/tag
Goodness 21 players is a big undertaking.
argh, having no clue what the setup might be is killing me. I would totally /in if the setup was open, or mostly open. Don't expect you to change it of course, but that's what's holding me up here.
Ah hell.
Volt, what's the last game we played in together? Chicken Mafia?
Oh my. /tag at least.
Oh my. /tag at least.
Just /in already.
Well, I've never played forum Mafia before, but it looks like a hoot! I've also never seen Community or Modern Family for that matter...
Would you guys be terribly annoyed if I joined and blundered my way through? :) Gotta start somewhere you know
Well, I've never played forum Mafia before, but it looks like a hoot! I've also never seen Community or Modern Family for that matter...
Would you guys be terribly annoyed if I joined and blundered my way through? :) Gotta start somewhere you know
This is filling up faster than I originally anticipated it would. Only 7 spots left!
This is filling up faster than I originally anticipated it would. Only 7 spots left!
Mine's been open since before yours and it was only at 4 for the longest time!This is filling up faster than I originally anticipated it would. Only 7 spots left!
This game gets 13 people in 3 days. Mine gets 7 people in 5 months. :(
Mine's been open since before yours and it was only at 4 for the longest time!This is filling up faster than I originally anticipated it would. Only 7 spots left!
This game gets 13 people in 3 days. Mine gets 7 people in 5 months. :(
In other news, we just need 2 more for BMXIII!
FIFYMine's been open since before yours and it was only at 4 for the longest time!This is filling up faster than I originally anticipated it would. Only 7 spots left!
This game gets 13 people in 3 days. Mine gets 7 people in 5 months. :(
In other news, we just need 2 more for BMXIII!
Oh really? :o
2 Someones sign up for mail-mi's game!
How often would I be expected to post?
Constable Reggie, it seems we may be in for a fight against the Blorgons sooner than expected...
Constable Reggie, it seems we may be in for a fight against the Blorgons sooner than expected...
Indeed! We have some ace recruits. I say, Anyone not signing up for this adventure is stonking Barmy!
Constable Reggie, it seems we may be in for a fight against the Blorgons sooner than expected...
Indeed! We have some ace recruits. I say, Anyone not signing up for this adventure is stonking Barmy!
I get 0 of these references.
Constable Reggie, it seems we may be in for a fight against the Blorgons sooner than expected...
Indeed! We have some ace recruits. I say, Anyone not signing up for this adventure is stonking Barmy!
I get 0 of these references.
Same. And I've actually seen a decent number of episodes of both the shows.
16.
17.
18.
19.
21.
16.
17.
18.
19.
21.
We are missing a spot in the signups. So we still need 6 players, not five.
This needs to start, I need to actually play games instead of talking about them in spectator QTs!
This needs to start, I need to actually play games instead of talking about them in spectator QTs!
At least you will be able to play in this one! Now I just have to cheer from the sideline. But don't worry I made up a pretty good cheer.
Oh bing, bong, sing along. Your team's Al Gore 'cause your views are wrong!
(http://i.qkme.me/3r69or.jpg)This.
I'm just waiting for Modern Family jokes. Those ones I'll get.
New info added to Post 2. If you are /in this game, definitely read it, and follow instructions.
New info added to Post 2. If you are /in this game, definitely read it, and follow instructions.
Specify: not familiar with either show.
I'm somewhat familiar with Community.
Also, if the last week or so is any indication, I am going to be pretty busy while this game is happening. So busy, in fact, that I actually considered dropping out today. I don't want to do that, though, because I'm really looking forward to this game. But expect a lurkier Dsell than you're used to.
I'm somewhat familiar with Community.
Also, if the last week or so is any indication, I am going to be pretty busy while this game is happening. So busy, in fact, that I actually considered dropping out today. I don't want to do that, though, because I'm really looking forward to this game. But expect a lurkier Dsell than you're used to.
Quiet you. They'll lynch Dsell when they're good and ready.
Now that Dr. Who is done, no excuse not to sign up!KCGM.
Anyone else who hasn't popped in yet?
/in
looking forward to my first online game!
Not sure if someone on the forms has to vouch for me, but I played an IRL game with Voltaire and I think he'll vouch for me.
I will not get any of the Community or Modern Family references.
Not sure if someone on the forms has to vouch for me, but I played an IRL game with Voltaire and I think he'll vouch for me.
...I think I know bocaJ's real name...
-_-...I think I know bocaJ's real name...
I think he's Liam.
Get it?
/in
looking forward to my first online game!
Not sure if someone on the forms has to vouch for me, but I played an IRL game with Voltaire and I think he'll vouch for me.
I will not get any of the Community or Modern Family references.
You mean, you cant' trust yourself?/in
looking forward to my first online game!
Not sure if someone on the forms has to vouch for me, but I played an IRL game with Voltaire and I think he'll vouch for me.
I will not get any of the Community or Modern Family references.
voltaire?!? That dude's crap! Word is he recently lost a mafia game. I can't trust people who lose.
...I think I know bocaJ's real name...
I think he's Liam.
Get it?
You mean, you cant' trust yourself?/in
looking forward to my first online game!
Not sure if someone on the forms has to vouch for me, but I played an IRL game with Voltaire and I think he'll vouch for me.
I will not get any of the Community or Modern Family references.
voltaire?!? That dude's crap! Word is he recently lost a mafia game. I can't trust people who lose.
Constable Reggie, do you see what I spy? It seems a timeline hitherto unknown may be darkening...
L-1
Somebody hammer!
Feel I shouldn't miss this either.
/in
Not familiar with the shows.
Feel I shouldn't miss this either.
/in
Not familiar with the shows.
Can't wait for your plan ;)
Very tempted to hammer...DO IT NOW
Very tempted to hammer...
what's in it for me? I guess I get a PM... that's pretty good.You don't get lynched in BMXIII.
Cool. Cool, cool, cool.
....October.....?
....October.....?
October 19th! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LV7M_WeGX8)
Listen, just send me my PM.
Community starts its 4th season on October 19th.
Can't be a coincidence.
Google tells me no.Community starts its 4th season on October 19th.
Can't be a coincidence.
Did it though? Did it?
Listen, just send me my PM.
Listen, just send me my PM.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyzCT-SyWGkListen, just send me my PM.
I wonder what it's like being in three games at once....Really confusing.
I wonder what it's like being in three games at once....Really confusing.
I-I think so.I wonder what it's like being in three games at once....Really confusing.
And by confusing, he means AWEsome. Isn't that right, Abed?
So, by day 3, we start "normal" lynch rules. I'm interpreting this to mean that by D3, would should be at about a normal game size (~13). With 2 lynches, that's 6 people who need to die N1 and N2. Assuming that we're supposed to have roughly 13 by the start of D3, that's 3 NKs per night. 15 by D3 if there's 2 NKs/night. 17 if there's 1 NK/night, but that seems a little high to start normal lynch rules, so I'm going to be assuming there's at least 2 scum factions / SKs out there.
Flavor needs more modern family.
Hey everyone!
Does IC have any superpowers? Or is his power just "Everyone "Knows I'm Not Mafia" Man?Usually it's just the second.
Does IC have any superpowers? Or is his power just "Everyone "Knows I'm Not Mafia" Man?Usually it's just the second.
vote: bocaJ because he's new, and scum.Softclaim Cop?
vote: bocaJ because he's new, and scum.Softclaim Cop?
vote: Voltgloss then.
vote: bocaJ because he's new, and scum.Softclaim Cop?
vote: Archetype
Why would you out something you think might be a softclaim?
Why are we even.... No one had night actions N0! this was a day start!vote: bocaJ because he's new, and scum.Softclaim Cop?
vote: Archetype
Why would you out something you think might be a softclaim?
This.
However: vote: Voltaire.
The mistake Arch made (and yes, it's a mistake) isn't one made by scum. Why bother? If he's RIGHT, it decreases the chances the chance the "cop" will actually get lynched. And if he's right, he could tell his scummates at night without bothering to draw attention to himself. It's an unnecessary situation for him. Scum tend to look for breadcrumbs silently, not publicly.
BUT, you're absolutely right that it's a mistake. And it's EASY for scum to jump on very real mistakes to push mislynches. Your point is valid, and that gives you a greater chance of being scum than Arch in my experience.
4. Roles with Night actions will not be able to submit an action on Night 0 (i.e. during the confirmation stage), unless your Role PM specifically allows it.
From the opening post.
All PMs are sent. Man, that was a lot of PMs.
Confirm by reply PM. Ask role questions by PM. Really, ask.
This thread is locked and moving.
point taken.4. Roles with Night actions will not be able to submit an action on Night 0 (i.e. during the confirmation stage), unless your Role PM specifically allows it.
From the opening post.
To further support this, if you looked at the thread title during confirmation stage, it read "N0".
4. Roles with Night actions will not be able to submit an action on Night 0 (i.e. during the confirmation stage), unless your Role PM specifically allows it.
From the opening post.
Hello all! Hello new faces! Hello old faces!
I have not played our followed any mafia games on here in some time. Have there been any large developments or seismic shifts I should know about? I am really asking, I feel sorta behind.
Hello all! Hello new faces! Hello old faces!
I have not played our followed any mafia games on here in some time. Have there been any large developments or seismic shifts I should know about? I am really asking, I feel sorta behind.
Yes! Robz absolutely loves smiley faces now! ;) ;D 8)
vote: bocaJ because he's new, and scum.Softclaim Cop?
vote: Archetype
Why would you out something you think might be a softclaim?
This.
However: vote: Voltaire.
The mistake Arch made (and yes, it's a mistake) isn't one made by scum. Why bother? If he's RIGHT, it decreases the chances the chance the "cop" will actually get lynched. And if he's right, he could tell his scummates at night without bothering to draw attention to himself. It's an unnecessary situation for him. Scum tend to look for breadcrumbs silently, not publicly.
BUT, you're absolutely right that it's a mistake. And it's EASY for scum to jump on very real mistakes to push mislynches. Your point is valid, and that gives you a greater chance of being scum than Arch in my experience.
I have a plan.Hellloooooo xerion
Volt, I need a soft-deadline please, and then I'll lay it out 48 hours beforehand.
I have a plan.
Volt, I need a soft-deadline please, and then I'll lay it out 48 hours beforehand.
Thanks mail-mi, I was worried no one would pay attention to me this game, seeing as I'm new. Let me return the favor:Just so you know, you should bold your vote, else it is likely to not be counted.
vote:mail-mi
I'll also just throw out that I will abstain from lynching anyone who will "vote:wedge salad". Much obliged.
<meta>Also, since I have zero familiarity with Modern Family and Community, and only a brief description of my character, with that description, I'll be basing any flavor put into my character on Sheldon's mother from Big Bang Theory, with just a little more stress</meta>
Volt, I need a soft-deadline please, and then I'll lay it out 48 hours beforehand.
Ah, my dear Reggie, they are a rambunctious lot. Pity they're not smarter. But then again, they can't all know about quantum spanners and Blorgons...
if 10:00PM forum time is EDT, then that's 4AM here. But I should be able to throw a vote down before going to bed.Volt, I need a soft-deadline please, and then I'll lay it out 48 hours beforehand.
Howzabout Friday, September 20, at 10:00 p.m. forum time? If that poses problems for anyone for timezone or other reasons, please advise.
Galz, that would mean your plan should be outlined tomorrow evening around 10.
Volt, I need a soft-deadline please, and then I'll lay it out 48 hours beforehand.
Howzabout Friday, September 20, at 10:00 p.m. forum time? If that poses problems for anyone for timezone or other reasons, please advise.
Galz, that would mean your plan should be outlined tomorrow evening around 10.
I have a plan.I am intrigued. Also, okay w/ soft deadline, and unvote
Volt, I need a soft-deadline please, and then I'll lay it out 48 hours beforehand.
I support the soft deadline.Okay. vote: Dsell Everybody pile on!
I don't want to just wait around until we hear Galz' plan, however.
I support the soft deadline.Okay. vote: Dsell Everybody pile on!
I don't want to just wait around until we hear Galz' plan, however.
For an even more foolproof plan, though, let's go with vote: mail-mi.
Soft deadline works for me. We can't force a lynch without 11 though, and I doubt we'll get to 11 -- in all honesty I see this going to the end of the day and us deadlining out, which isn't that bad of a thing here since we can't risk no-lynch. No reason we can't try for Friday, but I don't know how we'll get 11 votes on someone by then.But isn't it a problem if we deadline out that people may not have the chance to claim? I mean, you'd usually claim at L-1 (maybe earlier in a game this big), that's just not going to happen. Or should whoever has the most votes 24 hours before the deadline just claim?
I love voting mail-mi too, but the one time I lynched him was not a happy day...For an even more foolproof plan, though, let's go with vote: mail-mi.
I'm always up for a vote: mail-mi.
Also, Walrus, it would be bastard for Voltgloss to be scum and since this isn't bastard, I'd recommend moving your vote elsewhere.
Soft deadline works for me. We can't force a lynch without 11 though, and I doubt we'll get to 11 -- in all honesty I see this going to the end of the day and us deadlining out, which isn't that bad of a thing here since we can't risk no-lynch. No reason we can't try for Friday, but I don't know how we'll get 11 votes on someone by then.But isn't it a problem if we deadline out that people may not have the chance to claim? I mean, you'd usually claim at L-1 (maybe earlier in a game this big), that's just not going to happen. Or should whoever has the most votes 24 hours before the deadline just claim?
Soft deadline works for me. We can't force a lynch without 11 though, and I doubt we'll get to 11 -- in all honesty I see this going to the end of the day and us deadlining out, which isn't that bad of a thing here since we can't risk no-lynch. No reason we can't try for Friday, but I don't know how we'll get 11 votes on someone by then.But isn't it a problem if we deadline out that people may not have the chance to claim? I mean, you'd usually claim at L-1 (maybe earlier in a game this big), that's just not going to happen. Or should whoever has the most votes 24 hours before the deadline just claim?
Almost definitely, I would think. If we are past the soft deadline, having the most votes might as well be L-1, basically.
This is exactly why Archetype just got townier. It doesn't make Voltaire scummier; it's just as likely that townVoltaire made a mistake not thinking thoroughly through whether that's a scumArch-mistake or townArch-mistake.vote: bocaJ because he's new, and scum.Softclaim Cop?
vote: Archetype
Why would you out something you think might be a softclaim?
This.
However: vote: Voltaire.
The mistake Arch made (and yes, it's a mistake) isn't one made by scum. Why bother? If he's RIGHT, it decreases the chances the chance the "cop" will actually get lynched. And if he's right, he could tell his scummates at night without bothering to draw attention to himself. It's an unnecessary situation for him. Scum tend to look for breadcrumbs silently, not publicly.
BUT, you're absolutely right that it's a mistake. And it's EASY for scum to jump on very real mistakes to push mislynches. Your point is valid, and that gives you a greater chance of being scum than Arch in my experience.
Too many words but not enough thoughts. This post feels really empty. Vote: Twisted4. Roles with Night actions will not be able to submit an action on Night 0 (i.e. during the confirmation stage), unless your Role PM specifically allows it.
From the opening post.
Oh hm. But that's not a game-specific rule, right? That's a forum-specific rule that's been in every setup?
Regardless, whether or not anyone had a N0 action shouldn't be a topic of discussion.
I thought Arch's "softclaim" post was joking, and I agree with Galz' analysis that it's just not a post that scum would want to make. It doesn't lead to the "claimer" being any scummier. It was a silly post, but not one that leads to Arch being scummy or rolefishing, I think.
Hey guys! I'm going to be fairly busy until at least Wednesday night, just a heads up.Ok, thanks for letting us know that you're super concerned about being labelled a lurker.
I'm all for a super short D1. Long D1 just makes re-reads impossible and (in my experience) scum victory.Yes. townpoints here too. This is more important than people realize.
Having multiple people claim and stay alive is not good,Explain.
Having multiple people claim and stay alive is not good,Explain.
Hey guys! I'm going to be fairly busy until at least Wednesday night, just a heads up.Ok, thanks for letting us know that you're super concerned about being labelled a lurker.
For an even more foolproof plan, though, let's go with vote: mail-mi.
I'm always up for a vote: mail-mi.
Also, Walrus, it would be bastard for Voltgloss to be scum and since this isn't bastard, I'd recommend moving your vote elsewhere.
Haha, you mean there are no mod-sponsored bastard elements :P
But if we're going to be super serious here, I would have to vote: Voltaire
because:
1.) I agree with Galzria that jumping on Archetype like that felt kind of suspicious. Also, I'm curious to see Galz's plan, because I sure as hell don't have one.
2.) Why so quick to vote mail-mi, if only kind of as a joke?
3.) Why are you the one who expresses concern over my Voltgloss vote, which was obviously a temporary joke?
4.) Your name also starts with 'Volt', which is scummy :)
Not much to go on at all but I don't want to just be lurking and joking about. It would have been irresponsible of me to leave the IC hanging at L-10. I apologize Voltaire if this is totally baseless.
Hey guys! I'm going to be fairly busy until at least Wednesday night, just a heads up.Ok, thanks for letting us know that you're super concerned about being labelled a lurker.
I am super-curious why you pointed this out about Nkirbit, but not about Robz, when they said literally the exact same thing.
Too many words but not enough thoughts. This post feels really empty. Vote: Twisted4. Roles with Night actions will not be able to submit an action on Night 0 (i.e. during the confirmation stage), unless your Role PM specifically allows it.
From the opening post.
Oh hm. But that's not a game-specific rule, right? That's a forum-specific rule that's been in every setup?
Regardless, whether or not anyone had a N0 action shouldn't be a topic of discussion.
I thought Arch's "softclaim" post was joking, and I agree with Galz' analysis that it's just not a post that scum would want to make. It doesn't lead to the "claimer" being any scummier. It was a silly post, but not one that leads to Arch being scummy or rolefishing, I think.Hey guys! I'm going to be fairly busy until at least Wednesday night, just a heads up.Ok, thanks for letting us know that you're super concerned about being labelled a lurker.
Hello everyone!
townread on shraeye for laying out his thoughts (that i agree with) in a borderline aggressive and blunt way.
vote: twistedarcher
Vote: Eevee for buddying with my top scumread!It that actually a scum thing to do?
On the other hand, Voltaire answering to every single one of Walrus' points does seem a bit over the top.
Okay, this is a valid point. That said, I don't especially like the way you're referring to yuma ("he would say this too") to strengthen your point - I mean, it feels a little like scum backing up their argument. Then again, it might just be a meta reference I'm not getting.On the other hand, Voltaire answering to every single one of Walrus' points does seem a bit over the top.
Allow me to be yuma for a moment. Because I think he would say this too were he a player.
Please to be make sure you are not finding people scummy for playing the game. Because in this situation, if I internalize your thinking and go "how can I show I'm town to faust?" (and proving you are town to your fellow town [assuming faust is town] is super-important as we've shown many times POE is the best, most vicious scumhunting tool), the answer from now on is "ignore about half of the stuff directed at me." That's not good.
To address your point specifically, it was clear that multiple people were thinking like Walrus (and who knows how many people might as they catch up on the thread, like half the town hasn't checked in yet I think?), and I was speaking to them as well.
Okay, this is a valid point. That said, I don't especially like the way you're referring to yuma ("he would say this too") to strengthen your point - I mean, it feels a little like scum backing up their argument. Then again, it might just be a meta reference I'm not getting.On the other hand, Voltaire answering to every single one of Walrus' points does seem a bit over the top.
Allow me to be yuma for a moment. Because I think he would say this too were he a player.
Please to be make sure you are not finding people scummy for playing the game. Because in this situation, if I internalize your thinking and go "how can I show I'm town to faust?" (and proving you are town to your fellow town [assuming faust is town] is super-important as we've shown many times POE is the best, most vicious scumhunting tool), the answer from now on is "ignore about half of the stuff directed at me." That's not good.
To address your point specifically, it was clear that multiple people were thinking like Walrus (and who knows how many people might as they catch up on the thread, like half the town hasn't checked in yet I think?), and I was speaking to them as well.
I think I'll unvote
I think Voltaire gets suspected for this same stuff during day 1 a lot. I've never understood it at all.
I think Voltaire gets suspected for this same stuff during day 1 a lot. I've never understood it at all.
When's the last time Voltaire seriously got suspicion on a D1, though? I can't recall him ever being lynched D1, or even close to it...
Town read on faust. Also, it's nice to meet you, hello!Nice to meet you to :) Can't say I really have a read on you, though.
No offense taken, it would read dishonest and therefore scummy to me if you did!Town read on faust. Also, it's nice to meet you, hello!Nice to meet you to :) Can't say I really have a read on you, though.
There seems to be much volatility surrounding Shraeye, and I can understand the reasons why, but I'd rather let the man defend himself at least so we could sort it out better. I saw what happened to the Town Cop in that other game, and while this is obviously not the same situation, I'm trying at least to take a measured stance.
I'm fine with my vote where it is for right now, although it is liable to change. In case it wasn't clear I'm a noob too so it's not like I have much of a baseline to go by.
Hello everyone!
townread on shraeye for laying out his thoughts (that i agree with) in a borderline aggressive and blunt way.
vote: twistedarcher
vote: chairs because today is pretend you're ashersky day.
To create interactions to get the game going, I like to participate in the random voting stage by voting for someone who often signals his towniness well to me but hasn't managed to so yet.Hello everyone!
townread on shraeye for laying out his thoughts (that i agree with) in a borderline aggressive and blunt way.
vote: twistedarcher
Why the vote, Eevee?
To create interactions to get the game going, I like to participate in the random voting stage by voting for someone who often signals his towniness well to me but hasn't managed to so yet.
There seems to be much volatility surrounding Shraeye, and I can understand the reasons why, but I'd rather let the man defend himself at least so we could sort it out better. I saw what happened to the Town Cop in that other game, and while this is obviously not the same situation, I'm trying at least to take a measured stance.
I'm fine with my vote where it is for right now, although it is liable to change. In case it wasn't clear I'm a noob too so it's not like I have much of a baseline to go by.
Rest assured, what happened to the Town Cop in New Mafia is not going to happen in this game.
What did you think of Volt's rebuttal?
Hello everyone!
townread on shraeye for laying out his thoughts (that i agree with) in a borderline aggressive and blunt way.
vote: twistedarcher
Town read on faust. Also, it's nice to meet you, hello!
I did this to him (what you just did to me) in B2B, and he replied to me with what I just said to you. So yeah, meta.
Also a town read on you, btw.
No offense taken, it would read dishonest and therefore scummy to me if you did!Town read on faust. Also, it's nice to meet you, hello!Nice to meet you to :) Can't say I really have a read on you, though.
easy explanation. I noticed it when nkirbit did it. I ddn't notice that Robz did it.Hey guys! I'm going to be fairly busy until at least Wednesday night, just a heads up.Ok, thanks for letting us know that you're super concerned about being labelled a lurker.
I am super-curious why you pointed this out about Nkirbit, but not about Robz, when they said literally the exact same thing.
easy explanation. I noticed it when nkirbit did it. I ddn't notice that Robz did it.Hey guys! I'm going to be fairly busy until at least Wednesday night, just a heads up.Ok, thanks for letting us know that you're super concerned about being labelled a lurker.
I am super-curious why you pointed this out about Nkirbit, but not about Robz, when they said literally the exact same thing.
I think Voltaire gets suspected for this same stuff during day 1 a lot. I've never understood it at all.From Walrus' post, it looks like Voltaire is being suspected for...answering everything? That makes no sense.
I have no idea how this quote from Eevee is an agreement with anything Ive said.To create interactions to get the game going, I like to participate in the random voting stage by voting for someone who often signals his towniness well to me but hasn't managed to so yet.
Really? In context it just looks like you're agreeing with shraeye.
Having multiple people claim and stay alive is not good,Explain.
Person A: Don't lynch me! I'm a VT!
Person B: Don't lynch me! I'm a VT!
Person C: Don't lynch me! I'm a Doctor!
Scum: Cool! More info on setup/who we should kill/everything! Keep claiming, town!
easy explanation. I noticed it when nkirbit did it. I ddn't notice that Robz did it.Hey guys! I'm going to be fairly busy until at least Wednesday night, just a heads up.Ok, thanks for letting us know that you're super concerned about being labelled a lurker.
I am super-curious why you pointed this out about Nkirbit, but not about Robz, when they said literally the exact same thing.
Better explanation: It's not scummy when Robz does it.
I have no idea how this quote from Eevee is an agreement with anything Ive said.To create interactions to get the game going, I like to participate in the random voting stage by voting for someone who often signals his towniness well to me but hasn't managed to so yet.
Really? In context it just looks like you're agreeing with shraeye.
my vote had nothing to do with it being pretend you're ashersky day. I have a good reason to self-vote. what do you think it is? I'm dead serious though. Why has nobody else voted for me yet? this is unacceptable.vote: chairs because today is pretend you're ashersky day.
?? seems like you must have another reason to be voting yourself.
liopoil, too, said "this is what we are doing today."
Did a third person also self-vote? I'll have to check that later when I have more time.
Volt, I need a soft-deadline please, and then I'll lay it out 48 hours beforehand.
Howzabout Friday, September 20, at 10:00 p.m. forum time? If that poses problems for anyone for timezone or other reasons, please advise.
Galz, that would mean your plan should be outlined tomorrow evening around 10.
So far I don't want to lynch TA, faust, or Walrus (or Voltgloss obviously) today. Maybe more people than that, I'd need to do a re-read but I'm not "ready" for that yet.
We must have very different playstyles because there is nobody I would say I "don't want to lynch" because I think they're townie seeming yet... I mean, there are several people I don't want to lynch because I don't suspect them and lynching a proven strong player for no reason is stupid. But that goes without saying.
You really have substantive enough town reads that you can already say you would be opposed to lynching these guys today?
We must have very different playstyles because there is nobody I would say I "don't want to lynch" because I think they're townie seeming yet... I mean, there are several people I don't want to lynch because I don't suspect them and lynching a proven strong player for no reason is stupid. But that goes without saying.
You really have substantive enough town reads that you can already say you would be opposed to lynching these guys today?
Yes, this is a "different playstyles" thing. See the recently-completed KCGM game for me using this (quite successfully!) there. Basically anyone who is going to be easier to read (usually because they're a high poster) at a later day isn't a good D1 lynch. All this assumes scum isn't obvscum D1 (this is not always, but almost always, true).
75% of the time, this amounts to the same thing as lynch all lurkers.
He wasn't saying lots of posting, he was saying readability. I feel like on average, I'm in the middle of all posters, but I'm really hard to read.
Oy... Lots of people... Also, has anybody seen my pen? I seem to have lost it somewhere...so since you said joking aside, you too are seriously self-voting?
Joking aside, I'll Vote: sudgy because he hasn't posted yet. Hurry up!
false. FoS: GalzriaHello all! Hello new faces! Hello old faces!
I have not played our followed any mafia games on here in some time. Have there been any large developments or seismic shifts I should know about? I am really asking, I feel sorta behind.
Yes! Robz absolutely loves smiley faces now! ;) ;D 8)
I have a plan.more FoS because plan-in-closed-setup-how-in-the-world.....?
Volt, I need a soft-deadline please, and then I'll lay it out 48 hours beforehand.
Vote: Liopoil. Guys, this is what we're doing today. Anyone have any guesses to what my alignment must be?obv. jester
ack. I am quite V/LA wednesday-friday. monday perhaps? weekend is fine for me too, but probably not for others.Volt, I need a soft-deadline please, and then I'll lay it out 48 hours beforehand.
Howzabout Friday, September 20, at 10:00 p.m. forum time? If that poses problems for anyone for timezone or other reasons, please advise.
Galz, that would mean your plan should be outlined tomorrow evening around 10.
agree with voltaire. defending yourself is never ever scummy.On the other hand, Voltaire answering to every single one of Walrus' points does seem a bit over the top.
Allow me to be yuma for a moment. Because I think he would say this too were he a player.
Please to be make sure you are not finding people scummy for playing the game. Because in this situation, if I internalize your thinking and go "how can I show I'm town to faust?" (and proving you are town to your fellow town [assuming faust is town] is super-important as we've shown many times POE is the best, most vicious scumhunting tool), the answer from now on is "ignore about half of the stuff directed at me." That's not good.
To address your point specifically, it was clear that multiple people were thinking like Walrus (and who knows how many people might as they catch up on the thread, like half the town hasn't checked in yet I think?), and I was speaking to them as well.
ack. I am quite V/LA wednesday-friday. monday perhaps? weekend is fine for me too, but probably not for others.Volt, I need a soft-deadline please, and then I'll lay it out 48 hours beforehand.
Howzabout Friday, September 20, at 10:00 p.m. forum time? If that poses problems for anyone for timezone or other reasons, please advise.
Galz, that would mean your plan should be outlined tomorrow evening around 10.
Oy... Lots of people... Also, has anybody seen my pen? I seem to have lost it somewhere...so since you said joking aside, you too are seriously self-voting?
Joking aside, I'll Vote: sudgy because he hasn't posted yet. Hurry up!
tempted to vote for you just because yuma can't. He wouldn't vote for me because I have a legitamit reason to self-vote.
my vote had nothing to do with it being pretend you're ashersky day. I have a good reason to self-vote. what do you think it is? I'm dead serious though. Why has nobody else voted for me yet? this is unacceptable.
my vote had nothing to do with it being pretend you're ashersky day. I have a good reason to self-vote. what do you think it is? I'm dead serious though. Why has nobody else voted for me yet? this is unacceptable.
Tell me your good reason. I can't think of any roles where it's good for town to lynch town (based on the fact that this was described as not RMM) and so I don't see how you'd be "revealing" your role if this is the case. If you have one.
Okay, you know what I'll actually tell you.my vote had nothing to do with it being pretend you're ashersky day. I have a good reason to self-vote. what do you think it is? I'm dead serious though. Why has nobody else voted for me yet? this is unacceptable.
Tell me your good reason. I can't think of any roles where it's good for town to lynch town (based on the fact that this was described as not RMM) and so I don't see how you'd be "revealing" your role if this is the case. If you have one.
Okay, you know what I'll actually tell you.my vote had nothing to do with it being pretend you're ashersky day. I have a good reason to self-vote. what do you think it is? I'm dead serious though. Why has nobody else voted for me yet? this is unacceptable.
Tell me your good reason. I can't think of any roles where it's good for town to lynch town (based on the fact that this was described as not RMM) and so I don't see how you'd be "revealing" your role if this is the case. If you have one.
I am town.
I have a secondary win condition. I get a secondary win if somebody accuses me of being a jester at any point during the game.
I think it's quite likely other players have a secondary wincon. So here's my offer:
If anyone accuses me of being a jester, and therefore giving me a secondary win, I will gladly fuffill their secondary wincon for them if possible (as long as I don't have to do something that hurts town to do it).
So, who wants to give me a secondary win? (nothing will actually happen if you do this, all that happens is that at the end of the game ash says, "oh btw, these players get a secondary win" and I get included in that list).
Also, Unvote, I don't actually want to be lynched
I have a secondary win condition. I get a secondary win if somebody accuses me of being a jester at any point during the game.[/b]
I agree, but I do not think this detracted from town winning. getting it out of the way now.I have a secondary win condition. I get a secondary win if somebody accuses me of being a jester at any point during the game.[/b]
That's what I was afraid of. I have a secondary win con as well. But I would vastly prefer it if the town played to their primary win-con. Y'know, lynching scum. kthnx.
You get a secondary win for THAT?...yeah. What's so special about that? is everyone else's much harder to achieve?
You get a secondary win for THAT?...yeah. What's so special about that? is everyone else's much harder to achieve?
You get a secondary win for THAT?...yeah. What's so special about that? is everyone else's much harder to achieve?
I would agree, except you said "Joking aside" which suggest you are setting jokes aside and saying something serious...Oy... Lots of people... Also, has anybody seen my pen? I seem to have lost it somewhere...so since you said joking aside, you too are seriously self-voting?
Joking aside, I'll Vote: sudgy because he hasn't posted yet. Hurry up!
tempted to vote for you just because yuma can't. He wouldn't vote for me because I have a legitamit reason to self-vote.
Self voting is so obvious a joke at the beginning that it should have been obvious I was joking. You seem to be more aggressive than I remember you being... Vote: liopoil
...yeah. Does anybody know where my pen is?
I didn't do it right away because:You get a secondary win for THAT?...yeah. What's so special about that? is everyone else's much harder to achieve?
I can't imagine it being any easier. If that's all it is, yours is something that detracts from no one in the game's win condition.
The fact that you just didn't come out and claim it makes it seem that there's something more going on.
ummm, I agree, L street is the best bar in town?
Quoteummm, I agree, L street is the best bar in town?
INCORRECT. RED DOOR IS FAR SUPERIOR.
THIS IS A STRONG PERSONAL BELIEF OF MINE WHICH IS IN NO WAY RELATED TO A SECONDARY OBJECTIVE.
Maybe we should mass flavor claim?I'm fine with that. maybe also mass secondary wincon claim, and get them all done and over with, so we can focus on lynching some scum.
Maybe we should mass flavor claim?I'm fine with that. maybe also mass secondary wincon claim, and get them all done and over with, so we can focus on lynching some scum.
...yeah. Does anybody know where my pen is?
Here, take mine.
Quoteummm, I agree, L street is the best bar in town?
INCORRECT. RED DOOR IS FAR SUPERIOR.
THIS IS A STRONG PERSONAL BELIEF OF MINE WHICH IS IN NO WAY RELATED TO A SECONDARY OBJECTIVE.
Maybe we should mass flavor claim?I'm fine with that. maybe also mass secondary wincon claim, and get them all done and over with, so we can focus on lynching some scum.
Maybe we should mass flavor claim?I'm fine with that. maybe also mass secondary wincon claim, and get them all done and over with, so we can focus on lynching some scum.
This is bad, my flavor and role are connected, if you didn't know the show you wouldn't get it but I don't want to risk a scum player with show knowledge gaining role knowledge in fact vote: arch
...yeah. Does anybody know where my pen is?
Here, take mine.
Wait, you have a pen? Is it mine?
Halt. Stop. Desist.oh man. I'm sorry guys, shouldn't have started all this. no claiming stuff, and I'm afraid that mcmc and WMFS's flavor names could be easily found with some research... uh-oh.
I have a secondary wincon. It is flavor-related, but ALSO specifically relates to my being an Innocent Child.
Therefore, I am concerned that massclaiming secondary wincons may inadvertently out some or all of our other power roles.
We may want to massclaim secondary wincons at some point anyway - for example, it is quite possible scum have secondary wincons that don't make sense for town, and thus would be forced to fakeclaim something - but I'm not convinced doing so is as casually risk-free as people are suggesting.
Volt, I have something about my role that <i>might</i> [har har] be able to make me an IC. I'm not certain though, do you think I should do it?
Volt, I have something about my role that <i>might</i> [har har] be able to make me an IC. I'm not certain though, do you think I should do it?There are no IC's except mod-confirmed ones in closed setups (well, essentially)
Volt, I have something about my role that <i>might</i> [har har] be able to make me an IC. I'm not certain though, do you think I should do it?There are no IC's except mod-confirmed ones in closed setups (well, essentially)
Volt, I have something about my role that <i>might</i> [har har] be able to make me an IC. I'm not certain though, do you think I should do it?
Volt, I have something about my role that <i>might</i> [har har] be able to make me an IC. I'm not certain though, do you think I should do it?
This is too vague for me to intelligently respond as to whether you should "do it" or not.
I'm not asking you to clarify. It may not be best for town if you clarify; then again, it might. I have no idea. You're going to have to decide that - and take responsibility for that decision - on your own. Sorry.
Also, I expect flavor claiming would not get us any closer to finding scum - as I assume our mods have given fakeclaims to the scum players, or would provide them upon request.or their flavor names don't indicate alignment
Volt, I have something about my role that <i>might</i> [har har] be able to make me an IC. I'm not certain though, do you think I should do it?
This is too vague for me to intelligently respond as to whether you should "do it" or not.
I'm not asking you to clarify. It may not be best for town if you clarify; then again, it might. I have no idea. You're going to have to decide that - and take responsibility for that decision - on your own. Sorry.
I'll say a bit more, it involves in me half-claiming my role then someone else confirming it (sadly, by them half-claiming as well).
I just googled this and apparently L Street and the Red Door are the same bar?
I'm too young to drink anyways.
Walrus, do you think this has ANY impact on the game other than giving one of you and Mcmc a secondary win?
Cause, if it doesn't, I don't care who I am voting for. Unless there's an actual impact.
It was just an open suggestion, and so I don't think it warrants the vote. Like at all. Strangely, this gives me a townier vibe from mcmcsalot.Maybe we should mass flavor claim?I'm fine with that. maybe also mass secondary wincon claim, and get them all done and over with, so we can focus on lynching some scum.
This is bad, my flavor and role are connected, if you didn't know the show you wouldn't get it but I don't want to risk a scum player with show knowledge gaining role knowledge in fact vote: arch
I'll say a bit more, it involves in me half-claiming my role then someone else confirming it (sadly, by them half-claiming as well).I'm not too sure here, but haven't you gone far enough here that you might as well execute your plan? I mean, there are only so many roles that can be confirmed by others, right? So you did already half half-claim...
Galzria: do you know if what you Enable will be revealed upon death?
That would make sense.Galzria: do you know if what you Enable will be revealed upon death?
I don't know, but I would guess that my role name would become unredacted in my death announcement.
Why did you tell me to wait up? It's not like me saying something interfered with your saying something...
That would make sense.Galzria: do you know if what you Enable will be revealed upon death?
I don't know, but I would guess that my role name would become unredacted in my death announcement.
I almost wish that you had claimed tommorow. I'm guessing that with a game this large we have 2 scumteams. Especially with ash's "This should go faster than you would think" remark. So Voltgloss is certainly a target and now possibly you. But again, WIFOM of who each scumteam targets and if they want to target you.
Yes, I'm almost 99% sure there are 2 scumteams. One for MF and one for Community.
I really don't understand why anyone is claiming anything.
I really don't understand why anyone is claiming anything.
Because this could very well draw a shot from Volt tonight if scum feel leaving me alive is a bigger threat.
I really don't understand why anyone is claiming anything.
Because this could very well draw a shot from Volt tonight if scum feel leaving me alive is a bigger threat.
I think that's weird logic, being that you don't even know if you are a pro-town enabler.
Giving scum more information to base their kill decision on isnt helpful at all, whatever wifom you think you can force them to consider.I really don't understand why anyone is claiming anything.
Because this could very well draw a shot from Volt tonight if scum feel leaving me alive is a bigger threat.
I think that's weird logic, being that you don't even know if you are a pro-town enabler.
Nope, I don't. What's weird about it? Neither do scum. If I am, then I'm more dangerous than Volt alive. It forces scum to make a decision that could save Volt's life. Where do you lose that logic?
@faust: you just FOS'd Arch and liopoil for encouraging claiming and now you are doing it too!I'm only encouraging sudgy's claim because he has likely already drawn scum attention on himself by stating he could become an IC... And I'm not generally against claiming (see Galzria's case, where it might help), but I do not think we'll learn much from flavor/secondary wincon claims and they will only distract us.
Volt: The other person I'm mentioning could be scum (it would pretty weird if it was though). And I haven't really claimed much of anything yet other than that my role has to do with another person, so I've probably 1/20 claimed.
Galz: does your flavor give you any suspicion as to what type of power you enable? Don't disclose your flavor - just a yes or no answer, please.
Thinking about the L Street/Red Door election.It certainly possible that it triggers some mechanic, but I doubt it will be as simple as town/scum (because well... isn't the whole lynching process already some kind of town/scum election?). But I fear it will be hard to find out unless someone's role gives them more information. I'd say we should just see how it turns out and take that into consideration when somethin like this occurs again.
Is this just pure flavor, or is there some game mechanics tied to this?
We already know it is connected with secondary objectives, but there could be more as well.
Could this be a scum/town election? Meaning one of mcmc or walrus being scum, and their team receiving a bonus for winning?
Eevee mentioned a possible punishment for not voting. Maybe a reward for voting on the winner side?
I got nothing more than speculations on this, but my guess would be that the election would trigger some game mechanic.
It occurs to me as an event to "big" for it not to have any impact.
I think we should show-claim - that is to say, we should claim which of the two shows we're on.
Or it could be the secondary wincons for the two players - whichever bar wins, that player gets a secondary win.
Galz, one last question (for now): Does your secondary wincon have anything to do with your role, or suggest any hints as to what you enable? Or is it linked to your flavor only?
sudgy, I haven't forgotten your situation either:Volt: The other person I'm mentioning could be scum (it would pretty weird if it was though). And I haven't really claimed much of anything yet other than that my role has to do with another person, so I've probably 1/20 claimed.
Do you, right now, know which player that "other person" is? Do not disclose who it is (if you know) - just a yes or no answer, please.
I think we should show-claim - that is to say, we should claim which of the two shows we're on.
Sudgy, I do NOT have your pen. I never had your pen. This was a mistake on my part - I thought you could only self-vote until someone gave you a pen, but then I saw the vote count showing you'd voted for lio. Chalk it up as a moment where I thought it might be pro-town to lie.
Sudgy, I do NOT have your pen. I never had your pen. This was a mistake on my part - I thought you could only self-vote until someone gave you a pen, but then I saw the vote count showing you'd voted for lio. Chalk it up as a moment where I thought it might be pro-town to lie.
Sudgy, I do NOT have your pen. I never had your pen. This was a mistake on my part - I thought you could only self-vote until someone gave you a pen, but then I saw the vote count showing you'd voted for lio. Chalk it up as a moment where I thought it might be pro-town to lie.
:(
...Anybody else?
I have no idea how this quote from Eevee is an agreement with anything Ive said.To create interactions to get the game going, I like to participate in the random voting stage by voting for someone who often signals his towniness well to me but hasn't managed to so yet.
Really? In context it just looks like you're agreeing with shraeye.
It's not - that's my point. Eevee said he liked your post, voted for TA, and then later said he was voting for TA for different reasons than you. That wasn't communicated at all in Eevee's post where he actually voted - the obvious conclusion one would draw, prior to his later explanation, is that he was (intentionally) sheeping your reasons.
I don't, sorry.I have no idea how this quote from Eevee is an agreement with anything Ive said.To create interactions to get the game going, I like to participate in the random voting stage by voting for someone who often signals his towniness well to me but hasn't managed to so yet.
Really? In context it just looks like you're agreeing with shraeye.
It's not - that's my point. Eevee said he liked your post, voted for TA, and then later said he was voting for TA for different reasons than you. That wasn't communicated at all in Eevee's post where he actually voted - the obvious conclusion one would draw, prior to his later explanation, is that he was (intentionally) sheeping your reasons.
Eevee, can you please reply to this? Do you see my confusion?
I don't, sorry.
Shraeye makes a post that I think is on the townier side, in which he makes a comment about TA. I agree with his thoughts on TA, want to put down a vote somewhere and realize TA hasn't given me town vibes so I pick him. What's the question?
I think we should show-claim - that is to say, we should claim which of the two shows we're on.
I got flavor suggesting we were all minor characters from the show. Some people didn't get this sort of flavor? Interesting. Is it because you're scum? ???
I think we should show-claim - that is to say, we should claim which of the two shows we're on.I got flavor suggesting we were all minor characters from the show. Some people didn't get this sort of flavor? Interesting. Is it because you're scum? ???
chairs, I'm having trouble parsing these two posts of yours. Particularly the switch from "the two shows" to "the show." Are you suggesting that everyone from one of the shows is town, and everyone from the other show is scum?
This. I agree with the general consensus of the town, play towards town win con not secondary win cons.Galz, one last question (for now): Does your secondary wincon have anything to do with your role, or suggest any hints as to what you enable? Or is it linked to your flavor only?
My secondary win con is ridiculously difficult and unrealistic to achieve. I suppose it's tied into my flavor, but realistically it feels very separated. Like it's just a 'bonus challenge.'
A short search on google shows that there are 12 major characters in modern family and 9 in community. A total of 21.
It seems pretty obvious to me that these are the 21 roles in the game.
A short search on google shows that there are 12 major characters in modern family and 9 in community. A total of 21.
It seems pretty obvious to me that these are the 21 roles in the game.
xeiron, could you please list the names of those 21 characters? (Or anybody - doesn't have to be xeiron)
We could probably consider this a open setup flavorwise, with the list Shraeye posted as the roles.
yes
xeiron, is this the same list of characters you found?
I think he means the list of characters Galz posted, but xeiron, do please confirm.confirmed
chairs, why did you propose show-claiming?
I have a suspicion regarding alignments that's based on which show your character is on. It's pretty weak, right now, but if we claim D1 then we can out anybody fakeclaiming a show they're not part of. It's also not providing a ton of information to scum, unless their wincon is to kill off the entirety of a show (which I don't suspect it is).
Thanks Galz.
xeiron, is this the same list of characters you found?
We're going to do the Clue Hider Plan(tm). If we have any power roles that die if they target scum at night, this should help tremendously. (We may not HAVE any such power roles, of course - but if so then this plan doesn't have any effect and so can't hurt us.)
I am going to double-check how the Clue Hider Plan worked and then I will post the rules we're going to follow.
I have a suspicion regarding alignments that's based on which show your character is on. It's pretty weak, right now, but if we claim D1 then we can out anybody fakeclaiming a show they're not part of. It's also not providing a ton of information to scum, unless their wincon is to kill off the entirety of a show (which I don't suspect it is).
This is a horrible idea because flavor matters. It's clearly tied to role(s). We've half-claimed to our detriment already. This isn't RMM. No more claiming until we have a focused, specific, reason to do so with demonstrable benefits.
My thoughts on this day are out there. Right now I'm intending on holding back until otherVolt has a chance to steer us however he wants.
Modern Family:
Community:
You've said it yourself, this isn't RMM.
can the mods edit community spoilers out of galz' post?
I am here to play a mafia game, not have a tv show I'm partway though spoiled.
Still, I think that ignoring character personalities could be detrimental to finding scum, as I doubt that you'll see "slimy" type characters as town, and "sweet innocent" characters as scum. Flavor matters, and I suspect Ash and Yuma will have tried their best to be as thematic as possible.
xeiron - some distracting posts. By that I mean posts that push the discussion toward flavor discussion and away from actual scumhunting. I'll give out a light scum read for that.
can the mods edit community spoilers out of galz' post?
I am here to play a mafia game, not have a tv show I'm partway though spoiled.
Apologies TA. If I could've easily linked like I did with MF, I would've done so.
Still, I think that ignoring character personalities could be detrimental to finding scum, as I doubt that you'll see "slimy" type characters as town, and "sweet innocent" characters as scum. Flavor matters, and I suspect Ash and Yuma will have tried their best to be as thematic as possible.
Still, I think that ignoring character personalities could be detrimental to finding scum, as I doubt that you'll see "slimy" type characters as town, and "sweet innocent" characters as scum. Flavor matters, and I suspect Ash and Yuma will have tried their best to be as thematic as possible.
Still, I think that ignoring character personalities could be detrimental to finding scum, as I doubt that you'll see "slimy" type characters as town, and "sweet innocent" characters as scum. Flavor matters, and I suspect Ash and Yuma will have tried their best to be as thematic as possible.
Somewhere I got the idea that flavor matches role, but that alignment matches neither and was random. Did I make this up?xeiron - some distracting posts. By that I mean posts that push the discussion toward flavor discussion and away from actual scumhunting. I'll give out a light scum read for that.
This is a great way to find scum, actually.
No. We cannot use that list. I have a flavor name that is not on it and I suspect others do as well.
Still, I think that ignoring character personalities could be detrimental to finding scum, as I doubt that you'll see "slimy" type characters as town, and "sweet innocent" characters as scum. Flavor matters, and I suspect Ash and Yuma will have tried their best to be as thematic as possible.
I disagree with this. Flavor matters, and the flavor we've been given is that the mafia - the "Blorgons" (which I gather are functionally Daleks) - have infiltrated the group. Like Doctor Who mafia. There is no reason why a Blorgon couldn't be equally likely to masquerade as a "sweet innocent" character as opposed to a "slimy" character.
can the mods edit community spoilers out of galz' post?
I am here to play a mafia game, not have a tv show I'm partway though spoiled.
Apologies TA. If I could've easily linked like I did with MF, I would've done so.
Still, I think that ignoring character personalities could be detrimental to finding scum, as I doubt that you'll see "slimy" type characters as town, and "sweet innocent" characters as scum. Flavor matters, and I suspect Ash and Yuma will have tried their best to be as thematic as possible.
It's ok, the first sentence I read going through it was the last one of pierces description which spoiled the season 4 finale. No idea if anything else is in there, it seems clean, but that was the major spoiler I was frustrated at seeing.
No. We cannot use that list. I have a flavor name that is not on it and I suspect others do as well.
Interesting. I need to mull ramifications of this for the plan (if we implement a plan).
Hey guys! I'm going to be fairly busy until at least Wednesday night, just a heads up.Ok, thanks for letting us know that you're super concerned about being labelled a lurker.
I am super-curious why you pointed this out about Nkirbit, but not about Robz, when they said literally the exact same thing.
Ugh, so many new posts, and so little content...
I don't see this whole secondary win/flavor claim discussion as being much of a help, rather distracting. FOS on Archetype and liopoil for starting it.
Vote: L Street because I don't have any idea of the flavor, but L is a cool letter.
Vote: shraeye because I'm not very convinced by how he answered to the accusations.
Volt, the plan in clue worked because it was one role (hider) and the flavor names were known. Given that we don't know the roles, or the flavor, I don't think the plan is a good idea.
There's too many things that could go wrong -- say a hider were to hide behind you following the plan? That's obviously terrible. The plan worked when it was simple and there were a few already known variables, which is not the case here.
No. We cannot use that list. I have a flavor name that is not on it and I suspect others do as well.
Interesting. I need to mull ramifications of this for the plan (if we implement a plan).
I agree that this plan could be nice to have. It would be easy to make it so that nobody hides behind Voltgloss. Not having a complete role list is a larger problem.Volt, the plan in clue worked because it was one role (hider) and the flavor names were known. Given that we don't know the roles, or the flavor, I don't think the plan is a good idea.
There's too many things that could go wrong -- say a hider were to hide behind you following the plan? That's obviously terrible. The plan worked when it was simple and there were a few already known variables, which is not the case here.
I think a variant of the plan may still have merit, but I am still working out the details.
Right now I'm intending on holding back until otherVolt has a chance to steer us however he wants.
I don't think I could bring myself to support any "hider plan" like we had in CLUE. That was a completely open set up, where we knew everything that could go wrong.
Here, there's just so much that could happen! There could be roleblockers, or vigilantes, or paranoid gun owners, or bus drivers, or whatever. Some of those might not be normal and might not be in the game, but there's just so much that could do wrong with directing a weak investigation towards a particular person that I'd rather not risk it.
I don't think I could bring myself to support any "hider plan" like we had in CLUE. That was a completely open set up, where we knew everything that could go wrong.
Here, there's just so much that could happen! There could be roleblockers, or vigilantes, or paranoid gun owners, or bus drivers, or whatever. Some of those might not be normal and might not be in the game, but there's just so much that could do wrong with directing a weak investigation towards a particular person that I'd rather not risk it.
What specific examples do you have in mind of things that could go wrong?
Thanks Galz.If we do this, it has to be hider only. Here's why:
xeiron, is this the same list of characters you found?
We're going to do the Clue Hider Plan(tm). If we have any power roles that die if they target scum at night, this should help tremendously. (We may not HAVE any such power roles, of course - but if so then this plan doesn't have any effect and so can't hurt us.)
I am going to double-check how the Clue Hider Plan worked and then I will post the rules we're going to follow.
Because of that vote on a player already under a decent amount of scrutiny, I'm going to Vote: FaustYeah, the reasoning behind my vote was somewhat vague. He just felt scummy to me. Maybe it's because he started off throwing some accusations in (which town would do to get the game going), and then responded to the accusations with short posts, only anwering what was necessary. So if he really tried to get the game going, why does he stop here?
The hider is told by our plan to hide behind player X, and player X is a paranoid gun owner. Player X turns up dead. We lynch the town paranoid gun owner day 2.
Thanks Galz.If we do this, it has to be hider only. Here's why:
xeiron, is this the same list of characters you found?
We're going to do the Clue Hider Plan(tm). If we have any power roles that die if they target scum at night, this should help tremendously. (We may not HAVE any such power roles, of course - but if so then this plan doesn't have any effect and so can't hurt us.)
I am going to double-check how the Clue Hider Plan worked and then I will post the rules we're going to follow.
Weak doctor targets town, and is shot by scum at night. They flip as weak doctor, but we have no way to know if they targeted scum or were the night kill. I guess it's statistically more likely that they targeted scum, but I'd rather not leave it to chance.
Hider plan: Cool in Clue, doesn't make sense here
Thanks Galz.If we do this, it has to be hider only. Here's why:
xeiron, is this the same list of characters you found?
We're going to do the Clue Hider Plan(tm). If we have any power roles that die if they target scum at night, this should help tremendously. (We may not HAVE any such power roles, of course - but if so then this plan doesn't have any effect and so can't hurt us.)
I am going to double-check how the Clue Hider Plan worked and then I will post the rules we're going to follow.
Weak doctor targets town, and is shot by scum at night. They flip as weak doctor, but we have no way to know if they targeted scum or were the night kill. I guess it's statistically more likely that they targeted scum, but I'd rather not leave it to chance.
So you would rather we have no idea who the Weak Doctor targeted? How does that help us?
Hider plan: Cool in Clue, doesn't make sense here
AHoppy: why? Reasons, please.
Compared to clue, it just seems like the plan would:
1) Be harder to Orchestrate
2) Have less reliable results
3) Possibly not even be relevant
Those three considerations are enough for me to not endorse its use.
Because of that vote on a player already under a decent amount of scrutiny, I'm going to Vote: FaustYeah, the reasoning behind my vote was somewhat vague. He just felt scummy to me. Maybe it's because he started off throwing some accusations in (which town would do to get the game going), and then responded to the accusations with short posts, only anwering what was necessary. So if he really tried to get the game going, why does he stop here?
Well, that's the line of thought that came to me as I reread the whole situation just now. My thoughts weren't that clear when I voted.
So Galz, since I don't think you've explicitly said this: Do you think you should be the lynch today?
You're the one with the most information. You know your flavor name, your secondary win con, and that stuff could matter. Voltgloss doesn't know any of that.
You've had a lot of time to think about this pre-game, without anything else distracting you. Voltgloss has had to take in everything else on top of thinking about what you should do.
What do you think? I think that's the most important thing since you have the most information.
Why? Because it requires a flavor name list, and my name isn't on there. That totally messes up everything.Hider plan: Cool in Clue, doesn't make sense here
AHoppy: why? Reasons, please.
I'm wary of this question because I could easily see scum trying to weasel out any information from me that might help them decide if it's worth risking my death at night. (Example: Maybe I lied, and I do know what I enable. My posturing could be seen as trying to draw a kill, or dissuade one). By asking this question, you could be fishing for my feeling on value to town. Do I want to live, or do I want to die.
This could also be an innocent question, and there's legitimate reasons for asking it as town. So I'll let Volt decide if he wants me to answer it or not - but I stand by my stated feelings in my claim post.
I don't oppose my lynch, but I think that I don't advocate it. I'm really torn though.
IF I enable scum
So, maybe I am just fiercely independent or something, but Voltaire posting a list of who we should and should not consider lynching today really grinds my gears. Or maybe it is not that, since it might as well be a list of reads, but the fact that others are just going along with it! Look I realize that it makes it easier to narrow down people in a game this size, but town members letting someone else make that list for them (unless it's an IC) is lazy and anti-town. I don't find Voltaire especially scummy for doing this although it does irk me, but whether he is town or scum, he is sending a message to scum that this town can be controlled. He also left himself off the list, which seems a little presumptuous.I don't agree here. Narrowing down helps us as you yourself pointed out, and I'm just taking Voltaire's list because it's the first to be out there. What's the alternative? We can discuss another 5 pages about which list we should be using. I'd like to start discussing the reads we have on players sooner rather than later. And even if Voltaire is scum, I doubt he would post a lynch pool that doesn't contain some of his scum partners.
Right now I'm intending on holding back until otherVolt has a chance to steer us however he wants.
Nobody do this.
As many IC's before me have stated, I have a mathematically lower chance of pinpointing scum than all the rest of the town players in the game. I will step in with respect to things like town plans, where it's important to have a 100% town player calling the shots. And I will definitely be giving my reads. But no town players should be "holding back" waiting for me to "steer" them.
Nkirbit (or anyone who was in HP mafia), could you elaborate a bit about the similarities of these situations? I did not follow that game.
Right now I'm intending on holding back until otherVolt has a chance to steer us however he wants.
Nobody do this.
As many IC's before me have stated, I have a mathematically lower chance of pinpointing scum than all the rest of the town players in the game. I will step in with respect to things like town plans, where it's important to have a 100% town player calling the shots. And I will definitely be giving my reads. But no town players should be "holding back" waiting for me to "steer" them.
Not caught up on the thread yet, but you LEFT OUT THE PART where I said I'd already made all the contributions I could up to that point. Anything else (barring further events) would be clutter.
Nkirbit (or anyone who was in HP mafia), could you elaborate a bit about the similarities of these situations? I did not follow that game.This is an interesting development, I would like to hear more as well. I could probably be swayed to vote Galz if he is acting so differently.
He's definitely different here. He's asking town for their opinion rather than doing what he thinks is best. Part of that is to be expected, since it's a closed set-up. He doesn't know what could happen to the same extent that he did with his claim in HP. But it's different enough that I think it's worth discussing.
That doesn't mean people (ALL people; my post is directed to the town at large) should think it's acceptable to sit back and say nothing until I've "steered" them.
nkirbit, for Dsell's benefit, you should probably also explain what the Auror role entailed, as it was unique to Harry Potter. (I don't remember the details myself.)
Mcmc and Eevee: Could either of you elaborate?I don't believe that Galzria is a scum-aligned Enabler. Because if he were, claiming Enabler would be very dangerous: With the size of this game, there's a reasonable chance that we have a SK. As SK, I would be more than happy to kill an Enabler, because whomever he enables is my enemy, and it would be almost always in my interest for them to lose their PRs.
I do think that Galzria is an enabler. It doesn't make sense for scum to fake-claim enabler in the way that he did... he could probably just claim doctor enabler, or cop enabler, or something like that and no one would blink (unless they were also that enabler). But unknown enabler? That's weird.
He could be a scum unknown enabler.. does that role make sense? I guess it makes as much sense as town unknown enabler? But does a scum unknown enabler want to claim town unknown enabler day1? I don't know. Maybe?
Mcmc and Eevee: Could either of you elaborate?I don't believe that Galzria is a scum-aligned Enabler. Because if he were, claiming Enabler would be very dangerous: With the size of this game, there's a reasonable chance that we have a SK. As SK, I would be more than happy to kill an Enabler, because whomever he enables is my enemy, and it would be almost always in my interest for them to lose their PRs.
I do think that Galzria is an enabler. It doesn't make sense for scum to fake-claim enabler in the way that he did... he could probably just claim doctor enabler, or cop enabler, or something like that and no one would blink (unless they were also that enabler). But unknown enabler? That's weird.
He could be a scum unknown enabler.. does that role make sense? I guess it makes as much sense as town unknown enabler? But does a scum unknown enabler want to claim town unknown enabler day1? I don't know. Maybe?
That same line of thought should also maybe have kept Galzria from claiming as town. But for town, being killed isn't that big of a problem.
So really, I believe there are only two possibilities. 1) Galzria says the truth. 2) Galzria completely made up the whole Enabler thing.
Personally, I don't believe in 2). It's just too far out there.
So really, I believe there are only two possibilities. 1) Galzria says the truth. 2) Galzria completely made up the whole Enabler thing.
Personally, I don't believe in 2). It's just too far out there.
and the big one, which is most of my reasoning:
- The answer to "how is this a good idea as town" is very weak. very. scum needs to come up with an excuse to fakeclaim, and this one isn't good. Elaboration:
So, you think you should be lynched because you think that you're helping scum. Well, I don't see you self-voting, and besides, if you are town, getting mislynched is not worth it. A mislynch hurts town way more than scum having a roleblocker or whatever.
Well, maybe you AREN'T saying that you should be lynched. why did you claim then? you mentioned distracting scum from killing VG. That makes no sense - if it is better for town for you to die instead of VG, then scum will just kill VG, not you.
I don't see the point of claiming if you're town.
Mathematically, lynching galz is good too. 75% of the time he hurts scum.
1. Town enabling town. This sucks.
2. Town enabling scum. The best mislynch for town, worst for scum.
3. Scum enabling town. It's a small price to pay to lose a scum.
4. Scum enabling scum. LYNCH HIM!
With this, and others' reasons, I will vote: galz.
Mathematically, lynching galz is good too. 75% of the time he hurts scum.Your math is bad.
1. Town enabling town. This sucks.
2. Town enabling scum. The best mislynch for town, worst for scum.
3. Scum enabling town. It's a small price to pay to lose a scum.
4. Scum enabling scum. LYNCH HIM!
With this, and others' reasons, I will vote: galz.
Mathematically, lynching galz is good too. 75% of the time he hurts scum.
1. Town enabling town. This sucks.
2. Town enabling scum. The best mislynch for town, worst for scum.
3. Scum enabling town. It's a small price to pay to lose a scum.
4. Scum enabling scum. LYNCH HIM!
With this, and others' reasons, I will vote: galz.
Mathematically, lynching galz is good too. 75% of the time he hurts scum.
mail-mi
chairs
TA
bocaJ
xeiron
bocaJ is lurking/absent. TA shocked me, though. There may be something to shraeye's accusation earlier. Honestly at this point I have no idea which method I want to use for my vote at this point.
| Eevee Robz mail-mi chairs shraeye EFHW nkirbit Dsell bocaJ xeiron | mail-mi chairs TA bocaJ xeiron | mail-mi chairs bocaJ xeiron |
mail-mi
chairs
TA
bocaJ
xeiron
bocaJ is lurking/absent. TA shocked me, though. There may be something to shraeye's accusation earlier. Honestly at this point I have no idea which method I want to use for my vote at this point.
Oh, silly me, I lied. I want to use both methods!
Take my first list / second list / who shows up on both?
Eevee
Robz
mail-mi
chairs
shraeye
EFHW
nkirbit
Dsell
bocaJ
xeironmail-mi
chairs
TA
bocaJ
xeironmail-mi
chairs
bocaJ
xeiron
I'm a fan of the giving-the-new-guy a D1 pass in most situations, so that leaves mail-mi, chairs, or xeiron. At first blush that list seems too small, but this IS a 21-player game and I can only vote for one person D1, so...
PPE: Lotsa mail-mi votes. Chairs expand on that "slip" you think you see?
He said a Galzria lynch was good, because 75% of the time Galz will hurt scum.
Town wants somebody that hurts scum. If 75% of the time, Galz is anti-scum, that's better than a VT (for example), and so a Galz lynch isn't the best option for Town.
Okay rly? I was saying it was a 75% chance it was good for town if it was random. It isn't, but so? Scum enabling scum is not very likely at all, but randomly it is.Mathematically, lynching galz is good too. 75% of the time he hurts scum.
1. Town enabling town. This sucks.
2. Town enabling scum. The best mislynch for town, worst for scum.
3. Scum enabling town. It's a small price to pay to lose a scum.
4. Scum enabling scum. LYNCH HIM!
With this, and others' reasons, I will vote: galz.
Bolding the important slip:QuoteMathematically, lynching galz is good too. 75% of the time he hurts scum.
vote: mail-mi
Well yeah, with just that I would not put a vote. I was wheeling the best case out there right now.Mathematically, lynching galz is good too. 75% of the time he hurts scum.
1. Town enabling town. This sucks.
2. Town enabling scum. The best mislynch for town, worst for scum.
3. Scum enabling town. It's a small price to pay to lose a scum.
4. Scum enabling scum. LYNCH HIM!
With this, and others' reasons, I will vote: galz.
Really? Those 4 events don't have equal probabilities. This is beyond weak justification to jump on a wagon.
I think I'm a good lynch choice. I really do. If Volt thinks so, I'll happily self-vote. I think I'm better off alive today, and give scum the choice to NK me. But I wouldn't have offered myself up if I didn't think my lynch had merit.
The accusation that I'm not leading like HP is a little ridiculous though. I was an IC after my claim (or damn near so). I acted like it. I put my foot down and stepped on people when I felt it needed to be done. I had that luxury.
Here, my claim isn't as strong as Cop. We can't play follow the Cop like we could there. I'm not an IC. This isn't an open setup. I shouldn't under any circumstances be Doctored at night. My life in this game is set to be short-lived.
It's pretty clear that he meant, "75% of the time lynching Galzria is bad for scum." It's consistent with the rest of his post, while what you're trying to say he said really isn't.Yes, this is what I meant.
Bad math, but not a scumslip.
I think I'm a good lynch choice. I really do. If Volt thinks so, I'll happily self-vote. I think I'm better off alive today, and give scum the choice to NK me. But I wouldn't have offered myself up if I didn't think my lynch had merit.
The accusation that I'm not leading like HP is a little ridiculous though. I was an IC after my claim (or damn near so). I acted like it. I put my foot down and stepped on people when I felt it needed to be done. I had that luxury.
Here, my claim isn't as strong as Cop. We can't play follow the Cop like we could there. I'm not an IC. This isn't an open setup. I shouldn't under any circumstances be Doctored at night. My life in this game is set to be short-lived.
He said a Galzria lynch was good, because 75% of the time Galz will hurt scum.
Town wants somebody that hurts scum. If 75% of the time, Galz is anti-scum, that's better than a VT (for example), and so a Galz lynch isn't the best option for Town.
I don't follow. His actual reasons make a certain amount of sense, and Galz himself is more-or-less saying the same thing (being ok with us lynching him if he's town, for example). Of course those 4 options aren't equal, of course he hopped on the wagon, but...I don't follow. Are you saying lynching a VT is 0% anti-scum? If so, using your math, lynching Galz IS better.
No. I did not say that. What i said is "75% of the time he will hurt scum." What i meant to say was "75% of the time lynching him will hurt scum." I said nothing about "his power."He said a Galzria lynch was good, because 75% of the time Galz will hurt scum.
Town wants somebody that hurts scum. If 75% of the time, Galz is anti-scum, that's better than a VT (for example), and so a Galz lynch isn't the best option for Town.
I don't follow. His actual reasons make a certain amount of sense, and Galz himself is more-or-less saying the same thing (being ok with us lynching him if he's town, for example). Of course those 4 options aren't equal, of course he hopped on the wagon, but...I don't follow. Are you saying lynching a VT is 0% anti-scum? If so, using your math, lynching Galz IS better.
I'm not saying the stuff he suggests afterwards is bad. I'm strictly saying that "lynching Galz is good because 75% of the time his power will hurt scum" is not something I would expect a town member to say. Is it the strongest argument I've seen in Mafia? Not at all. Could he have meant town and said scum? Sure. Do I think it's worth a D1 vote? Absolutely.
No. I did not say that. What i said is "75% of the time he will hurt scum." What i meant to say was "75% of the time lynching him will hurt scum." I said nothing about "his power."He said a Galzria lynch was good, because 75% of the time Galz will hurt scum.
Town wants somebody that hurts scum. If 75% of the time, Galz is anti-scum, that's better than a VT (for example), and so a Galz lynch isn't the best option for Town.
I don't follow. His actual reasons make a certain amount of sense, and Galz himself is more-or-less saying the same thing (being ok with us lynching him if he's town, for example). Of course those 4 options aren't equal, of course he hopped on the wagon, but...I don't follow. Are you saying lynching a VT is 0% anti-scum? If so, using your math, lynching Galz IS better.
I'm not saying the stuff he suggests afterwards is bad. I'm strictly saying that "lynching Galz is good because 75% of the time his power will hurt scum" is not something I would expect a town member to say. Is it the strongest argument I've seen in Mafia? Not at all. Could he have meant town and said scum? Sure. Do I think it's worth a D1 vote? Absolutely.
Also, I was in the bathroom at school. That factors in also.No. I did not say that. What i said is "75% of the time he will hurt scum." What i meant to say was "75% of the time lynching him will hurt scum." I said nothing about "his power."He said a Galzria lynch was good, because 75% of the time Galz will hurt scum.
Town wants somebody that hurts scum. If 75% of the time, Galz is anti-scum, that's better than a VT (for example), and so a Galz lynch isn't the best option for Town.
I don't follow. His actual reasons make a certain amount of sense, and Galz himself is more-or-less saying the same thing (being ok with us lynching him if he's town, for example). Of course those 4 options aren't equal, of course he hopped on the wagon, but...I don't follow. Are you saying lynching a VT is 0% anti-scum? If so, using your math, lynching Galz IS better.
I'm not saying the stuff he suggests afterwards is bad. I'm strictly saying that "lynching Galz is good because 75% of the time his power will hurt scum" is not something I would expect a town member to say. Is it the strongest argument I've seen in Mafia? Not at all. Could he have meant town and said scum? Sure. Do I think it's worth a D1 vote? Absolutely.
Fair enough - what I read that as was "75% of the time he will hurt scum" - not "75% of the time his lynch will hurt scum". That's a pretty different statement.
wow, posts come fast when there's 21 players. I've read most of the posts since my last post, but skimmed the last 15 or so. I know that some people are voting galz because he hasn't been leading town and stuff.
Vote: Galzria
for a much different reason. I would have done this right after his claim post if I had been around.
because this is the exact type of fakeclaim I expect scum to make. (and I expect scum to fakeclaim)
- he claimed early, to get credit for an unprovoked claim (see: yuma, in mean girls)
- not a simple generic role, to make it more believable
and the big one, which is most of my reasoning:
- The answer to "how is this a good idea as town" is very weak. very. scum needs to come up with an excuse to fakeclaim, and this one isn't good. Elaboration:
So, you think you should be lynched because you think that you're helping scum. Well, I don't see you self-voting, and besides, if you are town, getting mislynched is not worth it. A mislynch hurts town way more than scum having a roleblocker or whatever.
Well, maybe you AREN'T saying that you should be lynched. why did you claim then? you mentioned distracting scum from killing VG. That makes no sense - if it is better for town for you to die instead of VG, then scum will just kill VG, not you.
I don't see the point of claiming if you're town.
Vote: Liopoil because this sounds like a huge stretch. Why would scum fakeclaim so early, with something that's tied to another role out there? Provoking him for not self-voting? IMO this is the worst of those who hopped on the Galz bandwagon.
mail-mi was pretty bad too.
"Ah, Reg, dear pal, do you remember the last time we ended up in this room? It was a serene and placid timeline. A happy one. One with no darkness at all.
"We don't have those very often, do we?"
Reggie nodded in agreement.
"What was it they were celebrating then, again? I remember trees, happiness and excitement...we were all clay, right?"
Reggie began to say "Christmas" when...
"Ah right, Arbor Day. Fantastic, that was. Anyway, this room was magic then. Anyone who entered it became a member of the Study Group. It felt like a little town in here. Almost like the Study Group was the Town. Interchangeable terms, weren't they Reg?"
In fact, let me unvote for the time being. I would think that if Shraeye were scum, he would have turned up by now to defend himself more effectively. Maybe he was just being a bit blunt after all. Also, a couple of other people jumped on the Shraeye boat after me with minimal justification--not that my initial reasoning was any less tenuous, but still it raises some eyebrows.I'm actually not so sure about this part. He played quite clever - not responding anymore, waiting for us to move on to someone else. And if this is planned, it worked quite well - the wagon has dissolved. I'll still FOS him.
Truthfully, that's just xeiron. He did this in innovation to, as town.In fact, let me unvote for the time being. I would think that if Shraeye were scum, he would have turned up by now to defend himself more effectively. Maybe he was just being a bit blunt after all. Also, a couple of other people jumped on the Shraeye boat after me with minimal justification--not that my initial reasoning was any less tenuous, but still it raises some eyebrows.I'm actually not so sure about this part. He played quite clever - not responding anymore, waiting for us to move on to someone else. And if this is planned, it worked quite well - the wagon has dissolved. I'll still FOS him.
However I will now Vote: xeiron. He seems to not participate in scumhunting much, but at the same time constantly asks questions regarding flavor, setup speculation and such. This reads scummy to me.
"Ah, Reg, dear pal, do you remember the last time we ended up in this room? It was a serene and placid timeline. A happy one. One with no darkness at all.
"We don't have those very often, do we?"
Reggie nodded in agreement.
"What was it they were celebrating then, again? I remember trees, happiness and excitement...we were all clay, right?"
Reggie began to say "Christmas" when...
"Ah right, Arbor Day. Fantastic, that was. Anyway, this room was magic then. Anyone who entered it became a member of the Study Group. It felt like a little town in here. Almost like the Study Group was the Town. Interchangeable terms, weren't they Reg?"
Interesting.
"Ah, Reg, dear pal, do you remember the last time we ended up in this room? It was a serene and placid timeline. A happy one. One with no darkness at all.
"We don't have those very often, do we?"
Reggie nodded in agreement.
"What was it they were celebrating then, again? I remember trees, happiness and excitement...we were all clay, right?"
Reggie began to say "Christmas" when...
"Ah right, Arbor Day. Fantastic, that was. Anyway, this room was magic then. Anyone who entered it became a member of the Study Group. It felt like a little town in here. Almost like the Study Group was the Town. Interchangeable terms, weren't they Reg?"
Interesting.
Did you not know that?
"Ah, Reg, dear pal, do you remember the last time we ended up in this room? It was a serene and placid timeline. A happy one. One with no darkness at all.
"We don't have those very often, do we?"
Reggie nodded in agreement.
"What was it they were celebrating then, again? I remember trees, happiness and excitement...we were all clay, right?"
Reggie began to say "Christmas" when...
"Ah right, Arbor Day. Fantastic, that was. Anyway, this room was magic then. Anyone who entered it became a member of the Study Group. It felt like a little town in here. Almost like the Study Group was the Town. Interchangeable terms, weren't they Reg?"
Interesting.
Did you not know that?
Vote: Liopoil because this sounds like a huge stretch. Why would scum fakeclaim so early, with something that's tied to another role out there? Provoking him for not self-voting? IMO this is the worst of those who hopped on the Galz bandwagon.
Why is this grounds for a lio vote?
Liopoil did what I think scum wants to do when they get on a bandwagon: not look like they're getting on a bandwagon but rather look original in their accusations.
"Ah, Reg, dear pal, do you remember the last time we ended up in this room? It was a serene and placid timeline. A happy one. One with no darkness at all.
"We don't have those very often, do we?"
Reggie nodded in agreement.
"What was it they were celebrating then, again? I remember trees, happiness and excitement...we were all clay, right?"
Reggie began to say "Christmas" when...
"Ah right, Arbor Day. Fantastic, that was. Anyway, this room was magic then. Anyone who entered it became a member of the Study Group. It felt like a little town in here. Almost like the Study Group was the Town. Interchangeable terms, weren't they Reg?"
Interesting.
Did you not know that?
Know what? That the study group is town? No, I didn't know that.
"Ah, Reg, dear pal, do you remember the last time we ended up in this room? It was a serene and placid timeline. A happy one. One with no darkness at all.
"We don't have those very often, do we?"
Reggie nodded in agreement.
"What was it they were celebrating then, again? I remember trees, happiness and excitement...we were all clay, right?"
Reggie began to say "Christmas" when...
"Ah right, Arbor Day. Fantastic, that was. Anyway, this room was magic then. Anyone who entered it became a member of the Study Group. It felt like a little town in here. Almost like the Study Group was the Town. Interchangeable terms, weren't they Reg?"
Interesting.
Did you not know that?
Yes, nkirbit, did you not? That one word carries a whole lot. A legitimate scumslip, I believe. vote: nkirbit
"Ah, Reg, dear pal, do you remember the last time we ended up in this room? It was a serene and placid timeline. A happy one. One with no darkness at all.
"We don't have those very often, do we?"
Reggie nodded in agreement.
"What was it they were celebrating then, again? I remember trees, happiness and excitement...we were all clay, right?"
Reggie began to say "Christmas" when...
"Ah right, Arbor Day. Fantastic, that was. Anyway, this room was magic then. Anyone who entered it became a member of the Study Group. It felt like a little town in here. Almost like the Study Group was the Town. Interchangeable terms, weren't they Reg?"
Interesting.
Did you not know that?
Yes, nkirbit, did you not? That one word carries a whole lot. A legitimate scumslip, I believe. vote: nkirbit
What? There aren't any evil characters in either show, right? So saying that 7 characters is town is pretty big.
I find it hard so say anything about allignment early in a game. So I prefer theory discussions or plans from the start of D1. I will get to scumhunting eventually, though.In fact, let me unvote for the time being. I would think that if Shraeye were scum, he would have turned up by now to defend himself more effectively. Maybe he was just being a bit blunt after all. Also, a couple of other people jumped on the Shraeye boat after me with minimal justification--not that my initial reasoning was any less tenuous, but still it raises some eyebrows.I'm actually not so sure about this part. He played quite clever - not responding anymore, waiting for us to move on to someone else. And if this is planned, it worked quite well - the wagon has dissolved. I'll still FOS him.
However I will now Vote: xeiron. He seems to not participate in scumhunting much, but at the same time constantly asks questions regarding flavor, setup speculation and such. This reads scummy to me.
In fact, let me unvote for the time being. I would think that if Shraeye were scum, he would have turned up by now to defend himself more effectively. Maybe he was just being a bit blunt after all. Also, a couple of other people jumped on the Shraeye boat after me with minimal justification--not that my initial reasoning was any less tenuous, but still it raises some eyebrows.I'm actually not so sure about this part. He played quite clever - not responding anymore, waiting for us to move on to someone else. And if this is planned, it worked quite well - the wagon has dissolved. I'll still FOS him.
However I will now Vote: xeiron. He seems to not participate in scumhunting much, but at the same time constantly asks questions regarding flavor, setup speculation and such. This reads scummy to me.
What? There aren't any evil characters in either show, right? So saying that 7 characters is town is pretty big.
What? There aren't any evil characters in either show, right? So saying that 7 characters is town is pretty big.
nkirbit, where did you get "7 characters" from?
Nkirbit, I don't think your bolded quote refers to the actual study group from the show, but rather the new study group in this mafia game, which is town, and made up of a different cast of characters.But, if he was town, he would've known that the study group was the Town.
For people voting him, his "slip" makes a lot more sense and less slip-like in the context of the show. There are 7 characters, all almost certainly in this game, who make up the study group in the TV show. Nkirbit thought this was referring to that group, rather than the study group in the mafia game.
nkirbit, I think you need to showclaim right now.
I can also confirm xerion's meta
Either nkirbit just made a big scumslip, or there could be two separate town factions (is that even a thing?), one for modern family, one for community. This probably means that some of the people in the study group are scum (the use of the past tense in the flavor). So, those characters you know already/can figure out, they can still be scum from what I'm reading. Just keep that in mind.
wow, posts come fast when there's 21 players. I've read most of the posts since my last post, but skimmed the last 15 or so. I know that some people are voting galz because he hasn't been leading town and stuff.
Vote: Galzria
for a much different reason. I would have done this right after his claim post if I had been around.
because this is the exact type of fakeclaim I expect scum to make. (and I expect scum to fakeclaim)
- he claimed early, to get credit for an unprovoked claim (see: yuma, in mean girls)
- not a simple generic role, to make it more believable
and the big one, which is most of my reasoning:
- The answer to "how is this a good idea as town" is very weak. very. scum needs to come up with an excuse to fakeclaim, and this one isn't good. Elaboration:
So, you think you should be lynched because you think that you're helping scum. Well, I don't see you self-voting, and besides, if you are town, getting mislynched is not worth it. A mislynch hurts town way more than scum having a roleblocker or whatever.
Well, maybe you AREN'T saying that you should be lynched. why did you claim then? you mentioned distracting scum from killing VG. That makes no sense - if it is better for town for you to die instead of VG, then scum will just kill VG, not you.
I don't see the point of claiming if you're town.
What's this insanity? My guess is Galzria running a gambit, nothing he has told us this far makes me think he should want to be the lynch or that anyone should want to lynch them.
I can also confirm xerion's metaThe Opening flavor explains why both community and modern family are part of the study group aka town.
Either nkirbit just made a big scumslip, or there could be two separate town factions (is that even a thing?), one for modern family, one for community. This probably means that some of the people in the study group are scum (the use of the past tense in the flavor). So, those characters you know already/can figure out, they can still be scum from what I'm reading. Just keep that in mind.
I am not going to vote for nkirbit over this but I am also never going to forget it.
Galzria doesn't know if he's enabling scum or town, but scum will probably know. They know whether or not Galzria is a good NK target.
I thought the "Study group is town" bit meant that the 7 characters from Modern Family who are in the "Study Group" were town.
One result of this is that I believe Galzria is extremely unlike to be the night kill for a long time -- either he's scum or his death hurts scum.I again want to say that there is likely more than one scum faction, so this might not be true. In fact, I'd like to keep Galz alive until the night just to see if he gets killed.
Galzria doesn't know if he's enabling scum or town, but scum will probably know. They know whether or not Galzria is a good NK target.
TA, why do you think scum will know whether Galz enables a town- or scum-role? (assuming Galz is town)
One result of this is that I believe Galzria is extremely unlike to be the night kill for a long time -- either he's scum or his death hurts scum.I again want to say that there is likely more than one scum faction, so this might not be true. In fact, I'd like to keep Galz alive until the night just to see if he gets killed.
I thought the "Study group is town" bit meant that the 7 characters from Modern Family who are in the "Study Group" were town.
I am not going to vote for nkirbit over this but I am also never going to forget it.
Wow, seriously?
"I don't think I can mislynch Nkirbit for this, but if that wagon gets going, you betcha I'm going to bring it up"
There is also another poster (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9308.msg288667#msg288667) that explains the study room rules. If only we could communicate with these fine Americans they might better understand...
I am not going to vote for nkirbit over this but I am also never going to forget it.
Wow, seriously?
"I don't think I can mislynch Nkirbit for this, but if that wagon gets going, you betcha I'm going to bring it up"
You know what I am? Willing to vote: Dsell. My combo list idea is dumb, especially because I now have town reads on mail-mi and chairs due to the nkirbit/study group situation, and xeiron's meta. Going back to the first list for now.
You have.. town reads on mail-mi and chairs for jumping on a "scumslip"? What in the world? That's literally the easiest vote to hide behind.
What's this insanity? My guess is Galzria running a gambit, nothing he has told us this far makes me think he should want to be the lynch or that anyone should want to lynch them.
But how does this gambit make sense? I guess, if he's town, he can see who jumps on board. But if that's the case, it's misleading town. I don't get how his claim makes sense from a town perspective -- it leaves town confused, and scum completely in the know.
I am not going to vote for nkirbit over this but I am also never going to forget it.
Wow, seriously?
"I don't think I can mislynch Nkirbit for this, but if that wagon gets going, you betcha I'm going to bring it up"
I am not going to vote for nkirbit over this but I am also never going to forget it.
Wow, seriously?
"I don't think I can mislynch Nkirbit for this, but if that wagon gets going, you betcha I'm going to bring it up"
You know what I am? Willing to vote: Dsell. My combo list idea is dumb, especially because I now have town reads on mail-mi and chairs due to the nkirbit/study group situation, and xeiron's meta. Going back to the first list for now.
It doesn't.. hence my wondering "what's this insanity?"!What's this insanity? My guess is Galzria running a gambit, nothing he has told us this far makes me think he should want to be the lynch or that anyone should want to lynch them.
But how does this gambit make sense? I guess, if he's town, he can see who jumps on board. But if that's the case, it's misleading town. I don't get how his claim makes sense from a town perspective -- it leaves town confused, and scum completely in the know.
Wait wait wait, what?
You are voting Dsell for jumping on Nkirbit, but you are simultaneous giving Mail-mi and Chairs town reads for also jumping on Nkirbit.
I don't give any of them town reads. I think it's scum. Those are the kind of "mistakes" that scum looks to pounce on, I think.
I think Nkirbit made a simple slip-up, and there was scum who saw it and couldn't wait to point it out.
Why do you find Dsell scummy for this, but Mail-mi and Chairs towny for this?
I am not going to vote for nkirbit over this but I am also never going to forget it.
Wow, seriously?
"I don't think I can mislynch Nkirbit for this, but if that wagon gets going, you betcha I'm going to bring it up"
You know what I am? Willing to vote: Dsell. My combo list idea is dumb, especially because I now have town reads on mail-mi and chairs due to the nkirbit/study group situation, and xeiron's meta. Going back to the first list for now.
I wish you could hear me laughing right now! The quoted post is part of the very same nkirbit/study group situation!
PPE: Ugh it is so hard to get posts through right now
Oh. I see. Study group is the flavor for town in this game. Nope, couldn't have told you that off the top of my head.
Um, yes it is. Look at the first quote in the quote chain you pulled up:I wish you could hear me laughing right now! The quoted post is part of the very same nkirbit/study group situation!
PPE: Ugh it is so hard to get posts through right now
No it's not. I just went back and checked.
I am not going to vote for nkirbit over this but I am also never going to forget it.
Wow, seriously?
"I don't think I can mislynch Nkirbit for this, but if that wagon gets going, you betcha I'm going to bring it up"
You know what I am? Willing to vote: Dsell. My combo list idea is dumb, especially because I now have town reads on mail-mi and chairs due to the nkirbit/study group situation, and xeiron's meta. Going back to the first list for now.
Oh. I see. Study group is the flavor for town in this game. Nope, couldn't have told you that off the top of my head.
Voltaire, this post came BEFORE Chairs said ANYTHING on the subject. How can he possibly get cred for having "study group = town" on the front of their minds? Chairs could have literally never read his PM or the OP and known that, because I said the above in the thread before he responded to it!
Um, yes it is. Look at the first quote in the quote chain you pulled up:I wish you could hear me laughing right now! The quoted post is part of the very same nkirbit/study group situation!
PPE: Ugh it is so hard to get posts through right now
No it's not. I just went back and checked.I am not going to vote for nkirbit over this but I am also never going to forget it.
Wow, seriously?
"I don't think I can mislynch Nkirbit for this, but if that wagon gets going, you betcha I'm going to bring it up"
You know what I am? Willing to vote: Dsell. My combo list idea is dumb, especially because I now have town reads on mail-mi and chairs due to the nkirbit/study group situation, and xeiron's meta. Going back to the first list for now.
Because...they have role PMs? Town will know if their role is enabled, and scum will know if their role is enabled. Right?
Or is this seriously a "hidden" thing? Cause that's bastardly to not know everything in your role PM and I'd be seriously caught off guard
My assumption for normal games is that my role, and everyone else's role, is 100% described in the PM. I doubt there's a town cop getting a "Whoops! Galzria died! No more copping for you!" PM, getting completely blindsided by it.
I thought the "Study group is town" bit meant that the 7 characters from Modern Family who are in the "Study Group" were town.
Ash has written flavor that has meaning before. In Shakespeare, he described me as "Seemingly Dead"... I wasn't actually dead! So I now read all of Ashersky's flavor, even though I really really really really really really really really really wish I didn't have to in a normal game, because I could miss something if I don't.
I thought the "Study group is town" bit meant that the 7 characters from Modern Family who are in the "Study Group" were town.
Ash has written flavor that has meaning before. In Shakespeare, he described me as "Seemingly Dead"... I wasn't actually dead! So I now read all of Ashersky's flavor, even though I really really really really really really really really really wish I didn't have to in a normal game, because I could miss something if I don't.
Nkirbit' explanation does not explain why he failed to recognice 'study group' as 'town'. The fact that he claim to read flavor carefully makes it worse. So he forgot to read his pm-flavour carefully even though Ashersky wrote that as well?
I still think the most plausible answer is that nkirbits pm mentions blorgons, and not the study group, concerning wincon.
Um, yes it is. Look at the first quote in the quote chain you pulled up:I wish you could hear me laughing right now! The quoted post is part of the very same nkirbit/study group situation!
PPE: Ugh it is so hard to get posts through right now
No it's not. I just went back and checked.I am not going to vote for nkirbit over this but I am also never going to forget it.
Wow, seriously?
"I don't think I can mislynch Nkirbit for this, but if that wagon gets going, you betcha I'm going to bring it up"
You know what I am? Willing to vote: Dsell. My combo list idea is dumb, especially because I now have town reads on mail-mi and chairs due to the nkirbit/study group situation, and xeiron's meta. Going back to the first list for now.
Yes that's the point.
Why are you so worried? Worried that we caught you, scum?I thought the "Study group is town" bit meant that the 7 characters from Modern Family who are in the "Study Group" were town.
Ash has written flavor that has meaning before. In Shakespeare, he described me as "Seemingly Dead"... I wasn't actually dead! So I now read all of Ashersky's flavor, even though I really really really really really really really really really wish I didn't have to in a normal game, because I could miss something if I don't.
Nkirbit' explanation does not explain why he failed to recognice 'study group' as 'town'. The fact that he claim to read flavor carefully makes it worse. So he forgot to read his pm-flavour carefully even though Ashersky wrote that as well?
I still think the most plausible answer is that nkirbits pm mentions blorgons, and not the study group, concerning wincon.
Blorgons is not in the OP. Where did you get that term from?
Um, yes it is. Look at the first quote in the quote chain you pulled up:I wish you could hear me laughing right now! The quoted post is part of the very same nkirbit/study group situation!
PPE: Ugh it is so hard to get posts through right now
No it's not. I just went back and checked.I am not going to vote for nkirbit over this but I am also never going to forget it.
Wow, seriously?
"I don't think I can mislynch Nkirbit for this, but if that wagon gets going, you betcha I'm going to bring it up"
You know what I am? Willing to vote: Dsell. My combo list idea is dumb, especially because I now have town reads on mail-mi and chairs due to the nkirbit/study group situation, and xeiron's meta. Going back to the first list for now.
Yes that's the point.
I don't understand what you're saying. What is your point? The post IS part of the same situation, and you're saying it's not. Mail-mi pointed it out.
I'd be down with a shraeye lynch on a LAL basis. We've gotten all sorts of fun reactions to reread later for all the scumslips (and yes, we do have forum history of "scum"slips being town, I'm aware), so I think maybe we've pulled as much information out of these aggressive jumps in logic as we're going to, for now. Hopefully, combined with later data, we'll see some fun opportunities to identify over-happy scum.
vote: shraeye.
Chairs really has been jumping his vote around. Shraeye, then Galzria, then Mail-Mi, then Nkirbit, and now back to Shraeye (the post after Voltaire said something about Shraeye!). As soon as someone comes under suspicion, Chairs votes there!
Vote: Chairs
I'd be down with a shraeye lynch on a LAL basis. We've gotten all sorts of fun reactions to reread later for all the scumslips (and yes, we do have forum history of "scum"slips being town, I'm aware), so I think maybe we've pulled as much information out of these aggressive jumps in logic as we're going to, for now. Hopefully, combined with later data, we'll see some fun opportunities to identify over-happy scum.
vote: shraeye.
Why Shraeye?
Chairs really has been jumping his vote around. Shraeye, then Galzria, then Mail-Mi, then Nkirbit, and now back to Shraeye (the post after Voltaire said something about Shraeye!). As soon as someone comes under suspicion, Chairs votes there!
Vote: Chairs
I'd be down with a shraeye lynch on a LAL basis. We've gotten all sorts of fun reactions to reread later for all the scumslips (and yes, we do have forum history of "scum"slips being town, I'm aware), so I think maybe we've pulled as much information out of these aggressive jumps in logic as we're going to, for now. Hopefully, combined with later data, we'll see some fun opportunities to identify over-happy scum.
vote: shraeye.
Why Shraeye?
Why not Shraeye?Chairs really has been jumping his vote around. Shraeye, then Galzria, then Mail-Mi, then Nkirbit, and now back to Shraeye (the post after Voltaire said something about Shraeye!). As soon as someone comes under suspicion, Chairs votes there!
Vote: Chairs
I'd like to point out that I believe I ran the first flag on both Mail-mi and yourself. "As soon as someone comes under suspicion" would indicate I'm solely sheeping.
I'd be down with a shraeye lynch on a LAL basis. We've gotten all sorts of fun reactions to reread later for all the scumslips (and yes, we do have forum history of "scum"slips being town, I'm aware), so I think maybe we've pulled as much information out of these aggressive jumps in logic as we're going to, for now. Hopefully, combined with later data, we'll see some fun opportunities to identify over-happy scum.
vote: shraeye.
Why Shraeye?
Why not Shraeye?
@voltgloss:
Does your pm use study group as town?
I'd be down with a shraeye lynch on a LAL basis. We've gotten all sorts of fun reactions to reread later for all the scumslips (and yes, we do have forum history of "scum"slips being town, I'm aware), so I think maybe we've pulled as much information out of these aggressive jumps in logic as we're going to, for now. Hopefully, combined with later data, we'll see some fun opportunities to identify over-happy scum.
vote: shraeye.
Why Shraeye?
Why not Shraeye?
Why shraeye as opposed to other lurkers?
I truly am convinced that scumslips don't exist. I don't want to hear this "zero percent chance of flipping town" stuff... a dude made a typo once and everyone's apparently been looking for scumslips ever since.
I truly am convinced that scumslips don't exist. I don't want to hear this "zero percent chance of flipping town" stuff... a dude made a typo once and everyone's apparently been looking for scumslips ever since.
You've forgotten Save the Princess.
tl;dr "Why not shraeye?". I'd be just as happy voting any lurker at this point.
The points on Galz are interesting, but I'm not totally sold that what he did is scummy. Mostly because I'm biased to not think so since he protected me, but then he could be trying to get on my goodside to have me defend him when he's actually scum...
I have no idea how this quote from Eevee is an agreement with anything Ive said.To create interactions to get the game going, I like to participate in the random voting stage by voting for someone who often signals his towniness well to me but hasn't managed to so yet.
Really? In context it just looks like you're agreeing with shraeye.
I think this shot-drawing might be the best use, I'm not sure if lynching you today is a good idea. I do think that cross-team enabling is likely, but given the size of this game, that doesn't necessarily mean mafia->town or town->mafia. If we have multiple teams, stuff could be different. Still, I think that night WIFOM is a good use for your role.I really don't understand why anyone is claiming anything.
Because this could very well draw a shot from Volt tonight if scum feel leaving me alive is a bigger threat.
@voltgloss:
Does your pm use study group as town?
xeiron, why did you ask this?
Hey! I see that my thoughts on eevee's thoughts were accurate! And eevee agrees with this secondary wincon being crap. I like this Eevee!
My thinking here goes like this: Assume we have multiple scum teams. In this case, it's fairly dangerous for scum to make that claim, because one scum team could likely kill Galzria and gain an advantage over both other factions. With two scum teams, he could however also be a Mafia-aligned Werewolf Enabler.. does that even make sense? I'd really like to hear other player's opinions on this. Right now, I tend to believe Galzria.I do not understand what you mean; clarify please.
A short search on google shows that there are 12 major characters in modern family and 9 in community. A total of 21.I agree with this. But then sudgy posted this:
It seems pretty obvious to me that these are the 21 roles in the game.
so possibly not? it looks like other people said they weren't on the posted list either.I think we should show-claim - that is to say, we should claim which of the two shows we're on.
Show claim?!? I'm not in one of them... I think you just accidentally claimed something...
shraeye - was suspicious in the beginning as already pointed out. Since then no posts. Does he lay low, hoping that the small wagon on him dissolves? Maybe. I'll leave my vote here for now.Exactly. I very cleverly scheduled a full season of Tuesday night bowling and a nonstop-full day of work today to coincide with the suspicion that I expected to pick up early-game. The visit from my parents last weekend was the pičce de résistance of my dastardly plan to make sure I was very busy during the last 24 hours.
Yes. But I don't think xeiron did this as much as Twisted (who isn't on faust's list) or Walrus or sudgy. I disagree with Twisted's response in #390 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9308.msg294403#msg294403); this case is different because there is such a premium for attention in a huge game, and we need to focus it on scumhunting, not being chatty.xeiron - some distracting posts. By that I mean posts that push the discussion toward flavor discussion and away from actual scumhunting. I'll give out a light scum read for that.
This is a great way to find scum, actually.
Voltaire openly admitted that he might be biased having just played as Shraeye's scumbuddy.. honesty, or an easy cover?I think fausts vote is the scummiest of the set. His is basically hijacking the vague reasoning that Walrus initially gave (didn't feel right...OH YEAH, didn't feel right to me too!). Especially because that was faust's first interaction with any of the TA/shraeye stuff.
Sudgy and Mail-Mi followed, which is a little scummy to me, but they're always scummy to me.
Walrus did it as well! Says he wasn't impressed with Shraeye and his current attitude doesn't smack of innocence. I kind of disagree with that, his current attitude smacks of Shraeye regardless of alignment (as is to be expected!).
Faust later jumped on. "I'm not very convinced how he answered to the accusations". Vague vague vague.
EFHW: Wrong, if he is town and enables scum then we still shouldn't lynch him because a mislynch is worse than a scum PR, or even an extra NK.
A short search on google shows that there are 12 major characters in modern family and 9 in community. A total of 21.I agree with this. But then sudgy posted this:
It seems pretty obvious to me that these are the 21 roles in the game.so possibly not? it looks like other people said they weren't on the posted list either.I think we should show-claim - that is to say, we should claim which of the two shows we're on.
Show claim?!? I'm not in one of them... I think you just accidentally claimed something...
In addition to being a terrible idea because of the reasons that Voltgloss said, I think that this is exactly the cover that scum are looking for. Voltaire joins my list of scumreads.Right now I'm intending on holding back until otherVolt has a chance to steer us however he wants.
Nobody do this.
As many IC's before me have stated, I have a mathematically lower chance of pinpointing scum than all the rest of the town players in the game. I will step in with respect to things like town plans, where it's important to have a 100% town player calling the shots. And I will definitely be giving my reads. But no town players should be "holding back" waiting for me to "steer" them.
So, maybe I am just fiercely independent or something, but Voltaire posting a list of who we should and should not consider lynching today really grinds my gears. Or maybe it is not that, since it might as well be a list of reads, but the fact that others are just going along with it! Look I realize that it makes it easier to narrow down people in a game this size, but town members letting someone else make that list for them (unless it's an IC) is lazy and anti-town. I don't find Voltaire especially scummy for doing this although it does irk me, but whether he is town or scum, he is sending a message to scum that this town can be controlled. He also left himself off the list, which seems a little presumptuous.I'm not sure who is buying into Voltaire's list other than Voltaire. I'm suspicious of how quickly Voltaire formed so many opinions, maybe concessions need to be made due to the size of the game, but his very early reread seemed unnecessary (some players had hardly any posts at all, what's to reread?). It felt like it was just a gimmick to give credence to his unnaturally quickly formed reads.
I continue to stand by my statement that due to importance of flavor, we are harming ourselves by trying to ignore it.I'm not sure how important flavor is if the mods are also saying this
nkirbit makes an excellent point re: Galzria - I was continually frustrated while watching Galz in HP (even after my lynch) by how much of a leader he became for town. I got the strong impression that this was normal town!Galz... and it's not what we're seeing here, at all.
vote: Galzria.
But that knowledge is NOT required to play this game, or win this game.Also, regarding Galz, he does take the role of townleader often, and I think he's doing it here too, unlike what you say. He's just asking for input (and specifically from Voltgloss, the IC) instead of directly steering peopel whereever he wants to go.
I wouldn't be surprised if a SK was in the list on Galz (which right now is...mailmi, liopoil, mcmcsalot, nkirbit, chairs) off that list I would exclude nkirbit (for pointing it out), but don't have a solid read on the other guys. I guess AHoppy expressed willingness to switch to Galzria, but I think SK would probably have just voted directly.Mcmc and Eevee: Could either of you elaborate?I don't believe that Galzria is a scum-aligned Enabler. Because if he were, claiming Enabler would be very dangerous: With the size of this game, there's a reasonable chance that we have a SK. As SK, I would be more than happy to kill an Enabler, because whomever he enables is my enemy, and it would be almost always in my interest for them to lose their PRs.
I do think that Galzria is an enabler. It doesn't make sense for scum to fake-claim enabler in the way that he did... he could probably just claim doctor enabler, or cop enabler, or something like that and no one would blink (unless they were also that enabler). But unknown enabler? That's weird.
He could be a scum unknown enabler.. does that role make sense? I guess it makes as much sense as town unknown enabler? But does a scum unknown enabler want to claim town unknown enabler day1? I don't know. Maybe?
That same line of thought should also maybe have kept Galzria from claiming as town. But for town, being killed isn't that big of a problem.
So really, I believe there are only two possibilities. 1) Galzria says the truth. 2) Galzria completely made up the whole Enabler thing.
Personally, I don't believe in 2). It's just too far out there.
The SK thing is a great point. I'm also worried about everyone who is jumping on Galz recently.
Unvote
I don't understand the slip.Mathematically, lynching galz is good too. 75% of the time he hurts scum.
1. Town enabling town. This sucks.
2. Town enabling scum. The best mislynch for town, worst for scum.
3. Scum enabling town. It's a small price to pay to lose a scum.
4. Scum enabling scum. LYNCH HIM!
With this, and others' reasons, I will vote: galz.
Bolding the important slip:QuoteMathematically, lynching galz is good too. 75% of the time he hurts scum.
vote: mail-mi
Here's my take on the Galzria thing. I think Galz is more likely town. Maybe just trying to be proactive, maybe partially on the back of success in HP, he makes this announcement about his role and has all the discussion and hoopla about it, but in the meantime is obviously not scumhunting. I don't think that's so much a scummy thing as just a natural result of him taking time for this "big announcement" in a game that's only lasted 36 hours. I kinda wish he hadn't taken the time to do this but it doesn't make him super scummy in my eyes and it does give the town something to talk about.This is my take exactly.
So I'm actually more suspicious of the people who are accusing him and jumping on his bandwagon, because I don't see a genuinely good reason why Galz would do this as town, nor do I think his lack of scumhunting is as egregious as it's being made out to be.
Could it be that Galzria enables an extra scumteam kill?I would find that very tough to balance. Why are you trying so hard to find situations in which Galz is scummy?
The actual question is:
Would having a scumteam with one primary NK and then one secondary NK based on an enabeler work as game mekanic to speed up the start? And maybe even a third NK with a second enabler.
Or would it be to hard to balance?
I am asking those of you with mod and game balancing experience.
The most words but still a terrible stretch in the explanation? That sounds like a good candidate for the SK slot I was looking for before.wow, posts come fast when there's 21 players. I've read most of the posts since my last post, but skimmed the last 15 or so. I know that some people are voting galz because he hasn't been leading town and stuff.
Vote: Galzria
for a much different reason. I would have done this right after his claim post if I had been around.
because this is the exact type of fakeclaim I expect scum to make. (and I expect scum to fakeclaim)
- he claimed early, to get credit for an unprovoked claim (see: yuma, in mean girls)
- not a simple generic role, to make it more believable
and the big one, which is most of my reasoning:
- The answer to "how is this a good idea as town" is very weak. very. scum needs to come up with an excuse to fakeclaim, and this one isn't good. Elaboration:
So, you think you should be lynched because you think that you're helping scum. Well, I don't see you self-voting, and besides, if you are town, getting mislynched is not worth it. A mislynch hurts town way more than scum having a roleblocker or whatever.
Well, maybe you AREN'T saying that you should be lynched. why did you claim then? you mentioned distracting scum from killing VG. That makes no sense - if it is better for town for you to die instead of VG, then scum will just kill VG, not you.
I don't see the point of claiming if you're town.
Vote: Liopoil because this sounds like a huge stretch. Why would scum fakeclaim so early, with something that's tied to another role out there? Provoking him for not self-voting? IMO this is the worst of those who hopped on the Galz bandwagon.
re: liopoil, yup yup yup yup yupmail-mi was pretty bad too.
The 75% comment was like obviously wrong but he might as well have been saying "I agree with all of the above." Liopoil did what I think scum wants to do when they get on a bandwagon: not look like they're getting on a bandwagon but rather look original in their accusations.
so what is scumxeiron like, in your mind?In fact, let me unvote for the time being. I would think that if Shraeye were scum, he would have turned up by now to defend himself more effectively. Maybe he was just being a bit blunt after all. Also, a couple of other people jumped on the Shraeye boat after me with minimal justification--not that my initial reasoning was any less tenuous, but still it raises some eyebrows.I'm actually not so sure about this part. He played quite clever - not responding anymore, waiting for us to move on to someone else. And if this is planned, it worked quite well - the wagon has dissolved. I'll still FOS him.
However I will now Vote: xeiron. He seems to not participate in scumhunting much, but at the same time constantly asks questions regarding flavor, setup speculation and such. This reads scummy to me.
Welcome to town!xeiron, actually.
It was a silly claim, in all honesty. Galzria doesn't know if he's enabling scum or town, but scum will probably know. They know whether or not Galzria is a good NK target. This gives scum so much more knowledge.No, his claim also works if people believe it without requiring another PR to claim/confirm
I'm not sure what Galzria was honestly expecting to happen. If he's a scum-enabler, he's given scum more information, which they obviously won't claim during the day. If he's a town-enabler, the only way the claim works is if a town PR claims. But then, he's an obvious nightkill target.
Now, I don't think Galzria took this role out of left field. And I do believe that it's much more likely that he enables scum than townThe first sentence takes the stance "Galz's claim is wrong but didn't come from nowhere, there is a scum enabled thing." But the second sentence says "I do believe that Galz is an enabler, and that he enables scum". Scum enabling scum is the least likely scenario, I think so these two sentences just give me a very conflicted view of Twisted's opinion. I suspect his opinion is conflicted because he's scum.
Galz' claim makes much more sense from a scum perspective than a town perspective, but I think that regardless, my big takeaway at the moment is that we have a scum role that's town enabled.If you are 100% certain that there is a scum role that's enabled by town, why don't you think that Galz has that town role? This whole post seems to say a lot of words but still makes no sense to me.
Galzria doesn't know if he's enabling scum or town, but scum will probably know. They know whether or not Galzria is a good NK target.
TA, why do you think scum will know whether Galz enables a town- or scum-role? (assuming Galz is town)
Because...they have role PMs? Town will know if their role is enabled, and scum will know if their role is enabled. Right?
Or is this seriously a "hidden" thing? Cause that's bastardly to not know everything in your role PM and I'd be seriously caught off guard
My assumption for normal games is that my role, and everyone else's role, is 100% described in the PM. I doubt there's a town cop getting a "Whoops! Galzria died! No more copping for you!" PM, getting completely blindsided by it.
I think I'm a good lynch choice. I really do. If Volt thinks so, I'll happily self-vote. I think I'm better off alive today, and give scum the choice to NK me. But I wouldn't have offered myself up if I didn't think my lynch had merit.
The accusation that I'm not leading like HP is a little ridiculous though. I was an IC after my claim (or damn near so). I acted like it. I put my foot down and stepped on people when I felt it needed to be done. I had that luxury.
Here, my claim isn't as strong as Cop. We can't play follow the Cop like we could there. I'm not an IC. This isn't an open setup. I shouldn't under any circumstances be Doctored at night. My life in this game is set to be short-lived.
What are your reads?
1Has a scum read on me for playing the game. 2Finds most of the active players scummy. 3Scum lurks (overall - in a three man team one is probably active - lynch lurkers still works). 4Is posting stuff that already happened and 5taking safe positions.1.oversimplified and false
Where are bocaJ or Arche?
Yeah, I'm here. Been writing essays and popping in here occasionally.Where are bocaJ or Arche?
Arche has been around, unless I'm confusing him and AHoppy. bocaJ last posted at 4:30 AM forum time yesterday but I THINK he's on Hawaii time so that's not crazy.
I found this interesting. Vote: Dsell. I don't throw votes around too much, but I'll put one down now. I had the same exact reaction as TA when I read it.I am not going to vote for nkirbit over this but I am also never going to forget it.
Wow, seriously?
"I don't think I can mislynch Nkirbit for this, but if that wagon gets going, you betcha I'm going to bring it up"
If killing you helps town, then scum will not nk you. so you simply cannot make that arguement. and if you are town, getting lynched is still bad because that's a mislynch and mislynches are terribad. infact, by NOT claiming you have a better chance of getting NKed. And if you are scum, claiming to want to be killed can make sense as long as you don't actually get lynched, which you think is quite likely because well if you are the role you say you are we shouldn't lynch you. However, I am coming around to the possibility that you are town who mistakenly claimed.
Could it be that Galzria enables an extra scumteam kill?I think it's almost too much positive feedback, you know? I guess it could be a thing, but it's something I wouldn't see included in a normal game. And enablers usually turn a power off, not on.
The actual question is:
Would having a scumteam with one primary NK and then one secondary NK based on an enabeler work as game mekanic to speed up the start? And maybe even a third NK with a second enabler.
Or would it be to hard to balance?
I am asking those of you with mod and game balancing experience.
re: Galzria, I think I can see why he claimed, and it's very pro-town. If he is enabling a scum power, it is in town's interest to lynch him ASAP. Why wait? The problem is, how sure can we be that he is enabling a scum power?
Um, yes it is. Look at the first quote in the quote chain you pulled up:I wish you could hear me laughing right now! The quoted post is part of the very same nkirbit/study group situation!
PPE: Ugh it is so hard to get posts through right now
No it's not. I just went back and checked.I am not going to vote for nkirbit over this but I am also never going to forget it.
Wow, seriously?
"I don't think I can mislynch Nkirbit for this, but if that wagon gets going, you betcha I'm going to bring it up"
You know what I am? Willing to vote: Dsell. My combo list idea is dumb, especially because I now have town reads on mail-mi and chairs due to the nkirbit/study group situation, and xeiron's meta. Going back to the first list for now.
Yes that's the point.
I don't understand what you're saying. What is your point? The post IS part of the same situation, and you're saying it's not. Mail-mi pointed it out.
You could also phrase it that I'm sheeping TA that you're trying to be on both sides of an nkirbit lynch. But now I see xeiron's latest point, which is pretty darn good too. Honestly this is now moving too fast for me and I don't know what to think.
Also shraeye's wagon evaporated after he lurked. That is best-case scenario for scum. I could go back to voting there too.
I found this interesting. Vote: Dsell. I don't throw votes around too much, but I'll put one down now. I had the same exact reaction as TA when I read it.I am not going to vote for nkirbit over this but I am also never going to forget it.
Wow, seriously?
"I don't think I can mislynch Nkirbit for this, but if that wagon gets going, you betcha I'm going to bring it up"
@Galz, I couldn't figure out what he was saying. I just gave up trying!
I think I'm a good lynch choice. I really do. If Volt thinks so, I'll happily self-vote. I think I'm better off alive today, and give scum the choice to NK me. But I wouldn't have offered myself up if I didn't think my lynch had merit.
The accusation that I'm not leading like HP is a little ridiculous though. I was an IC after my claim (or damn near so). I acted like it. I put my foot down and stepped on people when I felt it needed to be done. I had that luxury.
Here, my claim isn't as strong as Cop. We can't play follow the Cop like we could there. I'm not an IC. This isn't an open setup. I shouldn't under any circumstances be Doctored at night. My life in this game is set to be short-lived.
What are your reads?
Galz - why are you not scumhunting?
I'm not sure which part it is you don't understand. The reason why it would be dangerous for Galz to claim as scum-aligned town Enabler gets clearer in my later post about the SK thing (that you also quoted). The reasoning there holds not only if there is a SK, but also if there is a scum faction which knows it has no enabled roles (we agree that if a role is enabled, that would be known to the player, right?).My thinking here goes like this: Assume we have multiple scum teams. In this case, it's fairly dangerous for scum to make that claim, because one scum team could likely kill Galzria and gain an advantage over both other factions. With two scum teams, he could however also be a Mafia-aligned Werewolf Enabler.. does that even make sense? I'd really like to hear other player's opinions on this. Right now, I tend to believe Galzria.I do not understand what you mean; clarify please.
Could it be that Galzria enables an extra scumteam kill?I think it's almost too much positive feedback, you know? I guess it could be a thing, but it's something I wouldn't see included in a normal game. And enablers usually turn a power off, not on.
The actual question is:
Would having a scumteam with one primary NK and then one secondary NK based on an enabeler work as game mekanic to speed up the start? And maybe even a third NK with a second enabler.
Or would it be to hard to balance?
I am asking those of you with mod and game balancing experience.
I think it's plausible, just not likely.
2.Could it be that Galzria enables an extra scumteam kill?I would find that very tough to balance. Why are you trying so hard to find situations in which Galz is scummy?
The actual question is:
Would having a scumteam with one primary NK and then one secondary NK based on an enabeler work as game mekanic to speed up the start? And maybe even a third NK with a second enabler.
Or would it be to hard to balance?
I am asking those of you with mod and game balancing experience.
That's an interesting claim by bocaJ. Questions for clarity: Do you get to choose whether you use your ability yourself, or does it just happen automatically? Does "2-shot" mean "works for 2 players targeting you" or "works for two nights"?
Not sure what to make of this claim. I tend to believe it because it comes from a newbie, but at might be dangerous. It has also already been pointed out in the thread that early claims are a clever scum strategy. And a claim like this gives a good reason why he does not get nightkilled or investigated upon.
In fact, with more thinking, the claim strikes me as rather anti-town: Scum can probably just assume he is right and not target him, but town doesn't know whether he tells the truth and also has no risk-free way of finding out. It would have been better for town, I believe, if such a role remains hidden. Investigative roles are more likely to target active players anyway. Maybe I should stop giving out newbie bonusses here, and just Vote: bocaJ
And thinking about bocaJ, Paranoid Gun Owner seems a decent way to buff a SK in a setup like this.
That whole series makes me feel like he's scum unable to defend clearly his own accusations, and so aimed to change the subject.
G. Why are you singling one person (me) out for this, when there are plenty of others also not 'hunting' much to date? Along with other stances you've taken, and things you've said, feels an awful lot like you're trying to look for reasons to paint suspicion around, instead of genuinely hunting yourself. You're not trying to find scum in things that have been said, you're trying to paint scum accusations with whatever you can find to stick.
I certainly got frustrated last night. I'm going to try to re-read yesterday's craziness in a fresh light this morning. I have no idea why my statements on Dsell were so confusing to everyone but apparently they were, because not a single person seems to have understood them.
Well, Serial Killer usually is one of the harder roles to win with, right? (I never actually played a game with a Serial Killer in it) So it needs something to make it stronger. Especially in a large setup like this one it's hard to get everyone killed. Giving the Serial Killer a Paranoid Gun Owner makes them investigation-immune to an extent, and also makes for more night deaths.And thinking about bocaJ, Paranoid Gun Owner seems a decent way to buff a SK in a setup like this.
faust: why?
I think it is makes sense for bocaJ to claim at this point. I agree with him that he would more likely be targeted by town powerroles (PR) than by scum during the coming night, and then claiming is the safest way to not be of negative utility for town. Town read on bocaJ.What kind of power roles do you think would have been likely to target bocaJ? Protective roles obviously want to target someone who's more likely to be killed. Investigative roles are more likely to target active and/or vet players, because a town result actually helps there (you can re-read the target and look at whom they find scummy).
What kind of power roles do you think would have been likely to target bocaJ? Protective roles obviously want to target someone who's more likely to be killed. Investigative roles are more likely to target active and/or vet players, because a town result actually helps there (you can re-read the target and look at whom they find scummy).
I don't know, I just believe the claim wa not the best idea. Had I been given that role, I certainly would have played it differently, trying to attract lots of scum attention in order to actually be night-killed, because that's like the best thing that can happen with that role.
Um, yes it is. Look at the first quote in the quote chain you pulled up:I wish you could hear me laughing right now! The quoted post is part of the very same nkirbit/study group situation!
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No it's not. I just went back and checked.I am not going to vote for nkirbit over this but I am also never going to forget it.
Wow, seriously?
"I don't think I can mislynch Nkirbit for this, but if that wagon gets going, you betcha I'm going to bring it up"
You know what I am? Willing to vote: Dsell. My combo list idea is dumb, especially because I now have town reads on mail-mi and chairs due to the nkirbit/study group situation, and xeiron's meta. Going back to the first list for now.
Yes that's the point.
I don't understand what you're saying. What is your point? The post IS part of the same situation, and you're saying it's not. Mail-mi pointed it out.
You could also phrase it that I'm sheeping TA that you're trying to be on both sides of an nkirbit lynch. But now I see xeiron's latest point, which is pretty darn good too. Honestly this is now moving too fast for me and I don't know what to think.
Also shraeye's wagon evaporated after he lurked. That is best-case scenario for scum. I could go back to voting there too.
Ooogh... So many posts...
Sorry, guys, this has been a really busy week for me, and there are so many posts... I don't think I like these huge games all that much (nothing against the mods, just this size in general).
Now, I think that on earlier days, we might want to lynch differently than usual. I don't have too solid of reads at this point (mainly because I just read 10 pages at once), and would almost want to roll a 1d20. Now, I know I shouldn't, and will go back to Vote: shraeye for the earlier reasons.
Also, when chairs said show claim, I thought he was saying claiming something about which bar we were related to... That was my mistake.
Why is this grounds for a lio vote?
Because this:Liopoil did what I think scum wants to do when they get on a bandwagon: not look like they're getting on a bandwagon but rather look original in their accusations.
To expound a bit, I just don't think lio is adding much, even though he made a long post which starts off by him saying he's voting "for a different reason." He makes some comparisons to what scum "usually" does which mostly just amounts to WIFOM, and then adds a few provocative lines directed at Galz. It's just not a good case, I don't think.
I am not going to vote for nkirbit over this but I am also never going to forget it.
Wow, seriously?
"I don't think I can mislynch Nkirbit for this, but if that wagon gets going, you betcha I'm going to bring it up"
You know what I am? Willing to vote: Dsell. My combo list idea is dumb, especially because I now have town reads on mail-mi and chairs due to the nkirbit/study group situation, and xeiron's meta. Going back to the first list for now.
Wait wait wait, what?
You are voting Dsell for jumping on Nkirbit, but you are simultaneous giving Mail-mi and Chairs town reads for also jumping on Nkirbit.
I don't give any of them town reads. I think it's scum. Those are the kind of "mistakes" that scum looks to pounce on, I think.
I think Nkirbit made a simple slip-up, and there was scum who saw it and couldn't wait to point it out.
Why do you find Dsell scummy for this, but Mail-mi and Chairs towny for this?
I don't understand what you're saying. What is your point? The post IS part of the same situation, and you're saying it's not. Mail-mi pointed it out.
You could also phrase it that I'm sheeping TA that you're trying to be on both sides of an nkirbit lynch. But now I see xeiron's latest point, which is pretty darn good too. Honestly this is now moving too fast for me and I don't know what to think.
Also shraeye's wagon evaporated after he lurked. That is best-case scenario for scum. I could go back to voting there too.
Nkirbit' explanation does not explain why he failed to recognice 'study group' as 'town'. The fact that he claim to read flavor carefully makes it worse. So he forgot to read his pm-flavour carefully even though Ashersky wrote that as well?
I still think the most plausible answer is that nkirbits pm mentions blorgons, and not the study group, concerning wincon.
1.In addition to being a terrible idea because of the reasons that Voltgloss said, I think that this is exactly the cover that scum are looking for. Voltaire joins my list of scumreads.Right now I'm intending on holding back until otherVolt has a chance to steer us however he wants.
Nobody do this.
As many IC's before me have stated, I have a mathematically lower chance of pinpointing scum than all the rest of the town players in the game. I will step in with respect to things like town plans, where it's important to have a 100% town player calling the shots. And I will definitely be giving my reads. But no town players should be "holding back" waiting for me to "steer" them.
I'm not sure who is buying into Voltaire's list other than Voltaire. I'm suspicious of how quickly Voltaire formed so many opinions, maybe concessions need to be made due to the size of the game, but his very early reread seemed unnecessary (some players had hardly any posts at all, what's to reread?). It felt like it was just a gimmick to give credence to his unnaturally quickly formed reads.
Ooooh, I see in #424 that faust is using that list. That's another suspicious point for faust (the vague/sheeping vote onto me being the first)
I'd be super cool with voting Voltaire, liopoil, Twisted, faust. FoS on Walrus and sudgy. Other people I've probably mentioned along the way.
1Has a scum read on me for playing the game. 2Finds most of the active players scummy. 3Scum lurks (overall - in a three man team one is probably active - lynch lurkers still works). 4Is posting stuff that already happened and 5taking safe positions.1.oversimplified and false
2. straight up false.
3.questionable.
4.yes, it's either that or don't catch up at all.
5. conflicts with your point #2.
Voltaire, where in your post did you answer Dsell's question (as I highlighted)?
Voltaire: Here's the issue. Bolded parts for emphasis.Um, yes it is. Look at the first quote in the quote chain you pulled up:I wish you could hear me laughing right now! The quoted post is part of the very same nkirbit/study group situation!
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No it's not. I just went back and checked.I am not going to vote for nkirbit over this but I am also never going to forget it.
Wow, seriously?
"I don't think I can mislynch Nkirbit for this, but if that wagon gets going, you betcha I'm going to bring it up"
You know what I am? Willing to vote: Dsell. My combo list idea is dumb, especially because I now have town reads on mail-mi and chairs due to the nkirbit/study group situation, and xeiron's meta. Going back to the first list for now.
Yes that's the point.
I don't understand what you're saying. What is your point? The post IS part of the same situation, and you're saying it's not. Mail-mi pointed it out.
You could also phrase it that I'm sheeping TA that you're trying to be on both sides of an nkirbit lynch. But now I see xeiron's latest point, which is pretty darn good too. Honestly this is now moving too fast for me and I don't know what to think.
Also shraeye's wagon evaporated after he lurked. That is best-case scenario for scum. I could go back to voting there too.
Your post after Dsell's last question - "What is your point?" - does not actually address Dsell's question. It helps explain your thinking, yes; but it doesn't answer the specific question: "Why did you say Dsell's post was not part of the nkirbit/study group situation?"
I wish you could hear me laughing right now! The quoted post is part of the very same nkirbit/study group situation!
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No it's not. I just went back and checked.
Let me try to clarify and simplify, Voltaire, because you keep answering questions other than the one that's being asked.I wish you could hear me laughing right now! The quoted post is part of the very same nkirbit/study group situation!
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No it's not. I just went back and checked.
Voltaire: can you please explain the bolded part above?
Mega-post part 2: the shraeye stuff.1.In addition to being a terrible idea because of the reasons that Voltgloss said, I think that this is exactly the cover that scum are looking for. Voltaire joins my list of scumreads.Right now I'm intending on holding back until otherVolt has a chance to steer us however he wants.
Nobody do this.
As many IC's before me have stated, I have a mathematically lower chance of pinpointing scum than all the rest of the town players in the game. I will step in with respect to things like town plans, where it's important to have a 100% town player calling the shots. And I will definitely be giving my reads. But no town players should be "holding back" waiting for me to "steer" them.
This is the first time shraeye calls something I have done scummy. I stand by my actions at the time being correct. Based on everything that had happened at the time, I had poked and prodded as much as I wanted, and Voltlgoss had said he was going to be posting a lot in the future. I knew that would get the thread moving again. Apparently I should have just started lurking instead of posting, as I was found scummy for not filling the thread when I had nothing to say. Unfortunately, this is another moment when apparently the way to avoid being found scummy is to lurk. This is terribad precedent.
Let me try to clarify and simplify, Voltaire, because you keep answering questions other than the one that's being asked.I wish you could hear me laughing right now! The quoted post is part of the very same nkirbit/study group situation!
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No it's not. I just went back and checked.
Voltaire: can you please explain the bolded part above?
Dsell said nothing himself about knowing Study Group = town. That's why I gave mail-mi (*and chairs incorrectly) town-cred. Because they (turns out just mail-mi) had reactions which implied this was something they knew from PMs. Dsell sounded like he was replying to everyone else and therefore could have learned this through ash's posts/all the reactions. See my other posts for how I was giving mail-mi and chairs* cred not for scumslip voting, but for knowing Study-Group = town. It's a short window.
Basically this I think is a talking-past-each other situation. Dsell defines "this situation" as the entire nkirbit scumslip universe. I defined "this situation" as mail-mi and chairs* saying "study group = town".
Voltaire, I don't understand what you are saying here. As I understood shraeye's point, he found you scummy for, effectively, saying "I'm now going to lurk until Voltgloss tells us what to do."
You weren't suspected for being active. You were suspected for announcing future intent to lurk. That's... the opposite of being active.
Actually - this is all related to Dsell, and I feel I've already explained myself here. At least as far as his accusations toward me are concerned.
I think I'm a good lynch choice. I really do. If Volt thinks so, I'll happily self-vote. I think I'm better off alive today, and give scum the choice to NK me. But I wouldn't have offered myself up if I didn't think my lynch had merit.
The accusation that I'm not leading like HP is a little ridiculous though. I was an IC after my claim (or damn near so). I acted like it. I put my foot down and stepped on people when I felt it needed to be done. I had that luxury.
Here, my claim isn't as strong as Cop. We can't play follow the Cop like we could there. I'm not an IC. This isn't an open setup. I shouldn't under any circumstances be Doctored at night. My life in this game is set to be short-lived.
What are your reads?
Galz - why are you not scumhunting?
A. The thread has been open... 48 hours?
B. This game is much, much larger than most games. That makes it harder.
C. Listening is often as important as talking.
D. This is very similar to how I played Robz' massive game D1, before coming out late to nail scum.
E. I've been just a LITTLE bit preoccupied with my own things going on in-game, and trying to get them straightened out.
F. I work a lot of hours. I post things relating to what's on my mind when I can. My own claim and what comes of it has been at the forefront of my thoughts.
G. Why are you singling one person (me) out for this, when there are plenty of others also not 'hunting' much to date? Along with other stances you've taken, and things you've said, feels an awful lot like you're trying to look for reasons to paint suspicion around, instead of genuinely hunting yourself. You're not trying to find scum in things that have been said, you're trying to paint scum accusations with whatever you can find to stick.
Actually - this is all related to Dsell, and I feel I've already explained myself here. At least as far as his accusations toward me are concerned.
Ok, this is RIDICULOUS.
I have been totally hands off about this situation since basically giving up after you stopped making sense. I think it's pretty clear that I was not the only one confused, that's been clearly borne out through Galz' and Voltgloss' questions. The ONLY thing I've accused you of is making no sense (clearly I'm not the only one who thinks so). Earlier on I said it bugged me how you suggested that the town select their lynch target from your little list, but I specifically said I didn't necessarily find it scummy. I haven't voted for you. OTHERS are accusing you of being scummy for the situation between us, NOT ME. What are these "accusations toward you" you are referring to??
Voltgoss, can we get a post count?
Actually - this is all related to Dsell, and I feel I've already explained myself here. At least as far as his accusations toward me are concerned.
Ok, this is RIDICULOUS.
I have been totally hands off about this situation since basically giving up after you stopped making sense. I think it's pretty clear that I was not the only one confused, that's been clearly borne out through Galz' and Voltgloss' questions. The ONLY thing I've accused you of is making no sense (clearly I'm not the only one who thinks so). Earlier on I said it bugged me how you suggested that the town select their lynch target from your little list, but I specifically said I didn't necessarily find it scummy. I haven't voted for you. OTHERS are accusing you of being scummy for the situation between us, NOT ME. What are these "accusations toward you" you are referring to??
Yikes, what the heck? You're the one who accused me of not making any sense initially (via the "I wish you could see me laughing..." post and the following exchange). And everything else you say I agree with, and it's clear in the rest of my recent posts. This reads as a crazy overreaction to me.
I am sorry if it's an overreaction, I thought you meant some other accusation besides "I don't understand you" since I am obviously not the only one in that boat. If that is really what you mean then I don't even know why you bring it up. Hardly an "accusation" in a game like this, I was just looking for answers. And I think I've been pretty gracious to you here...you've been confusing and somewhat irksome (sorry, just a playstyle difference) and I haven't said much about it. So saying that I'm making accusations toward you is just a little much.
