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[skip wooznum]

well are we done with the other stuff?

I mean that's up to you.  I'm willing to vote for you now if that's what you mean.

that's not what I mean. Why would you vote for me?

[UmbrageOfSnow]

Also, Mail-mi posted on-site (only a couple times but still) while we were lynching Awaclus conveniently without stopping in here to offer any thoughts or reactions.

I think this is unfair and should not be used against players. Mafia is not the only reason people might want to check this forum for, and following the developments of a game of Mafia takes longer than pretty much anything else in here. Just because someone has posted elsewhere at the same time is not proof that they also read the game and chose not to say anything.

That being said, the fact remains that he didn't say anything.

I will answer your accusation and post some thought either later tonight or tomorrow. I am in a rush right now.

Fair enough, and it was his other game he was posting in, so maybe he didn't have time to read this.

But I'm still willing to hold it against him, maybe I'm not fair, whatever.  Deliberate lurking doesn't seem that implausible to me.

Yeah I'm about to head out too.

PPE Skip: Yes, I know that isn't what you meant.  I'm being a bit of a jerk here deliberately.  I should knock that off.  I would vote for you because I found your reaction to me somewhat scummy.  You seemed more on edge than maybe you should have.  It could be town, but I find it a tad more likely to come from scum.  And I think your reasoning on ADK seems made up.  Not just poor reasoning, but artificial reasoning.  Reasoning that you didn't actually reason.

You'll note I'm not actually voting you over pacovf at the moment, I'm just threatening to.  Talk to us about pacovf.

[skip wooznum]

Yeah I'm surprised by the VT claim too, and Seprix's play around this is a bit weird, as is Pacovf's and ADK's.

Yeah, but well, I am at work.

I did not find his play weird until after the flip. I assumed you already found it weirdbecause you thought awac was scum. I didnt. But neither did pacovf. I found it scummy that he acknowledged his weird play. And also, like you pointed out, he repeatedly said awaclus was a bad lynch while supporting a similar one. I still want to talk about the scumslip

[Witherweaver]

[Witherweaver]

Haven't read last couple pages.  Hydrad being an IC was great; he was a prime candidate for me today.

Just from memory, my primary lynch candidates are Chairs and Pacovf.

[Witherweaver]

Oh, and my reasoning on not WW was that WW still had a lot of suspicion on him comparatively.

I was pretty sure I was going to get killed last night.  I had also forgotten we had an IC.  Better him than me, I say.

[Witherweaver]

Personally, barring a good argument, my lynch pool is down to 2 people:

skip wooznum or Joseph2302.

skip wooznum.

Fabricating town slips? o_O

[Witherweaver]

Also, I sort of forgot abput this

Is it just me or does this ww/teproc fight seem a tad scum vs. scum?

The only way to know for sure is to lynch one of them.

how do you know we'll know for sure after lynching only one of them?  Do you know neither is scum?

but I think that's a scumslip from adk

?

[Witherweaver]

I'm comfortable removing Teproc and UoS from my lynch pool today. Probably WW as well.

Seprix I don't see as super scummy but I'll have to go back and read him.

chairs and skip and mail-mi are the scummiest. pacovf was also off-wagon, but I remember finding him towny yesterday for some reason, so I'll go re-examine that.

PPE: I also fail to see how that's supposed to be a scumslip.

Probably? Were you not here for the IC flag thing?!

[Witherweaver]

Personally, barring a good argument, my lynch pool is down to 2 people:

skip wooznum or Joseph2302.

skip wooznum.

Okay, PPE everything from after this post, I'll read it after I advise that I am apparently really REALLY sold that Joseph is Mafia every game, I even made this mistake in my personal QT when musing on who I thought should be D2's lynch.

Seems less fabricated.

[chairs]

I kind of feel entertained that you think I'd have been clever enough to gambit a fabricated townslip.

[chairs]

Also, the reason I knew Awaclus was scum by the end of D1? Because he acted JUST LIKE ME when I was caught scum D1 in HP mafia. I think I might have even been a roleblocker.

[skip wooznum]

Since we're doing the would-not-lynch list thing, mine is woefully short:
When I read this, I got to thinking: he seems hyper aware of this, and in this game it looks to me (and this is where I need input from people who've actually played with him a bunch rather than skimmed some games) that he's been explaining and defending himself even less than usual.

