Win Condition: You win when the majority of players alive are Mafia-aligned or nothing can stop that from occurring.
Win Condition: You win when all Mafia-aligned players have been eliminated.
- The members of one faction will be unknown to the other. Each will flip as Mafia-aligned, be given their own factional QT, and have their own factional half-kill done by "Attacking" another player.
- Just like a normal night kill, each night, in addition to whatever other roles a Mafia member possesses, one member of each faction may target a player to “Attack”. When a player has been attacked once by each faction, they will die.
- Players will not be notified when they've been attacked and the attack status rolls over from night to night.
- Attacks from one faction can affect members of the other faction, but a Mafia member is immune to their specific faction's attack.
- When one Mafia faction has been eliminated, someone dies by being attacked twice by one faction instead of once by each faction.
I don't think I have played in a multi-ball game since Toy Story, which was my first game here.
And- The members of one faction will be unknown to the other. Each will flip as Mafia-aligned, be given their own factional QT, and have their own factional half-kill done by "Attacking" another player.
- Just like a normal night kill, each night, in addition to whatever other roles a Mafia member possesses, one member of each faction may target a player to “Attack”. When a player has been attacked once by each faction, they will die.
- Players will not be notified when they've been attacked and the attack status rolls over from night to night.
- Attacks from one faction can affect members of the other faction, but a Mafia member is immune to their specific faction's attack.
- When one Mafia faction has been eliminated, someone dies by being attacked twice by one faction instead of once by each faction.
So faction A has a qt together and Faction B has a qt together. Or is it Member 1 of Faction A has a qt with Member 1 of Faction B and then Member 2 of either faction cannot communicate with their partner? And every single member of the mafia attacks, but it takes 2 attacks to kill a person?
This is correct.I don't think I have played in a multi-ball game since Toy Story, which was my first game here.
And- The members of one faction will be unknown to the other. Each will flip as Mafia-aligned, be given their own factional QT, and have their own factional half-kill done by "Attacking" another player.
- Just like a normal night kill, each night, in addition to whatever other roles a Mafia member possesses, one member of each faction may target a player to “Attack”. When a player has been attacked once by each faction, they will die.
- Players will not be notified when they've been attacked and the attack status rolls over from night to night.
- Attacks from one faction can affect members of the other faction, but a Mafia member is immune to their specific faction's attack.
- When one Mafia faction has been eliminated, someone dies by being attacked twice by one faction instead of once by each faction.
So faction A has a qt together and Faction B has a qt together. Or is it Member 1 of Faction A has a qt with Member 1 of Faction B and then Member 2 of either faction cannot communicate with their partner? And every single member of the mafia attacks, but it takes 2 attacks to kill a person?
I don't think it's actually multi-ball -- my understanding is that mafia is mafia, just split into two.
I mean, they can't kill each other unless they shoot themselves. So I think mafia wins together, they just are split into two teams that can't talk to each other.
...Why does this need to know the capabilities of the forum?I'll tell you afterwards!
/in. I've finally decided to sign up for an RMM game ;)
Hmm.
Ah fine. I'll /inWell this game isn't starting for a while, I think.
I may not be terribly active for the first week or so though.
Yeah, except it seems like Blarnia is going to end very soon though. So it seemed like this might start within a week. Could be later though, I'm not sure.Ah fine. I'll /inWell this game isn't starting for a while, I think.
I may not be terribly active for the first week or so though.
Awesome! I'm glad this filled up so quickly. :)Yay. The three traditional pre-game pastimes :P
Game won't start for a while, but feel free to tag/talk/make fun of ichi.
Game won't start for a while, but feel free to tag/talk/make fun of ichi.
/sendmemypmcat
Simultaneously, if possible.Game won't start for a while, but feel free to tag/talk/make fun of ichi.
Does it have to be in that order?
Ok. Now's the time for a god to be lowered by a crane and come to my aid!
Dune is done. /sendmemypmcat
Question: will which faction mafia members were a member of be included in the flip?No. They will all flip "Mafia-aligned".
Vote: Joseph because I was going to post first but then you posted first before I did.Vote: Awaclus, Futuramafia was good.
Also vote: silverspawn because of Futuramafia.
Explaining RVS votes is scummy!
Explaining RVS votes is scummy!
Sorry, I'm really, really feeling those endorphins, went to my favorite Mexican restaurant and the manager picked up the check because I eat there so often they just wanted to let me know they appreciate my business.Nice!
vote: IGOh. I love you too.
Voting for me is scummy.Not if you're scum.
Let's get this wagon rolling.
vote: WW
Voting for me is scummy.Not if you're scum.
If you aren't Ergo, who is?
Vote: e. Don't think I've been in Mafia game with you before.
Also, mass claim? We always say "man, one time we really need to just massclaim a closed RMM setup..." but we never do it.
I think the biggest result of a massclaim would be scum having a better idea of who the other team is. So, not a fan.
Every player will be given some sort of simple power role.
- These roles are generally independent of alignment and are modified versions of existing roles or unique roles entirely.
I'm a therapist. I can mess with stuff, but can't kill Mafia.
I'm a therapist. I can mess with stuff, but can't kill Mafia.
I'm not sure how this claim is a bad one, given it doesn't make any sense.
So I don't have an issue with it, and ADK's issue with it seems contrived.
vote: ADK
I'm a therapist. I can mess with stuff, but can't kill Mafia.
I'm not sure how this claim is a bad one, given it doesn't make any sense.
So I don't have an issue with it, and ADK's issue with it seems contrived.
vote: ADK
Doesn't give any information, sure, but doesn't make any sense? Do you not believe that that's XP's role?
I'm a therapist. I can mess with stuff, but can't kill Mafia.
I don't really know how useful or useless the massclaim is (not implying anything, I really just don't have any idea). I'm fine with doing it, fine with not doing it as well.
Just read the setup; looks like my claim was less useful than I thought it would be. Do you (pl.) think we should fullckaim?
vote: massclaim
Vote: No Massclaim. It potentially helps mafia work out who the other faction are.
Vote: No Massclaim. It potentially helps mafia work out who the other faction are.
I don't believe that this is the case.
Setup claims powers were handed out independently of alignment... I assume we can infer "except where appropriate".Ok, that changes things.
Vote: Massclaim. Can't hurt town.Vote: No Massclaim. It potentially helps mafia work out who the other faction are.
vote: no massclaim. I think my power is probably more useful if it gets revealed naturally, rather than me claiming it D1.
Actually Awaclus said he didn't care, so we need only one more for massclaim to get a majority. Then we can push everyone who refuses to participate to L-1 to get them to claim. It'll be fun!Eh. I'm considering changing my stance on massclaiming. Scum might have anti-town or obviously scum PR's and will have to make something up--which might incriminate them. My power is...strange and I would actually appreciate input on how to use it to the best advantage.
Actually Awaclus said he didn't care, so we need only one more for massclaim to get a majority. Then we can push everyone who refuses to participate to L-1 to get them to claim. It'll be fun!Eh. I'm considering changing my stance on massclaiming. Scum might have anti-town or obviously scum PR's and will have to make something up--which might incriminate them. My power is...strange and I would actually appreciate input on how to use it to the best advantage.
Yeah. So actually put me down as vote: massclaim although I'm normally against this sort of thing.
I can change my mind whenever I like.
And no, the massclaim could out important town PR's to scum--and also help scum figure out each other's teams. And I by no means think opposing it is necessarily scummy--though moreso now given what I said in my last post.
Should I just claim now?
kk.
I am the Town Blackmailer. And my power is kind of different. It basically revolves around me picking one person to target--and then naming several other people and if any of those people I name gets lynched, my target is protected from attacks for the following night.
This isn't a very serious vote though - I think I can use it to good effect if you survive for a few days, so I think it's worth keeping around in case I'm wrong.Um. This is super confusing to me.
unvote
When did I say that? I claimed cause I wanted to. Not because of any pressure. Plus, my ability isn't like super useful and could be helped by coordination of town to decide who to lynch.kk.
I am the Town Blackmailer. And my power is kind of different. It basically revolves around me picking one person to target--and then naming several other people and if any of those people I name gets lynched, my target is protected from attacks for the following night.
Why do you think it would be better if this had come out naturally?
This isn't a very serious vote though - I think I can use it to good effect if you survive for a few days, so I think it's worth keeping around in case I'm wrong.Um. This is super confusing to me.
unvote
Why do you think it would be better if this had come out naturally?When did I say that? I claimed cause I wanted to. Not because of any pressure. Plus, my ability isn't like super useful and could be helped by coordination of town to decide who to lynch.
This isn't a very serious vote though - I think I can use it to good effect if you survive for a few days, so I think it's worth keeping around in case I'm wrong.Um. This is super confusing to me.
unvote
to me too
That'll take too long. ADK/ash/e should all claim at this point.
vote: ashersky
Since when did town!ash propose a plan and not immediately follow through with what it entailed regardless of what people thought? (i.e. claiming immediately)
I am a Henchman. I do cool stuff. Basically a weak lightning rod, because I only take on the actions targeted at one person, instead of all the actions.
I've claimed, so Hydrad and Awalcus are up.
I've claimed, so Hydrad and Awalcus are up.
You didn't claim. Claiming means explaining what your role actually does. You only did some mumble jumble about being a therapist, which looking at the other role names could mean anything.
Fine. I redirect peoples' actions, including attacks, but cannot redirect an attack to scum.
I'm a Pickpocket. Every night, I can target someone to steal their results, i.e. if they would have received any results thanks to their role, they'll receive No Result instead and I will receive whatever that result was. If not, they will be told that someone tried to pickpocket them.
I'm a Pickpocket. Every night, I can target someone to steal their results, i.e. if they would have received any results thanks to their role, they'll receive No Result instead and I will receive whatever that result was. If not, they will be told that someone tried to pickpocket them.
sounds scummy
I'm a Pickpocket. Every night, I can target someone to steal their results, i.e. if they would have received any results thanks to their role, they'll receive No Result instead and I will receive whatever that result was. If not, they will be told that someone tried to pickpocket them.
I'm a Pickpocket. Every night, I can target someone to steal their results, i.e. if they would have received any results thanks to their role, they'll receive No Result instead and I will receive whatever that result was. If not, they will be told that someone tried to pickpocket them.
I feel like the only way that could be beneficial to town is if scum has investigative roles... but considering they're split into two, they probably do. Town read on Awaclus.
as long as you have a good reason which we will hear once you claim, I'm okay with it
Fine. I redirect peoples' actions, including attacks, but cannot redirect an attack to scum.
How exactly do you redirect? Choose a player A, and another player B, and redirect A's action to B?
Eh. I'm cool with it.I'm a Pickpocket. Every night, I can target someone to steal their results, i.e. if they would have received any results thanks to their role, they'll receive No Result instead and I will receive whatever that result was. If not, they will be told that someone tried to pickpocket them.
I feel like the only way that could be beneficial to town is if scum has investigative roles... but considering they're split into two, they probably do. Town read on Awaclus.
Hmm, yeah. It makes a bit more sense from that perspective. Still I don' think this warrants a town read.
By the way, I've been thinking, and it would actually be beneficial for me to claim last. Now you guys need to decide whether you're okay with that.
Let's put it this way - if my twist were for example, knowing the NK before I use my action, then I can redirect the person you target to the person I know will be killed.K. I'm cool with that.
It's not exactly that, but it should give you the right area.
Xerxes feels townie. This doesn't look like the thing scum would do.
Xerxes feels townie. This doesn't look like the thing scum would do.
(At least not scum!Xerxes)
I'm a blind follower. Basically a rolecop but I only get type of power performed (I.e., investigative, protective, etc.)
Sorry, it's the weekend, haven't been around. I'm glad we're actually doing this.
I'm a blind follower. Basically a rolecop but I only get type of power performed (I.e., investigative, protective, etc.)
Sorry, it's the weekend, haven't been around. I'm glad we're actually doing this.
Interesting. this power is much less powerful now that everyone claimed. Although I guess you can catch scum if they made up a role that doesn't exist
Are we doing some kind of order any more?
Oh well, I have a Governor ability and can prevent lynches.
my power is a weaker roleblock
I chose player X and players Y1, Y2, ..., YN with N = number of players / 3
every action X takes against any Y is blocked
I'm a mailman. I get to send a message every Night to a player of my choice (anonymously, though obviously not so anonymously now).
Are we doing some kind of order any more?
Oh well, I have a Governor ability and can prevent lynches.
What's your role name and how exactly does your power work?
Ichi is now the only player except me who hasn't claimed.I did claim.
Ichi is now the only player except me who hasn't claimed.I did claim.
Ichi is now the only player except me who hasn't claimed.I did claim.
Sorry, forgot.
Alright, I'm a Role Watcher. I target a player each night and get all roles that targeted them.
Ichi is now the only player except me who hasn't claimed.I did claim.
Sorry, forgot.
Alright, I'm a Role Watcher. I target a player each night and get all roles that targeted them.
Also, I don't really see why this is so special that you had to claim last. But I think putting yourself out there as important and wanting to claim last is townie coming from you.
I'm not sure I count as Protective, exactly. I don't affect night kills, I only affect lynches.
I'm not sure I count as Protective, exactly. I don't affect night kills, I only affect lynches.
True, I guess you could fit under "special"
If something with your role is wrong, correct me I thinkThe number of players I can pick after I choose a target is decided the same as yours. With No. of players/3 rounded down.
We already decided to massclaim, so I don't think being vague about it now is a good idea. Rather we should try to figure out how to utilize the information best.
Oh. And I should also point out that should none of the people I select to be lynched the next day actually get lynched, the amount of attacks needed to kill my target that night is reduced by one.
Yeah just for that night. It doesn't permanently make them more vulnerable.Oh. And I should also point out that should none of the people I select to be lynched the next day actually get lynched, the amount of attacks needed to kill my target that night is reduced by one.
Thats Unfortunate. But its only for that night right? They don't stay at 1 shot?
Actually that could be great. If you protect scum the other scum team could kill them.
This whole target 1/3 of the players business sounds scummy to me. You know who makes up exactly 1/3 of the players? Scum.
This whole target 1/3 of the players business sounds scummy to me. You know who makes up exactly 1/3 of the players? Scum.
I kind of agree with this. But it's possible the roles were designed ahead of time and then assigned randomly, given that Arch stated independence of alignment.
Setup does state they're independent of alignment.I guess all the roles could be used by scum as well?
oh and * = you said something about "you can't kill mafia"; what does that mean?
As in, it fails if I do that. I assume I'm not told be the mod, but I can check.
I don't think roles were handedly randomly or anything. The OP says that they are "generally" independent of alignment, which I think just means that you can't necessarily tell who's town or scum just by looking at them.
Vote Count 1.2
Joseph (1): 2.7
silverspawn (1): Awaclus
A Drowned Kernel (1): ashersky
Awaclus (3): Joseph, Witherweaver, faust
Witherweaver (3): chairs, Ichimaru Gin, silverspawn
ashersky (1): A Drowned Kernel
Not Voting (2): Hydrad, XerxesPraelor
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 deadline is March 15th at 5:45 PM.
vote: ashersky
I don't think roles were handedly randomly or anything. The OP says that they are "generally" independent of alignment, which I think just means that you can't necessarily tell who's town or scum just by looking at them.
Seconding this. BTW, why were/l you against the claim? It looks like you in particular benefit from knowing other peoples' roles.
Unvote.
Vote: XPI agree. Vote: XP.
I don't see how thats useful for town at all really.
Third, by redirecting people, I can check if the second person is scum.
Let me make sure I understand this plan.
I send a message to silverspawn -> XP redirects to joseph -> silverspawn claims whether or not he got the message -> result on joseph
One thing I do see as beneficial here is that I know what message I sent, so we basically can verify immediately whether (in the above example) silverspawn is scum.
Fine. I redirect peoples' actions, including attacks, but cannot redirect an attack to scum.
Just reread it. It fails complete if the one I redirect to is scum, no matter what the action is.
He already cleared that up a page ago:Just reread it. It fails complete if the one I redirect to is scum, no matter what the action is.
so, I would actually say we do this plan. The question is just which player do we want to investigate. how about ash or Hydrad?
Ooh, I like vote: Ichi now.Why, might I ask?
Ooh, I like vote: Ichi now.
so, I would actually say we do this plan. The question is just which player do we want to investigate. how about ash or Hydrad?
Uhh... we do not publicly discuss this is best I think.
Ooh, I like vote: Ichi now.Why? I don't. He made sense.
so, I would actually say we do this plan. The question is just which player do we want to investigate. how about ash or Hydrad?
Uhh... we do not publicly discuss this is best I think.
I thought the nature of this plan makes public planing inevitable.
I like vote: faust more. I also feel like faust made my role sound scummier than it actually is (ignoring the possibility that scum might have investigative powers), and Ichi's points are good too.
I like vote: faust more. I also feel like faust made my role sound scummier than it actually is (ignoring the possibility that scum might have investigative powers), and Ichi's points are good too.
no... this feels dishonest
vote: Awaclus
I like vote: faust more. I also feel like faust made my role sound scummier than it actually is (ignoring the possibility that scum might have investigative powers), and Ichi's points are good too.
no... this feels dishonest
vote: Awaclus
It's not.
It's important for people to remember we have two scumteams here. I think faust is scum--and ADK not responding with any explanation for his vote on me feels bad also. It's also totally possible that some of the people jumping on the faust wagon are opportunistic scum from the opposite team though.
I just wanted to put this out here since I can feel myself having to break away from the one-team scumhunting logic that I'm used to.
Ichi's whole post feels like total OMGUS to me, and seems like scum worried about the lynch pool getting too narrow. I agree with a lot of faust's analysis, though I don't think we should be lynching people based solely on how scummy their role is. People's reactions, though, are telling.Well this is just ludicrous. Yes it's OMGUS to a degree--but faust's behavior has been legitimately troubling and scummy. Why should I be bullied out of voting for him just because he voted me first? Scared about the lynch pool getting too narrow? Where did you get that from? If anything, it looks to me like faust did some "analysis" and laid down some ground rules and then just completely ignored them. Then you jumped my wagon because you thought you could get away with it and are now scrambling to invent reasons why you voted me.
Ichi's whole post feels like total OMGUS to me, and seems like scum worried about the lynch pool getting too narrow. I agree with a lot of faust's analysis, though I don't think we should be lynching people based solely on how scummy their role is. People's reactions, though, are telling.
Um why? My thought process was something like "faust is super scummy and now Awaclus is voting him so that makes me feel townier about Awaclus." And then SS posted and I remembered that my logic for Awaclus didn't really work because of the multiball.It's important for people to remember we have two scumteams here. I think faust is scum--and ADK not responding with any explanation for his vote on me feels bad also. It's also totally possible that some of the people jumping on the faust wagon are opportunistic scum from the opposite team though.
I just wanted to put this out here since I can feel myself having to break away from the one-team scumhunting logic that I'm used to.
This sets off scum alarms.
Ichi's whole post feels like total OMGUS to me, and seems like scum worried about the lynch pool getting too narrow. I agree with a lot of faust's analysis, though I don't think we should be lynching people based solely on how scummy their role is. People's reactions, though, are telling.Well this is just ludicrous. Yes it's OMGUS to a degree--but faust's behavior has been legitimately troubling and scummy. Why should I be bullied out of voting for him just because he voted me first? Scared about the lynch pool getting too narrow? Where did you get that from? If anything, it looks to me like faust did some "analysis" and laid down some ground rules and then just completely ignored them. Then you jumped my wagon because you thought you could get away with it and are now scrambling to invent reasons why you voted me.
I think you're scum btw.
PPE: 1
I think "heated" is a bit of an exaggeration. You don't sound all that unforced yourself.That double negative is slightly confusing me. I'm excited because I feel like I've caught scum.
It feels a bit like you're trying to blow this into a "fight" when there really isn't much fighting going on.Ok. That's probably true. But that's mostly because ADK isn't around right now. I feel like he left before I could draw him into explaining himself more. I mean, he's said his peace--it doesn't hold up (to me at least), so he's hoping that we just forget about it. I'm not going to though.
I like vote: faust more. I also feel like faust made my role sound scummier than it actually is (ignoring the possibility that scum might have investigative powers), and Ichi's points are good too.
no... this feels dishonest
vote: Awaclus
It's not.
of course scum!you would claim that it's not, making it a rather redundant statement, not unlike this one
I like vote: faust more. I also feel like faust made my role sound scummier than it actually is (ignoring the possibility that scum might have investigative powers), and Ichi's points are good too.
no... this feels dishonest
vote: Awaclus
It's not.
of course scum!you would claim that it's not, making it a rather redundant statement, not unlike this one
Town!me would also claim that it's not (and actually did, too). And it would be a lie from both scum!me and town!me. I'm not very honest as either alignment, tbh, as has been apparent in some recent games where I was town, so that's not really the best kind of argument to use against me. Instead, does the post feel like it was written from the perspective I would have as scum? I'm pretty sure it shouldn't, because it's not.
Yeah. Your read on me is so forced.
You said you thought "a lot" of faust's analysis was sound? Were there some parts you didn't agree with?
To quote faust from Yoshi's island
"Your silence is giving you away."
I think "heated" is a bit of an exaggeration. You don't sound all that unforced yourself.That double negative is slightly confusing me. I'm excited because I feel like I've caught scum.
What, you think I don't think ADK is actually scummy?
I've been scum a lot recently, and now I'm town. I feel like an IC. I feel invincible. I don't know, maybe I'm just having a good day.
Tons of interesting arguments here, I'm leaning town on Faust, neutral on IG (I feel like this is something he could have manufactured, but it doesn't feel like he's forcing it). I'm feeling a little vote: awaclus out of it.
One thing we should probably keep in mind for D1 is that, all else being equal, we might want to consider providing a slight preference to lynching folks with extremely high scum utility powers. Also, if I were scum, having heard our plan, I think I'd be gunning for XP tonight - how can we make sure that we nix that kill, or at least get the best value out of any attempt on XP?
Players with low town utility, but high scum utility should be lynched or at least be given orders for what to do each night.
I'll be working on a plan for tonight. Vote: Ichi for now.
I like vote: faust more. I also feel like faust made my role sound scummier than it actually is (ignoring the possibility that scum might have investigative powers), and Ichi's points are good too.
no... this feels dishonest
vote: Awaclus
It's not.
of course scum!you would claim that it's not, making it a rather redundant statement, not unlike this one
Town!me would also claim that it's not (and actually did, too). And it would be a lie from both scum!me and town!me. I'm not very honest as either alignment, tbh, as has been apparent in some recent games where I was town, so that's not really the best kind of argument to use against me. Instead, does the post feel like it was written from the perspective I would have as scum? I'm pretty sure it shouldn't, because it's not.
This feels bad to me. I don't like people who are overly aware of their own meta, especially pointing it out.
@ADK have we played together before?
If you bothered to read my other posts, you would see I mentioned this. You're working to misinterpret me here.To quote faust from Yoshi's island
"Your silence is giving you away."
I was away from the computer. My entire life does not revolve around mafia.
Or Dune 2--where I overreacted in the beginning, or Dice Mafia where I overreacted to faust calling me scum because of my low role, or Musical Mafia where scum used my overreaction and early claim for a winning mislynch. This is blatant cherry-picking and super annoying.@ADK have we played together before?
You mean like in Yoshi's Island, when you reacted very emotionally to people voting for you, and were scum? Or in Silo, when you reacted very emotionally to people voting for you, and were scum? Or in Stack the Deck, when you reacted very emotionally to people voting for you, and were scum? Yeah, you've done it as town, but here it just feels kind of forced, and I don't get faust as a target for it at all.
PPE: @WW I suppose. It doesn't mean I have to like it. Especially since he's giving himself an excuse to be dishonest.
If you bothered to read my other posts, you would see I mentioned this. You're working to misinterpret me here.To quote faust from Yoshi's island
"Your silence is giving you away."
I was away from the computer. My entire life does not revolve around mafia.
PPEs: Wow. Now who's overreacting?
You're scum. You need to die.
Distraction, deflection, and more purposeful ignorance of people's metas.
Can we please lynch ADK today?
Wheeeee, we did this. Now who's scum?So what changed your mind?
I agree that joseph and Ichi have the towniest looking roles.
Oh, maybe just tossing out that you think all my reads suck (when you don't even know all of my reads) and providing 0 evidence for it--not to mention that reads are subjective.If you bothered to read my other posts, you would see I mentioned this. You're working to misinterpret me here.To quote faust from Yoshi's island
"Your silence is giving you away."
I was away from the computer. My entire life does not revolve around mafia.
PPEs: Wow. Now who's overreacting?
You're scum. You need to die.
Distraction, deflection, and more purposeful ignorance of people's metas.
Can we please lynch ADK today?
I was catching up and reacted as I went, so sue me. And how is that an overreaction? You were making a point about your meta, I was providing counter evidence to that point.
PPE: Like I said, you've done it as town. You've also done it as scum.
Am I witnessing fake arguing?
Wheeeee, we did this. Now who's scum?So what changed your mind?
I agree that joseph and Ichi have the towniest looking roles.
Oh yeah, and you ignored my question about what you didn't agree with faust about.
Yeah. Your read on me is so forced.
You said you thought "a lot" of faust's analysis was sound? Were there some parts you didn't agree with?
I think he underestimates the scum utility of ash's role, for starters. It could be useful for finding the other scum team.
Oh, maybe just tossing out that you think all my reads suck (when you don't even know all of my reads) and providing 0 evidence for it--not to mention that reads are subjective.If you bothered to read my other posts, you would see I mentioned this. You're working to misinterpret me here.To quote faust from Yoshi's island
"Your silence is giving you away."
I was away from the computer. My entire life does not revolve around mafia.
PPEs: Wow. Now who's overreacting?
You're scum. You need to die.
Distraction, deflection, and more purposeful ignorance of people's metas.
Can we please lynch ADK today?
I was catching up and reacted as I went, so sue me. And how is that an overreaction? You were making a point about your meta, I was providing counter evidence to that point.
PPE: Like I said, you've done it as town. You've also done it as scum.
Uh huh. I've been saying it's a null tell forever, but you gave it as the #1 reason why you're voting for me so no, sorry, you can't pretend you think it's a null tell now.
IG what makes you so sure on ADK? people suspect you all the time as town and scum. Your making it sound like you are like 90% sure hes scum. I feel like you usually don't do that part. You usually just defend and don't know whos scum. This time it seems your mind is already made up that ADK is scum.
IG what makes you so sure on ADK? people suspect you all the time as town and scum. Your making it sound like you are like 90% sure hes scum. I feel like you usually don't do that part. You usually just defend and don't know whos scum. This time it seems your mind is already made up that ADK is scum.His reasoning here is terrible and a lot of people see that. He's sticking to it though because it'll look bad if he backs off at this point.
IG what makes you so sure on ADK? people suspect you all the time as town and scum. Your making it sound like you are like 90% sure hes scum. I feel like you usually don't do that part. You usually just defend and don't know whos scum. This time it seems your mind is already made up that ADK is scum.His reasoning here is terrible and a lot of people see that. He's sticking to it though because it'll look bad if he backs off at this point.
His reasoning here is terrible and a lot of people see that. He's sticking to it though because it'll look bad if he backs off at this point.
Faust said we should lynch those who have roles with high scum utility and low town utility. My role does not fit that definition--and he listed a bunch of people whose roles do fit that definition--yet he votes me with no explanation or argument for it.
There's always a bit of grandstanding in me. I feel like you sheeped my wagon, had bad meta reasons for voting me and have continued to unfairly attack me.His reasoning here is terrible and a lot of people see that. He's sticking to it though because it'll look bad if he backs off at this point.
I'm sticking too it because I think you're scum.
Ichi, do you still think that faust is scum?
PPE: faust said he was working on a plan. He didn't explain why he was voting for you, but I'm assuming that there is in fact a reason.
Why?His reasoning here is terrible and a lot of people see that. He's sticking to it though because it'll look bad if he backs off at this point.I'm sticking too it because I think you're scum.
There's always a bit of grandstanding in me. I feel like you sheeped my wagon, had bad meta reasons for voting me and have continued to unfairly attack me.His reasoning here is terrible and a lot of people see that. He's sticking to it though because it'll look bad if he backs off at this point.
I'm sticking too it because I think you're scum.
Ichi, do you still think that faust is scum?
PPE: faust said he was working on a plan. He didn't explain why he was voting for you, but I'm assuming that there is in fact a reason.
faust hasn't been around, so it's hard to say. I'll wait for him to show up.
Why?His reasoning here is terrible and a lot of people see that. He's sticking to it though because it'll look bad if he backs off at this point.I'm sticking too it because I think you're scum.
OMGUS?
I'm voting everyone's precious IC faust?
My overreactions?
I don't think I've ever seen ADK arguing this strongly for something before. that's interesting. Not sure if it's an alignment tell though.
You'll have to wait for a proper response util tomorrow I fear. I tentatively think Ichi is scummy here, and honestly have a hard time understanding why people would vote for one of our only investigative roles at all on D1.are you talking about yourself?
I really don't think I've been lurkingI don't think I've ever seen ADK arguing this strongly for something before. that's interesting. Not sure if it's an alignment tell though.
Oh and btw I also think that Silver's been pretty scummy here, he's been a little lurky. Not a terribly strong read but it's there.
You'll have to wait for a proper response util tomorrow I fear. I tentatively think Ichi is scummy here, and honestly have a hard time understanding why people would vote for one of our only investigative roles at all on D1.Ok. Tentatively scummy. That's ok, but kind of hedgy especially with your vote.
If by "unfairly attack you" you mean "keep my vote on you and continue to reiterate my reasons for doing so", then yes. This is mafia, all reads are based at least a little on speculation. I don't think I've been manipulative or unfair here at all.No I meant more like "you're reads suck because they aren't identical to mine, here's some WIFOM for why you're scum."
Um why? My thought process was something like "faust is super scummy and now Awaclus is voting him so that makes me feel townier about Awaclus." And then SS posted and I remembered that my logic for Awaclus didn't really work because of the multiball.It's important for people to remember we have two scumteams here. I think faust is scum--and ADK not responding with any explanation for his vote on me feels bad also. It's also totally possible that some of the people jumping on the faust wagon are opportunistic scum from the opposite team though.
I just wanted to put this out here since I can feel myself having to break away from the one-team scumhunting logic that I'm used to.
This sets off scum alarms.
Please don't tell me this is just because I read the setup.
None of you read the setup, because this is NOT multiball.
Oh. Well I honestly have a hard time understanding why people are voting like our only real protective role on D1.
Town Doctor is at L-2
I like vote: faust more. I also feel like faust made my role sound scummier than it actually is (ignoring the possibility that scum might have investigative powers), and Ichi's points are good too.
no... this feels dishonest
vote: Awaclus
It's not.
of course scum!you would claim that it's not, making it a rather redundant statement, not unlike this one
Town!me would also claim that it's not (and actually did, too). And it would be a lie from both scum!me and town!me. I'm not very honest as either alignment, tbh, as has been apparent in some recent games where I was town, so that's not really the best kind of argument to use against me. Instead, does the post feel like it was written from the perspective I would have as scum? I'm pretty sure it shouldn't, because it's not.
This feels bad to me. I don't like people who are overly aware of their own meta, especially pointing it out.
This is correct.I don't think I have played in a multi-ball game since Toy Story, which was my first game here.
And- The members of one faction will be unknown to the other. Each will flip as Mafia-aligned, be given their own factional QT, and have their own factional half-kill done by "Attacking" another player.
- Just like a normal night kill, each night, in addition to whatever other roles a Mafia member possesses, one member of each faction may target a player to “Attack”. When a player has been attacked once by each faction, they will die.
- Players will not be notified when they've been attacked and the attack status rolls over from night to night.
- Attacks from one faction can affect members of the other faction, but a Mafia member is immune to their specific faction's attack.
- When one Mafia faction has been eliminated, someone dies by being attacked twice by one faction instead of once by each faction.
So faction A has a qt together and Faction B has a qt together. Or is it Member 1 of Faction A has a qt with Member 1 of Faction B and then Member 2 of either faction cannot communicate with their partner? And every single member of the mafia attacks, but it takes 2 attacks to kill a person?
I don't think it's actually multi-ball -- my understanding is that mafia is mafia, just split into two.
I mean, they can't kill each other unless they shoot themselves. So I think mafia wins together, they just are split into two teams that can't talk to each other.
See, and that's another thing you've done as scum, called me scummy when I was voting for you and then backed off after I did. Gah.I don't recall that. Don't worry though. I haven't backed off yet.
This is correct.I don't think I have played in a multi-ball game since Toy Story, which was my first game here.
And- The members of one faction will be unknown to the other. Each will flip as Mafia-aligned, be given their own factional QT, and have their own factional half-kill done by "Attacking" another player.
- Just like a normal night kill, each night, in addition to whatever other roles a Mafia member possesses, one member of each faction may target a player to “Attack”. When a player has been attacked once by each faction, they will die.
- Players will not be notified when they've been attacked and the attack status rolls over from night to night.
- Attacks from one faction can affect members of the other faction, but a Mafia member is immune to their specific faction's attack.
- When one Mafia faction has been eliminated, someone dies by being attacked twice by one faction instead of once by each faction.
So faction A has a qt together and Faction B has a qt together. Or is it Member 1 of Faction A has a qt with Member 1 of Faction B and then Member 2 of either faction cannot communicate with their partner? And every single member of the mafia attacks, but it takes 2 attacks to kill a person?
I don't think it's actually multi-ball -- my understanding is that mafia is mafia, just split into two.
I mean, they can't kill each other unless they shoot themselves. So I think mafia wins together, they just are split into two teams that can't talk to each other.
Reply #9 in this thread. Before the game started, before it was full, before alignments were assigned. This was clarified, by the mod, in the game thread.
I do, however, give ADK scum points for giving the slip so much weight. As scum, I found that I have a strong tendency to believe "slips" in order not to appear scumy.
I do, however, give ADK scum points for giving the slip so much weight. As scum, I found that I have a strong tendency to believe "slips" in order not to appear scumy.
I'm saying it seems sincere to me. I'm not saying he couldn't have made that slip as scum. It just means we have to assume that his partner made that mistake as well, which seems a little more unlikely.
I do, however, give ADK scum points for giving the slip so much weight. As scum, I found that I have a strong tendency to believe "slips" in order not to appear scumy.
I'm saying it seems sincere to me. I'm not saying he couldn't have made that slip as scum. It just means we have to assume that his partner made that mistake as well, which seems a little more unlikely.
why does his partner have to have made a mistake in order for him to fake a townslip?
I do, however, give ADK scum points for giving the slip so much weight. As scum, I found that I have a strong tendency to believe "slips" in order not to appear scumy.
I'm saying it seems sincere to me. I'm not saying he couldn't have made that slip as scum. It just means we have to assume that his partner made that mistake as well, which seems a little more unlikely.
why does his partner have to have made a mistake in order for him to fake a townslip?
I'm talking about the situation where he honestly made the mistake but is still scum; if he and his partner both thought that they were their own scumteam.
So we lynch based on reads. Have any you'd care to share?
I'm curious why everyone seems to have a town read on silver. What's up with that?
I like towny scummy towny dude. I'm going to do everything I can to maintain precisely that read.
None of you read the setup, because this is NOT multiball.
-----
I think anyone trying to push the multiball mindset on this game is scummy because it is purposefully misleading. It is trying to get us thinking about scum in the wrong way, which will lead us down incorrect lines of reasoning.
I'm not sure we can go with scummy/not scummy based on claims.
It's important for people to remember we have two scumteams here. I think faust is scum--and ADK not responding with any explanation for his vote on me feels bad also. It's also totally possible that some of the people jumping on the faust wagon are opportunistic scum from the opposite team though.
I just wanted to put this out here since I can feel myself having to break away from the one-team scumhunting logic that I'm used to.
This sets off scum alarms.
This sets off scum alarms.Public Service Announcement Post
Ichi is Mr. OMGUS, as either town or scum.Putting Ichi into a category
Because when I played scum in a game where I believed there were two scum teams (Monster's U) I felt so much pressure to point it out.Brings up a point as to why Ichi is could be scummy, then says "meh, who knows"
But, eh, different situation here, so take it with a grain of salt.
I actually agree that ADK sounds a bit forced here.Adding fuel to the fire for our OMGUS discussion
I think "heated" is a bit of an exaggeration. You don't sound all that unforced yourself.More fuel
It feels a bit like you're trying to blow this into a "fight" when there really isn't much fighting going on.More fuel
So what's your motivation/reasoning for voting someone in the middle of the town/scum utility spectrum?Honest question, but doesn't really do anything with it
I've seen a lot of town players that are very meta-aware. I think it's more of an individual trait than an alignment trait. If I recall, you've used that kind of reasoning to push lynches against town!me before.Public Service Announcement
Am I witnessing fake arguing?What is the point of this question? They are both scum?
It's not that terrible. I honestly can't figure out if you're being sincere or if you're grandstanding.Setting people up for lynching
Yes, this is what I asked. I have some ideas on this, but I want to hear Faust respond.No value added with this comment
Man, if reading the setup is scummy, then reading the pregame mod discussions is, like, ultimate scum tell.Making a joke. But a joke about things being scummy. (don't get me wrong, I love a good joke in a mafia game. I am not of the Robz school of thought that jokes should never happen)
Which is the more likely scenario, I think. It's not the kind of thing you think about constructing, and even if you do, it came out in a pretty natural way while Ichi was talking.Just commenting on stuff
I like towny scummy towny dude. I'm going to do everything I can to maintain precisely that read.No real value added here.
I had an idea for an experiment, which I think would aid in the later stages of this game, but I'm sure you'll all just say I'm super scummy for it, so I think I shouldn't suggest it.
But e's case is not really that bad. Then again, it probably could be made of anyone here.I don't buy that for a moment.
Is sheepy ADK towny or scummy? I can't recall.
Why am I voting him, anyway?
unvote
But e's case is not really that bad. Then again, it probably could be made of anyone here.I don't buy that for a moment.
To clarify. I think it could be said of some others, but by no means all.But e's case is not really that bad. Then again, it probably could be made of anyone here.I don't buy that for a moment.
Then again, it probably could be made of anyone here.
yeah, out with it
I think it might actually end up giving scum a way to communicate without looking scummy, so I'll acknowledge ash's premonition as correct - it's a scummy suggestion.
ADK is giving off really weird vibes, but I think Faust's misrepresentation of the roles is more clearly scummy.
The distraction is there, and a factor to consider.
I'd say do it in your next post, and don't even comment on anyone else's pairings, and we just move on. It isn't doing anything for us D1 anyway.
Also, speaking of distractions, witherweaver is an anagram of whatever wire.
faust. I feel like you're being purposefully dishonest in voting me and your analysis of my role.
You already seemingly acknowledged that you understood that the # of players I pick after my original target is determined the same was as SS--yet you omit that from your analysis post. I never used the word Doctor to describe my role--yet you act as if I did. My role protects my target from all attacks if one of the other people I choose gets lynched. You rate numerous, numerous other people as having roles with higher scum utility and lower town utility. I just don't get it.
I don't really buy that you aren't paying attention. I think you're doing this on purpose and it makes me want to vote: faust. I can make my lynch choices public the following day so it can be guaranteed that my target gets protected during the night--assuming that at least one of my choices is likable to most people. So it is not that difficult to ensure that my role doesn't "backfire".
I don't like how e gives you town credit for claiming last and pretending that you had a reason for it when your supposed role does not warrant that at all. You know you don't have any good reason to vote me--and it seems you purposefully refrained from stating any, so I can only conclude that you're either scum or doing this to get a reaction out of me (maybe both).
I like vote: faust more. I also feel like faust made my role sound scummier than it actually is (ignoring the possibility that scum might have investigative powers), and Ichi's points are good too.
Ichi's whole post feels like total OMGUS to me, and seems like scum worried about the lynch pool getting too narrow. I agree with a lot of faust's analysis, though I don't think we should be lynching people based solely on how scummy their role is. People's reactions, though, are telling.Well this is just ludicrous. Yes it's OMGUS to a degree--but faust's behavior has been legitimately troubling and scummy. Why should I be bullied out of voting for him just because he voted me first? Scared about the lynch pool getting too narrow? Where did you get that from? If anything, it looks to me like faust did some "analysis" and laid down some ground rules and then just completely ignored them. Then you jumped my wagon because you thought you could get away with it and are now scrambling to invent reasons why you voted me.
I think you're scum btw.
