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[ashersky]

that is exactly what I wanted to hear and I believe you. I never asked how much it cost to enter a room, nor did Ozle. Ozle asked if he could, I didn't ask anything. So I think the difference in your repsonse was that you asked how much it cost. As such, Robz told you more because it doesn't have a "cost" it has a requirement. I wanted to make sure that is actually what happened before I jumped to that conclusion and gave you an answer to a question. Sorry if this was frustrating for you.

I believe ash in this regard.

I do think the phrasing of the question is what resulted in the different phrasing of the answer.  Still think it put me in a difficult position (grumbleRobzgrumble).

[yuma]

that is exactly what I wanted to hear and I believe you. I never asked how much it cost to enter a room, nor did Ozle. Ozle asked if he could, I didn't ask anything. So I think the difference in your repsonse was that you asked how much it cost. As such, Robz told you more because it doesn't have a "cost" it has a requirement. I wanted to make sure that is actually what happened before I jumped to that conclusion and gave you an answer to a question. Sorry if this was frustrating for you.

I believe ash in this regard.

I do think the phrasing of the question is what resulted in the different phrasing of the answer.  Still think it put me in a difficult position (grumbleRobzgrumble).

right. I thought for a minute that I might have caught you in something, but I wanted to make sure before I put it forward. Even if I felt I had caught you in something I would be very hesitant to base a lynch off it. It would have to be part of a greater case with more evidence than that.

[Insomniac]

Unvote

Ok so I guess I won't vote for sudgy even though I do believe he is the best person to lynch and I'll make a big post here covering that and a few different other things.

My Lurking:
1) The weekend just ended, I was out of town this weekend
2) Once the weekend ended (before GokoDom v Robz) my computer died
3) I now have access to a computer again but didn't have it for much time last night aside from the gokodom game.
4) I am burnt out from Mafia but that is not at all why I am not posting, I am saying the things I have to say and not trying to flood. I signed up for this game even though I was burnt out because of the explore mechanic. I am taking a break after this game, I do not know when/if I will return.


Sudgy:
1) I have vision of the room that has the gold key, I confirm it was purchased.
2) I confirm the Oracle was also purchased.
3) The Gold Key is only useful tonight.
4) I have no money and do not know the location of any gold rooms, thus I cannot personally verify Sudgy's claim. And you'll consider me skeptical of anyone that can.
5) Therefore I still think Sudgy is the best lynch for today. However I will not re vote for him yet as other people don't want to lynch him

[raerae]

I reread mcmc and haven't found anything that is super stereotypical scum mcmc.  I do, however, believe he's a smart cookie and one of these times will switch up his tactics.  This quote in particular stuck out to me because it isn't the first time he's mentioned my reason for not voting jimmmmm wasn't good enough.  Just because you disagree with another persons reason for something, doesn't make it any less of a reason.  This feels a bit like scum mcmc trying to start something/set something up (especially since I'm pretty sure this is the first time he's called me suspicious but says ash & I "continue" to be) but I'm not sold on that just yet. 

Arch and/or Insom will be my next reread and I'll do my best to make that happen tomorrow night but I am officially v/la 4/16, 17, & 18 so my vote will probably stay where it is if you guys want to push the 18th for the soft-deadline.

1. How in the world do I look suspicious from that? I felt he was towny, up until the point where he said he would self hammer I was still not comfortable with his lynch.

2. I agree arch looks scummy and think he's a good lynch. Also raerae and ash continue to be suspicious. I remember there unwillingness to lynch Jimm was very frustrating and they gave very little reasoning as to why. Then they settle on to mail-mi which was such a worse lynch I did it hard to believe they are just bad town.

[Lekkit]

@Jimm: Allright, here's what I got from a quick read-through. I would probably do a more thurough if you had been lynched as it's basically just theory now.

First let's start with the narrative that you would flip scum.

