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Author Topic: Mafia XXII: Bankers Beware -- GAME OVER, SCUM WIN  (Read 224137 times)

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mcmcsalot

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Re: Mafia XXII: Bankers Beware (Day 3)
« Reply #1825 on: April 19, 2013, 01:35:26 pm »

I could vote for arch, I do think hes scummy, I'll reread now. I just think if he flips town we get nothing and are kinda screwed.
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sudgy

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Re: Mafia XXII: Bankers Beware (Day 3)
« Reply #1826 on: April 19, 2013, 01:44:45 pm »

I already did post a scummy list.

Sorry guys, been relatively busy.

Anyway, my scummy-ish reads are Lekkit, yuma, and Archetype.  Raerae, for lurking, is in between scummy-ish and null.  Can't think of anybody I have a big town read on.

The only one that it seems like other people will lynch is Vote: Archetype however.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

yuma

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Re: Mafia XXII: Bankers Beware (Day 3)
« Reply #1827 on: April 19, 2013, 01:52:33 pm »

As a reminder:

here is the case on Archetype that I made Wednesday, and I would like to point out that archetype has not responded to it in any way at all since that time.

Alright, the case on Archetype:

the sparky era:
37 posts
 - first 11 posts are all RVS and theory talk (fair enough, it is early).
 - calls ashersky's style annoying, says I am hard to read, calls out insomniac for not posting much
 - 6 more theory/fluff posts
 - would vote insomniac, but hesitant because he has so many votes, at that point he had 4.
 - calls out kooshie for a scum slip; first time mentioning kooshie, says the case is worth a reread (at this point kooshie is at 4 votes I think (note that here is the time when I mention that scum would and should at least note a scum partner. The wagon is growing, they need to either start to defend or getting in line to buss if it comes to that... this is exactly what sparky was doing. And exactly what I didn't do at the same time, because I wasn't worried about a scummate!)
 - asks kooshie some questions, more suspicious
 - puts support behind lynch, still doesn't vote
 - asks mcmc for his thoughts on mail-mi, expresses a scum read, perhaps considering getting an alternate wagon going to deflect from kooshie?
 - eevee calls out kooshie for being scummy saying, "sparky's general attitude towards the impending kooshie lynch seem scummy to me. Looks like he is looking for a safe way to get this lynch through."
 - sparky responds saying he wouldn't put someone to L-1 w/o a consensus. This screams to me of scum trying to play it safe; being willing to join in on a buss, but not wanting to do so.
 - says it is because he learned to be cautious from playing scum a lot.
day2:
 - inclined to look on wagon for bussers
 - says xeiron swiped his vote
 - townie read on lio
 - scummy read on insmoniac, reiterates his reason for not putting kooshie to l-1.
 - some more talk about the kooshie wagon and insomniac
 - says he can be easily frustrated as scum

The archetype era:
18 posts:
day 2:
 - first four posts are promising a reread, (fair he is just coming in and that day2 was starting to get dense)
 - big points from his reread are: map claim is bad (theory), town reads on (ash, raerae, Ozle) scum reads on (jimmm, jorbles and mail-mi). But his reasons are... flawed. his reason for ash is "not sure why." go see for yourselves, after a reread, he doesn't give much.
 - quotes cases on jimmmm "saying" This, but then says he isn't sold on the Jimmmm case
 - explains why he has a scum read on Jimmm further and explains some things that he said incorrectly
 - backs off his scum read on Jimmm pretty significantly, ends up voting for mail-mi for basically being "sheepy"
 - again talking about mail-mi, but doesn't really say why
 - talks about a soft deadline
 - reverts back to a Jimmm vote, again quite a change from where he was previously
 - calls hedging a scum tell (lio)
 - back to mail-mi again, says we should analyze jimmm today (has archetype done that... I am going to guess no...)
 - end of day interaction with mail-mi

