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[Witherweaver]

Scum might have anti-town or obviously scum PR's and will have to make something up--which might incriminate them.

While I was going back and rereading Ichi I looked at this again.  I mean, this almost makes me think Ichi is Hydrad's partner.  (which we all know is impossible because of the preemptive defense post that Ichi gave us.) Knowing that Hydrad had a detective role (a TOWNIE role) this sets Hydrad up to be town if people had actually listened to what Ichi is saying here.

Sorry I don't follow.

[2.71828.....]

Scum might have anti-town or obviously scum PR's and will have to make something up--which might incriminate them.

While I was going back and rereading Ichi I looked at this again.  I mean, this almost makes me think Ichi is Hydrad's partner.  (which we all know is impossible because of the preemptive defense post that Ichi gave us.) Knowing that Hydrad had a detective role (a TOWNIE role) this sets Hydrad up to be town if people had actually listened to what Ichi is saying here.

Sorry I don't follow.

There seems to be a suggestion that scum will have scummy roles
Hydrad had a townie role
Hydrad is not scum

[2.71828.....]

Scum might have anti-town or obviously scum PR's and will have to make something up--which might incriminate them.

While I was going back and rereading Ichi I looked at this again.  I mean, this almost makes me think Ichi is Hydrad's partner.  (which we all know is impossible because of the preemptive defense post that Ichi gave us.) Knowing that Hydrad had a detective role (a TOWNIE role) this sets Hydrad up to be town if people had actually listened to what Ichi is saying here.

Sorry I don't follow.

There seems to be a suggestion that scum will have scummy roles
Hydrad had a townie role
Hydrad is not scum

This is more of a stretch though.

[Witherweaver]

Hydrad's role was not townie.  Hydrad lets subteam A know if subteam B attacked someone yet, so that subteam A can finish the kill.  That's good.

Hydrad's role has town utility, though.. as town it lets you verify that someone is less likely to be scum.

All our roles work as both town and scum...

[Witherweaver]

Except maybe Joseph's... that itself is suspicious.

[ashersky]

Except maybe Joseph's... that itself is suspicious.

I had this thought on D1 while reading, don't know if I posted it.

The scum kills are like poison kills.  Well, more like single-target arson kills.  But anyway, they are delayed kills which require a trigger (the other half of the scum team also targeting) for them to work, right?

If you want to fake claim a power that covers for your scum factional kill, poisoner is best.  Arsonist doesn't work because you can't trigger your own kills.  But hey, with poisoner, you claim in thread who you poisoned someone, other half knows who to kill.

[Witherweaver]

Except maybe Joseph's... that itself is suspicious.

I had this thought on D1 while reading, don't know if I posted it.

The scum kills are like poison kills.  Well, more like single-target arson kills.  But anyway, they are delayed kills which require a trigger (the other half of the scum team also targeting) for them to work, right?

If you want to fake claim a power that covers for your scum factional kill, poisoner is best.  Arsonist doesn't work because you can't trigger your own kills.  But hey, with poisoner, you claim in thread who you poisoned someone, other half knows who to kill.

Yeah.  Yeah, I think that's possible.

[ashersky]

If it is, I think he probably has a true pro-town power, like doctor or un-affector or something, that he'd never use.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Hydrad's role was not townie.  Hydrad lets subteam A know if subteam B attacked someone yet, so that subteam A can finish the kill.  That's good.

Hydrad's role has town utility, though.. as town it lets you verify that someone is less likely to be scum.

All our roles work as both town and scum...

This line of thinking makes sense. This is probably how things were balanced against the possibility of a massclaim. People having mixed powers makes it interesting.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Except maybe Joseph's... that itself is suspicious.

I had this thought on D1 while reading, don't know if I posted it.

The scum kills are like poison kills.  Well, more like single-target arson kills.  But anyway, they are delayed kills which require a trigger (the other half of the scum team also targeting) for them to work, right?

If you want to fake claim a power that covers for your scum factional kill, poisoner is best.  Arsonist doesn't work because you can't trigger your own kills.  But hey, with poisoner, you claim in thread who you poisoned someone, other half knows who to kill.

I like this line of thinking, especially since Joseph has been acting super scummy for most of the game.

[A Drowned Kernel]

WW, did you ever claim anything regarding your usage of your role?

[Ichimaru Gin]

I'm bothered by this:

Claim 1: I can Doctor people if certain other people get lynched, so hey I'm a Doctor
Claim 2: Oh by the way, if none of those people get lynched, then my target is effectively Attacked for that night.

The downside if your power is actually better than attacking as scum.  If you're scum and Attack, then you need the other (unknown) scum to Attack him.  But this way either team can Attack for a kill.  In particular, your team can, which is particularly high utility.

That's an aside; all our powers seem to have both town and scum utility. (I think this was balance issues.. i think they were constructed so that either scum or town could end up with them.)   The part of issue is the two-part claim that initially sells Ichi as a Doctor, which again fits e's narrative of Ichi overly trying to appear townie.

