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[Ichimaru Gin]

You'll have to wait for a proper response util tomorrow I fear. I tentatively think Ichi is scummy here, and honestly have a hard time understanding why people would vote for one of our only investigative roles at all on D1.

Ok. Tentatively scummy. That's ok, but kind of hedgy especially with your vote.

Oh. Well I honestly have a hard time understanding why people are voting like our only real protective role on D1.

PPE: silver is one of my top townreads. Another good reason for where my vote is.

[Ichimaru Gin]

If by "unfairly attack you" you mean "keep my vote on you and continue to reiterate my reasons for doing so", then yes. This is mafia, all reads are based at least a little on speculation. I don't think I've been manipulative or unfair here at all.

No I meant more like "you're reads suck because they aren't identical to mine, here's some WIFOM for why you're scum."

[ashersky]

It's important for people to remember we have two scumteams here. I think faust is scum--and ADK not responding with any explanation for his vote on me feels bad also. It's also totally possible that some of the people jumping on the faust wagon are opportunistic scum from the opposite team though.

I just wanted to put this out here since I can feel myself having to break away from the one-team scumhunting logic that I'm used to.

This sets off scum alarms.

Um why? My thought process was something like "faust is super scummy and now Awaclus is voting him so that makes me feel townier about Awaclus." And then SS posted and I remembered that my logic for Awaclus didn't really work because of the multiball.

Please don't tell me this is just because I read the setup.

None of you read the setup, because this is NOT multiball.

Like, we had this discussion in the thread before the game started.

The mindset of scumhunting in a multiball game is "hey, there's two bad guy teams out there trying to win, including killing off each others, so we can't really give as much town cred to people who catch scum because they might just be on the other bad guy team."

This is ONE bad guy team SPLIT into two QTs.  That's it.  It isn't like one set of scum is trying to kill off the other set.  That's the OPPOSITE of what they want.  Like, why would you want to purposefully kill half of your own team?

I think anyone trying to push the multiball mindset on this game is scummy because it is purposefully misleading.  It is trying to get us thinking about scum in the wrong way, which will lead us down incorrect lines of reasoning.

[ashersky]

If anything, I would assume (within reason) that scum will attempt to NOT lynch scum.  They'll hedge a bit more, be more likely to let scummy behavior slide, etc.

Now, depends on the scum player -- some are big bussers, so they won't be fearful anyway.  But generally speaking, I think that's going to be the case.  I mean, if we can lynch one half of the scum team, they have to kill people two nights before they die, which is basically crippling.

[Ichimaru Gin]

It says they're separate factions...yet they share a wincon? I'm calling total BS on you trying to paint me as scum for misunderstanding that though.

[silverspawn]

So, about our lynch today:

2.7
A Drowned Kernel
ashersky (high town utility)
XerxesPraelor (required for the cop plan)
Hydrad
Awaclus
faust (high town utility)
Joseph2302 (high town utility)
silverspawn
Witherweaver
chairs (required for the cop plan)
Ichimaru Gin

So, based on the claims, I think our pool should be

2,7, ADK, Hydrad, Awaclus, WW, IG

and me, I guess.

[silverspawn]

None of you read the setup, because this is NOT multiball.

hey, I did read the setup

[Ichimaru Gin]

I'd think scum is much more likely to not correct my misunderstanding and just let people believe that. So, townread on Ash I guess?

Also. Obviously I'm guilty of this here too for not reading the setup closely enough. But seriously, people should read the setup. I couldn't believe how little town paid attention to it in flavorless--it was crazy.

[silverspawn]

Needless to say I largely agree with faust's ratings, except on XP which I would give at least a 4

[silverspawn]

well, I guess we don't necessarily need chairs for the cop plan, so he could be included too.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Damn, that does look like a town slip from Ichi, I totally missed that. He might have been under that impression even as scum, but for now vote: silverspawn

[Ichimaru Gin]

Also, forgot to mention. My role can be completely confirmed by whomever I choose as my protection target. They won't be given my name, but they will be told how my ability works.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Oh. Well I honestly have a hard time understanding why people are voting like our only real protective role on D1.

Town Doctor is at L-2

Man, I can't just let this go by without pointing it out, though.

PPE: I don't think anyone doubts that you have your ability.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Darn it. My OMGUS senses are telling me to unvote you now.

[A Drowned Kernel]

See, and that's another thing you've done as scum, called me scummy when I was voting for you and then backed off after I did. Gah.

[Awaclus]

I like vote: faust more. I also feel like faust made my role sound scummier than it actually is (ignoring the possibility that scum might have investigative powers), and Ichi's points are good too.

no... this feels dishonest

vote: Awaclus

It's not.

of course scum!you would claim that it's not, making it a rather redundant statement, not unlike this one

Town!me would also claim that it's not (and actually did, too). And it would be a lie from both scum!me and town!me. I'm not very honest as either alignment, tbh, as has been apparent in some recent games where I was town, so that's not really the best kind of argument to use against me. Instead, does the post feel like it was written from the perspective I would have as scum? I'm pretty sure it shouldn't, because it's not.

This feels bad to me. I don't like people who are overly aware of their own meta, especially pointing it out.