Day3
 - opens up with a ? Lekkit vote? I am pretty sure that came out of no where. He had never mentioned Lekkit before. But! in the post above Jorbles posts a vote for archetype, within it is a list of scumminess that Jorbles makes that says "raerae, Insomniac, Archetype and especially Lekkit... especially Lekkit. Made an unacceptably small contribution to discussion yesterday. d2 was really long and they made 7 posts or less. That combined with my previous wagon analysis makes me vote: Archetype." So archetype see this vote on him, goes AH! reads that Jorbles has a scum read on Lekkit, and decides to deflect. Also says that Jorbles and Lekkit are his prefered lynches for today. What happened to Jimmm, Archetype?
 - I post a case on him on how I think the above is deflecting. He never responds.
 - says he is VLA. Something I didn't know about, but I'll take his word for it.

In summary:
 - heavy lurker. Definitely toward the bottom in terms of both posts and content.
 - easily could have been setting up a potential buss day1 on kooshie, but was too hesitant.
 - reacted to the beginning of a wagon on a scumbuddy exactly how I would expect scum to react.
 - reads that looked very artificial,
 - changing reads on jimmm, not following through on jimmmm today
 - his deflection vote on lekkit that came out of no where.

add in his non-participation today (some of it was V/LA yes) and his inability to respond to the case above.
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yuma

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Re: Mafia XXII: Bankers Beware (Day 3)
« Reply #1828 on: April 19, 2013, 02:11:31 pm »

Vote Count 3.6

Archetype (1) -- yuma
Lekkit (3) -- Archetype, sudgy, raerae
Ozle (1) -- ashersky
yuma (2) -- Eevee, Jorbles
ashersky (2) -- Insomniac, Lekkit
Jimm (1) -- mcmcsalot

Not Voting (2) -- Ozle, Jimm

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. There are 17 days remaining. Deadline is May 6 at 7:00 PM.


Soft deadline has come and gone. FOS: Jimmm (not for not being online during the soft deadline, I mean Australia does have a different schedule than most of us) but for not voting before the soft deadline! I mean, come on man, at least try to get a lynch through. You want today to turn into yesterday? I don't know... maybe you do.
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Re: Mafia XXII: Bankers Beware (Day 3)
« Reply #1829 on: April 19, 2013, 02:12:20 pm »

Why no FoS at Ozle?
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

yuma

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Re: Mafia XXII: Bankers Beware (Day 3)
« Reply #1830 on: April 19, 2013, 02:14:23 pm »

Why no FoS at Ozle?

well he is on announced VLA... and leaving a vote on someone while VLA is debatable. I think in some situations it is bad to leave a vote on someone while VLA, but in others it is good. So kinda a hard thing to call out.

I mean I can't FOS him for going to Barcelona...
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sudgy

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Re: Mafia XXII: Bankers Beware (Day 3)
« Reply #1831 on: April 19, 2013, 02:16:46 pm »

Sorry, I forgot he was V/LA.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

yuma

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Re: Mafia XXII: Bankers Beware (Day 3)
« Reply #1832 on: April 19, 2013, 03:15:41 pm »

GAH!

Fine. whatever. Someone else can try and instill a soft deadline and motivate this town to do something, because I am obviously not doing it very well, so I'll stop trying.
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Re: Mafia XXII: Bankers Beware (Day 3)
« Reply #1833 on: April 19, 2013, 06:07:14 pm »

Can I nominate this game as "The Most Pathetic Performance By A Town" category for the 2013 mafia awards?

I am not sure what is more annoying, the fact that so few people tried to meet the soft deadline or that no one seems to care that we didn't.
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Jorbles

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Re: Mafia XXII: Bankers Beware (Day 3)
« Reply #1834 on: April 19, 2013, 06:36:16 pm »

Can I nominate this game as "The Most Pathetic Performance By A Town" category for the 2013 mafia awards?

I am not sure what is more annoying, the fact that so few people tried to meet the soft deadline or that no one seems to care that we didn't.

