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[Robz888]

Really, things were very very close to going town's way. You were so close to lynching raerae yesterday! Jorbles would have had a tough time winning from that position, I think.

Town simply misused (not deliberately) its PRs. Jimm's doc and Insomniac's bus drive both misfired. Yuma roleblocked the pillage but not the kill.

well at least I can feel good about that. Who did the NK. Please don't say it was arch...

Okay then, I won't say it...

[Jorbles]

Robz, we are idiots.  Why did we not just kill me right away??  Good gravy.

I was wondering that myself.

As soon as your night kill succeeded, you had won. But you guys didn't realize it!

There were some things that could have stopped your night kill, though. Insomniac bus drove the wrong people, and you avoided the commuter (who didn't commute any way).

We could have still lost if I had been lynched. I just needed to not be quicklynched by Eevee, Jimmm and sudgy, something I admit was a longshot, but having the Talisman meant I just needed to wait for one other person to vote. Raerae's claim was more to draw votes away from me than to actually succeed, that and to slow things down.

[raerae]

Robz, we are idiots.  Why did we not just kill me right away??  Good gravy.

I was wondering that myself.

As soon as your night kill succeeded, you had won. But you guys didn't realize it!

There were some things that could have stopped your night kill, though. Insomniac bus drove the wrong people, and you avoided the commuter (who didn't commute any way).

We could have still lost if I had been lynched. I just needed to not be quicklynched by Eevee, Jimmm and sudgy, something I admit was a longshot, but having the Talisman meant I just needed to wait for one other person to vote. Raerae's claim was more to draw votes away from me than to actually succeed, that and to slow things down.

Sorry I didn't vote straight off the bat.  I am apparently awful at being scum.  And thinking things all the way through...

[yuma]

Shame on you all for not listening to me yesterday.

see the QT for my most compelling case on you ever... I think I had like 35 points... raerae and jorbles did you use parts of it in your case on ash?

If so I will live forever in my shame.

I'll check it out.  But really, you thought I was scum?  You used to read me so well.

You were pretty scummy....

You should all know by now that "pretty scummy" is just "me."

well this time it was more than just your meta. It was where you were on wagons, opinions, statements... you know things that could actually be supported. But maybe I just wanted you to be scum because town was headed that direction and I wanted to win.

[ashersky]

Time to shamelessly plug the games that are open for sign-ups (multiple RMMs, Mean Girls, Knights).  Shakespeare can start quickly, if needed.  I don't know where the others are in their prep.  We're down to one game active!

[ashersky]

Shame on you all for not listening to me yesterday.

see the QT for my most compelling case on you ever... I think I had like 35 points... raerae and jorbles did you use parts of it in your case on ash?

If so I will live forever in my shame.

I'll check it out.  But really, you thought I was scum?  You used to read me so well.

You were pretty scummy....

You should all know by now that "pretty scummy" is just "me."

well this time it was more than just your meta. It was where you were on wagons, opinions, statements... you know things that could actually be supported. But maybe I just wanted you to be scum because town was headed that direction and I wanted to win.

My voting was no worse than yours, for example.  And I had darn good cases on raerae/Jorbles that last day.  As Robz mentioned, my reads improved as the game went forward.

I was definitely way wrong on Ozle, though.  But he's scummy the way I'm scummy, I think, just inherently.

[Jorbles]

MVP would be betwee Jorbles, raerae, and Eevee. Jorbles and raerae for their win, obviously, and Eevee for being the townie who was the closest to putting it altogether. There was a point where like everything he was saying was correct, but then Insomniac came in and hammered ash.

I think Jorbles gets the nod. I think he came up with more of the schemes and really, really avoided suspicion the most of the scum.

MVP: Jorbles.

I support the hell out of this.  Cheers, Jorbles!!

yay! my first win, and nominated for mvp! I couldn't have done it without you. Raerae you were a great scumbuddy. Arch, on the other hand, you got some 'splaining to do! 

[Eevee]

Yeah, this was my second straight game where I lived until the end and had a perfect voting record. That's 9 straight days! Y'all ought to listen to me more!

Makes losing less sour.. but only by very little. That one evening where Jimmm, ash and myself found consensus was great. Such a shame we couldn't pull through.

[eHalcyon]

I was definitely way wrong on Ozle, though.  But he's scummy the way I'm scummy, I think, just inherently.

Haha, I definitely disagree!  Spectating, I thought Ozle was super townie and you were super scummy.

And the whole time through I was saying, "crap, ash is so scummy, but he is always scummy... where do I draw the line for him?"

