule everything out that others do!
I consider what I know at the time and make decisions based on that.
But more important than that, was how quick you were willing to give up on your other "scum-reads" and lynch kooshie once it was apparent that she was going to die. Because she was the lynch that day guaranteed at the time you said you would lynch her. You are right. Day1 cases are weak. So my question is this. If kooshie's case was so weak, but then strong enough initially.... why wasn't he someone you were willing to lynch earlier? This is the crux of my suspicion. You can answer if you want, but honestly at this point I am unlikely to change my vote on you for any reason except that there is someone else more likely to be lynched that was off-wagon.
Whats the point in asking a question regarding your vote on me if your not going to consider the answer?
You've made your mind up and wont change it seems
Who said I was quick to give up my scum reads, if you notice, most of my scum reads I was still talking about on Day 2. I have NOT given them up.
And I notice 2 of the people i gave scum reads on came out of the night swinging for me.
" If kooshie's case was so weak, but then strong enough initially.... why wasn't he someone you were willing to lynch earlier? "
How many times do i have to answer this?
THE CASE AGAINST KOOSHIE WAS NEVER STRONG.
It was one person who claimed a read and then most of the other people sheeping.
Im not going to just jump on any bandwagon for the sake of jumping on a wagon like some people seem to be doing. I will vote forsomeone when I feel there is a reason to do so!
I assume that the case was not strong in your eyes either because YOU NEVER VOTED FOR HER EITHER. Therefore if you thought it was a strong good case, you would have joined in earlier. As the reasons never changed from just after RVS!
Now zip ahead to Day 2, when we nearly lynched Jimmmm, were you not advocating people who were not on the Jimmmm lynch to join it?
This is what I did Day 1, there was only going to be one lynch that day clearly, there were no other cases being built, none of the active people were considering anything else, and the rest were lurking.
I voted for it as it was the ONLY case going, what you rather me do, sit on my hands and wait about 10 days of wasting time for someone to build another weak case? Or get Day 1 over with by voting for the only person who was going to be lynched.
The way I see it, you and Ashersky are both voting for me for very very different reasons. In fact, almost the opposite.
Does that not worry you in the slightest?!
We NEED a soft deadline. I suggest tonight at 12:01 am forum time. A lynch has to happen. If it doesn't, I say we all turn on the players not contributing to getting a lynch.
We had a soft deadline Many many days ago., set by Jimmm when he himself was at L-1, with the old Jimmm promise ofmore content, we went past that while he was at L-1 with a post about 5 lines long providing the promised content. Most of which was meaningless.
You are proposing a soft deadline here, on Day 2, because we are eating up our valuable days.
On day 1 we had no information whatsoever to go on and we were eating up valuable days
I proposed Intent to hammer, giving Kooshie the chance to claim if she was town, and other people the chance to step in and say something if there was anything left to be said.
What benefit do you think we would have got from extending Day 1 and using up those days?
My question to you is, why were the other people off wagon NOT prepared to hammer....
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@yuma: For someone who says "only read the big arguments and don't pay much attention to the rest" you want an awful lot of content. I could bring up points made by others, but then I can assure you I would be called scummy for that. I'm sorry that I don't have much additional stuff to add. Do you have any new content from reading the old content that you would like to share with the rest of the group?
If you read the post before my posquiz you'll see that I actually don't believe in voting all the time. I know meta arguments suck, but it's how I play.
@mcmc: I didn't compare my list with the wagon (which I didn't honestly remember). I'll do a smaller version of the quiz with only the off-wagon people. Possibly with old quotes to appease yuma.
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Reading through my post I realise I sound really harsh. I guess that has to do with yuma first saying he wants to hear from me and when I post he sounds dissappointed that I had no super cool new stuff to add.
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So the mini-quiz! I'm doing this from the top of my head without any rereading. I will make one after rereading and see how it differs.
mcmcsalot
yuma
Jimm
Insomniac
Ozle
mcmcsalot has been flying under my radar. I think he has expressed some reads and argued with a couple of people.
yuma has probably been one of the most vocal players, which is a reason to keep him around. I think he has said a few things that sounds off to me, but if I recall correctly those are mainly theory stuff that we seem to disagree on. Would like to keep him around.
Jimm reads town to me. It's a pity he hasn't said more. I could probably be swayed into voting for him if it came down to it since it would probably be one of the most informal lynches this game, but I would obviously prefer voting for someone I think is scum.
Insomniac hasn't really been here. Even though he has made some posts containing stuff, he hasn't struck me as either scummy or towny. I don't think he's the best lynch, since we really don't have much interaction with him besides people calling him lurky. He compiled a long case on someone, who I can't remember. I guess I'll have to go back and reread that.
Ozle is the other of the two very vocal players. Sounds really frustrated about being voted for without, according to him, a proper reason. I have a hard time believing that he would argue this much if he was scum after Kooshie was nailed for pretty much that. Between him and yuma, I would lynch Ozle, but if I had the the choice to not lynch either of them I would prefer that.
So in order of willingness to lynch to non-willingness to lynch I would put the off-wagoners like this:
mcmc, Insomniac, Ozle, yuma/Jimmmm
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Jimm reads town to me. It's a pity he hasn't said more. I could probably be swayed into voting for him if it came down to it since it would probably be one of the most informal lynches this game, but I would obviously prefer voting for someone I think is scum.
You can lynch me, but please, no ties allowed.
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Unfortunately I don't have time right now to do a reread and update the list. I'll be here for another 10 minutes and then I'll head home. I may be able to check in quickie later today or tommorow. But since I'll be playing a Netrunner tournament and meet my mother I don't know how much I'll be able to actually contribute. I could vote if needed.
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Jimm reads town to me. It's a pity he hasn't said more. I could probably be swayed into voting for him if it came down to it since it would probably be one of the most informal lynches this game, but I would obviously prefer voting for someone I think is scum.
You can lynch me, but please, no ties allowed.
Ties?
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Also, while I think time is valuable, I don't think we need to rush things. Most of the games take more time during the earlier days. In the absolute worst case scenario, we'll be playing a pseudo blitz game in the end.
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But I agree that this day has taken a lot of time. I think ending it just before a weekend might not be a super duper move, though.
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Jimm reads town to me. It's a pity he hasn't said more. I could probably be swayed into voting for him if it came down to it since it would probably be one of the most informal lynches this game, but I would obviously prefer voting for someone I think is scum.
You can lynch me, but please, no ties allowed.
Ties?
It will be an informal lynch.
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So, hammering a scum, that can be dodgy, sure I accepted that at the time I knew what it would look like, but I accepted that because I knew we were not going to do another lynch that day, and id rather save the valuable bankable days for future dates.
I explained this at the time, Ashersky thought it was a good idea.
This bit is scummy, as it seems like he knew kooshie was scum, because he said he accepted at the time that hammering scum can be dodgy... at the time he didn't know kooshie was scum though, if he is town!
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lekkit, you forgot arch in your off-wagon thing. It's great that lekkit and arch have started posting though...
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Also, while I think time is valuable, I don't think we need to rush things. Most of the games take more time during the earlier days. In the absolute worst case scenario, we'll be playing a pseudo blitz game in the end.
We really haven't been rushing things we've been eating up a lot of our bankable days.
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So, hammering a scum, that can be dodgy, sure I accepted that at the time I knew what it would look like, but I accepted that because I knew we were not going to do another lynch that day, and id rather save the valuable bankable days for future dates.
I explained this at the time, Ashersky thought it was a good idea.
This bit is scummy, as it seems like he knew kooshie was scum, because he said he accepted at the time that hammering scum can be dodgy... at the time he didn't know kooshie was scum though, if he is town!
What?
I wrote that about 15 minutes ago, we all know today she is scum.
Hammering Kooshie was going to be dodgy whether she was town or scum considering I had not voted for her before, thats what I knew.
There are commas there, meant to imply that its separate. It was in response to the fact that I switched and hammered. I suppose thats what happens when you have to repeat the same thing hundreds of times. I can write it out in bigger sentences for you if you like?
In full:
I hammered a scum, that can look dodgy
I accepted that at the time I knew what it would look like when I hammered Kooshie because I had not had my vote on her at all, but I accepted that because I knew we were not going to do another lynch that day, and id rather save the valuable bankable days for future dates.
Better?
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Vote: mail-mi is where I'm leaning at the moment. Would also vote for sudgy. Undecided on Ozle, but I fully support a deadline.
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Vote: mail-mi is where I'm leaning at the moment. Would also vote for sudgy. Undecided on Ozle, but I fully support a deadline.
Except the deadline that you proposed and then let pass by?
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I never said I'd do anything at the given time.
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I never said I'd do anything at the given time.
That is a fair and true point
It was Ashersky that proposed the deadline and didnt stick to it, you just asked to extend it till Midnight, which was perfectly acceptablerequest
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I gave Ozle a bit of a re-read. He could very well be scum. But at this stage I think sudgy or mail-mi are more likely to be. Ozle has been very loud and in people's faces, but it is coming across as quite natural, like he's just saying what he thinks. Now that can be replicated as scum, and hats off to him if he's doing that, but I think more often it isn't. So I will support the Ozle lynch if it's the only way of getting us to night. But mail-mi has been super sheepy and provided very little in terms of reasons for voting, and I don't really buy sudgy's reasons for voting for me.
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Real quick post from work.
I guess this is something I don't understand is how people can be voting for people on the kooshie wagon, especially people like me who were off. I mean if there were obvious scum on wagon I would say vote for them. But there isn't. None of the on wagon players are greatly more scummy than those off. And at this point the only thing we know 100 percent is who voted for scum and who didn't. That is huge! And every time we make a case, and I have done it too, on some one on wAgon we are ignoring that evidence.
And like I said people off wagon should be especially willing to vote off wagon since they "should" know that they are town thereby eliminating one more person from the pool of potential scum.
If people disagree tell me. But thus far I have just seen people agree with this in one post and then vote in wagon shortly thereafter!
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Just for reference,
On: liopoil, Eevee, Jorbles, sudgy, Lekkit, mail-mi, ashersky, raerae
Off: mcmcsalot, yuma, Jimmmmm, Insomniac, Ozle, sparky5856Arch
If I had to pick someone off, I would have to look more closely at mcmc and Insom.
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Yuma, (well anyone else as well)
I am struggling to get my head round the fact that if I was scum, and I therefore knew Kooshie was scum I would leap onto the wagon and draw so much attention to myself.
Im not a complete noob at this game, if I was scum and saw 2 of us off wagon and 1 on, I would have got on much earlier to prevent such a thing from happening because the obvious thing when scum is lynched is to look at the people who didnt vote for them them
Im struggling to see that if I was scum why I would jump on the known scum wagon at such a dramatic and obvious point calling attention to myself.
Does that fit what you all know of me?
That I'm such a a newb at playing scum that knowing Kooshie was scum, I would draw attention to myself with such a late hammer.
I want everyone to ask themselves this:
If you were scum and off wagon, would you have jumped up and said you would hammer at the last minute?
I bet you wouldn't....and while I am sure a lot of you are better scum player than me, I think it would be a fundamental thing of scum NOT to draw attention to themselves like this.
I know this is a fundamental thing because I have just looked through Yuma's spreadsheets and I can see only a very tiny amount of scum hammering town, and no scum hammering thier own team scum in the history of F.DS.
Its just a stupid move to do. Scum does not simply hammer scum, especially not in the fashion I did it.
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I'm going to compile all of Insom's posts:
Normally you aren't allowed to do anything veritably random in these.
So anyways the one thing that is interesting about the setup is we could disclose how much we explored. At first I thought this favoured mafia as it would let them know who has the most money/power role. BUT the better power roles are found by exploring so it could save our weak PRs at the cost of ones that could be stronger later. I don't know, food for thought.
Vote: Ashersky
Making sure you say something is an X-Tell in every post is not the way I've ever seen you play town.
Then he starts arguing with xeiron about no lynch:
We are 16 player right now.
As far as I understand, a odd number of living players is better for town.
Furthermore, chances that a cop will pop up will increase every night, so it appears to me that we want this game to carry on as many days as possible.
So isn't it best to no Lynch the first day?
Its never better to no lynch. Ever.
Its never better to no lynch. Ever.
Yes it is.
As explained in these links there are scenarioes where no lynch is optimal for town.
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Happily_ever_after
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=6420.0
I'm inclined to think this is such a situation, but I am not completly sure.
I disagree with the parity argument and Happily ever after is a scum win.
That's all the arguing.
Alright. Weekend over. I'm back and caught up. Am now firmly against claimin unless you have something worth claiming.
Re: Insom votes. I'm actually a bit torn on this one. I 100% like Ozle's vote. That one is legit. Ash and sudgy just posted a vote for me without backing it up because I was an easy vote at the time. Now here's my issue. I already found ash scummy. But sudgy? That guy decided to defend his vote on me after the fact which is way more scummy than I feel about ash right now so I will be putting my vote there for now. Vote: sudgy
I have no strong feelings on liopoli vs kooshie right now as I don't have a ton of back data on these players.
Eevee lurking is probably the most bothersome to me of their post CPU gets. Though I put far less into that stat since I have lurked as town and its just because I'm busy in RL (talking about masons vs monks right now)
It's funny how everyone's saying about yuma, "I don't have a Townread on you, therefore you must be Town."
Yuma is my strongest town read right now but I have a habit of reading him wrong lately. In games where he is scum though I tend to read his posts and think he has a strong point but expresses it in a way that is non confrontational and often forgettable. Here he has been much more confrontational and is one of the people I remember is playing this game the most
Then in #447 he says he had an auto correct mistake.
From Eevee: ins, do you then disagree with robz in that lurking is what I'd do as scum?
With Robz?
I think you'd lurk as scum or be active as scum, I don't think you have a set meta for how you play scum.
#567 complains about Xeiron's quickhammer
Defending his lurkiness:
Ok so yea I'm lurky but as I've said before this is my last mafia game for a long while, and I've been lurky in non mafia games too. Anyways meta aside, do any of you think I would let a team I'm scum with kill Xeiron, I mean really? No, no, no, Scum Insom would have let Xeiron lived and DEFENDED him the next day. Yes I play every game different and am not above lurking as scum (Ozle's game, when I failed to convince people to lynch scum!Eevee) or lurking as town (Masons and Monks). But I'm town here.
Ozle, I did not start in a hallway.
#637 compliments sudgy's vote on him...
#640-642 starts to get frustrated, says that people aren't reading his posts.
Asks me if he is being sincere angry, asks why anger is scummy:
From mail-mi: Whoa, Insomniac, getting a little angry? Lurk and then come back super mad is scummy to me. vote: insom
I get angry as town all the time, but yes I can also fake angry as scum, so am I being sincere this game or not. Also why is anger scummy?
#708 votes for Sudgy again, says he is being "just as active as everyone else."
#825 defends himself from mcmc's post about him being lurky
Again with the sudgy case:
Alright, so you won't be getting it today (it's my birthday just logged on quick to check on this game). But I still think Sudgy is very scummy and I will compile my case on the matter tomorrow. If Jimmmmm get's lynched today I'll have it prepared for Day 3. Please EVERYONE note the bold section, we can infer mafia will, so you may be able to derive information from that on Day 3 in the unlikely case I am the night kill.
Then in #1080 we finally have the case on sudgy. I hope you all remember that, cuz it would be confusing to copy and paste it.
Next post explains why the first quote is empty in post #1080.
Gives kooshie-sudgy interactions:
Kooshie Sudgy interactions.
From Sudgy there is two times that he mentions Kooshie after RVS, one actually neutral to me, the other looks scummy. (Neutral->Day 1, Scummy->Day 2)From sudgy: This is turning into MXXI... I'm starting to think either liopoil or kooshie is scum... Right after liopoil makes a big case on kooshie...
This is before there is TOO much heat on kooshie and initially seems townie, but he could just be placing himself on the psuedo wagon in case kooshie did get lynched, I probably lean a bit of a townie read from this post, although I'm still fairly confident that sudgy is scum. After this he becomes the 4th vote on the wagon however two of the votes for kooshie came AFTER he voiced his pseudo support (there was only one vote liopoli at the time of this post).
From Sudgy: Looking at you quote, I see Kooshie (a townie) gave Jimmmmm a townread. When I don't think many people could give him a townread. This is enough to push me over to Vote: Jimmmmm. This is L-1, nobody else vote until he's said some things.
This is the one on day 2 where he gives Kooshie town status.
I was surprised to notice that Kooshie DIDN'T MENTION SUDGY AT ALL. However she didn't mention most players, here is a list of players she does mention.
Liopoli
Ashersky
Patpatpat
Jimmmmm
Yuma
Raerae
Jorbles
Mail-mi
Lekkit
many of them just in passing.
I suspect there is at least 3 scum in a game this size so I suspect one of them would have been mentioned and the other not mentioned but this is more of a hunch then anything really concrete.
Gives reads:
I lean town on Jimmm. He doesn't have much content despite his larger post count than me but I lean town because he map claimed and stated he would self hammer (though he didn't)
Aside from Sudgy as scum and Yuma as town I don't have a strong read on many people right now and as such most of you are "slightly scummy"
Yuma is town because there is no way scum yuma would have on numerous occasions stood against my lynch when it would have been so easy to just let it happen.
And his last post is...
Ash Jimm already claimed pages back
Other than the sudgy case, there is not much content. Where are you man! Vote: Insomniac
I don't think that Ozle is scum, he's beenn very townie in his defense.
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Does Ozle, as town, usually do this? His defense seems a bit much (if he was scum). I'm going to Unvote yet again, and would be willing to vote for Insomniac (I forgot he was here) because of his still general lurkiness, somewhat tunneling me, and just seeming a bit generally scummy to me.
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I can get behind an Insomniac lynch. It's better than an Ozle one, though I'd prefer a Jimmmmm lynch.
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I guess I should vote. Vote: Insomniac.
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Deflecting is only scummy if you are derailing a lynch on scum, Ozle. Kooshie was scum.
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Wring. Insomniac hammered his partner sparky in mxii in the second day. This gave him huge town credit and he went onto win the game.
However to your point why you didn't get on the kooshie wagon earlier? I don't know why didn't you? When you posted that lekkit was sheeping and thar the kooshie case wasn't as good kooshie was at 3 or 4 votes out of 9. You didn't post again, probably because you weren't online until he was at l1. At that point you were an eager beaver to lynch. I'll be honest if you had hammered I would be less suspicious of you and would not consider you to be a good lynch for today. I would have looked at you closely in later days however. But instead xeuron hammered instead. Look I know you are a good player and all I am saying is that I think trying to get onto a partners wagon that you know is going to happen IS good scum play that vets will do. Staying off completly is what newbs do or players that don't have a chance to buss cause the wagon formed while they were away.
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I'll be honest if you had hammered I would be less suspicious of you and would not consider you to be a good lynch for today.
Do you REALLY think I would have announced I was going to hammer and then NOT hammered?
Seriously?
So what I should have done to attract LESS suspicion was to not allow Kooshie a defence or any last minute town to say anything before we went into twilight/night?
As far as I am concerned there really shouldn't be a question about this, I was clearly going to hammer. Xeiron is town, so theres no way i could have had any contact with him to convince him to hammer instead. He just came out of nowhere and hammered.
And if you believe me that I was going to hammer, then your statement above should mean you dont think I am going to be a good lynch today.
You believed I was going to hammer so much earlier that you forgot I didn't even hammer for the first half of this day.
So my question is:
do you think I was about to hammer?
Because if the answer is Yes then you shouldn't think I am a good lynch today by your admission above.
If the answer is No then presumably you think im the sort of playing who announces he is going to hammer and then not hammer would not be a really really stupid move for scum
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Deflecting is only scummy if you are derailing a lynch on scum, Ozle. Kooshie was scum.
Yes, if you know 100% he is scum then it is deflecting, I didnt I was considering other reads.
Your point basically says: If you are scum then it proves you are scum.
However, if I am not scum, then I dont know Kooshie is going to flip scum, so I should be giving out other reads.
Nobody knew Kooshie was scum at that point, so I was giving out reads on other people.
So the MINUTE somebody presents a case, if I dont know whether they are scum or not I should just shut up and not say a SINGLE THING about anyone else because thats deflecting?
Seriously?
No wonder town never wins these games anymore if giving out reads on people other than the current DAY ONE Wagon is not supposed to be done.
Is there a reason you and Ashersky keep coming back to the word deflecting and no one else does? Even though neither of you have ever explained what I should have been doing.
I didn't know Kooshie was scum, there was a wagon forming, what should I have been doing?!?!
Because apparently giving reads on other people is scummy.
Shall I just sit on my hands next time?
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Also, isn't there a quote from Eevee somewhere saying that if he is scum and away he usually finds excuses to keep posting and getting involved......whereas he doesnt both so much when he is town.
Was that in this thread?
Because he is supposed to be off enjoying London according to the VLA! I wasn't expecting to see him over the weekend, Londons not that boring!
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Sorry this is hard for me from an itouch but I'll try to explain and if that doesn't work will dobehen I get home
if you had hammered kooshie. That would have put you on wagon. And thus off the radar for me. I would nit be looking at you as closely. However that doesn't mean you wouldn't be scum it just means that i think you would not be the lynch for today.
However you didn't hammer. And I am not saying you would not have had xeuron not. I think you would have. So if you are scum it really sucks for you because now instead of being out of the spot light and on wagon you are in the spot light and off wagon so people are looking at you.
As for whether or not hammering scum as scum I'd good play, like I said, I think it is. And I think that is what you were trying to do. But because of xeirion you didn't and that isn't good for you and if you are scum is probably very frustrating.
Does that make sense? If not I'll try again when I am at a real comp.
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Sorry this is hard for me from an itouch but I'll try to explain and if that doesn't work will dobehen I get home
if you had hammered kooshie. That would have put you on wagon. And thus off the radar for me. I would nit be looking at you as closely. However that doesn't mean you wouldn't be scum it just means that i think you would not be the lynch for today.
However you didn't hammer. And I am not saying you would not have had xeuron not. I think you would have. So if you are scum it really sucks for you because now instead of being out of the spot light and on wagon you are in the spot light and off wagon so people are looking at you.
As for whether or not hammering scum as scum I'd good play, like I said, I think it is. And I think that is what you were trying to do. But because of xeirion you didn't and that isn't good for you and if you are scum is probably very frustrating.
Does that make sense? If not I'll try again when I am at a real comp.
I understand what you are trying to say, but your explanation makes you started with the idea that I am scum and worked backwards.
Start with a neutral position of not knowing anything about my alignment, and try to think through the thought process I have said I went through.
- You think I would have hammered
- If i had hammered you wouldnt look at me
Now if I put them together I would assuming that it would shorten your offwagon odds. Except you have put those two together and decided it makes me more scummy than anyone else off wagon.
Basically you are voting for me in the offwagon group because you consider me on wagon because I was going to hammer.
The question you SHOULD be looking at is, why were the people off wagon, not willing to vote Kooshie?
What do you people off wagon think else was going to happen Day 1?
Where was the other momentum?
If they did not think Kooshie wagon was happening, why were they not trying to push for something else?
Did they give a reason why they didnt want to vote Kooshie?
They were content to sit there, and do nothing, unwilling to lynch a scum for no reasons.
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Ozle, it's not "you are scum so you are scum". It's "deflecting away from a scum lynch supports the 'ozle is scum'-narrative quite strongly".
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Also, isn't there a quote from Eevee somewhere saying that if he is scum and away he usually finds excuses to keep posting and getting involved......whereas he doesnt both so much when he is town.
Was that in this thread?
Because he is supposed to be off enjoying London according to the VLA! I wasn't expecting to see him over the weekend, Londons not that boring!
Going to sketch then dstrkt (or something like that), come and spot a wild Eevee!
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Ozle, it's not "you are scum so you are scum". It's "deflecting away from a scum lynch supports the 'ozle is scum'-narrative quite strongly".
But your argument only works if you KNOW i am scum
If I am scum, its deflecting
If I am town its giving reads.
You dont know which one I am, therefore it could be either.
If I am town, I would do exactly the same thing I would do as if I am scum?
You can only know its deflecting or reads after the fact.
And this goes for EVERYBODY
What you also have to ask, the people who are off wagon, were they giving reads on anyone?
I assume they were.
So why were they not deflecting?
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Also, isn't there a quote from Eevee somewhere saying that if he is scum and away he usually finds excuses to keep posting and getting involved......whereas he doesnt both so much when he is town.
Was that in this thread?
Because he is supposed to be off enjoying London according to the VLA! I wasn't expecting to see him over the weekend, Londons not that boring!
Going to sketch then dstrkt (or something like that), come and spot a wild Eevee!
No idea about Sketch, but Dstrk isnt my sort of place. They would probably make me wear a decent shirt and proper shoes to get in!
I tend to go to the slightly less commercialised clubbing places!
Tomorrow were going to a bar that has a bowling alley in it, and also 80/90's arcade machines and consoles!
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The question you SHOULD be looking at is, why were the people off wagon, not willing to vote Kooshie?
What do you people off wagon think else was going to happen Day 1?
Where was the other momentum?
If they did not think Kooshie wagon was happening, why were they not trying to push for something else?
Did they give a reason why they didnt want to vote Kooshie?
They were content to sit there, and do nothing, unwilling to lynch a scum for no reasons.
This is a legitimate question. I'll try to answer for myself and see if I can find what others were saying at the time.
yuma - wasn't on the kooshie wagon, never really talked about the kooshie wagon, mostly because the last time I post before the day ended was when the wagon wasn't noticeable or worth talking about.
mcmc - argued heavily against the kooshie wagon, at least that is the impression I got from before, but now I am not seeing it. I did see this: As for me three targets, I believe I mentioned it but jorble asked again so I will clear it up. I did not say "we" should be looking at yuma, mail-mi, and kooshie. I said raerae should look at them. You were correct yuma was because I simply have a hard time reading him and we disagreed a bit so I wanted raerae to give her insight. As for mail-mi and kooshie, I had slight scum reads on both and new raerae played very closely with mail-mi and especially kooshie in the newbie game so I figured she would have a good read on them.
really the only time it is very apparent he is against the lynch is the hammer falls
Ugh very scummy on xeiron hammering befor people say anything and hammering out of the blue(no posts previously) and a vote change in that same post my vote will be on him tomorrow. Also still don't think kooshie is scum sorry I didn't argue harder. But his wagon will give us a lot tomorrow.
this is still suspicious however
sparky/arch - sparky was for the kooshie lynch pretty early on, but never actually on it. Expressed hesitation to put kooshie to L-1. This is suspicious.
Ozle - expressed that kooshie wasn't the best lynch early, but that it was an ok day1 lynch, then expressed willingness to hammer, had opportunity stolen.
insomniac - doesn't say anything about kooshie and wasn't around for the wagon at all. This is suspicious out of omission, but not out of commission.
Jimmmm - same as insomniac.
So to reiterate:
Jimmm, yuma and insomniac really make no reference to kooshie all day1. None support or deflect in regard to the wagon, but all were a little absent at the time of the wagon build up and the hammer. Hard to read this because it is hard to know what they would have done if they were around.
Mcmc - argued agains the lynch.
Ozle, sparky/arch - both expressed willingness to hammer but neither did.
So ozle... you ask why others didn't hammer. The answer is that 1. they thought kooshie was town (mcmc), 2. weren't online to express anything (yuma, Jimmm, Insomniac) or 3. they wanted to give kooshie a last chance to respond.
Of this I can't really find Jimmm, yuma or insomniac suspicious (for this reason, I think it is plausible to have other suspicions about them in regard to other things). I can and do find mcmc suspicious and I can find and do find you and sparky/arch suspicious.
Like I said before I am basically willing to lynch anyone off wagon (really with the exception of insomniac), because I think that is the biggest supporting evidence. I think scum arguing against a lynch is just as likely as scum wanting to buss. Neither are ideal situations, but scum getting lynched day1 is never an ideal situation for scum.
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Unofficial
sudgy (1) -- Insomniac
Ozle (6) -- ashersky, mcmcsalot, raerae, yuma, Eevee, sudgy {L-2}
ashersky (1) -- Ozle
Archetype (1) -- liopoil
mail-mi (1) -- archetype, Jimmmm
Insomniac (1) -- mail-mi, Jorbles
Not Voting (3) -- Lekkit
I'll keep my vote on ozle. He is our best chance to lynch today atm, is suspicious enough for me--equivilant to the others off wagon--and more suspicious than anyone else on wagon, his arguments notwithstanding. Ozle it isn't that your arguments dont' make sense. Often they do. But really scum is always going to have a strong argument, especially good scum. And if you were in mcmc's situation, or my situation or Jimmm's situation, you would have a strong argument about what you would/wouldn't do as scum. But those arguments hold no water. Because they aren't substantiated. All I have are facts. And the fact is that you weren't on the wagon. Expressed willingness to hammer when previously you weren't interested. That is enough for me to keep my vote on you.
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All I have are facts. And the fact is that you weren't on the wagon. Expressed willingness to hammer when previously you weren't interested
I still fail to see how this makes any logical sense.
Im suspicious for wanting to get on the wagon and had the opportunity stolen, and suspicious for not being on the wagon.
If you believe I was prepared to hammer then your including me in both groups
Ok, next time we'll all just sit around and do nothing and waste another 10 days DAY ONE shall we?
No wonder town hardly ever win if this is the sort of play we are encouraging from the people leading the votes against me:
Im not allowed to give reads unless its about the current wagon. Just in case a DAY ONE Wagon is scum.
Anybody who hammers a scum player is scummy
Anybody who changes thier mind about a player is scummy, especially if they change thier mind about a scum.
Anybody who tries to get on THE ONLY LYNCH GOING on DAY ONE to end the day (And stated this at the time) is scummy
Anyone who tries to save some valuable days instead of just sitting on thier hands is scummier than people who defended the lynch of scum and just sat there.
Because thats why Eevee, Yuma and Ashersky are voting for me apparently.
And the rest of the people on me have just sheeped them.
Unbelievable.
So basically I am getting lynched for:
A) Giving Reads on people Day 1 instead of voting on an unknown player early and lynching them
B) Trying to hammer someone who turned out to be scum
C) Trying to save town bankable days. (I mentioned this quite a bit on Day 1)
So, what I should have been doing is
A) Ignoring the reads on other people because I didnt know whether the current lynch candidate is scum or not
B) Not hammering scum
C) Try to extend Day 1 into a useless pointless drawn out exercise when there was only going to be one outcome
Im getting lynched for doing townie things!
Now, could someone explain to me how a Town SHOULD have acted on Day 1?
Because it seems like Day 1 went like this:
Liopoil gives a short read on Kooshie that was basically 'not posting much content'
Everybody else sheeps that read
The rest of the people sit on thier hands and do nothing pretty much.
and I'M the scummiest person to you people that are voting for me?
Please.
Remember the good old days where we didnt try to second guess everything and did things properly without trying to think somebody is 4 moves ahead and 'aaahh but thats what you want me to think so I shall think this, unless thats what you think I would think, etc....)
Trying to hammer someone is now a scum move apparently.
Yuma has stated Insomniac has done that once in a game (missed that one, was a lot of games to look through!).Ok, so its possible.
Now go and look at alllllll the other normal games, allll of them. How many times has scum been hammered by town and town has done it. All of the rest! Wow, thats possibly 50/60/100 -1 or more?
You want facts Yuma, how about that for a fact?
Scum dont hammer scum in 99.9% of cases, and never on day 1
Now you could say Im clever enough as scum to do that all you like, but the fact remains, if I was scum I could have quite happily sat it out and none of this would be happening right now. I would have had no need to draw attention to myself, and it would be other people who did it, and plus they would have drawn the day out considerably.
And if any of you say I didn't hammer scum that is the same as saying I wasn't intending to hammer scum, I just stated it and didnt intend to do it, that would possibly have been the worse move a scum could do, so don't even consider accusing me of that.
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Ozle...
I am voting for you because
1. you weren't on the wagon
2. your defense isn't compelling enough (both what I have looked at myself and what you have said)
3. you have the most votes at the moment out of the handful of people that I would be willing to vote
Everything else is just meh...
Other things to the side of that. 1. you haven't offered up another lynch option, at least not a viable one. You are still voting for ashersky! He isn't getting lynched today. 2. there have been more than 1 scum hammer on scum. I dont' even think you looked at my spreadsheet.... Other examples are aplenty (although like you said, no day1 and most are toward the lategame. However, scum rarely gets lynched day1 so isn't a very good sample size to look at)... Examples include isnom on sparky in MXII, ehunt on themunch in MXVI, Lekkit on ashersky in MXVIII, Robz on mcmc in MXIX, sparky on Grujah in ZM7--although I think that lost scum the game--, and I can't say about rmm or bastard games.
I understand your frustration if you are town. I am a bit frustrated as well. I am frustrated that this day has gone on soooo long. I am frustrated jimmm didn't get lynched. I am frustrated that day1 ended with a derphammer, making all of this ridiculous stuff necessary. But for you to extrapolate what I am saying into absolutes the way you are is complete nonsense. Every game is different and I suggest that town play the best game each game. All I know right now is that I want to lynch off wagon, you are off wagon and your defense isn't a compelling enough reason for me to switch elsewhere. Like I said, the only compelling reason for me at this point to change my vote is if someone else off wagon looks more likely to be lynched than you. But you haven't done anything to further that cause (and maybe you feel like you shouldn't) so my vote sticks. Sorry man. I think this conversation has gone on far enough and is just being distracting, so I am done.
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I realized that nobody has been looking at yuma. I did a reread of him.
Early on, the main thing I see from him is that he vehemently argues against mapclaiming. Which doesn't say much, it could be town suggesting something towny or scum trying to get towncred.
Now this jumped out to me a bit:
2. in the past few games there has also been a movement of scum toward the top of the posting board. See Robz in MXIX, myself in MXIX and in MXX. Scum just isn't lurking as much anymore!!! And that is great! Here is why, and is something I have said from the very beginning. It is hard to post as scum. It really, really is. As scum in multiple previous games I can attest to this. It is super, super hard. To come up with stuff to say that isn't incriminating, that doesn't have slips, that you are able to maintain throughout a game is very very difficult. And eventually, if--and this is the catch!!--you post enough, you will slip up. You will make a mistake somewhere ala Frisk in MVIII or sparky in MIX.
It could also be read as, "If someone posts an insane amount, they must be town." Now, who here has been posting quite a bit? Himself (and others too, but we're just looking at you right now).
this is just speculation but from what I understand, mafia kills are somewhat dependent on location in the bank yes? So maybe xeiron made the most sense from that perspecitve... he had somethign they wanted and somehow knew that... I don't know. And don't want to go into speculating too much except to say that there are intangibles that we don't know about.
When did Robz tell us that mafia kills are dependent on where we are in the bank?
He suggested looking off wagon for the mafia. What if two of them were on, and he was trying to deflect things?
Also, he seemed to be tunneling somewhat on Jimmmmm and Ozle...
All in all, yuma's given me the read of "seems like town too much, not sure if it's town or scum." He's done a fair bit in this game, if we know his alignment it might clear up a fair bit of things. All of this leads me to Vote: yuma.
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sudgy...
point 1. remember who I was voting for day1? Do you remember? It was lio. He was the highest poster day1. in the quote you completely ignore the context. I was saying that while lio was posting a lot, that doesn't make him town as a lot of scum players have been posting high amounts. You are competely interpreting this statement wrong and out of context.
point 2. maybe you also didn't read the part where I say, "this is just speculation" I don't think robz told us that anywhere, but that is how I understood it, and still kinda understood it. SPECULATION!
point 3. If two are on... which I highly doubt it would make sense for scum!yuma to deflect off wagon. But again, I highly doubt it, instead I am saying "Guys, come look off wagon where I am!!!" See my point?
point 4. Are you reading this game? I have voted for ashersky, mail-mi, Jimmm, Ozle, archetype. I would be willing to vote for mcmc. Really are you reading?
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I'm keeping my vote on insom but if Ozle is getting lynched, I'll vote for him.
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I'm keeping my vote on insom but if Ozle is getting lynched, I'll vote for him.
what does this even mean?
He has 6 votes on him. One more and you would be willing to hammer? Why not just vote for him now so someone else can hammer and we can end this day? Or are you saying that you don't want to vote for him, but hope someone will put him to l-1 or hammer him?
just vote for him if that is what you want to do.
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I'm keeping my vote on insom but if Ozle is getting lynched, I'll vote for him.
what does this even mean?
He has 6 votes on him. One more and you would be willing to hammer? Why not just vote for him now so someone else can hammer and we can end this day? Or are you saying that you don't want to vote for him, but hope someone will put him to l-1 or hammer him?
just vote for him if that is what you want to do.
This means that I'd rather lynch insomniac but if ozle becomes the only possible lynch (hes getting close) then I will vote for him.
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1. you weren't on the wagon - I tried to get on the wagon only the derp hammer stopped me! This is surely accepted fact
2. your defense isn't compelling enough (both what I have looked at myself and what you have said) - My defense is that everything i have been accused of doing are townie actions, I have done what town SHOULD HAVE BEEN DOING. Nobody yet has come up with examples of what I should have done differently! This is my whole point. Tell me what I should have done day 1, please tell me. I have answered every single point that has been raised, most with the point that thats exaclty what town would have been doing in that point. By just saying 'thats what scum would do as well' gives me nothing to defend. This is why I am frustrated, the case against me is that I did town things, I have pointed out these things is what I would have done as town and nobody has yet answered me on that point. Yet someone like Ashersky has done noticibly scummy things (even admitted it himself!) and gets a free pass from you and others. My defence isn't compelling because there is nothing I can defend against because the two people are voting for me for doing townie actions and the rest are just sheeping!
3. you have the most votes at the moment out of the handful of people that I would be willing to vote - You switched your vote to me while Jimmm stilll had waay more votes, in fact you switched your vote to me after I had TWO VOTES ON ME. Asherskys (Who you yourself has said was suspicious, especially as he agrees with my reasoning over why I switched which is one of your main scumminess points, and Eevees who you two seem to be avoiding all contact with each other for now - Someone make a note of that in case one of them turn up scum) Who came right out the gate swinging for you and I.
ike I said, the only compelling reason for me at this point to change my vote is if someone else off wagon looks more likely to be lynched than you. But you haven't done anything to further that cause (and maybe you feel like you shouldn't) so my vote sticks.
What am I supposed to do?
Just roll over and let people build such a weak case on me? Of course not.
I've stated the people I will vote for, and would be happy to vote for any of them. But nothing will change your mind except a smoking gun, you said this aaaaages ago.
Also, how dare you throw "(and maybe you feel like you shouldn't)" that in there as an aside to imply I might not care!!!!
What part of the continued defense I am putting up implies I dont care.
Again, what would you have me do, I tried to get Jimmmm lynched, I tried to get Ashersky lynched. And then all of a sudden its swung to me, and I refuse to just roll over and die and let town bodge this.
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Sorry man. I think this conversation has gone on far enough and is just being distracting, so I am done.
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Ok, I was hoping to save this to preent a mislynch later....but it looks like im doomed so I want to get this out into public Domain.
Which player bought the LOAN night 0?
Now, whoever bought it should know that actually this info is largely irrelevant to scum, because what the loan did was give you extra money Night 0 and then you lost some Night 1 so by the end of Night 1 the person who bought it had a net gain of 0 as if they hadn't bought.
As the next night is Night 2 I feel its safe for you to own up to this.
If you do I am pretty sure I can give you some good cred
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Sorry man. I think this conversation has gone on far enough and is just being distracting, so I am done.
Yes I know, I read your post the first time.
That does not mean I am going to let you say the same incorrect statements about me again and I wont reply.
I know why your voting for me, and when I flip and turn town hopefully if you are town you will re-evaluate what you see as scummy and instead of ignoring blatantly scummy actions you will look at them.
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vote: mcmc :)
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no, really vote: ozle
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but like I said before... if you can get enough people to go elsewhere, I probably will as well. But you haven't really tried to do that.
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vote: mcmc :)
hahaha you git i didn't scroll down quick enough
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Vote Count 2.14
sudgy (1) -- Insomniac
Ozle (5) -- ashersky, mcmcsalot, raerae, Eevee, yuma {L-3}
ashersky (1) -- Ozle
Archetype (1) -- liopoil
mail-mi (2) -- Archetype, Jimm
Insomniac (2) -- mail-mi, Jorbles
yuma (1) -- sudgy
Not Voting (1) -- Lekkit
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. The game ends on April 29th at 7:00 PM. There are 24 days left.
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man... this is frustrating... I mean ozle has me to the point where I don't really want to vote for him, but I dont' really want to vote for anyone else. Or rather I want to vote for a lot of other people, but no one is super, duper compelling. Everyone has something, that makes me not want to lynch them.
Actually the only person that doesn't have a reason is Insomniac. But I read him as town. It is stupid because that is totally meta for me, and I hate meta arguments, but I have been holding onto it all stupid game long.
vote: insomniac. But if this doesn't take I am not above lynching anyone else off wagon. Deadline tonight forum time. Let's make something happen here guys! There are six people currently online. If we all get together we can put someone at l-2 at least!
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but like I said before... if you can get enough people to go elsewhere, I probably will as well. But you haven't really tried to do that.
How can I when there is a massive lynch wagon looming over me! im having to spend all my efforts defending myself!
You have restricted yoursaelf to Offwagon because you are only considering there are two scum offwagon (Im still not quite sure how your so certain of this, but lets assume for the moment you are not going to change your mind)
Yuma - Obviously not
Insomniac - You have ruled him out completely somehow.
Archetype - I really cant see us lynching him today, he seems a bit townie now he showed up, and to a lot of people
Jimmmmm - You took your vote off Jimmmm and put it on me when he was at 5 and I was at 2. You are clearly of the opinion that thats ano go now?
Ozle - This is where your vote is now
So basically you are saying you will take your vote off me if I build a wagon for you on MCMC, I seriously don't have anything to go on for MCMC, he comes across completely null to me.
So what would you have me do, I want to save me from being lynched because I know its wrong.
But only TWO people are giving reasons to join the lynch on me, you (which you obviously agree with your own reasons) and Ashersky (who has always maintained different reasons), the rest have all just followed along with no reasons given, i proved this when I went through them all a while back.
What would you have me do?
I can't answer anyone elses case because they are not giving one
Ashersky has dissapeared after saying he would refuse to vote for anyone else.
Build a case on the one person I have null reads on?
I had enough people go elsewhere, we were there for ages on Jimmm, and then Ashersky started acting REALLY scummy, so I built a case on him and you all switched to me.
There is literally nothing I can do here, because Ashersky has said 100% he wont move his vote. I can only realistically move your vote off me if I build a case on Mcmc, whom I dont have a case on, and im not about to magic one out of thin air.
When you lynch me, you dont even get any really useful information out of it when I flip town.
Ashersky will just say 'Well I always look scummy' which is what he has said today
You can fall behind your 'It was the only off wagon defence'
And everyone else just sheeped.
So im not even an informative lynch!
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man... this is frustrating... I mean ozle has me to the point where I don't really want to vote for him, but I dont' really want to vote for anyone else. Or rather I want to vote for a lot of other people, but no one is super, duper compelling. Everyone has something, that makes me not want to lynch them.
Actually the only person that doesn't have a reason is Insomniac. But I read him as town. It is stupid because that is totally meta for me, and I hate meta arguments, but I have been holding onto it all stupid game long.
vote: insomniac. But if this doesn't take I am not above lynching anyone else off wagon. Deadline tonight forum time. Let's make something happen here guys! There are six people currently online. If we all get together we can put someone at l-2 at least!
OK!
Wow, wish I hadnt written that big long post now!
Especially the bit where I said you ruled out Insomniac!
Whats he up to 18/19 posts?
He has always been on my 'Will vote for list'
Hang on, someone posted all of his posts a while back, let me double check but im pretty sure it will follow with an INsomniac vote!
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Ok, read them.
Vote: Insomniac
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Can I go to bed safely now, supposed to be at stupid early o'clock tomorrow to sort out stuff before I go celebrate my birthday!
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Can I go to bed safely now, supposed to be at stupid early o'clock tomorrow to sort out stuff before I go celebrate my birthday!
happy birthday, and I kinda liked your big long post!
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Cheers, off to play golf, All you can eat Brazillian Steakhouse, then bowling in a bar, then 80's/90's retro night in said bar with arcade games and snes'
Should have got an early night tonight, but its now gone midnight!
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Vote Count 2.15
sudgy (1) -- Insomniac
Ozle (4) -- ashersky, mcmcsalot, raerae, Eevee
Archetype (1) -- liopoil
mail-mi (2) -- Archetype, Jimm
Insomniac (4) -- mail-mi, Jorbles, yuma, Ozle
yuma (1) -- sudgy
Not Voting (1) -- Lekkit
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. The game ends on April 29th at 7:00 PM. There are 24 days left.
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I am going to say this here because I think it would be weird starting up another game, especially in the context of this game, but man I am really starting to dislike bankable deadlines. I liked the idea initially when voltgloss introduced, but it is really starting to lose its appeal. That game it looked really nice because it appeared to encourage town to have shorter days initially and everyone hates really long day1s and day2s. But of late the opposite has happened, especially in games with lots of players (this game, Ozle's RMMM game, the game I hosted all had aggrevatingly long and time wasting days) and the end results are often rushed mislynches and not enough days toward the end of the game! This is because we don't abide by softdeadlines when there isn't a real deadline looming. It does prevent no-lynches, but those don't happen very often.
Moral of the story, I don't like bankable deadlines anymore. I don't blame Robz or anyone else for using them, but games that I host in the future won't be using them because they drive me crazy. My games will likely have hard 10 day deadlines. 1 week isn't enough and 2 weeks is too much. 10 days seems perfect.
<end of semi-rant>
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Cheers, off to play golf, All you can eat Brazillian Steakhouse, then bowling in a bar, then 80's/90's retro night in said bar with arcade games and snes'
Should have got an early night tonight, but its now gone midnight!
+1 for churrasco!
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I am going to say this here because I think it would be weird starting up another game, especially in the context of this game, but man I am really starting to dislike bankable deadlines. I liked the idea initially when voltgloss introduced, but it is really starting to lose its appeal. That game it looked really nice because it appeared to encourage town to have shorter days initially and everyone hates really long day1s and day2s. But of late the opposite has happened, especially in games with lots of players (this game, Ozle's RMMM game, the game I hosted all had aggrevatingly long and time wasting days) and the end results are often rushed mislynches and not enough days toward the end of the game! This is because we don't abide by softdeadlines when there isn't a real deadline looming. It does prevent no-lynches, but those don't happen very often.
Moral of the story, I don't like bankable deadlines anymore. I don't blame Robz or anyone else for using them, but games that I host in the future won't be using them because they drive me crazy. My games will likely have hard 10 day deadlines. 1 week isn't enough and 2 weeks is too much. 10 days seems perfect.
<end of semi-rant>
I think the bankable deadlines idea has merit, and it needs to continue to be tweaked.
That's why RMM7 used bankable D1 days and had hard deadlines for D2 and on. MXXIV has the same system--so D2 and subsequent days only last 14 days max. I think that works because it incentivizes ending D1 early to ensure your following days are all 2 weeks long if needed.
/theory reply
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Vote Count 2.15
sudgy (1) -- Insomniac
Ozle (4) -- ashersky, mcmcsalot, raerae, Eevee
Archetype (1) -- liopoil
mail-mi (2) -- Archetype, Jimm
Insomniac (4) -- mail-mi, Jorbles, yuma, Ozle
yuma (1) -- sudgy
Not Voting (1) -- Lekkit
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. The game ends on April 29th at 7:00 PM. There are 24 days left.
I am 50/50 on insom actually being scum. That puts him as less likely than Ozle to be scum. That's the hesitation there.
@Ozle, I didn't disappear; I followed along to your responses, but there was nothing new in them, just like there's been nothing new in my case on you. I appreciate the effort you've put into staying alive--that's the kind of effort I would put in if I was scum, too.
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Ok, I was hoping to save this to preent a mislynch later....but it looks like im doomed so I want to get this out into public Domain.
Which player bought the LOAN night 0?
Now, whoever bought it should know that actually this info is largely irrelevant to scum, because what the loan did was give you extra money Night 0 and then you lost some Night 1 so by the end of Night 1 the person who bought it had a net gain of 0 as if they hadn't bought.
As the next night is Night 2 I feel its safe for you to own up to this.
If you do I am pretty sure I can give you some good cred
Hold on.... I hate doing this, because I really don't like talking about this sort of stuff.... But how can you give someone credit based off this? I don't see any connection--and maybe that is a good thing because then scum can't either? So if you feel you can clarify w/o causing harm do so. If not I guess it will still be a mystery.
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Ok, I was hoping to save this to preent a mislynch later....but it looks like im doomed so I want to get this out into public Domain.
Which player bought the LOAN night 0?
Now, whoever bought it should know that actually this info is largely irrelevant to scum, because what the loan did was give you extra money Night 0 and then you lost some Night 1 so by the end of Night 1 the person who bought it had a net gain of 0 as if they hadn't bought.
As the next night is Night 2 I feel its safe for you to own up to this.
If you do I am pretty sure I can give you some good cred
Hold on.... I hate doing this, because I really don't like talking about this sort of stuff.... But how can you give someone credit based off this? I don't see any connection--and maybe that is a good thing because then scum can't either? So if you feel you can clarify w/o causing harm do so. If not I guess it will still be a mystery.
Talking about Loan...I see what you did there.
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I did nothing and you can't prove it!!!!
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Alright, it looks like one of the only valid lynches, Vote: Insomniac
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so the case on insom is lurking and being off-wagon? anything else? I don't find the reaction to his wagon earlier scummy, and he has recently contributed a case on sudgy.
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The case on insom is identical to the one on jimm.
Insom responded angrily early on and has now responded with very minimal insight and scum hunting.
Jimm responded by saying he would contribute over and over and over. He has done no scum hunting.
Jimm is better than insom I think though I'll lynch either at this point. Good to know our lurkers are going to continue lurking, simply come in and have a burst of post when it gets dangerous, this is scum lurking not town.
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yay! I am the only one who thinks there is a soft deadline tonight! Party all by myself!
Seriously though guys... New softdeadline after the weekend? Monday at noon forum time?
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I'm not getting behind the Jimmmmm lynch because he's not playing as he did in RMM7 (of course this doesn't clear him, just makes me more willing to lynch Insom).
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This means that I'd rather lynch insomniac but if ozle becomes the only possible lynch (hes getting close) then I will vote for him.
Oh my scummy! I know this how mail-mi usually plays but we can't always give him that free pass, right?
I also have no idea why you guys are all so sure that Ozle is scum, and I'm suspecting scum trying to organize a mislynch because there is no way they would bus another member (alright, I guess they could, but at least I wouldn't if I were scum). I agree that Ozle was fairly scummy D1, but he's really started to appear more Towny as the day goes on.
Speaking of the day going on...when are we going to end this thing? D2 has lasted much longer than it should.
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We've tried setting a few deadlines... Maybe I should start threatening people in some way if we don't meet the deadline... Though I couldn't do much, of course.
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Ok, I was hoping to save this to preent a mislynch later....but it looks like im doomed so I want to get this out into public Domain.
Which player bought the LOAN night 0?
Now, whoever bought it should know that actually this info is largely irrelevant to scum, because what the loan did was give you extra money Night 0 and then you lost some Night 1 so by the end of Night 1 the person who bought it had a net gain of 0 as if they hadn't bought.
As the next night is Night 2 I feel its safe for you to own up to this.
If you do I am pretty sure I can give you some good cred
Hold on.... I hate doing this, because I really don't like talking about this sort of stuff.... But how can you give someone credit based off this? I don't see any connection--and maybe that is a good thing because then scum can't either? So if you feel you can clarify w/o causing harm do so. If not I guess it will still be a mystery.
I'm assuming there was some item scum would have bought over loan available in the same place (priced such that only someone that started in a hallway could have afforded it).
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Alright, it looks like one of the only valid lynches, Vote: Insomniac
Woah? yuma and ozle (two inherently very suspicious people due to being off wagon) vote for Ins and suddenly he is one of the only viable lynches?
If you are going to sheep, you should at least not sheep the off wagon guys. Sucks that they are the only ones posting.
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Alright, it looks like one of the only valid lynches, Vote: Insomniac
Woah? yuma and ozle (two inherently very suspicious people due to being off wagon) vote for Ins and suddenly he is one of the only viable lynches?
If you are going to sheep, you should at least not sheep the off wagon guys. Sucks that they are the only ones posting.
I think Ozle is still viable.
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The case on insom is identical to the one on jimm.
Insom responded angrily early on and has now responded with very minimal insight and scum hunting.
Jimm responded by saying he would contribute over and over and over. He has done no scum hunting.
Jimm is better than insom I think though I'll lynch either at this point. Good to know our lurkers are going to continue lurking, simply come in and have a burst of post when it gets dangerous, this is scum lurking not town.
I know post counts aren't everything but I have 88 posts to your 86. I'm not saying I've contributed a lot; I haven't. This game so far has not been my shining moment as Town. But it wouldn't be as scum either. See LoTR for that. When I'm scum, I don't try to avoid being lynched, I do my best to ensure that people are convinced that I am Town. If we compare our two contributions, neither of us contributed to the Kooshie lynch, and today you've been Tunnelling me for most of the day with this big case that basically amounted to LaLL and a lot of fluff. I'm slowly building up my contributions and now think it's likely there is scum in sudgy and mail-mi. I am concerned that scum thought my mislynch was going to go through and are now trying to bring people back to what they thought was a given, however you are not my biggest suspect in that regard.
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People who still think that jimm is the most likely of us to flip today, have you seen the dragon quicktopic for RMM7? Do you think that Jimmm doesn't care about this game for some reason or that he decided to delibirately play like this in hopes of seeming super towny?
Exactly. In fact, Vote: sudgy for not realising this earlier.
What was I supposed to say before the RMM7 was over? "I'm not voting for Jimmmmm because I know he's scum in a game he's in and is playing differently now." It hurt me slightly to vote for you (I still did have a bit of a suspicion of you). Unvote.
Now, I find ashersky a bit suspicious for voting for me when I'm playing the same as I did in MXXI, when he knew I was town that game. But he did unvote... I'm not sure. I guess I could lynch either him or Ozle (for the reasons you guys gave).
What do you mean it hurt you slightly to vote for me? An unfortunate consequence of being involved in multiple games at once is that you can deduce things that you can't argue. My belief is that if you were Town, you'd see how I was playing in LoTR, see how I've been playing here, and deduce that my being scum here would be unlikely. Obviously you can't make that argument. But feeling like that does not lead you to say that you're suspicious of me because you've played with me as Town for one game day and I didn't lurk then. This is arguing something that you have not deduced, something that Townies don't do and scum have to do.
I'm not getting behind the Jimmmmm lynch because he's not playing as he did in RMM7 (of course this doesn't clear him, just makes me more willing to lynch Insom).
This is so fake, and it's not a stance you can take any more. You knew I was different here than my scum self ages ago, yet you argued the opposite.
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Jimmm's thing about sudgy is actually very incriminating. Maybe even enough to lynch from the wagon?
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This means that I'd rather lynch insomniac but if ozle becomes the only possible lynch (hes getting close) then I will vote for him.
Speaking of the day going on...when are we going to end this thing? D2 has lasted much longer than it should.
seriously. LOOK TWO POSTS ABOVE YOU!
Seriously though guys... New softdeadline after the weekend? Monday at noon forum time?
then again, why am I surprised. Everyone ignored the suggestion of having a softdeadline last time... why would they everyone pay attention this time?
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How does soft deadlines work though? We cant nolynch. We don't have consensus yet. Come monday, the guy with the highest vote tally will be lynched without majority? What if off wagon people simply refuse to vote? What if the lynchee claims something that changes everything?
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How does soft deadlines work though? We cant nolynch. We don't have consensus yet. Come monday, the guy with the highest vote tally will be lynched without majority? What if off wagon people simply refuse to vote? What if the lynchee claims something that changes everything?
the idea... and it has worked in the past. Is to get everyone to agree, work toward a lynch by then, and then if we don't reach the deadline. We lynch the person that is stopping the lynch from happening.
However, in this game, this hasn't worked because 1. people haven't even acknowledged proposed soft deadlines, much less agreed to them, 2. worked toward anything together (myself included here).
The idea is that if you are town, work toward a lynch. If you are mafia, you can either try and play along and appear town or stop the lynch. If you stop the lynch, we will lynch you instead. If you are town, don't stop the lynch.
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I acknowledge your deadline and I will vote for whoever has the most votes at the deadline, or the last time I expect to log off before the deadline.
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I'm fine with that. I imagine the people who don't want to lynch ozle might not be though..
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Yea jimm, I'm do see the post count issue, and I really aren't after you for low post count its all about the ill contribute soon posts which I find super scummy. I was not in this other game that is giving people a town read but enough people have said it so I am willing to go along. Eevee, raerae, sudgy have all said that your not playing the scum game they excpect, so I will go with that I don't think they are all scum. I think ozzle or insom are our lynch for the day, both off wagon. Insom sounded towny to me when he responded but hes gone now again and I'm not sure what to do. He has a posting pattern of posting on fridays and wednesdays, which looks to me like those are the times he has, and not that he is lurking till he feels he needs to pop in. So I think I would rather an ozzle lynch.
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One thing to note that if no votes move around at all before the soft deadline, I have quite a bit of power as I can decide to lynch Ozle instead of myself (Ozle is already voting for me, I am not voting for Ozle.) That said I don't think the Ozle case is that good, and still think sudgy is the way to go today.
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I soft deadline which we actually follow? I'm good with that :D. Vote: Mail-mi for being scummy... and a better lynch than insom and ozle.
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This means that I'd rather lynch insomniac but if ozle becomes the only possible lynch (hes getting close) then I will vote for him.
Speaking of the day going on...when are we going to end this thing? D2 has lasted much longer than it should.
seriously. LOOK TWO POSTS ABOVE YOU!
Seriously though guys... New softdeadline after the weekend? Monday at noon forum time?
then again, why am I surprised. Everyone ignored the suggestion of having a softdeadline last time... why would they everyone pay attention this time?
Yes, yuma I DID see that. I was wondering if people would actually follow the softdeadline this time around, though.
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...blitzing at the end would be kinda fun... but bad for town :P
lekkit: VOTE FOR SOMEBODY!!
insom: looks like sudgy lynch isn't happening, mind voting for someone else?
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So many people! I get them confused when I try to put into words what I think of them, but I'll try my best on who I can call to mind. Maybe do a few rereads, even.
Jimm: Contributing, giving opinions, no reads, really, but otherwise very towny. Actually, not many people have put in reads. So, Lekkit, why point at me?
Raerae: Not much of a read, kinda towny. Is Jimm's vote still on her? I can't remember the reason. At one point he voted her just because she said not to, if they were voting because of lurking.
Ashersky: Right now all I can think of is his tells. He's pretty much stopped doing that, but it might take a little before something more solid enters my mind. Because of this, he's a big null.
Liopoil: ahhh, him. Don't like how he's tunneling and won't say for a second that I might possibly be town. How can he be so sure? Oh, yeah, if I get lynched and flip town, he's in a teensy bit of trouble. He seems surer than he should be, though. I get town and scum feelings from him, but I guess overall... slightly scummy.
Jorbles: town vibes, but a bit of sheeping might have been in there. Nothing serious, though.
Mail-mi: Sheeeeeeeeeeeepy. Like usual. When he was town. So towny, but not strongly, as it could be an all-around trait for him
Lekkit: also rather sheeping liopoil. When he said he like liopoil's case on me and defended it, he still didn't vote for me. He did soon after, but why not then? Suspicious.
you know, with a scum lynch D1 and all, we really should be able to get a lynch through, with lots of interactions and stuff. This is pretty much all that kooshie interacted with other people here. I think our biggest things we have to go on are interactions with kooshie, and place on wagon/off wagon. We seem fairly confident that there is at least one scum off-wagon (I am as well), and I also think that there is at least one scum in the above list. So that's Jimmmmm, raerae, ashersky, liopoil, jorbles, mail-mi, and lekkit. If we cross off people who were somewhat early on the wagon then we have Jimmmmm, raerae, ashersky, lekkit, mail-mi. I'll also take out lekkit because her comment on him actually makes him look towny. So, mail-mi, ash, and raerae are the last three on the kooshie wagon (in that order) and Jimmmmm is off wagon. I have lots of doubts that it will be possible to lynch Jimmmmm today. My vote is currently on mail-mi, but raerae and ashersky are now much higher on my "scummy-list"
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So many people! I get them confused when I try to put into words what I think of them, but I'll try my best on who I can call to mind. Maybe do a few rereads, even.
Jimm: Contributing, giving opinions, no reads, really, but otherwise very towny. Actually, not many people have put in reads. So, Lekkit, why point at me?
Raerae: Not much of a read, kinda towny. Is Jimm's vote still on her? I can't remember the reason. At one point he voted her just because she said not to, if they were voting because of lurking.
Ashersky: Right now all I can think of is his tells. He's pretty much stopped doing that, but it might take a little before something more solid enters my mind. Because of this, he's a big null.
Liopoil: ahhh, him. Don't like how he's tunneling and won't say for a second that I might possibly be town. How can he be so sure? Oh, yeah, if I get lynched and flip town, he's in a teensy bit of trouble. He seems surer than he should be, though. I get town and scum feelings from him, but I guess overall... slightly scummy.
Jorbles: town vibes, but a bit of sheeping might have been in there. Nothing serious, though.
Mail-mi: Sheeeeeeeeeeeepy. Like usual. When he was town. So towny, but not strongly, as it could be an all-around trait for him
Lekkit: also rather sheeping liopoil. When he said he like liopoil's case on me and defended it, he still didn't vote for me. He did soon after, but why not then? Suspicious.
you know, with a scum lynch D1 and all, we really should be able to get a lynch through, with lots of interactions and stuff. This is pretty much all that kooshie interacted with other people here. I think our biggest things we have to go on are interactions with kooshie, and place on wagon/off wagon. We seem fairly confident that there is at least one scum off-wagon (I am as well), and I also think that there is at least one scum in the above list. So that's Jimmmmm, raerae, ashersky, liopoil, jorbles, mail-mi, and lekkit. If we cross off people who were somewhat early on the wagon then we have Jimmmmm, raerae, ashersky, lekkit, mail-mi. I'll also take out lekkit because her comment on him actually makes him look towny. So, mail-mi, ash, and raerae are the last three on the kooshie wagon (in that order) and Jimmmmm is off wagon. I have lots of doubts that it will be possible to lynch Jimmmmm today. My vote is currently on mail-mi, but raerae and ashersky are now much higher on my "scummy-list"
quoting fixed.
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Liopoil has been pushing for on wagon for a long time, who wants to bet ozzle/insom/jimm combo of scum with a liopil partner who was the smart on on wagon and diverting for them. This does not mean I want to go for liopoil, just a thought.
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Liopoil has been pushing for on wagon for a long time, who wants to bet ozzle/insom/jimm combo of scum with a liopil partner who was the smart on on wagon and diverting for them. This does not mean I want to go for liopoil, just a thought.
add yourself into that list and I might just be willing to take you up on that bet.
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I'm fine with yuma's soft deadline and voting for whoever has the most votes at that time. This day is painful.
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I'll be in school at that time but Sunday night I will vote for whomever has the mist votes on them (I may, emphasis on the may, vote for myself if that is the case.)
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I might be willing to do that too. This day is dragging on.
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Vote Count 2.16
sudgy (1) -- Insomniac
Ozle (4) -- ashersky, mcmcsalot, raerae, Eevee
mail-mi (3) -- Archetype, Jimm, liopoil
Insomniac (5) -- mail-mi, Jorbles, yuma, Ozle, sudgy {L-3}
Not Voting (1) -- Lekkit
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. The game ends on April 29th at 7:00 PM. There are 23 days left.
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Liopoil has been pushing for on wagon for a long time, who wants to bet ozzle/insom/jimm combo of scum with a liopil partner who was the smart on on wagon and diverting for them. This does not mean I want to go for liopoil, just a thought.
Also, Jimm, insom, and sparky/Arche and liopoil ate the only ones going on wagon.
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I could go insom... He's not the best lynch, but I will put my vote on him as we get closer to monday if the only other candidate seems to be ozle.
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Gosh, the amount people are going on about on-wagon/off-wagon makes me think scum is safely tucked away on the wagon.
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Gosh, the amount people are going on about on-wagon/off-wagon makes me think scum is safely tucked away on the wagon.
No, it is more likely that scum is off wagon, end of discussion, don't try and work this up into well scum probably knew we would all think this way and are forcing us too look off wagon.
vote: Jimm Still doing nothing but posting comments that are harmful to town(mapclaims, pushing for on wagon, apologies for lurking without change)
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Gosh, the amount people are going on about on-wagon/off-wagon makes me think scum is safely tucked away on the wagon.
No, it is more likely that scum is off wagon, end of discussion, don't try and work this up into well scum probably knew we would all think this way and are forcing us too look off wagon.
vote: Jimm Still doing nothing but posting comments that are harmful to town(mapclaims, pushing for on wagon, apologies for lurking without change)
vote: jimmm
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So all scum needs to do now is bus once and suddenly they're off limits?
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apologies for lurking without change
This is false.
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So all scum needs to do now is bus once and suddenly they're off limits?
Not off limits.... and bussing day1 hard, hard enough to lynch will never be a sustainable scum strategy.... but not the best lynch for day1.
If you really think all three scum are on wagon you are crazy.
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sorry, hard there should = bad = hard to pull off and get a win at the end. Scum has never won a game where scum was lynched day1. It is game changing and should be prevented at all costs. As for bussing in general. From my perspective, bussing for credit is vastly overrated, that credit is often questioned later in the game and isn't worth the loss of another scum teammate.
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I've never said I think all three scum are on wagon. But I'm wary of scum being on the wagon and pushing for lynching off-wagon. I agree that wagons should be something to look at, but to essentially forbid anyone from making a case on someone on the wagon is a bit ridiculous.
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I've never said I think all three scum are on wagon. But I'm wary of scum being on the wagon and pushing for lynching off-wagon. I agree that wagons should be something to look at, but to essentially forbid anyone from making a case on someone on the wagon is a bit ridiculous.
More inflation of statements made, something I find scum frequently doing. You are not forbid from looking on wagon, however this day has gone on extremely long, there's no new evidence coming to light, there is no case for people on wagon that I find strong enough to overcome the fact that they were on wagon. So now I suggest we stop wasting time looking on wagon and find the best lynch off wagon which will surely be a better case than anyone on wagon.
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Gah! I'd really rather lynch mail-mi today, and Jimmmmm on a later day, but fine. I'll vote: Jimmmmm to hurry this day up.
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I've never said I think all three scum are on wagon. But I'm wary of scum being on the wagon and pushing for lynching off-wagon. I agree that wagons should be something to look at, but to essentially forbid anyone from making a case on someone on the wagon is a bit ridiculous.
I have never forbidden anyone of doing anything. Goodness, I have vote for ashersky and mail-mi today! But I continue to state that unless there is an extremely compelling case, on wagon shouldn't be voted.
Here I'll try to explain better. Let's just use points for fun. Let's say being off wagon gives you 30 scum points, or something like that. In my mind there isn't anything anyone has done that gives out more "scum points" than being off wagon.
So player X is lurking = 10 scum points, is sheeping=20 scum points
But player Y is making really bad arguments = 20 scum points + off wagon + 30 scum points.
I am going to vote for player Y everytime.
But if player Z makes a really bad scum slip. Maybe that is worth 50 scum points. Then I could vote for him, regardless of whether or not he is on or off wagon. But that hasn't happened today. There isn't an obvious lynch (on or off) thus we should be looking more off wagon, which is what we are doing and it is the correct route for today, because it has a higher % of hitting scum thereby 1. getting us closer to the win if scum 2. eliminates another player from the off-wagon list if town. Obviously I would like the first option. But the second isn't horrible. And is far better than lynching on wagon and then coming back tomorrow and saying, "hey let's look off wagon, there are still six (where there could now be five) players to take a look at."
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I've never said I think all three scum are on wagon. But I'm wary of scum being on the wagon and pushing for lynching off-wagon. I agree that wagons should be something to look at, but to essentially forbid anyone from making a case on someone on the wagon is a bit ridiculous.
More inflation of statements made, something I find scum frequently doing. You are not forbid from looking on wagon, however this day has gone on extremely long, there's no new evidence coming to light, there is no case for people on wagon that I find strong enough to overcome the fact that they were on wagon. So now I suggest we stop wasting time looking on wagon and find the best lynch off wagon which will surely be a better case than anyone on wagon.
YES! and especially true for those of us off-wagon, because if you are town, you should know that you aren't mafia, thereby eliminating even more one person from the list of likely off-wagon mafia.
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More inflation of statements made, something I find scum frequently doing.
What other examples do you have? Why the sudden change from this?
Yea jimm, I'm do see the post count issue, and I really aren't after you for low post count its all about the ill contribute soon posts which I find super scummy. I was not in this other game that is giving people a town read but enough people have said it so I am willing to go along. Eevee, raerae, sudgy have all said that your not playing the scum game they excpect, so I will go with that I don't think they are all scum. I think ozzle or insom are our lynch for the day, both off wagon. Insom sounded towny to me when he responded but hes gone now again and I'm not sure what to do. He has a posting pattern of posting on fridays and wednesdays, which looks to me like those are the times he has, and not that he is lurking till he feels he needs to pop in. So I think I would rather an ozzle lynch.
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because as I said, its not the post count that I find scummy its how scummy your "contributions" are and the fact that I continue to find them scummy has strengthened my resolve.
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What do you think of my stance on sudgy?
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Other than harping on about wagon stuff.
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I'll vote Jimmmmm if it's really gonna happen this time...
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I'll vote Jimmmmm if it's really gonna happen this time...
If you want to see him lynched, then actually vote for him. Hedging like that is a huge scumtell.
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I voted for him in the first wagon on him. At this point I don't want my vote to be on someone who wont be lynched, and all the same people who wouldn't vote for him still wont. My vote is on the person I want to be lynched the most and I think actually could be lynched today.
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Mcmc is looking scummier now. Reminds me of scum!mcmc from the first newbie game. Anyone for a mcmc lynch?
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Mcmc is looking scummier now. Reminds me of scum!mcmc from the first newbie game. Anyone for a mcmc lynch?
SURE!
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Mcmc is looking scummier now. Reminds me of scum!mcmc from the first newbie game. Anyone for a mcmc lynch?
I would, really I would, but for tomorrow. What are the chances of it happening today?
I'm willing to vote for any of the three lynch canidates (insom, ozle, jimmmmm)
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Mcmc is looking scummier now. Reminds me of scum!mcmc from the first newbie game. Anyone for a mcmc lynch?
Maybe. I'm not sure which way I'm leaning at this point between misguided Townie and manipulative scum.
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I smell a conspiracy. I have a feeling that scum are controlling this game a lot more the people seem to be giving them credit for. Let's look at the Kooshie lynch:
Vote Count 1.11
mail-mi (1) -- mcmcsalot
liopoil (1) -- yuma
raerae (1) -- Jimm
Kooshie (9) -- liopoil, Eevee, Jorbles, sudgy, Lekkit, mail-mi, ashersky, raerae, xeiron
sudgy (1) -- Insomniac
Eevee (1) -- Ozle
Not Voting (2) -- sparky5856, Kooshie
We all know that easy lynches are usually Town, but this seems to have been one. Where was the opposition to this lynch? Where was the scum-driven alternative? What were the other three scum doing while Kooshie was getting herself lynched? There were no other significant wagons. Looking at the vote counts, a few people got to three votes at different times, but as far as I can tell there was never a viable alternative to the Kooshie lynch, and at day's end, no one else had more than one vote. So all three of the other scum were either contributing to the lynch or sitting idly by letting it happen and allowing themselves to be among the "off-wagoners". If you read Kooshie, she didn't even argue particularly strongly against her lynch.
Now think about a four-person scumteam. There's no SK or other team, so all four of them must be lynched or otherwise killed by Town for them to lose. They have some room to take risks. So what do they discuss before the game? "Let's bus Day 1. Town will be so thrilled about hitting scum so early that we can line up all the people off the wagon and take them out one by one." Trading one of the team of four for Towncred would sound a good deal to me.
So let's not automatically assume that we should lynch off-wagon. Instead, consider that scum might actually be playing this game to win rather than sitting on the sidelines letting things happen. I will eat WinterSpartan's hat if there wasn't scum on the Kooshie wagon, and I wouldn't be surprised if there were two or three of them. And being called crazy for that doesn't change my mind in the slightest.
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And of course I mention the possibility that there's scum on the wagon and I'm hit with three votes in the space of an hour or so.
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And of course I mention the possibility that there's scum on the wagon and I'm hit with three votes in the space of an hour or so.
except all three that voted for you are off the kooshie wagon. So they can't be the on wagon scum that you are talking about above can they?
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I gotta agree with Jimmmmm here. Only one scum need to survive for them to win. All they have to do is make one person seem like obvtown...
Oh hey, the above makes me look like scum :P
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Can we lynch someone already? Is it better for me to be voting for Insom or Jimmm now? I am okay with either lynch.
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Can we lynch someone already?
yes please!
I smell a conspiracy.
wrong game...
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And of course I mention the possibility that there's scum on the wagon and I'm hit with three votes in the space of an hour or so.
except all three that voted for you are off the kooshie wagon. So they can't be the on wagon scum that you are talking about above can they?
Good call, thanks for picking that up.
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I'm on board with the deadline. In the meantime.
Vote: mail-mi
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My theory at the moment is that there are two scum on the wagon and one off whose job it is to push for off-wagon lynches. Of course, saying "We should lynch someone from this group" sounds a lot more convincing coming from someone in that group. Does no one else find it strange how little resistance the Kooshie lynch got?
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My theory at the moment is that there are two scum on the wagon and one off whose job it is to push for off-wagon lynches. Of course, saying "We should lynch someone from this group" sounds a lot more convincing coming from someone in that group. Does no one else find it strange how little resistance the Kooshie lynch got?
To be honest I am not. Here are a couple of reasons.
1. It grew and was hammered extremely fast. Kooshie was at 4 votes at 4 pm March 19 (forum time). There were 4 more votes (all basically during forum time night time hours) and was hammered at 5 am March 20 (forum time). There wasn't time for anyone to really speak up against it even if they wanted to once it was a large wagon because it happened so fast and because everything happened during a time when a lot of people weren't online.
2. Looking at the other times we have lynch mafia.
Again going back to MXI. There was one other viable lynch option at that time: Morgrim. That lynch was supported by jot, shraeye, axxle and dsell. We thought at the time that these players would likely be mafia since they tried to derail a mafia lynch of grujah. Turns out they were all town!!! All of them. Grujah's teammates either sat back and did nothing as their teammate was lynched (this actually isn't that surprising as the idea is, I can't argue against it because if I do they will suspect me and I don't want to join it because I don't want him to die) or joined it like Watno and ftl did.
Going back to MXVII. When Lekkit was lynched there was a viable lynch option in eevee. This lynch was supported by yuma, axxle, robz, lekkit and captain_Frisk. The only scum here was captain_Frisk and he didn't really push for the eevee lynch, but rather was casually on it. The main pushers of it were townies! Cayvie the other scummate bussed lekkit hard.
3. Let's consider for a moment if you are right in that there are 2 on, 1 off. So that would be 2 players in lio, eevee, jorbles, sudgy, lekkit, mail-mi, ash, raerae, 8 so 1/4. And 1 player in yuma, sparky, archetype, insomniac, mcmc, jimmmm so 1/6. You are right that if that is the case the odds are better. But what I have been saying all along is that people off wagon--and I guess you can make the inverse argument if you are on wagon, but Jimmm you aren't so you can't make this argument--is that if you are town you can take yourself out of the mix. I am doing that so I know that all things being equal I have a 1/5 chance of finding mafia (really I think it is 2/5, but hey let's go with your number game). That is pretty close to 1/4 even if your crazy theory is right, and all town, off-wagon players should be able to do this as well.
4. I maintain that bussing hard day1 is a bad scum move and honestly I hope that they did it. Because it isn't smart and it means that we will find them out eventually. I am confident of that. But at this point I am worried that with bankable days running out, we won't have enough time.
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unofficial vote count:
sudgy: (1) insomniac
Jimmmmm: (3) mcmcsalot, yuma, archetype
ozle: (3) ashersky, raerae, eevee
mail-mi (3) Jimmmmm, liopoil, lekkit
Insomniac: (4) mail-mi, jorbles, ozle, sudgy
Not voting: (0)
four different wagons... crazy.
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4. I maintain that bussing hard day1 is a bad scum move and honestly I hope that they did it. Because it isn't smart and it means that we will find them out eventually. I am confident of that. But at this point I am worried that with bankable days running out, we won't have enough time.
And I maintain that it's less bad than normal with a 4-person scumteam. But I don't understand what you're saying is bad about it. If it's just that lynching scum is bad for scum, well that happened either way. But how is them bussing going to make it easier to find them, especially if we mostly look off-wagon?
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Vote: mail-mi
Back and forth between him and Jimmmmm, but I think that analyzing Jimmmmm tomorrow is the much smarter play here.
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Hmm so the deadline's in 12 hours or so. Insom having the most votes at the moment indicates I should vote for him, and I don't know, I get sort of a weird vibe from him. I do think there are better places to find scum, including sudgy who Insom's voting for and has been for quite a while, and mail-mi who my vote's on at the moment. I'll leave my vote on mail-mi for the moment, but I will be back before deadline to ensure my vote is available to actually lynch someone, whoever it is.
PPE Arch voting for mail-mi
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raerae will probably vote for mail-mi when she gets here....
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deadline is in 24 hours, not 12. noon forum time tommorow right?
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deadline is in 24 hours, not 12. noon forum time tommorow right?
Oh right, thanks.
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4. I maintain that bussing hard day1 is a bad scum move and honestly I hope that they did it. Because it isn't smart and it means that we will find them out eventually. I am confident of that. But at this point I am worried that with bankable days running out, we won't have enough time.
And I maintain that it's less bad than normal with a 4-person scumteam. But I don't understand what you're saying is bad about it. If it's just that lynching scum is bad for scum, well that happened either way. But how is them bussing going to make it easier to find them, especially if we mostly look off-wagon?
If what you say is true, in that 2-3 of the remaining scum are on wagon and if they had not bussed, then the kooshie lynch probably would not have gone through. Kooshie might still have been lynched but it would have been a struggle to push through !!!Ah, here we have reach a common ground, and I think I am starting to see what you are getting at...!!! I will have to think on this more.
Nevertheless, the whole idea of them being easier to find is that when scum gets lynched it gives town one extra day (one extra mislynch if you will) for scum to be discovered. This often happens via POE, ICs appearing, investigations, role claims, etc. I am not suggesting lynching off wagon until we find scum. I am saying that for today, based off the information that we have today, the best course of action is lynching off wagon. Tomorrow is another story and we will have to see what we learn from the lynch and from anything else that happens during the night.
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Nevertheless, the whole idea of them being easier to find is that when scum gets lynched it gives town one extra day (one extra mislynch if you will) for scum to be discovered. This often happens via POE, ICs appearing, investigations, role claims, etc. I am not suggesting lynching off wagon until we find scum. I am saying that for today, based off the information that we have today, the best course of action is lynching off wagon. Tomorrow is another story and we will have to see what we learn from the lynch and from anything else that happens during the night.
I understand that lynching scum is bad for scum, unless of course they get lots of Towncred from it. But I don't understand you hoping that scum bussed. We lynched scum, regardless of whether her teammates bussed or not. Surely the best scum can do given that a scum lynch happened is to have contributed to it in a way Townies perceived as Towny.
My point about the lynch is that the other three scum were either disengaged from the game or didn't have a particular problem with the Kooshie lynch. You do have a good point in that it happened really quickly. But obviously that also means there were enough people around at that point for it to happen. And if scum were okay with it, then regardless of whether Townies think it was good for scum or not, then they have a plan for using it to help their chances of winning, and my best explanation for that plan is for them to get Towncred for contributing to the lynch and to start lynching those that didn't.
Also, despite talking about numbers, I'm not assuming anything about how the numbers were distributed between on- and off-wagon, and I hope you (if you're Town) do the same. Having 2-3 scum on the wagon fits with my scenario of scum planning this to line up a bunch of off-wagon lynches. But I do think wagon analysis should to some extent be done on a case-by-case basis. I guess my bottom line in this is let's not assume that there are more scum off the wagon than on, and here's what seems to me to be an entirely plausible scenario that challenges that assumption.