I feel that bocaJ's claim is a more important topic to discuss right now.
Galz: What do you think about faust's point that, if there is a SK in this game, they will want to kill you at night REGARDLESS of whether you enable town or enable mafia?
Mathematically, lynching galz is good too. 75% of the time he hurts scum.
1. Town enabling town. This sucks.
2. Town enabling scum. The best mislynch for town, worst for scum.
3. Scum enabling town. It's a small price to pay to lose a scum.
4. Scum enabling scum. LYNCH HIM!
With this, and others' reasons, I will vote: galz.
I don't see why Galzria would want to go down that route if he was a scum enabler. I don't think he would come up with early fakeclaiming enabler if he wasn't a enabler. Too weird to be mafia.
wow, posts come fast when there's 21 players. I've read most of the posts since my last post, but skimmed the last 15 or so. I know that some people are voting galz because he hasn't been leading town and stuff.
Vote: Galzria
for a much different reason. I would have done this right after his claim post if I had been around.
because this is the exact type of fakeclaim I expect scum to make. (and I expect scum to fakeclaim)
- he claimed early, to get credit for an unprovoked claim (see: yuma, in mean girls)
- not a simple generic role, to make it more believable
and the big one, which is most of my reasoning:
- The answer to "how is this a good idea as town" is very weak. very. scum needs to come up with an excuse to fakeclaim, and this one isn't good. Elaboration:
So, you think you should be lynched because you think that you're helping scum. Well, I don't see you self-voting, and besides, if you are town, getting mislynched is not worth it. A mislynch hurts town way more than scum having a roleblocker or whatever.
Well, maybe you AREN'T saying that you should be lynched. why did you claim then? you mentioned distracting scum from killing VG. That makes no sense - if it is better for town for you to die instead of VG, then scum will just kill VG, not you.
I don't see the point of claiming if you're town.
can the mods edit community spoilers out of galz' post?
I am here to play a mafia game, not have a tv show I'm partway though spoiled.
Apologies TA. If I could've easily linked like I did with MF, I would've done so.
Still, I think that ignoring character personalities could be detrimental to finding scum, as I doubt that you'll see "slimy" type characters as town, and "sweet innocent" characters as scum. Flavor matters, and I suspect Ash and Yuma will have tried their best to be as thematic as possible.
Yeah I honestly think the secondary wincons are kind of silly. Hence my flippant attitude towards them--I didn't even think that there might be a more significant impact. So far as I'm aware this Red Door/L Street business is completely peripheral, but who knows.
I'm finding Galz's reveal to be kind of strange. I mean, don't get me wrong, it's cool and interesting, which is fun, but seems like it could be a little strategically premature to me. I wouldn't vote to lynch him unless everyone else thinks it's a great idea--honestly I still am clueless as to what the potential outcomes of that might be.
I know I semi-inadvertently revealed my flavor before, but I won't say anything actually related to the mechanics of the thing unless the consensus to do so is there.
Anyone playing to their secondary win con is lame, don't do it. Even if you want to achieve it somewhere down the road, clogging the thread with stuff that's at best useless for town is not optimal.
To clarify: I do not choose when it is activated (it's always on at night). My PM says that the first two times I am targeted at night, I reflexively kill the person who targets me.
I stand by my assessment that, especially N1, it was probable that I would be subject to a town/investagatory target since I was a person of interest on many people's lists, and it was unlikely that I would be a scum target N1 for the same reason, and also because you folks all seem slightly biased against killing new players early. Thus. the odds of my ability killing scum early on are low and odds of an additional town being killed are moderate, better for me to self reveal.
If potential investigators feel it is essential to investigate me, I am essentially saying, better to just lynch me instead.
Well, I'm still not convinced. And I believe that "he's new, he wouldn't be able to pull something like this off" is a dangerous line of thinking. We shouldn't underestimate anyone. And Dsell is right that he could have recieved instructions.
Well, I believe it. He has a plausible through-line as town to think he should claim, he's new so he wouldn't necessarily know cops generally target more active players (something that obviously also depends on the cop!), and with me talking about scum being in the lurkers so much, I completely see why he would be worried he might kill a town cop tonight. He's also new to forum mafia and most of the roles, so I doubt he fake-claims a role
Like I said, I 100% believe his role claim, and think he's very likely town. Do you still think he's SK?
Something else: Do you guys (especially Voltgloss) think it would help if bocaJ flavor claims, so that someone familiar with the show can tell us whether his roleclaim makes sense flavorwise?
Oh. I see. Study group is the flavor for town in this game. Nope, couldn't have told you that off the top of my head.
Here's my take on the Galzria thing. I think Galz is more likely town. Maybe just trying to be proactive, maybe partially on the back of success in HP, he makes this announcement about his role and has all the discussion and hoopla about it, but in the meantime is obviously not scumhunting. I don't think that's so much a scummy thing as just a natural result of him taking time for this "big announcement" in a game that's only lasted 36 hours. I kinda wish he hadn't taken the time to do this but it doesn't make him super scummy in my eyes and it does give the town something to talk about.
So I'm actually more suspicious of the people who are accusing him and jumping on his bandwagon, because I don't see a genuinely good reason why Galz would do this as town, nor do I think his lack of scumhunting is as egregious as it's being made out to be.
Completely off subject (well, kind of), I have a VERY good reason to think that if we have a Cop in the game, they should investigate Robz. I can't really go into detail right now without creating a compromising situation, but remember that I said this if I die today/tonight. Knowing that he's town (or rather, not scum) will HELP.
Something else: Do you guys (especially Voltgloss) think it would help if bocaJ flavor claims, so that someone familiar with the show can tell us whether his roleclaim makes sense flavorwise?
I've known what his flavor is since his first two posts. Google it.
Oh. I see. Study group is the flavor for town in this game. Nope, couldn't have told you that off the top of my head.
Definitely have lynched people for less than this before. And it's worth pointing out that the reverse of this scumslip has proved correct before. In Mafia XIX, Dsell supplie info from a Town PR that was not publicly available, making him basically IC from the get go, eventually I think we lynched him anyway (largely scum-driven, perhaps by me as scum), and he was indeed town.
Something else: Do you guys (especially Voltgloss) think it would help if bocaJ flavor claims, so that someone familiar with the show can tell us whether his roleclaim makes sense flavorwise?
I've known what his flavor is since his first two posts. Google it.
Is the character known for paranoia?
I was town.Oh. I see. Study group is the flavor for town in this game. Nope, couldn't have told you that off the top of my head.
Definitely have lynched people for less than this before. And it's worth pointing out that the reverse of this scumslip has proved correct before. In Mafia XIX, Dsell supplie info from a Town PR that was not publicly available, making him basically IC from the get go, eventually I think we lynched him anyway (largely scum-driven, perhaps by me as scum), and he was indeed town.
Yes! This is what I've been thinking about. I could not remember which game it was but I have used this before, which is part of why I said it would stick in my mind in the first place.
The situation was me, as town, calling out Eevee for basically this same thing (seemingly not knowing town flavor info). The thing is that I don't remember whether Eevee actually turned out to be town or scum.
I ask everyone (who has not already done so) to please weigh in on whether you think lynching Galz today is a good idea. And why.I don't think it's a good idea, because I think the claim is way more likely to come from a town member. He might enable something for scum, but we don't know how strong that something is. He might enable something for town, and if that's the case we'd effectively lynch a town power role which is yuck yuck bad.
I was town.Oh. I see. Study group is the flavor for town in this game. Nope, couldn't have told you that off the top of my head.
Definitely have lynched people for less than this before. And it's worth pointing out that the reverse of this scumslip has proved correct before. In Mafia XIX, Dsell supplie info from a Town PR that was not publicly available, making him basically IC from the get go, eventually I think we lynched him anyway (largely scum-driven, perhaps by me as scum), and he was indeed town.
Yes! This is what I've been thinking about. I could not remember which game it was but I have used this before, which is part of why I said it would stick in my mind in the first place.
The situation was me, as town, calling out Eevee for basically this same thing (seemingly not knowing town flavor info). The thing is that I don't remember whether Eevee actually turned out to be town or scum.
I ask everyone (who has not already done so) to please weigh in on whether you think lynching Galz today is a good idea. And why.I don't think it's a good idea, because I think the claim is way more likely to come from a town member. He might enable something for scum, but we don't know how strong that something is. He might enable something for town, and if that's the case we'd effectively lynch a town power role which is yuck yuck bad.
Also, I think that roles that are optimally played by getting yourself killed and thus not letting you play are problematic or even bastardly.
Well, I don't think it's clear at all that it would be optimal for you to get killed even if you do enable something for scum.I ask everyone (who has not already done so) to please weigh in on whether you think lynching Galz today is a good idea. And why.I don't think it's a good idea, because I think the claim is way more likely to come from a town member. He might enable something for scum, but we don't know how strong that something is. He might enable something for town, and if that's the case we'd effectively lynch a town power role which is yuck yuck bad.
Also, I think that roles that are optimally played by getting yourself killed and thus not letting you play are problematic or even bastardly.
I disagree with your last sentiment, and so does Mafiawiki. This role setup is considered innovative, creative and a great balancing tool. How the player uses it is up to them, and having it redacted from my PM creates question as to what the optimal play actually is. It's not clear, and many (if not most) may not take the path I chose.
I ask everyone (who has not already done so) to please weigh in on whether you think lynching Galz today is a good idea. And why.I don't think it's a good idea, because I think the claim is way more likely to come from a town member. He might enable something for scum, but we don't know how strong that something is. He might enable something for town, and if that's the case we'd effectively lynch a town power role which is yuck yuck bad.
Also, I think that roles that are optimally played by getting yourself killed and thus not letting you play are problematic or even bastardly.
What we DON'T want is to bounce from lynch possibility to lynch possibility, forcing out all our PR claims - which has happened too many times in the past.
For D1, what's considered an acceptable lynch? What's historically likely? We would rather lynch scum, yes, but hitting a VT isn't terrible. It provides all sorts of wagon analysis and interactions for future days.
There's one piece your analysis leaves out, Galz:For D1, what's considered an acceptable lynch? What's historically likely? We would rather lynch scum, yes, but hitting a VT isn't terrible. It provides all sorts of wagon analysis and interactions for future days.
If you are town and we lynch you, we risk losing that wagon analysis and interactions info. Every scum who votes for you has a ready-made and unassailable reason for doing so: "I figured he was the best lynch regardless of his alignment." It's similar to my being lynched over a <i>scumslip</i> in Doctor Who mafia.
It sucks to lose Galz Day 1, as well. He's pretty useful.
I'd say we have no good reason to lynch him, except that his claim is a weird one to me and I disagree with his reasoning for it, and for why he should be lynched, and it's weird and makes me think it's a scum tactic.
Vote: wedge saladThis post seems fishy to me. Or, well, I disagree with everything but the last line, and I don't follow the logic sudgy uses to arrive to his conclusions.
Alright, on Galzria: I think he would be a good lynch for tomorrow. Scum -might- kill him tonight, and if not, we can lynch him tomorrow. I agree with others that his claim was a bit weird.
I also agree with others saying that voltaire is weird, so Vote: Voltaire.
I'll see if I can get a skim-reread done before the day is over, and post a reads list. This is hard enough already.
Oh yeah, I believe bocaJ's claim. I think it was the correct thing to do at the time.
There's one piece your analysis leaves out, Galz:For D1, what's considered an acceptable lynch? What's historically likely? We would rather lynch scum, yes, but hitting a VT isn't terrible. It provides all sorts of wagon analysis and interactions for future days.
If you are town and we lynch you, we risk losing that wagon analysis and interactions info. Every scum who votes for you has a ready-made and unassailable reason for doing so: "I figured he was the best lynch regardless of his alignment." It's similar to my being lynched over a <i>scumslip</i> in Doctor Who mafia.
Do not support lynching Galzria. It allows scum to hide easily in the group consensus of lunging Galzria as opposed to taking actual stances
Would be okay with the vig shooting galz if we in fact have a vig
Do not support lynching Galzria. It allows scum to hide easily in the group consensus of lunging Galzria as opposed to taking actual stances
Would be okay with the vig shooting galz if we in fact have a vig
Do not support lynching Galzria. It allows scum to hide easily in the group consensus of lunging Galzria as opposed to taking actual stances
Would be okay with the vig shooting galz if we in fact have a vig
Do not support lynching Galzria. It allows scum to hide easily in the group consensus of lunging Galzria as opposed to taking actual stances
Would be okay with the vig shooting galz if we in fact have a vig
I never thought of this. Vig, if you're out there, shoot galz tonight.
Do not support lynching Galzria. It allows scum to hide easily in the group consensus of lunging Galzria as opposed to taking actual stances
Would be okay with the vig shooting galz if we in fact have a vig
Considered suggesting this, but concluded again that, N1, it would be bad. It allows scum to ignore me, which defeats the whole purpose of my claim. Scum points for you for actually suggesting it - getting a Vig to shoot me is a great deal for scum if they can pull it off.
Galz: would you have claimed Day 1 if there weren't an Innocent Child in the mix?
SK/Vig - Absolutely shouldn't shoot me.
Doctor - Absolutely shouldn't target me.
Watcher - I'm a great choice tonight.
Tracker/Cop - Use your judgement. If I'm set to die early, I don't know that wasting a night on me is worthwhile, but I won't say you shouldn't. That's your choice.
Jailkeeper - Like Doctor, probably bad. Let kills go through.
Roleblocker - Go for it. Use your judgement.
Hider - Absolutely shouldn't target me.
Voyer - I'm a good choice.
Other - Use your judgement.
SK/Vig - Absolutely shouldn't shoot me.
Doctor - Absolutely shouldn't target me.
Watcher - I'm a great choice tonight.
Tracker/Cop - Use your judgement. If I'm set to die early, I don't know that wasting a night on me is worthwhile, but I won't say you shouldn't. That's your choice.
Jailkeeper - Like Doctor, probably bad. Let kills go through.
Roleblocker - Go for it. Use your judgement.
Hider - Absolutely shouldn't target me.
Voyer - I'm a good choice.
Other - Use your judgement.
All PRs: Make your own decision. IMO.
I would shoot you tonight if I were the vig. I'm not, but if I was I would.
Galzria, if you think it's likely you enable scum, why did you claim? You just told them who NOT to kill.. Playing your normal pro-town game and hoping they'll shoot you would surely have been better?
Galz, I don't understand how lynching you is even remotely an ok idea if you think scum might want to kill you. Isn't that a huge contradiction?
Where is the advantage in giving scum this information though?Galzria, if you think it's likely you enable scum, why did you claim? You just told them who NOT to kill.. Playing your normal pro-town game and hoping they'll shoot you would surely have been better?
Because what I think is irrelevant. Ultimately I don't know. I haven't told them not to kill me. I may very well enable town. If they decide not to shoot me, that's their choice. I've given them a (possible) easy avenue to NK a town PR if they feel that's more likely. I don't, but what do I know?
Yeah, I agree! But.. why again did you claim then? :)Galz, I don't understand how lynching you is even remotely an ok idea if you think scum might want to kill you. Isn't that a huge contradiction?
It isn't. But nkirbit saying that if he were a Vig he would shoot me is exactly the same as lynching me. That was my whole point. It's idiotic. Make scum make that call. Don't do their work for them. That just gets Volt dead.
Do not support lynching Galzria. It allows scum to hide easily in the group consensus of lunging Galzria as opposed to taking actual stances
Would be okay with the vig shooting galz if we in fact have a vig
Considered suggesting this, but concluded again that, N1, it would be bad. It allows scum to ignore me, which defeats the whole purpose of my claim. Scum points for you for actually suggesting it - getting a Vig to shoot me is a great deal for scum if they can pull it off.
I agree that we shouldn't order a town vig to shoot you, like Sudgy has done below. That's bad, because scum can ignore you. The Vig should make their own choice.
We probably don't have a vig. We already have 3 PRs, and in an average normal game there are what, a quarter of the players with PRs? So it's pretty unlikely that we have a Vig if you are town.
The other thing to consider: We have two PR's claimed that don't make sense with an enabler (Bocaj, and Voltgloss). We're running out of potential town PRs for Galzria to enable if we assume that about a quarter of the players are town PRs, right?
I would shoot you tonight if I were the vig. I'm not, but if I was I would.
I ask everyone (who has not already done so) to please weigh in on whether you think lynching Galz today is a good idea. And why.no lynch on Galz. As I stated before his role seems best used for night WIFOM where scum aren't sure if he's worth a kill, will be protected, or not even worth the kill. we can potentially learn stuff based on scum's choices. I'm leaning town on Galz, so basically the question is "is it worth lynching a townie to see if they are enabling a scum power". I don't think it is, and the downside of potentially losing a townPR is equal to lynching that PR without letting them claim.
I think we can definitely analyze peopel even on that. I was mafia in that game, and I super hard looked at all those interactions trying hard to pick out who might be SK there.There's one piece your analysis leaves out, Galz:For D1, what's considered an acceptable lynch? What's historically likely? We would rather lynch scum, yes, but hitting a VT isn't terrible. It provides all sorts of wagon analysis and interactions for future days.
If you are town and we lynch you, we risk losing that wagon analysis and interactions info. Every scum who votes for you has a ready-made and unassailable reason for doing so: "I figured he was the best lynch regardless of his alignment." It's similar to my being lynched over a <i>scumslip</i> in Doctor Who mafia.
Don't agree with that. We can still analyze people giving that defense. I mean, yuma was the one harping about that last time around and he was the SK.
I am also confused by faust's reasoning regarding cobaJ's claim.And thinking about bocaJ, Paranoid Gun Owner seems a decent way to buff a SK in a setup like this.
faust: why?
I'm not sure who is buying into Voltaire's list other than Voltaire. I'm suspicious of how quickly Voltaire formed so many opinions, maybe concessions need to be made due to the size of the game, but his very early reread seemed unnecessary (some players had hardly any posts at all, what's to reread?). It felt like it was just a gimmick to give credence to his unnaturally quickly formed reads.
Ooooh, I see in #424 that faust is using that list. That's another suspicious point for faust (the vague/sheeping vote onto me being the first)
This is what I mean when I said that shraeye has found me scummy for playing the game. I get to determine when I do re-reads, not anybody else. Sometimes I've re-read threads with 10 posts! It's why I voted mail-mi with no explanation in HP right at the start, and it turned out I was right! (Even though I changed my mind later, and then back again, and again, and again...) The point is that re-reading is never a bad thing, and again, this is finding players scummy for doing pro-town things.
I have also explained very clearly where my list comes from. Yes, it's a bit different from everyone else. shraeye has to have seen those posts - this feels like him trying to get people to find me scummy for doing something different from most town players. It's potentially a clever tactic.
Voltgloss - ICHis thoughts basically amount to "He feels towny" repeated a few times with absolutely no evidence or indication of what specifically caused them to feel towny (only exceptions are Galz and Voltgloss). The combination of "I did a reread, I did a reread" and then a very wordy post that is basically just a listing of gut-feelings seems like it was done more for the sake of appearances than for anything else.
TA - posting lots, if scum will leave clues
Galzria - the claim has bought him the day, basically. Still trying to sort through this though.
Voltaire - me!
mcmc - has given me strong town vibes
sudgy - posting lots, if scum will leave clues
Walrus - has given me strong town vibes
AHoppy - has given me strong town vibes
Archetype - has given me strong town vibes
faust - posting lots, if scum will leave clues AND has given me a town vibe
liopoil - posting lots, if scum will leave clues ALTHOUGH has given me a scum vibe
It felt like it was just a gimmick to give credence to his unnaturally quickly formed reads.
We are just on a slippery slope to Day 1 massclaim here, for absolutely no good reason. And nkirbit is really encouraging it.
I actually think sudgy is sort of a naive player (no offense), and I could see him just insiting that the vig should shoot Galz.
What nkirbit is doing is subtly pushing more and more info to be out there, this is manifestly bad, and he has that semi-slip going against him. My preferred lynch by a long shot at this point.
I don't see why big shooting Galz is that bad tonight. We could wait, then if scum doesn't kill him have the possible vig shoot Galz.If Galz is still alive tomorrow, we should discuss this topic again, I agree with that. But I want to wait to see how scum reacts to Galz' claim.
We are just on a slippery slope to Day 1 massclaim here, for absolutely no good reason. And nkirbit is really encouraging it.
I actually think sudgy is sort of a naive player (no offense), and I could see him just insiting that the vig should shoot Galz.
What nkirbit is doing is subtly pushing more and more info to be out there, this is manifestly bad, and he has that semi-slip going against him. My preferred lynch by a long shot at this point.
I don't give a fuck if people claim or not. They can do what they want.
Where is the advantage in giving scum this information though?Galzria, if you think it's likely you enable scum, why did you claim? You just told them who NOT to kill.. Playing your normal pro-town game and hoping they'll shoot you would surely have been better?
Because what I think is irrelevant. Ultimately I don't know. I haven't told them not to kill me. I may very well enable town. If they decide not to shoot me, that's their choice. I've given them a (possible) easy avenue to NK a town PR if they feel that's more likely. I don't, but what do I know?
We are just on a slippery slope to Day 1 massclaim here, for absolutely no good reason. And nkirbit is really encouraging it.
I actually think sudgy is sort of a naive player (no offense), and I could see him just insiting that the vig should shoot Galz.
What nkirbit is doing is subtly pushing more and more info to be out there, this is manifestly bad, and he has that semi-slip going against him. My preferred lynch by a long shot at this point.
I don't give a fuck if people claim or not. They can do what they want.
So, you don't care if town wins or not? Vote: nkirbit
This is a closed setup. The mods have worked hard to make this game as fun and balanced as possible. There are no bastard elements, nor would we consider the setup Role Madness.
Where is the advantage in giving scum this information though?Galzria, if you think it's likely you enable scum, why did you claim? You just told them who NOT to kill.. Playing your normal pro-town game and hoping they'll shoot you would surely have been better?
Because what I think is irrelevant. Ultimately I don't know. I haven't told them not to kill me. I may very well enable town. If they decide not to shoot me, that's their choice. I've given them a (possible) easy avenue to NK a town PR if they feel that's more likely. I don't, but what do I know?
Which piece? My feelings on what I enable, or the role as a whole?
Laying this out will do more harm than good. FoS you for making me state this publicly:
The advantage is that, let's say I enable Cops. Obviously I don't want to die. Scum want me dead though. If I play a straight pro-town game, as you suggest, I get dead quick. So I think to myself, how could I make scum not want me dead, but also be true for town? If I claim to enable scum, town should want me dead over any other townie in the game. I'm a better kill than even a VT. But scum will want me alive. If I state I enable town, or state nothing, scum will kill me sooner rather than later (likely). What if I claim that I don't know? That I lean towards scum? Maybe I can convince scum not to kill me by making it sound like it would be bad for them. But town won't want me dead either since if I enable town, well...
The advantage is that scum don't know. I'm either an easy town PR to pick off, or I'm a terrible kill choice for scum at night (nothing like hitting a VT and losing your Roleblocking power!)
The advantage is, if scum kill me, scum isn't killing Voltgloss.
The advantage is that it's a win/win/win/lose no matter what happens at night, as long as town doesn't play stupid (Vig shooting me N1 - hell, they shouldn't shoot anybody N1. That's basic common sense). If scum kill me and I enable a town PR, then that sucks. But Volt still lives. If scum kill me and I enable scum, that's great. And Volt still lives. If scum kill Volt and I enable town, that's ok. Means our PR works. If scum kill Volt and I enable scum, that sucks. But that's a risk they would have to take based on not knowing what I enable.
The advantage is that it gives scum a reason to want me dead - and a damn good one. Town dying is NOT anti-town. Even in regular games, weird roles aside. Town dying happens, plain and simple. Who, when and how make a huge impact on the game. Maximizing what we gain from it is up to us. I've read my Role PM. I know what it states I do. I've full confidence in the way that I've played. Mcmc claims I'm a smart player. So did you, Eevee. I don't question the choices I've made because I've got full information. I know what my PM actually says. I know if I've disclosed everything or if I have not. You don't, mcmc doesn't, nkirbit doesn't, Robz doesn't, Volt doesn't. Scum doesn't. But I do. And I don't question my choices at all.
I actually don't, no. I'm increasingly frustrated by having been duped into signing up for an RMM game when that's not what I wanted.
I actually don't, no. I'm increasingly frustrated by having been duped into signing up for an RMM game when that's not what I wanted.
nkirbit, why do you think the game is Role Madness?
We are just on a slippery slope to Day 1 massclaim here, for absolutely no good reason. And nkirbit is really encouraging it.
I actually think sudgy is sort of a naive player (no offense), and I could see him just insiting that the vig should shoot Galz.
What nkirbit is doing is subtly pushing more and more info to be out there, this is manifestly bad, and he has that semi-slip going against him. My preferred lynch by a long shot at this point.
I don't give a fuck if people claim or not. They can do what they want.
So, you don't care if town wins or not? Vote: nkirbit
We are just on a slippery slope to Day 1 massclaim here, for absolutely no good reason. And nkirbit is really encouraging it.
I actually think sudgy is sort of a naive player (no offense), and I could see him just insiting that the vig should shoot Galz.
What nkirbit is doing is subtly pushing more and more info to be out there, this is manifestly bad, and he has that semi-slip going against him. My preferred lynch by a long shot at this point.
I don't give a fuck if people claim or not. They can do what they want.
So, you don't care if town wins or not? Vote: nkirbit
Can you explain to me why this is worth a vote? Both scum and town care whether town wins or not. So this has nothing to do at all with my alignment... but you've used it as a reason to vote for me. Why? Just looking for an excuse to jump on the wagon?
We are just on a slippery slope to Day 1 massclaim here, for absolutely no good reason. And nkirbit is really encouraging it.
I actually think sudgy is sort of a naive player (no offense), and I could see him just insiting that the vig should shoot Galz.
What nkirbit is doing is subtly pushing more and more info to be out there, this is manifestly bad, and he has that semi-slip going against him. My preferred lynch by a long shot at this point.
I don't give a fuck if people claim or not. They can do what they want.
So, you don't care if town wins or not? Vote: nkirbit
Can you explain to me why this is worth a vote? Both scum and town care whether town wins or not. So this has nothing to do at all with my alignment... but you've used it as a reason to vote for me. Why? Just looking for an excuse to jump on the wagon?
We are just on a slippery slope to Day 1 massclaim here, for absolutely no good reason. And nkirbit is really encouraging it.
I actually think sudgy is sort of a naive player (no offense), and I could see him just insiting that the vig should shoot Galz.
What nkirbit is doing is subtly pushing more and more info to be out there, this is manifestly bad, and he has that semi-slip going against him. My preferred lynch by a long shot at this point.
I don't give a fuck if people claim or not. They can do what they want.
So, you don't care if town wins or not? Vote: nkirbit
Can you explain to me why this is worth a vote? Both scum and town care whether town wins or not. So this has nothing to do at all with my alignment... but you've used it as a reason to vote for me. Why? Just looking for an excuse to jump on the wagon?
It more meant, "You don't want to have town win."
We are just on a slippery slope to Day 1 massclaim here, for absolutely no good reason. And nkirbit is really encouraging it.
I actually think sudgy is sort of a naive player (no offense), and I could see him just insiting that the vig should shoot Galz.
What nkirbit is doing is subtly pushing more and more info to be out there, this is manifestly bad, and he has that semi-slip going against him. My preferred lynch by a long shot at this point.
I don't give a fuck if people claim or not. They can do what they want.
So, you don't care if town wins or not? Vote: nkirbit
Can you explain to me why this is worth a vote? Both scum and town care whether town wins or not. So this has nothing to do at all with my alignment... but you've used it as a reason to vote for me. Why? Just looking for an excuse to jump on the wagon?
I do think you are legitimiately frustrated. That leans you toward scum here.
I actually don't, no. I'm increasingly frustrated by having been duped into signing up for an RMM game when that's not what I wanted.I take from this complaint that nkirbit also has a power role himself. Might be a scum PR, might be a town PR. Something to take into consideration.
I am also confused by faust's reasoning regarding cobaJ's claim.And thinking about bocaJ, Paranoid Gun Owner seems a decent way to buff a SK in a setup like this.
faust: why?
I actually don't, no. I'm increasingly frustrated by having been duped into signing up for an RMM game when that's not what I wanted.I take from this complaint that nkirbit also has a power role himself. Might be a scum PR, might be a town PR. Something to take into consideration.
I actually don't, no. I'm increasingly frustrated by having been duped into signing up for an RMM game when that's not what I wanted.I take from this complaint that nkirbit also has a power role himself. Might be a scum PR, might be a town PR. Something to take into consideration.
His thoughts basically amount to "He feels towny" repeated a few times with absolutely no evidence or indication of what specifically caused them to feel towny (only exceptions are Galz and Voltgloss). The combination of "I did a reread, I did a reread" and then a very wordy post that is basically just a listing of gut-feelings seems like it was done more for the sake of appearances than for anything else.
Why would you say this?... upon further inspection, it may have been better to not say that. Ugh. I guess I was a little excited about the fact that we might lynch a scum PR (because I still find you scummy).
I can see why you think that. But not why you said that.
Intent to vote nkirbit pending a count.
His play is becoming reckless, it's day one of a HUGE game, that's reason enough. Though I'm not forgetting galz here and would still be happy with his lynch.
The AHoppy vote is strange to me. I know the case between Shraeye:Voltaire. I know the case between liopoil:Dsell. I've very little recollection of AHoppy:Walrus. Maybe it's my fault for not watching super closely. Certainly I haven't done a reread yet (no time 'till Saturday). But nothing stood out about either Walrus, or AHoppy's reason to vote. That makes me feel like it's a vote "just because" - it's there to be there, but also not cause waves or draw attention.
It's a very old vote as far as I know. I assume AHoppy will either move it elsewhere or provide an updated case.
Yes, it's reckless. Which makes absolutely zero sense coming from scum. Hes not going to put himself in this position as scum I believe.
Fos to everyone voting nkirbit. Scum does not make mistakes like this d1. This smells like people looking for a mislynch to pin on someone. Nkirbit provided the opportunity with his frustration, and people have been lining up to vote him without considering how likely it is that this behavior actually comes from scum. To me, it's not very.
I will look at specific reactions next time I'm on a computer
Intent to vote nkirbit pending a count.
His play is becoming reckless, it's day one of a HUGE game, that's reason enough. Though I'm not forgetting galz here and would still be happy with his lynch.
Yes, it's reckless. Which makes absolutely zero sense coming from scum. Hes not going to put himself in this position as scum I believe.
Fos to everyone voting nkirbit. Scum does not make mistakes like this d1. This smells like people looking for a mislynch to pin on someone. Nkirbit provided the opportunity with his frustration, and people have been lining up to vote him without considering how likely it is that this behavior actually comes from scum. To me, it's not very.
I will look at specific reactions next time I'm on a computer
We have had some games recently where frustrated players are town players. Nkirbit mentioned himself in clue, proving he is aware of this.
I think he means WWTWDP.We have had some games recently where frustrated players are town players. Nkirbit mentioned himself in clue, proving he is aware of this.
I don't understand this comment.
I think he means WWTWDP.We have had some games recently where frustrated players are town players. Nkirbit mentioned himself in clue, proving he is aware of this.
I don't understand this comment.
I think he means WWTWDP.We have had some games recently where frustrated players are town players. Nkirbit mentioned himself in clue, proving he is aware of this.
I don't understand this comment.
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9010.0 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9010.0)I think he means WWTWDP.We have had some games recently where frustrated players are town players. Nkirbit mentioned himself in clue, proving he is aware of this.
I don't understand this comment.
WWTWDP?
You were in that one! Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey Dinner Party!I think he means WWTWDP.We have had some games recently where frustrated players are town players. Nkirbit mentioned himself in clue, proving he is aware of this.
I don't understand this comment.
WWTWDP?
But this aside, enough of the latest interaction seems scummy: the "scumslip" (which doesn't necessarily mean he's scum, but feels strange) and him not caring about claims. And at the very least, a player who states that he's not caring about whether he wins isn't much use to us even if he is town.
We have had some games recently where frustrated players are town players. Nkirbit mentioned himself in clue, proving he is aware of this.
I don't understand this comment.
Look, the next person who either claims a PR (except at L-1) or says "so and so may or may not have a PR for this or that reason" earns a policy vote.100% agree.
Regarding the nkirbit wagon: yeah I'm actually cool with this. I could understand that it might be unwise for scum to get frustrated or make mistakes, but nkirbit's indignance has a different ring to it to me than, say, shraeye's, who was able to convince me earlier. Not as if my reads are pretty strong on anybody right now but someone's gotta be the choice. You might say that I'm just opportunistically jumping on the lynch, but this was my honest read, and clearly some others got the same impression. Plus, it were best that we lynched somebody tonight (right? maybe?) and it looks like this might be the only viable wagon there is.This struck me as odd. Especially the bolded part.
Alright, here.Look, the next person who either claims a PR (except at L-1) or says "so and so may or may not have a PR for this or that reason" earns a policy vote.100% agree.
I'm frustrated at both bocaj and nkirbit for this exact reason. Particularity bocaj because while it makes him more likely Town, his power becomes ineffective. Which really sucks since PGO is one of the quickest way to eliminate scum (and town, I guess. But it's worth the trade off IMO).
nkirbit for pushing claiming.
I do think both are town from this though. I think that what they did was anti-town, but still most likely town.
Vote: WalrusMcFishSr
Regarding the nkirbit wagon: yeah I'm actually cool with this. I could understand that it might be unwise for scum to get frustrated or make mistakes, but nkirbit's indignance has a different ring to it to me than, say, shraeye's, who was able to convince me earlier. Not as if my reads are pretty strong on anybody right now but someone's gotta be the choice. You might say that I'm just opportunistically jumping on the lynch, but this was my honest read, and clearly some others got the same impression. Plus, it were best that we lynched somebody tonight (right? maybe?) and it looks like this might be the only viable wagon there is.This struck me as odd. Especially the bolded part.
It is the correct move to lynch someone D1 (especially in a non RMM game). What I found weird was how you worded it and said that nkirbit is the only available lynch when he really isn't.Alright, here.Look, the next person who either claims a PR (except at L-1) or says "so and so may or may not have a PR for this or that reason" earns a policy vote.100% agree.
I'm frustrated at both bocaj and nkirbit for this exact reason. Particularity bocaj because while it makes him more likely Town, his power becomes ineffective. Which really sucks since PGO is one of the quickest way to eliminate scum (and town, I guess. But it's worth the trade off IMO).
nkirbit for pushing claiming.
I do think both are town from this though. I think that what they did was anti-town, but still most likely town.
Vote: WalrusMcFishSr
Regarding the nkirbit wagon: yeah I'm actually cool with this. I could understand that it might be unwise for scum to get frustrated or make mistakes, but nkirbit's indignance has a different ring to it to me than, say, shraeye's, who was able to convince me earlier. Not as if my reads are pretty strong on anybody right now but someone's gotta be the choice. You might say that I'm just opportunistically jumping on the lynch, but this was my honest read, and clearly some others got the same impression. Plus, it were best that we lynched somebody tonight (right? maybe?) and it looks like this might be the only viable wagon there is.This struck me as odd. Especially the bolded part.
Hmmm. It was my understanding that it's usually best for town to lynch somebody, rather than just wait around? This was the impression I gathered when reading through a couple of the other Mafia threads. If the actual strategy is in fact more dependent on the situation, well then, I guess I'd like to know about it? Why wouldn't the town want to lynch someone tonight?
Excuse my noobishness as usual. Either way my suspicions still stand and I still feel comfortable with my vote.
At no point did I do anything that suggested any other player should claim anything. Everyone saying that I did so should go back and look for evidence rather than accept the groupthink that I did so.I have, and that's where I drew my conclusion. I don't follow the groupthink of you being obvscum for doing it, but I do think you were revealing a bit too much which I find anti-town.
It is the correct move to lynch someone D1 (especially in a non RMM game). What I found weird was how you worded it and said that nkirbit is the only available lynch when he really isn't.
It is the correct move to lynch someone D1 (especially in a non RMM game). What I found weird was how you worded it and said that nkirbit is the only available lynch when he really isn't.Alright, here.Look, the next person who either claims a PR (except at L-1) or says "so and so may or may not have a PR for this or that reason" earns a policy vote.100% agree.
I'm frustrated at both bocaj and nkirbit for this exact reason. Particularity bocaj because while it makes him more likely Town, his power becomes ineffective. Which really sucks since PGO is one of the quickest way to eliminate scum (and town, I guess. But it's worth the trade off IMO).
nkirbit for pushing claiming.
I do think both are town from this though. I think that what they did was anti-town, but still most likely town.
Vote: WalrusMcFishSr
Regarding the nkirbit wagon: yeah I'm actually cool with this. I could understand that it might be unwise for scum to get frustrated or make mistakes, but nkirbit's indignance has a different ring to it to me than, say, shraeye's, who was able to convince me earlier. Not as if my reads are pretty strong on anybody right now but someone's gotta be the choice. You might say that I'm just opportunistically jumping on the lynch, but this was my honest read, and clearly some others got the same impression. Plus, it were best that we lynched somebody tonight (right? maybe?) and it looks like this might be the only viable wagon there is.This struck me as odd. Especially the bolded part.
Hmmm. It was my understanding that it's usually best for town to lynch somebody, rather than just wait around? This was the impression I gathered when reading through a couple of the other Mafia threads. If the actual strategy is in fact more dependent on the situation, well then, I guess I'd like to know about it? Why wouldn't the town want to lynch someone tonight?
Excuse my noobishness as usual. Either way my suspicions still stand and I still feel comfortable with my vote.
Vote count 1.15 has Walrus listed twice.
I actually don't, no. I'm increasingly frustrated by having been duped into signing up for an RMM game when that's not what I wanted.I take from this complaint that nkirbit also has a power role himself. Might be a scum PR, might be a town PR. Something to take into consideration.
I just haven't seen anything in Nkirbit's behavior that says "scum" rather than "anti-town". The points people have made aren't compelling, and seem to me like they're trying to get anti-town behavior painted as scummy. Nkirbit is an extremely easy mislynch, and that's what's happening now. Scum are on his wagon without a doubt, hoping this goes through.
I actually don't, no. I'm increasingly frustrated by having been duped into signing up for an RMM game when that's not what I wanted.I take from this complaint that nkirbit also has a power role himself. Might be a scum PR, might be a town PR. Something to take into consideration.
Vote: Faust
I am not voting because of the rolefishing. I am voting because you are seriously still voting for someone you think has a decent chance of being a town PR.
TA, why are you not listing nkirbit's possible scumslip?
TA is making a lot of sense in this game. Although the faust vote seems to be for doing the very thing he is scolding the nkirbit voters about - voting for antitown behavior rather than scummy behavior.
I just haven't seen anything in Nkirbit's behavior that says "scum" rather than "anti-town". The points people have made aren't compelling, and seem to me like they're trying to get anti-town behavior painted as scummy. Nkirbit is an extremely easy mislynch, and that's what's happening now. Scum are on his wagon without a doubt, hoping this goes through.
And who do you think that is?I actually don't, no. I'm increasingly frustrated by having been duped into signing up for an RMM game when that's not what I wanted.I take from this complaint that nkirbit also has a power role himself. Might be a scum PR, might be a town PR. Something to take into consideration.
Vote: Faust
I am not voting because of the rolefishing. I am voting because you are seriously still voting for someone you think has a decent chance of being a town PR.
NO. YOU VOTING FOR HIM IS INSANE. Why are you casting a "pressure" vote right now?
Faust is saying that there's a decent chance that Nkirbit is a town PR, in his eyes.
Yet, he's cool with Nkirbit chilling at 8 votes.
This, to me, seems like Faust is okay lynching someone who is a town PR. In other words, he's scum.
My vote is not a "pressure" vote. I think that Faust's vote is scummy. Once again, he is okay lynching someone he thinks is a town power role!!!!
Voltgloss, you may need to steer us a bit in our lynch pool like Galz did in HP (by taking candidates off the table). I don't see anything happening to get us to focus otherwise. I'm viewed as too scummy for anyone to take my lynch pools seriously.
Voltgloss, you may need to steer us a bit in our lynch pool like Galz did in HP (by taking candidates off the table). I don't see anything happening to get us to focus otherwise. I'm viewed as too scummy for anyone to take my lynch pools seriously.
I've been working on my thoughts throughout the day and I will give them in due time. That time's not yet, but it's soon.
Also: self-pity grinds my gears. Especially when you're not the guy with 8 votes on him.
Also also: for the love of redacted stop suggesting that I "steer" things.
Being willing to lynch someone you think is a town PR is not only incredibly anti-town, but also incredibly scummy.
Vote: FaustWith at least two town PRs already outed, I believe he's much more likely to be a scum PR. Or just scum trying to make us believe he's a PR.
I am not voting because of the rolefishing. I am voting because you are seriously still voting for someone you think has a decent chance of being a town PR.
Well that may be, but it's definitely a facet of the nkirbit case, so why leaving it out when you list them?TA, why are you not listing nkirbit's possible scumslip?
Because I don't think it's a scumslip.
Voltgloss, you may need to steer us a bit in our lynch pool like Galz did in HP (by taking candidates off the table). I don't see anything happening to get us to focus otherwise. I'm viewed as too scummy for anyone to take my lynch pools seriously.
I've been working on my thoughts throughout the day and I will give them in due time. That time's not yet, but it's soon.
Also: self-pity grinds my gears. Especially when you're not the guy with 8 votes on him.
Also also: for the love of redacted stop suggesting that I "steer" things.
Sorry for suggesting a strategy I've seen work for town in the past.
Is there a game or game(s) in particular that you have in mind where an IC steering things on Day 1 has worked out well for town? (I'm not being facetious. If there is, I'd like to know about it. I was gone for a while and so there could certainly be just such a case.)
Well that may be, but it's definitely a facet of the nkirbit case, so why leaving it out when you list them?You're also ignoring the proposal to vig Galz, as I just noticed. To me it seems you only pick out the weaker arguments against nkirbit and ignore the stronger ones.
Voltgloss, you may need to steer us a bit in our lynch pool like Galz did in HP (by taking candidates off the table). I don't see anything happening to get us to focus otherwise. I'm viewed as too scummy for anyone to take my lynch pools seriously.
I've been working on my thoughts throughout the day and I will give them in due time. That time's not yet, but it's soon.
Also: self-pity grinds my gears. Especially when you're not the guy with 8 votes on him.
Also also: for the love of redacted stop suggesting that I "steer" things.
Sorry for suggesting a strategy I've seen work for town in the past.
Is there a game or game(s) in particular that you have in mind where an IC steering things on Day 1 has worked out well for town? (I'm not being facetious. If there is, I'd like to know about it. I was gone for a while and so there could certainly be just such a case.)
There was that blitz game Insomniac ran, where we changed targets at the last minute b/c of the IC, and got scum. I think TA was IC then?
As for recent success... not in the past few months, really. There's one blitz game, but that's a different enough format that it doesn't apply here. Although I don't think there's been a regular game with an IC since mean girls, so not that much data in the very recent past.
Well that may be, but it's definitely a facet of the nkirbit case, so why leaving it out when you list them?You're also ignoring the proposal to vig Galz, as I just noticed. To me it seems you only pick out the weaker arguments against nkirbit and ignore the stronger ones.
Well that may be, but it's definitely a facet of the nkirbit case, so why leaving it out when you list them?You're also ignoring the proposal to vig Galz, as I just noticed. To me it seems you only pick out the weaker arguments against nkirbit and ignore the stronger ones.
I left it out because it seemed pretty ridiculous to me, but now that I'm going back and looking at the votes, given that 5 people voted him for it, it's pretty significant. It just seemed ridiculously silly to me.
Serious question: Out of the 5 people who voted Nkirbit specifically for the scumslip (Mail-mi, Chairs, Xeiron, EFHW, bocaJ, and throw Faust in there too), how many of you have ever watched community? From what I've seen, people who have seen the show have understood Nkirbit's line of reasoning, so I'm curious if your difference in opinion on the slip comes from not having seen the show and immediately hearing study group and thinking of Jeff, Britta, Abed, etc., instead of the town-alignment study group.
Suggestion to Vig Galz I skimmed over and didn't catch until after the post, but once again, it's an anti-town action that you have tried to paint as scummy. It's Nkirbit's opinion on his belief of Galz' role. It's not an unreasonable one, either. Hell, in fact, it's a very reasonable one, given that there's a very good chance Galz is either scum himself, or his death hurts scum. Why is he scummy for debating vigging Galz, when we've debated lynching Galz out in the open?
Well that may be, but it's definitely a facet of the nkirbit case, so why leaving it out when you list them?You're also ignoring the proposal to vig Galz, as I just noticed. To me it seems you only pick out the weaker arguments against nkirbit and ignore the stronger ones.
I left it out because it seemed pretty ridiculous to me, but now that I'm going back and looking at the votes, given that 5 people voted him for it, it's pretty significant. It just seemed ridiculously silly to me.
Serious question: Out of the 5 people who voted Nkirbit specifically for the scumslip (Mail-mi, Chairs, Xeiron, EFHW, bocaJ, and throw Faust in there too), how many of you have ever watched community? From what I've seen, people who have seen the show have understood Nkirbit's line of reasoning, so I'm curious if your difference in opinion on the slip comes from not having seen the show and immediately hearing study group and thinking of Jeff, Britta, Abed, etc., instead of the town-alignment study group.
Suggestion to Vig Galz I skimmed over and didn't catch until after the post, but once again, it's an anti-town action that you have tried to paint as scummy. It's Nkirbit's opinion on his belief of Galz' role. It's not an unreasonable one, either. Hell, in fact, it's a very reasonable one, given that there's a very good chance Galz is either scum himself, or his death hurts scum. Why is he scummy for debating vigging Galz, when we've debated lynching Galz out in the open?
What i don't understand is how he can read a town pm including the line "you win when all threats to the study group are eliminated"
General Gameplay and Etiquette:
1. You may not quote private Moderator-supplied information (either real or fabricated) of any kind. Paraphrasing (for role claims, etc.) is acceptable.
...another PR.
But shoot. This sucks hardcore. Both for us and him. I don't understand what 'force-claim' could entail, but he was still a Cop.
Are we allowed to analyze nkirbit's alignment based on this decision?
Are we allowed to analyze nkirbit's alignment based on this decision?
Are we allowed to analyze nkirbit's alignment based on this decision?
You mean... the mods' decision to nightkill xeiron? I don't see how their decision gives us anything on nkirbit's alignment. xeiron broke the rules. It sucks for us, but the rules need to be enforced.
I'm confirmed Town, and I approve this mod ruling.
What the heck is a forced-claim cop? Wiki.mafiascum is down right now, so I can't figure it out, but man that sucks losing Xeiron like that.
What the heck is a forced-claim cop? Wiki.mafiascum is down right now, so I can't figure it out, but man that sucks losing Xeiron like that.
I've never seen "forced-claim" anything on the wiki, so I think that's a yumersky original.
My guess is that's its along the lines of what Voltaire said.What the heck is a forced-claim cop? Wiki.mafiascum is down right now, so I can't figure it out, but man that sucks losing Xeiron like that.
I've never seen "forced-claim" anything on the wiki, so I think that's a yumersky original.
Frustrating that we don't know someone's flip in a regular mafia game, but I guess it's irrelevant at this point.
I wasn't implying it was nkirbit's fault at all! I was thinking if the mods would be likelier to take a harsh measure like that if the victim would be proven town or scum.
I wasn't implying it was nkirbit's fault at all! I was thinking if the mods would be likelier to take a harsh measure like that if the victim would be proven town or scum.
Completely the same, rules are rules.
I don't think it's black and white. No violation would be punished with a modkill if there were no victims.I wasn't implying it was nkirbit's fault at all! I was thinking if the mods would be likelier to take a harsh measure like that if the victim would be proven town or scum.
Completely the same, rules are rules.
I don't think it's black and white. No violation would be punished with a modkill if there were no victims.I wasn't implying it was nkirbit's fault at all! I was thinking if the mods would be likelier to take a harsh measure like that if the victim would be proven town or scum.
Completely the same, rules are rules.
I'm personally wondering if ashersky would modkill xeiron if he were scum. I think not.I don't think it's black and white. No violation would be punished with a modkill if there were no victims.I wasn't implying it was nkirbit's fault at all! I was thinking if the mods would be likelier to take a harsh measure like that if the victim would be proven town or scum.
Completely the same, rules are rules.
The victim of breaking the rules is the game.
I'm personally wondering if ashersky would modkill xeiron if he were scum. I think not.I don't think it's black and white. No violation would be punished with a modkill if there were no victims.I wasn't implying it was nkirbit's fault at all! I was thinking if the mods would be likelier to take a harsh measure like that if the victim would be proven town or scum.
Completely the same, rules are rules.
The victim of breaking the rules is the game.
Well I don't know. I think it is.I'm personally wondering if ashersky would modkill xeiron if he were scum. I think not.I don't think it's black and white. No violation would be punished with a modkill if there were no victims.I wasn't implying it was nkirbit's fault at all! I was thinking if the mods would be likelier to take a harsh measure like that if the victim would be proven town or scum.
Completely the same, rules are rules.
The victim of breaking the rules is the game.
Technically, he would not have been quoting his PM if that were the case. But I don't think speculation on this is remotely helpful.
Nkirbit said he doesn't care about winning, and that's definitely anti-town.
Nkirbit said he doesn't care about winning, and that's definitely anti-town.
That is definitely not anti town. You know who else wants to win? Mafia!
Lynching anti-town is an excuse that's easy to hide behind, anyway.
Also, I think lynching anti-town is the best lynch for today. I don't care what you say.
I left it out because it seemed pretty ridiculous to me, but now that I'm going back and looking at the votes, given that 5 people voted him for it, it's pretty significant. It just seemed ridiculously silly to me.
Serious question: Out of the 5 people who voted Nkirbit specifically for the scumslip (Mail-mi, Chairs, Xeiron, EFHW, bocaJ, and throw Faust in there too), how many of you have ever watched community? From what I've seen, people who have seen the show have understood Nkirbit's line of reasoning, so I'm curious if your difference in opinion on the slip comes from not having seen the show and immediately hearing study group and thinking of Jeff, Britta, Abed, etc., instead of the town-alignment study group.
Suggestion to Vig Galz I skimmed over and didn't catch until after the post, but once again, it's an anti-town action that you have tried to paint as scummy. It's Nkirbit's opinion on his belief of Galz' role. It's not an unreasonable one, either. Hell, in fact, it's a very reasonable one, given that there's a very good chance Galz is either scum himself, or his death hurts scum. Why is he scummy for debating vigging Galz, when we've debated lynching Galz out in the open?
I agree with Voltgloss. He should not steer things. An IC steering thing takes away decisions from players, and decisions are how we analyze who's scum. Saying "tell me who I should consider voting for!" not only lowers the odds but also causes scum players to disguise their votes more easily.His second time suggesting that people just wait for Voltgloss to steer us. It's a perfect cover for scum who aren't sure which direction to go and want some built-in excuses for whatever way they go. Suggestions like these make me surer of my vote on Voltaire. I think other people need to give him a serious look.
Yeah, frustration can read as town, and it can read as scum. And sometimes we get that judgement wrong. But it's even more wrong to go "oh, he's frustrated. only town gets frustrated".We have had some games recently where frustrated players are town players. Nkirbit mentioned himself in clue, proving he is aware of this.
I don't understand this comment.
Clearest in my mind is day two of mean girls, where both mcmcsalot and ashersky had frustration outlets after conflicting claims. Both seemed townier because of their frustration, and the rest of the town discussed if not both could be town involving obscure bus driver theories, even though their claims clearly proved one had to be scum. In the end we lynched mcmc. Ashersky was scum.
I remember seing other games where a player has showed clear frustration in-thread, and that has been taken as a town sign. But i have no more exemples on the top of my head.
I have not fully read dinner party, but it could be a case there as well.
Finally on a computer, this will be much easier.More regarding hte frustration; I find fake-frustration highly scummy, but genuine frustration really can split both ways. Very often when being suspected scum can get equally as frustrated as town can. So when I see genuine frustration, it's hard to say "mafia wouldn't act that way." I frequently posted frustrated posts in Innovation, and even though they were pretty genuine frustration, it still was an emotion I was harnessing to manipulate people.
Faust, the WIFOM comment wasn't directed specifically at you, I think it was Xeiron who brought it up.
From my point of view, there's 3 facets of the Nkirbit case that I've seen cited.
1) He's frustrated.
Yes, he's frustrated. That's pretty clear. But so what? Frustrated!=scummy. Frustrated=frustrated. As Xeiron pointed out, we've seen frustrated scum, and we've seen frustrated town (Ash vs. Mcmc is Mean Girls). To me, the frustration is very obviously genuine. Now, this doesn't mean he's town, but this doesn't mean that he's scum, either. I DO believe that it's more likely from town, and scum has much less incentive to act this way. There's a chance it's WIFOM from scum!Nkirbit, but I really doubt it.
2) He doesn't care about the game.
Even though he's said this, once again, it doesn't speak to his alignment. It could be town, or could be scum. I can't tell. I don't know how anyone else can. Once again, I get the same reaction from points #1 and points #2. Even if he does care less, it shouldn't matter -- we want to lynch scum, not lynch town who care less. And I think his being in this game has caused opinions, which is very useful.
3) He's pushing claiming.
From what I scanned, he claimed anti-vig, and then questioned something else, and has pushed Galz for info, right? I think nkirbit "pushing claiming" is an exaggeration, though. Regardless, even if he is, it's anti-town, not scummy.
Now, I get a mostly null read on Nkirbit from his behavior. If he hadn't gotten any votes, I would lean town, but it would be pretty close to null. However, he's now got 8 votes. To me, this gives me a huge town read on Nkirbit. The case on Nkirbit, boiled down, is that he's acting anti-town. Whatever, it has some merit. But, importantly, anti-town is not scummy!
Nkirbit's behavior, from a scum perspective, is an easy case to push. It's very, very easy to paint anti-town behavior in a scummy light, especially on D1. Scum can just wait back and pounce on someone who makes themselves an easy target, which I believe exactly what is currently happening. It's a bogus mislynch case that's easy to push, and the fact that so many people have jumped on it convinces me that there's scum on board.
I just haven't seen anything in Nkirbit's behavior that says "scum" rather than "anti-town". The points people have made aren't compelling, and seem to me like they're trying to get anti-town behavior painted as scummy. Nkirbit is an extremely easy mislynch, and that's what's happening now. Scum are on his wagon without a doubt, hoping this goes through.
Suggestion to Vig Galz I skimmed over and didn't catch until after the post, but once again, it's an anti-town action that you have tried to paint as scummy. It's Nkirbit's opinion on his belief of Galz' role. It's not an unreasonable one, either. Hell, in fact, it's a very reasonable one, given that there's a very good chance Galz is either scum himself, or his death hurts scum. Why is he scummy for debating vigging Galz, when we've debated lynching Galz out in the open?I would certainly say that pressuring people to vig Galz is both anti-town and scummy. At this post I get more concerned that I'm not understanding your breakdown between anti-town and scummy.
Also, TA, I'd really like to hear your definition of "anti-town" vs. "scummy". Why is nkirbit's vigging suggestion only "anti-town", but my vote for him "scummy"?
I agree with Voltgloss. He should not steer things. An IC steering thing takes away decisions from players, and decisions are how we analyze who's scum. Saying "tell me who I should consider voting for!" not only lowers the odds but also causes scum players to disguise their votes more easily.His second time suggesting that people just wait for Voltgloss to steer us. It's a perfect cover for scum who aren't sure which direction to go and want some built-in excuses for whatever way they go. Suggestions like these make me surer of my vote on Voltaire. I think other people need to give him a serious look.
My vote for nkirbit: His explanation for his slip was inadequate. How had he "not noticed" it when it was exceedingly obvious in chairs', xeiron's, and my PM that town=study group?
Of course this is possible. Noone here is suggesting that nkirbit has to be 100% obvscum for what happened. It's all about likelihood. Say likelihoods are distributed like this (arbitrary numbers ahead!):My vote for nkirbit: His explanation for his slip was inadequate. How had he "not noticed" it when it was exceedingly obvious in chairs', xeiron's, and my PM that town=study group?
Say he's town and a vt. You don't think it's possible that he opened his pm, looked at his role, saw that he was a vt and closed the pm without looking at anything else? Same thing if he's a pr or whatever.
Also, his vig talk and his semi-pushing claiming. I also just have a scummy feel that i can't put a finger on. Sorry i didn't include this last post, i was on mobile and just explaining my vote from the slip.My vote for nkirbit: His explanation for his slip was inadequate. How had he "not noticed" it when it was exceedingly obvious in chairs', xeiron's, and my PM that town=study group?
Say he's town and a vt. You don't think it's possible that he opened his pm, looked at his role, saw that he was a vt and closed the pm without looking at anything else? Same thing if he's a pr or whatever.
Now it's certainly possible that that's not want happened, but to me it's a definite possibility. The fact that people keep choosing to paint decisions in a scummy light when to me could go either way is what makes me think this is a mislynch.
Also, his vig talk and his semi-pushing claiming. I also just have a scummy feel that i can't put a finger on. Sorry i didn't include this last post, i was on mobile and just explaining my vote from the slip.My vote for nkirbit: His explanation for his slip was inadequate. How had he "not noticed" it when it was exceedingly obvious in chairs', xeiron's, and my PM that town=study group?
Say he's town and a vt. You don't think it's possible that he opened his pm, looked at his role, saw that he was a vt and closed the pm without looking at anything else? Same thing if he's a pr or whatever.
Now it's certainly possible that that's not want happened, but to me it's a definite possibility. The fact that people keep choosing to paint decisions in a scummy light when to me could go either way is what makes me think this is a mislynch.
mail-mi, please quote for me a place where nkirbit pushes claiming. Maybe I missed it, but I think we're in a "oft-stated myths become facts" scenario.That could be it. i think i remember something like that, but i could be remembering wrong. Regardless, i think the slip was a legitimate scumslip. And with the fact that he said "I read ash's flavor." or something like that. I:f he reads the flavor, he would know study group=town.
Also, vote:sudgy
Until I have a strong scum candidate, I'm going to vote: Galzria, not because I think he is scum, but b/c I think he enables scum, and right now lynching him has the best chance of weakening them.
Also, TA, I'd really like to hear your definition of "anti-town" vs. "scummy". Why is nkirbit's vigging suggestion only "anti-town", but my vote for him "scummy"?
Until I have a strong scum candidate, I'm going to vote: Galzria, not because I think he is scum, but b/c I think he enables scum, and right now lynching him has the best chance of weakening them.
I cannot buy this line of thinking! Galzria is such a strong townie! We have no idea who or what he enables, so voting for him while at the same time saying you don't think he's scum is crazy to me. What is your read on him? He has made a big splash during the day, surely he's done something to give you a read one way or another.
bocaJ, the flaw in your thinking is that you are ascribing bias to the mods. Having played with them on many previous occasions, I am 100% confident that ash and yuma would, and do, apply the rules with same effect no matter the alignment of any players involved.agree, and I really don't like the idea of speculating players' alignment based on whether mods stepped in or not. The primary objective of a mod is to keep the game completely fair/honest and within the lines of the rules. That means they have to react to any situation as they would if they didn't know alignment, even though they do. It's tough, but yuma/ashersky are good mods.
I'd like to note that robz has been remarkably unmemorable despite the middling post count. But, uh, well, 21 players so most of the players are kind of a blur to me still.
I needed to make my day 1 robz bias post at some point and time was running out for that.
I'd like to note that robz has been remarkably unmemorable despite the middling post count. But, uh, well, 21 players so most of the players are kind of a blur to me still.
I needed to make my day 1 robz bias post at some point and time was running out for that.
I'd like to note that Eevee has been remarkably unmemorable despite his similarly middling post count!
I'd like to note that robz has been remarkably unmemorable despite the middling post count. But, uh, well, 21 players so most of the players are kind of a blur to me still.
I needed to make my day 1 robz bias post at some point and time was running out for that.
I'd like to note that Eevee has been remarkably unmemorable despite his similarly middling post count!
I'd lynch either of you. But Robz would be a better lynch in a mythical world where you two are the only choices.
Why? I have easily been more useful than Eevee.
Why? I have easily been more useful than Eevee.
And that doesn't make you more likely to be town. ;)
Why? I have easily been more useful than Eevee.
And that doesn't make you more likely to be town. ;)
OK.
I'm not much of a day 1 guy these days.I'd like to note that robz has been remarkably unmemorable despite the middling post count. But, uh, well, 21 players so most of the players are kind of a blur to me still.
I needed to make my day 1 robz bias post at some point and time was running out for that.
I'd like to note that Eevee has been remarkably unmemorable despite his similarly middling post count!
I'd lynch either of you. But Robz would be a better lynch in a mythical world where you two are the only choices.
Why? I have easily been more useful than Eevee.
I'm not much of a day 1 guy these days.I'd like to note that robz has been remarkably unmemorable despite the middling post count. But, uh, well, 21 players so most of the players are kind of a blur to me still.
I needed to make my day 1 robz bias post at some point and time was running out for that.
I'd like to note that Eevee has been remarkably unmemorable despite his similarly middling post count!
I'd lynch either of you. But Robz would be a better lynch in a mythical world where you two are the only choices.
Why? I have easily been more useful than Eevee.
Said the poster child for being "not much of a day 1 guy these days."
bocaJ, the flaw in your thinking is that you are ascribing bias to the mods. Having played with them on many previous occasions, I am 100% confident that ash and yuma would, and do, apply the rules with same effect no matter the alignment of any players involved.agree, and I really don't like the idea of speculating players' alignment based on whether mods stepped in or not. The primary objective of a mod is to keep the game completely fair/honest and within the lines of the rules. That means they have to react to any situation as they would if they didn't know alignment, even though they do. It's tough, but yuma/ashersky are good mods.
bocaJ, the flaw in your thinking is that you are ascribing bias to the mods. Having played with them on many previous occasions, I am 100% confident that ash and yuma would, and do, apply the rules with same effect no matter the alignment of any players involved.agree, and I really don't like the idea of speculating players' alignment based on whether mods stepped in or not. The primary objective of a mod is to keep the game completely fair/honest and within the lines of the rules. That means they have to react to any situation as they would if they didn't know alignment, even though they do. It's tough, but yuma/ashersky are good mods.
This is the kind of subconscious bias I was referring to; the "this is not the sort of information we use to play the game, so we shouldn't use it here." I am not questioning the quality of the mods at all, in fact I stated originally that the mods likely would have made the same decision in both cases, so its only weak evidence. But it is evidence none the less. It was not a foregone conclusion that xeiron would be killed, if it were, there would have been no need to ask for a mod ruling, we would only have need waited for the mods to carry out the sentence of execution.
I also think that mods don't act in a vacuum. The question was asked, "would the mods have done this if xe were a scum PR?" Idk, but I could certainly see themkeepinghim alive in that case, not because theyre bad mods, but because they are good and can recognize the need for flexibility in the interest of balance.
Like i said, i think at most this is weak evidnce, so really i can let it drop, but i think we are throwing out evidence because it is uncomfortable, and I thinkthats a really bad habit to be in and I want to call that out.
How would you interpret it as evidence then? I'm not seeing how this is something actionable.
Short explanation is that this was like an experiment, outcome is xe dies, that outcome is most likely in a world where NK is scum, so we update our prior probability assessment accordingly. If any other Bayesians in the group can elaborate (at least the logic if not the conclusion) I would be obliged.
Short explanation is that this was like an experiment, outcome is xe dies, that outcome is most likely in a world where NK is scum, so we update our prior probability assessment accordingly. If any other Bayesians in the group can elaborate (at least the logic if not the conclusion) I would be obliged.
The bolded part is wrong.
The mods DO NOT TAKE SIDES. At all.
It's not even "weak" evidence. It is zero evidence.
Whether xeiron broke the rules or not has nothing to do with nkirbit's alignment. What punishment the mods decided to mete out has nothing to do with nkirbit's alignment.
If I were modding this game and seeing this line of thought being continuously pursued, I would be legit angry that my players think so poorly of me as a mod.
This topic is not a productive use of our time.
I still maintain that f.ds does d1 wrong.
You can't "make a case" worth beans against scum unless they honestly 'slip'.
A) "Contradictions" aren't scummy. Town changes their mind and their opinion MUCH more than scum.
B) Scum can feed distrust and suspicion. They can fan the flames, or play the buddy game. Scum rarely ever stays noncommittal. If there's an issue, they have a stance on it. Which side is up to them.
C) Multiplayer interactions. Focus on them. "IF 'X' THEN 'Y'" are far more valuable than "I'm sure 'X' is true and bias everything towards that".
Every town player there right now is trying too hard to finger scum. To catch them. That won't work d1. Flip it around. Don't look for that one good case for somebody being scum, look for reasons to eliminate people. Give them reasons to be town - or at least a reason not to lynch. Archetype, for example, should be off the table. PoE down based on not who's "most likely" to be scum, but instead by eliminating those "less likely" to be scum.
Finding scum needs real information. You can't have that d1. D1 is a different animal and needs to be treated with different guiding principles. Town(s) will continue to fail because they think they can catch scum when they can't. D1 lynches are FAR, FAR below average for hitting scum for a reason.
The trick is making reasonable arguments for certain people (Arch, here) to be removed from lynch candidacy. Arguments that most agree on. I wouldn't lynch TA, Arch, Yuma or (I think) Sudgy in this game. Post count alone gets them a d1 pass from me. Can scum post a lot? Yes, but it's harder. And while one might be scum, there's a very, very low likelihood that two are. So look elsewhere.
But TA is being pushed for "being scummy". People want a d1 case, and that's what you get. It's the wrong way to find scum d1.
It's time for me to quote Galzria from when he was modding LOTR2. Consider the below required reading. It's what I've been endeavouring to do all day, and I'm working now to get the results of that analysis typed up.Quote from: GalzriaI still maintain that f.ds does d1 wrong.
You can't "make a case" worth beans against scum unless they honestly 'slip'.
A) "Contradictions" aren't scummy. Town changes their mind and their opinion MUCH more than scum.
B) Scum can feed distrust and suspicion. They can fan the flames, or play the buddy game. Scum rarely ever stays noncommittal. If there's an issue, they have a stance on it. Which side is up to them.
C) Multiplayer interactions. Focus on them. "IF 'X' THEN 'Y'" are far more valuable than "I'm sure 'X' is true and bias everything towards that".
Every town player there right now is trying too hard to finger scum. To catch them. That won't work d1. Flip it around. Don't look for that one good case for somebody being scum, look for reasons to eliminate people. Give them reasons to be town - or at least a reason not to lynch. Archetype, for example, should be off the table. PoE down based on not who's "most likely" to be scum, but instead by eliminating those "less likely" to be scum.
Finding scum needs real information. You can't have that d1. D1 is a different animal and needs to be treated with different guiding principles. Town(s) will continue to fail because they think they can catch scum when they can't. D1 lynches are FAR, FAR below average for hitting scum for a reason.
The trick is making reasonable arguments for certain people (Arch, here) to be removed from lynch candidacy. Arguments that most agree on. I wouldn't lynch TA, Arch, Yuma or (I think) Sudgy in this game. Post count alone gets them a d1 pass from me. Can scum post a lot? Yes, but it's harder. And while one might be scum, there's a very, very low likelihood that two are. So look elsewhere.
But TA is being pushed for "being scummy". People want a d1 case, and that's what you get. It's the wrong way to find scum d1.
I have not been online since wednesday night. I am 300 posts behind. I'll read them ASAP, but if there anything urgent happening? and claims or stuff I should know about?
Slight scum read on sudgy--can't quite put my finger on it, but especially that "I don't care what anybody thinks" comment struck me as odd. Nothing substantial though.
Constable Reggie pointed at the door, where a large number of suspiciously attractive yet not too homogenous people were entering.
“It looks to be a large family, touring this place. They’ve joined the regulars around the table now. Let me scan everyone with the Quantum Spanner.” The Inspector pointed the extremely high-tech looking item at them.
“It is as I feared. Blorgons. The group is too close together to accurately pinpoint who the Blorgons are amongst the group, or if they from the new arrivals or the regular studiers.”
Funny how some positive feedback makes you more excited about a game!
Volt, I implore you to look at days in relation to nkirbits wagon rather than giving him a d1 pass.
Faust, not days. Phone autocorrect my bad
*fistpump* Now this is what I was talking about - exactly what I was hoping for from our IC.Funny how some positive feedback makes you more excited about a game!
:D
I'm sure Voltgloss is working on his next post as we speak. I want to go back and see who said negative stuff about nkirbit but didn't vote for him (this group does include me, in all fairness. Because honestly, I won't know what I think about nkirbit until I see a flip).
Faust, not days. Phone autocorrect my bad
I know you've posted about him before but I forget your case. One sentence summary or a link to where you go into more detail?
*fistpump* Now this is what I was talking about - exactly what I was hoping for from our IC.Funny how some positive feedback makes you more excited about a game!
:D
I'm sure Voltgloss is working on his next post as we speak. I want to go back and see who said negative stuff about nkirbit but didn't vote for him (this group does include me, in all fairness. Because honestly, I won't know what I think about nkirbit until I see a flip).
Why are you more interested in this group than in people who actually voted him?
I simply don't want them to be forgotten. On nkirbit's wagon, I'd only vote for Robz, mcmc, or chairs.
As I said earlier multiple times, I think it is hard to catch scum on D1. We are trying to win, not lynch scum as soon as we can.
Why are you more interested in this group than in people who actually voted him?
I am not going to vote for nkirbit over this but I am also never going to forget it.
As I said earlier multiple times, I think it is hard to catch scum on D1. We are trying to win, not lynch scum as soon as we can.
I am not going to vote for nkirbit over this but I am also never going to forget it.
Voltgloss, what is your take on this sort of thing? In my opinion, they should be included in the pool if we're operating under the assumption that nkirbit is town. Or do you think that town is more likely to make this sort of statement?
I would lynch Eevee before Robz - Not that I particularly think either is scum (hence why I'm not voting there right now).I'd also lynch Eevee before Robz, and don't feel solidly about either of them. Both are middling posters with low memorability; those make for very inscrutable players, and I'm fairly sure this is the category scum hangs out in more often than not.
I'd lynch mcmc out of the shortlist.
I'd lynch mcmc out of the shortlist.
Because I forgot he was in the game until I read your list. Maybe could
As I said earlier multiple times, I think it is hard to catch scum on D1. We are trying to win, not lynch scum as soon as we can.
So voltgloss agrees with me about nkirbit and his wagon! Yay!
Don't forget this game's special Day 1 lynch mechanic. Scum don't actually need to get a mislynch to L-0. They just need a mislynch to have the most votes at the end of the day.
That, I think, makes it enticing for some scum (not all, but some) to find a cozy spot in the biggest lynchwagon - by far - that this town has had all Day.
Vote: Voltaire instead.
Didn't like him repeatedly deferring to Voltgloss.
Or how he inserted himself a couple pages back into a me/Eevee conversation, and then tried to extricate himself with humor. And then a fuller explanation that I think is stupid. And he's Voltgloss's least suspected person, and my new view is that whoever is least suspected is scum.
And he's Voltgloss's least suspected person, and my new view is that whoever is least suspected is scum.
I think we should look for scum amongst the group of players who are sucking up to Voltgloss.We truly lucked out on the IC roll though!
Vote: Voltaire instead.
Didn't like him repeatedly deferring to Voltgloss.
Or how he inserted himself a couple pages back into a me/Eevee conversation, and then tried to extricate himself with humor. And then a fuller explanation that I think is stupid. And he's Voltgloss's least suspected person, and my new view is that whoever is least suspected is scum.
Vote: Voltaire instead.
Didn't like him repeatedly deferring to Voltgloss.
Or how he inserted himself a couple pages back into a me/Eevee conversation, and then tried to extricate himself with humor. And then a fuller explanation that I think is stupid. And he's Voltgloss's least suspected person, and my new view is that whoever is least suspected is scum.
This case is bad and you should feel bad.
When I have more time tonight I'm going to look at Voltgloss's pool and post about it. I'll also try to make a case for why Walrus should be off the table.
So out of all of those, Vote: Robz is my preferred choice (oh god this makes me look so OMGUSy :(), then EFHW. I might put some off-wagon people here before chairs, mcmc, or sudgy.
Excuse me: there are four such people. shraeye, Archetype, Ahoppy, and liopoil. My error.
So out of all of those, Vote: Robz is my preferred choice (oh god this makes me look so OMGUSy :(), then EFHW. I might put some off-wagon people here before chairs, mcmc, or sudgy.
Yup, and recognizing it doesn't make it less OMGUSy. It makes it worse, actually, since you're worried it's going to look OMGUsy.
So out of all of those, Vote: Robz is my preferred choice (oh god this makes me look so OMGUSy :(), then EFHW. I might put some off-wagon people here before chairs, mcmc, or sudgy.
Yup, and recognizing it doesn't make it less OMGUSy. It makes it worse, actually, since you're worried it's going to look OMGUsy.
And, as scum, I decided to point it out! Also, can you answer the question I asked you?
It's time for me to quote Galzria from when he was modding LOTR2. Consider the below required reading. It's what I've been endeavouring to do all day, and I'm working now to get the results of that analysis typed up.Quote from: GalzriaI still maintain that f.ds does d1 wrong.
....
The trick is making reasonable arguments for certain people (Arch, here) to be removed from lynch candidacy. Arguments that most agree on. I wouldn't lynch TA, Arch, Yuma or (I think) Sudgy in this game. Post count alone gets them a d1 pass from me. Can scum post a lot? Yes, but it's harder. And while one might be scum, there's a very, very low likelihood that two are. So look elsewhere.
But TA is being pushed for "being scummy". People want a d1 case, and that's what you get. It's the wrong way to find scum d1.
I'm sort of torn on whether scum are more likely to be on or off my wagon.
....
I wonder if we're not looking at the wrong place, and if my wagon wasn't composed mostly of zealous town members who were excited by the prospect of a correct lynch, which is hard to come by day1.
Maybe we should mass flavor claim?I'm fine with that. maybe also mass secondary wincon claim, and get them all done and over with, so we can focus on lynching some scum.
This is bad, my flavor and role are connected, if you didn't know the show you wouldn't get it but I don't want to risk a scum player with show knowledge gaining role knowledge in fact vote: arch
vote: galzria
I do not like his speculation of his role or of his ideas about flavor, all of it comes across as scummy.
It sucks to lose Galz Day 1, as well. He's pretty useful.
I'd say we have no good reason to lynch him, except that his claim is a weird one to me and I disagree with his reasoning for it, and for why he should be lynched, and it's weird and makes me think it's a scum tactic.
This is baisically the crux of my reasoning, I just don't understand why he did this in this big a game D1, I know hes smart, he knows hes smart, he knows hes town(claims to be) why is it ever good for him to get himself lynched. I understand his argument I just don't support it.
Intent to vote nkirbit pending a count.
His play is becoming reckless, it's day one of a HUGE game, that's reason enough. Though I'm not forgetting galz here and would still be happy with his lynch.
So you're counting on scum making a mistake by NKing/not NKing you (whichever is actually incorrect)? ummm... Well, they definitely have a better chance of getting it right than wrong.....If killing you helps town, then scum will not nk you. so you simply cannot make that arguement. and if you are town, getting lynched is still bad because that's a mislynch and mislynches are terribad. infact, by NOT claiming you have a better chance of getting NKed. And if you are scum, claiming to want to be killed can make sense as long as you don't actually get lynched, which you think is quite likely because well if you are the role you say you are we shouldn't lynch you. However, I am coming around to the possibility that you are town who mistakenly claimed.
This argument is crap. It presumes that scum know for certain that NK'ing me is bad for them. They don't. I don't. It might be. It might not be. Maybe killing me would be bad for town. In that case they want me dead. Your argument is crap because you, nor I, nor scum, actually know.
Further, the attitude that "Always lynching town is terribad" is simply false. If I enable scum, you've got a 1/20 chance of finding that scum and killing him. 5%. If I enable scum, I've got a 1/1 chance of disabling his power if I die. 100%. Do I enable scum? Who knows. But if I do, I'm a much better lynch than even a VT would be, AND you don't force more claims D1.
Eevee, I disagree that it would be unfun. I'm having a blast. And it's incredibly creative. Plus if I enable scum, then it's a great balance to the game. I think it would be MORE unbalanced if I enable town. The fact that I don't know is genius, and part of what makes simply claiming and being killed questionably optimal. I don't know, but it's a thrill to find out. If it is, hey, awesome. I've no problem with the role. None whatsoever.
Here is chairs. There are a number of contradictions here, but I'm not sure how scummy they are.
212 self-votes. Never does answer my question about why.
230 says there are too many people in the game, grateful he doesn't scumhunt by rereading.
346 votes red door
347 suggests show-claiming.
358 claims town. Votes shraeye "b/c I can never read that guy."
378 explains show-claim suggestion as based on theory that alignments may correspond to show.
Says he will not pursue his secondary wincon b/c it would be bad for town.
394 Agrees with Galzria that we shouldn't ignore flavor and thinks flavor and role are related.
423 restates we shouldn't ignore flavor and votes Galzria. Says that as scum in HP he found town Galz frustrating. He doesn't think this is town!Galz here.
445 votes mail-mi for scumslip.
448 and 456 explains his vote
458 accepts mail-mi's clarification but doesn't unvote.
484 says this is town!xeiron. votes nkirbit for scumslip.
537 revotes shraeye for LAL
541 asked about his vote, says "why not shraeye?". Denies sheeping.
546 feels he is grasping at straws. Would vote any lurker.
613 answers question about earlier show claim idea.
792 felt nkirbit's wagon got too big too fast.
872 nkirbit reminds him of himself as caught scum, revotes nkirbit.
876 agrees mods don't take sides.
908 and 911 willing to lynch mcmc ... b/c he had forgotten mcmc was in the game.
I still think his frustration here makes little sense, especially as town, it seemes really outraged for no good reason, and kind of mean.
So what happened to the soft deadline? We'll be lynching nkirbit by default as things now stand. Is that what people want, and if so why aren't they voting for him? This automatic lynch thing really spares people a lot of accountability.
So what happened to the soft deadline? We'll be lynching nkirbit by default as things now stand. Is that what people want, and if so why aren't they voting for him? This automatic lynch thing really spares people a lot of accountability.
This is sort of similar to an earlier post that EFHW makes (#775) earlier, where she asked if Nkirbit was really going to be our lynch today. Apart from this, she hasn't really made any effort to actually find another lynch.. she did a re-read of Chairs but didn't really come out with any conclusion at all, and a re-read of Mcmc where she votes him, but I still get a feeling that she's more waiting for a case to come along than trying to find one herself.
I guess she has been busy, so it could just be that, though. I'm not sure. #775 is the post that kind of gives me a scummy feeling, mostly.
WalrusI did in fact read these posts. What the heck do you mean by massively high in content? The 5 RVS posts at the beginning? The 4 posts where he's joking about Red Doors and crap? The 4 posts where he says "Galzria, hmmmmm, that's a humdinger"? or the 3 posts where he says "Sorry I'm a newb"?
Why he shouldn't be on this list: his posts are massively high in content, reads, positions, and the like. And I personally think he's been scumhunting. I urge everyone, including Voltgloss, to re-read his posts and see how the content of his posts makes him a poor D1 lynch.
I'll look at the "small four" later (maybe not tonight), and if anyone wants a serious reply to Robz's case I can give that too.
Archetype - But there's very little here. Virtually no reads/stances etc. But nothing bad, I guess either.
EFHW's not a he. But what I mean to say about these quotes is that these are exactly the people I'm the most worried about. Don't remember much, they did this and that, no arguments that stick out or ruffle feathers.
- EFHW - Very little here. I can bias myself to read his posts as scum easily positioning on various wagons, or town who does not have strong convictions. But I could be very happy with a vote here.
Voltaire, Ahoppy just moved to a new continent and mcmc has been pretty vocal of being super busy for ages. I don't believe giving either any sort of a pass for lurking is smart.
Archetype - But there's very little here. Virtually no reads/stances etc. But nothing bad, I guess either.EFHW's not a he. But what I mean to say about these quotes is that these are exactly the people I'm the most worried about. Don't remember much, they did this and that, no arguments that stick out or ruffle feathers.
- EFHW - Very little here. I can bias myself to read his posts as scum easily positioning on various wagons, or town who does not have strong convictions. But I could be very happy with a vote here.
WalrusI did in fact read these posts. What the heck do you mean by massively high in content? The 5 RVS posts at the beginning? The 4 posts where he's joking about Red Doors and crap? The 4 posts where he says "Galzria, hmmmmm, that's a humdinger"? or the 3 posts where he says "Sorry I'm a newb"?
Why he shouldn't be on this list: his posts are massively high in content, reads, positions, and the like. And I personally think he's been scumhunting. I urge everyone, including Voltgloss, to re-read his posts and see how the content of his posts makes him a poor D1 lynch.
I'll look at the "small four" later (maybe not tonight), and if anyone wants a serious reply to Robz's case I can give that too.
It's not content-less, for sure. But I'm highly suspicious of how inflated you keep stating Walrus's 'content' is.
For an even more foolproof plan, though, let's go with vote: mail-mi.
I'm always up for a vote: mail-mi.
Also, Walrus, it would be bastard for Voltgloss to be scum and since this isn't bastard, I'd recommend moving your vote elsewhere.
Haha, you mean there are no mod-sponsored bastard elements :P
But if we're going to be super serious here, I would have to vote: Voltaire
because:
1.) I agree with Galzria that jumping on Archetype like that felt kind of suspicious. Also, I'm curious to see Galz's plan, because I sure as hell don't have one.
2.) Why so quick to vote mail-mi, if only kind of as a joke?
3.) Why are you the one who expresses concern over my Voltgloss vote, which was obviously a temporary joke?
4.) Your name also starts with 'Volt', which is scummy :)
Not much to go on at all but I don't want to just be lurking and joking about. It would have been irresponsible of me to leave the IC hanging at L-10. I apologize Voltaire if this is totally baseless.
There seems to be much volatility surrounding Shraeye, and I can understand the reasons why, but I'd rather let the man defend himself at least so we could sort it out better. I saw what happened to the Town Cop in that other game, and while this is obviously not the same situation, I'm trying at least to take a measured stance.
I'm fine with my vote where it is for right now, although it is liable to change. In case it wasn't clear I'm a noob too so it's not like I have much of a baseline to go by.
I'm going to go ahead and change to vote: Shraeye for now. He had a chance to respond and, well, to me it wasn't so convincing. His current attitude just doesn't smack of innocence.
Meanwhile 'aire has responded to the pressure on him with aplomb. Still wary, but I think Shraeye is the better vote for now. In any case it's still early and better options may present themselves.
Thanks for the general advice, lio, that was helpful for me at least. Neutral read right now but I do appreciate the strategy tips.
This Galzria situation is a real mind-bender...my gut tells me that lynching him would be a bad move, but I don't really know what to think. A lotta ins, a lotta outs, a lotta what-have-yous.
I'm not going to vote for him right now in any case. The 75% comment also seems innocuous enough to me.
In fact, let me unvote for the time being. I would think that if Shraeye were scum, he would have turned up by now to defend himself more effectively. Maybe he was just being a bit blunt after all. Also, a couple of other people jumped on the Shraeye boat after me with minimal justification--not that my initial reasoning was any less tenuous, but still it raises some eyebrows.
Anyway, what I'm trying to say here is, I have no idea what I'm doing :)
I will be busy this weekend, like all of us. I will be sure to check in on the thread twice a day (morning and night) and I will move my vote to one of my/Voltgloss's other candidates if it's clear Robz will not be a viable lynch at that point.I agree with the sentiment, I'm just saying at least mcmc would be this lurky no matter what, I don't think it applies to him.Voltaire, Ahoppy just moved to a new continent and mcmc has been pretty vocal of being super busy for ages. I don't believe giving either any sort of a pass for lurking is smart.
Don't worry, it's based on data! I actually went back and looked up the post counts of the entire town for the past 3-4 normal games, and looked at where scum was. They're usually in the bottom third, but not literally the least active.
#84, Mafia QT:QuoteYou guys are the lurkiest bunch of scum in the history of the world, by the way.
Well put Robz, well put.
Lynch. all. lurkers.
Hey, my win rate is 66%! (I'm not counting Morgrim's game >_<)
Yeah, I'm changing it officially.
LAL: Lynch All Lurkers = No. No more.
The new policy is
LALL: Lynch All Lurkers, Literally
Since my megaposts, the following people have commented about lurking:I'd guess that's a mistake?
[...]
- faust says we're "probably good lynching a lurker" and unvotes nkirbit. Later notes mcmc as "heavy lurking" but gives him a "null read," instead voting chairs.
[...]
- Players who HAVE posted, but did not mention lurking (that I saw - please correct me if wrong): Twistedarcher, sudgy, shraeye, nkirbit, Robz888, Archetype, EFHW, bocaJ, liopoil, faust.
Since my megaposts, the following people have commented about lurking:I'd guess that's a mistake?
[...]
- faust says we're "probably good lynching a lurker" and unvotes nkirbit. Later notes mcmc as "heavy lurking" but gives him a "null read," instead voting chairs.
[...]
- Players who HAVE posted, but did not mention lurking (that I saw - please correct me if wrong): Twistedarcher, sudgy, shraeye, nkirbit, Robz888, Archetype, EFHW, bocaJ, liopoil, faust.
Voltgloss, can you name me a player for which it is true that they post less frequently if scum?
Here's a summary of mcmc's 8 in game posts. Post numbers may be off by one. I'll put my thoughts here and there in italics.I don't get how any of this is scummy, except that he only has 8 posts.
258 At liopoil's request, he accuses liopoil of being a jester. He also states his devotion to the L Street Bar, thereby revealing his likely flavorname.
276 Says his secondary wincon is more difficult than some others and that it likely contradicts others'.
277 I don't understand this quote from mcmc b/c he is objecting to flavor claiming, when he has already revealed his likely flavor role.Maybe we should mass flavor claim?I'm fine with that. maybe also mass secondary wincon claim, and get them all done and over with, so we can focus on lynching some scum.
This is bad, my flavor and role are connected, if you didn't know the show you wouldn't get it but I don't want to risk a scum player with show knowledge gaining role knowledge in fact vote: arch
314 Unvotes Archetype without saying why. Votes L Street Bar. Promises to read and post more on Wednesday.
435 This is his only post on Wednesday.vote: galzria
I do not like his speculation of his role or of his ideas about flavor, all of it comes across as scummy.
667 I find this post confusing and contradictory to his voting for Galzria.It sucks to lose Galz Day 1, as well. He's pretty useful.
I'd say we have no good reason to lynch him, except that his claim is a weird one to me and I disagree with his reasoning for it, and for why he should be lynched, and it's weird and makes me think it's a scum tactic.
This is baisically the crux of my reasoning, I just don't understand why he did this in this big a game D1, I know hes smart, he knows hes smart, he knows hes town(claims to be) why is it ever good for him to get himself lynched. I understand his argument I just don't support it.
728Intent to vote nkirbit pending a count.
His play is becoming reckless, it's day one of a HUGE game, that's reason enough. Though I'm not forgetting galz here and would still be happy with his lynch.
855 Votes nkirbit saying it's not a strong case, but there are 20 players and it is Day 1.
I still plan to reread chairs and shraeye, but vote: mcmc.
Volt, while your point might be valid, I expect better analysis than that (regarding your number crunching). Many of those games had a town member running up the post count by over-contributing. At an extreme, a game with 10 people who combine for a 100 posts D1, where one town member consists of 91 while each other player has 1 will produce scum that have just a single post against the average of 10. But that's not really representative of what happened. It wouldn't be fair to say that scum 'lurked' there, although that's the conclusion you would've drawn here.
Volt, while your point might be valid, I expect better analysis than that (regarding your number crunching). Many of those games had a town member running up the post count by over-contributing. At an extreme, a game with 10 people who combine for a 100 posts D1, where one town member consists of 91 while each other player has 1 will produce scum that have just a single post against the average of 10. But that's not really representative of what happened. It wouldn't be fair to say that scum 'lurked' there, although that's the conclusion you would've drawn here.
The numbers are actually irrelevant to my point. My point is in the post after the numbers. I offered the numbers simply in response to Robz. If you or Robz or anyone else have different data to present, by all means do so.
Mean average seems like a so-so metric. How time consuming would it be to determine medians?
So, the following players in this game have a history of posting less than average when scum: shraeye, chairs, mail-mi, liopoil, nkirbit, Galzria, mcmcsalot, EFHW.
Here's a summary of mcmc's 8 in game posts. Post numbers may be off by one. I'll put my thoughts here and there in italics.I don't get how any of this is scummy, except that he only has 8 posts.
258 At liopoil's request, he accuses liopoil of being a jester. He also states his devotion to the L Street Bar, thereby revealing his likely flavorname.
276 Says his secondary wincon is more difficult than some others and that it likely contradicts others'.
277 I don't understand this quote from mcmc b/c he is objecting to flavor claiming, when he has already revealed his likely flavor role.Maybe we should mass flavor claim?I'm fine with that. maybe also mass secondary wincon claim, and get them all done and over with, so we can focus on lynching some scum.
This is bad, my flavor and role are connected, if you didn't know the show you wouldn't get it but I don't want to risk a scum player with show knowledge gaining role knowledge in fact vote: arch
314 Unvotes Archetype without saying why. Votes L Street Bar. Promises to read and post more on Wednesday.
435 This is his only post on Wednesday.vote: galzria
I do not like his speculation of his role or of his ideas about flavor, all of it comes across as scummy.
667 I find this post confusing and contradictory to his voting for Galzria.It sucks to lose Galz Day 1, as well. He's pretty useful.
I'd say we have no good reason to lynch him, except that his claim is a weird one to me and I disagree with his reasoning for it, and for why he should be lynched, and it's weird and makes me think it's a scum tactic.
This is baisically the crux of my reasoning, I just don't understand why he did this in this big a game D1, I know hes smart, he knows hes smart, he knows hes town(claims to be) why is it ever good for him to get himself lynched. I understand his argument I just don't support it.
728Intent to vote nkirbit pending a count.
His play is becoming reckless, it's day one of a HUGE game, that's reason enough. Though I'm not forgetting galz here and would still be happy with his lynch.
855 Votes nkirbit saying it's not a strong case, but there are 20 players and it is Day 1.
I still plan to reread chairs and shraeye, but vote: mcmc.
....
And here's one constant throughout the game: mcmcsalot has consistently been at the bottom of the post count.
This says to me two things:
- If mcmcsalot is scum, the people who have NOT advocated lynching a lurker are more suspicious.
- If mcmcsalot is town, the people who HAVE advocated lynching a lurker are more suspicious.
Add to this the fact that mcmcsalot's heavy lurk gives us the least information to go on vis-a-vis his alignment (if we leave him alive).
For these reasons, I think mcmcsalot's lynch today will be an informative lynch, and will help us align our scum-catching sights Day 2.
Side question for Voltaire: you recently said you "looked up the post counts of the entire town for the past 3-4 normal games, and looked at where scum was. They're usually in the bottom third, but not ltierally the least active." Here's my question: in the games you reviewed, was that post counts for the entire game, or for Day 1 only? Because the data we should be looking at is for Day 1 only. (Also: which games did you review?)
So, I said I would get around to a reread... But... Stuff... Happened. So, sorry. I'll also be V/LA tomorrow.sudgy, what do you say about the whole Study Group = town situation that mail-mi pointed out? For me, that's a good reason believe he is town, and if you're voting for him, I think you should have stronger arguments than tunneling and lack of content.
I want to say that I think mcmc is town. town!mcmc is usually extremely lurky, while scum!mcmc lurks but has a lot of content in each post. Every time I've tried to read him based on this, I was right. I got him in my first game, and always got a townread on him others but when he was scum.
So, I'm going to go with Voltgloss' reasoning and say that people suggesting lynching him are more likely to be scum.
I looked at Volt's post about people talking about lurking, and mail-mi was the one saying the most, "lynch the heavy lurkers!!! [after mentioning mcmc]" and he hasn't really contributed anything new, other than sudden-tunneling on nkirbit for his """"""""slip"""""""". His wanting to lynch mcmc (who I think is town) and his lack of content leads me to Vote: mail-mi and that is probably where I'll stay.
So, I said I would get around to a reread... But... Stuff... Happened. So, sorry. I'll also be V/LA tomorrow.sudgy, what do you say about the whole Study Group = town situation that mail-mi pointed out? For me, that's a good reason believe he is town, and if you're voting for him, I think you should have stronger arguments than tunneling and lack of content.
I want to say that I think mcmc is town. town!mcmc is usually extremely lurky, while scum!mcmc lurks but has a lot of content in each post. Every time I've tried to read him based on this, I was right. I got him in my first game, and always got a townread on him others but when he was scum.
So, I'm going to go with Voltgloss' reasoning and say that people suggesting lynching him are more likely to be scum.
I looked at Volt's post about people talking about lurking, and mail-mi was the one saying the most, "lynch the heavy lurkers!!! [after mentioning mcmc]" and he hasn't really contributed anything new, other than sudden-tunneling on nkirbit for his """"""""slip"""""""". His wanting to lynch mcmc (who I think is town) and his lack of content leads me to Vote: mail-mi and that is probably where I'll stay.
I think it points neither way, if a scum knew that Study Group = town (which they easily can if they pay attention), they would say the same things as mail-mi did.
--snip--
@ liopoil: I'm surprised you don't see it. 1. He revealed his flavor role. 2. He then "refused" to reveal his flavor role b/c it might help scum. 3. He promised to reread and post but never did. 4. His post explaining his Galzria vote is confusing and by the end sounds like he thinks Galz is town! 5. His vote for nkirbit is temporized with "it's Day 1 and a huge game". He didn't say that when he voted for Arch and Galzria. That is a scummy jumping on wagon.
they could have just been told in their PM. maybe in their wincon it mentions controlling half the study group or something along those lines. Or one of them might have asked ash and he told them.
I think it points neither way, if a scum knew that Study Group = town (which they easily can if they pay attention), they would say the same things as mail-mi did.
How would scum have learned that before ash updated the rules post?
Speaking of EFHW. It seems like she has come out of her shell and is posting a bit more lately. In fact it was her analysis of mcmc's 8 posts (and mail-mi's startled reaction) that prompted me to think about a lurker vote, especially with nkirbit off the table. Why is she posting more lately? Maybe she just has more free time. Maybe she realizes her self-preservation is at stake now that lurkers are in the limelight. Did she analyze mcmc's posts in detail in order to demonstrate that she was not the lurkiest of the lot? It's hard to say. Right now my read is pretty null, maybe with a slight town edge.
I take issue with liopoil and sudgy for thinking that people who disagree with them must be scummy.I didn't say that people who disagree with me must be scummy.
Voltgloss, can you name me a player for which it is true that they post less frequently if scum?I think this is the true measure; otherwise you'll get players like mcmcsalot/Archetype/xeiron etc who always post less regardless of alignment
Volt, while your point might be valid, I expect better analysis than that (regarding your number crunching). Many of those games had a town member running up the post count by over-contributing. At an extreme, a game with 10 people who combine for a 100 posts D1, where one town member consists of 91 while each other player has 1 will produce scum that have just a single post against the average of 10. But that's not really representative of what happened. It wouldn't be fair to say that scum 'lurked' there, although that's the conclusion you would've drawn here.Here's another thing; multiple players will look like they've posted 'under' the average if there is a very high outlier.
But it did feel like you were arbitrarily assigning scum points off a metric that is inherently flawed.I also got this impression by Voltgloss's post; or at the very least, that it was something people would latch onto as a 'reason' to suspect others.
Also read mail-mi's interaction with chairs. That felt pretty town v. town to me, as i said before.So, I said I would get around to a reread... But... Stuff... Happened. So, sorry. I'll also be V/LA tomorrow.sudgy, what do you say about the whole Study Group = town situation that mail-mi pointed out? For me, that's a good reason believe he is town, and if you're voting for him, I think you should have stronger arguments than tunneling and lack of content.
I want to say that I think mcmc is town. town!mcmc is usually extremely lurky, while scum!mcmc lurks but has a lot of content in each post. Every time I've tried to read him based on this, I was right. I got him in my first game, and always got a townread on him others but when he was scum.
So, I'm going to go with Voltgloss' reasoning and say that people suggesting lynching him are more likely to be scum.
I looked at Volt's post about people talking about lurking, and mail-mi was the one saying the most, "lynch the heavy lurkers!!! [after mentioning mcmc]" and he hasn't really contributed anything new, other than sudden-tunneling on nkirbit for his """"""""slip"""""""". His wanting to lynch mcmc (who I think is town) and his lack of content leads me to Vote: mail-mi and that is probably where I'll stay.
This says to me two things:This is something I think has merit, the thoughts regarding mcmcsalot. I'm reading his posts, and there are indeed very few. What I don't like, is that those that DO exist are very heavily slanted towards flavor-secondary-win stuff. He says some flavor stuff about bars, and understanding Community jokes. Accuses liopoil of jestering, and then votes Arch over trying to mass flavor claim; later unvotes and votes for flavor stuff.
- If mcmcsalot is scum, the people who have NOT advocated lynching a lurker are more suspicious.
- If mcmcsalot is town, the people who HAVE advocated lynching a lurker are more suspicious.
Add to this the fact that mcmcsalot's heavy lurk gives us the least information to go on vis-a-vis his alignment (if we leave him alive).
For these reasons, I think mcmcsalot's lynch today will be an informative lynch, and will help us align our scum-catching sights Day 2.
But is he likely to be scum?
Yeah, shraeye, you're right, I wish my posts had more meat to them too. Some of that I think is relevant; I mean, part of the reason my posts are less substantial than they could be is that I am less familiar with this game and group of players. But I'm trying to make an effort. The stupid jokes will persist--making stupid jokes is an important part of my social behavior, and in a game of social deduction it would be irresponsible of me not to express my full spectrum of sociality :) But yeah, "massively high in content" was a bit of an exaggeration. I still think Voltaire's intentions were probably good. Still feel relatively towny about both Voltaire and shraeye.It's entirely possible that voltaire has the right 'read' on you and that you're town. What makes me worried is that he's backing it up with exaggerated-to-the-point-of-untrue reasoning. Massively high content? No, that's just not true. That feels like a manufactured read, but it's placating, because it's comforting to see somebody calling you town. Scum do this frequently.
I take issue with liopoil and sudgy for thinking that people who disagree with them must be scummy. In my opinion, mcmc's posts are scummy. You disagree, which is fine. But I don't think I have exaggerated or tunneled or deserve an FOS for having my opinions.Just because somebody disagrees with you doesn't make them suspicious. Just because they reach the same conclusions doesn't mean they're 'trying hard' or 'towny', in and of itself.
I also second faust in his reaction to sudgy's mail-mi vote. Has mail-mi done anything he doesn't do in any other game? I find that a strange place to park your vote.
reread TA and nvm, he sounds his usual self. I was suspicious of his not showing up for deadline, b/c he always does, and he was online at the time. But I also see he has a post expressing his feeling that a soft deadline lynch was very unlikely b/c we would need 11 votes. But we're getting very close to the real deadline now, he says he thinks nkirbit is town, and unless something changes nkirbit is still the one getting lynched, so why isn't he here advocating someone else?What? Are you saying that TA is his usual self so you think he's town? Or do you think he's suspicious because he's not advocating anyone else?
reread TA and nvm, he sounds his usual self. I was suspicious of his not showing up for deadline, b/c he always does, and he was online at the time. But I also see he has a post expressing his feeling that a soft deadline lynch was very unlikely b/c we would need 11 votes. But we're getting very close to the real deadline now, he says he thinks nkirbit is town, and unless something changes nkirbit is still the one getting lynched, so why isn't he here advocating someone else?What? Are you saying that TA is his usual self so you think he's town? Or do you think he's suspicious because he's not advocating anyone else?
shraeye: I feel like he's acting the same way as scum in WWTWDP--being gone then posting a whole bunch. Also, I know that he's busy, but he feels the same and is acting the same. Would vote here.This is shraeye in every game. And not just mafia ones; my entire posting stats recently have been these bursts of 20-40 minute intervals, when I have time to log on. I've been scum in 3 of the 4 last games I played (and died N1 in my only town game), so you say "shraeye feels as he always has...and he's always scum!" The conclusion just isn't sound logic.
This argument frustrates me. "you made a case with stretches on day1! must be scum!" Cases will always contain stretches expecially day1 cases, because people just don't come out and say that thye're scum. This is just how scumhunting works, you read what is available, and try to fill in a subtext. I really really dislike people FoSing others who are trying to do regular-stuff scumhunting. So reverse-FOS:liopoil
So, he very well could be scum (after all, he IS lurking and mcmc DOES lurk more as scum, and #5 isn't nothing), but most of your case is bad and making large stretches, and looks like you are trying to make it look better than it really is. FoS: EFHW
Can I interest anyone in a Liopoil lynch? He seems scummier to me than mcmc, who is actually lurking so much that he's really just a big question mark (and probably so far behind that catching up to defend himself is possibly unlikely before deadline).I could be, yes. Is nkirbit still getting lynched? We should definitely do something about that.
Post Count of people of unknown alignment. (so everyone except xeiron and voltgloss). People struck out are the people who voltgloss said we shouldn't lynch today. people bolded are the people voltgloss specifically wants to look at. Pregame posts are not included.Voltaire: 101
nkirbit: 73
TwistedArcher: 53
faust: 51
Galzria: 49
Robz888: 41Eevee: 40
sudgy: 37Dsell: 35
mail-mi: 33
EFHW: 31
shraeye: 29
liopoil: 28
chairs: 25
WalrusMcFishSr: 23
archetype: 20bocaj: 14
ahoppy: 13
mcmcsalot: 8
The case didn't NEED to have stretches though. Just lurking and jumping on the nkirbit wagon are good enough reasons to vote for someone D1. but she added all that other junk before it.This argument frustrates me. "you made a case with stretches on day1! must be scum!" Cases will always contain stretches expecially day1 cases, because people just don't come out and say that thye're scum. This is just how scumhunting works, you read what is available, and try to fill in a subtext. I really really dislike people FoSing others who are trying to do regular-stuff scumhunting. So reverse-FOS:liopoil
So, he very well could be scum (after all, he IS lurking and mcmc DOES lurk more as scum, and #5 isn't nothing), but most of your case is bad and making large stretches, and looks like you are trying to make it look better than it really is. FoS: EFHW
my defending of mcmc has nothing to do with accusing me of being a jester. All that did was get me to vote for L street, that's it.The case didn't NEED to have stretches though. Just lurking and jumping on the nkirbit wagon are good enough reasons to vote for someone D1. but she added all that other junk before it.This argument frustrates me. "you made a case with stretches on day1! must be scum!" Cases will always contain stretches expecially day1 cases, because people just don't come out and say that thye're scum. This is just how scumhunting works, you read what is available, and try to fill in a subtext. I really really dislike people FoSing others who are trying to do regular-stuff scumhunting. So reverse-FOS:liopoil
So, he very well could be scum (after all, he IS lurking and mcmc DOES lurk more as scum, and #5 isn't nothing), but most of your case is bad and making large stretches, and looks like you are trying to make it look better than it really is. FoS: EFHW
For example, you in doctor who. You were scum, and on D1 you caught VG's "scumslip" which got him lynched. But you made a whole big case which nobody really agreed with before that in the same post. This is what I think EFHW did here.
PPE: What the heck robz? I'm not saying we shouldn't lynch the crossed off people, or that we should only lynch the bold people. Of course not, that's crazy. Just including them.
For example, you in doctor who. You were scum, and on D1 you caught VG's "scumslip" which got him lynched. But you made a whole big case which nobody really agreed with before that in the same post. This is what I think EFHW did here.You're making it sound liek my Voltgloss case in DrWho was totally fake, just to support the scumslip. I totally 100% believed that Voltgloss was the SK, and totally 100% believed in my entire case.
Really? well, that does change things.For example, you in doctor who. You were scum, and on D1 you caught VG's "scumslip" which got him lynched. But you made a whole big case which nobody really agreed with before that in the same post. This is what I think EFHW did here.You're making it sound liek my Voltgloss case in DrWho was totally fake, just to support the scumslip. I totally 100% believed that Voltgloss was the SK, and totally 100% believed in my entire case.
liopoil - first to dive into secondary win-con. i disagree with 'getting it out of the way'. just ignore it, and focus on the game, which will be tough enough with our large numbers. wordy explanation that basically adds nothing new to the Galz-discussion, behind which he hides his vote; that be scummy. says that we shouldn't think too much of the lurking arguments, but IS interested in lynching mcmcs for lurking. I don't like this stance at all. Hiding behind Voltgloss's list; trying to attack EFHW's day1 case for 'stretching'.Look, if I can get the secondary win, why not do it? I really doubt it had much of any effect on the real game. I'd rather do it then than in the middle of D6 while massclaiming or something.
I was missing Eevee's vote on this last vote count. I've added him to "Not Voting" for now and I will double-check previous pages.
Mods - what happens if someone doesn't vote for the concert?
Yes, my latest posts are defensive, because I am defending myself. What did you expect?? Defending myself isn't scummy, if that's what you're saying. I've heavily defended myself every game I've had a wagon on me in, which is like, all of them.Yeah, I didn't mean to say that defending yourself is particularly scummy. I just looked at your and mcmc's reaction to the accusations and tried to find out which was more suspicious. I found mcmc's a bit townier, but only by a small margin.
IIRC, mcmc didn't start posting more in KCGM when he got accused... he lurked the whole way.
and you say "so in the end, liopoil looks a little more scummy to me". Which of shraeye's/robz's/dsell's bad points are you agreeing with?
I think he's made some valid points and at least he's given us something that we could go by later.
I'm a little surprised to see lio jump to the vote leader so quickly. My read on him was perhaps slightly scummy, but nowhere near the best candidate for Day 1 lynch in my opinion. I think he's made some valid points and at least he's given us something that we could go by later.If on day1 we always lynch the 100% most blatant scummy person, I would posit that we'd actually hit scum 0% of the time. scum hang out in that "slightly scummy, something's off, but I just don't have enough hard evidence to back my gut" region, in my opinion. liopoil really fits this discription.
vote: efhwMight I ask why?
Prefer this over lio.
Sorry, busy weekend and all.
I agree with liopoil re: efhw. When voltglosss advocated lynching someone on the lower side, she was actually the person who stood out to me more than anyone else -- she was much lurkier than she normally was. Only when we started heading towards lall did she start posting more, which would be a natural time for scum to up their post count.
I also thought that lioppils points about her were generally good. So I'm sheeping lios reasonin here, vote:efhw . Faust can wait until when I have time to make a case.
To shraeye and anyone else finding lio scummy for fulfilling his win condition, I disagree. If mine was that easy you bet I'd do it, and anyone else would too. Regardless, it's completely null to me and I don't see how it's in any way scummy.
What I don't like, is that those that DO exist are very heavily slanted towards flavor-secondary-win stuff. He says some flavor stuff about bars, and understanding Community jokes. Accuses liopoil of jestering, and then votes Arch over trying to mass flavor claim; later unvotes and votes for flavor stuff.
As of the most recent vote count, the following players are voting for non-IC approved targets: nkirbit, bocaJ, mcmc, sudgy, liopoil (and Voltgloss, but I'm certain he'll show up to vote). Now, I understand the whole "don't blindly sheep the IC" thing, but nobody has made a case compelling enough to overrule Voltgloss and send a wave of support from the rest of the town onto their other lynches. At this point, with the day ending in less than 12 hours, these players are voting for non-viable candidates and actively hindering us getting the best lynch through (assuming any of these players are town, and have an opinion about the actual vote-getters). I find this quite anti-town, and encourage them to put their vote somewhere where it will be useful.
Day 1 will last seven days. If a majority lynch is not reached by the deadline, the player with the most votes will be lynched. If there is a tie, the player to first reach L-1 will be lynched. No Lynch is not specifically disallowed, but would require a vote to occur.
For those voting EFHW: If she is scum, why do you think she hopped off the nkirbit wagon when she did (and for the reasons she gave)?
Question for the mods:Day 1 will last seven days. If a majority lynch is not reached by the deadline, the player with the most votes will be lynched. If there is a tie, the player to first reach L-1 will be lynched. No Lynch is not specifically disallowed, but would require a vote to occur.
If there is a tie at deadline, and neither player is at L-1, will the player to first reach the count at which they are tied be the one who is lynched?
I assume that's the case but want to confirm. Thanks.
Volt's most recent points about mcmc are good, but the initial one abuot how lynching mcmc will give us information about people's lurking stances is a bad one, I think, because mcmc doesn't represent all lurkers.
Volt's most recent points about mcmc are good, but the initial one abuot how lynching mcmc will give us information about people's lurking stances is a bad one, I think, because mcmc doesn't represent all lurkers.
But he is the biggest lurker.
Look at it this way. Think like you are scum.
- Say one of your scumpartners is the bottom lurker. Do you advocate the general concept of a lurker lynch?
- Say the bottom lurker is town. Do you advocate the general concept of a lurker lynch?
Volt's most recent points about mcmc are good, but the initial one abuot how lynching mcmc will give us information about people's lurking stances is a bad one, I think, because mcmc doesn't represent all lurkers.
But he is the biggest lurker.
Look at it this way. Think like you are scum.
- Say one of your scumpartners is the bottom lurker. Do you advocate the general concept of a lurker lynch?
- Say the bottom lurker is town. Do you advocate the general concept of a lurker lynch?
Question for the mods:Day 1 will last seven days. If a majority lynch is not reached by the deadline, the player with the most votes will be lynched. If there is a tie, the player to first reach L-1 will be lynched. No Lynch is not specifically disallowed, but would require a vote to occur.
If there is a tie at deadline, and neither player is at L-1, will the player to first reach the count at which they are tied be the one who is lynched?
I assume that's the case but want to confirm. Thanks.
Yes. The player to first reach L-X will be lynched, regardless of whether that is L-1 or L-5 as long as there is no one currently with more votes than the tied players.
I've explained why I think mcmc's lynch is informative. Out of everyone who has posted rereads on mcmc, I agree most with shraeye's post at #1002 - especially this:What I don't like, is that those that DO exist are very heavily slanted towards flavor-secondary-win stuff. He says some flavor stuff about bars, and understanding Community jokes. Accuses liopoil of jestering, and then votes Arch over trying to mass flavor claim; later unvotes and votes for flavor stuff.
I also am getting a bad feeling about Robz - which, by extension, makes me want to vote mcmc. Because Robz is one of the players I'd expect most to push for a lurker lynch in these circumstances - yet he has carefully avoided doing so, even going so far as to vote the most active player instead.
Sorry all. Work exploded on me yesterday (yeah, Sunday). Still exploding today.
Vote leaders are lio, then mcmc, then EFHW. Given looming deadline, I think we need to focus on selecting one of those three.
I've explained why I think mcmc's lynch is informative. Out of everyone who has posted rereads on mcmc, I agree most with shraeye's post at #1002 - especially this:What I don't like, is that those that DO exist are very heavily slanted towards flavor-secondary-win stuff. He says some flavor stuff about bars, and understanding Community jokes. Accuses liopoil of jestering, and then votes Arch over trying to mass flavor claim; later unvotes and votes for flavor stuff.
I also am getting a bad feeling about Robz - which, by extension, makes me want to vote mcmc. Because Robz is one of the players I'd expect most to push for a lurker lynch in these circumstances - yet he has carefully avoided doing so, even going so far as to vote the most active player instead.
Why not vote Robz? Partly because he's not a viable candidate right now - but also because Galz suggested a ways back that Robz is a good target for town investigation. I don't know the reason for that. We should NOT press Galz about that at this point; that's a subject for a later day. And with xeiron modkilled, maybe it's a moot point. But that open question is enough for me to not want a Robz lynch today - and I think a mcmc lynch will help give us info about Robz's alignment.
Vote: mcmcsalot
Why do you most expect Robz to go after a lurker?
Chairs in particular I think is scum if all of the above is accurate (and I know I have a ton of "ifs" in there).
Why do you most expect Robz to go after a lurker?
Because Robz almost always advocates lynching lurkers.
Volt's most recent points about mcmc are good, but the initial one abuot how lynching mcmc will give us information about people's lurking stances is a bad one, I think, because mcmc doesn't represent all lurkers.
But he is the biggest lurker.
Look at it this way. Think like you are scum.
- Say one of your scumpartners is the bottom lurker. Do you advocate the general concept of a lurker lynch?
- Say the bottom lurker is town. Do you advocate the general concept of a lurker lynch?
I do see what you are saying. But think about what I posted above - say that there's a five-man scum team (that's not crazy for a 21-player game, right?). Say that 3 of them are in the bottom 9-ish posters, and some of the town in that group is ruled out by your system. There's a massively higher chance that scum will be lynched via LAL - but if town is the bottom lurker, you'll feel much better about town going LAL if you lynch the biggest lurker. I'm getting that feeling about mcmc. Chairs in particular I think is scum if all of the above is accurate (and I know I have a ton of "ifs" in there).
....The case on mcmc seems to me to be "he's lurking."
....
I mean I've completely explained what sort of scum I expect to be a lurker and how mcmc doesn't fit.
Why do you most expect Robz to go after a lurker? After all, he is one himself.
Say we lynch lio or EFHW instead. And say that person flips town. How do we use that information on Day 2? What does that tell us about other players?
....The case on mcmc seems to me to be "he's lurking."
....
I mean I've completely explained what sort of scum I expect to be a lurker and how mcmc doesn't fit.
Robz, lurking aside, what do you make of the content of mcmc's posts?
Link to my summary here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9308.msg295570#msg295570).
(Voltgloss, you know he's my IRL brother, right? That may have eluded you, since he joined the forums during your away period.)
I mean I've completely explained what sort of scum I expect to be a lurker and how mcmc doesn't fit.
Say we lynch lio or EFHW instead. And say that person flips town. How do we use that information on Day 2? What does that tell us about other players?
What we always do - we get to analyze the wagon, people's stated reasons for voting, who was the other viable wagon, what stances did people take about the lynch, etc. etc. like usual. f.ds towns may be bad at D1 (the fact this day will end at >50 pages makes me cry), but we're pretty good at the rest of it.
Now, we've had more games since then, as Robz was quick to point out - but no other huge megagames. The most salient data point remains the megagame Robz ran. The question in my mind: why is he actively resisting our applying the lessons learned from that game?
....The case on mcmc seems to me to be "he's lurking."
....
I mean I've completely explained what sort of scum I expect to be a lurker and how mcmc doesn't fit.
Robz, lurking aside, what do you make of the content of mcmc's posts?
Link to my summary here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9308.msg295570#msg295570).
nkirbit: whose lynch DO you advocate? Galz is off the table today.
(Voltgloss, you know he's my IRL brother, right? That may have eluded you, since he joined the forums during your away period.)
I know this. He joined while I was here. Why do you bring this up?I mean I've completely explained what sort of scum I expect to be a lurker and how mcmc doesn't fit.
Have you? I've seen you explain what sort of scum you expect to be a lurker; and I've seen you explain that mcmc lurks regardless of alignment. I'm not seeing how those add up to "how mcmc doesn't fit."
nkirbit: whose lynch DO you advocate? Galz is off the table today.
I'm still trying to figure it out. I don't advocate Mcmc. I also don't really think Chairs is scum.
I'm choosing between Lio and EFHW, but don't really feel good about either. TA and Galz are the two I would prefer.
I'm re-reading Lio and EFHW right now trying to pick between them.
I'm not asking about the generics. I'm asking, specifically, what conclusions you draw from lio flipping town. Or EFHW flipping town.
I'm not asking about the generics. I'm asking, specifically, what conclusions you draw from lio flipping town. Or EFHW flipping town.
Ok, I can try this, but it's going to take forever. I'd need to evaluate both options, and it would be very incomplete (wouldn't actually know the full wagons!), and require a thread re-read (that's why I always do after flips), and if that's going to be constructive I can do it but probably not until after lunch.
I'm not asking about the generics. I'm asking, specifically, what conclusions you draw from lio flipping town. Or EFHW flipping town.
Ok, I can try this, but it's going to take forever. I'd need to evaluate both options, and it would be very incomplete (wouldn't actually know the full wagons!), and require a thread re-read (that's why I always do after flips), and if that's going to be constructive I can do it but probably not until after lunch.
I'm not asking about the generics. I'm asking, specifically, what conclusions you draw from lio flipping town. Or EFHW flipping town.
Ok, I can try this, but it's going to take forever. I'd need to evaluate both options, and it would be very incomplete (wouldn't actually know the full wagons!), and require a thread re-read (that's why I always do after flips), and if that's going to be constructive I can do it but probably not until after lunch.
No. Gut reaction. Do either of their flips tell you anything, based on the analysis you've already done to date?
nkirbit: whose lynch DO you advocate? Galz is off the table today.
I'm still trying to figure it out. I don't advocate Mcmc. I also don't really think Chairs is scum.
I'm choosing between Lio and EFHW, but don't really feel good about either. TA and Galz are the two I would prefer.
I'm re-reading Lio and EFHW right now trying to pick between them.
If you think Galz is likely scum, which - lio or EFHW - do you think is more likely to be his scumpartner?
Because you can't have opinions unless Voltgloss tells you what to think?
I get the same feeling from kermit as I myself felt as caught scum in hp Mafia. vote: nkirbit
I get the same feeling from kermit as I myself felt as caught scum in hp Mafia. vote: nkirbit
I hadn't noticed this before, but this is pretty scummy, in my opinion. Chairs was never "caught" in HP... we didn't know he was the lynch until the second he was lynched, because multiple votes came in at the last second to seal Chairs' hammer. Chairs in HP and me in this game were completely different situations.
Comparing a last second lynch in one game to someone who is being called out for a "scumslip" and has been left alive for a couple of days to defend himself and saying they are the same is really bizarre... because they're completely different situations. We could have run the last hour in HP 5 times and ended up on 5 different players. Chairs was never "caught"... even when we lynched him, we weren't sure we were right.
Comparing two completely different situations in such a vague way is scummy. It's a reason to vote someone that doesn't need to be explained, and can't be questioned easily, but the two situations are completely different and trying to draw such a comparison between the two of them just comes off as trying to fabricate a reason to vote for me.
Vote: Chairs
(This post jumped out at me more than anything either EFHW or Lio said).
I get the same feeling from kermit as I myself felt as caught scum in hp Mafia. vote: nkirbit
I hadn't noticed this before, but this is pretty scummy, in my opinion. Chairs was never "caught" in HP... we didn't know he was the lynch until the second he was lynched, because multiple votes came in at the last second to seal Chairs' hammer. Chairs in HP and me in this game were completely different situations.
Comparing a last second lynch in one game to someone who is being called out for a "scumslip" and has been left alive for a couple of days to defend himself and saying they are the same is really bizarre... because they're completely different situations. We could have run the last hour in HP 5 times and ended up on 5 different players. Chairs was never "caught"... even when we lynched him, we weren't sure we were right.
Comparing two completely different situations in such a vague way is scummy. It's a reason to vote someone that doesn't need to be explained, and can't be questioned easily, but the two situations are completely different and trying to draw such a comparison between the two of them just comes off as trying to fabricate a reason to vote for me.
Vote: Chairs
(This post jumped out at me more than anything either EFHW or Lio said).
(or even somebody who's, you know, actually scummy).
I get the same feeling from kermit as I myself felt as caught scum in hp Mafia. vote: nkirbit
I hadn't noticed this before, but this is pretty scummy, in my opinion. Chairs was never "caught" in HP... we didn't know he was the lynch until the second he was lynched, because multiple votes came in at the last second to seal Chairs' hammer. Chairs in HP and me in this game were completely different situations.
Comparing a last second lynch in one game to someone who is being called out for a "scumslip" and has been left alive for a couple of days to defend himself and saying they are the same is really bizarre... because they're completely different situations. We could have run the last hour in HP 5 times and ended up on 5 different players. Chairs was never "caught"... even when we lynched him, we weren't sure we were right.
Comparing two completely different situations in such a vague way is scummy. It's a reason to vote someone that doesn't need to be explained, and can't be questioned easily, but the two situations are completely different and trying to draw such a comparison between the two of them just comes off as trying to fabricate a reason to vote for me.
Vote: Chairs
(This post jumped out at me more than anything either EFHW or Lio said).
This is very interesting. For day one this is actually rather a large strike against him.
I was basically completely null before but I'd absolutely be willing to vote chairs. (assuming someone else can confirm the HP situation)
I get the same feeling from kermit as I myself felt as caught scum in hp Mafia. vote: nkirbit
I hadn't noticed this before, but this is pretty scummy, in my opinion. Chairs was never "caught" in HP... we didn't know he was the lynch until the second he was lynched, because multiple votes came in at the last second to seal Chairs' hammer. Chairs in HP and me in this game were completely different situations.
Comparing a last second lynch in one game to someone who is being called out for a "scumslip" and has been left alive for a couple of days to defend himself and saying they are the same is really bizarre... because they're completely different situations. We could have run the last hour in HP 5 times and ended up on 5 different players. Chairs was never "caught"... even when we lynched him, we weren't sure we were right.
Comparing two completely different situations in such a vague way is scummy. It's a reason to vote someone that doesn't need to be explained, and can't be questioned easily, but the two situations are completely different and trying to draw such a comparison between the two of them just comes off as trying to fabricate a reason to vote for me.
Vote: Chairs
(This post jumped out at me more than anything either EFHW or Lio said).
This is very interesting. For day one this is actually rather a large strike against him.
I was basically completely null before but I'd absolutely be willing to vote chairs. (assuming someone else can confirm the HP situation)
(or even somebody who's, you know, actually scummy).
What has changed such that you think I am a better lynch than your own system? ie you must think I'm obvscum, the rare D1 scum that breaks the system. Do you think Voltgloss/myself are applying it correctly? Incorrectly?
(or even somebody who's, you know, actually scummy).
What has changed such that you think I am a better lynch than your own system? ie you must think I'm obvscum, the rare D1 scum that breaks the system. Do you think Voltgloss/myself are applying it correctly? Incorrectly?
Nope, I think that Voltgloss is doing the best he can with it. I also think that you're scum. The "system" is designed to catch a certain type of scum, and hopefully we do that. You're not playing to the metric that the system catches. That doesn't mean you're not scum, although nice try spinning it to say that.
(or even somebody who's, you know, actually scummy).
What has changed such that you think I am a better lynch than your own system? ie you must think I'm obvscum, the rare D1 scum that breaks the system. Do you think Voltgloss/myself are applying it correctly? Incorrectly?
Nope, I think that Voltgloss is doing the best he can with it. I also think that you're scum. The "system" is designed to catch a certain type of scum, and hopefully we do that. You're not playing to the metric that the system catches. That doesn't mean you're not scum, although nice try spinning it to say that.
Nope, not trying to spin anything! The "system" only gives people a pass for D1, anyway. In fact, you're the one who's being strange about it (by not really contributing to it/not voting based on it).
You mean I'm not sheeping our IC at every turn, waiting for him to tell me what to think so that I have no accountability of my own?? /shock
Because you can't have opinions unless Voltgloss tells you what to think?
Modern Community's "if we say it enough, it will become true" *airquotes* fact */airquotes* - Voltaire is blindly sheeping Voltgloss.
I WAS DOING MOST OF WHAT HE WAS DOING BEFORE HE WAS DOING IT AND I ASKED HIM TO START DOING IT (he's made it clear he would have anyway) AND THE ENTIRE REASON I WANTED HIM TO DO IT IS I THOUGHT IT WAS A GOOD IDEA AND HE'D BE TRUSTED MORE AS THE IC
/rant
I get the same feeling from kermit as I myself felt as caught scum in hp Mafia. vote: nkirbit
I hadn't noticed this before, but this is pretty scummy, in my opinion. Chairs was never "caught" in HP... we didn't know he was the lynch until the second he was lynched, because multiple votes came in at the last second to seal Chairs' hammer. Chairs in HP and me in this game were completely different situations.
Comparing a last second lynch in one game to someone who is being called out for a "scumslip" and has been left alive for a couple of days to defend himself and saying they are the same is really bizarre... because they're completely different situations. We could have run the last hour in HP 5 times and ended up on 5 different players. Chairs was never "caught"... even when we lynched him, we weren't sure we were right.
Comparing two completely different situations in such a vague way is scummy. It's a reason to vote someone that doesn't need to be explained, and can't be questioned easily, but the two situations are completely different and trying to draw such a comparison between the two of them just comes off as trying to fabricate a reason to vote for me.
Vote: Chairs
(This post jumped out at me more than anything either EFHW or Lio said).
I agree with this analysis. If anything, the quote that you linked would make sense had it come from Mail-Mi. But not from Chairs.
You mean I'm not sheeping our IC at every turn, waiting for him to tell me what to think so that I have no accountability of my own?? /shock
Two things:
1. Nice change of subject.
2.Because you can't have opinions unless Voltgloss tells you what to think?
Modern Community's "if we say it enough, it will become true" *airquotes* fact */airquotes* - Voltaire is blindly sheeping Voltgloss.
I WAS DOING MOST OF WHAT HE WAS DOING BEFORE HE WAS DOING IT AND I ASKED HIM TO START DOING IT (he's made it clear he would have anyway) AND THE ENTIRE REASON I WANTED HIM TO DO IT IS I THOUGHT IT WAS A GOOD IDEA AND HE'D BE TRUSTED MORE AS THE IC
/rant
I am having two thoughts about Galz. One is that I think he's scummy. The second is that I always think Galz is scummy, and he always thinks I am scummy. And by always I mean "that one time in HP".
When Galz dies later on and flips town, I want you all to know that his reads on me have been bad in the past, so the fact that he thinks I'm scum here means absolutely nothing!!!!!!!!
Regardless of alignment, I think making a fake quote - without some kind of strikethrough, "fixed that for you," or other indication that the quote is fake - is just bad form. Someone on a reread could easily think that is a REAL quote.
Boo, Galz. Your rhetorical flourish is bad and you should feel bad.
Here's one of many (many, many) examples on Voltaire:
"Nobody supported me with Robz, but I see others like EFHW? Ok, let's vote her. If I can't get that lynch, I'll do liopoil." (I'll dig up the full quote in just a minute)
This was posted:
A) Less than 24 hours after his vote on Robz
B) Over the weekend when there was very little activity
C) After others had started to build cases on EFHW, but nobody had actually felt them strong enough to vote (Voltaire was the first)
He's jumping from wagon to wagon, has no conviction in his own reads, and wants to make sure he's got a say in where the lynch goes. He's much more interested in directing (and has been all game) than actually scum hunting. As long as we lynch someone he's ok with, it's all good.
He's constantly sheeped the IC. Hid behind him at every turn. Supported and directed where Voltgloss takes his thoughts. The list goes on and on.
Mega-post time!
The Voltgloss 6
I re-read them. Here are my thoughts.
- chairs - He said he was ok with my lynch pool when I posted my first one. It contained the following matches with Voltgloss's list: Robz, chairs, EFHW. I feel like that's worth "not forgetting". He's certainly not been super helpful, and has jumped his vote around a lot. He's fished for flavor information (but this also apparently relates to his secondary win-con). I can see this two ways. Either scum wouldn't be so careless and so he is town, or chairs is a scum PR who needs flavor information to be effective. I would vote for chairs but he is not my favorite of this list.
- EFHW - Very little here. I can bias myself to read his posts as scum easily positioning on various wagons, or town who does not have strong convictions. But I could be very happy with a vote here.
- Robz888 - Lurked for ages. Said obvious stuff about claiming. Voted nkirbit for many reasons (including the slip). Changed to me after Voltgloss referring to the slip. Robz, what about your other points on nkirbit (the frustration)? Could happily vote Robz here.
- sudgy - I am actually leaning town here, just because sudgy is saying some pretty crazy things and why would scum say those things? Also, sudgy has an "always scummy" rep and I could see that here. I would sadly vote here.