[Jorbles]

Really, things were very very close to going town's way. You were so close to lynching raerae yesterday! Jorbles would have had a tough time winning from that position, I think.

Town simply misused (not deliberately) its PRs. Jimm's doc and Insomniac's bus drive both misfired. Yuma roleblocked the pillage but not the kill.

well at least I can feel good about that. Who did the NK. Please don't say it was arch...

Okay then, I won't say it...

If it was the night Arch did the kill he had a special kill due to buying the Royal Seal (which I actually think was a little OP for its $3 price tag, but oh well  ). It made his kill go first in the stack so it would happen before roleblocks/doctors making it essentially a Strongman kill. We were having him do all the kills while he had it.

[Insomniac]

Shame on you all for not listening to me yesterday.

I had the scum team dead to rights (finally), but you killed me instead.  Insom, why?

you've seen the case I had on you and lynching me would have been very bad as I had one shot bus driver and tried to get raerae to shoot herself last night

[yuma]

Shame on you all for not listening to me yesterday.

see the QT for my most compelling case on you ever... I think I had like 35 points... raerae and jorbles did you use parts of it in your case on ash?

If so I will live forever in my shame.

I'll check it out.  But really, you thought I was scum?  You used to read me so well.

You were pretty scummy....

You should all know by now that "pretty scummy" is just "me."

well this time it was more than just your meta. It was where you were on wagons, opinions, statements... you know things that could actually be supported. But maybe I just wanted you to be scum because town was headed that direction and I wanted to win.

My voting was no worse than yours, for example.  And I had darn good cases on raerae/Jorbles that last day.  As Robz mentioned, my reads improved as the game went forward.

I was definitely way wrong on Ozle, though.  But he's scummy the way I'm scummy, I think, just inherently.

well yes, and that is why I wasn't surprised when people were voting for me. I mean, I am still surprised I didn't get lynched and that I was NKed.

That was actually the biggest thing ash. I thought that you knew that I would be coming after you, so you felt that you had to kill me. It was how I rationalized me getting killed instead of sudgy. I didn't have the doc information I guess.

And this game wasn't a closed setup. It was semi-closed. Not everyone was given the same amount of setup information. I for example never knew there was even the potential of vengekills. And most of that was based of which doors I went through--or random luck--yes, part of it was that people with more coins got to explore more.

Also.... Not having Ozle really, really hurt in the end. They woulnd't hvae been able to pull that scheme off at the end if we had one more townie alive.

[Robz888]

PRs that went to Scum (Useful ones in bold)
$3 Watchtower -- Know who is in the room with you during the night. (permanent)
$5 Talisman -- For the next day, your vote counts double. (1-shot)
$3 Royal Seal -- When you submit an action or use an item, it will resolve first. (Permanent)
$12 Ill-Gotten Gains -- If you are lynched, you may choose another player. That player will also die.
$10 Forge -- When you are in a room with an empty vault, you may use this to gain an item from an empty vault.
$3 Grand Market -- Unlimited buys (Permanent)
$5P Possession -- Choose a player. For the rest of the game, that player will become a Miller; his alignment will appear as scum for all investigative or Innocent Child purposes. (1-shot)

PRs that went to Town
$1 Loan -- When you buy this, +$3. At the end of the next day, earn $1 less than you would (but not less than zero). (1-shot)
$2 Embargo -- When you play this, no other player may enter or leave the room you are currently in until the next night begins (1-shot)
$5 Moat -- When a player uses an item on you, it will have no effect. (1-shot)
$2 Quarry -- You may use this just as you are buying an item. The cost of that item is lowered by $4. (1-shot)
8 Oracle -- Name 2 other players. You will be told if at least 1 of them are scum. (1-shot)
$3 Rabble -- Choose a player. That player will be roleblocked. (1-shot)
$6 Noble Brigand -- Name two players. Those two players will be Bus Driven. Any action taken against one will instead impact the other. (1-shot)
$9 Platinum Key -- It now costs $3 for all members of your faction to enter a Platinum Room.
$6 Treasure Map -- See the entire layout of the Bank. (Permanent)
$6 Treasure Map -- See the entire layout of the Bank. (Permanent)
$6 Gold Key -- It now costs $2 for all members of your faction to enter a Gold Room. (permanent)
$8 Saboteur -- Name a player. That player will be doctored. (1-shot)
$9 Island -- You may commute. You will be out of the game while all actions resolve. You are then returned to the game. (1-shot)

[raerae]

Shame on you all for not listening to me yesterday.