I'm postulating that he's overcompensating for his known scumtell.

Thoughts?

I think it's pretty likely, actually. I can hammer if you'd like, I'm down for an Awaclus lynch.

leaning town on seprix

[pacovf]

Let's talk about that not-lynching-lurkers-except-Mail-Mi thing.

That is grossly misrepresenting my position. Lynching a lurker and a lurker-lynch is not the same thing. The first means that you have reasons to believe a given lurker is scum. The second means lynching a lurker because lurkers are harder to read. I never proposed to lynch mail-mi because he was lurking. But the original case on Awaclus was very, very close to that, so I was against it, because it gives scum a free lynch with no accountability.

The final real-day of D1, you formulated a case on Awaclus that was better than a lurker lynch. I recognized that it was good, but I asked for some time to mull it over (and back then you were of the same opinion than me). Then the activity level of the thread exploded, and it became clear that Awaclus was going to be lynched right there (after your post here, there was no other possible way the day would end).

I could not follow all that while at work, and that was bothering me. I wanted the time to read Awaclus's posts, to see if I agreed with your case. I wanted the time to check if Awaclus was soft-claiming a PR. I wanted the time to analyze the wagon on Awaclus, to see the reasons people were voting for him, and if we could hold them accountable. It greatly annoyed me that I couldn't get involved in the development of the game. So I argued against an Awaclus lynch, because it seemed like the only way to get the time to do all that. And well, that arguing was rushed, because I was at work.

Now I have to reread D1 (not now now though) to reevaluate my reads.

But I'm still willing to hold it against him, maybe I'm not fair, whatever.  Deliberate lurking doesn't seem that implausible to me.

There's a difference between the plausible deniability of "he didn't post anything at that time, maybe he was deliberately lurking!" and "I checked his activity on the forum, and I know that he deliberately chose to not post anything at that time!". The second is much more incriminating, but requires a specific reading of information not even available on the game thread. I am not ok with that.

[Seprix]

Awaclus - obvtown
Teproc - towny
Hydrad - null
Joseph - Innocent Child
Witherweaver - slightly suspicious
skip wooznum - null
A Drowned Kernel - slightly suspicious
Seprix - scummy
mail-mi - null
UmbrageOfSnow - towny
chairs - scummy
pacovf - towny

Think we can learn anything from this list?

[pacovf]

No.

[mail-mi]

Also, Mail-mi posted on-site (only a couple times but still) while we were lynching Awaclus conveniently without stopping in here to offer any thoughts or reactions.

Need to do more catching up, but need to respond to this. You guys put up like 8 pages when I was asleep, so I went and checked my other game, then had to leave before I could get through this one, then by the time I came back Awaclus was lynched.

[chairs]

If I were Awaclus, at least one of my partners would be "null". He only has two people on that list at null.

Let's lynch skip.

[mail-mi]

HOORAY Awaclus was scum!

I think we need to lynch off-wagon today.

Final Vote Count Day 1

Awaclus (7): Hydrad, Witherweaver, UmbrageOfSnow, Teproc, chairs, Seprix, A Drowned Kernel
Teproc (1): mail-mi
mail-mi (1): pacovf
chairs (2): Awaclus, Joseph2302

Not Voting (1): skip wooznum

With 12 alive, it took 7 to lynch.

...which, well, really narrows it down to Pacovf and Skip. Skip was acting pretty scummy yesterday, and not having your vote on someone is bad news, like he wanted to find an argument for anyone else but couldn't, but didn't want to vote his scum partner. (Haven't reread end of Day 1 yet so don't know if this is what his posts felt like). vote: skip wooznum

[Seprix]

Analyzing the wagon come D1 end, and given Seprix's Law of Mafia Average (One/Two scum tends to jump on wagon, The rest stay off wagon), I think I can come to this conclusion:

One scum is in this list: [Crossed players not scum]

Hydrad, Witherweaver, UmbrageOfSnow, Teproc, chairs, Seprix, A Drowned Kernel

One scum is in the other list:

Mail-Mi, Pacovf, Skip Wooznum

Also to factor in is Awaclus voting for Chairs. Could Awaclus have voted for his scum buddy in a last ditch effort to throw everyone off after he died?