- WalrusMcFishSr - he should not be here. See below.
- mcmcsalot - There's, like, nothing here. He wanted to lynch both Galz and nkirbit. Does scum lurk this much? I actually lean "no", especially with all the talk about lurking we've been doing.
So out of all of those, Vote: Robz is my preferred choice (oh god this makes me look so OMGUSy :(), then EFHW. I might put some off-wagon people here before chairs, mcmc, or sudgy.
Walrus
Why he shouldn't be on this list: his posts are massively high in content, reads, positions, and the like. And I personally think he's been scumhunting. I urge everyone, including Voltgloss, to re-read his posts and see how the content of his posts makes him a poor D1 lynch.
I'll look at the "small four" later (maybe not tonight), and if anyone wants a serious reply to Robz's case I can give that too.
No-one has joined me in voicing suspicion of Robz, so unvote. I see some people voicing suspicion for EFHW, so I will vote: EFHW in hopes that starts something.
mcmc is not my preferred lynch today so I will hold off there for now. I could go for lio after EFHW if needed.
Regardless of alignment, I think making a fake quote - without some kind of strikethrough, "fixed that for you," or other indication that the quote is fake - is just bad form. Someone on a reread could easily think that is a REAL quote.
Boo, Galz. Your rhetorical flourish is bad and you should feel bad.
I will be busy this weekend, like all of us. I will be sure to check in on the thread twice a day (morning and night) and I will move my vote to one of my/Voltgloss's other candidates if it's clear Robz will not be a viable lynch at that point.
As I said earlier multiple times, I think it is hard to catch scum on D1. We are trying to win, not lynch scum as soon as we can.
I agree with you. Voltgloss likely agrees with you. Do you really think it's better to lynch town? I mean, what do you propose? I support Voltgloss's reasoning so far. I mean, I still need to look at that smaller pool, but it contains people within my own.
Do you not see how Voltgloss's approach (via Galz) [and I've been trying it too all day, with less success] is an attempt to deal with the fact that it's hard to catch scum D1?
Robz, Galz, I would feel so much better about your argument if you weren't exaggerating it.
Yes, Voltaire has been more deferential to me than I'd like. But I don't think it's fair to characterize him as having "constantly sheeped" me, "hid behind [me] at every turn," or "directed where take[ my] thoughts."
For example: Voltaire's post about "the Voltgloss 6" is unfortunately named, but (1) he disagrees wholeheartedly with 1 of those 6 - Walrus; and (2) he made clear he was going to look at the "small 4" later as well. And he did.
Do you have other cites that I've missed? Real cites, not made-up ones.
I still maintain that f.ds does d1 wrong.
You can't "make a case" worth beans against scum unless they honestly 'slip'.
A) "Contradictions" aren't scummy. Town changes their mind and their opinion MUCH more than scum.
B) Scum can feed distrust and suspicion. They can fan the flames, or play the buddy game. Scum rarely ever stays noncommittal. If there's an issue, they have a stance on it. Which side is up to them.
C) Multiplayer interactions. Focus on them. "IF 'X' THEN 'Y'" are far more valuable than "I'm sure 'X' is true and bias everything towards that".
Every town player there right now is trying too hard to finger scum. To catch them. That won't work d1. Flip it around. Don't look for that one good case for somebody being scum, look for reasons to eliminate people. Give them reasons to be town - or at least a reason not to lynch. Archetype, for example, should be off the table. PoE down based on not who's "most likely" to be scum, but instead by eliminating those "less likely" to be scum.
Finding scum needs real information. You can't have that d1. D1 is a different animal and needs to be treated with different guiding principles. Town(s) will continue to fail because they think they can catch scum when they can't. D1 lynches are FAR, FAR below average for hitting scum for a reason.
The trick is making reasonable arguments for certain people (Arch, here) to be removed from lynch candidacy. Arguments that most agree on. I wouldn't lynch TA, Arch, Yuma or (I think) Sudgy in this game. Post count alone gets them a d1 pass from me. Can scum post a lot? Yes, but it's harder. And while one might be scum, there's a very, very low likelihood that two are. So look elsewhere.
But TA is being pushed for "being scummy". People want a d1 case, and that's what you get. It's the wrong way to find scum d1.
This is what I'm talkin' about. 8)
I am good with Voltgloss's pool. It does not contain two players in my own pool (Dsell and Eevee) but I do not feel so strongly about them compared to others that I would fight to have them included. Voltgloss's pool does contain some players (Walrus, AHoppy) I think should be off the table. It also includes some players right on the border (Archetype, lio), but there's going to be differences of opinion here.
That leaves Robz, chairs, shraeye, mcmc, sudgy, and EFHW for me.
Curious for Voltgloss's take on Galz and nkirbit.
Galz: you are doing the exact opposite of the below and I want to know why. You gave an explanation before but it didn't make sense.Quote from: Galzria, when he was a modI still maintain that f.ds does d1 wrong.
You can't "make a case" worth beans against scum unless they honestly 'slip'.
A) "Contradictions" aren't scummy. Town changes their mind and their opinion MUCH more than scum.
B) Scum can feed distrust and suspicion. They can fan the flames, or play the buddy game. Scum rarely ever stays noncommittal. If there's an issue, they have a stance on it. Which side is up to them.
C) Multiplayer interactions. Focus on them. "IF 'X' THEN 'Y'" are far more valuable than "I'm sure 'X' is true and bias everything towards that".
Every town player there right now is trying too hard to finger scum. To catch them. That won't work d1. Flip it around. Don't look for that one good case for somebody being scum, look for reasons to eliminate people. Give them reasons to be town - or at least a reason not to lynch. Archetype, for example, should be off the table. PoE down based on not who's "most likely" to be scum, but instead by eliminating those "less likely" to be scum.
Finding scum needs real information. You can't have that d1. D1 is a different animal and needs to be treated with different guiding principles. Town(s) will continue to fail because they think they can catch scum when they can't. D1 lynches are FAR, FAR below average for hitting scum for a reason.
The trick is making reasonable arguments for certain people (Arch, here) to be removed from lynch candidacy. Arguments that most agree on. I wouldn't lynch TA, Arch, Yuma or (I think) Sudgy in this game. Post count alone gets them a d1 pass from me. Can scum post a lot? Yes, but it's harder. And while one might be scum, there's a very, very low likelihood that two are. So look elsewhere.
But TA is being pushed for "being scummy". People want a d1 case, and that's what you get. It's the wrong way to find scum d1.
Galz, do you think Eevee is scum?
Robz, Galz, I would feel so much better about your argument if you weren't exaggerating it.
Yes, Voltaire has been more deferential to me than I'd like. But I don't think it's fair to characterize him as having "constantly sheeped" me, "hid behind [me] at every turn," or "directed where take[ my] thoughts."
For example: Voltaire's post about "the Voltgloss 6" is unfortunately named, but (1) he disagrees wholeheartedly with 1 of those 6 - Walrus; and (2) he made clear he was going to look at the "small 4" later as well. And he did.
Do you have other cites that I've missed? Real cites, not made-up ones.
As of the most recent vote count, the following players are voting for non-IC approved targets: nkirbit, bocaJ, mcmc, sudgy, liopoil (and Voltgloss, but I'm certain he'll show up to vote). Now, I understand the whole "don't blindly sheep the IC" thing, but nobody has made a case compelling enough to overrule Voltgloss and send a wave of support from the rest of the town onto their other lynches. At this point, with the day ending in less than 12 hours, these players are voting for non-viable candidates and actively hindering us getting the best lynch through (assuming any of these players are town, and have an opinion about the actual vote-getters). I find this quite anti-town, and encourage them to put their vote somewhere where it will be useful.
Voltgloss, what is your take on this sort of thing? In my opinion, they should be included in the pool if we're operating under the assumption that nkirbit is town. Or do you think that town is more likely to make this sort of statement?
As I said earlier multiple times, I think it is hard to catch scum on D1. We are trying to win, not lynch scum as soon as we can.
I agree with you. Voltgloss likely agrees with you. Do you really think it's better to lynch town? I mean, what do you propose? I support Voltgloss's reasoning so far. I mean, I still need to look at that smaller pool, but it contains people within my own.
Do you not see how Voltgloss's approach (via Galz) [and I've been trying it too all day, with less success] is an attempt to deal with the fact that it's hard to catch scum D1?
*fistpump* Now this is what I was talking about - exactly what I was hoping for from our IC.Funny how some positive feedback makes you more excited about a game!
:D
I'm sure Voltgloss is working on his next post as we speak. I want to go back and see who said negative stuff about nkirbit but didn't vote for him (this group does include me, in all fairness. Because honestly, I won't know what I think about nkirbit until I see a flip).
This is what I'm talkin' about. 8)
I am good with Voltgloss's pool. It does not contain two players in my own pool (Dsell and Eevee) but I do not feel so strongly about them compared to others that I would fight to have them included. Voltgloss's pool does contain some players (Walrus, AHoppy) I think should be off the table. It also includes some players right on the border (Archetype, lio), but there's going to be differences of opinion here.
That leaves Robz, chairs, shraeye, mcmc, sudgy, and EFHW for me.
Curious for Voltgloss's take on Galz and nkirbit.
It is the correct move to lynch someone D1 (especially in a non RMM game). What I found weird was how you worded it and said that nkirbit is the only available lynch when he really isn't.
To be fair to Walrus nkirbit's wagon is huge compared to everyone else.
Voltgloss, you may need to steer us a bit in our lynch pool like Galz did in HP (by taking candidates off the table). I don't see anything happening to get us to focus otherwise. I'm viewed as too scummy for anyone to take my lynch pools seriously.
I simply don't want them to be forgotten. On nkirbit's wagon, I'd only vote for Robz, mcmc, or chairs.
Better: I simply don't want them to be forgotten, and it's clear Voltgloss will be looking hard at those who actually voted.
Regardless of alignment, I think making a fake quote - without some kind of strikethrough, "fixed that for you," or other indication that the quote is fake - is just bad form. Someone on a reread could easily think that is a REAL quote.
Boo, Galz. Your rhetorical flourish is bad and you should feel bad.
Only if they're skimming back and not actually re-reading. And if that's the case, then I don't feel bad at all. They deserve to misread it.
Heh, I'd have a huge townread on Voltgloss now... too bad he is already an IC!
I agree with his list, and am actually genuinely pleased he has found my contributions useful this far. I think this positive feedback even gave me a boost of morale that'll make me reread some of the candidates in the lynching pool. Ok with having my vote on sudgy for the time being though. I'll be around the following 4-5 hours, hopefully squeezing in a reread or two at some point too.
Funny how some positive feedback makes you more excited about a game!
The nkirbit lynch looked likely to me until Voltgloss stepped in.
Well, in Voltaire's defence, I've felt pretty much the same way. Not because it's the IC posting it, but because the logic seems sound and I agree with it AND it's coming from someone who I know isn't deceiving me and others know they can trust too. Him saying something I think is way better than me saying it as the town is way more likely to listen to him.
These are the quotes of Eevee's that made me ask Galz if he thinks Eevee is scum.Heh, I'd have a huge townread on Voltgloss now... too bad he is already an IC!
I agree with his list, and am actually genuinely pleased he has found my contributions useful this far. I think this positive feedback even gave me a boost of morale that'll make me reread some of the candidates in the lynching pool. Ok with having my vote on sudgy for the time being though. I'll be around the following 4-5 hours, hopefully squeezing in a reread or two at some point too.Funny how some positive feedback makes you more excited about a game!The nkirbit lynch looked likely to me until Voltgloss stepped in.
These are the quotes of Eevee's that made me ask Galz if he thinks Eevee is scum.Heh, I'd have a huge townread on Voltgloss now... too bad he is already an IC!
I agree with his list, and am actually genuinely pleased he has found my contributions useful this far. I think this positive feedback even gave me a boost of morale that'll make me reread some of the candidates in the lynching pool. Ok with having my vote on sudgy for the time being though. I'll be around the following 4-5 hours, hopefully squeezing in a reread or two at some point too.Funny how some positive feedback makes you more excited about a game!The nkirbit lynch looked likely to me until Voltgloss stepped in.
nkirbit had what, 8 votes at the high point? Wouldn't that mean his lynch was looking somewha likely?
Perhaps I'm feeling a little OMGUS here, but I'm kind of intrigued that when we're building wagons in the last 24 hours on lio, mcmc, or efhw, suddenly nkirbit decides it's valuable to bring up my statement re: HP, when it wasn't worth bringing up before. Have we managed to wagon onto scum, and you're trying to throw us off your buddy? This just seems like a discussion for D2 if you're Town, so we have a flip to judge me off of, and not something to muddle the works of a large game in the last vestiges of D1.
PPE againx3:
...that's... actually a pretty compelling argument, Robz. Enough to make me vote: voltaire, actually.
Well, yeah, I think our disagreement there is purely semantic then. There were no competing wagons, this one guy had 8 votes on him and there were only a couple of days until the actual hard deadline. The nkirbit lynch looked likely to me!nkirbit had what, 8 votes at the high point? Wouldn't that mean his lynch was looking somewha likely?
Somewhat likely and likely are very different! Somewhat likely, sure. There are 20 potential voters though, big wagon number 1 tends to fizzle rather than go through, there was still a lot of time left, etc. I would say it was not particularly likely, but the whole "whoever has the most votes at deadline" thing mitigates that, sinc ehe doesnt need to actually crack the lynch mark.
Galz: you are doing the exact opposite of the below and I want to know why. You gave an explanation before but it didn't make sense.
Galz: you are doing the exact opposite of the below and I want to know why. You gave an explanation before but it didn't make sense.
Thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis.
If it's just for later, why are we discussing it now? Shouldn't that be something to talk about tomorrow, shouldn't we be more concerned whom we want to lynch now?
Galz: you are doing the exact opposite of the below and I want to know why. You gave an explanation before but it didn't make sense.
Thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis.
...is going to be the next exhibit cited by Robz and Galz as to why you should be lynched for sheeping me.
And the hell of it is, maybe they're right. I know that I, as scum in LOTR 2, took steps to stay on IC Twistedarcher's good side as much as possible.
On the other hand, maybe they're pushing a mislynch. I don't know! We need more information, which is why I don't like lynching you OR Robz OR Galz on Day 1.
I did feel caught as scum in HP, long before the vote was ultimately decided. I felt that it was impossible for me to adequately defend myself so as to not have the suspicion thrown off of me - perhaps I could have saved myself D1, but it looked highly unlikely I'd make it to the end. I guess from a Town perspective it doesn't look that way, but I was very demoralized about three-quarters of the way through D1 of HP as I was certain I'd been had.
Can someone who was in HP opine on whether chairs' explanation holds water? Was there an epic plan made by Galzria that guaranteed the exposure and lynch of the scumteam over the course of the next several days?
I.e.: those finding chairs scummy have pointed out that chairs' lynch was almost accidental on Day 1. chairs' response is that "it looked highly unlikely [he]'d make it to the end." In the context of that game, does this make sense?
His lynch day 1 was almost accidental, but I understand he might have felt that he wasn't going to survive until the end still.I did feel caught as scum in HP, long before the vote was ultimately decided. I felt that it was impossible for me to adequately defend myself so as to not have the suspicion thrown off of me - perhaps I could have saved myself D1, but it looked highly unlikely I'd make it to the end. I guess from a Town perspective it doesn't look that way, but I was very demoralized about three-quarters of the way through D1 of HP as I was certain I'd been had.
Can someone who was in HP opine on whether chairs' explanation holds water? Was there an epic plan made by Galzria that guaranteed the exposure and lynch of the scumteam over the course of the next several days?
I.e.: those finding chairs scummy have pointed out that chairs' lynch was almost accidental on Day 1. chairs' response is that "it looked highly unlikely [he]'d make it to the end." In the context of that game, does this make sense?
Saw something in my reread that leads me to ask:okay.
liopoil, please showclaim.
Actually, vote: chairs
Lio is scummy but a more nebulous kind of scummy.
Chairs' statement was actual scummy because those do not seem like comparable situations.
This vote flips the default lynch from liopoil to mcmc, right? Are you conscious of the fact that that's what you are doing?
I much prefer lio to mcmc.
I did feel caught as scum in HP, long before the vote was ultimately decided. I felt that it was impossible for me to adequately defend myselfDo you feel caught right now?
So voltgloss, why did you ask me to showclaim?
I did feel caught as scum in HP, long before the vote was ultimately decided. I felt that it was impossible for me to adequately defend myselfDo you feel caught right now?
I have read all the posts since my post this morning (was in a rush then), am commenting on stuff now and hopefully will figure out who scum is afterwards!
So voltgloss, why did you ask me to showclaim?
Because you claimed you had to ask ash what the "study group" meant. That makes sense for a Modern Family town player, but not for a Community town player. If you had just now claimed Community, I'd be voting you.
yeah, I have not watched either show. Or do you think that would be part of the flavor in my PM? Anyway, lucky me that I'm part of modern family.So voltgloss, why did you ask me to showclaim?
Because you claimed you had to ask ash what the "study group" meant. That makes sense for a Modern Family town player, but not for a Community town player. If you had just now claimed Community, I'd be voting you.
Actually, vote: chairs
Lio is scummy but a more nebulous kind of scummy.
Chairs' statement was actual scummy because those do not seem like comparable situations.
This vote flips the default lynch from liopoil to mcmc, right? Are you conscious of the fact that that's what you are doing?
I much prefer lio to mcmc.
Note that, for all his sheeping and/or alleged sheeping, Voltaire is not actually voting with me.
Dsell, what do you think about chairs' response and the post EFHW linked?
I don't quite understand how people can firmly oppose lynching mcmc. What has he done that makes him seem towny?
I reread chairs as well, we disagree on a bunch of issues but there are some small nuggets that seem towny. I think I prefer mcmc over chairs over liopoil. Are these the viable lynches, or should I reread someone else too?
I don't quite understand how people can firmly oppose lynching mcmc. What has he done that makes him seem towny?
I reread chairs as well, we disagree on a bunch of issues but there are some small nuggets that seem towny. I think I prefer mcmc over chairs over liopoil. Are these the viable lynches, or should I reread someone else too?
Eevee, you should reread EFHW as well if you haven't already.
Robz, is mcmc going to be showing up here before deadline?
I don't firmly oppose a mcmc lynch. Just think lio is a better choice, and that there are even better choices not being considered.
I don't firmly oppose a mcmc lynch. Just think lio is a better choice, and that there are even better choices not being considered.
Other than Voltaire, what choices do you have in mind?
So voltgloss, why did you ask me to showclaim?
Because you claimed you had to ask ash what the "study group" meant. That makes sense for a Modern Family town player, but not for a Community town player. If you had just now claimed Community, I'd be voting you.
If we want to lynch a lurker, I don't think mcmc is the best choice. I would prefer faust, who seems to fit newbie lurker to me. Archetpye and mail-mi have both made zero contributions that I can remember, so they are actually beyond the amount of expected lurking.
robz, faust has over 50 posts.
If we want to lynch a lurker, I don't think mcmc is the best choice. I would prefer faust, who seems to fit newbie lurker to me. Archetpye and mail-mi have both made zero contributions that I can remember, so they are actually beyond the amount of expected lurking.
Have you re-read them/other's posts on them? Except for Archetype, I have strong town reads on them.Despite the low post counts,I think they are bad lynches today.
Archetpye and mail-mi have both made zero contributions that I can remember, so they are actually beyond the amount of expected lurking.
Archetpye and mail-mi have both made zero contributions that I can remember, so they are actually beyond the amount of expected lurking.
I don't know what this means. Do you think Arch and mail-mi are scummy for lurking? Or lurking so much they loop back around into being town?
robz, faust has over 50 posts.
And there's the power of suggestion, right there.If we want to lynch a lurker, I don't think mcmc is the best choice. I would prefer faust, who seems to fit newbie lurker to me. Archetpye and mail-mi have both made zero contributions that I can remember, so they are actually beyond the amount of expected lurking.
Have you re-read them/other's posts on them? Except for Archetype, I have strong town reads on them.Despite the low post counts,I think they are bad lynches today.
I don't quite understand how people can firmly oppose lynching mcmc. What has he done that makes him seem towny?
I reread chairs as well, we disagree on a bunch of issues but there are some small nuggets that seem towny. I think I prefer mcmc over chairs over liopoil. Are these the viable lynches, or should I reread someone else too?
Okay Im wrong. Where is the post count.
Okay Im wrong. Where is the post count.
It's the list with boldfaces and strikeouts that you voted liopoil for preparing.
mcmc was quick to reread and.. well, i don't agree with a single thing he has done this far. Like, disagreeing with me obviously doesn't make him autoscum, but he read Galzria completely different from me and also became interested in the nkirbit lynch in a way I deem opportunistic and scummy. Also, he hasn't done anything at all! The only way I can see someone reading him as towny is if they think he'd make more time to post if he was scum.
Prefer mcmc over liopoil.
One of the main points I have against efhw is that I remember literally nothing from her before the call to lynch lurkers. As soon as we moved towards lurkers, she made more of an effort to post to the point where she's now no longer considered a lurker. I also agree with lios interpretation of her case.
I will be home in a few hours and online for deadlines but I'm afraid I can't really do much while I'm at work -- sorry for not pulling my weight. My preference is efhw > chairs > mcmc > lio out of the people discussed today.
it's the most recent one.Okay Im wrong. Where is the post count.
It's the list with boldfaces and strikeouts that you voted liopoil for preparing.
Okay but that was a while ago now.
Okay Im wrong. Where is the post count.
It's the list with boldfaces and strikeouts that you voted liopoil for preparing.
Okay but that was a while ago now.
In both of my games (blitz and KCGM) mcmc was scum and lurked. I think he was genuinely busy though, and would have lurked as town too...mcmc was quick to reread and.. well, i don't agree with a single thing he has done this far. Like, disagreeing with me obviously doesn't make him autoscum, but he read Galzria completely different from me and also became interested in the nkirbit lynch in a way I deem opportunistic and scummy. Also, he hasn't done anything at all! The only way I can see someone reading him as towny is if they think he'd make more time to post if he was scum.
Prefer mcmc over liopoil.
Was anyone in this game in the Monty Python game? He was scum there, and hardly posted at all. Was it different from here?
mcmc was quick to reread and.. well, i don't agree with a single thing he has done this far. Like, disagreeing with me obviously doesn't make him autoscum, but he read Galzria completely different from me and also became interested in the nkirbit lynch in a way I deem opportunistic and scummy. Also, he hasn't done anything at all! The only way I can see someone reading him as towny is if they think he'd make more time to post if he was scum.
Prefer mcmc over liopoil.
Was anyone in this game in the Monty Python game? He was scum there, and hardly posted at all. Was it different from here?
Thoughts on lio:- It wasn't necessarily a "nice gesture" is that I would be kinda frustrated if a newbie town quickhammered the town cop and then we lynched them the next day and lost. I said it to promote my own chance of winning :P. Oh, and if I was coaching scumbuddies, why wouldn't I just tell them that stuff in our QT on N0? and you're assuming that I have scumbuddies who are new if I am scum, which is not necessarily the case even if I am scum.
-Post #247 has a lot of things for newbies, which is pretty good advice (don't quickhammer, don't claim VT) but those could also easily be warnings to hus scum teammates who may be new. This is mafia, I have to suspect everything, and not trust anyone. So, while this could just be a really nice gesture and actually helpful, I still give it scum cred.
-Lio starts the secondary wincon claiming with his claiming he wants someone to accuse him of being jester. After his warning to newbies, he kickstarts the claiming (as far as I remember. I'm just looking at lio posts and I'm not sure if anyone has claimed yet at this point, so for now, unless someone proves me wrong, he gets scum points for this).
-Flavor claiming: Generally, I would say claiming early is dumb. Even just flavor claiming. We don't know how important flavor is. It's eaither really distracting because it has nothing to do with the game, or it is super important becuase it outs PRs. Also, his backtrack looks to me like "whoops, sorry guys my big mistake. But now my scum buddies can see this information, so go look it up!" So lots of scum cred here
-Anti-galz claim: His arguments make sense, especially considering yuma in mean girls. It would be a pretty fantastic fake claim, which also happened in mean girls. So, I think lio is right to be suspicious. I am inclined to believe galz, but that's more gut feeling than anything. Town cred for lio
-Regarding nkirbit: It would have been an easy wagon to jump on as scum. He didn't. Slight town
-Regarding EFHW: I think EFHW's case is fine, especially for D1. We don't have a ton to go on and it is a fine case. Lio could be scum trying to make others outright discount EFHW's case. I re-read on my own, not remembering EFHW's case and came to similar conclusions (see above). So have some scum ponts.
PPE: I like my vote even more now since Lio basically said he doesn't want to throw a vote down until closer to the deadline. That feels sketchy to me. Why not just get your vote out there and get some reactions or something? Make a case on someone, not just jump on the wagon with the most votes/the one that will make you look the least suspicious near the end.
Okay Im wrong. Where is the post count.
It's the list with boldfaces and strikeouts that you voted liopoil for preparing.
Okay but that was a while ago now.
Yeah, faust has only had 3 posts since then, whereas people on the lower end have not even spoken since then.
But no he's not a lurker. I don't know what strikes me as off about him then. I can't remember anything he's said.
Question for the mods:Day 1 will last seven days. If a majority lynch is not reached by the deadline, the player with the most votes will be lynched. If there is a tie, the player to first reach L-1 will be lynched. No Lynch is not specifically disallowed, but would require a vote to occur.
If there is a tie at deadline, and neither player is at L-1, will the player to first reach the count at which they are tied be the one who is lynched?
I assume that's the case but want to confirm. Thanks.
I was, he similarly did nothing all through day 1 there. I'm sure there are examples of him being like this as town too though.mcmc was quick to reread and.. well, i don't agree with a single thing he has done this far. Like, disagreeing with me obviously doesn't make him autoscum, but he read Galzria completely different from me and also became interested in the nkirbit lynch in a way I deem opportunistic and scummy. Also, he hasn't done anything at all! The only way I can see someone reading him as towny is if they think he'd make more time to post if he was scum.
Prefer mcmc over liopoil.
Was anyone in this game in the Monty Python game? He was scum there, and hardly posted at all. Was it different from here?
Well, it doesn't really matter who's on the chopping block right now. by deadline a lot of people will move their votes to whoever the main 2-3 candidates are, and also remember that I will eventually put my vote somewhere, and it won't be on myself, and the same is probably true for mcmc. (if he shows up.)Actually, vote: chairs
Lio is scummy but a more nebulous kind of scummy.
Chairs' statement was actual scummy because those do not seem like comparable situations.
This vote flips the default lynch from liopoil to mcmc, right? Are you conscious of the fact that that's what you are doing?
I much prefer lio to mcmc.
Ugh, you are right, that wasn't my intent. Back to vote: Liopoil. If there was enough interest for a chairs lynch, though I would move my vote there.
I was, he similarly did nothing all through day 1 there. I'm sure there are examples of him being like this as town too though.mcmc was quick to reread and.. well, i don't agree with a single thing he has done this far. Like, disagreeing with me obviously doesn't make him autoscum, but he read Galzria completely different from me and also became interested in the nkirbit lynch in a way I deem opportunistic and scummy. Also, he hasn't done anything at all! The only way I can see someone reading him as towny is if they think he'd make more time to post if he was scum.
Prefer mcmc over liopoil.
Was anyone in this game in the Monty Python game? He was scum there, and hardly posted at all. Was it different from here?
question for voltgloss: When would you like people to claim?
Robz, would you classify Arch as a player who is more prone to lurking Day 1 when scum?
Robz, would you classify Arch as a player who is more prone to lurking Day 1 when scum?
Maybe.
Robz, would you classify Arch as a player who is more prone to lurking Day 1 when scum?
Maybe.
He lurked in new mafia and was the d1 lynch as town.
/in with serious reservations about a game of this size. If I end up lurking I will not feel guilty about it.
So, by day 3, we start "normal" lynch rules. I'm interpreting this to mean that by D3, would should be at about a normal game size (~13). With 2 lynches, that's 6 people who need to die N1 and N2. Assuming that we're supposed to have roughly 13 by the start of D3, that's 3 NKs per night. 15 by D3 if there's 2 NKs/night. 17 if there's 1 NK/night, but that seems a little high to start normal lynch rules, so I'm going to be assuming there's at least 2 scum factions / SKs out there.
This seems like decent thinking as long as we don't let it become fact.Flavor needs more modern family.
Hey everyone!
This!
Voltgloss, lead us home.
vote: WalrusMcFishSr because you don't have a shorter nickname yet.
vote: bocaJ because he's new, and scum.Softclaim Cop?
vote: Archetype
Why would you out something you think might be a softclaim?
This.
However: vote: Voltaire.
The mistake Arch made (and yes, it's a mistake) isn't one made by scum. Why bother? If he's RIGHT, it decreases the chances the chance the "cop" will actually get lynched. And if he's right, he could tell his scummates at night without bothering to draw attention to himself. It's an unnecessary situation for him. Scum tend to look for breadcrumbs silently, not publicly.
BUT, you're absolutely right that it's a mistake. And it's EASY for scum to jump on very real mistakes to push mislynches. Your point is valid, and that gives you a greater chance of being scum than Arch in my experience.
Yes, this is right, because it's cop specifically. I realized this and came back online to unvote.
vote: Eevee for vowels then. Mild town read on Archetype as pointed out by Galz. No points for Galz because clever.
I have no idea how this quote from Eevee is an agreement with anything Ive said.To create interactions to get the game going, I like to participate in the random voting stage by voting for someone who often signals his towniness well to me but hasn't managed to so yet.Really? In context it just looks like you're agreeing with shraeye.
It's not - that's my point. Eevee said he liked your post, voted for TA, and then later said he was voting for TA for different reasons than you. That wasn't communicated at all in Eevee's post where he actually voted - the obvious conclusion one would draw, prior to his later explanation, is that he was (intentionally) sheeping your reasons.
unvote.
So far I don't want to lynch TA, faust, or Walrus (or Voltgloss obviously) today. Maybe more people than that, I'd need to do a re-read but I'm not "ready" for that yet.
We must have very different playstyles because there is nobody I would say I "don't want to lynch" because I think they're townie seeming yet... I mean, there are several people I don't want to lynch because I don't suspect them and lynching a proven strong player for no reason is stupid. But that goes without saying.
You really have substantive enough town reads that you can already say you would be opposed to lynching these guys today?
Yes, this is a "different playstyles" thing. See the recently-completed KCGM game for me using this (quite successfully!) there. Basically anyone who is going to be easier to read (usually because they're a high poster) at a later day isn't a good D1 lynch. All this assumes scum isn't obvscum D1 (this is not always, but almost always, true).
75% of the time, this amounts to the same thing as lynch all lurkers.
...yeah. Does anybody know where my pen is?
Here, take mine.
(Note that I am only doing this because I have a guess that this is pro-town. Overall, I think shooting for our 2nd wincons is going to detract from the game. And scum most likely benefit from this sort of thing. But I've been researching Community and think something, so in this one instance...)
Or it could be the secondary wincons for the two players - whichever bar wins, that player gets a secondary win.
I want to second that we should NOT TALK ABOUT SECONDARY WIN-CONS. I know some are out of the bag. That should be all. Why? Because MY secondary win-con implies it could be bad for them to be public. That's me reading into it, and I could be wrong, but I truly think that mass-claiming these is bad (that could change on a later day, but for now, no more). Everyone seems to be stopping this so that's good, but I want to head off any further talk along these lines.
Sudgy, I do NOT have your pen. I never had your pen. This was a mistake on my part - I thought you could only self-vote until someone gave you a pen, but then I saw the vote count showing you'd voted for lio. Chalk it up as a moment where I thought it might be pro-town to lie.
I believe Galz's claim for the moment. I want to work through situations where he as scum would find claiming that advantageous, but I can't think of any at the moment.
Sudgy, I do NOT have your pen. I never had your pen. This was a mistake on my part - I thought you could only self-vote until someone gave you a pen, but then I saw the vote count showing you'd voted for lio. Chalk it up as a moment where I thought it might be pro-town to lie.
Just finished a re-read and this was dumber than I thought. sudgy also voted for shraeye.
After that re-read, my lynch pool is actually much smaller, which makes me very happy. It's currently
Eevee
Robz
mail-mi
chairs
shraeye
EFHW
nkirbit
Dsell
bocaJ
xeiron
which actually has me feeling pretty great! I recommend this as our lynch pool today barring further developments. Here's why I eliminated people:
Voltgloss - IC
TA - posting lots, if scum will leave clues
Galzria - the claim has bought him the day, basically. Still trying to sort through this though.
Voltaire - me!
mcmc - has given me strong town vibes
sudgy - posting lots, if scum will leave clues
Walrus - has given me strong town vibes
AHoppy - has given me strong town vibes
Archetype - has given me strong town vibes
faust - posting lots, if scum will leave clues AND has given me a town vibe
liopoil - posting lots, if scum will leave clues ALTHOUGH has given me a scum vibeSudgy, I do NOT have your pen. I never had your pen. This was a mistake on my part - I thought you could only self-vote until someone gave you a pen, but then I saw the vote count showing you'd voted for lio. Chalk it up as a moment where I thought it might be pro-town to lie.
:(
...Anybody else?
If you are simply playing to your secondary win con, I think you should stop.
I have a suspicion regarding alignments that's based on which show your character is on. It's pretty weak, right now, but if we claim D1 then we can out anybody fakeclaiming a show they're not part of. It's also not providing a ton of information to scum, unless their wincon is to kill off the entirety of a show (which I don't suspect it is).
This is a horrible idea because flavor matters. It's clearly tied to role(s). We've half-claimed to our detriment already. This isn't RMM. No more claiming until we have a focused, specific, reason to do so with demonstrable benefits.
My thoughts on this day are out there. Right now I'm intending on holding back until otherVolt has a chance to steer us however he wants.
Right now I'm intending on holding back until otherVolt has a chance to steer us however he wants.
Nobody do this.
As many IC's before me have stated, I have a mathematically lower chance of pinpointing scum than all the rest of the town players in the game. I will step in with respect to things like town plans, where it's important to have a 100% town player calling the shots. And I will definitely be giving my reads. But no town players should be "holding back" waiting for me to "steer" them.
Not caught up on the thread yet, but you LEFT OUT THE PART where I said I'd already made all the contributions I could up to that point. Anything else (barring further events) would be clutter.
Um, yes it is. Look at the first quote in the quote chain you pulled up:I wish you could hear me laughing right now! The quoted post is part of the very same nkirbit/study group situation!
PPE: Ugh it is so hard to get posts through right now
No it's not. I just went back and checked.I am not going to vote for nkirbit over this but I am also never going to forget it.
Wow, seriously?
"I don't think I can mislynch Nkirbit for this, but if that wagon gets going, you betcha I'm going to bring it up"
You know what I am? Willing to vote: Dsell. My combo list idea is dumb, especially because I now have town reads on mail-mi and chairs due to the nkirbit/study group situation, and xeiron's meta. Going back to the first list for now.
Yes that's the point.
I don't understand what you're saying. What is your point? The post IS part of the same situation, and you're saying it's not. Mail-mi pointed it out.
You could also phrase it that I'm sheeping TA that you're trying to be on both sides of an nkirbit lynch. But now I see xeiron's latest point, which is pretty darn good too. Honestly this is now moving too fast for me and I don't know what to think.
Also shraeye's wagon evaporated after he lurked. That is best-case scenario for scum. I could go back to voting there too.
This exchange by Voltaire is RIDICULOUSLY scummy. It basically boils down to the following:
Voltaire: Look at this point!
Dsell: That point is invalid by the very post you linked (but cut down)
Voltaire: No it isn't!
Dsell: Yes, it is. Go look.
Voltaire: That's the point!
Dsell: .... wha? Huh? What is the point?
Voltaire: .... Uhh, hey let's talk about Shraeye!
Vote: Voltaire (I was already there from much earlier, wasn't I?)
That whole series makes me feel like he's scum unable to defend clearly his own accusations, and so aimed to change the subject.
I explained myself to the best of my ability. Then I explained that perhaps a more clear way to state my thinking was TA's "Dsell trying to get on both sides of a lynch" statement.
Would you prefer I never mentioned that shraeye successfully lurked his way out of suspicion? I'm still rolling around how I feel about his RL explanation (of course I'm willing to accept RL explanations, it's more the tone/style it's presented with where I'm trying to draw a town/scum distinction).
Still catching up on what happened overnight, btw.
Mega-post part 3: what Galz said.
Actually - this is all related to Dsell, and I feel I've already explained myself here. At least as far as his accusations toward me are concerned.
The only extra I have to add is that I think I don't want to lynch Galz. I think he's probably town via faust's thinking. Galz's Robz comments also did a lot for me in this.
So given that all that's done (I hope), where do I stand?
Well, I know that Voltgloss and I are town. I have town reads on mail-mi, Galzria, Walrus, AHoppy, Archetype, bocaJ, faust, xeiron, and liopoil. Maybe more players, but the recent craziness has resulted in me needing a *gasp* re-read to sort the remaining players out.
I do know that, since I am town, it is bad if I remain the topic of conversation as I can't really see how that would ever be a negative to scum.
Something else: Do you guys (especially Voltgloss) think it would help if bocaJ flavor claims, so that someone familiar with the show can tell us whether his roleclaim makes sense flavorwise?
I've known what his flavor is since his first two posts. Google it.
I agree with Robz that we're veering into accidental D1 fullclaiming. And that it is terrible.
I still see both the town!Galz and scum!Galz cases. Because there's more than 1 scum out there (boy, I sure hope so) I don't want him to be the lynch today anyway.
My "would lynch" list keeps morphing, but I think we've blown our soft deadline to shreds at this point. We do need to end this day soon, as it's starting to get bloated. I have no strong convictions anymore. I'm keeping my vote on shraeye since he also has votes. I think at this point I will also happily vote for Eevee, chairs, EFHW, nkirbit, or Dsell.
It is the correct move to lynch someone D1 (especially in a non RMM game). What I found weird was how you worded it and said that nkirbit is the only available lynch when he really isn't.
To be fair to Walrus nkirbit's wagon is huge compared to everyone else.
Voltgloss, you may need to steer us a bit in our lynch pool like Galz did in HP (by taking candidates off the table). I don't see anything happening to get us to focus otherwise. I'm viewed as too scummy for anyone to take my lynch pools seriously.
I just haven't seen anything in Nkirbit's behavior that says "scum" rather than "anti-town". The points people have made aren't compelling, and seem to me like they're trying to get anti-town behavior painted as scummy. Nkirbit is an extremely easy mislynch, and that's what's happening now. Scum are on his wagon without a doubt, hoping this goes through.
And who do you think that is?I actually don't, no. I'm increasingly frustrated by having been duped into signing up for an RMM game when that's not what I wanted.I take from this complaint that nkirbit also has a power role himself. Might be a scum PR, might be a town PR. Something to take into consideration.
Vote: Faust
I am not voting because of the rolefishing. I am voting because you are seriously still voting for someone you think has a decent chance of being a town PR.
NO. YOU VOTING FOR HIM IS INSANE. Why are you casting a "pressure" vote right now?
Voltgloss, you may need to steer us a bit in our lynch pool like Galz did in HP (by taking candidates off the table). I don't see anything happening to get us to focus otherwise. I'm viewed as too scummy for anyone to take my lynch pools seriously.
I've been working on my thoughts throughout the day and I will give them in due time. That time's not yet, but it's soon.
Also: self-pity grinds my gears. Especially when you're not the guy with 8 votes on him.
Also also: for the love of redacted stop suggesting that I "steer" things.
Sorry for suggesting a strategy I've seen work for town in the past.
I agree with Voltgloss. He should not steer things. An IC steering thing takes away decisions from players, and decisions are how we analyze who's scum. Saying "tell me who I should consider voting for!" not only lowers the odds but also causes scum players to disguise their votes more easily.His second time suggesting that people just wait for Voltgloss to steer us. It's a perfect cover for scum who aren't sure which direction to go and want some built-in excuses for whatever way they go. Suggestions like these make me surer of my vote on Voltaire. I think other people need to give him a serious look.
If you care what I actually think/intended, my second post was seeing this threat get bloated, seeing a D1 stretching on to the point where I think it is officially too long (personally), knowing both of those things are anti-town, and reaching for a solution that town has successfully used in the past to end D1's on a very positive note. I maintain any reasonable person, even if they disagree with this strategy, should not see that as scummy.
I also see how this is similar on the surface to a strategy that would benefit scum. I maintain that what I want is something clearly different.
It's time for me to quote Galzria from when he was modding LOTR2. Consider the below required reading. It's what I've been endeavouring to do all day, and I'm working now to get the results of that analysis typed up.Quote from: GalzriaI still maintain that f.ds does d1 wrong.
You can't "make a case" worth beans against scum unless they honestly 'slip'.
A) "Contradictions" aren't scummy. Town changes their mind and their opinion MUCH more than scum.
B) Scum can feed distrust and suspicion. They can fan the flames, or play the buddy game. Scum rarely ever stays noncommittal. If there's an issue, they have a stance on it. Which side is up to them.
C) Multiplayer interactions. Focus on them. "IF 'X' THEN 'Y'" are far more valuable than "I'm sure 'X' is true and bias everything towards that".
Every town player there right now is trying too hard to finger scum. To catch them. That won't work d1. Flip it around. Don't look for that one good case for somebody being scum, look for reasons to eliminate people. Give them reasons to be town - or at least a reason not to lynch. Archetype, for example, should be off the table. PoE down based on not who's "most likely" to be scum, but instead by eliminating those "less likely" to be scum.
Finding scum needs real information. You can't have that d1. D1 is a different animal and needs to be treated with different guiding principles. Town(s) will continue to fail because they think they can catch scum when they can't. D1 lynches are FAR, FAR below average for hitting scum for a reason.
The trick is making reasonable arguments for certain people (Arch, here) to be removed from lynch candidacy. Arguments that most agree on. I wouldn't lynch TA, Arch, Yuma or (I think) Sudgy in this game. Post count alone gets them a d1 pass from me. Can scum post a lot? Yes, but it's harder. And while one might be scum, there's a very, very low likelihood that two are. So look elsewhere.
But TA is being pushed for "being scummy". People want a d1 case, and that's what you get. It's the wrong way to find scum d1.
Hey, this is what I've been trying too! :)
This is what I'm talkin' about. 8)
I am good with Voltgloss's pool. It does not contain two players in my own pool (Dsell and Eevee) but I do not feel so strongly about them compared to others that I would fight to have them included. Voltgloss's pool does contain some players (Walrus, AHoppy) I think should be off the table. It also includes some players right on the border (Archetype, lio), but there's going to be differences of opinion here.
That leaves Robz, chairs, shraeye, mcmc, sudgy, and EFHW for me.
Curious for Voltgloss's take on Galz and nkirbit.
*fistpump* Now this is what I was talking about - exactly what I was hoping for from our IC.Funny how some positive feedback makes you more excited about a game!
:D
I'm sure Voltgloss is working on his next post as we speak. I want to go back and see who said negative stuff about nkirbit but didn't vote for him (this group does include me, in all fairness. Because honestly, I won't know what I think about nkirbit until I see a flip).
Faust, not days. Phone autocorrect my bad
I know you've posted about him before but I forget your case. One sentence summary or a link to where you go into more detail?
As I said earlier multiple times, I think it is hard to catch scum on D1. We are trying to win, not lynch scum as soon as we can.
I agree with you. Voltgloss likely agrees with you. Do you really think it's better to lynch town? I mean, what do you propose? I support Voltgloss's reasoning so far. I mean, I still need to look at that smaller pool, but it contains people within my own.
Do you not see how Voltgloss's approach (via Galz) [and I've been trying it too all day, with less success] is an attempt to deal with the fact that it's hard to catch scum D1?
Why are you more interested in this group than in people who actually voted him?
Found my first example: Dsell!I am not going to vote for nkirbit over this but I am also never going to forget it.
Voltgloss, what is your take on this sort of thing? In my opinion, they should be included in the pool if we're operating under the assumption that nkirbit is town. Or do you think that town is more likely to make this sort of statement?
Mega-post time!
The Voltgloss 6
I re-read them. Here are my thoughts.
- chairs - He said he was ok with my lynch pool when I posted my first one. It contained the following matches with Voltgloss's list: Robz, chairs, EFHW. I feel like that's worth "not forgetting". He's certainly not been super helpful, and has jumped his vote around a lot. He's fished for flavor information (but this also apparently relates to his secondary win-con). I can see this two ways. Either scum wouldn't be so careless and so he is town, or chairs is a scum PR who needs flavor information to be effective. I would vote for chairs but he is not my favorite of this list.
- EFHW - Very little here. I can bias myself to read his posts as scum easily positioning on various wagons, or town who does not have strong convictions. But I could be very happy with a vote here.
- Robz888 - Lurked for ages. Said obvious stuff about claiming. Voted nkirbit for many reasons (including the slip). Changed to me after Voltgloss referring to the slip. Robz, what about your other points on nkirbit (the frustration)? Could happily vote Robz here.
- sudgy - I am actually leaning town here, just because sudgy is saying some pretty crazy things and why would scum say those things? Also, sudgy has an "always scummy" rep and I could see that here. I would sadly vote here.
- WalrusMcFishSr - he should not be here. See below.
- mcmcsalot - There's, like, nothing here. He wanted to lynch both Galz and nkirbit. Does scum lurk this much? I actually lean "no", especially with all the talk about lurking we've been doing.
So out of all of those, Vote: Robz is my preferred choice (oh god this makes me look so OMGUSy :(), then EFHW. I might put some off-wagon people here before chairs, mcmc, or sudgy.
Walrus
Why he shouldn't be on this list: his posts are massively high in content, reads, positions, and the like. And I personally think he's been scumhunting. I urge everyone, including Voltgloss, to re-read his posts and see how the content of his posts makes him a poor D1 lynch.
I'll look at the "small four" later (maybe not tonight), and if anyone wants a serious reply to Robz's case I can give that too.
Excuse me: there are four such people. shraeye, Archetype, Ahoppy, and liopoil. My error.
Yeah, I have nothing else to do right now.
shraeye - there's not that much super-scummy here, actually. I think we just have strong differences of opinion. Which I guess means I am neutral on shraeye. I just don't see how someone who is my alignment would have such massively different reads on almost every situation/player.
Archetype - the biggest tell I guess is the cop/mail-mi/me/Galz situation at the start of the game. But there's very little here. Virtually no reads/stances etc. But nothing bad, I guess either. I would vote here but he'd be really, really low.
AHoppy - I think he's town, under the "scum wouldn't lurk that much" theory. If that makes sense. And the few posts he does have do have reads/stances etc. Would not vote here.
liopoil - Was more interested in his secondary win-con that scumhunting. Holy crap, nothing until arguing for lynching Galz. I would vote here.
I will be busy this weekend, like all of us. I will be sure to check in on the thread twice a day (morning and night) and I will move my vote to one of my/Voltgloss's other candidates if it's clear Robz will not be a viable lynch at that point.Voltaire, Ahoppy just moved to a new continent and mcmc has been pretty vocal of being super busy for ages. I don't believe giving either any sort of a pass for lurking is smart.
Don't worry, it's based on data! I actually went back and looked up the post counts of the entire town for the past 3-4 normal games, and looked at where scum was. They're usually in the bottom third, but not literally the least active.Archetype - But there's very little here. Virtually no reads/stances etc. But nothing bad, I guess either.EFHW's not a he. But what I mean to say about these quotes is that these are exactly the people I'm the most worried about. Don't remember much, they did this and that, no arguments that stick out or ruffle feathers.
- EFHW - Very little here. I can bias myself to read his posts as scum easily positioning on various wagons, or town who does not have strong convictions. But I could be very happy with a vote here.
My bad on EFHW, I knew that and have gotten it right in the past. But I do see where you're coming from and that's fine. You'll see that I am willing to vote for either of them.WalrusI did in fact read these posts. What the heck do you mean by massively high in content? The 5 RVS posts at the beginning? The 4 posts where he's joking about Red Doors and crap? The 4 posts where he says "Galzria, hmmmmm, that's a humdinger"? or the 3 posts where he says "Sorry I'm a newb"?
Why he shouldn't be on this list: his posts are massively high in content, reads, positions, and the like. And I personally think he's been scumhunting. I urge everyone, including Voltgloss, to re-read his posts and see how the content of his posts makes him a poor D1 lynch.
I'll look at the "small four" later (maybe not tonight), and if anyone wants a serious reply to Robz's case I can give that too.
It's not content-less, for sure. But I'm highly suspicious of how inflated you keep stating Walrus's 'content' is.
I knew someone would be "upset" about how Walrus started the game with silly posts. But here are a (non-exhaustive) set of constructive posts by him:For an even more foolproof plan, though, let's go with vote: mail-mi.
I'm always up for a vote: mail-mi.
Also, Walrus, it would be bastard for Voltgloss to be scum and since this isn't bastard, I'd recommend moving your vote elsewhere.
Haha, you mean there are no mod-sponsored bastard elements :P
But if we're going to be super serious here, I would have to vote: Voltaire
because:
1.) I agree with Galzria that jumping on Archetype like that felt kind of suspicious. Also, I'm curious to see Galz's plan, because I sure as hell don't have one.
2.) Why so quick to vote mail-mi, if only kind of as a joke?
3.) Why are you the one who expresses concern over my Voltgloss vote, which was obviously a temporary joke?
4.) Your name also starts with 'Volt', which is scummy :)
Not much to go on at all but I don't want to just be lurking and joking about. It would have been irresponsible of me to leave the IC hanging at L-10. I apologize Voltaire if this is totally baseless.There seems to be much volatility surrounding Shraeye, and I can understand the reasons why, but I'd rather let the man defend himself at least so we could sort it out better. I saw what happened to the Town Cop in that other game, and while this is obviously not the same situation, I'm trying at least to take a measured stance.
I'm fine with my vote where it is for right now, although it is liable to change. In case it wasn't clear I'm a noob too so it's not like I have much of a baseline to go by.I'm going to go ahead and change to vote: Shraeye for now. He had a chance to respond and, well, to me it wasn't so convincing. His current attitude just doesn't smack of innocence.
Meanwhile 'aire has responded to the pressure on him with aplomb. Still wary, but I think Shraeye is the better vote for now. In any case it's still early and better options may present themselves.
Thanks for the general advice, lio, that was helpful for me at least. Neutral read right now but I do appreciate the strategy tips.This Galzria situation is a real mind-bender...my gut tells me that lynching him would be a bad move, but I don't really know what to think. A lotta ins, a lotta outs, a lotta what-have-yous.
I'm not going to vote for him right now in any case. The 75% comment also seems innocuous enough to me.
In fact, let me unvote for the time being. I would think that if Shraeye were scum, he would have turned up by now to defend himself more effectively. Maybe he was just being a bit blunt after all. Also, a couple of other people jumped on the Shraeye boat after me with minimal justification--not that my initial reasoning was any less tenuous, but still it raises some eyebrows.
Anyway, what I'm trying to say here is, I have no idea what I'm doing :)
Heck I'm done, I'm not even close to halfway through the thread and I've pulled that many. I'm not claiming Walrus has been the most helpful player, but I think that his contributions easily separate him from the rest of the lynch pool. If there's something I'm missing here I'm open to it, but he is off the table for me today.
And yes, Walrus, it's good you're a little suspicious of me for this. And that honestly increases my town read on you.
No-one has joined me in voicing suspicion of Robz, so unvote. I see some people voicing suspicion for EFHW, so I will vote: EFHW in hopes that starts something.
mcmc is not my preferred lynch today so I will hold off there for now. I could go for lio after EFHW if needed.
As of the most recent vote count, the following players are voting for non-IC approved targets: nkirbit, bocaJ, mcmc, sudgy, liopoil (and Voltgloss, but I'm certain he'll show up to vote). Now, I understand the whole "don't blindly sheep the IC" thing, but nobody has made a case compelling enough to overrule Voltgloss and send a wave of support from the rest of the town onto their other lynches. At this point, with the day ending in less than 12 hours, these players are voting for non-viable candidates and actively hindering us getting the best lynch through (assuming any of these players are town, and have an opinion about the actual vote-getters). I find this quite anti-town, and encourage them to put their vote somewhere where it will be useful.
I am concerned that we might have a lynch pool that is mostly scum, with town mcmc, and scum is very happy to mislynch mcmc because he's the most-lurking and it's easy to get town thinking that way. Volt's most recent points about mcmc are good, but the initial one abuot how lynching mcmc will give us information about people's lurking stances is a bad one, I think, because mcmc doesn't represent all lurkers.
Because you can't have opinions unless Voltgloss tells you what to think?
Modern Community's "if we say it enough, it will become true" *airquotes* fact */airquotes* - Voltaire is blindly sheeping Voltgloss.
I WAS DOING MOST OF WHAT HE WAS DOING BEFORE HE WAS DOING IT AND I ASKED HIM TO START DOING IT (he's made it clear he would have anyway) AND THE ENTIRE REASON I WANTED HIM TO DO IT IS I THOUGHT IT WAS A GOOD IDEA AND HE'D BE TRUSTED MORE AS THE IC
/rant
(or even somebody who's, you know, actually scummy).
What has changed such that you think I am a better lynch than your own system? ie you must think I'm obvscum, the rare D1 scum that breaks the system. Do you think Voltgloss/myself are applying it correctly? Incorrectly?
Galz, I don't see a vote. Where is your vote.
mcmc: deadline is in less than 4 hours. We are not lynching nkirbit today. Where are you placing your vote?
I just reread Archetype. It didn't take long.
I am seeing the combination of:
- lurking, plus
- contribution to things that aren't scumhunting (flavorclaiming, ramifications of xeiron modkill), plus
- sucking up to me.
Robz, please give Arch a reread and let me know if you're seeing the same things.
I didn't vote. Sudgy is my next highest scum read, and I think he's got a better chance of being lynched.
I didn't vote. Sudgy is my next highest scum read, and I think he's got a better chance of being lynched.
You voted sudgy for suggesting the vig shoot you tonight. Is there more to your read?
As far as some of the things so far, glaz is sounding towny, though I always feel that way, voltaire is being portraied(he may also be) very scummy, and I think with the size of this game I cant see scum pushing to paint a player a scummy, so regardless of volt's alignment I can't see the people saying hes scummy being scum.
What's off is that he pushed the nkirbit wagon on entirely flimsy reasoning while sheeping others. I think he was by far the scummiest person, and if nkirbit is town, there's a good chance of him being scum.Now is probably not the time to start this discussion, but you might want to give some examples here. Also, my reasoning for nkirbit was only flimsy after you deliberately ignored half of my arguments.
I didn't vote. Sudgy is my next highest scum read, and I think he's got a better chance of being lynched.
You voted sudgy for suggesting the vig shoot you tonight. Is there more to your read?
That was a large point on him. I don't have time to do another write-up on Sudgy though.
What's off is that he pushed the nkirbit wagon on entirely flimsy reasoning while sheeping others. I think he was by far the scummiest person, and if nkirbit is town, there's a good chance of him being scum.Now is probably not the time to start this discussion, but you might want to give some examples here. Also, my reasoning for nkirbit was only flimsy after you deliberately ignored half of my arguments.
What's off is that he pushed the nkirbit wagon on entirely flimsy reasoning while sheeping others. I think he was by far the scummiest person, and if nkirbit is town, there's a good chance of him being scum.Now is probably not the time to start this discussion, but you might want to give some examples here. Also, my reasoning for nkirbit was only flimsy after you deliberately ignored half of my arguments.
With us so close to deadline, I think faust discussion is better tabled until Day 2.
I didn't vote. Sudgy is my next highest scum read, and I think he's got a better chance of being lynched.
You voted sudgy for suggesting the vig shoot you tonight. Is there more to your read?
There's also a LOT less to reread for sudgy than there was for Voltaire. Heck, I'm going to go do that reread now.
That was a large point on him. I don't have time to do another write-up on Sudgy though.
No reread needed, just a sentence or two. You are voting sudgy. He is your next biggest scumread after Voltaire. I assume you have some reason in mind why. I'd like to know it.
Voltgloss: 153
Voltaire: 129
nkirbit: 84
Galzria: 71
Robz888: 68
Twistedarcher: 59
faust: 54
Eevee: 51
liopoil: 48
EFHW: 47
Dsell: 43
shraeye: 40
sudgy: 37
mail-mi: 35
chairs: 34
WalrusMcFishSr: 27
Archetype: 23
xeiron: 23
AHoppy: 15
bocaJ: 15
mcmcsalot: 12
I did feel caught as scum in HP, long before the vote was ultimately decided. I felt that it was impossible for me to adequately defend myself so as to not have the suspicion thrown off of me - perhaps I could have saved myself D1, but it looked highly unlikely I'd make it to the end. I guess from a Town perspective it doesn't look that way, but I was very demoralized about three-quarters of the way through D1 of HP as I was certain I'd been had.and the fact that he didn't defend himself in HP supports him feeling like caught scum.
vote: liopoil hes the viable lynch option that isn't me, this is much better in my opinion.disagree. I think it's quite possible that someone who isn't either of us gets lynched today.
and if that was the case, I would be voting for you. I'm not.vote: liopoil hes the viable lynch option that isn't me, this is much better in my opinion.disagree. I think it's quite possible that someone who isn't either of us gets lynched today.
I didn't vote. Sudgy is my next highest scum read, and I think he's got a better chance of being lynched.
You voted sudgy for suggesting the vig shoot you tonight. Is there more to your read?
That was a large point on him. I don't have time to do another write-up on Sudgy though.
No reread needed, just a sentence or two. You are voting sudgy. He is your next biggest scumread after Voltaire. I assume you have some reason in mind why. I'd like to know it.
Chairs did defend himself in hp.. One of the reasons I was voting for him was that in the days leading up to the deadline, his content was exclusively defending himself and making no effort to get a correct lynch.oh really?
Still happy with my vote on chairs.
I'm afraid I don't have much of a defense here other than that yes, I'm town, and I'm sorry that I misread the situation as lio vs volt. Clearly I was reading into the words of others something that wasn't there, and I worried we'd lynch one of my town reads.
And Volt, sorry if I feel sheepy to you - I'm still trying to find that balance between "I am 100% certain X is scum" and "I have no idea who is scum so I am not posting at all".
Snow: It was less than 24 hours to deadline, most people had been discussing liopoil as possible scum at that time (or at least that's how I felt, I'll admit to being pretty tired at the time of posting), and somebody else suggested voltaire as a possibility.
Chairs did defend himself in hp.. One of the reasons I was voting for him was that in the days leading up to the deadline, his content was exclusively defending himself and making no effort to get a correct lynch.oh really?
Still happy with my vote on chairs.I'm afraid I don't have much of a defense here other than that yes, I'm town, and I'm sorry that I misread the situation as lio vs volt. Clearly I was reading into the words of others something that wasn't there, and I worried we'd lynch one of my town reads.
And Volt, sorry if I feel sheepy to you - I'm still trying to find that balance between "I am 100% certain X is scum" and "I have no idea who is scum so I am not posting at all".
Snow: It was less than 24 hours to deadline, most people had been discussing liopoil as possible scum at that time (or at least that's how I felt, I'll admit to being pretty tired at the time of posting), and somebody else suggested voltaire as a possibility.
Archetype would be a fine lynch. Better than mcmc or EFHW. Roughly equivalent to chairs. Not sure if preferred to lio.I agree that I am 'sucking up to the IC' because A) it's Voltgloss and B) I can trust his opinions a heckuva lot more than I can trust everyone else's.
He is also QUITE deferential to the IC--way more than I had remembered. He proposes flavor claiming. He does the "that suck" after xeiron is killed, which some people say is a scumtell, although I've never been sure if it actually is. Not very much content and super lurky. Also cautious, I think. Safe opinions, safe votes. Lots of "this is why I am doing this" type things.
I disagree about my 'safe choices'. When Galz claimed, I was one of the first to say 'This guy is totally town what the heck are you guys doing' and when nkirbit 'scumslipped' I was one of the few to defend him by pointing out that it was legitimate frustration. Both times, these were going against the majority's opinion.
But the other option is to go with the flow.I disagree about my 'safe choices'. When Galz claimed, I was one of the first to say 'This guy is totally town what the heck are you guys doing' and when nkirbit 'scumslipped' I was one of the few to defend him by pointing out that it was legitimate frustration. Both times, these were going against the majority's opinion.
Which is easy to do automatically if you are scum and they are town.
But the other option is to go with the flow.I disagree about my 'safe choices'. When Galz claimed, I was one of the first to say 'This guy is totally town what the heck are you guys doing' and when nkirbit 'scumslipped' I was one of the few to defend him by pointing out that it was legitimate frustration. Both times, these were going against the majority's opinion.
Which is easy to do automatically if you are scum and they are town.
So which is worse?
ash, yuma, if deadline hit right now, who would be lynched?
Possibly from your position. But from me knowing that I'm Town, I know that this isn't the case.But the other option is to go with the flow.I disagree about my 'safe choices'. When Galz claimed, I was one of the first to say 'This guy is totally town what the heck are you guys doing' and when nkirbit 'scumslipped' I was one of the few to defend him by pointing out that it was legitimate frustration. Both times, these were going against the majority's opinion.
Which is easy to do automatically if you are scum and they are town.
So which is worse?
Depends on thekingdomcircumstances. What I'm trying to point out is that scum defending someone (who they know to be town) is "safer" for them than accusing someone (who they also know to be town).
I suspected you because I believed that you made a bad decision in claiming if you are town, and that you wouldn't claim as town. I became convinced that this is a mistake you certainly could have made, and so backed off.
Vote: Chairs let's see if there is enough support for it. there's at least 4 votes - me, faust, dsell, nkirbit.
Question for the mods:Day 1 will last seven days. If a majority lynch is not reached by the deadline, the player with the most votes will be lynched. If there is a tie, the player to first reach L-1 will be lynched. No Lynch is not specifically disallowed, but would require a vote to occur.
If there is a tie at deadline, and neither player is at L-1, will the player to first reach the count at which they are tied be the one who is lynched?
I assume that's the case but want to confirm. Thanks.
Yes. The player to first reach L-X will be lynched, regardless of whether that is L-1 or L-5 as long as there is no one currently with more votes than the tied players.
Thanks. One other clarification question. Say the following scenario happens:
- Player #1 reaches, say, L-3
- Later, Player #2 also reaches L-3
- Someone then unvotes Player #1, bringing his vote count down to L-4
- Still later, someone else votes Player #1, bringing his count back up to L-3
- Deadline hits; both are tied at L-3, no other player has more votes
Who is lynched: Player #1 or Player #2?
Mods, another vote clarification question, sorry. Because we now have the following:
- liopoil reached L-6
- Later, mcmc reached L-6
- Then mcmc reached L-5
- Now mcmc has dropped back to L-6
Who is on the chopping block: liopoil or mcmc? liopoil reached L-6 "first." But mcmc went past that, to L-5, and liopoil hasn't.
I suspected you because I believed that you made a bad decision in claiming if you are town, and that you wouldn't claim as town. I became convinced that this is a mistake you certainly could have made, and so backed off.
Vote: Chairs let's see if there is enough support for it. there's at least 4 votes - me, faust, dsell, nkirbit.
I suspected you because I believed that you made a bad decision in claiming if you are town, and that you wouldn't claim as town. I became convinced that this is a mistake you certainly could have made, and so backed off.
Vote: Chairs let's see if there is enough support for it. there's at least 4 votes - me, faust, dsell, nkirbit.
Well I don't love it when my #2 scumread advocates a vote on my #1 scumread. But I do prefer this lynch.
Is there anyone else who wants to vote chairs but has not because he seems like a nonviable lynch?
Voltgloss - do you want me to claim? You have ~15 minutes to decide.
When you say "L-X", I assume that X = (11 - the number of votes which the two players are tied at when the day ends).
Voltgloss - do you want me to claim? You have ~15 minutes to decide.
Is your claim provable?
more importantly, if we assume your claim to be true, does that make you IC?Voltgloss - do you want me to claim? You have ~15 minutes to decide.
Is your claim provable?
In certain circumstances. A show claim would help.
more importantly, if we assume your claim to be true, does that make you IC?Voltgloss - do you want me to claim? You have ~15 minutes to decide.
Is your claim provable?
In certain circumstances. A show claim would help.
To be more specific about my above point:what about lurking, which 1/2 of them are doing? I'd say that's something...
Ahoppy
Mcmc
Chairs
Archetype
Nkirbit
Faust
are the people I had in my "null" reads list. I don't have a preference to voting any of them out, but I also don't have a reason to want to see them stay. They've given me nothing to call them townie or scummy by.
more importantly, if we assume your claim to be true, does that make you IC?Voltgloss - do you want me to claim? You have ~15 minutes to decide.
Is your claim provable?
In certain circumstances. A show claim would help.
I don't believe that my claim would make me a full IC, no. But it would be illogical for me to fakeclaim this were I to then be able to prove my claim is real.
To be more specific about my above point:what about lurking, which 1/2 of them are doing? I'd say that's something...
Ahoppy
Mcmc
Chairs
Archetype
Nkirbit
Faust
are the people I had in my "null" reads list. I don't have a preference to voting any of them out, but I also don't have a reason to want to see them stay. They've given me nothing to call them townie or scummy by.
Voltgloss - do you want me to claim? You have ~15 minutes to decide.
Is your claim provable?
In certain circumstances. A show claim would help.
more importantly, if we assume your claim to be true, does that make you IC?
To be more specific about my above point:what about lurking, which 1/2 of them are doing? I'd say that's something...
Ahoppy
Mcmc
Chairs
Archetype
Nkirbit
Faust
are the people I had in my "null" reads list. I don't have a preference to voting any of them out, but I also don't have a reason to want to see them stay. They've given me nothing to call them townie or scummy by.
I don't find lurking to be scummy in itself. It's certainly not pro-town, and scum do lurk, but so do town. If I were to guess, I would say there's probably one scum in that group. Maybe two. But which one(s) is pretty random to me.
sure, but I highly doubt there is something like an alignment cop who is scum, or a vigilante who is scum.Voltgloss - do you want me to claim? You have ~15 minutes to decide.
Is your claim provable?
In certain circumstances. A show claim would help.
Then I am inclined to put your claim to the test on a later day, and not lynch you today on the cusp of deadline. So, do NOT claim.
I also reread and found nothing that struck me as a compelling reason for chairs' lynch. The nkirbit comment about feeling like "caught scum" is, I think, being made up to more of a "contradiction" than it actually is.more importantly, if we assume your claim to be true, does that make you IC?
Not sure how, in a closed setup, any claim can establish that other than actually being an IC. It's not like in HP where everyone knew there was exactly one Auror, and Galz thus became IC when he wasn't counterclaimed.
It doesn't bother me here the way it did in HP, because I was a major piece of the scum offence in HP and here I'm just another cog in Town's machine.
It doesn't bother me here the way it did in HP, because I was a major piece of the scum offence in HP and here I'm just another cog in Town's machine.
Wait! Now I remember where things were.
I saw this when it happened and didn't point it out in case it was a derpclaim, but I read this as a VT claim by chairs, where he had earlier hinted at having a role. Now he says he has something to claim. Is this the contradiction I think it is? vote: chairs?
chairs has hinted at having a flavor-related claim. That's pretty hard for scum to reasonably fake. If he's faking, I think we get him on a later day.no, the idea is that he's scum who really does have a flavor-related role.
Hm. I'm still ok with Mcmcsalot, but this is certainly something to look back on later.It doesn't bother me here the way it did in HP, because I was a major piece of the scum offence in HP and here I'm just another cog in Town's machine.
Wait! Now I remember where things were.
I saw this when it happened and didn't point it out in case it was a derpclaim, but I read this as a VT claim by chairs, where he had earlier hinted at having a role. Now he says he has something to claim. Is this the contradiction I think it is? vote: chairs?
Every Town role is a cog in Town's machine. You continue to arouse my suspicion.
Trying to mislynch me now that I've said I have something to claim, much?
Vote: archetypeIt's mainly your voting history, which is like non-existent. This, the earlier lurking and your Galzria case contribute to my vote. I am however going to reread Archetype again, so my vote isn't final yet.
faust, why do you think I am scum?
The reason I point it out is because I think it adds to the chairs case (moving vote around, lurking, etc.). I will also vote: Archetype but I would rather lynch mcmc or EFHW I think? Man this is nuts.If you want to see a bad case of moving votes around, look how quickly liopoil has switched his votes in the latest posts.
Yeah, because I had nothing to vote for. I did my first rereads today, which was a mistake. Today I have voted several times. Earlier lurking it not true, unless you count having no internet access on thursday. I don't see what's wrong with my archetype vote...Vote: archetypeIt's mainly your voting history, which is like non-existent. This, the earlier lurking and your Galzria case contribute to my vote. I am however going to reread Archetype again, so my vote isn't final yet.
faust, why do you think I am scum?
yup. I'm up for a chairs or an arch lynch, and which one is viable is changing every 5 seconds.The reason I point it out is because I think it adds to the chairs case (moving vote around, lurking, etc.). I will also vote: Archetype but I would rather lynch mcmc or EFHW I think? Man this is nuts.If you want to see a bad case of moving votes around, look how quickly liopoil has switched his votes in the latest posts.
The reason I point it out is because I think it adds to the chairs case (moving vote around, lurking, etc.). I will also vote: Archetype but I would rather lynch mcmc or EFHW I think? Man this is nuts.If you want to see a bad case of moving votes around, look how quickly liopoil has switched his votes in the latest posts.
Yeah, because I had nothing to vote for. I did my first rereads today, which was a mistake. Today I have voted several times. Earlier lurking it not true, unless you count having no internet access on thursday. I don't see what's wrong with my archetype vote...Maybe this came out wrong, I meant to say that I'm considering voting for Archetype. Yeah, you voted several times, but only after you were under suspicion and someone pointed out your lack of voting activity, so I can't really take that into account.
Votecount please.
Insane rapid-posting stopped. Scum may be ok with whoever is the current lynch.
Why has AHoppy received no talk whatsoever?
I'm trying to catch up now after being busy, but I have to go in about half an hour. Is there anything MAJOR that's happened since my last post? (basically, any reason to not vote someone)
I'm back.I'm trying to catch up now after being busy, but I have to go in about half an hour. Is there anything MAJOR that's happened since my last post? (basically, any reason to not vote someone)
I don't know when that was, but probably.
I'm back.I'm trying to catch up now after being busy, but I have to go in about half an hour. Is there anything MAJOR that's happened since my last post? (basically, any reason to not vote someone)
I don't know when that was, but probably.
About ten pages ago. And, do you mean probably something happened, or probably nothing happened?
I guess no one other than myself or Voltaire really considered an EFHW lynch. It also now seems that Chairs is off the table. and I will table Faust until D2.
That leaves me between Liopoil and Mcmc. I've agreed with a lot of the analysis by Liopoil (his analysis of Galzria's claim was basically point-by-point exactly what I was running through in my head. I also think that there was nothing scummy about his pushing his secondary-win condition, as I'd have done the exact same thing in his shoes. It's an easy secondary win, why wouldn't anyone do that?
I honestly don't have much of a read on Mcmc. The lurking's there, and not a lot else -- I don't recall anything memorable. Archetype falls into a similar boat, and so did Chairs (I had found Chairs scummier than Mcmc, though. One thing I noticed about Chairs' play is that so often as town, he goes by his "gut" read. Yet he's seemingly completely gone away from that this game, as far as I can recall (and I haven't re-read this to be sure, this is just off of memory)).
Between Mcmc and Liopoil, I'd much rather lynch Mcmc, simply because he's not Liopoil. But I'd still be willing to consider Chairs. The fact that he's willing to potential claim something is pretty null to me, since that's what he'd obviously say as scum, too.
Vote: Mcmcsalot
I guess no one other than myself or Voltaire really considered an EFHW lynch. It also now seems that Chairs is off the table. and I will table Faust until D2.
That leaves me between Liopoil and Mcmc. I've agreed with a lot of the analysis by Liopoil (his analysis of Galzria's claim was basically point-by-point exactly what I was running through in my head. I also think that there was nothing scummy about his pushing his secondary-win condition, as I'd have done the exact same thing in his shoes. It's an easy secondary win, why wouldn't anyone do that?
I honestly don't have much of a read on Mcmc. The lurking's there, and not a lot else -- I don't recall anything memorable. Archetype falls into a similar boat, and so did Chairs (I had found Chairs scummier than Mcmc, though. One thing I noticed about Chairs' play is that so often as town, he goes by his "gut" read. Yet he's seemingly completely gone away from that this game, as far as I can recall (and I haven't re-read this to be sure, this is just off of memory)).
Between Mcmc and Liopoil, I'd much rather lynch Mcmc, simply because he's not Liopoil. But I'd still be willing to consider Chairs. The fact that he's willing to potential claim something is pretty null to me, since that's what he'd obviously say as scum, too.
Vote: Mcmcsalot
So with that vote they're both at 6. If one is town and the other scum, I expect scum to be on the town player. If they're both town, I expect scum to be all over the board (probably 1-2 on each, 1-2 not voting either). If both are scum... Sorry, I just don't see it. If they both are though, scum is likely split on each - but I expect all scum to be voting those two while trying desperately to feel out other lynch options (without seeming overly cohesive in their efforts).
Why has AHoppy received no talk whatsoever?
He has. Consensus as I understand it is few posts, high content (which I agree with).
There have been 100 posts since I last signed on 3 hours ago. Cliff notes anyone?
I'm back.I'm trying to catch up now after being busy, but I have to go in about half an hour. Is there anything MAJOR that's happened since my last post? (basically, any reason to not vote someone)
I don't know when that was, but probably.
About ten pages ago. And, do you mean probably something happened, or probably nothing happened?
Probably something. There are a few of us who really think Voltaire is scum, but Voltgloss is mostly opposed to it, and by now we seem to have all sort of settled on either lio, mcmc, archetype, or chairs. In an hour, whoever has the most votes will be lynched by default.
Voltaire, you were the other player besides me to suspect EFHW -- do you also find the fact that no one else has even mentioned her as viable target weird?
If there's scum in the lurkers we listed earlier, and it's a player such as EFHW, it makes sense that her partners would focus on other players, leaving little attention on the scum in the list.
Basically, we are going to naturally focus on the lurkers who are less likely to be scum, because that's how scum steered us. The people who don't get suspected, and ignored (such as EFHW) become more likely to be scum to me.
Voltaire, you were the other player besides me to suspect EFHW -- do you also find the fact that no one else has even mentioned her as viable target weird?
If there's scum in the lurkers we listed earlier, and it's a player such as EFHW, it makes sense that her partners would focus on other players, leaving little attention on the scum in the list.
Basically, we are going to naturally focus on the lurkers who are less likely to be scum, because that's how scum steered us. The people who don't get suspected, and ignored (such as EFHW) become more likely to be scum to me.
Bleh. This is tough. Even if I vote on the wagon of my least scum reads, it's still a toss-up. I see more scum reads on mcmc's wagon, which makes me want to vote liopoil. But I'm not sold liopoil is scum. Bleh. I guess he could be though?come on galz, you said yourself you don't have a real reason for voting for me. Sure, no great reasons to vote for mcmc either, but he's lurking and not contributing. I am. he's way more anti-town than I am. When faced with two likely mislynches, take the one that hurts less.
Sudgy just moved to liopoil, but I admit that I could be wrong on Sudgy. If Voltaire is scum, it's likely Eevee is as well, and Eevee was on Sudgy - which taints my read there.
:-/ No good choices.
vote: liopoil
I really hope you're scum mate.
Bleh. This is tough. Even if I vote on the wagon of my least scum reads, it's still a toss-up. I see more scum reads on mcmc's wagon, which makes me want to vote liopoil. But I'm not sold liopoil is scum. Bleh. I guess he could be though?
Sudgy just moved to liopoil, but I admit that I could be wrong on Sudgy. If Voltaire is scum, it's likely Eevee is as well, and Eevee was on Sudgy - which taints my read there.
:-/ No good choices.
vote: liopoil
I really hope you're scum mate.
My reads have been frustratingly non-aligned with the consensus. I'd want to lynch Faust, EFHW, or Dsell the most, while the wagons are being run up on someone i think is town (Liopoil) and someone I don't really have a good read on (Mcmc). I don't know why I've been that far off of the consensus so far, but it's certainly weird, and I really think we're looking in the wrong places.
I will agree to leave Faust off the table per Voltgloss' request. But why did no one want to vote EFHW when she was close in votes to Mcmc, Liopoil, Sudgy, and everyone else? Do people have town reads on her that I missed?
I still think mcmc is town, from what I've seen (I still haven't read everything yet). And, from rereading so far, lio seems somewhat scummy, so Vote: liopoil. Sorry if this is wrong.that's so lame man. I don't care if you're sorry, get it right!
Voltaire, you were the other player besides me to suspect EFHW -- do you also find the fact that no one else has even mentioned her as viable target weird?
If there's scum in the lurkers we listed earlier, and it's a player such as EFHW, it makes sense that her partners would focus on other players, leaving little attention on the scum in the list.
Basically, we are going to naturally focus on the lurkers who are less likely to be scum, because that's how scum steered us. The people who don't get suspected, and ignored (such as EFHW) become more likely to be scum to me.
I don't understand what you are saying. What?
I still think mcmc is town, from what I've seen (I still haven't read everything yet). And, from rereading so far, lio seems somewhat scummy, so Vote: liopoil. Sorry if this is wrong.that's so lame man. I don't care if you're sorry, get it right!
How am I scummy. That is really vague and you know it. You're taking the easy way out. I think mcmc is town too, but come on.
Voltaire, you were the other player besides me to suspect EFHW -- do you also find the fact that no one else has even mentioned her as viable target weird?
If there's scum in the lurkers we listed earlier, and it's a player such as EFHW, it makes sense that her partners would focus on other players, leaving little attention on the scum in the list.
Basically, we are going to naturally focus on the lurkers who are less likely to be scum, because that's how scum steered us. The people who don't get suspected, and ignored (such as EFHW) become more likely to be scum to me.
I don't understand what you are saying. What?
Sorry, that was a bit rambly. Here's a better try:
At one point, there were several players mentioned as viable targets. Among them were Mcmc, Liopoil, EFHW, and others.
In the final days, we have moved towards Mcmc and Liopoil. There are other targets who have been left behind, not garnering attention.
Given that there's a good amount of scum, the wagons are naturally going to tend towards town, rather than scum, players, especially when no one really has strong reads. I think that EFHW was one of the players left behind. Even more notable, people just kind of ignored her, despite myself and Voltaire mentioning her and voting her. The majority of players didn't even comment or make a stance on her.
I think that scum will more likely reside in a position that EFHW is in, rather than in the position that Mcmc or Liopoil are in.
Might be getting close to time for Liopoil to claim? :/ If it looks like it's gonna be Lio or Mcmc, and too late to go anywhere else, there's less risk of having too many town members claim.I'll claim if voltgloss doesn't vote for mcmc.
also, super-mad that I missed getting mcmc to 8 votes before I did by 1 minute. I mean, come on, I don't deserve to be lynched because I got online 2 minutes too late. I think this is a bad system, should do something like everyone must vote for one of tied people, maybe a hidden vote or something.
also, super-mad that I missed getting mcmc to 8 votes before I did by 1 minute. I mean, come on, I don't deserve to be lynched because I got online 2 minutes too late. I think this is a bad system, should do something like everyone must vote for one of tied people, maybe a hidden vote or something.
Voltgloss said he's coming back before deadline, I think. I imagine he will move his vote to you or mcmc.
? I don't get it.also, super-mad that I missed getting mcmc to 8 votes before I did by 1 minute. I mean, come on, I don't deserve to be lynched because I got online 2 minutes too late. I think this is a bad system, should do something like everyone must vote for one of tied people, maybe a hidden vote or something.
Voltgloss said he's coming back before deadline, I think. I imagine he will move his vote to you or mcmc.
Meh. I would rather not have Voltgloss be the deciding vote, honestly. I know he's impartial, but it's taking away a huge chance to read someone else by having them be forced to cast the deciding vote.
Scum!mcmc is like in KCGM, where he had lots of content in each post.No he didn't
also, super-mad that I missed getting mcmc to 8 votes before I did by 1 minute. I mean, come on, I don't deserve to be lynched because I got online 2 minutes too late. I think this is a bad system, should do something like everyone must vote for one of tied people, maybe a hidden vote or something.
Voltgloss said he's coming back before deadline, I think. I imagine he will move his vote to you or mcmc.
Meh. I would rather not have Voltgloss be the deciding vote, honestly. I know he's impartial, but it's taking away a huge chance to read someone else by having them be forced to cast the deciding vote.
Scum!mcmc is like in KCGM, where he had lots of content in each post.No he didn't
? I don't get it.also, super-mad that I missed getting mcmc to 8 votes before I did by 1 minute. I mean, come on, I don't deserve to be lynched because I got online 2 minutes too late. I think this is a bad system, should do something like everyone must vote for one of tied people, maybe a hidden vote or something.
Voltgloss said he's coming back before deadline, I think. I imagine he will move his vote to you or mcmc.
Meh. I would rather not have Voltgloss be the deciding vote, honestly. I know he's impartial, but it's taking away a huge chance to read someone else by having them be forced to cast the deciding vote.
woah. you have my vote, but I'm not moving it yet.
I'm here. I'm caught up.
Vote: EFHW
We need 6 people to move from the current wagons to lynch EFHW. I agree with the idea that the ignored lurker is more likely to be scum. We have 45-ish minutes. Are there enough people online to do this? Maybe throw scum for a loop?
I'm here. I'm caught up.
Vote: EFHW
We need 6 people to move from the current wagons to lynch EFHW. I agree with the idea that the ignored lurker is more likely to be scum. We have 45-ish minutes. Are there enough people online to do this? Maybe throw scum for a loop?
because I'm not certain there is enough support.
it's because of the funky system of figuring out ties.
yeah, I voted now.because I'm not certain there is enough support.
it's because of the funky system of figuring out ties.
We can always put our votes back. And unvoting from the wagons knocks them down. If one person has the most votes there's no need to care about ties.
People not voting for either lynch at this point are Eevee, bocaj, nkirbit, and Voltgloss.indeed. He was on an hour ago, did not post.
Voltgloss is IC and presumably coming back.
Bocaj, we all believe the claim.
Nkirbit did tell us he had to go, and leave his vote somewhere, and the person he left it on was viable at the time.
Eevee...?
Eevee looks scummy.
I also do not see what is going on that is making mcmc or Lio any more towny to anyone.
Guys EFHW is giving reads! It's something we can look back at later! It's a lot more content than mcmc or Lio. It's not the worst lynch in the world but it's a lot worse than the others.I gave reads today. And that's the idea - once her alignment is confirmed we can analyze her reads. plus, she might be scum!!
Anyone who stays off wagon, with two players tied, should be viewed as voting the player currently getting lynched. It's the same as saying, in this instance for example, they'd rather have Liopoil lynched than Mcmc.
EFHW lynch is rapidly looking like a clue to Dsell's alignment.eh, if EFHW is scum I'm not sure Dsell would do something this blatant.
EFHW lynch is rapidly looking like a clue to Dsell's alignment.
still not caught up, but do I get this right - I'm getting a wagon on me b/c I gave reads?????
I'm here. I'm caught up.yeah, actually, why did you choose EFHW? I much prefer that lynch to an mcmc lynch, but that's true of lots of other people too.
Vote: EFHW
We need 6 people to move from the current wagons to lynch EFHW. I agree with the idea that the ignored lurker is more likely to be scum. We have 45-ish minutes. Are there enough people online to do this? Maybe throw scum for a loop?
Galz is here. Galz, thoughts?
still not caught up, but do I get this right - I'm getting a wagon on me b/c I gave reads?????
I'm here. I'm caught up.yeah, actually, why did you choose EFHW? I much prefer that lynch to an mcmc lynch, but that's true of lots of other people too.
Vote: EFHW
We need 6 people to move from the current wagons to lynch EFHW. I agree with the idea that the ignored lurker is more likely to be scum. We have 45-ish minutes. Are there enough people online to do this? Maybe throw scum for a loop?
EFHW lynch is rapidly looking like a clue to Dsell's alignment.eh, if EFHW is scum I'm not sure Dsell would do something this blatant.
woah. you have my vote, but I'm not moving it yet.
Why?
This only works if we don't sit around waiting for each other to move. If it doesn't work, you can move your vote back.
OPERATION: VERY EXTENDED TOWN QUICKHAMMER IS GO
I am very displeased here. I have done nothing scummy except be away from my computer during a couple marathon post sessions. Is there ANYTHING else ANYONE can point to besides the timing of my increasing my posts?
EFHW lynch is rapidly looking like a clue to Dsell's alignment.eh, if EFHW is scum I'm not sure Dsell would do something this blatant.
Well, I dunno. If the numbers aren't there, and every vote counts, I don't expect scum to bus.
I'm actually more suspicious of Robz, if EFHW flips scum. Sort of seems like he's waiting to see where this goes, and how many votes it gets, rather than wanting to join in a charge.
How vocal of Lio's scumminess has he been? If he's been a leader of that wagon, I'd expect him to fight moving, but if he wasn't too convinced, if EFHW flips town I'd look to Robz as a possible partner.
I'm here. I'm caught up.yeah, actually, why did you choose EFHW? I much prefer that lynch to an mcmc lynch, but that's true of lots of other people too.
Vote: EFHW
We need 6 people to move from the current wagons to lynch EFHW. I agree with the idea that the ignored lurker is more likely to be scum. We have 45-ish minutes. Are there enough people online to do this? Maybe throw scum for a loop?
Probably because TA made a good point about it. And I like EFHW better than mcmc or lio.
he's been trying to get me lynched for quite some time now.EFHW lynch is rapidly looking like a clue to Dsell's alignment.eh, if EFHW is scum I'm not sure Dsell would do something this blatant.
Well, I dunno. If the numbers aren't there, and every vote counts, I don't expect scum to bus.
I'm actually more suspicious of Robz, if EFHW flips scum. Sort of seems like he's waiting to see where this goes, and how many votes it gets, rather than wanting to join in a charge.
How vocal of Lio's scumminess has he been? If he's been a leader of that wagon, I'd expect him to fight moving, but if he wasn't too convinced, if EFHW flips town I'd look to Robz as a possible partner.
EFHW lynch is rapidly looking like a clue to Dsell's alignment.eh, if EFHW is scum I'm not sure Dsell would do something this blatant.
Well, I dunno. If the numbers aren't there, and every vote counts, I don't expect scum to bus.
I'm actually more suspicious of Robz, if EFHW flips scum. Sort of seems like he's waiting to see where this goes, and how many votes it gets, rather than wanting to join in a charge.
How vocal of Lio's scumminess has he been? If he's been a leader of that wagon, I'd expect him to fight moving, but if he wasn't too convinced, if EFHW flipstownscum I'd look to Robz as a possible partner.
IF EFHW flips scum, I assume you mean?
TA's point was that there was no move to agree with his scumread. Not that I had actually done anything. Maybe no one agreed b/c there was nothing to see!
I'm here. I'm caught up.yeah, actually, why did you choose EFHW? I much prefer that lynch to an mcmc lynch, but that's true of lots of other people too.
Vote: EFHW
We need 6 people to move from the current wagons to lynch EFHW. I agree with the idea that the ignored lurker is more likely to be scum. We have 45-ish minutes. Are there enough people online to do this? Maybe throw scum for a loop?
Probably because TA made a good point about it. And I like EFHW better than mcmc or lio.
TA's point was that there was no move to agree with his scumread. Not that I had actually done anything. Maybe no one agreed b/c there was nothing to see!
not enough people online >:(...I say when there are 12 people viewing the thread. hey, it's a 20 player game, so yeah.
Voltgloss, nay. I will not move to EFHW, given my re-read of her and VOltaire's support of it.
Voltgloss, nay. I will not move to EFHW, given my re-read of her and VOltaire's support of it.
~Half Hour[/color]
Voltgloss, nay. I will not move to EFHW, given my re-read of her and VOltaire's support of it.
Seriously dude, what if there's two scum teams? Stop tunneling me. I think she's scum. Even if you think I'm scum that doesn't mean you shouldn't vote for her.
Voltgloss, nay. I will not move to EFHW, given my re-read of her and VOltaire's support of it.
Seriously dude, what if there's two scum teams? Stop tunneling me. I think she's scum. Even if you think I'm scum that doesn't mean you shouldn't vote for her.
claim time for me I think.....voltgloss, agree?
claim time for me I think.....voltgloss, agree?
Voltgloss, nay. I will not move to EFHW, given my re-read of her and VOltaire's support of it.
OK. How about Archetype.
sudgy was here and left.
Voltgloss, nay. I will not move to EFHW, given my re-read of her and VOltaire's support of it.
Seriously dude, what if there's two scum teams? Stop tunneling me. I think she's scum. Even if you think I'm scum that doesn't mean you shouldn't vote for her.
There is no indication whatsoever of two scum teams, right?? Except for the possibility of SK. There are dalek-things in the flavor but no indication of anything else.
Quit blasting thinking that's not the same as yours.
sudgy was here and left.
Could be that he didn't have time. I will universally fight finding people scummy for not being present -- life happens.
sudgy was here and left.
Could be that he didn't have time. I will universally fight finding people scummy for not being present -- life happens.
I think the opposite. People here RIGHT NOW are SO much likelier to be town.
Galz, sell me on a Ahoppy lynch? Two sentences on why he's scummy besides the lurking. I have like zero read on him, honestly. I can't see myself moving from someone I find scummy to someone I don't have a read on.can you see yourself moving from me to ahoppy? because by voting for EFHW, who isn't getting lynched, you vote for me.
because by voting for EFHW, who isn't getting lynched, you vote for me.
I actually like the point TA made, I think it's good scumhunting for D1 BUT I think he is ignoring the fact that EFHW has given significantly more content, and that is scummy to me. All things equal EFHW would be a preferable lynch but all things are not equal here.
Not enough time for Ahoppy lynch.so arch, efhw, or mcmc?
because by voting for EFHW, who isn't getting lynched, you vote for me.
Not true. More people are getting online.
wait, galz isn't voting for me anymore. nevermind. Vote: EFHW
sudgy was here and left.
Could be that he didn't have time. I will universally fight finding people scummy for not being present -- life happens.
I think the opposite. People here RIGHT NOW are SO much likelier to be town.
Eh well like, for example, I know Nkirbit is never going to be on MOnday Nights, he's always busy then, and he's not going to be on town or scum. That's just an example but it's certainly possible enough for anyone else. Real life is a null tell on alignment.
because by voting for EFHW, who isn't getting lynched, you vote for me.
Not true. More people are getting online.wait, galz isn't voting for me anymore. nevermind. Vote: EFHW
sudgy was here and left.
Could be that he didn't have time. I will universally fight finding people scummy for not being present -- life happens.
I think the opposite. People here RIGHT NOW are SO much likelier to be town.
Eh well like, for example, I know Nkirbit is never going to be on MOnday Nights, he's always busy then, and he's not going to be on town or scum. That's just an example but it's certainly possible enough for anyone else. Real life is a null tell on alignment.
Nkirbit gave an excuse and did his best and I specifically said I don't find him scummy for it.
I think I would vote Ahoppy before EFHW but he's had some decent content too, still not as good a lynch as mcmc or Lio, what is suddenly making everyone rethink these lynches?
I think I would vote Ahoppy before EFHW but he's had some decent content too, still not as good a lynch as mcmc or Lio, what is suddenly making everyone rethink these lynches?
You are seriously not wanting to vote Ahoppy, because he's had decent content, but you are okay lynching Liopoil, who's had 10x the content as Lio?
Are we reading the same game???
seriously, I HAVE SAID STUFF!!I think I would vote Ahoppy before EFHW but he's had some decent content too, still not as good a lynch as mcmc or Lio, what is suddenly making everyone rethink these lynches?
You are seriously not wanting to vote Ahoppy, because he's had decent content, but you are okay lynching Liopoil, who's had 10x the content as Lio?
Are we reading the same game???
I disagree with the description of liopoil having content. Who has he done rereads of? What cases has he made or refuted? He's been on, but content, I don't remember anything since Galzria.go read the posts of today, you aren't caught up.
I'll vote him if I have to, to save myself, but I think he's just trying to save himself here rather than being scum.
Not enough time for Ahoppy lynch.
you think it can get 7 votes????Not enough time for Ahoppy lynch.
Wrong. Plenty. Doesn't take majority. Takes plurality.
I disagree with the description of liopoil having content. Who has he done rereads of? What cases has he made or refuted? He's been on, but content, I don't remember anything since Galzria.go read the posts of today, you aren't caught up.
I'll vote him if I have to, to save myself, but I think he's just trying to save himself here rather than being scum.
TA, I think AHoppy fits the same bill as EFHW in that he's a forgotten lurker - except that EFHW hasn't actually lurked. She's made 50 posts, with good questions and good content. AHoppy doesn't have that. Sure, there's some content, but not nearly as much. And when I brought him up before I was shut down quickly by Voltaire, who said all discussion on AHoppy had happened already (there was very little upon review). His refusal to vote there now fascinates me, because their interactions have been VERY few and far between this game. I can't shake the feeling that he's protecting AHoppy - sometimes subtly, sometimes openly.
But regardless of Voltaire, I think AHoppy is exactly what you stated scum would want to be.
Did mcmc seriously leave? That makes me a lot more willing to vote for him.do it
Did mcmc seriously leave? That makes me a lot more willing to vote for him.do it
Regardless of how things go down, let's remember the people who didn't show up today (IRL today) at all. That DOES correlate with scumminess at least somewhat.I've been reading on phone, gavent had mush time to post. Homework, ugh.
I can't recall seeing shraeye in a long while. Mail-mi said he would catch up but hasn't. Who else? Ahoppy?
Galz, it's too late for Ahoppy because no one has even read her much. I certainly haven't. People have at least recently read EFHW and can weigh in on her (and mcmc, and lio).
Galz, it's too late for Ahoppy because no one has even read her much. I certainly haven't. People have at least recently read EFHW and can weigh in on her (and mcmc, and lio).
mcmc lynch is better than lio lynch. I will move back there if nothing else. lio, Voltaire, come with.oh my god. I pressed the post button on my claim post and saw this as a PPE. like, woah.
lio, do not claim.
Galz, it's too late for Ahoppy because no one has even read her much. I certainly haven't. People have at least recently read EFHW and can weigh in on her (and mcmc, and lio).
He has all of what, 17 posts? Grrr
Galz, it's too late for Ahoppy because no one has even read her much. I certainly haven't. People have at least recently read EFHW and can weigh in on her (and mcmc, and lio).
He has all of what, 17 posts? Grrr
Ok there is more content to Lio than I was remembering but it's still not a lot. Not as much as EFHW IMO and he has been inconsistent about chairs. My vote stands. (But I would be willing to switch to mcmc)
Vote Count 1.33:
liopoil (7): Robz888, shraeye, AHoppy, Dsell, faust, sudgy, Galz
nkirbit (1): bocaJ
sudgy (1): Eevee
mcmc (7): EFHW, Walrus, mail-mi, Archetype, chairs, TA, lio
chairs (1): nkirbit
EFHW (3): Voltgloss, Voltiare, mcmcsaolot
Not Voting (0):
With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch.
Day 1 ends on September 23 at 9:22 p.m.
~ 8 minutes until deadline
N1 Greendale Glee Concert:
L Street (11): liopoil, faust, EFHW, Robz888, Voltaire, mcmc, Eevee, Ahoppy, Dsell, shraeye, nkirbit
The Red Door (8): Walrus, mail-mi, sudgy, Twistedarcher, Archetype, chairs, Galzria, Voltgloss
TA why do you not consider that there was no support b/c there was no case? No one is jumping on the Ahoppy wagon. Does that make him scum? With all the people on, if I had scumbuddies just one or two would have to move to liopoil to ensure my safety.
Vote: liopoil
Sorry, wanted AH instead. Volt refused it.
Ok there is more content to Lio than I was remembering but it's still not a lot. Not as much as EFHW IMO and he has been inconsistent about chairs. My vote stands. (But I would be willing to switch to mcmc)
Another hedgy, scummy post by Dsell. This one makes me think both Mcmc and Lio are town.
Vote: liopoil
Sorry, wanted AH instead. Volt refused it.
Anger. Do not blame the IC for your refusal to budge meaningfully from lio's wagon. I did not make that decision for you. You made it.
Vote: liopoil
Sorry, wanted AH instead. Volt refused it.
Anger. Do not blame the IC for your refusal to budge meaningfully from lio's wagon. I did not make that decision for you. You made it.
No, you did. There was time. Others were listening. You stated no. End of story.
Vote: liopoil
Sorry, wanted AH instead. Volt refused it.
Anger. Do not blame the IC for your refusal to budge meaningfully from lio's wagon. I did not make that decision for you. You made it.
No, you did. There was time. Others were listening. You stated no. End of story.
Who was listening.
whew. The thing is, I really shouldn't be feeling relieved, because this is still probably a mislynch...
At very VERY least this scramble gives us more data to pore over tomorrow.especially eevee.
Huge FoS to people who were viewing and did not post. I was checking "Who's Online." You all know I am confirmed town and I have no reason to lie about people who were here and did not chime in. Remember this tomorrow if I get killed during the night.
Vote: EeveeGood thing I dodged that bullet, let's now carry on and find a quality day 2 lynch!
The man who should have gone down before deadline on Day 1.
Vote: Eevee
The man who should have gone down before deadline on Day 1.
Vote: EeveeTo be more serious, I assume a big part of your suspicion on me is me being there a couple hours before but then missing the deadline. I'm sorry, I needed to go help a friend unexpectedly. Fwiw I would have spoken against a liopoil lynch, preferring either mcmc or efhw (whom I never got to rereading).
The man who should have gone down before deadline on Day 1.
Inviting or not inviting dede is almost definitely another flavor victory battle, but I wonder if it could also have an in-game consequence? I know this isn't rmm, but thematically I would expect inviting or not inviting her stirring different sort of trouble for town.
I see no reason to vote yet anyways, better to see if someone have something to say about. I do agree it's pretty likely just what you say it is though.Inviting or not inviting dede is almost definitely another flavor victory battle, but I wonder if it could also have an in-game consequence? I know this isn't rmm, but thematically I would expect inviting or not inviting her stirring different sort of trouble for town.
I am pretty sure it's just flavor. It's just a secondary win condition for me. Same thing as the Red Door / L St or whatever.
Good shot, Vig/SK. Man, shraeye must be sick of rolling scum.
nkirbit is an interesting scumkill choice. I can see the logic behind it, but it's still not who I expected to turn up dead. Which makes me a bit more suspicious of those who I did expect to turn up dead. I'll say who... later.
Glad to see I did the right thing in turning the nkirbit lynch around!
I think Eevee was here during the final hour or so, and didn't post. Doublechecking now. (There were a few people in that category.)
I think Eevee was here during the final hour or so, and didn't post. Doublechecking now. (There were a few people in that category.)I don't know how it works with cell phones, I wasn't ever on the forums but I'm sure I used my phone a couple of times. As I said, I would have contributed to the town lynch we got anyways, I'm admitting my responsibility in us lynching town.
I don't agree with finding people scummy for being alive. Scum have an incentive to kill the people who DON'T expect to turn up dead, since those people are the people who get doctored and watched. Finding people scummy for not turning up dead, especially when there's 19 people alive, seems pretty far-fetched to me. Who exactly are you talking about? You are the IC and know best, but I see no reason to withhold who you find scummy...
Vote: Invite DeedeeSay you'll go to the poetry slam, and I'll vote.
This is my secondary win condition. Anyone who helps me will have my support in fulfilling their secondary win condition later on.
Vote: EeveeTo be more serious, I assume a big part of your suspicion on me is me being there a couple hours before but then missing the deadline. I'm sorry, I needed to go help a friend unexpectedly. Fwiw I would have spoken against a liopoil lynch, preferring either mcmc or efhw (whom I never got to rereading).
The man who should have gone down before deadline on Day 1.
Vote: Eevee
The man who should have gone down before deadline on Day 1.
Once again, I disagree with you on this. Someone being away from deadline has no impact on alignment. Hell, I would think scum would want to be here even MORE than town, just so they aren't called out and can make sure the lynch doesn't land on a partner. Why is Eevee scummy exactly? Just for not being here?
Good shot, Vig/SK. Man, shraeye must be sick of rolling scum.
nkirbit is an interesting scumkill choice. I can see the logic behind it, but it's still not who I expected to turn up dead. Which makes me a bit more suspicious of those who I did expect to turn up dead. I'll say who... later.
Glad to see I did the right thing in turning the nkirbit lynch around!
I don't agree with finding people scummy for being alive. Scum have an incentive to kill the people who DON'T expect to turn up dead, since those people are the people who get doctored and watched. Finding people scummy for not turning up dead, especially when there's 19 people alive, seems pretty far-fetched to me. Who exactly are you talking about? You are the IC and know best, but I see no reason to withhold who you find scummy...
I don't agree with finding people scummy for being alive. Scum have an incentive to kill the people who DON'T expect to turn up dead, since those people are the people who get doctored and watched. Finding people scummy for not turning up dead, especially when there's 19 people alive, seems pretty far-fetched to me. Who exactly are you talking about? You are the IC and know best, but I see no reason to withhold who you find scummy...
TA, in LOTR 2 when you were IC and I was scum, one of the things I felt was most important for me to figure out was who you found scummy.
Hey, I'm always right about shraeye! (because of confirmation bias, shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh) so that's cool. Unfortunately I was also right about mcmc. But that's fine.
Is Galz an IC now? Unless someone else claims Enabler, that's how I see it.
I'll need to re-read with our flips now. I actually feel really freaking good about town's chances right now.
Yes. Other people who missed the deadline--like nkirbit--gave excuses. Just showing up for the deadline is I feel pretty townie, and they get some points that you don't.
Oh and also, whats this "I was right about shraeye!" nonsense?
Yes. Other people who missed the deadline--like nkirbit--gave excuses. Just showing up for the deadline is I feel pretty townie, and they get some points that you don't.
Just being online gets townpoints? That's really an arbitrary reason to give people town points. I really do think it's more likely that a scum gets paranoid about being called out for not being here, and makes darn sure they're online. But honestly being online is pretty neutral of alignment, I would think.
Oh and also, whats this "I was right about shraeye!" nonsense?
Oh and also, whats this "I was right about shraeye!" nonsense?
Directed at Voltaire^
Yes. Other people who missed the deadline--like nkirbit--gave excuses. Just showing up for the deadline is I feel pretty townie, and they get some points that you don't.
Just being online gets townpoints? That's really an arbitrary reason to give people town points. I really do think it's more likely that a scum gets paranoid about being called out for not being here, and makes darn sure they're online. But honestly being online is pretty neutral of alignment, I would think.
Well you're wrong. USUALLy we don't lynch without giving a chance for a claim, so if you aren't around, you can't claim, and if we can't get your claim, we don't lynch you. This is far from universal or exact, but it happens.
Oh and also, whats this "I was right about shraeye!" nonsense?
Just compiled this list:
People to vote for Shraeye: Voltaire, Sudgy, Mail-mi, Sudgy, Walrus, Faust, Chairs, Chairs, Voltaire, Sudgy.
So yeah, Voltaire was right about Shraeye. He more seriously pushed Shraeye than anyone else.
I'd say Galzria is like 100% Town. Voltaire possible too, but shraeye and him butted heads like this in WWTWDP.
I guess all achetype said is that it's possible Voltaire is town, hard to disagree there.I'd say Galzria is like 100% Town. Voltaire possible too, but shraeye and him butted heads like this in WWTWDP.
I agree that Galz is very likely town. But how is Voltaire anywhere close to confirmed town?
I'd say Galzria is like 100% Town. Voltaire possible too, but shraeye and him butted heads like this in WWTWDP.
I'd say Galzria is like 100% Town. Voltaire possible too, but shraeye and him butted heads like this in WWTWDP.
Voltgloss, nay. I will not move to EFHW, given my re-read of her and VOltaire's support of it.
Seriously dude, what if there's two scum teams? Stop tunneling me. I think she's scum. Even if you think I'm scum that doesn't mean you shouldn't vote for her.
Well, shraeye was breathing down his neck yesterday. This either means he was bussing or Voltaire is Town. I'm not saying that he's 100% town, but it's possible. But I think shraye's death gave more clues about his alignment than anyone else's.I'd say Galzria is like 100% Town. Voltaire possible too, but shraeye and him butted heads like this in WWTWDP.
I agree that Galz is very likely town. But how is Voltaire anywhere close to confirmed town?
I distinctly remember you two going at each other. I may need to dig up quotes from the game.I'd say Galzria is like 100% Town. Voltaire possible too, but shraeye and him butted heads like this in WWTWDP.
No we didn't? I think we may have had one snippy exchange D1 and that was it.
walrus repeatedly writing long posts where he actually doesn't really say anything is starting to creep up a suspicion from me.
I'll Vote: Walrus. I was a bit suspicious of him yesterday. I'm also surprised he didn't mention looking at shraye's interactions.
Also if Voltaire is a Serial Killer, it makes sense he shot shraeye, since OMG he was SO certain shraeye was scum all day.
I distinctly remember you two going at each other. I may need to dig up quotes from the game.I'd say Galzria is like 100% Town. Voltaire possible too, but shraeye and him butted heads like this in WWTWDP.
No we didn't? I think we may have had one snippy exchange D1 and that was it.
Robz, what's the case for Eevee being scum besides him not being there for deadline?
Vote: Invite DeedeeSay you'll go to the poetry slam, and I'll vote.
This is my secondary win condition. Anyone who helps me will have my support in fulfilling their secondary win condition later on.
My guess is 2 scumteams. one from MF and one for Com. So I think one shot shraeye, and one shot nkirbit. Though if there is a Vig that shot (don't claim!), that almost throws this theory out the window.Also if Voltaire is a Serial Killer, it makes sense he shot shraeye, since OMG he was SO certain shraeye was scum all day.
This makes a heck of a lot of sense.
Does it make sense if there's 2 scum teams rather than 1 team / SK? Does a scum team want to shoot for other scum or town N1?
Yay!Vote: Invite DeedeeSay you'll go to the poetry slam, and I'll vote.
This is my secondary win condition. Anyone who helps me will have my support in fulfilling their secondary win condition later on.
I will go to the poetry slam.
Also, any guesses as to why lio switched out?
...of the game?Also, any guesses as to why lio switched out?
Switched out what?
I did not mean to say I dislike the length of your posts or your playstyle!
It's the content, I can't quite put my finger on it but somehow I feel you are making a lot of effort to sound townie and interested in helping town.
got replaced by jorbles.Also, any guesses as to why lio switched out?
Switched out what?
.
Please note, Jorbles has replaced liopoil.
[/b]
Volt, make the call for if I should jump. But remember this happened. I think EFHW is scum. I still want a town quickhammer.
I agree with Voltgloss. He should not steer things. An IC steering thing takes away decisions from players, and decisions are how we analyze who's scum. Saying "tell me who I should consider voting for!" not only lowers the odds but also causes scum players to disguise their votes more easily.His second time suggesting that people just wait for Voltgloss to steer us. It's a perfect cover for scum who aren't sure which direction to go and want some built-in excuses for whatever way they go. Suggestions like these make me surer of my vote on Voltaire. I think other people need to give him a serious look.
I'd be super cool with voting Voltaire, liopoil, Twisted, faust. FoS on Walrus and sudgy. Other people I've probably mentioned along the way.
Archetype - But there's very little here. Virtually no reads/stances etc. But nothing bad, I guess either.EFHW's not a he. But what I mean to say about these quotes is that these are exactly the people I'm the most worried about. Don't remember much, they did this and that, no arguments that stick out or ruffle feathers.
- EFHW - Very little here. I can bias myself to read his posts as scum easily positioning on various wagons, or town who does not have strong convictions. But I could be very happy with a vote here.
Archetype - But there's very little here. Virtually no reads/stances etc. But nothing bad, I guess either.EFHW's not a he. But what I mean to say about these quotes is that these are exactly the people I'm the most worried about. Don't remember much, they did this and that, no arguments that stick out or ruffle feathers.
- EFHW - Very little here. I can bias myself to read his posts as scum easily positioning on various wagons, or town who does not have strong convictions. But I could be very happy with a vote here.
EFHWhedgily agrees with me here, but maybe not about these specific players?[/list]
I agree with Voltgloss. He should not steer things. An IC steering thing takes away decisions from players, and decisions are how we analyze who's scum. Saying "tell me who I should consider voting for!" not only lowers the odds but also causes scum players to disguise their votes more easily.His second time suggesting that people just wait for Voltgloss to steer us. It's a perfect cover for scum who aren't sure which direction to go and want some built-in excuses for whatever way they go. Suggestions like these make me surer of my vote on Voltaire. I think other people need to give him a serious look.
Hey guys, scum made this argument against me. FtotheYI.
Shraeye famously doesn't give reads lists, which makes this tricky. But there was this postI'd be super cool with voting Voltaire, liopoil, Twisted, faust. FoS on Walrus and sudgy. Other people I've probably mentioned along the way.
This argument frustrates me. "you made a case with stretches on day1! must be scum!" Cases will always contain stretches expecially day1 cases, because people just don't come out and say that thye're scum. This is just how scumhunting works, you read what is available, and try to fill in a subtext. I really really dislike people FoSing others who are trying to do regular-stuff scumhunting. So reverse-FOS:liopoil
So, he very well could be scum (after all, he IS lurking and mcmc DOES lurk more as scum, and #5 isn't nothing), but most of your case is bad and making large stretches, and looks like you are trying to make it look better than it really is. FoS: EFHW
But as you yourself said, just because scum said something doesn't mean it's wrong, because you say there are two scum factions.
unvote
sudgy - on reread, I see more than I recalled. not a good lynch for today, will reassess in the future.
EFHW - I strongly disagree with her 'lynch Galz because he's probably enabling scum' stance; she's the first to look back at mcmc and try to assesss thigns. Also, I'm unclear on your 'reread of chairs'. Could you explain more what you're saying about his game so far? But FoS on the people who say she's not scumhunting (i think nkirbit falls into this category. I think she's put in a lot of work over teh last two days, getting ready for deadline/day-end. protown.
chairs - i stand by my assessment of chairs v. mailmi as town v. town. i'm against this lynch.
liopoil - first to dive into secondary win-con. i disagree with 'getting it out of the way'. just ignore it, and focus on the game, which will be tough enough with our large numbers. wordy explanation that basically adds nothing new to the Galz-discussion, behind which he hides his vote; that be scummy. says that we shouldn't think too much of the lurking arguments, but IS interested in lynching mcmcs for lurking. I don't like this stance at all. Hiding behind Voltgloss's list; trying to attack EFHW's day1 case for 'stretching'. scummy scummy.
Eevee - nothing stands out. He agreed with me early, had a townread on somebody else early. despite townreads he's gaining, he's not supporting those players too much it seems. Really, he seems the most to be the 'leaf in the wind' follow where sentiments go character. A topic comes up, and Eevee says his opinion. Then he puts it behind him. He's just not moving the game forward, and is only following along.
Robz - being loud, being frustrated, but I can't tell to what end. It just looks like loud for loud's sake, and I don't like htat. being against claiming is cool; I'm against claiming. But you don't have to yell it all the frekin' time. Interaction with Voltgloss's thoughts posts is reasonable. Robz doen'st immediately sheep; sometimes agrees sometimes disagrees. I see some pros and cons to overall Robz, could be swayed but not loving it.
Walrus - newbies are harder for me to read, i can see some good contributions, a few jokes, and some more empty comments. Suspicious, but not enough to want his lynch day1. he's shown enough thought to warrent day1 newbie pass by me.
vote: liopoil
EFHW is not scum.
EFHW is not scum..
Vote: Voltaire
I would also vote Eevee, possibly TA at this point.
bocaJ:
A) I agree(d) 100% with Robz asking for Doctor protection, and would've done so myself (for him) had I thought of it.
B) I wasn't on EFHW, I was on Sudgy. I moved to liopoil. I refused to move to EFHW when it was "demanded", and instead offered a much more likely candidate to be scum (AHoppy) based purely on the criteria that TA was supposedly interested in (lurking, didn't have suspicion). EFHW had almost 50 posts. AHoppy had 15. EFHW asked questions and took stances. AHoppy did, but less so. AHoppy had gotten as little (or less) attention as EFHW. Voltaire and TA were completely uninterested (big surprise).
I'm sure that I fall into the category of people who watched but didn't post in the final hours. For me personally, that was a case of "I'm at work and I can watch this drama unfold, but there's no way I can meaningfully participate right now."
Also, seriously, there were like 8 million posts being made per second. If I tried to reply, there would be 20 more before I would finish a draft. It was like the goddamn New York Stock Exchange with votes flying everywhere. I honestly couldn't keep up, and I kind of like to make long, measured replies that address all the issues of the moment. I was happy with my vote, although disappointed to see the flip of course. I wish he would have like claimed or something. I guess a good place to start looking next might be people who voted for mcmc (yes, I know that's me too but still), there was possibly scum on that train, maybe? But even now I'm on my phone and I gotta go, so I'll think about it and cast a vote later.
Oh, and I'm doing vote: no invite because I already lost my secondary wincon and I'm feeling bitter [/grumpycat]
I haven't had time for a reread yet, and I'll be busy until the weekend, so hopefully I can do one then. I just have one thing: Could shraeye have been killed by bocaJ, the paranoid gun owner? Maybe he thought that being a ninja would get him past the gun and kill someone we all believe to be town. Seems like a long shot to me, but still a possibility. And can someone remind me what macho townie means? Not that it really matters...
Now to the second flip – nkirbit. Generally, I tend to find the people giving him a town read townier – because hey, scum lynched nkirbit, so they must have been worried that some town members find nkirbit townie. The list of people finding nkirbit townie includes:
Twistedarcher (many posts, for example #756), Eevee (#1154) and Robz (#919)
More specific interactions:Twistedarcher: This really stands out. TA opposes the nkirbit wagon from the beginning (#728, #744, #756, #786). But I thought then and think now that his reasons for that were weak, and there was some misleading going on. Also note that scum!shraeye states that he gets „good vibes“ from TA for that (#830). Then, after Voltgloss' defense of nkirbit, TA has a „yay, the IC agrees with me“-post (#889). All in all, this really seems like scum playing for towncred.
Walrus: He doesn't jump on the „scumslip“, says he can understand it (#510). Then he votes nkirbit with not much more reasoning than „it's the only viable wagon“ (#745). After Voltgloss' post, he changes his vote „for the sake of town solidarity“ (#955). Much sheeping here. I'm leaning scum.
Voltaire: Says he buys nkirbit's „scumslip“ explanation (#518). Later he repeatedly defends people for being on nkirbit's wagon (#755, #768). I don't get a lot from that. As nkirbit was town, defending people voting for him seems a little bit scummy.
BocaJ: Votes nkirbit for the „slip“ (#591) and is the only one never to change that. I'm seeing town here. As a newbie, I can understand people wanting to vote on some „hard“ basis rather than „but XY is acting exactly like in that other game where he was scum!“
Liopoil/Jorbles: Defends nkirbits „scumslip“ (#491). Comes back after Voltgloss' post and calls the nkirbit wagon „silly“ (#941), which of course is an easy position to take once the IC has weighed in. I'm not really getting anything from that.
So from that, I get a town read on Eevee, Robz and bocaJ, and a scum read on Twistedarcher and Walrus (and a little bit Voltaire).
This is exhausting. I might take a little break before I look at the last (and probably most interesting) flip.
Looking back, I note that scum!shraeye was completely silent on the whole nkirbit "scumslip" wagon. Like, I don't think he said anything about that topic.
What conclusions can we draw from that regarding whether shraeye's scumpartner(s) were on or off that wagon?
So, you find myself, Walrus, and Voltaire (the people who everyone else has already said today they think they could lynch) scummy, while finding everyone who hasn't gotten any pressure today towny.I have not considered today's actions in this, honestly. Above that, what you're saying is not even true. Eevee has already been under suspicion.
As I said multiple times, I found Nkirbit's actions null-to-slightly-towny, and the fact that everyone was jumping on actions that to me seemed null gave me a huge town read on Nkirbit. People on his wagon were trying to paint him as scummy from actions that just weren't scummy.
Votes on EFHW leading up to deadline:
Voltgloss
Voltaire
mcmc
liopoil
TA
With the exception of mcmc, who was voting to save himself as much as anything else at that point, the people on EFHW were the same people on mcmc. If EFHW were scum, it stands to reason that her scummates would not all of a sudden, out of nowhere, throw a whole lot of weight her way as a snap decision at deadline. Not to... save mcmc, the townie.
So, either you buy that the entire list above is town, who altogether collectively lynched town, OR, you accept that EFHW is likely town herself.
Further, EFHW was one of the few people who actively supported me in the theory that "IF I enable scum, town wants me dead ASAP". If she is Shraeye's partner, in what universe does that make any sense whatsover? Why in the world would she sit there pushing MY lynch, post claim, knowing full well that it would strip her team of a power? What does she gain from it? Town!cred? Not really....
If she's Shraeye's partner, then lynching me would've been absolutely wrong. There's no way she forsee's Shraeye's death, and certainly can't make some grand, master plan about it on the fly midday.
So from where I'm standing: EFHW is town. No other way about it.
TA, what about galz's second point - that efhw wanted yo lynch galz because of his claim?
I remember reading on MafiaScum about some role where you had to switch out the person playing the role in the course of the game. For the life of me I can't remember what it was. I doubt that's what we have in lio/Jorbles but I think it's worth looking in to and I can't find it. Any help is appreciated.
Big ol' post coming up this morning.
I remember reading on MafiaScum about some role where you had to switch out the person playing the role in the course of the game. For the life of me I can't remember what it was. I doubt that's what we have in lio/Jorbles but I think it's worth looking in to and I can't find it. Any help is appreciated.
Lio: Switching his vote from EFHW to Ahoppy at the last minute at post 1449, then claiming that the EFHW lynch was not happening, despite EFHW being tied for the lead in vote count. On top of that, if you’re worried about lynch viability, why change to a target that has only one other vote? He did switch back when called on it. When I first read this, I gave it a very high scum read, though now I give it more of a moderate read. Also, Lio made several posts claiming that he thinks this is a mislynch, which really sounds like pandering for town cred. Strong scum read. Also, if scum, it would also implicate EFHW (moving vote away from scum-buddies?).
shraeye, as enabled scum, responded to Galz's claim by arguing that Galz should not be lynched and instead should be left alive for scum WIFOM purposes. He also reacted strongly and adversely to the prospect of someone vigging Galz.
Who else reacted in similar way(s)?
I remember reading on MafiaScum about some role where you had to switch out the person playing the role in the course of the game. For the life of me I can't remember what it was. I doubt that's what we have in lio/Jorbles but I think it's worth looking in to and I can't find it. Any help is appreciated.
Big ol' post coming up this morning.
This argument doesn't work when you look closer at those 5 people:
Voltgloss: IC
Mcmc: Town
Liopoil: Just wanted a lynched that wasn't himself
TA: Town read on Lio, Scum read on EFHW, would have lynched most people over Lio. Also found EFHW scummy most of the day.
Voltaire: Found EFHW scummy most of the day.
So, we have 2 confirmed town on that wagon, the alternate target, and 2 people who had been finding EFHW scummy for awhile. The argument that EFHW must be town because there's 5 people who were willing to jump to her just doesn't hold water when you break town the individuals -- the only people I think you could even find slightly suspicious are myself and Voltaire, and we both had found EFHW scummy.
You're really misrepresenting the argument by saying "FIVE people were willing to lynch EFHW! She must be town!" when 2/5 were confirmed town and 1/5 was the alternate lynch.
shraeye, as enabled scum, responded to Galz's claim by arguing that Galz should not be lynched and instead should be left alive for scum WIFOM purposes. He also reacted strongly and adversely to the prospect of someone vigging Galz.
Who else reacted in similar way(s)?
I think it's more interesting who reacted in opposite ways as scum often try to position themselves on opposing sides of an issue.
Further, for only being ~250 people into the game, it's pretty impressive that he's already "eliminated" 3 people from his "willing to lynch list". Especially because up to this point, he's had all of 0 interactions with one of them (TwistedArcher).
After that re-read, my lynch pool is actually much smaller, which makes me very happy. It's currently
Eevee
Robz
mail-mi
chairs
shraeye
EFHW
nkirbit
Dsell
bocaJ
xeiron
which actually has me feeling pretty great! I recommend this as our lynch pool today barring further developments. Here's why I eliminated people:
Voltgloss - IC
TA - posting lots, if scum will leave clues
Galzria - the claim has bought him the day, basically. Still trying to sort through this though.
Voltaire - me!
mcmc - has given me strong town vibes
sudgy - posting lots, if scum will leave clues
Walrus - has given me strong town vibes
AHoppy - has given me strong town vibes
Archetype - has given me strong town vibes
faust - posting lots, if scum will leave clues AND has given me a town vibe
liopoil - posting lots, if scum will leave clues ALTHOUGH has given me a scum vibe
Alright, here we are 355 posts into the game (and that includes pre-game, which I'm not subtracting out). That's a hell of a list to have formed already, especially because there isn't any actual justification to ANY of it. "mcmc - has given me strong town vibes", "Walrus - has given me strong town vibes", "AHoppy - has given me strong town vibes", "Archetype - has given me strong town vibes". Many of the listed players, he's had very little to no interaction with whatsoever. And mcmc? How many posts did he have? Strong town vibe? There's no justification for any of these reads. It's just a list. He likes to claim that (and we'll see this later) "He was doing what Voltgloss was doing long before Voltgloss was doing it" - but this isn't what Voltgloss is/was doing at all. This is putting together a list of names with no justification to be "scum suspects" and "town reads". It's arbitrary.
the entire Dsell situation was quoted here. Removed for brevity. Click through if you need to read it again
This is his response to my above point, and I find it -very- lackluster. Further, this post is #604, and it wasn't until #618 that he actually put together an explanation that -might- make some sense. And I honestly don't see it still. In any case, it took him 8 posts after #604 to actually state what his intent and point supposedly was. More than ever, it feels like he's trying to justify fake cases and reads, instead of making real ones.
Bolding here for emphasis on this point: This is a big one to me, and Voltgloss I'm surprised you didn't get it considering how well you scan when you're scum. Voltaire makes it clear that he's gathering as much information on flavor from people as he can. Voltgloss, you nailed Archetype as both Weak, and Doctor in LoTR2 because you were looking for information dumps. That is, you weren't busy actually scum hunting, so you spent your time player hunting, or role hunting. This is exactly what I see Voltaire doing based on his statement above. This isn't condemning him for playing the game, this is saying "He's playing the game in a manner consistent with scum, not town".
I agree with Robz that we're veering into accidental D1 fullclaiming. And that it is terrible.This post is odd to me because at the time he made it (19th), it was only Thursday, and the stated deadline was Friday. Why the pressure? Further, he's simultaneously saying that none of his reads are strong (something he hasn't at all hinted at in any of his earlier posts), but maintains an effort to direct the lynch to a list that's been pretty consistent since very early in the game. His "reads" haven't evolved at all except when they've been forced to (Xeiron's flip, bocaJ's claim, etc).
I still see both the town!Galz and scum!Galz cases. Because there's more than 1 scum out there (boy, I sure hope so) I don't want him to be the lynch today anyway.
My "would lynch" list keeps morphing, but I think we've blown our soft deadline to shreds at this point. We do need to end this day soon, as it's starting to get bloated. I have no strong convictions anymore. I'm keeping my vote on shraeye since he also has votes. I think at this point I will also happily vote for Eevee, chairs, EFHW, nkirbit, or Dsell.
Ground control to Voltgloss! Ground control to Voltgloss! Come in Voltgloss! What do you think of this?
It is bizarre to me how unabashedly Voltaire is exalting and buddying with Voltgloss. I am glad that I'm not the only one irked by Voltaire this game.
I agree that he is not the right lynch for today, but I find his behavior scummy. I think scum who is sheeping a little too much (so they can't be held accountable) and then is called out for it would choose to either:
Back off and downplay it or
Continue in even greater measure (flying in the face of those calling you out)
I believe the second is happening here. Voltaire is relentlessly siding with Voltgloss and I don't like it.
I remember reading on MafiaScum about some role where you had to switch out the person playing the role in the course of the game. For the life of me I can't remember what it was. I doubt that's what we have in lio/Jorbles but I think it's worth looking in to and I can't find it. Any help is appreciated.
Are you thinking of Judas (or Saulus)? A town- (or scum-) aligned role who, upon death, is not declared dead but instead replaced by a new player who has the opposite alignment.
What's the benefit, chairs? Will you be able to confirm yourself as town? Others as town?
I will be able to verify some Town members. Show claiming is a requirement to enable this.
What's the benefit, chairs? Will you be able to confirm yourself as town? Others as town?
I will be able to verify some Town members. Show claiming is a requirement to enable this.
What's the benefit, chairs? Will you be able to confirm yourself as town? Others as town?
I will be able to verify some Town members. Show claiming is a requirement to enable this.
Can you verify anybody as Town amongst those who have already show claimed (or whose shows can be deduced from their comments to date)?
liopoil/Jorbles already showclaimed as Modern Family.
Let me make that bold, so nobody misses it.
I am a Cop. I need show claims before I can explain a limitation I have regarding my Cop power.
can the mods edit community spoilers out of galz' post?
I am here to play a mafia game, not have a tv show I'm partway though spoiled.
Apologies TA. If I could've easily linked like I did with MF, I would've done so.
Still, I think that ignoring character personalities could be detrimental to finding scum, as I doubt that you'll see "slimy" type characters as town, and "sweet innocent" characters as scum. Flavor matters, and I suspect Ash and Yuma will have tried their best to be as thematic as possible.
It's ok, the first sentence I read going through it was the last one of pierces description which spoiled the season 4 finale. No idea if anything else is in there, it seems clean, but that was the major spoiler I was frustrated at seeing.
To be fair, the character descriptions provided may help if we have a flavor cop (like I was in Innovation).
It is my contention that it is more likely than not that there are flavor-based roles (I believe this because of the statement in post 2 of this thread where it is stated quite explicitly that flavor is extremely important). For example, we may have a Hider who dies if they're behind the wrong show, or a Cop who only knows alignments of their own shows. Maybe the dad's a jailkeeper but only for his family (are either of these shows families? I see a lot of "Dunphy" names).
I also know the shows (roles even for a few) of about 5 people, I guess I have picking up on less than Voltaire has. But I agree that scum already know a lot more so claiming isn't terrible. If chairs can use it to towns advantage then I say go for it. Mine should already be clear anyways.
I am a Cop. I need show claims before I can explain a limitation I have regarding my Cop power.
But can I point out that you are doing to me the same thing you say Galz is doing to you?
It is bizarre to me how unabashedly Voltaire is exalting and buddying with Voltgloss. I am glad that I'm not the only one irked by Voltaire this game.
I agree that he is not the right lynch for today, but I find his behavior scummy. I think scum who is sheeping a little too much (so they can't be held accountable) and then is called out for it would choose to either:
Back off and downplay it or
Continue in even greater measure (flying in the face of those calling you out)
I believe the second is happening here. Voltaire is relentlessly siding with Voltgloss and I don't like it.
This is the finest example of what is going on. Dsell doesn't even consider the third option: I am town. He's decided I'm scum, so he's trying to think through what kind of scum I am.
TA, what about galz's second point - that efhw wanted yo lynch galz because of his claim?
Initially it does look like a fair point (I need to I reread what he's talking about when I'm not on my phone). However, as someone said, I wouldexpect scum to fall on multiple sides of any issue, including this one. So someone saying that galz should be killed would not make them close to confirmed townie.
TA, what about galz's second point - that efhw wanted yo lynch galz because of his claim?
Initially it does look like a fair point (I need to I reread what he's talking about when I'm not on my phone). However, as someone said, I wouldexpect scum to fall on multiple sides of any issue, including this one. So someone saying that galz should be killed would not make them close to confirmed townie.