I only noted two things here and those are:

Making a case on a scum wagon that's about to take off wouldn't really be scum's top priority after loosing a team mate day 1. So it would make mcmc look a bit more towny.

I think this is the first time anyone mentioned why they didn't like your lynch. That would make Eevee look a bit scummy if you actually turned out to be scum.

Then we move on to the town narrative.

Oh, you know, just moving the vote to the largest wagon, because, why not?

Let's do the easiest lynch. I don't really care if it's Jimm or not. If someone cares to make a better case, I might be willing to sheep the case, but I really want to lynch someone right now, and I think Jimm is the likliest to be lynched. If it turned out you were town, this wouldn't look good for yuma at all.

Then we have some general vote switching from lio, mail-mi and to some extent yuma just trying to make a lynch happen. If they were on your wagon, I would assume that at least one of them were probably scum. And yuma comes off looking extra bad, since he was also off the Kooshie wagon.

[Lekkit]

I also found some weird stuff while rereading.

Yuma's still here, right?

vote: ashersky

That should get Jimmmmm back to L-2.

Could you explain what your town read is on jimmmm for me?

You also missed this one?

Why are you so opposed to Jimmm lynch?
What has he done exactly that has seemed townie to you?

Or do you only want to tunnel me now (and to a lesser extent Yuma, but I could see why you put your vote on me out of the two, its because Yuma is scary!)

Sorry, missed that one.  I've explained this ad naseum, by the way.  My town read on Jimmmmm is based on my meta-understanding of Jimmmmm's way of playing, his towny actions on D2, and his pro-town willingness to self-hammer.

My vote on me is real.  My lynch is a better one than Jimmmmm's.  I have access to stuff on the map, sure, and whatever I may have in my possession already, but there's no guarantee I survive.  I'm still a VT--I'd rather lose a VT than an unknown.

Wouldn't it always be better to lynch an unknown than a VT in a game where most of us are either vanilla or kind of above vanilla or scum? You won't win games by prefering to self lynch over lynching others.

[Eevee]

I'm actually tempted to vote for yuma. Scummy actions starting to add up (referring to the Kooshie, mail-mi and Jimmm stuff).

Yes, I'll Vote: yuma

[Lekkit]

Here's an argument I can make now. Ignoring the Bastard game I've been in two games which started around the same time. In one I was plenty active and most people had Town reads on me, and in the other one I haven't been been. Guess which game I've been prioritising? The game I was scum in. Read the scum QT to see all the scheming we did. I implored my teammate early on not to lurk. I hate that I've made myself resort to using this argument, but it's there.

But, as far as Town lynches go, I'm not a bad one.

Why did you think you weren't a bad lynch? I've given my reasons beyond having a town-read on you. Willing to return the favor?

[Lekkit]

I agree that yuma looks worse and worse. Assuming that my read on Jimm is correct: Vote: yuma

[Jimmmmm]

Here's an argument I can make now. Ignoring the Bastard game I've been in two games which started around the same time. In one I was plenty active and most people had Town reads on me, and in the other one I haven't been been. Guess which game I've been prioritising? The game I was scum in. Read the scum QT to see all the scheming we did. I implored my teammate early on not to lurk. I hate that I've made myself resort to using this argument, but it's there.

But, as far as Town lynches go, I'm not a bad one.

Why did you think you weren't a bad lynch? I've given my reasons beyond having a town-read on you. Willing to return the favor?

Because I hadn't been keeping up with the game and didn't really see myself being able to catch up and start contributing significantly. I think mostly I was just annoyed at myself because I had been contributing so little that I knew I deserved to be lynched.

[yuma]

I'm actually tempted to vote for yuma. Scummy actions starting to add up (referring to the Kooshie, mail-mi and Jimmm stuff).

Yes, I'll Vote: yuma

you mind saying what stuff more specifically?

Kooshie I can guess, being off wagon? Is there anything else?

mail-mi? Lynching?

But what about Jimmm?

