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[Kuildeous]

As much fun as it is to keep a long topic going, I was trying to search for a video I posted in the Random Stuff II thread, but showing all 230 pages kept choking my browser. So it's clearly gone on too far.

My random observation: When I write the date range of this work week in American format, I write it as 1/4-1/8. My mind really wants to correct the range to 1/8-1/4. It kind of drives me nuts. It'll be better when this week is over. While 1/11-1/15 would also be mathematically improper to write as a range, I don't see those fractions as often, so my brain doesn't try to fix it.

[Infthitbox]

My random observation: When I write the date range of this work week in American format, I write it as 1/4-1/8. My mind really wants to correct the range to 1/8-1/4. It kind of drives me nuts. It'll be better when this week is over. While 1/11-1/15 would also be mathematically improper to write as a range, I don't see those fractions as often, so my brain doesn't try to fix it.

You just need to free your mind from needless orderings; 1/4 - 1/8 expresses the same range as 1/8 - 1/4. The fact that we seem to always order from lowest to highest is an arbitrary construction.

[Witherweaver]

As much fun as it is to keep a long topic going, I was trying to search for a video I posted in the Random Stuff II thread, but showing all 230 pages kept choking my browser. So it's clearly gone on too far.

My random observation: When I write the date range of this work week in American format, I write it as 1/4-1/8. My mind really wants to correct the range to 1/8-1/4. It kind of drives me nuts. It'll be better when this week is over. While 1/11-1/15 would also be mathematically improper to write as a range, I don't see those fractions as often, so my brain doesn't try to fix it.

See, it should really be an en-dash, 1/4--1/8.  Otherwise it's indistinguishable from 1/4-1/8 = 1/8. 

Also, why do you want 1/8--1/4 over 1/4--1/8? 

Edit: Oh, I see, because you want [a,b] with a < b. 

[Kuildeous]

I also sometimes look at that date range and think, "Yep, the answer is 1/8."

A dash would be more appropriate, but for quick-and-dirty ranges, I just use a hyphen.

[Witherweaver]

I also sometimes look at that date range and think, "Yep, the answer is 1/8."

A dash would be more appropriate, but for quick-and-dirty ranges, I just use a hyphen.

And a community of typesetters quietly screams in agony. 

Really, I much prefer to say Jan 1--Jan 8.  I hate that the default of spreadsheets is to adopt an mm/dd/yy (or even dd/mm/yy) representation to display dates.

[Infthitbox]

I also sometimes look at that date range and think, "Yep, the answer is 1/8."

A dash would be more appropriate, but for quick-and-dirty ranges, I just use a hyphen.

And a community of typesetters quietly screams in agony. 

Really, I much prefer to say Jan 1--Jan 8.  I hate that the default of spreadsheets is to adopt an mm/dd/yy (or even dd/mm/yy) representation to display dates.

Personally, my preferred format is 1 Jan - 8 Jan, but people here in the United States don't really feel it. I still use it when writing checks (lol, still a thing even in 2016) and signing paperwork. I don't tend to use it otherwise.

[Witherweaver]

I also sometimes look at that date range and think, "Yep, the answer is 1/8."

A dash would be more appropriate, but for quick-and-dirty ranges, I just use a hyphen.

And a community of typesetters quietly screams in agony. 

Really, I much prefer to say Jan 1--Jan 8.  I hate that the default of spreadsheets is to adopt an mm/dd/yy (or even dd/mm/yy) representation to display dates.

Personally, my preferred format is 1 Jan - 8 Jan, but people here in the United States don't really feel it. I still use it when writing checks (lol, still a thing even in 2016) and signing paperwork. I don't tend to use it otherwise.

I'm fine with either.  '8 Jan' and 'Jan 8' are equivalent for me to read, and obviously much better than '8/1' vs '1/8'.

[Kirian]

I also sometimes look at that date range and think, "Yep, the answer is 1/8."

A dash would be more appropriate, but for quick-and-dirty ranges, I just use a hyphen.

And a community of typesetters quietly screams in agony. 

Really, I much prefer to say Jan 1--Jan 8.  I hate that the default of spreadsheets is to adopt an mm/dd/yy (or even dd/mm/yy) representation to display dates.

Personally, my preferred format is 1 Jan - 8 Jan, but people here in the United States don't really feel it. I still use it when writing checks (lol, still a thing even in 2016) and signing paperwork. I don't tend to use it otherwise.

I use the 01 Jan 2016 format for just about everything even here in the US.  Haters gonna hate, but there are only three correct date formats:

01 January 2016
01 Jan 2016, for when you don't have enough space
20160101

Unix date is "correct" but rarely actually displayed because it's only readable by the computer.

[enfynet]

My favorite, usually seen on my employees request sheet, looks something like this:

M/D1-D2/Y

This was exciting to figure out during Q4 a few years ago.

[Kuildeous]

'8 Jan' and 'Jan 8' are equivalent for me to read, and obviously much better than '8/1' vs '1/8'.

Indeed, there is no confusion whatsoever with 8 Jan or Jan 8. Well, okay, if I type Jan 16, one could misinterpret that to mean January of 2016, so it's not perfect.

Kirian's dates are unambiguous. I sign my paperwork as 7 Jan 2016. When I label folders, I will use 20160107 because an alphabetical sort is identical to a chronological sort, and that's beautiful. I wrinkle my nose when people label folders as 01072016 because all the Januarys are clumped together. Also, that can be confusing when comparing it to the European format, but Jan2016 still has the problem of clumping together when sorting alphabetically.

[Kuildeous]

And a community of typesetters quietly screams in agony. 
 

Serves those little bastards right for snooping in my To-Do list on OneNote. GTFO, man.

[pacovf]

My hobby: eating something, then checking the expiry date, "15Jan16", and wonder how the rest of the week is going to go.

[Roadrunner7671]

Random Stuff III. We didn't need this.

But since I'm posting here, I'll mine as well ask people why showing your work with basic math (basic to you, not me) is so important.

[Tables]

I also sometimes look at that date range and think, "Yep, the answer is 1/8."

A dash would be more appropriate, but for quick-and-dirty ranges, I just use a hyphen.

[Tables]

Random Stuff III. We didn't need this.

But since I'm posting here, I'll mine as well ask people why showing your work with basic math (basic to you, not me) is so important.

1) If you're just doing maths to pass your exam, you will get marks for working even if you get the final answer wrong. For example if it's a 4 mark question, and you do everything right but accidentally do 23 x 4 = 82 in your working, you'll almost certainly get 3 marks for it. If you just wrote 82 as your final answer, you would likely get 0.

2) If you're actually doing maths IRL, it makes it less likely you'll make a mistake as you're writing numbers down as you go, and that makes it more likely you won't forget a number as you go and might spot an error you were about to make.

3) If you do actually make a mistake, and get a final answer you know is incorrect (e.g. you're calculating the chance of getting some card draw in Dominion and calculate it as a 120% chance) you can go back and look at what you've done, making it much more likely you'll spot your mistake.

That's just three reasons off the top of my head.

[Awaclus]

I have to do it just because it makes it so much easier to think when I don't have to worry about forgetting things (which is also why I always play Dominion with the VP counter).

[enfynet]

I use Excel the same way. I build formulas through multiple simple cells before I combine them to the final format I need.

[Kuildeous]

Random Stuff III. We didn't need this.
 

According to my choked browsers, II apparently went on too far unfortunately.

I use Excel the same way. I build formulas through multiple simple cells before I combine them to the final format I need.

I do that too. It makes it a little easier to update years later. I do like to combine formulas to avoid needless calculations, but it can be tricky to decipher a really long and convoluted formula.

Although I'm not sure that combining would reduce the calculations.

If you have IF(VLOOKUP(A1,A:B, 2)=2, TRUE, FALSE) in C1, then would that save processing time compared to having VLOOKUP(A1,A:B,2) in C1 and IF(C1=2, TRUE, FALSE) in D1? It seems the same number of steps, but is there a saving when the nested function is resolved within the main function?

[Witherweaver]

Random Stuff III. We didn't need this.
 

According to my choked browsers, II apparently went on too far unfortunately.

He just means that we don't need "Random Stuff III" because we have "KC is far more skippable than people think."

[Watno]

You should have called the thread Random Stuff Part IV

[Kuildeous]

You should have called the thread Random Stuff Part IV

Sometimes I like to change the subject in the middle of a thread and see how many people reply to it and keep the new name going. Of course, it reverts back as people reply to the original, but it'd be amusing to see an uber-post that spawns all future posts with the new subject line.

I know not of this KC thread. I honestly only come here to read the non-Dominion stuff, which is weird because I can view non-Dominion stuff literally everywhere else.

But that may explain why Random Stuff II has been quiet lately.

[Witherweaver]

You should have called the thread Random Stuff Part IV

Sometimes I like to change the subject in the middle of a thread and see how many people reply to it and keep the new name going. Of course, it reverts back as people reply to the original, but it'd be amusing to see an uber-post that spawns all future posts with the new subject line.

I know not of this KC thread. I honestly only come here to read the non-Dominion stuff, which is weird because I can view non-Dominion stuff literally everywhere else.

But that may explain why Random Stuff II has been quiet lately.

Ah, there's your problem right there.  You have to check the Dominion subforums to get the non-Dominion stuff.

[enfynet]

You should have called the thread Random Stuff Part IV

Sometimes I like to change the subject in the middle of a thread and see how many people reply to it and keep the new name going. Of course, it reverts back as people reply to the original, but it'd be amusing to see an uber-post that spawns all future posts with the new subject line.

I know not of this KC thread. I honestly only come here to read the non-Dominion stuff, which is weird because I can view non-Dominion stuff literally everywhere else.

But that may explain why Random Stuff II has been quiet lately.

You aren't missing much. It has become a meta-discussion about how we discuss things on F.DS.

[Awaclus]

I know not of this KC thread. I honestly only come here to read the non-Dominion stuff

In that case, you should check it out because it's non-Dominion stuff.

[Roadrunner7671]

Random Stuff III. We didn't need this.
 

According to my choked browsers, II apparently went on too far unfortunately.

I use Excel the same way. I build formulas through multiple simple cells before I combine them to the final format I need.

I do that too. It makes it a little easier to update years later. I do like to combine formulas to avoid needless calculations, but it can be tricky to decipher a really long and convoluted formula.

Although I'm not sure that combining would reduce the calculations.

If you have IF(VLOOKUP(A1,A:B, 2)=2, TRUE, FALSE) in C1, then would that save processing time compared to having VLOOKUP(A1,A:B,2) in C1 and IF(C1=2, TRUE, FALSE) in D1? It seems the same number of steps, but is there a saving when the nested function is resolved within the main function?

We didn't need part II, either.

[Awaclus]

Random Stuff III. We didn't need this.
 

According to my choked browsers, II apparently went on too far unfortunately.

I use Excel the same way. I build formulas through multiple simple cells before I combine them to the final format I need.

I do that too. It makes it a little easier to update years later. I do like to combine formulas to avoid needless calculations, but it can be tricky to decipher a really long and convoluted formula.

Although I'm not sure that combining would reduce the calculations.

If you have IF(VLOOKUP(A1,A:B, 2)=2, TRUE, FALSE) in C1, then would that save processing time compared to having VLOOKUP(A1,A:B,2) in C1 and IF(C1=2, TRUE, FALSE) in D1? It seems the same number of steps, but is there a saving when the nested function is resolved within the main function?

We didn't need part II, either.

Random stuff is at least 67% more skippable than people think.

[LastFootnote]

Random stuff is at least 67% more skippable than people think.

Whoa, it's 167% skippable?

[liopoil]

Random Stuff III. We didn't need this.

But since I'm posting here, I'll mine as well ask people why showing your work with basic math (basic to you, not me) is so important.

Never show your work. You know the answer, your reader knows the answer, so what's the point of showing your work? Even if your reader wants to know how you came up with the answer, that's none of their business. Even if there is a chance that you made a silly mistake, don't bother showing work because there's a risk you'll copy things down wrong. Besides, you might confuse your reader by using a method which wasn't the one they had in mind, so it's better to just give the result and have them assume you solved it the same way as them.

(Note for anyone who was going to take this post seriously: don't take this post seriously)

[Witherweaver]

The idea of "showing your work" is stupid.  Your work is the answer.

[scott_pilgrim]

Random Stuff III. We didn't need this.

But since I'm posting here, I'll mine as well ask people why showing your work with basic math (basic to you, not me) is so important.

It depends on what you mean by basic math.  I usually think in big steps.  I try to get the intuition behind a problem first, and then make sure that each step in the reasoning actually works.  When you break things down small enough, you know that something is obviously true and you don't need to show work for it anymore.  If you're in fourth grade multiplying 56 by 47, you probably don't need to show by hand that 6 times 7 is 42 (by actually adding 6+6+6+6+6+6+6), because you're at the point where you've memorized that already.  If you're in algebra you may not be expected to show how you got 15*3=45 because it's expected that you can do that easily at this point.  If you're in calculus you won't need to show every step in solving an equation like 5x+12=2x-6 because it's assumed that you can do that easily.

After a certain point, there are diminishing returns for showing your work.  There are all of the advantages Tables mentioned, but if you (and your audience) can do something so consistently that you're unlikely to make a mistake with it anyway, then writing down all the details takes more time than it will save you in the long run.

Of course, this really only applies to more computational math.  In more proof-oriented math, you could say that the entire problem itself is to show your work.  But even then, you generally assume that your audience can accept a lot of the basic details without you stating them, or else you at least refer them to other work that has worked out those details for you.

[ConMan]

Working in a place where maths (and related exercises) underpins a lot of what we do but where there are plenty of people whose job is not to understand the particularly complicated aspects of it, I've learned that it is really important to have done all your working and recorded it, but to only present what's relevant. Found an equation that will save the organisation a million dollars? Great - have a colleague double-check the working, but when you present it to management they probably don't even want to see the equation, let alone the working, they want to see the plan that will let you put it into production without unduly affecting exisiting work.

[enfynet]

Of course, this really only applies to more computational math.  In more proof-oriented math, you could say that the entire problem itself is to show your work.  But even then, you generally assume that your audience can accept a lot of the basic details without you stating them, or else you at least refer them to other work that has worked out those details for you.

You mean Proofs like this one?

[eHalcyon]

Step 1 should be addition, not multiplication.

The statement in step 4 is not axiomatic and needs further proof.  For the record, the actual line is that "the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil".

The proof is flawed!

[Witherweaver]

"root" does not imply square root.

[enfynet]

Step 1 should be addition, not multiplication.

The statement in step 4 is not axiomatic and needs further proof.  For the record, the actual line is that "the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil".

The proof is flawed!

Well of course the proof is flawed, but that doesn't make it less of a proof.

[LastFootnote]

Well of course the proof is flawed, but that doesn't make it less of a proof.

Prove it!

[Awaclus]

Step 1 should be addition, not multiplication.

But multiplication is the equivalent of "and". "Or" is the equivalent of addition.

Well, at least in some contexts.

[Qvist]

Man, the English language has sometimes some weird pronunciation, like the pronunciation of the word "gauge" makes no sense at all. It has neither an "e" nor an "i" in the word what you would expect.

[ashersky]

Man, the English language has sometimes some weird pronunciation, like the pronunciation of the word "gauge" makes no sense at all. It has neither an "e" nor an "i" in the word what you would expect.

How are you pronouncing it?

[Qvist]

ɡeɪdʒ

[ashersky]

ɡeɪdʒ

Makes sense.

Think of it as gay-eej.

Speaking of pronouncing things, while in Germany, I realized German is impossible.

[Kuildeous]

I have passing knowledge of Spanish and Japanese (well, less passable than before; I can read translation dictionaries). I am amused that I can mostly pronounce words from both languages the same way. Assuming romaji of course. There are some notable differences, such as J, and Japanese has some subtle rules for double letters.

So I like to think that I can order the dishes okay in Mexican and Japanese restaurants. From my very limited exposure to linguistics, it seems that a lot of foreign words can be BSed by using the same vowel-pronunciation scheme as Spanish and Japanese. I know not to try that nonsense in French or German restaurants.

[Witherweaver]

I like gawj.

Edit: Now that I think about it, I think gaw-j for the verb form and gay-j for the noun form.

[Kuildeous]

Quote

I see. Do go on.

[Limetime]

Quote                                                    ^^^^

[ashersky]

I like gawj.

Edit: Now that I think about it, I think gaw-j for the verb form and gay-j for the noun form.

I though the verb gawj was written gouge?  As in I'll gouge out your eyes and eat them for breakfast.

Gauge is more like gauge the distance from here to there. 

I guess I could look it up, but I feel right.

[2.71828.....]

A new random stuff thread? I noticed we got up to random stuff V in titles, why stop there?

[Kuildeous]

A new random stuff thread? I noticed we got up to random stuff V in titles, why stop there?

Why indeed?

[Tables]

On a completely unrelated note, who is watching this year's AGDQ - Awesome Games Done Quick? I tend to plug it every year and it's almost over for this year, sure, but still has 2 more days to go and has raised just shy of $600,000 for the Prevent Cancer Foundation so far. If you want to watch awesome games getting completely ruined by extremely talented and experienced gamers - or even if you don't, since chances are you'll enjoy some of it anyway - go check it out.

http://www.twitch.tv/gamesdonequick for the stream directly

https://gamesdonequick.com/ for their main site and the easiest place to donate.

[enfynet]

A new random stuff thread? I noticed we got up to random stuff V in titles, why stop there?

Why indeed?

I think this may be getting out of hand.

[Tables]

What kind of heretic uses capital letters in the general quadratic equation?

[Witherweaver]

What kind of heretic uses capital letters in the general quadratic equation?

When the coefficients are matrices.

[Tables]

What kind of heretic uses capital letters in the general quadratic equation?

When the coefficients are matrices.

Oh, boy. Yeah, it's been a while since I've used matrices in proper equations.

[Witherweaver]

What kind of heretic uses capital letters in the general quadratic equation?

When the coefficients are matrices.

Oh, boy. Yeah, it's been a while since I've used matrices in proper equations.

Now find the roots!

[sudgy]

On a completely unrelated note, who is watching this year's AGDQ - Awesome Games Done Quick? I tend to plug it every year and it's almost over for this year, sure, but still has 2 more days to go and has raised just shy of $600,000 for the Prevent Cancer Foundation so far. If you want to watch awesome games getting completely ruined by extremely talented and experienced gamers - or even if you don't, since chances are you'll enjoy some of it anyway - go check it out.

http://www.twitch.tv/gamesdonequick for the stream directly

https://gamesdonequick.com/ for their main site and the easiest place to donate.

I usually check out the TAS block afterwards.

[Titandrake]

Specific VODs you may like:

Kingdom Hearts 1.5 (good commentary, a bit long if you've never played Kingdom Hearts though)
Crypt of the Necrodancer (Unseeded Coda runs. I've never played but it's supposed to be insane.)
Animorphs (an awful game, hilarious trainwreck)
Gimmick (short and crazy)
Blaster Master race (I've never played but it was reasonably entertaining and a close race.)
Battletoads (features a donation incentive to do the end of Turbo Tunnel blindfolded)
Kaizo Mario Bros 3 (full of "are you serious" moments)
Super Mario Maker blind relay race (super silly, super fun, recommend highly)
Mike Tyson's Punch Out BLINDFOLDED RACE (if you're going to watch anything, watch this)
Mirror's Edge (lots of speed tricks)
Paper Mario (lots of neat tricks. A bit long but it has lots of sequence breaking)
Pokemon Yellow and Pokemon Blue glitch showcase (The glitch showcase is pretty great. Pokemon has lots of insane glitches, including ones that let you do arbitrary code execution)

[Teproc]

ash, what did you find hard to pronounce in German ? Aside from regional differences (like the final g, stuff like that), it's by far the most consistent language I know in terms of pronounciation. There are basically no silent letters, which makes it pretty straightforward.

[Kirian]

ash, what did you find hard to pronounce in German ? Aside from regional differences (like the final g, stuff like that), it's by far the most consistent language I know in terms of pronounciation. There are basically no silent letters, which makes it pretty straightforward.

Spanish is even more consistent than German, but yes, in general if you can pronounce it in German, you can spell it.

[Witherweaver]

So for my birthday my mom sent me a periodic table of elements rug from ThinkGeek.  The package slip had a message:

"If you're havin' code problems I feel bad for you son; I got 01100011 problems but a bit ain't one."

[ashersky]

ash, what did you find hard to pronounce in German ? Aside from regional differences (like the final g, stuff like that), it's by far the most consistent language I know in terms of pronounciation. There are basically no silent letters, which makes it pretty straightforward.

Versöhnungsgemeinde

A word like this is scary.  We don't use umlauts in English, for one, so I'm not sure what the o actually sounds like.   That's a lot of consonants in a row there in the middle.

If I was in a taxi, I'd try to break it down... versun - ungs - jem - indy.

Also, that odd letter in German that sort of looks like a fancy B but doesn't exist in English?  It's in a lot of street names (Straße) (I think it's part of the word for street, in fact).  I just say "straub" since that's what it looks like.

[faust]

Versöhnungsgemeinde

A word like this is scary.  We don't use umlauts in English, for one, so I'm not sure what the o actually sounds like.   That's a lot of consonants in a row there in the middle.

If I was in a taxi, I'd try to break it down... versun - ungs - jem - indy.

Also, that odd letter in German that sort of looks like a fancy B but doesn't exist in English?  It's in a lot of street names (Straße) (I think it's part of the word for street, in fact).  I just say "straub" since that's what it looks like.

What does that word even mean?

I mean, sure we have letters that other languages don't have, but it doesn't take a long time to memorize them I think... at least it's obvious. Other languages have letter combination that you have to memorize ("ge" in Italian, "ou" in Dutch). English doesn't even have any consistent phonetics. What usually makes German impossibleto learn for people isn't that, it's grammar.

As for pronounciation: ß is just a fancy s and is pronounced as in "mass". Ö is somewhat like "nerd".

[XerxesPraelor]

ash, what did you find hard to pronounce in German ? Aside from regional differences (like the final g, stuff like that), it's by far the most consistent language I know in terms of pronounciation. There are basically no silent letters, which makes it pretty straightforward.

Versöhnungsgemeinde

A word like this is scary.  We don't use umlauts in English, for one, so I'm not sure what the o actually sounds like.   That's a lot of consonants in a row there in the middle.

This is basically fare-son-ungs-geh-mine-deh.

[Tables]

ß is also just a shorthand for ss. Although I think there's certain cases where you do or don't use it, based on pronounciation. German speakers here can probably correct or expand on this, considering my German is extremely rusty and was never good to begin with (I only have a B at GCSE German and have barely used it for the last 7 years except for doing things like telling people "Ich esse tisch" or other similarly nonsensical phrases).

[faust]

ash, what did you find hard to pronounce in German ? Aside from regional differences (like the final g, stuff like that), it's by far the most consistent language I know in terms of pronounciation. There are basically no silent letters, which makes it pretty straightforward.

Versöhnungsgemeinde

A word like this is scary.  We don't use umlauts in English, for one, so I'm not sure what the o actually sounds like.   That's a lot of consonants in a row there in the middle.

Fun fact: "straightforward" actually has the same amount of consonants in a row in the middle. Plus three at the start.

[qmech]

We kind of do (or did) have the ß in English: it's ss where the first s is a long s.

I'm casually learning German on Duolingo.  Some of the phrases they're fond of seem a bit weird, but maybe that's to help them stick.  I can't imagine needing "Das ist nicht unsere Mutter!", and being constantly asked to repeat "Gemeinsam sind wir stark!" is frankly unsettling.

[enfynet]

The top of Valravn at Cedar Point is being installed right now. And I don't know the forum code to shrink the image.

[enfynet]

Here's a better shot borrowed from another site:

[Awaclus]

And I don't know the forum code to shrink the image.

I do.

[enfynet]

And I don't know the forum code to shrink the image.

I do.

thanks. I will edit my post.

[ashersky]

Versöhnungsgemeinde

A word like this is scary.  We don't use umlauts in English, for one, so I'm not sure what the o actually sounds like.   That's a lot of consonants in a row there in the middle.

If I was in a taxi, I'd try to break it down... versun - ungs - jem - indy.

Also, that odd letter in German that sort of looks like a fancy B but doesn't exist in English?  It's in a lot of street names (Straße) (I think it's part of the word for street, in fact).  I just say "straub" since that's what it looks like.

What does that word even mean?

I mean, sure we have letters that other languages don't have, but it doesn't take a long time to memorize them I think... at least it's obvious. Other languages have letter combination that you have to memorize ("ge" in Italian, "ou" in Dutch). English doesn't even have any consistent phonetics. What usually makes German impossibleto learn for people isn't that, it's grammar.

As for pronounciation: ß is just a fancy s and is pronounced as in "mass". Ö is somewhat like "nerd".

I don't know what it means -- it's German.

I guess I should have clarified that it's a lot of consonants in a row that we don't put in a row in English.

If B = ss, how do you write a B?  If a German word has a double s, is it pronounced as a b?

[qmech]

Versöhnungsgemeinde

A word like this is scary.  We don't use umlauts in English, for one, so I'm not sure what the o actually sounds like.   That's a lot of consonants in a row there in the middle.

If I was in a taxi, I'd try to break it down... versun - ungs - jem - indy.

Also, that odd letter in German that sort of looks like a fancy B but doesn't exist in English?  It's in a lot of street names (Straße) (I think it's part of the word for street, in fact).  I just say "straub" since that's what it looks like.

What does that word even mean?

I mean, sure we have letters that other languages don't have, but it doesn't take a long time to memorize them I think... at least it's obvious. Other languages have letter combination that you have to memorize ("ge" in Italian, "ou" in Dutch). English doesn't even have any consistent phonetics. What usually makes German impossibleto learn for people isn't that, it's grammar.

As for pronounciation: ß is just a fancy s and is pronounced as in "mass". Ö is somewhat like "nerd".

I don't know what it means -- it's German.

I guess I should have clarified that it's a lot of consonants in a row that we don't put in a row in English.

If B = ss, how do you write a B?  If a German word has a double s, is it pronounced as a b?

It's not a B: it's (historically) a ligature of a long s and a normal modern s (which differ only typographically).  There was a spelling reform in Germany about 20 years ago, and lots of ß's were replaced by ss's.  It's no more confusing in practice than capital I and lower case l.

[Kirian]

You know that weird-shaped s you see in old documents in English, like the Constitution, that looks a bit like an integral sign, or a fancy f with no cross?  Okay, now write a normal lowercase s right next to that.  Now connect their tops with a straight line down.

Now you have the German ss as it was printed in Fraktur style fonts.  It's not a B, it's just another character you have to memorize and is, if I remember correctly, entirely deprecated, no longer used in official documents etc.  It is exactly equivalent to "ss".

[faust]

Now you have the German ss as it was printed in Fraktur style fonts.  It's not a B, it's just another character you have to memorize and is, if I remember correctly, entirely deprecated, no longer used in official documents etc.  It is exactly equivalent to "ss".

This part is not true. ß is still a character that is used officially, and it would be wrong to write "Strasse" instead of "Straße". ss in German implies that the vowel preceeding the ss is short, while ß (according to current spelling) implies that the preceeding vowel is long.

[schadd]

"-"; the hyphen, press the hyphen button on your keyboard. this is for things that you think of as 'hyphenated' (compound surnames, words that bunch together like seven-year-old)

"–"; the en dash, hold alt and press 0-1-5-0 on your numpad. this is for ranges, subtractions, and other things that don't feel like hyphens/em dashes. use your best judgement

"—"; the em dash, hold alt and press 0-1-5-1 on your numpad. this is for the grammatical usage—it indicates a longer pause that can sort of be a proxy for a colon, comma, or semicolon i think

("what is this, two days ago?"
–you, the reader)

[Kuildeous]

"-"; the hyphen, press the hyphen button on your keyboard. this is for things that you think of as 'hyphenated' (compound surnames, words that bunch together like seven-year-old)

"–"; the en dash, hold alt and press 0-1-5-0 on your numpad. this is for ranges, subtractions, and other things that don't feel like hyphens/em dashes. use your best judgement

"—"; the em dash, hold alt and press 0-1-5-1 on your numpad. this is for the grammatical usage—it indicates a longer pause that can sort of be a proxy for a colon, comma, or semicolon i think

("what is this, two days ago?"
–you, the reader)

Still useful.

I'll still do quick-and-dirty for my notes. I reserve punctuation precision for more detailed documents.

[ashersky]

You know that weird-shaped s you see in old documents in English, like the Constitution, that looks a bit like an integral sign, or a fancy f with no cross?  Okay, now write a normal lowercase s right next to that.  Now connect their tops with a straight line down.

Now you have the German ss as it was printed in Fraktur style fonts.  It's not a B, it's just another character you have to memorize and is, if I remember correctly, entirely deprecated, no longer used in official documents etc.  It is exactly equivalent to "ss".

I guess.

I'm just arguing that, to me, German seems incredibly difficult as a foreign language as compared to something super simple like Japanese.  I know a lot of non-native English speakers find English difficult -- this is the same as that, I guess.

[Awaclus]

You know that weird-shaped s you see in old documents in English, like the Constitution, that looks a bit like an integral sign, or a fancy f with no cross?  Okay, now write a normal lowercase s right next to that.  Now connect their tops with a straight line down.

Now you have the German ss as it was printed in Fraktur style fonts.  It's not a B, it's just another character you have to memorize and is, if I remember correctly, entirely deprecated, no longer used in official documents etc.  It is exactly equivalent to "ss".

I guess.

I'm just arguing that, to me, German seems incredibly difficult as a foreign language as compared to something super simple like Japanese.  I know a lot of non-native English speakers find English difficult -- this is the same as that, I guess.

You think Japanese is super simple and your main complaint about German is one letter that English doesn't have?

[Watno]

Also, ß never appears at the beginning of a ward. There's also no capital version of it.

[Witherweaver]

I only took two German courses in college (foreign languages are not fun to learn for me), but it seemed extremely simple, given that you knew English.  I took French in high school, and that was also easy to learn (to the extent required for the course---I never became fluent).

Edit: I mean, all languages are easy to learn, if you simply take the effort to learn them.  But I imagine a language that borrows from a lot of different sources (like English) is more challenging. 

[ashersky]

You know that weird-shaped s you see in old documents in English, like the Constitution, that looks a bit like an integral sign, or a fancy f with no cross?  Okay, now write a normal lowercase s right next to that.  Now connect their tops with a straight line down.

Now you have the German ss as it was printed in Fraktur style fonts.  It's not a B, it's just another character you have to memorize and is, if I remember correctly, entirely deprecated, no longer used in official documents etc.  It is exactly equivalent to "ss".

I guess.

I'm just arguing that, to me, German seems incredibly difficult as a foreign language as compared to something super simple like Japanese.  I know a lot of non-native English speakers find English difficult -- this is the same as that, I guess.

You think Japanese is super simple and your main complaint about German is one letter that English doesn't have?

I don't think Japanese is super simple, I know it is.  I speak English, Japanese, and Italian, having learned the second two.  Japanese was the easier to learn, by far.

I am sure I could learn German if I studied.  But just plopping in the middle of it, it's clear to me that it is much harder than the languages I've learned.

If you were to drop a person in the middle or Tokyo or Berlin with no knowledge of either language,  or a related language, the one dropped in Tokyo would have a much easier time picking it up.

[ashersky]

Also, ß never appears at the beginning of a ward. There's also no capital version of it.

Good to know.  Any reason?

[LastFootnote]

I don't think Japanese is super simple, I know it is.  I speak English, Japanese, and Italian, having learned the second two.  Japanese was the easier to learn, by far.

I am sure I could learn German if I studied.  But just plopping in the middle of it, it's clear to me that it is much harder than the languages I've learned.

If you were to drop a person in the middle or Tokyo or Berlin with no knowledge of either language,  or a related language, the one dropped in Tokyo would have a much easier time picking it up.

You are in the minority, dude. Most native English speakers find German way easier than Japanese. They're sister languages, German and English. Several words are the same, and the grammar's way closer.

[ashersky]

I don't think Japanese is super simple, I know it is.  I speak English, Japanese, and Italian, having learned the second two.  Japanese was the easier to learn, by far.

I am sure I could learn German if I studied.  But just plopping in the middle of it, it's clear to me that it is much harder than the languages I've learned.

If you were to drop a person in the middle or Tokyo or Berlin with no knowledge of either language,  or a related language, the one dropped in Tokyo would have a much easier time picking it up.

You are in the minority, dude. Most native English speakers find German way easier than Japanese. They're sister languages, German and English. Several words are the same, and the grammar's way closer.

Maybe?  I'd assume you'd have a hard time proving that unless there's been a study done of language students somewhere of native English speakers who have studied both Japanese and German.

Japanese is easier to pronounce and has simpler and more sensible grammar rules than English (and therefore German, I assume).  The only "hard" part is reading, but that's rote memorization anyway.

Compare that long German word I wrote earlier to something of similar length in Japanese:

kyakushitsujoumuin

I think that is much easier to figure out than the German word, because the phonetics are so simple and consistent.

[Awaclus]

I don't think Japanese is super simple, I know it is.  I speak English, Japanese, and Italian, having learned the second two.  Japanese was the easier to learn, by far.

I am sure I could learn German if I studied.  But just plopping in the middle of it, it's clear to me that it is much harder than the languages I've learned.

If you were to drop a person in the middle or Tokyo or Berlin with no knowledge of either language,  or a related language, the one dropped in Tokyo would have a much easier time picking it up.

Japanese is like the easiest thing ever to pronounce and the grammar is more intuitive than that of German languages a lot of the time, but surely learning thousands of Chinese characters is more difficult than learning one ß.

Compare that long German word I wrote earlier to something of similar length in Japanese:

客室乗務員

FTFY.

[ashersky]

I don't think Japanese is super simple, I know it is.  I speak English, Japanese, and Italian, having learned the second two.  Japanese was the easier to learn, by far.

I am sure I could learn German if I studied.  But just plopping in the middle of it, it's clear to me that it is much harder than the languages I've learned.

If you were to drop a person in the middle or Tokyo or Berlin with no knowledge of either language,  or a related language, the one dropped in Tokyo would have a much easier time picking it up.

Japanese is like the easiest thing ever to pronounce and the grammar is more intuitive than that of German languages a lot of the time, but surely learning thousands of Chinese characters is more difficult than learning one ß.

Compare that long German word I wrote earlier to something of similar length in Japanese:

客室乗務員

FTFY.

Learning thousands of Chinese characters would in fact be very difficult, as well as unfortunate given I was discussing Japanese.

The characters are related, and some are the same, but they are not the same language.

[Awaclus]

Learning thousands of Chinese characters would in fact be very difficult, as well as unfortunate given I was discussing Japanese.

The characters are related, and some are the same, but they are not the same language.

Well, the argument could be made that it's unfortunate that Japanese uses thousands of Chinese characters in its writing system, but I doubt they're going to change that any time soon.

[Teproc]

I don't speak Japanese, but I do speak German and English, and the idea that an English speaker would have an easier time learning Japanese is ludicrous. English is basically an easier to learn version of German (except in the pronounciation field, English pronounciation makes zero sense).

I don't care how complex German grammar is, the simple fact that you basically know half of the vocabulary already has to make it much easier.

[ashersky]

Learning thousands of Chinese characters would in fact be very difficult, as well as unfortunate given I was discussing Japanese.

The characters are related, and some are the same, but they are not the same language.

Well, the argument could be made that it's unfortunate that Japanese uses thousands of Chinese characters in its writing system, but I doubt they're going to change that any time soon.

Relevant: https://eastasiastudent.net/regional/hanzi-and-kanji/

Anyway, if you learn to read Chinese, you still won't be able to speak, or understand, Japanese.

[ashersky]

I don't speak Japanese, but I do speak German and English, and the idea that an English speaker would have an easier time learning Japanese is ludicrous. English is basically an easier to learn version of German (except in the pronounciation field, English pronounciation makes zero sense).

I don't care how complex German grammar is, the simple fact that you basically know half of the vocabulary already has to make it much easier.

I haven't tried to learn German, but I learned both Japanese and Italian fluently, and the latter was exponentially harder to learn, even though Latin languages are supposed to be easier.

We are arguing about a subjective measure of difficulty that is literally different for every brain in the world.  I'm assuming I won't convince you, and you won't convince me.

Have you, or any of you other Japanese haters, tried to learn it?  Maybe you wouldn't be so critical if you gave it a shot.

I cannot say for certain that German is harder to learn, but spending many days within its confines impressed me with its very difficult pronunciation.

[Witherweaver]

There wasn't any criticism.

[scott_pilgrim]

I'm sure it varies from person to person, and I have no idea about how the languages compare overall, but the specific complaint that you made seems pretty ridiculous to me.  Your complaint seems to be that German is phonetically complicated, which maybe it is, I know almost nothing about German.  But my understanding is that there are at least some phonetic rules to go by.  Hiragana and katakana are very straightforward phonetically, but kanji is basically as difficult as a written language could get (I imagine Chinese is harder, but they're in the same ballpark), because the only way to learn it is to memorize thousands of characters.  Even if German had no phonetic rules at all, it would be equally difficult as kanji, because you could just memorize which words correspond with which pronunciations (which is what you have to do with kanji).

[ashersky]

Maybe we are talking past each other.  We are writing on a forum, so writing and reading is required, but I'm talking about speaking out loud -- and German just seems so obviously harder to speak than Japanese.  The way it is written is a visual representation of that when the language is written phonetically -- like when I romanized the Japanese word -- which is what the argument is.  Learning to make the sounds that match their phonetic representations is the thing we are discussing but SP and Awaclus are trying to muddy the waters with kanji.

Sure, it's hard to memorize 1800 or 5000 kanji.  But speaking Japanese is really, really easy.  Memorizing a funny SS might be simple, but speaking German is not.

[Teproc]

The weird thing is that pronounciation is, like, the simplest thing about the German language. Of the languages I know, the difficulty in pronouncing goes this way (left = hard)

English >>>>>>> French >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>German

And this isn't that subjective. German is simple to pronouncebecause it has clear rules and mostly holds to it. As opposed to English wich has basically no rules, and you have to learn how to pronounce every single word. French is somewhere in between : there are rules, but there are many, many of them, and they're not as universally true as the ones in German.

The word you highlighted above is actually very simple to pronounce, and, as someone pointed out, much easier than the word you negatively happened to us to describe it (straightforward).

Now Japanese seems pretty easy to pronounce as well, I'll give you that.But in the grand schme of things, German is very much on the easy side.

[Witherweaver]

Maybe we are talking past each other.  We are writing on a forum, so writing and reading is required, but I'm talking about speaking out loud -- and German just seems so obviously harder to speak than Japanese.  The way it is written is a visual representation of that when the language is written phonetically -- like when I romanized the Japanese word -- which is what the argument is.  Learning to make the sounds that match their phonetic representations is the thing we are discussing but SP and Awaclus are trying to muddy the waters with kanji.

Sure, it's hard to memorize 1800 or 5000 kanji.  But speaking Japanese is really, really easy.  Memorizing a funny SS might be simple, but speaking German is not.

It sounds like you're saying that, if you spell things phonetically, then they're easier to pronounce from their spelling. 

[IsotropicWasBetter]

A new random stuff thread? I noticed we got up to random stuff V in titles, why stop there?

Why indeed?

I think this may be getting out of hand.

This post is discriminatory to those without hands.

[ashersky]

The weird thing is that pronounciation is, like, the simplest thing about the German language. Of the languages I know, the difficulty in pronouncing goes this way (left = hard)

English >>>>>>> French >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>German

And this isn't that subjective. German is simple to pronouncebecause it has clear rules and mostly holds to it. As opposed to English wich has basically no rules, and you have to learn how to pronounce every single word. French is somewhere in between : there are rules, but there are many, many of them, and they're not as universally true as the ones in German.

The word you highlighted above is actually very simple to pronounce, and, as someone pointed out, much easier than the word you negatively happened to us to describe it (straightforward).

Now Japanese seems pretty easy to pronounce as well, I'll give you that.But in the grand schme of things, German is very much on the easy side.

I can't defend English here -- I know full well it's a mess.  I think French is very hard to pronounce, given what seems to me to be a lot of extra letter that serve no purpose in most words.

When Germans speak German, I can't mimic the sounds they make.  Have you heard an American say Goethe?  When Germans say it, it sounds kind of like Gurkha?  I still can't pronounce the guy's name.

But we can all say Murakami without a problem.

My rankings, then, would go:

Tonal languages such as Vietnamese and Chinese >>> French >>> German >>> English >>> Portuguese >>> Spanish >>> Italian >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Japanese.

[ashersky]

Maybe we are talking past each other.  We are writing on a forum, so writing and reading is required, but I'm talking about speaking out loud -- and German just seems so obviously harder to speak than Japanese.  The way it is written is a visual representation of that when the language is written phonetically -- like when I romanized the Japanese word -- which is what the argument is.  Learning to make the sounds that match their phonetic representations is the thing we are discussing but SP and Awaclus are trying to muddy the waters with kanji.

Sure, it's hard to memorize 1800 or 5000 kanji.  But speaking Japanese is really, really easy.  Memorizing a funny SS might be simple, but speaking German is not.

It sounds like you're saying that, if you spell things phonetically, then they're easier to pronounce from their spelling.

I'm saying that, some sounds, even spelled phonetically, are harder to make with your mouth than others.

Danish is another ridiculously hard to pronounce language.  Ever drink Carlsberg beer?  You (and I) are saying it wrong.

[Limetime]

I don't speak Japanese, but I do speak German and English, and the idea that an English speaker would have an easier time learning Japanese is ludicrous. English is basically an easier to learn version of German (except in the pronounciation field, English pronounciation makes zero sense).

I don't care how complex German grammar is, the simple fact that you basically know half of the vocabulary already has to make it much easier.

I haven't tried to learn German, but I learned both Japanese and Italian fluently, and the latter was exponentially harder to learn, even though Latin languages are supposed to be easier.

German and English are not Latin they are germanic.

[Kirian]

Maybe we are talking past each other.  We are writing on a forum, so writing and reading is required, but I'm talking about speaking out loud -- and German just seems so obviously harder to speak than Japanese.  The way it is written is a visual representation of that when the language is written phonetically -- like when I romanized the Japanese word -- which is what the argument is.  Learning to make the sounds that match their phonetic representations is the thing we are discussing but SP and Awaclus are trying to muddy the waters with kanji.

Sure, it's hard to memorize 1800 or 5000 kanji.  But speaking Japanese is really, really easy.  Memorizing a funny SS might be simple, but speaking German is not.

It sounds like you're saying that, if you spell things phonetically, then they're easier to pronounce from their spelling.

I'm saying that, some sounds, even spelled phonetically, are harder to make with your mouth than others.

Danish is another ridiculously hard to pronounce language.  Ever drink Carlsberg beer?  You (and I) are saying it wrong.

But those sounds are only easier due to the language you grew up with.  Asimply someone who has studied German and listened to a lot of Japanese and Korean, I'm certain that German and Japanese have around the same number of sounds that are different from English.

Certainly for some people the velar fricative /x/ (final ch in German) is going to be harder than the alveolar flap that is halfway between /r/ and /l/ in Japanese... but for some people the opposite is true.

[Kirian]

Meanwhile in English, none of bough, cough, dough, rough, and through rhyme... and slough has two different meanings, one of which rhymes with through, and one with rough.

[eHalcyon]

This is relevant to language, right?

[2.71828.....]

Since when did relevance matter in this thread?

[Tables]

A new random stuff thread? I noticed we got up to random stuff V in titles, why stop there?

Why indeed?

I think this may be getting out of hand.

This post is discriminatory to those without hands.

Okay DXV's post #10 there is amazing and deserves more than 23 respect.

[Awaclus]

Maybe we are talking past each other.  We are writing on a forum, so writing and reading is required, but I'm talking about speaking out loud -- and German just seems so obviously harder to speak than Japanese.  The way it is written is a visual representation of that when the language is written phonetically -- like when I romanized the Japanese word -- which is what the argument is.  Learning to make the sounds that match their phonetic representations is the thing we are discussing but SP and Awaclus are trying to muddy the waters with kanji.

Sure, it's hard to memorize 1800 or 5000 kanji.  But speaking Japanese is really, really easy.  Memorizing a funny SS might be simple, but speaking German is not.

Romanizing Japanese words isn't comparable to German spellings of German words. You need to compare the IPAs if you want to make that argument, and it's true that you would find that the IPA for German words is more complicated than it is for Japanese, but it's not as complicated as you seem to think.

[ashersky]

I don't speak Japanese, but I do speak German and English, and the idea that an English speaker would have an easier time learning Japanese is ludicrous. English is basically an easier to learn version of German (except in the pronounciation field, English pronounciation makes zero sense).

I don't care how complex German grammar is, the simple fact that you basically know half of the vocabulary already has to make it much easier.

I haven't tried to learn German, but I learned both Japanese and Italian fluently, and the latter was exponentially harder to learn, even though Latin languages are supposed to be easier.

German and English are not Latin they are germanic.

Please read my post again.  I said I learned Japanese and Italian, and the latter was harder despite being Latin.  Nowhere did I tie together either English or German with Latin.

And yet you get the upvotes.

[ashersky]

Maybe we are talking past each other.  We are writing on a forum, so writing and reading is required, but I'm talking about speaking out loud -- and German just seems so obviously harder to speak than Japanese.  The way it is written is a visual representation of that when the language is written phonetically -- like when I romanized the Japanese word -- which is what the argument is.  Learning to make the sounds that match their phonetic representations is the thing we are discussing but SP and Awaclus are trying to muddy the waters with kanji.

Sure, it's hard to memorize 1800 or 5000 kanji.  But speaking Japanese is really, really easy.  Memorizing a funny SS might be simple, but speaking German is not.

Romanizing Japanese words isn't comparable to German spellings of German words. You need to compare the IPAs if you want to make that argument, and it's true that you would find that the IPA for German words is more complicated than it is for Japanese, but it's not as complicated as you seem to think.

So I made an incorrect comparison but had the right conclusion.  You just disagree with the degree.

[Awaclus]

Maybe we are talking past each other.  We are writing on a forum, so writing and reading is required, but I'm talking about speaking out loud -- and German just seems so obviously harder to speak than Japanese.  The way it is written is a visual representation of that when the language is written phonetically -- like when I romanized the Japanese word -- which is what the argument is.  Learning to make the sounds that match their phonetic representations is the thing we are discussing but SP and Awaclus are trying to muddy the waters with kanji.

Sure, it's hard to memorize 1800 or 5000 kanji.  But speaking Japanese is really, really easy.  Memorizing a funny SS might be simple, but speaking German is not.

Romanizing Japanese words isn't comparable to German spellings of German words. You need to compare the IPAs if you want to make that argument, and it's true that you would find that the IPA for German words is more complicated than it is for Japanese, but it's not as complicated as you seem to think.

So I made an incorrect comparison but had the right conclusion.  You just disagree with the degree.

Well, concluding that a language is difficult to pronounce if it's more difficult than Japanese is like concluding that Woodcutter is a complicated Dominion card because it's more complicated than Silver. That way, you'd conclude that Finnish is difficult to pronounce as well, but that would be a very wrong conclusion considering that comparing other languages to Finnish would still be an unfair comparison given how remarkably easy Finnish is.

[ashersky]

I concluded that, to me, German is far harder (to pronounce/learn) than Japanese.  Everyone seems united against me to prove that I am wrong, for some reason.  You don't even know me, but you do know that I found Japanese extremely easy to learn and Italian extremely hard to learn.  I also recently spent time I'm Germany, noting the difficult to pronounce words and phrases everywhere around me.

I don't see why everyone wants to change my opinion, given how short life is.

[Awaclus]

I concluded that, to me, German is far harder (to pronounce/learn) than Japanese.  Everyone seems united against me to prove that I am wrong, for some reason.  You don't even know me, but you do know that I found Japanese extremely easy to learn and Italian extremely hard to learn.  I also recently spent time I'm Germany, noting the difficult to pronounce words and phrases everywhere around me.

I don't see why everyone wants to change my opinion, given how short life is.

Originally you concluded that German is hard to pronounce. Then you concluded that German is a more difficult foreign language than Japanese. Being harder to pronounce than Japanese doesn't mean it's hard, and I'm fairly sure that having to memorize 2000 new characters does make Japanese pretty obviously more difficult to learn as a foreign language than any language that uses the Latin alphabet or another similar writing system.

[blueblimp]

But we can all say Murakami without a problem.

This is a bad example to pick, because an English native speaker is not going to pronounce the Japanese R correctly without practice.

That said, spoken Japanese is indeed among the easiest-to-pronounce languages. It has relatively few sounds and most of them are easy. Too bad that the writing system is one of the hardest in the world.

As far as objective difficulty of learning a language overall for a native English speaker, there's the Foreign Service Institute's ranking.

[enfynet]

I concluded that, to me, German is far harder (to pronounce/learn) than Japanese.  Everyone seems united against me to prove that I am wrong, for some reason.  You don't even know me, but you do know that I found Japanese extremely easy to learn and Italian extremely hard to learn.  I also recently spent time I'm Germany, noting the difficult to pronounce words and phrases everywhere around me.

I don't see why everyone wants to change my opinion, given how short life is.

Would you say Japanese is 90_93% easier than people think?

And that was a cheap way to get +1s, considering how short life is.

[ashersky]

I concluded that, to me, German is far harder (to pronounce/learn) than Japanese.  Everyone seems united against me to prove that I am wrong, for some reason.  You don't even know me, but you do know that I found Japanese extremely easy to learn and Italian extremely hard to learn.  I also recently spent time I'm Germany, noting the difficult to pronounce words and phrases everywhere around me.

I don't see why everyone wants to change my opinion, given how short life is.

Would you say Japanese is 90_93% easier than people think?

And that was a cheap way to get +1s, considering how short life is.

I really don't think it helps anyone to make up a statistic, even as a way to create a starting point for discussion.

[silverspawn]

does through really rhyme with cough?

[A Drowned Kernel]

does through really rhyme with cough?

No. "Through" is pronounced the same as "threw." "Cough" rhymes with "off".

Yes English is weird.

[silverspawn]

yeah, that's what I thought too

Meanwhile in English, none of bough, cough, dough, rough, and through don't rhyme

[A Drowned Kernel]

yeah, that's what I thought too

Meanwhile in English, none of bough, cough, dough, rough, and through don't rhyme

I think that's a double negative probably, what Kirian meant to say is that none of those words rhyme with each other.

[Witherweaver]

[Witherweaver]

yeah, that's what I thought too

Meanwhile in English, none of bough, cough, dough, rough, and through don't rhyme

I think that's a double negative probably, what Kirian meant to say is that none of those words rhyme with each other.

I definitely read this in my mind the first time as:

"bō, co, doe, row, throw"

[Kirian]

Dammit.

[silverspawn]

yeah, that's what I thought too

Meanwhile in English, none of bough, cough, dough, rough, and through don't rhyme

I think that's a double negative probably, what Kirian meant to say is that none of those words rhyme with each other.

oh, in that case I just learned that I always pronounced cough wrong

[eHalcyon]

I concluded that, to me, German is far harder (to pronounce/learn) than Japanese.  Everyone seems united against me to prove that I am wrong, for some reason.  You don't even know me, but you do know that I found Japanese extremely easy to learn and Italian extremely hard to learn.  I also recently spent time I'm Germany, noting the difficult to pronounce words and phrases everywhere around me.

I don't see why everyone wants to change my opinion, given how short life is.

I think people were arguing because you started off making a general claim (or seemed to) instead of a personal one, and it seemed to be about learning languages overall rather than just ease of pronunciation.

[Roadrunner7671]

I guess I'll post this here. I learned about 'Omer,' a user who was banned several years ago. Maybe you remember him, he had 25 postd and a Cultist avatar? I don't understand why he got banned so quickly but Goon Garden went on for 13 pages before he was banned.

[LastFootnote]

I guess I'll post this here. I learned about 'Omer,' a user who was banned several years ago. Maybe you remember him, he had 25 postd and a Cultist avatar? I don't understand why he got banned so quickly but Goon Garden went on for 13 pages before he was banned.

It matters how fast theory notices. This ain't a science.

[Roadrunner7671]

I guess I'll post this here. I learned about 'Omer,' a user who was banned several years ago. Maybe you remember him, he had 25 postd and a Cultist avatar? I don't understand why he got banned so quickly but Goon Garden went on for 13 pages before he was banned.

It matters how fast theory notices. This ain't a science.

Okay, a follow up question: What was Omer's offense/offenses that caused him to get banned? Sure, he wasn't the most polite person I've ever seen, but I think a ban was very cruel.

[Donald X.]

Okay, a follow up question: What was Omer's offense/offenses that caused him to get banned? Sure, he wasn't the most polite person I've ever seen, but I think a ban was very cruel.

I don't remember, but maybe there are posts that were deleted.

[eHalcyon]

Okay, a follow up question: What was Omer's offense/offenses that caused him to get banned? Sure, he wasn't the most polite person I've ever seen, but I think a ban was very cruel.

I don't remember, but maybe there are posts that were deleted.

Or maybe it had to do with private messages.

[Tables]

Someone tell me about why Goon Gardens got banned, and what happened. I don't want to read through 15 pages of content to figure it out.

[ashersky]

Someone tell me about why Goon Gardens got banned, and what happened. I don't want to read through 15 pages of content to figure it out.

I understand, given how short life is.

[Roadrunner7671]

Someone tell me about why Goon Gardens got banned, and what happened. I don't want to read through 15 pages of content to figure it out.

Being very disrespectful when his point was countered and he gave estimates that were probsbly not accurate, frequent swearing and personal attacks on F.DS members, and he asked to be banned once or twice.

[Awaclus]

Someone tell me about why Goon Gardens got banned, and what happened. I don't want to read through 15 pages of content to figure it out.

Good thing there's only 8 pages then!

Anyway, the best part starts around here: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14521.200

He gets banned on the next page.

"Considering how short life is" and ridiculously specific percentage estimates (especially 90-93%) are references to that thread.

[Donald X.]

When someone asks to be banned, the move is always to ban them. They can easily think of ways to make you wish you had.

[silverspawn]

classic proof by example

(the thread that is)

[ConMan]

My rankings, then, would go:

Tonal languages such as Vietnamese and Chinese >>> French >>> German >>> English >>> Portuguese >>> Spanish >>> Italian >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Japanese.

You know Japanese is a mildly tonal language too, right? With regional and contextual variation, for the fun of it.

I would echo the mention of the Foreign Service Institute's Language Difficulty Ranking, measure by the amount of intensive training required to gain a limited working proficiency in a language. German is in Category 2, requiring 750 hours of study. Japanese is in Category 5, along with Arabic, Mandarin, Cantonese and Korean, with 2200 hours of study required to gain working proficiency. And Japanese is considered one of the harder languages even *in* that category.

[Tables]

Someone tell me about why Goon Gardens got banned, and what happened. I don't want to read through 15 pages of content to figure it out.

Good thing there's only 8 pages then!

Anyway, the best part starts around here: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14521.200

He gets banned on the next page.

"Considering how short life is" and ridiculously specific percentage estimates (especially 90-93%) are references to that thread.

Well. That was quite something. I went in with an open mind, thinking maybe he was treated poorly or someone sparked him off to start replying badly. Instead I get someone who just seemed to get angry at and insult everyone, despite... being treated in a fairly civil manner. I'm wondering if he was trolling now, but that'd be some very subtle trolling if he was.

Edit: He was also moving the goalposts on what he was arguing as early as post 11, possibly even post 8.

[schadd]

first day of your women's studies class
"hello, class. i am professor anthony garboni, but you can call me tony garboni."
after the lecture is over you go up to him to ask a question
"hello, professor garboni?"
"please, that was my mother's name. call me tony garboni, as previously discussed."
you're the most excited you've ever been for a women's studies class

[Kirian]

http://www.pockettactics.com/news/ios-news/knights-of-pen-and-paper-2-goes-looking-for-dragons/

This entire post looks like news about a game, but it's really a long list of references to Alan Rickman.

[Tables]

There's a special place in Hull for the inventor of autocorrect.

[Kuildeous]

So because I'm feeling pedantic, I offer up for discussion a riddle I saw posted on Facebook. As it's supposed to be tricky, I suspect I'll see it making the rounds. 

As I recall, the riddle says that there is a fish tank with 10 fish.
Two fish drowned
Four fish swam away
Three fish died

How many fish are left?



[thinking gap, but I propose there is no single right answer so don't think too hard on this]




The "correct" answer is all ten are left. The reasoning is that fish can't drown, there's no place for fish to swim to, and the dead fish are still in the tank.

Okay, so I can accept the dead fish still being there. Saying how many are left implies surviving fish, but that's semantics. Obviously, people need to define what is meant by "left."

I can see the attempted trickery with fish not being able to drown, but fish can totally suffocate due to lack of oxygen in the water. And one definition of drowning is to die of suffocation while under liquid. This definition can get tricky, as it's generally understood that an air-breathing animal drowns by having fluid in its lungs, which causes the suffocation. It depends on how contrary you want to be. Someone could state whether a fish can technically drown, and someone else could come up with a viable argument for the opposite.

But I must say that the away part is unequivocally bullshit. The premise says nothing about the state of the tank. Are there exit tunnels? Is it submerged in a lake? Can fish successfully jump out of the tank? There is no indication that the tank is escape-proof. So you cannot say that there is no place for the fish to swim to if the premise itself specifically says that the fish swam away. You're contradicting the premise, which makes for a lousy riddle. It's the equivalent to asking what has four legs, flies, and barks—a dog; I lied about it flying. Okay, that contradiction is done for humorous effect because it's such a short riddle. It does not work here.

There's also the point that the two drowned fish could be grouped in with the three dead fish, so if you were to ask how many surviving fish remained, one could answer one or three.

Fortunately, I did not fall for this riddle, but it's hard to say that anyone truly fell for it since the answer I saw violates the premise as well the definition of drowning. I raised an eyebrow at the drowning part, so I had to look up whether fish can in fact drown. But it was the part of fish leaving but apparently they can't leave that bugged me. Don't put it in the premise if you aren't going to count it.

[Witherweaver]

I'm pretty sure you could drown a fish. 

[Limetime]

I'm pretty sure you could drown a fish.

you can drown a fish in a lot of non water liquids I think

[Kuildeous]

Yeah, there are some assumptions about drowning that don't take into account the definition.

I guess many people would define drowning as dying due to having water in lungs. In that case, no, you cannot drown a fish. But the definition I found that says drowning is suffocating while under a liquid would still count, though the method of dying is different for a fish versus a human. The human dies because of the water preventing the intake of air, so he suffocates that way, regardless of oxygen content. If a fish drowns, it's not because there is water there; it's because the oxygen content of the water is poor.

I'm happy with the definition I found, but I'm sure someone out there would dispute it. I would likely accept the definition given by a marine biologist.

[Witherweaver]

Yeah, there are some assumptions about drowning that don't take into account the definition.

I guess many people would define drowning as dying due to having water in lungs. In that case, no, you cannot drown a fish. But the definition I found that says drowning is suffocating while under a liquid would still count, though the method of dying is different for a fish versus a human. The human dies because of the water preventing the intake of air, so he suffocates that way, regardless of oxygen content. If a fish drowns, it's not because there is water there; it's because the oxygen content of the water is poor.

I'm happy with the definition I found, but I'm sure someone out there would dispute it. I would likely accept the definition given by a marine biologist.

Basic definition of drowning is what you say, death caused by respiratory impairment from immersion in a fluid: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drowning.  I think it's pretty standard despite what some average person on the street may say.  Water is only our common thing because, well, water is an abundant liquid here on earth. 

[Kirian]

Question:  mammals can "breathe" temporarily in a perfluorocarbon.  Would fish also be able to do so, or would they "drown" in an otherwise oxygen-rich environment?  (Ignore for a moment the density; fish would float straight to the surface in current PFCs.)

[Titandrake]

Today I found out that when a forecast says "75% chance of rain", it doesn't mean "there is a 75% chance it will rain today." What it really means is "Given a uniformly random point in the city, the probability that point gets any rain today is 75%"

So for example, if there is huge storm covering half the city, and there is sunshine over the other half, then there's a 50% chance of rain in that city.

Somehow, I feel cheated, but after thinking about it more it's a reasonable reporting system. I'm not convinced it's the best one though.

[Kirian]

Today I found out that when a forecast says "75% chance of rain", it doesn't mean "there is a 75% chance it will rain today." What it really means is "Given a uniformly random point in the city, the probability that point gets any rain today is 75%"

So for example, if there is huge storm covering half the city, and there is sunshine over the other half, then there's a 50% chance of rain in that city.

Somehow, I feel cheated, but after thinking about it more it's a reasonable reporting system. I'm not convinced it's the best one though.

Eh, not quite.  By the time it's raining over half the city, the 50% forecast is far in the past.  Also note that the reality is that "75% chance of rain" really means "given the current conditions, decades of data placed into models suggest that rain will happen on 75% of days that are preceded by these conditions."

And it's not just uniformly over a single city; prediction down to the kilometer just isn't a thing yet.  More like "within 40 km of selected coordinates."  Only once the system actually starts producing rain will you get a forecast resolution under 5 km, and even then it's for 15-30 minutes in the future.

[Awaclus]

And it's not just uniformly over a single city; prediction down to the kilometer just isn't a thing yet.  More like "within 40 km of selected coordinates."

Aren't "within 40 km of the selected coordinates" and "over a single city" not all that different, though?

[yuma]

http://dogeweather.com/

totally accurate up to this one time I have used it thus far...

[Kirian]

And it's not just uniformly over a single city; prediction down to the kilometer just isn't a thing yet.  More like "within 40 km of selected coordinates."

Aren't "within 40 km of the selected coordinates" and "over a single city" not all that different, though?

Where do you live that single cities are that big?  There are half a dozen large (>50k population) within 40 km of me, and another twenty or more with >25k population.  In my old place (less urban), there were only about 10 cities of >25k within 40 km, but it was a much less urbanized area... and the entire city plus true suburbs only covered about a 15 km square...

[Awaclus]

Where do you live that single cities are that big?  There are half a dozen large (>50k population) within 40 km of me, and another twenty or more with >25k population.  In my old place (less urban), there were only about 10 cities of >25k within 40 km, but it was a much less urbanized area... and the entire city plus true suburbs only covered about a 15 km square...

Here.

[Kirian]

Where do you live that single cities are that big?  There are half a dozen large (>50k population) within 40 km of me, and another twenty or more with >25k population.  In my old place (less urban), there were only about 10 cities of >25k within 40 km, but it was a much less urbanized area... and the entire city plus true suburbs only covered about a 15 km square...

Here.

Ah.  What you're calling a city is the size of of what we call a county.  The county I currently live in has a land area just about twice what Joensuu is... but 90% of it is uninhabited, and the 10% that's inhabited has 10 times as many people, divided among 20-ish cities, large and small.  Previously, I lived in a county about half the size of your city, with 90% of the people living in about a third of that area.

The largest city proper in the US is significantly smaller in area than your city.

[sitnaltax]

Question:  mammals can "breathe" temporarily in a perfluorocarbon.  Would fish also be able to do so, or would they "drown" in an otherwise oxygen-rich environment?  (Ignore for a moment the density; fish would float straight to the surface in current PFCs.)

My uninformed biology-enthusiast speculation is yes. My best googling suggests that fish die if you take them out of water because their gills collapse, so there's not enough surface area to transfer oxygen. So in an appropriate-density environment, a fish would be fine. I'm making the unfounded assumption that gills and lungs transfer oxygen in fundamentally the same way, differing mostly in the way they're adapted to handle the density and oxygen concentration of water vs. air.

Like mammals, I can't speak to the longer-term effects for fish. You wouldn't have the "this thick fluid is damaging the delicate lung tissue" issue, though.

[Kirian]

Best unboxing video ever:  The newest Mersenne prime!

[Tables]

I already had that number memorised by the time that video came out. The short form, not the long form, obviously. Ah well, I still feel geeky.

As an aside, how would you round 0.095 to one significant figure? Would you leave the answer as 0.1 (which has 1 significant figure) or as 0.10 (which seems to have two significant figures, but shows the level of accuracy you get from rounding the previous number to one significant figure)?

[Witherweaver]

I already had that number memorised by the time that video came out. The short form, not the long form, obviously. Ah well, I still feel geeky.

As an aside, how would you round 0.095 to one significant figure? Would you leave the answer as 0.1 (which has 1 significant figure) or as 0.10 (which seems to have two significant figures, but shows the level of accuracy you get from rounding the previous number to one significant figure)?

It seems pretty obviously 0.1.  Rounding to 0.10 would exactly be rounding to two significant figures.  It doesn't matter how many significant figures you start with. 

[Kirian]

Depends on how you want to look at things.

For typical coursework, the correct answer is 0.1 rather than 0.10.  The second one indicates two significant digits, as WW notes.

Outside of the classroom, the correct answer is really 0.10.  You want to indicate for your customer/client/whatever that the measurements made were precise to the hundredths place, even though rounding would nominally chop it to the tenths place.  This is because rounding is addition/subtraction, and addition can generate an extra significant digit when there's a carry.

On the other hand, you can also easily write 0.09(5) and be done with it.

[LastFootnote]

I don't understand. If you're going to specify two significant digits (0.10), then why would you round it at all!? 0.095 is also two significant digits and is more accurate!

[Kuildeous]

On the other hand, you can also easily write 0.09(5) and be done with it.

0.45?

[Witherweaver]

On the other hand, you can also easily write 0.09(5) and be done with it.

0.45?

0.45!

[enfynet]

On the other hand, you can also easily write 0.09(5) and be done with it.

0.45?

0.45!

So, half of 0.9 is 0.45!?

[Witherweaver]

On the other hand, you can also easily write 0.09(5) and be done with it.

0.45?

0.45!

So, half of 0.9 is 0.45!?

Not quite, 0.45! is about .8856613803.

[Kirian]

I don't understand. If you're going to specify two significant digits (0.10), then why would you round it at all!? 0.095 is also two significant digits and is more accurate!

Well, here's the thing.  Significant digits are a fiction.  They're a shorthand for something much more useful, but rather than deluging chemistry students (and let's face it, this is almost always first introduced in chemistry) with yet another complex calculation, we simplify it.

The reality is that "one significant digit" has the same meaning as "+-~10%".  Two significant digits is +-~1%, and so forth.  These aren't exactly right, as 40 +- 5 is different from 90 +- 5, but they're close

So if you multiply 0.3 (1 sd) by 0.32 (2 sd), you get 0.096, but should only keep 1 sd.  0.1 and done, right?  Well...

The reality is that these measurements really "mean" 0.3 +- 0.05, and 0.32 +- 0.005.  Or, as bounds, 0.25 to 0.35, and 0.315 to 0.325.  If we multiply the bounds, we have a range in the final answer of:

0.25 x 0.315 = 0.07875 to 0.35 x 0.325 = .11375 = 0.09625 +- 0.0175

When chopped down to the maximum sd (2) from earlier, this is 0.096 +- 0.018

Now, here's where significant digits become a problem:

One sd is 0.1, which implies 0.1 +- 0.05
Two sd is 0.096, which implies 0.096 +- 0.0005
If we write 0.10, that implies 0.1 +- 0.005

The actual uncertainty is somewhere between the first and the third.  What to use, then?  Let's use the actual answer, 0.096 +- 0.018.  That eliminates our uncertainty with respect to... uncertainty.

--------

So what's the real problem here, then?  Well, there are two.

First, if you only have one significant digit in one of your measurements, you don't need to use significant digits anyway; your measurement is all but useless.  In reality, "one significant digit" means "using the wrong measuring implement."

Second, significant digits are best used when all values being used have similar uncertainties.  If we were multiplying 0.35 (0.345 to 0.355) and 0.47 (0.465 to 0.475), with typical sd usage the answer is 0.16 (0.155 to 0.165), and with properly described uncertainty, the range is 0.1604 to 0.1686, or 0.164 +- 0.004.  Those ranges overlap a lot better than the ranges we had in the other problem.

[ashersky]

So what's the real problem here, then?  Well, there are two.

It's that no one cares.

[Witherweaver]

So what's the real problem here, then?  Well, there are two.

It's that no one cares.

Only no one to one significant digit, though.  Could be anywhere in [-0.5,0.5) people caring.

[Awaclus]

So what's the real problem here, then?  Well, there are two.

It's that no one cares.

90-93% of people care far more than people think.

[silverspawn]

So what's the real problem here, then?  Well, there are two.

It's that no one cares.

90-93% of people care far more than people think.

73,3% of all statistics are made up!

[Awaclus]

So what's the real problem here, then?  Well, there are two.

It's that no one cares.

90-93% of people care far more than people think.

73,3% of all statistics are made up!

Are you referring to my 90 - 93% estimate?

It's just an estimation but its probably not far off, its not important to be precise to the second decimal point here

In case you've missed it: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14521.0

[Tables]

I already had that number memorised by the time that video came out. The short form, not the long form, obviously. Ah well, I still feel geeky.

As an aside, how would you round 0.095 to one significant figure? Would you leave the answer as 0.1 (which has 1 significant figure) or as 0.10 (which seems to have two significant figures, but shows the level of accuracy you get from rounding the previous number to one significant figure)?

It seems pretty obviously 0.1.  Rounding to 0.10 would exactly be rounding to two significant figures.  It doesn't matter how many significant figures you start with. 

See, now that's interesting, because my intuition says 0.10 is the better answer here. You're still rounding to 1 sf, but the extra 0 implies an accuracy to within 0.005 either way - which is what you're actually within. The 0.1 answer has 1 sf but implies an uncertainty of 0.05, which is much larger than what you actually started with. On the other hand, it does only specify 1 significant figure, so I guess that it's a more true answer in the abstract sense - although usually less useful. So... I dunno. I can kinda see both sides though, I was wondering if there was an actual standard convention here.

I don't understand. If you're going to specify two significant digits (0.10), then why would you round it at all!? 0.095 is also two significant digits and is more accurate!

Same question but rounding 0.0952341245 instead then.

Edit: Now I think about it a little more though, considering that could also be rounded to 0.095 it doesn't really make much sense to use 0.10 over 0.95, even if 0.10 seems better than 0.1. Hmm. I think really this is just because rounding anything up to  the next order of magnitude just makes things horrible accuracy wise, most of the time. So yeah, 0.1 sounds like the best answer to me now, or at least it should be about 90-93% of the time.

[Witherweaver]

I already had that number memorised by the time that video came out. The short form, not the long form, obviously. Ah well, I still feel geeky.

As an aside, how would you round 0.095 to one significant figure? Would you leave the answer as 0.1 (which has 1 significant figure) or as 0.10 (which seems to have two significant figures, but shows the level of accuracy you get from rounding the previous number to one significant figure)?

It seems pretty obviously 0.1.  Rounding to 0.10 would exactly be rounding to two significant figures.  It doesn't matter how many significant figures you start with. 

See, now that's interesting, because my intuition says 0.10 is the better answer here. You're still rounding to 1 sf, but the extra 0 implies an accuracy to within 0.005 either way - which is what you're actually within. The 0.1 answer has 1 sf but implies an uncertainty of 0.05, which is much larger than what you actually started with. On the other hand, it does only specify 1 significant figure, so I guess that it's a more true answer in the abstract sense - although usually less useful. So... I dunno. I can kinda see both sides though, I was wondering if there was an actual standard convention here.

I mean, if you say 0.10 to one significant figure, that's not correct, you should be saying 0.1.  Saying 0.10 is giving two significant figures (by the regular school definition of significant figure).  Saying 0.100 would be three (though in this case you'd have 0.0950), etc.

[Limetime]

We shouldn't talk about significant digits, considering how short life is.

[Roadrunner7671]

I have a pro tip if you want to live a better life: don't mix grapefruit juice, flat club soda and tonic water then attempt to ingest it. It will end badly.

[enfynet]

A little something for Sunday brunch

[Witherweaver]

[Witherweaver]

So I was playing some Diablo III some time ago, and I noticed there was a name elite called "Alot" (i.e., from here).  It even looks a bit like the image in the comic.  It's pointed out as an Easter Egg:

http://www.diablowiki.net/Diablo_III_Easter_Eggs#Alot

They don't have a picture there, but:

[pacovf]

Hyperbole and a half is one of the funniest things on the Internet. So sad it's not updated anymore. Anybody know if the author is doing anything similar now?

[ashersky]

Is that Chumlee getting slapped?

[Kirian]

Hyperbole and a half is one of the funniest things on the Internet. So sad it's not updated anymore. Anybody know if the author is doing anything similar now?

Last I saw her, she was on Tabletop with Wil Wheaton... and disappeared again.  Depression is hell.

[Kuildeous]

Hyperbole and a half is one of the funniest things on the Internet. So sad it's not updated anymore. Anybody know if the author is doing anything similar now?

Last I saw her, she was on Tabletop with Wil Wheaton... and disappeared again.  Depression is hell.

Why must hilarious people suffer from depression? It's a cruel cosmic joke.

Her bit on moving with two dogs still gives me a mighty chuckle.

[Witherweaver]

Hyperbole and a half is one of the funniest things on the Internet. So sad it's not updated anymore. Anybody know if the author is doing anything similar now?

She's doing ALL THE STUFF

[Seprix]

Are you scared yet?

[silverspawn]

I just saw this thing. Not that I know much about Trump, but this made a lot of sense to me, and fits basically in what I suspected.

Thoughts?

[Teproc]

It just occured to me that Tactician really should be called Strategist.

[enfynet]

I just saw this thing. Not that I know much about Trump, but this made a lot of sense to me, and fits basically in what I suspected.

Thoughts?

That is impressive. I rarely understand what he is trying to say.

[eHalcyon]

I want to buy a new USB 3.0 cable for my Galaxy S5 charger (the cable that came with the phone is starting to fray).  There are lots of entries on Amazon for amazing prices... except many of the reviews suggest that they are actually cheap knock-offs.  Is there an easy way to find something that is verified authentic?

At this point I'm probably going to buy a non-Samsung cable from Best Buy.

Edit: Bahh, I'm just going to go buy the cable locally.  Even if I found something authentic, I don't want to keep using the frayed cable while waiting for shipping.

[Kirian]

http://www.iflscience.com/brain/nobody-has-been-able-solve-gchqs-christmas-card-puzzle

Come on, f.DS, I'm sure you brilliant minds can do this.

[Roadrunner7671]

http://www.iflscience.com/brain/nobody-has-been-able-solve-gchqs-christmas-card-puzzle

Come on, f.DS, I'm sure you brilliant minds can do this.

It's just a giant nonogram puzzle.

[Kirian]

http://www.iflscience.com/brain/nobody-has-been-able-solve-gchqs-christmas-card-puzzle

Come on, f.DS, I'm sure you brilliant minds can do this.

It's just a giant nonogram puzzle.

That's part 1, yes.

[Roadrunner7671]

http://www.iflscience.com/brain/nobody-has-been-able-solve-gchqs-christmas-card-puzzle

Come on, f.DS, I'm sure you brilliant minds can do this.

It's just a giant nonogram puzzle.

That's part 1, yes.

Oh, yes. You have to get through all the parts. I'm out.

[Kirian]

http://www.iflscience.com/brain/nobody-has-been-able-solve-gchqs-christmas-card-puzzle

Come on, f.DS, I'm sure you brilliant minds can do this.

It's just a giant nonogram puzzle.

That's part 1, yes.

Oh, yes. You have to get through all the parts. I'm out.

Notably, Part 5 actually has eleven separate parts.  But there's no part 6!

Part 5 at the Torygraph Telegraph:  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/12125576/GCHQ-Christmas-quiz-30000-entries-not-one-perfect-answer.html

[eHalcyon]

[sitnaltax]

I want to buy a new USB 3.0 cable for my Galaxy S5 charger (the cable that came with the phone is starting to fray).  There are lots of entries on Amazon for amazing prices... except many of the reviews suggest that they are actually cheap knock-offs.  Is there an easy way to find something that is verified authentic?

At this point I'm probably going to buy a non-Samsung cable from Best Buy.

Edit: Bahh, I'm just going to go buy the cable locally.  Even if I found something authentic, I don't want to keep using the frayed cable while waiting for shipping.

Monoprice is the place to go for cables and adapters of any kind. Inexpensive and fair quality.

[eHalcyon]

http://www.iflscience.com/brain/nobody-has-been-able-solve-gchqs-christmas-card-puzzle

Come on, f.DS, I'm sure you brilliant minds can do this.

Dunno about these puzzles, but I just purchased The Witness.  I'll see how that goes.

[Kuildeous]

Odds are that no one else will see this, but I inserted a comment in my code explaining a bit of an error check as, "Say, nice function you got here. Be an awful shame if something endless looped it."

[qmech]

An uncompromising way to deal with rhino poachers:

"They operate in four-man teams comprising a sniper, two riflemen, and a signaller," says Dyer. "They've got night vision gear and digital radios so if they need to, they can call in ground and air support."

The teams monitor 102 rhinos, but when they spot poachers, they don't arrest them. They don't even invite them to lay down their arms. Instead, they kill them - 19 so far, in split-second ambushes during which their victims probably never knew what hit them.

Dyer says this is the safest way to deal with men facing 25 years in prison if convicted.

"Technically we do have to offer them the opportunity to surrender," he adds, "but this tends to happen after they've been, er, incapacitated."

[Tables]

Man, I wish I could use this method to deal with kids causing problems in the new building at work. Would make things so much easier. A little paperwork to deal with maybe, but whatever no biggie.

[Awaclus]

Happy Chinese new year and may you all be prosperous in the year of the Monkey!

[blueblimp]

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/600689/we-have-the-technology-to-destroy-all-zika-mosquitoes/#/set/id/600732/

A controversial genetic technology able to wipe out the mosquito carrying the Zika virus will be available within months, scientists say.

[...]

With Zika sowing fear across Latin America and beyond, the technology is likely to get a closer look. “Four weeks ago we were trying to justify why we are doing this. Now they’re saying ‘Get the lead out,’” says James.

The pace of genetic tech progress at the moment is pretty amazing.

[Tables]

Guitar Hero Live is pretty fun. I highly recommend not buying it.

[Kuildeous]

At first I was thrilled with the possibly new trend of morphing old-timey PSA videos into the stuff of nightmares. Then I saw that this was done 5 years ago. I'm kind of sad it didn't catch on.

[Kirian]

You Don't Know Jack is now old enough to drink, yet is still the only trivia game worth playing.

[eHalcyon]

http://www.iflscience.com/brain/nobody-has-been-able-solve-gchqs-christmas-card-puzzle

Come on, f.DS, I'm sure you brilliant minds can do this.

Dunno about these puzzles, but I just purchased The Witness.  I'll see how that goes.

