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[Jimmmmm]

Sudgy, I guess I'm fine with the ash lynch. I just don't love it very much..

What does this mean?

[ashersky]

Do we want to talk about things we've done/bought/had at night?

If it will help town, yes.  If it's just saying what your map looks like, that's pointless.

..

:O

I just realized - someone bought a Talisman (I'm not sure who).  It's one shot and gives you doublevoting for a day when you use it.  Scum could push their way through LyLo with it.  If you're town, please say that you have it so we know scum doesn't (I know scum could say so too, oh well).

I know a lot about the map which could help town, I think.

Well then, what is it?  If it will help town, claim away.

I bought a TM, so I have the full layout.  I've been able to confirm locations/room colors when people map claim.  I know the names and locations of a number of rooms in the Bank.  I know the contents of some rooms, and some rooms that have nothing in them, and some rooms that do things when you are there.

I can make a giant list, if folks want.

I think this sort of information is useful for town members deciding what they want to do during the night.  If I had known some of what I've learned before I learned it, I would have gone in different directions during my exploring, for example.  I don't think it helps scum that much for them to know, since they've probably gotten the full layout by now.

I also have one unused card.

[ashersky]

Raerae DOES tend to build like that though, it's her way of scumhunting (a very effective one too, if I may add). Amd I thought that the case was well-made, certainly didn't feel forced or anything like that.

Maybe, but not this game, up to this point.  It's like she remembered how she plays as town and went "Crap!  Gots to act like that again!"

[raerae]

This finger pointing is all well and good, ash, but you've been prompted to come up with a case and refuse to do anything but piggy back on things people have said and try to force them to apply to me. If you're truly town try doing something helpful instead of half-butted scumhunting.

[Eevee]

Sudgy, I guess I'm fine with the ash lynch. I just don't love it very much..

What does this mean?

Hedging here. I feel as though ashersky wouldnt go down like this as scum.. but his play doesnt make much sense for a townie. I dont have any clear better alternative, Jorbles, Insomniac or raerae I guess.

[Eevee]

Ashersky, I dont think you should claim that. We dont have that many nights left, not much wandering is going to happen anyways. You'd basically let scum now what powers we might be buying (if any).

[ashersky]

This finger pointing is all well and good, ash, but you've been prompted to come up with a case and refuse to do anything but piggy back on things people have said and try to force them to apply to me. If you're truly town try doing something helpful instead of half-butted scumhunting.

Prompted by whom to come up with a case on whom?

I'm by no means the best scumhunter around.  Here are a few thoughts:

1)  I just modded Eevee in MXXIV, where he was a fantastic asset to town (see the ending of D3, especially).  He hasn't done anything near as useful in this game.  So Eevee from this game is not playing like great town!Eevee.  I think this bears consideration.

2)  My strong town read is based on knowing Jimmmmm is masterful as scum in recognizable ways (to me, I think), and he just hasn't done anything like that this game.  He just won again as scum in blitz.  Scum!Jimmmmm is actually a better scumhunter than town!Jimmmmm.  Now, scum!Jimmmmm actually builds the cases on town, but he actively participates in a way that seems very pro town.  He hasn't done that this game, so I continue to feel like he's town.  He also has another big town tell that I'm not going to mention, so that I can continue to look for it in future games, that he's using in this one.

3)  Jorbles has played like I expect scum!Jorbles to play this entire game.  I've had the scum read since D1, and it hasn't waned.  It hasn't risen to "OMGHESSCUMMMMMM" level, and he hasn't slipped at all.  But I won't be surprised when he flips Mountebank.

4)  raerae had the disadvantage of subbing in.  Subbing in is hard, and is a huge help/favor to the game.  She deserved a pass for the first day or two anyway.  Plus, there was RL VLA to deal with.  So, trying to take those things into account, my feeling on you the whole game has still been one of "that's not the normal raerae we see in games."  Less brash and mean, less case pushing, less of everything.  Remember how we went at it on D1 of DS9?  That's TOWN!raerae.  I've learned from that game, where I highly suspected you.  Now, you are nothing like that, so I suspect you.

