/inRMM I think. /in
now does silver like a move vanilla game or does he enjoy a more RMM type game. hmmmm.
/in
now does silver like a move vanilla game or does he enjoy a more RMM type game. hmmmm.
/in
now does silver like a move vanilla game or does he enjoy a more RMM type game. hmmmm.
I imagine he would pick whatever the most extreme is. Given the choice betwene two pretty normal setups and one with barely any PR, I think he'd go for the third.
Playing WIFOM with the mod is rarely very successful though, so I doubt knowing that he chose one of three setups will have much of an impact.
/in
now does silver like a move vanilla game or does he enjoy a more RMM type game. hmmmm.
I imagine he would pick whatever the most extreme is. Given the choice betwene two pretty normal setups and one with barely any PR, I think he'd go for the third.
Playing WIFOM with the mod is rarely very successful though, so I doubt knowing that he chose one of three setups will have much of an impact.
It's not really WIFOM unless Silver is basing his decision on what people expect him to do with some kind of judgement assignment there.
Can night fall completely on a weekend? Or is another 24 hrs added on?
Another MLP game?
Another MLP game?
well, why should I make a non-MLP game when I can make an MLP game instead?
Thanks. I don't mean to be a drama queen (or drama princess for this game?) about this, I just feel bad. Looking forward to the game.
I haven't been playing mafia when you were still there, so I don't know anything of the bad stuff you're talking about. You're in - I don't think rereading it will be necessary.
Yeah, turning the verbosity down... It's a work in progress!
If it's not too much trouble, could someone provide a list of uos's games played on this forum? He's the only player currently signed up for this game that I haven't seen in multiple previous games and id like to get a feel for how he plays
PPE
Thanks. I don't mean to be a drama queen (or drama princess for this game?) about this, I just feel bad. Looking forward to the game.
I haven't been playing mafia when you were still there, so I don't know anything of the bad stuff you're talking about. You're in - I don't think rereading it will be necessary.
EDIT: Wither: Oh how I wish upvotes were possible in Forum Games.
Thanks. I don't mean to be a drama queen (or drama princess for this game?) about this, I just feel bad. Looking forward to the game.
I haven't been playing mafia when you were still there, so I don't know anything of the bad stuff you're talking about. You're in - I don't think rereading it will be necessary.
EDIT: Wither: Oh how I wish upvotes were possible in Forum Games.
This forum gives second chances. I too vanished after playing 1.5 games, and look at me now!
Oh, that game. That game was meaningless in terms of actual reads.really? I thought when you posted things like "g dee Dee bsjehdhbiskwbwbwkdodjvenkdjwj" it meant you were town (and then part of a cult). But no, i've read through quite a few game logs
You got nothing on me. :)
Oh, that game. That game was meaningless in terms of actual reads.really? I thought when you posted things like "g dee Dee bsjehdhbiskwbwbwkdodjvenkdjwj" it meant you were town (and then part of a cult). But no, i've read through quite a few game logs
You got nothing on me. :)
On my play? I'm just like Faust and IG and Hydrad. I'm pretty much always scummy. :p
I always think faust is townyOh, that game. That game was meaningless in terms of actual reads.really? I thought when you posted things like "g dee Dee bsjehdhbiskwbwbwkdodjvenkdjwj" it meant you were town (and then part of a cult). But no, i've read through quite a few game logs
You got nothing on me. :)
On my play? I'm just like Faust and IG and Hydrad. I'm pretty much always scummy. :p
On my play? I'm just like Faust and IG and Hydrad. I'm pretty much always scummy. :p
How am I always scummy? Really, that's interesting, in my perception other players usually have a town read on me.
faust always seems towny and therefore always seems scummy.
Teproc, yeah, he did seem scummier in M61 (where he was town) than he did in the game which just finished (where he was scum); so maybe that's a tell.
Teproc, yeah, he did seem scummier in M61 (where he was town) than he did in the game which just finished (where he was scum); so maybe that's a tell.
I wasn't in M61.
But I'm completely unreadable. 8)
Teproc, yeah, he did seem scummier in M61 (where he was town) than he did in the game which just finished (where he was scum); so maybe that's a tell.
I wasn't in M61.
ehh *blarnia. the other game I modded. the one where you were the thing with the protecting where I just reread you
Oh and I think I purposefully played scummier in that game because... something to do with the weird PR you had given me.
Oh yeah, just because I wanted to avoid being NKed. So that's probably it.
Oh and I think I purposefully played scummier in that game because... something to do with the weird PR you had given me.
Oh yeah, just because I wanted to avoid being NKed. So that's probably it.
I find this logic weird. I mean I get it on a surface level, but if some townie is playing scummier than usual, why not NK him for this very reason. Which leads to it not actually preventing NKs.
Of course, I could be out of touch with how these games go down in practice, but in theory I dislike this strategy.
Oh and I think I purposefully played scummier in that game because... something to do with the weird PR you had given me.
Oh yeah, just because I wanted to avoid being NKed. So that's probably it.
Scummy when town and townie when scum. Until being townie when scum makes you look scummy, then be scummy as scum and townie as town. Dance like a fly, bite like a mosquito.Anyone have a fly swatter?
though we lost at lylodoes town ever lose at a time other than lylo?
mail-meWhy silverspawn why? :(
mail-meWhy silverspawn why? :(
though we lost at lylodoes town ever lose at a time other than lylo?
Sometimes at night.
Sometimes at night.
But only if it's the night after MyLo!
Yeah yeah okay, I meant we lost in a situation where there were 2 town vs 1 scum, which is the quintessential lylo situation in my head.Don't concede the point, we're all pedantically coming to your defense!
Oh, OR the one guy that can decide the game for town gets modkilled for inactivity causing the SK to win and you to lose even though you correctly pegged like every scum that game and okay it was still LyLo but I'm still a little bit bitter about it
/in
For future reference, I should be auto-in to pony-themed Mafia.
Oh, OR the one guy that can decide the game for town gets modkilled for inactivity causing the SK to win and you to lose even though you correctly pegged like every scum that game and okay it was still LyLo but I'm still a little bit bitter about it
(http://fs2.directupload.net/images/150617/ndh4tbr5.png)
Oh, OR the one guy that can decide the game for town gets modkilled for inactivity causing the SK to win and you to lose even though you correctly pegged like every scum that game and okay it was still LyLo but I'm still a little bit bitter about it
OR OR someone can break the rules at night and get modkilled after scum gets correctly lynched at Lylo!
This is fun and/or slightly acrimonious!
I love the subtle message here, that Rainbow Dash is a Nobody.... ??? ?
Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...Do it.
Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
Please yes. Have we still only played one game together (ASoIaF) ? This isn't right.
Vote: Teproc for standing me up in Paris and leaving me standing alone in the rue with my baguette in my hand.
And now I'm sad because I can't edit that post. :(
Anyways.
And now I'm sad because I can't edit that post. :(
Anyways.
Vote for someone.
Vote: Seprix
Vote: Seprix
Vote: Seprix
Stop voting my scum partner kthxbye
Vote: Hydrad
Vote: Seprix
Is this seriously intended?
Vote: Seprix
Is this seriously intended?
for RVS its pretty intended.
Vote: Seprix
Is this seriously intended?
for RVS its pretty intended.
It's okay, Hydrady! We're all friends! ...Even when we brutally murder each other in social fear of retribution, our hands covered in deep red blood of the innocent and guilty alike...
Vote: Seprix
Is this seriously intended?
for RVS its pretty intended.
It's okay, Hydrady! We're all friends! ...Even when we brutally murder each other in social fear of retribution, our hands covered in deep red blood of the innocent and guilty alike...
The small text caught me off guard.
Vote: Seprix
Gotta protect my good buddy Liam, I've actually played with him before I think. More importantly, that flavor was lovely, stop whining about it and give us a kiss Seprix sweetums.
Now, time for setup talk: there's one important thing we know for sure now, scum is a Godfather, a Roleblocker, and either a Strongman or a 1-shot Strongman. So keeping this in mind, claiming or trying to narrow down other setup options in any way is a bad idea. We have nothing else to learn beyond whether the Strongman is 1-shot or not, which hardly matters, either way we don't want to rely on any schemes involving a doctor claiming who they are protecting, and scum has quite a bit worth learning.
We might want to consider a mason/non-mason claim or other things like that later on IFF we've got a suspected fakeclaim, but it's too easy for scum to dodge and exploit in general I think. Claiming schemes are unlikely to work here.
Oh, and I meant to also say: This should be an end to all setup talk.
Beyond knowing for sure that there is a mafia roleblocker and an at-least-1-shot strongman we have nothing else to gain. So back to regularly scheduled RVS which should hopefully become a lot less random soon with these two lovely wagons.
Doesn't everyone have a pony they can claim as their own though?
Wait, town advocating openly to not talk about set up?
vote: Professor Umbridge
Maybe this is a stretch, but I see no reason to not talk about set-up, even if it is obvious.
Wait, town advocating openly to not talk about set up?
vote: Professor Umbridge
Maybe this is a stretch, but I see no reason to not talk about set-up, even if it is obvious.
Not sure how much is serious (probably none but anyway). So I read the other game using this setup last night and you would not believe (or you might if you read it) how much excessive confusion there seemed to be about the setup. It's not that hard, but to the way some people's brain's work I think it actually is. Given the amount of what turned out to be legitimately town confusion in that game, it's important that we all know there is a roleblocker, godfather, and some kind of strongman for sure, 100% here.
But any speculation beyond that is dangerous because a roleblocker and a strongman are really good at getting around town power roles and the more we talk about it the more we risk those being guessed. There are 924 possible setups in this system, and while that can be narrowed down substantially, it can't be narrowed nearly enough to be actually useful to town. But scum have half as many viable setups to consider as town do, and a heck of a lot more to gain by solving it right now. And reasonable odds of being able to come up with actually, legitimately safe power claims.
I don't know who a bunch of the characters in the flavor are, but that hint that there is a theme to the scum flavor-flavor names seems unlikely to be helpful at all without some scum flips to base it on. That might be worth talking about at some point I guess,
but power role related discussion needs to be kept to a minimum, and in a setup like this it could be dangerously tempting.
There is a godfather, a roleblocker, and a strongman (1-shot or otherwise). That's all we know and all we should discuss on that front.
It's also worth noting that if anyone is a cop, vig, or mason, then that person knows the strongman is not a 1-shot
It's also worth noting that if anyone is a cop, vig, or mason, then that person knows the strongman is not a 1-shot
This could be important.
@Skip: If you had to, gun to your head, vote for one of me, Seprix, and Mail-mi right now, who would you vote for and why?
@Skip: If you had to, gun to your head, vote for one of me, Seprix, and Mail-mi right now, who would you vote for and why?
What kind of question is that? It's Day 1.
@Skip: If you had to, gun to your head, vote for one of me, Seprix, and Mail-mi right now, who would you vote for and why?
What kind of question is that? It's Day 1.
Why are you questioning/discouraging us from moving on from RVS?
Day 1 doesn't have to be random. My vote on you is no longer random, for example.
@Skip: If you had to, gun to your head, vote for one of me, Seprix, and Mail-mi right now, who would you vote for and why?
What kind of question is that? It's Day 1.
Why are you questioning/discouraging us from moving on from RVS?
Day 1 doesn't have to be random. My vote on you is no longer random, for example.
So questioning the groupthink gets you lynched? That's bullshit. :/
No, but trying to act as if day 1 didn't matter and asking serious questions was bad is scummy. RVS is useless, the faster we get out of it, the better for town.
Vote: Teproc for standing me up in Paris and leaving me standing alone in the rue with my baguette in my hand.
Innuendo intentional?
@WW : I feel really bad about that, though I also stood up a longtime friend for her birthday, I was legit really sick.
UoS nailed everything there is to say about this setup, most importantly that the least we talk about it, the better.
vote: Seprix
PPE : 3
As they should. How you people even survive without them is beyond me.
Well, I don't see any real way out of this. I don't see any better lynches, except maybe Hydrad. The only thing I can say is this: Why am I even a good lynch? Because I'm asking questions?
Well, I don't see any real way out of this.
Pardon me if I am a bit worried. I have 4 people voting for me
Pardon me if I am a bit worried. I have 4 people voting for me, and this thread hasn't even reached page 6 yet.
But we are on page 6! Check and mate.
I mean if you have it set to 50 messages per page we are. If your connection is terrible and you keep it at 25 we're on page 6!But we are on page 6! Check and mate.
We're on page 3.
I mean if you have it set to 50 messages per page we are. If your connection is terrible and you keep it at 25 we're on page 6!But we are on page 6! Check and mate.
We're on page 3.
I mean if you have it set to 50 messages per page we are. If your connection is terrible and you keep it at 25 we're on page 6!But we are on page 6! Check and mate.
We're on page 3.
The actual game didn't start until page 4.
Pardon me if I am a bit worried. I have 4 people voting for me, and this thread hasn't even reached page 6 yet.
Well, I don't want to distract from the game.
He was scum in Flavourless, you can read that.
Well, I don't want to distract from the game.
You keep distracting from the game! Questions about your reasoning are much more relevant than page number!
(Although I'll sheep the opinion that French bread is delicious.)
Hey, Seprix had a really quick Day 1 wagon there too~
UoS wants to know why you are voting Hydrad instead of Mail-mi.
seprix. Because I think he'd be least helpful as town.It's also worth noting that if anyone is a cop, vig, or mason, then that person knows the strongman is not a 1-shot
This could be important.
It's useless for town purposes at the moment. It's true, but we shouldn't talk about it. One shot of strongman is enough to get by any claiming-protection schemes. Drop it.
@Skip: If you had to, gun to your head, vote for one of me, Seprix, and Mail-mi right now, who would you vote for and why?
My vote on you is no longer random, for example.this kind of justifying a previous rvs, I don't like.
Well, I don't see any real way out of this. I don't see any better lynches, except maybe Hydrad. The only thing I can say is this: Why am I even a good lynch? Because I'm asking questions?I don't know how to quote two posts, but this and the next one are weird. Way out of what, the game just started? What did hydrad do?
I will revert back to Hydrad.when were you on hydrad?
vote: Hydrad
I will revert back to Hydrad.when were you on hydrad?
vote: Hydrad
My vote on you is no longer random, for example.this kind of justifying a previous rvs, I don't like.
Again, PPE
My vote on you is no longer random, for example.this kind of justifying a previous rvs, I don't like.
Again, PPE
I concur; I've actually only ever seen scum do this, I think.
Vote: WW
because I want to see him lynched day 1 once.
silver, you break my heart by misspelling my username so :'(
Vote: WW
because I want to see him lynched day 1 once.
Didn't you notice we were out of RVS ? There's actual stuff you could be commenting on.
obviously there is also a town narrative, I wasn't claiming otherwise. But I can totally see scum feeling like they have to justify an rvs, or planning an rvs on someone they can easily 'find scummy'My vote on you is no longer random, for example.this kind of justifying a previous rvs, I don't like.
Again, PPE
I concur; I've actually only ever seen scum do this, I think.
Really ? It seems pretty normal to me : you RVS someone, then you get a real (thgouh weak because early, but still) reason that would push you to vote so you just say that... why would scum even want to do this particularly ?
Vote: Seprix
Is this seriously intended?
for RVS its pretty intended.
It's okay, Hydrady! We're all friends! ...Even when we brutally murder each other in social fear of retribution, our hands covered in deep red blood of the innocent and guilty alike...
Vote: Seprix
Gotta protect my good buddy Liam, I've actually played with him before I think. More importantly, that flavor was lovely, stop whining about it and give us a kiss Seprix sweetums.
Now, time for setup talk: there's one important thing we know for sure now, scum is a Godfather, a Roleblocker, and either a Strongman or a 1-shot Strongman. So keeping this in mind, claiming or trying to narrow down other setup options in any way is a bad idea. We have nothing else to learn beyond whether the Strongman is 1-shot or not, which hardly matters, either way we don't want to rely on any schemes involving a doctor claiming who they are protecting, and scum has quite a bit worth learning.
We might want to consider a mason/non-mason claim or other things like that later on IFF we've got a suspected fakeclaim, but it's too easy for scum to dodge and exploit in general I think. Claiming schemes are unlikely to work here.
Doesn't everyone have a pony they can claim as their own though?
And Silverspawn is a total fanfiction writer, so it makes sense he'd show off his Rule 34 stuff.
PPE: 1Oh, and I meant to also say: This should be an end to all setup talk.
Beyond knowing for sure that there is a mafia roleblocker and an at-least-1-shot strongman we have nothing else to gain. So back to regularly scheduled RVS which should hopefully become a lot less random soon with these two lovely wagons.
Wait, town advocating openly to not talk about set up?
vote: Professor Umbridge
Maybe this is a stretch, but I see no reason to not talk about set-up, even if it is obvious.
Vote: Teproc for standing me up in Paris and leaving me standing alone in the rue with my baguette in my hand.
Innuendo intentional?
Baguettes are a big thing in Paris.
I have no clue what scum!Seprix would look like. He could not possibly be scummier than town!Seprix.
obviously there is also a town narrative, I wasn't claiming otherwise. But I can totally see scum feeling like they have to justify an rvs, or planning an rvs on someone they can easily 'find scummy'My vote on you is no longer random, for example.this kind of justifying a previous rvs, I don't like.
Again, PPE
I concur; I've actually only ever seen scum do this, I think.
Really ? It seems pretty normal to me : you RVS someone, then you get a real (thgouh weak because early, but still) reason that would push you to vote so you just say that... why would scum even want to do this particularly ?
obviously there is also a town narrative, I wasn't claiming otherwise. But I can totally see scum feeling like they have to justify an rvs, or planning an rvs on someone they can easily 'find scummy'My vote on you is no longer random, for example.this kind of justifying a previous rvs, I don't like.
Again, PPE
I concur; I've actually only ever seen scum do this, I think.
Really ? It seems pretty normal to me : you RVS someone, then you get a real (thgouh weak because early, but still) reason that would push you to vote so you just say that... why would scum even want to do this particularly ?
It's weird that you think that's a justification.
It's much weirder that Wither agreed with you and strengthened it to "something only scum do" especially without actually voting for me.
Vote: Witherweaver
maybe justification is the wrong word. I can easily see scum rvs'ing and then later changing it to a real vote because "oh he's actually pretty scummy". Town can change their minds too, but to explicitly point out for our benefit that your vote is now, in fact, a real vote is something I see as scummy.obviously there is also a town narrative, I wasn't claiming otherwise. But I can totally see scum feeling like they have to justify an rvs, or planning an rvs on someone they can easily 'find scummy'My vote on you is no longer random, for example.this kind of justifying a previous rvs, I don't like.
Again, PPE
I concur; I've actually only ever seen scum do this, I think.
Really ? It seems pretty normal to me : you RVS someone, then you get a real (thgouh weak because early, but still) reason that would push you to vote so you just say that... why would scum even want to do this particularly ?
It's weird that you think that's a justification.
also Joseph you won't be mislynched this game! wooo.I haven't been mislynched early for a couple of games.
Oh, and I meant to also say: This should be an end to all setup talk.Vote: UmbrageOfSnow, because RVs is not that fun. Also, because we haven't played together before-welcome!
Beyond knowing for sure that there is a mafia roleblocker and an at-least-1-shot strongman we have nothing else to gain. So back to regularly scheduled RVS which should hopefully become a lot less random soon with these two lovely wagons.
Someone want to hammer this? Joking of course. Although I'm innocent, so don't lynch me.Pardon me if I am a bit worried. I have 4 people voting for me
That's convenient, I was about to ask how many votes you have, but it seems like I don't have to do that now.
Vote: Seprix
Yh, doesn't seem super-scummy.My vote on you is no longer random, for example.this kind of justifying a previous rvs, I don't like.
Again, PPE
I concur; I've actually only ever seen scum do this, I think.
I agree, especially as ss had 3 setups to choose from, so if one of them was reasonably easily breakable, I don't think he'd have chosen that one.Vote: Seprix
Gotta protect my good buddy Liam, I've actually played with him before I think. More importantly, that flavor was lovely, stop whining about it and give us a kiss Seprix sweetums.
Now, time for setup talk: there's one important thing we know for sure now, scum is a Godfather, a Roleblocker, and either a Strongman or a 1-shot Strongman. So keeping this in mind, claiming or trying to narrow down other setup options in any way is a bad idea. We have nothing else to learn beyond whether the Strongman is 1-shot or not, which hardly matters, either way we don't want to rely on any schemes involving a doctor claiming who they are protecting, and scum has quite a bit worth learning.
We might want to consider a mason/non-mason claim or other things like that later on IFF we've got a suspected fakeclaim, but it's too easy for scum to dodge and exploit in general I think. Claiming schemes are unlikely to work here.
Doesn't everyone have a pony they can claim as their own though?
And Silverspawn is a total fanfiction writer, so it makes sense he'd show off his Rule 34 stuff.
PPE: 1Oh, and I meant to also say: This should be an end to all setup talk.
Beyond knowing for sure that there is a mafia roleblocker and an at-least-1-shot strongman we have nothing else to gain. So back to regularly scheduled RVS which should hopefully become a lot less random soon with these two lovely wagons.
Wait, town advocating openly to not talk about set up?
vote: Professor Umbridge
Maybe this is a stretch, but I see no reason to not talk about set-up, even if it is obvious.
This setup is pretty unbreakable, and he's just pointing that out. I see nothing suspicious about that.
I guess, seems a tad unlikely though.maybe justification is the wrong word. I can easily see scum rvs'ing and then later changing it to a real vote because "oh he's actually pretty scummy". Town can change their minds too, but to explicitly point out for our benefit that your vote is now, in fact, a real vote is something I see as scummy.obviously there is also a town narrative, I wasn't claiming otherwise. But I can totally see scum feeling like they have to justify an rvs, or planning an rvs on someone they can easily 'find scummy'My vote on you is no longer random, for example.this kind of justifying a previous rvs, I don't like.
Again, PPE
I concur; I've actually only ever seen scum do this, I think.
Really ? It seems pretty normal to me : you RVS someone, then you get a real (thgouh weak because early, but still) reason that would push you to vote so you just say that... why would scum even want to do this particularly ?
It's weird that you think that's a justification.
Oh, and silverspawn, my username is still misspelled in the last vote count and in the player list in the first post. Not like I really mind, but since you said you fixed it, I want to make sure that you actually know how my username is spelled :P.
I think I like vote: skip wooznum at the moment.
I think I like vote: skip wooznum at the moment.
Why? He doesn't seem particularly scummy or townie to me right now.
I think I like vote: skip wooznum at the moment.
Why? He doesn't seem particularly scummy or townie to me right now.
I think I like vote: skip wooznum at the moment.
Why? He doesn't seem particularly scummy or townie to me right now.
He does seem somewhat scummy to me right now.
[snip]
obviously there is also a town narrative, I wasn't claiming otherwise. But I can totally see scum feeling like they have to justify an rvs, or planning an rvs on someone they can easily 'find scummy'
well, my original post calling UoS out was one line, I didn't think it was damning evidence at the time, and still don't. Then teproc questioned it so I felt I should explain myself in greater length. I wasnt going to push a lynch based on this, it's just nobody even pointed it out. I wouldn't say that post you quoted was hedgey, so much as it was my actual opinion[snip]
obviously there is also a town narrative, I wasn't claiming otherwise. But I can totally see scum feeling like they have to justify an rvs, or planning an rvs on someone they can easily 'find scummy'
Posts like this read as somewhat hedgey/cautious to me. He's pushing a case, but not strongly, and his basis for his case is relatively safe while being something he could later back off on. Basically, he looks like he's making an effort to be active and helpful without really making any waves.
vote: chairs
Do you have any non-RVS opinions at the moment?seprix is slight town for forgetting whom he voted, I don't think that was faked but even if its genuine it doesn't prove anything.
Teproc is slight scum for not scumhunting harder. He has a reputation as a great town player in I seem to remember seeing him getting more involved this early
Adk is slight town for pushing me when nobody previously did. Maybe I flatter myself but I don't think I was an ideal choice for a scum mislynch at that point
who says I didn'tAdk is slight town for pushing me when nobody previously did. Maybe I flatter myself but I don't think I was an ideal choice for a scum mislynch at that point
Flattery eh? You should know I have a general policy of being suspicious of people who claim to find my towny.
he was here earlier but seemed more interested in baguettesTeproc is slight scum for not scumhunting harder. He has a reputation as a great town player in I seem to remember seeing him getting more involved this early
It's 1AM on a friday morning in the country of the gallic rooster. We'll allow it.
Oh, and silverspawn, my username is still misspelled in the last vote count and in the player list in the first post. Not like I really mind, but since you said you fixed it, I want to make sure that you actually know how my username is spelled :P.
ah... there are so many ways your name can be misspelled!
not really. I played a couple games with friends on groupme, which is a smartphone app similar to whatsapp, if anyone knows what I'm talking about. But we were basically fooling around.
ADK has gone hard on skip based on hedginess. But this is only skip's second game on f.ds. Had you played somewhere else before, skip?
