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[2.71828.....]

If I were scum with chairs, I think that we would kill joseph tonight

[2.71828.....]

The problem with this plan is that it is really independent of who my partner is.  As scum, I want to kill Joseph tonight.  Period.

[faust]

So you guys were busy. I'll be catching up, commenting stuff as I go along.

[faust]

faust. I feel like you're being purposefully dishonest in voting me and your analysis of my role.

You already seemingly acknowledged that you understood that the # of players I pick after my original target is determined the same was as SS--yet you omit that from your analysis post. I never used the word Doctor to describe my role--yet you act as if I did. My role protects my target from all attacks if one of the other people I choose gets lynched. You rate numerous, numerous other people as having roles with higher scum utility and lower town utility. I just don't get it.

I don't really buy that you aren't paying attention. I think you're doing this on purpose and it makes me want to vote: faust. I can make my lynch choices public the following day so it can be guaranteed that my target gets protected during the night--assuming that at least one of my choices is likable to most people. So it is not that difficult to ensure that my role doesn't "backfire".

I don't like how e gives you town credit for claiming last and pretending that you had a reason for it when your supposed role does not warrant that at all. You know you don't have any good reason to vote me--and it seems you purposefully refrained from stating any, so I can only conclude that you're either scum or doing this to get a reaction out of me (maybe both).

Well, isn't this a typical Ichi? Why would scum!me be "purposefully dishonest"? I mean, scum!me would probably try to genuinely scumhunt here. I voted for you because your role seemed to be meh for town, but for scum it's a cool role that requires high-level play to get the most use out of it, and I know that's a thing Archetype likes, so it seemed more likely to me that he would give this role to scum. Also, reactions, which we now obviously got.

[faust]

I like vote: faust more. I also feel like faust made my role sound scummier than it actually is (ignoring the possibility that scum might have investigative powers), and Ichi's points are good too.

Yeah, scum might have investigate roles... is it worth it to target random people with your role hoping for that though? I think not. Once you steal a result, you'd have to out the investigative role anyway to make any use of it, since otherwise you wouldn't know who the result is on (is that even a correct sentence?), right? I doubt it's worth it.

[faust]

Ichi's whole post feels like total OMGUS to me, and seems like scum worried about the lynch pool getting too narrow. I agree with a lot of faust's analysis, though I don't think we should be lynching people based solely on how scummy their role is. People's reactions, though, are telling.

Well this is just ludicrous. Yes it's OMGUS to a degree--but faust's behavior has been legitimately troubling and scummy. Why should I be bullied out of voting for him just because he voted me first? Scared about the lynch pool getting too narrow? Where did you get that from? If anything, it looks to me like faust did some "analysis" and laid down some ground rules and then just completely ignored them. Then you jumped my wagon because you thought you could get away with it and are now scrambling to invent reasons why you voted me.

I think you're scum btw.

PPE: 1

Well, if you have that opinion, might I again ask why I would do that as scum?

[faust]

I agree completely with ichi. Faust's analysis looked insincere and manipulative. I don't know if that reflects well on Awalcus though.

vote: Faust

Can you elaborate?

[faust]

that is problematic. we don't have any sort of watcher or doctor - the closest thing is the blackmailing power, which is delayed. I don't see any way to protect our strong PR's

e has a Bodyguard-like power if I understand correctly.

[faust]

Players with low town utility, but high scum utility should be lynched or at least be given orders for what to do each night.

I'll be working on a plan for tonight. Vote: Ichi for now.

So what's your motivation/reasoning for voting someone in the middle of the town/scum utility spectrum?

See earlier response. Also, I feel that roles that would be "too good" for scum are also unlikely to be scum. The poison kill fits this very much, but to a smaller degree also Xerxes' role.

[faust]

I strongly disagree with your read on faust, which is the whole point here. You reacted to faust's analysis, not with "I disagree with some of that, here's how my role can be used to benefit town", but with "this analysis sucks, faust is obvscum". It looks a lot to me like perhaps faust was hitting a little too close to home with what he was saying, and you felt you had to react strongly against it.

ADK definitely has a point here.

[faust]

You'll have to wait for a proper response util tomorrow I fear. I tentatively think Ichi is scummy here, and honestly have a hard time understanding why people would vote for one of our only investigative roles at all on D1.

are you talking about yourself?

I missed your role when I said we don't have a watcher or doctor. You're sort of a weak watcher.

Yes.

[faust]

I'm not sure we can go with scummy/not scummy based on claims.

We could possibly try to figure out which claims feel the fakest, I guess.

On faust's mega-post -- I didn't have issue with it as an exercise, although I'd differ on some ratings.  But that's to be expected -- they are opinions.  I'm surprised by some of the vitriolic responses, though.

I think "lynching the strongest powers for scum" idea is exactly what Arch was trying to fight by having his odd qualifier about how roles were assigned.  Like, you can't give a killing role to scum, since then they get two kills.  So you'd think that the Poisoner is town, except you don't even know if that's really his role.

Here's a fun theory: scum claims Poisoner, then he says he can prove it.  Says he targeted Player A.  Imagine he's actually scum just lying.  Now, the other half of the scum team can target that guy to kill him (maybe), and it looks like it's true.  I mean, he couldn't coordinate that, unless he had plans on how to make it obvious to the other scum team.  Or maybe I just thwarted his plan.

But the point is, we can do this for most of the controversial roles.