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I guess my point is this:
if scum went into the day saying "let's buss hard day1" then I am glad, because it means we are deadling with a scum team that is willing to take risks and is likely to be outed.
if scum went into day w/o a bussing plan and joined the lynch as it was progressing, then I am also glad, because it means that we will be able to analyze those posts and see them for being rather transparent.
if scum went into the day w/o a bussing plan and then did nothing to stop the kooshie lynch or join it, then I am also glad, because it means that we will be able to analyze the players off wagon and find them.
I think the most plausible--but certainly not the only--scenario is the last one. Although in reality I think it is likely a combination of the second and the third--I just think that going into day1 with a bussing plan is suicide from scum's perspective. It doesn't work. Scum has never won with a scum lynch day1. Why? Because scum is immediately at a severe disadvantage.
I have to go now, but will be around later tonight. At this point, I think we need to lynch. I am willing to go on wagon if need be, but I dont' think that is the best place for today's lynch. Really anyone in the sudgy, insomniac, jimmm, archetype (probably not ozle anymore, but I could I suppose), mcmc, mail-mi group I think would be a good lynch with a decent probability of hitting scum and getting good solid info for tomorrow.
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Wait, you just said that on-wagon is not "best place for today's lynch" and then suggested two people who were on-wagon as good lynches.
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I don't like the jimm lynch. And I'm no getting a sudgy lynch. I'm on board with the soft deadline. And will vote for anyone not myself who has the most when the deadline hits. However. I want to vote: mcmcsalot for now
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I'm really interested in your reasons for that.
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thoughts on ozle and mail-mi? (as well as mcmc)
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He is in my mind scummier than you. I haven't seen anything that makes me lean town on him and a lot of people have expressed a willingness to vote their but haven't done it.
Also I just noticed. Look at yuma's unofficial vote count. Who's voting for me? Every single other person who has votes on them except jimmm (Ozle, sudgy, mail-mi) and then jorbles instead of jimm. This too makes me lean town on jimm since this entire game I have been a very dad lynch target
Ozle i didn't think was scummy till I noticed that and I'd be ok with his lynch. Mail-mi is a similar boat though im not sure how I feel about mail-mi kooshie as a team.
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that's a good point... I think that insom is "the easy miss-lynch" that luckily hasn't gained traction. Oh, and that wasn't Yuma's unofficial vote count... that was mine :P
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I agree with Yuma that off-wagon is the best place for the lunch, so I prob won't vote for mcmc. However, if I am the one with the most votes tonight then I will vote for myself. We need this day to end.
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mcmc is off wagon.
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mcmc is off wagon.
Oops though he was off. So If he gathers traction then I will vote for him.
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mcmc is off wagon.
Oops though he was off. So If he gathers traction then I will vote for him.
Is there anybody you won't vote for?
I'm glad this is finally gaining tration but I'm a little pissed it wasn't viable four days ago when it was first pointed out. *cranky pants*
Vote: mail-mi
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So now we're at 5 on mail-mi, 4 on insomniac, 2 on ozle and jimmmm, 1 on mcmc. everyone is voting!
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Well let's get a lynch then. I still think off wagon is best but at this point I guess a scummy lynch is still a lynch that we need and a far cry better than what we have been doing. vote: mail-mi
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Ooh one more vote for me I wanna self hammer!
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Vote Count 2.17
Ozle (2) -- ashersky, Eevee
mail-mi (6) -- Jimm, liopoil, Lekkit, Archetype, raerae, yuma {L-2}
Insomniac (4) -- mail-mi, Jorbles, Ozle, sudgy
Jimm (1) -- mcmcsalot
mcmcsalot (1) -- Insomniac
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. The game ends on April 29th at 7:00 PM. There are 22 days left.
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Ugh, I really don't know about a mail-mi lynch, but I guess the way he's not fighting against it reads scummy to me, he relatively new and knows we have a tendency to attack people tha are overly defensive. So I think he is purposefully playing cool as he thinks that will save him. I think scum mail-mi thinks of this plan. So I could possibly vote for him if the deadline approaches
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Oh the Jimm wagon is gone, okay ill reread mail-mi when I get on my computer later today, and of course ill announce intent before doing anything.
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Yeah, mail-mi, if you're town you should be doing everything you can to stop your lynch from happening and getting a different lynch through. this is especially true if you really do have access to something that will help town.
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Should I be like jimmmmm and do what we said not to do (map claim) to get my lynch off me? Or should I just post once every about, oh I don't know, once every 6 pages like insom or Lekkit?
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No, you should convince us that you aren't the best lynch. Map claim once your lynch is 100% for sure going to happen. (either in twilight, or once someone states intent to hammer.)
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Mail-mi has always been on my lynch possibles from Day1 and Day 2
Putting them at L-1 I believe
Vote: Mail-mi
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Just looking at the people on mail-mi's wagon makes me soo soo worried.
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I am posting intent to hammer.
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I am posting intent to hammer.
No longer worried...
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This day needs to end Good luck town!
vote: mail-mi
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well, okay. Quick: anything you want to tell us about the map? such as where that thing you have that thing you said could really help town is?
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This day needs to end Good luck town!
vote: mail-mi
Why would any town do this?
It's like a tennis partner who deliberately starts messing about and throwing shots once you start losing.
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Ok mail-mi, are you scum or Town? Give us your reads!
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...why would any scum do that? It doesn't matter though, what's done is done.
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robz is offline. mail-mi is online.
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Map: I'm in a silver room that has a treasure map which can allow someone to see the whole bank. That's what i said could help town.
Reads: Insom is scum. That I'm pretty sure of.
Slight scum: Jimmmm, mcmc, the other off wagoners.
Null: everyone not listed
slight town: ashersky
Town: Pretty sure liopoil is town, she's being helpful to town,
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Map: I'm in a silver room that has a treasure map which can allow someone to see the whole bank. That's what i said could help town.
Reads: Insom is scum. That I'm pretty sure of.
Slight scum: Jimmmm, mcmc, the other off wagoners.
Null: everyone not listed
slight town: ashersky
Town: Pretty sure liopoil is town, she's being helpful to town,
Hang on, hang on....
"On top of the big grey square is another medium-sized light blue square. This room did contain a Watchtower, which let you see who else was in the same room, as well as a Treasure Map, which allows you to see the whole map. Both of these have been used."
So Jimmmm says theres a Treasure Map and Watchtower in a silver room that have both been bought.
You are in a silver room with an unbought Treasure Map
And you didnt think it was important to bring this up before?
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Was there a watchtower in your room?
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I'm in a different silver room. That I know.
Was there a watchtower in your room?
No.
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I'm fairly confident that there are more than one of many items.
mail-mi, you might as well say everything else you see.
Looking at the OP, FAQ #7 mail-mi will be in the "killed by town" vault, which is red. Kooshie is in this room too. I don't think kooshie can talk to her buddies. I think you can go to that room and talk to mail-mi and kooshie. If mail-mi is town we can go to that vault and tell mail-mi everything we know, and mail-mi can tell us things that he has heard from other people. It's a makeshift neighborhood. Note that scum could go to that room too and talk to kooshie...
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I'm fairly confident that there are more than one of many items.
mail-mi, you might as well say everything else you see.
Looking at the OP, FAQ #7 mail-mi will be in the "killed by town" vault, which is red. Kooshie is in this room too. I don't think kooshie can talk to her buddies. I think you can go to that room and talk to mail-mi and kooshie. If mail-mi is town we can go to that vault and tell mail-mi everything we know, and mail-mi can tell us things that he has heard from other people. It's a makeshift neighborhood. Note that scum could go to that room too and talk to kooshie...
Or pretend to be Town and talk to the Town members...
Yeah, mail-mi, might as well tell you what else you've seen too. But I guess then scum could pinpoint the location. Hmm...
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Okay. In the middle of my map is a grey square, probably the same square Jimmmm was talking about. To the left of that square, starting from the top, is a silver room and two copper rooms. I started in the middle copper room, which has a Lookout and a Scheme. I bought the lookout, and I don't know if anyone has bought the scheme. The lookout alowed me to see how many people were in my room at the beginning and end of each night. The scheme is a one-shot that allows a player to send a message of up to two hundred words to another player. Both cost $3. To the left of the copper rooms is a hallway that has a door way to (from top to bottom) the silver room (which I couldn't access from the copper room), another copper room, and a gold room. I went into the silver room. In the silver room is a bridge, the treasure map, and a potion. It has access to a tunnel, and two hallways, one that goes toward the left and one that goes up. The bridge allows players to go to any room or hallway they've been in before for $0 and I have no idea what the potion does. The tunnel leads I know not where and it costs $1 to enter it. The bridge costs $4, the treasure map $6, and the potion $2. That's all I know. Good luck town!
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Scum don't can't see everything. Well they might, if one of them bought a treasure map. A treasure map has been bought, according to Jimmmm. It costs 6, which is pretty expensive. Who's more likely to be able to afford that this early? scum. Arch joined late, as scum, and thought that scum saw the whole map from the start, because they bought a treasure map N1. Just a theory.....
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Scum don't can't see everything. Well they might, if one of them bought a treasure map. A treasure map has been bought, according to Jimmmm. It costs 6, which is pretty expensive. Who's more likely to be able to afford that this early? scum. Arch joined late, as scum, and thought that scum saw the whole map from the start, because they bought a treasure map N1. Just a theory.....
What I meant was scum can talk to one another about the map in their QTs and one of them is bound to be somewhat close to it.
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they actually all see the same map...
there's more town than scum, so it's even more likely that a townie will be close to it than a scum.
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they actually all see the same map...
there's more town than scum, so it's even more likely that a townie will be close to it than a scum.
True, but scum can Pillage people. And if they know that everyone is going in the same direction, they're more likely to hit someone.
I don't know. I'm personally not going to go get it. Or maybe I will. WIFOM.
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Vote Count 2.18
Ozle (2) -- ashersky, Eevee
mail-mi (8) -- Jimm, liopoil, Lekkit, Archetype, raerae, yuma, Ozle, mail-mi
Insomniac (2) -- Jorbles, sudgy
Jimm (1) -- mcmcsalot
mcmcsalot (1) -- Insomniac
Mail-mi, the Town-aligned Coppersmith, has been lynched.
I will update your coin totals on each of your maps. Feel free to begin submitting orders. If any 24-hour period elapses without me receiving orders from you, I will assume you are doing nothing.
NIGHT 2 START
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Coin totals are now accurate for all players. Orders, please! Remember, if at any point I don't hear from you for 24 hours, your moves are forfeited.
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Some theme music for Day 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOCQfIxb2ws
Good morning, money makers! You all had nights bustling with such activity, such avarice! Glad to see you all made it... oh, oh no. You didn't. Dear me, it seems liopoil, the town-aligned Coppersmith, has been captured by the Mountebanks. What dreadful news...
DAY 3 START -- THREAD UNLOCKED
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Some theme music for Day 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOCQfIxb2ws
HOLY COW THAT'S ONE OF MY FAVORITE SONGS FROM THAT GAME
Anyway, I bought the gold key last night. Any townie tonight can confirm it by going in a gold room.
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Does that mean it's cheaper for Townies to enter Silver rooms for the rest of the game, or just as long as you're alive?
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Vote Count 3.1
Not Voting (12) -- Jimm, sudgy, Jorbles, raerae, yuma, ashersky, Eevee, Ozle, Archetype, mcmcsalot, Lekkit, Insomniac
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is May 6 at 7:00 PM.
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Hey guys welcome back. Let's start with some wagon analysis?
Kooshie lynch:
mail-mi (1) -- mcmcsalot
liopoil (1) -- yuma
raerae (1) -- Jimm
Kooshie (9) -- liopoil, Eevee, Jorbles, sudgy, Lekkit, mail-mi, ashersky, raerae, xeiron
sudgy (1) -- Insomniac
Eevee (1) -- Ozle
mail-mi lynch:
Ozle (2) -- ashersky, Eevee
mail-mi ( 8 ) -- Jimm, liopoil, Lekkit, Archetype, raerae, yuma, Ozle, mail-mi
Insomniac (4) -- mail-mi, Jorbles, Ozle, sudgy
Jimm (1) -- mcmcsalot
mcmcsalot (1) -- Insomniac
List of people who both mislynched mail-mi and were offwagon on Kooshie:
Jimmmm, Archetype, yuma, Ozle.
I suggest we start looking for potential lynches here. It's going to take a really strong argument for me to lynch someone outside of this group.
PPE:
@Jimmmm he said gold key, not silver key. But actually that's a great question.
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Does that mean it's cheaper for Townies to enter Silver rooms for the rest of the game, or just as long as you're alive?
It is cheaper to enter Silver Rooms from now on for everyone, because it is after Night 2.
If the Gold Key was indeed purchased by town, that will lower the cost of entering Gold Rooms while the person with the key lives. After Night 3, the price will lower automatically.
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Hey guys welcome back. Let's start with some wagon analysis?
Kooshie lynch:
mail-mi (1) -- mcmcsalot
liopoil (1) -- yuma
raerae (1) -- Jimm
Kooshie (9) -- liopoil, Eevee, Jorbles, sudgy, Lekkit, mail-mi, ashersky, raerae, xeiron
sudgy (1) -- Insomniac
Eevee (1) -- Ozle
mail-mi lynch:
Ozle (2) -- ashersky, Eevee
mail-mi ( 8 ) -- Jimm, liopoil, Lekkit, Archetype, raerae, yuma, Ozle, mail-mi
Insomniac (4) -- mail-mi, Jorbles, Ozle, sudgy
Jimm (1) -- mcmcsalot
mcmcsalot (1) -- Insomniac
List of people who both mislynched mail-mi and were offwagon on Kooshie:
Jimmmm, Archetype, yuma, Ozle.
I suggest we start looking for potential lynches here. It's going to take a really strong argument for me to lynch someone outside of this group.
PPE:
@Jimmmm he said gold key, not silver key. But actually that's a great question.
I think I was on the mail-mi wagon too...
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Does that mean it's cheaper for Townies to enter Silver rooms for the rest of the game, or just as long as you're alive?
Oh, by Silver I mean Gold.
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List of people who both mislynched mail-mi and were offwagon on Kooshie:
Jimmmm, Archetype, yuma, Ozle.
I suggest we start looking for potential lynches here. It's going to take a really strong argument for me to lynch someone outside of this group.
So the optimal scum play was to linger off the lynch wagon and allow the day to go on for as long as possible?
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Hey guys welcome back. Let's start with some wagon analysis?
Kooshie lynch:
mail-mi (1) -- mcmcsalot
liopoil (1) -- yuma
raerae (1) -- Jimm
Kooshie (9) -- liopoil, Eevee, Jorbles, sudgy, Lekkit, mail-mi, ashersky, raerae, xeiron
sudgy (1) -- Insomniac
Eevee (1) -- Ozle
mail-mi lynch:
Ozle (2) -- ashersky, Eevee
mail-mi ( 8 ) -- Jimm, liopoil, Lekkit, Archetype, raerae, yuma, Ozle, mail-mi
Insomniac (2) -- Jorbles, sudgy
Jimm (1) -- mcmcsalot
mcmcsalot (1) -- Insomniac
List of people who both mislynched mail-mi and were offwagon on Kooshie:
Jimmmm, Archetype, yuma, Ozle.
I suggest we start looking for potential lynches here. It's going to take a really strong argument for me to lynch someone outside of this group.
PPE:
@Jimmmm he said gold key, not silver key. But actually that's a great question.
I think I was on the mail-mi wagon too...
It doesn't look like you were. I just redid it after Robz cleaned up the vote tally in the above quote.
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Robz, I can't remember, can you use an item the night you buy it? (This isn't related to the gold key)
PPE: I guess I wasn't on it then? I was thinking of voting for him to end the day I remember...
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List of people who both mislynched mail-mi and were offwagon on Kooshie:
Jimmmm, Archetype, yuma, Ozle.
I suggest we start looking for potential lynches here. It's going to take a really strong argument for me to lynch someone outside of this group.
So the optimal scum play was to linger off the lynch wagon and allow the day to go on for as long as possible?
Is that what you think? There's an argument for it, but I'm not sure how it relates.
I am saying that we should try to lynch someone who both tried not to lynch their team mate and who helped lynch a town player.
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I am very surprised if yesterdays lynch wasnt scum-driven. TERRIBLE TERRIBLE TO GO FOR ANYONE BUT OZLE, MCMC, YUMA, JIMMM OR INSOMNIAC. Seriously sad times, multiplied by then by mail-mi's idiotic self hammer. Rage!
I still feeeel Jimm is probably maybe town, but really, we've got to concentrate on the people who don't participate on lynching scum but do participate on lynching town.
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List of people who both mislynched mail-mi and were offwagon on Kooshie:
Jimmmm, Archetype, yuma, Ozle.
I suggest we start looking for potential lynches here. It's going to take a really strong argument for me to lynch someone outside of this group.
So the optimal scum play was to linger off the lynch wagon and allow the day to go on for as long as possible?
Is that what you think? There's an argument for it, but I'm not sure how it relates.
I am saying that we should try to lynch someone who both tried not to lynch their team mate and who helped lynch a town player.
This might be what scum want us to think. They might be purposely doing things differently so that others will think this exact thing. Now, I might be wrong, but it's something to think about.
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I think it very much got to the stage where voting for mail-mi became the pro-Town thing to do, since we really needed to lynch someone. And based on my recent scum experience, my day game as scum is entirely based around "What is the Towny thing to do?" or more importantly, "What can I do that others will see as Towny?" It was certainly NOT "Lynch Town! Try to stop teammate lynches!" So I'm very wary of assuming that scum will follow predictable voting patterns.
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I still feeeel Jimm is probably maybe town, but really, we've got to concentrate on the people who don't participate on lynching scum but do participate on lynching town.
Why? You think I'm probably Town but you think lynching me would be decent simply because I'm in that particular group of people?
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I am very surprised if yesterdays lynch wasnt scum-driven. TERRIBLE TERRIBLE TO GO FOR ANYONE BUT OZLE, MCMC, YUMA, JIMMM OR INSOMNIAC. Seriously sad times, multiplied by then by mail-mi's idiotic self hammer. Rage!
I still feeeel Jimm is probably maybe town, but really, we've got to concentrate on the people who don't participate on lynching scum but do participate on lynching town.
...What is this I don't even. Sudgy was clearly a better candidate and guess what! He still is Vote: Sudgy
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I think it very much got to the stage where voting for mail-mi became the pro-Town thing to do, since we really needed to lynch someone. And based on my recent scum experience, my day game as scum is entirely based around "What is the Towny thing to do?" or more importantly, "What can I do that others will see as Towny?" It was certainly NOT "Lynch Town! Try to stop teammate lynches!" So I'm very wary of assuming that scum will follow predictable voting patterns.
I dont think lynching from the wagon was a towny thing to do. Really, mail-mi was/is just a classic misslynch target. You all should know better.
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I still feeeel Jimm is probably maybe town, but really, we've got to concentrate on the people who don't participate on lynching scum but do participate on lynching town.
Why? You think I'm probably Town but you think lynching me would be decent simply because I'm in that particular group of people?
I still have the read on your behavior that you arent being scum Jimm. But, you've fooled me before, and the hard evidence of not participating in lynching Kooshie is just very damning. Yuma went through the numbers a bunch of times.
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I am very surprised if yesterdays lynch wasnt scum-driven. TERRIBLE TERRIBLE TO GO FOR ANYONE BUT OZLE, MCMC, YUMA, JIMMM OR INSOMNIAC. Seriously sad times, multiplied by then by mail-mi's idiotic self hammer. Rage!
I still feeeel Jimm is probably maybe town, but really, we've got to concentrate on the people who don't participate on lynching scum but do participate on lynching town.
...What is this I don't even. Sudgy was clearly a better candidate and guess what! He still is Vote: Sudgy
This. Vote: sudgy for coming up with fake reasons for reads.
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I think it very much got to the stage where voting for mail-mi became the pro-Town thing to do, since we really needed to lynch someone. And based on my recent scum experience, my day game as scum is entirely based around "What is the Towny thing to do?" or more importantly, "What can I do that others will see as Towny?" It was certainly NOT "Lynch Town! Try to stop teammate lynches!" So I'm very wary of assuming that scum will follow predictable voting patterns.
So if it was the pro-town thing to do and scum knew it would lynch a towny (working towards their wincon) wouldn't they want to lynch mail-mi because they could justify it by saying, "Oh we needed to lynch someone to move the game along." That's like the ultimate situation for scum to vote without seeming scummy!
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I still feeeel Jimm is probably maybe town, but really, we've got to concentrate on the people who don't participate on lynching scum but do participate on lynching town.
Why? You think I'm probably Town but you think lynching me would be decent simply because I'm in that particular group of people?
I still have the read on your behavior that you arent being scum Jimm. But, you've fooled me before, and the hard evidence of not participating in lynching Kooshie is just very damning. Yuma went through the numbers a bunch of times.
Yep okay, let's just pick someone who voted a particular way and lynch them. Because, you know, scum never bus and Townies are never wrong.
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I still feeeel Jimm is probably maybe town, but really, we've got to concentrate on the people who don't participate on lynching scum but do participate on lynching town.
Why? You think I'm probably Town but you think lynching me would be decent simply because I'm in that particular group of people?
I still have the read on your behavior that you arent being scum Jimm. But, you've fooled me before, and the hard evidence of not participating in lynching Kooshie is just very damning. Yuma went through the numbers a bunch of times.
Yep okay, let's just pick someone who voted a particular way and lynch them. Because, you know, scum never bus and Townies are never wrong.
So you think it's likely all three scum were on the Kooshie wagon then?
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I still feeeel Jimm is probably maybe town, but really, we've got to concentrate on the people who don't participate on lynching scum but do participate on lynching town.
Why? You think I'm probably Town but you think lynching me would be decent simply because I'm in that particular group of people?
I still have the read on your behavior that you arent being scum Jimm. But, you've fooled me before, and the hard evidence of not participating in lynching Kooshie is just very damning. Yuma went through the numbers a bunch of times.
Yep okay, let's just pick someone who voted a particular way and lynch them. Because, you know, scum never bus and Townies are never wrong.
So you think it's likely all three scum were on the Kooshie wagon then?
/sarcasm
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Wait what? Now I'm confused. No I didn't say all scum must have bussed.
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I have the gold key. If someone goes into a gold room tonight and finds that it costs less, I'm a confirmed townie. If you lynch me, town can't use that benefit.
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Wait what? Now I'm confused. No I didn't say all scum must have bussed.
I'm saying just thinking about the likelihood of 1/2/3 scum being on/off the wagon, it's pretty logical to arrive in the conclusion of "yeah, we should be looking at the guys who didn't want to lynch Kooshie and pick who is the scummies in there". Or as yuma put it, not participating in Kooshie lynch adds like 30 scum points to an individual. Mail-mi was just being her scummy self, classic easy mislynch-target, sad it came to that.
Insomniac's sudgy-case is better in my eyes, as it IS a contradiction. Still, I havent ever seen town sudgy I dont think, I dont know if he is prone to being like that regardless of his alignment (think of morgrim).
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I have the gold key. If someone goes into a gold room tonight and finds that it costs less, I'm a confirmed townie. If you lynch me, town can't use that benefit.
If he's scum this being a lie only buys him a day. I get people's cases on sudgy, but I don't think he'd lie about this just to live one more night. (and if it turns out he did we can just lynch him tomorrow).
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Robz, I can't remember, can you use an item the night you buy it? (This isn't related to the gold key)
PPE: I guess I wasn't on it then? I was thinking of voting for him to end the day I remember...
Yes, generally speaking.
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I saw an item called the Oracle, and when you used it you selected two people and would be told if one of them is scum. So, you who bought the Oracle, if you used it, say so now and who you suspected. It would be great to get two townies cleared or to figure out one of two people is scum. If no one claims, either mafia bought it or they haven't used it yet. If someone claims, we need to think about if that person was mafia and what they would do.
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I saw an item called the Oracle, and when you used it you selected two people and would be told if one of them is scum. So, you who bought the Oracle, if you used it, say so now and who you suspected. It would be great to get two townies cleared or to figure out one of two people is scum. If no one claims, either mafia bought it or they haven't used it yet. If someone claims, we need to think about if that person was mafia and what they would do.
I forgot to mention that I saw someone bought it :P
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How much did the Oracle cost?
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How much did the Oracle cost?
$8.
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Wow, someone clearly had cash to burn.
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Well, the Gold Key cost $6...
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I saw an item called the Oracle, and when you used it you selected two people and would be told if one of them is scum. So, you who bought the Oracle, if you used it, say so now and who you suspected. It would be great to get two townies cleared or to figure out one of two people is scum. If no one claims, either mafia bought it or they haven't used it yet. If someone claims, we need to think about if that person was mafia and what they would do.
NO! DO NOT CLAIM! At least not yet....
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I have the gold key. If someone goes into a gold room tonight and finds that it costs less, I'm a confirmed townie. If you lynch me, town can't use that benefit.
based completely off this sudgy is not the best lynch for today. Because 1. it is an easily confirmed claim during the night. 2. it can negatively impact town if he is telling the truth.
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and mail-mi: I assume you are reading this. But seriously? Self-hammering? Dumb, dumb, dumb. I mean in what world did you think this was a good idea? I know you can't answer, but if I ever get to the spectator topic, you and I are going to have a conversation about this!
1. you lynched town (not good) 2. it didn't save us anytime. If you were going to be lynched, someone else would have done it 3. it robbed us of getting information that was valuable (who else would have hammered you?)
There was no plus side. None. This is twice in this game that stupid hammers have occurred. There had better not be another today! Everybody think before you hammer!
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I saw an item called the Oracle, and when you used it you selected two people and would be told if one of them is scum. So, you who bought the Oracle, if you used it, say so now and who you suspected. It would be great to get two townies cleared or to figure out one of two people is scum. If no one claims, either mafia bought it or they haven't used it yet. If someone claims, we need to think about if that person was mafia and what they would do.
NO! DO NOT CLAIM! At least not yet....
Why not? It doesn't mean they are a PR, so they won't get killed during the night, it isn't giving any information to scum while it is to us, etc.
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if they found scum, say something.... otherwise i would say wait and observe who becomes lynch candidates and see who is voting fo them. actually maybe even wait if you found scum.
and then in a few days claim and reveal. that way we have both the info from the oracle and info from playing w/o that info.
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Day1 post count Day 2 post count
1. Jimm: 35 77
2. raerae: 26 30
3. yuma: 29 118
4. ashersky: 42 100
5. Insomniac: 10 17
6. Eevee: 21 56
7. Jorbles: 15 41
8. liopoil: 92 124
9. sparky5856 Archetype: 26 31
10. mcmcsalot: 32 69
11. sudgy: 33 44
12. xeiron: 13
13. Lekkit: 16 18
14. Ozle: 65 88
15. Kooshie: 38
16. mail-mi: 39 55
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I am very surprised if yesterdays lynch wasnt scum-driven. TERRIBLE TERRIBLE TO GO FOR ANYONE BUT OZLE, MCMC, YUMA, JIMMM OR INSOMNIAC. Seriously sad times, multiplied by then by mail-mi's idiotic self hammer. Rage!
why no archetype in this list?
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I am very surprised if yesterdays lynch wasnt scum-driven. TERRIBLE TERRIBLE TO GO FOR ANYONE BUT OZLE, MCMC, YUMA, JIMMM OR INSOMNIAC. Seriously sad times, multiplied by then by mail-mi's idiotic self hammer. Rage!
why no archetype in this list?
Oversight. He is actually one of my preferred guys (without rereading, I'd rank them Ozle>Archetype>yuma>mcmc>Insomniac>Jimmm, all being very close).
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I am very surprised if yesterdays lynch wasnt scum-driven. TERRIBLE TERRIBLE TO GO FOR ANYONE BUT OZLE, MCMC, YUMA, JIMMM OR INSOMNIAC. Seriously sad times, multiplied by then by mail-mi's idiotic self hammer. Rage!
why no archetype in this list?
Oversight. He is actually one of my preferred guys (without rereading, I'd rank them Ozle>Archetype>yuma>mcmc>Insomniac>Jimmm, all being very close).
I agree (minus myself obviously). I do regret moving onto the mail-mi wagon. Looking back that should be obvious, but at the time I should have known better. Did know better in fact but was so frustrated by the lack of movement and the stalling everytime we got close to someone off wagon.
Right now Archetype has to be at the top, mcmc right there as well. Insomniac next, with Ozle and Jimm toward the back. But like you said they are all very, very close.
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Does no one realize that claiming to have bought the Gold Key last night is a ridiculously obvious scum grasp at town!cred?
GOLD ROOMS WILL BE CHEAPER TO ENTER AUTOMATICALLY TONIGHT.
That means there is no proof you bought the gold key, no proof you are town, and it is not a reason to not kill you.
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Does no one realize that claiming to have bought the Gold Key last night is a ridiculously obvious scum grasp at town!cred?
GOLD ROOMS WILL BE CHEAPER TO ENTER AUTOMATICALLY TONIGHT.
That means there is no proof you bought the gold key, no proof you are town, and it is not a reason to not kill you.
The automatic cost reduction for Gold Rooms does not kick in until AFTER Night 3.
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Does no one realize that claiming to have bought the Gold Key last night is a ridiculously obvious scum grasp at town!cred?
GOLD ROOMS WILL BE CHEAPER TO ENTER AUTOMATICALLY TONIGHT.
That means there is no proof you bought the gold key, no proof you are town, and it is not a reason to not kill you.
The automatic cost reduction for Gold Rooms does not kick in until AFTER Night 3.
so we would have one last night to verify if sudgy is telling the truth. I am hoping that he isn't but thought the same away about this as you did ash.
sudgy isn't a good lynch for today.
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Day1 post count Day 2 post count
1. Jimm: 35 77
2. raerae: 26 30
3. yuma: 29 118
4. ashersky: 42 100
5. Insomniac: 10 17
6. Eevee: 21 56
7. Jorbles: 15 41
8. liopoil: 92 124
9. sparky5856 Archetype: 26 31
10. mcmcsalot: 32 69
11. sudgy: 33 44
12. xeiron: 13
13. Lekkit: 16 18
14. Ozle: 65 88
15. Kooshie: 38
16. mail-mi: 39 55
raerae, Insomniac, Archetype and especially Lekkit... especially Lekkit. Made an unacceptably small contribution to discussion yesterday. d2 was really long and they made 7 posts or less. That combined with my previous wagon analysis makes me vote: Archetype.
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I'm going to go with Vote: Lekkit. He lurkied inMAII and was scum and I could see him doing it again. Him or Jorbles are my preferred lynches for today.
I think the owner of the Oracle should claim. There's nothing worse than a Cop dying knowing who's cleared of scum and even worse, who's scum. I also believe sudgy's claim, if he were scum, it would take just one move to find out if he was lying or not.
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Day1 post count Day 2 post count
1. Jimm: 35 77
2. raerae: 26 30
3. yuma: 29 118
4. ashersky: 42 100
5. Insomniac: 10 17
6. Eevee: 21 56
7. Jorbles: 15 41
8. liopoil: 92 124
9. sparky5856 Archetype: 26 31
10. mcmcsalot: 32 69
11. sudgy: 33 44
12. xeiron: 13
13. Lekkit: 16 18
14. Ozle: 65 88
15. Kooshie: 38
16. mail-mi: 39 55
I can't believe I only posted 6 times in D2...am I reading that wrong or was I really that useless??
I 100% disagree with claiming if you bought Oracle UNLESS you found scum and even then maybe wait a little bit to see how the day progresses and give us some stuff to analyze.
Also, still only on my phone so doing what I can.
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Why is creating two semi-ICs bad?
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Day1 post count Day 2 post count
1. Jimm: 35 77
2. raerae: 26 30
3. yuma: 29 118
4. ashersky: 42 100
5. Insomniac: 10 17
6. Eevee: 21 56
7. Jorbles: 15 41
8. liopoil: 92 124
9. sparky5856 Archetype: 26 31
10. mcmcsalot: 32 69
11. sudgy: 33 44
12. xeiron: 13
13. Lekkit: 16 18
14. Ozle: 65 88
15. Kooshie: 38
16. mail-mi: 39 55
I can't believe I only posted 6 times in D2...am I reading that wrong or was I really that useless??
I 100% disagree with claiming if you bought Oracle UNLESS you found scum and even then maybe wait a little bit to see how the day progresses and give us some stuff to analyze.
Also, still only on my phone so doing what I can.
you are reading it wrong. Sorry. You posted 26 times day1 and 30 times day2. The end number is not a total.
And I agree. Claim sometime today. Just not in the next few RL days unless you found scum. Claim before the day is over, but not until we have some time to gauge reactions, votes, accusations, etc before knowing who may be cleared. It is just one more thing that we can use to find scum. But I would be careful to not use up too many days--due to bankable deadlines--for the wait. I would suggest 1-2 RL days.
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Why is creating two semi-ICs bad?
I just didn't like being forced to claim in LoTR and I don't like pushing somebody else to do it. If they didn't find scum then give them another shot to find them. Maybe we could all give reads at the end of the day so if the cop/oracle does die we can look at that? I just want to get as much use out of this person as possible and I'm afraid if we expose that person they'll be the kill.
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How are we feeling on the usefulness of knowing what the map looks like (i.e. where the rooms are, etc.)?
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I'm going to go with Vote: Lekkit. He lurkied inMAII and was scum and I could see him doing it again. Him or Jorbles are my preferred lynches for today.
I think the owner of the Oracle should claim. There's nothing worse than a Cop dying knowing who's cleared of scum and even worse, who's scum. I also believe sudgy's claim, if he were scum, it would take just one move to find out if he was lying or not.
oh and vote: archetype
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How are we feeling on the usefulness of knowing what the map looks like (i.e. where the rooms are, etc.)?
What are the benefits in your eyes, Ash?
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How are we feeling on the usefulness of knowing what the map looks like (i.e. where the rooms are, etc.)?
What are the benefits in your eyes, Ash?
Well, we could possibly catch liars, since there's bound to be overlap in where we've all been. No one refuted any of Jimmmmm's map-claim, for example. Had anything he said been a lie, and one of us had been in that room, we could have confirmed it as such.
We know scum already knows the entire layout. We know that a power exists for others to learn the layout. It's the 3rd day at this point, so we've all possibly explored a fair amount. I don't think the negatives (giving too much info to scum) are there.
Claiming what was available in each room is probably more dangerous, but claiming what we know about what the map looks like could be helpful.
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How are we feeling on the usefulness of knowing what the map looks like (i.e. where the rooms are, etc.)?
What are the benefits in your eyes, Ash?
Well, we could possibly catch liars, since there's bound to be overlap in where we've all been. No one refuted any of Jimmmmm's map-claim, for example. Had anything he said been a lie, and one of us had been in that room, we could have confirmed it as such.
We know scum already knows the entire layout. We know that a power exists for others to learn the layout. It's the 3rd day at this point, so we've all possibly explored a fair amount. I don't think the negatives (giving too much info to scum) are there.
Claiming what was available in each room is probably more dangerous, but claiming what we know about what the map looks like could be helpful.
Ashersky, I am going to go out on a limb, and attempt to do this town some good. I think I may know the reason you are wondering about a map claim. If this is the reason I think we need to discuss what we should do. But be as vague as possible
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Ashersky, I am going to go out on a limb, and attempt to do this town some good. I think I may know the reason you are wondering about a map claim. If this is the reason I think we need to discuss what we should do. But be as vague as possible
That's pretty vague.
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Ashersky, I am going to go out on a limb, and attempt to do this town some good. I think I may know the reason you are wondering about a map claim. If this is the reason I think we need to discuss what we should do. But be as vague as possible
That's pretty vague.
Nevermind then, it's not you.
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Ashersky, I am going to go out on a limb, and attempt to do this town some good. I think I may know the reason you are wondering about a map claim. If this is the reason I think we need to discuss what we should do. But be as vague as possible
That's pretty vague.
Nevermind then, it's not you.
I mean, maybe its me.
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Vote Count 3.2
sudgy (2) -- Insomniac, Jimm
Archetype (2) -- Jorbles, yuma
Lekkit (1) -- Archetype
Not Voting (7) -- sudgy, raerae, ashersky, Eevee, Ozle, mcmcsalot, Lekkit
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is May 6 at 7:00 PM.
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Ashersky, I am going to go out on a limb, and attempt to do this town some good. I think I may know the reason you are wondering about a map claim. If this is the reason I think we need to discuss what we should do. But be as vague as possible
That's pretty vague.
Nevermind then, it's not you.
I mean, maybe its me.
Okay I think I have a way to figure this out, would you say you did something multiple times last night?
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Vote Count 3.2
sudgy (2) -- Insomniac, Jimm
Insomniac and Jimmmm: do you both still maintain that sudgy is the best lynch today? Do you not think that his claim regarding the golden key--and thus his alignment--can be verified tonight?
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Fuck... S.H.D as far as anything having to do with my idiotic claim goes. I was no where near vague enough and may have just screwed up.
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Day1 post count Day 2 post count
1. Jimm: 35 77
2. raerae: 26 30
3. yuma: 29 118
4. ashersky: 42 100
5. Insomniac: 10 17
6. Eevee: 21 56
7. Jorbles: 15 41
8. liopoil: 92 124
9. sparky5856 Archetype: 26 31
10. mcmcsalot: 32 69
11. sudgy: 33 44
12. xeiron: 13
13. Lekkit: 16 18
14. Ozle: 65 88
15. Kooshie: 38
16. mail-mi: 39 55
I can't believe I only posted 6 times in D2...am I reading that wrong or was I really that useless??
I 100% disagree with claiming if you bought Oracle UNLESS you found scum and even then maybe wait a little bit to see how the day progresses and give us some stuff to analyze.
Also, still only on my phone so doing what I can.
you are reading it wrong. Sorry. You posted 26 times day1 and 30 times day2. The end number is not a total.
And I agree. Claim sometime today. Just not in the next few RL days unless you found scum. Claim before the day is over, but not until we have some time to gauge reactions, votes, accusations, etc before knowing who may be cleared. It is just one more thing that we can use to find scum. But I would be careful to not use up too many days--due to bankable deadlines--for the wait. I would suggest 1-2 RL days.
Ohhh I totally read that wrong then. I guess because everyone had posted more D2 than they had D1. I guess Archetype is not quite as scummy as I thought he was for his post counts then, but I still think he's scummy so I'll leave my vote there for now.
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Vote Count 3.2
sudgy (2) -- Insomniac, Jimm
Insomniac and Jimmmm: do you both still maintain that sudgy is the best lynch today? Do you not think that his claim regarding the golden key--and thus his alignment--can be verified tonight?
I'm torn. He reads by far the scummiest to me for doing what to me seems like just making stuff up. But, I totally get the argument against lynching him today seeing as he's made what seems like a verifiable claim. So, assuming we find a good alternative, I guess I'm happy to put off lynching sudgy in the hope that we'll have good reason to believe or disbelieve him tomorrow, so I'll Unvote for now.
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How are we feeling on the usefulness of knowing what the map looks like (i.e. where the rooms are, etc.)?
What are the benefits in your eyes, Ash?
Well, we could possibly catch liars, since there's bound to be overlap in where we've all been. No one refuted any of Jimmmmm's map-claim, for example. Had anything he said been a lie, and one of us had been in that room, we could have confirmed it as such.
We know scum already knows the entire layout. We know that a power exists for others to learn the layout. It's the 3rd day at this point, so we've all possibly explored a fair amount. I don't think the negatives (giving too much info to scum) are there.
Claiming what was available in each room is probably more dangerous, but claiming what we know about what the map looks like could be helpful.
Did I miss something that happened?
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Why is creating two semi-ICs bad?
I just didn't like being forced to claim in LoTR and I don't like pushing somebody else to do it. If they didn't find scum then give them another shot to find them. Maybe we could all give reads at the end of the day so if the cop/oracle does die we can look at that? I just want to get as much use out of this person as possible and I'm afraid if we expose that person they'll be the kill.
The Oracle was one-shot. It's best for them to claim sometime today. Also, Vote: yuma for trying to stop people from claiming something they should (trying to make them not claim the oracle).
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Why is creating two semi-ICs bad?
I just didn't like being forced to claim in LoTR and I don't like pushing somebody else to do it. If they didn't find scum then give them another shot to find them. Maybe we could all give reads at the end of the day so if the cop/oracle does die we can look at that? I just want to get as much use out of this person as possible and I'm afraid if we expose that person they'll be the kill.
The Oracle was one-shot. It's best for them to claim sometime today. Also, Vote: yuma for trying to stop people from claiming something they should (trying to make them not claim the oracle).
It's one-shot, but we don't know for sure that they used it yet, which would be an excellent reason not to claim.
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Why is creating two semi-ICs bad?
I just didn't like being forced to claim in LoTR and I don't like pushing somebody else to do it. If they didn't find scum then give them another shot to find them. Maybe we could all give reads at the end of the day so if the cop/oracle does die we can look at that? I just want to get as much use out of this person as possible and I'm afraid if we expose that person they'll be the kill.
The Oracle was one-shot. It's best for them to claim sometime today. Also, Vote: yuma for trying to stop people from claiming something they should (trying to make them not claim the oracle).
dude read my posts! I never said never claim. I said wait a couple of RL days so we can get an idea of where everyone stands w/o knowing what the oracle knows. That is standard cop play in mafia games.
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and I am automatically adverse to someone claiming just because one player has decided that it is the proper decision. I would have greatly preferred you say something like, "I know someone obtained Oracle, (explain what it is) do we think that the Oracle should claim" and let us have a discussion about it. You might think you are an IC, but right now you aren't, and as such I--and rightly so--am being very cautious about doing anything, or anything that anyone else, you suggests.
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Why is creating two semi-ICs bad?
I just didn't like being forced to claim in LoTR and I don't like pushing somebody else to do it. If they didn't find scum then give them another shot to find them. Maybe we could all give reads at the end of the day so if the cop/oracle does die we can look at that? I just want to get as much use out of this person as possible and I'm afraid if we expose that person they'll be the kill.
The Oracle was one-shot. It's best for them to claim sometime today. Also, Vote: yuma for trying to stop people from claiming something they should (trying to make them not claim the oracle).
dude read my posts! I never said never claim. I said wait a couple of RL days so we can get an idea of where everyone stands w/o knowing what the oracle knows. That is standard cop play in mafia games.
Oh, sorry, when you first read that I thought you were saying wait a couple of game days. Unvote.
Why is creating two semi-ICs bad?
I just didn't like being forced to claim in LoTR and I don't like pushing somebody else to do it. If they didn't find scum then give them another shot to find them. Maybe we could all give reads at the end of the day so if the cop/oracle does die we can look at that? I just want to get as much use out of this person as possible and I'm afraid if we expose that person they'll be the kill.
The Oracle was one-shot. It's best for them to claim sometime today. Also, Vote: yuma for trying to stop people from claiming something they should (trying to make them not claim the oracle).
It's one-shot, but we don't know for sure that they used it yet, which would be an excellent reason not to claim.
I think I mentioned the fact that they might not have used it yet it when I first suggested them claim.
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Okay so I botched up the situation with me pretty bad, but I have figure out how to best deal with it. I'm still trying to figure out how much I should reveal. Baisically, someone interacted with me last night, I am sure this person should know who they are. I did what I did because I had no way of knowing if you were scum or town. Now with what I have done, claiming and all this, I have to assume you are town and hope for the best. Bottom line I am leaving and you will be successful tonight. The only reason you should say anything on this matter is if you did something or something happened and you can no longer be successful.
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Well, we could possibly catch liars, since there's bound to be overlap in where we've all been. No one refuted any of Jimmmmm's map-claim, for example. Had anything he said been a lie, and one of us had been in that room, we could have confirmed it as such.
We know scum already knows the entire layout. We know that a power exists for others to learn the layout. It's the 3rd day at this point, so we've all possibly explored a fair amount. I don't think the negatives (giving too much info to scum) are there.
Claiming what was available in each room is probably more dangerous, but claiming what we know about what the map looks like could be helpful.
Ok, so reading this post again (and I want to make sure everyone does now) I find two things very odd. Let's break it down.
We know scum already knows the entire layout. We know that a power exists for others to learn the layout. It's the 3rd day at this point, so we've all possibly explored a fair amount. I don't think the negatives (giving too much info to scum) are there.
This is the key to my first point. I don't think there was a consesus as to if it was scum that bought the Treasure Map. The PMs in the opening post mentions that scum share map vision. Nowhere does it say that they automatically gain the whole layout. So no. We don't all know that scum already knows the entire layout.
But let's assume that they do, or that they at least have explored a fair amount of the bank. Let's move to my second point.
Well, we could possibly catch liars, since there's bound to be overlap in where we've all been. No one refuted any of Jimmmmm's map-claim, for example. Had anything he said been a lie, and one of us had been in that room, we could have confirmed it as such.
If scum know the whole layout of the bank, why lie? The only thing we would get out of it is confused townies or townies trying to not give away their hand, but being pressed to do so. To claim in order to find liars is in the scenario you point out a VERY ANTI TOWN thing to do.
As I said this doesn't make any sense to me at all. Saying we could catch liars while no scum would lie just sounds ridiculous to me. Also, I'm still not convinced that it was scum who bought the TM.
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Vote: ashersky
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Also, Jimm, if you don't mind me asking. Which night was the TM bought?
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Oh I was just explained some information from robz, now I don't know what to do if the person I interacted with last night was scum I need to repeat what happened last night. Well, I guess it depends on what happens between now and then grrr, if your a townie who interested with me then I say you use your judgment of me and maybe do something else.
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I believe I have changed my mind and am going to repeat last nights actions so its up to you what happens.
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Vote: Lekkit
He has been lurking, and I think his post against ashersky is trying to deflect.
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Deflect from what?
Also, do you think I'm wrong? If so, why?
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Gahhh, sorry everyone. Last post on this matter, if the person I interacted with is scum I'm probably going to be dead tonight, so The most pro town play is for me to leave.
I will catch up on other topics and start scum hunting in a few hours
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Deflect from what?
Also, do you think I'm wrong? If so, why?
Some people were getting suspicious of you earlier. Also, you may not be wrong, I'm not sure.
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I'm going to go with Vote: Lekkit. He lurkied inMAII and was scum and I could see him doing it again. Him or Jorbles are my preferred lynches for today.
I think the owner of the Oracle should claim. There's nothing worse than a Cop dying knowing who's cleared of scum and even worse, who's scum. I also believe sudgy's claim, if he were scum, it would take just one move to find out if he was lying or not.
oh and vote: archetype
this is what sudgy was talking about. but the irony is that I felt that arch's vote was much more deflective than Lekkit's. hence my vote on arch.
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@sudgy: I would actually like you to take a stance on my position against ash.
Regarding the suspicion of me. If one vote for hardly any reason is considered suspicion enough that it's deflecting when I find something on another player, I don't really know how to respond. It's not like there was a wagon forming on me or something. The reason I was really confused was that I thought that sudgy had the most votes on him (which when I look back found was wrong). And deflecting from him would make me scummy only if he was scum. And that would be a pretty weird accusation.
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Jorbles had some suspicion of you (although he voted for Archetype).
Anyway, regarding ashersky, I don't think it's a scumtell. It makes him a little suspicious, but not too much.
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Jorbles had some suspicion of you (although he voted for Archetype).
Anyway, regarding ashersky, I don't think it's a scumtell. It makes him a little suspicious, but not too much.
Just general lurkiness suspicion. I have no reason to actively suspect Lekkit I think he just hasn't been participating much, which is scummy. I have little to suspect him for because he hasn't really participated much, but that lack of participation is suspicious in and of itself.
I would consider lynching him if everyone thought that was best, I don't think it's the best plan for our lynch today though.
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With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is May 6 at 7:00 PM.[/b]
So the day started April 11 at ~ 2 forum time. I would suggest a soft deadline for one week later, April 18 at the same time (2 pm forum time). I don't think we want to take the time to go into the next weekend.
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With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is May 6 at 7:00 PM.[/b]
So the day started April 11 at ~ 2 forum time. I would suggest a soft deadline for one week later, April 18 at the same time (2 pm forum time). I don't think we want to take the time to go into the next weekend.
I can get behind this.
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With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is May 6 at 7:00 PM.[/b]
So the day started April 11 at ~ 2 forum time. I would suggest a soft deadline for one week later, April 18 at the same time (2 pm forum time). I don't think we want to take the time to go into the next weekend.
Could we push it back to the 19th? I will be v/la the 17th and 18th with zero access.
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Also, Jimm, if you don't mind me asking. Which night was the TM bought?
No idea. All I know is that it was gone when I arrived ini the room.
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Well, we could possibly catch liars, since there's bound to be overlap in where we've all been. No one refuted any of Jimmmmm's map-claim, for example. Had anything he said been a lie, and one of us had been in that room, we could have confirmed it as such.
We know scum already knows the entire layout. We know that a power exists for others to learn the layout. It's the 3rd day at this point, so we've all possibly explored a fair amount. I don't think the negatives (giving too much info to scum) are there.
Claiming what was available in each room is probably more dangerous, but claiming what we know about what the map looks like could be helpful.
Ok, so reading this post again (and I want to make sure everyone does now) I find two things very odd. Let's break it down.
We know scum already knows the entire layout. We know that a power exists for others to learn the layout. It's the 3rd day at this point, so we've all possibly explored a fair amount. I don't think the negatives (giving too much info to scum) are there.
This is the key to my first point. I don't think there was a consesus as to if it was scum that bought the Treasure Map. The PMs in the opening post mentions that scum share map vision. Nowhere does it say that they automatically gain the whole layout. So no. We don't all know that scum already knows the entire layout.
But let's assume that they do, or that they at least have explored a fair amount of the bank. Let's move to my second point.
Well, we could possibly catch liars, since there's bound to be overlap in where we've all been. No one refuted any of Jimmmmm's map-claim, for example. Had anything he said been a lie, and one of us had been in that room, we could have confirmed it as such.
If scum know the whole layout of the bank, why lie? The only thing we would get out of it is confused townies or townies trying to not give away their hand, but being pressed to do so. To claim in order to find liars is in the scenario you point out a VERY ANTI TOWN thing to do.
As I said this doesn't make any sense to me at all. Saying we could catch liars while no scum would lie just sounds ridiculous to me. Also, I'm still not convinced that it was scum who bought the TM.
Had you, you know, been around all game instead of lurking through it, you would have seen the multiple times its been mentioned that scum has more info and can see the map. We also know that the TM exists so town may have the same info now. We also know there have been multiples of cards in the bank.
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With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is May 6 at 7:00 PM.[/b]
So the day started April 11 at ~ 2 forum time. I would suggest a soft deadline for one week later, April 18 at the same time (2 pm forum time). I don't think we want to take the time to go into the next weekend.
Could we push it back to the 19th? I will be v/la the 17th and 18th with zero access.
I suppose we could do that. But if we do Friday we need the deadline to be morning or mid-morning forum time... The earlier the better Friday as Friday nights forum time are dead around here lately.
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With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is May 6 at 7:00 PM.[/b]
So the day started April 11 at ~ 2 forum time. I would suggest a soft deadline for one week later, April 18 at the same time (2 pm forum time). I don't think we want to take the time to go into the next weekend.
Could we push it back to the 19th? I will be v/la the 17th and 18th with zero access.
I suppose we could do that. But if we do Friday we need the deadline to be morning or mid-morning forum time... The earlier the better Friday as Friday nights forum time are dead around here lately.
I totally understand and support that and certainly don't expect the game to not go forward because of me but still wanted to ask. If everybody else is in favor of the 18th, I will just have to cast my final vote on the 16th and go from there.
Also, trying to reread mcmc, he seems weird.
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I think it is weird town!mcmc though. That idea he floated about knowing then not then deciding the tell and not tell...too much confusion to be a scum gambit.
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Had you, you know, been around all game instead of lurking through it, you would have seen the multiple times its been mentioned that scum has more info and can see the map. We also know that the TM exists so town may have the same info now. We also know there have been multiples of cards in the bank.
Show me proof that they do. All I can find is that they share map vision. Nothing about them knowing the whole map. And even if they do, why do you think they would lie about the layout of the bank?
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Had you, you know, been around all game instead of lurking through it, you would have seen the multiple times its been mentioned that scum has more info and can see the map. We also know that the TM exists so town may have the same info now. We also know there have been multiples of cards in the bank.
Show me proof that they do. All I can find is that they share map vision. Nothing about them knowing the whole map. And even if they do, why do you think they would lie about the layout of the bank?
Only scum could prove it, clearly. The assumption we've all had all game is that they can. I think it was originally posited by mail-mi.
I don't know why they would lie. Maybe there is something they want to keep town from knowing?
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And assuming something is the same as knowing? You still seem unsure about why they would lie. I think it's more likely that a townie would lie than scum. And yet that was your reason for why we should map claim.
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And assuming something is the same as knowing? You still seem unsure about why they would lie. I think it's more likely that a townie would lie than scum. And yet that was your reason for why we should map claim.
The reason I suggest X claiming in every game I play is because it is always bad for scum. They have to lie, or risk being caught as scum.
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I really don't think map claiming will catch scum there is no reason for them to lie, and they could just give a minimal portion of the map. Also that mail-mi lynch was terrible, I supported only because he said he would self vote which is unacceptable. I still don't understand why we didn't lynch jimm/insom/ozzle. All better lynches in my opinion.
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Vote: mcmc
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Also that mail-mi lynch was terrible, I supported only because he said he would self vote which is unacceptable.
For this gem.
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Hmm yeah, doesn't seem to be saying that it's a terrible lynch here:
Ugh, I really don't know about a mail-mi lynch, but I guess the way he's not fighting against it reads scummy to me, he relatively new and knows we have a tendency to attack people tha are overly defensive. So I think he is purposefully playing cool as he thinks that will save him. I think scum mail-mi thinks of this plan. So I could possibly vote for him if the deadline approaches
Oh the Jimm wagon is gone, okay ill reread mail-mi when I get on my computer later today, and of course ill announce intent before doing anything.
(bolding mine)
Now the bolded part could just be a general comment about mail-mi's playstyle, but to me it reads like mcmc is saying "I think he's scum". So, distancing himself from a lynch and then trying to do the "Towny" thing of giving intent, and then following that the next day with calling it terrible ("that mail-mi lynch", as if he had nothing to do with it).
And of course this happened before mail-mi said he would self-vote, and it certainly looks like pre-empting support.
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Also that mail-mi lynch was terrible, I supported only because he said he would self vote which is unacceptable.
For this gem.
I see your point, but I have something of the same feeling that mcmc is expressing and said as such a day or so ago.
I do regret moving onto the mail-mi wagon. Looking back that should be obvious, but at the time I should have known better. Did know better in fact but was so frustrated by the lack of movement and the stalling everytime we got close to someone off wagon.
It was a bad lynch. We know that certainly now because he flipped town. But it was also a bad lynch from the start and we need to hold those--including myself and mcmc--who were participants accountable for it. But just because someone says it was a bad lynch retroactively doesn't make them scum. I am interested in doing more of what Jimmm did above in analyzing how people joined the mcmc wagon and will probably be something that I do later this weekend. If someone else wants to do it before, they are welcome to, however.
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Guys I don't know what to say, I pushed the jim and insom lynch so hard I burned myself out, go back and check. After those lynches dissipated my participation dropped dramatically. The quote was me saying while I don't think mail-mi is scum the way he is reacting to the wagon on him reads very scummy to me. Now add the fact that he self hammered and he was playing crazy scummy toward the end.
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If you're Town mcmc, I think I can relate to what you're feeling. In DS9 I got burned out a bit on big cases on Eevee and shraeye, and they both turned out Town, and you actually, and for a while I thought you were Town as well, and I just didn't really know which way to go after that. On the other hand, this is a bit different in that if you actually think one of us is scum you can keep arguing for it and providing evidence.
Also, your thoughts on mail-mi sound like how I felt about the Cuzz lynch in DS9. For ages I thought he was Town, and then he started acting really scummy in my opinion, and I was really torn. But then, I didn't think he was such a bad lynch in the end, just one which I disagreed with.
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Hi guys, sorry ive not been around mch, not posting much due to illness, but i am reading.
I think these are the topics that need commenting on:
Sudgy not a good lynch obviously.
The Oracle should not claim unless claiming actually stops a lynch they know is wrong (so if they got two townies they should stay silent unless those people are being lynched.) or if they found scum, wait to watch intections.
It should be noted though that just buying the Oracle should NOT be given townie points, scum would be just as likely to buy it to keep it out of our hands.
For those people that joined the Mail-mi wagon because they felt it was the only viable lynch.....now you know how i felt day1 (and got so much heat for it)
Mcmc, yeah im leaning that scum way on him a bit, but not massively.
Happy with the soft deadline!
Think hats covered everything, as i said, will still be reading just not posting as much on forums in general tilli feel better.
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Had you, you know, been around all game instead of lurking through it, you would have seen the multiple times its been mentioned that scum has more info and can see the map. We also know that the TM exists so town may have the same info now. We also know there have been multiples of cards in the bank.
Show me proof that they do. All I can find is that they share map vision. Nothing about them knowing the whole map. And even if they do, why do you think they would lie about the layout of the bank?
Only scum could prove it, clearly. The assumption we've all had all game is that they can. I think it was originally posited by mail-mi.
I don't know why they would lie. Maybe there is something they want to keep town from knowing?
I agree with ash that scum clearly have more info on the map, for a start there was 4 of them moving around and comparing notes, thats bound to give them a massive picture, plus there was jimmm and mail-mi's map claims that added to hat knowledge. If scum do not have a pretty good layout of all the bank id be surprised!
Although im not sure they would lie much, there are very few lies they could actually get away with, because no matter what they have seen, town will probably have seen it as well (except i know there is at least one area town can't go, because i tried and got told i couldnt)
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(except i know there is at least one area town can't go, because i tried and got told i couldnt)
please explain this further. and I can't believe I am saying this... but please be a little more specific if you would. Especially regarding the "tried" part of your sentence.
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(except i know there is at least one area town can't go, because i tried and got told i couldnt)
please explain this further. and I can't believe I am saying this... but please be a little more specific if you would. Especially regarding the "tried" part of your sentence.
It's fine, not giving anything away.
I found a Red Room, for scum killed players (which is mentioned in the beginning post) I thought I could go in there and talk to the people, turns out I couldn't.
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(except i know there is at least one area town can't go, because i tried and got told i couldnt)
please explain this further. and I can't believe I am saying this... but please be a little more specific if you would. Especially regarding the "tried" part of your sentence.
It's fine, not giving anything away.
I found a Red Room, for scum killed players (which is mentioned in the beginning post) I thought I could go in there and talk to the people, turns out I couldn't.
sorry, can you explain how you tried a little bit more?
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Yes.....paraphrasing Mod response of course
"Robz, can I move into the Red Room please"
"The Red Room is a Captured Vault where the scum nightkill players go, you do not have the right equipment to go there"
So obviously there is something out there that lets town go into those rooms (Opening post says scum can always see the QT's of those rooms, I thought it might be handy if someone in town had that access as well, as implied by the first post)
Again, none of this is really new information, all mentioned in the opening posts, apart from possibly the fact that town players need an item to get in there, but I've not seen one yet.
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thanks, the reason I asked is that when I entered a room that was next to a red one a while back I immediately received a PM from Robz explaining what was in the room I was currently in as well as saying that I wasn't able to go into the Red Room. What I found curious is that it appears that you attempted to go into the room and then received the response from Robz whereas I just received an immediate response saying I couldn't go in w/o my even asking to do so.
However, from what you said it appears to me that rather than this being suspicious there was just a very slight inconsistency from Robz in terms of how he modded information about the red room because something you said above makes me believe what you are saying is true, and thus have a little bit more of a town read on you.
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I believe someone has the equipment to go into that room. I am not sure if what happened to me happened to anyone else, but I would assume it did. I actually think scum players would not have had this event happen to them. It is possible we create IC's by claiming if this event occured to you. If we want to say nothing about this event that is fine, I have made mistakes about what I have claimed so far so I am going to let you guys decide. But with nothing else said I tend to think this may have something to do with what ozzle was talking about earlier.
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The Oracle should not claim unless claiming actually stops a lynch they know is wrong (so if they got two townies they should stay silent unless those people are being lynched.) or if they found scum, wait to watch intections.
This is kinda were I was going, however, because apparently the oracle is a 1-shot there are no more opportunities for the power to be used during the night. And we don't want the oracle to go to his grave via NK with the information that he has been given--and given the amount of people that have discussed this I think mafia might have a reasonable chance of hitting him tonight--therefore it is probably best that the oracle claim before this day is over. Or at least everyone should make a list of scum to town (the oracle could put the two he investigated as the most town) so that if the oracle does die during the night we can go back and reference that and not lose that valuable info?
And you a right claiming oracle does not guarantee town and that is something we will have to take into consideration, but I regardless of the oracle's alignment I would be more inclined to give townie status to those that were investigated. However, my bet is that if scum bought the oracle, they just won't claim it and won't have used it and just stashed it away to keep it from town.
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I'm not going to tell you that you shouldn't read anything into interactions like "What sort of response did Robz give X when X did Y?" But... there is a lot for me to keep track of this game, and I have been and certainly will be again inconsistent in how I deal with two players doing the same thing, regardless of alignment.
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The Oracle should not claim unless claiming actually stops a lynch they know is wrong (so if they got two townies they should stay silent unless those people are being lynched.) or if they found scum, wait to watch intections.
This is kinda were I was going, however, because apparently the oracle is a 1-shot there are no more opportunities for the power to be used during the night. And we don't want the oracle to go to his grave via NK with the information that he has been given--and given the amount of people that have discussed this I think mafia might have a reasonable chance of hitting him tonight--therefore it is probably best that the oracle claim before this day is over. Or at least everyone should make a list of scum to town (the oracle could put the two he investigated as the most town) so that if the oracle does die during the night we can go back and reference that and not lose that valuable info?
And you a right claiming oracle does not guarantee town and that is something we will have to take into consideration, but I regardless of the oracle's alignment I would be more inclined to give townie status to those that were investigated. However, my bet is that if scum bought the oracle, they just won't claim it and won't have used it and just stashed it away to keep it from town.
If the player who bought Oracle dies at night how would we know? We haven't found out what items other people have bought when they died at night. Unless there's something about the Oracle that I don't understand. I haven't seen any items that say they'll show up when I die.
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The Oracle should not claim unless claiming actually stops a lynch they know is wrong (so if they got two townies they should stay silent unless those people are being lynched.) or if they found scum, wait to watch intections.
This is kinda were I was going, however, because apparently the oracle is a 1-shot there are no more opportunities for the power to be used during the night. And we don't want the oracle to go to his grave via NK with the information that he has been given--and given the amount of people that have discussed this I think mafia might have a reasonable chance of hitting him tonight--therefore it is probably best that the oracle claim before this day is over. Or at least everyone should make a list of scum to town (the oracle could put the two he investigated as the most town) so that if the oracle does die during the night we can go back and reference that and not lose that valuable info?
And you a right claiming oracle does not guarantee town and that is something we will have to take into consideration, but I regardless of the oracle's alignment I would be more inclined to give townie status to those that were investigated. However, my bet is that if scum bought the oracle, they just won't claim it and won't have used it and just stashed it away to keep it from town.
If the player who bought Oracle dies at night how would we know? We haven't found out what items other people have bought when they died at night. Unless there's something about the Oracle that I don't understand. I haven't seen any items that say they'll show up when I die.
you are right, I overlooked that. Oracle should claim today before the day ends then, if they used that power tonight. We don't want to lose that information!
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Hi guys, internet is finally back up so I'm ready to go. I'll be rereading a bit, mcmc seems off to me the more he posts so he'll be one of my rereads and Lekkit will probably be another. I've been following along on my phone but always do better with a computer so it may be awhile. I'll try to have something up later tonight.
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Im interested in this scheme mcmc has to seemingly make IC's...as long as it makes more than a couple.....although interested to know why it wasnt brought up before...but I suppose I can withold judgement on that part for now...
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Yes.....paraphrasing Mod response of course
"Robz, can I move into the Red Room please"
"The Red Room is a Captured Vault where the scum nightkill players go, you do not have the right equipment to go there"
So obviously there is something out there that lets town go into those rooms (Opening post says scum can always see the QT's of those rooms, I thought it might be handy if someone in town had that access as well, as implied by the first post)
Again, none of this is really new information, all mentioned in the opening posts, apart from possibly the fact that town players need an item to get in there, but I've not seen one yet.
thanks, the reason I asked is that when I entered a room that was next to a red one a while back I immediately received a PM from Robz explaining what was in the room I was currently in as well as saying that I wasn't able to go into the Red Room. What I found curious is that it appears that you attempted to go into the room and then received the response from Robz whereas I just received an immediate response saying I couldn't go in w/o my even asking to do so.
However, from what you said it appears to me that rather than this being suspicious there was just a very slight inconsistency from Robz in terms of how he modded information about the red room because something you said above makes me believe what you are saying is true, and thus have a little bit more of a town read on you.
All: the equipment is called a "scum key." I know because I also asked to enter a red room, too, and was told that one of those was needed to enter.
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Robz SPECIFICALLY told you you needed a scum key?
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Robz SPECIFICALLY told you you needed a scum key?
Yes.
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Im interested in this scheme mcmc has to seemingly make IC's...as long as it makes more than a couple.....although interested to know why it wasnt brought up before...but I suppose I can withold judgement on that part for now...
Well the more I think about it, the more I can't tell whether or not it makes sense to have happened to only town players or both scum and town players. So I'll claim what I know and see what people think. Robz found me in the bank one night and I got to choose an item to get from him. I believe we then went on to other players and I believe I was the first. So I know what all the items were an if we think this could only have happened to town players, the other players could say the items they got. The scum key was an item I won't say whether or not I or it. Also I reread the pm, and someone may have gotten an item befor me. So if we want to do this people should first claim they encountered robz and how many items he had, then we claim the item we got I order so we know if anyone is lying. From my perspective the claim is somewhat harmless especially if noone says what the item they got does.
Again if we think this could happen to scum noone do it.
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Why do we think it would have only happened to townies?
I've met no Robz myself.
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Im interested in this scheme mcmc has to seemingly make IC's...as long as it makes more than a couple.....although interested to know why it wasnt brought up before...but I suppose I can withold judgement on that part for now...
Well the more I think about it, the more I can't tell whether or not it makes sense to have happened to only town players or both scum and town players. So I'll claim what I know and see what people think. Robz found me in the bank one night and I got to choose an item to get from him. I believe we then went on to other players and I believe I was the first. So I know what all the items were an if we think this could only have happened to town players, the other players could say the items they got. The scum key was an item I won't say whether or not I or it. Also I reread the pm, and someone may have gotten an item befor me. So if we want to do this people should first claim they encountered robz and how many items he had, then we claim the item we got I order so we know if anyone is lying. From my perspective the claim is somewhat harmless especially if noone says what the item they got does.
Again if we think this could happen to scum noone do it.
Interesting.
I think a difficult thing to figure out here is whether in the flavor world Robz has created, would his banker character know who the Mountebanks are? If not, I think Robz the Banker would run into any player, regardless of alignment. If Robz the Banker knows who the bad guys are, he wouldn't offer stuff to them.
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Why do we think it would have only happened to townies?
I've met no Robz myself.
Lies! /DC
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So D1, post 390: Moral of the story is lio looks scummy.
I've had a super busy weekend. Don't know if I'll be able to post much tomorrow either. Should be back at tuesday, if nothing else happens. I think lio looks pretty bad, but I'm not totally convinced he's scum.
#469: Lio is super town based on something that happened before I said Lio looks scummy...Oh and Kooshie looks scummy for her defense of the case this person I suddenly decided is townie presented.
I think liopoil is town. Based solely on the fact that he came up with a scum team theory day 1. I'm pretty sure scum would like to deflect their wagon onto someone else, but not throw around conspiracy theories. Not day 1.
I don't really know if kooshie just misunderstand lio, but so far, her defense against a pretty solid (for day 1) case hasn't really been good. It hasn't even been a defense against the case, but something else.
#474 - Seems a bit to me like he's coaching Kooshie, he repeatedly points out that she needs to start posting content and compares her current play to his in Buffy.
#481 is finally his vote on Kooshie which places him safely in the middle of the pack.
Then not much for the rest of D1. D2...
#1116 is right after Jimmmmm was put at L-almost lynched for 1 of the 18 times that day. To sum it up, he doesn't agree with it but says it would be an informative lynch because of everybody's views on Jimmmmm, he then gives a wishy washy hedgey opinion of him. I believe he gives this sort of read because he knows Jimmmmm's alignment and doesn't want to give away that he knew it after the flip.
#1300 is the first time he's actually given "reads" this whole game. I say "reads" because they're all mostly neutral.
#1430, he votes for mail-mi (again, middle of the pack) without reason and only after that lynch started to gain steam.
That's all I have for tonight, mcmc is tomorrow but I'm comfortable with this for now.
Vote: Lekkit
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Im interested in this scheme mcmc has to seemingly make IC's...as long as it makes more than a couple.....although interested to know why it wasnt brought up before...but I suppose I can withold judgement on that part for now...
Well the more I think about it, the more I can't tell whether or not it makes sense to have happened to only town players or both scum and town players. So I'll claim what I know and see what people think. Robz found me in the bank one night and I got to choose an item to get from him. I believe we then went on to other players and I believe I was the first. So I know what all the items were an if we think this could only have happened to town players, the other players could say the items they got. The scum key was an item I won't say whether or not I or it. Also I reread the pm, and someone may have gotten an item befor me. So if we want to do this people should first claim they encountered robz and how many items he had, then we claim the item we got I order so we know if anyone is lying. From my perspective the claim is somewhat harmless especially if noone says what the item they got does.
Again if we think this could happen to scum noone do it.
Interesting.
I think a difficult thing to figure out here is whether in the flavor world Robz has created, would his banker character know who the Mountebanks are? If not, I think Robz the Banker would run into any player, regardless of alignment. If Robz the Banker knows who the bad guys are, he wouldn't offer stuff to them.
yes, I am not a fan of this claiming mechanism. It could falsely create an IC in scum. The speculation is uncertain and could leave people with good stuff vulnerable at night. You say that they wouldn't claim what stuff does, but at this point I imagine scum knows what a lot of the roles do already just from exploring the bank.
Mostly I think we are distracting ourselves from scum hunting. I still need to do it myself and will do it tomorrow, because everytime I come on to read this I end up responding to theory stuff instead of going back and performing a reread, and I am guessing that I am not the only one doing this based on the lack of true scum hunting going on.
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Okay, consensus is we should drop the theory mess I keep getting into an scum hunt. I like the plan and will start on it in the morning.
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Okay, consensus is we should drop the theory mess I keep getting into an scum hunt. I like the plan and will start on it in the morning.
raerae, not willing to vote mcmc yet?
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Vote Count 3.3
sudgy (1) -- Insomniac
Archetype (2) -- Jorbles, yuma
Lekkit (3) -- Archetype, sudgy, raerae
ashersky (1) -- Lekkit
mcmcsalot (1) -- Eevee
Not Voting (4) -- ashersky, Ozle, mcmcsalot, Jimm,
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. There are 22 days remaining. Deadline is May 6 at 7:00 PM.
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vote: Lekkit
This is a wagon vote. He's lurked, he's swooped in with a little analysis when called on it, not much else at all memorable.
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Im interested in this scheme mcmc has to seemingly make IC's...as long as it makes more than a couple.....although interested to know why it wasnt brought up before...but I suppose I can withold judgement on that part for now...
Well the more I think about it, the more I can't tell whether or not it makes sense to have happened to only town players or both scum and town players. So I'll claim what I know and see what people think. Robz found me in the bank one night and I got to choose an item to get from him. I believe we then went on to other players and I believe I was the first. So I know what all the items were an if we think this could only have happened to town players, the other players could say the items they got. The scum key was an item I won't say whether or not I or it. Also I reread the pm, and someone may have gotten an item befor me. So if we want to do this people should first claim they encountered robz and how many items he had, then we claim the item we got I order so we know if anyone is lying. From my perspective the claim is somewhat harmless especially if noone says what the item they got does.
Again if we think this could happen to scum noone do it.
I'm confused.
How did you go from thinking it could create IC's to this?
Theres nothing there that I can see that would make IC's other than a suspicion Robz wouldnt visit Mountebanks. It's possible, but I wouldn't bet a large amount of money on it!
The problem is, if you were first, and you were town, and scum have also been visited, they would know whether you took this scum key right?
So, my thoughts based on what we know....
You were the first person to be visitied by Robz
Ashersky was the second. Thats how Robz 'told' him there is a scum key.
How many items? 3 or 4?
I think if you have used the item, its pretty safe to claim. it cant have been earth shattering if this is the first time you mention it
Although can't have been that good an item if you've not used it yet, or it must be a very edge case one! Probably something from the alchemy set, or maybe you have to wait till Guilds to use it.
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Did a quick re-read of Lekkit. The only thing that really stood out to me was him saying he'd support my lynch even though he had a strong Townread on me. Generally it is super bad Town play to lynch someone you think is Town unless you can benefit a lot in other ways because of. Lekkit, you mentioned a couple of times that lynching me would be very informational, and that was why you would support it. What would you conclude from my flip, whether it was Town or scum?
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Im interested in this scheme mcmc has to seemingly make IC's...as long as it makes more than a couple.....although interested to know why it wasnt brought up before...but I suppose I can withold judgement on that part for now...
Well the more I think about it, the more I can't tell whether or not it makes sense to have happened to only town players or both scum and town players. So I'll claim what I know and see what people think. Robz found me in the bank one night and I got to choose an item to get from him. I believe we then went on to other players and I believe I was the first. So I know what all the items were an if we think this could only have happened to town players, the other players could say the items they got. The scum key was an item I won't say whether or not I or it. Also I reread the pm, and someone may have gotten an item befor me. So if we want to do this people should first claim they encountered robz and how many items he had, then we claim the item we got I order so we know if anyone is lying. From my perspective the claim is somewhat harmless especially if noone says what the item they got does.
Again if we think this could happen to scum noone do it.
I'm confused.
How did you go from thinking it could create IC's to this?
Theres nothing there that I can see that would make IC's other than a suspicion Robz wouldnt visit Mountebanks. It's possible, but I wouldn't bet a large amount of money on it!
The problem is, if you were first, and you were town, and scum have also been visited, they would know whether you took this scum key right?
So, my thoughts based on what we know....
You were the first person to be visitied by Robz
Ashersky was the second. Thats how Robz 'told' him there is a scum key.
How many items? 3 or 4?
I think if you have used the item, its pretty safe to claim. it cant have been earth shattering if this is the first time you mention it
Although can't have been that good an item if you've not used it yet, or it must be a very edge case one! Probably something from the alchemy set, or maybe you have to wait till Guilds to use it.
Why would you think Robz visited me?
I asked how much it cost to enter a red room.
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Because you knew the exact terming of the scum key, that Mcmc says is included in this Robz visit.
Neither myself, nor Yuma knew that (Or at least I am assuming Yuma didn't)
Was just an assumption based on the info I had at hand.
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Because you knew the exact terming of the scum key, that Mcmc says is included in this Robz visit.
Neither myself, nor Yuma knew that (Or at least I am assuming Yuma didn't)
Was just an assumption based on the info I had at hand.
Well, he said you need a scum key to enter the red room, so that's how I knew the term. Robz has yet to visit me.
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Because you knew the exact terming of the scum key, that Mcmc says is included in this Robz visit.
Neither myself, nor Yuma knew that (Or at least I am assuming Yuma didn't)
Was just an assumption based on the info I had at hand.
nope. Robz told me nothing about a scum key. Despite what robz said above about modding inconstancies this raises a red--HA!--flag to me about ash in regard to the red room. I was told I didn't have the right equipment, Ozle was told the same. It seems somewhat unlikely that Robz would change his policy regarding how specific to be about this "equipment" when it came to you. what night did you learn this info Ozle and ash?... hmmm maybe that is giving away too much information. So maybe don't answer that last question.
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Yeah, im not sharing which night.
But mine definitely said 'equipment'. And what Robz said was about the manner in which he told people , i dont think he would have given specific information out to one player and not another.
This is why I thought Ashersky had seen the same event Mcmc, otherwise it doesn't make sense to me.
Are you sure you don't want to rescind the statement Robz didn't visit you Ask?
Because otherwise it looks like Robz visited someone you have had a discussion with, possibly in a scum QT...?
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Did a quick re-read of Lekkit. The only thing that really stood out to me was him saying he'd support my lynch even though he had a strong Townread on me. Generally it is super bad Town play to lynch someone you think is Town unless you can benefit a lot in other ways because of. Lekkit, you mentioned a couple of times that lynching me would be very informational, and that was why you would support it. What would you conclude from my flip, whether it was Town or scum?
First, I would make a list of who thought you were scummy who thought so with reasons and a list of who didn't. And this is what would make it more informational than, say mail-mi. A lot of people argued as to whether or not they thought you were scum.
Second, I would compare the lynch wagons to see who was on which and who was off. If you were mafia, I would compare who was off your lynch and Kooshie's. Those people would probably be the ones looking worst. If you were town, I would instead compare who was off Kooshie's but on yours. Especially the first-middle voters of your wagon.
Then I would compare the lists.
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But you can do all of that with just about any lynch. Surely it's much better to do that with someone you think is scum than someone you think is Town. I mean yeah, it was unfortunate that we had to resort to a soft-deadline lynch on mail-mi, but there still had to be people saying he was scummy. What would make my lynch in particular informational, and whose alignments in particular would you have a better chance of deducing if I flipped Town or scum?
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Regarding ash/myself/ozle I think I might have discovered a solution that would explain everything amicably between the three of us. But first I want ash to explain a little bit more in detail how he found out about the scum key, if he is willing, rather than me giving him an answer that he could use to explain it.
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So D1, post 390: Moral of the story is lio looks scummy.
I've had a super busy weekend. Don't know if I'll be able to post much tomorrow either. Should be back at tuesday, if nothing else happens. I think lio looks pretty bad, but I'm not totally convinced he's scum.
#469: Lio is super town based on something that happened before I said Lio looks scummy...Oh and Kooshie looks scummy for her defense of the case this person I suddenly decided is townie presented.
Don't you find yourself reading something and then finding something that you missed the first time when you reread?
I think liopoil is town. Based solely on the fact that he came up with a scum team theory day 1. I'm pretty sure scum would like to deflect their wagon onto someone else, but not throw around conspiracy theories. Not day 1.
I don't really know if kooshie just misunderstand lio, but so far, her defense against a pretty solid (for day 1) case hasn't really been good. It hasn't even been a defense against the case, but something else.
#474 - Seems a bit to me like he's coaching Kooshie, he repeatedly points out that she needs to start posting content and compares her current play to his in Buffy.
Pointing out why something looks bad is coaching now?
#481 is finally his vote on Kooshie which places him safely in the middle of the pack.
Then not much for the rest of D1. D2...
Because town is never in the middle of a wagon?
#1116 is right after Jimmmmm was put at L-almost lynched for 1 of the 18 times that day. To sum it up, he doesn't agree with it but says it would be an informative lynch because of everybody's views on Jimmmmm, he then gives a wishy washy hedgey opinion of him. I believe he gives this sort of read because he knows Jimmmmm's alignment and doesn't want to give away that he knew it after the flip.
And after thinking about it I settled for Jimm probably being town. And I still think that. Sometimes you need time to think. But I guess only scum does that, since reads are always clear to townies.
#1430, he votes for mail-mi (again, middle of the pack) without reason and only after that lynch started to gain steam.
Steam as in one vote the last day? I think there are a lot of more scummy votes on that wagon.
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But you can do all of that with just about any lynch. Surely it's much better to do that with someone you think is scum than someone you think is Town. I mean yeah, it was unfortunate that we had to resort to a soft-deadline lynch on mail-mi, but there still had to be people saying he was scummy. What would make my lynch in particular informational, and whose alignments in particular would you have a better chance of deducing if I flipped Town or scum?
Because numerous people had given reasons and argued as to why you were town/scum. It's a LOT more to go on than "looks scummy".
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And I might as well add that I too found out I hadn't got the right equipment to enter a red room.
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And I might as well add that I too found out I hadn't got the right equipment to enter a red room.
And did it specifically say 'equipment'?
