Hm.. I wasn't considering scum Faust and Joseph town. I'm considering Faust-Joseph partner and if it makes sense. This is for purposes of answering the question: "Did they come up with those whole plan Night 0?"
I don't think they came up with a plan on Night 0, or if they did, it wasn't what actually happened.
I've been arguing (as you've all seen) that Joseph is scum for awhile, and by extension, that faust is scummy and probably a partner. With results revealed today, that was solidified to 100% (from my perspective, since I know my alignment). Obviously, town!faust (or scum!faust wanting to seem town) will say I'm scum 100% from his perspective. That's the same for the theoretical scum!ash.
Now, could one be scum without the other? Sure. Is there a way both could be town? Less possible. But the evidence/occam's razor is so far against that, I just don't believe it. To be thorough:
1) Results/targeting manipulation. This is the big unknown, right? Like, what if another player (really, any other player) is lying about their role and targeted any one of us in a way that messed with results? We've got:
faust confirming Joseph's role name claim based on a Rolecop action
ashersky saying Joseph took a manipulative action
I mean, that's the argument, right? Joseph claims to have taken a double killing action, plus used an item, which I believe does not account for my result. Ergo, I think Joseph is lying. I'm adding that on to the rest of the case (odd claim, knife/bleeding thing, saying he tried to killed XP who was important to the plan, changing his claim when XP died too fast, etc.) to get to be absolutely convinced there. Faust's defense of Joseph, and then his conveniently timed claim to save Joseph make him the partner.
I want to point out, because I think faust obfuscated this point: faust's result says nothing about my result. It only confirms Joseph's claimed role name, which I've stated he could have already known from being partners. Faust asked everyone to list their names (he could have been planning to say someone was lying about their role to get a mislynch, for all we know, but had to try to save Joseph instead.)
So manipulation by an outside party could result in me (or others) being wrong. So I guess that's a worry for some?
I will say that faust made one good point -- I should want to lynch Joseph before faust regardless. I was pretty upset overall, so I did let emotion override logic there, but we can't all be Spock. The evidence is much, much firmer against Joseph.
The reasons for lynching faust include activating Ichi's power (if you think Ichi might be town and/or telling the truth about his power) and that he is the much more dangerous scum player.
The reason for lynching Joseph include the evidence being much stronger against him (relative to faust -- fore example, if Joseph is lynch and flips with the role name faust confirmed, he didn't actually lie).
Awaclus made good points on the preferablility of mislynches based on power and risk already. I'd say the value of roles (if real) to town, not taking usage and reads into consideration, is Vig > Rolecop; but taking usage and reads up to now into consideration, Joseph is more dangerous than useful.
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Topic: RMM23: Deus Ex Machina (Town Wins!) (Read 192552 times)