And I didn't read mail-mi's post as a defense, more of a question posed to adk to see what explanation would be given.
It's weird that you think that's a justification.
It's much weirder that Wither agreed with you and strengthened it to "something only scum do" especially without actually voting for me.
Vote: Witherweaver
You know nothing, UmbrageOfSnow.
New_Player_001's point on Snow was a good one, not sure why people don't see it. Next time I won't make a comment on anything without voting, as it's so obvscum.
Oooh ooh oooh, I think Teproc may be scum :)
I fail to see how Teproc's post was "a short novel", nor why attempting to justify a vote is scummy, nor how being the second person to vote for someone is "jumping in on a wagon". To me it looks like you're trying to disarm your wagon and discredit people who are voting for you.
You're right that he's third, my mistake. But I disagree that his post is "overexplained".
So, I am a bit confused by WW's position here. Can you walk me through your thought process ever since the "I've only ever seen scum do it" post?
I fail to see how Teproc's post was "a short novel", nor why attempting to justify a vote is scummy, nor how being the second person to vote for someone is "jumping in on a wagon". To me it looks like you're trying to disarm your wagon and discredit people who are voting for you.I agree with ADK here. Vote: WW.
Actually, it's your recent exchange with Teproc that confuses me the most.
This is L-2 I believe.
Actually, it's your recent exchange with Teproc that confuses me the most.
His post where he votes for me looks like he's trying to come up with justification to vote for me and not him really thinking I look scummy. So, Teproc looks scummy.
This is L-2 I believe.
Sweet, early wagons are on town.
4 lines is hardly "a short novel and a letter to your senator". You were not simply exaggerating, you were misrepresenting the truth. Plus, Teproc likes justifying his position, so a short paragraph is hardly indicative of anything.
Anyway, your reaction seems to be mostly OMGUS. I still prefer my vote on Mail-mi.
BTW, be the change you want to see in the world, vote: mail-mi!
This is L-2 I believe.
Sweet, early wagons are on town.
Actually, I've found that the second guy isn't so safe from the games I've played. I think WW is town though.
4 lines is hardly "a short novel and a letter to your senator". You were not simply exaggerating, you were misrepresenting the truth. Plus, Teproc likes justifying his position, so a short paragraph is hardly indicative of anything.
Anyway, your reaction seems to be mostly OMGUS. I still prefer my vote on Mail-mi.
BTW, be the change you want to see in the world, vote: mail-mi!
The thing was, Teproc was basically sheeping Snow's vote, but he added all this extra stuff to it.
It's weird that you think that's a justification.
It's much weirder that Wither agreed with you and strengthened it to "something only scum do" especially without actually voting for me.
Vote: Witherweaver
You know nothing, UmbrageOfSnow.
vote: Witherweaver
There's a reason I quoted WW, not skip, when questioning the "justifying an RVS vote" reasoning. He's encouraging suspicion based on dubious reasons without actually taking part... and when confronted, has nothing to say about it. Perhaps hoping we'd just move on ? I won't, town!WW is more engaged than this, and wouldn't only post the jokey response. He would do that and follow it up with an actual post of significance. Here his only post of significance is "yeah, that thing is totally scummy, you go ahead and lynch that guy".
What is your position on Mail-mi, again? I recall you saying that you didn't really feel like voting for him now.
Vote Count 1.3
Seprix (1): Awaclus
Witherweaver (5): Hydrad, UmbrageOfSnow, Teproc, A Drowned Kernel, Joseph2302
mail-mi (3): chairs, pavovf, Seprix
chairs (1): skip wooznum
Teproc (1): Witherweaver
Not Voting (1): mail-mi
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends on June 28, 3 PM forum time.
Just call him Pavlov.
Vote: pavovf
What is your position on Mail-mi, again? I recall you saying that you didn't really feel like voting for him now.
I said Mail-Mi was scummy to me, but I didn't say why I didn't vote for him. Firstly, I confused Mail with Hydrad (3 hours of sleep does this), and when I realized my mistake, I was at L-1, so I didn't want to look like I was trying to throw votes around, hoping they stick. I want to be a bit more careful this time around, I always switch votes all of the time in my previous games. I feel like I should vote for Mail now.
vote: mail-mi
4 lines is hardly "a short novel and a letter to your senator". You were not simply exaggerating, you were misrepresenting the truth. Plus, Teproc likes justifying his position, so a short paragraph is hardly indicative of anything.
Anyway, your reaction seems to be mostly OMGUS. I still prefer my vote on Mail-mi.
BTW, be the change you want to see in the world, vote: mail-mi!
The thing was, Teproc was basically sheeping Snow's vote, but he added all this extra stuff to it.
So WW, did you reread or re-skim that flavorless game where Seprix was scum that you mentioned?
Also, could you elaborate on whether it's the phrasing or the action of having an RVS vote become serious that you object to? And what's the psychological rationale behind that?
So first I was overexplaining, now it's all about sheeping ? What's next, OMGUS, somehow ? WW is clearly stretching here, though I'm not entirely sure why yet.
I dont think it was intentional. Is it scummy if it's unintentional?So first I was overexplaining, now it's all about sheeping ? What's next, OMGUS, somehow ? WW is clearly stretching here, though I'm not entirely sure why yet.
This seems a bit like an intentional misrepresentation.
So first I was overexplaining, now it's all about sheeping ? What's next, OMGUS, somehow ? WW is clearly stretching here, though I'm not entirely sure why yet.
This seems a bit like an intentional misrepresentation.
I dont think it was intentional. Is it scummy if it's unintentional?So first I was overexplaining, now it's all about sheeping ? What's next, OMGUS, somehow ? WW is clearly stretching here, though I'm not entirely sure why yet.
This seems a bit like an intentional misrepresentation.
So first I was overexplaining, now it's all about sheeping ? What's next, OMGUS, somehow ? WW is clearly stretching here, though I'm not entirely sure why yet.
This seems a bit like an intentional misrepresentation.
How so ? You said you found me scummy because I overexplained. So far so good, I can see how you get that read. Then, when it seems like people disagree with that read, you add that I was sheeping. How did I misinterpret anything so far ?
Well I should say, especially when you're jumping in on a wagon.
Jumping on a wagon = sheeping ?
So any lynch is composed of a bunch of people sheeping for you ?
You did it again. I thought we were frieeeeeeeeeeeeends :'(
Vote: pavovf
Is it just me or does this ww/teproc fight seem a tad scum vs. scum?
Is it just me or does this ww/teproc fight seem a tad scum vs. scum?
Jumping on a wagon = sheeping ?
So any lynch is composed of a bunch of people sheeping for you ?
Did you read your original post? Did I just make it up or something?
Is it just me or does this ww/teproc fight seem a tad scum vs. scum?
Right, that's the "overexplaining argument", which, again, I can see how town!you could read my vote that way. What I find scummy is how defensive you are of your read on me, to the point that you're looking for standard vague scummy buzzwords like "sheeping" to back it up when pressed on it.
Is it just me or does this ww/teproc fight seem a tad scum vs. scum?
WW's recent responses seem absurd to me. Like he's opposed to the very concept of building a case or trying to convince people to vote for wagons you're jumping onto. It's not just a semantic argument.
And my vote was not primarily about WW questioning me without voting, while we're on that topic. My vote was a lot closer to the reasoning that teproc articulated, that WW was seeing if he could start something by supporting specious reasoning. The logic there seems to be nonsense, and I have a hard time believing he's never seen town have an RVS vote become a serious vote. I have an easy time believing he'd like to encourage town-on-town mutual suspicions over silly things.
Seprix, what's your reasoning about Mail-mi?
I just can't even right now.
vote: ww. I feel like this is going to be like the early Joseph games, where if we don't lynch you we just keep going back to "ought we?" and you're as good a choice as any D1 in my mind.
I just can't even right now.
vote: ww. I feel like this is going to be like the early Joseph games, where if we don't lynch you we just keep going back to "ought we?" and you're as good a choice as any D1 in my mind.
WW: Why have you a couple of times now tried to reduce my reason for voting for you to being about you not voting for me? Did you find my initial post unclear on that point? (Non-rhetorical question, I'm serious.)
Yep, it's L-1. chairs, did you know it was L-1 ?
Obviously don't hammer, need more time to discuss etc.
WW: Why have you a couple of times now tried to reduce my reason for voting for you to being about you not voting for me? Did you find my initial post unclear on that point? (Non-rhetorical question, I'm serious.)
I had thought that was the point. If I had voted for you instead of saying "Hey, good point here", would you have voted for me?
It's much weirder that Wither agreed with you and strengthened it to "something only scum do" especially without actually voting for me.
Vote: Witherweaver
WW: Why have you a couple of times now tried to reduce my reason for voting for you to being about you not voting for me? Did you find my initial post unclear on that point? (Non-rhetorical question, I'm serious.)
I had thought that was the point. If I had voted for you instead of saying "Hey, good point here", would you have voted for me?
WW: Why have you a couple of times now tried to reduce my reason for voting for you to being about you not voting for me? Did you find my initial post unclear on that point? (Non-rhetorical question, I'm serious.)
I had thought that was the point. If I had voted for you instead of saying "Hey, good point here", would you have voted for me?
I mean, it was an additional part of the point, but not the main one. But I'm realizing that might not have been clear enough. Yes, I would have also voted for you if you voted for me. So if you had missed that, then would you agree that Teproc's explanation helped establish the case on you more clearly?
No, because his explanation was in regards to results that happened after that point.Some of it was, but this sentence in particular:
He's encouraging suspicion based on dubious reasons without actually taking partIs what I was trying to say. I found that helpful, and his additional point about your reply went beyond sheeping, but even if he'd sheeped me, his reexplaining my point more clearly was apparently helpful.
No, because his explanation was in regards to results that happened after that point.Some of it was, but this sentence in particular:He's encouraging suspicion based on dubious reasons without actually taking partIs what I was trying to say. I found that helpful, and his additional point about your reply went beyond sheeping, but even if he'd sheeped me, his reexplaining my point more clearly was apparently helpful.
Why didn't you read my post where I voted for you closely?
Seprix, what's your reasoning about Mail-mi?
New_Player_001's point on Snow was a good one, not sure why people don't see it.?
3 posts:
RVS-scumjoke for hydrad
unvote Hydrad
hedgy defense of skip
The unvote is suspicious, looks like "hey guys I am active!" and it's doing absolutely nothing.
The defense sets off alarms for its extreme hedging, "I am going to defend skip but I don't want to commit to anything".
mail-mi tends to not post much, so you have to read between the lines much more than for other players. ]
I did know it was L-1.
I appreciate all the reactions.
vote: Teproc. Sorry to worry you, WW, I just wanted to see what Teproc would do to an unannounced L-1 :)
I have been lurking indeed; yesterday was busy. I should be on more today to answer any questions.
No that was not a hedge defense of skip, I just wanted to see what ADK's reasoning is.
I think Teproc and WW are of the same alignment. Whether that's town or scum, I don't know.
Yep, it's L-1. chairs, did you know it was L-1 ?
Obviously don't hammer, need more time to discuss etc.
WW: I'd consider stirring up town-on-town antagonism much based on something you don't truly believe (which is my opinion about your scumtell here) to be much scummier than trying to appear active. I won't claim to be any kind of expert on your meta but you didn't appear to be faking activity in the scum game of yours I skimmed. Do you think you do that as scum?
I mean I realize that's a loaded question, so maybe it's better if other regular players answer that too, but I was not under the impression that fake activity was what I should be looking for from WW.
Also, if you don't know why scum should be more likely to do a thing than town (due to differing win conditions or psychology) why would you suspect that thing to be a scumtell? If it's based purely on your own experience, why say this:New_Player_001's point on Snow was a good one, not sure why people don't see it.?
PPE: 2
I've never played with you, but I made a point to read a scum game of yours last night, and I'm trying to do that with everyone.
You're right that I've never played with you, which is a much better way to get a feel for these things, which is why I want other people to chime in on this. But I don't expect trying to fake activity from players with your attitude/style/whatever anyway I think. I could be crazy here, but it's just not the main thing I'm looking for. And applying general purpose scum tells to players where that would not seem to fit their personality doesn't seem really great. I find it strange that you want me to do that instead.
And what I'm getting at is that if it's your personal experience rather than something psychological/strategic (which I believe are the only scumtells that make sense, but that's not an argument we need to have right now) then why would you be surprised that other people didn't agree with you?
Yep, it's L-1. chairs, did you know it was L-1 ?
Obviously don't hammer, need more time to discuss etc.
Uh, Chairs? Why is this scummy?
I have been lurking indeed; yesterday was busy. I should be on more today to answer any questions.
No that was not a hedge defense of skip, I just wanted to see what ADK's reasoning is.
I think Teproc and WW are of the same alignment. Whether that's town or scum, I don't know.
If Teproc is scum, Mail-Mi is highly likely to be scum as well. It is known.
I have been lurking indeed; yesterday was busy. I should be on more today to answer any questions.
No that was not a hedge defense of skip, I just wanted to see what ADK's reasoning is.
I think Teproc and WW are of the same alignment. Whether that's town or scum, I don't know.
If Teproc is scum, Mail-Mi is highly likely to be scum as well. It is known.
And why is that?
are you saying that ww is purposely trying to generate interactions and you consider that towny?Yep, it's L-1. chairs, did you know it was L-1 ?
Obviously don't hammer, need more time to discuss etc.
Uh, Chairs? Why is this scummy?
Teproc appeared to be really, really pushing WW to me (maybe your impression will be different). I'm of the opinion that if you're pushing a wagon, you don't throw the brakes when the wagon gets to the edge of the cliff.
As far as WW's behavior - it's generated a lot of interaction on D1. That's something we reliably struggle with, imho, to the point that I almost ignore D1 in Normal (not RMM) games out of habit. Sure, he's been abrasive, but abrasive has led to a lot of opportunities for us to review each other on later Days after flips, which is the best part of forum Mafia, right?
I have been lurking indeed; yesterday was busy. I should be on more today to answer any questions.
No that was not a hedge defense of skip, I just wanted to see what ADK's reasoning is.
I think Teproc and WW are of the same alignment. Whether that's town or scum, I don't know.
If Teproc is scum, Mail-Mi is highly likely to be scum as well. It is known.
And why is that?
Yeah, I can't say I understand this association.
But about faking activity, etc., I think it's kind of a universal scum tell,
are you saying that ww is purposely trying to generate interactions and you consider that towny?Yep, it's L-1. chairs, did you know it was L-1 ?
Obviously don't hammer, need more time to discuss etc.
Uh, Chairs? Why is this scummy?
Teproc appeared to be really, really pushing WW to me (maybe your impression will be different). I'm of the opinion that if you're pushing a wagon, you don't throw the brakes when the wagon gets to the edge of the cliff.
As far as WW's behavior - it's generated a lot of interaction on D1. That's something we reliably struggle with, imho, to the point that I almost ignore D1 in Normal (not RMM) games out of habit. Sure, he's been abrasive, but abrasive has led to a lot of opportunities for us to review each other on later Days after flips, which is the best part of forum Mafia, right?
I have been lurking indeed; yesterday was busy. I should be on more today to answer any questions.
No that was not a hedge defense of skip, I just wanted to see what ADK's reasoning is.
I think Teproc and WW are of the same alignment. Whether that's town or scum, I don't know.
If Teproc is scum, Mail-Mi is highly likely to be scum as well. It is known.
And why is that?
Yeah, I can't say I understand this association.
Ditto.
Yep, it's L-1. chairs, did you know it was L-1 ?
Obviously don't hammer, need more time to discuss etc.
Uh, Chairs? Why is this scummy?
Teproc appeared to be really, really pushing WW to me (maybe your impression will be different). I'm of the opinion that if you're pushing a wagon, you don't throw the brakes when the wagon gets to the edge of the cliff.
As far as WW's behavior - it's generated a lot of interaction on D1. That's something we reliably struggle with, imho, to the point that I almost ignore D1 in Normal (not RMM) games out of habit. Sure, he's been abrasive, but abrasive has led to a lot of opportunities for us to review each other on later Days after flips, which is the best part of forum Mafia, right?
I don't think the mail-mi/Teproc scumteam line of reasoning makes much sense either (not only for the obvious reasons), but I doubt WW meant much by it. As a reminder : thinking about scumteams on day 1 is almost always counterproductive.
I don't think the mail-mi/Teproc scumteam line of reasoning makes much sense either (not only for the obvious reasons), but I doubt WW meant much by it. As a reminder : thinking about scumteams on day 1 is almost always counterproductive.
It's something Jimmmm pointed out once: a lot of the time, when scum has a scumpartners in a big argument, etc., they make comments like "town v. town" or "same alignment" or something to that effect.
This is L-2 I believe.
Sweet, early wagons are on town.
Or they don't result in a lynch, or something. I don't remember what the mantra is.Probably both, it must be a town wagon because I'm town, right?
I don't see how this is scummy from Teproc either.
It's weird that you think that's a justification.
It's much weirder that Wither agreed with you and strengthened it to "something only scum do" especially without actually voting for me.
Vote: Witherweaver
You know nothing, UmbrageOfSnow.
vote: Witherweaver
There's a reason I quoted WW, not skip, when questioning the "justifying an RVS vote" reasoning. He's encouraging suspicion based on dubious reasons without actually taking part... and when confronted, has nothing to say about it. Perhaps hoping we'd just move on ? I won't, town!WW is more engaged than this, and wouldn't only post the jokey response. He would do that and follow it up with an actual post of significance. Here his only post of significance is "yeah, that thing is totally scummy, you go ahead and lynch that guy".
Looks fine to me. I think Teproc is mistaken about WW, but he does have a point here.
It would be nice to know the opinion of Awaclus, joseph and Hydrad about all this.I think WW is scummy, which probably makes Teproc slightly town.
Don't understand this either.I have been lurking indeed; yesterday was busy. I should be on more today to answer any questions.
No that was not a hedge defense of skip, I just wanted to see what ADK's reasoning is.
I think Teproc and WW are of the same alignment. Whether that's town or scum, I don't know.
If Teproc is scum, Mail-Mi is highly likely to be scum as well. It is known.
And why is that?
Vote: WW
because I want to see him lynched day 1 once.
I'm lurky? I feel like I've been posting pretty damn frequently.9 posts in 2 days isn't super-active, although it is pretty active for chairs actually.
Hydrad: How RVSy was this vote really? Can you elaborate on your thoughts at the time you made it?Vote: WW
because I want to see him lynched day 1 once.
And what do you think of Teproc's response to it?
Hydrad: How RVSy was this vote really? Can you elaborate on your thoughts at the time you made it?Vote: WW
because I want to see him lynched day 1 once.
And what do you think of Teproc's response to it?
At the time it was pretty RVSy but its kinda turned into a real vote (now I'm scum because I said that right)
Then for teprocs response I guess I agreed with it. We were pretty much out of RVS and with my WW vote there I could have turned the game back into RVS and just hurt us so I think his point was valid.
Hydrad: How RVSy was this vote really? Can you elaborate on your thoughts at the time you made it?Vote: WW
because I want to see him lynched day 1 once.
And what do you think of Teproc's response to it?
At the time it was pretty RVSy but its kinda turned into a real vote (now I'm scum because I said that right)
Then for teprocs response I guess I agreed with it. We were pretty much out of RVS and with my WW vote there I could have turned the game back into RVS and just hurt us so I think his point was valid.
Cool. Any particular reason you wanted to move off Seprix at that time?
can you explain the point of this question? It stood out upon reread. Like trying to give the appearance of scumhunting/asking serious questions.
@Skip: If you had to, gun to your head, vote for one of me, Seprix, and Mail-mi right now, who would you vote for and why?
can you explain the point of this question? It stood out upon reread. Like trying to give the appearance of scumhunting/asking serious questions.
@Skip: If you had to, gun to your head, vote for one of me, Seprix, and Mail-mi right now, who would you vote for and why?
One more thing, Hydrad. Do you have any thoughts either way about Mail-mi's unvoting you?
I dont see how it would help you determine much of anything from whatever my answer might be. It's asking a question for the sake of not wanting to look like you're not asking questions. What did it get out of me?can you explain the point of this question? It stood out upon reread. Like trying to give the appearance of scumhunting/asking serious questions.
@Skip: If you had to, gun to your head, vote for one of me, Seprix, and Mail-mi right now, who would you vote for and why?
I wanted to ask something specific of someone I didn't have any read on, picked you because you were online and talking with me and Seprix. Seprix and I were both voting for each other and had had an exchange that seemed like it could generate some reads, and you'd voted for chairs like 1 minute after he voted for Mail-mi.
It was kind of a random question, but it got something out of you, which was the purpose.
Why does that question stand out to you specifically?
I dont see how it would help you determine much of anything from whatever my answer might be. It's asking a question for the sake of not wanting to look like you're not asking questions. What did it get out of me?can you explain the point of this question? It stood out upon reread. Like trying to give the appearance of scumhunting/asking serious questions.
@Skip: If you had to, gun to your head, vote for one of me, Seprix, and Mail-mi right now, who would you vote for and why?
I wanted to ask something specific of someone I didn't have any read on, picked you because you were online and talking with me and Seprix. Seprix and I were both voting for each other and had had an exchange that seemed like it could generate some reads, and you'd voted for chairs like 1 minute after he voted for Mail-mi.
It was kind of a random question, but it got something out of you, which was the purpose.
Why does that question stand out to you specifically?
It's asking a question for the sake of not wanting to look like you're not asking questions. What did it get out of me?
I think you're possibly the type of person who may feel like you're not participating enough if you know you're really scum.It's asking a question for the sake of not wanting to look like you're not asking questions. What did it get out of me?
Do you think I looked like I wasn't participating at that point in the game?
So to boil down your explanation: you wanted to see what I thought of you and seprix?
alright, I guess. Sounds weak, thoughSo to boil down your explanation: you wanted to see what I thought of you and seprix?
Not really. I mean that's what I was really asking but I asked because I wanted to get a read on you and see what your thought process was like, and me and Seprix had had the most solid interaction at that point.
Is it just me or does this ww/teproc fight seem a tad scum vs. scum?
I did know it was L-1.
I appreciate all the reactions.
vote: Teproc. Sorry to worry you, WW, I just wanted to see what Teproc would do to an unannounced L-1 :)
how do you know we'll know for sure after lynching only one of them? Do you know neither is scum?Is it just me or does this ww/teproc fight seem a tad scum vs. scum?
The only way to know for sure is to lynch one of them.
I don't think the mail-mi/Teproc scumteam line of reasoning makes much sense either (not only for the obvious reasons), but I doubt WW meant much by it. As a reminder : thinking about scumteams on day 1 is almost always counterproductive.
It's something Jimmmm pointed out once: a lot of the time, when scum has a scumpartners in a big argument, etc., they make comments like "town v. town" or "same alignment" or something to that effect.
I don't think the mail-mi/Teproc scumteam line of reasoning makes much sense either (not only for the obvious reasons), but I doubt WW meant much by it. As a reminder : thinking about scumteams on day 1 is almost always counterproductive.
It's something Jimmmm pointed out once: a lot of the time, when scum has a scumpartners in a big argument, etc., they make comments like "town v. town" or "same alignment" or something to that effect.
I buy this, actually. Teproc and mail-mi are probably either both town or both scum.
Or one could be town and one could be scum. There is no real information to be gleaned here.
Or one could be town and one could be scum. There is no real information to be gleaned here.
Why not?
Could someone just use <b> on a vote or something so we can jump on the scumslip, please?
Also, semi-v/la for the weekend starting in ~30 minutes from this post.
Could someone just use <b> on a vote or something so we can jump on the scumslip, please?
Also, semi-v/la for the weekend starting in ~30 minutes from this post.
I thought your L-1 thingie somehow convinced you that I was scum ?
ADK : what's your read on WW ?
Mmm I'm considering. Are you maintaining your position that he's scummy?
Suppose you couldn't lynch WW and were forced to pick someone else. Who would that be?
I'm not talking about two people arguing, I'm talking about mail-mi commenting on Teproc and WW and how there's a decent argument that that post is more likely to come from scum.
And why are you so certain that there's no information to be gained from Teproc and WW's argument?
God, no matter how I look at it, pink is a bad font color for the forum with the theme I'm using.
I am offended that you think I cannot read pink against white
Suppose you couldn't lynch WW and were forced to pick someone else. Who would that be?
My first instinct is skip, but I don't like lynching newbies on their first day, so I'd go with Awaclus. Completely under the radar, hasn't said anything of substance I can remember, and I do seem to recall that scum!Awaclus tends to be in the background, though I'd have to check.
God, no matter how I look at it, pink is a bad font color for the forum with the theme I'm using.Pink is the best, unfortunately all the pink colours on here don't show up well unless they're in bold, and you shouldn't bold stuff unless you're the mod. All the best mods use pink text though.
In case anybody's having trouble reading it, that says "I'm going to get my cutie mark in Mafia busting!".