It sucks, but I don't see what else we can do. We seem to have had enough people online to lynch someone as a group (though only just), but people aren't willing to form an agreement on anyone. I'm hoping that we can get people to list off their scummy to towny lists and we can use that to make some sort of consensus. If you've got a better idea I'm all ears.
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ashersky

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Re: Mafia XXII: Bankers Beware (Day 3)
« Reply #1835 on: April 19, 2013, 06:40:39 pm »

well I am here now... sorry my bus was a little bit delayed.

EPIC SCUM SLIP!
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Re: Mafia XXII: Bankers Beware (Day 3)
« Reply #1836 on: April 19, 2013, 06:41:38 pm »

Can I nominate this game as "The Most Pathetic Performance By A Town" category for the 2013 mafia awards?

I am not sure what is more annoying, the fact that so few people tried to meet the soft deadline or that no one seems to care that we didn't.

Mcmc, I was going to write a response to your comments on me, which were fair, but then yuma summed it up here.
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Re: Mafia XXII: Bankers Beware (Day 3)
« Reply #1837 on: April 19, 2013, 06:42:38 pm »

What's Arch at now?  L-2?  It might be EveryoneSheepYumaTime.  And then we all smack ourselves in the forehead when yuma wins the game as scum.
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Re: Mafia XXII: Bankers Beware (Day 3)
« Reply #1838 on: April 19, 2013, 06:44:46 pm »

Jorbles: good response to my case on you.  I mean, you've set the right townie tone in your posts--that's your biggest strength when you play mafia.  You never sound scummy.  I get the schedule thing, too.  Regardless of my case, you clearly aren't the lynch today anyway, and you aren't my preferred lynch.

I guess no one else is going to vote Ozle?
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mcmcsalot

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Re: Mafia XXII: Bankers Beware (Day 3)
« Reply #1839 on: April 19, 2013, 06:50:12 pm »

Jorbles: good response to my case on you.  I mean, you've set the right townie tone in your posts--that's your biggest strength when you play mafia.  You never sound scummy.  I get the schedule thing, too.  Regardless of my case, you clearly aren't the lynch today anyway, and you aren't my preferred lynch.

I guess no one else is going to vote Ozle?

Okay, I'm willing to sheep Yuma and vote for arch, I think he's got a good chance of being scum and noone picked up my suspicions of raerae, and noone wants to lynch Jimm. So I'm cool voting arch or ozzle if that wagon gets steam. I was okay with that lynch at one point.

Warning I am going to have to be a bit passive as this game goes, so much happening while I'm Vla I can only help by sheeping and wagon joining based on my reads I've had so far. So no voting for arch or ozzle now but I can and will if the wagon is viable.
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sudgy

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Re: Mafia XXII: Bankers Beware (Day 3)
« Reply #1840 on: April 19, 2013, 06:51:07 pm »

well I am here now... sorry my bus was a little bit delayed.

EPIC SCUM SLIP!

I thought that too.

On the deadline, It isn't nice that we didn't meet it.  Who here isn't participating?

PPE: @Jorbles: I would be okay with raerae, but that isn't happening and I would rather lynch someone else.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

Jorbles

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Re: Mafia XXII: Bankers Beware (Day 3)
« Reply #1841 on: April 19, 2013, 07:09:09 pm »

Jorbles: good response to my case on you.  I mean, you've set the right townie tone in your posts--that's your biggest strength when you play mafia.  You never sound scummy.  I get the schedule thing, too.  Regardless of my case, you clearly aren't the lynch today anyway, and you aren't my preferred lynch.

I guess no one else is going to vote Ozle?

It sounds like you don't really believe me, but oh well. One does what one can.

I wasn't planning to vote for Ozle, but I would vote for Jimmmmm if anyone besides mcmc were into it. Aside from that, we lynching Archetype now?
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Re: Mafia XXII: Bankers Beware (Day 3)
« Reply #1842 on: April 19, 2013, 07:22:53 pm »

As a reminder:

here is the case on Archetype that I made Wednesday, and I would like to point out that archetype has not responded to it in any way at all since that time.