This is wrong. The event of my lynch is not some arbitrary decision. There's no WIFOM to play because she couldn't know that Shraeye was going to die. The WIFOM that you're suggesting only makes sense post-death of Shraeye, when we can look back and say "scum wouldn't have pushed to hurt their own team". If Shraeye is still alive today, this conversation wouldn't be happening, and thus her stance to see me dead D1 makes no sense (if she's scum)
Galz, does any of that factor in the possibility of two scum teams?
chairs:
1. Did you target anyone last night? DO NOT SAY WHO. Just "yes" or "no."
2. If the person you targeted showclaims, will you be able to tell us their alignment?
Hrmg.
Of the people alive, I count 5 or 6 whose shows have been revealed or can plausibly be determined. (Not including myself.) A few from each show. I suppose then that, even if chairs were some type of scum who wants to specifically target players from a certain show, he already has targets to last him through at least a couple of nights.
Does anyone have specific reason to believe showclaiming is a BAD idea?
I will be able to verify some Town members. Show claiming is a requirement to enable this.
I am ok with this. Of the 17 of us alive, I know the shows of 8 of us. Scum will know more than me since they know their own and their partners. I view this as very low downside.
I can't think of a problem with show claiming, as things currently are.
@chairs: Once you have the information, how many assumptions would you have to make to get the conclusion of your target's alignment? For example, do you have to assume ashersky would or wouldn't do something, or that there are no confusing roles like busdrivers or jailkeepers, or that scum!target would or wouldn't have done something?
It seems like a lot of times people come out with theories they are ready to act on, but which actually depend on too many assumptions to be relied on. xeiron did that in Shakespeare, for example.
Shakespeare had a number of lover pairs. xeiron used comments made by players to infer if they were lovers or not, and came up with 3 people he was certain were scum. He didn't explain his reasoning, but did explain his conclusions. In that case because his reasoning, once revealed, seemed so scummy, he and his lover got mislynched. Something similar happened with him in Innovation, actually. I feel like there have been other, less dramatic, recent examples with other players, but they aren't coming to me right now.
I remember one example - chairs said yuma could be cleared in LOTR2 b/c he fed him dinner. But this was dismissed by many people b/c they could have cooked (haha) up the plan in the QT. That's why I asked sudgy about whether his claim could be dismissed in the same way. I'm not saying chairs shouldn't have claimed, b/c I don't remember the circumstances well enough, I just think caution is in order.
I haven't followed flavor very closely, so I'm really not sure how many people already publicized this information.
But anyway I'm pretty inclined to be cautious here. Don't you think scum could have powers that benefit from knowing flavor roles? What if chairs is scum and is doing this for that reason?
I disagree with faust re: Eevee. I reread him, and of course there is nothing overtly scummy, but it is uncanny how he participates just enough without actually getting involved in any of the larger debates taking place. Also, he was not at the soft deadline, but WAS online at the time. The same was true of TA.Well, I didn't mean to say that Eevee behaviour is completely townie, I'm just saying that his interactions with the dead players give me a town vibe.
I definitely hear this concern, Robz. I remember well being Death (SK) in Major Arcana Mafia I, where a mass suitclaim (roughly equivalent to showclaims here) would have been a huge boon to me.What just came to my mind - isn't this true for town!chairs as well? So if he really is a cop and need to know the show of his target to be useful, why go all the way and claim to force a mass showclaim? As you already said, he has enough targets for several nights.
The thing is... we already HAVE about a third of the town whose shows are already claimed and/or easily inferred. So if chairs is scum looking to identify people from Show X or Show Y, well, he's already accomplished that - at least well enough to give him targets for several nights.
Argh, of course a have forgotten the most notable thing about shraeye: He states twice (#561 and #1001) that mail-mi vs. chairs is town vs. town. This makes me think that one of them could well be scum.
Actually this makes me think that mail-mi vs chairs IS town v town. Scum would know that with certainty.Well, not if there are multiple factions. But you're right, this is also a possibility. The only case where I don't see shraeye stating this is when both chairs and mail-mi are scum.
Although... well, wait. My show is disclosed up front. A scumpower like Robz described basically means I am utterly defenseless, and - I assume - would have made me a Night 1 casualty.
chairs, do you absolutely have to have EVERYONE'S showclaims for your role to be at all effective? Like, if everyone but one person showclaims, are you truly unable to tell us the alignment of ANYONE you have targeted?
I am semi-Naive. I will never get guilty results on one of the shows, even if that person is guilty.Why don't you just investigate those people whose show you already know?
Hence my desire for a full show claim now, before it's obvious which show.
I am semi-Naive. I will never get guilty results on one of the shows, even if that person is guilty.
Hence my desire for a full show claim now, before it's obvious which show.
I am semi-Naive. I will never get guilty results on one of the shows, even if that person is guilty.
Hence my desire for a full show claim now, before it's obvious which show.
Or why don't you just ask the person you investigated to show claim?
Oh... I see, for future days, yeah, you want to only set out to investigate people of the correct show. Yeah, okay.Only that I'm not sure how many future days there will be for chairs with this claim...
I don't feel good about chairs' claim. So we have two cops, in addition to the other PRs already outed? This doesn't seem likely.
I don't feel good about chairs' claim. So we have two cops, in addition to the other PRs already outed? This doesn't seem likely.
We also have at least one person whose role was pure negative utility - nkirbit, who was "Macho," which just means he can't be protected by a Doctor.
I am curious to know voltaires 8 people he knows the shows of before all the claiming is done.
I am curious to know voltaires 8 people he knows the shows of before all the claiming is done.
And I will happily provide, whenever the IC wants it in his order.
Voltaire, please list those 8 people, but NOT what you expect their shows to be or how you know their shows.
Voltaire, please list those 8 people, but NOT what you expect their shows to be or how you know their shows.
myself
Voltgloss
TA
sudgy
Walrus
AHoppy
bocaJ
Jorbles
I am semi-Naive. I will never get guilty results on one of the shows, even if that person is guilty.Why don't you just investigate those people whose show you already know?
Hence my desire for a full show claim now, before it's obvious which show.
I am semi-Naive. I will never get guilty results on one of the shows, even if that person is guilty.Why don't you just investigate those people whose show you already know?
Hence my desire for a full show claim now, before it's obvious which show.
wondering this too.
I still have a bad feeling about this. Shouldn't we at least wait until everyone has seen this? Show claiming is beneficial for chairs, but it might be detrimental to someone else. And this day is far from over; we still have time.
EFHW, faust: do you think chairs is scum, or do you think he's town but showclaiming is nevertheless a bad idea?I believe it's reasonably likely that he is scum. As town, I think it wouldn't be the best move for him to claim. Now that he claimed, assuming he says the truth, we should probably show-claim. But I don't understand why he would claim as town.
Long and measured, that's something scum wants to do. They want to cover everything, but they want to be slow and contemplative about it so they don't screw it up. Flurry of posts is not their thing and getting their views out is less important than tripping up. For town: Tripping up is much less important than giving their views or voting. So for now, I'm going to vote: walrus
Walrus: Sheeps Voltgloss (#955) and EFHW (#989) on the mcmc case. Looks like scum jumping the easy wagon.
...
Liopoil/Jorbles and Walrus seem most scummy from this.
Last flip-reread. There wasn't as much to find as I'd hoped. The interactions:
Twistedarcher: In the beginning, shraeye and TA fight a little (#200, #563, #564), but later shraeye says he's getting „good vibes“ from TA (#830). Nothing after that. Doesn't look like scum bussing each other. Slight town read on TA for that.
Eevee: Has a town read on shraeye at the beginning, shraeye buddys Eevee for that. From that, Eevee look somewhat townie.
Sudgy: Votes for shraeye early, later shraeye votes for him. This situation looks much more like bussing than the TA thing. Slight scum read.
Walrus: starts out suspecting shraeye, ends with a town read on him. I could see scum or town do that. So null here.
Voltaire: He and shraeye fight a lot D1. It's perfectly likely that Voltaire killed shraeye. He could be vig or SK/second scum faction for that, I find vig less likely because given the size of this game, i expect two scum factions, and we don't have a third night kill. So scum read.
Liopoil/Jorbles: shraeye votes for him and then disappears, even though he knows that he's likely to be lynched and he could vote mcmc instead. This makes Jorbles look more townie.
EFHW: Gets defended by shraeye late D1. Leaning scum for that.
With this, I'm concluding my recurrent segment „flip analysis“, and hopefully can focus more on the things that are going on right now. I will also vote: Walrus as he came out looking the scummiest from this. Another thing I'm taking from this analysis is that Eevee is likely town.
I am semi-Naive. I will never get guilty results on one of the shows, even if that person is guilty.Why don't you just investigate those people whose show you already know?
Hence my desire for a full show claim now, before it's obvious which show.
wondering this too.
chairs, is the person you investigated on Voltaire's list of 8? Don't say who it is - just "yes" or "no."
Why do you think it is reasonably likely that chairs is scum? Just because he claimed? If so, why do you think his claim isn't "the best move" if he is town?Because he will be killed, obviously. And like I already said, he could have just investigated the players with known flavor. His claim could have waited until at least D3.
Because if I start revealing results, it would become obvious which show I was targeting.You could still have urged us to showclaim before you reveal your results.
Why do you think it is reasonably likely that chairs is scum? Just because he claimed? If so, why do you think his claim isn't "the best move" if he is town?Because he will be killed, obviously. And like I already said, he could have just investigated the players with known flavor. His claim could have waited until at least D3.
I believe that I did sufficient bread-crumbing D1 in my attempts to get a show-claim without hard-claiming my role so as to make it unlikely I would have survived to D3 without doctor support, regardless.I understand that reasoning, but I don't think I agree. We have Voltgloss as IC and Galzria as close-to-IC now. I would think scum has a pretty tough choice here. But alright, it makes some sense.
Because if I start revealing results, it would become obvious which show I was targeting.You could still have urged us to showclaim before you reveal your results.
Man, I am not paying enough attention to this game. Mcmc was a Captain? That means it's time for me to claim...
I am a captained doctor. I am now useless now that the captain is dead (I asked ash about this already).
I still tried to save someone last night without thinking...
holy immediate response batman
I believe that I did sufficient bread-crumbing D1 in my attempts to get a show-claim without hard-claiming my role so as to make it unlikely I would have survived to D3 without doctor support, regardless.I understand that reasoning, but I don't think I agree. We have Voltgloss as IC and Galzria as close-to-IC now. I would think scum has a pretty tough choice here. But alright, it makes some sense.
So...you have a null read on me and a scum read on 3 others, and that makes me the scummiest? I mean, if you find me scummy you find me scummy, but your vote doesn't seem all too consistent with the rest of your post. What makes the scummiest exactly in your mind?Walrus, note that my vote for you is a result of three posts analysis. Two of them made you look scummy, the latest one didn't.
I mean later. Like, investigate players with known flavor until there's an incriminating result, then urge for a show-claim, then present your results. That seems like the way to go in this situation.Because if I start revealing results, it would become obvious which show I was targeting.You could still have urged us to showclaim before you reveal your results.
??? Isn't that exactly what chairs has done?
I mean later. Like, investigate players with known flavor until there's an incriminating result, then urge for a show-claim, then present your results. That seems like the way to go in this situation.Because if I start revealing results, it would become obvious which show I was targeting.You could still have urged us to showclaim before you reveal your results.
??? Isn't that exactly what chairs has done?
Man, I am not paying enough attention to this game. Mcmc was a Captain? That means it's time for me to claim...
I am a captained doctor. I am now useless now that the captain is dead (I asked ash about this already).
I still tried to save someone last night without thinking...
So...you have a null read on me and a scum read on 3 others, and that makes me the scummiest? I mean, if you find me scummy you find me scummy, but your vote doesn't seem all too consistent with the rest of your post. What makes the scummiest exactly in your mind?Walrus, note that my vote for you is a result of three posts analysis. Two of them made you look scummy, the latest one didn't.
Man, I am not paying enough attention to this game. Mcmc was a Captain? That means it's time for me to claim...
I am a captained doctor. I am now useless now that the captain is dead (I asked ash about this already).
I still tried to save someone last night without thinking...
Was this, uh, a wise claim to make? I don't know much about this sort of stuff, but it seems like it doesn't give the town a lot of information, while telling scum "A ha! One less doc to worry about! Plus now I know what that captain was for!"
Two things:But sudgy breadcrumbed this D1, right? He wouldn't have been able to do this if he was scum, because he didn't know there was a captain.
1. Potentially it means there's no doc, yes
2. Captains can captain multiple roles
Actually the more I think about it the more scum might want to make this claim actually. Curious what sudgy says about why he claimed.
Two things:But sudgy breadcrumbed this D1, right? He wouldn't have been able to do this if he was scum, because he didn't know there was a captain.
1. Potentially it means there's no doc, yes
2. Captains can captain multiple roles
Actually the more I think about it the more scum might want to make this claim actually. Curious what sudgy says about why he claimed.
Ah, I see. But I think he was no longer able to do that after having breadcrumbed so heavily Day 1. I see he's since made that point himself.Yes, I guess that's right. I'm also in no way sure that chairs is scum. It's only that I'm also not sure he is town, and I like to be cautious.
I have learned the hard way that "hey Player X claimed a power role but he's not playing it how I think it should be played optimally, so he must be SCUM!" is often just wrong. People differ on how power roles should be played. That's the nature of the game.
I believe chairs, and wanted to showclaim D1.
Why not? Like xeiron, I don't get into scumhunting D1. So I'd rather talk setup than go after semi-random people. I felt like showclaiming was a good way to kickstart this. Plus, I still have the theory of a Modern Family scum team and a Community scum team. But that theory was mostly dismissed because of shraeye flipping generic 'Mafia'.I believe chairs, and wanted to showclaim D1.
I remember that. Why?
Yes, I'm almost 99% sure there are 2 scumteams. One for MF and one for Community.
Actually, don't answer that. Answer this instead:99% was a number pulled from thin air. Ash said this game should be quicker than most large games. I interpreted that to mean multiple kills. With a game this large, I assumed this meant to scum teams. And with two shows being smashed into one game, I figured the two teams would each have its own home show.Yes, I'm almost 99% sure there are 2 scumteams. One for MF and one for Community.
Why 99% sure of this?
Well, I was thinking I would be useless now. Might as well have another IC.
Hrmg.
I was ready to move forward with showclaims, but Arch just jumped on it so eagerly that I'm worried about Arch being scum who benefits from showclaims. Especially now that I see, on reread, that Arch out of the clear blue sky asked for full flavorclaims early on Day 1.
Between all this, and sudgy's drive-by claiming, my head is kinda swimming.
Also I think I've been doing too much responding right now (as an IC) and not enough letting other players respond.
So I'm going to bow out for a little while to (i) collect my thoughts and (ii) let everyone else have some space to expound.
Arch, does showclaiming benefit your role?I am going to answer this:
Hrmg.
I was ready to move forward with showclaims, but Arch just jumped on it so eagerly that I'm worried about Arch being scum who benefits from showclaims. Especially now that I see, on reread, that Arch out of the clear blue sky asked for full flavorclaims early on Day 1.
Between all this, and sudgy's drive-by claiming, my head is kinda swimming.
Also I think I've been doing too much responding right now (as an IC) and not enough letting other players respond.
So I'm going to bow out for a little while to (i) collect my thoughts and (ii) let everyone else have some space to expound.
Hrm, that is a good point. I'm frustrated, though, as this means that if we don't show-claim then I can only validate the alignments of people who have already claimed (or risk getting inaccurate results). I mean, on the plus side if I do get a guilty verdict I'll know it's accurate, but if somebody who hasn't claimed gets not guilty there's a possibility it's actually guilty.
Here's the problem: If chairs learns that the person he investigated is a member of the team he can't accurately investigate (in theory, 50/50 chance, worse if people from that faction have died, worse if he is part of that faction himself (assuming even distribution)) then we're left with nothing. I'm assumming that in asking this, chairs has gotten a "Not guilty" result, because if he had a guilty result, we could just lynch scum and be that closer to winning. So best case scenario show-claiming: We get another confirmed town to be a NK target, worst case scenario: we learn nothing and scum gets even more info. Sorry chairs, but I don't think this seems worth it now that I think about it. Especially now you are a big target tonight.Hrmg.
I was ready to move forward with showclaims, but Arch just jumped on it so eagerly that I'm worried about Arch being scum who benefits from showclaims. Especially now that I see, on reread, that Arch out of the clear blue sky asked for full flavorclaims early on Day 1.
Between all this, and sudgy's drive-by claiming, my head is kinda swimming.
Also I think I've been doing too much responding right now (as an IC) and not enough letting other players respond.
So I'm going to bow out for a little while to (i) collect my thoughts and (ii) let everyone else have some space to expound.
Hrm, that is a good point. I'm frustrated, though, as this means that if we don't show-claim then I can only validate the alignments of people who have already claimed (or risk getting inaccurate results). I mean, on the plus side if I do get a guilty verdict I'll know it's accurate, but if somebody who hasn't claimed gets not guilty there's a possibility it's actually guilty.
So we can't even use your result from last night, then? That's horrible, and you have a decent chance of dying tonight. Sudgy may not be the only doctor (if he was one - at the moment I am only treating as 100% fact that he is a captained role) since there were two cops though. I think if we follow through with the claim and trust chairs (which I do), it may be worth the tradeoff because it clears a town member or catches a scum. (POE is the sharpest knife yada yada) If that gives scum an advantage tonight, it might be worth it. I would also be totally ok with lynching Archetype today as well at this point. I mean, there are ways out of this situation. I think, given the point where we are, we should finish show claiming so that chairs has a result. If someone lies about what show they're in, I think this would be provable at some point.
I just typed that out and then realized that chairs could have evaluated someone he's naive about without knowing. Crap.
So best case scenario show-claiming: We get another confirmed town to be a NK target, worst case scenario: we learn nothing and scum gets even more info. Sorry chairs, but I don't think this seems worth it now that I think about it. Especially now you are a big target tonight.
Well, I was thinking I would be useless now. Might as well have another IC.Said every other VT claim, grrr!
I understand that confirmed town is great, I'm just not sure if it's worth giving them info that could kill us. Fear of the unknown, you know? This game is still in its early stages (since it's so big), should we claim a lot this early? I don't know, I don't have the experience to judge that. He may be able to confirm town, but would you also want that person to claim any roles they have?So best case scenario show-claiming: We get another confirmed town to be a NK target, worst case scenario: we learn nothing and scum gets even more info. Sorry chairs, but I don't think this seems worth it now that I think about it. Especially now you are a big target tonight.
Getting someone to be confirmed town isn't as useless as you make it sound. The more players get confirmed town, the more effectively we can POE scum. Scum already have plenty of NK targets, and they can't kill them all simultaneously.
He may be able to confirm town, but would you also want that person to claim any roles they have?
Even if they had an investigative result or something? Then, assuming we can trust chairs, we would have another investigative role we can trust. I feel like that would be pretty great. But then again, I'm probably doing way too much speculation. Time for bed.He may be able to confirm town, but would you also want that person to claim any roles they have?
They absolutely should not.
Even if they had an investigative result or something? Then, assuming we can trust chairs, we would have another investigative role we can trust. I feel like that would be pretty great. But then again, I'm probably doing way too much speculation. Time for bed.He may be able to confirm town, but would you also want that person to claim any roles they have?
They absolutely should not.
Well, I was thinking I would be useless now. Might as well have another IC.Said every other VT claim, grrr!
At the time of joining, all players may specify with which of the two shows they are familiar: Community, Modern Family, both or neither. The mods will attempt to align players with flavor characters (but not role or alignment) from the shows with which they are most familiar. This will still be done using a random number generator. This isn't guaranteed, but we will make our best attempt at it. If a player doesn't care about receiving a flavor character that corresponds to a particular show they can also let us know.
So, I'm making a big post, but it's taking a while. I'm taking a break from writing it for now.
Yes, my point exactly. We haven't confirmed your alignment.Well, I was thinking I would be useless now. Might as well have another IC.Said every other VT claim, grrr!
ICs are way better than claimed VTs. If I had the choice to make an IC, I would go for it. VTs are worse because you haven't confirmed their alignment.
Voltgloss - should I wait for fullclaim before I make my announcement regarding who I targeted?
Also, I continue to basically play via phone/at work, so at some point a list of members of both shows (that have already claimed, if we don't proceed with full claim) will greatly benefit me.
I haven't fully parsed Voltaire's latest post, but I should add that we only have sudgy's word for it that mcmc's death made him lose his power (or what that power actually is). The Captain entry on mafiascum doesn't say what happens to a Captained role when the Captain dies. I think this is the first time we've seen this role on f:dS, so there isn't any precedent for how Captains "usually" work.
I went back and re-read everything that came after Galz's claim (well, within reason). Galz told sudgy to hold up on claiming, which sudgy was planning on doing. It makes complete sense that sudgy was planning to reveal that he was Captained. Galz, knowing he enables people, is perhaps anticipating that sudgy is going to reveal he is enabled and thinks it's more important to get his information out there first. Galz, is that what you were thinking?
Well, I was thinking I would be useless now. Might as well have another IC.Said every other VT claim, grrr!
ICs are way better than claimed VTs. If I had the choice to make an IC, I would go for it. VTs are worse because you haven't confirmed their alignment.
I went back and re-read everything that came after Galz's claim (well, within reason). Galz told sudgy to hold up on claiming, which sudgy was planning on doing. It makes complete sense that sudgy was planning to reveal that he was Captained. Galz, knowing he enables people, is perhaps anticipating that sudgy is going to reveal he is enabled and thinks it's more important to get his information out there first. Galz, is that what you were thinking?
Voltaire, which posts are you referencing? Will save me some time in reading back.
There's no reason that Mcmc couldn't have captained a scum role. It makes sense both ways, actually. Scum have a role that they can only 'unlock' once they kill the captain.
The only way I can see this not being the case is if sudgy has a suppressed role, that he can't use unless a certain townie is dead. But how he thinks claiming to be Captained could make the theoretical suppression townie reveal themselves is beyond me.
Also Voltaire, for those of us who don't know the shows (like me), can you explain the mcmc-sudgy flavor connection? I know sudgy's flavor is easily deducible from his "I'm looking for my pen" secondary wincon comments, so I don't think we're outing any more information by your explaining the flavor link you see.
Also, note that if sudgy is telling the truth, then the mcmc-sudgy link increases swing in the way OPPOSITE to the Galz-shraeye link (assuming Galz is town). By which I mean:I don't quite understand. Isn't killing mcmc in this case the same as killing a town PR? Lose a town player, lose a power. Of course that's not true if mcmc captained two or more town PRs. That would indeed be swingy.
- If Galz is town, scum killing Galz is double-edged. They kill a town player, but lose at least one of their power roles.
- If mcmc and sudgy are town, scum killing mcmc is a double benefit (for scum). They kill a town player, AND the town loses ANOTHER power role.
TA, what about galz's second point - that efhw wanted yo lynch galz because of his claim?
Initially it does look like a fair point (I need to I reread what he's talking about when I'm not on my phone). However, as someone said, I wouldexpect scum to fall on multiple sides of any issue, including this one. So someone saying that galz should be killed would not make them close to confirmed townie.
This is wrong. The event of my lynch is not some arbitrary decision. There's no WIFOM to play because she couldn't know that Shraeye was going to die. The WIFOM that you're suggesting only makes sense post-death of Shraeye, when we can look back and say "scum wouldn't have pushed to hurt their own team". If Shraeye is still alive today, this conversation wouldn't be happening, and thus her stance to see me dead D1 makes no sense.
There's no reason that Mcmc couldn't have captained a scum role. It makes sense both ways, actually. Scum have a role that they can only 'unlock' once they kill the captain.
TA, I totally get still being suspicious of sudgy. His claim would be an amazing one for scum. But working through your thinking, how would you explain the below?The only way I can see this not being the case is if sudgy has a suppressed role, that he can't use unless a certain townie is dead. But how he thinks claiming to be Captained could make the theoretical suppression townie reveal themselves is beyond me.
There's no reason that Mcmc couldn't have captained a scum role. It makes sense both ways, actually. Scum have a role that they can only 'unlock' once they kill the captain.
TA, I totally get still being suspicious of sudgy. His claim would be an amazing one for scum. But working through your thinking, how would you explain the below?The only way I can see this not being the case is if sudgy has a suppressed role, that he can't use unless a certain townie is dead. But how he thinks claiming to be Captained could make the theoretical suppression townie reveal themselves is beyond me.
I don't get what you're saying -- no one needs to claim. Mcmc, the captain, is already dead.
There's no reason that Mcmc couldn't have captained a scum role. It makes sense both ways, actually. Scum have a role that they can only 'unlock' once they kill the captain.
TA, I totally get still being suspicious of sudgy. His claim would be an amazing one for scum. But working through your thinking, how would you explain the below?The only way I can see this not being the case is if sudgy has a suppressed role, that he can't use unless a certain townie is dead. But how he thinks claiming to be Captained could make the theoretical suppression townie reveal themselves is beyond me.
I don't get what you're saying -- no one needs to claim. Mcmc, the captain, is already dead.
But he wasn't, and there was no reason to think he would be, on D1 when this all happened.
So, when I saw my role I was thinking that if the Captain died I could easily be confirmed town as I'm the only person who the Captain would Captain. I didn't think it all the way through though...
And, when I realized mcmc was the Captain, just blurted forth my unfinished thoughts. Oh well, what's done is done.
There's no reason that Mcmc couldn't have captained a scum role. It makes sense both ways, actually. Scum have a role that they can only 'unlock' once they kill the captain.
TA, I totally get still being suspicious of sudgy. His claim would be an amazing one for scum. But working through your thinking, how would you explain the below?The only way I can see this not being the case is if sudgy has a suppressed role, that he can't use unless a certain townie is dead. But how he thinks claiming to be Captained could make the theoretical suppression townie reveal themselves is beyond me.
I don't get what you're saying -- no one needs to claim. Mcmc, the captain, is already dead.
But he wasn't, and there was no reason to think he would be, on D1 when this all happened.
I think I spot the confusion. I'm talking about sudgy claiming to be Captained on D1, which I think is where he was clearly headed before Galz's claim.
So, when I saw my role I was thinking that if the Captain died I could easily be confirmed town as I'm the only person who the Captain would Captain. I didn't think it all the way through though...
And, when I realized mcmc was the Captain, just blurted forth my unfinished thoughts. Oh well, what's done is done.
I'm also not really following this part of it. Mcmc was the D1 lynch. Sudgy had all of N1 to think about this. He tried to explain away his claim by saying "Oh, I just wasn't thinking it through, I just blurted it out when I realized", but the fact is, Mcmc had flipped over 48 hours previously.
I want to note something about sudgy claim: It could be perfectly correct, and he could still be scum. That would be sort of a negative utility role for scum, and of course they'd want to out the captain sooner rather than later.
Is this all likely? I don't know. sudgy didn't strike me as the player to go for such long-term plans (no offense).
To out the Captain? IIRC, he tried to get both of them to half-claim.I want to note something about sudgy claim: It could be perfectly correct, and he could still be scum. That would be sort of a negative utility role for scum, and of course they'd want to out the captain sooner rather than later.
Is this all likely? I don't know. sudgy didn't strike me as the player to go for such long-term plans (no offense).
Yes, but why would he claim to be Captained on D1?
I want to note something about sudgy claim: It could be perfectly correct, and he could still be scum. That would be sort of a negative utility role for scum, and of course they'd want to out the captain sooner rather than later.
Is this all likely? I don't know. sudgy didn't strike me as the player to go for such long-term plans (no offense).
Yes, but why would he claim to be Captained on D1?
To out the Captain? IIRC, he tried to get both of them to half-claim.
I just saw Eevee's claim (haven't read past that yet), but man, are we setting a record for "most unforced roleclaims Day 2?"
I think it's time for me to claim.
I'm a survivor, I win when any faction wins and I'm still alive.
I have been honest in my opinions and scumhunting like I was town. The only anti-town thing I've done is toning my activity down a bit to not seem like a good kill proposition. I think town is in a great shape, and I fully intend to do my best to help you guys win. I have no reason to hold anything back anymore - scum knows shooting me isn't going to be the best way to hurt town.
If you decide to keep me (which I think is what you should do), I promise to do rereads and put in effort like I was a real townie. You can quote this to prod me if I don't deliver.
However it is worth noting that sudgy stopped his claiming plans after Galz's claim.
However it is worth noting that sudgy stopped his claiming plans after Galz's claim.
Are you sure about this? I vaguely recall some late-in-the-day sudgy comment about claiming and a reaction from Galz along the lines of "I see where this is going." I haven't reread yet to confirm/get exact posts.
Alright, I can't post much right now since I'm just about to start work, but especially considering my showclaim is theoretically already public knowledge, I felt that I should correct this theory:
I am Britta. Britta Perry from Community. Remember that whole Red Door business? That was me. That was a Britta thing. Unless there's some weird cloning subplot going on, I would doubt sudgy could be Britta as well.
I've never watched either show though so I couldn't really speculate on how that fits into the big picture.
Mcmc was Jeff. He bosses the group around. Captain, bam, easy. Annie (sudgy) is, at some points, timid/has a thing with Jeff. So Jeff captaining Annie is a picture-perfect flavor match.
However it is worth noting that sudgy stopped his claiming plans after Galz's claim. See also my other bullet points for why he is towny. (Also, Voltgloss, I haven't seen a TON of Community but Annie as a doctor also makes sense, she's sweet etc. etc.)
TA, what about galz's second point - that efhw wanted yo lynch galz because of his claim?
Initially it does look like a fair point (I need to I reread what he's talking about when I'm not on my phone). However, as someone said, I wouldexpect scum to fall on multiple sides of any issue, including this one. So someone saying that galz should be killed would not make them close to confirmed townie.
This is wrong. The event of my lynch is not some arbitrary decision. There's no WIFOM to play because she couldn't know that Shraeye was going to die. The WIFOM that you're suggesting only makes sense post-death of Shraeye, when we can look back and say "scum wouldn't have pushed to hurt their own team". If Shraeye is still alive today, this conversation wouldn't be happening, and thus her stance to see me dead D1 makes no sense.
So you are saying that you fully expected the entire scum team to support not lynching you, and that it's not a possibility that one person on the team came in on the other side of the argument?
This is a LONG game. Most players are probably going to die because of it. Scum members taking a position with the view of "Eh, maybe Shraeye won't die, so we don't need to worry about something coming back to bite us" would be a short-sighted play by scum.
I'm pretty sure scum will come in on both sides of ANY issue, regardless of whether they agree with the point, disagree with the point, or don't care about the point. They want to confuse and separate themselves. I don't get how you can clear EFHW from being scum completely just because of one point she made on D1, especially when chances are, you weren't going to get lynched anyways.
The fact is, people were willing to switch to Mcmc at the end of the day, and the same people WEREN'T willing to switch to EFHW at the end of the day. This was also not a thought-out, planned thing -- this occurred at the end of the day when people were making snap decisions. The snap decisions of several players was to not move to EFHW, no matter what, but to be ok moving to Mcmc (specifically looking at Dsell here). This is a huge point against EFHW, and I'm not going to clear her from being scum just because of one opinion she had on D1 that turned out to be largely irrelevant anyways, since you never were close to being lynched.
I find this argument compelling, however I don't know what the point you refer to that I highlighted was. Can you clarify for me? (I didn't follow d1 closely enough to remember everything.)
I think anyone who knows Community can back me up here. Everything I said about Britta makes no sense but works if I meant Annie.
I find this argument compelling, however I don't know what the point you refer to that I highlighted was. Can you clarify for me? (I didn't follow d1 closely enough to remember everything.)
Galz says that EFHW is town because she supported lynching him. That's the point I'm referring to.
I just saw Eevee's claim (haven't read past that yet), but man, are we setting a record for "most unforced roleclaims Day 2?"Well, claiming is bad because it gives scum more info on who to nightkill. That doesn't apply here because I want them to have more information - I want them to know not to kill me.
OK then. Assuming we believe you:From the get-go we got lucky rolling Voltgloss as an IC. Having a scum death as early as day2 is pretty good, although admittedly I forgot about xeiron completely. Well, I think we are in ok shape at least. It's more fun to play to town's wincon that it is to play to some scum's that I don't even know wincon.
1. Why do you think town is in a good position?
2. Who are your top scum candidates?
Thanks.
Also I can back Voltaire up, it does make more sense for Annie than for Britta. Voltaire do you know that sudgy is Annie or are you guessing?
Thanks.
Also I can back Voltaire up, it does make more sense for Annie than for Britta. Voltaire do you know that sudgy is Annie or are you guessing?
I find this argument compelling, however I don't know what the point you refer to that I highlighted was. Can you clarify for me? (I didn't follow d1 closely enough to remember everything.)
Galz says that EFHW is town because she supported lynching him. That's the point I'm referring to.
I think anyone who knows Community can back me up here. Everything I said about Britta makes no sense but works if I meant Annie.It makes more sense with Annie, yes.
I find this argument compelling, however I don't know what the point you refer to that I highlighted was. Can you clarify for me? (I didn't follow d1 closely enough to remember everything.)
Galz says that EFHW is town because she supported lynching him. That's the point I'm referring to.
To clarify: Galz's argument is that, because he enabled shraeye's power (and shraeye flipped scum), shraeye and his scumpartners would NOT try to get Galz lynched after Galz claimed. Because Galz's death makes them lose (at least one) power role.
It is clear that shraeye pushed for Galz to NOT be lynched, which is consistent with his role. The question is: if EFHW is shraeye's scumpartner, would she have done the same? Or would she have argued the reverse, despite knowing that Galz being lynched was less-than-ideal for her scumteam?
I would like to hear Galz's views on sudgy.
As we wait for the chairs/showclaim situation to sort itself out, I want to move forward with our best plan of action: finding shraeye's partner(s).
I didn't hear any responses to my earlier lynch pool for today, so I assume it's either non-controversial (except for the fact I exclude myself, obviously) or people don't intend on going about things that way. Hoping that it's positive, I'm going to try to look at people closer now. The pool when we last left it (see my previous post for why those not seen here are excluded) was:
Eevee, Robz888, mail-mi, chairs, Twistedarcher, Sudgy, EFHW, WalrusMcFishSr, Dsell, Jorbles
I went back and re-read everything that came after Galz's claim (well, within reason). Galz told sudgy to hold up on claiming, which sudgy was planning on doing. It makes complete sense that sudgy was planning to reveal that he was Captained. Galz, knowing he enables people, is perhaps anticipating that sudgy is going to reveal he is enabled and thinks it's more important to get his information out there first. Galz, is that what you were thinking?
Re-reading sudgy before this claim, I think sudgy is 95% town. Why? Because why would captained!scum want to out the Captain, which is clearly what sudgy was going for? When the Captain dies, they lose their power. The only way I can see this not being the case is if sudgy has a suppressed role, that he can't use unless a certain townie is dead. But how he thinks claiming to be Captained could make the theoretical suppression townie reveal themselves is beyond me. Hence, I think that sudgy is a believable claimed VT right now. He gets removed from the pool. (also, and this is a biggie - based on flavor, sudgy makes 100% sense as a Captained role. Since the mods told us flavor is important, this adds extra believability to the entire situtation).
- Walrus says he doesn't want to lynch Galz unless everyone agrees it's a good idea.
- (separate from this, nkirbit points out that shraeye called out nkirbit and not Robz for announcing lurking intent. scumpoints for Robz here)
- Dsell does not want to lynch Galz
- chairs actually is the first to vote for Galz post-claim
- Eevee does not want to lynch Galz
- (fyi, we have two dead confirmed town members voting for Galz as well - nkirbit and mcmc)
- lioJorbles is the second pool candidate to vote for Galz (for his different reasons)
- mail-mi votes for Galz (the 75% vote)
- (separate from this, Walrus uses the Galz situation to climb off the shraeye wagon without any attention. scumpoints for Walrus here)
- TA claims Galz is more likely scum but I don't think ever votes for him
- As far as I can tell, Robz never comments on whether we should lynch Galz or not.
- EFHW votes for Galz much later, thinking he enables scum (Dsell says this is crazy because Galz is a strong player)
- (btw, faust would be staying in the pool based on Galz interactions if he were in it. This is worth remembering for tomorrow)
Based on these Galz interactions (and removing sudgy because of his claim), this happens to our pool:
Eevee, Robz888,mail-mi,chairs, Twistedarcher,Sudgy,EFHW, WalrusMcFishSr, Dsell,Jorbles
I find it mega-super-plausible that both Robz and Eevee could be scum, and Robz's bringing up Eevee D1 is Robz bussing. If Robz is scum, I think it's 100% certain he bussed a teammate D1.
It's also really, really worth noting this exchange between myself and shraeye (not because I want towncred (though I think it gives me plenty), but because I think I got things right here). Specifically: shraeye, confirmed scum, doesn't want anyone to become obvtown, and a great way to change that is to just throw dirt on everyone.
There could be other lines of thinking that I'm missing. Please remind me of them. My lynch pool is currently:
Eevee, Robz888, Twistedarcher, WalrusMcFishSr, Dsell
barring new developments/analysis.
Galz, did you claim D1 because you thought sudgy was about to claim "I'm Enabled?"
Modern Family
After they have both claimed, I would like everyone NOT on Voltaire's list of 8 to showclaim (if you haven't already claimed). Again, order doesn't matter within that group.
Then everyone on Voltaire's list of 8 should showclaim. Order doesn't matter within that group.
chairs should showclaim last. I forgot to make that explicit earlier.
I think this is right?
nkirbit is an interesting scumkill choice. I can see the logic behind it, but it's still not who I expected to turn up dead. Which makes me a bit more suspicious of those who I did expect to turn up dead. I'll say who... later.
nkirbit is an interesting scumkill choice. I can see the logic behind it, but it's still not who I expected to turn up dead. Which makes me a bit more suspicious of those who I did expect to turn up dead. I'll say who... later.
Is it time yet?
Actually maybe it's better if it's not Voltgloss who answers so it can be analyzed by others. I repose my question to anyone who feels like answering who is not Voltgloss.
I do see the case on TA, but I do not want to lynch him today I do not think.
I'm sorry, what case? All I see is me being PoE'd by Galz. Did I miss a case being made on me?
I could get on board with a Dsell lynch as well. There were several downright scummy posts from him yesterday that I saw -- the two that stick out are his view on Nkirbit (who we now know is town), and him being completely ok lynching both Jorbles and Mcmc, but not budging towards EFHW.
I could get on board with a Dsell lynch as well. There were several downright scummy posts from him yesterday that I saw -- the two that stick out are his view on Nkirbit (who we now know is town), and him being completely ok lynching both Jorbles and Mcmc, but not budging towards EFHW.
Wouldn't it make more sense to lynch EFHW then?
I will not lynch EFHW.
I will not lynch Dsell.
I will not lynch EFHW.
I will not lynch Dsell.
Galz, I just don't understand your playstyle. Can you please give reasons for these two statements.
Right now, I think it is most likely that we are on the same side. Shraeye's flip really has me thinking you're town. But I don't follow your reasoning (your first post about EFHW just had weird jumps in it), you're clearly actilurking, you're giving posts without reads, you waited forever to vote yesterday, you didn't follow your own D1 advice, etc. etc.
Suffice to say I am flummoxed.
Vote Count 1.33:
liopoil (7): Robz888, shraeye, AHoppy, Dsell, faust, sudgy, Galzria
nkirbit (1): bocaJ
sudgy (1): Eevee
mcmc (5): EFHW, Walrus, mail-mi, Archetype, chairs
chairs (1): nkirbit
EFHW (5): Voltgloss, Voltiare, mcmcsaolot, liopoil, Twistedarcher
Not Voting (0):
With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch.
Day 1 ends on September 23 at 9:22 p.m.OneHalf hour to deadline.
They're both townreads.
A) "I'm clearly acti-lurking"
- Baseless and untrue.
B) "Your giving posts without reads"
- Blatantly false, my reads are very well established. Further, at least I've made reads with reasons, unlike most of your "reads" which just exist for the sake of existing and have no explanation.
C) "You waited forever to vote yesterday"
- I voted within one of my first couple of posts, arguably one of the earliest non-RVS votes of the game. The fact that it was on you has clearly escaped your memory.
D) "You didn't follow your own D1 advice"
- Nope, you're right about that. I developed reads instead. But you were more than happy to sheep right along with our IC and that "method". Look what it got us. Voltgloss has done some things well, and he's done some things terribly. I'll be happy to discuss where his mistakes were after the game.
You are so frustratingly wrong about EFHW, Galz. I don't know why you are giving her so much town credit but it's completely undeserved.
4. It's stuff like this that makes you come across as so scummy to me. What do you mean, "look what it got us?"
Voltgloss has done some things well, and he's done some things terribly. I'll be happy to discuss where his mistakes were after the game.
Voltaire, you obviously have no experience with me, but I spend about 90% of my vast amount of time on the forums viewing from my phone. I've almost 50% again the most active f.ds user. I keep up with all my games from my mobile, but I only post when I need to. Even with that, must of my posts are made from my mobile. That's been the case since M-II, and it's not likely to change.
If I'm reading, it's to not fall behind. Much of the time I'm doing other things in other Apps and the browser is open in the background. Hardly even close to "actlurking".
Voltgloss has done some things well, and he's done some things terribly. I'll be happy to discuss where his mistakes were after the game.
Love you too, Galz. :p
4. It's stuff like this that makes you come across as so scummy to me. What do you mean, "look what it got us?"
More importantly, why didn't you point these things out/prevent them from happening etc.?
Voltgloss has done some things well, and he's done some things terribly. I'll be happy to discuss where his mistakes were after the game.
Love you too, Galz. :p
Voltgloss has done some things well, and he's done some things terribly. I'll be happy to discuss where his mistakes were after the game.
Love you too, Galz. :p
Man, I typed this response flippantly but the more I think about it the more this comment makes me legit angry. Like, unrelated-to-alignments and unrelated-to-the-game angry. Just angry. Like yuma-spiritbears angry.
I'll be back Monday. No, this doesn't mean Galz is scum. It does mean he's making me not want to play.
Vote: Voltaire
This was the peak of the EFHW wagon. She was tied with our eventual lynch, mcmc. I've colored our flips.Vote Count 1.33:
liopoil (7): Robz888, shraeye, AHoppy, Dsell, faust, sudgy, Galzria
nkirbit (1): bocaJ
sudgy (1): Eevee
mcmc (5): EFHW, Walrus, mail-mi, Archetype, chairs
chairs (1): nkirbit
EFHW (5): Voltgloss, Voltiare, mcmcsaolot, liopoil, Twistedarcher
Not Voting (0):
With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch.
Day 1 ends on September 23 at 9:22 p.m.OneHalf hour to deadline.
And again, I've got a town read on EFHW.
I do not believe mcmc's lynch was scum free.
I do not believe that all 5 on EFHW's wagon are town that switched from one town to another (well, 4, discounting mcmc himself).
Voltgloss is town.
That leaves you, TA and liopoil.
Voltgloss has done some things well, and he's done some things terribly. I'll be happy to discuss where his mistakes were after the game.
Love you too, Galz. :p
Man, I typed this response flippantly but the more I think about it the more this comment makes me legit angry. Like, unrelated-to-alignments and unrelated-to-the-game angry. Just angry. Like yuma-spiritbears angry.
I'll be back Monday. No, this doesn't mean Galz is scum. It does mean he's making me not want to play.
Galz, can you please direct me to your Dsell read.
Volt, I didn't mean it as a personal attack on you. I just think that I've tried very hard to give you advice on MANY occasions, and I've felt rather ignored. D1 I felt like you were incredibly blind to people that sheeped you and it was incredibly frustrating because it felt like you were dismissing good evidence based on the fact that these same people gave you warm fuzzy feelings.
The fact that you tried to blame me for the results at the end of the day didn't help.
Voltgloss has done some things well, and he's done some things terribly. I'll be happy to discuss where his mistakes were after the game.
Love you too, Galz. :p
Man, I typed this response flippantly but the more I think about it the more this comment makes me legit angry. Like, unrelated-to-alignments and unrelated-to-the-game angry. Just angry. Like yuma-spiritbears angry.
I'll be back Monday. No, this doesn't mean Galz is scum. It does mean he's making me not want to play.
Join the club.
Vote: Voltaire
Galz, can you please direct me to your Dsell read.
Can you direct me to your case on AHoppy from before post #350 in this game? Or any of the players you "got town vibes from"?
He's made a lot of sense to me this game. I've agreed with many, if not most, of his points. Further, the people that have consistently found him scummy are people that I myself have scum reads on. The combination of those two leave me unwilling to vote for him at this time.
Volt, I didn't mean it as a personal attack on you. I just think that I've tried very hard to give you advice on MANY occasions, and I've felt rather ignored. D1 I felt like you were incredibly blind to people that sheeped you and it was incredibly frustrating because it felt like you were dismissing good evidence based on the fact that these same people gave you warm fuzzy feelings.
The fact that you tried to blame me for the results at the end of the day didn't help.
Galz:
I DO NOT KNOW YOUR ALIGNMENT
You don't know the alignment of any of the people who have been sheeping you either.
Hey guys, everybody take a deep breath and chill. No escalation!
You don't know the alignment of any of the people who have been sheeping you either.
Shraeye also made this case against me. So if you are town, this case is a null tell at best.
I was typing angry, and curse words were involved, and it felt cathartic, and then I deleted it all.
Galz: can you please accept that I am aware of people sheeping me, and if I agree with something a sheeper is saying, it is NOT because they are sheeping me, but because I genuinely think it's correct or likely correct? I could be wrong, yes, but please don't accuse me of playing "terribly" and lynching independent thought.
And if you think I "blamed" you specifically for the end of Day 1 lynch: I do not, and I apologize if you got that idea. I was angry that you seemed to say "nah I won't help" by refusing all viable lynch candidates and voting ahoppy with ~15 minutes to go. If you'd done that with 30 minutes to go, it'd be a different story. But there was just. No. Time.
But that doesn't mean I "blame" you for the lynch.
Unless you're scum, in which case I fucking blame you for everything that's gone wrong this whole fucking game, because fuck, you're scum and deserve it. :D
This was the peak of the EFHW wagon. She was tied with our eventual lynch, mcmc. I've colored our flips.Vote Count 1.33:
liopoil (7): Robz888, shraeye, AHoppy, Dsell, faust, sudgy, Galzria
nkirbit (1): bocaJ
sudgy (1): Eevee
mcmc (5): EFHW, Walrus, mail-mi, Archetype, chairs
chairs (1): nkirbit
EFHW (5): Voltgloss, Voltiare, mcmcsaolot, liopoil, Twistedarcher
Not Voting (0):
With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch.
Day 1 ends on September 23 at 9:22 p.m.OneHalf hour to deadline.
And again, I've got a town read on EFHW.
I do not believe mcmc's lynch was scum free.
I do not believe that all 5 on EFHW's wagon are town that switched from one town to another (well, 4, discounting mcmc himself).
Voltgloss is town.
That leaves you, TA and liopoil.
Also: Remember I also proposed Archetype as a possible lynch. Similar to your proposing ahoppy, almost nobody responded to that (the only one I remember is Robz). Do you draw the same conclusions vis-a-vis Archetype as you do vis-a-vis ahoppy? If not, what is different?
Hey Voltaire: If we leave you alive one more night, will you shoot Eevee for us?
Also: Remember I also proposed Archetype as a possible lynch. Similar to your proposing ahoppy, almost nobody responded to that (the only one I remember is Robz). Do you draw the same conclusions vis-a-vis Archetype as you do vis-a-vis ahoppy? If not, what is different?
I just started work. I'll have a break between class in an hour and a half.
Hey Voltaire: If we leave you alive one more night, will you shoot Eevee for us?
Rolefishing!
Hey Voltaire: If we leave you alive one more night, will you shoot Eevee for us?
Rolefishing!
Clearly Robz is saying you're scum.
Vote Count 2.4:
Walrus (3): Archetype, AHoppy, faust
Eevee (2): EFHW, Jorbles
TA (1): Galz
Dsell (2): Voltaire, Robz
Voltaire (1): Voltgloss
Not Voting (7): Eevee, chairs, Twistedarcher, sudgy, WalrusMcFishSr, Dsell, bocaJ, mail-mi
With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.
Please note, Jorbles replaced liopoil.
Day 2 ends on October 6th at 9:30 p.m.
Will Dede be at Haley's Party?
Invite Dede (6): Twistedarcher, Archetype, bocaJ, sudgy, chairs, Jorbles
Not Invite Dede (2): Walrus, AHoppy
Not Voting (9): Eevee, Robz888, Voltgloss, mail-mi, Galzria, Voltaire, EFHW, Dsell, Faust
Hey Voltaire: If we leave you alive one more night, will you shoot Eevee for us?
Rolefishing!
Clearly Robz is saying you're scum.
I agree. But I don't want to answer his question as town, because what if I'm a vig who shot shraeye?
Voltgloss, is your vote on me serious? Or was it an in-the-moment thing?
Voltgloss, is your vote on me serious? Or was it an in-the-moment thing?
I don't know yet. I owe it to Galz to give you a really good, long, hard, read.
OH MAN INNUENDO
Voltgloss, is your vote on me serious? Or was it an in-the-moment thing?
I don't know yet. I owe it to Galz to give you a really good, long, hard, read.
OH MAN INNUENDO
Hey Voltaire: If we leave you alive one more night, will you shoot Eevee for us?
Rolefishing!
Clearly Robz is saying you're scum.
I agree. But I don't want to answer his question as town, because what if I'm a vig who shot shraeye?
Voltgloss, is your vote on me serious? Or was it an in-the-moment thing?
I don't know yet. I owe it to Galz to give you a really good, long, hard, read.
OH MAN INNUENDO
Let's just lynch him. It's quicker.
Voltgloss, is your vote on me serious? Or was it an in-the-moment thing?
I don't know yet. I owe it to Galz to give you a really good, long, hard, read.
OH MAN INNUENDO
Let's just lynch him. It's quicker.
Hey Voltaire: If we leave you alive one more night, will you shoot Eevee for us?
Rolefishing!
Clearly Robz is saying you're scum.
I agree. But I don't want to answer his question as town, because what if I'm a vig who shot shraeye?
I KNEW you were eventually going to say that that's what you did here, nice testing the waters with that explanation. Don't believe you.
Voltgloss, is your vote on me serious? Or was it an in-the-moment thing?
I don't know yet. I owe it to Galz to give you a really good, long, hard, read.
OH MAN INNUENDO
Let's just lynch him. It's quicker.
Robz, what about my defense is not convincing? Do you have any case on me other than (allegedly) blindly sheeping Voltgloss?
(Of course blocking or what have you can screw up some of the calculus here, but the most simple explanation is that Voltgloss is an SK who shot shraeye.)
Galz, what does it mean again when someone is hunting the SK?
I do, and I've stated. I'm not even sure the sheeping is the main thing anymore.
You have--at least twice--made comments that somene who is part of a minority scum faction or Serial Killer would make. Your comments on Day 1 to the effect of, "Robz! You should lynch EFHW even if you think I'm scum because I may be on a separate scum team!" was an all-too revelatory moment. As was your recent comment about your certainty that there is a 5-man scum team--something a Serial Killer would know most of all (and 5 people + a Serial Killer fits that bill).
I mean, do we think we have a Serial Killer or not? If we think we do, then the Serial Killer shot shraeye. Who would shoot shraeye? Clearly you. You were all-too eager to trumpet how vindicated you were about having this scum read on him.
If you are a vig, this means you broke the vig rules by shooting on Day 1--something I don't think yuo would do--and there is no SK. This seems less likely to me.
(Of course blocking or what have you can screw up some of the calculus here, but the most simple explanation is that Voltgloss is an SK who shot shraeye.)
If you are the SK, I can see why you would sheep Voltgloss so much. You are legitimiately trying to be pro-town and scum hunt. I mean you're even doing a pretty good job, you did get shraeye. Ingratiating oneself to the IC and having a moderately successful track record of finding mafia has to be fairly good SK play here. I actually just think you played it a little too well. That you are the SK is just super obvious at this point.
I'm not ruling out a multi-SK situation like we had in Mafia XI, where there was a true SK and also a non-killing SK stalker accomplice... I don't know. Something like that. You may not be alone, is what I'm saying.
Anyway, killing the SK isn't even necessarily the best thing from town perspective, but I don't have even close to as high a scumread on anyone else, except Eevee, who I am also happy to lynch--and we know doing so doesn't harm us.
Of course, since we've had some PRs revealed at this point, we probably do just want to minimize the damage scum night kills can do.
We should lynch Voltaire.
Alright. Time for my big claim post.
Part of the reason that I've been somewhat more reserved today is because I've been grappling with whether I should do this or not. But I've just got to do it, it's tearing me up inside.
I'm claiming! You know by now that I'm Britta. Functionally, that makes me a Wannabe Psychologist, or Modified Gunsmith. I can investigate someone at night and determine if they have the ability to kill. However, if someone has killed already when I investigate them, I will get a false negative.
Last night I turned this ability on Voltaire, as I (correctly) guessed that he would come under some scrutiny today. My result was...no potential to kill. Bear in mind that maybe he just killed before I analyzed him, or something else crazy happened, so it's not a 100% sure thing.
I was trying to hold onto this until Day 3, when maybe I would have another attempt, but I feel like my chances go down with each successive night, and if I die without saying anything well then it would have been worthless. I thought I might be able to at least bring another piece of evidence to the table today.
I also know this is coming amidst a flurry of other claims, so you can take this as you will. For what it's worth, I find the naďve cop and captained doctor claims plausible but the survivor less so...I believe I will vote: eevee for now.
There are like 12,000 cops and none of them investigated me, huh?
I didn't think you were the best choice. And why would I follow those instructions anyway? Weren't you criticizing Voltaire for following Voltgloss too blindly, without questioning orders? How is this much different? I did what I thought was right.
I didn't think you were the best choice. And why would I follow those instructions anyway? Weren't you criticizing Voltaire for following Voltgloss too blindly, without questioning orders? How is this much different? I did what I thought was right.
By my book you did right. I believe your claim right now.
Oh guys. I am like 5 pages behind. I am going to catch up as quickly as I can but I make no promises about it being tonight.
Oh guys. I am like 5 pages behind. I am going to catch up as quickly as I can but I make no promises about it being tonight.
It is your turn to show claim, if you can at least do that.
GodfatherGodfatherGodfatherThere are like 12,000 cops and none of them investigated me, huh?
Why so eager to be investigated?
Ok, there's a lot going on. I find Walrus's claim believable, and I hope it's not just b/c having Voltaire cleared makes everything simpler. Since it was N1, and kills are resolved last, then the psychologist receiving a negative result would mean the target was indeed not capable of killing.
Modern Family
Are we massclaiming? What's with all the claims??
What are people thinking now about liopoil/Jorbles? There was a big movement to lynch liopoil. Where did it go?
Modern Family
Are we massclaiming? What's with all the claims??
chairs thinks he may be able to clear someone, depending on which show they are from. So we are all showclaiming. Then he will say if his result is meaningful, and who he targeted, I think.
Also: Remember I also proposed Archetype as a possible lynch. Similar to your proposing ahoppy, almost nobody responded to that (the only one I remember is Robz). Do you draw the same conclusions vis-a-vis Archetype as you do vis-a-vis ahoppy? If not, what is different?
What are people thinking now about liopoil/Jorbles? There was a big movement to lynch liopoil. Where did it go?
I still absolutely believe he is town.
What are people thinking now about liopoil/Jorbles? There was a big movement to lynch liopoil. Where did it go?
I still absolutely believe he is town.
Ok, I'm not saying I disagree, but can you elaborate as to why?
OK, serious question time.This was the peak of the EFHW wagon. She was tied with our eventual lynch, mcmc. I've colored our flips.Vote Count 1.33:
liopoil (7): Robz888, shraeye, AHoppy, Dsell, faust, sudgy, Galzria
nkirbit (1): bocaJ
sudgy (1): Eevee
mcmc (5): EFHW, Walrus, mail-mi, Archetype, chairs
chairs (1): nkirbit
EFHW (5): Voltgloss, Voltiare, mcmcsaolot, liopoil, Twistedarcher
Not Voting (0):
With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch.
Day 1 ends on September 23 at 9:22 p.m.OneHalf hour to deadline.
And again, I've got a town read on EFHW.
I do not believe mcmc's lynch was scum free.
I do not believe that all 5 on EFHW's wagon are town that switched from one town to another (well, 4, discounting mcmc himself).
Voltgloss is town.
That leaves you, TA and liopoil.
Galz:
I understand your townread on EFHW. I agree there was likely scum on mcmc's wagon.
Here's where I need help following your reasoning:
Put yourself in the shoes of scum on mcmc's wagon. The IC, one of the people on that wagon, suddenly starts a new wagon on another person. Assume for the sake of argument that the target of that wagon (EFHW) is also town.
Do you switch? If so, why?
Now, flip it around. Put yourself in the shoes of scum on liopoil's wagon. The IC, one of the people on the competing wagon, suddenly starts a new wagon on another person. Assume for the sake of argument that the target of both that wagon (EFHW) and the wagon you're on (liopoil/Jorbles) is town.
Do you switch? If so, why?
For some reason I can't find psychologist in the wiki, only psychiatrist, which is something else entirely. I'm pretty sure it used to be there....
@Walrus -- gunsmith can only detect firearms. You say your role is modified gunsmith. Does that mean you can detect all methods of killing?
PPE: TA, is Dede a friend of yours?
Vote Count 1.32:
liopoil (8*): Robz888, shraeye, AHoppy, Dsell, mcmcsalot, faust, sudgy, Galzria
nkirbit (1): bocaJ
sudgy (1): Eevee
mcmc (8): EFHW, Walrus, mail-mi, Archetype, chairs, Voltaire, Twistedarcher, liopoil
chairs (1): nkirbit
Archetype (1): Voltgloss
Not Voting (0):
With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch.
Day 1 Final Vote Count:
liopoil (6): Robz888, shraeye, AHoppy, faust, sudgy, Galzria
nkirbit (1): bocaJ
sudgy (1): Eeveemcmcsalot(10): EFHW, Walrus, mail-mi, Archetype, chairs, Twistedarcher, liopoil, Dsell, Voltgloss, Voltaire
chairs (1): nkirbit
EFHW (1): mcmcsalot
Not Voting (0):
With 20 alive, it took 11 to lynch.
Day 1 ended on September 23 at 9:22 p.m.
Did mcmc seriously leave? That makes me a lot more willing to vote for him.
I can't justify moving to mcmc without a lio claim.
whew. The thing is, I really shouldn't be feeling relieved, because this is still probably a mislynch...Makes me feel better about voting you, he's already posturing.
I think we should leave Eevee alive today. He's playing like town, in my opinion, and I can see pro-town thought in his actions. I think scum would want to lynch Eevee pretending he could be scum, as it removes the chance the lynch falls on them.
I do think Eevee could be scum, but he's not acting like it right now. That buys him the day for me.
I think we should leave Eevee alive today. He's playing like town, in my opinion, and I can see pro-town thought in his actions. I think scum would want to lynch Eevee pretending he could be scum, as it removes the chance the lynch falls on them.
I do think Eevee could be scum, but he's not acting like it right now. That buys him the day for me.
Isn't what you say about scum voting Eevee true for anyone they vote? If you're scum, then it's true of your vote. That doesn't seem like any kind of argument for not voting Eevee. And if I got suspicion for timing, look at his! His first substantial posts in the entire game are now, and they're pretty vague, really. Obviously I can't be sure Eevee is scum, but I really have to disagree with your points here.
I think we should leave Eevee alive today. He's playing like town, in my opinion, and I can see pro-town thought in his actions. I think scum would want to lynch Eevee pretending he could be scum, as it removes the chance the lynch falls on them.
I do think Eevee could be scum, but he's not acting like it right now. That buys him the day for me.
Isn't what you say about scum voting Eevee true for anyone they vote? If you're scum, then it's true of your vote. That doesn't seem like any kind of argument for not voting Eevee. And if I got suspicion for timing, look at his! His first substantial posts in the entire game are now, and they're pretty vague, really. Obviously I can't be sure Eevee is scum, but I really have to disagree with your points here.
I completely agree with your comment about the timing, yes. I'm not sure I follow the "true for anyone they vote" part of your first sentence. Can you rephrase/explain?
1. What I mean is, say that there's a scum team. One of them decides to claim survivor. I don't think most of them vote to lynch him.
2. Say there's a survivor. They claim survivor. I think most scum vote to lynch him (claiming he could actually be scum).
I think we should leave Eevee alive today. He's playing like town, in my opinion, and I can see pro-town thought in his actions. I think scum would want to lynch Eevee pretending he could be scum, as it removes the chance the lynch falls on them.
I do think Eevee could be scum, but he's not acting like it right now. That buys him the day for me.
Isn't what you say about scum voting Eevee true for anyone they vote? If you're scum, then it's true of your vote. That doesn't seem like any kind of argument for not voting Eevee. And if I got suspicion for timing, look at his! His first substantial posts in the entire game are now, and they're pretty vague, really. Obviously I can't be sure Eevee is scum, but I really have to disagree with your points here.
I completely agree with your comment about the timing, yes. I'm not sure I follow the "true for anyone they vote" part of your first sentence. Can you rephrase/explain?
1. What I mean is, say that there's a scum team. One of them decides to claim survivor. I don't think most of them vote to lynch him.
2. Say there's a survivor. They claim survivor. I think most scum vote to lynch him (claiming he could actually be scum).
I numbered your two points. I think they are both always true, anyway. Replace "survivor" with "VT". Wouldn't scum still act the same?
Mods: Assuming Walrus's role claim is true, and he investigated someone who has capacity to kill, and his target made their first kill on the night Walrus investigated them - what result would Walrus get?
Mods: Assuming Walrus's role claim is true, and he investigated someone who has capacity to kill, and his target made their first kill on the night Walrus investigated them - what result would Walrus get?
Trust me, I tried to get a straight answer out of them too before reporting here. They kept going on about the "Natural Order Resolution", and that I have an "Investigative Role". From my limited understanding that means Voltaire might have killed someone before I had a chance to analyze, but someone with more familiarity with the system can comment on that.
Mods: Assuming Walrus's role claim is true, and he investigated someone who has capacity to kill, and his target made their first kill on the night Walrus investigated them - what result would Walrus get?
Trust me, I tried to get a straight answer out of them too before reporting here. They kept going on about the "Natural Order Resolution", and that I have an "Investigative Role". From my limited understanding that means Voltaire might have killed someone before I had a chance to analyze, but someone with more familiarity with the system can comment on that.
OK. I am familiar with that system - I use it myself in games that I mod - and yes, under that system, killing happens before investigation. So, yes, if Voltaire killed someone last night, and if your role operates the way you claim it does, then you would get a "no capacity to kill" false negative on Voltaire.
Trust me, I tried to get a straight answer out of them too before reporting here. They kept going on about the "Natural Order Resolution", and that I have an "Investigative Role". From my limited understanding that means Voltaire might have killed someone before I had a chance to analyze, but someone with more familiarity with the system can comment on that.Actually, I think this post makes Walrus' claim much more likely to be true. If it was a fakeclaim, why would he pretend not to know exactly how his role works?
Mods: Assuming Walrus's role claim is true, and he investigated someone who has capacity to kill, and his target made their first kill on the night Walrus investigated them - what result would Walrus get?
Trust me, I tried to get a straight answer out of them too before reporting here. They kept going on about the "Natural Order Resolution", and that I have an "Investigative Role". From my limited understanding that means Voltaire might have killed someone before I had a chance to analyze, but someone with more familiarity with the system can comment on that.
OK. I am familiar with that system - I use it myself in games that I mod - and yes, under that system, killing happens before investigation. So, yes, if Voltaire killed someone last night, and if your role operates the way you claim it does, then you would get a "no capacity to kill" false negative on Voltaire.
But if Voltaire did kill last night, he killed scum. He could be SK or vig still, but not mafia.
What are people thinking now about liopoil/Jorbles? There was a big movement to lynch liopoil. Where did it go?I think this should be answered.
Dsell, why did you switch to mcmc at the end of the day?
But if Voltaire did kill last night, he killed scum. He could be SK or vig still, but not mafia.
Damnit EFHW. Don't make me be wrong about you. Granted you corrected yourself in the following post, but I read this as "If he killed last night he killed scum, because I know that scum killed nkirbit" (scum being Mafia here, not SK).
It's a slip, certainly. Some slips are real. Some aren't. It decreases the read I have on you however... And that makes me nervous since my read on you is based primarily on your interactions towards me - which could certainly be false positives.
Mods: Assuming Walrus's role claim is true, and he investigated someone who has capacity to kill, and his target made their first kill on the night Walrus investigated them - what result would Walrus get?
Trust me, I tried to get a straight answer out of them too before reporting here. They kept going on about the "Natural Order Resolution", and that I have an "Investigative Role". From my limited understanding that means Voltaire might have killed someone before I had a chance to analyze, but someone with more familiarity with the system can comment on that.
OK. I am familiar with that system - I use it myself in games that I mod - and yes, under that system, killing happens before investigation. So, yes, if Voltaire killed someone last night, and if your role operates the way you claim it does, then you would get a "no capacity to kill" false negative on Voltaire.
Robz could also be scum for all I know. I wish he would appear and explain why he was so upset about not being investigated.
Increasingly suspicious of Robz...of course he's been a vocal opponent of Voltaire, and I'm not sure I like the way he responded to my claim...frustration at not being investigated and then silence. What do you think of my claim? What's your opinion on Voltaire now? There may be a scum connection here IMO. Also, the fact that he supports an Eevee lynch gives me further reason to think on that position.
I never said that my claim proved anything. I was quite sure to qualify that. I still thought it was better out on the table than not. What this does mean is that it's less probable that Voltaire is Mafia (assuming you believe my claim), and in a game of probabilities I don't think that's worth nothing.
Bad idea? Maybe. I did assume that you would yell at me for claiming and I was quite prepared for that.
"Elusive Junior SK Buddy"? Sounds hilarious, but improbable to me.
But if Voltaire did kill last night, he killed scum. He could be SK or vig still, but not mafia.
Damnit EFHW. Don't make me be wrong about you. Granted you corrected yourself in the following post, but I read this as "If he killed last night he killed scum, because I know that scum killed nkirbit" (scum being Mafia here, not SK).
It's a slip, certainly. Some slips are real. Some aren't. It decreases the read I have on you however... And that makes me nervous since my read on you is based primarily on your interactions towards me - which could certainly be false positives.
Here's one of my top scenarios right now:
Voltaire is third party. SK variant most likely. He's legitimately scum hunting.
Last night he shot Shraeye. Shraeye was a real scum read of his, and he wanted to hit scum for the town!cred (If asuspect of his turns up scum, he looks good). EFHW confirms that Mafia shot nkirbit, which means that the person who shot Shraeye had a legitimate scum read on him. Not many outside Voltaire can say this, and Voltaire has made certain to point it out.
Now, this completely nullifies Walrus's result. I think his claim was bad, because if it's true he should've realized that one of two things were true:
A) Voltaire can't shoot
B) Voltaire already has shot.
The only situation that neither is true is if he's Shraeye's partner, but didn't shoot. In other words, the claim adds nothing.
Now, onto AHoppy. Voltgloss, have you noticed that Voltaire has consistently and deliberately ignored me every time I've brought up their connection? Like Robz, I recall M-XI, which had Munch/Frisk as SK/SK-wanna-be. After the game, we decided that it was a good concept but needed to be reformatted. I think you're seeing that here. I think they share a QT. This is why he's had a "town" read on AHoppy all game (since before established reads were reasonable). It's why he's refused to vote for AHoppy. It's why he knows AHoppy's flavor.
I think that they'll claim to be Masons. I think this is a lie. I think that, as Robz put it, you have SK and SK "jr". It gives the "SK team" a better chance of winning if Voltaire dies (AHoppy inherits his powers). Could they actually be Masons? Sure. But the shot on Shraeye, and Voltaire's play on it since then (clamoring for as much town cred as possible) suggests otherwise. And I don't see anybody else for whom that shot choice makes sense.
EFHW confirms that Mafia shot nkirbit
Here's one of my top scenarios right now:
Voltaire is third party. SK variant most likely. He's legitimately scum hunting.
Last night he shot Shraeye. Shraeye was a real scum read of his, and he wanted to hit scum for the town!cred (If asuspect of his turns up scum, he looks good). EFHW confirms that Mafia shot nkirbit, which means that the person who shot Shraeye had a legitimate scum read on him. Not many outside Voltaire can say this, and Voltaire has made certain to point it out.
Now, this completely nullifies Walrus's result. I think his claim was bad, because if it's true he should've realized that one of two things were true:
A) Voltaire can't shoot
B) Voltaire already has shot.
The only situation that neither is true is if he's Shraeye's partner, but didn't shoot. In other words, the claim adds nothing.
Did we finish show-claiming? Where is chairs? We could use another IC 'round about now.
4. Roles with Night actions will not be able to submit an action on Night 0 (i.e. during the confirmation stage), unless your Role PM specifically allows it.
From the opening post.
Okay, I do think the Mcmc lynch is a mistake. I am a 1-shot Tracker. Last night, I tracked mcmcsalot. He took no action. I think this makes him significantly less likely to be scum, given what we know already.
FWIW, I have some (disastrous) experience as a Tracker (in M-XII, where I epic fail at it), but I still think my psychology for picking who to track was pretty much on in that game, so I stuck with it. I don't want to track the obvious people, because the obvious people aren't going to kill anyone (because they expect the tracker to be watching them). This is mafia 101, even in games without a tracker for some reason the less suspicious partner does the kill (Galz always did the kill in M-II; I was more suspicious, even though it didn't matter). So I was not going to track the people who came under heavy suspicion yesterday, which includes shraeye, Jimm, and Eevee basically. I was never going to track Galzria because he's just too obvious a person anyway, and there's always that likelihood he gets nightkilled just for being Galzria--which I bet is what happened here; I doubt a scum faction really thought they were shooting scum in Galz. So I wanted to pick someone who I thought could be scum, but who didn't know that I thought they could be scum. Like, Glooble and Dsell I really didn't think were scum, so I wasn't picking them. Also, just from what I know about my brother, he's like a really gung-ho guy (he posted his phone number in blitz whatever for goodness sake, so people could tell him when the lynch was happening), and it seemed reasonable if he was on a scumfaction he'd be likely to be the one taking the shot, just because he wanted to, in addition to everything else.
Well, he didn't do anything. I've thought about this a lot; this means he's probably not scum, right? If he were scum, and he were on Galzria's team, well, Galz is the rolecop, and it's pretty likely Galz can't take the shot AND rolecop someone, so unless it's a three person team, Mcmc takes the shot there. If Mcmc were SK, he has to take the shot. Of course there's a perfectly plausible scenario where Mcmc is on some other team, and for whatever reason was not the person who took the shot.
But anyway, I think we'd have to be PRETTY SURE to lynch him, since mathematically it seems to me like his odds of scum are much, much lower, right? I wouldn't bring this up if I thought it was a slamdunk case, but it's not a slamdunk case and from where I am standing it is the least likely lynch to hit scum.
Galz/Robz, do you have day chat?
Robz, are you able to neighborize someone else to replace Galz? (Not saying you should, just asking if you can)
Galz/Robz, do you have day chat?
Robz, are you able to neighborize someone else to replace Galz? (Not saying you should, just asking if you can)
Like... Mentor-Mentee?Galz/Robz, do you have day chat?
Robz, are you able to neighborize someone else to replace Galz? (Not saying you should, just asking if you can)
Yes, we have day chat.
If Galz dies, I must replace him, yes.
....
FOS: Everybody distracting from the Shraeye/TA situation. It was a very good catch by TA that Shraeye pointed out Nkirbit's absence but not Robz'. Shraeye is coming out really aggressively here and I'm not sure there is anything there. He accused TA of being substanceless but I don't find that to be 1)true or 2)a big deal at this stage of the game.
Or it's not scummy in the first place and both players were just reminding people of their limited availability... (and Shraeye jumped on it unreasonably)Better explanation: It's not scummy when Robz does it.easy explanation. I noticed it when nkirbit did it. I ddn't notice that Robz did it.I am super-curious why you pointed this out about Nkirbit, but not about Robz, when they said literally the exact same thing.Hey guys! I'm going to be fairly busy until at least Wednesday night, just a heads up.Ok, thanks for letting us know that you're super concerned about being labelled a lurker.
....
I think flavor discussion is 90% a waste of time and distraction. I actually agree with...I think it was faust? who said that people who continue harping on this are scummier. Ash and yuma did not create a game that can be solved on day 1 with any amount of claiming, so let's focus on more important things.
I do not want to lynch Galzria today. I think it is noble of him to discuss it, but there is too much unknown about his role and he is too valuable of a player. If he is scum, he is playing a risky strategy (something I would not put past him), but that doesn't seem like the case to me here.
Oh, and vote: L-street but I don't care at all.
Here's my take on the Galzria thing. I think Galz is more likely town. Maybe just trying to be proactive, maybe partially on the back of success in HP, he makes this announcement about his role and has all the discussion and hoopla about it, but in the meantime is obviously not scumhunting. I don't think that's so much a scummy thing as just a natural result of him taking time for this "big announcement" in a game that's only lasted 36 hours. I kinda wish he hadn't taken the time to do this but it doesn't make him super scummy in my eyes and it does give the town something to talk about.
So I'm actually more suspicious of the people who are accusing him and jumping on his bandwagon, because I don't see a genuinely good reason why Galz would do this as town [I think he means scum here], nor do I think his lack of scumhunting is as egregious as it's being made out to be.
Dsell was the first liopoil vote:
.... Vote: Galzria
for a much different reason. I would have done this right after his claim post if I had been around.
....
Vote: Liopoil because this sounds like a huge stretch. Why would scum fakeclaim so early, with something that's tied to another role out there? Provoking him for not self-voting? IMO this is the worst of those who hopped on the Galz bandwagon.
I am not going to vote for nkirbit over this but I am also never going to forget it.
I can't expound at the moment but I find it to be a highly plausible claim for a scumbuddy to give him. I lean towards believing him but paranoid gun owner is pretty convenient.
Holy fridge how did I miss nkirbit get to 8 votes!?
That seemed really fast. Nkirbit kinda freaked out, yes, and I think ALL of this claiming business (not just nkirbit's part) has been nonsense, but I am still unconvinced that he's scum. He might be scummier than average but I do not think he is the best lynch for today.
TA has been really adamant that scum has been leading the charge against nkirbit, but I don't know that I agree...not because I necessarily think it's been a scum-free wagon but because I haven't seen anyone being really terribly outspoken against him. A lot of people have expressed suspicion and voted but TA, who in your mind has been leading this wagon? Who of them do you think is likely scum? To my eyes, this wagon formed rather naturally, and due to nkirbit's own actions, rather than anyone else's.
I just finished catching up, I went to the fair! (Deep fried cheesecake, anyone?) It is super late here so without responding to everything I just wanted to say that I'm ok with a lurker lynch. .... [says why]
A non-exhaustive list of lurkers in my mind includes: ahoppy, mcmc, archetype (somewhat surprisingly), liopoil (I also happen to find him scummy), chairs. Maybe others.
Dsell, what do you think about chairs' response and the post EFHW linked?
Well, it is really hard to say, you know? Everyone has a different playstyle, so maybe he felt really "caught" and just resigned himself to being lynched. But actually calling himself "caught" when that wasn't really the case seems strange. I have been caught as scum before, and I have felt caught before, but the two feel (to me) completely different, and I would never call the one the other.
So it seems very plausible to me that he was exaggerating the situation to paint nkirbit as scummy. But I admit it's a tricky situation. Most cross-game comparisons are, to some degree or other.
Like... Mentor-Mentee?Galz/Robz, do you have day chat?
Robz, are you able to neighborize someone else to replace Galz? (Not saying you should, just asking if you can)
Yes, we have day chat.
If Galz dies, I must replace him, yes.
and I can't find it. Bottom line is: nkirbit suggested that a vig shoot Galzria. sudgy said 'yeah. do it.' Eevee was like NOO DON'T!This is not at all a scumtell in my eyes.
Hecks yeah it is.and I can't find it. Bottom line is: nkirbit suggested that a vig shoot Galzria. sudgy said 'yeah. do it.' Eevee was like NOO DON'T!This is not at all a scumtell in my eyes.
That's right, his partner wouldn't want him to die. But I think town might not want him to die as well (for all we knew back then, Galz could have enabled town). And above that, directing the vig was not good here I think. So Eevee had every reason to be against it.Hecks yeah it is.and I can't find it. Bottom line is: nkirbit suggested that a vig shoot Galzria. sudgy said 'yeah. do it.' Eevee was like NOO DON'T!This is not at all a scumtell in my eyes.
If I knew my partner was an Enabled X and there was a claimed Enabler, I wouldn't want them to die. No way.
Exactly. I have a hard time believing Survivor!Eevee would give a dang about whether Galzria was shot or not.That's right, his partner wouldn't want him to die. But I think town might not want him to die as well (for all we knew back then, Galz could have enabled town). And above that, directing the vig was not good here I think. So Eevee had every reason to be against it.Hecks yeah it is.and I can't find it. Bottom line is: nkirbit suggested that a vig shoot Galzria. sudgy said 'yeah. do it.' Eevee was like NOO DON'T!This is not at all a scumtell in my eyes.
If I knew my partner was an Enabled X and there was a claimed Enabler, I wouldn't want them to die. No way.
...but this is thinking Eevee was town, which obviously he isn't. As Survivor, yeah, why would he even care? Okay, you've got some kind of a point here.
So your not a neighborizer, but a Mentor. Which could very well mean that you are not aligned with us. If you die, galz will too, right?Like... Mentor-Mentee?Galz/Robz, do you have day chat?
Robz, are you able to neighborize someone else to replace Galz? (Not saying you should, just asking if you can)
Yes, we have day chat.
If Galz dies, I must replace him, yes.
Yes.
This is very interesting, and I don't have a non-scum read on Eevee anymore. (Can't really have a town read if he isn't town.)Exactly. I have a hard time believing Survivor!Eevee would give a dang about whether Galzria was shot or not.That's right, his partner wouldn't want him to die. But I think town might not want him to die as well (for all we knew back then, Galz could have enabled town). And above that, directing the vig was not good here I think. So Eevee had every reason to be against it.Hecks yeah it is.and I can't find it. Bottom line is: nkirbit suggested that a vig shoot Galzria. sudgy said 'yeah. do it.' Eevee was like NOO DON'T!This is not at all a scumtell in my eyes.
If I knew my partner was an Enabled X and there was a claimed Enabler, I wouldn't want them to die. No way.
...but this is thinking Eevee was town, which obviously he isn't. As Survivor, yeah, why would he even care? Okay, you've got some kind of a point here.
So your not a neighborizer, but a Mentor. Which could very well mean that you are not aligned with us. If you die, galz will too, right?Like... Mentor-Mentee?Galz/Robz, do you have day chat?
Robz, are you able to neighborize someone else to replace Galz? (Not saying you should, just asking if you can)
Yes, we have day chat.
If Galz dies, I must replace him, yes.
Yes.
Just making sure.So your not a neighborizer, but a Mentor. Which could very well mean that you are not aligned with us. If you die, galz will too, right?Like... Mentor-Mentee?Galz/Robz, do you have day chat?
Robz, are you able to neighborize someone else to replace Galz? (Not saying you should, just asking if you can)
Yes, we have day chat.
If Galz dies, I must replace him, yes.
Yes.
No, I do not. Robz was only saying that it is -like- Mentor/Mentee in that we have chat at all times - which is what he had said prior to your leaping to other conclusions.
I investigated Galzria, but I am naive towards modern family.
Sorry :(
vote: eevee. Enabler isn't a concern for a Survivor.
Alright, madness in the last 24 hours. Somewhat to be expected I suppose. I don't know if I can keep up with it all, but I promised one more post so here it is.
So EFHW has a wagon running now too. I'm not sure about this one...certainly she had lurked, but her lurkage seemed more benevolent to me than mcmc's, and at least she's started to join the conversation. That earns points in my book, at least D1. I'd rather lynch lio than EFHW I think.
shraeye, hmmm, I see your point about scum hanging out in the twilight zone. My opinion of lio has grown scummier in this game lately.
The last few pages of discussion have decreased my town opinion of Voltaire somewhat. Robz makes some good points and it is interesting to see Voltaire's continued deference to Voltgloss laid out so plainly. Not that some cooperation is a bad thing; I mean, I was glad to change my vote even though I still have my suspicions about nkirbit. But still it seems a little on the obsequious side, and does make me question Voltaire's motives.
I think this makes me want to lynch mcmc even more. Maybe he's just a superlurk. But even if so he's not helping the town, and I do agree that it could be very informative to see what he flips if lynched. It might give us important clues especially on Robz, Voltaire, and Galzria, 3 strong-minded and experienced individuals in the limelight who are currently difficult for me to read. If anything, right now I'm feeling town on all three but trending towards scum, which is not terribly helpful I know...but I'm beginning to see just how informative an mcmc lynch could possibly be. I don't think lynching Robz, Galz or Voltaire D1 would be a great thing to do...maybe later depending on how the chips fall.
Ughhh, too much work, and too many posts. I'm going to keep my vote as is for right now and I don't know if I'll have time to update before nightfall. I'd be ok with a liopoil lynch as well, as I do think he might be scum, but IMO a better long-term strategy would be to lynch mcmc tonight and see what happens.
Alright, madness in the last 24 hours. Somewhat to be expected I suppose. I don't know if I can keep up with it all, but I promised one more post so here it is.
So EFHW has a wagon running now too. I'm not sure about this one...certainly she had lurked, but her lurkage seemed more benevolent to me than mcmc's, and at least she's started to join the conversation. That earns points in my book, at least D1. I'd rather lynch lio than EFHW I think.
shraeye, hmmm, I see your point about scum hanging out in the twilight zone. My opinion of lio has grown scummier in this game lately.
The last few pages of discussion have decreased my town opinion of Voltaire somewhat. Robz makes some good points and it is interesting to see Voltaire's continued deference to Voltgloss laid out so plainly. Not that some cooperation is a bad thing; I mean, I was glad to change my vote even though I still have my suspicions about nkirbit. But still it seems a little on the obsequious side, and does make me question Voltaire's motives.
I think this makes me want to lynch mcmc even more. Maybe he's just a superlurk. But even if so he's not helping the town, and I do agree that it could be very informative to see what he flips if lynched. It might give us important clues especially on Robz, Voltaire, and Galzria, 3 strong-minded and experienced individuals in the limelight who are currently difficult for me to read. If anything, right now I'm feeling town on all three but trending towards scum, which is not terribly helpful I know...but I'm beginning to see just how informative an mcmc lynch could possibly be. I don't think lynching Robz, Galz or Voltaire D1 would be a great thing to do...maybe later depending on how the chips fall.
Ughhh, too much work, and too many posts. I'm going to keep my vote as is for right now and I don't know if I'll have time to update before nightfall. I'd be ok with a liopoil lynch as well, as I do think he might be scum, but IMO a better long-term strategy would be to lynch mcmc tonight and see what happens.
Walrus -- Can you comment on what you think we learned from the mcmc lynch?
one more thing on Dsell - looking it over again, he argues against lynching Galzria 7 times during Day 1.
But I still have a hard time reconciling Dsell defending me with his being scum, especially at that point. When shraeye supported me, there wasn't any kind of turning point taking place. That has also been shraeye's m.o. in the past. I know this argument only works if I'm not mafia, so it probably won't carry much weight for some, but I wanted to mention it.
The reason to vote for Eevee is if you don't believe him. I'm looking for another person who seems scummier, but I don't know whether to believe Eevee or not. Like I said before, his claim only really helps himself.That's not strictly why I'm voting for him.
one more thing on Dsell - looking it over again, he argues against lynching Galzria 7 times during Day 1.
But I still have a hard time reconciling Dsell defending me with his being scum, especially at that point. When shraeye supported me, there wasn't any kind of turning point taking place. That has also been shraeye's m.o. in the past. I know this argument only works if I'm not mafia, so it probably won't carry much weight for some, but I wanted to mention it.
EFHW, why does this make you think Dsell is town? As scum, I decided to defend ash for "cred" in WWTWDP (maybe not a great call, but...) Why couldn't Dsell be defending you (if you're town, as I'm beginning to think you may be) for cred? Especially as he's someone who argued against lynching Galz.
I'm not saying Dsell is obv!scum, but I think when you POE away players likely to be town and look at the remaining pool, he's a pretty decent fit for a shraeye partner.
This Galzria situation is a real mind-bender...my gut tells me that lynching him would be a bad move, but I don't really know what to think. A lotta ins, a lotta outs, a lotta what-have-yous.
I'm not going to vote for him right now in any case. The 75% comment also seems innocuous enough to me.
In fact, let me unvote for the time being. I would think that if Shraeye were scum, he would have turned up by now to defend himself more effectively. Maybe he was just being a bit blunt after all. Also, a couple of other people jumped on the Shraeye boat after me with minimal justification--not that my initial reasoning was any less tenuous, but still it raises some eyebrows.
Anyway, what I'm trying to say here is, I have no idea what I'm doing :)
The reason to vote for Eevee is if you don't believe him. I'm looking for another person who seems scummier, but I don't know whether to believe Eevee or not. Like I said before, his claim only really helps himself.That's not strictly why I'm voting for him.
As far as rereading techniques go, I had two f.ds tabs open with one set to reply. I scan through the thread page by page on the other tab and write down my thoughts in the other tab. If I see a good quote, I quote it and copy and paste it into the other tab. Then hit 'back page' on the reading tab to resume the reread.
I rapidly scroll until I see a blurry image of their profile picture then stop and read that post and occasionally the posts around it for context.The reason to vote for Eevee is if you don't believe him. I'm looking for another person who seems scummier, but I don't know whether to believe Eevee or not. Like I said before, his claim only really helps himself.That's not strictly why I'm voting for him.
As far as rereading techniques go, I had two f.ds tabs open with one set to reply. I scan through the thread page by page on the other tab and write down my thoughts in the other tab. If I see a good quote, I quote it and copy and paste it into the other tab. Then hit 'back page' on the reading tab to resume the reread.
So do you reread the entire thread each time you are rereading a person? I do the same thing with the tabs, but I only reread the person's posts for the most part.
Arch - Then why are you voting for Eevee? Are you worried about using up a lynch on a survivor who has sworn to help town?I don't believe him. Well, not 100% anyways. I guess he might be. But my main reason is that he wanted a Vig to shoot Galzria and I don't really think a Survivor would want that. So he could be a Survivor, but I'm not willing to take the chance.
Can people voting for Eevee please explain why we want to lynch the claimed Survivor instead of possible mafia? (I know that Eevee is possible mafia, but do you not see how he is playing pro-town right now? Why is he still a better lynch choice?) I maintain that if Eevee truly is survivor then scum are voting for him. It removes the chance the lynch falls on themselves.
That's your main reason? I seem to recall that it was Eevee saying no to lynch galz...Arch - Then why are you voting for Eevee? Are you worried about using up a lynch on a survivor who has sworn to help town?I don't believe him. Well, not 100% anyways. I guess he might be. But my main reason is that he wanted a Vig to shoot Galzria and I don't really think a Survivor would want that. So he could be a Survivor, but I'm not willing to take the chance.
There was one post by Eevee that I saw that gave me a huge scumread on him. I'll go dig that one
and I can't find it. Bottom line is: nkirbit suggested that a vig shoot Galzria. sudgy said 'yeah. do it.' Eevee was like NOO DON'T!
Vote: Eevee I don't remember if my vote was already there, but if it wasn't, it is now. He's my preferred lynch today and it'll take a lot of convincing to vote otherwise.
Hah! Yeah. I got it backwards.That's your main reason? I seem to recall that it was Eevee saying no to lynch galz...Arch - Then why are you voting for Eevee? Are you worried about using up a lynch on a survivor who has sworn to help town?I don't believe him. Well, not 100% anyways. I guess he might be. But my main reason is that he wanted a Vig to shoot Galzria and I don't really think a Survivor would want that. So he could be a Survivor, but I'm not willing to take the chance.There was one post by Eevee that I saw that gave me a huge scumread on him. I'll go dig that one
and I can't find it. Bottom line is: nkirbit suggested that a vig shoot Galzria. sudgy said 'yeah. do it.' Eevee was like NOO DON'T!
Vote: Eevee I don't remember if my vote was already there, but if it wasn't, it is now. He's my preferred lynch today and it'll take a lot of convincing to vote otherwise.
lol what now? I think firmly opposed that, it was and is a horrendous idea.Arch - Then why are you voting for Eevee? Are you worried about using up a lynch on a survivor who has sworn to help town?I don't believe him. Well, not 100% anyways. I guess he might be. But my main reason is that he wanted a Vig to shoot Galzria and I don't really think a Survivor would want that. So he could be a Survivor, but I'm not willing to take the chance.
Look at the post directly above your's.lol what now? I think firmly opposed that, it was and is a horrendous idea.Arch - Then why are you voting for Eevee? Are you worried about using up a lynch on a survivor who has sworn to help town?I don't believe him. Well, not 100% anyways. I guess he might be. But my main reason is that he wanted a Vig to shoot Galzria and I don't really think a Survivor would want that. So he could be a Survivor, but I'm not willing to take the chance.
She is, along with me, the only one to show concern about show claiming, which is weird because I would expect some scum to take that position.
And you of course know that pro-town does not equal town. It's ridiculous for you to act like you don't.
So the idea of a mafia psychologist isn't insane. If we treat that as a real possibility, I think we'd be led to conclude that if we have 1 scumteam then there is an SK and a vig.
Because it would make the scum psychologist more useful. Give him more targets. Maybe it's just his newbieness and his play style, but his posts feel scummy to me. Also partially gut feeling. But I agree with EFHW and for now, am leaving my vote on Walrus. Also, is it possible that scum have been given fakeclaims? Isn't that something that can be done? Or would we have to know that upfront? (yeah, I know I'm accusing Walrus for playing up his newbiness, but I haven't been in a game with scum fakeclaims prepared, but I think I have heard of that being a thing, so also being semi-new, please forgive the questions, thanks!)So the idea of a mafia psychologist isn't insane. If we treat that as a real possibility, I think we'd be led to conclude that if we have 1 scumteam then there is an SK and a vig.
Why?
Because it would make the scum psychologist more useful. Give him more targets.So the idea of a mafia psychologist isn't insane. If we treat that as a real possibility, I think we'd be led to conclude that if we have 1 scumteam then there is an SK and a vig.
Why?
But that assumes Walrus is in fact mafia. If it's only a POSSIBILITY that he is mafia - which it is, and which is what EFHW said in her post - then I don't see at all how we can leap from "maybe Walrus is a mafia psychologist" to "there is 1 scumteam, 1 SK, and 1 vig."
So the idea of a mafia psychologist isn't insane. If we treat that as a real possibility, I think we'd be led to conclude that if we have 1 scumteam then there is an SK and a vig.I'm pretty sure that's what EFHW is saying... If he is scum, then we would most likely have a vig and an SK. So I see that as validating that it is possible for Walrus' claim to both be true and come from scum. For now, all we know is there are 2 factions that can night kill, which does not rule out Walrus being scum. Correct me if I'm wrong EFHW, but that's what I thought she was saying.
I still don't get why chairs didn't choose someone whose show was known to investigate. There were good candidates from each - liopoil from Modern Family, and others from Community that I won't name at the moment.
chairs, what types of results can you receive upon investigation? For example, "mafia" vs. "not mafia?" Or "town" vs. "not town?" Or something else?
But Eevee: Why did you claim?I figured it would help me win more often. It really is the correct play for everyone to leave me alive, even if I do my best to help town any way (that doesn't include sacrificing myself) I can.
I still don't get why chairs didn't choose someone whose show was known to investigate. There were good candidates from each - liopoil from Modern Family, and others from Community that I won't name at the moment.
EFHW, please name these "good candidates" now.
@EFHW:
EFHW's vote on Walrus makes no sense to me. You think that Walrus is telling the truth about his role, but that he's still on the scum team? Why would he claim in that situation? His comment (461) does look like he's defending shraeye, and that's reasonable grounds for suspicion, but I don't see why he would claim at this point in the game were he scum. It does seem beneficial for scum to seek out his lynch though (especially if there's a big team and only one of them can do a kill each night) which makes me suspicious of EFHW. Actually sure, I'd vote for EFHW. vote: EFHW. (I am still willing to vote for Eevee.)
But Eevee: Why did you claim?I figured it would help me win more often. It really is the correct play for everyone to leave me alive, even if I do my best to help town any way (that doesn't include sacrificing myself) I can.
Voltaire, please explain how you knew ahoppy's show.
Well, for a VT it's a good thing if you get shot at night - it means someone more valuable didn't. I just lose if I get shot, so obviously I'm forced to avoid that. I know it's anti-town, but you know, it's the only anti-town thing I have to do. I got to play for the wincon I was given, but I plan on doing my best to win with town.But Eevee: Why did you claim?I figured it would help me win more often. It really is the correct play for everyone to leave me alive, even if I do my best to help town any way (that doesn't include sacrificing myself) I can.
But how is it any different from claiming VT, then, in terms of us wanting to keep you around?
Galz, here is the problem I have with Robz's argument on Voltaire.
The gist of Robz's argument is, I gather: "Voltaire is talking about multiple scumteams, or a 5-man scumteam, which all makes sense for him being SK, along with his excessive sheeping of the IC, and he probably killed shraeye, and he is therefore obviously SK and we should lynch him."
But why isn't Robz's fixation on finding the SK any less suspicious than Voltaire's comments about there being multiple scumteams?
I ask you, Galz, because (1) you have a QT with Robz and (2) you pointed out, as mod in LOTR 2, that a huge scumtell is scum's wanting to hunt for alternative scum teams. And I completely agree. And I get that aspect of the argument against Voltaire. But, from where I sit, it applies with equal force to Robz as well. And that makes me nervous, and I value your opinion on whether I should be nervous (and if not, why not).
Plot is thickening! I personally think you should use your best judgement, not defer to Voltgloss.Voltaire, please explain how you knew ahoppy's show.
It was in my PM. Do you want the full-claim?
Since everyone keeps repeating it: What is the meter you are using that determines me as a less useful player this far?
So you think your claim will reduce the chance of being nk'd? Is that because scum might hope that if it came down to it you would still choose them? You increase your chance of being nk'd by saying you are with us (though decrease your chance of being lynched). You weren't close to being lynched at all, so you must think the mafia/SK if any would make you a low kill priority as a survivor.Well, for a VT it's a good thing if you get shot at night - it means someone more valuable didn't. I just lose if I get shot, so obviously I'm forced to avoid that. I know it's anti-town, but you know, it's the only anti-town thing I have to do. I got to play for the wincon I was given, but I plan on doing my best to win with town.But Eevee: Why did you claim?I figured it would help me win more often. It really is the correct play for everyone to leave me alive, even if I do my best to help town any way (that doesn't include sacrificing myself) I can.
But how is it any different from claiming VT, then, in terms of us wanting to keep you around?
If we knew someone was a serial killer, I think we for sure would want to lynch him. We want the kills that happen to be controlled by town.
Robz, to be it's problematic that you decided that Voltaire (and to an extent myself) is scum, and are now using all the additional evidence to support that. Like, you are coming from the assumption he is scum, and when you deduce he likely isn't mafia, you just decide "well then he is a SK" instead of starting to question the original scum read. And the same with me, originally you suspected me of being Voltaire's scumbuddy, now you've abandoned thinking Voltaire is mafia, but still think I'm scum (even though the original suspicion was only by extension and that connection doesn't exist).
If we knew someone was a serial killer, I think we for sure would want to lynch him. We want the kills that happen to be controlled by town.
Robz, to be it's problematic that you decided that Voltaire (and to an extent myself) is scum, and are now using all the additional evidence to support that. Like, you are coming from the assumption he is scum, and when you deduce he likely isn't mafia, you just decide "well then he is a SK" instead of starting to question the original scum read. And the same with me, originally you suspected me of being Voltaire's scumbuddy, now you've abandoned thinking Voltaire is mafia, but still think I'm scum (even though the original suspicion was only by extension and that connection doesn't exist).
It's very frustrating that having an IRL reason for not being there for the deadline is a basis for your wrong read. Like, okay, first of all, the deadline was around 4am in my time, I think it's unreasonable to expect me to be there. This time I was awake, I think I was on until DL-2 hours or so (and planning to stay up). What happened was a good friend called me crying and majorly upset. I obviously didn't know what it was about when answering the phone, and wound up comforting her so long that when I got back to my computer I had just missed the deadline (as you can see from my posting activity).Since everyone keeps repeating it: What is the meter you are using that determines me as a less useful player this far?
Well, unfortunately you not contributing at the end of Day 1 was the big thing. I know that's just one thing, but it was very, very major. Most people showed up. Some couldn't stay until the very end, but at least made comments like, "I have to go, last chance for me to move my vote!"
Really there are just a few people who weren't there, and you are one of them. Shraeye is another, and he is dead guilty scum.
Additionally, you just didn't say very much of consequence until recently, I think, when you really started taking heat.
If we knew someone was a serial killer, I think we for sure would want to lynch him. We want the kills that happen to be controlled by town.
Robz, to be it's problematic that you decided that Voltaire (and to an extent myself) is scum, and are now using all the additional evidence to support that. Like, you are coming from the assumption he is scum, and when you deduce he likely isn't mafia, you just decide "well then he is a SK" instead of starting to question the original scum read. And the same with me, originally you suspected me of being Voltaire's scumbuddy, now you've abandoned thinking Voltaire is mafia, but still think I'm scum (even though the original suspicion was only by extension and that connection doesn't exist).
I think Eevee does have a point. That is what happened in Pirates.
PPE: Robz can you remind us of the three posts, or point us to where you talk about them?
Yes, I absolutely think that. I have no powers that could hurt them, every single player would be a better kill than me. Also having me alive is better for scum compared to a townie, in a 2-2-1 situation they could fullclaim and force me to vote with them.So you think your claim will reduce the chance of being nk'd? Is that because scum might hope that if it came down to it you would still choose them? You increase your chance of being nk'd by saying you are with us (though decrease your chance of being lynched). You weren't close to being lynched at all, so you must think the mafia/SK if any would make you a low kill priority as a survivor.Well, for a VT it's a good thing if you get shot at night - it means someone more valuable didn't. I just lose if I get shot, so obviously I'm forced to avoid that. I know it's anti-town, but you know, it's the only anti-town thing I have to do. I got to play for the wincon I was given, but I plan on doing my best to win with town.But Eevee: Why did you claim?I figured it would help me win more often. It really is the correct play for everyone to leave me alive, even if I do my best to help town any way (that doesn't include sacrificing myself) I can.
But how is it any different from claiming VT, then, in terms of us wanting to keep you around?
Also, have you often been an N1 nk? I can't think of a time off-hand.I think I've been night killed more than anyone else according to yuma's rankings, but, well, I've also played more games than almost anyone. Being the night kill out of a 20 player pool after not seeming super towny or hinting at any power roles didn't feel like a huge concern though.
Yes, I absolutely think that. I have no powers that could hurt them, every single player would be a better kill than me. Also having me alive is better for scum compared to a townie, in a 2-2-1 situation they could fullclaim and force me to vote with them.So you think your claim will reduce the chance of being nk'd? Is that because scum might hope that if it came down to it you would still choose them? You increase your chance of being nk'd by saying you are with us (though decrease your chance of being lynched). You weren't close to being lynched at all, so you must think the mafia/SK if any would make you a low kill priority as a survivor.Well, for a VT it's a good thing if you get shot at night - it means someone more valuable didn't. I just lose if I get shot, so obviously I'm forced to avoid that. I know it's anti-town, but you know, it's the only anti-town thing I have to do. I got to play for the wincon I was given, but I plan on doing my best to win with town.But Eevee: Why did you claim?I figured it would help me win more often. It really is the correct play for everyone to leave me alive, even if I do my best to help town any way (that doesn't include sacrificing myself) I can.
But how is it any different from claiming VT, then, in terms of us wanting to keep you around?
I'm truly surprised you think you can pick the serial killer (we may or may not have!) from a 20 person pool day 2. To me, there definitely is some merit to your case. If we were playing "guess who the SK is", my guess would be Voltaire. We are not, however. Like Voltgloss said, we have evidence of there being a mafia team and the luxury of having a mafia flip already. I think we should aim to kill someone from shraeye's team. We know it exists, and we have like 4-5 targets there, instead of the single serial killer that may not even exist.If we knew someone was a serial killer, I think we for sure would want to lynch him. We want the kills that happen to be controlled by town.
Robz, to be it's problematic that you decided that Voltaire (and to an extent myself) is scum, and are now using all the additional evidence to support that. Like, you are coming from the assumption he is scum, and when you deduce he likely isn't mafia, you just decide "well then he is a SK" instead of starting to question the original scum read. And the same with me, originally you suspected me of being Voltaire's scumbuddy, now you've abandoned thinking Voltaire is mafia, but still think I'm scum (even though the original suspicion was only by extension and that connection doesn't exist).
The thing is that the additional evidence supports you and Voltaire being scum more than the initial evidence. Eevee, if you had not claimed Survivor, I would not be looking at you as seriously. But I find that to be a really suspicious, unbelievable claim. I no longer have much evidence that you are aligned with Voltaire, so I have set that aside. I have really solid reasons to think Voltaire is a scum who killed shraeye though (and thus not mafia). Again, this read is based on three separate comments that Voltaire has made. I'm truly surprised no one else thinks it's as obvious s I do.
I'm surprised that me claiming survivor is why you suspect me so much. It doesn't seem logical to me! I (now) totally understand your point about how it's a good claim for mafia, yes. I'm not claiming to be obvtown by any means. But, you know, bayesian probability, if I drew survivor, wouldn't this be how I'd play it? My day 1 play matches it pretty well, and if I was mafia, I'd have 20 other fake claims I could think of, 20 other times I could think of making them.. sure, I could have picked this claim at this point, but.. is an unpressured "I'm not town"-claim really what you'd expect me to make as scum? I understand having concerns about me, but it's not like those can't be addressed later on as well. I make a pretty good target for town roleblockers or trackers if we have some, and my playstyle is such that I create interactions all the time. I'm convinced the suspects I've listed, Ahoppy, mail-mi, Archetype, sudgy and Dsell are all vastly preferable lynches for town.If we knew someone was a serial killer, I think we for sure would want to lynch him. We want the kills that happen to be controlled by town.
Robz, to be it's problematic that you decided that Voltaire (and to an extent myself) is scum, and are now using all the additional evidence to support that. Like, you are coming from the assumption he is scum, and when you deduce he likely isn't mafia, you just decide "well then he is a SK" instead of starting to question the original scum read. And the same with me, originally you suspected me of being Voltaire's scumbuddy, now you've abandoned thinking Voltaire is mafia, but still think I'm scum (even though the original suspicion was only by extension and that connection doesn't exist).
The thing is that the additional evidence supports you and Voltaire being scum more than the initial evidence. Eevee, if you had not claimed Survivor, I would not be looking at you as seriously. But I find that to be a really suspicious, unbelievable claim. I no longer have much evidence that you are aligned with Voltaire, so I have set that aside. I have really solid reasons to think Voltaire is a scum who killed shraeye though (and thus not mafia). Again, this read is based on three separate comments that Voltaire has made. I'm truly surprised no one else thinks it's as obvious s I do.
Voltgloss, nay. I will not move to EFHW, given my re-read of her and VOltaire's support of it.
Seriously dude, what if there's two scum teams? Stop tunneling me. I think she's scum. Even if you think I'm scum that doesn't mean you shouldn't vote for her.
Hey, I'm always right about shraeye! (because of confirmation bias, shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh) so that's cool. Unfortunately I was also right about mcmc. But that's fine.
Is Galz an IC now? Unless someone else claims Enabler, that's how I see it.
I'll need to re-read with our flips now. I actually feel really freaking good about town's chances right now.
Oh and also, whats this "I was right about shraeye!" nonsense?
Directed at Voltaire^
Wasn't I the first to be suspicious of him? And then I pointed out he scumlurked his way out of suspicion? And Galz said I was changing the subject? It feels nice to be right. Not like I was 100% sure obviously.
I agree TA feels off. Disappointed we're moving even closer to full flavor claiming again.
I'm sorry, what case? All I see is me being PoE'd by Galz. Did I miss a case being made on me?
Note that I am also POEing you. That's the case on you.
I don't want to lynch you today because shraeye came after you. Could have been an attempt to give both of you cred. But in a 5-man scum team (my assumption until something proves otherwise), not everyone on the team will have bussed everyone.
It's not ironclad. It's pretty strong though, I'm surprised it's getting like zero support.It's because we want to hunt for mafia today! As I said, your theory makes sense, but lynching someone who actually seems very unlikely to be mafia at this stage is not appealing at all. It's a good theory as far as day 2 SK theories in huge games go, and we should keep it in mind, try to see how the situation develops. Lynching Voltaire is not the pro-town reaction to it though. It's nowhere near that good.
It's not ironclad. It's pretty strong though, I'm surprised it's getting like zero support.It's because we want to hunt for mafia today! As I said, your theory makes sense, but lynching someone who actually seems very unlikely to be mafia at this stage is not appealing at all. It's a good theory as far as day 2 SK theories in huge games go, and we should keep it in mind, try to see how the situation develops. Lynching Voltaire is not the pro-town reaction to it though. It's nowhere near that good.
The evidence against Voltaire, based on his own statements, given here for the final time, because I'm sick of saying it.
No, as I already said, if we knew he was the SK, I would absolutely want to lynch him. I think you are grossly overestimating how likely that is, though. I think we'd need to be 50%+ sure. I don't think we can be more than 20-30%, and even that's quite impressive for a day 2 sk theory in a 20 player game.It's not ironclad. It's pretty strong though, I'm surprised it's getting like zero support.It's because we want to hunt for mafia today! As I said, your theory makes sense, but lynching someone who actually seems very unlikely to be mafia at this stage is not appealing at all. It's a good theory as far as day 2 SK theories in huge games go, and we should keep it in mind, try to see how the situation develops. Lynching Voltaire is not the pro-town reaction to it though. It's nowhere near that good.
Okay well, "Yes Voltaire is the SK but we don't want to kill him," is a fundamentally different counter-argument, and that's fine. I disagree with it. I think we want to limit the number of shots being taken at our multiple cops.
I still don't get why chairs didn't choose someone whose show was known to investigate. There were good candidates from each - liopoil from Modern Family, and others from Community that I won't name at the moment.
EFHW, please name these "good candidates" now.
walrus and sudgy had both revealed their show flavor as Community early on.
I still don't get why chairs didn't choose someone whose show was known to investigate. There were good candidates from each - liopoil from Modern Family, and others from Community that I won't name at the moment.
EFHW, please name these "good candidates" now.
walrus and sudgy had both revealed their show flavor as Community early on.
Yes, I agree.
Chairs, why didn't you investigate walrus or sudgy?
Voltaire, please explain how you knew ahoppy's show.
It was in my PM. Do you want the full-claim?
As we wait for the chairs/showclaim situation to sort itself out, I want to move forward with our best plan of action: finding shraeye's partner(s).
Voltaire, please explain how you knew ahoppy's show.
It was in my PM. Do you want the full-claim?
I want you to make your own decision without knowing whether I approve of it or not.
This is impossible task for him.
This is impossible task for him.
Dude.
This is impossible task for him.
Dude.
Well, you need to talk it over with Ahoppy in your Two-man-team/SK and junior SK/whatever scum thing you are before you decide how to handle, it right?
This is an impossible task for him.This is impossible task for him.
Dude.
Well, you need to talk it over with Ahoppy in your Two-man-team/SK and junior SK/whatever scum thing you are before you decide how to handle, it right?
Can I ask you something? Have you ever asked yourself, "What if Voltaire is town? What is he doing?"
Man, I could be wrong about so much stuff. Who was it who said hardcore tunnel Robz struck them as a more townie trait? Can anyone else comment on this?I did. I was referencing WWTWDP when robz was hard-core tunneling yuma. He does it in other games too, most of the time as town.
This is impossible task for him.
Dude.
Well, you need to talk it over with Ahoppy in your Two-man-team/SK and junior SK/whatever scum thing you are before you decide how to handle, it right?
Can I ask you something? Have you ever asked yourself, "What if Voltaire is town? What is he doing?"
Voltaire, please explain how you knew ahoppy's show.
It was in my PM. Do you want the full-claim?
I want you to make your own decision without knowing whether I approve of it or not.
Can I ask you something? Why is your read on me at all times pure OMGUS--based solely on how hard I am pushing for your lynch?
I also want to put Robz back into the pool. He is tunneling me and hunting the SK. The only other person he's willing to lynch is the claimed Survivor. Again, I think this is more likely to be the scum stance (at least before myself or Eevee or Voltgloss or whoever it was first said that in-thread). Despite scum reads on Robz, I'd been leaving him out of the pool based on Galz's support of Robz. Now that I know why, I don't see any reason to removed him from the pool on principle. Scum neighborizer would be an amazing PR. Let's also not forget how the scum in Newbie 4 (if that was its number?) fooled all the vets in the speccy.
Can I ask you something? Why is your read on me at all times pure OMGUS--based solely on how hard I am pushing for your lynch?
It's like you don't even read my posts, or something. One sentence on you pushing me. The rest on other reasons you're scummy.I also want to put Robz back into the pool. He is tunneling me and hunting the SK. The only other person he's willing to lynch is the claimed Survivor. Again, I think this is more likely to be the scum stance (at least before myself or Eevee or Voltgloss or whoever it was first said that in-thread). Despite scum reads on Robz, I'd been leaving him out of the pool based on Galz's support of Robz. Now that I know why, I don't see any reason to removed him from the pool on principle. Scum neighborizer would be an amazing PR. Let's also not forget how the scum in Newbie 4 (if that was its number?) fooled all the vets in the speccy.
Voltaire, please explain how you knew ahoppy's show.
It was in my PM. Do you want the full-claim?
I want you to make your own decision without knowing whether I approve of it or not.
I've been debating this ever since the start of the game, and heavily all day today. I think, at this point, I should claim a bit more.
AHoppy and I are Best Friends (it's a Mason variant). We were informed that we are each town at the start of the game. We do not have any sort of chat. We may or may not have additional role(s).
So this has made things quite tricky. We can't coordinate "knowing" each other's alignments in any way, or accommodate for this/match it with our playstyles, or even discuss when/if to claim. AHoppy has clearly taken a different course than me with this, and that's fine.
This obviously explains where my read on AHoppy has come from all game. I thought Galz had figured this out, but then he fell back into thinking I am scum. I tried to telegraph this fact when I was found scummy for not listing reasons for my reads on D2. I intentionally used the vague reasoning about AHoppy I'd used D1, even when I expanded on my other reads. I was hoping people would see this, think "Well that's a bit obvious if it's his scum partner! I wonder what's going on..." Unfortunately, in this game confirmation bias is widespread (and I don't claim to be immune).
This also explains my actions at the end of D1, because Galz was RIGHT about AHoppy! He totally was a better fit for the scum we were looking for than EFHW! Unfortunately, AHoppy wasn't around at that point, and I simply could not let one of us be lynched without a chance to claim.
Because that's the beauty of being Best Friends - when one of us flips, the other will be an honest-to-god IC (after AHoppy confirms this claim). I know you can't believe us now, but the silver lining should one of us die is that the other is an IC.
And that's why I've decided to claim this. Because if we lynch myself or AHoppy today, if scum decides to avoid creating an IC by killing the other, our other claimed PRs are still living. If they decide to take out one of the PRs, we have an IC the next day!
When the game started, I thought over when to claim this and decided it made the most sense to wait to do until one of us came under heavy suspicion. That's not quite the case here, as I don't honestly think I'll be lynched today. But the more time passes, the higher the odds one of us dies at night, and our Best Friends power will go to waste. (and the more likely mafia leave us alive to be mislynched down the line, when there's less time and our claim is less believable)
AHoppy, sorry if you don't think this is the right time.
Yes, fine, whatever, those are reasons, but I move on and off your "would-lynch" list based on how hard I am pushing you. This has been absolutely true all game.
Voltaire, please explain how you knew ahoppy's show.
It was in my PM. Do you want the full-claim?
I want you to make your own decision without knowing whether I approve of it or not.
I've been debating this ever since the start of the game, and heavily all day today. I think, at this point, I should claim a bit more.
AHoppy and I are Best Friends (it's a Mason variant). We were informed that we are each town at the start of the game. We do not have any sort of chat. We may or may not have additional role(s).
So this has made things quite tricky. We can't coordinate "knowing" each other's alignments in any way, or accommodate for this/match it with our playstyles, or even discuss when/if to claim. AHoppy has clearly taken a different course than me with this, and that's fine.
This obviously explains where my read on AHoppy has come from all game. I thought Galz had figured this out, but then he fell back into thinking I am scum. I tried to telegraph this fact when I was found scummy for not listing reasons for my reads on D2. I intentionally used the vague reasoning about AHoppy I'd used D1, even when I expanded on my other reads. I was hoping people would see this, think "Well that's a bit obvious if it's his scum partner! I wonder what's going on..." Unfortunately, in this game confirmation bias is widespread (and I don't claim to be immune).
This also explains my actions at the end of D1, because Galz was RIGHT about AHoppy! He totally was a better fit for the scum we were looking for than EFHW! Unfortunately, AHoppy wasn't around at that point, and I simply could not let one of us be lynched without a chance to claim.
Because that's the beauty of being Best Friends - when one of us flips, the other will be an honest-to-god IC (after AHoppy confirms this claim). I know you can't believe us now, but the silver lining should one of us die is that the other is an IC.
And that's why I've decided to claim this. Because if we lynch myself or AHoppy today, if scum decides to avoid creating an IC by killing the other, our other claimed PRs are still living. If they decide to take out one of the PRs, we have an IC the next day!
When the game started, I thought over when to claim this and decided it made the most sense to wait to do until one of us came under heavy suspicion. That's not quite the case here, as I don't honestly think I'll be lynched today. But the more time passes, the higher the odds one of us dies at night, and our Best Friends power will go to waste. (and the more likely mafia leave us alive to be mislynched down the line, when there's less time and our claim is less believable)
AHoppy, sorry if you don't think this is the right time.
Yes, Galz has been expecting this claim for a long time. He's really quite good at picking up things like that.
You are confirmed town to each other? You didn't make that clear.
You are confirmed town to each other? You didn't make that clear.
Robz prides himself in changing it up all the time. There was a time I felt stubborn unreasonable Robz was town, and the easy to work with Robz was scum, but he is aware of that and I'm sure has adjusted accordingly.Yes, fine, whatever, those are reasons, but I move on and off your "would-lynch" list based on how hard I am pushing you. This has been absolutely true all game.
Yes, I have to agree with you there. mail-mi's point that you tunnel more as town, if it can be confirmed by others, is the strongest reason I might chalk this all up as stubborn town-v-town.
....
So, Option 2 or Option 1. For Option 2 to have happened, someone ignored my oft-repeated insistence never to shoot night 1 as Vig. I wouldn't be surprised if someone did that but I would be surprised if Voltaire did that, because he's a fairly competent player. And I think Voltaire very likely to have killed shraeye for the reasons he himself pointed out.
....
Then there's an even less of a down-side to lynching one of them. If Voltaire is being truthful, lynching him creates an IC.
Then there's an even less of a down-side to lynching one of them. If Voltaire is being truthful, lynching him creates an IC.
I'd rather lynch scum, myself.
Seriously.
Can someone please give me a single reason why they cannot be a a 2-person scum team thing, like an improved version of what Frisk and Munch were in Mafia XI?
Seriously.It's possible. Many things are! You have a severe case of tunnel vision, it's not as likely and pursuing the idea isn't the best way for town to win.
Can someone please give me a single reason why they cannot be a a 2-person scum team thing, like an improved version of what Frisk and Munch were in Mafia XI?
Seriously.
Can someone please give me a single reason why they cannot be a a 2-person scum team thing, like an improved version of what Frisk and Munch were in Mafia XI?
No, there totally could be! But if there is, it's not me and AHoppy. And since I know it's not the two of us, there is 0 evidence for it (I know other people will have a different opinion since except for AHoppy, none of you are myself or AHoppy).
Robz, if you think we're scum write it down. And join us in finding shraeye's partners. If you're town, this should still make sense to you.
Pope: robz, I don't understand why so angry?
sudgy voted shraeye 3 times, chairs 2 times, Voltaire, mail-mi,TAwalrus and faust each voted for him 1 time.
Galz, I see your post, give me a bit to respond
Voltgloss, I'd also like you to consider a massclaim.
Because at this point we have at least 2/3 of the town claimed. It'll also help us to weed out any inconsistencies.Voltgloss, I'd also like you to consider a massclaim.
Why?
Because at this point we have at least 2/3 of the town claimed. It'll also help us to weed out any inconsistencies.Voltgloss, I'd also like you to consider a massclaim.
Why?
Arch, I have to think more about your request and have taken it under advisement.
sudgy voted shraeye 3 times, chairs 2 times, Voltaire, mail-mi,TAwalrus and faust each voted for him 1 time.
sudgy voted shraeye 3 times, chairs 2 times, Voltaire, mail-mi,TAwalrus and faust each voted for him 1 time.
Who did shraeye vote? Apologies if this is already summarized somewhere.
I don't have time right now, but later I want to check for when was the first time Robz and/or Galz (and/or anyone else) accused Voltaire of being scum based on him sheeping me. I'm posting this now so I don't forget to do this.
I don't have time right now, but later I want to check for when was the first time Robz and/or Galz (and/or anyone else) accused Voltaire of being scum based on him sheeping me. I'm posting this now so I don't forget to do this.
In my reread, I saw shraeye did (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9308.msg294676#msg294676). Looking around there I don't see anyone else saying int.
I don't have time right now, but later I want to check for when was the first time Robz and/or Galz (and/or anyone else) accused Voltaire of being scum based on him sheeping me. I'm posting this now so I don't forget to do this.
In my reread, I saw shraeye did (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9308.msg294676#msg294676). Looking around there I don't see anyone else saying int.
I don't have time right now, but later I want to check for when was the first time Robz and/or Galz (and/or anyone else) accused Voltaire of being scum based on him sheeping me. I'm posting this now so I don't forget to do this.
In my reread, I saw shraeye did (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9308.msg294676#msg294676). Looking around there I don't see anyone else saying int.
I'd forgotten that. That was right after the first time I told Voltaire to not wait for me to "steer" things.
Did anyone make that argument against Voltaire before my "nobody hold back waiting for me to steer them" post?
I agree with Voltgloss. He should not steer things. An IC steering thing takes away decisions from players, and decisions are how we analyze who's scum. Saying "tell me who I should consider voting for!" not only lowers the odds but also causes scum players to disguise their votes more easily.His second time suggesting that people just wait for Voltgloss to steer us. It's a perfect cover for scum who aren't sure which direction to go and want some built-in excuses for whatever way they go. Suggestions like these make me surer of my vote on Voltaire. I think other people need to give him a serious look.
Hey guys, scum made this argument against me. FtotheYI.
Shraeye famously doesn't give reads lists, which makes this tricky. But there was this postI'd be super cool with voting Voltaire, liopoil, Twisted, faust. FoS on Walrus and sudgy. Other people I've probably mentioned along the way.
Chairs, why didn't you investigate walrus or sudgy?
Galz, you are online. Talk to us. Why is Robz so angry?
Because people seem to write off potential scummates WAY too easily. Insomniac was known for straight bussing as scum. He would push and push and push his scummates D1. If he died, they looked less suspicious. And if they died, he could claim good reads. "My scumread turned up scum", especially in a game this size, is NOT an indicator of towniness. At all. (I'm guilty of acting like it is, so, you know).
Ah, Galz is posting here. Looking forward to that.
Because people seem to write off potential scummates WAY too easily. Insomniac was known for straight bussing as scum. He would push and push and push his scummates D1. If he died, they looked less suspicious. And if they died, he could claim good reads. "My scumread turned up scum", especially in a game this size, is NOT an indicator of towniness. At all. (I'm guilty of acting like it is, so, you know).
How is this relevant to Robz's argument? He's been arguing that Voltaire is some breed of scum other than shraeye. Has he now switched in the QT to arguing that they were scumpartners bussing each other?
Galz just logged off, but last activity was 17 minutes ago. So could have just been left in a phone browser window or something.
Galz, is my #2188 wrong? If so, help me understand why.
I believe Voltaire 100%. And if it's a scum gambit, we can lynch if they survive to the endgame.This. I had slight suspicions of Voltaire before, but now I'm pretty sure he isn't scum. And I support mass claim.
Voltgloss, I'd also like you to consider a massclaim.
12. EFHW: Towny. Contributes enough, I think.
Alright, I've finished the rereading I need to do, now I need to summarize everything, then I can make the post.
Basically.12. EFHW: Towny. Contributes enough, I think.
Is this all you have to say about EFHW?
chairs is online and reading the thread.Chairs, why didn't you investigate walrus or sudgy?
chairs is online and reading the thread.Chairs, why didn't you investigate walrus or sudgy?
thought galz was suspicious for the Enabler claim, and didn't realize others had show claimed.
chairs is online and reading the thread.Chairs, why didn't you investigate walrus or sudgy?
thought galz was suspicious for the Enabler claim, and didn't realize others had show claimed.
You were more suspicious of Galz than anyone else?
Yeah, chairs voted for Galz in his first post that came after Galz's claim. Voltgloss, why do you think chair's actions make him scum?
Have you done a full reread?
Sorry, real life happened. So, it will be a bit longer. It's almost done though...
Sorry, real life happened. So, it will be a bit longer. It's almost done though...
It's gotta be hella outdated at this point...
Chairs, why didn't you investigate walrus or sudgy?
thought galz was suspicious for the Enabler claim, and didn't realize others had show claimed.
In general, I would like to see more commentary on:
mail-mi
chairs
Twistedarcher
sudgy
Archetype
Dsell
faust
Don't read anything into the order these players are listed. The above is just the order in which those players appear in the intro post.
Also, is it possible that scum have been given fakeclaims? Isn't that something that can be done? Or would we have to know that upfront?
sudgy, how did shraeye respond to votes placed on him?
Chairs, why didn't you investigate walrus or sudgy?
thought galz was suspicious for the Enabler claim, and didn't realize others had show claimed.
It was stated in thread that their shows were easily inferred from their comments, especially after the L Street/Red Door voting. It seems like given your role you would have been on the alert for clues to anyone's show information.
Galz, did you tell Robz you were an Enabler, or that you had a plan, or anything like that, in your QT?
Even if you enable scum, it makes a big difference what it is you enable. I think it's unlikely yuma and ash would put a role in for which it would be optimal play to get yourself killed asap. That's just so so so unfun to play.
Robz's recent emotions read faaaaaaaaaaaaaake btw, though that obviously can never really be more than a gut thing.
Robz's recent emotions read faaaaaaaaaaaaaake btw, though that obviously can never really be more than a gut thing.
I disagree, and it's rather an unfair accusation to level. I hardly claimed that Volt's frustration seemed fake. Or yours earlier. That's a read your trying to make on him personally, to justify a "read". It has no bearing on his alignment whatsoever.
Robz's recent emotions read faaaaaaaaaaaaaake btw, though that obviously can never really be more than a gut thing.
I disagree, and it's rather an unfair accusation to level. I hardly claimed that Volt's frustration seemed fake. Or yours earlier. That's a read your trying to make on him personally, to justify a "read". It has no bearing on his alignment whatsoever.
No, it's a legitimate thing to study. I am making no claims of accuracy for myself. Because scum uses this as gambits sometimes, and therefore we have to examine them like everything else.
Then I think your "frustration" and "emotion" earlier was complete crap. I think you threw a little fit so that people would feel bad for you and buy into your "oh woe is me, he's typing what I was ACTUALLY saying, instead of what I was just INFERRING"...
Then I think your "frustration" and "emotion" earlier was complete crap. I think you threw a little fit so that people would feel bad for you and buy into your "oh woe is me, he's typing what I was ACTUALLY saying, instead of what I was just INFERRING"...
And I don't mind if you want to add that to your case against me - which I guess you still have post-claim? That's the important thing here.
Again, I disagree. I think it would be a crap argument to actually make or to use as weight to argue your lynch. I think it's crappy sportsmanship at it's worst.
I can't expound at the moment but I find it to be a highly plausible claim for a scumbuddy to give him. I lean towards believing him but paranoid gun owner is pretty convenient.
I've been informed that my request to replace out is denied, which decision I understand. I will keep trying to do my best for town, despite it being none too good.
I think chairs simply cannot be shraeye's partner (on this re-read). At a time when the nkirbit scumslip votes are coming fast and furious, I bring up shraeye's wagon evaporating and chairs votes for shraeye (for this second time). He moves from the nkirbit wagon (where he was) to renew a wagon on a partner? He was also the first to vote for Galz - the enabler of his partner???
Do you think we need a soft deadline today? Day ends on a sunday, that's no good. So, how about thursday at some time when AHoppy and me are actually awake?
We are six hours ahead of forum time.Do you think we need a soft deadline today? Day ends on a sunday, that's no good. So, how about thursday at some time when AHoppy and me are actually awake?
I do think that makes sense. In fact, while it wasn't feasible Day 1, I think we should try Day 2 to actually reach a majority lynch. And soft deadline is the time by which we should try to do it.
How many hours off are you and aHoppy off from forum time?
We are six hours ahead of forum time.Do you think we need a soft deadline today? Day ends on a sunday, that's no good. So, how about thursday at some time when AHoppy and me are actually awake?
I do think that makes sense. In fact, while it wasn't feasible Day 1, I think we should try Day 2 to actually reach a majority lynch. And soft deadline is the time by which we should try to do it.
How many hours off are you and aHoppy off from forum time?
Yeah. Actually, don't take me into account. Thursday is a national holiday here, so I'm not sure whether I'll be around anyway.We are six hours ahead of forum time.Do you think we need a soft deadline today? Day ends on a sunday, that's no good. So, how about thursday at some time when AHoppy and me are actually awake?
I do think that makes sense. In fact, while it wasn't feasible Day 1, I think we should try Day 2 to actually reach a majority lynch. And soft deadline is the time by which we should try to do it.
How many hours off are you and aHoppy off from forum time?
Hm. That's fairly awkward. You two will be going to bed when forum timezoners will be getting out of work, and won't be awake by when forum timezoners will most likely be going to sleep.
I don't understand what's causing all this frustration. :( People do read your contributions and appreciate them, it's only natural there are often disagreements about the conclusions. It's sad if you find this game unfun, but, you know, I don't think anyone is deliberately making it unfun for others.. Selfvoting and wanting out seems like a poor way to resolve it, what is it about the game that makes it unenjoyable for you, could that maybe be fixed somehow? We all just want to have fun.This. Come on guys, we don't want this to develop into NMIII.
I was excited to be back at f:dS, but I guess that was the worst thing that could have happened for f:dS.No! Don't leave cuz galz is mad at you! I want to play with you, the community wants you to stay! This is just one game. If your play hasn't been good, so wut? My play is not nearly the best playstyle, I'll admit it. If you don't think your doing good, do better next time.
Request to replace out.
chairs is online and reading the thread.Chairs, why didn't you investigate walrus or sudgy?
thought galz was suspicious for the Enabler claim, and didn't realize others had show claimed.
You were more suspicious of Galz than anyone else?
Turns out faust is actually the first person to point out shraeye might try lurking out of suspicion, even before I brought it up later. I didn't notice it at the time. It's in 385.
Turns out faust is actually the first person to point out shraeye might try lurking out of suspicion, even before I brought it up later. I didn't notice it at the time. It's in 385.