The Witness was great.  Has anybody else played?

[Elanchana]

The adventures of Ela playing King of Sopio


My first time near the top of the leaderboard (that 33333 user must be a hacker)


Well, 'least I'm in good company...


Oh, cOME ON!!!!


hashtag got there

[Witherweaver]

[silverspawn]

 

I can relate to that.

[Roadrunner7671]

Why is Ela assuming that 'Roadrunner' is me? There could be any number of Roadrunners running around out there!

[Burning Skull]

Why is Ela assuming that 'Roadrunner' is me? There could be any number of Roadrunners running around out there!

I bet Ela was actually referring to that Kai guy.

[sudgy]

Once, somebody mentioned that where they were from it was zero degrees, and I asked whether it was Fahrenheit or Celsius.  Zero degrees makes so much more sense to be Celsius, so that's why I asked, even though I'm in America.  Everybody was like, "What?!?  That doesn't even make sense!"  Somebody even got kind of mad at me for "showing off how much I know".

[Awaclus]

Once, somebody mentioned that where they were from it was zero degrees, and I asked whether it was Fahrenheit or Celsius.  Zero degrees makes so much more sense to be Celsius, so that's why I asked, even though I'm in America.  Everybody was like, "What?!?  That doesn't even make sense!"  Somebody even got kind of mad at me for "showing off how much I know".

Why does zero degrees make so much more sense to be Celsius? Unless they were talking about how hard it was to drive or something.

[Witherweaver]

Once, somebody mentioned that where they were from it was zero degrees, and I asked whether it was Fahrenheit or Celsius.  Zero degrees makes so much more sense to be Celsius, so that's why I asked, even though I'm in America.  Everybody was like, "What?!?  That doesn't even make sense!"  Somebody even got kind of mad at me for "showing off how much I know".

0F is a significant cutoff for talking about extreme temperatures in Winter.  (It's arbitrary, but still notable because of 0 as a number itself.) Reaching negative Fahrenheit is pretty cold, so it's of note when it happens.  Hitting 0C is much more common unless you're fairly far south (in the US).

[ashersky]

Fuck celsiums

[2.71828.....]

Watching ashersky go through checking f.ds while drunk. Starts in forum games, moves to random stuff, before going to "Interview with Donald X"

Can't wait to see where he goes next.  *insert popcorn eating guy meme but I am on my phone and that is too much hassle*

[2.71828.....]

And yes, sitting in an airport for 5 hours or so gets boring.

[LastFootnote]

Watching ashersky go through checking f.ds while drunk. Starts in forum games, moves to random stuff, before going to "Interview with Donald X"

Can't wait to see where he goes next.  *insert popcorn eating guy meme but I am on my phone and that is too much hassle*

For a second I thought you meant ashersky was drunk. I was like, "How do you know this?" Maybe he's in the airport too and you're watching over his shoulder as he browses f.DS?

[ashersky]

Watching ashersky go through checking f.ds while drunk. Starts in forum games, moves to random stuff, before going to "Interview with Donald X"

Can't wait to see where he goes next.  *insert popcorn eating guy meme but I am on my phone and that is too much hassle*

For a second I thought you meant ashersky was drunk. I was like, "How do you know this?" Maybe he's in the airport too and you're watching over his shoulder as he browses f.DS?

Holy shit lol duck lip lol

[Roadrunner7671]

Watching ashersky go through checking f.ds while drunk. Starts in forum games, moves to random stuff, before going to "Interview with Donald X"

Can't wait to see where he goes next.  *insert popcorn eating guy meme but I am on my phone and that is too much hassle*

For a second I thought you meant ashersky was drunk. I was like, "How do you know this?" Maybe he's in the airport too and you're watching over his shoulder as he browses f.DS?

Nah he said so in our mafia game.

How dare you mention current Mafia games!!!

[Roadrunner7671]

Watching ashersky go through checking f.ds while drunk. Starts in forum games, moves to random stuff, before going to "Interview with Donald X"

Can't wait to see where he goes next.  *insert popcorn eating guy meme but I am on my phone and that is too much hassle*

For a second I thought you meant ashersky was drunk. I was like, "How do you know this?" Maybe he's in the airport too and you're watching over his shoulder as he browses f.DS?

Nah he said so in our mafia game.

How dare you mention current Mafia games!!!

Good point I deleted it

It wasn't a big deal!

[liopoil]

It's been quoted in the last several posts, so.

[2.71828.....]

It's been quoted in the last several posts, so.

Yeah, you quoted it in the post saying you deleted it....

[Roadrunner7671]

It's been quoted in the last several posts, so.

So it's a good thing it wasn't a big deal.

[liopoil]

It's been quoted in the last several posts, so.

Yeah, you quoted it in the post saying you deleted it....

Good point, I have now deleted that post and reported posts by other people which I'm sure will be deleted any second now.

[Roadrunner7671]

It's been quoted in the last several posts, so.

Yeah, you quoted it in the post saying you deleted it....

Good point, I have now deleted that post and reported posts by other people which I'm sure will be deleted any second now.

What?

[KingZog3]

Didn't realize random stuff went into a third thread...

[liopoil]

It's been quoted in the last several posts, so.

Yeah, you quoted it in the post saying you deleted it....

Good point, I have now deleted that post and reported posts by other people which I'm sure will be deleted any second now.

What?

You clearly didn't see anything.

[Roadrunner7671]

It's been quoted in the last several posts, so.

Yeah, you quoted it in the post saying you deleted it....

Good point, I have now deleted that post and reported posts by other people which I'm sure will be deleted any second now.

What?

You clearly didn't see anything.

What was there to see?

[iguanaiguana]

It's been quoted in the last several posts, so.

Yeah, you quoted it in the post saying you deleted it....

Good point, I deleted it.

[Teproc]

Fahrenheit is awful, as are all imperial systems.

That being said, the guy in the xkcd comic should definitely use Fahrenheit in that case, using Celsius accomplishes nothing if everyone around you is used to Fahrenheit, it's not like you're going to change the world by being a douche.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Any tips for someone going away to university for the first time?
It'll be my first time living on my own and all.

[pacovf]

Will you be living in a residence?

[Ichimaru Gin]

Will you be living in a residence?

Yeah. I'll be living on campus.

[Tables]

Does anyone even really use Fahrenheit nowadays? I know the conversion from Celsius to Farenheit is F = 9C/5 + 32 (and vice versa) but... I couldn't tell you how hot something like 70F or 50F or whatever was intuitively, I'd need to actually shove it into the formula to get it in a quantity that I understand and that people actually use.

[liopoil]

Does anyone even really use Fahrenheit nowadays? I know the conversion from Celsius to Farenheit is F = 9C/5 + 32 (and vice versa) but... I couldn't tell you how hot something like 70F or 50F or whatever was intuitively, I'd need to actually shove it into the formula to get it in a quantity that I understand and that people actually use.

Yes, in America I only had intuition for Farenheit until recently. Now I've done the conversion enough times that I have a decent intuition for Celsius too, but all the weather stations etc. are in Farenheit here.

[Kirian]

Does anyone even really use Fahrenheit nowadays? I know the conversion from Celsius to Farenheit is F = 9C/5 + 32 (and vice versa) but... I couldn't tell you how hot something like 70F or 50F or whatever was intuitively, I'd need to actually shove it into the formula to get it in a quantity that I understand and that people actually use.

Come visit the United States, though check your vaccinations first and be prepared for a stay in a third-world backward country.

[Witherweaver]

Fahrenheit is awful, as are all imperial systems.

That being said, the guy in the xkcd comic should definitely use Fahrenheit in that case, using Celsius accomplishes nothing if everyone around you is used to Fahrenheit, it's not like you're going to change the world by being a douche.

You an make the world a cleaner place.

[pacovf]

Will you be living in a residence?

Yeah. I'll be living on campus.

You'll be fine. Socialize with the people on your floor, get into a club/association or two, try new things, know your limits with alcohol, don't overspend, don't forget to talk to your parents from time to time, enjoy the best years of your life, etc., etc.

[LastFootnote]

Fahrenheit is awful, as are all imperial systems.

I think a very persuasive argument can be made that most imperial systems are way worse than the corresponding metric systems. Not so much for temperature. The real metric system there would be to report all temperatures in Kelvin. But that's not as useful for the range temperatures that we actually experience in day-to-day life. Celsius is better for that, but so is Fahrenheit. It's way easier to convert between Kelvin and Celsius than it is to convert between Kelvin and Fahrenheit, but that doesn't matter at all if you're not doing that conversion.

[Kirian]

Will you be living in a residence?

Yeah. I'll be living on campus.

You'll be fine. Socialize with the people on your floor, get into a club/association or two, try new things, know your limits with alcohol, don't overspend, don't forget to talk to your parents from time to time, enjoy the best years of your life, etc., etc.

Just make sure to use the prevailing temperature system for your country/region.

[iguanaiguana]

Will you be living in a residence?

Yeah. I'll be living on campus.

You'll be fine. Socialize with the people on your floor, get into a club/association or two, try new things, know your limits with alcohol, don't overspend, don't forget to talk to your parents from time to time, enjoy the best years of your life, etc., etc.

Just make sure to use the prevailing temperature system for your country/region.

fuck celsiums!

[Ichimaru Gin]

Will you be living in a residence?

Yeah. I'll be living on campus.

You'll be fine. Socialize with the people on your floor, get into a club/association or two, try new things, know your limits with alcohol, don't overspend, don't forget to talk to your parents from time to time, enjoy the best years of your life, etc., etc.

Just make sure to use the prevailing temperature system for your country/region.

I'm in the US, but I had chem last semester. SI units are sooooooooo much nicer to use for dimensional analysis.

[liopoil]

The real metric system there would be to report all temperatures in Kelvin. But that's not as useful for the range temperatures that we actually experience in day-to-day life. Celsius is better for that, but so is Fahrenheit.

I get that Kelvin is more fundamental scientifically because its 0 actually means something, but I don't see why it would be the 'real metric system'. Celsius has a better argument to make for the whole base-10 thing because of 0 and 100, and well the properties of water at one atmosphere of pressure are relevant for every day life. It's not like the meter or kilogram are special scientifically either, the thing which makes them better is the easy conversion by changing the exponent of 10.

[scott_pilgrim]

Any tips for someone going away to university for the first time?
It'll be my first time living on my own and all.

1. The most important thing, I think, is to remember that you're there to learn.  You're not there to get grades, or get a degree, or make friends, or do fun stuff.  You should do those things too, but that's not why you're going to university.  So you should take classes in areas that you like, even if they're hard, or if you hate the professor.  One of my biggest regrets in college was dropping an analysis class in the first week because some people said it was the hardest class in the school.  Another one of my biggest regrets was giving up on learning abstract algebra because I (and everyone else) hated the professor.  I don't regret it because I did badly in the class, but because I still had access to textbooks and classmates that could have helped me to learn the material better, and I didn't take advantage of that to learn something that I really love.  So even if you can't improve your grades, if you like the subject content in the class, take advantage of your university's resources to learn that material as best you can.

Sort of along with this point, you should find opportunities to build skills related to your major outside of classes.  There was a math club at my school that I never participated in, because I thought, I'm majoring in math, why would I make myself do more math.  But now I wish that I had done so, because a. it gives you opportunities to learn things or solve problems you would never get to do in class, b. it gives you chances to meet people with similar interests, and c. leading into my next point, it might give you opportunities to make good impressions on a professor.

2. Try to pick one or two professors that you get along with, and/or whose class(es) you know you're doing well in, and make an effort to make sure they know who you are (by asking lots of questions/giving lots of answers/contributing to discussions in class, and/or by speaking to them outside of class).  That way, when you're applying for jobs and/or grad school, you have someone you know will write you a strong recommendation.  It may sound hard if you're shy (like me), but if you're shy, it'll be harder to approach professors who don't know you and ask for recommendations.  (That being said, if you don't take this advice, don't feel discouraged about asking professors for recommendations later if you need them.)

3. Make some friends, and spend time studying with them and hanging out with them.  You don't have to make a lot of friends.  Personally I think a few really close friends is better than a lot of distant friends, but this is sort of an introvert vs. extrovert thing I think.  Studying with friends is a really good habit to get into.  It's more fun than studying by yourself, and both you and the friend(s) you're studying with will learn more than when you study by yourself, AND you'll finish whatever you're working on faster.

Okay so how do you make friends?  For me, I joined a few clubs and made almost all of my friends through those.  That was easy because my school had an insane amount of clubs and organizations (in the 200's I think), so pretty much anything you could be interested in (like board games and Smash Bros.), my school had a club for it.  It's easy to make friends who share common interests.  But outside of clubs, you can also make friends just by hanging out somewhere and doing things you enjoy.  Just go play Dominion online in a public place, and if someone else who likes Dominion sees you, they'll stop and talk to you about it.  For some reason my experience is that college students are friendlier and easier to get along with than other people.  I was playing sporcle before class one time and some guy behind me I'd never met before just started whispering answers to me.  I'm not sure why I brought up that example, I just thought it was funny.

4. Don't go into college expecting to meet your dream girl (or guy if you're homosexual, but girl again if you're a girl, but guy if you're a straight girl, or either one if you're bisexual, I think I've covered all my bases).  You might, a lot of people do, and if you do that's great.  But it's not necessary for having a good time in college, and it's bad to have a perspective of "I need a girl/boyfriend to be happy".

I don't drink or party in general, so it's not really fair for me to say this, but I think that aspect of college is overrated.  If you spend time with friends doing stuff you love, college will be the best time of your life.

I'm just going to reiterate my first point because I think it's really important.  You're not at school to get good grades or get a degree.  Those are just formalities that tell potential hirers or grad schools that you've learned what you say you've learned.  You're there to learn new stuff.  Having this perspective should help to relieve you from some of the stress that comes with difficult classes and tough workload, while also helping you to learn more efficiently (because you'll be studying for the sake of learning, and not for the sake of passing a test).

[Ichimaru Gin]

Wow. Thanks for the great advice! I've actually never drank before...and I'm not really planning on it I guess? I agree that it seems like a hugely overrated part of college life, though of course I've never experienced it myself. I'm straight (thanks for covering all those bases though  ), and I appreciate the admonition about the expectations of meeting a possible life partner in school--as I definitely have/had that expectation. I must admit, I'd probably be a bit sad if I was finished with college without meeting someone "special" or whatever. I'm not a terribly outgoing person, and it seems like it's difficult to meet people once you're out of school? Or so it seems to me at least.

Up to this point in my academic career, I have been really focused on my GPA. I really appreciate your take on the true purpose of education, as I sometimes do feel a bit cynical about things and have almost certainly avoided some courses in order to protect my grades. I do feel really passionate about my major though (computer science). It took me a while in community college to really settle on what felt right for me, but I find the subject matter incredibly engaging, so that's a positive.

[Kirian]

Dammit, I just realized I'm supposed to be the high school teacher giving out life advice.  Falling down on the job here.  Tomorrow, perhaps, though scott_pilgrim said a lot of good things already.

[enfynet]

Once, somebody mentioned that where they were from it was zero degrees, and I asked whether it was Fahrenheit or Celsius.  Zero degrees makes so much more sense to be Celsius, so that's why I asked, even though I'm in America.  Everybody was like, "What?!?  That doesn't even make sense!"  Somebody even got kind of mad at me for "showing off how much I know".

0F is a significant cutoff for talking about extreme temperatures in Winter.  (It's arbitrary, but still notable because of 0 as a number itself.) Reaching negative Fahrenheit is pretty cold, so it's of note when it happens.  Hitting 0C is much more common unless you're fairly far south (in the US).

I like to think -40° is quite significant too. But you've got to travel pretty far north for that.

[Teproc]

Fahrenheit is awful, as are all imperial systems.

I think a very persuasive argument can be made that most imperial systems are way worse than the corresponding metric systems. Not so much for temperature. The real metric system there would be to report all temperatures in Kelvin. But that's not as useful for the range temperatures that we actually experience in day-to-day life. Celsius is better for that, but so is Fahrenheit. It's way easier to convert between Kelvin and Celsius than it is to convert between Kelvin and Fahrenheit, but that doesn't matter at all if you're not doing that conversion.

I almost concluded that post by saying Kelvin was the best anyway, Celsius simply being the more convenient in everyday life version of Kelvin.

[Tables]

The real metric system there would be to report all temperatures in Kelvin. But that's not as useful for the range temperatures that we actually experience in day-to-day life. Celsius is better for that, but so is Fahrenheit.

I get that Kelvin is more fundamental scientifically because its 0 actually means something, but I don't see why it would be the 'real metric system'. Celsius has a better argument to make for the whole base-10 thing because of 0 and 100, and well the properties of water at one atmosphere of pressure are relevant for every day life. It's not like the meter or kilogram are special scientifically either, the thing which makes them better is the easy conversion by changing the exponent of 10.

In metric systems, correct me if I'm wrong, but multiplying something always means you that multiple amount of it. Double 10 metres and you're travelling twice as far. Triple 10 kilograms and you have something three times as massive. Double 10 degrees Celsius and you don't get something twice as hot. But if you multiply 30 Kelvin by 3, you do get something three times as hot. So that's a pretty reasonable argument for using Kelvin as the standard unit.

[Witherweaver]

(snip)

Very important.  Learning is really all that matters.

[Witherweaver]

Once, somebody mentioned that where they were from it was zero degrees, and I asked whether it was Fahrenheit or Celsius.  Zero degrees makes so much more sense to be Celsius, so that's why I asked, even though I'm in America.  Everybody was like, "What?!?  That doesn't even make sense!"  Somebody even got kind of mad at me for "showing off how much I know".

0F is a significant cutoff for talking about extreme temperatures in Winter.  (It's arbitrary, but still notable because of 0 as a number itself.) Reaching negative Fahrenheit is pretty cold, so it's of note when it happens.  Hitting 0C is much more common unless you're fairly far south (in the US).

I like to think -40° is quite significant too. But you've got to travel pretty far north for that.

It is, but it doesn't happen much in most of America.

[silverspawn]

Probably the most interesting thing I read about for university was a differentiation of the existing type of scales. I don't know the english terms, but...

type 0 - distribute things to other things (e.g. persons to their nationality)
type 1 - also have a defined order (e.g. ranks after a tournament)
type 2 - also have sensible distances (e.g. degree celsius)
type 3 - also have zero be the real zero, which gives you sensible proportions (e.g. other metric units, degree Kelvin)
type 4 - also have your number be the real number rather than a measure (e.g. # of people in a region)

The book also said that school grades (at least in Germany) are only type 1, making it mathematically nonsensical to calculate their mean. Instead, they suggest you add up points of all tests during the year and then map their sum onto a grade.

so yeah, celsius is inferior to kelvin in that way.

[Witherweaver]

Wow. Thanks for the great advice! I've actually never drank before...and I'm not really planning on it I guess? I agree that it seems like a hugely overrated part of college life, though of course I've never experienced it myself. I'm straight (thanks for covering all those bases though  ), and I appreciate the admonition about the expectations of meeting a possible life partner in school--as I definitely have/had that expectation. I must admit, I'd probably be a bit sad if I was finished with college without meeting someone "special" or whatever. I'm not a terribly outgoing person, and it seems like it's difficult to meet people once you're out of school? Or so it seems to me at least.

Up to this point in my academic career, I have been really focused on my GPA. I really appreciate your take on the true purpose of education, as I sometimes do feel a bit cynical about things and have almost certainly avoided some courses in order to protect my grades. I do feel really passionate about my major though (computer science). It took me a while in community college to really settle on what felt right for me, but I find the subject matter incredibly engaging, so that's a positive.

I never drank until I was 29, almost 30.  It has helped a lot for dating (well, maybe).. a little bit for other social life.  Otherwise, it's highly overrated.

If you do decide to start drinking, do so for actual taste and not just for the sake of drinking alcohol.  Avoid people that want to 'get drunk'.  At least, that's my advice. 

[Kuildeous]

And if you're sensitive to the taste of alcohol like I am, then you won't be in much mood to drink much anyway.

So I generally don't drink for the taste, though I confess a pretty high tolerance for White Russians and Amaretto Sours. Most drinks I can taste the alcohol, which ruins it for me. If I do go for the alcohol, I just do shots. Might as well get that bad taste all over with in a quick gulp.

But I agree that it's not necessary to get drunk just to get drunk. Yeah, it can feel good and loosen you up, but one shouldn't have to rely on it. Everybody handles stress differently. My wife likes to drink a margarita after a rough day at work. I guess I'm perfectly content chilling in front of the computer and playing a game to unwind.

[iguanaiguana]

Wow. Thanks for the great advice! I've actually never drank before...and I'm not really planning on it I guess? I agree that it seems like a hugely overrated part of college life, though of course I've never experienced it myself. I'm straight (thanks for covering all those bases though  ), and I appreciate the admonition about the expectations of meeting a possible life partner in school--as I definitely have/had that expectation. I must admit, I'd probably be a bit sad if I was finished with college without meeting someone "special" or whatever. I'm not a terribly outgoing person, and it seems like it's difficult to meet people once you're out of school? Or so it seems to me at least.

Up to this point in my academic career, I have been really focused on my GPA. I really appreciate your take on the true purpose of education, as I sometimes do feel a bit cynical about things and have almost certainly avoided some courses in order to protect my grades. I do feel really passionate about my major though (computer science). It took me a while in community college to really settle on what felt right for me, but I find the subject matter incredibly engaging, so that's a positive.

If your university has a climbing wall, go climbing!!!

[yuma]

Any tips for someone going away to university for the first time?
It'll be my first time living on my own and all.

Some good advice has already been given, but I'll add a couple of additional points that I feel somewhat strongly about. Keep in mind that I have spoken to others who feel completely the opposite of what I am about to say, but I will try to back up my statement with an argument that I believe to be convincing.

Get a job (if possible). If it isn't possible explore the possibility. If it isn't possible. Volunteer, a lot!

I didn't work for money. I mean, I got paid and that was nice. But I already had a scholarship and living expenses were covered as well. So money wasn't an issue. I know it is for some people and part-time jobs are necessary for getting an education, hopefully you aren't in that boat.

The experience I received was extremely beneficial. More so to the point that it stopped me from pursuing careers that I would have ended up absolutely hating. I had four jobs during my college years.

One working for the university paper when I thought I wanted to be a journalist. One working as a TA when I thought I wanted to be a teacher/professor. One working a secretary in a law office when I thought I wanted to go into law. One as a lab assistant when I thought I wanted to be a laboratory scientist and the career I ultimately stuck with and continue to really enjoy.

While I didn't hate the first three jobs I quickly saw and realized that I would not enjoy a long, lasting career in those professions and was quickly able to course correct my education/major/job to something different.

My wife (who I ended up marrying toward the end of college did the same, but that is a separate situation and one that others have already talked about) and it was just as beneficial to her. We both refused to work full time. I for one saw way too many students as a TA who did work full time either fail classes or drop out completely. But we were able to graduate with $10,000 saved between us. That allowed enormous flexibility when it came to actually choosing a job to get into as neither of us felt compelled to say yes to the first crappy job that came along offering really low pay and was part of the chunk that we used to make a large(r) down payment on our first house. But the money was just a fridge benefit.

As others have said, the purpose of college is to learn. So if a college job starts to become more important than learning, it isn't being done right. But if you can use a job to learn about a prospective career and make some money on the side while enhancing your education, I say absolutely go for it.

[Witherweaver]

Regarding job, most colleges have some sort of work study program, where you can work at one of the college offices.  That's what I did, through the tutoring center.  The pay was small, but it's also manageable hours, and it was something I liked doing.

Additionally, the learning center at my undergrad college had a bulletin board for external tutoring opportunities (not current students).  They'd call and leave their number, and anyone could take the info and contact them, and set up independent things.  That's how  I earned a lot of my money in undergrad.

Of course, Yuma has a point of looking into careers that you're actually interested in.  For me, I new I was going to grad school pretty soon after I started, and already knew what I intended with my degree, so it wasn't as important to look into particular industries. 

Edit: On the other hand, I had no savings when I graduated college, nor when I finished grad school. 

[liopoil]

The real metric system there would be to report all temperatures in Kelvin. But that's not as useful for the range temperatures that we actually experience in day-to-day life. Celsius is better for that, but so is Fahrenheit.

I get that Kelvin is more fundamental scientifically because its 0 actually means something, but I don't see why it would be the 'real metric system'. Celsius has a better argument to make for the whole base-10 thing because of 0 and 100, and well the properties of water at one atmosphere of pressure are relevant for every day life. It's not like the meter or kilogram are special scientifically either, the thing which makes them better is the easy conversion by changing the exponent of 10.

In metric systems, correct me if I'm wrong, but multiplying something always means you that multiple amount of it. Double 10 metres and you're travelling twice as far. Triple 10 kilograms and you have something three times as massive. Double 10 degrees Celsius and you don't get something twice as hot. But if you multiply 30 Kelvin by 3, you do get something three times as hot. So that's a pretty reasonable argument for using Kelvin as the standard unit.

Oh hey - it's like it's actually a measure! (well, in the sense of additivity; total kinetic energy (heat) would work better since it isn't averaged). That's certainly a good reason to call it metric. Thanks, it just clicked. In fact I remember always having to convert Celsius to Kelvin in chemistry class for this very reason.

[pacovf]

Oh, something else about university: you might feel very lost in your courses for a term or two, the difference with high school can be quite a shock. It's perfectly normal! Don't despair or think that you are worthless and everybody else is smarter than you. I mean, obviously there will always be people that are smarter than you, but most will feel just as lost as you do. Just keep calm and carry on. I'll repeat scott_pilgrim's advice about working with other students, it really helps with productivity and motivation.

[Witherweaver]

Oh, something else about university: you might feel very lost in your courses for a term or two, the difference with high school can be quite a shock. It's perfectly normal! Don't despair or think that you are worthless and everybody else is smarter than you. I mean, obviously there will always be people that are smarter than you, but most will feel just as lost as you do. Just keep calm and carry on. I'll repeat scott_pilgrim's advice about working with other students, it really helps with productivity and motivation.

Fun story from my first analysis course.  This was the first course I ever had that was actually difficult.  My first homework got utterly torn apart by the instructor because I had written like you might for a basic Calculus course or something, not using real sentences or anything.  I was also heavily overloading that semester, so I was pretty sleep deprived all the time.  Anyway, four or five of us in the class used to get together to work on the homework, and we were all pretty equally lackluster.  (We were allowed to collaborate in such a manner, by the way.)  Maybe if the homework had 50 points, we were getting low or mid 30's.  I don't remember gaining anything from those study sessions.  For the last two or three homeworks, I ended up just not going with the other people and going off by myself to work on the problems.  All of the sudden, more scores jump up like 10 points and I actually understand what's going on.

Working with other students can be helpful, but it can also be a distraction. 

[Joseph2302]

Wow. Thanks for the great advice! I've actually never drank before...and I'm not really planning on it I guess? I agree that it seems like a hugely overrated part of college life, though of course I've never experienced it myself. I'm straight (thanks for covering all those bases though  ), and I appreciate the admonition about the expectations of meeting a possible life partner in school--as I definitely have/had that expectation. I must admit, I'd probably be a bit sad if I was finished with college without meeting someone "special" or whatever. I'm not a terribly outgoing person, and it seems like it's difficult to meet people once you're out of school? Or so it seems to me at least.

Up to this point in my academic career, I have been really focused on my GPA. I really appreciate your take on the true purpose of education, as I sometimes do feel a bit cynical about things and have almost certainly avoided some courses in order to protect my grades. I do feel really passionate about my major though (computer science). It took me a while in community college to really settle on what felt right for me, but I find the subject matter incredibly engaging, so that's a positive.

I never drank until I was 29, almost 30.  It has helped a lot for dating (well, maybe).. a little bit for other social life.  Otherwise, it's highly overrated.

If you do decide to start drinking, do so for actual taste and not just for the sake of drinking alcohol.  Avoid people that want to 'get drunk'.  At least, that's my advice.

Agree, I spent most of uni not drinking, and worked fine for me (other than living in a house with Tables).
And if you do want to start drinking, I recommend trying different things out, to see what you like.
Also, don't leave your assignments until the last day before starting them- lots of people do, but it's just unnecessary stress.

[Awaclus]

If you do decide to start drinking, do so for actual taste and not just for the sake

I see what you did there.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Oh, something else about university: you might feel very lost in your courses for a term or two, the difference with high school can be quite a shock. It's perfectly normal! Don't despair or think that you are worthless and everybody else is smarter than you. I mean, obviously there will always be people that are smarter than you, but most will feel just as lost as you do. Just keep calm and carry on. I'll repeat scott_pilgrim's advice about working with other students, it really helps with productivity and motivation.

Yeah. I've already been going to community college for a while,  and I'm transferring in as a junior. I'm sure university classes will still be significantly more difficult though. I'm sure it will take me a while to be ok with not getting A's.

[iguanaiguana]

Oh, something else about university: you might feel very lost in your courses for a term or two, the difference with high school can be quite a shock. It's perfectly normal! Don't despair or think that you are worthless and everybody else is smarter than you. I mean, obviously there will always be people that are smarter than you, but most will feel just as lost as you do. Just keep calm and carry on. I'll repeat scott_pilgrim's advice about working with other students, it really helps with productivity and motivation.

Yeah. I've already been going to community college for a while,  and I'm transferring in as a junior. I'm sure university classes will still be significantly more difficult though. I'm sure it will take me a while to be ok with not getting A's.

You seem like a smart guy, you can probably still get mostly A's if you try hard enough.

[enfynet]

The only effort increase I saw between Community College and University was in travel time. However, the larger difference was in the lack of flexibility offered by the university. I had multiple classes either cancelled or had their days changed after I registered. As I was focused on my major, my three options were: pay for useless credits and maintain health insurance, work two days less per week and hope I could not go broke, or take less classes and throw off my plan to complete the necessary (once-per-year) courses.

Needless to say, I have been on a University hiatus for nearly 10 years, with my BS degree waiting. The downside of my college->university transition is that I spent 6 years, full time, in school and still need 2 full years of courses to complete my major.

[pacovf]

If you do decide to start drinking, do so for actual taste and not just for the sake

I see what you did there.

WW had the right spirit.

[Seprix]

So I heard Dominion: Empires was coming out...



(EDIT: I was not aware of any drama at the time of creating this. If I knew, I would have done something completely different.)

[markusin]

Woah, Random Stuff Part III? When are we going to release the trilogy on Blu-ray?

[2.71828.....]

Woah, Random Stuff Part III? When are we going to release the trilogy on Blu-ray?

Once this thread gets 100+ posts

[2.71828.....]

Correction: pages

[Kirian]

Woah, Random Stuff Part III? When are we going to release the trilogy on Blu-ray?

Once this thread gets 100+ posts

Don't forget the two years spent adding a bunch of shit CGI no one wanted.

[markusin]

Woah, Random Stuff Part III? When are we going to release the trilogy on Blu-ray?

Once this thread gets 100+ posts

Don't forget the two years spent adding a bunch of shit CGI no one wanted.

I literally laughed out loud after reading this. A rare feat!

[qmech]

[pacovf]

If you do decide to start drinking, do so for actual taste and not just for the sake

I see what you did there.

WW had the right spirit.

I kinda want to wine about this barley getting upvoted.

[Kuildeous]

I literally laughed out loud after reading this. A rare feat!

Now I want to use an acronym LLOL to include literally. But I rarely LLOL, so I'll probably never type it (except for here).

[Witherweaver]

I literally laughed out loud after reading this. A rare feat!

Now I want to use an acronym LLOL to include literally. But I rarely LLOL, so I'll probably never type it (except for here).

Laugh literally out loud?

Laugh loudly or literally?

Literally loud overture (of) laughter?

Laudanum literally originates laughter?

[KingZog3]

I literally laughed out loud after reading this. A rare feat!

Now I want to use an acronym LLOL to include literally. But I rarely LLOL, so I'll probably never type it (except for here).

Laugh literally out loud?

Laugh loudly or literally?

Literally loud overture (of) laughter?

Laudanum literally originates laughter?

Pretty sure it means Let's Lose our Legs

[Witherweaver]

I literally laughed out loud after reading this. A rare feat!

Now I want to use an acronym LLOL to include literally. But I rarely LLOL, so I'll probably never type it (except for here).

Laugh literally out loud?

Laugh loudly or literally?

Literally loud overture (of) laughter?

Laudanum literally originates laughter?

Pretty sure it means Let's Lose our Legs

He said he wanted 'literally' in there.  Literally lose our legs?  Literally loose our legs?  Literally loosen our legs?

[Kuildeous]

Laugh literally out loud?

Laugh loudly or literally?

Literally loud overture (of) laughter?

Laudanum literally originates laughter?

LOLL

[Kuildeous]

Whew, dodged a bullet, but it would have been one I fired myself.

A local production of the Nerd apparently lost their leading man, so they were in desperate need of a replacement. The show opens in under 4 weeks. That would have been a helluva rehearsal schedule. I'm sure I would have been up for the challenge, but I'm glad I hemmed and hawed and allowed someone else to step forward. I'm not certain I really want that stress, though it would have been exciting.

[Tables]

I haven't really been in the main Dominion discussion part of the board much these last few days but it looks like there's been some kind of drama going on? A ton of locked posts and threads reaching 5+ pages in a day or two. What's happening, in short?

[Witherweaver]

I haven't really been in the main Dominion discussion part of the board much these last few days but it looks like there's been some kind of drama going on? A ton of locked posts and threads reaching 5+ pages in a day or two. What's happening, in short?

People were quoting from ongoing Mafia games. 

[Kirian]

I haven't really been in the main Dominion discussion part of the board much these last few days but it looks like there's been some kind of drama going on? A ton of locked posts and threads reaching 5+ pages in a day or two. What's happening, in short?

In short:  Drama, and you don't want to know more.

[Roadrunner7671]

I haven't really been in the main Dominion discussion part of the board much these last few days but it looks like there's been some kind of drama going on? A ton of locked posts and threads reaching 5+ pages in a day or two. What's happening, in short?

A tangled web was weaved, but I will explain it as well as I possibly can. Keep in mind that I am quite the biased/influential individual.

In short, AdamH was frustrated because league moderators didn't want him to commentate the match, and apparently the personally insulted him by PM (this has not been confirmed and probably never will be). A lot of people sided with people other than Adam, which obviously made him more frustrated.

WanderingWinder then left the forum.
Then Schadd made his funny post about how there was nothing going on between him and assemble_me.
Then J Reggie made a nice, feel good post about how the forum was so great.
J Reggie's post was the only one that wasn't locked. 

[2.71828.....]

I liked Kirian's explanation much better than RR's.

[Tables]

I liked Kirian's explanation much better than RR's.

I feel a lot more informed by Roadrunners, but Kirians seems like the better Respect whoring option, and IIRC that's the point of the Dominionstrategy forums anyway.

[silverspawn]

I really wish people would not do that kind of thing. It's so rude.

[Roadrunner7671]

I liked Kirian's explanation much better than RR's.

Me, too.

[Kirian]

I liked Kirian's explanation much better than RR's.

I feel a lot more informed by Roadrunners, but Kirians seems like the better Respect whoring option, and IIRC that's the point of the Dominionstrategy forums anyway.

It truly wasn't intended as respect-whoring, just not wanting the Random Stuff thread to get infected.  Not to mention the standard "If it's locked, stop talking about it elsewhere" forum etiquette.

[Awaclus]

It truly wasn't intended as respect-whoring, just not wanting the Random Stuff thread to get infected.  Not to mention the standard "If it's locked, stop talking about it elsewhere" forum etiquette.

I don't think it's necessary to stop talking about locked threads elsewhere, as long as you don't start the same conversations again. We're talking about decline of civility, Gunpowder and KC being more skippable than people think all the time (or maybe around 90-93% of the time) and it never causes any problems.

[Roadrunner7671]

It truly wasn't intended as respect-whoring, just not wanting the Random Stuff thread to get infected.  Not to mention the standard "If it's locked, stop talking about it elsewhere" forum etiquette.

I don't think it's necessary to stop talking about locked threads elsewhere, as long as you don't start the same conversations again. We're talking about decline of civility, Gunpowder and KC being more skippable than people think all the time (or maybe around 90-93% of the time) and it never causes any problems.

It never causes any problems because anyone who would disagree with you on those topics has been banned.

[silverspawn]

Why be so afraid of having a discussion? It is the rudeness in discussions that's causing the problems, not the discussion itself - to me, I'd say discussing something is almost always better than not discussing it, just as a general life lesson.

[Awaclus]

It truly wasn't intended as respect-whoring, just not wanting the Random Stuff thread to get infected.  Not to mention the standard "If it's locked, stop talking about it elsewhere" forum etiquette.

I don't think it's necessary to stop talking about locked threads elsewhere, as long as you don't start the same conversations again. We're talking about decline of civility, Gunpowder and KC being more skippable than people think all the time (or maybe around 90-93% of the time) and it never causes any problems.

It never causes any problems because anyone who would disagree with you on those topics has been banned.

I don't think anyone was banned due to decline of civility on Isotropic.

[silverspawn]

That's why I was commenting on the popcorn post. I think that's the worst thing that you can possibly do in threads with high stake discussions, regardless of what they're about or who is right. All it does is showcase apathy towards other people's feelings, and I think encouraging it via upvotes is a massive mistake. Wouldn't this be a discussion worth having?

[Roadrunner7671]

That's why I was commenting on the popcorn post. I think that's the worst thing that you can possibly do in threads with high stake discussions, regardless of what they're about or who is right. All it does is showcase apathy towards other people's feelings, and I think encouraging it via upvotes is a massive mistake. Wouldn't this be a discussion worth having?

I fully agree with this. I would've hoped something like that wouldn't have been posted, I consider everyone on this forum quite mature (except RR, that guy is something else). I think posts like those contribute to the lockage of threads, which is obviously something we don't want, because threads are strictly better than non-threads.

[Awaclus]

That's why I was commenting on the popcorn post. I think that's the worst thing that you can possibly do in threads with high stake discussions, regardless of what they're about or who is right. All it does is showcase apathy towards other people's feelings, and I think encouraging it via upvotes is a massive mistake. Wouldn't this be a discussion worth having?

You don't have to overthink it, it's just a popcorn post.

[silverspawn]

You don't have to overthink it, it's just a popcorn post.

I'm arguing that it hurts feelings of the people who are having the stakes in the discussion.

Maybe that's only the case for me, because I'm sensitive, but I don't think so. Neither Adam nor Stef upvoted any of the off topic posts.

And it's not like not doing it is a big loss, there is an entire rest of the forum to post jokes in.

I just... you know, I think most people, when they're upset about something, don't really want to see others having fun with that.

[iguanaiguana]

I agree with silver, but it's also really hard for me not to poke fun, which is why I've been writing and then immediately deleting a lot of posts lately.

[qmech]

Woah, guys, we're veering off topic again, and I'm all out of pie charts.

[Teproc]

I just... you know, I think most people, when they're upset about something, don't really want to see others having fun with that.

There is indeed nothing worse than that in those situations. Vaguely tolerable on the Internet, but I don't think anything gets me more worked up IRL.

[Kirian]

Woah, guys, we're veering off topic again, and I'm all out of pie charts.

Here, have an emergency Venn diagram:

[pacovf]

I just... you know, I think most people, when they're upset about something, don't really want to see others having fun with that.

There is indeed nothing worse than that in those situations. Vaguely tolerable on the Internet, but I don't think anything gets me more worked up IRL.

I have done something like that in the past more than once. I don't enjoy the least bit to see smart people sling mud at each other. I do it to draw attention to the fact that they are offering a spectacle to onlookers, and to make them question whether that's what they really want to do (instead of calming down, trying to see the other's person perspective, or reaching a compromise, etc.).

Obviously it only works when it's clear you are being ironic, which is harder online...

[Witherweaver]

I'm pretty sure my answer is correct.  People talked about ongoing games then the threads got locked. Explain that, Obama.

[Limetime]

Woah, guys, we're veering off topic again, and I'm all out of pie charts.

How can we get off topic if we're talking about random stuff?

[Witherweaver]

You don't have to overthink it, it's just a popcorn post.

I'm arguing that it hurts feelings of the people who are having the stakes in the discussion.

Maybe that's only the case for me, because I'm sensitive, but I don't think so. Neither Adam nor Stef upvoted any of the off topic posts.

And it's not like not doing it is a big loss, there is an entire rest of the forum to post jokes in.

I just... you know, I think most people, when they're upset about something, don't really want to see others having fun with that.

Actually I like to think stuff like that breaks the tension when there is an argument/disagreement.  That's usually why I do it.

[silverspawn]

I just... you know, I think most people, when they're upset about something, don't really want to see others having fun with that.

There is indeed nothing worse than that in those situations. Vaguely tolerable on the Internet, but I don't think anything gets me more worked up IRL.

I have done something like that in the past more than once. I don't enjoy the least bit to see smart people sling mud at each other. I do it to draw attention to the fact that they are offering a spectacle to onlookers, and to make them question whether that's what they really want to do (instead of calming down, trying to see the other's person perspective, or reaching a compromise, etc.).

Obviously it only works when it's clear you are being ironic, which is harder online...

Okay, that's interesting. I don't think people will get that, though.

Also, if I understand the intention, then it's only a good idea if the discussion shouldn't take place, right? Or at least not in public.

Actually I like to think stuff like that breaks the tension when there is an argument/disagreement.  That's usually why I do it.

This is more the reason I expected, and I really think it doesn't come across that way, even if the intention is good.

[pacovf]

Also, if I understand the intention, then it's only a good idea if the discussion shouldn't take place, right? Or at least not in public.

The "onlookers" are metaphorical, might as well just be me. Whether the discussion should or shouldn't take place is not the point. It's more that the direction the discussion has taken is not going anywhere other than people shouting past each other, and I know they can do better.

[Donald X.]

Here, have an emergency Venn diagram:

The one I always remember is - NSFW? - http://explosm.net/comics/2883

[Kirian]

Here, have an emergency Venn diagram:

The one I always remember is - NSFW? - http://explosm.net/comics/2883

Somehow I had never seen that one, despite its age.

Now if only Cyanide and Happiness hadn't decided to create another CAH clone...

[Teproc]

I just... you know, I think most people, when they're upset about something, don't really want to see others having fun with that.

There is indeed nothing worse than that in those situations. Vaguely tolerable on the Internet, but I don't think anything gets me more worked up IRL.

I have done something like that in the past more than once. I don't enjoy the least bit to see smart people sling mud at each other. I do it to draw attention to the fact that they are offering a spectacle to onlookers, and to make them question whether that's what they really want to do (instead of calming down, trying to see the other's person perspective, or reaching a compromise, etc.).

Obviously it only works when it's clear you are being ironic, which is harder online...

The thing is : they already know. When you do that, it's because people are making a scene and you're uncomfortable, but do you really think the people fighting don't know that ? As someone who used to get angry really easily, let me assure you : they know. The best way to deal with it is to ignore it and go away, or ask them to sotp it/go away, not to mock them.

On the Internet, ignoring it is so, so easy and is the right solution 99% of the time.

[Teproc]

You don't have to overthink it, it's just a popcorn post.

I'm arguing that it hurts feelings of the people who are having the stakes in the discussion.

Maybe that's only the case for me, because I'm sensitive, but I don't think so. Neither Adam nor Stef upvoted any of the off topic posts.

And it's not like not doing it is a big loss, there is an entire rest of the forum to post jokes in.

I just... you know, I think most people, when they're upset about something, don't really want to see others having fun with that.

Actually I like to think stuff like that breaks the tension when there is an argument/disagreement.  That's usually why I do it.

This never works. It defuses the tension for people who are not participating in the argument yeah, but not for the people you actually want to calm down.

[ashersky]

Woah, guys, we're veering off topic again, and I'm all out of pie charts.

Everyone's first thought when seeing a picture like this is how tasty rabbit is when prepared well, right?

[enfynet]

Woah, guys, we're veering off topic again, and I'm all out of pie charts.

Everyone's first thought when seeing a picture like this is how tasty rabbit is when prepared well, right?

I was actually wondering where its pancake hat was...

[ashersky]

Woah, guys, we're veering off topic again, and I'm all out of pie charts.

Everyone's first thought when seeing a picture like this is how tasty rabbit is when prepared well, right?

There's actually an entire website dedicated to this.  http://coniglioitaliano.it/coniglio-alla-senape/

[Awaclus]

You don't have to overthink it, it's just a popcorn post.

I'm arguing that it hurts feelings of the people who are having the stakes in the discussion.

Maybe that's only the case for me, because I'm sensitive, but I don't think so. Neither Adam nor Stef upvoted any of the off topic posts.

And it's not like not doing it is a big loss, there is an entire rest of the forum to post jokes in.

I just... you know, I think most people, when they're upset about something, don't really want to see others having fun with that.

I don't think it hurts anyone's feelings, it's just par for the course when you're having a heated argument online.

[Kuildeous]

Here, have an emergency Venn diagram:

The one I always remember is - NSFW? - http://explosm.net/comics/2883

Even before I clicked it, I suspected that's what it was.

At least it's no Tubgirl. Yay?

[Kuildeous]

How can we get off topic if we're talking about random stuff?

NOT RANDOM ENOUGH!

Cabinets.

[Awaclus]

Rolled 1d55 : 47, total 47

[Mic Qsenoch]

This dice roll may have been tampered with!
Rolled 1d55 : 47, total 47

Pseudo-Random Stuff Part III

[Kuildeous]

Bloody hell, my arm is in pain. I was giving blood, and I don't know if my phlebotomist was channeling Jacques Clouseau or Hannibal Lecter.

If I was a first-timer, that would have turned me off of giving blood entirely.

[iguanaiguana]

I had a really bad first time blood giving experience and never went again.

[Burning Skull]

A good friend of mine once asked me join him in blood giving procedure to help his grandpa who needed it due to some forthcoming operation.
So we both took a day off and went to hospital, but they turned both of us down for some silly reasons which I don't remember.
We then got some beers, went to my place and watched a nice idiotic zombie movie. THE END.

[faust]

A good friend of mine once asked me join him in blood giving procedure to help his grandpa who needed it due to some forthcoming operation.
So we both took a day off and went to hospital, but they turned both of us down for some silly reasons which I don't remember.
We then got some beers, went to my place and watched a nice idiotic zombie movie. THE END.

A vampire movie would have been much more appropriate.

[Roadrunner7671]

I did this a few days ago, and I wonder what happened: What happens if you report Theory?

[Limetime]

What happens if you report Theory?

Theory might get banned

[Kirian]

I did this a few days ago, and I wonder what happened: What happens if you report Theory?

Well, remember that the report button isn't just for things like bad behavior, it's also for needs to be moved, or please make sticky, or whatnot.

[Roadrunner7671]

I did this a few days ago, and I wonder what happened: What happens if you report Theory?

Well, remember that the report button isn't just for things like bad behavior, it's also for needs to be moved, or please make sticky, or whatnot.

So...Theory becomes sticky?

[Awaclus]

I did this a few days ago, and I wonder what happened: What happens if you report Theory?

Well, remember that the report button isn't just for things like bad behavior, it's also for needs to be moved, or please make sticky, or whatnot.

So...Theory becomes sticky?

And you're accusing me of making lewd jokes?

[singletee]

I did this a few days ago, and I wonder what happened: What happens if you report Theory?

Don't do it.

[2.71828.....]

I did this a few days ago, and I wonder what happened: What happens if you report Theory?

Don't do it.

Nice signature

[yuma]

I had a really bad first time blood giving experience and never went again.

As someone who works for a laboratory company that has "an arm" (Ha! Get it) in the blood donating/banking business I would strongly encourage you to give it another go.

Every day I hear a report that the hospital we supply product to is critically low on blood and platelets and it is a stretch to get these products to the critical ill patients that need them. And I know that many other hospitals around the country (at least in the US) are in the same situations.

All of that is if you can stomach to go of course. If the thought of it upsets you so much that you might faint or hyperventilate or vomit the phlebotomist probably wont' accept your blood anyways.

I would guess that I have given around 50 times (approximately every 8 weeks since I was 18) and probably had a "bad experience" in maybe two or three of them. Unfortunately phlebotomy isn't an exact science and doesn't pay well.

But at least they give you cookies!

[Kuildeous]

I tried giving blood when I was 18 when they came to my high school. They had problems, and it put me off giving blood. I didn't even try again for a long time.

I think I finally gave it a try at work sometime in my late 20s. I'm actually sad I didn't give it another try sooner. Today's experience truly sucked, but the staff is varied enough that it's not common.

[Roadrunner7671]

My parents were in Ukraine during Mad Cow disease, so that might disqualify me. It disqualifies them, at any rate.

[Archetype]

I get terribly nauseous around blood, talking about anatomy, etc. and have a given blood...once. And because a friend talked me into it. It was a pretty freaky experience and am unlikely to do it again, so mad props to anyone who consistently donates blood because you're a whole lot braver than I am.

[gkrieg13]

I lived in Russia for two years so they won't let me give blood for a while. The one time I tried, I passed out before they could get me to the chair so I've never been too excited to do it again

[Teproc]

My parents were in Ukraine during Mad Cow disease, so that might disqualify me. It disqualifies them, at any rate.

What does Ukraine have to do with Creutzfeldt-Jacob/Mad Cow ? The one they always ask about is Great Britain. And they only ask if you were there, not your parents (at least in France).

Been giving blood very regularly for about three years, never had a bad experience. Aside from the fact that giving platlets is a bit uncomfortable, which I often do since they often need it and many people are ineligible/unwilling because it takes up a lot more time and, well, it's uncomfortable.

[Watno]

In Germany, mad cow disease was referred to as BSE. I was very proud of knowing that it stood for "Bovine spongiforme Enzephalopathie", and that this means spongeformed brain in cows.

[pacovf]

I don't know how it is in the US, but in Canada you can't give blood if you've spent more than 5 years in Europe before 2007, because of mad cow disease. Or if you've spent 3 or more months in the UK during the epidemy.

[Kirian]

Prion diseases will probably destroy the human race eventually anyway.

[sudgy]

I have never noticed how fun it is to watch people eat salad.  They try so hard to get food on their fork, then they get one tiny thing on their fork and just give up and take a bite.  It's the most entertaining thing ever.

[Teproc]

I don't know how it is in the US, but in Canada you can't give blood if you've spent more than 5 years in Europe before 2007

That's insane.

Though I suppose the same could be said about the whole "living in Britain at a certain time", since I've gotta assume giving blood in the UK has more lax rules, otherwise basically no one there over the age of 10 would be able to give.

[Kirian]

I have never noticed how fun it is to watch people eat salad.  They try so hard to get food on their fork, then they get one tiny thing on their fork and just give up and take a bite.  It's the most entertaining thing ever.

Maybe you need to hang around people who know how to use a fork?

[Witherweaver]

That's why chopsticks are better.

[Seprix]

I have never noticed how fun it is to watch people eat salad.  They try so hard to get food on their fork, then they get one tiny thing on their fork and just give up and take a bite.  It's the most entertaining thing ever.

You are an evil individual..

I enjoy that too.

[Polk5440]

Woah, guys, we're veering off topic again, and I'm all out of pie charts.

[ img ]A Wascally Wabbit[ /img ]

How can we get off topic if we're talking about random stuff?

Hypothesis: the random stuff thread is a random walk.

[Kuildeous]

I have never noticed how fun it is to watch people eat salad.  They try so hard to get food on their fork, then they get one tiny thing on their fork and just give up and take a bite.  It's the most entertaining thing ever.

Now I'm going to be self-conscious every time I eat in public. Jerk.

[Burning Skull]

My cute degenerate friends shot a music video and I'm starring there. Check it out!

[ashersky]

My cute degenerate friends shot a music video and I'm starring there. Check it out!

You are the fish, right?

[Burning Skull]

You are the fish, right?

To some extent we all are

[Haddock]

You are the fish, right?

To some extent we all are

Hi.

[iguanaiguana]

You are the fish, right?

To some extent we all are

[Kuildeous]

My brain was hurting from reading a gaming post earlier this week. It was a fluff post asking if people prefer d20 or d100 (for the uninitiated, d20 refers to a 20-sided die and d100 refers to two 10-sided dice determining tens and ones [or there is literally a 100-sided golf ball die]). Since many gamers started with D&D and it uses a d20, they declared a fondness for that die. Not too surprising.

But then one guy said he prefers d20 because it's more random than the d100. I sputtered and explained that they're both random. There's no "more" about it. He elaborated that you're more likely to get a 7 or lower on a d20 than a 35 or lower on a d100 because of the d100's bell curve. To my credit, I managed to say that the d100 did not have a bell curve while not exploding. Mostly I was still trying to figure out what premise he was working with because he called it 2d10 (again for the uninitiated, that's two 10-sided dice added together). I found his terminology confusing because while I concur that 2d10 does have a bell curve, you can't get 35 with that. I mean, technically, you have a 100% chance of rolling 35 or lower on 2d10. So I really wanted to know what this guy thinks is being rolled before going all mathy on him.

Someone else beat me to the punch and explained the probability distribution. The original guy never responded back, which I read as him realizing the error and not pressing the issue. A part of me kind of hoped he clung to his original idea and tried to defend it, but that was just my asshole side wanting to get into an argument.

[Lekkit]

For the record, I think both have merits. One is simpler while the other comes with a more precise scale. I hate the golf balls, though. Almost impossible to read the results. :S

[faust]

My brain was hurting from reading a gaming post earlier this week. It was a fluff post asking if people prefer d20 or d100 (for the uninitiated, d20 refers to a 20-sided die and d100 refers to two 10-sided dice determining tens and ones [or there is literally a 100-sided golf ball die]). Since many gamers started with D&D and it uses a d20, they declared a fondness for that die. Not too surprising.

But then one guy said he prefers d20 because it's more random than the d100. I sputtered and explained that they're both random. There's no "more" about it. He elaborated that you're more likely to get a 7 or lower on a d20 than a 35 or lower on a d100 because of the d100's bell curve. To my credit, I managed to say that the d100 did not have a bell curve while not exploding. Mostly I was still trying to figure out what premise he was working with because he called it 2d10 (again for the uninitiated, that's two 10-sided dice added together). I found his terminology confusing because while I concur that 2d10 does have a bell curve, you can't get 35 with that. I mean, technically, you have a 100% chance of rolling 35 or lower on 2d10. So I really wanted to know what this guy thinks is being rolled before going all mathy on him.

Someone else beat me to the punch and explained the probability distribution. The original guy never responded back, which I read as him realizing the error and not pressing the issue. A part of me kind of hoped he clung to his original idea and tried to defend it, but that was just my asshole side wanting to get into an argument.

Well, one could argue that a d10 is not a platonic solid and thus the results are not evenly distributed, right? In that sense, d20 is "more random" I think. That's why I prefer d20 to d10 anyway.

[qmech]

So I really wanted to know what this guy thinks is being rolled before going all mathy on him.

1d10 + 10*(1d10) is a sum of independent random variables, "so by the central limit theorem is concentrated near its mean"?

[Kuildeous]

Well, one could argue that a d10 is not a platonic solid and thus the results are not evenly distributed, right? In that sense, d20 is "more random" I think. That's why I prefer d20 to d10 anyway.

Hmm, I can see that argument, but I think a d10 is still evenly distributed. The even and odd sides both have a 50% of coming up. Given that, each of the five numbers on that side have a 20% chance of coming up. So you still have a uniform distribution of results even though the d10 is not a platonic solid. Even the wonky dice like the d46 that are built like the d10 would be evenly distributed. I heard rumors of a d17, though I'd be really curious about that distribution.

I view the d20 and d100 as essentially identical. If all you care about are 5% increments, then both do the job just as well. Granted, you only need to roll 1 die with a d20 and 2 dice with a d100 (unless you use a heathen golf ball). If you need greater degrees of successes, then a d100 will let you capture the 2% chance of such-and-such happening. And really if you need more precision than that, you could technically implement a d1000 or even d10k roll, though that is probably not a game I would be interested in.

[Witherweaver]

Well, one could argue that a d10 is not a platonic solid and thus the results are not evenly distributed, right? In that sense, d20 is "more random" I think. That's why I prefer d20 to d10 anyway.

Hmm, I can see that argument, but I think a d10 is still evenly distributed. The even and odd sides both have a 50% of coming up. Given that, each of the five numbers on that side have a 20% chance of coming up. So you still have a uniform distribution of results even though the d10 is not a platonic solid. Even the wonky dice like the d46 that are built like the d10 would be evenly distributed. I heard rumors of a d17, though I'd be really curious about that distribution.

I view the d20 and d100 as essentially identical. If all you care about are 5% increments, then both do the job just as well. Granted, you only need to roll 1 die with a d20 and 2 dice with a d100 (unless you use a heathen golf ball). If you need greater degrees of successes, then a d100 will let you capture the 2% chance of such-and-such happening. And really if you need more precision than that, you could technically implement a d1000 or even d10k roll, though that is probably not a game I would be interested in.

Why do you think a d10's results are uniformly distributed?  It isn't regular.

[Watno]

Well, one could argue that a d10 is not a platonic solid and thus the results are not evenly distributed, right? In that sense, d20 is "more random" I think. That's why I prefer d20 to d10 anyway.

Hmm, I can see that argument, but I think a d10 is still evenly distributed. The even and odd sides both have a 50% of coming up. Given that, each of the five numbers on that side have a 20% chance of coming up. So you still have a uniform distribution of results even though the d10 is not a platonic solid. Even the wonky dice like the d46 that are built like the d10 would be evenly distributed. I heard rumors of a d17, though I'd be really curious about that distribution.

I view the d20 and d100 as essentially identical. If all you care about are 5% increments, then both do the job just as well. Granted, you only need to roll 1 die with a d20 and 2 dice with a d100 (unless you use a heathen golf ball). If you need greater degrees of successes, then a d100 will let you capture the 2% chance of such-and-such happening. And really if you need more precision than that, you could technically implement a d1000 or even d10k roll, though that is probably not a game I would be interested in.

Why do you think a d10's results are uniformly distributed?  It isn't regular.

It's symmetric?

[Witherweaver]

Well, one could argue that a d10 is not a platonic solid and thus the results are not evenly distributed, right? In that sense, d20 is "more random" I think. That's why I prefer d20 to d10 anyway.

Hmm, I can see that argument, but I think a d10 is still evenly distributed. The even and odd sides both have a 50% of coming up. Given that, each of the five numbers on that side have a 20% chance of coming up. So you still have a uniform distribution of results even though the d10 is not a platonic solid. Even the wonky dice like the d46 that are built like the d10 would be evenly distributed. I heard rumors of a d17, though I'd be really curious about that distribution.

I view the d20 and d100 as essentially identical. If all you care about are 5% increments, then both do the job just as well. Granted, you only need to roll 1 die with a d20 and 2 dice with a d100 (unless you use a heathen golf ball). If you need greater degrees of successes, then a d100 will let you capture the 2% chance of such-and-such happening. And really if you need more precision than that, you could technically implement a d1000 or even d10k roll, though that is probably not a game I would be interested in.

Why do you think a d10's results are uniformly distributed?  It isn't regular.

It's symmetric?

What do you mean by this?  I'm pretty sure it does not have the same symmetries that a (regular) die with 4, 6, 8, 12, or 20 sides has.

[qmech]

Well, one could argue that a d10 is not a platonic solid and thus the results are not evenly distributed, right? In that sense, d20 is "more random" I think. That's why I prefer d20 to d10 anyway.

Hmm, I can see that argument, but I think a d10 is still evenly distributed. The even and odd sides both have a 50% of coming up. Given that, each of the five numbers on that side have a 20% chance of coming up. So you still have a uniform distribution of results even though the d10 is not a platonic solid. Even the wonky dice like the d46 that are built like the d10 would be evenly distributed. I heard rumors of a d17, though I'd be really curious about that distribution.

I view the d20 and d100 as essentially identical. If all you care about are 5% increments, then both do the job just as well. Granted, you only need to roll 1 die with a d20 and 2 dice with a d100 (unless you use a heathen golf ball). If you need greater degrees of successes, then a d100 will let you capture the 2% chance of such-and-such happening. And really if you need more precision than that, you could technically implement a d1000 or even d10k roll, though that is probably not a game I would be interested in.

Why do you think a d10's results are uniformly distributed?  It isn't regular.

It's symmetric?

What do you mean by this?  I'm pretty sure it does not have the same symmetries that a (regular) die with 4, 6, 8, 12, or 20 sides has.

It has a transitive symmetry group: given any two faces A and B I can rotate (and reflect if necessary, although it isn't for a d10) so that A is now in the position formerly occupied by B.

[Witherweaver]

But it doesn't have edge and vertex symmetry.  Wouldn't this lead to a not perfectly uniform distribution?

Well, speaking intuitively.  I'm not quite sure how it all relates.

[Awaclus]

I like the d100 because you immediately get the probability of the roll in a comprehensible format. When you have to roll 15 or higher on a d20, first you have to do 20-14=6 and then you get 6/20 as the odds and then you still have to turn that into 3/10 or 30/100 before you can actually have a good idea of how likely it is (it's not really difficult, but it's enough of a bother that I never actually do it). When you have to roll 30 or lower on a d100, you can immediately tell that the odds are 30%.

[LastFootnote]

But it doesn't have edge and vertex symmetry.  Wouldn't this lead to a not perfectly uniform distribution?

Why would it?

[Watno]

The sides are basically indistinguishable. How could one be more probable?

[Kuildeous]

Why do you think a d10's results are uniformly distributed?  It isn't regular.

Like I said, you have two equal chances of landing on the odd or even side. You then have five equal chances of getting 1, 3, 5, 7, 9 or 2, 4, 6, 8, 0, depending on what the first one was. Of course, this assumes a perfectly cut d10 so that all the planes are congruent with congruent angles between them, but we have to make that assumption for all dice anyway.

I'm not sure how I can add to that. Without trying to sound like a cop-out, why would not being regular preclude even distribution? How does a d10 not achieve even distribution?

[Witherweaver]

I'm just thinking that while the faces are "the same", the edges are not.  And so the rolling process isn't, uh.. uniform.

[Witherweaver]

Why do you think a d10's results are uniformly distributed?  It isn't regular.

Like I said, you have two equal chances of landing on the odd or even side. You then have five equal chances of getting 1, 3, 5, 7, 9 or 2, 4, 6, 8, 0, depending on what the first one was. Of course, this assumes a perfectly cut d10 so that all the planes are congruent with congruent angles between them, but we have to make that assumption for all dice anyway.

I'm not sure how I can add to that. Without trying to sound like a cop-out, why would not being regular preclude even distribution? How does a d10 not achieve even distribution?

It's the "equal chance" part that isn't clear.  You're just restating 'uniform'.

[LastFootnote]

Why do you think a d10's results are uniformly distributed?  It isn't regular.

Like I said, you have two equal chances of landing on the odd or even side. You then have five equal chances of getting 1, 3, 5, 7, 9 or 2, 4, 6, 8, 0, depending on what the first one was. Of course, this assumes a perfectly cut d10 so that all the planes are congruent with congruent angles between them, but we have to make that assumption for all dice anyway.

I'm not sure how I can add to that. Without trying to sound like a cop-out, why would not being regular preclude even distribution? How does a d10 not achieve even distribution?

It's the "equal chance" part that isn't clear.  You're just restating 'uniform'.

That's what "uniform" means. An equal chance of each result.

[Witherweaver]

Why do you think a d10's results are uniformly distributed?  It isn't regular.

Like I said, you have two equal chances of landing on the odd or even side. You then have five equal chances of getting 1, 3, 5, 7, 9 or 2, 4, 6, 8, 0, depending on what the first one was. Of course, this assumes a perfectly cut d10 so that all the planes are congruent with congruent angles between them, but we have to make that assumption for all dice anyway.

I'm not sure how I can add to that. Without trying to sound like a cop-out, why would not being regular preclude even distribution? How does a d10 not achieve even distribution?

It's the "equal chance" part that isn't clear.  You're just restating 'uniform'.

That's what "uniform" means. An equal chance of each result.

Yes I know this.  My point is Kuildeous is not explaining, he's restating.

[LastFootnote]

Why do you think a d10's results are uniformly distributed?  It isn't regular.

Like I said, you have two equal chances of landing on the odd or even side. You then have five equal chances of getting 1, 3, 5, 7, 9 or 2, 4, 6, 8, 0, depending on what the first one was. Of course, this assumes a perfectly cut d10 so that all the planes are congruent with congruent angles between them, but we have to make that assumption for all dice anyway.

I'm not sure how I can add to that. Without trying to sound like a cop-out, why would not being regular preclude even distribution? How does a d10 not achieve even distribution?

It's the "equal chance" part that isn't clear.  You're just restating 'uniform'.

That's what "uniform" means. An equal chance of each result.

Yes I know this.  My point is Kuildeous is not explaining, he's restating.

So…you're arguing just to argue, and being obstinate just for the sake of being obstinate?

[Witherweaver]

Why do you think a d10's results are uniformly distributed?  It isn't regular.

Like I said, you have two equal chances of landing on the odd or even side. You then have five equal chances of getting 1, 3, 5, 7, 9 or 2, 4, 6, 8, 0, depending on what the first one was. Of course, this assumes a perfectly cut d10 so that all the planes are congruent with congruent angles between them, but we have to make that assumption for all dice anyway.

I'm not sure how I can add to that. Without trying to sound like a cop-out, why would not being regular preclude even distribution? How does a d10 not achieve even distribution?

It's the "equal chance" part that isn't clear.  You're just restating 'uniform'.

That's what "uniform" means. An equal chance of each result.

Yes I know this.  My point is Kuildeous is not explaining, he's restating.

So…you're arguing just to argue, and being obstinate just for the sake of being obstinate?

No, I'm saying why is it uniform.

[Witherweaver]

Or really I'm saying wondering how different symmetries lead to the end distribution.

[pacovf]

Or really I'm saying wondering how different symmetries lead to the end distribution.

It has a transitive symmetry group: given any two faces A and B I can rotate (and reflect if necessary, although it isn't for a d10) so that A is now in the position formerly occupied by B.

[Witherweaver]

Or really I'm saying wondering how different symmetries lead to the end distribution.

It has a transitive symmetry group: given any two faces A and B I can rotate (and reflect if necessary, although it isn't for a d10) so that A is now in the position formerly occupied by B.

Yes but the vertices don't enjoy the same symmetry.

But maybe there's just two sets of vertex symmetries ("top" <-> "bottom" and the "sides".. or maybe the sides themselves break into two groups, I have to actually look at a die), which gives what Kuildeous is getting at.

[Watno]

I have to actually look at a die

That sounds like an awesome idea.

[pacovf]

Or really I'm saying wondering how different symmetries lead to the end distribution.

It has a transitive symmetry group: given any two faces A and B I can rotate (and reflect if necessary, although it isn't for a d10) so that A is now in the position formerly occupied by B.

Yes but the vertices don't enjoy the same symmetry.

But maybe there's just two sets of vertex symmetries ("top" <-> "bottom" and the "sides".. or maybe the sides themselves break into two groups, I have to actually look at a die), which gives what Kuildeous is getting at.

You realize that's it's the faces that give you the number, not the vertices, right?

[Witherweaver]

But you roll the die, you don't just pick a face at random.  There is a physical process. 

I'm not saying you're all wrong, I'm just wondering if not being regular can effect the rolling process.

Also, the "side edges" on ten sided dice around rounded.. maybe that effect plays equally on all the outcomes.  But the extent to which they're rounded should effect the extent to which the die can tumble about that plane, and if it can't really do that, then it's final result seems dependent upon its initial configuration when you start the roll.  It's not crazy to think you lose "randomness".

But, please, keep treating me like an idiot, because that's fun.

[Watno]

If you roll a regular die, like a d6, there's a physical process as well?

[Witherweaver]

If you roll a regular die, like a d6, there's a physical process as well?

Well, yes, so I suppose the same orientation/tumbling issue applies there.

[faust]

I find the arrogance some here are showing in this argument annoying. WW is trying to understand what you mean, you're not helping him at all. I still don't fully get it. I think vertices should matter, for example: In an ideal die throw, we can assume that the die is randomly rotated, with a random momentum, when it hits the table. The by far most likely case is that the die hits the table on a vertex. Not all vertices are "the same", so it is not clear why we would get a uniform distribution going from here.

[Witherweaver]

I find the arrogance some here are showing in this argument annoying. WW is trying to understand what you mean, you're not helping him at all. I still don't fully get it. I think vertices should matter, for example: In an ideal die throw, we can assume that the die is randomly rotated, with a random momentum, when it hits the table. The by far most likely case is that the die hits the table on a vertex. Not all vertices are "the same", so it is not clear why we would get a uniform distribution going from here.

This is my thought.  Though in the ten-sided die case, you have two (three?) sets of equivalent vertices.

But, really, I think generally "fair" is simply defined to be symmetric with respect to its faces.

[Mic Qsenoch]

I find the arrogance some here are showing in this argument annoying. WW is trying to understand what you mean, you're not helping him at all. I still don't fully get it. I think vertices should matter, for example: In an ideal die throw, we can assume that the die is randomly rotated, with a random momentum, when it hits the table. The by far most likely case is that the die hits the table on a vertex. Not all vertices are "the same", so it is not clear why we would get a uniform distribution going from here.

But each face relates to the same number/type of vertices in exactly the same way, as already pointed out the faces are indistinguishable.

If you make the assumption that the physical process of rolling erases any biases in the initial state then the distribution is obviously uniform. If you don't make this assumption, no dice has a uniform distribution, not even the regular ones.

[singletee]

Suppose an idealized D10 does not produce a uniform distribution. In that case, there is one face that is at least as likely as any other, and more likely than at least one other. Without loss of generality we can assume that 1 is more likely to be rolled than 2. (Our labeling is arbitrary, not necessarily the standard D10 labeling.) Now we rotate this die such that the 2 face is now where the 1 face started out. Since the physical structure of the die is the same, the probability of rolling any given face is only dependent on its position on the die. So the 2 face ends up in the 1 spot, and the 1 face ends up somewhere other than the 1 spot. Thus 2 is at least as likely as 1, and we have a contradiction. Therefore an idealized D10 produces a uniform distribution.

[qmech]

It's certainly possible to have a die with two faces that are the same shape, but with different chances of landing on each.  However, a d10 has much more symmetry than this: the faces are indistinguishable. 

Suppose it's our job to generate random numbers from 1 to 10.  I pick a d10 out of the box, then put it on the table in front of you.  You then paint it in the standard pattern, starting by putting a 1 on the face on the top.  I then roll the d10 and report the result.

Your job is harder than mine, so I tend to get bored easily.  To make things more interesting I start rolling the blank d10s to decide which way up to give them to you, rather than just taking them our of the box and putting them onto the table.  After you've painted the numbers on I roll the d10 and report the result as before.

In one sense this process is different from the original one: each face of each d10 is now getting a random number, with all possibilities equally likely, rather than the one it was destined to have when it was sitting in the box.  But it doesn't really matter; since blank d10's all look the same whichever way up you put them, you won't even know I've been rolling the d10s before giving them to you if I do it in the next room.  So it can't be the case that my pre-rolling has had any effect on the numbers I end up reporting.  But whichever face was destined to come up at the final roll, it now has a random number on it rather than the one it was supposed to: so our process must have been producing random numbers all along.

[Kuildeous]

Why do you think a d10's results are uniformly distributed?  It isn't regular.

Like I said, you have two equal chances of landing on the odd or even side. You then have five equal chances of getting 1, 3, 5, 7, 9 or 2, 4, 6, 8, 0, depending on what the first one was. Of course, this assumes a perfectly cut d10 so that all the planes are congruent with congruent angles between them, but we have to make that assumption for all dice anyway.

I'm not sure how I can add to that. Without trying to sound like a cop-out, why would not being regular preclude even distribution? How does a d10 not achieve even distribution?

It's the "equal chance" part that isn't clear.  You're just restating 'uniform'.

That's what "uniform" means. An equal chance of each result.

Yes I know this.  My point is Kuildeous is not explaining, he's restating.

Which is why I said that I wasn't sure how to add to that. All I could do was restate it with a little more clarification. I figured I failed to convey an aha moment, and I attempted lamely to find that moment. Obviously I didn't, and I'm not surprised. That's why I had to shift the burden to you. The concept seemed so obvious in my mind that the opposite was impossible for me to fathom. So I asked for your viewpoint so I could possibly understand it.

And I'm not treating you as an idiot. Or at least I hope I didn't look like I was. I've been in this position before with the Monty Hall puzzle. I was as convinced as I am about this d10 matter that the odds of winning increases to 1/2 that I could not fathom that the real odds were actually 2/3. At least not until I had someone explain his viewpoint so I could understand it (and see how wrong I was).

And yes, how you roll the die can affect the randomness of it. If you hold the die with the 4 face facing upward and flick your wrist the same way each time against a surface that is 84 degrees to the table with green felt, then you probably will not get a uniform distribution. But you would have that problem with regular solids too. I take random die rolls to mean that you haphazardly toss the die in a fashion that is not similar to the previous rolls. You hold it differently, you throw with a different angle, you throw with a different speed, you roll on a different surface, you bounce it off of an object, and so on. I suppose this is getting into entropy? Unless you're specifically trying to influence how the die lands, it should have enough chaos in the throw that you can treat it as true randomness.

So barring weirdness in how vertices are struck, as long as there is sufficient distance and spin applied to the die, is there a reason why the distribution of a d10 should not be uniform vs. any of the platonic solids?

[Witherweaver]

....

I understood what you were saying, but you started out with "these have an equal chance of occurring," which is exactly what was under question.  Anyway, it wasn't your posts to which I was referring.

To me the question is not why should it not be uniform, but rather why should it be uniform.   

I think what Mic Q, singletee, and gmech said cover it. 

This is interesting, by the way:

http://mathoverflow.net/questions/46684/fair-but-irregular-polyhedral-dice

Also:

http://www-stat.stanford.edu/~cgates/PERSI/papers/fairdice.pdf

[pacovf]

But, please, keep treating me like an idiot, because that's fun.

I am sorry if I came out that way. I didn't understand that you were talking about the influence of the initial configuration on the final configuration. But I have a feeling that you have to assume an initial configuration that is itself uniform, otherwise you would be cheating. Then your problem disappears?

[Witherweaver]

But, please, keep treating me like an idiot, because that's fun.

I am sorry if I came out that way. I didn't understand that you were talking about the influence of the initial configuration on the final configuration. But I have a feeling that you have to assume an initial configuration that is itself uniform, otherwise you would be cheating. Then your problem disappears?

I think the essence of what I needed  (to make it 'click' for me) was this:

But each face relates to the same number/type of vertices in exactly the same way, as already pointed out the faces are indistinguishable.

I mean my general thought was: not all the vertices and edges are the same, what if they affect the actual roll in nonuniform ways?

[LastFootnote]

I was treating you like a troll, not an idiot. But I apologize for that, too.

I guess in my mind, there is absolutely no reason the burden of proof should be on anybody but you in this case. If you don't think a d10 has a uniform probability distribution, prove why that is.

[Witherweaver]

I was treating you like a troll, not an idiot. But I apologize for that, too.

I guess in my mind, there is absolutely no reason the burden of proof should be on anybody but you in this case. If you don't think a d10 has a uniform probability distribution, prove why that is.

Well I disagree there.  I mean, it's obviously not the same as the other dice:  4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 20.  One of these is different than the others.  Turns out the difference isn't significant here, but I don't think it's dismissively obvious. 

[Witherweaver]

And also when I was posting earlier this morning I was doing other stuff simultaneously, so couldn't really explain things well, so sorry.

[liopoil]

Burden of proof was definitely not on witherweaver. He wasn't arguing that it wasn't uniform, just that it had yet to be shown that it was uniform.

[Witherweaver]

Burden of proof was definitely not on witherweaver. He wasn't arguing that it wasn't uniform, just that it had yet to be shown that it was uniform.

Right, yes.  I may not have been typing clearly though.

[LastFootnote]

Then could somebody please prove to me that a regular polyhedron does have a uniform distribution? Witherweaver does appear to take that as a given.

[liopoil]

Then could somebody please prove to me that a regular polyhedron does have a uniform distribution? Witherweaver does appear to take that as a given.

Singletee's argument works for any die with indistinguishable faces, including all regular polyhedra:

Suppose an idealized D10 does not produce a uniform distribution. In that case, there is one face that is at least as likely as any other, and more likely than at least one other. Without loss of generality we can assume that 1 is more likely to be rolled than 2. (Our labeling is arbitrary, not necessarily the standard D10 labeling.) Now we rotate this die such that the 2 face is now where the 1 face started out. Since the physical structure of the die is the same, the probability of rolling any given face is only dependent on its position on the die. So the 2 face ends up in the 1 spot, and the 1 face ends up somewhere other than the 1 spot. Thus 2 is at least as likely as 1, and we have a contradiction. Therefore an idealized D10 produces a uniform distribution.

[Tables]

Today I visited the Coventry Transport Museum with my sister. It was fun. I also decided to be a total rebel.

[sudgy]

I'm just going to put this here, because me and my brother keep trolling each other with it:

http://imgur.com/OnlBGBh

[Awaclus]

Based on the results of this poll, I'd say that natural stupidity is a far greater threat to humanity.

(the poll was originally on The Telegraph)

[liopoil]

I'm not sure what you mean. The answer is obviously yes, right?

[Witherweaver]

Do we even know that a human made that poll?  Or that only humans voted in it?!  AI already outnumbers us!

[ashersky]

I'm not sure what you mean. The answer is obviously yes, right?

This is correct.  Regardless of the possibility, humans should be worried about all possible threats in the universe.  Aliens, zombies, vampires, robots, pirates.  Be worried an appropriate amount and be done.

[Roadrunner7671]

Do we even know that a human made that poll?  Or that only humans voted in it?!  AI already outnumbers us!

I firmly believe that WW made this post so that we won't expect him to be AI, but I'm onto him.

Vote: WW

[Axxle]

I'm not sure what you mean. The answer is obviously yes, right?

This is correct.  Regardless of the possibility, humans should be worried about all possible threats in the universe.  Aliens, zombies, vampires, robots, pirates.  Be worried an appropriate amount and be done.

This is venturing into RSP territory, but AI is getting to the point where they are replacing jobs and not really opening up too many more. That's what's worrying. We'll have to rethink how the world works if people can't realistically be expected to be employed.

[Kirian]

I'm not sure what you mean. The answer is obviously yes, right?

This is correct.  Regardless of the possibility, humans should be worried about all possible threats in the universe.  Aliens, zombies, vampires, robots, pirates.  Be worried an appropriate amount and be done.

This is venturing into RSP territory, but AI is getting to the point where they are replacing jobs and not really opening up too many more. That's what's worrying. We'll have to rethink how the world works if people can't realistically be expected to be employed.

