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Author Topic: Mafia XXII: Bankers Beware -- GAME OVER, SCUM WIN  (Read 224118 times)

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ashersky

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Re: Mafia XXII: Bankers Beware (Day 3)
« Reply #1725 on: April 17, 2013, 02:33:42 am »

Should we do a ranking or percentage thingy again to get some thoughts down on paper and stuff to talk about again?

Scummy to Towny List:

Ozle >>> Jorbles >>> mcmcsalot >>> Eevee >>> Lekkit >>> Insomniac >>> yuma >>> sudgy/raerae/Archetype/Jimmmmm >>> ashersky

The four with slashes are nullish towny reads.  I'm worried at least one of them is an under-the-radar scum (probably raerae).
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Re: Mafia XXII: Bankers Beware (Day 3)
« Reply #1726 on: April 17, 2013, 05:17:53 am »

Should we do a ranking or percentage thingy again to get some thoughts down on paper and stuff to talk about again?

Scummy to Towny List:

Ozle >>> Jorbles >>> mcmcsalot >>> Eevee >>> Lekkit >>> Insomniac >>> yuma >>> sudgy/raerae/Archetype/Jimmmmm >>> ashersky

The four with slashes are nullish towny reads.  I'm worried at least one of them is an under-the-radar scum (probably raerae).

I'll be honest. I don't know how you can have archetype in your "nullish/townie" read. Care to explain that a bit further?
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ashersky

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Re: Mafia XXII: Bankers Beware (Day 3)
« Reply #1727 on: April 17, 2013, 05:51:43 am »

Should we do a ranking or percentage thingy again to get some thoughts down on paper and stuff to talk about again?

Scummy to Towny List:

Ozle >>> Jorbles >>> mcmcsalot >>> Eevee >>> Lekkit >>> Insomniac >>> yuma >>> sudgy/raerae/Archetype/Jimmmmm >>> ashersky

The four with slashes are nullish towny reads.  I'm worried at least one of them is an under-the-radar scum (probably raerae).

I'll be honest. I don't know how you can have archetype in your "nullish/townie" read. Care to explain that a bit further?

I've just got nothing on him.  No one will repeat whatever the case on him was.  I just see him as a lurker in this game.  Wouldn't fight his lynch, I guess, but he just isn't as scummy as Ozle and Jorbles, my preferred lynches.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: Mafia XXII: Bankers Beware (Day 3)
« Reply #1728 on: April 17, 2013, 05:55:03 am »

You have 7-9 people who you'd rather lynch than Arch, but you wouldn't fight his lynch?
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ashersky

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Re: Mafia XXII: Bankers Beware (Day 3)
« Reply #1729 on: April 17, 2013, 05:58:48 am »

You have 7-9 people who you'd rather lynch than Arch, but you wouldn't fight his lynch?

I have seven people I have varying scum reads on.  At this point, in this game, I don't know that I'd fight anyone's lynch.  The only person I am sure is town is me.
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Re: Mafia XXII: Bankers Beware (Day 3)
« Reply #1730 on: April 17, 2013, 09:35:11 am »

Scum to town. Take into account this is done with no reread just following along,
I am totally burned out on this game and trying to get back in.
Also I forgot arch was sparky, I though sparky was towny but that was a while ago.

Scum- Jimm, arch, ozzle
Slight scum- Yuma, raerae, eevee, ash
Slight town- lekkit, sudgy
Town- insom, jorbles
Scum <-> Town

Sooo yea there ya go, the slight scum reads could move very easily, it's less of a slight
Scum list but a potential scum list and willing to lynch if I find them scummy.
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yuma

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Re: Mafia XXII: Bankers Beware (Day 3)
« Reply #1731 on: April 17, 2013, 11:05:00 am »