I cannot remember much faust has done to be honest. His seemingly small shadow and the fact that he pointed out shraeye's lurking make me suspicious of him a bit. Lurking in particular can be a way to bus without pushing someone too hard because you're also sending a coded message to your team mate ("hey you're lurking, get in here before you get lynched"). I will make a closer read of faust at some point soon.
I sorta agree that shraeye's posts seem a little scummy. Sadly, in all my newbishness, I can't compare to his usual playstyle (well, I could read through some other games, but I won't do that until it's important).
On the other hand, Voltaire answering to every single one of Walrus' points does seem a bit over the top.
Vote: Voltaire for now.
Turns out faust is actually the first person to point out shraeye might try lurking out of suspicion, even before I brought it up later. I didn't notice it at the time. It's in 385.
I cannot remember much faust has done to be honest. His seemingly small shadow and the fact that he pointed out shraeye's lurking make me suspicious of him a bit. Lurking in particular can be a way to bus without pushing someone too hard because you're also sending a coded message to your team mate ("hey you're lurking, get in here before you get lynched"). I will make a closer read of faust at some point soon.
206 (below) also struck me as potentially scum covering for a teammate. And sure enough, eventually faust lands on shraeye = townie and don't-lynch-Galz. That's not incriminating in and off itself, but I think the process is suspicious.I sorta agree that shraeye's posts seem a little scummy. Sadly, in all my newbishness, I can't compare to his usual playstyle (well, I could read through some other games, but I won't do that until it's important).
On the other hand, Voltaire answering to every single one of Walrus' points does seem a bit over the top.
Vote: Voltaire for now.
If Robz and Galz are town, and they are now refusing to post, we will lose.
If Robz and Galz are scum, then they are taking emotional manipulation to a level at which I don't want to play. (Note: I do not actually think it likely that they are scum or that they doing this intentionally.)
I'm sorry, Town. My terrible play has driven away the players we would need to win (or, far less likely, pushed scum to a level of behavior that makes the game no fun).
I was excited to be back at f:dS, but I guess that was the worst thing that could have happened for f:dS.
Request to replace out.
I reread Archetype's posts, but it hasn't helped me much. There is some scumhunting, some other discussion, nothing that really stands out. Again, my first game on this site featured a lurky Archetype getting mislynched D1. If I were voting for him now, tht would be solely based on lurking, and I don't want to do that.
It already really late here, and I need to get some sleep. As much as I'd like to stick around until the deadline, it won't be possible. So consider my vote final, I'm out of here.
Was it ever cleared what exactly it is Galzria enabled for shraeye? His ability to kill, his ability to be a ninja, something else?
The thing is, I don't see keeping Galzria alive as a very big concern for scum. Assuming he is town, surely a vig shooting him would have been great for scum?Was it ever cleared what exactly it is Galzria enabled for shraeye? His ability to kill, his ability to be a ninja, something else?
No, and I don't think it ever really can be, short of one of his partners telling us, or Galz actually knowing and having had a reason not to tell us, and changing his mind.
What's the benefit, chairs? Will you be able to confirm yourself as town? Others as town?
I will be able to verify some Town members. Show claiming is a requirement to enable this.
(My secondary wincon requires flavor claiming your characters, and as such I am not going to worry about it).
Oh, and: invite Dede
What's the benefit, chairs? Will you be able to confirm yourself as town? Others as town?
I will be able to verify some Town members. Show claiming is a requirement to enable this.
(My secondary wincon requires flavor claiming your characters, and as such I am not going to worry about it).
Oh, and: invite Dede
chairs, what did you mean by the bold?
Unrelatedly, small things for no apparent gain like TA's "there is something in my role pm that makes me think liopoiljorbles is towny" always give me a town read.
My frustration is not with you.
What are people thinking now about liopoil/Jorbles? There was a big movement to lynch liopoil. Where did it go?
I still absolutely believe he is town.
Ok, I'm not saying I disagree, but can you elaborate as to why?
I think lio was very towny yesterday. I also have a bit more role related info that makes me really think he's town (not confirmed but it makes a lot more sense for him to be town than scum)
Ppe: boo
You were more suspicious of Galz than anyone else?
You were more suspicious of Galz than anyone else?
I'd never heard of any game actually using an Enabler before, and his WIFOM attempts made him feel particularly scummy to me.
Those are two positions that someone on a team with shraeye would take.Hm. So what are positions that someone on a team with shraeye wouldn't take?
Low post counts can be accounted for to some degree by time zone differences, but low post counts can also be new scum players who don't feel comfortable posting a lot afraid they might make a slip. This beginning of a case is... more compelling than what I thought made EFHW suspicious. vote: faust.
Do you mean to say this is scummy? Why?I reread Archetype's posts, but it hasn't helped me much. There is some scumhunting, some other discussion, nothing that really stands out. Again, my first game on this site featured a lurky Archetype getting mislynched D1. If I were voting for him now, tht would be solely based on lurking, and I don't want to do that.
It already really late here, and I need to get some sleep. As much as I'd like to stick around until the deadline, it won't be possible. So consider my vote final, I'm out of here.
Faust leaves with his vote on lio, after expressing a "meh" on Archetype.
Do you mean to say this is scummy? Why?I reread Archetype's posts, but it hasn't helped me much. There is some scumhunting, some other discussion, nothing that really stands out. Again, my first game on this site featured a lurky Archetype getting mislynched D1. If I were voting for him now, tht would be solely based on lurking, and I don't want to do that.
It already really late here, and I need to get some sleep. As much as I'd like to stick around until the deadline, it won't be possible. So consider my vote final, I'm out of here.
Faust leaves with his vote on lio, after expressing a "meh" on Archetype.
Do you mean to say this is scummy? Why?I reread Archetype's posts, but it hasn't helped me much. There is some scumhunting, some other discussion, nothing that really stands out. Again, my first game on this site featured a lurky Archetype getting mislynched D1. If I were voting for him now, tht would be solely based on lurking, and I don't want to do that.
It already really late here, and I need to get some sleep. As much as I'd like to stick around until the deadline, it won't be possible. So consider my vote final, I'm out of here.
Faust leaves with his vote on lio, after expressing a "meh" on Archetype.
Yes, because we have another scum player (shraeye) who also left with a vote parked on lio.
The thing is, I don't see keeping Galzria alive as a very big concern for scum. Assuming he is town, surely a vig shooting him would have been great for scum?Was it ever cleared what exactly it is Galzria enabled for shraeye? His ability to kill, his ability to be a ninja, something else?
No, and I don't think it ever really can be, short of one of his partners telling us, or Galz actually knowing and having had a reason not to tell us, and changing his mind.
Doesn't really say much when we know the alternate lynch was a townie, does it? But alright, I guess I'll wait for your big post. I might however not be able to respond before tomorrow.Do you mean to say this is scummy? Why?I reread Archetype's posts, but it hasn't helped me much. There is some scumhunting, some other discussion, nothing that really stands out. Again, my first game on this site featured a lurky Archetype getting mislynched D1. If I were voting for him now, tht would be solely based on lurking, and I don't want to do that.
It already really late here, and I need to get some sleep. As much as I'd like to stick around until the deadline, it won't be possible. So consider my vote final, I'm out of here.
Faust leaves with his vote on lio, after expressing a "meh" on Archetype.
Yes, because we have another scum player (shraeye) who also left with a vote parked on lio.
"a", not "another". I am currently writing my big post and talking about scenarios where you are scum, so I was in the "assume it" frame of mind.
That's exactly what I'm saying, yeah.The thing is, I don't see keeping Galzria alive as a very big concern for scum. Assuming he is town, surely a vig shooting him would have been great for scum?Was it ever cleared what exactly it is Galzria enabled for shraeye? His ability to kill, his ability to be a ninja, something else?
No, and I don't think it ever really can be, short of one of his partners telling us, or Galz actually knowing and having had a reason not to tell us, and changing his mind.
I'd assume Galz enabled shraeye's special power: the ninja ability. There's little detriment to scum, and little point to Galz being Enabler, if what he enabled was shraeye's ability to nightkill (as any other scum could do that).
Eevee, are you saying scum would be fine with a vig shooting Galz at night despite their losing shraeye's ninja capability as a result?
PPE: 4
To clarify, I'm not saying they'd be fine with it, I'm saying they'd be pretty damn happy about it.
Still disagree!To clarify, I'm not saying they'd be fine with it, I'm saying they'd be pretty damn happy about it.
Don't think I agree.
Yes, scum prefer that a vig shoots Galz rather than shoot scum. But, from scum's perspective, a vig shooting Galz is strictly worse than a vig shooting any other town player.
And in general, I would expect scum (like most people) to demonstrate "loss aversion" - to overvalue the loss of something already in their possession (like shraeye's ninja ability).
shraeye's behavior certainly suggests that he, at least, did not want Galz to be vigged.
So, yeah, sorry Eevee, but from where I sit the fact that you chimed in Day 1 with "we should not vig Galz" - when, as a Survivor, you really shouldn't care one way or the other - remains a key suspicious point against you.
I have been totally away from computer and phone most of the day and am again several pages behind. I've done a very light skim up to recent posts and ugh, so much frustration in the air. I don't know what to say because I am very frustrated too, just the size, interactions, and feeling like nkirbit was right when he said we were conned into a role madness game have made this a very different game than I was expecting. I was eager to play with a cast of players like this, but things are going sour and I like the f.ds community more than this game. So all of that, combined with my busy schedule leaving me unable to contribute as much as is fair to you guys, leaves me considering bowing out. I am going to sleep on this (I have already seriously blown my bedtime trying to catch up) and hopefully have a decision by morning. I will also try to catch up before I decide. I do not want to do this, but this game has been uniquely tough for me.
If I may (possibly unreasonable, I realize), please do not try to analyze this post for its content.
Voltaire, your "Player X could not be shraeye's partner" arguments are oversimplifying matters dramatically. And they are problematic because your voice seems to command so much control of this town.
Look, scum players don't always, or even usually, interact with their buddies in expected ways. You can't really be going, "Hey, this person wanted to lynch Galz, and lynching Galz is bad for shraeye, therefore this player can't be shraeye's partner." That would be kindergarten level scum play.
Voltaire, your "Player X could not be shraeye's partner" arguments are oversimplifying matters dramatically. And they are problematic because your voice seems to command so much control of this town.
Look, scum players don't always, or even usually, interact with their buddies in expected ways. You can't really be going, "Hey, this person wanted to lynch Galz, and lynching Galz is bad for shraeye, therefore this player can't be shraeye's partner." That would be kindergarten level scum play.
Well, who do you think are shraeye's partners? I'm open to being convinced.
I think chairs simply cannot be shraeye's partner (on this re-read). At a time when the nkirbit scumslip votes are coming fast and furious, I bring up shraeye's wagon evaporating and chairs votes for shraeye (for this second time). He moves from the nkirbit wagon (where he was) to renew a wagon on a partner? He was also the first to vote for Galz - the enabler of his partner???
This just seems massively risky, like it could go wrong in so many ways, if he is shraeye's partner. Chairs could be scum, sure, but I don't think there is a case he's on the same team as shraeye. I won't be voting there today.
Robz, do you think it's possible that the town has a compulsive vig?
I think chairs simply cannot be shraeye's partner (on this re-read). At a time when the nkirbit scumslip votes are coming fast and furious, I bring up shraeye's wagon evaporating and chairs votes for shraeye (for this second time). He moves from the nkirbit wagon (where he was) to renew a wagon on a partner? He was also the first to vote for Galz - the enabler of his partner???
This just seems massively risky, like it could go wrong in so many ways, if he is shraeye's partner. Chairs could be scum, sure, but I don't think there is a case he's on the same team as shraeye. I won't be voting there today.
On compilation of vote history, I don't this is as convincing as Voltaire suggests. When it takes 11 to lynch, starting a wagon at 1 vote is hardly "massively risky," especially very early in the day. I note that, while chairs was the first to vote Galzria, he also quickly jumped off that wagon as soon as it reached its peak (5 votes), and in fact switched his vote BASED ON the last vote to hit Galz (mail-mi's). I also note that, while chairs jumped off the nkirbit wagon when it hit 4 votes to switch to shraeye, he later jumped back ON the nkirbit wagon for the second time it peaked (at 8 votes).
So I don't think chairs' behavior Day 1 is as cut-and-dry "not shraeye's partner" as Voltaire suggests. These are potentially the actions of scum bussing his partner when it's safe to do so.
There are other issues that I'm trying to weigh re: chairs that Voltaire hasn't touched on. Before getting into those details, I would like chairs to confirm his answer to my follow-up question.
I haven't made up my mind on chairs yet, but what Voltaire lists is not, to my eye, dispositive.
What's this about chairs lying about the investigation? He never did that. It's clear from the language he was using he had a "Town" result and was trying to figure out if it actually cleared someone.
Well, I look forward to your cases in more detail, then, if they ever are posted.
I think chairs simply cannot be shraeye's partner (on this re-read). At a time when the nkirbit scumslip votes are coming fast and furious, I bring up shraeye's wagon evaporating and chairs votes for shraeye (for this second time). He moves from the nkirbit wagon (where he was) to renew a wagon on a partner? He was also the first to vote for Galz - the enabler of his partner???
This just seems massively risky, like it could go wrong in so many ways, if he is shraeye's partner. Chairs could be scum, sure, but I don't think there is a case he's on the same team as shraeye. I won't be voting there today.
On compilation of vote history, I don't this is as convincing as Voltaire suggests. When it takes 11 to lynch, starting a wagon at 1 vote is hardly "massively risky," especially very early in the day. I note that, while chairs was the first to vote Galzria, he also quickly jumped off that wagon as soon as it reached its peak (5 votes), and in fact switched his vote BASED ON the last vote to hit Galz (mail-mi's). I also note that, while chairs jumped off the nkirbit wagon when it hit 4 votes to switch to shraeye, he later jumped back ON the nkirbit wagon for the second time it peaked (at 8 votes).
So I don't think chairs' behavior Day 1 is as cut-and-dry "not shraeye's partner" as Voltaire suggests. These are potentially the actions of scum bussing his partner when it's safe to do so.
There are other issues that I'm trying to weigh re: chairs that Voltaire hasn't touched on. Before getting into those details, I would like chairs to confirm his answer to my follow-up question.
I haven't made up my mind on chairs yet, but what Voltaire lists is not, to my eye, dispositive.
Yes, this is exactly what I think.
You were more suspicious of Galz than anyone else?
I'd never heard of any game actually using an Enabler before, and his WIFOM attempts made him feel particularly scummy to me.
So is the answer to my question "yes?"
chairs, why didn't you investigate Voltaire?
chairs, why didn't you investigate Voltaire?
Because that's one more mistake in a string of them that I'm finding out I've made.
Turns out faust is actually the first person to point out shraeye might try lurking out of suspicion, even before I brought it up later. I didn't notice it at the time. It's in 385.
I cannot remember much faust has done to be honest. His seemingly small shadow and the fact that he pointed out shraeye's lurking make me suspicious of him a bit. Lurking in particular can be a way to bus without pushing someone too hard because you're also sending a coded message to your team mate ("hey you're lurking, get in here before you get lynched"). I will make a closer read of faust at some point soon.
Turns out faust is actually the first person to point out shraeye might try lurking out of suspicion, even before I brought it up later. I didn't notice it at the time. It's in 385.
I cannot remember much faust has done to be honest. His seemingly small shadow and the fact that he pointed out shraeye's lurking make me suspicious of him a bit. Lurking in particular can be a way to bus without pushing someone too hard because you're also sending a coded message to your team mate ("hey you're lurking, get in here before you get lynched"). I will make a closer read of faust at some point soon.
206 (below) also struck me as potentially scum covering for a teammate. And sure enough, eventually faust lands on shraeye = townie and don't-lynch-Galz. That's not incriminating in and off itself, but I think the process is suspicious.I sorta agree that shraeye's posts seem a little scummy. Sadly, in all my newbishness, I can't compare to his usual playstyle (well, I could read through some other games, but I won't do that until it's important).
On the other hand, Voltaire answering to every single one of Walrus' points does seem a bit over the top.
Vote: Voltaire for now.
Those are two positions that someone on a team with shraeye would take.
Low post counts can be accounted for to some degree by time zone differences, but low post counts can also be new scum players who don't feel comfortable posting a lot afraid they might make a slip. This beginning of a case is... more compelling than what I thought made EFHW suspicious. vote: faust.
chairs, why didn't you investigate Voltaire?
Because that's one more mistake in a string of them that I'm finding out I've made.
That doesn't answer my question.
What I want to know is: What was your thought process in deciding to investigate Galz rather than investigate Voltaire? I don't care if it was a "mistake." I'm not even saying it necessarily was. What I am trying to determine is whether I believe you or not.
At this point I think our most beneficial flips will be Voltaire, liopoil, mcmc, and myself for interactions. I will argue that I still think Voltaire is the most interesting choice of those, but I don't see the lynch as viable today. The most reasonable of them in my mind is still mcmc. Lynching myself is, imho, a poor choice as I have utility for Town, but at least there'd be good data to work off of so Mafia could presumably be lynched later.
I have been totally away from computer and phone most of the day and am again several pages behind. I've done a very light skim up to recent posts and ugh, so much frustration in the air. I don't know what to say because I am very frustrated too, just the size, interactions, and feeling like nkirbit was right when he said we were conned into a role madness game have made this a very different game than I was expecting. I was eager to play with a cast of players like this, but things are going sour and I like the f.ds community more than this game. So all of that, combined with my busy schedule leaving me unable to contribute as much as is fair to you guys, leaves me considering bowing out. I am going to sleep on this (I have already seriously blown my bedtime trying to catch up) and hopefully have a decision by morning. I will also try to catch up before I decide. I do not want to do this, but this game has been uniquely tough for me.
If I may (possibly unreasonable, I realize), please do not try to analyze this post for its content.
I can't believe I'm about to wade into these waters. Please don't get mad.
The PRs are either entirely or largely townie so far so isn't your frustration with them more likely to be scum frustration?
I know you specifically said not to do this...
This is chairs' last post in Day 1, first two sentences bolded for emphasis:At this point I think our most beneficial flips will be Voltaire, liopoil, mcmc, and myself for interactions. I will argue that I still think Voltaire is the most interesting choice of those, but I don't see the lynch as viable today. The most reasonable of them in my mind is still mcmc. Lynching myself is, imho, a poor choice as I have utility for Town, but at least there'd be good data to work off of so Mafia could presumably be lynched later.
Mcmc was dead. Liopoil claimed Modern Family, and so wasn't a viable investigation target. chairs is himself.
So if the "most beneficial flip," in chairs' mind at the end of Day 1, was Voltaire, then why didn't chairs investigate Voltaire?
That's the question I'm struggling with.
Okay, here's my biggest problem with lynching chairs (aside from that I think he's town). If he's telling the truth scum will probably kill him tonight. If they leave him alive (so we suspect him more and we lynch him, or because he's actually scum) we can get at least one investigation out of him that will be useful.
Galzria has been pressing on Voltgloss for misleading town a lot. The main things Voltgloss did, in terms of his reads on other players, were to support Voltaire, push an EFHW lynch, and go against an Ahoppy lynch (which Galz has called him out for).
Galzria has been pressing on Voltgloss for misleading town a lot. The main things Voltgloss did, in terms of his reads on other players, were to support Voltaire, push an EFHW lynch, and go against an Ahoppy lynch (which Galz has called him out for).
I haven't read past this yet, but when conducting my reread of the end of Day 1, I realized that, during the chaos of that last hour, I automatically read a post of Galz's referring to "Volt" as referring to me. On reread, I realized it was just as possible he was referring to Voltaire, not me. I think part of my and Galz's butting heads stemmed from some confusion there (wholly my own). So, careful what conclusions you draw from this, because I think the meaning of the posts got a bit muddled there.
I invite Galz to clarify, as I only realized this was an issue recently when going back to compile the Day 1 vote history.
OK, now I've finished reading, and... do you have a conclusion, Twistedarcher?
OK, now I've finished reading, and... do you have a conclusion, Twistedarcher?
Voltaire is almost certainly town, Galzria looks sketchy for disagree with the way you're taking this game when I think you have been spot on with a lot of your reads, and Sudgy's and Chairs have sketchy claims, but I think Sudgy is the more likely scum out of everyone who has claimed.
But, am I correct that your major reads so far this game that Galz has been at odds with are over Voltaire, Ahoppy, and EFHW? I haven't re-read D1, but this seems to be what I remember -- let me know if I'm wrong about this / missing something.
Also, I want to elaborate that I don't HAVE a scum read on AHoppy. Nor do I have a town read. The whole thing with him at deadline followed thusly:
Shortly before the craziness started, I asked why AHoppy hadn't been talked about. Voltaire said that in fact he had, and that town had come to the consensus that his posts, while few, were chock full of content. I expressed that I had looked for both the discussion, and the consensus that he spoke of, but could find neither.
Fast forward to TA suggesting EFHW (or rather, the point you said "operation quickhammer"). The biggest point I saw TA making was that he didn't expect either "attention" lurker (lio/mcmc) to be scum, but instead felt that scum would be one of the less talked about lurkers (Shraeye was, to an extent). I was asked (I think by TA) if I had a town read on EFHW. At that point I had a null read, so I pulled her up and reread. During this, you questioned why I wasn't posting, and asked what my thoughts were. Having reread her, I found that:
A) She wasn't lurking. At nearly 50 posts she was pretty average.
B) She asked a lot of questions and brought plenty of content.
So I posted that I did not, in fact, think she was a great lynch. In the same post, I mentioned that AHoppy fit the criteria that TA was supposedly interested in much better than EFHW. I then immediately decided that since I wasn't big on mcmc/lio/EFHW, and time was running short, I should at least open up a fourth avenue. I voted.
Voltaire came forward with "I won't lynch AHoppy, period.". This struck me as odd considering my previous exchange with him over AHoppy, and the fact that he had AHoppy listed as one of his top town reads all day long, well before I believe strong reads were even available towards any player.
In any case, you condemned the action, TA more or less refused, and that was that. My whole point in the vote however, wasn't that I found him particularly scummy, it was that I was looking for a viable alternate lynch that fit the criteria listed by TA.
What I took away from that is that TA didn't have any real criteria. It left me feeling that there might be a connection there. I don't know. But the whole thing struck me as odd.
Not that TA was the worst offender on that front. Maybe he honestly didn't feel we had time. You certainly didn't. Voltaire is who really stood out. Especially considering he knows AHoppy's flavor.
TA seems to have pretty much completely similar read than I have on everything in this game. I'm not sure if it's super towny (because I think it's good analysis and logic) or super scummy (because I said a lot of the things first, and I could be dead wrong).
But, am I correct that your major reads so far this game that Galz has been at odds with are over Voltaire, Ahoppy, and EFHW? I haven't re-read D1, but this seems to be what I remember -- let me know if I'm wrong about this / missing something.
I think you are exaggerating Galz's being "at odds" with my "reads."
I didn't have a "read" on AHoppy being town. I didn't think there was enough time to accomplish that lynch when Galz proposed AHoppy during the last 15 minutes or whatever it was. AHoppy was a big question mark for me all of Day 1, and, frankly, all of Day 2 up until the Best Friends claim.
As for Voltaire: I didn't think he made sense as a Day 1 lynch because of how much he participated. I don't think he makes sense now as a Day 2 lynch because of - well, the same things you just said, TA, which are things I've already said in the thread before this.
EFHW remains something of a question mark for me. I get Galz's argument that her willingness to vig him makes her unlikely to be shraeye's scumpartner. I haven't written her off the list yet, but I am - based on that - leaning towards taking her off my Day 2 lynch list. As for the chaos at the end of Day 1 - I did not remember EFHW's stance on Galz (and so Galz's refusal to vote EFHW didn't make sense to me at the time; Galz, if you explained this then, I am sorry that I missed it). And in any event, this point became a much stronger one after shraeye's flip.
I thought that if I stayed helpful for town, you guys would want to keep me, and scum wouldn't want to waste a kill on me, so I thought it would help me win. Also, claiming admittedly has made the role more fun to play for me.TA seems to have pretty much completely similar read than I have on everything in this game. I'm not sure if it's super towny (because I think it's good analysis and logic) or super scummy (because I said a lot of the things first, and I could be dead wrong).
Yes, we have a lot of similar analysis. And actually a lot of it is based on your observation that Voltaire couldn't be mafia because he probably wouldn't have performed the mafia NK.
Just curious -- I missed this detail probably -- but why did you claim Survivor when you did?
I thought that if I stayed helpful for town, you guys would want to keep me, and scum wouldn't want to waste a kill on me, so I thought it would help me win. Also, claiming admittedly has made the role more fun to play for me.TA seems to have pretty much completely similar read than I have on everything in this game. I'm not sure if it's super towny (because I think it's good analysis and logic) or super scummy (because I said a lot of the things first, and I could be dead wrong).
Yes, we have a lot of similar analysis. And actually a lot of it is based on your observation that Voltaire couldn't be mafia because he probably wouldn't have performed the mafia NK.
Just curious -- I missed this detail probably -- but why did you claim Survivor when you did?
I don't think we had any truly confirmed (to people with no knowledge of community) community members on D1, did we?
I don't think we had any truly confirmed (to people with no knowledge of community) community members on D1, did we?
We did, with a little Google work. Walrus and sudgy. I have no knowledge of the shows and I figured that out. chairs' claim is that he didn't think to do this.
I don't think we had any truly confirmed (to people with no knowledge of community) community members on D1, did we?
We did, with a little Google work. Walrus and sudgy. I have no knowledge of the shows and I figured that out. chairs' claim is that he didn't think to do this.
Right, but were these confirmed in thread? Given Chairs' activity level, I would guess that he didn't do the legwork himself, and if they weren't confirmed, his claim is more believable.
I would like everyone, in their next post, to either:Number 2
(1) vote someone you would not mind lynching today; or
(2) specifically confirm that your vote is on someone you would not mind lynching today.
I would like everyone, in their next post, to either:
(1) vote someone you would not mind lynching today; or
(2) specifically confirm that your vote is on someone you would not mind lynching today.
I would not mind lynching faust today.
I would like everyone, in their next post, to either:
(1) vote someone you would not mind lynching today; or
(2) specifically confirm that your vote is on someone you would not mind lynching today.
Yes, this, but I mean obviously this is true right? That's why we vote
Also, fair warning: I am going to start channeling yuma.
Which means that, going forward, if you self-vote, I am going to vote you and not stop voting you until you are dead.
(So Galz, move that vote.)
Hey, Voltgloss, Robz, you should invite Dede to the party! Pretty please?
I would not mind lynching faust today.
Jorbles, Faust is next on my to-read list. Can you give me a quick summary for your case on Faust, though?
Hey, Voltgloss, Robz, you should invite Dede to the party! Pretty please?Why not? Vote: invite dede.
A.K.A: FaustI would like everyone, in their next post, to either:Number 2
(1) vote someone you would not mind lynching today; or
(2) specifically confirm that your vote is on someone you would not mind lynching today.
FoS to Archetype for suggesting a full-claim. A lot of the claimers have gotten removed from the lynch pool, which leaves all the scum who haven't claimed in the lynch pool (and I would guess there's still multiple scum unclaimed). Mass claiming would throw everyone back in there rather than a narrowed down pool, and scum may want a massclaim to prevent a narrower lynch pool that's not as much in their advantage. If you throw Walrus, Chairs, Sudgy, Galzria back into the pool, which would happen after a massclaim, that might be better odds for scum, so they are going to push a massclaim.
An attempt at humor.
I don't get it either. If you don't want to throw people back into the pool, then don't in your own reads. You can easily keep them separated. I was suggesting it compare and contrast the different roles in conjunction with my reads. I was hoping that others would like to do so too.FoS to Archetype for suggesting a full-claim. A lot of the claimers have gotten removed from the lynch pool, which leaves all the scum who haven't claimed in the lynch pool (and I would guess there's still multiple scum unclaimed). Mass claiming would throw everyone back in there rather than a narrowed down pool, and scum may want a massclaim to prevent a narrower lynch pool that's not as much in their advantage. If you throw Walrus, Chairs, Sudgy, Galzria back into the pool, which would happen after a massclaim, that might be better odds for scum, so they are going to push a massclaim.
I don't follow this logic at all. How does a massclaim put people back in the lynch pool?
TA you may have missed this point in the craziness of this thread, but there is an argument you don't consider, which is that scum had no reason to come to my wagon when they had more people on other town wagons that were just as good. In fact, for that reason I saw the people on my wagon as more towny, b/c why would scum bother drawing attention to themselves by moving?
I don't get it either. If you don't want to throw people back into the pool, then don't in your own reads. You can easily keep them separated. I was suggesting it compare and contrast the different roles in conjunction with my reads. I was hoping that others would like to do so too.
faust comes out looking reasonably likely as a shraeye partner, for all of the reasons I've previously stated, and also for 2040, where he wants to lynch among our claimants.Can you please point me to where they are stated? I can't remember you making any kind of case on me in the past.
I probably could've been clearer.I don't get it either. If you don't want to throw people back into the pool, then don't in your own reads. You can easily keep them separated. I was suggesting it compare and contrast the different roles in conjunction with my reads. I was hoping that others would like to do so too.
I have no idea what you are saying here, Arch. Please explain more fully what you hoped to accomplish with a massclaim.
I don't get it either. If you don't want to throw people back into the pool, then don't in your own reads. You can easily keep them separated. I was suggesting it compare and contrast the different roles in conjunction with my reads. I was hoping that others would like to do so too.FoS to Archetype for suggesting a full-claim. A lot of the claimers have gotten removed from the lynch pool, which leaves all the scum who haven't claimed in the lynch pool (and I would guess there's still multiple scum unclaimed). Mass claiming would throw everyone back in there rather than a narrowed down pool, and scum may want a massclaim to prevent a narrower lynch pool that's not as much in their advantage. If you throw Walrus, Chairs, Sudgy, Galzria back into the pool, which would happen after a massclaim, that might be better odds for scum, so they are going to push a massclaim.
I don't follow this logic at all. How does a massclaim put people back in the lynch pool?
Vote: Invite Dede. No reason to deny TA his secondary wincon when the player with the opposite secondary wincon (mcmc) is already dead.
Vote: Invite Dede. No reason to deny TA his secondary wincon when the player with the opposite secondary wincon (mcmc) is already dead.
Pretty sure it's Nkirbit, actually. He's Jay, doesn't want Deedee there.
Suck it, Nkirbit! :)
Oh. See, Arch, here I thought you were advocating massclaim because you wanted to find out who is the Tracker and/or Watcher, and who is the Vig and/or SK, and whether there's a Doctor still in the mix. Y'know, to help scum plan their nightkill and night action strategy, just like me, shraeye, and mail-mi did Night 2 of LOTR 2, where massclaim during Day 2 was literally the best thing that could have ever happened to us.Hey, now you got it!
Oh. See, Arch, here I thought you were advocating massclaim because you wanted to find out who is the Tracker and/or Watcher, and who is the Vig and/or SK, and whether there's a Doctor still in the mix. Y'know, to help scum plan their nightkill and night action strategy, just like me, shraeye, and mail-mi did Night 2 of LOTR 2, where massclaim during Day 2 was literally the best thing that could have ever happened to us.Hey, now you got it!
ash, you're vote count shows me as not voting, which is wrong
-First to call out shraeye for lurking. (something a scum partner would do both to bus and tell their partner to start being more proactive)Okay, response:
-Though initially expresses suspicion of shraeye eventually decided shraeye was towny, switching his vote to Voltaire (who I have a town read on, plus there's two players backing up Voltaire's town claim (AHoppy and Walrus)). Post 206 does read like he's covering for shraeye.
-Opposed lynching Galzria (not suspicious in and of itself, but not a surprising position if one were a scum player)
-Low post count indicates that he might be a new scum player (he is new) as they often don't post a lot for fear of making a mistake.
Anyhow that's what I see as most suspicious.
ash, you're vote count shows me as not voting, which is wrong
I don't think so.
Vote Count 2.10:
Walrus (1): AHoppy
Eevee (1): chairs
Dsell (2): Eevee, mail-mi
EFHW (2): Walrus, TA
sudgy (1): faust
Galzria (1): Galzria
Archetype (1): Voltgloss
faust (3): Jorbles, Voltaire, Archetype
TwistedArcher (1): EFHW
chairs (2): bocaJ, Robz
Not Voting (2):sudgy, dsell
With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.
Day 2 ends on October 6th at 9:30 p.m.
Will Dede be at Haley's Party?
Invite Dede (8): Twistedarcher, Archetype, bocaJ, sudgy, chairs, Jorbles, Robz888, mail-mi
Not Invite Dede (4): Walrus, AHoppy, Voltaire, EFHW
Not Voting (5): Eevee, Voltgloss, Galzria, Dsell, Faust
I would not mind lynching faust today.
Jorbles, Faust is next on my to-read list. Can you give me a quick summary for your case on Faust, though?
-First to call out shraeye for lurking. (something a scum partner would do both to bus and tell their partner to start being more proactive)
-Though initially expresses suspicion of shraeye eventually decided shraeye was towny, switching his vote to Voltaire (who I have a town read on, plus there's two players backing up Voltaire's town claim (AHoppy and Walrus)). Post 206 does read like he's covering for shraeye.
-Opposed lynching Galzria (not suspicious in and of itself, but not a surprising position if one were a scum player)
-Low post count indicates that he might be a new scum player (he is new) as they often don't post a lot for fear of making a mistake.
Anyhow that's what I see as most suspicious.
-First to call out shraeye for lurking. (something a scum partner would do both to bus and tell their partner to start being more proactive)Okay, response:
-Though initially expresses suspicion of shraeye eventually decided shraeye was towny, switching his vote to Voltaire (who I have a town read on, plus there's two players backing up Voltaire's town claim (AHoppy and Walrus)). Post 206 does read like he's covering for shraeye.
-Opposed lynching Galzria (not suspicious in and of itself, but not a surprising position if one were a scum player)
-Low post count indicates that he might be a new scum player (he is new) as they often don't post a lot for fear of making a mistake.
Anyhow that's what I see as most suspicious.
1) Is town calling out on lurkers that unreasonable? I mean, it happened a whole lot D1. But okay, probably me calling out explicitly shraeye for it (did I do that? I can't remember, but I'll just trust your reread) does look somewhat bad.
2) This is not true, I had a slight scum read on shraeye at the end of D1. Also I think it's unfair blaming me for not having a town read early D1 that you have now.
3) Well, that certainly doesn't make me look townie. It kinda weak as justification for a scum read though, as you mention yourself.
4) Again, I don't believe I have a low post count. At least D1, I was often in the top half of posters I think. Maybe someone can do a post count now to back this up, I think Walrus has some tool for it?
So what remains in my eyes is that I called out shraeye for lurking and that I opposed lynching Galzria. I can understand if that gives you a slight scum read on me, but making me your favorite lynch?
faust comes out looking reasonably likely as a shraeye partner, for all of the reasons I've previously stated, and also for 2040, where he wants to lynch among our claimants.Can you please point me to where they are stated? I can't remember you making any kind of case on me in the past.
206 (below) also struck me as potentially scum covering for a teammate. And sure enough, eventually faust lands on shraeye = townie and don't-lynch-Galz. That's not incriminating in and off itself, but I think the process is suspicious.I sorta agree that shraeye's posts seem a little scummy. Sadly, in all my newbishness, I can't compare to his usual playstyle (well, I could read through some other games, but I won't do that until it's important).
On the other hand, Voltaire answering to every single one of Walrus' points does seem a bit over the top.
Vote: Voltaire for now.
I reread Archetype's posts, but it hasn't helped me much. There is some scumhunting, some other discussion, nothing that really stands out. Again, my first game on this site featured a lurky Archetype getting mislynched D1. If I were voting for him now, tht would be solely based on lurking, and I don't want to do that.
It already really late here, and I need to get some sleep. As much as I'd like to stick around until the deadline, it won't be possible. So consider my vote final, I'm out of here.
Faust leaves with his vote on lio, after expressing a "meh" on Archetype.
I think Faust is the first official entrant in the deep end of the pool - the "happy to lynch today" end! I definitely want to unvote for now. Bigger post following with my post-re-read thoughts.
Does 3 cops for a 21-man game seem feasible, or just one too many?
Does 3 cops for a 21-man game seem feasible, or just one too many?
If xeiron works the way I think he would have worked, he's probably a 1-shot cop. Chairs is half a cob. If Walrus is telling the truth (and shraeye's death supports this), Walrus will get false positives.
So it doesn't seem like too much, no.
Does 3 cops for a 21-man game seem feasible, or just one too many?
If xeiron works the way I think he would have worked, he's probably a 1-shot cop. Chairs is half a cob. If Walrus is telling the truth (and shraeye's death supports this), Walrus will get false positives.
So it doesn't seem like too much, no.
How do you think Xeiron worked? I tried to look it up, couldn't find it, and moved on.
Aaaaaand vote: Faust. Classic newbie scum tell. "I'll admit it, I look scummy, but I'm not the best!" See KCGM Mafia where I am caught for just that.-First to call out shraeye for lurking. (something a scum partner would do both to bus and tell their partner to start being more proactive)Okay, response:
-Though initially expresses suspicion of shraeye eventually decided shraeye was towny, switching his vote to Voltaire (who I have a town read on, plus there's two players backing up Voltaire's town claim (AHoppy and Walrus)). Post 206 does read like he's covering for shraeye.
-Opposed lynching Galzria (not suspicious in and of itself, but not a surprising position if one were a scum player)
-Low post count indicates that he might be a new scum player (he is new) as they often don't post a lot for fear of making a mistake.
Anyhow that's what I see as most suspicious.
1) Is town calling out on lurkers that unreasonable? I mean, it happened a whole lot D1. But okay, probably me calling out explicitly shraeye for it (did I do that? I can't remember, but I'll just trust your reread) does look somewhat bad.
2) This is not true, I had a slight scum read on shraeye at the end of D1. Also I think it's unfair blaming me for not having a town read early D1 that you have now.
3) Well, that certainly doesn't make me look townie. It kinda weak as justification for a scum read though, as you mention yourself.
4) Again, I don't believe I have a low post count. At least D1, I was often in the top half of posters I think. Maybe someone can do a post count now to back this up, I think Walrus has some tool for it?
So what remains in my eyes is that I called out shraeye for lurking and that I opposed lynching Galzria. I can understand if that gives you a slight scum read on me, but making me your favorite lynch?
Doesn't really say much when we know the alternate lynch was a townie, does it? But alright, I guess I'll wait for your big post. I might however not be able to respond before tomorrow.Do you mean to say this is scummy? Why?I reread Archetype's posts, but it hasn't helped me much. There is some scumhunting, some other discussion, nothing that really stands out. Again, my first game on this site featured a lurky Archetype getting mislynched D1. If I were voting for him now, tht would be solely based on lurking, and I don't want to do that.
It already really late here, and I need to get some sleep. As much as I'd like to stick around until the deadline, it won't be possible. So consider my vote final, I'm out of here.
Faust leaves with his vote on lio, after expressing a "meh" on Archetype.
Yes, because we have another scum player (shraeye) who also left with a vote parked on lio.
"a", not "another". I am currently writing my big post and talking about scenarios where you are scum, so I was in the "assume it" frame of mind.
Voltgloss: 359
Voltaire: 304
Robz888: 178
Twistedarcher: 162
Galzria: 144
EFHW: 123
liopoil: 115
Eevee: 110
faust: 105
nkirbit: 87
Dsell: 73
Archetype: 68
chairs: 66
sudgy: 61
mail-mi: 57
WalrusMcFishSr: 49
shraeye: 40
AHoppy: 30
xeiron: 23
bocaJ: 20
mcmcsalot: 14
TA you may have missed this point in the craziness of this thread, but there is an argument you don't consider, which is that scum had no reason to come to my wagon when they had more people on other town wagons that were just as good. In fact, for that reason I saw the people on my wagon as more towny, b/c why would scum bother drawing attention to themselves by moving?
I think that is part of TA's point. He thinks everyone who moved to your wagon is town. And he thinks scum didn't move to your wagon because, well, he thinks you're scum.
Voltgloss: 359
Voltaire: 304
Robz888: 178
Twistedarcher: 162
Galzria: 144
EFHW: 124
liopoil: 115
Eevee: 110
faust: 105
nkirbit: 87
Dsell: 73
Archetype: 68
chairs: 66
sudgy: 61
mail-mi: 57
WalrusMcFishSr: 50
shraeye: 40
AHoppy: 30
Jorbles: 25
xeiron: 23
bocaJ: 20
mcmcsalot: 14
Although he did just commit the "Yeah, that's scummy, but I'm not scum!" scumtell.
Aaaaaand vote: Faust. Classic newbie scum tell. "I'll admit it, I look scummy, but I'm not the best!" See KCGM Mafia where I am caught for just that.
The fact that no one - at all - has joined me in suspecting Archetype is ringing serious alarm bells in my mind.
Like, every time I've publicly suspected someone or suggested someone for the lynch, someone has jumped on board and "sheeped the IC" to some degree. But here - almost nothing. Instead, a quickwagon developed on someone else (and someone who, I admit, is a viable lynch candidate). The only people I remember who have even responded were TA giving Arch an FoS for suggesting massclaim (but not doing any more than that, and then he joined the faust wagon), and Robz at least responding to my suggesting Archetype during the end-of-Day-1 lynch craziness.
The fact that Archetype is on that wagon - along with another player who was "fine with massclaim" (mail-mi) - rings even more alarm bells in my mind.
My post about massclaim being exactly what scum wants was, by the way, 100% serious.
So, can someone explain to me why Archetype is so clearly town that so many people don't want to talk about him at all?
Because from where I sit, I feel like I've finally pointed my finger at scum.
The fact that no one - at all - has joined me in suspecting Archetype is ringing serious alarm bells in my mind.
Archetype looks pretty scummy for skating by in that "middle ground". I also don't think he interacted with shraeye much at all, and I'm sure at least one partner is like that. I think the case on Archetype is stronger for "scum" than it is for "shraeye's partner."
I missed the case since I wasn't doing a re-read, I was only looking at people I found scummy previously and people who had multiple votes. My FoS at Arch wasn't related to your case, I haven't seen your case. What post is it?
#2400. And I admit up front it's not at the level of a "case." It's mainly my seeing Arch propose massclaim, and a few people jump on as "hey that's a good idea" - mail-mi was one, I keep blanking on the other, I need to doublecheck - and I'm sitting there thinking "this is a TERRIBLE idea for town and a WONDERFUL idea for scum."
I have included Arche in every single of my suspicions list.
Mail-mi has commented something weird and scummy to SO many things now. It's pretty odd there hasn't been any movement towards him.
Mail-mi has commented something weird and scummy to SO many things now. It's pretty odd there hasn't been any movement towards him.
Off the top of my head, him saying lynching Galzria would hurt scum 75% of the time.Mail-mi has commented something weird and scummy to SO many things now. It's pretty odd there hasn't been any movement towards him.
I agree with the second sentence.
What examples do you have in mind re: the first sentence? Mail-mi supporting massclaim jumps out at me. What are the others.
Mail-mi has commented something weird and scummy to SO many things now. It's pretty odd there hasn't been any movement towards him.
I agree with the second sentence.
What examples do you have in mind re: the first sentence? Mail-mi supporting massclaim jumps out at me. What are the others.
Can someone voting faust tell me where the key posts are that support the faust case? I see Jorbles' description of them; I'd like to review the posts themselves.
Yes, these too.Mail-mi has commented something weird and scummy to SO many things now. It's pretty odd there hasn't been any movement towards him.
I agree with the second sentence.
What examples do you have in mind re: the first sentence? Mail-mi supporting massclaim jumps out at me. What are the others.
Off the top of my head, voting me for bad reasons at the start of the day (compared to Galz/Robz/Dsell, mail-mi's reasons were terrible), blatant sheeping of Eevee's entire reads post.
Also, remember faust has more than enough votes to be lynched right now, so we should all be turning our scumhunting towards other players at this point, unless we want to end the day early by going for a majority lynch, in which case I will reread faust. I'd say let's continue. What do you think Voltgloss?
Also, remember faust has more than enough votes to be lynched right now, so we should all be turning our scumhunting towards other players at this point, unless we want to end the day early by going for a majority lynch, in which case I will reread faust. I'd say let's continue. What do you think Voltgloss?
Also, remember faust has more than enough votes to be lynched right now, so we should all be turning our scumhunting towards other players at this point, unless we want to end the day early by going for a majority lynch, in which case I will reread faust. I'd say let's continue. What do you think Voltgloss?
You'd say "let's continue?" Let's continue doing what? Let's continue scumhunting other players, or let's continue lynching faust?
Voltglosss, I just read the qt from lotr. Honestly I don't see all that much -- the main thing I get from him is "play as if you're town". What are you finding that you think is interesting because I don't think this is all that relevant.
Voltglosss, I just read the qt from lotr. Honestly I don't see all that much -- the main thing I get from him is "play as if you're town". What are you finding that you think is interesting because I don't think this is all that relevant.
1. Bussing or defending scum partners only if it would make sense to do so if you were town
2. Did you see shraeye's comments about how many scum should be on/off lynch wagon?
I'm going to vote: chairs. He wanted to showclaim early on, and his claim was a good way to get that information. It might just be poor town play, but this is the best I've got right now. Continuing to look at other candidates ...
I'm going to vote: chairs. He wanted to showclaim early on, and his claim was a good way to get that information. It might just be poor town play, but this is the best I've got right now. Continuing to look at other candidates ...
Also, remember faust has more than enough votes to be lynched right now, so we should all be turning our scumhunting towards other players at this point, unless we want to end the day early by going for a majority lynch, in which case I will reread faust. I'd say let's continue. What do you think Voltgloss?
If ever there were a moment where I would buy a "sheeping the IC" case...EFHW votes for chairs, a stale-ish wagon, and then this. EFHW, I think you should re-read faust and tell us whether or not you think he's scum.
I'm going to vote: chairs. He wanted to showclaim early on, and his claim was a good way to get that information. It might just be poor town play, but this is the best I've got right now. Continuing to look at other candidates ...
If you think chairs' Day 1 request to mass showclaim was suspicious, what do you think about Archetype's Day 1 request to mass flavorclaim?
Also, remember faust has more than enough votes to be lynched right now, so we should all be turning our scumhunting towards other players at this point, unless we want to end the day early by going for a majority lynch, in which case I will reread faust. I'd say let's continue. What do you think Voltgloss?
You'd say "let's continue?" Let's continue doing what? Let's continue scumhunting other players, or let's continue lynching faust?
EFHW, I asked you about your thoughts on Archetype. You responded by talking about chairs.
I did reread Archetype and he's very consistent in his reads and his comments make sense. He hasn't voted often, but his votes have been consistent with his reads.
Vote: Mail-Mi
I found a reason on re-reading to suspect that he's a Rolecop. Please don't ask me to explain further. If he I'm RIGHT, and he reaches night alive, it could be disasterous for town. If I'm WRONG, then hopefully lynching him is no worse than anybody else. Certainly from the cases I've read on everybody else it seems he's as likely to be scum as anybody else here.
And there ARE decent points against him besides the above reason:
He's incredibly lurky. Like, more than even I recall. He's not at all stood out in my mind, except when he "slipped" to say that lynching me would be bad for scum (may or may not have been a 'real' slip, but it's there regardless). He's not received much suspicion (see case on EFHW D1, AHoppy D1), and when his name's been mentioned, like Archetype, it's received little response.
Voltgloss, I'll lynch Archetype instead if you're set on it. But I think that Mail-Mi carries with him information from N1 that would be detrimental to town for scum to find out. If Arche is scum, and Mail-Mi town, then certainly lynching Arche is better. But if I'm right about Mail-Mi, then I think he's a better lynch than both Town!Archetype (obviously), and Scum!Archetype. I think at this point, given what I saw, Mail-Mi is the only person I'll seriously consider lynching unless you, Voltgloss, absolutely refuse it as a lynch, in which case I'll sheep wherever you want me at. But I really do think that the risk of leaving scum!Mail-Mi alive makes lynching him and being WRONG worthwhile.
He's not at all stood out in my mind, except when he "slipped" to say that lynching me would be bad for scum (may or may not have been a 'real' slip, but it's there regardless).
I could get behind a mail-mi lynch. I have one question (not about the rolecop issue):He's not at all stood out in my mind, except when he "slipped" to say that lynching me would be bad for scum (may or may not have been a 'real' slip, but it's there regardless).
Where was this? The 75% stuff?
I could get behind a mail-mi lynch. I have one question (not about the rolecop issue):He's not at all stood out in my mind, except when he "slipped" to say that lynching me would be bad for scum (may or may not have been a 'real' slip, but it's there regardless).
Where was this? The 75% stuff?
That's an interesting argument against mail-mi, and he meets some of my other private lynch criteria.
vote: mail-mi.
That's an interesting argument against mail-mi, and he meets some of my other private lynch criteria.
vote: mail-mi.
????
I did reread Archetype and he's very consistent in his reads and his comments make sense. He hasn't voted often, but his votes have been consistent with his reads.
You just reread Arch? Good, that will save me some time. What were his reads? Which comments of his did you think made sense?
I don't see the ultra-compelling argument against mail-mi, and apparently I'm not supposed to ask what it is.
I want this pressure on EFHW to continue and I don't like how we just got switched away from it.
People we rarely hear from suddenly pop up and are available to vote mail-mi
Vote: Mail-MiUm no. I am not.
I found a reason on re-reading to suspect that he's a Rolecop. Please don't ask me to explain further. If he I'm RIGHT, and he reaches night alive, it could be disasterous for town. If I'm WRONG, then hopefully lynching him is no worse than anybody else. Certainly from the cases I've read on everybody else it seems he's as likely to be scum as anybody else here.
And there ARE decent points against him besides the above reason:
He's incredibly lurky. Like, more than even I recall. He's not at all stood out in my mind, except when he "slipped" to say that lynching me would be bad for scum (may or may not have been a 'real' slip, but it's there regardless). He's not received much suspicion (see case on EFHW D1, AHoppy D1), and when his name's been mentioned, like Archetype, it's received little response.
Voltgloss, I'll lynch Archetype instead if you're set on it. But I think that Mail-Mi carries with him information from N1 that would be detrimental to town for scum to find out. If Arche is scum, and Mail-Mi town, then certainly lynching Arche is better. But if I'm right about Mail-Mi, then I think he's a better lynch than both Town!Archetype (obviously), and Scum!Archetype. I think at this point, given what I saw, Mail-Mi is the only person I'll seriously consider lynching unless you, Voltgloss, absolutely refuse it as a lynch, in which case I'll sheep wherever you want me at. But I really do think that the risk of leaving scum!Mail-Mi alive makes lynching him and being WRONG worthwhile.
It's a pretty big risk to say this if you are mafia.I haven't seen the shows, but it says in my PM that i win when all threats to the Study Group are eliminated.What? There aren't any evil characters in either show, right? So saying that 7 characters is town is pretty big.Yes, nkirbit, did you not? That one word carries a whole lot. A legitimate scumslip, I believe. vote: nkirbitDid you not know that?"Ah, Reg, dear pal, do you remember the last time we ended up in this room? It was a serene and placid timeline. A happy one. One with no darkness at all.Interesting.
....
"Ah right, Arbor Day. Fantastic, that was. Anyway, this room was magic then. Anyone who entered it became a member of the Study Group. It felt like a little town in here. Almost like the Study Group was the Town. Interchangeable terms, weren't they Reg?"
Vote: mail-mi
I don't get what's going on. Everyone is sheeping the case without even knowing what the case is. How can I vote mailmi without proof of what I'm voting him for? I need more than galz and robz words here.
Only person who seems to be thinking the same way as I am is Voltaire. I just don't get what is happening. Someone is going to need to explain the case to me if I'm going to vote there.
I don't get what's going on. Everyone is sheeping the case without even knowing what the case is. How can I vote mailmi without proof of what I'm voting him for? I need more than galz and robz words here.
Only person who seems to be thinking the same way as I am is Voltaire. I just don't get what is happening. Someone is going to need to explain the case to me if I'm going to vote there.
reread first.
I don't get what's going on. Everyone is sheeping the case without even knowing what the case is. How can I vote mailmi without proof of what I'm voting him for? I need more than galz and robz words here.Sorry, too busy again to reread now, but yeah, I don't understand all this mail-mi suspicion either and am unwilling to vote there because of this. mail-mi is always the easy lynch (sorry man, it's true). His playstyle just asks for him to be lynched if we're lynching all lurkers. But both time's I've been a part of lynching him he's town... And I don't get a different vibe here.
Only person who seems to be thinking the same way as I am is Voltaire. I just don't get what is happening. Someone is going to need to explain the case to me if I'm going to vote there.
If everyone is going to obviously see it on reread why can't someone post it? Ill reread this evening but if it's oh so obvious why can't we talk about it?I don't get what's going on. Everyone is sheeping the case without even knowing what the case is. How can I vote mailmi without proof of what I'm voting him for? I need more than galz and robz words here.reread first.
Only person who seems to be thinking the same way as I am is Voltaire. I just don't get what is happening. Someone is going to need to explain the case to me if I'm going to vote there.
I am just incredibly confused.
SInce it's now 7 votes, I'm going to unvote for safety until this is resolved and b/c we probably want to give mail-mi a chance to claim. I do want to hear Galz's and Robz's responses to the study group post I pulled up. But I am generally around to put my vote back if needed.
SInce it's now 7 votes, I'm going to unvote for safety until this is resolved and b/c we probably want to give mail-mi a chance to claim. I do want to hear Galz's and Robz's responses to the study group post I pulled up. But I am generally around to put my vote back if needed.
I would request that he be put to true L-1, and then given a chance to speak.
SInce it's now 7 votes, I'm going to unvote for safety until this is resolved and b/c we probably want to give mail-mi a chance to claim. I do want to hear Galz's and Robz's responses to the study group post I pulled up. But I am generally around to put my vote back if needed.
I would request that he be put to true L-1, and then given a chance to speak.
Why can't you make the case public? This makes zero sense to me.
I would request that he be put to true L-1, and then given a chance to speak.
SInce it's now 7 votes, I'm going to unvote for safety until this is resolved and b/c we probably want to give mail-mi a chance to claim. I do want to hear Galz's and Robz's responses to the study group post I pulled up. But I am generally around to put my vote back if needed.
I would request that he be put to true L-1, and then given a chance to speak.
Why can't you make the case public? This makes zero sense to me.
Okay, so there is obviously a very good reason--or at least, a reason Galz and I believe is very good.
Do you think we are A) wrong, or B) scum trying to mislead you?
If you don't think A or B, do as we ask.
Keep in mind that this is the best way to use a town PR like the one I have.
Incidentally, part of the thinking behind my vote is: "even IF Robz/Galz are wrong, there is still a reasonably strong chance mail-mi is scum."
SInce it's now 7 votes, I'm going to unvote for safety until this is resolved and b/c we probably want to give mail-mi a chance to claim. I do want to hear Galz's and Robz's responses to the study group post I pulled up. But I am generally around to put my vote back if needed.
I would request that he be put to true L-1, and then given a chance to speak.
Why can't you make the case public? This makes zero sense to me.
Okay, so there is obviously a very good reason--or at least, a reason Galz and I believe is very good.
Do you think we are A) wrong, or B) scum trying to mislead you?
If you don't think A or B, do as we ask.
Keep in mind that this is the best way to use a town PR like the one I have.
I have absolutely no way to judge the merit of the case given that I don't know what the case is.
Even if voltgloss were to say "I think mailmi is a role cop" and urged everyone to vote him I would not unless I saw his reasoning and agreed with it.
The fact that you and galzria pressured Voltaire for sheeping Voltaire, a confirmed town, yet now you want people to sheep yourself and galzria, alignment unknown, is so strange.
Why do you think people should sheep this case when your alignment is unconfirmed, while you said sheeping voltgloss d1 was bad? At least voltgloss had public reads people could try to understand which is way more than what is available here.
I will but I strongly disagree with what's going on. Secrecy like this is silly. If I will notice it on reread just save me the damn time please?
This is making me really neurotic -- I think we do have to account for this:
It's a pretty big risk to say this if you are mafia.I haven't seen the shows, but it says in my PM that i win when all threats to the Study Group are eliminated.What? There aren't any evil characters in either show, right? So saying that 7 characters is town is pretty big.Yes, nkirbit, did you not? That one word carries a whole lot. A legitimate scumslip, I believe. vote: nkirbitDid you not know that?"Ah, Reg, dear pal, do you remember the last time we ended up in this room? It was a serene and placid timeline. A happy one. One with no darkness at all.Interesting.
....
"Ah right, Arbor Day. Fantastic, that was. Anyway, this room was magic then. Anyone who entered it became a member of the Study Group. It felt like a little town in here. Almost like the Study Group was the Town. Interchangeable terms, weren't they Reg?"
I could, but I want to reread myself first. Possible intention to vote?I will but I strongly disagree with what's going on. Secrecy like this is silly. If I will notice it on reread just save me the damn time please?
No. mail-mi hasn't posted much.
Only one more person vote for mail-mi. That vote will put him at L-1
Seriously a player is at L-2 two because two players of unknown alignment say they have reason to think he's scum but they can't tell us why. I hope I am not the only one who sees how absolutely positively ridiculous this is. People are sheeping this case without knowing what the case even is and that just boggles my mind. This "slip" had better be so obvious and so scummy or else this is extremely poor play by all the town members blindly jumping on. Shame!!!
Seriously a player is at L-2 two because two players of unknown alignment say they have reason to think he's scum but they can't tell us why. I hope I am not the only one who sees how absolutely positively ridiculous this is. People are sheeping this case without knowing what the case even is and that just boggles my mind. This "slip" had better be so obvious and so scummy or else this is extremely poor play by all the town members blindly jumping on. Shame!!!It's not like mail-mi has been the towniest super towny town other than that one slip (that I have no opinion of).
Seriously a player is at L-2 two because two players of unknown alignment say they have reason to think he's scum but they can't tell us why. I hope I am not the only one who sees how absolutely positively ridiculous this is. People are sheeping this case without knowing what the case even is and that just boggles my mind. This "slip" had better be so obvious and so scummy or else this is extremely poor play by all the town members blindly jumping on. Shame!!!
I haven't seen the shows, but it says in my PM that i win when all threats to the Study Group are eliminated.No one had explicitly stated this before mail-mi.
I haven't seen the shows, but it says in my PM that i win when all threats to the Study Group are eliminated.No one had explicitly stated this before mail-mi.
I haven't seen the shows, but it says in my PM that i win when all threats to the Study Group are eliminated.No one had explicitly stated this before mail-mi.
Ugh. This wagon, minus Voltgloss who is horribly wrong, is filled with scum. At least give me a chance to say something about this after school. Srsly, this wagon built up over a few hours.
Seriously a player is at L-2 two because two players of unknown alignment say they have reason to think he's scum but they can't tell us why. I hope I am not the only one who sees how absolutely positively ridiculous this is. People are sheeping this case without knowing what the case even is and that just boggles my mind. This "slip" had better be so obvious and so scummy or else this is extremely poor play by all the town members blindly jumping on. Shame!!!
I haven't seen the shows, but it says in my PM that i win when all threats to the Study Group are eliminated.No one had explicitly stated this before mail-mi.
--Study Group means Town in this game. The terms are interchangeable.
--Study Group means Town in this game. The terms are interchangeable.[/quote]
Ugh. This wagon, minus Voltgloss who is horribly wrong, is filled with scum. At least give me a chance to say something about this after school. Srsly, this wagon built up over a few hours.
I don't think the speed of the wagon is really ripe for criticism. The wagon gained speed because this is a very atypical situation. The case has been withheld, so really it's a test of on balance how scummy people think you are plus their trust in me and galz being town plus their trust in us being right plus their trust in Voltgloss. None of this requires much of a leap.
But don't get in trouble at school. We're here, waiting.
Ugh. This wagon, minus Voltgloss who is horribly wrong, is filled with scum. At least give me a chance to say something about this after school. Srsly, this wagon built up over a few hours.
I don't think the speed of the wagon is really ripe for criticism. The wagon gained speed because this is a very atypical situation. The case has been withheld, so really it's a test of on balance how scummy people think you are plus their trust in me and galz being town plus their trust in us being right plus their trust in Voltgloss. None of this requires much of a leap.
But don't get in trouble at school. We're here, waiting.
Seriously a player is at L-2 two because two players of unknown alignment say they have reason to think he's scum but they can't tell us why. I hope I am not the only one who sees how absolutely positively ridiculous this is. People are sheeping this case without knowing what the case even is and that just boggles my mind. This "slip" had better be so obvious and so scummy or else this is extremely poor play by all the town members blindly jumping on. Shame!!!
I find you pretty scummy for this, regardless of mail-mi's alignment. You just sound fake to me.
Walrus.
I think you are likely town. So I am asking you to do this, not because I think you are scum, but because I get a headache every time I read one of your posts.
Please make a post where the first half of every sentence you type isn't immediately contradicted by the second half.
Thank you.
I would be fine with a mail-mi lynch today. However, I haven't picked up on exactly why so many people are suddenly flocking to his wagon. How's that?
Ugh. This wagon, minus Voltgloss who is horribly wrong, is filled with scum. At least give me a chance to say something about this after school. Srsly, this wagon built up over a few hours.
I don't think the speed of the wagon is really ripe for criticism. The wagon gained speed because this is a very atypical situation. The case has been withheld, so really it's a test of on balance how scummy people think you are plus their trust in me and galz being town plus their trust in us being right plus their trust in Voltgloss. None of this requires much of a leap.
But don't get in trouble at school. We're here, waiting.
I would be fine with a mail-mi lynch today. However, I haven't picked up on exactly why so many people are suddenly flocking to his wagon. How's that?
I don't have time to reread mail-mi right now, but I wanted to chime in that this seems crazy to me. We're lynching mail-mi for a mystery scum slip?
This seems like a bad plan to me, but I have nothing to say in mail-mi's defense. He is one of my scummier reads so I'm okay with this.
I will reread tonight when I get home, and hopefully it will make sense, but can Galz and Robz at least promise to explain themselves after mail-mi's flip. Post an explanation in your neighbourhood that way if one of you dies tonight the other can post it in here.
Also, I get why Galzria is probably town, but why is Robz being painted with the same brush? His actions have been all over the map for me, and I don't view him as particularly towny at this point in the game.
I refuse to vote mail-mi if the only reason is Galz saying "Well he's probably a Role Cop for some reason that I won't tell everyone". I mean, sure mail-mi isn't always here, but he hasn't done anything terribly scummy that should make him the lynch for today. I mean, I'll go along with it if we need one more vote or whatever, but I'd much rather lynch faust today.That's such a scummy thing to say!
Heck yeah it is! How's that for conflicting views? But more seriously, I wouldn't necessary be opposed to the lynch (he IS lurking), but I don't really approve it either. I'll vote if needed, but faust is the better choice today.I refuse to vote mail-mi if the only reason is Galz saying "Well he's probably a Role Cop for some reason that I won't tell everyone". I mean, sure mail-mi isn't always here, but he hasn't done anything terribly scummy that should make him the lynch for today. I mean, I'll go along with it if we need one more vote or whatever, but I'd much rather lynch faust today.That's such a scummy thing to say!
Heck yeah it is! How's that for conflicting views? But more seriously, I wouldn't necessary be opposed to the lynch (he IS lurking), but I don't really approve it either. I'll vote if needed, but faust is the better choice today.I refuse to vote mail-mi if the only reason is Galz saying "Well he's probably a Role Cop for some reason that I won't tell everyone". I mean, sure mail-mi isn't always here, but he hasn't done anything terribly scummy that should make him the lynch for today. I mean, I'll go along with it if we need one more vote or whatever, but I'd much rather lynch faust today.That's such a scummy thing to say!
I was just agreeing that he is lurking. I don't really get the whole Role Cop thing.Heck yeah it is! How's that for conflicting views? But more seriously, I wouldn't necessary be opposed to the lynch (he IS lurking), but I don't really approve it either. I'll vote if needed, but faust is the better choice today.I refuse to vote mail-mi if the only reason is Galz saying "Well he's probably a Role Cop for some reason that I won't tell everyone". I mean, sure mail-mi isn't always here, but he hasn't done anything terribly scummy that should make him the lynch for today. I mean, I'll go along with it if we need one more vote or whatever, but I'd much rather lynch faust today.That's such a scummy thing to say!
ohmygodthecaseonmail-miissomuchmorethanlurking
I was just agreeing that he is lurking. I don't really get the whole Role Cop thing.
The only other point that I can see brought up by Galzria is about mail-mi's slip about not lynching Galzria. And I guess I can see it. Mail-mi has slipped up big time when scum before, but I don't know if this is him slipping up or not. Another thing that scares me is Faust voting for mail-mi and the speed at which the wagon grew. I'll go back to his 'slip' and read it in context.I was just agreeing that he is lurking. I don't really get the whole Role Cop thing.
What do you think of the other points that have been raised about mail-mi?
Heck yeah it is! How's that for conflicting views? But more seriously, I wouldn't necessary be opposed to the lynch (he IS lurking), but I don't really approve it either. I'll vote if needed, but faust is the better choice today.I refuse to vote mail-mi if the only reason is Galz saying "Well he's probably a Role Cop for some reason that I won't tell everyone". I mean, sure mail-mi isn't always here, but he hasn't done anything terribly scummy that should make him the lynch for today. I mean, I'll go along with it if we need one more vote or whatever, but I'd much rather lynch faust today.That's such a scummy thing to say!
ohmygodthecaseonmail-miissomuchmorethanlurking
Heck yeah it is! How's that for conflicting views? But more seriously, I wouldn't necessary be opposed to the lynch (he IS lurking), but I don't really approve it either. I'll vote if needed, but faust is the better choice today.I refuse to vote mail-mi if the only reason is Galz saying "Well he's probably a Role Cop for some reason that I won't tell everyone". I mean, sure mail-mi isn't always here, but he hasn't done anything terribly scummy that should make him the lynch for today. I mean, I'll go along with it if we need one more vote or whatever, but I'd much rather lynch faust today.That's such a scummy thing to say!
ohmygodthecaseonmail-miissomuchmorethanlurking
ohmygodthentellmewhatitisbecauseIHAVENOCLUE
I don't have time to reread mail-mi right now, but I wanted to chime in that this seems crazy to me. We're lynching mail-mi for a mystery scum slip?
This seems like a bad plan to me, but I have nothing to say in mail-mi's defense. He is one of my scummier reads so I'm okay with this.
I will reread tonight when I get home, and hopefully it will make sense, but can Galz and Robz at least promise to explain themselves after mail-mi's flip. Post an explanation in your neighbourhood that way if one of you dies tonight the other can post it in here.
Also, I get why Galzria is probably town, but why is Robz being painted with the same brush? His actions have been all over the map for me, and I don't view him as particularly towny at this point in the game.
I also don't get what's up with Galzria and Robz. Why do they trust each other so much? They shouldn't know each others' alignments. Yet, this seems like they have complete, 100% trust in one another, which seems off.
Why though? Why would you want to do that? This reads like you trying to subtly push the lynch while keeping your own hands clean.Heck yeah it is! How's that for conflicting views? But more seriously, I wouldn't necessary be opposed to the lynch (he IS lurking), but I don't really approve it either. I'll vote if needed, but faust is the better choice today.I refuse to vote mail-mi if the only reason is Galz saying "Well he's probably a Role Cop for some reason that I won't tell everyone". I mean, sure mail-mi isn't always here, but he hasn't done anything terribly scummy that should make him the lynch for today. I mean, I'll go along with it if we need one more vote or whatever, but I'd much rather lynch faust today.That's such a scummy thing to say!
I also don't get what's up with Galzria and Robz. Why do they trust each other so much? They shouldn't know each others' alignments. Yet, this seems like they have complete, 100% trust in one another, which seems off.
Galz has clearly shared the case with Robz in their QT. Nothing about that is "off" to me.
Voltaire, I am asking you to please not move your vote, even if you have to leave. I think it is important that the pressure on mail-mi hits L-1.
No problem Voltgloss, I take it this is you requesting me to do this to get a claim out of him?
I found mail-mi sheeping my reads post especially damning because he didn't indicate that those reads were originally mine. I'd be more comfortable with him quoting me and saying "this makes sense, I agree", but what happened read to me as mail-mi trying to fake original content (rather poorly).
Right, ok. I didn't vote yet because I wanted to see and analyze his reaction first. Needing him to be at L-1 for that seems a bit artificial, but I'll vote:mail-mi. It's conflicting, I want to be a good townie and analyze mail-mi's response first, but obviously the lynch is very favorable for me as a survivor as long as it isn't me.No problem Voltgloss, I take it this is you requesting me to do this to get a claim out of him?
Take it as me requesting you put your vote where your mouth is. You already said you are OK with this lynch.
Found mail-mi's post. I guess with looking at the game as it is now, that is a slip. And I guess Galzria has some master plan, so vote:mail-miUGH. I had a thought, and typed it up hurriedly in the bathroom at school. So what I made a few wording mistakes?!?!? And if I was scum, why would I want galz lynched when my "partner" shraeye was enabled?!?!?
War. No. You said you didn't want Galz lynched.Found mail-mi's post. I guess with looking at the game as it is now, that is a slip. And I guess Galzria has some master plan, so vote:mail-miUGH. I had a thought, and typed it up hurriedly in the bathroom at school. So what I made a few wording mistakes?!?!? And if I was scum, why would I want galz lynched when my "partner" shraeye was enabled?!?!?
Found mail-mi's post. I guess with looking at the game as it is now, that is a slip. And I guess Galzria has some master plan, so vote:mail-miUGH. I had a thought, and typed it up hurriedly in the bathroom at school. So what I made a few wording mistakes?!?!? And if I was scum, why would I want galz lynched when my "partner" shraeye was enabled?!?!?
War= whatWar. No. You said you didn't want Galz lynched.Found mail-mi's post. I guess with looking at the game as it is now, that is a slip. And I guess Galzria has some master plan, so vote:mail-miUGH. I had a thought, and typed it up hurriedly in the bathroom at school. So what I made a few wording mistakes?!?!? And if I was scum, why would I want galz lynched when my "partner" shraeye was enabled?!?!?
I was voting for Dsell at the time.I found mail-mi sheeping my reads post especially damning because he didn't indicate that those reads were originally mine. I'd be more comfortable with him quoting me and saying "this makes sense, I agree", but what happened read to me as mail-mi trying to fake original content (rather poorly).
I coulda sworn that the only part of your reads post I sheeped was the galz-robz-Dsell group, and I took it further by saying that out of robz Dsell the later was scummier.
And more specifically, that'd it be bad for scum.War. No. You said you didn't want Galz lynched.Found mail-mi's post. I guess with looking at the game as it is now, that is a slip. And I guess Galzria has some master plan, so vote:mail-miUGH. I had a thought, and typed it up hurriedly in the bathroom at school. So what I made a few wording mistakes?!?!? And if I was scum, why would I want galz lynched when my "partner" shraeye was enabled?!?!?
I am Dylan, and once at night I can give a HUGE T-shirt to someone to roleblock them. No last name was given, and I haven't seen either show so I don't know what it is.
Well then read the other part of my responce.And more specifically, that'd it be bad for scum.War. No. You said you didn't want Galz lynched.Found mail-mi's post. I guess with looking at the game as it is now, that is a slip. And I guess Galzria has some master plan, so vote:mail-miUGH. I had a thought, and typed it up hurriedly in the bathroom at school. So what I made a few wording mistakes?!?!? And if I was scum, why would I want galz lynched when my "partner" shraeye was enabled?!?!?
I am Dylan, and once at night I can give a HUGE T-shirt to someone to roleblock them. No last name was given, and I haven't seen either show so I don't know what it is.While I'd personally love a claimed roleblocker alive (volunteer for being a target), I see no reason to believe this generally a scum role would be on town here. Is your role compulsory to use? Who have you targeted this far?
I looked up which show he was from. The first link on Google said "Dylan-Modern Family." Or something to that effect.I am Dylan, and once at night I can give a HUGE T-shirt to someone to roleblock them. No last name was given, and I haven't seen either show so I don't know what it is.
Wait, so how did you flavor claim?!?!? I would vote you over this if I wasn't now.
Who did you roleblock last night?No one. I'm 1-shot
See above.I am Dylan, and once at night I can give a HUGE T-shirt to someone to roleblock them. No last name was given, and I haven't seen either show so I don't know what it is.While I'd personally love a claimed roleblocker alive (volunteer for being a target), I see no reason to believe this generally a scum role would be on town here. Is your role compulsory to use? Who have you targeted this far?
With multiple cop-types around, it makes good balancing sense for scum to have a roleblocker.But would I, as scum, claim my scum role? No.
With a Forced Claim Cop (remember xeiron?), it makes PERFECT sense for scum to have a roleblocker. That's how you (as scum) deal with a claimed Cop, when the possibility of Doctoring out there somewhere: you roleblock them.
mail-mi: What are your reads?When I get to a computer. But Faust is scum.
With multiple cop-types around, it makes good balancing sense for scum to have a roleblocker.But would I, as scum, claim my scum role? No.
With a Forced Claim Cop (remember xeiron?), it makes PERFECT sense for scum to have a roleblocker. That's how you (as scum) deal with a claimed Cop, when the possibility of Doctoring out there somewhere: you roleblock them.
With multiple cop-types around, it makes good balancing sense for scum to have a roleblocker.But would I, as scum, claim my scum role? No.
With a Forced Claim Cop (remember xeiron?), it makes PERFECT sense for scum to have a roleblocker. That's how you (as scum) deal with a claimed Cop, when the possibility of Doctoring out there somewhere: you roleblock them.
So like, where do we go from here? Are we going to wait for Galz/Robz to claim what they saw? I would absolutely like to have them say it.
Remember when you were a compulsive D1 or 2 Gladiator in LOTR 2? Yeah.With multiple cop-types around, it makes good balancing sense for scum to have a roleblocker.But would I, as scum, claim my scum role? No.
With a Forced Claim Cop (remember xeiron?), it makes PERFECT sense for scum to have a roleblocker. That's how you (as scum) deal with a claimed Cop, when the possibility of Doctoring out there somewhere: you roleblock them.
Remember when I was Gladiator in LOTR 2? Yeah.
Remember when you were a compulsive D1 or 2 Gladiator in LOTR 2? Yeah.With multiple cop-types around, it makes good balancing sense for scum to have a roleblocker.But would I, as scum, claim my scum role? No.
With a Forced Claim Cop (remember xeiron?), it makes PERFECT sense for scum to have a roleblocker. That's how you (as scum) deal with a claimed Cop, when the possibility of Doctoring out there somewhere: you roleblock them.
Remember when I was Gladiator in LOTR 2? Yeah.
But whisperer is usually a town role. Roleblocker isn't.With multiple cop-types around, it makes good balancing sense for scum to have a roleblocker.But would I, as scum, claim my scum role? No.
With a Forced Claim Cop (remember xeiron?), it makes PERFECT sense for scum to have a roleblocker. That's how you (as scum) deal with a claimed Cop, when the possibility of Doctoring out there somewhere: you roleblock them.
(I did in RMM6...)
Remember when you were a compulsive D1 or 2 Gladiator in LOTR 2? Yeah.With multiple cop-types around, it makes good balancing sense for scum to have a roleblocker.But would I, as scum, claim my scum role? No.
With a Forced Claim Cop (remember xeiron?), it makes PERFECT sense for scum to have a roleblocker. That's how you (as scum) deal with a claimed Cop, when the possibility of Doctoring out there somewhere: you roleblock them.
Remember when I was Gladiator in LOTR 2? Yeah.
What's your point? That's exactly what I was, and exactly what I claimed. I just didn't claim my alignment (scum).
Speaking of claims: mail-mi, why did you support massclaim?Because 2/3 of town had already claimed, and them I could use my singular Roleblock more effectively.
sudgy, how do you know what mail-mi's point is? That's not what I thought he was saying at all.
sudgy, how do you know what mail-mi's point is? That's not what I thought he was saying at all.That was my point.
I haven't seen the shows, but it says in my PM that i win when all threats to the Study Group are eliminated.No one had explicitly stated this before mail-mi.
Speaking of claims: mail-mi, why did you support massclaim?Because 2/3 of town had already claimed, and them I could use my singular Roleblock more effectively.
I have had a thought that contradicts Galz and Robz's assumptions, but not sure if/how to share it. I don't even know if I have the right post in mind!
If I have the right post in mind, then we do we want him to post anything more?I have had a thought that contradicts Galz and Robz's assumptions, but not sure if/how to share it. I don't even know if I have the right post in mind!
Let's hold off for now.
I would like to wait for mail-mi to get to a computer and give his reads.
mail-mi said his name wasn't on the list of characters. Is that true?
If I have the right post in mind, then we do we want him to post anything more?I have had a thought that contradicts Galz and Robz's assumptions, but not sure if/how to share it. I don't even know if I have the right post in mind!
Let's hold off for now.
I would like to wait for mail-mi to get to a computer and give his reads.
mail-mi said his name wasn't on the list of characters. Is that true?I checked, not there.
also suggests innocence.If I have the right post in mind, then we do we want him to post anything more?I have had a thought that contradicts Galz and Robz's assumptions, but not sure if/how to share it. I don't even know if I have the right post in mind!
Let's hold off for now.
I would like to wait for mail-mi to get to a computer and give his reads.
Mrrrg. I know, I know, I am grappling with this too.
also suggests innocence.If I have the right post in mind, then we do we want him to post anything more?I have had a thought that contradicts Galz and Robz's assumptions, but not sure if/how to share it. I don't even know if I have the right post in mind!
Let's hold off for now.
I would like to wait for mail-mi to get to a computer and give his reads.
Mrrrg. I know, I know, I am grappling with this too.
There's no real case without the rolecop accusation.
also suggests innocence.If I have the right post in mind, then we do we want him to post anything more?I have had a thought that contradicts Galz and Robz's assumptions, but not sure if/how to share it. I don't even know if I have the right post in mind!
Let's hold off for now.
I would like to wait for mail-mi to get to a computer and give his reads.
Mrrrg. I know, I know, I am grappling with this too.
Of being Role Cop. Not necessarily of being scum.
Galz, you are on. How do you want to proceed?
That's as much as I can say in explaining the 'slip'. I can't tell you exactly what it was, because if he's in fact exactly what I believe then I would be providing his scummates with the very information I'm trying to prevent them from having. It may well be too late regardless, but this was the best way we (Robz and I) could think to present this given what we (believe) saw.
Galz, a question for you: Have you read LOTR 2? Are you familiar with that game? This is relevant.
The 'slip' in question is one that demonstrates a certain knowledge on Mail-Mi's part. A knowledge that I don't honestly believe that he would, in the moment, just happen to know.
That's as much as I can say in explaining the 'slip'. I can't tell you exactly what it was, because if he's in fact exactly what I believe then I would be providing his scummates with the very information I'm trying to prevent them from having. It may well be too late regardless, but this was the best way we (Robz and I) could think to present this given what we (believe) saw.
This is exactly what I was thinking. I am ok with it not getting explained, pending Voltgloss not being on the same page.
It's nice to be able to say something with confidence!That's as much as I can say in explaining the 'slip'. I can't tell you exactly what it was, because if he's in fact exactly what I believe then I would be providing his scummates with the very information I'm trying to prevent them from having. It may well be too late regardless, but this was the best way we (Robz and I) could think to present this given what we (believe) saw.
This is exactly what I was thinking. I am ok with it not getting explained, pending Voltgloss not being on the same page.
Actually...if it's what I think it is, there would be no downside at all about talking about it. So I can say with confidence I do not know what this is.
I think mail-mi should be lynched before he can get another word in.* Will be back with more thoughts later.
*Galz, check our QT.
I think mail-mi should be lynched before he can get another word in.* Will be back with more thoughts later.
*Galz, check our QT.
I do like that Voltgloss gets to hold the hammer here.
I think mail-mi should be lynched before he can get another word in.* Will be back with more thoughts later.No, I shouldn't. My sister is almost done with her homework on the computer.
*Galz, check our QT.
Robz, are you familiar with LOTR 2?
Robz, are you familiar with LOTR 2?
Nope, not remotely. Just played ROT1.
Robz, are you familiar with LOTR 2?
Nope, not remotely. Just played ROT1.
I mean LOTR1.
Robz, are you familiar with LOTR 2?
Nope, not remotely. Just played ROT1.
I mean LOTR1.
Robz, go give LOTR 2 a targeted search (print screen, ctrl-F) for what's at issue here, and note that mail-mi, shraeye, and I were scumpartners.
OK, Caught up.1. RVS, man. (Stands for Random Voting Stage--It was a joke.) 2. I am a STUDY GROUP 1-shot Roleblocker. 3. I am NOT a scum 1-shot Roleblocker. Srsly, these are worse reasons than I usually come up with.
I'm going to unvote (mail-mi still remains at L-1)
I'm fine with the mail-mi lynch. There's a lot already mentioned that could make him look scummy. I'll also point out that he himself threw the first scum accusation (at me!) - in fact, it was his very first post when the game started. I'll also just note that in his claim, he never explicitly stated if he was town or not, simple that he had a role blocking ability. When pressed, he doesn't deny being scum with that ability, but simply posits that scum!mail-mi would not have admitted the ability at all if he were scum. When I'm playing scum in a deception game like this, my favorite way to lie is to state half-facts, so actually I do think that this is an entirely plausible thing for scum to do.
Robz, are you familiar with LOTR 2?
Nope, not remotely. Just played ROT1.
I mean LOTR1.
Robz, go give LOTR 2 a targeted search (print screen, ctrl-F) for what's at issue here, and note that mail-mi, shraeye, and I were scumpartners.
I'm waiting for Galz to say whether he concurs with me--I suspect he will--but yes, our specific, secret case against mail-mi seems to have been erroneous. Thanks for helping, Voltgloss.Good. Now will you please get off of this mislynch and vote for mr. scum, aka Faust?
I'm waiting for Galz to say whether he concurs with me--I suspect he will--but yes, our specific, secret case against mail-mi seems to have been erroneous. Thanks for helping, Voltgloss.Good. Now will you please get off of this mislynch and vote for mr. scum, aka Faust?
I'm waiting for Galz to say whether he concurs with me--I suspect he will--but yes, our specific, secret case against mail-mi seems to have been erroneous. Thanks for helping, Voltgloss.Good. Now will you please get off of this mislynch and vote for mr. scum, aka Faust?
It's scummy but I'm not scum! scumtell, he doesn't feel the same as NMIV, early-bus shraeye then townread, it's D2 of a 21 man game, he's our best shot. Why are (were) you so convinced of Voltaire?I'm waiting for Galz to say whether he concurs with me--I suspect he will--but yes, our specific, secret case against mail-mi seems to have been erroneous. Thanks for helping, Voltgloss.Good. Now will you please get off of this mislynch and vote for mr. scum, aka Faust?
Why are you so certain faust is scum?
Addition: jumping reads.It's scummy but I'm not scum! scumtell, he doesn't feel the same as NMIV, early-bus shraeye then townread, it's D2 of a 21 man game, he's our best shot. Why are (were) you so convinced of Voltaire?I'm waiting for Galz to say whether he concurs with me--I suspect he will--but yes, our specific, secret case against mail-mi seems to have been erroneous. Thanks for helping, Voltgloss.Good. Now will you please get off of this mislynch and vote for mr. scum, aka Faust?
Why are you so certain faust is scum?
Addition: jumping reads.It's scummy but I'm not scum! scumtell, he doesn't feel the same as NMIV, early-bus shraeye then townread, it's D2 of a 21 man game, he's our best shot. Why are (were) you so convinced of Voltaire?I'm waiting for Galz to say whether he concurs with me--I suspect he will--but yes, our specific, secret case against mail-mi seems to have been erroneous. Thanks for helping, Voltgloss.Good. Now will you please get off of this mislynch and vote for mr. scum, aka Faust?
Why are you so certain faust is scum?
Why are (were) you so convinced of Voltaire?
The evidence against Voltaire, based on his own statements, given here for the final time, because I'm sick of saying it.
Here is where he has his moment of truth driven by his frustration toward me:Voltgloss, nay. I will not move to EFHW, given my re-read of her and VOltaire's support of it.
Seriously dude, what if there's two scum teams? Stop tunneling me. I think she's scum. Even if you think I'm scum that doesn't mean you shouldn't vote for her.
Day 2 begins, and he immediately starts gloating about how sure he was that shraeye was scum. Also some town cheerleading that seems fake and premature:Hey, I'm always right about shraeye! (because of confirmation bias, shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh) so that's cool. Unfortunately I was also right about mcmc. But that's fine.
Is Galz an IC now? Unless someone else claims Enabler, that's how I see it.
I'll need to re-read with our flips now. I actually feel really freaking good about town's chances right now.Oh and also, whats this "I was right about shraeye!" nonsense?
Directed at Voltaire^
Wasn't I the first to be suspicious of him? And then I pointed out he scumlurked his way out of suspicion? And Galz said I was changing the subject? It feels nice to be right. Not like I was 100% sure obviously.
I agree TA feels off. Disappointed we're moving even closer to full flavor claiming again.
Here's where he assumes a 5-man scum team, something you can really only assume if you are yourself the Serial Killer. I agree, by the way, that a 5-man scum team is a fine guess even to make even from a non-Serial Killer, by the way. So this would not be an incriminating statement in and of itself. However it fits the other things.I'm sorry, what case? All I see is me being PoE'd by Galz. Did I miss a case being made on me?
Note that I am also POEing you. That's the case on you.
I don't want to lynch you today because shraeye came after you. Could have been an attempt to give both of you cred. But in a 5-man scum team (my assumption until something proves otherwise), not everyone on the team will have bussed everyone.
These statements come amidst a general strategy of relentlessly sheeping the IC and being pro-active and pro-town. This is, I think, a good strategy for the Serial Killer--always stay on the IC's good side, and do legitimate scum hunting. And Voltaire is a good player, he can do these things well and appear townie.
And again, we know that one of these three things are true:
1. There is a non-mafia scum faction
2. There is a Vig who shot on Night 1
3. Something weird and unpredictable killed shraeye, like a latent ability like bocaj claims to have
Option 3 is of course possible, but should probably just be discounted, because we already know of someone who does this, and that person admitted it publicly, and shraeye probably wouldn't have targeted him then.
So, Option 2 or Option 1. For Option 2 to have happened, someone ignored my oft-repeated insistence never to shoot night 1 as Vig. I wouldn't be surprised if someone did that but I would be surprised if Voltaire did that, because he's a fairly competent player. And I think Voltaire very likely to have killed shraeye for the reasons he himself pointed out.
Therefore, Option 1 seems exceedingly likely.
It's not ironclad. It's pretty strong though, I'm surprised it's getting like zero support.
K thnxWhy are (were) you so convinced of Voltaire?The evidence against Voltaire, based on his own statements, given here for the final time, because I'm sick of saying it.
Here is where he has his moment of truth driven by his frustration toward me:Voltgloss, nay. I will not move to EFHW, given my re-read of her and VOltaire's support of it.
Seriously dude, what if there's two scum teams? Stop tunneling me. I think she's scum. Even if you think I'm scum that doesn't mean you shouldn't vote for her.
Day 2 begins, and he immediately starts gloating about how sure he was that shraeye was scum. Also some town cheerleading that seems fake and premature:Hey, I'm always right about shraeye! (because of confirmation bias, shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh) so that's cool. Unfortunately I was also right about mcmc. But that's fine.
Is Galz an IC now? Unless someone else claims Enabler, that's how I see it.
I'll need to re-read with our flips now. I actually feel really freaking good about town's chances right now.Oh and also, whats this "I was right about shraeye!" nonsense?
Directed at Voltaire^
Wasn't I the first to be suspicious of him? And then I pointed out he scumlurked his way out of suspicion? And Galz said I was changing the subject? It feels nice to be right. Not like I was 100% sure obviously.
I agree TA feels off. Disappointed we're moving even closer to full flavor claiming again.
Here's where he assumes a 5-man scum team, something you can really only assume if you are yourself the Serial Killer. I agree, by the way, that a 5-man scum team is a fine guess even to make even from a non-Serial Killer, by the way. So this would not be an incriminating statement in and of itself. However it fits the other things.I'm sorry, what case? All I see is me being PoE'd by Galz. Did I miss a case being made on me?
Note that I am also POEing you. That's the case on you.
I don't want to lynch you today because shraeye came after you. Could have been an attempt to give both of you cred. But in a 5-man scum team (my assumption until something proves otherwise), not everyone on the team will have bussed everyone.
These statements come amidst a general strategy of relentlessly sheeping the IC and being pro-active and pro-town. This is, I think, a good strategy for the Serial Killer--always stay on the IC's good side, and do legitimate scum hunting. And Voltaire is a good player, he can do these things well and appear townie.
And again, we know that one of these three things are true:
1. There is a non-mafia scum faction
2. There is a Vig who shot on Night 1
3. Something weird and unpredictable killed shraeye, like a latent ability like bocaj claims to have
Option 3 is of course possible, but should probably just be discounted, because we already know of someone who does this, and that person admitted it publicly, and shraeye probably wouldn't have targeted him then.
So, Option 2 or Option 1. For Option 2 to have happened, someone ignored my oft-repeated insistence never to shoot night 1 as Vig. I wouldn't be surprised if someone did that but I would be surprised if Voltaire did that, because he's a fairly competent player. And I think Voltaire very likely to have killed shraeye for the reasons he himself pointed out.
Therefore, Option 1 seems exceedingly likely.
It's not ironclad. It's pretty strong though, I'm surprised it's getting like zero support.
I'm waiting for Galz to say whether he concurs with me--I suspect he will--but yes, our specific, secret case against mail-mi seems to have been erroneous. Thanks for helping, Voltgloss.
I'm waiting for Galz to say whether he concurs with me--I suspect he will--but yes, our specific, secret case against mail-mi seems to have been erroneous. Thanks for helping, Voltgloss.
OK, now can somebody explain what the hell happened? :P Or is still super-secret even if it was likely erroneous?
Yes. I hope you guys explain post-game if you don't now.
I am a STUDY GROUP 1-shot Roleblocker.
I am a STUDY GROUP 1-shot Roleblocker.
Vote: mail-mi Vote: mail-mi Vote: mail-mi Vote: mail-mi Vote: mail-mi
My PM says that I'm a "hospital administration intern (3-shot captained doctor [I just noticed that I was 3-shot, eep!])" (I'm assuming this is okay to quote this, it's in my role name). It NEVER mentioned Study Group other than in my win condition.
I am a STUDY GROUP 1-shot Roleblocker.
Vote: mail-mi Vote: mail-mi Vote: mail-mi Vote: mail-mi Vote: mail-mi
My PM says that I'm a "hospital administration intern (3-shot captained doctor [I just noticed that I was 3-shot, eep!])" (I'm assuming this is okay to quote this, it's in my role name). It NEVER mentioned Study Group other than in my win condition.
I'll admit, I'm just confused, but I read his "STUDY GROUP" line as a reply to my suspicion over him never actually claiming to be study group.
Players:
1. Eevee--Is a survivor or scum.
2. Robz888--Is horribly wrong on me, have a null-to-slightly-scummy read.
3. Voltgloss - Lily Tucker-Pritchett, Innocent Child
4. mail-mi--TOWN (this clear enough for ya, bocaJ?)
5. chairs--Actions don't make sense, explanations do. Mostly town.
6. Twistedarcher--Different than normal, and semi-defending me, like in RMM8, where he was scum and I town. Slight scum.
7.shraeye- Luke Dunphy, Magician (Enabled Ninja Mafia Goon) - Killed N1
8. Galzria--Done some good things, done some bad things (hidden case on me.) Nullish
9. Voltaire--My read fluctuates here all the time. Null
10.Mcmcsalot- Jeff Winger, Study Group Leader (Day Lynchproofer and Night Captain) - Lynched D1
11. Sudgy--Doctor claim makes no sense, most likely liar out of claimers. Slight scum.
12. EFHW--Nullish-to-slight-scummy
13. WalrusMcFishSr-- Townie-nullish, mostly becasue of claim and high-content posts.
14. ahoppy--Lurking a lot, but just moved and very high in content. Townish
15. Archetype--Null
16.nkirbit- Jay Pritchett, Mean Father-in-Law (Macho Townie) - Killed N1
17. Dsell--2nd highest scum read, comes from Voltaire stuff.
18. bocaJ--Null, claim was believable, but of course that could still come from scum, and lurking.
19. Faust--IS SCUM.
20.xeiron- Shirley Bennett, Moral Compass (Forced-Claim Cop) - Modkilled D1
21.Liopoil>>> Jorbles--Jorbles is null, and liopoil wasn't very scummy, a little bit.
Players:
1. Eevee--Is a survivor or scum.
2. Robz888--Is horribly wrong on me, have a null-to-slightly-scummy read.
3. Voltgloss - Lily Tucker-Pritchett, Innocent Child
4. mail-mi--TOWN (this clear enough for ya, bocaJ?)
5. chairs--Actions don't make sense, explanations do. Mostly town.
6. Twistedarcher--Different than normal, and semi-defending me, like in RMM8, where he was scum and I town. Slight scum.
7.shraeye- Luke Dunphy, Magician (Enabled Ninja Mafia Goon) - Killed N1
8. Galzria--Done some good things, done some bad things (hidden case on me.) Nullish
9. Voltaire--My read fluctuates here all the time. Null
10.Mcmcsalot- Jeff Winger, Study Group Leader (Day Lynchproofer and Night Captain) - Lynched D1
11. Sudgy--Doctor claim makes no sense, most likely liar out of claimers. Slight scum.
12. EFHW--Nullish-to-slight-scummy
13. WalrusMcFishSr-- Townie-nullish, mostly becasue of claim and high-content posts.
14. ahoppy--Lurking a lot, but just moved and very high in content. Townish
15. Archetype--Null
16.nkirbit- Jay Pritchett, Mean Father-in-Law (Macho Townie) - Killed N1
17. Dsell--2nd highest scum read, comes from Voltaire stuff.
18. bocaJ--Null, claim was believable, but of course that could still come from scum, and lurking.
19. Faust--IS SCUM.
20.xeiron- Shirley Bennett, Moral Compass (Forced-Claim Cop) - Modkilled D1
21.Liopoil>>> Jorbles--Jorbles is null, and liopoil wasn't very scummy, a little bit.
You really only have 3 town reads?
Ok, whatever, but this is seriously going to cloud my ability to have anywhere close to a decent read on mail-mi for the rest of the game. The fact that there's an entire case on him that I didn't know that happened then isn't true is going to make this damn difficult. If we lose this game because I don't lynch mail-mi over what happened eventually, I am going to be so upset.
This game is difficult enough when I have scum hiding information from me. When town does it too, it's near impossible. You and Robz are so much scummier to me now. I have now wasted my life re-reading mail-mi 4 times today because someone couldn't freaking say what was going on and I am NOT happy about it.
backwards jacob/mail-mi scumbuddies?I am a STUDY GROUP 1-shot Roleblocker.
Vote: mail-mi Vote: mail-mi Vote: mail-mi Vote: mail-mi Vote: mail-mi
My PM says that I'm a "hospital administration intern (3-shot captained doctor [I just noticed that I was 3-shot, eep!])" (I'm assuming this is okay to quote this, it's in my role name). It NEVER mentioned Study Group other than in my win condition.
I'll admit, I'm just confused, but I read his "STUDY GROUP" line as a reply to my suspicion over him never actually claiming to be study group.
Does anybody else have a character with no last name? Does mail's character in the show?Nope.
My PM does not specify Study Group in the role name either. It's just part of my wincon. If Mail added it, I want to know exactly why.
Voltgloss, I haven't done the things you asked me to do yet, but I trust Robz judgement on his agreement. I know what you're saying though. My only question is, do you believe, in THAT MOMENT, given word for word exactly what was said, Mail Mi's response was within reason? If so, then I'll accept that. I would HATE for him to be scum that gets away though. :P
Ok, whatever, but this is seriously going to cloud my ability to have anywhere close to a decent read on mail-mi for the rest of the game. The fact that there's an entire case on him that I didn't know that happened then isn't true is going to make this damn difficult. If we lose this game because I don't lynch mail-mi over what happened eventually, I am going to be so upset.
This game is difficult enough when I have scum hiding information from me. When town does it too, it's near impossible. You and Robz are so much scummier to me now. I have now wasted my life re-reading mail-mi 4 times today because someone couldn't freaking say what was going on and I am NOT happy about it.
Does anybody else have a character with no last name? Does mail's character in the show?Nope.
My PM does not specify Study Group in the role name either. It's just part of my wincon. If Mail added it, I want to know exactly why.
Do you want me to flavor claim right now? It'll save more time than running me up to L-1, having me full claim, everyone going OH SHOOT and then unvoting (Or Volt being stubborn and suggest a hammer). It won't confirm what power I am (I don't think so anyways), but if someone else claimed this flavor name, I'd be surprised if they were scum.
Unless theory is playing tricks on us, then no. Still Archetype.Does anybody else have a character with no last name? Does mail's character in the show?Nope.
My PM does not specify Study Group in the role name either. It's just part of my wincon. If Mail added it, I want to know exactly why.
Do you want me to flavor claim right now? It'll save more time than running me up to L-1, having me full claim, everyone going OH SHOOT and then unvoting (Or Volt being stubborn and suggest a hammer). It won't confirm what power I am (I don't think so anyways), but if someone else claimed this flavor name, I'd be surprised if they were scum.
Arch, what in the world prompted this? Did your name become "mail-mi" when I wasn't looking?
The "mystery case" should simply be ignored. mail-mi COULD still be scum. The fact that the "mystery case" turned out to be in error does not make mail-mi town.It's hard to ignore something that takes up at least 5 pages of discussion.
The "mystery case" should simply be ignored. mail-mi COULD still be scum. The fact that the "mystery case" turned out to be in error does not make mail-mi town.It's hard to ignore something that takes up at least 5 pages of discussion.
Given the amount of secret information that is being sent around, I'm just going to proxy my vote to Voltgloss. I don't feel like I'm really contributing to scum hunting anyways.
Oh boy oh boy oh boy
I'm Manny Delgado. The suave romantic somethingorother. I get my secondary win if someone says they'll go to the poetry slam. Which TA did. (Thanks!) I'm from modern family.
I'm Manny Delgado! Have you seen the show? There's no way he could be scum!Oh boy oh boy oh boy
I'm Manny Delgado. The suave romantic somethingorother. I get my secondary win if someone says they'll go to the poetry slam. Which TA did. (Thanks!) I'm from modern family.
...What about this is supposed to convince us you aren't scum?
I'm Manny Delgado! Have you seen the show? There's no way he could be scum!Oh boy oh boy oh boy
I'm Manny Delgado. The suave romantic somethingorother. I get my secondary win if someone says they'll go to the poetry slam. Which TA did. (Thanks!) I'm from modern family.
...What about this is supposed to convince us you aren't scum?
Aw wait. shraeye was Luke Dunphy, and he's someone I wouldn't expect to be scum either.
Never mind, this really doesn't prove anything. Carry on.
I'm Manny Delgado! Have you seen the show? There's no way he could be scum!Oh boy oh boy oh boy
I'm Manny Delgado. The suave romantic somethingorother. I get my secondary win if someone says they'll go to the poetry slam. Which TA did. (Thanks!) I'm from modern family.
...What about this is supposed to convince us you aren't scum?
I read mail-mi's "STUDY GROUP" comment the same way bocaJ does: as a (fairly annoyed) response to bocaJ's "hey he didn't specifically claim to be town so maybe he's scum" suggestion. mail-mi referred to himself as a "STUDY GROUP 1-shot roleblocker" the same way that, in a usual game, one would refer to themselves as a "TOWN 1-shot roleblocker."
sudgy, I get that it's really exciting to feel like you've caught scum in an inexcusable slip. But this isn't that slip. Any more than nkirbit's "slip" was a slip on Day 1.
The way he said it, it seemed like it was part of his role. He would've said "I'm from the Study Group" or something, not saying his role.
I'll take ashersky's big text as advice to hurry the heck up.
I'm very tenoted to vote Mcmcsalot. I almost always find EFHW Towny and Mcmcsalot scummy, so that probably has something to do with it. But yet I don't feel like its the smart thing to do. Can't quite put my finger on it though. I'll follow his lynch if my vote is needed.
But at this point I'd be up for a TA lunch personally. I tried to not sheep everyone else and found Twistedarcher different for not posting as frequently and about everything and anything under the sun as he normally does. But since Lord Voltgloss III doesn't like his lunch, I doubt it's happening today.
So I guess that brings me back to Mcmcsalot. Vote:Mcmcsalot. Even if he is lurking town, I don't mind him gone. He's not really furthering discussion anyway.
I just realized that sounded really mean mcmcsalot. I meant in the context of the game. I understand you're busy but if you are town, I'd rather have an active Towny alive than a non active one.
I also disagree with Robz about sheeping the IC. I think that in a game this large scum is more likely to lurk than post a lot and back up Voltgloss. But I guess that depends on the players play style, but in general I feel scum would lurk. And now I realize I'm rehashing what was said earlier. But there's my outdated opinion.
Archetype would be a fine lynch. Better than mcmc or EFHW. Roughly equivalent to chairs. Not sure if preferred to lio.I agree that I am 'sucking up to the IC' because A) it's Voltgloss and B) I can trust his opinions a heckuva lot more than I can trust everyone else's.
He is also QUITE deferential to the IC--way more than I had remembered. He proposes flavor claiming. He does the "that suck" after xeiron is killed, which some people say is a scumtell, although I've never been sure if it actually is. Not very much content and super lurky. Also cautious, I think. Safe opinions, safe votes. Lots of "this is why I am doing this" type things.
I disagree about my 'safe choices'. When Galz claimed, I was one of the first to say 'This guy is totally town what the heck are you guys doing' and when nkirbit 'scumslipped' I was one of the few to defend him by pointing out that it was legitimate frustration. Both times, these were going against the majority's opinion.
Without getting into my "town reads": yes, Robz is among the list of people I do not think we should lynch today. That list consists of:Commenting on this: I can see how most of the players ended up on the "no lynch"-list, which is mostly for their claims. I don't know about sudgy, because even if he's telling the truth, he's just a VT, and I'm not sure how Jorbles earned his place, might be because shraeye voted for him. But I'm fine with not lynching both of them today.
Robz888
chairs
Galzria
Voltaire
sudgy
Walrus
AHoppy
Jorbles
That leaves the following as, in my view, potential lynches for today:
Eevee
mail-mi
Twistedarcher
EFHW
Archetype
Dsell
bocaJ
faust
Do not read anything into the orders of these players. In each list, players are listed simply in the order they appear in the intro post.
Yeah. The first of those - the question to Galz - is something I had completely forgotten about until I saw it during my reread.
Also, on the question I posed myself when summarizing Day 1 Arch:Archetype would be a fine lynch. Better than mcmc or EFHW. Roughly equivalent to chairs. Not sure if preferred to lio.I agree that I am 'sucking up to the IC' because A) it's Voltgloss and B) I can trust his opinions a heckuva lot more than I can trust everyone else's.
He is also QUITE deferential to the IC--way more than I had remembered. He proposes flavor claiming. He does the "that suck" after xeiron is killed, which some people say is a scumtell, although I've never been sure if it actually is. Not very much content and super lurky. Also cautious, I think. Safe opinions, safe votes. Lots of "this is why I am doing this" type things.
I disagree about my 'safe choices'. When Galz claimed, I was one of the first to say 'This guy is totally town what the heck are you guys doing' and when nkirbit 'scumslipped' I was one of the few to defend him by pointing out that it was legitimate frustration. Both times, these were going against the majority's opinion.
I've just done another ctrl-F run through the printscreen of Day 1, looking for "frustrate," and while I see a lot of posts by a lot of people on nkirbit being frustrated, whether that frustration felt fake, whether it was town frustration, and whether it was scum frustration... I see absolutely zero posts by Archetype on the subject at all. Until this one, claiming to have defended nkirbit "by pointing out that it was legitimate frustration."
Someone double-check me please.
Alright, here.Look, the next person who either claims a PR (except at L-1) or says "so and so may or may not have a PR for this or that reason" earns a policy vote.100% agree.
I'm frustrated at both bocaj and nkirbit for this exact reason. Particularity bocaj because while it makes him more likely Town, his power becomes ineffective. Which really sucks since PGO is one of the quickest way to eliminate scum (and town, I guess. But it's worth the trade off IMO).
nkirbit for pushing claiming.
I do think both are town from this though. I think that what they did was anti-town, but still most likely town.
Vote: WalrusMcFishSr
Regarding the nkirbit wagon: yeah I'm actually cool with this. I could understand that it might be unwise for scum to get frustrated or make mistakes, but nkirbit's indignance has a different ring to it to me than, say, shraeye's, who was able to convince me earlier. Not as if my reads are pretty strong on anybody right now but someone's gotta be the choice. You might say that I'm just opportunistically jumping on the lynch, but this was my honest read, and clearly some others got the same impression. Plus, it were best that we lynched somebody tonight (right? maybe?) and it looks like this might be the only viable wagon there is.This struck me as odd. Especially the bolded part.
At no point did I do anything that suggested any other player should claim anything. Everyone saying that I did so should go back and look for evidence rather than accept the groupthink that I did so.I have, and that's where I drew my conclusion. I don't follow the groupthink of you being obvscum for doing it, but I do think you were revealing a bit too much which I find anti-town.
someone mentioned tonight as a soft deadline. Is that still happening, and is it meaningful given no bankable deadlines and default lynch?
Because my scummeter is completely bonkers and I don't know what anyone is anymore.someone mentioned tonight as a soft deadline. Is that still happening, and is it meaningful given no bankable deadlines and default lynch?
Why aren't you voting Archetype?
I did reread Archetype and he's very consistent in his reads and his comments make sense. He hasn't voted often, but his votes have been consistent with his reads.
You just reread Arch? Good, that will save me some time. What were his reads? Which comments of his did you think made sense?
He has voted for (in order): Dsell, Walrus, mcmc, Walrus, Eevee, Faust. He started out with slight suspicions of Voltaire (who had voted him), but that soon dissipated. at 577 he says he finds Dsell and Chairs scummy, Galz and Voltgloss towny (no kidding). 749 He says nkirbit and bocaJ both seem like town to him. 924 He finds faust and Dsell scummy. After the bunch of claims, he believes all of them except Eevee, because a survivor shouldn't care whether or not Galzria lives. He also questions chairs' claim b/c he thought chairs had hinted he was VT when he said he was just a cog in the town machine. He doesn't say why he voted faust, but he said let chairs live another night, maybe we'll get the results of an investigation.
I think his observation about Eevee makes a lot of sense. I agree with his uneasiness about Walrus. His wish to keep chairs alive another night is a reasonable position.
Three questions I have for Archetype are: 1. Why did you say enablers turn powers off (579 or so) 2. Why did you think scum would want to kill Galzria (577 or so) and 3. Why haven't you pursued your Dsell suspicions more actively?
He also questions chairs' claim b/c he thought chairs had hinted he was VT when he said he was just a cog in the town machine.
TL;DR
Overall, I feel pretty null about him. I hate that he has an unverifiable claim, but I don't have reason to doubt it. He's very lurky, but I don't see a strong case against him except that he tried to give his vote to our IC, and he really wanted to lynch someone we now know to be confirmed town D1. I would vote for him if it were needed, but I don't think he's as strong a scum candidate as many others are. I'm content to leave my vote on faust for now, and am willing to move it to Eevee, mail-mi, or EFHW if we get near deadline and they look viable.
TL;DR
Overall, I feel pretty null about him. I hate that he has an unverifiable claim, but I don't have reason to doubt it. He's very lurky, but I don't see a strong case against him except that he tried to give his vote to our IC, and he really wanted to lynch someone we now know to be confirmed town D1. I would vote for him if it were needed, but I don't think he's as strong a scum candidate as many others are. I'm content to leave my vote on faust for now, and am willing to move it to Eevee, mail-mi, or EFHW if we get near deadline and they look viable.
Why won't you vote Archetype?
I just thought of a stupid way to confirm bocaJ's claim... I could target him...
TL;DR
Overall, I feel pretty null about him. I hate that he has an unverifiable claim, but I don't have reason to doubt it. He's very lurky, but I don't see a strong case against him except that he tried to give his vote to our IC, and he really wanted to lynch someone we now know to be confirmed town D1. I would vote for him if it were needed, but I don't think he's as strong a scum candidate as many others are. I'm content to leave my vote on faust for now, and am willing to move it to Eevee, mail-mi, or EFHW if we get near deadline and they look viable.
Why won't you vote Archetype?
Because I've forgotten the case on him? I might, but I'll need to reread the case before I decide either way. I've been making more of a focused reading and haven't followed the most recent thread developments closely.
Summary of salient points from my reread of Arch Day 1. This is mostly summary, not analysis, although I did bold a few points I found most interesting. Have to run now, but will reread faust later.
- Starts off by commenting about how great it is that I am IC
- Comments early that "I feel I may slip back into the old Arch meta of very little posting. But I'll try not to!"
--- Note that shraeye has no comment on this (where he attacks nkirbit for his very similar comment)
- Suggests mass flavor claim very early. liopoil says "sure"; mcmc says "no way" and votes Arch. Then I come out against it, and Arch backs away, saying he was "more interested in Voltgloss's take on flavor claiming" than anyone else's.
- Asks Galz this question: "do you know if what you Enable will be revealed upon death?"
- "I'm almost 99% sure there are 2 scumteams. One for MF and one for Community." (note: Arch is MF, same as shraeye)
- Comes out very clearly against Galzria being lynched. "I believe Galzria like 95%. So I think he's Town. I don't want to lynch him even though he wants to because, well, I'd rather lynch scum. And I think anyone that does want to see him lynched is really scummy. And I'd rather have scum waste a nightkill on him."
- Casts his first vote on Dsell
- When xeiron suggests Galzria "enables an extra scumteam kill," Arch responds, in part, "And enablers usually turn a power off, not on."
- Voices frustration at bocaJ for claiming and at nkirbit for "pushing claiming." Says they are likely town, but what they did was anti-town. (Doesn't mention his suggestion everyone flavorclaim.) Votes Walrus for ostensibly "sa[ying] that nkirbit is the only available lynch when he really isn't."
- Gives "this sucks" reaction to xeiron's flip.
- Spends posts dwelling on whether ash would have modkilled xeiron if xeiron were scum.
- Comments again that I'm "being a great IC." Says he believes there is at least 1 scum on nkirbit's wagon.
- Tells everyone on Friday he will have no access over weekend until late Sunday.
- His posts where he votes mcmc (9/22, 11:51 p.m.). Copy-pasted from print screen:
Title: Re: M31: Modern Community (Day 1!)
Post by: Archetype on September 22, 2013, 11:51:34 pmQuoteI'll take ashersky's big text as advice to hurry the heck up.
I'm very tenoted to vote Mcmcsalot. I almost always find EFHW Towny and Mcmcsalot scummy, so that probably has something to do with it. But yet I don't feel like its the smart thing to do. Can't quite put my finger on it though. I'll follow his lynch if my vote is needed.
But at this point I'd be up for a TA lunch personally. I tried to not sheep everyone else and found Twistedarcher different for not posting as frequently and about everything and anything under the sun as he normally does. But since Lord Voltgloss III doesn't like his lunch, I doubt it's happening today.
So I guess that brings me back to Mcmcsalot. Vote:Mcmcsalot. Even if he is lurking town, I don't mind him gone. He's not really furthering discussion anyway.
Title: Re: M31: Modern Community (Day 1!)
Post by: Archetype on September 22, 2013, 11:55:58 pmQuoteI just realized that sounded really mean mcmcsalot. I meant in the context of the game. I understand you're busy but if you are town, I'd rather have an active Towny alive than a non active one.
I also disagree with Robz about sheeping the IC. I think that in a game this large scum is more likely to lurk than post a lot and back up Voltgloss. But I guess that depends on the players play style, but in general I feel scum would lurk. And now I realize I'm rehashing what was said earlier. But there's my outdated opinion.
- Reappears a few hours before deadline, noting "Seems like I'm getting some heat." Says later he wouldn't consider himself lurking, that he was gone over the weekend, and that he had more time to post when in LOTR 2. Comments faust is worth a reread during the night.
- Accepts Robz's accusation that he is "sucking up to the IC," saying that's warranted because it's me and he can trust my opinions. Points out he was "one of the first to say" that Galz was "totally town," and was "one of the few to defend [nkirbit]" when he "scumslipped" by "pointing out that it was legitimate frustration." Note: I don't see where Arch did this. Did I miss it somewhere?
- Comments that Voltaire's case on chairs about the "cog in Town's machine" post is "something to look back on later." Keeps vote on mcmc.
- Comments that liopoil is a "bad case of moving votes around." Keeps vote on mcmc. That's his last post for Day 1.
The fact that no one - at all - has joined me in suspecting Archetype is ringing serious alarm bells in my mind.
Like, every time I've publicly suspected someone or suggested someone for the lynch, someone has jumped on board and "sheeped the IC" to some degree. But here - almost nothing. Instead, a quickwagon developed on someone else (and someone who, I admit, is a viable lynch candidate). The only people I remember who have even responded were TA giving Arch an FoS for suggesting massclaim (but not doing any more than that, and then he joined the faust wagon), and Robz at least responding to my suggesting Archetype during the end-of-Day-1 lynch craziness.
The fact that Archetype is on that wagon - along with another player who was "fine with massclaim" (mail-mi) - rings even more alarm bells in my mind.
My post about massclaim being exactly what scum wants was, by the way, 100% serious.
So, can someone explain to me why Archetype is so clearly town that so many people don't want to talk about him at all?
Because from where I sit, I feel like I've finally pointed my finger at scum.
I missed the case since I wasn't doing a re-read, I was only looking at people I found scummy previously and people who had multiple votes. My FoS at Arch wasn't related to your case, I haven't seen your case. What post is it?
#2400. And I admit up front it's not at the level of a "case." It's mainly my seeing Arch propose massclaim, and a few people jump on as "hey that's a good idea" - mail-mi was one, I keep blanking on the other, I need to doublecheck - and I'm sitting there thinking "this is a TERRIBLE idea for town and a WONDERFUL idea for scum."
Oh, and there was another aspect of Arch proposing massclaim that rubbed me in a scummy way: when I asked Arch about why he wanted a massclaim, he gave a response that said NOTHING about his early Day 1 proposal that we do a full flavorclaim. Taking the two together, and Arch's not mentioning the first when proposing the second, adds to the suspicion.
Plus the fact that almost no one has said much of anything about Arch. TA and Robz are the only examples that spring to mind, and even their comments to date have been on the minimal side compared to other candidates.
Now, I need to reread to see what else in the record supports or refutes this suspicion. Freely admit I'm going off recollections here.
Voltgloss - I should probably claim sometime before night, with enough time for everyone to see it and respond.
Voltgloss - I should probably claim sometime before night, with enough time for everyone to see it and respond.
That's up to you. Only you can say whether your claiming - and when - is best for town.
I just thought of a stupid way to confirm bocaJ's claim... I could target him...
I thought your power doesn't work anymore.
I just thought of a stupid way to confirm bocaJ's claim... I could target him...
I thought your power doesn't work anymore.
I can still choose three people, I just won't save anybody.
What was the planned timing? By which I mean: when did you have to get your choice-of-three-players to the mods?
Ok, I'm a psychiatrist. My flavor name is Ian Duncan, the psychology professor from Community. My role is to cure the SK, if there is one, and make him into a townie. At first I thought I should lay low, so the SK doesn't target me, but thinking about it more I think the SK might LIKE to be cured, given the impossibility of winning in such a large game. I know I will have a very hard time finding him one person a night. SO, in the interests of preventing another NK tonight, I am claiming in the hopes the SK will come forward and ask to be cured.
nkirbit was the closest thing I've seen to a VT. He was a VT-with-a-drawback (Macho).
But let's not leap to believing EFHW's claim. I want to know who she targeted last night.
nkirbit was the closest thing I've seen to a VT. He was a VT-with-a-drawback (Macho).
But let's not leap to believing EFHW's claim. I want to know who she targeted last night.
nkirbit was the closest thing I've seen to a VT. He was a VT-with-a-drawback (Macho).
But let's not leap to believing EFHW's claim. I want to know who she targeted last night.
nkirbit was the closest thing I've seen to a VT. He was a VT-with-a-drawback (Macho).
But let's not leap to believing EFHW's claim. I want to know who she targeted last night.
Volt, knowing nothing of the shows, or connections of claims made so far, how have flavor name vs Role stood up so far this game? EFHW's "claim" is tied very directly to her role, such that if she flavor claimed only, you could reasonably guess what her "Role" was. That seems awfully dangerous, and I don't believe it's true of my own flavor. Thus I wonder if it was a claim provided by the mods to "sound reasonable" (which it does), when really it doesn't exactly fit what we've seen thusfar.
Or am I wrong and there's been evidence of strong flavor/role connection?
That's up to you. Only you can say whether your claiming - and when - is best for town.
Only people who got at least half of L-1.
It takes 9 to lynch, I can only cure someone with 4 or more votes at some point during the day that just ended.Only people who got at least half of L-1.
Sorry, I'm not sure what this means. I think I do, but can you clarify more explicitly?
Ok, I'm a psychiatrist. My flavor name is Ian Duncan, the psychology professor from Community. My role is to cure the SK, if there is one, and make him into a townie. At first I thought I should lay low, so the SK doesn't target me, but thinking about it more I think the SK might LIKE to be cured, given the impossibility of winning in such a large game. I know I will have a very hard time finding him one person a night. SO, in the interests of preventing another NK tonight, I am claiming in the hopes the SK will come forward and ask to be cured.
You said if there is one? Do you not know if there is one or not?
Right, I don't know for sure.Ok, I'm a psychiatrist. My flavor name is Ian Duncan, the psychology professor from Community. My role is to cure the SK, if there is one, and make him into a townie. At first I thought I should lay low, so the SK doesn't target me, but thinking about it more I think the SK might LIKE to be cured, given the impossibility of winning in such a large game. I know I will have a very hard time finding him one person a night. SO, in the interests of preventing another NK tonight, I am claiming in the hopes the SK will come forward and ask to be cured.
You said if there is one? Do you not know if there is one or not?
But, for purposes of your Night 1 choice, L-1 yesterday (Day 1) was 10 votes.
Also, Jorbles' question is a good one.
That's up to you. Only you can say whether your claiming - and when - is best for town.
But, for purposes of your Night 1 choice, L-1 yesterday (Day 1) was 10 votes.
Also, Jorbles' question is a good one.
Right, so my N1 target needed 5 or more D1 votes.
Who were your five N1 possible choices?
EFHW logged off. She may not have seen my question yet. That is fine. We can, and should, wait.
I'm back earlier than I thought. Those were the 5.
And cool, another thing I'm not allowed to question or know about. I'm noticing a troubling trend in this game.
Given the amount of secret information that is being sent around, I'm just going to proxy my vote to Voltgloss. I don't feel like I'm really contributing to scum hunting anyways.
Vote: bocaJ
Do NOT do this.
You have to make your own decisions as to who is scum. You have to be responsible for those decisions. Abdicating responsibility for your vote is something that scum is always looking to do. Don't help them in that regard. Don't make the rest of the town think you are scum and mislynch you as a result.
Do NOT do this.
Now. We have two scenarios: Either I enable shraeye or Galz does. And it's almost impossible to figure out who does what without lynching one of us. Galz is a much better scumhunter than me, so I'd volunteer as scapegoat. But there's always the risk of I enabling a Town PR and Galz a scum PR (I don't think both enable scum PRs. But Faust can tell us). I still feel like faust or mail-mi would be a far better lynch at this point, but if it ever came down to it I'd rather be lynched than Galzria to verify Enabling.
I have completely lost any ability to read Galzria, Robz, Mail-mi, or EFHW (for also getting the case). Voltgloss, tell me, are those people just completely off the table? I know you say to just completely ignore everything that's happened, but yeah that's not happening, and I have no freaking idea how to read people. I find Galzria and Robz super scummy and I have no way to separate that from frustration without an actual explanation of what happened.I'm with TA on this one. I have found Galz and Robz scummy as well. Or at least, have been suspicious of them for quite some time. I'm not sure why there is info hidden from town in the mail-mi thing and I'm confused as well (although, maybe nor as upset as TA). But I'm not sure what I should even do if people can't verbalize what is actually happening or why...
Voltgloss, I feel that in town member not in the know has had their ability to effectively read the above players EXTREMELY diminished by what has happened. If you think that's worth it, then fine, but I don't know what could be SO BAD when we already have had 2/3 of town claimed that it's worth throwing so many people for a loop. Seriously, that's a pool of anywhere from 10-15 people you are looking at who don't know what to make of a really important situation that's happened. How am I supposed to read Galz or Robz? It's just not a feasible solution to say "ignore it"
And then when a townie comes and says "Hey, I have no freaking clue what's going on, but I am going to trust the IC on this one and vote where he wants" you respond to that by a vote???
And then when a townie comes and says "Hey, I have no freaking clue what's going on, but I am going to trust the IC on this one and vote where he wants" you respond to that by a vote???
That's not what he said. Or at least, not what I understood him to say. I understood him to be saying "I'm not going to try any more and I will just vote wherever the IC wants, for the rest of the game."
I am limited in who I can target. Only people who got at least half of L-1. There were 5 choices, including myself. I chose nkirbit. Shraeye would been my second choice. Turns out neither were SK.
But, for purposes of your Night 1 choice, L-1 yesterday (Day 1) was 10 votes.
Also, Jorbles' question is a good one.
Right, so my N1 target needed 5 or more D1 votes.
Voltgloss I really like that way of summarizing the voting.
The main red flag for me in relation to Robz / Galzria seems to be how much they seem to trust one another. What happened to me seems more like a play you would see from Masons than from Neighbors. They didn't seem to expect manipulation from one another one bit, and were very unified. For two players whose alignments are unconfirmed to one another, that seems so, so, so off. Especially from Galzria's side, given that, as mail-mi pointed out, Robz' role sounds like it's closer to mentor than neighborizer.
Of course, they could be hiding suspicions...but that's not the impression I get AT ALL. The impression I got was complete trust, on both sides. That, to me, comes from players who are confirmed town to one another, or players who are scum, or a scum "trusting" a town player. I can get why Robz trusts Galz so much -- given Galz' enabler claim going into D2 -- but I can't fathom why Galz seems to trust Robz so much, and it's throwing up red flags for me.
I'm a REDACTED Enabler. Just like Galzria. That's why, when he claimed, I was one of the first to profess a Town read on him.
That's also why I was curious about how his role worked, since I expected the same to be true for me.
Then when shraeye flipped Enabled Ninja, I wondered if Galz could be scum. Then I figured that that couldn't be true, it'd be too much of a detriment to his team if he were lynched. So I'm still stuck on him being Town.
Of course, a player claiming Enabled X would greatly help, but I don't think it's the best course of action. Maybe just claiming that you're an Enabled X, but not claiming your PR?
Then when shraeye flipped Enabled Ninja, I wondered if Galz could be scum. Then I figured that that couldn't be true, it'd be too much of a detriment to his team if he were lynched. So I'm still stuck on him being Town.
The bolded sentence is, I think, a scumslip. Arch is implicitly assuming here that Galz enables shraeye, i.e., "if Galz were scum, it'd be too much of a detriment to his team because his team would lose both Galz and shraeye's power." If Arch were really an Enabler, he wouldn't assume that; he wouldn't know whether Galz enables shraeye, or whether Arch enables shraeye. Arch doesn't appear to think that though. Which says to me, "Arch is not, in fact, an Enabler."
Do we have anyone else willing to come forward as having an enabled power? Wouldn't make it a certainty, but would give us some limited evidence. I understand that revealing more targets to scum may hurt town though, so before anyone comes forward, could Voltgloss weigh in?
Do we have anyone else willing to come forward as having an enabled power? Wouldn't make it a certainty, but would give us some limited evidence. I understand that revealing more targets to scum may hurt town though, so before anyone comes forward, could Voltgloss weigh in?
I think that if another enabler exists they should probably claim. Scum already have much juicier targets.
Do we have anyone else willing to come forward as having an enabled power? Wouldn't make it a certainty, but would give us some limited evidence. I understand that revealing more targets to scum may hurt town though, so before anyone comes forward, could Voltgloss weigh in?
I think that if another enabler exists they should probably claim. Scum already have much juicier targets.
I wasn't suggesting another enabler come forward, but rather if anyone else who has an enabled power (since IIRC, the only enabled power that has been revealed or claimed is shraeye's).
Enabled player, I'd recommend you lay low. Don't claim. I fear that even with your verification, I'll still be lynched and
we'll have yet another claimed player.
Obviously Chairs should claim who he targeted tomorrow.I know. But if you look back at the posts Voltgloss specifically pulled up you can see I had a connection with Enabling since D1.
It's also very easy for a scum to fakeclaim an enabler. I mean, mafia knows that Shraeye is enabled. A quick glance at mafiascum shows that he would have an enabler. So it would be very possible, and very easy, for scum to fakeclaim enabler. Why do you think it's impossible? It's not like scum would have had to make it up out of thin air.
Obviously Chairs should claim who he targeted tomorrow.I know. But if you look back at the posts Voltgloss specifically pulled up you can see I had a connection with Enabling since D1.
It's also very easy for a scum to fakeclaim an enabler. I mean, mafia knows that Shraeye is enabled. A quick glance at mafiascum shows that he would have an enabler. So it would be very possible, and very easy, for scum to fakeclaim enabler. Why do you think it's impossible? It's not like scum would have had to make it up out of thin air.
I believe Archetype's claim. I believe he's an Enabler. I also believe he's scum.
The symmetry is wonderful. He and Shraeye match, but because Archetype is redacted, they don't know if they -match each other-. I absolutely believe that there's another Enabled player in the game right now, FROM Modern Family, and they're TOWN.
Scum enable town.
Town enable scum.
It's wonderful. It makes sense. If Archetype were from Community, I would think otherwise. But I absolutely believe there's a symmetry going on here. Especially because I just now bothered to compare my flavor to Shraeye's.
I'm Phil Dunphy, World Coolest Dad. From what I gather, I don't care much about disciplining my kids. I care more about making them like me. By giving them what they want. By enabling them.
Flavor is very important, and knowledge of both Community and Modern Family may make the game more enjoyable for you. But that knowledge is NOT required to play this game, or win this game. You might not get all the jokes, but you'll be able to play, just like any other game.
At the time of joining, all players may specify with which of the two shows they are familiar: Community, Modern Family, both or neither. The mods will attempt to align players with flavor characters (but not role or alignment) from the shows with which they are most familiar. This will still be done using a random number generator. This isn't guaranteed, but we will make our best attempt at it. If a player doesn't care about receiving a flavor character that corresponds to a particular show they can also let us know.
I believe Archetype's claim. I believe he's an Enabler. I also believe he's scum.
The symmetry is wonderful. He and Shraeye match, but because Archetype is redacted, they don't know if they -match each other-. I absolutely believe that there's another Enabled player in the game right now, FROM Modern Family, and they're TOWN.
Scum enable town.
Town enable scum.
It's wonderful. It makes sense. If Archetype were from Community, I would think otherwise. But I absolutely believe there's a symmetry going on here. Especially because I just now bothered to compare my flavor to Shraeye's.
I'm Phil Dunphy, World Coolest Dad. From what I gather, I don't care much about disciplining my kids. I care more about making them like me. By giving them what they want. By enabling them.
If this is true, I'm going to definitely feel somewhat misled by the mods description of this game:QuoteFlavor is very important, and knowledge of both Community and Modern Family may make the game more enjoyable for you. But that knowledge is NOT required to play this game, or win this game. You might not get all the jokes, but you'll be able to play, just like any other game.
At the time of joining, all players may specify with which of the two shows they are familiar: Community, Modern Family, both or neither. The mods will attempt to align players with flavor characters (but not role or alignment) from the shows with which they are most familiar. This will still be done using a random number generator. This isn't guaranteed, but we will make our best attempt at it. If a player doesn't care about receiving a flavor character that corresponds to a particular show they can also let us know.