I had the scum team dead to rights (finally), but you killed me instead.  Insom, why?

you've seen the case I had on you and lynching me would have been very bad as I had one shot bus driver and tried to get raerae to shoot herself last night

So...assisted suicide?

[Jorbles]

Robz, we are idiots.  Why did we not just kill me right away??  Good gravy.

I was wondering that myself.

As soon as your night kill succeeded, you had won. But you guys didn't realize it!

There were some things that could have stopped your night kill, though. Insomniac bus drove the wrong people, and you avoided the commuter (who didn't commute any way).

We could have still lost if I had been lynched. I just needed to not be quicklynched by Eevee, Jimmm and sudgy, something I admit was a longshot, but having the Talisman meant I just needed to wait for one other person to vote. Raerae's claim was more to draw votes away from me than to actually succeed, that and to slow things down.

Sorry I didn't vote straight off the bat.  I am apparently awful at being scum.  And thinking things all the way through...

I thought you were waiting to make sure I was online. So I posted something innocuous so you'd know I was, but then you still didn't vote so I went and played video games for a bit and checked back in. 

[Insomniac]

Also btw I pmd robz last night the scum team, i was just trying to decide who they would shoot and who would shoot. (I said it was raerae/jorbles) I thought raerae would shoot and that she would shoot sudgy. I never in a million years thought I would be the NK.

[Robz888]

And this game wasn't a closed setup. It was semi-closed. Not everyone was given the same amount of setup information. I for example never knew there was even the potential of vengekills. And most of that was based of which doors I went through--or random luck--yes, part of it was that people with more coins got to explore more.

Also.... Not having Ozle really, really hurt in the end. They woulnd't hvae been able to pull that scheme off at the end if we had one more townie alive.

Well, I think your method of playing might have hurt you there. I think the town might have benefited from sharing more information. it was really important to get into the Platinum Room, so some coordination there may have helped.

But scum didn't have the double vengekills until last night. It does seem a bit crazy and bastard that it ended like that, but really that was just the culmination of nights and nights of scum plotting, that would have failed if you guys caught on just one death earlier.

[Jorbles]

Shame on you all for not listening to me yesterday.

I had the scum team dead to rights (finally), but you killed me instead.  Insom, why?

you've seen the case I had on you and lynching me would have been very bad as I had one shot bus driver and tried to get raerae to shoot herself last night

Instead she Pillaged herself. It was a smart play to try and do that. I knew someone had the Doctor which is why I didn't want to kill sudgy. Extra lucky that it also meant we didn't shoot ourselves.

[Robz888]

Also btw I pmd robz last night the scum team, i was just trying to decide who they would shoot and who would shoot. (I said it was raerae/jorbles) I thought raerae would shoot and that she would shoot sudgy. I never in a million years thought I would be the NK.

That's one example of how scum outplayed you guys, though. They were never on their game more than when they were picking night targets. They wisely avoided obvious shots, and it mega mega paid off.

[Robz888]

Oh god I didn't even think of Ozle. Yeah, that ended up costing you guys. Big time.

I would have modkilled him at that point regardless of his alignment though.

[Insomniac]

Also btw I pmd robz last night the scum team, i was just trying to decide who they would shoot and who would shoot. (I said it was raerae/jorbles) I thought raerae would shoot and that she would shoot sudgy. I never in a million years thought I would be the NK.

That's one example of how scum outplayed you guys, though. They were never on their game more than when they were picking night targets. They wisely avoided obvious shots, and it mega mega paid off.

I actually thought about targeting Eevee for a while instead of sudgy. But no matter who I chose I couldn't win because they decided to kill me.

[yuma]

Oh god I didn't even think of Ozle. Yeah, that ended up costing you guys. Big time.

I would have modkilled him at that point regardless of his alignment though.

yeah... super sucked. And I don't blame you for the mod kill. I blame Ozle for bailing on us.

And, sorry, one more little criticism. I think one of the biggest problems with games with 13+ players is that it also saps the pool for potential replacements and makes subbing into a game over whelming if you don't do it before day2. In another game a day4 replacement is possible. In this one I doubt you even considered it.

[Robz888]

Oh god I didn't even think of Ozle. Yeah, that ended up costing you guys. Big time.

I would have modkilled him at that point regardless of his alignment though.

yeah... super sucked. And I don't blame you for the mod kill. I blame Ozle for bailing on us.

And, sorry, one more little criticism. I think one of the biggest problems with games with 13+ players is that it also saps the pool for potential replacements and makes subbing into a game over whelming if you don't do it before day2. In another game a day4 replacement is possible. In this one I doubt you even considered it.