PPE: 1
I agree completely with ichi. Faust's analysis looked insincere and manipulative. I don't know if that reflects well on Awalcus though.
vote: Faust
that is problematic. we don't have any sort of watcher or doctor - the closest thing is the blackmailing power, which is delayed. I don't see any way to protect our strong PR's
Players with low town utility, but high scum utility should be lynched or at least be given orders for what to do each night.I'll be working on a plan for tonight. Vote: Ichi for now.
So what's your motivation/reasoning for voting someone in the middle of the town/scum utility spectrum?
I strongly disagree with your read on faust, which is the whole point here. You reacted to faust's analysis, not with "I disagree with some of that, here's how my role can be used to benefit town", but with "this analysis sucks, faust is obvscum". It looks a lot to me like perhaps faust was hitting a little too close to home with what he was saying, and you felt you had to react strongly against it.
You'll have to wait for a proper response util tomorrow I fear. I tentatively think Ichi is scummy here, and honestly have a hard time understanding why people would vote for one of our only investigative roles at all on D1.are you talking about yourself?
I missed your role when I said we don't have a watcher or doctor. You're sort of a weak watcher.
I'm not sure we can go with scummy/not scummy based on claims.
We could possibly try to figure out which claims feel the fakest, I guess.
On faust's mega-post -- I didn't have issue with it as an exercise, although I'd differ on some ratings. But that's to be expected -- they are opinions. I'm surprised by some of the vitriolic responses, though.
I think "lynching the strongest powers for scum" idea is exactly what Arch was trying to fight by having his odd qualifier about how roles were assigned. Like, you can't give a killing role to scum, since then they get two kills. So you'd think that the Poisoner is town, except you don't even know if that's really his role.
Here's a fun theory: scum claims Poisoner, then he says he can prove it. Says he targeted Player A. Imagine he's actually scum just lying. Now, the other half of the scum team can target that guy to kill him (maybe), and it looks like it's true. I mean, he couldn't coordinate that, unless he had plans on how to make it obvious to the other scum team. Or maybe I just thwarted his plan.
But the point is, we can do this for most of the controversial roles.
I'm curious why everyone seems to have a town read on silver. What's up with that?
I'm fairly confident Ash is town now, because I think it would be odd to have that line of thought as scum.
Also, lynching me is bad and you should feel bad.
I'm fairly confident Ash is town now, because I think it would be odd to have that line of thought as scum.
Also, lynching me is bad and you should feel bad.
I don't buy that for one second. Ash explicitly stated he had that thought process pregame.
Players with low town utility, but high scum utility should be lynched or at least be given orders for what to do each night.I'll be working on a plan for tonight. Vote: Ichi for now.
So what's your motivation/reasoning for voting someone in the middle of the town/scum utility spectrum?
See earlier response. Also, I feel that roles that would be "too good" for scum are also unlikely to be scum. The poison kill fits this very much, but to a smaller degree also Xerxes' role.
vote: hydrad
That's a very sheepy case, and the rest of the post looks like a scum partner soooo much.
Hydrad/Faust/e scum team for posterity.
vote: hydradTownslip!
That's a very sheepy case, and the rest of the post looks like a scum partner soooo much.
Hydrad/Faust/e scum team for posterity.
Except I think Faust is town, and e is probably town too.e might be town. Faust is scum for sure. I actually see you as a likely partner for him.
Except I think Faust is town, and e is probably town too.e might be town. Faust is scum for sure. I actually see you as a likely partner for him.
Are you telling me you read your PM?Except I think Faust is town, and e is probably town too.e might be town. Faust is scum for sure. I actually see you as a likely partner for him.
That's hard to pull off, since I'm town.
Are you telling me you read your PM?Except I think Faust is town, and e is probably town too.e might be town. Faust is scum for sure. I actually see you as a likely partner for him.
That's hard to pull off, since I'm town.
Ok. I guess I'll give you that. I'm uber-suspicious of all these people saying faust is town though.
strong player != town
Well maybe I'm just blinded by him tunneling me (it's happened before). I see your second statement as WIFOM though. You're giving him town credit for it, so it could just as easily be a scum move.Ok. I guess I'll give you that. I'm uber-suspicious of all these people saying faust is town though.
strong player != town
Direction of mass claim sounds more like town Faust than scum Faust. Usually as scum you're not that insistent about everyone doing things that are obviously better for you (i.e., claiming last).
Well maybe I'm just blinded by him tunneling me (it's happened before). I see your second statement as WIFOM though. You're giving him town credit for it, so it could just as easily be a scum move.Ok. I guess I'll give you that. I'm uber-suspicious of all these people saying faust is town though.
strong player != town
Direction of mass claim sounds more like town Faust than scum Faust. Usually as scum you're not that insistent about everyone doing things that are obviously better for you (i.e., claiming last).
So who do you really want to lynch today? Silver?
Silver is 10x townier than faust and is more of a consensus townread. It's been awhile since the last vote count, are you still voting him?
Good thing: We can't lose this game anyway. Once it looks like we're going to lose, Arch will just step forward and modkill all the remaining mafia.
Good thing: We can't lose this game anyway. Once it looks like we're going to lose, Arch will just step forward and modkill all the remaining mafia.
What does this post mean?
vote: WW. This latest round of interactions with IG feels like he's going left, then right.
Good thing: We can't lose this game anyway. Once it looks like we're going to lose, Arch will just step forward and modkill all the remaining mafia.
What does this post mean?
vote: WW. This latest round of interactions with IG feels like he's going left, then right.
Is hedgey WW scum WW? I don't think so.
Good thing: We can't lose this game anyway. Once it looks like we're going to lose, Arch will just step forward and modkill all the remaining mafia.
What does this post mean?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deus_ex_machina
Eh. I feel that Ichi recalls that he usually gets in a big fight with me and tries to reproduce this meta here. He's making a big fuss over things I already responded to. It doesn't feel genuine.
Eh. I feel that Ichi recalls that he usually gets in a big fight with me and tries to reproduce this meta here. He's making a big fuss over things I already responded to. It doesn't feel genuine.Um. By my reckoning I didn't start things (you'll probably disagree). I still have no idea why you're voting me.
Eh. I feel that Ichi recalls that he usually gets in a big fight with me and tries to reproduce this meta here. He's making a big fuss over things I already responded to. It doesn't feel genuine.
I don't think he faked the townslip. Only other option was his partner and him legitimately thought they were in multiball. Do you think that likely?
Not sure how where these WW/Hydrad wagons suddenly come from. I mean, these are not bad lynches, but I'll have to reread. I would usually fear scum driving attention away from Ichi, but with only one partner, I doubt they can manage such a shift... so it's probably just natural.Um. Did anyone aside from you and ADK ever think I was scum? I don't think there was ever really any real attention on me; and therefore no way that said attention could theoretically be diverted. It doesn't feel like you think I'm scum--it feels like your're pretending and doing a poor job of it.
Well, isn't this a typical Ichi? Why would scum!me be "purposefully dishonest"? I mean, scum!me would probably try to genuinely scumhunt here. I voted for you because your role seemed to be meh for town, but for scum it's a cool role that requires high-level play to get the most use out of it, and I know that's a thing Archetype likes, so it seemed more likely to me that he would give this role to scum. Also, reactions, which we now obviously got.
See earlier response. Also, I feel that roles that would be "too good" for scum are also unlikely to be scum. The poison kill fits this very much, but to a smaller degree also Xerxes' role.
Not sure how where these WW/Hydrad wagons suddenly come from. I mean, these are not bad lynches, but I'll have to reread. I would usually fear scum driving attention away from Ichi, but with only one partner, I doubt they can manage such a shift... so it's probably just natural.Um. Did anyone aside from you and ADK ever think I was scum? I don't think there was ever really any real attention on me; and therefore no way that said attention could theoretically be diverted. It doesn't feel like you think I'm scum--it feels like your're pretending and doing a poor job of it.
ftr. I made a note of how quickly Hydrad's wagon grew.
PPE: Please. I know what multiball means. It's like multiple scumteams that are competing with each other.
Also, joseph's pretty quiet for someone who's been basically declared an IC.
PS: I'm calling this the silverspawn defense from now on.
what exactly is "this"?
I'm not joking. It is bad.
what exactly is "this"?
"scum!me doesn't do this, so I have to be town"
I'm not joking. It is bad.
In what world is voting bad?
so, ADk, was
- fighting (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.msg468233#msg468233) the massclaim (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.msg468293#msg468293)
- voting for XP (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.msg468239#msg468239) because he claimed
- overjustifies (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.msg468246#msg468246) his actions
- says Ichi has a super towny role (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.0;all), but then he votes Ichi (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.msg469354#msg469354) after he makes a good post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.msg469345#msg469345), and then there is this huge (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.msg469374#msg469374) fight (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.msg469461#msg469461) with him (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.msg469502#msg469502).
- then there's the town slip reaction (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.msg469523#msg469523)
well and now he put Hydrad at L-2 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.msg469957#msg469957) put unvoted in the same post because Hydrad... made a response?
well, a lot of that isn't necessarily scummy. but it seems different from how he usually plays.
For now, I still like my vote on Hydrad
so, ADk, was
- fighting (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.msg468233#msg468233) the massclaim (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.msg468293#msg468293)
- voting for XP (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.msg468239#msg468239) because he claimed
- overjustifies (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.msg468246#msg468246) his actions
- says Ichi has a super towny role (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.0;all), but then he votes Ichi (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.msg469354#msg469354) after he makes a good post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.msg469345#msg469345), and then there is this huge (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.msg469374#msg469374) fight (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.msg469461#msg469461) with him (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.msg469502#msg469502).
- then there's the town slip reaction (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.msg469523#msg469523)
well and now he put Hydrad at L-2 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.msg469957#msg469957) put unvoted in the same post because Hydrad... made a response?
well, a lot of that isn't necessarily scummy. but it seems different from how he usually plays.
For now, I still like my vote on Hydrad
This entire post (until the last line) looks like you are making a case on ADK, then end it with being happy with your vote on Hydrad. This makes no sense.
I want to lynch the Hydrad.
all I really want to know is why...
all I really want to know is why...
Because you're scum.
all I really want to know is why...
Because you're scum.
...
Lets try this then. Would you mind pointing out some things that made you feel I was scum?
I'm not joking. It is bad.
In what world is voting bad?
When I'm town.
This entire post (until the last line) looks like you are making a case on ADK, then end it with being happy with your vote on Hydrad. This makes no sense.
HiGood thing: We can't lose this game anyway. Once it looks like we're going to lose, Arch will just step forward and modkill all the remaining mafia.
What does this post mean?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deus_ex_machina
Oh thats interesting. It would be fun if Arch does have some say suddenly in this game.
HiGood thing: We can't lose this game anyway. Once it looks like we're going to lose, Arch will just step forward and modkill all the remaining mafia.
What does this post mean?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deus_ex_machina
Oh thats interesting. It would be fun if Arch does have some say suddenly in this game.
Hydrad wasn't coming up with his own arguments, and it felt to me like he was manufacturing his outcome.
I'm not joking. It is bad.
In what world is voting bad?
When I'm town.
See, now you're not even trying.
We can also verify my role by just lynching my target tomorrow. That would be cool, but I'm not sure how much utility it would offer.
We can also verify my role by just lynching my target tomorrow. That would be cool, but I'm not sure how much utility it would offer.
Depends on the target. I am extremely hesitant to put someone at L just to prove your role.
I'm not joking. It is bad.
In what world is voting bad?
When I'm town.
See, now you're not even trying.
It's not really my job to convince you I'm town, and it's probably pointless, but I'll play.
1) I obviously didn't have a good understanding of how Mafia works in this setup as I was engaging with Ichi based on a flawed understanding of the scum team. I didn't notice he townslipped because I didn't know he was wrong. You can say constructed or whatever, but it wasn't.
2) Does scum get Governor? I don't know, maybe, but to me it seems a lot more powerful for scum than for town. And if I was scum Governor, I easily could have made up some modification to make it higher town utility. Now of course you can argue that I was planning to make this argument, but man that requires some foresight on my part.
3) Joking me is not scum me. Joking me is joking me. We had this conversation last time you tried to lynch me when I was town, by the way.
Let's not.But whyyyyyyyyyyy?
We can also verify my role by just lynching my target tomorrow. That would be cool, but I'm not sure how much utility it would offer.
Ichi trying to deflect from the Hydrad lynch?Why do you want to lynch Hydrad so bad? faust is so much scummier.
It feels like you're manipulating yourself. So maybe scum is manipulating you?I could still lynch you.
Vote however you want to. I hereby give you permission.
Who's manipulating you? But here's a question:
You're scum and think one of the leading wagons is scum from the other team/QT. How do you treat that?
Who's manipulating you? But here's a question:
You're scum and think one of the leading wagons is scum from the other team/QT. How do you treat that?
Well. We still have like 5 days--at the same time I think there's already been a ton that's happened today: the massclaim, ADK's and my fight, etc. So ending it now is fine.
Eh. His role doesn't look super strong...should I hammer?
Well faust isn't happening right now. I'm going to vote: ADK as well. I thought your case on him was good--and I felt he was really scummy when we were fighting.
PPE: 1
so, ADk, was
- fighting (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.msg468233#msg468233) the massclaim (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.msg468293#msg468293)
- voting for XP (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.msg468239#msg468239) because he claimed
- overjustifies (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.msg468246#msg468246) his actions
- says Ichi has a super towny role (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.0;all), but then he votes Ichi (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.msg469354#msg469354) after he makes a good post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.msg469345#msg469345), and then there is this huge (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.msg469374#msg469374) fight (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.msg469461#msg469461) with him (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.msg469502#msg469502).
- then there's the town slip reaction (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.msg469523#msg469523)
well and now he put Hydrad at L-2 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.msg469957#msg469957) put unvoted in the same post because Hydrad... made a response?
well, a lot of that isn't necessarily scummy. but it seems different from how he usually plays.
For now, I still like my vote on Hydrad
Vote however you want to. I hereby give you permission.
You don't say how my reaction to Ichi's alleged townslip is scummy, you just point it out, so I'm not sure what I'm supposed to say to that.
SS is odd saying the Hydrad lynch was going too easily. It stalled, in fact, so it's the opposite of easy.
Another odd post by silverspawn.
SS is odd saying the Hydrad lynch was going too easily. It stalled, in fact, so it's the opposite of easy.
Another odd post by silverspawn.
I don't think reaching L-1 in a few hours on day 1 and then almost being hammered is stalling. I think that's going really fast.
The first four votes all together was odd, and definitely notable. The rest of it was at a normal to slow pace, all things considered, and it died out before a lynch could happen.
So no, it was not "too easy" given it didn't succeed.
You could argue that "stalling" is too strong a word, but for the person who actually HELPED the stall (by unvoting when the lynch was actually possible) to be complaining about it is laughable.
It's not really my job to convince you I'm town, and it's probably pointless, but I'll play.
We can also verify my role by just lynching my target tomorrow. That would be cool, but I'm not sure how much utility it would offer.
Plan time. Here's what I think should happen tonight.
2.7 - Henchman
Our protective role. Should target among me/ash/Joseph. Potentially Xerxes. No, not Xerxes, since chairs needs to target him.
A Drowned Kernel - Inventor
This can be used for either double protection (target e), double investigation (target ash or me) or double kill (target Joseph). Double kill might be too risky. Double investigation is probably best.
ashersky - Blind Follower
Well, ash should just target whoever he finds scummiest. (or not, but you know... ash know how to play this role I think)
Hydrad - Detective
This role is good in scum hands, and does little for us. He should probably target e, that gives us the most information.
Awaclus - Pickpocket
Plan time. Awaclus needs to announce his target. Not one of the investigative roles.
XerxesPraelor - Therapist
Xerxes targets [Awaclus' target] and redirects to someone he chooses. Tomorrow, everyone claims whether or not they have been pickpocketed (they should learn this if I remember Awaclus' role correctly). We might catch scum.
Faust - Role Watcher
Basically, I check that everyone does as planned. I'll investigate somewhere.
Joseph2302 - Poisoner
I think he does the Poisoning? I mean it dangerous, but potentially really good.
silverspawn - Regulator
silver: Do you count as targeting every of the n players you choose? silver's role has the most potential to interfere with our plans if use by scum, so we might want to direct it. Roleblock Hydrad against some players sounds good.
Witherweaver - Governor
Strange role. Don't use it at all I guess?
chairs - Mailman
Should send a message to Xerxes containing his target for the following night. Should contain at least 3 names, so that he can move down the list if people die.
Ichimaru Gin - Blackmailer
Well, how to use this? Scum!Ichi can just tell us names different from the ones he actually chose for lynching if he wants it to fail. Meh. Can't we just lynch Ichi?
I kind of want to lynch Hydrad. Also, what's up with noone responding to my plan post? Do you all agree? Then Awaclus needs to say who he is going to target.
I kind of want to lynch Hydrad. Also, what's up with noone responding to my plan post? Do you all agree? Then Awaclus needs to say who he is going to target.
Does it matter who I'm going to target or can I choose someone arbitrarily?
We can also verify my role by just lynching my target tomorrow. That would be cool, but I'm not sure how much utility it would offer.
Yeah, cool. And then he suddenly dies and you say "oh, I must have been roleblocked!" And the worst thing is, that could actually be true. No I don't think you should use your power at all.
It's not really my job to convince you I'm town, and it's probably pointless, but I'll play.
Whose job is it to convince us you're town if not yours?
Ichi considering a quick lynch there doesn't make me feel better about him.Wow. I just can't win with you can I?
Ichi considering a quick lynch there doesn't make me feel better about him.Wow. I just can't win with you can I?
Of course you'd never consider that I threw that out there to see people's reactions to it.
I'm not complaining. That word seems to get tossed around a lot this game. I just think your reaction is scummy. Who else do you want to lynch today besides me?Ichi considering a quick lynch there doesn't make me feel better about him.Wow. I just can't win with you can I?
Of course you'd never consider that I threw that out there to see people's reactions to it.
So you threw it out there to get reactions, and now you complain because I react?
You didn't hammer in the end, which is at least something I guess. I'd definitely find you much scummier if you had actually hammered.
Man, if either ichi or Faust is scum, they both are.?
Man, if either ichi or Faust is scum, they both are.Weakly agree with this, whole argument has been a bit odd. Ichi isn't feeling scummy to me, so I'm thinking town/town for now.
Whose odd behavior?
Mine? His? Both?
I'm okay with him.. I like Hydrad a little bit more. Why did you want to leave Hydrad?
I'm town and I don't really see how Ash's argument about mine and faust's alignments makes sense. It looks like partnerish to me.
I'm town and I don't really see how Ash's argument about mine and faust's alignments makes sense. It looks like partnerish to me.
I'm confused about what you are confused about.
The way you two have been going on, manipulating forum space and attention for way too long with your fight, is either stubborn and annoying town (SaAT) versus stubborn and annoying town (SaAT) OR staged as scum to gain town cred as if you were SaAT vs. SaAT.
That's how it looks to an outsider.
I mean, no one (and really, I mean NO ONE) tunnels someone like you are tunneling faust. What the heck? It's day 1 dude. No one is that certain of anything this early in a game unless they are 1) scum, or 2) N0 cop.
So, I have to come up with your motivation. And that leaves me with "staged for the purpose of gaining towncred" or "man he's just really being silly stubborn for shits and giggles."
I mean, no one (and really, I mean NO ONE) tunnels someone like you are tunneling faust. What the heck? It's day 1 dude. No one is that certain of anything this early in a game unless they are 1) scum, or 2) N0 cop.
I mean, no one (and really, I mean NO ONE) tunnels someone like you are tunneling faust. What the heck? It's day 1 dude. No one is that certain of anything this early in a game unless they are 1) scum, or 2) N0 cop.
ahm. ASoIaFM. you. pacovf.
I mean, no one (and really, I mean NO ONE) tunnels someone like you are tunneling faust. What the heck? It's day 1 dude. No one is that certain of anything this early in a game unless they are 1) scum, or 2) N0 cop.
ahm. ASoIaFM. you. pacovf.
Did I even play that game?
I mean, no one (and really, I mean NO ONE) tunnels someone like you are tunneling faust. What the heck? It's day 1 dude. No one is that certain of anything this early in a game unless they are 1) scum, or 2) N0 cop.
ahm. ASoIaFM. you. pacovf.
Did I even play that game?
Do you mean the one with the Dice Plan vs. Color Plan? That wasn't tunneling -- that was a huge disagreement on plan. I don't recall trying to get him lynched over it.
faust tunneled me first--I'm not even voting for him right now. He has kept his vote on me and refused to move it. Why is it impossible for scum!faust to be the one tunneling me and me just being my normal self? And yeah, I do tunnel people this way--especially after what happened in Musical Mafia.I'm town and I don't really see how Ash's argument about mine and faust's alignments makes sense. It looks like partnerish to me.
I'm confused about what you are confused about.
The way you two have been going on, manipulating forum space and attention for way too long with your fight, is either stubborn and annoying town (SaAT) versus stubborn and annoying town (SaAT) OR staged as scum to gain town cred as if you were SaAT vs. SaAT.
That's how it looks to an outsider.
I mean, no one (and really, I mean NO ONE) tunnels someone like you are tunneling faust. What the heck? It's day 1 dude. No one is that certain of anything this early in a game unless they are 1) scum, or 2) N0 cop.
So, I have to come up with your motivation. And that leaves me with "staged for the purpose of gaining towncred" or "man he's just really being silly stubborn for shits and giggles."
Also. It feels like you're purposefully exaggerating how much "space" or whatever mine and faust's argument was. We didn't directly argue much at all actually. Certainly less than ADK and I.
I don't like how you and WW sit back from each of these arguments and are both like "oh, you must be partners together". Declaring we're both the same alignment is an easy way for scum to avoid taking sides--and being held responsible.
PPE: 1
faust tunneled me first--I'm not even voting for him right now. He has kept his vote on me and refused to move it. Why is it impossible for scum!faust to be the one tunneling me and me just being my normal self? And yeah, I do tunnel people this way--especially after what happened in Musical Mafia.
PPEs: like 4
Does anyone else want to lynch e? It feels like he's gotten very little attention, and said relatively little, in all of this.There's too many people I find scummy!
PPE: I'm not wholly opposed to lynching Hydrad.
Um. Kind of both I guess?PPE: I'm not wholly opposed to lynching Hydrad.
are you still completely serious if you say stuff like that, or are you overplaying your OMGUS'nes for comedy?
faust already did thatOh yeah. I guess faust did. I guess I wasn't really paying attention to it since he didn't actually say anything useful about my role.
Um. Kind of both I guess?PPE: I'm not wholly opposed to lynching Hydrad.
are you still completely serious if you say stuff like that, or are you overplaying your OMGUS'nes for comedy?
It's not really specifically that Hydrad is considering voting me now, but that he's flipping back and forth a bunch--and it's not really clear what is causing him to change his mind.
Man I'm liking voting Hydrad better than ever. His wagon stalled, that obviously means he's scum, everyone vote for him right now.
Man I'm liking voting Hydrad better than ever. His wagon stalled, that obviously means he's scum, everyone vote for him right now.
Hydrad doesn't seem very invested in this game. I'm not sure if that's a scum trait though.
And then died like a fish out of water. You know who's nervous about wagons going through too quickly? Scum who's trying to figure out who their partners are. So who let the Hydrad wagon die?... well, I guess that would be silverspawn.
So hey, vote: silverspawn
You could be one of those people. What would you like to discuss? Who do you think is scummy?
Well. We still have like 5 days--at the same time I think there's already been a ton that's happened today: the massclaim, ADK's and my fight, etc. So ending it now is fine.
Eh. His role doesn't look super strong...should I hammer?
uh, no? why would you want to hammer.
you seem to be nervous about this lynch though. which by the way is going a little bit too easily. Although I guess with two different scum pairings that's less of a tell than normal.
let's try something else. unvote
vote: ADK
Post count 1.0
chairs-16
Joseph2302-16
Awaclus-13
Post count 1.0
chairs-16
Joseph2302-16
Awaclus-13
So yeah, this. joseph should probably be left alive, but I think I'd be fine lynching chairs or awaclus. Especially awaclus, in my experience he doesn't tend to lurk as town.
I'm fairly certain Awaclus tends to lurk in general. Also, I think we can do much better than a lurker lynch with what's happened so far.
PPE: chairs!
Post count 1.0
chairs-16
Joseph2302-16
Awaclus-13
So yeah, this. joseph should probably be left alive, but I think I'd be fine lynching chairs or awaclus. Especially awaclus, in my experience he doesn't tend to lurk as town.
That's would be a good point, if you weren't the one making it.
Do you mean you don't think he's lurking this game--or I'm mistaken that he tends to lurk a bit?
PPE: 1
Do you mean you don't think he's lurking this game--or I'm mistaken that he tends to lurk a bit?
PPE: 1
No, it was where you thought he scumslipped in the House QT.
Man I'm liking voting Hydrad better than ever. His wagon stalled, that obviously means he's scum, everyone vote for him right now.
Do you mean you don't think he's lurking this game--or I'm mistaken that he tends to lurk a bit?
PPE: 1
He's obviously lurking in this game. I don't think he tends to lurk
Do you mean you don't think he's lurking this game--or I'm mistaken that he tends to lurk a bit?
PPE: 1
He's obviously lurking in this game. I don't think he tends to lurk
I could lynch whoever you are talking about.
See, I say it stalled and people go nutso about it. ADK says it and it gets a little shoulder shrug. Yeesh.I don't think it makes any more sense coming form ADK, I was just not in the mood for a similar response.
I'm a Pickpocket. Every night, I can target someone to steal their results, i.e. if they would have received any results thanks to their role, they'll receive No Result instead and I will receive whatever that result was. If not, they will be told that someone tried to pickpocket them.
Ok. Then who do you want to lynch tomorrow?
awaclus - dont use?
Faust's analysis looks scummier than anything I've seen in a long time.
I think ash would be part of a different partner pair if he's scum, Hydrad's reaction is more what I would expect a partner to act like.
faust tunneled me first--I'm not even voting for him right now. He has kept his vote on me and refused to move it. Why is it impossible for scum!faust to be the one tunneling me and me just being my normal self? And yeah, I do tunnel people this way--especially after what happened in Musical Mafia.
PPEs: like 4
Does anyone else want to lynch e? It feels like he's gotten very little attention, and said relatively little, in all of this.
Hey so thinking we should plan with some of these powers so I'm going to try and get it started.
2.7 - He can do who he feels like I guess?
ADK - We could double Joesph and start trying to find scum.
asher - target who he wants
XP - sit around for now?
Me - Target e?
awaclus - dont use?
Faust - hmm target a good PR. maybe e?
Joesph - We pick? I think we could use this as a second lynch.
SS - don't use?
WW - he could use this on someone and we could test?
chairs - mail XP to set up a night 2 cop thing?
IG - seems to risky? don't use?
Thats my brief analysis of these powers.
faust already did thatOh yeah. I guess faust did. I guess I wasn't really paying attention to it since he didn't actually say anything useful about my role.
So should I use my power tonight?
I feel super confident in my reads--less so that people are going to sheep me so someone can get protected tomorrow night. I had mentioned earlier I thought it would be a good idea for people to pick one person they'd like to lynch tomorrow, so at least one of my lynch choices is likely to go through. Otherwise, I'm ok with not using my power since it's probably more hurtful than helpful if we don't lynch one of the people I pick tomorrow.
Anybody have thoughts of possible pairings based on behavior today? Maybe some folks seem too married up? Too distanced? Too much fighting?
Anyway, some possible partner reads:
Ichi - Faust
Hydrad - XP
SS - ADK
I mean, if we wanted to lynch an anti-town role, I think Awaclus makes a good target. If we want to lynch scum I am not really sure.
So should I use my power tonight?
I feel super confident in my reads--less so that people are going to sheep me so someone can get protected tomorrow night. I had mentioned earlier I thought it would be a good idea for people to pick one person they'd like to lynch tomorrow, so at least one of my lynch choices is likely to go through. Otherwise, I'm ok with not using my power since it's probably more hurtful than helpful if we don't lynch one of the people I pick tomorrow.
Anybody have thoughts of possible pairings based on behavior today? Maybe some folks seem too married up? Too distanced? Too much fighting?
Anyway, some possible partner reads:
Ichi - Faust
Hydrad - XP
SS - ADK
I have a question for Ichi, no one answer for him please.Going to class soon, but I have time to answer this.
Before ash corrected you, how did you think that the setup worked?
Look. I'm sorry. I'm glad that you seem to be considering other places for your vote.faust already did thatOh yeah. I guess faust did. I guess I wasn't really paying attention to it since he didn't actually say anything useful about my role.
Can you stop being dickish already? It not my fault that you have a role that's hard to use for coordination purposes.
I have a question for Ichi, no one answer for him please.Going to class soon, but I have time to answer this.
Before ash corrected you, how did you think that the setup worked?
I thought it was a straight up multiball with 2 different mafia factions that didn't have the same wincon like a red mafia and blue mafia or something.
Anybody have thoughts of possible pairings based on behavior today? Maybe some folks seem too married up? Too distanced? Too much fighting?
Anyway, some possible partner reads:
Ichi - Faust
Hydrad - XP
SS - ADK
SS-Hydrad seems like a possibility. ash-one of the lurkers seems plausible too.
Okay then.
Anybody have thoughts of possible pairings based on behavior today? Maybe some folks seem too married up? Too distanced? Too much fighting?
Anyway, some possible partner reads:
Ichi - Faust
Hydrad - XP
SS - ADK
SS-Hydrad seems like a possibility. ash-one of the lurkers seems plausible too.
Another thing that's occurred to me: It's a bit of a conspiracy theory but there might be a possibility that faust and ash are a scum team. They were the ones that were pushing for massclaim initially, if I recall, and they both have claimed roles that can verify other people's powers. It might be possible that they planned the whole thing ahead of time, so they could both fake claim investigative roles while making it harder to get caught in a lie. I don't know, I'll have to go back and look at how exactly it went down.
ADK feels townie overall. I feel like he's less into things as scum.
ADK feels townie overall. I feel like he's less into things as scum.
+ confirmable super pro-town role. Really don't understand the votes there.
Anybody have thoughts of possible pairings based on behavior today? Maybe some folks seem too married up? Too distanced? Too much fighting?
Anyway, some possible partner reads:
Ichi - Faust
Hydrad - XP
SS - ADK
SS-Hydrad seems like a possibility. ash-one of the lurkers seems plausible too.
Another thing that's occurred to me: It's a bit of a conspiracy theory but there might be a possibility that faust and ash are a scum team. They were the ones that were pushing for massclaim initially, if I recall, and they both have claimed roles that can verify other people's powers. It might be possible that they planned the whole thing ahead of time, so they could both fake claim investigative roles while making it harder to get caught in a lie. I don't know, I'll have to go back and look at how exactly it went down.
Well, of course for that you'd have to believe that town has no investigative role, right?
You mean besides Hydrad's?
It's also possible someone could have withheld part of their role.
Post count 1.0I know I've been low on posts, I've been busy, sorry. No more planned absences. chairs is usually low on post counts, seems more of a busy trait than a scum trait.
Ichimaru Gin-85
silverspawn-68
A Drowned Kernel-67
Witherweaver-66
faust-62
ashersky-37
Hydrad-30
XerxesPraelor-30
2.7-23
chairs-16
Joseph2302-16
Awaclus-13
I always lurk in RMMs.Seems true enough, so no real scum read there.
Ok. Then who do you want to lynch tomorrow?Surely we should decide for today first?
... Yeah.I can accept this too.
If I were scum with my role, I wouldn't have mentioned the 2nd clause of my role. Think scum probably have clauses they've kept hidden.It's also possible someone could have withheld part of their role.
Well, you would be my top guess.
So my plan is to poison, but not currently sure who. I still think I like my vote on Hydrad, can't see anyone better to put it on.
I don't think ADK is particularly townie. Also, it's important to note all the people that were around before Ash corrected my misconception. ADK was most certainly around and didn't correct me (or others that thought the same).
ADK posted right after I made my statement about a multiball and didn't say anything about it. Just things to think about.
From outside my point of view I see three options for those that didn't correct my misconception.
1. They're my partner--they shared the misconception and/or this was planned (I don't see why though).
2. They were also confused--I see this as much more likely to come from town.
3. They knew I was wrong and chose not to correct me. I only see this making sense for scum.
So ADK is making me reiterate these statements confirming my confusion. Why, though? And if he was so much more informed about the setup at that time and knew I was wrong, why didn't he say anything?
3. They knew I was wrong and chose not to correct me. I only see this making sense for scum.
It makes more sense for scum than town. Why would they go out of their way to correct my misconception when others went along with it? Sure, it'd be figured out eventually, but I at least, was operating under a false idea until Ash showed up.3. They knew I was wrong and chose not to correct me. I only see this making sense for scum.
How is this making sense for scum? I mean, it's not like we weren't bound to find out eventually.
I think anyone trying to push the multiball mindset on this game is scummy because it is purposefully misleading. It is trying to get us thinking about scum in the wrong way, which will lead us down incorrect lines of reasoning.So yeah, I don't see why scum would correct me.
Are you talking to me?I'm talking to faust.
Look. I'm sorry. I'm glad that you seem to be considering other places for your vote.faust already did thatOh yeah. I guess faust did. I guess I wasn't really paying attention to it since he didn't actually say anything useful about my role.
Can you stop being dickish already? It not my fault that you have a role that's hard to use for coordination purposes.
On the whole, I agree with your analysis and am fine with people following your night action plan. Despite ADK's efforts to paint me, I never really had any trouble with your overall plan or analysis--just your unexplained vote on me. And so far those that have responded the my question seem to mostly to think I shouldn't use my role--and I'm OK with that.
phone post
It makes more sense for scum than town. Why would they go out of their way to correct my misconception when others went along with it? Sure, it'd be figured out eventually, but I at least, was operating under a false idea until Ash showed up.3. They knew I was wrong and chose not to correct me. I only see this making sense for scum.
How is this making sense for scum? I mean, it's not like we weren't bound to find out eventually.
From your point of view, them correcting me doesn't give them any town credit either. So my question is more, why would scum correct me?
Also. I don't know if you missed my response to you, or just didn't want to respond to it. Either way, it's all good.
I still don't trust you at all though. This last question also feels insincere. Why would scum go out of the way to correct town's misconception? It feels like you're playing devil's advocate
I can accept that. Also on a general note, I think this massclaim has been interesting. It remains to be seen if it really works out--but it's nice to do something different every once and a while.Also. I don't know if you missed my response to you, or just didn't want to respond to it. Either way, it's all good.
I still don't trust you at all though. This last question also feels insincere. Why would scum go out of the way to correct town's misconception? It feels like you're playing devil's advocate
Trust me or not, but even if ADK and I were both scum, the chances that I know ADK's my partner are only 1/3, so I think you should assume that people actually believe what they say from time to time instead of looking for partner narratives everywhere.
As someone noted, day ends on the weekend, when I am much less available.
I'll get a vote down today to be sure.
I can accept that. Also on a general note, I think this massclaim has been interesting. It remains to be seen if it really works out--but it's nice to do something different every once and a while.
PPE: 2
So, any thoughts on who I should poison?
So, any thoughts on who I should poison?Okay, I guess I should choose the person I find scummiest. This makes sense, right?
So, any thoughts on who I should poison?Okay, I guess I should choose the person I find scummiest. This makes sense, right?
I'll just post a bit so you can use my info to win the game later and then I get MVP somehow
Redirect Awalcus somewhere is what you said. Who's awalcus's target?
That was hammer, right?Yep
Also I felt like this was normal towny me as I was actually able to scum hunt and make my reads honest.
First time day 1 lynch for me I think.
I'm officially declaring myself an IC!
I'm officially declaring myself an IC!
But you can't! you could just be other scum team! bwahahaha
Well either way this was interesting. I'm curious to see if the massclaim thing picks up. Its probably my weakness as I can never think of good things to fakeclaim.
You are a Detective. Each night, you may target one player and investigate whether or not they’ve been attacked over the course of the game (including that night). You will receive results back in the form of “Has been Attacked” or “Hasn't been attacked”. You will receive No Result if your action is blocked.
You are a Therapist. Each night, you may target a player and then another. All Attacks that have affected the first target (including past attacks), will be moved to the second player. This action will fail if the player you target second is Mafia-aligned.
Okay. We need to find out whom Xerxes found scummiest. Awaclus did end up targeting chairs, meaning the redirection failed.uh ... ... ? I thought Awaclus steals investigative results. Why should he target chairs? Also, how do you know this?
So is the only way this could have happened is both scumteams going for XP then? Cause that seems kind of unlikely.no, there could also be a killing role we don't know of. The setup is closed.
Uh, Joseph claimed a killing role, right?
Okay. We need to find out whom Xerxes found scummiest. Awaclus did end up targeting chairs, meaning the redirection failed.uh ... ... ? I thought Awaclus steals investigative results. Why should he target chairs? Also, how do you know this?
Well I have something.
I had the opportunity to use Hydrad's power last night. I have no idea why.. mid night I got a message saying that I could use it. So I did. I targeted someone and found out whether or not they have been attacked.
However... I'm not sure if it at all helps us for me to say who I targeted and if they have been attacked. It seems much better for scum to have this info.
right, vote: ADK
I don't know if he's Hydrad's partner but I'm pretty sure he's scum.
so, doesn't anyone want to comment on the claiming thing?
so, doesn't anyone want to comment on the claiming thing?
People should claim if they have something interesting to claim, otherwise keep quiet.
Well I have something.
I had the opportunity to use Hydrad's power last night. I have no idea why.. mid night I got a message saying that I could use it. So I did. I targeted someone and found out whether or not they have been attacked.
However... I'm not sure if it at all helps us for me to say who I targeted and if they have been attacked. It seems much better for scum to have this info.
Okay. We need to find out whom Xerxes found scummiest. Awaclus did end up targeting chairs, meaning the redirection failed.uh ... ... ? I thought Awaclus steals investigative results. Why should he target chairs? Also, how do you know this?
You're either bad at reading or bad at remembering.
Well I have something.
I had the opportunity to use Hydrad's power last night. I have no idea why.. mid night I got a message saying that I could use it. So I did. I targeted someone and found out whether or not they have been attacked.
However... I'm not sure if it at all helps us for me to say who I targeted and if they have been attacked. It seems much better for scum to have this info.
Unless I'm completely off-base here, or there's an unexpected killing/attacking role that someone didn't claim (say, a Vigilante), XP was targetted by both Mafia teams and therefore nobody else could possibly have been attacked. I think if you found out someone else had been attacked that would actually be really -really- interesting because it means that someone out there who isn't one of the Mafia teams can either attack or kill someone, and chose to use that power last night.
Ichimaru Gin: Hedges on Hydrad a fair amount. There's some interesting interaction with SS warning him off the wagon and accusing him of trying to distract from it. He isn't on the final wagon, he says he thinks Hydrad's scummy a bunch of times and basically tells someone to hammer him. Is this how Ichi treats his partners? I'm thinking not.
Checking in to see what is happening. If you guys want me to claim that is fine, but I don't have anything interesting to share. I haven't been able to think too much about all that has happened (see VLA thread), but will check back in and can answer questions and stuff. My girlfiriend flies back on Tuesday, and I will be able to concentrate more on the game
ADK - IG - 2.7 - ash - chairs - silver - Awaclus - Joseph - WW - Xerxes - faust
Oops. vote: ADK
Looking at Xerxes' reads.
#80 votes ADK
#118 votes Ichi after his claim
#262 calls my analysis "manipulative". Votes for me.
#401 votes Hydrad
#538 says silver, IG, WW are all "making sense".
#539 Says he's okay with ADK
#544 I'm not quite sure what this is referring to. Does Xerxes suggest I'm Hydrad's partner?
Aaand... that's it. Well, this doesn't really look good for me, does it? Here's the player list:
2.7 - Xerxes never talks about him. Has been off wagon, so he would make sense as an investigation target.
A Drowned Kernel - very likely indeed. Xerxes seems to have a bit of a scum read. And he was off-wagon.ashersky- redirecting Awaclus to an investigatve role would be bad I guess?Awaclus- well, he could have redirected Awaclus to himself. But I'm unsre what would happen then. Does it create an infinite loop? Does it tear the fabric of space and time? I'm not sure I'd risk that.Faust- me- Also, don't redirect to investigative roles applies here.Joseph2302- no waySilverspawn- the making sense comment. Plus he decided Hydrad's fate.Witherweaver- also "making sense", also a supporter of the Hydrad wagon
chairs - Redirecting to chairs is an interesting way for Xerxes to ensure he's not being manipulated.