If Galz is right, it sure seems like people who have no familiarity with either show are at a disadvantage over people who do.
Ta, does Faust's claim make flavor sense in context of the show?
Ugh.
I have done some research (because I don't know the shows), and some thinking. All of which leads to this:
I am Gloria Pritchett, and I have an Enabled power.
From what I understand, Archetype is Manny and thus my son. Him being my Enabler makes perfect sense. Him being scum makes perfect sense. Do I think it is worth sacrificing my power to lynch scum? Absolutely.
Intent to hammer.
Voltgloss, I'm waiting for you. Should I hammer Archetype?
faust what is your power?
Ok, I thought it was pretty certain that Arch enabled him. I guess we don't need to know, anyway.faust what is your power?
I don't know if faust should claim, on the offchance that we have this wrong and Galzria enables him (if faust is town). Anything wrong with that thinking?
Eevee, will you claim SK? I find it rather unlikely we would have both a Survivor and an SK. If you're SK and want to win with town, now is the time to claim. You may be able to be of unique help to us tonight.I absolutely would come clean here if I was the sk, but sadly I'm not.
Eevee, will you claim SK? I find it rather unlikely we would have both a Survivor and an SK. If you're SK and want to win with town, now is the time to claim. You may be able to be of unique help to us tonight.I absolutely would come clean here if I was the sk, but sadly I'm not.
Again, I think mailmi and EFHW should coordinate which of the two targets me tonight. I think one but only one should.
Efhw did you say you who you targeted last night?
Oh, ok. that makes sense.I think just EFHW should target you (if you're not a SK why do you want her to target you) so I can save my single shot for something more pressing later.
If both claims are true, mailmi's role is extremely low utility for town. He should probably still block me some random night, because what else?
Obviously Chairs should claim who he targeted tomorrow.
It's also very easy for a scum to fakeclaim an enabler. I mean, mafia knows that Shraeye is enabled. A quick glance at mafiascum shows that he would have an enabler. So it would be very possible, and very easy, for scum to fakeclaim enabler. Why do you think it's impossible? It's not like scum would have had to make it up out of thin air.
Also flip flip flip flip flip+1
(http://gifs.gifbin.com/092009/1252228507_dog-backflip.gif)
I was so sure about Arch. So. Sure.
Ugh.
chairs, please announce your investigation results.
I too was very surprised that Arche was town.
What do we think of the symmetry theory now? Archetype being town makes Faust and galz at least a bit more suspect. Is it 2-2 scum-town in the enabling pairs or 1-3? I think 3-1 is veery unlikely.
Voltgloss, I still want to know what happened with Galzria/mail-mi. Is that information still off-limits today?
I am debating whether we should mass claim now, including flavor. I was intensely worried about it yesterday - and was a key part of why I thought Arch was scum - but with him flipping town, and given the situation we are in now, I am wondering if mass claim is the right step.
Vote: sudgy
What was the point of that post?
I don't get any results. It's like doctor - you target someone and that's it. I targeted faust.
Hey guys, I am here and I'm going to try to take a more active role in the game. I may ask for summaries of things or cases, just point me in the right direction of where to re-read and I'll do my best.
The choice of Walrus as a target suggests there may still be someone who can kill who hasn't yet.
EFHW, what do you do again? I remember you can only target someone who gets half of the votes needed for lynch.
EFHW, what do you do again? I remember you can only target someone who gets half of the votes needed for lynch.
I can cure the SK so he becomes a VT.
EFHW, what do you do again? I remember you can only target someone who gets half of the votes needed for lynch.
I can cure the SK so he becomes a VT.
if there is someone we suspect in particular for SK, we should get that person up to 4 votes, at least, so I can target them.
EFHW, what do you do again? I remember you can only target someone who gets half of the votes needed for lynch.
I can cure the SK so he becomes a VT.
Yay, our only VT! ;D
EFHW, what do you do again? I remember you can only target someone who gets half of the votes needed for lynch.
I can cure the SK so he becomes a VT.
Yay, our only VT! ;D
I don't know if this is an assumption or you having additional information. There are three players still unclaimed, but you are assuming that there's no VT in there. While it's probably unlikely given what we know that there's no true vanilla VT, you seem to have some information about the unclaimed roles out there..
When I have someone specific in mind, I will be sure to bring it up.if there is someone we suspect in particular for SK, we should get that person up to 4 votes, at least, so I can target them.
Who do you suspect? It's your power role, after all.
if there is someone we suspect in particular for SK, we should get that person up to 4 votes, at least, so I can target them.
I am willing to claim at this point. I need to know if anyone Roleblocked me last night though (it's relevant).
1-shot. I did not.I am willing to claim at this point. I need to know if anyone Roleblocked me last night though (it's relevant).
Did mail-mi claim roleblocker? Or was that someone else?
I did not roleblock you last night.
EFHW, why the breadcrumb?
EFHW, why the breadcrumb?
you mean Day 2?
I'll assume you mean the psychiatrist reference on Day 2. I don't know how many people followed Save the Princess, but it was a game ashersky made up where the white knight has to find the princess and the princess can't claim or she will be killed. Here I'm the white knight and the SK is the princess. Once I realized the SK might want to be cured, like the princess wants to be found, I hoped he might signal me somehow. I did other little breadcrumbing things, too. But I didn't see anything, and it was a real longshot anyway, so eventually I just claimed.
I'll assume you mean the psychiatrist reference on Day 2. I don't know how many people followed Save the Princess, but it was a game ashersky made up where the white knight has to find the princess and the princess can't claim or she will be killed. Here I'm the white knight and the SK is the princess. Once I realized the SK might want to be cured, like the princess wants to be found, I hoped he might signal me somehow. I did other little breadcrumbing things, too. But I didn't see anything, and it was a real longshot anyway, so eventually I just claimed.
Wait wait, I'm confused. You're saying the Sk is prohibited from claiming SK? And you know that? Then why did you ask the SK to claim yesterday?
I'll assume you mean the psychiatrist reference on Day 2. I don't know how many people followed Save the Princess, but it was a game ashersky made up where the white knight has to find the princess and the princess can't claim or she will be killed. Here I'm the white knight and the SK is the princess. Once I realized the SK might want to be cured, like the princess wants to be found, I hoped he might signal me somehow. I did other little breadcrumbing things, too. But I didn't see anything, and it was a real longshot anyway, so eventually I just claimed.
Wait wait, I'm confused. You're saying the Sk is prohibited from claiming SK? And you know that? Then why did you ask the SK to claim yesterday?
I don't have any special knowledge. I'm saying I think the SK wouldn't claim unless guaranteed a cure b/c they would be lynched.
I'll assume you mean the psychiatrist reference on Day 2. I don't know how many people followed Save the Princess, but it was a game ashersky made up where the white knight has to find the princess and the princess can't claim or she will be killed. Here I'm the white knight and the SK is the princess. Once I realized the SK might want to be cured, like the princess wants to be found, I hoped he might signal me somehow. I did other little breadcrumbing things, too. But I didn't see anything, and it was a real longshot anyway, so eventually I just claimed.
Wait wait, I'm confused. You're saying the Sk is prohibited from claiming SK? And you know that? Then why did you ask the SK to claim yesterday?
I don't have any special knowledge. I'm saying I think the SK wouldn't claim unless guaranteed a cure b/c they would be lynched.
Why would we lynch them if you can make them a townie? They would just become a Vig for us. Your story is not adding up to me.
But they would be guaranteed a cure because of your claim, right?
Galz: I have much the same thought as you have. I am still leaning toward having faust (and maybe everyone) fullclaim though.
Argh, of course a have forgotten the most notable thing about shraeye: He states twice (#561 and #1001) that mail-mi vs. chairs is town vs. town. This makes me think that one of them could well be scum.
In fact, let me unvote for the time being. I would think that if Shraeye were scum, he would have turned up by now to defend himself more effectively. Maybe he was just being a bit blunt after all. Also, a couple of other people jumped on the Shraeye boat after me with minimal justification--not that my initial reasoning was any less tenuous, but still it raises some eyebrows.
I'm actually not so sure about this part. He played quite clever - not responding anymore, waiting for us to move on to someone else. And if this is planned, it worked quite well - the wagon has dissolved. I'll still FOS him.
Quote from: Voltgloss ilink=topic=9308.msg301231#msg301231 date=1381004195Galz: I have much the same thought as you have. I am still leaning toward having faust (and maybe everyone) fullclaim though.
I agree that Faust should fullclaim.
Voltgloss, if you think that Faust is town, then do you still think Galzria is town? Scum/town and town/town doesn't make much sense in my eyes. I'd expect either scum/scum and town/town or scum/town and scum/town.
I ask bocaJ to give a full flavor claim.
On the other hand, it's not like scum is going to choose to play a low roll every time. It's not like they wouldn't realize how bad it looks.Wrong thread, my apologies!
If our ICs agree that I should full-claim, I'll do it. I think it might be detrimental to town however, because I probably won't be able to give any important additional information for town, and scum learns more about the setup.
??? I have the information in which way I used my power N1.If our ICs agree that I should full-claim, I'll do it. I think it might be detrimental to town however, because I probably won't be able to give any important additional information for town, and scum learns more about the setup.
What? I don't get this. I thought Archetype enabled you, and you no longer will be able to use your power role. So how would you have any more additional information?
Vote: Faust
??? I have the information in which way I used my power N1.If our ICs agree that I should full-claim, I'll do it. I think it might be detrimental to town however, because I probably won't be able to give any important additional information for town, and scum learns more about the setup.
What? I don't get this. I thought Archetype enabled you, and you no longer will be able to use your power role. So how would you have any more additional information?
Vote: Faust
The information can be detrimental because it might indicate to scum which kind of roles might still be out there, and which aren't. This isn't that hard to understand, is it???? I have the information in which way I used my power N1.If our ICs agree that I should full-claim, I'll do it. I think it might be detrimental to town however, because I probably won't be able to give any important additional information for town, and scum learns more about the setup.
What? I don't get this. I thought Archetype enabled you, and you no longer will be able to use your power role. So how would you have any more additional information?
Vote: Faust
How would that be detrimental to town for them to know it?
If you have a PR, and you have results from them, and you can no longer use your PR, there's no way that your explanation of your PR can be detrimental to town. To me it just looks like you're shying away from claiming because you don't want to be caught in a fakeclaim.
The information can be detrimental because it might indicate to scum which kind of roles might still be out there, and which aren't. This isn't that hard to understand, is it???? I have the information in which way I used my power N1.If our ICs agree that I should full-claim, I'll do it. I think it might be detrimental to town however, because I probably won't be able to give any important additional information for town, and scum learns more about the setup.
What? I don't get this. I thought Archetype enabled you, and you no longer will be able to use your power role. So how would you have any more additional information?
Vote: Faust
How would that be detrimental to town for them to know it?
If you have a PR, and you have results from them, and you can no longer use your PR, there's no way that your explanation of your PR can be detrimental to town. To me it just looks like you're shying away from claiming because you don't want to be caught in a fakeclaim.
Oh, I guess. But that's true for anyone's claim, why do you think it would relate specifically to you?I don't, and I'm not sure massclaimig is a good idea. Some roles might give more information than others, and I think they should decide themselves whether this information is worth claiming. It seems however that Voltgloss wants this massclaim, and if everyone else claims, there's no point in me not claiming.
I don't think lynching chairs can be optimal. If he is for real, scum has to kill him eventually. If they don't, well, eventually we'll lynch him and get confirmation of all his results.
Yeah, not my best wording.I don't think lynching chairs can be optimal. If he is for real, scum has to kill him eventually. If they don't, well, eventually we'll lynch him and get confirmation of all his results.
???
Is this just wrong, or deliberately misleading? "If he's town, scum will kill him. If scum doesn't kill him, we'll lynch him and get his results." You omit the option where he actually IS scum.
Volt, this claim is unwise. What if I refuse? Not trying to be belligerent, honest question.
Volt, this claim is unwise. What if I refuse? Not trying to be belligerent, honest question.
What have you done this game that should make me believe you are town?
That aside, I would like flavor first. So, sudgy, please give a full flavor claim, and then Eevee after that.
Vote: EeveeI agree.
We should vote Eevee to the point where EFHW can psychologize him. If EFHW's lying and she can only kill people who get halfway to lynch--something certainly possible--well, at least it's just Eevee.
Eevee, what is your flavor role?Just survivor? Or do you mean character, that's Senor Chang.
Vote: Eevee
We should vote Eevee to the point where EFHW can psychologize him. If EFHW's lying and she can only kill people who get halfway to lynch--something certainly possible--well, at least it's just Eevee.
Eevee, what is your flavor role?Just survivor? Or do you mean character, that's Senor Chang.
Vote: Eevee
We should vote Eevee to the point where EFHW can psychologize him. If EFHW's lying and she can only kill people who get halfway to lynch--something certainly possible--well, at least it's just Eevee.
EFHW had that opportunity last night. She didn't take it.
Vote: Eevee
We should vote Eevee to the point where EFHW can psychologize him. If EFHW's lying and she can only kill people who get halfway to lynch--something certainly possible--well, at least it's just Eevee.
WhatVote: Eevee
We should vote Eevee to the point where EFHW can psychologize him. If EFHW's lying and she can only kill people who get halfway to lynch--something certainly possible--well, at least it's just Eevee.
This is indeed quite possible. That would make Voltaire her kill last night. And shraeye her kill the first night.
WhatVote: Eevee
We should vote Eevee to the point where EFHW can psychologize him. If EFHW's lying and she can only kill people who get halfway to lynch--something certainly possible--well, at least it's just Eevee.
This is indeed quite possible. That would make Voltaire her kill last night. And shraeye her kill the first night.
Sorry, me and Galz have discussed the bolded possibility in our QT. I realize I haven't mentioned it here yet.
I do think it's possible, but also that there are more likely targets. Do you think they are both scum or one town being manipulated by other who is scum?WhatVote: Eevee
We should vote Eevee to the point where EFHW can psychologize him. If EFHW's lying and she can only kill people who get halfway to lynch--something certainly possible--well, at least it's just Eevee.
This is indeed quite possible. That would make Voltaire her kill last night. And shraeye her kill the first night.
Sorry, me and Galz have discussed the bolded possibility in our QT. I realize I haven't mentioned it here yet.
Here's an example of Galz and Robz hunting for a third party rather than hunting for scum.
Does no one else find Galz/Robz scummy at all?
I do think it's possible, but also that there are more likely targets. Do you think they are both scum or one town being manipulated by other who is scum?WhatVote: Eevee
We should vote Eevee to the point where EFHW can psychologize him. If EFHW's lying and she can only kill people who get halfway to lynch--something certainly possible--well, at least it's just Eevee.
This is indeed quite possible. That would make Voltaire her kill last night. And shraeye her kill the first night.
Sorry, me and Galz have discussed the bolded possibility in our QT. I realize I haven't mentioned it here yet.
Here's an example of Galz and Robz hunting for a third party rather than hunting for scum.
Does no one else find Galz/Robz scummy at all?
yeps. I agree that when trust like this surfaces, it's quite often a townie misplacing his trust and a mafioso blatantly abusing that.
chairs and mail-mi, please give full flavorclaims.
Dylan, awesome t-shirt designer.chairs and mail-mi, please give full flavorclaims.
WhatVote: Eevee
We should vote Eevee to the point where EFHW can psychologize him. If EFHW's lying and she can only kill people who get halfway to lynch--something certainly possible--well, at least it's just Eevee.
This is indeed quite possible. That would make Voltaire her kill last night. And shraeye her kill the first night.
Sorry, me and Galz have discussed the bolded possibility in our QT. I realize I haven't mentioned it here yet.
Here's an example of Galz and Robz hunting for a third party rather than hunting for scum.
Does no one else find Galz/Robz scummy at all?
yeps. I agree that when trust like this surfaces, it's quite often a townie misplacing his trust and a mafioso blatantly abusing that.
I can get why robz trusts galz, especially d2 given the enabler claim but
I'm not seeing why galz trusts robz
The main red flag for me in relation to Robz / Galzria seems to be how much they seem to trust one another. What happened to me seems more like a play you would see from Masons than from Neighbors. They didn't seem to expect manipulation from one another one bit, and were very unified. For two players whose alignments are unconfirmed to one another, that seems so, so, so off. Especially from Galzria's side, given that, as mail-mi pointed out, Robz' role sounds like it's closer to mentor than neighborizer.
Of course, they could be hiding suspicions...but that's not the impression I get AT ALL. The impression I got was complete trust, on both sides. That, to me, comes from players who are confirmed town to one another, or players who are scum, or a scum "trusting" a town player. I can get why Robz trusts Galz so much -- given Galz' enabler claim going into D2 -- but I can't fathom why Galz seems to trust Robz so much, and it's throwing up red flags for me.
I've explained why I trust him though:
A) Personal Reads. Robz has been playing Mafia since M-I. I've been playing since M-II. There is no single player that I am more comfortable or more familiar with than Robz. Doesn't mean that I'm always right or read him perfectly, but it does mean that I do so with greater frequency than other players by a fairly large margin.
B) I threw him under the bus D1 on requesting for him to be investigated. The odds of him being both a Neighbourizer AND Godfather are fairly slim. Maybe he's scum that has a teammate that can grant the Godfather buff. Possible, but still not particularly likely. Now, it doesn't appear that he actually WAS copped last night, however his reaction to me throwing the request out there was not one of a likely scum player. Could he be playing it cool, praying the investigation doesn't happen? Sure. But I think it's a stretch to try and justify him being scum to say so.
C) I DID put a series of 'tests' in our QT. Making comments when I saw things regarding roles D1 to see if he picked them up as NK targets. I hit the AHoppy/Voltaire connection on the head, but on D1 suggested they might be lovers to Robz. Free double kill for scum? No, Nkirbit died. I had nothing on him, and I doubt that anything "scum!robz" might've seen would've trumped what I offered. Lovers. Cops. Vig's. The kill choice just isn't in line with what scum!Robz would've seen from me.
All of this said, he could in fact still be scum. But I just don't think it's at all likely. Stubborn tunneling Robz is town 80% of the time. Add in everything else, and I feel reasonable and comfortable in choosing to trust him.
yeps. I agree that when trust like this surfaces, it's quite often a townie misplacing his trust and a mafioso blatantly abusing that.
I can get why robz trusts galz, especially d2 given the enabler claim but
I'm not seeing why galz trusts robz
WhatVote: Eevee
We should vote Eevee to the point where EFHW can psychologize him. If EFHW's lying and she can only kill people who get halfway to lynch--something certainly possible--well, at least it's just Eevee.
This is indeed quite possible. That would make Voltaire her kill last night. And shraeye her kill the first night.
Sorry, me and Galz have discussed the bolded possibility in our QT. I realize I haven't mentioned it here yet.
Here's an example of Galz and Robz hunting for a third party rather than hunting for scum.
Does no one else find Galz/Robz scummy at all?
No, it's not. EFHW could have this power as mafia or Sk or whatever. I mean, it may not be "kill" it may be that whatever X scum power she has, it need people to get halfway to lynch.
Really, I mean it can't even be the case that she is Sk who can only target people who get halfway to lynch--that's just weaker than normal SK, for no reason.
So this is just "normal" scum hunting, rather than "third party" scum hunting. I'm not really sure I buy EFHW's claim, or her stated targets, and think she could fit a generic scum profile, rather than mafia or SK specifically.
That you assumed I was talking third-party might say something about you, though.
yeps. I agree that when trust like this surfaces, it's quite often a townie misplacing his trust and a mafioso blatantly abusing that.
I can get why robz trusts galz, especially d2 given the enabler claim but
I'm not seeing why galz trusts robz
Why should he not trust me? Why don't you make a case, if you think that Galz should think I'm scum? Since you're not doing that, I take it to mean you don't actually suspect me. So if you don't actually suspect me, but want Galz to turn on me... well, what does that say about your alignment?
Robz, given that you are saying that Shraeye would be EFHW's night 1 kill, I think it's very explicit that you are hunting a third-party, not hunting mafia.
I have a number of reasons to trust Galzria.
First, I CHOSE him. It would be really bad luck if I picked scum.
I think townies working together in a QT together is an underrated, superpowerful PR (it really won the day in the last huge game, Mafia XI). It's almost like, well, if I picked Galz and he was scum, that's just really bad luck of the draw and there's nothing I could have done. But there are huge, huge, huge, huge benefits to assuming he is town and working with him. In trusting him, I'm banking on my turn 1 and 2 buys to not collide next shuffle, to use a Dominion term (and they are statistically unlikely to collide).
Okay, obviously that doesn't count for much with you, sure. Beyond that, I do think Galz is a player I have a comparatively easier time reading. I really did nail him as scum in the last game we both played together, Pick Your Posion 2 (don't remember the number). Galz is different as scum. Specifically, he's shorter, he's much more of a lurker, he's a follower rather than a leader, he doesn't propose as many plans, he's much more reactionary, etc. I mean I'm generalizing, but that's what I think at least.
Now look, I have 200 more posts of his to analyze than the rest of you do. I have high confidence that he's town. I'm far from certain, and I know I'm often wrong! But I just have this sense that if I got this wrong, well, I got really unlucky from the get-go and was probably pretty screwed.So, your whole argument is "I read him as town, I want him to be town, I'm fine with losing if I'm wrong." You picking Galzria before day 1 doesn't make it any more likely he is town - in fact it makes it less likely because he has less of an incentive to kill you given the trust he has established. This all works both ways (these reasons apply to Galzria trusting Robz as well).
Look, could Galz have brainwashed me? Yes. But no one has given me any reason to think this is the case! So I'm continuing to roll with the more likely and desirable scenario that he is indeed town.Again, there is a difference with blindly believing something you want to be true and suspecting everyone to the point of paranoia. Not saying Galz is so scummy you shouldn't work with him, I'm saying only considering the scenarios where he is town is not good for town. And, again, this is all interchangeable and applies to you as well, Galzria.
I have a number of reasons to trust Galzria.
First, I CHOSE him. It would be really bad luck if I picked scum. I think townies working together in a QT together is an underrated, superpowerful PR (it really won the day in the last huge game, Mafia XI). It's almost like, well, if I picked Galz and he was scum, that's just really bad luck of the draw and there's nothing I could have done. But there are huge, huge, huge, huge benefits to assuming he is town and working with him. In trusting him, I'm banking on my turn 1 and 2 buys to not collide next shuffle, to use a Dominion term (and they are statistically unlikely to collide).
Okay, obviously that doesn't count for much with you, sure. Beyond that, I do think Galz is a player I have a comparatively easier time reading. I really did nail him as scum in the last game we both played together, Pick Your Posion 2 (don't remember the number). Galz is different as scum. Specifically, he's shorter, he's much more of a lurker, he's a follower rather than a leader, he doesn't propose as many plans, he's much more reactionary, etc. I mean I'm generalizing, but that's what I think at least.
Specific to this game, I think his whole ENabler reveal thing was prety townie. Pretty him-townie. I mean I think it was a little silly and didn't acquit him at all the way he thought it did which initially made me suspicious--but that's town Galz. Town Galz thinks he is a townie basking in his towniness and and all shall partake in it as he reveals this to us through his schemes.
Now look, I have 200 more posts of his to analyze than the rest of you do. I have high confidence that he's town. I'm far from certain, and I know I'm often wrong! But I just have this sense that if I got this wrong, well, I got really unlucky from the get-go and was probably pretty screwed.
Okay, but why should I suspect Galzria? What about him is scummy? No, seriously, if there's something I'm missing I'd like to know. Most other people are treating him like town for reasons that I think are pretty good.
What I THINK is going on is that scum (TA, specifically) is annoyed that we are trusting each other, because it makes it harder for them to argue against either one us.
Okay, but why should I suspect Galzria? What about him is scummy? No, seriously, if there's something I'm missing I'd like to know. Most other people are treating him like town for reasons that I think are pretty good.There are pieces of evidence suggesting one of you is scum, for example the fact you continue you to live and PoE.
What I THINK is going on is that scum (TA, specifically) is annoyed that we are trusting each other, because it makes it harder for them to argue against either one us.
I am Haley Dunphy. My secondary win con is to get to l-1 with only male flavor roles voting for me.my secondary win con is to be between you and Claire (whoever that is) in a final vote count. Ugh.
I think TA's concerns are legitimate. You are saying stuff like "well, if I got unlucky and neighborized a mafia member, that's just so unlucky it's gg town, I don't want to consider that", which really is worrisome.
What I THINK is going on is that scum (TA, specifically) is annoyed that we are trusting each other, because it makes it harder for them to argue against either one us.
Okay, but why should I suspect Galzria? What about him is scummy? No, seriously, if there's something I'm missing I'd like to know. Most other people are treating him like town for reasons that I think are pretty good.There are pieces of evidence suggesting one of you is scum, for example the fact you continue you to live and PoE.
What I THINK is going on is that scum (TA, specifically) is annoyed that we are trusting each other, because it makes it harder for them to argue against either one us.
And really, my case isn't "stop trusting him". It's "stop trusting him so blindly". Really, it goes for you and Galzria both. When two people build complete trust on each other and almost speak in unison, it's almost always because one of them is scum. Finding scum is hard here, I could argue why anyone of us is town. Don't dismiss the possibility you are being mislead just because you don't want to believe it.
I think TA's concerns are legitimate. You are saying stuff like "well, if I got unlucky and neighborized a mafia member, that's just so unlucky it's gg town, I don't want to consider that", which really is worrisome.
What I THINK is going on is that scum (TA, specifically) is annoyed that we are trusting each other, because it makes it harder for them to argue against either one us.
Tell me this: Do you think it's at all reasonable of me (as town) to believe Faust to be town? Or do you think that my stated belief of that makes me more likely to be scum? My reasoning was something Voltgloss agreed with after all.
This is exactly what I'm talking about, actually. Robz pointing that out is a complete null-tell alignment-wise. Why wouldn't scum want to point out a clumsy wording I made? He has nothing to lose in bringing suspicion towards me. In fact, he actively wants it if he is scum - that means none of them is getting lynched!
A perfect example is your own recent example where you said "Chairs isn't a good lynch because scum will kill him, and if they don't, at least when we lynch him later we'll be able to trust his results". My immediate reaction was "How the heck does Eevee know Chairs is town? He never considers the alternative!". When I opened my QT, Robz had already posted "... and there's Eevee making assumptions about Chairs alignment he shouldn't know."
It's not "blind trust". It's that he and I, often times (not always, we've disagreed on a few reads), have near identical yet independent reads on the game. Now, I know that I'm town. So what's that indicate about him that he sees the same things I do?
It's not "blind trust". It's that he and I, often times (not always, we've disagreed on a few reads), have near identical yet independent reads on the game. Now, I know that I'm town. So what's that indicate about him that he sees the same things I do?
Tell me this: Do you think it's at all reasonable of me (as town) to believe Faust to be town? Or do you think that my stated belief of that makes me more likely to be scum? My reasoning was something Voltgloss agreed with after all.
No, I don't find it particularly more likely for you to be scum -- you had the same opinion Voltgloss had, and while I disagree, it doesn't make you scummy.
I agree that Faust's actions at the end of day would have been very bold from a scum perspective. It doesn't overrule how I've felt about him the entire game though. I found him scummy D1, would have lynched him yesterday, and still think there's a good chance he is scum. I found his approach to claiming scummy today -- he didn't want to claim his power, when if he's town, he knows it's
Keep in mind that, at the end of D2, everyone was basically told "If someone who's an enabled power claims, then we'll probably lynch Archetype". If he's scum, he knows Archetype is town. It's a chance to get his fakeclaim in AND get a lynch in one fell swoop. That may have simply been too much for scum to pass up. It's bold, yes, but I don't think impossible.
Now, from flavor, we can be pretty sure that Galzria:Shraeye :: Archetype:Faust. We know Shraeye is scum, and Archetype town. I strongly believe that there's symmetry there -- ie, it won't be town-town and town-scum. So, assuming symmetry, I'm left with two scenarios:
A) Galzria is scum, Faust is town
B) Galzria is town, Faust is scum
In other words, I believe one of Galzria and Faust is town, and the other scum. Looking at this symmetry -- if you're town -- we have:
Galzria (town):Shraeye(scum) :: Archetype(town):Faust(???)
Do you agree that due to symmetry, Faust would be more likely scum?
TA, isn't the concern that the mail-mi thing is total bogus alleviated by the fact that Voltgloss found it on his own and agreed with it?
I'm totally fine with you having a townread on each other. I'm just saying, from experience, that having a QT and similar reads with someone doesn't mean you should tell them who the town cop is. They might be mafia and kill him the following night.
When that happened, I really agreed with everything Galzria said. I really wanted him to be town. That didn't do much good to poor shark_bait who got slain because I trusted too much. Don't repeat the mistake I made!
Pushing Voltaire is another good example. You had a similar read on him, which probably contributed in you finding each other towny. Well, we know now suspecting Voltaire was a very pro-scum position. Shouldn't that make you reconsider your read a bit? You can't give the other townpoints for seeing the things about Voltaire anymore, you now know that case was misguided, either by design or unintentionally.It's not "blind trust". It's that he and I, often times (not always, we've disagreed on a few reads), have near identical yet independent reads on the game. Now, I know that I'm town. So what's that indicate about him that he sees the same things I do?
This, to me, seems like it might actually be more likely coming from one scum trying to play nice with the townie. The thing about town members, is that usually, early on, we're wrong and all over the place. If you two have so many similar reads, in such a large game with so many players, it may be manipulation more than both of you being spot on. For instance, you both were pushing Voltaire, right? Well, it turns out, he was actually town. Do you think it's more likely that you both had the same scum read on a town player, or that one of you noticed the other had a scum read on Voltaire, and decided to push the other into a scum read on a town member?
That, just like the snippet from me, is just the kind of situation where scum LOVES to share your read if you are town - it actively advances their agenda.Pushing Voltaire is another good example. You had a similar read on him, which probably contributed in you finding each other towny. Well, we know now suspecting Voltaire was a very pro-scum position. Shouldn't that make you reconsider your read a bit? You can't give the other townpoints for seeing the things about Voltaire anymore, you now know that case was misguided, either by design or unintentionally.It's not "blind trust". It's that he and I, often times (not always, we've disagreed on a few reads), have near identical yet independent reads on the game. Now, I know that I'm town. So what's that indicate about him that he sees the same things I do?
This, to me, seems like it might actually be more likely coming from one scum trying to play nice with the townie. The thing about town members, is that usually, early on, we're wrong and all over the place. If you two have so many similar reads, in such a large game with so many players, it may be manipulation more than both of you being spot on. For instance, you both were pushing Voltaire, right? Well, it turns out, he was actually town. Do you think it's more likely that you both had the same scum read on a town player, or that one of you noticed the other had a scum read on Voltaire, and decided to push the other into a scum read on a town member?
Weren't the Nobles masons? You guys are just neighbors, and I think that you have a highly likely chance to be scum. Moreso if Faust isn't.I'm totally fine with you having a townread on each other. I'm just saying, from experience, that having a QT and similar reads with someone doesn't mean you should tell them who the town cop is. They might be mafia and kill him the following night.
When that happened, I really agreed with everything Galzria said. I really wanted him to be town. That didn't do much good to poor shark_bait who got slain because I trusted too much. Don't repeat the mistake I made!
If anybody I had mentioned anything about had any ill befall them, I would've been after Robz' head. That didn't happen. Further, while I understand your distrust with the Role, the Nobles QT dominated M-XI. Joth, Ins, me, eHal, etc.
It's not "blind trust". It's that he and I, often times (not always, we've disagreed on a few reads), have near identical yet independent reads on the game. Now, I know that I'm town. So what's that indicate about him that he sees the same things I do?
This, to me, seems like it might actually be more likely coming from one scum trying to play nice with the townie. The thing about town members, is that usually, early on, we're wrong and all over the place. If you two have so many similar reads, in such a large game with so many players, it may be manipulation more than both of you being spot on. For instance, you both were pushing Voltaire, right? Well, it turns out, he was actually town. Do you think it's more likely that you both had the same scum read on a town player, or that one of you noticed the other had a scum read on Voltaire, and decided to push the other into a scum read on a town member?
It's not "blind trust". It's that he and I, often times (not always, we've disagreed on a few reads), have near identical yet independent reads on the game. Now, I know that I'm town. So what's that indicate about him that he sees the same things I do?
This, to me, seems like it might actually be more likely coming from one scum trying to play nice with the townie. The thing about town members, is that usually, early on, we're wrong and all over the place. If you two have so many similar reads, in such a large game with so many players, it may be manipulation more than both of you being spot on. For instance, you both were pushing Voltaire, right? Well, it turns out, he was actually town. Do you think it's more likely that you both had the same scum read on a town player, or that one of you noticed the other had a scum read on Voltaire, and decided to push the other into a scum read on a town member?
You seemed just as intent to believe that EVERY player on the mcmc wagon (that moved to EFHW) was town all reading a (now confirmed) townie the same way.
No, I absolutely don't there's anything suspicious about Robz finding Voltaire suspicious as well.
My flavor is Ian Duncan, Alcoholic Psychology Professor.
I agree that if faust flips scum then Galzria probably is too. Faust could have fake-claimed cured SK today. Either he's town or he didn't think of it.
My flavor is Ian Duncan, Alcoholic Psychology Professor.
I agree that if faust flips scum then Galzria probably is too. Faust could have fake-claimed cured SK today. Either he's town or he didn't think of it.
Who else said that if Faust is scum, Galz is too?
Once I saw the case on mail-mi, it struck me how coordinated the two of you were together. That's when the red flags started. Unfortunately, given that I still don't know what happened with mail-mi, it really takes away my ability to analyze you two.
Robz, Galzria, who would you say "initiated" the case on mail-mi? Was it a simultaneous effort? If there was one person who pointed it out the slip, and the other person agreed with it, who was in what role?
Galz, you stated that tunneling - Robz is town 80% of the time. But he probably knew you thought this, right? Is there a chance he deliberately tunneled Voltaire to get on your good side?
I just looked back on Robz' case on Voltaire. The core of it was that he was sheeping the IC, assuming knowledge (ie, scum team is 5), and that he was a likely third-party and SK candidate. I believe he continued to push Voltaire-Ahoppy as third-party even after their claim?
Even after the best friend claim, Robz didn't trust Voltaire. I presented what I tohught was good evidence as to why Voltaire was town, which Robz looked at and completely dismissed. He was definitely hardcore tunneling Voltaire.
Maybe I'm trusting my logic and its irrefutability too much, but I thought it was pretty good evidence as to why Voltaire was town. Yet Robz didn't even consider it. I think town!Robz might have considered it a bit more.
Basically, what I'm saying, is that there's some evidence Robz may have been tunneling Voltaire for the point of tunneling him, rather than actually thinking he was mafia.
I'm assuming of course that he would have already said something if he was the cured SK, and then we'd have to figure out if he was telling the truth.
I'm going to change to vote: Dsell. He's being evasive, maybe buying time to come up with a claim.
We could use more posting from Ahoppy, our new IC.
I'm assuming of course that he would have already said something if he was the cured SK, and then we'd have to figure out if he was telling the truth.
I'm going to change to vote: Dsell. He's being evasive, maybe buying time to come up with a claim.
This is dumb, by saying what I said before I significantly impaired my ability to fakeclaim if that were indeed what I wanted to do. And I'm not meaning to be evasive, just restricted to mobile for much of the day. Long posts aren't happening on here.
I'm assuming of course that he would have already said something if he was the cured SK, and then we'd have to figure out if he was telling the truth.
I'm going to change to vote: Dsell. He's being evasive, maybe buying time to come up with a claim.
I'm assuming of course that he would have already said something if he was the cured SK, and then we'd have to figure out if he was telling the truth.Agree.
I'm going to change to vote: Dsell. He's being evasive, maybe buying time to come up with a claim.
I don't get this. If he's scum, wouldnt' he have had all night to come up with a claim? I doubt scum are having to scramble for claims, honestly.
Agree.We could use more posting from Ahoppy, our new IC.
I absolutely agree.
Galz, how would you have expected scum Robz to react to your plea of investigating him?
Galzria (and Robz), do you agree that giving the other town points for sharing the incorrect read on Voltaire is really backwards?
Once I saw the case on mail-mi, it struck me how coordinated the two of you were together. That's when the red flags started. Unfortunately, given that I still don't know what happened with mail-mi, it really takes away my ability to analyze you two.
Robz, Galzria, who would you say "initiated" the case on mail-mi? Was it a simultaneous effort? If there was one person who pointed it out the slip, and the other person agreed with it, who was in what role?
The case that Galz and I had on mail-mi is a really weird situation. I believe that I noticed and proposed it, and Galz readily agreed. I can't explain it to you any better than I already have, unfortunately. Let me just say that part of the point was to make mail-mi really afraid of being lynched, so some of it was for show.
I/we were wrong, and of course apologize for that, but really there was no harm done, since mail-mi wasn't lynched over it (he wasn't lynched at all). And Voltgloss gets it and has said you should not suspect us for it. Obviously I am against just sheeping the IC, but in this case, Voltglss is in the know, and you aren't, and you know Voltgloss is town, so just listen to him.
Trust me, once the game is over and I explain it you, I 100% promise your reaction will be: "Oh, okay. My bad."
Galz, you stated that tunneling - Robz is town 80% of the time. But he probably knew you thought this, right? Is there a chance he deliberately tunneled Voltaire to get on your good side?
I just looked back on Robz' case on Voltaire. The core of it was that he was sheeping the IC, assuming knowledge (ie, scum team is 5), and that he was a likely third-party and SK candidate. I believe he continued to push Voltaire-Ahoppy as third-party even after their claim?
Even after the best friend claim, Robz didn't trust Voltaire. I presented what I tohught was good evidence as to why Voltaire was town, which Robz looked at and completely dismissed. He was definitely hardcore tunneling Voltaire.
Maybe I'm trusting my logic and its irrefutability too much, but I thought it was pretty good evidence as to why Voltaire was town. Yet Robz didn't even consider it. I think town!Robz might have considered it a bit more.
Basically, what I'm saying, is that there's some evidence Robz may have been tunneling Voltaire for the point of tunneling him, rather than actually thinking he was mafia.
I thought he could be town. I thought it more likely he was scum.
The problem here is that no matter what I say, you'll claim that it's just impossible for us to have the same reads. You're intent to me seems to be nothing but smear tactics. Against Robz, or Faust, or me. The lining up of your lynches absolutely screams scum to me.
You're not making a hard case on any player. Every case I've seen from you is "it's one town, one scum, let's lynch 'em!".
Well, if you're town, this is really, really bad logic because -what if you're wrong-? Finding one scum on one day is hard enough. Lining up lynch after lynch after lynch under the pretense that "one of them's got to be scum!"
It's just that what I'm seeing is you caring more about not just today, but the lynches on future days as well. If you're scum you KNOW that you're putting town on the block again and again. If you're town, you've no idea. Why aren't you playing to today? Why are you playing to day 4? Or 5? Or 6?
Yes, Robz could be scum. I've no concrete proof that he's not because nobody seemed interested in investigating him when I asked. But if you honestly believe that he's scum, then you need to also believe that he's a Mafia Neighborizing Godfather - because investigation or no he was 100% behind it happening. To the point that he re-requested it in the last post of D1.
It's JUST not bloody likely. I'm sorry. Maybe he is, but he's a damn poor lynch choice based on the information we have.
I agree, this is a valid reason to think Robz is town.Galz, how would you have expected scum Robz to react to your plea of investigating him?
Acknowledge it. Not push it. Not push it as the closing thought to D1 unprompted.
The bickering between TA/Eevee and Galz/Robz is pretty tiresome. TA comes away looking scummiest to me. He seems so confident and provocative, like he is trying to get people to trip up. Saying that Galz and Robz shouldn't trust each other blindly is really nothing revelatory. I am ok with a vote: TA.
The bickering between TA/Eevee and Galz/Robz is pretty tiresome. TA comes away looking scummiest to me. He seems so confident and provocative, like he is trying to get people to trip up. Saying that Galz and Robz shouldn't trust each other blindly is really nothing revelatory. I am ok with a vote: TA.I thought this was a reasonable and useful discussion. :(
Yeah, but you are giving each other town points for taking positions scum loves taking. I know it feels good to have people agree with you, but you got to see this, right?Galzria (and Robz), do you agree that giving the other town points for sharing the incorrect read on Voltaire is really backwards?
I'm certainly not giving him scum points for it, though. It was a good case! I was miffed like no one joined me in. I stand by the case, even though it was wrong.
I mean if Galz is scum and knew Voltaire was not, then he would want to disagree with the case so that I would want to listen to him after I was proven wrong. Right? I mean, who knows, WIFOM and all that, but I'm not looking at him funny because he actually listened to my case.
The bickering between TA/Eevee and Galz/Robz is pretty tiresome. TA comes away looking scummiest to me. He seems so confident and provocative, like he is trying to get people to trip up. Saying that Galz and Robz shouldn't trust each other blindly is really nothing revelatory. I am ok with a vote: TA.
That's about 25% of what I'm saying, but ok.
chairs, what is your flavor-role?
The bickering between TA/Eevee and Galz/Robz is pretty tiresome. TA comes away looking scummiest to me. He seems so confident and provocative, like he is trying to get people to trip up. Saying that Galz and Robz shouldn't trust each other blindly is really nothing revelatory. I am ok with a vote: TA.
That's about 25% of what I'm saying, but ok.
Obviously I'm watering down what you're saying, the point is that I don't agree AND I think it's scummy. Robz and Galz make sense to me, and you seem like you are trying to keep anyone from having a townread on anyone else, which is a total scum thing to do.
The bickering between TA/Eevee and Galz/Robz is pretty tiresome. TA comes away looking scummiest to me. He seems so confident and provocative, like he is trying to get people to trip up. Saying that Galz and Robz shouldn't trust each other blindly is really nothing revelatory. I am ok with a vote: TA.I thought this was a reasonable and useful discussion. :(
chairs, what is your flavor-role?
I, and several other people, could see the merits of the Voltaire case D1. But D2 came, and we had so much more information. Walrus claimed cop with a negative result on Voltaire. Ahoppy claimed freaking best friends, BEST FRIENDS, with Voltaire. Yet Robz STILL, in the face of overwhelming evidence, continued to push Voltaire. He just tunneled him, hard. When there was so much more evidence for Voltaire being town than just about anyone else in the game. It just strikes me, looking back, as so odd.
Yes, the cop thing does give me pause. But ugh. Robz is where I'm looking.
Why are you accusing me of not scumhunting? I am saying why I think Faust and Robz are scum. You, in turn, are defending them, and not looking elsewhere. Just because you disagree with my targets doesn't mean I'm not scumhunting. Who would you rather lynch today, since you odn't like the targets I've proposed?
The bickering between TA/Eevee and Galz/Robz is pretty tiresome. TA comes away looking scummiest to me. He seems so confident and provocative, like he is trying to get people to trip up. Saying that Galz and Robz shouldn't trust each other blindly is really nothing revelatory. I am ok with a vote: TA.
That's about 25% of what I'm saying, but ok.
Obviously I'm watering down what you're saying, the point is that I don't agree AND I think it's scummy. Robz and Galz make sense to me, and you seem like you are trying to keep anyone from having a townread on anyone else, which is a total scum thing to do.
Do you disagree that Robz and Galzria acting like they're masons when they're not is a red flag?
Can we get one more vote on Eevee so we can move our votes to someplace we want them to be?
I, and several other people, could see the merits of the Voltaire case D1. But D2 came, and we had so much more information. Walrus claimed cop with a negative result on Voltaire. Ahoppy claimed freaking best friends, BEST FRIENDS, with Voltaire. Yet Robz STILL, in the face of overwhelming evidence, continued to push Voltaire. He just tunneled him, hard. When there was so much more evidence for Voltaire being town than just about anyone else in the game. It just strikes me, looking back, as so odd.
Yes, the cop thing does give me pause. But ugh. Robz is where I'm looking.
Why are you accusing me of not scumhunting? I am saying why I think Faust and Robz are scum. You, in turn, are defending them, and not looking elsewhere. Just because you disagree with my targets doesn't mean I'm not scumhunting. Who would you rather lynch today, since you odn't like the targets I've proposed?
Man, you are frustrating. I came to think that Voltaire and Ahoppy were a mini scum team. Call it SK or whatever you want. I mean, there's little re-litigating it now, yes I was wrong, you were right, hooray for you. You think it was a bad case, I think it was a solid case, okay. Sure I got too worked up over it, I tihnk because Voltaire made me really mad, and I am truly mortal! I lose it sometimes, he made me lose it. He just... kept... OMGusing me.
And this is fair! You can call me out on being wrong about Voltaire or whatever. I will stand by it.
Not sure what it has anything to do with trusting Galz though. Galz did NOT respond to the case the way I think scum Galz would. And that doesn't say a lot because with WIFOM who knows, but it certainly doesn't say, hey Galz is so scummy!
Yes I agree I should not unquestionably think Galz is town, but I don't think that, and you seem like you want me to suspect him just becaue that's better for you if I do. Not for, you know, actual reasons.
The bickering between TA/Eevee and Galz/Robz is pretty tiresome. TA comes away looking scummiest to me. He seems so confident and provocative, like he is trying to get people to trip up. Saying that Galz and Robz shouldn't trust each other blindly is really nothing revelatory. I am ok with a vote: TA.
That's about 25% of what I'm saying, but ok.
Obviously I'm watering down what you're saying, the point is that I don't agree AND I think it's scummy. Robz and Galz make sense to me, and you seem like you are trying to keep anyone from having a townread on anyone else, which is a total scum thing to do.
Do you disagree that Robz and Galzria acting like they're masons when they're not is a red flag?
How do you know they're acting like masons rather than neighbors? Is the line there really so definite? If I had night and day chat with someone and started out with a healthy dose of suspicion, I think I would feel fairly confident in my read on them by day 3.
I am more concerned with Galz suspecting you than you suspecting Galz, since I find you much more likely to be scum than Galzria.
Didn't Eevee self-vote? Is this tacit admission of being SK? I'm am confused about the circumstances surrounding EFHW's role, I guess.
I think the discussion going on is fruitful.
I would ask that those considering the "balance" issues relating to two Enablers also consider the mcmc-sudgy situation. Because if sudgy is accurately claiming how his role works (or, more accurately, doesn't work now that mcmc is dead), then we effectively had three Enabled roles.
What's the right balance for three Enabled roles?
...I said if faust was town, then galz was scum...My flavor is Ian Duncan, Alcoholic Psychology Professor.
I agree that if faust flips scum then Galzria probably is too. Faust could have fake-claimed cured SK today. Either he's town or he didn't think of it.
Who else said that if Faust is scum, Galz is too?
mail-mi
I think it's possible that Eevee is SK and has a restriction whereby he cannot admit to being SK.
It's possible this is even the most likely thing, since I find Survivor so strange.
He certainly shuld have been Psychologized last night if that was an option, but oh well.
I think it's possible that Eevee is SK and has a restriction whereby he cannot admit to being SK.
It's possible this is even the most likely thing, since I find Survivor so strange.
He certainly shuld have been Psychologized last night if that was an option, but oh well.
Personally, I think the first one is bastard, while the second one isn't. I don't think Survivor is out of the question in a normal game, while I'd absolutely think a posting restriction is.
Query: if EFHW is a SK variant, do we want to lynch her today?
I self-voted, yeah. It's not an admission of being a SK, there are the reasons.Didn't Eevee self-vote? Is this tacit admission of being SK? I'm am confused about the circumstances surrounding EFHW's role, I guess.
I'll let Eevee respond to this.
Robz, you dodged this the last time: You entertained some pretty creative theories when you tried to fit Voltaire to some non-town model. How is survivor "so strange" compared to the mentor-mentee theories? How is it so strange compared to enablers and captains?I think it's possible that Eevee is SK and has a restriction whereby he cannot admit to being SK.
It's possible this is even the most likely thing, since I find Survivor so strange.
He certainly shuld have been Psychologized last night if that was an option, but oh well.
Personally, I think the first one is bastard, while the second one isn't. I don't think Survivor is out of the question in a normal game, while I'd absolutely think a posting restriction is.
I self-voted, yeah. It's not an admission of being a SK, there are the reasons.Didn't Eevee self-vote? Is this tacit admission of being SK? I'm am confused about the circumstances surrounding EFHW's role, I guess.
I'll let Eevee respond to this.
a) I agreed with Robz's notion that I'm the most reasonable target for EHFW's role. It's confusing and antitown to have people vote for someone they don't want lynched, so I wanted to get that distraction out of the way as quickly as possible.
b) It's very much advancing my wincon. I want to survive until the end, if you can trust I'm not a serial killer, you are less likely to lynch me. I want to get targeted.
c) The irony of a situation. How often do you get to self-vote as a survivor?
*EFHW, why didn't you target me last night?
And Vote: TwistedArcher
He wants to "break up" me and Galz, but has given no reasons why I should distrust Galz.
@TA, my point is that if you have a good read by day 3, working with that person is much more sensible than continuing to regard everything they say with heavy scrutiny. I guess I'm unconvinced that they're not regarding each other with appropriate scrutiny, and it feels like you are trying to drive a wedge between them, which is exactly what scum wants to do between townies. And you aren't just doing it with them, you are poo pooing town reads all over the place.
If she isn't, no one should want to do anything bad for poor Eevee anyway. What's she going to do, roleblock me?I self-voted, yeah. It's not an admission of being a SK, there are the reasons.Didn't Eevee self-vote? Is this tacit admission of being SK? I'm am confused about the circumstances surrounding EFHW's role, I guess.
I'll let Eevee respond to this.
a) I agreed with Robz's notion that I'm the most reasonable target for EHFW's role. It's confusing and antitown to have people vote for someone they don't want lynched, so I wanted to get that distraction out of the way as quickly as possible.
b) It's very much advancing my wincon. I want to survive until the end, if you can trust I'm not a serial killer, you are less likely to lynch me. I want to get targeted.
c) The irony of a situation. How often do you get to self-vote as a survivor?
*EFHW, why didn't you target me last night?
You are putting a lot of faith in EFHW being who she says she is.
I self-voted, yeah. It's not an admission of being a SK, there are the reasons.Didn't Eevee self-vote? Is this tacit admission of being SK? I'm am confused about the circumstances surrounding EFHW's role, I guess.
I'll let Eevee respond to this.
a) I agreed with Robz's notion that I'm the most reasonable target for EHFW's role. It's confusing and antitown to have people vote for someone they don't want lynched, so I wanted to get that distraction out of the way as quickly as possible.
b) It's very much advancing my wincon. I want to survive until the end, if you can trust I'm not a serial killer, you are less likely to lynch me. I want to get targeted.
c) The irony of a situation. How often do you get to self-vote as a survivor?
*EFHW, why didn't you target me last night?
You are putting a lot of faith in EFHW being who she says she is.
If she isn't, no one should want to do anything bad for poor Eevee anyway. What's she going to do, roleblock me?I self-voted, yeah. It's not an admission of being a SK, there are the reasons.Didn't Eevee self-vote? Is this tacit admission of being SK? I'm am confused about the circumstances surrounding EFHW's role, I guess.
I'll let Eevee respond to this.
a) I agreed with Robz's notion that I'm the most reasonable target for EHFW's role. It's confusing and antitown to have people vote for someone they don't want lynched, so I wanted to get that distraction out of the way as quickly as possible.
b) It's very much advancing my wincon. I want to survive until the end, if you can trust I'm not a serial killer, you are less likely to lynch me. I want to get targeted.
c) The irony of a situation. How often do you get to self-vote as a survivor?
*EFHW, why didn't you target me last night?
You are putting a lot of faith in EFHW being who she says she is.
Oh, or maybe she's SK who now has Eevee as a viable target. But still, if that's the case, then the LAST person she wants to kill is Eevee.
Robz, you dodged this the last time: You entertained some pretty creative theories when you tried to fit Voltaire to some non-town model. How is survivor "so strange" compared to the mentor-mentee theories? How is it so strange compared to enablers and captains?I think it's possible that Eevee is SK and has a restriction whereby he cannot admit to being SK.
It's possible this is even the most likely thing, since I find Survivor so strange.
He certainly shuld have been Psychologized last night if that was an option, but oh well.
Personally, I think the first one is bastard, while the second one isn't. I don't think Survivor is out of the question in a normal game, while I'd absolutely think a posting restriction is.
Query: if chairs is telling the truth, we should expect to see at least one Mafia player amongst the Community roles. Agree/disagree, and if so, why?I don't know if there is anything to this, and I'm sorry if I'm spoiling the second season of community to someone (if you are just spectating or even if you are a player who really wants to avoid getting spoiled, don't read further), but there is a time in community when senor chang (me) wants to join the study group (britta, annie, troy, abed, shirley, jeff and pierce). In my flavor it is said that if they continue to ignore me, as a survivalist I'm willing to cast them aside and hang out with these newly arrived troublemakers (the modern family people). That could be interpreted as all of the mafia being from modern family, which would be a considerable nerf to a cop that only investigates community people. One cop has to claim instantly, the other can only investigate people who are town. Sound reasonable?
And Vote: TwistedArcher
He wants to "break up" me and Galz, but has given no reasons why I should distrust Galz.
I am not trying to break you up, I am trying to see if there's scum among you two! I think it's likely there is, given how much you two trust one another -- I think there's manipulation among you two.
That makes sense, thanks. I agree it's not the greatest of roles for the reasons you mentioned, but I got to roll with what I was given.Robz, you dodged this the last time: You entertained some pretty creative theories when you tried to fit Voltaire to some non-town model. How is survivor "so strange" compared to the mentor-mentee theories? How is it so strange compared to enablers and captains?I think it's possible that Eevee is SK and has a restriction whereby he cannot admit to being SK.
It's possible this is even the most likely thing, since I find Survivor so strange.
He certainly shuld have been Psychologized last night if that was an option, but oh well.
Personally, I think the first one is bastard, while the second one isn't. I don't think Survivor is out of the question in a normal game, while I'd absolutely think a posting restriction is.
Don't mean to dodge, stuff is flying in fast.
Survivor is strange because it's really hard to win as. Serial Killer is hard to win as--you are just a SK with less power and control. And this is a big game--which should also make surviving harder--and an ostensibly normal one. What do you mean, compared to mentor-mentee theories? I don't know what you mean by that. Well, if you mean those roles are strange, and enabler and captains are strange... they aren't nearly as strange as Survivor. Survivor is a strange WIN CON, I guess, more than a strange role. The circumstances under which you claim that you would win are fishy to me because of the size of this game, the fact that there are two killing factions, etc.
Query: if chairs is telling the truth, we should expect to see at least one Mafia player amongst the Community roles. Agree/disagree, and if so, why?
Query: if chairs is telling the truth, we should expect to see at least one Mafia player amongst the Community roles. Agree/disagree, and if so, why?
I might be missing something, but I don't understand why you say that.
Query: if chairs is telling the truth, we should expect to see at least one Mafia player amongst the Community roles. Agree/disagree, and if so, why?
I might be missing something, but I don't understand why you say that.
I don't know if there is anything to this, and I'm sorry if I'm spoiling the second season of community to someone (if you are just spectating or even if you are a player who really wants to avoid getting spoiled, don't read further), but there is a time in community when senor chang (me) wants to join the study group (britta, annie, troy, abed, shirley, jeff and pierce).
Because it's a great nerf, especially if you don't tell the cop about it?Query: if chairs is telling the truth, we should expect to see at least one Mafia player amongst the Community roles. Agree/disagree, and if so, why?
I might be missing something, but I don't understand why you say that.
The question I am grappling with is, "would the mods put a cop in the game who can only investigate half the players - and then put all of the mafia in the other half?"
Yes. It's also quite villanous. So is senor chang, but chang is even more of a survivor than he is a bad guy so I approve of this choice by the mods.I don't know if there is anything to this, and I'm sorry if I'm spoiling the second season of community to someone (if you are just spectating or even if you are a player who really wants to avoid getting spoiled, don't read further), but there is a time in community when senor chang (me) wants to join the study group (britta, annie, troy, abed, shirley, jeff and pierce).
So EFHW's claimed role is also not part of the "study group."
Xeiron's cop had a nerf too. I think it's actually a brilliant idea. Did you see the possible hint I paraphrased from my pm? I'm liking this theory more and more, especially as the hint was given to someone who isn't town-aligned.Query: if chairs is telling the truth, we should expect to see at least one Mafia player amongst the Community roles. Agree/disagree, and if so, why?
I might be missing something, but I don't understand why you say that.
I agree with Voltgloss here.
Robz, Chairs only investigates Community. What are the odds that we have a cop that... can't get a result on scum because they're all from the other show?
I mean, it would seriously nerf him - which again adds balance to the idea that this game isn't as RMM as it seems. But that would still make him an IC generator.
I dunno. I think having a community cop suggests community scum. But I could see it being otherwise. I don't know if lynch based on that assumption.
Query: if chairs is telling the truth, we should expect to see at least one Mafia player amongst the Community roles. Agree/disagree, and if so, why?
I might be missing something, but I don't understand why you say that.
I agree with Voltgloss here.
Robz, Chairs only investigates Community. What are the odds that we have a cop that... can't get a result on scum because they're all from the other show?
I mean, it would seriously nerf him - which again adds balance to the idea that this game isn't as RMM as it seems. But that would still make him an IC generator.
I dunno. I think having a community cop suggests community scum. But I could see it being otherwise. I don't know if lynch based on that assumption.
Query: if chairs is telling the truth, we should expect to see at least one Mafia player amongst the Community roles. Agree/disagree, and if so, why?
I might be missing something, but I don't understand why you say that.
I agree with Voltgloss here.
Robz, Chairs only investigates Community. What are the odds that we have a cop that... can't get a result on scum because they're all from the other show?
I mean, it would seriously nerf him - which again adds balance to the idea that this game isn't as RMM as it seems. But that would still make him an IC generator.
I dunno. I think having a community cop suggests community scum. But I could see it being otherwise. I don't know if lynch based on that assumption.
No he isn't!! His results are perfectly accurate, he is just unknowingly unable of investigating anyone who is mafia. To me this makes perfect sense, even more so than just randomly restricting the cop's target pool to half of the players.
He's just like a Naive Cop, otherwise. Which is possible, though a bit bastardly. Though again, this game may actually have bastard elements.
I believe ash and yuma when they say the game has no bastard elements.Why would you consider a cop that's unknowingly restricted from investigating mafia bastardly? I think it's brilliant, and a logical pair to Xeiron's force-claim cop.
Particularly if chairs has no MF equivalent (and there are fewer and fewer unclaimed people who could be his equivalent).
Particularly if chairs has no MF equivalent (and there are fewer and fewer unclaimed people who could be his equivalent).
Not sure what you mean here, Robz.
I believe ash and yuma when they say the game has no bastard elements.Why would you consider a cop that's unknowingly restricted from investigating mafia bastardly? I think it's brilliant, and a logical pair to Xeiron's force-claim cop.
Query: if chairs is telling the truth, we should expect to see at least one Mafia player amongst the Community roles. Agree/disagree, and if so, why?
I might be missing something, but I don't understand why you say that.
I agree with Voltgloss here.
Robz, Chairs only investigates Community. What are the odds that we have a cop that... can't get a result on scum because they're all from the other show?
I mean, it would seriously nerf him - which again adds balance to the idea that this game isn't as RMM as it seems. But that would still make him an IC generator.
I dunno. I think having a community cop suggests community scum. But I could see it being otherwise. I don't know if lynch based on that assumption.
The other possibility, of course, is that chairs is scum.
@TA, my point is that if you have a good read by day 3, working with that person is much more sensible than continuing to regard everything they say with heavy scrutiny. I guess I'm unconvinced that they're not regarding each other with appropriate scrutiny, and it feels like you are trying to drive a wedge between them, which is exactly what scum wants to do between townies. And you aren't just doing it with them, you are poo pooing town reads all over the place.
Really? Tell me where I do this, and then tell me exactly how it's different than how I'm supposed to be scum hunting. Finding someone scummy does not mean I'm "poo pooing" town reads, it means that I'm actually trying to, you know, find scum! This is a pretty baseless accusation.
Dsell, besides me (and your read on me would have only developed in the past ~5 pages), who do YOU find scummy?
I have a number of reasons to trust Galzria.
First, I CHOSE him. It would be really bad luck if I picked scum. I think townies working together in a QT together is an underrated, superpowerful PR (it really won the day in the last huge game, Mafia XI). It's almost like, well, if I picked Galz and he was scum, that's just really bad luck of the draw and there's nothing I could have done. But there are huge, huge, huge, huge benefits to assuming he is town and working with him. In trusting him, I'm banking on my turn 1 and 2 buys to not collide next shuffle, to use a Dominion term (and they are statistically unlikely to collide).
Okay, obviously that doesn't count for much with you, sure. Beyond that, I do think Galz is a player I have a comparatively easier time reading. I really did nail him as scum in the last game we both played together, Pick Your Posion 2 (don't remember the number). Galz is different as scum. Specifically, he's shorter, he's much more of a lurker, he's a follower rather than a leader, he doesn't propose as many plans, he's much more reactionary, etc. I mean I'm generalizing, but that's what I think at least.
Specific to this game, I think his whole ENabler reveal thing was prety townie. Pretty him-townie. I mean I think it was a little silly and didn't acquit him at all the way he thought it did which initially made me suspicious--but that's town Galz. Town Galz thinks he is a townie basking in his towniness and and all shall partake in it as he reveals this to us through his schemes.
Now look, I have 200 more posts of his to analyze than the rest of you do. I have high confidence that he's town. I'm far from certain, and I know I'm often wrong! But I just have this sense that if I got this wrong, well, I got really unlucky from the get-go and was probably pretty screwed.
Paranoia of everyone is par for the course for town members. Trusting someone you don't have reason to trust (fake town reads, basically) is a characteristic I think is more attributable to scum. [Saying that Galz and Robz have no reason to trust each other seems ludicrous]
You both seem to have a bit of blind trust, which is I guess explainable, but not what I'd expect from two town players. I'd expect a lot more suspicion and distrust, which I haven't seen. [Suspicion and distrust are critical parts of the game! Several people still alive are without a doubt trying to mislead us. However, you point out one of your own flaws here...you haven't seen it. They have a qt, where they've allegedly expressed some of this, as well as tests to try to catch the other player being scummy. In addition to all of that, the town is already suspicious and distrustful without you telling us to be that way. When you repeat it, it seems like you're emphasizing the fact that no one is above suspicion and no one is off the table but the ICs. Which is what scum wants to do when 2 ICs are alive and other players have strong town reads on each other.]
Galz: I have much the same thought as you have. I am still leaning toward having faust (and maybe everyone) fullclaim though.
I agree that Faust should fullclaim.
Voltgloss, if you think that Faust is town, then do you still think Galzria is town? Scum/town and town/town doesn't make much sense in my eyes. I'd expect either scum/scum and town/town or scum/town and scum/town. [After Galz and Volt say that circumstances make it unlikely that Faust is scum, you counter it with this, and then later vote for him. Certainly they are not infallible, but countering a townread with just supposed symmetry? It feels weak. I have no reason to believe or expect that this kind of symmetry exists.]
EFHW's role is so fishy to me. I can't quite put my finger on it, but I'm getting really bad vibes from it. [Ok, this isn't the greatest example because nobody's rushing to give EFHW townpoints. But add it to the heap of people you don't want to have towncred.]
The bickering between TA/Eevee and Galz/Robz is pretty tiresome. TA comes away looking scummiest to me. He seems so confident and provocative, like he is trying to get people to trip up. Saying that Galz and Robz shouldn't trust each other blindly is really nothing revelatory. I am ok with a vote: TA.I thought this was a reasonable and useful discussion. :(
It started out fine, and honestly any discussion is good if it can help give you a read on someone (like I am getting on TA), but it doesn't seem like you guys are getting anywhere.
Once again, though, due to symmetry, I think it's impossible for both of you to be scum. So this isn't you covering for a partner, I think it's just me disagreeing with you.
As for symmetry, I think it's something that Ash has used before (LoTR1), and that I think he would usually aim for in his game designs. Having one pair be town-town and the other town-scum would be really confusing, and mislead town. I just don't think that's what we're dealing with here...
Faust lynch will be very informative about galz.
But now, he's just a doctor, and he gets to control his targets. I don't think a mafia doctor is out of the question in a game with a Serial Killer.
Efhw: Because of the flavor. It's a 99% certainty that it was/is Galzria-shraeye and archetype-faust.
@Galzria
So you are that sure TA is scum and I mostly agree with his probing, what does that name me? We mustn't let emotion cloud our judgement, please help me here. You think he is lining up his town lynches, what else?
I self-voted, yeah. It's not an admission of being a SK, there are the reasons.Didn't Eevee self-vote? Is this tacit admission of being SK? I'm am confused about the circumstances surrounding EFHW's role, I guess.
I'll let Eevee respond to this.
a) I agreed with Robz's notion that I'm the most reasonable target for EHFW's role. It's confusing and antitown to have people vote for someone they don't want lynched, so I wanted to get that distraction out of the way as quickly as possible.
b) It's very much advancing my wincon. I want to survive until the end, if you can trust I'm not a serial killer, you are less likely to lynch me. I want to get targeted.
c) The irony of a situation. How often do you get to self-vote as a survivor?
*EFHW, why didn't you target me last night?
Why the snarkiness? For me this has been the most fun I've had in his game this far, I love trying to figure things out. I feel that "your side" is constantly letting frustration cloud your judgement and rule your decisionmaking instead of logic and considering the facts. It really was a genuine question: why shouldn't I trust him?Efhw: Because of the flavor. It's a 99% certainty that it was/is Galzria-shraeye and archetype-faust.
@Galzria
So you are that sure TA is scum and I mostly agree with his probing, what does that name me? We mustn't let emotion cloud our judgement, please help me here. You think he is lining up his town lynches, what else?
Hey Eevee, why do you trust TA so blindly? Ever think he might be scum? Maybe you should consider he's just using you by misleading and playing off everything you state and believe.
/sarcasm
And the same with less words:Efhw: Because of the flavor. It's a 99% certainty that it was/is Galzria-shraeye and archetype-faust.
@Galzria
So you are that sure TA is scum and I mostly agree with his probing, what does that name me? We mustn't let emotion cloud our judgement, please help me here. You think he is lining up his town lynches, what else?
Hey Eevee, why do you trust TA so blindly? Ever think he might be scum? Maybe you should consider he's just using you by misleading and playing off everything you state and believe.
/sarcasm
You are probably correct that I am getting galzria and robz into a damned if you do damned if you don't situation regarding the questions I am asking. I will try to take a step back and see how much sense this makes from a perspective where they are both town.
Why the snarkiness? For me this has been the most fun I've had in his game this far, I love trying to figure things out. I feel that "your side" is constantly letting frustration cloud your judgement and rule your decisionmaking instead of logic and considering the facts. It really was a genuine question: why shouldn't I trust him?Efhw: Because of the flavor. It's a 99% certainty that it was/is Galzria-shraeye and archetype-faust.
@Galzria
So you are that sure TA is scum and I mostly agree with his probing, what does that name me? We mustn't let emotion cloud our judgement, please help me here. You think he is lining up his town lynches, what else?
Hey Eevee, why do you trust TA so blindly? Ever think he might be scum? Maybe you should consider he's just using you by misleading and playing off everything you state and believe.
/sarcasm
I think he is town because we've seen eye to eye on most issues this far, and the stances he/we have taken support the town-narrative with the information/reads I currently have. He certainly hasn't done anything scum TA would never do, so I'm very much open to being convinced, "he is scum and lining up his mislynches" isn't enough to make me change my mind however.
I have to admit I'm surprised everyone is mad at TA and sure he is mafia. Why him but not me? I felt this way when Voltaire was under heavy undeserved suspicion yesterday as well, and it makes me feel more confident in my TA read.
Galzria, I think you are likely town. I think the pieces to this puzzle are in front of us. I don't understand why we disagree so much on what piece goes where, and I'd like to find a communication channel because it's like way easier to find scum when town isn't fighting with each other. Ahoppy and Voltgloss are town, other than that everyone is an intriguing mystery. Let's work together to solve it!
sorry, that only works if Robz is town.
...I said if faust was town, then galz was scum...My flavor is Ian Duncan, Alcoholic Psychology Professor.
I agree that if faust flips scum then Galzria probably is too. Faust could have fake-claimed cured SK today. Either he's town or he didn't think of it.
Who else said that if Faust is scum, Galz is too?
mail-mi
You are probably correct that I am getting galzria and robz into a damned if you do damned if you don't situation regarding the questions I am asking. I will try to take a step back and see how much sense this makes from a perspective where they are both town.
The chances are approximately 75% that they are both town. Robz had 20 people to choose from. Estimating 5 scum of whatever kind means 15 town.
I've said this before, but has anyone considered that there may be a small mafia team - like 3 or even 2? In a huge game like this, the chances of being lynched or nk'd are much smaller, and fewer lynches means less information from interactions etc.
sorry, that only works if Robz is town.
Yep. Him or Faust. And I absolutely believe both are.
This is the post that I made to Robz after the flip of Arche:
"Well. This presents an interesting question:
We already have one instance of town enabling scum (Me:Shraeye). What are the odds we have it twice (Archetype:Faust)? Would Faust have claimed? If he's scum, he would know that Archetype was likely town (exception; double scum factions. But being both from MF, reasonable assumption). He would also knowingly be hammering away his own PR. Does scum, down a teammate, do those things? What's more, would NEWBIE scum do so?
I don't think so. I think this is fairly damn acquitting for Faust. It's possible he's scum still, but I just don't see Shraeye's partner using his claim to push a lynch that he knows is town and will strip his role."
I just don't see that play from scum!Faust. I honestly don't.
Galz: I have much the same thought as you have. I am still leaning toward having faust (and maybe everyone) fullclaim though.
Galzria -- I think a large portion of TA's frustration is due to the secrecy around the mail-mi wagon. Is secrecy really helping you that much?
sorry, that only works if Robz is town.
Yep. Him or Faust. And I absolutely believe both are.
I actually meant my 75% thing, but it works for what you said, too. Is there anything else TA has done that is scummy? It's easy to get caught up in annoyance about the current pressure. Is there other evidence to strengthen your case?
We have TA who is 95% sure exactly one of Galzria and faust is scum (why is it that 98% of the time anyone but theorel gives a percentage figure here, they exaggerate?) and lists them both being town more likely than both being scum, mailmi who agrees with TA (with less proclaimed certainty) and efhw who sees it completely opposite.
EFHF, given archetype was town and enabled scum shraeye, why do you think that?
Thanks!This is the post that I made to Robz after the flip of Arche:
"Well. This presents an interesting question:
We already have one instance of town enabling scum (Me:Shraeye). What are the odds we have it twice (Archetype:Faust)? Would Faust have claimed? If he's scum, he would know that Archetype was likely town (exception; double scum factions. But being both from MF, reasonable assumption). He would also knowingly be hammering away his own PR. Does scum, down a teammate, do those things? What's more, would NEWBIE scum do so?
I don't think so. I think this is fairly damn acquitting for Faust. It's possible he's scum still, but I just don't see Shraeye's partner using his claim to push a lynch that he knows is town and will strip his role."
I just don't see that play from scum!Faust. I honestly don't.
Yea, that should say "Galzria who we think is town". getting tired, got stuck phone posting from bed once again. got to wake up in 4.5 hours, yikes.We have TA who is 95% sure exactly one of Galzria and faust is scum (why is it that 98% of the time anyone but theorel gives a percentage figure here, they exaggerate?) and lists them both being town more likely than both being scum, mailmi who agrees with TA (with less proclaimed certainty) and efhw who sees it completely opposite.
EFHF, given archetype was town and enabled scum shraeye, why do you think that?
Archetype did not enable Shraeye. I did.
I think you are very likely closing the barn door after the horse has already escaped.Galzria -- I think a large portion of TA's frustration is due to the secrecy around the mail-mi wagon. Is secrecy really helping you that much?
If *I* didn't think it was, I'd say what it was.
If *Robz* didn't think it was, he'd say what it was.
If VOLTGLOSS didn't think it was, he'd say what it was.
What more do you WANT?
forum mafia: teaching Eevee awesome expressions since 2012.I think you are very likely closing the barn door after the horse has already escaped.Galzria -- I think a large portion of TA's frustration is due to the secrecy around the mail-mi wagon. Is secrecy really helping you that much?
If *I* didn't think it was, I'd say what it was.
If *Robz* didn't think it was, he'd say what it was.
If VOLTGLOSS didn't think it was, he'd say what it was.
What more do you WANT?
TA was quieter--less commanding--than usual on Day 1-2.
We have TA who is 95% sure exactly one of Galzria and faust is scum (why is it that 98% of the time anyone but theorel gives a percentage figure here, they exaggerate?) and lists them both being town more likely than both being scum, mailmi who agrees with TA (with less proclaimed certainty) and efhw who sees it completely opposite.
EFHF, given archetype was town and enabled scum shraeye, why do you think that?
I'm not sure what it says about my reads / gameplay that my biggest supporter isn't even town :Pthis had me laughing out loud. almost forgot what a misfit I am for a second there.
Galz, I'm sorry you're taking the case personally. I certainly don't mean it that way towards you, Robz, Faust, or anyone.
I see your frustration being caught up in both situations. They're honestly two unrelated situations, and I do think you're the more likely town member in both of them.
As for me "lining up my mislynches", EFHW asked me who I thought would be more informative, so I answered. If that quesiton had been asked up anyone, it could be interpreted that way.
My main assumption is assuming symmetry, which I don't think is quite as ridiculous as you're making it sound. In a choice between symmetry and asymmetry (and this would be asymmetry -- not just a lack of symmetry), most people will choose symmetry. There's examples of Ashersky using symmetry before (LOTR2). I just think it makes more sense. I'm not syaing it will PROVE you're town if Faust is scum, or vice versa, but it would give me a strong inclination.
Please don't resort to self-voting -- I do not have it out for you, believe it or not. I would much rather see Robz or Faust lynched than you, or a lot of other players honestly. My vote for Faust is slightly related to you, since I think that you being town (which I think you are) makes him more likely scum, but there's a lot more to it. I'd very possibly be voting him without the symmetry issue.
Sorry if this feels personal -- I promise it's not -- but let me know if you want me to tone it down a little and I will try to.
I believe Archetype's claim. I believe he's an Enabler. I also believe he's scum.
The symmetry is wonderful. He and Shraeye match, but because Archetype is redacted, they don't know if they -match each other-. I absolutely believe that there's another Enabled player in the game right now, FROM Modern Family, and they're TOWN.
Scum enable town.
Town enable scum.
It's wonderful. It makes sense. If Archetype were from Community, I would think otherwise. But I absolutely believe there's a symmetry going on here. Especially because I just now bothered to compare my flavor to Shraeye's.
I'm Phil Dunphy, World Coolest Dad. From what I gather, I don't care much about disciplining my kids. I care more about making them like me. By giving them what they want. By enabling them.
The thing about TA for me has not been so much that he is trying to line up lynches (though I see the case there, too), but that he's been:
1) Really confident in his own reads
2) Quick to undermine others' confidence in their reads
And that reads scummy to me.
If he won't get voted, then I will happily vote myself instead, flip town, and with my dying words implore a Vig or SK to shoot him.
If he won't get voted, then I will happily vote myself instead, flip town, and with my dying words implore a Vig or SK to shoot him.
Galz, please do not vote yourself, or I will have to vote you and continue voting you until you are dead.
I am done with self-voting.
I've said this before, but has anyone considered that there may be a small mafia team - like 3 or even 2? In a huge game like this, the chances of being lynched or nk'd are much smaller, and fewer lynches means less information from interactions etc.
If he won't get voted, then I will happily vote myself instead, flip town, and with my dying words implore a Vig or SK to shoot him.
Galz, please do not vote yourself, or I will have to vote you and continue voting you until you are dead.
I am done with self-voting.
If I felt it was in the best interest of the town, I absolutely would.
Also, would someone happen to have all the claims compiled somewhere? Might be helpful to see them in one place, maybe make it easier to spot the ones that seem out of place and fake.
I do think it's possible faust saw an opportunity to push a town lynch through and decided to seize it. I don't feel very confident in my abilities to predict how "newbie scum" or faust specifically would react to that situation, but I agree laying low seems more likely than what he did.
I am Haley Dunphy. My secondary win con is to get to l-1 with only male flavor roles voting for me.my secondary win con is to be between you and Claire (whoever that is) in a final vote count. Ugh.
bocaJ, do you have any thoughts of a scumhunting nature?
@mail-mi: Did you roleblock me last night?
If I don't see an objection to me claiming by the time I log in (and mail-mi has answered), I'll do it tomorrow when I'm at work.
1-shot. I did not.I am willing to claim at this point. I need to know if anyone Roleblocked me last night though (it's relevant).
Did mail-mi claim roleblocker? Or was that someone else?
I did not roleblock you last night.
Also, bocaJ makes me feel uneasy. I can't remember any substantial posts in the past beside his claim, and that claim is suspicious in itself. We have lots and lots of PRs, so that in the end it's almost negative utility. Well, I guess that's possible, nkiribit was negative utility as well. But bocaJ always seems to get a pass because "a newbie wouldn't do that". He could have gotten instructions, so that doesn't acquit him.
Can someone more familiar with Modern Family tell me if bocaJ's claim makes sense from a flavor perspective?What was his flavor name?
Can someone more familiar with Modern Family tell me if bocaJ's claim makes sense from a flavor perspective?What was his flavor name?
I ask bocaJ to give a full flavor claim.
I am Claire Dunphy, a Stressed Out Mother and as already noted, 2-shot PGO.
I double checked my PM, and my PGO ability is only triggered during the night, so if anyone has a power role they can use to verify this during the day, go for it without risk.
The thing about TA for me has not been so much that he is trying to line up lynches (though I see the case there, too), but that he's been:
1) Really confident in his own reads
2) Quick to undermine others' confidence in their reads
And that reads scummy to me.
Go read Clue to see how confident I can be in my reads. Or ask Eevee. (I am nowhere near as confident now as I was then)
When he initially claimed, I was surprised at it only being two-shot. Doesn't make sense thematically, a mother of three stops being paranoid after two incidents?Can someone more familiar with Modern Family tell me if bocaJ's claim makes sense from a flavor perspective?What was his flavor name?
I forget, but I think it was a woman from MF. Claire, maybe? Yes, his last post says he is Claire.
In Clue, TA and ashersky got in an epic shouting match and dominated the discussion for two days, both being convinced the other is scum. TA certainly was very stubborn and confident there, but in general, I haven't noticed that in him much. I usually think he is reasonable, including in this game.The thing about TA for me has not been so much that he is trying to line up lynches (though I see the case there, too), but that he's been:
1) Really confident in his own reads
2) Quick to undermine others' confidence in their reads
And that reads scummy to me.
Go read Clue to see how confident I can be in my reads. Or ask Eevee. (I am nowhere near as confident now as I was then)
Eevee I know you have a bit of a dog in this fight, but can you confirm this? He is highly confident in his reads as town?
@mail-mi: Did you roleblock me last night?No
If I don't see an objection to me claiming by the time I log in (and mail-mi has answered), I'll do it tomorrow when I'm at work.
This could also be scum Jorbles, who shot Eevee hoping he'd be SK and failed. That would make Eevee SK.
Also because I'm not contesting Jorbles's claim - I'm confirming it!This could also be scum Jorbles, who shot Eevee hoping he'd be SK and failed. That would make Eevee SK.
No, this is probably wrong because mafia almost definitely shot Walrus, so unless we have an unclaimed vig or mafia got an extra night kill, this is wrong.
I can confirm Jorbles can shoot, I was indeed 1-shot bulletproof. I thought it was better to left it unclaimed for possible end-game shenanigans. I'm also one-shot lynchproof if all cards need be laid out on the table.So you can confirm that he shot you? I.e. you know your bulletproof-ness is gone?
So, as I'm not a sensible kill choice for either mafia or a serial killer, I think Jorbles is pretty much confirmed town. Again, I'm totes all for EFHW targeting me if you are worried I'm a serial killer. I agree it's a reasonable suspicion, although I don't agree with your flavor assessment - this asian dude faked being qualified to teach spaning or even knowing spanish, and moved to the school's air ventilation pipes after getting kicked out of his home by his wife. What is he if not a survivor?
I can confirm Jorbles can shoot, I was indeed 1-shot bulletproof. I thought it was better to left it unclaimed for possible end-game shenanigans. I'm also one-shot lynchproof if all cards need be laid out on the table.
So, as I'm not a sensible kill choice for either mafia or a serial killer, I think Jorbles is pretty much confirmed town. Again, I'm totes all for EFHW targeting me if you are worried I'm a serial killer. I agree it's a reasonable suspicion, although I don't agree with your flavor assessment - this asian dude faked being qualified to teach spaning or even knowing spanish, and moved to the school's air ventilation pipes after getting kicked out of his home by his wife. What is he if not a survivor?
*long = loneI can confirm Jorbles can shoot, I was indeed 1-shot bulletproof. I thought it was better to left it unclaimed for possible end-game shenanigans. I'm also one-shot lynchproof if all cards need be laid out on the table.
So, as I'm not a sensible kill choice for either mafia or a serial killer, I think Jorbles is pretty much confirmed town. Again, I'm totes all for EFHW targeting me if you are worried I'm a serial killer. I agree it's a reasonable suspicion, although I don't agree with your flavor assessment - this asian dude faked being qualified to teach spaning or even knowing spanish, and moved to the school's air ventilation pipes after getting kicked out of his home by his wife. What is he if not a survivor?
BIG SPOILER ALERT FOR COMMUNITY, YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED:
But Senor Chang was also the long* gunman in the first paintball episode put in when it looked like a student might win the game. He also removed the Dean and took over the school with a group of young boys, getting the study group expelled. Both work well when tied thematically to a Serial Killer, plus the entire study group says things like "Chang is crazy, in almost every story line about him."
Yeah, I do understand it fits serial killer, but I disagree it wouldn't fit survivor equally well. The latest seasons of community are so bad that I almost don't want to count them.I can confirm Jorbles can shoot, I was indeed 1-shot bulletproof. I thought it was better to left it unclaimed for possible end-game shenanigans. I'm also one-shot lynchproof if all cards need be laid out on the table.
So, as I'm not a sensible kill choice for either mafia or a serial killer, I think Jorbles is pretty much confirmed town. Again, I'm totes all for EFHW targeting me if you are worried I'm a serial killer. I agree it's a reasonable suspicion, although I don't agree with your flavor assessment - this asian dude faked being qualified to teach spaning or even knowing spanish, and moved to the school's air ventilation pipes after getting kicked out of his home by his wife. What is he if not a survivor?
BIG SPOILER ALERT FOR COMMUNITY, YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED:
But Senor Chang was also the long gunman in the first paintball episode put in when it looked like a student might win the game. He also removed the Dean and took over the school with a group of young boys, getting the study group expelled. Both work well when tied thematically to a Serial Killer, plus the entire study group says things like "Chang is crazy, in almost every story line about him."
The way Faust has said absolutely nothing about the wagon on him makes me more sure on his scumminess. Also, I could vote for bocaJ.What do you want me to say? "Oh, please don't lynch me, I'm town!"? I mean, I was quite sure I would be under scrunity D3 as soon as I saw Arch's flip. So I didn't react strongly to the wagon on me because I was already expecting it.
I am an X-shot Compulsive Vigilante
If two of Voltgloss, AHoppy and myself are convinced that it is to town's benefit to reveal how many shots I have left, I will.
There's always so much going on while I'm asleep...
I probably need to take a closer look at the whole TA/Galz/Robz thing. One thing that I found immediately suspicious is that while TA thinks I'm scummy for not wanting to full-claim right away (by the way, remind me again why I should do that?), he doesn't find Dsell scummy at all for the same thing.
I'm also increasingly suspicious of EFHW. Somebody mentioned (looked back, it was Robz) she could be a SK that only gets to kill people who reached half L-1? If that's a concern, why do we push people to half L-1? If noone would have gotten there, EFHW wouldn't be able to night-kill. But I guess it's too late for that. Still, seeing that Galz and Robz apparently discussed that possibility and didn't suggest not pushing people to half L-1 seems strange. Did you eventually conclude that it's too unlikely for EFHW to have that role?
I can confirm Jorbles can shoot, I was indeed 1-shot bulletproof. I thought it was better to left it unclaimed for possible end-game shenanigans. I'm also one-shot lynchproof if all cards need be laid out on the table.
So, as I'm not a sensible kill choice for either mafia or a serial killer, I think Jorbles is pretty much confirmed town. Again, I'm totes all for EFHW targeting me if you are worried I'm a serial killer. I agree it's a reasonable suspicion, although I don't agree with your flavor assessment - this asian dude faked being qualified to teach spaning or even knowing spanish, and moved to the school's air ventilation pipes after getting kicked out of his home by his wife. What is he if not a survivor?
Okay, now with Jorbles' claim out, I think it is beneficial for town if I full-claim as well.
I am Gloria Pritchett, Trophy Wife, Enabled Jailkeeper.
Night 1 I jailkept Galzria because I thought he enables me. So that might be why we haven't seen three deaths N1.
I'm waiting for ash to confirm how it works is exactly, I've been under the impression the lynch would just fail and the day would continue, but when claiming I realized it's not explicitly stated. I'll let you know when ash gets back to me. I'm also waiting for him to clarify how much I can reveal about my flavor, the fact that no one seems interested in my "all the mafia are modern family" theory makes me believe in it even more!I can confirm Jorbles can shoot, I was indeed 1-shot bulletproof. I thought it was better to left it unclaimed for possible end-game shenanigans. I'm also one-shot lynchproof if all cards need be laid out on the table.
So, as I'm not a sensible kill choice for either mafia or a serial killer, I think Jorbles is pretty much confirmed town. Again, I'm totes all for EFHW targeting me if you are worried I'm a serial killer. I agree it's a reasonable suspicion, although I don't agree with your flavor assessment - this asian dude faked being qualified to teach spaning or even knowing spanish, and moved to the school's air ventilation pipes after getting kicked out of his home by his wife. What is he if not a survivor?
You are 1-shot lynchproof? What does that mean? Why would you not explain this? If we lynch you, we will fail and proceed to night, or what?
But if there would have been NO target for EFHW, we could have tested the EFHW=SK theory. And you didn't prevent anyone from making me a target for EFHW.There's always so much going on while I'm asleep...
I probably need to take a closer look at the whole TA/Galz/Robz thing. One thing that I found immediately suspicious is that while TA thinks I'm scummy for not wanting to full-claim right away (by the way, remind me again why I should do that?), he doesn't find Dsell scummy at all for the same thing.
I'm also increasingly suspicious of EFHW. Somebody mentioned (looked back, it was Robz) she could be a SK that only gets to kill people who reached half L-1? If that's a concern, why do we push people to half L-1? If noone would have gotten there, EFHW wouldn't be able to night-kill. But I guess it's too late for that. Still, seeing that Galz and Robz apparently discussed that possibility and didn't suggest not pushing people to half L-1 seems strange. Did you eventually conclude that it's too unlikely for EFHW to have that role?
As I've explained--for the third time now!--I only advocated getting Eevee to this point, because Eevee is not town-aligned so who cares if it's bad for him.
But if there would have been NO target for EFHW, we could have tested the EFHW=SK theory. And you didn't prevent anyone from making me a target for EFHW.There's always so much going on while I'm asleep...
I probably need to take a closer look at the whole TA/Galz/Robz thing. One thing that I found immediately suspicious is that while TA thinks I'm scummy for not wanting to full-claim right away (by the way, remind me again why I should do that?), he doesn't find Dsell scummy at all for the same thing.
I'm also increasingly suspicious of EFHW. Somebody mentioned (looked back, it was Robz) she could be a SK that only gets to kill people who reached half L-1? If that's a concern, why do we push people to half L-1? If noone would have gotten there, EFHW wouldn't be able to night-kill. But I guess it's too late for that. Still, seeing that Galz and Robz apparently discussed that possibility and didn't suggest not pushing people to half L-1 seems strange. Did you eventually conclude that it's too unlikely for EFHW to have that role?
As I've explained--for the third time now!--I only advocated getting Eevee to this point, because Eevee is not town-aligned so who cares if it's bad for him.
I'm waiting for ash to confirm how it works is exactly, I've been under the impression the lynch would just fail and the day would continue, but when claiming I realized it's not explicitly stated. I'll let you know when ash gets back to me. I'm also waiting for him to clarify how much I can reveal about my flavor, the fact that no one seems interested in my "all the mafia are modern family" theory makes me believe in it even more!I can confirm Jorbles can shoot, I was indeed 1-shot bulletproof. I thought it was better to left it unclaimed for possible end-game shenanigans. I'm also one-shot lynchproof if all cards need be laid out on the table.
So, as I'm not a sensible kill choice for either mafia or a serial killer, I think Jorbles is pretty much confirmed town. Again, I'm totes all for EFHW targeting me if you are worried I'm a serial killer. I agree it's a reasonable suspicion, although I don't agree with your flavor assessment - this asian dude faked being qualified to teach spaning or even knowing spanish, and moved to the school's air ventilation pipes after getting kicked out of his home by his wife. What is he if not a survivor?
You are 1-shot lynchproof? What does that mean? Why would you not explain this? If we lynch you, we will fail and proceed to night, or what?
I didn't tell you about the bulletproof because I didn't want an unlimited vig to shoot me instead of not shooting, I didn't tell you about the lynchproof because it's not in my interest to put any kind of thoughts of lynching me into your head.
I take it "compulsive" means you HAVE to shoot?
If two of Voltgloss, AHoppy and myself are convinced that it is to town's benefit to reveal how many shots I have left, I will.
Haven't read beyond this yet either, but off the top of my head I can't see how this would be to town's benefit.
But if there would have been NO target for EFHW, we could have tested the EFHW=SK theory. And you didn't prevent anyone from making me a target for EFHW.There's always so much going on while I'm asleep...
I probably need to take a closer look at the whole TA/Galz/Robz thing. One thing that I found immediately suspicious is that while TA thinks I'm scummy for not wanting to full-claim right away (by the way, remind me again why I should do that?), he doesn't find Dsell scummy at all for the same thing.
I'm also increasingly suspicious of EFHW. Somebody mentioned (looked back, it was Robz) she could be a SK that only gets to kill people who reached half L-1? If that's a concern, why do we push people to half L-1? If noone would have gotten there, EFHW wouldn't be able to night-kill. But I guess it's too late for that. Still, seeing that Galz and Robz apparently discussed that possibility and didn't suggest not pushing people to half L-1 seems strange. Did you eventually conclude that it's too unlikely for EFHW to have that role?
As I've explained--for the third time now!--I only advocated getting Eevee to this point, because Eevee is not town-aligned so who cares if it's bad for him.
I take it "compulsive" means you HAVE to shoot?
Yes, I am required to shoot each night that I have a shot for.
I ask everyone to give their thoughts on Dsell and Twistedarcher, with reasons. Specifically, do you think they are:
1. Both scum?
2. One scum, one town? And if so, which is which?
3. Both town?
I didn't plan on getting lynched.I'm waiting for ash to confirm how it works is exactly, I've been under the impression the lynch would just fail and the day would continue, but when claiming I realized it's not explicitly stated. I'll let you know when ash gets back to me. I'm also waiting for him to clarify how much I can reveal about my flavor, the fact that no one seems interested in my "all the mafia are modern family" theory makes me believe in it even more!I can confirm Jorbles can shoot, I was indeed 1-shot bulletproof. I thought it was better to left it unclaimed for possible end-game shenanigans. I'm also one-shot lynchproof if all cards need be laid out on the table.
So, as I'm not a sensible kill choice for either mafia or a serial killer, I think Jorbles is pretty much confirmed town. Again, I'm totes all for EFHW targeting me if you are worried I'm a serial killer. I agree it's a reasonable suspicion, although I don't agree with your flavor assessment - this asian dude faked being qualified to teach spaning or even knowing spanish, and moved to the school's air ventilation pipes after getting kicked out of his home by his wife. What is he if not a survivor?
You are 1-shot lynchproof? What does that mean? Why would you not explain this? If we lynch you, we will fail and proceed to night, or what?
I didn't tell you about the bulletproof because I didn't want an unlimited vig to shoot me instead of not shooting, I didn't tell you about the lynchproof because it's not in my interest to put any kind of thoughts of lynching me into your head.
I find it pretty credibility straining that you weren't curious about how "lynchproof" works until now.
because Eevee is the Serial Killer^^^, not EFHW
because Eevee is the Serial Killer^^^, not EFHW
Yes, if you are telling the truth.But if there would have been NO target for EFHW, we could have tested the EFHW=SK theory. And you didn't prevent anyone from making me a target for EFHW.There's always so much going on while I'm asleep...
I probably need to take a closer look at the whole TA/Galz/Robz thing. One thing that I found immediately suspicious is that while TA thinks I'm scummy for not wanting to full-claim right away (by the way, remind me again why I should do that?), he doesn't find Dsell scummy at all for the same thing.
I'm also increasingly suspicious of EFHW. Somebody mentioned (looked back, it was Robz) she could be a SK that only gets to kill people who reached half L-1? If that's a concern, why do we push people to half L-1? If noone would have gotten there, EFHW wouldn't be able to night-kill. But I guess it's too late for that. Still, seeing that Galz and Robz apparently discussed that possibility and didn't suggest not pushing people to half L-1 seems strange. Did you eventually conclude that it's too unlikely for EFHW to have that role?
As I've explained--for the third time now!--I only advocated getting Eevee to this point, because Eevee is not town-aligned so who cares if it's bad for him.
faust I already targeted you last night.
Interesting claim. I agree that galzria makes sense as a Sk target n1, less so that he makes sense as an jk target by Faust.I didn't think about it much. I guess I didn't claim it in fear of sounding serial killery, thinking in the lines of "claiming that isn't likely to help me, if I don't claim it I get a second chance if they do decide to lynch me, no downside". Revealing it now was just in the spirit of revealing things, no grand thought behind it.
I have no idea why eevee didn't claim lynchproof before. Bulletproof I could get, but lynchproof? For someone who wants to be all in as town, that's a huge piece of info to hide. And why reveal it now?
I take it "compulsive" means you HAVE to shoot?
Yes, I am required to shoot each night that I have a shot for.
What do you mean "have a shot for"? Are you limited in your choices?
because Eevee is the Serial Killer^^^, not EFHW
Robz, I definitely agree there is a strong possibility that Eevee is SK, but I also think there's just as strong - if not stronger - possibility that EFHW is the SK. One question for you (and all) to consider: if Eevee were SK, would he have targeted the players the SK seems to have targeted?
Where I'm going is: "do the SK's kill targets make more sense if he/she is limited to only killing people who received enough votes the preceding day?"
and so did Voltaire.because Eevee is the Serial Killer^^^, not EFHW
Robz, I definitely agree there is a strong possibility that Eevee is SK, but I also think there's just as strong - if not stronger - possibility that EFHW is the SK. One question for you (and all) to consider: if Eevee were SK, would he have targeted the players the SK seems to have targeted?
Where I'm going is: "do the SK's kill targets make more sense if he/she is limited to only killing people who received enough votes the preceding day?"
It is interesting that all three of the N1 targets (assuming Galz is one) had 5 or more votes D1. Last night Walrus did not, but Eevee did.
I ask everyone to give their thoughts on Dsell and Twistedarcher, with reasons. Specifically, do you think they are:I have a medium sized town read on TA, this horse has probably been beaten to death already.
1. Both scum?
2. One scum, one town? And if so, which is which?
3. Both town?
I ask everyone to give their thoughts on Dsell and Twistedarcher, with reasons. Specifically, do you think they are:
1. Both scum?
2. One scum, one town? And if so, which is which?
3. Both town?
I ask everyone to give their thoughts on Dsell and Twistedarcher, with reasons. Specifically, do you think they are:
1. Both scum?
2. One scum, one town? And if so, which is which?
3. Both town?
I take it "compulsive" means you HAVE to shoot?
Yes, I am required to shoot each night that I have a shot for.
What do you mean "have a shot for"? Are you limited in your choices?
I am X-shot, when X=0, I have no more shots.
Voltgloss, there's not much utility in me claiming (except that it might make jorbles seem more towny, it doesn't prove anything though) but let me know if you want me to claim.Isn't my claim enough of a confirmation on Jorbles? I have no reason to cover for him even if you peg me for a serial killer.
This should say both are scum of the same variety.I ask everyone to give their thoughts on Dsell and Twistedarcher, with reasons. Specifically, do you think they are:I have a medium sized town read on TA, this horse has probably been beaten to death already.
1. Both scum?
2. One scum, one town? And if so, which is which?
3. Both town?
Dsell's lack of towniness I find scummy, he really hasn't done much, except for the Voltaire-hunt which I still view as a position scum wanted to take. I wouldn't be surprised if Dsell was scum, and PoE is making it more and more likely. I'd put Dsell being scum maybe twice as likely as TA being scum? They have been bickering enough to make it unlikely both are scum, I guess that's something to note.
I ask everyone to give their thoughts on Dsell and Twistedarcher, with reasons. Specifically, do you think they are:I don't think both of them are scum, for reasons that might better not be laid out. One of them may well be scum, and if so, I'm leaning more towards TA. But this is just a vague impession and nothing I want to base my vote on. It's also possible that both are town.
1. Both scum?
2. One scum, one town? And if so, which is which?
3. Both town?
I ask everyone to give their thoughts on Dsell and Twistedarcher, with reasons. Specifically, do you think they are:
1. Both scum?
2. One scum, one town? And if so, which is which?
3. Both town?
I ask everyone to give their thoughts on Dsell and Twistedarcher, with reasons. Specifically, do you think they are:
1. Both scum?
2. One scum, one town? And if so, which is which?
3. Both town?
Dsell is almost certainly scum (hah, look, here I go doing what TA was) if TA isn't. I mean... the way he came from obscurity to just support Robz' and I... Eevee, TA, you know that whole discussion about Robz and I reading each other, and what if one of us were scum using the other person's reads to push things along? Well, I've explained in as many words as I can why I trust Robz. However if you're looking for someone that fits exactly what you're suggesting, I've gotten that feeling from Dsell all game. His general support has felt very... tacked on. It's late, and it hasn't really read genuine to me.I agree, I think I even pointed this out day 2.
I ask everyone to give their thoughts on Dsell and Twistedarcher, with reasons. Specifically, do you think they are:
1. Both scum?
2. One scum, one town? And if so, which is which?
3. Both town?
1. Well, maybe?
2. Again, maybe? TA seems very likely scum--I am voting for him. Dsell being scum seems less likely. I just think he kind of doesn't care about this game, and I've seen him like that as town.
3. Not so likely, but still possible?
I ask everyone to give their thoughts on Dsell and Twistedarcher, with reasons. Specifically, do you think they are:
1. Both scum?
2. One scum, one town? And if so, which is which?
3. Both town?
It looks like neither has claimed. Is that right? My vote is on Dsell, but I have equally uneasy feelings about TA. Dsell accused TA of trying to turn town against each other, or something like that. Would one scum say that to another? Probably not, but maybe. I guess it is most likely they are one scum one town. Dsell has been less active, so if I have to pick who is more likely to be scum then I pick him.
Voltgloss, there's not much utility in me claiming (except that it might make jorbles seem more towny, it doesn't prove anything though) but let me know if you want me to claim.Isn't my claim enough of a confirmation on Jorbles? I have no reason to cover for him even if you peg me for a serial killer.
Why would he ever shoot me if he was the SK?Voltgloss, there's not much utility in me claiming (except that it might make jorbles seem more towny, it doesn't prove anything though) but let me know if you want me to claim.Isn't my claim enough of a confirmation on Jorbles? I have no reason to cover for him even if you peg me for a serial killer.
I'd say your claim vouches for his role but not his alignment -- we know he can kill but he could also very easily be a SK. My claim I believe would rule him out as SK
Wouldn't I be literally the last person a SK would ever target?
Hey now, I'm trying to acquit you!Wouldn't I be literally the last person a SK would ever target?
Yeah, I think you would be the last person you would target. :P
Voltgloss, there's not much utility in me claiming (except that it might make jorbles seem more towny, it doesn't prove anything though) but let me know if you want me to claim.Isn't my claim enough of a confirmation on Jorbles? I have no reason to cover for him even if you peg me for a serial killer.
I'd say your claim vouches for his role but not his alignment -- we know he can kill but he could also very easily be a SK. My claim I believe would rule him out as SK
Wouldn't I be literally the last person a SK would ever target?Can anyone point out to me why the SK doesn't want to target a Survivor? I don't see it yet.
Wouldn't I be literally the last person a SK would ever target?Can anyone point out to me why the SK doesn't want to target a Survivor? I don't see it yet.
Can somebody familiar with MF explain my relationship to Gloria (Phil Dunphy, Gloria Pritchett)?There are some jokes about Phil finding Gloria attractive, but it's not a huge part of either character I don't think. Pretty much everyone tends to find Gloria attractive in the show.
The wiki says I have shown signs of having a crush on her. My PM suggests that I'm always aiming to "take Gloria". I'm not sure if it's JUST flavor, or if it's an important piece to the puzzle. Certainly it's interesting to me that she turns up as part of the enabler pairings... makes TA's arguments that symmetry might still exist a little more possible in my head. But I don't know if I'm reading too much into this or not.
Can somebody familiar with MF explain my relationship to Gloria (Phil Dunphy, Gloria Pritchett)?
The wiki says I have shown signs of having a crush on her. My PM suggests that I'm always aiming to "take Gloria". I'm not sure if it's JUST flavor, or if it's an important piece to the puzzle. Certainly it's interesting to me that she turns up as part of the enabler pairings... makes TA's arguments that symmetry might still exist a little more possible in my head. But I don't know if I'm reading too much into this or not.
Ah, okay, I thought that the SK just wants everyone dead, including Eevee.Wouldn't I be literally the last person a SK would ever target?Can anyone point out to me why the SK doesn't want to target a Survivor? I don't see it yet.
Theoretically, they can win together. SK needs all of the town and scum to die, and if Eevee is telling the truth, he's neither. So he's a distraction at best.
I think this claim goes a long way towards clearing Jorbles. The only way he could be scum is if they are scum together, and if that's the case this is a hardcore bus that doesn't seem necessary (not to mention it clues the real SK into 2 mafiosos).
I solemnly swear I'll continue not shooting anyone. I appreciate the care and concern you are showing, Robz!
Okay, so it seems plausible to me that the Voltaire/Dsell interaction was just a misunderstanding. It's true that Dsell reacts a bit harsh now, not sure what to make of that. I'd like to move on. I feel that bocaJ's claim is a more important topic to discuss right now.
Bad guys in the study group, as in plural? That would kill my theory dead on it's tracks.Can somebody familiar with MF explain my relationship to Gloria (Phil Dunphy, Gloria Pritchett)?
The wiki says I have shown signs of having a crush on her. My PM suggests that I'm always aiming to "take Gloria". I'm not sure if it's JUST flavor, or if it's an important piece to the puzzle. Certainly it's interesting to me that she turns up as part of the enabler pairings... makes TA's arguments that symmetry might still exist a little more possible in my head. But I don't know if I'm reading too much into this or not.
Also, my flavor itself mentions catching the bad guys in the Study Group (Study Group is NOT just in my win-con). Not sure if that's relevant either, but I recall someone saying this was not the case for them, so I don't know.
Voltgloss, Ahoppy, I don't see why TA and Dsell shouldn't just full claim at this point. It will help us decide between them, if that is indeed the point we are at. I mean, it's certainly conceivable that at least one is a town PR who is better off keeping quiet, but we have to weigh the odds. Anyway, this is your call.
While I don't believe in calling teams, I approve of this.Okay, so it seems plausible to me that the Voltaire/Dsell interaction was just a misunderstanding. It's true that Dsell reacts a bit harsh now, not sure what to make of that. I'd like to move on. I feel that bocaJ's claim is a more important topic to discuss right now.
Dsell/faust scum with Shraeye?
Bad guys in the study group, as in plural? That would kill my theory dead on it's tracks.Can somebody familiar with MF explain my relationship to Gloria (Phil Dunphy, Gloria Pritchett)?
The wiki says I have shown signs of having a crush on her. My PM suggests that I'm always aiming to "take Gloria". I'm not sure if it's JUST flavor, or if it's an important piece to the puzzle. Certainly it's interesting to me that she turns up as part of the enabler pairings... makes TA's arguments that symmetry might still exist a little more possible in my head. But I don't know if I'm reading too much into this or not.
Also, my flavor itself mentions catching the bad guys in the Study Group (Study Group is NOT just in my win-con). Not sure if that's relevant either, but I recall someone saying this was not the case for them, so I don't know.
Were the bad guys blorghons impersonating humans, or was Luke actually evil? Because if it's the latter, I guess Phil could be blind to his offspring's shortcomings.
Faust put the idea of a SK wanting to shoot me out there on D1 though. Much like suggesting a Vig shoot me, does this make sense as scum? Hell, especially as he's an Enabled role!Faust, did you think Galzria enabled you? What were your "secret thoughts", if you will.
Interesting. I want to fully reread faust D1 now. He would've HAD to think that I enabled him, right? What was his attitude and response towards me?
Faust put the idea of a SK wanting to shoot me out there on D1 though. Much like suggesting a Vig shoot me, does this make sense as scum? Hell, especially as he's an Enabled role!He also knew he could protect you which he did.
Interesting. I want to fully reread faust D1 now. He would've HAD to think that I enabled him, right? What was his attitude and response towards me?
Voltgloss, Ahoppy, I don't see why TA and Dsell shouldn't just full claim at this point. It will help us decide between them, if that is indeed the point we are at. I mean, it's certainly conceivable that at least one is a town PR who is better off keeping quiet, but we have to weigh the odds. Anyway, this is your call.
Yeah. It's a tough one. I am 95% sure that one of them is a town PR who is better off keeping quiet, and they've both expressed reluctance to claim - which is why I haven't pressed yet.
TA, a point of clarification: is the info you have about Jorbles something you gleaned from a night action?
Faust put the idea of a SK wanting to shoot me out there on D1 though. Much like suggesting a Vig shoot me, does this make sense as scum? Hell, especially as he's an Enabled role!He also knew he could protect you which he did.
Interesting. I want to fully reread faust D1 now. He would've HAD to think that I enabled him, right? What was his attitude and response towards me?
Yes, I thought he enabled me. At the time I wasn't sure whether to protect Galzria or Voltgloss. Both had no active roles, so I wouldn't accidentally roleblock someone. I was considering Galzria being scum, but the claim didn't make sense to me in this case. In the end I chose Galzria to protect over Voltgloss because I thought Voltgloss would be more likely targeted by another protective PR. It also seemed reasonable for scum to shoot Galzria, but as it turned out, they had an enabled role themselves.Faust put the idea of a SK wanting to shoot me out there on D1 though. Much like suggesting a Vig shoot me, does this make sense as scum? Hell, especially as he's an Enabled role!Faust, did you think Galzria enabled you? What were your "secret thoughts", if you will.
Interesting. I want to fully reread faust D1 now. He would've HAD to think that I enabled him, right? What was his attitude and response towards me?
Okay, some thoughts.
Let's not forget about mail-mi and chairs, the former is kind of scummy even without the secret case (and if blowback from the secret case causes scum!mail=mi to survive, that will really suck) and the later is playing his cop role almost too poorly to be believed.
I don't know, and have never known, what the case against faust is. It relies on him acting differently than he did in a New Mafia game that I didn't follow, I think, so I'm just sort of disinclined to pay it much attention. That's probably my fault.
At this point, my best guess is that we are facing off against 4 mafia from the following set:
1. sudgy
2. Dsell or Twistedarcher (NOT both)
3. chairs
4. mail-mi
5. bocaJ
And against one SK who is either EFHW or Eevee. (I think, if the SK is Eevee, then EFHW is probably Town.)
At this point, my best guess is that we are facing off against 4 mafia from the following set:
1. sudgy
2. Dsell or Twistedarcher (NOT both)
3. chairs
4. mail-mi
5. bocaJ
And against one SK who is either EFHW or Eevee. (I think, if the SK is Eevee, then EFHW is probably Town.)
vote: bocaJ because I have a theory regarding scum team.
so, mail-mi and faust. aren't their claims a little competing?I wouldn't think so. He's a claimed Jailkeeper, I'm a measly one-shot roleblocker. But he's enabled. In a game this large, I wouldn't think much on it, except that he's scum.
At this point, my best guess is that we are facing off against 4 mafia from the following set:I agree with this (other than me, of course) and I will reread them when I can.
1. sudgy
2. Dsell or Twistedarcher (NOT both)
3. chairs
4. mail-mi
5. bocaJ
And against one SK who is either EFHW or Eevee. (I think, if the SK is Eevee, then EFHW is probably Town.)
And, I agree with the list Voltgloss put up (other than me obviously), and will Vote: Dsell from it mainly for D1 shraeye interactions.
And, I agree with the list Voltgloss put up (other than me obviously), and will Vote: Dsell from it mainly for D1 shraeye interactions.
I'd super love some elaboration on this.
vote: bocaJ because I have a theory regarding scum team.
Care to enlighten us?
Are Dsell/Voltaire both Community? I've honestly no idea exactly what claims are out there and by whom at this point.
BUT, I would be fascinated to see another Captain/Captained pair crop up.
Are Dsell/Voltaire both Community? I've honestly no idea exactly what claims are out there and by whom at this point.
BUT, I would be fascinated to see another Captain/Captained pair crop up.
Jorbles, does anything in your role PM indicate that you are somehow linked to another player?
Are Dsell/TwistedArcherboth Community? I've honestly no idea exactly what claims are out there and by whom at this point.
BUT, I would be fascinated to see another Captain/Captained pair crop up.
Are Dsell/TwistedArcherboth Community? I've honestly no idea exactly what claims are out there and by whom at this point.
BUT, I would be fascinated to see another Captain/Captained pair crop up.
Fixed that for me.
Working on my reads list starting now, didn't get it up last night like I wanted to.
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5896.0
I think I would like Dsell and TA to claim with the rest of us. Scum already have a lot of good NK targets. Adding a couple more won't let them kill us any faster, and I think that I would be better able to consider their actions in this game if I knew their roles.
But if one is town and one scum, they might as well claim, because scum already have full knowledge.
But if one is town and one scum, they might as well claim, because scum already have full knowledge.
How? ??? Maybe of alignment, but that's hardly "full knowledge."
Nope, Modern Family.
sudgy, who did you target Night 1?
sudgy, who did you target Night 1?
I was going to try to send messages that I was the doc to the captain (I was assuming he was town) and said me, you, and Robz (because of his request).
The reason I don't think EFHW is mafia is the "can only target people with enough votes" restriction (which, as I explained Day 2, I absolutely think is legit). If she were mafia, that restriction becames much less of a restriction - she'd have a whole cadre of fellow scumplayers to help drive wagons to the halfway mark. That feels unbalancedly powerful to me.
I agree her claim is fishy though, and that's why I lean more towards her being SK than Eevee. I can lay out in detail my reasons - if we think it's more important to lynch the SK than to lynch mafia today. But I'm not sure that it is. Especially now we probably have a town vig (I find Jorbles' claim believable).
sudgy, who did you target Night 1?
I was going to try to send messages that I was the doc to the captain (I was assuming he was town) and said me, you, and Robz (because of his request).
The reason I don't think EFHW is mafia is the "can only target people with enough votes" restriction (which, as I explained Day 2, I absolutely think is legit). If she were mafia, that restriction becames much less of a restriction - she'd have a whole cadre of fellow scumplayers to help drive wagons to the halfway mark. That feels unbalancedly powerful to me.
I agree her claim is fishy though, and that's why I lean more towards her being SK than Eevee. I can lay out in detail my reasons - if we think it's more important to lynch the SK than to lynch mafia today. But I'm not sure that it is. Especially now we probably have a town vig (I find Jorbles' claim believable).
Volt, I made the post about lynching the SK today if we can be reasonably sure who they are. No one responded, though. What are your thoughts on what I said?
The reason I don't think EFHW is mafia is the "can only target people with enough votes" restriction (which, as I explained Day 2, I absolutely think is legit). If she were mafia, that restriction becames much less of a restriction - she'd have a whole cadre of fellow scumplayers to help drive wagons to the halfway mark. That feels unbalancedly powerful to me.
I agree her claim is fishy though, and that's why I lean more towards her being SK than Eevee. I can lay out in detail my reasons - if we think it's more important to lynch the SK than to lynch mafia today. But I'm not sure that it is. Especially now we probably have a town vig (I find Jorbles' claim believable).
Volt, I made the post about lynching the SK today if we can be reasonably sure who they are. No one responded, though. What are your thoughts on what I said?
I'd like to hear more peoples' thoughts on the subject. Also, I invite you to reassess the math assuming Jorbles is a Town Vig.
If EFHW is vigged, does he have time to target me?
Voltgloss, can you walk me through that contradiction by sudgy? I've never seen a captained role before.
Voltgloss, you've modded more games than I have. Has a Doctor ever been able to self target? I don't ever recall that being viable.
I agree with your interpretation.If EFHW is vigged, does he have time to target me?
Voltgloss, can you walk me through that contradiction by sudgy? I've never seen a captained role before.
Basically, Sudgy is saying he can choose three possible targets for his doctoring power, then the captain would select which one. Sudgy is saying he chose himself as one of the three targets -- it's a possible contradiction because he's not a valid target, so he wouldn't be able to doctor himself.
Personally, I agree it's an invalid target, but I don't know if that would prevent him from submitting himself as a target, and forfeiting the action if the captain chooses "Sudgy".
Voltgloss, you've modded more games than I have. Has a Doctor ever been able to self target? I don't ever recall that being viable.
Voltgloss, you've modded more games than I have. Has a Doctor ever been able to self target? I don't ever recall that being viable.
I have never seen a game where Doctors can self-target. It can lead to a stalemate, between one self-Doctoring Doctor and one Mafia Goon. See http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Doctor
Yeah, but sudgy isn't actually self-targeting... according to him, he recommends targets and mcmc picks one, right? And if mcmc is dead it just fails. So this doesn't seem to me to violate usual doctoring stuff.
I'm a bit busy right now, I'll be back later.
Voltgloss, you've modded more games than I have. Has a Doctor ever been able to self target? I don't ever recall that being viable.
I have never seen a game where Doctors can self-target. It can lead to a stalemate, between one self-Doctoring Doctor and one Mafia Goon. See http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Doctor
As sudgy is describing it though it wouldn't be possible to create the stalemate you describe because in order for him to use his powers he needs mcmc to be alive. You can not have a Doctor/Goon scenario because when the Captain is killed he ceases to be able to use his abilities. If there was a Goon\Doctor\Captain night then the Goon just needs to WIFOM who to kill, and if he succeeds he wins, if he fails it goes to a lynch.
faust, why do you go give Dsel such a towny read, just for being unwilling to claim?I see your question. But I think it would be bad for town if I answered it. From his posts, I believe Voltgloss has similar thoughts.
faust, why do you go give Dsel such a towny read, just for being unwilling to claim?I see your question. But I think it would be bad for town if I answered it. From his posts, I believe Voltgloss has similar thoughts.
faust, why do you go give Dsel such a towny read, just for being unwilling to claim?I see your question. But I think it would be bad for town if I answered it. From his posts, I believe Voltgloss has similar thoughts.
I have absolutely no clue what you are talking about here, and I would love to see you explain this.
faust, why do you go give Dsel such a towny read, just for being unwilling to claim?I see your question. But I think it would be bad for town if I answered it. From his posts, I believe Voltgloss has similar thoughts.
I have absolutely no clue what you are talking about here, and I would love to see you explain this.
Interesting.
faust, why do you go give Dsel such a towny read, just for being unwilling to claim?I see your question. But I think it would be bad for town if I answered it. From his posts, I believe Voltgloss has similar thoughts.
I have absolutely no clue what you are talking about here, and I would love to see you explain this.
Interesting.
Do you have similar thoughts? Cause I don't see why town Faust would protect dsell in particular.
Faust - Symmetry! But there's more than that. He was scummy on D1, and pushed Nkirbit for what I thought were extremely flimsy reasons. Plus, I do not like the way he approached claiming today, when he had little reason to oppose it.Okay, symmetry, fair enough, I fell for that D2 as well. But the nkirbit wagon, seriously? There where like seven other people voting him for the very same reasons as I did, and you pick me out of those because of... what? And yeah, I had little reason to oppose claiming (I wanted scum to think there might still be a protective role out there), but something you still haven't answered is why I would have had any reason to support claiming. When I claimed, I thought it was beneficial because it acquitted Jorbles to an extent, but before that?
I'm worried the sudgy wagon is forming for him being clumsy. Like, we aren't accusing him of anything scum would particularly want to do? If it's a mistake, is it more likely to be a scum mistake? I'd like to have my vote somewhere, but I'm unsure where to put it to.I think not. I reread him, and I have something that no one else pointed out--after being "98.36%
The Faust wagon D2 was filled by my townreads. Pretty comfortable with my vote there right now.As stated before, I am also comfortable moving back to faust.
bocaJ - I haven't really had any reason to doubt him since his claim. I thought it was genuine at the time, and I haven't had any reason to doubt him since. Yes, he's lurking, but also keep in mind this is his first game on the forums -- I think it's a definite possibility that he just had no idea what he was getting into, and how much of a commitment it was. Still, I haven't seen anything that screams scum. I'd be null without the claim i think, but with the claim, I think he's town.
And then when a townie comes and says "Hey, I have no freaking clue what's going on, but I am going to trust the IC on this one and vote where he wants" you respond to that by a vote???
That's not what he said. Or at least, not what I understood him to say. I understood him to be saying "I'm not going to try any more and I will just vote wherever the IC wants, for the rest of the game."
No, bocaJ pledging his vote to you was based on the amount of secret information going around, in his words. But whatever, this thread is long enough already that I don't think we need to argue about this
bocaJ - I haven't really had any reason to doubt him since his claim. I thought it was genuine at the time, and I haven't had any reason to doubt him since. Yes, he's lurking, but also keep in mind this is his first game on the forums -- I think it's a definite possibility that he just had no idea what he was getting into, and how much of a commitment it was. Still, I haven't seen anything that screams scum. I'd be null without the claim i think, but with the claim, I think he's town.
Thanks for your support TA.
vote: Twistedarcher
In addition to reasons mentioned by others, here is the rest of my reasoning:
Twistedarcher accurately describes what has happened to me this game without any reservations as to the possibility of my guilt. I think a town player, given the suspicion laid on me by the IC, would at least express some reservations as to my guilt or innocence. But a scum player would know my innocence, and would express no doubt, just as TA has done. I also think a scum player, themselves a lynch target for the day, would try to garner the support of a new player by supporting that player.
And this is not the first time TA has supported me.
On Day 2, after Voltgloss briefly voted me for offering to proxy my vote, TA stood up on my behalf:And then when a townie comes and says "Hey, I have no freaking clue what's going on, but I am going to trust the IC on this one and vote where he wants" you respond to that by a vote???
That's not what he said. Or at least, not what I understood him to say. I understood him to be saying "I'm not going to try any more and I will just vote wherever the IC wants, for the rest of the game."
No, bocaJ pledging his vote to you was based on the amount of secret information going around, in his words. But whatever, this thread is long enough already that I don't think we need to argue about this
It makes a lot of sense for scum to offer me such full throated support. They know my claim is true. If I'm not lynched, they're likely to gain my support if it ever looks like I might vote against them. Also, if town stops believing me, I might be investigated and kill one of them. If I am lynched, then when I flip green, they get town cred for being consistent backers of the noob.
I have not done a reread, but I have a weak scum read on dsell based on my early notes on his voting pattern D1. Not enough that I would vote for him today though.
I'll also say a few things in my own defense. There are four main reasons I've been accused/FOS'd of being scum since day two: First, my request that Voltgloss demand enabled roles self reveal looked like I had foreknowledge; second, that my mail-mi claim was weak; third, that my PR claim is a great scum PR claim; finally, that I'm lurking.
To be honest, I felt like I was in a catch-22 with Voltgloss. I'm a new player, I'm barely able to keep up with reading (much less re-reading) everyone's posts, and there's a lot of secret information going around. Based especially on that last point, I thought in those circumstances, it made a lot of sense to proxy my vote to someone I knew wasn't trying to maliciously influence me. Voltgloss forcefully tells me this is wrong. I read his post as saying that he, as IC, needed town players who were willing to keep looking at the board and bring up ideas that had not been thought of before. So I thought about it, and posted a gambit that I thought might work, and then get accused of being scum... again. I was not posting because I had secret knowledge of what roles existed, I posted because it had been made clear that if I didn't start coming up with more for scum hunting, I would be lynched.
Yes, my case against mail-mi was weak. I said so. In fact, I initially posted it without even giving it a read one way or another because I wanted people to make their own read on a piece of evidence that was obvious to me (because it involved my flavor character) but might easily have been missed by one of them. Again, I haven't had time to reread, I haven't played enough to spot subtle contradictions between scum!player in one game and town!player in another, so I thought the best I could contribute to scum hunting, be it ever so modest a contribution, was to point out that, "hey, I thought it was weird that mail-mi missed this."
I understand that in evaluating my PGOx2 claim, you have to consider that it might be a claim passed to me by scum. But unless you think that more times than not, senior scum will direct noob scum to make such a claim, then that potentiality should only temper how strong a town read you accord to my claim, it should not make the claim itself grounds to read me as scum. Also, I would point out that I was the first person to claim to have an n-shot ability. From what I've read so far, such a limitation is somewhat uncommon, but in this game, we have seen several people since I have claimed also claim to have n-shot abilities. If I were scum-being-coached, it seems unlikely that scum would coach me to claim an odd variant of an already odd ability, before many people had claimed similar variants. In short, the subsequent revealing of multiple n-shot abilities should lend credence to my claim.
Finally... lurking. I am at the bottom of the post-count, there is no denying that. I understand the policy reasons of needing to maintain an active town, and needing sufficient posts from each player to generate a town or scum read. If you feel my dearth of posts have undermined those values, nothing I say in a single post is likely to change your read on me. For those on the fence however, I will say that this is my first game. I read the rules and understood that this game was a commitment. I saw that inactivity for 24 hours was grounds for a nudge, and so my initial goal was to have at least two posts every 24 hours. Though I now know I was mistaken, I figured that would be enough to keep the game going and meet my commitment. Also, I figured that other people themselves would be closer to that average. Being wrong on this not only meant I was posting less than I should, but also that I had WAY more reading than I expected going into this (rather large) scum game, leading to even less insightful posts as I struggled to keep up. I'm sorry. I am not asking to be replaced, and I will stick this game through to the best of my abilities, but I probably will seem a bit lurky to everyone. Also, if I do play another round, it will be in a smaller game.
PPE 9
bocaJ - I haven't really had any reason to doubt him since his claim. I thought it was genuine at the time, and I haven't had any reason to doubt him since. Yes, he's lurking, but also keep in mind this is his first game on the forums -- I think it's a definite possibility that he just had no idea what he was getting into, and how much of a commitment it was. Still, I haven't seen anything that screams scum. I'd be null without the claim i think, but with the claim, I think he's town.
Thanks for your support TA.
vote: Twistedarcher
In addition to reasons mentioned by others, here is the rest of my reasoning:
Twistedarcher accurately describes what has happened to me this game without any reservations as to the possibility of my guilt. I think a town player, given the suspicion laid on me by the IC, would at least express some reservations as to my guilt or innocence. But a scum player would know my innocence, and would express no doubt, just as TA has done. I also think a scum player, themselves a lynch target for the day, would try to garner the support of a new player by supporting that player.
And this is not the first time TA has supported me.
On Day 2, after Voltgloss briefly voted me for offering to proxy my vote, TA stood up on my behalf:And then when a townie comes and says "Hey, I have no freaking clue what's going on, but I am going to trust the IC on this one and vote where he wants" you respond to that by a vote???
That's not what he said. Or at least, not what I understood him to say. I understood him to be saying "I'm not going to try any more and I will just vote wherever the IC wants, for the rest of the game."
No, bocaJ pledging his vote to you was based on the amount of secret information going around, in his words. But whatever, this thread is long enough already that I don't think we need to argue about this
It makes a lot of sense for scum to offer me such full throated support. They know my claim is true. If I'm not lynched, they're likely to gain my support if it ever looks like I might vote against them. Also, if town stops believing me, I might be investigated and kill one of them. If I am lynched, then when I flip green, they get town cred for being consistent backers of the noob.
I have not done a reread, but I have a weak scum read on dsell based on my early notes on his voting pattern D1. Not enough that I would vote for him today though.
I'll also say a few things in my own defense. There are four main reasons I've been accused/FOS'd of being scum since day two: First, my request that Voltgloss demand enabled roles self reveal looked like I had foreknowledge; second, that my mail-mi claim was weak; third, that my PR claim is a great scum PR claim; finally, that I'm lurking.
To be honest, I felt like I was in a catch-22 with Voltgloss. I'm a new player, I'm barely able to keep up with reading (much less re-reading) everyone's posts, and there's a lot of secret information going around. Based especially on that last point, I thought in those circumstances, it made a lot of sense to proxy my vote to someone I knew wasn't trying to maliciously influence me. Voltgloss forcefully tells me this is wrong. I read his post as saying that he, as IC, needed town players who were willing to keep looking at the board and bring up ideas that had not been thought of before. So I thought about it, and posted a gambit that I thought might work, and then get accused of being scum... again. I was not posting because I had secret knowledge of what roles existed, I posted because it had been made clear that if I didn't start coming up with more for scum hunting, I would be lynched.
Yes, my case against mail-mi was weak. I said so. In fact, I initially posted it without even giving it a read one way or another because I wanted people to make their own read on a piece of evidence that was obvious to me (because it involved my flavor character) but might easily have been missed by one of them. Again, I haven't had time to reread, I haven't played enough to spot subtle contradictions between scum!player in one game and town!player in another, so I thought the best I could contribute to scum hunting, be it ever so modest a contribution, was to point out that, "hey, I thought it was weird that mail-mi missed this."
I understand that in evaluating my PGOx2 claim, you have to consider that it might be a claim passed to me by scum. But unless you think that more times than not, senior scum will direct noob scum to make such a claim, then that potentiality should only temper how strong a town read you accord to my claim, it should not make the claim itself grounds to read me as scum. Also, I would point out that I was the first person to claim to have an n-shot ability. From what I've read so far, such a limitation is somewhat uncommon, but in this game, we have seen several people since I have claimed also claim to have n-shot abilities. If I were scum-being-coached, it seems unlikely that scum would coach me to claim an odd variant of an already odd ability, before many people had claimed similar variants. In short, the subsequent revealing of multiple n-shot abilities should lend credence to my claim.
Finally... lurking. I am at the bottom of the post-count, there is no denying that. I understand the policy reasons of needing to maintain an active town, and needing sufficient posts from each player to generate a town or scum read. If you feel my dearth of posts have undermined those values, nothing I say in a single post is likely to change your read on me. For those on the fence however, I will say that this is my first game. I read the rules and understood that this game was a commitment. I saw that inactivity for 24 hours was grounds for a nudge, and so my initial goal was to have at least two posts every 24 hours. Though I now know I was mistaken, I figured that would be enough to keep the game going and meet my commitment. Also, I figured that other people themselves would be closer to that average. Being wrong on this not only meant I was posting less than I should, but also that I had WAY more reading than I expected going into this (rather large) scum game, leading to even less insightful posts as I struggled to keep up. I'm sorry. I am not asking to be replaced, and I will stick this game through to the best of my abilities, but I probably will seem a bit lurky to everyone. Also, if I do play another round, it will be in a smaller game.
PPE 9
I would upvote this post if I could.
Here's an interesting one for you:
D1 lynch candidates (even by name in passing) down the line:
Liopoil - Vig, believed to be town.
mcmc - Captain, confirmed town.