Well I promised a serious vote. vote: UoS. I still don't like the rvs justification, I don't like this question. It doesn't seem genuine. They're not the kinds of things I remember from your other games (although they were quite a while ago, and were heavy in theory talk). I think this is worth some exploration.It seems a bit odd I guess- could someone who's played with them before say if slightly odd is their usual meta or not?
Agree, also posting more than usual chairs is probably town!chairs. If chairs was scum, he could lurk as much as he wanted without attracting much suspicion. The post count isn't super-high, but enough to be very different to usual.I did know it was L-1.
I appreciate all the reactions.
vote: Teproc. Sorry to worry you, WW, I just wanted to see what Teproc would do to an unannounced L-1 :)
Town read on chairs.
Hm I always forget that this could be the case, this happened in M62 (Hearthstone)- e and Teproc spent most of it accusing each other of being scum, and they were the scumteam. I guess I can see the argument, but how often is it actually same alignment, rather than different alignment?I don't think the mail-mi/Teproc scumteam line of reasoning makes much sense either (not only for the obvious reasons), but I doubt WW meant much by it. As a reminder : thinking about scumteams on day 1 is almost always counterproductive.
It's something Jimmmm pointed out once: a lot of the time, when scum has a scumpartners in a big argument, etc., they make comments like "town v. town" or "same alignment" or something to that effect.
I buy this, actually. Teproc and mail-mi are probably either both town or both scum.
I guess it's something you've done as both, I seem to think you've been lurky D1 more often as town.Suppose you couldn't lynch WW and were forced to pick someone else. Who would that be?
My first instinct is skip, but I don't like lynching newbies on their first day, so I'd go with Awaclus. Completely under the radar, hasn't said anything of substance I can remember, and I do seem to recall that scum!Awaclus tends to be in the background, though I'd have to check.
Water is wet. Now I've said something of a substance you probably remember. :P
I'm in the background because of midsummer and other ongoing games. I don't think it's typical for me to lurk a lot as either alignment, but I've done it more as town.
(...) and you shouldn't bold stuff unless you're the mod.
Awesome, hot pink is the best colour.(...) and you shouldn't bold stuff unless you're the mod.
You can use bold text if you want, as long as it's different enough from this.
I have been lurking indeed; yesterday was busy. I should be on more today to answer any questions.?
No that was not a hedge defense of skip, I just wanted to see what ADK's reasoning is.
I think Teproc and WW are of the same alignment. Whether that's town or scum, I don't know.
skip / UoS scumteam, calling it now.
I think you're possibly the type of person who may feel like you're not participating enough if you know you're really scum.
alright, I guess. Sounds weak, thoughSo to boil down your explanation: you wanted to see what I thought of you and seprix?
Not really. I mean that's what I was really asking but I asked because I wanted to get a read on you and see what your thought process was like, and me and Seprix had had the most solid interaction at that point.
Hi Mail-mi.
What are your thoughts on WW in the WW-Teproc argument?
I didn't come from a place of assuming you're scum. I came from a place of suspecting you're scum. I came from that place upon rereading your question to me. If you would have supplied a good explanation (which as you yourself say in the quoted post was something I could reasonably assume wouldn't happen) I would have been less suspecting (although I was assuming you wouldn't explain it well). I didn't particularly suspect you before I re-read that post of yours, if that's what you're insinuating.skip / UoS scumteam, calling it now.
Eh, looks like town vs. town to me ;)I think you're possibly the type of person who may feel like you're not participating enough if you know you're really scum.alright, I guess. Sounds weak, thoughSo to boil down your explanation: you wanted to see what I thought of you and seprix?
Not really. I mean that's what I was really asking but I asked because I wanted to get a read on you and see what your thought process was like, and me and Seprix had had the most solid interaction at that point.
In all seriousness, Skip, this seems like you're coming from a place of assuming I'm scum first and looking for reasons, rather than reading my posts and evaluating.
I don't know what kind of brilliant grand plan you were expecting me to have behind my question but it reads like you were going to find me scummy for this regardless of what I said. And your logic is that as scum I would want to be active (fair enough), but with no consideration to whether I'd ask the same question as town. You're starting with your conclusion in mind. If you're town, you should be careful of this.
What's your read on A Drowned Kernel?
Sorry, I'm planning a stream, and have been busy with college. I don't have much to say in all honesty at the moment. Mail-mi still seems like a good lynch.
Sorry, I'm planning a stream, and have been busy with college. I don't have much to say in all honesty at the moment. Mail-mi still seems like a good lynch.
Do you have any opinions on a pacovf lynch?
I will give some thoughts tonight.When is this happening? What's pacovf's time zone situation?
What are your thoughts on WW in the WW-Teproc argument?
Nullish/scummy. I think Teproc comes out as more scummy, but I can definitely see WW being scum in this situation.
We need more activity here. vote: pacovf, he hasn't received much scrutiny and has been doing a good job of blending in.
I will give some thoughts tonight.When is this happening? What's pacovf's time zone situation?
Ok I changed my mind. Even though I want to see WW lynched day 1 sometime I don't think this is the right game for it.I'm not seeing the mail-mi lynch reasons either, what's the actual case? Unless the case is something liek "he's playing differently to how he does as town" (which I wouldn't know), then seems like a weak case to me.
I havn't thought to much about mail-mi for some reason.
everyone seems to say hes scummy but I'm not sure if I just haven't been paying enough attention or not but it hasn't stuck out to me much yet.
Vote: awaclus for now. more of a placeholder vote.
As for right now, I like chairs' argument for teproc. vote: teprocalso, chairs doesn't even like chairs' argument for teproc.
As for right now, I like chairs' argument for teproc. vote: teprocalso, chairs doesn't even like chairs' argument for teproc.
Sorry I've been gone, I just got an internship where I get to dress up as an alien and shoot little children with fake guns, so that's taken up a lot of my time. I'll be here later today, so ask questions and I'll get to answering them.
ooo can I get my cutie mark in craziness?
Pink is my colour, stop stealing it. :(
ooo can I get my cutie mark in craziness?Pink is my colour, stop stealing it :(
I buy this, actually. Teproc and mail-mi are probably either both town or both scum.
See, this is the kind of discussion that, while theoretically interesting, doesn't really get us anywhere right now.
I guess I can do a mail-mi lynch, though I'm not sure how much I'm being influenced by everyone else, or how bad it is if that's what's happening.I really don't like this. Mail-mi has 3 votes, we have a week left, the case on Mail-mi is pretty thin.
And I didn't read mail-mi's post as a defense, more of a question posed to adk to see what explanation would be given.And he was explicitly not finding Mail-mi scummy over his RVS voting and unvoting at the time.
Meh im not feeling the ww wagon, though I should probably cast a real vote sooner rather than later. I'll decide today sometime.
Awaclus and WW, you guys haven't weighed in on the Mail-mi wagon. What do you think of it?
It's a strong case. I don't like lynching new players on day 1 though. I'm not saying it's a universal rule or anything, just that I don't like it and would rather avoid it.
Also WW is scum, probably, so let's just lynch him.
I will do a reread in the somewhat near future, see if I have anything more productive to say.
unvote
Hydrad seems like good old Hydrad.
I think I like vote: skip wooznum at the moment.
Why? He doesn't seem particularly scummy or townie to me right now.
I think Teproc and WW are of the same alignment. Whether that's town or scum, I don't know.
And for what it's worth, if only one of Teproc/WW is scum, i think it would be Teproc, for the same reason as chairs.
Also, I think chairs is town and won't lynch him today.
As for right now, I like chairs' argument for teproc. vote: teproc
Nullish/scummy. I think Teproc comes out as more scummy, but I can definitely see WW being scum in this situation.
Right but the case isn't much more than that, it's about him hedging and having content-light votes... in other words, you want to lynch him for what he does every game. Which, granted, it fits scum!mail-mi too, so you have a chance of hitting scum, but I tend to think mail-mi is someone you catch with interactions, otherwise you just lynch him every game since his scum meta is basically indistinguishable from his town meta.
ooo can I get my cutie mark in craziness?
I guess I can do a mail-mi lynch, though I'm not sure how much I'm being influenced by everyone else, or how bad it is if that's what's happening.I really don't like this. Mail-mi has 3 votes, we have a week left, the case on Mail-mi is pretty thin.
Previously Skip said,And I didn't read mail-mi's post as a defense, more of a question posed to adk to see what explanation would be given.And he was explicitly not finding Mail-mi scummy over his RVS voting and unvoting at the time.
So being okay with the Mail-mi lynch is because of Mail-mi voting teproc (who Skip has a couple of times found scummy) based on Chair's trap, which Chairs isn't so behind anymore. And because 3 other people are voting Mail-mi.
So maybe it's newbtown sheeping, but when it comes to questioning me or not getting on the WW wagon Skip has shown an admirable lack of sheeping. And in his post where he lends support to the Mail-mi wagon (without voting) he lays the groundwork for the "maybe I'm just newbtown being influenced" defense. But he doesn't question it, and he was absolutely questioning the rest of us back withMeh im not feeling the ww wagon, though I should probably cast a real vote sooner rather than later. I'll decide today sometime.
So yeah, Vote: Skip
I wasn't saying we should lynch him now, I was expressing my opinion on lynching him, due to the fact that he was the leading wagon at the time. And the case isn't super thick, I think my post conveys that. Responses to the rest will followI guess I can do a mail-mi lynch, though I'm not sure how much I'm being influenced by everyone else, or how bad it is if that's what's happening.I really don't like this. Mail-mi has 3 votes, we have a week left, the case on Mail-mi is pretty thin.
I've become less sure of how to evaluate mail-mi's alleged defense of me since I made that comment; his comments on the ww/teproc fight struck me as slightly strange after re-read (I only said teproc was scummy a long while ago before that fight of his, btw. It was because I expected him to be posting more, which he started doing.). And yes, I would definitely call this at least partial sheeping. I really didn't like the ww wagon so I didn't get on board. I was nervous about you and I wanted to see you under pressure but it doesn't seem like people are interested. I did those things on my own, but that doesn't mean I can't go with the flow if it's about something I'm not opposed to. I don't see any inconsistency here.
Previously Skip said,And I didn't read mail-mi's post as a defense, more of a question posed to adk to see what explanation would be given.And he was explicitly not finding Mail-mi scummy over his RVS voting and unvoting at the time.
So being okay with the Mail-mi lynch is because of Mail-mi voting teproc (who Skip has a couple of times found scummy) based on Chair's trap, which Chairs isn't so behind anymore. And because 3 other people are voting Mail-mi.
So maybe it's newbtown sheeping, but when it comes to questioning me or not getting on the WW wagon Skip has shown an admirable lack of sheeping. And in his post where he lends support to the Mail-mi wagon (without voting) he lays the groundwork for the "maybe I'm just newbtown being influenced" defense. But he doesn't question it, and he was absolutely questioning the rest of us back withMeh im not feeling the ww wagon, though I should probably cast a real vote sooner rather than later. I'll decide today sometime.
So yeah, Vote: Skip
@Skip: if WW and Teproc are both town, do you think that makes Mail-mi more likely or less likely to be scum? (Pretend we have flips on both WW and Teproc and know 100% that they are town.)more or less likely than what? There's more than one other scenario.
It's not about changing his opinion (that's fine), it's about being all independent-minded one day and going with the flow into lackadaisically supporting a lynch he has no strong opinion on the next.
If he had an opinion of his own that Mail-mi was scummy, I'd have expected him to say something.
@pacovf re: Awaclus being a similar case to mail-mi. That's a good point, though I think Awaclus is much more likely to flip scum. But yeah, he's a meh day 1 lynch for the same reasons as mail-mi... and you'll notice he's not my preferred one.
UoS just legitimately used "lackadaisically" in a sentence. Keep this in mind when deciding the MVP for this game silver.
As for right now, I like chairs' argument for teproc. vote: teprocalso, chairs doesn't even like chairs' argument for teproc.
Doesn't mean I don't.
Sorry I've been gone, I just got an internship where I get to dress up as an alien and shoot little children with fake guns, so that's taken up a lot of my time. I'll be here later today, so ask questions and I'll get to answering them.
Some people asked me about my thoughts on arguments, I dunno. I guess there's nothing pressing. I'll begin reading now.
@Skip: if WW and Teproc are both town, do you think that makes Mail-mi more likely or less likely to be scum? (Pretend we have flips on both WW and Teproc and know 100% that they are town.)more or less likely than what? There's more than one other scenario.
Hey WW, why Awaclus over Mail-mi?
Hey WW, why Awaclus over Mail-mi?
Why Mail-Mi over Awaclus?
Hey WW, why Awaclus over Mail-mi?
Why Mail-Mi over Awaclus?
I'm opposed to lynching Mail-mi. But you voted Awaclus and haven't said much about him that I remember. Certainly both are lurking. I wanted to know what your thoughts were.
when he said it I didn't think much of it, bit it's been pointed out that it's a thing scum will often do if they're partner is in fight and I think I understand why that is. If they're both town on the other hand, im not sure. Maybe it would help if mail-mi explained why his opinion is that it's definitely not town vs scum@Skip: if WW and Teproc are both town, do you think that makes Mail-mi more likely or less likely to be scum? (Pretend we have flips on both WW and Teproc and know 100% that they are town.)more or less likely than what? There's more than one other scenario.
Um, I'm not sure how that's a confusing question. But rather than go around in circles on it, let's try it this way instead:
Have you given much thought to Mail-mi's comment that WW and Teproc are the same alignment, and how does it influence your opinion on Mail-mi, in your own words. Just talk out all your thoughts here. If you haven't thought about it, just say that and we'll move on, no need to decide on opinions where you have none about this.
Hey WW, why Awaclus over Mail-mi?
Why Mail-Mi over Awaclus?
I'm opposed to lynching Mail-mi. But you voted Awaclus and haven't said much about him that I remember. Certainly both are lurking. I wanted to know what your thoughts were.
So then it's not Mail-Mi over Awaclus. Come vote Awaclus, because wagons are cool!
Frankly, the people on WW should reevaluate their position. Have you noticed how hard it is to get any other wagon going? If WW was scum, mafia players would be trying to get an alternative wagon going. So, unless you believe I am scum and doing exactly that, you should be convinced that WW is town.
I actually think Mail-mi is town largely because of how much half-assed support his wagon seems to have.
I actually think Mail-mi is town largely because of how much half-assed support his wagon seems to have.
Just reread this. This only makes sense if you think that the half-assed support comes from scum, right? Who would that be?
I could probably vote WW.
I could probably vote WW.
I could probably vote WW.
Weren't you the one that was fake-voting WW to get a Teproc wagon started? Now you want to real-vote WW? What changed?
I could probably vote WW.
Weren't you the one that was fake-voting WW to get a Teproc wagon started? Now you want to real-vote WW? What changed?
^Didn't fall for the bait. Obvscum.
Oh hey. What do you think of Awaclus?I'm going to answer, since I've been lurky. Seems like a better option than the other wagons, I'm really not seeing the mail-mi wagon. Vote: Awaclus.
Guh, I biffed my last post's aesthetic look. I'm pretty bummed.You also didn't state an opinion about me.
Oh hey. What do you think of Awaclus?
Guh, I biffed my last post's aesthetic look. I'm pretty bummed.You also didn't state an opinion about me.
That's a very safe reads list. It would seem scummy in general. From Seprix it's just kind of.. Seprixy.
PPEs
I could probably vote WW.
Weren't you the one that was fake-voting WW to get a Teproc wagon started? Now you want to real-vote WW? What changed?
^Didn't fall for the bait. Obvscum.
Who didn't fall for what bait and who is obvscum ?
I could probably vote WW.
Weren't you the one that was fake-voting WW to get a Teproc wagon started? Now you want to real-vote WW? What changed?
^Didn't fall for the bait. Obvscum.
Who didn't fall for what bait and who is obvscum ?
This was a serious question by the way, I didn't get that post.
I agree, this game feels weird. Mainly because I'm not high on any scum list, that's a new experience.
this whole game just feels weird though.
pacovf and UoG have day 1 passes in my book though.
Oi I'm still here. Sorry I've been posting so little.
I'm find it interesting that my placeholder vote on awaclus has suddenly become a wagon. Thats weird to me. Like I guess I'm still fine with an awaclus lynch but I'm not really sure why others are fine with it suddenly.
this whole game just feels weird though.
pacovf and UoG have day 1 passes in my book though.
I agree, this game feels weird. Mainly because I'm not high on any scum list, that's a new experience.
this whole game just feels weird though.
pacovf and UoG have day 1 passes in my book though.
Wait a second. Joseph, you do know you're an IC, right?Yes.
Lynching an IC, seems scummy to me.I agree, this game feels weird. Mainly because I'm not high on any scum list, that's a new experience.
this whole game just feels weird though.
pacovf and UoG have day 1 passes in my book though.
We can lynch you if you'd like. :)
This game is a bit slow, is all. But do we really want to rush everything?
No need to rush, we still have 5 days. Although I'm away most of the next 2.
This game is a bit slow, is all. But do we really want to rush everything?
This game is a bit slow, is all. But do we really want to rush everything?
You do know what an IC is, right?
I agree, we aren't even going to be in the usual scenario of wanting to lynch me, me claiming with a few hours to go, and everyone voting someone else, like in so many games I've been in.This game is a bit slow, is all. But do we really want to rush everything?
No. That's why people have to post more. So that we don't end up rushing everything during the last 10 hours.
Probably.You do know what an IC is, right?
Yes. He's just drunk with towniness.
I buy this, actually. Teproc and mail-mi are probably either both town or both scum.
Hey ADK, so I get why if Teproc flips scum that makes Mail-mi likely scum, and why if Mail-mi flips scum that could make Teproc/WW more likely to be scum, but if Mail-mi or Teproc flip town, why does that make the other more likely town?
Okay then let's see.
Vote: Awaclus
A Drowned Kernel
While initially thinking ADK as town, he has recently disappeared, and well, it looks like he just posted his 'daily quota' and is now watching the squabble. Scum
He's a lurker.True, but that's not a scum tell, that's a general Awaclus tell.
He's a lurker.True, but that's not a scum tell, that's a general Awaclus tell.
It's not an easy lynch if there's resistance!
It's not an easy lynch if there's resistance!
Still a safe vote. Scum cares less about pushing mislynches super hard than about appearing active and towny.
It's not an easy lynch if there's resistance!
Still a safe vote. Scum cares less about pushing mislynches super hard than about appearing active and towny.
So what's an unsafe vote?
It's not an easy lynch if there's resistance!
Still a safe vote. Scum cares less about pushing mislynches super hard than about appearing active and towny.
So what's an unsafe vote?
L-1?
In other news, Awaclus has a quickly growing wagon; neglects to respond. More at 11.
In other news, Awaclus has a quickly growing wagon; neglects to respond. More at 11.
Perhaps he is not online at the moment.
In other news, Awaclus has a quickly growing wagon; neglects to respond. More at 11.
Perhaps he is not online at the moment.
Or the last couple days of moments.
In other news, Awaclus has a quickly growing wagon; neglects to respond. More at 11.
In other news, Awaclus has a quickly growing wagon; neglects to respond. More at 11.
I've responded to it already.
Apparently, a wagon starts when one man votes for you. :)
Can we just vote: awaclus and get rolling? I want to see what N1's NK will be already so we can work with it D2.
Can we just vote: awaclus and get rolling? I want to see what N1's NK will be already so we can work with it D2.
So you are not interested in D1's flip?
I feel bad for thinking this (because it might encourage groupthink and dissuade people from carrying out their reads) but chairs feels a bit scummy for me right now. Like, enough for me to change my vote from mail-mi.
vote: Chairs
Can we just vote: awaclus and get rolling? I want to perform N1's NK already
Can we just vote: awaclus and get rolling? I want to perform N1's NK already
Vote: chairs
Can we just vote: awaclus and get rolling? I want to perform N1's NK already
Vote: chairs
Why ?
If you're so against groupthink, why are you voting for the leading wagon ?
If you're so against groupthink, why are you voting for the leading wagon ?
!? Chairs isn't the leading wagon.
@Awaclus : Do you want to be lynched ?
If you're so against groupthink, why are you voting for the leading wagon ?
!? Chairs isn't the leading wagon.
@Awaclus : Do you want to be lynched ?
Not particularly.
@Awaclus : Do you want to be lynched ?
Not particularly.
Could you please take the time to explain to us why you think chairs is scum then ?
@Awaclus : Do you want to be lynched ?
Not particularly.
Could you please take the time to explain to us why you think chairs is scum then ?
Well, I don't mind explaining it because it should be obvious anyway, but OTOH that also makes the explanation sort of pointless.
@Awaclus : Do you want to be lynched ?
Not particularly.
Could you please take the time to explain to us why you think chairs is scum then ?
Well, I don't mind explaining it because it should be obvious anyway, but OTOH that also makes the explanation sort of pointless.
My vote on you is no longer random, for example.this kind of justifying a previous rvs, I don't like.
Again, PPE
I concur; I've actually only ever seen scum do this, I think.
unvote
Hydrad seems like good old Hydrad.
Is it just me or does this ww/teproc fight seem a tad scum vs. scum?
pacovf is doing a solid townie job. No idea what scum!pacovf looks like though, have we gotten that in a normal game yet ?
I've said it before, but I don't like the whole "wagons stagnating/wagons going too fast means X or Y" reasonings. I've seen fast wagons on scum, stagnating wagons on town, I've seen scum teams letting a wagon ramp up on their partner not daring to speak out against it in case it didn't work out and they got lynched against it... those are all things you can really only analyze after a flip, before it's kind of a crapshoot.
Yay a reread post I can get behind!
vote: seprix, you convinced me.
Off to read a scum!Awaclus game. Maybe a town one too, I'm really confused about his play here.
- can you explain exactly what it is from your scum meta which you fail to replicate as town? I've heard you saying that you're easily found at as scum a bunch of times, but never understood why.2) Well, I don't particularly try to replicate my scum meta when I'm town. :P Anyway, I always feel enormous pressure to make sense and explain everything as scum. Even in Blarnia Mafia where I somehow got away with it, I explained all of my votes and reads unless the reasons were very clear without an explanation. I obviously do not feel any pressure to explain anything at all when I'm town.
Can we just vote: awaclus and get rolling? I want to see what N1's NK will be already so we can work with it D2.This doesn't seem very good or towny. Vote: chairs , because this is scummier than anything Awaclus has done /not done.
Since we're doing the would-not-lynch list thing, mine is woefully short:
When I read this, I got to thinking: he seems hyper aware of this, and in this game it looks to me (and this is where I need input from people who've actually played with him a bunch rather than skimmed some games) that he's been explaining and defending himself even less than usual.
I'm postulating that he's overcompensating for his known scumtell.
Thoughts?
Awaclus in Futuramafia* (VT)I guess that Awaclus is more active as scum, so possibly this is a town tell.
*P.S. : Ash, if you're reading this, the link for Futuramafia in the Stats page goes to Fish Mafia
This is still the "Joseph being scummy" run of games, and Awaclus gets on that wagon early. Tunnels him all day 1, not very active, though more than he his in this current game. Then Joseph claims Tracker, and he switches to Hydrad and defends the idea of leaving Joseph alive to verify his claim. He gets pretty active then, as deadline is nearing.
Then he's not very active the rest of the game, but his posts always have content.
Meh. Neither of these look anything like what he's doing now. So I'm guessing Awaclus is trying something new, and I don't know why he'd do that (or this specific brand of new) as town.
Since we're doing the would-not-lynch list thing, mine is woefully short:
When I read this, I got to thinking: he seems hyper aware of this, and in this game it looks to me (and this is where I need input from people who've actually played with him a bunch rather than skimmed some games) that he's been explaining and defending himself even less than usual.
I'm postulating that he's overcompensating for his known scumtell.
Thoughts?
I think it's pretty likely, actually. I can hammer if you'd like, I'm down for an Awaclus lynch.
Since we're doing the would-not-lynch list thing, mine is woefully short:
When I read this, I got to thinking: he seems hyper aware of this, and in this game it looks to me (and this is where I need input from people who've actually played with him a bunch rather than skimmed some games) that he's been explaining and defending himself even less than usual.
I'm postulating that he's overcompensating for his known scumtell.
Thoughts?
I think it's pretty likely, actually. I can hammer if you'd like, I'm down for an Awaclus lynch.
Definitely do not hammer any time soon. I think reaching a lynch before the weekend would be nice, but it's Tuesday. We need reactions and positions from people so we have something to go on tomorrow.
Since we're doing the would-not-lynch list thing, mine is woefully short:
When I read this, I got to thinking: he seems hyper aware of this, and in this game it looks to me (and this is where I need input from people who've actually played with him a bunch rather than skimmed some games) that he's been explaining and defending himself even less than usual.
I'm postulating that he's overcompensating for his known scumtell.
Thoughts?
I think it's pretty likely, actually. I can hammer if you'd like, I'm down for an Awaclus lynch.