Relevant:

[gkrieg13]

I'm not sure what you mean. The answer is obviously yes, right?

This is correct.  Regardless of the possibility, humans should be worried about all possible threats in the universe.  Aliens, zombies, vampires, robots, pirates.  Be worried an appropriate amount and be done.

This is venturing into RSP territory, but AI is getting to the point where they are replacing jobs and not really opening up too many more. That's what's worrying. We'll have to rethink how the world works if people can't realistically be expected to be employed.

Or you can program the AI.  Then you'll have lots of jobs!

[Axxle]

Exactly the video I was thinking of, Kirian.

[Axxle]

[Burning Skull]

Maybe delete that? no, thank you.

[KingZog3]

Maybe delete that? no, thank you.

Funny because I just deleted it about an hour ago.

[Tables]

Yesterday while I was on duty at lunchtime, we spotted a large group of year 11's (15-16 year olds) - perhaps about 10 of them - head behind one of the buildings where there's a small grassy bank. There's nothing around the back there, and it's a camera blind spot, so we figured that there was definitely something going on. Almost certainly cigarettes, alcohol or worse. I was in a 1st floor room and stayed there while 1-2 others in the room went down to check what was going on.

We saw them, and a few other teachers who had spotted the kids, go around the back there and tell all the kids to come out, stopping them and asking what was going on. Some just ran (bad idea, since everyone knows their names anyway), most looked guilty. One teacher looped around to the other side to stop them escaping that way. That teacher managed to find exactly what it was they were doing around there.

He came back from the other side carrying three full boxes of take away pizza. They had literally just smuggled... pizza... into school. It's still against the rules, so it was taken off them.

It was a very surreal experience. Definitely not what I expected to happen.

[Limetime]

Yesterday while I was on duty at lunchtime, we spotted a large group of year 11's (15-16 year olds) - perhaps about 10 of them - head behind one of the buildings where there's a small grassy bank. There's nothing around the back there, and it's a camera blind spot, so we figured that there was definitely something going on. Almost certainly cigarettes, alcohol or worse. I was in a 1st floor room and stayed there while 1-2 others in the room went down to check what was going on.

We saw them, and a few other teachers who had spotted the kids, go around the back there and tell all the kids to come out, stopping them and asking what was going on. Some just ran (bad idea, since everyone knows their names anyway), most looked guilty. One teacher looped around to the other side to stop them escaping that way. That teacher managed to find exactly what it was they were doing around there.

He came back from the other side carrying three full boxes of take away pizza. They had literally just smuggled... pizza... into school. It's still against the rules, so it was taken off them.

It was a very surreal experience. Definitely not what I expected to happen.

I am not smart enough to smuggle illegal pizza into my school. Can you give me tips from those people?

[Awaclus]

Yesterday while I was on duty at lunchtime, we spotted a large group of year 11's (15-16 year olds) - perhaps about 10 of them - head behind one of the buildings where there's a small grassy bank. There's nothing around the back there, and it's a camera blind spot, so we figured that there was definitely something going on. Almost certainly cigarettes, alcohol or worse. I was in a 1st floor room and stayed there while 1-2 others in the room went down to check what was going on.

We saw them, and a few other teachers who had spotted the kids, go around the back there and tell all the kids to come out, stopping them and asking what was going on. Some just ran (bad idea, since everyone knows their names anyway), most looked guilty. One teacher looped around to the other side to stop them escaping that way. That teacher managed to find exactly what it was they were doing around there.

He came back from the other side carrying three full boxes of take away pizza. They had literally just smuggled... pizza... into school. It's still against the rules, so it was taken off them.

It was a very surreal experience. Definitely not what I expected to happen.

I am not smart enough to smuggle illegal pizza into my school. Can you give me tips from those people?

Why do you want tips from people who got caught?

[Watno]

He came back from the other side carrying three full boxes of take away pizza. They had literally just smuggled... pizza... into school. It's still against the rules, so it was taken off them.

Why are there rules that forbid this?

[Donald X.]

He came back from the other side carrying three full boxes of take away pizza. They had literally just smuggled... pizza... into school. It's still against the rules, so it was taken off them.

Why are there rules that forbid this?

They didn't bring enough for the whole class.

[Axxle]

He came back from the other side carrying three full boxes of take away pizza. They had literally just smuggled... pizza... into school. It's still against the rules, so it was taken off them.

Why are there rules that forbid this?

1) having food delivered:
a) there are unknown adults on campus
b) is disruptive
2) students aren't often allowed to go off campus during school hours for safety/liability reasons

[Witherweaver]

They could smuggle drugs in the pizzas!

[Tables]

He came back from the other side carrying three full boxes of take away pizza. They had literally just smuggled... pizza... into school. It's still against the rules, so it was taken off them.

Why are there rules that forbid this?

There's no rules specifically forbidding pizza, but there's various rules they were breaking. For instance 1) They were eating in an area that wasn't a designated eating area; 2) They were in an area they aren't allowed to go during the school day (I know this kind of implies point 1 but the entire area around there is not an eating area), 3) It would require a delivery onto the site in some form, which is just bad in a bunch of ways (all visitors should sign in, nobody should be visiting a pupil without permission anyway, etc.).

Plus it gets even more silly when you consider the canteen sells pizza anyway, at probably a similar price per slice and similar quality.

[Roadrunner7671]

I have a Dominion question that does not deserve its own thread: Is the artwork in Dominion painted or is the artwork made on a computer?

[Awaclus]

I have a Dominion question that does not deserve its own thread: Is the artwork in Dominion painted or is the artwork made on a computer?

Yes.

[KingZog3]

I have a Dominion question that does not deserve its own thread: Is the artwork in Dominion painted or is the artwork made on a computer?

The cards are made by tons of different artists. Most are probably digital, but for sure some are physical mediums.

[Roadrunner7671]

Follow up question:
What are some types of merchants (spice merchants, for example)?
What are some types of mongers (ironmongers, fishmongers, deathmongers, etc)?

[Donald X.]

Follow up question:
What are some types of merchants (spice merchants, for example)?
What are some types of mongers (ironmongers, fishmongers, deathmongers, etc)?

I'll offer up Ismail Merchant and Squallmonger.

[Roadrunner7671]

Follow up question:
What are some types of merchants (spice merchants, for example)?
What are some types of mongers (ironmongers, fishmongers, deathmongers, etc)?

I'll offer up Ismail Merchant and Squallmonger.

How did Awaclus manage to figure out Donald's forum password?

[Awaclus]

Follow up question:
What are some types of merchants (spice merchants, for example)?
What are some types of mongers (ironmongers, fishmongers, deathmongers, etc)?

I'll offer up Ismail Merchant and Squallmonger.

How did Awaclus manage to figure out Donald's forum password?

In reality, it's just Wandering Winder who has figured out everyone's password.

[Tables]

Guitar Hero Live is pretty fun. I highly recommend not buying it.

I'm disappointed nobody bothered to comment on this weird statement. Since nobody has and it's been almost a month, I'm just going to explain. The game is fun, but the component quality is awful. I've had two guitars, with a total of three crippling defects between them. As in, defects that make the game effectively unplayable and need either fixing or replacing. My co-worked who had the game before me had 1 out of 2 guitars being defective. That's a small sample size, but it's averaging one defect per guitar. Then there's the issue of the game itself. It just doesn't give you a nice calibration option any more. The current calibration system is much harder to get right, and seems to drift between play sessions as well - one day it seems fine, the next every note is registered early.

It's a fun game, and makes for an interesting new Guitar Hero experience, but man, just don't bother. It's too much hassle.

[Seprix]

Guitar Hero Live is pretty fun. I highly recommend not buying it.

I'm disappointed nobody bothered to comment on this weird statement. Since nobody has and it's been almost a month, I'm just going to explain. The game is fun, but the component quality is awful. I've had two guitars, with a total of three crippling defects between them. As in, defects that make the game effectively unplayable and need either fixing or replacing. My co-worked who had the game before me had 1 out of 2 guitars being defective. That's a small sample size, but it's averaging one defect per guitar. Then there's the issue of the game itself. It just doesn't give you a nice calibration option any more. The current calibration system is much harder to get right, and seems to drift between play sessions as well - one day it seems fine, the next every note is registered early.

It's a fun game, and makes for an interesting new Guitar Hero experience, but man, just don't bother. It's too much hassle.

Didn't Mad Catz exclusively make those Guitars in some big deal they made with whoever developed Guitar Hero? If so, that would be why. Mad Catz is crap. When I first got a GameCube, I had a Mad Catz controller. Whenever I plugged it in, the GameCube would stop working within 3 minutes. I thought my GameCube was broken, it was so bizarre.

[markusin]

Guitar Hero Live is pretty fun. I highly recommend not buying it.

I'm disappointed nobody bothered to comment on this weird statement. Since nobody has and it's been almost a month, I'm just going to explain. The game is fun, but the component quality is awful. I've had two guitars, with a total of three crippling defects between them. As in, defects that make the game effectively unplayable and need either fixing or replacing. My co-worked who had the game before me had 1 out of 2 guitars being defective. That's a small sample size, but it's averaging one defect per guitar. Then there's the issue of the game itself. It just doesn't give you a nice calibration option any more. The current calibration system is much harder to get right, and seems to drift between play sessions as well - one day it seems fine, the next every note is registered early.

It's a fun game, and makes for an interesting new Guitar Hero experience, but man, just don't bother. It's too much hassle.

You know, I feel like Guitar Hero 6 was the best Guitar Hero/Rock Band game I played (which includes Guitar Hero 1-3+Metallica and Rock Band 1-2+Beatles). They mastered the formula and worked out the kinks with all the experience they got making GH games, at least for guitar. Plus it has that sweet PSN connection for any DLC you want (plus importing from previous games).

Sadly, it came out when no one cared for the franchise anymore. I see it as sort of an apology game for flooding the market.

Now this new Guitar Hero Live is out. I'm unimpressed with the setlist

I am sad to hear about the defective Guitars. My guitar could use replacing. Or I could just play Rocksmith. Rocksmith is good fun.

[Tables]

I feel like the gameplay in GHL is great. Having something like 200+ songs available for free is great, and I like the new guitar layout, makes things interesting. But there's just so many issues with it as well.

[markusin]

I feel like the gameplay in GHL is great. Having something like 200+ songs available for free is great, and I like the new guitar layout, makes things interesting. But there's just so many issues with it as well.

Ooh I didn't notice the Guitar Hero TV feature. That sounds pretty sweet actually. Sadly I do not have a PS4/Xbox One.

[funkdoc]

it's still really funny to me that madcatz of all companies came out with the best arcade joysticks for fighting games.  i knew their stuff was crap before that, and i still hear nonstop how everything of theirs is crap besides the sticks.

their main fighting-game guy just left the company though, he was the one who set up the daigo vs. lupe fiasco match in SF5 if anyone knows about that.  so we'll see if that stuff suffers the same fate as the rest...

[Seprix]

I'm thinking about getting either Dark Souls 3 when it comes out or Street Fighter V. Which should I get? F.DS DECIDES!

[Awaclus]

I'm thinking about getting either Dark Souls 3 when it comes out or Street Fighter V. Which should I get? F.DS DECIDES!

Dark Souls 3 because unlike the latter, it's probably good.

[silverspawn]

Dark Souls 3.

[Axxle]

5 > 3

Street fighter

[qmech]

5 > 3

Street fighter

Might you go so far as to say 5 <3?

[jsh357]

Going to assume by the fact that you are even asking this question, you are new to Souls? I will say Dark Souls 3, but with the preface that you should play the previous Souls games (including Demon's Souls) and Bloodborne first if you haven't, as DS3 has many references to those games, and they're all great and well worth your time anyway. (You can skip Dark Souls 2 if you don't have time for it; it was made by a different team/director and typically seen as not quite up to the same quality, which I personally agree with) At the very least, you should play Dark Souls 1. I can't comment on SF because I haven't played one of those since SFII, but I would have to imagine if you wait on it you could get a better deal when the turbo ultra deluxe pony edition comes out.

[Seprix]

Going to assume by the fact that you are even asking this question, you are new to Souls? I will say Dark Souls 3, but with the preface that you should play the previous Souls games (including Demon's Souls) and Bloodborne first if you haven't, as DS3 has many references to those games, and they're all great and well worth your time anyway. (You can skip Dark Souls 2 if you don't have time for it; it was made by a different team/director and typically seen as not quite up to the same quality, which I personally agree with) At the very least, you should play Dark Souls 1. I can't comment on SF because I haven't played one of those since SFII, but I would have to imagine if you wait on it you could get a better deal when the turbo ultra deluxe pony edition comes out.

I've played Bloodborne.

[funkdoc]

as someone who has very little good to say about SF4 or marvel vs. capcom 3, i've been pleasantly surprised with SF5 thus far.  capcom actually followed through on the "back to basics" approach here, whereas SF4 ended up being a weird jumble of classic SF and guilty gear/blazblue style gameflow.  this is from the perspective of somebody who's played in tournaments since 2001, mind you.

if you aren't the kind of person who drives 3 hours and pays money to press buttons next to dudes who haven't showered in 2 days, i strongly recommend waiting on SF5.  the launch has been a disaster with the majority audience, as the game offers nothing to do besides play story mode and get bodied online.  they're going to add more modes & features at some point in the future, so that would likely be the point you want to jump in.  plenty more characters will be out by then too.

[Lekkit]

I'm not that good when it comes to fighting games. But I've had a blast with SFV. I've played some online games with random people and enjoyed those. But mainly I've played with a  friend who is much better than me. But I've still had a great time with it. The Souls series is great, though. I would say go for that. Unless you have friends you enjoy playing fighting games with.

[Seprix]

Yay, new iPhone 7 coming out and guess what, there's no headphone jack. You'll have to connect Apple approved Bluetooth wireless headphones if you want to listen to your music now. Another $100. I like Apple products, but I'm getting really sick of this blatant rip-off. I don't care if the phone is thinner. If anything, I want it bigger, so at least the battery life is better.

[liopoil]

5 > 3

Street fighter

Might you go so far as to say 5 <3?

How am I the first +1?

[Axxle]

Too many math purists

[J Reggie]

Yay, new iPhone 7 coming out and guess what, there's no headphone jack. You'll have to connect Apple approved Bluetooth wireless headphones if you want to listen to your music now. Another $100. I like Apple products, but I'm getting really sick of this blatant rip-off. I don't care if the phone is thinner. If anything, I want it bigger, so at least the battery life is better.

This is why I dislike Apple. I'm not really a big fan of their products, but I'll admit that they make some quality stuff. But the fact that they make the only hardware that runs their software means that they can pull stuff like this, forcing you to buy extra equipment if you want to use their software at all. If a manufacturer for hardware that runs Android, Windows, or whatever software competing with Apple tried this, they would lose business. But that's just me, no hard feelings towards anyone who likes Apple.

[Awaclus]

This is why I dislike Apple. I'm not really a big fan of their products, but I'll admit that they make some quality stuff. But the fact that they make the only hardware that runs their software means that they can pull stuff like this, forcing you to buy extra equipment if you want to use their software at all. If a manufacturer for hardware that runs Android, Windows, or whatever software competing with Apple tried this, they would lose business. But that's just me, no hard feelings towards anyone who likes Apple.

That's actually the only merit of Apple products for me. You don't have to worry about compatibility when they're the ones making everything you use.

Although obviously, it is not enough of a merit to compensate for the fact that you have to pay 1.5-2 times (or even more in some cases) the price for hardware with similar specs and then it comes with an OS which is far less versatile and customizable than, say, Windows.

[Titandrake]

This is why I dislike Apple. I'm not really a big fan of their products, but I'll admit that they make some quality stuff. But the fact that they make the only hardware that runs their software means that they can pull stuff like this, forcing you to buy extra equipment if you want to use their software at all. If a manufacturer for hardware that runs Android, Windows, or whatever software competing with Apple tried this, they would lose business. But that's just me, no hard feelings towards anyone who likes Apple.

That's actually the only merit of Apple products for me. You don't have to worry about compatibility when they're the ones making everything you use.

Although obviously, it is not enough of a merit to compensate for the fact that you have to pay 1.5-2 times (or even more in some cases) the price for hardware with similar specs and then it comes with an OS which is far less versatile and customizable than, say, Windows.

That may be true, but I'd say Windows is significantly more annoying to do anything in once you get used to the Unix way of doing things. A lot more things "just work" on OSX.

[Limetime]

This is why I dislike Apple. I'm not really a big fan of their products, but I'll admit that they make some quality stuff. But the fact that they make the only hardware that runs their software means that they can pull stuff like this, forcing you to buy extra equipment if you want to use their software at all. If a manufacturer for hardware that runs Android, Windows, or whatever software competing with Apple tried this, they would lose business. But that's just me, no hard feelings towards anyone who likes Apple.

That's actually the only merit of Apple products for me. You don't have to worry about compatibility when they're the ones making everything you use.

Although obviously, it is not enough of a merit to compensate for the fact that you have to pay 1.5-2 times (or even more in some cases) the price for hardware with similar specs and then it comes with an OS which is far less versatile and customizable than, say, Windows.

That may be true, but I'd say Windows is significantly more annoying to do anything in once you get used to the Unix way of doing things. A lot more things "just work" on OSX.

I would say that osx is significantly more annoying once you're used to windows too.

[Seprix]

I would say that osx is significantly more annoying once you're used to windows too.

The same is true with the opposite to some degree, at least for me.

[LastFootnote]

I would say that osx is significantly more annoying once you're used to windows too.

The same is true with the opposite to some degree, at least for me.

But the opposite of the opposite of the opposite is also true.

[Kuildeous]

The nearby barcade has a deal on Fridays where the first 100 people get 20 free tokens. They normally open at 3, and I get off work at 3. It's perfect. This month, they're opening at 11 because of a basketball thing.

Now I have to decide if I want to take a lunch break at 11 to go get tokens. They serve pizza, so I could actually eat there. It's actually not bad.

[ashersky]

The nearby barcade has a deal on Fridays where the first 100 people get 20 free tokens. They normally open at 3, and I get off work at 3. It's perfect. This month, they're opening at 11 because of a basketball thing.

Now I have to decide if I want to take a lunch break at 11 to go get tokens. They serve pizza, so I could actually eat there. It's actually not bad.

I think you've already decided.

[Awaclus]

That may be true, but I'd say Windows is significantly more annoying to do anything in once you get used to the Unix way of doing things. A lot more things "just work" on OSX.

Well, highly customizable systems are inherently more annoying once you get used to a system that doesn't expect you to spend a lot of time and effort customizing things.

[Teproc]

Having gone from Windows to Mac and back again, I think both are fine but one of them is about ten times more expensive for no particularly good reason, so...

[Titandrake]

That may be true, but I'd say Windows is significantly more annoying to do anything in once you get used to the Unix way of doing things. A lot more things "just work" on OSX.

Well, highly customizable systems are inherently more annoying once you get used to a system that doesn't expect you to spend a lot of time and effort customizing things.

Okay, I should probably clarify this: when I said annoying, I meant for programming. Unix is a highly customizable system, arguably more customizable than Windows, and I prefer it over Windows when it comes to programming. I also favor OSX over Windows for programming, because it's basically Unix at the end. For everything else, I prefer Windows.

A lot of libraries are designed for Linux/OSX first and Windows second, and trying to get them to work on Windows can be a nightmare. My current setup is an unholy mess of Windows as the OS, Cygwin on top to replicate the Unix command line, and a Debian virtual machine for anything I can't get working on Windows.

Highly customizable systems don't have to be more annoying if their system defaults are good enough for your needs. Both Windows and OSX are 95% good enough, and the remaining 5% isn't worth the cost for me.

[Limetime]

Linux>windows>mac
This is both in usefulness and price.

[Seprix]

I dunno, Windows is a pile of crap.

[Awaclus]

I dunno, Windows is a pile of crap.

Windows 10, sure. But 8.1 is absolutely amazing.

[Limetime]

I dunno, Windows is a pile of crap.

Windows 10, sure. But 8.1 is absolutely amazing.

Windows xp is really where it's at.

[sudgy]

Hey, I don't think Windows 10 is that bad...  It's what I have at the moment.

Anyway, for me, Windows > Linux > Mac

[Seprix]

Windows xp is really where it's at.

I see you are not the only one with experience (XP) on that interface.

[Watno]

aren't most linux distributions free?

[Awaclus]

Hey, I don't think Windows 10 is that bad...  It's what I have at the moment.

Well, it's not that bad for everyone, it just has some serious issues for anyone who wants to do anything confidential or shady. In 8.1, those same issues only exist in a couple of updates that you can manually delete.

[Kuildeous]

The nearby barcade has a deal on Fridays where the first 100 people get 20 free tokens. They normally open at 3, and I get off work at 3. It's perfect. This month, they're opening at 11 because of a basketball thing.

Now I have to decide if I want to take a lunch break at 11 to go get tokens. They serve pizza, so I could actually eat there. It's actually not bad.

I think you've already decided.

Indeed I did. Fun lunch break. We had to wait for the pizza to be cooked since the place doesn't normally open at 11. But I got in a lot of pinball. It's amazing how many free credits sit on those machines overnight. I got in three games of Indiana Jones, a game of Attack from Mars, and a couple games of Iron Man. I started playing some South Park, but it's not my favorite game. It had 14 credits still on it when I left it.

Video games are so much cheaper now that I'm an adult.

[Titandrake]

Found out Fallout 4 has a stealth reference to Fallout: Equestria, which is pretty cool. (If it's not intentional, it's a very strong coincidence.)

[silverspawn]

Anyone heard of this? Rowling is thoroughly selling out. Sad.

[Lekkit]

Here's the thing. If you write something that becomes as huge as Harry Potter, when you're done, you have three options. The first is to keep writing, but write other stuff. The second is to keep writing, but do HP stuff. The third option is to not write anymore.

If you write other stuff, people will ALWAYS compare it to HP. Some might even ask why she'd write other stuff when there's still a lot of HP to explore. If she writes HP stuff, she's a sellout that just want to milk the franchise. And if she stops writing... Well, she's not really an active writer anymore. It's easy to say you should quit when you're at your peak, it's a whole different story actually doing it.

[silverspawn]

Here's the thing. If you write something that becomes as huge as Harry Potter, when you're done, you have three options. The first is to keep writing, but write other stuff. The second is to keep writing, but do HP stuff. The third option is to not write anymore.

If you write other stuff, people will ALWAYS compare it to HP. Some might even ask why she'd write other stuff when there's still a lot of HP to explore. If she writes HP stuff, she's a sellout that just want to milk the franchise. And if she stops writing... Well, she's not really an active writer anymore. It's easy to say you should quit when you're at your peak, it's a whole different story actually doing it.

But I would actually be fine with her writing HP stuff. Here's what I'm not fine with

- It's not actually written by her. It's just fanfiction that got her okay.
- It seems like a stupid generic plot... Harry's Son struggles with his legacy... that has to be the least creative idea for a sequel. Also this much hype usually means a bad product.
- Hermione is played by a 46 year old black actress.

That's just cheap. Hermione is not black. HP has already plenty of anti-discrimination for various minorities, but it has always been done really smart and subtle.

I mean maybe it'll be good but ehhhhhh it seems so unlikely.

[silverspawn]

And she has actually written other stuff after HP -- I've not read it, though. I've heard that it's boring, but just from one source.

[Witherweaver]

Here's the thing. If you write something that becomes as huge as Harry Potter, when you're done, you have three options. The first is to keep writing, but write other stuff. The second is to keep writing, but do HP stuff. The third option is to not write anymore.

If you write other stuff, people will ALWAYS compare it to HP. Some might even ask why she'd write other stuff when there's still a lot of HP to explore. If she writes HP stuff, she's a sellout that just want to milk the franchise. And if she stops writing... Well, she's not really an active writer anymore. It's easy to say you should quit when you're at your peak, it's a whole different story actually doing it.

But I would actually be fine with her writing HP stuff. Here's what I'm not fine with

- It's not actually written by her. It's just fanfiction that got her okay.
- It seems like a stupid generic plot... Harry's Son struggles with his legacy... that has to be the least creative idea for a sequel. Also this much hype usually means a bad product.
- Hermione is played by a 46 year old black actress.

That's just cheap. Hermione is not black. HP has already plenty of anti-discrimination for various minorities, but it has always been done really smart and subtle.

I mean maybe it'll be good but ehhhhhh it seems so unlikely.

I don't understand the issue with race of an actor for a stage production (hell, I'm not sure even gender needs to match).  I wouldn't be bothered by it in a movie either, but maybe it's a bigger deal there, because a movie is supposed to do the job of immersing you a bit more.  But for a stage production, you're* doing more of the work of the immersion, and I don't see how the actor's physical traits really matter at all.

I also don't see what anti-discrimination or minorities has to do with it, or why it's cheap.  This seems like a completely unnecessary gripe tacked on.

*I mean, you the audience, as the person watching the play.

[Seprix]

And she has actually written other stuff after HP -- I've not read it, though. I've heard that it's boring, but just from one source.

Plays are s***. I don't care about a play. I want to read the actual book when it comes out.

[Witherweaver]

And she has actually written other stuff after HP -- I've not read it, though. I've heard that it's boring, but just from one source.

Plays are s***. I don't care about a play. I want to read the actual book when it comes out.

They are not; maybe you just haven't seen any good ones.

[Seprix]

They are not; maybe you just haven't seen any good ones.

I haven't seen any. I didn't mean all plays were garbage, I just mean the obvious bad plays are garbage. Like, the Spiderman play. And the Harry Potter play.

[Witherweaver]

They are not; maybe you just haven't seen any good ones.

I haven't seen any. I didn't mean all plays were garbage, I just mean the obvious bad plays are garbage. Like, the Spiderman play. And the Harry Potter play.

I don't know about Spider-Man play; maybe you mean the musical?  I might agree; I think musicals are a bit cheap in general, and that Spider-Man one seemed overly unnecessary.  This one may be, too.  (That being said, I'm a huge fan of some.) 

But you really can't make any criticism if you've never been to the theater.

Edit: Though this HP thing is apparently not a musical.

[yuma]

And she has actually written other stuff after HP -- I've not read it, though. I've heard that it's boring, but just from one source.

It isn't great, certainly. The Vacancy Place was decent but her Mystery Series under a pseudonym was dreadful.

[Seprix]

They are not; maybe you just haven't seen any good ones.

I haven't seen any. I didn't mean all plays were garbage, I just mean the obvious bad plays are garbage. Like, the Spiderman play. And the Harry Potter play.

I don't know about Spider-Man play; maybe you mean the musical?  I might agree; I think musicals are a bit cheap in general, and that Spider-Man one seemed overly unnecessary.  This one may be, too.  (That being said, I'm a huge fan of some.) 

But you really can't make any criticism if you've never been to the theater.

Edit: Though this HP thing is apparently not a musical.

I like Shakespeare, actually.

[yuma]

And I was under the impression that the race of Hermione was up for interpretation in that it was never specifically stated. Even if she didn't have a black girl in mind when she was writing it that doesn't mean the character can't be black when a person is reading it. If she had specifically said she was of Caucasian decent that might be a different story.

And no one through a fit when Denzel Washington played Don Pedro in Shakespeare's "Much Ado about Nothing" where the first actor to play him was almost certainly not black. Race is very much up to interpretation in theater.

[eHalcyon]

Here's the thing. If you write something that becomes as huge as Harry Potter, when you're done, you have three options. The first is to keep writing, but write other stuff. The second is to keep writing, but do HP stuff. The third option is to not write anymore.

If you write other stuff, people will ALWAYS compare it to HP. Some might even ask why she'd write other stuff when there's still a lot of HP to explore. If she writes HP stuff, she's a sellout that just want to milk the franchise. And if she stops writing... Well, she's not really an active writer anymore. It's easy to say you should quit when you're at your peak, it's a whole different story actually doing it.

But I would actually be fine with her writing HP stuff. Here's what I'm not fine with

- It's not actually written by her. It's just fanfiction that got her okay.
- It seems like a stupid generic plot... Harry's Son struggles with his legacy... that has to be the least creative idea for a sequel. Also this much hype usually means a bad product.
- Hermione is played by a 46 year old black actress.

That's just cheap. Hermione is not black. HP has already plenty of anti-discrimination for various minorities, but it has always been done really smart and subtle.

I mean maybe it'll be good but ehhhhhh it seems so unlikely.

1. Is that true?  The page you linked says she was part of the writing process.  In any case, there's nothing inherently wrong with fan-fiction.
2. Synopses are always vague and generic.  There's no telling what the plot will actually be like based on the description here.
3. Was Hermione's race ever specified in the books?  I'm betting it wasn't.  And the play is set years after HP7 so the age is fine...

And she has actually written other stuff after HP -- I've not read it, though. I've heard that it's boring, but just from one source.

She published it under a pseudonym and it was OK.  Then it was leaked and people made a big deal about it, compared it to Harry Potter and generally clamoured for more Harry Potter.

They are not; maybe you just haven't seen any good ones.

I haven't seen any. I didn't mean all plays were garbage, I just mean the obvious bad plays are garbage. Like, the Spiderman play. And the Harry Potter play.

Seems a bit premature to say that.

[Witherweaver]

And I was under the impression that the race of Hermione was up for interpretation in that it was never specifically stated. Even if she didn't have a black girl in mind when she was writing it that doesn't mean the character can't be black when a person is reading it. If she had specifically said she was of Caucasian decent that might be a different story.

And no one through a fit when Denzel Washington played Don Pedro in Shakespeare's "Much Ado about Nothing" where the first actor to play him was almost certainly not black. Race is very much up to interpretation in theater.

I think it doesn't even matter, even if it is not up to interpretation.  I wouldn't have an issue of a white actor portraying a slave* in a play, an adult portraying a child, etc.  As long as the portrayal is believable.  I mean.. you, in the audience, do the imagining yourself.  There are props and scenery, but it's really pretty minor.  The actors (and, really, the script) bring these things to life.  Race just doesn't matter.

*Edit: So here I mean a black slave in, say, colonial America.

[Seprix]

Oh, wow. There's not even a book. It's literally JUST A PLAY. Count me out, I'll just read the plot on Wikipedia or something. And it's two parts, which means double the ticket sales. Not impressive.

[Lekkit]

But I would actually be fine with her writing HP stuff. Here's what I'm not fine with

- It's not actually written by her. It's just fanfiction that got her okay.

I didn't know this. But it says it's based on "A new story by Rowling and some other people". So it can't be she's not involved? Also, I think this is MUCH better than the Fifty Shades of Grey scenario.

- It seems like a stupid generic plot... Harry's Son struggles with his legacy... that has to be the least creative idea for a sequel. Also this much hype usually means a bad product.

So a chosen orphan boy living with his evil aunt and uncle finding out he has magical powers and is supposed to battle the darkest and evilest lord ever isn't?

- Hermione is played by a 46 year old black actress.

That's just cheap. Hermione is not black. HP has already plenty of anti-discrimination for various minorities, but it has always been done really smart and subtle.

Err... I may be misremembering, but I think she's pretty much only described as a girl with unruly kind of curly dark hair and weird teeth. Either way, I'm pretty sure she isn't explicitly mentioned as caucasian/white. I mean, she could be of Indian descent for all I know. Also, even if she was, I don't think this is or should be an issue. I mean Jesus Christ Superstar is traditionally set in a more modern era. And usually Jesus is said to have lived a long time ago.

I mean maybe it'll be good but ehhhhhh it seems so unlikely.

I think it could be good, it could also be bad. I'll wait and see. Worth noting is that I'm not a huge HP fan. I think they are a decent read (most of them anyway) and the films are probably worth watching.

[Witherweaver]

Err... I may be misremembering, but I think she's pretty much only described as a girl with unruly kind of curly dark hair and weird teeth. Either way, I'm pretty sure she isn't explicitly mentioned as caucasian/white. I mean, she could be of Indian descent for all I know. Also, even if she was, I don't think this is or should be an issue. I mean Jesus Christ Superstar is traditionally set in a more modern era. And usually Jesus is said to have lived a long time ago.

Hmm?  Have you seen Jesus Christ Superstar?  I've only ever seen it taking place in Roman time.  (Though, the music is modernized.  And maybe the final number is ambiguous; I don't quite remember.)

Also, notably, in Jesus Christ Superstar, Judas was played by a black man in the well-known production, and also in the one I saw.  Real-life Judas, if he existed, was probably not black.

[Kirian]

Here's the thing. If you write something that becomes as huge as Harry Potter, when you're done, you have three options. The first is to keep writing, but write other stuff. The second is to keep writing, but do HP stuff. The third option is to not write anymore.

Impressively, she's done both options 1 and 2.

- It's not actually written by her. It's just fanfiction that got her okay.

So?  How is that a problem?

- It seems like a stupid generic plot... Harry's Son struggles with his legacy... that has to be the least creative idea for a sequel. Also this much hype usually means a bad product.

This one I can at least see as reasonable.

- Hermione is played by a 46 year old black actress... That's just cheap. Hermione is not black.

This one, though... man, this is easily provable or not.  Please tell me what book and chapter (page numbers are going to be hard to sync) indicates Hermione's race.  Until then, Hermione's race is entirely up to the reader.  And since this is, as you note, fanfiction... well, you get the idea.

[Kirian]

Also, notably, in Jesus Christ Superstar, Judas was played by a black man in the well-known production, and also in the one I saw.  Real-life Judas, if he existed, was probably not black.

To be fair, both Jesus and Judas (assuming they existed) were almost certainly closer to the color of a typical African-American than the color of a typical white American.

[Lekkit]

Hmm?  Have you seen Jesus Christ Superstar?  I've only ever seen it taking place in Roman time.  (Though, the music is modernized.  And maybe the final number is ambiguous; I don't quite remember.)

I've seen three movie adaptations (one was a stage production that was turned into a movie and the other was made with a stage production in mind) and one stage adaptation (in Swedish). They were all modernized.

[Tables]

Five minutes ago I was carefully balancing which spells to use and how to have my Pirate smash the enemy most efficiently. Now I just opened up a battle by lobbing a cake at the enemy, having a cake thrown back at me and soon I might be summoning some kittens.

Bravely Second can be a strange RPG.

[Witherweaver]

Hmm?  Have you seen Jesus Christ Superstar?  I've only ever seen it taking place in Roman time.  (Though, the music is modernized.  And maybe the final number is ambiguous; I don't quite remember.)

I've seen three movie adaptations (one was a stage production that was turned into a movie and the other was made with a stage production in mind) and one stage adaptation (in Swedish). They were all modernized.

Ah, okay.  I see what you mean.  I think it still 'takes place' in Jesus' time, but with intentional anachronisms for style.  Maybe to emphasize the idea that, if he was around now, he'd be a pop idol.

But okay.  I don't remember if the live performance I saw had this (guns and stuff).  I don't remember it.

[Lekkit]

Ah, okay.  I see what you mean.  I think it still 'takes place' in Jesus' time, but with intentional anachronisms for style.  Maybe to emphasize the idea that, if he was around now, he'd be a pop idol.

But okay.  I don't remember if the live performance I saw had this (guns and stuff).  I don't remember it.

I think my point still stands. There are various "settings" being used. And people don't really complain about it.

[Witherweaver]

Ah, okay.  I see what you mean.  I think it still 'takes place' in Jesus' time, but with intentional anachronisms for style.  Maybe to emphasize the idea that, if he was around now, he'd be a pop idol.

But okay.  I don't remember if the live performance I saw had this (guns and stuff).  I don't remember it.

I think my point still stands. There are various "settings" being used. And people don't really complain about it.

And, well, while we're at at it, real life Jesus wouldn't have been Caucasian.~

[silverspawn]

Oh, I didn't except everyone to disagree with me on the Hermione issue.

I think it's super, extremely lame and cheap because it implies that she's been black all along and it has not been mentioned. Look, I know you want to preach equality, but Hermione just is. not. black. She's one of the main characters. It would have been mentioned at some point.  Even the wiki says she's not black.

And the book series has actually already been preaching equality for various groups

- Dumbledore is meant to be gay, which if you didn't know I'm sure will immediately make a lot of sense
- Angelina is black. I'm pretty sure it's briefly mentioned, but most people don't remember it. She's described as pretty, liked by everyone, etc
- The whole blood status issue is quite reminiscent of the Holocaust-- Hilter is actually quite similar to Voldemort; they are both the leaders of a group that hates on a minority and promotes a certain group that's the opposite while they themselves are not even part of that promoted group.
- The whole house elves thing, and the issues with other races in the seventh book, all about oppression and slavery.

See what all of these have in common? They're subtle, and they all make perfect sense. Hermione being black is incredibly bland and dumb pandering.

[silverspawn]

- It's not actually written by her. It's just fanfiction that got her okay.

So?  How is that a problem?

Because I remember her saying in an interview that she will never allow other authors to continue the harry potter universe, because harry potter is hers and only she understands him.

[Witherweaver]

It isn't an issue of equality, it's just that it is completely unnecessary to match ethnicity of a stage actor with his or her character.  It's a bit presumptuous to assume that not doing so is pandering.

[silverspawn]

And the play is set years after HP7 so the age is fine...

Well, they say it's 19 years, so she'd most likely be 37. But okay, sure, a nine year difference isn't a big deal, nevermind the age.

And I was under the impression that the race of Hermione was up for interpretation in that it was never specifically stated.

Wouldn't Harry's be too, then? Actually, if Harry was black, I could respect it more-- at least that's making a real statement, and it's bold.

The school is in London. Other countries have their own schools. You would assume white unless stated otherwise, and it has been stated otherwise for other characters.

It isn't an issue of equality, it's just that it is completely unnecessary to match ethnicity of a stage actor with his or her character.  It's a bit presumptuous to assume that not doing so is pandering.

Come on, all the fans have imagined how the characters look like. It's not like you don't have the money to try to be authentic.

[ashersky]

Hmm?  Have you seen Jesus Christ Superstar?  I've only ever seen it taking place in Roman time.  (Though, the music is modernized.  And maybe the final number is ambiguous; I don't quite remember.)

I've seen three movie adaptations (one was a stage production that was turned into a movie and the other was made with a stage production in mind) and one stage adaptation (in Swedish). They were all modernized.

Ah, okay.  I see what you mean.  I think it still 'takes place' in Jesus' time, but with intentional anachronisms for style.  Maybe to emphasize the idea that, if he was around now, he'd be a pop idol.

But okay.  I don't remember if the live performance I saw had this (guns and stuff).  I don't remember it.

Ian McKellen's Richard III, Kenneth Branagh's Hamlet, and Ethan Hawke's Hamlet are all examples of plays adapted into movies that aren't set in the same time as the original.

It's really not that odd at all for a play to be "modernized" or whatever you want to call it.  It generally irks me, but there are good ones (like those I mentioned).

[Witherweaver]

It isn't an issue of equality, it's just that it is completely unnecessary to match ethnicity of a stage actor with his or her character.  It's a bit presumptuous to assume that not doing so is pandering.

Come on, all the fans have imagined how the characters look like. It's not like you don't have the money to try to be authentic.

It's not being unauthentic at all.

There are gobs and gobs of gobs of examples.  One of the big Eponine's in a Les Mis production wasn't white, for instance. 

[ashersky]

Harry, Ron, and Hermoine at least have all been on official covers for the books -- doesn't that officially answer the skin color question?

I mean, she used ethnic names when she wanted to emphasize something (Cho, Patel, etc.).

[silverspawn]

Harry, Ron, and Hermoine at least have all been on official covers for the books -- doesn't that officially answer the skin color question?

... yeah, duh. Great point.

@WW if you're saying that it's normal for plays or something... well I don't know about plays. Doesn't make it less lame, though.

[Lekkit]

Oh, I didn't except everyone to disagree with me on the Hermione issue.

I think it's super, extremely lame and cheap because it implies that she's been black all along and it has not been mentioned. Look, I know you want to preach equality, but Hermione just is. not. black. She's one of the main characters. It would have been mentioned at some point.  Even the wiki says she's not black.

All it "implies" is that she might as well be. I don't see how this is an issue? She's not stated as either dark or light skinned. Apart from that quote that the wiki use as source for her "pale skin" description. I'm sure Rowling "intended" her to be light skinned. But does that matter? I don't think casting a non-UK person to play any of the roles would matter either.

Come on, all the fans have imagined how the characters look like. It's not like you don't have the money to try to be authentic.

Since I've watched the movies, I imagine Hermione to look like Emma Watson. That means anyone that isn't her is "looking wrong".

[Witherweaver]

Harry, Ron, and Hermoine at least have all been on official covers for the books -- doesn't that officially answer the skin color question?

... yeah, duh. Great point.

@WW if you're saying that it's normal for plays or something... well I don't know about plays. Doesn't make it less lame, though.

It is not at all lame, in any way whatsoever.  You don't have an argument here.

You could say something, like, if race is central the story then we try to match races, but for something like this it completely, 100%, does not matter at all.

[Witherweaver]

Some discussion regarding specifically Les Mis: http://mdn.chanvrerie.net/colour-blind-casting-in-les-miserables-__o_t__t_72995.html

[Witherweaver]

The problem here is that you're assuming this production cast this actress because she was black (unless you have something to support this?), and not because she was simply the person they wanted for the part for her abilities as an actress.

[ashersky]

The problem here is that you're assuming this production cast this actress because she was black (unless you have something to support this?), and not because she was simply the person they wanted for the part for her abilities as an actress.

Leontyne Price is the best example of can think of to support your argument.

She's been every major opera soprano ever.  Madame Butterfly was not black, but it didn't matter.  Price had those roles based on her incredible voice.

[silverspawn]

Okay, to end this discussion about what skin color she really has - it actually is stated in the books.

Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban, chapter 21 : "Hermione's white face was sticking out from behind a tree."

(See? Subtle! I'm sure this has been intentional.)

The problem here is that you're assuming this production cast this actress because she was black (unless you have something to support this?), and not because she was simply the person they wanted for the part for her abilities as an actress.

Yes, I do. But even if that were not the case, it'd still be lame. It's inauthentic by the definition of the word.

[Witherweaver]

Okay, to end this discussion about what skin color she really has - it actually is stated in the books.

Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban, chapter 21 : "Hermione's white face was sticking out from behind a tree."

(See? Subtle! I'm sure this has been intentional.)

The problem here is that you're assuming this production cast this actress because she was black (unless you have something to support this?), and not because she was simply the person they wanted for the part for her abilities as an actress.

Yes, I do. But even if that were not the case, it'd still be lame. It's inauthentic by the definition of the word.

No, you're prescribing inconsequential characteristics as important.  By your logic every character portrayal is inauthentic.  Should we cripple an actor to play a cripple?  I saw Dracula on the stage once, and I swear that dude wasn't really from Transylvania.  Come to think of it, I don't think he was really a vampire!

[Witherweaver]

Must be those god damned anti Vampire lobbyists again.  Disgraceful. 

[silverspawn]

Should we cripple an actor to play a cripple?

No, but you should make him look like a cripple and do things like a cripple.

I saw Dracula on the stage once, and I swear that dude wasn't really from Transylvania.  Come to think of it, I don't think he was really a vampire!

No, but they tried to make him look like a vampire, and act like a vampire.

Do you think appearance is inconsequential? If you don't think that, then skin color is not inconsequential. White people look very different from black people - they have a different skin color.

[Witherweaver]

Should we cripple an actor to play a cripple?

No, but you should make him look like a cripple and do things like a cripple.

I saw Dracula on the stage once, and I swear that dude wasn't really from Transylvania.  Come to think of it, I don't think he was really a vampire!

No, but they tried to make him look like a vampire, and act like a vampire.

Do you think appearance is inconsequential? If you don't think that, then skin color is not inconsequential. White people look very different from black people - they have a different skin color.

And what part of Hermoine's character relies on the color of her skin?

But it's a separate point; even if her skin color *did* matter, it's not necessary for the actor to share this skin color; only for it to be portrayed.  When you're watching a play, you do the imagining yourself.  You suspend disbelief and let the production fill your imagination.  Have you ever actually seen a play before?

[Awaclus]

Why does anyone care? It's a crappy continuation of a mediocre series, it's not like you're actually going to see the play or anything.

[Witherweaver]

Also, those were reductio ad absurdum examples to show the issue with 'inauthentic by the definition of the word.'

[Seprix]

Why does anyone care? It's a crappy continuation of a mediocre series, it's not like you're actually going to see the play or anything.

Oh, Awaclus.

[Witherweaver]

It's an issue if you're saying ethnicity Y people cannot play roles based on source material where the base character had ethnicity Z.  Especially when the relative sizes of Y, Z, etc. have great disparity. 

[Lekkit]

Okay, to end this discussion about what skin color she really has - it actually is stated in the books.

Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban, chapter 21 : "Hermione's white face was sticking out from behind a tree."

(See? Subtle! I'm sure this has been intentional.)

I'm going to assume this is where they're running from werewolves and dementors. I could easily see someone describing someone's face as white if you're being chased by crazy stuff. BUT I think this shows that Rowling thought of Hermione as light skinned. But I don't think it's her intentional way of saying "she's definately white, guys! I'll point to this later!".

Why does anyone care? It's a crappy continuation of a mediocre series, it's not like you're actually going to see the play or anything.

It's the INTERNET! And we think someone's wrong. So we have to correct them.

[silverspawn]

I'm going to assume this is where they're running from werewolves and dementors. I could easily see someone describing someone's face as white if you're being chased by crazy stuff. BUT I think this shows that Rowling thought of Hermione as light skinned. But I don't think it's her intentional way of saying "she's definately white, guys! I'll point to this later!".

I would bet at least 100$ against 20$ that it is in fact what she is saying, intentionally. It's not the first time that she packs information into such small details; e.g. you can infer the date at which the books are taking place from the date of death of the headless nick and his 1000th celebration thing - and that date was stated once in the very first book. The series has an amazing attention to detail.

Why does anyone care? It's a crappy continuation of a mediocre series, it's not like you're actually going to see the play or anything.

I think the harry potter series is a masterpiece - that's why I care; otherwise I wouldn't.

It's an issue if you're saying ethnicity Y people cannot play roles based on source material where the base character had ethnicity Z.  Especially when the relative sizes of Y, Z, etc. have great disparity. 

I'm saying that if a black person plays a white person in a stage play or vice versa then you're being inauthentic because they look different. Other assets, cultural, whatever, different story, because you can't see them. They're actors, they play a character.

[Witherweaver]

I'm saying that if a black person plays a white person in a stage play or vice versa then you're being inauthentic because they look different. Other assets, cultural, whatever, different story, because you can't see them. They're actors, they play a character.

And this has precisely happened, many many times, to no negative consequence.

[KingZog3]

Whether she's white or not, it's not important for the character or the plot. If you make a movie about slavery you don't caste a white guy as a black slave. You cast a black guy. But Hermione's character isn't affected by her skin colour, nor is any situation she's in get affected by it, so it doesn't matter who they cast for the role.

[Witherweaver]

Whether she's white or not, it's not important for the character or the plot. If you make a movie about slavery you don't caste a white guy as a black slave. You cast a black guy. But Hermione's character isn't affected by her skin colour, nor is any situation she's in get affected by it, so it doesn't matter who they cast for the role.

I wouldn't say you have to cast a black guy; you only need to portray the character as being black, given that it's important.  If casting a black actor is your way of doing it, fine.  If you want to do it in another way (that works), fine.

[silverspawn]

Whether she's white or not, it's not important for the character or the plot. If you make a movie about slavery you don't caste a white guy as a black slave. You cast a black guy. But Hermione's character isn't affected by her skin colour, nor is any situation she's in get affected by it, so it doesn't matter who they cast for the role.

I can assure you: it matters. People care about it. For many, if they are deeply invested into a series, and it is put into a visual medium, they care how the characters look. I mean, of course they do. Why do you think movies are flooded with pretty looking people? People care how other people look.

[Witherweaver]

Plus there is a big difference between stage and movies.  Visual imagery for immersion is much more important in a movie, and not for theater.

Whether she's white or not, it's not important for the character or the plot. If you make a movie about slavery you don't caste a white guy as a black slave. You cast a black guy. But Hermione's character isn't affected by her skin colour, nor is any situation she's in get affected by it, so it doesn't matter who they cast for the role.

I can assure you: it matters. People care about it. For many, if they are deeply invested into a series, and it is put into a visual medium, they care how the characters look. I mean, of course they do. Why do you think movies are flooded with pretty looking people? People care how other people look.

This is what makes me think you haven't seen plays before.

[silverspawn]

This is what makes me think you haven't seen plays before.

I haven't seen plays before.

And the audience for this play is not the community that knows plays well; it's the community that knows the harry potter series well. There are a lot of harry potter fans out there, they are going to watch this.

[Lekkit]

I would bet at least 100$ against 20$ that it is in fact what she is saying, intentionally. It's not the first time that she packs information into such small details; e.g. you can infer the date at which the books are taking place from the date of death of the headless nick and his 1000th celebration thing - and that date was stated once in the very first book. The series has an amazing attention to detail.

The series also has a bunch of plot holes and stuff that doesn't make sense. I don't think it has an amazing attention to detail.

[Seprix]

This is probably more posts in one day than Random Stuff Part III has had in it's entire history.

[Lekkit]

Probably.

[Witherweaver]

This is what makes me think you haven't seen plays before.

I haven't seen plays before.

And the audience for this play is not the community that knows plays well; it's the community that knows the harry potter series well. There are a lot of harry potter fans out there, they are going to watch this.

This applies to all the other examples.  It's not an issue.

[silverspawn]

I would bet at least 100$ against 20$ that it is in fact what she is saying, intentionally. It's not the first time that she packs information into such small details; e.g. you can infer the date at which the books are taking place from the date of death of the headless nick and his 1000th celebration thing - and that date was stated once in the very first book. The series has an amazing attention to detail.

The series also has a bunch of plot holes and stuff that doesn't make sense. I don't think it has an amazing attention to detail.

It does have plot holes. I don't think that means that it doesn't have amazing attention to detail. I don't think they're the same thing; one is more about story construction, the other thing is about, well, details. And it's also very few plot holes given the scope of the story.

Although I tried to google it and don't want to hide it just because it backs up your case; here is what Rowling has said (in response to the people who cared about her skin color in the play) (on Twitter):

Canon: brown eyes, frizzy hair and very clever. White skin was never specified. Rowling loves black Hermione

[Awaclus]

I would bet at least 100$ against 20$ that it is in fact what she is saying, intentionally. It's not the first time that she packs information into such small details; e.g. you can infer the date at which the books are taking place from the date of death of the headless nick and his 1000th celebration thing - and that date was stated once in the very first book. The series has an amazing attention to detail.

I'll accept the bet!

Given that Rowling tweeted this:

Canon: brown eyes, frizzy hair and very clever. White skin was never specified. Rowling loves black Hermione 😘

It doesn't really sound like she even remembers that detail herself.

EDIT: Oh, you actually just posted this yourself. Didn't see it in the PPE while I was digging for the quote for some reason.

I think the harry potter series is a masterpiece

O-oh. Okay then.


On another note, how can people have not seen any plays? I'm not even super into plays myself, but I've still seen dozens of them.

[silverspawn]

I'll accept the bet!

Well after finding that quote, I wouldn't make the bet anymore. I'd give it about 50% now, maybe a bit less -- she's already sold her soul, in my view, so I wouldn't put it past her to lie here.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I love plays, I see plays all the time, who wants to talk about plays?

[Lekkit]

I've mostly seen amateur plays and musicals.

[Witherweaver]

I love plays, I see plays all the time, who wants to talk about plays?

I saw Venus in Fur (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_in_Fur) by David Ives a few years ago.  It was one of my favorite things I've seen on stage.

I also saw Waiting for Godot with Patrick Stewart, Ian McKellen, Billy Crudup.  Very good.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I've mostly seen amateur plays and musicals.

Sometimes that's the best stuff.

I love plays, I see plays all the time, who wants to talk about plays?

I saw Venus in Fur (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_in_Fur) by David Ives a few years ago.  It was one of my favorite things I've seen on stage.

I also saw Waiting for Godot with Patrick Stewart, Ian McKellen, Billy Crudup.  Very good.

  super jealous

[iguanaiguana]

I love plays, I see plays all the time, who wants to talk about plays?

Ambassadoring the last province for the win
Using poor house effectively in a deck that can't trash coppers
Building up to a successful coppersmith megaturn
Even something as simple and mundane as KC/KC/Bridge/Bridge/Bridge

These are all fine plays that I respect every time I see.

[ashersky]

To add fuel to the fire: Earthsea.

[Watno]

I would bet at least 100$ against 20$ that it is in fact what she is saying, intentionally. It's not the first time that she packs information into such small details; e.g. you can infer the date at which the books are taking place from the date of death of the headless nick and his 1000th celebration thing - and that date was stated once in the very first book. The series has an amazing attention to detail.

Am the days of the week are frequently inconsistent with these dates. The phases of the moon basically never match up.

[silverspawn]

Am the days of the week are frequently inconsistent with these dates. The phases of the moon basically never match up.

err what?

[Witherweaver]

To add fuel to the fire: Earthsea.

Is that an example of casting separate from source race?  Morgan Freeman in The Shawshank Redemption is an example.  In the novel, his character was specifically and unambiguously stated to be Irish (like, white-skin, red-head Irish, hence the name, 'Red').  The movie makes a reference to this (there is a line by Freeman, "Maybe because I'm Irish" about his name), which I always thought was extremely clever. 

Also, one of the best (or just the best?) adaptations of a book to screen. 

[eHalcyon]

Okay, to end this discussion about what skin color she really has - it actually is stated in the books.

Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban, chapter 21 : "Hermione's white face was sticking out from behind a tree."

(See? Subtle! I'm sure this has been intentional.)

I'm going to assume this is where they're running from werewolves and dementors. I could easily see someone describing someone's face as white if you're being chased by crazy stuff. BUT I think this shows that Rowling thought of Hermione as light skinned. But I don't think it's her intentional way of saying "she's definately white, guys! I'll point to this later!".

There's also this at the beginning of Azkaban:

They were there, both of them, sitting outside Florean Fortescue’s Ice Cream Parlor — Ron looking incredibly freckly, Hermione very brown, both waving frantically at him.

And definition 5 of "white" from dictionary.com:

pallid or pale, as from fear or other strong emotion: white with rage.

This fits the context of the scene where that description is used.

This outrage just reminds me of all the people complaining that Rue in Hunger Games was played by a black girl even though she was explicitly described as such in the books.  It's a little more understandable here since Hermione's race is ambiguous, but still.

To add fuel to the fire: Earthsea.

Is that an example of casting separate from source race?  Morgan Freeman in The Shawshank Redemption is an example.  In the novel, his character was specifically and unambiguously stated to be Irish (like, white-skin, red-head Irish, hence the name, 'Red').  The movie makes a reference to this (there is a line by Freeman, "Maybe because I'm Irish" about his name), which I always thought was extremely clever.

Also, one of the best (or just the best?) adaptations of a book to screen. 

Almost all (or actually all?) of the main characters in Earthsea are black.  This was not necessarily important to the plot (I read it long ago) but it was important to the author, who noted the near-complete lack of POC main characters in fantasy and sci-fi and strove to do better in her work.

IIRC, a TV mini-series for Earthsea was produced and pretty much the entire cast was white-washed.  Maybe they could argue that the actors were the right ones for the job, except they were kind of bland and terrible?  I'm not sure, I did not watch the series and I'm only half-remembering the discussion from when this was current news.


Regarding the point about Morgan Freeman, the problem is that Hollywood has a long history of casting white actors to play POC.  Some examples that come to mind are The Last Airbender and pretty much every single Hollywood film set in ancient Egypt.  When this happens and POC complain, the overwhelming response tends to be "it's an interpretation" or "they're just the best actor for the role", etc.  When the reverse happens and a non-white actor is cast in a role traditionally perceived as white, those same people freak out.  And note that this is far less common.

[Haddock]

There's also this at the beginning of Azkaban:

They were there, both of them, sitting outside Florean Fortescue’s Ice Cream Parlor — Ron looking incredibly freckly, Hermione very brown, both waving frantically at him.

I don't have a problem with a black Hermione. At all.

But I wanted to chime in to say that this argument doesn't work so much.
If I remember rightly this quote is from immediately after Hermione has been on holiday somewhere beachy.  It's a comment on her tan.  So really it supports the idea that she's canonically white.  Otherwise commenting on her tan wouldn't really be a thing.

[iguanaiguana]

Adding more fuel to the fire

[silverspawn]

This outrage just reminds me of all the people complaining that Rue in Hunger Games was played by a black girl even though she was explicitly described as such in the books.  It's a little more understandable here since Hermione's race is ambiguous, but still.

That's not the same, that's the opposite. Rue would have sucked were she white in the movie.

And if someone is looking 'Very brown' that's even another indicator for her being white, since she was just on a vacation in France--- if she was brown anyway, it wouldn't make sense to say it in that context.

[silverspawn]

and her race is not ambigious. even if she has not done it on purpose, saying she has a white face means she's white, end of story.

[Witherweaver]

http://www.yourdictionary.com/white-faced

[ashersky]

Patrick Stewart played Othello as well.

[silverspawn]

http://www.yourdictionary.com/white-faced

Yes. It's a saying. It's a saying that became popular among white people. Do you honestly think a black person would describe another black person as white faced if he had just been scared? Obviously it it's a thing of our culture.

Plus they're on the covers. I can't believe we're really having this argument.

[Witherweaver]

http://www.yourdictionary.com/white-faced

Yes. It's a saying. It's a saying that became popular among white people. Do you honestly think a black person would describe another black person as white faced if he had just been scared? Obviously it it's a thing of our culture.

Plus they're on the covers. I can't believe we're really having this argument.

If it's in the context of being scared, white-face means pale, as in the reddish color from normal blood flow has left your face.  Contrast to flush, where your face is red from increased flow.  This is a human thing, not a racial thing, though obviously not noticeable the lighter someone's skin is.

This argument isn't about Hermione's imagined race by the author, which I couldn't care less about, but about your misappropriation of phrases.

Also, as an aside, you should try not being racist some time and see how it suits you.

[ashersky]

Someone start a Black Hermoine thread in RSP and take this there, please.

[2.71828.....]

[KingZog3]

Whether she's white or not, it's not important for the character or the plot. If you make a movie about slavery you don't caste a white guy as a black slave. You cast a black guy. But Hermione's character isn't affected by her skin colour, nor is any situation she's in get affected by it, so it doesn't matter who they cast for the role.

I wouldn't say you have to cast a black guy; you only need to portray the character as being black, given that it's important.  If casting a black actor is your way of doing it, fine.  If you want to do it in another way (that works), fine.

This is close to RSP, but this means black face is ok. It's not really ok.
EDIT:

Someone start a Black Hermoine thread in RSP and take this there, please.

Oops. I didn't read this. I'll move to RSP if there's a thread there now.

[Mic Qsenoch]

But what will it do to my Saturday???

[Axxle]

the balloon popped so your Saturday will have to go unmade

[Burning Skull]

Lord Bottington and his family are playing with rats.

[Watno]

Am the days of the week are frequently inconsistent with these dates. The phases of the moon basically never match up.

err what?

Stuff like this:

The zoo trip took place on Saturday, but Dudley's eleventh birthday (June 23, 1991) actually was on a Sunday.

(http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Mistakes_in_the_Harry_Potter_books, there are many more exampls there)

[silverspawn]

Am the days of the week are frequently inconsistent with these dates. The phases of the moon basically never match up.

err what?

Stuff like this:

The zoo trip took place on Saturday, but Dudley's eleventh birthday (June 23, 1991) actually was on a Sunday.

(http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Mistakes_in_the_Harry_Potter_books, there are many more exampls there)

Oh, I see. Interesting.

[Donald X.]

To add fuel to the fire: Earthsea.

Is that an example of casting separate from source race?

I suspect it was an example of Harry Potter being unoriginal.

A Wizard of Earthsea is an Ursula K. Le Guin novel about a kid who goes to wizard school (then other stuff happens). It's been some years but I remember liking it. It of course predates Harry Potter by decades. And someone asked the author what she thought of Harry Potter, and she said something like, well I don't feel ripped off or anything, but I don't know why anyone says Rowling is original.

A Wizard of Earthsea also has this concept of things having names that give you power over them, which The Name of the Wind uses.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Interesting.

I knew it!
This is getting to be a lot of work.

[Awaclus]

Earthsea is super better than Harry Potter.

[Witherweaver]

To add fuel to the fire: Earthsea.

Is that an example of casting separate from source race?

I suspect it was an example of Harry Potter being unoriginal.

A Wizard of Earthsea is an Ursula K. Le Guin novel about a kid who goes to wizard school (then other stuff happens). It's been some years but I remember liking it. It of course predates Harry Potter by decades. And someone asked the author what she thought of Harry Potter, and she said something like, well I don't feel ripped off or anything, but I don't know why anyone says Rowling is original.

A Wizard of Earthsea also has this concept of things having names that give you power over them, which The Name of the Wind uses.

This rates levels of interest meriting comment.

I remembered I had seen this idea (power through names) used by other authors as well.  I think it comes up in the Dresden series.

[Awaclus]

I remembered I had seen this idea (power through names) used by other authors as well.  I think it comes up in the Dresden series.

Before Christianity, people in Finland actually believed in power through names (EDIT: in the sense that if you knew the true name of iron, for example, you could touch a piece of hot iron and it couldn't burn you).

[Witherweaver]

I remembered I had seen this idea (power through names) used by other authors as well.  I think it comes up in the Dresden series.

Before Christianity, people in Finland actually believed in power through names.

Right, well I guess most fantasy stuff has roots in mythologies.

[Axxle]

It's hardly a new concept, it's called "true names". https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_name

Rumpelstiltskin is a good example of a story with it that's existed for thousands of years https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumpelstiltskin

[Kirian]

I'm pretty certain both "kid learns about special powers s/he wasn't aware of and enters a magical world" and "names give you power over things" predate Ursula LeGuin as well.

[Donald X.]

It's hardly a new concept, it's called "true names". https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_name

Rumpelstiltskin is a good example of a story with it that's existed for thousands of years https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumpelstiltskin

Rumpelstiltskin, what? The name had no power. I am looking at the link, it gives no power to the name.

I'm pretty certain both "kid learns about special powers s/he wasn't aware of and enters a magical world" and "names give you power over things" predate Ursula LeGuin as well.

I don't equate "kid learns about special powers s/he wasn't aware of and enters a magical world" with "school for wizards."

It's not that "school for wizards" is a hard concept to think of. It's that Le Guin got there first, with a well-known book. If your first thought when Harry Potter hit the news wasn't "oh, like A Wizard of Earthsea?" then I don't know what to tell you.

[eHalcyon]

There's also this at the beginning of Azkaban:

They were there, both of them, sitting outside Florean Fortescue’s Ice Cream Parlor — Ron looking incredibly freckly, Hermione very brown, both waving frantically at him.

I don't have a problem with a black Hermione. At all.

But I wanted to chime in to say that this argument doesn't work so much.
If I remember rightly this quote is from immediately after Hermione has been on holiday somewhere beachy.  It's a comment on her tan.  So really it supports the idea that she's canonically white.  Otherwise commenting on her tan wouldn't really be a thing.

I think people have argued that if she were just tanned, it would have said "tanned" instead of "brown".  But my point was more that we shouldn't read too much into the colours in this quotation or the other.  "White" in context was likely just a reference to Hermione's emotional state.

[Darth Vader]

Enough about Harry Potter. Let's talk about Star Wars.

[Awaclus]

Enough about Harry Potter. Let's talk about Star Wars.

Why does anyone care? It's a crappy continuation of a mediocre series

[Darth Vader]

Enough about Harry Potter. Let's talk about Star Wars.

Why does anyone care? It's a crappy continuation of a mediocre series

If Awaclus could be turned, he would make a very powerful ally...

[silverspawn]

In this case I agree with Awaclus. I don't even think the starwars movies qualify as 'mediocre'.

[Burning Skull]

Not a huge fan of the first six Star Wars movies, but at least they were enjoyable to watch.
The last one was a plain nightmare. The only good thing about this movie is a girl in the main role IMO.

[Kuildeous]

If it's in the context of being scared, white-face means pale, as in the reddish color from normal blood flow has left your face.  Contrast to flush, where your face is red from increased flow.  This is a human thing, not a racial thing, though obviously not noticeable the lighter someone's skin is.

The fact that we use white-faced to describe the effect of blood drained from the face definitely shows the Caucasian-centric nature of that phrase. But that is the nature of language.

I wonder if the efficacy of gamification is mostly a generational thing. I know that there are gamers out there who seek to complete every achievement in a game, but I just usually ignore them. It does help me know ahead of time if my action in XCom 2 is great. Before the animation is completed, I'll see a badge pop up that I got something cool.

Although, I did focus a lot on the star challenges on Super Mario Galaxy, so I guess I did fall for it. The additional stars just allowed me to access harder content, as I recall.

[Seprix]

In this case I agree with Awaclus. I don't even think the starwars movies qualify as 'mediocre'.

Heresy! HERESY! (The prequels are awful though)

[Haddock]

There's also this at the beginning of Azkaban:

They were there, both of them, sitting outside Florean Fortescue’s Ice Cream Parlor — Ron looking incredibly freckly, Hermione very brown, both waving frantically at him.

I don't have a problem with a black Hermione. At all.

But I wanted to chime in to say that this argument doesn't work so much.
If I remember rightly this quote is from immediately after Hermione has been on holiday somewhere beachy.  It's a comment on her tan.  So really it supports the idea that she's canonically white.  Otherwise commenting on her tan wouldn't really be a thing.

I think people have argued that if she were just tanned, it would have said "tanned" instead of "brown".  But my point was more that we shouldn't read too much into the colours in this quotation or the other.  "White" in context was likely just a reference to Hermione's emotional state.

This might actually be a cross Atlantic issue. Am i right in saying you're American?
In my experience, brits use "brown" to describe tan on white people more often/naturally than "tanned".

[Awaclus]

Heresy! HERESY! (The prequels are awful though)

In other words, you agree that, on average, it is a pretty mediocre series?

[Seprix]

Heresy! HERESY! (The prequels are awful though)

In other words, you agree that, on average, it is a pretty mediocre series?

No. Episode 4 is incredible, Episode 5 is one of the best movies of all time, Episode 6 is the worst of the original trilogy but still good. And because of the prequels, we got Mr Plinkett. Episode 7 is arguably better than 6, and it's "basically" Episode 4 all over again.

[silverspawn]

In this case I agree with Awaclus. I don't even think the starwars movies qualify as 'mediocre'.

Heresy! HERESY! (The prequels are awful though)

No man, 2 > 5 > 3 > 4 > 6 > 1; the second of the prequels is the only movie worth watching.

[Seprix]

In this case I agree with Awaclus. I don't even think the starwars movies qualify as 'mediocre'.

Heresy! HERESY! (The prequels are awful though)

No man, 2 > 5 > 3 > 4 > 6 > 1; the second of the prequels is the only movie worth watching.

!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

That's arguably the WORST Star Wars movie!

[eHalcyon]

This might actually be a cross Atlantic issue. Am i right in saying you're American?
In my experience, brits use "brown" to describe tan on white people more often/naturally than "tanned".

Oh, that could be it.  I'm Canadian, but that's still the same side of the Atlantic.

[silverspawn]

In this case I agree with Awaclus. I don't even think the starwars movies qualify as 'mediocre'.

Heresy! HERESY! (The prequels are awful though)

No man, 2 > 5 > 3 > 4 > 6 > 1; the second of the prequels is the only movie worth watching.

!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

That's arguably the WORST Star Wars movie!

I remember having had this discussion in the past with Teproc, but he wasn't able to tell me what is bad about it.

It has a really good plot, not generic, untypical, even, with the good side having the larger army and the main characters not being the heroes at the end; It has cool locations; It takes itself seriously, for the most part (the chase in the beginning sucks and the comic relief in the end with C-3PO is the worst part about it); it does not require opponents to be utterly incompetent to work, or even the good side having extraordinary amounts of luck; it's not predictable; it sells the universe believably; it has no stupid over the top scenes like 3 and 4 and 6.

In other words, it's a good movie! Unlike 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7

[Seprix]

In this case I agree with Awaclus. I don't even think the starwars movies qualify as 'mediocre'.

Heresy! HERESY! (The prequels are awful though)

No man, 2 > 5 > 3 > 4 > 6 > 1; the second of the prequels is the only movie worth watching.

!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

That's arguably the WORST Star Wars movie!

I remember having had this discussion in the past with Teproc, but he wasn't able to tell me what is bad about it.

It has a really good plot, not generic, untypical, even, with the good side having the larger army and the main characters not being the heroes at the end; It has cool locations; It takes itself seriously, for the most part (the chase in the beginning sucks and the comic relief in the end with C-3PO is the worst part about it); it does not require opponents to be utterly incompetent to work, or even the good side having extraordinary amounts of luck; it's not predictable; it sells the universe believably; it has no stupid over the top scenes like 3 and 4 and 6.

In other words, it's a good movie! Unlike 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7

You confuse me.

[Kirian]

I know it's a bit weird that the series "starts" with Episode 4, and I'm sure there are plenty of stories they could tell prior to New Hope, but I think it's a bit silly to be ranking movies that haven't been made yet, right?

[Accatitippi]

In this case I agree with Awaclus. I don't even think the starwars movies qualify as 'mediocre'.

Heresy! HERESY! (The prequels are awful though)

No man, 2 > 5 > 3 > 4 > 6 > 1; the second of the prequels is the only movie worth watching.

!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

That's arguably the WORST Star Wars movie!

I remember having had this discussion in the past with Teproc, but he wasn't able to tell me what is bad about it.

It has a really good plot, not generic, untypical, even, with the good side having the larger army and the main characters not being the heroes at the end; It has cool locations; It takes itself seriously, for the most part (the chase in the beginning sucks and the comic relief in the end with C-3PO is the worst part about it); it does not require opponents to be utterly incompetent to work, or even the good side having extraordinary amounts of luck; it's not predictable; it sells the universe believably; it has no stupid over the top scenes like 3 and 4 and 6.

In other words, it's a good movie! Unlike 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7

You confuse me.

Careful, or you'll hit yourself in your confusion.

[silverspawn]

I know it's a bit weird that the series "starts" with Episode 4, and I'm sure there are plenty of stories they could tell prior to New Hope, but I think it's a bit silly to be ranking movies that haven't been made yet, right?

who ranked movies that haven't been made yet?

[Seprix]

Careful, or you'll hit yourself in your confusion.

I know it's a bit weird that the series "starts" with Episode 4, and I'm sure there are plenty of stories they could tell prior to New Hope, but I think it's a bit silly to be ranking movies that haven't been made yet, right?

who ranked movies that haven't been made yet?

I mean, I'm pretty excited about Rogue One...

[Titandrake]

I know it's a bit weird that the series "starts" with Episode 4, and I'm sure there are plenty of stories they could tell prior to New Hope, but I think it's a bit silly to be ranking movies that haven't been made yet, right?

who ranked movies that haven't been made yet?

Ooo, ooo, I get to explain a joke to make it funnier!

Kirian is saying that Star Wars starts on Episode 4, and there's lots of potential for stories before A New Hope, but no prequels have been made. Of course, Kirian knows the prequels 1,2,3 have all been made. He's pretending they don't exist to explain how much he would rather they didn't.

[silverspawn]

ehh. I see. That would be a much better joke if the prequels weren't better than the originals.

[Seprix]

ehh. I see. That would be a much better joke if the prequels weren't better than the originals.

You either watched the movies when you were 2, or you're trolling. You have to be trolling.

[silverspawn]

ehh. I see. That would be a much better joke if the prequels weren't better than the originals.

You either watched the movies when you were 2, or you're trolling. You have to be trolling.

I rewatched them all recently.

Actually, I have a spreadsheet where I keep track of all movies that I watch and rank them from 1 to 100. Let me look up my scores-- everything above 50 is worth watching.

Attack of the Clones: 68
Epire Strikes Back: 48
Revenge of the Sith: 31
Return of the Jedi: 30
A New Hope: 25
The Phantom Menace: 19

[silverspawn]

Sorry man, they're just not good movies, and for some reason everyone who talks about how amazing they are never explains me what is so good about them.

[Kirian]

I mean, it's all right to be that guy who goes against the prevailing consensus about whether or not a movie is good.  But that doesn't mean there's no consensus, and the consensus doesn't favor those three non-existent movies:

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/franchise/star-wars-saga/

[Seprix]

Sorry man, they're just not good movies, and for some reason everyone who talks about how amazing they are never explains me what is so good about them.

What is so bad about Episode 4, 5, and 6? What happens in the movies?

[silverspawn]

I mean, it's all right to be that guy who goes against the prevailing consensus about whether or not a movie is good.  But that doesn't mean there's no consensus, and the consensus doesn't favor those three non-existent movies:

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/franchise/star-wars-saga/

err  well the consensus is not a good argument when it comes to art.

Sorry man, they're just not good movies, and for some reason everyone who talks about how amazing they are never explains me what is so good about them.

What is so bad about Episode 4, 5, and 6? What happens in the movies?

Four:
- It looks like crap, which is unfortunate for a Movie set in space
- It's boring over long stretches
- None of the characters are particularly likable.
- The entire chase scene is super cringe worthy, as the good guys are essentially invincible; they are being shot at constantly but those shots always miss for no reason at all. that kills all stakes.
- The finale is incredibly cheesy and generic. I really can't understand how anyone can claim that it's a good movie after watching that.

Five:
This is harder to explain. There aren't that many "flaws" with this one, at least not compared to the above, the problem here is more that the entire movie is unpleasant to look at. The snow planet thing, then the whole escape in the airship... with unlikable characters... who cares... then there's the yoda parts which are easily the best part of the movie, but the planet is likewise ugly, muddy, swampy, foggy.. bllp...f

Then they find shelter but get betrayed five minutes later. And C-3PO gets split in parts and the main guy loses his hand... --like, why watch this? Where's the appeal?


Six:
Okay, the way I remember this one, it was split in two parts

#1 The scene were Luke rescues the other guy. Well, this scene is pretty obviously dumb, because it paints Luke as having some sort of grand plan, but he... doesn't. He just fights, and has plot invincibility again; if this was GoT, he'd die in three seconds.

There are also these things where if you are thrown inside you suffer for 1000 years while you're being digested, and they happily throw tons of other guys in (and a bunch of good guys narrowly avoid it). ttsspfdsfshfksjkghfdkjghj

And why is he even doing this? Don't they have the entire rebellion on their side? Why risk your life in such an asinine way?

#2 The attack on Death Star 2.0

I mean... a forest species with slingshots beat an army of futuristic clone warriors with laser weapons... ... ... ... ... also the fighting is presented as a joke.

[Darth Vader]

You all should be lucky the Emperor isn't on these forums, because he is not as forgiving as I am.

[Kirian]

I mean, it's all right to be that guy who goes against the prevailing consensus about whether or not a movie is good.  But that doesn't mean there's no consensus, and the consensus doesn't favor those three non-existent movies:

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/franchise/star-wars-saga/

err  well the consensus is not a good argument when it comes to art.

Well, it's an argument that there is a consensus, and that you are standing against it.  There's nothing wrong with disagreeing with the consensus position in art, of course, unlike in science.  In both cases, though, you need to present evidence to bolster your case if you want your argument not to be ignored--in science, obviously the evidence must be overwhelming, whereas in art it's incredibly subjective.

But even in art, it's tricky to go against the consensus.  If you try to tell me that you think Beethoven's 1st Symphony is superior to his 9th, or that the Pieta is artistically inferior to the death masks of the Egyptians, that's going to be a really, really hard sell.

[silverspawn]

Fair enough, although I look at it more at that there's no such thing as right or wrong anyway when it comes to taste, so all we can do is explain why we feel what we feel regardless of how many other people agree.

[Awaclus]

But even in art, it's tricky to go against the consensus.  If you try to tell me that you think Beethoven's 1st Symphony is superior to his 9th, or that the Pieta is artistically inferior to the death masks of the Egyptians, that's going to be a really, really hard sell.

Well, it's not exactly a major achievement to be superior to Beethoven's 9th symphony.

[Seprix]

But even in art, it's tricky to go against the consensus.  If you try to tell me that you think Beethoven's 1st Symphony is superior to his 9th, or that the Pieta is artistically inferior to the death masks of the Egyptians, that's going to be a really, really hard sell.

Well, it's not exactly a major achievement to be superior to Beethoven's 9th symphony.

Oh, Awaclus.

[silverspawn]

I like Beethoven's 9th Symphony a lot. Tied for my favorite classical piece with the 4 seasons from Vivaldi.

[silverspawn]

Unrelated, I just finished rewatching Shutter Island. OH MY GOD that movie is so amazing **_** Can we at least agree on that one?

[Seprix]

Unrelated, I just finished rewatching Shutter Island. OH MY GOD that movie is so amazing **_** Can we at least agree on that one?

An island for exclusively selling outside window covers?

[Awaclus]

I like Beethoven's 9th Symphony a lot. Tied for my favorite classical piece with the 4 seasons from Vivaldi.

Really? I mean, Vivaldi's 4 seasons is good, but Beethoven's 9th symphony is pretty much on-par with modern supermainstream pop music.

[eHalcyon]

I like Beethoven's 9th Symphony a lot. Tied for my favorite classical piece with the 4 seasons from Vivaldi.

Really? I mean, Vivaldi's 4 seasons is good, but Beethoven's 9th symphony is pretty much on-par with modern supermainstream pop music.

I had no idea you thought so highly of mainstream pop.

[silverspawn]

Unrelated, I just finished rewatching Shutter Island. OH MY GOD that movie is so amazing **_** Can we at least agree on that one?

An island for exclusively selling outside window covers?

If you have not seen that movie, you need to watch it.

[Awaclus]

I like Beethoven's 9th Symphony a lot. Tied for my favorite classical piece with the 4 seasons from Vivaldi.

Really? I mean, Vivaldi's 4 seasons is good, but Beethoven's 9th symphony is pretty much on-par with modern supermainstream pop music.

I had no idea you thought so highly of mainstream pop.

Well, I do. Where "so" = "not very".

[silverspawn]

Okay, someone beside me must have seen Shutter Island. I thought that movie was really well known. Awaclus? eH?

[Seprix]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/03/14/proposed-washington-stadium-has-a-moat/

Washington revealed their new stadium plans today.

[pacovf]

Okay, someone beside me must have seen Shutter Island. I thought that movie was really well known. Awaclus? eH?

I've watched, and you probably want to talk about this in the "Movie Buffs" thread. I liked it, but the plot twist wasn't that original.

[Awaclus]

Okay, someone beside me must have seen Shutter Island. I thought that movie was really well known. Awaclus? eH?

