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[Eevee]

Vote: Archetype


Unless he refutes what yuma is saying convincingly, this is the obvious lynch. I'd save our bankable time and not wait for ozle.

[ashersky]

As it is, I won't move my vote to anyone but Ozle.  Ozle has been, by far, the scummiest-seeming player I have ever seen in a game that I've played.  That counts every single on in my signature, which are all finished games I've played.  And yet, he gets treated like he's town!yuma.  So fine, town won't listen to me, I won't waste my breath anymore.  It's yuma or Ozle for me, the end.

this right here... is ashersky being scum.

He is trying a really good move. He is trying to get a mislynch on ozle today (here I am totally speculating that ozle is in fact scum, something I have had a pretty good read about for a while and ash's suspicion of him and this post make me think he is even townier) by trying to manipulate me into voting for ozle. This sort of ozle, yuma or me forces town's hand, and especially my hand to try to get us to go to ozle. If that succeeds and especially if I am on that wagon, ultimately results in town!ozle getting lynched, and everyone extremely suspicious of me going into night and what happens day5? yuma gets lynched in mylo.

Well I for one am not falling for it.

No, this is ashersky trying to be good town, something I'm not usually.  As far as I'm concerned, there's a 99% chance that at least one of you and Ozle are scum, and a 75% chance you both are scum.

You know I don't care if I die as town.  That's well known.  Go ahead and get me lynched.  I'll self-hammer and laugh so hard at you and your ridiculous reads in the speccy.  You, of all people, read me better than anyone else.  At least, you have until now if you really think I'm scum.

And so, if you push my mislynch through, you'll be seen for the lying scum that you are.  Because it is well documented throughout f.ds that yuma knows ashersky.  So you forcing an ashersky mislynch is bad yuma play, which equals scum yuma play.

It's time to bus your teammate Ozle.

Posts like this, with threatening people off of voting you, promising grudgy self hammers and intentionally exaggarating probabilities are very annoying. You clearly DON'T want to be lynched here. Its just so scummy, despite your day 1 wagon position which was more than nullified by your blunder with yesterdays wagon anyways. Also, I wasn't kidding when I sais not offering yourself se the lynch makes you scummy.

Lynching archetype would have one benefit no one has mentioned: we'd know jimm and raerae are town if arche flipped town. But, scum could just nightkill one of them, it's probably too late for such a trade. I think it's conceivable archetype could have just made a mistake, so the thing I think we need to analyze is if that would have been a reasonable scum lie. it's an expensive item, would they buy it in favor of items that directly help scum? Could they know someone else bought it before dying? Would archetype just outright risk a counterclaim? I don't really think any of those cases are super likely, but the slip is pretty convincing.

Okay.  If you say so.

vote: ashersky

Eevee, you never responded to my acceding to your request.  You just moved off of my wagon to join Arch's, so I'll assume I'm not your preferred lynch today?

[Eevee]

You are not, archetype is.

I don't think you really read my post as "ashersky, please self-vote so I can stop suspecting you." That certainly wasn't my intention.

Why did you choose to react that way? If you truly thought that's what I wanted, why were you willing to accomodate such a ridiculous request?

[ashersky]

You are not, archetype is.

I don't think you really read my post as "ashersky, please self-vote so I can stop suspecting you." That certainly wasn't my intention.

Why did you choose to react that way? If you truly thought that's what I wanted, why were you willing to accomodate such a ridiculous request?

I think you meant "ashersky always acts like he's willing to die, but if he's scum, it's a lie and I'm calling him on it."  Not a lie, not scum, will die to prove it.  Prefer Arch, though.

[raerae]

You are not, archetype is.

I don't think you really read my post as "ashersky, please self-vote so I can stop suspecting you." That certainly wasn't my intention.

Why did you choose to react that way? If you truly thought that's what I wanted, why were you willing to accomodate such a ridiculous request?

I think you meant "ashersky always acts like he's willing to die, but if he's scum, it's a lie and I'm calling him on it."  Not a lie, not scum, will die to prove it.  Prefer Arch, though.