Definitely do not hammer any time soon. I think reaching a lynch before the weekend would be nice, but it's Tuesday. We need reactions and positions from people so we have something to go on tomorrow.
We have lots. There's no rush either, but I'd be fine with us reaching a lynch today as well.I'd be fine with reaching a lynch today, but I really want Hydrad and WW to chime in on what I'm saying about Awaclus first. Those shouldn't be 0 accountability votes if he flips town. ADK and Mail-mi commenting on Awaclus would be nice too.
This is where I point that if people want to get a WW wagon going, I'd be glad to switch back. I think he and Awaclus have similar chances of flipping scum, but WW is a more productive lynch in terms of interactions.
@pacovf : Fine, but let's not get to deadline, that's never a good idea.
1) town!Awaclus gets very indignant when he has a wagon on him, and continually talks about how not scum he's been acting.
Can we just vote: awaclus and get rolling? I want to see what N1's NK will be already so we can work with it D2.This doesn't seem very good or towny. Vote: chairs , because this is scummier than anything Awaclus has done /not done.
PPE: Lots
1) town!Awaclus gets very indignant when he has a wagon on him, and continually talks about how not scum he's been acting.
This is true. Usually when I'm town, I have like 29384723984723 town tells that everyone is either not noticing or choosing to ignore on purpose, which is why I have to point them out. In this game, I haven't posted much because a lot of stuff has been going on IRL and other games, and that's why there aren't that many things that I can point out. The only notable thing is that I don't lurk as scum, but there's the problem that I don't usually lurk as town either.
@silver : Joseph voted chairs in this post.
1) town!Awaclus gets very indignant when he has a wagon on him, and continually talks about how not scum he's been acting.
This is true. Usually when I'm town, I have like 29384723984723 town tells that everyone is either not noticing or choosing to ignore on purpose, which is why I have to point them out. In this game, I haven't posted much because a lot of stuff has been going on IRL and other games, and that's why there aren't that many things that I can point out. The only notable thing is that I don't lurk as scum, but there's the problem that I don't usually lurk as town either.
Didn't you point out earlier this game that you do lurk?
Hey Awalcus,
Let's say Joe and chairs come back to you and Seprix hammers (or whatever other scenario that leads to you being lynched you think is most probable).
What do you think of the wagon on you?
I think it looks like people are there to pressure me to post more rather than because they actually want to lynch me, which is pro-town, but not hard to do as scum. Chairs was scummy but he's no longer on my wagon.
I think it looks like people are there to pressure me to post more rather than because they actually want to lynch me, which is pro-town, but not hard to do as scum. Chairs was scummy but he's no longer on my wagon.
Okay, so who's scum off-wagon?
Awaclus isn't a terrible lynch but he's not my favorite.
He tends to be pretty passive regardless of alignment. Which is a bad way to play but unfortunately doesn't indicate much about his alignment here.
He tends to be pretty passive regardless of alignment. Which is a bad way to play but unfortunately doesn't indicate much about his alignment here.
He tends to be pretty passive regardless of alignment. Which is a bad way to play but unfortunately doesn't indicate much about his alignment here.
I don't tend to be passive.
He tends to be pretty passive regardless of alignment. Which is a bad way to play but unfortunately doesn't indicate much about his alignment here.
So you think his play here is no more or less passive than his other games?
Deliberately trying to be scummy is not pro-town.
If you are town, trying to be scummy allows scum to set up an easy mislynch, and it distracts players who would like to win from more productive scumhunting.
I'm not going to be buying "too scummy to be scum" this game, no matter how much setup it has. Play like this sets scum up to have a much easier game. It could be coming from scum, or bad town, but either way it hurts town. Scum should not be allowed to get away with being this openly anti-town. Town should care about trying to win the game.
I'm reducing the list of people I'm willing to lynch today to Chairs, Awalcus, and WW. Any other lurker has the potential to actually help us, but I think we're legitimately better off without Awalcus or Chairs even if they are town if this is how they are going to play.
I would dayvig them both if I could.
PPE: More than normal? And I'm sorry, but I don't fell like partying when there's work to be done.
I don't tend to be passive.
So it's only when you're trying to avoid your normal scumtells?
Deliberately trying to be scummy is not pro-town.
If you are town, trying to be scummy allows scum to set up an easy mislynch, and it distracts players who would like to win from more productive scumhunting.
I'm not going to be buying "too scummy to be scum" this game, no matter how much setup it has. Play like this sets scum up to have a much easier game. It could be coming from scum, or bad town, but either way it hurts town. Scum should not be allowed to get away with being this openly anti-town. Town should care about trying to win the game.
I'm reducing the list of people I'm willing to lynch today to Chairs, Awalcus, and WW. Any other lurker has the potential to actually help us, but I think we're legitimately better off without Awalcus or Chairs even if they are town if this is how they are going to play.
I would dayvig them both if I could.
PPE: More than normal? And I'm sorry, but I don't fell like partying when there's work to be done.
Less than normal if anything.
So you're being less passive than normal?
It seems like you're just disagreeing with what is said against you without bothering to either actually defend the point or even read it, since you're contradicting yourself needlessly. This is what I mean by saying I think you are trying to be more uninvolved and less wordy and defensive than normal, over-correcting for your previous scumtells.
Why don't you explain why I should vote for chairs over you, even if it's obvious (I'm certainly open to it.)
You've said chairs is scum multiple times. Make your case.
I find UmbrageOfSnow's avatar to be fitting. I hope he's writing everything down.
You've said chairs is scum multiple times. Make your case.
The case is that he's scum.
Again, am I going to lynch or not? It's looking worse and worse for Awaclus.
Again, I haven't had the time to reread Awaclus, but while UoS is really persuasive, the case against Awaclus is still just that he is lurking. Lurker lynches are bad in D1, because if he flips town, we have next to nothing. I would totally be for an Awaclus lynch for D2 (assuming nothing better comes up from the flips), because he has earned it many times over, but I don't think I want to lynch him today.
Again, I haven't had the time to reread Awaclus, but while UoS is really persuasive, the case against Awaclus is still just that he is lurking. Lurker lynches are bad in D1, because if he flips town, we have next to nothing. I would totally be for an Awaclus lynch for D2 (assuming nothing better comes up from the flips), because he has earned it many times over, but I don't think I want to lynch him today.
Again, I haven't had the time to reread Awaclus, but while UoS is really persuasive, the case against Awaclus is still just that he is lurking. Lurker lynches are bad in D1, because if he flips town, we have next to nothing. I would totally be for an Awaclus lynch for D2 (assuming nothing better comes up from the flips), because he has earned it many times over, but I don't think I want to lynch him today.
Again, I haven't had the time to reread Awaclus, but while UoS is really persuasive, the case against Awaclus is still just that he is lurking. Lurker lynches are bad in D1, because if he flips town, we have next to nothing. I would totally be for an Awaclus lynch for D2 (assuming nothing better comes up from the flips), because he has earned it many times over, but I don't think I want to lynch him today.
My case is not about lurking!
It's about meta!
And we have more interactions with Awaclus than we do with Mail-mi, which is where your vote is parked right now.
Again, I haven't had the time to reread Awaclus, but while UoS is really persuasive, the case against Awaclus is still just that he is lurking. Lurker lynches are bad in D1, because if he flips town, we have next to nothing. I would totally be for an Awaclus lynch for D2 (assuming nothing better comes up from the flips), because he has earned it many times over, but I don't think I want to lynch him today.
You've said chairs is scum multiple times. Make your case.
The case is that he's scum.
Okay I think this bears repeating one more time and then I'm shutting up about it.
If you are town, you are giving scum a free mislynch. That is bad for town. After you flip, you are giving town nothing to look at to get your scumreads lynched tomorrow (and I promise I look at dead players' words). This is bad for town assuming you have any reads at all. Stop doing things to help the other team win.
It's also good for you if you're scum because you don't say much that could allow us to draw many associations with your partners now that you suspect you're getting lynched.
So I don't think you're really so committed to helping the other team win. I think you are scum, and this is you doubling down on your strategy to not get lynched. I don't even really think that's best play from scum, but I think it makes sense from a scum mindset. You don't think I'm budging, so you're going for an appeal to audacity hoping the rest of town won't lynch you if you're just. that. unbelievably. stubborn.
And if I made the case, you'd lynch me because that's a scum tell.
Also Awaclus is not just lurking, he's deliberately playing anti-town (see his consistent refusal to say anything of substance about anything).
And if I made the case, you'd lynch me because that's a scum tell.
???
And if I made the case, you'd lynch me because that's a scum tell.
???
You've been reading my past games, you should know that I have never ever made a single case on anyone as town, but I do feel enormous pressure to justify my votes as scum.
Actually, I think Awaclus is trying hard to be stubborn and unhelpful because that's his town meta.
I'm also not giving scum a free mislynch because we're not lynching me today.
So... that means you'll never, ever make a case as town ? Enjoy the mislynches man.
I'm also not giving scum a free mislynch because we're not lynching me today.
If you're going to claim, go ahead. I mean you're free to wait L-1 and intent to hammer, but at this point it's a formality.
Wow yeah I could definitely lynch awaclus today. Scum read is skyrocketing.
Wow yeah I could definitely lynch awaclus today. Scum read is skyrocketing.
Why did the scum read skyrocket as soon as I started actually being towny?
Why am I surprised that this makes no sense ? I should expect that by now.
Wow yeah I could definitely lynch awaclus today. Scum read is skyrocketing.
Why did the scum read skyrocket as soon as I started actually being towny?
And if I made the case, you'd lynch me because that's a scum tell.
???
You've been reading my past games, you should know that I have never ever made a single case on anyone as town, but I do feel enormous pressure to justify my votes as scum.
Didn't Hydrad start this whole thing by throwing his vote on Awaclus as a placeholder?
I mean I think we're done here. The only thing he's ever talked about in this game is himself and I refuse to believe that any town player would manage to do that.
I'm also not giving scum a free mislynch because we're not lynching me today.
If you're going to claim, go ahead. I mean you're free to wait L-1 and intent to hammer, but at this point it's a formality.
VT.
I find Seprix's actions here a little questionable.
Didn't Hydrad start this whole thing by throwing his vote on Awaclus as a placeholder?
Oi I'm still here. Sorry I've been posting so little.
I'm find it interesting that my placeholder vote on awaclus has suddenly become a wagon. Thats weird to me. Like I guess I'm still fine with an awaclus lynch but I'm not really sure why others are fine with it suddenly.
this whole game just feels weird though.
pacovf and UoG have day 1 passes in my book though.
I haven't had time to talk about anythingelsewith this wagon on me.
I guess we can wait for Hydrad.
@WW : In what way ?
I find Seprix's actions here a little questionable.
I guess we can wait for Hydrad.
@WW : In what way ?
The way he voted for Awaclus (making a point to point out how moved he was to do so), though that's a little normal for Seprix.
Then the .. apprehension? about the lynch with the "didn't this whole thing get started..." comment.
I find Seprix's actions here a little questionable.
Cool. :) I guess an Awaclus/WW scumteam isn't unreasonable.
I find Seprix's actions here a little questionable.
Cool. :) I guess an Awaclus/WW scumteam isn't unreasonable.
Yeah I'm surprised by the VT claim too, and Seprix's play around this is a bit weird, as is Pacovf's and ADK's.
I find Seprix's actions here a little questionable.
Cool. :) I guess an Awaclus/WW scumteam isn't unreasonable.
If Awaclus flips scum I'm putting on my IC flag and strutting it around like Freddy Mercury performing live.
I do agree with WW that Seprix is pretty scummy here, though. I could lynch him if nobody else wants to lynch chairs.
I don't think scum!Awaclus means town!WW. I do think town!Awaclus heavily implies scum!WW.
I don't think scum!Awaclus means town!WW. I do think town!Awaclus heavily implies scum!WW.
I find Seprix's actions here a little questionable.
Cool. :) I guess an Awaclus/WW scumteam isn't unreasonable.
If Awaclus flips scum I'm putting on my IC flag and strutting it around like Freddy Mercury performing live.
When I flip town, are you going to put on your confirmed scum flag and strut it around the same way, too?
Why are we doing Awaclus? Also, he's fakeclaimed VT as a PR before, so it's an option to consider.
PPE:4 (I think, on phone so counting is harder)
Why are we doing Awaclus? Also, he's fakeclaimed VT as a PR before, so it's an option to consider.
PPE:4 (I think, on phone so counting is harder)
I don't think scum!Awaclus means town!WW. I do think town!Awaclus heavily implies scum!WW.
Hi I'm Chairs and I like to get things backwards.
I don't think scum!Awaclus means town!WW. I do think town!Awaclus heavily implies scum!WW.
Hi I'm Chairs and I like to get things backwards.
Of course he does, he's scum.
Why are we doing Awaclus? Also, he's fakeclaimed VT as a PR before, so it's an option to consider.
PPE:4 (I think, on phone so counting is harder)
Read through my exchanges with him today and tell me how we can justify not lynching him.
I don't think scum!Awaclus means town!WW. I do think town!Awaclus heavily implies scum!WW.
Hi I'm Chairs and I like to get things backwards.
Of course he does, he's scum.
LEt's entertain you for a second. Your perceived scumteam is what ? Chairs/WW and ?
I don't think scum!Awaclus means town!WW. I do think town!Awaclus heavily implies scum!WW.
I don't think scum!Awaclus means town!WW. I do think town!Awaclus heavily implies scum!WW.
This is kind of interesting. I'm wondering if Chairs is trying to goad me into getting off the Awaclus wagon to push a scum!me argument.
And, you know, what are your reads in general ? On the off chance that you're Morgrim!Awaclus, give us that at least.
This is absurd. @Awaclus, you dont want to tell us why you think chairs is scum. Can you tell us why you don't want to tell us why you think chairs is scum?
are there any reasons that don't assume your survival through day 1?And, you know, what are your reads in general ? On the off chance that you're Morgrim!Awaclus, give us that at least.
Awaclus - obvtown
Teproc - towny
Hydrad - null
Joseph - Innocent Child
Witherweaver - slightly suspicious
skip wooznum - null
A Drowned Kernel - slightly suspicious
Seprix - scummy
mail-mi - null
UmbrageOfSnow - towny
chairs - scummy
pacovf - townyThis is absurd. @Awaclus, you dont want to tell us why you think chairs is scum. Can you tell us why you don't want to tell us why you think chairs is scum?
Well, besides getting lynched for the scum tell, there's also the reason that I think people's reactions when they're being voted without an explanation outside of RVS can be extremely valuable. It's not working now because nobody's taking it my vote seriously so chairs isn't probably feeling a lot of pressure from it, but it has worked in the past. Also, later in the game, it can be beneficial for making NKs more difficult for scum — they don't know what's the reason why I'm voting for them or how convinced I actually am, and sometimes that information could be very important.
are there any reasons that don't assume your survival through day 1?
and at this point in the proceedings, after claiming vt, you don't think you're going to get lynched? (Side point: why did you say before that you were confident you weren't getting lynched today? I took that as softclaiming a PR. sorry I can't find the wuote right now)are there any reasons that don't assume your survival through day 1?
Can't think of any.
I'm also not giving scum a free mislynch because we're not lynching me today.here it is
(Side point: why did you say before that you were confident you weren't getting lynched today?
way to answer the sidepoint. You still think you wont get lynched?(Side point: why did you say before that you were confident you weren't getting lynched today?
Because I'm super towny.
I will do that tomorrow, only got phone access at the moment, which makes posting and rereading harder. 12-24 hours till I get to a proper computer.Why are we doing Awaclus? Also, he's fakeclaimed VT as a PR before, so it's an option to consider.
PPE:4 (I think, on phone so counting is harder)
Read through my exchanges with him today and tell me how we can justify not lynching him.
way to answer the sidepoint. You still think you wont get lynched?(Side point: why did you say before that you were confident you weren't getting lynched today?
Because I'm super towny.
way to answer the sidepoint. You still think you wont get lynched?(Side point: why did you say before that you were confident you weren't getting lynched today?
Because I'm super towny.
@Hydrad: I have to go soon and you seem to be on more when I'm gone, but when you come on tonight could you please talk about Awaclus?
1) Do you think he's being more or less defensive than normal?
2) Do you think he's being more or less lurky than normal?
3) Do you think he's being more or less reserved than normal?
4) What do you think of his response to pressure today?
5) Is your vote on him still a placeholder vote?
6) What do you think about Awaclus' interaction with Chairs?
7) If you agree with me that he's being more X than normal, what do you think of my idea that this is overcompensating for the scumtells he's been so happy to point out about himself in most of his games?
8) What do you think of his town tell?
9) What do you think of him pointing it out.
Sorry for the giant list of questions here, but I want to get your position nailed down before we lynch Awaclus, I want to lynch Awaclus, and I don't want to spend 3 days going back and forth on this stuff if we're not both on at once, which seems reasonably likely.
@awaclus, now can you tell us about chairs?
Vote: chairs
Vote: chairs
That's an interesting out-the-gate vote. Mind explaining why you think I'm scum?
I would've rather have seen them shoot not-the-IC, but I can understand the logic. You nix the UB getting any other Town powers, and you're eliminating one person from the lynch pool no matter what, so why not?
Vote: chairs
That's an interesting out-the-gate vote. Mind explaining why you think I'm scum?
I would've rather have seen them shoot not-the-IC, but I can understand the logic. You nix the UB getting any other Town powers, and you're eliminating one person from the lynch pool no matter what, so why not?
I misremembered you as being off-wagon, so now I'm reconsidering. But I don't see why you felt the need to analyze the NK when they killed the IC.
@UoS: why do you think scum would have shot you or Teproc?
Personally, barring a good argument, my lynch pool is down to 2 people:
skip wooznum or Joseph2302.
skip wooznum.
but I think that's a scumslip from adkhow do you know we'll know for sure after lynching only one of them? Do you know neither is scum?Is it just me or does this ww/teproc fight seem a tad scum vs. scum?
The only way to know for sure is to lynch one of them.
Skip: Care to explain why that's a scumslip?well, how does he know we'll find out after lynching one of them? Maybe we'll lynch one and he'll flip scum and we won't know whether or not it's scum v scum. Unless he knows they're both town. How would he know that?
Personally, barring a good argument, my lynch pool is down to 2 people:
skip wooznum or Joseph2302.
skip wooznum.
well, how does he know we'll find out after lynching one of them? Maybe we'll lynch one and he'll flip scum and we won't know whether or not it's scum v scum. Unless he knows they're both town. How would he know that?
And im leaning town on adk.as your followup to that at the time?
like I said, I forgot almost immediately afterwardswell, how does he know we'll find out after lynching one of them? Maybe we'll lynch one and he'll flip scum and we won't know whether or not it's scum v scum. Unless he knows they're both town. How would he know that?
Logic aside, why'd you say thisAnd im leaning town on adk.as your followup to that at the time?
like I said, I forgot almost immediately afterwardsSo what was causing you to lean town on ADK?
I think the fact that he found me scummylike I said, I forgot almost immediately afterwardsSo what was causing you to lean town on ADK?
I think the fact that he found me scummylike I said, I forgot almost immediately afterwardsSo what was causing you to lean town on ADK?
Sorry, one day. But still
so, you agree?well, how does he know we'll find out after lynching one of them? Maybe we'll lynch one and he'll flip scum and we won't know whether or not it's scum v scum. Unless he knows they're both town. How would he know that?
Logic aside,
so, you agree?well, how does he know we'll find out after lynching one of them? Maybe we'll lynch one and he'll flip scum and we won't know whether or not it's scum v scum. Unless he knows they're both town. How would he know that?
Logic aside,
well are we done with the other stuff?so, you agree?well, how does he know we'll find out after lynching one of them? Maybe we'll lynch one and he'll flip scum and we won't know whether or not it's scum v scum. Unless he knows they're both town. How would he know that?
Logic aside,
No, I think your logic makes 0 sense. But I wanted to know your responses to other stuff more than I wanted to argue with you about your logic being bad.
well are we done with the other stuff?
Also, Mail-mi posted on-site (only a couple times but still) while we were lynching Awaclus conveniently without stopping in here to offer any thoughts or reactions.
that's not what I mean. Why would you vote for me?well are we done with the other stuff?
I mean that's up to you. I'm willing to vote for you now if that's what you mean.
Also, Mail-mi posted on-site (only a couple times but still) while we were lynching Awaclus conveniently without stopping in here to offer any thoughts or reactions.
I think this is unfair and should not be used against players. Mafia is not the only reason people might want to check this forum for, and following the developments of a game of Mafia takes longer than pretty much anything else in here. Just because someone has posted elsewhere at the same time is not proof that they also read the game and chose not to say anything.
That being said, the fact remains that he didn't say anything.
I will answer your accusation and post some thought either later tonight or tomorrow. I am in a rush right now.
I did not find his play weird until after the flip. I assumed you already found it weirdbecause you thought awac was scum. I didnt. But neither did pacovf. I found it scummy that he acknowledged his weird play. And also, like you pointed out, he repeatedly said awaclus was a bad lynch while supporting a similar one. I still want to talk about the scumslipYeah I'm surprised by the VT claim too, and Seprix's play around this is a bit weird, as is Pacovf's and ADK's.
Yeah, but well, I am at work.
Oh, and my reasoning on not WW was that WW still had a lot of suspicion on him comparatively.
Personally, barring a good argument, my lynch pool is down to 2 people:
skip wooznum or Joseph2302.
skip wooznum.
Also, I sort of forgot abput thisbut I think that's a scumslip from adkhow do you know we'll know for sure after lynching only one of them? Do you know neither is scum?Is it just me or does this ww/teproc fight seem a tad scum vs. scum?
The only way to know for sure is to lynch one of them.
I'm comfortable removing Teproc and UoS from my lynch pool today. Probably WW as well.
Seprix I don't see as super scummy but I'll have to go back and read him.
chairs and skip and mail-mi are the scummiest. pacovf was also off-wagon, but I remember finding him towny yesterday for some reason, so I'll go re-examine that.
PPE: I also fail to see how that's supposed to be a scumslip.
Personally, barring a good argument, my lynch pool is down to 2 people:
skip wooznum or Joseph2302.
skip wooznum.
Okay, PPE everything from after this post, I'll read it after I advise that I am apparently really REALLY sold that Joseph is Mafia every game, I even made this mistake in my personal QT when musing on who I thought should be D2's lynch.
leaning town on seprixSince we're doing the would-not-lynch list thing, mine is woefully short:
When I read this, I got to thinking: he seems hyper aware of this, and in this game it looks to me (and this is where I need input from people who've actually played with him a bunch rather than skimmed some games) that he's been explaining and defending himself even less than usual.
I'm postulating that he's overcompensating for his known scumtell.
Thoughts?
I think it's pretty likely, actually. I can hammer if you'd like, I'm down for an Awaclus lynch.
Let's talk about that not-lynching-lurkers-except-Mail-Mi thing.
But I'm still willing to hold it against him, maybe I'm not fair, whatever. Deliberate lurking doesn't seem that implausible to me.
Awaclus - obvtown
Teproc - towny
Hydrad - null
Joseph - Innocent Child
Witherweaver - slightly suspicious
skip wooznum - null
A Drowned Kernel - slightly suspicious
Seprix - scummy
mail-mi - null
UmbrageOfSnow - towny
chairs - scummy
pacovf - towny
Also, Mail-mi posted on-site (only a couple times but still) while we were lynching Awaclus conveniently without stopping in here to offer any thoughts or reactions.
Final Vote Count Day 1Awaclus (7): Hydrad, Witherweaver, UmbrageOfSnow, Teproc, chairs, Seprix, A Drowned Kernel
Teproc (1): mail-mi
mail-mi (1): pacovf
chairs (2):Awaclus,Joseph2302
Not Voting (1): skip wooznum
With 12 alive, it took 7 to lynch.
1) town!Awaclus gets very indignant when he has a wagon on him, and continually talks about how not scum he's been acting.
This is true. Usually when I'm town, I have like 29384723984723 town tells that everyone is either not noticing or choosing to ignore on purpose, which is why I have to point them out. In this game, I haven't posted much because a lot of stuff has been going on IRL and other games, and that's why there aren't that many things that I can point out. The only notable thing is that I don't lurk as scum, but there's the problem that I don't usually lurk as town either.
Oh, and my reasoning on not WW was that WW still had a lot of suspicion on him comparatively.
I was pretty sure I was going to get killed last night. I had also forgotten we had an IC. Better him than me, I say.
If I were Awaclus, at least one of my partners would be "null". He only has two people on that list at null.
Let's lynch skip.
Also, Mail-mi posted on-site (only a couple times but still) while we were lynching Awaclus conveniently without stopping in here to offer any thoughts or reactions.
Need to do more catching up, but need to respond to this. You guys put up like 8 pages when I was asleep, so I went and checked my other game, then had to leave before I could get through this one, then by the time I came back Awaclus was lynched.
HOORAY Awaclus was scum!