I usually watch exclusively animation unless a live action movie has been specifically recommended to me or fans of a certain movie/genre/director/etc that I happen to like. Which hasn't been the case for Shutter Island.

[Kirian]

Unrelated, I just finished rewatching Shutter Island. OH MY GOD that movie is so amazing **_** Can we at least agree on that one?

I have to admit, thrillers just aren't my thing.

I like Beethoven's 9th Symphony a lot. Tied for my favorite classical piece with the 4 seasons from Vivaldi.

Really? I mean, Vivaldi's 4 seasons is good, but Beethoven's 9th symphony is pretty much on-par with modern supermainstream pop music.

I can't tell if you're trolling to mess with me, or if you actually believe that.  Next you'll say that the New World Symphony was pablum for the masses

In particular, the Scherzo/Trio second movement of Beethoven 9 is astonishingly good. 

[silverspawn]

Or you could say that Windows 8 is better than Windows 7.

[Awaclus]

Or you could say that Windows 8 is better than Windows 7.

How is Windows 8.1 not better than Windows 7? It allows for more customization and the technical implementation of how it handles audio is much more sensible.

I can't tell if you're trolling to mess with me, or if you actually believe that.  Next you'll say that the New World Symphony was pablum for the masses

In particular, the Scherzo/Trio second movement of Beethoven 9 is astonishingly good. 

Beethoven was groundbreaking at the time and it's great that he more or less came up with some concepts that inspired later composers to use them to a much better effect, but he himself just wasn't really very good. I think the New World Symphony is pretty good, but it doesn't leave as big of an impact as many other works do and honestly I've forgotten the vast majority of what happens in it.

[schadd]

i think that silverspawn has laid out his whatever quite nicely with respect to star wars, regardless of my stance on the movies

i think the only time you can find a good classical song is when you find a kinda dumb mozart compilation thing on spotify whilst looking for a song that you had to analyse in high school music theory

[Awaclus]

i think that silverspawn has laid out his whatever quite nicely with respect to star wars, regardless of my stance on the movies

i think the only time you can find a good classical song is when you find a kinda dumb mozart compilation thing on spotify whilst looking for a song that you had to analyse in high school music theory

We never had to analyze songs in music theory in HS. We did that in music listening instead.

[ashersky]

Okay, someone beside me must have seen Shutter Island. I thought that movie was really well known. Awaclus? eH?

I avoid Leo movies as much as possible.

Except The Beach.  That movie was the bomb.

[pedroluchini]

I watched Shutter Island around the same time I watched Inception. I started to wonder whether Leonardo-DiCaprio-plays-a-mentally-unbalanced-man-who-can't-get-over-the-death-of-his-wife was a new cinematic genre I was unaware of.

[Lekkit]

Why is it so hard to preorder Fire Emblem Fates Collector's Edition in Sweden?

[ashersky]

So "flower of mustard" is a chip flavor.

[Tables]

Why is it so hard to preorder Fire Emblem Fates Collector's Edition in Sweden?

I'm considering getting the collector's edition of Fates here in the UK. I mean right now I'm still completely occupied with Bravely Second, which personally was the JRPG I was more looking forward to this year (and it delivered) despite being a huge FE fan, but... yeah, once it hits April I'm gonna be wanting to get some Fire Emblem, and need to decide which version I want to get - collector's edition, or buy one and get the other two digitially.

[Lekkit]

I mainly play FE for the strategy, rather than RPG parts. Which is one of the reasons why I dind't think SD was as bad as a lot of others seem to. That said, it was not a great game.

On a completely different note. I had no idea I needed this in my life.

[Tables]

Yeah, I generally like RPGs for the strategy side of things. I couldn't care less for who to make my waifbando or husbu in Awakening, just go for whoever seems to work best strategically. No, I'm not doing random encounters, even on Lunatic, give me that proper strategy experience. It's part of why I like RPGs you can get through without grinding, maximum challenge and interest.

[ashersky]

Trampled by Turtles is my new third favorite band.

[GendoIkari]

I mainly play FE for the strategy, rather than RPG parts. Which is one of the reasons why I dind't think SD was as bad as a lot of others seem to. That said, it was not a great game.

On a completely different note. I had no idea I needed this in my life.

Ha, I just stumbled upon that channel myself last night. The folding a piece of paper in half 7 times is epic.

[iguanaiguana]

Three randenim studds!! Don't u darw call me odd topic!!!

[Axxle]

Three randenim studds!! Don't u darw call me odd topic!!!

Here you go: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=3227.660

[pacovf]

I kind of want to hang out with drunk iguana iguana now.

[Ichimaru Gin]

So. I'm basically being accused of plagiarism in my programming class right now. Another student and I had contacted the department chair with some concerns about how our professor was teaching the class. I won't go into the specifics, but we were informed that there were at least several other groups that shared similar concerns. And...now my grading rubric for an assignment says that my solution was "identical" to another student's, so I lose 25%.

Needless to say I'm pretty stressed about this.

[Accatitippi]

So. I'm basically being accused of plagiarism in my programming class right now. Another student and I had contacted the department chair with some concerns about how our professor was teaching the class. I won't go into the specifics, but we were informed that there were at least several other groups that shared similar concerns. And...now my grading rubric for an assignment says that my solution was "identical" to another student's, so I lose 25%.

Needless to say I'm pretty stressed about this.

Is there a superior body you can appeal to to evaluate your case? Many universities here have specific anti-plagiarism boards that make the decision about what is plagiarism and what isn't, and about what to do about each case.
Or even just a generic grading complaint system.
Is the assignment a written essay or practical work? In case of a written essay it should be fairly easy to defend your case, unless you've been really unlucky. If it's a piece of program you might make the case that, while there are many degrees of freedom in making a good work, they are not different or varied enough to guarantee that each student will provide a completely unique solution, in particular since you've all been taught at the same establishment. It's a bit like accusing somebody of plagiarism over the way they solved an equation.
Anyhow, it really sucks, I've been in a similar situation (which resolved in the best way possible) and I know how it feels. :/

[Kirian]

So. I'm basically being accused of plagiarism in my programming class right now. Another student and I had contacted the department chair with some concerns about how our professor was teaching the class. I won't go into the specifics, but we were informed that there were at least several other groups that shared similar concerns. And...now my grading rubric for an assignment says that my solution was "identical" to another student's, so I lose 25%.

Needless to say I'm pretty stressed about this.

Obviously I don't know the proper procedures at your school, so take everything I'm about to say with a grain or two of salt.  This is from my experience as an adjunct instructor at three separate universities/colleges, and five years in high schools.

First, if your prof says your solution was identical to another student's, he should be able to provide proof.  I spent many hours making copies of identical papers, and many more hours explaining to students, department chairs, and, at the high school level, parents**.  If he has no proof and still will not change your grade back, this is a separate complaint to take to the department chair.

Second, if the department chair hasn't been as responsive as you would like to your previous complaints, you need to go further up the chain of command, as it were.  It sounds like your concerns were... placated... and possibly not taken seriously--it's hard to say.  Certainly the department chair should respond to your complaint about the "identical" charge if the prof has no copies and no evidence.

At most universities, the next step is to contact the dean of the college.  To go to that level, you need to make sure everything that has happened so far is written out, ideally typed as though it were a lab report or the like.  Your university may have a formal complaint system that you will need to navigate, so please check your student handbook to be certain you're following the proper procedures.

**The worst one was a year and a half ago, when a student turned in a lab report that was literally identical to a report from a previous year's student.  Down to data that matched what the previous year's student had measured, as opposed to what his group had measured.  In that class, the students turned their work in electronically, so it was impressively easy to catch and prove.  Amusingly, this is a student who I had taught nine years earlier at the high school level... and had behavior and general academic problems at that time.  It was sad to see that nine years, including seven in adulthood, had failed to significantly change his attitude toward schooling.  (He received a zero for the lab and ultimately failed.)

[Ichimaru Gin]

So. I'm basically being accused of plagiarism in my programming class right now. Another student and I had contacted the department chair with some concerns about how our professor was teaching the class. I won't go into the specifics, but we were informed that there were at least several other groups that shared similar concerns. And...now my grading rubric for an assignment says that my solution was "identical" to another student's, so I lose 25%.

Needless to say I'm pretty stressed about this.

Is there a superior body you can appeal to to evaluate your case? Many universities here have specific anti-plagiarism boards that make the decision about what is plagiarism and what isn't, and about what to do about each case.
Or even just a generic grading complaint system.
Is the assignment a written essay or practical work? In case of a written essay it should be fairly easy to defend your case, unless you've been really unlucky. If it's a piece of program you might make the case that, while there are many degrees of freedom in making a good work, they are not different or varied enough to guarantee that each student will provide a completely unique solution, in particular since you've all been taught at the same establishment. It's a bit like accusing somebody of plagiarism over the way they solved an equation.
Anyhow, it really sucks, I've been in a similar situation (which resolved in the best way possible) and I know how it feels. :/

I have been in contact with the department chair for a few weeks regarding earlier concerns about how the instructor was handling the class. I think the case about there not being sufficient different ways to solve the problem (it wasn't terribly complex) sounds like my best course of action if it isn't worked out some other way.

The strange thing is that that he only penalized my grade and didn't contact me otherwise or give any indication that there would be escalation of the issue or anything. I would also like to know who the other student in the class he said my solution was identical to. As I really only have one friend in the course I talk with regularly.

So. I'm basically being accused of plagiarism in my programming class right now. Another student and I had contacted the department chair with some concerns about how our professor was teaching the class. I won't go into the specifics, but we were informed that there were at least several other groups that shared similar concerns. And...now my grading rubric for an assignment says that my solution was "identical" to another student's, so I lose 25%.

Needless to say I'm pretty stressed about this.

Obviously I don't know the proper procedures at your school, so take everything I'm about to say with a grain or two of salt.  This is from my experience as an adjunct instructor at three separate universities/colleges, and five years in high schools.

First, if your prof says your solution was identical to another student's, he should be able to provide proof.  I spent many hours making copies of identical papers, and many more hours explaining to students, department chairs, and, at the high school level, parents**.  If he has no proof and still will not change your grade back, this is a separate complaint to take to the department chair.

Second, if the department chair hasn't been as responsive as you would like to your previous complaints, you need to go further up the chain of command, as it were.  It sounds like your concerns were... placated... and possibly not taken seriously--it's hard to say.  Certainly the department chair should respond to your complaint about the "identical" charge if the prof has no copies and no evidence.

At most universities, the next step is to contact the dean of the college.  To go to that level, you need to make sure everything that has happened so far is written out, ideally typed as though it were a lab report or the like.  Your university may have a formal complaint system that you will need to navigate, so please check your student handbook to be certain you're following the proper procedures.

**The worst one was a year and a half ago, when a student turned in a lab report that was literally identical to a report from a previous year's student.  Down to data that matched what the previous year's student had measured, as opposed to what his group had measured.  In that class, the students turned their work in electronically, so it was impressively easy to catch and prove.  Amusingly, this is a student who I had taught nine years earlier at the high school level... and had behavior and general academic problems at that time.  It was sad to see that nine years, including seven in adulthood, had failed to significantly change his attitude toward schooling.  (He received a zero for the lab and ultimately failed.)

I agree that he should have to provide proof. I sent the department chair an email about this before I will bring it up with him, since she seemed very receptive to the complaints that other students and I had several weeks ago. The response to our complaints was for them (some CS faculty and maybe the chair) to have a meeting with the professor discussing things that he needed to change--some major ones were him taking a significant amount of time to grade assignments (last semester with this professor, I turned in an assignment on the third week of class and did not receive it back until after finals), and his lecture not reflecting the material present on assignments and exams. She has asked me to update her about how the class is going since they had the meeting with him.

Another key piece of information is that this professor was only hired last semester. We were informed by the department chair that they have received numerous complaints about him. I am almost certain he doesn't have anything like tenure.

I just sent the chair an email last night when I found out about this, so I'll probably have to wait until Monday to see what she says.

[1]

Random stuff seems like a good place to post this-
Please help! I'm relatively new to Dominion but I want to get better than my friends so I came here. Sadly, this is also a first my first time on a forum, so navigation has proved to be quite the challenge.

Is there anywhere I can go to get my bearings?

[A Drowned Kernel]

Random stuff seems like a good place to post this-
Please help! I'm relatively new to Dominion but I want to get better than my friends so I came here. Sadly, this is also a first my first time on a forum, so navigation has proved to be quite the challenge.

Is there anywhere I can go to get my bearings?

Welcome!

I'm not sure what your problems with navigation are, but starting at the Home Page and then choosing what looks like the right subforum is probably a good way to start. It sound like Dominion Articles or Dominion General Discussion is what you're interested in. If someone has a link to that "five deck types" article handy this guy could probably use it.

(Also, have you check out The Necro Wars?)

[Seprix]

Random stuff seems like a good place to post this-
Please help! I'm relatively new to Dominion but I want to get better than my friends so I came here. Sadly, this is also a first my first time on a forum, so navigation has proved to be quite the challenge.

Is there anywhere I can go to get my bearings?

Welcome to Dominion Forums! If you just flat out play the game, you'll pick up little things as you go along. Play long enough, you might even become 1.

[Accatitippi]

Random stuff seems like a good place to post this-
Please help! I'm relatively new to Dominion but I want to get better than my friends so I came here. Sadly, this is also a first my first time on a forum, so navigation has proved to be quite the challenge.

Is there anywhere I can go to get my bearings?

Welcome! 
Don't worry, somebody will direct you to the Forum games shortly.

[Tables]

Random stuff seems like a good place to post this-
Please help! I'm relatively new to Dominion but I want to get better than my friends so I came here. Sadly, this is also a first my first time on a forum, so navigation has proved to be quite the challenge.

Is there anywhere I can go to get my bearings?

Welcome! 
Don't worry, somebody will direct you to the Forum games shortly.

Just to be clear, this is an inside joke on this forum. This forum has many inside jokes. The joke here is that new people get frequently suggested to check out the forum games, found here, and so Accatitippi is joking about this inevitably happening because you are new here. Another inside joke on this forum is the idea that explaining jokes makes them funnier, and that pointing this out also makes them funnier. I have now explained this joke to you, so it is now funnier, as per the previous sentence.

[1]

Random stuff seems like a good place to post this-
Please help! I'm relatively new to Dominion but I want to get better than my friends so I came here. Sadly, this is also a first my first time on a forum, so navigation has proved to be quite the challenge.

Is there anywhere I can go to get my bearings?

Welcome!

I'm not sure what your problems with navigation are, but starting at the Home Page and then choosing what looks like the right subforum is probably a good way to start. It sound like Dominion Articles or Dominion General Discussion is what you're interested in. If someone has a link to that "five deck types" article handy this guy could probably use it.

(Also, have you check out The Necro Wars?)

I don't know what my problems were either, this all seems simple enough. I'm just not very tech-savvy in general.

Thanks!

[1]

Random stuff seems like a good place to post this-
Please help! I'm relatively new to Dominion but I want to get better than my friends so I came here. Sadly, this is also a first my first time on a forum, so navigation has proved to be quite the challenge.

Is there anywhere I can go to get my bearings?

Welcome! 
Don't worry, somebody will direct you to the Forum games shortly.

Just to be clear, this is an inside joke on this forum. This forum has many inside jokes. The joke here is that new people get frequently suggested to check out the forum games, found here, and so Accatitippi is joking about this inevitably happening because you are new here. Another inside joke on this forum is the idea that explaining jokes makes them funnier, and that pointing this out also makes them funnier. I have now explained this joke to you, so it is now funnier, as per the previous sentence.

If you explain the inside jokes to everyone, how are they inside jokes?

[Lekkit]

They are only jokes here. Kind of.

[Burning Skull]

If you explain the inside jokes to everyone, how are they inside jokes?

What's wrong with explaining the jokes to every 1? There are not so many of them.

[A Drowned Kernel]

If you explain the inside jokes to everyone, how are they inside jokes?

They're inside jokes, it's just very easy to get inside.

[Tables]

Random stuff seems like a good place to post this-
Please help! I'm relatively new to Dominion but I want to get better than my friends so I came here. Sadly, this is also a first my first time on a forum, so navigation has proved to be quite the challenge.

Is there anywhere I can go to get my bearings?

Welcome! 
Don't worry, somebody will direct you to the Forum games shortly.

Just to be clear, this is an inside joke on this forum. This forum has many inside jokes. The joke here is that new people get frequently suggested to check out the forum games, found here, and so Accatitippi is joking about this inevitably happening because you are new here. Another inside joke on this forum is the idea that explaining jokes makes them funnier, and that pointing this out also makes them funnier. I have now explained this joke to you, so it is now funnier, as per the previous sentence.

If you explain the inside jokes to everyone, how are they inside jokes?

Well, a better word would probably have been meme, but inside joke works as well.

[2.71828.....]

If you explain the inside jokes to everyone, how are they inside jokes?

Except....that is the joke. The explanation, that is.

[Polk5440]

So. I'm basically being accused of plagiarism in my programming class right now. Another student and I had contacted the department chair with some concerns about how our professor was teaching the class. I won't go into the specifics, but we were informed that there were at least several other groups that shared similar concerns. And...now my grading rubric for an assignment says that my solution was "identical" to another student's, so I lose 25%.

Needless to say I'm pretty stressed about this.

Is there a superior body you can appeal to to evaluate your case? Many universities here have specific anti-plagiarism boards that make the decision about what is plagiarism and what isn't, and about what to do about each case.

Kirian's advice is spot on.

I want to double up on Accatitippi's point here. It's critically important to talk to the relevant anti-plagiarism board (if it exists) or a dean of students responsible for handling plagiarism/honor code violations ASAP, especially if you suspect the professor is "punishing" you for complaining to the department head about him/the class. The board/dean is there to protect students.

Two anecdotes for you:

1) At my college, an Integrity Board was established partly because of confusion among faculty about plagiarism/cheating and as a protection for students. Many professors were against creating an Integrity Board because they wanted to retain full control and authority over their classes. This included the ability to fail students or ignore indiscretions at will. The most ridiculous case came about with a physics professor who failed his ENTIRE lab because of plagiarism. What had happened was that he said students could work together, so lab groups collected data together and wrote joint papers together. The TA approved of this because that was the TA's interpretation of the professor's instructions, as well. What the professor actually meant was that people could help each other set up the experiment and share equipment. He was expecting different data from each individual (everyone takes individual measurements) and different reports. This was clearly a case of the professor not clearly communicating expectations. Literally everyone involved interpreted the instructions in the same (evidently incorrect) way and the professor refused to admit a failure of communication. A dean of students had to step in and clear things up. Shortly after, the Integrity Board was approved for the college.

2) Also at my college, for the intro programming class, the professor set strict standards on what level of working together was allowed. He used third party software to evaluate student code to detect whether people were collaborating on coding details rather than high level problem solving. If your professor is the same, you could run into problems if, for instance, your code is identical to your groups' code (with minor exceptions like variable names), different from all other students' code, and your professors' expectations were clear.

[liopoil]

In my high school physics class, copying is rampant. The teacher knows too, or at least is pretty sure, but feels that he cannot do anything about it. It's really quite sad. He feels that administration might not back him up and that the students would protest (he is right about the latter, not sure on the former). It has really made it hard for me to take the class seriously now.

Ichi's story and ones like it from the teachers' perspective aren't pretty either

[eHalcyon]

In my high school physics class, copying is rampant. The teacher knows too, or at least is pretty sure, but feels that he cannot do anything about it. It's really quite sad. He feels that administration might not back him up and that the students would protest (he is right about the latter, not sure on the former). It has really made it hard for me to take the class seriously now.

Ichi's story and ones like it from the teachers' perspective aren't pretty either

In what way could the students legitimately protest?  Why doesn't he think the admin would back him?

[liopoil]

In my high school physics class, copying is rampant. The teacher knows too, or at least is pretty sure, but feels that he cannot do anything about it. It's really quite sad. He feels that administration might not back him up and that the students would protest (he is right about the latter, not sure on the former). It has really made it hard for me to take the class seriously now.

Ichi's story and ones like it from the teachers' perspective aren't pretty either

In what way could the students legitimately protest?  Why doesn't he think the admin would back him?

Honestly I'm not sure. He doesn't have much rock solid proof, but really I think it isn't too hard to figure out that the lab reports all look a bit similar, he just doesn't look at them that closely. The legitimacy of the protest doesn't matter that much honestly. They'll just hound whoever they need to until they get their grade. That's how high school works. The weird part is even though they are all seniors and by now have been accepted to colleges they still care about their grades for some reason.

Administration doesn't like dealing with potential angry parents and they also don't like failing students. If grades are a bit inflated who cares really.

I guess I should say that I go to one of those 'college prep' schools.

[Kirian]

Administration doesn't like dealing with potential angry parents and they also don't like failing students. If grades are a bit inflated who cares really.

I once lost a teaching job mid-year because I refused to inflate my grades.

[2.71828.....]

Administration doesn't like dealing with potential angry parents and they also don't like failing students. If grades are a bit inflated who cares really.

I once lost a teaching job mid-year because I refused to inflate my grades.

+1 for being awesome, not because you lost the job

[liopoil]

Administration doesn't like dealing with potential angry parents and they also don't like failing students. If grades are a bit inflated who cares really.

I once lost a teaching job mid-year because I refused to inflate my grades.

A less extreme version of this may be what he is afraid of. How much grades are inflated varies wildly from class to class for me though, so it does seem like there is some freedom given to teachers on how they grade.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Hey everyone! I really appreciate all the advice.

And I have an interesting update!

I received an email back from the department chair. She said that I should address the situation directly with my professor first, and if I still had concerns to talk to her then. She also made it very clear to me that the professor is not aware of which individuals (or even in which sections) made complaints about him.

So I went to my professor's office hour today and...

I learned that when he said identical, he meant identical. I actually think he's on my side in this one, but basically some other student in the class somehow got a hold of my code and submitted it without any changes whatsoever. I find that kind of ludicrous, but that's the only thing that I could conclude given that he said they were identical, even including the comments.

So, tomorrow after class I will be meeting with my instructor and this other student to talk about this. I am positive that I was the first one to contact my professor, and in person as well. We talked about different possibilities that someone might have had an opportunity to steal my code, but I really couldn't think of anything. I never leave my computer or flashdrive unattended, and I do most of my coding at home.

Worst comes to worst, I also have maybe 3-4 "prototype" files on my flashdrive and computer which I have been very careful not to open given that they are dated well before the assignment's due date and could possibly be used as proof.

[Watno]

I know someone who had people literally photocopy his solution to something and hand it in, including his name on them.

[Axxle]

I know someone who had people literally photocopy his solution to something and hand it in, including his name on them.

That happened in my IB calc class senior year, they even used the school library to do it.

[jsh357]

Dealing with these types of students is one of the things I'm least looking forward to... what a lousy situation for everyone involved.

[Seprix]

Teaching sounds like lots of fun sometimes as a job, something I'd like to do.. And then I hear about all this stuff. Eh...

[Axxle]

Ive always thought about tutoring. probably most of the good things about teaching without as much of the bad

[scott_pilgrim]

Hey everyone! I really appreciate all the advice.

And I have an interesting update!

I received an email back from the department chair. She said that I should address the situation directly with my professor first, and if I still had concerns to talk to her then. She also made it very clear to me that the professor is not aware of which individuals (or even in which sections) made complaints about him.

So I went to my professor's office hour today and...

I learned that when he said identical, he meant identical. I actually think he's on my side in this one, but basically some other student in the class somehow got a hold of my code and submitted it without any changes whatsoever. I find that kind of ludicrous, but that's the only thing that I could conclude given that he said they were identical, even including the comments.

So, tomorrow after class I will be meeting with my instructor and this other student to talk about this. I am positive that I was the first one to contact my professor, and in person as well. We talked about different possibilities that someone might have had an opportunity to steal my code, but I really couldn't think of anything. I never leave my computer or flashdrive unattended, and I do most of my coding at home.

Worst comes to worst, I also have maybe 3-4 "prototype" files on my flashdrive and computer which I have been very careful not to open given that they are dated well before the assignment's due date and could possibly be used as proof.

Has the other student confirmed that it was his submission yet?  He may see it and say "no that's not what I submitted", like there was just some weird bug that copied your submission onto his name or something.  Otherwise it's a counterclaim situation, if you get lynched today then he'll be confirmed scum tomorrow.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Haha. I actually did think a lot about Mafia when I was explaining myself to my professor. I think it's prepared me very well for arguing my innocence.

[Ichimaru Gin]

And of course I'm town...

[Seprix]

And of course I'm town...

No, you're Ichimaru Gin.

*ba-dum chhhhhhhhh*

[Ichimaru Gin]

And of course I'm town...

No, you're Ichimaru Gin.

*ba-dum chhhhhhhhh*

Don't ever leave me again 

[silverspawn]

I also got in trouble because someone in my group copied an answer. I'll have to do one more subject because of it next semester. Pretty frustrating.

[Seprix]

And of course I'm town...

No, you're Ichimaru Gin.

*ba-dum chhhhhhhhh*

Don't ever leave me again 

Don't worry, my precious little Ichimaru Gin. I will forever make horrible puns within earshot.

[Ichimaru Gin]

ok

[Seprix]

ok

You're taking this really well.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Ok. It's official. Seprix is my dishonest role model.

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14981.msg580059#msg580059

[Ichimaru Gin]

I can't believe it. I swear I couldn't make this stuff up even if I wanted to.

My professor just emailed me, and it turns out there was a file mixup and there were no identical assignments.
I feel kinda bad for my professor now 

[Axxle]

Wow, blaming mod error?

[Ichimaru Gin]

Wow, blaming mod error?

I'm dying.

I love this place so much. It's very special.

[Kuildeous]

I'm glad the situation was resolved. File mix-ups can happen, especially if there isn't a clear and consistent way of naming the files.

If I ever take a programming course for a grade, I'd have to make it a point to declare all my variables in distinctly unique ways to prove the program is mine.

Code: [Select]

var strWhatsYourNameBiatch

[Polk5440]

I feel kinda bad for my professor now 

Don't feel too bad.

I am glad this was resolved quickly, though.

[jsh357]

I feel kinda bad for my professor now 

Don't feel too bad.

I am glad this was resolved quickly, though.

Definitely don't feel bad about it. Plagiarism is serious, but accusations of plagiarism are equally serious. He should have double and triple checked that the assignments were identical before accusing anybody.

[Seprix]

I have Street Fighter V now. Never played it, so I'll obviously suck. But I'm pretty good at Smash Bros, so I hope I can adjust.

[LastFootnote]

Definitely don't feel bad about it. Plagiarism is serious, but accusations of plagiarism are equally serious. He should have double and triple checked that the assignments were identical before accusing anybody.

I have Street Fighter V now. Never played it, so I'll obviously suck. But I'm pretty good at Smash Bros, so I hope I can adjust.

Sometimes I forget which thread this is, and then non sequiturs like these really throw me.

[Awaclus]

I have Street Fighter V now. Never played it, so It'll obviously suck.

I fixed your typo for you.

[Seprix]

Definitely don't feel bad about it. Plagiarism is serious, but accusations of plagiarism are equally serious. He should have double and triple checked that the assignments were identical before accusing anybody.

I have Street Fighter V now. Never played it, so I'll obviously suck. But I'm pretty good at Smash Bros, so I hope I can adjust.

Sometimes I forget which thread this is, and then non sequiturs like these really throw me.

Don't worry, I won't plagiarize my opponent's moves.

[Accatitippi]

Anybody has any thoughts about Super Smash Bros for WiiU?
My group of friends casually played SSBB before the disc broke (long and sad story -.-'), and we're idly considering either having somebody buy a Wii U, buying a new SSBB, or finding a "free" solution to the SSBB problem.

That, Just Dance and Mario Kart are virtually the only stuff we play on the Wii, so I'm not sure we'd actually buy a new console even if SSB for WiiU is amazing.

[Chris is me]

Anybody has any thoughts about Super Smash Bros for WiiU?
My group of friends casually played SSBB before the disc broke (long and sad story -.-'), and we're idly considering either having somebody buy a Wii U, buying a new SSBB, or finding a "free" solution to the SSBB problem.

That, Just Dance and Mario Kart are virtually the only stuff we play on the Wii, so I'm not sure we'd actually buy a new console even if SSB for WiiU is amazing.

I actually kind of liked Brawl so I'm uniquely qualified to answer this versus Melee purists.

SSB4 is strictly better than Brawl. Not even close. Not once since I have bought 4 have I even thought about playing Brawl. It's a very well balanced (for Smash) and very fun fighting game. It is worth getting a Wii U for (though also pick up Mario Kart 8 and 3D World, two of the best games in their respective serieses)

[Seprix]

Anybody has any thoughts about Super Smash Bros for WiiU?
My group of friends casually played SSBB before the disc broke (long and sad story -.-'), and we're idly considering either having somebody buy a Wii U, buying a new SSBB, or finding a "free" solution to the SSBB problem.

That, Just Dance and Mario Kart are virtually the only stuff we play on the Wii, so I'm not sure we'd actually buy a new console even if SSB for WiiU is amazing.

I actually kind of liked Brawl so I'm uniquely qualified to answer this versus Melee purists.

SSB4 is strictly better than Brawl. Not even close. Not once since I have bought 4 have I even thought about playing Brawl. It's a very well balanced (for Smash) and very fun fighting game. It is worth getting a Wii U for (though also pick up Mario Kart 8 and 3D World, two of the best games in their respective serieses)

If I had a Wii U, SSB4 would be my first buy. Melee is accidentally deep (and is a bit deeper than SSB4) but SSB4 is just clearly a better game for me than Melee.

[LastFootnote]

Anybody has any thoughts about Super Smash Bros for WiiU?
My group of friends casually played SSBB before the disc broke (long and sad story -.-'), and we're idly considering either having somebody buy a Wii U, buying a new SSBB, or finding a "free" solution to the SSBB problem.

That, Just Dance and Mario Kart are virtually the only stuff we play on the Wii, so I'm not sure we'd actually buy a new console even if SSB for WiiU is amazing.

I was going to suggest Splatoon and Super Mario Maker, but based on your list of most-played Wii games, it sounds like you're looking more for couch multiplayer, which neither of those games offers.

Speaking of IRL multiplayer, did anybody else play Pac-Man Vs. on the GameCube? Man that was a fun game.

[Chris is me]

Anybody has any thoughts about Super Smash Bros for WiiU?
My group of friends casually played SSBB before the disc broke (long and sad story -.-'), and we're idly considering either having somebody buy a Wii U, buying a new SSBB, or finding a "free" solution to the SSBB problem.

That, Just Dance and Mario Kart are virtually the only stuff we play on the Wii, so I'm not sure we'd actually buy a new console even if SSB for WiiU is amazing.

I was going to suggest Splatoon and Super Mario Maker, but based on your list of most-played Wii games, it sounds like you're looking more for couch multiplayer, which neither of those games offers.

Speaking of IRL multiplayer, did anybody else play Pac-Man Vs. on the GameCube? Man that was a fun game.

Pac Man VS, along with Four Swords / Advent Children, are the only reason I have kept all my GBAs and GC GBA cables for all these years. It's such a novel concept for a video game, and it's always a blast. It would be SUPER EASY to port this to Wii U, so I hope that happens.

[LastFootnote]

Anybody has any thoughts about Super Smash Bros for WiiU?
My group of friends casually played SSBB before the disc broke (long and sad story -.-'), and we're idly considering either having somebody buy a Wii U, buying a new SSBB, or finding a "free" solution to the SSBB problem.

That, Just Dance and Mario Kart are virtually the only stuff we play on the Wii, so I'm not sure we'd actually buy a new console even if SSB for WiiU is amazing.

I was going to suggest Splatoon and Super Mario Maker, but based on your list of most-played Wii games, it sounds like you're looking more for couch multiplayer, which neither of those games offers.

Speaking of IRL multiplayer, did anybody else play Pac-Man Vs. on the GameCube? Man that was a fun game.

Pac Man VS, along with Four Swords / Advent Children, are the only reason I have kept all my GBAs and GC GBA cables for all these years. It's such a novel concept for a video game, and it's always a blast.

I really wish they'd re-release Pac-Man Vs. on the WiiU. I mean the system seems designed specifically for that game.

[Tables]

Me: "It would be like comparing the number of shark attacks against... the number of planets humans live on. One number might change but the other has always been one."

Girl in class: "Aren't there three planets humans live on? Earth, Mars and the Moon?"

*Slightly later*

Boy in class: "Isn't there another identical earth planet they found somewhere which has copies of all of us on it?"

Admittedly, these are 11 year old kids, but still, they're an average to above average ability group...

[eHalcyon]

Me: "It would be like comparing the number of shark attacks against... the number of planets humans live on. One number might change but the other has always been one."

Girl in class: "Aren't there three planets humans live on? Earth, Mars and the Moon?"

*Slightly later*

Boy in class: "Isn't there another identical earth planet they found somewhere which has copies of all of us on it?"

Admittedly, these are 11 year old kids, but still, they're an average to above average ability group...

Maybe they're messing with you.  Or maybe they know something you don't.

What are you teaching that you used this analogy?

[Tables]

Me: "It would be like comparing the number of shark attacks against... the number of planets humans live on. One number might change but the other has always been one."

Girl in class: "Aren't there three planets humans live on? Earth, Mars and the Moon?"

*Slightly later*

Boy in class: "Isn't there another identical earth planet they found somewhere which has copies of all of us on it?"

Admittedly, these are 11 year old kids, but still, they're an average to above average ability group...

Maybe they're messing with you.  Or maybe they know something you don't.

What are you teaching that you used this analogy?

We were talking about Scatter Graphs. Positive and negative correlation, strong and weak correlation. One kid (who is quite animated) asked what would happen if your points formed a perfect line going straight across or straight up, and that's where I ended up using that analogy. It was the first thing that popped into my head.

(Also obligatory reminder that I'm a teaching assistant not a teacher, so I wasn't really 'teaching' anything, I just happened to pipe up before the actual teacher did in this case)

[LastFootnote]

Me: "It would be like comparing the number of shark attacks against... the number of planets humans live on. One number might change but the other has always been one."

Girl in class: "Aren't there three planets humans live on? Earth, Mars and the Moon?"

*Slightly later*

Boy in class: "Isn't there another identical earth planet they found somewhere which has copies of all of us on it?"

Admittedly, these are 11 year old kids, but still, they're an average to above average ability group...

Man, how many (original series) Star Trek episodes were there where they found identical Earth planets? It was at least one, but I think it was more like three. And I'm not even talking about the alternate universe or whatever, just alternate Earths floating in space.

[drsteelhammer]

Me: "It would be like comparing the number of shark attacks against... the number of planets humans live on. One number might change but the other has always been one."

Girl in class: "Aren't there three planets humans live on? Earth, Mars and the Moon?"

*Slightly later*

Boy in class: "Isn't there another identical earth planet they found somewhere which has copies of all of us on it?"

Admittedly, these are 11 year old kids, but still, they're an average to above average ability group...

Obviously the boy has read about the multiverse hypothesis and mixed "another planet" with an "infinite amount of identical planets" up

[Witherweaver]

The thing is, the analogy still works even if that other number is one, three, or some fixed N, even infinity.

[Watno]

Me: "It would be like comparing the number of shark attacks against... the number of planets humans live on. One number might change but the other has always been one."

Well, I'm pretty sure the number of planets humans live on used to be 0, will probably increase at some point, and also go back to 0.

[Kuildeous]

Me: "It would be like comparing the number of shark attacks against... the number of planets humans live on. One number might change but the other has always been one."

Girl in class: "Aren't there three planets humans live on? Earth, Mars and the Moon?"

*Slightly later*

Boy in class: "Isn't there another identical earth planet they found somewhere which has copies of all of us on it?"

Admittedly, these are 11 year old kids, but still, they're an average to above average ability group...

The boy might be intentionally speaking slyly. I could certainly see someone facetiously saying that.

Not sure about the girl's question. I suppose it could be deadpan humor. I'd have to know her prior history.

[Teproc]

I think the girl's comment is not that outlandish. She's probably thinking that the Moon (which is not a planet but let's ignore that) and Mars are planets we know and do stuff on. No human has been on Mars of course, but we do have Curiosity sending us pictures etc. It's kind of like the Caribbean in 1500. That's still overestimating how much we know of Mars, but I can see how an 11-year old would get there (especially after somethinglike The Martian, which I could completely see even a relatively smart kid thinking it's a true story).

[Joseph2302]

Me: "It would be like comparing the number of shark attacks against... the number of planets humans live on. One number might change but the other has always been one."

Girl in class: "Aren't there three planets humans live on? Earth, Mars and the Moon?"

*Slightly later*

Boy in class: "Isn't there another identical earth planet they found somewhere which has copies of all of us on it?"

Admittedly, these are 11 year old kids, but still, they're an average to above average ability group...

The boy might be intentionally speaking slyly. I could certainly see someone facetiously saying that.

Not sure about the girl's question. I suppose it could be deadpan humor. I'd have to know her prior history.

Maybe they just don't like him, and are just trolling him?

[Seprix]

Occam's razor, guys. They probably really thought that. If Tables didn't immediately think they were joking, then I don't think they were.

[Burning Skull]

Someone, teleport me from work to home please.
The mere thought of one hour in underground is unbearable.

[Kirian]

(Also obligatory reminder that I'm a teaching assistant not a teacher, so I wasn't really 'teaching' anything, I just happened to pipe up before the actual teacher did in this case)

Can you... explain further?  Are you observing with intent to later go into teaching?  Is teaching assistant a regular thing at the 6th grade level in Britain?  What's your actual job description?

(Serious questions, not trying to joke or anything, I'm interested.)

[Tables]

(Also obligatory reminder that I'm a teaching assistant not a teacher, so I wasn't really 'teaching' anything, I just happened to pipe up before the actual teacher did in this case)

Can you... explain further?  Are you observing with intent to later go into teaching?  Is teaching assistant a regular thing at the 6th grade level in Britain?  What's your actual job description?

(Serious questions, not trying to joke or anything, I'm interested.)

From what I understand, Teaching Assistant means something slightly different in the US. I don't know exactly what it is over there or what the equivalent to our TA's are called there.

Basically, a Teaching Assistant's main role is to support students with learning difficulties, called Special Educational Needs or SEN for short - things like dyslexia, autism, physical disabilities such as sight or hearing impairments and so forth. English as an Additional Language, or EAL, isn't quite an SEN need but often TAs will support those students as well. Not every class will have a TA with them, generally only the ones with a significant number of SEN need. Mostly this means the lower sets will have TA support more often, since many SEN needs (yes I know the N stands for need but SENs sounds wrong) tend to lead to lower attainment and needing a slower working pace. This set just happens to be a slightly stronger set with an interesting mix of characters. We have one boy who was born with only one arm (normally fine but I occasionally have to help him with the more graphical stuff), one girl with a moderate visual impairment who I spend most of my time in that group, two boys with autism (one who I spend most of the rest of my time with), one boy with EAL at the point he struggles with language and... I think that's it. Basically, quite a needy group for a middle set.

Exactly what a TA does depends on school, and even varies from lesson to lesson. In the above example I mostly help with the visually impaired girl as I mentioned, while in other lessons I might sit with one or two pupils and help break the work down for them. Other lessons I'll just roam around the room and support generally, but keep an eye on a small number of SEN pupils in particular.

I'm happy to talk more about what TAs do if you're still interested but have to get going now, sorry.

[jsh357]

(Also obligatory reminder that I'm a teaching assistant not a teacher, so I wasn't really 'teaching' anything, I just happened to pipe up before the actual teacher did in this case)

Can you... explain further?  Are you observing with intent to later go into teaching?  Is teaching assistant a regular thing at the 6th grade level in Britain?  What's your actual job description?

(Serious questions, not trying to joke or anything, I'm interested.)

From what I understand, Teaching Assistant means something slightly different in the US. I don't know exactly what it is over there or what the equivalent to our TA's are called there.

Basically, a Teaching Assistant's main role is to support students with learning difficulties, called Special Educational Needs or SEN for short - things like dyslexia, autism, physical disabilities such as sight or hearing impairments and so forth. English as an Additional Language, or EAL, isn't quite an SEN need but often TAs will support those students as well. Not every class will have a TA with them, generally only the ones with a significant number of SEN need. Mostly this means the lower sets will have TA support more often, since many SEN needs (yes I know the N stands for need but SENs sounds wrong) tend to lead to lower attainment and needing a slower working pace. This set just happens to be a slightly stronger set with an interesting mix of characters. We have one boy who was born with only one arm (normally fine but I occasionally have to help him with the more graphical stuff), one girl with a moderate visual impairment who I spend most of my time in that group, two boys with autism (one who I spend most of the rest of my time with), one boy with EAL at the point he struggles with language and... I think that's it. Basically, quite a needy group for a middle set.

Exactly what a TA does depends on school, and even varies from lesson to lesson. In the above example I mostly help with the visually impaired girl as I mentioned, while in other lessons I might sit with one or two pupils and help break the work down for them. Other lessons I'll just roam around the room and support generally, but keep an eye on a small number of SEN pupils in particular.

I'm happy to talk more about what TAs do if you're still interested but have to get going now, sorry.

Yeah, that is completely different from over here. In the US, a TA is usually a grad student who teaches parts of a course (or even all of it sometimes) for a professor. Or someone who does administrative tasks for a busy professor. I think the job you're referring to is usually just called a 'special needs educator' here (maybe not that exact wording, but I have several colleagues on that path).

[Kirian]

Basically, a Teaching Assistant's main role is to support students with learning difficulties, called Special Educational Needs or SEN for short - things like dyslexia, autism, physical disabilities such as sight or hearing impairments and so forth. English as an Additional Language, or EAL, isn't quite an SEN need but often TAs will support those students as well.

Ah, got it, I thought that might have been what you meant but couldn't be sure.  Over here that would be a paraprofessional, or para for short.

[Haddock]

At the university level in Britain, the term TA starts matching up again with the US definition.  Or more so, anyway.
For instance I have done some TAing for a few varied 3rd year courses. The professor and I teach the class jointly, him taking the lead obviously. But my main role there was to collect and mark the work for the students, leaving the professor time to focus on the class itself.

The marking can be an almighty pain, hoping to graduate to tutor next year to avoid it.

[gkrieg13]

At the university level in Britain, the term TA starts matching up again with the US definition.  Or more so, anyway.
For instance I have done some TAing for a few varied 3rd year courses. The professor and I teach the class jointly, him taking the lead obviously. But my main role there was to collect and mark the work for the students, leaving the professor time to focus on the class itself.

The marking can be an almighty pain, hoping to graduate to tutor next year to avoid it.

NOBODY likes grading.  But at least you get paid for it 

[Darth Vader]

Obi-Wan was the worst teacher of all time. He even flat out lied to Luke about me and that I was his dad and stuff.

[ConMan]

I know someone who had people literally photocopy his solution to something and hand it in, including his name on them.

I know someone who had a "wall of shame" in his PhD office for examples of blatant plagiarism. This included one essay where the introduction and conclusion were in the student's highly identifiable broken English, while the body was grammatically perfect (and pretty much verbatim the relevant Wikipedia article). I think he had one or two more copied-from-Wikipedia essays that left in links and citation marks.

[Roadrunner7671]

I don't think this deserves its own thread:

In what order do you think of the base cards? Is it Copper, Silver, Gold, Estate, Duchy, Province, Curse? Is it Curse, Copper, Silver, Gold, Estate, Duchy, Province? Is it Copper, Silver, Gold, Curse, Estate, Duchy, Province? Is it Curse, Estate, Duchy, Province, Copper, Silver, Gold? Is it something else?

Thanks!

[LastFootnote]

I don't think this deserves its own thread:

In what order do you think of the base cards? Is it Copper, Silver, Gold, Estate, Duchy, Province, Curse? Is it Curse, Copper, Silver, Gold, Estate, Duchy, Province? Is it Copper, Silver, Gold, Curse, Estate, Duchy, Province? Is it Curse, Estate, Duchy, Province, Copper, Silver, Gold? Is it something else?

Thanks!

The first one.

[XerxesPraelor]

I don't think this deserves its own thread:

In what order do you think of the base cards? Is it Copper, Silver, Gold, Estate, Duchy, Province, Curse? Is it Curse, Copper, Silver, Gold, Estate, Duchy, Province? Is it Copper, Silver, Gold, Curse, Estate, Duchy, Province? Is it Curse, Estate, Duchy, Province, Copper, Silver, Gold? Is it something else?

Thanks!

The first one.

Same with me.

[Axxle]

I don't think this deserves its own thread:

In what order do you think of the base cards? Is it Copper, Silver, Gold, Estate, Duchy, Province, Curse? Is it Curse, Copper, Silver, Gold, Estate, Duchy, Province? Is it Copper, Silver, Gold, Curse, Estate, Duchy, Province? Is it Curse, Estate, Duchy, Province, Copper, Silver, Gold? Is it something else?

Thanks!

Today it's Copper, Silver, Gold, Province, Estate, Duchy, Curse.

Ask again tomorrow.

[Seprix]

I set it up in this way:

Event E D P [C] C [R]
Event C S G [P] Trash

I don't use the trash pile card, but instead set the cards sideways, to constitute a difference in pile.

[Titandrake]

I set it up Seprix's way. If I were explaining the game to someone new, the first one. If I were thinking about it during the game, Province - Gold - Silver  - Duchy - Estate - Copper since that's roughly the order I consider them when making buy decisions.

[Awaclus]

I don't think this deserves its own thread:

In what order do you think of the base cards? Is it Copper, Silver, Gold, Estate, Duchy, Province, Curse? Is it Curse, Copper, Silver, Gold, Estate, Duchy, Province? Is it Copper, Silver, Gold, Curse, Estate, Duchy, Province? Is it Curse, Estate, Duchy, Province, Copper, Silver, Gold? Is it something else?

Thanks!

Copper, Silver, Gold, Province, Duchy, Estate, Curse.

[Teproc]

I think of them as I lay them out on the table when I play, which is

Curse Estate Duchy Province (Colony)
(Trash) Copper Silver (Potion) Gold (Platinum)

[Kirian]

You know what's the worst when I'm playing in-person Dominion (which is very rare)?  When people set up the cards in cost order... including the standard supply cards.  So the table gets laid out something like this:

Colony - Platinum - Province
Inheritance - King's Court - Gold - Nobles
Market - Catacombs - Duchy
Coppersmith - Worker's Village - Tournament
Silver - Oasis - Urchin - Plan
Page - Pawn - Estate
Copper - [Curse]

(These sorts of people invariably fail to put out curse if there's no curser.)

So this means that depending on my seat, I have to look over/around big stacks to see the standard kingdom stacks.  And don't forget the events being mixed in with all the regular cards!

[Seprix]

You know what's the worst when I'm playing in-person Dominion (which is very rare)?  When people set up the cards in cost order... including the standard supply cards.  So the table gets laid out something like this:

Colony - Platinum - Province
Inheritance - King's Court - Gold - Nobles
Market - Catacombs - Duchy
Coppersmith - Worker's Village - Tournament
Silver - Oasis - Urchin - Plan
Page - Pawn - Estate
Copper - [Curse]

(These sorts of people invariably fail to put out curse if there's no curser.)

So this means that depending on my seat, I have to look over/around big stacks to see the standard kingdom stacks.  And don't forget the events being mixed in with all the regular cards!

I set up the Kingdom cards in cost order, but who would do THAT!?

[Chris is me]

Honestly I will probably start a whole thread on how you lay out your dominion cards when I get home and can use a camera.

I usually do Treasures / Trash top row, Victory / Curse 2nd, then two rows of Kingdom cards mimicking Dominion Online's layout.

Depending on the table / board, and how lazy / intoxicated I am, I'll sometimes do columns instead with pricier cards closer to the player. So like the leftmost column would be Copper Silver Gold, then Estate Duchy Province. Curse and Trash go to the right of Estate along with the two cheapest Kingdom cards, then the remaining 8 Kingdom Cards go in the two rows below that.

Events? Eh, they just go kind of wherever. Usually closest to the player most likely to forget they exist.

[pacovf]

I don't get the hate for people that don't put out Curses out when there are no cursers. In the very rare cases where it matters, you can just take them out of the box when requested, and every other time it makes setup/clean-up that bit faster.

[Kuildeous]

You know what's the worst when I'm playing in-person Dominion (which is very rare)?  When people set up the cards in cost order... including the standard supply cards.  So the table gets laid out something like this:

Colony - Platinum - Province
Inheritance - King's Court - Gold - Nobles
Market - Catacombs - Duchy
Coppersmith - Worker's Village - Tournament
Silver - Oasis - Urchin - Plan
Page - Pawn - Estate
Copper - [Curse]

(These sorts of people invariably fail to put out curse if there's no curser.)

So this means that depending on my seat, I have to look over/around big stacks to see the standard kingdom stacks.  And don't forget the events being mixed in with all the regular cards!

I set up the Kingdom cards in cost order, but who would do THAT!?

I agree. The treasures/victory cards are staples and should always stay where they are (including Curses, but I understand if they're not set out as a matter of convenience). I also do kingdom cards in cost order. I don't have Adventures yet, so I can't say what I'd do with the events. I guess put them above the treasure/VPs. Probably.

[LastFootnote]

You know what's the worst when I'm playing in-person Dominion (which is very rare)?  When people set up the cards in cost order... including the standard supply cards.  So the table gets laid out something like this:

Colony - Platinum - Province
Inheritance - King's Court - Gold - Nobles
Market - Catacombs - Duchy
Coppersmith - Worker's Village - Tournament
Silver - Oasis - Urchin - Plan
Page - Pawn - Estate
Copper - [Curse]

(These sorts of people invariably fail to put out curse if there's no curser.)

So this means that depending on my seat, I have to look over/around big stacks to see the standard kingdom stacks.  And don't forget the events being mixed in with all the regular cards!

* LastFootnote shudders

[LastFootnote]

I don't have Adventures yet, so I can't say what I'd do with the events. I guess put them above the treasure/VPs. Probably.

We used to do…

[Basic Cards]
[Kingdom Cards]
[Events]

…but now we do…

[Basic Cards]
[Events]
[Kingdom Cards]

…and I think it makes Events just slightly easier to remember. Though sometimes people still forget. Joke's on them!

[eHalcyon]

Sort the cards alphabetically by artist first name.

[Kirian]

I just wanted to point out that this may be the most off-color joke I've seen referenced in MLP:

[J Reggie]

Sort the cards alphabetically by artist first name.

You can also sort the cards by the most recent Qvist ranking.

I just use the mat from the big box most of the time, and when I don't have it I set up the basic cards in that order. I usually put Ruins in the Platinum or Potion slot, depending on whether either of those is being used.

[Watno]

I think putting events with kingdom cards is perfectly reasonable.

[Witherweaver]

I sort the cards by their mass, least to greatest.  It seems the most natural.

[Watno]

what's the tiebreaker?

[Awaclus]

I don't always sort the kingdom cards, but when I do, I'm still the only one around the table who has any idea why they're in that order.

[qmech]

what's the tiebreaker?

Bruce Banner's neck.

[Tables]

You know what's the worst when I'm playing in-person Dominion (which is very rare)?  When people set up the cards in cost order... including the standard supply cards.  So the table gets laid out something like this:

...

(These sorts of people invariably fail to put out curse if there's no curser.)

So this means that depending on my seat, I have to look over/around big stacks to see the standard kingdom stacks.  And don't forget the events being mixed in with all the regular cards!

I have a friend who insists on putting kingdom victory and treasure cards with the basic ones, and it always annoys me. I can see the logic of it at least - since it means you have action cards, treasure cards and victory cards separate, but man I don't want to forget or never even notice there was Fairgrounds in the game just because you plonked it up there.

[funkdoc]

idk if we have a thread for non-dominion streams but a good one is startin up now:

https://www.twitch.tv/lordbbh

this is a longtime buddy of mine who's a freakin god at classic arcade games.  he's beaten hundreds of them on one credit, but his recent streams have taken a different approach.  specifically, a little something called MAME Roulette!

the idea is simple: fire up the arcade emulator MAME, and have it display a random list of games.  he plays the top game on the list unless it isn't emulated or it's gambling/porn, in which case he rerolls.  every 5th game he does Viewer's Choice, where we get to vote on any game from the given list for him to play.

recent highlights include a game where you stick a finger up people's butts, and BBH getting a one-credit clear on the Capcom shooter UN Squadron (after not playing it for years)

he does these every Monday & Thursday, so stop on by!  arcade games tend to have a lot more unique aesthetics/presentation than console stuff, and i think that works well for streaming.

[Gveoniz]

I was thinking about the obligatory April's fool joke about Isotropic being live along with "Empire" (the Innovation achievement), but then I find out Isotropic Innovation is down too...

[Seprix]

April Fools jokes are so cliche and unoriginal. I refuse to participate.

[Axxle]

I won the lottery today!!!

[Axxle]

Not! April fooolss   

[Seprix]

Not! April fooolss   

lame

[Kuildeous]

April Fools jokes are so cliche and unoriginal. I refuse to participate.

Besides, the best April Fool's pranks are done on days other than April 1. People are less likely to expect it.

[Tables]

I was very tempted to ask theory if he'd mock ban me for something on April Fools day, but I think that joke has been done before anyway. Still could have been funny I guess?

[Kirian]

I was very tempted to ask theory if he'd mock ban me for something on April Fools day, but I think that joke has been done before anyway. Still could have been funny I guess?

I can't ban you, can I just mock you instead?

[Witherweaver]

[LastFootnote]

I was very tempted to ask theory if he'd mock ban me for something on April Fools day, but I think that joke has been done before anyway. Still could have been funny I guess?

I think it would be sad if you were banned, not funny.

[silverspawn]

Not! April fooolss   

it's my birthday today!

[Axxle]

Not! April fooolss   

it's my birthday today!

Happy Spawnday!

[2.71828.....]

Where is the classic 'remove the restriction from forum games for overall posts' thing that theory does today? Totally slacking on the job.

[LastFootnote]

Where is the classic 'remove the restriction from forum games for overall posts' thing that theory does today? Totally slacking on the job.

Seems like a really tame April Fools' Day in general. I can't even find any new "leaked" Pokémon from Sun and Moon.

[Seprix]

Where is the classic 'remove the restriction from forum games for overall posts' thing that theory does today? Totally slacking on the job.

Seems like a really tame April Fools' Day in general. I can't even find any new "leaked" Pokémon from Sun and Moon.

It's TrumpGrounds on Newgrounds today, it's pretty hilarious.

[Awaclus]

Where is the classic 'remove the restriction from forum games for overall posts' thing that theory does today? Totally slacking on the job.

Seems like a really tame April Fools' Day in general. I can't even find any new "leaked" Pokémon from Sun and Moon.

The gmail mic drop joke was brilliant though.

[Kuildeous]

Not! April fooolss   

it's my birthday today!

Happy Spawnday!

This deserves more likes than it currently has.

[Joseph2302]

I was very tempted to ask theory if he'd mock ban me for something on April Fools day, but I think that joke has been done before anyway. Still could have been funny I guess?

I can't ban you, can I just mock you instead?

Everyone else in the world does.

[Tables]

I'm seriously considering getting a New 3DS (XL), despite already having an original 3DS. I pretty much never get mid-generation console upgrades but there's a few reasons I'm considering it.

1) Hyrule Warriors Legends sounds really fun, despite having played through the original on Wii U. It sounds like it fixes a lot of that games issues and it'll be nice to have a somewhat low-thought-required game to play on the bus to/from work every day, which will last a long time. And while this isn't a version exclusive, it apparently runs badly on only 3DS's but runs well on N3DS.

2) My current 3DS is beginning to get wear and tear. It's had many hundreds of hours of use - perhaps even many thousands, so this doesn't surprise me too much. The circle pad's rubber is more than half worn away, it won't be long until it's completely broken off (still comfy enough to use though). The console has dirt in pretty much every corner that I can't quite wash out. The top screen has two vertical lines of scratches/dug in dirt from where the bottom screen meets it. The earphone jack is a little bit loose, causing slight crackling sounds when it's knocked lightly or adjusted. The stylus holder is very loose, leading to the stylus having almost been lost on multiple occasions (although I do have spares, of course). Getting a shiny new replacement would be really nice.

3) Better technology inside. I like the idea of the head tracking 3D (although I should look in to how good people feel it is), and having bigger screens sounds nice as well. Plus I believe it generally loads faster, and there's a few games which take advantage of the extra buttons.

However there's a few downsides I need to consider, of course.

1) Cost. I've looked in a few places, and I might be able to get it cheaper, but typically it looks like around £135ish for an N3DS and £165 for an N3DS XL. That's a lot of money on other potential things.

2) No currently true exclusive games I want. Xenoblade Chronicles is pretty much the best game ever, but I already have the original and the Wii U VC version, and man, I don't need a third. And HW:L can still run on an old 3DS, even if it's at reduced quality.

3) The large size has a drawback itself in that I can no longer keep it in my pocket. Normally nowadays I put my 3DS in my bag, but it's nice when e.g. getting on a bus or in a queue for something being able to slide it in my pocket when I need my hands free and getting it back out again. Maybe it'll still fit in some of my trouser pockets, but certainly not all of them like the 3DS does.

Anyone - especially those who have the N3DS - have any opinions to share that might help me make the decision?

[LastFootnote]

3) Better technology inside. I like the idea of the head tracking 3D (although I should look in to how good people feel it is), and having bigger screens sounds nice as well. Plus I believe it generally loads faster, and there's a few games which take advantage of the extra buttons.

The head-tracking 3D is amazing! It's not totally flawless, but it blows the original 3DS out of the water. Not too long after getting my original 3DS, I turned the 3D off unless I need it for gameplay. On the New 3DS XL, I keep it on all the time (unless I'm playing a 2D game, obviously).

Originally I was in the crowd that was very angry that the New 3DS (non-XL) wasn't coming to North America. But now that I have the XL, I'm not looking back. The bigger screens make a huge difference. And if you want to play any original DS games on the 3DS without them becoming a blurry mess, the XL is almost a must. It shrinks the games down to the size of the original 3DS screens, whereas the original 3DS shrinks them down to oblivion. Damn Nintendo and their screen ratios changing radically with every portable they release… They could really learn from Sony in that regard.

But I digress. If you play your 3DS a lot, I strongly recommend upgrading from the original to a 3DS XL. The one caveat is that we don't seem to play many of the same games, so I can't speak to how specific games will run.

[Tables]

Thanks for the opinion, that's really helpful to know. I've just done a little digging, and while it seems a lot of professional reviews were slating HWL on old 3DS, a lot of people have said they were overly critical, and the game is fully playable - just with a sub-par framerate. So on the other hand, that's one of my reasons for upgrading maybe being less worthwhile. Hmm...

[LastFootnote]

Well I don't think I have any games that are exclusive to the New 3DS. Wait that's not true, I downloaded Earthbound, and SNES games like that are exclusive to the New 3DS. Anyway, it's worth upgrading to the New 3DS XL independent of the better processor, is my point. The better 3D and larger screens are a godsend. Also I believe it has slightly better battery life.

[Tables]

I did it. I've ordered an N3DS XL.

If I don't enjoy it, I'm blaming you, LastFootnote.

[LastFootnote]

I did it. I've ordered an N3DS XL.

If I don't enjoy it, I'm blaming you, LastFootnote.

Fair enough.

[Kuildeous]

So very impractical, but I found the video satisfying.

http://www.cnet.com/news/bonkers-120-sided-die-puts-the-big-roll-in-role-playing-games/

[Accatitippi]

So very impractical, but I found the video satisfying.

http://www.cnet.com/news/bonkers-120-sided-die-puts-the-big-roll-in-role-playing-games/

It's funny because it's Random Stuff.

[Lekkit]

Apparently, getting used to a new name takes some time. :S

[Seprix]

Apparently, getting used to a new name takes some time. :S

Do they Lekkit though?

[Chris is me]

I missed the 3DS discussion a little, but on top of everything else, the biggest advantage is that the volume slider is not underneath your left hand anymore! No more accidentally spiking the volume up or down mid game. I am definitely happy with the upgrade, and it does sometimes still fit in my pockets.

[Seprix]

#shamelessSelfPromotion

[Tables]

I missed the 3DS discussion a little, but on top of everything else, the biggest advantage is that the volume slider is not underneath your left hand anymore! No more accidentally spiking the volume up or down mid game. I am definitely happy with the upgrade, and it does sometimes still fit in my pockets.

Yep, I'm playing my N3DS now, and it can indeed still fit in my pocket, which is pretty nice. It's noticably heavier though, but that's to be expected I guess. Otherwise, I'm pretty happy with it. I'm currently playing Bravely Second, and whenever I transition to a menu or back out again I keep thinking, damn why does everything look so big. The 3D tracking is actually really good, better than I expected for sure. I did have to turn off auto brightness, that doesn't seem to work very well but otherwise, yeah, it's nice all around.

[LastFootnote]

I missed the 3DS discussion a little, but on top of everything else, the biggest advantage is that the volume slider is not underneath your left hand anymore! No more accidentally spiking the volume up or down mid game. I am definitely happy with the upgrade, and it does sometimes still fit in my pockets.

Yep, I'm playing my N3DS now, and it can indeed still fit in my pocket, which is pretty nice. It's noticably heavier though, but that's to be expected I guess. Otherwise, I'm pretty happy with it. I'm currently playing Bravely Second, and whenever I transition to a menu or back out again I keep thinking, damn why does everything look so big. The 3D tracking is actually really good, better than I expected for sure. I did have to turn off auto brightness, that doesn't seem to work very well but otherwise, yeah, it's nice all around.

Yes, I turned off auto-brightness a long time ago.

5: For playing on a bus/train in daylight
4: For playing on a bus/train when the sky is overcast
3: For playing indoors in normal light
2: For playing in relatively dim light
1: For playing in very dim light or darkness

[Witherweaver]

Many more:

http://imgur.com/gallery/tIwD5

Actually, I guess here is the source of them: http://parksandrings.tumblr.com/

[ashersky]

http://imgur.com/gallery/tIwD5

I don't get it.

[Teproc]

http://imgur.com/gallery/tIwD5

I don't get it.

The lines are from the NBC sitcom Parks and Recreation. The images are from the filmic adaptations of J.R.R. Tolkien's famous Lord of the Rings trilogy.

It is humorous because of the juxtaposition of silly, jokey-type dialogue on images from a grand epic story, though sometimes the humour also comes from the resemblance between the situations in those very different works.

[Witherweaver]

http://imgur.com/gallery/tIwD5

I don't get it.

Have you watched Parks & Recreation?

[Witherweaver]

[ashersky]

http://imgur.com/gallery/tIwD5

I don't get it.

Have you watched Parks & Recreation?

Sure, but none of those lines stand out to me as being from the show.  I've only seen maybe a dozen episodes.

There was one about a hamburger that was funny.

[ashersky]

Bollywood is so great.

[Donald X.]

[Seprix]

While funny, there are more differences than that.

[Awaclus]

While funny, there are more differences than that.

So when it stops being funny, there are no more differences than that?

[Seprix]

While funny, there are more differences than that.

So when it stops being funny, there are no more differences than that?

Ever the literalist.

[Kirian]

While funny, there are more differences than that.

So when it stops being funny, there are no more differences than that?

[eHalcyon]

[Chris is me]

Why are his pants on backwards? Or is his TORSO on backwards???

[eHalcyon]

Torso.  My best guess is Photoshop.

[XerxesPraelor]

While funny, there are more differences than that.

So when it stops being funny, there are no more differences than that?

The thing is, that xkcd comic person is actually correct, whereas awalcus's form response is not correct no matter how literal you want to be.

[Roadrunner7671]

Where did Limetime go?

[Haddock]

Where did Limetime go?

This.  And not just because we miss him in forum Mafia either. Not seen hide nor hair of him.

[Darth Vader]

Where did Limetime go?

I squared him off against my Apprentice, and he got trashed. Sorry.

[Seprix]

Where did Limetime go?

I squared him off against my Apprentice, and he got trashed. Sorry.

Who are you? Are you an alternate account or a new player? Can I play a game of Dominion with you? I promise not to cut off your hand.

[Darth Vader]

Who are you? Are you an alternate account or a new player? Can I play a game of Dominion with you? I promise not to cut off your hand.

I am Wandering Winder.

[Seprix]

Who are you? Are you an alternate account or a new player? Can I play a game of Dominion with you? I promise not to cut off your hand.

I am Wandering Winder.

Guess I walked into that one.

[Joseph2302]

Who are you? Are you an alternate account or a new player? Can I play a game of Dominion with you? I promise not to cut off your hand.

I am Wandering Winder.

Are you also the reincarnation of Isotropicwasbetter?

[Darth Vader]

Are you also the reincarnation of Isotropicwasbetter?

No, that was you.

[Seprix]

[ashersky]

There's a college-age female on the train reading a beat up copy of Pride and Prejudice.  Is there possibly a more clichéd image in all the world?

[Seprix]

There's a college-age female on the train reading a beat up copy of Pride and Prejudice.  Is there possibly a more clichéd image in all the world?

More cliche than a pimpled high schooler wearing serial rapist glasses playing Magic: The Gathering? I don't know that cliche, though it sounds very passé.

[silverspawn]

I would bet on there being fewer rapists among MTG players than among a random group of people.

[Awaclus]

I would bet on there being fewer rapists among MTG players than among a random group of people.

It's not the guy himself, it's his glasses that are the serial rapist. Every day he walks on the streets, his glasses go and rape random strangers, no matter how much he tries to stop them.

[silverspawn]

I would bet on there being fewer rapists among MTG players than among a random group of people.

It's not the guy himself, it's his glasses that are the serial rapist. Every day he walks on the streets, his glasses go and rape random strangers, no matter how much he tries to stop them.

hm, okay.

[Teproc]

I would bet on there being fewer rapists among MTG players than among a random group of people.

I wouldn't, if only because of the proportion of males among MTG players.

[Seprix]

I would bet on there being fewer rapists among MTG players than among a random group of people.

No, the glasses are the stereotypical 'serial rapist' glasses, so named because a few creepy rapists so happened to wear them. They're an ugly 80s look. You know, something like this:

[Awaclus]

I would bet on there being fewer rapists among MTG players than among a random group of people.

I wouldn't, if only because of the proportion of males among MTG players.

I would, if only because of the proportion of people from first-world countries among MTG players.

[Kuildeous]

Probably a long shot, but does anyone here read Arabic or Persian-Farsi fluently?

[Awaclus]

Probably a long shot, but does anyone here read Arabic or Persian-Farsi fluently?

I still recognize certain Arabic phrases (such as a request to join my team or a reference to my mother's vagina) when non-Unicode Arabic characters are displayed on a Finnish system (i.e. when they look something like this: ð˜M‚鎖‚ÅŒø‰Ê) from back when I played the retail version of Conquer Online, which is highly popular among Egyptian people. Is that close enough?

[silverspawn]

I would bet on there being fewer rapists among MTG players than among a random group of people.

I wouldn't, if only because of the proportion of males among MTG players.

Hm, good point. I didn't think about male/female. I'll retract that statement to a random group with the same male/female ratio.

[Kuildeous]

Probably a long shot, but does anyone here read Arabic or Persian-Farsi fluently?

I still recognize certain Arabic phrases (such as a request to join my team or a reference to my mother's vagina) when non-Unicode Arabic characters are displayed on a Finnish system (i.e. when they look something like this: ð˜M‚鎖‚ÅŒø‰Ê) from back when I played the retail version of Conquer Online, which is highly popular among Egyptian people. Is that close enough?

Well, admittedly better than my understanding, but regrettably not.

[Chris is me]

I would bet on there being fewer rapists among MTG players than among a random group of people.

Basically everything I know about MTG communities, nerd spaces in general, rape culture, and misogyny would disagree with this. Obviously I can't make a rigorous, provable argument for the opposite, but MTG play groups can be pretty toxic spaces for non-men.

I guess there's a chance that more people would be okay with rape in these communities, but less would be bothered to actually go out and be rapists.

[Seprix]

I would bet on there being fewer rapists among MTG players than among a random group of people.

Basically everything I know about MTG communities, nerd spaces in general, rape culture, and misogyny would disagree with this. Obviously I can't make a rigorous, provable argument for the opposite, but MTG play groups can be pretty toxic spaces for non-men.

I guess there's a chance that more people would be okay with rape in these communities, but less would be bothered to actually go out and be rapists.

I can't imagine those people would be 'okay' with rape as much as it is a jealousy and entitlement about not getting 'some pussy' or something like that. The worst of nerd culture (as you refer to) seems to be a bunch of immature beta, alpha wannabe twats, of the whiny 12 year old CoD variety, but that's a bit stereotypical, and too dismissive of me to really accept myself as an answer. And well, there are a number of more things to ask or discuss which I wrote down, and then well, this is sort of an RSP topic, so I deleted it all. :p

Back to your regularly scheduled programming?

[silverspawn]

I would bet on there being fewer rapists among MTG players than among a random group of people.

Basically everything I know about MTG communities, nerd spaces in general, rape culture, and misogyny would disagree with this. Obviously I can't make a rigorous, provable argument for the opposite, but MTG play groups can be pretty toxic spaces for non-men.

Hm, interesting.

[Accatitippi]

Probably a long shot, but does anyone here read Arabic or Persian-Farsi fluently?

I don't myself, but two of my flatmates speak each of them as first or second languages. May they be of help?

[Awaclus]

Basically everything I know about MTG communities, nerd spaces in general, rape culture, and misogyny would disagree with this. Obviously I can't make a rigorous, provable argument for the opposite, but MTG play groups can be pretty toxic spaces for non-men.

I guess there's a chance that more people would be okay with rape in these communities, but less would be bothered to actually go out and be rapists.

I find it extremely difficult to believe that there exists anyone who plays MTG and is "okay with rape". People from first-world country cultures don't commit rape because they generally think rape is okay, they do it mostly because they're drunk.

[silverspawn]

People from first-world country cultures don't commit rape because they generally think rape is okay, they do it mostly because they're drunk.

I really don't know about that.

[faust]

People from first-world country cultures don't commit rape because they generally think rape is okay, they do it mostly because they're drunk.

I really don't know about that.

[Chris is me]

People from first-world country cultures don't commit rape because they generally think rape is okay, they do it mostly because they're drunk.

I really don't know about that.

Relatively few (but a nontrivial number) of people think rape is okay. Many, many people don't think of what they are doing as rape.

I have been drunk many times and I've never wanted to rape anybody. I honestly just do not understand how being drunk makes people who are otherwise moral upstanding citizens okay with rape. I don't believe it.

[Joseph2302]

People from first-world country cultures don't commit rape because they generally think rape is okay, they do it mostly because they're drunk.

I really don't know about that.

Relatively few (but a nontrivial number) of people think rape is okay. Many, many people don't think of what they are doing as rape.

I have been drunk many times and I've never wanted to rape anybody. I honestly just do not understand how being drunk makes people who are otherwise moral upstanding citizens okay with rape. I don't believe it.

I think this line of conversation should probably be in RSP.

[Awaclus]

People from first-world country cultures don't commit rape because they generally think rape is okay, they do it mostly because they're drunk.

I really don't know about that.

Well, then it's a good thing that I really do.

Source: http://www.vawnet.org/applied-research-papers/print-document.php?doc_id=1586

[Seprix]

People from first-world country cultures don't commit rape because they generally think rape is okay, they do it mostly because they're drunk.

I really don't know about that.

I don't know anybody who thinks rape is okay. If people did think it's fine and dandy, why is there a law against it, and why is everyone so opposed to rape as a concept? I never see any rape advocates.

[Chris is me]

Yeah sorry about the tangent. I'd prefer just dropping the topic to making an RSP thread about it though.

[Seprix]

Yeah sorry about the tangent. I'd prefer just dropping the topic to making an RSP thread about it though.

I thought you said dropping the mic for a second.

[Kirian]

There's a college-age female on the train reading a beat up copy of Pride and Prejudice.  Is there possibly a more clichéd image in all the world?

A middle-aged slightly-overweight dude in a football jersey, beer in one hand, remote in the other, watching football.

[Awaclus]

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=15166.0

People who wish to drop the topic can feel free to do so.

[Kirian]

A group of teenagers at a convention who think CAH is edgy and original.

An idiot American trying to get a rise out of the guards at Buckingham Palace.

A frat bro with a beer bong.

[Seprix]

A group of teenagers at a convention who think CAH is edgy and original.

Congenital adrenal hyperplasia?

edit: Oh, Cards Against Humanity.

[singletee]

A group of teenagers at a convention who think CAH is edgy and original.

Congenital adrenal hyperplasia?

Cosine Adjacent Hypotenuse.

[Kuildeous]

Probably a long shot, but does anyone here read Arabic or Persian-Farsi fluently?

I don't myself, but two of my flatmates speak each of them as first or second languages. May they be of help?

I appreciate it. They've decided to go with a professional service, which is for the best. That way, someone can be held accountable if there's a bad translation.

Though now I'm just curious. We were jacking around with various translations listed on this page: https://www.cms.gov/CCIIO/Resources/Regulations-and-Guidance/Downloads/Appendix-B-Sample-Translated-Taglines.pdf

We can copy the text from the PDF and paste it into Word. Aside from the RTL/LTR flow, it looks like some of the words are "elongated(?)". It's like a large space was inserted between two characters. I wonder if that actually changes the meaning. I suppose it could be a font change, like italicizing a word in English changes the look more than the meaning (though Christine does mean something different from Christine).

So if your flatmates have any insight into this, I'm curious.

[pacovf]

A group of teenagers at a convention who think CAH is edgy and original.

I thought you meant Cyanide and Happiness, and didn't understand the hate (although I'll admit it's very hit-and-miss).

[Awaclus]

A group of teenagers at a convention who think CAH is edgy and original.

I thought you meant Cyanide and Happiness, and didn't understand the hate (although I'll admit it's very hit-and-miss).

There are also teenagers who think Cyanide and Happiness is edgy and original.

[Accatitippi]

Probably a long shot, but does anyone here read Arabic or Persian-Farsi fluently?

I don't myself, but two of my flatmates speak each of them as first or second languages. May they be of help?

I appreciate it. They've decided to go with a professional service, which is for the best. That way, someone can be held accountable if there's a bad translation.

Though now I'm just curious. We were jacking around with various translations listed on this page: https://www.cms.gov/CCIIO/Resources/Regulations-and-Guidance/Downloads/Appendix-B-Sample-Translated-Taglines.pdf

We can copy the text from the PDF and paste it into Word. Aside from the RTL/LTR flow, it looks like some of the words are "elongated(?)". It's like a large space was inserted between two characters. I wonder if that actually changes the meaning. I suppose it could be a font change, like italicizing a word in English changes the look more than the meaning (though Christine does mean something different from Christine).

So if your flatmates have any insight into this, I'm curious.

Copying the text into Libre Write didn't produce any of the large spaces you describe. Anyway, my flatmate reports that the Arabic part is well written and doesn't change with copypasting.
I'll ask the Iranian guy as soon as he comes home, but no white spaces here either.

As a totally unsolicited criticism, I would amend the Italian translation to:

General Tagline:
Se tu o qualcuno che stai aiutando avete domande su [insert SBM program name], hai avete il diritto di ottenere aiuto e informazioni nella tua vostra lingua gratuitamente. Per parlare con un interprete, puoi potete chiamare [insert number here].
Tagline for Notices:
Questo avviso contiene informazioni importanti sulla tua domanda o copertura attraverso [insert SBM program name].
Cerca le date chiave in questo avviso. Potrebbe essere necessario un tuo intervento entro una scadenza determinata per consentirti di mantenere la tua copertura sanitaria o sovvenzione. Hai il diritto di ottenere queste informazioni e assistenza nella tua lingua gratuitamente. Chiama [insert number here].

It's not bad, but not extremely clear either. I had to check the Norwegian, Arabic, and Spanish ones to understand that we were talking about a health insurance. (may or may not be a problem, is fixed by "sanitaria" above - the other fix is a matter of grammar, but the original conveyed the meaning just fine).

[Kirian]

A group of teenagers at a convention who think CAH is edgy and original.

I thought you meant Cyanide and Happiness, and didn't understand the hate (although I'll admit it's very hit-and-miss).

Very, very hit-and-miss.  I suspect their new CAH clone will be about as interesting a game as CAH, i.e., I'd prefer to be stabbed in the balls than play it.

[Donald X.]

Very, very hit-and-miss.  I suspect their new CAH clone will be about as interesting a game as CAH, i.e., I'd prefer to be stabbed in the balls than play it.

Until there's a bracket comparing the options though, it's hard to say for sure.

[Darth Vader]

Star Wars Movie Bracket

[1] The Empire Strikes Back
[8] Star Wars Holiday Special

[2] A New Hope
[7] Attack of The Clones

[3] The Force Awakens
[6] The Phantom Menace

[4] Return of The Jedi
[5] Revenge of The Sith

[Roadrunner7671]

8 7 6 5
I think you seeded this incorrectly.

[ConMan]

Browsing random articles on the wiki, I learned that the Spanish for a female explorer is Exploradora. And considering that Dora the Explorer speaks Spanish ... *mind blown*

Also amusingly, the Italian name for Explorer is Avventuriero, because they used Esploratore for Adventurer.

[silverspawn]

I'm already bothered by what will the the results

1 7 3 5

[jsh357]

Star Wars Movie Bracket

[1] The Empire Strikes Back
[8] Star Wars Holiday Special

[2] A New Hope
[7] Attack of The Clones

[3] The Force Awakens
[6] The Phantom Menace

[4] Return of The Jedi
[5] Revenge of The Sith

1 2 3 4

[Awaclus]

I'll vote for 3 because of Videocopilot Saber. I don't have a particular preference regarding the others because I'm not aware if any of the plugins I use were inspired by them.

[Teproc]

1234

Really the only matchup that has any suspense in TFA vs ROJ.

Which shouldn't even happen actually, normally your bracket should not have 1 meet 2 before the finals.

[Kuildeous]

I'm also going with 1234. I paused a little bit when comparing Jedi to Sith. Jedi was a decent movie, but it had silliness abound (Ewoks, Tarzan yell, two(!) burp jokes). Still, it was better done than Sith, though I might concede that it barely does that. Sith could have done a better job of setting up the story, but it wasn't terrible.

Poor Christmas special.

[Witherweaver]

[1] The Empire Strikes Back
[8] Star Wars Holiday Special

[2] A New Hope
[7] Attack of The Clones

[3] The Force Awakens
[6] The Phantom Menace

[4] Return of The Jedi
[5] Revenge of The Sith


That's an unfortunate lineup.  Attack of the Clones ranked too low; Jedi vs. Sith is tough; Jedi has flaws, but the final fight scene between Luke and Vader is awesome, and far overshadows the lava prancing that Anakin and Obi-Wan do.  I don't know; I could go either way.