Ichimaru Gin - less likely due to "making sense", but he was off-wagon.
Yeah, vote: ADK[/s]
a) You don't think that XP getting killed had more to do with his role? Especially since it required both scum teams to independently decide to kill him?
b) Yes, I was off wagon, but I was voting for Hydrad and pushing the wagon for a lot of the day, and only switched away when the wagon was stalling hardcore. Voting for me makes zero sense.
I'm not sure how you reach this chain. Either you go with off-wagon first, but then you have to put yourself before chairs, or you go with lie detecting last, but then you'd have to claim way later. Also, I'm not sure ADK/Ichi should claim their targets at all (maybe Ichi claims his list of lynchees, but not the Doc target), since their roles both have effect on N2.I did both. I am on wagon; so why put me before chairs? and I only counted you as a lie detector.
Why would we not claim?
so, doesn't anyone want to comment on the claiming thing?
People should claim if they have something interesting to claim, otherwise keep quiet.
Gotta say I'm a bit wary of WW... the whole "he got to use Hydrad's power" is scummy. I'd actually like to know whom he targeted with it.
It seems quite the Deus ex Machina if you get to use your dead partner's power one more time.
Gotta say I'm a bit wary of WW... the whole "he got to use Hydrad's power" is scummy. I'd actually like to know whom he targeted with it.
It seems quite the Deus ex Machina if you get to use your dead partner's power one more time.
Why bring it up? Because I'm afraid of being tracked?
I don't have any issues saying who I targeted with it. But it's not good to give the teams notice of whether the other team has targetted this person or not.
And also, this kind of assumes I'd be Hydrad's partner.. don't you consider that contingency to be of, like, minimal likelihood?
You're not being useful.
Noted.Ichimaru Gin: Hedges on Hydrad a fair amount. There's some interesting interaction with SS warning him off the wagon and accusing him of trying to distract from it. He isn't on the final wagon, he says he thinks Hydrad's scummy a bunch of times and basically tells someone to hammer him. Is this how Ichi treats his partners? I'm thinking not.
I appreciate the analysis, but it does feel rather odd to preemptively defend yourself in a list like this.
I used my power on Joseph last night.
Because what's the actual benefit of it?
How would it tell you that?
It's not impossible.
You're not being useful.
Can anyone verify that ADK targeted Joseph?
Can anyone verify that ADK targeted Joseph?I can verify that ADK targetted me.
Can anyone verify that ADK targeted Joseph?I can verify that ADK targetted me.
Got PM saying that I had received the ability that ADK mentioned. I assume it was ADK who had given me the power.Can anyone verify that ADK targeted Joseph?I can verify that ADK targetted me.
What?? How?
Got PM saying that I had received the ability that ADK mentioned. I assume it was ADK who had given me the power.Can anyone verify that ADK targeted Joseph?I can verify that ADK targetted me.
What?? How?
Got PM saying that I had received the ability that ADK mentioned. I assume it was ADK who had given me the power.Can anyone verify that ADK targeted Joseph?I can verify that ADK targetted me.
What?? How?
A Drowned Kernel - Inventor (target player, next night he can use his Action twice)
I'd like to remain on the record as having been against this, but since this is what people want:
I am an Inventor. Each night I can give another player a duplicator. The following night, they can use their role twice.
1 shot-Duplicator: At night, you may spend this to use any Role twice.
I tried to poison XP. However, he died, so I must have been roleblocked.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the only role listed that would stop me poisoning XP is silverspawn's. So either, scum has fakeclaimed their role, or silverspawn is scum. (Or my logic is wrong)
I'm a weak poisoner. I poison people one night, they die the next night. Except if the person I poison gets attacked, they don't die.
I mailed XP asking him to mail me back who he wanted me to mail on N2.
And why would you poison XP?XP's role looked like it had very little town utility, so I thought he was scum.
Wait, no, Joseph's claims needs verification.Just to clarify, my role means if that person gets attacked (on the night I poison them, or the one after), then the poison stops them being killed. Basically, I make them 1-shot Bulletproof. The flavour idea is that if I poison them and scum stabs them, then the stab causes the poison to leave them, so they don't die.
"Except if the person I poison gets attacked, they don't die."
They don't die by whom?
And why would you poison XP?XP's role looked like it had very little town utility, so I thought he was scum.
Yes. I was busy/ill during N1, so thought less thoroughly than I wanted to, but it seemed like a decent option.And why would you poison XP?XP's role looked like it had very little town utility, so I thought he was scum.
Did you even read during D1?
I mailed XP asking him to mail me back who he wanted me to mail on N2.
People can mail you back?
chairs - can you confirm that Awaclus targeted you?
okay, this is interesting. I did actually target Joseph tonight - but I didn't name XP, so it should not have stopped him (reminder, I can only roleblock against a number of people, in this case 3). I named faust, IG, and myself.
and before anyone asks, I chose to do this because
1) I didn't want to be poisoned
2) my power isn't actually that great
3) IG and faust are my biggest town reads, and I think poisoning them would have been a mistake, but I could see Joseph doing it
4) I'm not actually convinced Joseph is town based on his role. I could easily see him being scum with an X-shot modifier to his poisoning, and as an alternative to his attack
needless to say, my power shouldn't have changed anything tonight, as I did not name XP.
Sounds scummy.
Sounds scummy.
no it doesn't. what's scummy about it?
Sounds scummy.
no it doesn't. what's scummy about it?
I agree with silverspawn. I think he used his power in the most pro-town way that he could think of. Sure, a bit selfish, but I don't fault him for that. I think scum is more likely to try to play of the self-sacrificial for the benefit of town act.
Yes I did. As a result, I'm hated for today only. (I was waiting for mod permission to reveal this)1 shot-Duplicator: At night, you may spend this to use any Role twice.
I'm pretty sure you just violated a rule of this game.
Yes I did. As a result, I'm hated for today only. (I was waiting for mod permission to reveal this)1 shot-Duplicator: At night, you may spend this to use any Role twice.
I'm pretty sure you just violated a rule of this game.
It's pretty likely that one of Joseph/silver is lying IMO, and I think it's silver.
I don't have a problem with him using his power to protect himself and his town reads. Admitting that he targeted Joseph without naming XP is what sounds suspicious, because it's exactly what scum who actually roleblocked Joseph tonight would claim.
I think those actions would be pro-town, but he could have made them up. I really wanted silverspawn to claim before me, but unfortunately, it didn't look to be happening.Sounds scummy.
no it doesn't. what's scummy about it?
I agree with silverspawn. I think he used his power in the most pro-town way that he could think of. Sure, a bit selfish, but I don't fault him for that. I think scum is more likely to try to play of the self-sacrificial for the benefit of town act.
I don't have a problem with him using his power to protect himself and his town reads. Admitting that he targeted Joseph without naming XP is what sounds suspicious, because it's exactly what scum who actually roleblocked Joseph tonight would claim.
I don't get this. why should I name XP?
It's pretty likely that one of Joseph/silver is lying IMO, and I think it's silver.
why?
I don't have a problem with him using his power to protect himself and his town reads. Admitting that he targeted Joseph without naming XP is what sounds suspicious, because it's exactly what scum who actually roleblocked Joseph tonight would claim.
I don't get this. why should I name XP?
I don't have a problem with him using his power to protect himself and his town reads. Admitting that he targeted Joseph without naming XP is what sounds suspicious, because it's exactly what scum who actually roleblocked Joseph tonight would claim.
I don't get this. why should I name XP?
You came up with the XP plan. I'd think you kind of want him alive so that it goes through.
It's pretty likely that one of Joseph/silver is lying IMO, and I think it's silver.
why?
Well, if not, someone lied about their role. I'm thinking of a plan to out any liars.
As far as the Joseph poison thing. My initial understanding of his power was that scum attacking a player would negate both poison and attack. However, if Joseph is telling the truth, then I think it is probably just an attack negates poison, but poison does not negate the attack. So XP still died because he was attacked twice.
Joseph, is that correct?
maybe Joseph just messed up explaining his role?
I don't have a problem with him using his power to protect himself and his town reads. Admitting that he targeted Joseph without naming XP is what sounds suspicious, because it's exactly what scum who actually roleblocked Joseph tonight would claim.
I don't get this. why should I name XP?
I'm not arguing that town!you should have done something different. I'm arguing that this is exactly what scum!you should claim, and that's why the claim is suspicious.
And why would you poison XP?XP's role looked like it had very little town utility, so I thought he was scum.Wait, no, Joseph's claims needs verification.Just to clarify, my role means if that person gets attacked (on the night I poison them, or the one after), then the poison stops them being killed. Basically, I make them 1-shot Bulletproof. The flavour idea is that if I poison them and scum stabs them, then the stab causes the poison to leave them, so they don't die.
"Except if the person I poison gets attacked, they don't die."
They don't die by whom?
So as XP was attacked, then as I poisoned XP, he shouldn't have been killed.
Which means someone must have stopped me attacking XP.
This is pretty unambiguous I think.
Reading is hard. Both are true, but I hadn't considered the 2nd option.I don't have a problem with him using his power to protect himself and his town reads. Admitting that he targeted Joseph without naming XP is what sounds suspicious, because it's exactly what scum who actually roleblocked Joseph tonight would claim.
I don't get this. why should I name XP?
You came up with the XP plan. I'd think you kind of want him alive so that it goes through.
well I wasn't expecting Joseph to poison XP...It's pretty likely that one of Joseph/silver is lying IMO, and I think it's silver.
why?
Well, if not, someone lied about their role. I'm thinking of a plan to out any liars.
what about this:As far as the Joseph poison thing. My initial understanding of his power was that scum attacking a player would negate both poison and attack. However, if Joseph is telling the truth, then I think it is probably just an attack negates poison, but poison does not negate the attack. So XP still died because he was attacked twice.
Joseph, is that correct?
maybe Joseph just messed up explaining his role?
Joseph, confirm that please. Does poison indeed stop attacking, or just vice versa, or both?
I don't think so:
"You are a Therapist. Each night, you may target a player and then another. All Attacks that have affected the first target (including past attacks), will be moved to the second player. This action will fail if the player you target second is Mafia-aligned."
Did anyone claim Pickpocket?
Did anyone claim Pickpocket?
What about your claim?
e, who was your target?
Why?
Actually Awaclus said he didn't care, so we need only one more for massclaim to get a majority. Then we can push everyone who refuses to participate to L-1 to get them to claim. It'll be fun!Eh. I'm considering changing my stance on massclaiming. Scum might have anti-town or obviously scum PR's and will have to make something up--which might incriminate them. My power is...strange and I would actually appreciate input on how to use it to the best advantage.
Yeah. So actually put me down as vote: massclaim although I'm normally against this sort of thing.
kk.
I am the Town Blackmailer. And my power is kind of different. It basically revolves around me picking one person to target--and then naming several other people and if any of those people I name gets lynched, my target is protected from attacks for the following night.
Plus, my ability isn't like super useful and could be helped by coordination of town to decide who to lynch.
At some point, I think it would be a good idea to collectively decide one of my chosen lynches for tomorrow. Not everyone agrees with my reads, so I don't want to become useless and/or hurt my target just because people won't listen to me. SS is not in my lynch pool for now though.
So should I use my power tonight?
I feel super confident in my reads--less so that people are going to sheep me so someone can get protected tomorrow night. I had mentioned earlier I thought it would be a good idea for people to pick one person they'd like to lynch tomorrow, so at least one of my lynch choices is likely to go through. Otherwise, I'm ok with not using my power since it's probably more hurtful than helpful if we don't lynch one of the people I pick tomorrow.
Noted.Ichimaru Gin: Hedges on Hydrad a fair amount. There's some interesting interaction with SS warning him off the wagon and accusing him of trying to distract from it. He isn't on the final wagon, he says he thinks Hydrad's scummy a bunch of times and basically tells someone to hammer him. Is this how Ichi treats his partners? I'm thinking not.
I appreciate the analysis, but it does feel rather odd to preemptively defend yourself in a list like this.
I did not use my power last night.
I might have a plan for tonight. it involves e dying.
I might have a plan for tonight. it involves e dying.I'm listening, intently.
let's lynch e today. I can't defend myself right now. Your "case" is fluff. please, what's the use of me asking for advice about my role if I'm just going to ignore it?
Ooh Ichi did what he thought was best for town--he must be scum!
phone post.
PPE: 1
my PM says I'm town and a blackmailer--but my name is not actually "town blackmailer" it's just blackmailer.
Man I wish I was at my computer to be able to respond to all these accusations from my biggest scum reads.
ppe:1
Yeah, this feels super disingenuous from Ichi. He's probably scum.whatever. Where are my town reads?
Lynching Ash is not so cool, I was wrong about that.
Yeah, this feels super disingenuous from Ichi. He's probably scum.whatever. Where are my town reads?
Lynching Ash is not so cool, I was wrong about that.
I have no reason for it. it's just what I did.
ppe: 3
Yeah, this feels super disingenuous from Ichi. He's probably scum.whatever. Where are my town reads?
Lynching Ash is not so cool, I was wrong about that.
I'll let you know once someone claims to think you're town.
I could have made up a townier sounding name as scum though--or fake claimed something not easy to verify--so I'm not really seeing what your point is.
because you just accused me of having a hard to verify role. that's why.
I could have made up a townier sounding name as scum though--or fake claimed something not easy to verify--so I'm not really seeing what your point is.
I'm on my phone--so excuse me if it's hard to reply and check the thread at the same time.because you just accused me of having a hard to verify role. that's why.
Causality isn't your strong suit, is it:I could have made up a townier sounding name as scum though--or fake claimed something not easy to verify--so I'm not really seeing what your point is.
Or wait. you'd rather deny the truth and invent stuff instead of taking a moment to check if you're wrong--which you are.
it's in the thread man. and iirc you said "I don't think so" at some point. why wouldn't you just look for it to verify I'm telling the truth instead of acting like because you don't remember it its existence is in doubt?Or wait. you'd rather deny the truth and invent stuff instead of taking a moment to check if you're wrong--which you are.
Man. What the fuck, seriously.
We're not arguing about whether or not your role is verifiable. You said it was. I said, "really"? You said "Yeah, here's why." I said "I don't remember that", because I don't. There's no one in this argument but you.
kk.
I am the Town Blackmailer. And my power is kind of different. It basically revolves around me picking one person to target--and then naming several other people and if any of those people I name gets lynched, my target is protected from attacks for the following night.
Also, forgot to mention. My role can be completely confirmed by whomever I choose as my protection target. They won't be given my name, but they will be told how my ability works.
;DAlso, forgot to mention. My role can be completely confirmed by whomever I choose as my protection target. They won't be given my name, but they will be told how my ability works.
Because this is all so interesting, I did some fact checking and Ichi did in fact claim what he says.
Although it was very hard to find amid the mounds and mounds of OMGUS nonsense that went on D1
Scum might have anti-town or obviously scum PR's and will have to make something up--which might incriminate them.
Wait, so is IG scum or town? I WANT TO KNOW WHETHER TO RABBLE RABBLE PITCHFORK
Scum might have anti-town or obviously scum PR's and will have to make something up--which might incriminate them.
While I was going back and rereading Ichi I looked at this again. I mean, this almost makes me think Ichi is Hydrad's partner. (which we all know is impossible because of the preemptive defense post that Ichi gave us. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.msg471201#msg471201)) Knowing that Hydrad had a detective role (a TOWNIE role) this sets Hydrad up to be town if people had actually listened to what Ichi is saying here.
Scum might have anti-town or obviously scum PR's and will have to make something up--which might incriminate them.
While I was going back and rereading Ichi I looked at this again. I mean, this almost makes me think Ichi is Hydrad's partner. (which we all know is impossible because of the preemptive defense post that Ichi gave us. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.msg471201#msg471201)) Knowing that Hydrad had a detective role (a TOWNIE role) this sets Hydrad up to be town if people had actually listened to what Ichi is saying here.
Sorry I don't follow.
Scum might have anti-town or obviously scum PR's and will have to make something up--which might incriminate them.
While I was going back and rereading Ichi I looked at this again. I mean, this almost makes me think Ichi is Hydrad's partner. (which we all know is impossible because of the preemptive defense post that Ichi gave us. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.msg471201#msg471201)) Knowing that Hydrad had a detective role (a TOWNIE role) this sets Hydrad up to be town if people had actually listened to what Ichi is saying here.
Sorry I don't follow.
There seems to be a suggestion that scum will have scummy roles
Hydrad had a townie role
Hydrad is not scum
Except maybe Joseph's... that itself is suspicious.
Except maybe Joseph's... that itself is suspicious.
I had this thought on D1 while reading, don't know if I posted it.
The scum kills are like poison kills. Well, more like single-target arson kills. But anyway, they are delayed kills which require a trigger (the other half of the scum team also targeting) for them to work, right?
If you want to fake claim a power that covers for your scum factional kill, poisoner is best. Arsonist doesn't work because you can't trigger your own kills. But hey, with poisoner, you claim in thread who you poisoned someone, other half knows who to kill.
Hydrad's role was not townie. Hydrad lets subteam A know if subteam B attacked someone yet, so that subteam A can finish the kill. That's good.This line of thinking makes sense. This is probably how things were balanced against the possibility of a massclaim. People having mixed powers makes it interesting.
Hydrad's role has town utility, though.. as town it lets you verify that someone is less likely to be scum.
All our roles work as both town and scum...
Except maybe Joseph's... that itself is suspicious.
I had this thought on D1 while reading, don't know if I posted it.
The scum kills are like poison kills. Well, more like single-target arson kills. But anyway, they are delayed kills which require a trigger (the other half of the scum team also targeting) for them to work, right?
If you want to fake claim a power that covers for your scum factional kill, poisoner is best. Arsonist doesn't work because you can't trigger your own kills. But hey, with poisoner, you claim in thread who you poisoned someone, other half knows who to kill.
I'm bothered by this:I'm bothered by the fact that you choose to completely ignore (again) the fact that I also later claimed that my target would be given information about my role (which would have made me look townier). And the fact that scum with my abilities would have absolutely no incentive to claim the part about my targets being more vulnerable if one of my picks isn't lynched. We had decided to do the massclaim; I was the first to full claim and didn't know if we were revealing everything about our abilities--since XP hadn't.
Claim 1: I can Doctor people if certain other people get lynched, so hey I'm a Doctor
Claim 2: Oh by the way, if none of those people get lynched, then my target is effectively Attacked for that night.
The downside if your power is actually better than attacking as scum. If you're scum and Attack, then you need the other (unknown) scum to Attack him. But this way either team can Attack for a kill. In particular, your team can, which is particularly high utility.
That's an aside; all our powers seem to have both town and scum utility. (I think this was balance issues.. i think they were constructed so that either scum or town could end up with them.) The part of issue is the two-part claim that initially sells Ichi as a Doctor, which again fits e's narrative of Ichi overly trying to appear townie.
WW, did you ever claim anything regarding your usage of your role?
I'm a little bit confused about the silver <-> Joseph thing. You say one of us is lying - but why? I get the narrative for me to do that, but why should scum!Joseph claim to have targeted XP? That would just get him into danger for no reason. isn't it more likely that an extern source somehow messed with his target?
Vote: IchiYou used the absence of this behavior to manipulate me and get me mislynched in Musical Mafia. And you're grossly exaggerating it. This also hurts my feelings and really makes me hope you're scum.
by the way. Even on the off chance he isn't scum, there isn't anything very useful about a town player who scum hunts exclusively on the basis of who votes for or defends him.
I'm a little bit confused about the silver <-> Joseph thing. You say one of us is lying - but why? I get the narrative for me to do that, but why should scum!Joseph claim to have targeted XP? That would just get him into danger for no reason. isn't it more likely that an extern source somehow messed with his target?
If he targets XP with Scum's faction attack, he's a little obligated to claim he targeted with something.
Vote: IchiYou used the absence of this behavior to manipulate me and get me mislynched in Musical Mafia. And you're grossly exaggerating it. This also hurts my feelings and really makes me hope you're scum.
by the way. Even on the off chance he isn't scum, there isn't anything very useful about a town player who scum hunts exclusively on the basis of who votes for or defends him.
I'm a little bit confused about the silver <-> Joseph thing. You say one of us is lying - but why? I get the narrative for me to do that, but why should scum!Joseph claim to have targeted XP? That would just get him into danger for no reason. isn't it more likely that an extern source somehow messed with his target?
If he targets XP with Scum's faction attack, he's a little obligated to claim he targeted with something.
but that's the thing - he doesn't. the investigative roles that have claimed are
ashersky - Blind Follower (target player, receive type of Action performed)
Hydrad - Detective (target player, receive whether or not he was attacked previously & if he was attacked this night)
Faust - Role Watcher (target player, see all roles that targeted that player that night)
none of them is a watcher in the classical sense - one that sees which players targeted the watcher player. so, there is nothing Joseph gains from lying.
I know that a lot of my reads are OMGUS. Why are you acting as if this is a new thing? I firmly believe that town!me gets singled out by scum as someone safe to tunnel, and I legitimately think most of the cases and people who want me dead are terrible. I've acknowledged good cases on me in the past. It's not as simple as voting for me makes you scum; moreso voting for me for terrible, disingenuous reasons in a fashion that looks overtly manipulative and selective makes me think you're scum. (and of course "you" here is meant in the general sense, not specifically you).Vote: IchiYou used the absence of this behavior to manipulate me and get me mislynched in Musical Mafia. And you're grossly exaggerating it. This also hurts my feelings and really makes me hope you're scum.
by the way. Even on the off chance he isn't scum, there isn't anything very useful about a town player who scum hunts exclusively on the basis of who votes for or defends him.
If you're not scum, honestly go reread yourself and tell me again that I'm exaggerating at all.
Wait, we know Joseph targetted XP with Poison from Faust, right?
Wait, Faust.. I guess getting role actions doesn't include Factional one?
Wait, we know Joseph targetted XP with Poison from Faust, right?
Wait, Faust.. I guess getting role actions doesn't include Factional one?
faust claimed this: "I targeted chairs last night. He was targeted by pickpocket and therapist (and no other role)."
So, no.
but even if faust is watching XP and Joseph attacks him, faust will just know that he has been attacked, that doesn't strain Joseph
It's not new here, it's excessive here.I disagree. Perhaps I've gotten into more fights this game than is average for me, but that's about it. It's probably just cause I haven't been suspected as town in quite a while.
It's not new here, it's excessive here.I disagree. Perhaps I've gotten into more fights this game than is average for me, but that's about it. It's probably just cause I haven't been suspected as town in quite a while.
Oh, I should pay attention. So, Joseph is probably lying, off chance of a roleblock.
Ichi is either lying or delusional.
Ichi is either lying or delusional.Uh. Neither thank you.
I'm going to vote: Joseph as well. His claim and claimed target are weird--and he's lurking.
No, it just looks scummy because it looks like you're jumping on the first wagon that isn't you.Oh. Ok. I like the WW wagon too.
No, it just looks scummy because it looks like you're jumping on the first wagon that isn't you.Oh. Ok. I like the WW wagon too.
Wait, we know Joseph targetted XP with Poison from Faust, right?
Wait, Faust.. I guess getting role actions doesn't include Factional one?
wow, that's... a pretty interesting plan.
problems I see so far
-> it relies heavily on your sincerity. If you're scum, it does nothing
-> if scum has some kind of hidden roleblocking power, they can just roleblock e
-> if you're town and both scum attack you tonight, you will die without being able to reveal your results
I have a really strong town read on you, so I don't see #1 as a big problem
also-- does it have to be everyone? can't at least ash target someone else?
@3: But that's the cool thing - Awaclus will steal my result, and he cannot die. Obviously you'd have to trust Awaclus, but he's a town read for me.
Actually... just thought about a better option: Everyone targets me, I target e. That way, I cannot die, and we don't need to rely on Awaclus. Awaclus can do wahtever he wants to then (not target me though).
@3: But that's the cool thing - Awaclus will steal my result, and he cannot die. Obviously you'd have to trust Awaclus, but he's a town read for me.
ohh, right. sneaky.Actually... just thought about a better option: Everyone targets me, I target e. That way, I cannot die, and we don't need to rely on Awaclus. Awaclus can do wahtever he wants to then (not target me though).
but you get poisoned
I'm going to vote: Joseph as well. His claim and claimed target are weird--and he's lurking.Am I lurking that much? I guess I've been a bit less active than usual, but I've been busy quite a lot, and ill for a couple of days too.
Seems like an okay plan, because if scum do something different, it immediately outs them. But does it rely on trusting faust? Also, I can poison 2 people tonight if I want.@3: But that's the cool thing - Awaclus will steal my result, and he cannot die. Obviously you'd have to trust Awaclus, but he's a town read for me.
ohh, right. sneaky.Actually... just thought about a better option: Everyone targets me, I target e. That way, I cannot die, and we don't need to rely on Awaclus. Awaclus can do wahtever he wants to then (not target me though).
but you get poisoned
No, e targets me, so it's still him that gets poisoned.
Further, seems safest to lynch the killing role out of the pair. We've hit one scum already, even if we mislynch, we have the other one. Enough of us can investigate silver too.If no-one fakeclaimed a role, then it's true that either me or silverspawn is lying. However, I think it's possible someone fakeclaimed their role. This makes me more hesitant about this plan, and faust's, as you two seem like the most likely to be able to make up a good fake role (as you two have been mods for RMM games before, which involves making good, imaginative roles, and no-one else here has to my knowledge).
Further, seems safest to lynch the killing role out of the pair. We've hit one scum already, even if we mislynch, we have the other one. Enough of us can investigate silver too.
Further, seems safest to lynch the killing role out of the pair. We've hit one scum already, even if we mislynch, we have the other one. Enough of us can investigate silver too.If no-one fakeclaimed a role, then it's true that either me or silverspawn is lying. However, I think it's possible someone fakeclaimed their role. This makes me more hesitant about this plan, and faust's, as you two seem like the most likely to be able to make up a good fake role (as you two have been mods for RMM games before, which involves making good, imaginative roles, and no-one else here has to my knowledge).
Seems like an okay plan, because if scum do something different, it immediately outs them. But does it rely on trusting faust? Also, I can poison 2 people tonight if I want.
Further, seems safest to lynch the killing role out of the pair. We've hit one scum already, even if we mislynch, we have the other one. Enough of us can investigate silver too.
I find it very hard to believe that scum would have a killing role here. I'd personally consider that close to bastard territory, considering the OP.
Further, seems safest to lynch the killing role out of the pair. We've hit one scum already, even if we mislynch, we have the other one. Enough of us can investigate silver too.
I find it very hard to believe that scum would have a killing role here. I'd personally consider that close to bastard territory, considering the OP.
My point is, he's lying scum, not an actual poisoner.
I mean, he claims to have vigged the keystone of our plan.
I'm okay with lynching Ichi today, because his role name could actually stand for some kind of roleblocking power.You could at least pretend to want to lynch people other than me you know. Plus, dat reason...
I'm okay with lynching Ichi today, because his role name could actually stand for some kind of roleblocking power.You could at least pretend to want to lynch people other than me you know. Plus, dat reason...
This whole movement against Joseph seems scummy. I mean, if he's town, he's definitely our best PR by a wide margin. He's even boosted for tonight? Man, if I was scum, I'd really want this wagon to succeed.Not if he's your partner you wouldn't. I see few reasons to think he is town.
This whole movement against Joseph seems scummy. I mean, if he's town, he's definitely our best PR by a wide margin. He's even boosted for tonight? Man, if I was scum, I'd really want this wagon to succeed.I completely agree.
Wait a second.. According to Joseph, scum attacks Stab? Did anyone know about this? It doesn't seem to be in the flavor.
The flavour idea is that if I poison them and scum stabs them, then the stab causes the poison to leave them, so they don't die.
So as XP was attacked, then as I poisoned XP, he shouldn't have been killed.
Which means someone must have stopped me attacking XP.
That would be lame.Also, I don't have a qt for my role.
Does anyone else have flavor information/explanation regarding their role in their role QT? I do not.
That would be lame.Also, I don't have a qt for my role.
Does anyone else have flavor information/explanation regarding their role in their role QT? I do not.
*cough* scumslip.
PPE: 3
AND... who else has a "must be town" role? Every other role in the game could be alignment-switched and it would still work balance-wise.
AND... who else has a "must be town" role? Every other role in the game could be alignment-switched and it would still work balance-wise.
2.7- role could definitely be scum, however only protective role, so probably not IMO.
A Drowned Kernel - role could be either, getting a null readashersky- cannot see how this is a scum role, good town playerXerxesPraelor- kind of think this is too good for scum, so I think town
Hydrad - role could be either, logic with faust thing seems a bit weak.
Awaclus - could definitely been scum role, "If I was partners with XP, I would kill silverspawn." seems like a pointless statement, as I'm pretty sure XP is town. Not too much else to go on.
faust - role could be either, null read on posts.Joseph2302- me
silverspawn - role could be either, posts don't seem very scummy to me.
Witherweaver - can you target scum with this role? If so, seems scummy role. But play hasn't been scummy.chairs- needed for the plan, role could be scummy, but his play doesn't seem scummy to me
Ichimaru Gin - possible scum role. Seems pretty defensive.
PPE: Lots (3?)
Why is Silver scummy? Because Joseph is townie?
So the operating theory for town!Joseph is that he was Roleblocked in some way. This indicates scum would be worried about Joseph poisoning them.. what were Joseph's D1 reads?
Why not today? I don't really trust his reads either if he targeted XP. Letting him randomly kill 2 other people could end up hitting no scum and just hurt us a bunch.AND... who else has a "must be town" role? Every other role in the game could be alignment-switched and it would still work balance-wise.
Look... we can find out if Joseph lies tonight. If he does, we'll just lynch him tomorrow. Why does it have to be today?
AND... who else has a "must be town" role? Every other role in the game could be alignment-switched and it would still work balance-wise.
Look... we can find out if Joseph lies tonight. If he does, we'll just lynch him tomorrow. Why does it have to be today?
Why is Silver scummy? Because Joseph is townie?Because silverspawn is only person who could have RB me. If I'm town, then either silverspawn is lying, or someone has fakeclaimed their role.
So the operating theory for town!Joseph is that he was Roleblocked in some way. This indicates scum would be worried about Joseph poisoning them.. what were Joseph's D1 reads?
Just for clarification, my flavour didn't include the exact word "stab". It did say that if a poisoned person is attacked, then the poison leaves them, I implied stabbing from this (although the only way I can think of to get poison out of someone is for the poisoned blood to leave them, for example by stabbing).Wait a second.. According to Joseph, scum attacks Stab? Did anyone know about this? It doesn't seem to be in the flavor.The flavour idea is that if I poison them and scum stabs them, then the stab causes the poison to leave them, so they don't die.
So as XP was attacked, then as I poisoned XP, he shouldn't have been killed.
Which means someone must have stopped me attacking XP.
This is very interesting. Why stab?
So, any thoughts on who I should poison?Okay, I guess I should choose the person I find scummiest. This makes sense, right?
Why is Silver scummy? Because Joseph is townie?Because silverspawn is only person who could have RB me. If I'm town, then either silverspawn is lying, or someone has fakeclaimed their role.
So the operating theory for town!Joseph is that he was Roleblocked in some way. This indicates scum would be worried about Joseph poisoning them.. what were Joseph's D1 reads?Just for clarification, my flavour didn't include the exact word "stab". It did say that if a poisoned person is attacked, then the poison leaves them, I implied stabbing from this (although the only way I can think of to get poison out of someone is for the poisoned blood to leave them, for example by stabbing).Wait a second.. According to Joseph, scum attacks Stab? Did anyone know about this? It doesn't seem to be in the flavor.The flavour idea is that if I poison them and scum stabs them, then the stab causes the poison to leave them, so they don't die.
So as XP was attacked, then as I poisoned XP, he shouldn't have been killed.
Which means someone must have stopped me attacking XP.
This is very interesting. Why stab?
PPE:3
Why not today? I don't really trust his reads either if he targeted XP. Letting him randomly kill 2 other people could end up hitting no scum and just hurt us a bunch.AND... who else has a "must be town" role? Every other role in the game could be alignment-switched and it would still work balance-wise.
Look... we can find out if Joseph lies tonight. If he does, we'll just lynch him tomorrow. Why does it have to be today?
PPE: Interesting, he says he thinks XP is town there.
That's true, but if I poison 2 town, it's reasonably likely 1 of them will be attacked as well. Also, if I hadn't been RBed (or whatever happened), then I would actually have saved XP last night. So, my poison can work as offence and defence.Why not today? I don't really trust his reads either if he targeted XP. Letting him randomly kill 2 other people could end up hitting no scum and just hurt us a bunch.AND... who else has a "must be town" role? Every other role in the game could be alignment-switched and it would still work balance-wise.
Look... we can find out if Joseph lies tonight. If he does, we'll just lynch him tomorrow. Why does it have to be today?
PPE: Interesting, he says he thinks XP is town there.
Uh. That just makes me think that the utility of keeping him alive is much less. You, really, really don't want to lynch Joseph today do you? I'm fine with e being poisoned though.Why not today? I don't really trust his reads either if he targeted XP. Letting him randomly kill 2 other people could end up hitting no scum and just hurt us a bunch.AND... who else has a "must be town" role? Every other role in the game could be alignment-switched and it would still work balance-wise.
Look... we can find out if Joseph lies tonight. If he does, we'll just lynch him tomorrow. Why does it have to be today?
PPE: Interesting, he says he thinks XP is town there.
If you don't trust his reads, you're already working under the assumption that he's town, in which case we shouldn't lynch him. Tomorrow because tomorrow we will KNOW whether he lied about his role.
If it makes you feel better, we can direct his second poisoning.
PPEs
That's true, but if I poison 2 town, it's reasonably likely 1 of them will be attacked as well. Also, if I hadn't been RBed (or whatever happened), then I would actually have saved XP last night. So, my poison can work as offence and defence.Why not today? I don't really trust his reads either if he targeted XP. Letting him randomly kill 2 other people could end up hitting no scum and just hurt us a bunch.AND... who else has a "must be town" role? Every other role in the game could be alignment-switched and it would still work balance-wise.
Look... we can find out if Joseph lies tonight. If he does, we'll just lynch him tomorrow. Why does it have to be today?
PPE: Interesting, he says he thinks XP is town there.
PPE:2
Uh. That just makes me think that the utility of keeping him alive is much less. You, really, really don't want to lynch Joseph today do you? I'm fine with e being poisoned though.
PPE: This does sound kind of townie.
Allegedly he received a 1-Shot Duplicator, so I don't think it has to be used tonight... why should he necessarily Poison twice?
If I were scum with joesph I would kill chairs because of the weird cop combo potential
Leaving for work now, like my vote where it is. This Joseph stuff is really interesting though. I am in favor of waiting to lynch him and see how his role works out tonight.
One thing that I can do, is if I target Joseph, then he will not be able to have someone RB/redirect his action, because the action they perform on him will go to me. So maybe modify the plan a bit for that? Joseph can still poison me, but I help make sure he hits his targets. I think his second poison target should remain secret.
You could be one of those people. What would you like to discuss? Who do you think is scummy?
Ya I know thats my fault for not engaging. I just find its easier when people ask me directly then if I have to "interrupt".
Anyways I think XP/SS/IG are scummy right now. I was going to suggest talking about a night plan but it seems faust has made a nice one and no one has any issues with it.
Also faust/asher/ADK/e seem towny. E just seems towny for his role though so I don't know if I should count that or not.
I stand by my word!Yay!
Vote: Witherweaver
I'm not his friggin partner ok. Plus, I would argue that Hydrad might not include his partner as a scum read since he only has one. I'm willing to give Joseph the benefit of the doubt for now I guess.
vote: WW
And really, WW's latest posts read like doing stuff for the sake of doing stuff to me. Finding Hydrad's partner isn't important, the important thing is finding scum.
And really, WW's latest posts read like doing stuff for the sake of doing stuff to me. Finding Hydrad's partner isn't important, the important thing is finding scum.
... seriously? You don't think that it's easier to find Hydrad's partner than the others?
And really, WW's latest posts read like doing stuff for the sake of doing stuff to me. Finding Hydrad's partner isn't important, the important thing is finding scum.
... seriously? You don't think that it's easier to find Hydrad's partner than the others?
Not really.
And really, WW's latest posts read like doing stuff for the sake of doing stuff to me. Finding Hydrad's partner isn't important, the important thing is finding scum.
... seriously? You don't think that it's easier to find Hydrad's partner than the others?
Not really.
Why? Isn't partner interaction, like, a thing?
- When one Mafia faction has been eliminated, a player has to be attacked twice by any faction's "attack" to die.
Somehow silverspawn, IG, and ww all seem to be making sense this game - normally that's restricted to like one person a game. Something weird is going on, but I'm not sure what.
vote: hydrad
That's a very sheepy case, and the rest of the post looks like a scum partner soooo much.
Hydrad/Faust/e scum team for posterity.
Faust's analysis looks scummier than anything I've seen in a long time.
I think ash would be part of a different partner pair if he's scum, Hydrad's reaction is more what I would expect a partner to act like.
We've been considering other stuff.. what's wrong with considering who Hydrad's partner would be? And everything is WIFOM.Actually, that would be super-good if we could do that.
Also:- When one Mafia faction has been eliminated, a player has to be attacked twice by any faction's "attack" to die.
We eliminate half a kill if we do find him. Mafia can only half kill each night.
Ichi, why did you reveal your role Piecemeal?I was the first to fullclaim--and all XP claimed was his flavor. I didn't understand my power fully and wasn't sure whether everyone was going to fullclaim. Plus, I hadn't read through my PM super thoroughly either.
Ichi, why did you reveal your role Piecemeal?I was the first to fullclaim--and all XP claimed was his flavor. I didn't understand my power fully and wasn't sure whether everyone was going to fullclaim. Plus, I hadn't read through my PM super thoroughly either.
I like claiming. My role isn't especially good or anything, so I didn't see how it could hurt.Ichi, why did you reveal your role Piecemeal?I was the first to fullclaim--and all XP claimed was his flavor. I didn't understand my power fully and wasn't sure whether everyone was going to fullclaim. Plus, I hadn't read through my PM super thoroughly either.
So why did you want to claim, then?
I like claiming. My role isn't especially good or anything, so I didn't see how it could hurt.Ichi, why did you reveal your role Piecemeal?I was the first to fullclaim--and all XP claimed was his flavor. I didn't understand my power fully and wasn't sure whether everyone was going to fullclaim. Plus, I hadn't read through my PM super thoroughly either.
So why did you want to claim, then?
I didn't read my PM super thoroughly; it wasn't really purposeful. I thought that it might be harmful for scum to know about the downsides of my power. Seriously, how many other people kept a thing or two secret about their roles?I like claiming. My role isn't especially good or anything, so I didn't see how it could hurt.Ichi, why did you reveal your role Piecemeal?I was the first to fullclaim--and all XP claimed was his flavor. I didn't understand my power fully and wasn't sure whether everyone was going to fullclaim. Plus, I hadn't read through my PM super thoroughly either.
So why did you want to claim, then?
But what was your thought process? Why did you withhold the particular pieces of information that you withheld?
Alright. Then why admit it later?Man. I changed my mind. It didn't seem like people were on board with who I wanted lynched at that time, and I wanted the input on whether I should even use my power at all.
I don't buy the WW lynch. can't we lynch ADK?
I don't buy the WW lynch. can't we lynch ADK?
I don't buy the WW lynch. can't we lynch ADK?
Why do you want to lynch ADK and not Joseph?
Have I missed something? What's the case on WW?
Um, so it appears I've been continuously misreading my role, and I've finally actually read it correctly.
The definitely correct version is:
I poison people, they die the next night. Except if someone attacks that person, then they don't die of poisoning. Any other effects I said are WRONG!
In particular, basically everything I've said on D2 is now wrong, XP didn't get poisoned because he got attacked, not because I was roleblocked. Silverspawn felt towny to me, so me being an idiot and screwing things up makes more sense than him being scum.
I am so stupid. Also, my role is less good than I thought.
AND... who else has a "must be town" role? Every other role in the game could be alignment-switched and it would still work balance-wise.
Making the poisoner a role that negates attacks does weaken it enough for scum. There is a reason I was saying my #1 kill choice last night as scum was going to be Joseph. His role, as claimed, is extremely powerful. I mean, whoever he targets is 2-night bulletproof (to some extent) and then they die unless the BP is used up.
Except.....XP still died.