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But you can do all of that with just about any lynch. Surely it's much better to do that with someone you think is scum than someone you think is Town. I mean yeah, it was unfortunate that we had to resort to a soft-deadline lynch on mail-mi, but there still had to be people saying he was scummy. What would make my lynch in particular informational, and whose alignments in particular would you have a better chance of deducing if I flipped Town or scum?
Because numerous people had given reasons and argued as to why you were town/scum. It's a LOT more to go on than "looks scummy".
Okay, I'm looking for specifics here. People talk about informational lynches and interactions etc, but I can't seem to actually recall a slam-dunk case based on interactions. The fact is, scum are trying their hardest to seem Towny and part of that is usually being willing to give a scumread to a teammate or even bus. And even if the reads of Townies are correct more often than simple probability would suggest, it can't be that much more often. Which means a Townie thinking someone is scummy is going to be wrong more often than right. Of course I'm not saying that information and interactions isn't a thing. Of course it is. But lynching someone who you think is Town is massive and you better have a really good scum lynch in mind for future days to make it worth it. And if you're just going to be looking for scum based on who voted for the Townie, or who didn't vote for the scum, well guess what, Townies do that too.
So, I want some names. If I'm scum, whose alignment are you convinced of? But more importantly, if I'm Town, whose alignment are you convinced of? In particular, who are you convinced is scum if I'm Town, that would make it worth it to lynch someone you have a Townread on?
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alright here is my long awaited (and eagerly anticipated) reread on who joined the mail-mi wagon and why:
but before I do that. I found this quote from myself from early day2 that makes me absolutely sick to my stomach:
1- He had a scumread on mail-mi. While I won't give mail-mi confirmed town status, I think he is pretty close to it, because he was the other viable lynch option and I just don't see scum allowing two of their players to become the focus day1. That would just be terrible play I think. As such, mcmc had a scum read on an almost IC.
I had apparently completely forgotten about this thought of mine going into the end of day2. GAH! I am not happy with myself at over this.
But the reason that I am posting it is thus: in a game this big it becomes very easy to forget about the past. We get so caught up in the moment, in what is jumping out to us at that specific moment that we lose sight of reads we had previously that were completely legitimate. I don't know if there is a way to alleviate that, except to just caution people from doing what I did... focusing too much on something at the moment and forgetting about the past. A simple reread probably would have reminded me of this quote and would have stopped me from voting mail-mi. I don't think that would have necessarily stopped his lynch, but it might have.
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1. People asking me to claim the item, it not like that. None of the things I could have gotten from robz were things I could have gotten in the bank. I don't even know what one of the things did.
2. Ozzle the reason I thought it would create it's was due to the nature of the items I assumed scum wouldn't have access to them. Now that I have thought more on it and how mafia works they probably could get the items even if they did nothing for them. It is also possible I was the only one visited, there was no mention of other people being visited I just assume that as well.
3. I really think we need to cross the people who were off kooshie wagon and on mail-mi wagon. That should give us a good list for scum. Find out which one of the people started the push to the mail-mi wagon instead of Jimm/insom/ozzle which we should have lynched.
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and now back to the mail-mi wagon:
- the first vote on mail-mi is mine, it is in response to:
Don't lynch me because I have access to something that could really help town.
- ash appears to be immediately against it
- mcmc has a null read on it, calls out my vote as scummy
- jorbles say's it was bad town play, would consider him tomorrow, but not today
- ozle expresses suspicion of mail-mi but doesn't vote
- raerae also expresses suspicion of mail-mi but wants to reread before voting
- the focus moves off mail-mi, I unvote
- raerae finishes her reread and votes mail-mi
- lio says mail-mi is scummy, but that his mistake quoted above makes him a bad lynch for today
- eevee votes mail-mi, mostly based off "raerae is very good at this."
- mail-me then attracts suspicion from lio, myself and a few others because he wanted to be the hammerer
- mcmc expresses a townish read due to "bad town play" on mail-mi but says that he deserves a reread
- lio then votes mail-mi
- i express that mail-mi is a bit townier based off his voting (correction, in a later post I say that mail-mi should be lio. lio is townier based off his voting)
- lekkit comes in and says he wants to lynch mail-mi; doesn't say why, I don't remember him saying anything about mail-mi before
- archetype votes mail-mi
- ash expresses a willingness to vote mail-mi (first time I think)
- jimmm next votes for mail-mi
- lio revotes for mail-mi
- lekkit votes for mail-mi
- archetype comes back to mail-mi
- insomniac expresses a dislike to the idea of a mail-mi/kooshie scum team.
- raerae returns to mail-mi
- i come back to a mail-mi vote
- mcmc expesses suspicion of mail-mi, but is a bit hesitant to vote him
- ozle joins the mail-mi wagon
- and mail-mi hammers. GAH!
Take aways:
raerae was the biggest proponent of the mail-mi wagon only leaving it momentarily to vote for ozle
the people I am most suspicious of on the wagon are lekkit and archetype. Eevee is my most suspicious off, for his "raerae is good at this moment"
mcmc is a little suspicious, but not much.
I think the best lynch for today is lekkit or archetype. But because archetype was also off wagon day1 I think he is the best choice. Add in LALL and general scummy play once he started posting day2 and some weird stuff today, I think he is the best lynch.
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I think the enablers were scummier than the starters (of mail-mi wagon).
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1. How in the world do I look suspicious from that? I felt he was towny, up until the point where he said he would self hammer I was still not comfortable with his lynch.
2. I agree arch looks scummy and think he's a good lynch. Also raerae and ash continue to be suspicious. I remember there unwillingness to lynch Jimm was very frustrating and they gave very little reasoning as to why. Then they settle on to mail-mi which was such a worse lynch I did it hard to believe they are just bad town.
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Yea ash/Jimm/lekkit/arch/raerae all look very scummy based on the wagon. So Jimm/arch are still my favorite lynches due to off K-wagon. After that raerae is probably my best guess based on how se pushed it and diverted from Jimm.
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1. How in the world do I look suspicious from that? I felt he was towny, up until the point where he said he would self hammer I was still not comfortable with his lynch.
sorry I intended to write jimmm, mostly because he too joined the wagon w/o reason, at least from what I saw.
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I think the enablers were scummier than the starters (of mail-mi wagon).
Specifically who do you think the enablers are?
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I think the enablers were scummier than the starters (of mail-mi wagon).
Specifically who do you think the enablers are?
I said posted that before reading yuma's post. Generally I find enabling a mislynch scummier than being the main driver of it. Especially assuming it was done to save a scumbuddy (from the off wagon group) from being the alternative lynch.
I think ash, Archetype and Lekkit would fit the bill here.
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1. How in the world do I look suspicious from that? I felt he was towny, up until the point where he said he would self hammer I was still not comfortable with his lynch.
sorry I intended to write jimmm, mostly because he too joined the wagon w/o reason, at least from what I saw.
Ah then we are in an agreement as to who we think are good lynch options for today. As soon as I am on my computer I will scan through the most recent Jimm/lekkit interaction to see how they look.
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I think the enablers were scummier than the starters (of mail-mi wagon).
Specifically who do you think the enablers are?
I said posted that before reading yuma's post. Generally I find enabling a mislynch scummier than being the main driver of it. Especially assuming it was done to save a scumbuddy (from the off wagon group) from being the alternative lynch.
I think ash, Archetype and Lekkit would fit the bill here.
I tend to agree with that list, but I would add yuma to it. He has expressed regret for being on the mail-mi lynch, but he helped it along too, and he was off wagon on Kooshie.
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Wait, talking about the scum key, I tried to go into a red room last night and Robz said I didn't have enough money (I thought it was free, never saw anything saying it costs something). He never mentioned a scum key.
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Oh no wait, I just PMed Robz and he said I tried to go into a faint red room, not a red room. That makes sense.
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sudgy (1) -- Insomniac
I can't help but notice that Insomniac is still voting for sudgy. Insomniac do you still want to be voting for sudgy?
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actually... i hate to do this, but I am going to request a prod on insomniac. He hasn't posted in here since the 11th. and if I remember right, we have a 2 day rule, yes?
As a general rule you should aim for one post every 48 hours, minimum, to keep the game moving. Players who do not post every 48 hours will be issued at most 2 warnings. Any player who has previously been warned twice is subject to modkill per another player's request. Please inform us that you will be V/LA if you cannot post every 48 hours.
I know he has been online because he has posted in other forum games and in the dominion tournament bracket thread--nice job beating Robz!. I guess maybe he is burned out from mafia. Which I suppose is fair as he has played a lot. But I guess my question is thus: if he is so burned out, why did he sign up?
I am not trying to say that I don't want insomniac to play. I would love for him to continue to play and have thoroughly enjoyed playing with him in the past. But he isn't even coming close to holding his weight in this game and as a result it is a severe detriment to town. (All of that is assuming he is town, which isn't a great assumption. Maybe we should just lynch him?)
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Prod sent.
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Yeah, im not sharing which night.
But mine definitely said 'equipment'. And what Robz said was about the manner in which he told people , i dont think he would have given specific information out to one player and not another.
This is why I thought Ashersky had seen the same event Mcmc, otherwise it doesn't make sense to me.
Are you sure you don't want to rescind the statement Robz didn't visit you Ask?
Because otherwise it looks like Robz visited someone you have had a discussion with, possibly in a scum QT...?
Right, you were the super scummy one yesterday, too.
vote: Ozle
If you want to call me a liar, that's fine. But I'm not. I'd quote my PM if I was allowed. Robz--can I quote that particular PM? I'm guessing not. I was traveling around, asked about the red room, was told I needed a scum key.
I have not met anyone in the Bank. Didn't know I could, until mcmc mentioned meeting Robz.
And here's why Ozle is RIDICULOUSLY SCUMMY. If I was scum, as he so wittily posits, WHY WOULD I NEED A SCUM KEY TO ENTER A RED ROOM? The red rooms are the vaults where the dead people go. The scum can choose which red room to put them in, so I must assume they can actually enter the rooms already. My best guess is that "scum key" is something that is purchasable, just like a "gold key" or "silver key." And even if scum can't enter the rooms, why would I, as scum, start blabbing about a scum key to everyone? Yeesh.
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ALL PLAYERS ARE ABSOLUTELY, MANIFESTLY FORBIDDEN TO DIRECTLY QUOTE THEIR PMs. ANY PLAYER WHO DOES SO WILL BE MODKILLED.
You may, of course, paraphrase your PMs. If you have questions about what counts as paraphrasing, PM me a sample of what you would like to post.
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ALL PLAYERS ARE ABSOLUTELY, MANIFESTLY FORBIDDEN TO DIRECTLY QUOTE THEIR PMs. ANY PLAYER WHO DOES SO WILL BE MODKILLED.
You may, of course, paraphrase your PMs. If you have questions about what counts as paraphrasing, PM me a sample of what you would like to post.
Honest theory question to the town players in this game (so not you, Ozle):
Is getting modkilled a good town play at this juncture? I can confirm what I've said, and it clears me as town. You can see that I'm telling the truth, and it helps shine even more light on scummy players who have been interacting with me (such as Ozle).
As publically noted in other games, as town, I am ALWAYS willing to die to win (or save more powerful PRs).
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ALL PLAYERS ARE ABSOLUTELY, MANIFESTLY FORBIDDEN TO DIRECTLY QUOTE THEIR PMs. ANY PLAYER WHO DOES SO WILL BE MODKILLED.
You may, of course, paraphrase your PMs. If you have questions about what counts as paraphrasing, PM me a sample of what you would like to post.
Honest theory question to the town players in this game (so not you, Ozle):
Is getting modkilled a good town play at this juncture? I can confirm what I've said, and it clears me as town. You can see that I'm telling the truth, and it helps shine even more light on scummy players who have been interacting with me (such as Ozle).
As publically noted in other games, as town, I am ALWAYS willing to die to win (or save more powerful PRs).
I think it would be borderline cheating. Clearly against the spirit of the rules of the game.
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Regarding ash/myself/ozle I think I might have discovered a solution that would explain everything amicably between the three of us. But first I want ash to explain a little bit more in detail how he found out about the scum key, if he is willing, rather than me giving him an answer that he could use to explain it.
ash could you talk about this.
also don't quote/claim and get mod killed, just isn't the right way to win a game
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A modkill is designed to inflict maximum damage on the faction whose member committed it. This means that if a Town-aligned player is modkilled, the day will end. If a scum-aligned player is modkilled, the day will NOT end.
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ALL PLAYERS ARE ABSOLUTELY, MANIFESTLY FORBIDDEN TO DIRECTLY QUOTE THEIR PMs. ANY PLAYER WHO DOES SO WILL BE MODKILLED.
You may, of course, paraphrase your PMs. If you have questions about what counts as paraphrasing, PM me a sample of what you would like to post.
Honest theory question to the town players in this game (so not you, Ozle):
Is getting modkilled a good town play at this juncture? I can confirm what I've said, and it clears me as town. You can see that I'm telling the truth, and it helps shine even more light on scummy players who have been interacting with me (such as Ozle).
As publically noted in other games, as town, I am ALWAYS willing to die to win (or save more powerful PRs).
I think it would be borderline cheating. Clearly against the spirit of the rules of the game.
Agreed.
What happens in other games when people accuse you of making stuff up Ash?
Do you always blow up like this and threaten to quote PMs?
you may have a PM from Robz, or you may not. I can't possibly know that, and if you were scum is DEFINATELY something you could lie about.
HOW is that so hard to believe?
Scum lie in games, they do it all the time. You dont automatically get to be believed everything you say is true, thats why we call it scum HUNTING, trying to find out WHO is telling the truth or not.
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Hmm, strange that everyone is claiming that they didn't meet robz, if were going to do that why don't we claim who did meet robz. Also the scum key was an item I could get from robz, this was why I thought it would be town players that met robz. I guess I could have been the only one that this occurred to but that just seems weird.
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Hmm, strange that everyone is claiming that they didn't meet robz, if were going to do that why don't we claim who did meet robz. Also the scum key was an item I could get from robz, this was why I thought it would be town players that met robz. I guess I could have been the only one that this occurred to but that just seems weird.
Correction:
Only the active players are saying they didnt meet Robz. In fact, i think Ashersky is the only person who has come right out and said they didnt meet him.
There are others who didnt know the name of the scum key item, which implies they didn't. Unless Robz has different rotating items.
This game has a whooooole bunch of people just sitting around not saying a lot, jumping on a wagons time and then disappearing again, so its quite possible some of them did meet him.
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Regarding ash/myself/ozle I think I might have discovered a solution that would explain everything amicably between the three of us. But first I want ash to explain a little bit more in detail how he found out about the scum key, if he is willing, rather than me giving him an answer that he could use to explain it.
ash could you talk about this.
also don't quote/claim and get mod killed, just isn't the right way to win a game
Yuma, I've said this over and over. In bold, for everyone:
I saw a red room. I knew it cost X coins to enter specific colored rooms, but did NOT know how much it cost to enter the red one. So I asked Robz in a PM how much it cost to enter the red room. He told me what the red room was and SPECIFICALLY that it required a scum key to enter. I did not enter the room because I do not have a scum key.
Robz, if you get me killed by accidentally giving me more information in a PM to a general set-up question than you gave to others, that really, really sucks for town. I mean, WAY unfair to town.
As for breaking the rules on purpose, knowing I'll get modkilled, I agree its not in the spirit of the game, but town has been disadvantaged a bit (unfairly, I think, given the usual built-in disadvantages we normally have) and I think scum is using that disadvantage against us. So I am looking at what my options are for overcoming it.
If modkill is out, I can lead an ashersky lynch. That is the other way to prove my innocence.
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Sure that sounds like a great idea. Just wonderful.
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Sure that sounds like a great idea. Just wonderful.
Wait, which part?
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Sure that sounds like a great idea. Just wonderful.
Because my strong preference is to just lynch scum!Ozle.
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Question to both Ozle and ashersky:
Do you see it's possible the other could be town? How?
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Slow down there man.
Sure it makes you look a little bit scummy for you knowing about the key, but theres not a lynch charge coming at you over it is there, no ones even voting for you
.
It's minor scumminess points at best.
You start calling up modkillings and self lynches, thats just terrible for town if you are town.
Waaaay over reaction on your part here.
Someone points out that you could have been lying in a game of Mafia, shock horror, thats what Mafia in these games do, they make up stuff to make themselves look townie.
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"If modkill is out, I can lead an ashersky lynch. That is the other way to prove my innocence."
Also, YAAAAAWNNNNN
You promised this last game day as well didnt you.
What happened then?
You didn't follow through with it did you.
Boy who cried wolf much?
Im sorry, this is just ridiculous.
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Regarding ash/myself/ozle I think I might have discovered a solution that would explain everything amicably between the three of us. But first I want ash to explain a little bit more in detail how he found out about the scum key, if he is willing, rather than me giving him an answer that he could use to explain it.
ash could you talk about this.
also don't quote/claim and get mod killed, just isn't the right way to win a game
Yuma, I've said this over and over. In bold, for everyone:
I saw a red room. I knew it cost X coins to enter specific colored rooms, but did NOT know how much it cost to enter the red one. So I asked Robz in a PM how much it cost to enter the red room. He told me what the red room was and SPECIFICALLY that it required a scum key to enter. I did not enter the room because I do not have a scum key.
Robz, if you get me killed by accidentally giving me more information in a PM to a general set-up question than you gave to others, that really, really sucks for town. I mean, WAY unfair to town.
As for breaking the rules on purpose, knowing I'll get modkilled, I agree its not in the spirit of the game, but town has been disadvantaged a bit (unfairly, I think, given the usual built-in disadvantages we normally have) and I think scum is using that disadvantage against us. So I am looking at what my options are for overcoming it.
If modkill is out, I can lead an ashersky lynch. That is the other way to prove my innocence.
that is exactly what I wanted to hear and I believe you. I never asked how much it cost to enter a room, nor did Ozle. Ozle asked if he could, I didn't ask anything. So I think the difference in your repsonse was that you asked how much it cost. As such, Robz told you more because it doesn't have a "cost" it has a requirement. I wanted to make sure that is actually what happened before I jumped to that conclusion and gave you an answer to a question. Sorry if this was frustrating for you.
I believe ash in this regard.
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As for breaking the rules on purpose, knowing I'll get modkilled, I agree its not in the spirit of the game, but town has been disadvantaged a bit (unfairly, I think, given the usual built-in disadvantages we normally have) and I think scum is using that disadvantage against us. So I am looking at what my options are for overcoming it.
I am against any breaking of the rules on purpose for any reason. If you do this, I will quit this game.
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Boy who cried wolf much?
Stop with the personal attacks man. It's beneath you, I think.
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I've temporarily locked the thread. NO RULES WERE BROKEN, and I am not yet convinced that anyone has done anything over the line in any way, but I want to address a few things that have come up recently, and it's easier if I can do that without like a million additional posts coming in, so just sit tight for a minute.
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At this time, no players have committed any violations or acted in an uncivil manner. However, I encourage all players who are feeling like other players are being too harsh to do two things: 1) Get away from the thread for a bit so you don't say something you regret, 2) remember to assume your opponent's best intentions, which is something you agreed to do when you signed the pledge. Everyone is just trying to play this game to win, and it's a game that involves manipulation, deceit, and drawing inferences from scant evidence.
As for modkill, I will simply remind you all that it is a penalty--by definition, it cannot help the faction that incurs it. Wanting to be modkilled is inappropriate, not because it's technically cheating, but because all players are expected to play to win. Still, discussing or threatening to get modkilled is not grounds for anything.
On the subject of which players got what information, let me once again draw you to this:
I'm not going to tell you that you shouldn't read anything into interactions like "What sort of response did Robz give X when X did Y?" But... there is a lot for me to keep track of this game, and I have been and certainly will be again inconsistent in how I deal with two players doing the same thing, regardless of alignment.
Thread unlocked.
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Boy who cried wolf much?
Stop with the personal attacks man. It's beneath you, I think.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boy_Who_Cried_Wolf
Did you
A) self vote and say you would kill your self yesterday and then didnt
B) say you would vote and kill yourself today and then wont.
Thats the VERY DEFINITION of Boy who cried wolf.
Its not a personal attack, its IS A DEFINITION OF WHAT YOU ARE DOING.
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Boy who cried wolf much?
Stop with the personal attacks man. It's beneath you, I think.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boy_Who_Cried_Wolf
Did you
A) self vote and say you would kill your self yesterday and then didnt
B) say you would vote and kill yourself today and then wont.
Thats the VERY DEFINITION of Boy who cried wolf.
Its not a personal attack, its IS A DEFINITION OF WHAT YOU ARE DOING.
See, had you capitalized the B, W, C, and W, I may have gotten that inference. Instead, I thought you were calling me a crybaby.
As for breaking the rules on purpose, knowing I'll get modkilled, I agree its not in the spirit of the game, but town has been disadvantaged a bit (unfairly, I think, given the usual built-in disadvantages we normally have) and I think scum is using that disadvantage against us. So I am looking at what my options are for overcoming it.
I am against any breaking of the rules on purpose for any reason. If you do this, I will quit this game.
I won't break any rules on purpose. I promise.
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yay! let's scum hunt based off stuff we know... like voting interactions and other stuff. Remember that? That was fun!
so who else wants to vote for archetype? I do!
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yay! let's scum hunt based off stuff we know... like voting interactions and other stuff. Remember that? That was fun!
so who else wants to vote for archetype? I do!
At the moment I just want to go to bed, its 1am and I have to be up in 5 hours.
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yay! let's scum hunt based off stuff we know... like voting interactions and other stuff. Remember that? That was fun!
so who else wants to vote for archetype? I do!
Can you summarize the Arch case?
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that is exactly what I wanted to hear and I believe you. I never asked how much it cost to enter a room, nor did Ozle. Ozle asked if he could, I didn't ask anything. So I think the difference in your repsonse was that you asked how much it cost. As such, Robz told you more because it doesn't have a "cost" it has a requirement. I wanted to make sure that is actually what happened before I jumped to that conclusion and gave you an answer to a question. Sorry if this was frustrating for you.
I believe ash in this regard.
I do think the phrasing of the question is what resulted in the different phrasing of the answer. Still think it put me in a difficult position (grumbleRobzgrumble).
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that is exactly what I wanted to hear and I believe you. I never asked how much it cost to enter a room, nor did Ozle. Ozle asked if he could, I didn't ask anything. So I think the difference in your repsonse was that you asked how much it cost. As such, Robz told you more because it doesn't have a "cost" it has a requirement. I wanted to make sure that is actually what happened before I jumped to that conclusion and gave you an answer to a question. Sorry if this was frustrating for you.
I believe ash in this regard.
I do think the phrasing of the question is what resulted in the different phrasing of the answer. Still think it put me in a difficult position (grumbleRobzgrumble).
right. I thought for a minute that I might have caught you in something, but I wanted to make sure before I put it forward. Even if I felt I had caught you in something I would be very hesitant to base a lynch off it. It would have to be part of a greater case with more evidence than that.
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Unvote
Ok so I guess I won't vote for sudgy even though I do believe he is the best person to lynch and I'll make a big post here covering that and a few different other things.
My Lurking:
1) The weekend just ended, I was out of town this weekend
2) Once the weekend ended (before GokoDom v Robz) my computer died
3) I now have access to a computer again but didn't have it for much time last night aside from the gokodom game.
4) I am burnt out from Mafia but that is not at all why I am not posting, I am saying the things I have to say and not trying to flood. I signed up for this game even though I was burnt out because of the explore mechanic. I am taking a break after this game, I do not know when/if I will return.
Sudgy:
1) I have vision of the room that has the gold key, I confirm it was purchased.
2) I confirm the Oracle was also purchased.
3) The Gold Key is only useful tonight.
4) I have no money and do not know the location of any gold rooms, thus I cannot personally verify Sudgy's claim. And you'll consider me skeptical of anyone that can.
5) Therefore I still think Sudgy is the best lynch for today. However I will not re vote for him yet as other people don't want to lynch him
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I reread mcmc and haven't found anything that is super stereotypical scum mcmc. I do, however, believe he's a smart cookie and one of these times will switch up his tactics. This quote in particular stuck out to me because it isn't the first time he's mentioned my reason for not voting jimmmmm wasn't good enough. Just because you disagree with another persons reason for something, doesn't make it any less of a reason. This feels a bit like scum mcmc trying to start something/set something up (especially since I'm pretty sure this is the first time he's called me suspicious but says ash & I "continue" to be) but I'm not sold on that just yet.
Arch and/or Insom will be my next reread and I'll do my best to make that happen tomorrow night but I am officially v/la 4/16, 17, & 18 so my vote will probably stay where it is if you guys want to push the 18th for the soft-deadline.
1. How in the world do I look suspicious from that? I felt he was towny, up until the point where he said he would self hammer I was still not comfortable with his lynch.
2. I agree arch looks scummy and think he's a good lynch. Also raerae and ash continue to be suspicious. I remember there unwillingness to lynch Jimm was very frustrating and they gave very little reasoning as to why. Then they settle on to mail-mi which was such a worse lynch I did it hard to believe they are just bad town.
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@Jimm: Allright, here's what I got from a quick read-through. I would probably do a more thurough if you had been lynched as it's basically just theory now.
First let's start with the narrative that you would flip scum.
I only noted two things here and those are:
Making a case on a scum wagon that's about to take off wouldn't really be scum's top priority after loosing a team mate day 1. So it would make mcmc look a bit more towny.
I think this is the first time anyone mentioned why they didn't like your lynch. That would make Eevee look a bit scummy if you actually turned out to be scum.
Then we move on to the town narrative.
Oh, you know, just moving the vote to the largest wagon, because, why not?
Let's do the easiest lynch. I don't really care if it's Jimm or not. If someone cares to make a better case, I might be willing to sheep the case, but I really want to lynch someone right now, and I think Jimm is the likliest to be lynched. If it turned out you were town, this wouldn't look good for yuma at all.
Then we have some general vote switching from lio, mail-mi and to some extent yuma just trying to make a lynch happen. If they were on your wagon, I would assume that at least one of them were probably scum. And yuma comes off looking extra bad, since he was also off the Kooshie wagon.
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I also found some weird stuff while rereading.
Yuma's still here, right?
vote: ashersky
That should get Jimmmmm back to L-2.
Could you explain what your town read is on jimmmm for me?
You also missed this one?
Why are you so opposed to Jimmm lynch?
What has he done exactly that has seemed townie to you?
Or do you only want to tunnel me now (and to a lesser extent Yuma, but I could see why you put your vote on me out of the two, its because Yuma is scary!)
Sorry, missed that one. I've explained this ad naseum, by the way. My town read on Jimmmmm is based on my meta-understanding of Jimmmmm's way of playing, his towny actions on D2, and his pro-town willingness to self-hammer.
My vote on me is real. My lynch is a better one than Jimmmmm's. I have access to stuff on the map, sure, and whatever I may have in my possession already, but there's no guarantee I survive. I'm still a VT--I'd rather lose a VT than an unknown.
Wouldn't it always be better to lynch an unknown than a VT in a game where most of us are either vanilla or kind of above vanilla or scum? You won't win games by prefering to self lynch over lynching others.
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I'm actually tempted to vote for yuma. Scummy actions starting to add up (referring to the Kooshie, mail-mi and Jimmm stuff).
Yes, I'll Vote: yuma
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Here's an argument I can make now. Ignoring the Bastard game I've been in two games which started around the same time. In one I was plenty active and most people had Town reads on me, and in the other one I haven't been been. Guess which game I've been prioritising? The game I was scum in. Read the scum QT to see all the scheming we did. I implored my teammate early on not to lurk. I hate that I've made myself resort to using this argument, but it's there.
But, as far as Town lynches go, I'm not a bad one.
Why did you think you weren't a bad lynch? I've given my reasons beyond having a town-read on you. Willing to return the favor?
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I agree that yuma looks worse and worse. Assuming that my read on Jimm is correct: Vote: yuma
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Here's an argument I can make now. Ignoring the Bastard game I've been in two games which started around the same time. In one I was plenty active and most people had Town reads on me, and in the other one I haven't been been. Guess which game I've been prioritising? The game I was scum in. Read the scum QT to see all the scheming we did. I implored my teammate early on not to lurk. I hate that I've made myself resort to using this argument, but it's there.
But, as far as Town lynches go, I'm not a bad one.
Why did you think you weren't a bad lynch? I've given my reasons beyond having a town-read on you. Willing to return the favor?
Because I hadn't been keeping up with the game and didn't really see myself being able to catch up and start contributing significantly. I think mostly I was just annoyed at myself because I had been contributing so little that I knew I deserved to be lynched.
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I'm actually tempted to vote for yuma. Scummy actions starting to add up (referring to the Kooshie, mail-mi and Jimmm stuff).
Yes, I'll Vote: yuma
you mind saying what stuff more specifically?
Kooshie I can guess, being off wagon? Is there anything else?
mail-mi? Lynching?
But what about Jimmm?
And what separates me from all the other players that didn't lynch kooshie, but lynched mail-mi?
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I agree that yuma looks worse and worse. Assuming that my read on Jimm is correct: Vote: yuma
again, mind saying what? I can't respond to "worse and worse"
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I'm actually tempted to vote for yuma. Scummy actions starting to add up (referring to the Kooshie, mail-mi and Jimmm stuff).
Yes, I'll Vote: yuma
you mind saying what stuff more specifically?
Kooshie I can guess, being off wagon? Is there anything else?
mail-mi? Lynching?
But what about Jimmm?
And what separates me from all the other players that didn't lynch kooshie, but lynched mail-mi?
Well, you really should have known better than to join the mail-mi lynch, especially after being off-wagon day 1 yourself (presumably knowing you are town). You made this case on yourself, which distracted me at first, but really, it is just a scummy action.
This post, remember that I come from a perspective where Jimm is a town read. You were arguing "there are no other viable lynch targets, are there?", and then eventually ended up participating in lynching someone who was ON the Kooshie wagon (so clearly Jimmm wasnt the only viable option).
Idk, it's just that you've been a clear leader and active enough to escape people's suspicions a lot, but the fact remains that you a) were off the mafia lynch day 1 and b) were on the (in my opinion stupid) town lynch day 2 (despite being an off wagon guy!) and also tried to make the lynch of someone I read town happen day 2. That's just a lot of scummy voting behavior, especially for someone held to a high standard such as yourself.
Being a vocal leader that just manipulates the town into it's own destruction is a known scum-yuma strategy (you employed in MaM very recently for example). Could it be that you saw your partner going down day 1 and decided you need to take risks to turn it around for scum and just started actively pushing for scum's agenda hoping no one realizes?
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I agree that yuma looks worse and worse. Assuming that my read on Jimm is correct: Vote: yuma
again, mind saying what? I can't respond to "worse and worse"
First you were off the Kooshie wagon. Then look at the hypothetical post I made earlier today. Again, I'm basing this mostly my townread Jimm. Add to the fact, that you yourself pointed out, that you didn't want to lynch mail-mi, but did anyway. Because you forgot that you had a townread on him.
alright here is my long awaited (and eagerly anticipated) reread on who joined the mail-mi wagon and why:
but before I do that. I found this quote from myself from early day2 that makes me absolutely sick to my stomach:
1- He had a scumread on mail-mi. While I won't give mail-mi confirmed town status, I think he is pretty close to it, because he was the other viable lynch option and I just don't see scum allowing two of their players to become the focus day1. That would just be terrible play I think. As such, mcmc had a scum read on an almost IC.
I had apparently completely forgotten about this thought of mine going into the end of day2. GAH! I am not happy with myself at over this.
But the reason that I am posting it is thus: in a game this big it becomes very easy to forget about the past. We get so caught up in the moment, in what is jumping out to us at that specific moment that we lose sight of reads we had previously that were completely legitimate. I don't know if there is a way to alleviate that, except to just caution people from doing what I did... focusing too much on something at the moment and forgetting about the past. A simple reread probably would have reminded me of this quote and would have stopped me from voting mail-mi. I don't think that would have necessarily stopped his lynch, but it might have.
Remember?
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Yuma, it seems to me like you are pointing out all the scummy stuff you've done yourself before anyone else builds a case around them. Being the one to dig them up doesn't absolve you of the blame.
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Yuma, it seems to me like you are pointing out all the scummy stuff you've done yourself before anyone else builds a case around them. Being the one to dig them up doesn't absolve you of the blame.
Yeah, actually I totally agree with this. D1, and D2, I keep running lists of who we should vote for based on the lynches and yuma's name keeps coming up. I never vote for him because he's always leading the charge with a compelling case, but this could just be really smart scum play, which we all know yuma is more than capable of. He has been coming out ahead of all the cases that come up about him so he can spin his apology as "bad" play instead of "scummy" play.
Vote: yuma
I'd go back to Archetype if that's what everyone thinks best, but since there isn't a rush to lynch Arch right now, I am totally willing to lynch yuma.
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Hey, guys please dont lynch me. As some of you are aware, I'm V/LA and am only on mobile. I promise to give this top priority (Well, 2nd. I have the BMX stuff) when I get back. I don't mind too much if you lynch me, but at least give me a chance to defend myself.
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Vote Count 3.4
Archetype (1) -- yuma
Lekkit (3) -- Archetype, sudgy, raerae
Ozle (1) -- ashersky
yuma (3) -- Eevee, Lekkit, Jorbles
Not Voting (4) -- Ozle, mcmcsalot, Jimm, Insomniac
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. There are 20 days remaining. Deadline is May 6 at 7:00 PM.
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So you guys complain about me lurking but when I actually post something no one interacts with it at all? Really?
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Alright three votes on me and I wouldn't be surprised if more join in soon.
I will address what I can:
First of all, from a neutral perspective I agree that I am a good lynch (or rather, I know I am town and know I am not, but at least from where I have fallen in regard to the previous day's lynches I appear to be a good lynch).
I understand the case against me and see that it certainly has merit. It is unfortunate because I have been trying to play a very townie game, but seemingly have failed.
Here are the points as I see them (thanks to eevee and lekkit for clarifiying further what they found scummy about me:
1 - I wasn't on the kooshie wagon. True. I wasn't. But let's go back and look why I wasn't on the kooshie wagon shall we. If you go back and read my posts you will notice that I never mention Kooshie, never mention the wagon building on kooshie. Why is this? Well mainly, it is because at that time I had very limited access to the internet. I had just changed apts and only had access at the library. So at that time my field of vision was very small. In fact I was still fully focused on looking more closely at lio and quashing stupid map claims. My last posts before the kooshie lynch were discussing my own meta with ashersky. At that time, I believe kooshie was at 4 votes.
so the question you have to ask yourself is this... Would scum!yuma not talk about (either defend or bus) his partner when his partner was at 4 votes? Would he completely ignore the wagon on his partner? You can answer for yourself, but my answer is an emphatic no. I don't play scum that way. Look at MXIX or MXX as examples of either bussing or defending. Could I have tried a different strategy? Yes, but that is a stupid strategy. When you are scum you have to be aggressive and push and try and lead town away. I didn't do that day1 at all.
2 - I was on the mail-mi lynch. True I was. Now, let's look at why I was. From the beginning of the day I attempted to get votes on people off the kooshie wagon. I felt that was the best place for a lynch. I tried and suggested and went through Jimmm, mcmc, Ozle, archetype and insomniac. None of those lynches took! I was extremely frustrated. Frustrated by the lack of participation from some, the stubbornness of others. It was a very long day, long enough to forget things I had noticed before. And mail-mi did some very stilly, anti-town things that distracted me. I don't excuse myself. As I said before I should have known better as town. But the question that you have to ask yourselves again is: Would scum!yuma completely abandon everything he had said before and push a lynch on someone that he had previously given a town read to that same day? Would he be that careless and obviously bad? You can answer for your self, but again the answer is no! As scum I am meticulous, I am careful and above all I don't get mixed up. (well sometimes I pretend to get mixed up, see MXIX and my fake jtotheonah claim) When I am town I am much more relaxed and often make mistakes (MXV where I derphammered Galz, MIX where I pushed a fake case on sparky, only to find out that he was actually scum, MXVII where I blindly ignored Lekkit's scumminess and on and on).
3 - I pushed the Jimmmm wagon hard and because some people have a town read on Jimmm this is scummy. I refuse to defend myself for doing this. Jimmmm fit the bill for scum. he should have been lynched. Town would be in a better position if he was lynched. And eevee, you dont' know his alignment. So any extrapolation that you make off that is very prone to error and this point is mute.
4 - The other question that you have to ask is thus: am I a better lynch than the other players who were also off the kooshie wagon and on the mail-mi wagon? Again you can answer for yourself, but I think the answer is no! Who are the other options: Ozle, archetype and Jimmmm. I have voted for all three and in my estimation the best lynch is archetype. Show me what he has down that absolves him from being voted? Jimmm I still think is a better lynch. Ozle I have more of a town read on based off how he reacted to his wagon and interacted with me. But if you are going to lynch me, you first have to prove to me that I am a better lynch than Archetype. I do not believe that this can be done.
So if you can answer yes to questions I pose in 1, 2 and 4, then I guess vote for me. I won't blame you. I will fight you the whole way, but I won't blame you. But if you answer no, then I think you should really go back and look more closely at archetype and jimmmm who I think our are top choices for a lynch today.
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So you guys complain about me lurking but when I actually post something no one interacts with it at all? Really?
Unvote
Ok so I guess I won't vote for sudgy even though I do believe he is the best person to lynch and I'll make a big post here covering that and a few different other things.
My Lurking:
1) The weekend just ended, I was out of town this weekend
2) Once the weekend ended (before GokoDom v Robz) my computer died
3) I now have access to a computer again but didn't have it for much time last night aside from the gokodom game.
4) I am burnt out from Mafia but that is not at all why I am not posting, I am saying the things I have to say and not trying to flood. I signed up for this game even though I was burnt out because of the explore mechanic. I am taking a break after this game, I do not know when/if I will return.
Sudgy:
1) I have vision of the room that has the gold key, I confirm it was purchased.
2) I confirm the Oracle was also purchased.
3) The Gold Key is only useful tonight.
4) I have no money and do not know the location of any gold rooms, thus I cannot personally verify Sudgy's claim. And you'll consider me skeptical of anyone that can.
5) Therefore I still think Sudgy is the best lynch for today. However I will not re vote for him yet as other people don't want to lynch him
what do you want us to say? You haven't really said anything new. I mean I appreciate that you are busy and not quite as invested in this game, and I appreciate that you did post. But you posting about stuff that we already decided a much earlier date.
You talk about the key... that is nice I guess. And yes we have to take sudgy's claim with a grain of salt, just like we do any other claim in this game. I still think it is ridiculous that you think sudgy is the best lynch for today. If tomorrow you think that multiple people can now enter gold rooms (maybe it will just be one player.. we won't know until we try) are all in cahoots together to prevent a sudgy lynch then I guess we found the scum team and can lynch them one by one. But let's wait until tomorrow to figure that out eh?
Do you have any other thoughts about say... me or archetype? Or anything else that has been talked about in all of today?
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yuma, i'm rereading some stuff and trying to respond to you. In the mean time, what do you think of me (in the context of alignment in this game)?
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yuma, i'm rereading some stuff and trying to respond to you. In the mean time, what do you think of me (in the context of alignment in this game)?
I don't know.
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I'm not really fine with it. I would much rather lynch mail-mi.
I'm rereading sparky, this jumps out after sparky says "the kooshie lynch seems to be happening, it has my support". The quote has mcmc not approving with a scum lynch and wanting a town lynch instead.
yuma, I was asking because of "And eevee, you dont' know his alignment. So any extrapolation that you make off that is very prone to error and this point is mute." I know, scum slips are dumb, but this does seem to imply you know I'm town.
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yuma, I was asking because of "And eevee, you dont' know his alignment. So any extrapolation that you make off that is very prone to error and this point is mute." I know, scum slips are dumb, but this does seem to imply you know I'm town.
I don't understand. I don't see the connection between my quote and what you are implying.
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Sparky was off wagon, true. But sparky did give his support to the wagon, twice. He clearly didn't try to stop us from lynching Kooshie. His off-wagonness was less scummy than your standard off-wagonness.
You are also scummier than him just because you are leading the town. You are the one pushing the cases, while we all appreciate that, it also means you are held to a higher standard.
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Sparky was off wagon, true. But sparky did give his support to the wagon, twice. He clearly didn't try to stop us from lynching Kooshie. His off-wagonness was less scummy than your standard off-wagonness.
You are also scummier than him just because you are leading the town. You are the one pushing the cases, while we all appreciate that, it also means you are held to a higher standard.
So I take it that you would answer yes to all of my questions then. You really think I would play scum like that?
And I know that what I am using is a meta defense... and I hate using it. But at this point I have nothing else. I want to prevent my lynch because I am town, but I haven't played this game in a pro-town way despite my attempts. So that is all I have to give.
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The problem is, after you totally fool us enough times, it all boils down to "well why not.. he could just be anticipating what I think again..".
1) Not mentioning Kooshie doesn't absolve you at all. If it did, you could just choose to do that as scum!
2) I think scumyuma is pretty much as likely to do this as town yuma.
3) I think Jimmm is likely town. If I'm right, pushing his wagon is scummy. Even more importantly, we often think of this game alike. Here I know I as a townie thought Jimmm is likely town whereas you pushed for him. Makes you (a bit) scummier in my eyes.
4) Jimm's "bad play", not caring and general disinterest reads non-scumJimmmlike to me. Ozle's lynch I still support. Archetype was very onboard with the Kooshie lynch (as was Ozle, which is a point towards him being town), and I very much suspect mcmc too who you left out (for seriously being against the Kooshie lynch).
It's not a slam dunk by any means (although I find having you (and hopefully others later) responding to this case informational, but as you said, your actions this far have been scummy.
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1) But what I am saying about this is if it is my strategy as mafia it is a terrible one because I leave myself in lala land and no longer in control of myself. This is a bad situation for mafia to be in. Do you remember MIII? I learned that lesson very quickly when I just sat back and watched volt get lynched. I took that to heart and have never played that way since. My argument here is that I am a better scum player than to adopt such a bad strategy, maybe it is egotistical, but it is my argument nevertheless.
2) is the weaker argument yes, but can you see town!yuma being more likely to do that, or just as likely?
3) this is false. Town leads the charge on townies all the time, it doesn't make them scum. It makes them townies that have incorrect reads. Jimmm had what 7 votes on him at one point? But there were only three scum (two if Jimmm is scum, but that is a disputed point). All seven can't be scum, so town must have been on that wagon. Do you see what I mean?
4) being on-board isn't the same as being on the lynch. And remember that was a lynch that was 100% going through, scum would want to join on that to buss to be less suspicious, especially at the end.
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4) being on-board isn't the same as being on the lynch. And remember that was a lynch that was 100% going through, scum would want to join on that to buss to be less suspicious, especially at the end.
Which is absolutely a point towards Arche's and Ozle's towniness so an even bigger strike against you, mcmc and Jimmm.
Other points: Look, I don't even feel very good about this case. It's hard to suspect you. But the fact to the matter is, you've been on townfolks throat all game and didn't participate on the fortunate day 1 scum wagon. You can't really talk that into not scummy.
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4) being on-board isn't the same as being on the lynch. And remember that was a lynch that was 100% going through, scum would want to join on that to buss to be less suspicious, especially at the end.
Which is absolutely a point towards Arche's and Ozle's towniness so an even bigger strike against you, mcmc and Jimmm.
It can't be a strike against me. I wasn't online from the time that kooshie was at 4 votes until the lynch went through. I came online and was surprised that we had quick lynched.
And I think you are missing my point. If arche and ozle were scum mates with Kooshie they would want to join that wagon. And get credit for lynching their scummate.
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Oh, and if I do get to the point where I am about to lynch. Don't wait for me to claim. I have nothing to share in regard to the map/roles/etc. I would like at some point to get my last reads and thoughts in before being lynched but if I get close to being lynched I am sure I will say something to the effect anyways.
Don't waste bankable time waiting for me to claim anything, because I won't be doing so.
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4) being on-board isn't the same as being on the lynch. And remember that was a lynch that was 100% going through, scum would want to join on that to buss to be less suspicious, especially at the end.
Which is absolutely a point towards Arche's and Ozle's towniness so an even bigger strike against you, mcmc and Jimmm.
It can't be a strike against me. I wasn't online from the time that kooshie was at 4 votes until the lynch went through. I came online and was surprised that we had quick lynched.
And I think you are missing my point. If arche and ozle were scum mates with Kooshie they would want to join that wagon. And get credit for lynching their scummate.
Hmm? That's what I'm saying! Their behaviour makes them seem townier than your standard offthewagoner.
Okay, it's a null read then (if that's true and wasn't intentional).
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1. You say that because you completely ignored Kooshie you should be considered towny, but then say that you were not around to do anything before the lynch happened. I could take you at your word that you would not have done this as scum except that you then said that you didn't have time to do anything before the lynch, meaning that you didn't have time to act as you normally would have as scum. Your contradictory points are confusing (deliberately so maybe?) and don't make me read you as a town player.
2. Wouldn't scum!yuma be just as frustrated as town!yuma with the lack of lynches? I could see a scum player leaping at the chance to lynch mail-mi. A bad lynch at the time as it doesn't help us narrowing things down from people who were off the Kooshie wagon. I could see you being willing to pretend to change your mind to get a lynch through on a towny.
3. I too find Jimmmm scummy, but that doesn't mean I don't also think you could be scum.
4. I would be willing to lynch Archetype, Jimmmm or you. I tend to think Ozle is probably the towniest of the lot of you (those off and then on the lynches), but I do see lots of reasons why you could be scum, and have no qualms about voting for you. I've read you in games where I was sure you were town, but then you were scum. The actions I can be sure you made in this game make you look scummy to me, and that's enough for me to vote.
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1. You say that because you completely ignored Kooshie you should be considered towny, but then say that you were not around to do anything before the lynch happened. I could take you at your word that you would not have done this as scum except that you then said that you didn't have time to do anything before the lynch, meaning that you didn't have time to act as you normally would have as scum. Your contradictory points are confusing (deliberately so maybe?) and don't make me read you as a town player.
sorry if that was confusing. I guess my point is thus: I can see why people would be suspicious of me for being off the kooshie wagon. but understanding why I was off the kooshie wagon is pivotal. What I am saying is that I didn't post anything about kooshie when kooshie was at 4 votes. To me that is not a scum!yuma move at all. In fact I think that is a horrible move by anyone playing scum (and I reiterate the point here that I learned that lesson in MIII when I just sat back and watched my partner voltgloss get lynched and then they came after me the next day because it was so terribly obvious). As such, I would hope that someone would recognize that doing so would be dumb, and that I am not dumb.
Another person might say, well, you would expect us to think that you weren't dumb!!! WIFOM! WIFOM! But it never works that way. Scum doesn't do stupid things in the hope that others will see them as townie. It is too risky.
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1. You say that because you completely ignored Kooshie you should be considered towny, but then say that you were not around to do anything before the lynch happened. I could take you at your word that you would not have done this as scum except that you then said that you didn't have time to do anything before the lynch, meaning that you didn't have time to act as you normally would have as scum. Your contradictory points are confusing (deliberately so maybe?) and don't make me read you as a town player.
sorry if that was confusing. I guess my point is thus: I can see why people would be suspicious of me for being off the kooshie wagon. but understanding why I was off the kooshie wagon is pivotal. What I am saying is that I didn't post anything about kooshie when kooshie was at 4 votes. To me that is not a scum!yuma move at all. In fact I think that is a horrible move by anyone playing scum (and I reiterate the point here that I learned that lesson in MIII when I just sat back and watched my partner voltgloss get lynched and then they came after me the next day because it was so terribly obvious). As such, I would hope that someone would recognize that doing so would be dumb, and that I am not dumb.
Another person might say, well, you would expect us to think that you weren't dumb!!! WIFOM! WIFOM! But it never works that way. Scum doesn't do stupid things in the hope that others will see them as townie. It is too risky.
I don't think that you were dumb, but it really doesn't look like you were taking the Kooshie lynch seriously when you left. It was not at that point apparent that the lynch would go through. liopoil's wagon had about the same amount of votes at the time. You might have commented if you thought it was seriously going to happen, but not if you thought it was just going to be a blip at the time. When you reappeared it was already twilight, and it would be hard to express an opinion on the matter that anyone would take seriously.
And I find it hard to believe anything you spin so far after the fact. You've had plenty of time to come up with something believable if you were scum, and if you are town and telling the truth, I apologize, but I have no way of telling the difference.
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well that is fair. Like I said I don't blame you for your vote. It is wrong, but I can understand why you think it is a good vote.
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yuma, the problem I have with what you're saying at the moment is that the exact argument you're giving as to why you're not scum can equally be applied to me. I also did not comment on the Kooshie lynch because I also was not particularly engaged with the game and the time and I also would have done something about it one way or another if I was scum. And yet I "fit the bill for scum", even though we have a very recent example showing that the way I play as scum is entirely different than at least the way I was playing this game for the first 1.5 days. If you're going to apply the meta argument to yourself, then you need to apply it to others as well.
Also, despite the general consensus, I don't think mail-mi was a terrible lynch that Townies should have known better about.
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yuma, the problem I have with what you're saying at the moment is that the exact argument you're giving as to why you're not scum can equally be applied to me. I also did not comment on the Kooshie lynch because I also was not particularly engaged with the game and the time and I also would have done something about it one way or another if I was scum. And yet I "fit the bill for scum", even though we have a very recent example showing that the way I play as scum is entirely different than at least the way I was playing this game for the first 1.5 days. If you're going to apply the meta argument to yourself, then you need to apply it to others as well.
No I completely understand. We are very similar in that respect. And that is why I don't blame people for nor am I surprised that they are voting for me. Because like I said, from a neutral standpoint, it appears to be a good lynch and if I were in their shoes I would also consider voting for yuma. However, I know that I am town and that it is bad lynch. But just because it is a bad lynch for me, doesn't mean it is a bad lynch for you.
Also remember that the crux of my argument was that you had direct interactions with kooshie--in that you were the biggest town read. The case on me lacks anything to compare to that.
Furthermore, I believe that I have been more "pro-town" than you in trying to be a leader and move this game forward--not guaranteed townie things, but generally considered more townie than scummy. But I am biased, so maybe someone else should determine if that is the case or not.
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Yuma has had the same read I had on mcmc day one of MXXI, the guy that looks suspiciously towny. I might vote for him, but I'm not sure.
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Yuma has had the same read I had on mcmc day one of MXXI, the guy that looks suspiciously towny. I might vote for him, but I'm not sure.
all I ask is that if you consider voting me, contrast me to the other people in the same boat as me: archetype, ozle and Jimmmm.
I maintain that I am confident when compared side by side I am the more townie, I am also confident that there is scum within this subset. My best bet is archetype, followed closely by Jimmm.
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Yuma has had the same read I had on mcmc day one of MXXI, the guy that looks suspiciously towny. I might vote for him, but I'm not sure.
all I ask is that if you consider voting me, contrast me to the other people in the same boat as me: archetype, ozle and Jimmmm.
I maintain that I am confident when compared side by side I am the more townie, I am also confident that there is scum within this subset. My best bet is archetype, followed closely by Jimmm.
So you find Ozle almost as towny as you find yourself?
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Yuma has had the same read I had on mcmc day one of MXXI, the guy that looks suspiciously towny. I might vote for him, but I'm not sure.
all I ask is that if you consider voting me, contrast me to the other people in the same boat as me: archetype, ozle and Jimmmm.
I maintain that I am confident when compared side by side I am the more townie, I am also confident that there is scum within this subset. My best bet is archetype, followed closely by Jimmm.
So you find Ozle almost as towny as you find yourself?
No. Not all. To use theorel's percentage system. I am 100% town. Ozle I would say is 50%. Archetype and Jimmm are closer to 25%
I do have more of a townread on ozle. Not huge, but certainly more townie than the other two.
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Also remember that the crux of my argument was that you had direct interactions with kooshie--in that you were the biggest town read. The case on me lacks anything to compare to that.
Unless I'm forgetting something, the crux of your argument is based entirely on one post:
So many people! I get them confused when I try to put into words what I think of them, but I'll try my best on who I can call to mind. Maybe do a few rereads, even.
Jimm: Contributing, giving opinions, no reads, really, but otherwise very towny. Actually, not many people have put in reads. So, Lekkit, why point at me?
Raerae: Not much of a read, kinda towny. Is Jimm's vote still on her? I can't remember the reason. At one point he voted her just because she said not to, if they were voting because of lurking.
Ashersky: Right now all I can think of is his tells. He's pretty much stopped doing that, but it might take a little before something more solid enters my mind.
Liopoil: ahhh, him. Don't like how he's tunneling and won't say for a second that I might possibly be town. How can he be so sure? Oh, yeah, if I get lynched and flip town, he's in a teensy bit of trouble. He seems surer than he should be, though.
Jorbles: town vibes, but a bit of sheeping might have been in there. Nothing serious, though.
Mail-mi: Sheeeeeeeeeeeepy.
Lekkit: also rather sheeping liopoil. When he said he like liopoil's case on me and defended it, he still didn't vote for me. He did soon after, but why not then?
Kooshie wasn't defending me, at that stage no one seemed to be suspicious of me as far as I can remember. If Kooshie was trying to save me from being lynched, then sure, but how often do scum actually call their teammates as "very towny" unprompted? In my experience in LoTR, I was perhaps over-cautious not to say I had a Townread on sudgy, and would not do so unless I had a very good reason to, such as everyone else was. To me, even without knowing that I'm Town, this seems much more like scum forcing reads out and having to choose someone to call Towny. I mean, I wouldn't go so far as to say that just because Kooshie called me Towny I can't possibly be scum, but surely in most lists like this from scum, they don't name a teammate as their top Town read. If I'm looking exclusively at this list trying to figure out who one of Kooshie's teammates is, the best I can do is to look at Jorbles, or maybe raerae, both buried somewhere in the middle of the list and both "reads" on them sort of hedgy but leaning Town.
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Yuma has had the same read I had on mcmc day one of MXXI, the guy that looks suspiciously towny. I might vote for him, but I'm not sure.
all I ask is that if you consider voting me, contrast me to the other people in the same boat as me: archetype, ozle and Jimmmm.
I maintain that I am confident when compared side by side I am the more townie, I am also confident that there is scum within this subset. My best bet is archetype, followed closely by Jimmm.
So you find Ozle almost as towny as you find yourself?
No. Not all. To use theorel's percentage system. I am 100% town. Ozle I would say is 50%. Archetype and Jimmm are closer to 25%
I do have more of a townread on ozle. Not huge, but certainly more townie than the other two.
Not that the numbers matter much, but for both of me and Arch, you're 75% sure that we're scum? Also, I think theorel's system measured scumminess rather than Towniness.
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Yuma has had the same read I had on mcmc day one of MXXI, the guy that looks suspiciously towny. I might vote for him, but I'm not sure.
all I ask is that if you consider voting me, contrast me to the other people in the same boat as me: archetype, ozle and Jimmmm.
I maintain that I am confident when compared side by side I am the more townie, I am also confident that there is scum within this subset. My best bet is archetype, followed closely by Jimmm.
So you find Ozle almost as towny as you find yourself?
No. Not all. To use theorel's percentage system. I am 100% town. Ozle I would say is 50%. Archetype and Jimmm are closer to 25%
I do have more of a townread on ozle. Not huge, but certainly more townie than the other two.
Not that the numbers matter much, but for both of me and Arch, you're 75% sure that we're scum? Also, I think theorel's system measured scumminess rather than Towniness.
I don't know... I guess what I should have said was that I am twice as confident in your and arch's lynch as I am in Ozle's who I consider to be somewhere around 50/50.
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I disagree. Town does it. I did it on EFHW in MXX, Galz did it on mcmc in MXIX. But even more importantly was the way that kooshie gave that read on you. Guaranteed to include at least one scumbuddy in that mix, to do otherwise is just too obvious. You will also note that you are the only one on that list that wasn't on wagon. So either there was someone bussing in that list--which I grant you is a possibility--or you are the scumbuddy.
Out of everyone on that list, you were the scummiest.
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Do you mean scum does it?
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Do you mean scum does it?
yes
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Vote Count 3.4
Archetype (1) -- yuma
Lekkit (3) -- Archetype, sudgy, raerae
Ozle (1) -- ashersky
yuma (3) -- Eevee, Lekkit, Jorbles
Not Voting (4) -- Ozle, mcmcsalot, Jimm, Insomniac
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. There are 20 days remaining. Deadline is May 6 at 7:00 PM.
So here we are. What's the plan at this point?
From this, it looks like Lekkit and yuma are the viable lynches (subject to change, of course).
Lekkit seems to get votes for overall lurking, except to swoop in with some content on occasion. Any other strong points against him?
Yuma gets votes for being off the scum wagon and on the town wagon and for leading town. Yuma playing a strong town game can be a scum!yuma tell, given his propensity to seem very townie when he's scum. He has also led town in such a way that he doesn't get suspected enough.
Anything else there?
We still have time (19 days or so total), but as this has slowed down, I thought I'd ask the question.
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Should we do a ranking or percentage thingy again to get some thoughts down on paper and stuff to talk about again?
Scummy to Towny List:
Ozle >>> Jorbles >>> mcmcsalot >>> Eevee >>> Lekkit >>> Insomniac >>> yuma >>> sudgy/raerae/Archetype/Jimmmmm >>> ashersky
The four with slashes are nullish towny reads. I'm worried at least one of them is an under-the-radar scum (probably raerae).
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Should we do a ranking or percentage thingy again to get some thoughts down on paper and stuff to talk about again?
Scummy to Towny List:
Ozle >>> Jorbles >>> mcmcsalot >>> Eevee >>> Lekkit >>> Insomniac >>> yuma >>> sudgy/raerae/Archetype/Jimmmmm >>> ashersky
The four with slashes are nullish towny reads. I'm worried at least one of them is an under-the-radar scum (probably raerae).
I'll be honest. I don't know how you can have archetype in your "nullish/townie" read. Care to explain that a bit further?
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Should we do a ranking or percentage thingy again to get some thoughts down on paper and stuff to talk about again?
Scummy to Towny List:
Ozle >>> Jorbles >>> mcmcsalot >>> Eevee >>> Lekkit >>> Insomniac >>> yuma >>> sudgy/raerae/Archetype/Jimmmmm >>> ashersky
The four with slashes are nullish towny reads. I'm worried at least one of them is an under-the-radar scum (probably raerae).
I'll be honest. I don't know how you can have archetype in your "nullish/townie" read. Care to explain that a bit further?
I've just got nothing on him. No one will repeat whatever the case on him was. I just see him as a lurker in this game. Wouldn't fight his lynch, I guess, but he just isn't as scummy as Ozle and Jorbles, my preferred lynches.
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You have 7-9 people who you'd rather lynch than Arch, but you wouldn't fight his lynch?
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You have 7-9 people who you'd rather lynch than Arch, but you wouldn't fight his lynch?
I have seven people I have varying scum reads on. At this point, in this game, I don't know that I'd fight anyone's lynch. The only person I am sure is town is me.
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Scum to town. Take into account this is done with no reread just following along,
I am totally burned out on this game and trying to get back in.
Also I forgot arch was sparky, I though sparky was towny but that was a while ago.
Scum- Jimm, arch, ozzle
Slight scum- Yuma, raerae, eevee, ash
Slight town- lekkit, sudgy
Town- insom, jorbles
Scum <-> Town
Sooo yea there ya go, the slight scum reads could move very easily, it's less of a slight
Scum list but a potential scum list and willing to lynch if I find them scummy.
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Alright, the case on Archetype:
the sparky era:
37 posts
- first 11 posts are all RVS and theory talk (fair enough, it is early).
- calls ashersky's style annoying, says I am hard to read, calls out insomniac for not posting much
- 6 more theory/fluff posts
- would vote insomniac, but hesitant because he has so many votes, at that point he had 4.
- calls out kooshie for a scum slip; first time mentioning kooshie, says the case is worth a reread (at this point kooshie is at 4 votes I think (note that here is the time when I mention that scum would and should at least note a scum partner. The wagon is growing, they need to either start to defend or getting in line to buss if it comes to that... this is exactly what sparky was doing. And exactly what I didn't do at the same time, because I wasn't worried about a scummate!)
- asks kooshie some questions, more suspicious
- puts support behind lynch, still doesn't vote
- asks mcmc for his thoughts on mail-mi, expresses a scum read, perhaps considering getting an alternate wagon going to deflect from kooshie?
- eevee calls out kooshie for being scummy saying, "sparky's general attitude towards the impending kooshie lynch seem scummy to me. Looks like he is looking for a safe way to get this lynch through."
- sparky responds saying he wouldn't put someone to L-1 w/o a consensus. This screams to me of scum trying to play it safe; being willing to join in on a buss, but not wanting to do so.
- says it is because he learned to be cautious from playing scum a lot.
day2:
- inclined to look on wagon for bussers
- says xeiron swiped his vote
- townie read on lio
- scummy read on insmoniac, reiterates his reason for not putting kooshie to l-1.
- some more talk about the kooshie wagon and insomniac
- says he can be easily frustrated as scum
The archetype era:
18 posts:
day 2:
- first four posts are promising a reread, (fair he is just coming in and that day2 was starting to get dense)
- big points from his reread are: map claim is bad (theory), town reads on (ash, raerae, Ozle) scum reads on (jimmm, jorbles and mail-mi). But his reasons are... flawed. his reason for ash is "not sure why." go see for yourselves, after a reread, he doesn't give much.
- quotes cases on jimmmm "saying" This, but then says he isn't sold on the Jimmmm case
- explains why he has a scum read on Jimmm further and explains some things that he said incorrectly
- backs off his scum read on Jimmm pretty significantly, ends up voting for mail-mi for basically being "sheepy"
- again talking about mail-mi, but doesn't really say why
- talks about a soft deadline
- reverts back to a Jimmm vote, again quite a change from where he was previously
- calls hedging a scum tell (lio)
- back to mail-mi again, says we should analyze jimmm today (has archetype done that... I am going to guess no...)
- end of day interaction with mail-mi
Day3
- opens up with a ? Lekkit vote? I am pretty sure that came out of no where. He had never mentioned Lekkit before. But! in the post above Jorbles posts a vote for archetype, within it is a list of scumminess that Jorbles makes that says "raerae, Insomniac, Archetype and especially Lekkit... especially Lekkit. Made an unacceptably small contribution to discussion yesterday. d2 was really long and they made 7 posts or less. That combined with my previous wagon analysis makes me vote: Archetype." So archetype see this vote on him, goes AH! reads that Jorbles has a scum read on Lekkit, and decides to deflect. Also says that Jorbles and Lekkit are his prefered lynches for today. What happened to Jimmm, Archetype?
- I post a case on him on how I think the above is deflecting. He never responds.
- says he is VLA. Something I didn't know about, but I'll take his word for it.
In summary:
- heavy lurker. Definitely toward the bottom in terms of both posts and content.
- easily could have been setting up a potential buss day1 on kooshie, but was too hesitant.
- reacted to the beginning of a wagon on a scumbuddy exactly how I would expect scum to react.
- reads that looked very artificial,
- changing reads on jimmm, not following through on jimmmm today
- his deflection vote on lekkit that came out of no where.
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you know what my favorite thing in mafia is?
six hour long lulls when we have a soft deadline in two days!
JK. That isn't my favorite at all.
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you know what my favorite thing in mafia is?
six hour long lulls when we have a soft deadline in two days!
JK. That isn't my favorite at all.
Hey, not my fault. I posted. Then it was night here.
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This is a good point. I am willing to lynch yuma, but I'll also switch to Archetype or Jimmmm if those lynches look more likely. Who hasn't been voting recently?
Ozle, mcmc, Jimmmm and Insomniac, if you're still not voting what's going on with that? Also weird coincidence that everyone who isn't voting now was also off the Kooshie wagon?
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This is a good point.
The nonsensical point that I was referring to was that the soft deadline is approaching.
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Since I proposed the popsquiz, only myself and mcmc have done it. Yuma and Jorbles have posted without doing it. No one else has posted. WTF?
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Since I proposed the popsquiz, only myself and mcmc have done it. Yuma and Jorbles have posted without doing it. No one else has posted. WTF?
I answered, just not in the manner you wished...
for me it is archetype/Jimmmm.... all other players.... yuma
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another post count: compare this to the previous one:
Day1 post count Day 2 post count
1. Jimm: 35 77
2. raerae: 26 30
3. yuma: 29 118
4. ashersky: 42 100
5. Insomniac: 10 17
6. Eevee: 21 56
7. Jorbles: 15 41
8. liopoil: 92 124
9. sparky5856 Archetype: 26 31
10. mcmcsalot: 32 69
11. sudgy: 33 44
12. xeiron: 13
13. Lekkit: 16 18
14. Ozle: 65 88
15. Kooshie: 38
16. mail-mi: 39 55
This is total post for the whole game. Subtract the numbers above to get day3 posts (in parenthesis)
1. Jimm - 137 (25)
2. raerae - 64 (8 )
3. yuma - 203 (56)
4. ashersky - 175 (33)
5. Insomniac - 30 (3)
6. Eevee - 100 (23)
7. Jorbles - 73 (17)
9. sparky5856 Archetype 37+22=59 (2)
10. mcmcsalot - 120 (19)
11. sudgy - 96 (19)
13. Lekkit - 52 (18)
14. Ozle - 169 (16)
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I could see myself lynching Archetype or ashersky instead of yuma, but I would prefer yuma.
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Since I proposed the popsquiz, only myself and mcmc have done it. Yuma and Jorbles have posted without doing it. No one else has posted. WTF?
Sorry I missed it. I'll do it quickly now.
Scummy--->towny
Archetype/Jimmmmm/yuma >>> Insomniac/Lekkit/mcmc >>> Ozle/raerae/ashersky >>> Eevee/sudgy >>> Me
Okay I'm out for the day (pub quiz night), but I hope things pick up, by the time I check in tomorrow.
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Since I proposed the popsquiz, only myself and mcmc have done it. Yuma and Jorbles have posted without doing it. No one else has posted. WTF?
I answered, just not in the manner you wished...
for me it is archetype/Jimmmm.... all other players.... yuma
Based on your post count, would you agree that it feels like Jimmmmm has upped his activity but not his content contributions?
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Since I proposed the popsquiz, only myself and mcmc have done it. Yuma and Jorbles have posted without doing it. No one else has posted. WTF?
I answered, just not in the manner you wished...
for me it is archetype/Jimmmm.... all other players.... yuma
Based on your post count, would you agree that it feels like Jimmmmm has upped his activity but not his content contributions?
not really...
Reading back he does have a lot of short posts, sort of those reaction posts you know? The type of post that someone makes immediately in response to something someone says because they are online at the time it was said.
But he has been pretty analytical in regard to sudgy, mcmc, lekkit (big conversation with lekkit), yuma.
It is how I would expect jimmm to play regardless of alignment. I do believe that his previous lurkiness was due to RL business and a focus on another game wrapping up that required his full attention. But I also believe that he may have used that business to cover for his scumminess day2.
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I still firmly don't believe Jimm would play like that as scum. Seems like a disinterested townie more than anything really. Fits the bill too, with this being a large game with everyone being a relative VT and all.
So,
scummy people:
mcmc, yuma, Ozle, Archetype, Insomniac
Others, meh. The meta read on him maybe a bit more than cancels him being off the Kooshie wagon. Jorbles is someone I'm noticing often feels scummy to me, as does Lekkit. Ashersky I think is towny. Others I have very little on. Hard to keep track of such large games, especially after the day 1 scum lynch sort of brought the spotlight on a small subset of people.
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The meta read on him maybe a bit more than cancels him being off the Kooshie wagon.
who is him in this sentence?
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The meta read on him maybe a bit more than cancels him being off the Kooshie wagon.
who is him in this sentence?
Sorry, tired. Jimm.
I think he is towny for appearing disinterested and playing bad (sad as it is), but he is still scummy for not voting for Kooshie.
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I'm not going to go into full analysis at this point but I'll say what I can about each other person off the top of my head.
raerae: Can't remember much of what she's said. Slight scumread based on lack of activity.
yuma: Who knows really? Hasn't felt as polished as say MnM when he was scum. On the other hand, he does seem to be making big assumptions based on almost a formulaic approach: scum's biggest Townread is probscum, people who voted a certain way are probscum, without backing that up with a lot of actual particular reasons. Maybe they were there, I can't remember, but the assumptions seem to be his main arguments.
ashersky: Maybe this comes from bias, I'm not sure, but seems Towny for finding me Towny based on comparing this game to LoTR.
Insomniac: Agrees with me on sudgy, so that's a point in his favour from my point of view.
Eevee: Similar to ash.
Jorbles: Can't seem to remember much that he's said.
sparky5856 Archetype: Neutral. yuma's case looks decent, I'll have to look into that further.
mcmcsalot: Despite wanting to find him scummy for accusing me of being scummy, I am leaning Town. One reason for that is his continuing to argue against me even when others started finding me Towny/less scummy. I feel like scum mcmc is more likely to follow the crowd? I feel differently about yuma on this, though, I can totally see scum yuma sticking with his "read".
sudgy: Still my biggest scumread. I really feel like his reasons for arguing for me and then backflip on that once I called him out on it were fake. I understand why people don't want to lynch him today, and hopefully the key thing can help shed some light one way or another.
Lekkit: I find him fairly scummy for saying he thought I was Town but would support lynching me.
Ozle: Who knows? Leaning slight Town for how loud and in people's faces he's been at times, but I could easily be wrong.
So, if I had to put an order on scumminess:
sudgy > Lekkit > yuma > raerae > Jorbles/Arch > Ozle > mcmc > Insom > Eevee > ash
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Oh sudgy is definitely in the scummy category here too. Raerae maybe too by PoE, but that's not really fair, she's clearly just busy.
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to figure out where everyone stands on me:
voting for me: eevee, lekkit, jorbles
Would vote for me but have not yet: Jimmmm, sudgy
In the middle: ashersky
Won't vote for me: yuma
Has not said anything about me: archetype, insmoniac, raerae, ozle, mcmc (listed me as slight scum, but didn't indicate if he would vote for me or not)
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Just got back from V/LA, and thought I'd talk briefly before jumping right back in tomorrow.
yuma or Lekkit are my preffered lynches for today.
For yuma: Not strictly OMGUS (but that IS definitally a factor whenever you vote for someone already voting for you, not matter how hard you try and deny it), but he was acting fairly strange yesterday. He was on the mail-mi lynch (but I don't have much room to talk, I was on that terrible wagon too), but he was also off the Kooshie lynch (...which tenically I was too, but I've read back and wondered why sparky never voted considering how hard he pushed it).
He's also been leading the Town. A lot. I've played one game when he was scum, and have watched one with him as scum. And he is amazing at playing scum, especially when he's in that driver's seat position. This is more of just personal paranoia than actual evidence, but I just don't want this to be a repeat of M&Ms.
For Lekkit:
He's generally been lurky (Though I guess you could say so have I. But I've been V/LA, not lurky. But I guess a lot people do call V/LA lurking so there's that.) and that whole "Jimmmmm's town, but I'm going to vote for him to speed up his lynch" thing was just soooo scummy. The problem is, the same thing happened with mail-mi, who flipped Town. And I don't really want a repeat of his lynch.
I'm going to leave my vote on Lekkit for now, but could easily switch to yuma. I'd rather Lekkit get lynched today though, because yuma does a good job of leading the Town, when town.
As a whole, people need to step up their game. Rereading a bit of D2 as really shown me how:
1. Someone will brings up a decent case
2. A group of people jump on to that bandwagon
3. Someone brings up another case
4. The same group jumps on that
This just goes around and around, wasting bankable time until a soft deadline is actually enforced and someone gets lynched. Usually it's just whatever case is being looked at that day, regardless if it's a good one or not.
There's probably one lurking scum amongst the group of bandwagoners (sudgy, raerae, Lekkit, etc), but I'm pretty sure the rest are Town that really need to just into this game. Including me.
That's about it for now. I'll talk to you guys tomorrow to hopefully give some reads and see if we can narrow down the scumpool based on the two lynches.
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Archetype, I don't think I ever voted for Jimm, and I would never have done it to speed up his lynch. I just said that I wouldn't fight it that much and could probably be swqued to vote for him if there were no other possible lynch. You and Jimm both seem to think I was voting early for a town-read. That's not what I did.
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You and Jimm both seem to think I was voting early for a town-read. That's not what I did.
Uh, no I never said that.
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I know, but I get the feeling like I might as well had, in your eyes.
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He's also been leading the Town. A lot. I've played one game when he was scum, and have watched one with him as scum. And he is amazing at playing scum, especially when he's in that driver's seat position. This is more of just personal paranoia than actual evidence, but I just don't want this to be a repeat of M&Ms.
Ok... I am going to say this again, mostly because it is the only defense I have...
You call my play as scum, "amazing." I thank you for the compliment. But I ask you to actually look at my behavior this game and see if it fits the category of "amazing scum play." Because I think if I am playing as scum, the last thing I want to do is completely ignore my partner when their wagon gets to 4 votes. At that point "amazing play" is to either defend really hard, a la M&M, which you reference, or buss and make sure I am either on or contributing to that wagon. But, I didn't.
Now some will say, as I have mentioned before, "Well you were just planning on playing bad so that when you got in this situation you could argue that point! WIFOM!" And as I mentioned before, that is crazy talk. Because scum doesn't do stupid things to later go back and pull out that card. They just don't. Why? Because it is wayyyyy too risky! All it takes is one person noticing it and boom! You are some deep trouble with town. And scum--at least this guy when he is playing scum--doesn't like to do wildly risky and stupid things.
Furthermore, if I was scum, I would not have forgotten my town reads on mail-mi. I would have stuck to my guns and continued to vote Jimmm or mcmc all day2 long. But I didn't. I admit that this point is more debatable as people can argue once again, that I could have planned to play that way and hope that people would find me townier for it, but like I said, that style of play is practically suicide for scum. Jumping all over the town isn't how I play scum. Again see M&M where I gunned for Qvist and mcmc all game long and tried to force those lynches through.
What is the takeaway... every game that yuma has played as scum as a veteran (I am not counting MIII, MV, where I learned a lot of lessons from bad scum play) he has either 1. defended his scum buddies ridiculously or 2. bussed his scum buddies (or been bussed by his scum buddy). Scum!yuma doesn't just sit by and watch his partner go down. Nor does he go bonkers all over the place voting. He maintains a consistent, constant pressure on a few individuals and sticks to that until it happens.
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One more point I want to make:
Quote from: ashersky on March 29, 2013, 05:00:19 pm
FoS: Yuma
He's too good to trust, was off-wagon, and has been pushing an off-wagon lynch in a pro-town way. He's successfully deflected any attention away from him by driving the convo. See MnM for textbook Yuma scum.
I don't think you can FoS yuma for playing in a pro town way. So unfair. Yeah, he is one of the very few guys who are capable of playing this type of a game as scum, but still. Playing in a (seemingly) pro-town way and well simply CAN NOT make him more scummy!! Unless you claim he (seemingly) plays town better as scum?
The above is a quote from eevee that--sorry I pulled from the print screen, hence the funky quoting format--applied here. I know it is a slightly different situation, but I think the premise of what eevee is saying here still applies.
Here ash was voting for me because I am "too good to trust" and because I was "being pro-town."
And eevee comes in and says that voting for me for being "pro-town" is unfair. Basically saying that just because I am good at being scum doesn't mean I am being scum in this game.
I realize that no one is voting me just because of this. But I have seen a lot of people basically say, "I have been tricked by him before and I don't want to be again."
I would urge you to put that idea out of your mind, because it isn't something that is concrete or evidence, it is just yourself playing mind games with yourself. And focus more on the actual evidence. If you think the actual evidence points in my direction, then, sure vote for me. I will understand, you will be wrong, but I will understand. But don't vote for me just because you want to make sure you aren't being tricked by me.
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I realize that no one is voting me just because of this. But I have seen a lot of people basically say, "I have been tricked by him before and I don't want to be again."
I definitely think like this though. Your defense is starting to make sense, I feel an urge to unvote. But, scum yuma has done it so many times before - fooled me completely. So, you delivering a believable defense for your scummy actions IS different than someone else doing it. We have evidence of you being crafty, slick and winning games as scum because of it. Of course we are worried you are pulling one over on us again.
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@Yuma I'm going to make a big post a bit later today but it's hard to feel like its worth the investment if when I post no one even acknowledges the post which is what I was getting at.
When I made my last post, it was like I never even made the post because STILL no one has remarked on it but you, and that was to say your saying things we already said before. Well thats nice and I read what you said before, that doesn't mean I don't want to have a discussion with it now because I clearly do.
The post I will make later will be some voting analysis, something that we aren't doing for some reason and are still stuck on the day 1 wagon for even though we have another wagon we could look at.
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looking forward to see what you have to say
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I realize that no one is voting me just because of this. But I have seen a lot of people basically say, "I have been tricked by him before and I don't want to be again."
I definitely think like this though. Your defense is starting to make sense, I feel an urge to unvote. But, scum yuma has done it so many times before - fooled me completely. So, you delivering a believable defense for your scummy actions IS different than someone else doing it. We have evidence of you being crafty, slick and winning games as scum because of it. Of course we are worried you are pulling one over on us again.
I feel like we're getting a bit past the actual reasons for voting for yuma, which are that his voting history is scummy. At least for me, it doesn't have to do with this meta argument about being tricked or not tricked, or at least not mostly. yuma's voting (and lack of voting) makes him one of the scummier players in the game in my eyes.
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I realize that no one is voting me just because of this. But I have seen a lot of people basically say, "I have been tricked by him before and I don't want to be again."
I definitely think like this though. Your defense is starting to make sense, I feel an urge to unvote. But, scum yuma has done it so many times before - fooled me completely. So, you delivering a believable defense for your scummy actions IS different than someone else doing it. We have evidence of you being crafty, slick and winning games as scum because of it. Of course we are worried you are pulling one over on us again.
I feel like we're getting a bit past the actual reasons for voting for yuma, which are that his voting history is scummy. At least for me, it doesn't have to do with this meta argument about being tricked or not tricked, or at least not mostly. yuma's voting (and lack of voting) makes him one of the scummier players in the game in my eyes.
I acknowledge that and have in previously and do not dispute your reasons for voting me, but what I am saying is that of the three other players that fit into the same bill as me (Arch, Jimm, Ozle), I am the one being voted because in addition to the things you say above, people are worried that I am being super sneaky. And I think that is a problem, because it means they are putting their feelings and worries over actually finding out who among us is more likely to be scum. I continue to maintain that the most likely and the more logical is Archetype.
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Vote Count 3.5
Archetype (1) -- yuma
Lekkit (3) -- Archetype, sudgy, raerae
Ozle (1) -- ashersky
yuma (3) -- Eevee, Lekkit, Jorbles
Not Voting (4) -- Ozle, mcmcsalot, Jimm, Insomniac
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. There are 18 days remaining. Deadline is May 6 at 7:00 PM.
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With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is May 6 at 7:00 PM.[/b]
So the day started April 11 at ~ 2 forum time. I would suggest a soft deadline for one week later, April 18 at the same time (2 pm forum time). I don't think we want to take the time to go into the next weekend.
Could we push it back to the 19th? I will be v/la the 17th and 18th with zero access.
I suppose we could do that. But if we do Friday we need the deadline to be morning or mid-morning forum time... The earlier the better Friday as Friday nights forum time are dead around here lately.
I know I am not an IC, but I feel like I am the only one interested in making sure we meet our soft deadline. Which is April 19 at 2 pm forum time.
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Sorry guys, been relatively busy.
Anyway, my scummy-ish reads are Lekkit, yuma, and Archetype. Raerae, for lurking, is in between scummy-ish and null. Can't think of anybody I have a big town read on.
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So help me lynch Ozle. He's in "Barcelona," which is clearly some made up fairy tale land to cover his scummy lurking.
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With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is May 6 at 7:00 PM.[/b]
So the day started April 11 at ~ 2 forum time. I would suggest a soft deadline for one week later, April 18 at the same time (2 pm forum time). I don't think we want to take the time to go into the next weekend.
Could we push it back to the 19th? I will be v/la the 17th and 18th with zero access.
I suppose we could do that. But if we do Friday we need the deadline to be morning or mid-morning forum time... The earlier the better Friday as Friday nights forum time are dead around here lately.
I know I am not an IC, but I feel like I am the only one interested in making sure we meet our soft deadline. Which is April 19 at 2 pm forum time.
I'll decide my final vote after Insomniac's post.
