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[yuma]

Funny how Jimmm is only responding to Ozle in regard to something that is not part of the scummy case while effectively ignoring everyone else... you know the stuff that actually has merit

[liopoil]

honestly, I think the ozle-Jimmmmm arguement is meaningless and a waste of time... Nothing they say in regard to "newbie scum" or whatever is going to help me get a read on either of them.

[ashersky]

FoS: Yuma

He's too good to trust, was off-wagon, and has been pushing an off-wagon lynch in a pro-town way.  He's successfully deflected any attention away from him by driving the convo.  See MnM for textbook Yuma scum.

[ashersky]

I don't think Jimmmmm will flip scum, so I won't contribute to his lynch.

I think Jorbles, mcmc, Ozle (same case on him as on Yuma), and Yuma are better lynches.  With those, even mislynches tell us more than Jimmmmm-easy-lynch.

[yuma]

FoS: Yuma

He's too good to trust, was off-wagon, and has been pushing an off-wagon lynch in a pro-town way.  He's successfully deflected any attention away from him by driving the convo.  See MnM for textbook Yuma scum.

then vote for me. But really do you think that the evidence points more greatly to me than say mcmc or Jimmmm where there are obvious interactions with Kooshie (Jimmmm being Kooshie's biggest town read, and mcmc blatantly defending the Kooshie lynch)?

Do you have any actual evidence? Or are you just saying this because your scum buddy (buddies) are under pressure?

Just because I am good at portraying town when I am scum, doesn't mean I am scum when I am town.

[yuma]

I don't think Jimmmmm will flip scum, so I won't contribute to his lynch.

I think Jorbles, mcmc, Ozle (same case on him as on Yuma), and Yuma are better lynches.  With those, even mislynches tell us more than Jimmmmm-easy-lynch.

I am not lynching anyone to find out information. I am lynching to lynch scum. What are you lynching for?

[ashersky]

FoS: Yuma

He's too good to trust, was off-wagon, and has been pushing an off-wagon lynch in a pro-town way.  He's successfully deflected any attention away from him by driving the convo.  See MnM for textbook Yuma scum.

then vote for me. But really do you think that the evidence points more greatly to me than say mcmc or Jimmmm where there are obvious interactions with Kooshie (Jimmmm being Kooshie's biggest town read, and mcmc blatantly defending the Kooshie lynch)?

Do you have any actual evidence? Or are you just saying this because your scum buddy (buddies) are under pressure?

Just because I am good at portraying town when I am scum, doesn't mean I am scum when I am town.

Ok.  vote: yuma

Reasons:

You are probably the only player on f.ds advanced enough to kill Xeiron on purpose knowing we would push a newbie scum theory based on that.

You are leading town in circles, concentric ones spiraling away from you, specifically.

You haven't been consistent on D2: the latest three or so posts before you started responding to me were back and forth on Jimmmmm, for example.

You are ignoring possible scum play from Ozle happening right before your eyes.

Note, these are all D2 reasons, because scum!yuma doesn't give clues on D1.  Most scum don't.

[sudgy]

(I know this looks scummy, oh well)

I actually agree with ashersky.  Vote: yuma

[mail-mi]

Jimmmmm has deterred my scumread off him, but yuma isn't scummy enough yet. Unvotefor now.

[Jimmmmm]

Funny how Jimmm is only responding to Ozle in regard to something that is not part of the scummy case while effectively ignoring everyone else... you know the stuff that actually has merit

What exactly is Ozle's non-"newbie scum" case on me. This is all I could find:

1. Jimm   - Scum lean for being off lynch all day

My votes on jimmmm for being off wagon, lurkiness, providing little content. All the Small Things added together really

Jimmmm - Most suscpious off wagon at the start of the Day. He 'im not newbie scum' defence was completely made up

So it's basically the lurking thing, which I've discussed and you either believe me or don't. And whatever Ozle says, even though he said he was rambling and said something was at odds with his newbie scum theory, he clearly said he was suspicious of me being newbie scum in #649 and #665:

For Jorbles

Off Wagon: mcmc, Jimmmm, Insomniac, sparky and yuma

MCMC has been quite a bit of scum lately, we all know how good Insomniac is. Yuma obvious is not new. Sparky I remmeber has been quite a bit.