[Polk5440]

Probably a long shot, but does anyone here read Arabic or Persian-Farsi fluently?

I don't myself, but two of my flatmates speak each of them as first or second languages. May they be of help?

Now that you mention it, I have a similar request. I have a one-page hand written letter (really, about three sentences) that I would like translated out of curiosity. I think it's Arabic. I'll PM it to you if you think they are up for it.

[Haddock]

Unrelated: I just added myself to the members map! Had no idea that was a thing.  Saddeningly few Brits, but ah well. Technically I'm just as much a New Zealander as a British anyway.

[Kirian]

Browsing random articles on the wiki, I learned that the Spanish for a female explorer is Exploradora. And considering that Dora the Explorer speaks Spanish ... *mind blown*

Also amusingly, the Italian name for Explorer is Avventuriero, because they used Esploratore for Adventurer.

The word "exploradora" actually appears in her theme song.

[LastFootnote]

I suspect their new CAH clone will be about as interesting a game as CAH, i.e., I'd prefer to be stabbed in the balls than play it.

Forgive me for asking, but have you actually played Cards Against Humanity? I mean probably you have; the reason I ask is that my first exposure to the game was trying to play a different game near a rowdy group of CAH players, and holy crap was that annoying. But then after actually playing it myself I found that enjoy it a lot. With the right group, obviously. Some of the cards are really lowbrow, which I don't personally find amusing, but enough of the cards/combinations are funny to make up for it. It blows Apples to Apples out of the water, for better or worse.

[Witherweaver]

I suspect their new CAH clone will be about as interesting a game as CAH, i.e., I'd prefer to be stabbed in the balls than play it.

Forgive me for asking, but have you actually played Cards Against Humanity? I mean probably you have; the reason I ask is that my first exposure to the game was trying to play a different game near a rowdy group of CAH players, and holy crap was that annoying. But then after actually playing it myself I found that enjoy it a lot. With the right group, obviously. Some of the cards are really lowbrow, which I don't personally find amusing, but enough of the cards/combinations are funny to make up for it. It blows Apples to Apples out of the water, for better or worse.

I've had much better experience with Apples to Apples.  It depends a lot on the group.  I played Cards Against Humanity with a group of people that laughed at all the stupid unfunny stuff and didn't find any of the funny things funny.  During my turn, I kept having to choose from a collection of stupid unapplicable choices that were primary there because they had some kind of 'dirty word' in them.  I got bored really easily.

I've always had more fun with Apples to Apples.  It feels like you can be more creative there.

[Seprix]

Apples to Apples is just way better, at least to me, for the reasons Witherweaver said. I like clever things, and "She said poop" isn't all that funny to me.

[Kuildeous]

I've had much better experience with Apples to Apples.  It depends a lot on the group.

Truth. It does depend on the group and what their level of humor is at. I find myself passing on playing CAH and A2A because I didn't want to deal with the group. If it's a witty group, then I'm on board.

I like the structure of CAH where you are filling in blanks for sentences. With A2A, it's mostly word association. That can be funny (I was rather pleased with playing Joan of Arc for Sultry, though the judge didn't get it *shrug*). I like to try to be clever in my card choice. For that reason, I actually cheer at Pick 2 or Pick 3 in CAH. It allows me to get rid of those boring cards when they're paired up with other boring cards.

And the boring cards are what make CAH worse. Some cards are simply more excitable than others. Hell, you can read off some of the cards without any context and be guaranteed a snort from someone. A2A doesn't really have that. All cards are homogenously boring. So for that reason, A2A requires greater thought when hooking up a noun with an adjective. Meanwhile, in CAH, if the judge is the type to start busting out laughing at unicorn-humping, then your carefully chosen card probably won't get picked because unicorn-humping.

I like CAH, but I only like it with the right group. Otherwise, I tolerate it. It's fun, but I'm all for ending the game early.

[Witherweaver]

I've had much better experience with Apples to Apples.  It depends a lot on the group.

Truth. It does depend on the group and what their level of humor is at. I find myself passing on playing CAH and A2A because I didn't want to deal with the group. If it's a witty group, then I'm on board.

I like the structure of CAH where you are filling in blanks for sentences. With A2A, it's mostly word association. That can be funny (I was rather pleased with playing Joan of Arc for Sultry, though the judge didn't get it *shrug*). I like to try to be clever in my card choice. For that reason, I actually cheer at Pick 2 or Pick 3 in CAH. It allows me to get rid of those boring cards when they're paired up with other boring cards.

And the boring cards are what make CAH worse. Some cards are simply more excitable than others. Hell, you can read off some of the cards without any context and be guaranteed a snort from someone. A2A doesn't really have that. All cards are homogenously boring. So for that reason, A2A requires greater thought when hooking up a noun with an adjective. Meanwhile, in CAH, if the judge is the type to start busting out laughing at unicorn-humping, then your carefully chosen card probably won't get picked because unicorn-humping.

I like CAH, but I only like it with the right group. Otherwise, I tolerate it. It's fun, but I'm all for ending the game early.

Agree.  I think this is what makes Apples to Apples a better game; the player actually provides the humor and content.  Cards Against Humanity wants to be that, but it's actually worse equipped to do so.

[J Reggie]

I get bored really fast with the pick-a-card-to-associate-with-another-card-and-the-best-one-wins games. Sometimes, I use alternate playing methods, such as drawing from the discarded cards. One time, I played "Martha Stewart" in A2A 10 times in a row before anyone noticed. I still have that card in my wallet,  behind my ID. Some people might get mad at this, but we all ended up laughing in the end, as far as I remember.

[jsh357]

When people want to play those games I suggest instead a categories game we sort of invented (I'm sure it already exists). We go around in a circle. When it is your turn, you name a category like "dankest f.ds meme," and everyone else writes their response on a slip of paper. The category namer then shuffles the responses and reads them aloud (lots of laughs, usually) and you go around the circle guessing who wrote each response. We haven't played with scoring, but it's easy enough. It's a way more entertaining game than a2a or cah and requires fewer materials.

[Awaclus]

CAH is a great game, but the original decks tend to be super boring on their own. As long as you combine them with someone's (good) custom made deck which is relevant to everyone's interests, it's super good.

[Accatitippi]

Browsing random articles on the wiki, I learned that the Spanish for a female explorer is Exploradora. And considering that Dora the Explorer speaks Spanish ... *mind blown*

Also amusingly, the Italian name for Explorer is Avventuriero, because they used Esploratore for Adventurer.

Yeah, that one bothers me a lot. You all complain about mine, the Germans about Bakeress, but believe me, that's nothing. 

[Seprix]

Happy Birthday to me.

[silverspawn]

Happy Birthday to me.

To you too!

[Awaclus]

Happy Birthday to me.

Happy birthday! Also, cool cake in the profile.

[Seprix]

Happy Birthday to me.

Happy birthday! Also, cool cake in the profile.

It's not a real cake. It's virtual. You could even say that the cake is a lie.

[Tables]

This country's fate lies in the balance. On the 23rd of June the peoples of Britain will gather to decide the fate of the UK in Europe. At this crucial time I beg my friends and acquaintances to vote in the only logical direction.
The way this issue is classically presented is as a binary: Brexit or Bremain. I'd like to suggest this as wrong. Consider the following position: Brinvade.

Yes, kinsfolk, that's right, I said it. I believe it is time that Britain reclaims its sovereignty, and everyone else's. After all, we're both stronger together and need to be the captains of our own destiny. Therefore, it is clear that the only way to reconcile these differences is to march our emperor, Julius Cameron, all the way to Brussels and to sit him upon the throne, iron or otherwise.

The EU parliament is corrupt? Yes, and that is why we shall put an emperor in charge who's known for his benevolence and integrity.

Britain won't have the bargaining power? It will if we control all of Europe.

So, friends, I beseech you, join me on the 23rd as we storm the beaches of Normandy as liberators of the European peoples from the clawing talons of the EU-minati.

(Disclaimer: I stole this from a friends FB wall, and don't know if he stole it from elsewhere.)

[Seprix]

I live in America, but it looks like it'd be shit to be in the EU.

[yuma]

So, friends, I beseech you, join me on the 23rd as we storm the beaches of Normandy as liberators of the European peoples from the clawing talons of the EU-minati.

There is an HBO plot-line in there somewhere... Mash-up of House of Cards and Game of Thrones and Downton Abbey.

[Accatitippi]

I live in America, but it looks like it'd be shit to be in the EU.

Well, I can only say that the feeling is reciprocal 

[Joseph2302]

I live in America, but it looks like it'd be shit to be in the EU.

Well, I can only say that the feeling is reciprocal 

The EU is shit, but being out of it is probably even shitter.

[eHalcyon]

This country's fate lies in the balance. On the 23rd of June the peoples of Britain will gather to decide the fate of the UK in Europe. At this crucial time I beg my friends and acquaintances to vote in the only logical direction.
The way this issue is classically presented is as a binary: Brexit or Bremain. I'd like to suggest this as wrong. Consider the following position: Brinvade.

Yes, kinsfolk, that's right, I said it. I believe it is time that Britain reclaims its sovereignty, and everyone else's. After all, we're both stronger together and need to be the captains of our own destiny. Therefore, it is clear that the only way to reconcile these differences is to march our emperor, Julius Cameron, all the way to Brussels and to sit him upon the throne, iron or otherwise.

The EU parliament is corrupt? Yes, and that is why we shall put an emperor in charge who's known for his benevolence and integrity.

Britain won't have the bargaining power? It will if we control all of Europe.

So, friends, I beseech you, join me on the 23rd as we storm the beaches of Normandy as liberators of the European peoples from the clawing talons of the EU-minati.

(Disclaimer: I stole this from a friends FB wall, and don't know if he stole it from elsewhere.)

This is about Eurovision, right?

[Darth Vader]

What does everyone think about Rogue One's teaser trailer?

[2.71828.....]

I like it.

[Teproc]

I still don't understand why anyone watches trailers.

[Kuildeous]

I still don't understand why anyone watches trailers.

I enjoy watching trailers, but if it's for a movie I already want to see, I won't go out of my way to watch the trailer. For example, I haven't seen the Rogue One trailer. There is a 95% chance I'm going to watch it, so why spoil anything? From what I hear, a woman is being cast as not-a-sidekick so there's an uproar from a group that no one likes.

Trailers do serve a good purpose of alerting me to an upcoming movie that I may not have known about. I don't say, "Oh, that's going to be soooo good," because trailers are usually not an accurate representation of the movie. I'll say that it looks promising.

One benefit of trailers is that if the trailer looks dumb to me, then the movie will suck. But that's not always been the case. I passed over Fight Club because the trailers looked like some stupid Van Damme clone. Man, how wrong I was!

And even a dumb trailer can still have just enough cleverness that it could go either way. I was wary of Guardians of the Galaxy, but it had just enough self-awareness of its own camp that it kept my interest. I figured it was going to be incredibly bad or remarkably good. I'm glad it was the former latter.

[ashersky]

I figured it was going to be incredibly bad or remarkably good. I'm glad it was the former.

You are glad it was incredibly bad?

[Awaclus]

I watch trailers of movies that I already know I'm going to watch either way and movies that I have already seen, mostly because I'm a big enough fan of the movie that I want to see all of the material that's available. When I'm a huge fan of something, I watch every trailer multiple times. I don't watch trailers of movies that I don't think I'll ever watch, which is why I haven't seen the trailer of that new Star Wars movie. Very rarely I might watch a trailer to decide whether or not I actually want to watch a movie that I'm already tentatively interested in.

[Teproc]

I still don't understand why anyone watches trailers.

I enjoy watching trailers, but if it's for a movie I already want to see, I won't go out of my way to watch the trailer. For example, I haven't seen the Rogue One trailer. There is a 95% chance I'm going to watch it, so why spoil anything? From what I hear, a woman is being cast as not-a-sidekick so there's an uproar from a group that no one likes.

Trailers do serve a good purpose of alerting me to an upcoming movie that I may not have known about. I don't say, "Oh, that's going to be soooo good," because trailers are usually not an accurate representation of the movie. I'll say that it looks promising.

One benefit of trailers is that if the trailer looks dumb to me, then the movie will suck. But that's not always been the case. I passed over Fight Club because the trailers looked like some stupid Van Damme clone. Man, how wrong I was!

And even a dumb trailer can still have just enough cleverness that it could go either way. I was wary of Guardians of the Galaxy, but it had just enough self-awareness of its own camp that it kept my interest. I figured it was going to be incredibly bad or remarkably good. I'm glad it was the former.

Right. The quality of a trailer has very little to do with the quality of the movie, right ? That's what I think you're saying ?

So why watch them ? All they do is
a) spoil you. Even if not on the plot, on the visuals, on jokes, on specific lines, specific shots etc.
b) set up false expectations. Not only with regards to quality, but also tone : for example Crimson Peak apparently had a trailer selling it as straight horror when it's more gothic romance with bits of horror.
c) Potentially make you miss films you might enjoy because the trailer was awful

You know who makes trailers ? It's not filmmakers, that's for sure. So why would it be indicative of anything ?

I guess the "alerting you to films you might not have heard of" is a decent upside, but I rely on critics for that (specific critics, not Rotten Tomatoes).

[Awaclus]

So why watch them ? All they do is
a) spoil you. Even if not on the plot, on the visuals, on jokes, on specific lines, specific shots etc.
b) set up false expectations. Not only with regards to quality, but also tone : for example Crimson Peak apparently had a trailer selling it as straight horror when it's more gothic romance with bits of horror.
c) Potentially make you miss films you might enjoy because the trailer was awful

a) is a great reason to watch trailers, because you'll enjoy the movie more the more familiar you are with it when you see it.
b) is also a great reason to watch trailers, because sometimes it's done on purpose to a great effect.
c) is not a problem if you don't watch trailers of films you haven't decided to watch yet.

[Witherweaver]

I still don't understand why anyone watches trailers.

[Kuildeous]

I figured it was going to be incredibly bad or remarkably good. I'm glad it was the former latter.

You are glad it was incredibly bad?

Goddammit, brain, you had one job.

[Kuildeous]

Right. The quality of a trailer has very little to do with the quality of the movie, right ? That's what I think you're saying ?
 

Not exactly. It's true in some cases (re: Fight Club again). In general, I think that the quality of trailers is going to equal or exceed the quality of the movie. So if it's a really shitty trailer (Paul Blart), then I know to give the movie a pass.

Since the purpose of the trailer is to be good enough to get people into theatres, I have to be careful if a trailer looks really good. It might be for a turd.

I would say that trailers are unnecessary, but that's not really true. It's more accurate to say that I'm not the audience for trailers. The hoi polloi are likely to eat up trailers and base their movie-going experience [citation needed]. So the marketing arm puts so much effort into the trailers to grab those people. Regardless of the trailer, I'll browse the reviews on Rotten Tomatoes to see if it is a movie that'll appeal to me. It works pretty well, though it's disappointed a few times (goddammit, Furious 7). So I'll enjoy watching trailers, but they aren't necessary for me.

And yeah, Crimson Peak was just a mess of a movie anyway. I can't blame marketing for doing that with the trailer, because the movie didn't know which way to go. When presented with elements of gothic horror and Victorian suspense, marketing is going to go with horror because that'll get more butts in seats.

Trailers also did a hatchet job to Terminator 2. I remember when that movie came out, all the buzz was about how Arnold is the good guy this time. That's too bad, because the movie was filmed with the right level of suspense. Arnold did not present himself as the good guy until the fight in the mall. In fact, if the filmmakers didn't show the T-1000 murdering people, they really could have lulled us into one mindset and then skullfucked our perception of who's good and who's bad. But marketing was apparently afraid that a mere sequel wouldn't be enough to draw in people (they're not wrong), so they hyped up the Arnold factor. And this was before the WWW, so word of mouth was more limited.

I think the best trailer was for the Matrix. When that movie came out, I didn't know what to expect. They were really tight-lipped about what the Matrix was about. But it generated enough excitement to get people to go see it.

[silverspawn]

Right. The quality of a trailer has very little to do with the quality of the movie, right ? That's what I think you're saying ?
 

Not exactly. It's true in some cases (re: Fight Club again). In general, I think that the quality of trailers is going to equal or exceed the quality of the movie.

I have not had similar experiences. Lucky # Slevin, for example, had a trailer that played it up as a generic hitman movie; the trailer for Being John Malkovich that I've seen played it up as a generic Comedy. I wouldn't have watched either one based on the trailer, and they're two of my favorite movies. Just two examples. I'd say the quality of a trailer has next to nothing to do with the quality of the film.

[Witherweaver]

Trailers tend to give you an idea of the general mood and feel of a movie.  You have to accept conclusions may be inaccurate.  Sometimes marketing campaigns misappropraite plots and premises (anyone remember the trailers for The Fellowship of the Ring that seemed to promote Arwen as a huge (if not the main) part of the story?  (Something like 'one woman's courage...' showign scenes of her rushing Frodo to Rivendell for treatment of the wound from Weathertop.)

Anyway, what I get from trailers is more than a feel.  Rogue One looks promising. 

Plus, sometimes you learn about things you wouldn't have heard of before.  I hadn't ever heard of David Foster Wallace before seeing The End of the Tour trailer, and it made me want to see the movie and look into the story.  In other news, I just saw The End of the Tour, and it was really good.  Makes me want to read Wallace's books.

[Awaclus]

Someone just gave me a +1 and then removed it.

[Darth Vader]

Someone just gave me a +1 and then removed it.

They say I'm pretty evil.

[KingZog3]

Someone just gave me a +1 and then removed it.

I think this comment has +40 respect, but everyone took them away.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Trailers tend to give you an idea of the general mood and feel of a movie.  You have to accept conclusions may be inaccurate.  Sometimes marketing campaigns misappropraite plots and premises (anyone remember the trailers for The Fellowship of the Ring that seemed to promote Arwen as a huge (if not the main) part of the story?  (Something like 'one woman's courage...' showign scenes of her rushing Frodo to Rivendell for treatment of the wound from Weathertop.)

Anyway, what I get from trailers is more than a feel.  Rogue One looks promising. 

Plus, sometimes you learn about things you wouldn't have heard of before.  I hadn't ever heard of David Foster Wallace before seeing The End of the Tour trailer, and it made me want to see the movie and look into the story.  In other news, I just saw The End of the Tour, and it was really good.  Makes me want to read Wallace's books.

There was a point where I was legit using Infinite Jest as a doorstop.

[Witherweaver]

http://motherfuckingwebsite.com/

[eHalcyon]

[Seprix]

That's not Godwin's Law!

[eHalcyon]

That's not Godwin's Law!

Part of the joke.

[silverspawn]

I thought that was intentional from Seprix. The ! gives it away, I believe.

[Seprix]

I thought that was intentional from Seprix

I guess I wasn't sarcastic enough. Maybe if I did more correcting to the extreme, but then there goes the brevity of the joke. I just can't win.

[silverspawn]

GAAH every time I read an of instead of a have I get so mad

[Awaclus]

GAAH every time I read an of instead of a have I get so mad

Man, I totally agree! Have a upvote!

EDIT: Also, I must of read that totally wrong on my first try!

[liopoil]

GAAH every time I read an of instead of a have I get so mad

I read your post like this and it still made sense and I agreed.

[Kuildeous]

GAAH every time I read an of instead of a have I get so mad

It's "could have", not "could of."

There could of course be exceptions.

[Seprix]

GAAH every time I read an of instead of a have I get so mad

I can't read this for the life of me. I've tried periodically all day.

[pacovf]

That's something that drives me totally crazy too. It feels like non-native speakers are bothered by it more often than native speakers?

[ConMan]

GAAH every time I read an of instead of a have I get so mad

I can't read this for the life of me. I've tried periodically all day.

It would probably help to have a little punctuation first:

GAAH. Every time I read an "of" instead of a "have" I get so mad.

So in other words, ss is getting annoyed that people are using the word "of" where the correct word is "have", presumably in phrases like "I could have done this" or "You should have done that". And I agree that as someone who tries to avoid grammatical errors it's annoying.

[Titandrake]

GAAH every time I read an of instead of a have I get so mad

I can't read this for the life of me. I've tried periodically all day.

GAAH every time I read an "of" instead of a "have" I get so mad

This bothers me too, but not by a lot. My brain adjusts "could of" to "could've" fast enough for me to let it go.

PPE: I've been ninjaed...by the ConMan. Quick, someone write a film noir story.

[Seprix]

Quick, someone write a film noir story.

Yes sir.

Titandrake sat in his office, smoking in the dark, waiting. The soft glow of the cigarette illuminated the pistol on his cluttered desk. A sudden knock startles Titandrake.
"Come in," he mumbles. The door opens, letting in the light, temporarily blinding Tidandrake. He could barely make out the glowing figure, but surely it must be some hot femme fatale who would surely lead Titandrake to his doom. He was wrong.

A ninja stood at the door, a sword drawn. Titandrake rushed for his weapon, but it was already too late. The ninja cut down Titandrake.
"You thought I was some hot deadly woman," the ninja said. "You thought wrong. I am a con man, who is also a ninja." Titandrake was bleeding heavily, gasping on the floor.
"Y-you... ConMan!"
"You should of been prepared."
"...Should have..."
Enraged, the Con Man Ninja slays TitanDrake.

...And that is how Titandrake got ninja'd by a Con Man, film noir style.

[Kuildeous]

Still a better love story than Twilight.

[Tables]

Godwins Law actually states that in an online argument, the person who first compares their opposition to Hitler is indistinguishable from satire.

[Seprix]

Godwins Law actually states that in an online argument, the person who first compares their opposition to Hitler is indistinguishable from satire.

I can't tell if you're serious or not.

[silverspawn]

Godwins Law actually states that in an online argument, the person who first compares their opposition to Hitler is indistinguishable from satire.

sounds like a rightwing conspiracy to me.

[pacovf]

Inconsistent verb tenses. 2/5.

[Seprix]

Inconsistent verb tenses. 2/5.

That was on purpose...

[Witherweaver]

Godwins Law actually states that in an online argument, the person who first compares their opposition to Hitler is indistinguishable from satire.

I can't tell if you're serious or not.

Hitler had the same problem.

[Kuildeous]

Godwins Law actually states that in an online argument, the person who first compares their opposition to Hitler is indistinguishable from satire.

I can't tell if you're serious or not.

Then you're a poe judge of character.

[silverspawn]

Godwins Law actually states that in an online argument, the person who first compares their opposition to Hitler is indistinguishable from satire.

I can't tell if you're serious or not.

Then you're a poe judge of character.

Help! I need someone to explain the joke for me.

[Titandrake]

Godwins Law actually states that in an online argument, the person who first compares their opposition to Hitler is indistinguishable from satire.

I can't tell if you're serious or not.

Then you're a poe judge of character.

Help! I need someone to explain the joke for me.

[Seprix]

Don't post that! Ashersky will get mad you used anything from Nathan Fillion.

[LastFootnote]

So in other words, ss is getting annoyed that people are using the word "of" where the correct word is "have", presumably in phrases like "I could have done this" or "You should have done that". And I agree that as someone who tries to avoid grammatical errors it's annoying.

Everybody knows it's "coulda" and "shoulda".

[Kuildeous]

So there's a website for Chief Learning Officer. It involves media. So naturally, it has a website called:
http://www.clomedia.com/

I nearly spat out my drink when I read that URL in my head.

[ashersky]

Don't post that! Ashersky will get mad you used anything from Nathan Fillion.

This is from that interview where Fillion is asked why anyone likes Firefly, and he had no answer, right?

[Awaclus]

This is from that interview where Fillion is asked why anyone likes Firefly, and he had no answer, right?

I like Firefly because it was by far the best designed tank during WWII.

[singletee]

So there's a website for Chief Learning Officer. It involves media. So naturally, it has a website called:
http://www.clomedia.com/

I nearly spat out my drink when I read that URL in my head.

See Ell Oh Media. Cloh Media. Cloh me, dear?

I don't get it.

[pacovf]

Chlamydia

[ashersky]

So there's a website for Chief Learning Officer. It involves media. So naturally, it has a website called:
http://www.clomedia.com/

I nearly spat out my drink when I read that URL in my head.

See Ell Oh Media. Cloh Media. Cloh me, dear?

I don't get it.

That's for the best.

[Kirian]

Man, Boite a Jeux is a serious pain in the ass compared to BGA.

[Haddock]

Don't post that! Ashersky will get mad you used anything from Nathan Fillion.

This is from that interview where Fillion is asked why anyone likes Firefly, and he had no answer, right?

Pretty sure this is from Castle.
...and Firefly is awesome, shut your face.   : P

[ConMan]

Quick, someone write a film noir story.

Yes sir.

Titandrake sat in his office, smoking in the dark, waiting. The soft glow of the cigarette illuminated the pistol on his cluttered desk. A sudden knock startles Titandrake.
"Come in," he mumbles. The door opens, letting in the light, temporarily blinding Tidandrake. He could barely make out the glowing figure, but surely it must be some hot femme fatale who would surely lead Titandrake to his doom. He was wrong.

A ninja stood at the door, a sword drawn. Titandrake rushed for his weapon, but it was already too late. The ninja cut down Titandrake.
"You thought I was some hot deadly woman," the ninja said. "You thought wrong. I am a con man, who is also a ninja." Titandrake was bleeding heavily, gasping on the floor.
"Y-you... ConMan!"
"You should of been prepared."
"...Should have..."
Enraged, the Con Man Ninja slays TitanDrake.

...And that is how Titandrake got ninja'd by a Con Man, film noir style.

I'm pretty sure this is the first time I've appeared in a fic. I'm honoured.

[scott_pilgrim]

I just saw the headline "Parents of Boys Missing at Sea Battle Over iPhone Discovered on Boat", and I'm fascinated by how many ways you can interpret it.

When I first read it, I thought the boys were missing at a sea battle.  After rereading it, I decided battle was a verb.  Okay, so the parents are battling.  They're battling over iPhone...does that mean they're having a battle via iPhone, or they're battling to decide the ownership of the iPhone?  And who/what was discovered on the boat?  Was it the iPhone, the boys, or the parents?  Or was it the sea battle?

Parents of (boys missing at sea) battle over (iPhone discovered on boat)
Parents of (boys missing at sea) battle over iPhone, and then are discovered on boat
Parents of (boys missing at "sea battle"), over iPhone, are discovered on boat
Parents of (boys missing at ("sea battle" over iPhone)) discovered on boat
Parents of (boys missing at ("sea battle" over (iPhone discovered on boat)))
Parents of (boys missing at ("sea battle" over iPhone) discovered on boat)
Parents of (boys missing at (("sea battle" over iPhone) discovered on boat))

[Awaclus]

This was the most intuitive way to parse it to me:

Parents of (Boys Missing at Sea Battle) Over (iPhone Discovered on Boat)

[ashersky]

This was the most intuitive way to parse it to me:

Parents of (Boys Missing at Sea Battle) Over (iPhone Discovered on Boat)

I assume it is actually:

Parents of (Boys Missing at Sea) Battle Over (iPhone Discovered on Boat)

Incredibly, the boat and iPhone must have been found, so the boys went overboard?

[eHalcyon]

This was the most intuitive way to parse it to me:

Parents of (Boys Missing at Sea Battle) Over (iPhone Discovered on Boat)

I don't understand how this or the  "sea battle" interpretations make much sense.  Parsing it that way leaves the headline without a verb.  What is the meaning you guys are reading into that?

Edit: Should have read scott's more carefully since they add punctuation, but they all seem far more awkward constructions than the very first one which ashersky also highlighted.  I guess headlines are often awkward though.  Then again, I don't think they tend to omit important commas.

[Awaclus]

This was the most intuitive way to parse it to me:

Parents of (Boys Missing at Sea Battle) Over (iPhone Discovered on Boat)

I don't understand how this or the  "sea battle" interpretations make much sense.  Parsing it that way leaves the headline without a verb.  What is the meaning you guys are reading into that?

Edit: Should have read scott's more carefully since they add punctuation, but they all seem far more awkward constructions than the very first one which ashersky also highlighted.  I guess headlines are often awkward though.  Then again, I don't think they tend to omit important commas.

This is a "sea battle" interpretation. There are boys missing at sea battle. And then there's an iPhone discovered on boat. The article is (presumably a picture of) the parents of those boys (being) over that iPhone.

[Seprix]

The parents could be over a phone owned by boys lost in a sea battle.
The parents could be battling over a phone owned by boys lost at sea.
The boys could be lost at Sea Battle, the place.

That is really incredible headline. Like, why can't the parents share the darn phone anyways?

[eHalcyon]

This was the most intuitive way to parse it to me:

Parents of (Boys Missing at Sea Battle) Over (iPhone Discovered on Boat)

I don't understand how this or the  "sea battle" interpretations make much sense.  Parsing it that way leaves the headline without a verb.  What is the meaning you guys are reading into that?

Edit: Should have read scott's more carefully since they add punctuation, but they all seem far more awkward constructions than the very first one which ashersky also highlighted.  I guess headlines are often awkward though.  Then again, I don't think they tend to omit important commas.

This is a "sea battle" interpretation. There are boys missing at sea battle. And then there's an iPhone discovered on boat. The article is (presumably a picture of) the parents of those boys (being) over that iPhone.

That makes sense for a picture caption, sure, but not a headline.

[Awaclus]

That makes sense for a picture caption, sure, but not a headline.

Aren't a lot of headlines just picture captions anyway?

[eHalcyon]

That makes sense for a picture caption, sure, but not a headline.

Aren't a lot of headlines just picture captions anyway?

Not from what I've read, but maybe it's a regional thing?

[Kirian]

That makes sense for a picture caption, sure, but not a headline.

Aren't a lot of headlines just picture captions anyway?

At the Onion, perhaps.  Or the NY Post.

[Awaclus]

That makes sense for a picture caption, sure, but not a headline.

Aren't a lot of headlines just picture captions anyway?

Not from what I've read, but maybe it's a regional thing?

Headlines with no verbs in them (even going to great lengths to omit any verbs that totally should be there) are extremely commonplace in Finland, especially on the more sensational releases. Here's an example, translated as faithfully as I possibly could, from Ilta-Sanomat: "Prince no last will - an enormous inheritance dispute in the offing, a terrifying disappointment to sister".

[eHalcyon]

That makes sense for a picture caption, sure, but not a headline.

Aren't a lot of headlines just picture captions anyway?

Not from what I've read, but maybe it's a regional thing?

Headlines with no verbs in them (even going to great lengths to omit any verbs that totally should be there) are extremely commonplace in Finland, especially on the more sensational releases. Here's an example, translated as faithfully as I possibly could, from Ilta-Sanomat: "Prince no last will - an enormous inheritance dispute in the offing, a terrifying disappointment to sister".

Thinking on it further, I think it's the mundanity of the event rather than the lack of a verb that makes me decide against it as a plausible interpretation.  I mean, "Oil Spill on BC Coast" would make sense as a headline to me.  But "People Near Phone" doesn't, even if you qualify it with why the people or the phone might be somewhat interesting.

[Awaclus]

Thinking on it further, I think it's the mundanity of the event rather than the lack of a verb that makes me decide against it as a plausible interpretation.  I mean, "Oil Spill on BC Coast" would make sense as a headline to me.  But "People Near Phone" doesn't, even if you qualify it with why the people or the phone might be somewhat interesting.

But then...


who was phone?

[Tables]

Thinking on it further, I think it's the mundanity of the event rather than the lack of a verb that makes me decide against it as a plausible interpretation.  I mean, "Oil Spill on BC Coast" would make sense as a headline to me.  But "People Near Phone" doesn't, even if you qualify it with why the people or the phone might be somewhat interesting.

But then...


who was phone?

            moat       

[Donald X.]

It's a garden path sentence. The horse raced past the barn fell.

[Titandrake]

I just realized what Infthitbox's avatar is. I've seen that GIF before, but it didn't click until now.

[Seprix]

My MF rating has gone from 4000 to 3500 in just two days, mostly due to the game constantly freezing mid-load. It's infuriating. I don't know where I'd be on the rating, but I can't get past 4000 because of these constant freezes, and it's been this way for months now. I probably shouldn't be caring about my rating as much as I do, but it ticks me off. It's a Mac computer only issue.

[Accatitippi]

My MF rating has gone from 4000 to 3500 in just two days, mostly due to the game constantly freezing mid-load. It's infuriating. I don't know where I'd be on the rating, but I can't get past 4000 because of these constant freezes, and it's been this way for months now. I probably shouldn't be caring about my rating as much as I do, but it ticks me off. It's a Mac computer only issue.

I've had the same problems, but mostly because I've been playing awfully lately.
My windows client freezes quite often, but I've found that if I wait about 30'' it sometimes recovers, and usually my opponent is still there.

I suspect it might be related to my graphic driver/board.

[Seprix]

My MF rating has gone from 4000 to 3500 in just two days, mostly due to the game constantly freezing mid-load. It's infuriating. I don't know where I'd be on the rating, but I can't get past 4000 because of these constant freezes, and it's been this way for months now. I probably shouldn't be caring about my rating as much as I do, but it ticks me off. It's a Mac computer only issue.

I've had the same problems, but mostly because I've been playing awfully lately.
My windows client freezes quite often, but I've found that if I wait about 30'' it sometimes recovers, and usually my opponent is still there.

I suspect it might be related to my graphic driver/board.

I have to win close to 80% of my matches because of the freezing, and I've been losing 50/50 the last couple of days due to careless play, (and playing Iguana Iguana in randoms... He was a god) and the freezing has also been hitting far more often than normal.

It's probably a graphics issue on your part, since it loads eventually. For me, it will never finish loading. It's a Unity bug, at least that's what the devs at MF say. Nothing they can do about it.

[Awaclus]

My MF rating has gone from 4000 to 3500 in just two days, mostly due to the game constantly freezing mid-load. It's infuriating. I don't know where I'd be on the rating, but I can't get past 4000 because of these constant freezes, and it's been this way for months now. I probably shouldn't be caring about my rating as much as I do, but it ticks me off. It's a Mac computer only issue.

I've had the same problems, but mostly because I've been playing awfully lately.
My windows client freezes quite often, but I've found that if I wait about 30'' it sometimes recovers, and usually my opponent is still there.

I suspect it might be related to my graphic driver/board.

I have to win close to 80% of my matches because of the freezing, and I've been losing 50/50 the last couple of days due to careless play, (and playing Iguana Iguana in randoms... He was a god) and the freezing has also been hitting far more often than normal.

It's probably a graphics issue on your part, since it loads eventually. For me, it will never finish loading. It's a Unity bug, at least that's what the devs at MF say. Nothing they can do about it.

Well, eventually your rating will get low enough that you will win close to 80% of your matches.

[Seprix]

Well, eventually your rating will get low enough that you will win close to 80% of your matches.

Logically, but I'm sure my ceiling is a lot higher than 4000.

[Kuildeous]

My MF rating has gone from 4000 to 3500

I too hate it when my motherfucking rating goes down.

[iguanaiguana]

careless play (and playing Iguana Iguana in randoms... He was a god)

You were just playing too fast.

[Seprix]

careless play (and playing Iguana Iguana in randoms... He was a god)

You were just playing too fast.

I do that.

Man, I don't even want to play until this thing gets fixed. I win three games, and then it freezes, now I'm back to square one with my rating.

[Kuildeous]

I happened to discover shortcut keys on the Calculator program in Windows. It's not as thorough or intuitive as I would like, but at least I can type 4Y8 if I need to know four to the eighth power. And I often need to know 1/x, and R does that for me.

It does bug me that Shift+3 is the shortcut key for cubing a number, but Shift+2 is the shortcut key for finding the square root. WTF, Microsoft? Incidentally, squaring a number is Q, but they really should have swapped those two around.

[Mic Qsenoch]

I happened to discover shortcut keys on the Calculator program in Windows. It's not as thorough or intuitive as I would like, but at least I can type 4Y8 if I need to know four to the eighth power. And I often need to know 1/x, and R does that for me.

It does bug me that Shift+3 is the shortcut key for cubing a number, but Shift+2 is the shortcut key for finding the square root. WTF, Microsoft? Incidentally, squaring a number is Q, but they really should have swapped those two around.

Sorry, I think you're posting in the wrong thread. Obviously this should be in the Dominion Online 2017 Features Thread.

[Kuildeous]

I happened to discover shortcut keys on the Calculator program in Windows. It's not as thorough or intuitive as I would like, but at least I can type 4Y8 if I need to know four to the eighth power. And I often need to know 1/x, and R does that for me.

It does bug me that Shift+3 is the shortcut key for cubing a number, but Shift+2 is the shortcut key for finding the square root. WTF, Microsoft? Incidentally, squaring a number is Q, but they really should have swapped those two around.

Sorry, I think you're posting in the wrong thread. Obviously this should be in the Dominion Online 2017 Features Thread.

I was becoming suspicious of the joke during that first page. Now I see what you're getting at.

Although IE9 is getting on my tits. When I download a file from a web page (which I do on a daily basis at work), I am asked in a box if I want to open or save it. In Windows notation, it's Open, but pressing O does not activate the hot key. Why would you underline the letter to indicate that it's a hot key when it's not a hot key? Why, Microsoft?  Whyyyyyyyy?!

[singletee]

I happened to discover shortcut keys on the Calculator program in Windows. It's not as thorough or intuitive as I would like, but at least I can type 4Y8 if I need to know four to the eighth power. And I often need to know 1/x, and R does that for me.

It does bug me that Shift+3 is the shortcut key for cubing a number, but Shift+2 is the shortcut key for finding the square root. WTF, Microsoft? Incidentally, squaring a number is Q, but they really should have swapped those two around.

Sorry, I think you're posting in the wrong thread. Obviously this should be in the Dominion Online 2017 Features Thread.

I was becoming suspicious of the joke during that first page. Now I see what you're getting at.

Although IE9 is getting on my tits. When I download a file from a web page (which I do on a daily basis at work), I am asked in a box if I want to open or save it. In Windows notation, it's Open, but pressing O does not activate the hot key. Why would you underline the letter to indicate that it's a hot key when it's not a hot key? Why, Microsoft?  Whyyyyyyyy?!

I can tell you why the hot key wouldn't work, at least. Suppose you have a website with a game on it where you press O rapidly to shoot the zombies or whatever. Now it pops up the file save dialog while you are spamming the O key. Bam, you've just run a potentially malicious executable. As for why they would underline it, I don't know; perhaps it's an oversight.

[Burning Skull]

Ilia Repin, Refusal of the confession, 1885.

[Kuildeous]

I can tell you why the hot key wouldn't work, at least. Suppose you have a website with a game on it where you press O rapidly to shoot the zombies or whatever. Now it pops up the file save dialog while you are spamming the O key. Bam, you've just run a potentially malicious executable. As for why they would underline it, I don't know; perhaps it's an oversight.

I can understand the former part. It's the latter part that's so inexcusable. Don't tease me with your tarty underlines. I must know that your underscore will deliver when I come calling.

[Witherweaver]

I can tell you why the hot key wouldn't work, at least. Suppose you have a website with a game on it where you press O rapidly to shoot the zombies or whatever. Now it pops up the file save dialog while you are spamming the O key. Bam, you've just run a potentially malicious executable. As for why they would underline it, I don't know; perhaps it's an oversight.

I can understand the former part. It's the latter part that's so inexcusable. Don't tease me with your tarty underlines. I must know that your underscore will deliver when I come calling.

It is clearly underlined to warn you that opening the file could have hazardous and often undesirable consequences to your machine.

[Seprix]

I have watched one too many cringe videos. That video took me to the next level. I'm completely horrified now. It's not funny anymore.

[iguanaiguana]

I left my computer screen on while out of the house and came back to find my computer display had turned sideways. I'm pretty sure my cat walked across the keyboard while I was gone and ended up hitting CTRL + ALT + Right Arrow

[Roadrunner7671]

I left my computer screen on while out of the house and came back to find my computer display had turned sideways. I'm pretty sure my cat walked across the keyboard while I was gone and ended up hitting CTRL + ALT + Right Arrow

Maybe it was your wife!

[iguanaiguana]

I left my computer screen on while out of the house and came back to find my computer display had turned sideways. I'm pretty sure my cat walked across the keyboard while I was gone and ended up hitting CTRL + ALT + Right Arrow

Maybe it was your wife!

Oh yeah because I totally went out on the town and left her alone with my cat ... 

[Roadrunner7671]

I left my computer screen on while out of the house and came back to find my computer display had turned sideways. I'm pretty sure my cat walked across the keyboard while I was gone and ended up hitting CTRL + ALT + Right Arrow

Maybe it was your wife!

Oh yeah because I totally went out on the town and left her alone with my cat ... 

Don't you live in Kansas?

[iguanaiguana]

I left my computer screen on while out of the house and came back to find my computer display had turned sideways. I'm pretty sure my cat walked across the keyboard while I was gone and ended up hitting CTRL + ALT + Right Arrow

Maybe it was your wife!

Oh yeah because I totally went out on the town and left her alone with my cat ... 

Don't you live in Kansas?

I live here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_City,_Missouri

[Roadrunner7671]

I left my computer screen on while out of the house and came back to find my computer display had turned sideways. I'm pretty sure my cat walked across the keyboard while I was gone and ended up hitting CTRL + ALT + Right Arrow

Maybe it was your wife!

Oh yeah because I totally went out on the town and left her alone with my cat ... 

Don't you live in Kansas?

I live here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_City,_Missouri

I can't speak for your wife, but if your cat is nice I'd be happy to stay home and mess with someone's computer.

[Awaclus]

I left my computer screen on while out of the house and came back to find my computer display had turned sideways. I'm pretty sure my cat walked across the keyboard while I was gone and ended up hitting CTRL + ALT + Right Arrow

Maybe it was your wife!

Why would his wife walk across the keyboard?

[Kuildeous]

I live here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_City,_Missouri

First, Chairs, and now there's Iguana who also lives in my city. I really should go out and meet these people.

[Awaclus]

I live here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_City,_Missouri

First, Chairs, and now there's Iguana who also lives in my city. I really should go out and meet these people.

I thought First lived in Illinois.

[Kuildeous]

I live here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_City,_Missouri

First, Chairs, and now there's Iguana who also lives in my city. I really should go out and meet these people.

I thought First lived in Illinois.

I'm a little concerned about First's relationship with Hu, but it's really none of my business who's on top.

[iguanaiguana]

I live here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_City,_Missouri

First, Chairs, and now there's Iguana who also lives in my city. I really should go out and meet these people.

Deadlock also lives here. We should do a dominion game night!

[Kuildeous]

I live here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_City,_Missouri

First, Chairs, and now there's Iguana who also lives in my city. I really should go out and meet these people.

Deadlock also lives here. We should do a dominion game night!

Neat!

I could meet at just about any game shop in KC. I live in downtown, so there are none near me. I suppose I may prefer TableTop the most, but there's not a gaming shop in KC I don't like.

[silverspawn]

googling, typing "everything you need to know about", google offers

cars
weed
deadpool
pregnancy
football
the music business
life
the division
vaping

Nice to know we got priorities.

[yuma]

googling, typing "everything you need to know about", google offers

cars
weed
deadpool
pregnancy
football
the music business
life
the division
vaping

Nice to know we got priorities.

Doesn't google now sort your searches at least partially based off the demographics of the user and the user's location? I think those might be your priorities.

Mine were:

Cars
Weed
Buying a home
Life
science
Excel

[Awaclus]

Cars, weed, deadpool and pregnancy here, too.

[Kuildeous]

Sure, I'll play. This is my work computer, so it doesn't fully reflect my browsing habits.

But it did come up with cars, the election, weed, and snapchat.

No idea where the last one came from. A lot of interest in weed around here. Hmmm.

[pacovf]

Star Wars
Planet Earth
Negative rates
deadpool
cars

Does Google own a car company?

[Teproc]

planet earth
negative rates
appointing a supreme court justice
deadpool
twin flames
cars
pregnancy
weed
football
horses

Those are... interesting ? I didn't know I cared about the Supreme Court that much, and I'm not entirely sure what "twin flames" even means, so... (also, have never smoked weed or ridden a horse).

[2.71828.....]

Why does everyone need to know about weed?

Anyway...weed, cars, deadpool, football, biology

[Kuildeous]

Why does everyone need to know about weed?

If you don't talk to Google users about weed, who will?

[silverspawn]

googling, typing "everything you need to know about", google offers

cars
weed
deadpool
pregnancy
football
the music business
life
the division
vaping

Nice to know we got priorities.

Doesn't google now sort your searches at least partially based off the demographics of the user and the user's location? I think those might be your priorities.

Mine were:

Cars
Weed
Buying a home
Life
science
Excel

I didn't know that, but that's interesting.

[Awaclus]

I didn't know that, but that's interesting.

Not just your location and demographics, but also a lot of other stuff that it can access from your browser (and it can access a metric fuckton of it) and your Google account if you're logged in. I believe if you make a Google search in incognito mode, it should only be taking into account your location, and you can obviously use proxy IPs to see what it would look like from different areas.

[Kirian]

I get cars, college writing, weed, and deadpool.

Perhaps there were popular articles named "Everything You Need to Know About X", at least for cars, weed, and deadpool, which almost all of us seem to have found?

Edit:  I get the same results in a different browser in incognito mode.

[Infthitbox]

Edit:  I get the same results in a different browser in incognito mode.

Of course you do, your IP address didn't change.

[Awaclus]

Edit:  I get the same results in a different browser in incognito mode.

Of course you do, your IP address didn't change.

It's not a given. I get cars, star wars, open innovation forbes and au pair in incognito mode from the same IP that I got cars, weed, deadpool and pregnancy earlier. Your browsing history and your Google account history (if you're logged in, or to a lesser extent if you have been logged in since the last time your browsing history was cleared) also affect the search results and suggestions.

[Witherweaver]

Making Fun's next project?

https://twitter.com/stelian/status/720913927639560194

[Seprix]

Making Fun's next project?

https://twitter.com/stelian/status/720913927639560194

That is the best thing I've seen this week.

[Awaclus]

Man, these kinds of "alternative" news sites never fail to amaze me. Like, what the actual shit.

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2016/01/cern-scientists-break-the-speed-of-light-21-jan-2016-3283624.html

This data is from 2011. In 2012, it was proven to be faulty. In 2016, sites like the one linked above are copying and pasting the text from the original Telegraph article as though it was still relevant.

[Kirian]

Making Fun's next project?

https://twitter.com/stelian/status/720913927639560194

That is the best thing I've seen this week.

Oh, the responses are just brilliant.

[Tables]

Man, these kinds of "alternative" news sites never fail to amaze me. Like, what the actual shit.

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2016/01/cern-scientists-break-the-speed-of-light-21-jan-2016-3283624.html

This data is from 2011. In 2012, it was proven to be faulty. In 2016, sites like the one linked above are copying and pasting the text from the original Telegraph article as though it was still relevant.

I'm not clicking on that link and giving them views, but damn, I love the irony in their name.

[Witherweaver]

Man, these kinds of "alternative" news sites never fail to amaze me. Like, what the actual shit.

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2016/01/cern-scientists-break-the-speed-of-light-21-jan-2016-3283624.html

This data is from 2011. In 2012, it was proven to be faulty. In 2016, sites like the one linked above are copying and pasting the text from the original Telegraph article as though it was still relevant.

I'm not clicking on that link and giving them views, but damn, I love the irony in their name.

Obviously, the 2011 data did prove fatser-than-light travel, but we haven't yet realized it.  In the future we will realize it, and use faster-than-light travel to send back information that validates the test.  Before it is news, indeed.

[Tables]

Oh, also everyone, the fourth of May be with you. Happy Star Trek day!

[Kirian]

Oh, also everyone, the fourth of May be with you. Happy Star Trek day!

Live Long and Carry On.

[Witherweaver]

Oh, also everyone, the fourth of May be with you. Happy Star Trek day!

[silverspawn]

That gif is amazing.

[Witherweaver]

So after getting extremely pissed off after not being able to login to my stupid health insurances website and it taking forever to change my password, I decided to catalogue my username and passwords for all the different work-related access sites in a single file, because that surely sounds safe.  This does not include the username and password used to log into my laptop itself (Windows) which is sometimes, and sometimes not, linked to a number of other programs on my computer (e.g., email), which is sometimes, and sometimes not, linked to a Microsoft Office online account.  The nature of the linking is not, as far as I know, deterministic.  I only know I dread the time of the year where we must change OS passwords, because I basically can't do anything.

So far my file looks like this.  Things that are not in parentheses are literal strings in the file.

(pay statement sytem), (username),  (reminder)
(health insurance site), (slightly different name with a random difference to make remembering it impossible), (reminder)
(investment site), (yet a slightly different username), who the fuck knows?
(time tracking site), (very similar, but not the same, username), who the fucdk knows why the fuck do we have so many god damn mother fucking sites with a million different logins and a million different passwords how in the loving fuck are we supposed to remember all of this god fucking damit mother fucker
(site for goals), some random permutation on the 100 different user names, no fucking clue
support portal, ?, ??
support portal external, ? differnet maybe ?, ??
(internal software site for builds), could really be fucking anything, kill me now
FSA, I really don't know,

There are a few more sites that I haven't put in.

This is only for work-related sites and doesn't include stuff like, other emails, Facebook, bank, credit cards, loans, cable, amazon, google, websites like this, things like Dominion online, other online gaming stuff, transit card, various other websites that you need to create an account but you only ever log on three times a year, etc., etc., etc.

[Seprix]

So after getting extremely pissed off after note being able to login to my stupid health insurances website and it taking forever to change my password, I decided to catalogue my username and passwords for all the different work-related access sites in a single file, because that surely sounds safe.  This does not include the username and password used to log into my laptop itself (Windows) which is sometimes, and sometimes not, linked to a number of other programs on my computer (e.g., email), which is sometimes, and sometimes not, linked to a Microsoft Office online account.  The nature of the linking is not, as far as I know, deterministic.  I only know I dread the time of the year where we must change OS passwords, because I basically can't do anything.

So far my file looks like this.  Things that are not in parentheses are literal strings in the file.

(pay statement sytem), (username),  (reminder)
(health insurance site), (slightly different name with a random difference to make remembering it impossible), (reminder)
(investment site), (yet a slightly different username), who the fuck knows?
(time tracking site), (very similar, but not the same, username), who the fucdk knows why the fuck do we have so many god damn mother fucking sites with a million different logins and a million different passwords how in the loving fuck are we supposed to remember all of this god fucking damit mother fucker
(site for goals), some random permutation on the 100 different user names, no fucking clue
support portal, ?, ??
support portal external, ? differnet maybe ?, ??
(internal software site for builds), could really be fucking anything, kill me now
FSA, I really don't know,

There are a few more sites that I haven't put in.

This is only for work-related sites and doesn't include stuff like, other emails, Facebook, bank, credit cards, loans, cable, amazon, google, websites like this, things like Dominion online, other online gaming stuff, transit card, various other websites that you need to create an account but you only ever log on three times a year, etc., etc., etc.

Dude. Save yourself the headache.

https://lastpass.com/generatepassword.php

[Kuildeous]

I'm tempted to use the same password for all sites, but the password is preceded and/or succeeded by words relevant to the website.

For example, the Yahoo password may be Yahoo Horse Stapler Battery Correct Mail, but the Gmail password would be G Horse Stapler Battery Correct Mail. Still hard as fuck to crack but very relevant to me.

And if the connecting part is already hard to crack, then adding "Mail" would not make it any easier.

The downside, of course, is that if someone finds out your password for Gmail is G Horse Stapler Battery Correct Mail, then it's easy to figure out that your Yahoo password is simply replacing G with Yahoo.

So you'd have to mentally encrypt the bookend words in case your password gets stored as plain text somewhere. *shudder*

[Witherweaver]

Dude. Save yourself the headache.

https://lastpass.com/generatepassword.php

I've always had a problem with this logic... "Don't use the same password for everything, because if someone gets access to that password, then they have access to all your accounts.  Instead, keep all your different passwords locked under one single master pasword..."

[Seprix]

I don't use that service, but I know of people who do. The service also changes the passwords regularly and fills them in for you when you enter in the master password, which is only on your own computer, and not on some website server.

[Teproc]

Isn't the safest way to have a bunch different passwords on a physical notepad ? Yeah someone could rob your house but... that's a lot less likely to happen than getting an account pirated, right ?

[singletee]

If you reuse a password across multiple accounts, that password must be sent to those websites and stored in their databases. If best practices are followed, the password will be sent over an encrypted TLS tunnel and only a salted hash will be stored instead of the password itself. Now it's a matter of how much you trust Joe Websiteoperator to do those things in order to keep your password safe. It turns out that Joe is bad at this. Also, Joe might be evil.

If you use a local password manager, the master password never leaves your computer. The only feasible way for someone to get it would be to install a keylogger on your computer, at which point you might as well just consider all your passwords to be compromised anyway.

[Awaclus]

I've always had a problem with this logic... "Don't use the same password for everything, because if someone gets access to that password, then they have access to all your accounts.  Instead, keep all your different passwords locked under one single master pasword..."

As long as the password is physically on your computer and not stored on a server anywhere, it's way safer. Contrary to popular belief, the main security threat regarding your passwords is not that a human being is able to correctly guess it.

[Seprix]

Isn't the safest way to have a bunch different passwords on a physical notepad ? Yeah someone could rob your house but... that's a lot less likely to happen than getting an account pirated, right ?

You could do that too, and it's probably a little tiny bit safer for a lot of extra pain. Seriously, as Awaclus and Singletee has said, the master password is not used on any website at all. It can be entered off on the side on your computer, but it is only used to unencrypt the password system that is also offline, which enters in the correct randomly generated password for the given website. It's all offline.

[Witherweaver]

I've always had a problem with this logic... "Don't use the same password for everything, because if someone gets access to that password, then they have access to all your accounts.  Instead, keep all your different passwords locked under one single master pasword..."

As long as the password is physically on your computer and not stored on a server anywhere, it's way safer. Contrary to popular belief, the main security threat regarding your passwords is not that a human being is able to correctly guess it.

Well, it's an issue if it's a laptop that could potentially get lost/stolen/etc.

[Seprix]

Well, it's an issue if it's a laptop that could potentially get lost/stolen/etc.

Aren't you screwed regardless then?

[Witherweaver]

Well, it's an issue if it's a laptop that could potentially get lost/stolen/etc.

Aren't you screwed regardless then?

In regards to passwords?  Why?  Can you access keystroke history or something?

[pacovf]

My main question is, why do you have so many different usernames? Aren't you choosing them yourself? Why not stick to two or three of them, each one for different sort of activities?

[Awaclus]

Well, it's an issue if it's a laptop that could potentially get lost/stolen/etc.

Don't lose your laptop.

[singletee]

You don't store the master password on disk, that defeats the purpose of encrypting your passwords.

[Witherweaver]

My main question is, why do you have so many different usernames? Aren't you choosing them yourself? Why not stick to two or three of them, each one for different sort of activities?

No, because these kinds of sites are set up by the company.  It's all based off of your name, but in different incantations.  Sometimes it includes email portions, sometimes not.  Sometimes random characters.  It's like slightly different versions of the same base; but remembering which alteration corresponds to which obscure website that you only may check once a month is a near impossibility.  "Okay this is that site that does this one thing, and this is the one that doesn't use my normal handle but instead does this weird thing.  Oh, that didn't work, maybe wrong password.  No, let's try this password.  Okay this one.  No, okay, let's try the different arbitrary modification of username.  No, maybe this password.  Hey I'm locked out!"

Really, the issue is as much (if not more) with usernames than with passwords.

[Kirian]

As bad a game as Ascension is, playing the app against the AI makes for a nice time-waster, usually while I exercise.

I have now broken the app.  I have several hundred cards in play and it's crawling....

[Seprix]

My level of respect is "LEET", or "1337". I'm pretty awesome now.

[Seprix]

Seprix's Law: If anyone comments about a correlation between a user's respect number and a reference, someone will inevitably upvote it in order to change the number.

[Seprix]

You still initially upvoted that comment, Xerxes.

[Witherweaver]

Seprix's Law: If anyone comments about a correlation between a user's respect number and a reference, someone will inevitably upvote it in order to change the number.

How leho.

[Tables]

I got to play with a VR headset today (HTC Vive I think it was). I have to say I was very surprised by how immersive and realistic it feels. It wasn't perfect, of course, but it worked really well. I was wondering why it hasn't caught on at all yet. And then I remembered it costs just shy of what getting all three current gen consoles would cost, and needs a bunch of space, and has a limited game selection.

I don't imagine VR gaming will eventually replace traditional gaming, but it'll very likely eventually become something alongside them. It could be great fun, once the costs drop.

[Kirian]

I got to play with a VR headset today (HTC Vive I think it was). I have to say I was very surprised by how immersive and realistic it feels. It wasn't perfect, of course, but it worked really well. I was wondering why it hasn't caught on at all yet. And then I remembered it costs just shy of what getting all three next gen consoles would cost, and needs a bunch of space, and has a limited game selection.

I don't imagine VR gaming will eventually replace traditional gaming, but it'll very likely eventually become something alongside them. It could be great fun, once the costs drop.

I got a chance to play with a friend's Vive a couple weeks ago, and can confirm both the awesome realism and the ridiculous price.

That said, at some point in the future someone will release a game where you can play a game like Freespace or Elite Dangerous in VR, and that will be fucking awesome.  Yet it'll be overshadowed by a ton of recycled FPS games.

[blueblimp]

I've always had a problem with this logic... "Don't use the same password for everything, because if someone gets access to that password, then they have access to all your accounts.  Instead, keep all your different passwords locked under one single master pasword..."

As long as the password is physically on your computer and not stored on a server anywhere, it's way safer. Contrary to popular belief, the main security threat regarding your passwords is not that a human being is able to correctly guess it.

Well, it's an issue if it's a laptop that could potentially get lost/stolen/etc.

For laptops with sensitive data, it's a good idea to use drive encryption. (On Windows, it's called BitLocker.)

[eHalcyon]

[LastFootnote]

Looks good to me.

[Watno]

An alternative answer would have been "a number with a 1 in the hundreds place"

[Kuildeous]

Technically correct; the best kind of correct.

[Kuildeous]

Me: Are you still selling six months of Macutab for the price of five?
Receptionist: No, sorry.
Me: Damn, okay, I'll take 6 months anyway.
Receptionist: That'll be $150.
Me: Each month is still $30, right?
Receptionist: Yes.
Me: So it's like it was before?
Receptionist: I suppose so, but no free Macutab this time.
Me: …

[Seprix]

Me: Are you still selling six months of Macutab for the price of five?
Receptionist: No, sorry.
Me: Damn, okay, I'll take 6 months anyway.
Receptionist: That'll be $150.
Me: Each month is still $30, right?
Receptionist: Yes.
Me: So it's like it was before?
Receptionist: I suppose so, but no free Macutab this time.
Me: …

This was great. The level of misunderstanding in this transaction is fantastic. Top kek.

[silverspawn]

... what was he thinking there?

[Awaclus]

Fun fact: before this post, I had exactly 6 posts per day.

[Kirian]

Technically correct; the best kind of correct.

I mean... it's not even "technically" correct.  It's entirely correct.

[Awaclus]

Technically correct; the best kind of correct.

I mean... it's not even "technically" correct.  It's entirely correct.

Well, stuff that's "technically" correct is entirely correct. It just isn't what whoever thought of that question was thinking of.

[eHalcyon]

Technically correct; the best kind of correct.

I mean... it's not even "technically" correct.  It's entirely correct.

Well, stuff that's "technically" correct is entirely correct. It just isn't what whoever thought of that question was thinking of.

Awaclus is technically correct here.

[Kirian]

Of course, another good smart-ass answer would be 162 in the first three slots.

[liopoil]

Of course, another good smart-ass answer would be 162 in the first three slots.

This shows that you actually understand the question and can answer it. The answers in the picture don't demonstrate that the student knows the difference between the places.

[Watno]

Demonstrating that you understood the question kinda defeats the purpose of answering that way though.

[silverspawn]

... what was he thinking there?

I meant that as a real question. What was the misunderstanding? I don't get his thought process.

[Watno]

He thought of it as a price reduction if you take 6 months at once. He didn't realize that the amount the price was reduced was exactly the same as what a single month would cost.

[silverspawn]

So the unreduced 6 months were more expansive than 6 * 1 month? 

[Watno]

So the unreduced 6 months were more expansive than 6 * 1 month? 

No, they cost exactly the same. That's why they're unreduced.

[silverspawn]

ohh I thought 6*30 was 150  okay that makes much more sense. thanks ^-^

[Kuildeous]

... what was he thinking there?

I meant that as a real question. What was the misunderstanding? I don't get his thought process.

To add a little background, I am taking these special vitamins now. When they were first made available to me, the receptionist at the time explained that they were $30 a month, but I could buy 6 months for the cost of 5. Since I have to return to the doctor every 6 months anyway, this was especially useful.

Apparently this new receptionist never thought of it as "Buy 5; get 1 free." I'm not sure how she was envisioning it in her mind, but it clearly did not involve getting a month for free. So then I was quoted the same price as before and realized that it was exactly how I phrased it.

It was also an early-morning appointment, so she may have been marginally awake.

[Seprix]

Look what's trending on Facebook:



How meta.

[Tables]

The memes/inside jokes, they're leaking into my posting on other forums: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/740205-bravely-second-end-layer/73670232/851800080

In case you can't spot it:                           Moat                                    (No, this isn't the meme)

[Burning Skull]

Finally got myself some more or less adequate Internet connection and a notebook after a month with just a phone with terrible coverage issues.

This is going on for about 20 minutes though:


Please oh please don't die on me


Edit:

FUUUUUUUU   
ahhhahaha it launched and started to play it's terrible music super loud and crushed when I tried to turn it off. adorable

[Kuildeous]

Man, attending a redneck party does not mesh well with germaphobic me. The hamburgers and hot dogs plate had no tongs whatsoever. Just grab the meat with your bare hands and hope nobody else touched it first. Someone pointed out there wasn't a fork for the pickle jar, and I saw someone walk by with pickles on his hamburger, so, uh….

We had a cake for our graduating niece. Her boyfriend was enthralled by the hard chocolate decorations on top and kept touching them. I had to remind him that he said he had strep the day before, but he kept feeling the chocolate. I volunteered to serve the cake because I knew what areas weren't touched.

I guess I'm just prissy. In that regard, I probably was better off as an ignorant kid.

[2.71828.....]

Man, attending a redneck party

All I had to read was this first line, and I could basically fill in everything else you said without reading the post

[Seprix]

I'm trying to think of some positives of being a redneck. I can't think of any.

[Kuildeous]

I'm trying to think of some positives of being a redneck. I can't think of any.

They're generally pretty handy. The average redneck can fix way more things better than I could. They might not necessarily be pretty, but they'd be functional.

They can also be generally pretty friendly, though that is likely more a matter of culture. My redneck in-laws are perfectly fine with gay and trans people. On the other hand, I would not go parading my gay cousins near certain other rednecks. 

Being redneck is not inherently bad, but there are many shared qualities with bad people. Being redneck doesn't necessarily mean you build your hamburger with your fingers, but that's certainly the case with this family.

[Seprix]

I think my question is just wrong anyways. Rednecks are a stereotype, you cannot compare all people to one single stereotype.

[liopoil]

What makes someone a redneck? I honestly don't know.

[Awaclus]

What makes someone a redneck? I honestly don't know.

Having a red neck.

[liopoil]

What makes someone a redneck? I honestly don't know.

Having a red neck.

How red? I've never seen anyone with a strangely red neck. I think I know what you're talking about though?

[Tables]

I'm trying to think of some positives of being a redneck. I can't think of any.

Well, it's easier to commit murder since your DNA matches everyone else in the community already anyway.

[Kirian]

I'm trying to think of some positives of being a redneck. I can't think of any.

Well, it's easier to commit murder since your DNA matches everyone else in the community already anyway.

<morbo> DNA DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY. </morbo>

The memes/inside jokes, they're leaking into my posting on other forums: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/740205-bravely-second-end-layer/73670232/851800080

In case you can't spot it:                           Moat                                    (No, this isn't the meme)

Not only can I still not spot it, that entire post made zero sense.  The one at Gamefaqs, that is.  "Bravely Second"?  What the hell kind of game title is that?

[Awaclus]

Not only can I still not spot it, that entire post made zero sense.  The one at Gamefaqs, that is.  "Bravely Second"?  What the hell kind of game title is that?

Looks like spotting it is more skippable than Tables thinks.

[Watno]

So, I'm having a problem with LaTeX/TikZ:
I'm trying to do this: http://tex.stackexchange.com/a/71596/106050. However, if I compile this, the result looks different (see attachment), the circle centers seem to be in the wrong position. I'm trying to ask for help at stackexchange, but it won't let me, since I apparently don't have enough reputation.
Can anyone help me by either telling me why it doesn't work, asking why it doesn't work on stackexchange, or telling me about another way to draw an arc by specifying the two points it connects and the center?

[LastFootnote]

"Bravely Second"?  What the hell kind of game title is that?

It's the sequel to Bravely Default. Duh.

[Tables]

I'm trying to think of some positives of being a redneck. I can't think of any.

Well, it's easier to commit murder since your DNA matches everyone else in the community already anyway.

<morbo> DNA DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY. </morbo>

The memes/inside jokes, they're leaking into my posting on other forums: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/740205-bravely-second-end-layer/73670232/851800080

In case you can't spot it:                           Moat                                    (No, this isn't the meme)

Not only can I still not spot it, that entire post made zero sense.  The one at Gamefaqs, that is.  "Bravely Second"?  What the hell kind of game title is that?

The second game in the Bravely series, of course. It's a fantastic game, well worth a play if you're into RPGs.

Anyway the reference was the 90-93% thing. That's... almost accurate (I think it's actually more like 91.5-94%) but I couldn't help myself.

[faust]

So, I'm having a problem with LaTeX/TikZ:
I'm trying to do this: http://tex.stackexchange.com/a/71596/106050. However, if I compile this, the result looks different (see attachment), the circle centers seem to be in the wrong position. I'm trying to ask for help at stackexchange, but it won't let me, since I apparently don't have enough reputation.
Can anyone help me by either telling me why it doesn't work, asking why it doesn't work on stackexchange, or telling me about another way to draw an arc by specifying the two points it connects and the center?

I tried the code, and it gives me the correct output. Are you sure you didn't change anything about the code?

[Watno]

So, I'm having a problem with LaTeX/TikZ:
I'm trying to do this: http://tex.stackexchange.com/a/71596/106050. However, if I compile this, the result looks different (see attachment), the circle centers seem to be in the wrong position. I'm trying to ask for help at stackexchange, but it won't let me, since I apparently don't have enough reputation.
Can anyone help me by either telling me why it doesn't work, asking why it doesn't work on stackexchange, or telling me about another way to draw an arc by specifying the two points it connects and the center?

I tried the code, and it gives me the correct output. Are you sure you didn't change anything about the code?

it seems to be compiler dependant. For example, this online compiler has the right output, while this one  has the same result as my offline one.

[Seprix]

The Dominion League has started. In my haste to be as efficient and quick as possible with copy/pasting messages regarding the best times to play, I inadvertently sent myself a message.

[Watno]

So, I'm having a problem with LaTeX/TikZ:
I'm trying to do this: http://tex.stackexchange.com/a/71596/106050. However, if I compile this, the result looks different (see attachment), the circle centers seem to be in the wrong position. I'm trying to ask for help at stackexchange, but it won't let me, since I apparently don't have enough reputation.
Can anyone help me by either telling me why it doesn't work, asking why it doesn't work on stackexchange, or telling me about another way to draw an arc by specifying the two points it connects and the center?

I tried the code, and it gives me the correct output. Are you sure you didn't change anything about the code?

What did you compile with? Can you check what version of pgf was used?

[Cuzz]

So, I'm having a problem with LaTeX/TikZ:
I'm trying to do this: http://tex.stackexchange.com/a/71596/106050. However, if I compile this, the result looks different (see attachment), the circle centers seem to be in the wrong position. I'm trying to ask for help at stackexchange, but it won't let me, since I apparently don't have enough reputation.
Can anyone help me by either telling me why it doesn't work, asking why it doesn't work on stackexchange, or telling me about another way to draw an arc by specifying the two points it connects and the center?

If you're interested, Ipe is really fantastic for figures like this and plays very nicely with Latex. My thesis had some horrendously complicated figures that came out looking very nice.  http://ipe.otfried.org/

[ConMan]

I current have exactly 1000 respect!

I think now would be a good time to point out that I have an irrational fear of overly round numbers, and you should all give me respect to get me as far away from this terrifying number as possible.

[Titandrake]

I current have exactly 1000 respect!

I think now would be a good time to point out that I have an irrational fear of overly round numbers, and you should all give me respect to get me as far away from this terrifying number as possible.

Wait, if you gain too much respect you'll reach the other round number 1024.

[ConMan]

It's fine as long as I don't think about binary.

[eHalcyon]

I want to buy a pocket knife but I don't know where to start as far as finding something that's decent quality at a decent price, etc.  Is anybody here a knife enthusiast?

[Kirian]

I want to buy a pocket knife but I don't know where to start as far as finding something that's decent quality at a decent price, etc.  Is anybody here a knife enthusiast?

I am not a knife enthusiast, except that the only pocketknives worth having are Victorinox Swiss Army knives.

[Ichimaru Gin]

I want to buy a pocket knife but I don't know where to start as far as finding something that's decent quality at a decent price, etc.  Is anybody here a knife enthusiast?

Ok. My brother is a knife enthusiast; I have some knowledge from him.
What sort of knife are you looking for?

The Opinel is imo a nice looking, affordable, and generally solid knife. I own one, and I'm very happy with it.

I do think Victorinox is a good company; you probably can't go wrong with them if you want more of the swiss army deal.

The KA-Bar Dozier is another knife I own that is well constructed and affordable. It comes in other colors than orange.

Ones that are a bit more expensive include Spiderco knives. You'd probably do well with any Spiderco knife. The Tenacious is a good one. My brother owns some and is happy with them.

I'm kinda tired, so I think those are a good start. Also, I'm pretty addicted to r/edc which would probably help you with this, even just browsing it. It's the everyday carry subreddit where people post and discuss the items they carry on their person: like knives, flashlights, pens, guns, watches etc. It's probably one of the more nerdy things I do. 

[Teproc]

Can't go wrong with an Opinel.

[eHalcyon]

I want to buy a pocket knife but I don't know where to start as far as finding something that's decent quality at a decent price, etc.  Is anybody here a knife enthusiast?

Ok. My brother is a knife enthusiast; I have some knowledge from him.
What sort of knife are you looking for?

Just general utility, I guess?  I'm not sure if there's something specific I should be looking for, so advice there would be helpful too.  I hadn't really thought of going for swiss army, but there are probably some other tools that would be nice to have on hand.  Always having a pen would be nice... no other tools really come to mind right now, but maybe I should check out what the options are.

[Witherweaver]

[pacovf]

So I've read the books, and I want to follow the show, but I don't really have the time to watch everything. I've seen the first two seasons, any recommendations on where to pick it up?

[Kuildeous]

It's interesting how our experiences can shape perception.

The wife of one of my friends posted a picture of herself. I couldn't help but think of how cocky and smarmy she looked. Then I was thinking that I knew her as cocky and smarmy, so of course her picture looks that way. If I didn't know who she was, how would I view that picture? Would it be neutrally received, or would I still see it?

[Seprix]

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/frbs-mystery-repeating-radio-signals-discovered-emanating-unknown-cosmic-source-1547133

The obvious clickbait here is that it's EXTRATERRESTRIAL LIFE but it's probably just some pulsar or some new star/black hole shooting particles whilst spinning that so happen to be in our direction?

[Tables]

My mum was just watching some crime program (Second Chance I think it was called?) when an in-universe TV report came on saying some people had been murdered and the letters F, D and S had been carved into the victims head.

What the heck have you guys been up to? Murder is NOT the advertising method theory endorses!

[Seprix]

My mum was just watching some crime program (Second Chance I think it was called?) when an in-universe TV report came on saying some people had been murdered and the letters F, D and S had been carved into the victims head.

What the heck have you guys been up to? Murder is NOT the advertising method theory endorses!

But it's what Donald X. endorses.

[Awaclus]

My mum was just watching some crime program (Second Chance I think it was called?) when an in-universe TV report came on saying some people had been murdered and the letters F, D and S had been carved into the victims head.

What the heck have you guys been up to? Murder is NOT the advertising method theory endorses!

Speaking of which, I saw a graffiti that just read "FDS" in Joensuu. I swear it wasn't me who drew it.

[pacovf]

In case you haven't seen it yet.

[Witherweaver]

I was just at this player's party thing, which was like a dance club.  And now I want to kill myself.  So if you don't hear from me for a while, that's probably what happened.

[Seprix]

I was just at this player's party thing, which was like a dance club.  And now I want to kill myself.  So if you don't hear from me for a while, that's probably what happened.

Player as in a male who is adept at manipulating others, or as in a Dominion player?

[Witherweaver]

I was just at this player's party thing, which was like a dance club.  And now I want to kill myself.  So if you don't hear from me for a while, that's probably what happened.

Player as in a male who is adept at manipulating others, or as in a Dominion player?

It was a tournament of the sporting type.  The player's party is for those playing in the tournament.

[Witherweaver]

I guess I didn't kill myself after all.

[Seprix]

I guess I didn't kill myself after all.

That's part of the punchline to my all-time favorite joke.

[Accatitippi]

Right after handing in today's exam, I suddenly realized the reason why my professor used "#" in all his slideshows to mean "different".

It's supposed to be a double-strikethrough equal sign.

[Kuildeous]

Right after handing in today's exam, I suddenly realized the reason why my professor used "#" in all his slideshows to mean "different".

It's supposed to be a double-strikethrough equal sign.

Two slashes? This is strange notation. I always used just one.

[Watno]

Well, the fact that # is on the keyboard is an advantage i guess.

[LostPhoenix]

≠ is just alt =. Simple enough.

[eHalcyon]

≠ is just alt =. Simple enough.

Doesn't work for me...

[LostPhoenix]

≠ is just alt =. Simple enough.

Doesn't work for me...

Must be just for macs

[Seprix]

≠

Mac Master race

[pacovf]

So normally when I go for a run or to the gym, I am tired in a bad way in 15-20 minutes. But I've noticed that on days where I go for burger and fries from a food truck, I can do exercice 4 hours later for 40-50 minutes before feeling exhausted, and even then I feel tired in a good way. Obviously eating burger and fries every other day is not really a good long term solution, so does anybody have good recommendations about what (and when) to eat to get through a workout with a maximum of energy?

I imagine that the basic idea is "carbs", but then what kind? how much? how long before exercising? etc.

[Seprix]

Eat pasta.

[2.71828.....]

I workout in the mornings before I eat anything. I should go to the gym more in the afternoons as well, but I am lazy

[2.71828.....]

Plus, afternoons are my time to waste spend on f.ds. How could I ever productively use waste that time?

[Joseph2302]

Gym is overrated.

[Awaclus]

So normally when I go for a run or to the gym, I am tired in a bad way in 15-20 minutes. But I've noticed that on days where I go for burger and fries from a food truck, I can do exercice 4 hours later for 40-50 minutes before feeling exhausted, and even then I feel tired in a good way. Obviously eating burger and fries every other day is not really a good long term solution, so does anybody have good recommendations about what (and when) to eat to get through a workout with a maximum of energy?

I imagine that the basic idea is "carbs", but then what kind? how much? how long before exercising? etc.

If you already have a healthy diet, I don't think it's a good idea to change it just so you can exercise more. If you don't already have a healthy diet, make it a top priority to have a healthy diet before you worry about exercising. If you run regularly, you should be able to run (lightly) for at least an hour or so without getting tired regardless of what you've eaten that day.

[silverspawn]

just playing my first matches of dominion in several years

game's kind of fun actually

[Awaclus]

just playing my first matches of dominion in several years

game's kind of fun actually

Has it been several years already?

[silverspawn]

dunno, but certainly it feels like it.

[Kuildeous]

Well, the fact that # is on the keyboard is an advantage i guess.

I guess, indeed. I could see this as being an advantage if quickly typing in chat or something. For a PowerPoint, there's no reason the professor couldn't take the effort to type Alt+8800. Or since it's an Office product, he could have inserted the symbol.

At the very least, != and <> are also easily typed from the keyboard and provides a universal use of not equal. They don't send a mixed signal like # does.

In any case, the notation should have been explained early in class and not left for the student to realize after handing in an exam.

[Kuildeous]

just playing my first matches of dominion in several years

game's kind of fun actually

Has it been several years already?

I haven't played Dominion since Adventures came out. Even then, I played a friend's copy, and I think we played two or three games. I'm not even sure I've played all the Guilds cards.

[pacovf]

So normally when I go for a run or to the gym, I am tired in a bad way in 15-20 minutes. But I've noticed that on days where I go for burger and fries from a food truck, I can do exercice 4 hours later for 40-50 minutes before feeling exhausted, and even then I feel tired in a good way. Obviously eating burger and fries every other day is not really a good long term solution, so does anybody have good recommendations about what (and when) to eat to get through a workout with a maximum of energy?

I imagine that the basic idea is "carbs", but then what kind? how much? how long before exercising? etc.

If you already have a healthy diet, I don't think it's a good idea to change it just so you can exercise more. If you don't already have a healthy diet, make it a top priority to have a healthy diet before you worry about exercising. If you run regularly, you should be able to run (lightly) for at least an hour or so without getting tired regardless of what you've eaten that day.

I have never ever been able to run for one hour, not even close. I just don't eat enough, or I have a very high metabolism (probably a mix of both). I don't know what exactly you mean by a healthy diet, but before coming to Canada it was your typical mediterranean fare.

[Awaclus]

I have never ever been able to run for one hour, not even close. I just don't eat enough, or I have a very high metabolism (probably a mix of both). I don't know what exactly you mean by a healthy diet, but before coming to Canada it was your typical mediterranean fare.

I'm trying to get fit enough for the military service I have this summer/fall, and I just avoid sugar, I don't really like foods with too much fat or salt to begin with, and then I just try to go out my way to get enough energy, protein and vitamins (for the record, I'm underweight, that's why I actually need to worry about getting enough energy). I'm under the impression that Mediterranean food is generally pretty healthy but that impression could be super wrong because I don't really know too much about it.

EDIT: Oh yeah and crap tons of water is really essential in case it wasn't already obvious. I need like 2 liters of water for a drum workout of 20ish minutes.

