Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Lekkit]

Did a quick re-read of Lekkit. The only thing that really stood out to me was him saying he'd support my lynch even though he had a strong Townread on me. Generally it is super bad Town play to lynch someone you think is Town unless you can benefit a lot in other ways because of. Lekkit, you mentioned a couple of times that lynching me would be very informational, and that was why you would support it. What would you conclude from my flip, whether it was Town or scum?

First, I would make a list of who thought you were scummy who thought so with reasons and a list of who didn't. And this is what would make it more informational than, say mail-mi. A lot of people argued as to whether or not they thought you were scum.

Second, I would compare the lynch wagons to see who was on which and who was off. If you were mafia, I would compare who was off your lynch and Kooshie's. Those people would probably be the ones looking worst. If you were town, I would instead compare who was off Kooshie's but on yours. Especially the first-middle voters of your wagon.

Then I would compare the lists.

[Jimmmmm]

But you can do all of that with just about any lynch. Surely it's much better to do that with someone you think is scum than someone you think is Town. I mean yeah, it was unfortunate that we had to resort to a soft-deadline lynch on mail-mi, but there still had to be people saying he was scummy. What would make my lynch in particular informational, and whose alignments in particular would you have a better chance of deducing if I flipped Town or scum?

[yuma]

Regarding ash/myself/ozle I think I might have discovered a solution that would explain everything amicably between the three of us. But first I want ash to explain a little bit more in detail how he found out about the scum key, if he is willing, rather than me giving him an answer that he could use to explain it.

[Lekkit]

So D1, post 390: Moral of the story is lio looks scummy.

I've had a super busy weekend. Don't know if I'll be able to post much tomorrow either. Should be back at tuesday, if nothing else happens. I think lio looks pretty bad, but I'm not totally convinced he's scum.

#469: Lio is super town based on something that happened before I said Lio looks scummy...Oh and Kooshie looks scummy for her defense of the case this person I suddenly decided is townie presented.

Don't you find yourself reading something and then finding something that you missed the first time when you reread?

I think liopoil is town. Based solely on the fact that he came up with a scum team theory day 1. I'm pretty sure scum would like to deflect their wagon onto someone else, but not throw around conspiracy theories. Not day 1.

I don't really know if kooshie just misunderstand lio, but so far, her defense against a pretty solid (for day 1) case hasn't really been good. It hasn't even been a defense against the case, but something else.

#474 - Seems a bit to me like he's coaching Kooshie, he repeatedly points out that she needs to start posting content and compares her current play to his in Buffy.

Pointing out why something looks bad is coaching now?

#481 is finally his vote on Kooshie which places him safely in the middle of the pack.

Then not much for the rest of D1.  D2...

Because town is never in the middle of a wagon?

#1116 is right after Jimmmmm was put at L-almost lynched for 1 of the 18 times that day.  To sum it up, he doesn't agree with it but says it would be an informative lynch because of everybody's views on Jimmmmm, he then gives a wishy washy hedgey opinion of him.  I believe he gives this sort of read because he knows Jimmmmm's alignment and doesn't want to give away that he knew it after the flip.

And after thinking about it I settled for Jimm probably being town. And I still think that. Sometimes you need time to think. But I guess only scum does that, since reads are always clear to townies.

#1430, he votes for mail-mi (again, middle of the pack) without reason and only after that lynch started to gain steam. 

Steam as in one vote the last day? I think there are a lot of more scummy votes on that wagon.

[Lekkit]

But you can do all of that with just about any lynch. Surely it's much better to do that with someone you think is scum than someone you think is Town. I mean yeah, it was unfortunate that we had to resort to a soft-deadline lynch on mail-mi, but there still had to be people saying he was scummy. What would make my lynch in particular informational, and whose alignments in particular would you have a better chance of deducing if I flipped Town or scum?

Because numerous people had given reasons and argued as to why you were town/scum. It's a LOT more to go on than "looks scummy".

[Lekkit]

And I might as well add that I too found out I hadn't got the right equipment to enter a red room.

[Ozle]

And I might as well add that I too found out I hadn't got the right equipment to enter a red room.

And did it specifically say 'equipment'?

[Jimmmmm]

But you can do all of that with just about any lynch. Surely it's much better to do that with someone you think is scum than someone you think is Town. I mean yeah, it was unfortunate that we had to resort to a soft-deadline lynch on mail-mi, but there still had to be people saying he was scummy. What would make my lynch in particular informational, and whose alignments in particular would you have a better chance of deducing if I flipped Town or scum?

Because numerous people had given reasons and argued as to why you were town/scum. It's a LOT more to go on than "looks scummy".

