Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Witherweaver]

I want to stress again just how incredibly scummy, disengenous, low-down, loathesome, and heretical faust's post was.  He uses a holier-than-thou tone to "break down" the ONLY possible options, but leaves out the most important one, that he himself could be lying.

It's the biggest misdirection ploy in a single post I've ever seen.  It's like:

"The answer to the math question about adding whole, positive numbers is 8.  The only possible way to get 8 by adding whole positive numbers is 1+7, 2+6, and 3+5."

Faust lying is 4+4, and he left it out.

I don't agree this is scummy.  I tend to leave out scum!me scenarios when considering things.. actually I think town is somewhat more likely to do it than scum (modulo meta). One, scum wants to make sure everything is polished, and two, town knows they're telling the truth.

[ashersky]

But your "me or him" post came *before* Faust claimed his night action.  He had only voted you.  How could you know there wasn't a town!Faust explanation?

I knew from the moment I got my result PM that faust had to be the partner because of the way he'd been treating Joseph the entire time.  And he just solidified it when he was pushing for claiming order, then freaking out about me not claiming on time (way too concerned there, if you go back and look), and then his seagull poop response when I caught his partner.

It's me (and whoever is with me) vs. Joseph/Faust.  And then we need to find Hydrad's partner.

[ashersky]

I want to stress again just how incredibly scummy, disengenous, low-down, loathesome, and heretical faust's post was.  He uses a holier-than-thou tone to "break down" the ONLY possible options, but leaves out the most important one, that he himself could be lying.

It's the biggest misdirection ploy in a single post I've ever seen.  It's like:

"The answer to the math question about adding whole, positive numbers is 8.  The only possible way to get 8 by adding whole positive numbers is 1+7, 2+6, and 3+5."

Faust lying is 4+4, and he left it out.

I don't agree this is scummy.  I tend to leave out scum!me scenarios when considering things.. actually I think town is somewhat more likely to do it than scum (modulo meta). One, scum wants to make sure everything is polished, and two, town knows they're telling the truth.

I fully disagree with you.  I always include the "I'm scum" scenario when I'm town.  Otherwise you aren't being honest or sincere.  To leave that out is inherently scummy to the nth degree.

[Witherweaver]

But your "me or him" post came *before* Faust claimed his night action.  He had only voted you.  How could you know there wasn't a town!Faust explanation?

I knew from the moment I got my result PM that faust had to be the partner because of the way he'd been treating Joseph the entire time.  And he just solidified it when he was pushing for claiming order, then freaking out about me not claiming on time (way too concerned there, if you go back and look), and then his seagull poop response when I caught his partner.

It's me (and whoever is with me) vs. Joseph/Faust.  And then we need to find Hydrad's partner.

Sweet. then I'm an IC

[Witherweaver]

Damn, I should have chosen Faust.  Or tried Ash again.

[Awaclus]

I fully disagree with you.  I always include the "I'm scum" scenario when I'm town.  Otherwise you aren't being honest or sincere.  To leave that out is inherently scummy to the nth degree.

I'm being honest and sincere when I leave out the "I'm scum" scenario when I'm town. It's completely true that I'm not scum so there's nothing dishonest or insincere about that.

[ashersky]

But your "me or him" post came *before* Faust claimed his night action.  He had only voted you.  How could you know there wasn't a town!Faust explanation?

I knew from the moment I got my result PM that faust had to be the partner because of the way he'd been treating Joseph the entire time.  And he just solidified it when he was pushing for claiming order, then freaking out about me not claiming on time (way too concerned there, if you go back and look), and then his seagull poop response when I caught his partner.

It's me (and whoever is with me) vs. Joseph/Faust.  And then we need to find Hydrad's partner.

Sweet. then I'm an IC

Because you can't be Hydrad's partner?  I think that you take everyone that isn't Joseph/Faust and you look at them closely to see if they could be Hydrad's partner.

You want to make a scum case on me?  I didn't vote for him (wouldn't vote for him) on D1.  That isn't great.  But if I'm Hydrad's partner, seems pretty crazy stupid for me to go out on a limb with a lie at this point in the game, don't you think?

[Awaclus]

I'm more inclined to lynch one of faust/Joseph than ashersky today, because I agree that they're probably partners if one of them is scum. If ashersky is scum, then we still need to find his partner (although I think Ichi is a pretty good choice, but it's not as clear).

[ashersky]

I fully disagree with you.  I always include the "I'm scum" scenario when I'm town.  Otherwise you aren't being honest or sincere.  To leave that out is inherently scummy to the nth degree.

I'm being honest and sincere when I leave out the "I'm scum" scenario when I'm town. It's completely true that I'm not scum so there's nothing dishonest or insincere about that.

Not for your reader.  How can we trust you?  We don't know if you are town.  If you are purporting to be presenting a fully honest and neutral case for everyone to review and decide upon, you have to include all possibilities.  If you don't, we will just assume you are hiding it on purpose.

[silverspawn]

I fully disagree with you.  I always include the "I'm scum" scenario when I'm town.  Otherwise you aren't being honest or sincere.  To leave that out is inherently scummy to the nth degree.

I'm being honest and sincere when I leave out the "I'm scum" scenario when I'm town. It's completely true that I'm not scum so there's nothing dishonest or insincere about that.

yeah. I recall several instances where I had to make this decision as town and consciously decided to leave the scum!me narrative out in order to appear more towny.

[Awaclus]

I fully disagree with you.  I always include the "I'm scum" scenario when I'm town.  Otherwise you aren't being honest or sincere.  To leave that out is inherently scummy to the nth degree.