I thought town was in a really crappy position.  Why would you offer to die just to prove a point this late in the game?

[ashersky]

You are not, archetype is.

I don't think you really read my post as "ashersky, please self-vote so I can stop suspecting you." That certainly wasn't my intention.

Why did you choose to react that way? If you truly thought that's what I wanted, why were you willing to accomodate such a ridiculous request?

I think you meant "ashersky always acts like he's willing to die, but if he's scum, it's a lie and I'm calling him on it."  Not a lie, not scum, will die to prove it.  Prefer Arch, though.

I thought town was in a really crappy position.  Why would you offer to die just to prove a point this late in the game?

I hope town wouldn't lynch me to help prove my point.

[Archetype]

I bought it Night 2 and did not use it until Night 3. Again, I think you're mu
misunderstanding me Yuma. And I hope people are not just going to stand by and let another mislynch happen.

And sudgy, when I said it was 'by a Gold room' I meant it was somewhat close to it. At least on my map. I don't know how much you've explored.

[Archetype]

As much as I hate map claiming/information claiming, I guess I have to do it to save my own butt:

I bought it Night 2 in a Silver Room Next to a Gold Room and 2 Hallways. It cost $8 and I did not use it the night I bought it because I had no one I wanted to investigate. I used it the following night on Jimmmmm (to see if I was right about him) and Raerae (I was generally suspicious of her).

Southwest corner of the map?

Why are you trying to trick me? We both know it's not there.

[yuma]

I bought it Night 2 and did not use it until Night 3. Again, I think you're mu
misunderstanding me Yuma. And I hope people are not just going to stand by and let another mislynch happen.

And sudgy, when I said it was 'by a Gold room' I meant it was somewhat close to it. At least on my map. I don't know how much you've explored.

LIES!!!!

I used an Oracle I investigated Jimmmmm two nights ago and he's Town. I almost came out with it yesterday, but Yuma was pushing it so hard I didn't feel comfortable about it. If you don't believe me, see my flipped read on him.

[Jorbles]

Vote: Archetype


Unless he refutes what yuma is saying convincingly, this is the obvious lynch. I'd save our bankable time and not wait for ozle.

We're not eating into bankable time until tomorrow. I assume this is an honest mistake. Eevee's posts today have been confused. First he forgot that mcmc was dead then he forgot when bankable time started. I would say that scum Eevee would probably be paying more attention and not make these mistakes so he's probably town.

I thought I'd post my reads in case I die.

I think yuma is less scummy if Archetype flips scum as I think he will, though I admit this could be a staged blunder to setup a bus it seems unlikely. I think I'm still voting for him so Unvote. There's no one to lynch but Archetype today, and I assume this lynch will go through tomorrow morning as soon as we start into bankable time.

I'm not sure what to think of ashersky's actions today. I'll have to look at them more closely.

raerae's actions seem slightly towny, her interactions with Archetype, sudgy and yuma feel towny anyways. On top of that if she was roleblocked last night that clears her to some degree.

Jimmmm, Insomniac, and Ozle I have slight scum reads on based on today's actions, either because they haven't posted much or I forget what they posted. It's impossible that they're all scum if Archetype is scum so I assume at least one of them must be town possibly two. I will be rereading these players once Archetype flips.

sudgy is clearly town. I can't remember who verified, but I know there were multiple verifications.

[Insomniac]

Im on board with the Archetype lynch just waiting for Ozle/Deadline.

[yuma]

I thought I'd post my reads in case I die.

I will do so as well. I don't think I will die in the night, but you never know in these games.

