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[Witherweaver]

If e is still alive tomorrow, Faust, what's your theory?  That scum read him and used an attack to save him?

Well, if he's scum with his role, he might just be able to attack himself. e should die from protecting people or from poison. If he doesn't do both, then that's weird.

I thought you said attacking self wasn't possible.

Well, I have no idea what happens if e attacks someone and redirects the attack to himself.

Oh, hey, I didn't think about that.

[Witherweaver]

The ends don't justify the means. 

Anyway, your hold up on Ash being scum is because you can't figure out the rest of the teams?  That doesn't make sense.  My guesses would be from e, Silver, you.

I want the information that ash is scum publicly available before we move forward. I also want to see what becomes of the poisoned people.

Also, are you certain of this?  If e were to flip scum with some kind of redirecting, that would provide an explanation of everything.

[Witherweaver]

The ends don't justify the means. 

Anyway, your hold up on Ash being scum is because you can't figure out the rest of the teams?  That doesn't make sense.  My guesses would be from e, Silver, you.

I want the information that ash is scum publicly available before we move forward. I also want to see what becomes of the poisoned people.

Also, are you certain of this?  If e were to flip scum with some kind of redirecting, that would provide an explanation of everything.

[Ichimaru Gin]

The ends don't justify the means. 

No, I can't hear you!
But seriously, other people agree with me and agreed with me then. Speaking of which, silver is still in this game right? Yeah, he hasn't posted in 2 days though.

[Ichimaru Gin]

faust being scum isn't a foregone conclusion of mine by any means either

[Archetype]

Vote Count 1.2

ashersky (2): faust, Awaclus
faust (3): ashersky, Ichimaru Gin, silverspawn
silverspawn (1):Witherweaver

Not Voting (3): Joseph, chairs, 2.7

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends Tuesday, April 7th at 10:30 AM.

If I am scum, can I Attack myself?  Can I Attack my QT-partner?

I don't normally condone self-harm, but sure.

[Witherweaver]

Huh, well, that sucks. 

[silverspawn]

What's the whole thing good for if he decides to unvote right after? You can't argue that he wanted t really bus me, he's just confused here. Inconsistency is a town tell, after all.

either for towncred, or he wasn't planing to unvote.

Really?! I mean, put yourself in my shoes. Ash has a result on one of my top townreads which I know is wrong. What do you expect me to do, say "oh well, but he's so townie, maybe Arch just sent him the wrong result?" Any townread I had on ash is completely nullified by this.

Even if the result is fake, why does ash have to be scum? Something could have messed with his result, or he could just be lying town. Neither of that seems unlikely enough to justify your behavior. And you usually have zero OMGUS in the way you play.

I already commented on this, but hey, here's me doing it again. I don't think the quitting was fake. Either he was genuinely frustrated (I hope not) or he thought replacing out would make his replacement seem super townie (true). I don't approve of that kind of play, but I know ash does.

I don't believe that until I see it. Are you basing this on the fact that he said something about gaining cards on purpose in soccer?

I don't think that's fair. It was like 3 hours before deadline, you can hardly call that a quickhammer.

well, that's true.

So I'm a good player, and ash isn't? Okay, so now we get to the point that bugs me the most. Yes, I'm a good player. So why? WHY do I do this? Just anwer me and TELL ME what's the scum narrative. I want to get me and my partner lynched? Because that sounds like a great plan. There is no scum narrative here, none. This is the one crucial question you need to answer if you really think my lynch is the best, and so far everyone has failed to do so.

The narrative is to keep Joseph alive - which looks (or at least looked) like it was going to work for quite a while. Yes, you tie yourself together, but that's completely fine for you, especially with Joseph killing two towns today.

There could also easily be a mechanical reason for why it's important to keep Joseph alive for just one more day. Like, mabye if he dies his targets survive. That sounds like a cool scum mechanic. Weakens the poison. Or, like, anything else. It's a closed setup.

Only he didn't really link it, did he? He accepted to be the representative even with this unresolved. It was just a rhethorical thing, never meaning anything.

Well, of course he accepted it. The idea to link them is silly. But that doesn't stop me from believing that he was serious.

[silverspawn]

Silver looks far the guiltiest here.  His late and overexpanded jump to your wagon looks suspicious.

it's not overexplained. Choosing between either side here is a big deal. Would you prefer it if I just voted without explaining anything?

[Awaclus]

I think I know who I want to vote for, but want to hear more from other people before I vote.  Especially silverspawn and awaclus and chairs.

What would you like to hear?

Who is scum.  Specifically between Ash, faust, and Joseph.  Because unless scum did an incredible job diverting actions, at least one of them is scum.

I think it's Ash.

[Joseph2302]

Vote: ash, this is L-2.
No evidence that someone messed with my role yesterday, hence ash must be scum.

[silverspawn]

Vote: ash, this is L-2.
No evidence that someone messed with my role yesterday, hence ash must be scum.

well, we can't expect you to vote for your partner

[Joseph2302]

Vote: ash, this is L-2.
No evidence that someone messed with my role yesterday, hence ash must be scum.

well, we can't expect you to vote for your partner

Technically faust probably is a partner of mine, as I'm town, and faust probably is (if ash is scum).

