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[Robz888]

EDIT Jorbles is correct, town bought the Platinum Key.

[Jorbles]

And this game wasn't a closed setup. It was semi-closed. Not everyone was given the same amount of setup information. I for example never knew there was even the potential of vengekills. And most of that was based of which doors I went through--or random luck--yes, part of it was that people with more coins got to explore more.

Also.... Not having Ozle really, really hurt in the end. They woulnd't hvae been able to pull that scheme off at the end if we had one more townie alive.

Well, I think your method of playing might have hurt you there. I think the town might have benefited from sharing more information. it was really important to get into the Platinum Room, so some coordination there may have helped.

But scum didn't have the double vengekills until last night. It does seem a bit crazy and bastard that it ended like that, but really that was just the culmination of nights and nights of scum plotting, that would have failed if you guys caught on just one death earlier.

Yeah, I was against town sharing info, but it was because I was scum. If I'd been town I would have insisted that everyone share info as much as possible because the scum team got to share so much info that it gave us a huge advantage.

Discovering the double vengekill was like the first time I discovered Chancellor-Stash. It was just a really strong combo that wasn't totally obvious when you first saw it, but once you saw it, it was so clearly the best thing we could do.

[yuma]

We didn't buy the Platinum key did we? I remember we killed mcmc because we thought he had it. Actually our kills were really heavily driven by our knowledge of night stuff.

N1-I caught xeiron buying the treasure map because I bid against him on it and then bought the watchtower to ID him. The watchtower ended up being huge btw. We knew our advantage at night was due to having more info than town, so getting an early treasure map claim out of the way was huge.
N2-liopoil we just killed for being towny.
N3-we killed mcmc because we worked out that his crazy talking to himself was about him bidding against Archetype for the Platinum key. We let him buy it and then killed him.
N4-We killed yuma because we knew he'd seen the Talisman and we figured he'd work out how powerful it was right away. (Plus I am totally scared of yuma) We figured sudgy would be protected by someone... he was.
N5-We killed Insomniac because it was kill we thought most likely to go through. We knew sudgy was on the opposite side of the board from the Gold Room where people had bought the Doctor and Commute. I really doubted anyone would protect Insomniac with the Doctor, so we'd narrowed down those purchases to Jimmmm, Eevee and ash (who was dead). When I bumped into Insomniac on the other side of the board far from that room I knew that Eevee and Jimmm had bought the Doctor and the Commute. We couldn't risk trying to shoot the Commuter so we killed Insom.

This whole post just shows the huge advantage that scum had over us in the knowledge department... I mean it is a valid advantage but mostly makes me rethink my stance against claiming a bit. Would it have helped us to coordinate. Maybe, maybe not. I think that scum was able to use the fact that they had 3 people constantly watching to a great advantage while I just bumbled around in the dark, and I imagine most other people did as well...

I mean scum always has a "knowledge" advantage to an extent, but in this game it was greatly increased and I think may have been one of the few times were such claiming might actually have benefited town more than scum. Maybe...

[Robz888]

Yeah. Scum's greater knowledge base was their advantage.

Town did get more of the items, though, and create mini ICs from the keys. and other stuff. I was worried all the mutually confirming stuff would really make it too hard for scum.

[Robz888]

I didn't see the double vengekill as such a problem, because it was so, so expensive to obtain. And indeed, it took such a long time. And it only would have worked if raerae died first. If raerae was the last scum, she dies and loses the game before vengekill activates.

[Jorbles]

We didn't buy the Platinum key did we? I remember we killed mcmc because we thought he had it. Actually our kills were really heavily driven by our knowledge of night stuff.