And what separates me from all the other players that didn't lynch kooshie, but lynched mail-mi?

[yuma]

I agree that yuma looks worse and worse. Assuming that my read on Jimm is correct: Vote: yuma

again, mind saying what? I can't respond to "worse and worse"

[Eevee]

I'm actually tempted to vote for yuma. Scummy actions starting to add up (referring to the Kooshie, mail-mi and Jimmm stuff).

Yes, I'll Vote: yuma

you mind saying what stuff more specifically?

Kooshie I can guess, being off wagon? Is there anything else?

mail-mi? Lynching?

But what about Jimmm?

And what separates me from all the other players that didn't lynch kooshie, but lynched mail-mi?

Well, you really should have known better than to join the mail-mi lynch, especially after being off-wagon day 1 yourself (presumably knowing you are town). You made this case on yourself, which distracted me at first, but really, it is just a scummy action.

This post, remember that I come from a perspective where Jimm is a town read. You were arguing "there are no other viable lynch targets, are there?", and then eventually ended up participating in lynching someone who was ON the Kooshie wagon (so clearly Jimmm wasnt the only viable option).

Idk, it's just that you've been a clear leader and active enough to escape people's suspicions a lot, but the fact remains that you a) were off the mafia lynch day 1 and b) were on the (in my opinion stupid) town lynch day 2 (despite being an off wagon guy!) and also tried to make the lynch of someone I read town happen day 2. That's just a lot of scummy voting behavior, especially for someone held to a high standard such as yourself.

Being a vocal leader that just manipulates the town into it's own destruction is a known scum-yuma strategy (you employed in MaM very recently for example). Could it be that you saw your partner going down day 1 and decided you need to take risks to turn it around for scum and just started actively pushing for scum's agenda hoping no one realizes?

[Lekkit]

I agree that yuma looks worse and worse. Assuming that my read on Jimm is correct: Vote: yuma

again, mind saying what? I can't respond to "worse and worse"

First you were off the Kooshie wagon. Then look at the hypothetical post I made earlier today. Again, I'm basing this mostly my townread Jimm. Add to the fact, that you yourself pointed out, that you didn't want to lynch mail-mi, but did anyway. Because you forgot that you had a townread on him.

alright here is my long awaited (and eagerly anticipated) reread on who joined the mail-mi wagon and why:

but before I do that. I found this quote from myself from early day2 that makes me absolutely sick to my stomach:

1- He had a scumread on mail-mi. While I won't give mail-mi confirmed town status, I think he is pretty close to it, because he was the other viable lynch option and I just don't see scum allowing two of their players to become the focus day1. That would just be terrible play I think. As such, mcmc had a scum read on an almost IC.

I had apparently completely forgotten about this thought of mine going into the end of day2. GAH! I am not happy with myself at over this.

But the reason that I am posting it is thus: in a game this big it becomes very easy to forget about the past. We get so caught up in the moment, in what is jumping out to us at that specific moment that we lose sight of reads we had previously that were completely legitimate. I don't know if there is a way to alleviate that, except to just caution people from doing what I did... focusing too much on something at the moment and forgetting about the past. A simple reread probably would have reminded me of this quote and would have stopped me from voting mail-mi. I don't think that would have necessarily stopped his lynch, but it might have.

Remember?

[Eevee]

Yuma, it seems to me like you are pointing out all the scummy stuff you've done yourself before anyone else builds a case around them. Being the one to dig them up doesn't absolve you of the blame.

[Jorbles]

Yuma, it seems to me like you are pointing out all the scummy stuff you've done yourself before anyone else builds a case around them. Being the one to dig them up doesn't absolve you of the blame.

Yeah, actually I totally agree with this. D1, and D2, I keep running lists of who we should vote for based on the lynches and yuma's name keeps coming up. I never vote for him because he's always leading the charge with a compelling case, but this could just be really smart scum play, which we all know yuma is more than capable of. He has been coming out ahead of all the cases that come up about him so he can spin his apology as "bad" play instead of "scummy" play.