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Alright so let's have a look see at the two wagons that resulted in a lynch. Color coding some things for clarity (Green are conf town, red are conf scum)
Kooshie - liopoil, Eevee, Jorbles, sudgy, Lekkit, mail-mi, ashersky, raerae, xeiron
Off wagon - mcmcsalot, yuma, jimmmm, Insomniac, Ozle, sparky (Archetype)
mail-mi - Jimm, liopoil, Lekkit, Archetype, raerae, yuma, Ozle, mail-mi
Let's have a look at some relevant intersections then shall we. Listing only still alive players
Off Kooshie, On Mail-mi - yuma, Jimm, Ozle, Archetype
ON Kooshie, ON Mail-mi - Lekkit, raerae
ON KOOSHIE, OFF MAIL-MI - Eevee, Jorbles, sudgy, ashersky
On Neither - mcmsalot, Insomniac
This is a listing of all 12 still alive players. 3 of which are scum.
Now for the rest of this post I will use OFF,ON notation to denote whether you were on the kooshie wagon and on the mail-mi wagon respectively
OFF-ON is the most OBVIOUSLY scummy place to be. Now we've seen yuma here before but really I mean huge town vibe this game for me. I suspect probably 1 of the remaining 3 is in this pair.
ON-ON - Now we're looking at something. If I had a scum team of 4 in a 16 person game, I would BUS THE CRAP outta that person day 1. I actually think THIS is one of the scummiest places to be the other one being.
ON-OFF -This might look towniest, but i think its tied for scummiest, ON-OFF implies knowledge about peoples roles, knowledge that scum have, sure some townies probably ended up in here by dumb luck but man this is where I want to look (Bus for town cred, dissassociate for town cred)
OFF-OFF - Well I'm town, im not opposed to lynching mcmc, but eh, I don't think its particularily scummy to be here.
So to answer the pops quiz
Scummiest to least scummy
sudgy > Eevee/Jorbles/ashersky > Lekkit/raerae > Jimm/Ozle/Archetype > mcmcsalot/yuma >>>>> Insomniac
I can't vote for sudgy. You can bet on me placing a Vote: ashersky though. (I could be convinced to vote for anyone today other than mcmcsalot yuma, but prefer, Eevee/Jorbles/Ash/Sudgy)
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Thanks, Insomniac.
Really fresh, different way of looking at the state of things. I am going to look at this a bit more closely and think about it over dinner and will get back to you with my thoughts. I suggest everyone do so as well.
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I will ask what separates ash from eevee/jorbles?
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I will ask what separates ash from eevee/jorbles?
Ash is seperated from Eevee/Jorbles in that I had a scummy read on ash from his day 1 Eevee Tell, Scum Tell, town Tell, etc attitude. The other 2 are fairly scummy to though, just ash had done something I actually thought was scummy as opposed to being lurky undercontributers (like myself)
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I will ask what separates ash from eevee/jorbles?
Ash is seperated from Eevee/Jorbles in that I had a scummy read on ash from his day 1 Eevee Tell, Scum Tell, town Tell, etc attitude. The other 2 are fairly scummy to though, just ash had done something I actually thought was scummy as opposed to being lurky undercontributers (like myself)
Thanks for noticing I was around. You know, how you weren't?
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I will ask what separates ash from eevee/jorbles?
Ash is seperated from Eevee/Jorbles in that I had a scummy read on ash from his day 1 Eevee Tell, Scum Tell, town Tell, etc attitude. The other 2 are fairly scummy to though, just ash had done something I actually thought was scummy as opposed to being lurky undercontributers (like myself)
Thanks for noticing I was around. You know, how you weren't?
How is this helpful at all? Notice how I have provided analysis, most people would try to refute it instead of taking a shot at the person who provided it. Unless of course they are a politician.
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Alright so let's have a look see at the two wagons that resulted in a lynch. Color coding some things for clarity (Green are conf town, red are conf scum)
Kooshie - liopoil, Eevee, Jorbles, sudgy, Lekkit, mail-mi, ashersky, raerae, xeiron
Off wagon - mcmcsalot, yuma, jimmmm, Insomniac, Ozle, sparky (Archetype)
mail-mi - Jimm, liopoil, Lekkit, Archetype, raerae, yuma, Ozle, mail-mi
Let's have a look at some relevant intersections then shall we. Listing only still alive players
Off Kooshie, On Mail-mi - yuma, Jimm, Ozle, Archetype
ON Kooshie, ON Mail-mi - Lekkit, raerae
ON KOOSHIE, OFF MAIL-MI - Eevee, Jorbles, sudgy, ashersky
On Neither - mcmsalot, Insomniac
This is a listing of all 12 still alive players. 3 of which are scum.
Now for the rest of this post I will use OFF,ON notation to denote whether you were on the kooshie wagon and on the mail-mi wagon respectively
OFF-ON is the most OBVIOUSLY scummy place to be. Now we've seen yuma here before but really I mean huge town vibe this game for me. I suspect probably 1 of the remaining 3 is in this pair.
ON-ON - Now we're looking at something. If I had a scum team of 4 in a 16 person game, I would BUS THE CRAP outta that person day 1. I actually think THIS is one of the scummiest places to be the other one being.
ON-OFF -This might look towniest, but i think its tied for scummiest, ON-OFF implies knowledge about peoples roles, knowledge that scum have, sure some townies probably ended up in here by dumb luck but man this is where I want to look (Bus for town cred, dissassociate for town cred)
OFF-OFF - Well I'm town, im not opposed to lynching mcmc, but eh, I don't think its particularily scummy to be here.
So to answer the pops quiz
Scummiest to least scummy
sudgy > Eevee/Jorbles/ashersky > Lekkit/raerae > Jimm/Ozle/Archetype > mcmcsalot/yuma >>>>> Insomniac
I can't vote for sudgy. You can bet on me placing a Vote: ashersky though. (I could be convinced to vote for anyone today other than mcmcsalot yuma, but prefer, Eevee/Jorbles/Ash/Sudgy)
I find most of this very useful, and flawed.
I like the on/off notation, so I think we should stick with that, but for ease of reading, I'll use N/F, F/N, N/N, and F/F (N = on, F = off).
I think F/N is the most obviously scummy, as mentioned. I think any "newbie" scum will fall into this category. I think any "veteran" scum will know that this is the scummy pairing, and therefore would avoid it like the plague if possible. The caveat here is if the veteran scum is also lurking--they may not have been able to get on/off wagon like they wanted to.
I think F/F is null, and more bad town play than scummy play. F/F means you aren't using your vote (your only weapon as town) and you aren't around enough to know what's happening.
N/F and N/N are the most interesting places to look, in my opinion. The question to ask is, what's the likely composition of the remaining three scum members? We had a newbie scum lynched D1 and a newbie mistake NK on N1. I'd argue that we've looking for at least 50% newbie scum team. So F/N. The veteran leader of that scum team, though, is probably in N/F or N/N. I think veteran scum was on Kooshie early, and did NOT join the town wagon on D2.
So Insom and I agree that N/N is a place to look, but disagree on the relative scumminess of N/F and F/F.
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I will ask what separates ash from eevee/jorbles?
Ash is seperated from Eevee/Jorbles in that I had a scummy read on ash from his day 1 Eevee Tell, Scum Tell, town Tell, etc attitude. The other 2 are fairly scummy to though, just ash had done something I actually thought was scummy as opposed to being lurky undercontributers (like myself)
Thanks for noticing I was around. You know, how you weren't?
How is this helpful at all? Notice how I have provided analysis, most people would try to refute it instead of taking a shot at the person who provided it. Unless of course they are a politician.
See my next post, which includes analysis. Way to jump the gun to make me look scummy.
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Further on Insom's analysis:
I think the mcmc/Insom pair has some merit in investigating. Both are vet scum, but have different reasons for not being on either wagon. Insom wasn't around for Kooshie; mcmc vehemently defended Kooshie. Insom wasn't around for mail-mi; not sure why mcmc didn't vote for mail-mi.
I can see scum!Insom choosing to lurk his way through. But I can see town!Insom just not caring because he's a VT in a mafia game he doesn't really want to be in anyway. So I don't think Insom is more likely to be scum than town, so I don't think he's a good lynch.
I can see scum!mcmc deciding to play the "crazy defend a partner on D1" gambit, so scum points for D1. I don't have a good read on mcmc's D2, but I can see him arguing the "look, I wasn't on the town wagon" card for more town points.
Of the pair, mcmc is the better lynch, and more likely to be scum, I say.
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Off Kooshie, On Mail-mi - yuma, Jimm, Ozle, Archetype
Common sense tells us we NEED to lynch from this group. Ozle is scum, but the yuma lynch would be mighty informative. I'd rather lynch scum.
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Off Kooshie, On Mail-mi - yuma, Jimm, Ozle, Archetype
Common sense tells us we NEED to lynch from this group. Ozle is scum, but the yuma lynch would be mighty informative. I'd rather lynch scum.
Excuse me? Thats a bit of a leap as I don't find that group particularly scummy, off on is just as likely a town mistake.
That group all has a reasonable amount of experience under their belt, you really think that any of them would be in the "lol wagon analysis says your obvscum" group?
I agree the yuma lynch would be highly informative. I strongly oppose it though. (Eevee and Jorbles who I have at a high rate of scumminess are voting for him right now)
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Off Kooshie, On Mail-mi - yuma, Jimm, Ozle, Archetype
Common sense tells us we NEED to lynch from this group. Ozle is scum, but the yuma lynch would be mighty informative. I'd rather lynch scum.
Excuse me? Thats a bit of a leap as I don't find that group particularly scummy, off on is just as likely a town mistake.
That group all has a reasonable amount of experience under their belt, you really think that any of them would be in the "lol wagon analysis says your obvscum" group?
I agree the yuma lynch would be highly informative. I strongly oppose it though. (Eevee and Jorbles who I have at a high rate of scumminess are voting for him right now)
I mean, I get your point. I think Jimmmmm is town, so the other three are fair game.
I don't mean to argue we should only look at this group to lynch. I just hate to think we're going to do the normal f.ds thing of ignoring the obvious. I mean, really, we do that all the time.
I agree with you on Jorbles being scummy. He's my #2 after Ozle.
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Nice way of twisting things Ins. On one hand we have Eevee, second to join a wagon on scum and a big contributor in making that happen who didnt join in a (stupid) town lynch day 2. On the other we have the guys who werent there lynch scum day1 but were suddenly eager to join he mailmi lynch that had all the makings of an easy mislynch. Analysis = Eevee is scummy.
I think your logic is a bit backwards. Scum REALLY don't want their partner lynched day 1. They did really want mailmi yesterday, especially if one of them was one of the alternatives. Scum couldnt possible have afforded losing another member yesterday.
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Nice way of twisting things Ins. On one hand we have Eevee, second to join a wagon on scum and a big contributor in making that happen who didnt join in a (stupid) town lynch day 2. On the other we have the guys who werent there lynch scum day1 but were suddenly eager to join he mailmi lynch that had all the makings of an easy mislynch. Analysis = Eevee is scummy.
I think your logic is a bit backwards. Scum REALLY don't want their partner lynched day 1. They did really want mailmi yesterday, especially if one of them was one of the alternatives. Scum couldnt possible have afforded losing another member yesterday.
Oh comon Eevee. Thats garbage and you know it, you know in past games I've bussed a teammate on day 1, you've done the same.
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I'm not saying it's impossible. If it was, we'd know all the scum already and poor mail-mi would be alive!
Seems to me you are saying "being off the scum wagon is towny", which is just backwards.
You are seriously building a case on me for using my vote too well.
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I'm not saying it's impossible. If it was, we'd know all the scum already and poor mail-mi would be alive!
Seems to me you are saying "being off the scum wagon is towny", which is just backwards.
You are seriously building a case on me for using my vote too well.
A case can be built on Insom for not using his vote at all.
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I think so too. Certainly bad town play at the very least, which is unlike insomniac.
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So while I see Insomniac's point, and it very well may be a correct one, I have to say that it goes against everything I have been thinking this entire game.
This is mostly based off the idea that in all of the previous games until MXII bussing early, especially day1 is bad news bears for scum. Losing a partner that early has been shown to be devastating. Look at MXVII where cayvie bussed Lekkit hard and they got crushed. Or MXIX where I bussed glooble to what I thought was my benefit, but ended up being one of the contributing factors to my loss.
As such, I learned from my experience (and I think others have learned from experience or from direct observation) that bussing so strong and so hard day1 is often a bad move. As such bussing of late seems to have been on the way out.
I do acknowledge that it is a possibility, Jimmm and I had this discussion earlier... But it is extremely risky play!
In looking at your voting breakdown you basically separate it into four groups. If I had to guess I would guess that there is a scum in each of the two larger groups (On/Off, Off/On) and one split in the two smaller groups (On/On, Off/Off). So basically there is one scum for every four players. This isn't surefire, but based off it from a neutral point of view odds of hitting scum are somewhat equal in each group. But because I am in the Off/On group and know I am not scum I can eliminate myself and have a better % (again everything being neutral and assuming that scum is divided the way I outlined) of hitting scum if I vote for a player in my category. Hence my vote on archetype.
If I were to vote for someone On the kooshie wagon it would have to be someone that was late getting onto it. I think that is a much likely scenario. someone who got on it once they realized it was going through, rather than someone that bussed from the very beginning... I think ash fits this better than the other players you outline as I think he was a late comer.
Add in one important factor is that each of the two night kills have come on people ON the Kooshie wagon. I think scum in general tends to use its night kill on a person the opposite of what they are to keep a higher pool of players with similar attributes as them for town to lynch from.
That is if scum has 2 On and 1 off, scum will generally night kill someone off the wagon.
If scum has 1 off and 2 on, scum will generally night kill someone on the wagon.
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That is if scum has 2 On and 1 off, scum will generally night kill someone off the wagon.
If scum has 1 off and 2 on, scum will generally night kill someone on the wagon.
These are the same things with different results although I assume you meant 1 on and 2 off in the second scenario. But I also disagree with this, I personally like slimming the group I'm in and being GUYS WIFOM!
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That is if scum has 2 On and 1 off, scum will generally night kill someone off the wagon.
If scum has 1 off and 2 on, scum will generally night kill someone on the wagon.
These are the same things with different results although I assume you meant 1 on and 2 off in the second scenario. But I also disagree with this, I personally like slimming the group I'm in and being GUYS WIFOM!
yes, that is what I meant.
and like I said, I believe that generally that is where the night kill falls... not always but generally.
Looking back at previous games day1 NKs compared to where scum was.
MI: scum was split 1on/1off, NK was off. Neutral
MII: scum were both on, NK was off. Opposite
MIII: 1 scum on, 2 scum off. NK was off. Same
MIV: can't tell, multiple scum teams
MV: can't tell, multiple NKs
MVI: can't tell, multiple scum teams
MVII: 1 on/1off, NK was on. Neutral
MVIII: no day1 lynch
MIX: multiple night kills
MX: 1on/1off, NK was on, Neutral
MXI: multiple night kills
MXII: 1on/2off, NK was off. Same
MXIII: both on, NK was off, Opposite
MXIV: 1 on/2 off, NK was on, Opposite
MXV: 1 on/2 off, NK was off, same
MXVI: 2on/1 off, NK was on, same
MXVII: 1on/1 off (Mafia lynch), NK was off, neutral
MXVIII: multiple night kills
MXIX: multiple night kills
MXX: multiple night kills
MXXI: 1on/1off, NK was off, neutral.
I am not looking at blitz. But from a brief skip it appears that there have been 3 times where a scum team night killed on the other side of where the majority was. and 4 times where a scum team night killed on the same side was.
So I appear to be wrong, that it generally happens. But it does seem like the more basic and obvious conclusion.
Maybe that is my problem this game, I am assuming that scum is going to play obviously? Although the obvious play hasn't been disproved and I am inclined to disprove it before giving up on it.
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Done with my last event for the month but I won't be able to do a full reread by the softdeadline tomorrow. I'm happy with my vote where it is for now but will do the promised rereads of Arch & Insom tomorrow if we're still up and running.
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I'm not going to be able to get on until after the soft deadline (I think), and there doesn't seem to be any consensus as to who is going to be voted for... Could we try to figure that out?
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The best thing to do to try to figure it out is by voting for the person you want lynched. Which I assume is me. I don't think there could be a consensensus without any discussion. Ins tried, why don't you do the same?
In the meantime, I'm going to give my thoughts on his analysis.
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yuma, I assume you have reread Archetype. I wonder, you seem to think it's likelier that scum didnt bus, but Archetype clearly did. He didn't vote, but he did contribute to the wagon / all his comments about it were positive. Is that troubling to you?
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OFF-ON is the most OBVIOUSLY scummy place to be. Now we've seen yuma here before but really I mean huge town vibe this game for me. I suspect probably 1 of the remaining 3 is in this pair.
I would not be super opposed to lynching people here, I mean, look at my vote.
I don't think Ozle has been particularily scummy. The obvious thing to talk about regarding Ozle is his defense against the "case" on him. If memory serves me right, though, he was mostly just frustrated, and I could see both scum and town do that. However, I'd like to think that Ozle would play better scum than falling in the same trap that his partner did day 1. So I'm leaning town here, but not that much, and only from memory.
Jimm, I think is town.
Archetype has been lurky and not really doing much. Would be willing to lynch him.
I think yuma is scum, hence my vote on him.
ON-ON - Now we're looking at something. If I had a scum team of 4 in a 16 person game, I would BUS THE CRAP outta that person day 1. I actually think THIS is one of the scummiest places to be the other one being.
Even with 4 team members, I would not want to bus hard day 1. The one pushing hardest here was lio. Guess what he flipped. Town. I can't really remember raerae being super on the wagon, I don't even remember if she had subbed in by then. I'll go check so that I don't sound completely stupid. She was subbed in. And she didn't really push hard. Joined in the wagon pretty late, though. I would consider voting for her, but probably not today.
ON-OFF -This might look towniest, but i think its tied for scummiest, ON-OFF implies knowledge about peoples roles, knowledge that scum have, sure some townies probably ended up in here by dumb luck but man this is where I want to look (Bus for town cred, dissassociate for town cred)
I kind of agree with you here, but I don't think there's more than 1 scum in the group. My guess is that it's ashersky. When I'm scum I prefer to not be on the same place as my team mates all the time, and that's why I don't think there's more than 1 here.
OFF-OFF - Well I'm town, im not opposed to lynching mcmc, but eh, I don't think its particularily scummy to be here.
I don't think this is a scummy position either. It looks more like townies not voting.
So to answer the pops quiz
Scummiest to least scummy
sudgy > Eevee/Jorbles/ashersky > Lekkit/raerae > Jimm/Ozle/Archetype > mcmcsalot/yuma >>>>> Insomniac
I can't vote for sudgy. You can bet on me placing a Vote: ashersky though. (I could be convinced to vote for anyone today other than mcmcsalot yuma, but prefer, Eevee/Jorbles/Ash/Sudgy)
Why can't you vote for sudgy?
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One thing to note, however, is that you promise this wagon analysis and then says that there's probably three scum among 10 out of 12 players. And you would be willing to vote for the eleventh as well. That's basically you saying, anyone besides me could be scum. Not much new information here.
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yuma, I assume you have reread Archetype. I wonder, you seem to think it's likelier that scum didnt bus, but Archetype clearly did. He didn't vote, but he did contribute to the wagon / all his comments about it were positive. Is that troubling to you?
of course I reread him! Did you read my case on him?
Except that he didn't! Bussing=voting for your partner. Sparky never did that! He said he would be willing to do so, but never, ever did! Which is exactly how I would expect scum to act when their partner gets targeted day1. 1. they don't want their partner lynched, so they don't vote for him because their vote gets them one vote closer. 2. but if their partner does get lynched, they want to look townie in the process, so they say they would be willing!
And look at when sparky started talking about Kooshie. At 4 votes, right when the wagon started picking up steam. Exactly when scum has to start talking about their partner so it doesn't become apparent that they are trying to hide something!
Don't give him town credit that he doesn't deserve. and again xeiron, thanks for the derphammer man, because right now we could have used that information that you stole from town... GAH!
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yuma, I assume you have reread Archetype. I wonder, you seem to think it's likelier that scum didnt bus, but Archetype clearly did. He didn't vote, but he did contribute to the wagon / all his comments about it were positive. Is that troubling to you?
of course I reread him! Did you read my case on him?
Except that he didn't! Bussing=voting for your partner. Sparky never did that! He said he would be willing to do so, but never, ever did! Which is exactly how I would expect scum to act when their partner gets targeted day1. 1. they don't want their partner lynched, so they don't vote for him because their vote gets them one vote closer. 2. but if their partner does get lynched, they want to look townie in the process, so they say they would be willing!
And look at when sparky started talking about Kooshie. At 4 votes, right when the wagon started picking up steam. Exactly when scum has to start talking about their partner so it doesn't become apparent that they are trying to hide something!
Don't give him town credit that he doesn't deserve. and again xeiron, thanks for the derphammer man, because right now we could have used that information that you stole from town... GAH!
Okay, to me bussing=contrbuting to the lynch of your partner. Like, driving a case on him all day with a fake cop result would be the ultimate bus, what Arche (supposedly) did to Kooshie was a very mild version. Still, I think it's very different from you not mentioning him at all or mcmc outright defending him.
I mean I'm not saying Archetype is absolved from responsibility of being off-wagon, but I think his off-wagonness was not the worst kind of off-wagonness. Definitely think he is a fine lynch though.
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One more thing that has occurred to me, that I would like answered based off something eevee said, "Scum can't afford to lose another partner day2."
If I am scum, who is my partners?
Because if it is true that scum can't afford to lose another player day2 then bussing day2 just isn't going to happen! I mean, being down 2 players in 2 days, game over scum I think.
So who is my partner. It can't be anyone I voted in yesterday? Or is that assuming too much? Yesterday I voted for Jimmm, mcmc, Insomniac, Archetype, ashersky, Ozle and mail-mi.
So that means my partners must be in the mix of raerae, lekkit, eevee and jorbles? If I am going to get lynched, I think analysis should be performed to see if any of those four qualify as my partners. Notice that three of them are the three currently voting for me in lekkit, eevee and jorbles! Do you think scum would want to buss hard day3 after just starting to get back in the game?
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Okay, to me bussing=contrbuting to the lynch of your partner. Like, driving a case on him all day with a fake cop result would be the ultimate bus, what Arche (supposedly) did to Kooshie was a very mild version. Still, I think it's very different from you not mentioning him at all or mcmc outright defending him.
It is very different. I am just asking you to look at it from the eyes of scum. What is more likely that scum will just sit back and watch their partner get lynched w/o doing anything. Or would scum do something?
Again I reference MIII. We both sat back and did nothing as volt was lynched. After that it became obvious who the partners were in me and you. I was next, quickly followed by you. Our doing nothing cost us the game. I learned heavily from that experience and never, ever played scum that way again.
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Guys, yuma is winning me over. Again.
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oh and sudgy... I forgot about him. But he also voted for me yesterday.
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If yuma were scum, I'd say Ozle or I would be his most probably partner, from the outside.
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I can't vote for sudgy. You can bet on me placing a Vote: ashersky though. (I could be convinced to vote for anyone today other than mcmcsalot yuma, but prefer, Eevee/Jorbles/Ash/Sudgy)
Why can't you vote for sudgy?
[/quote]
we believe sudgy's key claim can be proven or disproven during the night tonight. Thus we isn't a great lynch for today, but if disproven could be a very good lynch tomorrow.
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That is assuming anyone is close enough to a gold room to verify that. I see the point, though.
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And this will probably kill me, but, I'm going to Unvote.
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Actually, I'll put my vote out there. And I'm going back to Vote: ashersky.
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If I had a scum team of 4 in a 16 person game, I would BUS THE CRAP outta that person day 1.
Yes. Thank you. This times ten.
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Okay, to me bussing=contrbuting to the lynch of your partner. Like, driving a case on him all day with a fake cop result would be the ultimate bus, what Arche (supposedly) did to Kooshie was a very mild version. Still, I think it's very different from you not mentioning him at all or mcmc outright defending him.
It is very different. I am just asking you to look at it from the eyes of scum. What is more likely that scum will just sit back and watch their partner get lynched w/o doing anything. Or would scum do something?
Again I reference MIII. We both sat back and did nothing as volt was lynched. After that it became obvious who the partners were in me and you. I was next, quickly followed by you. Our doing nothing cost us the game. I learned heavily from that experience and never, ever played scum that way again.
That is exactly my argument for why I think bussing was involved in Kooshie's lynch. Yes, I know it happened quickly, but what generally happened was that a bunch of people lynched her while everyone else sat back and watched. And if scum don't want to sit back and watch...
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Insomniac's post on OFF/ON
ash's post explaining his N/F notation which I like more.
The biggest problem I have with Insomniac's analysis is that he manages to say that 3 of the 4 possible voting configurations are the scummiest. (The one that's not, surprise, his own.) F/N is the OBVS SCUMMY place. N/N is the scummiest place to be, except for N/F which is tied for scummiest. The only not scummy place is Insomniac/mcmc's F/F, the smallest category. This doesn't narrow down or simplify how we should vote at all, in fact it blows up, whereas before we were arguing to lynch someone from the scummiest place, now we're looking at lynching people from everywhere because everywhere is the scummiest.
I do like that this has at least gotten some discussion going though. However I much preferred ash's poll because at least it helped us line up people we can agree on lynching. (more on that in next post.)
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Why are we so bent on figuring out what voting pattern scum would have? If we were in this exact situation a bunch of times, it would be different every time. Okay, sure scum might be in a particular group more often than other groups, so it's worth looking at. But I think saying that we must lynch someone from this particular group is not the way to go about it. I mean, yeah, it's fair enough to look closely at the group you think scum are going to be in more often than other groups, and if a particular person in that group fits the scenario well enough then you have the makings of a reasonable lynch, but for a Townie to rule out the other groups based entirely on voting patterns is terrible play. Stop telling me how some hypothetical scum would vote and start telling me why this particular playing voting and arguing that particular way makes them likely to be scum.
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So far here is the list of everyone's scummy to towny lists. (If more people do them we might be able to come to some consensus on who we should lynch. I'm going to take the bottom few(ish) from everyone and see what comes up.
Scummy to Towny List:
Ozle >>> Jorbles >>> mcmcsalot >>> Eevee >>> Lekkit >>> Insomniac >>> yuma >>> sudgy/raerae/Archetype/Jimmmmm >>> ashersky
Scum- Jimm, arch, ozzle
Slight scum- Yuma, raerae, eevee, ash
Slight town- lekkit, sudgy
Town- insom, jorbles
yuma's list is scummy to not scummy
for me it is archetype/Jimmmm.... all other players.... yuma
Scummy--->towny
Archetype/Jimmmmm/yuma >>> Insomniac/Lekkit/mcmc >>> Ozle/raerae/ashersky >>> Eevee/sudgy >>> Me
So, if I had to put an order on scumminess:
sudgy > Lekkit > yuma > raerae > Jorbles/Arch > Ozle > mcmc > Insom > Eevee > ash
Scummiest to least scummy
sudgy > Eevee/Jorbles/ashersky > Lekkit/raerae > Jimm/Ozle/Archetype > mcmcsalot/yuma >>>>> Insomniac
ash: Ozle, Jorbles, mcmc
mcmc: Jimmm, Arch, Ozle
yuma: archetype, Jimmmm
Jorbles: Archetype, Jimmmm, yuma
Jimmmm: sudgy, Lekkit, yuma
Insomniac: sudgy, Eevee, Jorbles, ashersky
With 3 people thinking they are scummy we have Jimmmm and Archetype. (all listed as scummy by mcmc, yuma, and me) ashersky probably won't lynch Arch or Jimmmm. Insomniac also probably won't based on where he's placed them. Jimmmm we can assume won't lynch himself, but might lynch Archetype as he placed him in a kindof null position.
Can more people make this list? Maybe we already are close to lynch consensus on someone and we don't realize it?
Offtopic, but I still want to talk about it:
I would like to point out that I'm in the 2 people finding me scummy spot. Insomniac has kindof said why he thinks I'm scummy, and I don't agree with him (obvs), but I see where he's coming from, if he's town anyways. I think Insomniac reads me badly though (at least I remember him being convinced I was scum in a game where I wasn't.) Maybe RM3? Not sure. ashersky has just kinda vaguely insinuated that he finds me scummy, but hasn't said why. At the risk of accidentally building a wagon on myself near our soft deadline why do you find me scummy ash? (I think Eevee has done this too, but I'm not sure. He never made a reads list.)
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Why are we so bent on figuring out what voting pattern scum would have? If we were in this exact situation a bunch of times, it would be different every time. Okay, sure scum might be in a particular group more often than other groups, so it's worth looking at. But I think saying that we must lynch someone from this particular group is not the way to go about it. I mean, yeah, it's fair enough to look closely at the group you think scum are going to be in more often than other groups, and if a particular person in that group fits the scenario well enough then you have the makings of a reasonable lynch, but for a Townie to rule out the other groups based entirely on voting patterns is terrible play. Stop telling me how some hypothetical scum would vote and start telling me why this particular playing voting and arguing that particular way makes them likely to be scum.
I still think it's useful, but it's become apparent that this line of reasoning isn't making people agree on who should be lynched. I suggest we move past it and try to find some consensus on who people think is scummy. We can still draw on these arguments for why or why we don't think someone is scummy.
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ash: Ozle, Jorbles, mcmc
mcmc: Jimmm, Arch, Ozle
yuma: archetype, Jimmmm
Jorbles: Archetype, Jimmmm, yuma
Jimmmm: sudgy, Lekkit, yuma
Insomniac: sudgy, Eevee, Jorbles, ashersky
With 3 people thinking they are scummy we have Jimmmm and Archetype. (all listed as scummy by mcmc, yuma, and me) ashersky probably won't lynch Arch or Jimmmm. Insomniac also probably won't based on where he's placed them. Jimmmm we can assume won't lynch himself, but might lynch Archetype as he placed him in a kindof null position.
Interesting that there are also at least three people (ash, Lekkit and Eevee) who seem to be fairly confident that I'm Town.
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Why are we so bent on figuring out what voting pattern scum would have? If we were in this exact situation a bunch of times, it would be different every time. Okay, sure scum might be in a particular group more often than other groups, so it's worth looking at. But I think saying that we must lynch someone from this particular group is not the way to go about it. I mean, yeah, it's fair enough to look closely at the group you think scum are going to be in more often than other groups, and if a particular person in that group fits the scenario well enough then you have the makings of a reasonable lynch, but for a Townie to rule out the other groups based entirely on voting patterns is terrible play. Stop telling me how some hypothetical scum would vote and start telling me why this particular playing voting and arguing that particular way makes them likely to be scum.
I still think it's useful, but it's become apparent that this line of reasoning isn't making people agree on who should be lynched. I suggest we move past it and try to find some consensus on who people think is scummy. We can still draw on these arguments for why or why we don't think someone is scummy.
Of course it's still useful, but I think specific cases are far more useful than trying to figure out how some unknown scum would vote.
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Actually Eevee did something like the list, but I missed it in my original read over because it was in a less identifiable format:
scummy people:
mcmc, yuma, Ozle, Archetype, Insomniac
Others, meh. The meta read on him maybe a bit more than cancels him being off the Kooshie wagon. Jorbles is someone I'm noticing often feels scummy to me, as does Lekkit. Ashersky I think is towny. Others I have very little on. Hard to keep track of such large games, especially after the day 1 scum lynch sort of brought the spotlight on a small subset of people.
This means 4 people think Archetype is scummy. The other reads make yuma and Ozle stand out a bit more.
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Offtopic, but I still want to talk about it:
I would like to point out that I'm in the 2 people finding me scummy spot. Insomniac has kindof said why he thinks I'm scummy, and I don't agree with him (obvs), but I see where he's coming from, if he's town anyways. I think Insomniac reads me badly though (at least I remember him being convinced I was scum in a game where I wasn't.) Maybe RM3? Not sure. ashersky has just kinda vaguely insinuated that he finds me scummy, but hasn't said why. At the risk of accidentally building a wagon on myself near our soft deadline why do you find me scummy ash? (I think Eevee has done this too, but I'm not sure. He never made a reads list.)
Fair point, I haven't really explained my scum read on you.
I was quasi-vocal about you on D1, but to be honest it was a long time ago and I'm not sure why anymore. So we'll ignore the scummy feelings from D1 and start fresh on D2. I think you are guilty of the Top Gunning it. (I just made that term up.) That is, you are buzzed the tower with a flurry of posts with some easy to produce content, and then swoop back into the sky (lurkiness). You were lurky, then chatty with easy content, then lurky again. You were fine pushing a lynch without seeming too invested in the reasoning (Jimmmmm's, at the time). I think there's probably a little bit of OMGUS on D2, too.
On D3, you've been townier, which I think is what scum!Jorbles does. We were scum together in LOLCats, although that wasn't much as far as structure went, so I'm not really using it as a basis to go off of. Meta-wise, we have modded together a fair bit, and played together a few games (including both our first games, where you were caught scum!), so I think I have a feel for your playstyle.
So, a mix of gut/meta/experience and Top Gunning.
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Following this game is going to be crazy hard now that I am v/la, when is our deadline?
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Following this game is going to be crazy hard now that I am v/la, when is our deadline?
If it makes it easier, feel free to give up and admit you are scum (if you are).
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Following this game is going to be crazy hard now that I am v/la, when is our deadline?
If it makes it easier, feel free to give up and admit you are scum (if you are).
It would be much easier, I'm not however(I wouldn't anyway)
But as were aproaching deadline I think I am going to
vote: jimm
Still think hes likely scum and since I am not going to be around much more this is where my vote will probably stay.
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Okay, I actually have had time to reread!(I was left alone while everyone went out to run errands, I was supposed to eat but hunger pangs are nothing compared to mafia withdrawal symptoms)
Sadly my reread didn't give me much. I want raerae's popsquiz asap, I think there is potential for one of eevee/raerae to be scum, they have played similarly and I think its a scummy way to play: low impact, protected jimm for little reasoning, and I believe raerae is in the category of bandwagon vote jumpers. Also her constant post about me are interesting, her stance is always very slight towny or very slight suspicious with chance of going either way. Now she could be town and I don't expect her to give a concrete read on me but I do think she would be more likely to give a concrete read on me as town then as scum. I think she wants to leave the option open to say I'm scummy and get me lynched, but she doesn't want to try to make a case for it either way and draw that attention to herself.
As far as the whole yuma jazz goes, I really don't know the game has gotten long enough( I believe this is the second biggest game I've been in) and in Ds9 I had no clue yuma was scum. So while I would say I lean town on him its not a strong leaning, I do agree with much of what he has said though.
Lekkit I think I need to reread from start to finish and I'll do that soon here. Same with arch because I know I found sparky towny but now arch seems scummy.
Ashersky seems to have dropped down in how visible he is this game, which I think is a scummy trait, he seems to appear and do some pushing and then melt away to drop any suspicion from him.
also I think the jimm lynch would still give us soo much to work with, I really wish it was him instead of mail-mi and now there is more of a priority to make a strong case though I think its not as easy as it should be for a day 3, I think our scum lynch day 1 gave a good amount of info but pigeonholed our day 2 especially with the mail-mi lynch. So people looking for a home run case today its not going to happen. Lynching someone for lurking or someone who has a lot of interactions isn't a terrible idea.
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Me asking ashersky why he thinks I'm scummy.
Fair point, I haven't really explained my scum read on you.
I was quasi-vocal about you on D1, but to be honest it was a long time ago and I'm not sure why anymore. So we'll ignore the scummy feelings from D1 and start fresh on D2. I think you are guilty of the Top Gunning it. (I just made that term up.) That is, you are buzzed the tower with a flurry of posts with some easy to produce content, and then swoop back into the sky (lurkiness). You were lurky, then chatty with easy content, then lurky again. You were fine pushing a lynch without seeming too invested in the reasoning (Jimmmmm's, at the time). I think there's probably a little bit of OMGUS on D2, too.
On D3, you've been townier, which I think is what scum!Jorbles does. We were scum together in LOLCats, although that wasn't much as far as structure went, so I'm not really using it as a basis to go off of. Meta-wise, we have modded together a fair bit, and played together a few games (including both our first games, where you were caught scum!), so I think I have a feel for your playstyle.
So, a mix of gut/meta/experience and Top Gunning.
I think what you call Top Gunning I would just call my schedule. When I'm busy I ignore the game, but when I am available I do my best to address what happened when I was away. I often don't have time to catch up on everything (especially in this game which is a fairly huge undertaking) I don't think what I post is "easy content", but I suspect we'll agree to disagree on that. Beyond that it sounds like you're trusting your gut, which I can't really argue with.
Did I vote for you D2? I don't remember doing that so I'm not sure why you have the OMGUS feelings. Unless you just mean that in the context of you dislike how I'm playing so you think it might be scummy, not in the hurt-feelings I-can't-believe-you-voted-for-me way.
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I'm not going to go into full analysis at this point but I'll say what I can about each other person off the top of my head.
raerae: Can't remember much of what she's said. Slight scumread based on lack of activity.
yuma: Who knows really? Hasn't felt as polished as say MnM when he was scum. On the other hand, he does seem to be making big assumptions based on almost a formulaic approach: scum's biggest Townread is probscum, people who voted a certain way are probscum, without backing that up with a lot of actual particular reasons. Maybe they were there, I can't remember, but the assumptions seem to be his main arguments.
ashersky: Maybe this comes from bias, I'm not sure, but seems Towny for finding me Towny based on comparing this game to LoTR.
Insomniac: Agrees with me on sudgy, so that's a point in his favour from my point of view.
Eevee: Similar to ash.
Jorbles: Can't seem to remember much that he's said.
sparky5856 Archetype: Neutral. yuma's case looks decent, I'll have to look into that further.
mcmcsalot: Despite wanting to find him scummy for accusing me of being scummy, I am leaning Town. One reason for that is his continuing to argue against me even when others started finding me Towny/less scummy. I feel like scum mcmc is more likely to follow the crowd? I feel differently about yuma on this, though, I can totally see scum yuma sticking with his "read".
sudgy: Still my biggest scumread. I really feel like his reasons for arguing for me and then backflip on that once I called him out on it were fake. I understand why people don't want to lynch him today, and hopefully the key thing can help shed some light one way or another.
Lekkit: I find him fairly scummy for saying he thought I was Town but would support lynching me.
Ozle: Who knows? Leaning slight Town for how loud and in people's faces he's been at times, but I could easily be wrong.
So, if I had to put an order on scumminess:
sudgy > Lekkit > yuma > raerae > Jorbles/Arch > Ozle > mcmc > Insom > Eevee > ash
I will look up this case on sudgy, Jimm is really looking townier to me based on his contributions I think ash is very wrong when he said you didn't up your contributions. Jimm you say you find eevee townie for similar reasons to ash, I didn't think eevee gave very good reasons at all for finding you townie, he was much similar to raerae who you put very far apart.
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Me asking ashersky why he thinks I'm scummy.
Fair point, I haven't really explained my scum read on you.
I was quasi-vocal about you on D1, but to be honest it was a long time ago and I'm not sure why anymore. So we'll ignore the scummy feelings from D1 and start fresh on D2. I think you are guilty of the Top Gunning it. (I just made that term up.) That is, you are buzzed the tower with a flurry of posts with some easy to produce content, and then swoop back into the sky (lurkiness). You were lurky, then chatty with easy content, then lurky again. You were fine pushing a lynch without seeming too invested in the reasoning (Jimmmmm's, at the time). I think there's probably a little bit of OMGUS on D2, too.
On D3, you've been townier, which I think is what scum!Jorbles does. We were scum together in LOLCats, although that wasn't much as far as structure went, so I'm not really using it as a basis to go off of. Meta-wise, we have modded together a fair bit, and played together a few games (including both our first games, where you were caught scum!), so I think I have a feel for your playstyle.
So, a mix of gut/meta/experience and Top Gunning.
I think what you call Top Gunning I would just call my schedule. When I'm busy I ignore the game, but when I am available I do my best to address what happened when I was away. I often don't have time to catch up on everything (especially in this game which is a fairly huge undertaking) I don't think what I post is "easy content", but I suspect we'll agree to disagree on that. Beyond that it sounds like you're trusting your gut, which I can't really argue with.
Did I vote for you D2? I don't remember doing that so I'm not sure why you have the OMGUS feelings. Unless you just mean that in the context of you dislike how I'm playing so you think it might be scummy, not in the hurt-feelings I-can't-believe-you-voted-for-me way.
Didn't look closely at this, I think ash is top gunning it so calling someone out for it is interesting. I mean obviously ash has been doing a good job of keeping posting up but I think as far as how much attention he brings he is top gunning. Ash is looking scummier in my eyes.
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To those that said I didn't provide much content because I would still lynch anyone but me, you clearly didn't understand my post so I'll make it more clear. There are exactly 4 people I want to lynch out of 12. But if we need to get a lynch I could be convinced to vote for just about anyone else the lower they are on the list the more convincing I would need however.
@Jorbles...Did you read my on off post, I mean you say you did but you come out saying I say the 3 groups that I'm not in are just as scummy and this is false. I said that OFF ON is the most obviously scummy, but I don't think its actually scummy at all. Note where I actually placed the OFF ON Group on my list. I also said that for OFF OFF I'm town so there is one person in OFF OFF, and eh I could be convinced to ynch mcmc but I think its more likely he is just in the same boat as me.
Additionally I disagree that OFF OFF means we are being bad townies not using our vote enough, even if i was around I don't think I would have supported the Kooshie or the mail-mi wagon.
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just reread that insom, your post was confusing I had thought the same thing as jorbles when I read it.
So now understanding I do like your thoughts, what do you think about my semi case on raerae?
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Vote Count 3.6
Archetype (1) -- yuma
Lekkit (3) -- Archetype, sudgy, raerae
Ozle (1) -- ashersky
yuma (2) -- Eevee, Jorbles
ashersky (2) -- Insomniac, Lekkit
Jimm (1) -- mcmcsalot
Not Voting (2) -- Ozle, Jimm
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. There are 17 days remaining. Deadline is May 6 at 7:00 PM.
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@Jorbles...Did you read my on off post, I mean you say you did but you come out saying I say the 3 groups that I'm not in are just as scummy and this is false. I said that OFF ON is the most obviously scummy, but I don't think its actually scummy at all. Note where I actually placed the OFF ON Group on my list. I also said that for OFF OFF I'm town so there is one person in OFF OFF, and eh I could be convinced to ynch mcmc but I think its more likely he is just in the same boat as me.
I did read it, but despite the fact that you claimed that OFF ON wasn't scummy you made an argument for it being scummy, which read to me like you were saying that it was both scummy and not scummy at the same time. Anyhow I understand what you mean now. Though I don't agree with it. Sometimes scum just acts scummy.
(I just realized that I don't agree with my list of reads anymore) I had forgotten about mcmc's bizarre allusions to something that happened to him at night that makes me think he's probably town. I'd move him up to the townier side of things.
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Anyhow I'm going to move my vote back to Archetype as there seems to be more consensus there, and he's one of my top 3 people to lynch. Vote: archetype.
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well I am here now... sorry my bus was a little bit delayed.
looking at the vote count above, we certainly haven't reached a consensus, not even on possible lynch candidates. Not good. How can we get a lynch going?
We don't have ozle around, sudgy is gone for a bit and mcmc isn't going to be super available.
PPE: a vote on arch. that is good.
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I could vote for arch, I do think hes scummy, I'll reread now. I just think if he flips town we get nothing and are kinda screwed.
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I already did post a scummy list.
Sorry guys, been relatively busy.
Anyway, my scummy-ish reads are Lekkit, yuma, and Archetype. Raerae, for lurking, is in between scummy-ish and null. Can't think of anybody I have a big town read on.
The only one that it seems like other people will lynch is Vote: Archetype however.
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As a reminder:
here is the case on Archetype that I made Wednesday, and I would like to point out that archetype has not responded to it in any way at all since that time.
Alright, the case on Archetype:
the sparky era:
37 posts
- first 11 posts are all RVS and theory talk (fair enough, it is early).
- calls ashersky's style annoying, says I am hard to read, calls out insomniac for not posting much
- 6 more theory/fluff posts
- would vote insomniac, but hesitant because he has so many votes, at that point he had 4.
- calls out kooshie for a scum slip; first time mentioning kooshie, says the case is worth a reread (at this point kooshie is at 4 votes I think (note that here is the time when I mention that scum would and should at least note a scum partner. The wagon is growing, they need to either start to defend or getting in line to buss if it comes to that... this is exactly what sparky was doing. And exactly what I didn't do at the same time, because I wasn't worried about a scummate!)
- asks kooshie some questions, more suspicious
- puts support behind lynch, still doesn't vote
- asks mcmc for his thoughts on mail-mi, expresses a scum read, perhaps considering getting an alternate wagon going to deflect from kooshie?
- eevee calls out kooshie for being scummy saying, "sparky's general attitude towards the impending kooshie lynch seem scummy to me. Looks like he is looking for a safe way to get this lynch through."
- sparky responds saying he wouldn't put someone to L-1 w/o a consensus. This screams to me of scum trying to play it safe; being willing to join in on a buss, but not wanting to do so.
- says it is because he learned to be cautious from playing scum a lot.
day2:
- inclined to look on wagon for bussers
- says xeiron swiped his vote
- townie read on lio
- scummy read on insmoniac, reiterates his reason for not putting kooshie to l-1.
- some more talk about the kooshie wagon and insomniac
- says he can be easily frustrated as scum
The archetype era:
18 posts:
day 2:
- first four posts are promising a reread, (fair he is just coming in and that day2 was starting to get dense)
- big points from his reread are: map claim is bad (theory), town reads on (ash, raerae, Ozle) scum reads on (jimmm, jorbles and mail-mi). But his reasons are... flawed. his reason for ash is "not sure why." go see for yourselves, after a reread, he doesn't give much.
- quotes cases on jimmmm "saying" This, but then says he isn't sold on the Jimmmm case
- explains why he has a scum read on Jimmm further and explains some things that he said incorrectly
- backs off his scum read on Jimmm pretty significantly, ends up voting for mail-mi for basically being "sheepy"
- again talking about mail-mi, but doesn't really say why
- talks about a soft deadline
- reverts back to a Jimmm vote, again quite a change from where he was previously
- calls hedging a scum tell (lio)
- back to mail-mi again, says we should analyze jimmm today (has archetype done that... I am going to guess no...)
- end of day interaction with mail-mi
Day3
- opens up with a ? Lekkit vote? I am pretty sure that came out of no where. He had never mentioned Lekkit before. But! in the post above Jorbles posts a vote for archetype, within it is a list of scumminess that Jorbles makes that says "raerae, Insomniac, Archetype and especially Lekkit... especially Lekkit. Made an unacceptably small contribution to discussion yesterday. d2 was really long and they made 7 posts or less. That combined with my previous wagon analysis makes me vote: Archetype." So archetype see this vote on him, goes AH! reads that Jorbles has a scum read on Lekkit, and decides to deflect. Also says that Jorbles and Lekkit are his prefered lynches for today. What happened to Jimmm, Archetype?
- I post a case on him on how I think the above is deflecting. He never responds.
- says he is VLA. Something I didn't know about, but I'll take his word for it.
In summary:
- heavy lurker. Definitely toward the bottom in terms of both posts and content.
- easily could have been setting up a potential buss day1 on kooshie, but was too hesitant.
- reacted to the beginning of a wagon on a scumbuddy exactly how I would expect scum to react.
- reads that looked very artificial,
- changing reads on jimmm, not following through on jimmmm today
- his deflection vote on lekkit that came out of no where.
add in his non-participation today (some of it was V/LA yes) and his inability to respond to the case above.
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Vote Count 3.6
Archetype (1) -- yuma
Lekkit (3) -- Archetype, sudgy, raerae
Ozle (1) -- ashersky
yuma (2) -- Eevee, Jorbles
ashersky (2) -- Insomniac, Lekkit
Jimm (1) -- mcmcsalot
Not Voting (2) -- Ozle, Jimm
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. There are 17 days remaining. Deadline is May 6 at 7:00 PM.
Soft deadline has come and gone. FOS: Jimmm (not for not being online during the soft deadline, I mean Australia does have a different schedule than most of us) but for not voting before the soft deadline! I mean, come on man, at least try to get a lynch through. You want today to turn into yesterday? I don't know... maybe you do.
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Why no FoS at Ozle?
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Why no FoS at Ozle?
well he is on announced VLA... and leaving a vote on someone while VLA is debatable. I think in some situations it is bad to leave a vote on someone while VLA, but in others it is good. So kinda a hard thing to call out.
I mean I can't FOS him for going to Barcelona...
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Sorry, I forgot he was V/LA.
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GAH!
Fine. whatever. Someone else can try and instill a soft deadline and motivate this town to do something, because I am obviously not doing it very well, so I'll stop trying.
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Can I nominate this game as "The Most Pathetic Performance By A Town" category for the 2013 mafia awards?
I am not sure what is more annoying, the fact that so few people tried to meet the soft deadline or that no one seems to care that we didn't.
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Can I nominate this game as "The Most Pathetic Performance By A Town" category for the 2013 mafia awards?
I am not sure what is more annoying, the fact that so few people tried to meet the soft deadline or that no one seems to care that we didn't.
It sucks, but I don't see what else we can do. We seem to have had enough people online to lynch someone as a group (though only just), but people aren't willing to form an agreement on anyone. I'm hoping that we can get people to list off their scummy to towny lists and we can use that to make some sort of consensus. If you've got a better idea I'm all ears.
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well I am here now... sorry my bus was a little bit delayed.
EPIC SCUM SLIP!
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Can I nominate this game as "The Most Pathetic Performance By A Town" category for the 2013 mafia awards?
I am not sure what is more annoying, the fact that so few people tried to meet the soft deadline or that no one seems to care that we didn't.
Mcmc, I was going to write a response to your comments on me, which were fair, but then yuma summed it up here.
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What's Arch at now? L-2? It might be EveryoneSheepYumaTime. And then we all smack ourselves in the forehead when yuma wins the game as scum.
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Jorbles: good response to my case on you. I mean, you've set the right townie tone in your posts--that's your biggest strength when you play mafia. You never sound scummy. I get the schedule thing, too. Regardless of my case, you clearly aren't the lynch today anyway, and you aren't my preferred lynch.
I guess no one else is going to vote Ozle?
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Jorbles: good response to my case on you. I mean, you've set the right townie tone in your posts--that's your biggest strength when you play mafia. You never sound scummy. I get the schedule thing, too. Regardless of my case, you clearly aren't the lynch today anyway, and you aren't my preferred lynch.
I guess no one else is going to vote Ozle?
Okay, I'm willing to sheep Yuma and vote for arch, I think he's got a good chance of being scum and noone picked up my suspicions of raerae, and noone wants to lynch Jimm. So I'm cool voting arch or ozzle if that wagon gets steam. I was okay with that lynch at one point.
Warning I am going to have to be a bit passive as this game goes, so much happening while I'm Vla I can only help by sheeping and wagon joining based on my reads I've had so far. So no voting for arch or ozzle now but I can and will if the wagon is viable.
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well I am here now... sorry my bus was a little bit delayed.
EPIC SCUM SLIP!
I thought that too.
On the deadline, It isn't nice that we didn't meet it. Who here isn't participating?
PPE: @Jorbles: I would be okay with raerae, but that isn't happening and I would rather lynch someone else.
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Jorbles: good response to my case on you. I mean, you've set the right townie tone in your posts--that's your biggest strength when you play mafia. You never sound scummy. I get the schedule thing, too. Regardless of my case, you clearly aren't the lynch today anyway, and you aren't my preferred lynch.
I guess no one else is going to vote Ozle?
It sounds like you don't really believe me, but oh well. One does what one can.
I wasn't planning to vote for Ozle, but I would vote for Jimmmmm if anyone besides mcmc were into it. Aside from that, we lynching Archetype now?
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As a reminder:
here is the case on Archetype that I made Wednesday, and I would like to point out that archetype has not responded to it in any way at all since that time.
Alright, the case on Archetype:
the sparky era:
37 posts
- first 11 posts are all RVS and theory talk (fair enough, it is early).
- calls ashersky's style annoying, says I am hard to read, calls out insomniac for not posting much
- 6 more theory/fluff posts
- would vote insomniac, but hesitant because he has so many votes, at that point he had 4.
- calls out kooshie for a scum slip; first time mentioning kooshie, says the case is worth a reread (at this point kooshie is at 4 votes I think (note that here is the time when I mention that scum would and should at least note a scum partner. The wagon is growing, they need to either start to defend or getting in line to buss if it comes to that... this is exactly what sparky was doing. And exactly what I didn't do at the same time, because I wasn't worried about a scummate!)
- asks kooshie some questions, more suspicious
- puts support behind lynch, still doesn't vote
- asks mcmc for his thoughts on mail-mi, expresses a scum read, perhaps considering getting an alternate wagon going to deflect from kooshie?
- eevee calls out kooshie for being scummy saying, "sparky's general attitude towards the impending kooshie lynch seem scummy to me. Looks like he is looking for a safe way to get this lynch through."
- sparky responds saying he wouldn't put someone to L-1 w/o a consensus. This screams to me of scum trying to play it safe; being willing to join in on a buss, but not wanting to do so.
- says it is because he learned to be cautious from playing scum a lot.
day2:
- inclined to look on wagon for bussers
- says xeiron swiped his vote
- townie read on lio
- scummy read on insmoniac, reiterates his reason for not putting kooshie to l-1.
- some more talk about the kooshie wagon and insomniac
- says he can be easily frustrated as scum
The archetype era:
18 posts:
day 2:
- first four posts are promising a reread, (fair he is just coming in and that day2 was starting to get dense)
- big points from his reread are: map claim is bad (theory), town reads on (ash, raerae, Ozle) scum reads on (jimmm, jorbles and mail-mi). But his reasons are... flawed. his reason for ash is "not sure why." go see for yourselves, after a reread, he doesn't give much.
- quotes cases on jimmmm "saying" This, but then says he isn't sold on the Jimmmm case
- explains why he has a scum read on Jimmm further and explains some things that he said incorrectly
- backs off his scum read on Jimmm pretty significantly, ends up voting for mail-mi for basically being "sheepy"
- again talking about mail-mi, but doesn't really say why
- talks about a soft deadline
- reverts back to a Jimmm vote, again quite a change from where he was previously
- calls hedging a scum tell (lio)
- back to mail-mi again, says we should analyze jimmm today (has archetype done that... I am going to guess no...)
- end of day interaction with mail-mi
Day3
- opens up with a ? Lekkit vote? I am pretty sure that came out of no where. He had never mentioned Lekkit before. But! in the post above Jorbles posts a vote for archetype, within it is a list of scumminess that Jorbles makes that says "raerae, Insomniac, Archetype and especially Lekkit... especially Lekkit. Made an unacceptably small contribution to discussion yesterday. d2 was really long and they made 7 posts or less. That combined with my previous wagon analysis makes me vote: Archetype." So archetype see this vote on him, goes AH! reads that Jorbles has a scum read on Lekkit, and decides to deflect. Also says that Jorbles and Lekkit are his prefered lynches for today. What happened to Jimmm, Archetype?
- I post a case on him on how I think the above is deflecting. He never responds.
- says he is VLA. Something I didn't know about, but I'll take his word for it.
In summary:
- heavy lurker. Definitely toward the bottom in terms of both posts and content.
- easily could have been setting up a potential buss day1 on kooshie, but was too hesitant.
- reacted to the beginning of a wagon on a scumbuddy exactly how I would expect scum to react.
- reads that looked very artificial,
- changing reads on jimmm, not following through on jimmmm today
- his deflection vote on lekkit that came out of no where.
add in his non-participation today (some of it was V/LA yes) and his inability to respond to the case above.
I can't really explain the sparky part because I'm not him, but I can talk about some things in you 'in summary' section:
Generally I do lurk, yes. I'm not going to try and spin this to a lurking Arch=town!Arch debate, because that's not true. I lurk as both town and scum. You've played enough games with me, Yuma, and you know my meta so I'm wondering why this is new to you.
I don't really care if you think my reads are artificial. They're my reads that I choose to share with people, no matter how translucent they may appear at a glance.
The Lekkit vote wasn't strictly deflecting. I did a brief reread on him when it was night and found him VERY scummy, so that's why I opened with a vote on him. I would have elaborated more then, but I had just started my V/LA.
Overall, I don't mind too much if you lynch me (just don't quick hammer), but be wary of Yuma leading Town. That guy is a master scum player.
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Overall, I don't mind too much if you lynch me (just don't quick hammer), but be wary of Yuma leading Town. That guy is a master scum player.
On this point, which gets brought up a lot in regard to yuma: I'd suggest rereading parts of games where yuma was confirmed town by the end (i.e., he was lynched or nightkilled and flipped town). Does true town!yuma seem like the yuma we have here? Or is he the supertownyscumyuma from MnM again?
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Hey sorry, I've been pretty busy for the past 24 hours and didn't realise the deadline was upon us. Give me a minute.
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Hey sorry, I've been pretty busy for the past 24 hours and didn't realise the deadline was upon us. Give me a minute.
Lies! No one is busy on a Friday in Mel!
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I think Vote: Lekkit seems best to me.
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So does that put him at L-2? Working on an Arch reread right now.
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so at this point--people are here and talking! Yay!--I am concerned that archetype may be town and that mafia is seeing the possibility of mislynching him today and then pinning the blame on me and mislynching me tomorrow.
What especially makes me wary is that people are unvoting me after I offered a not very compelling defense (I mean it was completely meta based and really not what I would call a stirring defense)
However, I do not think it is enough of a possibility for me to unvote. Mostly because I believe archetype is scum. I really do. At least I think I really do, and at this point in the game that has to be good enough for me.
I mean, really... maybe everyone should answer this question:
If archetype flips town, how likely are you to vote for me tomorrow? If Archetype flips scum this question is somewhat moot, and I expect him to flip scum, although I think the answers even if that comes to be would be useful to know.
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Overall, I don't mind too much if you lynch me (just don't quick hammer), but be wary of Yuma leading Town. That guy is a master scum player.
On this point, which gets brought up a lot in regard to yuma: I'd suggest rereading parts of games where yuma was confirmed town by the end (i.e., he was lynched or nightkilled and flipped town). Does true town!yuma seem like the yuma we have here? Or is he the supertownyscumyuma from MnM again?
If I can say something... I think this game I most resemble yuma from MXV and MXI. MXV is certainly the more readable game of the two.
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Overall, I don't mind too much if you lynch me (just don't quick hammer), but be wary of Yuma leading Town. That guy is a master scum player.
On this point, which gets brought up a lot in regard to yuma: I'd suggest rereading parts of games where yuma was confirmed town by the end (i.e., he was lynched or nightkilled and flipped town). Does true town!yuma seem like the yuma we have here? Or is he the supertownyscumyuma from MnM again?
If I can say something... I think this game I most resemble yuma from MXV and MXI. MXV is certainly the more readable game of the two.
I can take this to mean "I checked out my old town games and figured out the best ones to emulate."
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Overall, I don't mind too much if you lynch me (just don't quick hammer), but be wary of Yuma leading Town. That guy is a master scum player.
On this point, which gets brought up a lot in regard to yuma: I'd suggest rereading parts of games where yuma was confirmed town by the end (i.e., he was lynched or nightkilled and flipped town). Does true town!yuma seem like the yuma we have here? Or is he the supertownyscumyuma from MnM again?
If I can say something... I think this game I most resemble yuma from MXV and MXI. MXV is certainly the more readable game of the two.
I can take this to mean "I checked out my old town games and figured out the best ones to emulate."
right the game where I was mislynched for the first time and the game where I was under heavy, heavy suspicion all of day2. Those don't sound like great games to emulate as scum to me... But take it as whatever you want. I was just giving my opinion to help people if they wanted to reread me.
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Overall, I don't mind too much if you lynch me (just don't quick hammer), but be wary of Yuma leading Town. That guy is a master scum player.
On this point, which gets brought up a lot in regard to yuma: I'd suggest rereading parts of games where yuma was confirmed town by the end (i.e., he was lynched or nightkilled and flipped town). Does true town!yuma seem like the yuma we have here? Or is he the supertownyscumyuma from MnM again?
If I can say something... I think this game I most resemble yuma from MXV and MXI. MXV is certainly the more readable game of the two.
I can take this to mean "I checked out my old town games and figured out the best ones to emulate."
right the game where I was mislynched for the first time and the game where I was under heavy, heavy suspicion all of day2. Those don't sound like great games to emulate as scum to me... But take it as whatever you want. I was just giving my opinion to help people if they wanted to reread me.
I'm not saying it was bad to post. Just pointing out how it could be taken.
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So does that put him at L-2? Working on an Arch reread right now.
what did you learn raerae?
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Vote Count 3.6
Archetype (3) -- yuma, Jorbles, sudgy
Lekkit (3) -- Archetype, raerae, Jimmmm
Ozle (1) -- ashersky
yuma (1) -- Eevee
ashersky (2) -- Insomniac, Lekkit
Jimm (1) -- mcmcsalot
Not Voting (2) -- Ozle
Not sure why people are saying anyone is at L-2. It takes 7 to lynch. Both Arch and Lekkit appear to be at L-4... not even close to a lynch! Oh and there are what 16 days left in this game. And we have used, what 8 today? If we lynch today and if day 4 takes as long and if day5 takes as long, that is how long we have left in this game!
What gives! Where is the outrage! Where is the push? Why is this so extremely difficult.
I am swearing off games larger than 13 players after this. Sorry Robz. I appreciate all the effort you have put into this game and into MXI. But these games just aren't as fun for me.
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sorry! Robz can you edit that so that it isn't orange!!!???
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sorry! Robz can you edit that so that it isn't orange!!!???
Also, modkill. :)
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Not sure why people are saying anyone is at L-2. It takes 7 to lynch. Both Arch and Lekkit appear to be at L-4... not even close to a lynch! Oh and there are what 16 days left in this game. And we have used, what 8 today? If we lynch today and if day 4 takes as long and if day5 takes as long, that is how long we have left in this game!
What gives! Where is the outrage! Where is the push? Why is this so extremely difficult.
I am swearing off games larger than 13 players after this. Sorry Robz. I appreciate all the effort you have put into this game and into MXI. But these games just aren't as fun for me.
I prefer the small games, too.
I've made my case on Ozle, I've put my vote on Ozle. I have made my case for not voting for a few people. In the interest of moving the game along, I would vote for a few others.
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Not a whole lot of my own unique thoughts, honestly. Your case was VERRRRRYYYYYY detailed and convincing. However, I feel like Lekkit is my preferred choice. In addition to my case earlier, he only pops in and contributes when he's called out for something. Most of us haven't exactly been stellar at contributing, myself included but that will change going forward, but his activity has been solely based on when his name is mentioned.
And mcmc, no, you don't get to demand things of me. I vote for who I find scummy, I've never done a "popsquiz" and don't plan on starting now.
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Not a whole lot of my own unique thoughts, honestly. Your case was VERRRRRYYYYYY detailed and convincing. However, I feel like Lekkit is my preferred choice. In addition to my case earlier, he only pops in and contributes when he's called out for something. Most of us haven't exactly been stellar at contributing, myself included but that will change going forward, but his activity has been solely based on when his name is mentioned.
And mcmc, no, you don't get to demand things of me. I vote for who I find scummy, I've never done a "popsquiz" and don't plan on starting now.
fine. vote: lekkit
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Also, sorry if I started some confusion with L-2...just had that in my head for some reason and did no fact checking to verify it.
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@Yuma: I'm starting to see what you meant by bankable time being more of a burden than helpful. I mean, it's great if everyone is active and regularly imputing ideas, but when half the players aren't even there it feels like another power role for scum. Which is not what the purpose of the bankable time is.
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Now that he's been picking up steam, Vote: lekkit.
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I'll be here on compurer in half an hour. Don't lynch me until then. At least I have some info I want town to have.
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Ok, so the case on me is that I've been lurky and was in the middle of both wagons, is that right? Sounds solid to me.
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And here's the info I want you to have before you decide to lynch me.
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The reason I think Jimm is town is because of his map claim. If scum had the TM at the time, or if he had shared vision of the map, it would be a lot harder not to include their info, like doors and stuff. I mean, I bet most of you guys haven't even read how much of the map you get vision of thuroughly. This could've been faked, but nobody even pointed it out. I think at least a scumbyddy would've done that to make him look better and possibly avoid getting lynched. But nobody came to the rescue. Also, he had explored around the same amounts of rooms as I had by the time.
OH! Actually. Anyone who has entered a room with an item that was bought when you entered can aswer this. Was the pricing listed of the bought item when you entered the room.
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Also, someone who appears to have lied won't necessary be aware of it. Can't be more open about that, needs to be vague.
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Vote Count 3.7
Archetype (1) -- Jorbles
Lekkit (5) -- Archetype, raerae, Jimm, yuma, sudgy {L-2}
Ozle (1) -- ashersky
yuma (1) -- Eevee
ashersky (2) -- Insomniac, Lekkit
Jimm (1) -- mcmcsalot
Not Voting (1) -- Ozle
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. There are 17 days remaining. Deadline is May 6 at 7:00 PM.
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And since nobody seems to be willing to join the ashersky wagon, I'll change my vote to the other wagon that at least seems remotely possible to go through. Vote: Archetype
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Look at that wagon... Lekkit is totally going to flip town.
Want to lynch Jimm/arch/raerae
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Oh and Jimm lynch is pickin up nothin so vote:arch
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The reason I think Jimm is town is because of his map claim. If scum had the TM at the time, or if he had shared vision of the map, it would be a lot harder not to include their info, like doors and stuff. I mean, I bet most of you guys haven't even read how much of the map you get vision of thuroughly. This could've been faked, but nobody even pointed it out. I think at least a scumbyddy would've done that to make him look better and possibly avoid getting lynched. But nobody came to the rescue. Also, he had explored around the same amounts of rooms as I had by the time.
OH! Actually. Anyone who has entered a room with an item that was bought when you entered can aswer this. Was the pricing listed of the bought item when you entered the room.
This is nice analysis, I guess, and I agree with it fully, actually. I checked out Jimmmmm's map claiming, too.
What I don't understand is why this should keep anyone from lynching you. I mean, I'm not currently voting for you, but if I was, this post doesn't change my mind.
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Perhaps you can tell me why I'm being voted for besides lurking? Because I can't seem to find anything that actually sounds like a case. But people are wagon happy, and I get that. The reason I put it out there was so that when I flip, you'll take that into account.
The thing is, town sure would benefit from lynching scum, but the day ending soon is actually getting more and more important if we want to be able to win after today. I think there are better lynches today from my perspective. I would even rather lynch Jimm than me. And I have a town read on Jimm. But I'm starting to get what you mean by sacrificing yourself for the town. I'm just not as much into it as you are.
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Perhaps you can tell me why I'm being voted for besides lurking? Because I can't seem to find anything that actually sounds like a case. But people are wagon happy, and I get that. The reason I put it out there was so that when I flip, you'll take that into account.
The thing is, town sure would benefit from lynching scum, but the day ending soon is actually getting more and more important if we want to be able to win after today. I think there are better lynches today from my perspective. I would even rather lynch Jimm than me. And I have a town read on Jimm. But I'm starting to get what you mean by sacrificing yourself for the town. I'm just not as much into it as you are.
I think the lurking itself isn't the issue--it's the Top Gunning. You swoop in when your name is called, but you haven't been providing your own thoughts on your own accord. Like, you'll read "man, where's Lekkit, dude needs to get in here" and then you'll arrive and contribute, then fly off again. I think that reads as scummy a lot of the time. It's different if, say, you fly in at the same time of day every day to offer a few posts; then it's a schedule thing. Here it seems like you are only posting (well, before) when your absence was noticed. And now, under pressure, you are here providing input. I think that's what has gotten people voting for you.
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The thing is, it is actually a scheduling thing. I don't have a 9-5 job. I have a 4 week rotating schedule. Sometimes I work day, sometimes evenings, sometimes weekends. And I'm pretty much only able to do any substantional contribution while at work. And only when there's not too much to do.
Also, can it be called topgunning when I'm swooping in to say stuff before I'm called out for it? Doesn't that sound more like, you know... Lurking?
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The thing is, it is actually a scheduling thing. I don't have a 9-5 job. I have a 4 week rotating schedule. Sometimes I work day, sometimes evenings, sometimes weekends. And I'm pretty much only able to do any substantional contribution while at work. And only when there's not too much to do.
Also, can it be called topgunning when I'm swooping in to say stuff before I'm called out for it? Doesn't that sound more like, you know... Lurking?
I think the swoop-say-depart is topgunning, no matter the reasons. Usually it's in response to being called out. If you do it before getting called out, I guess its the same action but for different reasons.
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So top gunning is actually lurking?
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Either way, I don't have much to say about that. I haven't really been super active this game.
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So top gunning is actually lurking?
Topgunning is how you cover for lurking.
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vote: archetype
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eevee you are still voting for me. Do you still want to be voting for me?
ash you are still voting for Ozle. I think you said you are comfortable with your vote there. Why are you comfortable with your lynch there? I understand you think he is scummy, but do you think he is going to be lynched today?
Also no one answered my question from before:
If archetype flips town, how likely are you to vote for me tomorrow? If Archetype flips scum this question is somewhat moot, and I expect him to flip scum, although I think the answers even if that comes to be would be useful to know.
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So top gunning is actually lurking?
Topgunning is how you cover for lurking.
do you think that arch'es behavior would also qualify as "topgunning?"
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vote: archetype
Why did you leave the L-2 wagon to add a second vote to Arch?
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So top gunning is actually lurking?
Topgunning is how you cover for lurking.
do you think that arch'es behavior would also qualify as "topgunning?"
Arch has lurked so hard I can't even remember him buzzing the tower.
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eevee you are still voting for me. Do you still want to be voting for me?
ash you are still voting for Ozle. I think you said you are comfortable with your vote there. Why are you comfortable with your lynch there? I understand you think he is scummy, but do you think he is going to be lynched today?
Also no one answered my question from before:
If archetype flips town, how likely are you to vote for me tomorrow? If Archetype flips scum this question is somewhat moot, and I expect him to flip scum, although I think the answers even if that comes to be would be useful to know.
I think Ozle is the likeliest to flip scum out of everyone. That's why I'm voting for him still.
Unfortunately, I don't think we'll get a lynch through, and he chose the perfect time to take a trip to ensure that.
I am willing to change my vote, but I don't like the current lynches because they really feel like easy mislynches for scum based on deadlines and such.
That said, I probably would have hammered Lekkit had he reached L-1.
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If archetype flips town, how likely are you to vote for me tomorrow? If Archetype flips scum this question is somewhat moot, and I expect him to flip scum, although I think the answers even if that comes to be would be useful to know.
On this--Arch's flip will have no real bearing on how I view you.
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I have very limited access right now, can't get to a computer.
After reviewing yuma's case, I don't like the achetype lynch much. A lot of it is standard archetype play I think.
Don't know about Lekkit, I guess I don't actively oppose it but I'd rather go off the kooshie wagon.
Meh, I wish I could build proper cases but mcmc or Insomniac.
vote: mcmc
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I have very limited access right now, can't get to a computer.
After reviewing yuma's case, I don't like the achetype lynch much. A lot of it is standard archetype play I think.
Don't know about Lekkit, I guess I don't actively oppose it but I'd rather go off the kooshie wagon.
Meh, I wish I could build proper cases but mcmc or Insomniac.
vote: mcmc
Good point about needing to go off-Kooshie-wagon. We somehow got sidetracked away from that. I prefer mcmc or Insom there.
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vote: archetype
Why did you leave the L-2 wagon to add a second vote to Arch?
because it wasn't a second vote... it was a fourth. Lekkit and mcmc have voted arch. I prefer arch over lekkit and I was hoping that you or eevee would join the arch wagon now that you are both online.
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I have very limited access right now, can't get to a computer.
After reviewing yuma's case, I don't like the achetype lynch much. A lot of it is standard archetype play I think.
Don't know about Lekkit, I guess I don't actively oppose it but I'd rather go off the kooshie wagon.
Meh, I wish I could build proper cases but mcmc or Insomniac.
vote: mcmc
I'll reread mcmc and build something now.
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I have very limited access right now, can't get to a computer.
After reviewing yuma's case, I don't like the achetype lynch much. A lot of it is standard archetype play I think.
Don't know about Lekkit, I guess I don't actively oppose it but I'd rather go off the kooshie wagon.
Meh, I wish I could build proper cases but mcmc or Insomniac.
vote: mcmc
Good point about needing to go off-Kooshie-wagon. We somehow got sidetracked away from that. I prefer mcmc or Insom there.
Arch is off wagon...
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MCMC:
Out of everyone off the kooshie wagon I feel like mcmc was given the least amount of suspicion. Maybe include myself on that point--at least up until mid day three were a miniwagon formed on me--but mcmc has always beenn kinda suspicious, but I don't think there has ever been a true wagon on him.
130 posts total
Day1: (32 posts)
- about fourth post has a scum read on mail-mi. town on ash
- votes mail-mi, thinks i am scummy for being dismissive
- no longer has town read on ash due to "-telling"
- talks alot about map claiming, is partially for it
- expresses slight scum read on mail-mi and kooshie
- supports sudgy vote, doesn't vote however (his vote is still on mail-mi)
- defends lio a couple of times
- continues to read mail-mi as scum, kinda tunneling if you ask me
- says he isn't fine with a kooshie lynch
Day2
- starts off day2 for lurking, doesn't get nearly as called out for it as jimmmm does
- quickly jumps on jimmm (Jimmm had 2 votes at this point)
- says his case on mail-mi no longer exists because kooshie ended up turning scum and he thought that mail-mi was pushing two town mislynches
- says he supports insom's case on sudgy
- supposes sudgy could have accidentially bussed kooshie
- at this point he receives votes from eevee and ashersky
- votes for jimmm,
- says he doens't think sparky is scummy
- really harps on jimmm for not responding or posting much
- thinks mail-mi's slip was dumb, but not scummy
- continues to really go at Jimmm
- votes for ozle once the jimmm wagon dies off
- maintains that he won't vote for insomniac
- says he the case for jimm and insom is the same and would vote for either
- goes back to voting jimmm
- up in the air about mail-mi, doesn't like it, but thinks mail-mi is reacting suspiciously
- says the people on mail-mi's wagon makes him worried? I don't get this, if you are town you shouldn't know people's alignment...
day3 28 posts
- starts out the day with map claiming stuff, gets really sidetracked by it
- really weird behavior to start out the day with map claiming, kinda just talking to himself
- gets one vote on him from eevee and is already a bit defensive?
- keeps talking about theory even after he said he would stop?
- finds arch and raerae and ash suspicious
- gets super lurky (or VLA)
- goes back to a jimmm vote
- says he is willing to sheep me and vote arch
So I don't know. I mean, mcmc didn't really defend kooshie. But he did try very hard to steer the wagon away from her. Again, this is how I would expect scum to react to a wagon on their buddy day1. It is also how I would expect scum to build up a case on one player early (in this case mail-mi) and stick to it all day long.
His behavior day2 also is how I would expect scum to play. Stick to their guns and try to get a mislynch (again here assuming that jimmmm is actually town, which I am not sure about). Because scum needs to mislynch day2. After losing scum day1, scum can't afford to lose another player. And he pushed for Jimmm hard, harder than anyone else I think.
His reaction to the mail-mi wagon was also interesting in that he didn't like the case, but was ok seeing it go through.
Further more of interest is that only eevee, ash, yuma and insomniac have voted for him all game long.
I am still willing to go back to arch, but I think exploring this mcmc lynch is worthwhile. But if it doesn't pick up soon, we can't explore it too long... we need to end this day soon if we want to have any time for future days. I am guessing this game will run into 6 or 7+ days.
vote: mcmc
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vote: mcmc
I can get behind this lynch; I found him scummy D2; yuma's recap is good.
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Hmm yuma's case is compelling. mcmc has read strange to me for a while now, but I've been considering that clumsy Town rather than scum. But now I must reconsider. Off to do a re-read.
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I'll be gone for the next, like 24 hours.
yuma, if Arche flips town, I would take that into consideration if you would have been around the next day. But I wouldn't really base my whole read on you off that.
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Thank you yuma.
Your summary matches my earlier impression. I support this lynch.
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Yea noone has been voting for me because people found me scummy and raerae said I was kinda towny.
Also all this theory talk I had the beginning of the day, if you read it it is a terrible idea to lynch me, like seriously you would be doing scum a huuuuge favor.
I think D1 I was mistaken on kooshie and I wasn't around to fight against the lynch, I always feel like I messed up when a lynch goes through without my vote on it because it means I should have argued my point better.
As for day 2 oh man was everybody lurking like crazy, we didn't have enough people posting to lynch someone, I was on Jimm for so long because everyone posting said they liked the Jimm lynch then as the lurkers(ash,eevee,raerae,arch,lekkit,insom) slowly came back they all said no. Don't you all remember that, then because if that we ended up with a terrible lynch on mail-mi. Ash had a decent case built on ozzle in the middle there. So I maintain Jimm would have been a better lynch and find those who stopped it from happening suspicious.
One thing to note, check out what I have done as scum during time of very low posting, I am happy to let the game go on with noone posting, I make sure to post when I have to so I'm not lurking but I would never drive a wagon the way I did on Jimm. Not with that few posting.
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Also because I am v/la please please please do not lynch me before I can reveal all the stuff I was talking about earlier.
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If archetype flips town, how likely are you to vote for me tomorrow? If Archetype flips scum this question is somewhat moot, and I expect him to flip scum, although I think the answers even if that comes to be would be useful to know.
I agree with Ash, arch's flip has very little bearing in how I view you.
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Ash hasn't offered to get lynched in a long time. Probably scum?
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Ash hasn't offered to get lynched in a long time. Probably scum?
This made me laugh out loud.
Also, I can get behind a mcmc lynch but won't be around until this afternoon/evening to add my view to yuma's case on him.
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It might take me a bit of convincing to lynch mcmc, but I might do it to end the day.
@yuma: I'm not sure what I would do if Archetype flips town.
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I don't like the mcmc lynch, but I could get behind a Lekkit lynch if that's still on the table. You guys sure did a lot while I slept.
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I don't like the mcmc lynch, but I could get behind a Lekkit lynch if that's still on the table. You guys sure did a lot while I slept.
I'm in the same position as Jorbles, but I also want to add raerae to my list of potential list candidates. Though that's probably a better conversation for tommorow.
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Vote Count 3.8
Archetype (3) -- Jorbles, Lekkit, mcmcsalot
Lekkit (4) -- Archetype, raerae, Jimm, sudgy
ashersky (1) -- Insomniac
mcmcsalot (3) -- Eevee, yuma, ashersky
Not Voting (1) -- Ozle
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. There are 16 days remaining. Deadline is May 6 at 7:00 PM.
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Okay, I'm adding my vote to the Lekkit lynch. mcmcs weird behaviour at the start of this day makes me think he's probably town. Lekkit's lurky behaviour isn't as compelling to me as Archetype's scummy voting patterns but the Lekkit lynch seems more likely to go through based on the way voting has been. I can live with lynching Lekkit.
Vote: Lekkit.
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Hmm so I'm really torn on mcmc. There are specific thing he's done which I've found quite scummy, most notably his case on me (and I hope I'm not being biased). It also concerns me that while he was heavily critiquing me, he all but ignored what was admittedly probably my only significant contribution at the time, my stance on sudgy, which makes me wonder about the two of them. I know when I've been scum I haven't wanted to say too much about my teammate/s. Hmm.
mcmc, how do you feel about Insom?
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Hmm so I'm really torn on mcmc. There are specific thing he's done which I've found quite scummy, most notably his case on me (and I hope I'm not being biased). It also concerns me that while he was heavily critiquing me, he all but ignored what was admittedly probably my only significant contribution at the time, my stance on sudgy, which makes me wonder about the two of them. I know when I've been scum I haven't wanted to say too much about my teammate/s. Hmm.
mcmc, how do you feel about Insom?
When was your sudgy case? Could you quote it? Also how I felt about insom was that he was lurking but I noticed it had a pattern which suggests real life reasoning(Wednesday and Friday are his post times) his responses to my calling him out yesterday also read towny to me so I felt towny on him. I haven't paid close enough attention to make a new read on him as I said I am v/la and trying very hard to keep up but don't usually have time to look back or review things.
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well that was a failed experiment if you ask me, but continue to note that only ash, eevee and myself voted for him--people who had already voted for him...
