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[sudgy]

It seems ashersky's lynch is coming back, Vote: ashersky.

[sudgy]

@lekkit: I went into a room and saw the costs of bought items.

[Jorbles]

Okay also some more on why ashersky is scummy. Look at his day 2 lynch targets, a day when scum really didn't want to have another of their team lynched:

Ok.  vote: yuma

Reasons:

You are probably the only player on f.ds advanced enough to kill Xeiron on purpose knowing we would push a newbie scum theory based on that.

You are leading town in circles, concentric ones spiraling away from you, specifically.

You haven't been consistent on D2: the latest three or so posts before you started responding to me were back and forth on Jimmmmm, for example.

You are ignoring possible scum play from Ozle happening right before your eyes.

Note, these are all D2 reasons, because scum!yuma doesn't give clues on D1.  Most scum don't.

I think an Ozle lynch has merit.  Ozle is more likely to flip scum than Yuma, I'd say.  I mean, my case on Yuma had a lot to do with how I think he was letting scummy Ozle slide, so I should consider that Ozle should be lynched.

I'm willing to vote mcmc or Eevee now.  If they are both willing to act like Yuma hasn't been the driving force being the Jimmmmm mislynch, they are scum or willful bad towny sheep.

I think mcmc is town now, btw.  My scum read on him has evaporated as he's begun his townspeak.  I think scum!mcmc doesn't argue like this, because he doesn't want the attention.

I agree that, since Jorbles was on wagon, we can leave him out of the conversation for D2.  That leaves Ozle and yuma (along with Jimmmmm) off wagon.  And yet no one will consider Ozle/yuma, both masterminds of f.ds, as scum?  Does that not strike anyone as odd?

Want to lynch:  Ozle

Willing: Jorbles, Lekkit, mail-mi

I am 50/50 on insom actually being scum.  That puts him as less likely than Ozle to be scum.  That's the hesitation there.

@Ozle, I didn't disappear; I followed along to your responses, but there was nothing new in them, just like there's been nothing new in my case on you.  I appreciate the effort you've put into staying alive--that's the kind of effort I would put in if I was scum, too.

Quote from: Eevee on April 06, 2013, 08:32:49 am

    Quote from: sudgy on April 05, 2013, 08:09:58 pm

        Alright, it looks like one of the only valid lynches, Vote: Insomniac

    Woah? yuma and ozle (two inherently very suspicious people due to being off wagon) vote for Ins and suddenly he is one of the only viable lynches?

    If you are going to sheep, you should at least not sheep the off wagon guys. Sucks that they are the only ones posting.


I think Ozle is still viable.

Mcmc is looking scummier now.  Reminds me of scum!mcmc from the first newbie game.  Anyone for a mcmc lynch?

He states his willingness to lynch yuma, Ozle, mail-mi, Lekkit, mcmc, Eevee, myself and Insomniac. I know I am town, and I think Insomniac is town. I think that Eevee is probably town too. I know for a fact that yuma, Ozle, mail-mi, Lekkit and mcmc were town. Ashersky was trying to get lynches going on 5 players who are now confirmed town to us. He was casting votes around like candy at a parade, but on lots of players that are confirmed town and no votes on Archetype/sparky, barely even a mention of sparky in fact. This is how I think scum would play the day after one of their team mates gets lynched especially this early in the game. I think after the fact ash kinda forgot the scattershot approach he'd taken to trying to engineer a mislynch d2. Look at the way he leaps from lynch to lynch. And also look at how he barely mentions Archetype/sparky d2. I mean come on! He's so scummy.

One more post coming.

[sudgy]

Remember everybody, scum might have the Talisman.  We might even want to consider this LyLo already --

If that was so, scum might want to quickhammer now, as they could just do the same tomorrow...  If scum has the Talisman, ash is scum.  And it seems like scum might have it.  The person who has it could easily be dead though, I don't know when it was bought.

[Jorbles]

Okay so this is why I think Jimmmm is most likely his partner. The one player that ashersky will stick his neck out for and defend d2 is Jimmmm. Remember this is when ashersky seems willing to lynch 8 other players at different points in the day. I'm going to reuse some quotes because I'm going to be interpreting them while looking at ashersky's relationship with Jimmm.