Okay, I'm looking for specifics here. People talk about informational lynches and interactions etc, but I can't seem to actually recall a slam-dunk case based on interactions. The fact is, scum are trying their hardest to seem Towny and part of that is usually being willing to give a scumread to a teammate or even bus. And even if the reads of Townies are correct more often than simple probability would suggest, it can't be that much more often. Which means a Townie thinking someone is scummy is going to be wrong more often than right. Of course I'm not saying that information and interactions isn't a thing. Of course it is. But lynching someone who you think is Town is massive and you better have a really good scum lynch in mind for future days to make it worth it. And if you're just going to be looking for scum based on who voted for the Townie, or who didn't vote for the scum, well guess what, Townies do that too.
So, I want some names.  If I'm scum, whose alignment are you convinced of? But more importantly, if I'm Town, whose alignment are you convinced of? In particular, who are you convinced is scum if I'm Town, that would make it worth it to lynch someone you have a Townread on?

[yuma]

alright here is my long awaited (and eagerly anticipated) reread on who joined the mail-mi wagon and why:

but before I do that. I found this quote from myself from early day2 that makes me absolutely sick to my stomach:

1- He had a scumread on mail-mi. While I won't give mail-mi confirmed town status, I think he is pretty close to it, because he was the other viable lynch option and I just don't see scum allowing two of their players to become the focus day1. That would just be terrible play I think. As such, mcmc had a scum read on an almost IC.

I had apparently completely forgotten about this thought of mine going into the end of day2. GAH! I am not happy with myself at over this.

But the reason that I am posting it is thus: in a game this big it becomes very easy to forget about the past. We get so caught up in the moment, in what is jumping out to us at that specific moment that we lose sight of reads we had previously that were completely legitimate. I don't know if there is a way to alleviate that, except to just caution people from doing what I did... focusing too much on something at the moment and forgetting about the past. A simple reread probably would have reminded me of this quote and would have stopped me from voting mail-mi. I don't think that would have necessarily stopped his lynch, but it might have.

[mcmcsalot]

1. People asking me to claim the item, it not like that. None of the things I could have gotten from robz were things I could have gotten in the bank. I don't even know what one of the things did.

2. Ozzle the reason I thought it would create it's was due to the nature of the items I assumed scum wouldn't have access to them. Now that I have thought more on it and how mafia works they probably could get the items even if they did nothing for them. It is also possible I was the only one visited, there was no mention of other people being visited I just assume that as well.

3. I really think we need to cross the people who were off kooshie wagon and on mail-mi wagon. That should give us a good list for scum. Find out which one of the people started the push to the mail-mi wagon instead of Jimm/insom/ozzle which we should have lynched.

[yuma]

and now back to the mail-mi wagon:

- the first vote on mail-mi is mine, it is in response to:

Don't lynch me because I have access to something that could really help town.

- ash appears to be immediately against it
- mcmc has a null read on it, calls out my vote as scummy
- jorbles say's it was bad town play, would consider him tomorrow, but not today
- ozle expresses suspicion of mail-mi but doesn't vote
- raerae also expresses suspicion of mail-mi but wants to reread before voting
- the focus moves off mail-mi, I unvote
- raerae finishes her reread and votes mail-mi
- lio says mail-mi is scummy, but that his mistake quoted above makes him a bad lynch for today
- eevee votes mail-mi, mostly based off "raerae is very good at this."
- mail-me then attracts suspicion from lio, myself and a few others because he wanted to be the hammerer
- mcmc expresses a townish read due to "bad town play" on mail-mi but says that he deserves a reread
- lio then votes mail-mi
- i express that mail-mi is a bit townier based off his voting (correction, in a later post I say that mail-mi should be lio. lio is townier based off his voting)
- lekkit comes in and says he wants to lynch mail-mi; doesn't say why, I don't remember him saying anything about mail-mi before
- archetype votes mail-mi
- ash expresses a willingness to vote mail-mi (first time I think)
- jimmm next votes for mail-mi
- lio revotes for mail-mi
- lekkit votes for mail-mi
- archetype comes back to mail-mi
- insomniac expresses a dislike to the idea of a mail-mi/kooshie scum team.
- raerae returns to mail-mi
- i come back to a mail-mi vote
- mcmc expesses suspicion of mail-mi, but is a bit hesitant to vote him
- ozle joins the mail-mi wagon
- and mail-mi hammers. GAH!

Take aways:

raerae was the biggest proponent of the mail-mi wagon only leaving it momentarily to vote for ozle
the people I am most suspicious of on the wagon are lekkit and archetype. Eevee is my most suspicious off, for his "raerae is good at this moment"

mcmc is a little suspicious, but not much.

I think the best lynch for today is lekkit or archetype. But because archetype was also off wagon day1 I think he is the best choice. Add in LALL and general scummy play once he started posting day2 and some weird stuff today, I think he is the best lynch.

[Eevee]

I think the enablers were scummier than the starters (of mail-mi wagon).

[mcmcsalot]

1. How in the world do I look suspicious from that? I felt he was towny, up until the point where he said he would self hammer I was still not comfortable with his lynch.

2. I agree arch looks scummy and think he's a good lynch. Also raerae and ash continue to be suspicious. I remember there unwillingness to lynch Jimm was very frustrating and they gave very little reasoning as to why. Then they settle on to mail-mi which was such a worse lynch I did it hard to believe they are just bad town.