While I am thinking of it I am going to put together a list of who has voted for whom... or rather who has been voted by whom in the last 2 days in an attempt to see if I can spot a trend... mostly I think it highly unlikely that scum would buss at this point in the game (especially yesterday because losing 2 players in 2 days as scum would be horrible)
Day2 is before the :::: day3 (only new voters) after.
Insomniac: Jorbles, sudgy, ashersky, yuma, ozle::: (5)
Jimmm: Ozle, Jorbles, mcmc, sudgy, yuma, archetype::: (6)
sudgy: insomniac, jimmm, jorbles::: (3)
Archetype: eevee, yuma, jimmmm, sudgy:::jorbles, lekkit (6)
mcmc: ashersky, yuma, insomniac::: (3)
jorbles: ashersky::: (1)
yuma: ashersky, sudgy:::eevee, lekkit, jorbles (5)
Ozle: ashersky, Eevee, yuma, sudgy, mcmc, raerae::: (6)
ashersky: yuma, ozle, eevee:::lekkit, insomniac (5)
lekkit: :::archetype, sudgy, raerae, ashersky, Jimmmm, yuma, jorbles (7)
raerae: :::: (0)
eevee ::::: (0)
Takeaways:
First off: raerae and eevee haven't been voted day2 or 3
Second: Lekkit has received the most votes--our magic number of 7 (from active players). That means that if everyone who has voted him so far votes for him, we can lynch him. This might not be a bad thing.
Third; lekkit received no votes yesterday, they have all come today.
Fourth: a list of players who haven't voted for each other:
Ins/jimmm; Ins/archetype; Ins/mcmc; Ins/Lekkit; Ins/raerae; Ins/eevee; Jimmm/ashersky; Jimmm/raerae; Jimmm/eevee; sudgy/mcmc; sudgy/ash; sudgy/raerae; sudgy/eevee; arch/mcmc; arch/ozle; arch/ash; arch/raerae; mcmc/jorbles; mcmc/lekkit; mcmc/raerae; jorbles/ozle; jorbles/raerae; jorbles/eevee; yuma/raerae; ozle/lekkit; ash/raerae; lekkit/eevee; raerae/eevee
Possible pairs:
Ins: 6 (jimm, arch, mcmc, lekkit, raerae, eevee)
Jimm: 4 (ins, ash, raerae, eevee)
sudgy: 4 (mcmc, ash, rae, eevee)
arch: 5 (ins, mcmc, ozle, ash, rae)
mcmc: 6 (ins, sudgy, arch, jorb, lekkit, raerae)
jorb: 4 (mcmc, ozle, raerae, eevee)
yuma: 1 (raerae)
Lekkit: 4 (ins, mcmc, ozle, eevee)
ozle: 3 (arch, lekkit, jorbles)
ash: 4 (jimm, arch, sudgy, raerae)
rae: 9 (ins, jimmm, sudgy, arch, mcmc, jorbles, yuma, ash, eevee)
eevee: 6 (ins, jimmm, sudgy, jorbles, lekkit, raerae)
So what does this all mean? First of all it isn't surefire, but I think it is a possible lead. Because scum could conceivable buss yesterday or tomorrow (but I would be a bit skeptical of that game plan, more so yesterday, but also today). So out of everyone obviously it is the people that are voting the least that have the most possible scum partners left. Those voting the most have the least (that would be me for those of you still following along). So if I am scum, that means I have to have bussed at some point yesterday or today.
Now how to interpret it.... Raerae jumps out at me! Wow. That is some very minimal interactions going on there and a very select group of people that she has voted for. Wait, raerae has only voted for one person the last two days? Am I reading that right? Let me check that out... Ok, she also voted mail-mi... this list doesn't include votes on dead people... And she voted ozle... I missed that one somehow (i'll add it back in). But that is it. She isn't voting a lot. So does that mean she is scummy for not doing so or is it kinda the Dsell effect from MXIX where he didn't vote for like the entire game?
For the others, I am more suspicious of people with a high amount of partners still theoretically available... Jimmm, Ins (his I think is due to less participation), mcmc and eevee and to an extent archetype.
Also, I just remembered this: and I hate to talk about it, but I feel like I need to do so... The Oracle has not yet claimed. If you are the Oracle, and investigated last night, now would be a great time to talk. If you aren't the oracle, don't say anything about this please.
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Yuma, can you explain why throwing votes around like confetti is townie?
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Yuma, can you explain why throwing votes around like confetti is townie?
well I don't think throwing them around is townie... but the whole point of my premise is thus:
1. scum was lynched day1 putting scum at three players and in a potentially bad position
2. if scum were lynched again day2 (and to a slightly lesser extent day3) that would be an even worse position with only two scum alive.
3. as such I would postulate that scum wouldn't want to buss their scum mates. Meaning that they wouldn't want to vote for them. (Now it is reasonable that scum might vote for each other and then take the vote of later, but that is risky, because people will be able to go back at some point and notice that interaction)
4. therefore people who have voted for each other are (in my opinion according to this premise) less likely to be scum partners. whereas:
5. people who have voted less and received less votes have more potential scum buddies possible and
6. people who have voted more and received more votes have less potential scum buddies possible.
I don't want to suggest that people just throwing their votes around willy-nilly is pro-town. It isn't. But in this scenario it makes me think that they might be more likely to be townies. Townies that, like me, aren't playing their best game ever.
However, people who are extremely cautious with their votes and have limited voting interactions with other players are inherently scummy to me. This is why I always found theorel scummy (when in fact he was never scum in a game I was playing with him) but that is just his playing style. Now this may be your playing style as well, but it does raise a red flag for me.
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alright ash... you want to hammer lekkit now is your chance... vote: lekkit
I don't see town getting anywhere else today and we need today to be over. I see you are online so go ahead.
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Okay.
vote: lekkit
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finally...
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finally...
Now that's it is twilight...yuma, are you actually scum?
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Okay.
vote: lekkit
Also, this is NOT a derphammer. There's been plenty of talk. I mentioned previously willingness to hammer. We town need day to end.
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finally...
Now that's it is twilight...yuma, are you actually scum?
No. I am not. I wish I were though the way this town is playing.
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Ash hasn't offered to get lynched in a long time. Probably scum?
+1
If I survive the night, and Lekkit turns out to be town, I'm sure I'm next in line. Don't forget the Ozle!
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And dangit. Lekkit isn't online.
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flip flip flip...if I'm dead tomorrow, look at mcmc's case on Jimmmmmm and his "case" on me. Those are classic scum mcmc cases, sorry I wasn't around to do give more detail.
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flip flip flip...if I'm dead tomorrow, look at mcmc's case on Jimmmmmm and his "case" on me. Those are classic scum mcmc cases, sorry I wasn't around to do give more detail.
you could give it now... robz isn't online either.
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flip flip flip...if I'm dead tomorrow, look at mcmc's case on Jimmmmmm and his "case" on me. Those are classic scum mcmc cases, sorry I wasn't around to do give more detail.
you could give it now... robz isn't online either.
Working on it. I'm going to start with him on me since that's freshest in my mind.
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Sadly my reread didn't give me much. I want raerae's popsquiz asap, I think there is potential for one of eevee/raerae to be scum, they have played similarly and I think its a scummy way to play: low impact, protected jimm for little reasoning, and I believe raerae is in the category of bandwagon vote jumpers. Also her constant post about me are interesting, her stance is always very slight towny or very slight suspicious with chance of going either way. Now she could be town and I don't expect her to give a concrete read on me but I do think she would be more likely to give a concrete read on me as town then as scum. I think she wants to leave the option open to say I'm scummy and get me lynched, but she doesn't want to try to make a case for it either way and draw that attention to herself.
So he states that Eevee and I are playing a similar game but doesn't mention Eevee again during this post (or since as far as I can tell). When he's wrong with me, he'll go after Eevee. Beyond that, the whole "low impact" thing is crap. I was very vocal about not lynching jimmmmm, pushed for mail-mi (yes, I was wrong but pushing is hardly playing it safe), and have pushed, as little as I've been around, for Lekkit today. Moral of the story: I haven't been quiet so that point is moot.
He then attacks, AGAIN, me not voting for Jimmmm...I just don't understand that. It's one thing to disagree with somebody's reasons but he flat our refuses to acknowledge them. Scum mcmc LOVES to minimize certain facts (like my reasons for not voting jimmmm) and inflate others (example coming soon).
And his last point is that I'm a bandwagon jumper but he doesn't give an example. He doesn't back any of this up with facts. Scum mcmc loves to point out things that are scummy without actually giving examples of those things and just hopes others will dredge up something that resembles his arguments or take him at his word.
So, on to inflation, he says as that I'm constantly posting about him. That's just outright false. I think, at the time of the above quoted post, I had mentioned him 5-8 times. Total. The whole game. Sorry, I just can't stop talking about him :(. So, in addition to that, he comes to the conclusion that, as town, I would be more confident about my reads regarding him than as scum. That makes ZERO sense, especially because I rarely get a solid feel for him before D2 or 3 and those have all been smaller games than this. He says he doesn't expect me to give a concrete read on him but finds me scummy for not being more concrete with my read...I believe this is a solid case of damned if I do, damned if I don't.
OK, so moral of the story is mcmc starts setting up lynches by posting fishing cases, like the one above, to see who will bite. If it garners any attention, he pushes the case the next day and bulldogs it until it goes through.
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Vote Count 3.9
Archetype (2) -- Lekkit, mcmcsalot
Lekkit (7) -- Archetype, raerae, Jimm, sudgy, Jorbles, yuma, ashersky
ashersky (1) -- Insomniac
mcmcsalot (1) -- Eevee
Not Voting (1) -- Ozle
What's that? You lynched Lekkit? Well, that's a shame, because he was a Town-aligned Coppersmith. What dreadful news!
All is not lost. I wish you all very productive evenings, oh my!
I will update your coin totals when I get a chance. I don't guarantee it will be tonight, though. I will post here again when all coin totals are updated. In the meantime, send provisional orders if you like, and QTs unlocked!
NIGHT THREE START!
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Coin totals are now updated. Please send me your orders in the next 24 hours if possible. I know it's the weekend, so I won't be super strict, but if everyone sends in all their orders before you do anything, you might get left out. Thanks!
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FWIW: The game will resume at noon tomorrow.
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A little theme music: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAWt46SLqXg
Happy birthday, mcmcsalot! It seems that scum celebrated by murder/kidnapping you. How unfortunate to lose another Town-aligned Coppersmith.
DAY 4 START -- THREAD UNLOCKED.
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Day1 post count Day 2 Day 3post count
1. Jimm: 35 77 36
2. raerae: 26 30 18
3. yuma: 29 118 24
4. ashersky: 42 100 99
5. Insomniac: 10 17 11
6. Eevee: 21 56 36
7. Jorbles: 15 41 30
8. liopoil: 92 124
9. sparky5856 Archetype: 26 31 7
10. mcmcsalot: 32 69 33
11. sudgy: 33 44 28
12. xeiron: 13
13. Lekkit: 16 18 38
14. Ozle: 65 88 16
15. Kooshie: 38
16. mail-mi: 39 55
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Also two other things that I think are important for me to talk about.
1. I roleblocked raerae last night. She is now less suspicious in my mind.
2. Someone appears to have purchased an item called Possession. This makes the player they target a Miller for the rest of the game meaning that they would turn up as scum in a cop investigation. So we need to keep that in mind moving forward.
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Omg I still feel like throwing a tantrum even though I got a couple of days to cool off.
HOW.ABYSMAL.WAS.THAT.LYNCH!?
There has got to be scum in the guys who directed the lynch to on-kooshiewagon. Whenever I get computer access (sadly wont be before friday) I'll look into who did what with a very critical eye.
Last 2-3 voters are just super scummy now.
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also... two other things that need to come up if possible.
1. anyone able to confirm sudgy's claim?
2. in the hope to save time I think the Oracle should claim immediately with results if they have them
3. Robz when does this day end? I think we should try to lynch before the weekend. Do you guys think that is possible... and a good idea?
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Vote Count 4.1
Not Voting (10) -- Ozle, Archetype, raerae, Jimm, sudgy, Jorbles, yuma, ashersky, Insomniac, Eevee
With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Deadline is May 12 at 7:00 PM. You will start eating into your banked time (16 days) on Friday.
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Ok, we would probably be able to spare a couple of days to get us through the weekend. Tuesday could be a good goal.
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I can confirm that the Possession exists as yuma stated it. I found it last night. I'm not sure what this means except that we can't trust investigation results in the way we thought we could.
I was not able to confirm sudgy's claim. I haven't seen a Gold Room yet.
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I can confirm that the Possession exists as yuma stated it. I found it last night. I'm not sure what this means except that we can't trust investigation results in the way we thought we could.
We should also note that it is a 1-shot. So it can only be used once. I still think an investigation should be taken as valid since the odds of Millering and being investigated is a little bit small. However, it is on the back end that we should be cautious. If someone is investigated and is scum but flips town, we shouldn't just automatically attack the investigator the next day.
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It cost me $2 to enter a gold room last night.
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It cost me $2 to enter a gold room last night.
is that pro-sudgy or anti-sudgy?
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I can confirm that the Possession exists as yuma stated it. I found it last night. I'm not sure what this means except that we can't trust investigation results in the way we thought we could.
We should also note that it is a 1-shot. So it can only be used once. I still think an investigation should be taken as valid since the odds of Millering and being investigated is a little bit small. However, it is on the back end that we should be cautious. If someone is investigated and is scum but flips town, we shouldn't just automatically attack the investigator the next day.
Would they flip town or would it show that they were a Miller on flip?
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I would expect them to flip their true alignment
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It cost me $2 to enter a gold room last night.
is that pro-sudgy or anti-sudgy?
Someone must have read the rules!
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Cost to enter a Gold Room
$5
$2, if Gold Key purchased by your faction
$2 after Night 3
So sudgy is IC now? Or I guess possibly Eevee is on his team if he was lying, but that seems unlikely.
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Also I feel like I need to talk about something else...
At this point I think this is safe to talk about. Because I think everyone has probably noticed it and it won't be giving anything away to scum.
I believe that people receive coins when they are on a lynching wagon. I dont' know how many, nor do I think that should be discussed, nor do I know if there are other ways of getting money, and that shouldn't be discussed either. But the two times I have been on a wagon I received money. The one time I was not, I didn't receive any.
I imagine scum also noticed this especially in light of their night kills the first two nights (xeiron and lio) both of whom were on all of the lynch wagons up to that point.
The obvious exception is mcmc--who I believe was NK for his alluding to his ability to achieve something pretty awesome tomorrow. (hopefully that was an attempt to absorb a night kill, if so Bravo!)
But the point I am trying to make from this, is that from this I think scum realized early on that being on a wagon helped you receive money. and that scum didnt' want town members with lots of money to be alive. (that is the only thing that can explain the xeiron NK, which from a scummy/townie pov doens't make any sense)
So the big takeaway is that scum had to realize that being on wagon results in money coming in. How did they realize this? By having someone on wagon who received money and someone off who didn't.
this isn't breaking news... I realize this. We have long thought that at least one scum was on the kooshie wagon and at least one was off. This just further reaffirms what he had already thought and makes 3 all on and 3 all off much more unlikely.
So what does that mean for us. I think it means that at this point looking on wagon may now be the best place to look for scum, especially when we understand that everyone that has died in this game (with the exception of mcmc) has been on-Kooshie wagon.
People alive on wagon: eevee, raerae, jorbles, ashersky, sudgy
People alive off wagon: insomniac, yuma, archetype, ozle, Jimmm
5:5 Add in that we now believe that sudgy is potentially an IC it takes the count to 4:5.
So either there is:
1 scum in 4 and 2 scum in 5
or
2 scum in 4 and 1 scum in 5.
Right now I think I am most suspicious of jorbles and ashersky out of that group.
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@yuma I was not on the lynch wagon and I received some number of coins last night > 1
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I haven't noticed that happening, but that doesn't mean it's not happening. I've been on wagon twice, and received some money. When I was off wagon, I received approximately the same amount of money as I had the other times with minor fluctuations. It's possible that this is happening, and there's another explanation for why I got money when I was offwagon, or there's other reasons why yuma got more money when he was on wagon.
This isn't OMGUS though it might be perceived that way, but I'm growing more suspicious of yuma. This is a meta argument, but I'm getting suspicious of the fact that he's so active, leading town, and not being NKed. When you combine that with his scummy voting patterns (which have been consistently being willing to go with the consensus lynch except for the one time it was a scum player) I really suspect him.
Now that said I don't no if the claims he made today make sense for a scum player to make. So I'm going to go over them.
1) He roleblocked raerae. A scum player could have roleblocked raerae if he knew she was town. A scum player could have roleblocked raerae if he knew she was doing no actions and she was on his team. A scum player could have lied about roleblocking raerae and done nothing of the sort just to make her look less scummy regardless of her alignment. No town points here anyways.
2) He reported the Possession, which seems to help town, but he or a team mate might have been the person who purchased it. And then worried that someone in the town was going to find it and let everyone know there was a possible Miller out there could have decided to tell us about it to try and get town points. Kindof nullish on this, as town would definitely have reported this if they found it purchased.
3) Claiming that people get money for being on lynches. I haven't noticed this changing for me based on where I was on the lynch. Have others?
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Ok... maybe that isn't the case then. It was something I noticed and thought that it might have significance. However, I do not think we should discuss in any more detail that we have when we received money, when we didn't now that we have discovered that my premise is at least partially false.
But like I said it didn't really say anything groundbreaking. But just further established what we were already hypothesizing. I would suggest that our hypothesis about where scum is located is likely still correct despite my correlation being invalidated.
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This isn't OMGUS though it might be perceived that way, but I'm growing more suspicious of yuma. This is a meta argument, but I'm getting suspicious of the fact that he's so active, leading town, and not being NKed. When you combine that with his scummy voting patterns (which have been consistently being willing to go with the consensus lynch except for the one time it was a scum player) I really suspect him.
I think the fact that I am not being NK is more easily explained by scum realizing that I am being a horrible leader...
And really I wouldn't mind if all if others were more local and lead town instead. But everytime I have tried to stay quiet and let others take over, no one has! So I keep trying and failing.
I agree that my voting record is horrendous. The only thing I can say to that is, like my defense yesterday this is very meta..., scum!yuma wouldn't put himself into this situation. you can argue that and that is fair, but look back at the games I have been scum or even better the game that you modded MIX where I was scum. In that game I stayed far, far away from mislynches. I think that game I wasn't on a single wagon--although I did buss my partners cuzz and ash pretty sufficiently, but not to the point of lynching them. But again that is meta and isn't a very good defense at all.
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vote: yuma
I was on lynch yesterday and received no coins.
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I was just thinking. What if scum and town get coins differently? That would explain why if yuma was scum on a team he might think that people on lynches get money. It might be true for everyone on the scum team that people on lynches get coins. And they thought it was true for everyone. Maybe the scum team does get money from being on a lynch, but town players don't. This is speculative, I know, but it's one more thing that makes me suspicious of yuma.
vote: yuma
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I'm suspicious of yuma and raerae now. Reasons:
1. I've been slightly suspicious of them before now
2. Yuma could easily be pulling off some reverse psychology thing here, using his meta-arguments
3. People are countering Yuma's claim.
4. Yuma saying the Possession was bought could be him trying to make his scumbuddies look better if they got targeted by a cop.
5. Yuma could have been defending raerae by saying he roleblocked her.
6. Raerae has been very lurky this game.
PPE: And, now that a semi-wagon has been forming on yuma, Vote: yuma.
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Scum getting coin from being on a town lynch (and vice versa) would make sense, but daymn that'd be an amateur mistake from yuma.
I'm still baffled how we managed to lynch twice from the day 1 wagon after nailing kooshie day1. Scum must really be laughing at how hard we fail.
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I'm still baffled how we managed to lynch twice from the day 1 wagon after nailing kooshie day1. Scum must really be laughing at how hard we fail.
I've been thinking the same thing, but now that we're getting less people I think I could keep up a bit better now.
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I got cash for being on scum lynch and off town lynch. No coins for the mislynch.
Yuma got coins every night? Makes sense as scum. Off scum, on town, on town. Caught.
And yes Eevee, we suck for being led around by scum!yuma AGAIN.
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Also, Yuma with nothing to say now is a huge scum tell for him specifically.
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He was last active right after ashersky voted for him. Ash's vote was at 6:43.
Last Active: Today at 06:44:42 pm
That could mean he was just going out when the vote happened and was looking at some other thread OR it could mean he saw the vote and disappeared. Honestly it's probably the former, I can't see scum or town yuma not immediately addressing something.
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Sudgy, have you ever posted why you're suspicious of me? All I can find is you being suspicious of me for lurking but that was when I'd clearly posted IRL issues and v/la so I figured you'd just missed that.
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Vote Count 4.2
yuma (3) -- ashersky, Jorbles, sudgy
Not Voting (7) -- Ozle, Archetype, raerae, Jimm, yuma, Insomniac, Eevee
With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Deadline is May 12 at 7:00 PM. You will start eating into your banked time (16 days) on Friday.
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Also two other things that I think are important for me to talk about.
1. I roleblocked raerae last night. She is now less suspicious in my mind.
2. Someone appears to have purchased an item called Possession. This makes the player they target a Miller for the rest of the game meaning that they would turn up as scum in a cop investigation. So we need to keep that in mind moving forward.
Why roleblock me? Obviously because you were suspicious but had you voiced that suspicion anywhere in thread? And, if you were so suspicious, why did you follow my vote onto both mail-mi and lekkit?
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I was just thinking. What if scum and town get coins differently? That would explain why if yuma was scum on a team he might think that people on lynches get money. It might be true for everyone on the scum team that people on lynches get coins. And they thought it was true for everyone. Maybe the scum team does get money from being on a lynch, but town players don't. This is speculative, I know, but it's one more thing that makes me suspicious of yuma.
vote: yuma
I highly doubt that is the case that scum and town get coins differently. I mean maybe?
But this is disproved by Insomniac who said that he received money and was off wagon... unless you also think he is scum?
I don't want this to turn into a massive claim of who received how much money, that would be counter productive.
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Also two other things that I think are important for me to talk about.
1. I roleblocked raerae last night. She is now less suspicious in my mind.
2. Someone appears to have purchased an item called Possession. This makes the player they target a Miller for the rest of the game meaning that they would turn up as scum in a cop investigation. So we need to keep that in mind moving forward.
Why roleblock me? Obviously because you were suspicious but had you voiced that suspicion anywhere in thread? And, if you were so suspicious, why did you follow my vote onto both mail-mi and lekkit?
I was somewhat suspicious of you after my post about voting patterns/partners late yesterday.
But mostly it was that you were on all three lynches. I think it tends to be a scum trait to either be all on or all off. Add in the fact that you were a leader off the two off-wagon lynches (yes I followed you onto them, but that doesn't mean I can't be suspicious of you after the fact) and were a bit late on kooshie.
But mostly I was heavily considering using it on someone that I found more scummy... Jimmm, ashersky, mcmc (obviously that would have been wrong) but have been so bad this game I decided to not go with my gut and hope.
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I was just thinking. What if scum and town get coins differently? That would explain why if yuma was scum on a team he might think that people on lynches get money. It might be true for everyone on the scum team that people on lynches get coins. And they thought it was true for everyone. Maybe the scum team does get money from being on a lynch, but town players don't. This is speculative, I know, but it's one more thing that makes me suspicious of yuma.
vote: yuma
I highly doubt that is the case that scum and town get coins differently. I mean maybe?
But this is disproved by Insomniac who said that he received money and was off wagon... unless you also think he is scum?
I don't want this to turn into a massive claim of who received how much money, that would be counter productive.
I actually think a massive claim works now. Town is in terrible shape.
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I got cash for being on scum lynch and off town lynch. No coins for the mislynch.
Yuma got coins every night? Makes sense as scum. Off scum, on town, on town. Caught.
And yes Eevee, we suck for being led around by scum!yuma AGAIN.
This is just so bad. You are completely ignoring everything in the game and are only looking at an alleged scum slip. You do this every game too. You think you find these magical scum slips and they almost always aren't what they turn out to be and always the case with me.
I understand if you want to vote for me because of my voting history, scumminess, etc. But this reason is complete and utter bull and you know it.
vote: ashersky
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I was just thinking. What if scum and town get coins differently? That would explain why if yuma was scum on a team he might think that people on lynches get money. It might be true for everyone on the scum team that people on lynches get coins. And they thought it was true for everyone. Maybe the scum team does get money from being on a lynch, but town players don't. This is speculative, I know, but it's one more thing that makes me suspicious of yuma.
vote: yuma
I highly doubt that is the case that scum and town get coins differently. I mean maybe?
But this is disproved by Insomniac who said that he received money and was off wagon... unless you also think he is scum?
I don't want this to turn into a massive claim of who received how much money, that would be counter productive.
I actually think a massive claim works now. Town is in terrible shape.
sure let's just give scum all the more information so that they can better direct their scum kill! DUMB!
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Also, Yuma with nothing to say now is a huge scum tell for him specifically.
and this just makes me mad. My wife comes home and I turn off the computer to say hi and great her? I refuse to be glued to my computer every second of every day. sorry if that makes me scummy. Either you are scum directing another mislynch or you are blinded by your own preconceived notions and are turning everything I do into reaffirmations.
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I was just thinking. What if scum and town get coins differently? That would explain why if yuma was scum on a team he might think that people on lynches get money. It might be true for everyone on the scum team that people on lynches get coins. And they thought it was true for everyone. Maybe the scum team does get money from being on a lynch, but town players don't. This is speculative, I know, but it's one more thing that makes me suspicious of yuma.
vote: yuma
I highly doubt that is the case that scum and town get coins differently. I mean maybe?
But this is disproved by Insomniac who said that he received money and was off wagon... unless you also think he is scum?
I don't want this to turn into a massive claim of who received how much money, that would be counter productive.
I actually think a massive claim works now. Town is in terrible shape.
Exactly why is town in terrible shape? By my count, town still outnumbers scum 2:1...
Also, I won't participate in a mass claim to damn or clear just one person especially when we'd just be speculating.
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I'm against a massclaim, scum could easily say they got different amounts of coins than they did and confuse us. And I don't see anything that that would do to help us.
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I was just thinking. What if scum and town get coins differently? That would explain why if yuma was scum on a team he might think that people on lynches get money. It might be true for everyone on the scum team that people on lynches get coins. And they thought it was true for everyone. Maybe the scum team does get money from being on a lynch, but town players don't. This is speculative, I know, but it's one more thing that makes me suspicious of yuma.
vote: yuma
I highly doubt that is the case that scum and town get coins differently. I mean maybe?
But this is disproved by Insomniac who said that he received money and was off wagon... unless you also think he is scum?
I don't want this to turn into a massive claim of who received how much money, that would be counter productive.
I don't see how Insomniac disproves it, in fact Insomniac would only disprove it if he was scum and didn't get money for being on a lynch, something we couldn't prove until the game was over since we can't trust a scum player. I admit my theory is pretty speculative, but it's a possible explanation for why you might think that. My vote is mostly for your scummy voting record, and the fact that you're still alive when you're clearly leading town to our detriment. This might have been a scum slip and it might not have been, but you are scummy, one of the scummiest players now in my opinion. I am comfortable voting for you.
PPE: I also oppose a mass claim of our finances. I don't see what we'd learn from it, but I do see it helping scum.
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Also, Yuma with nothing to say now is a huge scum tell for him specifically.
and this just makes me mad. My wife comes home and I turn off the computer to say hi and great her? I refuse to be glued to my computer every second of every day. sorry if that makes me scummy. Either you are scum directing another mislynch or you are blinded by your own preconceived notions and are turning everything I do into reaffirmations.
You can get mad. Doesn't bother me. We make each other mad often enough. You are here now, responding. So what's the big problem? I was pointing out that you NOT responding is scummy. You ARE responding. So null there. I don't understand the anger, but feel free to stay wound up.
Exactly why is town in terrible shape? By my count, town still outnumbers scum 2:1...
Also, I won't participate in a mass claim to damn or clear just one person especially when we'd just be speculating.
7 vs 3. 1 mislynch away from mylo. That's terrible shape, any way you cut it.
As for mass claims, I don't see it as a way to clear anyone. Stuff I have to claim, only helps town at this point. If scum haven't been to every room on the map by now, that's too bad for them. We're at the point where we need to get the town members who have money in a position to buy the powers that can help us survive. Claiming is the only way to do that now.
I understand if you want to vote for me because of my voting history, scumminess, etc. But this reason is complete and utter bull and you know it.
How many times are you going to blatantly point out how scummy you've been and watch us town NOT vote for you? This is what Eevee's talking about--we're just ignoring stuff like this and killing off town for fun instead.
I'm voting for yuma for all of it, but ESPECIALLY the scum slip. I know yuma likes to poo-poo it, but in another game, someone had a likely slip, town acted, and BOOM, dead scum. Look at the other times town have acted on scum slips. 0% anyone?
As it is, I won't move my vote to anyone but Ozle. Ozle has been, by far, the scummiest-seeming player I have ever seen in a game that I've played. That counts every single on in my signature, which are all finished games I've played. And yet, he gets treated like he's town!yuma. So fine, town won't listen to me, I won't waste my breath anymore. It's yuma or Ozle for me, the end.
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i need to reread but I'm thinking mcmc or ozle.
Without rereading I recall ashersky and someone else orchestrating the town lynch yesterday in a relatively short order. Could both of you explain that action?
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i need to reread but I'm thinking mcmc or ozle.
mcmc is dead?
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i need to reread but I'm thinking mcmc or ozle.
Without rereading I recall ashersky and someone else orchestrating the town lynch yesterday in a relatively short order. Could both of you explain that action?
Day needed to end. Yuma set up the hammer for me.
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i need to reread but I'm thinking mcmc or ozle.
mcmc is dead?
Ha.. Hmmh. Why is there no analysis on why mcmc? (my cursory phone access has me being this caught up, embarrassing)
Yuma and ashersky, I suspect you both so much for that. Huge games like this are so frustrating because it's hard to keep things straight and hard to convince enough people but damnit :/
Ash is so incredibly brash though.. maybe he is sacrificing himself for the greater good again? only this time it's his scum teams good and he just takes the fall.
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"The day needed to end" is my #1 most hated reason for contributing in a bad lynch.
I was pretty sure I wouldn't vote for people from the kooshie wagon but vote: ashersky
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"The day needed to end" is my #1 most hated reason for contributing in a bad lynch.
I was pretty sure I wouldn't vote for people from the kooshie wagon but vote: ashersky
You realize this is hilarious, right? YOU were JUST complaining about how we lynched off-scum wagon twice in a row. Guess where I was. Off-scum wagon.
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I don't see how Insomniac disproves it, in fact Insomniac would only disprove it if he was scum and didn't get money for being on a lynch, something we couldn't prove until the game was over since we can't trust a scum player. I admit my theory is pretty speculative, but it's a possible explanation for why you might think that. My vote is mostly for your scummy voting record, and the fact that you're still alive when you're clearly leading town to our detriment. This might have been a scum slip and it might not have been, but you are scummy, one of the scummiest players now in my opinion. I am comfortable voting for you.
You are right about the point about Insomniac.
However there is a line in your quote I would like to discuss with you...
Why does scum perform night kills?
Scum generally tries to use its night kills to either kill power roles or to eliminate players who are perceived as town to be IC or close to it, thereby keeping up the number of players who could potentially be lynched in future days.
I am far from being considered an IC in this game--in fact I am rarely considered that, it seems that scum usually sees me as a potential lynch in a later day because of my reputation for being tricksy... I dont' mind this stereotype because it means I generally get to live longer in games, which is cool!
So why would scum kill me? Why would they kill me when I am making their job easier by being far from pro-town in this game? They wouldn't. They would see me as a potential mislynch down the road.
So yes I agree that you can and probably should think I am scummy from my voting record and bad play, but to think me scummy because I am still alive is very counter intuitive.
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Ok, here now.
I used an Oracle I investigated Jimmmmm two nights ago and he's Town. I almost came out with it yesterday, but Yuma was pushing it so hard I didn't feel comfortable about it. If you don't believe me, see my flipped read on him.
Though I wished I had saved it and used it on Yuma last night. I'm extremely worried that he really is scum leading Town, and it didn't become so appearant until yesterday.
I am, however, going to Vote: ashersky. There's whole ashersky vs. Ozle thing, and I think that Ozle is obvtown and ashersky is just looking for the easy lynch, and then back off if he flips Town. Also, Jorbles and him are both jumping too much on this Yuma lynch, which feels scum driven even though the lynch would be informational.
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Question for Yuma: Why did you roleblock Raerae instead of me? You said you were highly suspicion of me and my lurking all day, but you never roleblocked me when you could!?
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As it is, I won't move my vote to anyone but Ozle. Ozle has been, by far, the scummiest-seeming player I have ever seen in a game that I've played. That counts every single on in my signature, which are all finished games I've played. And yet, he gets treated like he's town!yuma. So fine, town won't listen to me, I won't waste my breath anymore. It's yuma or Ozle for me, the end.
this right here... is ashersky being scum.
He is trying a really good move. He is trying to get a mislynch on ozle today (here I am totally speculating that ozle is in fact scum, something I have had a pretty good read about for a while and ash's suspicion of him and this post make me think he is even townier) by trying to manipulate me into voting for ozle. This sort of ozle, yuma or me forces town's hand, and especially my hand to try to get us to go to ozle. If that succeeds and especially if I am on that wagon, ultimately results in town!ozle getting lynched, and everyone extremely suspicious of me going into night and what happens day5? yuma gets lynched in mylo.
Well I for one am not falling for it.
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something really weird about arch's claim.. right oracle investigates two people?
Right?
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quote from sudgy:
I saw an item called the Oracle, and when you used it you selected two people and would be told if one of them is scum. So, you who bought the Oracle, if you used it, say so now and who you suspected. It would be great to get two townies cleared or to figure out one of two people is scum. If no one claims, either mafia bought it or they haven't used it yet. If someone claims, we need to think about if that person was mafia and what they would do.
vote: archetype
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now that is a scum slip ash.
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As it is, I won't move my vote to anyone but Ozle. Ozle has been, by far, the scummiest-seeming player I have ever seen in a game that I've played. That counts every single on in my signature, which are all finished games I've played. And yet, he gets treated like he's town!yuma. So fine, town won't listen to me, I won't waste my breath anymore. It's yuma or Ozle for me, the end.
this right here... is ashersky being scum.
He is trying a really good move. He is trying to get a mislynch on ozle today (here I am totally speculating that ozle is in fact scum, something I have had a pretty good read about for a while and ash's suspicion of him and this post make me think he is even townier) by trying to manipulate me into voting for ozle. This sort of ozle, yuma or me forces town's hand, and especially my hand to try to get us to go to ozle. If that succeeds and especially if I am on that wagon, ultimately results in town!ozle getting lynched, and everyone extremely suspicious of me going into night and what happens day5? yuma gets lynched in mylo.
Well I for one am not falling for it.
Why is a scum lynch a mislynch?
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As it is, I won't move my vote to anyone but Ozle. Ozle has been, by far, the scummiest-seeming player I have ever seen in a game that I've played. That counts every single on in my signature, which are all finished games I've played. And yet, he gets treated like he's town!yuma. So fine, town won't listen to me, I won't waste my breath anymore. It's yuma or Ozle for me, the end.
this right here... is ashersky being scum.
He is trying a really good move. He is trying to get a mislynch on ozle today (here I am totally speculating that ozle is in fact scum, something I have had a pretty good read about for a while and ash's suspicion of him and this post make me think he is even townier) by trying to manipulate me into voting for ozle. This sort of ozle, yuma or me forces town's hand, and especially my hand to try to get us to go to ozle. If that succeeds and especially if I am on that wagon, ultimately results in town!ozle getting lynched, and everyone extremely suspicious of me going into night and what happens day5? yuma gets lynched in mylo.
Well I for one am not falling for it.
Why is a scum lynch a mislynch?
sorry ozle should be town... see that I have a town read on him in sentence below that...
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I was about to say the same thing. Vote: Archetype.
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Thanks, yuma. That whole post sort of confused me and that helps.
It can't really be that easy, can it?
Vote: Archetype
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can you double check that about oracle sudgy just to be 100% sure?
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It can't really be that easy, can it?
it is the break we have been waiting for!
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quote from sudgy:
I saw an item called the Oracle, and when you used it you selected two people and would be told if one of them is scum. So, you who bought the Oracle, if you used it, say so now and who you suspected. It would be great to get two townies cleared or to figure out one of two people is scum. If no one claims, either mafia bought it or they haven't used it yet. If someone claims, we need to think about if that person was mafia and what they would do.
vote: archetype
I think you misunderstood me Jimmmmm and raerae are not scum. Why do think it's a scumslip?
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Oh crap. I just checked back and I left out raerae. It was a mistake! Don't lynch me over a typo!
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Wait, wait, wait...are we sure we believe sudgy? Eevee has been the only one to confirm his gold key thing.
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Ok, here now.
I used an Oracle I investigated Jimmmmm two nights ago and he's Town. I almost came out with it yesterday, but Yuma was pushing it so hard I didn't feel comfortable about it. If you don't believe me, see my flipped read on him.
Though I wished I had saved it and used it on Yuma last night. I'm extremely worried that he really is scum leading Town, and it didn't become so appearant until yesterday.
I am, however, going to Vote: ashersky. There's whole ashersky vs. Ozle thing, and I think that Ozle is obvtown and ashersky is just looking for the easy lynch, and then back off if he flips Town. Also, Jorbles and him are both jumping too much on this Yuma lynch, which feels scum driven even though the lynch would be informational.
you said nothing about raerae
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HOLY CRAP! Gah, really! I can't believe I left it out! Seariously dont lynch me,! I'm freaking out, here. Please! it was an honest misktake!
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Someone else (I think Insomniac) confirmed that the Oracle and Gold Key were bought.
Now, the way you used the Oracle, is that you would target two players, and would be told if one of them was scum. If you targeted two townies, you would know that. If you got a scum result, you wouldn't be sure if it was only one person or both was scum.
Anyway, I think Archetype is just trying to cover up his slip. I'll keep my vote where it is.
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Sudgy, have you ever posted why you're suspicious of me? All I can find is you being suspicious of me for lurking but that was when I'd clearly posted IRL issues and v/la so I figured you'd just missed that.
Sudgy, please answer this question.
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HOLY CRAP! Gah, really! I can't believe I left it out! Seariously dont lynch me,! I'm freaking out, here. Please! it was an honest misktake!
that was wayyyyyyy more than a typo... a typo is misspelling or saying townie instead of scummy. Here you say nothing to reflect the fact that you actually investigaed two people or that you received a dual result. This wasn't just a typo. This was a slip. A big one.
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Someone else (I think Insomniac) confirmed that the Oracle and Gold Key were bought.
Now, the way you used the Oracle, is that you would target two players, and would be told if one of them was scum. If you targeted two townies, you would know that. If you got a scum result, you wouldn't be sure if it was only one person or both was scum.
Anyway, I think Archetype is just trying to cover up his slip. I'll keep my vote where it is.
Yes! I know that! That's what I used!!
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I used an Orace I investigated Jimmmmm two nights ago and he's Town. I almost came out with it yesterday, but Yuma was pushing it so hard I didn't feel comfortable about it. If you don't believe me, see my flipped read on him.
Three times you mention someone. Three times it is singular. Three times it is male. Slip, slip, slip. If it was a type... one of them would be off and the other two would be accurate.
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Sudgy, have you ever posted why you're suspicious of me? All I can find is you being suspicious of me for lurking but that was when I'd clearly posted IRL issues and v/la so I figured you'd just missed that.
Sudgy, please answer this question.
It was mainly your lurking, and you've just felt "off" to me. I can't really explain that.
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It was a mistake and scum are jumping on it faster than Yuma's lynch. Trying to lynch a Cop simply because of a typo?? You guys aren't suspicious at all??
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It was a mistake and scum are jumping on it faster than Yuma's lynch. Trying to lynch a Cop simply because of a typo?? You guys aren't suspicious at all??
OK, not moving my vote but want to hear this out...why Jimmmmmm and me?
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It was a mistake and scum are jumping on it faster than Yuma's lynch. Trying to lynch a Cop simply because of a typo?? You guys aren't suspicious at all??
OK, not moving my vote but want to hear this out...why Jimmmmmm and me?
Well Jimmmmm because I was suspicious of him, and you because you were suspicious with the Kooshie lynch.
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Gah!
Ok. I'm going to step away from the computer before I say something I shouldn't. I can't believe myself that I would make such an idiotic mistake.
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Gah!
Ok. I'm going to step away from the computer before I say something I shouldn't. I can't believe myself that I would make such an idiotic mistake.
something like... about how you were pretending to use oracle on your scum partner? Would you be that daring?
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Ok, here now.
I used an Oracle I investigated Jimmmmm two nights ago and he's Town. I almost came out with it yesterday, but Yuma was pushing it so hard I didn't feel comfortable about it. If you don't believe me, see my flipped read on him.
Though I wished I had saved it and used it on Yuma last night. I'm extremely worried that he really is scum leading Town, and it didn't become so appearant until yesterday.
I am, however, going to Vote: ashersky. There's whole ashersky vs. Ozle thing, and I think that Ozle is obvtown and ashersky is just looking for the easy lynch, and then back off if he flips Town. Also, Jorbles and him are both jumping too much on this Yuma lynch, which feels scum driven even though the lynch would be informational.
Yuma, is Arch scum bussing me now?
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As it is, I won't move my vote to anyone but Ozle. Ozle has been, by far, the scummiest-seeming player I have ever seen in a game that I've played. That counts every single on in my signature, which are all finished games I've played. And yet, he gets treated like he's town!yuma. So fine, town won't listen to me, I won't waste my breath anymore. It's yuma or Ozle for me, the end.
this right here... is ashersky being scum.
He is trying a really good move. He is trying to get a mislynch on ozle today (here I am totally speculating that ozle is in fact scum, something I have had a pretty good read about for a while and ash's suspicion of him and this post make me think he is even townier) by trying to manipulate me into voting for ozle. This sort of ozle, yuma or me forces town's hand, and especially my hand to try to get us to go to ozle. If that succeeds and especially if I am on that wagon, ultimately results in town!ozle getting lynched, and everyone extremely suspicious of me going into night and what happens day5? yuma gets lynched in mylo.
Well I for one am not falling for it.
No, this is ashersky trying to be good town, something I'm not usually. As far as I'm concerned, there's a 99% chance that at least one of you and Ozle are scum, and a 75% chance you both are scum.
You know I don't care if I die as town. That's well known. Go ahead and get me lynched. I'll self-hammer and laugh so hard at you and your ridiculous reads in the speccy. You, of all people, read me better than anyone else. At least, you have until now if you really think I'm scum.
And so, if you push my mislynch through, you'll be seen for the lying scum that you are. Because it is well documented throughout f.ds that yuma knows ashersky. So you forcing an ashersky mislynch is bad yuma play, which equals scum yuma play.
It's time to bus your teammate Ozle.
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Ok, here now.
I used an Oracle I investigated Jimmmmm two nights ago and he's Town. I almost came out with it yesterday, but Yuma was pushing it so hard I didn't feel comfortable about it. If you don't believe me, see my flipped read on him.
Though I wished I had saved it and used it on Yuma last night. I'm extremely worried that he really is scum leading Town, and it didn't become so appearant until yesterday.
I am, however, going to Vote: ashersky. There's whole ashersky vs. Ozle thing, and I think that Ozle is obvtown and ashersky is just looking for the easy lynch, and then back off if he flips Town. Also, Jorbles and him are both jumping too much on this Yuma lynch, which feels scum driven even though the lynch would be informational.
Yuma, is Arch scum bussing me now?
I have no idea.
Right now I want to lynch arch. Any thoughts on you are no where near as solid as this. If/when arch flips scum I will re-evaluate you the way I always re-evaluate people after a flip.
Do you think Arch made a typo or a slip? That is the pertinent question of the moment.
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Do you think Arch made a typo or a slip? That is the pertinent question of the moment.
I want to believe it was a typo. But really, it's not a typo.
I think your pronoun point is valid, and there's no way he was including raerae in that Jimmmmm paragraph. Did he plan to write a raerae para? Maybe. But omitting a sentence or paragraph is not a typo. I think he's caught. Plus, he was off-Kooshie wagon.
vote: archetype
Oh look, I'm scummy because I said I wouldn't vote for anyone but Ozle and yuma and now I'm voting Arch.
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Oh look, I'm scummy because I said I wouldn't vote for anyone but Ozle and yuma and now I'm voting Arch.
I think you are being facetious but I am going to treat this as a real statement.
I disagree. When someone is presented with new facts that were not anticipated to be had it is scummy to hold to their former position and not deviate from it. So no I do not find you scummy for voting arch.
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Vote Count 4.3
yuma (1) -- Jorbles
ashersky (2) -- Eevee, Archetype
Archetype (4) -- yuma, sudgy, raerae, ashersky {L-2}
Not Voting (3) -- Ozle, Jimm, Insomniac
With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Deadline is May 12 at 7:00 PM. You will start eating into your banked time (16 days) on Friday.
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Ok... things we do need to consider here
1. no one else has claimed Oracle (although not everyone has already posted) this isn't that concerning because I don't think that scum would fake claim it just to be counter claimed and potentially lose a pretty good advantage
2. if no one else counter claims it, then that must mean that either a) arch is telling the truth or b) that arch bought it as preventative measures or c) one of his scum buddies bought it... and arch decided to pretend to use it to gain towncred.
3. or somehow scum is able to know at least some of the roles that townies obtain and either lio, lekkit or mcmc obtained oracle but were unable to use it and died with it and scum knew that so they again pretended to have it to gain towncred.
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Ok... things we do need to consider here
1. no one else has claimed Oracle (although not everyone has already posted) this isn't that concerning because I don't think that scum would fake claim it just to be counter claimed and potentially lose a pretty good advantage
2. if no one else counter claims it, then that must mean that either a) arch is telling the truth or b) that arch bought it as preventative measures or c) one of his scum buddies bought it... and arch decided to pretend to use it to gain towncred.
3. or somehow scum is able to know at least some of the roles that townies obtain and either lio, lekkit or mcmc obtained oracle but were unable to use it and died with it and scum knew that so they again pretended to have it to gain towncred.
Notes:
1. On option #1, it's possible Arch claimed to get the draw out the real claimer. But I'm not sure that helps them any.
2. On Option #2, Arch could in fact be telling the truth. Thing is, if he or a scum buddy bought it, he should have known how it worked a little bit better.
3. Option #3 seems most likely? Maybe scum sees what cards the people they NK have?
I mean, it's so bad a fake claim that I want to think he's telling the truth. But really, I can't call that a typo at all.
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I think option number three is most likely.
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I know... I mean I would put him telling the truth at like ~ 10%. Maybe. That even feels high. It is totally possible, but if it is... it is a major, major mistake.
But at the same time the mistake is as easily (or as difficultly) made as scum and town. So I guess I actually feel ok about it.
Although to reiterate on option 2. He may have just bought it and didn't use it. (I mean what purpose would scum have to use it? None! They know who is scum.) So for that reason he wouldn't get a PM from robz explaining that either both are town or at least one was scum. That sort of a PM and result would stick into your brain I think. But as scum... he wouldn't have received such a PM and it could be very easy to forget that Oracle doesn't work that way... especially if that was his first time seeing such a Robzified role.
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Also, Arch has been around and not posting here. Scum tell, as I've mentioned previously.
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I don't know what else to say, Asher. I'm town who made a really, really big mistake that I can't amend without you all thinking I'm scum.
It was a big typo, and one I hope to never make again, but that's all I can say.
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I don't think it matters, but I should note that I've been posting here via IPod, and that lends myself to making mistakes. But you guys don't believe me, so whatever. I bet it makes Town really want to come out and claim results knowing they will likely be lynched if they make even one small mistake.
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I don't know what else to say, Asher. I'm town who made a really, really big mistake that I can't amend without you all thinking I'm scum.
It was a big typo, and one I hope to never make again, but that's all I can say.
I will say, your first post where you seem surprised and mention raerae was believable.
But the problem is there is nothing in the original post that makes it sound like you meant to mention anyone else. Where in that post were you planning on fitting raerae?
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I don't know what else to say, Asher. I'm town who made a really, really big mistake that I can't amend without you all thinking I'm scum.
It was a big typo, and one I hope to never make again, but that's all I can say.
I will say, your first post where you seem surprised and mention raerae was believable.
But the problem is there is nothing in the original post that makes it sound like you meant to mention anyone else. Where in that post were you planning on fitting raerae?
I intended on adding another paragraph about it after Jimmm's, but I must have forgot it and hit send.
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I don't know what else to say, Asher. I'm town who made a really, really big mistake that I can't amend without you all thinking I'm scum.
It was a big typo, and one I hope to never make again, but that's all I can say.
I will say, your first post where you seem surprised and mention raerae was believable.
But the problem is there is nothing in the original post that makes it sound like you meant to mention anyone else. Where in that post were you planning on fitting raerae?
I intended on adding another paragraph about it after Jimmm's, but I must have forgot it and hit send.
Can you go more in-depth on the card and you? When did you buy it, where did you buy it, when did you use it...
My biggest problem with your statement is your first line. It says "I used the Oracle on N2 on Jimmmmm." I don't think I'd buy you starting a second paragraph with "I also used it on raerae." It Oracle was like a 2-shot cop thing, where you used it N2 on Jimmmmm and N3 on raerae, then maybe.
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As much as I hate map claiming/information claiming, I guess I have to do it to save my own butt:
I bought it Night 2 in a Silver Room Next to a Gold Room and 2 Hallways. It cost $8 and I did not use it the night I bought it because I had no one I wanted to investigate. I used it the following night on Jimmmmm (to see if I was right about him) and Raerae (I was generally suspicious of her).
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Well I have to go everyone and won't be back until 8 am forum time tommorow, so please don't lynch me before then.
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As much as I hate map claiming/information claiming, I guess I have to do it to save my own butt:
I bought it Night 2 in a Silver Room Next to a Gold Room and 2 Hallways. It cost $8 and I did not use it the night I bought it because I had no one I wanted to investigate. I used it the following night on Jimmmmm (to see if I was right about him) and Raerae (I was generally suspicious of her).
Southwest corner of the map?
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As it is, I won't move my vote to anyone but Ozle. Ozle has been, by far, the scummiest-seeming player I have ever seen in a game that I've played. That counts every single on in my signature, which are all finished games I've played. And yet, he gets treated like he's town!yuma. So fine, town won't listen to me, I won't waste my breath anymore. It's yuma or Ozle for me, the end.
this right here... is ashersky being scum.
He is trying a really good move. He is trying to get a mislynch on ozle today (here I am totally speculating that ozle is in fact scum, something I have had a pretty good read about for a while and ash's suspicion of him and this post make me think he is even townier) by trying to manipulate me into voting for ozle. This sort of ozle, yuma or me forces town's hand, and especially my hand to try to get us to go to ozle. If that succeeds and especially if I am on that wagon, ultimately results in town!ozle getting lynched, and everyone extremely suspicious of me going into night and what happens day5? yuma gets lynched in mylo.
Well I for one am not falling for it.
No, this is ashersky trying to be good town, something I'm not usually. As far as I'm concerned, there's a 99% chance that at least one of you and Ozle are scum, and a 75% chance you both are scum.
You know I don't care if I die as town. That's well known. Go ahead and get me lynched. I'll self-hammer and laugh so hard at you and your ridiculous reads in the speccy. You, of all people, read me better than anyone else. At least, you have until now if you really think I'm scum.
And so, if you push my mislynch through, you'll be seen for the lying scum that you are. Because it is well documented throughout f.ds that yuma knows ashersky. So you forcing an ashersky mislynch is bad yuma play, which equals scum yuma play.
It's time to bus your teammate Ozle.
Posts like this, with threatening people off of voting you, promising grudgy self hammers and intentionally exaggarating probabilities are very annoying. You clearly DON'T want to be lynched here. Its just so scummy, despite your day 1 wagon position which was more than nullified by your blunder with yesterdays wagon anyways. Also, I wasn't kidding when I sais not offering yourself se the lynch makes you scummy.
Lynching archetype would have one benefit no one has mentioned: we'd know jimm and raerae are town if arche flipped town. But, scum could just nightkill one of them, it's probably too late for such a trade. I think it's conceivable archetype could have just made a mistake, so the thing I think we need to analyze is if that would have been a reasonable scum lie. it's an expensive item, would they buy it in favor of items that directly help scum? Could they know someone else bought it before dying? Would archetype just outright risk a counterclaim? I don't really think any of those cases are super likely, but the slip is pretty convincing.
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As much as I hate map claiming/information claiming, I guess I have to do it to save my own butt:
I bought it Night 2 in a Silver Room Next to a Gold Room and 2 Hallways. It cost $8 and I did not use it the night I bought it because I had no one I wanted to investigate. I used it the following night on Jimmmmm (to see if I was right about him) and Raerae (I was generally suspicious of her).
Hold on...
You bought it Night 2 didn't use it that night. Here there are two possibilities... You bought it night 2 and after day2 (which would actually be our third night of map activity) which directly contradicts what you say below in that you investigated two nights ago... So last night was night 3 and the night before was night 2. So if you used it the next night that would be last night.
I used an Oracle I investigated Jimmmmm two nights ago and he's Town. I almost came out with it yesterday, but Yuma was pushing it so hard I didn't feel comfortable about it. If you don't believe me, see my flipped read on him.
Or you mean you bought it Night 1 (the second night of map activity) and used it night2? Is that what you mean? If it is I have another question.... How in the world did you have $8 to buy an oracle? I have an extremely hard time believing that, especially as you weren't on the kooshie wagon to get whatever money is obtained from being on a wagon. We all started out with $3? Add you had to go into a silver room to get it!
To further this... did you buy it or did sparky buy it. Because sparky was the one alive Night1... not you.
There are so many questions above that I don't even know where to start. You are lying.
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As it is, I won't move my vote to anyone but Ozle. Ozle has been, by far, the scummiest-seeming player I have ever seen in a game that I've played. That counts every single on in my signature, which are all finished games I've played. And yet, he gets treated like he's town!yuma. So fine, town won't listen to me, I won't waste my breath anymore. It's yuma or Ozle for me, the end.
this right here... is ashersky being scum.
He is trying a really good move. He is trying to get a mislynch on ozle today (here I am totally speculating that ozle is in fact scum, something I have had a pretty good read about for a while and ash's suspicion of him and this post make me think he is even townier) by trying to manipulate me into voting for ozle. This sort of ozle, yuma or me forces town's hand, and especially my hand to try to get us to go to ozle. If that succeeds and especially if I am on that wagon, ultimately results in town!ozle getting lynched, and everyone extremely suspicious of me going into night and what happens day5? yuma gets lynched in mylo.
Well I for one am not falling for it.
No, this is ashersky trying to be good town, something I'm not usually. As far as I'm concerned, there's a 99% chance that at least one of you and Ozle are scum, and a 75% chance you both are scum.
You know I don't care if I die as town. That's well known. Go ahead and get me lynched. I'll self-hammer and laugh so hard at you and your ridiculous reads in the speccy. You, of all people, read me better than anyone else. At least, you have until now if you really think I'm scum.
And so, if you push my mislynch through, you'll be seen for the lying scum that you are. Because it is well documented throughout f.ds that yuma knows ashersky. So you forcing an ashersky mislynch is bad yuma play, which equals scum yuma play.
It's time to bus your teammate Ozle.
Posts like this, with threatening people off of voting you, promising grudgy self hammers and intentionally exaggarating probabilities are very annoying. You clearly DON'T want to be lynched here. Its just so scummy, despite your day 1 wagon position which was more than nullified by your blunder with yesterdays wagon anyways. Also, I wasn't kidding when I sais not offering yourself se the lynch makes you scummy.
Lynching archetype would have one benefit no one has mentioned: we'd know jimm and raerae are town if arche flipped town. But, scum could just nightkill one of them, it's probably too late for such a trade. I think it's conceivable archetype could have just made a mistake, so the thing I think we need to analyze is if that would have been a reasonable scum lie. it's an expensive item, would they buy it in favor of items that directly help scum? Could they know someone else bought it before dying? Would archetype just outright risk a counterclaim? I don't really think any of those cases are super likely, but the slip is pretty convincing.
Okay. If you say so.
vote: ashersky
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I confirm that it cost $2 to enter a Gold room last night. Don't have time to say much more at the moment. Arch's claim seems suspicious.
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I've been suspicious of Arch all game, and the holes in his claim make me think he must be scum. I say we lynch him and on the off chance that he flips town (I don't think that it's super likely now) we have two ICs (raerae, Jimmmm, and sudgy - 1 = 2)
The only thing that makes me think he might be telling the truth is that no one has counterclaimed him. Can someone who saw the Oracle verify the price of it, or his description of the rooms it was in?
(I would vote, but I don't want to give Arch the chance to quickhammer himself.)
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Havent fully caught up yet, but still suspicious of Ash and now Archetype, I will say that I can verify an Oracle has been purchased, although how someone had $8 on an early night like that is beyond me.
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Alright here is everything on Archetype.
Let's start with the big one, his claim to be Oracle. I have already dissected this to show that he in fact never intended to include raerae in this post, again I will highlight the nouns and the singular words which he used to describe his investigation
I used an Oracle I investigated Jimmmmm two nights ago and he's Town. I almost came out with it yesterday, but Yuma was pushing it so hard I didn't feel comfortable about it. If you don't believe me, see my flipped read on him.
He next says this:
As much as I hate map claiming/information claiming, I guess I have to do it to save my own butt:
I bought it Night 2 in a Silver Room Next to a Gold Room and 2 Hallways. It cost $8 and I did not use it the night I bought it because I had no one I wanted to investigate. I used it the following night on Jimmmmm (to see if I was right about him) and Raerae (I was generally suspicious of her).
Like I said above, but will hopefully say a little bit clearer here, Arch:
1. bought Oracle Night 2 (as in the third night we had map actions). If this is the case, then he is caught in a lie. It is a lie because he said in the first quote that he used it, not last night (night 3) but the night before (night 2). But in the second quote he said that he bought it night 2 and didn't use it until the next night (night 3). If this is the case it is a lie.
2. bought Oracle Night 1 (as in the second night we had map actions) and used it Night 2. If this is the case, Archetype didn't buy it. Sparky did because sparky was still in the game. This would be a crucial piece to leave out of the claim and it is blatantly missing here. This claim fits the scenario (arch buying it night 1 and using it night 2 (two nights ago). But lacks the details necessary to make it believable about sparky.
2a. Furthermore for this to be true, sparky would have had to have had $8 Night1--enough to buy the Oracle, in addition to the $2 needed to enter into the Silver Room. I am highly skeptical that a player could have that much money that early into the game. I for one received no money that day as I already said. Sparky and I were in very similar positions that day, both on the lower side of posting, both off wagon. I do not see how he could come into $8 and I get none.
But let's look further at Arch's claim and other things.
I used it the following night on Jimmmmm (to see if I was right about him) and Raerae (I was generally suspicious of her).
So he says he used it on Jimmm to see if he was right about him:
Here is what arch has said about Jimmm:
Day2:
People I want to lynch:
Jorbles, Jimmmmm, or mail-mi
...
Jimmmmm: Sort of the same reason as Jorbles, except opposite. He's reached L-1 several times, but people keep drawing attention away from his lynch. He also pushed the mapclaiming-twice, something that I strongly feel shouldn't happen, and have said some pretty generally scummy things. He also got pretty angry about the wagon that was forming on him. And anger usually means scum.
In all honesty, Jimmmmm, I don't think I want to see you lynched today. You started out scummy earlier this day, but you've come around. I think that the Kooshie townread on you was suspicious and you bringing up map claiming is scummy, but that doesn't mean you're scum. Scum try to frame Town for things all the time.
Gah! I'd really rather lynch mail-mi today, and Jimmmmm on a later day, but fine. I'll vote: Jimmmmm to hurry this day up.
Day3:
He says nothing about Jimmm all of day3 (he only had 7 posts) contrary to what he says in his defense quote where he says that his reads had flipped on him.
Here is what arch has said about raerae:
Day2:
Pretty big townreads on Ozle, raerae, and ashersky.
...
raerae: Drove that Kooshie lynch all the way. I'd be very surprised if she was scum, but she's a fairly advanced player and knows a good bussing opportunity when she sees one.
Day3: Nothing, even after I had begun to present something of a case on her.
Day4: Immediately after he claimed he seemed surprised that I would roleblock raerae, implying that he wasn't suspicious of her.Question for Yuma: Why did you roleblock Raerae instead of me? You said you were highly suspicion of me and my lurking all day, but you never roleblocked me when you could!?
Other things pertaining to the oracle:
Day3 he said this:
I'm going to go with Vote: Lekkit. He lurkied inMAII and was scum and I could see him doing it again. Him or Jorbles are my preferred lynches for today.
I think the owner of the Oracle should claim. There's nothing worse than a Cop dying knowing who's cleared of scum and even worse, who's scum. I also believe sudgy's claim, if he were scum, it would take just one move to find out if he was lying or not.
If arch was actually the town oracle, why would he go against what he said initially? He says here that Oracle should claim day3, but he doesn't and doesn't seem to care that there is the potential that he might die during the night (I will admit that it seems unlikely that Arch would be a good NK, but still there is always a chance... a weird mafia kill, a vig, something)
Also note that Arch did not claim Oracle when he came under intense scrutiny and was in danger of being lynched day3.
All of this makes me think that he decided to fabricate this lie during last night but apparently didn't fabricate it well enough to make it believable.
add in his scumminess of:
1. being off the kooshie wagon, but attempting to buss once it got started (as sparky)
2. being on both the mail-mi and lekkit wagons
3. being extremely lurky, probably more lurky than any other player in the game
I can't imagine a scenario where arch is town.
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I bet it makes Town really want to come out and claim results knowing they will likely be lynched if they make even one small mistake.
A couple of things about this post, mostly theory talk, but I think it needs to be said.
1. Your premise is that if you are town and we lynch you it is our fault. This is false. If you are town, this one is on you. You made the mistake and would be reacting the same way as us if you were in our shoes.
2. Your premise that other PRs would be hesitant to claim is also false. If anything is to be learned from you flipping town it is that PRs should be more careful about the way that they format their claims and investigation results. PRs need to be absolutely sure that everything that goes into a claiming post is accurate and fully fleshed out and explained with zero holes. That is the lesson that would be learned if you were to turn up town.
3. You say you made one small mistake. Your mistake was not small. It was huge! It wasn't just one mistake either, it was multiple.
But like I said above, I can't conceive a scenario where you are town. So perhaps this whole post is moot. If anything this post is an attempt to appeal to emotion, another scumtell to add to the very long list above you.
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Wow yeah. "I think the owner of the Oracle should claim." Which Townie actually says this if they're the owner of the Oracle. Sounds more like he was going to keep it hidden and then forgot that he said this and decided he wanted some Town cred.
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Wow yeah. "I think the owner of the Oracle should claim." Which Townie actually says this if they're the owner of the Oracle. Sounds more like he was going to keep it hidden and then forgot that he said this and decided he wanted some Town cred.
Yeah, that's pretty bad. Does anyone not want to lynch him? I think this is a pretty slam dunk situation.
That said, we've got a bit of time to kill before Friday when we start eating into bankable time. Should we discuss who to lynch tomorrow? Archetype being scum makes me less suspicious of yuma because that's a pretty huge bus he was doing if it is. Barring some scenario where Archetype and yuma staged this it seems unlikely.
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Archetype said it was next to a gold room and two hallways. It was next to three hallways, no gold rooms. It did cost $8 though.
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Wow yeah. "I think the owner of the Oracle should claim." Which Townie actually says this if they're the owner of the Oracle. Sounds more like he was going to keep it hidden and then forgot that he said this and decided he wanted some Town cred.
Yeah, that's pretty bad. Does anyone not want to lynch him? I think this is a pretty slam dunk situation.
That said, we've got a bit of time to kill before Friday when we start eating into bankable time. Should we discuss who to lynch tomorrow? Archetype being scum makes me less suspicious of yuma because that's a pretty huge bus he was doing if it is. Barring some scenario where Archetype and yuma staged this it seems unlikely.
well I think something to discuss either now or post lynch is what to make of raerae and jimmm if/when arch flips scum.
it is a tricky scenario because arch either put scum in the set of two or he didn't.
Let's say he didn't and raerae and jimmm are in fact town. This effectively makes two ICs out of raerae and Jimmm... at least for as long as archetype is alive they will be. This isn't what scum wants as they want to maintain a relatively high [ ] of potential mislynches within town. However, the plus side is that if Arch ever flips scum via a vig or a lynch, we as town might begin to suspect either raerae or jimmm and subsequently mislynch them.
On the other hand, let's say one of Jimmm or raerae (I would say both would be crazy... but who knows right?) is scum (let's say for this purpose that jimmm is the scum partner just for fun) and arch decided to include one in an attempt to not only get town credit for himself, but also for a partner. Here there is a very apparent risk, because this result is not only open to questioning if arch dies and flips scum, but can backfire severely if Jimmm is killed somehow and flips scum. Then town will immediately suspect arch for having a bad investigation result and appearing to protect a scum buddy.
Because of this I think raerae and jimmm mare both more likely to be town (but are not guaranteed to be so).
Also keep in mind that when arch made his initial claim he was only talking about one player (Jimmm). He threw in raerae after to cover his tracks. So scum!arch could have been much more willing to give IC status to just jimmmm. Which isn't nearly as bad as giving IC status to two players.
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Archetype said it was next to a gold room and two hallways. It was next to three hallways, no gold rooms. It did cost $8 though.
add this to the ever growing list eh?
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just some stuff to keep in mind from the opening post:
At the end of the night phase, one of you or your partners may perform the factional kill. If your kill succeeds, the player you chose will be “captured” and taken to whichever of the 2 Captured Players Vaults you choose to lock him up in. You will also have access to both of those qts, but don't post in them! Living players may gain access to those qts at some point, and you wouldn't want to give yourself away by gloating over the captured players.
...
FAQ #3
Remember that some players may have access to much less--or much more--information than you. This may make their lies seem more credible or their truths less credible. Or vice versa. Be on your guard.
FAQ #4
You will earn $$$ for doing various things. You have no idea what earns you $$$, and you will never know. When I tell you how much money you have, it might be much more--or much less--than you expected.
I wonder if one of our dead town buddies perhaps lamented over the fact that he had but hadn't revealed the Oracle results...
Also the FAQ #4 makes my point about arch having $8 to buy oracle so early in the game a little less solid, but I still think that is a very high number for someone to achieve, at least based off my coin totals thus far in the game.
FAQ #3 may also explain a situation--obviously I don't know the specifics--in which scum may have come across who owned the oracle somehow.
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whatever we decide to do I think we should wait for ozle to return before we lynch arch, just to give him a chance to say anything that needs saying. He was supposed to be back monday yes?
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Archetype, if you're scum (which I think you are), you could have covered up by saying that you investigated yourself and Jimmmmm (so you would know for certain what Jimmmmm was if you got a scum result). That might have been more believable.
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Surely you can't name yourself?
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Archetype, if you're scum (which I think you are), you could have covered up by saying that you investigated yourself and Jimmmmm (so you would know for certain what Jimmmmm was if you got a scum result). That might have been more believable.
I still wouldn't have believed it... Unless it was in the very first post about his Oracle claim. Then sure, believable.
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OK, so we're waiting for Ozle then lynching, yes? Is Ash still voting for himself or did he move back to Arche?
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Ozle hasn't been around for a while... How long should we wait for him?
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Is Ozle VLA, or should I prod him?
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Is Ozle VLA, or should I prod him?
I don't see that he posted in the v/la thread but I may have missed it if he did it a few days ago.
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He said he would be back Monday, but he isn't... So I guess you should then.
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Okay, I will prod.
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Ozle hasn't been around for a while... How long should we wait for him?
We should wait for him until it starts to eat into our bankable time. But after that mark we shouldn't wait a second longer than we need to.
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Ash, why are you still voting for yourself?
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Ash, why are you still voting for yourself?
Eevee said I am scummy if I don't.
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Vote Count 4.4
yuma (1) -- Jorbles
ashersky (3) -- Eevee, Archetype, ashersky
Archetype (3) -- yuma, sudgy, raerae
Not Voting (3) -- Ozle, Jimm, Insomniac
With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Deadline is May 12 at 7:00 PM. You will start eating into your banked time (16 days) on Friday.
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Vote: Archetype
Unless he refutes what yuma is saying convincingly, this is the obvious lynch. I'd save our bankable time and not wait for ozle.
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As it is, I won't move my vote to anyone but Ozle. Ozle has been, by far, the scummiest-seeming player I have ever seen in a game that I've played. That counts every single on in my signature, which are all finished games I've played. And yet, he gets treated like he's town!yuma. So fine, town won't listen to me, I won't waste my breath anymore. It's yuma or Ozle for me, the end.
this right here... is ashersky being scum.
He is trying a really good move. He is trying to get a mislynch on ozle today (here I am totally speculating that ozle is in fact scum, something I have had a pretty good read about for a while and ash's suspicion of him and this post make me think he is even townier) by trying to manipulate me into voting for ozle. This sort of ozle, yuma or me forces town's hand, and especially my hand to try to get us to go to ozle. If that succeeds and especially if I am on that wagon, ultimately results in town!ozle getting lynched, and everyone extremely suspicious of me going into night and what happens day5? yuma gets lynched in mylo.
Well I for one am not falling for it.
No, this is ashersky trying to be good town, something I'm not usually. As far as I'm concerned, there's a 99% chance that at least one of you and Ozle are scum, and a 75% chance you both are scum.
You know I don't care if I die as town. That's well known. Go ahead and get me lynched. I'll self-hammer and laugh so hard at you and your ridiculous reads in the speccy. You, of all people, read me better than anyone else. At least, you have until now if you really think I'm scum.
And so, if you push my mislynch through, you'll be seen for the lying scum that you are. Because it is well documented throughout f.ds that yuma knows ashersky. So you forcing an ashersky mislynch is bad yuma play, which equals scum yuma play.
It's time to bus your teammate Ozle.
Posts like this, with threatening people off of voting you, promising grudgy self hammers and intentionally exaggarating probabilities are very annoying. You clearly DON'T want to be lynched here. Its just so scummy, despite your day 1 wagon position which was more than nullified by your blunder with yesterdays wagon anyways. Also, I wasn't kidding when I sais not offering yourself se the lynch makes you scummy.
Lynching archetype would have one benefit no one has mentioned: we'd know jimm and raerae are town if arche flipped town. But, scum could just nightkill one of them, it's probably too late for such a trade. I think it's conceivable archetype could have just made a mistake, so the thing I think we need to analyze is if that would have been a reasonable scum lie. it's an expensive item, would they buy it in favor of items that directly help scum? Could they know someone else bought it before dying? Would archetype just outright risk a counterclaim? I don't really think any of those cases are super likely, but the slip is pretty convincing.
Okay. If you say so.
vote: ashersky
Eevee, you never responded to my acceding to your request. You just moved off of my wagon to join Arch's, so I'll assume I'm not your preferred lynch today?
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You are not, archetype is.
I don't think you really read my post as "ashersky, please self-vote so I can stop suspecting you." That certainly wasn't my intention.
Why did you choose to react that way? If you truly thought that's what I wanted, why were you willing to accomodate such a ridiculous request?
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You are not, archetype is.
I don't think you really read my post as "ashersky, please self-vote so I can stop suspecting you." That certainly wasn't my intention.
Why did you choose to react that way? If you truly thought that's what I wanted, why were you willing to accomodate such a ridiculous request?
I think you meant "ashersky always acts like he's willing to die, but if he's scum, it's a lie and I'm calling him on it." Not a lie, not scum, will die to prove it. Prefer Arch, though.
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You are not, archetype is.
I don't think you really read my post as "ashersky, please self-vote so I can stop suspecting you." That certainly wasn't my intention.
Why did you choose to react that way? If you truly thought that's what I wanted, why were you willing to accomodate such a ridiculous request?
I think you meant "ashersky always acts like he's willing to die, but if he's scum, it's a lie and I'm calling him on it." Not a lie, not scum, will die to prove it. Prefer Arch, though.
I thought town was in a really crappy position. Why would you offer to die just to prove a point this late in the game?
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You are not, archetype is.
I don't think you really read my post as "ashersky, please self-vote so I can stop suspecting you." That certainly wasn't my intention.
Why did you choose to react that way? If you truly thought that's what I wanted, why were you willing to accomodate such a ridiculous request?
I think you meant "ashersky always acts like he's willing to die, but if he's scum, it's a lie and I'm calling him on it." Not a lie, not scum, will die to prove it. Prefer Arch, though.
I thought town was in a really crappy position. Why would you offer to die just to prove a point this late in the game?
I hope town wouldn't lynch me to help prove my point.
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I bought it Night 2 and did not use it until Night 3. Again, I think you're mu
misunderstanding me Yuma. And I hope people are not just going to stand by and let another mislynch happen.
And sudgy, when I said it was 'by a Gold room' I meant it was somewhat close to it. At least on my map. I don't know how much you've explored.
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As much as I hate map claiming/information claiming, I guess I have to do it to save my own butt:
I bought it Night 2 in a Silver Room Next to a Gold Room and 2 Hallways. It cost $8 and I did not use it the night I bought it because I had no one I wanted to investigate. I used it the following night on Jimmmmm (to see if I was right about him) and Raerae (I was generally suspicious of her).
Southwest corner of the map?
Why are you trying to trick me? We both know it's not there.
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I bought it Night 2 and did not use it until Night 3. Again, I think you're mu
misunderstanding me Yuma. And I hope people are not just going to stand by and let another mislynch happen.
And sudgy, when I said it was 'by a Gold room' I meant it was somewhat close to it. At least on my map. I don't know how much you've explored.
LIES!!!!
I used an Oracle I investigated Jimmmmm two nights ago and he's Town. I almost came out with it yesterday, but Yuma was pushing it so hard I didn't feel comfortable about it. If you don't believe me, see my flipped read on him.
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Vote: Archetype
Unless he refutes what yuma is saying convincingly, this is the obvious lynch. I'd save our bankable time and not wait for ozle.
We're not eating into bankable time until tomorrow. I assume this is an honest mistake. Eevee's posts today have been confused. First he forgot that mcmc was dead then he forgot when bankable time started. I would say that scum Eevee would probably be paying more attention and not make these mistakes so he's probably town.
I thought I'd post my reads in case I die.
I think yuma is less scummy if Archetype flips scum as I think he will, though I admit this could be a staged blunder to setup a bus it seems unlikely. I think I'm still voting for him so Unvote. There's no one to lynch but Archetype today, and I assume this lynch will go through tomorrow morning as soon as we start into bankable time.
I'm not sure what to think of ashersky's actions today. I'll have to look at them more closely.
raerae's actions seem slightly towny, her interactions with Archetype, sudgy and yuma feel towny anyways. On top of that if she was roleblocked last night that clears her to some degree.
Jimmmm, Insomniac, and Ozle I have slight scum reads on based on today's actions, either because they haven't posted much or I forget what they posted. It's impossible that they're all scum if Archetype is scum so I assume at least one of them must be town possibly two. I will be rereading these players once Archetype flips.
sudgy is clearly town. I can't remember who verified, but I know there were multiple verifications.
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Im on board with the Archetype lynch just waiting for Ozle/Deadline.
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I thought I'd post my reads in case I die.
I will do so as well. I don't think I will die in the night, but you never know in these games.
1. Jimm - looking townier I think based off Arch's pseudo investigation of him. I have a hard time seeing scum putting their partner as their fake investigation because if Jimmm somehow ends up dying, Arch is then doomed.
2. raerae - same here. Her not being the NK is also is a point in her favor. My scummier read on her last night when I roleblocked her was very much based on me completely doubting myself, something I won't be doing much of anymore now that I realize I was actually right about Arch day2 and day3.
3. yuma - town
4. ashersky - I just really don't know. ash aggravates me sometimes and that is OK. I am known for being able to read him pretty well--although that initially started out as an argument that I used when scum to back up my made up town readings on him, but regardless I am generally pretty accurate when it comes to him. In this game he wasn't playing normal ash style, but has kinda reverted back into it as the game has progressed and become more frustrating (not just for him, but for everyone). the fact that arch voted for him makes me think he is a little less likely to be scum.
5. Insomniac - I still have a townier read on him, mostly because he has played the type of game that I could see town insomniac playing. I don't know. Insom is sophisticated enough to fake lurking to try and win as scum--and I do honestly believe that he is a bit burned out from mafia, but could be using that as a cover as mafia. But really he is more of a town read than anything else.
6. Eevee - This guy is a mystery this game. I disagree with jorble's points that his mistakes make him townier. I think they are null tells as such mistakes are so easily faked or can be completely genuine from mafia.
7. Jorbles - certainly on the more suspicious side of things.
11. sudgy - apparently very town unless someone who collaborated his claim turns out to be scum (who were those people by the way, we should keep track of them, just in case)
14. Ozle - his VLA is aggravating, but VLAs often are and I doubt it is his fault. I had a townier read on him from his reaction to the wagon day2, but that has kinda, but not completely disappeared as the days have past.
It is also worth noting who voted for Arch this game (especially day2 when it would have been super bad for scum to lose two players in two days): Let's find out!
Day2: In sequential order.
yuma, jimmmm, mail-mi, eevee, sudgy, lio (now at L-2)
I am also going to look at see what happened to this wagon, who didn't join it and who may have deflected from it...
raerae voted for ozle to put the third vote on ozle with ashersky and mcmc.
Jorbles voted Jimmm, the first vote on Jimmm at that point.
yuma moves to ozle, followed by eevee
Day3:
Jorbles, yuma, Jorbles (again), sudgy, Lekkit, yuma (again)
So people who never voted for arch day2: jorbles, insomniac, ashersky, ozle, raerea
And people who never voted for arch day2 or day3: Insomniac, ashersky, ozle, raerae
So from this I think that ash, raerae and jorbles look scummier. Ozle and insomniac to an extent, but neither of them deflected from the growing arch wagon the way these other three did. I think very strongly that at least one scum would be in this group. I think raerae is the least likely (based on stuff I mentioned before) and ash based off arch's vote on him, is a little less likely... although jorbles also has the early vote on arch day3 and was early on the kooshie wagon day4.
I think we are at the point where everyone is going to start looking a little scummy and a little towny. It is going to be a lot like Robz's last game where we got the the point where there was one scum in like 5 people and everyone appeared to be just as scummy as the other person. It was pretty horrible. But the big takeaway there was that we all didn't go back and reread, we just ignored past interactions and focused more on the last few days. That was a mistake and almost cost us the game. I encourage us to not repeat that disaster again.
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Good post yuma.
The players confirming sudgys claim were myself and Jimmm.
The reason for my recent confusion is just the fact I've been travelling and relying 100% on mobile access.
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And sudgy, when I said it was 'by a Gold room' I meant it was somewhat close to it. At least on my map. I don't know how much you've explored.
Which direction were the hallways and the gold room (the hallway leading to the gold room) coming out of the silver room?
And, in the case of scum!Archetype, I am pretty much confirmed town. It would be impossible for me, Eevee, and Jimmmmm to all be scum at that point.
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And, if Ozle still hasn't posted by tomorrow, everybody, feel free to lynch him. We don't want to lose bankable time.
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And arch, say hello to lekkit, kooshie, and mail-mi for me ;)
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And, if Ozle still hasn't posted by tomorrow, everybody, feel free to lynch him. We don't want to lose bankable time.
have you given your reads before heading into night. I think people should do that, but specifically I think you especially should.
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And, if Ozle still hasn't posted by tomorrow, everybody, feel free to lynch him. We don't want to lose bankable time.
have you given your reads before heading into night. I think people should do that, but specifically I think you especially should.
I'll do it later today. I don't have much time right now.
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I bought it Night 2 and did not use it until Night 3. Again, I think you're mu
misunderstanding me Yuma. And I hope people are not just going to stand by and let another mislynch happen.
And sudgy, when I said it was 'by a Gold room' I meant it was somewhat close to it. At least on my map. I don't know how much you've explored.
LIES!!!!
I used an Oracle I investigated Jimmmmm two nights ago and he's Town. I almost came out with it yesterday, but Yuma was pushing it so hard I didn't feel comfortable about it. If you don't believe me, see my flipped read on him.
Intent to hammer if he hits L-1.