The Jimmmmm wagon starts building and at first ashersky doesn't comment on it much.

Eventually here ashersky tacitly backs the Jimmmm lynch, but pushes for more time, I assume thinking the wagon would eventually derail. Here it's ashersky who proposes we wait long enough for Jimmmm to defend himself, counting on him to come up with his own defense. Before this he didn't comment much on the Jimmmm lynch which makes me think he was hoping it would go away without him having to step in. These quotes were back to back.

    What's Jimmmmm at now?  Should we just lynch?  Might be better to get to night.

    You can lynch me now, or you can lynch me tomorrow after I've had time to form reads and make people justify their vote.

    Quote from: Jimmmmm on March 27, 2013, 08:02:01 pm

        You can lynch me now, or you can lynch me tomorrow after I've had time to form reads and make people justify their vote.


    Are you good with a soft Jimmmmm lynch deadline?  Say tomorrow at 8:00 p.m. forum time?

This is actually a very good way to try and stop a lynch. It looks really towny because you're being very reasonable.

Then he tries to redirect the Jimmmm lynch to me.

Jimmmmm has until midnight tomorrow to contribute his promised reads, a deadline he himself proposed.  I say we just leave it at that.

Separately, unvote based on raerae's read, as I said I would.  Not that mcmc is free of suspicion now, but he's not D2's lynch.

I think mail-mi is just playing badly as town right now, and not intentionally as scum.

Jorbles seems scummy from recent comments, and could see a Jorbles lynch being a good one.  I don't like the "let's see if he lives through the night" comment at all, and his vote jumping with regards to Jimmmmm seems opportunistic ("oh, he was at L-2?  Gotta keep that chance going!").

vote: jorbles

Then he goes after yuma.

Then he tries to redirect the lynch off Jimmmm to anyone it'll stick to.

I don't think Jimmmmm will flip scum, so I won't contribute to his lynch.

I think Jorbles, mcmc, Ozle (same case on him as on Yuma), and Yuma are better lynches.  With those, even mislynches tell us more than Jimmmmm-easy-lynch.

Then he tries to redirect to Ozle.

    Quote from: yuma on March 29, 2013, 09:50:09 pm

        Quote from: sudgy on March 29, 2013, 09:38:18 pm

            I had been getting kind of suspicious of yuma anyway at that point.  And that was a better case than most in this game, and you said it was a horrible case.  That just confirms my vote a bit more.


        but again I ask: is this "case" more worthwhile than the obvious relationships that have been established between kooshie and mcmc/jimmm?


    I don't really see Jimmmmm and Kooshie tied like I do mcmc and her.

    Ozle has been actively scummier, where jimmmmm has be more lurky.

    Lynch pref now:

    Ozle >>> Yuma >>> Jorbles >>> mcmc

    Vote: Ozle

He even suggests no lynching over lynching Jimmmm.

We are at even parity...we could no lynch.

He again tries to derail the lynch by planting suspicion of yuma.

If jimmmmm flips town, Yuma knows we are coming after him hard for pushing a mislynch against all opposition.

Basically, jimmmmm flips town (as I think he will) and I open D3 with a Yuma vote that will not go away.

Finally he offers to hammer Jimmmm, but not seriously just to see if he can turn the wagon on yuma, and to try and convince yuma that he's town. This was when Jimmmm was at L-1.

yuma, if I hammer Jimmmmm, will it change your mind about me? 

Quote from: mail-mi on April 01, 2013, 12:21:30 am

    Ash, if I unvote, then you vote and I can has hammer? It would be my first one.


I don't want to lynch Jimmmmm; I want to see what yuma will say if I agree to lynch him against my own best judgement.

He continues to defend Jimmmm.

Mcmc, read yuma's argument with me for why Jimmmmm is townish to me.

He's not guaranteed town, by any means, just less likely to be scum than at least three other options today.  I want to lynch someone who has a better chance of flipping scum.

At this point the Jimmmm wagon begins to dissipate, but there's one more interesting post from ashersky:

Okay, just finished a re-read of D1.  Here are my thoughts:

--I had town reads early to mid D1 on yuma and Ozle.  That's funny to me, given how I feel about them now.
--I had a scum reads on Jimmmmm and mcmc all day.
--I think liopoil is town.  He started the Kooshie wagon and kept it going all day.  That isn't a scum!liopoil move.
--Insom REALLY lurked his way through D1 (and now D2).
--Eevee has not been suspected much at all, even though he contributed very little on D1.