That's true, but if I poison 2 town, it's reasonably likely 1 of them will be attacked as well. Also, if I hadn't been RBed (or whatever happened), then I would actually have saved XP last night. So, my poison can work as offence and defence.Why not today? I don't really trust his reads either if he targeted XP. Letting him randomly kill 2 other people could end up hitting no scum and just hurt us a bunch.AND... who else has a "must be town" role? Every other role in the game could be alignment-switched and it would still work balance-wise.
Look... we can find out if Joseph lies tonight. If he does, we'll just lynch him tomorrow. Why does it have to be today?
PPE: Interesting, he says he thinks XP is town there.
PPE:2
Every mafia game, I seem to end up doing something stupid, and getting lynched for it. Looks like this game will be no exception.
Vote: JosephEvery mafia game, I seem to end up doing something stupid, and getting lynched for it. Looks like this game will be no exception.
You've actually turned out to be scum quite often, too.
We have a scum faction split into two with the difficult proposition of making night kills work only when both pairs successfully target the same player.
Then we have a player claim he can negate one (or more) of those attacks each night, thereby making it even more difficult for those kills to be successful.
Then we have that same player claim to have used his kill-stopping power on the player that died at night.
Why in the world are we believing anything this player says? The role is made up nonsense that can't possible exist, then his "use" of that role didn't even match his claims, and now he's backtracked completely to a safer claim when it's been pointed out.
yeah, this doesn't surprise me.ADK is interesting to me. He gave me the doubling power, but scum could do that, assuming that I'll be useless and help them kill town. That seems like a risky strategy though.
Joseph is town I think.
let's lynch Awaclus or ADK
yeah, this doesn't surprise me.ADK is interesting to me. He gave me the doubling power, but scum could do that, assuming that I'll be useless and help them kill town. That seems like a risky strategy though.
Joseph is town I think.
let's lynch Awaclus or ADK
What happens if the target was already attacked?
Say Night 1 Scum Team A attacks me. Night 2 you Poison me. Do I die Night 3?
Plus, can you answer this:Yes.What happens if the target was already attacked?
Say Night 1 Scum Team A attacks me. Night 2 you Poison me. Do I die Night 3?
As I read it now, he's a delayed Vig, with a "perk" that his target won't die if targeted by one of the scum team---more likely to happen to town than scum.
Plus, can you answer this:Yes.What happens if the target was already attacked?
Say Night 1 Scum Team A attacks me. Night 2 you Poison me. Do I die Night 3?
They only get unpoisoned if attacked on night you poison them or night after (N2 and N3) in example.
WW (top scum read anyway) is super white knighting Joseph. I'd assume Joseph/WW pair with Ichi or whomever as Hydrad's partner.
WW (top scum read anyway) is super white knighting Joseph. I'd assume Joseph/WW pair with Ichi or whomever as Hydrad's partner.
if they're both scum, it's not white knighting, right?
I mean, how hard is it to imagine that Joseph, and/or his partner, going "hey, you just really messed up in Dune 2, plus you make mistakes all the time, let's use that to our advantage" and faking this whole thing.
so, it's funny because I recall you making a really interesting posts about how strong different PR's are. I think you said doc is weak, vig is super strong, IC is somewhere below average. or was that not you? I'm pretty sure it was you.
WW (top scum read anyway) is super white knighting Joseph. I'd assume Joseph/WW pair with Ichi or whomever as Hydrad's partner.
We have a scum faction split into two with the difficult proposition of making night kills work only when both pairs successfully target the same player.
Then we have a player claim he can negate one (or more) of those attacks each night, thereby making it even more difficult for those kills to be successful.
Then we have that same player claim to have used his kill-stopping power on the player that died at night.
Why in the world are we believing anything this player says? The role is made up nonsense that can't possible exist, then his "use" of that role didn't even match his claims, and now he's backtracked completely to a safer claim when it's been pointed out.
He's not saying he can negate attacks. He's saying now that he does not.
As I read it now, he's a delayed Vig, with a "perk" that his target won't die if targeted by one of the scum team---more likely to happen to town than scum.
Explaining why it's more likely he's town for him:As I read it now, he's a delayed Vig, with a "perk" that his target won't die if targeted by one of the scum team---more likely to happen to town than scum.
Answering questions for him:We have a scum faction split into two with the difficult proposition of making night kills work only when both pairs successfully target the same player.
Then we have a player claim he can negate one (or more) of those attacks each night, thereby making it even more difficult for those kills to be successful.
Then we have that same player claim to have used his kill-stopping power on the player that died at night.
Why in the world are we believing anything this player says? The role is made up nonsense that can't possible exist, then his "use" of that role didn't even match his claims, and now he's backtracked completely to a safer claim when it's been pointed out.
He's not saying he can negate attacks. He's saying now that he does not.
WW (top scum read anyway) is super white knighting Joseph. I'd assume Joseph/WW pair with Ichi or whomever as Hydrad's partner.I'm not Hydrad's partner. Please. Why would I ask someone to hammer him yesterday and not hammer him myself?--that makes no sense. I was completely on the Hydrad wagon and then SS made some weird comments about me being partners with him--while simultaneously telling me that I shouldn't vote him. I suck at reading Hydrad, end of story.
I don't want to lynch Witherweaver today. He has been really mysterious about how he is using his role and I want to see that played out one more night.
I don't want to lynch Witherweaver today. He has been really mysterious about how he is using his role and I want to see that played out one more night.
That's a terrible reason. And it's terrible that he hasn't said anything about how he's used his role.
I don't want to lynch Witherweaver today. He has been really mysterious about how he is using his role and I want to see that played out one more night.
That's a terrible reason. And it's terrible that he hasn't said anything about how he's used his role.
I'm WW's partner.FTFY
I'm WW's partner.FTFY
Yes, not wanting to lynch someone for terrible, obviously fake reasons implies partners. OMGHURD you're so amazeballs at Mafia.Thanks.
Or it could be that I'm pretty obviously town.Hey, that's my line!
I don't like Faust defending Joseph either. He's been towny otherwise, though, as opposed to others.
I mean, how hard is it to imagine that Joseph, and/or his partner, going "hey, you just really messed up in Dune 2, plus you make mistakes all the time, let's use that to our advantage" and faking this whole thing.
I want to lynch Joseph more than I've ever wanted to lynch anyone ever in any game ever.
Faust is looking worse and worse.
I want to lynch Joseph more than I've ever wanted to lynch anyone ever in any game ever.
Faust is looking worse and worse.
Tell me why checking his role is not an option.
I want to lynch Joseph more than I've ever wanted to lynch anyone ever in any game ever.
Faust is looking worse and worse.
Tell me why checking his role is not an option.
I can't confirm it. Remember, I only get type of action. You know else is "killing?" The factional kill.
As for WW: He's playing openly anti-town, and I won't have that. Consider it a policy vote if you will.
As for WW: He's playing openly anti-town, and I won't have that. Consider it a policy vote if you will.
Wherin lynching scum is considered anti-town.
What you really mean to say is, "I know WW is town, but I want to lynch him anyway." That's fine, but be honest.
I agree, for once I don't think you're scum.I don't like Faust defending Joseph either. He's been towny otherwise, though, as opposed to others.
I've also been towny!
Very hard, considering I wasn't in Dune 2 game...I mean, how hard is it to imagine that Joseph, and/or his partner, going "hey, you just really messed up in Dune 2, plus you make mistakes all the time, let's use that to our advantage" and faking this whole thing.
Pretty hard.
Kind of agree with this, no lynch seems bad here.As for WW: He's playing openly anti-town, and I won't have that. Consider it a policy vote if you will.
Wherin lynching scum is considered anti-town.
What you really mean to say is, "I know WW is town, but I want to lynch him anyway." That's fine, but be honest.
It's considered anti-twon to withhold which player cannot get lynched today, and to hope for that exact player to be "lynched" so that the game moves to night without a lynch.
Very hard, considering I wasn't in Dune 2 game...I mean, how hard is it to imagine that Joseph, and/or his partner, going "hey, you just really messed up in Dune 2, plus you make mistakes all the time, let's use that to our advantage" and faking this whole thing.
Pretty hard.
I want to lynch Joseph more than I've ever wanted to lynch anyone ever in any game ever.
Faust is looking worse and worse.
Tell me why checking his role is not an option.
I can't confirm it. Remember, I only get type of action. You know else is "killing?" The factional kill.
Hrm. If the person you target performs two actions, will you be informed of both?
As for WW: He's playing openly anti-town, and I won't have that. Consider it a policy vote if you will.
Wherin lynching scum is considered anti-town.
What you really mean to say is, "I know WW is town, but I want to lynch him anyway." That's fine, but be honest.
It's considered anti-twon to withhold which player cannot get lynched today, and to hope for that exact player to be "lynched" so that the game moves to night without a lynch.
We still have a (potential) problem:
Joseph targets XP with Poison. Scum Attacks XP, which neutralizes Poison. Would Joseph show up as targetting XP, or does the "neutralization" act as a Roleblock for purposes of targetting?
What happens if you Watch someone that was Doctored and Attacked? You'd get both people targetting, right?
I'm not sure this issue is resolved:We still have a (potential) problem:
Joseph targets XP with Poison. Scum Attacks XP, which neutralizes Poison. Would Joseph show up as targetting XP, or does the "neutralization" act as a Roleblock for purposes of targetting?
What happens if you Watch someone that was Doctored and Attacked? You'd get both people targetting, right?
Are we sure we don't have the lying!Joseph vs. scum!Roleblocker dilemma?
But Faust did not see you target XP.Wait, really? Well in that case, either:
But Faust did not see you target XP.
As for WW: He's playing openly anti-town, and I won't have that. Consider it a policy vote if you will.
Wherin lynching scum is considered anti-town.
What you really mean to say is, "I know WW is town, but I want to lynch him anyway." That's fine, but be honest.
It's considered anti-twon to withhold which player cannot get lynched today, and to hope for that exact player to be "lynched" so that the game moves to night without a lynch.
Who said I'm hoping some specific player gets lynched?
But Faust did not see you target XP.
err... yeah, that might be because I targeted chairs. Just a hunch.
I think that's better left unsaid, no?
But Faust did not see you target XP.
err... yeah, that might be because I targeted chairs. Just a hunch.
Huh? I thought you watched XP.
Why was there this big discussion of Roleblocking then? Joseph blocking kills never made sense in the first place.
Why was there this big discussion of Roleblocking then? Joseph blocking kills never made sense in the first place.
Well, Joseph said he could block kills, I believed him.
Yeah, it's cool how you knew this before us all. You're like one of those Adventures playtesters.Why was there this big discussion of Roleblocking then? Joseph blocking kills never made sense in the first place.
Well, Joseph said he could block kills, I believed him.
But it was obviously very flawed. His own explanation of his role did not suggest that to be true.
Why was there this big discussion of Roleblocking then? Joseph blocking kills never made sense in the first place.Because I was stupid, and thought I blocked kills, in which case the roleblock thing made sense, and everyone assumed I knew what I was talking about. But yes, blocking kills is too good.
Why was there this big discussion of Roleblocking then? Joseph blocking kills never made sense in the first place.Because I was stupid, and thought I blocked kills, in which case the roleblock thing made sense, and everyone assumed I knew what I was talking about. But yes, blocking kills is too good.
Why was there this big discussion of Roleblocking then? Joseph blocking kills never made sense in the first place.Because I was stupid, and thought I blocked kills, in which case the roleblock thing made sense, and everyone assumed I knew what I was talking about. But yes, blocking kills is too good.
I somehow got it in my head that Faust had watched XP and would have seen your role target him.
Why was there this big discussion of Roleblocking then? Joseph blocking kills never made sense in the first place.Because I was stupid, and thought I blocked kills, in which case the roleblock thing made sense, and everyone assumed I knew what I was talking about. But yes, blocking kills is too good.
I somehow got it in my head that Faust had watched XP and would have seen your role target him.
WW/faust partner slip?
I don't know, maybe faust's claim was fake and he and WW talked about it in the QT the night before but then they didn't get the story straight today or something? I've kind of lost track of this game, TBH.
Yeah, it was kind of a stretch. Well, back to lynching you, I guess.
I've lost track of the claims of what people did N1, so I'm going to try and write them down in one post:
Joseph2302- poisoned XP, which failed (because they got attacked)
2.7- targetted Ashersky
WW- targetted me, no idea about Governor
Awaclus- targetted chairs, got nothing (chairs verified this)
ADK- targetted me (i've confirmed this)
chairs- mailed XP asking who to mail N2
silverspawn- targetted me, with faust, IG, silverspawn
Ichi- didn't use ability, I believe? Unless I'm missing a post?
Ashersky- can't find a claim.
I've lost track of the claims of what people did N1, so I'm going to try and write them down in one post:
Joseph2302- poisoned XP, which failed (because they got attacked)
2.7- targetted Ashersky
WW- targetted me, no idea about Governor
Awaclus- targetted chairs, got nothing (chairs verified this)
ADK- targetted me (i've confirmed this)
chairs- mailed XP asking who to mail N2
silverspawn- targetted me, with faust, IG, silverspawn
Ichi- didn't use ability, I believe? Unless I'm missing a post?
Ashersky- can't find a claim.
ash targeted me I think.
I don't know, maybe faust's claim was fake and he and WW talked about it in the QT the night before but then they didn't get the story straight today or something? I've kind of lost track of this game, TBH.
I've lost track of the claims of what people did N1, so I'm going to try and write them down in one post:
Joseph2302- poisoned XP, which failed (because they got attacked)
2.7- targetted Ashersky
WW- targetted me, no idea about Governor
Awaclus- targetted chairs, got nothing (chairs verified this)
ADK- targetted me (i've confirmed this)
chairs- mailed XP asking who to mail N2
silverspawn- targetted me, with faust, IG, silverspawn
Ichi- didn't use ability, I believe? Unless I'm missing a post?
Ashersky- can't find a claim.
Fine I'm exaggerating, but the stopping kills part was not very highly suggested by his role description.
Anyway, I got confused at some point and thought that we had a contradiction with Joseph targetting XP.
As for WW: He's playing openly anti-town, and I won't have that. Consider it a policy vote if you will.
Wherin lynching scum is considered anti-town.
What you really mean to say is, "I know WW is town, but I want to lynch him anyway." That's fine, but be honest.
It's considered anti-twon to withhold which player cannot get lynched today, and to hope for that exact player to be "lynched" so that the game moves to night without a lynch.
Fine I'm exaggerating, but the stopping kills part was not very highly suggested by his role description.
Anyway, I got confused at some point and thought that we had a contradiction with Joseph targetting XP.
I see you are continuing to speak and defend Joseph on his behalf. You are really tying yourself to him, either to save your partner or gain ubertowncred if we're all wrong about him.
I'm going with partner, given he's scum.
Very hard, considering I wasn't in Dune 2 game...I mean, how hard is it to imagine that Joseph, and/or his partner, going "hey, you just really messed up in Dune 2, plus you make mistakes all the time, let's use that to our advantage" and faking this whole thing.
Pretty hard.
As for WW: He's playing openly anti-town, and I won't have that. Consider it a policy vote if you will.
Wherin lynching scum is considered anti-town.
What you really mean to say is, "I know WW is town, but I want to lynch him anyway." That's fine, but be honest.
It's considered anti-twon to withhold which player cannot get lynched today, and to hope for that exact player to be "lynched" so that the game moves to night without a lynch.
Good additional point against WW.
If we lynch the governor'ed player, town's game is seriously screwed. It is not in town's interest at all to not know. It's doing nothing but wasting our time and our day to help scum survive.
WW is extremely anti-town here, regardless of alignment.
Fine I'm exaggerating, but the stopping kills part was not very highly suggested by his role description.
Anyway, I got confused at some point and thought that we had a contradiction with Joseph targetting XP.
I see you are continuing to speak and defend Joseph on his behalf. You are really tying yourself to him, either to save your partner or gain ubertowncred if we're all wrong about him.
I'm going with partner, given he's scum.
Do you have any notion of what the word "defend" means? If nothing in this line of conversation relates to an attack, how can there be a defense?
As for WW: He's playing openly anti-town, and I won't have that. Consider it a policy vote if you will.
Wherin lynching scum is considered anti-town.
What you really mean to say is, "I know WW is town, but I want to lynch him anyway." That's fine, but be honest.
It's considered anti-twon to withhold which player cannot get lynched today, and to hope for that exact player to be "lynched" so that the game moves to night without a lynch.
Good additional point against WW.
If we lynch the governor'ed player, town's game is seriously screwed. It is not in town's interest at all to not know. It's doing nothing but wasting our time and our day to help scum survive.
WW is extremely anti-town here, regardless of alignment.
Uh-huh.
Fine I'm exaggerating, but the stopping kills part was not very highly suggested by his role description.
Anyway, I got confused at some point and thought that we had a contradiction with Joseph targetting XP.
I see you are continuing to speak and defend Joseph on his behalf. You are really tying yourself to him, either to save your partner or gain ubertowncred if we're all wrong about him.
I'm going with partner, given he's scum.
Do you have any notion of what the word "defend" means? If nothing in this line of conversation relates to an attack, how can there be a defense?
We are "attacking" the honesty of his claim. You are "defending" the truth in his claim by rationalizing what he said, explaining how it works, making it seem not as false as it really is.
As for WW: He's playing openly anti-town, and I won't have that. Consider it a policy vote if you will.
Wherin lynching scum is considered anti-town.
What you really mean to say is, "I know WW is town, but I want to lynch him anyway." That's fine, but be honest.
It's considered anti-twon to withhold which player cannot get lynched today, and to hope for that exact player to be "lynched" so that the game moves to night without a lynch.
Good additional point against WW.
If we lynch the governor'ed player, town's game is seriously screwed. It is not in town's interest at all to not know. It's doing nothing but wasting our time and our day to help scum survive.
WW is extremely anti-town here, regardless of alignment.
Uh-huh.
Why are you being so obtuse? Like, are you trying the "so anti-town he can't be scum" tactic? It's pretty infuriating.
No one is Lynchproof today.
Better?
No one is Lynchproof today.
Better?
Why did you feel it was important to withhold this information for so long?
???
Can we just vote: WW and move on please.
Awaclus: Wow.. I don't remember much from him. Someone reported strong town vibes. Actually I think being sort of background is more of a town trait for him than a scum trait, so there's that. But I may have it the other way around. He was nice enough to explain it to us one game, but I've forgotten.
Awaclus: Wow.. I don't remember much from him. Someone reported strong town vibes. Actually I think being sort of background is more of a town trait for him than a scum trait, so there's that. But I may have it the other way around. He was nice enough to explain it to us one game, but I've forgotten.
I've explained it in this game too. In regular games, I'm not the most active poster but pretty active as both town and scum. In RMMs, I've always been town and I've always lurked a lot since a lot of the stuff that's going on is something that I don't really have an opinion on.
???
Can we just vote: WW and move on please.
Whyever would you want to do that? And didn't you already do it?
Am I at L-1?
I thought you moved back to me?
Oh, I just thought of this: non-Hydrad scum team can be certain that I'm town, because I think we can all agree there's no scenario where I'm Hydrad's partner. And Hydrad's partner obviously knows I'm town, so I'm a certain mislynch for scum. Of note for wagon analysis.
Oh, I just thought of this: non-Hydrad scum team can be certain that I'm town, because I think we can all agree there's no scenario where I'm Hydrad's partner. And Hydrad's partner obviously knows I'm town, so I'm a certain mislynch for scum. Of note for wagon analysis.
Why does Hydrad's partner know that?
Because I insisted he be lynched basically all of Day 1? That kind of bussing is not reasonable, I think.
Ok, that's fair. Who do you think Hydrad's partner is, then? That would cripple scum, so it's probably the person we should be looking for right now anyway.
Oh, I just thought of this: non-Hydrad scum team can be certain that I'm town, because I think we can all agree there's no scenario where I'm Hydrad's partner. And Hydrad's partner obviously knows I'm town, so I'm a certain mislynch for scum. Of note for wagon analysis.
Why does Hydrad's partner know that?
Oh, you're right, from his perspective I could be on the other team. So, one team can be sure.
unvote. WW brought up an interesting point, and I'd really like to try to find Hydrad's partner today so we can cripple scum ASAP since it limits them to 1 NK every 2 Nights based on the setup information.I made this point earlier along with my analysis about Hydrad's partner right out of the gate. I don't know that it's super good, but it's something. Mostly, people just seemed to ignore it and take issue with my obvious tongue in cheek preemptive "defense".
So what is the case on Witherweaver? That he has been "anti-town" by not claiming right away? My case against him (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.msg469582#msg469582) from yesterday?
I see a lot of smoke, but don't see a ton of fire.
unvote. WW brought up an interesting point, and I'd really like to try to find Hydrad's partner today so we can cripple scum ASAP since it limits them to 1 NK every 2 Nights based on the setup information.
unvote. WW brought up an interesting point, and I'd really like to try to find Hydrad's partner today so we can cripple scum ASAP since it limits them to 1 NK every 2 Nights based on the setup information.
This reads towny.It could be fake, but it adds to my general good feeling about chairs.
unvote. WW brought up an interesting point, and I'd really like to try to find Hydrad's partner today so we can cripple scum ASAP since it limits them to 1 NK every 2 Nights based on the setup information.
This reads towny.It could be fake, but it adds to my general good feeling about chairs.
I can't help but feel a little affronted that when others bring up the virtues of finding Hydrad's partner, they're townie, but when I do it I'm scummy and posting for the sake of looking like I'm doing something.
Well. We still have like 5 days--at the same time I think there's already been a ton that's happened today: the massclaim, ADK's and my fight, etc. So ending it now is fine.
Eh. His role doesn't look super strong...should I hammer?
uh, no? why would you want to hammer.
you seem to be nervous about this lynch though. which by the way is going a little bit too easily. Although I guess with two different scum pairings that's less of a tell than normal.
let's try something else. unvote
vote: ADK
Well faust isn't happening right now. I'm going to vote: ADK as well. I thought your case on him was good--and I felt he was really scummy when we were fighting.
PPE: 1
Oh man this game is really picking up.
can we get a Vote count?
I'm actually starting to like a IG vote but I want to see where everything is.
Does anyone else want to lynch e? It feels like he's gotten very little attention, and said relatively little, in all of this.There's too many people I find scummy!
You are right here though. He's been pretty low activity and has anyone really voted for him?
PPE: I'm not wholly opposed to lynching Hydrad.
And then died like a fish out of water. You know who's nervous about wagons going through too quickly? Scum who's trying to figure out who their partners are. So who let the Hydrad wagon die?... well, I guess that would be silverspawn.
So hey, vote: silverspawn
PPE: 1
well, looks like ADK isn't happening
vote: Hydrad L-1
I don't see how ADK is towny though
Alright this is pretty close to the hammer:I could see silverspawn doing this (there was a game where he bussed all his other scum team, and then won), however I'm not getting a scummy feel from silverspawn this game. Unlike every other game I've played with him.well, looks like ADK isn't happening
vote: Hydrad L-1
I don't see how ADK is towny though
Silver was trying to push ADK before this. If Silver was the partner, this would be him accepting that Hydrad (was at L-2) would be the lynch and trying to get town cred.. well, maybe. The only other wagon that point was me at 3 votes. So, this is actually believable.
But he wasn't scum in many of those games, right?
[/quote
He was scum sometimes, from what I can remember.So, that was a nice little exercise. For tonight, I most want Joseph and ash confirmed. Possibly e. I'm sure we can come up with something to do that.I think checking me makes sense, since I spent the early bit of D2 getting confused/talking rubbish about my role. Ash too seems sensible, as name is suggestive, and he's one of the more likely people to fakeclaim IMO (since he's good at making up RMM roles).
But he wasn't scum in many of those games, right?He was scum sometimes, from what I can remember.
So, that was a nice little exercise. For tonight, I most want Joseph and ash confirmed. Possibly e. I'm sure we can come up with something to do that.I think checking me makes sense, since I spent the early bit of D2 getting confused/talking rubbish about my role. Ash too seems sensible, as name is suggestive, and he's one of the more likely people to fakeclaim IMO (since he's good at making up RMM roles).
I like faust's most recent post. On WW, I still like lynching him--I don't think everyone that's pushing his lynch is townie though--which gives me slight pause. WW is just so slippery as scum...I don't know. The fact that I'm considering unvoting him makes me more inclined to think he's scum.
PPE: I really like a Joseph lynch too.
You have a point. Honestly, I'd rather lynch and vote: Joseph right now I think.I like faust's most recent post. On WW, I still like lynching him--I don't think everyone that's pushing his lynch is townie though--which gives me slight pause. WW is just so slippery as scum...I don't know. The fact that I'm considering unvoting him makes me more inclined to think he's scum.
PPE: I really like a Joseph lynch too.
Hardly seems fair, lynch me if you think I'm scummy, but if I don't look scummy then I have to be scum, so lynch me.
Why aren't we lynching e again?
Oohkay. I'll try it.Why aren't we lynching e again?
Build a case against me and I might think about it
Oohkay. I'll try it.Why aren't we lynching e again?
Build a case against me and I might think about it
We don't have confirmation of Joseph from people dying. (From you watching is possible.). Combinations of Attacks and the prevention thing can cover a fake claim here.
Town! - Ashersky, faust, WW
maybe town - chairs, Joseph, Awaclus
maybe scum - silverspawn, ADK
Scum! - Ichi
We don't have confirmation of Joseph from people dying. (From you watching is possible.). Combinations of Attacks and the prevention thing can cover a fake claim here.
I'd say 2 people dying the same night would be pretty close to confirmation. That might not happen though.
Why aren't we lynching e again?
Town! - Ashersky, faust, WW
maybe town - chairs, Joseph, Awaclus
maybe scum - silverspawn, ADK
Scum! - Ichi
This is a decent list, except for the WW part. Why do you have a town read on him? I mean, I kinda get not having a scum read, but what indicates he's town?
If e and WW aren't partners I will eat my hat.
If e and WW aren't partners I will eat my hat.
Seriously. WW waits until after faust and ash, the people who might contradict his claim, have claimed before he's willing to claim how he used his action, then conveniently says that he targeted no one, then when asked why he didn't want to give up this information he just says "I don't like being told what to do." Why are we not just auto-lynching him?
You didn't want to claim until you were sure that you wouldn't be caught in a lie?
What was so dangerous that I needed to lie?
What was so dangerous that I needed to lie?
You didn't lie. You withheld information until the two people who could potentially contradict that information (faust and ash) had claimed.
If you targeted someone with your ability (or a scum ability that you haven't claimed) and didn't want to claim it, you would want to wait until you knew that ash hadn't targeted so you can safely say you targeted nobody. That at least makes more sense than "I didn't claim right away because screw you you guys!"
If you targeted someone with your ability (or a scum ability that you haven't claimed) and didn't want to claim it, you would want to wait until you knew that ash hadn't targeted so you can safely say you targeted nobody. That at least makes more sense than "I didn't claim right away because screw you you guys!"
But what's the downside of claiming that I Governed someone? Why do I need to risk being countered by Ash/Faust at all?
If you targeted someone with your ability (or a scum ability that you haven't claimed) and didn't want to claim it, you would want to wait until you knew that ash hadn't targeted so you can safely say you targeted nobody. That at least makes more sense than "I didn't claim right away because screw you you guys!"
But what's the downside of claiming that I Governed someone? Why do I need to risk being countered by Ash/Faust at all?
Well if you were ever to flip scum that would tie you pretty strongly with the person that you Governor'd.
It's also worth noting his last post of D1 was the morning of March 12th (going off of my time) and he doesn't post again even though the thread isn't locked until late afternoon of March 13th.
I think he's been much lurkier here than I've ever seen him.I mean, I get online every day and post, but sometimes I just don't have as much to say.
And...that's it for D1. He has basically has one post talking about Hydrad--which is #497. And there's basically no substance in the post besides him saying he doesn't like the wagon and won't hammer him. Considering Hydrad was a big, important wagon around which there was a fair amount of discussion yesterday--this strikes me as pretty scummy.
I'm leaning Hydrad's partner. It could also come from noncommital scum though or scum from another team with good intuition. This just seems pretty pale for such an important wagon. It's basically just the one statement--and you never really say much about Hydrad before or after.And...that's it for D1. He has basically has one post talking about Hydrad--which is #497. And there's basically no substance in the post besides him saying he doesn't like the wagon and won't hammer him. Considering Hydrad was a big, important wagon around which there was a fair amount of discussion yesterday--this strikes me as pretty scummy.
Scummy as in I am Hydrad's partner? Or as in I could be any scum?
I'm expecting that scum!e wanted some OMGUS post from me and that's why he called me out.
How would me making a good case help you prove you are town? A good case would prove you are scum. (though of course, nothing can really be "proved" per se).I'm expecting that scum!e wanted some OMGUS post from me and that's why he called me out.
No, no, no. I hate OMGUS. It is silly. I wanted a good case that I could respond to and demonstrably prove that I am town. Which I don't get either. Because you didn't create a case, you created a summary. Which is really easy to do. As scum
#890 Continues to pressure me. Talking about the "mounds of OMGUS nonsense" that went on d1--which he made basically no comment about at the time it was going on.
But seriously, he is a fount of wisdom in this otherwise abysmally OMBUS-y thread.I guess this was a typo here. And yes, it could be classified as "basically no" comment. But I feel as though I made my interest in the OMGUS discussion clear.
Also, what am I supposed to do with this? Reply line by line?Um. Not if you don't want to?#890 Continues to pressure me. Talking about the "mounds of OMGUS nonsense" that went on d1--which he made basically no comment about at the time it was going on.But seriously, he is a fount of wisdom in this otherwise abysmally OMBUS-y thread.I guess this was a typo here. And yes, it could be classified as "basically no" comment. But I feel as though I made my interest in the OMGUS discussion clear.
I can do this all day
You replying/not replying to everything wouldn't make much of a difference to my read on you at this point.
Quote from: Star WarsAnakin Skywalker: If you're not with me, then you're my enemy.
Obi-Wan Kenobi: [realizing that Anakin is consumed by evil and there's no reasoning with him anymore] Only a Sith deals in absolutes.Yup, and everyone opposed to the plan is scum. Out yourselves, scum.vote: robz
Actually, the goal was for you to go back and actually read my posts and realize that you can't find a case because I am town. That by reading the thread you convince yourself (without any additional help) that I am town. I had no ulterior motives to catch you in some trap based on the case you made.That's different from what you said in your last post. I reread you in entirety man, and I think you're scum. And yeah, I "actually" read your posts...that's kinda why I'm voting you now.
Because you didn't create a case, you created a summary. Which is really easy to do. As scumYeah. I took a "holistic" approach which I think is much better across the board--as opposed to cherry-picking posts that only enforce a pre-existing viewpoint. So summaries are scummaries now huh? This is really ridiculous and probably the #1 reason I think you're scum right now.
I'm expecting that scum!e wanted some OMGUS post from me and that's why he called me out.
No, no, no. I hate OMGUS. It is silly. I wanted a good case that I could respond to and demonstrably prove that I am town. Which I don't get either. Because you didn't create a case, you created a summary. Which is really easy to do. As scum
and f.ds is blockedwhy is f.ds blocked at your workplace? ???
I think the only thing that looks bad about e is his treatment of Hydrad. He tried to develop/support an alternate wagon (Silverspawn I think), and didn't say much except that he didn't like the wagon. But I don't see the other points. And Ichi didn't really make a case (aside from the Hydrad point), he just said a bunch of things that e said.For one, I don't think e's treatment of the Hydrad wagon is a small point by any means. Secondly, this is pretty much what I expected from you considering you guys have been buddying each other all day. His response to my commentated summary is what made me vote him. He's tunneling me, talking out of both sides of his mouth, and man, please just read this (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.msg473199#msg473199) post and tell me that doesn't scream scum to you.
... but he's right. You didn't make a case; you made a summary. I'm missing what you see here.ss already did a good job of pointing out the difference I think. Just because I included all of his posts instead of just the ones that are scummy...means pretty much nothing. You're being semantical here and I think you know it. Did you even read e's responses?
I'm not sure what's unclear. Let me try this: why is e scummy?1. He basically had one sentence to say about Hydrad. Period. That's scummy.
No, no, no. I hate OMGUS. It is silly. I wanted a good case that I could respond to and demonstrably prove that I am town. Which I don't get either. Because you didn't create a case, you created a summary. Which is really easy to do. As scumThere are so many things wrong with this post, I don't even know where to begin. I'll just continue the list.
How would me making a good case help you prove you are town? A good case would prove you are scum. (though of course, nothing can really be "proved" per se).And he just dodges the question with another post about what he "actually" meant. A word that he seems to favor in responding to me. It is glaringly obvious that he wanted me to post something that would make me look bad and that he could exploit to continue tunneling me--which of course he does anyway with some bullshit about summaries being scummy. How would you define a case?
A case is providing some kind of argument or narrative for why someone is scum. Yeah it can be "this , this, and this are scummy," but your original post against e made him seem fairly townie.That's fair. I mean, it's mostly a reread so I kind of left things up for people to decide themselves.
Hydrad point is valid.
Not gotten suspicion.. why does that matter? Normally I believe the logic is scum is going to oiah lynches against town. But via (1) you're painting him as Hydrad's partner, so who in the game would know he's scum? Why wouldn't the "other team" be suspecting him?
And, is he my partner or Hydrad's partner? It can't be both.
That quote you label as a paragon of scumminess looks perfectly fine to me. Not townie, just not anything. A normal response. It looked like he was saying he had wanted you to make a case to which he could respond. and people would see that he's townie. (Okay, there's a thing, scum wants reakkt badly to look townie, but they also try not to state it.). Instead you just said that he said things.
Him building a case against you was townie; I'm not sure why you don't see that. Unless you're trying to argue that he's scummy for playing protown.
Not getting suspicion is scummy because town is going to get suspected by other town and by scum wanting mislynch. But in this game, scum teams don't know each other, so they will suspect each other as much as town, save their single partner. So, why is it a thing here?I strongly disagree with this. If I was scum in this setup, I would try to figure out who the other scumteam was and then avoid lynching them. And then try to push lynches on people that seemed more like scummy town.
I agree, scum would surely want to lynch town, not lynch people they think might be other scum faction.Not getting suspicion is scummy because town is going to get suspected by other town and by scum wanting mislynch. But in this game, scum teams don't know each other, so they will suspect each other as much as town, save their single partner. So, why is it a thing here?I strongly disagree with this. If I was scum in this setup, I would try to figure out who the other scumteam was and then avoid lynching them. And then try to push lynches on people that seemed more like scummy town.
Why would scum sincerely scumhunt and participate in lynching people that they really thought were members of the other team? That makes no sense to me.
So what's the case on e?This plan seems alright to me, if e is town, he can try save himself later, so it's not the worst thing ever. The rest of the plan seems good.
I'd like to do another of my plan things to confirm roles. We could have e targeting me (that's good because I stay alive, and most people seem to think I'm town). Then ash targets me, which means he really targets e, which means he'll get a "redirection" result. I can check e, and Joseph can poison e, then I can check both Joseph and ash. Everything's cool except e gets poisoned. But if e manages to redirect an attack to him the following night, he lives.
Not getting suspicion is scummy because town is going to get suspected by other town and by scum wanting mislynch. But in this game, scum teams don't know each other, so they will suspect each other as much as town, save their single partner. So, why is it a thing here?I strongly disagree with this. If I was scum in this setup, I would try to figure out who the other scumteam was and then avoid lynching them. And then try to push lynches on people that seemed more like scummy town.
Why would scum sincerely scumhunt and participate in lynching people that they really thought were members of the other team? That makes no sense to me.
Yes, if they know, they don't want to lynch the other scum. But the point is they don't know.Uh. How do you know this? Yeah, odds are they can't know for sure aside from a result or something...but man, scum is obviously going to be thinking about who the other team is.
Yes, if they know, they don't want to lynch the other scum. But the point is they don't know.Uh. How do you know this? Yeah, odds are they can't know for sure aside from a result or something...but man, scum is obviously going to be thinking about who the other team is.
How would they know he's Hydrad's partner? How would they have known it Day 1?This is a hypothetical. I'm not going to argue this further because I think you're being purposefully obtuse. I'm speaking in very general terms here about what general strategy scum I think would pursue. You seem to think that scum would generally try to honestly scumhunt and lynch members from the other team...which makes no sense to me.
Also, what happened to e being my partner?
Hey. You know that thing where you entirely misrepresent someone and put words in their mouth that you do all the time? Why don't you try taking it down by a factor of about a zillion, because it's annoying.That is exactly what I feel you are doing to me here.
Hey. You know that thing where you entirely misrepresent someone and put words in their mouth that you do all the time? Why don't you try taking it down by a factor of about a zillion, because it's annoying.That is exactly what I feel you are doing to me here.
2. He's been lurking and hasn't gotten much suspicion until now. His overall play just doesn't feel like town!e to me.
Um. Not getting suspicion--especially when combined with lurking is generally scummy. What I think you think that I'm saying (when I'm really not) is that the only explanation for this is scum having godly intuition that e is scum and subsequently defending him. I think the lack of suspicion on e is more due to his low activity and not being a part of some of the major conflicts of the game. He's been more on the sidelines of things--and also making cases is more artificial behavior that isn't really directly interacting with other players to help them read you. Making cases is pretty low-risk and an easy thing for scum to do to look like they're participating. Making cases isn't scummy in isolation, but looking at e's play as a whole, I don't really see why you think that it's so townie.Hey. You know that thing where you entirely misrepresent someone and put words in their mouth that you do all the time? Why don't you try taking it down by a factor of about a zillion, because it's annoying.That is exactly what I feel you are doing to me here.
So you're not saying that e is scummy because he hadn't gotten suspicion? I might have misread something.
He has responded to this, saying he's been IRL busy, V/LA for about 4 days, and can't access F.ds at work. These seem reasonable reasons.2. He's been lurking and hasn't gotten much suspicion until now. His overall play just doesn't feel like town!e to me.
This was the point in question.
Well my point is is that (at least part of) the reason not getting suspicion is generally scummy is because you have scum partners that aren't going to be too enthusiastic about getting you lynched. The dynamics of this game are different, so it's less of a factor here.Those are some good points. He obviously hasn't flipped his reads around much today though; I agree about scum tunneling people, kinda like how he's tunneling me. I don't think he's been making much sense lately either.
He's townie because he's been doing things to move this game along. The case on me came actually helped progress the game, and I think the case on you did as well. On Day 1 it got the game out of theory talk, and the Day 2 one also helped start things happening. It's generally all well and good. Aside from that he's generally been making sense.
Also, he's flipped around on reads, and it's felt somewhat genuine. In particular, scum on me day 1 to town on me day 2, and (town? null?) on you Day 1 to scum on you Day 2. Those things are fakeable, but it's not as easy. Scum has a pretty strong tendency to stay consistent and not change minds a lot. At any rate, it didn't feel faked to me.
Hey. You know that thing where you entirely misrepresent someone and put words in their mouth that you do all the time? Why don't you try taking it down by a factor of about a zillion, because it's annoying.
vote: IG staaahhhppp.Is this a policy vote?
You're overreacting.
PPE: You've been consistent with it this game, IMO.
That's an unannounced L-2 btw.
Would you care to share why you're voting me?
The problem is is that your reads don't really mean anything. The people you're trying to lynch are just the people that are trying to lynch you. If voting against you made someone scum, then we wouldn't need your response at all. We could just see them vote you and vote against them. An your argument boils down to "they're tunneling me so they're scummy". And you were certain I was scum for the same reasons you were certain Faust, ADK, e were scum, so you can see how this is unconvincing for me.So scum can then just vote me first and bully me into not OMGUSing them and then they're scot free--like Teproc did in MM. It's not fair that just because someone votes me first, anything I say about them is automatically meaningless.
The problem is is that your reads don't really mean anything. The people you're trying to lynch are just the people that are trying to lynch you. If voting against you made someone scum, then we wouldn't need your response at all. We could just see them vote you and vote against them. An your argument boils down to "they're tunneling me so they're scummy". And you were certain I was scum for the same reasons you were certain Faust, ADK, e were scum, so you can see how this is unconvincing for me.So scum can then just vote me first and bully me into not OMGUSing them and then they're scot free--like Teproc did in MM. It's not fair that just because someone votes me first, anything I say about them is automatically meaningless.
| 2.7 A Drowned Kernel ashersky Awaclus Faust Joseph2302 Silverspawn Witherweaver chairs Ichimaru Gin | 63 119 95 31 181 62 119 254 33 200 |
It's not that you can't find people scummy that vote for you. Obviously, sometimes they are. But they certainly can't ALWAYS be. There simply aren't enough scum in any game for that to be true.Ok. I can see that that's been true moreso this game, but I have accepted votes and cases on me in the past. I just think the ones that have been made this game are terrible and/or purposefully dishonest. I have tried taking a tack of hoping other people point out the holes...but it's too frustrating and feels passive.
