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[ashersky]

Bah!!  No you didn't!  You used a quote that somebody else had posted referencing SOMETHING ELSE to "show" why I was being scummy.  You're "case" has been a sad compilation of quotes from OTHER people referring to OTHER things.  You have just collected a grab bag of quotes to form some loose argument against me.

Maybe you missed these, but here.  First time I was explaining what I saw wrong with your case:

Ash, I promised to come in with the results of a reread and you call you me scummy but didn't say why.  I post said results and you call me scummy and the best reason you can come up with is reposting something that came after I said I'd post reread results.  Is there anything I could do that you wouldn't call scummy right now?

This post isn't scummy.  There's plenty you can do that isn't scummy.

I think my point was lost in the way I decided to present it.

When you first posted that you "noticed" something about me in relation to Arch and Kooshie, I immediately got the sense that you were scum deciding to help push my mislynch through.  But I didn't want to write it right then, because it may have affected what you actually put together, so I was vague.

Then, there was the unrelated discussion of assigning re-reads, and the possible negatives of that plan.  When Jorbles made his point about forced scum reads, he hit exactly on something I had already thought about your post.  So I boldedly agreed.

Then you came in with, what seems to me, a very weak case on me.  So I pointed out what had already been said that I already agreed with.

And then a direct response to the working hard thing:

raerae's post is longer than average sure, but it's pretty short for a case. In what sense is she "working extra hard"?

By presenting contradicting quotes (but including only links, which most folks won't click) that don't actually contradict each other, for one.

Digging up miniscule quotes with little context or substance to make me look scummy.  Context is important--why did someone say something at a certain time can change the meaning of a line or word immensely.

Using personality traits and turning them into scum traits (hypocrite, etc.).

Neither of those "used a quote that somebody else had posted referencing SOMETHING ELSE to "show" why [you were] being scummy."

[Jimmmmm]

I know we've passed the soft deadline, but I think we can do better than just plonking our votes on whoever happens to have the biggest wagon. I think all this scrambling is helping. Maybe. I'll be back later to reassess and figure out where best to put my vote.

[ashersky]

I'll try to compile preferred lynch lists here (only top 3)

ashersky:  raerae, Jorbles/Insomniac
Eevee:  Insomniac, ?, ?
Insomniac:  raerae, ashersky
Jimmmmm:  Jorbles, Insomniac/raerae
Jorbles:  ?, ?, ?
raerae:  ashersky, ?, ?
sudgy:  ashersky, Insomniac, raerae

If you are voting someone, I put that person as your #1.  Otherwise, I went off recent posts.  If two people seemed tied, I used the / to denote that.

Off the table completely for D5 look like Eevee, Jimmmmm, and sudgy.  Contenders for lynch are raerae, ashersky, Insomniac, and Jorbles.

All subject to change pending more folks providing Top 3 lists.

[Eevee]

Ins, Jorbles or raerae for me, did you like not read the discussion we were having yesterday with Jimmm?

Ins, that's not a very good defense. like, objectively I cant understand why you'd be a bad lynch ever really.. I asked this twice earlier today, I don't think you ever gave an answer.

[ashersky]

I'll try to compile preferred lynch lists here (only top 3)

ashersky:  raerae, Jorbles/Insomniac
Eevee:  Insomniac, Jorbles, raerae
Insomniac:  raerae, ashersky
Jimmmmm:  Jorbles, Insomniac/raerae
Jorbles:  ?, ?, ?
raerae:  ashersky, ?, ?
sudgy:  ashersky, Insomniac, raerae

If you are voting someone, I put that person as your #1.  Otherwise, I went off recent posts.  If two people seemed tied, I used the / to denote that.

Off the table completely for D5 look like Eevee, Jimmmmm, and sudgy.  Contenders for lynch are raerae, ashersky, Insomniac, and Jorbles.

All subject to change pending more folks providing Top 3 lists.

Updated.  I knew your three, just not the order for sure.

[Eevee]

Oh that's more reasonable, considering I don't know the order exactly either. 

[ashersky]

Oh that's more reasonable, considering I don't know the order exactly either. 

Looking at the breakdown, assuming Jorbles doesn't list himself, it looks like raerae or insomniac, as they are on everyone's lists.

[Jimmmmm]

Oh that's more reasonable, considering I don't know the order exactly either. 

