I apologize to all for my absence. I said the other night that I would post when I got home after work, but unfortunately I was held late waiting for a Press Release, and when I got home I had to grab my stuff and rush off to the airport (spent Saturday/Sunday/Monday with Father). He doesn't have a strong enough reception to access the internet from my phone at his house, nor does he use a computer for internet (My god... I don't know how he lives. It was KILLING me to be in a black-whole for 3 days!). The message that was sent to Volt yesterday was sent by my Girlfriend on my behalf. She's been more or less keeping me up to date on the goings on here (though I cannot convince her to play!
). I didn't arrive home until about 3:15 am this morning and went straight to bed. However, I'll be home all of today, and much of tomorrow, so I'll be around some more.
Now, on to the good stuff!
My god are you guys helpless without me! I've never seen so much posting that basically reads "Just waiting... can't do anything else..." - Seriously. I don't know how said it, but unless Pops and I are BOTH Mafia (We're not. I would have to be Mafia for that to be true) there are at LEAST 2 other Mafia out there. I'm appreciative of Robz coming back and trying to get conversation started again on other fronts. But for now, I'm going to stay focused on Pops, because I do think he is the most likely Mafia player in our midst. I've posted my argument in here, but before I post it I'm going through and editing / rearranging to include newer things since my absence, and to make it a little more coherent.
Before I begin, what does a Mafia post look like? What sort of "accusations" do they make to further their case and push a wagon?
From M-II, D1, Robz (Mafia) in response to Morgrim7 (Town):
That said, I claim to be a villager.
Surely you can muster a better defense than "I claim to be a villager." You meant to say, "I am a villager."
From M-IV, D1, Pops (?) in response to Axxle1 (Town):
"If I flip town" can be simplified to "if I flip" or "if I'm lynched", when the person speaking is town. Sometimes these little Freudian things turn out well, sometimes they don't. But like the bonus points here.
From M-IV, D2, Pops (?) in response to Axxle2 (?):
Axxle 2 is one of the scummiest players itt.
I try to contribute and I'm scum. People can be doing other things than just waiting for Galz to post.
Scum try to contribute. Townies contribute.
To begin with, there are a few key crimes I would like to center in on Pops for:
#1: Stop right there! That's a foul!:
Referee is a brand of IIoA which is already a little black book tell. So.
Wait! Before I continue, I would like to point out that Pops rarely EVER quotes. His posts are VERY hard to read out of the context of the conversation happening around them. This is a blunting tactic used to make it harder to go back and make a strong case against him, because you can't always tell to whom he was referring, or why. So I'll do my best here to provide some context (as best I'm able), so that you don't get lost.
The above quote speaks for itself however. It's something he loves to claim others are doing (he used it as the backbone to his case on Axxle), but indeed is something Pops himself has subtly (at times) tried to do himself. Here's a sampling of Pops telling everybody else how to play. Again, most without context (as he was sure not to provide any):
SFS is such a cute poster. Why did the public at large need to know how many shots you had, SFS? Did you think about it? Sigh.
pairings without flips are dumb.
Rolefishing behavior is incredibly anti-town, even if it rarely is a useful scumtell.
Everyone stop it.
Vote: Galzria
SK-hunting is one of the strongest little black book tells. In absence of much else, this is my number one suspicion. In particular the preoccupation with NKs suggests Galzria is able to kill at night.
Jo stop voting Robz you're being an idjit.
Galzria, the issue with town gambits is that you're lying. You either lied then or are lying now, because you didn't believe in your Robz case. That triggers a broad range of psychological effects that read scummily. So you're left with no one to blame but yourself if you get lynched - you've essentially sent yourself a scum pm instead of a town one and then played the game.
Don't do it again.
Lynch mafia, not scum :/
lynch mafia not scum.
I just don't see Joth being scum. If Glooble is town he probably knows his twin and joth is town too. If glooble is scum with joth I doubt he claims twinnage because it could come out wrong. Glooble isn't a terrible lynch but his posting has improved quite a bit today. I'd rather lynch Axxle2 or Galz.
@frisk - lynch mafia, not scum.
I finish with those two last because it's something that's been said in almost every Mafia thread to date. It's good play, right? I mean, who cares about how scummy somebody plays, as long as we lynch Mafia, not Scum. The problem is, the way Pops uses this is as a defense. He's basically saying "Yes, I'm playing like scum. Scummy scum. Scummiest scum. But it's ok, because as long as you don't lynch me, we'll be good!"
"Lynch Mafia, Not Scum" is not a defense. It's an excuse. It's an excuse to play any way you wish, and not have to justify it. There is VERY little
Scummier than that. Furthermore, when called out on his Referee behavior, and the use of his "little black book" to call foul or get tells on everybody, he came up with this beauty of a hedge:
The tells don't always work. A fullhouse doesn't always win. Just makes good odds.
When it's pointed out that the above quote is absolutely NOTHING but hedge, Pops goes for broke:
Idk what hedging is you folk will have to explain it to me. I've never heard of it before so I can't own or disown the behavior.
Anybody here who believes this deserves to lose this game. Seriously. "Mr. Mafia" himself claiming to have never heard of "hedging your bets"... I just... I don't even... wow. I spent like, 5 minutes laughing my ass off over this. Anyway, back on point. An example:
Q: "Hey Pops, how come your little black book gave you such strong Mafia tells on Townie Axxle1?"