N1-I caught xeiron buying the treasure map because I bid against him on it and then bought the watchtower to ID him. The watchtower ended up being huge btw. We knew our advantage at night was due to having more info than town, so getting an early treasure map claim out of the way was huge.
N2-liopoil we just killed for being towny.
N3-we killed mcmc because we worked out that his crazy talking to himself was about him bidding against Archetype for the Platinum key. We let him buy it and then killed him.
N4-We killed yuma because we knew he'd seen the Talisman and we figured he'd work out how powerful it was right away. (Plus I am totally scared of yuma) We figured sudgy would be protected by someone... he was.
N5-We killed Insomniac because it was kill we thought most likely to go through. We knew sudgy was on the opposite side of the board from the Gold Room where people had bought the Doctor and Commute. I really doubted anyone would protect Insomniac with the Doctor, so we'd narrowed down those purchases to Jimmmm, Eevee and ash (who was dead). When I bumped into Insomniac on the other side of the board far from that room I knew that Eevee and Jimmm had bought the Doctor and the Commute. We couldn't risk trying to shoot the Commuter so we killed Insom.

This whole post just shows the huge advantage that scum had over us in the knowledge department... I mean it is a valid advantage but mostly makes me rethink my stance against claiming a bit. Would it have helped us to coordinate. Maybe, maybe not. I think that scum was able to use the fact that they had 3 people constantly watching to a great advantage while I just bumbled around in the dark, and I imagine most other people did as well...

I mean scum always has a "knowledge" advantage to an extent, but in this game it was greatly increased and I think may have been one of the few times were such claiming might actually have benefited town more than scum. Maybe...

It would have helped town a lot especially sharing the map. You guys could have raced and coordinated for the more important items as they came up. We would have known what you were plotting, but couldn't really do much. Also I think a mass claim would have helped town here. I never bought a pro-town item so I would have had to come up with some weak excuse for why I hadn't done that. I bought the Watchtower, Possession and the Talisman. Town would have never bought those things.

[ashersky]

We didn't buy the Platinum key did we? I remember we killed mcmc because we thought he had it. Actually our kills were really heavily driven by our knowledge of night stuff.

N1-I caught xeiron buying the treasure map because I bid against him on it and then bought the watchtower to ID him. The watchtower ended up being huge btw. We knew our advantage at night was due to having more info than town, so getting an early treasure map claim out of the way was huge.
N2-liopoil we just killed for being towny.
N3-we killed mcmc because we worked out that his crazy talking to himself was about him bidding against Archetype for the Platinum key. We let him buy it and then killed him.
N4-We killed yuma because we knew he'd seen the Talisman and we figured he'd work out how powerful it was right away. (Plus I am totally scared of yuma) We figured sudgy would be protected by someone... he was.
N5-We killed Insomniac because it was kill we thought most likely to go through. We knew sudgy was on the opposite side of the board from the Gold Room where people had bought the Doctor and Commute. I really doubted anyone would protect Insomniac with the Doctor, so we'd narrowed down those purchases to Jimmmm, Eevee and ash (who was dead). When I bumped into Insomniac on the other side of the board far from that room I knew that Eevee and Jimmm had bought the Doctor and the Commute. We couldn't risk trying to shoot the Commuter so we killed Insom.

This whole post just shows the huge advantage that scum had over us in the knowledge department... I mean it is a valid advantage but mostly makes me rethink my stance against claiming a bit. Would it have helped us to coordinate. Maybe, maybe not. I think that scum was able to use the fact that they had 3 people constantly watching to a great advantage while I just bumbled around in the dark, and I imagine most other people did as well...

I mean scum always has a "knowledge" advantage to an extent, but in this game it was greatly increased and I think may have been one of the few times were such claiming might actually have benefited town more than scum. Maybe...

Glad you are coming around to my way of thinking on claiming!

[Jorbles]

This whole post just shows the huge advantage that scum had over us in the knowledge department... I mean it is a valid advantage but mostly makes me rethink my stance against claiming a bit. Would it have helped us to coordinate. Maybe, maybe not. I think that scum was able to use the fact that they had 3 people constantly watching to a great advantage while I just bumbled around in the dark, and I imagine most other people did as well...

I mean scum always has a "knowledge" advantage to an extent, but in this game it was greatly increased and I think may have been one of the few times were such claiming might actually have benefited town more than scum. Maybe...

Glad you are coming around to my way of thinking on claiming!

haha, I actually agreed with you the whole time this game on claiming, I just wasn't on your team.