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wait at least until ozle gets on line and sudgy puts down his reads, or until we are at the bankable deadline using mark...
A hammer before these things take place will be considered scummy play.
<speculation>Also I have no idea if hammering gets more coins or not. But if we think that it does, I think that someone a little more townier should be the hammerer in that event. (obviously not me... but not ash either).</speculation>
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wait at least until ozle gets on line and sudgy puts down his reads, or until we are at the bankable deadline using mark...
A hammer before these things take place will be considered scummy play.
<speculation>Also I have no idea if hammering gets more coins or not. But if we think that it does, I think that someone a little more townier should be the hammerer in that event. (obviously not me... but not ash either).</speculation>
I hammered town yesterday and got no coins. Hammering scum might. I got coins for being on the scum wagon.
Ozle's Barca trip is clearly over. He hasn't been on f.ds at all since Sunday. I don't think it's worth waiting for him to come and try to save his scumpartner.
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Worth what though? We aren't wasting any bankable time.
And who knows. Maybe he will have something worthwhile to say. Maybe he is a PR with results that we should know about. I have no idea. But I think we should at least wait until Friday because it costs us nothing.
Don't just assume he is scum and has nothing of worth to tell us based off your reads. You have good reads pretty often, but they aren't always 100%.
Also do you not think that it is worthwhile to know who sudgy (our IC) thinks is scummy and townie before we head into night?
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Worth what though? We aren't wasting any bankable time.
And who knows. Maybe he will have something worthwhile to say. Maybe he is a PR with results that we should know about. I have no idea. But I think we should at least wait until Friday because it costs us nothing.
Don't just assume he is scum and has nothing of worth to tell us based off your reads. You have good reads pretty often, but they aren't always 100%.
Also do you not think that it is worthwhile to know who sudgy (our IC) thinks is scummy and townie before we head into night?
Yes on sudgy, although why is he an IC?
I'd actually like a list of reads from everyone at this point, so they're available for review tomorrow post Arch flip and NK.
If it's the Gold Room thing, that's bunk. Gold room price dropped last night anyway, right?
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Worth what though? We aren't wasting any bankable time.
And who knows. Maybe he will have something worthwhile to say. Maybe he is a PR with results that we should know about. I have no idea. But I think we should at least wait until Friday because it costs us nothing.
Don't just assume he is scum and has nothing of worth to tell us based off your reads. You have good reads pretty often, but they aren't always 100%.
Also do you not think that it is worthwhile to know who sudgy (our IC) thinks is scummy and townie before we head into night?
Yes on sudgy, although why is he an IC?
I'd actually like a list of reads from everyone at this point, so they're available for review tomorrow post Arch flip and NK.
If it's the Gold Room thing, that's bunk. Gold room price dropped last night anyway, right?
No it did not. Robz already responded to you saying that gold prices automatically drop tonight, not last night.
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If it's the Gold Room thing, that's bunk. Gold room price dropped last night anyway, right?
are you being obstinate or just not paying attention...
Cost to enter a Gold Room
$5
$2, if Gold Key purchased by your faction
$2 after Night 3
Last night was night 3. We have had this discussion twice already.
So unless both jimmm and eevee are lying, sudgy is in fact an IC. DEAL WITH IT!
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and you still refuse to want to wait for Ozle? I don't get it? What is to gain from lynching right now, this moment? Nothing! Absolutely nothing. We won't lose bankable time. It isn't like Arch is going to weasel out of this. It is an extremely solid case. He is getting lynched. And even if Ozle is his scum buddy he isn't going to defend him. It would be suicide.
But what do we have to gain if we wait for a little bit? Maybe nothing, maybe something huge! At the very least Ozle might be crazy enough to try and defend Arch, and if he does we will lynch him and be closer to a win.
I feel like you are just playing crazy this game, trying to replicate your crazy town meta in hopes that I and others will think you are town. I hope that is the case. I hope you are scum, because right now (and the last few days) you haven't been what I would expect and hope to see from town ashersky.
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If it's the Gold Room thing, that's bunk. Gold room price dropped last night anyway, right?
are you being obstinate or just not paying attention...
Not paying attention.
Cost to enter a Gold Room
$5
$2, if Gold Key purchased by your faction
$2 after Night 3
Last night was night 3. We have had this discussion twice already.
So unless both jimmm and eevee are lying, sudgy is in fact an IC. DEAL WITH IT!
Well, there is a non-zero chance that Jimmmmm and Eevee are sudgy's partners.
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and you still refuse to want to wait for Ozle? I don't get it? What is to gain from lynching right now, this moment? Nothing! Absolutely nothing. We won't lose bankable time. It isn't like Arch is going to weasel out of this. It is an extremely solid case. He is getting lynched. And even if Ozle is his scum buddy he isn't going to defend him. It would be suicide.
But what do we have to gain if we wait for a little bit? Maybe nothing, maybe something huge! At the very least Ozle might be crazy enough to try and defend Arch, and if he does we will lynch him and be closer to a win.
I feel like you are just playing crazy this game, trying to replicate your crazy town meta in hopes that I and others will think you are town. I hope that is the case. I hope you are scum, because right now (and the last few days) you haven't been what I would expect and hope to see from town ashersky.
Wait for Ozle, don't wait for Ozle, what's the difference at this very moment?
Archetype is not at L-1. He's in no danger of being lynched, and yet you are freaking out over my "intent to hammer if he hits L-1" statement. Scared of losing another partner? I mean, he slipped and you are bussing hardcore, as you should. But don't act so indignant with me for wanting to lynch scum.
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Because all it would take is one more vote and you said you would hammer. I said, don't and you refused. I don't know if there will be anything compelling.
I can't even believe we are having this conversation. Don't hammer him. End of story.
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Does anyone else find ashersky's behavior today completely bizarre?
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You will start eating into your banked time (16 days) on Friday.
at what time will we start eating into our bankable time on friday?
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Because all it would take is one more vote and you said you would hammer. I said, don't and you refused. I don't know if there will be anything compelling.
I can't even believe we are having this conversation. Don't hammer him. End of story.
Don't you need to be towny to get to order people around? Why so afraid to lose Arch?
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So, Ash, if I'm reading you correctly, Arch is scum and Ozle and yuma are his partners, correct? Can you please reiterate your cases on these two. Please feel free to just quote previous cases if that works best.
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Lol ashersky, yuma is so clearly trying to weasel out of the archetype-lynch.. Its blatantly obvious!
I too am finding ashersky scummier and scummier.
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Because all it would take is one more vote and you said you would hammer. I said, don't and you refused. I don't know if there will be anything compelling.
I can't even believe we are having this conversation. Don't hammer him. End of story.
Don't you need to be towny to get to order people around? Why so afraid to lose Arch?
OMGULS
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I don't know what... pick something.... lollipops, suckers, ice cream, thumbs... something...
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So, Ash, if I'm reading you correctly, Arch is scum and Ozle and yuma are his partners, correct? Can you please reiterate your cases on these two. Please feel free to just quote previous cases if that works best.
Arch is scummy for the slip, and being off-Kooshie wagon.
Ozle I believe is scum for his behavior on D2 and D3, being off-Kooshie wagon and trying to gain towncred for stating intent to hammer.
Yuma is scummy for trying too hard to lead town this far into the game, making sure we lynched people who were on-Kooshie wagon two days in a row, and now trying to save Archetype.
I find it hard to believe I've just caught the whole team though, so at least one of those three is actually innocent.
Lol ashersky, yuma is so clearly trying to weasel out of the archetype-lynch.. Its blatantly obvious!
I too am finding ashersky scummier and scummier.
Eevee is ridiculous. He calls me out as scummy for NOT lynching myself, then says I'm unhelpful for voting myself, and then says I'm scummy again for calling out suspicious behavior.
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Because all it would take is one more vote and you said you would hammer. I said, don't and you refused. I don't know if there will be anything compelling.
I can't even believe we are having this conversation. Don't hammer him. End of story.
Don't you need to be towny to get to order people around? Why so afraid to lose Arch?
OMGULS
What does the L stand for? And what in that post is OMGUS?
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I don't know what... pick something.... lollipops, suckers, ice cream, thumbs... something...
Are you calling me a baby? Explain to me how that would not be a personal attack?
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I don't know what... pick something.... lollipops, suckers, ice cream, thumbs... something...
Lollipop ice cream, please.
Seriously, I haven't made a goofy/snarky comment, like, allllllllll game. It's been killing me.
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Lets chill! Maybe kill some scum, I don't think ozle is coming. Would be good for town if we avoided having another simultaneous night with the other game.
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Okay, I will prod.
Did you receive a response? It's been 24 hours. Replacement?
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I don't know what... pick something.... lollipops, suckers, ice cream, thumbs... something...
Are you calling me a baby? Explain to me how that would not be a personal attack?
sorry, it wasn't an attack, it was me being funny (I guess the funniness didn't translate very well). I was suggesting things that you could suck.
No offense intended!
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Lets chill! Maybe kill some scum, I don't think ozle is coming. Would be good for town if we avoided having another simultaneous night with the other game.
Why is it that good for town?
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and like I said before I am only trying to lead town because no one else seems like they want to step up to the plate.
But hey, do whatever you want.
PS: if you think I am arch's scum buddy, maybe you should look back at my interactions with him not just today where it was obvious he was scum... maybe look at day2 and day3 where I repeatedly lead the charge against him.
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Well, at least good for my mafia withdrawal symptoms.
Mostly just lets the players alive in both focus on one game at a time when the other is in night.
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and like I said before I am only trying to lead town because no one else seems like they want to step up to the plate.
But hey, do whatever you want.
PS: if you think I am arch's scum buddy, maybe you should look back at my interactions with him not just today where it was obvious he was scum... maybe look at day2 and day3 where I repeatedly lead the charge against him.
Up until the top of this page, I would have staunchly put you in the anti-Arch came. But you're purposefully slowing down his lynch for someone who 1) hasn't been online since Sunday and 2) hasn't responded to an official mod-prod in 24 hours. That is just way off.
I think we all think we have a very good chance of having caught scum. Why slow it down now. As you mention yourself, town's a bit quiet at this point. A scum lynch will help that.
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Alright, here's my reads:
Jimmmmm/raerae/Insomniac: Lurkers. They need to post more. The longer they stay like this, the more I'll get suspicious of them.
yuma: Fairly scummy, but with the whole Arch thing I'll wait to say my final verdict until he flips.
ashersky: Seeing what yuma said, partly scummy.
Eevee: Null.
Jorbles: Also a null. I haven't been noticing them that much recently.
Archetype: Scum.
Ozle: Not fresh in my mind, he's been gone for ages.
Sorry for not many complete scum/complete town reads (other than Arch). It's been harder for me to get in to this game than others (maybe because of how big it was).
I think we should wait to hammer until tomorrow. While it's probably annoying to spectators (I can imagine mail-mi or lekkit asking kooshie, "Is arch scum?"), there's nothing to lose from it.
PPE: We have absolutely nothing to lose if we hammer tomorrow instead of today.
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and like I said before I am only trying to lead town because no one else seems like they want to step up to the plate.
But hey, do whatever you want.
PS: if you think I am arch's scum buddy, maybe you should look back at my interactions with him not just today where it was obvious he was scum... maybe look at day2 and day3 where I repeatedly lead the charge against him.
Up until the top of this page, I would have staunchly put you in the anti-Arch came. But you're purposefully slowing down his lynch for someone who 1) hasn't been online since Sunday and 2) hasn't responded to an official mod-prod in 24 hours. That is just way off.
I think we all think we have a very good chance of having caught scum. Why slow it down now. As you mention yourself, town's a bit quiet at this point. A scum lynch will help that.
This is absolutely ridiculous. I AM STILL VOTING FOR HIM! I WANT HIM LYNCHED! I have never said don't lynch arch. I have just said to wait. That is all! You are trying to rush a lynch that could potentially hurt town. Can't you see that?
I ask you again, what do we gain from lynching arch over waiting for a little bit to see if Ozle comes in and has anything to say? What? You haven't answered this and until you do--and if it is a rational and worthwhile--I will refuse to take anything you have to say on this matter seriously.
Also I do not trust that you received no money last night. There is not way to validate that statement and I still think that you are not the person to be hammering arch. Someone else should do it and I think sudgy (our IC or do you still dispute that?) should coordinate it.
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Alright, here's my reads:
Jimmmmm/raerae/Insomniac: Lurkers. They need to post more. The longer they stay like this, the more I'll get suspicious of them.
Sudgy, I'm sick of this. What part of v/la or I don't have power is confusing to you? Was I inactive much of D2 and D3? Yes. Yes, I was. Did I post why? Yes. Yes, I did. Check out the winter thread if you don't believe the power thing. Somebody in this game knows my real name and can Google me to see the names and dates of the events I was on while I was v/la (please, if you do that, do not post it). I have been more active than you today yet you insist on calling me lurky. Enough is enough and it is becoming insulting. I let it go before because I figured you just missed it but this is the second time I've pointed it out now.
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and like I said before I am only trying to lead town because no one else seems like they want to step up to the plate.
But hey, do whatever you want.
PS: if you think I am arch's scum buddy, maybe you should look back at my interactions with him not just today where it was obvious he was scum... maybe look at day2 and day3 where I repeatedly lead the charge against him.
Up until the top of this page, I would have staunchly put you in the anti-Arch came. But you're purposefully slowing down his lynch for someone who 1) hasn't been online since Sunday and 2) hasn't responded to an official mod-prod in 24 hours. That is just way off.
I think we all think we have a very good chance of having caught scum. Why slow it down now. As you mention yourself, town's a bit quiet at this point. A scum lynch will help that.
This is absolutely ridiculous. I AM STILL VOTING FOR HIM! I WANT HIM LYNCHED! I have never said don't lynch arch. I have just said to wait. That is all! You are trying to rush a lynch that could potentially hurt town. Can't you see that?
I ask you again, what do we gain from lynching arch over waiting for a little bit to see if Ozle comes in and has anything to say? What? You haven't answered this and until you do--and if it is a rational and worthwhile--I will refuse to take anything you have to say on this matter seriously.
Also I do not trust that you received no money last night. There is not way to validate that statement and I still think that you are not the person to be hammering arch. Someone else should do it and I think sudgy (our IC or do you still dispute that?) should coordinate it.
Stalling is anti-town. What do you expect scum to say about caught scum? If Ozle is scum, he's not going to sweep in here and say "Oh man, you caught my partner." He's going to say very little, or just agree that he looks scummy and vote.
Why we need to stall I do not understand. The more we stall, the worse the game will get. It's Friday, and you want to wait until Saturday. I just don't get it--activity will go down, not up.
And why, all of a sudden, we need OZLE to weight in, I have no idea. Sudgy the IC? Fine. I get it.
I mean, imagine we caught scum, but someone goes "hey, you know what, before we hammer scum, let's wait for ashersky to get back in here and comment." I mean, that makes no sense. Neither does waiting for Ozle.
As for me getting cash or whatever, you can't even validate that by killing me. I have a lot of useful info to share with town, but everyone is against claiming of any sort. You know I'm all about claiming AS TOWN. Especially on D4. I mean, what can scum possibly NOT know about the Bank at this point? And if we had claimed some stuff earlier, maybe we wouldn't be in this position.
Really, if we didn't have Arch looking so terrible, I'd ask you to get me to L-1 so I could claim everything I know before you hammer me and hopefully that would help town more than this stalled out day is.
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Alright, here's my reads:
Jimmmmm/raerae/Insomniac: Lurkers. They need to post more. The longer they stay like this, the more I'll get suspicious of them.
Sudgy, I'm sick of this. What part of v/la or I don't have power is confusing to you? Was I inactive much of D2 and D3? Yes. Yes, I was. Did I post why? Yes. Yes, I did. Check out the winter thread if you don't believe the power thing. Somebody in this game knows my real name and can Google me to see the names and dates of the events I was on while I was v/la (please, if you do that, do not post it). I have been more active than you today yet you insist on calling me lurky. Enough is enough and it is becoming insulting. I let it go before because I figured you just missed it but this is the second time I've pointed it out now.
It's more lately, you still haven't said too much.
Ashersky: As we've said before, we will not lose a single thing by waiting until tomorrow. Now, looking at your post, I realized that since you live in Australia and you say it's Friday already you might have gotten confused because it's still Thursday where I live.
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Wait a minute, do we start losing our bankable time on Friday or after Friday? If it's on Friday, we need to lynch Arch.
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Ashersky: As we've said before, we will not lose a single thing by waiting until tomorrow. Now, looking at your post, I realized that since you live in Australia and you say it's Friday already you might have gotten confused because it's still Thursday where I live.
Friday evening here is Friday morning there. We'll be on the same day in 2 hours or so.
Wait a minute, do we start losing our bankable time on Friday or after Friday? If it's on Friday, we need to lynch Arch.
I think it's on Friday at some point. Yuma asked for clarification.
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If it's on Friday, and it's getting close anyway, Everyone, if they want, can vote for Arch. We don't need to wait anymore.
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You will start eating into your banked time (16 days) on Friday.
at what time will we start eating into our bankable time on friday?
Ash, sudgy, why not wait until Robz has answered this? You both know he's a night owl and will likely be in to answer soon.
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It's getting close to Friday anyway. Just a little less than one and a half hours.
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Vote: Archetype is obvious, and his silence isn't helping his case at all.
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My concern is that Ozle might now something from a role that he obtained...
I don't know what, but something. He, like you have said, has been gone and while he was gone there was a night phase that he may or may not have taken actions during.
Look, ozle having anything to say that is worthwhile is slim. I admit that. But there is a chance. A chance that he will have some sort of result that will help us. And there is a chance that he will be NK--small, yes, but still a chance, and lose that information if we go into night w/o giving him a chance to tell us.
I think that small of a chance is worth waiting for, but not to the point that we use up bankable time.
But I have already said this. Many times. You are a brickwall and I am a hurting head.
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It's getting close to Friday anyway. Just a little less than one and a half hours.
but ultimately yes, go ahead and let's lynch him and get this over with, my argument with ash is stupid and distracting from what we are ulimately trying to do because we are obviously failing at communicating.
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unofficial vote count
ashersky (1) -- Archetype
Archetype (5) -- yuma, sudgy, raerae, eevee, Jimmm
Not Voting (4) -- Ozle, Insomniac, ashersky, Jorbles
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unofficial vote count
ashersky (1) -- Archetype
Archetype (5) -- yuma, sudgy, raerae, eevee, Jimmm
Not Voting (4) -- Ozle, Insomniac, ashersky, Jorbles
He's at L-1, right? Sudgy, unvote. I'll vote and you hammer. That'll assuage yuma's hammer concerns.
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Vote: Archetype
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unofficial vote count
ashersky (1) -- Archetype
Archetype (5) -- yuma, sudgy, raerae, eevee, Jimmm
Not Voting (4) -- Ozle, Insomniac, ashersky, Jorbles
He's at L-1, right? Sudgy, unvote. I'll vote and you hammer. That'll assuage yuma's hammer concerns.
Yay! we are communicating! Thanks ash.
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lol
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psych... should have seen that coming!
FLIP! FLIP! FLIP!
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If Arch is Town he's screwed the rest of us over majorly.
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If Arch is Town he's screwed the rest of us over majorly.
No way he does that as town. Just don't see it.
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*cough* mail-mi *cough*
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Then again, if mail-mi or lekkit asked Kooshie if Arch was the mafia, they couldn't trust Kooshie because it would become some type of WIFOM...
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Vote Count 4.5
ashersky (1) -- ashersky
Archetype (6) -- yuma, sudgy, raerae, Eeevee, Jimm, Archetype
Not Voting (3) -- Ozle, Insomniac, Jorbles
You managed to achieve a lynch without wasting any bankable time. Marvelous! What's even more marvelous is that Archetype was a Scum-aligned Mountebank! That's two down, two to go, friends!
Your coin totals will be updated shortly.
NIGHT 4 START
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Coin totals have now been updated. Moves in 24 hours, please.
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In a hurry, so let's get down to it.
Ozle was modkilled for inactivity.
Yuma was killed.
Both were Town-aligned Coppersmiths.
Thread unlocked - Day 5 Start!
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In a hurry, so let's get down to it.
Ozle was modkilled for inactivity.
Yuma was killed.
Both were Town-aligned Coppersmiths.
Thread unlocked - Day 5 Start!
Wow. A high scum read killed by scum? Strange...
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It is 5v2. Mylo right?
Top suspects are now Eevee and raerae.
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I'd say if there is anything worth claiming, now's the time.
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Well finally.
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Well finally.
Are you scum who completely fooled me?
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Well finally.
Are you scum who completely fooled me?
Nope.
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Wait, forgot Jorbles. He's above raerae on my scumdar.
Also, being on wagon for Arch gets you less points than Kooshie. Dude got caught in a lie.
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Wait, forgot Jorbles. He's above raerae on my scumdar.
Also, being on wagon for Arch gets you less points than Kooshie. Dude got caught in a lie.
Well yeah, I'd totally vote for him if I was scum.
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It is 5v2. Mylo right?
Top suspects are now Eevee and raerae.
Unless scum have an extra kill, 5v2 isn't mylo.
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Ozle getting himself modkilled actually works in our favour I think. We can't mislynch him and we now have an odd number.
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Updated player list:
Living players:
Jimmmmm
raerae
ashersky
Insomniac
Eevee
Jorbles
sudgy
Dead scum:
sparky Archetype
Kooshie
Dead Townies:
yuma
liopoil
mcmcsalot
xeiron
Lekkit
Ozle
mail-mi
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Unless there is some other possible way for entering a Gold room two nights ago to be made cheaper for Townies, sudgy is an IC, since it's impossible for him, Eevee and me to all be scum. So from my point of view I'm looking for 2 scum in raerae, ash, Insom, Eevee and Jorbles. It has been said that Arch would not likely name his teammates as being cleared by his Oracle, but I'm definitely not ready to rule raerae out because of that. It would have been disastrous for them if raerae was scum and she was lynched, but I don't think she's really looked like being lynched so far.
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Unless there is some other possible way for entering a Gold room two nights ago to be made cheaper for Townies, sudgy is an IC, since it's impossible for him, Eevee and me to all be scum. So from my point of view I'm looking for 2 scum in raerae, ash, Insom, Eevee and Jorbles. It has been said that Arch would not likely name his teammates as being cleared by his Oracle, but I'm definitely not ready to rule raerae out because of that. It would have been disastrous for them if raerae was scum and she was lynched, but I don't think she's really looked like being lynched so far.
While it may be fair to rule out sudgy, you can't rule out the two who confirmed his claim. I mean, one could be scum buying cred or sudgy's partner.
I think sudgy is telling the truth. That leaves 2 scum in: Jimmmmm, raerae, Insom, Eevee, Jorbles.
I lean Eevee > Jorbles > Insom > raerae > Jimmmmm, but could flip the top two.
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It is 5v2. Mylo right?
Top suspects are now Eevee and raerae.
Unless scum have an extra kill, 5v2 isn't mylo.
Isn't Mylo where a mislynch puts you in Lylo? We are at 3v2 if we mislynch today.
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Why did scum kill Yuma? That answer must matter.
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It is 5v2. Mylo right?
Top suspects are now Eevee and raerae.
Unless scum have an extra kill, 5v2 isn't mylo.
Isn't Mylo where a mislynch puts you in Lylo? We are at 3v2 if we mislynch today.
I think mylo is "mislynch and lose". It's like lylo except you can afford to no-lynch.
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While it may be fair to rule out sudgy, you can't rule out the two who confirmed his claim. I mean, one could be scum buying cred or sudgy's partner.
No of course you can't rule out Eevee or me based on that. If Eevee or I were scum we would know sudgy was Town and therefore telling the truth about the Gold key.
What do you mean by sudgy's partner though? If sudgy is scum, then there is at least one Townie backing up his claim. So unless you can come up with some other way that the cost of entering a Gold room would have decreased for Townies, sudgy must be Town.
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While it may be fair to rule out sudgy, you can't rule out the two who confirmed his claim. I mean, one could be scum buying cred or sudgy's partner.
No of course you can't rule out Eevee or me based on that. If Eevee or I were scum we would know sudgy was Town and therefore telling the truth about the Gold key.
What do you mean by sudgy's partner though? If sudgy is scum, then there is at least one Townie backing up his claim. So unless you can come up with some other way that the cost of entering a Gold room would have decreased for Townies, sudgy must be Town.
I guess you are right. Other town could have bought the Gold Key. But they'd just counter claim sudgy.
I think it's safest for us to treat sudgy as the IC today. Why scum didn't kill him last night I don't know. I imagine they'll get him tonight, no matter who we lynch.
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I agree sudgy is an IC for all intents and purposes today.
Ashersky, what's the case on me?
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I agree sudgy is an IC for all intents and purposes today.
Ashersky, what's the case on me?
No one has made a case on you. That's super scummy at this point. You've been less active in this game than others.
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Hmm, I don't think either of those statements are true, but having a perfect lynching record has meant there has been no basis on making cases against me really. Ozle did suspect me quite heavily, maybe you did earlier too? I'm not sure.
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Jimm is still a townread for me. So, for me, two scum in ashersky, Jorbles and raerae.
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Why am I a Townread?
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Why am I a Townread?
I dont think you would have played scum the way you did early in the game is the gist of it. What you did in RMM7 is what I would expect from you if you were scum, this felt like more like a busy/uninterested townie. Not bulletproof, but I have no trouble believing any of raerae, ashersky or Jorbles could be scum. Dont you remember how hard I fought against your lynch earlier?
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Wagons. This bears analyzing.
Vote Count 1.11
mail-mi (1) -- mcmcsalot
liopoil (1) -- yuma
raerae (1) -- Jimm
Kooshie (9) -- liopoil, Eevee, Jorbles, sudgy, Lekkit, mail-mi, ashersky, raerae, xeiron
sudgy (1) -- Insomniac
Eevee (1) -- Ozle
Not Voting (2) -- sparky5856, Kooshie
Vote Count 2.18
Ozle (2) -- ashersky, Eevee
mail-mi (8) -- Jimm, liopoil, Lekkit, Archetype, raerae, yuma, Ozle, mail-mi
Insomniac (2) -- Jorbles, sudgy
Jimm (1) -- mcmcsalot
mcmcsalot (1) -- Insomniac
Vote Count 3.9
Archetype (2) -- Lekkit, mcmcsalot
Lekkit (7) -- Archetype, raerae, Jimm, sudgy, Jorbles, yuma, ashersky
ashersky (1) -- Insomniac
mcmcsalot (1) -- Eevee
Not Voting (1) -- Ozle
Vote Count 4.5
ashersky (1) -- ashersky
Archetype (6) -- yuma, sudgy, raerae, Eeevee, Jimm, Archetype
Not Voting (3) -- Ozle, Insomniac, Jorbles
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Why am I a Townread?
I dont think you would have played scum the way you did early in the game is the gist of it. What you did in RMM7 is what I would expect from you if you were scum, this felt like more like a busy/uninterested townie. Not bulletproof, but I have no trouble believing any of raerae, ashersky or Jorbles could be scum. Dont you remember how hard I fought against your lynch earlier?
Yeah, I remembered the reason just after I posted, but I still wanted to hear it from you.
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I really think raerae/Jorbles look bad if you look at wagons. I like those two for lynching today.
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I really think raerae/Jorbles look bad if you look at wagons. I like those two for lynching today.
Why's that? Weren't you one of the people going on about lynching off the Kooshie wagon?
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Wait, Insomniac is alive?
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ashersky, Jorbles, raerae, Jimmm, Insomniac and Eevee, 6 players?
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And sudgy.
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Nevermind, I got confused. Shouldnt try to do multiple things at once, but have trouble staying out of this thread.
Add Ins to the list of my suspects.
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I really think raerae/Jorbles look bad if you look at wagons. I like those two for lynching today.
Why's that? Weren't you one of the people going on about lynching off the Kooshie wagon?
Raerae is late on Kooshie, on both town, and joined up on Arch post-slip. Looks worse out of the two.
Jorbles is bussing early on Kooshie, which is bold, off mail-mi which is smart, on Lekkit, and then off Arch. If you wanted me to describe how I think smartscumJorbles votes in a game, this is it. (I've been scum partners with him in the past.)
Off Kooshie is you and Insom. Off both scum is Insom. Would you prefer Insom?
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I might prefer ashersky tbh..
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I might prefer ashersky tbh..
Going out of his way to see what suspicion might stick to cause a mislynch, is what this feels like. Also he seriously has been avoiding attention (no offering to be lynched!), and the fight with yuma was just idiotic, much like our fight in Mafia Noir... where ashersky was scum.
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I might prefer ashersky tbh..
Going out of his way to see what suspicion might stick to cause a mislynch, is what this feels like. Also he seriously has been avoiding attention (no offering to be lynched!), and the fight with yuma was just idiotic, much like our fight in Mafia Noir... where ashersky was scum.
If you think lynching me (as town) is the best play for town, I could be convinced.
It puts you at lylo tomorrow with the following alive (assuming they kill IC sudgy):
Jimmmmm, Eevee, raerae, Jorbles, Insomniac
So do you really think I'm more likely to be scum than the four that survive with you?
(Of course, if you are scum, your answer doesn't really help.)
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I might prefer ashersky tbh..
Going out of his way to see what suspicion might stick to cause a mislynch, is what this feels like. Also he seriously has been avoiding attention (no offering to be lynched!), and the fight with yuma was just idiotic, much like our fight in Mafia Noir... where ashersky was scum.
I've been the ONLY person to suspect Jorbles this entire game, going back to D1. So that isn't random at all. Raerae not so much, and she was right about mcmc. But her voting patterns aren't helping her out.
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First you tried to suspect me, until you saw it wouldnt work.
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Actually, vote: ashersky
At least one scum, if not both, will push this through.
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First you tried to suspect me, until you saw it wouldnt work.
Because you're too awesome as scum to get caught?
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First you tried to suspect me, until you saw it wouldnt work.
Because you're too awesome as scum to get caught?
Because I have been in every single scum lynch this far, was the second on Kooshie and didn't participate on any of the town lynched. Just, I'm not the most likely to be scum here. I'm guessing you forgot that and dropped your suspicion the minute you realized there were earlier targets.
Your play with the self vote is not very pro-town for this situation either.
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First you tried to suspect me, until you saw it wouldnt work.
Because you're too awesome as scum to get caught?
Because I have been in every single scum lynch this far, was the second on Kooshie and didn't participate on any of the town lynched. Just, I'm not the most likely to be scum here. I'm guessing you forgot that and dropped your suspicion the minute you realized there were earlier targets.
Your play with the self vote is not very pro-town for this situation either.
You working to get me mislynched isn't very pro-town either. So I guess we're even.
Look, if you are town and TRULY believe I'm scum this game, after 4 days worth of posts, vote for me. But if you are town and aren't sure, don't vote for me, and know that to get this mislynch through, scum will have to partake. Then you'll know where to look in lylo. It's a gambit, but it's a town gambit. This game is winnable guys.
Go look at the wagons I collected for us. It's useful information. We don't want to get caught up in what we are saying just today. If yuma were here, he'd agree. You've got to look at everything in context. Ozle's moddeath helps us because we can just rule out his interactions.
Who was yuma suspecting before Arch gave himself away? Why in the world would you kill a possible mislynch? I'd be suspecting him hardcore today if he survived. But he didn't, which is just odd. So who's likely to fear yuma? (Answer: Eevee)
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Why would I fear anyone? Look at my wagon history, it's like the most pro-town thing ever (yes, I'm proud).
I'm town who is unsure but leaning more and more towards thinking you are mafia. Well, two of you, Jorbles, raerae and Ins. I won't vote before we've heard what everyone thinks and before I've looked at the wagons more. I encourage people to make cases on others / "why I'm town" cases on themselves (or others, why not).
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Jorbles: I've had a scum read on him since D1. His voting is smart scum. Jorbles is fantastically smart scum. I've been his partner before, he's playing as I would expect him to as my scum partner. We've also modded together. Yes, this is a meta case + voting analysis.
raerae: Off the radar, although with real VLA. Voting history is more of the scummy ilk. Has made some good points on a few folks, but hasn't been commenting on every player. I think selectivity in reads/opinions can be a scum trait.
Insom: Dude's been purposefully missing, I think. He likes to be upset when he does post that when he posts no one listens. Very lurky, even for a declared "final game." On zero lynch wagons is super safe scum play.
Eevee: Scares me with his perfect voting record, and for being rarely suspected. Is misreading me, which is scummy of Eevee, who reads me very well. I'd put Eevee in the top three or so players who can read me well on f.ds. So when he's wrong about me, I assume it's on purpose because he's scum. I will note he's not playing like WW Major Arcana Eevee who I won MXVII with.
Jimmmmm: Strong town read from back when he was going to get lynched. Hasn't done anything to change that, although his D4-D5 posts have been similar to late RMM7 posting, when he was basically going to win.
sudgy/ash: town.
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Going out of his way to see what suspicion might stick to cause a mislynch, is what this feels like.
I had the same thought.
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ash, if you're Town, and the game is winnable by lynching you today, then you need to tell us exactly who the remaining scum are.
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ash, if you're Town, and the game is winnable by lynching you today, then you need to tell us exactly who the remaining scum are.
I've just listed who I think the scummiest are. What else can I say?
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Guilting me into thinking he is town isn't helping ashesky's case.
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Guilting me into thinking he is town isn't helping ashesky's case.
Mislynch me, ruin your perfect record this game.
Is this really scum!ash?
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ash, if you're Town, and the game is winnable by lynching you today, then you need to tell us exactly who the remaining scum are.
I've just listed who I think the scummiest are. What else can I say?
Okay, let's have a look.
Jorbles: I've had a scum read on him since D1. His voting is smart scum. Jorbles is fantastically smart scum. I've been his partner before, he's playing as I would expect him to as my scum partner. We've also modded together. Yes, this is a meta case + voting analysis.
tldr: smart scum
raerae: Off the radar, although with real VLA. Voting history is more of the scummy ilk. Has made some good points on a few folks, but hasn't been commenting on every player. I think selectivity in reads/opinions can be a scum trait.
tldr: scummy voting, could be scum
Insom: Dude's been purposefully missing, I think. He likes to be upset when he does post that when he posts no one listens. Very lurky, even for a declared "final game." On zero lynch wagons is super safe scum play.
tldr: safe scum
Eevee: Scares me with his perfect voting record, and for being rarely suspected. Is misreading me, which is scummy of Eevee, who reads me very well. I'd put Eevee in the top three or so players who can read me well on f.ds. So when he's wrong about me, I assume it's on purpose because he's scum. I will note he's not playing like WW Major Arcana Eevee who I won MXVII with.
tldr: wrong, therefore scum
Jimmmmm: Strong town read from back when he was going to get lynched. Hasn't done anything to change that, although his D4-D5 posts have been similar to late RMM7 posting, when he was basically going to win.
tldr: could be scum
So if you're Town we're looking for two scum in five people and you've given us smart scum, could be scum, safe scum, wrong scum and could be scum. So basically you have no idea. In what universe does lynching a Townie leaving us with these five people at lylo give us a good chance of winning this game?
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Ask Eevee. His idea to lynch me.
In what world does it make sense for scum!ash to suggest this?
(Of course I don't know who scum is. I only suspect, like any townie. Who helps lynch me will help figure it out.)
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Ask Eevee. His idea to lynch me.
In what world does it make sense for scum!ash to suggest this?
(Of course I don't know who scum is. I only suspect, like any townie. Who helps lynch me will help figure it out.)
The only scenario that makes any sense at the moment is that you're trying too hard to be Towny, self-sacrificial ashersky. This is not the situation for a Townie to be falling on his sword. And saying "Ask Eevee" is a ludicrous defense. If Eevee is Town, then suggesting lynching you is something that he believes has a relatively good chance of helping Town. If you're Town, then suggesting lynching yourself is something that you know will be bad for Town. So unless you can give a very good reason why it would be good for Town, you seem to be trying too hard.
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I think ashersky pointed out that yuma was suspecting Eevee yesterday, but the way I remember it was yuma suspecting ashersky (and myself).
Also ashersky's accusation gives me way too much credit. I'm not some master scum player.
I do kinda get the feeling that ashersky is taking the shotgun blast approach to finding a mislynch here. At least it feels that way. Declaring all 5 players who aren't himself or IC to be prob!scum isn't helpful and just confuses things. @ash, If you are town this isn't a good way to go about doing things. If you're scum well keep it up I guess.
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I would really like for everyone to explain why they are a bad lynch actually. No "because I'm town"'s, but rational arguments explaining why your actions make more sense for town / why someone else's actions make more sense for scum.
My answer:
I was the second to join the Kooshie wagon liopoil created, my push had a significant impact on it happening. Sparky/archetype was my 2nd biggest suspect already day 1 and I never dropped that suspicion. I didn't participate in the town lynches (and additionally Jimmm, if I'm right about you I fought very hard to save you too).
I havent really done anything scummy in my opinion, if there is something I'd be glad to defend myself.
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Ash's pasta tests, flip-flopping reads, and self-vote are absolutely infuriating. For example, he finds Eevee's perfect voting suspicious and my 50% correct voting record scummy. So, basically, if you voted this game, you are scummy. Also interesting, sudgy is obviously IC, that is clear and was clear yesterday but Ash was the only one refusing to believe it. Suddenly, he and sudgy are the only two clear townies left. He was trying to cook something up with that yesterday and nobody was coming to dinner so he let it drop, same thing he's doing today.
His self-vote is just so frustrating if he's town but I don't think that's the case. He pushed that hard in the beginning until we all believed he was just normal town ash and then let off. Eevee pointed this out so now he's back at it. I mean, scum wouldn't self-vote this late in the game, right? That would just be suicide, right?
So the yuma kill makes sense instead of a sudgy kill. Yuma was the townleader, is a bit of bulldog, and suspected Ash. Scum simply couldn't afford to leave that big of a threat alive this late in the game.
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In response to Eevee:
I have not played a great game. Fully admit that and my only excuse is my real life has been real busy and I haven't been able to devote as much time as I should have to this game. I helped kill Kooshie and Arch. Regarding Arch, however, I don't think a lot of towncred can be gained by anybody not previously suspecting Arch on that lynch since the slip was less of a slip and more of a spill. I stuck my neck out for Jimmmmm D2 and still hold to that read. Yuma roleblocked me and there was still a kill. I know that doesn't and shouldn't absolve me of suspicion but I still think it hold some water.
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Thank you raerae. Btw, isn't it sort of interesting people who suspected Jimm have been killed off and it's just his heaviest (?) supporters left?
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Alright, I'm going to say this now, I wasn't saying it yet because I thought it would make scum want to NK me (but I think nothing else can make me much more NK-able than I am now). I have access to the Jailed (lynched) Players QT. I've been trying to send them messages (saying things they said (and then lekkit just said that I read his mind...)), but they haven't seen anything. Now, the most interesting thing that I've seen in there is that Archetype said that the bus was amazing. Now, he's scum, so he might be trying to make us look on wagon, so I'll look off wagon (after he said that I was even more suspicious of yuma but then suddenly yuma died).
Off wagon (excluding town): ash, Insom, Jorbles
Jorbles: I haven't noticed him much this game. Either is scum blending in really well, or just a townie, which I'm leaning towards.
Insom: I've had a scumread on him for almost the whole game (for his scummy lurking (I have two different classifications of lurking, one is scummy the other isn't)).
Ash: I know I would never play like that. Now, of course, I'm not him, but I think he's trying to be so crazy that we think he can't possibly be scum. Also, there is his tunneling of Jorbles.
I think the scummiest of the three is Vote: ashersky.
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Thank you raerae. Btw, isn't it sort of interesting people who suspected Jimm have been killed off and it's just his heaviest (?) supporters left?
Makes me a bit uncomfortable to be honest...
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Answering Eevee's post, sorry about the novel:
Okay first off, why am I a bad lynch? I was early on the Kooshie wagon, not perhaps as early as Eevee, but only a few posts after him if I recall correctly. I don't think this should really absolve me, I wasn't pursuing it that hard, I just thought it was a better case than anything else that had been presented that day.
Day 2 I was a little all over the place, but who wasn't that day was so long. I divided my suspicions between Jimmmm, Insomniac and sudgy. I defended sparky, yuma and Ozle. I admit defending sparky looks bad, but I still think sparky's d1 play looked towny, even though I've been proved wrong. I expressed willingness to lynch him or Lekkit for lurkiness until they both started being (more) active.
Day 3 I wanted to lynch Archetype most of the day. Though I also suspected yuma and Jimmm. My votes make it pretty clear I was trying to lynch Archetype. I still don't think Jimmmm is cleared btw. ashersky's tunneling on me really starts this day. His case is basically that I seem towny to him so therefore I must be scum. This case is getting more and more annoying because everything I do looks scummy to him. If I do something towny he thinks it's me just doing it to score townpoints and therefore it's scummy, if I do something scummy it's me making a mistake and just scummy. Nothing I can do will make him read me anything but scummy. Anyhow eventually I get frustrated that no one seems to want to lynch Archetype and go with the consensus vote, Lekkit. I thought Lekkit was just lurky in general and so wasn't a terrible lynch we were wrong, but I didn't want the day to drag on like d2 had.
Day 4 I am still suspecting Archetype and yuma. I've started looking harder at yuma, but then Archetype makes his slip and we all want to vote for him. I don't think we can learn much from day 4 since we were all clearly ready to vote for Archetype.
Okay so why am I bad lynch? If you think I was busing then I guess I'm a good lynch, but that would mean I was busing two of my team mates one of them for multiple days. That's a lot of working against my team mates if you think I'm scum. I might bus sometimes as scum, but this isn't the case here.
Who's a good lynch?
Not eevee who I think is probably the towniest non-IC. I should probably look more closely at him since I have this read on him, but I can't remember why. Will do that next.
ashersky's erratic play is looking more and more like an affectation to make people think he's just playing too weirdly to be scum. He's been tunneling on me a lot of the game, which seems totally weird to me and just adds to this. I've had a horrible time reading him this game, but that might be because he's trying to make himself really hard to read deliberately. So he'd be one of my top choices to lynch. The only problem I have with this is if he's scum then who fits as a possible partner for him? Something we need to look into no matter who we lynch.
Insomniac could be lurking as scum, but he has read as genuinely frustrated in the game. I think he's probably town. He wouldn't be my first choice to lynch anyways.
raerae has been V/LA for much of the game which makes her hard for me to read. Her voting patterns don't look as scummy to me as some other players. She wouldn't be my first choice, but is a possible scum player.
Jimmmm still feels scummy to me, but this could be residual from previously suspecting him. His voting has been scummy in a way similar to Archetypes. I could see him as scum.
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Thank you raerae. Btw, isn't it sort of interesting people who suspected Jimm have been killed off and it's just his heaviest (?) supporters left?
Makes me a bit uncomfortable to be honest...
I've suspected Jimmmm on and off most of the game. I still suspect him, and which Jimmmm detractors have been killed off and when?
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Well, most of the people were suspecting Jimm at one point or another, as he was VERY close to being lynched. This game is so darn large, going to back to check the facts is a very daunting task. That's actually why I asked for these "cases on ourselves", just helps the other players to remember. I think Jorbles "defended" himself well.
Can someone explain why Insomniac's play feels towny? I dont think it's actively scummy, but have trouble comprehending what makes it seem towny, especially considering we are in a situation where noreads are pretty damn scummy due to poe.
My top suspects now are ashersky, Insomniac and raerae.
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@sudgy: What are the dead players saying now that they know you can hear them? Are there any inconsistencies they've noticed?
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@Eevee: You shouldn't lynch me because I'm town ;)
@Jorbles: Lekkit actually gave me a bit of the case on ashersky, and mail-mi agrees. Lekkit isn't surprised that I can hear them. The only inconsistencies that they noticed was Kooshie noticing the inconsistency in the food...
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Also, @Lekkit: I didn't say hi to everyone because the thread was locked at that time. I was thinking of instead saying that people who have access to the QTs shouldn't claim it.
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The only scenario that makes any sense at the moment is that you're trying too hard to be Towny, self-sacrificial ashersky. This is not the situation for a Townie to be falling on his sword. And saying "Ask Eevee" is a ludicrous defense. If Eevee is Town, then suggesting lynching you is something that he believes has a relatively good chance of helping Town. If you're Town, then suggesting lynching yourself is something that you know will be bad for Town. So unless you can give a very good reason why it would be good for Town, you seem to be trying too hard.
Again, if you say so. You are wrong, and you've seen others be wrong about me in the same ways as a fellow player and a mod. Think about it.
Also, reading your bolded sentence, you seem to be concurring with the idea that lynching town today is a good idea. So you are being extremely hypocritical to call me out for it when you yourself say "suggesting lynching you is something that he believes has a relative good chance of helping Town" instead of "...he believes has a relatively good chance of hitting scum."
Would you like me to try less hard to help town? That's backwards to me.
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Also ashersky's accusation gives me way too much credit. I'm not some master scum player.
False. Patently false. The only reason you (we) lost LOLCats was the Bastard nature of the game.
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I mean, scum wouldn't self-vote this late in the game, right? That would just be suicide, right?
If I'm scum, who is my remaining partner? And wouldn't he/she be furious with me?
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I dont see much downside for scum to self-vote here. I mean town should be really freaking worried they'll die, much harder for scum to get quicklynched.
Ashersky, I think you dodged Jimm's question. You are willing to die for this town, we get it. However, everything anyone else does is scummy to you, what information would we get from your flip?
Can anyone think of any scum pairs other than sudgy-X we can eliminate due to earlier days?
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I dont see much downside for scum to self-vote here. I mean town should be really freaking worried they'll die, much harder for scum to get quicklynched.
Ashersky, I think you dodged Jimm's question. You are willing to die for this town, we get it. However, everything anyone else does is scummy to you, what information would we get from your flip?
Can anyone think of any scum pairs other than sudgy-X we can eliminate due to earlier days?
You say this, and yet for two straight days you have called me scummy for not offering myself up to be lynched. Which is it?
Well, unless I'm faking a fight with all of you, ashersky-X doesn't work.
Why does my flip help? When you know I'm town, it'll change your reads on everyone else. Like, if you think X, Y, and ash are scummy, now you are at a 50% chance with your reads. You can also see my interactions with people for what they are--honest, pro-town attempts to win this game.
It's not like I'm dead set on lynching myself. I'm just being absolutely clear that I will if that's what the town demands as the price for proving my innocence.
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I still dont see any concrete information we would get from your flip. None! I would be able to deduct you from my suspect pool, but that holds true for any other lynch.
I have hard time believing you could actually want to be the lynch as town, so your self-vote reads insincere to me. Scum is insincere. I don't claim to KNOW you are scum, I was pretty darn sure in helsinki mafia and you were town. I dont think your actions today are helping us find the real scum if you are town, though.
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I still dont see any concrete information we would get from your flip. None! I would be able to deduct you from my suspect pool, but that holds true for any other lynch.
I have hard time believing you could actually want to be the lynch as town, so your self-vote reads insincere to me. Scum is insincere. I don't claim to KNOW you are scum, I was pretty darn sure in helsinki mafia and you were town. I dont think your actions today are helping us find the real scum if you are town, though.
Lurkers aren't helping (Insom?). I'd lean toward lynching there.
I think scum may have killed yuma to leave only one clear mislynch to work toward today (me).
Separately, I really don't think we should be going for the information lynch today. It's too late in the game for that. We really should be trying to lynch mafia. Lynching me for information is not optimal.
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I still dont see any concrete information we would get from your flip. None! I would be able to deduct you from my suspect pool, but that holds true for any other lynch.
I have hard time believing you could actually want to be the lynch as town, so your self-vote reads insincere to me. Scum is insincere. I don't claim to KNOW you are scum, I was pretty darn sure in helsinki mafia and you were town. I dont think your actions today are helping us find the real scum if you are town, though.
What information could we get from lynching anyone at this point? The only info I can think we could get from lynching anyone would be if we lynched Jimmmm because if he was scum we could see who didn't hammer him when he was at L-1 before. That's not enough info for me to lynch someone. I can't think of any other concrete info we'd get from a lynch that favours lynching one player over another.
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Jorbles, I know. And still ashersky is voting for himself..
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It is sad how little we have to go on in terms of interactions here. Makes this very hard.
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Jorbles, I know. And still ashersky is voting for himself..
Should I unvote?
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Jorbles, I know. And still ashersky is voting for himself..
Should I unvote?
You should let me dictate where your vote lies for the rest of the game. I still encourage you to make contributions and scumhunt as hard as possible, just leave the actual deciding to me.
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I still dont see any concrete information we would get from your flip. None! I would be able to deduct you from my suspect pool, but that holds true for any other lynch.
I have hard time believing you could actually want to be the lynch as town, so your self-vote reads insincere to me. Scum is insincere. I don't claim to KNOW you are scum, I was pretty darn sure in helsinki mafia and you were town. I dont think your actions today are helping us find the real scum if you are town, though.
Lurkers aren't helping (Insom?). I'd lean toward lynching there.
I think scum may have killed yuma to leave only one clear mislynch to work toward today (me).
Separately, I really don't think we should be going for the information lynch today. It's too late in the game for that. We really should be trying to lynch mafia. Lynching me for information is not optimal.
Yeah, because scum LOVE to make it more likely they'll get lynched.
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The only scenario that makes any sense at the moment is that you're trying too hard to be Towny, self-sacrificial ashersky. This is not the situation for a Townie to be falling on his sword. And saying "Ask Eevee" is a ludicrous defense. If Eevee is Town, then suggesting lynching you is something that he believes has a relatively good chance of helping Town. If you're Town, then suggesting lynching yourself is something that you know will be bad for Town. So unless you can give a very good reason why it would be good for Town, you seem to be trying too hard.
Again, if you say so. You are wrong, and you've seen others be wrong about me in the same ways as a fellow player and a mod. Think about it.
Also, reading your bolded sentence, you seem to be concurring with the idea that lynching town today is a good idea. So you are being extremely hypocritical to call me out for it when you yourself say "suggesting lynching you is something that he believes has a relative good chance of helping Town" instead of "...he believes has a relatively good chance of hitting scum."
Would you like me to try less hard to help town? That's backwards to me.
What the heck? What am I wrong about? What's the distinction between hitting scum and helping Town? It's plausible that in voting for you Eevee is trying to hit scum and therefore help Town. If you are Town, then you are voting for a confirmed (to you) Townie instead of trying to save said Townie, and that is bad play.
Read the sentence after the bolded sentence. "If you're Town, then suggesting lynching yourself is something that you know will be bad for Town." It's impossible for anyone reading my post critically to conclude that I think we should lynch a Townie today. If you're Town, I would like you get your vote off yourself and try to lynch scum. Anything less than that is extremely unhelpful.
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The only scenario that makes any sense at the moment is that you're trying too hard to be Towny, self-sacrificial ashersky. This is not the situation for a Townie to be falling on his sword. And saying "Ask Eevee" is a ludicrous defense. If Eevee is Town, then suggesting lynching you is something that he believes has a relatively good chance of helping Town. If you're Town, then suggesting lynching yourself is something that you know will be bad for Town. So unless you can give a very good reason why it would be good for Town, you seem to be trying too hard.
Again, if you say so. You are wrong, and you've seen others be wrong about me in the same ways as a fellow player and a mod. Think about it.
Also, reading your bolded sentence, you seem to be concurring with the idea that lynching town today is a good idea. So you are being extremely hypocritical to call me out for it when you yourself say "suggesting lynching you is something that he believes has a relative good chance of helping Town" instead of "...he believes has a relatively good chance of hitting scum."
Would you like me to try less hard to help town? That's backwards to me.
What the heck? What am I wrong about? What's the distinction between hitting scum and helping Town? It's plausible that in voting for you Eevee is trying to hit scum and therefore help Town. If you are Town, then you are voting for a confirmed (to you) Townie instead of trying to save said Townie, and that is bad play.
Read the sentence after the bolded sentence. "If you're Town, then suggesting lynching yourself is something that you know will be bad for Town." It's impossible for anyone reading my post critically to conclude that I think we should lynch a Townie today. If you're Town, I would like you get your vote off yourself and try to lynch scum. Anything less than that is extremely unhelpful.
I don't think plausible is the word you are looking for. Try obvious. :)
.. other than that, +1 obviously. I dont think ashersky disagrees either, that's why his behaviour is scummy in my opinion. Just seems so clear-cut to me.
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Unless you're scum of course, in which case you're trying to help scum.
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Read the sentence after the bolded sentence. "If you're Town, then suggesting lynching yourself is something that you know will be bad for Town." It's impossible for anyone reading my post critically to conclude that I think we should lynch a Townie today. If you're Town, I would like you get your vote off yourself and try to lynch scum. Anything less than that is extremely unhelpful.
No one else is even trying to find scum. They're just like "oh look, ash is scummy again." I'm the one looking for wagon analysis. I'm the one asking questions about what we should be looking at (i.e., why kill yuma?). I'm the only one scum hunting. Everyone else is ash hunting.
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And yet you're voting for yourself and being extremely scummy.
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Remind me, why are you voting for yourself?
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Remind me, why are you voting for yourself?
Eevee said I was scummy if I didn't.
Eevee also said he wants to control my vote.
Why does no one find Eevee scummy?
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And yet you're voting for yourself and being extremely scummy.
Extremely scummy is relative. I'm no different than me in any other game. See MnM and Ozle II for examples.
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Right, so you admit that you're doing it for Towncred.
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And yet you're voting for yourself and being extremely scummy.
Extremely scummy is relative. I'm no different than me in any other game. See MnM and Ozle II for examples.
Okay. Well don't complain about the times you're mislynched then. If you're Town and you get lynched today, you've very much brought it upon yourself.
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I think we forgot this, but yuma claimed to roleblock raerae at the start of D4. We can assume truth there now.
I don't think that clears raerae, since there's more than one scum, but it needs reminded.
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And yet you're voting for yourself and being extremely scummy.
Extremely scummy is relative. I'm no different than me in any other game. See MnM and Ozle II for examples.
Okay. Well don't complain about the times you're mislynched then. If you're Town and you get lynched today, you've very much brought it upon yourself.
Very much? No. 1/5, I guess, if my vote remains on me. But it'll be others who lynch me.
Look, my style of playing town may not match yours, or yuma's, or whoever. But it's a town style, and its valid. You (this is the royal you, so basically everyone) need to separate your "I actually don't like ashersky the person" from your "ashersky is playing this game in a way I don't like" and think about this from the game perspective. You all "know" me insofar as these games go. I play town differently, but I definitely play town to win. We may get there different ways, but hey, in games where the rest of town have gone against my style/suggestions, town have lost.
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Very much? No. 1/5, I guess, if my vote remains on me. But it'll be others who lynch me.
Look, my style of playing town may not match yours, or yuma's, or whoever. But it's a town style, and its valid. You (this is the royal you, so basically everyone) need to separate your "I actually don't like ashersky the person" from your "ashersky is playing this game in a way I don't like" and think about this from the game perspective. You all "know" me insofar as these games go. I play town differently, but I definitely play town to win. We may get there different ways, but hey, in games where the rest of town have gone against my style/suggestions, town have lost.
tldr, quit trying to blame me for when you mislynch town ash, because you know deep down in your hearts that I am town.
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Oh, and can the real Oracle user please claim now? Unless scum really bought it to keep it out of our hands.
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Very much? No. 1/5, I guess, if my vote remains on me. But it'll be others who lynch me.
Look, my style of playing town may not match yours, or yuma's, or whoever. But it's a town style, and its valid. You (this is the royal you, so basically everyone) need to separate your "I actually don't like ashersky the person" from your "ashersky is playing this game in a way I don't like" and think about this from the game perspective. You all "know" me insofar as these games go. I play town differently, but I definitely play town to win. We may get there different ways, but hey, in games where the rest of town have gone against my style/suggestions, town have lost.
tldr, quit trying to blame me for when you mislynch town ash, because you know deep down in your hearts that I am town.
I really really dont. Admittedly eciding to do weird stuff "because that's who town ash is" is not a defense I'm finding convincing.
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And yet you're voting for yourself and being extremely scummy.
Extremely scummy is relative. I'm no different than me in any other game. See MnM and Ozle II for examples.
Okay. Well don't complain about the times you're mislynched then. If you're Town and you get lynched today, you've very much brought it upon yourself.
Very much? No. 1/5, I guess, if my vote remains on me. But it'll be others who lynch me.
Look, my style of playing town may not match yours, or yuma's, or whoever. But it's a town style, and its valid. You (this is the royal you, so basically everyone) need to separate your "I actually don't like ashersky the person" from your "ashersky is playing this game in a way I don't like" and think about this from the game perspective. You all "know" me insofar as these games go. I play town differently, but I definitely play town to win. We may get there different ways, but hey, in games where the rest of town have gone against my style/suggestions, town have lost.
I have no problem with ash the person. I have a problem with someone who's claiming to be on my team working against my win condition.
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Let's face it, mislynching today would be pretty disastrous for Town. We'd have to survive two lylos and will have an average of 2/5 * 1/3 = 2/15 chance of winning. But lynching scum today would not be that bad for scum, who would still have an average of 4/5 * 2/3 = 8/15 chance of winning. And scum knows if we're doing better or worse than average since they know if we're close to lynching one of them. So I think it's much more likely that scum would be willing to self-sacrifice for their team than Town.
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Ash, I'm sad if you think I have a problem with you as a person, as that's absolutely not true. You are great! I know we have some differing opinions regarding the game of mafia, but I do love playing these games with you. You definitely make them more interesting!
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Let's face it, mislynching today would be pretty disastrous for Town. We'd have to survive two lylos and will have an average of 2/5 * 1/3 = 2/15 chance of winning. But lynching scum today would not be that bad for scum, who would still have an average of 4/5 * 2/3 = 8/15 chance of winning. And scum knows if we're doing better or worse than average since they know if we're close to lynching one of them. So I think it's much more likely that scum would be willing to self-sacrifice for their team than Town.
This is compelling. I suck at math, so I'll just trust it is correct.
unvote
Still, we need to lynch someone today. Does scum still have over a 50 percent chance of winning even if they lose another player today? That seems really high.
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I don't see how Insomniac disproves it, in fact Insomniac would only disprove it if he was scum and didn't get money for being on a lynch, something we couldn't prove until the game was over since we can't trust a scum player. I admit my theory is pretty speculative, but it's a possible explanation for why you might think that. My vote is mostly for your scummy voting record, and the fact that you're still alive when you're clearly leading town to our detriment. This might have been a scum slip and it might not have been, but you are scummy, one of the scummiest players now in my opinion. I am comfortable voting for you.
You are right about the point about Insomniac.
However there is a line in your quote I would like to discuss with you...
Why does scum perform night kills?
Scum generally tries to use its night kills to either kill power roles or to eliminate players who are perceived as town to be IC or close to it, thereby keeping up the number of players who could potentially be lynched in future days.
I am far from being considered an IC in this game--in fact I am rarely considered that, it seems that scum usually sees me as a potential lynch in a later day because of my reputation for being tricksy... I dont' mind this stereotype because it means I generally get to live longer in games, which is cool!
So why would scum kill me? Why would they kill me when I am making their job easier by being far from pro-town in this game? They wouldn't. They would see me as a potential mislynch down the road.
So yes I agree that you can and probably should think I am scummy from my voting record and bad play, but to think me scummy because I am still alive is very counter intuitive.
I think this exchange from D4 is important.
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sudgy, was anything said in the captured folks QT that would have given Arch a hint as to the Oracle? We were discussing possibilities yesterday.
Note Arch selected Jimmmmm and raerae to clear with his fake claim. Does scum name a partner? Both partners?
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Let's face it, mislynching today would be pretty disastrous for Town. We'd have to survive two lylos and will have an average of 2/5 * 1/3 = 2/15 chance of winning. But lynching scum today would not be that bad for scum, who would still have an average of 4/5 * 2/3 = 8/15 chance of winning. And scum knows if we're doing better or worse than average since they know if we're close to lynching one of them. So I think it's much more likely that scum would be willing to self-sacrifice for their team than Town.
This is compelling. I suck at math, so I'll just trust it is correct.
unvote
Still, we need to lynch someone today. Does scum still have over a 50 percent chance of winning even if they lose another player today? That seems really high.
Yep. If we lynch scum today, the remaining scum will have an 80% chance of surviving tomorrow and then a 66.67% chance of surviving lylo for the win. Multiply these together and you get scum having a 53.33% chance of winning if we lynch one of them today. But in reality it will be higher or lower depending on how close the Townies are to finding the remaining scum, and only scum know that.
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Let's face it, mislynching today would be pretty disastrous for Town. We'd have to survive two lylos and will have an average of 2/5 * 1/3 = 2/15 chance of winning. But lynching scum today would not be that bad for scum, who would still have an average of 4/5 * 2/3 = 8/15 chance of winning. And scum knows if we're doing better or worse than average since they know if we're close to lynching one of them. So I think it's much more likely that scum would be willing to self-sacrifice for their team than Town.
This is compelling. I suck at math, so I'll just trust it is correct.
unvote
Still, we need to lynch someone today. Does scum still have over a 50 percent chance of winning even if they lose another player today? That seems really high.
Yep. If we lynch scum today, the remaining scum will have an 80% chance of surviving tomorrow and then a 66.67% chance of surviving lylo for the win. Multiply these together and you get scum having a 53.33% chance of winning if we lynch one of them today. But in reality it will be higher or lower depending on how close the Townies are to finding the remaining scum, and only scum know that.
Let's assume we all accept IC Sudgy.
So we're looking at 2/6 + 1 IC today, 1/5 tomorrow (if we lynch scum today). Any town NOT named sudgy has a 2/5 chance in catching scum, which isn't terrible.
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sudgy, was anything said in the captured folks QT that would have given Arch a hint as to the Oracle? We were discussing possibilities yesterday.
Note Arch selected Jimmmmm and raerae to clear with his fake claim. Does scum name a partner? Both partners?
I would be VERY surprised if he named both partners. No idea if it's 0 or 1.
Seems more and more likely scum has the oracle, which is sad.
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Yep, no way Arch would claim having the Oracle if a Townie had it.
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I mean, scum wouldn't self-vote this late in the game, right? That would just be suicide, right?
If I'm scum, who is my remaining partner? And wouldn't he/she be furious with me?
I don't think your partner would be furious. Especially not since I'm sure you cooked this up in QT last night. The thing is, it's just crazy enough, just ash enough, to work. But it didn't. In my eyes, scum had to come in big and strong and really have a plan after Arch's royal flop yesterday. You're doing something so outrageous that no town member, with the end-goal of actually winning, would ever contemplate.
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I think it's most likely that Arch named the two Townies who he thought were the two least likely mislynches, with the intent of killing us off the next two nights. It's possible he named 1 teammate, but I think it's most likely that he didn't.
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Hmm, Jorbles-Insomniac?
ashersky's latest posts have felt less forced. This is a really freaking hard decision.
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I think it's most likely that Arch named the two Townies who he thought were the two least likely mislynches, with the intent of killing us off the next two nights. It's possible he named 1 teammate, but I think it's most likely that he didn't.
But then why kill yuma? Why not stick to the plan? I guess if he survived, it makes more sense. Since he died, leaving his "targets" alive provides us with some wifom on why he chose them.
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I mean, scum wouldn't self-vote this late in the game, right? That would just be suicide, right?
If I'm scum, who is my remaining partner? And wouldn't he/she be furious with me?
I don't think your partner would be furious. Especially not since I'm sure you cooked this up in QT last night. The thing is, it's just crazy enough, just ash enough, to work. But it didn't. In my eyes, scum had to come in big and strong and really have a plan after Arch's royal flop yesterday. You're doing something so outrageous that no town member, with the end-goal of actually winning, would ever contemplate.
Except I've been the same me since Day 1.
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yuma could have been killed just because he is freaking scary from scum perspective. He has been getting nightkilled a lot lately.
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Let's face it, mislynching today would be pretty disastrous for Town. We'd have to survive two lylos and will have an average of 2/5 * 1/3 = 2/15 chance of winning. But lynching scum today would not be that bad for scum, who would still have an average of 4/5 * 2/3 = 8/15 chance of winning. And scum knows if we're doing better or worse than average since they know if we're close to lynching one of them. So I think it's much more likely that scum would be willing to self-sacrifice for their team than Town.
This is compelling. I suck at math, so I'll just trust it is correct.
unvote
Still, we need to lynch someone today. Does scum still have over a 50 percent chance of winning even if they lose another player today? That seems really high.
Yep. If we lynch scum today, the remaining scum will have an 80% chance of surviving tomorrow and then a 66.67% chance of surviving lylo for the win. Multiply these together and you get scum having a 53.33% chance of winning if we lynch one of them today. But in reality it will be higher or lower depending on how close the Townies are to finding the remaining scum, and only scum know that.
catching up at this post now. Still think ashersky is scummy, but scum names 1 partner here for sure, not both.
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sudgy, was anything said in the captured folks QT that would have given Arch a hint as to the Oracle? We were discussing possibilities yesterday.
Note Arch selected Jimmmmm and raerae to clear with his fake claim. Does scum name a partner? Both partners?
This is the post i meant to quote in the above post.
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Caught up now. I like ash for a lynch. Of Jimmm/raerae the named I'd lean towards lynching raerae and away from lynching Jimmm as Jimmm seems townie to me here.
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Let's face it, mislynching today would be pretty disastrous for Town. We'd have to survive two lylos and will have an average of 2/5 * 1/3 = 2/15 chance of winning. But lynching scum today would not be that bad for scum, who would still have an average of 4/5 * 2/3 = 8/15 chance of winning. And scum knows if we're doing better or worse than average since they know if we're close to lynching one of them. So I think it's much more likely that scum would be willing to self-sacrifice for their team than Town.
This is compelling. I suck at math, so I'll just trust it is correct.
unvote
Still, we need to lynch someone today. Does scum still have over a 50 percent chance of winning even if they lose another player today? That seems really high.
Yep. If we lynch scum today, the remaining scum will have an 80% chance of surviving tomorrow and then a 66.67% chance of surviving lylo for the win. Multiply these together and you get scum having a 53.33% chance of winning if we lynch one of them today. But in reality it will be higher or lower depending on how close the Townies are to finding the remaining scum, and only scum know that.
catching up at this post now. Still think ashersky is scummy, but scum names 1 partner here for sure, not both.
Are you saying you think Arch named exactly 1 partner or at most 1?
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I don't like the position Jorbles has been in this game as it doesn't give me a strong read on him which leaves me feeling a bit negative towards him, however I THINK I lean town on him. My key suspects are Ash/raerae. I'd plop a vote down for ash here but I don't want to rush anything yet.
PPE: I think Arch named exactly 1, and I don't think it's Jimmm
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PPE: I think Arch named exactly 1, and I don't think it's Jimmm
So what happens if we lynch raerae and she flips Town?
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Hopping on a plane and won't be around until tomorrow night sometime. Not official v/la but still want ya'll to know.
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I just realized, we don't have a soft deadline yet. Soft deadline, Friday at 12:00 AM.
Now, I think either scum bought the oracle, or the owner of the oracle got NKed. I think liopoil had it and scum somehow knew he did (so that's why Arch claimed then).
Also, lynched people, you seem to be asking me something but I can't quite tell what it is you're asking me. Could you try to say it a bit better?
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I think it's most likely that Arch had it.
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sudgy, so you have access to the dead QT but you can't post there?
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It's the lynched players QT, and I can not post there.
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Oh lynched players. That's a lot less useful than scum-killed players I think. Have they had anything useful to say?
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Not much, lekkit gave me a bit of the case against ashersky, and Kooshie and Archetype have been saying random things trying to confuse/annoy me.
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So that's Kooshie, mail-mi, Lekkit and Arch. Kooshie and Arch can provide WIFOM, but all you're really left with is mail-mi and Lekkit.
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Do you agree with Lekkit's case against ash? Two confirmed Townies in agreement is pretty substantial.
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Insom (and I think Eevee, I'm not sure) agreed with it too.
And, as I said, lekkit's case was part of my case.
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Oh, reading back a bit, mail-mi thinks ash is scum too.
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Oh, something I totally forgot to ask: I went into a room, and a bunch of things were already bought there. One of them was the Platinum Key. Who bought it? (I know that person might be dead, but who knows)
Oh, and also, lekkit said hello to you guys at the end of D4.
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Sounds like scum have the Platinum key. Wonderful.
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Insom (and I think Eevee, I'm not sure) agreed with it too.
And, as I said, lekkit's case was part of my case.
I did indeed, but I also had a case on ash of my own previously.
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I think it's most likely that Arch named the two Townies who he thought were the two least likely mislynches, with the intent of killing us off the next two nights. It's possible he named 1 teammate, but I think it's most likely that he didn't.
I don't know if I agree with that. When Arch got caught in lolcats he went through a lot of work to create a fake QT to try and cast confusion onto the game. When he did that he put in some townies, but he did include one of his partners (it was ash I think). I think archetype would have tried to clear one of his partners here. If I had to guess I would lean towards it being Jimmmm.
A small bit of evidence, but something I noticed. Does this exchange seem a little forced to anyone else?
Well finally.
Are you scum who completely fooled me?
Nope.
Anyhow I at least half agree with Insomniac's read on the situation.
I'm leaning towards thinking ash/Jimmmm, but I can't rule out ash/raerae.
However, I think ash is our best bet. What do people think of lynching ash and we sorting out Jimmmm and raerae tomorrow?
Or am I getting too ahead of myself? I don't know if anyone but me and Insomniac believe that Archetype would try to clear one of his partners.
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I'm not sure if Arch would clear his partners...
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Here's one other thing to think about, we all seem to suspect ash. Do we believe his partner is busing him?
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Jorbles' comments on me have come across as a bit ingenuine.
I still don't think Jimmmm is cleared btw.
Maybe there isn't much in this, but no one was saying that I was cleared. ash went out of his way to point out that Eevee and I aren't cleared based on the sudgy thing, which I agreed with, and not even I've said that Arch "clearing" me and raerae actually clears us.
Jimmmm still feels scummy to me, but this could be residual from previously suspecting him. His voting has been scummy in a way similar to Archetypes. I could see him as scum.
A bit hedgy here, like he's trying to get a feel for how people will take the idea.
Thank you raerae. Btw, isn't it sort of interesting people who suspected Jimm have been killed off and it's just his heaviest (?) supporters left?
Makes me a bit uncomfortable to be honest...
I've suspected Jimmmm on and off most of the game. I still suspect him, and which Jimmmm detractors have been killed off and when?
Again points out his previous "suspicions" of me, and asks others to do the work to make a case on me.
(I'll just take this opportunity to point out that in the recent blitz game in which I was scum I killed the ICs who had been supporting me in mcmc and mail-mi ahead of non-ICs who had been suspecting me, going so far as taking spiritbears who was sure I was scum, and shraeye who was sure spiritbears was Town to the final three with me, instead of mail-mi, who had said we should lynch just about everyone else before me. Not solid evidence, of course, but it's there.)
I still dont see any concrete information we would get from your flip. None! I would be able to deduct you from my suspect pool, but that holds true for any other lynch.
I have hard time believing you could actually want to be the lynch as town, so your self-vote reads insincere to me. Scum is insincere. I don't claim to KNOW you are scum, I was pretty darn sure in helsinki mafia and you were town. I dont think your actions today are helping us find the real scum if you are town, though.
What information could we get from lynching anyone at this point? The only info I can think we could get from lynching anyone would be if we lynched Jimmmm because if he was scum we could see who didn't hammer him when he was at L-1 before. That's not enough info for me to lynch someone. I can't think of any other concrete info we'd get from a lynch that favours lynching one player over another.
Brings up the idea of lynching me for information, but concludes that's "not enough", as if that was his only argument on me.
Anyway, all of that were things I noticed, but not the main point of this post. What led to this post was the following:
I think it's most likely that Arch named the two Townies who he thought were the two least likely mislynches, with the intent of killing us off the next two nights. It's possible he named 1 teammate, but I think it's most likely that he didn't.
I don't know if I agree with that. When Arch got caught in lolcats he went through a lot of work to create a fake QT to try and cast confusion onto the game. When he did that he put in some townies, but he did include one of his partners (it was ash I think). I think archetype would have tried to clear one of his partners here. If I had to guess I would lean towards it being Jimmmm.
Something about this seems off to me. It's like Jorbles is trying to start from scratch and conclude that I am suspicious. The whole "If I had to guess" seems fake when he's already been arguing that I'm suspicious.
A small bit of evidence, but something I noticed. Does this exchange seem a little forced to anyone else?
Well finally.
Are you scum who completely fooled me?
Nope.
He calls this evidence, but I don't see it. ash's post was strange-ish, and I didn't fully understand what he meant at first, so I ended up assuming it basically meant, "Are you scum?" So I gave a meaningless answer to a meaningless question. But my first post had nothing to do with ash, and ash's post really had nothing to do with my post. So you could argue that ash's post is fake suspicion. Maybe it is, I don't know. I think it was meant as a joke regardless. But if you're trying to say that we were forcing an argument, we're both quite capable of arguing much more than that, for example when we actually argued about something substantial shortly after.
Anyhow I at least half agree with Insomniac's read on the situation.
I'm leaning towards thinking ash/Jimmmm, but I can't rule out ash/raerae.
However, I think ash is our best bet. What do people think of lynching ash and we sorting out Jimmmm and raerae tomorrow?
Or am I getting too ahead of myself? I don't know if anyone but me and Insomniac believe that Archetype would try to clear one of his partners.
He's now narrowed the list of possible scum down to three people. This worries me. It could be that the plan is to bus ash today, setting up the two mislynches that will win scum the game.
I hope I'm not being biased here based on knowing that one way or another he's wrong about me. He just feels a bit off to me.
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To clarify a bunch of things:
-I'm saying that I don't think you're cleared because other people seem to think that you are. Maybe not explicitly, but most people seem to think that you are fairly towny. I am saying that I do not.
-Jimmmm said that he thought that Arch was not trying to clear one of his scum mates, but just picking two players who were town to give himself some town cred. I think he was trying to clear one of his buddies, and the fact that Jimmmm was pushing the opposite argument made me think that it must be him.
-If it sounds like I'm building my case from scratch a bit it's because I tried to reset my reads and see if I still held them.
-It sounds like Jimmmm agrees that ash is probably scum and that ash's partner must be busing him though he think it's me busing ash, which is wrong. This would mean I bused every single one of my partners if I were scum which I think is ridiculous. I bring this up because we shouldn't lynch ash unless we think that his partner would bus him.
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-I'm saying that I don't think you're cleared because other people seem to think that you are. Maybe not explicitly, but most people seem to think that you are fairly towny. I am saying that I do not.
Okay, I guess cleared means two different things to us then.
-Jimmmm said that he thought that Arch was not trying to clear one of his scum mates, but just picking two players who were town to give himself some town cred. I think he was trying to clear one of his buddies, and the fact that Jimmmm was pushing the opposite argument made me think that it must be him.
[/quote.
I said I thought it was more likely. Admittedly that's one step easier for me to say than a Townie who doesn't know that I'm Town. But I was giving an opinion rather than pushing an argument, and concluding that I "must" be scum because of it is a step too far I think.
-If it sounds like I'm building my case from scratch a bit it's because I tried to reset my reads and see if I still held them.
I don't know, it just seems fake to me, like you're trying to appear to reset your reads making sure you arrive at the same conclusion.
-It sounds like Jimmmm agrees that ash is probably scum and that ash's partner must be busing him though he think it's me busing ash, which is wrong. This would mean I bused every single one of my partners if I were scum which I think is ridiculous. I bring this up because we shouldn't lynch ash unless we think that his partner would bus him.
I said, "It could be". It could also be that you're scum and both of ash and raerae are Town and you're trying to set up two mislynches out of three. It could be that you and raerae are scum. It could be you're Town. I wouldn't say I'm in a position to say that any particular scenario is probably true.
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Whoop, must preview before posting. Repost to fix quoting issues.
-I'm saying that I don't think you're cleared because other people seem to think that you are. Maybe not explicitly, but most people seem to think that you are fairly towny. I am saying that I do not.
Okay, I guess cleared means two different things to us then.
-Jimmmm said that he thought that Arch was not trying to clear one of his scum mates, but just picking two players who were town to give himself some town cred. I think he was trying to clear one of his buddies, and the fact that Jimmmm was pushing the opposite argument made me think that it must be him.
I said I thought it was more likely. Admittedly that's one step easier for me to say than a Townie who doesn't know that I'm Town. But I was giving an opinion rather than pushing an argument, and concluding that I "must" be scum because of it is a step too far I think.
-If it sounds like I'm building my case from scratch a bit it's because I tried to reset my reads and see if I still held them.
I don't know, it just seems fake to me, like you're trying to appear to reset your reads making sure you arrive at the same conclusion.
-It sounds like Jimmmm agrees that ash is probably scum and that ash's partner must be busing him though he think it's me busing ash, which is wrong. This would mean I bused every single one of my partners if I were scum which I think is ridiculous. I bring this up because we shouldn't lynch ash unless we think that his partner would bus him.
I said, "It could be". It could also be that you're scum and both of ash and raerae are Town and you're trying to set up two mislynches out of three. It could be that you and raerae are scum. It could be you're Town. I wouldn't say I'm in a position to say that any particular scenario is probably true.
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Kooshie, aren't you not allowed to talk in code? And what in the world is "head orbs" and why do I have them?
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I just realized, we don't have a soft deadline yet. Soft deadline, Friday at 12:00 AM.
Now, I think either scum bought the oracle, or the owner of the oracle got NKed. I think liopoil had it and scum somehow knew he did (so that's why Arch claimed then).
Also, lynched people, you seem to be asking me something but I can't quite tell what it is you're asking me. Could you try to say it a bit better?
I support this soft deadline. Anybody else have thoughts on it?
Sudgy, did you get an answer to this question?
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Fine with that soft dl. I dont think everyone has answered to my in my opinion informational question (why are you a bad lynch?). Insomniac, ashersky? Even jimmm? (Not sure)
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I just realized, we don't have a soft deadline yet. Soft deadline, Friday at 12:00 AM.
Now, I think either scum bought the oracle, or the owner of the oracle got NKed. I think liopoil had it and scum somehow knew he did (so that's why Arch claimed then).
Also, lynched people, you seem to be asking me something but I can't quite tell what it is you're asking me. Could you try to say it a bit better?
I support this soft deadline. Anybody else have thoughts on it?
Sudgy, did you get an answer to this question?
Nope.
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I agree with the soft deadline in principle, but I don't want it to be the case that suddenly it's here so we had better pick a lynch and go with it, as it has felt like before. Obviously best case is to decide on the best possible lynch by then, but I'd rather go a couple of days over for a good lynch than stick to the deadline by lynching badly.
Why am I Town? I guess my only answer to that is to compare my play this game to the two recent game in which I have been scum, both LoTR and the Blitz game. I have at different times prioritised each of those two games over this one, and I think played differently in those two from this one. Some people who have been with me in those games agree with me, while others who haven't don't.
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I think most of us already agree ash is the best lynch. We for now could say we'll lynch him when the deadline comes.
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I think most of us already agree ash is the best lynch. We for now could say we'll lynch him when the deadline comes.
I'm a little less confident than I was.
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I'm not sure if ash is the best lynch. My problem with him is that if he's Town he was pushing for something explicitly anti-Town, and I don't see a reason for him to do that as Town, but I can imagine a reason for doing what he was doing as scum. But that's only based on Today's posts, I haven't had a chance to revisit his game as a whole yet. sudgy, why do you think ash is the best lynch?
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Because I think he's scum. The reason for that is that his play is so crazy I think he's doing it to draw attention to himself so he'll not have as much suspicion.
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@mail-mi: Your post 83.
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Because I think he's scum. The reason for that is that his play is so crazy I think he's doing it to draw attention to himself so he'll not have as much suspicion.
That's a good point. Is it reasonable to think that Ash is drawing so much attention to himself to keep the spotlight off his partner? If/when ash flips scum, I think we should consider looking at players who have been more reserved and quiet but slowly drawing suspicion over the past few days. From my point of view, the most likely pool of suspects is Insom, Jimmmmmm, and myself (I'm town but I fit the bill so look at me too).
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Because I think he's scum. The reason for that is that his play is so crazy I think he's doing it to draw attention to himself so he'll not have as much suspicion.
Because this is an awesome way to play as scum.
Because I think he's scum. The reason for that is that his play is so crazy I think he's doing it to draw attention to himself so he'll not have as much suspicion.