Looking at the breakdown, assuming Jorbles doesn't list himself, it looks like raerae or insomniac, as they are on everyone's lists.

So who's bussing?

[Eevee]

Oh that's more reasonable, considering I don't know the order exactly either. 

Looking at the breakdown, assuming Jorbles doesn't list himself, it looks like raerae or insomniac, as they are on everyone's lists.

So who's bussing?

If we knew that, we'd know who's mafia, wouldn't we?

[Jimmmmm]

Oh that's more reasonable, considering I don't know the order exactly either. 

Looking at the breakdown, assuming Jorbles doesn't list himself, it looks like raerae or insomniac, as they are on everyone's lists.

So who's bussing?

If we knew that, we'd know who's mafia, wouldn't we?

Well yeah. I guess my point was should it concern us that no one else seems to have a problem with either of those lynches?

[ashersky]

Oh that's more reasonable, considering I don't know the order exactly either. 

Looking at the breakdown, assuming Jorbles doesn't list himself, it looks like raerae or insomniac, as they are on everyone's lists.

So who's bussing?

If we knew that, we'd know who's mafia, wouldn't we?

If I absolutely had to guess, I'd say raerae is bussing Insomniac.

My reasoning there has more to do with Insomniac.  He's come in with one post all day, and it was to say he preferred raerae to me.  Nothing else whatsoever, not even a smidgen of a case to back it up.  He listed no other suspect.  That's just a stupid way to bus, if you ask me.  We're not giving him cred for it tomorrow, probably, and it's not helping his team to bus like that.

[ashersky]

Oh that's more reasonable, considering I don't know the order exactly either. 

Looking at the breakdown, assuming Jorbles doesn't list himself, it looks like raerae or insomniac, as they are on everyone's lists.

So who's bussing?

If we knew that, we'd know who's mafia, wouldn't we?

If I absolutely had to guess, I'd say raerae is bussing Insomniac.

My reasoning there has more to do with Insomniac.  He's come in with one post all day, and it was to say he preferred raerae to me.  Nothing else whatsoever, not even a smidgen of a case to back it up.  He listed no other suspect.  That's just a stupid way to bus, if you ask me.  We're not giving him cred for it tomorrow, probably, and it's not helping his team to bus like that.

Rereading that, it makes no sense.

I meant it to say that I think Insomniac voting raerae is not a bus.  Separately, I think raerae voting for Insom would be bussing.  Raerae is currently voting for me.

[Eevee]

Oh that's more reasonable, considering I don't know the order exactly either. 

Looking at the breakdown, assuming Jorbles doesn't list himself, it looks like raerae or insomniac, as they are on everyone's lists.

So who's bussing?

If we knew that, we'd know who's mafia, wouldn't we?

Well yeah. I guess my point was should it concern us that no one else seems to have a problem with either of those lynches?

You mean just like before I deflected, everyone was behind the ashersky lynch?

I do share your concern in that I too am worried that mafia will influence the decision of which of these three to lynch. I do think it's the best subset to look at though. Not convinced all the mafia are there, but I think it's our best bet.

[Eevee]

Oh that's more reasonable, considering I don't know the order exactly either. 

Looking at the breakdown, assuming Jorbles doesn't list himself, it looks like raerae or insomniac, as they are on everyone's lists.

So who's bussing?

If we knew that, we'd know who's mafia, wouldn't we?

If I absolutely had to guess, I'd say raerae is bussing Insomniac.

My reasoning there has more to do with Insomniac.  He's come in with one post all day, and it was to say he preferred raerae to me.  Nothing else whatsoever, not even a smidgen of a case to back it up.  He listed no other suspect.  That's just a stupid way to bus, if you ask me.  We're not giving him cred for it tomorrow, probably, and it's not helping his team to bus like that.

Rereading that, it makes no sense.

I meant it to say that I think Insomniac voting raerae is not a bus.  Separately, I think raerae voting for Insom would be bussing.  Raerae is currently voting for me.

That still makes no sense. It's not a one-way street, they are both on the same team or not.

[ashersky]

Oh that's more reasonable, considering I don't know the order exactly either. 

Looking at the breakdown, assuming Jorbles doesn't list himself, it looks like raerae or insomniac, as they are on everyone's lists.

So who's bussing?