A: "The tells don't always work. A fullhouse doesn't always win. Just makes good odds."
Q: "Hey Pops, how come your little black book gave you such strong Mafia tells on Townie Galzria?"
A: "The tells don't always work. A fullhouse doesn't always win. Just makes good odds."
Q: "Hey Pops, how come..."
A: "The tells don't always work. A fullhouse doesn't always win. Just makes good odds."
Moving on.
#2: Why won't this vote STICK!?!?:
Robz likes to claim that my votes are all over the place. It's true, I vote more than he does. But I always provide a reason for my votes. I always make a case. For example, D1 I voted for Axxle, Jotheonah, Pops, and then Axxle again. D2, I voted for Jotheonah, and Robz. In all, I've voted for 4 people - 3 of which were sincere (Not counting troll votes during trolling times... ah, those were happy times). I agree with Robz that excessive voting is bad. I'm not QUITE as stringent as he is, but I do try to restrain myself. Pops on the other hand...:
If anyone places an upvote they shouldn't remove it (it's like editting a post).
I upvoted Green Opal because I find woodwork lurkers amusing, so there's your explanation.
No-lynching is only a good strategy if there is some reason to believe that dramatically more information will be available on later days. In a closed setup, there's no reason to believe that.
Vote: jotheonah
Humor is, actually antitown. It's distracting and it's not analysis. It's not necessarily scummy though, it often denotes a certain levity a townie can feel that a nervous mafiate will not.
I'm voting jotheonah because he seems to be letting his opportunity to make a joke distract him from doing any scumhunting. Also, this particular joke, calling oneself scum, has a delicious irony as scum but matching value as town and thus is slightly more likely to be made by scum.
Someone had a particularly hideous IIoA post, I think it was joth but I'm lazy and not sure.
Power roles are supposed to claim when they are at L-1, a nonvoting player has indicated willingness to hammer, and no one has taken the chance to back down. Then the player claims a power role or VT.
unvote, vote Insomniac
SFS is a professional poker player. Since he is A) town and B) good at reading people we should all just copy him.
unvote, vote Robz
vote: glooble for now.
I very much disagree with his opinion of Tables. Though maybe that means I should vote Tables.
Theorel, all my votes this game have been serious, except for my vote where I pretended to copy SFS, that was a trollvote.
This vote is serious.
Vote: Axxle
His posting has read like a referee and not like a player.
(Bolded last sentence is my own emphasis, to tie into my first point, and because of the pure delicious irony of it)
Vote Captain Frisk
He's also one of my weaker townreads. PoE.
Vote: Galzria
SK-hunting is one of the strongest little black book tells. In absence of much else, this is my number one suspicion. In particular the preoccupation with NKs suggests Galzria is able to kill at night.
Jo stop voting Robz you're being an idjit.
Whew. 7 people voted for so far, 2 of which are confirmed town (Insomniac and Axxle1). I havn't even listed the posts of his made throughout the day (and there are a number) that read as such:
Axxle 2 is one of the scummiest players itt.
Eventually, one of those votes will stick. (One did D1 at least). Pops is fishing for bandwagons. He doesn't care who gets lynched, he just wants to see SOMEBODY get lynched. You know who would make a *great* candidate? Galzria. Here's the problem. He knows I'm town. He also knows that my setting up the 1v1 with him means that if I get lynched he IS the most likely target D3. I mean honestly, can you give me a SINGLE good reason he wouldn't want to vote me right now? My gambit arguable makes me the most suspicious for "lying", right? He was certainly quick to point it out and pound away at that drum... except now, well, he has some magic case against Axxle2 that makes HIM more suspicious than me!
I just don't see Joth being scum. If Glooble is town he probably knows his twin and joth is town too. If glooble is scum with joth I doubt he claims twinnage because it could come out wrong. Glooble isn't a terrible lynch but his posting has improved quite a bit today. I'd rather lynch Axxle2 or Galz.
Frisk - Yessir, that's a first choice and a second choice.
Pops would rather not lynch me today now because he KNOWS I'll come up town, and he knows exactly how that'll make him look. He'll claim this next sentence is survivalist (a Mafia tell in his little black book, btw), but I don't MIND being lynched today. When I played for the gambit it was with the thought that if my death brings down a Mafia, that's a damn good trade off. If I can get that Mafia lynched WITHOUT my death, well hell - of course that's better. But if push comes to shove, I don't mind being lynched to vindicate myself and hang the lamp of doom over Pops.
#3: Accountability:
This is arguably the least important of the 3 points, but if you willfully play to add little value to the game, you deserve to get lynched. This is a behavior thing, and unlike above, is a "I don't like the way they've played" argument more than anything else. He has admitted to being capable of playing better. Saying more. Adding more discussion to the conversation. Every time he's questioned about it though, he just turns the other way. "I didn't want the lurkers to get bogged down, so I've only been posting 1 liners"
Playing sub-optimally never helps the town. Ever. Holding back, or being obscure for no reason, causing suspicion and stirring the pot just to "see what happens" without giving a reason or following up with your radical claims do nothing useful. All it does is make it harder for the town to actually get decent reads. If this is town play, it's not town play I want in my town. If it's Mafia play, well then it's excusable - but still not wanted in my town.
In all, the evidence I believe adds up to Pops being Mafia (no sir, not scum, but Mafia). I'm willing to risk my neck to prove it, but I have no reservations in casting my
Vote: Popsofctown at this time.