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[WalrusMcFishSr]

I did not mean to say I dislike the length of your posts or your playstyle!
It's the content, I can't quite put my finger on it but somehow I feel you are making a lot of effort to sound townie and interested in helping town.

Fair enough. Are you sure it's not my infectious optimistic attitude??? :D:D

I was curious about lio as well...

[Eevee]

Also, any guesses as to why lio switched out?

Switched out what?

got replaced by jorbles.

[Archetype]

.

Please note, Jorbles has replaced liopoil.
[/b]

[Robz888]

Oh. Well, he's pobably just busy. This game is a massive undertaking.

[mail-mi]

Wow. that's a heck of a day end. In it, I saw Voltaire say this:

Volt, make the call for if I should jump. But remember this happened. I think EFHW is scum. I still want a town quickhammer.

Always, always sheeping up to the IC. He did it constantly D1. Is there anything to make of this? I think so.

[Voltaire]

TA gets some townpoints for being shraeye's most active lynch too, I think. (D1 bussing is much likelier in this huge game though). Galz may get scumpoints because shraeye is quick to take the town opinion about the claim, and implies he thinks xeiron scummy for considering ways Galz could be scum. That's a small number of scumpoints if any, though.

We do have a huge number of flips already, which is quite nice.

[Voltaire]

I agree with Voltgloss. He should not steer things. An IC steering thing takes away decisions from players, and decisions are how we analyze who's scum. Saying "tell me who I should consider voting for!" not only lowers the odds but also causes scum players to disguise their votes more easily.

His second time suggesting that people just wait for Voltgloss to steer us.  It's a perfect cover for scum who aren't sure which direction to go and want some built-in excuses for whatever way they go.  Suggestions like these make me surer of my vote on Voltaire.  I think other people need to give him a serious look.

Hey guys, scum made this argument against me. FtotheYI.

Shraeye famously doesn't give reads lists, which makes this tricky. But there was this post

I'd be super cool with voting Voltaire, liopoil, Twisted, faust.  FoS on Walrus and sudgy.  Other people I've probably mentioned along the way.

[Voltaire]

Archetype - But there's very little here. Virtually no reads/stances etc. But nothing bad, I guess either.

• EFHW - Very little here. I can bias myself to read his posts as scum easily positioning on various wagons, or town who does not have strong convictions. But I could be very happy with a vote here.
  

EFHW's not a he.  But what I mean to say about these quotes is that these are exactly the people I'm the most worried about.  Don't remember much, they did this and that, no arguments that stick out or ruffle feathers.

EFHW hedgily agrees with me here, but maybe not about these specific players?[/list]

[Voltaire]

Archetype - But there's very little here. Virtually no reads/stances etc. But nothing bad, I guess either.

• EFHW - Very little here. I can bias myself to read his posts as scum easily positioning on various wagons, or town who does not have strong convictions. But I could be very happy with a vote here.
  

EFHW's not a he.  But what I mean to say about these quotes is that these are exactly the people I'm the most worried about.  Don't remember much, they did this and that, no arguments that stick out or ruffle feathers.

EFHW hedgily agrees with me here, but maybe not about these specific players?[/list]

shraeye, I mean.

[Voltaire]

He thought mail-mi and chairs were town because of their argument about mail-mi's "slip".

[Robz888]

I agree with Voltgloss. He should not steer things. An IC steering thing takes away decisions from players, and decisions are how we analyze who's scum. Saying "tell me who I should consider voting for!" not only lowers the odds but also causes scum players to disguise their votes more easily.

His second time suggesting that people just wait for Voltgloss to steer us.  It's a perfect cover for scum who aren't sure which direction to go and want some built-in excuses for whatever way they go.  Suggestions like these make me surer of my vote on Voltaire.  I think other people need to give him a serious look.

Hey guys, scum made this argument against me. FtotheYI.

Shraeye famously doesn't give reads lists, which makes this tricky. But there was this post

I'd be super cool with voting Voltaire, liopoil, Twisted, faust.  FoS on Walrus and sudgy.  Other people I've probably mentioned along the way.

But as you yourself said, just because scum said something doesn't mean it's wrong, because you say there are two scum factions.

[Voltaire]

So, he very well could be scum (after all, he IS lurking and mcmc DOES lurk more as scum, and #5 isn't nothing), but most of your case is bad and making large stretches, and looks like you are trying to make it look better than it really is. FoS: EFHW

This argument frustrates me.  "you made a case with stretches on day1! must be scum!"  Cases will always contain stretches expecially day1 cases, because people just don't come out and say that thye're scum.  This is just how scumhunting works, you read what is available, and try to fill in a subtext.  I really really dislike people FoSing others who are trying to do regular-stuff scumhunting.  So reverse-FOS:liopoil

Shraeye defends EFHW here. I'm totally cool with vote: EFHW (this is the icing on the scummy EFHW cake for me right now).