Wait, I found this gem over here.

1) town!Awaclus gets very indignant when he has a wagon on him, and continually talks about how not scum he's been acting.

This is true. Usually when I'm town, I have like 29384723984723 town tells that everyone is either not noticing or choosing to ignore on purpose, which is why I have to point them out. In this game, I haven't posted much because a lot of stuff has been going on IRL and other games, and that's why there aren't that many things that I can point out. The only notable thing is that I don't lurk as scum, but there's the problem that I don't usually lurk as town either.

This could easily be scum!WW defending Awaclus there. So if that's the case, we have WW/Awaclus/???. This is nice because I think everyone else bar maybe Chairs (and that's a maybe) is pretty much Town on the wagon.

We have mail-Mi, Pacovf and Skip. Skip seems townie, because he's quite overeager, which is typical for newer players. Pacovf has been strong town thus far.

Looks like a WW/Awaclus/Mail-Mi scum team so far.

[Seprix]

Oh, and my reasoning on not WW was that WW still had a lot of suspicion on him comparatively.

I was pretty sure I was going to get killed last night.  I had also forgotten we had an IC.  Better him than me, I say.

Not to mention WW not dying D1 is pretty odd, though I guess the safe lynch would be Joseph.

[skip wooznum]

That post from ww was acusing awac of not being defensive, not defending him. And ww not dying isnt strange at all

[A Drowned Kernel]

If I were Awaclus, at least one of my partners would be "null". He only has two people on that list at null.

Let's lynch skip.

Why not mail-mi?

[pacovf]

Also, Mail-mi posted on-site (only a couple times but still) while we were lynching Awaclus conveniently without stopping in here to offer any thoughts or reactions.

Need to do more catching up, but need to respond to this. You guys put up like 8 pages when I was asleep, so I went and checked my other game, then had to leave before I could get through this one, then by the time I came back Awaclus was lynched.

HOORAY Awaclus was scum!

I think we need to lynch off-wagon today.

Final Vote Count Day 1

Awaclus (7): Hydrad, Witherweaver, UmbrageOfSnow, Teproc, chairs, Seprix, A Drowned Kernel
Teproc (1): mail-mi
mail-mi (1): pacovf
chairs (2): Awaclus, Joseph2302

Not Voting (1): skip wooznum

With 12 alive, it took 7 to lynch.

...which, well, really narrows it down to Pacovf and Skip. Skip was acting pretty scummy yesterday, and not having your vote on someone is bad news, like he wanted to find an argument for anyone else but couldn't, but didn't want to vote his scum partner. (Haven't reread end of Day 1 yet so don't know if this is what his posts felt like). vote: skip wooznum

This is extremely bizarre. How did you know that D1 ended without also seeing the flip?

[Seprix]

Also, Mail-mi posted on-site (only a couple times but still) while we were lynching Awaclus conveniently without stopping in here to offer any thoughts or reactions.

Need to do more catching up, but need to respond to this. You guys put up like 8 pages when I was asleep, so I went and checked my other game, then had to leave before I could get through this one, then by the time I came back Awaclus was lynched.

HOORAY Awaclus was scum!

I think we need to lynch off-wagon today.

Final Vote Count Day 1

Awaclus (7): Hydrad, Witherweaver, UmbrageOfSnow, Teproc, chairs, Seprix, A Drowned Kernel
Teproc (1): mail-mi
mail-mi (1): pacovf
chairs (2): Awaclus, Joseph2302

Not Voting (1): skip wooznum

With 12 alive, it took 7 to lynch.

...which, well, really narrows it down to Pacovf and Skip. Skip was acting pretty scummy yesterday, and not having your vote on someone is bad news, like he wanted to find an argument for anyone else but couldn't, but didn't want to vote his scum partner. (Haven't reread end of Day 1 yet so don't know if this is what his posts felt like). vote: skip wooznum

This is extremely bizarre. How did you know that D1 ended without also seeing the flip?

I'm with Pacovf, that IS a bit weird. Only strengthens my Mail-Mi read, so hey. Have an explanation? Because if you don't, I think I have my lynch candidate.