Alright, the case on Archetype:

the sparky era:
37 posts
 - first 11 posts are all RVS and theory talk (fair enough, it is early).
 - calls ashersky's style annoying, says I am hard to read, calls out insomniac for not posting much
 - 6 more theory/fluff posts
 - would vote insomniac, but hesitant because he has so many votes, at that point he had 4.
 - calls out kooshie for a scum slip; first time mentioning kooshie, says the case is worth a reread (at this point kooshie is at 4 votes I think (note that here is the time when I mention that scum would and should at least note a scum partner. The wagon is growing, they need to either start to defend or getting in line to buss if it comes to that... this is exactly what sparky was doing. And exactly what I didn't do at the same time, because I wasn't worried about a scummate!)
 - asks kooshie some questions, more suspicious
 - puts support behind lynch, still doesn't vote
 - asks mcmc for his thoughts on mail-mi, expresses a scum read, perhaps considering getting an alternate wagon going to deflect from kooshie?
 - eevee calls out kooshie for being scummy saying, "sparky's general attitude towards the impending kooshie lynch seem scummy to me. Looks like he is looking for a safe way to get this lynch through."
 - sparky responds saying he wouldn't put someone to L-1 w/o a consensus. This screams to me of scum trying to play it safe; being willing to join in on a buss, but not wanting to do so.
 - says it is because he learned to be cautious from playing scum a lot.
day2:
 - inclined to look on wagon for bussers
 - says xeiron swiped his vote
 - townie read on lio
 - scummy read on insmoniac, reiterates his reason for not putting kooshie to l-1.
 - some more talk about the kooshie wagon and insomniac
 - says he can be easily frustrated as scum

The archetype era:
18 posts:
day 2:
 - first four posts are promising a reread, (fair he is just coming in and that day2 was starting to get dense)
 - big points from his reread are: map claim is bad (theory), town reads on (ash, raerae, Ozle) scum reads on (jimmm, jorbles and mail-mi). But his reasons are... flawed. his reason for ash is "not sure why." go see for yourselves, after a reread, he doesn't give much.
 - quotes cases on jimmmm "saying" This, but then says he isn't sold on the Jimmmm case
 - explains why he has a scum read on Jimmm further and explains some things that he said incorrectly
 - backs off his scum read on Jimmm pretty significantly, ends up voting for mail-mi for basically being "sheepy"
 - again talking about mail-mi, but doesn't really say why
 - talks about a soft deadline
 - reverts back to a Jimmm vote, again quite a change from where he was previously
 - calls hedging a scum tell (lio)
 - back to mail-mi again, says we should analyze jimmm today (has archetype done that... I am going to guess no...)
 - end of day interaction with mail-mi

Day3
 - opens up with a ? Lekkit vote? I am pretty sure that came out of no where. He had never mentioned Lekkit before. But! in the post above Jorbles posts a vote for archetype, within it is a list of scumminess that Jorbles makes that says "raerae, Insomniac, Archetype and especially Lekkit... especially Lekkit. Made an unacceptably small contribution to discussion yesterday. d2 was really long and they made 7 posts or less. That combined with my previous wagon analysis makes me vote: Archetype." So archetype see this vote on him, goes AH! reads that Jorbles has a scum read on Lekkit, and decides to deflect. Also says that Jorbles and Lekkit are his prefered lynches for today. What happened to Jimmm, Archetype?
 - I post a case on him on how I think the above is deflecting. He never responds.
 - says he is VLA. Something I didn't know about, but I'll take his word for it.