[Witherweaver]

So normally when I go for a run or to the gym, I am tired in a bad way in 15-20 minutes. But I've noticed that on days where I go for burger and fries from a food truck, I can do exercice 4 hours later for 40-50 minutes before feeling exhausted, and even then I feel tired in a good way. Obviously eating burger and fries every other day is not really a good long term solution, so does anybody have good recommendations about what (and when) to eat to get through a workout with a maximum of energy?

I imagine that the basic idea is "carbs", but then what kind? how much? how long before exercising? etc.

I took to primarily eating salads during lunch, with a good amount of protein added (chicken, bacon, sometimes egg, and then also avocado, tomatos, peppers, things like that).  Olive oil and balsamic dressing.  I feel a lot better eating that than, say, Chinese food.

[eHalcyon]

Well, the fact that # is on the keyboard is an advantage i guess.

I guess, indeed. I could see this as being an advantage if quickly typing in chat or something. For a PowerPoint, there's no reason the professor couldn't take the effort to type Alt+8800. Or since it's an Office product, he could have inserted the symbol.

At the very least, != and <> are also easily typed from the keyboard and provides a universal use of not equal. They don't send a mixed signal like # does.

In any case, the notation should have been explained early in class and not left for the student to realize after handing in an exam.

The meaning was explained, but not the reasoning.

[Accatitippi]

Well, the fact that # is on the keyboard is an advantage i guess.

I guess, indeed. I could see this as being an advantage if quickly typing in chat or something. For a PowerPoint, there's no reason the professor couldn't take the effort to type Alt+8800. Or since it's an Office product, he could have inserted the symbol.

At the very least, != and <> are also easily typed from the keyboard and provides a universal use of not equal. They don't send a mixed signal like # does.

In any case, the notation should have been explained early in class and not left for the student to realize after handing in an exam.

The meaning was explained, but not the reasoning.

The meaning was never explicitly explained, but we inferred it easily from the professor's explaination of the slides.

No big deal, but it was a bit annoying.

[eHalcyon]

Well, the fact that # is on the keyboard is an advantage i guess.

I guess, indeed. I could see this as being an advantage if quickly typing in chat or something. For a PowerPoint, there's no reason the professor couldn't take the effort to type Alt+8800. Or since it's an Office product, he could have inserted the symbol.

At the very least, != and <> are also easily typed from the keyboard and provides a universal use of not equal. They don't send a mixed signal like # does.

In any case, the notation should have been explained early in class and not left for the student to realize after handing in an exam.

The meaning was explained, but not the reasoning.

The meaning was never explicitly explained, but we inferred it easily from the professor's explaination of the slides.

No big deal, but it was a bit annoying.

Oh, then Kuildeous is totally right.

[Witherweaver]

##≠≠

[Kirian]

So normally when I go for a run or to the gym, I am tired in a bad way in 15-20 minutes. But I've noticed that on days where I go for burger and fries from a food truck, I can do exercice 4 hours later for 40-50 minutes before feeling exhausted, and even then I feel tired in a good way. Obviously eating burger and fries every other day is not really a good long term solution, so does anybody have good recommendations about what (and when) to eat to get through a workout with a maximum of energy?

I imagine that the basic idea is "carbs", but then what kind? how much? how long before exercising? etc.

If you already have a healthy diet, I don't think it's a good idea to change it just so you can exercise more. If you don't already have a healthy diet, make it a top priority to have a healthy diet before you worry about exercising. If you run regularly, you should be able to run (lightly) for at least an hour or so without getting tired regardless of what you've eaten that day.

I can't run or bicycle for more than about 30 minutes before I overheat.  (I don't sweat enough.)

[Seprix]

I can't run or bicycle for more than about 30 minutes before I overheat.  (I don't sweat enough.)

Further evidence that Kirian is a cold calculating machine.

[Awaclus]

So normally when I go for a run or to the gym, I am tired in a bad way in 15-20 minutes. But I've noticed that on days where I go for burger and fries from a food truck, I can do exercice 4 hours later for 40-50 minutes before feeling exhausted, and even then I feel tired in a good way. Obviously eating burger and fries every other day is not really a good long term solution, so does anybody have good recommendations about what (and when) to eat to get through a workout with a maximum of energy?

I imagine that the basic idea is "carbs", but then what kind? how much? how long before exercising? etc.

If you already have a healthy diet, I don't think it's a good idea to change it just so you can exercise more. If you don't already have a healthy diet, make it a top priority to have a healthy diet before you worry about exercising. If you run regularly, you should be able to run (lightly) for at least an hour or so without getting tired regardless of what you've eaten that day.

I can't run or bicycle for more than about 30 minutes before I overheat.  (I don't sweat enough.)

Don't sweat it!

[Kirian]

I can't run or bicycle for more than about 30 minutes before I overheat.  (I don't sweat enough.)

Further evidence that Kirian is a cold calculating machine.

I wish.  I am a very hot calculating machine.  In the thermodynamic sense.

[Seprix]

I can't run or bicycle for more than about 30 minutes before I overheat.  (I don't sweat enough.)

Further evidence that Kirian is a cold calculating machine.

I wish.  I am a very hot calculating machine.  In the thermodynamic sense.

Is that why you are currently an unbalanced equation?

[silverspawn]

does anyone here happen to know haskell? I have a problem that I can't figure out via google.

[Tables]

does anyone here happen to know haskell? I have a problem that I can't figure out via google.

Yeah, I know him IRL. Why do you ask?

[Seprix]

I thought Haskell was a programming language.

[Joseph2302]

I thought Haskell was a programming language.

It is, Tables is just being a troll like usual.

[Tables]

Tomorrow I'm doing my driving theory test. Just to bring people outside the UK up to speed on how that works, it's a 50 multiple choice question test and you have to get 43 correct to pass. Then there's a hazard perception test where you basically have to watch 14 videos and identify the hazard in each as quickly as possible.

But mostly I want to focus on how weird the multiple choice part is. You get these questions which are literally just basic reasoning and deduction based on the options, and then you get questions about hand signals that nobody actually seems to know (seriously, I've asked a few friends that are drivers and they're always unsure exactly what each one is) that you're meant to use when your indicators aren't working (or whatever), and there's usually multiple reasonable options for them. So about 70% of the questions you can easily blag through without any driving knowledge whatsoever, and then 30% are just learning these answers.

It'd be like having a test that looks a bit like this, if there was a Hyrule Warriors theory test to pass:

Q1: You have enemies approaching from behind, as well as from the front. You should:
a) Ignore the enemies behind you and attack the ones ahead.
b) Ignore the enemies ahead of you, turn and attack the ones behind
c) Dodge towards the side to group the enemies together, and avoid getting flanked
d) Give up and restart the mission

Q2: Which of these weapons does not have a C6?
a) Goddess Harp
b) Horse
c) Scimitars
d) Zora Scale

Most questions on the driving theory look like question 1. I'm sure even if you've never played the game (or even know what genre it is) you can answer question 1 correctly, but question 2, you just look at and guess randomly. Maybe in context you'd be able to eliminate one or two options (e.g. if I'm signalling to turn left, I'm definitely not holding my hand straight out to the right), but yeah, they're kinda like that.

[Awaclus]

Tomorrow I'm doing my driving theory test. Just to bring people outside the UK up to speed on how that works, it's a 50 multiple choice question test and you have to get 43 correct to pass. Then there's a hazard perception test where you basically have to watch 14 videos and identify the hazard in each as quickly as possible.

But mostly I want to focus on how weird the multiple choice part is. You get these questions which are literally just basic reasoning and deduction based on the options, and then you get questions about hand signals that nobody actually seems to know (seriously, I've asked a few friends that are drivers and they're always unsure exactly what each one is) that you're meant to use when your indicators aren't working (or whatever), and there's usually multiple reasonable options for them. So about 70% of the questions you can easily blag through without any driving knowledge whatsoever, and then 30% are just learning these answers.

It'd be like having a test that looks a bit like this, if there was a Hyrule Warriors theory test to pass:

Q1: You have enemies approaching from behind, as well as from the front. You should:
a) Ignore the enemies behind you and attack the ones ahead.
b) Ignore the enemies ahead of you, turn and attack the ones behind
c) Dodge towards the side to group the enemies together, and avoid getting flanked
d) Give up and restart the mission

Q2: Which of these weapons does not have a C6?
a) Goddess Harp
b) Horse
c) Scimitars
d) Zora Scale

Most questions on the driving theory look like question 1. I'm sure even if you've never played the game (or even know what genre it is) you can answer question 1 correctly, but question 2, you just look at and guess randomly. Maybe in context you'd be able to eliminate one or two options (e.g. if I'm signalling to turn left, I'm definitely not holding my hand straight out to the right), but yeah, they're kinda like that.

Sounds a lot like Finland.

[Kirian]

Not that dissimilar from the US, either (at least Ohio, where I first got my license).

Also, are you one of those people who somehow have never driven until they've been an adult for several years?  Londoner and using the Underground, or something else?

[pacovf]

I got a question about whether you could use a powered mobility device in a pedestrian area. I still don't know the answer. Also questions about the proper way to ride a bike.

I got my license when I turned 19. I've basically never driven since.

[Tables]

Not that dissimilar from the US, either (at least Ohio, where I first got my license).

Also, are you one of those people who somehow have never driven until they've been an adult for several years?  Londoner and using the Underground, or something else?

I first drove a car at 16, on a school road safety something or other day. But since then, yeah, I didn't learn to drive until very recently at 23. I was a student at uni until I was 21 (no need to drive during that, not that I would have been able to afford it anyway), and since then I've lived in a city with a solid public transport system. Not London level good but a solid bus network.

[Watno]

It's basically the same in Germany. there's tons of questions like "Who has ROW in this picture?", but there is also stupid stiff like "Which wheel gets worn most quickly?" or "How much drinking water can be polluted by a drop of oil?" The list of questions is finite though, so you just need to learn them by heart.

[Seprix]

Thank god I knew how much drinking water can be polluted by a single drop of oil, or else I could have crashed right there!

[Witherweaver]

So I saw Wicked tonight.  I've never been so underwhelmed by a stage performance.  The production itself was great, in terms of set, costumes, and the actors themselves were very good.  But the music was pretty bad.. performed well, but bad overall.  It was like the music was just in the way of the storytelling.. like instead of the songs enhancing the story or furthering the plot, it's like we had to wait for them to 'get through a song, before interesting stuff started happening again. 

Really I think this should have been a play.

[Seprix]

Moral of the story: Musicals are bad.

inb4 people get mad

[Witherweaver]

Moral of the story: Musicals are bad.

inb4 people get mad

Not all are bad, but stuff shouldn't just get made into musicals for the sake of having a musical.  The music should actually, you know, do something.

Cats is a good musical.

[Seprix]

One time when I was in film history class, I stated that I didn't like musicals, and some girl got incredibly passionate about it. #UninterestingMomentsSeprix2016

[Roadrunner7671]

Is the answer to question one 'C?'

[LastFootnote]

So I saw Wicked tonight.  I've never been so underwhelmed by a stage performance.  The production itself was great, in terms of set, costumes, and the actors themselves were very good.  But the music was pretty bad.. performed well, but bad overall.  It was like the music was just in the way of the storytelling.. like instead of the songs enhancing the story or furthering the plot, it's like we had to wait for them to 'get through a song, before interesting stuff started happening again. 

Really I think this should have been a play.

I enjoyed the book a lot, but I am not surprised the musical is underwhelming.

[Kirian]

Cats is a good musical.

You misspelled "bad."

Chess is a good musical, as is Jesus Christ Superstar.

[Kuildeous]

I'm a big fan of Evil Dead: The Musical.

The music is actually not all that great, but when the show is put on right, it just fucking rocks. I was sad to learn that not all theatres have splatter zones. I'm just in a lucky region apparently.

[Seprix]

Splatter Zones? I think my level of interest to go to a musical went from 0 to 1.

[ConMan]

Matilda is good. Not a 100% accurate retelling of the book, but enjoyable and the music is very recognisably Tim Minchin.

[Awaclus]

One time when I was in film history class, I stated that I didn't like musicals, and some girl got incredibly passionate about it. #UninterestingMomentsSeprix2016

Sounds like you just need to watch more musicals then.

My favorites are Heart String Marionette and Dancer in the Dark.

[pedroluchini]

I really like Tangled (the Disney movie from a few years ago). Great songs, fun characters, excellent execution of an ages-old formula. Even a trite story can be interesting if it's told well.

[Tables]

Is the answer to question one 'C?'

Congratulations, you pass!

(There are arguably better options in the actual game than this, but of the four presented this is by far the best. Probably a much better option would be to dash beyond the enemies ahead/behind, to force the other group to approach from your front, so you can fight one group separately for a moment and won't get assaulted from behind when they meet up)

[Kuildeous]

Splatter Zones? I think my level of interest to go to a musical went from 0 to 1.

Sure, how can you not be intrigued by a musical with songs like, "What the Fuck Was That?", "All the Men in My Life Keep Getting Killed by Candarian Demons", "Ode to an Accidental Stabbing," and "Blew that Bitch Away"?

Also, lots of blood.

Not like Hello, Dolly! at all ("F-E-M-I-T-Y!").

[Kuildeous]

Huh, I just learned there's a Caligula musical and a Re-animator musical.

They're going nuts with making musicals on all sorts of movies and books, which is kind of cool, but many musicals are pretty banal. I was in a production of Big. It was fun, but the music was mostly ho-hum. I did enjoy the toy manufacturers' song that reflected the doldrums of office work.

[Witherweaver]

Cats is a good musical.

You misspelled "bad."

Chess is a good musical, as is Jesus Christ Superstar.

Cats is brilliant.  Simple, but clever.  Well, maybe the clever part of it is more from Eliot's poems, but enough of it is present in the show and the music works with them.

[Seprix]

Splatter Zones? I think my level of interest to go to a musical went from 0 to 1.

Sure, how can you not be intrigued by a musical with songs like, "What the Fuck Was That?", "All the Men in My Life Keep Getting Killed by Candarian Demons", "Ode to an Accidental Stabbing," and "Blew that Bitch Away"?

Also, lots of blood.

Not like Hello, Dolly! at all ("F-E-M-I-T-Y!").

2

[Watno]

I, for one, like Roman Numerals.

[Tables]

For those wondering, I passed my driving theory. Now I can drive to my theoretical friends house.

[Seprix]

For those wondering, I passed my driving theory. Now I can drive to my theoretical friends house.

In theory, yes.

[LastFootnote]

For those wondering, I passed my driving theory. Now I can drive to my theoretical friends house.

In theory, yes.

Better get some practice.

[Awaclus]

For those wondering, I passed my driving theory. Now I can drive to my theoretical friends house.

In theory, yes.

Better get some practice.

Practice makes perfect, but nobody's perfect, so why practice?

[Seprix]

For those wondering, I passed my driving theory. Now I can drive to my theoretical friends house.

In theory, yes.

Better get some practice.

Practice makes perfect, but nobody's perfect, so why practice?

So you can be perfect.

[Limetime]

For those wondering, I passed my driving theory. Now I can drive to my theoretical friends house.

In theory, yes.

Better get some practice.

Practice makes perfect, but nobody's perfect, so why practice?

The reason why nobody's perfect is that they don't practice Enough.

[Kuildeous]

I, for one, like Roman Numerals.

IC.

[Watno]

For those wondering, I passed my driving theory. Now I can drive to my theoretical friends house.

Why is it your theory? Doesn't he belong to all of us? Also, where was he driving?

[Witherweaver]

I wanted to make that joke

[Kuildeous]

Ugh, seriously having a talk with my wife about the need to put down our first pet rat. She's the first pet I owned as an adult. She's the one that made my wife fall in love with rats.

If the medication isn't helping her, then we'll have to make the appointment. Sad days.

[Awaclus]

Ugh, seriously having a talk with my wife about the need to put down our first pet rat. She's the first pet I owned as an adult. She's the one that made my wife fall in love with rats.

If the medication isn't helping her, then we'll have to make the appointment. Sad days.

But on the upside, you'll get +1 card!

[Seprix]

Ugh, seriously having a talk with my wife about the need to put down our first pet rat. She's the first pet I owned as an adult. She's the one that made my wife fall in love with rats.

If the medication isn't helping her, then we'll have to make the appointment. Sad days.

But on the upside, you'll get +1 card!

That's a little tasteless. Just a little.

[Darth Vader]

This bickering is pointless. Now Kuildeous will provide us with the location of the local veterinarian. They will then crush the rat with one swift stroke.

[Seprix]

[ConMan]

Wow, the nostalgia.

[Kuildeous]

Man, I hate overexplainers. Someone had an issue with a Word document.

Co-worker: The page numbers are replaced with that.
Me: Oh, that's a field code. Press Alt+F9 to fix it.
Co-worker: And then there are these things scattered through the document.
Me: Yep, press Alt+F9.
Co-worker: And the index is gone.
Me: That's also a code. Press Alt+F9.
Co-worker: And my Table of Contents disappeared!
Me: *deep breath* I see that. Press Alt+F9 now, and it'll all be fixed.

Seriously, if I can diagnosis it after one symptom, I don't need to know the others (and they're really all one symptom anyway).

[Witherweaver]

Man, I hate overexplainers. Someone had an issue with a Word document.

Co-worker: The page numbers are replaced with that.
Me: Oh, that's a field code. Press Alt+F9 to fix it.
Co-worker: And then there are these things scattered through the document.
Me: Yep, press Alt+F9.
Co-worker: And the index is gone.
Me: That's also a code. Press Alt+F9.
Co-worker: And my Table of Contents disappeared!
Me: *deep breath* I see that. Press Alt+F9 now, and it'll all be fixed.

Seriously, if I can diagnosis it after one symptom, I don't need to know the others (and they're really all one symptom anyway).

Newbie mistake.  First suggestion is always to turn it off and back on again.

[Kuildeous]

And now for an episode of Conversations That Didn't Happen Because I Don't Want to Be Marched Down to HR:

"I have a relay this Saturday."
"Oh? Who'd you lay in the first place?"

[Seprix]

Man, I hate economics already. I have no idea how to calculate a market equilibrium having nothing but a table (no equation), or how each change in demand and/or supply affects equilibrium prices and equilibrium quantities in a competitive market. It's week one. I'm doomed.

[eHalcyon]

Man, I hate economics already. I have no idea how to calculate a market equilibrium having nothing but a table (no equation), or how each change in demand and/or supply affects equilibrium prices and equilibrium quantities in a competitive market. It's week one. I'm doomed.

Presumably the point of the class is to teach you these things. You're not doomed unless you still have no idea on exam day.

[Seprix]

Yes, but I've read it all over, and it makes no sense to me at all. I am taking an accelerated course online, so there's not really any help outside reading the book.

[Chris is me]

One of my friends offered a colorful interpretation of the Peasant line artwork as the life cycle of a stoner. Peasant is a chill dude, just likes to get high. Soldier is when he finds himself in the military and torn from his illegal pastime. Fugitive is when he is on the run, having quit the army to get high, consistently paranoid as a result. Disciple is when he discovers academia, a wonderful place where not only can he get high in peace, he can learn his craft from the masters. Finally, he becomes a teacher, an esteemed elder spreading the gospel to anyone who will listen.

Don't do drugs kids.

[eHalcyon]

Man, I hate economics already. I have no idea how to calculate a market equilibrium having nothing but a table (no equation), or how each change in demand and/or supply affects equilibrium prices and equilibrium quantities in a competitive market. It's week one. I'm doomed.

Demand goes up, equilibrium price goes up.
Supply goes up, equilibrium price goes down.

What's on the table? Can you just find the row/column for the price and supply? I don't remember ever using a table; usually we drew graphs. Oh, I guess you can plot some points using the table to get supply and demand curves, then find the intersection.

[Witherweaver]

Maybe interpolate linearly to estimate the intersection. 

[Seprix]

There was a table with some price points with apartments, demand, and supply. For some reason, I couldn't make a graph. All of this is so new to me, I have no idea what I'm doing. I guess I'm going to spend all weekend watching videos on this..

[silverspawn]

I just realized that newspapers are unbelievably boring

I can't believe people read them every day.

[Tables]

I asked my housemate for a newspaper the other day.

"Don't be stupid." He said, "Nobody reads newspapers any more. Just use my iPad."

That fly had no idea what hit him.

[ashersky]

Was flipping through the radio stations here in Rome and hit on one called FD5.  For a second I was blown away that our forum had a radio station!

[Kirian]

Man, I hate economics already. I have no idea how to calculate a market equilibrium having nothing but a table (no equation), or how each change in demand and/or supply affects equilibrium prices and equilibrium quantities in a competitive market. It's week one. I'm doomed.

To be perfectly fair, most professional economists can't calculate that either, at least not with real world numbers and people.

[Teproc]

I just realized that newspapers are unbelievably boring

I can't believe people read them every day.

They're not.

They don't.

[Witherweaver]

I just realized that newspapers are unbelievably boring

I can't believe people read them every day.

They're not.

They don't.

They just need Christian Bale singing about them.

[silverspawn]

there's a giant flying thing in my room that makes weird rustling noises. I do not approve.

[Awaclus]

there's a giant flying thing in my room that makes weird rustling noises. I do not approve.

A helicopter?

[silverspawn]

no, I meant giant more as in compared to a fly

[eHalcyon]

no, I meant giant more as in compared to a fly

A helicopter is giant compared to a fly.

[ConMan]

Man, I hate overexplainers. Someone had an issue with a Word document.

Co-worker: The page numbers are replaced with that.
Me: Oh, that's a field code. Press Alt+F9 to fix it.
Co-worker: And then there are these things scattered through the document.
Me: Yep, press Alt+F9.
Co-worker: And the index is gone.
Me: That's also a code. Press Alt+F9.
Co-worker: And my Table of Contents disappeared!
Me: *deep breath* I see that. Press Alt+F9 now, and it'll all be fixed.

Seriously, if I can diagnosis it after one symptom, I don't need to know the others (and they're really all one symptom anyway).

On the one hand, absolutely. Especially in this case, where all of the problems were in fact symptoms of the same underlying issue. But then on the other hand you get the people who will only report one symptom, and it won't be the one most relevant to solving the problem (the archetypal one being the person who calls tech support because they can't see their mouse cursor, one page of dialogue later they admit there's been a blackout).

[silverspawn]

no, I meant giant more as in compared to a fly

A helicopter is giant compared to a fly.

yes, but by saying that it was compared to a fly it no longer necessitates a helicopter and hence the more plausible option is more likely.

[Kuildeous]

And giant is relative anyway.

A fly is giant compared to an atom.

[Seprix]

And giant is relative anyway.

How's your uncle Goliath?

[Kuildeous]

*opens shiny new Office 2013 application*
*presses Ctrl+O and tries to type path*
*discovers new shortcut key is Alt+F, O, C, B*

This is why no one likes you, Office 2013.

[Tables]

no, I meant giant more as in compared to a fly

A helicopter is giant compared to a fly.

yes, but by saying that it was compared to a fly it no longer necessitates a helicopter and hence the more plausible option is more likely.

Why was there even a small helicopter in your room anyway?

[Kirian]

*opens shiny new Office 2013 application*
*presses Ctrl+O and tries to type path*
*discovers new shortcut key is Alt+F, O, C, B*

This is why no one likes you, Office 2013.

I stopped using Office in, like, 2007.  At the time, I was using an old copy of Office 2000.  Switched to OpenOffice, never looked back, though I have considered LibreOffice.

[Awaclus]

OpenOffice is awful. I'm using Office 2013 now, but it's not really any better or worse than Office 2007 which was super amazing.

[Kuildeous]

OpenOffice is awful. I'm using Office 2013 now, but it's not really any better or worse than Office 2007 which was super amazing.

Yeah, I see no indication of Office 2013 being hugely different from Office 2007, except that apparently they just want to keep punishing us hotkey users. They took something as beautiful as Ctrl+O and turned it into a monstrosity.

[Seprix]

OpenOffice is awful. I'm using Office 2013 now, but it's not really any better or worse than Office 2007 which was super amazing.

Yeah, I see no indication of Office 2013 being hugely different from Office 2007, except that apparently they just want to keep punishing us hotkey users. They took something as beautiful as Ctrl+O and turned it into a monstrosity.

Can't you change the hotkeys? You can with Mac applications #MacMasterRace

[Kuildeous]

OpenOffice is awful. I'm using Office 2013 now, but it's not really any better or worse than Office 2007 which was super amazing.

Yeah, I see no indication of Office 2013 being hugely different from Office 2007, except that apparently they just want to keep punishing us hotkey users. They took something as beautiful as Ctrl+O and turned it into a monstrosity.

Can't you change the hotkeys? You can with Mac applications #MacMasterRace

Well, the hotkey Ctrl+O still works, but in older versions of Office, you press it and immediately get an open dialogue box where you can type in the path you want to navigate to.

But apparently with this, you don't get that. You instead have to click on a Browse button, meaning that I have to take my hands off the keyboard.

[eHalcyon]

"I play Laboratory, which lets me draw two more cards from my deck and add them to my hand!"

[Lekkit]

"I play Laboratory, which lets me draw two more cards from my deck and add them to my hand!"

For the record, that card is so good it's banned in the standard tournament formats.

[Seprix]

Pot of Greed sounds hilarious. And yes, I looked it up. Pot of Greed is banned. What kind of game that has a single card that lets you draw two is so OP that it has to be banned?

[LastFootnote]

Pot of Greed sounds hilarious. And yes, I looked it up. Pot of Greed is banned. What kind of game that has a single card that lets you draw two is so OP that it has to be banned?

Dominion is actually the outlier in this respect, I think. In my limited experience, other deck builders tend to make card drawing much rarer and/or more expensive. Which is fair, since it can be a real drag to wait while another player painstakingly plays their entire deck each turn.

[Accatitippi]

How does YuGiOh compare to Magic? I indirectly know MtG, and I've seen people playing yugioh and it looked pretty similar, without colors and with every number times 1000.

[jsh357]

Pot of Greed sounds hilarious. And yes, I looked it up. Pot of Greed is banned. What kind of game that has a single card that lets you draw two is so OP that it has to be banned?

Dominion is actually the outlier in this respect, I think. In my limited experience, other deck builders tend to make card drawing much rarer and/or more expensive. Which is fair, since it can be a real drag to wait while another player painstakingly plays their entire deck each turn.

As an example, Bill (in pokemon tcg) was identical to pot of greed and almost every competitive deck ran 4 of it. Card/hand advantage is huge in most card games. It's big in dominion too, but one difference there is you have to work to get your labs. You don't just burn through 2 cards in your deck. Furthermore, in a game like Ygo, your deck only has 40 cards and your goal is to get to your good stuff. Reducing the work to get there is incredibly powerful.

[Accatitippi]

Pot of Greed sounds hilarious. And yes, I looked it up. Pot of Greed is banned. What kind of game that has a single card that lets you draw two is so OP that it has to be banned?

Dominion is actually the outlier in this respect, I think. In my limited experience, other deck builders tend to make card drawing much rarer and/or more expensive. Which is fair, since it can be a real drag to wait while another player painstakingly plays their entire deck each turn.

Regarding this, it must also be noted that all other deckbuilders that I've played don't have Dominion's restriction on Actions. This makes draw incredibly more powerful, as shown by Champion. Not only you can chain the draw cards, but you're guaranteed to be able to play anything you draw. In such a context, building engines is not nearly as exciting as in Dominion, and abundant draw availability would kinda break the game.

[LastFootnote]

Pot of Greed sounds hilarious. And yes, I looked it up. Pot of Greed is banned. What kind of game that has a single card that lets you draw two is so OP that it has to be banned?

Dominion is actually the outlier in this respect, I think. In my limited experience, other deck builders tend to make card drawing much rarer and/or more expensive. Which is fair, since it can be a real drag to wait while another player painstakingly plays their entire deck each turn.

Regarding this, it must also be noted that all other deckbuilders that I've played don't have Dominion's restriction on Actions. This makes draw incredibly more powerful, as shown by Champion. Not only you can chain the draw cards, but you're guaranteed to be able to play anything you draw. In such a context, building engines is not nearly as exciting as in Dominion, and abundant draw availability would kinda break the game.

This is very true. I was also thinking of Tanto Cuore, which I have never yet played, but have looked at the card list for the base game. It does have limited Actions and Buys like Dominion, and [+3 Cards, +1 Buy] costs the same as a Gold ($7).

[Tables]

I was trying to play Splatoon today and getting annoyed at constant disconnections, so I decided to do a speedtest to check if my internet was running properly.

http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/5391549320

Welcome to the world of TalkTalk.

[Seprix]

I was trying to play Splatoon today and getting annoyed at constant disconnections, so I decided to do a speedtest to check if my internet was running properly.

http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/5391549320

Welcome to the world of TalkTalk.

I don't know what's great or bad, but I compared it with mine:

http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/5391558791

So yeah, I'd say I'm probably average/slightly below average, so there must be something up with your internet.

[Tables]

That is most definitely not anything close to average. That's about 6 times the average download and double the average upload, compared to the numbers they have there.

[Seprix]

That is most definitely not anything close to average. That's about 6 times the average download and double the average upload, compared to the numbers they have there.

...really?

[Tables]

http://www.speedtest.net/results.php

[Seprix]

http://www.speedtest.net/results.php

That is the global average, so that's going to include awful places for internet on the earth. It will also include some European countries with even better internet on average. All the same, I guess I have good internet.

[Tables]

It will include some places with very poor internet, such as parts of Africa and those people served by TalkTalk in the UK, but overall that's still incredibly high. 100 Mbit/second means you can download one gigabyte of data in about a minute, which is pretty huge for a personal internet connection. Then again it does depend on how many people you share that internet connection with I guess.

[LastFootnote]

Having lived in Minnesota my whole life, I had no idea there was a Minnesota City. I was like, "That's gotta be fake."

[Kuildeous]

Huh, I find the disparity between download and upload interesting. I tried mine:
http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/5391579332

So Seprix had a much better download rate than me, but my upload was better. And my ping was really good, which is what I expect from Fiber. But it is interesting that my DL/UL rates are close to the same while Seprix and Tables have some disproportion going on.

But man, Tables, that ping. I never heard of TalkTalk, but I see why you're not impressed.

[Seprix]

Having lived in Minnesota my whole life, I had no idea there was a Minnesota City. I was like, "That's gotta be fake."

I wondered about that too.

[silverspawn]

I'm supposed to have 100 MB and only have 14. I hope that's because others are using the connection right now, but it's still kind of odd.

[Chris is me]

Something to consider is that it's widely believed that ISPs selectively prioritize connections to notable speed testing websites, so your actual mileage may vary.

[Kirian]

It will include some places with very poor internet, such as parts of Africa and those people served by TalkTalk in the UK, but overall that's still incredibly high. 100 Mbit/second means you can download one gigabyte of data in about a minute, which is pretty huge for a personal internet connection. Then again it does depend on how many people you share that internet connection with I guess.

LOL, don't forget that "places with poor internet" includes possibly the majority of the USA.  And we pay through the nose for it, because there's no incentives to enforce monopoly laws.  We pay $40/mo for about 10 Mbps.

[2.71828.....]

I ran the speed test a couple times.  Most of the time I came back with something like this.

But then I ran it and got this.

tests run 2 minutes apart with wildly different results (on the download speed).  Yay for reliable internet.

[Kirian]

I ran the speed test a couple times.  Most of the time I came back with something like this.

But then I ran it and got this.

tests run 2 minutes apart with wildly different results (on the download speed).  Yay for reliable internet.

Gotta love Comcast.

[jsh357]

My internet connection goes completely off several times a day. I track it with my IRC client, and it seems like maybe 20-24 times per on the worst days. I actually miss Comcast... Time Warner's service has been awful (and it's the best in my area).

Have fun when/if you move here, e.

[Titandrake]

There's a MLP x Ace Attorney crossover called Turnabout Storm. It's better than it sounds. It's also very long, about 9 hours total, so watch out for binging.

Another fan group is making a sequel called Elements of Justice. Like most fanworks it'll either never get finished or come out heavily behind schedule, but the trailer is great.

[Seprix]

I got excited about a new Phoenix Wright game for nothing. Those fan games tricked me.

[popsofctown]

Casual 5$ dominion tournament at a local coffee shop today.

I'm merely speculating on what the rule and sets will be, but: crash course on 4p base Dominion please.  Is Thief good?

[LastFootnote]

Casual 5$ dominion tournament at a local coffee shop today.

I'm merely speculating on what the rule and sets will be, but: crash course on 4p base Dominion please.  Is Thief good?

If at least two other players ate buying lots of Silver and Gold, AND you can increase your hand size, then yes-ish?

[Seprix]

Casual 5$ dominion tournament at a local coffee shop today.

I'm merely speculating on what the rule and sets will be, but: crash course on 4p base Dominion please.  Is Thief good?

It's better, but still bad.

[popsofctown]

Ok, skip Thief, do I buy Gardens when other people do?

[Seprix]

Ok, skip Thief, do I buy Gardens when other people do?

That's incredibly hard to answer.

[popsofctown]

I'm looking for easy answers here.

[Seprix]

I'm looking for easy answers here.

"depends on the board." If everyone starts grabbing Gardens, well, is the game going to end soon or not? If so, you'd better start Greening. If not, go Provinces. If you do something different from everyone else who wants to do the same thing, you usually win just from doing that.

[Accatitippi]

I'm looking for easy answers here.

"depends on the board." If everyone starts grabbing Gardens, well, is the game going to end soon or not? If so, you'd better start Greening. If not, go Provinces. If you do something different from everyone else who wants to do the same thing, you usually win just from doing that.

This is key. It's not an universal rule, but it's a good rule of thumb for when splits matter. (most prominently alt-vp and engine component piles, but it's also valid for attacks: you probably don't need to grab a Militia yourself if everybody else already has one).
Piles may evaporate fast, keep that in mind if you want to build an Engine.
Keep track of your opponents' scores, because surprise 3-piles are often how you gain an advantage.

[Tables]

Just played a game of Splatoon. I thought it was going really well - map seemed to be mostly our colour for most of the game, I was picking up a decent number of kills and not dying all that much. And I was using the H-3 Nozzlenose, which is often considered the worst or at least one of the worst weapons in the game (although I was using the new version which is a big improvement in terms of sub and special weapons). In the last 30 seconds I'm in their base, covering their area and surviving pretty well. My teammates are nowhere to be seen, but I've got two guys trying to stop me. Eventually one of them manages to get the kill with about 5 seconds left, and I just quickly check the map to see if we've won. Their base is completely yellow (our colour), the rest of the map is pink. Uhh, what? What were my teammates even doing? The game ends, and I'm the top turfer on our team and have a K/D of 7/2 - basically I played very well. The rest of my team has a total of two kills between them. And about 20 deaths. And their turfing wasn't anything impressive either. Also, the new H-3 has a more support and defense oriented kit, so it's hardly like I was stealing their kills - if anything I was helping them survive and get the kills themselves as I defended them.

Sometimes playing co-op online games sucks.

[Watno]

I'm not familiar with that game, but from your story, I'm not convinced you played well. If you had abilities to help your teammates survive, why the hell would you be in the enemy base alone?
Shouldn't you be aware of what your teammates are doing in a team game?

[2.71828.....]

I'm not familiar with that game, but from your story, I'm not convinced you played well. If you had abilities to help your teammates survive, why the hell would you be in the enemy base alone?
Shouldn't you be aware of what your teammates are doing in a team game?

no, KDR of 3.5 is very good in any sort of shooter game.  Sometimes the guys on your team are just awful.  I don't play splatoon, and I am not very good at FPS, but I know some FPS game theory from Call of Duty and Battlefront and such.  If you go 7-2 and your team goes 2-20....you know you just got screwed by having a terrible team. 

[Tables]

I'm not familiar with that game, but from your story, I'm not convinced you played well. If you had abilities to help your teammates survive, why the hell would you be in the enemy base alone?
Shouldn't you be aware of what your teammates are doing in a team game?

Fair criticism. I'm no expert at the game. The abilities eren't explicitly to help teammates - basically it has a wall you can temporarily throw up to block some attacks which you'll usually use to put between you and an enemy, but of course allies can benefit to, and it's special weapon is a bubble shield which protects you from all attacks for ~6 seconds, and also spreads to protect allies if they're nearby. It's about 50/50 whether that second aspect gets taken advantage of - basically depending on if there's teammates nearby. So basically, while these abilities do help allies, they're also good for fighting solo. As for awareness of teammates - yes and no. The game has no voice chat and I was playing the unranked mode Turf War, where teamwork is significantly less important, so it doesn't matter too much if you go rambo away from teammates. In some ways it's a good thing, since it covers more turf, and that's the goal of the game.

[Darth Vader]

It's no Emperor, but Overlord is decent enough I guess.

[popsofctown]

I made tied for second/third, first, and first in my games. 

It was veto mode, and game 1 Village, Militia, Cellar, Witch, Woodcutter, Moat, Gardens and Library were on the board.  I was going second.  I vetoed Moat, in hopes that the average random Dominion player would undervalue attacks a lot so the Moat would make mine stronger.  Also having a Moat to reveal at the right times seems RNG.  I was correct, but not correct enough to win through 4$ t3/t4/t5/t6, player 1 bought Witch on his first 5 and never bought a Witch ever again, Player 3 never bought any attacks even though I skipped Militia in hopes he'd do it for me.  In hindsight I probably should have vetoed Witch.  The player who actually won wasn't player one at all, it was the Gardens player.  My slow start and the 4 extra Gardens in the supply made the "counter Witch with Gardens" dream real, though with 1 fewer card in his deck he would have lost.
Rounds 2 and 3 added Seaside
Game 2 had Fishing Village, Market, Woodcutter, Smithy, Gardens, Salvager, Laboratory, and Moneylender.  That was either the game I vetoed Ghost Ship to reduce first player advantage or the game I vetoed Explorer for not being a sufficiently appealing trap.  I relied on a single Salvager for trashing so that the Fishing Village/Smithy deck could get good value out of the Gardens pile.  Player 1 started with Moneylender, and bought a later Salvager that was mostly used to trash Provinces for Provinces and accelerate the game so my engine's score couldn't catch up.  With 12 Provinces in the stack and little participation from the other player it wasn't fast enough, though. I won by about 12 points or so.
Game 3 had Wharf, Native Village, no other Villages, Bureaucrat (I remember because well someone bought one), Merchant Ship, Adventurer, Pearl Diver, and Island.  Seems like maybe there was a low power-level trasher in there, but not Lookout OH!, Remodel.
Both other players opened 5/2.  I feel like if you open 5/2 on this board, you buy Wharf/nothing and go straight big money, right?  I would think it's probably a little bit faster than the Wharf engine can manage to get set up.  Both players did open Wharf and made an immediate recognition of how powerful it was even though I was the only one who had played with it before.  Unfortunately they made an immediate recognition of how powerful Pearl Diver was as well.  If you DON'T get 5/2, like I did, I think the correct thing is to go engine, so that's what I did.  It's also probably more correct when the other players are going to do worse than Wharf BM, and when you want to dodge the variance of missing 5$ being more tragic for the BM strategy than the engine strategy (actually, as an engine player I think I actively incited that tragedy early by opening Remodel, though it is perhaps more correct to stick with Silver until you get the first Wharf into your deck).

The funnest turn of the night is when I managed to draw 8$ and 3+buys when there were 4 Native Villages remaining and only 1 Native Village in any of my opponents' decks.  So I piledrove the Native Villages to cut all the other players off from engine strategies, and made the Pearl Divers they were purchasing more painful.


Native Village turns take a little while to resolve, and it took me longer to draw my whole deck game 3 than it did game 2.  One of the other players said he thought it was "boring", although I was playing rather quickly.  It was at least objectively the case that I took no longer on any one action than the two or three times he went into the tank about which card to Salvage.  I responded to his complaints by explaining I had to select whatever strategy seemed best for the board, and he accepted that.  I wonder if whether turning point experiences such as this are what keeps Dominion from getting more tabletime at board game meetup groups like this that end up leaving Dominion in a mix of other games that are mostly lower calibur (even not including Dominion in the mix at all).

The player who organized the tournament was probably pretty good, but I never got to play him.  I tied with him for first place since he had the same record.  I won 12.50$, which was a profit of 7.50$.  It's a lot more money than I made playing super smash bros and MtG, since those figures are negative!

[Lekkit]

Pot of Greed sounds hilarious. And yes, I looked it up. Pot of Greed is banned. What kind of game that has a single card that lets you draw two is so OP that it has to be banned?

Dominion is actually the outlier in this respect, I think. In my limited experience, other deck builders tend to make card drawing much rarer and/or more expensive. Which is fair, since it can be a real drag to wait while another player painstakingly plays their entire deck each turn.

As an example, Bill (in pokemon tcg) was identical to pot of greed and almost every competitive deck ran 4 of it. Card/hand advantage is huge in most card games. It's big in dominion too, but one difference there is you have to work to get your labs. You don't just burn through 2 cards in your deck. Furthermore, in a game like Ygo, your deck only has 40 cards and your goal is to get to your good stuff. Reducing the work to get there is incredibly powerful.

There's also the thing where a draw card in a lot of card games can be balanced through costs. YGO has no resources, so basically whenever you draw your Pot of Greed, you do not only replace it, making it more likely to draw the cards you want (deck thinning or sifting), but it also increases your hand size by 1. For absolutely free. This in a game where you get one card/turn. Basically, in YGO cards are THE resources you have. Imagine starting with a Silver instead of a Copper in your starting deck. That's basically how good Pot of Greed is.

[popsofctown]

You need to analyze Pot of Greed and Bill based on the delta.  It's not 1 card that lets you draw 2, it's zero cards that let you draw 1, essentially.

It naturally becomes an auto 4 of in every deck, then increases variance a little bit by helping out whoever sees more of theirs in any particular game.  The game is strictly better without that variance added.

It would be like adding one $0*, +buy when gained Lab for each player to the standard piles of Gold, Silver, Copper, etc.  It doesn't destroy the game, but it's not actually adding a decision point and is adding a little variance so it's not doing any good for the game.


I'm not sure it's really appropriate to do words like "broken" to describe it, because a lot of other banworthy things have a higher cap on how powerful they get, and because in games like that cards that can reliably perform about as well as Bill but only for specific strategies are tolerated because they don't harm diversity as much.

[Tables]

I decided to check out what time Nintendo's broadcast this E3 is, and so naturally their official E3 page seemed like a good place to look.

http://e3.nintendo.com/

Well okay.

(I do know what this is about, before anyone thinks I'm confused)

[LastFootnote]

I decided to check out what time Nintendo's broadcast this E3 is, and so naturally their official E3 page seemed like a good place to look.

http://e3.nintendo.com/

Well okay.

(I do know what this is about, before anyone thinks I'm confused)

Huh. On my Windows machine (w/Chrome), the symbol eventually went away and was replaced by a page. On my Mac (Firefox), the symbol just sits there and glows.

EDIT: It's Firefox that seems to be the issue. Chrome on my Mac works fine.

[Tables]

Oh, I didn't realise the symbol eventually disappeared. Seems to need to wait a rather long time though. I've had it up at least a minute or so (Chrome) and nothing has happened yet, it just continues to glow.

[eHalcyon]

Now you're decorating with portals.

[Awaclus]

I just realized that whenever I kill a mosquito, I contribute towards the evolution of future mosquito generations being harder to kill.

[Seprix]

I just realized that whenever I kill a mosquito, I contribute towards the evolution of future mosquito generations being harder to kill.

Have mosquitos really changed at all recently?

[silverspawn]

I just realized that whenever I kill a mosquito, I contribute towards the evolution of future mosquito generations being harder to kill.

Have mosquitos really changed at all recently?

That does not seem to be the implication.

[silverspawn]

And it's not true. You don't contribute every time. You only contribute every time on average. Individual mosquito's you kill might have been really tough to kill, relatively speaking.

[Awaclus]

I just realized that whenever I kill a mosquito, I contribute towards the evolution of future mosquito generations being harder to kill.

Have mosquitos really changed at all recently?

A few years ago we had some carbon coated ninja mosquitoes that were entirely silent, extremely difficult to catch, and wouldn't die even when you finally managed to catch one in your fist and tried your best to crush it. The ones we have this year have been generally fairly easy to kill, fortunately.

[Seprix]

What did mosquitoes used to be like before Awaclus started swating them?

[silverspawn]

Maybe out of an unlikely event of excessive variance, the majority of flies you killed were actually hard to kill, so you contributed towards future generations being much easier to kill.

[ConMan]

There's a MLP x Ace Attorney crossover called Turnabout Storm. It's better than it sounds. It's also very long, about 9 hours total, so watch out for binging.

I started watching that when there were one or two episodes. I always meant to catch up on it, but ...

I got excited about a new Phoenix Wright game for nothing. Those fan games tricked me.

Have you already gotten excited about the new game that was announced about a month ago? Because it looks pretty cool. I'm a bit behind on the series but I'll probably get it when it comes out anyway.

[eHalcyon]

I just realized that whenever I kill a mosquito, I contribute towards the evolution of future mosquito generations being harder to kill.

Have mosquitos really changed at all recently?

They've recently advanced in their capacity for biological warfare.

[Seprix]

I have not played the DS version with Apollo Justice, but that one is awful anyways. I'll play it one of these days. I have played Phoenix Wright 1-3, and Dual Destinies. I've beaten them all. Man though, they're challenging.

[ConMan]

Why is the Apollo game bad? It's been a while, but I remember having fun with it.

Also, because I can't remember if I've commented about it on these forums or not, but because I never played Trials and Tribulations (since it was never released in physical form in Australia), I bought the trilogy from the eShop when it was on sale, played through the first two games again, and am now at the last case of the third game. Oddly, I strongly suspect there have been edits from the original releases - firstly because there have been a couple of cultural references that I'm pretty sure wouldn't have existed at the time I played the originals, and secondly because there's an aspect of the second game that seems quite different from how I remember it (as well as there being a few spots in the walkthroughs that I had to look up that slightly differed from the options I had).

At the end of the last case, you have to present a piece of evidence, and I seem to remember that no matter what evidence you presented, you got a big chunk of dialogue leading to a Bad Ending, except that if you present the right piece it stops just before the Bad End and goes on to the resolution of the case - but the first time I played, because I didn't know which evidence to present, I kept resetting the game and trying each piece in turn and did it before the dialogue changed so I never realised I'd presented the right one. In the eShop version, it's extremely clear that you've presented the right evidence immediately. Maybe it's just my memory going, but it definitely feels different.

[Titandrake]

There's a MLP x Ace Attorney crossover called Turnabout Storm. It's better than it sounds. It's also very long, about 9 hours total, so watch out for binging.

I started watching that when there were one or two episodes. I always meant to catch up on it, but ...

Go finish it! It's a series where the production quality gets better with each part. The general consensus I've seen is that it captures the Ace Attorney feel very well, and is enjoyable as long as you're a fan of one series and ambivalent or better about the other.

[Kuildeous]

I just realized that whenever I kill a mosquito, I contribute towards the evolution of future mosquito generations being harder to kill.

Depends on how you kill them. If you poison them, then you are just killing off the weak mosquitos. But if you’re smacking them with a satisfying crunch, then I don’t care how tough that bastard is.

I guess you are killing off the less stealthy ones, though.

[Seprix]

[Titandrake]

I'm trying to find an average opinion on fruit. If you're interesting in helping out, fill out the survey at http://goo.gl/forms/g5MH8AJ9a1i5kQoz2

[drsteelhammer]

I'm trying to find an average opinion on fruit. If you're interesting in helping out, fill out the survey at http://goo.gl/forms/g5MH8AJ9a1i5kQoz2

These were some hard decisions, I really had to reevaluate my fruit ratings. Except Tomatoes. Fuck tomatoes.

[Awaclus]

Except Tomatoes. Fuck tomatoes.

I mean, I love tomatoes as well, but I wouldn't go as far as to have sex with them...

[Watno]

I'm trying to find an average opinion on fruit. If you're interesting in helping out, fill out the survey at http://goo.gl/forms/g5MH8AJ9a1i5kQoz2

A bit of feedback: The Ease/Difficulty scale is really confusing, because it says ease on the left and difficulty right i Ease/Difficulty, yet easy is on the right and difficult is on the left when you click the buttons.

[Awaclus]

Oh no, LFN has surpassed me on the top 10 post voters list!

[Seprix]

Oh no, LFN has surpassed me on the top 10 post voters list!

Where is this alleged list?

[gkrieg13]

Oh no, LFN has surpassed me on the top 10 post voters list!

Quick upvote this post!

[liopoil]

He's also within 200 respect of you too.

If you upvote all of my posts I think you'll even pass sudgy.

[2.71828.....]

I'm trying to find an average opinion on fruit. If you're interesting in helping out, fill out the survey at http://goo.gl/forms/g5MH8AJ9a1i5kQoz2

So....grapes get seeded and seedless, but not red/green. Watermelons- were those supposed to be seedless or seeded? In in general I had a rule of thumb: peeling is difficult, slicing is worse. Ambiguous fruits (do I slice the apple or just eat it whole???) were in the middle. But speaking of apples, just plain red? I don't like red delicious that much, but fugi is my favorite. Honeycrisp is also delicious.

[Seprix]

Wow, I'm 14th all time in posting here? I'm like so much newer than everyone else. I guess my posts don't have much substance to them though.

[Kuildeous]

Dammit, Microsoft. As much effort as you put into making things consistent, there are still strides to be made in others.

Working in Excel: Press Alt+E, S to paste special.
Working in Word: Press Alt+E, S to paste special.
Working in PowerPoint: Press Alt+E, S to paste special.
Working in Outlook: Press Alt+E, S to pas…er, no, to fucking send the e-mail before I'm done. RAGERECALL!

It's like Microsoft is trying to kill off us keyboard users without making it look like they are trying to kill us.

[Titandrake]

I'm trying to find an average opinion on fruit. If you're interesting in helping out, fill out the survey at http://goo.gl/forms/g5MH8AJ9a1i5kQoz2

A bit of feedback: The Ease/Difficulty scale is really confusing, because it says ease on the left and difficulty right i Ease/Difficulty, yet easy is on the right and difficult is on the left when you click the buttons.

Thanks, fixed.

I'm trying to find an average opinion on fruit. If you're interesting in helping out, fill out the survey at http://goo.gl/forms/g5MH8AJ9a1i5kQoz2

So....grapes get seeded and seedless, but not red/green. Watermelons- were those supposed to be seedless or seeded? In in general I had a rule of thumb: peeling is difficult, slicing is worse. Ambiguous fruits (do I slice the apple or just eat it whole???) were in the middle. But speaking of apples, just plain red? I don't like red delicious that much, but fugi is my favorite. Honeycrisp is also delicious.

See, I was thinking about it, and realized there was no way I was going to be able to list all the fruits I wanted a rating on without making the survey way too long. It's already at 21 fruits and I only added a few things to the chart. I'm missing pears and blackberries and raspberries, all of which should be added before any new apple varieties.

Watermelon should have been split up, except it wasn't in the xkcd comic, and I want to be able to compare them directly.

[Seprix]

I think this whole fruit survey is an elaborate attempt by Titandrake to get our emails so he can send us his secret Harry Potter fanfiction.

[Watno]

Oh, also strawberries are not fruit, they're nuts.

In other news, I just got my new ID with maximum effectiveness: I went to the City Hall, got a number, went and bought a 0,5l tetrapack of water, returned a book to the library, printed some stuff, and came back to the city hall about 45 minutes  after getting my number, in the exact minute my number was called.

[eHalcyon]

Oh, also strawberries are not fruit, they're nuts.

No, they are fruit.

[LastFootnote]

Oh, also strawberries are not fruit, they're nuts.

No, they are fruit.

In a culinary sense, strawberries are fruit. In a botanical sense, I don't care. So I'm siding with eHalcyon here.

[eHalcyon]

Oh, also strawberries are not fruit, they're nuts.

No, they are fruit.

In a culinary sense, strawberries are fruit. In a botanical sense, I don't care. So I'm siding with eHalcyon here.

I prefer the botanical sense (tomatoes are fruit!). Strawberries are an accessory fruit, which is still a fruit. These are sometimes called "false fruit", but that term is considered inapt by botanists (according to wikipedia, citation provided).

I don't think it is considered a nut in any sense. Nuts have hard shells by definition. But even if strawberries were nuts, they would still be fruit, because nuts are fruit by botanical definition too!

[Awaclus]

He's also within 200 respect of you too.

But it was me who surpassed him some time ago.

EDIT: The list (and a bunch of other lists) are here: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?action=stats

Which I had to check recently after I was shocked to realize how big my total time online was, to make sure that at least some forum gamers still had a bigger amount than me.

[scott_pilgrim]

Oh, also strawberries are not fruit, they're nuts.

No, they are fruit.

In a culinary sense, strawberries are fruit. In a botanical sense, I don't care. So I'm siding with eHalcyon here.

I got into an argument with someone recently about whether avocados are fruits or vegetables.  I'm willing to accept that they might technically be fruits, but I think it's totally impractical to refer to them as such in the real world, because functionally, they always get used at the same time as vegetables.  Someone should be able to ask me "What vegetables do you want on your burger?" and I can say "Avocado"; rather than them asking me "What vegetables and/or avocado do you want on your burger?"

Maybe this is just an issue of descriptivism vs. prescriptivism though.

[LostPhoenix]

Oh, also strawberries are not fruit, they're nuts.

No, they are fruit.

In a culinary sense, strawberries are fruit. In a botanical sense, I don't care. So I'm siding with eHalcyon here.

I got into an argument with someone recently about whether avocados are fruits or vegetables.  I'm willing to accept that they might technically be fruits, but I think it's totally impractical to refer to them as such in the real world, because functionally, they always get used at the same time as vegetables.  Someone should be able to ask me "What vegetables do you want on your burger?" and I can say "Avocado"; rather than them asking me "What vegetables and/or avocado do you want on your burger?"

Maybe this is just an issue of descriptivism vs. prescriptivism though.

Technically, if something has a pit or seeds, then it's a fruit.  That would include avocados, pumpkins, squash, cucumbers, and zucchini.

[Watno]

Also Roshan.

[LastFootnote]

Oh, also strawberries are not fruit, they're nuts.

No, they are fruit.

In a culinary sense, strawberries are fruit. In a botanical sense, I don't care. So I'm siding with eHalcyon here.

I got into an argument with someone recently about whether avocados are fruits or vegetables.  I'm willing to accept that they might technically be fruits, but I think it's totally impractical to refer to them as such in the real world, because functionally, they always get used at the same time as vegetables.  Someone should be able to ask me "What vegetables do you want on your burger?" and I can say "Avocado"; rather than them asking me "What vegetables and/or avocado do you want on your burger?"

Maybe this is just an issue of descriptivism vs. prescriptivism though.

It's an issue of context. In a culinary context, tomatoes, avocados, cucumbers, etc. are vegetables rather than fruits. In a botanical context they're all fruits, because that's the part of the plant they are: the fruit of the plant. In a botanical context, there is no such thing as a vegetable; unlike "fruit", "vegetable" is a purely culinary word.

When ordering a burger, you're very clearly in a culinary context, so avocado is a vegetable.

[Seprix]

tl;dr Don't be that guy who says a tomato is a fruit.

[LastFootnote]

tl;dr Don't be that guy who says a tomato is a fruit.

Amen.

[faust]

Oh, also strawberries are not fruit, they're nuts.

No, you are.

[Witherweaver]

Oh, also strawberries are not fruit, they're nuts.

No, they are fruit.

In a culinary sense, strawberries are fruit. In a botanical sense, I don't care. So I'm siding with eHalcyon here.

I got into an argument with someone recently about whether avocados are fruits or vegetables.  I'm willing to accept that they might technically be fruits, but I think it's totally impractical to refer to them as such in the real world, because functionally, they always get used at the same time as vegetables.  Someone should be able to ask me "What vegetables do you want on your burger?" and I can say "Avocado"; rather than them asking me "What vegetables and/or avocado do you want on your burger?"

Maybe this is just an issue of descriptivism vs. prescriptivism though.

So mayonnaise is a fruit if you want it on your burger? 

Avocados are obviously fruits, and your statement "because functionally, they always get used at the same time as vegetables." is demonstrably false.  I consume avocados primarily in the context of consuming other fruits---in a smoothie (with e.g., berries, apples, banana), by itself as I might eat an apple (though for avocados I use a spoon and don't eat the skin).  I add them to salads, too, though there I have both fruits and vegetables.

[eHalcyon]

tl;dr Don't be that guy who says a tomato is a fruit.

Boooooo.  Tomatoes are fruit.  I associate them far more with other fruit like oranges and pears than I do with any veggies.

[ConMan]

A vegetable is a bit of a plant you eat. And genetically, I'm pretty sure bananas are a type of fish.

[Witherweaver]

Dammit, Microsoft. As much effort as you put into making things consistent, there are still strides to be made in others.

Working in Excel: Press Alt+E, S to paste special.
Working in Word: Press Alt+E, S to paste special.
Working in PowerPoint: Press Alt+E, S to paste special.
Working in Outlook: Press Alt+E, S to pas…er, no, to fucking send the e-mail before I'm done. RAGERECALL!

It's like Microsoft is trying to kill off us keyboard users without making it look like they are trying to kill us.

LOG(x) in Excel is not the natural logarithm of x.  Like what the shit, Excel?

[silverspawn]

That sounds normal to me. I'm used to log = log10, ld = log2, ln = loge

[Kuildeous]

LOG(x) in Excel is not the natural logarithm of x.  Like what the shit, Excel?

Hmm, my math is rusty, but when you use LOG in calculations isn't the default assumption base 10? For the natural log, you would normally use LN, right?

I do see that Excel is redundant by having LOG() be the same as LOG10(), though you do have an additional argument for LOG() so you can choose your base (not e, though).

[Witherweaver]

LOG(x) in Excel is not the natural logarithm of x.  Like what the shit, Excel?

Hmm, my math is rusty, but when you use LOG in calculations isn't the default assumption base 10? For the natural log, you would normally use LN, right?

I do see that Excel is redundant by having LOG() be the same as LOG10(), though you do have an additional argument for LOG() so you can choose your base (not e, though).

In standard notation for log, we have 1 = log(e).  "ln" is a (less aesthetic) pseudonym.  You rarely ever use another base, but when you do you just denote it log_b.

[liopoil]

log commonly means natural log in mathematics and some math-intensive sciences. Natural log is the only one that comes up naturally, of which all other logs are just a constant multiple away. So I agree that log should be base e by default.

To convert from log(x) to log_b(x) just divide by log(b), which is a constant. Note that this holds whatever base is the default for log.

It is taught in grade schools that log is base ten and ln is base e, which I think is unfortunate.

[Watno]

log_a(n)=O(log_b(n)) anyway

[Witherweaver]

log_a(n)=O(log_b(n)) anyway

Yes, but when you actually need numbers to match to full precision, using archaic and nonstandard definitions of function names is confusing. 

[Seprix]

These logs are the most natural logs you will ever find.

[Witherweaver]

They're better than bad; they're good.

[Kirian]

So all the animals file two by two off the Ark, and Noah tells them to go forth and multiply.  Almost all the animals shuffle/stampede/slither/fly away, but a pair of snakes stays behind.

Noah comes to them and says, "Did you not hear?  Go forth and multiply!"

One of the snakes says, "But... we cannot multiply."

The other snake says, "We are adders."

Noah replies, "Ah, I can help you."  He goes into a nearby forest and returns with some dead and incredibly wet logs.  Then over the course of a day, he fashions the logs into a crude table, complete with benches.  Finally he takes the two adders and places them on the table.

"What shall we do now?" asks one of the snakes.

Noah says happily, "On a log table, even adders can multiply!"

[Kirian]

Also, I think we've had this discussion before.  Spreadsheets were created for accountants first, then we're adopted by engineers and scientists, almost all of whom use log(x) to indicate base 10.  The few exceptions are some physicists and physical chemists, and even the latter still use ln(x) for the natural log.

The sorts of people who use log(x) to mean base e are the people who don't need spreadsheets anyway: mathematicians and computer scientists, and some physicists.

[Watno]

So all the animals file two by two off the Ark, and Noah tells them to go forth and multiply.  Almost all the animals shuffle/stampede/slither/fly away, but a pair of snakes stays behind.

Noah comes to them and says, "Did you not hear?  Go forth and multiply!"

One of the snakes says, "But... we cannot multiply."

The other snake says, "We are adders."

Noah replies, "Ah, I can help you."  He goes into a nearby forest and returns with some dead and incredibly wet logs.  Then over the course of a day, he fashions the logs into a crude table, complete with benches.  Finally he takes the two adders and places them on the table.

"What shall we do now?" asks one of the snakes.

Noah says happily, "On a log table, even adders can multiply!"

I thought the ruling was that just because the operation results in a multiplication, it is not considered a multiplication?

[Kirian]

And on the previous topic:

[Kuildeous]

So I know that America is considered barbaric in this regard (but not as bad as the Middle East), but nearly all of us use toilet paper after defecating. I've seen some groundbreaking reports of water jets being implemented (not so groundbreaking to other nations I'm sure).

I approve this concept of blasting away the bits, but I wonder how can it be done without splashing water and fecal matter everywhere.

And then there's the matter of drying. This may be a current issue in other countries as well. Are you expected to slide your underwear over your sopping wet ass?

These things are important.

[LastFootnote]

So I know that America is considered barbaric in this regard (but not as bad as the Middle East), but nearly all of us use toilet paper after defecating. I've seen some groundbreaking reports of water jets being implemented (not so groundbreaking to other nations I'm sure).

I approve this concept of blasting away the bits, but I wonder how can it be done without splashing water and fecal matter everywhere.

And then there's the matter of drying. This may be a current issue in other countries as well. Are you expected to slide your underwear over your sopping wet ass?

These things are important.

I do not know the answer to your questions, but have you tried just looking up "bidet" on the internet?

EDIT: I looked it up myself. Short story: bidets are meant to complement toilet paper, not replace it.

[Seprix]

SUDGY IS BACK!!!!!!!

[sudgy]

SUDGY IS BACK!!!!!!!

I mentioned in the V/LA thread...

[ashersky]

He's also within 200 respect of you too.

But it was me who surpassed him some time ago.

EDIT: The list (and a bunch of other lists) are here: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?action=stats

Which I had to check recently after I was shocked to realize how big my total time online was, to make sure that at least some forum gamers still had a bigger amount than me.

This page is so much cooler when Theory lets forum games count.

[schadd]

[Donald X.]

I recommend the acoustic version on The Adventure Club Sessions. Ah, youtube didn't let me down.

[schadd]

thanks babe


i don't know that i like it as much because you can hear what she's saying so much more clearly; "but i'm iiinnn so deeeep" is less charming than "butimeeeiinssooodjeeeeeppp"

[Donald X.]

Dominion Naming Project: https://forums.goodgamery.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7342

[Tables]

Maths lesson today: Year 7 mid ability lesson on fractions. They're basically going through the idea of reciprocals, that 1/x * x = 1 regardless of what number you use for x. After going through basic numbers, the teacher starts putting more exotic things in for x for a mix of fun and to test understanding. So he asks them what goes in the gap to complete 1/😊 * _ = 1, and what goes in the gap to complete 1/log₂5 * _ = 1.

Then he asks 1/4! * _ = 1, and the kid who gets picked just shouts "FOUR!" as the answer. Which yeah, we'll accept that.

Later in the lesson some comment was made about the number 9, and the teacher says something along the lines of "Yes, nine is generally equal to nine. ...Unless it's NINE of course. That's quite different." The kids laughed even though they probably didn't mostly get the joke. I sat there laughing and trying to maintain my composure.

All in all it was a fairly successful lesson. I mean reasonably at least.

[Kuildeous]

"Yes, nine is generally equal to nine. ...Unless it's NINE of course. That's quite different." The kids laughed even though they probably didn't mostly get the joke. I sat there laughing and trying to maintain my composure.

Sadly I don’t get it. Is the upper-case stress supposed to indicate 9! or is there another notation I’m not picking up on?

[pacovf]

Is the upper-case stress supposed to indicate 9! ?

Nein!

[scott_pilgrim]

"Yes, nine is generally equal to nine. ...Unless it's NINE of course. That's quite different." The kids laughed even though they probably didn't mostly get the joke. I sat there laughing and trying to maintain my composure.

Sadly I don’t get it. Is the upper-case stress supposed to indicate 9! or is there another notation I’m not picking up on?

I think the teacher shouted it the same way the student shouted "FOUR!"  Apparently shouting the number is the correct way of verbally indicating that you are taking the factorial of it.

[Tables]

"Yes, nine is generally equal to nine. ...Unless it's NINE of course. That's quite different." The kids laughed even though they probably didn't mostly get the joke. I sat there laughing and trying to maintain my composure.

Sadly I don’t get it. Is the upper-case stress supposed to indicate 9! or is there another notation I’m not picking up on?

I think the teacher shouted it the same way the student shouted "FOUR!"  Apparently shouting the number is the correct way of verbally indicating that you are taking the factorial of it.

I have a Maths degree. Can confirm.

Don't ask about indicating double Factorials in everyday speech.

[liopoil]

They didn't have a problem with log₂5 ? If they don't know what factorial is I wouldn't expect them to know what logs are.

[ConMan]

I don't think they did know, but it didn't matter as long as they understand that whatever it is, 1/log₂5 * log₂5 = 1.

[eHalcyon]

Cyanide is being marketed as a healthy organic super food.

Apricot Kernels are one of the highest natural sources of a rare phytonutrient called amygdalin, also known as vitamin B17, an important nutrient which has largely disappeared from Western diets...

WARNING: Sweet apricot kernels contain amygdalin (Vitamin B17) which can cause symptoms of cyanide poisoning when eaten in excess. DO NOT EAT MORE THAN 8 SEEDS PER DAY. See a doctor immediately if you experience symptoms like nausea, fever, headache, or low blood pressure. Do not eat if you are pregnant or nursing. Not intended for children.

This food contains a nutrient also known as POISON.  Warning: the POISON may cause symptoms of poisoning!

[juffowup]

I recommend the acoustic version on The Adventure Club Sessions. Ah, youtube didn't let me down.

Whoa, Donald X knows Adventure Club!  Did you used to live in DFW, or are you just so into the Cranberries you found a cd from a rad old radio show?  Or did Adventure Club get syndicated at some point?

[Kuildeous]

I think the teacher shouted it the same way the student shouted "FOUR!"  Apparently shouting the number is the correct way of verbally indicating that you are taking the factorial of it.

Okay, then I did get it. When he wrote NINE instead of 9!, I felt like I missed another meaning. I just had a different expectation. The joke is still funny.

I suppose you could give someone an aneurysm by saying 10 – 4 = 3!

[Limetime]

Casual 5$ dominion tournament at a local coffee shop today.

I'm merely speculating on what the rule and sets will be, but: crash course on 4p base Dominion please.  Is Thief good?

Why would you pay 5 dollars to play 4p base dominion?

[Donald X.]

I recommend the acoustic version on The Adventure Club Sessions. Ah, youtube didn't let me down.

Whoa, Donald X knows Adventure Club!  Did you used to live in DFW, or are you just so into the Cranberries you found a cd from a rad old radio show?  Or did Adventure Club get syndicated at some point?

It's none of those things. I got the CD because I found out it existed (I think a record store had shelved it under one of the bands on it) and liked some of the bands on it (I did not know the Cranberries). It's a great CD; the alternate versions are mostly better than the originals, and there are a few good songs that are rare in any form. They said it was the start of a series, but I don't think there was ever another volume. On the strength of the CD, I would have listened to the show if it had been available.

[Seprix]

I tried not using an avatar for a day, because that is what everyone else does for some reason. I don't get the hype.

[Kuildeous]

I tried not using an avatar for a day, because that is what everyone else does for some reason. I don't get the hype.

Usually I don’t bother with an avatar because I don’t care enough to go through the steps.

Then I have to find a picture.

The only reason I chose an avatar here is because I was playing The Claw in a Cosmic Encounter game, and I thought it might help the players differentiate who I am.

[silverspawn]

I tried not using an avatar for a day, because that is what everyone else does for some reason. I don't get the hype.

Usually I don’t bother with an avatar because I don’t care enough to go through the steps.

Then I have to find a picture.

The only reason I chose an avatar here is because I was playing The Claw in a Cosmic Encounter game, and I thought it might help the players differentiate who I am.

you under-appreciate the importance of an avatar greatly. I associate everyone with his avatar. The choice of how his avatar looks can even change my perception of his character.

[LastFootnote]

you under-appreciate the importance of an avatar greatly. I associate everyone with his avatar. The choice of how his avatar looks can even change my perception of his character.

That's ridiculous! You're such a silly pony.

[Seprix]

you under-appreciate the importance of an avatar greatly. I associate everyone with his avatar. The choice of how his avatar looks can even change my perception of his character.

That's ridiculous! You're such a silly pony.

Nice one.

[Chris is me]

Avatars are tricky. You want something reasonably unique but meaningful to you.

I don't think I could ever do a card art avatar, because it's quite easy for me to pick the same art as somebody else. That would be confusing, and kind of defeat the purpose.

So being a Hipster that is Too Cool for the Popular Trend of using card art avatars, I picked a late 90's album that's dear to my heart. Seems fitting really. Not the most popular thing in the world, and hardcore board gamers aren't the biggest indie rock snobs, so no chance of avatar collision, right?

Nah, I've seen at least one other person with the same album art for their avatar regardless. Guess there's not much I can do.

[Awaclus]

To me, having an avatar is kind of like wearing clothes.

[jsh357]

Avatars are tricky. You want something reasonably unique but meaningful to you.

I don't think I could ever do a card art avatar, because it's quite easy for me to pick the same art as somebody else. That would be confusing, and kind of defeat the purpose.

So being a Hipster that is Too Cool for the Popular Trend of using card art avatars, I picked a late 90's album that's dear to my heart. Seems fitting really. Not the most popular thing in the world, and hardcore board gamers aren't the biggest indie rock snobs, so no chance of avatar collision, right?

Nah, I've seen at least one other person with the same album art for their avatar regardless. Guess there's not much I can do.

I do have the album, but haven't used album art as an avatar. One time I considered using In the Aeroplane over the sea, but that was a few years before it turned out to be a meme, and I don't want people thinking I chose it because of that. I don't really like avatars much myself, but I realize they help people identify who is posting. I usually pick characters I like from media.

[Kuildeous]

The choice of how his avatar looks can even change my perception of his character.

Ooh, that’s a good point. I’ve now removed my avatar.

I may have been unintentionally judging people on their avatars, and I don’t want to subject everyone else to that burden.

[silverspawn]

but that wasn't at all what I meant 

[Seprix]

Avatars are tricky. You want something reasonably unique but meaningful to you.

I don't think I could ever do a card art avatar, because it's quite easy for me to pick the same art as somebody else. That would be confusing, and kind of defeat the purpose.

So being a Hipster that is Too Cool for the Popular Trend of using card art avatars, I picked a late 90's album that's dear to my heart. Seems fitting really. Not the most popular thing in the world, and hardcore board gamers aren't the biggest indie rock snobs, so no chance of avatar collision, right?

Nah, I've seen at least one other person with the same album art for their avatar regardless. Guess there's not much I can do.

I never knew that. I always assumed you made some weird avatar by yourself with Microsoft paint, and I first thought that weird horn thing was a screaming stick figure.

The choice of how his avatar looks can even change my perception of his character.

Ooh, that’s a good point. I’ve now removed my avatar.

I may have been unintentionally judging people on their avatars, and I don’t want to subject everyone else to that burden.

But I liked the robot!  Why oh why did I bring up avatars!?

[eHalcyon]

The choice of how his avatar looks can even change my perception of his character.

Ooh, that’s a good point. I’ve now removed my avatar.

I may have been unintentionally judging people on their avatars, and I don’t want to subject everyone else to that burden.

I'm judging you for your lack of character.

[Ichimaru Gin]

But I liked the robot!  Why oh why did I bring up avatars!?

The world is filled with those who have said, "I wish I had never asked that."

[Kuildeous]

The choice of how his avatar looks can even change my perception of his character.

Ooh, that’s a good point. I’ve now removed my avatar.

I may have been unintentionally judging people on their avatars, and I don’t want to subject everyone else to that burden.

I'm judging you for your lack of character.

That’s totally fair. I’m pretty amoral.

But it does raise a good point. If I am not familiar with that person, I may well make judgment calls about him if he has a picture of a gun or Bernie Sanders or the Obama hope poster or a crucifix.

I should be judging people on what they post.

Also if they use apostrophes for plurals. I judge the shit out of those guys.

[Seprix]

The choice of how his avatar looks can even change my perception of his character.

Ooh, that’s a good point. I’ve now removed my avatar.

I may have been unintentionally judging people on their avatars, and I don’t want to subject everyone else to that burden.

I'm judging you for your lack of character.

That’s totally fair. I’m pretty amoral.

But it does raise a good point. If I am not familiar with that person, I may well make judgment calls about him if he has a picture of a gun or Bernie Sanders or the Obama hope poster or a crucifix.

I should be judging people on what they post.

Also if they use apostrophes for plurals. I judge the shit out of those guys.

I do not judge people based on their avatars, it only helps me remember who they are in the first place. A faceless name means less to me than someone with an avatar.

Plus, there's the argument that you will never be without bias no matter what you do.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Wait wait, maybe this should be its own thread, but I want silver to analyze what my avatar says about me!
edit: grammar

[Seprix]

Wait wait, maybe this should be its own thread, but I want silver to analyze what my avatar says about me!
edit: grammar

You are clearly a flamboyant robot. I am clearly a confused Roman. But is it so clear? After all, if I am confused, would it not be clear to me at all? Perhaps I perceive that it could potentially be clear, but I am not positive about it.

[silverspawn]

But it does raise a good point. If I am not familiar with that person, I may well make judgment calls about him if he has a picture of a gun or Bernie Sanders or the Obama hope poster or a crucifix.

I should be judging people on what they post.

Also if they use apostrophes for plurals. I judge the shit out of those guys.

But the avatar you choose is a conscious decision. It does say something about your character. Why is it okay to judge people on what they post, but not on which avatar they choose?

[Kuildeous]

You are clearly a flamboyant robot. I am clearly a confused Roman. But is it so clear? After all, if I am confused, would it not be clear to me at all? Perhaps I perceive that it could potentially be clear, but I am not positive about it.

Pfft, everyone knows that Ichi is the confused robot and you’re the flamboyant Roman.

[Kuildeous]

But the avatar you choose is a conscious decision. It does say something about your character. Why is it okay to judge people on what they post, but not on which avatar they choose?

Some people are down with that. I’d just rather be judged for what I post.

What if someone hated Futurama? I know, I know, I should quit talking crazy talk, right? But suppose there is some theoretical madman madder than the edge of space who actually hates Futurama? Now this hypothetical person would see my Clamps avatar and subconsciously (and possibly out loud because he’s mad) say, “This Kuildeous doesn’t know what he’s talking about, because he has a Futurama avatar, so I’m going to ignore every third word of his post and then laugh at how dumb he sounds,” again because he’s mad.

Okay, you can now all relax. That was just a hypothetical. Nobody is that deranged.

[Seprix]

I'd argue that 50% of the internet is that deranged. But I suppose that's the joke.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Awaclus = role model

Seprix = dishonest role model

silverspawn = senpai

[Awaclus]

Wait wait, maybe this should be its own thread, but I want silver to analyze what my avatar says about me!

Me too! Especially considering that he thinks the taijitu is a bird.

[Polk5440]

I don't show users' avatars or signatures. I am still waiting for the option to "don't show posts with memes."

[pacovf]

Nah, I've seen at least one other person with the same album art for their avatar regardless. Guess there's not much I can do.

Infthitbox?

My avatar is from a flash (?) game, flOw. It's relaxing and pretty and strangely engaging.  I started using it 6 years ago, and haven't found anything better yet.

[silverspawn]

Wait wait, maybe this should be its own thread, but I want silver to analyze what my avatar says about me!

Me too! Especially considering that he thinks the taijitu is a bird.

Ah, well. I'd say Your avatar shows a lack of respect for conventional wisdom and a confidence in your beliefs, and also that you like trapping helpless birds.

IG's current avatar doesn't tell me much because I don't know what it is.

And both (mostly Awaclus') show that you put thought into your online appearance, because you chose something stylistic

[silverspawn]

What if someone hated Futurama? I know, I know, I should quit talking crazy talk, right? But suppose there is some theoretical madman madder than the edge of space who actually hates Futurama? Now this hypothetical person would see my Clamps avatar and subconsciously (and possibly out loud because he’s mad) say, “This Kuildeous doesn’t know what he’s talking about, because he has a Futurama avatar, so I’m going to ignore every third word of his post and then laugh at how dumb he sounds,” again because he’s mad.

Okay, you can now all relax. That was just a hypothetical. Nobody is that deranged.

Not having an avatar does not stop you from others judging you based on your avatar, though - now they're judging the fact that you don't have one. That could mean things like you don't care that much about your appearance, or that you haven't bothered to look for how to change it, or maybe other things, most of which negative (from my PoV).

Also, people will associate you more for what you post if you have an avatar, because then they'll remember you as the guy who posted it. If you didn't have one, I might be yet to associate anything with your name, or only have started doing so recently.

[Haddock]

A faceless name

A Kuildeous is finally noone.

Jeez my avatar is OLD.  I don't even know where I originally found it, but I've been using it for online stuff ever since I started going by Haddock, which is more than a decade ago now.  Wouldn't want to change it.

[Accatitippi]

A faceless name

A Kuildeous is finally noone.

I thought a Kuildeous was still a WanderingWinder?

[Kuildeous]

Storytime:

My first foray into the online world was when I was 15 years old. A friend of mine showed me his modem and logged onto a BBS. So naturally I used it to create my first handle: Black Dragon. I then went to reading a room that was basically a dumping ground for people bitching at each other, including one woman who appropriately went by the name Bitch Cowgirl. So being this super-suave (spoiler alert: not) 15-year-old boy, I contributed fuck-all to the conversation by trying to woo this woman. My cheesy-ass winning line was, “They don’t call me the Black Draggggggin for nothing.”

Later when I talked with one of the netizens, he said that he thought that was the funniest thing he read at the time and commended me on my brilliant trolling. I was too ashamed to tell him that I was sadly serious about it.

So there you go; first time online, and I went and sexually harassed someone. Kids are dumb.

I took Kuildeous later on in high school. Not that I ran into many Black Dragons online, but Kuildeous was far less likely to collide on another BBS.

[ashersky]

Why did they call you the Black Dragon?

[Haddock]

Why did they call you the Black Dragon?

Dduuuuuuuuddddddeee.  New avatar.

Sweet.

[2.71828.....]