I'm being honest and sincere when I leave out the "I'm scum" scenario when I'm town. It's completely true that I'm not scum so there's nothing dishonest or insincere about that.

Not for your reader.  How can we trust you?  We don't know if you are town.  If you are purporting to be presenting a fully honest and neutral case for everyone to review and decide upon, you have to include all possibilities.  If you don't, we will just assume you are hiding it on purpose.

Of course I'm hiding it on purpose. Town doesn't need that information because it's not true anyway, why would I put it there? It would just make my post longer, which is something I always try to avoid.

[ashersky]

I think hiding anything on purpose (edge cases excluded) is scummy.

To answer a previous question, I think the duplicator action would fall under supportive, which is a category of action possible.

[Awaclus]

I think hiding anything on purpose (edge cases excluded) is scummy.

I think hiding anything that would help town on purpose is scummy. Hiding anything that distracts town is towny.

[Joseph2302]

But your "me or him" post came *before* Faust claimed his night action.  He had only voted you.  How could you know there wasn't a town!Faust explanation?

I knew from the moment I got my result PM that faust had to be the partner because of the way he'd been treating Joseph the entire time.  And he just solidified it when he was pushing for claiming order, then freaking out about me not claiming on time (way too concerned there, if you go back and look), and then his seagull poop response when I caught his partner.

It's me (and whoever is with me) vs. Joseph/Faust.  And then we need to find Hydrad's partner.

I'm confused, because I know I'm not lying, but ash has felt towny all game to me. Does that mean faust is scum? That still doesn't explain ash's night action thing.

[2.71828.....]

But your "me or him" post came *before* Faust claimed his night action.  He had only voted you.  How could you know there wasn't a town!Faust explanation?

I knew from the moment I got my result PM that faust had to be the partner because of the way he'd been treating Joseph the entire time.  And he just solidified it when he was pushing for claiming order, then freaking out about me not claiming on time (way too concerned there, if you go back and look), and then his seagull poop response when I caught his partner.

It's me (and whoever is with me) vs. Joseph/Faust.  And then we need to find Hydrad's partner.

I'm confused, because I know I'm not lying, but ash has felt towny all game to me. Does that mean faust is scum? That still doesn't explain ash's night action thing.

There is a narrative where faust, claiming last always because we let him, can claim whatever he wants.

For example, his claim today.  He was given all the information he needed before claiming.  I mean, that is on us somewhat.  Investigative roles are definitely more trustworthy when claiming first.  Then if someone contradicts it is a clear "me vs you" scenario.

[2.71828.....]

Not saying I believe that narrative at the moment.  Haven't made up my mind yet.  Just thinking out loud

[Witherweaver]

I think hiding anything on purpose (edge cases excluded) is scummy.

To answer a previous question, I think the duplicator action would fall under supportive, which is a category of action possible.

I think creating the duplicator (I.e., ADKs role) sounds Supportive, but Joseph used the item.

[Witherweaver]

But your "me or him" post came *before* Faust claimed his night action.  He had only voted you.  How could you know there wasn't a town!Faust explanation?

I knew from the moment I got my result PM that faust had to be the partner because of the way he'd been treating Joseph the entire time.  And he just solidified it when he was pushing for claiming order, then freaking out about me not claiming on time (way too concerned there, if you go back and look), and then his seagull poop response when I caught his partner.

It's me (and whoever is with me) vs. Joseph/Faust.  And then we need to find Hydrad's partner.

I'm confused, because I know I'm not lying, but ash has felt towny all game to me. Does that mean faust is scum? That still doesn't explain ash's night action thing.

There is a narrative where faust, claiming last always because we let him, can claim whatever he wants.

For example, his claim today.  He was given all the information he needed before claiming.  I mean, that is on us somewhat.  Investigative roles are definitely more trustworthy when claiming first.  Then if someone contradicts it is a clear "me vs you" scenario.

Yeah, but the thing is, how often does scum do that and insist on controlling the plan and claiming last?  Maybe Faust is a bold enough scum to do it, but more often scum has a little bit of "hey is this okay with everyone?" to their ideas.

[ashersky]

I think hiding anything on purpose (edge cases excluded) is scummy.

To answer a previous question, I think the duplicator action would fall under supportive, which is a category of action possible.

I think creating the duplicator (I.e., ADKs role) sounds Supportive, but Joseph used the item.

I'm not sure using the item would even count as taking an action anyway, and the mod won't answer that question anyway.

Doubling a power isn't manipulative to me, anyway.  It's supportive, and that's the best option from the list of role types I have, if it was something that would have returned a result.

Like, a vig would return killing, right?  And a cop would return investigative (like faust did on N1).

[Witherweaver]

Maybe, I don't know.  Maybe Joseph actually does something about moving/modifying Attacks?  But I'm still sick on why make up Poisoner.  I don't quite buy the narrative of being caught with the massclaim and coming up with that.

And also, I just think Faust is town :/

[Witherweaver]

*stuck

[faust]

Okay. Now comes the mudfight part...

[faust]

This is a blatant lie or a scum slip.  Scum can 1000000% kill their partners in any normal mafia game, so why would this be different?  If they can't think game, it's because you asked and found out.

Sure. I asked and found out, then I posted the answer here, cause that's the clever kid I am.

- Attacks from one faction can affect members of the other faction. [color]

So I read this as "mafia can't self-attack". It's ambiguous though.

[faust]

And how incredibly fucking convenient that your result confirms Joseph's role?

How incredibly [-swearing] convenient that your result counters Joseph's role?

[faust]

And in your breakdown, you leave out (conveniently) the most likely scenario of all: 4) faust lied.

Yeah, well, I know this is not the case. How was I an IC to you earlier and now you're convinced I'm scum?