5)  sudgy felt kind of scummy all game, but we've all accepted that his gold key claim has to be true, given no one has countered it.  I think one thing we're all forgetting is that one of the town members that is dead bought the key, sudgy is scum, and he's just making up everything he's saying about what the dead players are saying.

[ashersky]

Ashersky, I dont think you should claim that. We dont have that many nights left, not much wandering is going to happen anyways. You'd basically let scum now what powers we might be buying (if any).

What cards are available where can be left out of anything you want me to claim, for sure.

[Eevee]

Good post, thank you ashersky. I actually agree with all of what you said. (The reason for my relative uselessness is the frustrating lack of interactions we've had combined with the fact it's just too long to reread).

You left out Insomniac what do you think of him?

I think I'd rather lynch raerae, Jorbles or Insomniac than ashersky.

[Jimmmmm]

2)  My strong town read is based on knowing Jimmmmm is masterful as scum in recognizable ways (to me, I think), and he just hasn't done anything like that this game.  He just won again as scum in blitz.  Scum!Jimmmmm is actually a better scumhunter than town!Jimmmmm.  Now, scum!Jimmmmm actually builds the cases on town, but he actively participates in a way that seems very pro town.  He hasn't done that this game, so I continue to feel like he's town.  He also has another big town tell that I'm not going to mention, so that I can continue to look for it in future games, that he's using in this one.

That's probably fair, I just have very little idea and not much confidence in my reads when I'm Town. I don't really like that I have a Robz-like meta where I'm more pro-Town as scum. I'll have to work on changing that in my next game. Although I'll be taking some time off Mafia after this game.

5)  sudgy felt kind of scummy all game, but we've all accepted that his gold key claim has to be true, given no one has countered it.  I think one thing we're all forgetting is that one of the town members that is dead bought the key, sudgy is scum, and he's just making up everything he's saying about what the dead players are saying.

I had the same thought, but I looked back and sudgy first started talking about the Gold Key about 1/6 of the way into Day 1, so that would seem very unlikely unless he somehow knew in advance which Townie was going to get it when. I guess it could explain the xeiron kill? Seems a bit far-fetched though.

[Eevee]

Would others get behind any of my 3 preferred lynches? I imagine ashersky would.

[Jimmmmm]

Good post, thank you ashersky. I actually agree with all of what you said. (The reason for my relative uselessness is the frustrating lack of interactions we've had combined with the fact it's just too long to reread).

You left out Insomniac what do you think of him?

I think I'd rather lynch raerae, Jorbles or Insomniac than ashersky.

I think I'm actually leaning towards agreeing. ash's play today has really annoyed me. I think most of it hasn't been pro-Town at all. But, I don't know. I just don't feel good about his lynch. Of course, if he's scum we'll never let him do this again. I think I prefer Jorbles at this stage.

[Eevee]

Ins has 46 posts total in this game, including pregame. And he isnt known for making very many long posts..

[ashersky]

You left out Insomniac what do you think of him?

I think that's indicative of what I think of Insomniac this game.  He has definitely coasted through this game.  I take into full account the fact that he doesn't really want to play mafia much right now, and that this game was an exception due to it being Robz's and part-RPG.  But still, this is Day 5, there's a much smaller pool of players, and he could definitely be more active now, even without re-reading the 90+ pages we've produced.  He could focus on D5 and still offer insight--Insom is smart and good at this game.  Town!Insom is pretty good at scumhunting.

The bigger problem with this is I don't really know if it means he's mafia.  I mean, the crazy long Robz game had a lurking scum who made it all the way to the end without doing anything.  Could that be happening again?

So Insom is sort of invisible in this whole thing, and ends up being left out of my equations.  Which I think is ideal for scum, but possible for lurky-just-not-into-it town.