The bolding is mine. He had a scum read on Jimmm day 1, but after Kooshie gets lynched and the town all suspects Jimmm. Now ashersky is unwilling to vote Jimmm at all? I looked and I couldn't find ashersky's defense of Jimmmm as to why he thought Jimmmm wasn't scum. It mostly seems to imply that he thinks that people going after Jimmmm are scummier than Jimmm, but he doesn't give any reason why Jimmmm wouldn't be scum. 

I think it's ashersky, and I think based on their d2 interactions I think Jimmmm is his partner.

[sudgy]

Remember everybody, scum might have the Talisman.  We might even want to consider this LyLo already --

If that was so, scum might want to quickhammer now, as they could just do the same tomorrow...  If scum has the Talisman, ash is scum.  And it seems like scum might have it.  The person who has it could easily be dead though, I don't know when it was bought.

Or they have it and Jorbles and raerae are his partners...

[sudgy]

Remember everybody, scum might have the Talisman.  We might even want to consider this LyLo already --

If that was so, scum might want to quickhammer now, as they could just do the same tomorrow...  If scum has the Talisman, ash is scum.  And it seems like scum might have it.  The person who has it could easily be dead though, I don't know when it was bought.

Or they have it and Jorbles and raerae are scum

Sorry, mistake.

[Jorbles]

I also think nothing has happened to make this case from Ozle seem bad.

I honestly dont think Jimm is the best lynch anymore. I'd still be willing to lynch him, especially if he goes back to non-content posting, but he isnt doing that now, and we have a much better candidate.


Vote: Ashersky

Summary:
Self Voting
Refuses to vote Jimm for seemingly no reason
Terrible case on me (Which is seemingly wholely down to the fact I gave out other reads while the Kooshie wagon was going on.
Terrible case on Yuma (which essentially amounts to, Ozle is scummy, you dont agree with me, therefore you must be scummy)
Spamming 'tell' posts to increase post count day 1. Which stopped when someone noticed.
Terrible Sheeping.
If we're going to lynch wrong he apparently is the best one to do. (His own words)
Vote for Sudgy out of the blue. Which seems desperation to save Jimmm (when he has nothing but a gut read on Jimm)


Detail:

vote: liopoil

Mcmc is contributing plenty but Kooshie gets your lurker tag?  They have the exact same number of posts in your quote.  Sounds like trying to form a bad case on D1.  Scum tell (really).

Defense of Kooshie.

vote: kooshie

That's 7 and L-2.  Good time for increased activity, I say.

Switches to Kooshie with NO REASON AT AT ALL (reasons came later on). This is getting on the wagon if I have ever seen it. And in one of the scummiest spots no less

Terrible scum play, that.

I think we're looking for more newbie scum.

Says we're looking for Newbie scum, then tries to build a case on Yuma and me.

vote: mcmc

2 reasons--this post is scummy (is this about sudgy or me?) and yuma's case. 

I will unvote if raerae says you are town.

Sheeps Yuma (who he has previously been saying is scummy
And then offers to unsheep Raerae

Probably means we should be looking at the lurkers.

His own words, which he then completely ignores.

Are you good with a soft Jimmmmm lynch deadline?  Say tomorrow at 8:00 p.m. forum time?

Suggests soft Jimmm deadline, doesn't stick to it.

Actually, I'm happy to leave mail-mi alive to be NKed at this point.

This one might be important later.

Jimmmmm has until midnight tomorrow to contribute his promised reads, a deadline he himself proposed.  I say we just leave it at that.

Separately, unvote based on raerae's read, as I said I would.  Not that mcmc is free of suspicion now, but he's not D2's lynch.

I think mail-mi is just playing badly as town right now, and not intentionally as scum.

Jorbles seems scummy from recent comments, and could see a Jorbles lynch being a good one.  I don't like the "let's see if he lives through the night" comment at all, and his vote jumping with regards to Jimmmmm seems opportunistic ("oh, he was at L-2?  Gotta keep that chance going!").

vote: jorbles

The proposed sheep of raerae
Confirmation of Jimmmm deadline that Ashersky doesnt stick too
Vote  for Jorbles


"Then there his interaction with Yuma calling him out as scummy because he was ignoring my scummy play (No real reference to my scummyplay)" There's a lot of quotes there, but they are just back and forth. I dont consider it scummy.