Alright, the case on Archetype:

the sparky era:
37 posts
 - first 11 posts are all RVS and theory talk (fair enough, it is early).
 - calls ashersky's style annoying, says I am hard to read, calls out insomniac for not posting much
 - 6 more theory/fluff posts
 - would vote insomniac, but hesitant because he has so many votes, at that point he had 4.
 - calls out kooshie for a scum slip; first time mentioning kooshie, says the case is worth a reread (at this point kooshie is at 4 votes I think (note that here is the time when I mention that scum would and should at least note a scum partner. The wagon is growing, they need to either start to defend or getting in line to buss if it comes to that... this is exactly what sparky was doing. And exactly what I didn't do at the same time, because I wasn't worried about a scummate!)
 - asks kooshie some questions, more suspicious
 - puts support behind lynch, still doesn't vote
 - asks mcmc for his thoughts on mail-mi, expresses a scum read, perhaps considering getting an alternate wagon going to deflect from kooshie?
 - eevee calls out kooshie for being scummy saying, "sparky's general attitude towards the impending kooshie lynch seem scummy to me. Looks like he is looking for a safe way to get this lynch through."
 - sparky responds saying he wouldn't put someone to L-1 w/o a consensus. This screams to me of scum trying to play it safe; being willing to join in on a buss, but not wanting to do so.
 - says it is because he learned to be cautious from playing scum a lot.
day2:
 - inclined to look on wagon for bussers
 - says xeiron swiped his vote
 - townie read on lio
 - scummy read on insmoniac, reiterates his reason for not putting kooshie to l-1.
 - some more talk about the kooshie wagon and insomniac
 - says he can be easily frustrated as scum

The archetype era:
18 posts:
day 2:
 - first four posts are promising a reread, (fair he is just coming in and that day2 was starting to get dense)
 - big points from his reread are: map claim is bad (theory), town reads on (ash, raerae, Ozle) scum reads on (jimmm, jorbles and mail-mi). But his reasons are... flawed. his reason for ash is "not sure why." go see for yourselves, after a reread, he doesn't give much.
 - quotes cases on jimmmm "saying" This, but then says he isn't sold on the Jimmmm case
 - explains why he has a scum read on Jimmm further and explains some things that he said incorrectly
 - backs off his scum read on Jimmm pretty significantly, ends up voting for mail-mi for basically being "sheepy"
 - again talking about mail-mi, but doesn't really say why
 - talks about a soft deadline
 - reverts back to a Jimmm vote, again quite a change from where he was previously
 - calls hedging a scum tell (lio)
 - back to mail-mi again, says we should analyze jimmm today (has archetype done that... I am going to guess no...)
 - end of day interaction with mail-mi

Day3
 - opens up with a ? Lekkit vote? I am pretty sure that came out of no where. He had never mentioned Lekkit before. But! in the post above Jorbles posts a vote for archetype, within it is a list of scumminess that Jorbles makes that says "raerae, Insomniac, Archetype and especially Lekkit... especially Lekkit. Made an unacceptably small contribution to discussion yesterday. d2 was really long and they made 7 posts or less. That combined with my previous wagon analysis makes me vote: Archetype." So archetype see this vote on him, goes AH! reads that Jorbles has a scum read on Lekkit, and decides to deflect. Also says that Jorbles and Lekkit are his prefered lynches for today. What happened to Jimmm, Archetype?
 - I post a case on him on how I think the above is deflecting. He never responds.
 - says he is VLA. Something I didn't know about, but I'll take his word for it.

In summary:
 - heavy lurker. Definitely toward the bottom in terms of both posts and content.
 - easily could have been setting up a potential buss day1 on kooshie, but was too hesitant.
 - reacted to the beginning of a wagon on a scumbuddy exactly how I would expect scum to react.
 - reads that looked very artificial,
 - changing reads on jimmm, not following through on jimmmm today
 - his deflection vote on lekkit that came out of no where.
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yuma

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Re: Mafia XXII: Bankers Beware (Day 3)
« Reply #1732 on: April 17, 2013, 06:31:32 pm »

you know what my favorite thing in mafia is?

six hour long lulls when we have a soft deadline in two days!