It's not that you can't find people scummy that vote for you. Obviously, sometimes they are. But they certainly can't ALWAYS be. There simply aren't enough scum in any game for that to be true.Ok. I can see that that's been true moreso this game, but I have accepted votes and cases on me in the past. I just think the ones that have been made this game are terrible and/or purposefully dishonest. I have tried taking a tack of hoping other people point out the holes...but it's too frustrating and feels passive.
PPE: 1
I think Ichi is convinced he is correct, and conviction (not true knowledge like scum would have) is the only thing that I see keeping him voting for me.I'm confused. How would scum have "true knowledge" about your alignment?
I think Ichi is convinced he is correct, and conviction (not true knowledge like scum would have) is the only thing that I see keeping him voting for me.I'm confused. How would scum have "true knowledge" about your alignment?
You mean the one e wrote like 4 irl days ago?
Or is this just more empty explanation for why you're sheeping my wagon?
post count 1.eSo all claims of "e has been a lurker" don't seem so well founded, he's not been significantly lower than other people. I still think I like faust's plan earlier, he seems town to me.
2.7
A Drowned Kernel
ashersky
Awaclus
Faust
Joseph2302
Silverspawn
Witherweaver
chairs
Ichimaru Gin63
119
95
31
181
62
119
254
33
200
Ichi mentioned lurking and so I thought I would do a quick check. These numbers read fairly normal to me. No one is posting an extraordinary amount more or less than is to be expected.
vote: ADK
Ichi has so doggedly pursued my lynch that I really don't think he is scum. Back to what WW said about scum getting discouraged after a while. I think Ichi is convinced he is correct, and conviction (not true knowledge like scum would have) is the only thing that I see keeping him voting for me.
I'm also afraid of scum buddying me because they know they probably won't get much suspicion from me for it. I'm just paranoid in general. I should probably look into finding new ways to formulate reads on people I guess. It's things like this that still make me think you're scum though.I think Ichi is convinced he is correct, and conviction (not true knowledge like scum would have) is the only thing that I see keeping him voting for me.I'm confused. How would scum have "true knowledge" about your alignment?
Well, I was forgetting the setup for a moment. But normally, scum know scum. Here, it is a bit different. But I think application can be made for the situation
You mean the one you refuse to talk about? I would honestly like to hear it.
Ok. Let me try.
Tell me what your case on me is.
The time has come for the Awaclus to speak. Harken ye lads and lasses, and bear witness.
I can assure you it won't work out so well here--unless you're scum that is.The time has come for the Awaclus to speak. Harken ye lads and lasses, and bear witness.
Why? This worked out super well D1!
I can assure you it won't work out so well here--unless you're scum that is.The time has come for the Awaclus to speak. Harken ye lads and lasses, and bear witness.
Why? This worked out super well D1!
Vote: Awaclus, for unannounced, unexplained L-2 vote.
Because I'm not convinced Ichi is scum.Vote: Awaclus, for unannounced, unexplained L-2 vote.
why do people always call that scummy?
Derphammers are a thing man. Him withholding his supposed reasons is bad too.Vote: Awaclus, for unannounced, unexplained L-2 vote.
why do people always call that scummy?
Derphammers are a thing man. Him withholding his supposed reasons is bad too.Vote: Awaclus, for unannounced, unexplained L-2 vote.
why do people always call that scummy?
PPE: 1
Vote: Awaclus, for unannounced, unexplained L-2 vote.
They are a thing. There's no reason to on purpose not announce L-2, L-1 etc. unless you're scum.Derphammers are a thing man. Him withholding his supposed reasons is bad too.Vote: Awaclus, for unannounced, unexplained L-2 vote.
why do people always call that scummy?
PPE: 1
uh. Really? I don't think so. There was a phase when it happened a few games in a row, but generally....no. They are not a thing.
They are a thing. There's no reason to on purpose not announce L-2, L-1 etc. unless you're scum.
Can't find the post for it. I was probably away/busy/ill at the time.Vote: Awaclus, for unannounced, unexplained L-2 vote.
You didn't complain when I did the exact same thing D1.
They are a thing. There's no reason to on purpose not announce L-2, L-1 etc. unless you're scum.
Is there a reason to on purpose not announce L-3, L-4, L-5 and L-6 if you're town? No wait, you said "L-2, L-1 etc.", so I guess you already answered that and we should start announcing how many votes it takes to lynch every time we vote for someone.
I'm just paranoid
Dah. The semantical nitpicks are starting to get super annoying. Announcing L-1 and L-2 is the tradition and for good reason.They are a thing. There's no reason to on purpose not announce L-2, L-1 etc. unless you're scum.
Is there a reason to on purpose not announce L-3, L-4, L-5 and L-6 if you're town? No wait, you said "L-2, L-1 etc.", so I guess you already answered that and we should start announcing how many votes it takes to lynch every time we vote for someone.
Can't find the post for it. I was probably away/busy/ill at the time.Vote: Awaclus, for unannounced, unexplained L-2 vote.
You didn't complain when I did the exact same thing D1.
PPE: 1
Dah. The semantical nitpicks are starting to get super annoying. Announcing L-1 and L-2 is the tradition and for good reason.They are a thing. There's no reason to on purpose not announce L-2, L-1 etc. unless you're scum.
Is there a reason to on purpose not announce L-3, L-4, L-5 and L-6 if you're town? No wait, you said "L-2, L-1 etc.", so I guess you already answered that and we should start announcing how many votes it takes to lynch every time we vote for someone.
PPE: e hahaha.
It's fine if you think otherwise.
Is this the entire point of your little discussion?It's fine if you think otherwise.
Then why complain about it?
Is this the entire point of your little discussion?It's fine if you think otherwise.
Then why complain about it?
You're entitled to your own opinion, but what that translates into in reality is other people announcing L-1 and L-2 for you--so it's not like if you truly disagree it makes any difference. It just means other people have to do stuff for you.
Never mind. I don't think you really believe that announcing L-1 and L-2 is bad or pointless,
Well you're scum. I'm not going to defend this any further. Hopefully someone else besides me thinks you guys are crazy--though with how this day is going, I don't have much hope for that happening.Never mind. I don't think you really believe that announcing L-1 and L-2 is bad or pointless,
I think it is
Never mind. I don't think you really believe that announcing L-1 and L-2 is bad or pointless,
I think it is
Did someone make a case on ADK?
I do, however, give ADK scum points for giving the slip so much weight. As scum, I found that I have a strong tendency to believe "slips" in order not to appear scumy.
my current reads in my current lynchpool:
ADK - feels off... and I he had this untypically emotional fight with Ichi. And I don't like how fast he gave up upon Ichi's town slip. Also, his scum read on me came out of nowhere.
Hydrad - Hydrad is hard to read, but I don't like his recent play. Plus he's been blending in.
Awaclus - has been blending in even more
WW - I can't read WW
chairs - kind of blending in but also making sense. feels normal.
IG - feels really genuine. I think with scum!IG you usually feel like something is wrong.
so, ADk, was
- fighting (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.msg468233#msg468233) the massclaim (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.msg468293#msg468293)
- voting for XP (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.msg468239#msg468239) because he claimed
- overjustifies (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.msg468246#msg468246) his actions
- says Ichi has a super towny role (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.0;all), but then he votes Ichi (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.msg469354#msg469354) after he makes a good post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.msg469345#msg469345), and then there is this huge (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.msg469374#msg469374) fight (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.msg469461#msg469461) with him (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.msg469502#msg469502).
- then there's the town slip reaction (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.msg469523#msg469523)
well and now he put Hydrad at L-2 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.msg469957#msg469957) put unvoted in the same post because Hydrad... made a response?
well, a lot of that isn't necessarily scummy. but it seems different from how he usually plays.
For now, I still like my vote on Hydrad
can we lynch ADK now? And I am supposed to target faust, correct?
I'm not necessarily against an ADK lynch, but I'd rather lynch Ichi.
I'm not necessarily against an ADK lynch, but I'd rather lynch Ichi.
that just makes me feel better about the ADK lynch
I'm not necessarily against an ADK lynch, but I'd rather lynch Ichi.
that just makes me feel better about the ADK lynch
Why?
I'm not necessarily against an ADK lynch, but I'd rather lynch Ichi.
that just makes me feel better about the ADK lynch
Why?
because you're scummy. you're lurking and almost not contributing, and still have received almost no pressure
I'm sorry that you're wrong
I'm sorry that you're wrong
It is my town meta to lurk and not contribute in RMMs, and receiving no pressure is not suspicious because
- I'm towny, so it's just natural that nobody is finding me scummy
- Scum is divided and one of them is dead now, so the effect of scum not putting pressure on their partners is marginal
I'm sorry that you're wrong
It is my town meta to lurk and not contribute in RMMs, and receiving no pressure is not suspicious because
- I'm towny, so it's just natural that nobody is finding me scummy
- Scum is divided and one of them is dead now, so the effect of scum not putting pressure on their partners is marginal
not receiving pressure is also towny because scum likes to play safe. And you're not towny.
I'm sorry that you're wrong
It is my town meta to lurk and not contribute in RMMs, and receiving no pressure is not suspicious because
- I'm towny, so it's just natural that nobody is finding me scummy
- Scum is divided and one of them is dead now, so the effect of scum not putting pressure on their partners is marginal
not receiving pressure is also towny because scum likes to play safe. And you're not towny.
VOTE ME PLEASE VOTE FOR ME INSTEAD OF ADK
I'm sorry that you're wrong
It is my town meta to lurk and not contribute in RMMs, and receiving no pressure is not suspicious because
- I'm towny, so it's just natural that nobody is finding me scummy
- Scum is divided and one of them is dead now, so the effect of scum not putting pressure on their partners is marginal
not receiving pressure is also towny because scum likes to play safe. And you're not towny.
VOTE ME PLEASE VOTE FOR ME INSTEAD OF ADK
I'M TRYING NOT TO
Ichi is town, can't you see that?
Yeah... I think I'm back to Vote: IchiWhy am I not surprised.
Will you be humbled when I flip town? I somehow doubt that.Ichi is town, can't you see that?
No. I'm a Pickpocket, not a Cop. Furthermore, he isn't town, so that also contributes towards me not seeing it.
I would like more from Awaclus.Dis.
Could you refresh me on your case against faust?Uh. I made one D1 which some people thought was good (and then ADK voted me right afterwards. That one is here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.msg469345#msg469345).
I might reread Awaclus.
I might reread Awaclus.
You should.
What do you do as scum in RMM?
What do you do as scum in RMM?
I think I'd probably explain my votes. It's what I do as scum in regular games, but somehow I got away with it in the Blarnia Mafia.
What do you do as scum in RMM?
I think I'd probably explain my votes. It's what I do as scum in regular games, but somehow I got away with it in the Blarnia Mafia.
But then it's easy enough to just not explain your vote, as scum.
What do you do as scum in RMM?
I think I'd probably explain my votes. It's what I do as scum in regular games, but somehow I got away with it in the Blarnia Mafia.
But then it's easy enough to just not explain your vote, as scum.
It's not as easy as you would think!
Why are you all ignoring the single counterclaim issue that came from the entire mass claim thing?
One of Joseph and silverspawn is lying. We should be lynching there.
Why are you all ignoring the single counterclaim issue that came from the entire mass claim thing?
One of Joseph and silverspawn is lying. We should be lynching there.
Joseph was lying. He admitted it (finally).
Why are you all ignoring the single counterclaim issue that came from the entire mass claim thing?
One of Joseph and silverspawn is lying. We should be lynching there.
Joseph was lying. He admitted it (finally).
I mean, one of them is lying about who they targeted last night. Yes, we know Joseph lied about his role, but I'm saying the two of them contradicted each other's night actions. So one of them is lying.
Faust, why Ichi now? If anything the recent back and forths have left me feeling that he's being more genuine.
I tried to poison XP. However, he died, so I must have been roleblocked.
okay, this is interesting. I did actually target Joseph tonight - but I didn't name XP, so it should not have stopped him (reminder, I can only roleblock against a number of people, in this case 3). I named faust, IG, and myself.
and before anyone asks, I chose to do this because
1) I didn't want to be poisoned
2) my power isn't actually that great
3) IG and faust are my biggest town reads, and I think poisoning them would have been a mistake, but I could see Joseph doing it
4) I'm not actually convinced Joseph is town based on his role. I could easily see him being scum with an X-shot modifier to his poisoning, and as an alternative to his attack
needless to say, my power shouldn't have changed anything tonight, as I did not name XP.
That's not true with how Joseph phrases his power now.
That's not true with how Joseph phrases his power now.
So Joseph claims something, Silverspawn counterclaims him, then Joseph changes his claim to match the counterclaim.
Tell me again why we aren't lyching Joseph yet?
That's not true with how Joseph phrases his power now.
So Joseph claims something, Silverspawn counterclaims him, then Joseph changes his claim to match the counterclaim.
Tell me again why we aren't lyching Joseph yet?
Because I can confirm whether or not he's town tonight.
That's not true with how Joseph phrases his power now.
So Joseph claims something, Silverspawn counterclaims him, then Joseph changes his claim to match the counterclaim.
Tell me again why we aren't lyching Joseph yet?
Because I can confirm whether or not he's town tonight.
vote: Joseph
I agree with Ash and think he's a bajillion more times trustworthy than faust right now. faust has defended Joseph super, super heavily, and I don't like it. I also don't like e and whoever else thinking it's a good idea to let Joseph kill more people.
Why are you defending Joseph so heavily?
Why is it a good idea to let him poison more people?
Why are you defending Joseph so heavily?
Why is it a good idea to let him poison more people?
I'm defending Joseph because he's town. At least have the decency to respond to my arguments.
It's a good idea to let him poison more people because town-controlled kills are good.
It's a good idea to let him poison more people because town-controlled kills are good.
You think town vigging XP was good? You think that same vig killing two more players on his own is good?
Why are you defending Joseph so heavily?
Why is it a good idea to let him poison more people?
I'm defending Joseph because he's town. At least have the decency to respond to my arguments.
Because you THINK he's town. You can't know he's town even if you are scum.
I don't even know what to call this. It's not convincing though.It's a good idea to let him poison more people because town-controlled kills are good.
You think town vigging XP was good? You think that same vig killing two more players on his own is good?
Man. Look. I've screwed up games, you've screwed up games. That doesn't mean that we should never again be trusted to use a PR.
Why are you defending Joseph so heavily?
Why is it a good idea to let him poison more people?
I'm defending Joseph because he's town. At least have the decency to respond to my arguments.
Because you THINK he's town. You can't know he's town even if you are scum.
Unless you can refute my arguments, this is just meanimgless jibber-jabber.
I think everyone should be able to see that I'm the voice of reason in this discussion while Ichi and ash do nothing but yell "but I'm right! Joseph is a terrible player and needs to be hanged" all the time, lacking any sort of actual argument.This is nothing about Joseph's quality as a player. We have proof that his reads are suspect this game given who he targeted N1. Assuming he poisons people in a completely random fashion, it's more likely to hurt us. So why let him poison 2 more people?
So let's run this through. What are the scenarios for scum!Joseph?
1. He actually has the role he claims (or some variant thereof)
First let me state that I think this unlikely because giving scum an extra kill is quite impossible to balance. But okay, let's for a moment work under the assumption that this is possible. What does he do last night? He targets Xerxes with it. I mean, it's conceivable that he lied about this, but really why? With roles confirming stuff, this is dangerous. So we'd have to assume he tells the truth about targeting Xerxes. This makes little sense for scum. Scum targets the player they attack? Why? It robs them off a night kill - and it doesn't even look good on them.
This case is hardly possible. Occam's razor tells us to dismiss it.
2. He lied about this role.
Okay. So he might have another role. This is something we can make sure I can uncover tonight, with little possibility of me dying. But I doubt even this is the case. I mean, what sort of super-crappy fakeclaim is this? If he lied, why claim to have targeted Xerxes? He did the night attack, and is afraid of being Tracked/Watched? There's no such role. Why claim something that in order to work needs help of some other player? Maybe to insinuate that someone is lying. But if this is the case, then why do a full turn before it even plays out? Sorry, but I don't really see this either.
Okay, so there's this chance that he has a role Poisoner that does something different. This would be extremely misleading, like close-to-bastard misleading. It's convention here that mafiascum names are mafiascum roles, and breaking that should at least be announced pregame. And Arch knows about Posioning, he used it in RMM11 I think.
So there's no conceivable scenario where Joseph is scum for me. Still, if you want to be really sure, I can check him tonight. But why would we lynch him? Makes zero sense to me.
Scumhunting is pointless.
Scumhunting is pointless.
Since we've come to this point, I don't see any need for further discussion.
So let's run this through. What are the scenarios for scum!Joseph?
1. He actually has the role he claims (or some variant thereof)
First let me state that I think this unlikely because giving scum an extra kill is quite impossible to balance. But okay, let's for a moment work under the assumption that this is possible. What does he do last night? He targets Xerxes with it. I mean, it's conceivable that he lied about this, but really why? With roles confirming stuff, this is dangerous. So we'd have to assume he tells the truth about targeting Xerxes. This makes little sense for scum. Scum targets the player they attack? Why? It robs them off a night kill - and it doesn't even look good on them.
This case is hardly possible. Occam's razor tells us to dismiss it.
2. He lied about this role.
Okay. So he might have another role. This is something we can make sure I can uncover tonight, with little possibility of me dying. But I doubt even this is the case. I mean, what sort of super-crappy fakeclaim is this? If he lied, why claim to have targeted Xerxes? He did the night attack, and is afraid of being Tracked/Watched? There's no such role. Why claim something that in order to work needs help of some other player? Maybe to insinuate that someone is lying. But if this is the case, then why do a full turn before it even plays out? Sorry, but I don't really see this either.
Okay, so there's this chance that he has a role Poisoner that does something different. This would be extremely misleading, like close-to-bastard misleading. It's convention here that mafiascum names are mafiascum roles, and breaking that should at least be announced pregame. And Arch knows about Posioning, he used it in RMM11 I think.
So there's no conceivable scenario where Joseph is scum for me. Still, if you want to be really sure, I can check him tonight. But why would we lynch him? Makes zero sense to me.
As for responding to your "arguments" I assume you mean this big pile of misdirection right here.
I've already address #1 -- he has a killing role, it's called MAFIA.
As for #2, is it worth letting scum to live for another day and kill another night just so you can get his role name? Poisoner is a scum name, after all, and you are playing the "mafiascum names are sacrosanct" card, so Poisoner should be scum (or SK). But even if this was normal, and you get "Roleblocker" as his name, then woo, you've DONE NOTHING BUT LET HIM KILL PEOPLE and LET SCUM LIVE.
Why would we do that? Why? On the off-chance that he is a Poisoner, at which point we still don't know his alignment?
Scumhunting is pointless.
Since we've come to this point, I don't see any need for further discussion.
Really? Faking quotes from me? Fuck this. I'm done. Either you get modkilled or I quit.
vote: faust. I refuse to believe that town!faust would play this way.
PPE: 1
I posted this before what Ash said. I feel like you aren't giving anything we say a fair shot--and then acting like we're saying stuff we aren't actually saying. Letting Joseph kill more people given probability and his claimed target for N1 just seems insane!vote: faust. I refuse to believe that town!faust would play this way.
PPE: 1
Which way exactly?
I posted this before what Ash said. I feel like you aren't giving anything we say a fair shot--and then acting like we're saying stuff we aren't actually saying. Letting Joseph kill more people given probability and his claimed target for N1 just seems insane!vote: faust. I refuse to believe that town!faust would play this way.
PPE: 1
Which way exactly?
I mean, it doesn't bother me that much, it just seems anti-town and more focused on needling people and responding to things indirectly with your own spin on them.
Perfect example of what I was talking about. We have other options. We could have Joseph not use his power and have someone check to make sure he doesn't (do we have a role that can do that?). Plus, I don't see much compelling evidence for him being town at this point.I posted this before what Ash said. I feel like you aren't giving anything we say a fair shot--and then acting like we're saying stuff we aren't actually saying. Letting Joseph kill more people given probability and his claimed target for N1 just seems insane!vote: faust. I refuse to believe that town!faust would play this way.
PPE: 1
Which way exactly?
I mean, it doesn't bother me that much, it just seems anti-town and more focused on needling people and responding to things indirectly with your own spin on them.
So let me get this straight. You say we should lynch a town player because he made a wrong decision? Well, thanks, but I'd prefer to lynch the scum.
Perfect example of what I was talking about. We have other options. We could have Joseph not use his power and have someone check to make sure he doesn't (do we have a role that can do that?). Plus, I don't see much compelling evidence for him being town at this point.
And yeah. It's actually better to lynch town!Joseph then have Joseph kill 2 townies. So actually, yes.
I think everyone should be able to see that I'm the voice of reason in this discussion while Ichi and ash do nothing but yell "but I'm right! Joseph is a terrible player and needs to be hanged" all the time, lacking any sort of actual argument.
"feeling" like he's going to hit scum means basically nothing. The numbers don't lie.
And plus he claims to have targeted XP N1, which is awful.
ADK has been lurking somewhat lately, and I don't believe he posted anything about being VLA.
Then we can have another night of actions. Lynch Joseph if he doesn't tell the truth about his role (or maybe if he does) tomorrow. Then we can all die of poison. Then lynch chairs for lurking (because that just seems like the sort of thing we would do at that point...not saying it would be right). Then have a crazy lylo situation that I choose wrong in (again. but seriously I think I am 0/2 in those type of situations)
vote count 2.e
A Drowned Kernel (4): silverspawn, 2.71828....., Witherweaver, chairs
Witherweaver (1): faust
Ichimaru Gin (1): Awaclus
Joseph2302 (1): ashersky,
Awaclus (1): A Drowned Kernel
faust (1): Ichimaru Gin
not voting: joseph2302
faust and Ichi, you two seem to be online. Let's hammer ADK!
ADK has been lurking somewhat lately, and I don't believe he posted anything about being VLA.
No one has lurked this game. Just because you have posted SO much does not mean that others are lurking. Believe me, I know how this feels. Read my early games. I was all about lynching lurkers. But...now I am one of those people who actually has a job that takes up time. So I am a "lurker" and I feel much differently about the issue.
Nah, I'd rather do Ichi.
PPE: let's lynch faust.
Nah, I'd rather do Ichi.
well, witherweaver isn't happening today, so might as well vote there
I'm not happening either. There.
vote:the happeningADK
Well, we still got time, right? And I still have this issue with ash which is unresolved, and I'd hate to let it stand while we go into night, then one of us dies and we have to wait till the end of the game to clear things up. Like, that would make me feel bad.I can respect that. We should wait. We still have like 3 days.
So. Someone out there is lying about the whole Joseph affair, and we need to know who. So here's my plan to do this.
Tonight, everyone targets Awaclus. With the exception of Awaclus himself, who targets me. What are the consequences?
- due to e's redirection, everything actually targets e.
- I get a redirected to e and get a result on everyone else (not e himself though)
- since ash gets redirected to e, he can confirm e's role (name).
- Awaclus, who gets the results, effectively cannot be night killed, since attacks would be redirected to e.
- e gets poisoned. Now that's not so good. But e has a chance of saving himself if he redirects an attack onto himself the following night.
At the end of the night, we can at least say that no role name was fake. We can then talk about whether some role name might actually do different stuff from what is claimed, but I think most of them are rather clear. So then we know either who's lying, or we know that one of Joseph/silver is lying.
I'm okay with lynching Ichi today, because his role name could actually stand for some kind of roleblocking power.
Ok. We can wait. And then lynch ADK.
So, now the only thing to really discuss is night actions.So. Someone out there is lying about the whole Joseph affair, and we need to know who. So here's my plan to do this.
Tonight, everyone targets Awaclus. With the exception of Awaclus himself, who targets me. What are the consequences?
- due to e's redirection, everything actually targets e.
- I get a redirected to e and get a result on everyone else (not e himself though)
- since ash gets redirected to e, he can confirm e's role (name).
- Awaclus, who gets the results, effectively cannot be night killed, since attacks would be redirected to e.
- e gets poisoned. Now that's not so good. But e has a chance of saving himself if he redirects an attack onto himself the following night.
At the end of the night, we can at least say that no role name was fake. We can then talk about whether some role name might actually do different stuff from what is claimed, but I think most of them are rather clear. So then we know either who's lying, or we know that one of Joseph/silver is lying.
I'm okay with lynching Ichi today, because his role name could actually stand for some kind of roleblocking power.
Are we still considering this plan?
So faust. Besides me, who do you think is scum?
And yeah. It's actually better to lynch town!Joseph then have Joseph kill 2 townies. So actually, yes.
And yeah. It's actually better to lynch town!Joseph then have Joseph kill 2 townies. So actually, yes.
Looking at this after a bit of sleep. This post rings all the alarm bells for me.
But if you kill me, you kill town (quite a few people seem convinced I'm town).And yeah. It's actually better to lynch town!Joseph then have Joseph kill 2 townies. So actually, yes.
Looking at this after a bit of sleep. This post rings all the alarm bells for me.
But ADK is the one who enables our glorious poisoner...
My reads are like all screwed up now though.
ADK has been lurking somewhat lately, and I don't believe he posted anything about being VLA.
But if you kill me, you kill town (quite a few people seem convinced I'm town).And yeah. It's actually better to lynch town!Joseph then have Joseph kill 2 townies. So actually, yes.
Looking at this after a bit of sleep. This post rings all the alarm bells for me.
If you don't kill me, then I can poison 1-2 people, and if they're both town, it's quite likely at least one will get attacked anyway in N2 or N3, so there will probably only be 1 mispoison, but we could lynch scum today instead.
Plus, if I hit scum, that's also really good.
Idea - why don't we direct Joseph's targets? That way, he either has to do as we say, or he'll at least make himself obv!scum once those people start dying. The only claimed roleblocker is me, and I would promise not to target him this time.
opinions? ash?
I think 2) would be risky if people think I'm scum, but if you think I'm scum, then lynch me instead. Assuming people think I'm town, then this risk is low.Idea - why don't we direct Joseph's targets? That way, he either has to do as we say, or he'll at least make himself obv!scum once those people start dying. The only claimed roleblocker is me, and I would promise not to target him this time.
opinions? ash?
Well.. there are some issues.
1) Scum can effectively block Joseph's poisoning. Though, they'd have to give up a "half kill" to do this. But it's probably still worth it. Of course, they'd have to know (a) who Joseph Poisoned, and (b) that that target is Mafia. I'm guessing a single faction can't target themselves, but the other faction could.
2) If Joseph is scum, his targets being public is effectively telling the other team who can be killed.
Idea - why don't we direct Joseph's targets? That way, he either has to do as we say, or he'll at least make himself obv!scum once those people start dying. The only claimed roleblocker is me, and I would promise not to target him this time.
opinions? ash?
Well.. there are some issues.
1) Scum can effectively block Joseph's poisoning. Though, they'd have to give up a "half kill" to do this. But it's probably still worth it. Of course, they'd have to know (a) who Joseph Poisoned, and (b) that that target is Mafia. I'm guessing a single faction can't target themselves, but the other faction could.
2) If Joseph is scum, his targets being public is effectively telling the other team who can be killed.
I don't want to lynch anyone until the current situation with Ash is resolved.
I need a turkey and ham sub for RMM23: Deus Ex Machina. PM myself and sudgy and we'll hook you up.
Also, a possible extension for the time on our deadline between the replacement request and the replacement is filled?I would support this, as the game has effectively stopped until we know what's happening about that.
Remarkably, this is almost exactly how I feel as well. I'm less certain on Joseph, Awaclus, and chairs though. Yeah, I'm not sure I want to lynch ADK considering whose pushing his wagon.So faust. Besides me, who do you think is scum?
Ha. Good question. I'm still not having the best of feelings on WW, and I'm wary of silver. I'm also not quite convinced of e's townieness, though I'm willing to give him another day.
chairs, Awaclus and Joseph are town reads. Also slight town on ashersky. I'm pretty null on ADK, but I don't like the wagon - too many scumreads on it.
My scumread on e is greater. But you're acting awfully nervous there considering that no one else seems to care what I think.I don't see anything nervous about pointing out your inconsistency, but given that you're scum, it's not surprising that you're trying to deflect from my point
So, deadline in 1 day huh.
I'm still not sure who I want to lynch. I still have a townread on silver though.
Only do that if you think I'm scum.So, deadline in 1 day huh.
I'm still not sure who I want to lynch. I still have a townread on silver though.
I encourage you to vote: joseph.
Also, was there something that I was supposed to do tonight?
So. Someone out there is lying about the whole Joseph affair, and we need to know who. So here's my plan to do this.So yes Awaclus, you target faust. Assuming we're using this plan.
Tonight, everyone targets Awaclus. With the exception of Awaclus himself, who targets me. What are the consequences?
- due to e's redirection, everything actually targets e.
- I get a redirected to e and get a result on everyone else (not e himself though)
- since ash gets redirected to e, he can confirm e's role (name).
- Awaclus, who gets the results, effectively cannot be night killed, since attacks would be redirected to e.
- e gets poisoned. Now that's not so good. But e has a chance of saving himself if he redirects an attack onto himself the following night.
At the end of the night, we can at least say that no role name was fake. We can then talk about whether some role name might actually do different stuff from what is claimed, but I think most of them are rather clear. So then we know either who's lying, or we know that one of Joseph/silver is lying.
I'm okay with lynching Ichi today, because his role name could actually stand for some kind of roleblocking power.
vote: Joseph
If Joseph gets enough votes I will move to him. We do need a lynch though, and I think ADK is a good one. I will be around for another few hours tonight, will check back in tomorrow morning before I head to work, but won't be around at deadline
Joseph, if you don't get lynched, can I trust you to poison e?
Also, was there something that I was supposed to do tonight?So. Someone out there is lying about the whole Joseph affair, and we need to know who. So here's my plan to do this.So yes Awaclus, you target faust. Assuming we're using this plan.
Tonight, everyone targets Awaclus. With the exception of Awaclus himself, who targets me. What are the consequences?
- due to e's redirection, everything actually targets e.
- I get a redirected to e and get a result on everyone else (not e himself though)
- since ash gets redirected to e, he can confirm e's role (name).
- Awaclus, who gets the results, effectively cannot be night killed, since attacks would be redirected to e.
- e gets poisoned. Now that's not so good. But e has a chance of saving himself if he redirects an attack onto himself the following night.
At the end of the night, we can at least say that no role name was fake. We can then talk about whether some role name might actually do different stuff from what is claimed, but I think most of them are rather clear. So then we know either who's lying, or we know that one of Joseph/silver is lying.
I'm okay with lynching Ichi today, because his role name could actually stand for some kind of roleblocking power.
I will note that the plan quoted by Joseph protects Joseph (from me and others) at night.
Another point against Joseph and his valiant protectors
What's the case against ADK anyway?
Joseph, if you don't get lynched, can I trust you to poison e?Yes, if I don't get lynched, I will poison e.
I will note that the plan quoted by Joseph protects Joseph (from me and others) at night.True, but we're not using it. Plus it was the only actual plan proposed.
Another point against Joseph and his valiant protectors
I agree, there's nothing there that really says town to me, he seems a lot less active than usual. His N1 action could be town or scum (giving me the 1-shot doubling power). Is ADK still L-1?What's the case against ADK anyway?
ADK spent most of Day 1 not doing much and jumping on convenient wagons. He picked up a bit in the latter part of Day 1, but then spent about all of Day 2 just sitting on my wagon with a weak reason and no kind of effort to determine whether or not I'm town. My wagon was the kind of wagon scum could excuse themselves from after a mislynch ("Well, he was so anti-town..."). Basically, he hasn't done any scumhunting. Town!ADK is a pretty active and somewhat aggressive scumhunter. He usually finds his own reasons for things and generally has a few points that are his own and not seen or agreed by other players. I haven't seen any evidence of that this game. It's possible he's simply disengaged from this one, but he feels to me here like he has in other scum games. Also, I think ADK is a little more likely to be disengaged as scum than as town.
To a reread of him yourself and see if you see my points.
See, posts like that are why I'm not all that confident in Joseph's towniness.
See, posts like that are why I'm not all that confident in Joseph's towniness.
He has been like this in the past as town.
Also, if he's scum, don't we just learn about it tomorrow? We can lynch him then.
I'm not really sure what to say here. Yes, I've disengaged a bit, but I also feel that I've done my share of scumhunting here. I think that most of the "case" against me is an overblown case of OMGUS.
If I do get lynched, WW, e, and silverspawn are still my top scumreads. I'd definitely look at my wagon for scum in the following days, as I'm pretty sure I'm a lynch of convenience here.
Did you reread ADK, Faust? Did you disagree?
silver has the issue that I don't think he's played his role in a very pro-town way.
I'd absolutely do Ichi, but noone seems to agree with me, I don't get the feeling that a wagon on him is viable.
Did you reread ADK, Faust? Did you disagree?
Sorry, no time for rereading... the points against ADK are reasonable, but not strong in any way. And it really bugs me that all my scum reads are on the wagon.
Did you reread ADK, Faust? Did you disagree?
Sorry, no time for rereading... the points against ADK are reasonable, but not strong in any way. And it really bugs me that all my scum reads are on the wagon.
Well, okay, but it would help. And I don't particularly agree with your scum reads, and obviously I'm not scum, so that's not a very compelling point for me.
Did you reread ADK, Faust? Did you disagree?
Sorry, no time for rereading... the points against ADK are reasonable, but not strong in any way. And it really bugs me that all my scum reads are on the wagon.
Well, okay, but it would help. And I don't particularly agree with your scum reads, and obviously I'm not scum, so that's not a very compelling point for me.
Well, I didn't expect to convince you to vote for yourself.
silver has the issue that I don't think he's played his role in a very pro-town way.
I'd absolutely do Ichi, but noone seems to agree with me, I don't get the feeling that a wagon on him is viable.
I don't really get that.. if I had Silver's power it makes perfect sense to protect myself against Joseph, as well as my top town reads... why would I protect anyone else?
I guess the other option is to protect self and town reads against top scum read, but then you could be wrong with your scum read and end up Roleblocking town.
So, okay, Joseph being Roleblocked would prevent "confirmation" of his role, but that confirmation is pretty iffy anyway. I don't really see how Silver made a bad choice here.
I think deadline was 3:30 EST, so that's in three hours.
Well, no, but you could convince me that ADK is not a good lynch.
silver has the issue that I don't think he's played his role in a very pro-town way.
I'd absolutely do Ichi, but noone seems to agree with me, I don't get the feeling that a wagon on him is viable.
I don't really get that.. if I had Silver's power it makes perfect sense to protect myself against Joseph, as well as my top town reads... why would I protect anyone else?
I guess the other option is to protect self and town reads against top scum read, but then you could be wrong with your scum read and end up Roleblocking town.
So, okay, Joseph being Roleblocked would prevent "confirmation" of his role, but that confirmation is pretty iffy anyway. I don't really see how Silver made a bad choice here.
Self-preservation is usually more of a scum thing. Protecting the way he did (himself against a (likely) town killing role is exactly what scum wants to do. Town wants to block the mafia kill, not kills that potentially come from town. And silver not protecting Xerxes is also a strike against him, seeing how he figured out that great plan (which would not actually have worked) to ot the scum.
That's a good point about XP, but then again Joseph trying to kill XP is a huge strike against him.
And why would you poison XP?XP's role looked like it had very little town utility, so I thought he was scum.
Because he was fairly townie Day 1, and there were non-townie choices. (Like, ADK, or just anyone off wagon from Hydrad. That would have provided more info even if it hit town.)
[/quote
What's the scum narrative for Joseph's team targeting Xerxes with both the attack and Joseph's power? Makes no sense to me.
Because he was fairly townie Day 1, and there were non-townie choices. (Like, ADK, or just anyone off wagon from Hydrad. That would have provided more info even if it hit town.)
Fixed:Because he was fairly townie Day 1, and there were non-townie choices. (Like, ADK, or just anyone off wagon from Hydrad. That would have provided more info even if it hit town.)
What's the scum narrative for Joseph's team targeting Xerxes with both the attack and Joseph's power? Makes no sense to me.
I'm not really sure what to say here. Yes, I've disengaged a bit, but I also feel that I've done my share of scumhunting here. I think that most of the "case" against me is an overblown case of OMGUS.
If I do get lynched, WW, e, and silverspawn are still my top scumreads. I'd definitely look at my wagon for scum in the following days, as I'm pretty sure I'm a lynch of convenience here.
How could it be OMGUS when you were a high scum read of mine far before you starting trying to get me lynched?
I'm not really sure what to say here. Yes, I've disengaged a bit, but I also feel that I've done my share of scumhunting here. I think that most of the "case" against me is an overblown case of OMGUS.
If I do get lynched, WW, e, and silverspawn are still my top scumreads. I'd definitely look at my wagon for scum in the following days, as I'm pretty sure I'm a lynch of convenience here.
How could it be OMGUS when you were a high scum read of mine far before you starting trying to get me lynched?
I'm talking more about silver, ichi and e.
I'd absolutely do Ichi, but noone seems to agree with me, I don't get the feeling that a wagon on him is viable.Stop being so scummy! You're reducing your accountability when lynching someone other than me.
Each night, you may target a player. They will receive the following item that night:
1-shot Duplicator: At night, you may use this to perform a Role an additional time.
We can also verify my role by just lynching my target tomorrow. That would be cool, but I'm not sure how much utility it would offer.
I would be okay lynching Ashersky today.
Huh, neat. Makes me want to lynch an ADK.
Or we could always lynch Ashersky. Because that's cool.
e, who was your target?
Ashersky
Why?(In response to e above; I was kind of disappointed here.)
Yeah, this feels super disingenuous from Ichi. He's probably scum.
Lynching Ash is not so cool, I was wrong about that.
To make sure I understand.
1) each night you target a player. They become Half-Lynchproof
2) If they get lynch then
a) town survives, but all other half-lynchproofs are negated
b) scum dies, all other half-lynchproofs are intact
I like it. Sorry to ruin all your amazing plans with Ashersky though.
hm, alright. I generally wouldn't mind to be "lynched" today, though once I become an IC I'll probably just be NK'd. That is, as long as you're telling the truth.
theoretically, if we governor -> lynch every day and the target draws both attacks next night, we basically turn this into a nightless game.
Also, since we are finishing up our claims today, my role is slightly weaker than I let on. I can only redirect an action once. So had witherweaver targeted [the person I targeted] last night, the partial governing would not have redirected onto me a second time.So, you have like 1-shot redirection for each type of action that is used passively depending on what action you actually redirect?
I believe WW. I'm interested at your targets though. You said your original thought was to target the people you found scummiest and then lynch them--with your half-governor being a fail-safe if you turned out to be wrong. So Ash and SS were really your top scumreads? Ok. I can see some of your explanation for it; that makes sense. I like an e lynch today--or I could always do faust.
Also, we should look at the ADK wagon some as well.
Also, since we are finishing up our claims today, my role is slightly weaker than I let on. I can only redirect an action once. So had witherweaver targeted [the person I targeted] last night, the partial governing would not have redirected onto me a second time.
Also, since we are finishing up our claims today, my role is slightly weaker than I let on. I can only redirect an action once. So had witherweaver targeted [the person I targeted] last night, the partial governing would not have redirected onto me a second time.
Your entire role is 1-shot Redirector? There's no other part to it?
hm, alright. I generally wouldn't mind to be "lynched" today, though once I become an IC I'll probably just be NK'd. That is, as long as you're telling the truth.
theoretically, if we governor -> lynch every day and the target draws both attacks next night, we basically turn this into a nightless game.
Yeah, that's why I wanted to hold out as long as possible.
Well, scum can just kill me.
Yeah...except it's delayed by one night. So I'd target him for protection tonight, we'd lynch someone I pick tomorrow, and then he'd be protected N4.
Yeah...except it's delayed by one night. So I'd target him for protection tonight, we'd lynch someone I pick tomorrow, and then he'd be protected N4.
Did you pick me? Because that would actually work really well
Pick you as what, a lynch target for today? Yeah, you're one of em.Yeah...except it's delayed by one night. So I'd target him for protection tonight, we'd lynch someone I pick tomorrow, and then he'd be protected N4.
Did you pick me? Because that would actually work really well
yeah vote: e. There's more than a few very compelling reasons to lynch e today.