[Voltaire]

But as you yourself said, just because scum said something doesn't mean it's wrong, because you say there are two scum factions.

I never said that. I said it's a possibility. It's worth noting shraeye flipped mafia. We have absolutely no evidence for multiple scum factions except for two kills (and the size of the game) and there are tons of other explanations for an extra death too.

[Dsell]

So I am actually more suspicious of the people who made cases on shraeye day 1. To me (pending a re-read) he was really not seeming very scummy at all, so while I understand that people could have different reads from me, I know that scum want to push each other very early, just not to the point of lynching. So because of that, scumpoints to Voltaire, TA, and Faust at least. I'm not convinced there was anything scummy with shraeye's play and I would not be surprised to find one or more of these "cases" were just heavy distancing.

[mail-mi]

I went to go reread the last day Voltaire was alive in WWTWDP, which, by the way, that whole game has the same number of pages as this D1. He has the same posting frequency, shorter posts (like here) and with his constant sheeping to the IC (Which he was semi-doing in WWTWDP when Me and Robz were considered such) vote: voltaire

[Dsell]

Robz' suggestion that Voltaire is an opposite faction of scum from shraeye is quite interesting, though I actually think he could be either opposite scum or a teammate.

[Voltaire]

Shraeye disappeared after pushing lio, so I'm actually already done with this re-read.

Found this big reads post too. I've added his other reads so this is more complete.

unvote

sudgy - on reread, I see more than I recalled.  not a good lynch for today, will reassess in the future.
EFHW - I strongly disagree with her 'lynch Galz because he's probably enabling scum' stance; she's the first to look back at mcmc and try to assesss thigns.  Also, I'm unclear on your 'reread of chairs'.  Could you explain more what you're saying about his game so far?  But FoS on the people who say she's not scumhunting (i think nkirbit falls into this category.  I think she's put in a lot of work over teh last two days, getting ready for deadline/day-end.  protown.
chairs - i stand by my assessment of chairs v. mailmi as town v. town.  i'm against this lynch.
liopoil - first to dive into secondary win-con.  i disagree with 'getting it out of the way'.  just ignore it, and focus on the game, which will be tough enough with our large numbers.  wordy explanation that basically adds nothing new to the Galz-discussion, behind which he hides his vote; that be scummy.  says that we shouldn't think too much of the lurking arguments, but IS interested in lynching mcmcs for lurking.  I don't like this stance at all.  Hiding behind Voltgloss's list; trying to attack EFHW's day1 case for 'stretching'.  scummy scummy. 
Eevee - nothing stands out.  He agreed with me early, had a townread on somebody else early.  despite townreads he's gaining, he's not supporting those players too much it seems.  Really, he seems the most to be the 'leaf in the wind' follow where sentiments go character.  A topic comes up, and Eevee says his opinion.  Then he puts it behind him.  He's just not moving the game forward, and is only following along.
Robz - being loud, being frustrated, but I can't tell to what end.  It just looks like loud for loud's sake, and I don't like htat.  being against claiming is cool; I'm against claiming.  But you don't have to yell it all the frekin' time.  Interaction with Voltgloss's thoughts posts is reasonable.  Robz doen'st immediately sheep; sometimes agrees sometimes disagrees.  I see some pros and cons to overall Robz, could be swayed but not loving it.
Walrus - newbies are harder for me to read, i can see some good contributions, a few jokes, and some more empty comments.  Suspicious, but not enough to want his lynch day1.  he's shown enough thought to warrent day1 newbie pass by me.


vote: liopoil

mail-mi - town (chairs argument)
chairs - town (mail-mi argument)
TA - scum (first case)
Voltaire - scum (manufactured reads)
Galz - towny (pro-town gambit)
faust - scummy (agreed with Voltaire)

As far as I can tell, shraeye never expressed reads on the following players: Mcmcsalot, ahoppy, Archetype, nkirbit, Dsell, bocaJ, xeiron.

[Dsell]

In my opinion you can tell much less from his "reads"on people and much more from the types of interactions he had, but it's not a perfect science either way. I guess it doesn't hurt to look there, Voltaire, as long as you don't stop there.

I am on mobile right now but I'm going to try to look at things in the next 24 hours.

[Galzria]

EFHW is not scum.

Vote: Voltaire

I would also vote Eevee, possibly TA at this point.

[Voltaire]

EFHW is not scum.

Is that a read, or a claim?

[EFHW]

EFHW is not scum.

Vote: Voltaire

I would also vote Eevee, possibly TA at this point.

. 