I think we need to lynch off-wagon today.Final Vote Count Day 1Awaclus (7): Hydrad, Witherweaver, UmbrageOfSnow, Teproc, chairs, Seprix, A Drowned Kernel
Teproc (1): mail-mi
mail-mi (1): pacovf
chairs (2):Awaclus,Joseph2302
Not Voting (1): skip wooznum
With 12 alive, it took 7 to lynch.
...which, well, really narrows it down to Pacovf and Skip. Skip was acting pretty scummy yesterday, and not having your vote on someone is bad news, like he wanted to find an argument for anyone else but couldn't, but didn't want to vote his scum partner. (Haven't reread end of Day 1 yet so don't know if this is what his posts felt like). vote: skip wooznum
Also, Mail-mi posted on-site (only a couple times but still) while we were lynching Awaclus conveniently without stopping in here to offer any thoughts or reactions.
Need to do more catching up, but need to respond to this. You guys put up like 8 pages when I was asleep, so I went and checked my other game, then had to leave before I could get through this one, then by the time I came back Awaclus was lynched.HOORAY Awaclus was scum!
I think we need to lynch off-wagon today.Final Vote Count Day 1Awaclus (7): Hydrad, Witherweaver, UmbrageOfSnow, Teproc, chairs, Seprix, A Drowned Kernel
Teproc (1): mail-mi
mail-mi (1): pacovf
chairs (2):Awaclus,Joseph2302
Not Voting (1): skip wooznum
With 12 alive, it took 7 to lynch.
...which, well, really narrows it down to Pacovf and Skip. Skip was acting pretty scummy yesterday, and not having your vote on someone is bad news, like he wanted to find an argument for anyone else but couldn't, but didn't want to vote his scum partner. (Haven't reread end of Day 1 yet so don't know if this is what his posts felt like). vote: skip wooznum
This is extremely bizarre. How did you know that D1 ended without also seeing the flip?
Think we can learn anything from this list?
Not to mention WW not dying D1 is pretty odd, though I guess the safe lynch would be Joseph.
Analyzing the wagon come D1 end, and given Seprix's Law of Mafia Average (One/Two scum tends to jump on wagon, The rest stay off wagon),You're naming this after yourself, really?? You did not invent this.
This could easily be scum!WW defending Awaclus there.That's not a defense
We have mail-Mi, Pacovf and Skip. Skip seems townie, because he's quite overeager, which is typical for newer players. Pacovf has been strong town thus far.
Looks like a WW/Awaclus/Mail-Mi scum team so far.
Let's talk about that not-lynching-lurkers-except-Mail-Mi thing.
That is grossly misrepresenting my position. Lynching a lurker and a lurker-lynch is not the same thing. The first means that you have reasons to believe a given lurker is scum. The second means lynching a lurker because lurkers are harder to read.
So I argued against an Awaclus lynch, because it seemed like the only way to get the time to do all that. And well, that arguing was rushed, because I was at work.Yeah, I have to admit this is plausible. But you could have said that at the time, rather than making a bad defense. I'm inclined to believe you really were rushed and not thinking, but that in your rush you made a bad defense of your scumbuddy. That makes more sense to me with how that went down. I think as town you didn't need to have a terrible argument, you could have just asked us to wait.
But I'm still willing to hold it against him, maybe I'm not fair, whatever. Deliberate lurking doesn't seem that implausible to me.
Can we just vote: awaclus and get rolling? I want to see what N1's NK will be already so we can work with it D2.
Awaclus
I didn't like the accusations against Awaclus, but I'm warming up to them. Unknown
I feel bad for thinking this (because it might encourage groupthink and dissuade people from carrying out their reads) but chairs feels a bit scummy for me right now. Like, enough for me to change my vote from mail-mi.
vote: Chairs
Well, I'm ending this facade. :/
vote: Awaclus
Okay then let's see.
Vote: Awaclus
WW seems to like pursuing "safe" lynches. I'm moving back to liking a WW lynch.
Doesn't look like it. vote: WW
Wow yeah I could definitely lynch awaclus today. Scum read is skyrocketing.
Huh, about anyone else... Joseph is the IC, Awaclus has been super-lurking, and I am not fine with that, and I haven't formed an opinion on Seprix yet.
So people I would vote for: Mail-mi, chairs, ADK, Awaclus, maybe Seprix, maaaaaaaybe Teproc.
I notice you mention that you could see a skip or Awaclus lynch. I'm not sold on skip. I don't see why you are against a Mail-mi lynch but for an Awaclus one. It's the sort of non-accountable wagon you were complaining about for Mail-mi.
Is anyone voting (or wanting to vote) for Awaclus for a reason other than him lurking? If he flips town, are you all going to throw your hands up in the air and say "but he was lurking!"?
I'm all up for lynching lurkers... starting on D2. Otherwise, I would rather lynch someone that actually gets us somewhere even if he flips town. Own your votes, people!
Otherwise, if anyone has a strong opinion on Hydrad, ADK or Seprix (remember when he had a wagon on him?), I would like to hear it. We haven't discussed any of them lately.
Off to read a scum!Awaclus game. Maybe a town one too, I'm really confused about his play here.
I approve.
Again, I haven't had the time to reread Awaclus, but while UoS is really persuasive, the case against Awaclus is still just that he is lurking. Lurker lynches are bad in D1, because if he flips town, we have next to nothing. I would totally be for an Awaclus lynch for D2 (assuming nothing better comes up from the flips), because he has earned it many times over, but I don't think I want to lynch him today.
Would scum!awaclus be this uninterested in this game? (Or do we think he's pretending to be uninterested?)
This is absurd. @Awaclus, you dont want to tell us why you think chairs is scum. Can you tell us why you don't want to tell us why you think chairs is scum?
are there any reasons that don't assume your survival through day 1?
Ok, so I think today's lynch should be between Seprix and pacovf. I'm pretty confident at least one of them is scum.id much rather lynch pacovf than seprix
vote: Seprix
You're splitting hairs here. You're right that I just semi-randomly voted for Awaclus to get him in here, but by the time you started arguing about this it was far from lynching a lurker because he was hard to read.
But your argument is nonsense. And not wanting to lynch a claimed vanilla townie who is reacting super scummily under pressure because he might be lying and softclaiming a PR is crazy.
QuoteSo I argued against an Awaclus lynch, because it seemed like the only way to get the time to do all that. And well, that arguing was rushed, because I was at work.Yeah, I have to admit this is plausible. But you could have said that at the time, rather than making a bad defense. I'm inclined to believe you really were rushed and not thinking, but that in your rush you made a bad defense of your scumbuddy. That makes more sense to me with how that went down. I think as town you didn't need to have a terrible argument, you could have just asked us to wait.
I don't like how you're framing this, as if I'm going to lynch Mail-mi single handedly, based soley on the fact that he lurked through the day end. As if I'm claiming it's some sort of huge case. I'm not even voting the guy!
pacovf.Huh, about anyone else... Joseph is the IC, Awaclus has been super-lurking, and I am not fine with that, and I haven't formed an opinion on Seprix yet.
So people I would vote for: Mail-mi, chairs, ADK, Awaclus, maybe Seprix, maaaaaaaybe Teproc.
This is right before Hydrad voes Awaclus, so he has 0 votes there. Fits a scumpartner attitude : Awaclus is among people pacovf is fine lynching, but not too high up there.I notice you mention that you could see a skip or Awaclus lynch. I'm not sold on skip. I don't see why you are against a Mail-mi lynch but for an Awaclus one. It's the sort of non-accountable wagon you were complaining about for Mail-mi.
Only 1 vote on Awaclus at this point, but pacovf is already doing some damage control. Well, that or pacovf is being consistent with his view on lurker lynches, but either way, this still fits.
Is anyone voting (or wanting to vote) for Awaclus for a reason other than him lurking? If he flips town, are you all going to throw your hands up in the air and say "but he was lurking!"?
I'm all up for lynching lurkers... starting on D2. Otherwise, I would rather lynch someone that actually gets us somewhere even if he flips town. Own your votes, people!
Otherwise, if anyone has a strong opinion on Hydrad, ADK or Seprix (remember when he had a wagon on him?), I would like to hear it. We haven't discussed any of them lately.
Now this is deflecting. Awaclus has 4 votes on him now and is the leading wagon, so now is where a competent scumpartner has to make a choice. What's weird here is that pacovf's vote is sitting on mail-mi, which goes rather strongly against his argument here (yes he'll say he had an actual case on mail-mi, but if mail-mi had been lynched it would still have mostly been a lurker lynch). Now inconsistencies tend to be townie, but this particularly inconsistency allows pacovf to stay on the main competing wagon to a scum lynch, so maybe not this time.
Off to read a scum!Awaclus game. Maybe a town one too, I'm really confused about his play here.
I approve.
Not sure if this means anything, but it's probably relevant in some way.
Again, I haven't had the time to reread Awaclus, but while UoS is really persuasive, the case against Awaclus is still just that he is lurking. Lurker lynches are bad in D1, because if he flips town, we have next to nothing. I would totally be for an Awaclus lynch for D2 (assuming nothing better comes up from the flips), because he has earned it many times over, but I don't think I want to lynch him today.
Awaclus has 5 votes on him now. THis reminds me very strongly of Star Wars Mafia, which will speak to probably nobody here (maybe WW was in that ?), but I'll explain. I was scum with XP in that game, and XP was super scummy on D1 and had a lynch on him. I defended him with what basically amounted as a "too scummy to be scum" argument, and persisted even when I knew he was about to be lynched, because I felt like town!me would not switch at that point, and that anyone with a passing familiarity with my meta would recognize a switch to be a desperate attempt at towncred. In fact I hoped that my stalwart defense of him would be seen as exonerating.
I don't think scum!Awaclus means town!WW. I do think town!Awaclus heavily implies scum!WW.
You don't address the proposal to lynch Awaclus D2. What do you think of it?
...(numerous weird things)...
You don't address the proposal to lynch Awaclus D2. What do you think of it?
I don't know what he thinks of it (or who "he" is), but it was scummy.
Fair enough.
What's the difference with NMVI then? Something similar happened there, and you reacted the opposite way.
Also, Mail-mi posted on-site (only a couple times but still) while we were lynching Awaclus conveniently without stopping in here to offer any thoughts or reactions.
Need to do more catching up, but need to respond to this. You guys put up like 8 pages when I was asleep, so I went and checked my other game, then had to leave before I could get through this one, then by the time I came back Awaclus was lynched.HOORAY Awaclus was scum!
I think we need to lynch off-wagon today.Final Vote Count Day 1Awaclus (7): Hydrad, Witherweaver, UmbrageOfSnow, Teproc, chairs, Seprix, A Drowned Kernel
Teproc (1): mail-mi
mail-mi (1): pacovf
chairs (2):Awaclus,Joseph2302
Not Voting (1): skip wooznum
With 12 alive, it took 7 to lynch.
...which, well, really narrows it down to Pacovf and Skip. Skip was acting pretty scummy yesterday, and not having your vote on someone is bad news, like he wanted to find an argument for anyone else but couldn't, but didn't want to vote his scum partner. (Haven't reread end of Day 1 yet so don't know if this is what his posts felt like). vote: skip wooznum
This is extremely bizarre. How did you know that D1 ended without also seeing the flip?
I'm with Pacovf, that IS a bit weird. Only strengthens my Mail-Mi read, so hey. Have an explanation? Because if you don't, I think I have my lynch candidate.
Fair enough.
What's the difference with NMVI then? Something similar happened there, and you reacted the opposite way.
You'd have to remind me. Was that the New Mafia game that you played?
Also, your meta-awareness of how you handled a similar situation when you were town in a different game does not to many favors for my impression of you now. You could have easily been aware of this yesterday when deciding how to treat Awaclus. "Oh, I did this in my other town game and it was very similar, so it won't be suspicious if I do it here."
Also, your meta-awareness of how you handled a similar situation when you were town in a different game does not to many favors for my impression of you now. You could have easily been aware of this yesterday when deciding how to treat Awaclus. "Oh, I did this in my other town game and it was very similar, so it won't be suspicious if I do it here."
So you think that my reasoning was:
"I can totally get away with defending Awaclus now that he is nearly lynched, because I did an arguably similar thing in a 10 month old game that shares three players with this game, one of them being quite active!"
No, I was just interested in what people thought about the whole "let's lynch him D2" thing, because it confused people in that other game.
Also, your meta-awareness of how you handled a similar situation when you were town in a different game does not to many favors for my impression of you now. You could have easily been aware of this yesterday when deciding how to treat Awaclus. "Oh, I did this in my other town game and it was very similar, so it won't be suspicious if I do it here."
So you think that my reasoning was:
"I can totally get away with defending Awaclus now that he is nearly lynched, because I did an arguably similar thing in a 10 month old game that shares three players with this game, one of them being quite active!"
No, I was just interested in what people thought about the whole "let's lynch him D2" thing, because it confused people in that other game.
I feel that the fact that you brought up your play in the other game is undermining your point a little here.
But I do think "let's lynch him Day 2" is incredibly scummy, it was really bugging me on Day 1 and through the night. Saying we'll lynch someone Day 2 instead gives a lot of chance for town to fail to commit, not want to jump into anything too soon and stumble around into mislynching a townie instead. It's not just some slim hope for putting off the lynch a day to save him for more than a day, it's a reasonably good one. And even if it doesn't work, it gets a low-information mislynch out of the way now rather than having to secure one in the future.
I'm not sure what others think, but my reasoning is that you were at work, not able to keep up with things and because of this didn't think your defense of Awaclus through the way you would have liked to. I like to play online chess, and I have a bad habit of suddenly playing stupid and hanging a piece when under time pressure and distracted by work or other things.
I think you realized that your defense was not going to make you look good after posting it, but that it was a mistake made in a hurry. And I think it's a mistake much more likely to come from scum.
So we agree that the fact that I made a bad defense of Awaclus is a consequence of being at work, not a consequence of alignment?
Hey Pavlov ;D,
In your first game, Mail-mi was lurking scum on Day 1. You seemed the most commited to lynching Mail-mi here. You were opposed to a lurker lynch, but liked your case on Mail-mi.
Could you talk about how that first game influenced you here, if at all. (Maybe it didn't, I don't know, but I'd like your thoughts on this.) Do you think things Mail-mi did there contributed to your read here?
@pacovf, so whom do you think is scum then?
...(numerous weird things)...
In this "Law of Mafia Average", does it matter whether the wagon was on scum or town?
Yep, Teproc is right pacovf. You're just recognizing my playstyle . I'm more of an observer, so I try to post but I don't usually have much to say. Also I've been busy.
Pardon me if I am a bit worried. I have 4 people voting for me
That's convenient, I was about to ask how many votes you have, but it seems like I don't have to do that now.
Vote: Seprix
Suppose you couldn't lynch WW and were forced to pick someone else. Who would that be?
My first instinct is skip, but I don't like lynching newbies on their first day, so I'd go with Awaclus. Completely under the radar, hasn't said anything of substance I can remember, and I do seem to recall that scum!Awaclus tends to be in the background, though I'd have to check.
Awaclus and WW, you guys haven't weighed in on the Mail-mi wagon. What do you think of it?
Not a huge fan of it, but I could do it if there's nothing better. I think it's better than WW at least.
Okay then let's see.
Vote: Awaclus
Vote: Awaclus
Would scum!awaclus be this uninterested in this game? (Or do we think he's pretending to be uninterested?)
Okay then let's see.
Vote: Awaclus
WW seems to like pursuing "safe" lynches. I'm moving back to liking a WW lynch.
Doesn't look like it. vote: WW
Why is Awaclus a safe lynch?
He's a lurker.
It's not an easy lynch if there's resistance!
Still a safe vote. Scum cares less about pushing mislynches super hard than about appearing active and towny.
So what's an unsafe vote?
L-1?
Only two more votes to get Awaclus to L-1! Look! It's unsafe, and therefore unequivocally townie!
Yeah, not defending Awaclus here. I was saying voting someone when they're L-1 is an unsafe vote. :p
In other news, Awaclus has a quickly growing wagon; neglects to respond. More at 11.
Perhaps he is not online at the moment.
Or the last couple days of moments.
Yes, that seems to be a problem.
I shouldn't be online right now. I'm in college, writing a paper before class. :p
Can we just vote: awaclus and get rolling? I want to see what N1's NK will be already so we can work with it D2.
Awaclus I kind of want to policy lynch because if he's town then he's not being helpful. But again, it's the easy day one lynch, and I still like lynching WW more.
PPE: I'm pretty sure I've seen Awaclus as lurky scum. Wasn't he scum in flavorless?
vote: Awaclus
L-1 I think. Wait no, chairs switched so it's only L-2.
This quote from RMM 24 caught my eye (he was town there.)- can you explain exactly what it is from your scum meta which you fail to replicate as town? I've heard you saying that you're easily found at as scum a bunch of times, but never understood why.2) Well, I don't particularly try to replicate my scum meta when I'm town. :P Anyway, I always feel enormous pressure to make sense and explain everything as scum. Even in Blarnia Mafia where I somehow got away with it, I explained all of my votes and reads unless the reasons were very clear without an explanation. I obviously do not feel any pressure to explain anything at all when I'm town.
When I read this, I got to thinking: he seems hyper aware of this, and in this game it looks to me (and this is where I need input from people who've actually played with him a bunch rather than skimmed some games) that he's been explaining and defending himself even less than usual.
I'm postulating that he's overcompensating for his known scumtell.
Thoughts?
PPE: 4
I think it's pretty likely, actually. I can hammer if you'd like, I'm down for an Awaclus lynch.
Awaclus isn't a terrible lynch but he's not my favorite.
He tends to be pretty passive regardless of alignment. Which is a bad way to play but unfortunately doesn't indicate much about his alignment here.
He tends to be pretty passive regardless of alignment. Which is a bad way to play but unfortunately doesn't indicate much about his alignment here.
So you think his play here is no more or less passive than his other games?
He's maybe more passive here than usual. As I said, he's certainly not the worst lynch. I'm still holding out for WW a little, though.
Unrelated, the more tight-lipped Awaclus gets/feels, the more I want to lynch him. This feels a lot like how I reacted to suspicion in D1 of HP Mafia.
Again, am I going to lynch or not? It's looking worse and worse for Awaclus.
Again, I haven't had the time to reread Awaclus, but while UoS is really persuasive, the case against Awaclus is still just that he is lurking. Lurker lynches are bad in D1, because if he flips town, we have next to nothing. I would totally be for an Awaclus lynch for D2 (assuming nothing better comes up from the flips), because he has earned it many times over, but I don't think I want to lynch him today.
Wow yeah I could definitely lynch awaclus today. Scum read is skyrocketing.
VT.
Well, I'm ending this facade. :/
vote: Awaclus
Yeah, intent to hammer. We're still pretty early so I'll give people a chance to jump in and give last thoughts but anyone who states intent to play anti-town should be lynched as a matter of course. And awaclus is way too self-aware here for my liking.
Didn't Hydrad start this whole thing by throwing his vote on Awaclus as a placeholder?
I don't think scum!Awaclus means town!WW. I do think town!Awaclus heavily implies scum!WW.
are there any reasons that don't assume your survival through day 1?And, you know, what are your reads in general ? On the off chance that you're Morgrim!Awaclus, give us that at least.
Awaclus - obvtown
Teproc - towny
Hydrad - null
Joseph - Innocent Child
Witherweaver - slightly suspicious
skip wooznum - null
A Drowned Kernel - slightly suspicious
Seprix - scummy
mail-mi - null
UmbrageOfSnow - towny
chairs - scummy
pacovf - townyThis is absurd. @Awaclus, you dont want to tell us why you think chairs is scum. Can you tell us why you don't want to tell us why you think chairs is scum?
Well, besides getting lynched for the scum tell, there's also the reason that I think people's reactions when they're being voted without an explanation outside of RVS can be extremely valuable. It's not working now because nobody's taking it my vote seriously so chairs isn't probably feeling a lot of pressure from it, but it has worked in the past. Also, later in the game, it can be beneficial for making NKs more difficult for scum — they don't know what's the reason why I'm voting for them or how convinced I actually am, and sometimes that information could be very important.
Oh I thought Seprix's vote was the hammer for some reason. I'm fine with vote: awaclus, people have said what they need to.
And of course, not a single post by mail-mi anywhere near this.
Vote: WW
because I want to see him lynched day 1 once.
obviously there is also a town narrative, I wasn't claiming otherwise. But I can totally see scum feeling like they have to justify an rvs, or planning an rvs on someone they can easily 'find scummy'
It's weird that you think that's a justification.
It's much weirder that Wither agreed with you and strengthened it to "something only scum do" especially without actually voting for me.
Vote: Witherweaver
It's weird that you think that's a justification.
It's much weirder that Wither agreed with you and strengthened it to "something only scum do" especially without actually voting for me.
Vote: Witherweaver
You know nothing, UmbrageOfSnow.
vote: Witherweaver
There's a reason I quoted WW, not skip, when questioning the "justifying an RVS vote" reasoning. He's encouraging suspicion based on dubious reasons without actually taking part... and when confronted, has nothing to say about it. Perhaps hoping we'd just move on ? I won't, town!WW is more engaged than this, and wouldn't only post the jokey response. He would do that and follow it up with an actual post of significance. Here his only post of significance is "yeah, that thing is totally scummy, you go ahead and lynch that guy".
Vote: WW
I fail to see how Teproc's post was "a short novel", nor why attempting to justify a vote is scummy, nor how being the second person to vote for someone is "jumping in on a wagon". To me it looks like you're trying to disarm your wagon and discredit people who are voting for you.
I fail to see how Teproc's post was "a short novel", nor why attempting to justify a vote is scummy, nor how being the second person to vote for someone is "jumping in on a wagon". To me it looks like you're trying to disarm your wagon and discredit people who are voting for you.I agree with ADK here. Vote: WW.
Reply to Pacovf because I'm on my phone currently: WW seems genuine to me right now. Yes, I know that's not a 'great' reason. But I don't think he's scum right now.
I should do a reads thing soon though, because besides Mail-Mi, no one else is potentially scum, and we have two other guys thus far.
Is it just me or does this ww/teproc fight seem a tad scum vs. scum?
I just can't even right now.
vote: ww. I feel like this is going to be like the early Joseph games, where if we don't lynch you we just keep going back to "ought we?" and you're as good a choice as any D1 in my mind.
I did know it was L-1.
I appreciate all the reactions.
vote: Teproc. Sorry to worry you, WW, I just wanted to see what Teproc would do to an unannounced L-1 :)
I don't want to lynch ww this early and I dont like how chairs joined this wagon
I have been lurking indeed; yesterday was busy. I should be on more today to answer any questions.
No that was not a hedge defense of skip, I just wanted to see what ADK's reasoning is.
I think Teproc and WW are of the same alignment. Whether that's town or scum, I don't know.
And for what it's worth, if only one of Teproc/WW is scum, i think it would be Teproc, for the same reason as chairs.
Also, I think chairs is town and won't lynch him today.
Is it just me or does this ww/teproc fight seem a tad scum vs. scum?
The only way to know for sure is to lynch one of them.
Mmm I think I could go back to vote: skip
ADK : what's your read on WW ?
Mmm I'm considering. Are you maintaining your position that he's scummy?
Yes. He's my preferred lynch for today, by a mile.
Suppose you couldn't lynch WW and were forced to pick someone else. Who would that be?
The whole WW thing: when rereading, I think he is genuine. While his original comment was sort of weird, I like the answer he gave when asked to explain his thought process about skip's original post, I think it is very towny. I don't agree with his vote on Teproc though, it just feels like Teproc being Teproc.
Ok I changed my mind. Even though I want to see WW lynched day 1 sometime I don't think this is the right game for it.
I havn't thought to much about mail-mi for some reason.
everyone seems to say hes scummy but I'm not sure if I just haven't been paying enough attention or not but it hasn't stuck out to me much yet.
Vote: awaclus for now. more of a placeholder vote.
And of course, not a single post by mail-mi anywhere near this.
Already told you why.
That was a very nice novel, Pacovf. :)
And the Heavens be blessed that Hydrad inherited the Innocent Child.
Awaclus made a pretty ballsy vote on Seprix back when he had a wagon on him, so considering both wagons, and between ADK and Seprix, I definitely prefer vote: ADK.
Awaclus made a pretty ballsy vote on Seprix back when he had a wagon on him, so considering both wagons, and between ADK and Seprix, I definitely prefer vote: ADK.
I think you're giving too much weight to the Seprix wagon. It was very, very early on in the day, and I know we've had some day 1 quicklynches recently, but it was still unlikely to go all the way. I suppose it's worth some town cred for Seprix, but his interactions with Awaclus so perfectly fit what I'd expect from a scumpartner that I can't overlook it.
ADK is a good lynch as well, not my preferred but I'll join it if needed. His interactions with Awaclus are more subtle but that's to be expected since ADK is more experienced. It's just that when you lynch scum on day 1, I think the simplest answer tends to be the right one (and here the simplest answers are Seprix and pacovf).
