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[faust]

I mean, before you guys all claimed, who was it looking like we were going to lynch today. Me? e?
Then Ash claimed and the focus was on Joseph, and then your claim conflicts with Ash's.

What's the scum narrative for Ash to claim a fake result on Joseph when he knew that you were going to check Joseph's role as well? You had a townread on him before that.

I've explained that multiple times and honestly am too tired of this to do it again.

[Ichimaru Gin]

If so, how are ash and Joseph town together?

I don't know. Maybe Ash is your partner, or unknown partner. Maybe scum messed with Ash's role or did something to Joseph that made Ash get the result he did.

So you can't provide a scenario in which your vote against me makes sense? I mean, yeah, maybe scum messed with ash's role, but I don't think people lied about their roles. Do you? Who lies?

Whose roles are confirmable? It seems like you and Ash are the only people who could directly catch people faking their rolenames/abilities.

[faust]

If so, how are ash and Joseph town together?

I don't know. Maybe Ash is your partner, or unknown partner. Maybe scum messed with Ash's role or did something to Joseph that made Ash get the result he did.

So you can't provide a scenario in which your vote against me makes sense? I mean, yeah, maybe scum messed with ash's role, but I don't think people lied about their roles. Do you? Who lies?

Whose roles are confirmable? It seems like you and Ash are the only people who could directly catch people faking their rolenames/abilities.

That's not what I asked. If you believe ash&Joseph are town, then you have to believe someone is lying about their role. Who is it?

[faust]

Sorry, but it looks to me as though your read on me influences how you evaluate the game, when it should clearly be the other way round.

[Ichimaru Gin]

When did I say both Ash and Joseph have to be town? I mean, I guess if Joseph was town though, why wouldn't scum!faust just agree with Ash's result and then we'd mislynch Joseph? If your were the one lying about your role and had really manipulated the results, that seems kind of pointless to argue against the fake result you created.

PPE: That is partially true. If you're town though, the way you've tunneled me certainly hasn't endeared me to you--and has not helped your credibility with me. Seeing you decry me as scum the entire game when I know otherwise doesn't make me trust your reads very much. I also feel you've been very underhanded in some of your argumentation and twist people's words.

[Ichimaru Gin]

* you to me

[faust]

When did I say both Ash and Joseph have to be town? I mean, I guess if Joseph was town though, why wouldn't scum!faust just agree with Ash's result and then we'd mislynch Joseph? If your were the one lying about your role and had really manipulated the results, that seems kind of pointless to argue against the fake result you created.

PPE: That is partially true. If you're town though, the way you've tunneled me certainly hasn't endeared me to you--and has not helped your credibility with me. Seeing you decry me as scum the entire game when I know otherwise doesn't make me trust your reads very much. I also feel you've been very underhanded in some of your argumentation and twist people's words.

ash confirmed that my role is investigative. My results were confirmed last day. I have the role I claim I have.

Can you provide examples of me twisting people's words? That's not what I want to do.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Like the quote about how all Ash and I do is knock Joseph. That's one example.

Mm. Right, I guess I had forgotten that. I'm not convinced that an Ash/faust scumteam is impossible. I guess we really do have to lynch out of Ash/faust/Joseph today though. WW pushing the silver lynch and e pushing, was it me? feels very wrong.

[Ichimaru Gin]

I mean. I feel like if I believe you here, and then we lynch Ash, and I was right and he was town and then you win the game as scum, you'll gloat and people won't remember how I felt for the entire other part of the game.

[faust]

Like the quote about how all Ash and I do is knock Joseph. That's one example.

Mm. Right, I guess I had forgotten that. I'm not convinced that an Ash/faust scumteam is impossible. I guess we really do have to lynch out of Ash/faust/Joseph today though. WW pushing the silver lynch and e pushing, was it me? feels very wrong.

Nah, it makes sense to me that you wouldn't dismiss a scenario where ash and me are both scum. That is totally possible from an outside perspective. But in that case we can still lynch ash first. I only want to convince you that me scum/ash town is not possible.

[faust]

I mean. I feel like if I believe you here, and then we lynch Ash, and I was right and he was town and then you win the game as scum, you'll gloat and people won't remember how I felt for the entire other part of the game.

Man. Do I appear that mean to you? If so, I'm really sorry 

[Ichimaru Gin]

I mean. I feel like if I believe you here, and then we lynch Ash, and I was right and he was town and then you win the game as scum, you'll gloat and people won't remember how I felt for the entire other part of the game.