I agree with Galzria, actually about all 4 of the people he mentions Vote: Voltaire.  It's late, so I'll be back tomorrow.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 2.2:

Walrus (1): Archetype
Voltaire (4): Robz888, mail-mi, Galzria, EFHW
EFHW (1): Voltaire

Not Voting (11): Eevee, Voltgloss, chairs, Twistedarcher, sudgy, WalrusMcFishSr, ahoppy, Dsell, bocaJ, Faust, Jorbles

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

Please note, Jorbles has replaced liopoil.

Day 2 ends on October 6th at 9:30 p.m.



Will Dede be at Haley's Party?

Invite Dede (2): Twistedarcher, Archetype
Not Invite Dede (1): Walrus

Not Voting (14): Eevee, Robz888, Voltgloss, mail-mi, chairs, Galzria, Voltaire, sudgy, EFHW, ahoppy, Dsell, bocaJ, Faust, Jorbles

[Galzria]

Votes on EFHW leading up to deadline:

Voltgloss
Voltaire
mcmc
liopoil
TA

With the exception of mcmc, who was voting to save himself as much as anything else at that point, the people on EFHW were the same people on mcmc. If EFHW were scum, it stands to reason that her scummates would not all of a sudden, out of nowhere, throw a whole lot of weight her way as a snap decision at deadline. Not to... save mcmc, the townie.

So, either you buy that the entire list above is town, who altogether collectively lynched town, OR, you accept that EFHW is likely town herself.

Further, EFHW was one of the few people who actively supported me in the theory that "IF I enable scum, town wants me dead ASAP". If she is Shraeye's partner, in what universe does that make any sense whatsover? Why in the world would she sit there pushing MY lynch, post claim, knowing full well that it would strip her team of a power? What does she gain from it? Town!cred? Not really....

If she's Shraeye's partner, then lynching me would've been absolutely wrong. There's no way she forsee's Shraeye's death, and certainly can't make some grand, master plan about it on the fly midday.

So from where I'm standing: EFHW is town. No other way about it.

[Jorbles]

Hey guys! I'm happy to be playing, I'm only sort of caught up. I don't actually know why liopoil switched out, but I assume it was because he was busy. I'm glad I/liopoil wasn't lynched I guess, I would have considered lynching me/liopoil to be honest when I was just observing (I couldn't read liopoil, which I figured was a good enough d1 lynch), but I thought mcmc was a good lynch too (mostly for lurking).

That said I don't have time to do a thorough read right now, I just wanted to pop in and say hi. I will catch up tomorrow, when I've got a bit of time.

[bocaJ]

Thoughts on Potential Scum Candidates/Town Candidates based on notes I took:

Scum Feel:

Voltaire: Obviously, there was a long back and forth between Galz and Voltaire, with Voltaire being accused of sheeping to IC targets. I actually thought Galz laid out some fairly convincing evidence of this in his mega-post in reply 1234. Additionally, I felt that post 1157 was somewhat WIFOM on Voltaire’s part. Finally, I think that Voltaire has been a little to obsessed with defending himself. Defending oneself is not inherently scummy, but Voltaire seems to have crossed the line from reasonable defending self to overly defending self. Moderate scum read.

Lio: Switching his vote from EFHW to Ahoppy at the last minute at post 1449, then claiming that the EFHW lynch was not happening, despite EFHW being tied for the lead in vote count. On top of that, if you’re worried about lynch viability, why change to a target that has only one other vote? He did switch back when called on it. When I first read this, I gave it a very high scum read, though now I give it more of a moderate read. Also, Lio made several posts claiming that he thinks this is a mislynch, which really sounds like pandering for town cred. Strong scum read. Also, if scum, it would also implicate EFHW (moving vote away from scum-buddies?).

Robz: Got REALLY scummy at the end. Demanded that Lio self-claim against the request of the IC (post 1506); requests doctor protection based on old post from Galz. Why? If anything, Galz’ post sounded accusatory (saying Robz should be investigated). Moreover, Galz was only saying that investigation would be necessary if he was lynched. This seemed like an attempt to waste doctor protection.

Neutral:

Galz: The opposite option of Voltaire. As pointed out by others, he is tunneling/obsessing over Voltaire, maybe a little scummy? Also, he jumped off of EFHW along with Lio right as EFHW was becoming a potentially viable lynch candidate. However, I believed his earlier PR claim, and continue to believe it, particularly after learning that there is a scum-enabled roles that might fit.

Town Feel:

Eevee: Looking through my notes, I had him as a scum-feel, but that was mostly because I thought he was covering for kirbit. Since I was wrong about that, I should reverse my scum-feel to town feel.

I’m pretty torn between Lio and Robz for my vote.

PPE: Getting less of a scum feel on Voltaire; more on Robz, so vote: Robz888

Also vote: Invite Dede