That's a good point. Is it reasonable to think that Ash is drawing so much attention to himself to keep the spotlight off his partner? If/when ash flips scum, I think we should consider looking at players who have been more reserved and quiet but slowly drawing suspicion over the past few days. From my point of view, the most likely pool of suspects is Insom, Jimmmmmm, and myself (I'm town but I fit the bill so look at me too).
Raerae's point is better. I'd love to hear musings on my "partner." I'm not scum, but have never been able to convince anyone of that, ever.
Fine with that soft dl. I dont think everyone has answered to my in my opinion informational question (why are you a bad lynch?). Insomniac, ashersky? Even jimmm? (Not sure)
I pressed HARD on Ozle for two days until he went VLA for good. I fought with yuma over issues on D4. Both ended up beign town. What scum player does that?
Also, look at Archetype's lynch. In the end, I agreed not to hammer in case the hammerer got extra benefits. I was on, and could have hammered, and didn't. And then, Archetype self-hammered. If I'm scum, I either hammer for town points there, or Archetype lets my plan to have sudgy hammer go through so that I get town points for that. Instead, Archetype hammered to end the day. If we're together, that's some pretty crappy teamwork.
Meta-wise, any of the folks who have played often with me know that scum!ash is much better than this. Look at my last few scum games. And look at my last few town games. I'm not scum here.
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Because I think he's scum. The reason for that is that his play is so crazy I think he's doing it to draw attention to himself so he'll not have as much suspicion.
Because this is an awesome way to play as scum.
I think your argument that it's a bad way to play as scum in invalid when it's a worse way to play as Town.
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Because I think he's scum. The reason for that is that his play is so crazy I think he's doing it to draw attention to himself so he'll not have as much suspicion.
Because this is an awesome way to play as scum.
I think your argument that it's a bad way to play as scum in invalid when it's a worse way to play as Town.
Huh?
So my argument is invalid and it is in actuality good scum play?
Or my argument is invalid because, although it is bad scum play, it is also bad town play? But then, my argument is right in that it is bad scum play anyway.
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I've been rereading a bit and have found some interesting things regarding ash and arch (and even Kooshie!). I'd like to finish this up and will post tomorrow evening but need some sleep now.
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Because I think he's scum. The reason for that is that his play is so crazy I think he's doing it to draw attention to himself so he'll not have as much suspicion.
Because this is an awesome way to play as scum.
I think your argument that it's a bad way to play as scum in invalid when it's a worse way to play as Town.
Huh?
So my argument is invalid and it is in actuality good scum play?
Or my argument is invalid because, although it is bad scum play, it is also bad town play? But then, my argument is right in that it is bad scum play anyway.
Your argument that you can't be scum because it's bad scum play doesn't work because it's worse Town play. You could say it's just bad play in general. But you are using it to try to convince us that you're Town, and if you're scum and succeed in doing so then it is, almost by definition, good scum play.
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@mail-mi: Your post 83.
Oops, sorry, I misread it and thought he was asking me something. He was asking Arch something.
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I've been rereading a bit and have found some interesting things regarding ash and arch (and even Kooshie!). I'd like to finish this up and will post tomorrow evening but need some sleep now.
I look forward to your mislynch case and, if successful, congratulating you at the end of the game for winning the MVP for expert scum play.
This post has convinced me raerae is scum.
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This post has convinced me raerae is scum.
Now that sounds like something I can work with. I'll certainly withhold judgement until the promised follow-up, but I'm definitely interested in your reasoning behind this.
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Also, look at Archetype's lynch. In the end, I agreed not to hammer in case the hammerer got extra benefits. I was on, and could have hammered, and didn't. And then, Archetype self-hammered. If I'm scum, I either hammer for town points there, or Archetype lets my plan to have sudgy hammer go through so that I get town points for that. Instead, Archetype hammered to end the day. If we're together, that's some pretty crappy teamwork.
It's not like you guys could have coordinated on that (unless you have day chat) plus it was so obvious that Arch had made a mistake and was going to flip scum that even his partners turned against him. No one would have gotten town points for hammering there.
I'm interested in seeing what raerae's case is.
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Also, the town-cred doesnt come from letting a townie hammer. I mean, you did your piece in letting that happen. It comes from not stealing the hammer yourself, which is what you did.
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Vote Count 5.1
ashersky (1) -- sudgy
Not Voting (6) -- Eevee, Insomniac, Jorbles, raerae, ashersky, Jimm
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Deadline is May 18th at 11:00 AM. You will begin eating into your bankable time tomorrow at 11:00 AM.
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Ok, another game opening up seems to stall this a bit. I tried to start to reread people but there are SO many pages. Should we all pick one to reread and compile for others?
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Ok, another game opening up seems to stall this a bit. I tried to start to reread people but there are SO many pages. Should we all pick one to reread and compile for others?
Scum could easily throw things off that way.
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Ok, another game opening up seems to stall this a bit. I tried to start to reread people but there are SO many pages. Should we all pick one to reread and compile for others?
Scum could easily throw things off that way.
I imagine the player in question would argue pretty hard if someone tried to present incorrect facts. I suggest that you choose who reads whom, so scum has less chance in getting to analyze each other.
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This does seem to have logistical problems. If someone doesn't do their assigned player than we might just have someone that no one has looked at. Plus we'd also need to assume that everyone here is trustworthy, we know for a fact that two players won't be trustworthy.
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Its pretty damn risky for scum to intentionally misrepresent the facts, it's not like others players arent allowed to back and check them (the player in question should notice it easily at least). I dont know, I jsut think we need something to get us moving.
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Here's something interesting I'll do: mail-mi and lekkit: sum up what you think of all the currently alive players.
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They might not lie though, I was thinking more of sins of omission or working extra hard to make someone look scummy (or not working very hard so their partner looks towny).
Anyhow I'm sorry about this, but I'm slammed at work right now and can't contribute much until Friday. I have Friday off though so I'll play catchup then. I think I'm going to do a reread of everyone's interactions on d2 since that's where the bulk of the games interactions are.
PPE: Oh sudgy, that's brilliant. We have dead Townies who can help.
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They might not lie though, I was thinking more of sins of omission or working extra hard to make someone look scummy (or not working very hard so their partner looks towny).
I think the bolded part is the most likely negative from this exercise.
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Ok, so this is Ash starting from the beginning and hitting the high points.
1. Ash's "tell" thing in the beginning. It wasn't so much the fact that he was throwing tells around like Tootsie Rolls at a parade, but that he stopped once he was called out on it. Town Ash is belligerent and stops when he's good and ready to.
2. This quote. This reads as a defense of Kooshie to me. By this point, I was going after lio pretty hard, yuma was also on him, so I assume he was trying to piggy back on that and get something serious rolling.
vote: liopoil
Mcmc is contributing plenty but Kooshie gets your lurker tag? They have the exact same number of posts in your quote. Sounds like trying to form a bad case on D1. Scum tell (really).
3. #499 is his vote on Kooshie, putting her at L-2. The only other time he mentioned Kooshie prior to his vote was in the above quote. The rest of D1 he spent trying to convince us all that the more townier yuma plays, the more likely it is that he's scum.
4. His analysis of the Xerion kill, first saying newbie scum would be the only ones fool enough to kill such an easy lynch target, then completely contradicting himself by again going after yuma, saying he's the only player advanced enough to make that kill. Below are the contradictions.
5. Hypocrisy, in that last quote Ash criticizes yuma for flip-flopping on Jimmmmm when he himself first advocated a "Jimmmmm lynch deadline" and suggests that it "Might be better to get to night." Later, he says he doesn't think Jimmmmm will flip scum and won't contribute to his lynch.
6. Repeatedly refuses to give sudgy towncred based on the gold key thing even after it was all but mod-confirmed.
7. Yuma explained the case on Arch (#1731), Ash ignored it for the remainder of the day and continued to push other lynches, namely Lekkit and mcmc.
This is enough for me.
Vote: Ashersky
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Ok, so this is Ash starting from the beginning and hitting the high points.
1. Ash's "tell" thing in the beginning. It wasn't so much the fact that he was throwing tells around like Tootsie Rolls at a parade, but that he stopped once he was called out on it. Town Ash is belligerent and stops when he's good and ready to.
2. This quote. This reads as a defense of Kooshie to me. By this point, I was going after lio pretty hard, yuma was also on him, so I assume he was trying to piggy back on that and get something serious rolling.
vote: liopoil
Mcmc is contributing plenty but Kooshie gets your lurker tag? They have the exact same number of posts in your quote. Sounds like trying to form a bad case on D1. Scum tell (really).
3. #499 is his vote on Kooshie, putting her at L-2. The only other time he mentioned Kooshie prior to his vote was in the above quote. The rest of D1 he spent trying to convince us all that the more townier yuma plays, the more likely it is that he's scum.
4. His analysis of the Xerion kill, first saying newbie scum would be the only ones fool enough to kill such an easy lynch target, then completely contradicting himself by again going after yuma, saying he's the only player advanced enough to make that kill. Below are the contradictions.
5. Hypocrisy, in that last quote Ash criticizes yuma for flip-flopping on Jimmmmm when he himself first advocated a "Jimmmmm lynch deadline" and suggests that it "Might be better to get to night." Later, he says he doesn't think Jimmmmm will flip scum and won't contribute to his lynch.
6. Repeatedly refuses to give sudgy towncred based on the gold key thing even after it was all but mod-confirmed.
7. Yuma explained the case on Arch (#1731), Ash ignored it for the remainder of the day and continued to push other lynches, namely Lekkit and mcmc.
This is enough for me.
Vote: Ashersky
They might not lie though, I was thinking more of sins of omission or working extra hard to make someone look scummy (or not working very hard so their partner looks towny).
I think the bolded part is the most likely negative from this exercise.
See?
vote: raerae
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ash, are you deliberately being unhelpful? You say you're convinced raerae is scum, but won't say why, then you imply that she's working extra hard to make you look scummy, but again won't give details.
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Ash, I promised to come in with the results of a reread and you call you me scummy but didn't say why. I post said results and you call me scummy and the best reason you can come up with is reposting something that came after I said I'd post reread results. Is there anything I could do that you wouldn't call scummy right now?
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Ash, I promised to come in with the results of a reread and you call you me scummy but didn't say why. I post said results and you call me scummy and the best reason you can come up with is reposting something that came after I said I'd post reread results. Is there anything I could do that you wouldn't call scummy right now?
This post isn't scummy. There's plenty you can do that isn't scummy.
I think my point was lost in the way I decided to present it.
When you first posted that you "noticed" something about me in relation to Arch and Kooshie, I immediately got the sense that you were scum deciding to help push my mislynch through. But I didn't want to write it right then, because it may have affected what you actually put together, so I was vague.
Then, there was the unrelated discussion of assigning re-reads, and the possible negatives of that plan. When Jorbles made his point about forced scum reads, he hit exactly on something I had already thought about your post. So I boldedly agreed.
Then you came in with, what seems to me, a very weak case on me. So I pointed out what had already been said that I already agreed with.
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raerae's post is longer than average sure, but it's pretty short for a case. In what sense is she "working extra hard"?
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Raerae's case is also the best one presented today.
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4. His analysis of the Xerion kill, first saying newbie scum would be the only ones fool enough to kill such an easy lynch target, then completely contradicting himself by again going after yuma, saying he's the only player advanced enough to make that kill. Below are the contradictions.
Scum quick hammer to keep from more info getting out is a possibility.
except our quick hammerer is dead.
Terrible scum play, that.
I think we're looking for more newbie scum.
FoS: Yuma
He's too good to trust, was off-wagon, and has been pushing an off-wagon lynch in a pro-town way. He's successfully deflected any attention away from him by driving the convo. See MnM for textbook Yuma scum.
then vote for me. But really do you think that the evidence points more greatly to me than say mcmc or Jimmmm where there are obvious interactions with Kooshie (Jimmmm being Kooshie's biggest town read, and mcmc blatantly defending the Kooshie lynch)?
Do you have any actual evidence? Or are you just saying this because your scum buddy (buddies) are under pressure?
Just because I am good at portraying town when I am scum, doesn't mean I am scum when I am town.
Ok. vote: yuma
Reasons:
You are probably the only player on f.ds advanced enough to kill Xeiron on purpose knowing we would push a newbie scum theory based on that.
You are leading town in circles, concentric ones spiraling away from you, specifically.
You haven't been consistent on D2: the latest three or so posts before you started responding to me were back and forth on Jimmmmm, for example.
You are ignoring possible scum play from Ozle happening right before your eyes.
Note, these are all D2 reasons, because scum!yuma doesn't give clues on D1. Most scum don't.
I went ahead and fixed your quotes to includes the posts you were including.
I disagree with your Point #4 that my analysis of the X kill is scummy, and that I contradicted myself. Note that you quoted posts that are 8 days apart, with plenty of conversations ongoing in-between. 8 days is a lot of time to continue to think/analyse/discuss/etc.
In my first post quoted, I posit that killing the derphammerer was terrible scum play, and that only newbie scum would do that. I think this was a valid reaction to the kill. It's a fair statement.
In the second post, where my "contradiction" sits, I vote yuma, who as we can see now, was actually town. None of us knew that at the time though. And the first point I list is that yuma is smart enough to pull off the newbie scum mistake on purpose to throw us off. That's not a contradiction, that's saying yuma could have come to the same conclusion as I did and used it as a reason to kill X.
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raerae's post is longer than average sure, but it's pretty short for a case. In what sense is she "working extra hard"?
By presenting contradicting quotes (but including only links, which most folks won't click) that don't actually contradict each other, for one.
Digging up miniscule quotes with little context or substance to make me look scummy. Context is important--why did someone say something at a certain time can change the meaning of a line or word immensely.
Using personality traits and turning them into scum traits (hypocrite, etc.).
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7. Yuma explained the case on Arch (#1731), Ash ignored it for the remainder of the day and continued to push other lynches, namely Lekkit and mcmc.
Ignores the fact that I was in agreement on the scumslip and was working to get him lynched.
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I think newbie scum never was a sufficient argument, with a team that big someone was bound to realize xeiron would get heat for the hammer. I think they just thought hammer on scum would give a lot of coins or something.
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7. Yuma explained the case on Arch (#1731), Ash ignored it for the remainder of the day and continued to push other lynches, namely Lekkit and mcmc.
Ignores the fact that I was in agreement on the scumslip and was working to get him lynched.
While you voted for yourself?
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7. Yuma explained the case on Arch (#1731), Ash ignored it for the remainder of the day and continued to push other lynches, namely Lekkit and mcmc.
Ignores the fact that I was in agreement on the scumslip and was working to get him lynched.
While you voted for yourself?
Did you read the context around my self-votes? Stop ignoring context.
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They did not make sense in context.
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They did not make sense in context.
I give up. Please just mislynch me and get me out of this game.
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Mail-mi agrees with the case on ash, but I'll ask you two again - Could you sum up all of your thoughts on all of the alive players? I would like you to do it before the day is over, as I will be dead tomorrow.
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They did not make sense in context.
I give up. Please just mislynch me and get me out of this game.
I think your trying has been pretty spotty in the first place. :(
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Vote Count 5.2
ashersky (2) -- sudgy, raerae
raerae (1) -- ashersky
Not Voting (6) -- Eevee, Insomniac, Jorbles, Jimm
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. There are 16 days left. Deadline is May 18th at 11:00 AM.
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Alright, here's mail-mi's and lekkit's scummy to towny list:
mail-mi: Ash, Jorbles, Insomniac (scum reads), Jimmmmm, raerae, sudgy (town)
He missed Eevee for some reason.
lekkit: ash, Ins, Eevee, Jorbles, raerae, Jimmmmm, sudgy
A reminder, Soft deadline is tonight. All of you who who want to lynch ash should do so now. Then I'll say goodbye to everyone. I'll still be reading what you say, lynched people!
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Have they said anything else about ash?
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I'm online all night.
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Have they said anything else about ash?
No, other than their first things they said about him (which I already mentioned).
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Have an evening event until about 10:30 forum time but will be around for deadline. Any chance we're going to stick to it?
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Have an evening event until about 10:30 forum time but will be around for deadline. Any chance we're going to stick to it?
If we all come on and vote for someone, yeah.
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I'm around.
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Still here. We really have done an exceptionally terrible job at forming interactions between people.
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Still here. We really have done an exceptionally terrible job at forming interactions between people.
Yeah...
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Still here. We really have done an exceptionally terrible job at forming interactions between people.
Yeah...
Who would you want to lynch?
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Still here. We really have done an exceptionally terrible job at forming interactions between people.
Yeah...
Who would you want to lynch?
Ash. That's why my vote is on him. We only need two more people to lynch him, so if you want to you should probably vote for him. Who are you wanting to lynch?
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Do we want to talk about things we've done/bought/had at night?
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Do we want to talk about things we've done/bought/had at night?
If it will help town, yes. If it's just saying what your map looks like, that's pointless.
..
:O
I just realized - someone bought a Talisman (I'm not sure who). It's one shot and gives you doublevoting for a day when you use it. Scum could push their way through LyLo with it. If you're town, please say that you have it so we know scum doesn't (I know scum could say so too, oh well).
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Do we want to talk about things we've done/bought/had at night?
If it will help town, yes. If it's just saying what your map looks like, that's pointless.
..
:O
I just realized - someone bought a Talisman (I'm not sure who). It's one shot and gives you doublevoting for a day when you use it. Scum could push their way through LyLo with it. If you're town, please say that you have it so we know scum doesn't (I know scum could say so too, oh well).
I know a lot about the map which could help town, I think.
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Sudgy, I guess I'm fine with the ash lynch. I just don't love it very much..
Ash, how sure are you of raerae?
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Do we want to talk about things we've done/bought/had at night?
If it will help town, yes. If it's just saying what your map looks like, that's pointless.
..
:O
I just realized - someone bought a Talisman (I'm not sure who). It's one shot and gives you doublevoting for a day when you use it. Scum could push their way through LyLo with it. If you're town, please say that you have it so we know scum doesn't (I know scum could say so too, oh well).
I know a lot about the map which could help town, I think.
Well then, what is it? If it will help town, claim away.
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Sudgy, I guess I'm fine with the ash lynch. I just don't love it very much..
Ash, how sure are you of raerae?
I feel good about it. I think she fell into the trap of scum all of a sudden building a case on someone when a mislynch seems possible. She just hadn't built a case like that all game (yes, yes, VLA and all that--but when you were around, you weren't building long cases with quotes and such). Obviously I'm going to disagree with her conclusions, but I just think they were stretches anyway. And a lot of it out of the blue (like drawing a Kooshie connection, for example).
I'd be okay with a Jorbles lynch, as well, but prefer raerae.
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Raerae DOES tend to build like that though, it's her way of scumhunting (a very effective one too, if I may add). Amd I thought that the case was well-made, certainly didn't feel forced or anything like that.
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Sudgy, I guess I'm fine with the ash lynch. I just don't love it very much..
What does this mean?
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Do we want to talk about things we've done/bought/had at night?
If it will help town, yes. If it's just saying what your map looks like, that's pointless.
..
:O
I just realized - someone bought a Talisman (I'm not sure who). It's one shot and gives you doublevoting for a day when you use it. Scum could push their way through LyLo with it. If you're town, please say that you have it so we know scum doesn't (I know scum could say so too, oh well).
I know a lot about the map which could help town, I think.
Well then, what is it? If it will help town, claim away.
I bought a TM, so I have the full layout. I've been able to confirm locations/room colors when people map claim. I know the names and locations of a number of rooms in the Bank. I know the contents of some rooms, and some rooms that have nothing in them, and some rooms that do things when you are there.
I can make a giant list, if folks want.
I think this sort of information is useful for town members deciding what they want to do during the night. If I had known some of what I've learned before I learned it, I would have gone in different directions during my exploring, for example. I don't think it helps scum that much for them to know, since they've probably gotten the full layout by now.
I also have one unused card.
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Raerae DOES tend to build like that though, it's her way of scumhunting (a very effective one too, if I may add). Amd I thought that the case was well-made, certainly didn't feel forced or anything like that.
Maybe, but not this game, up to this point. It's like she remembered how she plays as town and went "Crap! Gots to act like that again!"
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This finger pointing is all well and good, ash, but you've been prompted to come up with a case and refuse to do anything but piggy back on things people have said and try to force them to apply to me. If you're truly town try doing something helpful instead of half-butted scumhunting.
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Sudgy, I guess I'm fine with the ash lynch. I just don't love it very much..
What does this mean?
Hedging here. I feel as though ashersky wouldnt go down like this as scum.. but his play doesnt make much sense for a townie. I dont have any clear better alternative, Jorbles, Insomniac or raerae I guess.
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Ashersky, I dont think you should claim that. We dont have that many nights left, not much wandering is going to happen anyways. You'd basically let scum now what powers we might be buying (if any).
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This finger pointing is all well and good, ash, but you've been prompted to come up with a case and refuse to do anything but piggy back on things people have said and try to force them to apply to me. If you're truly town try doing something helpful instead of half-butted scumhunting.
Prompted by whom to come up with a case on whom?
I'm by no means the best scumhunter around. Here are a few thoughts:
1) I just modded Eevee in MXXIV, where he was a fantastic asset to town (see the ending of D3, especially). He hasn't done anything near as useful in this game. So Eevee from this game is not playing like great town!Eevee. I think this bears consideration.
2) My strong town read is based on knowing Jimmmmm is masterful as scum in recognizable ways (to me, I think), and he just hasn't done anything like that this game. He just won again as scum in blitz. Scum!Jimmmmm is actually a better scumhunter than town!Jimmmmm. Now, scum!Jimmmmm actually builds the cases on town, but he actively participates in a way that seems very pro town. He hasn't done that this game, so I continue to feel like he's town. He also has another big town tell that I'm not going to mention, so that I can continue to look for it in future games, that he's using in this one.
3) Jorbles has played like I expect scum!Jorbles to play this entire game. I've had the scum read since D1, and it hasn't waned. It hasn't risen to "OMGHESSCUMMMMMM" level, and he hasn't slipped at all. But I won't be surprised when he flips Mountebank.
4) raerae had the disadvantage of subbing in. Subbing in is hard, and is a huge help/favor to the game. She deserved a pass for the first day or two anyway. Plus, there was RL VLA to deal with. So, trying to take those things into account, my feeling on you the whole game has still been one of "that's not the normal raerae we see in games." Less brash and mean, less case pushing, less of everything. Remember how we went at it on D1 of DS9? That's TOWN!raerae. I've learned from that game, where I highly suspected you. Now, you are nothing like that, so I suspect you.
5) sudgy felt kind of scummy all game, but we've all accepted that his gold key claim has to be true, given no one has countered it. I think one thing we're all forgetting is that one of the town members that is dead bought the key, sudgy is scum, and he's just making up everything he's saying about what the dead players are saying.
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Ashersky, I dont think you should claim that. We dont have that many nights left, not much wandering is going to happen anyways. You'd basically let scum now what powers we might be buying (if any).
What cards are available where can be left out of anything you want me to claim, for sure.
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Good post, thank you ashersky. I actually agree with all of what you said. (The reason for my relative uselessness is the frustrating lack of interactions we've had combined with the fact it's just too long to reread).
You left out Insomniac what do you think of him?
I think I'd rather lynch raerae, Jorbles or Insomniac than ashersky.
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2) My strong town read is based on knowing Jimmmmm is masterful as scum in recognizable ways (to me, I think), and he just hasn't done anything like that this game. He just won again as scum in blitz. Scum!Jimmmmm is actually a better scumhunter than town!Jimmmmm. Now, scum!Jimmmmm actually builds the cases on town, but he actively participates in a way that seems very pro town. He hasn't done that this game, so I continue to feel like he's town. He also has another big town tell that I'm not going to mention, so that I can continue to look for it in future games, that he's using in this one.
That's probably fair, I just have very little idea and not much confidence in my reads when I'm Town. I don't really like that I have a Robz-like meta where I'm more pro-Town as scum. I'll have to work on changing that in my next game. Although I'll be taking some time off Mafia after this game.
5) sudgy felt kind of scummy all game, but we've all accepted that his gold key claim has to be true, given no one has countered it. I think one thing we're all forgetting is that one of the town members that is dead bought the key, sudgy is scum, and he's just making up everything he's saying about what the dead players are saying.
I had the same thought, but I looked back and sudgy first started talking about the Gold Key about 1/6 of the way into Day 1, so that would seem very unlikely unless he somehow knew in advance which Townie was going to get it when. I guess it could explain the xeiron kill? Seems a bit far-fetched though.
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Would others get behind any of my 3 preferred lynches? I imagine ashersky would.
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Good post, thank you ashersky. I actually agree with all of what you said. (The reason for my relative uselessness is the frustrating lack of interactions we've had combined with the fact it's just too long to reread).
You left out Insomniac what do you think of him?
I think I'd rather lynch raerae, Jorbles or Insomniac than ashersky.
I think I'm actually leaning towards agreeing. ash's play today has really annoyed me. I think most of it hasn't been pro-Town at all. But, I don't know. I just don't feel good about his lynch. Of course, if he's scum we'll never let him do this again. I think I prefer Jorbles at this stage.
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Ins has 46 posts total in this game, including pregame. And he isnt known for making very many long posts..
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You left out Insomniac what do you think of him?
I think that's indicative of what I think of Insomniac this game. He has definitely coasted through this game. I take into full account the fact that he doesn't really want to play mafia much right now, and that this game was an exception due to it being Robz's and part-RPG. But still, this is Day 5, there's a much smaller pool of players, and he could definitely be more active now, even without re-reading the 90+ pages we've produced. He could focus on D5 and still offer insight--Insom is smart and good at this game. Town!Insom is pretty good at scumhunting.
The bigger problem with this is I don't really know if it means he's mafia. I mean, the crazy long Robz game had a lurking scum who made it all the way to the end without doing anything. Could that be happening again?
So Insom is sort of invisible in this whole thing, and ends up being left out of my equations. Which I think is ideal for scum, but possible for lurky-just-not-into-it town.
PPE:
Would others get behind any of my 3 preferred lynches? I imagine ashersky would.
Your three are my three preferred.
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It's just, we don't have any useful interactions (well, we can't find them), so it's hard to find a good lynch. How could Insomniac be a bad lynch?
Waaaaaaait. All the off-kooshie wagon people except for Jimmm and Insomniac have flipped town already, right?
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The three of us seem to have reached some sort of agreement. That worries me a little. But if we're all Town and we convince another Townie then that's all we need to do to win. It still worries me though.
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It's just, we don't have any useful interactions (well, we can't find them), so it's hard to find a good lynch. How could Insomniac be a bad lynch?
Waaaaaaait. All the off-kooshie wagon people except for Jimmm and Insomniac have flipped town already, right?
That's correct, and from my point of view it confirms what I've been saying all along, that there was at least one scum bussing. Although sparky/Arch was off-wagon as well I think, but Insom and I are the only ones left.
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Well, you have been my biggest non-sudgy townread all day, and obviously ashersky has to agree.
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It's just, we don't have any useful interactions (well, we can't find them), so it's hard to find a good lynch. How could Insomniac be a bad lynch?
Waaaaaaait. All the off-kooshie wagon people except for Jimmm and Insomniac have flipped town already, right?
That's correct, and from my point of view it confirms what I've been saying all along, that there was at least one scum bussing. Although sparky/Arch was off-wagon as well I think, but Insom and I are the only ones left.
Right, there was one scum caught from there already. Damnit. (If not, my vote would have been on Ins faster than you can say "LDO!")
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LDO?
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Wagons. This bears analyzing.
Vote Count 1.11
mail-mi (1) -- mcmcsalot
liopoil (1) -- yuma
raerae (1) -- Jimm
Kooshie (9) -- liopoil, Eevee, Jorbles, sudgy, Lekkit, mail-mi, ashersky, raerae, xeiron
sudgy (1) -- Insomniac
Eevee (1) -- Ozle
Not Voting (2) -- sparky5856, Kooshie
Vote Count 2.18
Ozle (2) -- ashersky, Eevee
mail-mi (8) -- Jimm, liopoil, Lekkit, Archetype, raerae, yuma, Ozle, mail-mi
Insomniac (2) -- Jorbles, sudgy
Jimm (1) -- mcmcsalot
mcmcsalot (1) -- Insomniac
Vote Count 3.9
Archetype (2) -- Lekkit, mcmcsalot
Lekkit (7) -- Archetype, raerae, Jimm, sudgy, Jorbles, yuma, ashersky
ashersky (1) -- Insomniac
mcmcsalot (1) -- Eevee
Not Voting (1) -- Ozle
Vote Count 4.5
ashersky (1) -- ashersky
Archetype (6) -- yuma, sudgy, raerae, Eeevee, Jimm, Archetype
Not Voting (3) -- Ozle, Insomniac, Jorbles
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I think raerae is in the "scummier" position on Kooshie's wagon.
Insomniac was on someone we think is obvtown now.
Jimmmmm was voting for someone I think is possible scum.
Based on D1 wagons, I'd say raerae is the lynch.
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Jimmmmm was voting for someone I think is possible scum.
That was a silly joke vote, I can't take credit for that.
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Jimmmmm was voting for someone I think is possible scum.
That was a silly joke vote, I can't take credit for that.
Oh right, she had just replaced in.
Does that make a bus more or less likely?
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LDO?
Lol, duh, obvious.
There were 6 people off the kooshie wagon, 3 of them have flipped town, 1 scum and 2 are yet to flip anything. Hmm. I think I might actually be warming up to an Insomniac lynch, or do we think 2 scum bussed Kooshie?
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LDO?
Lol, duh, obvious.
There were 6 people off the kooshie wagon, 3 of them have flipped town, 1 scum and 2 are yet to flip anything. Hmm. I think I might actually be warming up to an Insomniac lynch, or do we think 2 scum bussed Kooshie?
I think two scum bus kooshie more often than two stay off the wagon.
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LDO?
Lol, duh, obvious.
There were 6 people off the kooshie wagon, 3 of them have flipped town, 1 scum and 2 are yet to flip anything. Hmm. I think I might actually be warming up to an Insomniac lynch, or do we think 2 scum bussed Kooshie?
I think two scum bus kooshie more often than two stay off the wagon.
And we both think Jimmm is town, so Insomniac?
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LDO?
Lol, duh, obvious.
There were 6 people off the kooshie wagon, 3 of them have flipped town, 1 scum and 2 are yet to flip anything. Hmm. I think I might actually be warming up to an Insomniac lynch, or do we think 2 scum bussed Kooshie?
I think two scum bus kooshie more often than two stay off the wagon.
And we both think Jimmm is town, so Insomniac?
Out of the two remaining off-wagon people that are alive, yes.
Here's something though: everyone that has died from the Kooshie wagon has been town. We mislynched two, and scum actively decided to kill 2. Meanwhile, they reduced the off-wagon pool down to two people from five non-scum through NKs.
If you are taking into account what group you are in as scum, which group do you decide to kill from?
Can someone do possible remaining pairs?
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I'm too confused..
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All possible combos. Now start striking off unlikely ones.
ashersky - Eevee
ashersky - Insomniac
ashersky - Jimmmmm
ashersky - Jorbles
ashersky - raerae
ashersky - sudgy
Eevee - Insomniac
Eevee - Jimmmmm
Eevee - Jorbles
Eevee - raerae
Eevee - sudgy
Insomniac - Jimmmmm
Insomniac - Jorbles
Insomniac - raerae
Insomniac - sudgy
Jimmmmm - Jorbles
Jimmmmm - raerae
Jimmmmm - sudgy
Jorbles - raerae
Jorbles - sudgy
raerae - sudgy
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Kooshie has been quieter than I would normally expect but she hasn't done anything I find particularly offensive. I don't know if I'd call this scummy but I do find it odd so I've got my eye on her.
Kooshie, have you actually given reads yet?
Whoops, just saw ash's quote of kooshie's reads. Ignore my previous post and I'll go read that more carefully.
I have to agree with Ash and Lio, that list is shady. The other thing that's super off to me is the mail-mi read. Mail-mi is fitting his meta and I see no reason to point fingers at it yet. I am concerned that lio may be bussing but I'm less convinced of his scumitude now.
I'll Unvote for now.
Does anybody object to me putting Kooshie at L-1?
Vote: Kooshie
This was everything that raerae said about Kooshie on Day 1. Note that Kooshie was on L-2 before the second quote. "I've got my eye on her" is definitely something I can see scum saying early on about a teammate. I'm not sure on whether this makes raerae scummy, but I don't think she gets a lot of credit for being on the Kooshie wagon.
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Kooshie has been quieter than I would normally expect but she hasn't done anything I find particularly offensive. I don't know if I'd call this scummy but I do find it odd so I've got my eye on her.
Kooshie, have you actually given reads yet?
Whoops, just saw ash's quote of kooshie's reads. Ignore my previous post and I'll go read that more carefully.
I have to agree with Ash and Lio, that list is shady. The other thing that's super off to me is the mail-mi read. Mail-mi is fitting his meta and I see no reason to point fingers at it yet. I am concerned that lio may be bussing but I'm less convinced of his scumitude now.
I'll Unvote for now.
Does anybody object to me putting Kooshie at L-1?
Vote: Kooshie
This was everything that raerae said about Kooshie on Day 1. Note that Kooshie was on L-2 before the second quote. "I've got my eye on her" is definitely something I can see scum saying early on about a teammate. I'm not sure on whether this makes raerae scummy, but I don't think she gets a lot of credit for being on the Kooshie wagon.
Compare that interaction with how you would expect town!raerae to build a case. I don't think it matches up. Now, it was D1 and she replaced in, so there's some leeway there. But this looks like a series of posts that denote bussing.
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On the other hand she did miss Kooshie giving reads. I dont think people usually miss their scumbuddies posts, but could happen or could be fake, obviously.
The scum pair list is sad, how can we eliminate anything but the ones where we are ourself?
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Here's something though: everyone that has died from the Kooshie wagon has been town. We mislynched two, and scum actively decided to kill 2. Meanwhile, they reduced the off-wagon pool down to two people from five non-scum through NKs.
If you are taking into account what group you are in as scum, which group do you decide to kill from?
Well, Ozle doesn't count. They've killed 2 on and 2 off, but the 2 off have been more significant since regardless there were less Townies off than on. So I guess your point is if I and/or Insom were scum we probably wouldn't've been PoEing down to us like that.
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All possible combos. Now start striking off unlikely ones.
ashersky - Eevee
ashersky - Insomniac
ashersky - Jimmmmm
ashersky - Jorbles
ashersky - raerae
ashersky - sudgy
Eevee - Insomniac
Eevee - Jimmmmm
Eevee - Jorbles
Eevee - raerae
Eevee - sudgy
Insomniac - Jimmmmm
Insomniac - Jorbles
Insomniac - raerae
Insomniac - sudgy
Jimmmmm - Jorbles
Jimmmmm - raerae
Jimmmmm - sudgy
Jorbles - raerae
Jorbles - sudgy
raerae - sudgy
Are we really still looking at sudgy? He was talking about the key Day 1. I just don't see a way for him to be confident that was going to work.
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Here's something though: everyone that has died from the Kooshie wagon has been town. We mislynched two, and scum actively decided to kill 2. Meanwhile, they reduced the off-wagon pool down to two people from five non-scum through NKs.
If you are taking into account what group you are in as scum, which group do you decide to kill from?
Well, Ozle doesn't count. They've killed 2 on and 2 off, but the 2 off have been more significant since regardless there were less Townies off than on. So I guess your point is if I and/or Insom were scum we probably wouldn't've been PoEing down to us like that.
Had you realized that anyways. It's just one wagon.
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Sorry, is that a question? I'd realised Insom and I were the last two off the Kooshie wagon, but I hadn't really thought about that in relation to nightkills and scum being more likely to eliminate from the group of players they're not in.
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Sorry, is that a question? I'd realised Insom and I were the last two off the Kooshie wagon, but I hadn't really thought about that in relation to nightkills and scum being more likely to eliminate from the group of players they're not in.
I mean while an ok point, I dont think that completely clears the two of you (namely Insomniac in this case).
But okay, we still see eye-to-eye. So who to lynch? Really freaking important to hit scum..
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ashersky - Eevee
ashersky - Insomniac
ashersky - Jorbles
ashersky - raerae
Eevee - Insomniac
Eevee - Jorbles
Eevee - raerae
Insomniac - Jorbles
Insomniac - raerae
Jorbles - raerae
Well here's the list from my point of view. Until we have a sensible explanation for how scum sudgy could have known about the key from Day 1, I'm treating him as an IC.
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Sorry, is that a question? I'd realised Insom and I were the last two off the Kooshie wagon, but I hadn't really thought about that in relation to nightkills and scum being more likely to eliminate from the group of players they're not in.
That's why I brought it up. If Insom was scum paying good attention to the game (I think whatever his alignment, he isn't paying attention), I don't see him (or Jimmmmm) POEing themselves into this situation, even not knowing they were going to lose Ozle as a possible mislynch.
So I think on-wagon is a better option, ironically, since we still haven't caught the busser, of which there must be at least one.
Are we really still looking at sudgy? He was talking about the key Day 1. I just don't see a way for him to be confident that was going to work.
Don't think so, but I was just being complete in my list. I included myself, even though I know (even if others don't) that they aren't valid.
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I mean while an ok point, I dont think that completely clears the two of you (namely Insomniac in this case).
No of course not. The two off-wagoners they've killed are yuma and mcmc. It's quite possible they killed yuma just for being yuma. And they may have had some good reason for killing mcmc.
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Eevee - Insomniac
Eevee - Jimmmmm
Eevee - Jorbles
Eevee - raerae
Insomniac - Jimmmmm
Insomniac - Jorbles
Insomniac - raerae
Jimmmmm - Jorbles
Jimmmmm - raerae
Jorbles - raerae
All the possibles from my perspective are above. All the possibles in order of possibility from my perspective are below (spaces denote a jump in suspicion):
Jorbles - raerae
Insomniac - raerae
Insomniac - Jorbles
Eevee - raerae
Eevee - Jorbles
Eevee - Insomniac
Insomniac - Jimmmmm
Jimmmmm - Jorbles
Jimmmmm - raerae
Eevee - Jimmmmm
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ashersky - Eevee
ashersky - Insomniac
ashersky - Jorbles
ashersky - raerae
Eevee - Insomniac
Eevee - Jorbles
Eevee - raerae
Insomniac - Jorbles
Insomniac - raerae
Jorbles - raerae
Well here's the list from my point of view. Until we have a sensible explanation for how scum sudgy could have known about the key from Day 1, I'm treating him as an IC.
I'm fine with accepting the premise of you being town for today, so from my perspective:
ashersky - Insomniac
ashersky - Jorbles
ashersky - raerae
Insomniac - Jorbles
Insomniac - raerae
Jorbles - raerae
Not sure if this really gets us anywhere..
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I have to head off. Soft deadline's in a couple of hours, I know. I should be able to check in before then. It'd be great if you could do some work on raerae and Jorbles to try to figure out who's the better lynch.
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I'm fine with accepting the premise of you being town for today, so from my perspective:
ashersky - Insomniac
ashersky - Jorbles
ashersky - raerae
Insomniac - Jorbles
Insomniac - raerae
Jorbles - raerae
Not sure if this really gets us anywhere..
Well if the three of us are in some sort of agreement, then for the moment we're looking at:
Insomniac - Jorbles
Insomniac - raerae
Jorbles - raerae
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I've got to get up in 6 hours, I should start going to sleep soon too. Jimmm, just really quick, out of Jorbles, raerae and Insomniac, what are your preferences?
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I'm fine with accepting the premise of you being town for today, so from my perspective:
ashersky - Insomniac
ashersky - Jorbles
ashersky - raerae
Insomniac - Jorbles
Insomniac - raerae
Jorbles - raerae
Not sure if this really gets us anywhere..
Well if the three of us are in some sort of agreement, then for the moment we're looking at:
Insomniac - Jorbles
Insomniac - raerae
Jorbles - raerae
Which still hasnt gotten us any closer as those are just the three we are trying to make a decision of.
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I've got to get up in 6 hours, I should start going to sleep soon too. Jimmm, just really quick, out of Jorbles, raerae and Insomniac, what are your preferences?
raerae is my preference.
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Hmm, I recall you suggesting Jorbles earlier, which makes this feel less like scum leading me. I'm still sort of baffled as to why Insomniac isn't getting more suspicions, but okay. I guess we should absolutely hear from sudgy and the suspects too before deciding anything. Pretty hard soft deadline tomorrow night? Even a bit earlier is fine for me, it's very late in Finland. Or what do you think? Should we just go ahead now? I'm really worried the possible scum in us winds up making the actual decision..
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Hmm, I recall you suggesting Jorbles earlier, which makes this feel less like scum leading me. I'm still sort of baffled as to why Insomniac isn't getting more suspicions, but okay. I guess we should absolutely hear from sudgy and the suspects too before deciding anything. Pretty hard soft deadline tomorrow night? Even a bit earlier is fine for me, it's very late in Finland. Or what do you think? Should we just go ahead now? I'm really worried the possible scum in us winds up making the actual decision..
I think its important for everyone to continue to weigh in. No matter if we lynch correctly or not, D6 will be key, and we'll want interactions from today to analyze.
Insomniac is suspicious, don't get me wrong. But here's why lurking is so great for scum -- scummy play/posts from others end up being better cases to act on.
Even with the three of us voting, we're not getting a lynch through without someone. I don't know that there's harm in getting two votes or even L-1 on someone, given a quickhammer by scum is a terrible idea.
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Here's my order of preferred lynches:
Ash (you're still up here but have gone down a tiny bit)
Insom (way too lurky)
raerae (doesn't seem like as I've seen before)
Jorbles (not as much)
Everyone else
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Soft Deadline is in almost an hour. Vote: Insomniac seems to be one of the most viable options at the moment.
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vote: Insomniac
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We never got an answer on the platinum key, right?
Also, can we get a vote count?
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We never got an answer on the platinum key, right?
Also, can we get a vote count?
Or the talisman.
I think me and Eevee are voting for Insom, you are voting for raerae, and raerae is voting for you.
If you want to lynch Insom, could you vote for him?
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Vote Count 5.2
ashersky (1) -- raerae
raerae (1) -- ashersky
insomniac (2) -- sudgy, Eevee
Not Voting (6) -- Insomniac, Jorbles, Jimm
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. There are 16 days left. Deadline is May 18th at 11:00 AM.
I think the above is correct.
We have around 16 days left...are we sure we need to end the day right away? We have what, 3 game days more max? 5 days a day would still give us another day for responses today...
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If you want to lynch Insom, could you vote for him?
I'm around for awhile longer. I would be willing to lynch Insom, as I think if there is scum who didn't bus that is still alive it is him. I still prefer raerae.
Sudgy, do you have some townish feelings on raerae to share?
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Vote Count 5.2
ashersky (1) -- raerae
raerae (1) -- ashersky
insomniac (2) -- sudgy, Eevee
Not Voting (6) -- Insomniac, Jorbles, Jimm
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. There are 16 days left. Deadline is May 18th at 11:00 AM.
I think the above is correct.
We have around 16 days left...are we sure we need to end the day right away? We have what, 3 game days more max? 5 days a day would still give us another day for responses today...
Oh, I didn't think about that. I was still thinking we were crunched for time... :P
But, we don't need to use up all of our time. If we think we have a good lynch, why not do it?
Also, something else I was thinking of: Why would scum not kill an IC? Either they had some reason to kill someone else, or they didn't think I was an IC. Who hadn't thought I was an IC until today? Ash. We don't have to lynch him now, but just keep this in mind.
PPE: I don't have some townish feelings on raerae.
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Vote: raerae
I think I prefer her to ash, and lynching me is the worst idea ever.
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Vote Count
ashersky (1) -- raerae
raerae (2) -- ashersky, Insomniac
insomniac (2) -- sudgy, Eevee
Not Voting (2) -- Jorbles, Jimm
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. There are 16 days left. Deadline is May 18th at 11:00 AM.
Up-to-date I believe.
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So we have two votes on Ash, two votes on Insom, and two votes on me, right? What the hell is going on?
Ash, why only claim TM now? When did you buy it? Where was it? Can/will anybody confirm his claim AFTER it is made?
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So we have two votes on Ash, two votes on Insom, and two votes on me, right? What the hell is going on?
Ash, why only claim TM now? When did you buy it? Where was it? Can/will anybody confirm his claim AFTER it is made?
I bought it N3. I did not buy the TM that was mentioned by others; it was in a different room. How can someone confirm my claim that I bought a TM? I guess if you entered that room after I did, you'd see it used to be there. How much of the map do you want claimed? Consensus seemed to be not too much.
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As far as the suspicion on me goes, that's just crap. Honestly, when I am a sassy bitch you find me scummy for it so I can't f-ing win with you people. If I am myself, I get lynched right away or left alive so scum can set me up for a mislynch late in the game. If I'm not myself, I get lynched for not being sassy/mean enough. By the way, I resent the term "mean". This is, admittedly, my WORST showing since DS9. I believe, and I could be wrong here, but I believe this is only the 2nd and 3rd time I've been on a mislynch (the first being in DS9) and that is beyond embarrassing. I'm here now, Ash is weaseling his way out of this lynch, and I won't go down without a fight.
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By the way, I resent the term "mean".
Sorry if I offended you with the word mean. You are modding Mean Girls, though. At any rate, I didn't mean any offense, and was describing an online persona within mafia games.
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Vote Count 5.3
ashersky (1) -- raerae
raerae (2) -- ashersky, Insomniac
Insomniac (2) -- sudgy, Eevee
Not Voting (2) -- Jorbles, Jimm
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. There are 16 days left. Deadline is May 18th at 11:00 AM.
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This finger pointing is all well and good, ash, but you've been prompted to come up with a case and refuse to do anything but piggy back on things people have said and try to force them to apply to me. If you're truly town try doing something helpful instead of half-butted scumhunting.
Prompted by whom to come up with a case on whom?
OK, so Jimmmm didn't technically say the word "case" but I think it's safe to assume that's what he was looking for...
ash, are you deliberately being unhelpful? You say you're convinced raerae is scum, but won't say why, then you imply that she's working extra hard to make you look scummy, but again won't give details.
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Vote: raerae
I think I prefer her to ash, and lynching me is the worst idea ever.
Why?
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So we have two votes on Ash, two votes on Insom, and two votes on me, right? What the hell is going on?
Ash, why only claim TM now? When did you buy it? Where was it? Can/will anybody confirm his claim AFTER it is made?
I bought it N3. I did not buy the TM that was mentioned by others; it was in a different room. How can someone confirm my claim that I bought a TM? I guess if you entered that room after I did, you'd see it used to be there. How much of the map do you want claimed? Consensus seemed to be not too much.
Not the same one? That seems like an odd thing for Robz to have two of... I haven't seen any duplicate items in my wanderings but I won't rule it out if others have.
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This finger pointing is all well and good, ash, but you've been prompted to come up with a case and refuse to do anything but piggy back on things people have said and try to force them to apply to me. If you're truly town try doing something helpful instead of half-butted scumhunting.
Prompted by whom to come up with a case on whom?
OK, so Jimmmm didn't technically say the word "case" but I think it's safe to assume that's what he was looking for...
ash, are you deliberately being unhelpful? You say you're convinced raerae is scum, but won't say why, then you imply that she's working extra hard to make you look scummy, but again won't give details.
I responded to one of the other of those quotes by explaining why I thought you were "working extra hard."
My case on you has been spread out over multiple posts, instead of one post like yours. It deals with your voting history, the way you have been different than the town raerae we all know, and the pushing of what I see as a bad case on me. I think others agree to one degree or another on different parts of that, but especially your voting line. Jimmmmmm pointed out your interactions with Kooshie much the same way you did with mine. Do you refute what Jimmmmm says?
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So we have two votes on Ash, two votes on Insom, and two votes on me, right? What the hell is going on?
Ash, why only claim TM now? When did you buy it? Where was it? Can/will anybody confirm his claim AFTER it is made?
I bought it N3. I did not buy the TM that was mentioned by others; it was in a different room. How can someone confirm my claim that I bought a TM? I guess if you entered that room after I did, you'd see it used to be there. How much of the map do you want claimed? Consensus seemed to be not too much.
Not the same one? That seems like an odd thing for Robz to have two of... I haven't seen any duplicate items in my wanderings but I won't rule it out if others have.
TM makes some sense to be duplicated, given its IRL card. There are multiples of at least one other card, just going by what I've seen and others have claimed.
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My preference would be Jorbles, then Insom or raerae, then ash.
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This finger pointing is all well and good, ash, but you've been prompted to come up with a case and refuse to do anything but piggy back on things people have said and try to force them to apply to me. If you're truly town try doing something helpful instead of half-butted scumhunting.
Prompted by whom to come up with a case on whom?
OK, so Jimmmm didn't technically say the word "case" but I think it's safe to assume that's what he was looking for...
ash, are you deliberately being unhelpful? You say you're convinced raerae is scum, but won't say why, then you imply that she's working extra hard to make you look scummy, but again won't give details.
I responded to one of the other of those quotes by explaining why I thought you were "working extra hard."
My case on you has been spread out over multiple posts, instead of one post like yours. It deals with your voting history, the way you have been different than the town raerae we all know, and the pushing of what I see as a bad case on me. I think others agree to one degree or another on different parts of that, but especially your voting line. Jimmmmmm pointed out your interactions with Kooshie much the same way you did with mine. Do you refute what Jimmmmm says?
Jimmmmmm did quote me correctly, if that's what you're asking. Below is what he said in regards to those posts and no, I don't refute anything because they are facts and quotes. Mcmc asked me about Kooshie before I'd done a full reread (Day1, if you don't remember) so yeah, when I was rereading her UP TO THAT POINT, she was quieter than I'd expect but certainly nothing she'd done, short of lurking, was scummy then. It's well documented that I give lurkers a lot of leeway, right or wrong it's what I do, so AT THAT POINT, that was all she'd done. She did get scummier and her defense was a joke so yeah, I did vote for somebody I found scummy and yeah, I was one of the later votes but, guess what, somebody always has to be last. That doesn't make me her partner, that makes me a fool for not being harder on lurkers.
This was everything that raerae said about Kooshie on Day 1. Note that Kooshie was on L-2 before the second quote. "I've got my eye on her" is definitely something I can see scum saying early on about a teammate. I'm not sure on whether this makes raerae scummy, but I don't think she gets a lot of credit for being on the Kooshie wagon.
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My preference would be Jorbles, then Insom or raerae, then ash.
Do you think there could be two Treasure Maps?
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My preference would be Jorbles, then Insom or raerae, then ash.
Do you think there could be two Treasure Maps?
Sorry, missed that the first time around. Um, I think it's possible. I can't remember what exactly, but I recall someone else mentioning seeing a duplicate of something I'd seen. I doubt scum ash would make it up.
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This finger pointing is all well and good, ash, but you've been prompted to come up with a case and refuse to do anything but piggy back on things people have said and try to force them to apply to me. If you're truly town try doing something helpful instead of half-butted scumhunting.
Prompted by whom to come up with a case on whom?
OK, so Jimmmm didn't technically say the word "case" but I think it's safe to assume that's what he was looking for...
ash, are you deliberately being unhelpful? You say you're convinced raerae is scum, but won't say why, then you imply that she's working extra hard to make you look scummy, but again won't give details.
I responded to one of the other of those quotes by explaining why I thought you were "working extra hard."
My case on you has been spread out over multiple posts, instead of one post like yours. It deals with your voting history, the way you have been different than the town raerae we all know, and the pushing of what I see as a bad case on me. I think others agree to one degree or another on different parts of that, but especially your voting line. Jimmmmmm pointed out your interactions with Kooshie much the same way you did with mine. Do you refute what Jimmmmm says?
Bah!! No you didn't! You used a quote that somebody else had posted referencing SOMETHING ELSE to "show" why I was being scummy. You're "case" has been a sad compilation of quotes from OTHER people referring to OTHER things. You have just collected a grab bag of quotes to form some loose argument against me.
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Bah!! No you didn't! You used a quote that somebody else had posted referencing SOMETHING ELSE to "show" why I was being scummy. You're "case" has been a sad compilation of quotes from OTHER people referring to OTHER things. You have just collected a grab bag of quotes to form some loose argument against me.
Maybe you missed these, but here. First time I was explaining what I saw wrong with your case:
Ash, I promised to come in with the results of a reread and you call you me scummy but didn't say why. I post said results and you call me scummy and the best reason you can come up with is reposting something that came after I said I'd post reread results. Is there anything I could do that you wouldn't call scummy right now?
This post isn't scummy. There's plenty you can do that isn't scummy.
I think my point was lost in the way I decided to present it.
When you first posted that you "noticed" something about me in relation to Arch and Kooshie, I immediately got the sense that you were scum deciding to help push my mislynch through. But I didn't want to write it right then, because it may have affected what you actually put together, so I was vague.
Then, there was the unrelated discussion of assigning re-reads, and the possible negatives of that plan. When Jorbles made his point about forced scum reads, he hit exactly on something I had already thought about your post. So I boldedly agreed.
Then you came in with, what seems to me, a very weak case on me. So I pointed out what had already been said that I already agreed with.
And then a direct response to the working hard thing:
raerae's post is longer than average sure, but it's pretty short for a case. In what sense is she "working extra hard"?
By presenting contradicting quotes (but including only links, which most folks won't click) that don't actually contradict each other, for one.
Digging up miniscule quotes with little context or substance to make me look scummy. Context is important--why did someone say something at a certain time can change the meaning of a line or word immensely.
Using personality traits and turning them into scum traits (hypocrite, etc.).
Neither of those "used a quote that somebody else had posted referencing SOMETHING ELSE to "show" why [you were] being scummy."
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I know we've passed the soft deadline, but I think we can do better than just plonking our votes on whoever happens to have the biggest wagon. I think all this scrambling is helping. Maybe. I'll be back later to reassess and figure out where best to put my vote.
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I'll try to compile preferred lynch lists here (only top 3)
ashersky: raerae, Jorbles/Insomniac
Eevee: Insomniac, ?, ?
Insomniac: raerae, ashersky
Jimmmmm: Jorbles, Insomniac/raerae
Jorbles: ?, ?, ?
raerae: ashersky, ?, ?
sudgy: ashersky, Insomniac, raerae
If you are voting someone, I put that person as your #1. Otherwise, I went off recent posts. If two people seemed tied, I used the / to denote that.
Off the table completely for D5 look like Eevee, Jimmmmm, and sudgy. Contenders for lynch are raerae, ashersky, Insomniac, and Jorbles.
All subject to change pending more folks providing Top 3 lists.
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Ins, Jorbles or raerae for me, did you like not read the discussion we were having yesterday with Jimmm?
Ins, that's not a very good defense. like, objectively I cant understand why you'd be a bad lynch ever really.. I asked this twice earlier today, I don't think you ever gave an answer.
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I'll try to compile preferred lynch lists here (only top 3)
ashersky: raerae, Jorbles/Insomniac
Eevee: Insomniac, Jorbles, raerae
Insomniac: raerae, ashersky
Jimmmmm: Jorbles, Insomniac/raerae
Jorbles: ?, ?, ?
raerae: ashersky, ?, ?
sudgy: ashersky, Insomniac, raerae
If you are voting someone, I put that person as your #1. Otherwise, I went off recent posts. If two people seemed tied, I used the / to denote that.
Off the table completely for D5 look like Eevee, Jimmmmm, and sudgy. Contenders for lynch are raerae, ashersky, Insomniac, and Jorbles.
All subject to change pending more folks providing Top 3 lists.
Updated. I knew your three, just not the order for sure.
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Oh that's more reasonable, considering I don't know the order exactly either. :)
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Oh that's more reasonable, considering I don't know the order exactly either. :)
Looking at the breakdown, assuming Jorbles doesn't list himself, it looks like raerae or insomniac, as they are on everyone's lists.
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Oh that's more reasonable, considering I don't know the order exactly either. :)
Looking at the breakdown, assuming Jorbles doesn't list himself, it looks like raerae or insomniac, as they are on everyone's lists.
So who's bussing?
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Oh that's more reasonable, considering I don't know the order exactly either. :)
Looking at the breakdown, assuming Jorbles doesn't list himself, it looks like raerae or insomniac, as they are on everyone's lists.
So who's bussing?
If we knew that, we'd know who's mafia, wouldn't we?
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Oh that's more reasonable, considering I don't know the order exactly either. :)
Looking at the breakdown, assuming Jorbles doesn't list himself, it looks like raerae or insomniac, as they are on everyone's lists.
So who's bussing?
If we knew that, we'd know who's mafia, wouldn't we?
Well yeah. I guess my point was should it concern us that no one else seems to have a problem with either of those lynches?
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Oh that's more reasonable, considering I don't know the order exactly either. :)
Looking at the breakdown, assuming Jorbles doesn't list himself, it looks like raerae or insomniac, as they are on everyone's lists.
So who's bussing?
If we knew that, we'd know who's mafia, wouldn't we?
If I absolutely had to guess, I'd say raerae is bussing Insomniac.
My reasoning there has more to do with Insomniac. He's come in with one post all day, and it was to say he preferred raerae to me. Nothing else whatsoever, not even a smidgen of a case to back it up. He listed no other suspect. That's just a stupid way to bus, if you ask me. We're not giving him cred for it tomorrow, probably, and it's not helping his team to bus like that.
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Oh that's more reasonable, considering I don't know the order exactly either. :)
Looking at the breakdown, assuming Jorbles doesn't list himself, it looks like raerae or insomniac, as they are on everyone's lists.
So who's bussing?
If we knew that, we'd know who's mafia, wouldn't we?
If I absolutely had to guess, I'd say raerae is bussing Insomniac.
My reasoning there has more to do with Insomniac. He's come in with one post all day, and it was to say he preferred raerae to me. Nothing else whatsoever, not even a smidgen of a case to back it up. He listed no other suspect. That's just a stupid way to bus, if you ask me. We're not giving him cred for it tomorrow, probably, and it's not helping his team to bus like that.
Rereading that, it makes no sense.
I meant it to say that I think Insomniac voting raerae is not a bus. Separately, I think raerae voting for Insom would be bussing. Raerae is currently voting for me.
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Oh that's more reasonable, considering I don't know the order exactly either. :)
Looking at the breakdown, assuming Jorbles doesn't list himself, it looks like raerae or insomniac, as they are on everyone's lists.
So who's bussing?
If we knew that, we'd know who's mafia, wouldn't we?
Well yeah. I guess my point was should it concern us that no one else seems to have a problem with either of those lynches?
You mean just like before I deflected, everyone was behind the ashersky lynch?
I do share your concern in that I too am worried that mafia will influence the decision of which of these three to lynch. I do think it's the best subset to look at though. Not convinced all the mafia are there, but I think it's our best bet.
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Oh that's more reasonable, considering I don't know the order exactly either. :)
Looking at the breakdown, assuming Jorbles doesn't list himself, it looks like raerae or insomniac, as they are on everyone's lists.
So who's bussing?
If we knew that, we'd know who's mafia, wouldn't we?
If I absolutely had to guess, I'd say raerae is bussing Insomniac.
My reasoning there has more to do with Insomniac. He's come in with one post all day, and it was to say he preferred raerae to me. Nothing else whatsoever, not even a smidgen of a case to back it up. He listed no other suspect. That's just a stupid way to bus, if you ask me. We're not giving him cred for it tomorrow, probably, and it's not helping his team to bus like that.
Rereading that, it makes no sense.
I meant it to say that I think Insomniac voting raerae is not a bus. Separately, I think raerae voting for Insom would be bussing. Raerae is currently voting for me.
That still makes no sense. It's not a one-way street, they are both on the same team or not.
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Oh that's more reasonable, considering I don't know the order exactly either. :)
Looking at the breakdown, assuming Jorbles doesn't list himself, it looks like raerae or insomniac, as they are on everyone's lists.
So who's bussing?
If we knew that, we'd know who's mafia, wouldn't we?
If I absolutely had to guess, I'd say raerae is bussing Insomniac.
My reasoning there has more to do with Insomniac. He's come in with one post all day, and it was to say he preferred raerae to me. Nothing else whatsoever, not even a smidgen of a case to back it up. He listed no other suspect. That's just a stupid way to bus, if you ask me. We're not giving him cred for it tomorrow, probably, and it's not helping his team to bus like that.
Rereading that, it makes no sense.
I meant it to say that I think Insomniac voting raerae is not a bus. Separately, I think raerae voting for Insom would be bussing. Raerae is currently voting for me.
That still makes no sense. It's not a one-way street, they are both on the same team or not.
My point is that I don't think Insomniac is bussing based on his behavior. Raerae is voting me, so she obviously is NOT bussing. Also, she (along with Jorbles) has yet to give a top three.
If raerae switches to Insom, it would be out of desperation, and I think she would bus there.
Given I think the remaining scum is raerae and Jorbles, I don't think anyone is bussing at this point. It's too risky anyway.
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Oh that's more reasonable, considering I don't know the order exactly either. :)
Looking at the breakdown, assuming Jorbles doesn't list himself, it looks like raerae or insomniac, as they are on everyone's lists.
So who's bussing?
If we knew that, we'd know who's mafia, wouldn't we?
If I absolutely had to guess, I'd say raerae is bussing Insomniac.
My reasoning there has more to do with Insomniac. He's come in with one post all day, and it was to say he preferred raerae to me. Nothing else whatsoever, not even a smidgen of a case to back it up. He listed no other suspect. That's just a stupid way to bus, if you ask me. We're not giving him cred for it tomorrow, probably, and it's not helping his team to bus like that.
Rereading that, it makes no sense.
I meant it to say that I think Insomniac voting raerae is not a bus. Separately, I think raerae voting for Insom would be bussing. Raerae is currently voting for me.
That still makes no sense. It's not a one-way street, they are both on the same team or not.
My point is that I don't think Insomniac is bussing based on his behavior. Raerae is voting me, so she obviously is NOT bussing. Also, she (along with Jorbles) has yet to give a top three.
If raerae switches to Insom, it would be out of desperation, and I think she would bus there.
Given I think the remaining scum is raerae and Jorbles, I don't think anyone is bussing at this point. It's too risky anyway.
So, I'm confused, is Jorbles or Insom my partner?
Seriously, you guys, do not let Ash get away with this. Look at today. Look at past days. Ash has spent time throwing accusations to see what sticks and has spent zero time rereading and forming anything that remotely looks like a case. He follows whatever seems to be gain speed and is allowed to do so. Do not let this happen.
(Also, posted in v/la but unavailable the rest of the day.)
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Okay, we seem to have our first solid interaction. Am I wrong to think it's very likely either raerae or ashersky is mafia?
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Okay, we seem to have our first solid interaction. Am I wrong to think it's very likely either raerae or ashersky is mafia?
I think they're unlikely to both be Mafia.
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Online now, just catching up.
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Okay, we seem to have our first solid interaction. Am I wrong to think it's very likely either raerae or ashersky is mafia?
I think they're unlikely to both be Mafia.
I do agree, but that wasn't the question.
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Okay, as much as I dislike the way Insomniac has been lurking I don't think he's scum. I'm really not comfortable with that lynch.
The more I read this game the more I think that ashersky is scum. He is definitely my top lynch. Scum could have bought the treasure map and just been sitting on the knowledge planning to claim it to make themselves look townie at a point in the game when it's so far along that it won't really be a huge advantage to give town the information especially if it decides a lynch.
My other two lynches are based on Archetype's Oracle claim. I really think, based on having played scum with him before, that he would have tried to clear one of his team mates. This means that I think that 1, but not both of Jimmmm and raerae are scum.
So looking at their interactions with ashersky today:
raerae, if on a team with ashersky, has bused him hard. If they were on a team together this would mean she is trying to solo it. This is I guess possible. I could see raerae doing that, but it doesn't seem likely.
Jimmm today hasn't really engaged with ashersky, or at least not in any meaningful ways and certainly no disagreement. This is how I imagine scum would play it if their partner was on the line. Anyhow ash is my preferred lynch. So vote: ashersky.
@Eevee, I am very concerned that you are getting your vote heavily influenced by my top two scum reads.
I think I've made it clear who my top pair is, but I'll do the pairs list thing in a second.
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Okay discounting myself and sudgy as being completely impossible and then substracting people whose interactions I think make it impossible for them to be on a team together I am left with the following, I've ordered them from most likely scum pairings to least likely ones.
Most likely:
ashersky - Jimmmmm
Less likely, but plausible:
ashersky - Eevee
Eevee - Jimmmmm
Eevee - raerae
Unlikely, but not outside the realm of possibility:
ashersky - raerae
Insomniac - Jimmmmm
Insomniac - raerae
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Why couldnt Insomniac be scum? You suspect me more than him?
Jimm is the towniest of you lot to me, but I am worried scum will lead me to pick wrong out of you three.
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Why couldnt Insomniac be scum?
On Insomniac:
I think scum would keep him in the game precisely because he's been lurky. He's someone they can always try to divert our attention to when they get in trouble. I think they are doing that right now. On top of that Insomniac's most memorable (in my mind) contribution to the game has been his suspicion of ash (who I am more and more confident is scum). This makes me think it unlikely that he'd be busing his partner this much. I think it's more likely that his lurking is a tell that he's town, a town player who is a little disinterested and burned out on mafia. If he were scum he'd be around more. I know we like to think that Insomniac is really smart and just taking advantage of his meta, but I think it's more likely that he is what he seems to be.
... You suspect me more than him?
I don't really think you're scum, but I'm saying it's possible. You're talented enough to have me fooled so I'm trying to keep my eyes open there. I don't think raerae could be partners with Jimmmm, and I think it's unlikely she's partners with ashersky. I could see you being partners with ashersky, your actions certainly haven't ruled it out, you went along with Insomniac pretty quickly, which could be a scum tell. I don't think Insomniac is scum, and definitely don't think he's scum with ashersky who I'm most confident is scum.
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More on why ashersky and Insomniac couldn't be on a team together. Sorry about the lack of links I'm copying them in from a Print screen.
This is basically his first contribution to the game. Do you think his scum buddy would call him out immediately for his weird tactic? I don't, I think he would have talked him out of it before the day even started.
Vote: Ashersky
Making sure you say something is an X-Tell in every post is not the way I've ever seen you play town.
And this, after ash places a scummy vote on Insomniac when it's clear he's lurking Insomniac reiterates his position saying ash is scummy.
Re: Insom votes. I'm actually a bit torn on this one. I 100% like Ozle's vote. That one is legit. Ash and sudgy just posted a vote for me without backing it up because I was an easy vote at the time. Now here's my issue. I already found ash scummy. But sudgy? That guy decided to defend his vote on me after the fact which is way more scummy than I feel about ash right now so I will be putting my vote there for now. Vote: sudgy
On day 3 Insomniac said he found ashersky's suspicion to be only below sudgy, this is right before we cleared sudgy:
sudgy > Eevee/Jorbles/ashersky > Lekkit/raerae > Jimm/Ozle/Archetype > mcmcsalot/yuma >>>>> Insomniac
I can't vote for sudgy. You can bet on me placing a Vote: ashersky though. (I could be convinced to vote for anyone today other than mcmcsalot yuma, but prefer, Eevee/Jorbles/Ash/Sudgy)
Quote from: yuma on April 18, 2013, 06:51:14 pm
I will ask what separates ash from eevee/jorbles?
Ash is seperated from Eevee/Jorbles in that I had a scummy read on ash from his day 1 Eevee Tell, Scum Tell, town Tell, etc attitude. The other 2 are fairly scummy to though, just ash had done something I actually thought was scummy as opposed to being lurky undercontributers (like myself)
Anyhow I think that's enough, but that's why I think it's impossible Insomniac is on a team with ashersky, and I think it really unlikely that Insomniac is scum because I think it's really likely that ashersky is scum. I've been suspicious of Insomniac earlier in the game for lurking, but the fact that he's still alive is making me think scum are just leaving him alive for a potential mislynch.
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It seems ashersky's lynch is coming back, Vote: ashersky.
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@lekkit: I went into a room and saw the costs of bought items.
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Okay also some more on why ashersky is scummy. Look at his day 2 lynch targets, a day when scum really didn't want to have another of their team lynched:
Ok. vote: yuma
Reasons:
You are probably the only player on f.ds advanced enough to kill Xeiron on purpose knowing we would push a newbie scum theory based on that.
You are leading town in circles, concentric ones spiraling away from you, specifically.
You haven't been consistent on D2: the latest three or so posts before you started responding to me were back and forth on Jimmmmm, for example.
You are ignoring possible scum play from Ozle happening right before your eyes.
Note, these are all D2 reasons, because scum!yuma doesn't give clues on D1. Most scum don't.
I think an Ozle lynch has merit. Ozle is more likely to flip scum than Yuma, I'd say. I mean, my case on Yuma had a lot to do with how I think he was letting scummy Ozle slide, so I should consider that Ozle should be lynched.
I'm willing to vote mcmc or Eevee now. If they are both willing to act like Yuma hasn't been the driving force being the Jimmmmm mislynch, they are scum or willful bad towny sheep.
I think mcmc is town now, btw. My scum read on him has evaporated as he's begun his townspeak. I think scum!mcmc doesn't argue like this, because he doesn't want the attention.
I agree that, since Jorbles was on wagon, we can leave him out of the conversation for D2. That leaves Ozle and yuma (along with Jimmmmm) off wagon. And yet no one will consider Ozle/yuma, both masterminds of f.ds, as scum? Does that not strike anyone as odd?
Want to lynch: Ozle
Willing: Jorbles, Lekkit, mail-mi
I am 50/50 on insom actually being scum. That puts him as less likely than Ozle to be scum. That's the hesitation there.
@Ozle, I didn't disappear; I followed along to your responses, but there was nothing new in them, just like there's been nothing new in my case on you. I appreciate the effort you've put into staying alive--that's the kind of effort I would put in if I was scum, too.
Quote from: Eevee on April 06, 2013, 08:32:49 am
Quote from: sudgy on April 05, 2013, 08:09:58 pm
Alright, it looks like one of the only valid lynches, Vote: Insomniac
Woah? yuma and ozle (two inherently very suspicious people due to being off wagon) vote for Ins and suddenly he is one of the only viable lynches?
If you are going to sheep, you should at least not sheep the off wagon guys. Sucks that they are the only ones posting.
I think Ozle is still viable.
Mcmc is looking scummier now. Reminds me of scum!mcmc from the first newbie game. Anyone for a mcmc lynch?
He states his willingness to lynch yuma, Ozle, mail-mi, Lekkit, mcmc, Eevee, myself and Insomniac. I know I am town, and I think Insomniac is town. I think that Eevee is probably town too. I know for a fact that yuma, Ozle, mail-mi, Lekkit and mcmc were town. Ashersky was trying to get lynches going on 5 players who are now confirmed town to us. He was casting votes around like candy at a parade, but on lots of players that are confirmed town and no votes on Archetype/sparky, barely even a mention of sparky in fact. This is how I think scum would play the day after one of their team mates gets lynched especially this early in the game. I think after the fact ash kinda forgot the scattershot approach he'd taken to trying to engineer a mislynch d2. Look at the way he leaps from lynch to lynch. And also look at how he barely mentions Archetype/sparky d2. I mean come on! He's so scummy.
One more post coming.
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Remember everybody, scum might have the Talisman. We might even want to consider this LyLo already --
If that was so, scum might want to quickhammer now, as they could just do the same tomorrow... If scum has the Talisman, ash is scum. And it seems like scum might have it. The person who has it could easily be dead though, I don't know when it was bought.
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Okay so this is why I think Jimmmm is most likely his partner. The one player that ashersky will stick his neck out for and defend d2 is Jimmmm. Remember this is when ashersky seems willing to lynch 8 other players at different points in the day. I'm going to reuse some quotes because I'm going to be interpreting them while looking at ashersky's relationship with Jimmm.
The Jimmmmm wagon starts building and at first ashersky doesn't comment on it much.
Eventually here ashersky tacitly backs the Jimmmm lynch, but pushes for more time, I assume thinking the wagon would eventually derail. Here it's ashersky who proposes we wait long enough for Jimmmm to defend himself, counting on him to come up with his own defense. Before this he didn't comment much on the Jimmmm lynch which makes me think he was hoping it would go away without him having to step in. These quotes were back to back.
What's Jimmmmm at now? Should we just lynch? Might be better to get to night.
You can lynch me now, or you can lynch me tomorrow after I've had time to form reads and make people justify their vote.
Quote from: Jimmmmm on March 27, 2013, 08:02:01 pm
You can lynch me now, or you can lynch me tomorrow after I've had time to form reads and make people justify their vote.
Are you good with a soft Jimmmmm lynch deadline? Say tomorrow at 8:00 p.m. forum time?
This is actually a very good way to try and stop a lynch. It looks really towny because you're being very reasonable.
Then he tries to redirect the Jimmmm lynch to me.
Jimmmmm has until midnight tomorrow to contribute his promised reads, a deadline he himself proposed. I say we just leave it at that.
Separately, unvote based on raerae's read, as I said I would. Not that mcmc is free of suspicion now, but he's not D2's lynch.
I think mail-mi is just playing badly as town right now, and not intentionally as scum.
Jorbles seems scummy from recent comments, and could see a Jorbles lynch being a good one. I don't like the "let's see if he lives through the night" comment at all, and his vote jumping with regards to Jimmmmm seems opportunistic ("oh, he was at L-2? Gotta keep that chance going!").
vote: jorbles
Then he goes after yuma.
Then he tries to redirect the lynch off Jimmmm to anyone it'll stick to.
I don't think Jimmmmm will flip scum, so I won't contribute to his lynch.
I think Jorbles, mcmc, Ozle (same case on him as on Yuma), and Yuma are better lynches. With those, even mislynches tell us more than Jimmmmm-easy-lynch.
Then he tries to redirect to Ozle.
Quote from: yuma on March 29, 2013, 09:50:09 pm
Quote from: sudgy on March 29, 2013, 09:38:18 pm
I had been getting kind of suspicious of yuma anyway at that point. And that was a better case than most in this game, and you said it was a horrible case. That just confirms my vote a bit more.
but again I ask: is this "case" more worthwhile than the obvious relationships that have been established between kooshie and mcmc/jimmm?
I don't really see Jimmmmm and Kooshie tied like I do mcmc and her.
Ozle has been actively scummier, where jimmmmm has be more lurky.
Lynch pref now:
Ozle >>> Yuma >>> Jorbles >>> mcmc
Vote: Ozle
He even suggests no lynching over lynching Jimmmm.
We are at even parity...we could no lynch.
He again tries to derail the lynch by planting suspicion of yuma.
If jimmmmm flips town, Yuma knows we are coming after him hard for pushing a mislynch against all opposition.
Basically, jimmmmm flips town (as I think he will) and I open D3 with a Yuma vote that will not go away.
Finally he offers to hammer Jimmmm, but not seriously just to see if he can turn the wagon on yuma, and to try and convince yuma that he's town. This was when Jimmmm was at L-1.
yuma, if I hammer Jimmmmm, will it change your mind about me?
Quote from: mail-mi on April 01, 2013, 12:21:30 am
Ash, if I unvote, then you vote and I can has hammer? It would be my first one.
I don't want to lynch Jimmmmm; I want to see what yuma will say if I agree to lynch him against my own best judgement.
He continues to defend Jimmmm.
Mcmc, read yuma's argument with me for why Jimmmmm is townish to me.
He's not guaranteed town, by any means, just less likely to be scum than at least three other options today. I want to lynch someone who has a better chance of flipping scum.
At this point the Jimmmm wagon begins to dissipate, but there's one more interesting post from ashersky:
Okay, just finished a re-read of D1. Here are my thoughts:
--I had town reads early to mid D1 on yuma and Ozle. That's funny to me, given how I feel about them now.
--I had a scum reads on Jimmmmm and mcmc all day.
--I think liopoil is town. He started the Kooshie wagon and kept it going all day. That isn't a scum!liopoil move.
--Insom REALLY lurked his way through D1 (and now D2).
--Eevee has not been suspected much at all, even though he contributed very little on D1.
The bolding is mine. He had a scum read on Jimmm day 1, but after Kooshie gets lynched and the town all suspects Jimmm. Now ashersky is unwilling to vote Jimmm at all? I looked and I couldn't find ashersky's defense of Jimmmm as to why he thought Jimmmm wasn't scum. It mostly seems to imply that he thinks that people going after Jimmmm are scummier than Jimmm, but he doesn't give any reason why Jimmmm wouldn't be scum.
I think it's ashersky, and I think based on their d2 interactions I think Jimmmm is his partner.
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Remember everybody, scum might have the Talisman. We might even want to consider this LyLo already --
If that was so, scum might want to quickhammer now, as they could just do the same tomorrow... If scum has the Talisman, ash is scum. And it seems like scum might have it. The person who has it could easily be dead though, I don't know when it was bought.
Or they have it and Jorbles and raerae are his partners...
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Remember everybody, scum might have the Talisman. We might even want to consider this LyLo already --
If that was so, scum might want to quickhammer now, as they could just do the same tomorrow... If scum has the Talisman, ash is scum. And it seems like scum might have it. The person who has it could easily be dead though, I don't know when it was bought.
Or they have it and Jorbles and raerae are scum
Sorry, mistake.
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I also think nothing has happened to make this case from Ozle seem bad.
I honestly dont think Jimm is the best lynch anymore. I'd still be willing to lynch him, especially if he goes back to non-content posting, but he isnt doing that now, and we have a much better candidate.
Vote: Ashersky
Summary:
Self Voting
Refuses to vote Jimm for seemingly no reason
Terrible case on me (Which is seemingly wholely down to the fact I gave out other reads while the Kooshie wagon was going on.
Terrible case on Yuma (which essentially amounts to, Ozle is scummy, you dont agree with me, therefore you must be scummy)
Spamming 'tell' posts to increase post count day 1. Which stopped when someone noticed.
Terrible Sheeping.
If we're going to lynch wrong he apparently is the best one to do. (His own words)
Vote for Sudgy out of the blue. Which seems desperation to save Jimmm (when he has nothing but a gut read on Jimm)
Detail:
vote: liopoil
Mcmc is contributing plenty but Kooshie gets your lurker tag? They have the exact same number of posts in your quote. Sounds like trying to form a bad case on D1. Scum tell (really).
Defense of Kooshie.
vote: kooshie
That's 7 and L-2. Good time for increased activity, I say.
Switches to Kooshie with NO REASON AT AT ALL (reasons came later on). This is getting on the wagon if I have ever seen it. And in one of the scummiest spots no less
Terrible scum play, that.
I think we're looking for more newbie scum.
Says we're looking for Newbie scum, then tries to build a case on Yuma and me.
vote: mcmc
2 reasons--this post is scummy (is this about sudgy or me?) and yuma's case.
I will unvote if raerae says you are town.
Sheeps Yuma (who he has previously been saying is scummy
And then offers to unsheep Raerae
Probably means we should be looking at the lurkers.
His own words, which he then completely ignores.
Are you good with a soft Jimmmmm lynch deadline? Say tomorrow at 8:00 p.m. forum time?
Suggests soft Jimmm deadline, doesn't stick to it.
Actually, I'm happy to leave mail-mi alive to be NKed at this point.
This one might be important later.
Jimmmmm has until midnight tomorrow to contribute his promised reads, a deadline he himself proposed. I say we just leave it at that.
Separately, unvote based on raerae's read, as I said I would. Not that mcmc is free of suspicion now, but he's not D2's lynch.
I think mail-mi is just playing badly as town right now, and not intentionally as scum.
Jorbles seems scummy from recent comments, and could see a Jorbles lynch being a good one. I don't like the "let's see if he lives through the night" comment at all, and his vote jumping with regards to Jimmmmm seems opportunistic ("oh, he was at L-2? Gotta keep that chance going!").
vote: jorbles
The proposed sheep of raerae
Confirmation of Jimmmm deadline that Ashersky doesnt stick too
Vote for Jorbles
"Then there his interaction with Yuma calling him out as scummy because he was ignoring my scummy play (No real reference to my scummyplay)" There's a lot of quotes there, but they are just back and forth. I dont consider it scummy.
We are at even parity...we could no lynch.
Suggest No lynch.
We cannot get a concensus on Jimmmm, how on earth are we going to get a no lynch.
If jimmmmm flips town, Yuma knows we are coming after him hard for pushing a mislynch against all opposition.
Basically, jimmmmm flips town (as I think he will) and I open D3 with a Yuma vote that will not go away.
Back to Yuma again.
Not considering other options ever is a bad move.
yuma, if I hammer Jimmmmm, will it change your mind about me?