Vote: yuma

I'd go back to Archetype if that's what everyone thinks best, but since there isn't a rush to lynch Arch right now, I am totally willing to lynch yuma.

[Archetype]

Hey, guys please dont lynch me. As some of you are aware, I'm V/LA and am only on mobile. I promise to give this top priority (Well, 2nd. I have the BMX stuff) when I get back. I don't mind too much if you lynch me, but at least give me a chance to defend myself.

[Robz888]

Vote Count 3.4

Archetype (1) -- yuma
Lekkit (3) -- Archetype, sudgy, raerae
Ozle (1) -- ashersky
yuma (3) -- Eevee, Lekkit, Jorbles

Not Voting (4) -- Ozle, mcmcsalot, Jimm, Insomniac

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. There are 20 days remaining. Deadline is May 6 at 7:00 PM.

[Insomniac]

So you guys complain about me lurking but when I actually post something no one interacts with it at all? Really?

[yuma]

Alright three votes on me and I wouldn't be surprised if more join in soon.

I will address what I can:

First of all, from a neutral perspective I agree that I am a good lynch (or rather, I know I am town and know I am not, but at least from where I have fallen in regard to the previous day's lynches I appear to be a good lynch).

I understand the case against me and see that it certainly has merit. It is unfortunate because I have been trying to play a very townie game, but seemingly have failed.

Here are the points as I see them (thanks to eevee and lekkit for clarifiying further what they found scummy about me:

1 - I wasn't on the kooshie wagon. True. I wasn't. But let's go back and look why I wasn't on the kooshie wagon shall we. If you go back and read my posts you will notice that I never mention Kooshie, never mention the wagon building on kooshie. Why is this? Well mainly, it is because at that time I had very limited access to the internet. I had just changed apts and only had access at the library. So at that time my field of vision was very small. In fact I was still fully focused on looking more closely at lio and quashing stupid map claims. My last posts before the kooshie lynch were discussing my own meta with ashersky. At that time, I believe kooshie was at 4 votes.

so the question you have to ask yourself is this... Would scum!yuma not talk about (either defend or bus) his partner when his partner was at 4 votes? Would he completely ignore the wagon on his partner? You can answer for yourself, but my answer is an emphatic no. I don't play scum that way. Look at MXIX or MXX as examples of either bussing or defending. Could I have tried a different strategy? Yes, but that is a stupid strategy. When you are scum you have to be aggressive and push and try and lead town away. I didn't do that day1 at all.

2 - I was on the mail-mi lynch. True I was. Now, let's look at why I was. From the beginning of the day I attempted to get votes on people off the kooshie wagon. I felt that was the best place for a lynch. I tried and suggested and went through Jimmm, mcmc, Ozle, archetype and insomniac. None of those lynches took! I was extremely frustrated. Frustrated by the lack of participation from some, the stubbornness of others. It was a very long day, long enough to forget things I had noticed before. And mail-mi did some very stilly, anti-town things that distracted me. I don't excuse myself. As I said before I should have known better as town. But the question that you have to ask yourselves again is: Would scum!yuma completely abandon everything he had said before and push a lynch on someone that he had previously given a town read to that same day? Would he be that careless and obviously bad? You can answer for your self, but again the answer is no! As scum I am meticulous, I am careful and above all I don't get mixed up. (well sometimes I pretend to get mixed up, see MXIX and my fake jtotheonah claim) When I am town I am much more relaxed and often make mistakes (MXV where I derphammered Galz, MIX where I pushed a fake case on sparky, only to find out that he was actually scum, MXVII where I blindly ignored Lekkit's scumminess and on and on).