[mcmcsalot]

Yea ash/Jimm/lekkit/arch/raerae all look very scummy based on the wagon. So Jimm/arch are still my favorite lynches due to off K-wagon. After that raerae is probably my best guess based on how se pushed it and diverted from Jimm.

[yuma]

1. How in the world do I look suspicious from that? I felt he was towny, up until the point where he said he would self hammer I was still not comfortable with his lynch.

sorry I intended to write jimmm, mostly because he too joined the wagon w/o reason, at least from what I saw.

[Jorbles]

I think the enablers were scummier than the starters (of mail-mi wagon).

Specifically who do you think the enablers are?

[Eevee]

I think the enablers were scummier than the starters (of mail-mi wagon).

Specifically who do you think the enablers are?

I said posted that before reading yuma's post. Generally I find enabling a mislynch scummier than being the main driver of it. Especially assuming it was done to save a scumbuddy (from the off wagon group) from being the alternative lynch.

I think ash, Archetype and Lekkit would fit the bill here.

[mcmcsalot]

1. How in the world do I look suspicious from that? I felt he was towny, up until the point where he said he would self hammer I was still not comfortable with his lynch.

sorry I intended to write jimmm, mostly because he too joined the wagon w/o reason, at least from what I saw.

Ah then we are in an agreement as to who we think are good lynch options for today. As soon as I am on my computer I will scan through the most recent Jimm/lekkit interaction to see how they look.

[Jorbles]

I think the enablers were scummier than the starters (of mail-mi wagon).

Specifically who do you think the enablers are?

I said posted that before reading yuma's post. Generally I find enabling a mislynch scummier than being the main driver of it. Especially assuming it was done to save a scumbuddy (from the off wagon group) from being the alternative lynch.

I think ash, Archetype and Lekkit would fit the bill here.

I tend to agree with that list, but I would add yuma to it. He has expressed regret for being on the mail-mi lynch, but he helped it along too, and he was off wagon on Kooshie.

[sudgy]

Wait, talking about the scum key, I tried to go into a red room last night and Robz said I didn't have enough money (I thought it was free, never saw anything saying it costs something).  He never mentioned a scum key.

[sudgy]

Oh no wait, I just PMed Robz and he said I tried to go into a faint red room, not a red room.  That makes sense.

[yuma]

sudgy (1) -- Insomniac

I can't help but notice that Insomniac is still voting for sudgy. Insomniac do you still want to be voting for sudgy?

[yuma]

actually... i hate to do this, but I am going to request a prod on insomniac. He hasn't posted in here since the 11th. and if I remember right, we have a 2 day rule, yes?

As a general rule you should aim for one post every 48 hours, minimum, to keep the game moving. Players who do not post every 48 hours will be issued at most 2 warnings. Any player who has previously been warned twice is subject to modkill per another player's request. Please inform us that you will be V/LA if you cannot post every 48 hours.

I know he has been online because he has posted in other forum games and in the dominion tournament bracket thread--nice job beating Robz!. I guess maybe he is burned out from mafia. Which I suppose is fair as he has played a lot. But I guess my question is thus: if he is so burned out, why did he sign up?

I am not trying to say that I don't want insomniac to play. I would love for him to continue to play and have thoroughly enjoyed playing with him in the past. But he isn't even coming close to holding his weight in this game and as a result it is a severe detriment to town. (All of that is assuming he is town, which isn't a great assumption. Maybe we should just lynch him?)

[Robz888]

Prod sent.

[ashersky]

Yeah, im not sharing which night.

But mine definitely said 'equipment'. And what Robz said was about the manner in which he told people , i dont think he would have given specific information out to one player and not another.

This is why I thought Ashersky had seen the same event Mcmc, otherwise it doesn't make sense to me.

Are you sure you don't want to rescind the statement Robz didn't visit you Ask?
Because otherwise it looks like Robz visited someone you have had a discussion with, possibly in a scum QT...?

Right, you were the super scummy one yesterday, too.

vote: Ozle

If you want to call me a liar, that's fine.  But I'm not.  I'd quote my PM if I was allowed.  Robz--can I quote that particular PM?  I'm guessing not.  I was traveling around, asked about the red room, was told I needed a scum key.

I have not met anyone in the Bank.  Didn't know I could, until mcmc mentioned meeting Robz.

And here's why Ozle is RIDICULOUSLY SCUMMY.  If I was scum, as he so wittily posits, WHY WOULD I NEED A SCUM KEY TO ENTER A RED ROOM?  The red rooms are the vaults where the dead people go.  The scum can choose which red room to put them in, so I must assume they can actually enter the rooms already.  My best guess is that "scum key" is something that is purchasable, just like a "gold key" or "silver key."  And even if scum can't enter the rooms, why would I, as scum, start blabbing about a scum key to everyone?  Yeesh.