[yuma]

I didn't see the double vengekill as such a problem, because it was so, so expensive to obtain. And indeed, it took such a long time. And it only would have worked if raerae died first. If raerae was the last scum, she dies and loses the game before vengekill activates.

I guess I am starting to agree with you. But mostly it was just that it came such out of nowhere. I mean it wasn't even kinda on my radar. And I tend to associate that sort of feeling with a RMM game. In a normal game you at least have something of an idea of what could possibly happen in a given day. But that was just WHAM! Game over!

Although I kinda felt that way about joth's game to an extent as well. I think mostly I tend to like games that have been developed, tested and are closed as it focuses more on the actual game play rather than the roles and the randomness. Hence why I tend to not play RMM or BM games, and since this game was more on the RMM side of the normal spectrum that is why I feel this way.

[yuma]

Glad you are coming around to my way of thinking on claiming!

Oh I probably won't in future games either. I still think that mass claiming tends to be bad for town overall. I think this was an exception.

[Robz888]

Glad you are coming around to my way of thinking on claiming!

Oh I probably won't in future games either. I still think that mass claiming tends to be bad for town overall. I think this was an exception.

I also think that.

[liopoil]

I still think that mass claiming tends to be bad for town overall. I think this was an exception.

I'm thinking we should map-claim. here's why:

I am against any sort of mass claim. It is bad.

Vote: Yuma

Told you guys it was a good idea

I think I like games with a full list of possible roles better. I've played three games not like that: DS9, this, and conspiracy theories. conspiracy theories was bastard, so that's okay, but still, a nasty twist at the end. DS9 was shocking with both robz andd yuma being scum, that was unfortunate. this had my investigation being moot and the double vengeful. Though, I agree now that those were okay because town could easily find out about them. I would have found out about the possession if I had been reading closer. Again, people should have claimed!

Anyway, games like these are fine, but games with all possible roles listed are much easier for town to analyze and play better.

[mcmcsalot]

So did anyone else barter war for the entire night??

[ashersky]

So did anyone else barter war for the entire night??

Did you think it was me?  It wasn't me.

I will note that I completely missed the night deadline on N2 to do anything, so just sat around.  I had the Quarry in my possession from N0 and never got to use it.  I spent all my money moving, got to the Gardens, and found nothing there.  I made up everything (including the Goons) in the dead QT to try and throw scum off.

[Robz888]

So did anyone else barter war for the entire night??

Yes, Eevee and Jim also triggered an auction over the one-shot doc I beleive.

[liopoil]

oh, by the way, robz, how did you figure out how many coins to give each player each night? I think I got more than most: 7 N1 and 6 N2... but it looks like the scum got loads!

mcmc was bidding against arch, says so in scum QT.

[mcmcsalot]

Haha ooh

[raerae]

So you guys are going to come play Mean Girls now right?  It's going to be super fun and my co-mods are awesome to the possum.

[ashersky]

So you guys are going to come play Mean Girls now right?  It's going to be super fun and my co-mods are awesome to the possum.

This!

And also the RMM games that have been waiting for love.

[Robz888]

oh, by the way, robz, how did you figure out how many coins to give each player each night? I think I got more than most: 7 N1 and 6 N2... but it looks like the scum got loads!

mcmc was bidding against arch, says so in scum QT.

Check the doc i posted under the map lists. The miscellaneous stuff one.

[liopoil]

It says I don't have access to that document because I'm not logged into your gmail account 

[Robz888]

It says I don't have access to that document because I'm not logged into your gmail account 

fixed

[Archetype]

So did anyone else barter war for the entire night??

Haha Platinum Key right? Figured it was you, so we killed ya.

[Jimmmmm]

EDIT Jorbles is correct, town bought the Platinum Key.

When? You told me it still cost $9 to enter the Platinum room.

[Jimmmmm]

Anyway. I do feel a bit cheated by the ending, but that's the way it goes I guess. Overall it was a great game. Thanks Robz for modding and congrats to scum.

I'm going to take a break from Mafia for a while, maybe six weeks until I'm on holidays.