Yeah...except it's delayed by one night. So I'd target him for protection tonight, we'd lynch someone I pick tomorrow, and then he'd be protected N4.
I'd have to ask to be sure. It just says they have to be lynched though--not that they have to die.Yeah...except it's delayed by one night. So I'd target him for protection tonight, we'd lynch someone I pick tomorrow, and then he'd be protected N4.
So if one of your lynch targets is lynchproof and gets lynched but doesn't die, that counts as getting lynched for your role?
Yeah. It's a little less reads, and more due to you being half-lynch proof and one of my lynch targets.yeah vote: e. There's more than a few very compelling reasons to lynch e today.
"very compelling" is a little strong, in my opinion.
We could just lynch Ichi then. Because your role is better.Ha ha ha, no. Why would you only want to lynch out of me and WW anyway?
Regardless, Ichi should not say the target of his action, but I think it is fine for him to give the lynches he chose
Ok. I picked: WW, e, and faust for my preferred lynches. Obviously, I'm not so on board for lynching WW today. I think faust and e are great choices though.
I don't think so. I'm suspect of everyone that pushed the ADK wagon super hard as well.Ok. I picked: WW, e, and faust for my preferred lynches. Obviously, I'm not so on board for lynching WW today. I think faust and e are great choices though.
man... why pick faust. faust is town.
I don't think so. I'm suspect of everyone that pushed the ADK wagon super hard as well.Ok. I picked: WW, e, and faust for my preferred lynches. Obviously, I'm not so on board for lynching WW today. I think faust and e are great choices though.
man... why pick faust. faust is town.
Well. I asked you guys who your preferred lynches were for the next day--but everyone either blew my off...or accused me of seeking approval. You know who you are.
Ok. I picked: WW, e, and faust for my preferred lynches. Obviously, I'm not so on board for lynching WW today. I think faust and e are great choices though.
Nice to hear an objective opinion.Ok. I picked: WW, e, and faust for my preferred lynches. Obviously, I'm not so on board for lynching WW today. I think faust and e are great choices though.
Me and e are like the worst options you could have chosen.
Town! - Ashersky, faust, WW
maybe town - chairs, Joseph, Awaclus
maybe scum - silverspawn, ADK
Scum! - Ichi
I don't like WW's claim. His role has zero utility for scum, which cannot be said about any other role.
As I mentioned, the role is phrased such that the lynch is prevented only if the person shares my alignment. So if I were scum, town would be lynched and scum would be Governed.
As I mentioned, the role is phrased such that the lynch is prevented only if the person shares my alignment. So if I were scum, town would be lynched and scum would be Governed.
What I don't like is all these people keeping stuff hidden about their roles--it feels scummy.
I forget. What did XP keep hidden again?What I don't like is all these people keeping stuff hidden about their roles--it feels scummy.
Just like XP?
What I don't like is all these people keeping stuff hidden about their roles--it feels scummy.
I forget. What did XP keep hidden again?What I don't like is all these people keeping stuff hidden about their roles--it feels scummy.
Just like XP?
As I mentioned, the role is phrased such that the lynch is prevented only if the person shares my alignment. So if I were scum, town would be lynched and scum would be Governed.
Ah, didn't get that. In that case, the role would be far too strong for scum.
What I don't like is all these people keeping stuff hidden about their roles--it feels scummy.
I kinda agree, at least if this is done without town benefit. I mean ugh, what if we, at some point, HAD lynched one of WW's targets? Then we would have seen his claim as a lie to get out of it and lynched him straight after that. That's awful.
Similar things hold for e.
e: What benefit was there in hiding part of your role?
e: What benefit was there in hiding part of your role?
There is no real benefit. I mean, I could try to argue something to make it look better, but that isn't the case. The thing is, there was no real negative impact either. I was going to claim it yesterday, but no one targeted me with any actions (that I was informed of). So I just waited.
e: What benefit was there in hiding part of your role?
There is no real benefit. I mean, I could try to argue something to make it look better, but that isn't the case. The thing is, there was no real negative impact either. I was going to claim it yesterday, but no one targeted me with any actions (that I was informed of). So I just waited.
The negative impact is we don't believe you now.
What I don't like is all these people keeping stuff hidden about their roles--it feels scummy.
I kinda agree, at least if this is done without town benefit. I mean ugh, what if we, at some point, HAD lynched one of WW's targets? Then we would have seen his claim as a lie to get out of it and lynched him straight after that. That's awful.
Similar things hold for e.
But then that creates an IC.
What I don't like is all these people keeping stuff hidden about their roles--it feels scummy.
I kinda agree, at least if this is done without town benefit. I mean ugh, what if we, at some point, HAD lynched one of WW's targets? Then we would have seen his claim as a lie to get out of it and lynched him straight after that. That's awful.
Similar things hold for e.
But then that creates an IC.
Yeah - after two mislynches. Why not just claim right off the bat?
I fail to see an advantage of lynching me above Silver.
If Silver is lynched, he flips scum and I'm confirmed. If Silver is town, then I know Silver is an IC and you all know we're alignment-locked.
I fail to see an advantage of lynching me above Silver.
If Silver is lynched, he flips scum and I'm confirmed. If Silver is town, then I know Silver is an IC and you all know we're alignment-locked.
If you're scum, silver can still be town (and survive the lynch). But yeah, I prefer silver right now.
It happens if you're just an ordinary scum Governor.I fail to see an advantage of lynching me above Silver.
If Silver is lynched, he flips scum and I'm confirmed. If Silver is town, then I know Silver is an IC and you all know we're alignment-locked.
If you're scum, silver can still be town (and survive the lynch). But yeah, I prefer silver right now.
Not unless there is another Governor role around.. I can only protect people of my alignment. I guess you can make up a role for me where that would happen?
But hey, I can just confirm WW's role tonight, right? So no worries about him lying.
It happens if you're just an ordinary scum Governor.I fail to see an advantage of lynching me above Silver.
If Silver is lynched, he flips scum and I'm confirmed. If Silver is town, then I know Silver is an IC and you all know we're alignment-locked.
If you're scum, silver can still be town (and survive the lynch). But yeah, I prefer silver right now.
Not unless there is another Governor role around.. I can only protect people of my alignment. I guess you can make up a role for me where that would happen?
Man, I'm not sure Ichi claiming his lynchees was such a good idea. We're pointing out to scum who is doctored.
Man, I'm not sure Ichi claiming his lynchees was such a good idea. We're pointing out to scum who is doctored.
No, it's another independent target who is doctored/injured.
Man, I'm not sure Ichi claiming his lynchees was such a good idea. We're pointing out to scum who is doctored.
No, it's another independent target who is doctored/injured.
I know. But Ichi didn't target himself, and he likely didn't target any of his lynchees (Ichi, don't comment that!). So that gives much room for PoE for them.
Ichi: Why not pick Joseph as lynch candidate?From how people were talking, I didn't think there was a good chance of him getting lynched today.
Ichi: Why not pick Joseph as lynch candidate?From how people were talking, I didn't think there was a good chance of him getting lynched today.
I'd like to hear from him first. I'm leaning scum on him though.Ichi: Why not pick Joseph as lynch candidate?From how people were talking, I didn't think there was a good chance of him getting lynched today.
Do you still think he's scum (or, as that is apparently not the same for you, that he's worth lynching) though?
Claiming order for today:
silverspawn
Awaclus
e
Joseph
chairs
ashersky
faust
silver, you go first.
But fine, I have nothing to hide. I targeted Awaclus tonight, whom I still think might be scum, and I named you (faust), Joseph and myself.
But fine, I have nothing to hide. I targeted Awaclus tonight, whom I still think might be scum, and I named you (faust), Joseph and myself.
It makes little sense to me that you would target Awaclus, but not name ash. What's the reasoning behind that?
But fine, I have nothing to hide. I targeted Awaclus tonight, whom I still think might be scum, and I named you (faust), Joseph and myself.
It makes little sense to me that you would target Awaclus, but not name ash. What's the reasoning behind that?
why would I name ash? I almost targeted ash.
But fine, I have nothing to hide. I targeted Awaclus tonight, whom I still think might be scum, and I named you (faust), Joseph and myself.
It makes little sense to me that you would target Awaclus, but not name ash. What's the reasoning behind that?
why would I name ash? I almost targeted ash.
Because ash is a claimed investigative role, and Awaclus sabotages investigative roles?
but I'm also not sold on ash being town after his play yesterday. I don't know if I'd want to help/protect him
I also don't like how silver's action fits right into what scum wants: Block Awaclus, kill me, so my result never gets out.
I also don't like how silver's action fits right into what scum wants: Block Awaclus, kill me, so my result never gets out.
... really ... why would scum be so afraid of your result? no offense, but ash has the stronger power - if he is town. If anything, scum would want to block Awaclus and kill ash.
plus, you're not dead, are you?
I targeted faust today.
I've found myself believing Silver all game.So have I, it's strange, I don't usually.
I've found myself believing Silver all game.So have I, it's strange, I don't usually.
Phone post. Am I meant to me claiming. If so, I'll do it in 8ish hours, going bed now.I've found myself believing Silver all game.So have I, it's strange, I don't usually.
Joseph was supposed tto claim here. He didn't
Phone post. Am I meant to me claiming. If so, I'll do it in 8ish hours, going bed now.I've found myself believing Silver all game.So have I, it's strange, I don't usually.
Joseph was supposed tto claim here. He didn't
I mean, I don't think this is scum trying to sneak himself further down the claiming list, but it certainly doesn't make me feel better about you.
Nah it's not. I figured no-one would be around, so it's fine.I mean, I don't think this is scum trying to sneak himself further down the claiming list, but it certainly doesn't make me feel better about you.
Exactly what he's doing.
Nah it's not. I figured no-one would be around, so it's fine.I mean, I don't think this is scum trying to sneak himself further down the claiming list, but it certainly doesn't make me feel better about you.
Exactly what he's doing.
And I poisoned e and chairs, and also received a mail message from chairs at the start of today (i.e. after I'd poisoned him).
regulator
Blind Follower
Blind Follower
You're also up with claiming your night action. I assume you drag this out to get pushed down in the claiming list?
I can confirm silverspawn's action. I got to use Hydrad's power last night and I used it on faust, getting No Result which means that it was blocked. I didn't use my Pickpocket ability.
And anyway, before I claim:I definitely poisoned e and chairs, and received a message from chairs at start of the day. Nothing more to add.
Joseph, would you like to claim anything else? Or are you sticking with your story?
Did you clarify whether you get multiple results if someone takes multiple actions?
Also, what kinds of powers count as "Manipulative"? Redirection?
Well, I unsurprisingly investigated Joseph. I received a result. It was that he used a manipulative power last night.Wait, what? Would double-poisoning count as manipulative? Because that's literally the only thing I did.
Note, this doesn't 100% preclude the killing power he claims, but he definitely took a manipulative power last night, and he's not hiding it, which is what scum does.
As I have said forever, Joseph is lying scum.
vote: Joseph for emphasis.
He used a 1-shot Duplicator, according to him. And we know he had it, because ADK flipped. Would that count?
He used a 1-shot Duplicator, according to him. And we know he had it, because ADK flipped. Would that count?
Also, everyone has claimed but Faust?Yes.
Also, why is everyone ignoring the fact that faust derphammered (or quickhammered) ADK?
Also, why is everyone ignoring the fact that faust derphammered (or quickhammered) ADK?
Yeah. I definitely don't like that aspect either. He defended Joseph super, super heavily. And recently faust asked me questions about why I didn't name Joseph as a lynch target and whether I still thought he was scum. It's not the end of the world if we don't do one of my preferred lynches today (I still really want to lynch faust--and could also do Joseph). It's worth it if we lynch scum.Also, why is everyone ignoring the fact that faust derphammered (or quickhammered) ADK?
I wasn't around for the hammer. I'll go re-read.
Faust is scummily tied to Joseph, anyway, which I guess he would do if they are partners.
I hadn't even thought of that. I feel very confident that faust is Joseph's partner though--and would kind of like to lynch him first because he's one of my lynch targets.
What happens if we lynch one of your targets?Then whomever I chose to protect is protected from all attacks tonight.
What happens if we lynch one of your targets?Then whomever I chose to protect is protected from all attacks tonight.
Conversely, if we don't lynch one of my targets, then it takes one less attack to kill them.
You haven't claimed who's protected, right? That's a good thing either way.Yes. I have not claimed my protection target.
What if your target was already attacked? Do they just die?I'm pretty sure they wouldn't. It's phrased basically like "the amount of attacks needed to kill them that night will be reduced by one" if one of my lynch choices doesn't go through. Which makes me think that they would have to be attacked at least once on that specific night in order to die...but I'm not 100% positive. I could ask I guess. That'd be kind of weird if it went down to zero attacks needed to kill them, but I guess it's possible.
So, another thought as far as Joseph's fake claim...Because not claiming them seems scummy when everyone else is claiming their entire roles. Plus, if I've hit scum, scum have to waste half a kill to save their scum partner.
So, per his current version of his role, he can poison players, but if they are attacked by scum before dying, the poison is negated. And then, he claimed his targets in thread, so scum can negate the poison if they want, just by attacking.
So, if that was a true role, and Joseph knows this, why would he agree to claim his targets in thread? He's given scum all the knowledge and power -- if he targeted town (probable) scum just thanks him for the extra kills. If he targeted scum, scum just attacks scum and they don't die.
There was no town reason for him to do what we did, if he really had that town role. He didn't even try to argue against the claim call.
So many crazy scum things.
Vote: ashersky I have things to say, soon.
If Joseph hit scum as scum, then he hit an unknown partner. That means to negate, they have to attack themselves. (Or Josephs team has to change their mind on their read.). I'm not sure its even possible to target yourself with a kill (or half kill) as scum. I brought this up yesterday.
Actually, no. You know what? Fuck this.
vote: faust
Let's make this what you want it to be, a showdown between us. You've been hounding me since yesterday, using passive-aggressive crap and all to try to run this. I'm only still playing because a arch couldn't find a replacement. But that's what you wanted, right?
So let's do it. Let everyone choose who they trust. Both our names have come up as possible reps for f.ds at the Mafia Championships. Here it is, then. Loser refuses to be put forward as a candidate. Let's see who really deserves it.
I am confident that my result validates my strong read on Joseph and his crazy backpedal on his claim on D2 with his convenient targeting. Your crazy defense of him throughout this whole thing ties you to him so strongly, it's partnership. You lost Hydrad, knew you were in bad shape, have to keep your partner around.
So, here it is. You and Joseph vs. me. Everyone, pick a side! Whose instincts do you trust?
If you lynch me, fine. I'll know I'm past my prime as a player and I don't deserve to be considered as f.ds's rep. But as of right now, I definitely believe in myself, and I think you should, too.
The gauntlet is thrown, just like you wanted, faust. Let the one the community thinks is the best man win.
I am not a fan of two of my townreads being "the only option" today.Me neither, I'm still thinking both are town.
Linking this with the contest includes factors in said contest which don't belong there.Yeah I agree with this. Let what happens in this game stay relevant to this game. My siding with Ash here is just about who I trust this game.
Honestly if Faust is scum, he's played this game pretty fantastically so far and exactly emulated his town meta. I have a hard time believing Faust is scum here.I disagree. He may have fooled almost everyone else, but I've had a scumread on him since D1. Unfortunately, no one ever seemed on board with lynching him and was also content to follow his plans and claim order and whatever.
Man, you just made up a scum read out of the blue on Day 1. You can't honestly expect us to place any weight on that.How can you think faust is town?
Man, you just made up a scum read out of the blue on Day 1. You can't honestly expect us to place any weight on that.How can you think faust is town?
That may be the way you see it, but I disagree. I don't expect people to sheep me all the time or that my reads and/or cases are the most convincing, but I feel my intuition on faust was solid. It wasn't OMGUS--I felt the particular way he tunneled me was very insincere, and he was constantly twisting my words. Plus a bunch of other suspicious stuff I can't remember right now.
I don't require your approval or belief in my reads, just the acknowledgement that they existed. You could be faust's partner for all I know.
Faust is tunneling me.
He may have fooled almost everyone else, but I've had a scumread on him since D1.
Yep, a whole day after Faust saying about two things about me and doing nothing even remotely close to tunneling. Thank you.
2) If Faust is scum and you're town, and you're going to be all high and mighty about this at the end of the game, I'm going to be pissed off, because your "scum read" on Faust was 100% him putting one vote on you, no matter what you say. It's like making a bad play in poker and ending up winning the pot from luck.Dude. Do I really get high and mighty? I think I can tell people's general opinion of me and know where I stand in terms of skill.
So what is this? Town!WW preemtively protecting his ego because I--such a lowly player who doesn't think about his votes at all, and operates as some sort of fucking OMGUS automaton--was right about faust and you weren't?
Or scum!WW spamming the thread and defending his partner?
faust. I feel like you're being purposefully dishonest in voting me and your analysis of my role.
You already seemingly acknowledged that you understood that the # of players I pick after my original target is determined the same was as SS--yet you omit that from your analysis post. I never used the word Doctor to describe my role--yet you act as if I did. My role protects my target from all attacks if one of the other people I choose gets lynched. You rate numerous, numerous other people as having roles with higher scum utility and lower town utility. I just don't get it.
I don't really buy that you aren't paying attention. I think you're doing this on purpose and it makes me want to vote: faust. I can make my lynch choices public the following day so it can be guaranteed that my target gets protected during the night--assuming that at least one of my choices is likable to most people. So it is not that difficult to ensure that my role doesn't "backfire".
I don't like how e gives you town credit for claiming last and pretending that you had a reason for it when your supposed role does not warrant that at all. You know you don't have any good reason to vote me--and it seems you purposefully refrained from stating any, so I can only conclude that you're either scum or doing this to get a reaction out of me (maybe both).
The interesting question there that you failed to ask was how town utility/scum utility factored into his reads.Isn't that kind of obvious? Just his opinion? I mean, does he have a spreadsheet with every mafia role ever--including some that are likely unique to this game--already setup with point values assigned to everything? Is there some sort of equation used to calculate the strength of a single PR for each alignment? (the last question is honest btw, I don't know a ton about setup theory, so maybe there is a mathematical basis for his point values).
The thought was: so many roles have limited/dual utility. Is scum going to lie about their scum utility, or admit everything fully?Wouldn't they lie about their scum utility? A lot of people kept stuff hidden about their roles which they revealed much later--which I think is scummy.
Well the "I was right about him all along" thing irks me, because I strongly disagree with your treatment of him Day 1 even if you are town and he is scum.So you aren't denying you see me that way then.
I can make my lynch choices public the following day so it can be guaranteed that my target gets protected during the night--assuming that at least one of my choices is likable to most people. So it is not that difficult to ensure that my role doesn't "backfire".
Well the "I was right about him all along" thing irks me, because I strongly disagree with your treatment of him Day 1 even if you are town and he is scum.So you aren't denying you see me that way then.
Sure, it's fine to disagree with that. My read on him grew stronger over time while everyone treated him like obv!town.
And man, people seemed to hate all the choices I ended up picking as well--which is unfortunate.Ichi: Why not pick Joseph as lynch candidate?From how people were talking, I didn't think there was a good chance of him getting lynched today.
Well no, I don't see you as an arrogant asshole, but I do think you do the OMGUS thing way too much.Ok. I can see that as a strategy, it seems to not be working so well anymore. I'll likely be giving it up at least temporarliy--though I'm sure people will find me scummy for not OMGUSing them then.
And I'm not saying that I'm a better player than you are.Yeah, I don't really like the whole "who is better and worse" thing which is why I don't like the whole ash and faust duking it out in this game for a chance at the championship. Especially, one game isn't really a good measure either.
I'm wrong a lot; just look at your last scum game~
Faust is scummily tied to Joseph, anyway, which I guess he would do if they are partners.
I definitely see Faust as most likely partner, but at least I know (am super confident) he didn't lie about his role. Rolecop is often a scum power, of course....
Vote: ashersky I have things to say, soon.
Ah, the desperation of a partner, so very afraid of losing his only hope.
This is like some new type of projected OMGUS.
Actually, no. You know what? Fuck this.
vote: faust
Let's make this what you want it to be, a showdown between us. You've been hounding me since yesterday, using passive-aggressive crap and all to try to run this. I'm only still playing because a arch couldn't find a replacement. But that's what you wanted, right?
So let's do it. Let everyone choose who they trust. Both our names have come up as possible reps for f.ds at the Mafia Championships. Here it is, then. Loser refuses to be put forward as a candidate. Let's see who really deserves it.
I am confident that my result validates my strong read on Joseph and his crazy backpedal on his claim on D2 with his convenient targeting. Your crazy defense of him throughout this whole thing ties you to him so strongly, it's partnership. You lost Hydrad, knew you were in bad shape, have to keep your partner around.
So, here it is. You and Joseph vs. me. Everyone, pick a side! Whose instincts do you trust?
If you lynch me, fine. I'll know I'm past my prime as a player and I don't deserve to be considered as f.ds's rep. But as of right now, I definitely believe in myself, and I think you should, too.
The gauntlet is thrown, just like you wanted, faust. Let the one the community thinks is the best man win.
So, another thought as far as Joseph's fake claim...
So, per his current version of his role, he can poison players, but if they are attacked by scum before dying, the poison is negated. And then, he claimed his targets in thread, so scum can negate the poison if they want, just by attacking.
So, if that was a true role, and Joseph knows this, why would he agree to claim his targets in thread? He's given scum all the knowledge and power -- if he targeted town (probable) scum just thanks him for the extra kills. If he targeted scum, scum just attacks scum and they don't die.
There was no town reason for him to do what we did, if he really had that town role. He didn't even try to argue against the claim call.
So many crazy scum things.
So, another thought as far as Joseph's fake claim...
So, per his current version of his role, he can poison players, but if they are attacked by scum before dying, the poison is negated. And then, he claimed his targets in thread, so scum can negate the poison if they want, just by attacking.
So, if that was a true role, and Joseph knows this, why would he agree to claim his targets in thread? He's given scum all the knowledge and power -- if he targeted town (probable) scum just thanks him for the extra kills. If he targeted scum, scum just attacks scum and they don't die.
There was no town reason for him to do what we did, if he really had that town role. He didn't even try to argue against the claim call.
So many crazy scum things.
And, just as an icing on the cake, this is plain misleading. Scum cannot attack scum because they may not attack their own partners and don't know whether the rest is scum. Also, if that's really what you think, why not bring it up BEFORE Joseph claims anything?
So, another thought as far as Joseph's fake claim...
So, per his current version of his role, he can poison players, but if they are attacked by scum before dying, the poison is negated. And then, he claimed his targets in thread, so scum can negate the poison if they want, just by attacking.
So, if that was a true role, and Joseph knows this, why would he agree to claim his targets in thread? He's given scum all the knowledge and power -- if he targeted town (probable) scum just thanks him for the extra kills. If he targeted scum, scum just attacks scum and they don't die.
There was no town reason for him to do what we did, if he really had that town role. He didn't even try to argue against the claim call.
So many crazy scum things.
And, just as an icing on the cake, this is plain misleading. Scum cannot attack scum because they may not attack their own partners and don't know whether the rest is scum. Also, if that's really what you think, why not bring it up BEFORE Joseph claims anything?
This is a blatant lie or a scum slip. Scum can 1000000% kill their partners in any normal mafia game, so why would this be different? If they can't think game, it's because you asked and found out.
So, another thought as far as Joseph's fake claim...
So, per his current version of his role, he can poison players, but if they are attacked by scum before dying, the poison is negated. And then, he claimed his targets in thread, so scum can negate the poison if they want, just by attacking.
So, if that was a true role, and Joseph knows this, why would he agree to claim his targets in thread? He's given scum all the knowledge and power -- if he targeted town (probable) scum just thanks him for the extra kills. If he targeted scum, scum just attacks scum and they don't die.
There was no town reason for him to do what we did, if he really had that town role. He didn't even try to argue against the claim call.
So many crazy scum things.
And, just as an icing on the cake, this is plain misleading. Scum cannot attack scum because they may not attack their own partners and don't know whether the rest is scum. Also, if that's really what you think, why not bring it up BEFORE Joseph claims anything?
This is a blatant lie or a scum slip. Scum can 1000000% kill their partners in any normal mafia game, so why would this be different? If they can't think game, it's because you asked and found out.
Wait, is this really true? I remember seeing somewhere that it wasn't allowed.
Look, the scum narrative for Joseph/Faust is super clear. There have been shit claims (Joseph #1, the backpedal, admitting he targeted XP who died and was the key to our plan, Faust claiming to directly save him); they have been tied together for self-preservation (faust's non-stop, non-sensical defense of Joseph, faust's quick hammer of town, faust claiming a result to save Joseph after he's caught out -- which is why Faust wanted to go last, btw).
Well I guess that last question is pointless if you're scum. If you're town, well, then you have a really confusing result on Joseph if he's town.. okay, that's probably a pointless question to you.
Was e's action actually verified? He could be more of a redirector than bodyguard.
Who did e claim to target last night? He claimed it failed?
What came before was I got a mass claim to happen D1. They couldn't discuss what to say so Joseph had to make it up. From there, it just rolled on. Who discusses "when we mass claim, let's say..." On N0? We never actually mass claim and someone or three always has the "can't claim now, cAn claim tomorrow" excuse.
As for Joseph's real role? Dunno. Could have an effect that weakens players (messes with results, ability to use, etc.). That's manipulative and sort of fits his way of claiming a poisoner. He mentioned that knife/bleeding thing, which was really weird.
Well I guess that last question is pointless if you're scum. If you're town, well, then you have a really confusing result on Joseph if he's town.. okay, that's probably a pointless question to you.
Was e's action actually verified? He could be more of a redirector than bodyguard.
Who did e claim to target last night? He claimed it failed?
I gave all sorts of claiming advice to scum in Dune, fwiw.
If anyone manipulated results, seems like it'd be Silver. His role is manipulative, right?
Look, the scum narrative for Joseph/Faust is super clear. There have been shit claims (Joseph #1, the backpedal, admitting he targeted XP who died and was the key to our plan, Faust claiming to directly save him); they have been tied together for self-preservation (faust's non-stop, non-sensical defense of Joseph, faust's quick hammer of town, faust claiming a result to save Joseph after he's caught out -- which is why Faust wanted to go last, btw).Uhm... hm. I agree that it does sound like a plausible narrative. Though, I at least disagree that his defense of Joseph was nonsensical.
The scum narrative for me? You have to think I'm the biggest asshole in the world...fake fight, fake quitting, someone got Arch to fake seek a replacement, fake a result....all for what? It's pretty early to be suiciding.This is also quite compelling. I actually think there is a narrative for lying town here though, that'd make you less of an asshole.
(I will note on the record that you are insulting Archetype's integrity to think he'd help a scum player's ploy by faking a substitution search, and I am personally insulted on his behalf as a regular mod on f.ds and a mod/friend of him specifically.)well, but this really far fetched. I very much doubt that Archetype is/was being offended.
Actually, no. You know what? Fuck this.
vote: faust
Let's make this what you want it to be, a showdown between us. You've been hounding me since yesterday, using passive-aggressive crap and all to try to run this. I'm only still playing because a arch couldn't find a replacement. But that's what you wanted, right?
So let's do it. Let everyone choose who they trust. Both our names have come up as possible reps for f.ds at the Mafia Championships. Here it is, then. Loser refuses to be put forward as a candidate. Let's see who really deserves it.
I am confident that my result validates my strong read on Joseph and his crazy backpedal on his claim on D2 with his convenient targeting. Your crazy defense of him throughout this whole thing ties you to him so strongly, it's partnership. You lost Hydrad, knew you were in bad shape, have to keep your partner around.
So, here it is. You and Joseph vs. me. Everyone, pick a side! Whose instincts do you trust?
If you lynch me, fine. I'll know I'm past my prime as a player and I don't deserve to be considered as f.ds's rep. But as of right now, I definitely believe in myself, and I think you should, too.
The gauntlet is thrown, just like you wanted, faust. Let the one the community thinks is the best man win.
Ash, you never answered my question. Why is this You vs. Faust at this point?
Ash, you never answered my question. Why is this You vs. Faust at this point?
Sorry, I wanted to.
It's me vs. faust + joseph. I was voting Joseph first, based on my read and my result. Faust came in with his vote and "see ya later doods" seagull poop post, basically stating his intent to play this through to the end. I reacted.
I mean, is anyone going to honestly argue that no one is lying and there's a rational explanation to this? Look at my result post and look at faust's. Tell me which one looks like a planned-out, thought-through fake claim to get someone lynched.
So, either I'm lying or he's lying, right? So it's me vs. him.
If the sentiment is overwhelmingly in favor of lynching Joseph first, that'll happen instead.
I want to stress again just how incredibly scummy, disengenous, low-down, loathesome, and heretical faust's post was. He uses a holier-than-thou tone to "break down" the ONLY possible options, but leaves out the most important one, that he himself could be lying.
It's the biggest misdirection ploy in a single post I've ever seen. It's like:
"The answer to the math question about adding whole, positive numbers is 8. The only possible way to get 8 by adding whole positive numbers is 1+7, 2+6, and 3+5."
Faust lying is 4+4, and he left it out.
But your "me or him" post came *before* Faust claimed his night action. He had only voted you. How could you know there wasn't a town!Faust explanation?
I want to stress again just how incredibly scummy, disengenous, low-down, loathesome, and heretical faust's post was. He uses a holier-than-thou tone to "break down" the ONLY possible options, but leaves out the most important one, that he himself could be lying.
It's the biggest misdirection ploy in a single post I've ever seen. It's like:
"The answer to the math question about adding whole, positive numbers is 8. The only possible way to get 8 by adding whole positive numbers is 1+7, 2+6, and 3+5."
Faust lying is 4+4, and he left it out.
I don't agree this is scummy. I tend to leave out scum!me scenarios when considering things.. actually I think town is somewhat more likely to do it than scum (modulo meta). One, scum wants to make sure everything is polished, and two, town knows they're telling the truth.
But your "me or him" post came *before* Faust claimed his night action. He had only voted you. How could you know there wasn't a town!Faust explanation?
I knew from the moment I got my result PM that faust had to be the partner because of the way he'd been treating Joseph the entire time. And he just solidified it when he was pushing for claiming order, then freaking out about me not claiming on time (way too concerned there, if you go back and look), and then his seagull poop response when I caught his partner.
It's me (and whoever is with me) vs. Joseph/Faust. And then we need to find Hydrad's partner.
I fully disagree with you. I always include the "I'm scum" scenario when I'm town. Otherwise you aren't being honest or sincere. To leave that out is inherently scummy to the nth degree.
But your "me or him" post came *before* Faust claimed his night action. He had only voted you. How could you know there wasn't a town!Faust explanation?
I knew from the moment I got my result PM that faust had to be the partner because of the way he'd been treating Joseph the entire time. And he just solidified it when he was pushing for claiming order, then freaking out about me not claiming on time (way too concerned there, if you go back and look), and then his seagull poop response when I caught his partner.
It's me (and whoever is with me) vs. Joseph/Faust. And then we need to find Hydrad's partner.
Sweet. then I'm an IC ;)
I fully disagree with you. I always include the "I'm scum" scenario when I'm town. Otherwise you aren't being honest or sincere. To leave that out is inherently scummy to the nth degree.
I'm being honest and sincere when I leave out the "I'm scum" scenario when I'm town. It's completely true that I'm not scum so there's nothing dishonest or insincere about that.
I fully disagree with you. I always include the "I'm scum" scenario when I'm town. Otherwise you aren't being honest or sincere. To leave that out is inherently scummy to the nth degree.
I'm being honest and sincere when I leave out the "I'm scum" scenario when I'm town. It's completely true that I'm not scum so there's nothing dishonest or insincere about that.
I fully disagree with you. I always include the "I'm scum" scenario when I'm town. Otherwise you aren't being honest or sincere. To leave that out is inherently scummy to the nth degree.
I'm being honest and sincere when I leave out the "I'm scum" scenario when I'm town. It's completely true that I'm not scum so there's nothing dishonest or insincere about that.
Not for your reader. How can we trust you? We don't know if you are town. If you are purporting to be presenting a fully honest and neutral case for everyone to review and decide upon, you have to include all possibilities. If you don't, we will just assume you are hiding it on purpose.
I think hiding anything on purpose (edge cases excluded) is scummy.
I'm confused, because I know I'm not lying, but ash has felt towny all game to me. Does that mean faust is scum? That still doesn't explain ash's night action thing.But your "me or him" post came *before* Faust claimed his night action. He had only voted you. How could you know there wasn't a town!Faust explanation?
I knew from the moment I got my result PM that faust had to be the partner because of the way he'd been treating Joseph the entire time. And he just solidified it when he was pushing for claiming order, then freaking out about me not claiming on time (way too concerned there, if you go back and look), and then his seagull poop response when I caught his partner.
It's me (and whoever is with me) vs. Joseph/Faust. And then we need to find Hydrad's partner.
I'm confused, because I know I'm not lying, but ash has felt towny all game to me. Does that mean faust is scum? That still doesn't explain ash's night action thing.But your "me or him" post came *before* Faust claimed his night action. He had only voted you. How could you know there wasn't a town!Faust explanation?
I knew from the moment I got my result PM that faust had to be the partner because of the way he'd been treating Joseph the entire time. And he just solidified it when he was pushing for claiming order, then freaking out about me not claiming on time (way too concerned there, if you go back and look), and then his seagull poop response when I caught his partner.
It's me (and whoever is with me) vs. Joseph/Faust. And then we need to find Hydrad's partner.
I think hiding anything on purpose (edge cases excluded) is scummy.
To answer a previous question, I think the duplicator action would fall under supportive, which is a category of action possible.
I'm confused, because I know I'm not lying, but ash has felt towny all game to me. Does that mean faust is scum? That still doesn't explain ash's night action thing.But your "me or him" post came *before* Faust claimed his night action. He had only voted you. How could you know there wasn't a town!Faust explanation?
I knew from the moment I got my result PM that faust had to be the partner because of the way he'd been treating Joseph the entire time. And he just solidified it when he was pushing for claiming order, then freaking out about me not claiming on time (way too concerned there, if you go back and look), and then his seagull poop response when I caught his partner.
It's me (and whoever is with me) vs. Joseph/Faust. And then we need to find Hydrad's partner.
There is a narrative where faust, claiming last always because we let him, can claim whatever he wants.
For example, his claim today. He was given all the information he needed before claiming. I mean, that is on us somewhat. Investigative roles are definitely more trustworthy when claiming first. Then if someone contradicts it is a clear "me vs you" scenario.
I think hiding anything on purpose (edge cases excluded) is scummy.
To answer a previous question, I think the duplicator action would fall under supportive, which is a category of action possible.
I think creating the duplicator (I.e., ADKs role) sounds Supportive, but Joseph used the item.
This is a blatant lie or a scum slip. Scum can 1000000% kill their partners in any normal mafia game, so why would this be different? If they can't think game, it's because you asked and found out.
- Attacks from one faction can affect members of the other faction. [color]
And how incredibly fucking convenient that your result confirms Joseph's role?
And in your breakdown, you leave out (conveniently) the most likely scenario of all: 4) faust lied.
The scum narrative for me? You have to think I'm the biggest asshole in the world...fake fight, fake quitting, someone got Arch to fake seek a replacement, fake a result....all for what? It's pretty early to be suiciding.
And to argue it's mylo? No one, definitely not me, thought that at all. Faust, as scum, would see it, I guess. Sounds like a signal to his unknown scum partner.
As for Joseph's real role? Dunno. Could have an effect that weakens players (messes with results, ability to use, etc.). That's manipulative and sort of fits his way of claiming a poisoner. He mentioned that knife/bleeding thing, which was really weird.
As for Joseph's real role? Dunno. Could have an effect that weakens players (messes with results, ability to use, etc.). That's manipulative and sort of fits his way of claiming a poisoner. He mentioned that knife/bleeding thing, which was really weird.
So you think I'm obvscum, but you still want to hold up a scenario where Joseph's role name is really "Poisoner" so that, once I flip, you don't get instalynched?
I'm more inclined to lynch one of faust/Joseph than ashersky today, because I agree that they're probably partners if one of them is scum. If ashersky is scum, then we still need to find his partner (although I think Ichi is a pretty good choice, but it's not as clear).
I'm confused, because I know I'm not lying, but ash has felt towny all game to me. Does that mean faust is scum? That still doesn't explain ash's night action thing.But your "me or him" post came *before* Faust claimed his night action. He had only voted you. How could you know there wasn't a town!Faust explanation?
I knew from the moment I got my result PM that faust had to be the partner because of the way he'd been treating Joseph the entire time. And he just solidified it when he was pushing for claiming order, then freaking out about me not claiming on time (way too concerned there, if you go back and look), and then his seagull poop response when I caught his partner.
It's me (and whoever is with me) vs. Joseph/Faust. And then we need to find Hydrad's partner.
There is a narrative where faust, claiming last always because we let him, can claim whatever he wants.
For example, his claim today. He was given all the information he needed before claiming. I mean, that is on us somewhat. Investigative roles are definitely more trustworthy when claiming first. Then if someone contradicts it is a clear "me vs you" scenario.
I'm more inclined to lynch one of faust/Joseph than ashersky today, because I agree that they're probably partners if one of them is scum. If ashersky is scum, then we still need to find his partner (although I think Ichi is a pretty good choice, but it's not as clear).
If I'm lynched, then chances are it's game over.
I'm more inclined to lynch one of faust/Joseph than ashersky today, because I agree that they're probably partners if one of them is scum. If ashersky is scum, then we still need to find his partner (although I think Ichi is a pretty good choice, but it's not as clear).
If I'm lynched, then chances are it's game over.
Aren't the chances that it's game over if we lynch town!ashersky, too? I'm too tired to try to understand what was the reason why we're at MyLo already (it's 10:30 AM and I haven't gone to bed yet), but I don't really see how it's different.
Last but not least, it doesn't make any sense for town!ash to vote me over Joseph. He claims to know I'm investigative, and Joseph is manipulative, and he wants to kill the investigative role first, when it's plain obvious that the manipulative one can cause more damage when left alive? This is just a way for ash to be able to stick around one more day if needed.
I'm more inclined to lynch one of faust/Joseph than ashersky today, because I agree that they're probably partners if one of them is scum. If ashersky is scum, then we still need to find his partner (although I think Ichi is a pretty good choice, but it's not as clear).
If I'm lynched, then chances are it's game over.
Aren't the chances that it's game over if we lynch town!ashersky, too? I'm too tired to try to understand what was the reason why we're at MyLo already (it's 10:30 AM and I haven't gone to bed yet), but I don't really see how it's different.
Possibly, but ashersky is not town. I'm just saying that your argument for lynching Joseph/me over ash is bad.
?? ?? where is all this mylo talking coming from? we lynched one scum day1, we're at day2, how is this mylo?
Maybe people should actually just kill me? Although I'm town, if everyone thinks my reads are that bad, then I'm probably actually just helping scum out.
Sorry I've been MIA. We went to the dr yesterday, then to hospital, now I am a daddy. I will ask to be replaced if possible.
Well, we could always replace chairs with Tables.Sorry I've been MIA. We went to the dr yesterday, then to hospital, now I am a daddy. I will ask to be replaced if possible.
Hooray! When will Stools start playing Mafia?
e was part of the big plan yesterday, which was something like I poison e, some people do other stuff, and someone (faust?) can confirm I'm not lying. Except this doesn't work, because people don't seem to trust faust now.Maybe people should actually just kill me? Although I'm town, if everyone thinks my reads are that bad, then I'm probably actually just helping scum out.
Well, the XP kill was bad~, but I'm not sure about these choices.
Why do you think e and Chairs are scum?
Well, honestly I kind of like the Chairs one, because he's hard to read and hasn't done anything to scream town.The Holiday one (M55?) and traitor in the Futurama one (M56?).
And, yeah, we did have the plan on e.
I find myself believing Joseph. Which game was he scum in?
Sorry I've been MIA. We went to the dr yesterday, then to hospital, now I am a daddy. I will ask to be replaced if possible.
Hooray! When will Stools start playing Mafia?
Well wouldn't him arguing against the massclaim look bad?
Well wouldn't him arguing against the massclaim look bad?
Maybe. That's why I didn't, actually.
But, his very first post in the game was to vote for a massclaim. It makes me think he considered it before, or immediately saw utility in it.
Well wouldn't him arguing against the massclaim look bad?
Maybe. That's why I didn't, actually.
But, his very first post in the game was to vote for a massclaim. It makes me think he considered it before, or immediately saw utility in it.