In summary:
 - heavy lurker. Definitely toward the bottom in terms of both posts and content.
 - easily could have been setting up a potential buss day1 on kooshie, but was too hesitant.
 - reacted to the beginning of a wagon on a scumbuddy exactly how I would expect scum to react.
 - reads that looked very artificial,
 - changing reads on jimmm, not following through on jimmmm today
 - his deflection vote on lekkit that came out of no where.

add in his non-participation today (some of it was V/LA yes) and his inability to respond to the case above.
I can't really explain the sparky part because I'm not him, but I can talk about some things in you 'in summary' section:

Generally I do lurk, yes. I'm not going to try and spin this to a lurking Arch=town!Arch debate, because that's not true. I lurk as both town and scum. You've played enough games with me, Yuma, and you know my meta so I'm wondering why this is new to you.

I don't really care if you think my reads are artificial. They're my reads that I choose to share with people, no matter how translucent they may appear at a glance.

The Lekkit vote wasn't strictly deflecting. I did a brief reread on him when it was night and found him VERY scummy, so that's why I opened with a vote on him. I would have elaborated more then, but I had just started my V/LA.

Overall, I don't mind too much if you lynch me (just don't quick hammer), but be wary of Yuma leading Town. That guy is a master scum player.
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Re: Mafia XXII: Bankers Beware (Day 3)
« Reply #1843 on: April 19, 2013, 07:48:22 pm »

Overall, I don't mind too much if you lynch me (just don't quick hammer), but be wary of Yuma leading Town. That guy is a master scum player.

On this point, which gets brought up a lot in regard to yuma: I'd suggest rereading parts of games where yuma was confirmed town by the end (i.e., he was lynched or nightkilled and flipped town).  Does true town!yuma seem like the yuma we have here?  Or is he the supertownyscumyuma from MnM again?
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Re: Mafia XXII: Bankers Beware (Day 3)
« Reply #1844 on: April 19, 2013, 08:06:48 pm »

Hey sorry, I've been pretty busy for the past 24 hours and didn't realise the deadline was upon us. Give me a minute.
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Re: Mafia XXII: Bankers Beware (Day 3)
« Reply #1845 on: April 19, 2013, 08:13:05 pm »

Hey sorry, I've been pretty busy for the past 24 hours and didn't realise the deadline was upon us. Give me a minute.

Lies!  No one is busy on a Friday in Mel!
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Re: Mafia XXII: Bankers Beware (Day 3)
« Reply #1846 on: April 19, 2013, 08:14:59 pm »

I think Vote: Lekkit seems best to me.
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Re: Mafia XXII: Bankers Beware (Day 3)
« Reply #1847 on: April 19, 2013, 09:07:56 pm »

So does that put him at L-2?  Working on an Arch reread right now.
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Re: Mafia XXII: Bankers Beware (Day 3)
« Reply #1848 on: April 19, 2013, 09:16:21 pm »

so at this point--people are here and talking! Yay!--I am concerned that archetype may be town and that mafia is seeing the possibility of mislynching him today and then pinning the blame on me and mislynching me tomorrow.

What especially makes me wary is that people are unvoting me after I offered a not very compelling defense (I mean it was completely meta based and really not what I would call a stirring defense)

However, I do not think it is enough of a possibility for me to unvote. Mostly because I believe archetype is scum. I really do. At least I think I really do, and at this point in the game that has to be good enough for me.

I mean, really... maybe everyone should answer this question:

If archetype flips town, how likely are you to vote for me tomorrow?  If Archetype flips scum this question is somewhat moot, and I expect him to flip scum, although I think the answers even if that comes to be would be useful to know.
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Re: Mafia XXII: Bankers Beware (Day 3)
« Reply #1849 on: April 19, 2013, 09:17:26 pm »

Overall, I don't mind too much if you lynch me (just don't quick hammer), but be wary of Yuma leading Town. That guy is a master scum player.

On this point, which gets brought up a lot in regard to yuma: I'd suggest rereading parts of games where yuma was confirmed town by the end (i.e., he was lynched or nightkilled and flipped town).  Does true town!yuma seem like the yuma we have here?  Or is he the supertownyscumyuma from MnM again?

If I can say something... I think this game I most resemble yuma from MXV and MXI. MXV is certainly the more readable game of the two.
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