If we knew that, we'd know who's mafia, wouldn't we?

If I absolutely had to guess, I'd say raerae is bussing Insomniac.

My reasoning there has more to do with Insomniac.  He's come in with one post all day, and it was to say he preferred raerae to me.  Nothing else whatsoever, not even a smidgen of a case to back it up.  He listed no other suspect.  That's just a stupid way to bus, if you ask me.  We're not giving him cred for it tomorrow, probably, and it's not helping his team to bus like that.

Rereading that, it makes no sense.

I meant it to say that I think Insomniac voting raerae is not a bus.  Separately, I think raerae voting for Insom would be bussing.  Raerae is currently voting for me.

That still makes no sense. It's not a one-way street, they are both on the same team or not.

My point is that I don't think Insomniac is bussing based on his behavior.  Raerae is voting me, so she obviously is NOT bussing.  Also, she (along with Jorbles) has yet to give a top three.

If raerae switches to Insom, it would be out of desperation, and I think she would bus there.

Given I think the remaining scum is raerae and Jorbles, I don't think anyone is bussing at this point.  It's too risky anyway.

[raerae]

Oh that's more reasonable, considering I don't know the order exactly either. 

Looking at the breakdown, assuming Jorbles doesn't list himself, it looks like raerae or insomniac, as they are on everyone's lists.

So who's bussing?

If we knew that, we'd know who's mafia, wouldn't we?

If I absolutely had to guess, I'd say raerae is bussing Insomniac.

My reasoning there has more to do with Insomniac.  He's come in with one post all day, and it was to say he preferred raerae to me.  Nothing else whatsoever, not even a smidgen of a case to back it up.  He listed no other suspect.  That's just a stupid way to bus, if you ask me.  We're not giving him cred for it tomorrow, probably, and it's not helping his team to bus like that.

Rereading that, it makes no sense.

I meant it to say that I think Insomniac voting raerae is not a bus.  Separately, I think raerae voting for Insom would be bussing.  Raerae is currently voting for me.

That still makes no sense. It's not a one-way street, they are both on the same team or not.

My point is that I don't think Insomniac is bussing based on his behavior.  Raerae is voting me, so she obviously is NOT bussing.  Also, she (along with Jorbles) has yet to give a top three.

If raerae switches to Insom, it would be out of desperation, and I think she would bus there.

Given I think the remaining scum is raerae and Jorbles, I don't think anyone is bussing at this point.  It's too risky anyway.

So, I'm confused, is Jorbles or Insom my partner?

Seriously, you guys, do not let Ash get away with this. Look at today. Look at past days. Ash has spent time throwing accusations to see what sticks and has spent zero time rereading and forming anything that remotely looks like a case. He follows whatever seems to be gain speed and is allowed to do so. Do not let this happen.

(Also, posted in v/la but unavailable the rest of the day.)

[Eevee]

Okay, we seem to have our first solid interaction. Am I wrong to think it's very likely either raerae or ashersky is mafia?

[Jimmmmm]

Okay, we seem to have our first solid interaction. Am I wrong to think it's very likely either raerae or ashersky is mafia?

I think they're unlikely to both be Mafia.

[Jorbles]

Online now, just catching up.

[Eevee]

Okay, we seem to have our first solid interaction. Am I wrong to think it's very likely either raerae or ashersky is mafia?

I think they're unlikely to both be Mafia.

I do agree, but that wasn't the question.

[Jorbles]

Okay, as much as I dislike the way Insomniac has been lurking I don't think he's scum. I'm really not comfortable with that lynch.

The more I read this game the more I think that ashersky is scum. He is definitely my top lynch. Scum could have bought the treasure map and just been sitting on the knowledge planning to claim it to make themselves look townie at a point in the game when it's so far along that it won't really be a huge advantage to give town the information especially if it decides a lynch.

My other two lynches are based on Archetype's Oracle claim. I really think, based on having played scum with him before, that he would have tried to clear one of his team mates. This means that I think that 1, but not both of Jimmmm and raerae are scum.

So looking at their interactions with ashersky today:

raerae, if on a team with ashersky, has bused him hard. If they were on a team together this would mean she is trying to solo it. This is I guess possible. I could see raerae doing that, but it doesn't seem likely.