This is funny hedgy.
It also feels like you are making arguments for how faust could be scum while joseph is town.
Hm.. I wasn't considering scum Faust and Joseph town. I'm considering Faust-Joseph partner and if it makes sense. This is for purposes of answering the question: "Did they come up with those whole plan Night 0?"
So let's run this through. What are the scenarios for scum!Joseph?
1. He actually has the role he claims (or some variant thereof)
First let me state that I think this unlikely because giving scum an extra kill is quite impossible to balance. But okay, let's for a moment work under the assumption that this is possible. What does he do last night? He targets Xerxes with it. I mean, it's conceivable that he lied about this, but really why? With roles confirming stuff, this is dangerous. So we'd have to assume he tells the truth about targeting Xerxes. This makes little sense for scum. Scum targets the player they attack? Why? It robs them off a night kill - and it doesn't even look good on them.
This case is hardly possible. Occam's razor tells us to dismiss it.
2. He lied about this role.
Okay. So he might have another role. This is something we can make sure I can uncover tonight, with little possibility of me dying. But I doubt even this is the case. I mean, what sort of super-crappy fakeclaim is this? If he lied, why claim to have targeted Xerxes? He did the night attack, and is afraid of being Tracked/Watched? There's no such role. Why claim something that in order to work needs help of some other player? Maybe to insinuate that someone is lying. But if this is the case, then why do a full turn before it even plays out? Sorry, but I don't really see this either.
Okay, so there's this chance that he has a role Poisoner that does something different. This would be extremely misleading, like close-to-bastard misleading. It's convention here that mafiascum names are mafiascum roles, and breaking that should at least be announced pregame. And Arch knows about Posioning, he used it in RMM11 I think.
So there's no conceivable scenario where Joseph is scum for me. Still, if you want to be really sure, I can check him tonight. But why would we lynch him? Makes zero sense to me.
that is kind of true. But Joseph pretty much got away with it.
phone post
that is kind of true. But Joseph pretty much got away with it.I did, but a competent partner would surely have prepared me so I didn't make a mess.
phone post
Joseph is more dangerous than useful.Unfortunately I'm tempted to agree. Although I'm actually town, my scum reads haven't been great, so I'm probably helping scum.
I am having a really, really hard time buying this scenario.
Is there any utility to lynching one the Governed e/Silverspawn? It would either lynch scum or create an IC. In the latter case they reset and I can choose a new target tonight.
In the case where they're town, it's forgoing a lynch which is not great. Also, e is going to die anyway if Joseph is telling the truth.
But actually scratch that. As long as I'm not sure you're town, I don't want to put the game into your hands.
A scenario that makes more sense would be that me and Joseph are not partners, but via my powers, I figured out that Joseph is the other scum, and now I'm protecting him.
I can see a town!joseph and scum!faust more than both of the being scum.I agree. At any rate, we'll lynch faust first and work from there. My scumread on faust doesn't require joseph to be scum.
Also, I just drank a bottle of wine, so I wont be too useful for thinking about the game tonight.
Tell me why you're town then.Also, I just drank a bottle of wine, so I wont be too useful for thinking about the game tonight.
But if anyone want s to know why i am town I can be sueful
Tell me why you're town then.Also, I just drank a bottle of wine, so I wont be too useful for thinking about the game tonight.
But if anyone want s to know why i am town I can be sueful
I'm kind of inclined to believe you. You'll help us lynch faust though right?
Ok.
It's so hilarious how faust comes out with "we're probably in mylo now" after being such a huge supporter of keeping Joseph alive and having him use his power. e supported it too. If we are in mylo, that's frickin why.
WW can't get mad at me for taking credit for putting myself down as an ardent supporter of killing Joseph or at least not having him use his power--Ash was the one that originally pointed it out but no one paid attention to it. Of course this all assumes Joseph's power is what he says it is.
Yeah. People keep saying that...
I mean, I'll give him props for staying alive this long and confusing other people--but I was never fooled (and no WW, it wasn't just dumb luck). It's just people never listen to me--which is kind of my own fault I guess.
You're also one of the reasons we're at MyLo. Just saying.How's that?
Yeah this is super unconvincing. There was a time there when you and Ash were arguing when I thought you were making some good points and my read on you was wavering a bit but yeah, that went away soon enough.
The scenario would be something like this:A scenario that makes more sense would be that me and Joseph are not partners, but via my powers, I figured out that Joseph is the other scum, and now I'm protecting him.
That's a nice scenario. Is it the true one? I'm very much convinced you are partners, not unknowns. If you want to say I'm not considering all angles, feel free, as everything you say is a scum lie and misdirection anyway. It's clear you aren't reading my posts anyway. I'm not sure why I'm reading yours. I definitely hadn't planned on responding to any after Day 2.
But if you want to lay out how you and Joseph are both scum but not partners, by all means, go ahead.
The scenario would be something like this:A scenario that makes more sense would be that me and Joseph are not partners, but via my powers, I figured out that Joseph is the other scum, and now I'm protecting him.
That's a nice scenario. Is it the true one? I'm very much convinced you are partners, not unknowns. If you want to say I'm not considering all angles, feel free, as everything you say is a scum lie and misdirection anyway. It's clear you aren't reading my posts anyway. I'm not sure why I'm reading yours. I definitely hadn't planned on responding to any after Day 2.
But if you want to lay out how you and Joseph are both scum but not partners, by all means, go ahead.
I'm Hydrad's partner, and so in N0 we thought up a good fakeclaim. Hydrad died D1, so N1 I was left to myself and caused a huge mess. From the mess, faust basically guessed I must be scum, and then knew that by claiming last D3 they could verify my claim, thus defending us both.
In all seriousness, I seriously think faust might just be trying to whiteknight me. Vote: faust.
Joseph - PLEASE lay down how I am scum. Go ahead.Because I really cannot see both you and ashersky being the same team, the interactions between you seem like scum vs town.
This is ridiculous.
Joseph - PLEASE lay down how I am scum. Go ahead.Because I really cannot see both you and ashersky being the same team, the interactions between you seem like scum vs town.
This is ridiculous.
If scum!ash claims I used manipulative action, it lowers the lynchpool for today to just him and 1-2 other people, which doesn't seem very good for him IMO. Also, I didn't feel he was scummy D2 either, when there was the big ash/faust argument. His claim doesn't make sense to me (since I only double-poisoned), but I think there might be an explanation different from "ash is scum, and made it up" e.g. an explanation of someone else did something to me that made ash get bad results.
So, if ash is town, then this probably makes you scum. Plus you were last to claim today, which is the safest scum position, as scum!faust could easily just agree with me, whiteknighting me (I'm ignoring the case we're both scum, since I know I'm not scum).
You do realize that the very same arguments you use to find me scummy can be applied to argue that I must be town, and therefore ashersky must be scum?I knew there was a flaw in this argument, I just hadn't worked out where. So in conclusion, one of ash or faust is scum.
This is nonsense.
Well, I'm not giving up hope that Joseph is just April's Fools voting me.No it was genuine, although pretty much everything I've done this game has been both genuine and not very useful/hopeless at the same time.
Unvote: faust I guess, since the logic basically works both ways, so could be ash who's scum.
I still think someone might have messed with my role last night though.
Everything Ichi has done this game has felt fake. He's my top lynch choice for today.I think you could very well be faust's partner. This isn't even an argument, it's just a sweeping, subjective generalization about my play.
Still torn about Ash, but if it's Ash vs. Faust I'm voting Ash.
Everything Ichi has done this game has felt fake. He's my top lynch choice for today.I think you could very well be faust's partner. This isn't even an argument, it's just a sweeping, subjective generalization about my play.
Still torn about Ash, but if it's Ash vs. Faust I'm voting Ash.
kk.
I am the Town Blackmailer. And my power is kind of different. It basically revolves around me picking one person to target--and then naming several other people and if any of those people I name gets lynched, my target is protected from attacks for the following night.
faust. I feel like you're being purposefully dishonest in voting me and your analysis of my role.
You already seemingly acknowledged that you understood that the # of players I pick after my original target is determined the same was as SS--yet you omit that from your analysis post. I never used the word Doctor to describe my role--yet you act as if I did. My role protects my target from all attacks if one of the other people I choose gets lynched. You rate numerous, numerous other people as having roles with higher scum utility and lower town utility. I just don't get it.
I don't really buy that you aren't paying attention. I think you're doing this on purpose and it makes me want to vote: faust. I can make my lynch choices public the following day so it can be guaranteed that my target gets protected during the night--assuming that at least one of my choices is likable to most people. So it is not that difficult to ensure that my role doesn't "backfire".
I don't like how e gives you town credit for claiming last and pretending that you had a reason for it when your supposed role does not warrant that at all. You know you don't have any good reason to vote me--and it seems you purposefully refrained from stating any, so I can only conclude that you're either scum or doing this to get a reaction out of me (maybe both).
Ichi's whole post feels like total OMGUS to me, and seems like scum worried about the lynch pool getting too narrow. I agree with a lot of faust's analysis, though I don't think we should be lynching people based solely on how scummy their role is. People's reactions, though, are telling.Well this is just ludicrous. Yes it's OMGUS to a degree--but faust's behavior has been legitimately troubling and scummy. Why should I be bullied out of voting for him just because he voted me first? Scared about the lynch pool getting too narrow? Where did you get that from? If anything, it looks to me like faust did some "analysis" and laid down some ground rules and then just completely ignored them. Then you jumped my wagon because you thought you could get away with it and are now scrambling to invent reasons why you voted me.
I think you're scum btw.
PPE: 1
Yeah. Your read on me is so forced.
You said you thought "a lot" of faust's analysis was sound? Were there some parts you didn't agree with?
I'm going to switch to vote: ADK.
It's pretty normal for me to disagree with faust and him to find me scummy for something I don't get (like in Dice Mafia).
ADK's vote and explanation look and feel terrible though. And now he's gone. He could have left for some irl reason. But I know when things get heated and I'm scum, I sometimes will stop posting for a while and just hope it blows over.
WW and SS are my biggest townreads.
To quote faust from Yoshi's island
"Your silence is giving you away."
If you bothered to read my other posts, you would see I mentioned this. You're working to misinterpret me here.To quote faust from Yoshi's island
"Your silence is giving you away."
I was away from the computer. My entire life does not revolve around mafia.
PPEs: Wow. Now who's overreacting?
You're scum. You need to die.
Distraction, deflection, and more purposeful ignorance of people's metas.
Can we please lynch ADK today?
*my voting
I should probably take a break. I feel really, really, confident that ADK is scum though, and I think Hydrad's assessment of my meta is clearly inaccurate--but of course scum!ADK is going to latch onto it.
You'll have to wait for a proper response util tomorrow I fear. I tentatively think Ichi is scummy here, and honestly have a hard time understanding why people would vote for one of our only investigative roles at all on D1.Ok. Tentatively scummy. That's ok, but kind of hedgy especially with your vote.
Oh. Well I honestly have a hard time understanding why people are voting like our only real protective role on D1.
PPE: silver is one of my top townreads. Another good reason for where my vote is.
Darn it. My OMGUS senses are telling me to unvote you now.
Faust is tunneling me.
You've obviously been setting me up for a mislynch for a while now. As long as you can get away with it, it doesn't matter if that's what you "really" believe or not.
I'm back to vote: faust. And you're saying scum!faust would genuinely scumhunt here. What does that mean? You'd actively try to identify and lynch the unknown component of your team?--because that makes no sense at all.
Please look back at faust's posts. He's handpicking information.
You got my reactions, yet you didn't actually comment on them beyond being like WW and putting me into a category. Just because I have an emotional element to my responses doesn't mean you can just ignore my points.
And notice how faust just completely ignores e's case on WW. This is reminding me of Teproc and WW in Musical Mafia. One of them tunnels me and I let it slide, while WW is super hedgy and then switches to my wagon at the last minute. Well this time, there really is no substance to your case, beyond you not following your own rules and voting me 2/5 town power 3/5 scum power by your estimation. Instead of someone like WW whom you rated as a 1/5 town power 5/5 scum power--and that's only one example.
You are being dishonest because you said we should vote by your numbers, but your vote on me makes no sense given your estimation for each role's relative town/scum power. That's verifiably true.
Except I think Faust is town, and e is probably town too.e might be town. Faust is scum for sure. I actually see you as a likely partner for him.
I think Hydrad's been really scummy as well. I'm interested with the super ramp up of his wagon though.
Eh. I feel that Ichi recalls that he usually gets in a big fight with me and tries to reproduce this meta here. He's making a big fuss over things I already responded to. It doesn't feel genuine.Um. By my reckoning I didn't start things (you'll probably disagree). I still have no idea why you're voting me.
I feel like you know that you usually find me scummy for some reasons I think is awful--and you're trying to replicate that here. We fought in Yoshi's island too--just saying.
PPE: Maybe WW isn't scum.
So I'm scummy because...I don't see anything there.
What about WW's role?
Seriously, if you're voting me just because of my role, that is horrid.
PPE: We were just partners together in flavorless. You could be changing your scum playstyle because of that. I mostly think you're scum because of how you've tunneled me for virtually no reason and are refusing to give up. It feels lazy and subversive. I let Teproc talk me out of feeling this way about tunneling me in Musical Mafia--and it didn't exactly work out for me.
Uh. Pretty sure that's L-2. I don't know guys...I'm not really feeling the Hydrad lynch. I am terrible at reading him though.
Well. We still have like 5 days--at the same time I think there's already been a ton that's happened today: the massclaim, ADK's and my fight, etc. So ending it now is fine.
Eh. His role doesn't look super strong...should I hammer?
I feel like scum is manipulating me to go along with this lynch though.
To answer the first question, I just get this bad feeling about certain lynches. I just feel so confident that faust is scum, it feels kind of bad to settle for anyone else today. But unfortunately it doesn't look that's happening. I often just go along with what other people think as town--and I feel like that's hurt me in the past.
For the general one. I think this setup kind of sucks for scum in that regard. They can't really get any towncredit for bussing known or unkonwn--since it could be by accident. They're going to have to balance looking like they're really scumhunting (which they kind of are)--and then maybe back off if they think they identified one of their unknown partners?
Well faust isn't happening right now. I'm going to vote: ADK as well. I thought your case on him was good--and I felt he was really scummy when we were fighting.
PPE: 1
faust tunneled me first--I'm not even voting for him right now. He has kept his vote on me and refused to move it. Why is it impossible for scum!faust to be the one tunneling me and me just being my normal self? And yeah, I do tunnel people this way--especially after what happened in Musical Mafia.
PPEs: like 4
Also. It feels like you're purposefully exaggerating how much "space" or whatever mine and faust's argument was. We didn't directly argue much at all actually. Certainly less than ADK and I.
I don't like how you and WW sit back from each of these arguments and are both like "oh, you must be partners together". Declaring we're both the same alignment is an easy way for scum to avoid taking sides--and being held responsible.
PPE: 1
Does anyone else want to lynch e? It feels like he's gotten very little attention, and said relatively little, in all of this.There's too many people I find scummy!
You are right here though. He's been pretty low activity and has anyone really voted for him?
PPE: I'm not wholly opposed to lynching Hydrad.
Hammer time?
The Hydrad lynch has grown on me. SS made some accusations of me being Hydrad's partner--which I find kind of strange. Everyone has pretty much taken a stand on him one way or the other--or obviously hedged with their read on him. I am interested that no one (especially Ash) has hammered him yet.
I have townreads on about half of his wagon: Joseph, XP, SS.
I sense an incoming case on me...priming OMGUS.
Man, if either ichi or Faust is scum, they both are.
Town v town OR faked partner fight. Those are the only sensible options for your odd behavior.
This new development with Joseph though is interesting. It's making me see the faust/Joseph partner theory crumble a bit more. faust looks very genuinely annoyed and frustrated at Joseph turning his suspicion towards him--the guy whose done nothing but stand up for Joseph and keep him from getting lynched!
This new development with Joseph though is interesting. It's making me see the faust/Joseph partner theory crumble a bit more. faust looks very genuinely annoyed and frustrated at Joseph turning his suspicion towards him--the guy whose done nothing but stand up for Joseph and keep him from getting lynched!Well then we've made some progress. Because faust and I aren't scumteam.
Oh yeah, regarding the whole "Town Blackmailer" thing. I found out that was a carry over of what I put in my PM when confirming my role, because I always make sure the mod knows that I know my alignment--especially in this setup where role name does not indicate alignment.
1. You were claiming he was tunneling you from the beginning.1. You dodged my question. Ash said I was tunneling faust during D1 and you never took issue with it. Please share your magical definition of tunneling that never applies to people that are voting me and always excuses faust now that he is really tunneling me
2. That's Ash's meta. I might guess he does it specifically to stay in meta. Or it's just his style. It's not like he's "allowed" to do it. But I in no way believe you were so certain of ADK and Faust being scum.
3. Deflecting the point.
4. Something you would definitely be sure to consider as your partner.
5. Okay; I'm not sure what the takeaway from that is.
The confidence is a big part of it. The other factors are other things that have felt unnatural or not organic to me, or like "he can't honestly be thinking this". That's a subjective thing.
" I've had too many regrets where I get talked out of voting someone and then they flip scum. Obviously, I misapplied that on the Hydrad lynch, but I didn't like all the people pushing the ADK lynch either. "
I don't quite understand this. You were claiming to get talked into voting Hydrad. Or do you mean talked out of voting whomever you were voting for before? And do you mean ADK's Day 2 lynch or the Day 1 wagon?
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic here. You're overestimating my ability if you think I could/would make something like this up though.Oh yeah, regarding the whole "Town Blackmailer" thing. I found out that was a carry over of what I put in my PM when confirming my role, because I always make sure the mod knows that I know my alignment--especially in this setup where role name does not indicate alignment.
Well, that doesn't sound made up.
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic here. You're overestimating my ability if you think I could/would make something like this up though.Oh yeah, regarding the whole "Town Blackmailer" thing. I found out that was a carry over of what I put in my PM when confirming my role, because I always make sure the mod knows that I know my alignment--especially in this setup where role name does not indicate alignment.
Well, that doesn't sound made up.
1. I don't know what you're talking about or why this is relevant. Ash's comments are not related to everything else.Hmm. Ok. It just seems like you think no one ever tunnels me or something, so I wanted to hear what an example of tunneling would look like to you.
2. I wasn't aware this was your town meta.
3. No, deflecting. The point here is that you refer to your role as being protective and then claim that someone calling you a doctor is a misrepresentation of your role (apparently for the purposes of getting you lynched). You using "protective" was not you joking.
--
I'm just saying that "I've had too many regrets where I get talked out of voting someone and then they flip scum" isn't the Hydrad scenario. Well, at least from your posts, you were never too eager on voting for him. You did the "should I hammer?" thing, but you have to realize that doesn't really display to us that you're town that thought he was scum.I can't tell if you're being sarcastic here. You're overestimating my ability if you think I could/would make something like this up though.Oh yeah, regarding the whole "Town Blackmailer" thing. I found out that was a carry over of what I put in my PM when confirming my role, because I always make sure the mod knows that I know my alignment--especially in this setup where role name does not indicate alignment.
Well, that doesn't sound made up.
No, I was serious, that would be a weird thing for you to make up. I usually just respond "confirmed" or something.
Yeah, I don't know why I didn't hammer Hydrad myself. I basically called for someone to hammer him at the end of D1 though, so why not hammer him myself for the town credit?
It's true that you would have scum motivation to hammer, there, but there's also not a compelling town narrative.Yeah. That's a fair assessment. Well, this has all made me come away with a somewhat townier feeling about you.
It's true that you would have scum motivation to hammer, there, but there's also not a compelling town narrative.Yeah. That's a fair assessment. Well, this has all made me come away with a somewhat townier feeling about you.
Do you really think faust is town though? Do you really think it's scum!Ash vs town!faust and town!Joseph?
Is ADK still playing?faust quickhammered him yesterday.
Is ADK still playing?faust quickhammered him yesterday.
Maybe dead players can resurrect, that would be real madness.Is ADK still playing?faust quickhammered him yesterday.
Right. He's listed as alive in the OP.
No wait, I forgot to tell you all, I can resurrect players, but only if they're on my team. Resurrect: ADK.Just so people are clear, this was an April Fools' joke.
Does this make faust scummy? I dunno, I was going to hammer later that day. Can someone make it easy for me, and tell me who the scum are?Is ADK still playing?faust quickhammered him yesterday.
Does this make faust scummy? I dunno, I was going to hammer later that day. Can someone make it easy for me, and tell me who the scum are?Is ADK still playing?faust quickhammered him yesterday.
Vote: Lynch everybody.Why does nobody like this plan?
I dunno, it felt like everyone was committed or had given up on any other lynch. Plus did faust actually know he was hammering?Does this make faust scummy? I dunno, I was going to hammer later that day. Can someone make it easy for me, and tell me who the scum are?Is ADK still playing?faust quickhammered him yesterday.
You have to think about what faust got out of the quickhammer. Did it ensure someone else didn't get lynch? Did it end the day before important discussions could take place (like night action coordination)? Did it end the day before some people, including the lynched player, got to chime in again?
Well, okay. Let's see how this turns out.I
Vote: ADK I think this brings him back to L-1.
I still prefer Ichi, and to an extent silver, WW and e, but these don't seem to happen. If anything changes, I'm more than happy to change my vote. But I'd rather lynch ADK now than see Joseph lynched by some ignorant folk close to deadline.
I seriously doubt that was faked.You never know, faust could have thought about it a lot. I doubt it too though, that D2 end was confusing/messy.
Interesting lynchpool, but I agree with Ichi that the lynch is either faust or ash. I just cannot see them both being town.
Wait, so what's your explanation for Ash, Faust, and Joseph all being town?
Wait, so what's your explanation for Ash, Faust, and Joseph all being town?
i said i could see one of them being scum
Re-read and made my decision.Why man? faust is obvscum here. Please at least tell us.
Vote: ashersky
Re-read and made my decision.Why man? faust is obvscum here. Please at least tell us.
Vote: ashersky
Thanks for answering :PRe-read and made my decision.Why man? faust is obvscum here. Please at least tell us.
Vote: ashersky
Because you're his partner.
Wait, so what's your explanation for Ash, Faust, and Joseph all being town?
i said i could see one of them being scum
Well, "could see one as scum" is different from not being able to create a narrative where all are town.
I can confirm silverspawn's action. I got to use Hydrad's power last night and I used it on faust, getting No Result which means that it was blocked. I didn't use my Pickpocket ability.
Ok. I don't see scum thinking this much out loud and going from Joseph --> Ash --> faust (right choice btw).
Townread on e. Too bad Joseph poisoned him. chairs is still in this game right? Has he even posted today?
Ok. I don't see scum thinking this much out loud and going from Joseph --> Ash --> faust (right choice btw).
Townread on e. Too bad Joseph poisoned him. chairs is still in this game right? Has he even posted today?
Re-read and made my decision.
Vote: ashersky
I think a lurker is most likely Hydrad's partner -- so Silverspawn or 2.7 or chairs. Is ADK still playing?
ok.
vote: faust
I honestly don't know who is telling the truth in that whole mess. Unfortunately for faust, his flip gives us the most information. If Ash flips scum or Joseph flips town, narratives still exist in which we do not know faust's identity.
Whichever way faust flips, we will know the alignment of both Joseph and Ashersky. Someone correct me if I am wrong.
If Joseph is telling the truth, Ash is scum. Faust might be scum still as a rolecop
If Joseph is lying, faust is lying, Ash is telling the truth
If Ash is telling the truth, joseph is lying scum, which means faust is scum
If Ash is lying, then joseph is town, faust maybe scum? But not Ashersky's partner
If faust is lying, then Joseph is lying. Ash is town and telling the truth
If faust is telling the truth, then Joseph is telling the truth and Ash is scum
Ash claims Joseph used a Manipulative role last night. This does not preclude Joseph from using other types of roles; Ash only receives one role type from his target if they used multiple.Ah. Thank you very much.
Faust claims that e had a role with title Weak Poisoner used on him last night.
Joseph claims he is Weak Poisoner and targeted e and Chairs by using the 1-Shot Duplicator he received from ADK.
Vote Count 1.1
ashersky (3): faust, Awaclus, Witherweaver
faust (3): ashersky, Ichimaru Gin, faust
Not Voting (3): Joseph, silverspawn, chairs
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends Tuesday, April 7th at 10:30 AM.
Fixed! Thank you.Vote Count 1.1
ashersky (3): faust, Awaclus, Witherweaver
faust (3): ashersky, Ichimaru Gin, faust
Not Voting (3): Joseph, silverspawn, chairs
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends Tuesday, April 7th at 10:30 AM.
Mod: This vote count has a mistake. Apparently faust is voting for ash and himself.
So let me make sure I'm clear."Limited poisoner", but yes.
ashersky claims joseph used a "manipulative" role.
faust claims "weak poisoner" was used.
This is why we're debating between them.
Correct?
This is essentially the problem I'm having. faust going last could either be town confirming me as town, faust whiteknighting me, or we're a scum team (although I know the last one isn't true).Ash claims Joseph used a Manipulative role last night. This does not preclude Joseph from using other types of roles; Ash only receives one role type from his target if they used multiple.Ah. Thank you very much.
Faust claims that e had a role with title Weak Poisoner used on him last night.
Joseph claims he is Weak Poisoner and targeted e and Chairs by using the 1-Shot Duplicator he received from ADK.
The thing that really gives me pause here is seeing the dual motivation in faust claiming last. If he's town, he wants a chance to catch scum in a fakeclaim that contradicts his own result.
Yet if he's scum, claiming last gives him total advantage to come up with his own fakeclaim that counter's Ash's. Mmmm. Can we not lynch anyone just yet? I have to go to class soon, but will be back later today.
ok.
vote: faust
I honestly don't know who is telling the truth in that whole mess. Unfortunately for faust, his flip gives us the most information. If Ash flips scum or Joseph flips town, narratives still exist in which we do not know faust's identity.
Whichever way faust flips, we will know the alignment of both Joseph and Ashersky. Someone correct me if I am wrong.
Also this is a horrible reason to vote for someone. I'm town, that's easy to realize, and then you can conclude about ash's and Joseph's alignment from there. No need to lynch me first.
If faust is scum, then the result he shared about Joseph....could be true still? I mean, if it is (and Joseph is town), then that means faust and Ashersky are both scum. Which could actually be the case maybe? Which actually negates the supposed benefit of voting faust over Ashersky or Joseph.
Can we not lynch anyone just yet? I have to go to class soon, but will be back later today.
My question right now is why is Ichi in such a hurry for a lynch?Um. This is me telling people to take it slow. I'm telling them to not lynch anyone right now. Am I overestimating people's eagerness?Can we not lynch anyone just yet? I have to go to class soon, but will be back later today.
My question right now is why is Ichi in such a hurry for a lynch?Um. This is me telling people to take it slow. I'm telling them to not lynch anyone right now. Am I overestimating people's eagerness?Can we not lynch anyone just yet? I have to go to class soon, but will be back later today.
I think I know who I want to vote for, but want to hear more from other people before I vote. Especially silverspawn and awaclus and chairs.
The scum narrative for me? You have to think I'm the biggest asshole in the world...fake fight, fake quitting, someone got Arch to fake seek a replacement, fake a result....all for what? It's pretty early to be suiciding.
Look, the scum narrative for Joseph/Faust is super clear. There have been shit claims (Joseph #1, the backpedal, admitting he targeted XP who died and was the key to our plan, Faust claiming to directly save him); they have been tied together for self-preservation (faust's non-stop, non-sensical defense of Joseph, faust's quick hammer of town, faust claiming a result to save Joseph after he's caught out -- which is why Faust wanted to go last, btw).
But this is so simple. Either someone messed with my actions, or ash is scum. There's been no evidence that someone messed with my actions, therefore ash is scum.
Door number 3 = You are scum.
Yeah. That's a good point. I'm not convinced that his role is too OP to be a scum one. Aren't all roles supposed to work for both alignments? Plus, in this setup, scum has the weaker attack thing instead of NK's and it's possible for him to hit members of the other team.Door number 3 = You are scum.
Well if he's scum and Faust is town, we still have to figure out what it means for scum to have his role name.
Yeah. That's a good point. I'm not convinced that his role is too OP to be a scum one. Aren't all roles supposed to work for both alignments? Plus, in this setup, scum has the weaker attack thing instead of NK's and it's possible for him to hit members of the other team.Door number 3 = You are scum.
Well if he's scum and Faust is town, we still have to figure out what it means for scum to have his role name.
Well I've spent most of D3 being like "What about if someone had messed with my actions". This reasoning kind of led me towards "I think ash might be town, which probably makes faust scum", but this argument seems weak- there's no evidence that someone messed with my actions. I'm now far more confident that ash is just scum.But this is so simple. Either someone messed with my actions, or ash is scum. There's been no evidence that someone messed with my actions, therefore ash is scum.
this just makes me feel worse about you and your faust vote
I think I know who I want to vote for, but want to hear more from other people before I vote. Especially silverspawn and awaclus and chairs.
Chairs, to make things more straightforward for you because you don't have tons of time, I am most interested in what you think about this post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.msg478132#msg478132). faust poked some holes in it (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12607.msg478398#msg478398) (which was great), but I want to know what you guys think.
Please no L-1-ing yet. Don't let them quickhammer. I have time to address everything tomorrow.Just so people know, I would be voting ash, but don't want L-1 on anyone yet. L-1 seems unnecessary right now.
Sorry to be this way, guys, but we just got back from the hospital where we had to put my daughter; she was unresponsive this afternoon and she's perked up but hospital policy says they test her for illness and hold her 48 hours while they get test results.
- I think the "let me vote for faust" thing from Joseph looks super staged. I also don't think faust's reaction points towards genuine town, I think scum!faust has just as much reason to be frustrated thereWhat's the whole thing good for if he decides to unvote right after? You can't argue that he wanted t really bus me, he's just confused here. Inconsistency is a town tell, after all.
- I don't buy that you're suddenly convinced about ash being scum. I recall you saying that ash's tunneling made him feel townier - what happened to that?
- I don't feel scum!ash anymore. At first I thought his tunneling was staged, but then he started to actually make good points, and... well, basically this:The scum narrative for me? You have to think I'm the biggest asshole in the world...fake fight, fake quitting, someone got Arch to fake seek a replacement, fake a result....all for what? It's pretty early to be suiciding.
And there's also the thing about how day 2 played out - I mean you did (quick!)hammer town, after all.
Don't get me wrong, I think you played an excellent game, but that's just it, you're an excellent player, you can do this as scum. If it was anyone else, I'd probably say what you're doing (defending Joseph super hard, insisting on claiming last) is too bold for scum, but you're capable of it.
Also this:Look, the scum narrative for Joseph/Faust is super clear. There have been shit claims (Joseph #1, the backpedal, admitting he targeted XP who died and was the key to our plan, Faust claiming to directly save him); they have been tied together for self-preservation (faust's non-stop, non-sensical defense of Joseph, faust's quick hammer of town, faust claiming a result to save Joseph after he's caught out -- which is why Faust wanted to go last, btw).
Another thing - let's say ash is scum. Would he really try to connect this game to the contest to the Mafia championship thing if he knows you are right? Definitely no. This is more than just staging a fight.
I'm also pretty confident about Joseph being scum now. We all gave him allowances for his screw ups, but man, at some point we have to assume that it's staged, especially if you're partners. and if we are lynching among you two, it seems better to lynch you first.
and lastly, I don't feel very good about your votes on me. I don't remember any game when you tunneled me and we were both town.
Faust, the narrative is the one you actually gave yourself...you claim its mylo right now. You get my mislynch and win. I think that was a scum slip on your part, but an erroneous one. I don't see how it could be mylo right now, and neither does any other town. Maybe you think you see it (with added scum knowledge), but even then, unless there's some power strengthening scum more than we know, I can't see mylo right now.
Your argument against the Joseph/Faust pairing is that it wouldn't be good scum play. But, if it's mylo like you say it is, isn't it great scum play? Because you win if you lynch me.
Faust, the narrative is the one you actually gave yourself...you claim its mylo right now. You get my mislynch and win. I think that was a scum slip on your part, but an erroneous one. I don't see how it could be mylo right now, and neither does any other town. Maybe you think you see it (with added scum knowledge), but even then, unless there's some power strengthening scum more than we know, I can't see mylo right now.
Your argument against the Joseph/Faust pairing is that it wouldn't be good scum play. But, if it's mylo like you say it is, isn't it great scum play? Because you win if you lynch me.
Because if Joseph is lying about his role, then this isn't MyLo.
Faust, the narrative is the one you actually gave yourself...you claim its mylo right now. You get my mislynch and win. I think that was a scum slip on your part, but an erroneous one. I don't see how it could be mylo right now, and neither does any other town. Maybe you think you see it (with added scum knowledge), but even then, unless there's some power strengthening scum more than we know, I can't see mylo right now.
Your argument against the Joseph/Faust pairing is that it wouldn't be good scum play. But, if it's mylo like you say it is, isn't it great scum play? Because you win if you lynch me.
Because if Joseph is lying about his role, then this isn't MyLo.
I'm saying he's lying about his role, so it isn't mylo.
What's my scum reasoning for that?
If it's mylo because I'm scum, why would I do all this? Why wouldn't I go for an easier mislynch?
What I'm saying is, you are arguing that I think it's mylo and just want one mislynch to win, right? If that's the case, why am I not trying to do it the easy way? If you think I made up my claim to frame someone for a mislynch, why not frame an easier target?
You keep claiming I'm a good scum player. Wouldn't framing anyone else have been the smarter play than lying about Joseph, who I'd already tunneled for days, and then tying him to you and voting for you?
Seriously hope she gets better. This is a game; that is real life- it's definitely fine to focus on that not this.Sorry to be this way, guys, but we just got back from the hospital where we had to put my daughter; she was unresponsive this afternoon and she's perked up but hospital policy says they test her for illness and hold her 48 hours while they get test results.
Dude, put away the phone or whatever. Take care of yourself and your family. We're thinking about you.
Well this makes me think that if Joseph were scum, with that role, then Faust could not be his partner. I doubt Faust tried so hard to oversell Joseph's role as impossible for scum since he actually knows that scum has it. As nonpartner scum, Faust would probably be thinking Joseph is town as he has said, but I still don't think he goes this far just to white knight.
Well this makes me think that if Joseph were scum, with that role, then Faust could not be his partner. I doubt Faust tried so hard to oversell Joseph's role as impossible for scum since he actually knows that scum has it. As nonpartner scum, Faust would probably be thinking Joseph is town as he has said, but I still don't think he goes this far just to white knight.
One more thing to consider: If you'd assume ash is town, then that means that Joseph HAS a partner. Because otherwise ash would also have seen him performing a kill. Not sure if that information is of any use, but it doesn't hurt to put it out there.
Well this makes me think that if Joseph were scum, with that role, then Faust could not be his partner. I doubt Faust tried so hard to oversell Joseph's role as impossible for scum since he actually knows that scum has it. As nonpartner scum, Faust would probably be thinking Joseph is town as he has said, but I still don't think he goes this far just to white knight.
One more thing to consider: If you'd assume ash is town, then that means that Joseph HAS a partner. Because otherwise ash would also have seen him performing a kill. Not sure if that information is of any use, but it doesn't hurt to put it out there.
And I'd seriously doubt I could see a factional kill as a role action, to boot.
I'm a blind follower. Basically a rolecop but I only get type of power performed (I.e., investigative, protective, etc.)
Sorry, it's the weekend, haven't been around. I'm glad we're actually doing this.
I'm a blind follower. Basically a rolecop but I only get type of power performed (I.e., investigative, protective, etc.)
Sorry, it's the weekend, haven't been around. I'm glad we're actually doing this.
This is the claim. Nowhere you say that you only get one action.
And I'd seriously doubt I could see a factional kill as a role action, to boot.
You "doubt"? Man, that is a really obvious scumslip. No way town!ashersky wouldn't have asked about this as soon as he read his role PM.
And I'd seriously doubt I could see a factional kill as a role action, to boot.
You "doubt"? Man, that is a really obvious scumslip. No way town!ashersky wouldn't have asked about this as soon as he read his role PM.
When you start making scum slip arguments, I know you are desperate.
Also, mod!arch wouldn't answer that question.
I'm a blind follower. Basically a rolecop but I only get type of power performed (I.e., investigative, protective, etc.)
Sorry, it's the weekend, haven't been around. I'm glad we're actually doing this.
This is the claim. Nowhere you say that you only get one action.
A month has passed since then. Possibly it could be in your best interest to read the posts that may have been posted since then.
I believe Ichi is voting for me only because either he's scum or he wants to be right so much that he ignores all the facts, so no argument I can make will change his opinion.Um neither. The latter is just WW putting words in my mouth. There is a non-zero chance of me changing my opinion about you. I don't think the argumentation between you and Ash comes out looking conclusive for either of you.
I can't understand why anyone thinks Faust is scum.Really? Try getting tunneled by him the entire game.
I can't understand why anyone thinks Faust is scum.Really? Try getting tunneled by him the entire game.
But seriously. He worked so hard to keep Joseph alive and is now saying that we're probably in mylo because of it. He responded to that point I made by making a really underhanded redirection saying that I'm at fault as well under the assumption we aren't going to lynch any of my preferred targets today. I still fail to see why it was such an incredibly good idea to not lynch Joseph yesterday and let him poison 2 people. faust said that only "ignorant folk" were the ones who wanted to lynch Joseph, yet he is now acting as if that same choice has put us into mylo. He can't argue that it's a good idea to let Joseph live and kill more people and then blame him for putting us into mylo.
What do you mean?
Was leaving Joseph alive yesterday a good idea or not?
It can't have been a very good idea if faust is making doomsday pronouncements about mylo because of the 2 people Joseph supposedly poisoned. I brought up the idea of having Joseph not use his power, which faust aknowledged at the time--and then everyone just ignored it.
Eh
Vote: Silverspawn
Wait, so there's now no doubt that we're in mylo? I mean, is there 0 chance of e and/or chairs being scum or something else happening or being wrong?What do you mean?
Was leaving Joseph alive yesterday a good idea or not?
It can't have been a very good idea if faust is making doomsday pronouncements about mylo because of the 2 people Joseph supposedly poisoned. I brought up the idea of having Joseph not use his power, which faust aknowledged at the time--and then everyone just ignored it.
This is what I mean about you being rhetoric. Doomsday pronouncements? What are you even talking about? That we're at MyLo is just a fact. I don't see a point anywhere in here or how it has anything to do with Faust being scum. Are you saying they're both scum? Or that scum!Faust was so confident in Joseph's ability to pick wrong targets?
But this is the general thing with vigs. They choose well, its awesome. They choose poorly, it sucks.Yeah. faust tried to turn it into some emotional argument about us criticizing Joseph's reads and not "giving him a chance" or whatever, but that's not what it's about. Simply, he was more likely to hit town then scum given random targets. Him having two poisons last night changes the potential drawbacks drastically as well.
But this is the general thing with vigs. They choose well, its awesome. They choose poorly, it sucks.Yeah. faust tried to turn it into some emotional argument about us criticizing Joseph's reads and not "giving him a chance" or whatever, but that's not what it's about. Simply, he was more likely to hit town then scum given random targets. Him having two poisons last night changes the potential drawbacks drastically as well.
Did you answer my question on your role?Ash already asked it. I haven't asked the mod about it yet though. My intuition is that they will not die just because of me, but I am not 100% positive.
But this is the general thing with vigs. They choose well, its awesome. They choose poorly, it sucks.Yeah. faust tried to turn it into some emotional argument about us criticizing Joseph's reads and not "giving him a chance" or whatever, but that's not what it's about. Simply, he was more likely to hit town then scum given random targets. Him having two poisons last night changes the potential drawbacks drastically as well.
I don't really see that (about Faust turning it into an emotional argument).
I think everyone should be able to see that I'm the voice of reason in this discussion while Ichi and ash do nothing but yell "but I'm right! Joseph is a terrible player and needs to be hanged" all the time, lacking any sort of actual argument.Seems pretty clear to me.
But that's true of any vig.True. Having 2 kills makes it even more dangerous though.
Not really. I'm not seeing the same thing you are with Faust. What he's been saying has by and large been making sense to me.
Regarding your whole discussion: I thought (and think) Joseph is town, so I don't want to lynch him. Period. Any argument about why lynching town is good is scummy to me, because hey, lynching scum is always better, so let's try and do that. Yes, Joseph has a scary role that can singlehandedly lose us the game. It's not at all clear that he did. chairs and/or e might still be scum. They weren't unreasonable targets.Totally agree, if town lose because I've made bad decisions, then it's my fault.