People need to stop giving massive towncred for just doing work btw. People like pacovf will absolutely do that as scum, especially when their day 1 interactions are as damning as they are here. It's fine to give some towncred for it (it's a big reason why I prefer lynching Seprix to pacovf), but just like mail-mi lurking doesn't mean he's scum, pacovf (or me, or WW etc.) doing rereads doesn't mean they're town.
QuoteADK is a good lynch as well, not my preferred but I'll join it if needed. His interactions with Awaclus are more subtle but that's to be expected since ADK is more experienced. It's just that when you lynch scum on day 1, I think the simplest answer tends to be the right one (and here the simplest answers are Seprix and pacovf).
Considering our playstyles, do you really think that ADK being more subtle here is actually so good an argument that you put him on an entirely different willing-to-lynch category than Seprix and I?
Honestly, after finishing the reread, ADK seems quite a bit scummier than I am, but then again, I am terribly biased.
Well, first of all you've never been scum, so even though you're a good town player, you might not be the best scum player ever (they can't all be) on your first try. More importantly though, the scum narrative for you is very different thatn ADK's.
Sure, we can wait, don't worry.
In the meantime, Seprix, care to defend yourself or put your vote down somewhere?
Well, first of all you've never been scum, so even though you're a good town player, you might not be the best scum player ever (they can't all be) on your first try. More importantly though, the scum narrative for you is very different thatn ADK's.
This has been bothering me for a while now, and I think I've managed to put my finger on why: it looks like you are choosing the scum!pacovf meta that best fits the current facts, and that's a reasoning shortcut.
Example: Let's assume for a moment that WW had never been scum here before. I reread WW, and think "what sort of scum narrative fits these facts?", and I say "when under pressure, WW always busses a partner so that either gets mass towncred". Well, that sounds reasonable enough, and it fits the facts perfectly! Let's lynch WW! Obviously, this is just a reductio ad absurdum for illustrative purposes.
My point is, if you choose my scum meta, I am obviously going to fit a scum narrative (compared to a town one) much better than ADK's fits one based on his preexisting scum meta, which you cannot choose.
Note that I am not saying that your assumption about my scum meta is a bad one. It's just that there's a host of equally likely ones that you could have chosen instead, and that I don't fit as well.
You're making it sound like my case on you is all meta, which it's not. Meta is a small part of it.
The main case is : you defended Awaclus and deflected from his lynch. Awaclus was scum.
All that being said, me having a conversation with you about how I think you're scum is not the most productive thing in te world, so I'll let others share their views on that now.
Mail-Mi was the alternate wagon to Awaclus. Say they're both scum. Does scum try to divert from both, or do they try to cut losses and bus for town cred? Was there much of a push back towards Mail-Mi when Awaclus wagon was ramping up? If so, that's and indication that Mail-Mi is town, and pushers are suspicious. If not, then scum is a little more likely. And ,well, he probably gets some town points just because you don't often have leading wagons on two scum.
So to answer your question, I'm not really sure who to vote for, because honestly, I don't see the ADK case. I'm not as confident on the Mail-Mi case, but I guess that's still my top read thus far.
.....ADK are among the higher reads I have....
...honestly, I don't see the ADK case...these are back to back contradicting posts
Mail-Mi was the alternate wagon to Awaclus. Say they're both scum. Does scum try to divert from both, or do they try to cut losses and bus for town cred? Was there much of a push back towards Mail-Mi when Awaclus wagon was ramping up? If so, that's and indication that Mail-Mi is town, and pushers are suspicious. If not, then scum is a little more likely. And ,well, he probably gets some town points just because you don't often have leading wagons on two scum.
It sounds like the conclusion you're coming to is that Mail-mi is town either way. Do you agree with that?
I don't recall any real push back to Mail-mi other than by Pacovf. ADK was lightly against the Awaclus lynch but was voting WW as I recall.
I do think Mail-mi and Pacovf seem like an unlikely scum team. I'm unwilling to lynch Chairs today. Is Mail-mi off the table for you, or close to it?
Is it just me or does this ww/teproc fight seem a tad scum vs. scum?
The only way to know for sure is to lynch one of them.
Is it just me or does this ww/teproc fight seem a tad scum vs. scum?If we assume that WW (and Teproc) are town, this doesn't look so good, but meh, I just think skip fits a town narrative so much better.Heh. This looks really, really bad today.Is it just me or does this ww/teproc fight seem a tad scum vs. scum?The only way to know for sure is to lynch one of them.
bad because it now looks like they're both town and he's trying to get one lynched, or because it looks like he's slipping that he knows they're both town?
Is it just me or does this ww/teproc fight seem a tad scum vs. scum?
If we assume that WW (and Teproc) are town, this doesn't look so good, but meh, I just think skip fits a town narrative so much better.
The only way to know for sure is to lynch one of them.
Heh. This looks really, really bad today.
bad because it now looks like they're both town and he's trying to get one lynched, or because it looks like he's slipping that he knows they're both town?
@WW: What exactly do you want to look far with regards to Mail-mi and the wagon on Awaclus? Is there any way I can help with that, I've got a lot of internet and free time tonight.
@Hydrad: Can we get some IC thoughts in here please?
Damn it.adk implied we would know for sure if it was scum v scum or wasn't after lynching one of them. That's different than saying we'd know for sure if someone is scum or not after lynching him in quite an obvious way.
Quotes are hard.
Anyway, I think (both Skip and Pacovf, I'm not even sure anymore) are both reading way to much into "only way to know for sure is to lynch one of them." How do you know for sure if someone is scum? You lynch them. Why do you guys think there is more to it than that. (Do you both think that, I don't know now.)
I think this is what that mess of quotes is supposed to look like.and yes this is what I meant basically. Sorry about the confusion.Heh. This looks really, really bad today.Is it just me or does this ww/teproc fight seem a tad scum vs. scum?The only way to know for sure is to lynch one of them.bad because it now looks like they're both town and he's trying to get one lynched, or because it looks like he's slipping that he knows they're both town?
bad because it now looks like they're both town and he's trying to get one lynched, or because it looks like he's slipping that he knows they're both town?Quote from: A Drowned KernelIs it just me or does this ww/teproc fight seem a tad scum vs. scum?
The only way to know for sure is to lynch one of them.
Heh. This looks really, really bad today.
I'm not too focused on the game. ADK and Pacovf could be announcing they're scum and I wouldn't know. College is hard :(
I'm not too focused on the game. ADK and Pacovf could be announcing they're scum and I wouldn't know. College is hard :(
...did Seprix just concede the game here?
...did Seprix just concede the game here?
I'm not too focused on the game. ADK and Pacovf could be announcing they're scum and I wouldn't know. College is hard :(
...did Seprix just concede the game here?
...No...? What does that even mean?
...did Seprix just concede the game here?
Go read the last day of Adventures Mafia~
I understand your scumslip argument, but a scumslip that requires the potential scum to be perfectly on top of the De Morgan's Law is not a very strong scumslip argument.what is De Morgan's law?
I understand your scumslip argument, but a scumslip that requires the potential scum to be perfectly on top of the De Morgan's Law is not a very strong scumslip argument.what is De Morgan's law?
I don't think he was considering all the logical ramifications of his post, but was just going with something that was "close enough".maybe. But if thats true then I have no issue with his post at all. I dont think he actually wanted one of them lynched, I read the post as a joke.
...that hint that there is a theme to the scum flavor-flavor names seems unlikely to be helpful at all without some scum flips to base it on. That might be worth talking about at some point I guess,..should we talk about this? Does anyone know the flavor?
...that hint that there is a theme to the scum flavor-flavor names seems unlikely to be helpful at all without some scum flips to base it on. That might be worth talking about at some point I guess,..should we talk about this? Does anyone know the flavor?
Just acknowledge that I'm a virtual IC so we can move on from there.
...that hint that there is a theme to the scum flavor-flavor names seems unlikely to be helpful at all without some scum flips to base it on. That might be worth talking about at some point I guess,..should we talk about this? Does anyone know the flavor?
I'm thinking it might be more useful to find the third scum once we have 2 scum flips to look for a pattern. But it would be useful if we're all locked into our flavor-flavor claims.
I vote we do a flavor-flavor claim. And then, in a different order, a flavor claim. Anyone disagree?
Hydrad should probably call the orders. We've got enough time in the day today that we probably have nothing to lose by this, and maybe it gains us some interactions. I would really like to see ADK/Mail-mi/Seprix/Pacovf and Skip as the earlier claims though. But it should probably be up to the IC.
Mafia players have Pony-Mafia flavour name fake claims, so there's not anything to gain from this. Unless a Mafia player gets confused and posts his real Pony-Mafia flavour name, I guess.
So what advantage are scum getting from this Seprix?
So what advantage are scum getting from this Seprix?
It seems incredibly obvious. If we all reveal our roles at the same time, bye bye cop, doctor, useful roles. As you said D1, we shouldn't discuss the game yet.
So what advantage are scum getting from this Seprix?
It seems incredibly obvious. If we all reveal our roles at the same time, bye bye cop, doctor, useful roles. As you said D1, we shouldn't discuss the game yet.
At what point did it look like I was suggesting we claim our roles?
I shoved all-in on Awaclus repeatedly and hard. Do you really think I'd do that as scum D1?
chairs' first vote for Awaclus is indeed very townie, but it's severly undercut by him switching to Seprix at the first opportunity. After that he came back when the lynch was already pretty inevitable. chairs is far from a top sspect, but he's far from an IC as well. Aside from Hydrad, only UoS is IC-ish.
There's a fundamental difference between the two: Awaclus would strictly be a lurker lynch. That means no accountability whatsoever if we lynch him. Nobody voting for mail-mi is doing so because of his lack of content, it's because what little there is, is scummy, so they won't be able to deflect responsibility tomorrow (should he happen to flip town).
That being said, I don't like the way Awaclus has been lurking. Most lurkers are just passive, not checking the game all that often, then posting a quick thought or two when they log in. Awaclus has been following the game closely, and just choosing not to post anything. Normally I would argue very strongly against a D1 lurker lynch, but I wouldn't feel so strongly about it in this specific case. Still, I would prefer a lynch elsewhere.
The problem is that you offer three lynches. WW and skip are town, IMHO, and Awaclus is a lurker lynch. So there's no common ground between our positions.
Awaclus and WW, you guys haven't weighed in on the Mail-mi wagon. What do you think of it?
Not a huge fan of it, but I could do it if there's nothing better. I think it's better than WW at least.
Awaclus and WW, you guys haven't weighed in on the Mail-mi wagon. What do you think of it?
Not a huge fan of it, but I could do it if there's nothing better. I think it's better than WW at least.
When I asked Awaclus why Mail-mi was better than WW he never gave a reason. At this point he only had Hydrad's placeholder vote of course, so he was certainly not feeling pressured yet. I think given Awaclus' flip, strategy, and reply that the reason he didn't have a reason was obviously because there was no reason and he hadn't actually thought about this in any detail. But what does Awaclus very slightly preferring a Mail-mi lynch over a WW lynch without contributing anything tell us?
For me, I think it makes Mail-mi somewhat more likely to be scum. What do you guys think?
I see what UoS is saying regarding scum!mail-mi but I don't think you go that route as scum.
I think in Awaclus's position you avoid mentioning your partner entirely or toss a meaningless vote on them to throw off suspicion... which is to say, Seprix now looks scummier to me.
I believe he did think about it and tried to reflect the popular opinion (or at least what he assumed the popular opinion would end up being). I dont think it means anything alignment-wise.Awaclus and WW, you guys haven't weighed in on the Mail-mi wagon. What do you think of it?
Not a huge fan of it, but I could do it if there's nothing better. I think it's better than WW at least.
When I asked Awaclus why Mail-mi was better than WW he never gave a reason. At this point he only had Hydrad's placeholder vote of course, so he was certainly not feeling pressured yet. I think given Awaclus' flip, strategy, and reply that the reason he didn't have a reason was obviously because there was no reason and he hadn't actually thought about this in any detail. But what does Awaclus very slightly preferring a Mail-mi lynch over a WW lynch without contributing anything tell us?
For me, I think it makes Mail-mi somewhat more likely to be scum. What do you guys think?
Realizing that's a bit unclear:this assumes one of ww/mm is town and one is scum. But they could just both be town, or both scum (though admittedly unlikely). If theyre both town, awaclus's comment still fits.
Awaclus knows Mail-mi and WW's alignment. Awaclus has decided to avoid contributing or making any firm statements in the game.
If we lynch Mail-mi and he is scum or lynch WW and he is town, Awaclus looks like he's paying attention and has some insight.
Now it's also possible that Awaclus wanted us to lynch Mail-mi because Mail-mi is town, but I think even refusing-to-be-committal Awaclus could have given it stronger support than that, especially as Mail-mi was the center of discussion at the moment and had (I think) 3 votes and a couple other people making non-committal noises. And especially as his own perceived town meta, while it involves not ever making a case apparently, certainly allows for having an opinion beyond "if no one better comes along."
I can see either interpretation, but I think this is still a point against Mail-mi.
I mean he only said anything about Mail-mi after I explicitly asked him. People had been talking about Mail-mi for a while with no contribution from Awaclus.
And yeah, I know there's not much to go off of, in either direction, with Mail-mi. But these small chances might still be enough to help decided a lynch with better odds than a random choice among all the scummy people.
I see what UoS is saying regarding scum!mail-mi but I don't think you go that route as scum.
I think in Awaclus's position you avoid mentioning your partner entirely or toss a meaningless vote on them to throw off suspicion... which is to say, Seprix now looks scummier to me.
I don't know what to add, so I guess I can answer any questions you guys have for me.
Also, I'm going on a week long vacation next week with no internet access. So maybe it might be a good idea to lynch me just because of that.
I don't know what to add, so I guess I can answer any questions you guys have for me.
Also, I'm going on a week long vacation next week with no internet access. So maybe it might be a good idea to lynch me just because of that.
I don't know what to add, so I guess I can answer any questions you guys have for me.
You could start by moving your vote to someone that might actually get lynched today.QuoteAlso, I'm going on a week long vacation next week with no internet access. So maybe it might be a good idea to lynch me just because of that.
...
I am town, but I'm just a VT and I haven't been contributing to the game at all anyway, so I'm the best town you could possibly lynch.
I don't remember anyone else saying that they wanted to lynch skip today. Nobody has built a real case on him either. It seems quite unlikely.
I am town, but I'm just a VT and I haven't been contributing to the game at all anyway, so I'm the best town you could possibly lynch.
...
*shrugs*
..like Skip pointing out that there's a Strongman. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13434.msg501670#msg501670)is this also not a scumslip or can we lynch him now?
I don't quite get your statement, Skip. Care to elaborate?I never said there is a strongman. He knows there is because he's scum.
I don't quite get your statement, Skip. Care to elaborate?I never said there is a strongman. He knows there is because he's scum.
no, if I understand you're question correctly. Which im not entirely certain I do.I don't quite get your statement, Skip. Care to elaborate?I never said there is a strongman. He knows there is because he's scum.
Does town have a strongman equivalent?
I don't quite get your statement, Skip. Care to elaborate?I never said there is a strongman. He knows there is because he's scum.
vote: Seprix, the things you are saying are just way too weird. L-1?
I don't quite get your statement, Skip. Care to elaborate?I never said there is a strongman. He knows there is because he's scum.
It's also worth noting that if anyone is a cop, vig, or mason, then that person knows the strongman is not a 1-shot
Also, if you're really confused about the setup: six letters got rolled. We had an IC, so we know at least two M's got rolled, which means at most 4 T's got rolled, which means we know that scum has at least a 1-shot strongman and possibly a full strongman. Skip's post that I quoted also implied that he thought this through as well, so it's surprising to me that he's calling it a scumslip when I mentioned it.I didn't point out there's at least a one-shot. UoS did that b4 me so when you quoted MY post, which was specifically discussing strongman vs. one-shot strongman, you somehow missed that a town player wouldnt know that its definitely a full strongman, and you slipped that you had such knowledge. Now your excuse is that you meant one-shot strongman. But if you meant that, you would've quoted UoS's post, not mine.
PPE: I'm not intending to hammer right now, but go for it. Also I'm going to bed for real now.
Okay. I'm a Cop. Not a 1-shot, either. I investigated Chairs N1 and he's Town, so barring any insanity rules, Chairs is towny.sigh...
Also, if you're really confused about the setup: six letters got rolled. We had an IC, so we know at least two M's got rolled, which means at most 4 T's got rolled, which means we know that scum has at least a 1-shot strongman and possibly a full strongman. Skip's post that I quoted also implied that he thought this through as well, so it's surprising to me that he's calling it a scumslip when I mentioned it.I didn't point out there's at least a one-shot. UoS did that b4 me so when you quoted MY post, which was specifically discussing strongman vs. one-shot strongman, you somehow missed that a town player wouldnt know that its definitely a full strongman, and you slipped that you had such knowledge. Now your excuse is that you meant one-shot strongman. But if you meant that, you would've quoted UoS's post, not mine.
PPE: I'm not intending to hammer right now, but go for it. Also I'm going to bed for real now.
Okay. I'm a Cop. Not a 1-shot, either. I investigated Chairs N1 and he's Town, so barring any insanity rules, Chairs is towny.
There is a godfather so this doesn't 100% clear Chairs. I am inclined to believe Seprix right now. I'm also not sure why I told him to go ahead and claim, it is late and I'm not thinking too straight.
vote: Seprix, the things you are saying are just way too weird. L-1?this was a bad vote. Seprix says weird things. Deal with it.
this is way worse. Of course he shouldn't claim. We're nowhere near deadline and I think a bunch of people want to lynch you anyway. And he was only third on your scumlist anyway. If you hadnt already scumslipped I think this is bad enough by itself.
PPE: I'm not intending to hammer right now, but go for it. Also I'm going to bed for real now.
according to your own account, we should interpret your post to say "skip points out there's at least a one-shot strongman." This is downright false, I didn't point that out. So what I think happened is that you scumslipped.
I didn't miss that. I was pointing out that you were making an empty post about the setup, and was using strongman to refer to the role in general. I feel like that should be obvious but whatever.
according to your own account, we should interpret your post to say "skip points out there's at least a one-shot strongman." This is downright false, I didn't point that out. So what I think happened is that you scumslipped.
I didn't miss that. I was pointing out that you were making an empty post about the setup, and was using strongman to refer to the role in general. I feel like that should be obvious but whatever.
vote: Seprix, the things you are saying are just way too weird. L-1?this was a bad vote. Seprix says weird things. Deal with it.this is way worse. Of course he shouldn't claim. We're nowhere near deadline and I think a bunch of people want to lynch you anyway. And he was only third on your scumlist anyway. If you hadnt already scumslipped I think this is bad enough by itself.
PPE: I'm not intending to hammer right now, but go for it. Also I'm going to bed for real now.
PPE
Will be back later, don't have time for more now. Basicall our choice is :you think theres only a slight chance he's telling the truth?
- lynch someone else scummy, which runs into the risk of drawing out another claim and put us in an uncomfortable situation
- lynch Seprix through the claim, but there's a slight chance that we lose a cop which, if he is one, is likely our strongest PR left.
unvote for now. Scum has every incentive to claim but Cop is powerful, might be worth lynching someone else.
skip : scumslips arguments are not as strong as you think they are. "Scumslips" have come from town at least as often as the have from scum.I know. And I promise I dont just run around looking for scumslips, though this game may give impressions otherwise. But instead of talking about the comparative merits of scumslip arguments in general, id much rather you explain to me how you believe adk's defense of it this time.
Another option is that ADK could be a cop? If I'm not mistaken, they can find out roles, right?
Also, come on Mail-mi, you can do better than that.
I really don't like Mail-mi's commitment to not even trying. Like I just don't understand why you're even signing up for these games. You're not even trying to be helpful here.
I get the impression only WW and I are interested in voting Mail-mi.
Ah, the replacement has been announced..
Hi everyone! Trying to catch up the best I can, keep doing whatever it is your doing in the meantime. If you want to give me heads up about your thoughts on me /WW I appreciate it.
Seprix, if you really are a cop, please investigate one of our collective top lynch targets that we don't lynch today. So if we lynch Pacovf, investigate Mail-m. If we lynch Mail-mi, investigate Pacovf, etc. Report results at the start of each day so we have them out there.
If you're really a cop we need you to investigate the targets most useful in process of elimination in the event we lynch the Godfather. i.e. the mislynches we could most likely avoid, who are unlikely to be NK'd.
Ah, the replacement has been announced..
Hi everyone! Trying to catch up the best I can, keep doing whatever it is your doing in the meantime. If you want to give me heads up about your thoughts on me /WW I appreciate it.
Assuming I don't die.
Assuming I don't die.
It's not a bad assumption to make. There are plenty of good NK targets for scum and we might have a doctor. And no offense, but if you are a real cop, you're more likely to be disbelieved and lynched through it than, for example, Hydrad. And the Godfather has nothing to fear from you.
Play the game like you're going to see tomorrow. The odds are reasonable that you will.
Will be back later, don't have time for more now. Basicall our choice is :you think theres only a slight chance he's telling the truth?
- lynch someone else scummy, which runs into the risk of drawing out another claim and put us in an uncomfortable situation
- lynch Seprix through the claim, but there's a slight chance that we lose a cop which, if he is one, is likely our strongest PR left.unvote for now. Scum has every incentive to claim but Cop is powerful, might be worth lynching someone else.
I would expect scum!Seprix to claim here, and Cop is probably the best fakeclaim for scum ? It's either that or a 1-Shot, but Cop works even better, because there's upside for us not to lynch him even if we don't fully believe him, as evidenced by, well, my position here. chairs is also an interesting choice, as it's someone who would have been an understandable cop target given that many suspected him at the end of day 1, but it's suspected much now, so it's not like he's actually removing anyone from the lynch pool. The more I think about it, the more this claim seems too neat to be true actually.
Yeah, way too neat. My argument for not lynching him was that a Cop is a real problem for scum here, because if he lives they're going to get PoEd to death, especially if we manage to lynch the Godfather. But the more I think about it, the more this looks like a fakeclaim to me, especially considering the confusion about Cop/Rolecop earlier.
vote: Seprix
@UoS, re : mail-mi. Don't lynch anti-town, lynch scum. I'm not particularly convinced mail-mi is town, but there are other people I find much scummier.
vote: Seprix, the things you are saying are just way too weird. L-1?this was a bad vote. Seprix says weird things. Deal with it.
Also, come on Mail-mi, you can do better than that. [...]
Witherweaver has been replaced by hockeysemlan.
Ah, the replacement has been announced..
Hi everyone! Trying to catch up the best I can, keep doing whatever it is your doing in the meantime. If you want to give me heads up about your thoughts on me /WW I appreciate it.
Ah, the replacement has been announced..
Hi everyone! Trying to catch up the best I can, keep doing whatever it is your doing in the meantime. If you want to give me heads up about your thoughts on me /WW I appreciate it.
Hi Hockey, welcome to the game.
I'm townreading your slot, but don't let that make you lazy please. Why is that your first question though?
If you're really asking "am I in danger of being lynched right now" the answer is no. We're lynching Mail-mi, Pacovf or mayyyybbe Seprix who just claimed cop or ADK who finally decided to step it up and play the game.
That reminds me. Why did WW leave? If I'm asking an unethical question, sorry.
I realize now my vote probably didn't count
Also, come on Mail-mi, you can do better than that.
I really don't like Mail-mi's commitment to not even trying. Like I just don't understand why you're even signing up for these games. You're not even trying to be helpful here.
I get the impression only WW and I are interested in voting Mail-mi, and I want to get a lynch decision reached in the next couple of days before we get to the holiday weekend. But can we please, PLEASE not let Mail-mi get away with this crap for the whole rest of the game guys? I mean what if we go to LYLO with Mail-mi. If we let him coast that far the game is a coin flip. He's just daring us to never lynch him because "scum wouldn't do that" but I think scum absolutely would lurk and say "might as well just lynch me". And I'm worried the town who make it to the endgame are just going to give him a pass.
I do not understand why a VT claim, a commitment to unhelpfulness, and "sure, go ahead and lynch me" should be worth towncred. Do we give towncred for self-voting too?
@UoS, re : mail-mi. Don't lynch anti-town, lynch scum. I'm not particularly convinced mail-mi is town, but there are other people I find much scummier.
I don't really believe Seprix.ok, so about that rolecop confusion, yeah, maybe he thought if he investigated scum he would get a result of guilty that also included the role. Is that so crazy?
He didn't understand how cop actually workedAnother option is that ADK could be a cop? If I'm not mistaken, they can find out roles, right?
Then again, he also didn't get why a townie could know for sure there was a non-1-shot strongman without it being a scumslip.
And with 50% of the remaining scum being godfathers, cop isn't as strong as it sometimes is.
Still, I think we should leave Seprix alive for today, the non-Godfather scum may feel pressure to take this decision off our hands, and if not Seprix can start creating a better not-Godfather pool.
Once the Godfather is dead, the strongman has to take him out or die by POE. If Seprix lives past a certain point we can safely lynch fakeclaim!Seprix then, which is better than now.