Which leaves me most suspicious of Jimmm out of that bunch.

RNGs do not take into account who was scum most recently. Gambler's fallacy. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your argument though. Are you saying that because Jimmmm hasn't played scum recently he'd be the least experienced as a scum player?

Yes, maybe I wasnt clear. Out of those I think Jimm has not been as much mafia scum as them recently, so is less practiced at it. Therefore still possibly fits into my newbie scum theory. (But that line of reasoning was only so I could try to keep my 'newbie scum' theory, which didnt look so brilliant by the end of my post after I thought it through')

Here he clearly says that he came to suspicion of me because he have not been scum lately and so am less practised at it. Yes, he also admits that it's not the best theory, but that's not the point. The point is, he came to the conclusion that he should vote for me by his newbie scum theory, or at the very least it had some involvement, and then tried to paint me as scummy for responding to it.

To be clear, I'm not arguing against the newbie scum theory. I'm arguing that arguing against the newbie scum theory wasn't the slightest bit scummy.

[yuma]

FoS: Yuma

He's too good to trust, was off-wagon, and has been pushing an off-wagon lynch in a pro-town way.  He's successfully deflected any attention away from him by driving the convo.  See MnM for textbook Yuma scum.

then vote for me. But really do you think that the evidence points more greatly to me than say mcmc or Jimmmm where there are obvious interactions with Kooshie (Jimmmm being Kooshie's biggest town read, and mcmc blatantly defending the Kooshie lynch)?

Do you have any actual evidence? Or are you just saying this because your scum buddy (buddies) are under pressure?

Just because I am good at portraying town when I am scum, doesn't mean I am scum when I am town.

Ok.  vote: yuma

Reasons:

You are probably the only player on f.ds advanced enough to kill Xeiron on purpose knowing we would push a newbie scum theory based on that.

You are leading town in circles, concentric ones spiraling away from you, specifically.

You haven't been consistent on D2: the latest three or so posts before you started responding to me were back and forth on Jimmmmm, for example.

You are ignoring possible scum play from Ozle happening right before your eyes.

Note, these are all D2 reasons, because scum!yuma doesn't give clues on D1.  Most scum don't.

So let me get this right:

You are voting for me for...

1. because I have played scum well in the past (which has nothing to do with this game)

2. because you think I NK xeiron just to make people's heads spin... did you not see my quote from Robz's opening post? I still think there is a completely rational explanation as to why scum xeiron, we just don't see it yet.

3. Being inconsistent? I am not sure what you mean. If you mean am I not 100% sure Jimmmm is scum. Yes I am not sure. I think he is the best option today. But I don't know he is scum. I want him to respond and give more so I can better analyze him.

4. Ozle... what does his play have to do with me? I have said before that I am only focusing on people off wagon unless something crazy happens (ie mail-mi earlier today). Ozle hasn't done anything crazy. He might be scum, but right now he looks like he is just trying to find scum, kinda a null read for me right now.

You make no mention of any interactions between me and kooshie, because you say that scum doesn't give clues day1. Right like Galz didn't give a clue about mcmc in MXIX... there are plenty of other examples of scum giving clues. And you still didn't answer my question.

Do you think that I have a greater chance of being scum than mcmc or Jimmmmm who have obvious scummy interactions with Kooshie?

Oh and sudgy.... can you put this as your new avatar?

Thanks

[Jimmmmm]

Oh snap.

[sudgy]

Oh snap.

??

[Jimmmmm]

He just called you a sheep. With a picture and everything.

[sudgy]

Oh, that's why.  I just thought it was funny.

[Jimmmmm]

I'm just messing around, don't worry about it.

[yuma]

I'm just messing around, don't worry about it.

I wasn't. ash's case lacks everything a good case/vote should have. I don't understand how anyone could follow it with a vote unless they were blindly sheeping.