PPE:

Would others get behind any of my 3 preferred lynches? I imagine ashersky would.

Your three are my three preferred.

[Eevee]

It's just, we don't have any useful interactions (well, we can't find them), so it's hard to find a good lynch. How could Insomniac be a bad lynch?

Waaaaaaait. All the off-kooshie wagon people except for Jimmm and Insomniac have flipped town already, right?

[Jimmmmm]

The three of us seem to have reached some sort of agreement. That worries me a little. But if we're all Town and we convince another Townie then that's all we need to do to win. It still worries me though.

[Jimmmmm]

It's just, we don't have any useful interactions (well, we can't find them), so it's hard to find a good lynch. How could Insomniac be a bad lynch?

Waaaaaaait. All the off-kooshie wagon people except for Jimmm and Insomniac have flipped town already, right?

That's correct, and from my point of view it confirms what I've been saying all along, that there was at least one scum bussing. Although sparky/Arch was off-wagon as well I think, but Insom and I are the only ones left.

[Eevee]

Well, you have been my biggest non-sudgy townread all day, and obviously ashersky has to agree.

[Eevee]

It's just, we don't have any useful interactions (well, we can't find them), so it's hard to find a good lynch. How could Insomniac be a bad lynch?

Waaaaaaait. All the off-kooshie wagon people except for Jimmm and Insomniac have flipped town already, right?

That's correct, and from my point of view it confirms what I've been saying all along, that there was at least one scum bussing. Although sparky/Arch was off-wagon as well I think, but Insom and I are the only ones left.

Right, there was one scum caught from there already. Damnit. (If not, my vote would have been on Ins faster than you can say "LDO!")

[Jimmmmm]

LDO?

[ashersky]

Wagons.  This bears analyzing.

Vote Count 1.11

mail-mi (1) -- mcmcsalot
liopoil (1)  -- yuma
raerae (1) -- Jimm
Kooshie (9) -- liopoil, Eevee, Jorbles, sudgy, Lekkit, mail-mi, ashersky, raerae, xeiron
sudgy (1) -- Insomniac
Eevee (1) -- Ozle

Not Voting (2) -- sparky5856, Kooshie

Vote Count 2.18

Ozle (2) -- ashersky, Eevee
mail-mi ( -- Jimm, liopoil, Lekkit, Archetype, raerae, yuma, Ozle, mail-mi
Insomniac (2) -- Jorbles, sudgy
Jimm (1) -- mcmcsalot
mcmcsalot (1) -- Insomniac

Vote Count 3.9

Archetype (2) -- Lekkit, mcmcsalot
Lekkit (7) -- Archetype, raerae, Jimm, sudgy, Jorbles, yuma, ashersky
ashersky (1) -- Insomniac
mcmcsalot (1) -- Eevee

Not Voting (1) -- Ozle

Vote Count 4.5

ashersky (1) -- ashersky
Archetype (6) -- yuma, sudgy, raerae, Eeevee, Jimm, Archetype

Not Voting (3) -- Ozle, Insomniac, Jorbles

[ashersky]

I think raerae is in the "scummier" position on Kooshie's wagon.

Insomniac was on someone we think is obvtown now.

Jimmmmm was voting for someone I think is possible scum.

Based on D1 wagons, I'd say raerae is the lynch.

[Jimmmmm]

Jimmmmm was voting for someone I think is possible scum.

That was a silly joke vote, I can't take credit for that.

[ashersky]

Jimmmmm was voting for someone I think is possible scum.

That was a silly joke vote, I can't take credit for that.

Oh right, she had just replaced in.

Does that make a bus more or less likely?

[Eevee]

LDO?

Lol, duh, obvious.

There were 6 people off the kooshie wagon, 3 of them have flipped town, 1 scum and 2 are yet to flip anything. Hmm. I think I might actually be warming up to an Insomniac lynch, or do we think 2 scum bussed Kooshie?