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[Eevee]

.. yeah. How about we skip the phase where we lynch ashersky? I'd rather try to continue lynching mountbanks.

[Ozle]

As Ozle points out, I am indeed the better mislynch.  Thank you Ozle for seeing the light on Jimmmmm.

Please, everyone, strongly consider lynching Ozle as soon as possible on D3.  You clearly don't have to believe me now, but when I am lynched, and am confirmed as town, you can look back at these interactions and understand how it was scum on town.

Please, please re-read all of Ozle's posts with me (and yuma's) after I am confirmed town.  Then you can know for sure that I am not lying, not trying to mislead anyone, and only doing what I think is best for town.

Now, I think it's time for that lynch.  But remember my dying words: At least one of Ozle and Yuma is scum.  At least one of the acti-lurkers (Lekkit, Jorbles, Insom, raerae) is scum.  Check out their interactions with me throughout D2.  See how suspects interacted with conf!town.

I would say lynch Ozle first, on D3.  See who dies the next few nights.  Go from there on D4.

I won't claim what I know of the map, given I know some key card locations.  What I have purchased, town can survive without.

Don't let me down guys!

First off, 'see the light', what have you actually said about Jimm that makes him townie to you?! Nothing. You have just tried to , in your terminology, deflect the lynch onto someone else, repeatedly, with several different people.

So anyone who builds a decent case on your scummy actions is obvscum? Please....im not the only one who thinks you are scummy.

Hopefully this lynch will go through, and if indeed you turn out to be town, then you have played a very bad town game to be honest and I shall be very annoyed.

[Ozle]

Also, you seem so 100% sure in your own reads, despite flipping your vote around.

Originally If Jimmm turned out town it was all 100% we should lynch Yuma on day 3, with you saying you would think of no other thing.

Now if you turn out as town you say town should do no other thing but lynch me?

Despite the fact im not the one even leading your lynch, you are, then a couple of others, and then me. But I am the only one presenting an actual case. So someone who actually presents a good case on someone is more scummy than people who just sheep and jump on the wagon.
Again, why as town would you want to discourage people building cases

Or is it just me you dont like giving reads and actually stating a case rather than just voting?
Is this because i listed you as one of my scum reads early on, because im pretty sure you had said nothing against me till then, and had even agreed with me as the lastt hing before that.

Would you rather I just sheeped peoples votes like you have been doing?
We obviously have different ways of playing this game...

[ashersky]

I have reads, they are out there.  If you have no confidence in your own reads, they aren't very useful, right?  So yes, I do have confidence in them.

We clearly have different play styles, and that's okay.  As town, I always strive to help town, even if some feel I am not helping.  As town, I am open to dying for the cause.  As town, I give honest reads, sometimes based on gut, sometimes posts, sometimes interactions.

I don't know how many times I have to post my reasons on Jimmmmm before you will give me credit for giving my reasons.  I think that scum!Jimmmmm plays this differently.  I just had a full-on case study of scum!Jimmmmm.  I have played against scum Jimmmmm before, as scum myself.  So I don't think this is scum!Jimmmmm.  I am socially deducing that.  Plus, Jimmmmm doesn't kill the easy lynch, if he's scum.

Those are my reasons for having a town read on Jimmmmm.

[Ozle]

I have reads, they are out there.  If you have no confidence in your own reads, they aren't very useful, right?  So yes, I do have confidence in them.

Confidence in them and believing them to be 100% irrefutably right that you would not consider any other action are not the same thing.....

[Ozle]

And that self belief is what will possibly get two townies lynched if you are town.

You are acting scummy, even if you are not scum. This gives people a legitimate reason to vote for you.
If you are town, why would you give scum an easy ride.
And then if you are town, you go on to say there should be no other lynch than the person who actually pointed out where your obvious  scummy play was. in detail.
Not based on a 'gut feeling' like apparently your irrefutable read on Jimm is (despite everyone say Jimmm is excellent scum which means he is quite capableof mixing his game up)

If you are town, and your 'gut feelings' and voting for your obvious scumminess cause me to be lynched tomorrow you'll probably have lost the game for town, and I will put all of the blame for that on you.

[ashersky]

Hopefully this lynch will go through, and if indeed you turn out to be town, then you have played a very bad town game to be honest and I shall be very annoyed.