3 - I pushed the Jimmmm wagon hard and because some people have a town read on Jimmm this is scummy. I refuse to defend myself for doing this. Jimmmm fit the bill for scum. he should have been lynched. Town would be in a better position if he was lynched. And eevee, you dont' know his alignment. So any extrapolation that you make off that is very prone to error and this point is mute.

4 - The other question that you have to ask is thus: am I a better lynch than the other players who were also off the kooshie wagon and on the mail-mi wagon? Again you can answer for yourself, but I think the answer is no! Who are the other options: Ozle, archetype and Jimmmm. I have voted for all three and in my estimation the best lynch is archetype. Show me what he has down that absolves him from being voted? Jimmm I still think is a better lynch. Ozle I have more of a town read on based off how he reacted to his wagon and interacted with me. But if you are going to lynch me, you first have to prove to me that I am a better lynch than Archetype. I do not believe that this can be done.

So if you can answer yes to questions I pose in 1, 2 and 4, then I guess vote for me. I won't blame you. I will fight you the whole way, but I won't blame you. But if you answer no, then I think you should really go back and look more closely at archetype and jimmmm who I think our are top choices for a lynch today.

[yuma]

So you guys complain about me lurking but when I actually post something no one interacts with it at all? Really?

Unvote

Ok so I guess I won't vote for sudgy even though I do believe he is the best person to lynch and I'll make a big post here covering that and a few different other things.

My Lurking:
1) The weekend just ended, I was out of town this weekend
2) Once the weekend ended (before GokoDom v Robz) my computer died
3) I now have access to a computer again but didn't have it for much time last night aside from the gokodom game.
4) I am burnt out from Mafia but that is not at all why I am not posting, I am saying the things I have to say and not trying to flood. I signed up for this game even though I was burnt out because of the explore mechanic. I am taking a break after this game, I do not know when/if I will return.


Sudgy:
1) I have vision of the room that has the gold key, I confirm it was purchased.
2) I confirm the Oracle was also purchased.
3) The Gold Key is only useful tonight.
4) I have no money and do not know the location of any gold rooms, thus I cannot personally verify Sudgy's claim. And you'll consider me skeptical of anyone that can.
5) Therefore I still think Sudgy is the best lynch for today. However I will not re vote for him yet as other people don't want to lynch him

what do you want us to say? You haven't really said anything new. I mean I appreciate that you are busy and not quite as invested in this game, and I appreciate that you did post. But you posting about stuff that we already decided a much earlier date.

You talk about the key... that is nice I guess. And yes we have to take sudgy's claim with a grain of salt, just like we do any other claim in this game. I still think it is ridiculous that you think sudgy is the best lynch for today. If tomorrow you think that multiple people can now enter gold rooms (maybe it will just be one player.. we won't know until we try) are all in cahoots together to prevent a sudgy lynch then I guess we found the scum team and can lynch them one by one. But let's wait until tomorrow to figure that out eh?

Do you have any other thoughts about say... me or archetype? Or anything else that has been talked about in all of today?

[Eevee]

yuma, i'm rereading some stuff and trying to respond to you. In the mean time, what do you think of me (in the context of alignment in this game)?

[yuma]

yuma, i'm rereading some stuff and trying to respond to you. In the mean time, what do you think of me (in the context of alignment in this game)?

I don't know.

[Eevee]

I'm not really fine with it. I would much rather lynch mail-mi.

I'm rereading sparky, this jumps out after sparky says "the kooshie lynch seems to be happening, it has my support". The quote has mcmc not approving with a scum lynch and wanting a town lynch instead.

yuma, I was asking because of "And eevee, you dont' know his alignment. So any extrapolation that you make off that is very prone to error and this point is mute." I know, scum slips are dumb, but this does seem to imply you know I'm town.

[yuma]

yuma, I was asking because of "And eevee, you dont' know his alignment. So any extrapolation that you make off that is very prone to error and this point is mute." I know, scum slips are dumb, but this does seem to imply you know I'm town.

I don't understand. I don't see the connection between my quote and what you are implying.