I guess what also comes into it is, if I leave Joseph alive and he makes bad decisions, well, it's his fault we lost this game, not mine. If I mislynch town and this costs us the game, I'm to blame. That might not be the best reason ever, but I can't deny that it's there.
re: silver lynch. I think I might be okay with it, but really I prefer ash by a wide margin. If things go really bad, we could still lose by lynching town!silver here. But I guess the same is true tomorrow once ash is dead, so there's that. I want to reread and see if silver makes sense as either ash's or Hydrad's partner.
I have received an answer to my question about my role. If my protection target only needs 1 attack to be killed and one of my lynch choices does not proc, they will die.
I have reread the last few pages, and I guess I'll just point out, what's my motivation as scum to lie or make any of this up? If I think Joseph is town and killed two players who aren't partners with me, why not just ride it out? Faust seems to be making sideways arguments about me and my motivations to lie, but they just aren't making any sense to me.This whole day has confused me, because I'm not lying, but confused as to why ash would lie. I've mentioned a few times today that someone could be lying about their role, and manipulated me last night, but I'm not sure who.
All I can say is that I'm not lying. Maybe Faust of his teammate manipulated my result? Or, as I think, Joseph us lying about his role. Either way, that is what I got.
And Ichi, since you seem to be around, can you please, PLEASE point out the scum narrative for what I've been doing?There could be some truth in what you say about me not wanting to be wrong. Still, I will be surprised if you are town here.
And Ichi, since you seem to be around, can you please, PLEASE point out the scum narrative for what I've been doing?There could be some truth in what you say about me not wanting to be wrong. Still, I will be surprised if you are town here.
I stand by what I said yesterday, that having Joseph kill 2 people was an awful idea. I can kind of understand your statements about shifting responsibility, but man, we could have just had Joseph not use his role, or only kill one person. People can see now that it was a bad idea I think, but I only see scum pushing that narrative so hard yesterday that "I feel like Joseph will hit scum whatever". Having likely 2 more members of town die tonight is awful, yet puts scum in an amazing position!
So we lynch Ash today and then you win.
If so, how are ash and Joseph town together?I don't know. Maybe Ash is your partner, or unknown partner. Maybe scum messed with Ash's role or did something to Joseph that made Ash get the result he did.
I think I know who I want to vote for, but want to hear more from other people before I vote. Especially silverspawn and awaclus and chairs.
What would you like to hear?
Assuming no redirection, either: (1). ash or (2). faust and also me.I think I know who I want to vote for, but want to hear more from other people before I vote. Especially silverspawn and awaclus and chairs.
What would you like to hear?
Who is scum. Specifically between Ash, faust, and Joseph. Because unless scum did an incredible job diverting actions, at least one of them is scum.
If so, how are ash and Joseph town together?I don't know. Maybe Ash is your partner, or unknown partner. Maybe scum messed with Ash's role or did something to Joseph that made Ash get the result he did.
I mean, before you guys all claimed, who was it looking like we were going to lynch today. Me? e?
Then Ash claimed and the focus was on Joseph, and then your claim conflicts with Ash's.
What's the scum narrative for Ash to claim a fake result on Joseph when he knew that you were going to check Joseph's role as well? You had a townread on him before that.
Whose roles are confirmable? It seems like you and Ash are the only people who could directly catch people faking their rolenames/abilities.If so, how are ash and Joseph town together?I don't know. Maybe Ash is your partner, or unknown partner. Maybe scum messed with Ash's role or did something to Joseph that made Ash get the result he did.
So you can't provide a scenario in which your vote against me makes sense? I mean, yeah, maybe scum messed with ash's role, but I don't think people lied about their roles. Do you? Who lies?
Whose roles are confirmable? It seems like you and Ash are the only people who could directly catch people faking their rolenames/abilities.If so, how are ash and Joseph town together?I don't know. Maybe Ash is your partner, or unknown partner. Maybe scum messed with Ash's role or did something to Joseph that made Ash get the result he did.
So you can't provide a scenario in which your vote against me makes sense? I mean, yeah, maybe scum messed with ash's role, but I don't think people lied about their roles. Do you? Who lies?
When did I say both Ash and Joseph have to be town? I mean, I guess if Joseph was town though, why wouldn't scum!faust just agree with Ash's result and then we'd mislynch Joseph? If your were the one lying about your role and had really manipulated the results, that seems kind of pointless to argue against the fake result you created.
PPE: That is partially true. If you're town though, the way you've tunneled me certainly hasn't endeared me to you--and has not helped your credibility with me. Seeing you decry me as scum the entire game when I know otherwise doesn't make me trust your reads very much. I also feel you've been very underhanded in some of your argumentation and twist people's words.
Like the quote about how all Ash and I do is knock Joseph. That's one example.
Mm. Right, I guess I had forgotten that. I'm not convinced that an Ash/faust scumteam is impossible. I guess we really do have to lynch out of Ash/faust/Joseph today though. WW pushing the silver lynch and e pushing, was it me? feels very wrong.
I mean. I feel like if I believe you here, and then we lynch Ash, and I was right and he was town and then you win the game as scum, you'll gloat and people won't remember how I felt for the entire other part of the game.
Eh. I'd hope that I'd get some recognition from you for suspecting you the whole game, (and I don't think you'd be "mean" like that) but I think WW could likely be your partner in that scenario. And he seemed so ticked about how confident I was with my read on you and then chalked it up to dumb luck or something just because I tend to OMGUS people and therefore deserve no credit if I was right about you. That post of his really annoyed me. Like what the heck, the end kind of justifies the means--I think about my reads, I don't just vote people randomly. It felt like a very passive aggressive way of trying to undermine my read on you like "you know even if you're right, you won't get any credit for it anyway".I mean. I feel like if I believe you here, and then we lynch Ash, and I was right and he was town and then you win the game as scum, you'll gloat and people won't remember how I felt for the entire other part of the game.
Man. Do I appear that mean to you? If so, I'm really sorry :-\
The simpler scenario here is that Ash is lying, I think. But in that case, who are the two other scum? Is WW scum? I still don't think e is particular townie either.
If e is still alive tomorrow, Faust, what's your theory? That scum read him and used an attack to save him?
I mean, all through this, I'm looking at all the posts from a "what would ash's partner do?" perspective. Joining the wagon early like you did is unlikely. Heavy white knighting (WW) is possible. Bringing the wagon on me back on track when it starts to look bad for ash (silver) can also be a scumpartner move.
PPE: 2
If e is still alive tomorrow, Faust, what's your theory? That scum read him and used an attack to save him?
Well, if he's scum with his role, he might just be able to attack himself. e should die from protecting people or from poison. If he doesn't do both, then that's weird.
The ends don't justify the means.
Anyway, your hold up on Ash being scum is because you can't figure out the rest of the teams? That doesn't make sense. My guesses would be from e, Silver, you.
If e is still alive tomorrow, Faust, what's your theory? That scum read him and used an attack to save him?
Well, if he's scum with his role, he might just be able to attack himself. e should die from protecting people or from poison. If he doesn't do both, then that's weird.
I thought you said attacking self wasn't possible.
The ends don't justify the means.
Anyway, your hold up on Ash being scum is because you can't figure out the rest of the teams? That doesn't make sense. My guesses would be from e, Silver, you.
I want the information that ash is scum publicly available before we move forward. I also want to see what becomes of the poisoned people.
Hey, here's a thought:
Can a member of one scum faction attack a member of the same scum faction?
If e is still alive tomorrow, Faust, what's your theory? That scum read him and used an attack to save him?
Well, if he's scum with his role, he might just be able to attack himself. e should die from protecting people or from poison. If he doesn't do both, then that's weird.
I thought you said attacking self wasn't possible.
Well, I have no idea what happens if e attacks someone and redirects the attack to himself.
The ends don't justify the means.
Anyway, your hold up on Ash being scum is because you can't figure out the rest of the teams? That doesn't make sense. My guesses would be from e, Silver, you.
I want the information that ash is scum publicly available before we move forward. I also want to see what becomes of the poisoned people.
The ends don't justify the means.
Anyway, your hold up on Ash being scum is because you can't figure out the rest of the teams? That doesn't make sense. My guesses would be from e, Silver, you.
I want the information that ash is scum publicly available before we move forward. I also want to see what becomes of the poisoned people.
The ends don't justify the means.No, I can't hear you!
If I am scum, can I Attack myself? Can I Attack my QT-partner?I don't normally condone self-harm, but sure.
What's the whole thing good for if he decides to unvote right after? You can't argue that he wanted t really bus me, he's just confused here. Inconsistency is a town tell, after all.either for towncred, or he wasn't planing to unvote.
Really?! I mean, put yourself in my shoes. Ash has a result on one of my top townreads which I know is wrong. What do you expect me to do, say "oh well, but he's so townie, maybe Arch just sent him the wrong result?" Any townread I had on ash is completely nullified by this.Even if the result is fake, why does ash have to be scum? Something could have messed with his result, or he could just be lying town. Neither of that seems unlikely enough to justify your behavior. And you usually have zero OMGUS in the way you play.
I already commented on this, but hey, here's me doing it again. I don't think the quitting was fake. Either he was genuinely frustrated (I hope not) or he thought replacing out would make his replacement seem super townie (true). I don't approve of that kind of play, but I know ash does.I don't believe that until I see it. Are you basing this on the fact that he said something about gaining cards on purpose in soccer?
I don't think that's fair. It was like 3 hours before deadline, you can hardly call that a quickhammer.well, that's true.
So I'm a good player, and ash isn't? Okay, so now we get to the point that bugs me the most. Yes, I'm a good player. So why? WHY do I do this? Just anwer me and TELL ME what's the scum narrative. I want to get me and my partner lynched? Because that sounds like a great plan. There is no scum narrative here, none. This is the one crucial question you need to answer if you really think my lynch is the best, and so far everyone has failed to do so.The narrative is to keep Joseph alive - which looks (or at least looked) like it was going to work for quite a while. Yes, you tie yourself together, but that's completely fine for you, especially with Joseph killing two towns today.
Only he didn't really link it, did he? He accepted to be the representative even with this unresolved. It was just a rhethorical thing, never meaning anything.Well, of course he accepted it. The idea to link them is silly. But that doesn't stop me from believing that he was serious.
Silver looks far the guiltiest here. His late and overexpanded jump to your wagon looks suspicious.
I think I know who I want to vote for, but want to hear more from other people before I vote. Especially silverspawn and awaclus and chairs.
What would you like to hear?
Who is scum. Specifically between Ash, faust, and Joseph. Because unless scum did an incredible job diverting actions, at least one of them is scum.
Vote: ash, this is L-2.
No evidence that someone messed with my role yesterday, hence ash must be scum.
Technically faust probably is a partner of mine, as I'm town, and faust probably is (if ash is scum).Vote: ash, this is L-2.
No evidence that someone messed with my role yesterday, hence ash must be scum.
well, we can't expect you to vote for your partner
I will say that faust made one good point -- I should want to lynch Joseph before faust regardless. I was pretty upset overall, so I did let emotion override logic there, but we can't all be Spock. The evidence is much, much firmer against Joseph.
Vote: ash, this is L-2.
No evidence that someone messed with my role yesterday, hence ash must be scum.
Wheee, game start time! vote: Joseph2302 because he'll inevitably be scummy mc scummer pants.
faust being scum isn't a foregone conclusion of mine by any means either
God. This is me countering WW's belief that I will think faust is scum no matter what because of my ego or something. Please tell me this is a joke, because considering how I've been accused of tunneling faust this entire game and overreacting to him, this is incredibly annoying.faust being scum isn't a foregone conclusion of mine by any means either
hedgy
Lets lynch Ichi tomorrow.
God. This is me countering WW's belief that I will think faust is scum no matter what because of my ego or something. Please tell me this is a joke, because considering how I've been accused of tunneling faust this entire game and overreacting to him, this is incredibly annoying.faust being scum isn't a foregone conclusion of mine by any means either
hedgy
Lets lynch Ichi tomorrow.
Scum out of one of WW, faust or e.
But Ichi's half-attack will happen no matter what. Might as well lynch scum while that happens.
I'm having trouble seeing a scum narrative for either faust or Ash concerning how their claims conflict.
But if Joseph is scum, that means faust is as well, and lynching faust is good for my role.
But if Joseph is scum, that means faust is as well, and lynching faust is good for my role.
Not if joseph is a manipulator. Like Ashersky says. And manipulated faust
Oh....k. That would be like incredibly devious and/or incredibly lucky, but I guess that's actually a real possibility. Ok.But if Joseph is scum, that means faust is as well, and lynching faust is good for my role.
Not if joseph is a manipulator. Like Ashersky says. And manipulated faust
But if Joseph is scum, that means faust is as well, and lynching faust is good for my role.
Not if joseph is a manipulator. Like Ashersky says. And manipulated faust
Um.. how? Faust saw you get target by Limited Poisoner (or whatever).. you think Joseph can fabricate a rolename? That would be a weird role.
Well, that's too weak for me.What's the whole thing good for if he decides to unvote right after? You can't argue that he wanted t really bus me, he's just confused here. Inconsistency is a town tell, after all.either for towncred, or he wasn't planing to unvote.
I count out lying town because ash isn't that stupid (had he lied, he wouldn't go on pursuing me). For SOMETHING to have messed with his result, someone must have lied about their role. Who, in your opinion, is that?Really?! I mean, put yourself in my shoes. Ash has a result on one of my top townreads which I know is wrong. What do you expect me to do, say "oh well, but he's so townie, maybe Arch just sent him the wrong result?" Any townread I had on ash is completely nullified by this.Even if the result is fake, why does ash have to be scum? Something could have messed with his result, or he could just be lying town. Neither of that seems unlikely enough to justify your behavior. And you usually have zero OMGUS in the way you play.
Pretty much. I think ash's asking for replacement was highly uncalled for, and I'd be baffled if he truly didn't want to play anymore because of that. Then again, I'm biased in the issue.I already commented on this, but hey, here's me doing it again. I don't think the quitting was fake. Either he was genuinely frustrated (I hope not) or he thought replacing out would make his replacement seem super townie (true). I don't approve of that kind of play, but I know ash does.I don't believe that until I see it. Are you basing this on the fact that he said something about gaining cards on purpose in soccer?
Look. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either Joseph and me are lying scum, in which case Joseph doesn't have a killing role (but a manipulative one), and what you say makes no sense. Or he's a poisoner, and town, in which case what you say makes no sense.So I'm a good player, and ash isn't? Okay, so now we get to the point that bugs me the most. Yes, I'm a good player. So why? WHY do I do this? Just anwer me and TELL ME what's the scum narrative. I want to get me and my partner lynched? Because that sounds like a great plan. There is no scum narrative here, none. This is the one crucial question you need to answer if you really think my lynch is the best, and so far everyone has failed to do so.The narrative is to keep Joseph alive - which looks (or at least looked) like it was going to work for quite a while. Yes, you tie yourself together, but that's completely fine for you, especially with Joseph killing two towns today.
And that #3 is the rub.
You have to think I barreled headlong into a situation where lying was 100% sure to be caught on purpose, whereas Faust ensured he was in a position to manipulate everyone and everything from a position of complete safety.
Why did I throw game if I'm scum? Because Arch couldn't find a sub?
And lastly, that Faust has been painting a picture of me as a cheating bastard is completely unfair and dirty, and has nothing to do with a game of mafia. I would have, as a mod, warned him that he's breaking the civility pledge.
Why is it a personal attack? It's well established on f.ds that threatening the quit/sub out is not fair play, no matter how you feel about it. To say I'd purposefully do it anyway is to say ashersky the person, not ashersky the mafia games player, is so disrespectful to his fellow players and mods and friends that he'd do it anyway.
That is hurtful. If you think I'm a lying bastard with no feelings, maybe that my fault. But hopefully you can see why I don't want to play with you anymore.
I'm doing my best to just understand that you are scum and don't really mean it, and I need to just forgive and forget. But it's hard sometimes.
I feel so much better now that I have made a decision. It is really awesome. And I think it is the right decision. Ashersky and Faust both claim different results about joseph.
The only way to truly clear this up is to see what Joseph truly is. So lets lynch him. And I think he will flip scum
And I'd seriously doubt I could see a factional kill as a role action, to boot.
You "doubt"? Man, that is a really obvious scumslip. No way town!ashersky wouldn't have asked about this as soon as he read his role PM.
When you start making scum slip arguments, I know you are desperate.
Also, mod!arch wouldn't answer that question.
And lastly, that Faust has been painting a picture of me as a cheating bastard is completely unfair and dirty, and has nothing to do with a game of mafia. I would have, as a mod, warned him that he's breaking the civility pledge.
Why is it a personal attack? It's well established on f.ds that threatening the quit/sub out is not fair play, no matter how you feel about it. To say I'd purposefully do it anyway is to say ashersky the person, not ashersky the mafia games player, is so disrespectful to his fellow players and mods and friends that he'd do it anyway.
That is hurtful. If you think I'm a lying bastard with no feelings, maybe that my fault. But hopefully you can see why I don't want to play with you anymore.
I'm doing my best to just understand that you are scum and don't really mean it, and I need to just forgive and forget. But it's hard sometimes.
I'm sorry to have hurt your feelings. for me, there were only two options:
- you seriously wanted out after heating on a discussion. I did not do anything for you to be offended about (in my opinion). You didn't give me a chance to explain myself, you just said, quote, "fuck it", and went.
- you are scum using a replacement to appear townie.
As I'm sad to say, neither of these options puts you into a very good light for me. The latter would actually be more understandable for me.
And that #3 is the rub.
You have to think I barreled headlong into a situation where lying was 100% sure to be caught on purpose, whereas Faust ensured he was in a position to manipulate everyone and everything from a position of complete safety.
Why did I throw game if I'm scum? Because Arch couldn't find a sub?
You did not throw the game. Obviously.
You realize I didn't ask Arch, right? I'm saying that a mod won't answer questions about other people's roles.
I have two mods who can confirm I definitely, 100% wanted to quit this game and only stayed in because they couldn't find a replacement. Obviously they can't do that until the game ends (unless you think they'll answer that, too? Anything I say a mod won't answer you automatically say is wrong.), but it's the truth.
And that #3 is the rub.
You have to think I barreled headlong into a situation where lying was 100% sure to be caught on purpose, whereas Faust ensured he was in a position to manipulate everyone and everything from a position of complete safety.
Why did I throw game if I'm scum? Because Arch couldn't find a sub?
You did not throw the game. Obviously.
If I'm scum, game over for scum because of something I did on purpose. That's the very definition of "throwing the game."
There are literally dozens of ways for all of these claims to play out. I can imagine all of us telling the truth and some hidden scum player having made all this happen. One bus-drive is all it took.
[...]
It's because they do. They are scum partners.
If you say "do factional abilities count as role abilities for other players" no mod can answer that. The stock response is "I can only answer questions related to your role, not the roles of other players."
That's the "role" I'm talking about.
And that #3 is the rub.
You have to think I barreled headlong into a situation where lying was 100% sure to be caught on purpose, whereas Faust ensured he was in a position to manipulate everyone and everything from a position of complete safety.
Why did I throw game if I'm scum? Because Arch couldn't find a sub?
You did not throw the game. Obviously.
If I'm scum, game over for scum because of something I did on purpose. That's the very definition of "throwing the game."
How is the game over for scum?
And that #3 is the rub.
You have to think I barreled headlong into a situation where lying was 100% sure to be caught on purpose, whereas Faust ensured he was in a position to manipulate everyone and everything from a position of complete safety.
Why did I throw game if I'm scum? Because Arch couldn't find a sub?
You did not throw the game. Obviously.
If I'm scum, game over for scum because of something I did on purpose. That's the very definition of "throwing the game."
How is the game over for scum?
How is it not? If I'm Hydrad's partner, scum can't kill every night (2 lynched plus all night actions for every night kill? Impossible odds.). If I'm not with hydrad, slightly better, but the numbers are way down and I'd bet any amount of money scum can't win it.
I like high risk/high reward play. That's no secret. But this "gambit" as scum was high risk/zero reward. If I wanted to mislynch someone, I just would have mislynched him. Go read my previous games as scum.
If you say "do factional abilities count as role abilities for other players" no mod can answer that. The stock response is "I can only answer questions related to your role, not the roles of other players."
That's the "role" I'm talking about.
Did you read how Arch just answered a question WW had about scum's attack? Publicly?
If you say "do factional abilities count as role abilities for other players" no mod can answer that. The stock response is "I can only answer questions related to your role, not the roles of other players."
That's the "role" I'm talking about.
Did you read how Arch just answered a question WW had about scum's attack? Publicly?
He answered a mechanics question.
Hey, bold a question about your role and how it interacts with another player's role and see if he answers it.
Here, I'll do it for you: If silverspawn roleblocked Faust, will his action still succeed?
Hey Faust, why didn't scum kill you last night? After XP, your claimed role, confirmed by me and your result, was EASILY the most dangerous remaining.
They killed XP no problem. Any reason you were left alive?
(hint: it's because you are scum and didn't shoot yourself)
If you think he'll answer, why don't you ask?
Hey Faust, why didn't scum kill you last night? After XP, your claimed role, confirmed by me and your result, was EASILY the most dangerous remaining.
They killed XP no problem. Any reason you were left alive?
(hint: it's because you are scum and didn't shoot yourself)
e.
And that #3 is the rub.
You have to think I barreled headlong into a situation where lying was 100% sure to be caught on purpose, whereas Faust ensured he was in a position to manipulate everyone and everything from a position of complete safety.
Why did I throw game if I'm scum? Because Arch couldn't find a sub?
You did not throw the game. Obviously.
If I'm scum, game over for scum because of something I did on purpose. That's the very definition of "throwing the game."
How is the game over for scum?
How is it not? If I'm Hydrad's partner, scum can't kill every night (2 lynched plus all night actions for every night kill? Impossible odds.). If I'm not with hydrad, slightly better, but the numbers are way down and I'd bet any amount of money scum can't win it.
I like high risk/high reward play. That's no secret. But this "gambit" as scum was high risk/zero reward. If I wanted to mislynch someone, I just would have mislynched him. Go read my previous games as scum.
You win with a mislynch though.
And how is what Joseph/me are doing (if we're scum) not throwing the game?
Hey Faust, why didn't scum kill you last night? After XP, your claimed role, confirmed by me and your result, was EASILY the most dangerous remaining.
They killed XP no problem. Any reason you were left alive?
(hint: it's because you are scum and didn't shoot yourself)
e.
What?
If you think he'll answer, why don't you ask?
Ask what?
And why are you only selectively answering my posts?
Hey Faust, why didn't scum kill you last night? After XP, your claimed role, confirmed by me and your result, was EASILY the most dangerous remaining.
They killed XP no problem. Any reason you were left alive?
(hint: it's because you are scum and didn't shoot yourself)
e.
What?
e can redirect the scum attack from me. Scum either knows that and doesn't want to target me, or e is scum and doesn't want to appear scummy when I die.
And how is what Joseph/me are doing (if we're scum) not throwing the game?
And how is what Joseph/me are doing (if we're scum) not throwing the game?
And that #3 is the rub.
You have to think I barreled headlong into a situation where lying was 100% sure to be caught on purpose, whereas Faust ensured he was in a position to manipulate everyone and everything from a position of complete safety.
Why did I throw game if I'm scum? Because Arch couldn't find a sub?
You did not throw the game. Obviously.
If I'm scum, game over for scum because of something I did on purpose. That's the very definition of "throwing the game."
How is the game over for scum?
How is it not? If I'm Hydrad's partner, scum can't kill every night (2 lynched plus all night actions for every night kill? Impossible odds.). If I'm not with hydrad, slightly better, but the numbers are way down and I'd bet any amount of money scum can't win it.
I like high risk/high reward play. That's no secret. But this "gambit" as scum was high risk/zero reward. If I wanted to mislynch someone, I just would have mislynched him. Go read my previous games as scum.
You win with a mislynch though.
And how is what Joseph/me are doing (if we're scum) not throwing the game?
You win with a mislynch, though, right?
If you get the mislynch (me), you win, according to you.
If you fail and Joseph is lynched, you still have you left to force my mislynch.
If you fail and you are lynched, that's probably game over.
2/3 chance of winning isn't throwing the game, in my estimation.
Ask whatever question it is you want me to have asked Arch.
I mean, fuck dude, you accuse me of not answering a question, making me seem scummy for it, and yet I had already on the same very page.
This is what I mean by you just having to do whatever you have to as scum to survive. I am trying my best to not take it personally, since it has to be based on your alignment.
I've modded scum Faust before, and you've always had a hard "stab a puppy with a fork if it me a I can win" attitude, but you've really taken it to the next level.
[/quote
Civility, man.
Ask whatever question it is you want me to have asked Arch.
I have to remind myself that I'm not doing this for you, but for the other players involved.
You can ask questions about your role.
Everyone can ask questions about the setup.
I cannot ask questions about your role.
A question that has to do with your role and the setup can only be posed by you. But then it will be answered.
I've modded scum Faust before, and you've always had a hard "stab a puppy with a fork if it me a I can win" attitude, but you've really taken it to the next level.
[/quote
Civility, man.
I just complimented your scum play. How's that uncivil?
You win with a mislynch, though, right?
If you get the mislynch (me), you win, according to you.
If you fail and Joseph is lynched, you still have you left to force my mislynch.
If you fail and you are lynched, that's probably game over.
2/3 chance of winning isn't throwing the game, in my estimation.
I've modded scum Faust before, and you've always had a hard "stab a puppy with a fork if it me a I can win" attitude, but you've really taken it to the next level.
Civility, man.
Arch, if I target Faust with my role and he performs the factional kill in addition to any other role actions he may have, can I see Faust perform the factional kill as one of my results?
You win with a mislynch, though, right?
If you get the mislynch (me), you win, according to you.
If you fail and Joseph is lynched, you still have you left to force my mislynch.
If you fail and you are lynched, that's probably game over.
2/3 chance of winning isn't throwing the game, in my estimation.
.
..
...
....
.....
......
.......
I hope I'm calm enough now.
If Joseph is lying scum, then scum DOES NOT win with a mislynch. For god's sake.
Arch, if I target Faust with my role and he performs the factional kill in addition to any other role actions he may have, can I see Faust perform the factional kill as one of my results?
And of course, such questions can only be posed via PM. Stop derailing the game by puposefully misinterpreting everything I say. Or maybe don't, because everyone an see that you're scrambling scum now. I guess that's a good thing.
Arch, if I target Faust with my role and he performs the factional kill in addition to any other role actions he may have, can I see Faust perform the factional kill as one of my results?
And of course, such questions can only be posed via PM. Stop derailing the game by puposefully misinterpreting everything I say. Or maybe don't, because everyone an see that you're scrambling scum now. I guess that's a good thing.
You just made a point about WW asking in thread.
And if I said I asked by PM, you would just say I lied, right?
Arch, if I target Faust with my role and he performs the factional kill in addition to any other role actions he may have, can I see Faust perform the factional kill as one of my results?
And of course, such questions can only be posed via PM. Stop derailing the game by puposefully misinterpreting everything I say. Or maybe don't, because everyone an see that you're scrambling scum now. I guess that's a good thing.
You just made a point about WW asking in thread.
And if I said I asked by PM, you would just say I lied, right?
WW's question obviously didn't involve his own role. You're a mod, you know confirming people's roles in thread is a no go. What is this even about?
To the second question: Yes.
QuoteI've modded scum Faust before, and you've always had a hard "stab a puppy with a fork if it me a I can win" attitude, but you've really taken it to the next level.
Civility, man.
I just complimented your scum play. How's that uncivil?
If I am scum, can I Attack myself? Can I Attack my QT-partner?
QuoteI've modded scum Faust before, and you've always had a hard "stab a puppy with a fork if it me a I can win" attitude, but you've really taken it to the next level.
Civility, man.
I just complimented your scum play. How's that uncivil?
If I say you're willing to replace out to win, that's rude. If you say I'm willing to stab a puppy with a fork to win, that's a compliment.
What if you are lying scum, Joseph is misplayed town, then do you win with a mislynch?
(You can sub my name for yours in that line, and it still works, right?)
If I am scum, can I Attack myself? Can I Attack my QT-partner?
This question, starting wth an "if"-clause, does not involve WW's role, or alignment.
QuoteI've modded scum Faust before, and you've always had a hard "stab a puppy with a fork if it me a I can win" attitude, but you've really taken it to the next level.
Civility, man.
I just complimented your scum play. How's that uncivil?
If I say you're willing to replace out to win, that's rude. If you say I'm willing to stab a puppy with a fork to win, that's a compliment.
I clearly don't think you'd stab an actual puppy. It was a metaphor for how cutthroat you are. Sorry if you thought I meant it literally.
If I am scum, can I Attack myself? Can I Attack my QT-partner?I don't normally condone self-harm, but sure.
What if you are lying scum, Joseph is misplayed town, then do you win with a mislynch?
(You can sub my name for yours in that line, and it still works, right?)
Err, yes. But if you believe that, why do you vote for Joseph?
QuoteI've modded scum Faust before, and you've always had a hard "stab a puppy with a fork if it me a I can win" attitude, but you've really taken it to the next level.
Civility, man.
I just complimented your scum play. How's that uncivil?
If I say you're willing to replace out to win, that's rude. If you say I'm willing to stab a puppy with a fork to win, that's a compliment.
I clearly don't think you'd stab an actual puppy. It was a metaphor for how cutthroat you are. Sorry if you thought I meant it literally.
Well, not quite literally, but I heard "willing to hurt other people's feelings on purpose". If that's not what you meant, we're good.
If I am scum, can I Attack myself? Can I Attack my QT-partner?I don't normally condone self-harm, but sure.
This only answers the first question, if you want to be extra-pedantic.
If I am scum, can I Attack myself? Can I Attack my QT-partner?I don't normally condone self-harm, but sure.
This only answers the first question, if you want to be extra-pedantic.
Ooh! I do!
Doesn't that prove my point? Arch answered the conditional setup question but not the one that refers directly to a (his?) role.
What if you are lying scum, Joseph is misplayed town, then do you win with a mislynch?
(You can sub my name for yours in that line, and it still works, right?)
Err, yes. But if you believe that, why do you vote for Joseph?
Thanks for admitting it. And thanks for walking right into your own trap.
Either of us, as scum, had the game won with a mislynch IF Joseph is town, per your own admission and posts.
I was pushing for Joseph's lynch today. If I'm scum, I want to lynch him to win, right? You sat tempted to stop that with your result claim. So you took an active measure to redirect the pressure, votes, etc. to me. Why? Because Joseph isn't town, but your partner.
You ensured we got a mislynch on D3 with your quick hammer. Had I gone after someone else, or had anyone else been the top lynch candidate, you would have just gone with it. But I stumbled upon your partner, the only person you can't lynch for a win (edge case - Hydrad's partner).
You used the fear of mylo to create a viable narrative for why I would go so far out on a limb. But your own logic proves that the much more likely scenario is that you and Joseph are partners and we aren't in mylo.
Because if I were scum, I'd be happy lynching any town, not Joseph specifically. And that's where your scum narrative for me falls apart.
Ichi: If we lynch, it's down to two players you can choose, right? I think that's too dangerous (see: today). In my opinion, you should do nothing. But: I might want to check so. So... you could just target chairs, he's going to die anyway? That seems like a good choice.
silver: Blocking may be crucial. But you can only block on 2 people, that's not very impressive. The right choice might make a big difference still. I think with ash gone we're 1/1 on the scum team, so we might actually direct who you block publicly in case you die. But it's probably still better not to.
e: Your main task is to try and stay alive. Or at least attract scum's attack. So choose at will.
chairs: Man, you're going to die. It would be nice if you could collect your thoughts post-lynch and send a reads list to someone you think will stay alive. Only if you've got the time of course.
me: I'm not sure there's much more to be done with my role. What I want to do most I think is check WW. So it would be cool if his target was publicly announced.
WW: This leaves the question, who's the best target? We already have e and silver, so the next best thing would be Ichi I guess? Awaclus is the only other reasonable target, but his play suggests he's town.
Awaclus: I'll be doing some targeting. Since I may be a scum target, it may be good for you to steal my result. But then you could be in the center of scum's attention. I think you should do something equivalent to flipping a die here... think about how likely scum is targetting me, and then do something according to that.
Joseph: I'm not sure we want another poisoning... then again, we might. Can we decide on a target? Ichi? silver? WW? Awaclus?
silver and e read most like ash's partners to me, with WW a possibility as well.
For Hydrad's partner... don't know, gotta reread.
silver and e read most like ash's partners to me, with WW a possibility as well.
For Hydrad's partner... don't know, gotta reread.
Ash makes sense as Hydrad's partner. Silver as well.
silver and e read most like ash's partners to me, with WW a possibility as well.
For Hydrad's partner... don't know, gotta reread.
Ash makes sense as Hydrad's partner. Silver as well.
Uhh... I really don't think ash would play that way as Hydrad's partner.
Why do you say that?
He had almost nothing to say on Hydrad Day 1 except that there wasn't much of a case against him. It doesn't seem different than how Ash has treated partners before.
This is a blatant lie or a scum slip. Scum can 1000000% kill their partners in any normal mafia game, so why would this be different? If they can't think game, it's because you asked and found out.
Sure. I asked and found out, then I posted the answer here, cause that's the clever kid I am.- Attacks from one faction can affect members of the other faction. [color]
So I read this as "mafia can't self-attack". It's ambiguous though.
Okay.
How are you certain he's scum, though?
This is a blatant lie or a scum slip. Scum can 1000000% kill their partners in any normal mafia game, so why would this be different? If they can't think game, it's because you asked and found out.
Sure. I asked and found out, then I posted the answer here, cause that's the clever kid I am.- Attacks from one faction can affect members of the other faction. [color]
So I read this as "mafia can't self-attack". It's ambiguous though.
So you never actually asked about this?
By the way, I can only see each role once. Better to get this out now.
By the way, I can only see each role once. Better to get this out now.
Okay, why hide that?
if ash flips town, which I think is going to happen, I'll claim IC
if ash flips town, which I think is going to happen, I'll claim IC
Totally towny
Just woke up, if Ash flips town, should I not listen to faust's direction about my role?
Just woke up, if Ash flips town, should I not listen to faust's direction about my role?
being me is a scumslip.
\Just woke up, if Ash flips town, should I not listen to faust's direction about my role?
You could try using your role in a townie manor... you know.. just to mix things up~
\Just woke up, if Ash flips town, should I not listen to faust's direction about my role?
You could try using your role in a townie manor... you know.. just to mix things up~
Fine. I may not though if I don't feel confident about my reads or don't think people with agree with me, again.
Or, manner.
K. I will use my power for sure then if Ash flips town, because we pretty much know who scum is then.
Or, manner.
?
wasn't e poisoned? if so, lynching him doesn't do much if he's town. we create an IC that dies the next night.
e is poisoned, as long as you believe me.wasn't e poisoned? if so, lynching him doesn't do much if he's town. we create an IC that dies the next night.
Well, yes.
Just to clarify, Poisoned people are supposed to die tonight, right?Yes. Unless they were attacked.
Does that hold true for both nights? e.g. the night you poisoned them, and this coming night?Yes, if someone attacks them tonight or last night, they don't get poisoned.
You are a Blind Follower. Each night, you may target a player. You will be told one of the types of actions they successfully completed that night. Your result will be prioritized based on this list: {Protective, Manipulative, Investigative, Supportive, Killing}. You will be told "No Result" if their action was blocked or your action was blocked.
You are a Regulator. Each night you may target a player. For every 3 players alive (rounded down), you may name a player. Any actions your target takes against the named players will fail.
You are a Henchman. Each night, you may target one target a player. Each Action that has targeted that player, but has never targeted you before, will target you instead of the intended target tonight.
You are a Mailman (with Return Postage). Each night, you may target one player. Tell me a message 500 characters or less. This message will be sent to the targeted player (they will not know you sent it). At anytime during the following day, they may respond to your message with whatever of the 500 characters went unused. I will send their message back to you as soon as they reply and I am online.
You are a Blackmailer. Each night, you may target a player. For every 3 players alive (rounded down), you may tell me a player name. If any of the given player names is lynched, your target will be protected from all "Attacks" the following night. If none of them are lynched (or a no lynch occurs) your target will take one less "Attack" to be killed the following night. Your target will be made aware of all of this, but not who targeted them.
You are a Pickpocket. Each night, you may target a player. If they were to receive any results for any actions that night, you will receive them instead. When being sent their results, your target will receive “No Result” instead of the actual results. If they had nothing to steal, your target will be notified that some tried to pickpocket them.
You are a Partial Governor. Each night, you may target a player. They will secretly become 'Half-Lynchproof' for the rest of the game. Whenever a Half-Lynchproof player is lynched, the lynch will fail - but only if they share your alignment. If this power does cause a lynch to fail, all Half-lynchproofs will be removed from players.
You are a Role Watcher. Each night, you may target a player. You will be told the names of any Roles that successfully targeted your target (besides this role) that night. However, each role can only be investigated once such that any future investigations will not show roles that have been detected on previous nights.
You are a Limited Poisoner. Each night, you may target one player. At the end of the following night, they will die. However, if your target is “Attacked” that night or the following night, the poison will be bled out and the kill will not succeed.
And, unfortunately another game ends with a modkill.yeah... so, I disagree with the modkill here. I don't think it's a big deal, because town was going to win anyway (and rightfully so), but still; chairs had good reason to be inactive. Has he at least been warned before he got killed?
No. When I blackmailed him last night, I really did think silver was town. This game is probably testament to how I'm pretty much blind to scum buddying me.
I did begin to lose my scumread on faust as time went on though--and although I knew (some) of the reasons why silver switched to faust, the way he did so looked really bad to me. By the time Ash flipped, I was super happy with the way things had gone, with my new knowledge that my role could kill people as well.
PPE: yeah, I was wondering the same thing.
No, it was just for flavor. He would of died of Poison anyway.And, unfortunately another game ends with a modkill.yeah... so, I disagree with the modkill here. I don't think it's a big deal, because town was going to win anyway (and rightfully so), but still; chairs had good reason to be inactive. Has he at least been warned before he got killed?
Archetype, your actions list is wrong, as far as what I received N2. I didn't get that sentence you wrote there, just "Your target performed a Killing Action."Ah, well, semantics. I was on mobile when I did all the night stuff.
I had a real hard time believing you could actually thin Faust was scum.I still don't like the way he tunneled me. And I think his style of argumentation can sometimes be mocking of his opponents. Like I said, I felt much better about him as time went on...not just because he didn't suspect me as much either.
No, it was just for flavor. He would of died of Poison anyway.uh... okay. it comes across kind of reproachful though.
reading silver's qt is funny. I'm interested, when you say my choices sucked, did you mean like for you personally since they were all on your townreads?yeah.
I had a real hard time believing you could actually thin Faust was scum.I still don't like the way he tunneled me. And I think his style of argumentation can sometimes be mocking of his opponents. Like I said, I felt much better about him as time went on...not just because he didn't suspect me as much either.
But hey, he was right about Ash, and Joseph.
reading silver's qt is funny. I'm interested, when you say my choices sucked, did you mean like for you personally since they were all on your townreads?
Which would have actually been terrible given silver's alignment, but I see what you're saying. I asked people a bunch of times for their input on that, but no one really said anything.
Yeah, I think governing me was probably the right call. After ash's flip, it made faust much trustworthier (but of course you trusted him before that).
Thank you all for playing the game! The goal for was for it to be a game where roles are assigned independent of alignment and players are able to influence the game post-death. I think I met both of these criteria, though it did not turn out as well as I hoped. Mafia was definitely underpowered here and they needed more factional powers to make up for it. I considered giving them Daychat, but that probably wouldn't have even been enough. Oh well.
Well played, Town and interesting last-resort by ashersky. If faust had been lynched, silverspawn and chairs would have survived. MVP and that open version I mentioned in the Mod QT will be coming soon.
And I was wrong about faust! And faust was wrong about me!
Glad we won, because I messed up timings and missed opportunity to reply to chairs, and didn't submit a night action.
Yes, this is correct.Glad we won, because I messed up timings and missed opportunity to reply to chairs, and didn't submit a night action.
The way I understand it, you would still have had time, but it was already clear that town won, so Arch just ended it.
- When a Mafia-aligned player is Attacked, they are told the Attacker's identity [So scum doesn't get screwed over when they Attack their hidden partners].