Ash's case really seems like either town!ash trying to cover all his bases as town (not wanting to get duped by scum!yuma, but there are far better ways of accomplishing that or scum!ash trying to divert a lynch from a scum buddy and onto one of the more proactive and/or, at least in my humble opinion, town leaders of this game.

[ashersky]

FoS: Yuma

He's too good to trust, was off-wagon, and has been pushing an off-wagon lynch in a pro-town way.  He's successfully deflected any attention away from him by driving the convo.  See MnM for textbook Yuma scum.

then vote for me. But really do you think that the evidence points more greatly to me than say mcmc or Jimmmm where there are obvious interactions with Kooshie (Jimmmm being Kooshie's biggest town read, and mcmc blatantly defending the Kooshie lynch)?

Do you have any actual evidence? Or are you just saying this because your scum buddy (buddies) are under pressure?

Just because I am good at portraying town when I am scum, doesn't mean I am scum when I am town.

Ok.  vote: yuma

Reasons:

You are probably the only player on f.ds advanced enough to kill Xeiron on purpose knowing we would push a newbie scum theory based on that.

You are leading town in circles, concentric ones spiraling away from you, specifically.

You haven't been consistent on D2: the latest three or so posts before you started responding to me were back and forth on Jimmmmm, for example.

You are ignoring possible scum play from Ozle happening right before your eyes.

Note, these are all D2 reasons, because scum!yuma doesn't give clues on D1.  Most scum don't.

So let me get this right:

You are voting for me for...

1. because I have played scum well in the past (which has nothing to do with this game)

2. because you think I NK xeiron just to make people's heads spin... did you not see my quote from Robz's opening post? I still think there is a completely rational explanation as to why scum xeiron, we just don't see it yet.

3. Being inconsistent? I am not sure what you mean. If you mean am I not 100% sure Jimmmm is scum. Yes I am not sure. I think he is the best option today. But I don't know he is scum. I want him to respond and give more so I can better analyze him.

4. Ozle... what does his play have to do with me? I have said before that I am only focusing on people off wagon unless something crazy happens (ie mail-mi earlier today). Ozle hasn't done anything crazy. He might be scum, but right now he looks like he is just trying to find scum, kinda a null read for me right now.

You make no mention of any interactions between me and kooshie, because you say that scum doesn't give clues day1. Right like Galz didn't give a clue about mcmc in MXIX... there are plenty of other examples of scum giving clues. And you still didn't answer my question.

Do you think that I have a greater chance of being scum than mcmc or Jimmmmm who have obvious scummy interactions with Kooshie?

A couple of issues to point out:

--On Ozle, you just proved my point.  YOU said YOU will only focus off-wagon.  Where was Ozle?  OFFFRICKINGWAGONARGH.  So you make a big show of searching off wagon but give scummish Ozle a pass.  And "intent to hammer/disappear without voting/act indignant that someone else hammered" does not make you town OR honorarily on-wagon.  It makes you scummy for setting yourself up to have an excuse to not hammer your teammate but still claim towniness points for having been willing to hammer.  So you 100% ignoring Ozle is scummy, a reason for my vote, and confirmed by you in your response.

--On previous scum experience: I think that can't be ignored.  It's how we read each other.  You read me well due to playing against scum!me and modding scum!me.  You also disagree often with town!e beliefs.  So yes, I will take into account your past play, just like you take into account mine.

--O your question: I think you are more likely to flip scum than Jimmmmm.  Probably about equal on mcmc, but raerae cleared him for now.

[ashersky]

I'm just messing around, don't worry about it.

I wasn't. ash's case lacks everything a good case/vote should have. I don't understand how anyone could follow it with a vote unless they were blindly sheeping.

Ash's case really seems like either town!ash trying to cover all his bases as town (not wanting to get duped by scum!yuma, but there are far better ways of accomplishing that or scum!ash trying to divert a lynch from a scum buddy and onto one of the more proactive and/or, at least in my humble opinion, town leaders of this game.