Jimmm today hasn't really engaged with ashersky, or at least not in any meaningful ways and certainly no disagreement. This is how I imagine scum would play it if their partner was on the line. Anyhow ash is my preferred lynch. So vote: ashersky.

@Eevee, I am very concerned that you are getting your vote heavily influenced by my top two scum reads.

I think I've made it clear who my top pair is, but I'll do the pairs list thing in a second.

[Jorbles]

Okay discounting myself and sudgy as being completely impossible and then substracting people whose interactions I think make it impossible for them to be on a team together I am left with the following, I've ordered them from most likely scum pairings to least likely ones.

Most likely:
ashersky - Jimmmmm

Less likely, but plausible:
ashersky - Eevee
Eevee - Jimmmmm
Eevee - raerae

Unlikely, but not outside the realm of possibility:
ashersky - raerae
Insomniac - Jimmmmm
Insomniac - raerae

[Eevee]

Why couldnt Insomniac be scum? You suspect me more than him?

Jimm is the towniest of you lot to me, but I am worried scum will lead me to pick wrong out of you three.

[Jorbles]

Why couldnt Insomniac be scum?

On Insomniac:
I think scum would keep him in the game precisely because he's been lurky. He's someone they can always try to divert our attention to when they get in trouble. I think they are doing that right now. On top of that Insomniac's most memorable (in my mind) contribution to the game has been his suspicion of ash (who I am more and more confident is scum). This makes me think it unlikely that he'd be busing his partner this much. I think it's more likely that his lurking is a tell that he's town, a town player who is a little disinterested and burned out on mafia. If he were scum he'd be around more. I know we like to think that Insomniac is really smart and just taking advantage of his meta, but I think it's more likely that he is what he seems to be.

... You suspect me more than him?

I don't really think you're scum, but I'm saying it's possible. You're talented enough to have me fooled so I'm trying to keep my eyes open there. I don't think raerae could be partners with Jimmmm, and I think it's unlikely she's partners with ashersky. I could see you being partners with ashersky, your actions certainly haven't ruled it out, you went along with Insomniac pretty quickly, which could be a scum tell. I don't think Insomniac is scum, and definitely don't think he's scum with ashersky who I'm most confident is scum.

[Jorbles]

More on why ashersky and Insomniac couldn't be on a team together. Sorry about the lack of links I'm copying them in from a Print screen.

This is basically his first contribution to the game. Do you think his scum buddy would call him out immediately for his weird tactic? I don't, I think he would have talked him out of it before the day even started.

Vote: Ashersky

Making sure you say something is an X-Tell in every post is not the way I've ever seen you play town.

And this, after ash places a scummy vote on Insomniac when it's clear he's lurking Insomniac reiterates his position saying ash is scummy.

Re: Insom votes. I'm actually a bit torn on this one. I 100% like Ozle's vote. That one is legit. Ash and sudgy just posted a vote for me without backing it up because I was an easy vote at the time. Now here's my issue. I already found ash scummy. But sudgy? That guy decided to defend his vote on me after the fact which is way more scummy than I feel about ash right now so I will be putting my vote there for now. Vote: sudgy

On day 3 Insomniac said he found ashersky's suspicion to be only below sudgy, this is right before we cleared sudgy:

sudgy > Eevee/Jorbles/ashersky > Lekkit/raerae > Jimm/Ozle/Archetype > mcmcsalot/yuma >>>>> Insomniac

I can't vote for sudgy. You can bet on me placing a Vote: ashersky though. (I could be convinced to vote for anyone today other than mcmcsalot yuma, but prefer, Eevee/Jorbles/Ash/Sudgy)

Quote from: yuma on April 18, 2013, 06:51:14 pm

    I will ask what separates ash from eevee/jorbles?


Ash is seperated from Eevee/Jorbles in that I had a scummy read on ash from his day 1 Eevee Tell, Scum Tell, town Tell, etc attitude. The other 2 are fairly scummy to though, just ash had done something I actually thought was scummy as opposed to being lurky undercontributers (like myself)

Anyhow I think that's enough, but that's why I think it's impossible Insomniac is on a team with ashersky, and I think it really unlikely that Insomniac is scum because I think it's really likely that ashersky is scum. I've been suspicious of Insomniac earlier in the game for lurking, but the fact that he's still alive is making me think scum are just leaving him alive for a potential mislynch.