1. Jimm - looking townier I think based off Arch's pseudo investigation of him. I have a hard time seeing scum putting their partner as their fake investigation because if Jimmm somehow ends up dying, Arch is then doomed.
2. raerae - same here. Her not being the NK is also is a point in her favor. My scummier read on her last night when I roleblocked her was very much based on me completely doubting myself, something I won't be doing much of anymore now that I realize I was actually right about Arch day2 and day3.
3. yuma - town
4. ashersky - I just really don't know. ash aggravates me sometimes and that is OK. I am known for being able to read him pretty well--although that initially started out as an argument that I used when scum to back up my made up town readings on him, but regardless I am generally pretty accurate when it comes to him. In this game he wasn't playing normal ash style, but has kinda reverted back into it as the game has progressed and become more frustrating (not just for him, but for everyone). the fact that arch voted for him makes me think he is a little less likely to be scum.
5. Insomniac - I still have a townier read on him, mostly because he has played the type of game that I could see town insomniac playing. I don't know. Insom is sophisticated enough to fake lurking to try and win as scum--and I do honestly believe that he is a bit burned out from mafia, but could be using that as a cover as mafia. But really he is more of a town read than anything else.
6. Eevee - This guy is a mystery this game. I disagree with jorble's points that his mistakes make him townier. I think they are null tells as such mistakes are so easily faked or can be completely genuine from mafia.
7. Jorbles - certainly on the more suspicious side of things.
11. sudgy - apparently very town unless someone who collaborated his claim turns out to be scum (who were those people by the way, we should keep track of them, just in case)
14. Ozle - his VLA is aggravating, but VLAs often are and I doubt it is his fault. I had a townier read on him from his reaction to the wagon day2, but that has kinda, but not completely disappeared as the days have past.

It is also worth noting who voted for Arch this game (especially day2 when it would have been super bad for scum to lose two players in two days): Let's find out!

Day2: In sequential order.

yuma, jimmmm, mail-mi, eevee, sudgy, lio (now at L-2)

I am also going to look at see what happened to this wagon, who didn't join it and who may have deflected from it...

raerae voted for ozle to put the third vote on ozle with ashersky and mcmc.

Jorbles voted Jimmm, the first vote on Jimmm at that point.

yuma moves to ozle, followed by eevee

Day3:

Jorbles, yuma, Jorbles (again), sudgy, Lekkit, yuma (again)

So people who never voted for arch day2: jorbles, insomniac, ashersky, ozle, raerea

And people who never voted for arch day2 or day3: Insomniac, ashersky, ozle, raerae


So from this I think that ash, raerae and jorbles look scummier. Ozle and insomniac to an extent, but neither of them deflected from the growing arch wagon the way these other three did. I think very strongly that at least one scum would be in this group. I think raerae is the least likely (based on stuff I mentioned before) and ash based off arch's vote on him, is a little less likely... although jorbles also has the early vote on arch day3 and was early on the kooshie wagon day4.

I think we are at the point where everyone is going to start looking a little scummy and a little towny. It is going to be a lot like Robz's last game where we got the the point where there was one scum in like 5 people and everyone appeared to be just as scummy as the other person. It was pretty horrible. But the big takeaway there was that we all didn't go back and reread, we just ignored past interactions and focused more on the last few days. That was a mistake and almost cost us the game. I encourage us to not repeat that disaster again.

[Eevee]

Good post yuma.

The players confirming sudgys claim were myself and Jimmm.

The reason for my recent confusion is just the fact I've been travelling and relying 100% on mobile access.

[sudgy]

And sudgy, when I said it was 'by a Gold room' I meant it was somewhat close to it. At least on my map. I don't know how much you've explored.

Which direction were the hallways and the gold room (the hallway leading to the gold room) coming out of the silver room?

And, in the case of scum!Archetype, I am pretty much confirmed town.  It would be impossible for me, Eevee, and Jimmmmm to all be scum at that point.

[sudgy]

And, if Ozle still hasn't posted by tomorrow, everybody, feel free to lynch him.  We don't want to lose bankable time.

[sudgy]

And arch, say hello to lekkit, kooshie, and mail-mi for me

[yuma]

And, if Ozle still hasn't posted by tomorrow, everybody, feel free to lynch him.  We don't want to lose bankable time.

have you given your reads before heading into night. I think people should do that, but specifically I think you especially should.

[sudgy]

And, if Ozle still hasn't posted by tomorrow, everybody, feel free to lynch him.  We don't want to lose bankable time.

have you given your reads before heading into night. I think people should do that, but specifically I think you especially should.