He was definitely sheeping.  Sheeping a good case, though, so that's okay.

[yuma]

Sorry... you are absolutely right. I have been considering ozle on wagon. At least for the past few days. I will have to address this and rethink, but it certainly does better explain your vote on me for now.

[yuma]

--O your question: I think you are more likely to flip scum than Jimmmmm.  Probably about equal on mcmc, but raerae cleared him for now.

oh right because raerae is a confirmed town IC Cop. I forgot.

[ashersky]

--O your question: I think you are more likely to flip scum than Jimmmmm.  Probably about equal on mcmc, but raerae cleared him for now.

oh right because raerae is a confirmed town IC Cop. I forgot.

You know what I mean.  It's clearly a meta thing.  I'd vote mcmc if a deadline nears and he's the likeliest to go.

[ashersky]

Sorry... you are absolutely right. I have been considering ozle on wagon. At least for the past few days. I will have to address this and rethink, but it certainly does better explain your vote on me for now.

Thanks for seeing my point here.

[sudgy]

I had been getting kind of suspicious of yuma anyway at that point.  And that was a better case than most in this game, and you said it was a horrible case.  That just confirms my vote a bit more.

[yuma]

Alright... let's take a look at Ozle now that I am actually aware that he was off-wagon.

I think he has been pretty townie because of his resitant--just as resistant as me--to map claiming. But again I think that scum players will just say what they would say as town, so that really doesn't mean anything.

I do think that Ozle is more proactive and more of a town leader than most other players in this game. He is scum hunting and asking probing questions.

His "intent to hammer" post basically came out of no where. Previous to that he had scum reads on Lekkit, eevee, insomniac and lio. Basically called a scum team at one point. But not much about Kooshie.

he does say this... criticizing Lekkit's vote on kooshie.

Lekkit says that Kooshie has not posted any thing of substance, well the same applies to you Lekkit, I dont remember anything of substance you have said this game apart from agree with Lipoli.
You may have said something, but none of it has stuck in my mind.

why he was willing to hammer kooshie

Ok, reasons why I am stating intent to the Hammer to Fall

What are our chances of catching scum Day1? Its pretty random.
Its Day 1, there are no good cases, there are no good leads, there have been no scumslips. The only person I dont want to lynch at the moment is sudgy, purely because im hoping he can get that key for town.

I dont have a town read on Kooshie, same as I pretty much dont have a town read on most people so it might as well be Kooshie.


The Kooshie case is weak, realllly weak, but its the best case we have (as no one seems to be looking at Eevee with me!) and I seriously doubt we are going to find abetter one on Day1. If this was Day2 then it would be majorly different.

Primarily, lets get this day done and then we can have longer days when we have actual information

Kooshie, if you have something to share that would help the town, now is the time.....

but then was pre-empted by xeiron... seriously guys this is why we don't do that.
[aside]Here actually is a reason that xeiron was NK. Perhaps scum knows how people get coins? And there is an incentive for players to be the hammer on a scum player and they get a bunch of coins... scum knew this---or hypothized this--and as such NK xeiron--although he would probably be a better target for pillaging... but this is getting into that sketchy area of talking about game dynamics, so I am doing to stop [/aside]

He then had his "did anyone start in a hallway" thing going on. Seems kinda townie, but also I could very much see scum Ozle trying to use this as a way to divert town and also establish some town credit. Hasn't he tried similar gambits in the past? Nothing really came from that did it?

I don't really see the "scumminess" that ashersky seems to be alluding to. Ash you were refering to jimmmm/ozle interactions right? I don't see that so much as scummy, but more as scum hunting and confusing posts/misunderstandings.

But I do see how he could be scum from his change in direction in his "intent to hammer" but I don't think that is even close to the direct relationships that have been established by Jimmm/mcmc in regard to kooshie.

And that was really what I was asking you about when I asked if you thought I was scummier than those two. And I am still surprised because those two things are huge! I mean they are direct correlations between a scum player and other players off wagon. So when you vote for me instead you are basically ignoring them and calling them non-significant, which I guess I strongly disagree with.