Oh, I just said "strongman" was that a scumslip? No. No it was not.
Vote: Pacovf
dont announce whom you're investigatingAssuming I don't die.
It's not a bad assumption to make. There are plenty of good NK targets for scum and we might have a doctor. And no offense, but if you are a real cop, you're more likely to be disbelieved and lynched through it than, for example, Hydrad. And the Godfather has nothing to fear from you.
Play the game like you're going to see tomorrow. The odds are reasonable that you will.
Got it. I'll scout out whoever we don't lynch who is in second place, then.
And no when you said 'strongman' it wasn't a scumslip because you meant 'some kind of strongman' and that was a correct usage in your situation. In adk's situation that couldn't have been what it meant. It meant 'full strongman'. Scumslip.
Also, come on Mail-mi, you can do better than that.I see what you're saying. Id just rather lynch adk. And based on pavovf and adk each finding the other extremely scummy, I think it's less likely they're a team. So I'd currently have mail-mi as my seccond lynch option
I really don't like Mail-mi's commitment to not even trying. Like I just don't understand why you're even signing up for these games. You're not even trying to be helpful here.
I get the impression only WW and I are interested in voting Mail-mi, and I want to get a lynch decision reached in the next couple of days before we get to the holiday weekend. But can we please, PLEASE not let Mail-mi get away with this crap for the whole rest of the game guys? I mean what if we go to LYLO with Mail-mi. If we let him coast that far the game is a coin flip. He's just daring us to never lynch him because "scum wouldn't do that" but I think scum absolutely would lurk and say "might as well just lynch me". And I'm worried the town who make it to the endgame are just going to give him a pass.
I do not understand why a VT claim, a commitment to unhelpfulness, and "sure, go ahead and lynch me" should be worth towncred. Do we give towncred for self-voting too?
ok, so about that rolecop confusion, yeah, maybe he thought if he investigated scum he would get a result of guilty that also included the role. Is that so crazy?[/quote]
You mentioned that you wanted to reread D2 too. Is that going to happen? You haven't addressed the case on you either (mainly how consistently you've been deflecting away from Awaclus all D1).
he had a town result on chairs. He may still not know what a scum result looks like.And no when you said 'strongman' it wasn't a scumslip because you meant 'some kind of strongman' and that was a correct usage in your situation. In adk's situation that couldn't have been what it meant. It meant 'full strongman'. Scumslip.
It is so crazy. Because he already had a result on chairs! And because cop never works like that.
And ADK didn't say that. And you've pointed out yourself how a town player could know that we had a full strongman even if that is really what he meant.
I also didn't push against the Awaclus lynch nearly as hard as you did
Also, adk told seprix to claim and then immediately said "oh yeah, don't know why I did that." Nobody cares about thatsupposed to be a question mark at the end of that
Hehe, skip on ADK reminds me of myself on mail-mi in D1.
For what it's worth, I would be quite happy with an ADK lynch too.
For what it's worth, my thoughts after a quick readthrough: (great with the summarizes from pac and adk , made it easier to get somewhat of a picture)
I found ADK pretty scummy, especially around Seprix claim, seemed somewhat pushy.
I don't really get (or find) the case against pac. Could someone explain it to me?
And as I understand it we might have to lynch mail-mi and I guess I rather do it today than later on, so if you want a quick vote from me it's going to be on him..
not to mention offering to lynch him on day 2, which I still don't understand why pure lurker lynches are better later, if that's what pacovf claims he meant. Pacovf can you explain that?For what it's worth, my thoughts after a quick readthrough: (great with the summarizes from pac and adk , made it easier to get somewhat of a picture)
I found ADK pretty scummy, especially around Seprix claim, seemed somewhat pushy.
I don't really get (or find) the case against pac. Could someone explain it to me?
And as I understand it we might have to lynch mail-mi and I guess I rather do it today than later on, so if you want a quick vote from me it's going to be on him..
I feel like I mentioned it my megapost. When Awaclus was getting lynched, he had a number of posts where he arguing against, with the rather weak argument that a lurker lynch wouldn't give us much information.
Also to factor in is Awaclus voting for Chairs. Could Awaclus have voted for his scum buddy in a last ditch effort to throw everyone off after he died?
It's not that they are better later, it's that they are less worse. If you do a pure lurker lynch D1 and the flip is town, then you are just as uninformed during D2 as during D1, which means that the next lynch will be similarly random. However, if you do a pure lurker lynch, say, D2, and he flips town, then you start D3 with the information from the D1 lynch, which is infinitely better than no information at all.
wow, yeah. Would voting seprix now be the hammer?Also to factor in is Awaclus voting for Chairs. Could Awaclus have voted for his scum buddy in a last ditch effort to throw everyone off after he died?
Seprix first reference to chairs today. Someone try to convince me this comes from cop!seprix with town result on chairs.
Also to factor in is Awaclus voting for Chairs. Could Awaclus have voted for his scum buddy in a last ditch effort to throw everyone off after he died?
Seprix first reference to chairs today. Someone try to convince me this comes from cop!seprix with town result on chairs.
And pacovf's answer to that is he didn't consider mail-mi to be a lurker lynch as he had a genuine case against him.
And my (and others) answer to that is that there also was a real case against Awaclus.
This is simplified of course.
wow, yeah. Would voting seprix now be the hammer?Also to factor in is Awaclus voting for Chairs. Could Awaclus have voted for his scum buddy in a last ditch effort to throw everyone off after he died?
Seprix first reference to chairs today. Someone try to convince me this comes from cop!seprix with town result on chairs.
Analyzing the wagon come D1 end, and given Seprix's Law of Mafia Average (One/Two scum tends to jump on wagon, The rest stay off wagon), I think I can come to this conclusion:
One scum is in this list: [Crossed players not scum]Hydrad,Witherweaver, UmbrageOfSnow, Teproc, chairs,Seprix, A Drowned Kernel
One scum is in the other list:
Mail-Mi, Pacovf, Skip Wooznum
Also to factor in is Awaclus voting for Chairs. Could Awaclus have voted for his scum buddy in a last ditch effort to throw everyone off after he died?
Wait, I found this gem over here.1) town!Awaclus gets very indignant when he has a wagon on him, and continually talks about how not scum he's been acting.
This is true. Usually when I'm town, I have like 29384723984723 town tells that everyone is either not noticing or choosing to ignore on purpose, which is why I have to point them out. In this game, I haven't posted much because a lot of stuff has been going on IRL and other games, and that's why there aren't that many things that I can point out. The only notable thing is that I don't lurk as scum, but there's the problem that I don't usually lurk as town either.
This could easily be scum!WW defending Awaclus there. So if that's the case, we have WW/Awaclus/???. This is nice because I think everyone else bar maybe Chairs (and that's a maybe) is pretty much Town on the wagon.
We have mail-Mi, Pacovf and Skip. Skip seems townie, because he's quite overeager, which is typical for newer players. Pacovf has been strong town thus far.
Looks like a WW/Awaclus/Mail-Mi scum team so far.
Just acknowledge that I'm a virtual IC so we can move on from there.
I will not, because people can't just declare themselves innocent and expect everyone else to follow the Pied Piper without a reason.
I shoved all-in on Awaclus repeatedly and hard. Do you really think I'd do that as scum D1?
It's not likely, but there are these arguments to be made:
1. Scum could anticipate this line of thinking. But wait, Seprix. Why would chairs lynch Awaclus if they were scumbuddies? That makes no sense! Well, that leads to my next point.
2. Chairs could not back out of his read because it got too hot and he knew exactly what would entail if he backed out before the near inevitable lynch. Scum votes for scum sometimes to mix it up, I propose that is what you could have done. And then the wagon started hard, and then boom, you had a problem on your hands.
But all of this is theoretical and not too likely. So yes, I would consider you town.
Okay, so there is a godfather in this setup, so Seprix would have reason not to automatically believe his result... but his posts following his claim indicated that he wasn't paying much attention to the setup? But he was considering result-tampering roles as existing?
Seprix confused mail-mi and hydrad at the start of day 1, when he forgot he was voting for mail-mi and thought he was voting for hydrad. I don't think mail-mi is the third partner. Pacovf was probably the main pusher of the seprix lynch iirc. That leaves adk. vote: adk
Woot? I wasn't pushing you at all, yesterday.Woops. Got seprix mixed up with Awaclus.
Only on briefly, but claim time-
I was originally assigned as a VT but halfway through day two silverspawn informed that there had been a mix up and that I was now a Doctor. I have no idea what that's about but I protected Hydrad last night.
We should lynch mail-mi. vote: mail-mi
Its to the point of being so ridiculous would scum even be able to fakeclaim that?
Only on briefly, but claim time-why wouldn't you protect UoS (except for that you shot him)?
I was originally assigned as a VT but halfway through day two silverspawn informed that there had been a mix up and that I was now a Doctor. I have no idea what that's about but I protected Hydrad last night.
We should lynch mail-mi. vote: mail-mi
I will have to reread the flavour at some point to see if it is actually a novelization of player behaviour, or just random fanfic.oh, it isn't random, lyra. That reminds me, adk, you should flavor claim
Im not the best at this, but is there any way to counter this except on the chance that no T's were rolled and every PR claims?
Well actually full doctor+any non doctor PR would counter it, I think.
PPE: I'm not intending to hammer right now, but go for it. Also I'm going to bed for real now.this makes a lot more sense if adk is on a team with seprix and they discussed fakeclaims the night before and he lost himself and encouraged seprix to claim. I don't see town!adk saying something like this
BY the way, wouldn't ADK being a PR explain is "scumslip" ? I remember thinking that at some point, but can't remember and am too lazy/tired to figure it out. Will at some point, but if someone else does that's cool too.him being a cop, vig, mason, or one-shot RB would explain his scumslip. Him being a doctor does not. Also any two of those roles, or masons and anything, will counter.
Analyzing the wagon come D1 end, and given Seprix's Law of Mafia Average (One/Two scum tends to jump on wagon, The rest stay off wagon), I think I can come to this conclusion:in the bolded part, he says everyone on the wagon except maybe chairs and ww are town. Thats UoS, Teproc, hydrad, himself, and adk.
One scum is in this list: [Crossed players not scum]Hydrad,Witherweaver, UmbrageOfSnow, Teproc, chairs,Seprix, A Drowned Kernel
One scum is in the other list:
Mail-Mi, Pacovf, Skip Wooznum
Also to factor in is Awaclus voting for Chairs. Could Awaclus have voted for his scum buddy in a last ditch effort to throw everyone off after he died?
Wait, I found this gem over here.1) town!Awaclus gets very indignant when he has a wagon on him, and continually talks about how not scum he's been acting.
This is true. Usually when I'm town, I have like 29384723984723 town tells that everyone is either not noticing or choosing to ignore on purpose, which is why I have to point them out. In this game, I haven't posted much because a lot of stuff has been going on IRL and other games, and that's why there aren't that many things that I can point out. The only notable thing is that I don't lurk as scum, but there's the problem that I don't usually lurk as town either.
This could easily be scum!WW defending Awaclus there. So if that's the case, we have WW/Awaclus/???. This is nice because I think everyone else bar maybe Chairs (and that's a maybe) is pretty much Town on the wagon.
We have mail-Mi, Pacovf and Skip. Skip seems townie, because he's quite overeager, which is typical for newer players. Pacovf has been strong town thus far.
Looks like a WW/Awaclus/Mail-Mi scum team so far.
Massclaiming is a bad idea.
I don't know pacovf. I just don't feel great about the ADK lynch, I'm leaning mail-mi but really just by PoE at this point. Haven't had time to reread and frankly don't feel a great motivation to do so again (thought they'd probably be targeted rereads). I (and everyone) need to look at Seprix's interactions with people in general, to see if that points somewhere, or away from somewhere. I'm really not motivated to do it tonight, but I'll probably do it tomorow.
Can anyone state the case against me? As far as I can tell it's that I was lurking for awhile, which I admit happened and I apologize for. mail-mi has been lurking harder, and as he points out was off-wagon twice. My claim is the truth, which is all I have.
Also I received a message from silverspawn that implies that the change was due to the fact that the setup was originally incorrect, which I guess means that he gave scum the regular strongman when they were supposed to get the 1-shot and had to add an extra role. I'm not sure how I feel about the mod doing this kind of thing but I guess it's silverspawn's prerogative.this is him trying to subtly explain yesterday's scumslip. I want to lynch him soo bad.
.....ADK are among the higher reads I have.......honestly, I don't see the ADK case...these are back to back contradicting posts
Also I received a message from silverspawn that implies that the change was due to the fact that the setup was originally incorrect, which I guess means that he gave scum the regular strongman when they were supposed to get the 1-shot and had to add an extra role. I'm not sure how I feel about the mod doing this kind of thing but I guess it's silverspawn's prerogative.this is him trying to subtly explain yesterday's scumslip. I want to lynch him soo bad.
Personally, I think the time has come for the hammer. ADK is the obvious candidate for the last scum, and that won't change since it is impossible for him to prove in any certain way that he is a doctor. So we might as well be done with it.I'm going to bed soon, and it seems like Teproc is the only one arguing against it. vote: adk
Lynch mail-mi tomorrow kthxIt's not me. I already said, I'm just a VT.
Well, that was unexpected. I wonder if there is anything to learn from that nightkill choice.
I definitely have to reread, I don't have any strong reads right now. That will probably have to wait until the weekend. But before that, an innocent question: assume I am a 1-shot cop, and get a town result during N1. When should I claim it? Right away? When the godfather dies? When I am up to L-1?
I hate clever stunts, so I'm not entirely sorry for possibly screwing that up.
I hate clever stunts, so I'm not entirely sorry for possibly screwing that up.
Why do you hate fun, Teproc? :(
As for the NK, I think WW/hockey was very close to IC, and Hydrad is just completely absent, so he was the person I saw as most likely to die tonight, with Hydrad a close second. We don't know if scum has a full strongman either, could be an indication they don't, maybe ?
I hate clever stunts, so I'm not entirely sorry for possibly screwing that up.
Why do you hate fun, Teproc? :(
I know, I know. I just don't think "town traps" are as useful as people think they are, and this one in particular seemed like it could very easily be abused by scum!you, so there.
sorry I`m doing a very poor job of an IC. I guess I`m just more afraid of being wrong in this situation then if I was normal town since I theoretically should have more influence with people. I`ll try to do better.
I assume scum is a full strongman, and therefore knows there is at least one more pr, potentially some kind of cop, which could hurt him a lot, and scum wants to shoot someone who potentially is the pr, ergo not the IC. Note that scum did not shoot teproc, which is weird if teproc is town, although I get the sense that in practice this isnt a great argument.As for the NK, I think WW/hockey was very close to IC, and Hydrad is just completely absent, so he was the person I saw as most likely to die tonight, with Hydrad a close second. We don't know if scum has a full strongman either, could be an indication they don't, maybe ?
If there is an extra doctor, scum has a full strongman, per number of letters rolled. If there is no extra doctor, then it doesn't matter whether the strongman was 1-shot or not. So scum could have shot Hydrad if he wanted to, no problem.
vote: teproc, can someone remind me why he's confirmed town? He was like, 5th on wagon with awaclus. With seprix I don't remember him pushing seprix too much pre-claim. And then post-claim he started pushing him really hard. And then pac pointed out the utter ridiculousness of his claim. But its possible that teproc realized this right away and knew he was getting lynched and wanted towncred by pushing the lynch before it inevitably became obvious to everyone else that seprix was scum.
I assume scum is a full strongman, and therefore knows there is at least one more pr, potentially some kind of cop, which could hurt him a lot, and scum wants to shoot someone who potentially is the pr, ergo not the IC.
I wouldn't say he was putting too much pressure. At least most of it was still early enough for awaclus to get out of the lynch. After re-read it really seems plausible for teproc to be scum. I still need to read day 2vote: teproc, can someone remind me why he's confirmed town? He was like, 5th on wagon with awaclus. With seprix I don't remember him pushing seprix too much pre-claim. And then post-claim he started pushing him really hard. And then pac pointed out the utter ridiculousness of his claim. But its possible that teproc realized this right away and knew he was getting lynched and wanted towncred by pushing the lynch before it inevitably became obvious to everyone else that seprix was scum.
While Teproc took some time to vote for Awaclus, he was putting pressure on him fairly early. With Seprix, he made a case on him, voted for him relatively early, and didn't budge from there (save brief hesitation post-claim). I really don't see Teproc being scum here. Admittedly I still have to reread.I assume scum is a full strongman, and therefore knows there is at least one more pr, potentially some kind of cop, which could hurt him a lot, and scum wants to shoot someone who potentially is the pr, ergo not the IC.
Seems plausible.
Ok, so I think today's lynch should be between Seprix and pacovf. I'm pretty confident at least one of them is scum.this is where he votes seprix. He could totally be planning to switch later on to pacovf
vote: Seprix
skip, are you in favor of a massclaim ? Because if you are, I'll be waiting for that before doing rereads, provided mail-mi's around.I don't know if we should massclaim, I've barely ever played. That's why I asked.
Ok, well in this setup massclaim won't solve anything. It will, however, help clarify things. It makes it slightly harder for scum to fakeclaim (slightly), especially because it prevents them from doing so at lylo (which sounds far away but a mislynch here brings us to mylo already). On the town side, there's really no downside to it at this point.why is there no downside, they now know if we have any cops and who those cops are?
Basically we're going to do it at some point, and we might as well get it out of the way now.
Ok, well in this setup massclaim won't solve anything. It will, however, help clarify things. It makes it slightly harder for scum to fakeclaim (slightly), especially because it prevents them from doing so at lylo (which sounds far away but a mislynch here brings us to mylo already). On the town side, there's really no downside to it at this point.why is there no downside, they now know if we have any cops and who those cops are?
Basically we're going to do it at some point, and we might as well get it out of the way now.
why not?Ok, well in this setup massclaim won't solve anything. It will, however, help clarify things. It makes it slightly harder for scum to fakeclaim (slightly), especially because it prevents them from doing so at lylo (which sounds far away but a mislynch here brings us to mylo already). On the town side, there's really no downside to it at this point.why is there no downside, they now know if we have any cops and who those cops are?
Basically we're going to do it at some point, and we might as well get it out of the way now.
I'm not too worried about that.
Do you know how a roleblocker works, skip?I do, but your condescension as always is much appreciated :P
Is not condescension. I honestly want you to explain what a roleblocker can and cannot do.a roleblocker can block the night target's night actions. If the night action is a strongman kill, the kill will go through, unless another blocker targets the strongman or a doctor targets the nk target.
I will have to reread the flavour at some point to see if it is actually a novelization of player behaviour, or just random fanfic.oh, it isn't random, lyra. That reminds me, adk, you should flavor claim
in order of signup sheet
"Ahem. Player list left parenthesis by order of signing right parenthesis colon... wait no colon. I mean, yes colon, but I didn't mean to spell that out. Anyway. Twilight, Liara, Rarity, Colgate, Cold Autumn, Fluttershy, Pinkie Pie, Applebloom, Scootaloo, Rainbow Dash, Sweetie Belle, and Lyra. Welcome to Pony Mafia!"
in order of signup sheet
"Ahem. Player list left parenthesis by order of signing right parenthesis colon... wait no colon. I mean, yes colon, but I didn't mean to spell that out. Anyway. Twilight, Liara, Rarity, Colgate, Cold Autumn, Fluttershy, Pinkie Pie, Applebloom, Scootaloo, Rainbow Dash, Sweetie Belle, and Lyra. Welcome to Pony Mafia!"
Is cutie mark a MLP thing ? Or just a chairs thing ?
why not?Ok, well in this setup massclaim won't solve anything. It will, however, help clarify things. It makes it slightly harder for scum to fakeclaim (slightly), especially because it prevents them from doing so at lylo (which sounds far away but a mislynch here brings us to mylo already). On the town side, there's really no downside to it at this point.why is there no downside, they now know if we have any cops and who those cops are?
Basically we're going to do it at some point, and we might as well get it out of the way now.
I'm not too worried about that.
why not?Ok, well in this setup massclaim won't solve anything. It will, however, help clarify things. It makes it slightly harder for scum to fakeclaim (slightly), especially because it prevents them from doing so at lylo (which sounds far away but a mislynch here brings us to mylo already). On the town side, there's really no downside to it at this point.why is there no downside, they now know if we have any cops and who those cops are?
Basically we're going to do it at some point, and we might as well get it out of the way now.
I'm not too worried about that.
Hey skip, are you serious about your vote on Teproc?I think it's important that he's not really an IC and people should realize that. Call it paranoid if you want. I don't like lynching anyone else really all that much so im not really sure what to do. I wont have much time to think till sunday night
Awaclus and WW, you guys haven't weighed in on the Mail-mi wagon. What do you think of it?
Not a huge fan of it, but I could do it if there's nothing better. I think it's better than WW at least.
Can we just vote: awaclus and get rolling? I want to perform N1's NK already
Vote: chairs
Can we just vote: awaclus and get rolling? I want to perform N1's NK already
Vote: chairs
Why ?
Because he's scum.
@Awaclus : Do you want to be lynched ?
Not particularly.
Could you please take the time to explain to us why you think chairs is scum then ?
Well, I don't mind explaining it because it should be obvious anyway, but OTOH that also makes the explanation sort of pointless.
Hey Awalcus,
Let's say Joe and chairs come back to you and Seprix hammers (or whatever other scenario that leads to you being lynched you think is most probable).
What do you think of the wagon on you?
I think it looks like people are there to pressure me to post more rather than because they actually want to lynch me, which is pro-town, but not hard to do as scum. Chairs was scummy but he's no longer on my wagon.
I think it looks like people are there to pressure me to post more rather than because they actually want to lynch me, which is pro-town, but not hard to do as scum. Chairs was scummy but he's no longer on my wagon.
Okay, so who's scum off-wagon?
Chairs.
I do agree with WW that Seprix is pretty scummy here, though. I could lynch him if nobody else wants to lynch chairs.
I don't think scum!Awaclus means town!WW. I do think town!Awaclus heavily implies scum!WW.
Hi I'm Chairs and I like to get things backwards.
Of course he does, he's scum.
LEt's entertain you for a second. Your perceived scumteam is what ? Chairs/WW and ?
Not necessarily WW, although it could be him. Probably more like chairs/Seprix and then someone.
And, you know, what are your reads in general ? On the off chance that you're Morgrim!Awaclus, give us that at least.
Awaclus - obvtown
Teproc - towny
Hydrad - null
Joseph - Innocent Child
Witherweaver - slightly suspicious
skip wooznum - null
A Drowned Kernel - slightly suspicious
Seprix - scummy
mail-mi - null
UmbrageOfSnow - towny
chairs - scummy
pacovf - towny
I feel bad for thinking this (because it might encourage groupthink and dissuade people from carrying out their reads) but chairs feels a bit scummy for me right now. Like, enough for me to change my vote from mail-mi.actually this feels a lot like seprix had his vote on a partner and was itching to get it off.
vote: Chairs
Analyzing the wagon come D1 end, and given Seprix's Law of Mafia Average (One/Two scum tends to jump on wagon, The rest stay off wagon), I think I can come to this conclusion:would seprix put his only living partner on his projected scumteam?
One scum is in this list: [Crossed players not scum]Hydrad,Witherweaver, UmbrageOfSnow, Teproc, chairs,Seprix, A Drowned Kernel
One scum is in the other list:
Mail-Mi, Pacovf, Skip Wooznum
Also to factor in is Awaclus voting for Chairs. Could Awaclus have voted for his scum buddy in a last ditch effort to throw everyone off after he died?
Wait, I found this gem over here.1) town!Awaclus gets very indignant when he has a wagon on him, and continually talks about how not scum he's been acting.
This is true. Usually when I'm town, I have like 29384723984723 town tells that everyone is either not noticing or choosing to ignore on purpose, which is why I have to point them out. In this game, I haven't posted much because a lot of stuff has been going on IRL and other games, and that's why there aren't that many things that I can point out. The only notable thing is that I don't lurk as scum, but there's the problem that I don't usually lurk as town either.
This could easily be scum!WW defending Awaclus there. So if that's the case, we have WW/Awaclus/???. This is nice because I think everyone else bar maybe Chairs (and that's a maybe) is pretty much Town on the wagon.
We have mail-Mi, Pacovf and Skip. Skip seems townie, because he's quite overeager, which is typical for newer players. Pacovf has been strong town thus far.
Looks like a WW/Awaclus/Mail-Mi scum team so far.
even stronger words against mail-mi here. This I think was the post I was remembering from a previous re-read that lead me to believe mail-mi was town. Plus seprix mixing mail-mi and hydrad up earlier.Also, Mail-mi posted on-site (only a couple times but still) while we were lynching Awaclus conveniently without stopping in here to offer any thoughts or reactions.
Need to do more catching up, but need to respond to this. You guys put up like 8 pages when I was asleep, so I went and checked my other game, then had to leave before I could get through this one, then by the time I came back Awaclus was lynched.HOORAY Awaclus was scum!