Well - it's very dangerous for scum to fakeclaim here. I don't think we should just go by roles to decide who to lynch, but hey, this is D1, we don't have much else to go on, and that's not the worst thing. At least we can keep roles that are potentially really good for town alive. Like I don't have a town read on you, but I really don't want to lynch you. Your results, whether fake or not, will be useful. And if you're scum, the other scum party might actually attack you because they think you're dangerous.

One thing I don't get is how all of you agreed to massclaim - and now you're not willing to do anything about it. Like, why do the massclaim then in the first place?

[faust]

I'm curious why everyone seems to have a town read on silver. What's up with that?

Him pointing out how we can utilize Xerxes' role definitely helped.

[faust]

I'm fairly confident Ash is town now, because I think it would be odd to have that line of thought as scum.

Also, lynching me is bad and you should feel bad.

I don't buy that for one second. Ash explicitly stated he had that thought process pregame.

[faust]

Let's see...

If I was partners with ashersky (quite the ridiculous pairing), I'd probably atttack e tonight, in order to make it look as though he protected one of us.

[faust]

(I wouldn't kill Joseph in that case because, man, ash and me are generally considered important, with important roles, and I'd doubt that we would be poisoned.)

[faust]

Good thing: We can't lose this game anyway. Once it looks like we're going to lose, Arch will just step forward and modkill all the remaining mafia.

[Awaclus]

If I was partners with XP, I would kill silverspawn.

[faust]

Plan time. Here's what I think should happen tonight.

2.7 - Henchman
Our protective role. Should target among me/ash/Joseph. Potentially Xerxes. No, not Xerxes, since chairs needs to target him.

A Drowned Kernel - Inventor
This can be used for either double protection (target e), double investigation (target ash or me) or double kill (target Joseph). Double kill might be too risky. Double investigation is probably best.

ashersky - Blind Follower
Well, ash should just target whoever he finds scummiest. (or not, but you know... ash know how to play this role I think)

Hydrad - Detective
This role is good in scum hands, and does little for us. He should probably target e, that gives us the most information.

Awaclus - Pickpocket
Plan time. Awaclus needs to announce his target. Not one of the investigative roles.

XerxesPraelor - Therapist
Xerxes targets [Awaclus' target] and redirects to someone he chooses. Tomorrow, everyone claims whether or not they have been pickpocketed (they should learn this if I remember Awaclus' role correctly). We might catch scum.

Faust - Role Watcher
Basically, I check that everyone does as planned. I'll investigate somewhere.

Joseph2302 - Poisoner
I think he does the Poisoning? I mean it dangerous, but potentially really good.

silverspawn - Regulator
silver: Do you count as targeting every of the n players you choose? silver's role has the most potential to interfere with our plans if use by scum, so we might want to direct it. Roleblock Hydrad against some players sounds good.

Witherweaver - Governor
Strange role. Don't use it at all I guess?

chairs - Mailman
Should send a message to Xerxes containing his target for the following night. Should contain at least 3 names, so that he can move down the list if people die.

Ichimaru Gin - Blackmailer
Well, how to use this? Scum!Ichi can just tell us names different from the ones he actually chose for lynching if he wants it to fail. Meh. Can't we just lynch Ichi?

[Joseph2302]

I was intending to poison tonight.

[Witherweaver]

I'm fairly confident Ash is town now, because I think it would be odd to have that line of thought as scum.

Also, lynching me is bad and you should feel bad.

I don't buy that for one second. Ash explicitly stated he had that thought process pregame.

That's fair I guess. 

[Witherweaver]

Players with low town utility, but high scum utility should be lynched or at least be given orders for what to do each night.

I'll be working on a plan for tonight. Vote: Ichi for now.

So what's your motivation/reasoning for voting someone in the middle of the town/scum utility spectrum?

See earlier response. Also, I feel that roles that would be "too good" for scum are also unlikely to be scum. The poison kill fits this very much, but to a smaller degree also Xerxes' role.

Alright.  My thought was that (despite Arch's setup statement), scum isn't going to want to claim a role that sounds scummy.  So they may modify/withhold role information that makes them sound very scummy.  (They'd probably still claim the same name.)  On the other hand, they're not going to want to go all-out town utility, as that probably leaves them more open to get caught in a lie.  Hence, they'd be more in the middle, and their claim may sound like they fudged something. 

[chairs]

I think I've already mentioned this, but if I were scum with anybody except XP, I'm pretty sure I'd kill XP tonight.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Faust is tunneling me.

[Ichimaru Gin]

You've obviously been setting me up for a mislynch for a while now. As long as you can get away with it, it doesn't matter if that's what you "really" believe or not.
I'm back to vote: faust. And you're saying scum!faust would genuinely scumhunt here. What does that mean? You'd actively try to identify and lynch the unknown component of your team?--because that makes no sense at all.

Please look back at faust's posts. He's handpicking information.
You got my reactions, yet you didn't actually comment on them beyond  being like WW and putting me into a category. Just because I have an emotional element to my responses doesn't mean you can just ignore my points.

And notice how faust just completely ignores e's case on WW. This is reminding me of Teproc and WW in Musical Mafia. One of them tunnels me and I let it slide, while WW is super hedgy and then switches to my wagon at the last minute. Well this time, there really is no substance to your case, beyond you not following your own rules and voting me 2/5 town power 3/5 scum power by your estimation. Instead of someone like WW whom you rated as a 1/5 town power 5/5 scum power--and that's only one example.

You are being dishonest because you said we should vote by your numbers, but your vote on me makes no sense given your estimation for each role's relative town/scum power. That's verifiably true.