I would say that same thing about you.  If you are town, deflecting from Kooshie was bad town play.  Tunneling on me is bad town play.  At least I'm willing to die to prove myself as a true innocent, and to help this bank rid itself of Mountebanks.

I believe a townie who can get scum to interact with them for an extended time is doing the town a great service.  The more scum has to post, the more there is from that scum to analyze.  That's where the LALL thing stems from, right?  Scum lurk because it's safer.  I think you and/or Yuma are scum.  You've both engaged me a lot.  Town has plenty to study when I'm dead.  They'll. draw their own conclusions, and you'll be around to try and sway them.

[Eevee]

People who still think that jimm is the most likely of us to flip today, have you seen the dragon quicktopic for RMM7? Do you think that Jimmm doesn't care about this game for some reason or that he decided to delibirately play like this in hopes of seeming super towny?

[ashersky]

And that self belief is what will possibly get two townies lynched if you are town.

You are acting scummy, even if you are not scum. This gives people a legitimate reason to vote for you.
If you are town, why would you give scum an easy ride.
And then if you are town, you go on to say there should be no other lynch than the person who actually pointed out where your obvious  scummy play was. in detail.
Not based on a 'gut feeling' like apparently your irrefutable read on Jimm is (despite everyone say Jimmm is excellent scum which means he is quite capableof mixing his game up)

If you are town, and your 'gut feelings' and voting for your obvious scumminess cause me to be lynched tomorrow you'll probably have lost the game for town, and I will put all of the blame for that on you.

Because clearly the town will blindly act on my orders.  Right.

I am not "acting scummy."  I'm just being myself.  I mean, look at all the posts from people saying "scum read on ash, but I always get that."  Go read my scum games.  The Switch and Sea Hag games are me "acting scummy," as I suck at being scum.  I've improved since then.  Actually, you remember D1 of your game that I double-won?  How "scummy" did I seem then, and blithely confident in my plan?  I was town then, too.

Don't blame me if town loses the game after I'm dead.

[ashersky]

Oh, I forgot to mention previously, you listed the "ash inflating his post count" thing as a reason in your case against me.  That's a scummy misrepresentation of me as a mafia games player, given my propensity to post a lot every game anyway.  I made the Top 10 posters (along with you, I think?) during theory's April Fool's thing even though I didn't start playing until MX.

[Ozle]

Oh, I forgot to mention previously, you listed the "ash inflating his post count" thing as a reason in your case against me.  That's a scummy misrepresentation of me as a mafia games player, given my propensity to post a lot every game anyway.  I made the Top 10 posters (along with you, I think?) during theory's April Fool's thing even though I didn't start playing until MX.

You usually post a lot, nowhere did I say you did not, in fact I think that makes your actions there even MORE scummy (and im in the top 10 post counts WITHOUT mafia so I fail to see how that is relevant here)

In this game you tried to inflate your post count by posting a lot without content. And then stopped the minute someone pointed out what you were doing.
Usually you are high in the post counts without having to artificially inflate.

So no, not a misrepresentation of you at all, by your own words you post a lot in games. In THIS games you tried to get a high post count without content.

good job pulling out a minor thing of the entire case to try and refute!

Sounds like you do want to fight your lynch after all.....

I am not "acting scummy."  I'm just being myself.  I mean, look at all the posts from people saying "scum read on ash, but I always get that."  Go read my scum games.  The Switch and Sea Hag games are me "acting scummy," as I suck at being scum.  I've improved since then.  Actually, you remember D1 of your game that I double-won?  How "scummy" did I seem then, and blithely confident in my plan?  I was town then, too.

Don't blame me if town loses the game after I'm dead.

So, you acknowledge that your actions make you act scummy to other people?. And you continue to play the same way?
Well done, you automatically start town off with a disadvantage.


"Actually, you remember D1 of your game that I double-won?  How "scummy" did I seem then, and blithely confident in my plan?  I was town then, too."

And I do remember you crazy statements from my last game.
Most of which were WRONG.
You had a flavour cop role you claimed REPEATEDLY could help catch scum, when it could do no such thing (what it was there to do was help you win the flavour victory)
And the main person you accused of being scum for a long long time was Galzria. You even pulled the same moves.
Oh look, Galzria was town......