I think we need to lynch off-wagon today.Final Vote Count Day 1Awaclus (7): Hydrad, Witherweaver, UmbrageOfSnow, Teproc, chairs, Seprix, A Drowned Kernel
Teproc (1): mail-mi
mail-mi (1): pacovf
chairs (2):Awaclus,Joseph2302
Not Voting (1): skip wooznum
With 12 alive, it took 7 to lynch.
...which, well, really narrows it down to Pacovf and Skip. Skip was acting pretty scummy yesterday, and not having your vote on someone is bad news, like he wanted to find an argument for anyone else but couldn't, but didn't want to vote his scum partner. (Haven't reread end of Day 1 yet so don't know if this is what his posts felt like). vote: skip wooznum
This is extremely bizarre. How did you know that D1 ended without also seeing the flip?
I'm with Pacovf, that IS a bit weird. Only strengthens my Mail-Mi read, so hey. Have an explanation? Because if you don't, I think I have my lynch candidate.
Not lynching Pacovf today. I liked that analysis. And ADK is now definitely my top lynch choice behind Skip.this is interesting. In pacovf's re-read, adk and seprix came off as almost equally scummy, yet mail-mi only expressed interest in lynching adk
vote: Seprix, the things you are saying are just way too weird. L-1?this doesn't seem like bussing from pacovf. Id imagine he would try to articulate himself clearer with a bus. Just my impression
Wait a second here.
WHAT!?
I read Mail-Mi's post as if Hydrad posted that. Yeah, I meant to vote for Mail-Mi. Wow.
What is your position on Mail-mi, again? I recall you saying that you didn't really feel like voting for him now.
I said Mail-Mi was scummy to me, but I didn't say why I didn't vote for him. Firstly, I confused Mail with Hydrad (3 hours of sleep does this), and when I realized my mistake, I was at L-1, so I didn't want to look like I was trying to throw votes around, hoping they stick. I want to be a bit more careful this time around, I always switch votes all of the time in my previous games. I feel like I should vote for Mail now.
vote: mail-mi
Seprix, what's your reasoning about Mail-mi?
He's only posted in this game a total of 3 times. It's almost like he's lurking. Also, his first post was about being scum partners, which I would let slide, as it's not evidence on it's own. But then his next two posts are just voting for Hydrad, an then unvoting for Hydrad, and nothing else. He hasn't contributed at all, he's totally lurking too because he posted a lot in the other Mafia game he's in, but not posting here? Hrmmm...
Sorry, I'm planning a stream, and have been busy with college. I don't have much to say in all honesty at the moment. Mail-mi still seems like a good lynch.
Do you have any opinions on a pacovf lynch?
Not really. Null for him so far.
quick reads
Awaclus
I didn't like the accusations against Awaclus, but I'm warming up to them. Unknown
Teproc (town) (rational)
I don't understand the arguments against Teproc. He's probably one of my top town reads so far. He's analyzing things pretty well. Town
skip wooznum
I don't know, there are times where I like Skip, times where I don't. I don't know what to think thus far. Scum
mail-mi
I don't need to explain my rationale, I already have before. Scum
chairs
Short posts with long stretches of inactivity. Do we really know who Chairs is? Unknown
pacovf
Asking the right questions, actually doing things right now. Town
I feel bad for thinking this (because it might encourage groupthink and dissuade people from carrying out their reads) but chairs feels a bit scummy for me right now. Like, enough for me to change my vote from mail-mi.
vote: Chairs
Analyzing the wagon come D1 end, and given Seprix's Law of Mafia Average (One/Two scum tends to jump on wagon, The rest stay off wagon), I think I can come to this conclusion:
One scum is in this list: [Crossed players not scum]Hydrad,Witherweaver, UmbrageOfSnow, Teproc, chairs,Seprix, A Drowned Kernel
One scum is in the other list:
Mail-Mi, Pacovf, Skip Wooznum
Also to factor in is Awaclus voting for Chairs. Could Awaclus have voted for his scum buddy in a last ditch effort to throw everyone off after he died?
We have mail-Mi, Pacovf and Skip. Skip seems townie, because he's quite overeager, which is typical for newer players. Pacovf has been strong town thus far.
Looks like a WW/Awaclus/Mail-Mi scum team so far.
HOORAY Awaclus was scum!
I think we need to lynch off-wagon today.
This is extremely bizarre. How did you know that D1 ended without also seeing the flip?
I'm with Pacovf, that IS a bit weird. Only strengthens my Mail-Mi read, so hey. Have an explanation? Because if you don't, I think I have my lynch candidate.
So you're saying my Law of Mafia Scum Averages isn't a law!? #triggered
I think Pacovf was just rushed, I'm not entirely sure he's scummy, though since he did try to defend Awaclus, I can give him a closer read. No harm.
So to answer your question, I'm not really sure who to vote for, because honestly, I don't see the ADK case. I'm not as confident on the Mail-Mi case, but I guess that's still my top read thus far.
Anyway I like what UoS is doing here. Vote: Seprix.
In Flavourless, Seprix was scum. He was jokey, considered D1 is pointless and random, he was very eager to get joseph (first wagon) lynched, then kinda backed off super quickly when it turned out bad for him. It's kinda similar from what is happening here, but one would guess that he would have mixed things up if he was scum again. Besides, I can't really compare with his town meta, I haven't really been following the recent games.
What is your position on Mail-mi, again? I recall you saying that you didn't really feel like voting for him now.
@pacovf re: Awaclus being a similar case to mail-mi. That's a good point, though I think Awaclus is much more likely to flip scum. But yeah, he's a meh day 1 lynch for the same reasons as mail-mi... and you'll notice he's not my preferred one.
There's a fundamental difference between the two: Awaclus would strictly be a lurker lynch. That means no accountability whatsoever if we lynch him. Nobody voting for mail-mi is doing so because of his lack of content, it's because what little there is, is scummy, so they won't be able to deflect responsibility tomorrow (should he happen to flip town).
That being said, I don't like the way Awaclus has been lurking. Most lurkers are just passive, not checking the game all that often, then posting a quick thought or two when they log in. Awaclus has been following the game closely, and just choosing not to post anything. Normally I would argue very strongly against a D1 lurker lynch, but I wouldn't feel so strongly about it in this specific case. Still, I would prefer a lynch elsewhere.
The problem is that you offer three lynches. WW and skip are town, IMHO, and Awaclus is a lurker lynch. So there's no common ground between our positions.
Is anyone voting (or wanting to vote) for Awaclus for a reason other than him lurking? If he flips town, are you all going to throw your hands up in the air and say "but he was lurking!"?
I'm all up for lynching lurkers... starting on D2. Otherwise, I would rather lynch someone that actually gets us somewhere even if he flips town. Own your votes, people!
Again, I haven't had the time to reread Awaclus, but while UoS is really persuasive, the case against Awaclus is still just that he is lurking. Lurker lynches are bad in D1, because if he flips town, we have next to nothing. I would totally be for an Awaclus lynch for D2 (assuming nothing better comes up from the flips), because he has earned it many times over, but I don't think I want to lynch him today.
WHAT TIME IS IT?
REREADING TIME
So, from the Awaclus lynch, ADK and Seprix look absolutely horrible. UoS is guaranteed town, WW is very likely to be town too, and Teproc and chairs look pretty good (the former for inciting an Awaclus lynch, but unfortunately only voting very late; the latter for decisive votes, the first of which being quite weird).
From the WW wagon, ADK and chairs look bad, and I don't think anyone looks particularly good.
Then there's mail-mi, who has been completely absent from this game. I don't think I can say I have a case on him anymore, but I could be ok with a lurker!mail-mi lynch later on (thank God, now when people will accuse me of inciting a lurker-lynch, they will be right!). Skip Wooznum just fits a town playstyle too well for me to want to lynch him with the weak evidence against him.
Awaclus made a pretty ballsy vote on Seprix back when he had a wagon on him, so considering both wagons, and between ADK and Seprix, I definitely prefer vote: ADK.
Awaclus made a pretty ballsy vote on Seprix back when he had a wagon on him, so considering both wagons, and between ADK and Seprix, I definitely prefer vote: ADK.
I think you're giving too much weight to the Seprix wagon. It was very, very early on in the day, and I know we've had some day 1 quicklynches recently, but it was still unlikely to go all the way. I suppose it's worth some town cred for Seprix, but his interactions with Awaclus so perfectly fit what I'd expect from a scumpartner that I can't overlook it.
Well, I am just using Occam's razor. Seprix looks a bit worse than ADK from his interactions with Awaclus, but it becomes a toss up between the two when you consider WW's wagon*. So Awaclus's early vote on Seprix tips the scales towards ADK. I would still be happy with a Seprix lynch, though.
*Yes, I know that wagons on town are not as informative as wagons on scum, and that we aren't 100% sure that WW is town. That doesn't mean we should ignore it.QuoteADK is a good lynch as well, not my preferred but I'll join it if needed. His interactions with Awaclus are more subtle but that's to be expected since ADK is more experienced. It's just that when you lynch scum on day 1, I think the simplest answer tends to be the right one (and here the simplest answers are Seprix and pacovf).
Considering our playstyles, do you really think that ADK being more subtle here is actually so good an argument that you put him on an entirely different willing-to-lynch category than Seprix and I?
Honestly, after finishing the reread, ADK seems quite a bit scummier than I am, but then again, I am terribly biased.QuotePeople need to stop giving massive towncred for just doing work btw. People like pacovf will absolutely do that as scum, especially when their day 1 interactions are as damning as they are here. It's fine to give some towncred for it (it's a big reason why I prefer lynching Seprix to pacovf), but just like mail-mi lurking doesn't mean he's scum, pacovf (or me, or WW etc.) doing rereads doesn't mean they're town.
Can we ignore this perfectly good point you are raising just because it would serve me? :P
Sure, we can wait, don't worry.
In the meantime, Seprix, care to defend yourself or put your vote down somewhere?
I'm not too focused on the game. ADK and Pacovf could be announcing they're scum and I wouldn't know. College is hard :(
...did Seprix just concede the game here?
I see what UoS is saying regarding scum!mail-mi but I don't think you go that route as scum.
I think in Awaclus's position you avoid mentioning your partner entirely or toss a meaningless vote on them to throw off suspicion... which is to say, Seprix now looks scummier to me.
When Awaclus voted for Seprix, it was L-2, and the wagon was quickly growing. Granted, it was very early, but still.
I prefer an ADK lynch to a Seprix one, but would be happy with either. A mail-mi lynch would be fine too.
I would like to hear ADK's defense before we lynch anyone, but I am not averse to people getting votes down already. Especially Seprix and mail-mi (skip is not happening today).
vote: Seprix, the things you are saying are just way too weird. L-1?
And I'm still just a VT. I think Pacovf has been taking way too much charge with this game, and everyone is following him like sheep. vote: pacovf just in case I'm not right now.
And I'm still just a VT. I think Pacovf has been taking way too much charge with this game, and everyone is following him like sheep. vote: pacovf just in case I'm not right now.
...have we been following the same game?
Seprix, OTOH, is constantly following the flow of town on pacovf, null when consensus haven't formed yet, then town when everyone sees him as town, then slight doubt when cases are made against him. Easily the player that fits the best so far.this is big for me. It's swaying me towards pacovf here. And seprix was pushing mail-mi day 2 as was pointed out. I'm ready to hammer.
Vote: Seprix
Stop voting my scum partner kthxbye
Vote: Hydrad
HOORAY Awaclus was scum!
I think we need to lynch off-wagon today.Final Vote Count Day 1Awaclus (7): Hydrad, Witherweaver, UmbrageOfSnow, Teproc, chairs, Seprix, A Drowned Kernel
Teproc (1): mail-mi
mail-mi (1): pacovf
chairs (2):Awaclus,Joseph2302
Not Voting (1): skip wooznum
With 12 alive, it took 7 to lynch.
...which, well, really narrows it down to Pacovf and Skip. Skip was acting pretty scummy yesterday, and not having your vote on someone is bad news, like he wanted to find an argument for anyone else but couldn't, but didn't want to vote his scum partner. (Haven't reread end of Day 1 yet so don't know if this is what his posts felt like). vote: skip wooznum
Not lynching Pacovf today. I liked that analysis. And ADK is now definitely my top lynch choice behind Skip.And of course, not a single post by mail-mi anywhere near this.
Already told you why.
I don't know what to add, so I guess I can answer any questions you guys have for me.
You could start by moving your vote to someone that might actually get lynched today.QuoteAlso, I'm going on a week long vacation next week with no internet access. So maybe it might be a good idea to lynch me just because of that.
...
Erm, I think skip might be lynched today.
I am town, but I'm just a VT and I haven't been contributing to the game at all anyway, so I'm the best town you could possibly lynch.
I don't remember anyone else saying that they wanted to lynch skip today. Nobody has built a real case on him either. It seems quite unlikely.
Well, I guess I could vote: seprix then.
unvote I believe seprix.
Hm. There's more there than I expected frankly.
Told you so! You still have 1h45 to change your vote. Go ahead, I promise I won't hold your temporary fit of madness against you.
Hm. There's more there than I expected frankly.
Told you so! You still have 1h45 to change your vote. Go ahead, I promise I won't hold your temporary fit of madness against you.
Hm. There's more there than I expected frankly.
Told you so! You still have 1h45 to change your vote. Go ahead, I promise I won't hold your temporary fit of madness against you.
If others change their minds on you I will, but at this point it doesn't look likely.
Which, by the way, we need Hydrad or skip around to get a lynch here. No lynch is probably horrible ? Well actually it's not that bad, we still get 2 shots at lynching scum but still.
vote: no lynch sorry to steal the hammer :P
Well, this definitely wasn't the kill I expected... what ?
I guess I'll reread chairs now... this all looks too neat though. Won't get to it before monday though. In the meantime, no one vote, lylo, please reread stuff, etc. That includes you mail-mi, if you're town you've got serious work to do here.
@chairs : I did reread mail-mi late last day so you've got that.
Also one of us is mail-mi.
Can we just vote: awaclus and get rolling? I want to see what N1's NK will be already so we can work with it D2.
Yay a reread post I can get behind!
vote: seprix, you convinced me.
Unrelated, the more tight-lipped Awaclus gets/feels, the more I want to lynch him. This feels a lot like how I reacted to suspicion in D1 of HP Mafia.
make that 5/7.
vote: awaclus.
I find Seprix's actions here a little questionable.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who seems a possible scum!Seprix.
If I were Awaclus, at least one of my partners would be "null". He only has two people on that list at null.
Let's lynch skip.
scum!seprix = scum!skip.
vote: seprix. Seprix pacovf scum team with pacman gambit on an adk mislynch into maybe a we mislynch before we trash seprix and he comes up roses no matter what.
Just acknowledge that I'm a virtual IC so we can move on from there.
vote: teproc
Trying to make sense of this. I guess chairs decided to bus early day 1, and decided to act very suspicious of Serix then without actually pushing his lynch, since his on-wagon vote was the hammer.
Man, that means both scum bussed on day 1 two. Weird game.
mail-mi, please take the time to reread. Hopefully it should clear things up ? Not sure what else there is I can do to convince you.
People should have just sheeped me Day 1.
Just read the Mafia QT. Yeah, I don't think you could have predicted chairs turning on you, and skip would have done so too, although maybe mail-mi would have voted for skip rather than you. I was mad at you (not really) by how deftly you managed to wave away my towncred for the Seprix lynch before I could capitalize on it, but it turned out to be for the best ^^
The way you engaged me during lylo was the lynchpin, but I was 100% sold on D5 that mail-mi was Town, so skip dying sealed it. I just needed you to engage so mail-mi would have your reads (as I was hoping you'd somehow distort the truth) on him to make it so.
I see. What sold you on town!mail-mi ?This^^
@silverspawn : I guess it's technically against the rules, but really once scum comes out after the lylo lynch, there's no reason to wait for the mod to show up to start post-game discussion.
I was going to write flavor for the finale, but now it's pointless since the post game phase has already started - don't do that in future games, please - posting before the official flip, that is. technically, you're all violating the mafia ruleset.
Can we do some theory talk on having an IC in this setup?
It looks like it's of almost dare I say negative utility to town as it gives scum the ability to disarm the UB. Please discuss.
or just that UB doesn't inherit IC powersCan we do some theory talk on having an IC in this setup?
It looks like it's of almost dare I say negative utility to town as it gives scum the ability to disarm the UB. Please discuss.
It also makes scum's first NK automatic, especially if they have Strongman (assuming the day 1 lynch wasn't a town PR). Even if it's only 1-shot, it's probably the right call for them to use it N1 to kill the IC and neutralize the UB. To clarify the problem : the UB is an IC anyway since he can't profitably be counterclaimed.
The problem is that you then need to completely change the whole M letter. A single M can't give you two masons, and there's no other way that makes sense, so you'd need to a whole other category of roles instead.
A variation on IC that can either be revealed when the player PM's the mod, or is automatically revealed on a certain day could fix the UB-disarming power, but that's significantly stronger than a regular IC is.
I have a lot of wacky ideas. Honestly, my first game I make one day (when I figure it out, I want to co mod with someone to make sure I don't fuck up) I want to probably do bastard. :p
I have a lot of wacky ideas. Honestly, my first game I make one day (when I figure it out, I want to co mod with someone to make sure I don't fuck up) I want to probably do bastard. :p
if it's bastard, you can't really fuck it up.
how is a one-shot cop an IC variant?A variation on IC that can either be revealed when the player PM's the mod, or is automatically revealed on a certain day could fix the UB-disarming power, but that's significantly stronger than a regular IC is.
I mean, you can also just add a one-shot cop. That's kind of an IC variant.
how is a one-shot cop an IC variant?A variation on IC that can either be revealed when the player PM's the mod, or is automatically revealed on a certain day could fix the UB-disarming power, but that's significantly stronger than a regular IC is.
I mean, you can also just add a one-shot cop. That's kind of an IC variant.
A variation on IC that can either be revealed when the player PM's the mod, or is automatically revealed on a certain day could fix the UB-disarming power, but that's significantly stronger than a regular IC is.I mean you sort of say what the problem with your solution is so I'll just say, yes I agree with that.
well maybe they're both scumhow is a one-shot cop an IC variant?A variation on IC that can either be revealed when the player PM's the mod, or is automatically revealed on a certain day could fix the UB-disarming power, but that's significantly stronger than a regular IC is.
I mean, you can also just add a one-shot cop. That's kind of an IC variant.
he creates an IC night 1, then claims it day 2.
There aren't that many setups where you get an IC anyway.yes but why are there any?
because IC's are super cool!There aren't that many setups where you get an IC anyway.yes but why are there any?
A variation on IC that can either be revealed when the player PM's the mod, or is automatically revealed on a certain day could fix the UB-disarming power, but that's significantly stronger than a regular IC is.I mean you sort of say what the problem with your solution is so I'll just say, yes I agree with that.
At it's core I think the issue is that having the UB inherit IC powers makes for an incredibly weak UB. (Teproc already pointed out the UB is an IC anyway, which I meant to point out but forgot. Thx for that.) The most direct way to fix that is to just say it doesn't inherit IC powers. (Or that UB doesn't waste its inheriting ability on a power it already has, if we're keeping with that parenthetical logic.)
Realizing now that you might be answering that with your next sentence, I just don't understand what it means. Whats a balancing measure?There aren't that many setups where you get an IC anyway.yes but why are there any?
ah I didn't realize that was the question. Tbh I haven't really thought about it, I just assumed it was too strong for town. If that's the question, well, I'll have to think about it. And I don't know what you're getting at in the second sentence or what you're arguing for.A variation on IC that can either be revealed when the player PM's the mod, or is automatically revealed on a certain day could fix the UB-disarming power, but that's significantly stronger than a regular IC is.I mean you sort of say what the problem with your solution is so I'll just say, yes I agree with that.
At it's core I think the issue is that having the UB inherit IC powers makes for an incredibly weak UB. (Teproc already pointed out the UB is an IC anyway, which I meant to point out but forgot. Thx for that.) The most direct way to fix that is to just say it doesn't inherit IC powers. (Or that UB doesn't waste its inheriting ability on a power it already has, if we're keeping with that parenthetical logic.)
The question is whether significantly stronger than an IC is too strong for town though. And with the delayed-reveal IC the UB is worse if town is doing really well and hasn't lost any PRs yet, and better if town is doing poorly. Plus it sticks to the similar-types theme of the letters.
Let's say IC were to read "If you are still alive on Day 4 (or whatever, this is an example), the mod will publicly confirm that you are town."I understand all this. What im asking is what is the relationship, if any, between the first and second sentences in this post:
If town is doing really well and only gets VTs killed and is killing scum, then that weakens the UB a bit because, as happened in this game, the UB inherits this power, which isn't so great.
If town is doing poorly and lynched or got NK'd a PR, then the UB is used up. But there's a larger window for that than with a regular IC.
And some kind of IC is nice because it forms a similar function to mason, and all the letters stick to a theme.
The question is whether significantly stronger than an IC is too strong for town though. And with the delayed-reveal IC the UB is worse if town is doing really well and hasn't lost any PRs yet, and better if town is doing poorly.
I mean it's still strictly better, but not by so much I think it makes town too strong.Ah, but edge case: Lynched D1
they wouldn't lynch him cuz he would claim. And if it gets to the he claimed was the reveal day and the mod doesn't make him IC they can just lynch him then.I mean it's still strictly better, but not by so much I think it makes town too strong.Ah, but edge case: Lynched D1
they wouldn't lynch him cuz he would claim. And if it gets to the he claimed was the reveal day and the mod doesn't make him IC they can just lynch him then.I mean it's still strictly better, but not by so much I think it makes town too strong.Ah, but edge case: Lynched D1
they wouldn't lynch him cuz he would claim. And if it gets to the he claimed was the reveal day and the mod doesn't make him IC they can just lynch him then.I mean it's still strictly better, but not by so much I think it makes town too strong.Ah, but edge case: Lynched D1
You have clearly not played enough games of mafia yet.
Also, that would allow scum to fake-claim IC. Which seems kind of fun.not really though. It's a fakeclaim that just gets you lynched later, seems awful. That's exactly why nobody claiming it would get lynched through the claim. And even if nobody got lynched through the claim, it's still awful for a fakeclaim cuz it gets you lynched later.
I haven't, but I don't see how it's clear.they wouldn't lynch him cuz he would claim. And if it gets to the he claimed was the reveal day and the mod doesn't make him IC they can just lynch him then.I mean it's still strictly better, but not by so much I think it makes town too strong.Ah, but edge case: Lynched D1
You have clearly not played enough games of mafia yet.
I haven't, but I don't see how it's clear.they wouldn't lynch him cuz he would claim. And if it gets to the he claimed was the reveal day and the mod doesn't make him IC they can just lynch him then.I mean it's still strictly better, but not by so much I think it makes town too strong.Ah, but edge case: Lynched D1
You have clearly not played enough games of mafia yet.
I haven't, but I don't see how it's clear.they wouldn't lynch him cuz he would claim. And if it gets to the he claimed was the reveal day and the mod doesn't make him IC they can just lynch him then.I mean it's still strictly better, but not by so much I think it makes town too strong.Ah, but edge case: Lynched D1
You have clearly not played enough games of mafia yet.
So... Is there anything special I need to know in modding a Mafia game?
I haven't, but I don't see how it's clear.they wouldn't lynch him cuz he would claim. And if it gets to the he claimed was the reveal day and the mod doesn't make him IC they can just lynch him then.I mean it's still strictly better, but not by so much I think it makes town too strong.Ah, but edge case: Lynched D1
You have clearly not played enough games of mafia yet.
Didn't someone get lynched same day in this game despite claiming?
Also the role allows scum to fakeclaim it early to avoid a D1 scum flip.
CTRL+F IG :DOh, that game. That game was meaningless in terms of actual reads.really? I thought when you posted things like "g dee Dee bsjehdhbiskwbwbwkdodjvenkdjwj" it meant you were town (and then part of a cult). But no, i've read through quite a few game logs
You got nothing on me. :)
On my play? I'm just like Faust and IG and Hydrad. I'm pretty much always scummy. :p
has this been on your mind for the entire game?CTRL+F IG :DOh, that game. That game was meaningless in terms of actual reads.really? I thought when you posted things like "g dee Dee bsjehdhbiskwbwbwkdodjvenkdjwj" it meant you were town (and then part of a cult). But no, i've read through quite a few game logs
You got nothing on me. :)
On my play? I'm just like Faust and IG and Hydrad. I'm pretty much always scummy. :p
Really? I don't think I'm suspected much at all anymore. People joke about it a lot, but I've never felt like I get more suspicion than anyone else--I mean maybe, but I like never get lynched.
has this been on your mind for the entire game?
lol. naw. I just now searched for iterations of my username to see if I was mentioned at all :'(
Narcissistic...maybe.
Um, clicked quote and thought I could edit my post for some reason. I really have no explanation aside from sleep deprivation.