We are at even parity...we could no lynch.

Suggest No lynch.
We cannot get a concensus on Jimmmm, how on earth are we going to get a no lynch.

If jimmmmm flips town, Yuma knows we are coming after him hard for pushing a mislynch against all opposition. 

Basically, jimmmmm flips town (as I think he will) and I open D3 with a Yuma vote that will not go away.

Back to Yuma again.
Not considering other options ever is a bad move.

yuma, if I hammer Jimmmmm, will it change your mind about me?

Offer to hammer Jimmm. (Later claims not a serious offer, just trying to trick Yuma)

"Then comes the big switch from Yuma to me, been over that one already"

I could switch to sudgy, if that got going.  Insom's case on him is better than a Jimmmmm lynch.

Completely out of the blue offer to vote for Sudgy based solely on Insoms case.
Someone who has not appeared on ANY of his 'i think is scummy lists' so far!

Also, Ozle, for what it's worth, I find the lack of suspicion of Eevee by the town very odd.  I mentioned that in my re-read.  That would seem to be something you would appreciate, given you also suspect Eevee.

Interesting that the previous buddying with Eevee now becomes suspicion.
(and I do appreciate it!)
One of his big critisizms of me was I was saying Eevee was scummy while the Kooshie wagon was going on.
So when I voice suspicions, its scummy. When the rest of you dont, its suspicious!


And then we have all the recent stuff which people should be able to read for themselves.

[Jorbles]

Remember everybody, scum might have the Talisman.  We might even want to consider this LyLo already --

If that was so, scum might want to quickhammer now, as they could just do the same tomorrow...  If scum has the Talisman, ash is scum.  And it seems like scum might have it.  The person who has it could easily be dead though, I don't know when it was bought.

Or they have it and Jorbles and raerae are his partners...

If raerae or I were a scum team with the Talisman as you've described it wouldn't we already have lynched ashersky?

[Robz888]

Vote Count 5.4

ashersky (3) -- raerae, Jorbles, sudgy {L-1}
raerae (2) -- ashersky, Insomniac
Insomniac (1) -- Eevee

Not Voting (1) -- Jimm

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. There are 15 days left. Deadline is May 18th at 11:00 AM.

[sudgy]

Remember everybody, scum might have the Talisman.  We might even want to consider this LyLo already --

If that was so, scum might want to quickhammer now, as they could just do the same tomorrow...  If scum has the Talisman, ash is scum.  And it seems like scum might have it.  The person who has it could easily be dead though, I don't know when it was bought.

Or they have it and Jorbles and raerae are his partners...

If raerae or I were a scum team with the Talisman as you've described it wouldn't we already have lynched ashersky?

I don't quite know how it works, you might need to decide beforehand.  Also, that was a typo, it should have been "Or they have it and Jorbles and raerae are the mafia."  I think that's one of the least likely cases though.

[Jorbles]

Just a warning for everyone: I'm going to a bachelor party weekend that starts in about 4 hours. I'll be able to poke my head online for a little bit tomorrow morning, but aside from that I expect to be V/LA from about 4 hours from now until Sunday evening.

Anyhow I'm convinced that ashersky is scum so that's where my vote is staying. I'll poke my head in in a few hours before I head out.

[Eevee]

I'm seriously considering hammering against my yesterdays feelings, that point about the talisman is pretty good. Do we know talisman exists for sure?

[Eevee]

I DONT KNOW IM GOING BACK AND FORTH ALL THE TIME.

[Jorbles]

I'm seriously considering hammering against my yesterdays feelings, that point about the talisman is pretty good. Do we know talisman exists for sure?

sudgy said the talisman exists and I trust sudgy.

I'm very confident that ash is scum, but if you don't believe me go read his actions d2. He's clearly trying to get a mislynch through, and he's refusing to lynch Jimmmm. I admit Jimmmm seems pretty towny in comparison, but why else would ash have worked so hard to defend him, while trying really hard to get a mislynch to happen?