Town won that game because the town PR's managed to catch the last scum dead to rights with power roles (Watcher and cop results). Had nothing to do with you I'm afraid or your bad incorrect reads.

[ashersky]

Not fighting my lynch, encouraging it, even.

Just pointing out things I think are scummy about you and your "case" on me.

Really, my case on me is better than yours.

[Jimmmmm]

People who still think that jimm is the most likely of us to flip today, have you seen the dragon quicktopic for RMM7? Do you think that Jimmm doesn't care about this game for some reason or that he decided to delibirately play like this in hopes of seeming super towny?

Exactly. In fact, Vote: sudgy for not realising this earlier.

[ashersky]

Can we have an official vote count?

[Jimmmmm]

Is Insomniac usually this lurky?  I'm kind of suspicious of him from that, and Jimmmmm too.  He wasn't lurky in my earlier game with him (even though he was only alive D1)

I'm a little bit more suspicious of Jimmmmm than Insomniac at the moment, but that might be because I've played with Jimmmmm before.

Meanwhile he's scum with me in another game in which he says, "Also, I feel like you have been doing amazing. I would not suspect you at this point if I was town." [#68] (In fact that quote is from earlier than the above two quotes.) Now obviously he can't publicly use that a reason to say that I'm probably Town, but surely that would have been in Town sudgy's mind.

[yuma]

Now, I think it's time for that lynch.  But remember my dying words: At least one of Ozle and Yuma is scum.  At least one of the acti-lurkers (Lekkit, Jorbles, Insom, raerae) is scum.  Check out their interactions with me throughout D2.  See how suspects interacted with conf!town.

Hey ash, let's not lynch you eh?

vote: Ozle. Really I think ash is playing a game that I haven't seen him play before, I don't know what to make of it yet. So props to you ash for changing your scum game or becoming more protown as town. Either way, if we aren't going to lynch Jimmmm or mcmc, we should continue to stay off wagon. So that is yuma, Insomniac, sparky (archetype, has he posted since subbing in?) and Ozle.

[yuma]

People who still think that jimm is the most likely of us to flip today, have you seen the dragon quicktopic for RMM7? Do you think that Jimmm doesn't care about this game for some reason or that he decided to delibirately play like this in hopes of seeming super towny?

I am going to say one thing in response to this. Even though I am no longer voting for Jimmmm. Scum that is as subtle and complicated as Jimmmm are capable of playing more than one scum style at a time, especially when they know that a lot of the players know their alignment in this game ash, sudgy, raerae and yuma all knew Jimmmm's alignment. See me in MXX compared to MXIX where in one I buss hard and in the other I defend and deflect. If Jimmmm is as good at playing scum as you say he is he is capable of playing off another game. I have done it.

[Jimmmmm]

Oh, I forgot you were a co-mod of LoTR. raerae knew my alignment?

[yuma]

Oh, I forgot you were a co-mod of LoTR. raerae knew my alignment?

I was barely a co-mod, but knew alignment. Ash will know better about raerae, I thougth that she investigated you the day she died. I followed that game along enough to know who won, but don't know specifics, so maybe it wasn't raerae, but was the other cop?

[ashersky]

Oh, I forgot you were a co-mod of LoTR. raerae knew my alignment?

Raerae investigated you the night you Godfathered.  You killed her.

[ashersky]

Unvote myself.

[ashersky]

Yuma is right in reminding us all where we should be focusing.  We will find scum off-wagon.  No way all three bussed.

Back to vote: ozle as that's clearly what I've been pushing for, and it was where I had my vote prior to self voting.

[Eevee]

"Changing up his game" I could see happening, just willingly attracting suspicion like this just isnt a reasonable change.

And look, I'm not saying he couldnt be scum. I'm saying he isnt the most likely to be scum! Anyone else COULD be scum too.

ozle and sudgy are both good targets in my opinion.

[Jimmmmm]

Oh, I forgot you were a co-mod of LoTR. raerae knew my alignment?

Raerae investigated you the night you Godfathered.  You killed her.

Wait, I'm confused. So raerae absolutely didn't know my alignment?

[ashersky]

One last comment before I turn in for the night--I know we've been worried about using too much time, but I think these pages we've generated recently have been useful and important for future days.