JK. That isn't my favorite at all.
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ashersky

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Re: Mafia XXII: Bankers Beware (Day 3)
« Reply #1733 on: April 17, 2013, 06:32:11 pm »

you know what my favorite thing in mafia is?

six hour long lulls when we have a soft deadline in two days!

JK. That isn't my favorite at all.

Hey, not my fault.  I posted.  Then it was night here.
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Jorbles

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Re: Mafia XXII: Bankers Beware (Day 3)
« Reply #1734 on: April 17, 2013, 07:08:37 pm »

This is a good point. I am willing to lynch yuma, but I'll also switch to Archetype or Jimmmm if those lynches look more likely. Who hasn't been voting recently?

Ozle, mcmc, Jimmmm and Insomniac, if you're still not voting what's going on with that? Also weird coincidence that everyone who isn't voting now was also off the Kooshie wagon?
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Re: Mafia XXII: Bankers Beware (Day 3)
« Reply #1735 on: April 17, 2013, 07:09:36 pm »

This is a good point.

The nonsensical point that I was referring to was that the soft deadline is approaching.
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ashersky

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Re: Mafia XXII: Bankers Beware (Day 3)
« Reply #1736 on: April 17, 2013, 07:17:56 pm »

Since I proposed the popsquiz, only myself and mcmc have done it.  Yuma and Jorbles have posted without doing it.  No one else has posted.  WTF?
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Re: Mafia XXII: Bankers Beware (Day 3)
« Reply #1737 on: April 17, 2013, 07:20:40 pm »

Since I proposed the popsquiz, only myself and mcmc have done it.  Yuma and Jorbles have posted without doing it.  No one else has posted.  WTF?

I answered, just not in the manner you wished...

for me it is archetype/Jimmmm.... all other players.... yuma
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Re: Mafia XXII: Bankers Beware (Day 3)
« Reply #1738 on: April 17, 2013, 07:29:49 pm »

another post count: compare this to the previous one:
Day1 post count Day 2 post count

1. Jimm: 35 77
2. raerae: 26 30
3. yuma: 29 118
4. ashersky: 42 100
5. Insomniac: 10 17
6. Eevee: 21 56
7. Jorbles: 15 41
8. liopoil: 92 124
9. sparky5856 Archetype: 26 31
10. mcmcsalot: 32 69
11. sudgy: 33 44
12. xeiron: 13
13. Lekkit: 16 18
14. Ozle: 65 88
15. Kooshie: 38
16. mail-mi: 39 55

This is total post for the whole game. Subtract the numbers above to get day3 posts (in parenthesis)
1. Jimm - 137 (25)
2. raerae - 64 (8 )
3. yuma - 203 (56)
4. ashersky - 175 (33)
5. Insomniac - 30 (3)
6. Eevee - 100 (23)
7. Jorbles - 73 (17)
9. sparky5856 Archetype 37+22=59 (2)
10. mcmcsalot - 120 (19)
11. sudgy - 96 (19)
13. Lekkit - 52 (18)
14. Ozle - 169 (16)
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Re: Mafia XXII: Bankers Beware (Day 3)
« Reply #1739 on: April 17, 2013, 07:31:30 pm »

I could see myself lynching Archetype or ashersky instead of yuma, but I would prefer yuma.
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Re: Mafia XXII: Bankers Beware (Day 3)
« Reply #1740 on: April 17, 2013, 07:40:30 pm »

Since I proposed the popsquiz, only myself and mcmc have done it.  Yuma and Jorbles have posted without doing it.  No one else has posted.  WTF?

Sorry I missed it. I'll do it quickly now.