[ashersky]

Can someone not named Faust explain the town narrative for Joseph this game?  Here the things I need put into perspective:

1.  He lied multiple times about his role, changing it as needed whenever he got caught out.
2.  He admitted to trying (and succeeding) to kill the single player most important to our N1 plan to catch scum.
3.  He has one, and only one, player "confirming his role" and that one player is in a position to say anything he wants without fear of anything.

[ashersky]

And that #3 is the rub.

You have to think I barreled headlong into a situation where lying was 100% sure to be caught on purpose, whereas Faust ensured he was in a position to manipulate everyone and everything from a position of complete safety.

Why did I throw game if I'm scum?  Because Arch couldn't find a sub?

[ashersky]

And lastly, that Faust has been painting a picture of me as a cheating bastard is completely unfair and dirty, and has nothing to do with a game of mafia.  I would have, as a mod, warned him that he's breaking the civility pledge.

Why is it a personal attack?  It's well established on f.ds that threatening the quit/sub out is not fair play, no matter how you feel about it.  To say I'd purposefully do it anyway is to say ashersky the person, not ashersky the mafia games player, is so disrespectful to his fellow players and mods and friends that he'd do it anyway.

That is hurtful.  If you think I'm a lying bastard with no feelings, maybe that my fault.  But hopefully you can see why I don't want to play with you anymore.

I'm doing my best to just understand that you are scum and don't really mean it, and I need to just forgive and forget.  But it's hard sometimes.

[2.71828.....]

gah.

I hate when games morph into impassioned debates about players and civility and all that.  I know, it happens.  I know, impassioned debates are good and all that when it comes to playing the game.  That doesn't mean I have to like them.  I get really uncomfortable voting for people when it comes down to things like this because I don't want to offend anyone and so I just want to hide under a rock.

Regardless.  Please.  From this point on, no one make any personal accusations against anyone.  I will vote for you.  IC, whatever.  I just can't stand it.  I won't hold anything you have said that tinged close to that (or actually was that) against you.  But from this point forward, for this game, I will.

That being said, I can't just hide under a rock and let this all blow over.  Because it is still my job to find scum.  Because I still want to win the game.  Thankfully, we are in a community where people understand that.  And while I may be totally wrong, I have thought through all of the issues and all of the circumstances and really am not too confident.

Both Ash and faust were big D1 town reads.  Joseph I took for town just because I thought his role was too powerful for scum and then later on D2 I could not possibly conceive that scum would so bungle up their role and have absolutely no clue what they were talking about.  But now I am like, really?  Scum can just mess with things.

Here is my narrative.  faust and Ash are both town.  Joseph is scum.  Joseph is a manipulator.  He claimed poisoner because he can manipulate what people see as his role.  He wanted people to see poisoner.  I just don't have a good feeling about a faust or Ash lynch.  And Joseph is the role that everyone investigated.

vote: joseph

[2.71828.....]

I will say that faust made one good point -- I should want to lynch Joseph before faust regardless.  I was pretty upset overall, so I did let emotion override logic there, but we can't all be Spock.  The evidence is much, much firmer against Joseph.

Lets do the Joseph lynch

[2.71828.....]

Vote: ash, this is L-2.
No evidence that someone messed with my role yesterday, hence ash must be scum.

Exactly.  The perfect cover.  Because YOU messed with your role

[2.71828.....]

Wheee, game start time!  vote: Joseph2302 because he'll inevitably be scummy mc scummer pants.

yes.  Now go back to him.   RVS is truth.

[2.71828.....]

faust being scum isn't a foregone conclusion of mine by any means either

hedgy

Lets lynch Ichi tomorrow.

[2.71828.....]

I feel so much better now that I have made a decision.  It is really awesome.  And I think it is the right decision.  Ashersky and Faust both claim different results about joseph.

The only way to truly clear this up is to see what Joseph truly is.  So lets lynch him.  And I think he will flip scum

[2.71828.....]

Regardless.  Enough has been said today.  We need to vote.  We need to lynch.  Things have happened that have come close or crossed over the line of what should be appropriate in a mafia game.  This is a lot easier for me to say since I am not involved, but lets put it all behind us for the rest of this game.  What it means moving forward in the community and playing mafia is between the involved parties, but lets not let it affect this game. 

Don't argue here.

Don't have personal fights in my mafia game.  (well, its not mine, but I am owning it because I feel like it)

And lynch Joseph.

Because he is scum.

[Ichimaru Gin]

faust being scum isn't a foregone conclusion of mine by any means either

hedgy

Lets lynch Ichi tomorrow.

God. This is me countering WW's belief that I will think faust is scum no matter what because of my ego or something. Please tell me this is a joke, because considering how I've been accused of tunneling faust this entire game and overreacting to him, this is incredibly annoying.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Also, considering what I received from the mod, we should be lynching faust today if we're going to lynch one of the two.

I see pretty much no scum narrative for Ash's behavior.