Archetype - Enabler, confirmed town.
AHoppy - Best Friend, confirmed town.
EFHW - ??????
What are the odds we had 5 town at the end of D1 as possible lynch choices? Does this say anything towards EFHW's alignment, or is her alignment independent of the fact that the other 4 are all likely town? If all 5 are town, where was scum voting in relation to each?
I know I've asked this before, but I would really appreciate at least one other person analyzing the "are we better off lynching the SK or lynching mafia today" question. I confess I'm having trouble keeping the math right in my head.
Day 2 final vote count:
faust (2): mail-mi, Archetype
mail-mi (2): sudgy, chairs
Archetype (9): Galzria, Jorbles, Voltgloss, Twistedarcher, Walrus, Voltaire, Ahoppy, Eevee, faust
Not Voting (4): dsell, EFHW, bocaJ, Robz
bocaJ - I haven't really had any reason to doubt him since his claim. I thought it was genuine at the time, and I haven't had any reason to doubt him since. Yes, he's lurking, but also keep in mind this is his first game on the forums -- I think it's a definite possibility that he just had no idea what he was getting into, and how much of a commitment it was. Still, I haven't seen anything that screams scum. I'd be null without the claim i think, but with the claim, I think he's town.
Thanks for your support TA.
vote: Twistedarcher
In addition to reasons mentioned by others, here is the rest of my reasoning:
Twistedarcher accurately describes what has happened to me this game without any reservations as to the possibility of my guilt. I think a town player, given the suspicion laid on me by the IC, would at least express some reservations as to my guilt or innocence. But a scum player would know my innocence, and would express no doubt, just as TA has done. I also think a scum player, themselves a lynch target for the day, would try to garner the support of a new player by supporting that player.
And this is not the first time TA has supported me.
On Day 2, after Voltgloss briefly voted me for offering to proxy my vote, TA stood up on my behalf:And then when a townie comes and says "Hey, I have no freaking clue what's going on, but I am going to trust the IC on this one and vote where he wants" you respond to that by a vote???
That's not what he said. Or at least, not what I understood him to say. I understood him to be saying "I'm not going to try any more and I will just vote wherever the IC wants, for the rest of the game."
No, bocaJ pledging his vote to you was based on the amount of secret information going around, in his words. But whatever, this thread is long enough already that I don't think we need to argue about this
It makes a lot of sense for scum to offer me such full throated support. They know my claim is true. If I'm not lynched, they're likely to gain my support if it ever looks like I might vote against them. Also, if town stops believing me, I might be investigated and kill one of them. If I am lynched, then when I flip green, they get town cred for being consistent backers of the noob.
I have not done a reread, but I have a weak scum read on dsell based on my early notes on his voting pattern D1. Not enough that I would vote for him today though.
I'll also say a few things in my own defense. There are four main reasons I've been accused/FOS'd of being scum since day two: First, my request that Voltgloss demand enabled roles self reveal looked like I had foreknowledge; second, that my mail-mi claim was weak; third, that my PR claim is a great scum PR claim; finally, that I'm lurking.
To be honest, I felt like I was in a catch-22 with Voltgloss. I'm a new player, I'm barely able to keep up with reading (much less re-reading) everyone's posts, and there's a lot of secret information going around. Based especially on that last point, I thought in those circumstances, it made a lot of sense to proxy my vote to someone I knew wasn't trying to maliciously influence me. Voltgloss forcefully tells me this is wrong. I read his post as saying that he, as IC, needed town players who were willing to keep looking at the board and bring up ideas that had not been thought of before. So I thought about it, and posted a gambit that I thought might work, and then get accused of being scum... again. I was not posting because I had secret knowledge of what roles existed, I posted because it had been made clear that if I didn't start coming up with more for scum hunting, I would be lynched.
Yes, my case against mail-mi was weak. I said so. In fact, I initially posted it without even giving it a read one way or another because I wanted people to make their own read on a piece of evidence that was obvious to me (because it involved my flavor character) but might easily have been missed by one of them. Again, I haven't had time to reread, I haven't played enough to spot subtle contradictions between scum!player in one game and town!player in another, so I thought the best I could contribute to scum hunting, be it ever so modest a contribution, was to point out that, "hey, I thought it was weird that mail-mi missed this."
I understand that in evaluating my PGOx2 claim, you have to consider that it might be a claim passed to me by scum. But unless you think that more times than not, senior scum will direct noob scum to make such a claim, then that potentiality should only temper how strong a town read you accord to my claim, it should not make the claim itself grounds to read me as scum. Also, I would point out that I was the first person to claim to have an n-shot ability. From what I've read so far, such a limitation is somewhat uncommon, but in this game, we have seen several people since I have claimed also claim to have n-shot abilities. If I were scum-being-coached, it seems unlikely that scum would coach me to claim an odd variant of an already odd ability, before many people had claimed similar variants. In short, the subsequent revealing of multiple n-shot abilities should lend credence to my claim.
Finally... lurking. I am at the bottom of the post-count, there is no denying that. I understand the policy reasons of needing to maintain an active town, and needing sufficient posts from each player to generate a town or scum read. If you feel my dearth of posts have undermined those values, nothing I say in a single post is likely to change your read on me. For those on the fence however, I will say that this is my first game. I read the rules and understood that this game was a commitment. I saw that inactivity for 24 hours was grounds for a nudge, and so my initial goal was to have at least two posts every 24 hours. Though I now know I was mistaken, I figured that would be enough to keep the game going and meet my commitment. Also, I figured that other people themselves would be closer to that average. Being wrong on this not only meant I was posting less than I should, but also that I had WAY more reading than I expected going into this (rather large) scum game, leading to even less insightful posts as I struggled to keep up. I'm sorry. I am not asking to be replaced, and I will stick this game through to the best of my abilities, but I probably will seem a bit lurky to everyone. Also, if I do play another round, it will be in a smaller game.
PPE 9
I should note as well that IF faust and TA are both town, then that brings the breakdown into 4 scum out of 6 players, based as follows:
Sudgy, Robz (Jorbles)
Mail, Chairs, Dsell (mcmc)
bocaJ (nkirbit)
This makes it highly likely that bocaJ is scum, else you believe that both in the group of 2 are scum, or all of the group of three. It just seems crazy.
I'm worried the sudgy wagon is forming for him being clumsy. Like, we aren't accusing him of anything scum would particularly want to do? If it's a mistake, is it more likely to be a scum mistake? I'd like to have my vote somewhere, but I'm unsure where to put it to.I think not. I reread him, and I have something that no one else pointed out--after being "98.36%
sure that I was scum yesterday, he has said absolutely nothing about me today. And the fact that he jumped on my wagon because of the "mystery case" [grumble grumble] vote: sudgy
Galz, I am following you. Two comments.
1. Remember that Dsell was on the Jorbles wagon up until right at the very end of Day 1, when he jumped to the mcmc wagon. How does that affect your groupings?
2. I strongly believe that at least one of (Dsell/TA) is town. I don't know which yet. Assuming it's Dsell, how does that affect your groupings? Assuming it's TA, how does that affect your groupings?
Why do you find him credible? Like, what has he done other than claim VT?I'm worried the sudgy wagon is forming for him being clumsy. Like, we aren't accusing him of anything scum would particularly want to do? If it's a mistake, is it more likely to be a scum mistake? I'd like to have my vote somewhere, but I'm unsure where to put it to.I think not. I reread him, and I have something that no one else pointed out--after being "98.36%
sure that I was scum yesterday, he has said absolutely nothing about me today. And the fact that he jumped on my wagon because of the "mystery case" [grumble grumble] vote: sudgy
This is a good point, even though I mostly find sudgy pretty credible. I don't see the issue with his claim. But this is something.
I know I've asked this before, but I would really appreciate at least one other person analyzing the "are we better off lynching the SK or lynching mafia today" question. I confess I'm having trouble keeping the math right in my head.
Hang on though, I really do think we should only give EFHW the option of targeting Eevee. Have we voted anyone else halfway to lynch?
Why do you find him credible? Like, what has he done other than claim VT?I'm worried the sudgy wagon is forming for him being clumsy. Like, we aren't accusing him of anything scum would particularly want to do? If it's a mistake, is it more likely to be a scum mistake? I'd like to have my vote somewhere, but I'm unsure where to put it to.I think not. I reread him, and I have something that no one else pointed out--after being "98.36%
sure that I was scum yesterday, he has said absolutely nothing about me today. And the fact that he jumped on my wagon because of the "mystery case" [grumble grumble] vote: sudgy
This is a good point, even though I mostly find sudgy pretty credible. I don't see the issue with his claim. But this is something.
Hang on though, I really do think we should only give EFHW the option of targeting Eevee. Have we voted anyone else halfway to lynch?
Yep. faust.
Do the people EFHW targets receive notification?
When he claimed, it was already a VT. Is there a reason scum couldn't be captained? Are you giving him a town pass solely based on that claim?Why do you find him credible? Like, what has he done other than claim VT?I'm worried the sudgy wagon is forming for him being clumsy. Like, we aren't accusing him of anything scum would particularly want to do? If it's a mistake, is it more likely to be a scum mistake? I'd like to have my vote somewhere, but I'm unsure where to put it to.I think not. I reread him, and I have something that no one else pointed out--after being "98.36%
sure that I was scum yesterday, he has said absolutely nothing about me today. And the fact that he jumped on my wagon because of the "mystery case" [grumble grumble] vote: sudgy
This is a good point, even though I mostly find sudgy pretty credible. I don't see the issue with his claim. But this is something.
He didn't claim VT, he claimed doctor that picks three targets and then mcmc saves one. We know mcmc captains something and no one has counterclaimed sudgy. Seems like a believable thing to me, and I find him submitting him wanting to submit his own name totally reasonable.
Why do you find him credible? Like, what has he done other than claim VT?I'm worried the sudgy wagon is forming for him being clumsy. Like, we aren't accusing him of anything scum would particularly want to do? If it's a mistake, is it more likely to be a scum mistake? I'd like to have my vote somewhere, but I'm unsure where to put it to.I think not. I reread him, and I have something that no one else pointed out--after being "98.36%
sure that I was scum yesterday, he has said absolutely nothing about me today. And the fact that he jumped on my wagon because of the "mystery case" [grumble grumble] vote: sudgy
This is a good point, even though I mostly find sudgy pretty credible. I don't see the issue with his claim. But this is something.
He didn't claim VT, he claimed doctor that picks three targets and then mcmc saves one. We know mcmc captains something and no one has counterclaimed sudgy. Seems like a believable thing to me, and I find him submitting him wanting to submit his own name totally reasonable.
Why do you find him credible? Like, what has he done other than claim VT?I'm worried the sudgy wagon is forming for him being clumsy. Like, we aren't accusing him of anything scum would particularly want to do? If it's a mistake, is it more likely to be a scum mistake? I'd like to have my vote somewhere, but I'm unsure where to put it to.I think not. I reread him, and I have something that no one else pointed out--after being "98.36%
sure that I was scum yesterday, he has said absolutely nothing about me today. And the fact that he jumped on my wagon because of the "mystery case" [grumble grumble] vote: sudgy
This is a good point, even though I mostly find sudgy pretty credible. I don't see the issue with his claim. But this is something.
He didn't claim VT, he claimed doctor that picks three targets and then mcmc saves one. We know mcmc captains something and no one has counterclaimed sudgy. Seems like a believable thing to me, and I find him submitting him wanting to submit his own name totally reasonable.
Robz, I've come around to the idea of sudgy's claim working like he says it does, except possibly for the "I lose the power when the Captain dies part" - but that doesn't make him town in my eyes. In a game with (apparently) a compulsive Vig and an SK, and what is probably a large Mafia team, the idea of a Mafia Doctor seems eminently plausible to me. Especially balanced with the Captaining aspect.
Don't we also only have sudgy's word it was a doctor mcmc captained? Could be some other role for all we know?
Don't we also only have sudgy's word it was a doctor mcmc captained? Could be some other role for all we know?
Don't we also only have sudgy's word it was a doctor mcmc captained? Could be some other role for all we know?
That would be too risky. If mcmc captained a member of the town, town could counterclaim sudgy immediately. If mcmc captained some other scum, sudgy would look guilty if we ever lynched the true captained scum.
Robz, I've come around to the idea of sudgy's claim working like he says it does, except possibly for the "I lose the power when the Captain dies part" - but that doesn't make him town in my eyes. In a game with (apparently) a compulsive Vig and an SK, and what is probably a large Mafia team, the idea of a Mafia Doctor seems eminently plausible to me. Especially balanced with the Captaining aspect.
But we know mcmc is town. It doesn't make much sense to me that he would pick the person who gets doctored, of scum's targets.
Don't we also only have sudgy's word it was a doctor mcmc captained? Could be some other role for all we know?
This is correct.
Robz, I've come around to the idea of sudgy's claim working like he says it does, except possibly for the "I lose the power when the Captain dies part" - but that doesn't make him town in my eyes. In a game with (apparently) a compulsive Vig and an SK, and what is probably a large Mafia team, the idea of a Mafia Doctor seems eminently plausible to me. Especially balanced with the Captaining aspect.
But we know mcmc is town. It doesn't make much sense to me that he would pick the person who gets doctored, of scum's targets.
Why not? As Scum Captained Doc, sudgy would know his Captain is town (because the Captain isn't part of their scum team). So sudgy has to carefully pick his targets so as not to tip off his Captain that he (sudgy) really wants to protect scum instead of town. And the Captain needs to try to pick right from those targets, and also try to deduce from those targets whether his Captained player is scum or town. Check the mafiascum wiki - it specifically gives crossteam Captaining as its example (although there it's a scum Captain and town Captainees).
It feels like the kind of battle of wits ash and yuma would enjoy setting up. And if that's right, they must have been really annoyed when we lynched the Captain for heavy lurking Day 1. If that's the case: sorry, mods.
Oh I suppose sudgy could have made up the part where mcmc picks, is that what you're saying?Yes. That and a scum doctor being a possibility given the compulsory vig and a likely serial killer.
The way Captain works on mafia wiki is the opposite.Sudgy could be still truthful about his role but lying about his alignment, couldn't he?
The Captain chooses the PR's actions, and the PR chooses whether to follow through on those actions or do nothing.
In the case of what sudgy has claimed, the PR chooses the action and the Captain does a version of choosing how to follow through on them.
If this were a fake claim, wouldn't sudgy claim like the actual mafia wiki version? The fact that what he's claimed is modified makes it more believable here.
I mean it's extremely clever fake claim, if that's what it is.
The way Captain works on mafia wiki is the opposite.
The Captain chooses the PR's actions, and the PR chooses whether to follow through on those actions or do nothing.
In the case of what sudgy has claimed, the PR chooses the action and the Captain does a version of choosing how to follow through on them.
If this were a fake claim, wouldn't sudgy claim like the actual mafia wiki version? The fact that what he's claimed is modified makes it more believable here.
I mean it's extremely clever fake claim, if that's what it is.
What was sudgy's flavor claim?
What was sudgy's flavor claim?
sudgy claimed "Annie Edison, Hospital Administration Intern," and later said, "My PM says that I'm a "hospital administration intern (3-shot captained doctor [I just noticed that I was 3-shot, eep!])"
What was sudgy's flavor claim?
sudgy claimed "Annie Edison, Hospital Administration Intern," and later said, "My PM says that I'm a "hospital administration intern (3-shot captained doctor [I just noticed that I was 3-shot, eep!])"
Annie Edison could be a doctor, but could also be a plethora of other roles. She would be like my tenth pick for doctor flavour across the two shows.What was sudgy's flavor claim?
sudgy claimed "Annie Edison, Hospital Administration Intern," and later said, "My PM says that I'm a "hospital administration intern (3-shot captained doctor [I just noticed that I was 3-shot, eep!])"
What was sudgy's flavor claim?
sudgy claimed "Annie Edison, Hospital Administration Intern," and later said, "My PM says that I'm a "hospital administration intern (3-shot captained doctor [I just noticed that I was 3-shot, eep!])"
Why was the 3-shot important (and more, worthy of an "eep") post-death of the Captain (which is when he made that post).
Separate question for Community savants: does Craig Pelton make sense as an SK?
Separate question for Community savants: does Craig Pelton make sense as an SK?He is the dean of the college. Certainly a very weird guy, walks around the campus in woman's clothes or various other creative costumes, but is very good-hearted and kid. I don't think he has shown no any signs of a dark side, more of an unfortunate character really.
Voting for someone for defending you... I don't know, it strikes me more as a scum thing to do.bocaJ - I haven't really had any reason to doubt him since his claim. I thought it was genuine at the time, and I haven't had any reason to doubt him since. Yes, he's lurking, but also keep in mind this is his first game on the forums -- I think it's a definite possibility that he just had no idea what he was getting into, and how much of a commitment it was. Still, I haven't seen anything that screams scum. I'd be null without the claim i think, but with the claim, I think he's town.
Thanks for your support TA.
vote: Twistedarcher
In addition to reasons mentioned by others, here is the rest of my reasoning:I don't think TA is defending you here, it's much more that he relates to you because you both don't like the secret information floating around.
Twistedarcher accurately describes what has happened to me this game without any reservations as to the possibility of my guilt. I think a town player, given the suspicion laid on me by the IC, would at least express some reservations as to my guilt or innocence. But a scum player would know my innocence, and would express no doubt, just as TA has done. I also think a scum player, themselves a lynch target for the day, would try to garner the support of a new player by supporting that player.
And this is not the first time TA has supported me.
On Day 2, after Voltgloss briefly voted me for offering to proxy my vote, TA stood up on my behalf:And then when a townie comes and says "Hey, I have no freaking clue what's going on, but I am going to trust the IC on this one and vote where he wants" you respond to that by a vote???
That's not what he said. Or at least, not what I understood him to say. I understood him to be saying "I'm not going to try any more and I will just vote wherever the IC wants, for the rest of the game."
No, bocaJ pledging his vote to you was based on the amount of secret information going around, in his words. But whatever, this thread is long enough already that I don't think we need to argue about this
It makes a lot of sense for scum to offer me such full throated support. They know my claim is true. If I'm not lynched, they're likely to gain my support if it ever looks like I might vote against them. Also, if town stops believing me, I might be investigated and kill one of them. If I am lynched, then when I flip green, they get town cred for being consistent backers of the noob.This Dsell reference is so out of place. Why do you even mention it? The rest of this post is all defense and case against TA, what does this do here? Strange.
I have not done a reread, but I have a weak scum read on dsell based on my early notes on his voting pattern D1. Not enough that I would vote for him today though.
I'll also say a few things in my own defense. There are four main reasons I've been accused/FOS'd of being scum since day two: First, my request that Voltgloss demand enabled roles self reveal looked like I had foreknowledge; second, that my mail-mi claim was weak; third, that my PR claim is a great scum PR claim; finally, that I'm lurking."I posted in order not to get lynched" - really? This is exactly how scum might react, you know? They have a much bigger incentive not to get lynched than town.
To be honest, I felt like I was in a catch-22 with Voltgloss. I'm a new player, I'm barely able to keep up with reading (much less re-reading) everyone's posts, and there's a lot of secret information going around. Based especially on that last point, I thought in those circumstances, it made a lot of sense to proxy my vote to someone I knew wasn't trying to maliciously influence me. Voltgloss forcefully tells me this is wrong. I read his post as saying that he, as IC, needed town players who were willing to keep looking at the board and bring up ideas that had not been thought of before. So I thought about it, and posted a gambit that I thought might work, and then get accused of being scum... again. I was not posting because I had secret knowledge of what roles existed, I posted because it had been made clear that if I didn't start coming up with more for scum hunting, I would be lynched.
Yes, my case against mail-mi was weak. I said so. In fact, I initially posted it without even giving it a read one way or another because I wanted people to make their own read on a piece of evidence that was obvious to me (because it involved my flavor character) but might easily have been missed by one of them. Again, I haven't had time to reread, I haven't played enough to spot subtle contradictions between scum!player in one game and town!player in another, so I thought the best I could contribute to scum hunting, be it ever so modest a contribution, was to point out that, "hey, I thought it was weird that mail-mi missed this."Here your defense is "I wanted to contribute to scumhunting without taking a stand", which is totally what scum would want to do.
I understand that in evaluating my PGOx2 claim, you have to consider that it might be a claim passed to me by scum. But unless you think that more times than not, senior scum will direct noob scum to make such a claim, then that potentiality should only temper how strong a town read you accord to my claim, it should not make the claim itself grounds to read me as scum. Also, I would point out that I was the first person to claim to have an n-shot ability. From what I've read so far, such a limitation is somewhat uncommon, but in this game, we have seen several people since I have claimed also claim to have n-shot abilities. If I were scum-being-coached, it seems unlikely that scum would coach me to claim an odd variant of an already odd ability, before many people had claimed similar variants. In short, the subsequent revealing of multiple n-shot abilities should lend credence to my claim.I don't think that the fact that there are other n-shot abilities out there does acquit you in any way. Firstly, it's not totally off to put that in a fake claim, as others stated. Secondly, if you're part of a scum team, you know their roles, and maybe one of your partners has an n-shot ability and got the idea for your fake claim from that.
Finally... lurking. I am at the bottom of the post-count, there is no denying that. I understand the policy reasons of needing to maintain an active town, and needing sufficient posts from each player to generate a town or scum read. If you feel my dearth of posts have undermined those values, nothing I say in a single post is likely to change your read on me. For those on the fence however, I will say that this is my first game. I read the rules and understood that this game was a commitment. I saw that inactivity for 24 hours was grounds for a nudge, and so my initial goal was to have at least two posts every 24 hours. Though I now know I was mistaken, I figured that would be enough to keep the game going and meet my commitment.And now for something really weird:
Also, I figured that other people themselves would be closer to that average. Being wrong on this not only meant I was posting less than I should, but also that I had WAY more reading than I expected going into this (rather large) scum game, leading to even less insightful posts as I struggled to keep up. I'm sorry.Scum game? Why do you call this a scum game? Maybe because you are scum yourself?
I am not asking to be replaced, and I will stick this game through to the best of my abilities, but I probably will seem a bit lurky to everyone. Also, if I do play another round, it will be in a smaller game.
PPE 9
And now for something really weird:QuoteAlso, I figured that other people themselves would be closer to that average. Being wrong on this not only meant I was posting less than I should, but also that I had WAY more reading than I expected going into this (rather large) scum game, leading to even less insightful posts as I struggled to keep up. I'm sorry.Scum game? Why do you call this a scum game? Maybe because you are scum yourself?
I think we should lynch bocaJ today, pretty much done deal.
Alternately, sudgy, but I don't see that argument quite as strongly as bocaJ
(although sudgy's more likely to be Mafia and bocaJ could be SK
, and as was discussed we probably want to hit Mafia if possible).
I know I've asked this before, but I would really appreciate at least one other person analyzing the "are we better off lynching the SK or lynching mafia today" question. I confess I'm having trouble keeping the math right in my head.
Imo we need to hit mafia. The sk should be trying to hit mafia at this point anyway. It doesn't always work out that way, but that's a risk we have to take, I think.
Hey Volt, I responded too.I know I've asked this before, but I would really appreciate at least one other person analyzing the "are we better off lynching the SK or lynching mafia today" question. I confess I'm having trouble keeping the math right in my head.
Imo we need to hit mafia. The sk should be trying to hit mafia at this point anyway. It doesn't always work out that way, but that's a risk we have to take, I think.
I think we should lynch bocaJ today, pretty much done deal.
Why do you think this?
I have a concept in my head regarding where we will find the most scum - namely, I suspect Dunphys. This is because of my real naivety - I will always get not guilty on Dunphys, I can investigate other MF members.Alternately, sudgy, but I don't see that argument quite as strongly as bocaJ
Why do you think this?
His "now I'm a VT" claim - Captain is not Enabler.(although sudgy's more likely to be Mafia and bocaJ could be SK
Why do you think this?
I feel like if I were SK I'd claim PGO to dissuade both sides from targeting me; however I believe sudgy is a Captained (scum) doctor and that makes more sense if you're Mafia., and as was discussed we probably want to hit Mafia if possible).
Two people have discussed this: TA saying "we should lynch SK," and Robz saying "we should lynch Mafia." I take it you agree with Robz and disagree with TA. Why do you think this?
This is because of my real naivety - I will always get not guilty on Dunphys, I can investigate other MF members.
Vote: chairs
I need to check something.
Galz claimed "Phil Dunphy" at 10/3/13, 12:26:02 a.m. I am pretty sure that, before then, there hadn't been any clues to Galz's flavor role. This is worth a careful reread to confirm, but I certainly don't remember any.This is what immediately came to my mind when I read this. And why would chairs lie to us?
Almost a week earlier, at 9/28/13, 5:39:00 p.m., chairs posted: "I investigated Galzria, but I am naive towards modern family. Sorry :("
If what chairs is telling us now is true, then he would not have assumed his investigation on Galz was useless at the time he told us it was.
Please, people check the record to confirm. But I see a strong possibility that we just caught scum tripping themselves up.
Query: does chairs' latest claim make him more or less likely to be scum?
Galz claimed "Phil Dunphy" at 10/3/13, 12:26:02 a.m. I am pretty sure that, before then, there hadn't been any clues to Galz's flavor role. This is worth a careful reread to confirm, but I certainly don't remember any.
Almost a week earlier, at 9/28/13, 5:39:00 p.m., chairs posted: "I investigated Galzria, but I am naive towards modern family. Sorry :("
If what chairs is telling us now is true, then he would not have assumed his investigation on Galz was useless at the time he told us it was.
Please, people check the record to confirm. But I see a strong possibility that we just caught scum tripping themselves up.
Galz claimed "Phil Dunphy" at 10/3/13, 12:26:02 a.m. I am pretty sure that, before then, there hadn't been any clues to Galz's flavor role. This is worth a careful reread to confirm, but I certainly don't remember any.
Almost a week earlier, at 9/28/13, 5:39:00 p.m., chairs posted: "I investigated Galzria, but I am naive towards modern family. Sorry :("
If what chairs is telling us now is true, then he would not have assumed his investigation on Galz was useless at the time he told us it was.
Please, people check the record to confirm. But I see a strong possibility that we just caught scum tripping themselves up.
I claimed MF early D2.
I claimed Phil late D2.
A question I'd like all to answer who are voting chairs or keen to vote chairs: Why would scum!chairs do this now? What's his angle?Ugh, that's a good question. First of all, I don't see any reason why town!chairs would do that, which is why I voted. As scum, well, maybe he messed up/misremembered his fake claim. Maybe he has some weird role that somehow benefits from this (but I have no idea what that would be). Maybe he even profits somehow from getting himself lynched (in which case we probably should be careful here).
Have we already had chairs claim his secondary wincon? I can't remember.
Thanks. This actually makes it seem more likely that chairs profits from being lynched. Because otherwise, this would be a terrible wincon. Okay, after my initial excitement, I'm back to vote: bocaJ and think Jorbles should consider shooting chairs.Have we already had chairs claim his secondary wincon? I can't remember.
chairs claimed his secondary win con is "to get to l-1 with only male flavor roles voting for me."
I'm inclined to believe that chairs is scum. I he was up there on my list early today when he conveniently investigated me after I became IC. Once others have a chance to chime in, I will vote chairs. But I will still go back and re-read faust and Dsell tonight.Oh, I did not intend to say that chairs wasn't scummy. Just that maybe we're better off lynching some other scum first.
PPE: I disagree faust. The advantage could be that he is actually an other enabler or captain or something as scum enabling/captaining town. I don't know, but the secondary wincon does not make me believe he is any less scummy.
Wow, okay, madness.
Chairs, did you not realize until now that you were naive toward all but Dunphys, or did you lie about your role?
Wow, okay, madness.
Chairs, did you not realize until now that you were naive toward all but Dunphys, or did you lie about your role?
When I initially discussed on d2 I didn't realize that there would be non Dunphy characters from modern family because the website I went to only listed them as major characters. Once I realized there were non Dunphy people I kept quiet hoping to see full flavor claims for more people to investigate. But since I couldn't explain my sudden theory without the clarification and it looked like we'd basically gotten all the claims I could reasonably be expected to survive anyway.
Wow, okay, madness.
Chairs, did you not realize until now that you were naive toward all but Dunphys, or did you lie about your role?
When I initially discussed on d2 I didn't realize that there would be non Dunphy characters from modern family because the website I went to only listed them as major characters. Once I realized there were non Dunphy people I kept quiet hoping to see full flavor claims for more people to investigate. But since I couldn't explain my sudden theory without the clarification and it looked like we'd basically gotten all the claims I could reasonably be expected to survive anyway.
What website did you go to? Give it up, quick.
Wow, okay, madness.
Chairs, did you not realize until now that you were naive toward all but Dunphys, or did you lie about your role?
When I initially discussed on d2 I didn't realize that there would be non Dunphy characters from modern family because the website I went to only listed them as major characters. Once I realized there were non Dunphy people I kept quiet hoping to see full flavor claims for more people to investigate. But since I couldn't explain my sudden theory without the clarification and it looked like we'd basically gotten all the claims I could reasonably be expected to survive anyway.
What website did you go to? Give it up, quick.
I think it was a wikia one? I don't know for sure.
Wow, okay, madness.
Chairs, did you not realize until now that you were naive toward all but Dunphys, or did you lie about your role?
When I initially discussed on d2 I didn't realize that there would be non Dunphy characters from modern family because the website I went to only listed them as major characters. Once I realized there were non Dunphy people I kept quiet hoping to see full flavor claims for more people to investigate. But since I couldn't explain my sudden theory without the clarification and it looked like we'd basically gotten all the claims I could reasonably be expected to survive anyway.
Wow, okay, madness.
Chairs, did you not realize until now that you were naive toward all but Dunphys, or did you lie about your role?
When I initially discussed on d2 I didn't realize that there would be non Dunphy characters from modern family because the website I went to only listed them as major characters. Once I realized there were non Dunphy people I kept quiet hoping to see full flavor claims for more people to investigate. But since I couldn't explain my sudden theory without the clarification and it looked like we'd basically gotten all the claims I could reasonably be expected to survive anyway.
What website did you go to? Give it up, quick.
I think it was a wikia one? I don't know for sure.
Not good enough! Those are very thorough, usually!
Until he is dead.
Until he is dead.
Are we through discussing TA/Dsell for today? Or do you want more time to work out where everything sits? I think we've got a pretty good breakdown of where scum lies, so Jorbles should have a really good shot tonight.
A question I'd like all to answer who are voting chairs or keen to vote chairs: Why would scum!chairs do this now? What's his angle?
Also, here's my personal answer to my own question:A question I'd like all to answer who are voting chairs or keen to vote chairs: Why would scum!chairs do this now? What's his angle?
Assuming chairs does flip scum, I can see at least one reason why he'd pull something this drastic - if the list I posted before, about "four scum in these six people," scared the scummy bejeezus out of him. Say you're scum and see the IC post such a list, and not only you but all (or nearly all) of your scumpartners are on it. As scum in such a position, I'd certainly contemplate taking drastic action.
It has always felt weird to me that we have an Enabler - now two Enablers! - but also have a Captain in the manner sudgy describes. Because the Captain, if sudgy is telling the truth, has the exact same function as an Enabler (if the Captain dies the Captained role loses their power), plus all of the other Captained stuff.
I mean, I don't think sudgy is lying about the "I choose three targets and he picks one" aspect. That's just really out of left field for scum to make up. Like Walrus's "Modified Gunsmith" role (which I correctly pegged as town).
sudgy, would you have had an opportunity to accept or reject mcmc's choice of who you should doctor?
My point is though, just because choosing "Sudgy" is an illegal target, is there anything wrong with submitting an illegal target? Like if Sudgy insisted "No, I know it's illegal, and won't work if it's chosen, but submit me anyway", would that be allowed?
I guess we're at the point where we honestly have no idea, but I don't think it's out of the question that Sudgy, as doctor, could have illegally submitted his own name
I'm worried the sudgy wagon is forming for him being clumsy. Like, we aren't accusing him of anything scum would particularly want to do? If it's a mistake, is it more likely to be a scum mistake? I'd like to have my vote somewhere, but I'm unsure where to put it to.I think not. I reread him, and I have something that no one else pointed out--after being "98.36%
sure that I was scum yesterday, he has said absolutely nothing about me today. And the fact that he jumped on my wagon because of the "mystery case" [grumble grumble] vote: sudgy
Chairs, before we lynch you... are you POSITIVE that your role works the way you now think that it works? Like, you were wrong before, but not wrong now?
Chairs, before we lynch you... are you POSITIVE that your role works the way you now think that it works? Like, you were wrong before, but not wrong now?
I'm 100% certain that I'm naive to Dunphys, not to the entirety of the Modern Family cast. I just (mistakenly) assumed Dunphys = Modern Family for the purposes of flavor.
chairs, it's the "I looked it up on a wikia and the only main characters listed were Dunphys" thing that seals the deal for me. I just can't believe this. Unless you can link us the wiki you checked that is so inaccurate.
chairs, it's the "I looked it up on a wikia and the only main characters listed were Dunphys" thing that seals the deal for me. I just can't believe this. Unless you can link us the wiki you checked that is so inaccurate.
Yup.
My problem, which is always my problem as town, is how to differentiate "poor town play" from "scum play."
And erroneously crediting play that "makes sense" - and turns out to be scum - vs. play that "doesn't make sense," yet turns out to be town.
My problem, which is always my problem as town, is how to differentiate "poor town play" from "scum play."
And erroneously crediting play that "makes sense" - and turns out to be scum - vs. play that "doesn't make sense," yet turns out to be town.
As I said, that's the exact struggle I'm having right now.
My problem, which is always my problem as town, is how to differentiate "poor town play" from "scum play."
And erroneously crediting play that "makes sense" - and turns out to be scum - vs. play that "doesn't make sense," yet turns out to be town.
As I said, that's the exact struggle I'm having right now.
The other struggle I'm having is whether you and Robz might possibly be a scum Encryptor team leading us all to wrack and ruin.
I don't need to explain to you why that scenario is the stuff of nightmares - particularly, and especially, for me.
It's very likely that chairs useless results from last night are caused by him being outplayed by scum. On the surface it seems like a great choice to investigate Ahoppy or Voltaire, you can clear two people in one investigation. I don't think it was necessary with Walrus's investigation on Voltaire already happening and Ahoppy and Voltaire vouching for each other, but I digress. I see why it's an appealing investigation. The problem is that scum can see it to, and there's tons of benefits to seeing it. If they kill one of them they can not only kill someone who is basically IC at this point, they can also frame the cop for his scummy result, and they don't even have to do anything, town will see it and do it for them, which is happening right now. Mistakes chairs made don't add up to scum, I think they're much more likely to be town mistakes. Scum would have talked this over and he would have a solid claim, he would not be scrambling like this right now, adding new details to how his role works.
What's an Encryptor team? (I know, I could look it up. I'm lazy and getting ready for work though).
What's an Encryptor team? (I know, I could look it up. I'm lazy and getting ready for work though).
Mafia that have daychat.
My problem, which is always my problem as town, is how to differentiate "poor town play" from "scum play."
And erroneously crediting play that "makes sense" - and turns out to be scum - vs. play that "doesn't make sense," yet turns out to be town.
As I said, that's the exact struggle I'm having right now.
The other struggle I'm having is whether you and Robz might possibly be a scum Encryptor team leading us all to wrack and ruin.
I don't need to explain to you why that scenario is the stuff of nightmares - particularly, and especially, for me.
The nightmare scenario I understand. What's an Encryptor team? (I know, I could look it up. I'm lazy and getting ready for work though).
What's an Encryptor team? (I know, I could look it up. I'm lazy and getting ready for work though).
Mafia that have daychat.
Haha, wait, no, I didn't understand the full complexity of the "nightmare scenario" in personal regard to you. That's really tough, and I feel you. If nothing else I wish Robz had grabbed someone other than me so that you weren't left dreading M-II again.
Haha, wait, no, I didn't understand the full complexity of the "nightmare scenario" in personal regard to you. That's really tough, and I feel you. If nothing else I wish Robz had grabbed someone other than me so that you weren't left dreading M-II again.
The whole "secret case" on mail-mi only makes it worse. Like, I've had in the back of my head ever since then, "could Galz and Robz be scum who concocted that whole scenario specifically to get me to think they are town?"
It's made for a really stressful game for me (and being IC is stressful as it is). You self-voting and Robz all-but-self-voting didn't help either. Whether you intended it or not (and I don't think it's likely you intended it even IF you are scum), I felt a level of emotional blackmail resulting from that which was so unpleasant it made me want to /out and abandon mafia altogether. I've since reconsidered, but man, I will be personally unhappy with myself if the two of you are in fact scum.
Like, I wouldn't expect such diabolical maneuvering of anyone else in this game. Nor do I really expect it of you two. But I do think it's possible that you two could cook that up, especially with daychat. I'd think the same of, say, an ash/yuma pairing with daychat.
I'm kinda rambling but this as all been on my mind for a while and it's interfering enough with my thought process I guess it's probably better to get it all out there.
Does it make a difference to you that I don't know if the subject matter of the "secret case" is true or not? Like, I was never actually informed. I've only got Robz' word on the matter, which may be as trustworthy as his alignment. Just feels like it's a bit odd to cook up, so I've believed it. But it very well may not be true.
unvote.
I'll let you decide if to lynch me or if you think vig ought to shoot me or if you want me to give one more investigation (though if my theory's right, my investigations are all useless).
unvote.
I'll let you decide if to lynch me or if you think vig ought to shoot me or if you want me to give one more investigation (though if my theory's right, my investigations are all useless).
unvote.
I'll let you decide if to lynch me or if you think vig ought to shoot me or if you want me to give one more investigation (though if my theory's right, my investigations are all useless).
Thing is, you're a Dunphy. I'm a Dunphy. There's only 3 more Dunphy's. That's way too few scum.
unvote.
I'll let you decide if to lynch me or if you think vig ought to shoot me or if you want me to give one more investigation (though if my theory's right, my investigations are all useless).
Thing is, you're a Dunphy. I'm a Dunphy. There's only 3 more Dunphy's. That's way too few scum.
I think he was saying that all Dunphys (if that's how you spell it) other than himself are scum, including you.
And, if multiple people in the Dunphy family isn't spelled "Dunphys", that isn't what he was thinking. ;)
unvote.
I'll let you decide if to lynch me or if you think vig ought to shoot me or if you want me to give one more investigation (though if my theory's right, my investigations are all useless).
Thing is, you're a Dunphy. I'm a Dunphy. There's only 3 more Dunphy's. That's way too few scum.
I think he was saying that all Dunphys (if that's how you spell it) other than himself are scum, including you.
And, if multiple people in the Dunphy family isn't spelled "Dunphys", that isn't what he was thinking. ;)
So 4 scum in 21?
As to the numbers though, I'd say 4 scum is possible as is 5, since we're pretty sure there's an SK in the mix as well. I would not be surprised by one or the the other.
Voltgloss, I'm headed back to work. If you agree regarding the secret case, make those outside of us that claimed to see it / understand it while voting mail-mi explain it first. EFHW pops into mind under this category, but there may have been others.
Voltgloss, I'm headed back to work. If you agree regarding the secret case, make those outside of us that claimed to see it / understand it while voting mail-mi explain it first. EFHW pops into mind under this category, but there may have been others.
It's an interesting idea, Galz.
1. I would like Robz's comments before I weigh in with my own.
2. If we do make it public, I absolutely want EFHW to explain it first. I don't think there was anyone else who claimed to have understood it, but I will doublecheck.
Galz and I are continuing to argue about it. Whole thread does not need to come to a standstill in the meantime...
b) The town narrative is that he misread his pm, made numerous mistakes afterwards and tried to cover them up with some half-truths, only to fullclaim everything now?
Well, misunderstood his pm. Yes. It's quite hard to believe that could be true, but it's also hard to believe he'd be this derp as scum. I'm very much with you on that making it hard. I guess it would be good to set a precedent of "if you derp, you get punished for it", because we don't want to allow scum to hide behind "I just made a simple mistake".b) The town narrative is that he misread his pm, made numerous mistakes afterwards and tried to cover them up with some half-truths, only to fullclaim everything now?
I don't think chairs has claimed he misread his PM. Rather, chairs has told us he assumed "all Modern Family characters are Dunphys," got Internet confirmation of this, and then only just recently realized this was an error. (Despite various posts in the thread both implicitly and expressly contradicting this.)
The town!chairs narrative asks us to believe that chairs (1) got an investigative role hinging on flavor, and then (2) ignored the majority of the discussion in the thread that actually had to do with flavor.
I mean, it's possible, I guess. It's definitely "derp town" play, rather egregiously so. It's the same problem I have with reading sudgy.
There are a lot of holes in chairs' story. On the other hand, if he is who he says he is, then in case Eevee is not an SK he could investigate me, since I seem to be next on the suspect list for SK. So I'd rather lynch someone else today just in case.Having someone who is mainly suspected of being a SK investigated doesn't sound optimal, as SK's quite often have investigation immunity. Especially as the cop in this case is an unreliable source, I don't think we'd gain much from investigating you.
interesting. Do you think chairs' investigations from now on will not be useful, then, since he is seen as unreliable? We don't know Dsell's or TA's PRs, so maybe it's better to lynch chairs if his PR is no longer useful.Well, they will be less credible until he flips (after which they'll be either completely useless or fully credible again).
Volt, do you want to not bring people to half L-1 or not?
What family is Robz from?
What family is Robz from?
He hasn't disclosed his flavor in the thread. Going by who's left out of the main characters, he's either Mitchell Pritchett or Alex Dunphy. Whichever he isn't, TA is.
Robz, how did your flavor explain why you are a neighborizer? I know "it's just flavor", but neither of those two strike to me as names you'd tag on a neighborizer role.
What family is Robz from?
He hasn't disclosed his flavor in the thread. Going by who's left out of the main characters, he's either Mitchell Pritchett or Alex Dunphy. Whichever he isn't, TA is.
Volt, do you want to not bring people to half L-1 or not?
Is that all you care about?
Well, you don't have to, but we've been trying trying to figure if claimed roles make sense for claimed flavor characters so I'd have an interest in it.Robz, how did your flavor explain why you are a neighborizer? I know "it's just flavor", but neither of those two strike to me as names you'd tag on a neighborizer role.
I don't remember. Not in any obvious way where I went, "oh yes, of course!" Do I really have to dig up my PM for this?
Vote: Sudgy
Vote: Robz
Vote: Sudgy
Vote: Sudgy
Vote: Robz
Vote: Sudgy
?
Why did you go sudgy-robz-sudgy?Vote: Sudgy
Vote: Robz
Vote: Sudgy
?
It's where my vote was before Chairs, and I think you're the most likely scum in the group of people alive, so I put it back.
Well I guess I should flavor claim, so chairs can investigate the right person, then? Assuming we don't lynch him? That's fine with me, as long as Voltgloss or Ahoppy say so.
Why did you go sudgy-robz-sudgy?Vote: Sudgy
Vote: Robz
Vote: Sudgy
?
It's where my vote was before Chairs, and I think you're the most likely scum in the group of people alive, so I put it back.
Hey, I'm here. Catching up now. I can flavor claim in place of Robz, since it seems like that would be pretty much the same if we're the only two left?Yea.
Ok, I'm surprised no one picked up on it from my secondary win condition, but I am Mitchell Pritchett. I wanted my mother to be invited to the party!
Here's a question - Why isn't chairs dead yet?5. Scum feels he is scummy enough they might get him mislynched?
1. He's scum.
2. Scum are all MF and haven't felt threatened (unknowing that non-Dunphy's can be investigated).
3. Scum have a targeting limitation similar to mine.
4. We have some protective PR we don't know about.
Here's a question - Why isn't chairs dead yet?
1. He's scum.
2. Scum are all MF and haven't felt threatened (unknowing that non-Dunphy's can be investigated).
3. Scum have a targeting limitation similar to mine.
4. We have some protective PR we don't know about.
What IS more interesting actually is that Chairs was not targeted by the SK. Perhaps that means that our SK is more likely from Modern Family than from Community?
Ok, I'm surprised no one picked up on it from my secondary win condition, but I am Mitchell Pritchett. I wanted my mother to be invited to the party!
Ok, I'm surprised no one picked up on it from my secondary win condition, but I am Mitchell Pritchett. I wanted my mother to be invited to the party!
I did figure you were Mitchell Pritchett.
I was also kinda surprised to see Galz ask what Robz's flavor was. For some reason I thought they'd indicated they'd already shared flavor with each other. But perhaps I just assumed that.
What IS more interesting actually is that Chairs was not targeted by the SK. Perhaps that means that our SK is more likely from Modern Family than from Community?
Or it means that EFHW is our SK and can only target people who get (L-1)/2 votes the preceding day. Which I think did NOT include chairs.
Yeah, if Chairs is town, he certainly wasn't a threat to scum last night. Not with his investigation likely headed towards Voltaire/AHoppy.
Yeah, if Chairs is town, he certainly wasn't a threat to scum last night. Not with his investigation likely headed towards Voltaire/AHoppy.
Well, I don't know we can leap to that conclusion. A chairs investigation making two ICs isn't something scum will take lightly. I know as scum in LOTR2 I was more worried about town investigators making other townies become IC then I was about scum being investigated themselves.
Everyone who has died at night, except for Walrus, has been in the greater than 1/2 of L-1 votes category. It might be a coincidence, but I think I might not be the only one with this kind of targeting restriction.
What IS more interesting actually is that Chairs was not targeted by the SK. Perhaps that means that our SK is more likely from Modern Family than from Community?
Or it means that EFHW is our SK and can only target people who get (L-1)/2 votes the preceding day. Which I think did NOT include chairs.
Ah yes, this too. But I think that, if SK, Eevee may have wanted to shoot Chairs, given he's from Community.
Yeah, if Chairs is town, he certainly wasn't a threat to scum last night. Not with his investigation likely headed towards Voltaire/AHoppy.
Well, I don't know we can leap to that conclusion. A chairs investigation making two ICs isn't something scum will take lightly. I know as scum in LOTR2 I was more worried about town investigators making other townies become IC then I was about scum being investigated themselves.
One IC. And they were making that true anyway the moment they decided to kill one of the Best Friends.
Yeah, if Chairs is town, he certainly wasn't a threat to scum last night. Not with his investigation likely headed towards Voltaire/AHoppy.
Well, I don't know we can leap to that conclusion. A chairs investigation making two ICs isn't something scum will take lightly. I know as scum in LOTR2 I was more worried about town investigators making other townies become IC then I was about scum being investigated themselves.
One IC. And they were making that true anyway the moment they decided to kill one of the Best Friends.
Yeah, if Chairs is town, he certainly wasn't a threat to scum last night. Not with his investigation likely headed towards Voltaire/AHoppy.
Well, I don't know we can leap to that conclusion. A chairs investigation making two ICs isn't something scum will take lightly. I know as scum in LOTR2 I was more worried about town investigators making other townies become IC then I was about scum being investigated themselves.
One IC. And they were making that true anyway the moment they decided to kill one of the Best Friends.
I don't understand the "one IC" comment. More to the point: I think the SK killed Voltaire. Why would scum actively create an IC (AHoppy)? Regardless of whether chairs is scum or not.
Voltaire never hit half L-1 D2, did he?
Voltgloss:
http://modernfamily.wikia.com/wiki/Alex_Dunphy
Does Robz chances of being either scum or (more likely, I think) third party go up based on the above article about his character, and what you know of his role?
Voltgloss:
http://modernfamily.wikia.com/wiki/Alex_Dunphy
Does Robz chances of being either scum or (more likely, I think) third party go up based on the above article about his character, and what you know of his role?
The very beginning of Day 2 voting history:
Day 2 voting history
Robz votes Eevee {1}
Archetype votes Walrus {1}
Robz unvotes Eevee {0}, votes Voltaire {1}
Voltaire votes EFHW {1}
mail-mi votes Voltaire {2}
Galzria votes Voltaire {3}
EFHW votes Voltaire {4}
A certain pair of somebodies were convinced Voltaire was SK. mail-mi jumped aboard and EFHW cast her patented (L-1)/2 vote.
With 17 alive, it took 9 to lynch. Wouldn't he have needed 5 votes to meet EFHW's list? That's only 4.
Voltgloss:
http://modernfamily.wikia.com/wiki/Alex_Dunphy
Does Robz chances of being either scum or (more likely, I think) third party go up based on the above article about his character, and what you know of his role?
Voltgloss:
http://modernfamily.wikia.com/wiki/Alex_Dunphy
Does Robz chances of being either scum or (more likely, I think) third party go up based on the above article about his character, and what you know of his role?
I see what you mean. I actually think scum more likely than third party, but that has less to do with Robz and more to do with my thinking that Eevee is in fact Survivor and that EFHW is SK. That would make a lot of third-parties.
I suggest you ask Robz to give a full flavor-claim in your QT, if he hasn't already.
Everyone who has died at night, except for Walrus, has been in the greater than 1/2 of L-1 votes category. It might be a coincidence, but I think I might not be the only one with this kind of targeting restriction.
Yeah, just looked back, and he only hit 4. So this probably makes EFHW less likely a SK.
PPE: Voltgloss, 4 is not half of 9...I think that's the simplest way to look at it.
I know his flavor name through PoE. I know his secondary win con because he told me. I know his Role name because he told me. What else could he claim?
His flavor-role. Yours is "World's Coolest Dad" (or something like that). What's his?
I know his flavor name through PoE. I know his secondary win con because he told me. I know his Role name because he told me. What else could he claim?
Fwiw I think the likeliest scenario is that EFHW is what she claims and there is a serial killer going unsuspected somewhere.
Yeah, just looked back, and he only hit 4. So this probably makes EFHW less likely a SK.
PPE: Voltgloss, 4 is not half of 9...I think that's the simplest way to look at it.
Wrong wrong wrong. It's half of L-1. EFHW told us that. L-1 is 8. Half of 8 is 4.
It's the same way she could have targeted shraeye on N1. She told us shraeye was one of her possible targets. shraeye got 5 votes (due to nkirbit's quotefail vote). It took 11 votes to lynch on D1. L-1 is 10. Half of 10 is 5.
Well, I have the luxury of knowing it's not me, but I think EFHW wouldn't want to fakeclaim a role that proved a SK exists if she was one.Fwiw I think the likeliest scenario is that EFHW is what she claims and there is a serial killer going unsuspected somewhere.
Why do you think that?
It's the same way she could have targeted shraeye on N1. She told us shraeye was one of her possible targets. shraeye got 5 votes (due to nkirbit's quotefail vote). It took 11 votes to lynch on D1. L-1 is 10. Half of 10 is 5.
Well, I have the luxury of knowing it's not me, but I think EFHW wouldn't want to fakeclaim a role that proved a SK exists if she was one.Fwiw I think the likeliest scenario is that EFHW is what she claims and there is a serial killer going unsuspected somewhere.
Why do you think that?
It's the same way she could have targeted shraeye on N1. She told us shraeye was one of her possible targets. shraeye got 5 votes (due to nkirbit's quotefail vote). It took 11 votes to lynch on D1. L-1 is 10. Half of 10 is 5.
Note that I'm not saying here I think EFHW targeted shraeye N1. I did - until Jorbles' claim. I think it much more likely that EFHW targeted Galzria, for all of the reasons that faust explained on Day 1 why an SK targeting Galz made sense; and that she walked right into faust's plan to jailkeep Galzria and stop that kill from going through.
Which incidentally makes me inclined to see faust as town.
TA, I know you in particular feel otherwise (re: faust). Can you summarize for me the case on faust?
He was the scummiest player on the Nkirbit wagon (really weak reasons for being on it, consistently interpreting actions that could go either way towards Nkirbit being scum when it was clear a lot of people were willing to sheep), I think the symmetry makes him more likely to be scum than town (given that I believe Galzria is town), and I think his initial reaction to claiming today was scummy and evasive and that he would have rather gone without claiming, even though his role supposedly has no further utility.
Because he's newbie scum.
He was the scummiest player on the Nkirbit wagon (really weak reasons for being on it, consistently interpreting actions that could go either way towards Nkirbit being scum when it was clear a lot of people were willing to sheep), I think the symmetry makes him more likely to be scum than town (given that I believe Galzria is town), and I think his initial reaction to claiming today was scummy and evasive and that he would have rather gone without claiming, even though his role supposedly has no further utility.
Thanks. I'll review these.
Question for you:
Archetype was at L-1 on Day 2 when faust claimed to be Enabled. The flavor roles strongly suggest that Arch enabled faust and Galz enabled shraeye. That means that, when Arch was at L-1 and clearly about to be lynched, faust claimed to be Enabled and hammered.
This means that, if faust were scum, he'd just hammered his Enabler. Now, I can see why scum might still want to do that, depending how strong a power role they're losing - especially with Arch on the chopping block anyway.
But why claim Enabler first and THEN hammer? Why not just hammer, or let someone else hammer?
That's a key issue I struggle with when parsing the scum!faust narrative.
But why claim Enabler first and THEN hammer? Why not just hammer, or let someone else hammer?Because he's newbie scum.
That's a key issue I struggle with when parsing the scum!faust narrative.
bocaJ: I will not be demanding an Enabled player claims. If one exists, they can, and should, make their own decision as to how to proceed.
Also, your suggestion that "if we find the player who claimed is towny, we give Archetype a pass for tonight" ignores the possibility of Arch being a scum Enabler who enables Town.
bocaJ: I will not be demanding an Enabled player claims. If one exists, they can, and should, make their own decision as to how to proceed.
Also, your suggestion that "if we find the player who claimed is towny, we give Archetype a pass for tonight" ignores the possibility of Arch being a scum Enabler who enables Town.
Well, part of the reason is probably this post. It's not explicitly saying it, but it's implying that you would think that an enabled power, if they were to claim, would be town, given that they would make their own decision on how to proceed [for the betterment of town]. Basically, if there's a town player out there, make your own decision on how to claim.
Given the scum reads on Arch, and Galzria's post on symmetry, it led to an environment where an enabled claim would be believed over Archetype.
I think it makes sense that he'd claim, then hammer, rather than hammer, then claim.
Newbiescum!faust's thought process: "Hey, I can garuntee this mislynch go through if I claim enabled!" Or something to that effect. And I really think the "I'm scummy but not scum!" Tell is damning.But why claim Enabler first and THEN hammer? Why not just hammer, or let someone else hammer?Because he's newbie scum.
That's a key issue I struggle with when parsing the scum!faust narrative.
mail-mi, I don't understand.
EFHW, what is your secondary wincon?It was to be voting on a wagon alone with Jeff Archer/mcmc. I sacrificed it b/c I actually did think mcmc was probably scum.
That is a good point. Also I haven't gotten any royalties on my patent.Everyone who has died at night, except for Walrus, has been in the greater than 1/2 of L-1 votes category. It might be a coincidence, but I think I might not be the only one with this kind of targeting restriction.
You are clearly casting votes specifically in order to satisfy that restriction. You've admitted so yourself. I'm not seeing anyone else from the voting history who is doing that. Do you? Surely if a killing role had that restriction, they'd take steps to actively satisfy it? (like you)
EFHW, what is your secondary wincon?It was to be voting on a wagon alone with Jeff Archer/mcmc. I sacrificed it b/c I actually did think mcmc was probably scum.
Yeah.EFHW, what is your secondary wincon?It was to be voting on a wagon alone with Jeff Archer/mcmc. I sacrificed it b/c I actually did think mcmc was probably scum.
Ah-ha.
Doesn't Dean Craig Pelton have a crush on/be attracted to Jeff Archer? Community savants, help me out.
I don't know about the Dean, but when I looked into my flavor name it said Jeff was his best friend.I guess he isn't particularly friends with the others, and he drinks too much, so he wants to go party with just Jeff. I don't think he is Jeff's best friend, tho.
EFHW, have you seen community?
EFHW, what is your secondary wincon?It was to be voting on a wagon alone with Jeff Archer/mcmc. I sacrificed it b/c I actually did think mcmc was probably scum.
OK, then please explain this...It was clearly stated in thread that he had revealed his flavor. I looked it up, and found it right away. Sudgy and Walrus, too. Part of my suspicion of mcmc was based on the fact that he revealed his flavor and later tried to take the noble pro-town position that flavor claiming was a bad idea b/c of his role.EFHW, what is your secondary wincon?It was to be voting on a wagon alone with Jeff Archer/mcmc. I sacrificed it b/c I actually did think mcmc was probably scum.
Up until his flip, Mcmc never claimed flavor. He wasn't around to claim being Jeff. Unless you had knowledge of the show, you wouldn't know that Mcmc was Jeff from his secondary win condition.
Yet you're saying that you were sure that Mcmc was scum, that you were willing to lynch him despite it hurting your personal win condition.
However, you really couldn't have known that Mcmc was Jeff. So it seems like you're overstating your read on Mcmc for whatever reason -- I don't know why -- but once again, something's not adding up here.
If town: He claimed enablED b/c the call went out for such claims, and he hammered b/c he bought the symmetry argument and was willing to give up his power to catch scum.But why claim Enabler first and THEN hammer? Why not just hammer, or let someone else hammer?Because he's newbie scum.
That's a key issue I struggle with when parsing the scum!faust narrative.
mail-mi, I don't understand.
If town: He claimed enablED b/c the call went out for such claims, and he hammered b/c he bought the symmetry argument and was willing to give up his power to catch scum.But why claim Enabler first and THEN hammer? Why not just hammer, or let someone else hammer?Because he's newbie scum.
That's a key issue I struggle with when parsing the scum!faust narrative.
mail-mi, I don't understand.
If scum: he wanted to create apparent symmetry so Arch would be lynched, and he hammered for towncred.
So maybe that makes town more likely. But the symmetry argument didn't go away, it got louder, pushed primarily ny TA. That is of course another strike aainst my if scum theory.If town: He claimed enablED b/c the call went out for such claims, and he hammered b/c he bought the symmetry argument and was willing to give up his power to catch scum.But why claim Enabler first and THEN hammer? Why not just hammer, or let someone else hammer?Because he's newbie scum.
That's a key issue I struggle with when parsing the scum!faust narrative.
mail-mi, I don't understand.
If scum: he wanted to create apparent symmetry so Arch would be lynched, and he hammered for towncred.
But your "If scum" point makes no sense. "Create... symmetry so Arch would be lynched" was completely unnecessary. Arch was going to get lynched regardless of faust claiming. Heck, he was getting lynched even if faust said nothing at all. "...hammered for towncred" doesn't work either, because scum!faust knows that Arch is town. Therefore the moment Arch's flip is revealed, the symmetry argument that I was making goes out the window, and along with it the idea that the Enabled power would be town to pair with the scum enabler.
If scum: he wanted to create apparent symmetry so Arch would be lynched, and he hammered for towncred.
Can someone explain to me why the symmetry argument applies to Archetype but not to Faust?
Heck, we have one more variable (knowing Archetype's alignment) available to us.
Why could we use it as an argument against Archetype, but when it's brought up against Faust, it's not longer valid? What am I missing here?
If you're town, there's just no way you want to target anyone other than Eevee tonight.
If you're town, there's just no way you want to target anyone other than Eevee tonight.
This was true last night as well. But she didn't do it.
What I don't get is why this argument applied to Galzria, and made him towny, yet made Archetype scummy. It's not as if Faust would have doubted the claim -- he would have known there were two enablers, after Shraeye's flip. But the same arguments that he uses to defend Galzria aren't applied to Archetype.
Another unrelated thing that I picked up on -- at least twice he pushed the idea of multiple scum teams, which is probably something that a member of a large scum team would want to do.
Sorry guys, really busy afternoon. Had a TV appearance and am now planning to rob a pharmacy.
Sorry guys, really busy afternoon. Had a TV appearance and am now planning to rob a pharmacy.
Sorry guys, really busy afternoon. Had a TV appearance and am now planning to rob a pharmacy.
But seriously, if this is some Modern Family or Community reference I am completely at sea.
Would love more people's perspective on whether or not we want to lynch EFHW, the serial killer, today.
I'm pretty sure I missed it, where is the case for EFHW being SK?
Galz, thoughts on TA's post about symmetry? I see what he's saying (I don't think I ever quite understood it before).
EFHW, if you really are who you say you are, why are you so concerned about getting me to halfway to L-1?
If you're town, there's just no way you want to target anyone other than Eevee tonight.
I think it's much more likely you are just trying to get me to your target level so you can add me as a possible target to shoot tonight.
If you're town, there's just no way you want to target anyone other than Eevee tonight.
This was true last night as well. But she didn't do it.
Would love more people's perspective on whether or not we want to lynch EFHW, the serial killer, today.
I guess that's the core of our disagreement, oh well. I don't think either of us is going to convince the other.
Galz, what are your thoughts on EFHW now? Do you think she's a SK, and if so do you think we should lynch her? I know you defended her earlier, and I disagreed with it, but regardless that defense was more of a "not mafia" then a "town" defense, correct?
Ugh, I'm having a terrible IRL couple of hours. Laptop busted, on top of everything else!!!
Are there things I need to address, open questions? I see that TA took care of the claim. I am Alex Dunphy. I'm a straight-A student and I am tutoring people, which is why I can talk to them in neighbor QTs.
Ugh, I'm having a terrible IRL couple of hours. Laptop busted, on top of everything else!!!
Are there things I need to address, open questions? I see that TA took care of the claim. I am Alex Dunphy. I'm a straight-A student and I am tutoring people, which is why I can talk to them in neighbor QTs.
'People'? 'Them'? Or was this just a generalization of your role where 'people' and 'them' refer to whomever you're currently latched on to?
I guess that's the core of our disagreement, oh well. I don't think either of us is going to convince the other.
Galz, what are your thoughts on EFHW now? Do you think she's a SK, and if so do you think we should lynch her? I know you defended her earlier, and I disagreed with it, but regardless that defense was more of a "not mafia" then a "town" defense, correct?
I agree with her being very likely as a SK. I also think we have a large number of town/likely town, and a pool of players that might be scum. So if she's a SK, and we can directly control her, I don't see why we would lynch her. We just have to be careful to pick her target along with our lynch target, each night.
Query: if Eevee were the SK, that means he explicitly declined the chance to reveal himself to EFHW on Day 2. That would mean one of two things:3. He thinks EFHW is town and lying to get the SK to out himself.
1. He thinks EFHW is scum
2. He thinks EFHW is town but has decided he's better off playing to the SK wincon
Seems to me that, regardless of which one of those is true, Eevee's logical kill choice that night is EFHW herself. The fact she survived makes me think SK!Eevee is significantly less likely.
Thoughts?
I think we should lynch TA, Faust, or Galz, in that order of preference.
Maybe, if we leave EFHW alive today, we should have mail-mi roleblock her tonight.This is not a bad idea. We can potentially confirm EFHW and mail-mi at the same time.
Some time ago, but I want to respond:Query: if Eevee were the SK, that means he explicitly declined the chance to reveal himself to EFHW on Day 2. That would mean one of two things:3. He thinks EFHW is town and lying to get the SK to out himself.
1. He thinks EFHW is scum
2. He thinks EFHW is town but has decided he's better off playing to the SK wincon
Seems to me that, regardless of which one of those is true, Eevee's logical kill choice that night is EFHW herself. The fact she survived makes me think SK!Eevee is significantly less likely.
Thoughts?
Maybe, if we leave EFHW alive today, we should have mail-mi roleblock her tonight.This is not a bad idea. We can potentially confirm EFHW and mail-mi at the same time.
... was my first thought. But if EFHW is telling the truth and Eevee is the SK, we won't have him healed tomorrow. So no, not a good idea.
Yeah, I get what you're saying. And that scenario does make sense in my mind. I think your scenario ii is much more likely than your scenario i.I jailkept Galzria over Voltgloss because i) I thought there might be another protective role and they would protect Voltgloss (lacking the additional information I had), so I feared protecting Voltgloss would mean throwing away my power. ii) I believed Galzria was a very likely scum target N1. From my point of view, it was extremely likely that he was telling the truth and enabled me. In that case, he would be the natural scum target - eliminating a town PR. iii) WIFOM. Scum would probably guess that town has a way of protecting Voltgloss and not target him.
Maybe, though, he was just happy to get a mislynch and get into night. I definitely get your point, though.
One thing that struck me as odd -- maybe he did bait SK into trying to kill Galzria on N1, but how much sense does it make for a Jailkeeper to jailkeep his enabler? Basically, by jailkeeping your enabler, you're kinda canceling out your power. There's not much sense to having your power if you're just going to use it to keep it alive each night.
Now, I guess he did turn JK into Doctor, basically. But if he's doing that, why did he choose Galzria over Voltgloss to target?
Obviously it worked out great if he's town, but it's not the choice I would have made in his shoes.
weird that TA hasn't answered my popcorn question. He has been on since I posted it.
I think it's time for popcorn. I'll go first.
Want to lynch: TA, Dsell
Would lynch: bocaJ, sudgy, maybe chairs
Won't lynch: anyone else.
TA, why don't you go next.
Maybe, if we leave EFHW alive today, we should have mail-mi roleblock her tonight.This is not a bad idea. We can potentially confirm EFHW and mail-mi at the same time.
... was my first thought. But if EFHW is telling the truth and Eevee is the SK, we won't have him healed tomorrow. So no, not a good idea.
It depends on if we're more concerned about confirming EFHW and mail-mi vs. confirming Eevee. And also which we think is more likely: SK!EFHW or SK!Eevee.
At this point, I find Eevee more believable than either EFHW or mail-mi.
I think we should lynch TA, Faust, or Galz, in that order of preference.
Reasons?
TA/Faust pairing
TA/Faust pairing
What TA/Faust pairing?
weird that TA hasn't answered my popcorn question. He has been on since I posted it.
TA/Faust pairing
What TA/Faust pairing?
I believe he's flipping around your suggestion that only one of us must be town to say that one of us must also be scum. Yet he has BOTH of us as his top lynches, which is....odd, if he follows the logic that one of us must be town.
Galz, separate question: Do you see why, given all the information we've received to date, I am 95% sure that at least one of {Dsell/Twistedarcher} is town?I don't, but more due to the fact that I haven't had time to puzzle everything together.
Day 2 final vote count:
faust (2): mail-mi, Archetype
mail-mi (2): sudgy, chairs
Archetype (9): Galzria, Jorbles, Voltgloss, Twistedarcher, Walrus, Voltaire, Ahoppy, Eevee, faust
Not Voting (4): dsell, EFHW, bocaJ, Robz
Thank you.
Broken down into the same groups:
Faust (2): mail-mi
Mail-mi (2): Sudgy, Chairs
Archetype (9): Galzria, TwistedArcher, Faust
Not Voting (4): Dsell, bocaJ, Robz
Jorbles voters D2:
Faust and Galzria: Archetype
Robz: Not Voting
Sudgy: Mail-Mi
Mcmc voters D2:
Mail-Mi: Faust
Chairs: Mail-Mi
TA: Archetype
Dsell: Not Voting
bocaJ: not voting
Well. Volt, if you believe that both TA and I are town, then how likely was Archetype to be lynched ENTIRELY by non-mafia (phrased such because EFHW/Eevee were both voting there). The only player left is faust.
It's interesting just HOW spread out this same set got. Each of the four on mcmc ended D2 in different places, and the only two on Jorbles that ended the same were myself and faust.
TA is the only player of unknown alignment to LYNCH two town. Faust and myself now stand on one town lynch, and one believed town player. I tend to find it unlikely that both TA/faust are scum. One, maybe. If we guess at just one though, that leaves 3 from the remaining 6 players:
Mail-Mi, Sudgy, Chairs, Robz, bocaJ, Dsell
2 of those 6 were on Jorbles (Sudgy, Robz888)
3 of those 6 were on mcmc (mail-mi, chairs, Dsell)
1 was bocaJ
It's highly likely that 1 of (mail-mi, chairs, Dsell) are scum. If Faust/TA are both town, it's all but guaranteed. It's possible that 2 are. That depends most, I think, on bocaJ. If bocaJ is town, then it's likely that both Robz/Sudgy are scum, or 2 out of mail/chairs/Dsell is scum.
What I'm left believing is likely is as follows (TA/faust)/(Sudgy/Robz)/2x(mail/chairs/Dsell)/Shraeye
You could substitute bocaJ into the 2 of 3 set.
Volt, am I rambling, or do those breakdowns make sense?
To be clear, I'm saying that I think at least one of TA/Dsell must be town. Not "exactly one." I do think it's possible that both are town; I also think it's possible one is scum and one is town. At this point, I don't have strong reason to favor one of those possibilities over the other.
What I am sure of is that they are not both scum.
Galz, query: If mail-mi is mafia, Robz is not. Agree/disagree?
Galz, query: If mail-mi is mafia, Robz is not. Agree/disagree?
I don't see the connection. Explain? My initial thought is "why can't he be?", but maybe I missed something?
Galz, query: If mail-mi is mafia, Robz is not. Agree/disagree?
I don't see the connection. Explain? My initial thought is "why can't he be?", but maybe I missed something?
If mail-mi and Robz are scum on the same team, would Robz have done what he did Day 2 regarding the "secret case?" You of all players are best poised to answer that question.
Voltgloss, I've been thinking about this, and me getting pushed to half of L-1 could be potentially bad for town, and good for EFHW if she is in fact the Serial Killer. I would like the opportunity to claim if someone is going to push me to 4 votes.
Galz, query: If mail-mi is mafia, Robz is not. Agree/disagree?
I don't see the connection. Explain? My initial thought is "why can't he be?", but maybe I missed something?
If mail-mi and Robz are scum on the same team, would Robz have done what he did Day 2 regarding the "secret case?" You of all players are best poised to answer that question.
I think he might. I mean, it's a straight bus of a fairly heavy lurker. The post(s) by Mail-Mi could easily have been something pre-planned in a night QT. Even if everything (except his alignment) Robz has said is true, presenting the secret case really doesn't hurt him.
Don't get me wrong, I don't know that I think it's likely, but it's not something I would throw out the window as a possibility either.
What I see as vastly more likely is that Robz is 3rd party (not more likely than him being town, but far more than him being scum). I mean, I get that our best guess right now is that Eevee is Survivor, and EFHW is SK, and this would add yet a third 3rd party. But from what I know of his role, what I know of his character, and his general overall play... I dunno. I just feel this is more likely than scum.
Voltgloss, do you think there was Mafia on Archetype's lynch?
Voltgloss, I've been thinking about this, and me getting pushed to half of L-1 could be potentially bad for town, and good for EFHW if she is in fact the Serial Killer. I would like the opportunity to claim if someone is going to push me to 4 votes.
I think we should lynch TA, Faust, or Galz, in that order of preference.
Haven't read past this, but these are my top scum reads pretty much exactly. Abd this heightens my town read on TA.weird that TA hasn't answered my popcorn question. He has been on since I posted it.
I have been very clear about my reads and who I think is scum. I would like to lynch Faust, Sudgy, and maybe Dsell. I also think you are the SK but I'm unsure on whether or not I want to lynch you.
D2, though, there was still time, if the Arch lynch failed, to have a wagon built somewhere else -- for all mafia know, it could have ended up on a mafia player, putting them in a bad position. So I think there was much more incentive for mafia to be on wagon D2 than on D1.
Voltgloss, I've been thinking about this, and me getting pushed to half of L-1 could be potentially bad for town, and good for EFHW if she is in fact the Serial Killer. I would like the opportunity to claim if someone is going to push me to 4 votes.
If you want to claim at some point (for whatever reason), I won't stop you. I agree that you should not be pushed to 4 votes, and am a bit concerned about the old votes still sitting on you.
Hmm, one is Robz. Am I dreaming this, or did Robz suggest earlier this day that we vote as many people to (L-1)/2 as possible to give EFHW as many targets as possible?
Voltgloss, do you think there was Mafia on Archetype's lynch?
I think it's possible there wasn't. I won't say "likely." I'd say "possible."
With Arch, Mafia had the option to just stay off and let that ride on through (as a plurality lynch if nothing else). If they saw a bunch of non-Mafia players pile on, with the likelihood of more following, why bother to vote at all?
I do think that, if there was mafia on the Arch lynch, TA's vote is in the most suspect spot.
Haven't read past this, but these are my top scum reads pretty much exactly. Abd this heightens my town read on TA.weird that TA hasn't answered my popcorn question. He has been on since I posted it.
I have been very clear about my reads and who I think is scum. I would like to lynch Faust, Sudgy, and maybe Dsell. I also think you are the SK but I'm unsure on whether or not I want to lynch you.
And my roleblock shot, I am willing to use it on whoever you want me to use it on.
Yeah, the Faust wagon got to 6 votes. I was the 6th vote on it. It died after that, not really sure why
Yeah, the Faust wagon got to 6 votes. I was the 6th vote on it. It died after that, not really sure why
I think me raising and pushing the Arch wagon.
Based on that, of the people not voting Archetype on D2, which of them match up best to the "think he's probably town, might be willing to vote him, unsure, could be scum" attitude that I think is likely scum would've needed to take to avoid being on his wagon?
Yeah, the Faust wagon got to 6 votes. I was the 6th vote on it. It died after that, not really sure why
I think me raising and pushing the Arch wagon.
Scum points for Voltgloss.
Robz, that doesn't work because Jorbles is compulsive vig.
Based on that, of the people not voting Archetype on D2, which of them match up best to the "think he's probably town, might be willing to vote him, unsure, could be scum" attitude that I think is likely scum would've needed to take to avoid being on his wagon?
Not sure if this matches your thinking, but the non-voter who stands out most in my mind is bocaJ. Rather than vote Arch, he suggested that if an Enabled player, if one existed, should claim to corroborate Arch; and then if that Enabled player "was towny" we give Arch a pass. \
Paraphrasing here. I'll dig out bocaJ's post. I agree it's worth reading the non-voters' posts during that period (between my seriously pushing Arch as a lynch and his finally being lynched) to look for the type of behavior you've described.
Robz, your vote is on TA right now. How do you feel about TA being one vote away from EFHW targeting range?
Robz, that doesn't work because Jorbles is compulsive vig.
That's right. Then we can roleblock AND shoot Eevee if EFHW is not SK.
Robz, that doesn't work because Jorbles is compulsive vig.
That's right. Then we can roleblock AND shoot Eevee if EFHW is not SK.
What if someone like bocaJ is really the Serial Killer? Then we're in trouble. I doubt it, but it's worth considering the possibility.
Robz, that doesn't work because Jorbles is compulsive vig.
That's right. Then we can roleblock AND shoot Eevee if EFHW is not SK.
Voltgloss, what distracted from Faust's wagon was not the Archetype wagon, but the mail-mi wagon.
Robz, your vote is on TA right now. How do you feel about TA being one vote away from EFHW targeting range?
Uh, not so bad? I don't know if EFHW actually does anything harmful, and I'm voting TA for a reason.
Robz, that doesn't work because Jorbles is compulsive vig.
That's right. Then we can roleblock AND shoot Eevee if EFHW is not SK.
What if someone like bocaJ is really the Serial Killer? Then we're in trouble. I doubt it, but it's worth considering the possibility.
Yeah, the Faust wagon got to 6 votes. I was the 6th vote on it. It died after that, not really sure whyBecause he's scum.
Robz, that doesn't work because Jorbles is compulsive vig.
That's right. Then we can roleblock AND shoot Eevee if EFHW is not SK.
Except mail-mi has said his roleblock is 1-shot.
The idea I floated earlier was leaving EFHW and Eevee alive and having mail-mi roleblock EFHW. This stems from Galz's thinking that, if EFHW is the SK, we can exercise town control over who she can target and aim her at scum. But it's too late to do that today because of how many people already hit her threshold. So we roleblock her today instead.
Thoughts?
Robz, separately: What, if anything, is there to your suspicion of Eevee other than "I don't think the mods would put in a Survivor?" FWIW, and I haven't seen the show, but my reading about Eevee's flavor character on-line does comport with the idea of a Survivor who is really hard to put down (hence, Eevee's bulletproof/lynchproof).
I can definitely see the mods thinking "this character must be a Survivor" -> "Survivor is a really hard role to play though" -> "how can we buff it" -> "make it really hard to kill."
TA, I didn't vote mail-mi for their reason. I voted him for general scumminess. Their reason just pushed me into voting him (the reason, not them).
I see what's behind the Arch wagon, and also think his claim is a bit ridiculous, I can switch to him if needed.
Possible Faust-Robz scum connection, getting the wagon off his partner and into an easily-mislynched townie?Voltgloss, what distracted from Faust's wagon was not the Archetype wagon, but the mail-mi wagon.
Hmm. Interesting.
Alright, I've thought about this some more, and I think asking a player to reveal that they're enabled is a good gambit. I am explicitly asking Voltgloss to request that any enabled player claim within 24 hours.
If nobody claims, this implies that either Archetype is lying (seems somewhat likely) and is therefore scum, or the person who is not revealing is a scum, and lynching a town that enables a scum PR isn't such a bad outcome. Admittedly, there is a third possibility that a town PR could choose not to reveal, but I find it unlikely (though admitedly not impossible) that a towny would go against an explicit request of the IC.
If somebody does claim: We all focus on investigating the person who claimed. If they seem scummy, we still lynch Archetype on the theory that this is simply a scum-buddy trying to help out a friend, or a scum player that is enabled, by Archetype and wants to keep their ability. Either way, Archetype remains a good target for lynching tonight, and we have a nice target for tomorrow, or for the vig/assassin. Alternatively, if we find the player who claimed is towny, we give Archetype a pass for tonight, but at the same time, we've got two potential targets for investigation, as well as some useful information to consider for future lynching decisions.
TA, I didn't vote mail-mi for their reason. I voted him for general scumminess. Their reason just pushed me into voting him (the reason, not them).
I see what's behind the Arch wagon, and also think his claim is a bit ridiculous, I can switch to him if needed.
This is Sudgy's only comment on the Arch wagon. He was around earlier when Galz was pressuring people on it, and didn't respond whatsoever, only posting this when Arch was at about 4 or 5 votes.
Vote: Sudgy
This is bocaJ's post regarding Archetype. At the time, there were 5 votes on Arch: Galz, Jorbles, me, TA, and Walrus.Alright, I've thought about this some more, and I think asking a player to reveal that they're enabled is a good gambit. I am explicitly asking Voltgloss to request that any enabled player claim within 24 hours.
If nobody claims, this implies that either Archetype is lying (seems somewhat likely) and is therefore scum, or the person who is not revealing is a scum, and lynching a town that enables a scum PR isn't such a bad outcome. Admittedly, there is a third possibility that a town PR could choose not to reveal, but I find it unlikely (though admitedly not impossible) that a towny would go against an explicit request of the IC.
If somebody does claim: We all focus on investigating the person who claimed. If they seem scummy, we still lynch Archetype on the theory that this is simply a scum-buddy trying to help out a friend, or a scum player that is enabled, by Archetype and wants to keep their ability. Either way, Archetype remains a good target for lynching tonight, and we have a nice target for tomorrow, or for the vig/assassin. Alternatively, if we find the player who claimed is towny, we give Archetype a pass for tonight, but at the same time, we've got two potential targets for investigation, as well as some useful information to consider for future lynching decisions.
Possible Faust-Robz scum connection, getting the wagon off his partner and into an easily-mislynched townie?Voltgloss, what distracted from Faust's wagon was not the Archetype wagon, but the mail-mi wagon.
Hmm. Interesting.
TA, I didn't vote mail-mi for their reason. I voted him for general scumminess. Their reason just pushed me into voting him (the reason, not them).
I see what's behind the Arch wagon, and also think his claim is a bit ridiculous, I can switch to him if needed.
This is Sudgy's only comment on the Arch wagon. He was around earlier when Galz was pressuring people on it, and didn't respond whatsoever, only posting this when Arch was at about 4 or 5 votes.
Vote: Sudgy
The reason I didn't say anything else after it is that I didn't have a chance to, as I was reading I was thinking of voting him, but he got lynched instead.
Now, my actual reason I was going to post was to just say my stance on a few controversial issues.
First, faust is town, for the reasons others have stated (why would he hammer his enabler?)
Second, I think that chairs is scum, because of all the wacky stuff, and I still think mail-mi is scum, but nobody has been doing anything there so I haven't worried about it.
Possible Faust-Robz scum connection, getting the wagon off his partner and into an easily-mislynched townie?Voltgloss, what distracted from Faust's wagon was not the Archetype wagon, but the mail-mi wagon.
Hmm. Interesting.
Oh, shush. I completely dropped the secret case when the error of it was pointed out. And it never would have been a thing if you had avoided a horrendously anti-town move of your own. And the reason you are easily mislynched is because you are lurking and repeating 100% confident, poorly-sourced reads. Woah is you.
lol @ "Woah is you"Just thinking things through. I know it's been dropped, but it still kind of irritates me, but wutever. It's a posdibility, just something to keep in the backs of minds.
Mail-mi, we do need to allow for the possibility that the case had probably been brewing in the Robz-Galz quicktopic for awhile before it got posted, so I don't know how feasible it is that it was a "reaction" to the Faust wagon.
I get more and more suspicious of Chairs, though, it just seems like too many missteps. It seems like he's a cop without a plan as to what he's going to do as a cop, which seems...uncoplike. Definitely curious to hear the answer to #3709.
I get the blundering town argument, but as people have put it forth, he's continued to make reads and suggestions that don't really make sense, which may mean that he's simply playing to the blundering town meta as scum.
Like, if you're scum, and people are saying that you might just be blundering town, at no point do you ever want to stop acting like blundering town.
I think it's time for popcorn. I'll go first.
Want to lynch: TA, Dsell
Would lynch: bocaJ, sudgy, maybe chairs
Won't lynch: anyone else.
TA, why don't you go next.
Better yet: how about you give us your reasons for these choices.
I think it's time for popcorn. I'll go first.
Want to lynch: TA, Dsell
Would lynch: bocaJ, sudgy, maybe chairs
Won't lynch: anyone else.
TA, why don't you go next.
Better yet: how about you give us your reasons for these choices.
why?
Can someone explain to me why the symmetry argument applies to Archetype but not to Faust?
Heck, we have one more variable (knowing Archetype's alignment) available to us.
Why could we use it as an argument against Archetype, but when it's brought up against Faust, it's not longer valid? What am I missing here?
I don't know about anyone else, but I just find faust's claim - especially in light of his past gameplay - to be more compelling than the symmetry argument. I get the argument, I just think it's outweighed.
TA, reread Day 1 faust through the lens of "I am a Town Enabled Jailkeeper and I think Galz is my (Town) Enabler." Does it make narrative sense?
(FWIW, my erroneous case on Archetype didn't hinge on symmetry either. I actually thought he was fakeclaiming Enabler right up until faust claimed.)
I think the only person who used the symmetry argument against Archetype was Galzria. So many he's just reacting since he knew where it led him to before, but who knows.
What's interesting though, is that from Galzria's perspective, he knows three pieces of the puzzle. Here's what he knows, if he's town:
Galzria (town) : Shraeye(scum) :: Archetype (town) : Faust (??)
Now, if I'm Galzria, being that I'm aware of the symmetry argument and used it before, why am I not pressing for Faust as scum? I would think, being in his shoes, that there's a MUCH stronger argument for symmetry now than there was before.
Here's what he had before, and used to call Archetype scum:
Galzria (town) : Shraeye (scum) :: Archetype (??) : ?? (he assumed town here)
To me, the first one is a MUCH stronger, MUCH more clear argument for symmetry than the second. The second one could have just as easily gone Archetype (town) : ?? (scum) (?? would be Faust)
I just don't get why Galzria saw symmetry as very important before, but now thinks that it's non-existent. He's claiming that he believes it's town:scum :: town:town, which makes no sense.
The same argument would apply to Faust, I believe. If he knows himself and Arch are town:town, I would, in his shoes, suspect Galzria and Shraeye being a scum:scum pair.
I have no idea why the two of them don't see the symmetry (or whichever one of them is town). They have more information on it, and given that they both have 3/4 of the pieces of the puzzle, the fourth should easily fall into place, I would think.
At this point, I'm most inclined to believe that SK!EFHW claimed Psychiatrist hoping to get counterclaimed, so she could say "THANK GOD PLEASE CURE ME."
Would love more people's perspective on whether or not we want to lynch EFHW, the serial killer, today.
If you're town, there's just no way you want to target anyone other than Eevee tonight.
This was true last night as well. But she didn't do it.
I already talked about this - I believed Eevee's statement that he would have claimed as SK, so I didn't want to waste my efforts there. He wasn't as heavily suspected then. I still don't really want to, for the same reason, but I will now that town has a clear preference.
Ugh, I'm having a terrible IRL couple of hours. Laptop busted, on top of everything else!!!
Are there things I need to address, open questions? I see that TA took care of the claim. I am Alex Dunphy. I'm a straight-A student and I am tutoring people, which is why I can talk to them in neighbor QTs.
Galz: What should make us believe you about the symmetry? As far as I was concerned, that was one of the biggest deciding factors in wanting to lynch Archetype. Now, you're saying that there is no symmetry at all, and that the only other option is 2 scum enabled and 2 town enablers. But what if that's not what we have at all? You don't mention the possibility that you enabled shraeye and you are both scum. What you have done however is a) make a bunch of town trust you for your enabler claim D1, b) Make people believe there is symmetry in the enabler roles using appeal to emotion (that would be so brilliant and clever by the mods! (paraphrasing, I can dig up a quote if needed)) and successfully mislynch the town enabler, and c) now have nobody suspect you of orchestrating all of this from D1.
Thoughts from others?
I would be willing to lynch the SK, but if we're going to do that, I still think Eevee is a much more likely SK. The case on EFHW seems wildly speculative to me. On what grounds do we think she can only kill players who reach half of L-1? Didn't she point out that only people who had reached L-1 had died? Am I misremembering that? If she said it, why would she point that out if that was her weakness?
Robz, that doesn't work because Jorbles is compulsive vig.
That's right. Then we can roleblock AND shoot Eevee if EFHW is not SK.
Except mail-mi has said his roleblock is 1-shot.
The idea I floated earlier was leaving EFHW and Eevee alive and having mail-mi roleblock EFHW. This stems from Galz's thinking that, if EFHW is the SK, we can exercise town control over who she can target and aim her at scum. But it's too late to do that today because of how many people already hit her threshold. So we roleblock her today instead.
Thoughts?
Robz, separately: What, if anything, is there to your suspicion of Eevee other than "I don't think the mods would put in a Survivor?" FWIW, and I haven't seen the show, but my reading about Eevee's flavor character on-line does comport with the idea of a Survivor who is really hard to put down (hence, Eevee's bulletproof/lynchproof).
I can definitely see the mods thinking "this character must be a Survivor" -> "Survivor is a really hard role to play though" -> "how can we buff it" -> "make it really hard to kill."
I get more and more suspicious of Chairs, though, it just seems like too many missteps. It seems like he's a cop without a plan as to what he's going to do as a cop, which seems...uncoplike. Definitely curious to hear the answer to #3709.
I get the blundering town argument, but as people have put it forth, he's continued to make reads and suggestions that don't really make sense, which may mean that he's simply playing to the blundering town meta as scum.
Like, if you're scum, and people are saying that you might just be blundering town, at no point do you ever want to stop acting like blundering town.
At this point, I'm most inclined to believe that SK!EFHW claimed Psychiatrist hoping to get counterclaimed, so she could say "THANK GOD PLEASE CURE ME."
At this point, I'm most inclined to believe that SK!EFHW claimed Psychiatrist hoping to get counterclaimed, so she could say "THANK GOD PLEASE CURE ME."
Are you serious?! That's a huge stretch to make.
I think we should lynch TA, Faust, or Galz, in that order of preference.
chairs: neither TA nor faust are Dunphys. Whatever happened to your "I suspect Dunphys" theory? Why do you want to lynch players you can investigate?
I'll go back and find them at night (so I don't investigate a Dunphy), but it's no longer relevant in the day if Town as a whole doesn't see that as a possibility.
Voltgloss, do you recall how I caught Grujah in the last mega game that was played (Robz' M-XI)?
Voltgloss, do you recall how I caught Grujah in the last mega game that was played (Robz' M-XI)?
Not offhand, but I will go back and review.
I'll go back and find them at night (so I don't investigate a Dunphy), but it's no longer relevant in the day if Town as a whole doesn't see that as a possibility.
The claimed Dunphys are Galzria, bocaJ, you, and Robz. And shraeye (deceased mafia).
Voltgloss, do you recall how I caught Grujah in the last mega game that was played (Robz' M-XI)?
Not offhand, but I will go back and review.
I'll save you a little time:
I caught Grujah lurking (not a straight scum tell), but always managing to pop up within minutes of being called out / voted on.
Please review Sudgy. Especially egregious, his past two posts.
Ugh. On the other hand, Sudgy was a proponent of my being shot N1 by a Vig.
Volt, what are the odds that Eevee and EFHW are both exactly what they claim? That there is no SK, but instead there are actually two small scum teams, one from each show? That would cut down on the number of third party running around, and would explain why a SK hasn't come out.
I don't know, I guess I'm just trying to justify scum! wanting me shot N1. Multiball would solve that.
It kinda rubs me the wrong way that other people are calling Galz+Robz being scum a "nightmare" scenario. I called it that, but I have very specific reasons dating waaaay back for that. What's everyone else's reason for agreeing that Galz+Robz being scum is a "nightmare" scenario? Just agreeing to agree with the IC?
bocaJ is the most recent but he's not the only one to do this.
It kinda rubs me the wrong way that other people are calling Galz+Robz being scum a "nightmare" scenario. I called it that, but I have very specific reasons dating waaaay back for that. What's everyone else's reason for agreeing that Galz+Robz being scum is a "nightmare" scenario? Just agreeing to agree with the IC?
bocaJ is the most recent but he's not the only one to do this.
Can someone explain to me how Voltaire makes sense as a SK nightkill on Night 2?The SK's thinking process could be something like this:
Can someone explain to me how Voltaire makes sense as a SK nightkill on Night 2?Maybe the SK is someone who Voltaire suspected, and he thought that taking Voltaire out would help him to continue living. Or maybe the SK was someone Ahoppy didn't suspect, so he thought making Ahoppy an IC would help him.
Can someone explain to me how Voltaire makes sense as a SK nightkill on Night 2?
Can someone explain to me how Voltaire makes sense as a SK nightkill on Night 2?
To make me look bad!
why is robz still alive?
why is robz still alive?
why is robz still alive?
?
You were bad!Can someone explain to me how Voltaire makes sense as a SK nightkill on Night 2?
To make me look bad!
You were bad!Can someone explain to me how Voltaire makes sense as a SK nightkill on Night 2?
To make me look bad!
Is it?You were bad!Can someone explain to me how Voltaire makes sense as a SK nightkill on Night 2?
To make me look bad!
Confession?
Is it?You were bad!Can someone explain to me how Voltaire makes sense as a SK nightkill on Night 2?
To make me look bad!
Confession?
Would make our job a lot easier if it was!Is it?You were bad!Can someone explain to me how Voltaire makes sense as a SK nightkill on Night 2?
To make me look bad!
Confession?
You tell me?
Is it?You were bad!Can someone explain to me how Voltaire makes sense as a SK nightkill on Night 2?
To make me look bad!
Confession?
You tell me?
Volt, what are the odds that Eevee and EFHW are both exactly what they claim? That there is no SK, but instead there are actually two small scum teams, one from each show? That would cut down on the number of third party running around, and would explain why a SK hasn't come out.
I don't know, I guess I'm just trying to justify scum! wanting me shot N1. Multiball would solve that.
Did something just happen with Eevee? I can't watch the link at work.Chairs posted Usher's song "Confession." Nothing big.
Did something just happen with Eevee? I can't watch the link at work.I was trying to bait Robz into admitting to being scum. I'm not sure, but I don't think it worked.
I agree, and for reasons mentioned before, I don't think EFHW is the SK.
So I am 95% sure we are in fact dealing with one large Mafia team and one SK.
Did something just happen with Eevee? I can't watch the link at work.Chairs posted Usher's song "Confession." Nothing big.
I would say he was baiting you into admitting that you're the SK, and from appearances, it did work.Did something just happen with Eevee? I can't watch the link at work.I was trying to bait Robz into admitting to being scum. I'm not sure, but I don't think it worked.
Galz: What should make us believe you about the symmetry? As far as I was concerned, that was one of the biggest deciding factors in wanting to lynch Archetype. Now, you're saying that there is no symmetry at all, and that the only other option is 2 scum enabled and 2 town enablers. But what if that's not what we have at all? You don't mention the possibility that you enabled shraeye and you are both scum. What you have done however is a) make a bunch of town trust you for your enabler claim D1, b) Make people believe there is symmetry in the enabler roles using appeal to emotion (that would be so brilliant and clever by the mods! (paraphrasing, I can dig up a quote if needed)) and successfully mislynch the town enabler, and c) now have nobody suspect you of orchestrating all of this from D1.
Thoughts from others?
I thought that's what me and Robz were doing! Sorry for spamming. :)Did something just happen with Eevee? I can't watch the link at work.Chairs posted Usher's song "Confession." Nothing big.
Just injecting a moment of humor (hopefully) so we can take a breath and remember it's a game :)
Did something just happen with Eevee? I can't watch the link at work.Chairs posted Usher's song "Confession." Nothing big.
Just injecting a moment of humor (hopefully) so we can take a breath and remember it's a game :)
What? How?I would say he was baiting you into admitting that you're the SK, and from appearances, it did work.Did something just happen with Eevee? I can't watch the link at work.I was trying to bait Robz into admitting to being scum. I'm not sure, but I don't think it worked.
Not that you may have intended it that way, but that's what it looks like.
Galz: What should make us believe you about the symmetry? As far as I was concerned, that was one of the biggest deciding factors in wanting to lynch Archetype. Now, you're saying that there is no symmetry at all, and that the only other option is 2 scum enabled and 2 town enablers. But what if that's not what we have at all? You don't mention the possibility that you enabled shraeye and you are both scum. What you have done however is a) make a bunch of town trust you for your enabler claim D1, b) Make people believe there is symmetry in the enabler roles using appeal to emotion (that would be so brilliant and clever by the mods! (paraphrasing, I can dig up a quote if needed)) and successfully mislynch the town enabler, and c) now have nobody suspect you of orchestrating all of this from D1.
Thoughts from others?
Galz, have you addressed this post of AHoppy's?
why is robz still alive?
?
I don't know, why did you leave me alive?
Galz: What should make us believe you about the symmetry? As far as I was concerned, that was one of the biggest deciding factors in wanting to lynch Archetype. Now, you're saying that there is no symmetry at all, and that the only other option is 2 scum enabled and 2 town enablers. But what if that's not what we have at all? You don't mention the possibility that you enabled shraeye and you are both scum. What you have done however is a) make a bunch of town trust you for your enabler claim D1, b) Make people believe there is symmetry in the enabler roles using appeal to emotion (that would be so brilliant and clever by the mods! (paraphrasing, I can dig up a quote if needed)) and successfully mislynch the town enabler, and c) now have nobody suspect you of orchestrating all of this from D1.
Thoughts from others?
Galz, have you addressed this post of AHoppy's?
His argument is predicated on the idea that I enabled Shraeye.
What's to respond to?
EFHW: Also a possible mafia! Psychologist could be a fake role or a scum role. Scum want to obsolete the SK.
What? How?I would say he was baiting you into admitting that you're the SK, and from appearances, it did work.Did something just happen with Eevee? I can't watch the link at work.I was trying to bait Robz into admitting to being scum. I'm not sure, but I don't think it worked.
Not that you may have intended it that way, but that's what it looks like.
Again, I'd be damn happy if I was the SK. I even considered fakeclaiming it! Frustratingly, my condition is, as far as I can tell, uncureable.
Thanks, Robz. This is helpful. Just one immediate reaction.EFHW: Also a possible mafia! Psychologist could be a fake role or a scum role. Scum want to obsolete the SK.
Do you think it's likely for a mafia player to have a power hinging on EFHW's "can only target people with enough votes" restriction? I personally find it unlikely, because the point of that restriction is largely nullified when its player has multiple compadres to help get the required number of votes. Agree/disagree?
Thanks, Robz. This is helpful. Just one immediate reaction.I think it is an interesting twist to add onto any role--mafia or otherwise. I dont' find her townier or scummier from it. (I do think that she is less likely to be SK because of it, tho.)EFHW: Also a possible mafia! Psychologist could be a fake role or a scum role. Scum want to obsolete the SK.
Do you think it's likely for a mafia player to have a power hinging on EFHW's "can only target people with enough votes" restriction? I personally find it unlikely, because the point of that restriction is largely nullified when its player has multiple compadres to help get the required number of votes. Agree/disagree?
Thanks, Robz. This is helpful. Just one immediate reaction.EFHW: Also a possible mafia! Psychologist could be a fake role or a scum role. Scum want to obsolete the SK.
Do you think it's likely for a mafia player to have a power hinging on EFHW's "can only target people with enough votes" restriction? I personally find it unlikely, because the point of that restriction is largely nullified when its player has multiple compadres to help get the required number of votes. Agree/disagree?
Thanks, Robz. This is helpful. Just one immediate reaction.EFHW: Also a possible mafia! Psychologist could be a fake role or a scum role. Scum want to obsolete the SK.
Do you think it's likely for a mafia player to have a power hinging on EFHW's "can only target people with enough votes" restriction? I personally find it unlikely, because the point of that restriction is largely nullified when its player has multiple compadres to help get the required number of votes. Agree/disagree?
Not Robz, but I'll disagree. It's balanced out by the fact that if EFHW ever flips, and is mafia, we can look directly at who was getting wagons to the required number of votes for weak reasons.
Bocaj: A total unknown. Probably more likely mafia than SK, because of the coaching thing. Increasingly he is a headache for the town.
Thanks, Robz. This is helpful. Just one immediate reaction.EFHW: Also a possible mafia! Psychologist could be a fake role or a scum role. Scum want to obsolete the SK.
Do you think it's likely for a mafia player to have a power hinging on EFHW's "can only target people with enough votes" restriction? I personally find it unlikely, because the point of that restriction is largely nullified when its player has multiple compadres to help get the required number of votes. Agree/disagree?
Ultimately I think it's just too speculative for me to even guess at. The votes restriction makes more immediate sense to me as a mafia thing than an SK thing, for precisely that reason: Mafia EFHW has help getting around it, whereas its a gimp for SK EFHW, and why does the SK need a gimp? Well if it's a super powered shot--maybe ninja and strongman shot--perhaps its a constructive limit for an SK. But EFHW is our only source on its existence anyway. So it comes out being too speculative to even try to say what's more likely or not regarding that, unfortunately.
What? How?I would say he was baiting you into admitting that you're the SK, and from appearances, it did work.Did something just happen with Eevee? I can't watch the link at work.I was trying to bait Robz into admitting to being scum. I'm not sure, but I don't think it worked.
Not that you may have intended it that way, but that's what it looks like.
Again, I'd be damn happy if I was the SK. I even considered fakeclaiming it! Frustratingly, my condition is, as far as I can tell, uncureable.
Wait wait wait, whaaaaat?
You considered fakeclaiming SK? If you really are survivor, that makes absolutely zero sense. That runs completely contrary to your win condition.
Why would a survivor ever want to fakeclaim SK?? You don't get cured, and then everyone knows you're just the survivor, and we're back at square 1 right?
I'm increasingly wondering if Eevee's pronouncing EFHW as towny is a signal to her that "hey, you're right, I know you're town, now please cure me tonight!"
I agree that Galz (and Faust as well) are off the table as SK, due to their enabler/enabled link. Probably Sudgy as well.
Thanks, Robz. This is helpful. Just one immediate reaction.I think it is an interesting twist to add onto any role--mafia or otherwise. I dont' find her townier or scummier from it. (I do think that she is less likely to be SK because of it, tho.)EFHW: Also a possible mafia! Psychologist could be a fake role or a scum role. Scum want to obsolete the SK.
Do you think it's likely for a mafia player to have a power hinging on EFHW's "can only target people with enough votes" restriction? I personally find it unlikely, because the point of that restriction is largely nullified when its player has multiple compadres to help get the required number of votes. Agree/disagree?
It's a shitty situation, because we have absolutely no way to either verify or disprove his claim, but for people who find him scummy, there will need to be traditional scumhunting, not just PoEing him, since due to his unique claim, I don't think PoE really applies here.
Galz: What should make us believe you about the symmetry? As far as I was concerned, that was one of the biggest deciding factors in wanting to lynch Archetype. Now, you're saying that there is no symmetry at all, and that the only other option is 2 scum enabled and 2 town enablers. But what if that's not what we have at all? You don't mention the possibility that you enabled shraeye and you are both scum. What you have done however is a) make a bunch of town trust you for your enabler claim D1, b) Make people believe there is symmetry in the enabler roles using appeal to emotion (that would be so brilliant and clever by the mods! (paraphrasing, I can dig up a quote if needed)) and successfully mislynch the town enabler, and c) now have nobody suspect you of orchestrating all of this from D1.
Thoughts from others?
Galz, have you addressed this post of AHoppy's?
His argument is predicated on the idea that I enabled Shraeye.
What's to respond to?
But aren't we reasonably certain that you enabled Shraeye?
I agree that Galz (and Faust as well) are off the table as SK, due to their enabler/enabled link. Probably Sudgy as well.
Which makes it doubly bizarre that EFHW claims to have targeted faust last night.
Incidentally, there is one development that specifically makes bocaJ's claim less likely in my eyes: the revelations that we appear to have a Vig and an SK. With a Vig, an SK, mafia, and a PGO in the mix, we could have had an astronomical death toll on Night 1. That strikes me as unlikely for balance purposes.
It's not a HUGE strike against bocaJ, but it's still a strike.
Incidentally, there is one development that specifically makes bocaJ's claim less likely in my eyes: the revelations that we appear to have a Vig and an SK. With a Vig, an SK, mafia, and a PGO in the mix, we could have had an astronomical death toll on Night 1. That strikes me as unlikely for balance purposes.
It's not a HUGE strike against bocaJ, but it's still a strike.
Well, the mods DID indicate this might go quicker than we expect...
I don't think EFHW is SK.Thanks, Robz. This is helpful. Just one immediate reaction.I think it is an interesting twist to add onto any role--mafia or otherwise. I dont' find her townier or scummier from it. (I do think that she is less likely to be SK because of it, tho.)EFHW: Also a possible mafia! Psychologist could be a fake role or a scum role. Scum want to obsolete the SK.
Do you think it's likely for a mafia player to have a power hinging on EFHW's "can only target people with enough votes" restriction? I personally find it unlikely, because the point of that restriction is largely nullified when its player has multiple compadres to help get the required number of votes. Agree/disagree?
Man, has mail-mi posted ANYTHING in this game isn't a repeat of something that somebody else already posted?
Like, I know it's mail-mi, but C'MON.
It's a shitty situation, because we have absolutely no way to either verify or disprove his claim, but for people who find him scummy, there will need to be traditional scumhunting, not just PoEing him, since due to his unique claim, I don't think PoE really applies here.
Not sure I follow you, TA. PoE absolutely applies to bocaJ. If we're striking other players off the "possible scum list," and that list is getting narrowed down to a select few that includes bocaJ, then yes, bocaJ is going to become a more likely scum candidate.
I considered it after EFHW had claimed he can cure serial killers, but not very seriously. I guess "ran through the option in my head after I found myself wishing I actually was a SK for the 15th time" would be more accurate.What? How?I would say he was baiting you into admitting that you're the SK, and from appearances, it did work.Did something just happen with Eevee? I can't watch the link at work.I was trying to bait Robz into admitting to being scum. I'm not sure, but I don't think it worked.
Not that you may have intended it that way, but that's what it looks like.
Again, I'd be damn happy if I was the SK. I even considered fakeclaiming it! Frustratingly, my condition is, as far as I can tell, uncureable.
Wait wait wait, whaaaaat?
You considered fakeclaiming SK? If you really are survivor, that makes absolutely zero sense. That runs completely contrary to your win condition.
Why would a survivor ever want to fakeclaim SK?? You don't get cured, and then everyone knows you're just the survivor, and we're back at square 1 right?
I'm increasingly wondering if Eevee's pronouncing EFHW as towny is a signal to her that "hey, you're right, I know you're town, now please cure me tonight!"
It's a shitty situation, because we have absolutely no way to either verify or disprove his claim, but for people who find him scummy, there will need to be traditional scumhunting, not just PoEing him, since due to his unique claim, I don't think PoE really applies here.
Not sure I follow you, TA. PoE absolutely applies to bocaJ. If we're striking other players off the "possible scum list," and that list is getting narrowed down to a select few that includes bocaJ, then yes, bocaJ is going to become a more likely scum candidate.
What I am saying is that personally, since I believed him D1, I absolutely have no reason to not believe him D3. Him being alive is exactly what I'd expect. So I find it interesting that several people who believed him D1 are now more doubtful of his claim D3, as the pool of people narrows. This is interesting because if you believed him D1, you would absolutely still expect him to be alive D3, and so him being alive isn't as fishy as someone else being alive, since he's not a viable NK target if he's town.
Do you get what I'm saying?
Yeah, I get what you're saying. Personally what I'm looking at though is scum who didn't need him as a viable mislynch D1, cause the pool was so large, but now need to get more viable mislynches so are starting to undermine his claim.
Incidentally, there is one development that specifically makes bocaJ's claim less likely in my eyes: the revelations that we appear to have a Vig and an SK. With a Vig, an SK, mafia, and a PGO in the mix, we could have had an astronomical death toll on Night 1. That strikes me as unlikely for balance purposes.
It's not a HUGE strike against bocaJ, but it's still a strike.
Yeah, I get what you're saying. Personally what I'm looking at though is scum who didn't need him as a viable mislynch D1, cause the pool was so large, but now need to get more viable mislynches so are starting to undermine his claim.
That's such a generic claim. Who are the "scum starting to undermine his claim" that you're referring to? Voltgloss? He's the only one that's been heavily questioning it...
Something that I thought of in regards to Eevee's lynchproof claimed that I don't think has been discussed at all:
We know Mcmc was a day lynchproofer. Presumably he chooses one other player who can't get lynched. Now, we have no idea whether it's for just that day, or it lasts until the person gets lynched. I'd presume the former, but is there an outside chance that Mcmc lynchproofed Eevee (randomly) D1 and that's where his lynchproof is coming from?
We probably won't be able to get anything from this since Mcmc never claimed the details of his role, but I just thought of this and thought it's worth bringing up.
It's a shitty situation, because we have absolutely no way to either verify or disprove his claim, but for people who find him scummy, there will need to be traditional scumhunting, not just PoEing him, since due to his unique claim, I don't think PoE really applies here.
Not sure I follow you, TA. PoE absolutely applies to bocaJ. If we're striking other players off the "possible scum list," and that list is getting narrowed down to a select few that includes bocaJ, then yes, bocaJ is going to become a more likely scum candidate.
What I am saying is that personally, since I believed him D1, I absolutely have no reason to not believe him D3. Him being alive is exactly what I'd expect. So I find it interesting that several people who believed him D1 are now more doubtful of his claim D3, as the pool of people narrows. This is interesting because if you believed him D1, you would absolutely still expect him to be alive D3, and so him being alive isn't as fishy as someone else being alive, since he's not a viable NK target if he's town.
Do you get what I'm saying?
Yeah, I get what you're saying. Personally what I'm looking at though is scum who didn't need him as a viable mislynch D1, cause the pool was so large, but now need to get more viable mislynches so are starting to undermine his claim.
Something that I thought of in regards to Eevee's lynchproof claimed that I don't think has been discussed at all:
We know Mcmc was a day lynchproofer. Presumably he chooses one other player who can't get lynched. Now, we have no idea whether it's for just that day, or it lasts until the person gets lynched. I'd presume the former, but is there an outside chance that Mcmc lynchproofed Eevee (randomly) D1 and that's where his lynchproof is coming from?
We probably won't be able to get anything from this since Mcmc never claimed the details of his role, but I just thought of this and thought it's worth bringing up.
I thought about that as well, but not only do I believe that the former application is most likely accurate, I also doubt that his target would be notified.
It's a shitty situation, because we have absolutely no way to either verify or disprove his claim, but for people who find him scummy, there will need to be traditional scumhunting, not just PoEing him, since due to his unique claim, I don't think PoE really applies here.
Not sure I follow you, TA. PoE absolutely applies to bocaJ. If we're striking other players off the "possible scum list," and that list is getting narrowed down to a select few that includes bocaJ, then yes, bocaJ is going to become a more likely scum candidate.
What I am saying is that personally, since I believed him D1, I absolutely have no reason to not believe him D3. Him being alive is exactly what I'd expect. So I find it interesting that several people who believed him D1 are now more doubtful of his claim D3, as the pool of people narrows. This is interesting because if you believed him D1, you would absolutely still expect him to be alive D3, and so him being alive isn't as fishy as someone else being alive, since he's not a viable NK target if he's town.
Do you get what I'm saying?
But you're assuming people believed him D1, I don't know about liopoil, but I personally just reserved judgement to see how things developed, his voting record doesn't make him look towny so he's still in the pool of good lynch candidates, a pool which is getting smaller.
Yeah, I get what you're saying. Personally what I'm looking at though is scum who didn't need him as a viable mislynch D1, cause the pool was so large, but now need to get more viable mislynches so are starting to undermine his claim.
That's such a generic claim. Who are the "scum starting to undermine his claim" that you're referring to? Voltgloss? He's the only one that's been heavily questioning it...
I agree that Galz (and Faust as well) are off the table as SK, due to their enabler/enabled link. Probably Sudgy as well.
Which makes it doubly bizarre that EFHW claims to have targeted faust last night.
I agree that Galz (and Faust as well) are off the table as SK, due to their enabler/enabled link. Probably Sudgy as well.
Which makes it doubly bizarre that EFHW claims to have targeted faust last night.
Oh. Yeah. Hm. I didn't consider that. Well, this doesn't add up at all. Did Faust claim enabled yesterday though?
Thanks, Robz. This is helpful. Just one immediate reaction.EFHW: Also a possible mafia! Psychologist could be a fake role or a scum role. Scum want to obsolete the SK.
Do you think it's likely for a mafia player to have a power hinging on EFHW's "can only target people with enough votes" restriction? I personally find it unlikely, because the point of that restriction is largely nullified when its player has multiple compadres to help get the required number of votes. Agree/disagree?
Ultimately I think it's just too speculative for me to even guess at. The votes restriction makes more immediate sense to me as a mafia thing than an SK thing, for precisely that reason: Mafia EFHW has help getting around it, whereas its a gimp for SK EFHW, and why does the SK need a gimp? Well if it's a super powered shot--maybe ninja and strongman shot--perhaps its a constructive limit for an SK. But EFHW is our only source on its existence anyway. So it comes out being too speculative to even try to say what's more likely or not regarding that, unfortunately.
I hear you. The only comment I add is that I think we can take EFHW's restriction as legit, for the reasons I explained during Day 2. If you need me to link the post in question where I go through that, let me know. (It's not so relevant to today's discussion that I want to clog the thread with reposting it.)
I agree that Galz (and Faust as well) are off the table as SK, due to their enabler/enabled link. Probably Sudgy as well.
Which makes it doubly bizarre that EFHW claims to have targeted faust last night.
Oh. Yeah. Hm. I didn't consider that. Well, this doesn't add up at all. Did Faust claim enabled yesterday though?
It's a shitty situation, because we have absolutely no way to either verify or disprove his claim, but for people who find him scummy, there will need to be traditional scumhunting, not just PoEing him, since due to his unique claim, I don't think PoE really applies here.
Not sure I follow you, TA. PoE absolutely applies to bocaJ. If we're striking other players off the "possible scum list," and that list is getting narrowed down to a select few that includes bocaJ, then yes, bocaJ is going to become a more likely scum candidate.
What I am saying is that personally, since I believed him D1, I absolutely have no reason to not believe him D3. Him being alive is exactly what I'd expect. So I find it interesting that several people who believed him D1 are now more doubtful of his claim D3, as the pool of people narrows. This is interesting because if you believed him D1, you would absolutely still expect him to be alive D3, and so him being alive isn't as fishy as someone else being alive, since he's not a viable NK target if he's town.
Do you get what I'm saying?
But you're assuming people believed him D1, I don't know about liopoil, but I personally just reserved judgement to see how things developed, his voting record doesn't make him look towny so he's still in the pool of good lynch candidates, a pool which is getting smaller.
I don't remember a single person doubting his claim D1.
I agree that Galz (and Faust as well) are off the table as SK, due to their enabler/enabled link. Probably Sudgy as well.
Which makes it doubly bizarre that EFHW claims to have targeted faust last night.
Oh. Yeah. Hm. I didn't consider that. Well, this doesn't add up at all. Did Faust claim enabled yesterday though?
Right before (as) he hammered his Enabler.
I agree that Galz (and Faust as well) are off the table as SK, due to their enabler/enabled link. Probably Sudgy as well.
Which makes it doubly bizarre that EFHW claims to have targeted faust last night.
Oh. Yeah. Hm. I didn't consider that. Well, this doesn't add up at all. Did Faust claim enabled yesterday though?
Right before (as) he hammered his Enabler.
So there wasn't time to judge whether EFHW believed he was enabler. Obviously if she didn't believe it, she might still try to cure him.
Robz, I've explained why I have found Faust scummy several times. Do I need to drag it up once again? There's no votes there so it may not be that useful right now, but if you are really unsure of why he's scummy, I will pull it up for you yet again.
Man, why does a town!Jailkeeper hammer away his own power? Wouldn't he at least make a case for why he's still valuable as a PR? Or that we should at least consider keeping him and using him? Heck, at the very least if he really thought Archetype was scum, he could've argued to leave him alive and then Jailed him every night. :-/
I agree that Galz (and Faust as well) are off the table as SK, due to their enabler/enabled link. Probably Sudgy as well.
Which makes it doubly bizarre that EFHW claims to have targeted faust last night.
Oh. Yeah. Hm. I didn't consider that. Well, this doesn't add up at all. Did Faust claim enabled yesterday though?
Right before (as) he hammered his Enabler.
So there wasn't time to judge whether EFHW believed he was enabler. Obviously if she didn't believe it, she might still try to cure him.
Well, if she didn't believe him, then she would conclude that he's mafia, not SK, right? And then target someone else?
I agree that Galz (and Faust as well) are off the table as SK, due to their enabler/enabled link. Probably Sudgy as well.
Which makes it doubly bizarre that EFHW claims to have targeted faust last night.
Oh. Yeah. Hm. I didn't consider that. Well, this doesn't add up at all. Did Faust claim enabled yesterday though?
Right before (as) he hammered his Enabler.
So there wasn't time to judge whether EFHW believed he was enabler. Obviously if she didn't believe it, she might still try to cure him.
Well, if she didn't believe him, then she would conclude that he's mafia, not SK, right? And then target someone else?
Man, why does a town!Jailkeeper hammer away his own power? Wouldn't he at least make a case for why he's still valuable as a PR? Or that we should at least consider keeping him and using him? Heck, at the very least if he really thought Archetype was scum, he could've argued to leave him alive and then Jailed him every night. :-/
Because he's not a town jailkeeper, he's scum
This.Man, why does a town!Jailkeeper hammer away his own power? Wouldn't he at least make a case for why he's still valuable as a PR? Or that we should at least consider keeping him and using him? Heck, at the very least if he really thought Archetype was scum, he could've argued to leave him alive and then Jailed him every night. :-/
Because he's not a town jailkeeper, he's scum
And even with ALL of that said about EFHW, if she's actually a SK (and not mafia), then I still think we absolutely should abuse her restriction instead of lynching her. She's basically forced into being a Vig if we're careful with our votes (well, I guess she could choose not to shoot).No one else finds it unlikely that a serial killer would want to fakeclaim a role that "proves" there is a serial killer in the game? What's the case on EFHW being a serial killer anyways?
And even with ALL of that said about EFHW, if she's actually a SK (and not mafia), then I still think we absolutely should abuse her restriction instead of lynching her. She's basically forced into being a Vig if we're careful with our votes (well, I guess she could choose not to shoot).
And even with ALL of that said about EFHW, if she's actually a SK (and not mafia), then I still think we absolutely should abuse her restriction instead of lynching her. She's basically forced into being a Vig if we're careful with our votes (well, I guess she could choose not to shoot).No one else finds it unlikely that a serial killer would want to fakeclaim a role that "proves" there is a serial killer in the game? What's the case on EFHW being a serial killer anyways?
And even with ALL of that said about EFHW, if she's actually a SK (and not mafia), then I still think we absolutely should abuse her restriction instead of lynching her. She's basically forced into being a Vig if we're careful with our votes (well, I guess she could choose not to shoot).No one else finds it unlikely that a serial killer would want to fakeclaim a role that "proves" there is a serial killer in the game? What's the case on EFHW being a serial killer anyways?
It's a shitty situation, because we have absolutely no way to either verify or disprove his claim, but for people who find him scummy, there will need to be traditional scumhunting, not just PoEing him, since due to his unique claim, I don't think PoE really applies here.
Not sure I follow you, TA. PoE absolutely applies to bocaJ. If we're striking other players off the "possible scum list," and that list is getting narrowed down to a select few that includes bocaJ, then yes, bocaJ is going to become a more likely scum candidate.
What I am saying is that personally, since I believed him D1, I absolutely have no reason to not believe him D3. Him being alive is exactly what I'd expect. So I find it interesting that several people who believed him D1 are now more doubtful of his claim D3, as the pool of people narrows. This is interesting because if you believed him D1, you would absolutely still expect him to be alive D3, and so him being alive isn't as fishy as someone else being alive, since he's not a viable NK target if he's town.
Do you get what I'm saying?
But you're assuming people believed him D1, I don't know about liopoil, but I personally just reserved judgement to see how things developed, his voting record doesn't make him look towny so he's still in the pool of good lynch candidates, a pool which is getting smaller.
I don't remember a single person doubting his claim D1.
That's weird, I agree. But so are chairs's choices, which I now realize is a bad example as he may very well be scum, but you know, town makes mistakes. Very interested in her explanation!
I oppose her getting lynched or roleblocked because her targeting me seems to be the only way I can not get lynched.
PPE: 3 and I don't have time to read them yet, got a house guest.
That's weird, I agree. But so are chairs's choices, which I now realize is a bad example as he may very well be scum, but you know, town makes mistakes. Very interested in her explanation!
Man, why does a town!Jailkeeper hammer away his own power? Wouldn't he at least make a case for why he's still valuable as a PR? Or that we should at least consider keeping him and using him? Heck, at the very least if he really thought Archetype was scum, he could've argued to leave him alive and then Jailed him every night. :-/The basic thought was: taking out scum is worth losing a PR. And I was quite sure that Archetype was scum at the time. I didn't think my role was all that strong; most players here seem to have a PR, so I don't want to protect them anyway.
Well, I sitll really find it hard to believe that he looked at a Modern Family wiki and didn't get that there were more charatcers than just Dunphys.
Well, I sitll really find it hard to believe that he looked at a Modern Family wiki and didn't get that there were more charatcers than just Dunphys.
Yeah, I agree. But, well, if he were scum, would he try to pass that off as his excuse? It's the drunk!Grujah problem.
...I have an idea about EFHW.If we do this, we might know whether EFHW is SK or not at the start of D5. Do we want to keep a potential SK around that long?
Tomorrow, we bring nobody up to (L-1)/2. We then see how many kills there are. Jorbles could say if he killed or not, and we might know if EFHW is SK or not.
Man, why does a town!Jailkeeper hammer away his own power? Wouldn't he at least make a case for why he's still valuable as a PR? Or that we should at least consider keeping him and using him? Heck, at the very least if he really thought Archetype was scum, he could've argued to leave him alive and then Jailed him every night. :-/The basic thought was: taking out scum is worth losing a PR. And I was quite sure that Archetype was scum at the time. I didn't think my role was all that strong; most players here seem to have a PR, so I don't want to protect them anyway.
And considering the plan of jailkeeping Archetype every night: why would I want to do that? I thought Arch was scum. By jailkeeping him, I narrow down the kill pool for the other scum faction by 1, so this makes it more likely that the second scum faction hits town (especially if I announce it).
I also got some heavy suspicion D2. Me fullclaiming and arguing to keep Arch alive would have most likely led to people believing that Arch and me are scum partners.
"second scum team" can also be the SK, and we were pretty sure there was one at the end of D2. And me preventing the factional kill was only going to happen if I didn't claim (if I claim, mafia would just choose another one of them to do the kill) or if Arch was the last of his team. So all of this only would have worked if I would have said "look, I'm a PR, I don't want Arch dead, but I can't tell you why". Which, again, would have looked like I am scum with Arch, and one of us would have ended up dead anyway.Man, why does a town!Jailkeeper hammer away his own power? Wouldn't he at least make a case for why he's still valuable as a PR? Or that we should at least consider keeping him and using him? Heck, at the very least if he really thought Archetype was scum, he could've argued to leave him alive and then Jailed him every night. :-/The basic thought was: taking out scum is worth losing a PR. And I was quite sure that Archetype was scum at the time. I didn't think my role was all that strong; most players here seem to have a PR, so I don't want to protect them anyway.
And considering the plan of jailkeeping Archetype every night: why would I want to do that? I thought Arch was scum. By jailkeeping him, I narrow down the kill pool for the other scum faction by 1, so this makes it more likely that the second scum faction hits town (especially if I announce it).
I also got some heavy suspicion D2. Me fullclaiming and arguing to keep Arch alive would have most likely led to people believing that Arch and me are scum partners.
Please explain the bolded section in more detail.
As far as we know, there's only one scum team. Further, if you jailkeep Archetype every night, and he's scum trying to perform his factional kill, it fails, saving us a death. Your line of thinking here doesn't seem to make sense from a town perspective.
"second scum team" can also be the SK, and we were pretty sure there was one at the end of D2. And me preventing the factional kill was only going to happen if I didn't claim (if I claim, mafia would just choose another one of them to do the kill) or if Arch was the last of his team. So all of this only would have worked if I would have said "look, I'm a PR, I don't want Arch dead, but I can't tell you why". Which, again, would have looked like I am scum with Arch, and one of us would have ended up dead anyway.Man, why does a town!Jailkeeper hammer away his own power? Wouldn't he at least make a case for why he's still valuable as a PR? Or that we should at least consider keeping him and using him? Heck, at the very least if he really thought Archetype was scum, he could've argued to leave him alive and then Jailed him every night. :-/The basic thought was: taking out scum is worth losing a PR. And I was quite sure that Archetype was scum at the time. I didn't think my role was all that strong; most players here seem to have a PR, so I don't want to protect them anyway.
And considering the plan of jailkeeping Archetype every night: why would I want to do that? I thought Arch was scum. By jailkeeping him, I narrow down the kill pool for the other scum faction by 1, so this makes it more likely that the second scum faction hits town (especially if I announce it).
I also got some heavy suspicion D2. Me fullclaiming and arguing to keep Arch alive would have most likely led to people believing that Arch and me are scum partners.
Please explain the bolded section in more detail.
As far as we know, there's only one scum team. Further, if you jailkeep Archetype every night, and he's scum trying to perform his factional kill, it fails, saving us a death. Your line of thinking here doesn't seem to make sense from a town perspective.
Why couldn't you just claim Jailkeeper, but not indicate who you intended to jail on N2? I mean, Voltgloss would still have been a logical choice. Heck, you could've even claimed that you would be targeting Voltgloss, and then targeted Archetype instead.But if I claimed Jailkeeper, either I would have been mislynched or scum would have killed me as soon as they started to think that it's time to kill Voltgloss. So what I effectively would have done is this: I would have bought Voltgloss another night at the price of keeping one (believed) scum around. And sum can happily slaughter all our investigative roles.
Why couldn't you just claim Jailkeeper, but not indicate who you intended to jail on N2? I mean, Voltgloss would still have been a logical choice. Heck, you could've even claimed that you would be targeting Voltgloss, and then targeted Archetype instead.But if I claimed Jailkeeper, either I would have been mislynched or scum would have killed me as soon as they started to think that it's time to kill Voltgloss. So what I effectively would have done is this: I would have bought Voltgloss another night at the price of keeping one (believed) scum around. And sum can happily slaughter all our investigative roles.
I admit I didn't think this through all that clearly yesterday, but I still believe lynching Archetype was the best option then.
But my enabler would one more scum dead (well, turns out that didn't work out). And scum didn't know what power town lost tonight. And there's a small chance that Galz enables me.Why couldn't you just claim Jailkeeper, but not indicate who you intended to jail on N2? I mean, Voltgloss would still have been a logical choice. Heck, you could've even claimed that you would be targeting Voltgloss, and then targeted Archetype instead.But if I claimed Jailkeeper, either I would have been mislynched or scum would have killed me as soon as they started to think that it's time to kill Voltgloss. So what I effectively would have done is this: I would have bought Voltgloss another night at the price of keeping one (believed) scum around. And sum can happily slaughter all our investigative roles.
I admit I didn't think this through all that clearly yesterday, but I still believe lynching Archetype was the best option then.
but... but... aren't you doing the exact same thing by lynching your enabler? Except that now scum don't need to waste a NK on you, because you're already stripped of your power. :-/
Voltgloss, what was the difference between Gunsmith, and Walrus's "modified Gunsmith" role? I've constantly struggled with Sudgy's claimed role not matching with how the wiki suggests it should work. If the mods had, well, modified it (har har), wouldn't his role be "modified captained doctor"?
I agree that Galz (and Faust as well) are off the table as SK, due to their enabler/enabled link. Probably Sudgy as well.
Which makes it doubly bizarre that EFHW claims to have targeted faust last night.
That's.... a really good point.
Not to mention her complete lack of willingness to participate right now. Her "Why" response to you after you asked her to elaborate on her reads, combined with her just randomly popping in to say "Why isn't Robz dead yet" with nothing else.... I'm very underwhelmed by her play right now.
If I was scum, I would have wanted to shoot Robz after that whole secret episode. That's why I asked. They may have been deterred by WIFOM, I guess.
If I was scum, I would have wanted to shoot Robz after that whole secret episode. That's why I asked. They may have been deterred by WIFOM, I guess.
Why would scum have wanted to shoot me over that?
If I was scum, I would have wanted to shoot Robz after that whole secret episode. That's why I asked. They may have been deterred by WIFOM, I guess.
Why would scum have wanted to shoot me over that?
I don't know how to answer that.
If I was scum, I would have wanted to shoot Robz after that whole secret episode. That's why I asked. They may have been deterred by WIFOM, I guess.
Why would scum have wanted to shoot me over that?
I don't know how to answer that.
But you said it. So you do.
If I was scum, I would have wanted to shoot Robz after that whole secret episode. That's why I asked. They may have been deterred by WIFOM, I guess.
Why would scum have wanted to shoot me over that?
I don't know how to answer that.
But you said it. So you do.
If I was scum, I would have wanted to shoot Robz after that whole secret episode. That's why I asked. They may have been deterred by WIFOM, I guess.
Why would scum have wanted to shoot me over that?
I don't know how to answer that.
But you said it. So you do.
Robz: QT.
Who has been pushing the EFHW is a SK idea and what are the reasons for that?
I am very displeased here. I have done nothing scummy except be away from my computer during a couple marathon post sessions. Is there ANYTHING else ANYONE can point to besides the timing of my increasing my posts?
I also agree with this being a scum tell.I am very displeased here. I have done nothing scummy except be away from my computer during a couple marathon post sessions. Is there ANYTHING else ANYONE can point to besides the timing of my increasing my posts?
This post of EFHW's, in the midst of the late Day 1 scramble that I started to get town off lynching either mcmc or liopoil/Jorbles, was what originally raised my suspicions. Note her being upset about "hav[ing] done nothing scummy" and asking "ANYONE" to point to "ANYTHING" that is a reason to vote her other than "the timing of [her] increasing [her] posts."