Scummy--->towny

Archetype/Jimmmmm/yuma >>> Insomniac/Lekkit/mcmc >>> Ozle/raerae/ashersky >>> Eevee/sudgy >>> Me

Okay I'm out for the day (pub quiz night), but I hope things pick up, by the time I check in tomorrow.
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ashersky

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Re: Mafia XXII: Bankers Beware (Day 3)
« Reply #1741 on: April 17, 2013, 07:49:22 pm »

Since I proposed the popsquiz, only myself and mcmc have done it.  Yuma and Jorbles have posted without doing it.  No one else has posted.  WTF?

I answered, just not in the manner you wished...

for me it is archetype/Jimmmm.... all other players.... yuma

Based on your post count, would you agree that it feels like Jimmmmm has upped his activity but not his content contributions?
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Re: Mafia XXII: Bankers Beware (Day 3)
« Reply #1742 on: April 17, 2013, 09:37:50 pm »

Since I proposed the popsquiz, only myself and mcmc have done it.  Yuma and Jorbles have posted without doing it.  No one else has posted.  WTF?

I answered, just not in the manner you wished...

for me it is archetype/Jimmmm.... all other players.... yuma

Based on your post count, would you agree that it feels like Jimmmmm has upped his activity but not his content contributions?

not really...

Reading back he does have a lot of short posts, sort of those reaction posts you know? The type of post that someone makes immediately in response to something someone says because they are online at the time it was said.

But he has been pretty analytical in regard to sudgy, mcmc, lekkit (big conversation with lekkit), yuma.

It is how I would expect jimmm to play regardless of alignment. I do believe that his previous lurkiness was due to RL business and a focus on another game wrapping up that required his full attention. But I also believe that he may have used that business to cover for his scumminess day2.
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Re: Mafia XXII: Bankers Beware (Day 3)
« Reply #1743 on: April 17, 2013, 09:51:20 pm »

I still firmly don't believe Jimm would play like that as scum. Seems like a disinterested townie more than anything really. Fits the bill too, with this being a large game with everyone being a relative VT and all.

So,

scummy people:
mcmc, yuma, Ozle, Archetype, Insomniac

Others, meh. The meta read on him maybe a bit more than cancels him being off the Kooshie wagon. Jorbles is someone I'm noticing often feels scummy to me, as does Lekkit. Ashersky I think is towny. Others I have very little on. Hard to keep track of such large games, especially after the day 1 scum lynch sort of brought the spotlight on a small subset of people.
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Re: Mafia XXII: Bankers Beware (Day 3)
« Reply #1744 on: April 17, 2013, 09:54:59 pm »

The meta read on him maybe a bit more than cancels him being off the Kooshie wagon.

who is him in this sentence?
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Re: Mafia XXII: Bankers Beware (Day 3)
« Reply #1745 on: April 17, 2013, 09:55:59 pm »

The meta read on him maybe a bit more than cancels him being off the Kooshie wagon.

who is him in this sentence?
Sorry, tired. Jimm.

I think he is towny for appearing disinterested and playing bad (sad as it is), but he is still scummy for not voting for Kooshie.
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Re: Mafia XXII: Bankers Beware (Day 3)
« Reply #1746 on: April 17, 2013, 09:59:53 pm »

I'm not going to go into full analysis at this point but I'll say what I can about each other person off the top of my head.

raerae: Can't remember much of what she's said. Slight scumread based on lack of activity.

yuma: Who knows really? Hasn't felt as polished as say MnM when he was scum. On the other hand, he does seem to be making big assumptions based on almost a formulaic approach: scum's biggest Townread is probscum, people who voted a certain way are probscum, without backing that up with a lot of actual particular reasons. Maybe they were there, I can't remember, but the assumptions seem to be his main arguments.

ashersky: Maybe this comes from bias, I'm not sure, but seems Towny for finding me Towny based on comparing this game to LoTR.

Insomniac: Agrees with me on sudgy, so that's a point in his favour from my point of view.

Eevee: Similar to ash.