Oh I don't disagree with you at all there. Although I would be loathe to make a Day 4 replacement in any game of any number. The specific problem here too, which I didn't think of, is we couldn't have sub-backs, because everyone was still "in" the game, in the qts. So that was definitely a flaw I hadn't considered.

The reason I wanted a lot of players was to make the exploratory phase of the game worthwhile. But I do think the consensus among players is for smaller games, so I won't run one with so many people again.

[Jorbles]

PRs that went to Scum (Useful ones in bold)
$3 Watchtower -- Know who is in the room with you during the night. (permanent)
$5 Talisman -- For the next day, your vote counts double. (1-shot)
$9 Platinum Key -- It now costs $3 for all members of your faction to enter a Platinum Room.
$3 Royal Seal -- When you submit an action or use an item, it will resolve first. (Permanent)
$12 Ill-Gotten Gains -- If you are lynched, you may choose another player. That player will also die.
$10 Forge -- When you are in a room with an empty vault, you may use this to gain an item from an empty vault.
$3 Grand Market -- Unlimited buys (Permanent)
$5P Possession -- Choose a player. For the rest of the game, that player will become a Miller; his alignment will appear as scum for all investigative or Innocent Child purposes. (1-shot)

PRs that went to Town
$1 Loan -- When you buy this, +$3. At the end of the next day, earn $1 less than you would (but not less than zero). (1-shot)
$2 Embargo -- When you play this, no other player may enter or leave the room you are currently in until the next night begins (1-shot)
$5 Moat -- When a player uses an item on you, it will have no effect. (1-shot)
$2 Quarry -- You may use this just as you are buying an item. The cost of that item is lowered by $4. (1-shot)
8 Oracle -- Name 2 other players. You will be told if at least 1 of them are scum. (1-shot)
$3 Rabble -- Choose a player. That player will be roleblocked. (1-shot)
$6 Noble Brigand -- Name two players. Those two players will be Bus Driven. Any action taken against one will instead impact the other. (1-shot)
$6 Treasure Map -- See the entire layout of the Bank. (Permanent)
$6 Treasure Map -- See the entire layout of the Bank. (Permanent)
$6 Gold Key -- It now costs $2 for all members of your faction to enter a Gold Room. (permanent)
$8 Saboteur -- Name a player. That player will be doctored. (1-shot)
$9 Island -- You may commute. You will be out of the game while all actions resolve. You are then returned to the game. (1-shot)

We didn't buy the Platinum key did we? I remember we killed mcmc because we thought he had it. Actually our kills were really heavily driven by our knowledge of night stuff.

N1-I caught xeiron buying the treasure map because I bid against him on it and then bought the watchtower to ID him. The watchtower ended up being huge btw. We knew our advantage at night was due to having more info than town, so getting an early treasure map claim out of the way was huge.
N2-liopoil we just killed for being towny.
N3-we killed mcmc because we worked out that his crazy talking to himself was about him bidding against Archetype for the Platinum key. We let him buy it and then killed him.
N4-We killed yuma because we knew he'd seen the Talisman and we figured he'd work out how powerful it was right away. (Plus I am totally scared of yuma) We figured sudgy would be protected by someone... he was.
N5-We killed Insomniac because it was kill we thought most likely to go through. We knew sudgy was on the opposite side of the board from the Gold Room where people had bought the Doctor and Commute. I really doubted anyone would protect Insomniac with the Doctor, so we'd narrowed down those purchases to Jimmmm, Eevee and ash (who was dead). When I bumped into Insomniac on the other side of the board far from that room I knew that Eevee and Jimmm had bought the Doctor and the Commute. We couldn't risk trying to shoot the Commuter so we killed Insom.

[yuma]

Oh god I didn't even think of Ozle. Yeah, that ended up costing you guys. Big time.

I would have modkilled him at that point regardless of his alignment though.

yeah... super sucked. And I don't blame you for the mod kill. I blame Ozle for bailing on us.

And, sorry, one more little criticism. I think one of the biggest problems with games with 13+ players is that it also saps the pool for potential replacements and makes subbing into a game over whelming if you don't do it before day2. In another game a day4 replacement is possible. In this one I doubt you even considered it.

Oh I don't disagree with you at all there. Although I would be loathe to make a Day 4 replacement in any game of any number. The specific problem here too, which I didn't think of, is we couldn't have sub-backs, because everyone was still "in" the game, in the qts. So that was definitely a flaw I hadn't considered.

Yes sub-backs is the only way to do ~ day4 subs. And this game wasn't possible, you are right.