Trying to fly out of SeaTac, but today is the day that Obama has to come visit Seattle. I mean, it's great and all, but grounding my flight because of it is not so great

[Seprix]

Trying to fly out of SeaTac, but today is the day that Obama has to come visit Seattle. I mean, it's great and all, but grounding my flight because of it is not so great

[Kirian]

Trying to fly out of SeaTac, but today is the day that Obama has to come visit Seattle. I mean, it's great and all, but grounding my flight because of it is not so great

Fly!  Be free!

[silverspawn]

I wish the birds would have the decency not to start chirping until I fall asleep. It's depressing 

[pacovf]

I wish the birds would have the decency not to start chirping until I fall asleep. It's depressing 

Been there, done that...

[Kirian]

http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/03/animals.html

[Seprix]

I found this amazing article: http://www.riverfronttimes.com/musicblog/2015/01/28/six-reasons-musicians-dont-deserve-to-get-paid

I don't know why, but it's a hilariously written article. I'm pretty sure it is satire.

[silverspawn]

There is interestingly substance to most of those points, the conclusion just doesn't follow.

[Seprix]

There is interestingly substance to most of those points, the conclusion just doesn't follow.

None of those things are truly valid reasons for musicians to not get paid, which is why it is hilarious. They may all be true, but they do not follow, as you say.

[Kuildeous]

It’s a more subtle form of satire, which I’m a fan of. The responses are giving me a chuckle.

Now I’m just waiting to hear about some club owner showing this article to a band to justify not paying them.

[Seprix]

It’s a more subtle form of satire, which I’m a fan of. The responses are giving me a chuckle.

Now I’m just waiting to hear about some club owner showing this article to a band to justify not paying them.

He actually wrote a reply to mail he got regarding the article, which I found even funnier.

http://www.riverfronttimes.com/musicblog/2015/02/12/six-people-who-wish-i-were-dead

The only thing I don't like as much is that he revealed personal information about people, just because of the threat of doxxing.

I love the article title. it's such obvious clickbait considering it's the internet. I feel like this writer is writing on so many levels. I tweeted him yesterday, telling him his article was great. And I got a reply! He even lives in Minneapolis!

[Tables]

Did you invite him to F.DS? Did you tell him about the Forum Games?

[Seprix]

Did you invite him to F.DS? Did you tell him about the Forum Games?

Ahh, I should do that!

[Seprix]

I'm so sick of the constant tons of Adventures cards that I am going to play from now on with bias towards every set but Adventures.

[silverspawn]

I'm so sick of the constant tons of Adventures cards that I am going to play from now on with bias towards every set but Adventures.

   

[Roadrunner7671]

I'm so sick of the constant tons of Adventures cards that I am going to play from now on with bias towards every set but Adventures.

WFT man? I have a bias towards ONLY Adventures becayse I haven't played with those yet online!

[jsh357]

I can agree with the sentiment, if only because I think kingdoms with too many Adventures cards tend to get pretty crazy (I also prefer travelers to not show up every other game). By next year people will have moved on and Adventures should be in a more normal distribution.

[Watno]

I'm so sick of the constant tons of Adventures cards that I am going to play from now on with bias towards every set but Adventures.

WFT man? I have a bias towards ONLY Adventures becayse I haven't played with those yet online!

I think that's the point. Since many people bias towards adventures, if you want to see all cards the same amount of times, you have to bias to everything else to even it out

[Kirian]

That feeling when you were having a really interesting game, and your opponent is leading, and then they disconnect.   I feel bad for them!

[Witherweaver]

That feeling when you were having a really interesting game, and your opponent is leading, and then they disconnect.   I feel bad for them!

Right up until you see your rating go up.

[Kirian]

That feeling when you were having a really interesting game, and your opponent is leading, and then they disconnect.   I feel bad for them!

Right up until you see your rating go up.

Actually, they got reconnected!  And it was a good game!  And I lost.

[Awaclus]

I just went to my profile, saw the cake and realized that it's actually my birthday now.

[Roadrunner7671]

I just went to my profile, saw the cake and realized that it's actually my birthday now.

I hope you're joking.

So now you can legally drink (in the USA)?

[Awaclus]

I just went to my profile, saw the cake and realized that it's actually my birthday now.

I hope you're joking.

So now you can legally drink (in the USA)?

I have been legally drinking in Finland for three years already.

And no, I actually wasn't joking.

[Awaclus]

In other news, my military service is starting tomorrow!

[Seprix]

In other news, my military service is starting tomorrow!

I'm so sorry.

[Roadrunner7671]

In other news, my military service is starting tomorrow!

I'm so sorry.

[Awaclus]

Why? There's all kinds of cool stuff there that I would never be able to experience anywhere else. I'm super excited about it.

[Seprix]

Why? There's all kinds of cool stuff there that I would never be able to experience anywhere else.

As long as you're not getting shot up in a shitty war.

[Awaclus]

Well, we don't usually get involved in shitty wars here in Finland. It's been 70 years since the last time.

[Roadrunner7671]

Why? There's all kinds of cool stuff there that I would never be able to experience anywhere else.

As long as you're not getting shot up in a shitty war.

Oh that's not why I was sorry.

[Seprix]

Well, we don't usually get involved in shitty wars here in Finland. It's been 70 years since the last time.

Well, that's not half as bad then.

[Archetype]

In other news, my military service is starting tomorrow!

Is military service in Finland required?

[SpaceAnemone]

/tag

[Witherweaver]

/tag

You're it.

[Awaclus]

Is military service in Finland required?

For healthy non-Jehovah's Witness men, a military service or the alternative service is required. For women and Jehovah's Witnesses, it's optional. Those who aren't physically or mentally healthy enough aren't allowed in. I would complete it even if it wasn't required, though, so I'm not super complaining, but in the grand scheme of things, this model kind of sucks in a multitude of different ways.

[Watno]

It's so ridiculous there is not more outrage about mandatory conscription that's only for males.

[Roadrunner7671]

It's so ridiculous there is not more outrage about mandatory conscription that's only for males.

I completely agree

[jsh357]

It's so ridiculous there is not more outrage about mandatory conscription that's only for males.

It probably just seems different coming from a US perspective since we can't seem to stay out of wars. It's our national pastime. There's more to say here, but it's likely RSP territory.

[Watno]

I opened a thread in RSP, curious what you believe there is to say about this.

[Seprix]

It's so ridiculous there is not more outrage about mandatory conscription that's only for males.

I can't imagine many women are pissed about it, and men would look like wimps if they complained about it.

[Archetype]

Is military service in Finland required?

For healthy non-Jehovah's Witness men, a military service or the alternative service is required. For women and Jehovah's Witnesses, it's optional. Those who aren't physically or mentally healthy enough aren't allowed in. I would complete it even if it wasn't required, though, so I'm not super complaining, but in the grand scheme of things, this model kind of sucks in a multitude of different ways.

Very interesting. Without straying into RSP too much, I feel like it'd be good for defense from a nationalist standpoint, but I'm not sure I'd support a similar system in a country actively engaging in armed conflict like the USA. Regardless, kudos to you for serving.

[silverspawn]

It's so ridiculous there is not more outrage about mandatory conscription that's only for males.

I can't imagine many women are pissed about it, and men would look like wimps if they complained about it.

I would complain about it if it hadn't been removed in germany. Mandatory serving in the military is unbelievably idiotic for anyone in my opinion.

[ConMan]

While I'm happy we don't have it here, there are some decent arguments for some countries having National Service. I agree that if a country has it, it shouldn't be restricted to men.

[SpaceAnemone]

/tag

You're it.

I am! But saying something stupid there made the annoying captchas go away for posting on Haddock's BSG game.

[Kuildeous]

Fun misunderstanding:

I told my co-worker that my pet rats were all sorts of hyper last night. They were probably in heat.

She said that it’s the opposite for her; she gets really sleepy.

[sudgy]

Bane of my existence: makefiles.

[qmech]

Bane of my existence: makefiles.

First reaction: what's a makefly?

[Tables]

Bane of my existence: makefiles.

First reaction: what's a makefly?

It tells you who made a product. Don't call me fly again.

[silverspawn]

I am right now tweaking my signature. Does anyone find this one too large/flashy/distracting/etc ? (referring of course to the image)

[Kuildeous]

I am right now tweaking my signature. Does anyone find this one too large/flashy/distracting/etc ? (referring of course to the image)

You mean the yin-yang gear? I think it's respectfully out of the way and moves in a way that is pretty subtle. It has no jumpy graphics or flashing elements. In a sense, it's actually quite soothing with it's motion.

As far as signatures go, I think it's a winner. Could make a great avatar, actually.

[silverspawn]

ah, very good. From what I've gathered on deviantart, it was actually meant as the avatar for someone.

[Watno]

I have played over 700 different board games now.

[schadd]

I have played over 700 differently named board games now.

[pacovf]

So Abominable Charles Christopher started updating again and nobody told me.

[Kuildeous]

So it turns out I can cry on stage. I’m doing a show that has a rather emotional scene, and my character breaks down.

I honestly didn’t know what was going to happen with that scene. I expected some body movements to show that I was sobbing, but I was able to bring forth actual tears (and actual mucus—good thing I have no lines left to say at that point). It’s kind of a weird feeling. Also, vulnerable as hell, but that’s the artist way.

Rehearsal was killing me because the director had us do that scene three more times. Each time she said she wanted to see it again, I was silently cursing her.

And even when I’m not rehearsing, I find myself getting weepy for no reason. Fucking theatre, man.

[eHalcyon]

So Abominable Charles Christopher started updating again and nobody told me.

Didn't realize there were other fans to tell here.

[Roadrunner7671]

If you're on the forum instead of on the news, there was a coup in Turkey.

[Seprix]

If you're on the forum instead of on the news, there was a coup in Turkey.

#f.dsShaming

But yes, I heard about it. It can only end poorly.

[Limetime]

If you're on the forum instead of on the news, there was a coup in Turkey.

News makes you sad. Always.

[Roadrunner7671]

If you're on the forum instead of on the news, there was a coup in Turkey.

#f.dsShaming

But yes, I heard about it. It can only end poorly.

I disagree.

[Seprix]

If you're on the forum instead of on the news, there was a coup in Turkey.

#f.dsShaming

But yes, I heard about it. It can only end poorly.

I disagree.

Name some military coups that ended well.

[eHalcyon]

If you're on the forum instead of on the news, there was a coup in Turkey.

News makes you sad. Always.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/donald-trump/12043586/Donald-Trump-attacked-by-a-bald-eagle-during-Time-Magazine-shoot.html

[Roadrunner7671]

If you're on the forum instead of on the news, there was a coup in Turkey.

#f.dsShaming

But yes, I heard about it. It can only end poorly.

I disagree.

Name some military coups that ended well.

This one doesn't have to result in government takeover or anything. It just need to let the government know how everyone feels. Which would've been great except the civilians ruined it, sort of.

RSP anyone?

[Seprix]

If you're on the forum instead of on the news, there was a coup in Turkey.

#f.dsShaming

But yes, I heard about it. It can only end poorly.

I disagree.

Name some military coups that ended well.

This one doesn't have to result in government takeover or anything. It just need to let the government know how everyone feels. Which would've been great except the civilians ruined it, sort of.

RSP anyone?

Except it is not the people who took over, but the military.

[Roadrunner7671]

If you're on the forum instead of on the news, there was a coup in Turkey.

#f.dsShaming

But yes, I heard about it. It can only end poorly.

I disagree.

Name some military coups that ended well.

This one doesn't have to result in government takeover or anything. It just need to let the government know how everyone feels. Which would've been great except the civilians ruined it, sort of.

RSP anyone?

Except it is not the people who took over, but the military.

>Implying people in the military aren't people

But really, the people should've seen that a coup falling into their laps was something they should take advantage of.

[Seprix]

>Implying people in the military aren't people

But really, the people should've seen that a coup falling into their laps was something they should take advantage of.

That's not really how it works.

[eHalcyon]

This one doesn't have to result in government takeover or anything. It just need to let the government know how everyone feels. Which would've been great except the civilians ruined it, sort of.

RSP anyone?

Except it is not the people who took over, but the military.

>Implying people in the military aren't people

But really, the people should've seen that a coup falling into their laps was something they should take advantage of.

The definition of "civilian" is basically "not military", so I don't see how Seprix is implying that military aren't people.  Military aren't civilian.

[silverspawn]

I just googled "dreams cause pollution" and got zero results. now that I typed "dreams cause pollution" into a public forum, will I get one? Let me see...

edit: I do not! scam!

[Seprix]

I just googled "dreams cause pollution" and got zero results. now that I typed "dreams cause pollution" into a public forum, will I get one? Let me see...

edit: I do not! scam!

The German Authorities must be censoring more than 'hate speech'. Googling it gave me tons of things to look at.

[LastFootnote]

I just googled "dreams cause pollution" and got zero results. now that I typed "dreams cause pollution" into a public forum, will I get one? Let me see...

edit: I do not! scam!

The German Authorities must be censoring more than 'hate speech'. Googling it gave me tons of things to look at.

Did you use quotes?

[eHalcyon]

[popsofctown]

https://store.playstation.com/#!/en-us/games/addons/guilty-gear-xrd-revelator-playable-character-dizzy/cid=UP1024-CUSA04112_00-GGXRDDAT00001002

[Burning Skull]

Help me f.ds, I summon thee!


We are playing Carcassonne, I have a mayor in a city, can I put a Builder there (I guess the question is whether a mayor counts as a knight or not)?

[LostPhoenix]

Help me f.ds, I summon thee!


We are playing Carcassonne, I have a mayor in a city, can I put a Builder there (I guess the question is whether a mayor counts as a knight or not)?

Mayor counts as a knight.

[Watno]

if mayor=big meeple and knight=small meeple, no

[Burning Skull]

if mayor=big meeple and knight=small meeple, no

nope, mayor = mayor from Abbey And Mayor

[Watno]

then i have no clue

[Tables]

I just changed to Windows 10. I'm not using the word update, because after having used it for about 20 minutes I'm pretty certain that's not a word it deserves me using.

[LastFootnote]

I just changed to Windows 10. I'm not using the word update, because after having used it for about 20 minutes I'm pretty certain that's not a word it deserves me using.

"Downdate"?

Which OS did you change from?

[Tables]

I just changed to Windows 10. I'm not using the word update, because after having used it for about 20 minutes I'm pretty certain that's not a word it deserves me using.

"Downdate"?

Which OS did you change from?

Windows 7. I've spent the last few hours trying to work out why my mousepad no longer scrolls vertically, downloading new drivers, updating and reverting drivers, working without a mouse as things just don't seem to be recognised or work properly on Windows 10. I decided screw it, it isn't worth it, I'll revert to Windows 7, since that's an option from one month after updating - and it wasn't there for some reason. It won't let me revert to Windows 7 in other words.

[LastFootnote]

I've spent the last few hours trying to work out why my mousepad no longer scrolls vertically, downloading new drivers, updating and reverting drivers, working without a mouse as things just don't seem to be recognised or work properly on Windows 10. I decided screw it, it isn't worth it, I'll revert to Windows 7, since that's an option from one month after updating - and it wasn't there for some reason. It won't let me revert to Windows 7 in other words.

Damn, I'm sorry. I'm glad I haven't switched from Windows 7 myself. Though it's not from a lack of Windows itself trying to convince me to update.

[Awaclus]

I just changed to Windows 10. I'm not using the word update, because after having used it for about 20 minutes I'm pretty certain that's not a word it deserves me using.

"Downdate"?

Which OS did you change from?

Windows 7. I've spent the last few hours trying to work out why my mousepad no longer scrolls vertically, downloading new drivers, updating and reverting drivers, working without a mouse as things just don't seem to be recognised or work properly on Windows 10. I decided screw it, it isn't worth it, I'll revert to Windows 7, since that's an option from one month after updating - and it wasn't there for some reason. It won't let me revert to Windows 7 in other words.

Should have gotten 8.1 instead.

[silverspawn]

Windows 7 is really good and nothing else from microsoft is afaik. Stay with Windows 7. Never leave.

[Seprix]

Windows 7 is really good and nothing else from microsoft is afaik. Stay with Windows 7. Never leave.

...ooooooor get a Mac.

[Tables]

So I've finally managed to find and install a driver which a) Works properly, b) Doesn't instantly try and revert to another driver, c) Has edge scrolling as an option.

I'm suddenly considerably happier with my downgrade to Windows 10. It feels like I haven't lost anything significant now except time.

[singletee]

So I've finally managed to find and install a driver which a) Works properly, b) Doesn't instantly try and revert to another driver, c) Has edge scrolling as an option.

I'm suddenly considerably happier with my downgrade to Windows 10. It feels like I haven't lost anything significant now except time.

The thing I like the least is the new UI for Settings. The Control Panel was fine; why change it (for the worse)? Luckily, the old Control Panel is still there but it is sometimes a pain to get to.

[Tables]

I actually find the new settings menu pretty intuitive and well laid out. I can find things in it more quickly than I could in Control Panel, and well I'd used the Control Panel several times on Win7 and before vs. only using Settings today.

[Donald X.]

I've spent the last few hours trying to work out why my mousepad no longer scrolls vertically, downloading new drivers, updating and reverting drivers, working without a mouse as things just don't seem to be recognised or work properly on Windows 10. I decided screw it, it isn't worth it, I'll revert to Windows 7, since that's an option from one month after updating - and it wasn't there for some reason. It won't let me revert to Windows 7 in other words.

Damn, I'm sorry. I'm glad I haven't switched from Windows 7 myself. Though it's not from a lack of Windows itself trying to convince me to update.

Dude. I downloaded a program to stop it from pushing Windows 10 at me. http://ultimateoutsider.com/downloads/

[sudgy]

Windows 10 isn't horrible.  It's better than 8.  I'll admit that I haven't used 7 that much, but I have Windows 10 and it's worked fine for me.

Well, other than the fact that I just came back from some weird computer problems that seemed like hardware issues that got fixed by a system restore.

[Chris is me]

While we're on the subject, does anyone know of a way to actually clean install Windows 10 on a computer instead of just upgrading an existing version of Windows? It's about that time of the decade where I wipe my hard drive instead of upgrading, but I can't find an obvious way to do this.

[Kirian]

I find the horror stories about Win10 upgrades surprising.  We've upgraded three computers, two of which are custom builds, and have had zero issues.

[Seprix]

While we're on the subject, does anyone know of a way to actually clean install Windows 10 on a computer instead of just upgrading an existing version of Windows? It's about that time of the decade where I wipe my hard drive instead of upgrading, but I can't find an obvious way to do this.

...buy a new hard drive?

[Accatitippi]

I cleanly installed Win 10 after an 8.1 update suddently made windows unable to cooperate with pretty much all drivers on an 1-yr old pc. (microsoft says it was the manifacturer's fault, but I somewhat doubt it)
I had to fix a couple of settings for the motherboard driver to make standby work as intended, but done that I never looked back. From the UI point of view, I like that I can pretend to have never heard of "start screens" and "settings menus" and whatnot.
It doesn't run CiV, but I haven't tried hard either, and maybe that's for the best.

[Accatitippi]

While we're on the subject, does anyone know of a way to actually clean install Windows 10 on a computer instead of just upgrading an existing version of Windows? It's about that time of the decade where I wipe my hard drive instead of upgrading, but I can't find an obvious way to do this.

I think that you could download the dvd/usb wizard installer from Microsoft's. Using that (on an usb drive) gave me the option to format my HDD.
Everybody I spoke about recommended doing this over using the wonky upgrade feature.

[Witherweaver]

I cleanly installed Win 10 after an 8.1 update suddently made windows unable to cooperate with pretty much all drivers on an 1-yr old pc. (microsoft says it was the manifacturer's fault, but I somewhat doubt it)
I had to fix a couple of settings for the motherboard driver to make standby work as intended, but done that I never looked back. From the UI point of view, I like that I can pretend to have never heard of "start screens" and "settings menus" and whatnot.
It doesn't run CiV, but I haven't tried hard either, and maybe that's for the best.

Standby is the feature whereby you need to hard shut off and power back on your computer to get it to do anything, right?   So useful.

[Seprix]

I'm going to protest the lack of capitalization by some users on this board by typing in a different font face.

[Kuildeous]

I'm going to protest the lack of capitalization by some users on this board by typing in a different font face.

ee cummings is not amused by your shenanigans.

[Seprix]

I'm going to protest the lack of capitalization by some users on this board by typing in a different font face.

ee cummings is not amused by your shenanigans.

I've never understood your new avatar. Is it VATAR or RAVAT? It could also be ARAVATARAVATARAVATARAVATA.

[silverspawn]

I'm going to protest the lack of capitalization by some users on this board by typing in a different font face.

ee cummings is not amused by your shenanigans.

I've never understood your new avatar. Is it VATAR or RAVAT? It could also be ARAVATARAVATARAVATARAVATA.

it's "avatar"

[Darth Vader]

How come there were no force ghosts in that new Ghostbusters movie? I was really disappointed. 4/10.

[Seprix]

I think I'll make one or two of these for kicks in the future. Most of them aren't that funny, though the last two are great.

[Roadrunner7671]

Please explain Seprix

[ConMan]

Please explain Seprix

Seprix is the username associated with an individual who reads and contributes to the Dominion Strategy forums.

[Roadrunner7671]

Please explain Seprix

Seprix is the username associated with an individual who reads and contributes to the Dominion Strategy forums.

I was waiting for Awaclus but you'll do

[Kuildeous]

Please explain Seprix

Man, there’s no explaining Seprix.

He can provide the true meaning, but I’ll give my interpretation of it just to see if I’m right.

I read it as the delayed response of Dominion cards. Most of the time, you buy something to use later. You rarely buy something for an immediate effect—and this is definitely true with Chancellor. So you recruit him for his deck-flipping ability, but you don’t benefit from it until he shows up in your hand. You could replace him with the Smithy or the Chapel.

Now do one with two terminal actions duking it out (but not literally the Duke since he’s not an action).

[silverspawn]

he's not better than me, though.

[Seprix]

Please explain Seprix

I don't think I'm that mysterious. If I was, I'd have chicks all over me and I'd be pretty hip.

[markusin]

Please explain Seprix

Man, there’s no explaining Seprix.

He can provide the true meaning, but I’ll give my interpretation of it just to see if I’m right.

I read it as the delayed response of Dominion cards. Most of the time, you buy something to use later. You rarely buy something for an immediate effect—and this is definitely true with Chancellor. So you recruit him for his deck-flipping ability, but you don’t benefit from it until he shows up in your hand. You could replace him with the Smithy or the Chapel.

Now do one with two terminal actions duking it out (but not literally the Duke since he’s not an action).

I read it as, you buy Chancellor hoping for it to discard your deck, only for you to not want to do so when you actually draw it the first few times.

[silverspawn]

only the german chancellor actually discards decks. the english one just puts the deck into the discard pile.

[pacovf]

There's a joke about Merkel there somewhere, someone please help me out.

[silverspawn]

There's a joke about Merkel there somewhere, someone please help me out.

I wish :/ I only said it 'cause it's true. It matters for Tunnel.

[Seprix]

There's a joke about Merkel there somewhere, someone please help me out.

The only jokes that come to mind are RSP. Specifically, the Politics.

[Witherweaver]

Dear Windows 10:

Tiles are fucking retarded.  What is wrong with you?

It would be nice to pin certain applications to the start menu, and then have them displayed as a simple list (in the same way that Settings, Power, etc. are).  Some site claims that you're able to drag shortcuts to the Start icon and it will pin them to the left side of the menu, but this does not seem to work. 

Anyone know how to do this? 

Also, why do Microsoft developers go out of their way to create really ugly, obnoxious, and annoying user interfaces?

[silverspawn]

I've just had a short internet crash and now a ton of sites are down-- quicktopic being one of them. Did something happen?

[silverspawn]

including google!

edit: oh apparently my browser is at fault. super weird because this forum is the only thing that's working. But good, I was already getting worried.

[Seprix]

why do Microsoft developers go out of their way to create really ugly, obnoxious, and annoying user interfaces?

Because they want to be Macs.

[eHalcyon]

including google!

edit: oh apparently my browser is at fault. super weird because this forum is the only thing that's working. But good, I was already getting worried.

That's because this forum isn't online.  You were randomly chosen to unknowingly evaluate numerous advanced AIs.  This forum is one big Turing test.  How are we doing?  Are we convincing humans?

[silverspawn]

including google!

edit: oh apparently my browser is at fault. super weird because this forum is the only thing that's working. But good, I was already getting worried.

That's because this forum isn't online.  You were randomly chosen to unknowingly evaluate numerous advanced AIs.  This forum is one big Turing test.  How are we doing?  Are we convincing humans?

That comment would probably be less scary if i hadn't just watched a slice of life highschool show where the main character is really insane and in truth it's a zombie apocalypse.

AI using WIFOM in a turing test is pretty advanced. almost convincing.

[ConMan]

That comment would probably be less scary if i hadn't just watched a slice of life highschool show where the main character is really insane and in truth it's a zombie apocalypse.

I watched the first episode of that, wondering how far in the zombies would actually show up. Somehow, like in so many other such obvious cases, I missed the twist. Also, I think I can live without another zombie show.

[silverspawn]

It's not amazing, and I can't stand the fanservice. But there's still lots of less interesting stuff out there one could watch.

[Seprix]

It's not amazing, and I can't stand the fanservice.

I bet you just love Doctor Who then.

[Seprix]

Fun fact: Sick of moving the mouse and pressing Post? Press Alt-S for a quick short cut instead.

[silverspawn]

It's not amazing, and I can't stand the fanservice.

I bet you just love Doctor Who then.

Actually I once tried to watch it and dropped it early into the first episode.

[Seprix]

It's not amazing, and I can't stand the fanservice.

I bet you just love Doctor Who then.

Actually I once tried to watch it and dropped it early into the first episode.

It gets good after the first 5 or so episodes. It peaks right about in Season 3-4, and then it's all downhill from there. Some really cool episodes though. Glad I watched it. But it's boring now. I could rant about it, but that's a topic for another thread.

[gkrieg13]

Fun fact: Sick of moving the mouse and pressing Post? Press Alt-S for a quick short cut instead.

Tab + enter also works

[silverspawn]

Fun fact: Sick of moving the mouse and pressing Post? Press Alt-S for a quick short cut instead.

Tab + enter also works

that works for me! alt + s doesn't.

[ConMan]

On a Mac, it's something like ctrl+shift+s.

[qmech]

Esc-Meta-Alt-Shift-@ in Emacs.

[ashersky]

I'm eating gelato.

[gkrieg13]

I'm eating gelato.

I'm jealousato

[Seprix]

I had some ice cream yesterday. I wonder if someone is jealous cream.

[schadd]

jealous cream

that's my favorite uh porn category

[Seprix]

jealous cream

that's my favorite uh porn category

3 RSP 5 me

[eHalcyon]

I'm thinking of upgrading from Galaxy S5 to Galaxy S7.  I've been having some screen issues for a while now, with the screen flickering green or even staying completely black when I wake it, but this only happened at the lowest brightness setting (and it seemed to occur more often when it was particularly cold out).  I'm still not sure whether this is software or hardware related; I have dropped my phone a few times.

It's slowly been getting worse though, with the "minimum" brightness getting higher and higher.  At this point, it does the green flicker when I'm just turning the phone on or off (because the screen dims first, I think).  I've read reports of others having similar issues too.  I think Pokemon Go may have exacerbated the problem because it's caused me to leave the screen on for much longer than usual, even when I'm not actively using the phone.

Today I had a fully black screen twice, and I noticed that the screen was still touch-responsive (I was able to unlock the screen and do some things just from muscle memory) during that time.  I don't know if that was the case before, but I never noticed it then.  It was very disconcerting.

So yeah... thinking of upgrading.  I've been mulling over this for like 2 hours now instead of doing something productive.  Well, I guess buying a phone is productive in its own way.  Feel free to offer whatever thoughts or advice you may have.

[Witherweaver]

I'm thinking of upgrading from Galaxy S5 to Galaxy S7.  I've been having some screen issues for a while now, with the screen flickering green or even staying completely black when I wake it, but this only happened at the lowest brightness setting (and it seemed to occur more often when it was particularly cold out).  I'm still not sure whether this is software or hardware related; I have dropped my phone a few times.

It's slowly been getting worse though, with the "minimum" brightness getting higher and higher.  At this point, it does the green flicker when I'm just turning the phone on or off (because the screen dims first, I think).  I've read reports of others having similar issues too.  I think Pokemon Go may have exacerbated the problem because it's caused me to leave the screen on for much longer than usual, even when I'm not actively using the phone.

Today I had a fully black screen twice, and I noticed that the screen was still touch-responsive (I was able to unlock the screen and do some things just from muscle memory) during that time.  I don't know if that was the case before, but I never noticed it then.  It was very disconcerting.

So yeah... thinking of upgrading.  I've been mulling over this for like 2 hours now instead of doing something productive.  Well, I guess buying a phone is productive in its own way.  Feel free to offer whatever thoughts or advice you may have.

I feel like once you get to this point about upgrading/getting a new anything, you're basically going to do it.

[eHalcyon]

I'm thinking of upgrading from Galaxy S5 to Galaxy S7.  I've been having some screen issues for a while now, with the screen flickering green or even staying completely black when I wake it, but this only happened at the lowest brightness setting (and it seemed to occur more often when it was particularly cold out).  I'm still not sure whether this is software or hardware related; I have dropped my phone a few times.

It's slowly been getting worse though, with the "minimum" brightness getting higher and higher.  At this point, it does the green flicker when I'm just turning the phone on or off (because the screen dims first, I think).  I've read reports of others having similar issues too.  I think Pokemon Go may have exacerbated the problem because it's caused me to leave the screen on for much longer than usual, even when I'm not actively using the phone.

Today I had a fully black screen twice, and I noticed that the screen was still touch-responsive (I was able to unlock the screen and do some things just from muscle memory) during that time.  I don't know if that was the case before, but I never noticed it then.  It was very disconcerting.

So yeah... thinking of upgrading.  I've been mulling over this for like 2 hours now instead of doing something productive.  Well, I guess buying a phone is productive in its own way.  Feel free to offer whatever thoughts or advice you may have.

I feel like once you get to this point about upgrading/getting a new anything, you're basically going to do it.

True.  I've pulled back before though!  And advice can be "which new thing" instead of "don't get the new thing".  For example, I'm probably going to go with the S7 rather than the S7 edge, but opinions on that would be cool.  I don't really understand the whole edge gimmick.

[Witherweaver]

I'm thinking of upgrading from Galaxy S5 to Galaxy S7.  I've been having some screen issues for a while now, with the screen flickering green or even staying completely black when I wake it, but this only happened at the lowest brightness setting (and it seemed to occur more often when it was particularly cold out).  I'm still not sure whether this is software or hardware related; I have dropped my phone a few times.

It's slowly been getting worse though, with the "minimum" brightness getting higher and higher.  At this point, it does the green flicker when I'm just turning the phone on or off (because the screen dims first, I think).  I've read reports of others having similar issues too.  I think Pokemon Go may have exacerbated the problem because it's caused me to leave the screen on for much longer than usual, even when I'm not actively using the phone.

Today I had a fully black screen twice, and I noticed that the screen was still touch-responsive (I was able to unlock the screen and do some things just from muscle memory) during that time.  I don't know if that was the case before, but I never noticed it then.  It was very disconcerting.

So yeah... thinking of upgrading.  I've been mulling over this for like 2 hours now instead of doing something productive.  Well, I guess buying a phone is productive in its own way.  Feel free to offer whatever thoughts or advice you may have.

I feel like once you get to this point about upgrading/getting a new anything, you're basically going to do it.

True.  I've pulled back before though!  And advice can be "which new thing" instead of "don't get the new thing".  For example, I'm probably going to go with the S7 rather than the S7 edge, but opinions on that would be cool.  I don't really understand the whole edge gimmick.

I like the notes a lot... large screen is helpful. 

[eHalcyon]

I like the notes a lot... large screen is helpful.

For me, I think I'm happy with the 5.1" screen size.

So I've been backing stuff up and even reading up on cases... but right now I think I'm going to give it another week, unless something drastic happens.

[Darth Vader]

I like the notes a lot... large screen is helpful.

Is there a thermal exhaust port? Those tend to be detriments to technological advancements.

[Witherweaver]

I like the notes a lot... large screen is helpful.

Is there a thermal exhaust port? Those tend to be detriments to technological advancements.

I use the web browser to go to this forum to blow off all of my steam. 

[Seprix]

[Kuildeous]

My AC pooped out during a time when it was 93 degrees at 9 PM. Not cool. Literally.

Here's hoping a technician can come out early enough today and is able to fix it.

It was difficult to get to sleep last night, but once I fell asleep, the fan kept me cool, so that was nice.

[Roadrunner7671]

Happy birthday to me!

[gkrieg13]

Happy birthday to me!

Happy birfday

[Haddock]

Happy birthday to me!

Happy birthday RR.   14, right?  Care for a cupcake?

[SpaceAnemone]

Happy birthday to me!

Happy Birthday, RR :-) Hope to get to play in a Mafia game with you soon!
(Are many other people here super-young?)

[Roadrunner7671]

Happy birthday to me!

Happy Birthday, RR :-) Hope to get to play in a Mafia game with you soon!
(Are many other people here super-young?)

There are two people around my age and one closer to 16. It's hard to tell though

[Awaclus]

(Are many other people here super-young?)

I'm 21.

[Archetype]

I'm 18.

I know of other younger people who have stated their ages on here a while back, but don't know if they want to be re-outed.

[sudgy]

I'm starting to not feel quite so young here anymore.  I'm 19.

[XerxesPraelor]

I'm starting to not feel quite so young here anymore.  I'm 19.

Me too.

[pingpongsam]

I just googled "dreams cause pollution" and got zero results. now that I typed "dreams cause pollution" into a public forum, will I get one? Let me see...

edit: I do not! scam!

https://www.google.com/search?q=%22dreams+cause+pollution%22&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

spiders take time, dude

[pingpongsam]

I'm 38

[sudgy]

In other news, this happened while I was learning how to use git:

Code: [Select]

-> git branch list
[nothing happens]

-> git branch --list
* master
  list

-> git branch rm list

-> git branch --list
* master
  list
  rm

[pacovf]

I assume you figured out already, but just in case, what you want to do is

$ git branch -d list

Surprised the third line didn't send any errors though.

Funny though.

[sudgy]

Totally random right after posting something else (but it's random stuff, right?), but I just made a variable in C++ with a type of "std::map<std::pair<std::vector<Type1>, Type2>, std::vector<std::pair<std::vector<Type3>, std::vector<Type1>>>>".  Has anybody else used a type as crazy as that?

[Roadrunner7671]

I'm 18.

I know of other younger people who have stated their ages on here a while back, but don't know if they want to be re-outed.

Because of your avatar I always assumed you were around 40.

[Kuildeous]

I'm 18.

I know of other younger people who have stated their ages on here a while back, but don't know if they want to be re-outed.

Because of your avatar I always assumed you were around 40.

See, that's why I don't like judging people on their avatars.

Speaking of which, mine sucks. It was a hack job done in Flash. I need to spend a little more time on it.

[gkrieg13]

I'm 18.

I know of other younger people who have stated their ages on here a while back, but don't know if they want to be re-outed.

Because of your avatar I always assumed you were around 40.

See, that's why I don't like judging people on their avatars.

Speaking of which, mine sucks. It was a hack job done in Flash. I need to spend a little more time on it.

It bothers me that your avatar goes from yellow to white except for the R, which is yellow like the As.  I just can't.

[mail-mi]

I'm 18.

I know of other younger people who have stated their ages on here a while back, but don't know if they want to be re-outed.

Because of your avatar I always assumed you were around 40.

I'm 18 too.

Also, hey roadrunner: Something witty.

[Kirian]

I'm 18.

I know of other younger people who have stated their ages on here a while back, but don't know if they want to be re-outed.

Because of your avatar I always assumed you were around 40.

See, that's why I don't like judging people on their avatars.

Speaking of which, mine sucks. It was a hack job done in Flash. I need to spend a little more time on it.

And what the hell is a tarava, anyway, some sort of tropical fruit?

[Tables]

My age is currently an antiprime number (antiprime numbers might only be a thing according to Brady Haran and called highly composite number by most other people).

[skip wooznum]

My age is currently an antiprime number (antiprime numbers might only be a thing according to Brady Haran and called highly composite number by most other people).

oh... Highly composite number. Now I know what you're talking about. My guess is you're hmmm 36?

[Seprix]

My age is currently an antiprime number (antiprime numbers might only be a thing according to Brady Haran and called highly composite number by most other people).

oh... Highly composite number. Now I know what you're talking about. My guess is you're hmmm 36?

I always knew Tables was one year old.

[Ichimaru Gin]

I'm starting to not feel quite so young here anymore.  I'm 19.

I know how you feel. 20 and I can't believe I'm not a teenager anymore 

[Tables]

I'm a very intelligent 1 year old. When I joined the forum I was a very intelligent -4 year old.

But yeah, not 36 I'm afraid. I'd say that was the big contender for guessing my actual age. I'm actually 24.

[jsh357]

I'm 30. It's tough sometimes.

[Archetype]

I'm 18.

I know of other younger people who have stated their ages on here a while back, but don't know if they want to be re-outed.

Because of your avatar I always assumed you were around 40.

I vaguely remember Eevee or someone else thinking the same thing. I just like Count's art.

[Awaclus]

Speaking of which, mine sucks.

That's true, but it's a little bit better on Platinum boards.

[Kuildeous]

It bothers me that your avatar goes from yellow to white except for the R, which is yellow like the As.  I just can't.

Interesting. I've stared at it for a few iterations, and I don't see the white. I wonder if it's a browser thing.

In any case, there was not to be any white in it when I crafted it, so it's not at all intentional.

Of course, now I'm tempted to create one that cycles through six iterations and then on the seventh one have some really odd and quick glitch just so people can wonder if they saw that correctly.

[RAwaclus]

It bothers me that your avatar goes from yellow to white except for the R, which is yellow like the As.  I just can't.

Interesting. I've stared at it for a few iterations, and I don't see the white. I wonder if it's a browser thing.

In any case, there was not to be any white in it when I crafted it, so it's not at all intentional.

Of course, now I'm tempted to create one that cycles through six iterations and then on the seventh one have some really odd and quick glitch just so people can wonder if they saw that correctly.

do it.

[Awaclus]

It bothers me that your avatar goes from yellow to white except for the R, which is yellow like the As.  I just can't.

Interesting. I've stared at it for a few iterations, and I don't see the white. I wonder if it's a browser thing.

In any case, there was not to be any white in it when I crafted it, so it's not at all intentional.

Of course, now I'm tempted to create one that cycles through six iterations and then on the seventh one have some really odd and quick glitch just so people can wonder if they saw that correctly.

I think he means blue, not white. All the consonants only have the outlines in the orange color and the middle is the same kind of blue as the background, except for R which is fully orange just like the As.

[gkrieg13]

It bothers me that your avatar goes from yellow to white except for the R, which is yellow like the As.  I just can't.

Interesting. I've stared at it for a few iterations, and I don't see the white. I wonder if it's a browser thing.

In any case, there was not to be any white in it when I crafted it, so it's not at all intentional.

Of course, now I'm tempted to create one that cycles through six iterations and then on the seventh one have some really odd and quick glitch just so people can wonder if they saw that correctly.

I think he means blue, not white. All the consonants only have the outlines in the orange color and the middle is the same kind of blue as the background, except for R which is fully orange just like the As.

Yes that is what I meant.  For some reason I just assumed because it wasn't colored that it was white.  Interesting subconscious thought.

[gkrieg13]

My wife and I are officially home owners!

[Kuildeous]

It bothers me that your avatar goes from yellow to white except for the R, which is yellow like the As.  I just can't.

Interesting. I've stared at it for a few iterations, and I don't see the white. I wonder if it's a browser thing.

In any case, there was not to be any white in it when I crafted it, so it's not at all intentional.

Of course, now I'm tempted to create one that cycles through six iterations and then on the seventh one have some really odd and quick glitch just so people can wonder if they saw that correctly.

I think he means blue, not white. All the consonants only have the outlines in the orange color and the middle is the same kind of blue as the background, except for R which is fully orange just like the As.

Yes that is what I meant.  For some reason I just assumed because it wasn't colored that it was white.  Interesting subconscious thought.

That makes sense. I suppose it kind of is like white space. It's negative, for certain.

But yeah, I'm not happy with those tweens. I need to come up with something better. It doesn't morph nicely.

[pingpongsam]

My wife and I are officially home owners!

You mean, mortgage payers? If so, welcome to the club.
If you mean to say you no longer owe debt on your home, then congratulations!

[gkrieg13]

My wife and I are officially home owners!

You mean, mortgage payers? If so, welcome to the club.
If you mean to say you no longer owe debt on your home, then congratulations!

Unfortunately we are the former.

[Awaclus]

I misclicked and accidentally logged out of f.ds.

[theory]

My wife and I are officially home owners!

Congrats   We're hoping to close on a home next month - offer accepted, mortgage docs signed.

[Seprix]

I got No Man's Sky. It's very fun so far, with what little I know. The only issue is it keeps crashing on my PS4.

[schadd]

I got No Man's Sky. It's very fun so far, with what little I know. The only issue is it keeps crashing on my PS4.

dammit that's the one it's supposed to not crash on

[Seprix]

I got No Man's Sky. It's very fun so far, with what little I know. The only issue is it keeps crashing on my PS4.

dammit that's the one it's supposed to not crash on

I reset my PS4, no problems afterwards.

[Kirian]

My age is currently an antiprime number (antiprime numbers might only be a thing according to Brady Haran and called highly composite number by most other people).

Hey, if Brady Haran says it, it's practically math.

[Kuildeous]

I remember when I was the perfect age. I remember when I was in my Mersenne prime.

But those won't happen to me ever again unless they find a cure for natural mortality.

I need to find other fun numbers. The gap between squares is ever widening. I have to wait 5 more years for that.

[Tables]

I remember when I was the perfect age. I remember when I was in my Mersenne prime.

But those won't happen to me ever again unless they find a cure for natural mortality.

I need to find other fun numbers. The gap between squares is ever widening. I have to wait 5 more years for that.

44?

[Kuildeous]

I remember when I was the perfect age. I remember when I was in my Mersenne prime.

But those won't happen to me ever again unless they find a cure for natural mortality.

I need to find other fun numbers. The gap between squares is ever widening. I have to wait 5 more years for that.

44?

Correct. I threw a little solve-for-x problem in there, though it's not the only solution. But you did choose the statistically most likely solution.

[Haddock]

I remember when I was the perfect age. I remember when I was in my Mersenne prime.

But those won't happen to me ever again unless they find a cure for natural mortality.

I need to find other fun numbers. The gap between squares is ever widening. I have to wait 5 more years for that.

44?

Correct. I threw a little solve-for-x problem in there, though it's not the only solution. But you did choose the statistically most likely solution.

I tossed up about 31, but "remember when" does seem to imply that it's not current.

[Witherweaver]

I'm confused about the statement of the problem.  Is x a number of the form n^2-5 that is greater than the largest perfect numbers and a Mersenne primes that are in the interval, say, (0, 110) (and is itself also in (0,100))?  In that case you still have 59, 76, 95.

[Tables]

I'm confused about the statement of the problem.  Is x a number of the form n^2-5 that is greater than the largest perfect numbers and a Mersenne primes that are in the interval, say, (0, 110) (and is itself also in (0,100))?  In that case you still have 59, 76, 95.

Yeah, pretty much. Like Kuildeous says, there's several possibilities, but of them there, 44 is the most likely considering the general demographic of F.DS.

[Witherweaver]

I'm confused about the statement of the problem.  Is x a number of the form n^2-5 that is greater than the largest perfect numbers and a Mersenne primes that are in the interval, say, (0, 110) (and is itself also in (0,100))?  In that case you still have 59, 76, 95.

Yeah, pretty much. Like Kuildeous says, there's several possibilities, but of them there, 44 is the most likely considering the general demographic of F.DS.

I'm going to go ahead and keep thinking that he's 95.

[Kuildeous]

I'm confused about the statement of the problem.  Is x a number of the form n^2-5 that is greater than the largest perfect numbers and a Mersenne primes that are in the interval, say, (0, 110) (and is itself also in (0,100))?  In that case you still have 59, 76, 95.

Yeah, pretty much. Like Kuildeous says, there's several possibilities, but of them there, 44 is the most likely considering the general demographic of F.DS.

Yeah, I could have thrown in something to cap the choices. I dunno, something like I always wanted a VCR when I was in high school? That also eliminates many of the younger choices, but you never know. Someone under 20 could want something so retro as a VCR.

I really need to get rid of my VCR tapes, since I don't even have a VCR to play them anymore. They're just taking up sentimental space on my shelves. I also just hate throwing things away, especially when I spent money on them.

[Kuildeous]

I remember that SwitchedFromStarcraft said he was in his 60s, so 59 is not a far-out solution.

[SpaceAnemone]

I really need to get rid of my VCR tapes, since I don't even have a VCR to play them anymore. They're just taking up sentimental space on my shelves. I also just hate throwing things away, especially when I spent money on them.

I feel this! I only got rid of my VCR and tapes a few years ago because my housemate talked me into putting them on Freecycle. I still have a dual cassette player upstairs...

[pingpongsam]

I'm confused about the statement of the problem.  Is x a number of the form n^2-5 that is greater than the largest perfect numbers and a Mersenne primes that are in the interval, say, (0, 110) (and is itself also in (0,100))?  In that case you still have 59, 76, 95.

Yeah, pretty much. Like Kuildeous says, there's several possibilities, but of them there, 44 is the most likely considering the general demographic of F.DS.

Yeah, I could have thrown in something to cap the choices. I dunno, something like I always wanted a VCR when I was in high school? That also eliminates many of the younger choices, but you never know. Someone under 20 could want something so retro as a VCR.

I really need to get rid of my VCR tapes, since I don't even have a VCR to play them anymore. They're just taking up sentimental space on my shelves. I also just hate throwing things away, especially when I spent money on them.

I put mine up on Craigslist for free. They got snatched very quickly. The guy said he still had VCRs and collected VHS. Maybe he knew a place to sell them but I went with his story because it made me feel better knowing someone was still going to get use out of them.

[Kuildeous]

Argh. Friend of mine shares his Facebook account with his wife. It's creepy enough, but it is also confusing when both of them use it to communicate.

Husband posted about how the day needs a good drink.
Then wife commented with LMAO and how the post is interesting. And she misses him.
Then he comments on that he'll be home soon.

But these are all posted from the same account. I only know the husband started it because he signed his name. The others I had to extrapolate.

Which makes me wonder how he even saw her comment since Facebook alerts you to when someone else comments on your post—not your own. And is she ever going to see his comment to her comment?

I just don't get shared accounts, especially if both people will be using it. It'd be different if maybe he uses it all the time but just tacks her name on it because she can't be arsed to have her own account.

[Witherweaver]

Argh. Friend of mine shares his Facebook account with his wife. It's creepy enough, but it is also confusing when both of them use it to communicate.

Husband posted about how the day needs a good drink.
Then wife commented with LMAO and how the post is interesting. And she misses him.
Then he comments on that he'll be home soon.

But these are all posted from the same account. I only know the husband started it because he signed his name. The others I had to extrapolate.

Which makes me wonder how he even saw her comment since Facebook alerts you to when someone else comments on your post—not your own. And is she ever going to see his comment to her comment?

I just don't get shared accounts, especially if both people will be using it. It'd be different if maybe he uses it all the time but just tacks her name on it because she can't be arsed to have her own account.

Why don't you invite yourself out for a drink so you can talk about it?

[silverspawn]

signature
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[Kuildeous]

Argh. Friend of mine shares his Facebook account with his wife. It's creepy enough, but it is also confusing when both of them use it to communicate.

Husband posted about how the day needs a good drink.
Then wife commented with LMAO and how the post is interesting. And she misses him.
Then he comments on that he'll be home soon.

But these are all posted from the same account. I only know the husband started it because he signed his name. The others I had to extrapolate.

Which makes me wonder how he even saw her comment since Facebook alerts you to when someone else comments on your post—not your own. And is she ever going to see his comment to her comment?

I just don't get shared accounts, especially if both people will be using it. It'd be different if maybe he uses it all the time but just tacks her name on it because she can't be arsed to have her own account.

Why don't you invite yourself out for a drink so you can talk about it?

I could probably score, too.

[Tables]

So, I had an idea for a board game not too long ago, and over the last two days I've fleshed it out to the point it's... almost playable? It would work nicely by forum as well. You can probably guess where I'm going here. It's a resource management/bidding game, should be a relatively short playtime. In short, the game takes place over 3 stages with 3 turns in each. Each turn everyone secretly bids simultaneously, then in order from highest to lowest bid buys a card, which might give more resource cubes, more income or other special effects. Stages 1+2 are mostly about setup, with stage 2 having stronger cards, while Stage 3 is mostly about converting those cards and cubes into points. Also, it's a low luck game (I'm not entirely sure yet whether to make it no luck besides setup... basically it's just a case of how many of the cards are revealed from the start of the game. I can have everything visible and make it no luck, only reveal cards at the start of the turn and make it quite reaction based, or something in between).

I'd say there's 98% chance it sucks or just isn't really fun to play, but just in case it's in the 2%... who wants to be the first PBF testers? I think it should work best with about 4 players although I'm planning for 3-6 players to work. If there's interest I'll maybe type the rules up into a workable format and get something going.

[gkrieg13]

So, I had an idea for a board game not too long ago, and over the last two days I've fleshed it out to the point it's... almost playable? It would work nicely by forum as well. You can probably guess where I'm going here. It's a resource management/bidding game, should be a relatively short playtime. In short, the game takes place over 3 stages with 3 turns in each. Each turn everyone secretly bids simultaneously, then in order from highest to lowest bid buys a card, which might give more resource cubes, more income or other special effects. Stages 1+2 are mostly about setup, with stage 2 having stronger cards, while Stage 3 is mostly about converting those cards and cubes into points. Also, it's a low luck game (I'm not entirely sure yet whether to make it no luck besides setup... basically it's just a case of how many of the cards are revealed from the start of the game. I can have everything visible and make it no luck, only reveal cards at the start of the turn and make it quite reaction based, or something in between).

I'd say there's 98% chance it sucks or just isn't really fun to play, but just in case it's in the 2%... who wants to be the first PBF testers? I think it should work best with about 4 players although I'm planning for 3-6 players to work. If there's interest I'll maybe type the rules up into a workable format and get something going.

I would probably be willing

[Kuildeous]

So, I had an idea for a board game not too long ago, and over the last two days I've fleshed it out to the point it's... almost playable? It would work nicely by forum as well. You can probably guess where I'm going here. It's a resource management/bidding game, should be a relatively short playtime. In short, the game takes place over 3 stages with 3 turns in each. Each turn everyone secretly bids simultaneously, then in order from highest to lowest bid buys a card, which might give more resource cubes, more income or other special effects. Stages 1+2 are mostly about setup, with stage 2 having stronger cards, while Stage 3 is mostly about converting those cards and cubes into points. Also, it's a low luck game (I'm not entirely sure yet whether to make it no luck besides setup... basically it's just a case of how many of the cards are revealed from the start of the game. I can have everything visible and make it no luck, only reveal cards at the start of the turn and make it quite reaction based, or something in between).

I'd say there's 98% chance it sucks or just isn't really fun to play, but just in case it's in the 2%... who wants to be the first PBF testers? I think it should work best with about 4 players although I'm planning for 3-6 players to work. If there's interest I'll maybe type the rules up into a workable format and get something going.

I also could be talked into it. I have a hole in my life that only a PBF game can fulfill.

[mail-mi]

So, I had an idea for a board game not too long ago, and over the last two days I've fleshed it out to the point it's... almost playable? It would work nicely by forum as well. You can probably guess where I'm going here. It's a resource management/bidding game, should be a relatively short playtime. In short, the game takes place over 3 stages with 3 turns in each. Each turn everyone secretly bids simultaneously, then in order from highest to lowest bid buys a card, which might give more resource cubes, more income or other special effects. Stages 1+2 are mostly about setup, with stage 2 having stronger cards, while Stage 3 is mostly about converting those cards and cubes into points. Also, it's a low luck game (I'm not entirely sure yet whether to make it no luck besides setup... basically it's just a case of how many of the cards are revealed from the start of the game. I can have everything visible and make it no luck, only reveal cards at the start of the turn and make it quite reaction based, or something in between).

I'd say there's 98% chance it sucks or just isn't really fun to play, but just in case it's in the 2%... who wants to be the first PBF testers? I think it should work best with about 4 players although I'm planning for 3-6 players to work. If there's interest I'll maybe type the rules up into a workable format and get something going.

I also could be talked into it. I have a hole in my life that only a PBF game can fulfill.

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16061

[eHalcyon]

Also, it's a low luck game (I'm not entirely sure yet whether to make it no luck besides setup... basically it's just a case of how many of the cards are revealed from the start of the game. I can have everything visible and make it no luck, only reveal cards at the start of the turn and make it quite reaction based, or something in between).

Somewhat controversial, but it should be noted that simultaneous decisions are arguably elements of luck.  It's like Rock-Paper-Scissors.

Your idea sounds a lot like 7 Wonders, except with drafting from a pool instead of from personal hands, and bidding for draft order -- especially the part about the 3 stages.  Only 9 turns total sounds rather short, but I guess it'll depend on the feel you're aiming for.

[Tables]

Also, it's a low luck game (I'm not entirely sure yet whether to make it no luck besides setup... basically it's just a case of how many of the cards are revealed from the start of the game. I can have everything visible and make it no luck, only reveal cards at the start of the turn and make it quite reaction based, or something in between).

Somewhat controversial, but it should be noted that simultaneous decisions are arguably elements of luck.  It's like Rock-Paper-Scissors.

Your idea sounds a lot like 7 Wonders, except with drafting from a pool instead of from personal hands, and bidding for draft order -- especially the part about the 3 stages.  Only 9 turns total sounds rather short, but I guess it'll depend on the feel you're aiming for.

No, I agree. This was actually something I've been umming and aahing over, whether after each bid all other players in the round should re-bid, or just go with what ends up being the order, even if it's no longer what you want. The former has the advantage of giving players less of a "I got screwed by his bid" feel, while the latter has the advantage of being much quicker, and I'm aiming for more short game.

Regarding 7 Wonders, yeah the comparison is definitely there. 7 Wonders and TtA are two games that both have some loose elements in common.

[Kuildeous]

I also could be talked into it. I have a hole in my life that only a PBF game can fulfill.

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16061

My hole's not that big. I'm forbidden from playing Mafia PBF ever again.

[pingpongsam]

I also could be talked into it. I have a hole in my life that only a PBF game can fulfill.

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16061

My hole's not that big. I'm forbidden from playing Mafia PBF ever again.

Really? I find Mafia to be the perfect game for letting me commit as much or little of my time and attention as I want on a given day. Also, no one is actually forbidden unless you mean you're whooped by your SO.

[Haddock]

I also could be talked into it. I have a hole in my life that only a PBF game can fulfill.

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16061

My hole's not that big. I'm forbidden from playing Mafia PBF ever again.

Really? I find Mafia to be the perfect game for letting me commit as much or little of my time and attention as I want on a given day. Also, no one is actually forbidden unless you mean you're whooped by your SO.

Edge-case: reinoe.

[Kuildeous]

My hole's not that big. I'm forbidden from playing Mafia PBF ever again.

Really? I find Mafia to be the perfect game for letting me commit as much or little of my time and attention as I want on a given day. Also, no one is actually forbidden unless you mean you're whooped by your SO.

I've forbidden myself. I take such games far too seriously. I can't let myself get into that again. I'd rather have nice safe board games translated to forum posts. Something simple—like Through the Ages.

[Seprix]

Continuing my No Man's Sky trek. It's very fun. It's very easy so far, and a lot of the planets are practically the same (so far), which was my worry. There's a lot of stuff to do though. You can get better ships, rare items to build and travel even further (the 'storyline' is that you have to make it to the center of the Universe to meet what is speculated to be the God, Atlas). There are unique types of aliens, codes to crack, languages to learn, weird alien artifacts to uncover, trading with other aliens through an economy, and more. What is really lacking in this game is a multiplayer, but I've heard that will be coming one day.

But as to even the fears of the samey easyish planets, I hear that there are about 6 difficulty levels as you approach the center, and that it gets much weirder, harder, and with more interesting things as well. It'll be interesting.

My one gripe is that I absolutely suck with space combat. I cannot kill anything at all. Maybe my ship is just too weak. Oh yeah, I also can't scan birds to add to my collection. I have no idea how to get them. I've tried shooting them down, zooming in close, everything.

[Witherweaver]

I want to try this game.  But, also, it's like $60 and I don't have time to sit in front of the TV to play games . (Well, I do take time to sit in front of the TV, but that's currently for watching series that I follow or movies, of which I have quite a bit to catch up on.  I'd have to give up some of that time.  I also put Witcher III on the back shelf some time ago.  I'd like to finish that, but can't find the time.)

[Seprix]

I want to try this game.  But, also, it's like $60 and I don't have time to sit in front of the TV to play games . (Well, I do take time to sit in front of the TV, but that's currently for watching series that I follow or movies, of which I have quite a bit to catch up on.  I'd have to give up some of that time.  I also put Witcher III on the back shelf some time ago.  I'd like to finish that, but can't find the time.)

It's on PC too. You could wait for a Steam Sale or something. I'm sure there will be one at like Christmas.

[Witherweaver]

I want to try this game.  But, also, it's like $60 and I don't have time to sit in front of the TV to play games . (Well, I do take time to sit in front of the TV, but that's currently for watching series that I follow or movies, of which I have quite a bit to catch up on.  I'd have to give up some of that time.  I also put Witcher III on the back shelf some time ago.  I'd like to finish that, but can't find the time.)

It's on PC too. You could wait for a Steam Sale or something. I'm sure there will be one at like Christmas.

I don't play any games on PC besides Dominion.  Actually, I currently only have a work laptop, as I gave my regular home laptop away.   I'm not too thrilled about PC gaming, because I don't really value spending the money on the right hardware.  Also, I have a PS4, so there's that.

[pingpongsam]

There's too much space between the V and the second A. I was expecting it between the R and the first A and was happy it wasn't there but I did keep noticing a gap and there it is. You should fix that.

[pingpongsam]

Now that I really look it looks like another gap between the T and the third A.

[pingpongsam]

Yep, clearly 3 groups of 2. Would be way better with equal spacing throughout.

[Seprix]

I want to try this game.  But, also, it's like $60 and I don't have time to sit in front of the TV to play games . (Well, I do take time to sit in front of the TV, but that's currently for watching series that I follow or movies, of which I have quite a bit to catch up on.  I'd have to give up some of that time.  I also put Witcher III on the back shelf some time ago.  I'd like to finish that, but can't find the time.)

It's on PC too. You could wait for a Steam Sale or something. I'm sure there will be one at like Christmas.

I don't play any games on PC besides Dominion.  Actually, I currently only have a work laptop, as I gave my regular home laptop away.   I'm not too thrilled about PC gaming, because I don't really value spending the money on the right hardware.  Also, I have a PS4, so there's that.

[Kuildeous]

Yep, clearly 3 groups of 2. Would be way better with equal spacing throughout.

Interestingly enough, the letter elements are spaced out evenly. The font may not be friendly toward it, because while there may be the same 60 pixels between T and A as there is between R and A, they clearly look different. It may be an illusion caused by the skinniness of the base of T and V while everything else has a wide base. Diagonal motion is no one's friend here.

[Tables]

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16067

I've decided to change how the bidding works to something else I've been mulling over (which I think is similar to another game's bidding system I played, something involving dinosaurs, but I can't quite put my finger on what it was). But yeah, go, sign up, let's playtest this thing.

[Kuildeous]

So in other words, not equal spacing but better kerning would be appropriate.

I'm not fond of seeing more than one letter in frame anyway, so if I make a change, it'll probably address that.

[scott_pilgrim]

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16067

I've decided to change how the bidding works to something else I've been mulling over (which I think is similar to another game's bidding system I played, something involving dinosaurs, but I can't quite put my finger on what it was). But yeah, go, sign up, let's playtest this thing.

Evo?  Or maybe Stockpile, but I don't think there are quite as many dinosaurs in that game.  This is one of my favorite bidding mechanics ever and I think I try to use it way too much.

Also, it's a low luck game (I'm not entirely sure yet whether to make it no luck besides setup... basically it's just a case of how many of the cards are revealed from the start of the game. I can have everything visible and make it no luck, only reveal cards at the start of the turn and make it quite reaction based, or something in between).

Somewhat controversial, but it should be noted that simultaneous decisions are arguably elements of luck.  It's like Rock-Paper-Scissors.

Your idea sounds a lot like 7 Wonders, except with drafting from a pool instead of from personal hands, and bidding for draft order -- especially the part about the 3 stages.  Only 9 turns total sounds rather short, but I guess it'll depend on the feel you're aiming for.

No, I agree. This was actually something I've been umming and aahing over, whether after each bid all other players in the round should re-bid, or just go with what ends up being the order, even if it's no longer what you want. The former has the advantage of giving players less of a "I got screwed by his bid" feel, while the latter has the advantage of being much quicker, and I'm aiming for more short game.

Regarding 7 Wonders, yeah the comparison is definitely there. 7 Wonders and TtA are two games that both have some loose elements in common.

I actually really like simultaneous decision mechanics, specifically because it's a way of adding luck to a game without making it feel like luck.  It takes away the perfect information (which can be good or bad, depending on what kind of game you're going for), but you still feel responsible for all your decisions.

[Seprix]

What about Sushi Go? I love that game, and it's got simultaneous decision making!

[Tables]

So, playing Splatoon. I see a Sniper in an exposed position. I'm not using the best weapon to approach, but he's using a scoped charger and he's looking about 90 degrees away from my position, so either a) He's not charged yet, and won't have time to kill me before I'm in range to kill me, or b) He's charged and won't be able to see me due to the scope's tunnel vision. So sure, seems like a good time to attack. As I approach, he swings around 90 degrees, immediately shoots and turns back to where he was looking before. I was dumbfounded. Firstly by the fact he managed to see me approach, which shouldn't have been possible if he was charged enough to kill, second by the fact he made such a big swing around and still got the shot perfectly lined up with basically no aiming period. I have no idea how he managed it.

[Seprix]

So, playing Splatoon. I see a Sniper in an exposed position. I'm not using the best weapon to approach, but he's using a scoped charger and he's looking about 90 degrees away from my position, so either a) He's not charged yet, and won't have time to kill me before I'm in range to kill me, or b) He's charged and won't be able to see me due to the scope's tunnel vision. So sure, seems like a good time to attack. As I approach, he swings around 90 degrees, immediately shoots and turns back to where he was looking before. I was dumbfounded. Firstly by the fact he managed to see me approach, which shouldn't have been possible if he was charged enough to kill, second by the fact he made such a big swing around and still got the shot perfectly lined up with basically no aiming period. I have no idea how he managed it.

360 Squid scope

[sudgy]

I just switched to linux.

I am very happy with my decision.

[pingpongsam]

I just switched to linux.

I am very happy with my decision.

I approve. Actually, knowing your coding background I'm shocked you weren't already there. Some things Linux isn't really cut out for or at least supported in but coding is the very least of those things.

[Chris is me]

So, playing Splatoon. I see a Sniper in an exposed position. I'm not using the best weapon to approach, but he's using a scoped charger and he's looking about 90 degrees away from my position, so either a) He's not charged yet, and won't have time to kill me before I'm in range to kill me, or b) He's charged and won't be able to see me due to the scope's tunnel vision. So sure, seems like a good time to attack. As I approach, he swings around 90 degrees, immediately shoots and turns back to where he was looking before. I was dumbfounded. Firstly by the fact he managed to see me approach, which shouldn't have been possible if he was charged enough to kill, second by the fact he made such a big swing around and still got the shot perfectly lined up with basically no aiming period. I have no idea how he managed it.

Tilt controls!

No, really, tilt controls if you have the body control and the patience of a saint, combined with the joystick, let you take these precision shots sometimes. Only some people can manage this though.

[LastFootnote]

So, playing Splatoon. I see a Sniper in an exposed position. I'm not using the best weapon to approach, but he's using a scoped charger and he's looking about 90 degrees away from my position, so either a) He's not charged yet, and won't have time to kill me before I'm in range to kill me, or b) He's charged and won't be able to see me due to the scope's tunnel vision. So sure, seems like a good time to attack. As I approach, he swings around 90 degrees, immediately shoots and turns back to where he was looking before. I was dumbfounded. Firstly by the fact he managed to see me approach, which shouldn't have been possible if he was charged enough to kill, second by the fact he made such a big swing around and still got the shot perfectly lined up with basically no aiming period. I have no idea how he managed it.

Did the other team have an echolocator?

[Tables]

So, playing Splatoon. I see a Sniper in an exposed position. I'm not using the best weapon to approach, but he's using a scoped charger and he's looking about 90 degrees away from my position, so either a) He's not charged yet, and won't have time to kill me before I'm in range to kill me, or b) He's charged and won't be able to see me due to the scope's tunnel vision. So sure, seems like a good time to attack. As I approach, he swings around 90 degrees, immediately shoots and turns back to where he was looking before. I was dumbfounded. Firstly by the fact he managed to see me approach, which shouldn't have been possible if he was charged enough to kill, second by the fact he made such a big swing around and still got the shot perfectly lined up with basically no aiming period. I have no idea how he managed it.

Did the other team have an echolocator?

Not active, for sure. Being tagged would have definitely made me not approach.

[Kuildeous]

True willpower is suppressing the urge to shout, “Where’s the best place to fuck,” when listening to Science Fiction Double Feature at work. Oh, Pandora, you’re going to get me in trouble someday.

I also had to resist the urge to whistle when Always Look on the Bright Side of Life came on, but that would have been less disastrous.

[Witherweaver]

True willpower is suppressing the urge to shout, “Where’s the best place to fuck,” when listening to Science Fiction Double Feature at work. Oh, Pandora, you’re going to get me in trouble someday.

I also had to resist the urge to whistle when Always Look on the Bright Side of Life came on, but that would have been less disastrous.

Is that something usually done during the theater showings?

[Kuildeous]

True willpower is suppressing the urge to shout, “Where’s the best place to fuck,” when listening to Science Fiction Double Feature at work. Oh, Pandora, you’re going to get me in trouble someday.

I also had to resist the urge to whistle when Always Look on the Bright Side of Life came on, but that would have been less disastrous.

Is that something usually done during the theater showings?

Yes, audience members typically shout it just before Richard O’Brien sings, “In the back row.” Then there’s more hijinks after that.

[Witherweaver]

True willpower is suppressing the urge to shout, “Where’s the best place to fuck,” when listening to Science Fiction Double Feature at work. Oh, Pandora, you’re going to get me in trouble someday.

I also had to resist the urge to whistle when Always Look on the Bright Side of Life came on, but that would have been less disastrous.

Is that something usually done during the theater showings?

Yes, audience members typically shout it just before Richard O’Brien sings, “In the back row.” Then there’s more hijinks after that.

Ah.  I'm a fan but I've never actually had the theater experience. 

[Kuildeous]

True willpower is suppressing the urge to shout, “Where’s the best place to fuck,” when listening to Science Fiction Double Feature at work. Oh, Pandora, you’re going to get me in trouble someday.

I also had to resist the urge to whistle when Always Look on the Bright Side of Life came on, but that would have been less disastrous.

Is that something usually done during the theater showings?

Yes, audience members typically shout it just before Richard O’Brien sings, “In the back row.” Then there’s more hijinks after that.

Ah.  I'm a fan but I've never actually had the theater experience. 

I suggest it, but the experience can certainly vary.

Ideally, the audience should be a well-oiled machine that speaks in unison or lets someone say his piece.

Sometimes you get audience members who want to be the center of all the attention, so they try to quickly yell something so they can be first and screw up the pacing.

[Roadrunner7671]

First forum post at 4 AM!

[Roadrunner7671]

Here's another one just to make sure. Good night.

[schadd]

man, i was content with the hues being blue and white but it does different ones!

[silverspawn]

See how great avatars are? o/

[Kuildeous]

Too fast for my taste. Might fix later.

[Kuildeous]

Although, the GIF limitation may be working against me. Three hundred fifty frames of tweens means that I’m exceeding 256 colors, so some are being dropped. That actually slows it down in some parts.

I wonder if SWFs can be uploaded as avatars.

[Witherweaver]

Although, the GIF limitation may be working against me. Three hundred fifty frames of tweens means that I’m exceeding 256 colors, so some are being dropped. That actually slows it down in some parts.

I wonder if SWFs can be uploaded as avatars.

Single white females? 

[Awaclus]

I wonder if SWFs can be uploaded as avatars.

It would be cool if webms could.

[ThetaSigma12]

Happy birthday to me!

Happy Birthday, RR :-) Hope to get to play in a Mafia game with you soon!
(Are many other people here super-young?)

There are two people around my age and one closer to 16. It's hard to tell though

I'm still 13!

[Awaclus]

Happy birthday to me!

Happy Birthday, RR :-) Hope to get to play in a Mafia game with you soon!
(Are many other people here super-young?)

There are two people around my age and one closer to 16. It's hard to tell though

I'm still 13!

Wow, you're pretty old. Have you considered contacting the Guinness World Records?

[Roadrunner7671]

What are satyrs, centaurs and mermaids classified as? Creatures who have the upper half of a human but the lower half of something else. Is there a word for all of those?

[Haddock]

What are satyrs, centaurs and mermaids classified as? Creatures who have the upper half of a human but the lower half of something else. Is there a word for all of those?

I guess "chimaera" serves fairly well but isn't quite that specific.

[pacovf]

All three of them stem from Greek mythology (I think?), so grouping them under the name of a different Greek monster (the original chimera, see Bellephoron) seems confusing in that context.

I don't know what the word would be though.

[schadd]

thanks for complimenting my enchantment, mr. secret-fire. i'll show it to you when you wake up

[Seprix]

The church I work at is the most comically inept place to ever work in. It's like a Dilbert comic strip come to life. I am the only rational person there, I swear. Getting anything done there that needs to be done is like the business equivalent of Vietnam. It's unwinnable. The leadership is a complete joke, and there's bureaucratic red tape wherever you go.

[Haddock]

What are satyrs, centaurs and mermaids classified as? Creatures who have the upper half of a human but the lower half of something else. Is there a word for all of those?

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100311083438AAhhAaM

Suggests "therianthrope" as a possiblity.

Wikipedia suggests "Centauroid creature" or "mythological hybrid".

[qmech]

The church I work at

I'm lacking some cultural context here.  What does that involve?  The churches I've come across don't have anything resembling staff, and certainly not enough to develop an attendant bureaucracy.

[Kuildeous]

Happy birthday to me!

Happy Birthday, RR :-) Hope to get to play in a Mafia game with you soon!
(Are many other people here super-young?)

There are two people around my age and one closer to 16. It's hard to tell though

I'm still 13!

Wow, you're pretty old. Have you considered contacting the Guinness World Records?

If there's ever a line where I get sick of factorial jokes, I don't want to cross it.

[Seprix]

The church I work at

I'm lacking some cultural context here.  What does that involve?  The churches I've come across don't have anything resembling staff, and certainly not enough to develop an attendant bureaucracy.

It's pretty relaxed where I work at, but there are business-like policies and budgets and things like that. There's also incompetent leadership that belittles everyone who makes a mistake or even brings up inconvenient truths like sound equipment breaking down, because that involves money. Nobody in the higher-ups has any idea about technology, and they expect the team I work for to just get it done without any money, which is going to only work for so long.

[pingpongsam]

The church I work at

I'm lacking some cultural context here.  What does that involve?  The churches I've come across don't have anything resembling staff, and certainly not enough to develop an attendant bureaucracy.

It's pretty relaxed where I work at, but there are business-like policies and budgets and things like that. There's also incompetent leadership that belittles everyone who makes a mistake or even brings up inconvenient truths like sound equipment breaking down, because that involves money. Nobody in the higher-ups has any idea about technology, and they expect the team I work for to just get it done without any money, which is going to only work for so long.

Don't worry, it's like that pretty much everywhere.

[pingpongsam]

Talked to the neighbor yesterday and somewhere in the conversation he was telling me about his cousin who has a grandson and the cousin with the grandson just had a son. It took me forever to figure out that the grandson just had a new uncle and not some other crazy cousin concoction.

[Kuildeous]

Common premise: When you are teleported, the old you is disintegrated and a new you is built complete with memories.

Story idea: The first stages of teleportation research where they haven't figured out how to retain the memories.

[Awaclus]

Common premise: When you are teleported, the old you is disintegrated and a new you is built complete with memories.

Story idea: The first stages of teleportation research where they haven't figured out how to retain the memories.

Reminds me of Steins;Gate, although it's about time travel, not just teleportation.

[Witherweaver]

Common premise: When you are teleported, the old you is disintegrated and a new you is built complete with memories.

Story idea: The first stages of teleportation research where they haven't figured out how to retain the memories.

Have you watched Dark Matter?

[silverspawn]

Common premise: When you are teleported, the old you is disintegrated and a new you is built complete with memories.

Story idea: The first stages of teleportation research where they haven't figured out how to retain the memories.

Reminds me of Steins;Gate, although it's about time travel, not just teleportation.

do you like that show?

[Kuildeous]

Common premise: When you are teleported, the old you is disintegrated and a new you is built complete with memories.

Story idea: The first stages of teleportation research where they haven't figured out how to retain the memories.

Have you watched Dark Matter?

I have not. It's been on my radar, but the fact that you bring this up as a direct response to my musing brings it a little closer on my radar.

[Awaclus]

Common premise: When you are teleported, the old you is disintegrated and a new you is built complete with memories.

Story idea: The first stages of teleportation research where they haven't figured out how to retain the memories.

Reminds me of Steins;Gate, although it's about time travel, not just teleportation.

do you like that show?

I like the show and love the VN.

[ConMan]

If you like that kind of thing, then I'd recommend trying the Zero Escape series of visual novel games. I'm currently playing the first one (9 Hours, 9 Doors, 9 Persons or some permutation of the same) after finally getting around to finishing the second one (Virtue's Last Reward) and will get the third one (Time Dilemma, I think) on the Nintendo e-Shop at some point to round out the story. From what I know of the plots, there's a lot of reference to the typical things like Schrodinger's Cat and the like, made relevant because a major plot point and mechanic of the games is that the protagonist of each game, and often some other characters, is occasionally able to remember things that happened in another timeline where you made different decisions, and indeed the big reveal at the end of Virtue's Last Reward is that everything was done with the aim of sending the protagonist's mind back in time to prevent a disaster. And from what I've been told of Time Dilemma, not only do most of the characters have the same or similar ability, but between bits of the story they're given anaesthetic and amnesiac drugs so that neither you nor they are entirely sure what things happen in what order, or even in the same timeline.

[silverspawn]

I just googled "dreams cause pollution" and got zero results. now that I typed "dreams cause pollution" into a public forum, will I get one? Let me see...

edit: I do not! scam!

Update! I do get it now. Apparently google needs some time.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Common premise: When you are teleported, the old you is disintegrated and a new you is built complete with memories.

Story idea: The first stages of teleportation research where they haven't figured out how to retain the memories.

Reminds me of Steins;Gate, although it's about time travel, not just teleportation.

do you like that show?

I like the show and love the VN.

The VN (which I sadly have yet to play) is coming to Steam next month!

[Seprix]

 

[Ichimaru Gin]

yes. may i help you?

[Roadrunner7671]

I had seven soft drinks today, from about noon to 10 PM. It's 3:30 AM and my 'sugar high' still isn't gone. When I crash I think I might pass out. Or I might accidentally pull a all nighter.

[LaLight]

I had seven soft drinks today, from about noon to 10 PM. It's 3:30 AM and my 'sugar high' still isn't gone. When I crash I think I might pass out. Or I might accidentally pull a all nighter.

It's middle of the week, man!

[Roadrunner7671]

I had seven soft drinks today, from about noon to 10 PM. It's 3:30 AM and my 'sugar high' still isn't gone. When I crash I think I might pass out. Or I might accidentally pull a all nighter.

It's middle of the week, man!

It's still summer for me!

[LaLight]

I had seven soft drinks today, from about noon to 10 PM. It's 3:30 AM and my 'sugar high' still isn't gone. When I crash I think I might pass out. Or I might accidentally pull a all nighter.

It's middle of the week, man!

It's still summer for me!

Oh well. I'm jealous. Gotta drink after work and make up some crazy ideas in Mafia hehe

[LaLight]

It's sad when I'm in the middle of the day and forum is sleeping though

[Roadrunner7671]

It's sad when I'm in the middle of the day and forum is sleeping though

Hi

[Roadrunner7671]

There are 10 people online right now. I happen to know at least five of them are pretty cool, but anyone who's on the Dominion Forum is probably cool. But you can find out who's online here: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16136.new#new

[LaLight]

There are 10 people online right now. I happen to know at least five of them are pretty cool, but anyone who's on the Dominion Forum is probably cool. But you can find out who's online here: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16136.new#new

I
Hate
You

suka blyat

[LaLight]

But I laughed very hard, you made my noon

[Seprix]

I feel really proud. I got to 26th in the MF leaderboard. I know it's an awful rating system, but I never thought I'd ever go that high in my life, and well, it feels like an achievement.

[Tables]

I feel really proud. I got to 26th in the MF leaderboard. I know it's an awful rating system, but I never thought I'd ever go that high in my life, and well, it feels like an achievement.

Oh yes? Tell me about it. I don't see why anyone would want to memorialise getting to the top or near the top of a weird/buggy/beta leaderboard though.

[Kuildeous]

Pulled out Factory Manager last night. I think it was only the second time we played it. It still smelled of new game after all these years.

I forgot how tight that game was. I enjoyed it, even though I lost.

[Seprix]

I feel really proud. I got to 26th in the MF leaderboard. I know it's an awful rating system, but I never thought I'd ever go that high in my life, and well, it feels like an achievement.

Oh yes? Tell me about it. I don't see why anyone would want to memorialise getting to the top or near the top of a weird/buggy/beta leaderboard though.

Never mind.

[Limetime]

I feel really proud. I got to 26th in the MF leaderboard. I know it's an awful rating system, but I never thought I'd ever go that high in my life, and well, it feels like an achievement.

I need to play you rated.

[Seprix]

I feel really proud. I got to 26th in the MF leaderboard. I know it's an awful rating system, but I never thought I'd ever go that high in my life, and well, it feels like an achievement.

I need to play you rated.

Noooooooo

[Roadrunner7671]

Is there a thread where it's really easy to just find every single Dominion card?