[Jorbles]

Anyhow sorry about this but when no one was responding originally I made plans to hang with friends now. I'll check in tomorrow, but please read ashersky closely.

[Eevee]

Anyhow sorry about this but when no one was responding originally I made plans to hang with friends now. I'll check in tomorrow, but please read ashersky closely.

I think you've said your piece.

ashersky, announcing intent to hammer. Defend yourself!

[ashersky]

Anyhow sorry about this but when no one was responding originally I made plans to hang with friends now. I'll check in tomorrow, but please read ashersky closely.

I think you've said your piece.

ashersky, announcing intent to hammer. Defend yourself!

Jorbles tried harder right now to save his partner than he's done anything ALL game.

I mean, this is what scum does when they get close to winning.  All of a sudden, long series of posts when there were none.

One of Jorbles's main arguments is that Jimmmmm is my partner.  Think about that, Eevee.

Also, scum knows if they mislynch today, they've most likely won.  It's worth it to Jorbles/raerae to go out on a limb like this.  When I flip town, they will both look horrible, but it won't matter if they can live through tomorrow.  And they'll just blame the mislynch on the victim, even though they were the ones building crappy cases.

Don't do it Eevee.  You know there is something fishy going on.

[ashersky]

Also, very convenient they both announce VLA at a crucial time.  Raerae's is in the VLA thread, which I accept as PINL.  But this is a game of social deception, and Jorbs only mentioned his departure in thread at a time where it forced urgency into a mislynch.  Scum!Jorbles could do that.

[ashersky]

Okay so this is why I think Jimmmm is most likely his partner. The one player that ashersky will stick his neck out for and defend d2 is Jimmmm. Remember this is when ashersky seems willing to lynch 8 other players at different points in the day. I'm going to reuse some quotes because I'm going to be interpreting them while looking at ashersky's relationship with Jimmm.

The Jimmmmm wagon starts building and at first ashersky doesn't comment on it much.

Eventually here ashersky tacitly backs the Jimmmm lynch, but pushes for more time, I assume thinking the wagon would eventually derail. Here it's ashersky who proposes we wait long enough for Jimmmm to defend himself, counting on him to come up with his own defense. Before this he didn't comment much on the Jimmmm lynch which makes me think he was hoping it would go away without him having to step in. These quotes were back to back.

    What's Jimmmmm at now?  Should we just lynch?  Might be better to get to night.

    You can lynch me now, or you can lynch me tomorrow after I've had time to form reads and make people justify their vote.

    Quote from: Jimmmmm on March 27, 2013, 08:02:01 pm

        You can lynch me now, or you can lynch me tomorrow after I've had time to form reads and make people justify their vote.


    Are you good with a soft Jimmmmm lynch deadline?  Say tomorrow at 8:00 p.m. forum time?

This is actually a very good way to try and stop a lynch. It looks really towny because you're being very reasonable.

Then he tries to redirect the Jimmmm lynch to me.

Jimmmmm has until midnight tomorrow to contribute his promised reads, a deadline he himself proposed.  I say we just leave it at that.

Separately, unvote based on raerae's read, as I said I would.  Not that mcmc is free of suspicion now, but he's not D2's lynch.

I think mail-mi is just playing badly as town right now, and not intentionally as scum.

Jorbles seems scummy from recent comments, and could see a Jorbles lynch being a good one.  I don't like the "let's see if he lives through the night" comment at all, and his vote jumping with regards to Jimmmmm seems opportunistic ("oh, he was at L-2?  Gotta keep that chance going!").

vote: jorbles

Then he goes after yuma.

Then he tries to redirect the lynch off Jimmmm to anyone it'll stick to.

I don't think Jimmmmm will flip scum, so I won't contribute to his lynch.

I think Jorbles, mcmc, Ozle (same case on him as on Yuma), and Yuma are better lynches.  With those, even mislynches tell us more than Jimmmmm-easy-lynch.

Then he tries to redirect to Ozle.

    Quote from: yuma on March 29, 2013, 09:50:09 pm

        Quote from: sudgy on March 29, 2013, 09:38:18 pm

            I had been getting kind of suspicious of yuma anyway at that point.  And that was a better case than most in this game, and you said it was a horrible case.  That just confirms my vote a bit more.


        but again I ask: is this "case" more worthwhile than the obvious relationships that have been established between kooshie and mcmc/jimmm?