I'll do it later today.  I don't have much time right now.

[ashersky]

I bought it Night 2 and did not use it until Night 3. Again, I think you're mu
misunderstanding me Yuma. And I hope people are not just going to stand by and let another mislynch happen.

And sudgy, when I said it was 'by a Gold room' I meant it was somewhat close to it. At least on my map. I don't know how much you've explored.

LIES!!!!

I used an Oracle I investigated Jimmmmm two nights ago and he's Town. I almost came out with it yesterday, but Yuma was pushing it so hard I didn't feel comfortable about it. If you don't believe me, see my flipped read on him.

Intent to hammer if he hits L-1.

[yuma]

wait at least until ozle gets on line and sudgy puts down his reads, or until we are at the bankable deadline using mark...

A hammer before these things take place will be considered scummy play.

<speculation>Also I have no idea if hammering gets more coins or not. But if we think that it does, I think that someone a little more townier should be the hammerer in that event. (obviously not me... but not ash either).</speculation>

[ashersky]

wait at least until ozle gets on line and sudgy puts down his reads, or until we are at the bankable deadline using mark...

A hammer before these things take place will be considered scummy play.

<speculation>Also I have no idea if hammering gets more coins or not. But if we think that it does, I think that someone a little more townier should be the hammerer in that event. (obviously not me... but not ash either).</speculation>

I hammered town yesterday and got no coins.  Hammering scum might.  I got coins for being on the scum wagon.

Ozle's Barca trip is clearly over.  He hasn't been on f.ds at all since Sunday.  I don't think it's worth waiting for him to come and try to save his scumpartner.

[yuma]

Worth what though? We aren't wasting any bankable time.

And who knows. Maybe he will have something worthwhile to say. Maybe he is a PR with results that we should know about. I have no idea. But I think we should at least wait until Friday because it costs us nothing.

Don't just assume he is scum and has nothing of worth to tell us based off your reads. You have good reads pretty often, but they aren't always 100%.

Also do you not think that it is worthwhile to know who sudgy (our IC) thinks is scummy and townie before we head into night?

[ashersky]

Worth what though? We aren't wasting any bankable time.

And who knows. Maybe he will have something worthwhile to say. Maybe he is a PR with results that we should know about. I have no idea. But I think we should at least wait until Friday because it costs us nothing.

Don't just assume he is scum and has nothing of worth to tell us based off your reads. You have good reads pretty often, but they aren't always 100%.

Also do you not think that it is worthwhile to know who sudgy (our IC) thinks is scummy and townie before we head into night?

Yes on sudgy, although why is he an IC?

I'd actually like a list of reads from everyone at this point, so they're available for review tomorrow post Arch flip and NK.

If it's the Gold Room thing, that's bunk.  Gold room price dropped last night anyway, right?

[sudgy]

Worth what though? We aren't wasting any bankable time.

And who knows. Maybe he will have something worthwhile to say. Maybe he is a PR with results that we should know about. I have no idea. But I think we should at least wait until Friday because it costs us nothing.

Don't just assume he is scum and has nothing of worth to tell us based off your reads. You have good reads pretty often, but they aren't always 100%.

Also do you not think that it is worthwhile to know who sudgy (our IC) thinks is scummy and townie before we head into night?

Yes on sudgy, although why is he an IC?

I'd actually like a list of reads from everyone at this point, so they're available for review tomorrow post Arch flip and NK.

If it's the Gold Room thing, that's bunk.  Gold room price dropped last night anyway, right?

No it did not.  Robz already responded to you saying that gold prices automatically drop tonight, not last night.

[yuma]

If it's the Gold Room thing, that's bunk.  Gold room price dropped last night anyway, right?

are you being obstinate or just not paying attention...

Cost to enter a Gold Room
$5
$2, if Gold Key purchased by your faction
$2 after Night 3

Last night was night 3. We have had this discussion twice already.

So unless both jimmm and eevee are lying, sudgy is in fact an IC. DEAL WITH IT!