Man. Do I appear that mean to you? If so, I'm really sorry 

Eh. I'd hope that I'd get some recognition from you for suspecting you the whole game, (and I don't think you'd be "mean" like that) but I think WW could likely be your partner in that scenario. And he seemed so ticked about how confident I was with my read on you and then chalked it up to dumb luck or something just because I tend to OMGUS people and therefore deserve no credit if I was right about you. That post of his really annoyed me. Like what the heck, the end kind of justifies the means--I think about my reads, I don't just vote people randomly. It felt like a very passive aggressive way of trying to undermine my read on you like "you know even if you're right, you won't get any credit for it anyway".

The simpler scenario here is that Ash is lying, I think. But in that case, who are the two other scum? Is WW scum? I still don't think e is particular townie either.

[faust]

The simpler scenario here is that Ash is lying, I think. But in that case, who are the two other scum? Is WW scum? I still don't think e is particular townie either.

Yes, there's WW, silver, e. There's also you, even though I'm starting to feel better about you, I can't dismiss this. chairs is a possibility - I guess we'll find out tomorrow. Awaclus is remarkably quiet, but I feel like he's town, even though I don't like the way he plays. If e is still alive tomorrow, I definitely want to look at him more closely.

Overall, it's going to take a lot of rereading and analyzing tomorrow. I think that's where we win or lose.

[Witherweaver]

The ends don't justify the means. 

Anyway, your hold up on Ash being scum is because you can't figure out the rest of the teams?  That doesn't make sense.  My guesses would be from e, Silver, you.

[Witherweaver]

Oh, Chairs is in this game.  He's possible, too.  I have no read there at all.

[faust]

I mean, all through this, I'm looking at all the posts from a "what would ash's partner do?" perspective. Joining the wagon early like you did is unlikely. Heavy white knighting (WW) is possible. Bringing the wagon on me back on track when it starts to look bad for ash (silver) can also be a scumpartner move.

PPE: 2

[Witherweaver]

If e is still alive tomorrow, Faust, what's your theory?  That scum read him and used an attack to save him?

[faust]

If e is still alive tomorrow, Faust, what's your theory?  That scum read him and used an attack to save him?

Well, if he's scum with his role, he might just be able to attack himself. e should die from protecting people or from poison. If he doesn't do both, then that's weird.

[Witherweaver]

I mean, all through this, I'm looking at all the posts from a "what would ash's partner do?" perspective. Joining the wagon early like you did is unlikely. Heavy white knighting (WW) is possible. Bringing the wagon on me back on track when it starts to look bad for ash (silver) can also be a scumpartner move.

PPE: 2

Silver looks far the guiltiest here.  His late and overexpanded jump to your wagon looks suspicious.

Ichi and Ash interaction (lack thereof, really) looks like partner except that Ash was the one to point out to Ichi that the game isn't multiball.  Hard to imagine that doesn't come up in QT.

[Witherweaver]

If e is still alive tomorrow, Faust, what's your theory?  That scum read him and used an attack to save him?

Well, if he's scum with his role, he might just be able to attack himself. e should die from protecting people or from poison. If he doesn't do both, then that's weird.

I thought you said attacking self wasn't possible.

[faust]

The ends don't justify the means. 

Anyway, your hold up on Ash being scum is because you can't figure out the rest of the teams?  That doesn't make sense.  My guesses would be from e, Silver, you.

I want the information that ash is scum publicly available before we move forward. I also want to see what becomes of the poisoned people.

[faust]

If e is still alive tomorrow, Faust, what's your theory?  That scum read him and used an attack to save him?

Well, if he's scum with his role, he might just be able to attack himself. e should die from protecting people or from poison. If he doesn't do both, then that's weird.

I thought you said attacking self wasn't possible.

Well, I have no idea what happens if e attacks someone and redirects the attack to himself.

[faust]

Hey, here's a thought:

Can a member of one scum faction attack a member of the same scum faction?

[Witherweaver]

The ends don't justify the means. 

Anyway, your hold up on Ash being scum is because you can't figure out the rest of the teams?  That doesn't make sense.  My guesses would be from e, Silver, you.

I want the information that ash is scum publicly available before we move forward. I also want to see what becomes of the poisoned people.

That was to Ichi. I didn't include the quote.  (on phone). It was "Ash scum is simplest, but then who are the rest?". I found it questionable.

[Witherweaver]

Hey, here's a thought:

Can a member of one scum faction attack a member of the same scum faction?

I think they all count as one faction.  How about:

If I am scum, can I Attack myself?  Can I Attack my QT-partner?