    I don't really see Jimmmmm and Kooshie tied like I do mcmc and her.

    Ozle has been actively scummier, where jimmmmm has be more lurky.

    Lynch pref now:

    Ozle >>> Yuma >>> Jorbles >>> mcmc

    Vote: Ozle

He even suggests no lynching over lynching Jimmmm.

We are at even parity...we could no lynch.

He again tries to derail the lynch by planting suspicion of yuma.

If jimmmmm flips town, Yuma knows we are coming after him hard for pushing a mislynch against all opposition.

Basically, jimmmmm flips town (as I think he will) and I open D3 with a Yuma vote that will not go away.

Finally he offers to hammer Jimmmm, but not seriously just to see if he can turn the wagon on yuma, and to try and convince yuma that he's town. This was when Jimmmm was at L-1.

yuma, if I hammer Jimmmmm, will it change your mind about me? 

Quote from: mail-mi on April 01, 2013, 12:21:30 am

    Ash, if I unvote, then you vote and I can has hammer? It would be my first one.


I don't want to lynch Jimmmmm; I want to see what yuma will say if I agree to lynch him against my own best judgement.

He continues to defend Jimmmm.

Mcmc, read yuma's argument with me for why Jimmmmm is townish to me.

He's not guaranteed town, by any means, just less likely to be scum than at least three other options today.  I want to lynch someone who has a better chance of flipping scum.

At this point the Jimmmm wagon begins to dissipate, but there's one more interesting post from ashersky:

Okay, just finished a re-read of D1.  Here are my thoughts:

--I had town reads early to mid D1 on yuma and Ozle.  That's funny to me, given how I feel about them now.
--I had a scum reads on Jimmmmm and mcmc all day.
--I think liopoil is town.  He started the Kooshie wagon and kept it going all day.  That isn't a scum!liopoil move.
--Insom REALLY lurked his way through D1 (and now D2).
--Eevee has not been suspected much at all, even though he contributed very little on D1.

The bolding is mine. He had a scum read on Jimmm day 1, but after Kooshie gets lynched and the town all suspects Jimmm. Now ashersky is unwilling to vote Jimmm at all? I looked and I couldn't find ashersky's defense of Jimmmm as to why he thought Jimmmm wasn't scum. It mostly seems to imply that he thinks that people going after Jimmmm are scummier than Jimmm, but he doesn't give any reason why Jimmmm wouldn't be scum. 

I think it's ashersky, and I think based on their d2 interactions I think Jimmmm is his partner.

Trimming quotes on iPad sucks.  My favorite crap argument from Jorbles is the second to last para, saying he couldn't find my defense of Jimmmm.. That is an outright lie and I am calling it scummy.  How many different times did I explain my defense to everyone?  As soon as RMM7 ended and we could talk about it I did multiple times.  There are hundreds of words on the subject.

To present a lie like a fact to help support a terrible case is what scrambling scum does to save his partner.

Just terrible.

[ashersky]

Anyone who's town, think about this:

We are at the stage where a mislynch puts scum in a very strong position, and a scum lynch spells almost certain doom.

The scum team has had four nights to talk and strategize.  They aren't bussing today unless the scum lynch is very likely to happen.  They are very likely to defend their partner to force the mislynch.

Look at today's interactions.  Jorbles is trying to save raerae.  Raerae neglected to mention Jorbles once today.  I think that's fairly strong evidence, especially when you look at everyone else.

No one particularly cares if I live.  But it feels wrong in your heart to lynch me, if you are town and know me at all.  There is your hesitation Eevee.  Because you know this is town!ash.  You know scum!ash, you've been my partner before, and caught me before.

[Insomniac]

Waiting to see what Eevee says when he posts but if he doesn't hammer ash I will.

[Eevee]

scum Ash has totally fooled me too, in mafia noir.

what caught my eye about Jorbles's posts was his unnatural defense of Insomniac. cant we just lynch him? fits every possible scum pair conceivable.

i object the ash lynch

[Insomniac]

Vote: ashersky

Sorry Eevee. I think ash is scum and do not like the redirect to me. Here comes the hot seat.

[Eevee]

two scum on ash atm. lets hope we didnt lose.