Offer to hammer Jimmm. (Later claims not a serious offer, just trying to trick Yuma)
"Then comes the big switch from Yuma to me, been over that one already"
I could switch to sudgy, if that got going. Insom's case on him is better than a Jimmmmm lynch.
Completely out of the blue offer to vote for Sudgy based solely on Insoms case.
Someone who has not appeared on ANY of his 'i think is scummy lists' so far!
Also, Ozle, for what it's worth, I find the lack of suspicion of Eevee by the town very odd. I mentioned that in my re-read. That would seem to be something you would appreciate, given you also suspect Eevee.
Interesting that the previous buddying with Eevee now becomes suspicion.
(and I do appreciate it!)
One of his big critisizms of me was I was saying Eevee was scummy while the Kooshie wagon was going on.
So when I voice suspicions, its scummy. When the rest of you dont, its suspicious!
And then we have all the recent stuff which people should be able to read for themselves.
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Remember everybody, scum might have the Talisman. We might even want to consider this LyLo already --
If that was so, scum might want to quickhammer now, as they could just do the same tomorrow... If scum has the Talisman, ash is scum. And it seems like scum might have it. The person who has it could easily be dead though, I don't know when it was bought.
Or they have it and Jorbles and raerae are his partners...
If raerae or I were a scum team with the Talisman as you've described it wouldn't we already have lynched ashersky?
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Vote Count 5.4
ashersky (3) -- raerae, Jorbles, sudgy {L-1}
raerae (2) -- ashersky, Insomniac
Insomniac (1) -- Eevee
Not Voting (1) -- Jimm
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. There are 15 days left. Deadline is May 18th at 11:00 AM.
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Remember everybody, scum might have the Talisman. We might even want to consider this LyLo already --
If that was so, scum might want to quickhammer now, as they could just do the same tomorrow... If scum has the Talisman, ash is scum. And it seems like scum might have it. The person who has it could easily be dead though, I don't know when it was bought.
Or they have it and Jorbles and raerae are his partners...
If raerae or I were a scum team with the Talisman as you've described it wouldn't we already have lynched ashersky?
I don't quite know how it works, you might need to decide beforehand. Also, that was a typo, it should have been "Or they have it and Jorbles and raerae are the mafia." I think that's one of the least likely cases though.
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Just a warning for everyone: I'm going to a bachelor party weekend that starts in about 4 hours. I'll be able to poke my head online for a little bit tomorrow morning, but aside from that I expect to be V/LA from about 4 hours from now until Sunday evening.
Anyhow I'm convinced that ashersky is scum so that's where my vote is staying. I'll poke my head in in a few hours before I head out.
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I'm seriously considering hammering against my yesterdays feelings, that point about the talisman is pretty good. Do we know talisman exists for sure?
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I DONT KNOW IM GOING BACK AND FORTH ALL THE TIME.
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I'm seriously considering hammering against my yesterdays feelings, that point about the talisman is pretty good. Do we know talisman exists for sure?
sudgy said the talisman exists and I trust sudgy.
I'm very confident that ash is scum, but if you don't believe me go read his actions d2. He's clearly trying to get a mislynch through, and he's refusing to lynch Jimmmm. I admit Jimmmm seems pretty towny in comparison, but why else would ash have worked so hard to defend him, while trying really hard to get a mislynch to happen?
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Anyhow sorry about this but when no one was responding originally I made plans to hang with friends now. I'll check in tomorrow, but please read ashersky closely.
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Anyhow sorry about this but when no one was responding originally I made plans to hang with friends now. I'll check in tomorrow, but please read ashersky closely.
I think you've said your piece.
ashersky, announcing intent to hammer. Defend yourself!
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Anyhow sorry about this but when no one was responding originally I made plans to hang with friends now. I'll check in tomorrow, but please read ashersky closely.
I think you've said your piece.
ashersky, announcing intent to hammer. Defend yourself!
Jorbles tried harder right now to save his partner than he's done anything ALL game.
I mean, this is what scum does when they get close to winning. All of a sudden, long series of posts when there were none.
One of Jorbles's main arguments is that Jimmmmm is my partner. Think about that, Eevee.
Also, scum knows if they mislynch today, they've most likely won. It's worth it to Jorbles/raerae to go out on a limb like this. When I flip town, they will both look horrible, but it won't matter if they can live through tomorrow. And they'll just blame the mislynch on the victim, even though they were the ones building crappy cases.
Don't do it Eevee. You know there is something fishy going on.
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Also, very convenient they both announce VLA at a crucial time. Raerae's is in the VLA thread, which I accept as PINL. But this is a game of social deception, and Jorbs only mentioned his departure in thread at a time where it forced urgency into a mislynch. Scum!Jorbles could do that.
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Okay so this is why I think Jimmmm is most likely his partner. The one player that ashersky will stick his neck out for and defend d2 is Jimmmm. Remember this is when ashersky seems willing to lynch 8 other players at different points in the day. I'm going to reuse some quotes because I'm going to be interpreting them while looking at ashersky's relationship with Jimmm.
The Jimmmmm wagon starts building and at first ashersky doesn't comment on it much.
Eventually here ashersky tacitly backs the Jimmmm lynch, but pushes for more time, I assume thinking the wagon would eventually derail. Here it's ashersky who proposes we wait long enough for Jimmmm to defend himself, counting on him to come up with his own defense. Before this he didn't comment much on the Jimmmm lynch which makes me think he was hoping it would go away without him having to step in. These quotes were back to back.
What's Jimmmmm at now? Should we just lynch? Might be better to get to night.
You can lynch me now, or you can lynch me tomorrow after I've had time to form reads and make people justify their vote.
Quote from: Jimmmmm on March 27, 2013, 08:02:01 pm
You can lynch me now, or you can lynch me tomorrow after I've had time to form reads and make people justify their vote.
Are you good with a soft Jimmmmm lynch deadline? Say tomorrow at 8:00 p.m. forum time?
This is actually a very good way to try and stop a lynch. It looks really towny because you're being very reasonable.
Then he tries to redirect the Jimmmm lynch to me.
Jimmmmm has until midnight tomorrow to contribute his promised reads, a deadline he himself proposed. I say we just leave it at that.
Separately, unvote based on raerae's read, as I said I would. Not that mcmc is free of suspicion now, but he's not D2's lynch.
I think mail-mi is just playing badly as town right now, and not intentionally as scum.
Jorbles seems scummy from recent comments, and could see a Jorbles lynch being a good one. I don't like the "let's see if he lives through the night" comment at all, and his vote jumping with regards to Jimmmmm seems opportunistic ("oh, he was at L-2? Gotta keep that chance going!").
vote: jorbles
Then he goes after yuma.
Then he tries to redirect the lynch off Jimmmm to anyone it'll stick to.
I don't think Jimmmmm will flip scum, so I won't contribute to his lynch.
I think Jorbles, mcmc, Ozle (same case on him as on Yuma), and Yuma are better lynches. With those, even mislynches tell us more than Jimmmmm-easy-lynch.
Then he tries to redirect to Ozle.
Quote from: yuma on March 29, 2013, 09:50:09 pm
Quote from: sudgy on March 29, 2013, 09:38:18 pm
I had been getting kind of suspicious of yuma anyway at that point. And that was a better case than most in this game, and you said it was a horrible case. That just confirms my vote a bit more.
but again I ask: is this "case" more worthwhile than the obvious relationships that have been established between kooshie and mcmc/jimmm?
I don't really see Jimmmmm and Kooshie tied like I do mcmc and her.
Ozle has been actively scummier, where jimmmmm has be more lurky.
Lynch pref now:
Ozle >>> Yuma >>> Jorbles >>> mcmc
Vote: Ozle
He even suggests no lynching over lynching Jimmmm.
We are at even parity...we could no lynch.
He again tries to derail the lynch by planting suspicion of yuma.
If jimmmmm flips town, Yuma knows we are coming after him hard for pushing a mislynch against all opposition.
Basically, jimmmmm flips town (as I think he will) and I open D3 with a Yuma vote that will not go away.
Finally he offers to hammer Jimmmm, but not seriously just to see if he can turn the wagon on yuma, and to try and convince yuma that he's town. This was when Jimmmm was at L-1.
yuma, if I hammer Jimmmmm, will it change your mind about me?
Quote from: mail-mi on April 01, 2013, 12:21:30 am
Ash, if I unvote, then you vote and I can has hammer? It would be my first one.
I don't want to lynch Jimmmmm; I want to see what yuma will say if I agree to lynch him against my own best judgement.
He continues to defend Jimmmm.
Mcmc, read yuma's argument with me for why Jimmmmm is townish to me.
He's not guaranteed town, by any means, just less likely to be scum than at least three other options today. I want to lynch someone who has a better chance of flipping scum.
At this point the Jimmmm wagon begins to dissipate, but there's one more interesting post from ashersky:
Okay, just finished a re-read of D1. Here are my thoughts:
--I had town reads early to mid D1 on yuma and Ozle. That's funny to me, given how I feel about them now.
--I had a scum reads on Jimmmmm and mcmc all day.
--I think liopoil is town. He started the Kooshie wagon and kept it going all day. That isn't a scum!liopoil move.
--Insom REALLY lurked his way through D1 (and now D2).
--Eevee has not been suspected much at all, even though he contributed very little on D1.
The bolding is mine. He had a scum read on Jimmm day 1, but after Kooshie gets lynched and the town all suspects Jimmm. Now ashersky is unwilling to vote Jimmm at all? I looked and I couldn't find ashersky's defense of Jimmmm as to why he thought Jimmmm wasn't scum. It mostly seems to imply that he thinks that people going after Jimmmm are scummier than Jimmm, but he doesn't give any reason why Jimmmm wouldn't be scum.
I think it's ashersky, and I think based on their d2 interactions I think Jimmmm is his partner.
Trimming quotes on iPad sucks. My favorite crap argument from Jorbles is the second to last para, saying he couldn't find my defense of Jimmmm.. That is an outright lie and I am calling it scummy. How many different times did I explain my defense to everyone? As soon as RMM7 ended and we could talk about it I did multiple times. There are hundreds of words on the subject.
To present a lie like a fact to help support a terrible case is what scrambling scum does to save his partner.
Just terrible.
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Anyone who's town, think about this:
We are at the stage where a mislynch puts scum in a very strong position, and a scum lynch spells almost certain doom.
The scum team has had four nights to talk and strategize. They aren't bussing today unless the scum lynch is very likely to happen. They are very likely to defend their partner to force the mislynch.
Look at today's interactions. Jorbles is trying to save raerae. Raerae neglected to mention Jorbles once today. I think that's fairly strong evidence, especially when you look at everyone else.
No one particularly cares if I live. But it feels wrong in your heart to lynch me, if you are town and know me at all. There is your hesitation Eevee. Because you know this is town!ash. You know scum!ash, you've been my partner before, and caught me before.
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Waiting to see what Eevee says when he posts but if he doesn't hammer ash I will.
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scum Ash has totally fooled me too, in mafia noir.
what caught my eye about Jorbles's posts was his unnatural defense of Insomniac. cant we just lynch him? fits every possible scum pair conceivable.
i object the ash lynch
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Vote: ashersky
Sorry Eevee. I think ash is scum and do not like the redirect to me. Here comes the hot seat.
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two scum on ash atm. lets hope we didnt lose.
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Vote Count 5.5
ashersky (4) -- raerae, Jorbles, sudgy, Insomniac
raerae (1) -- ashersky
Insomniac (1) -- Eevee
Not Voting (1) -- Jimm
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. There are 15 days left. Deadline is May 18th at 11:00 AM.
What an exciting day at the Bank! And now we are nearing the moment of truth. But first, more moments of lies. For it seems that ashersky was not your enemy. He was actually just a Town-aligned Coppersmith.
I will now tabulate coin totals.
NIGHT 5 START!
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Coin totals are now updated.
I also had to retroactively mark at least one item as "Sold Out" (with an X) on at least one player's map. This item or items was actually purchased a different night (not right now).
Please send me your moves--or at least let me hear from you--within 24 hours.
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First, a little auspicious theme music: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQ8W5NBFv9Q
Oh my, it looks like we've lost nearly all the town. You aren't very good at this, are you? If you don't catch the last two scum soon, we will declare bankruptcy! How dreadful...
Insomniac, the Town-aligned Coppersmith, has been killed.
Vote Count 6.1
Not Voting (5) -- Eevee, Jorbles, sudgy, raerae, Jimm
With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch. You will start eating in to your bankable time on Thursday at 1:00 PM. You will have 15 days after that.
THREAD UNLOCKED -- DAY 6 START
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What in the name of god!
.. okay first, nobody vote, obviously.
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I bought Counting House last night (one shot cop basically) and investigated Jimmmmm, he's a mountebank.
Why isn't sudgy dead?
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One just has GOT to wonder about sudgy. Dude is considered an IC for reasons that aren't confirmed (the xeiron kill WAS weird), and keeps on surviving night after night.
Scum killed the heavily suspected ashersky-hammerer (not happy about that btw, Ins :(). Someone scummy and suspected, from the wagon, WHY? My last post yesterday was "there are two scum on the wagon right now".
I'm baffled. We obviously can't afford any more mislynches, but this should be doable if we manage to hit scum back to back. Right?
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I bought Counting House last night (one shot cop basically) and investigated Jimmmmm, he's a mountebank.
Why isn't sudgy dead?
Interesting interesting interesting!
Now, obviously seeing as scum needs only one more mislynch, this is a very reasonable claim to make as scum. Lets wait for Jimm's rebuttal and then start to analyze which it is.
I suspect sudgy might be still alive because he is of the mountebank variety..
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I think we need to tread VERY carefully about sorting through raerae's claim. No one claim/say anything before we think of a way to make it as verifiable as possible.
.. well, if you know counting house does something other than cop people, I guess you can say that as then raerea pretty much msut be lying, but other than that.
I suspect sudgy might live because he is scum..
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Is it possible that sudgy could have faked buying the Gold Key. Maybe someone else who died bought the Gold Key and sudgy somehow knew it enough to claim?
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This is killing me but I won't be able to post until tonight. I'll try to keep semi-caught up when I can but have a marathon meeting this afternoon and have to prep for that so probably not much activity until tonight. Sorry guys!
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Oh, raerae is claiming Counting House. I found, but could not afford one of those. raerae, can you tell me the cost of the Counting House and describe where you found it?
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HOW AM I STILL ALIVE
Wait, I think scum is doing this trying to push a mislynch on me. First, something that is known for a fact: A townie bought the gold key. Two people confirmed that it cost less, and I say I bought it. We can't all be lying. Also, I wouldn't have claimed to have gotten the key if I was scum and knew what the person I killed had. Why would I be talking about the key since D1 if there was a slim chance it would work?
Now, on raerae's claim, I have no idea.
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Also, I'm getting a little suspicious of Eevee for suspecting me. I'm certain scum is keeping me alive to make town think I'm scum.
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Okay, I actually think scum wanting to preserve their excellent position to the point of being afraid enough of doctor protection to let sudgy live is a more likely reason for him living, however that doesn't explain the Insomniac-kill. He hammered town, I for sure would have been building a case against him today. It must be something with the items, either real or just mafias perception.
Either way, things we know for sure:
-At least one of raerae and Jimm is scum.
-We can't afford a mislynch.
Things I think we need to assume for today:
-sudgy is town
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Okay, I actually think scum wanting to preserve their excellent position to the point of being afraid enough of doctor protection to let sudgy live is a more likely reason for him living, however that doesn't explain the Insomniac-kill. He hammered town, I for sure would have been building a case against him today. It must be something with the items, either real or just mafias perception.
Either way, things we know for sure:
-At least one of raerae and Jimm is scum.
-We can't afford a mislynch.
Things I think we need to assume for today:
-sudgy is town
How do we know that one of them is scum? If you're talking about the Oracle thing, I don't think that makes us know for certain.
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I bought Counting House last night (one shot cop basically) and investigated Jimmmmm, he's a mountebank.
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Well this is weird. sudgy being alive is super strange, and from my point of view it's entirely obvious that raerae is scum trying to take out the win.
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I'm baffled. We obviously can't afford any more mislynches, but this should be doable if we manage to hit scum back to back. Right?
Haha, yes if we manage to hit scum back to back then it's very doable. Unfortunately that seems unlikely. Seeing as today's lynch will likely be either me or raerae, I'm going to Vote: raerae.
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So you don't have anything else to say? Just that you are not scum so raerae must be?
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raerae is scum, and I'm still leaning towards her partner being Jorbles. I still don't see how it could be sudgy. It could be Eevee, but he seems Townier to me.
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So you don't have anything else to say? Just that you are not scum so raerae must be?
Still thinking.
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I mean, there's no reason for me not to vote for raerae. She should vote for me too, and hopefully the two other Townies can make the right choice. But yes, I'm going to re-read raerae and see what I can find.
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OK, the Counting House was in a gold room at the northwest corner of my map above a blue room and to the left of a white-ish room.
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Ii just realised that with Insom Town I was totally right to argue for lynching on the Kooshie wagon, since there were two scum on and one off.
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Jimm and raerae, you both "know" the other is scum now. It'd be great if you could build a case with this knowledge in mind. Prove it, if you will!
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Jimm and raerae, you both "know" the other is scum now. It'd be great if you could build a case with this knowledge in mind. Prove it, if you will!
Working on it, dearie.
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Jimm and raerae, you both "know" the other is scum now. It'd be great if you could build a case with this knowledge in mind. Prove it, if you will!
Working on it, dearie.
Nice, cutie-pie.
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The first thing to say about raerae is what I said yesterday about the Kooshie lynch. She jumped on at close to the last minute, when Kooshie was at L-2 and there were no other lynches looking likely. To me, that's a classic bus. The only reason she gave was "I have to agree with Ash and Lio, that list is shady."
Kooshie has been quieter than I would normally expect but she hasn't done anything I find particularly offensive. I don't know if I'd call this scummy but I do find it odd so I've got my eye on her.
Kooshie, have you actually given reads yet?
Whoops, just saw ash's quote of kooshie's reads. Ignore my previous post and I'll go read that more carefully.
I have to agree with Ash and Lio, that list is shady. The other thing that's super off to me is the mail-mi read. Mail-mi is fitting his meta and I see no reason to point fingers at it yet. I am concerned that lio may be bussing but I'm less convinced of his scumitude now.
I'll Unvote for now.
Does anybody object to me putting Kooshie at L-1?
Vote: Kooshie
This was everything that raerae said about Kooshie on Day 1. Note that Kooshie was on L-2 before the second quote. "I've got my eye on her" is definitely something I can see scum saying early on about a teammate. I'm not sure on whether this makes raerae scummy, but I don't think she gets a lot of credit for being on the Kooshie wagon.
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Sparky definitely looks bad from that post.
I had some suspicion on sparky already yesterday. I'll reread him when I have better access.
I can't say I agree with that. Announcing intent always seems like a townie thing to do to me.
Also, ash, didn't you just say we're looking for newbie scum? Hasn't sparky been scum a bajillion times?
raerae defending sparky.
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Notes on mail-mi:
1. Went after lio D1 for his "scummy" defense but never explained why it was scummy. I absolutely despise this. It is the easiest thing in the world to say something is scummy and let somebody else come up with the reason why.
2. He voted for patpat for lurking, then insom for lurking, then voted for lio because he disagreed with him, but was reluctant to vote lurking Kooshie. The sudden hesitance to lynch a lurker seems more like trying to protect a partner than trying to be smart about a lynch considering how eager he was to vote the other lurkers.
3. #793 is awful. He either just drew a night kill with something town-friendly in his pocket, or he's scum hoping to avoid a lynch. It was an extra weird claim considering lio was only lightly suspicious of him at the time. I don't remember mail-mi being this jumpy in past games. This, and his vote "test", just seem like a gamble to avoid a lynch.
I could keep going with individual scummy things, and certainly will if needed, but I think the above combined with his total lack of content is enough.
Vote: mail-mi
Does this seem suspicious to anyone else? "I could keep going with individual scummy things, and certainly will if needed, but I think the above combined with his total lack of content is enough."
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In response to Eevee:
I have not played a great game. Fully admit that and my only excuse is my real life has been real busy and I haven't been able to devote as much time as I should have to this game. I helped kill Kooshie and Arch. Regarding Arch, however, I don't think a lot of towncred can be gained by anybody not previously suspecting Arch on that lynch since the slip was less of a slip and more of a spill. I stuck my neck out for Jimmmmm D2 and still hold to that read. Yuma roleblocked me and there was still a kill. I know that doesn't and shouldn't absolve me of suspicion but I still think it hold some water.
This comes from yesterday game-wise and a bit over a week ago IRL. raerae has had a "Townread" on me for most of the game, and the only thing she said against that since this post was to suspect me if ash flips scum. Why on Earth would she use her only investigation on someone she thought was Town?
It's also worth noting, that I think raerae has mentioned Jorbles a total of once, and it really had nothing to do with what she thought of him.
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OK, the Counting House was in a gold room at the northwest corner of my map above a blue room and to the left of a white-ish room.
What other items were in the room?
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Actually I'm voting raerae, it doesn't matter what items were in that room because the Counting House in that room hasn't been purchased. Vote: raerae.
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Actually I'm voting raerae, it doesn't matter what items were in that room because the Counting House in that room hasn't been purchased. Vote: raerae.
Are you in that room currently?
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Yeah, it's where I ended the night (I was saving up to buy the Counting House tomorrow night).
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WAIT!!! I AM WORKING ON READS!! WHAT THE HELL JORBLES?????
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Vote Count 6.2
raerae (3) -- Jimm, Jorbles, ??
Not Voting (3) -- Eevee, raerae, sudgy
With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.
Hmm, it seems we have a double voter in our midst. Well, good show, sport! Raerae, the Scum-aligned Mountebank, has been lynched!
That's the good news. I'm afraid there's bad news, too. It looks like raerae possessed not one, but TWO vengekills. How horrible. She has taken Eevee and sudgy down with her! They were both Town-aligned Coppersmiths.
This leaves only Jimm and Jorbles still alive.
GAME OVER: MOUNTEBANKS--JORBLES, RAERAE, ARCHETYPE, AND KOOSHIE--WIN
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Thread unlocked forever.
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RMM game through and through. I am not happy.
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two vengekills.... are you freaking kidding me!
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seriously... I thought i was reading ehal's bastard game!
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seriously... I thought i was reading ehal's bastard game!
I don't think you will still believe it was bastard with fuller knowledge of what happened. Scum did not have double vengekill until last night. If you had lynched raerae yesterday, as you very nearly did, town likely would have won.
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D1: First advocated map claiming then backed off when that idea got shot down. Now I'm not saying changing your mind is scummy but this was a really easy way to participate without really saying much.
Placed a joke vote on me and conveniently forgot to remove it through the lynch.
Also, Kooshie called him "very towny" when he really wasn't doing much.
D2: First to post/comment on the lynch, just mentions that it happened really quick and that xerion was a weird NK. Again, no true content, seems to be fishing for conversation.
Lurktastic. I've been wrong about lurkers twice this game and I resent the hell out of defending Jimmmmm time and time again.
Tries to push map claiming again then claims (everything but the room he's in) without waiting for town's yea or nay.
Repeatedly says he'll catch up, repeatedly doesn't.
Didn't vote all day so safely stayed off the mail-mi lynch while not voicing opposition to it.
Offers to be the lynch/self-vote multiple times but never actually does.
Votes for Arch for lurking...pot/kettle/etc. Then unvotes once the lynch starts to gain steam and says he's leaning towards town on Arch.
Gives reads and lists me as scummy based on lack of activity, then, a few posts later, points out that ash, Lekkit, & Eevee think he's town, completely ignores the fact that I've been defending him just as much, if not more, than the others.
For the rest of the day his votes are all over the place. Sudgy, mail-mi, sudgy, unvote, mail-mi...on and off a bunch. Ended the day first on mail-mi's lynch.
This is what I was working on.
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and I am not saying I didnt' enjoy the game or that scum didn't deserve the win. But no game in which scum has two vengekills at the end deserves to be called a "normal" game. Ever.
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Thanks for the read on Ash, yuma :)
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I knew they were there, but I thought I'd better not warn people. Would have commuted and became an IC tomorrow but pretty much knew we wouldn't get there..
I had the right idea btw, I thought raerae was the scum possessing both vengekills. I would have tried to argue a Jorbles-lynch had I gotten a chance. Damn hatedness.
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seriously... I thought i was reading ehal's bastard game!
I don't think you will still believe it was bastard with fuller knowledge of what happened. Scum did not have double vengekill until last night. If you had lynched raerae yesterday, as you very nearly did, town likely would have won.
I am not saying it is bastard. I am saying it is RMM. Two very different games.
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Well played scum!
I utterly sucked at the RPG aspect of this, but think I did okay with the mafia part. My voting record in my last two games is crazy good.
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Qts:
Spectator and Mod: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/rCmj5R5tF4ZF
Scum qt: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/4UVVuXgUmvJ
Captured Players 1: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/w9SsqTSy8A72H
Captured Players 2: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/5V2b3HKNR9gp
Jail: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/6VLqArSy73H
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Wut.
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Well. Damn.
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Shame on you all for not listening to me yesterday.
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I agree with yuma on the RMM-thing. But I signed up for a game with buyable powers, so I expected a lot of roles.
Congrats on the win, Mountebanks!
Also, Robz, full details of the setup, please. :)
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Shame on you all for not listening to me yesterday.
:(
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Shame on you all for not listening to me yesterday.
see the QT for my most compelling case on you ever... I think I had like 35 points... raerae and jorbles did you use parts of it in your case on ash?
If so I will live forever in my shame.
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Shame on you all for not listening to me yesterday.
see the QT for my most compelling case on you ever... I think I had like 35 points... raerae and jorbles did you use parts of it in your case on ash?
If so I will live forever in my shame.
I'll check it out. But really, you thought I was scum? You used to read me so well.
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Shame on you all for not listening to me yesterday.
:(
I had the scum team dead to rights (finally), but you killed me instead. Insom, why?
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You know, this setup could work with 3 scum I think.
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Shame on you all for not listening to me yesterday.
see the QT for my most compelling case on you ever... I think I had like 35 points... raerae and jorbles did you use parts of it in your case on ash?
If so I will live forever in my shame.
I'll check it out. But really, you thought I was scum? You used to read me so well.
That's the problem with arficially created town metas..
But I did try to stop your lynch eventually. Blame Insomniac!
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Shame on you all for not listening to me yesterday.
see the QT for my most compelling case on you ever... I think I had like 35 points... raerae and jorbles did you use parts of it in your case on ash?
If so I will live forever in my shame.
I'll check it out. But really, you thought I was scum? You used to read me so well.
I thought you were Town. I hated the way you were playing, but I thought you were Town.
Man, you me and Eevee had the game solved. :(
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And I should say for stat keeping purposes, I am counting this game...
But I do think in the future we need better specifications for what is considered "normal" and perhaps utilize some sort of a committee to assign those designations? Because these types of games are fun and I think they should be played, but this game is very, very different from say JK++.
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Idk ash, you were scummy (though that might be related to me having a scum result on you), and what was with the self-voting????
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Shame on you all for not listening to me yesterday.
see the QT for my most compelling case on you ever... I think I had like 35 points... raerae and jorbles did you use parts of it in your case on ash?
If so I will live forever in my shame.
I'll check it out. But really, you thought I was scum? You used to read me so well.
You were pretty scummy....
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MAPS!
Master Layout: https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1skAWJKYmEX6GdxZG8UilbzfNmrqiCOcvpVsIKCAFlTs/edit
Current Locations: https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1o2CEtMjTBhbC3p7wvEn7v0U5F5rBbnOMtLG77vrUZ8E/edit
Vaults Version: https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1ifwpKd5ADbYGAz1MG-2P18TL79sCOUgUWMMgbZt2P8s/edit
Mountebanks: https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1-gTX_NPfmesr58FNxn2d0xiA4mPC9We8QgPRJZ3FqOA/edit
sudgy: https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1Za7XOQ3JAP5ksuIBS2yKWe0PZr4EE2zVfD7QwCKjsrk/edit
Eevee: https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1ZaZrjsVkuuhQmB1S69RHDQfyDmbwW3DYJubDCeqc1bo/edit
Jimm: https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1QwpPJYKVXRqlkzr8rP85hqQOIpfyAU4dMvn7bjzatnk/edit
yuma: https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1-Yr2r3MtBZGwaW-7QuFVW0-TnmkJlb85eDJaCCIU8VE/edit
ashersky: https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1-8ZPvSNbwS-8Ot8nptH79sEvpKLoE2eYawbx9mnZIx4/edit
Insomniac: https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1Bl-U2Tny9DJSJ-PqCG-R_dfnc-eoJgFoQbfpKV11uxk/edit
Ozle: https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1GcVk2qtiC3yxMzPaJ88bJnzoq79D7Qom1wObIhR-1qM/edit
mcmcsalot: https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1AyiY4PPUHKRErZGtM4rMRf_e9gSJJbMLFVbESBDCmhk/edit
Lekkit: https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1nLjCk4_o6-e8BnDdRVKjEGEZcVNn_EIv6LtspvhujxU/edit
liopoil: https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1XZeC6GwRPB0Na4iCwViLmyp-pirJaAgMN1luNHZlUWs/edit
mail-mi: https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1LmmiP-WzseGTMNGBH0drMYeBc5LpinqhRD32O1Rvuwg/edit
xeiron: https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1Wf0WV0hu6l67w21dFMH2nGIUB33VKrd16ewsZT9eOWw/edit
Actions taken: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlXaywBh9jOcdC1WNHRic0ZiRVVLOW5RN0dJWkplZmc#gid=0
Reference sheet for powers, payments, etc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lhMZZbW_cAThhD3Qjbrwt0whCoKrpk_lXuDVLKe2qQo/edit
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Robz, we are idiots. Why did we not just kill me right away?? Good gravy.
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Robz, we are idiots. Why did we not just kill me right away?? Good gravy.
I was wondering that myself.
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Robz, I remember in DS9 when you thought I was godfather you were a bit annoyed that joth would put godfather in a closed setup. In what way is a townie who shows up as scum to investigations in a closed setup better than that?
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Got to hand it to Robz, he balances these complicated games of his VERY well. Well modded!
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Robz, we are idiots. Why did we not just kill me right away?? Good gravy.
I was wondering that myself.
As soon as your night kill succeeded, you had won. But you guys didn't realize it!
There were some things that could have stopped your night kill, though. Insomniac bus drove the wrong people, and you avoided the commuter (who didn't commute any way).
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Got to hand it to Robz, he balances these complicated games of his VERY well. Well modded!
Cant wait for your next one, especially if it's a tad smaller than this.
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Robz, we are idiots. Why did we not just kill me right away?? Good gravy.
I was wondering that myself.
As soon as your night kill succeeded, you had won. But you guys didn't realize it!
There were some things that could have stopped your night kill, though. Insomniac bus drove the wrong people, and you avoided the commuter (who didn't commute any way).
So scum bough the doctor that one night?
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Robz, I remember in DS9 when you thought I was godfather you were a bit annoyed that joth would put godfather in a closed setup. In what way is a townie who shows up as scum to investigations in a closed setup better than that?
Because this isn't a closed setup. Possession was on the board. Anyone who went through that room knew it was there. SEVERAL players did. Yuma even said so in thread. There were four different investigation items on the board; Possession was there to counterbalance it.
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Robz, we are idiots. Why did we not just kill me right away?? Good gravy.
I was wondering that myself.
As soon as your night kill succeeded, you had won. But you guys didn't realize it!
There were some things that could have stopped your night kill, though. Insomniac bus drove the wrong people, and you avoided the commuter (who didn't commute any way).
So scum bough the doctor that one night?
No, Jimm did. He used it; it didn't help. Scum smartly avoided killing IC sudgy for precisely the reason that they feared he would attract protection. And he did! Twice.
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Really, things were very very close to going town's way. You were so close to lynching raerae yesterday! Jorbles would have had a tough time winning from that position, I think.
Town simply misused (not deliberately) its PRs. Jimm's doc and Insomniac's bus drive both misfired. Yuma roleblocked the pillage but not the kill.
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I would have commuted and bought & used the monument (making me an IC) the following nigh too.
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So, Arch, was that a real live slip or a flat out attempt to get lynched?
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I would have commuted and bought & used the monument (making me an IC) the following nigh too.
I was surprised that you didn't commute last night, since you knew about the double vengekill, and probably should had assumed you would lose the game today if the kill succeeded at all. But it wouldn't have mattered.
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So, Arch, was that a real live slip or a flat out attempt to get lynched?
Oh god are you kidding? It was the biggest slip ever in the history of slips.
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So, Arch, was that a real live slip or a flat out attempt to get lynched?
Oh god are you kidding? It was the biggest slip ever in the history of slips.
He called it a "slip" in the QT...
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Hey we won! Hooray my first win. Still catching up on everything, but will comment in a second.
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Seriously, Robz, crazy fun (emphasis on crazy) but if I could never draw scum again, that would be great.
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Shame on you all for not listening to me yesterday.
see the QT for my most compelling case on you ever... I think I had like 35 points... raerae and jorbles did you use parts of it in your case on ash?
If so I will live forever in my shame.
I was going to steal from it, but I thought I should make it authentic by actually reading up on ash, and I mostly just used it to pick out a few things to watch and rebuilt a new case myself. It helped, but seriously, ash's d2 play made it write itself. I almost believed it was an ash-jimmm scum team.
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It sucks that Town lost, but I am pleased that I was right about the Kooshie bussing thing, and that I correctly identified Jorbles (and one of Insom/raerae) as scum.
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Shame on you all for not listening to me yesterday.
see the QT for my most compelling case on you ever... I think I had like 35 points... raerae and jorbles did you use parts of it in your case on ash?
If so I will live forever in my shame.
I'll check it out. But really, you thought I was scum? You used to read me so well.
You were pretty scummy....
You should all know by now that "pretty scummy" is just "me."
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Shame on you all for not listening to me yesterday.
see the QT for my most compelling case on you ever... I think I had like 35 points... raerae and jorbles did you use parts of it in your case on ash?
If so I will live forever in my shame.
I unabashedly stole it and only read back to find quotes. I have no regrets.
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Robz, we are idiots. Why did we not just kill me right away?? Good gravy.
I was expecting you to vote in your initial claim post, but when you didn't I had to play along and draw it out. When Jimmmm finally voted I could hammer.
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It sucks that Town lost, but I am pleased that I was right about the Kooshie bussing thing, and that I correctly identified Jorbles (and one of Insom/raerae) as scum.
I take cold comfort that I identified the scum pair on the last day I was alive based on interactions and posts. I had honest-to-goodness great cases on them. But no one believed me.
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MVP would be betwee Jorbles, raerae, and Eevee. Jorbles and raerae for their win, obviously, and Eevee for being the townie who was the closest to putting it altogether. There was a point where like everything he was saying was correct, but then Insomniac came in and hammered ash.
I think Jorbles gets the nod. I think he came up with more of the schemes and really, really avoided suspicion the most of the scum.
MVP: Jorbles.
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MVP would be betwee Jorbles, raerae, and Eevee. Jorbles and raerae for their win, obviously, and Eevee for being the townie who was the closest to putting it altogether. There was a point where like everything he was saying was correct, but then Insomniac came in and hammered ash.
I think Jorbles gets the nod. I think he came up with more of the schemes and really, really avoided suspicion the most of the scum.
MVP: Jorbles.
Avoided suspicion, except for mine, which started publically on D1. But well played, for sure.
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Shame on you all for not listening to me yesterday.
see the QT for my most compelling case on you ever... I think I had like 35 points... raerae and jorbles did you use parts of it in your case on ash?
If so I will live forever in my shame.
I'll check it out. But really, you thought I was scum? You used to read me so well.
You were pretty scummy....
You should all know by now that "pretty scummy" is just "me."
That's such a bad meta, and something that you need to work on if you want to improve your likelihood of winning as Town (and scum I guess).
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MVP would be betwee Jorbles, raerae, and Eevee. Jorbles and raerae for their win, obviously, and Eevee for being the townie who was the closest to putting it altogether. There was a point where like everything he was saying was correct, but then Insomniac came in and hammered ash.
I think Jorbles gets the nod. I think he came up with more of the schemes and really, really avoided suspicion the most of the scum.
MVP: Jorbles.
I support the hell out of this. Cheers, Jorbles!!
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It sucks that Town lost, but I am pleased that I was right about the Kooshie bussing thing, and that I correctly identified Jorbles (and one of Insom/raerae) as scum.
I take cold comfort that I identified the scum pair on the last day I was alive based on interactions and posts. I had honest-to-goodness great cases on them. But no one believed me.
Ashersky, this is absolutely true don't get me wrong. I think you generally have pretty good reads, especially as the game goes on. But by then, nobody believes you!
Seriously though, I expected town to win before the ashersky lynch. It seemed like Eevee, Jimm, and ashersky were all on the same page, and they were totally correct in the things they were saying. And then ash got lynched instead of raerae.
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Seriously though, I expected town to win before the ashersky lynch. It seemed like Eevee, Jimm, and ashersky were all on the same page, and they were totally correct in the things they were saying. And then ash got lynched instead of raerae.
Yep, the ash lynch destroyed us.
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It sucks that Town lost, but I am pleased that I was right about the Kooshie bussing thing, and that I correctly identified Jorbles (and one of Insom/raerae) as scum.
I take cold comfort that I identified the scum pair on the last day I was alive based on interactions and posts. I had honest-to-goodness great cases on them. But no one believed me.
you totally had us dead to rights, but you were as scummy as us. I made a point of trying to lay my case out in a way that we could push it through if either Eevee or Insomniac bought it. Eevee pulled back, but Insom hammering was great.
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So what was compelling enough to make Ash's lynch go through?
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So what was compelling enough to make Ash's lynch go through?
Me being scummier than both of you, probably.
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So what was compelling enough to make Ash's lynch go through?
Me being scummier than both of you, probably.
But, to quote Eevee, "Lynch Mafia, Not Scum.' LMNS should be my motto.
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So what was compelling enough to make Ash's lynch go through?
Me being scummier than both of you, probably.
That's helpful.
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So what was compelling enough to make Ash's lynch go through?
Well, sudgy was just on the wrong page, and Insomniac thought that if he didn't hammer ash, he would be the lynch choice. And he knew that would be bad. So I think that's what happened.
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Really, things were very very close to going town's way. You were so close to lynching raerae yesterday! Jorbles would have had a tough time winning from that position, I think.
Town simply misused (not deliberately) its PRs. Jimm's doc and Insomniac's bus drive both misfired. Yuma roleblocked the pillage but not the kill.
well at least I can feel good about that. Who did the NK. Please don't say it was arch...
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Really, things were very very close to going town's way. You were so close to lynching raerae yesterday! Jorbles would have had a tough time winning from that position, I think.
Town simply misused (not deliberately) its PRs. Jimm's doc and Insomniac's bus drive both misfired. Yuma roleblocked the pillage but not the kill.
well at least I can feel good about that. Who did the NK. Please don't say it was arch...
Okay then, I won't say it...
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Robz, we are idiots. Why did we not just kill me right away?? Good gravy.
I was wondering that myself.
As soon as your night kill succeeded, you had won. But you guys didn't realize it!
There were some things that could have stopped your night kill, though. Insomniac bus drove the wrong people, and you avoided the commuter (who didn't commute any way).
We could have still lost if I had been lynched. I just needed to not be quicklynched by Eevee, Jimmm and sudgy, something I admit was a longshot, but having the Talisman meant I just needed to wait for one other person to vote. Raerae's claim was more to draw votes away from me than to actually succeed, that and to slow things down.
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Robz, we are idiots. Why did we not just kill me right away?? Good gravy.
I was wondering that myself.
As soon as your night kill succeeded, you had won. But you guys didn't realize it!
There were some things that could have stopped your night kill, though. Insomniac bus drove the wrong people, and you avoided the commuter (who didn't commute any way).
We could have still lost if I had been lynched. I just needed to not be quicklynched by Eevee, Jimmm and sudgy, something I admit was a longshot, but having the Talisman meant I just needed to wait for one other person to vote. Raerae's claim was more to draw votes away from me than to actually succeed, that and to slow things down.
Sorry I didn't vote straight off the bat. I am apparently awful at being scum. And thinking things all the way through...
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Shame on you all for not listening to me yesterday.
see the QT for my most compelling case on you ever... I think I had like 35 points... raerae and jorbles did you use parts of it in your case on ash?
If so I will live forever in my shame.
I'll check it out. But really, you thought I was scum? You used to read me so well.
You were pretty scummy....
You should all know by now that "pretty scummy" is just "me."
well this time it was more than just your meta. It was where you were on wagons, opinions, statements... you know things that could actually be supported. But maybe I just wanted you to be scum because town was headed that direction and I wanted to win.
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Time to shamelessly plug the games that are open for sign-ups (multiple RMMs, Mean Girls, Knights). Shakespeare can start quickly, if needed. I don't know where the others are in their prep. We're down to one game active!
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Shame on you all for not listening to me yesterday.
see the QT for my most compelling case on you ever... I think I had like 35 points... raerae and jorbles did you use parts of it in your case on ash?
If so I will live forever in my shame.
I'll check it out. But really, you thought I was scum? You used to read me so well.
You were pretty scummy....
You should all know by now that "pretty scummy" is just "me."
well this time it was more than just your meta. It was where you were on wagons, opinions, statements... you know things that could actually be supported. But maybe I just wanted you to be scum because town was headed that direction and I wanted to win.
My voting was no worse than yours, for example. And I had darn good cases on raerae/Jorbles that last day. As Robz mentioned, my reads improved as the game went forward.
I was definitely way wrong on Ozle, though. But he's scummy the way I'm scummy, I think, just inherently.
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MVP would be betwee Jorbles, raerae, and Eevee. Jorbles and raerae for their win, obviously, and Eevee for being the townie who was the closest to putting it altogether. There was a point where like everything he was saying was correct, but then Insomniac came in and hammered ash.
I think Jorbles gets the nod. I think he came up with more of the schemes and really, really avoided suspicion the most of the scum.
MVP: Jorbles.
I support the hell out of this. Cheers, Jorbles!!
yay! my first win, and nominated for mvp! I couldn't have done it without you. Raerae you were a great scumbuddy. Arch, on the other hand, you got some 'splaining to do! :P
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Yeah, this was my second straight game where I lived until the end and had a perfect voting record. That's 9 straight days! Y'all ought to listen to me more!
Makes losing less sour.. but only by very little. That one evening where Jimmm, ash and myself found consensus was great. Such a shame we couldn't pull through.
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I was definitely way wrong on Ozle, though. But he's scummy the way I'm scummy, I think, just inherently.
Haha, I definitely disagree! Spectating, I thought Ozle was super townie and you were super scummy. :P
And the whole time through I was saying, "crap, ash is so scummy, but he is always scummy... where do I draw the line for him?"
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Really, things were very very close to going town's way. You were so close to lynching raerae yesterday! Jorbles would have had a tough time winning from that position, I think.
Town simply misused (not deliberately) its PRs. Jimm's doc and Insomniac's bus drive both misfired. Yuma roleblocked the pillage but not the kill.
well at least I can feel good about that. Who did the NK. Please don't say it was arch...
Okay then, I won't say it...
If it was the night Arch did the kill he had a special kill due to buying the Royal Seal (which I actually think was a little OP for its $3 price tag, but oh well :P). It made his kill go first in the stack so it would happen before roleblocks/doctors making it essentially a Strongman kill. We were having him do all the kills while he had it.
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Shame on you all for not listening to me yesterday.
:(
I had the scum team dead to rights (finally), but you killed me instead. Insom, why?
you've seen the case I had on you and lynching me would have been very bad as I had one shot bus driver and tried to get raerae to shoot herself last night
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Shame on you all for not listening to me yesterday.
see the QT for my most compelling case on you ever... I think I had like 35 points... raerae and jorbles did you use parts of it in your case on ash?
If so I will live forever in my shame.
I'll check it out. But really, you thought I was scum? You used to read me so well.
You were pretty scummy....
You should all know by now that "pretty scummy" is just "me."
well this time it was more than just your meta. It was where you were on wagons, opinions, statements... you know things that could actually be supported. But maybe I just wanted you to be scum because town was headed that direction and I wanted to win.
My voting was no worse than yours, for example. And I had darn good cases on raerae/Jorbles that last day. As Robz mentioned, my reads improved as the game went forward.
I was definitely way wrong on Ozle, though. But he's scummy the way I'm scummy, I think, just inherently.
well yes, and that is why I wasn't surprised when people were voting for me. I mean, I am still surprised I didn't get lynched and that I was NKed.
That was actually the biggest thing ash. I thought that you knew that I would be coming after you, so you felt that you had to kill me. It was how I rationalized me getting killed instead of sudgy. I didn't have the doc information I guess.
And this game wasn't a closed setup. It was semi-closed. Not everyone was given the same amount of setup information. I for example never knew there was even the potential of vengekills. And most of that was based of which doors I went through--or random luck--yes, part of it was that people with more coins got to explore more.
Also.... Not having Ozle really, really hurt in the end. They woulnd't hvae been able to pull that scheme off at the end if we had one more townie alive.
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PRs that went to Scum (Useful ones in bold)
$3 Watchtower -- Know who is in the room with you during the night. (permanent)
$5 Talisman -- For the next day, your vote counts double. (1-shot)
$3 Royal Seal -- When you submit an action or use an item, it will resolve first. (Permanent)
$12 Ill-Gotten Gains -- If you are lynched, you may choose another player. That player will also die.
$10 Forge -- When you are in a room with an empty vault, you may use this to gain an item from an empty vault.
$3 Grand Market -- Unlimited buys (Permanent)
$5P Possession -- Choose a player. For the rest of the game, that player will become a Miller; his alignment will appear as scum for all investigative or Innocent Child purposes. (1-shot)
PRs that went to Town
$1 Loan -- When you buy this, +$3. At the end of the next day, earn $1 less than you would (but not less than zero). (1-shot)
$2 Embargo -- When you play this, no other player may enter or leave the room you are currently in until the next night begins (1-shot)
$5 Moat -- When a player uses an item on you, it will have no effect. (1-shot)
$2 Quarry -- You may use this just as you are buying an item. The cost of that item is lowered by $4. (1-shot)
8 Oracle -- Name 2 other players. You will be told if at least 1 of them are scum. (1-shot)
$3 Rabble -- Choose a player. That player will be roleblocked. (1-shot)
$6 Noble Brigand -- Name two players. Those two players will be Bus Driven. Any action taken against one will instead impact the other. (1-shot)
$9 Platinum Key -- It now costs $3 for all members of your faction to enter a Platinum Room.
$6 Treasure Map -- See the entire layout of the Bank. (Permanent)
$6 Treasure Map -- See the entire layout of the Bank. (Permanent)
$6 Gold Key -- It now costs $2 for all members of your faction to enter a Gold Room. (permanent)
$8 Saboteur -- Name a player. That player will be doctored. (1-shot)
$9 Island -- You may commute. You will be out of the game while all actions resolve. You are then returned to the game. (1-shot)
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Shame on you all for not listening to me yesterday.
:(
I had the scum team dead to rights (finally), but you killed me instead. Insom, why?
you've seen the case I had on you and lynching me would have been very bad as I had one shot bus driver and tried to get raerae to shoot herself last night
So...assisted suicide?
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Robz, we are idiots. Why did we not just kill me right away?? Good gravy.
I was wondering that myself.
As soon as your night kill succeeded, you had won. But you guys didn't realize it!
There were some things that could have stopped your night kill, though. Insomniac bus drove the wrong people, and you avoided the commuter (who didn't commute any way).
We could have still lost if I had been lynched. I just needed to not be quicklynched by Eevee, Jimmm and sudgy, something I admit was a longshot, but having the Talisman meant I just needed to wait for one other person to vote. Raerae's claim was more to draw votes away from me than to actually succeed, that and to slow things down.
Sorry I didn't vote straight off the bat. I am apparently awful at being scum. And thinking things all the way through...
I thought you were waiting to make sure I was online. So I posted something innocuous so you'd know I was, but then you still didn't vote so I went and played video games for a bit and checked back in. ;)
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Also btw I pmd robz last night the scum team, i was just trying to decide who they would shoot and who would shoot. (I said it was raerae/jorbles) I thought raerae would shoot and that she would shoot sudgy. I never in a million years thought I would be the NK.
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And this game wasn't a closed setup. It was semi-closed. Not everyone was given the same amount of setup information. I for example never knew there was even the potential of vengekills. And most of that was based of which doors I went through--or random luck--yes, part of it was that people with more coins got to explore more.
Also.... Not having Ozle really, really hurt in the end. They woulnd't hvae been able to pull that scheme off at the end if we had one more townie alive.
Well, I think your method of playing might have hurt you there. I think the town might have benefited from sharing more information. it was really important to get into the Platinum Room, so some coordination there may have helped.
But scum didn't have the double vengekills until last night. It does seem a bit crazy and bastard that it ended like that, but really that was just the culmination of nights and nights of scum plotting, that would have failed if you guys caught on just one death earlier.
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Shame on you all for not listening to me yesterday.
:(
I had the scum team dead to rights (finally), but you killed me instead. Insom, why?
you've seen the case I had on you and lynching me would have been very bad as I had one shot bus driver and tried to get raerae to shoot herself last night
Instead she Pillaged herself. It was a smart play to try and do that. I knew someone had the Doctor which is why I didn't want to kill sudgy. Extra lucky that it also meant we didn't shoot ourselves.
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Also btw I pmd robz last night the scum team, i was just trying to decide who they would shoot and who would shoot. (I said it was raerae/jorbles) I thought raerae would shoot and that she would shoot sudgy. I never in a million years thought I would be the NK.
That's one example of how scum outplayed you guys, though. They were never on their game more than when they were picking night targets. They wisely avoided obvious shots, and it mega mega paid off.
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Oh god I didn't even think of Ozle. Yeah, that ended up costing you guys. Big time.
I would have modkilled him at that point regardless of his alignment though.
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Also btw I pmd robz last night the scum team, i was just trying to decide who they would shoot and who would shoot. (I said it was raerae/jorbles) I thought raerae would shoot and that she would shoot sudgy. I never in a million years thought I would be the NK.
That's one example of how scum outplayed you guys, though. They were never on their game more than when they were picking night targets. They wisely avoided obvious shots, and it mega mega paid off.
I actually thought about targeting Eevee for a while instead of sudgy. But no matter who I chose I couldn't win because they decided to kill me.
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Oh god I didn't even think of Ozle. Yeah, that ended up costing you guys. Big time.
I would have modkilled him at that point regardless of his alignment though.
yeah... super sucked. And I don't blame you for the mod kill. I blame Ozle for bailing on us.
And, sorry, one more little criticism. I think one of the biggest problems with games with 13+ players is that it also saps the pool for potential replacements and makes subbing into a game over whelming if you don't do it before day2. In another game a day4 replacement is possible. In this one I doubt you even considered it.
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Oh god I didn't even think of Ozle. Yeah, that ended up costing you guys. Big time.
I would have modkilled him at that point regardless of his alignment though.
yeah... super sucked. And I don't blame you for the mod kill. I blame Ozle for bailing on us.
And, sorry, one more little criticism. I think one of the biggest problems with games with 13+ players is that it also saps the pool for potential replacements and makes subbing into a game over whelming if you don't do it before day2. In another game a day4 replacement is possible. In this one I doubt you even considered it.
Oh I don't disagree with you at all there. Although I would be loathe to make a Day 4 replacement in any game of any number. The specific problem here too, which I didn't think of, is we couldn't have sub-backs, because everyone was still "in" the game, in the qts. So that was definitely a flaw I hadn't considered.
The reason I wanted a lot of players was to make the exploratory phase of the game worthwhile. But I do think the consensus among players is for smaller games, so I won't run one with so many people again.
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PRs that went to Scum (Useful ones in bold)
$3 Watchtower -- Know who is in the room with you during the night. (permanent)
$5 Talisman -- For the next day, your vote counts double. (1-shot)
$9 Platinum Key -- It now costs $3 for all members of your faction to enter a Platinum Room.
$3 Royal Seal -- When you submit an action or use an item, it will resolve first. (Permanent)
$12 Ill-Gotten Gains -- If you are lynched, you may choose another player. That player will also die.
$10 Forge -- When you are in a room with an empty vault, you may use this to gain an item from an empty vault.
$3 Grand Market -- Unlimited buys (Permanent)
$5P Possession -- Choose a player. For the rest of the game, that player will become a Miller; his alignment will appear as scum for all investigative or Innocent Child purposes. (1-shot)
PRs that went to Town
$1 Loan -- When you buy this, +$3. At the end of the next day, earn $1 less than you would (but not less than zero). (1-shot)
$2 Embargo -- When you play this, no other player may enter or leave the room you are currently in until the next night begins (1-shot)
$5 Moat -- When a player uses an item on you, it will have no effect. (1-shot)
$2 Quarry -- You may use this just as you are buying an item. The cost of that item is lowered by $4. (1-shot)
8 Oracle -- Name 2 other players. You will be told if at least 1 of them are scum. (1-shot)
$3 Rabble -- Choose a player. That player will be roleblocked. (1-shot)
$6 Noble Brigand -- Name two players. Those two players will be Bus Driven. Any action taken against one will instead impact the other. (1-shot)
$6 Treasure Map -- See the entire layout of the Bank. (Permanent)
$6 Treasure Map -- See the entire layout of the Bank. (Permanent)
$6 Gold Key -- It now costs $2 for all members of your faction to enter a Gold Room. (permanent)
$8 Saboteur -- Name a player. That player will be doctored. (1-shot)
$9 Island -- You may commute. You will be out of the game while all actions resolve. You are then returned to the game. (1-shot)
We didn't buy the Platinum key did we? I remember we killed mcmc because we thought he had it. Actually our kills were really heavily driven by our knowledge of night stuff.
N1-I caught xeiron buying the treasure map because I bid against him on it and then bought the watchtower to ID him. The watchtower ended up being huge btw. We knew our advantage at night was due to having more info than town, so getting an early treasure map claim out of the way was huge.
N2-liopoil we just killed for being towny.
N3-we killed mcmc because we worked out that his crazy talking to himself was about him bidding against Archetype for the Platinum key. We let him buy it and then killed him.
N4-We killed yuma because we knew he'd seen the Talisman and we figured he'd work out how powerful it was right away. (Plus I am totally scared of yuma) We figured sudgy would be protected by someone... he was.
N5-We killed Insomniac because it was kill we thought most likely to go through. We knew sudgy was on the opposite side of the board from the Gold Room where people had bought the Doctor and Commute. I really doubted anyone would protect Insomniac with the Doctor, so we'd narrowed down those purchases to Jimmmm, Eevee and ash (who was dead). When I bumped into Insomniac on the other side of the board far from that room I knew that Eevee and Jimmm had bought the Doctor and the Commute. We couldn't risk trying to shoot the Commuter so we killed Insom.
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Oh god I didn't even think of Ozle. Yeah, that ended up costing you guys. Big time.
I would have modkilled him at that point regardless of his alignment though.
yeah... super sucked. And I don't blame you for the mod kill. I blame Ozle for bailing on us.
And, sorry, one more little criticism. I think one of the biggest problems with games with 13+ players is that it also saps the pool for potential replacements and makes subbing into a game over whelming if you don't do it before day2. In another game a day4 replacement is possible. In this one I doubt you even considered it.
Oh I don't disagree with you at all there. Although I would be loathe to make a Day 4 replacement in any game of any number. The specific problem here too, which I didn't think of, is we couldn't have sub-backs, because everyone was still "in" the game, in the qts. So that was definitely a flaw I hadn't considered.
Yes sub-backs is the only way to do ~ day4 subs. And this game wasn't possible, you are right.
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EDIT Jorbles is correct, town bought the Platinum Key.
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And this game wasn't a closed setup. It was semi-closed. Not everyone was given the same amount of setup information. I for example never knew there was even the potential of vengekills. And most of that was based of which doors I went through--or random luck--yes, part of it was that people with more coins got to explore more.
Also.... Not having Ozle really, really hurt in the end. They woulnd't hvae been able to pull that scheme off at the end if we had one more townie alive.
Well, I think your method of playing might have hurt you there. I think the town might have benefited from sharing more information. it was really important to get into the Platinum Room, so some coordination there may have helped.
But scum didn't have the double vengekills until last night. It does seem a bit crazy and bastard that it ended like that, but really that was just the culmination of nights and nights of scum plotting, that would have failed if you guys caught on just one death earlier.
Yeah, I was against town sharing info, but it was because I was scum. If I'd been town I would have insisted that everyone share info as much as possible because the scum team got to share so much info that it gave us a huge advantage.
Discovering the double vengekill was like the first time I discovered Chancellor-Stash. It was just a really strong combo that wasn't totally obvious when you first saw it, but once you saw it, it was so clearly the best thing we could do.
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We didn't buy the Platinum key did we? I remember we killed mcmc because we thought he had it. Actually our kills were really heavily driven by our knowledge of night stuff.
N1-I caught xeiron buying the treasure map because I bid against him on it and then bought the watchtower to ID him. The watchtower ended up being huge btw. We knew our advantage at night was due to having more info than town, so getting an early treasure map claim out of the way was huge.
N2-liopoil we just killed for being towny.
N3-we killed mcmc because we worked out that his crazy talking to himself was about him bidding against Archetype for the Platinum key. We let him buy it and then killed him.
N4-We killed yuma because we knew he'd seen the Talisman and we figured he'd work out how powerful it was right away. (Plus I am totally scared of yuma) We figured sudgy would be protected by someone... he was.
N5-We killed Insomniac because it was kill we thought most likely to go through. We knew sudgy was on the opposite side of the board from the Gold Room where people had bought the Doctor and Commute. I really doubted anyone would protect Insomniac with the Doctor, so we'd narrowed down those purchases to Jimmmm, Eevee and ash (who was dead). When I bumped into Insomniac on the other side of the board far from that room I knew that Eevee and Jimmm had bought the Doctor and the Commute. We couldn't risk trying to shoot the Commuter so we killed Insom.
This whole post just shows the huge advantage that scum had over us in the knowledge department... I mean it is a valid advantage but mostly makes me rethink my stance against claiming a bit. Would it have helped us to coordinate. Maybe, maybe not. I think that scum was able to use the fact that they had 3 people constantly watching to a great advantage while I just bumbled around in the dark, and I imagine most other people did as well...
I mean scum always has a "knowledge" advantage to an extent, but in this game it was greatly increased and I think may have been one of the few times were such claiming might actually have benefited town more than scum. Maybe...
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Yeah. Scum's greater knowledge base was their advantage.
Town did get more of the items, though, and create mini ICs from the keys. and other stuff. I was worried all the mutually confirming stuff would really make it too hard for scum.
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I didn't see the double vengekill as such a problem, because it was so, so expensive to obtain. And indeed, it took such a long time. And it only would have worked if raerae died first. If raerae was the last scum, she dies and loses the game before vengekill activates.
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We didn't buy the Platinum key did we? I remember we killed mcmc because we thought he had it. Actually our kills were really heavily driven by our knowledge of night stuff.
N1-I caught xeiron buying the treasure map because I bid against him on it and then bought the watchtower to ID him. The watchtower ended up being huge btw. We knew our advantage at night was due to having more info than town, so getting an early treasure map claim out of the way was huge.
N2-liopoil we just killed for being towny.
N3-we killed mcmc because we worked out that his crazy talking to himself was about him bidding against Archetype for the Platinum key. We let him buy it and then killed him.
N4-We killed yuma because we knew he'd seen the Talisman and we figured he'd work out how powerful it was right away. (Plus I am totally scared of yuma) We figured sudgy would be protected by someone... he was.
N5-We killed Insomniac because it was kill we thought most likely to go through. We knew sudgy was on the opposite side of the board from the Gold Room where people had bought the Doctor and Commute. I really doubted anyone would protect Insomniac with the Doctor, so we'd narrowed down those purchases to Jimmmm, Eevee and ash (who was dead). When I bumped into Insomniac on the other side of the board far from that room I knew that Eevee and Jimmm had bought the Doctor and the Commute. We couldn't risk trying to shoot the Commuter so we killed Insom.
This whole post just shows the huge advantage that scum had over us in the knowledge department... I mean it is a valid advantage but mostly makes me rethink my stance against claiming a bit. Would it have helped us to coordinate. Maybe, maybe not. I think that scum was able to use the fact that they had 3 people constantly watching to a great advantage while I just bumbled around in the dark, and I imagine most other people did as well...
I mean scum always has a "knowledge" advantage to an extent, but in this game it was greatly increased and I think may have been one of the few times were such claiming might actually have benefited town more than scum. Maybe...
It would have helped town a lot especially sharing the map. You guys could have raced and coordinated for the more important items as they came up. We would have known what you were plotting, but couldn't really do much. Also I think a mass claim would have helped town here. I never bought a pro-town item so I would have had to come up with some weak excuse for why I hadn't done that. I bought the Watchtower, Possession and the Talisman. Town would have never bought those things.
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We didn't buy the Platinum key did we? I remember we killed mcmc because we thought he had it. Actually our kills were really heavily driven by our knowledge of night stuff.
N1-I caught xeiron buying the treasure map because I bid against him on it and then bought the watchtower to ID him. The watchtower ended up being huge btw. We knew our advantage at night was due to having more info than town, so getting an early treasure map claim out of the way was huge.
N2-liopoil we just killed for being towny.
N3-we killed mcmc because we worked out that his crazy talking to himself was about him bidding against Archetype for the Platinum key. We let him buy it and then killed him.
N4-We killed yuma because we knew he'd seen the Talisman and we figured he'd work out how powerful it was right away. (Plus I am totally scared of yuma) We figured sudgy would be protected by someone... he was.
N5-We killed Insomniac because it was kill we thought most likely to go through. We knew sudgy was on the opposite side of the board from the Gold Room where people had bought the Doctor and Commute. I really doubted anyone would protect Insomniac with the Doctor, so we'd narrowed down those purchases to Jimmmm, Eevee and ash (who was dead). When I bumped into Insomniac on the other side of the board far from that room I knew that Eevee and Jimmm had bought the Doctor and the Commute. We couldn't risk trying to shoot the Commuter so we killed Insom.
This whole post just shows the huge advantage that scum had over us in the knowledge department... I mean it is a valid advantage but mostly makes me rethink my stance against claiming a bit. Would it have helped us to coordinate. Maybe, maybe not. I think that scum was able to use the fact that they had 3 people constantly watching to a great advantage while I just bumbled around in the dark, and I imagine most other people did as well...
I mean scum always has a "knowledge" advantage to an extent, but in this game it was greatly increased and I think may have been one of the few times were such claiming might actually have benefited town more than scum. Maybe...
Glad you are coming around to my way of thinking on claiming!
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This whole post just shows the huge advantage that scum had over us in the knowledge department... I mean it is a valid advantage but mostly makes me rethink my stance against claiming a bit. Would it have helped us to coordinate. Maybe, maybe not. I think that scum was able to use the fact that they had 3 people constantly watching to a great advantage while I just bumbled around in the dark, and I imagine most other people did as well...
I mean scum always has a "knowledge" advantage to an extent, but in this game it was greatly increased and I think may have been one of the few times were such claiming might actually have benefited town more than scum. Maybe...
Glad you are coming around to my way of thinking on claiming!
haha, I actually agreed with you the whole time this game on claiming, I just wasn't on your team. :)
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I didn't see the double vengekill as such a problem, because it was so, so expensive to obtain. And indeed, it took such a long time. And it only would have worked if raerae died first. If raerae was the last scum, she dies and loses the game before vengekill activates.
I guess I am starting to agree with you. But mostly it was just that it came such out of nowhere. I mean it wasn't even kinda on my radar. And I tend to associate that sort of feeling with a RMM game. In a normal game you at least have something of an idea of what could possibly happen in a given day. But that was just WHAM! Game over!
Although I kinda felt that way about joth's game to an extent as well. I think mostly I tend to like games that have been developed, tested and are closed as it focuses more on the actual game play rather than the roles and the randomness. Hence why I tend to not play RMM or BM games, and since this game was more on the RMM side of the normal spectrum that is why I feel this way.
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Glad you are coming around to my way of thinking on claiming!
Oh I probably won't in future games either. I still think that mass claiming tends to be bad for town overall. I think this was an exception.
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Glad you are coming around to my way of thinking on claiming!
Oh I probably won't in future games either. I still think that mass claiming tends to be bad for town overall. I think this was an exception.
I also think that.
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I still think that mass claiming tends to be bad for town overall. I think this was an exception.
I'm thinking we should map-claim. here's why:
I am against any sort of mass claim. It is bad.
Vote: Yuma
Told you guys it was a good idea :(
I think I like games with a full list of possible roles better. I've played three games not like that: DS9, this, and conspiracy theories. conspiracy theories was bastard, so that's okay, but still, a nasty twist at the end. DS9 was shocking with both robz andd yuma being scum, that was unfortunate. this had my investigation being moot and the double vengeful. Though, I agree now that those were okay because town could easily find out about them. I would have found out about the possession if I had been reading closer. Again, people should have claimed!
Anyway, games like these are fine, but games with all possible roles listed are much easier for town to analyze and play better.
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So did anyone else barter war for the entire night??
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So did anyone else barter war for the entire night??
Did you think it was me? It wasn't me.
I will note that I completely missed the night deadline on N2 to do anything, so just sat around. I had the Quarry in my possession from N0 and never got to use it. I spent all my money moving, got to the Gardens, and found nothing there. I made up everything (including the Goons) in the dead QT to try and throw scum off.
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So did anyone else barter war for the entire night??
Yes, Eevee and Jim also triggered an auction over the one-shot doc I beleive.
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oh, by the way, robz, how did you figure out how many coins to give each player each night? I think I got more than most: 7 N1 and 6 N2... but it looks like the scum got loads!
mcmc was bidding against arch, says so in scum QT.
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Haha ooh
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So you guys are going to come play Mean Girls now right? It's going to be super fun and my co-mods are awesome to the possum.
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So you guys are going to come play Mean Girls now right? It's going to be super fun and my co-mods are awesome to the possum.
This!
And also the RMM games that have been waiting for love.
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oh, by the way, robz, how did you figure out how many coins to give each player each night? I think I got more than most: 7 N1 and 6 N2... but it looks like the scum got loads!
mcmc was bidding against arch, says so in scum QT.
Check the doc i posted under the map lists. The miscellaneous stuff one.
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It says I don't have access to that document because I'm not logged into your gmail account :P
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It says I don't have access to that document because I'm not logged into your gmail account :P
fixed
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So did anyone else barter war for the entire night??
Haha Platinum Key right? Figured it was you, so we killed ya. ;)
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EDIT Jorbles is correct, town bought the Platinum Key.
When? You told me it still cost $9 to enter the Platinum room.
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Anyway. I do feel a bit cheated by the ending, but that's the way it goes I guess. Overall it was a great game. Thanks Robz for modding and congrats to scum.
I'm going to take a break from Mafia for a while, maybe six weeks until I'm on holidays.
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Anyway. I do feel a bit cheated by the ending, but that's the way it goes I guess. Overall it was a great game. Thanks Robz for modding and congrats to scum.
I'm going to take a break from Mafia for a while, maybe six weeks until I'm on holidays.
I'll plan for LotR2 to be your return.
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Anyway. I do feel a bit cheated by the ending, but that's the way it goes I guess. Overall it was a great game. Thanks Robz for modding and congrats to scum.
I'm going to take a break from Mafia for a while, maybe six weeks until I'm on holidays.
I'll plan for LotR2 to be your return.
Only if I get to be a Dragon again.
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So, Arch, was that a real live slip or a flat out attempt to get lynched?
Oh god are you kidding? It was the biggest slip ever in the history of slips.
Oh geez that was terrible. I was so mad at myself the entire rest of the game for that. Turns out it didn't matter too much, so woo.
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Did you actually forget to type "and raerae", or did you not realise what Oracle did?
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Also, thanks a bunch to Robz for hosting and a bit to sparky for allowing me to sub in! This game was awesome, but I agree with yuma that it really should have been RMM. DoubleVengekills, Framers, Bus Drivers, etc all should not be a part of a Normal Game. But the game was fun nonetheless, so thanks again Robz and I hope a sequel of sorts is in the works. ;)
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Did you actually forget to type "and raerae", or did you not realise what Oracle did?
I thought that Oracle was a 1-shot straight-up Alignment Investigation, and then after I posted I remembered that I had just seen Counting House, and that cost more, so Oracle couldn't be that. But it was too late when sudgy called me out on it.
I called out raerae specifically to help out the Vengekill thing in the future. Turns out it didn't matter too greatly.
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EDIT Jorbles is correct, town bought the Platinum Key.
When? You told me it still cost $9 to enter the Platinum room.
The player who bought the key was dead by then, so it was no longer in effect.
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EDIT Jorbles is correct, town bought the Platinum Key.
When? You told me it still cost $9 to enter the Platinum room.
I think by the time you tried to enter we had already killed mcmc who'd bought the key. There was only a really short window where town could have taken advantage of it. I think he bought it turn 3 of that night.
PPE: what robz said.
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@Robz: What were the pink spots on the board?
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EDIT Jorbles is correct, town bought the Platinum Key.
When? You told me it still cost $9 to enter the Platinum room.
The player who bought the key was dead by then, so it was no longer in effect.
Oh. I didn't realise it worked like that.
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@Robz: What were the pink spots on the board?
One had a Potion for free, the other had $6.
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Oh, this is one of the docs, but in case you missed it:
Deposits for Town
+$2 for voting for scum lynch
+$3 for hammering scum
-$1 for hammering town
+$2 for receiving no votes
+$2 for being the townie who has uncovered most of the map at the end of each night
+$1 for voting for at least 1 scum
Deposits for Scum
+$2 for voting for town lynch
+$4 for hammering town
+$1 per townie who did not vote for you (max $4) (if half the town votes for you, cut this in half, added)
-$1 for getting to L-1 (once per scum per round)
Deposits for Either
+$4 for having the most posts of the day
+$1 for surviving a day
+$1 for being in a Copper Room at the end of night
+$2 for being in a Silver Room at the end of night
+$3 for being in a Gold Room at the end of night
+$5 for being in a Platinum Room at the end of night
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I really like how you structured those.
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We should have made each player vote for each other player at least once each day.
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Oh nvm +$2 for receiving no votes.
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Everyone voting for everyone at the start of every day would have definitely hurt scum more than town, but you had no way of knowing that, and it could have been the opposite. And it would hurt town too.
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So a couple players got on sprees basically, usually because of post count. Off the top of my head I think liopoil, yuma, and Eevee all had days as the top poster than really got them a lot of cash. And ending the night in a silver or gold or platinum room (or the poorhouse) was a really good thing to do.
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PRs that went to Scum (Useful ones in bold)
$3 Watchtower -- Know who is in the room with you during the night. (permanent)
$5 Talisman -- For the next day, your vote counts double. (1-shot)
$3 Royal Seal -- When you submit an action or use an item, it will resolve first. (Permanent)
$12 Ill-Gotten Gains -- If you are lynched, you may choose another player. That player will also die.
$10 Forge -- When you are in a room with an empty vault, you may use this to gain an item from an empty vault.
$3 Grand Market -- Unlimited buys (Permanent)
$5P Possession -- Choose a player. For the rest of the game, that player will become a Miller; his alignment will appear as scum for all investigative or Innocent Child purposes. (1-shot)
PRs that went to Town
$1 Loan -- When you buy this, +$3. At the end of the next day, earn $1 less than you would (but not less than zero). (1-shot)
$2 Embargo -- When you play this, no other player may enter or leave the room you are currently in until the next night begins (1-shot)
$5 Moat -- When a player uses an item on you, it will have no effect. (1-shot)
$2 Quarry -- You may use this just as you are buying an item. The cost of that item is lowered by $4. (1-shot)
8 Oracle -- Name 2 other players. You will be told if at least 1 of them are scum. (1-shot)
$3 Rabble -- Choose a player. That player will be roleblocked. (1-shot)
$6 Noble Brigand -- Name two players. Those two players will be Bus Driven. Any action taken against one will instead impact the other. (1-shot)
$9 Platinum Key -- It now costs $3 for all members of your faction to enter a Platinum Room.
$6 Treasure Map -- See the entire layout of the Bank. (Permanent)
$6 Treasure Map -- See the entire layout of the Bank. (Permanent)
$6 Gold Key -- It now costs $2 for all members of your faction to enter a Gold Room. (permanent)
$8 Saboteur -- Name a player. That player will be doctored. (1-shot)
$9 Island -- You may commute. You will be out of the game while all actions resolve. You are then returned to the game. (1-shot)
You forgot my lookout
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So a couple players got on sprees basically, usually because of post count. Off the top of my head I think liopoil, yuma, and Eevee all had days as the top poster than really got them a lot of cash. And ending the night in a silver or gold or platinum room (or the poorhouse) was a really good thing to do.
I for sure felt like I had a lot of cash in my disposal at all times. And that I wasn't able to do anything at all with it until very late in the game.
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The only time I felt like I had any worthwhile amount of money was after the Arch lynch, when I had $9 and spent it on Doctoring sudgy. I figured that meant you get heaps for lynching scum.
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Oh, this is one of the docs, but in case you missed it:
Deposits for Town
+$2 for voting for scum lynch
+$3 for hammering scum
-$1 for hammering town
+$2 for receiving no votes
+$2 for being the townie who has uncovered most of the map at the end of each night
+$1 for voting for at least 1 scum
Deposits for Scum
+$2 for voting for town lynch
+$4 for hammering town
+$1 per townie who did not vote for you (max $4) (if half the town votes for you, cut this in half, added)
-$1 for getting to L-1 (once per scum per round)
Deposits for Either
+$4 for having the most posts of the day
+$1 for surviving a day
+$1 for being in a Copper Room at the end of night
+$2 for being in a Silver Room at the end of night
+$3 for being in a Gold Room at the end of night
+$5 for being in a Platinum Room at the end of night
Where was my nightly +2 for having the TM?
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EDIT Jorbles is correct, town bought the Platinum Key.
When? You told me it still cost $9 to enter the Platinum room.
The player who bought the key was dead by then, so it was no longer in effect.
I thought you said somewhere that the effect was permanent, even if the buyer died...
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EDIT Jorbles is correct, town bought the Platinum Key.
When? You told me it still cost $9 to enter the Platinum room.
The player who bought the key was dead by then, so it was no longer in effect.
I thought you said somewhere that the effect was permanent, even if the buyer died...
So did I.
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Shoot, I meant to do this sooner. I wanted to apologize for slowing the game down by not being around much. Yes, I was scum so I think, in some way, it worked to my advantage, but that was 100% unintentional. Super props to yuma for keeping the conversation flowing day after day.
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Super props to yuma for keeping the conversation flowing day after day.
a whole lot of good it did!
I actually think that town would have been in better shape had we lynched jimmm when we first had a chance day2 early. That day2 sucked the life out of us. The only thing that gave us a fighting chance was arch's slip. If not for that we would have been doomed. I was a potential mislynch, along with ash... game over.
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Oh, this is one of the docs, but in case you missed it:
Deposits for Town
+$2 for voting for scum lynch
+$3 for hammering scum
-$1 for hammering town
+$2 for receiving no votes
+$2 for being the townie who has uncovered most of the map at the end of each night
+$1 for voting for at least 1 scum
Deposits for Scum
+$2 for voting for town lynch
+$4 for hammering town
+$1 per townie who did not vote for you (max $4) (if half the town votes for you, cut this in half, added)
-$1 for getting to L-1 (once per scum per round)
Deposits for Either
+$4 for having the most posts of the day
+$1 for surviving a day
+$1 for being in a Copper Room at the end of night
+$2 for being in a Silver Room at the end of night
+$3 for being in a Gold Room at the end of night
+$5 for being in a Platinum Room at the end of night
Where was my nightly +2 for having the TM?
It didn't count TM. It was most without TM.
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EDIT Jorbles is correct, town bought the Platinum Key.
When? You told me it still cost $9 to enter the Platinum room.
The player who bought the key was dead by then, so it was no longer in effect.
I thought you said somewhere that the effect was permanent, even if the buyer died...
So did I.
In the scum qt I said it was not permanent. Did I say otherwise in thread? I apologize if I did.
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I'm kind of mad we killed liopoil. If you read the captured players QT, there would have been a lot of confusion if liopoil claimed that one of ash or sudgy is scum.
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I'm kind of mad we killed liopoil. If you read the captured players QT, there would have been a lot of confusion if liopoil claimed that one of ash or sudgy is scum.
Yeah, kindof made the Possession a bit of a waste, but we shouldn't complain with all the misdirected things town did.
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It's always annoying when I check a mafia thread and suddenly, "SCUM WIN"
Anyways, other than that, it was a great game. But I don't really want to play in this big of a game again...
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Yay! But I didn't help at all...
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Thank you Robz, it was a great game, even if I didn't get to play much and only watched it half the time.
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Time to shamelessly plug the games that are open for sign-ups (multiple RMMs, Mean Girls, Knights). Shakespeare can start quickly, if needed. I don't know where the others are in their prep. We're down to one game active!
HP ready whenever.
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Time to shamelessly plug the games that are open for sign-ups (multiple RMMs, Mean Girls, Knights). Shakespeare can start quickly, if needed. I don't know where the others are in their prep. We're down to one game active!
HP ready whenever.
Innovation Inc. too.
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Time to shamelessly plug the games that are open for sign-ups (multiple RMMs, Mean Girls, Knights). Shakespeare can start quickly, if needed. I don't know where the others are in their prep. We're down to one game active!
HP ready whenever.
Innovation Inc. too.
let's try to get the games that are ahead in the que filled up first, eh?
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Time to shamelessly plug the games that are open for sign-ups (multiple RMMs, Mean Girls, Knights). Shakespeare can start quickly, if needed. I don't know where the others are in their prep. We're down to one game active!
HP ready whenever.
Innovation Inc. too.
let's try to get the games that are ahead in the que filled up first, eh?
Well technically my game's first, but when ashersky resurrected Shakespere, it pushed mine behind it.
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Time to shamelessly plug the games that are open for sign-ups (multiple RMMs, Mean Girls, Knights). Shakespeare can start quickly, if needed. I don't know where the others are in their prep. We're down to one game active!
HP ready whenever.
Innovation Inc. too.
let's try to get the games that are ahead in the que filled up first, eh?
Well technically my game's first, but when ashersky resurrected Shakespere, it pushed mine behind it.
I think whichever of the RMMs can fill should start immediately. I didn't mean to jump ahead with Shakespeare, although I'm keeping the number.
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Time to shamelessly plug the games that are open for sign-ups (multiple RMMs, Mean Girls, Knights). Shakespeare can start quickly, if needed. I don't know where the others are in their prep. We're down to one game active!
HP ready whenever.
Innovation Inc. too.
let's try to get the games that are ahead in the que filled up first, eh?
Well technically my game's first, but when ashersky resurrected Shakespere, it pushed mine behind it.
I think whichever of the RMMs can fill should start immediately. I didn't mean to jump ahead with Shakespeare, although I'm keeping the number.
Oh totally. I was just trying to explain to Yuma that I wasn't jumping ahead in the queue.
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and my two cents--and this convo should probably be in the mafia index or something... but anyways... was that while I appreciate having multiple games open, it is hard for the them to fill when 2 people go here, 2 people go there, 2 people in another one. If we got all 6 in the same one we would be golden. That is all. I have no idea which one is first in the RMMM game.
As far as the normal games, raerae's is next followed by shraeye and myself.
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and my two cents--and this convo should probably be in the mafia index or something... but anyways... was that while I appreciate having multiple games open, it is hard for the them to fill when 2 people go here, 2 people go there, 2 people in another one. If we got all 6 in the same one we would be golden. That is all. I have no idea which one is first in the RMMM game.
That's why I said in the index that I would be invisibly signed up for all of them until one has one person left, and I'll jump into that one.
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and my two cents--and this convo should probably be in the mafia index or something... but anyways... was that while I appreciate having multiple games open, it is hard for the them to fill when 2 people go here, 2 people go there, 2 people in another one. If we got all 6 in the same one we would be golden. That is all. I have no idea which one is first in the RMMM game.
That's why I said in the index that I would be invisibly signed up for all of them until one has one person left, and I'll jump into that one.
I think there's several people in the same boat, though, and it would be more productive to getting it filled if those people signed up, rather than waiting to see which one fills first.
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ANY game that can fill should start immediately. we only have one game going!