I'm bothered by the fact that you choose to completely ignore (again) the fact that I also later claimed that my target would be given information about my role (which would have made me look townier). And the fact that scum with my abilities would have absolutely no incentive to claim the part about my targets being more vulnerable if one of my picks isn't lynched. We had decided to do the massclaim; I was the first to full claim and didn't know if we were revealing everything about our abilities--since XP hadn't.

[Witherweaver]

WW, did you ever claim anything regarding your usage of your role?

Everything of interest.

[silverspawn]

I'm a little bit confused about the silver <-> Joseph thing. You say one of us is lying - but why? I get the narrative for me to do that, but why should scum!Joseph claim to have targeted XP? That would just get him into danger for no reason. isn't it more likely that an extern source somehow messed with his target?

[silverspawn]

and the IG debate is really confusing

[Witherweaver]

I'm a little bit confused about the silver <-> Joseph thing. You say one of us is lying - but why? I get the narrative for me to do that, but why should scum!Joseph claim to have targeted XP? That would just get him into danger for no reason. isn't it more likely that an extern source somehow messed with his target?

If he targets XP with Scum's faction attack, he's a little obligated to claim he targeted with something.

[Witherweaver]

Vote: Ichi

by the way.  Even on the off chance he isn't scum,  there isn't anything very useful about a town player who scum hunts exclusively on the basis of who votes for or defends him.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Vote: Ichi

by the way.  Even on the off chance he isn't scum,  there isn't anything very useful about a town player who scum hunts exclusively on the basis of who votes for or defends him.

You used the absence of this behavior to manipulate me and get me mislynched in Musical Mafia. And you're grossly exaggerating it. This also hurts my feelings and really makes me hope you're scum.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Also. When was the last vote count?

[silverspawn]

I'm a little bit confused about the silver <-> Joseph thing. You say one of us is lying - but why? I get the narrative for me to do that, but why should scum!Joseph claim to have targeted XP? That would just get him into danger for no reason. isn't it more likely that an extern source somehow messed with his target?

If he targets XP with Scum's faction attack, he's a little obligated to claim he targeted with something.

but that's the thing - he doesn't. the investigative roles that have claimed are

ashersky - Blind Follower (target player, receive type of Action performed)
Hydrad - Detective (target player, receive whether or not he was attacked previously & if he was attacked this night)
Faust - Role Watcher (target player, see all roles that targeted that player that night)

none of them is a watcher in the classical sense - one that sees which players targeted the watcher player. so, there is nothing Joseph gains from lying.

[Witherweaver]

Vote: Ichi

by the way.  Even on the off chance he isn't scum,  there isn't anything very useful about a town player who scum hunts exclusively on the basis of who votes for or defends him.

You used the absence of this behavior to manipulate me and get me mislynched in Musical Mafia. And you're grossly exaggerating it. This also hurts my feelings and really makes me hope you're scum.

If you're not scum, honestly go reread yourself and tell me again that I'm exaggerating at all.

[Witherweaver]

I'm a little bit confused about the silver <-> Joseph thing. You say one of us is lying - but why? I get the narrative for me to do that, but why should scum!Joseph claim to have targeted XP? That would just get him into danger for no reason. isn't it more likely that an extern source somehow messed with his target?

If he targets XP with Scum's faction attack, he's a little obligated to claim he targeted with something.

but that's the thing - he doesn't. the investigative roles that have claimed are

ashersky - Blind Follower (target player, receive type of Action performed)
Hydrad - Detective (target player, receive whether or not he was attacked previously & if he was attacked this night)
Faust - Role Watcher (target player, see all roles that targeted that player that night)

none of them is a watcher in the classical sense - one that sees which players targeted the watcher player. so, there is nothing Joseph gains from lying.

Wait, we know Joseph targetted XP with Poison from Faust, right?

Wait, Faust.. I guess getting role actions doesn't include Factional one?

[Ichimaru Gin]

Vote: Ichi

by the way.  Even on the off chance he isn't scum,  there isn't anything very useful about a town player who scum hunts exclusively on the basis of who votes for or defends him.

You used the absence of this behavior to manipulate me and get me mislynched in Musical Mafia. And you're grossly exaggerating it. This also hurts my feelings and really makes me hope you're scum.

If you're not scum, honestly go reread yourself and tell me again that I'm exaggerating at all.

I know that a lot of my reads are OMGUS. Why are you acting as if this is a new thing? I firmly believe that town!me gets singled out by scum as someone safe to tunnel, and I legitimately think most of the cases and people who want me dead are terrible. I've acknowledged good cases on me in the past. It's not as simple as voting for me makes you scum; moreso voting for me for terrible, disingenuous reasons in a fashion that looks overtly manipulative and selective makes me think you're scum. (and of course "you" here is meant in the general sense, not specifically you).

[Witherweaver]

I think Joseph is just wrong about canceling Attack. I think the Attack negates poison but not the other way.

Also, scum could have non-role factional powers.

[silverspawn]

Wait, we know Joseph targetted XP with Poison from Faust, right?

Wait, Faust.. I guess getting role actions doesn't include Factional one?

faust claimed this: "I targeted chairs last night. He was targeted by pickpocket and therapist (and no other role)."

So, no.

but even if faust is watching XP and Joseph attacks him, faust will just know that he has been attacked, that doesn't strain Joseph