The tone of the post reminds me of sparky8586 in Major Arcana Mafia I, who was mafia and was lynched Day 2, and made a post shortly before his lynch effectively complaining that he was lynched for the wrong reasons. I.e., he was annoyed that, in his view, he hadn't "done anything" for which he deserved to be lynched, and no one was pointing out any such good reasons for his lynched - yet he was being lynched anyway. And he did, and he was scum.
Ok, there's a lot going on. I find Walrus's claim believable, and I hope it's not just b/c having Voltaire cleared makes everything simpler. Since it was N1, and kills are resolved last, then the psychologist receiving a negative result would mean the target was indeed not capable of killing.
I can't remember why Robz was supposed to be investigated. Does anyone else?
I'm completely null on Eevee's claim. It doesn't help us at all, it only helps him. So vote staying put at this point.
For some reason I can't find psychologist in the wiki, only psychiatrist, which is something else entirely. I'm pretty sure it used to be there....
A short search on google shows that there are 12 major characters in modern family and 9 in community. A total of 21.
It seems pretty obvious to me that these are the 21 roles in the game.
xeiron, could you please list the names of those 21 characters? (Or anybody - doesn't have to be xeiron)
Modern Family:
Gloria Pritchett
Jay Pritchett
Fulgencio Joseph "Joe" Pritchett
Mitchell Pritchett
Lily Tucker-Pritchett
Cameron Tucker
Manny Delgado
Claire Dunphy
Phil Dunphy
Haley Dunphy
Alex Dunphy
Luke Dunphy
Community:
Jeff Winger
Britta Perry
Abed Nadir
Shirley Bennett
Annie Edison
Troy Barnes
Pierce Hawthorne
"Seńor" Ben Chang
Dean Craig Pelton
volunteering that their names were not on the list seems towny - scum would be afraid of making a "slip" ;)
Not sure which I prefer from sudgy and bocaj (frankly, I suspect Dsell and Robz and mail-mi more than either). They are not terrible lynch choices though.
Now that I see it, I think this is a good case. Vote: EFHWDid you notice how the author of the case doesn't want to lynch EFHW today?
This is some strong evidence.
So I wonder whether we should lynch EFHW today. Say she is the SK. I'll do a worst-case scenario:
14 of us are alive, likely 4 of which are mafia. We leave EFHW alive and mislynch. EFHW targets me (or town!sudgy), mafia kills a townie, Jorbles kills a townie.
Then 11 of us are alive D4. We lynch EFHW. Mafia kills a townie. (I don't think Jorbles is actually 4-shot, so I'm excluding him here.)
9 of us are alive D5, 4 of which are mafia and 1 is a Survivor. With clever play (and Eevee's support), the mafia wins.
This is not good. In order to win, we should probably lynch third-party (EFHW or Eevee) today, or Jorbles should shoot third-party.
See the "likely"? I don't think there were 6 mafia to begin with, seems too much. 4 mafia total might be, but well, it's worst-case scenario, right?This is some strong evidence.
So I wonder whether we should lynch EFHW today. Say she is the SK. I'll do a worst-case scenario:
14 of us are alive, likely 4 of which are mafia. We leave EFHW alive and mislynch. EFHW targets me (or town!sudgy), mafia kills a townie, Jorbles kills a townie.
Then 11 of us are alive D4. We lynch EFHW. Mafia kills a townie. (I don't think Jorbles is actually 4-shot, so I'm excluding him here.)
9 of us are alive D5, 4 of which are mafia and 1 is a Survivor. With clever play (and Eevee's support), the mafia wins.
This is not good. In order to win, we should probably lynch third-party (EFHW or Eevee) today, or Jorbles should shoot third-party.
How do you know exactly how many mafia there are?
This is some strong evidence.
So I wonder whether we should lynch EFHW today. Say she is the SK. I'll do a worst-case scenario:
14 of us are alive, likely 4 of which are mafia. We leave EFHW alive and mislynch. EFHW targets me (or town!sudgy), mafia kills a townie, Jorbles kills a townie.
Then 11 of us are alive D4. We lynch EFHW. Mafia kills a townie. (I don't think Jorbles is actually 4-shot, so I'm excluding him here.)
9 of us are alive D5, 4 of which are mafia and 1 is a Survivor. With clever play (and Eevee's support), the mafia wins.
This is not good. In order to win, we should probably lynch third-party (EFHW or Eevee) today, or Jorbles should shoot third-party.
How do you know exactly how many mafia there are?
Along with the already-discussed facts that:
- all nightkills except Walrus meet EFHW's targeting restriction;
- the SK's kill on Night 1 was apparently blocked, and the most logical explanation is that (i) EFHW is the SK, (ii) EFHW targeted Galz because Galz met her targeting restriction and killing a claimed Enabler could potentially hurt both scum AND town, and (iii) faust claims to have Jailkept Galz - thus stopping EFHW's nightkill; and
- the SK's choice of Voltaire to kill on Night 2. Killing Voltaire risked creating another IC out of AHoppy. He thus seems a fairly suboptimal kill, especially when - as EFHW herself has said - and SK would most likely want to kill Robz or Galz instead. But if EFHW is the SK, her options were limited - to Voltaire, faust, mail-mi, or Eevee. Eevee is the logical SK suspect and so she leaves him alone (AND doesn't "cure" him, so he can stay suspected). faust and mail-mi were both strongly suspected Day 2 and viable non-EFHW lynches. Voltaire was the least likely of the four to be lynched, given his Best Friends claim. That's why I think Voltaire was killed - and why I think EFHW killed him.
This is some strong evidence.
So I wonder whether we should lynch EFHW today. Say she is the SK. I'll do a worst-case scenario:
14 of us are alive, likely 4 of which are mafia. We leave EFHW alive and mislynch. EFHW targets me (or town!sudgy), mafia kills a townie, Jorbles kills a townie.
Then 11 of us are alive D4. We lynch EFHW. Mafia kills a townie. (I don't think Jorbles is actually 4-shot, so I'm excluding him here.)
9 of us are alive D5, 4 of which are mafia and 1 is a Survivor. With clever play (and Eevee's support), the mafia wins.
This is not good. In order to win, we should probably lynch third-party (EFHW or Eevee) today, or Jorbles should shoot third-party.
How do you know exactly how many mafia there are?
Ok, it is like for sure that EFHW is SK in my mind after seeing that. The psychiatrist/psychologist stuff is especially convincing to me. That said, I am still not sure she's the right lynch for today. On the other hand, it seems like she is basically caught, which means her chance of winning is hovering around 0%, which means she has no incentive to follow any instructions we might give her.
It is sort of a bird-in-the-hand vs two-in-the-bush sort of situation.
Although, perhaps it is possible that she's mafia and lying rather than SK and lying? That seems to strain the evidence a bit more but it might still be possible.
You make a compelling case, Voltgloss.
I still don't prefer lynching her, as if she is what she claims, it's very pro-me to have her target me, but I absolutely think you are making a decent case.
This is some strong evidence.
So I wonder whether we should lynch EFHW today. Say she is the SK. I'll do a worst-case scenario:
14 of us are alive, likely 4 of which are mafia. We leave EFHW alive and mislynch. EFHW targets me (or town!sudgy), mafia kills a townie, Jorbles kills a townie.
Then 11 of us are alive D4. We lynch EFHW. Mafia kills a townie. (I don't think Jorbles is actually 4-shot, so I'm excluding him here.)
9 of us are alive D5, 4 of which are mafia and 1 is a Survivor. With clever play (and Eevee's support), the mafia wins.
This is not good. In order to win, we should probably lynch third-party (EFHW or Eevee) today, or Jorbles should shoot third-party.
How do you know exactly how many mafia there are?
4 left alive is a base assumption that almost everybody has been making. Why are you trying to paint faust as scummy for this now when your name is on the lynching block?
If she is a SK-curer like she claims, it's of paramount importance for me to get targeted before she dies. I think my chances of not getting mislynched somewhere down the road are very slim unless the "Eevee is a SK" theory gets disproven while it can.You make a compelling case, Voltgloss.
I still don't prefer lynching her, as if she is what she claims, it's very pro-me to have her target me, but I absolutely think you are making a decent case.
???
Why do people think I'm scum? The only thing I could see is my claim, but I don't think that's lynch worthy.Why should we think you are town?
If you are going to mislynch, I would probably be a better mislynch because I haven't been too helpful this game...
Why do people think I'm scum? The only thing I could see is my claim, but I don't think that's lynch worthy.Why should we think you are town?
If you are going to mislynch, I would probably be a better mislynch because I haven't been too helpful this game...
I think we should lynch sudgy and vig efhw.
I think we should lynch sudgy and vig efhw.I don't, this kills me.
Why is no one but me considering the scenario where the SK is someone other than myself or EFHW? I guess it's mostly my scumreads doing that, which makes me feel better, but seriously. We lynch EFHW, she is what she claimed. We lynch me, I'm a survivor and it doesn't even result in me dying.. we lynch me again. Poof, it's day 6 and all mafia has to do is hit the real SK for the win.
I think we should lynch sudgy and vig efhw.I don't, this kills me.
I think we should lynch sudgy and vig efhw.I don't, this kills me.
????
Yes. Well, I guess if she knows she will be killed, she might as well shoot Eevee, but I don't want to take that chance.I think we should lynch sudgy and vig efhw.I don't, this kills me.
????
I think faust expects EFHW to kill him tonight (if she gets the chance).
I am open to other ideas, but I'm a bit surprised to see the wagon on chairs has completely died. He lied, and I don't think it was a lie a townie would need to make. That's the solidest case I've seen on anyone yet except maybe EFHW.Chairs seems like more blundering town than scum. I mean, it doesn't make sense from a town PR, but it also doesn't make sense from a scum faking town PR.
I am open to other ideas, but I'm a bit surprised to see the wagon on chairs has completely died. He lied, and I don't think it was a lie a townie would need to make. That's the solidest case I've seen on anyone yet except maybe EFHW.Chairs seems like more blundering town than scum. I mean, it doesn't make sense from a town PR, but it also doesn't make sense from a scum faking town PR.
I am open to other ideas, but I'm a bit surprised to see the wagon on chairs has completely died. He lied, and I don't think it was a lie a townie would need to make. That's the solidest case I've seen on anyone yet except maybe EFHW.Chairs seems like more blundering town than scum. I mean, it doesn't make sense from a town PR, but it also doesn't make sense from a scum faking town PR.
Why did he lie?
I think we should lynch sudgy and vig efhw.I don't, this kills me.
????
I think faust expects EFHW to kill him tonight (if she gets the chance).
If you're talking about where he could only target dunphys instead of not modern family, well, I just don't see that from either perspective, especially scum. And I think we should keep him alive for one more night to see if he investigates a legit investigation.I am open to other ideas, but I'm a bit surprised to see the wagon on chairs has completely died. He lied, and I don't think it was a lie a townie would need to make. That's the solidest case I've seen on anyone yet except maybe EFHW.Chairs seems like more blundering town than scum. I mean, it doesn't make sense from a town PR, but it also doesn't make sense from a scum faking town PR.
Why did he lie?
Where did he lie?im not remembering this.
I am open to other ideas, but I'm a bit surprised to see the wagon on chairs has completely died. He lied, and I don't think it was a lie a townie would need to make. That's the solidest case I've seen on anyone yet except maybe EFHW.Chairs seems like more blundering town than scum. I mean, it doesn't make sense from a town PR, but it also doesn't make sense from a scum faking town PR.
Why did he lie?
Where did he lie?im not remembering this.
Wow, okay, madness.
Chairs, did you not realize until now that you were naive toward all but Dunphys, or did you lie about your role?
When I initially discussed on d2 I didn't realize that there would be non Dunphy characters from modern family because the website I went to only listed them as major characters. Once I realized there were non Dunphy people I kept quiet hoping to see full flavor claims for more people to investigate. But since I couldn't explain my sudden theory without the clarification and it looked like we'd basically gotten all the claims I could reasonably be expected to survive anyway.
What website did you go to? Give it up, quick.
I think it was a wikia one? I don't know for sure.
Not good enough! Those are very thorough, usually!
vote: chairs. Policy lynch me, whatever. I've played my cop role like shit, but I think I've finally hit upon something that might be the key to town winning. Consider it.
I still have so much trouble believing that EFHW could have reasonably thought faust to be an SK prospect, given faust's Enabled claim and his hammering his likely Enabler. Even if you accept the idea of a town-enabled SK - strange in itself - why the hell would a town-enabled SK hammer his Enabler?
I mean, even accepting EFHW's statement that she believes Eevee to be Survivor (and I can't fault her there - I tend to believe Eevee too), she also had the option to target mail-mi. Why faust, the claimed Enabled, instead of mail-mi? EFHW just said she thought faust was "scummiest" of her choices - I don't recall if there was more to it than that.
If you're talking about where he could only target dunphys instead of not modern family, well, I just don't see that from either perspective, especially scum. And I think we should keep him alive for one more night to see if he investigates a legit investigation.I am open to other ideas, but I'm a bit surprised to see the wagon on chairs has completely died. He lied, and I don't think it was a lie a townie would need to make. That's the solidest case I've seen on anyone yet except maybe EFHW.Chairs seems like more blundering town than scum. I mean, it doesn't make sense from a town PR, but it also doesn't make sense from a scum faking town PR.
Why did he lie?
Where did he lie?im not remembering this.
I am very displeased here. I have done nothing scummy except be away from my computer during a couple marathon post sessions. Is there ANYTHING else ANYONE can point to besides the timing of my increasing my posts?
This post of EFHW's, in the midst of the late Day 1 scramble that I started to get town off lynching either mcmc or liopoil/Jorbles, was what originally raised my suspicions. Note her being upset about "hav[ing] done nothing scummy" and asking "ANYONE" to point to "ANYTHING" that is a reason to vote her other than "the timing of [her] increasing [her] posts."
The tone of the post reminds me of sparky8586 in Major Arcana Mafia I, who was mafia and was lynched Day 2, and made a post shortly before his lynch effectively complaining that he was lynched for the wrong reasons. I.e., he was annoyed that, in his view, he hadn't "done anything" for which he deserved to be lynched, and no one was pointing out any such good reasons for his lynched - yet he was being lynched anyway. And he did, and he was scum.
I mean that if he is a legit cop, he can get another investigation in. We don't want to lose our cop if he is one.If you're talking about where he could only target dunphys instead of not modern family, well, I just don't see that from either perspective, especially scum. And I think we should keep him alive for one more night to see if he investigates a legit investigation.I am open to other ideas, but I'm a bit surprised to see the wagon on chairs has completely died. He lied, and I don't think it was a lie a townie would need to make. That's the solidest case I've seen on anyone yet except maybe EFHW.Chairs seems like more blundering town than scum. I mean, it doesn't make sense from a town PR, but it also doesn't make sense from a scum faking town PR.
Why did he lie?
Where did he lie?im not remembering this.
Do you just mean any investigation that's not invalidated by some outside factor? Because at this point I would find it impossible to consider an investigation of his "legit" until after I see his flip. Do you mean so he can potentially create 1 IC or catch one scum after he dies?
Ok, there's a lot going on. I find Walrus's claim believable, and I hope it's not just b/c having Voltaire cleared makes everything simpler. Since it was N1, and kills are resolved last, then the psychologist receiving a negative result would mean the target was indeed not capable of killing.
I can't remember why Robz was supposed to be investigated. Does anyone else?
I'm completely null on Eevee's claim. It doesn't help us at all, it only helps him. So vote staying put at this point.
This is EFHW's post right after Walrus claimed "Wanna-Be Psychologist (Modified Gunsmith)." She immediately finds Walrus's claim believable.
It strikes me as odd that someone whose asserted flavor-role is "Alcoholic Psychology Professor" would immediately believe another player who claims his flavor-role is "Wanna-Be Psychologist."
For some reason I can't find psychologist in the wiki, only psychiatrist, which is something else entirely. I'm pretty sure it used to be there....
And EFHW posted this about 15 minutes later.
Finally, add EFHW's demeanor this Day 3, when she's been under heavy SK suspicion. Galz commented earlier that her play today has been "underwhelming," and I agree. If she were in fact Town, you'd expect her to be significantly more engaged in finding scum. Instead, all she seems to care about is defending herself and who she should target.
She's not behaving in a way conducive to helping town's wincon. Her behavior is about herself - which is in keeping with a third-party. Specifically, an SK. Even more specifically, an SK who is finding the game taxing, because there is so much suspicion on her of being an SK - suspicion that she knows to be correct.
2) I responded immediately to Galz and Robz' request re: mail-mi, but I also took time to think it through and ultimately prevented a mislynch by defending mail-mi.
Something I hadn't noticed until now, but adds to the EFHW case: she was the one to bring me to half L-1.
EFHW votes faust {4}
Something I hadn't noticed until now, but adds to the EFHW case: she was the one to bring me to half L-1.
EFHW votes faust {4}
Faust, assume we are 100% sure efhw is the serial killer. Why do we lynch her rather than hunting mafia?Is this in reference to my worst-case scenario? Yes, I just realized that maybe we wouldn't need to kill her D4. Maybe we could even make her a town-directed kill, abusing her supposed kill restriction. That doesn't work today though, it's already too late. And maybe she just stops killing once she can no longer win.
chairs, when exactly did you realize that there were more Modern Family characters than just Dunphys?
2) I responded immediately to Galz and Robz' request re: mail-mi, but I also took time to think it through and ultimately prevented a mislynch by defending mail-mi.
1. How did you prevent mail-mi's lynch?
2. How do you know it would have been a mislynch?
2) I responded immediately to Galz and Robz' request re: mail-mi, but I also took time to think it through and ultimately prevented a mislynch by defending mail-mi.
1. How did you prevent mail-mi's lynch?
2. How do you know it would have been a mislynch?
Well, I didn't single-handedly prevent the lynch, but I stood up for his being town. I don't know for sure, but obviously I think of it as going to be a mislynch.
This is making me really neurotic -- I think we do have to account for this:
....I haven't seen the shows, but it says in my PM that i win when all threats to the Study Group are eliminated.It's a pretty big risk to say this if you are mafia.
also suggests innocence.Mrrrg. I know, I know, I am grappling with this too.If I have the right post in mind, then we do we want him to post anything more?I have had a thought that contradicts Galz and Robz's assumptions, but not sure if/how to share it. I don't even know if I have the right post in mind!Let's hold off for now.
I would like to wait for mail-mi to get to a computer and give his reads.
There's no real case without the rolecop accusation.
At this point, I'm most inclined to believe that SK!EFHW claimed Psychiatrist hoping to get counterclaimed, so she could say "THANK GOD PLEASE CURE ME."
Woah. Well done, Voltgloss.
Given that it's now a certainty, I think we should kill her.
Vote: EFHW
Woah. Well done, Voltgloss.
Given that it's now a certainty, I think we should kill her.
Vote: EFHW
Why? Her targeting restriction is still quite real, and quite controllable. We're absolutely better off with her alive right now. She's a town vig controlled exclusively by the IC going forward. 2 people reach (L-1)/2 each day: Our lynch, and the IC approved target for her to shoot. Anybody else that gets up to her shoot restriction should be considered driven up by scum. At that point it's up to her to shoot or not, but she can't actively hurt town on her own.
If the restriction is truthful, who are her current possible targets?
Why does a SK need that kind of restriction in a game like this? Even in a smaller game, they usually have a buff. Would not be surprised if she is hiding something.
Why does a SK need that kind of restriction in a game like this? Even in a smaller game, they usually have a buff. Would not be surprised if she is hiding something.
If the restriction is truthful, who are her current possible targets?
Faust, Eevee
If the restriction is truthful, who are her current possible targets?
Faust, Eevee
I'm like 99.99% sure that the restriction is truthful. You think she made it up out of thin air?
Woah. Well done, Voltgloss.
Given that it's now a certainty, I think we should kill her.
Vote: EFHW
Why? Her targeting restriction is still quite real, and quite controllable. We're absolutely better off with her alive right now. She's a town vig controlled exclusively by the IC going forward. 2 people reach (L-1)/2 each day: Our lynch, and the IC approved target for her to shoot. Anybody else that gets up to her shoot restriction should be considered driven up by scum. At that point it's up to her to shoot or not, but she can't actively hurt town on her own.
We don't even know that she told the truth about that restriction. She's admitted scum!
Even in a smaller game, they usually have a buff. Would not be surprised if she is hiding something.
I feel for you, EFHW. That's a tough role to draw in a game this big, especially with the restriction.
What's most interesting to me is her claiming to have targeted nkirbit N1. Because that makes faust more suspicious in my eyes. I've been classifying faust as "likely town" based almost exclusively on the strength of his claim to have protected Galz N1, as Galz made a lot of sense to me as a SK target that night.
But she has no reason to lie. And shraeye's team would definitely NOT target Galz N1. So faust's claim to have protected Galz N1 is now nowhere near as "confirmed" as I originally considered it.
I need to reconsider the case on faust.
"second scum team" can also be the SK, and we were pretty sure there was one at the end of D2. And me preventing the factional kill was only going to happen if I didn't claim (if I claim, mafia would just choose another one of them to do the kill) or if Arch was the last of his team. So all of this only would have worked if I would have said "look, I'm a PR, I don't want Arch dead, but I can't tell you why". Which, again, would have looked like I am scum with Arch, and one of us would have ended up dead anyway.Man, why does a town!Jailkeeper hammer away his own power? Wouldn't he at least make a case for why he's still valuable as a PR? Or that we should at least consider keeping him and using him? Heck, at the very least if he really thought Archetype was scum, he could've argued to leave him alive and then Jailed him every night. :-/The basic thought was: taking out scum is worth losing a PR. And I was quite sure that Archetype was scum at the time. I didn't think my role was all that strong; most players here seem to have a PR, so I don't want to protect them anyway.
And considering the plan of jailkeeping Archetype every night: why would I want to do that? I thought Arch was scum. By jailkeeping him, I narrow down the kill pool for the other scum faction by 1, so this makes it more likely that the second scum faction hits town (especially if I announce it).
I also got some heavy suspicion D2. Me fullclaiming and arguing to keep Arch alive would have most likely led to people believing that Arch and me are scum partners.
Please explain the bolded section in more detail.
As far as we know, there's only one scum team. Further, if you jailkeep Archetype every night, and he's scum trying to perform his factional kill, it fails, saving us a death. Your line of thinking here doesn't seem to make sense from a town perspective.
Why couldn't you just claim Jailkeeper, but not indicate who you intended to jail on N2? I mean, Voltgloss would still have been a logical choice. Heck, you could've even claimed that you would be targeting Voltgloss, and then targeted Archetype instead.
But my enabler would one more scum dead (well, turns out that didn't work out). And scum didn't know what power town lost tonight. And there's a small chance that Galz enables me.Why couldn't you just claim Jailkeeper, but not indicate who you intended to jail on N2? I mean, Voltgloss would still have been a logical choice. Heck, you could've even claimed that you would be targeting Voltgloss, and then targeted Archetype instead.But if I claimed Jailkeeper, either I would have been mislynched or scum would have killed me as soon as they started to think that it's time to kill Voltgloss. So what I effectively would have done is this: I would have bought Voltgloss another night at the price of keeping one (believed) scum around. And sum can happily slaughter all our investigative roles.
I admit I didn't think this through all that clearly yesterday, but I still believe lynching Archetype was the best option then.
but... but... aren't you doing the exact same thing by lynching your enabler? Except that now scum don't need to waste a NK on you, because you're already stripped of your power. :-/
With faust more suspicious, I am more comfortable about EFHW having him and sudgy as her night targets. I was thinking of having mail-mi Roleblock EFHW tonight, but now I'm not so sure.My roleblock is in your hands.
I know Galz disagrees, but I still think that mail-mi and Robz are not BOTH scum.
Voltgloss, just to be clear (although I think you understand, but your post might be a misunderstood):[/quote]
I don't think that Mail-Mi and Robz ARE both scum, I think it's possible that they COULD both be scum.
Your original statement:Quote from: VoltglossI know Galz disagrees, but I still think that mail-mi and Robz are not BOTH scum.
What's most interesting to me is her claiming to have targeted nkirbit N1. Because that makes faust more suspicious in my eyes. I've been classifying faust as "likely town" based almost exclusively on the strength of his claim to have protected Galz N1, as Galz made a lot of sense to me as a SK target that night.
But she has no reason to lie. And shraeye's team would definitely NOT target Galz N1. So faust's claim to have protected Galz N1 is now nowhere near as "confirmed" as I originally considered it.
Hmm. If we manage to kill off all the Mafia, and then keep no-lynching without voting anyone, EFHW can't nightkill anybody.
Mods: If Town keeps no-lynching in a situation where remaining scum can't make any nightkills, can Town and that scum win jointly via Happily Ever After?
faust was the other guy I meant to name for excessive third party hunting instead of focusing on mafia, but the fact he continues to do so seems almost too bold. mafia could be panicking because we are poe'ing on them, maybe they see town wasting it lynches on third parties their best chance.Can you point out to me where this "excessive third party hunting" happened? And my previous post isn't third party hunting, it's mafia hunting.
Hmm. If we manage to kill off all the Mafia, and then keep no-lynching without voting anyone, EFHW can't nightkill anybody.
Mods: If Town keeps no-lynching in a situation where remaining scum can't make any nightkills, can Town and that scum win jointly via Happily Ever After?
I'm quite sure mods wouldn't allow this--yuma has strong views on not sharing wins.
I'd need to reread fully to give you a comprehensive list and I can't do it now. it's just my impression.faust was the other guy I meant to name for excessive third party hunting instead of focusing on mafia, but the fact he continues to do so seems almost too bold. mafia could be panicking because we are poe'ing on them, maybe they see town wasting it lynches on third parties their best chance.Can you point out to me where this "excessive third party hunting" happened? And my previous post isn't third party hunting, it's mafia hunting.
I think, before I explain my plan and its possible variants, I'd like to see everyone finish weighing in on the SK question. A number of players haven't posted substantively yet since EFHW's reveal.What is the SK question you'd like input on?
I think, before I explain my plan and its possible variants, I'd like to see everyone finish weighing in on the SK question. A number of players haven't posted substantively yet since EFHW's reveal.What is the SK question you'd like input on?
I'd need to reread fully to give you a comprehensive list and I can't do it now. it's just my impression.faust was the other guy I meant to name for excessive third party hunting instead of focusing on mafia, but the fact he continues to do so seems almost too bold. mafia could be panicking because we are poe'ing on them, maybe they see town wasting it lynches on third parties their best chance.Can you point out to me where this "excessive third party hunting" happened? And my previous post isn't third party hunting, it's mafia hunting.
To clarify, I'm not sure what the best course of action with efhw would be. I believe she has the restriction she described, but given the buffs I got, I think it's very unlikely she is telling everything about his role. It's likely the things she is omitting are such that she thinks she might have a shot at winning still. But, we have to prioritize getting rid of mafia, and if we can control her shot, she could even be an asset in hunting for mafia, at least for a while. Wasting a lynch or a vig shot clearly has an opportunity cost right now.
So, it's an interesting question what to do with efhw, and I'm not sure what I think is best, but not believing efhw is a serial killer or that I'm a survivor or wanting to automatically lynch someone for "not being town" without considering the ramifications seems scummy to me. I'm starting to realize I should try to care less about this game though, I should probably start preparing myself to getting shot by Jorbles or efhw.
Maybe in this situation we should have Jorbles claim if he still has a shot left? That would make our decision easier.or we could try to determine what we want to do in the possible scenarios (say he has 1, 2, unlimited or no shots left) and then he could claim if he thought that was helpful.
What's most interesting to me is her claiming to have targeted nkirbit N1. Because that makes faust more suspicious in my eyes. I've been classifying faust as "likely town" based almost exclusively on the strength of his claim to have protected Galz N1, as Galz made a lot of sense to me as a SK target that night.
But she has no reason to lie. And shraeye's team would definitely NOT target Galz N1. So faust's claim to have protected Galz N1 is now nowhere near as "confirmed" as I originally considered it.
I need to reconsider the case on faust.
What's most interesting to me is her claiming to have targeted nkirbit N1. Because that makes faust more suspicious in my eyes. I've been classifying faust as "likely town" based almost exclusively on the strength of his claim to have protected Galz N1, as Galz made a lot of sense to me as a SK target that night.
But she has no reason to lie. And shraeye's team would definitely NOT target Galz N1. So faust's claim to have protected Galz N1 is now nowhere near as "confirmed" as I originally considered it.
I need to reconsider the case on faust.
Then where is the mafia nk?
I do NOT think Jorbles should claim his number of shots remaining.What about a semi-claim - just say whether he can shoot tonight, nothing about upcoming nights?
I do NOT think Jorbles should claim his number of shots remaining.What about a semi-claim - just say whether he can shoot tonight, nothing about upcoming nights?
I do NOT think Jorbles should claim his number of shots remaining.What about a semi-claim - just say whether he can shoot tonight, nothing about upcoming nights?
Why do you want the mafia to know whether Jorbles is a threat to them tonight?
I agree with whoever said that bocaj is potentially a good target for efhw. Not tonight I think, but down the road. It's a guaranteed scum kill (efhw or lying scum bocaj)That was me. Tomorrow: I say get bocaj up to (L-1)/2 and our lynch, and nobody else. I would also say either policy lynch/vig anyone who pushes another person besides bocaj to (L-1)/2 tomorrow Voltgloss, do you agree?
I agree with whoever said that bocaj is potentially a good target for efhw. Not tonight I think, but down the road. It's a guaranteed scum kill (efhw or lying scum bocaj)That was me. Tomorrow: I say get bocaj up to (L-1)/2 and our lynch, and nobody else. I would also say either policy lynch/vig anyone who pushes another person besides bocaj to (L-1)/2 tomorrow Voltgloss, do you agree?
Oh right... she's not compulsive (that we know of) nevermind then.I agree with whoever said that bocaj is potentially a good target for efhw. Not tonight I think, but down the road. It's a guaranteed scum kill (efhw or lying scum bocaj)That was me. Tomorrow: I say get bocaj up to (L-1)/2 and our lynch, and nobody else. I would also say either policy lynch/vig anyone who pushes another person besides bocaj to (L-1)/2 tomorrow Voltgloss, do you agree?
She'll simply not shoot. It's directly detrimental to her wincon if he's telling the truth, so why would she? That's simply wasting an opportunity to use a controlled shot.
Granted, she may not choose to shoot on any given night. We can't control that. But you can't force her to (possibly) kill herself. She's no reason whatsoever to do that. If you want to use her shot (and I've been saying for days that we should), you're still going to have to work with her, not against her.
Whoever we bring to (L-1)/2 though, we should still policy lynch/vig anyone who does that to someone else.Oh right... she's not compulsive (that we know of) nevermind then.I agree with whoever said that bocaj is potentially a good target for efhw. Not tonight I think, but down the road. It's a guaranteed scum kill (efhw or lying scum bocaj)That was me. Tomorrow: I say get bocaj up to (L-1)/2 and our lynch, and nobody else. I would also say either policy lynch/vig anyone who pushes another person besides bocaj to (L-1)/2 tomorrow Voltgloss, do you agree?
She'll simply not shoot. It's directly detrimental to her wincon if he's telling the truth, so why would she? That's simply wasting an opportunity to use a controlled shot.
Granted, she may not choose to shoot on any given night. We can't control that. But you can't force her to (possibly) kill herself. She's no reason whatsoever to do that. If you want to use her shot (and I've been saying for days that we should), you're still going to have to work with her, not against her.
Woah. Well done, Voltgloss.
Given that it's now a certainty, I think we should kill her.
Vote: EFHW
Why? Her targeting restriction is still quite real, and quite controllable. We're absolutely better off with her alive right now. She's a town vig controlled exclusively by the IC going forward. 2 people reach (L-1)/2 each day: Our lynch, and the IC approved target for her to shoot. Anybody else that gets up to her shoot restriction should be considered driven up by scum. At that point it's up to her to shoot or not, but she can't actively hurt town on her own.
We really are going to be playing with fire keeping her alive. She will turn on us the second it's even slightly feasible. This is not like eevee, who can win with us. She cannot win with us.
I do agree that only an IC (me or AHoppy) should cast any vote tomorrow that brings someone to EFHW's targeting range.
Efhw, why do you want to help town instead of scum?
We really are going to be playing with fire keeping her alive. She will turn on us the second it's even slightly feasible. This is not like eevee, who can win with us. She cannot win with us.
I think it's good for one night but we really do need to be careful to not let the game swing on us.
I think we leave EFHW alive and control her shot. All her targets tonight are fine with me, and tomorrow we can control it. We could even make her target the PGO and find if his claim is truthful.
I was thinking the same thing as Eevee (I think it was him who said it) being super suspicious of Robz hardcore 3rd party hunting. So, I still have a big FoS on Robz.
MXXXI Setup Information
Generic Win Condition Clarifications:
--For town to win the game, at least one town member must be alive at the end.
--For any scum (i.e., mafia, werewolf, serial killer) to win the game, at least one member of that scum's faction must be alive AND no other faction player may be alive at the end (may be endgamed).
--If players from two or more non-Town factions exist, and are alive in an end-game scenario, a "Happily Ever After Win" will be awarded to those factions only.
I'm cool with the plan, although it does put a lot of trust in Chairs being town.
Fair enough.... 3 NKs?
Honestly if EFHW works with us there's just about no way we can lose this game, and it doesn't really matter what we do, since we will be getting 3 NKs a night to the mafia's 1, and we already have 2 ICs + Jorbles who I would be shocked if scum. That's a situation town cannot lose.
Eh. I wanted bocaJ's response before posting this but I'm concerned about running out our time.So... I'm gonna die and take my top two scumreads with me? I guess I can live (har, har) with that. Of course I'd prefer a plan where I actually stay alive, so here's a little tweak: Don't let EFHW choose who she targets tonight, instead tell her a target, and let Jorbles kill the other one. The Jorbles kill probably should be whoever of sudgy/me you guys find townier.
The plan I am thinking about is (1) having EFHW announce who she will nightkill tonight - either sudgy or faust; (2) lynching bocaJ; and (3) having Jorbles kill whichever of {sudgy/faust} EFHW is not killing.
If we do the above, I'd instruct chairs to investigate either mail-mi, Dsell, or Twistedarcher. I'd also instruct mail-mi to NOT use his roleblock tonight. If mail-mi is town, I think the best time to use his roleblock is once we are down to only one Mafia left.
I am suspicious of Robz but I don't think we should consider killing him today/tonight. If he is scum, we want to kill him last.
Dsell and Twistedarcher are questions for tomorrow, when we may want one or both to claim (depending on flips). mail-mi is also a question for tomorrow.
I'm certainly not decided yet, but this is the plan I'm thinking about.
PPE: Twistedarcher's latest. I do agree that neither Dsell nor TA should be pushed to EFHW's targeting range without their having first claimed. I think we are better off waiting until tomorrow for those claims.
I don't care whether we follow faust's tweak to the plan or not. I'll defer to others on it. I will target whoever EFHW does not. Are we basically in agreement at this point, though? If so are we ready to lynch?
Eh. I wanted bocaJ's response before posting this but I'm concerned about running out our time.I like it. vote: bocaJ
The plan I am thinking about is (1) having EFHW announce who she will nightkill tonight - either sudgy or faust; (2) lynching bocaJ; and (3) having Jorbles kill whichever of {sudgy/faust} EFHW is not killing.
If we do the above, I'd instruct chairs to investigate either mail-mi, Dsell, or Twistedarcher. I'd also instruct mail-mi to NOT use his roleblock tonight. If mail-mi is town, I think the best time to use his roleblock is once we are down to only one Mafia left.
I am suspicious of Robz but I don't think we should consider killing him today/tonight. If he is scum, we want to kill him last.
Dsell and Twistedarcher are questions for tomorrow, when we may want one or both to claim (depending on flips). mail-mi is also a question for tomorrow.
I'm certainly not decided yet, but this is the plan I'm thinking about.
PPE: Twistedarcher's latest. I do agree that neither Dsell nor TA should be pushed to EFHW's targeting range without their having first claimed. I think we are better off waiting until tomorrow for those claims.
Day3 will end Saturday, October 19 at 11:30 am forum time.
Sorry, as I said before, I haven't been able to get into this game that well. I, obviously, am against the plan, but would be fine with the other people mentioned in it to be killed.Why is it "obvious" that you are against the plan? Why do you want to stay alive that much?
Sorry, as I said before, I haven't been able to get into this game that well. I, obviously, am against the plan, but would be fine with the other people mentioned in it to be killed.Why is it "obvious" that you are against the plan? Why do you want to stay alive that much?
Eh. I wanted bocaJ's response before posting this but I'm concerned about running out our time.So... I'm gonna die and take my top two scumreads with me? I guess I can live (har, har) with that. Of course I'd prefer a plan where I actually stay alive, so here's a little tweak: Don't let EFHW choose who she targets tonight, instead tell her a target, and let Jorbles kill the other one. The Jorbles kill probably should be whoever of sudgy/me you guys find townier.
The plan I am thinking about is (1) having EFHW announce who she will nightkill tonight - either sudgy or faust; (2) lynching bocaJ; and (3) having Jorbles kill whichever of {sudgy/faust} EFHW is not killing.
If we do the above, I'd instruct chairs to investigate either mail-mi, Dsell, or Twistedarcher. I'd also instruct mail-mi to NOT use his roleblock tonight. If mail-mi is town, I think the best time to use his roleblock is once we are down to only one Mafia left.
I am suspicious of Robz but I don't think we should consider killing him today/tonight. If he is scum, we want to kill him last.
Dsell and Twistedarcher are questions for tomorrow, when we may want one or both to claim (depending on flips). mail-mi is also a question for tomorrow.
I'm certainly not decided yet, but this is the plan I'm thinking about.
PPE: Twistedarcher's latest. I do agree that neither Dsell nor TA should be pushed to EFHW's targeting range without their having first claimed. I think we are better off waiting until tomorrow for those claims.
You are the first to disagree! Really, how could anyone credibly disagree with the plan? I didn't realize my opinion was wanted. I agree to direct my shot where town tells me to.
Voltgloss, what's the exact story for Eevee being what he claims? Not your reads on him, but the actual facts supporting it?
Who claimed to shoot Shraeye N1? And nkirbit? Was that Jorbles and EFHW respectively?
Who claimed to shoot Shraeye N1? And nkirbit? Was that Jorbles and EFHW respectively?
Jorbles claimed to shoot shraeye. EFHW claimed to shoot nkirbit.
Who claimed to shoot Shraeye N1? And nkirbit? Was that Jorbles and EFHW respectively?
Jorbles claimed to shoot shraeye. EFHW claimed to shoot nkirbit.
Alright... I know this is out there... and hell, maybe it's far enough out there that you tip your hat and are willing to lose to...:
Let's assume for a moment that you're scum. You get your PM, you go to your QT, and you find that you're on a scum team with five people (maybe even 6). N1 rolls around, and you hatch a plan. One that's never been done before on f.DS, but -could- work simply due to the size of the game. You shoot one of your own teammates, and claim Vig the following day. Another member of your team decides to claim Survivor because it's a claim that can buy them time - they're no threat if they can't do anything, right? N2 rolls around, and you shoot whichever player you feel needs to be shot (Walrus, in this case?). On D3, you claim to have shot your Mafioso-claimed-Survivor-partner, who comes clean that they had a bullet-proof buff to make their ability to win a little easier (odd then, that Eevee has these buffs, but EFHW doesn't?).
Who claimed to shoot Shraeye N1? And nkirbit? Was that Jorbles and EFHW respectively?
Jorbles claimed to shoot shraeye. EFHW claimed to shoot nkirbit.
Alright... I know this is out there... and hell, maybe it's far enough out there that you tip your hat and are willing to lose to...:
Let's assume for a moment that you're scum. You get your PM, you go to your QT, and you find that you're on a scum team with five people (maybe even 6). N1 rolls around, and you hatch a plan. One that's never been done before on f.DS, but -could- work simply due to the size of the game. You shoot one of your own teammates, and claim Vig the following day. Another member of your team decides to claim Survivor because it's a claim that can buy them time - they're no threat if they can't do anything, right? N2 rolls around, and you shoot whichever player you feel needs to be shot (Walrus, in this case?). On D3, you claim to have shot your Mafioso-claimed-Survivor-partner, who comes clean that they had a bullet-proof buff to make their ability to win a little easier (odd then, that Eevee has these buffs, but EFHW doesn't?).
I bolded the part of this that is absolutely impossible.
If Jorbles was scum, shot his scum partner shraeye... yeah, that's a crazy plan, but it would be cool, and it's possible! But if Jorbles did that, what he absolutely would not do is wait until Day 3! That would be crazy dangerous... he would want the townie points for killing his partner immediately, wouldn't he? What if he died Night 2 without ever explaining it? Then it would all be for nothing. I would have expected the claim immediately, not Day 3. So no, I don't think this could be.
Two immediate thoughts in response to Galz.
1. I love that crazy convoluted plan, Galz. It's brilliantly twisted.
2. But: Occam's Razor.
PPE: And Robz is correct. Jorbles didn't claim Vig, or having shot shraeye, until Day 3. We all assumed the SK shot shraeye.
Voltgloss, I agree with everything you've said relating to TA/Dsell in your last post. The only thing I wonder.... well, it would depend. They could potentially create another "likely town" player.... but it really does depend on how they've played their role up to this point in the game. And without saying more, I can't really say if that's the case or not.
Voltgloss, I agree with everything you've said relating to TA/Dsell in your last post. The only thing I wonder.... well, it would depend. They could potentially create another "likely town" player.... but it really does depend on how they've played their role up to this point in the game. And without saying more, I can't really say if that's the case or not.
Agreed. It's not a slam dunk by any means. It's more an attempt to maximize our chances.
I also gather from your response that you now see the reason why I think at least one of TA/Dsell is almost certainly town - and what to look for in their claims tomorrow to figure out which. Am I correct?
Intent to vote bocaJ.
I just realized, scum might kill EFHW... It makes sense, we already know what she is, and they don't want to be killed.
Vote Count 3.16.a:
TA (2): bocaJ, efhw
bocaJ (4): faust, Jorbles, mail-mi, Robz888, (Intent: Galzria)
sudgy (2): Galzria, TA
chairs (1): Dsell
EFHW (1): sudgy
Not Voting (4): Ahoppy, Eevee, Voltgloss, chairs
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.
Day3 will end Saturday, October 19 at 11:30 am forum time.[/color]
PPE: Mines better. It shows intent. :P
Vote Count 3.16.a:
TA (2): bocaJ, efhw
bocaJ (4): faust, Jorbles, mail-mi, Robz888, (Intent: Galzria)
sudgy (2): Galzria, TA
chairs (1): Dsell
EFHW (1): sudgy
Not Voting (4): Ahoppy, Eevee, Voltgloss, chairs
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.
Day3 will end Saturday, October 19 at 11:30 am forum time.[/color]
PPE: Mines better. It shows intent. :P
Mine is better, yours has an extra "[/color]" so it is flawed...
EDIT: if anyone attempt to do a "Mine" joke off this they may be immediately modkilled...
EFHW, please let us know who you are targeting tonight: sudgy or faust. I don't have a strong preference.
EFHW, please let us know who you are targeting tonight: sudgy or faust. I don't have a strong preference.
sudgy
Well, looks like I'm dead, as efhw is targeting me tonight. I might as well Vote: bocaJ
This has been one of my not-so-great moments in mafia. Mainly from my lack of participation.
Well, looks like I'm dead, as efhw is targeting me tonight. I might as well Vote: bocaJ
This has been one of my not-so-great moments in mafia. Mainly from my lack of participation.
Not so great as Mafia, or not so great as town?
I would very much like to see bocaJ's response to EFHW's reveal.
I really want bocaJ to react to this. bocaJ, if you are out there, speak now.
I will again state that any plan which requires EFHW to shoot bocaj is terrible. She has no incentive to follow through on this. Even if she is secretly BP--which makes sense, given that Eevee is--she still has no incentive.I agree. I think it's extremely likely EFHW isn't disclosing all there is to her role.
I will again state that any plan which requires EFHW to shoot bocaj is terrible. She has no incentive to follow through on this. Even if she is secretly BP--which makes sense, given that Eevee is--she still has no incentive.I agree. I think it's extremely likely EFHW isn't disclosing all there is to her role.
I'm not even sure what you suggest would work, bocaj. I think roleblocking happens before shooting, so if EFHW was roleblocked, she wouldn't be able to target you at all, right?
Regardless, EFHW will never shoot you, so any plan that asks her to do so is pointless.
There's no harm is asking her, but there is harm in proceeding to night as if that's what's going to happen.
I'm not even sure what you suggest would work, bocaj. I think roleblocking happens before shooting, so if EFHW was roleblocked, she wouldn't be able to target you at all, right?
Regardless, EFHW will never shoot you, so any plan that asks her to do so is pointless.
There's no harm is asking her, but there is harm in proceeding to night as if that's what's going to happen.
I would think that you could target, but that it would just fizzle.
I do have a question out to the mods on this issue, so I'll let folks know what I hear back.
I won't shoot bocaJ. I kind of like his spoiler idea (if it is him and one scum left, scum dies too). I am concerned that we have 3 townies in our sights, but I also see the value in proceeding systematically. Right now we are limiting our targets based on who I would be free to shoot. Since I know you can count on me to follow town's lead, I'd be happier with a TA lynch, myself. And that would be informative re: Dsell. We could get DSell up to 4 votes, and if TA flips town I can kill DSell.I...like this plan also. Is it better than VG's plan? I'll think on it.
EFHW, please let us know who you are targeting tonight: sudgy or faust. I don't have a strong preference.
sudgy
Got it, thanks. Jorbles, take note.
I won't shoot bocaJ. I kind of like his spoiler idea (if it is him and one scum left, scum dies too). I am concerned that we have 3 townies in our sights, but I also see the value in proceeding systematically. Right now we are limiting our targets based on who I would be free to shoot. Since I know you can count on me to follow town's lead, I'd be happier with a TA lynch, myself. And that would be informative re: Dsell. We could get DSell up to 4 votes, and if TA flips town I can kill DSell.Why exactly does Dsell have to be scum if TA flips town? Also, what Eevee said.
Either, but town in this case.Well, looks like I'm dead, as efhw is targeting me tonight. I might as well Vote: bocaJNot so great as Mafia, or not so great as town?
This has been one of my not-so-great moments in mafia. Mainly from my lack of participation.
I won't shoot bocaJ. I kind of like his spoiler idea (if it is him and one scum left, scum dies too). I am concerned that we have 3 townies in our sights, but I also see the value in proceeding systematically. Right now we are limiting our targets based on who I would be free to shoot. Since I know you can count on me to follow town's lead, I'd be happier with a TA lynch, myself. And that would be informative re: Dsell. We could get DSell up to 4 votes, and if TA flips town I can kill DSell.
Though we don't know all the variables, it's a bit like a game of chicken with mafia as to who has to waste their weaponry on killing her. To me the relevant question is not if it helps us to have her live, but how much it hurts us to kill her in opportunity cost.
Though we don't know all the variables, it's a bit like a game of chicken with mafia as to who has to waste their weaponry on killing her. To me the relevant question is not if it helps us to have her live, but how much it hurts us to kill her in opportunity cost.
I agree, and sure we would rather have them kill her, but as I've just realized, she's ultimately a liability to town, not scum, because SK and mafia actually can win together.
Though we don't know all the variables, it's a bit like a game of chicken with mafia as to who has to waste their weaponry on killing her. To me the relevant question is not if it helps us to have her live, but how much it hurts us to kill her in opportunity cost.
I agree, and sure we would rather have them kill her, but as I've just realized, she's ultimately a liability to town, not scum, because SK and mafia actually can win together.
Though we don't know all the variables, it's a bit like a game of chicken with mafia as to who has to waste their weaponry on killing her. To me the relevant question is not if it helps us to have her live, but how much it hurts us to kill her in opportunity cost.
I agree, and sure we would rather have them kill her, but as I've just realized, she's ultimately a liability to town, not scum, because SK and mafia actually can win together.
I can't win with mafia - everyone has to be dead for me to win. There is no scenario here in which I win. There's just whether you want to take advantage of me or cut me loose.
--If players from two or more non-Town factions exist, and are alive in an end-game scenario, a "Happily Ever After Win" will be awarded to those factions only.
no, I don't think that refers to me. My wincon says everyone has to be dead except me.Though we don't know all the variables, it's a bit like a game of chicken with mafia as to who has to waste their weaponry on killing her. To me the relevant question is not if it helps us to have her live, but how much it hurts us to kill her in opportunity cost.
I agree, and sure we would rather have them kill her, but as I've just realized, she's ultimately a liability to town, not scum, because SK and mafia actually can win together.
I can't win with mafia - everyone has to be dead for me to win. There is no scenario here in which I win. There's just whether you want to take advantage of me or cut me loose.
Are you trying to mislead us here?
--If players from two or more non-Town factions exist, and are alive in an end-game scenario, a "Happily Ever After Win" will be awarded to those factions only.
Why do you guys think I'm scum because my role works differently than on the wiki? Doesn't that make it more likely because I wouldn't fakeclaim something weird?If you are a scum doctor, you would want to be able to continue healing without it being known, AND you wouldn't want town asking you why you 1) aren't dead after the night and 2) aren't healing town.
Thanks, TA.
I think Dsell has to be town. I suppose I should explain why - Galz, do you disagree?
Dsell, do not claim.
(This does not necessarily mean TA is scum.)
Thanks, TA.
I think Dsell has to be town. I suppose I should explain why - Galz, do you disagree?
Dsell, do not claim.
(This does not necessarily mean TA is scum.)
I have a guess as to what you may be thinking, although if I try to see if we're on the same page, it may give Dsell's role away.
Volt, a potentially more likely crazy scenario:
Eevee is Mafia-claimed-survivor, Jorbles is town, and Sudgy is a working Mafia Doctor who targeted Eevee last night - hence why Eevee didn't claim his "bonuses" until today, and hence why EFHW claims to have none.
Granted, this scenario is still solved by following the current plan, as sudgy's flip will clue us in to the possibility of this working out.
Thanks, TA.
I think Dsell has to be town. I suppose I should explain why - Galz, do you disagree?
Dsell, do not claim.
(This does not necessarily mean TA is scum.)
no, I don't think that refers to me. My wincon says everyone has to be dead except me.Though we don't know all the variables, it's a bit like a game of chicken with mafia as to who has to waste their weaponry on killing her. To me the relevant question is not if it helps us to have her live, but how much it hurts us to kill her in opportunity cost.
I agree, and sure we would rather have them kill her, but as I've just realized, she's ultimately a liability to town, not scum, because SK and mafia actually can win together.
I can't win with mafia - everyone has to be dead for me to win. There is no scenario here in which I win. There's just whether you want to take advantage of me or cut me loose.
Are you trying to mislead us here?
--If players from two or more non-Town factions exist, and are alive in an end-game scenario, a "Happily Ever After Win" will be awarded to those factions only.
TA's claim is that if he gets shot, Jorbles dies instead? Is that right?
no, I don't think that refers to me. My wincon says everyone has to be dead except me.
Whatever, I'm doing it. At this point, I don't think I'm saying anything mafia doesn't already know.
I think Dsell must be a Tracker OR a Watcher. And that he is Town.
Why? Because shraeye flipped Ninja. Ninja is only useful if there is an opposing Tracker or Watcher who could otherwise catch someone on their team. I don't believe ash/yuma would give scum a protection from a role that doesn't exist in the game. So there's a Tracker or Watcher among us - and the only person left for it to be is Dsell.
Scum still don't know if he's Tracker or Watcher though, and I want to keep things that way.
Dsell, do you have any useful information from Nights 1 and 2? Don't say WHO you targeted - just say what you learned. (To the extent it's something that hasn't already been claimed/revealed.)
PPE: 6, I see Dsell hiding his role is now moot.
Well at this point we should certainly not do anything until we get Dsell's info or lackthereof.
I had assumed that TA was Mitchell from previous posts regarding flavour. There is no indication in my flavour that I am TA's Bodyguard, but that doesn't mean it's not true.
I still don't see a problem with following the plan as is, given TAs claim. It would slow the game down in term of NKs, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. I can see why Dsell may not have claimed for multiple reasons, I think it's worth it for him not to claim to hide what those reasons are for now.
PPE: 6, I see Dsell hiding his role is now moot.
I had assumed that TA was Mitchell from previous posts regarding flavour. There is no indication in my flavour that I am TA's Bodyguard, but that doesn't mean it's not true.
I still don't see a problem with following the plan as is, given TAs claim. It would slow the game down in term of NKs, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. I can see why Dsell may not have claimed for multiple reasons, I think it's worth it for him not to claim to hide what those reasons are for now.
PPE: 6, I see Dsell hiding his role is now moot.
I went back and forth between thinking you definitely have information to there's no way you have information about being bodyguarded.
My final conclusion was that I didn't think you'd have info on being bodyguard AND being something else, and that if you just had information on being a bodyguard, having a bodyguard-bodyguarded pair with no other information seems really, really, silly.
I was expecting you to be a cop or something, though, and not a vig. I was surprised when your claim came up. I definitely thought you were an investigative role that was more likely to die (you could die from 2 targets at night, not just 1).
TA, when did you realize Jorbles was Cam?
TA, when did you realize Jorbles was Cam?
I realized D1 with Liopoil's Jester thing. Jester = Clown = Cameron
TA, when did you realize Jorbles was Cam?
I realized D1 with Liopoil's Jester thing. Jester = Clown = Cameron
Can someone more versed in Modern Family confirm how reasonable a conclusion this is to draw?
I had assumed that TA was Mitchell from previous posts regarding flavour. There is no indication in my flavour that I am TA's Bodyguard, but that doesn't mean it's not true.
I still don't see a problem with following the plan as is, given TAs claim.It would slow the game down in term of NKs, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.I can see why Dsell may not have claimed for multiple reasons, I think it's worth it for him not to claim to hide what those reasons are for now.
PPE: 6, I see Dsell hiding his role is now moot.
I have no information that clears or condemns any living player.
I have no information that clears or condemns any living player.
So YOU say. But like, are you sure you don't have anything that like would clue us in at all? You are really, really sure? I ask because some people who are ostensibly town PRs have vastly misunderstood matters based on their powers.
Is Sudgy still here or V/LA?
Voltgloss, who did Sudgy claim to target N1? Did he claim to send names N2?
Dsell, don't just think about the results you have, compare them with what's been claimed very careful to consider ANY possible discrepancies.
Dsell, don't just think about the results you have, compare them with what's been claimed very careful to consider ANY possible discrepancies.
Dsell, don't just think about the results you have, compare them with what's been claimed very careful to consider ANY possible discrepancies.
It is possible that Dsell could be a role other than a Watcher or Tracker and have a reason to not claim. It is also possible that he is a watching-y role, but has no information on players that is not already known to be true. I'd trust Dsell to know what's best given that he knows his own role, and we don't. (At least until tomorrow when I think he'll be under a lot more scrutiny)
Dsell, don't just think about the results you have, compare them with what's been claimed very careful to consider ANY possible discrepancies.
It is possible that Dsell could be a role other than a Watcher or Tracker and have a reason to not claim. It is also possible that he is a watching-y role, but has no information on players that is not already known to be true. I'd trust Dsell to know what's best given that he knows his own role, and we don't. (At least until tomorrow when I think he'll be under a lot more scrutiny)
And I would trust faust not to hammer away his own Jailkeeper Role.
And I would trust Chairs to play his role in a way that actually helps town.
What's your point? At this point we've had ridiculously bad town play, or scum play that's getting passed off as ridiculously bad town play. At this point I really don't trust much of anything or anyone to play their role to it's greatest ability - especially when that someone (Dsell) was so absent D1/D2.
So basically, you want Dsell to fullclaim?
Man, I have played mafia once or twice before.
Man, I have played mafia once or twice before.
Man, I have played mafia once or twice before.
Look this isn't meant to be insulting to you, this is a confusing game and we've all missed stuff. I've missed stuff that Galz has later pointed out to me in our qt, and I've proposed some things to him that he hadn't thought of yet. And has he noted, we have more than one player already playing very sub optimal as town. There's a lot t stake here. All we are saying is think really hard about all the possible implications of any result you may have.
All we are saying is think really hard about all the possible implications of any result you may have.
Man, I have played mafia once or twice before.
Yes, but you've also made clear that you haven't always been paying as close attention as you should be to this game. :P
Nobody has asked, implied or suggested that you should claim anything.
Volt and Galzria, do you guys have some means of communication we don't know about?
Volt and Galzria, do you guys have some means of communication we don't know about?Volt and galz are scum buddies, calling it ;D!
Volt and Galzria, do you guys have some means of communication we don't know about?Volt and galz are scum buddies, calling it ;D!
I don't have much to add right now, I trust Dsell's results.
Just want to make sure that EFHW and Jorbles are 100% on the same page.
EFHW, please let us know who you are targeting tonight: sudgy or faust. I don't have a strong preference.
sudgy
Got it, thanks. Jorbles, take note.
Noted.
Is this what the mail-mi case was about?
Yes. Mail-mi called me as "mentor" the second that galz came out with our claim. I have never heard of mentor before... Mail mi calling it so quickly made me think he was a role cop... Possibly and dangerously a scum one. That was the extent of the mail mi thing.
However, Voltgloss gussed this, directed me to lotr2, where mentor came up about a million times, and thus it wasn't suspicious that mail mi had thought of mentor. I wasn't in lotr2 and didn't follow it, so I didn't know mentor was something generally known to al. Sorry about that, but obviously explaining myself would hav been bad.
He was probably roleblocked.
I'm going to either single handedly lose town the game here, or put us back in it:
Robz has claimed to be a Mentor. Voltgloss knew this. He knew that it means that I die if Robz dies. This has been a really tough situation because if Robz is town, game over when scum kills him.
.... But... I can't believe scum hasn't figured this out yet. And yet he lives. Further, he doesn't have his own personal night kill - something that's granted to both town Mentors and Third Party Mentors but NOT mafia Mentors.
The combination of this all leaves me thinking (hoping) that he's scum. Because if he's not then I really don't understand anything at this point.
So.... I need to vote: Robz. And if this costs town the game, I'm sorry. But I can't bank on him being town in the face of everything else.
Yes. Mail-mi called me as "mentor" the second that galz came out with our claim. I have never heard of mentor before... Mail mi calling it so quickly made me think he was a role cop... Possibly and dangerously a scum one. That was the extent of the mail mi thing.
However, Voltgloss gussed this, directed me to lotr2, where mentor came up about a million times, and thus it wasn't suspicious that mail mi had thought of mentor. I wasn't in lotr2 and didn't follow it, so I didn't know mentor was something generally known to al. Sorry about that, but obviously explaining myself would hav been bad.
Didn't galz mod lotr2 though, so this shouldn't have been suspicious to you two?
Yes. Mail-mi called me as "mentor" the second that galz came out with our claim. I have never heard of mentor before... Mail mi calling it so quickly made me think he was a role cop... Possibly and dangerously a scum one. That was the extent of the mail mi thing.
However, Voltgloss gussed this, directed me to lotr2, where mentor came up about a million times, and thus it wasn't suspicious that mail mi had thought of mentor. I wasn't in lotr2 and didn't follow it, so I didn't know mentor was something generally known to al. Sorry about that, but obviously explaining myself would hav been bad.
Didn't galz mod lotr2 though, so this shouldn't have been suspicious to you two?
? He agreed with my mail mi when I presented it. I don't remember if he mentioned modding. If he did, it certai ly didn't deter his faith in the case.
Yes. Mail-mi called me as "mentor" the second that galz came out with our claim. I have never heard of mentor before... Mail mi calling it so quickly made me think he was a role cop... Possibly and dangerously a scum one. That was the extent of the mail mi thing.
However, Voltgloss gussed this, directed me to lotr2, where mentor came up about a million times, and thus it wasn't suspicious that mail mi had thought of mentor. I wasn't in lotr2 and didn't follow it, so I didn't know mentor was something generally known to al. Sorry about that, but obviously explaining myself would hav been bad.
Didn't galz mod lotr2 though, so this shouldn't have been suspicious to you two?
? He agreed with my mail mi when I presented it. I don't remember if he mentioned modding. If he did, it certai ly didn't deter his faith in the case.
I thought the timeline was that mail-mi did something suspicious, then Voltgloss redirected you to LOTR2, then you found out it was no longer suspicious due to LOTR2. Right? Is this correct?
He was probably roleblocked.
I'm going to either single handedly lose town the game here, or put us back in it:
Robz has claimed to be a Mentor. Voltgloss knew this. He knew that it means that I die if Robz dies. This has been a really tough situation because if Robz is town, game over when scum kills him.
.... But... I can't believe scum hasn't figured this out yet. And yet he lives. Further, he doesn't have his own personal night kill - something that's granted to both town Mentors and Third Party Mentors but NOT mafia Mentors.
The combination of this all leaves me thinking (hoping) that he's scum. Because if he's not then I really don't understand anything at this point.
So.... I need to vote: Robz. And if this costs town the game, I'm sorry. But I can't bank on him being town in the face of everything else.
Well then we lose, and it's entirely on you.
Yes. Mail-mi called me as "mentor" the second that galz came out with our claim. I have never heard of mentor before... Mail mi calling it so quickly made me think he was a role cop... Possibly and dangerously a scum one. That was the extent of the mail mi thing.
However, Voltgloss gussed this, directed me to lotr2, where mentor came up about a million times, and thus it wasn't suspicious that mail mi had thought of mentor. I wasn't in lotr2 and didn't follow it, so I didn't know mentor was something generally known to al. Sorry about that, but obviously explaining myself would hav been bad.
Didn't galz mod lotr2 though, so this shouldn't have been suspicious to you two?
? He agreed with my mail mi when I presented it. I don't remember if he mentioned modding. If he did, it certai ly didn't deter his faith in the case.
I thought the timeline was that mail-mi did something suspicious, then Voltgloss redirected you to LOTR2, then you found out it was no longer suspicious due to LOTR2. Right? Is this correct?
OP says deadlines are ten days, yet ours is only seven. Which is it?
Also, why now to bring up this case?
But since there based on things entirely out of my control, I have no way to dissuade him from them. I don't even think they are likely scum-motivated, although the thing TA asked about with LOTR2 is a little fishy.
Ok, that's what I mostly thought on the timeline.
Galz, are you saying that you never read the mentor/mentee argument in LOTR?
Also, why now to bring up this case?
But since there based on things entirely out of my control, I have no way to dissuade him from them. I don't even think they are likely scum-motivated, although the thing TA asked about with LOTR2 is a little fishy.
You think Galz is town?
I think that if we do lynch Robz, we are guaranteed to kill a mafia. The problem is, lynching Robz is also a guarantee of killing a town member. I really do doubt that they are both town, but I also doubt they're both scum. (Although it would be a brilliant, brilliant, brilliant gambit if they've been lying about having a QT this entire time).
But since there based on things entirely out of my control, I have no way to dissuade him from them. I don't even think they are likely scum-motivated, although the thing TA asked about with LOTR2 is a little fishy.
You think Galz is town?
I think so, but that's based almost entirely on our QT, where he has consistently advocated the thing most likely to get us both killed. And now, he actually is advocating that. So I don't see any reason for him to be scum. Do you?
I know we have been treating Jorbles as an IC, but is there any scenario where he actually is mafia?
I know we have been treating Jorbles as an IC, but is there any scenario where he actually is mafia?
I presented multiple yesterday.
I know we have been treating Jorbles as an IC, but is there any scenario where he actually is mafia?
I presented multiple yesterday.
Why do you guys think there can't be both a scum and town roleblocker?
The thing about the mentor situation was once mail-mi got a chance to post there was no point in quick-lynching him. If he had been rolecop like you thought, all he had to do was say in thread "robz is a mentor" or "oh, you mean that mentor thing? I was just guessing", etc, to get the info to his scumbuddies. It was easy enough to see what you were panicked about just by rereading mail-mi, and I'm wondering if this alarm/secrecy thing may have been a charade, but to what end I'm not sure. Sounding the alarm was not the best approach, -- even if you had managed to lynch mail-mi before he said anything, the issue was out there for anyone to figure out. So I'm surprised Robz and Galzria went that route.
It's true that mentors are supposed to have a kill. But the mods haven't been going by the book here. sudgy lost his power when he lost his captain, and that's different from the wiki, too.
The thing about the mentor situation was once mail-mi got a chance to post there was no point in quick-lynching him. If he had been rolecop like you thought, all he had to do was say in thread "robz is a mentor" or "oh, you mean that mentor thing? I was just guessing", etc, to get the info to his scumbuddies. It was easy enough to see what you were panicked about just by rereading mail-mi, and I'm wondering if this alarm/secrecy thing may have been a charade, but to what end I'm not sure. Sounding the alarm was not the best approach, -- even if you had managed to lynch mail-mi before he said anything, the issue was out there for anyone to figure out. So I'm surprised Robz and Galzria went that route.
It's true that mentors are supposed to have a kill. But the mods haven't been going by the book here. sudgy lost his power when he lost his captain, and that's different from the wiki, too.
What happened? Are you out of shots, jorbles?
Robz I'm interested in your response to my post.
Why do you guys think there can't be both a scum and town roleblocker?
I just don't. Seriously, I really don't think ash and yuma would decide to duplicate a role, isnetad of coming up with something new.
Robz I'm interested in your response to my post.
I gave my response! I didn't actually think we could kill mail-mi without him giving up the mentor thing. Rather, I thought he would give up the mentor thing if threatrneed, thus guaranteeing that we were killing scum.
What happened? Are you out of shots, jorbles?
Yeah, I'm out of shots. I was hoping to draw the night kill. It's possible I still drew scum roleblocks, but I can't verify that I did.
though now that we know Jorbles is out of shots we don't have reason to believe there is another roleblocker besides mail-mi.Why do you guys think there can't be both a scum and town roleblocker?
I just don't. Seriously, I really don't think ash and yuma would decide to duplicate a role, isnetad of coming up with something new.
We should consider all possibilities. Ruling things out like this based on speculation seems like you are trying to dissuade town from a certain line of thought.
Jorbles can you confirm the whole bodyguard thing?
So your not a neighborizer, but a Mentor. Which could very well mean that you are not aligned with us. If you die, galz will too, right?Like... Mentor-Mentee?Galz/Robz, do you have day chat?
Robz, are you able to neighborize someone else to replace Galz? (Not saying you should, just asking if you can)
Yes, we have day chat.
If Galz dies, I must replace him, yes.
Yes.
No, I do not. Robz was only saying that it is -like- Mentor/Mentee in that we have chat at all times - which is what he had said prior to your leaping to other conclusions.
I guess, but that possibility had already been presented in the open, and was refuted in the opening. The whole thing just seems really sketchy.
Jorbles can you confirm the whole bodyguard thing?
He already said he can't.
I guess, but that possibility had already been presented in the open, and was refuted in the opening. The whole thing just seems really sketchy.
What?
It seemed reasonable to hide the double death thing as long as we could. Really, there was just no reason NOT to continue withholding it.
This isn't making sense. It was obvious that was what you were "hiding". Voltgloss and I both figured it out, scum easily could have, too. This is why I asked "why is Robz still alive" D3. And is why Galz is voting you now.
Maybe Robz was trying to get towncred by getting so "worried" about being found out. I had thought Galzria was the one who discovered mail-mi's mentor comment. Learning now that it was Robz is interesting.
This isn't making sense. It was obvious that was what you were "hiding". Voltgloss and I both figured it out, scum easily could have, too. This is why I asked "why is Robz still alive" D3. And is why Galz is voting you now.
Maybe Robz was trying to get towncred by getting so "worried" about being found out. I had thought Galzria was the one who discovered mail-mi's mentor comment. Learning now that it was Robz is interesting.
And yet Voltgloss ALSO found it reasonable that we withhold stating it publicly. This was because it WASN'T obvious, and there WERE people who hadn't figured it out.
I guess, but that possibility had already been presented in the open, and was refuted in the opening. The whole thing just seems really sketchy.
What?
It seemed reasonable to hide the double death thing as long as we could. Really, there was just no reason NOT to continue withholding it.
Oh no I'm not saying that at all. Of course keep it hidden. But what I'm saying is that it seems like part of the reason for keeping the case hidden was to make sure that no one considered the possibility. Which is great and all and I agree, except that mail-mi had already brought up the possibility in thread, so then what was the point of hiding behind a secret case when the thing you guys were worried about had already been brought up in thread?
I can see the point if no one had brought it up, but mail-mi had already brought it up previously.
This isn't making sense. It was obvious that was what you were "hiding". Voltgloss and I both figured it out, scum easily could have, too. This is why I asked "why is Robz still alive" D3. And is why Galz is voting you now.
Yeah but we--I think Galz--dismissed it deliberatelyt when mail-mi brought it up, to keep hiding the double death thing.
I was sort of like, if it's figured out and public so be it, but maybe people are not clued in. But anyway it seemed like mail-mi was clued in, and I thought it was because he was rolecop, thus all that.
Yeah but we--I think Galz--dismissed it deliberatelyt when mail-mi brought it up, to keep hiding the double death thing.
I was sort of like, if it's figured out and public so be it, but maybe people are not clued in. But anyway it seemed like mail-mi was clued in, and I thought it was because he was rolecop, thus all that.
I don't follow this logic. Basically, from your roleclaim, you claimed neighborizer-with-recruiting-power, which Mail-mi responded to by saying "so, basically mentor?"
From Rolecop, he could have gotten "mentor", as well.
Neither one of them implies the shared death power. So why does him suggesting the shared death power make him scummy? It's not like a rolecop would return a description of your role -- it would simply return the name of the role.
Yeah but we--I think Galz--dismissed it deliberatelyt when mail-mi brought it up, to keep hiding the double death thing.
I was sort of like, if it's figured out and public so be it, but maybe people are not clued in. But anyway it seemed like mail-mi was clued in, and I thought it was because he was rolecop, thus all that.
I don't follow this logic. Basically, from your roleclaim, you claimed neighborizer-with-recruiting-power, which Mail-mi responded to by saying "so, basically mentor?"
From Rolecop, he could have gotten "mentor", as well.
Neither one of them implies the shared death power. So why does him suggesting the shared death power make him scummy? It's not like a rolecop would return a description of your role -- it would simply return the name of the role.
Yeah but we--I think Galz--dismissed it deliberatelyt when mail-mi brought it up, to keep hiding the double death thing.
I was sort of like, if it's figured out and public so be it, but maybe people are not clued in. But anyway it seemed like mail-mi was clued in, and I thought it was because he was rolecop, thus all that.
I don't follow this logic. Basically, from your roleclaim, you claimed neighborizer-with-recruiting-power, which Mail-mi responded to by saying "so, basically mentor?"
From Rolecop, he could have gotten "mentor", as well.
Neither one of them implies the shared death power. So why does him suggesting the shared death power make him scummy? It's not like a rolecop would return a description of your role -- it would simply return the name of the role.
Have you read the mentor wiki?
Yeah but we--I think Galz--dismissed it deliberatelyt when mail-mi brought it up, to keep hiding the double death thing.
I was sort of like, if it's figured out and public so be it, but maybe people are not clued in. But anyway it seemed like mail-mi was clued in, and I thought it was because he was rolecop, thus all that.
If the Mentor does have a living Mentee, at Night they or their Mentee can kill someone (unless the Mentor already has a factional kill).
QuoteIf the Mentor does have a living Mentee, at Night they or their Mentee can kill someone (unless the Mentor already has a factional kill).
Interesting
QuoteIf the Mentor does have a living Mentee, at Night they or their Mentee can kill someone (unless the Mentor already has a factional kill).
Interesting
Unless they have been choosing not to kill - which would suggest towniness - the numbers deaths suggests they don't have this power.
Also, if either of them can do it, then Galzria would be included and the mods would be bringing it up in the QT.
BUT, if Robz already has a factional kill b/c he is mafia, then he wouldn't have a mentor kill as well.
Yeah but we--I think Galz--dismissed it deliberatelyt when mail-mi brought it up, to keep hiding the double death thing.
I was sort of like, if it's figured out and public so be it, but maybe people are not clued in. But anyway it seemed like mail-mi was clued in, and I thought it was because he was rolecop, thus all that.
What I'm trying to say is that it doesn't make sense that you would bring it up again unless you knew you were safe - though actually you weren't safe. I was still trying to win at that point, and if I hadn't had a targeting restriction, you would have been dead.
And as I've told Galz many times, I can't refute the case against me that "my power doesn't work the way mentor on the wiki works." My power doesn't work the way mentor on the wiki works, no. This should surprise no one...
My initial thought when Jorbles claimed was that he only had 2 compulsive shots. It makes complete sense with the game setup, in that it starts at 21, and then becomes a "normal" game with normal deadlines on d3, after Jorbles has thinned the crowd a bit. I'd guess that's it, but if he claims he tried to shoot, then I am going to be looking right at Faust.Yup
Mail-mi, you still have your roleblock left, correct?
This ^^. I still think Faust is scum.What happened? Are you out of shots, jorbles?
Yeah, I'm out of shots. I was hoping to draw the night kill. It's possible I still drew scum roleblocks, but I can't verify that I did.
This sucks. Hard.
Dsell is town.
Phone posting.
Not caught up, and I don't have a lot of time (this week is going to be very busy for me but I will do my utmost to stay current today) but it's time for me to claim. I am an odd-night watcher, even-night tracker. N1 I watched Volt, no one targeted him. N2 I tracked Walrus (he actually targeted me), and N3 I again watched Voltgloss. Mail-mi targeted Volt and is lying scum.vote: Dsell I did nothing of the sort. I targeted no one last night, and Dsell-chairs are lying scum partners.
Vote: mail-mi
Sudgy's 3 targets he sent N1 were Sudgy, Voltgloss, Robz
Sudgy's 3 targets he sent N1 were Sudgy, Voltgloss, Robz
Query:
Does this count as targeting Voltgloss?
And, if you guys are going to lynch me for this (which you probably are, you trust Dsell more than you do me) at least lets get one of dsell or chairs up to half of L-1 so EFHW can kill them.
I think it's probably reasonable (from a neutral town pov) to put just about everyone besides ahoppy up to shooting range. Obviously I'd rather not be a target, but I'm willing to have the votes on me.
I haven't thought through this a bunch though, and I agree that we probably should before we decide.
We need a discussion on whether Jorbles and/or Eevee can be scum.
Faust, why do you assume Galzria must be town? I don't think he's even close to an IC, and I still have my suspicions of him, why do you think we can just automatically remove him off of our suspect list?
So, it we have three possible scenarios, right?
A) chairs/Dsell are scum, mail-mi is town
B) mail-mi is scum, chairs/Dsell are town
and maybe
C) scum messed with investigation results
Out of Dsell/chairs, I think Dsell is has the more important role (chairs is running out of targets soon). But mail-mi's role is weaker than either chairs or Dsell. So we should do something like lynch mail-mi, night kill chairs if mail-mi flips town?
By the way, I tried to target Jorbles tonight.
So, it we have three possible scenarios, right?
A) chairs/Dsell are scum, mail-mi is town
B) mail-mi is scum, chairs/Dsell are town
and maybe
C) scum messed with investigation results
Out of Dsell/chairs, I think Dsell is has the more important role (chairs is running out of targets soon). But mail-mi's role is weaker than either chairs or Dsell. So we should do something like lynch mail-mi, night kill chairs if mail-mi flips town?
By the way, I tried to target Jorbles tonight.
It's still totally possible from my POV that chairs is scum.
So, it we have three possible scenarios, right?
A) chairs/Dsell are scum, mail-mi is town
B) mail-mi is scum, chairs/Dsell are town
and maybe
C) scum messed with investigation results
Out of Dsell/chairs, I think Dsell is has the more important role (chairs is running out of targets soon). But mail-mi's role is weaker than either chairs or Dsell. So we should do something like lynch mail-mi, night kill chairs if mail-mi flips town?
By the way, I tried to target Jorbles tonight.
It's still totally possible from my POV that chairs is scum.
I don't think clearing you - a townie - would be good play from scum!chairs at this stage of the game. But yeah, I guess it's technically possible.
I think it's probably reasonable (from a neutral town pov) to put just about everyone besides ahoppy up to shooting range. Obviously I'd rather not be a target, but I'm willing to have the votes on me.
I haven't thought through this a bunch though, and I agree that we probably should before we decide.
Grr. Look, it's not at all. You're all fools if you think EFHW is going to do whatever is in town's best interest. If I get to L-half, she will shoot me for sure, no matter what you tell her, because it advances her the closest toward winning.
I'm going to fight this all day if I have to because it's the worst thing for town, but anyway, if you all deem it the best thing for EFHW to shoot me, well you're making a huge mistake, but what can I do. BUT that's different then saying, "Oh we'll just put everyone to L-half and see what happens." This latter thinking is idiotic. She will shoot me if she can. In fact, give her multiple targets and she may well shoot whoever she thinks is townier. She's going to do whatever she can to reach the 1 and 1 scums scenario in the intro.
I think if we give her exactly one target, she will of course shoot it instead of doing nothing. This will be my vast preference instead of letting her choose--we have nothing to gain from that, and if you include me, it will be me for sure, and town will lose.
vote: mail-mi. I have no reason to disbelieve dsell unless he's a godfather which seems unlikely.vote: chairs
I don't think scum have anything bus drivery as powers for two reasons, 1) it seems too far over the line into bastardy/role madnessy games, and more importantly 2) we've seen no evidence of ituntil now.
There's a few plausible scenarios possible here:Can you help get Dsell up to (L-1)/2 so EFHW can kill him when I flip town?
mail-mi is scum, Dsell is town, chairs is town
mail-mi is scum, Dsell is town, chairs is scum
mail-mi is town, Dsell is scum, chairs is scum
I'm much more inclined to trust Dsell in this as I doubt chairs and Dsell would both stick their necks out just to mislynch mail-mi. It shouldn't be ruled out that chairs is faking a town result on Dsell, even though I don't personally believe it. I am willing to lynch mail-mi when discussion has ceased.
I don't think scum have anything bus drivery as powers for two reasons, 1) it seems too far over the line into bastardy/role madnessy games, and more importantly 2) we've seen no evidence of it until now.
Having efhw shoot me is awful, jorbles will die and it won't narrow the range of suspects at all (well, I guess I'd be removed from it if jorbles shows up dead alongside ahoppy or someone)
I still say we let EFHW decide between TA, chairs, and faust. That seems reasonable to me. (I understand if people want me in that range as well, though.)
Thinking aloud:
Scenario 1: chairs and Dsell confer in their QT, decide Dsell should frame mail-mi and chairs should clear Dsell. chairs hesitates to be the one to start the scam, so delays posting his phony result. Why frame mail-mi now? We don't know how many scum are left, but mafia seem to be in pretty good shape. scum!chairs could credibly clear Dsell without scum!Dsell needing to frame mail-mi, which looks very suspicious. Are they close enough to winning that this move could give them the game? Definitely not. If we mislynch mail-mi, then they are exposed as scum. I shoot one, they shoot Ahoppy (or some other town), the other is lynched tomorrow. They either lose or are down to 1-2 mafia, 2 non-town, and 4 town.
Scenario 2: chairs correctly clears Dsell and Dsell correctly catches mail-mi in the act of killing Voltgloss. chairs isn't sure if he should report his result, and waits to be asked (though he hasn't said that). We have two more confirmed town, one scum and very (improbably?) few people left to be remaining scum.
So if we assume best play, then mail-mi is probably scum. But that may be a big assumption. Is it possible chairs and Dsell could have felt in more danger than they were actually in, leading them to frame mail-mi? Dsell knew he would have to claim today. chairs has gotten a lot of suspicion. But in those cases they should be trying to distance from each other, not tie themselves together in our eyes.
I agree with the others who have said we need to lynch mail-mi b/c that will give us the most information.
vote: Dsell vote: Dsellvote: mail-mi. I have no reason to disbelieve dsell unless he's a godfather which seems unlikely.vote: chairs
Vote: dsell
I still say we let EFHW decide between TA, chairs, and faust. That seems reasonable to me. (I understand if people want me in that range as well, though.)
I would rather put myself out there as a potential EFHW option than Dsell, as I feel his role will be superior to mine at this stage of the game in finding Mafia.
Dsell, in case mail-mi flips scum.
Whoever we think is most likely to be scum.
And Eevee in case EFHW does a good reread of whoever is on the chopping block and decides they are not scum so her shot is not wasted or spent in a way that would be wasted.
I really question faust's choice of Jorbles to target, in case his jailkeeper power still works. We were hoping Jorbles had a shot left - of course, that shot was meant for faust. But it would have helped town more to jailkeep Robz or Voltgloss -- Robz b/c either he is mafia and we want to block him, or he is town and a prime target for scum who could knock out 2 for 1. Jorbles was a potential nk target, but his possible shot last night was pretty important. It seems like faust was just saving himself.
I really question faust's choice of Jorbles to target, in case his jailkeeper power still works. We were hoping Jorbles had a shot left - of course, that shot was meant for faust. But it would have helped town more to jailkeep Robz or Voltgloss -- Robz b/c either he is mafia and we want to block him, or he is town and a prime target for scum who could knock out 2 for 1. Jorbles was a potential nk target, but his possible shot last night was pretty important. It seems like faust was just saving himself.
Well, either he is scum and wants to save himself, or he's town and saving himself from Jorb's vig kill is pretty key. So I don't find this questionable.
I really question faust's choice of Jorbles to target, in case his jailkeeper power still works. We were hoping Jorbles had a shot left - of course, that shot was meant for faust. But it would have helped town more to jailkeep Robz or Voltgloss -- Robz b/c either he is mafia and we want to block him, or he is town and a prime target for scum who could knock out 2 for 1. Jorbles was a potential nk target, but his possible shot last night was pretty important. It seems like faust was just saving himself.
Well, either he is scum and wants to save himself, or he's town and saving himself from Jorb's vig kill is pretty key. So I don't find this questionable.
MXXXI Setup Information
--If players from two or more non-Town factions exist, and are alive in an end-game scenario, a "Happily Ever After Win" will be awarded to those factions only.
Although again, I don't see what incentive EFHW has to shoot Eevee. She can win with Eevee in a 1 and 1 scenario.
Although again, I don't see what incentive EFHW has to shoot Eevee. She can win with Eevee in a 1 and 1 scenario.
I mean in game terms yes, but it at least let's her flex her scum hunting muscles a bit (purportedly what she's in the game for at this point) and it can't hurt us to have her shoot Eevee.
And Robz is right, EFHW is not nearly as dangerous to town at this point as Eevee is. Eevee leaping sides is a much bigger threat than EFHW who can only win if she makes it to a point where there's 3 players left and the other two players are scum and town, and someone decides to hand her the game to deny it to the other side.
If Robz is scum then this mentor claim has really worked out well for him.
I really question faust's choice of Jorbles to target, in case his jailkeeper power still works. We were hoping Jorbles had a shot left - of course, that shot was meant for faust. But it would have helped town more to jailkeep Robz or Voltgloss -- Robz b/c either he is mafia and we want to block him, or he is town and a prime target for scum who could knock out 2 for 1. Jorbles was a potential nk target, but his possible shot last night was pretty important. It seems like faust was just saving himself.
Do you have any reason to believe them over me??vote: Dsell vote: Dsellvote: mail-mi. I have no reason to disbelieve dsell unless he's a godfather which seems unlikely.vote: chairs
Vote: dsell
Use your words, man! Seriously, if you aren't scum, you know two people who are we. We have ZERO reason to take you at your word--convince us. You can explain why everything the two of them have done is scummy; you and you alone have that ability.
Okay, let's do this. I think if mail-mi flips town, Dsell is more suspicious than chairs. And I think as of now, EFHW really has an incentive to shoot mafia.
So vote: Dsell. We need one more for half L-1. Whoever does this, remember to unvote immediately thereafter, so mafia can't pull off some sort of quickhammer.
Two or MORE. Woah. That's not good.
Do you have any reason to believe them over me??vote: Dsell vote: Dsellvote: mail-mi. I have no reason to disbelieve dsell unless he's a godfather which seems unlikely.vote: chairs
Vote: dsell
Use your words, man! Seriously, if you aren't scum, you know two people who are we. We have ZERO reason to take you at your word--convince us. You can explain why everything the two of them have done is scummy; you and you alone have that ability.
who will our alternate target be, in case mail-mi is mafia?
Two or MORE. Woah. That's not good.
I finally did ask the mods, and they say a game with me, a survivor and a mafia would not end there.
who will our alternate target be, in case mail-mi is mafia?
Should be Eevee, yes?
who will our alternate target be, in case mail-mi is mafia?
Should be Eevee, yes?
Agreed. TA is no good target because it might hit Jorbles. Robz is no good target because it kills Galzria. I am no good target because I'm town. Everyone else is IC or close to it, so Eevee is the only one left.
I would much rather have dsell than chairs shot in the case of mail-mi turning up town. There's a scenario where dsell is scum and chairs is town (dsell is a godfather) should mail-mi turn up town. If mail mi turns up town, there's no scenario where dsell is town and chairs is scum.
I would much rather have dsell than chairs shot in the case of mail-mi turning up town. There's a scenario where dsell is scum and chairs is town (dsell is a godfather) should mail-mi turn up town. If mail mi turns up town, there's no scenario where dsell is town and chairs is scum.
but there is - scum!chairs returning a true innocent result for towncred, which is strengthened by Dsell getting a true result on mail-mi. If mail-mi is scum, chairs could still be scum, too.
I would much rather have dsell than chairs shot in the case of mail-mi turning up town. There's a scenario where dsell is scum and chairs is town (dsell is a godfather) should mail-mi turn up town. If mail mi turns up town, there's no scenario where dsell is town and chairs is scum.
but there is - scum!chairs returning a true innocent result for towncred, which is strengthened by Dsell getting a true result on mail-mi. If mail-mi is scum, chairs could still be scum, too.
I would much rather have dsell than chairs shot in the case of mail-mi turning up town. There's a scenario where dsell is scum and chairs is town (dsell is a godfather) should mail-mi turn up town. If mail mi turns up town, there's no scenario where dsell is town and chairs is scum.
but there is - scum!chairs returning a true innocent result for towncred, which is strengthened by Dsell getting a true result on mail-mi. If mail-mi is scum, chairs could still be scum, too.
That's not what I said. What I said is based on mail mi flipping town.
I would much rather have dsell than chairs shot in the case of mail-mi turning up town. There's a scenario where dsell is scum and chairs is town (dsell is a godfather) should mail-mi turn up town. If mail mi turns up town, there's no scenario where dsell is town and chairs is scum.
but there is - scum!chairs returning a true innocent result for towncred, which is strengthened by Dsell getting a true result on mail-mi. If mail-mi is scum, chairs could still be scum, too.
That's not what I said. What I said is based on mail mi flipping town.
sorry, got that wrong then. But we should still keep in mind that mail-mi flipping scum doesn't clear chairs.
I'd rather shoot for mafia than shooting eevee. I think if eevee is a swing vote he would pick working with town
I'd rather shoot for mafia than shooting eevee. I think if eevee is a swing vote he would pick working with town
I'd rather shoot for mafia than shooting eevee. I think if eevee is a swing vote he would pick working with town
You're not listening. The Eevee pick is to give EFHW a non-Dsell option that doesn't hurt town in the event of mail-mi being town. Don't know whether she'll take it, but that's another matter.
Basically, we shouldn't trust EFHW to do the thing that's in town's best interest, so we have to give her targets that she will shoot anyway, that don't hurt us.
Alright, I'm back from V/LA and am still about 3 pages behind. But I have seen the dsell/chairs claims and here's what I think (sorry if I'm repeating people)
We should NOT bring DSell and someone else to EFHW shoot zone because:
we lynch mail-mi, he flips town, she shoots Dsell, good.
We lynch mail-mi he flips scum, she will still shoot Dsell who is now town because it furthers her wincon.
I propose, we lynch mail-mi and bring a third party (faust, not TA because then we lose Jorbles) up to (L-1)/2. This way, we will know tomorrow if chairs and DSell are town, and if they aren't, lynch one, and bring the other up to (L-1)/2.
Also I have a request to make:
Everyone please post the one person they would like to bring up to (L-1)/2. If you had to pick just one, who would it be? I do NOT want to bring 2 people up to (L-1)/2 because then EFHW will do whatever benefits her most, which will be killing another town if we hit scum today.
:( I just saw that EFHW hammered that and faust pushed it there. That makes me more suspicious of faust, but maybe he just hadn't thought it through yet...
Wow, well that just happened too. Whoops. Ok, all caught up. I think at this point, we should just lynch mail-mi. He's had opportunities to prove his innocence, but he hasn't. Sorry I came around late in the conversation. Now that Volt isn't here, I'll try to make more of an effort. Vote: mail-mi
Thanks. I'll try, I just felt Volt was doing such a good job and nobody really commented on anything I would say earlier. But that's OK. I'm here now, I was just behind because I had scattered WiFi for the weekend. I still don't have the time to commit to re-reading this monster though.Wow, well that just happened too. Whoops. Ok, all caught up. I think at this point, we should just lynch mail-mi. He's had opportunities to prove his innocence, but he hasn't. Sorry I came around late in the conversation. Now that Volt isn't here, I'll try to make more of an effort. Vote: mail-mi
It IS important for you to step up now, so thanks for this.
I think that's not clear at all. I mean, I understand I'm better than shooting no one. I do think we should have more faith in our scum reads though, even if mail-mi is scum.who will our alternate target be, in case mail-mi is mafia?
Should be Eevee, yes?
I think we're in lylo by the way. More or less anyway.
11 alive.
Likely 4 scum.
1 SK.
1 Survivor.
5 Town.
If we mislynch here, and scum kill EFHW (and hell, for arguments sake, let's say EFHW can kill scum tonight):
3 Scum
1 Survivor
4 Town
Survivor wins with either faction, and town has no night kill ability. Survivor wins simply by siding with scum in this situation (town can't lynch, and scum can NK).
I am totally fine with being the lynch if EFHW will kill Dsell
I think we're in lylo by the way. More or less anyway.
11 alive.
Likely 4 scum.
1 SK.
1 Survivor.
5 Town.
If we mislynch here, and scum kill EFHW (and hell, for arguments sake, let's say EFHW can kill scum tonight):
3 Scum
1 Survivor
4 Town
Survivor wins with either faction, and town has no night kill ability. Survivor wins simply by siding with scum in this situation (town can't lynch, and scum can NK).
This is why Eevee should be shot (if mail-mi flips town). If he dies, that guarantees us another Day.
I think that's not clear at all. I mean, I understand I'm better than shooting no one. I do think we should have more faith in our scum reads though, even if mail-mi is scum.who will our alternate target be, in case mail-mi is mafia?
Should be Eevee, yes?
I absolutely disagree about giving Dsell town cred for being inactive though. Have you data of him being more active as mafia? If he was being more active, would you persecute him for it?
Shraeye flipping mafia does validate Dsell's claim a bit. It's too bad he got to claim last - had he claimed that earlier, it would have been much more believable.
If mail-mi is town, obviously I will shoot Dsell. But if he is scum, I won't shoot Eevee. So you should give me another target.Who do you think are good targets? If TA is being truthful, killing him kills Jorbles (who I'm sure is town). Killing Robz likely kills Galzria. Faust?
That's no good. It leads into Galzria's scenario and we lose. EFHW, can't you just not shoot if mail-mi flips scum?If mail-mi is town, obviously I will shoot Dsell. But if he is scum, I won't shoot Eevee. So you should give me another target.Who do you think are good targets? If TA is being truthful, killing him kills Jorbles (who I'm sure is town). Killing Robz likely kills Galzria. Faust?
I could not shoot, but in that case I'd want to lynch TA the next day. We have two people tying town's hands by saying they are linked to other players who will die if they are targeted, neither of whom has any evidence supporting them as town.
Says the mentor?I could not shoot, but in that case I'd want to lynch TA the next day. We have two people tying town's hands by saying they are linked to other players who will die if they are targeted, neither of whom has any evidence supporting them as town.
Okay, but we aren't going to do what you want to do, period. Nor should we do what Eevee wants.
I could not shoot, but in that case I'd want to lynch TA the next day. We have two people tying town's hands by saying they are linked to other players who will die if they are targeted, neither of whom has any evidence supporting them as town.
I could not shoot, but in that case I'd want to lynch TA the next day. We have two people tying town's hands by saying they are linked to other players who will die if they are targeted, neither of whom has any evidence supporting them as town.
Okay, but we aren't going to do what you want to do, period. Nor should we do what Eevee wants.
We shouldn't have put anyone in any range except Eevee, but it's too late. EFHW can and will shoot Dsell, probably regardless of whether mail-mi is scum.
What would be the point of getting faust up there? Expanding EFHW's options to play to her win?
I've had opportunities to screw over town already, and I haven't take them. I'm like the only one verifying Jorbles's claim.
I've had opportunities to screw over town already, and I haven't take them. I'm like the only one verifying Jorbles's claim.
I think we're in lylo by the way. More or less anyway.
11 alive.
Likely 4 scum.
1 SK.
1 Survivor.
5 Town.
If we mislynch here, and scum kill EFHW (and hell, for arguments sake, let's say EFHW can kill scum tonight):
3 Scum
1 Survivor
4 Town
Survivor wins with either faction, and town has no night kill ability. Survivor wins simply by siding with scum in this situation (town can't lynch, and scum can NK).
I've had opportunities to screw over town already, and I haven't take them. I'm like the only one verifying Jorbles's claim.
I've had opportunities to screw over town already, and I haven't take them. I'm like the only one verifying Jorbles's claim.
Guys, efhw will not shoot town tonight. It's completely against her interest. She wants mafia gone as much as we do. I'm not saying trust her forever but tonight I think we can trust that she will aim for mafia. Doing otherwise would be working against her personal win condition.
We shouldn't have put anyone in any range except Eevee, but it's too late. EFHW can and will shoot Dsell, probably regardless of whether mail-mi is scum.
What would be the point of getting faust up there? Expanding EFHW's options to play to her win?
Because Faust is likely scum and a better option.
Why are you so against giving efhw a chance to shoot an actual mafia member tonight? Right now, if mail-mi is scum, efhw has no chance at shooting a partner tonight. That needs to change.
We do not have time to lynch four mafia players. We just don't, it's not gonna happen. We need efhw to shoot at least one of them for us. I think it's the only way town can win. I don't like our odds of rolling off four mafia lynches in a row.
True.I've had opportunities to screw over town already, and I haven't take them. I'm like the only one verifying Jorbles's claim.
Sorry, but if you can win with scum or lose with town, then you'll win with scum 100 times out of 100.
True.I've had opportunities to screw over town already, and I haven't take them. I'm like the only one verifying Jorbles's claim.
Sorry, but if you can win with scum or lose with town, then you'll win with scum 100 times out of 100.
If I could win with town 20% of the time and win with scum 60% of the time, I'd try to work with town though. This is such a sucky role!
We shouldn't have put anyone in any range except Eevee, but it's too late. EFHW can and will shoot Dsell, probably regardless of whether mail-mi is scum.
What would be the point of getting faust up there? Expanding EFHW's options to play to her win?
Because Faust is likely scum and a better option.
Why are you so against giving efhw a chance to shoot an actual mafia member tonight? Right now, if mail-mi is scum, efhw has no chance at shooting a partner tonight. That needs to change.
We do not have time to lynch four mafia players. We just don't, it's not gonna happen. We need efhw to shoot at least one of them for us. I think it's the only way town can win. I don't like our odds of rolling off four mafia lynches in a row.
Wait, but is this right? Mail-mi flips scum, do we NEED EFHW to shoot scum? I am actually curious, I don't know. Because if she shoots town, we are basically right into Galz' no-win scenario (via a different route). Can we still win via successful lynches?
I don't care if scum believes me!True.I've had opportunities to screw over town already, and I haven't take them. I'm like the only one verifying Jorbles's claim.
Sorry, but if you can win with scum or lose with town, then you'll win with scum 100 times out of 100.
If I could win with town 20% of the time and win with scum 60% of the time, I'd try to work with town though. This is such a sucky role!
I don't believe you!
If Dsell is proven town, as he would be if mail-mi is scum, it would be suicide for me to shoot him. You would instantly lynch me. So I won't be doing that. The question is what someone said earlier - do we have time to catch all the mafia? Maybe we should lynch TA today, and I'll shoot mail-mi.
If Dsell is proven town, as he would be if mail-mi is scum, it would be suicide for me to shoot him. You would instantly lynch me. So I won't be doing that. The question is what someone said earlier - do we have time to catch all the mafia? Maybe we should lynch TA today, and I'll shoot mail-mi.
The thing is that if you shoot town we don't have TIME to lynch you. Actually, it probably just means a loss for us no matter what we do.
Okay, I DO think we should add either faust or TA to EFHW's kill choices. Assuming mail-mi is scum, we need to give her someone to shoot besides Dsell.
If Dsell is proven town, as he would be if mail-mi is scum, it would be suicide for me to shoot him. You would instantly lynch me. So I won't be doing that. The question is what someone said earlier - do we have time to catch all the mafia? Maybe we should lynch TA today, and I'll shoot mail-mi.No! I am now advocating a Dsell or chairs or a mail-mi lynch. Why me? Because if I get lynched, boom we have caught ourselves 2 scum for the price of one townie.
EFHW is in a sucky position, period. I don't think she can win because it's far more likely for her to shoot scum than town. As such, I think scum are almost certain to kill her tonight.Right. unvote. I think I'll try to pull up a case on Dsell when I have time.
At that point what she does is up to her. In her shoes, even with full selection, I would aim to hit scum on general principle, but it's really her choice. Yes, she can win with scum, but I think she's too much of a threat to them for scum to decide to let her live. They're just as happy to win solo as with her.
That means the absolute best case scenario for us here is that:
We lynch scum, EFHW shoots scum successfully, and scum kill EFHW (It's better for us if they don't, which is exactly why they will).
That leaves tomorrow:
5 Town (Same as now)
2 Scum
1 Survivor
It's still lylo (as pointed to in my earlier post), as a mislynch + NK bring town down to 3, which is equal to scum + Eevee.
Granted, it's anther night of results, but still...
My overall point here is that we need to lynch scum here. And we need EFHW to kill scum (Well, Eevee would be fine as well. That would leave 5 Town, 3 Scum). Anything else results in a loss.
EFHW is in a sucky position, period. I don't think she can win because it's far more likely for her to shoot scum than town. As such, I think scum are almost certain to kill her tonight.
At that point what she does is up to her. In her shoes, even with full selection, I would aim to hit scum on general principle, but it's really her choice. Yes, she can win with scum, but I think she's too much of a threat to them for scum to decide to let her live. They're just as happy to win solo as with her.
EFHW is in a sucky position, period. I don't think she can win because it's far more likely for her to shoot scum than town. As such, I think scum are almost certain to kill her tonight.
At that point what she does is up to her. In her shoes, even with full selection, I would aim to hit scum on general principle, but it's really her choice. Yes, she can win with scum, but I think she's too much of a threat to them for scum to decide to let her live. They're just as happy to win solo as with her.
You're hoping they will kill me, because that means they didn't kill town.
Not caught up, and I don't have a lot of time (this week is going to be very busy for me but I will do my utmost to stay current today) but it's time for me to claim. I am an odd-night watcher, even-night tracker. N1 I watched Volt, no one targeted him. N2 I tracked Walrus (he actually targeted me), and N3 I again watched Voltgloss. Mail-mi targeted Volt and is lying scum.1. Did anyone actually target volt on n1?
Vote: mail-mi
@Robz: If you die Galzria dies, but if Galzria dies you get to pick another player to mentor, correct? I'm trying to engineer a scenario where we can use Robz's mentor ability like a bomb or something. This might not be useful at all, but is it possible to use Galzria's death to our advantage or does it only work in our favour if Galzria is scum (something I'm not certain of, but am considering).No. I would much rather you lunch me than NK me so that you can have confirmation that Dsell is scum earlier than tomorrow.
Other possibilities are: what if we have EFHW NK mail-mi and lynch someone else? (faust or TwistedArcher would probably be my top choices, but Eevee might be a safe decision too.) Also do we trust EFHW enough to NK mail-mi?
Other possibilities are: what if we have EFHW NK mail-mi and lynch someone else? (faust or TwistedArcher would probably be my top choices, but Eevee might be a safe decision too.) Also do we trust EFHW enough to NK mail-mi?
@Robz: If you die Galzria dies, but if Galzria dies you get to pick another player to mentor, correct? I'm trying to engineer a scenario where we can use Robz's mentor ability like a bomb or something. This might not be useful at all, but is it possible to use Galzria's death to our advantage or does it only work in our favour if Galzria is scum (something I'm not certain of, but am considering).No. I would much rather you lunch me than NK me so that you can have confirmation that Dsell is scum earlier than tomorrow.
Other possibilities are: what if we have EFHW NK mail-mi and lynch someone else? (faust or TwistedArcher would probably be my top choices, but Eevee might be a safe decision too.) Also do we trust EFHW enough to NK mail-mi?
@Robz: If you die Galzria dies, but if Galzria dies you get to pick another player to mentor, correct? I'm trying to engineer a scenario where we can use Robz's mentor ability like a bomb or something. This might not be useful at all, but is it possible to use Galzria's death to our advantage or does it only work in our favour if Galzria is scum (something I'm not certain of, but am considering).No. I would much rather you lunch me than NK me so that you can have confirmation that Dsell is scum earlier than tomorrow.
Other possibilities are: what if we have EFHW NK mail-mi and lynch someone else? (faust or TwistedArcher would probably be my top choices, but Eevee might be a safe decision too.) Also do we trust EFHW enough to NK mail-mi?
In fact, if we lynch non-me town today and you decide to make EFHW shoot me, I will use my block on her to prevent us from losing. If we haven't already lost by then.@Robz: If you die Galzria dies, but if Galzria dies you get to pick another player to mentor, correct? I'm trying to engineer a scenario where we can use Robz's mentor ability like a bomb or something. This might not be useful at all, but is it possible to use Galzria's death to our advantage or does it only work in our favour if Galzria is scum (something I'm not certain of, but am considering).No. I would much rather you lunch me than NK me so that you can have confirmation that Dsell is scum earlier than tomorrow.
Other possibilities are: what if we have EFHW NK mail-mi and lynch someone else? (faust or TwistedArcher would probably be my top choices, but Eevee might be a safe decision too.) Also do we trust EFHW enough to NK mail-mi?
@Robz: If you die Galzria dies, but if Galzria dies you get to pick another player to mentor, correct? I'm trying to engineer a scenario where we can use Robz's mentor ability like a bomb or something. This might not be useful at all, but is it possible to use Galzria's death to our advantage or does it only work in our favour if Galzria is scum (something I'm not certain of, but am considering).
Other possibilities are: what if we have EFHW NK mail-mi and lynch someone else? (faust or TwistedArcher would probably be my top choices, but Eevee might be a safe decision too.) Also do we trust EFHW enough to NK mail-mi?
...? No, I am telling the truth.@Robz: If you die Galzria dies, but if Galzria dies you get to pick another player to mentor, correct? I'm trying to engineer a scenario where we can use Robz's mentor ability like a bomb or something. This might not be useful at all, but is it possible to use Galzria's death to our advantage or does it only work in our favour if Galzria is scum (something I'm not certain of, but am considering).No. I would much rather you lunch me than NK me so that you can have confirmation that Dsell is scum earlier than tomorrow.
Other possibilities are: what if we have EFHW NK mail-mi and lynch someone else? (faust or TwistedArcher would probably be my top choices, but Eevee might be a safe decision too.) Also do we trust EFHW enough to NK mail-mi?
bluffing?
Dsell might be a scum roleblocker.Other possibilities are: what if we have EFHW NK mail-mi and lynch someone else? (faust or TwistedArcher would probably be my top choices, but Eevee might be a safe decision too.) Also do we trust EFHW enough to NK mail-mi?
But mail-mi might actually be a scum roleblocker.
@Robz: If you die Galzria dies, but if Galzria dies you get to pick another player to mentor, correct? I'm trying to engineer a scenario where we can use Robz's mentor ability like a bomb or something. This might not be useful at all, but is it possible to use Galzria's death to our advantage or does it only work in our favour if Galzria is scum (something I'm not certain of, but am considering).No. I would much rather you lunch me than NK me so that you can have confirmation that Dsell is scum earlier than tomorrow.
Other possibilities are: what if we have EFHW NK mail-mi and lynch someone else? (faust or TwistedArcher would probably be my top choices, but Eevee might be a safe decision too.) Also do we trust EFHW enough to NK mail-mi?
At least we're on the same page about lynching you today. :)
@Robz: If you die Galzria dies, but if Galzria dies you get to pick another player to mentor, correct? I'm trying to engineer a scenario where we can use Robz's mentor ability like a bomb or something. This might not be useful at all, but is it possible to use Galzria's death to our advantage or does it only work in our favour if Galzria is scum (something I'm not certain of, but am considering).
Other possibilities are: what if we have EFHW NK mail-mi and lynch someone else? (faust or TwistedArcher would probably be my top choices, but Eevee might be a safe decision too.) Also do we trust EFHW enough to NK mail-mi?
Eevee claimed lynchproof. So it has to be TA or me. Out of those, it should be TA of course. But if we NK mail-mi, he could still use his power.
We shouldn't rule out that it's possible that there are actually less scum than we thought. Maybe the mods figured all these roles would end up causing much faster deaths. There were certainly a lot of ways town could accidentally die if we'd played differently. (Compulsive Vig, SK, PGO for certain) Possibly a Mentor as well who basically works like making a player an Unrequited Lover who can talk with people. But that said we should play like tomorrow will probably be LYLO, and hope we're wrong.If I'm town (which I am) do you still want my death?@Robz: If you die Galzria dies, but if Galzria dies you get to pick another player to mentor, correct? I'm trying to engineer a scenario where we can use Robz's mentor ability like a bomb or something. This might not be useful at all, but is it possible to use Galzria's death to our advantage or does it only work in our favour if Galzria is scum (something I'm not certain of, but am considering).No. I would much rather you lunch me than NK me so that you can have confirmation that Dsell is scum earlier than tomorrow.
Other possibilities are: what if we have EFHW NK mail-mi and lynch someone else? (faust or TwistedArcher would probably be my top choices, but Eevee might be a safe decision too.) Also do we trust EFHW enough to NK mail-mi?
At least we're on the same page about lynching you today. :)
I definitely support mail-mi's death, (His attempts to get himself quicklynched make it basically certain in my mind.) but I'm trying to work out a scenario where we have more options. Like if we lynch TA we can avoid my death, but it's not worth it if mail-mi doesn't end up dead.
@Robz: If you die Galzria dies, but if Galzria dies you get to pick another player to mentor, correct? I'm trying to engineer a scenario where we can use Robz's mentor ability like a bomb or something. This might not be useful at all, but is it possible to use Galzria's death to our advantage or does it only work in our favour if Galzria is scum (something I'm not certain of, but am considering).
Other possibilities are: what if we have EFHW NK mail-mi and lynch someone else? (faust or TwistedArcher would probably be my top choices, but Eevee might be a safe decision too.) Also do we trust EFHW enough to NK mail-mi?
Okay, EFHW won't shoot Eevee, she needs another target. And that target shouldn't be me, so it has to be TA. I realize that from town perspective, I am the "safer" kill because there's no danger that it might hit Jorbles. But I think TA is lying, his claim was quite scummy IMO (gives us a reason not to shoot him, which is something scum would want from a fake claim). Also, PoE.
Vote: Twistedarcher
Okay, EFHW won't shoot Eevee, she needs another target. And that target shouldn't be me, so it has to be TA. I realize that from town perspective, I am the "safer" kill because there's no danger that it might hit Jorbles. But I think TA is lying, his claim was quite scummy IMO (gives us a reason not to shoot him, which is something scum would want from a fake claim). Also, PoE.
Vote: Twistedarcher
Okay, well, I'm glad to get this kind of response. It's pretty jumpy, I think. Like TA's claim was quite scummy? Have you ever said that? Of course you're saying that now.
I had assumed that TA was Mitchell from previous posts regarding flavour. There is no indication in my flavour that I am TA's Bodyguard, but that doesn't mean it's not true.
I still don't see a problem with following the plan as is, given TAs claim. It would slow the game down in term of NKs, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. I can see why Dsell may not have claimed for multiple reasons, I think it's worth it for him not to claim to hide what those reasons are for now.
PPE: 6, I see Dsell hiding his role is now moot.
I went back and forth between thinking you definitely have information to there's no way you have information about being bodyguarded.
My final conclusion was that I didn't think you'd have info on being bodyguard AND being something else, and that if you just had information on being a bodyguard, having a bodyguard-bodyguarded pair with no other information seems really, really, silly.
I was expecting you to be a cop or something, though, and not a vig. I was surprised when your claim came up. I definitely thought you were an investigative role that was more likely to die (you could die from 2 targets at night, not just 1).
Did it ever occur to you that maybe you are a positive utility role and Jorbles is scum? Because from what you posted here, it seems you didn't even consider that.
As an exercise:
Could everyone please rate who they think are the most likely scum of faust, TA, Robz, Galzria, chairs, and Eevee? Consider whether they could be a team also, this might rule out some combos.
Well, yesterday there was talk of a watcher/tracker being out there. Wouldn't it have made sense for mail-mi to claim that he had roleblocked voltgloss (even though that wouldn't do anything... so maybe this is dumb) but he actually preformed the kill? Personally, I think if I were scum that would be something that I would do. Except the kill would be someone else, like chairs or I don't know, someone with a role to block. This is making less sense as I type it out... but I think I could get behind a faust lynch (I think as Robz pointed out, that his calling TA's claim scummy is a little fishy, just that whole post in general) and then let EFHW shoot mail-mi. Then tomorrow we can know if we have to kill DSell and/or chairs.
PPE: 3
Faust and TA. Galz is just about as likely to be scum as Jorbles is, I think. Possible but unlikely. Chairs is not scum if mail-mi is, and is scum if mail-mi's not, very likely at least. That's just it.
I don't think 4 more mafia is definite. I hope it's not. I can't even comprehend that being the case. I guess it would have to be like Dsell/chairs/faust/TA
Well, yesterday there was talk of a watcher/tracker being out there. Wouldn't it have made sense for mail-mi to claim that he had roleblocked voltgloss (even though that wouldn't do anything... so maybe this is dumb) but he actually preformed the kill? Personally, I think if I were scum that would be something that I would do. Except the kill would be someone else, like chairs or I don't know, someone with a role to block. This is making less sense as I type it out... but I think I could get behind a faust lynch (I think as Robz pointed out, that his calling TA's claim scummy is a little fishy, just that whole post in general) and then let EFHW shoot mail-mi. Then tomorrow we can know if we have to kill DSell and/or chairs.
PPE: 3
What? I do not follow at all.
Faust and TA. Galz is just about as likely to be scum as Jorbles is, I think. Possible but unlikely. Chairs is not scum if mail-mi is, and is scum if mail-mi's not, very likely at least. That's just it.
I don't think 4 more mafia is definite. I hope it's not. I can't even comprehend that being the case. I guess it would have to be like Dsell/chairs/faust/TA
I haven't seen convincing evidence that Galzria is definitely town. I mean I, like you, have a strong town read on Galzria, but what makes him basically an IC? Is there something in how he's voted, or something I'm forgetting about how he claimed?
Well, yesterday there was talk of a watcher/tracker being out there. Wouldn't it have made sense for mail-mi to claim that he had roleblocked voltgloss (even though that wouldn't do anything... so maybe this is dumb) but he actually preformed the kill? Personally, I think if I were scum that would be something that I would do. Except the kill would be someone else, like chairs or I don't know, someone with a role to block. This is making less sense as I type it out... but I think I could get behind a faust lynch (I think as Robz pointed out, that his calling TA's claim scummy is a little fishy, just that whole post in general) and then let EFHW shoot mail-mi. Then tomorrow we can know if we have to kill DSell and/or chairs.
PPE: 3
What? I do not follow at all.
I think maybe he's thinking of roleblocking like jailkeeping? Something that roleblocks and protects? That's the only way that makes sense to me.
Sorry if you find me scummy for thinking TA is scum, but there's just no way for me not to think that. I already stated the following, but will gladly post it again:Dsell-Faust-chairs scum team.
The only players that can be mafia in my book are:
Dsell, chairs, mail-mi, TA, Robz, Eevee
Now Dsell's claim makes a lot of sense, and chairs clears him. This makes them both likely town (Dsell more likely than chairs). I'm left with:
mail-mi, TA, Robz, Eevee
So basically they all have to be scum, or three scum and a Survivor. But of course Robz is painting me as scummy now simply because I'm using PoE...
Faust and TA. Galz is just about as likely to be scum as Jorbles is, I think. Possible but unlikely. Chairs is not scum if mail-mi is, and is scum if mail-mi's not, very likely at least. That's just it.
I don't think 4 more mafia is definite. I hope it's not. I can't even comprehend that being the case. I guess it would have to be like Dsell/chairs/faust/TA
I haven't seen convincing evidence that Galzria is definitely town. I mean I, like you, have a strong town read on Galzria, but what makes him basically an IC? Is there something in how he's voted, or something I'm forgetting about how he claimed?
To me, he's likely town because he's advocated a bunch of strategies that would get us both killed, that I don't think would make any sense if he were scum. Plus everything else. This is NOT rock solid, but you know you being town isn't rock solid, either.
Oh, Ahoppy, yeah so we really want to kill mail-mi today, rather than at night, if we think he's scum. Because he's probably a scum roleblocker if scum. He could actually stop EFHW from shooting him.Yeah, didn't think of that.
I second the all good. like, are we ready for night already? I'm willing to vote for mailmi.
I second the all good. like, are we ready for night already? I'm willing to vote for mailmi.
Yeah, so am I. I mean there's no way we should actually be rushing like this, but it's exciting and I want to anyway.
I'm okay with lynching mail-mi and going to night, but does Ahoppy have anything he wants to add? Or Galzria?Ninja'd
I just realized, it is going to be very very hard to not bring people to (L-1)/2 tomorrow. So, please, do not vote hastily. If you want to vote, I suggest we use "intend to vote" instead and I can keep an "intend to vote" count. Once we decide who to lynch and who to run up, we can do that. (all assuming EFHW is still alive)
I just realized, it is going to be very very hard to not bring people to (L-1)/2 tomorrow. So, please, do not vote hastily. If you want to vote, I suggest we use "intend to vote" instead and I can keep an "intend to vote" count. Once we decide who to lynch and who to run up, we can do that. (all assuming EFHW is still alive)
Unless of course you are scum. Then by all means do it. Then we shall kill you.I just realized, it is going to be very very hard to not bring people to (L-1)/2 tomorrow. So, please, do not vote hastily. If you want to vote, I suggest we use "intend to vote" instead and I can keep an "intend to vote" count. Once we decide who to lynch and who to run up, we can do that. (all assuming EFHW is still alive)
Absolutely, yes. Everyone understand? NO HASTY VOTING TOMORROW.
Dsell, you might want to edit that a bit. :P
Jorbles, unvote. Remember, no hasty votes. I don't care if he is mafia
Whatever, I'm going to vote for Dsell. Eevee this is your big chance to prove you are protown! Vote: Dsell
What about the bolded part though?Dsell, you might want to edit that a bit. :P
Ah sorry, it's a direct copy-and-paste! Quicker that way. But yeah, that was originally meant for your QT with Robz! We changed the mentee target, but the terms stay the same, and since we are in no danger of being lynched unless you go against us, it might as well be said in the open.
I am disappointed I don't get to see all of your reactions, but we had to get this out there before Eevee tried to take us out!
They should have recruited Eevee. This way Eevee can still win with town.
I couldn't kill Robz - not enough votes. We hung onto Galz too long.
If Eevee sides with us and they spite kill him, town gets to decide if mafia or I should win the game.
The way I'm figuring it, each faction could end up playing kingmaker, depending on the scenario.
I'm not in the mood to explain things to you right now.
Eevee how do you like being taken for granted by these guys? I say let's take them down a notch or two, or three.
Alright, so EFHW, why didn't you shoot? Looks like faust is actually a roleblocker. Hmmm....
faust: please say who you roleblocked last night. I have an idea, but I need you to say if you roleblocked, before EFHW says whether or not she shot.
Whoops, my bad. I meant jailkeeperAlright, so EFHW, why didn't you shoot? Looks like faust is actually a roleblocker. Hmmm....
faust: please say who you roleblocked last night. I have an idea, but I need you to say if you roleblocked, before EFHW says whether or not she shot.
That's cute, to think that I am actually the roleblocker...
Is there a mistake in the vote count or is EFHW really at two votes?
Would the weakest member of the mafia team mind unvoting and being the hammer? Preferably before they have time to run anyone of you to EFHW's target range.
I wish we had more games like this, I don't like the madness in RMM but I love everyone having a small role. This was the most well made game I've ever played. Huge Changs to both mods, you outdid yourself with this game!
yuma, ash: I'm reading the Mod QT. Being jailkept does NOT prevent you from being investigated. There was no discrepancy between faust's claim on Day 3 and chairs' claim on Day 2.
Robz for MVP.
Blargh. Why did I have to roll a weak role? Curse you, Dsell.
CHAIRS WAS TOWN?!?!?!?
EEVEE WHY??!?!?!??
That was really fun. Gg scum, awesome mods.
Mind if I ask what the strategy was for Tunneling on Voltaire so hard? Even in retrospect I don't understand it. It was one of the things that made me suspect you (when before I'd been kinda null on you).
Mind if I ask what the strategy was for Tunneling on Voltaire so hard? Even in retrospect I don't understand it. It was one of the things that made me suspect you (when before I'd been kinda null on you).
This is addressed to Robz.
Mind if I ask what the strategy was for Tunneling on Voltaire so hard? Even in retrospect I don't understand it. It was one of the things that made me suspect you (when before I'd been kinda null on you).
This is addressed to Robz.
Y'all should sign up for toy story now.
Mind if I ask what the strategy was for Tunneling on Voltaire so hard? Even in retrospect I don't understand it. It was one of the things that made me suspect you (when before I'd been kinda null on you).
This is addressed to Robz.
What this game taught me is that I need to get better at convincing others of my reads. Because it turns out I was like soooo right. :P
Also Galz, why the dislike for your own D1 strategy? I mean, I know you couldn't know it was working so well, I couldn't know that, but why the opposition in general? It was why I found you scummy up until shraeye's flip.
I'd claim pgo.
Ash, I think you were overstating Mafias chances. Even though we did well on the lynches, I constantly felt we were so close to going on a string of non-stop mafia deaths.
To me, a normal game has to be balanced. We are counting it for a victory tally spreadsheet, so everybody should have a decent enough chance (though not equal chance) of winning, based primarily on normal mafia strategy rather than some other consideration (like, solving flavor related puzzles, a la eHalcyon).
Now, not all of our "normal" games have kept to this impeccably. I think this game was clearly better balanced than Mafia XIX (which wasn't a really imbalanced game, just a game tilted in a small way toward the scum faction that did indeed win), for what's worth. Really, scum may have been underpowered in this game, considering how close it actually was and the fact that town lost so many strong PRs early.
(To my mind, there are only two games that were billed as normal games but didn't end up balanced enough to deserve to be counted: Blitz2 and Mafia XVIII.)
Anyway, it's clear we need a new categorization system.
I would do this:
Blitz -- Must be normal/previously-approved/minor tweaked setup. Counts for spreadsheet.
Normal -- Must be mafiascum style setup with minor tweaks, examples: Jk++, Pick Your Poison. Counts for spreadsheet.
Invented -- Encapsulates games that strive for balance and come at least close to achieving it, but are role madness in nature. Counts for spreadsheet?
Bastard -- Everything else.
Oh, and within the game, most of the time I was just screaming "bastardly, RMM!" because that was the cool thing to do, not because I had actually carefully considered whether I thought that or not.
You guys were being so smug, it made me really want to take you down, even if I couldn't win. There WAS actually one scenario in which I could have won, which I never would have thought would happen at the beginning of the game.
You guys were being so smug, it made me really want to take you down, even if I couldn't win. There WAS actually one scenario in which I could have won, which I never would have thought would happen at the beginning of the game.
Blargh. Why did I have to roll a weak role? Curse you, Dsell.why what?
CHAIRS WAS TOWN?!?!?!?
EEVEE WHY??!?!?!??
That was really fun. Gg scum, awesome mods.
You guys were being so smug, it made me really want to take you down, even if I couldn't win. There WAS actually one scenario in which I could have won, which I never would have thought would happen at the beginning of the game.
EFHW, if there was any way for us to work together, we would have taken it. But it needed to be 1 mafia + you left to win, and there was just no way to engineer that.
Oh, I totally forgot about my other guesses for the pen. Do I still get those?
Oh, I totally forgot about my other guesses for the pen. Do I still get those?
If you didn't read the answer in the QT, then yes.
Why choose scum? If you had sided with town, would they really have killed you? They needed to get rid of Ahops and EFHW, who were bigger threats.Blargh. Why did I have to roll a weak role? Curse you, Dsell.why what?
CHAIRS WAS TOWN?!?!?!?
EEVEE WHY??!?!?!??
That was really fun. Gg scum, awesome mods.
For whatever it's worth - and now that I have reviewed the whole set of Role PMs - I agree with ash and yuma this was NOT a Role Madness game. Reasonable minds may differ of course.
The ONLY issues on which I disagree with ash/yuma are:
1. Having a "Useless" role (shraeye's Ninja) whose flip, in my opinion, misleadingly implied the existence of an opposing Tracker/Watcher. I do think this is a Bastard element. I am aware that ash and yuma disagree with me on this - or, to be more precise, they disagree on how strong of an "implication" should have been drawn from that flip. That's fine. Again, reasonable minds may differ.
2. The Captain role. If it was intended to reduce swing (like the cross-team Enabler roles), I think its effect was the opposite. I also think both Captain/Captainee should have been told in their PMs that if the Captain dies, the Captainee loses their power.
3. ...I feel like there was a third thing but I can't remember it now. So I guess make that only two things!
#1 above did, I think, have a not insignificant impact on the game, BUT not so great an impact that it would have changed the outcome. #2 I don't think actually mattered at all the way things shook out.
I enjoyed the game. I found it stressful, but the stress of being an IC, not any stress specific to the game. I admit I was initially frustrated when the ninja/tracker resolved but I have since come to accept it as an issue that's never really come up on f:dS before, so it wasn't proper of me to assume that the mods saw it the same way I did.
Thank you, ash. Thank you, yuma.
Why choose scum? If you had sided with town, would they really have killed you? They needed to get rid of Ahops and EFHW, who were bigger threats.Blargh. Why did I have to roll a weak role? Curse you, Dsell.why what?
CHAIRS WAS TOWN?!?!?!?
EEVEE WHY??!?!?!??
That was really fun. Gg scum, awesome mods.
Why choose scum? If you had sided with town, would they really have killed you? They needed to get rid of Ahops and EFHW, who were bigger threats.Blargh. Why did I have to roll a weak role? Curse you, Dsell.why what?
CHAIRS WAS TOWN?!?!?!?
EEVEE WHY??!?!?!??
That was really fun. Gg scum, awesome mods.
We might have killed EFHW over Eevee, but we would have killed Eevee over any other town member. At that point, Eevee and Ahoppy would both be powerless town members, so we might as well kill Eevee for denying us our win.
The tone in our scum QT was that we fully would go through with killing Eevee if he turned us down, though.
Well, I didn't get my second win. Ah well.
Were the secondary wins another way to keep people interested?
I hope you and ash know how much we appreciate you guys running this game, and how much fun we had. This was easily the most fun I've had throughout a game since Mafia XIX. I LOVED my role. Love love loved it. Makes me think we should use unknown-alignment mentor/neighbors more often.
So I was thinking, I think the first big opportunity for town to turn things around was late Day 2. Basically everybody claimed--for not great reasons, I think--but anyway, it was down to like very few non-claimants, and like all of them scum. That was the time to go, hey, why do we know nothing about Dsell/TA? I really thought they were going to get POEd.
Yes, I can only second everyone saying that this was a great game. I had a ton of fun, and I also had the best scum partners one could wish for for my first scum game here. It was really neat also that I managed to fulfill my secondary wincon on the last Day. Oh, and I'm honored to receive the MVP-for-a-Day-medal in my third game here :)
I asked someone to unvote just in case efhw was lynchproof with a vengekill on the hammerer. The fact she didn't seem to even try to fight what was happening made me suspect she had something up her sleeve even more.
I asked someone to unvote just in case efhw was lynchproof with a vengekill on the hammerer. The fact she didn't seem to even try to fight what was happening made me suspect she had something up her sleeve even more.
Once I realized what was going on, I thought claiming Psychiatrist was brilliant, EFHW.
Sorry I figured you out.
Once I realized what was going on, I thought claiming Psychiatrist was brilliant, EFHW.
Sorry I figured you out.
Thanks. And I didn't mind you figuring me out. I felt understood :). I didn't like your case b/c I hate being caught for all the wrong reasons.
Once I realized what was going on, I thought claiming Psychiatrist was brilliant, EFHW.
Sorry I figured you out.
Thanks. And I didn't mind you figuring me out. I felt understood :). I didn't like your case b/c I hate being caught for all the wrong reasons.
Once I realized what was going on, I thought claiming Psychiatrist was brilliant, EFHW.
Sorry I figured you out.
Thanks. And I didn't mind you figuring me out. I felt understood :). I didn't like your case b/c I hate being caught for all the wrong reasons.
Okay, sudgy.
And of course I don't mind "at all" being caught for the right reasons :POnce I realized what was going on, I thought claiming Psychiatrist was brilliant, EFHW.
Sorry I figured you out.
Thanks. And I didn't mind you figuring me out. I felt understood :). I didn't like your case b/c I hate being caught for all the wrong reasons.
Okay, sudgy.
Once I realized what was going on, I thought claiming Psychiatrist was brilliant, EFHW.
Sorry I figured you out.
Thanks. And I didn't mind you figuring me out. I felt understood :). I didn't like your case b/c I hate being caught for all the wrong reasons.
It was funny how Dsell laughed at the idea and said it was such a s t r e t c h, when it was actually true. Or maybe he was doing what he says he does, and trying to mess with you.
Once I realized what was going on, I thought claiming Psychiatrist was brilliant, EFHW.
Sorry I figured you out.
Thanks. And I didn't mind you figuring me out. I felt understood :). I didn't like your case b/c I hate being caught for all the wrong reasons.
Okay, sudgy.
Once I realized what was going on, I thought claiming Psychiatrist was brilliant, EFHW.
Sorry I figured you out.
Thanks. And I didn't mind you figuring me out. I felt understood :). I didn't like your case b/c I hate being caught for all the wrong reasons.
It was funny how Dsell laughed at the idea and said it was such a s t r e t c h, when it was actually true. Or maybe he was doing what he says he does, and trying to mess with you.
Which part did I laugh at? I bought into Volt's case on you immediately, although I forget exactly what I said in thread. I truly was astonished when I saw that you didn't have a buff to your role, but I did have to play it up a little bit. I needed town to be scared of you!
Once I realized what was going on, I thought claiming Psychiatrist was brilliant, EFHW.
Sorry I figured you out.
Thanks. And I didn't mind you figuring me out. I felt understood :). I didn't like your case b/c I hate being caught for all the wrong reasons.
It was funny how Dsell laughed at the idea and said it was such a s t r e t c h, when it was actually true. Or maybe he was doing what he says he does, and trying to mess with you.
Which part did I laugh at? I bought into Volt's case on you immediately, although I forget exactly what I said in thread. I truly was astonished when I saw that you didn't have a buff to your role, but I did have to play it up a little bit. I needed town to be scared of you!
The part about my fake-claiming psychiatrist in the hopes of being counter-claimed.
I was wondering how you score those actually. Do they count as correct lynches, mislynches, or what?
Town lynching the SK is a correct lynch?
Also I believe that Voltgloss far and away eclipsed the previous record for most posts in a normal game (and I think probably all games ever except perhaps for eHal's RMMI someone might have had more) with 800 (some were before the game, some where after, but close to that number) the previous high was 515 by Robz in MXIX.