I've only pointed out my own meta before as town. You can feel free to not like me, but it doesn't change the fact that I'm town.

[ashersky]

I don't think I have played in a multi-ball game since Toy Story, which was my first game here. 

And

- The members of one faction will be unknown to the other. Each will flip as Mafia-aligned, be given their own factional QT, and have their own factional half-kill done by "Attacking" another player.
- Just like a normal night kill, each night, in addition to whatever other roles a Mafia member possesses, one member of each faction may target a player to “Attack”. When a player has been attacked once by each faction, they will die.
- Players will not be notified when they've been attacked and the attack status rolls over from night to night.
- Attacks from one faction can affect members of the other faction, but a Mafia member is immune to their specific faction's attack.
- When one Mafia faction has been eliminated, someone dies by being attacked twice by one faction instead of once by each faction.

So faction A has a qt together and Faction B has a qt together.  Or is it Member 1 of Faction A has a qt with Member 1 of Faction B and then Member 2 of either faction cannot communicate with their partner?  And every single member of the mafia attacks, but it takes 2 attacks to kill a person?

I don't think it's actually multi-ball -- my understanding is that mafia is mafia, just split into two.

I mean, they can't kill each other unless they shoot themselves.  So I think mafia wins together, they just are split into two teams that can't talk to each other.

This is correct.

Reply #9 in this thread.  Before the game started, before it was full, before alignments were assigned.  This was clarified, by the mod, in the game thread.

[Ichimaru Gin]

See, and that's another thing you've done as scum, called me scummy when I was voting for you and then backed off after I did. Gah.

I don't recall that. Don't worry though. I haven't backed off yet.

[silverspawn]

I'm not giving Ichi town points for his "slip". It's a pretty obvious one to fabricate here as scum. But I don't think he's scummy in the first place.

[silverspawn]

I do, however, give ADK scum points for giving the slip so much weight. As scum, I found that I have a strong tendency to believe "slips" in order not to appear scumy.

[Witherweaver]

I don't think I have played in a multi-ball game since Toy Story, which was my first game here. 

And

- The members of one faction will be unknown to the other. Each will flip as Mafia-aligned, be given their own factional QT, and have their own factional half-kill done by "Attacking" another player.
- Just like a normal night kill, each night, in addition to whatever other roles a Mafia member possesses, one member of each faction may target a player to “Attack”. When a player has been attacked once by each faction, they will die.
- Players will not be notified when they've been attacked and the attack status rolls over from night to night.
- Attacks from one faction can affect members of the other faction, but a Mafia member is immune to their specific faction's attack.
- When one Mafia faction has been eliminated, someone dies by being attacked twice by one faction instead of once by each faction.

So faction A has a qt together and Faction B has a qt together.  Or is it Member 1 of Faction A has a qt with Member 1 of Faction B and then Member 2 of either faction cannot communicate with their partner?  And every single member of the mafia attacks, but it takes 2 attacks to kill a person?

I don't think it's actually multi-ball -- my understanding is that mafia is mafia, just split into two.

I mean, they can't kill each other unless they shoot themselves.  So I think mafia wins together, they just are split into two teams that can't talk to each other.

This is correct.

Reply #9 in this thread.  Before the game started, before it was full, before alignments were assigned.  This was clarified, by the mod, in the game thread.

Man, if reading the setup is scummy, then reading the pregame mod discussions is, like, ultimate scum tell.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I do, however, give ADK scum points for giving the slip so much weight. As scum, I found that I have a strong tendency to believe "slips" in order not to appear scumy.

I'm saying it seems sincere to me. I'm not saying he couldn't have made that slip as scum. It just means we have to assume that his partner made that mistake as well, which seems a little more unlikely.

[ashersky]

I'm not sure we can go with scummy/not scummy based on claims.

We could possibly try to figure out which claims feel the fakest, I guess.

On faust's mega-post -- I didn't have issue with it as an exercise, although I'd differ on some ratings.  But that's to be expected -- they are opinions.  I'm surprised by some of the vitriolic responses, though.

I think "lynching the strongest powers for scum" idea is exactly what Arch was trying to fight by having his odd qualifier about how roles were assigned.  Like, you can't give a killing role to scum, since then they get two kills.  So you'd think that the Poisoner is town, except you don't even know if that's really his role.

Here's a fun theory: scum claims Poisoner, then he says he can prove it.  Says he targeted Player A.  Imagine he's actually scum just lying.  Now, the other half of the scum team can target that guy to kill him (maybe), and it looks like it's true.  I mean, he couldn't coordinate that, unless he had plans on how to make it obvious to the other scum team.  Or maybe I just thwarted his plan.

But the point is, we can do this for most of the controversial roles.

[A Drowned Kernel]

So we lynch based on reads. Have any you'd care to share?

[silverspawn]

I do, however, give ADK scum points for giving the slip so much weight. As scum, I found that I have a strong tendency to believe "slips" in order not to appear scumy.

I'm saying it seems sincere to me. I'm not saying he couldn't have made that slip as scum. It just means we have to assume that his partner made that mistake as well, which seems a little more unlikely.

why does his partner have to have made a mistake in order for him to fake a townslip?