Jorbles: Can't seem to remember much that he's said.

sparky5856 Archetype: Neutral. yuma's case looks decent, I'll have to look into that further.

mcmcsalot: Despite wanting to find him scummy for accusing me of being scummy, I am leaning Town. One reason for that is his continuing to argue against me even when others started finding me Towny/less scummy. I feel like scum mcmc is more likely to follow the crowd? I feel differently about yuma on this, though, I can totally see scum yuma sticking with his "read".

sudgy: Still my biggest scumread. I really feel like his reasons for arguing for me and then backflip on that once I called him out on it were fake. I understand why people don't want to lynch him today, and hopefully the key thing can help shed some light one way or another.

Lekkit: I find him fairly scummy for saying he thought I was Town but would support lynching me.

Ozle: Who knows? Leaning slight Town for how loud and in people's faces he's been at times, but I could easily be wrong.

So, if I had to put an order on scumminess:

sudgy > Lekkit > yuma > raerae > Jorbles/Arch > Ozle > mcmc > Insom > Eevee > ash
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Re: Mafia XXII: Bankers Beware (Day 3)
« Reply #1747 on: April 17, 2013, 10:02:12 pm »

Oh sudgy is definitely in the scummy category here too. Raerae maybe too by PoE, but that's not really fair, she's clearly just busy.
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Re: Mafia XXII: Bankers Beware (Day 3)
« Reply #1748 on: April 17, 2013, 10:20:48 pm »

to figure out where everyone stands on me:

voting for me: eevee, lekkit, jorbles

Would vote for me but have not yet: Jimmmm, sudgy

In the middle: ashersky

Won't vote for me: yuma

Has not said anything about me: archetype, insmoniac, raerae, ozle, mcmc (listed me as slight scum, but didn't indicate if he would vote for me or not)
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Re: Mafia XXII: Bankers Beware (Day 3)
« Reply #1749 on: April 18, 2013, 12:39:49 am »

Just got back from V/LA, and thought I'd talk briefly before jumping right back in tomorrow.

yuma or Lekkit are my preffered lynches for today.

For yuma:
Not strictly OMGUS (but that IS definitally a factor whenever you vote for someone already voting for you, not matter how hard you try and deny it), but he was acting fairly strange yesterday. He was on the mail-mi lynch (but I don't have much room to talk, I was on that terrible wagon too), but he was also off the Kooshie lynch (...which tenically I was too, but I've read back and wondered why sparky never voted considering how hard he pushed it).

He's also been leading the Town. A lot. I've played one game when he was scum, and have watched one with him as scum. And he is amazing at playing scum, especially when he's in that driver's seat position. This is more of just personal paranoia than actual evidence, but I just don't want this to be a repeat of M&Ms.

For Lekkit:


He's generally been lurky (Though I guess you could say so have I. But I've been V/LA, not lurky. But I guess a lot people do call V/LA lurking so there's that.) and that whole "Jimmmmm's town, but I'm going to vote for him to speed up his lynch" thing was just soooo scummy. The problem is, the same thing happened with mail-mi, who flipped Town. And I don't really want a repeat of his lynch.

I'm going to leave my vote on Lekkit for now, but could easily switch to yuma. I'd rather Lekkit get lynched today though, because yuma does a good job of leading the Town, when town.

As a whole, people need to step up their game. Rereading a bit of D2 as really shown me how:

1. Someone will brings up a decent case

2. A group of people jump on to that bandwagon

3. Someone brings up another case

4. The same group jumps on that

This just goes around and around, wasting bankable time until a soft deadline is actually enforced and someone gets lynched. Usually it's just whatever case is being looked at that day, regardless if it's a good one or not.

There's probably one lurking scum amongst the group of bandwagoners (sudgy, raerae, Lekkit, etc), but I'm pretty sure the rest are Town that really need to just into this game. Including me.

That's about it for now. I'll talk to you guys tomorrow to hopefully give some reads and see if we can narrow down the scumpool based on the two lynches.
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