[sudgy]

Is there a thread where it's really easy to just find every single Dominion card?

http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/All_Cards

[blueblimp]

I had seven soft drinks today, from about noon to 10 PM. It's 3:30 AM and my 'sugar high' still isn't gone. When I crash I think I might pass out. Or I might accidentally pull a all nighter.

If the soft drinks were caffeinated, you're more likely being kept awake by the caffeine than by the sugar. (I don't know much reason that eating a lot of sugar would keep anyone awake.)

[Roadrunner7671]

I had seven soft drinks today, from about noon to 10 PM. It's 3:30 AM and my 'sugar high' still isn't gone. When I crash I think I might pass out. Or I might accidentally pull a all nighter.

If the soft drinks were caffeinated, you're more likely being kept awake by the caffeine than by the sugar. (I don't know much reason that eating a lot of sugar would keep anyone awake.)

Yeah it was probably caffeine. At the time that didn't occur to me, for obvious reasons

[mail-mi]

Is there a thread where it's really easy to just find every single Dominion card?

http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/All_Cards

Adventures and Empires are still missing though.

no they're not. I just looked through it.

[eHalcyon]

Is there a thread where it's really easy to just find every single Dominion card?

http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/All_Cards

Adventures and Empires are still missing though.

no they're not. I just looked through it.

Aw darn, you replied before I deleted my post.

I misread the link.  I thought it was this one:

http://dominionstrategy.com/all-cards/

[pacovf]

Just got a new laptop with a Canadian Multilingual Standard Keyboard, or whatever its official name is. Never been so confused about a keyboard before. I didn't know you could fit 5 signs on one key!

[Chris is me]

I feel really proud. I got to 26th in the MF leaderboard. I know it's an awful rating system, but I never thought I'd ever go that high in my life, and well, it feels like an achievement.

I remember this time last year, you were posting about how you plateaued and were never going to improve again. Great job not doing that!

In my case, my relative lack of Rated play, combined with a bunch of losses and disconnects in my League game yesterday, have brought my ranking down to like 3700. :/ I can't wait for the new client.

[LaLight]

F.ds makes me work. When I have a working day everyone sleeps. And then when it's night everyone posts smth. I don't sleep and my working capacity increased!

[silverspawn]

that doesn't sound plausible

[Burning Skull]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetris_effect

Apparently that's how it is called when you repeatedly ask your morning alarm to wait one more turn so you can buy another Province...

[Witherweaver]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetris_effect

Apparently that's how it is called when you repeatedly ask your morning alarm to wait one more turn so you can buy another Province...

Oh man I've done that with volleyball, when I used to play like 6+ hours in a row.  I'd be falling asleep and visualizing games in my head, and all of the sudden my arm or leg would shoot out because of something I'm imagining myself doing, and I'd jerk back to consciousness.  I  always felt very stupid afterwards. 

[silverspawn]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetris_effect

Apparently that's how it is called when you repeatedly ask your morning alarm to wait one more turn so you can buy another Province...

I know a similar thing ... when I was super into dominion, I used to think about throne room a lot when the alarm bell rang... somehow, I thought if I just used it to boost my engine efficiently enoguh I could ... well something ... and the alarm was somehow a part of that field ... I don't know. Doesn't quite seem to be the same thing as what the wikipedia entry talks about, thoguh.

[pacovf]

Civilization.

[pingpongsam]

suas part 107 aim ac atc nas notam acr pic vo

[Witherweaver]

I finished Infinite Jest, by the way.  I liked it quite a bit.  I recommend it to anyone that's, like, alive and reads stuff.  I think I'll go into more of his stuff (maybe short stories first).

Though, I found out a couple months ago that Howl's Moving Castle was actually a novel (series, really).  So I'm starting that now.

[Kuildeous]

So a Facebook friend (really, someone I went to elementary school with, so "friend" is an overstatement), in accordance to instructions, shared a post from "Chevy USA" in order to qualify for one of five free Chevy trucks.

I looked at Chevy USA and saw that it only had 745 Likes. I voiced my suspicions that an established company like that would have thousands upon thousands of followers (in fact, 16 million). I said that such a group was likely created for Like farming so it could be sold later. Her response was, "ya never know." That's when I just have to give up.

[Seprix]

So a Facebook friend (really, someone I went to elementary school with, so "friend" is an overstatement), in accordance to instructions, shared a post from "Chevy USA" in order to qualify for one of five free Chevy trucks.

I looked at Chevy USA and saw that it only had 745 Likes. I voiced my suspicions that an established company like that would have thousands upon thousands of followers (in fact, 16 million). I said that such a group was likely created for Like farming so it could be sold later. Her response was, "ya never know." That's when I just have to give up.

I always give up. It's the only sensible solution.

[Kuildeous]

So a Facebook friend (really, someone I went to elementary school with, so "friend" is an overstatement), in accordance to instructions, shared a post from "Chevy USA" in order to qualify for one of five free Chevy trucks.

I looked at Chevy USA and saw that it only had 745 Likes. I voiced my suspicions that an established company like that would have thousands upon thousands of followers (in fact, 16 million). I said that such a group was likely created for Like farming so it could be sold later. Her response was, "ya never know." That's when I just have to give up.

I always give up. It's the only sensible solution.

The only way to win is to not play.

The desire for free shit is just so strong that she wasn't willing to consider that it's a scam. And that's what they bank on.

[Kuildeous]

Oh, and now the picture instructs the user to visit a web page. Yeah, I commented on it in all caps (so I look like a lunatic) warning people that it's probably a scam.

I also sent the link to Chevy itself.

I don't even care for Chevies. I just hate bullshit.

[Roadrunner7671]

Oh, and now the picture instructs the user to visit a web page. Yeah, I commented on it in all caps (so I look like a lunatic) warning people that it's probably a scam.

I also sent the link to Chevy itself.

I don't even care for Chevies. I just hate bullshit.

I say let natural selection run its course. If they give their credit card information for their free Chevy, I wouldn't try to stop them.

You're just  A GOOD PERSON KUILDEOUS.

[Roadrunner7671]

You're right. I do look like a lunatic.

[JW]

Went scuba diving in the ocean for the first time and was too exhausted to do anything for the rest of the day afterwards. I have newfound respect for Pearl Diver.

[pingpongsam]

Pearl Diver is free diving, no?

[J Reggie]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetris_effect

Apparently that's how it is called when you repeatedly ask your morning alarm to wait one more turn so you can buy another Province...

That's definitely happened to me with Dominion, and also with music. I remember one time I spent many hours arranging a piece that modulated into C flat and the next morning I didn't want to get up because I was in C flat and none of my clothes were and I couldn't go outside without clothes that were in the same key. Like I was seriously ready to ask someone to get me some clothes in C flat.

[Awaclus]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetris_effect

Apparently that's how it is called when you repeatedly ask your morning alarm to wait one more turn so you can buy another Province...

That's definitely happened to me with Dominion, and also with music. I remember one time I spent many hours arranging a piece that modulated into C flat and the next morning I didn't want to get up because I was in C flat and none of my clothes were and I couldn't go outside without clothes that were in a different key. Like I was seriously ready to ask someone to get me some clothes in C flat.

I've also made food whose taste had too many bass frequencies in it.

[gkrieg13]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetris_effect

Apparently that's how it is called when you repeatedly ask your morning alarm to wait one more turn so you can buy another Province...

That's definitely happened to me with Dominion, and also with music. I remember one time I spent many hours arranging a piece that modulated into C flat and the next morning I didn't want to get up because I was in C flat and none of my clothes were and I couldn't go outside without clothes that were in a different key. Like I was seriously ready to ask someone to get me some clothes in C flat.

I've also made food whose taste had too many bass frequencies in it.

You should probably stay away from seafood

[Seprix]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetris_effect

Apparently that's how it is called when you repeatedly ask your morning alarm to wait one more turn so you can buy another Province...

That's definitely happened to me with Dominion, and also with music. I remember one time I spent many hours arranging a piece that modulated into C flat and the next morning I didn't want to get up because I was in C flat and none of my clothes were and I couldn't go outside without clothes that were in a different key. Like I was seriously ready to ask someone to get me some clothes in C flat.

I've also made food whose taste had too many bass frequencies in it.

You should probably stay away from seafood

'C' Bass

[Kirian]

I once played in the orchestra for Ludwig Van Morrison's Concerto for Largemouth Bass.

[Seprix]

A question for you guys. Is YouTube's comments just currently not working for you all?

[Awaclus]

A question for you guys. Is YouTube's comments just currently not working for you all?

I don't know if it's not working for us all.

[J Reggie]

A question for you guys. Is YouTube's comments just currently not working for you all?

Isn't that a good thing?

[Tables]

A question for you guys. Is YouTube's comments just currently not working for you all?

It's pretty much been like that since Youtube started, so don't worry about it.

If you would like to fix it I highly recommend Herp Derp

[pingpongsam]

YouTube comments are the best depiction of the utter stupidity of most people on the internet. I don't even...

[Seprix]

YouTube comments are the best depiction of the utter stupidity of most people on the internet. I don't even...

Except the comment section of Red Letter Media.

[Witherweaver]

So Robz is on Stossel.  Fun fact, I've met Stossel before.. he plays volleyball in NYC; played with him a couple times.

[Roadrunner7671]

Until recently I was using crappy earbuds I got for free that only worked in one ear. Then they didn't work in either ear, and I accidentally ripped them in half. But my mom hates earbuds and never opened hers so I snagged an awesome pair of Apple Earbuds and it feels like a surround sound system because it surrounds me instead of just being off to the left.

[Seprix]

Until recently I was using crappy earbuds I got for free that only worked in one ear. Then they didn't work in either ear, and I accidentally ripped them in half. But my mom hates earbuds and never opened hers so I snagged an awesome pair of Apple Earbuds and it feels like a surround sound system because it surrounds me instead of just being off to the left.

How actually get a good pair of earbuds, and you'll be in heaven. I can help you find that perfect pair too.

[Roadrunner7671]

Until recently I was using crappy earbuds I got for free that only worked in one ear. Then they didn't work in either ear, and I accidentally ripped them in half. But my mom hates earbuds and never opened hers so I snagged an awesome pair of Apple Earbuds and it feels like a surround sound system because it surrounds me instead of just being off to the left.

How actually get a good pair of earbuds, and you'll be in heaven. I can help you find that perfect pair too.

The best type of earbuds are the cheap/free ones. It's not like I use them for anything besides bad rap and YouTube.

[Seprix]

Until recently I was using crappy earbuds I got for free that only worked in one ear. Then they didn't work in either ear, and I accidentally ripped them in half. But my mom hates earbuds and never opened hers so I snagged an awesome pair of Apple Earbuds and it feels like a surround sound system because it surrounds me instead of just being off to the left.

How actually get a good pair of earbuds, and you'll be in heaven. I can help you find that perfect pair too.

The best type of earbuds are the cheap/free ones. It's not like I use them for anything besides bad rap and YouTube.

Except this does not apply to you, because you have not taken that step yet.

[schadd]

The best type of earbuds are the cheap/free ones. It's not like I use them for anything besides bad rap and YouTube.

have you ever tried good rap? i usually don't listen to it but i've heard that it's pretty good

[schadd]

The best type of earbuds are the cheap/free ones. It's not like I use them for anything besides bad rap and YouTube.

have you ever tried good rap? i usually don't listen to it but i've heard that it's pretty good

excuse me. i know that bad rap tends to get a bad rap, and it's fine if you would rather listen to that

[Roadrunner7671]

The best type of earbuds are the cheap/free ones. It's not like I use them for anything besides bad rap and YouTube.

have you ever tried good rap? i usually don't listen to it but i've heard that it's pretty good

I think 'good rap' might be an oxymoron

[Awaclus]

Of course there's good rap, just like there's good vibrato, good screaming, good falsetto, etc. Naturally, it takes a lot of practice before you're able to perform any extended vocal technique well, and rap is not an exception, so there's a lot of vocalists who suck at rap, but you can also find lots of vocalists who have practiced their raps enough to sound good.

[silverspawn]

The best type of earbuds are the cheap/free ones. It's not like I use them for anything besides bad rap and YouTube.

have you ever tried good rap? i usually don't listen to it but i've heard that it's pretty good

I think 'good rap' might be an oxymoron

try the song 'Stan' by eminem

It's the only good rap song I've ever heard! At least the only good one with a name.

[drsteelhammer]

Where does all the aversion to rap come from? I don't really like the Hip Hop culture either, but rap is so versatile and used in so many genres that I doubt you guys like no rap part at all.

[silverspawn]

I think the reason is that the most in-your-face bad music that I and others have been involuntarily subjected to is either rap, techno, a mixture, or cheap pop. As a result I'm pre-disposed to disliking all those genres. I really cannot stand being forced to listen to music. One reason why I never go to certain places.

[Awaclus]

rap, techno, a mixture, or cheap pop. As a result I'm pre-disposed to disliking all those genres.

Except the first one isn't a genre, it's a vocal technique.

[Chris is me]

rap, techno, a mixture, or cheap pop. As a result I'm pre-disposed to disliking all those genres.

Except the first one isn't a genre, it's a vocal technique.

Rap is both a genre and a vocal technique. Not all songs with rap in them fall under the rap genre, and not every song in the rap genre consists entirely of rap.

Hip-hop is generally a preferred, umbrella term, but there are edge cases where songs are definitely rap songs, but are less clearly hip-hop songs.

[silverspawn]

whatevs. hip hop or rap. It's not like I am an expert.

[Witherweaver]

Where does all the aversion to rap come from? I don't really like the Hip Hop culture either, but rap is so versatile and used in so many genres that I doubt you guys like no rap part at all.

Because it's fucking terrible.  Have you listened to anything in the past 20 years?  At least the fucking terrible shit they play in public places.  There is no sense of rhythm, or even of music.

[KingZog3]

I just bought The Talos Principle on Steam. On sale till monday, but even after only playing a bit over an hour, this game is amazing. If you can spare $10, it's worth it. A puzzle game with great atmospheric and philosophical elements. Highly recommend, especially for people on this forum.

[Witherweaver]

It's basically Insane Clown Possee, just in different octaves.

Rap music is not by its nature bad, but the teeny pop shit they play today (oooh, we're so gangsta because we swear and talk about drugs!  Look at me!  Look at me!) is the lowest crap.

[Awaclus]

Rap is both a genre and a vocal technique. Not all songs with rap in them fall under the rap genre, and not every song in the rap genre consists entirely of rap.

Hip-hop is generally a preferred, umbrella term, but there are edge cases where songs are definitely rap songs, but are less clearly hip-hop songs.

Where exactly are you getting this from?

Because it's fucking terrible.  Have you listened to anything in the past 20 years?  At least the fucking terrible shit they play in public places.  There is no sense of rhythm, or even of music.

That is a characteristic of music that gets played in public places, not a characteristic of hip hop (and certainly not a characteristic of rap).

[schadd]

I just bought The Talos Principle on Steam. On sale till monday, but even after only playing a bit over an hour, this game is amazing. If you can spare $10, it's worth it. A puzzle game with great atmospheric and philosophical elements. Highly recommend, especially for people on this forum.

that is correct

[Kirian]

I hate earbuds.  They're uncomfortable and icky.  Give me a good pair of over-the-ear headphones.

No, not Beats, WTF is wrong with you?

[Seprix]

I just bought The Talos Principle on Steam. On sale till monday, but even after only playing a bit over an hour, this game is amazing. If you can spare $10, it's worth it. A puzzle game with great atmospheric and philosophical elements. Highly recommend, especially for people on this forum.

Holy cow, the game looks great. I want to get this. I don't play on my computer though. Is it on the PS4?

[KingZog3]

I just bought The Talos Principle on Steam. On sale till monday, but even after only playing a bit over an hour, this game is amazing. If you can spare $10, it's worth it. A puzzle game with great atmospheric and philosophical elements. Highly recommend, especially for people on this forum.

Holy cow, the game looks great. I want to get this. I don't play on my computer though. Is it on the PS4?

A quick google says it is, but it's probably full price, which was around 45$. It was on sale which is why I bought it. I don't know if it's worth 45$, but I mean, I think it won't be a disappointment no matter the price. I was immersed from the first minute I was playing.

Funny enough, this game does a better job at horror than most horror games, even though that is not the intention. The unknown of the world, and learning what is around you is more scary than a weird monster to me.

[2.71828.....]

In my opinion you don't get better lyricists than in rap music.

[2.71828.....]

I mean, what other genre of music gives you the freedom that you get in rap music to be this creative with your rhymes and lyrics? Granted, I think the message that a majority of rappers choose to put in their songs is not ideal, but still.

[Chris is me]

Rap is the best lyricism and flow of any music in our current generation. Anyone writing it off because of caricatures of what they think popular rappers sound like or what they think of people who listen to rap, is quite simply missing out on the best music of our time, at least in terms of lyrics and rhythmic production.

Also, lots of rap hate has subtle undertones of racism and classism in it. Really.

[Witherweaver]

It's certainly possible there is good, less commercial stuff.  Generally the music of any genre that you hear played, well, anywhere in public is terrible. 

[J Reggie]

Also, lots of rap hate has subtle undertones of racism and classism in it. Really.

Totally agree, bit we probably shouldn't get this thread locked talking about it. Maybe we can make a topic in rsp if people are interested.

[drsteelhammer]

Thanks for the link 2.7, that was really interesting. I'd encourage anyone who is somewhat educated to start a new thread about rap music.

[2.71828.....]

Maybe we can make a topic in rsp if people are interested.

I'd encourage anyone who is somewhat educated to start a new thread about rap music.

Random Stuff: the one thread that cannot get derailed.

[Awaclus]

I mean, what other genre of music gives you the freedom that you get in rap music to be this creative with your rhymes and lyrics?

Pretty much all of them, aside from ones that are defined by lack of vocals or very specific kinds of rhyming. It's true that hip hop usually has remarkably strong rhyming, but there's nothing that prevents other genres of music from having similarly strong rhyming as well, and in various genres of avant-garde music, you'll often find lyrics with creative usage of both rhymes and lack thereof.

Also, lots of rap hate has subtle undertones of racism and classism in it. Really.

That's definitely true and also a pretty big part of the reason why I'm inclined to include raps in my arrangements regardless of the genre and why I choose to wear clothing associated with the hip hop subculture whenever I'm performing any kind of music live, especially if it's solo cello stuff. Although, surely the #1 reason why people dislike rapping and hip hop music has nothing to do with racism or classism and everything to do with laziness and reluctance to learn about any kind of music that you're not already familiar with.

[eHalcyon]

...has nothing to do with racism or classism and everything to do with laziness and reluctance to learn about any kind of music that you're not already familiar with.

The thing is, reluctance to learn about unfamiliar things is one of the roots of intolerance and prejudice.

[Witherweaver]

...has nothing to do with racism or classism and everything to do with laziness and reluctance to learn about any kind of music that you're not already familiar with.

The thing is, reluctance to learn about unfamiliar things is one of the roots of intolerance and prejudice.

It's probably a prerequisite but not a cause.  You can just not want to learn about something because you don't have the time or curiosity for it.  You just accept that you're missing out on whatever benefit may be there.  Like, I don't know anything about gardening.

[silverspawn]

I mean, what other genre of music gives you the freedom that you get in rap music to be this creative with your rhymes and lyrics?

Prog metal.

Or, really, anywhere. It's like Awaclus said. You just have to not care what others think. Here is an example of lyrics from someone who doesn't give a crap of what others think. That isn't even metal. But it should settle any doubts you might have about whether people can do what they want if they do what they want.

[silverspawn]

Rap is the best lyricism and flow of any music in our current generation. Anyone writing it off because of caricatures of what they think popular rappers sound like or what they think of people who listen to rap, is quite simply missing out on the best music of our time, at least in terms of lyrics and rhythmic production.

Also, lots of rap hate has subtle undertones of racism and classism in it. Really.

Awesome. I'm probably missing out. Can you give an example of some of the best lyrics out there?

[Roadrunner7671]

Also, lots of rap hate has subtle undertones of racism and classism in it. Really.

Totally agree, bit we probably shouldn't get this thread locked talking about it. Maybe we can make a topic in rsp if people are interested.

I already know J Reggie's favorite rapper 

[J Reggie]

Also, lots of rap hate has subtle undertones of racism and classism in it. Really.

Totally agree, bit we probably shouldn't get this thread locked talking about it. Maybe we can make a topic in rsp if people are interested.

I already know J Reggie's favorite rapper 

Not sure if I get this reference...

[Seprix]

I think J Reggie is more into J-Reggae.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_reggae

Yes, it's real.

[Awaclus]

...has nothing to do with racism or classism and everything to do with laziness and reluctance to learn about any kind of music that you're not already familiar with.

The thing is, reluctance to learn about unfamiliar things is one of the roots of intolerance and prejudice.

Just because you have a reluctance to learn about unfamiliar music doesn't mean you have a reluctance to learn about unfamiliar people. The vast majority of the population has the former and doesn't have the latter, and usually when people dislike hip hop, they also dislike other genres of music that are more associated with reasonably wealthy white people.

Awesome. I'm probably missing out. Can you give an example of some of the best lyrics out there?

And some of the best sound design to go with it:

[Chris is me]

Rap is the best lyricism and flow of any music in our current generation. Anyone writing it off because of caricatures of what they think popular rappers sound like or what they think of people who listen to rap, is quite simply missing out on the best music of our time, at least in terms of lyrics and rhythmic production.

Also, lots of rap hate has subtle undertones of racism and classism in it. Really.

Awesome. I'm probably missing out. Can you give an example of some of the best lyrics out there?

I'm not going to do rap justice here, but here's a few. The video linked earlier in the thread is really quite something. Highly recommend it to understand a lot of rap's appeal.

Kanye West ft. Rick Ross, Jay-Z, Nicki Minaj - Monster

The Jay-Z verse kinda sucks here, but other than that this song has excellent production, tons of killer lines from Kanye, and quite possibly the best verse of the 2000s from Nicki Minaj. Highlights include Kanye's punchline "Have you ever had sex with a pharaoh? Put the pussy in a sarcophagus". And then he keeps rhyming things with sarcophagus! What the fuck.

But really, the Minaj verse carries the whole song and album here. Someone you probably didn't take seriously before you heard this song manages to completely switch vocal tones and styles within the middle of a single line, multipl times.

Black Star (Mos Def / Talib Kweli) - Definition

If you're one of those people who's like "I would like rap but I get really hung up on the violent misogynistic messages", congrats, this great song doesn't really have much of that. It's a great example of the kind of technical wordplay and multisyllable rhyming structures that are a highlight of both rappers at their peak. It's a little dated, but it's still a great song that you almost have to listen to several times to pick up all the setups and verses.

I'll do more soon, I'm on my phone and just wanted to post a few favorites.

[schadd]

does this count

[Witherweaver]

If we're talking clever lyrics and rhyming schemes, I would submit:



Lyrics (it's kind of hard to hear the words on first listen) with possible minor errors:

http://songmeanings.com/songs/view/3530822107858561396/


I specifically love "sin and illness" in "a crime, crime, crime/ sin and illness is time".  It's almost like an auditory palindrome: the 'sin' at the beginning mirrors the end of "ness" (or 'sen' backwards). 

There is also heavy use of consonance and alliteration, and I think the song breaks up into different consonant blocks: starts with a lot of 'm', 'b', 'l, and "soft" 'n' sounds, also with alliteration of 's'.  Then it moves into a more... harsher? harder? pattern with 's' sounds throughout ('slipped us mickeys', etc.) , with "harder" n sounds.  (Not sure I can explain what I mean by "soft" 'n' and "hard" 'n', but first they work with the more calm 'm' sounds that make them feel softer and then with the second verse ('sin', 'illness', 'neither', 'nor', 'nasty').  Then it goes softer again, with "w" and "r" sounds throughout.  Since the song also has a theme of changing seasons, I think this kind of pattern works on multiple levels.

The simple end-of-line rhyme scheme is standard, I think, but the internal structure is, at least in my opinion, really neat.

Not to mention the actual lyrical content, which contains some metaphors that I think are just hilarious and particularly clever.  Like love is lighter than air, so our only hope is to climb into a blimp of romance.  You know, because blimps rise above air; maybe we can catch our fleeting love with one.  Love which by its very nature slips through our fingers (say, like sand) as time goes on.  So we have to do things to keep it alive (getaway at the beach), but time still fights us, so we need to make big romantic gestures to save it.

Also, fulsome.  What a great word. 

Well, I really like this song so I guess I'm biased, but I feel like everything in it works really well together. 

[Tables]

I've completed three trials of the new Ace Attorney (Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney Spirit of Justice) and I'm already like 80% confident that (potential spoilers up to that point) 1: The client in the final trial is going to be Rayfa and 2: Her dad is going to be the prime suspect but turn out not to be the one who committed the murder. I dunno who the victim will be yet, Dhurke or Nahyuta probably

Anyway I'm sure I'll find out before too long.

[Kuildeous]

I generally am not a fan of rap.

But I do find Bo Burnham to be particularly witty. His math song is pretty cool, though I don't know if that would qualify as rap.

His Words, Words, Words song does, though.

[Kirian]

Also, lots of rap hate has subtle undertones of racism and classism in it. Really.

No way, next you'll tell me that Fear of a Black Planet and "Fuck tha Police" are political!

[Kirian]

I've completed three trials of the new Ace Attorney (Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney Spirit of Justice) and I'm already like 80% confident that (potential spoilers up to that point) 1: The client in the final trial is going to be Rayfa and 2: Her dad is going to be the prime suspect but turn out not to be the one who committed the murder. I dunno who the victim will be yet, Dhurke or Nahyuta probably

Anyway I'm sure I'll find out before too long.

It's Mr. Green, in the Hall, with the Revolver.

[sudgy]

Hey, the Major General song has good rhymes!

I've heard people say it's basically rap before rap was made...

[Infthitbox]

Re: personal music listening equipment

If you can spare $1000, I'd go with the Grado Statement Series, which are the headphones I have. Admittedly, this would also require that your music player and music files are of sufficient quality to shine through.

That being said, you aren't going to get a great experience out of any earbuds, so having ones that work on both sides is pretty good if that's the game you're in.

Re: rap

There is garbage music in every genre, and in fact, it is that garbage you are mostly likely to casually encounter. I don't tend to seek out rap, but I do listen to My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy (the album containing the song Monster that chris mentioned) quite frequently. 

[Witherweaver]

There is garbage music in every genre, and in fact, it is that garbage you are mostly likely to casually encounter.

I think this is the basic thing.

[Awaclus]

If you can spare $1000, I'd go with the Grado Statement Series, which are the headphones I have.

I'm not familiar with those particular headphones, but generally speaking, getting headphones that cost more than $100 is a massive waste unless you also have a decent headphone amplifier because the built-in headphone amps in computers and such are horrible crap.

[Infthitbox]

If you can spare $1000, I'd go with the Grado Statement Series, which are the headphones I have.

I'm not familiar with those particular headphones, but generally speaking, getting headphones that cost more than $100 is a massive waste unless you also have a decent headphone amplifier because the built-in headphone amps in computers and such are horrible crap.

These are actually good about that; but yes, when I use my computer (which I typically don't do for music but occasionally do for other media) it is rather lackluster. My media player itself powers them beautifully.

[Seprix]

I was in logic class today, and somebody formatted an argument basically like this:

'A ≡ ~A'

I tried not to, but I ended up laughing.

[Tables]

I'm now up to case 5, just finished Investigation 1. Wow. 200% unexpected.

[Seprix]

I'm now up to case 5, just finished Investigation 1. Wow. 200% unexpected.

Phoenix Wright?

[Kirian]

I'm now up to case 5, just finished Investigation 1. Wow. 200% unexpected.

Phoenix Wright?

The third sequel, Phoenix Wleft.

[LastFootnote]

I'm now up to case 5, just finished Investigation 1. Wow. 200% unexpected.

Yeah, I saw that you were also playing it the other day. I just started case 3.

[Tables]

Yeah, I saw that you were also playing it the other day. I just started case 3.

I lost a lot of motivation for case 3 when I saw that (spoiler from early in investigation 1) Maya was the client again. Because that one hasn't been done to death, especially after they just used Trucy for case 2. But the case did grow on me as I went.

Anyway I ended up playing about an hour longer than I was meant to in case 5 just to see if it would really deliver. It really delivered.

[ConMan]

Where does all the aversion to rap come from? I don't really like the Hip Hop culture either, but rap is so versatile and used in so many genres that I doubt you guys like no rap part at all.

It just got a bad rap, is all.

[Witherweaver]

Where does all the aversion to rap come from? I don't really like the Hip Hop culture either, but rap is so versatile and used in so many genres that I doubt you guys like no rap part at all.

It just got a bad rap, is all.

I feel like this joke was already made. 

[Limetime]

"Beethoven's 9th rap"

[LastFootnote]

I lost a lot of motivation for case 3 when I saw that (spoiler from early in investigation 1) Maya was the client again. Because that one hasn't been done to death, especially after they just used Trucy for case 2. But the case did grow on me as I went.

I just got to that point. Honestly it doesn't really bother me. If Maya was going to show up an any real capacity, it had to be as either the defendant or an assistant. "Defendant" has more weight, and also gives Phoenix a reason to defend another client in Khura'in despite the court system there. I'm just glad she isn't the victim instead.

[McGarnacle]

Yeah, I saw that you were also playing it the other day. I just started case 3.

I lost a lot of motivation for case 3 when I saw that (spoiler from early in investigation 1) Maya was the client again. Because that one hasn't been done to death, especially after they just used Trucy for case 2. But the case did grow on me as I went.

Anyway I ended up playing about an hour longer than I was meant to in case 5 just to see if it would really deliver. It really delivered.

This sounds like you guys are talking about Deal Or No Deal.

[Tables]

As someone who spends a lot of time on internet forums, I've decided the worst kind of people are the ones who post several (like 6-10 or more) topics in the space of a day or two, all with little or no points for discussion - e.g. they're asking a simple yes/no question (bonus points if they do this repeatedly with multiple topics each asking a different simple question, double bonus points if all of these questions were answered very directly in the board FAQ), or they're asking people for opinions on something nobody really cares about, or asking plot questions (with a request for no spoilers) about something that's obviously coming up in the plot soon (bonus points if they mark said questions as being a plot hole, double bonus points if they predict where the plot is going in multiple different threads, with things that contradict what has already happened in the plot).

I've so far met two people who do this, and it sucks. They aren't breaking any rules, but they drain the discussion away from the board. And it sucks going back to a favorite board and find there are 10+ new threads, all at the top of the board, all with topics like the above. All have 0-2 replies, and you have to keep scrolling down to find the actually interesting threads. And they aren't gonna just go away and disappear, of course. You're going to keep seeing 5-10 new threads with inane questions or boring trivia every day for as long as they're around.

[Witherweaver]

As someone who spends a lot of time on internet forums, I've decided the worst kind of people are the ones who post several (like 6-10 or more) topics in the space of a day or two, all with little or no points for discussion - e.g. they're asking a simple yes/no question (bonus points if they do this repeatedly with multiple topics each asking a different simple question, double bonus points if all of these questions were answered very directly in the board FAQ), or they're asking people for opinions on something nobody really cares about, or asking plot questions (with a request for no spoilers) about something that's obviously coming up in the plot soon (bonus points if they mark said questions as being a plot hole, double bonus points if they predict where the plot is going in multiple different threads, with things that contradict what has already happened in the plot).

I've so far met two people who do this, and it sucks. They aren't breaking any rules, but they drain the discussion away from the board. And it sucks going back to a favorite board and find there are 10+ new threads, all at the top of the board, all with topics like the above. All have 0-2 replies, and you have to keep scrolling down to find the actually interesting threads. And they aren't gonna just go away and disappear, of course. You're going to keep seeing 5-10 new threads with inane questions or boring trivia every day for as long as they're around.

I didn't read this post.  Does it contain any nudity?

[Seprix]

It took me forever to realize, but RagingDuck is Andrew Iannaconne. AI. It all makes sense now.

[Seprix]

Join my Discord Server. Crazy things happen there.

https://discord.gg/quMDB

Don't miss out.

[silverspawn]

Join my Discord Server. Crazy things happen there.

https://discord.gg/quMDB

Don't miss out.

I had a dream just today about discord interfering to stop Rainbow Dash from warning the world about an incoming large-scale Zombie attack, but I saved the world by revealing it and telling everyone to inform Russia and USA asap to send their armies.

Can your server live up to that level of craziness?

[Kuildeous]

But enough about Time Cube.

[Seprix]

Join my Discord Server. Crazy things happen there.

https://discord.gg/quMDB

Don't miss out.

I had a dream just today about discord interfering to stop Rainbow Dash from warning the world about an incoming large-scale Zombie attack, but I saved the world by revealing it and telling everyone to inform Russia and USA asap to send their armies.

Can your server live up to that level of craziness?

Who knows. Nobody is in the server yet 

[Roadrunner7671]

Pros and cons of Twitter vs. Instagram?

[Awaclus]

Pros and cons of Twitter vs. Instagram?

Both are not recommended.

[mail-mi]

let's talk about the portal series.

Is anyone else as obsessed with it as I am?

[eHalcyon]

let's talk about the portal series.

Is anyone else as obsessed with it as I am?

Did you just recently play the games for the first time?

[mail-mi]

let's talk about the portal series.

Is anyone else as obsessed with it as I am?

Did you just recently play the games for the first time?

It was like a year ago.

[LaLight]

let's talk about the portal series.

Is anyone else as obsessed with it as I am?

Yes, yes and YES. I'm playing it for 4-5 years and still playing. I love it. My friend once said: "Why can all the games not be Portal variations?" and that's true. Really true. Also, check out Talos Principle.

Portal is the best.

[KingZog3]

let's talk about the portal series.

Is anyone else as obsessed with it as I am?

Yes, yes and YES. I'm playing it for 4-5 years and still playing. I love it. My friend once said: "Why can all the games not be Portal variations?" and that's true. Really true. Also, check out Talos Principle.

Portal is the best.

I posted about Talos principle recently. I'm very impressed. Portal is the only comparison, but it's very different.

[LaLight]

let's talk about the portal series.

Is anyone else as obsessed with it as I am?

Yes, yes and YES. I'm playing it for 4-5 years and still playing. I love it. My friend once said: "Why can all the games not be Portal variations?" and that's true. Really true. Also, check out Talos Principle.

Portal is the best.

I posted about Talos principle recently. I'm very impressed. Portal is the only comparison, but it's very different.

Yeah, they definitely are different, but both are masterpieces.

[Lekkit]

Played the first one years after it came out. Played the second one like... Two years ago with the wife. Still haven't finished the single player campaign.

[Qvist]

If you like Portal and similar games, check out the new Turing Test

[sitnaltax]

If you like Portal and similar games, check out the new Turing Test

I'll second the recommendation for The Talos Principle for Portal fans. The tone of the game is different (serious and somber instead of darkly comic) but the puzzles are excellent. Thanks for this recommendation; it looks interesting

I played a similar game called QUBE that I would not recommend unless you're desperate. About 2/3 of the way through the game, the puzzles just turn terrible; a big disappointment.

[Seprix]

I love the Talos Principle. The secrets are so well hidden. I did a little bit of cheating and looking up the locations of some of the Stars and how to get them because they're so absurdly hidden. But for the most part, it's been 99% me. World A is completely beaten so far.

[Seprix]

I've never played Portal. I guess I will one day.

[mail-mi]

I've never played Portal. I guess I will one day.

Make that one day sooner rather than later.

[pacovf]

I've never played Portal. I guess I will one day.

Make that one day sooner rather than later today.

FTFY

[Seprix]

I'm really disappointed with Apple. Their new phone is awful. I will not be purchasing an Apple phone in the future. It's just obvious Android is better at this point. They're also dropping ports for their Macbook and making it impossible for me to upgrade my RAM or other components without buying an entirely new computer. I am furious. I absolutely love Apple's UI, but I'm not going to just bend over and take it up the ass for Apple. Nope, sorry. The next computer I get will be a Hackintosh or a PC.

[pingpongsam]

I'm really disappointed with Apple. I've been taking their Apple shaped dong up my butt for years telling myself I liked it and I am just now coming around to the idea that it has been terrible all along.

FTFY

[Ichimaru Gin]

[Kuildeous]

Pros and cons of Twitter vs. Instagram?

I don't know that much about Instagram, but I was vastly underwhelmed by Twitter. I still don't see the big deal about it. One may accuse me of being too old to appreciate it. Maybe.

But as some people here already know, I do not encapsulate my thoughts into quick, short sentences. Perhaps that is a flaw of my style and I merely piss everyone off with prolix prose. I don't know.

In any case, I cannot limit myself to a mere 140 characters--even fewer when you retweet or reply or whatever it is that addresses another user before you make your tweet.

And what is the point of having a 140-character limit if you're just to post a link to a page that is much bigger anyway?

I've seen no reason to take Twitter seriously.

[silverspawn]

I think twitter makes sense for celebrities who regularly put out live content

other than that ... I don't get share appeal either. corrected, I do think I get it.

[eHalcyon]

Portal and Portal 2 were great.  I think I have Talos Principle purchased but I haven't played it yet.

[Seprix]

Portal and Portal 2 were great.  I think I have Talos Principle purchased but I haven't played it yet.

You buy games and don't play them?

[silverspawn]

You buy games?

[Awaclus]

In any case, I cannot limit myself to a mere 140 characters

Problems of a hardcore MMORPG player.

[Seprix]

You buy games?

Yes, I don't steal the intellectual property of people who worked hard to create the games you enjoy. If you enjoy something, you really really should pay for it.

[silverspawn]

You buy games?

Yes, I don't steal the intellectual property of people who worked hard to create the games you enjoy. If you enjoy something, you really really should pay for it.

any amount of money you spend on a game is an amount of money you don't spend on the charity of your choice instead. I don't think spending money on games is morally acceptable in most cases (if it can be avoided).

[Seprix]

You buy games?

Yes, I don't steal the intellectual property of people who worked hard to create the games you enjoy. If you enjoy something, you really really should pay for it.

any amount of money you spend on a game is an amount of money you don't spend on the charity of your choice instead. I don't think spending money on games is morally acceptable in most cases (if it can be avoided).

With that logic, you can justify not paying for anything at all if you can get away with it. Go mooch your neighbor's WiFi, you'll save money that way.

[mail-mi]

You buy games?

Yes, I don't steal the intellectual property of people who worked hard to create the games you enjoy. If you enjoy something, you really really should pay for it.

any amount of money you spend on a game is an amount of money you don't spend on the charity of your choice instead. I don't think spending money on games is morally acceptable in most cases (if it can be avoided).

You should also probably stop spending money on Internet and phone and TV then, and donate that to charity too.

[silverspawn]

You buy games?

Yes, I don't steal the intellectual property of people who worked hard to create the games you enjoy. If you enjoy something, you really really should pay for it.

any amount of money you spend on a game is an amount of money you don't spend on the charity of your choice instead. I don't think spending money on games is morally acceptable in most cases (if it can be avoided).

With that logic, you can justify not paying for anything at all if you can get away with it. Go mooch your neighbor's WiFi, you'll save money that way.

Yes. Unfortunately, the fact that the conclusion is hyper-uncomfortable does not make it any less true. To solve this problem, I advise applying it where it is easy, and not applying it where it is not. It might sound cheap, but it's better than not applying it at all. You can always work your way upwards.

You buy games?

Yes, I don't steal the intellectual property of people who worked hard to create the games you enjoy. If you enjoy something, you really really should pay for it.

any amount of money you spend on a game is an amount of money you don't spend on the charity of your choice instead. I don't think spending money on games is morally acceptable in most cases (if it can be avoided).

You should also probably stop spending money on Internet and phone and TV then, and donate that to charity too.

Well, I have never spent money on TV, only once spent money on internet, and a total of roughly 25€ on my phone... so far. I'm trying.

[mail-mi]

You're a better man than I.

[silverspawn]

Not as much as this makes it sound, probably. I'm great at not doing bad things, but not nearly as good at doing good things. You could have probably been more responsible according to my logic by being a lot more wasteful but having had a job for a few years and donating the salary (parallel to your education, I mean).

At least until now. I've just applied to teach private lessons in maths two days ago. Hope that works out!

[silverspawn]

Frankly, though, I do think that everytime you want to spend money on a movie or a game which you could get for free, you should instead get it for free and donate the same amount here or here. I'm sure others will disagree but I think it's a clear case. And it's something you can do with very little effort.

Alright. I'll stop preaching now and continue to err do things.

[pacovf]

Veering into RSP, but you could also pay those people that worked hard for your entertainment, and then let them decide whether they want to give their money to charity. They've earned that choice.

[Seprix]

Think of it this way, Silverspawn. You work hard at a burger joint, and your boss decides to take your paycheck and donate it to charity. Or maybe you're a hot hog vendor, and the guy who takes your hot dog promises to donate to charity instead of paying you. Regardless of whether it is a noble thing to give to charity or not (I stipulate it is actually not that useful for many reasons, regardless of the intentions of the giver), the point is that you worked for something, and you deserve what you get for working.

[silverspawn]

those are nice mental excuses you can make, but they don't work if you agree with the principle.

Veering into RSP, but you could also pay those people that worked hard for your entertainment, and then let them decide whether they want to give their money to charity. They've earned that choice.

that would work if you could assume that they all consequent utilitarians. I'd give that less than 1% of being true.

they won't be responsible with the money. it's up to you.

Think of it this way, silverspawn. You work hard at a burger joint, and your boss decides to take your paycheck and donate it to charity. Or maybe you're a hot hog vendor, and the guy who takes your hot dog promises to donate to charity instead of paying you. Regardless of whether it is a noble thing to give to charity or not (I stipulate it is actually not that useful for many reasons, regardless of the intentions of the giver), the point is that you worked for something, and you deserve what you get for working.

stating the obvious: he wouldn't get away with that and won't do it.

a premise of my moral is that only outcomes matter. If you value the concept of deserving something you can probably reach different conclusions. Although the family you'd give money to by using e.g. GiveDirectly would probably deserve it a lot more if you measure it by how much they work for how much they have.

(I stipulate it is actually not that useful for many reasons, regardless of the intentions of the giver)

That's another thing that's convenient to believe. In this case I can confidently say that it's not true - for the charities I linked. It depends on the charity.

[Awaclus]

You buy games?

Yes, I don't steal the intellectual property of people who worked hard to create the games you enjoy. If you enjoy something, you really really should pay for it.

The concept of intellectual property is BS. You can't own an abstract idea, and something that you can infinitely duplicate shouldn't have any value. I would pay for the time they spend working on the game, but most game developers choose to do that for free instead.

[Seprix]

Only outcomes matter? The ends do not always justify the means. That's morality 101.

[Awaclus]

Only outcomes matter?

Yes, it's called consequentialism and it's a super popular ethical view these days.

[Seprix]

Only outcomes matter?

Yes, it's called consequentialism and it's a super popular ethical view these days.

That's very sad to hear. It's things like this that make me want to be religious. At least religious people have a concept of doing the right thing for it's own sake, for honesty and truth, rather than simply because the outcome happens to be good.

[Awaclus]

That's very sad to hear. It's things like this that make me want to be religious. At least religious people have a concept of doing the right thing for it's own sake, for honesty and truth, rather than simply because the outcome happens to be good.

Good intentions don't improve anyone's life. Good outcomes do.

[Kirian]

You can't own an abstract idea

Yes I can.  I cannot force you to acknowledge my ownership, but I also can't force you to acknowledge my ownership of my wallet, or my computer.  Just because it is easier to steal the former doesn't make it any less of a theft.

and something that you can infinitely duplicate shouldn't have any value.

Says who?  Who let you dictate societal norms and laws?  Ideas and words have value.

I would pay for the time they spend working on the game, but most game developers choose to do that for free instead.

...

...

No they don't.  Most game developers get paid in some fashion.  They require food and shelter just like you do.

[ConMan]

Good intentions don't improve anyone's life. Good outcomes do.

Ok then, I claim that people getting fairly compensated for creative work is a good outcome, because it both lets them work on their art without needing to worry about getting a so-called "real" job, and it provides them an incentive to create the kinds of things that people like.

Without intellectual property, you don't get Dominion, because while there may still be a Rio Grande Games who can sell you pieces of cardboard in a box, you don't have Donald X Vaccarinos who come up with words to go on the cards and rules for moving the cards around, nor do you have Claus Stephans to draw pretty pictures to co on the cards.

[McGarnacle]

That's very sad to hear. It's things like this that make me want to be religious. At least religious people have a concept of doing the right thing for it's own sake, for honesty and truth, rather than simply because the outcome happens to be good.

Good intentions don't improve anyone's life. Good outcomes do.

As someone who has actually read it, I can tell you this is strait out of Machiavelli's "The Prince". The end justifies the means is a philosophy posited by those who don't understand the whole point of doing good things.

[pacovf]

that would work if you could assume that they all consequent utilitarians. I'd give that less than 1% of being true.

they won't be responsible with the money. it's up to you.

But somehow only people doing entertainment that can be distributed online get to have their money directed to charity because you say so? Are they somehow more irresponsible than other professions?

[eHalcyon]

If you believe that it is more ethical to not pay for entertainment and donate that money to charity instead, then the real ethical thing is to donate the money anyway and also not steal the entertainment.  It's not a necessity, you can just not play the game and not watch the movie.  Or you can only play/watch things that are legally free.

Except, of course, that any time spent on that entertainment is time you could have spent volunteering for those charities.

[SpaceAnemone]

Frankly, though, I do think that everytime you want to spend money on a movie or a game which you could get for free, you should instead get it for free and donate the same amount here or here. I'm sure others will disagree but I think it's a clear case. And it's something you can do with very little effort.

Alright. I'll stop preaching now and continue to err do things.

I absolutely agree 100% about following Givewell for charity donations. I'm not totally sure your logic about free computer games follows, unless you happen to apply that to lots of other purchasing decisions across the board as well, and happen to give all your leftover money to charities anyway. I find it easier to donate 10% of my salary to start with, then spend the rest on what I want.

And if maximising charity donation is actually a concern for you, there is/was a whole movement called 80000 Hours, that was trying to get smart philanthropic students to take up high-paid careers in stuff not usually considered to be very altruistic, like banking, so they could earn more and donate more. So I think if you're genuine about minimising the amount of your total money pot that you send to non-Givewell-listed causes like games devs, you should probably also be quite serious about maximising the size of that pot of money to begin with.

[SpaceAnemone]

Except, of course, that any time spent on that entertainment is time you could have spent volunteering for those charities.

Volunteering directly for the really good charities Silver mentions is often not a great way to further their causes. If you look at how much human life you can save (usually measured in disability-adjusted life-years, by groups like the WHO), it's almost always orders of magnitude better to send money to a third world country to treat specific problems there (malaria, parasitic infections and malnutrition being the most common ones) than to get involved yourself.

[eHalcyon]

Except, of course, that any time spent on that entertainment is time you could have spent volunteering for those charities.

Volunteering directly for the really good charities Silver mentions is often not a great way to further their causes. If you look at how much human life you can save (usually measured in disability-adjusted life-years, by groups like the WHO), it's almost always orders of magnitude better to send money to a third world country to treat specific problems there (malaria, parasitic infections and malnutrition being the most common ones) than to get involved yourself.

Fair enough.  So you should spend all your time working to earn money to donate.

[silverspawn]

that would work if you could assume that they all consequent utilitarians. I'd give that less than 1% of being true.

they won't be responsible with the money. it's up to you.

But somehow only people doing entertainment that can be distributed online get to have their money directed to charity because you say so? Are they somehow more irresponsible than other professions?

No, most people in western countries should have parts of their money directed to charity. This isn't any more true for people doing entertainment than it is for people doing anything else. It primarily depends on how much money they have.

The difference is one of opportunity. For people doing entertainment, you have the opportunity right now to change that and make the world a better place. For the aldi brothers, you don't have a way of making them do it, let alone a way that requires no effort. If you had, you should do that, too.

I'm not totally sure your logic about free computer games follows, unless you happen to apply that to lots of other purchasing decisions across the board as well

Largely

Except, of course, that any time spent on that entertainment is time you could have spent volunteering for those charities.

Volunteering directly for the really good charities Silver mentions is often not a great way to further their causes. If you look at how much human life you can save (usually measured in disability-adjusted life-years, by groups like the WHO), it's almost always orders of magnitude better to send money to a third world country to treat specific problems there (malaria, parasitic infections and malnutrition being the most common ones) than to get involved yourself.

Fair enough.  So you should spend all your time working to earn money to donate.

I don't think I actually said that, but I agree with it. You can also read this for an elaborate stance.

And yes, you should.

But you won't, because most humans aren't willing to give up so much of their own lives. I'm not willing to study banking because I find the idea repulsive.

That's why I suggested something that you can do with no effort that will make you a better person immediately. The fact that there are lots of other things which would also make you a better person is true but doesn't invalidate it.

[silverspawn]

Only outcomes matter? The ends do not always justify the means. That's morality 101.

That's what I've been told numerous times throughout my life and every time I just kept thinking IT'S NOT TRUE! IT'S OBVIOUSLY NOT TRUE! IT MAKES ON SENSE! YOU AREN'T EVEN THINKING! ARGH!

You can make every consequent morality that is oriented on principles fall apart with the right scenarios, with no exception. Because principled moral just frankly makes zero sense. It's an incredibly controversial thing to say but not more than saying that the earth circles around the sun a few hundred years ago.

So let's say Peter earns 30 000 $ each month and lives fairly comfortable with that. Now imagine you had a button that you can press, and every time you do he loses 1$ of his next salary and a poor family in Africa gets it instead. Is it right or wrong to press that button?

Now I give you a second button. Whenever you press that one, you take 1$ away from a poor family in Africa and add it to Peter's salary. I'm sure we can agree that you shouldn't even touch this button. But those two buttons do the exact opposite. So both an option and the reverse of that option are wrong?

[Note that I'm using small amounts to have largely linear effects]

If the answer is yes I think that should make you rethink things.

Onward. In the next scenario, you don't have buttons anymore. Instead you have a switch, with one side labeled "Africa" and the other side labeled "Peter". In two hours, the state of the switch will trigger an effect. If it is on Peter, he will receive his full salary. If it is on "Africa", our America family will receive 1$ of his salary. The default setting of the switch is "Africa". Is it correct to switch it back to "Peter" to take money away from the African family to Peter to avoid having him lose money he earned? If the answer is "no" then what happened to your principle? And if the answer is "yes", then that should make you think, because flipping this switch has the same effect as pressing the second button, which we already agreed is evil.

And lastly, imagine you have a second switch with sides labeled as "Transfer" and "No transfer", which determines not wether 1$ but 500 000 $ picked evenly from 5000 wealthy but fair working people's people's salaries are being transferred to a couple of families in Africa. It's a safe bet that at least a couple of people will live if "Transfer" is chosen but not if "No transfer" is chosen.

Do you switch it if the default setting is "Transfer?" Do you switch it if the default setting is "No transfer?"

With a principled moral, you have to bend over backwards and around on a handstand to come up with satisfying solutions (if I'm wrong about that, correct me, give me your answers).

If you value outcomes, it's the simplest thing in the world. You go with redistribution every time. Done.

[Awaclus]

Yes I can.  I cannot force you to acknowledge my ownership, but I also can't force you to acknowledge my ownership of my wallet, or my computer.  Just because it is easier to steal the former doesn't make it any less of a theft.

No you can't. Any abstract idea can be represented by a number and numbers just inherently exist.

and something that you can infinitely duplicate shouldn't have any value.

Says who?  Who let you dictate societal norms and laws?  Ideas and words have value.

The law of supply and demand.

I would pay for the time they spend working on the game, but most game developers choose to do that for free instead.

No they don't.  Most game developers get paid in some fashion.  They require food and shelter just like you do.

The people who work for a company that develops games might get paid for their time by the company, but it's super rare for the company to get paid for that by the customers. Instead, the company gets paid for merchandise (e.g. game DVD ROMs) which is also understandable because the physical merch does have value too, and digital copies of the game, which is ridiculous.

Ok then, I claim that people getting fairly compensated for creative work is a good outcome, because it both lets them work on their art without needing to worry about getting a so-called "real" job, and it provides them an incentive to create the kinds of things that people like.

Without intellectual property, you don't get Dominion, because while there may still be a Rio Grande Games who can sell you pieces of cardboard in a box, you don't have Donald X Vaccarinos who come up with words to go on the cards and rules for moving the cards around, nor do you have Claus Stephans to draw pretty pictures to co on the cards.

People getting compensated for creative work is reasonable. People getting compensated for copies of numbers is not. Without intellectual property, you could still get Dominion, because there may be a Rio Grande Games who can sell you pieces of cardboard in a box and hire Donald X to come up with words to go on the cards and rules for moving the cards around. Without Rio Grande Games, Donald X could use something like Kickstarter to essentially let the end customers hire him and pay for his work directly.


It's worth noting that you can legally download my band's music for free and you can create whatever derivative works you want as long as those derivative works are released under the same license. While I want to do this just out of principle as well, I also think that it's the best strategy if we want to succeed as professional musicians because having people listen to our music for free is vastly preferable to having people not listen to our music at all. Mostly, intellectual property laws just serve to further benefit the record labels and artists who don't have any real financial issues to begin with, at the cost of artists who are just starting out.

[blueblimp]

Frankly, though, I do think that everytime you want to spend money on a movie or a game which you could get for free, you should instead get it for free and donate the same amount here or here.

Do you do this?

[ashersky]

Only outcomes matter? The ends do not always justify the means. That's morality 101.

That's what I've been told numerous times throughout my life and every time I just kept thinking IT'S NOT TRUE! IT'S OBVIOUSLY NOT TRUE! IT MAKES ON SENSE! YOU AREN'T EVEN THINKING! ARGH!

You can make every consequent morality that is oriented on principles fall apart with the right scenarios, with no exception. Because principled moral just frankly makes zero sense. It's an incredibly controversial thing to say but not more than saying that the earth circles around the sun a few hundred years ago.

So let's say Peter earns 30 000 $ each month and lives fairly comfortable with that. Now imagine you had a button that you can press, and every time you do he loses 1$ of his next salary and a poor family in Africa gets it instead. Is it right or wrong to press that button?

Now I give you a second button. Whenever you press that one, you take 1$ away from a poor family in Africa and add it to Peter's salary. I'm sure we can agree that you shouldn't even touch this button. But those two buttons do the exact opposite. So both an option and the reverse of that option are wrong?

[Note that I'm using small amounts to have largely linear effects]

If the answer is yes I think that should make you rethink things.

Onward. In the next scenario, you don't have buttons anymore. Instead you have a switch, with one side labeled "Africa" and the other side labeled "Peter". In two hours, the state of the switch will trigger an effect. If it is on Peter, he will receive his full salary. If it is on "Africa", our America family will receive 1$ of his salary. The default setting of the switch is "Africa". Is it correct to switch it back to "Peter" to take money away from the African family to Peter to avoid having him lose money he earned? If the answer is "no" then what happened to your principle? And if the answer is "yes", then that should make you think, because flipping this switch has the same effect as pressing the second button, which we already agreed is evil.

And lastly, imagine you have a second switch with sides labeled as "Transfer" and "No transfer", which determines not wether 1$ but 500 000 $ picked evenly from 5000 wealthy but fair working people's people's salaries are being transferred to a couple of families in Africa. It's a safe bet that at least a couple of people will live if "Transfer" is chosen but not if "No transfer" is chosen.

Do you switch it if the default setting is "Transfer?" Do you switch it if the default setting is "No transfer?"

With a principled moral, you have to bend over backwards and around on a handstand to come up with satisfying solutions (if I'm wrong about that, correct me, give me your answers).

If you value outcomes, it's the simplest thing in the world. You go with redistribution every time. Done.

Assume Peter has 100 Euros in his bank account that he's not using.  Should you steal that money and give it to the poor, according to your moral system?

[silverspawn]

Frankly, though, I do think that everytime you want to spend money on a movie or a game which you could get for free, you should instead get it for free and donate the same amount here or here.

Do you do this?

I've spent very little money on things I could get for free for several years now, and donated not quite half of my savings to GiveWell's Give Directly a while ago, so in effect I think I've been largely doing it. I did not do the literal thing of making lots of small donations every time. I'm pretty sure I don't actually have enough money to pay for all music and movies I have on my hard drive even if you subtract the above amount.

Right now I'm trying to figure out whether it's crazy to donate to anything not related to climate change even if it's efficient. I mostly chose Give Directly to make sure charity doesn't have the humiliating factor. "I am wealthy, I will do this thing for you, you will be grateful." Or things like destroying local businesses by donating old clothes. With direct donations I imagine it's quite easy to ... well maybe not forget that it is charity, but not be bothered by it, and it doesn't damage their economy, and it's sure not to be spent on useless things since they can decide themselves what they need most, and it's documented that most of it is in fact used for very essential things. ... still it won't help us at all to avoid global collapse. So I'm sure it's better than keeping it, but it might be much worse than other causes. I might retract that donation and give it to the second thing I linked instead, if I could (which of course I can't).

[silverspawn]

Assume Peter has 100 Euros in his bank account that he's not using.  Should you steal that money and give it to the poor, according to your moral system?

Well, if you have a button that does this then yes. If you have to plan and execute a criminal act then I don't think that's worth it.

If you do this on a large, Robin Hood like scale... I'd probably applaud that. If you do it responsibly.

[ashersky]

Assume Peter has 100 Euros in his bank account that he's not using.  Should you steal that money and give it to the poor, according to your moral system?

Well, if you have a button that does this then yes. If you have to plan and execute a criminal act then I don't think that's worth it.

If you do this on a large, Robin Hood like scale... I'd probably applaud that. If you do it responsibly.

I assume you have zero money in your bank or wallet, then.  If it applies to Peter, it should apply to you, right?

[silverspawn]

Didn't I just say that I need to figure out what is the best charity before I donate the rest?

[silverspawn]

(Also Peter makes 30k a month)

[pingpongsam]

And if the answer is "yes", then that should make you think, because flipping this switch has the same effect as pressing the second button, which we already agreed is evil.

I disagree with this assertion. Scenario 1 requires one party and to experience an absolute negative and the other an absolute positive. You ignore the option to press neither button when you move to scenario 2.

If I stop giving you money it is not the same as if I start taking your money.

[ashersky]

Didn't I just say that I need to figure out what is the best charity before I donate the rest?

What's the maximum one is allowed to earn before thievery is allowed?

[silverspawn]

Didn't I just say that I need to figure out what is the best charity before I donate the rest?

What's the maximum one is allowed to earn before thievery is allowed?

You are trying to get me to say controversial stuff because you don't like my arguments and want me to look bad in this discussion. Thievery is never allowed. What is allowed depends on laws. I'm not making laws. If you want to ask at which point I would think favorably about thievery, then I don't think I want to give you an exact answer. Obviously a line has to exist.

[ashersky]

Didn't I just say that I need to figure out what is the best charity before I donate the rest?

What's the maximum one is allowed to earn before thievery is allowed?

You are trying to get me to say controversial stuff because you don't like my arguments and want me to look bad in this discussion. Thievery is never allowed. What is allowed depends on laws. I'm not making laws. If you want to ask at which point I would think favorably about thievery, then I don't think I want to give you an exact answer. Obviously a line has to exist.

You think your answer would be controversial?

Okay, at what level of income do you think it should be legally allowed to have your money taken away unilaterally and without consent to be given to those who have less than you?

Does that wording work better for you?  It's your plan, man.

[silverspawn]

Didn't I just say that I need to figure out what is the best charity before I donate the rest?

What's the maximum one is allowed to earn before thievery is allowed?

You are trying to get me to say controversial stuff because you don't like my arguments and want me to look bad in this discussion. Thievery is never allowed. What is allowed depends on laws. I'm not making laws. If you want to ask at which point I would think favorably about thievery, then I don't think I want to give you an exact answer. Obviously a line has to exist.

You think your answer would be controversial?

Okay, at what level of income do you think it should be legally allowed to have your money taken away unilaterally and without consent to be given to those who have less than you?

Does that wording work better for you?  It's your plan, man.

What "plan"? I never said anything about a plan to take away anyone's money which goes beyond pirating media. You are asking me hypotheticals. Which is fine, I did the same (although you didn't bother to respond to any), but don't invent things that aren't there.

It should never be legally allowed. That's a bad idea. If you want the state to do something, raise taxes and commit a large budget to fighting climate change. Something being moral does not imply that it should also be legal.

[Witherweaver]

Is this conversation because people need exercise in eye rolling?

[Mic Qsenoch]

Is this conversation because people need exercise in eye rolling?

Your eyes are still in their sockets?

[Seprix]

Only outcomes matter? The ends do not always justify the means. That's morality 101.

That's what I've been told numerous times throughout my life and every time I just kept thinking IT'S NOT TRUE! IT'S OBVIOUSLY NOT TRUE! IT MAKES ON SENSE! YOU AREN'T EVEN THINKING! ARGH!

Do you know what's even worse? No principles at all. Going in with "the ends justify the means" mindset is a disaster waiting to happen. Suppose your mother slaps you, and then tells you to stop hitting your brother. Massive hypocrite, right? And yet, the ends justify the means there. You'll stop. But man, great example from the mom.

Suppose you steal millions of dollars from someone who earned all of his millions legitimately. You donate it all to charity. Are you going to say then that stealing all of that money is right, simply because all of it went to charity? You must know on some superficial level that stealing is wrong. Again, this is morality 101.

Just because it is hard to implement some principled moralities does not make them wrong, and does not make no principles right.

[Witherweaver]

Since we need a change of pace,

http://imgur.com/gallery/K81U7

http://joancornella.net/

[Seprix]

Since we need a change of pace,

http://imgur.com/gallery/K81U7

http://joancornella.net/

I do very much enjoy his work.  I'll move the topic to RSP.

[LaLight]

Since we need a change of pace,

http://imgur.com/gallery/K81U7

http://joancornella.net/

I have an album with all his works apparently. He's good, but sometimes too black-ish

[Witherweaver]

Since we need a change of pace,

http://imgur.com/gallery/K81U7

http://joancornella.net/

I have an album with all his works apparently. He's good, but sometimes too black-ish

What do you mean black?  They're always smiling!

[LaLight]

Since we need a change of pace,

http://imgur.com/gallery/K81U7

http://joancornella.net/

I have an album with all his works apparently. He's good, but sometimes too black-ish

What do you mean black?  They're always smiling!

that's why it is a black humour

[Chris is me]

Only outcomes matter? The ends do not always justify the means. That's morality 101.

That's what I've been told numerous times throughout my life and every time I just kept thinking IT'S NOT TRUE! IT'S OBVIOUSLY NOT TRUE! IT MAKES ON SENSE! YOU AREN'T EVEN THINKING! ARGH!

Do you know what's even worse? No principles at all. Going in with "the ends justify the means" mindset is a disaster waiting to happen. Suppose your mother slaps you, and then tells you to stop hitting your brother. Massive hypocrite, right? And yet, the ends justify the means there. You'll stop. But man, great example from the mom.

Suppose you steal millions of dollars from someone who earned all of his millions legitimately. You donate it all to charity. Are you going to say then that stealing all of that money is right, simply because all of it went to charity? You must know on some superficial level that stealing is wrong. Again, this is morality 101.

Just because it is hard to implement some principled moralities does not make them wrong, and does not make no principles right.

I'm not sure I agree with a purely utilitarian "only outcomes matter" result,  but your counter example is a really bad one. The outcome is not solely that the charity has money; the outcome also encompasses the dude losing the money. It would be very easy for someone who only thinks outcomes are the sole determiner of morality to discount your example as having too much of a negative outcome (theft) to justify the positive outcome.

[silverspawn]

I think the second example is fine. The millionaire's moral importance is insignificant compared to the amount of good that is done with donating such a large amount of money.

If you don't want to do something, always ask yourself if you would do the reverse. Would you kill 100 people (because that amount can easily be saved by a million dollars, let alone several million) in order to prevent the thievery from one guy? If not and you don't see how that makes the entire system fallible, I have to dig deeper to get to you.

So yes. That is absolutely a moral thing to do. It is not remotely close.

Your first example doesn't check out for a number of different reasons.

[Kirian]

Yes I can.  I cannot force you to acknowledge my ownership, but I also can't force you to acknowledge my ownership of my wallet, or my computer.  Just because it is easier to steal the former doesn't make it any less of a theft.

No you can't. Any abstract idea can be represented by a number and numbers just inherently exist.

Both of your premises are false, though I assume your first premise is intended to read "All abstract ideas that could be offered for sale/consumption can be represented by numbers," which is possibly true but I think still stretching reality.  I mean, good luck converting, say, Maria Abramovic's art into numbers.

Numbers may inherently exist, but specific numbers do not.  A 3-minute piece of music on CD is about 3 MB, or 24 Mbit.  (But sheet music!  No, lots of music can't be properly notated at sheet music.)  The number of numbers that long is 2^24000000.  The creator picked one of those numbers, and it wasn't at random.  Sure, you can't own the number, but you sure as hell can own the algorithm for determining the number.

Separately, I have a ton of ideas which I own solely because they are still in my head.  Good luck getting those for free.

and something that you can infinitely duplicate shouldn't have any value.

Says who?  Who let you dictate societal norms and laws?  Ideas and words have value.

The law of supply and demand.

This may come as a shock, but the law of supply and demand is not the end of economics or of society.

I would pay for the time they spend working on the game, but most game developers choose to do that for free instead.

No they don't.  Most game developers get paid in some fashion.  They require food and shelter just like you do.

The people who work for a company that develops games might get paid for their time by the company, but it's super rare for the company to get paid for that by the customers. Instead, the company gets paid for merchandise (e.g. game DVD ROMs) which is also understandable because the physical merch does have value too, and digital copies of the game, which is ridiculous.

Tell that to Notch.  Or one of the hundreds of game designers out there for whom the company is (or was) synonymous with the designer(s).

It's worth noting that you can legally download my band's music for free and you can create whatever derivative works you want as long as those derivative works are released under the same license. While I want to do this just out of principle as well, I also think that it's the best strategy if we want to succeed as professional musicians because having people listen to our music for free is vastly preferable to having people not listen to our music at all.

And that's admirable, great!  But not every musician/filmmaker/author should be forced to follow that model.

Mostly, intellectual property laws just serve to further benefit the record labels and artists who don't have any real financial issues to begin with, at the cost of artists who are just starting out.

Again, tell that to independent authors/musicians/filmmakers/artists who rely on intellectual property protections.

[eHalcyon]

Frankly, though, I do think that everytime you want to spend money on a movie or a game which you could get for free, you should instead get it for free and donate the same amount here or here.

Do you do this?

I've spent very little money on things I could get for free for several years now, and donated not quite half of my savings to GiveWell's Give Directly a while ago, so in effect I think I've been largely doing it. I did not do the literal thing of making lots of small donations every time. I'm pretty sure I don't actually have enough money to pay for all music and movies I have on my hard drive even if you subtract the above amount.

Right now I'm trying to figure out whether it's crazy to donate to anything not related to climate change even if it's efficient. I mostly chose Give Directly to make sure charity doesn't have the humiliating factor. "I am wealthy, I will do this thing for you, you will be grateful." Or things like destroying local businesses by donating old clothes. With direct donations I imagine it's quite easy to ... well maybe not forget that it is charity, but not be bothered by it, and it doesn't damage their economy, and it's sure not to be spent on useless things since they can decide themselves what they need most, and it's documented that most of it is in fact used for very essential things. ... still it won't help us at all to avoid global collapse. So I'm sure it's better than keeping it, but it might be much worse than other causes. I might retract that donation and give it to the second thing I linked instead, if I could (which of course I can't).

But why don't you donate without illegally downloading all that stuff?

[Awaclus]

Tell that to Notch.  Or one of the hundreds of game designers out there for whom the company is (or was) synonymous with the designer(s).

Notch and the hundreds of game designers out there for whom the company is (or was) synonymous with the designer(s) ought to be paid for their time and their work, not for copies of numbers.

And that's admirable, great!  But not every musician/filmmaker/author should be forced to follow that model.

Why not? Every other profession is "forced" to follow that model (where they get paid for the work they actually do, not for copies of numbers), too.

Again, tell that to independent authors/musicians/filmmakers/artists who rely on intellectual property protections.

Been there, done that.

But why don't you donate without illegally downloading all that stuff?

According to utilitarianism, it's better to illegally download stuff that you enjoy than not having that stuff at all.

[Seprix]

But why don't you donate without illegally downloading all that stuff?

According to utilitarianism, it's better to illegally download stuff that you enjoy than not having that stuff at all.

Better for you, but better for the developer? Absolutely not. Utilitarianism is thinly veiled selfishness disguised as a legitimate ideology.

[Awaclus]

But why don't you donate without illegally downloading all that stuff?

According to utilitarianism, it's better to illegally download stuff that you enjoy than not having that stuff at all.

Better for you, but better for the developer? Absolutely not. Utilitarianism is thinly veiled selfishness disguised as a legitimate ideology.

Better for me and better for the developer.

[Seprix]

But why don't you donate without illegally downloading all that stuff?

According to utilitarianism, it's better to illegally download stuff that you enjoy than not having that stuff at all.

Better for you, but better for the developer? Absolutely not. Utilitarianism is thinly veiled selfishness disguised as a legitimate ideology.

Better for me and better for the developer.

Why is it better for the developer? I would rather nobody use my product than someone use it and not pay for it.

[Awaclus]

Why is it better for the developer? I would rather nobody use my product than someone use it and not pay for it.

Because if someone uses it and likes it, they're going to tell their friends about it.

[Chris is me]

But why don't you donate without illegally downloading all that stuff?

According to utilitarianism, it's better to illegally download stuff that you enjoy than not having that stuff at all.

Better for you, but better for the developer? Absolutely not. Utilitarianism is thinly veiled selfishness disguised as a legitimate ideology.

I think you're kind of intentionally cutting corners and implicitly assuming utilitarianism is saying things that it is not saying.

In the exact scenario described, he is right - if the only two options are illegal download or not acquire at all, it is obviously better for you to download it, and at worst it has no effect on the content creator. At best there is "exposure" which has nonzero value.

You implicitly assumed a third option existed (like it does in reality) of paying for the work conventionally, but that wasn't present in the argument. Utilitarianism is not saying illegal downloading is more ethical than paying for it, at all.

[Seprix]

Why is it better for the developer? I would rather nobody use my product than someone use it and not pay for it.

Because if someone uses it and likes it, they're going to tell their friends about it.

...Who will then also download it illegally.

But why don't you donate without illegally downloading all that stuff?

According to utilitarianism, it's better to illegally download stuff that you enjoy than not having that stuff at all.

Better for you, but better for the developer? Absolutely not. Utilitarianism is thinly veiled selfishness disguised as a legitimate ideology.

I think you're kind of intentionally cutting corners and implicitly assuming utilitarianism is saying things that it is not saying.

In the exact scenario described, he is right - if the only two options are illegal download or not acquire at all, it is obviously better for you to download it, and at worst it has no effect on the content creator. At best there is "exposure" which has nonzero value.

You implicitly assumed a third option existed (like it does in reality) of paying for the work conventionally, but that wasn't present in the argument. Utilitarianism is not saying illegal downloading is more ethical than paying for it, at all.

The argument itself was bogus, presenting only two options where more exist.

[Awaclus]

...Who will then also download it illegally.

And tell their friends about it. By the end of the day, you've gained a bunch of fans for free. That's super useful to a creator.

The argument itself was bogus, presenting only two options where more exist.

It was eHalcyon who was suggesting that silverspawn should neither pay for entertainment nor download it illegally, because reasons.

[silverspawn]

But why don't you donate without illegally downloading all that stuff?

According to utilitarianism, it's better to illegally download stuff that you enjoy than not having that stuff at all.

Better for you, but better for the developer? Absolutely not. Utilitarianism is thinly veiled selfishness disguised as a legitimate ideology.

I think you're kind of intentionally cutting corners and implicitly assuming utilitarianism is saying things that it is not saying.

In the exact scenario described, he is right - if the only two options are illegal download or not acquire at all, it is obviously better for you to download it, and at worst it has no effect on the content creator. At best there is "exposure" which has nonzero value.

You implicitly assumed a third option existed (like it does in reality) of paying for the work conventionally, but that wasn't present in the argument. Utilitarianism is not saying illegal downloading is more ethical than paying for it, at all.

But it does. It absolutely does. According to Utilitarianism, it is absolutely better to give the same amount to a charity. How can you dispute that?

[Seprix]

...Who will then also download it illegally.

And tell their friends about it. By the end of the day, you've gained a bunch of fans for free. That's super useful to a creator.

It can be useful, but it is still thievery. And at the end of the day, if everyone is a utilitarian who thinks the way that you do, why does anybody have to pay for anything? Your very luxury of not paying for content is supported by thousands upon thousands who do end up paying for it. If nobody pays for it, there will be no product. If this is the case, why skirt around the rules and mooch off of someone else's hard work?

The argument itself was bogus, presenting only two options where more exist.

It was eHalcyon who was suggesting that silverspawn should neither pay for entertainment nor download it illegally, because reasons.

True. It is obvious that handling with this concept in theory is going to be tricky, because the real world is usually more complicated than theoretical land.

[eHalcyon]

...Who will then also download it illegally.

And tell their friends about it. By the end of the day, you've gained a bunch of fans for free. That's super useful to a creator.

It can be useful, but it is still thievery. And at the end of the day, if everyone is a utilitarian who thinks the way that you do, why does anybody have to pay for anything? Your very luxury of not paying for content is supported by thousands upon thousands who do end up paying for it. If nobody pays for it, there will be no product. If this is the case, why skirt around the rules and mooch off of someone else's hard work?

The argument itself was bogus, presenting only two options where more exist.

It was eHalcyon who was suggesting that silverspawn should neither pay for entertainment nor download it illegally, because reasons.

True. It is obvious that handling with this concept in theory is going to be tricky, because the real world is usually more complicated than theoretical land.

I was waiting for an answer so I could elaborate with basically what you have here. I don't think a system works if it breaks down upon everyone following it. silverspawn already said that thievery should be illegal, so I'm wondering how he justifies it for himself. There's no reason for it to be tied to the donations. Doing a good deed doesn't give you a license to do a bad deed after.

[silverspawn]

But why don't you donate without illegally downloading all that stuff?

I'm with Awaclus on this. There is virtually no reason to do this. Consuming a piece of media doesn't hurt the developer at all.

And he's also right that it could help them. I'm watching through the Ghibli movies right now, and you've probably seen me express how much I adore Spirited Away at places. I've already gotten one other person to watch a bunch of them, and will probably make others do it too because I don't want them to miss out. At some point someone could pay for them.

But even in the worst case where that never happens and Ghibli doesn't in any way benefit from me, it is still only as bad as it'd be if I hadn't watched any of their movies in the first place. So yeah. Advertisement and stuff.

[silverspawn]

I was waiting for an answer so I could elaborate with basically what you have here. I don't think a system works if it breaks down upon everyone following it.

"It wouldn't work if everyone did it!" is a non-argument. You can say this about virtually every career choice. If everyone went for the same career choice you did, the world wouldn't work.

The question is would it be good if more people did it, and the answer is an unambiguous yes. If, at some point, this is no longer true, then I'd reassess the situation.

[Seprix]

I was waiting for an answer so I could elaborate with basically what you have here. I don't think a system works if it breaks down upon everyone following it.

"It wouldn't work if everyone did it!" is a non-argument. You can say this about virtually every career choice. If everyone went for the same career choice you did, the world wouldn't work.

I'm not sure you're refuting what he is saying. I don't think either of you are talking about the same thing.

[silverspawn]

I think it does. He said a system doesn't work if it wouldn't work if everyone did it. I said that it makes no difference what would happen if everyone followed it. The system is working. Artists are a bit worse off and much poorer people a bit better with what I'm doing, which is a net positive. That has to be what "work" means in this context.

[Seprix]

I think it does. He said a system doesn't work if it wouldn't work if everyone did it. I said that it makes no difference what would happen if everyone followed it. The system is working. Artists are a bit worse off and much poorer people a bit better with what I'm doing, which is a net positive.

What if everyone paid for things instead? How would the system break down then?

[silverspawn]

when have I said that that would be a bad thing?

[Awaclus]

If nobody pays for it, there will be no product.

That's how it would work if all creators did what I'm suggesting they should do (i.e. crowdfunding every project and not doing the project if they don't get paid enough money for it to be worth their time). The way most creators do it now, the creators create the product for free and then if nobody pays for the product (regardless of whether or not they acquired it through other means), they just spent a lot of time and got nothing in return but the product definitely exists.

if everyone is a utilitarian who thinks the way that you do, why does anybody have to pay for anything?

I don't think there exists a utilitarian who thins the way that I do. I'm not a utilitarian, I'm an ethical egoist (which is why I download stuff for free and then don't donate to charities outside of special occasions when I happen to feel like donating money either to a creator I like or a charity I like). People have to pay for certain stuff that has value (like services and physical items) because that stuff is limited and not freely available to everyone.

[Seprix]

when have I said that that would be a bad thing?

When you said that a system doesn't work when everyone follows it. See what I mean when I thought that you and eHalcyon were talking past each other? I may be making the same mistake, because that is an obvious refutation. It's way too easy, and cannot be what you are arguing.

If nobody pays for it, there will be no product.

That's how it would work if all creators did what I'm suggesting they should do (i.e. crowdfunding every project and not doing the project if they don't get paid enough money for it to be worth their time). The way most creators do it now, the creators create the product for free and then if nobody pays for the product (regardless of whether or not they acquired it through other means), they just spent a lot of time and got nothing in return but the product definitely exists.

It would be cool to have everything crowdfunded. I wouldn't disagree with that. It couldn't work with everything, but I don't hate crowdfunding as an idea.

[silverspawn]

when have I said that that would be a bad thing?

When you said that a system doesn't work when everyone follows it.

I think I was talking about my "system." If everyone refused to pay for media, that might be a problem.

Or it might be a good thing, because movies can still fund themselves through theaters and if art gets generally harder to make we'd have less of it and probably more of it would be passion projects. Awaclus' album would still have been made. For anime specifically it'd be worst, because anime makes most of its money through sales. But again, this is a theoretical discussion with no impact on the points I'm making.

[Awaclus]

It would be cool to have everything crowdfunded. I wouldn't disagree with that. It couldn't work with everything, but I don't hate crowdfunding as an idea.

Why couldn't it work with everything?

[pacovf]

You want to keep discussing this here.

[Kirian]

In the exact scenario described, he is right - if the only two options are illegal download or not acquire at all, it is obviously better for you to download it, and at worst it has no effect on the content creator. At best there is "exposure" which has nonzero value.

The reasonable response here is a reminder that people die of exposure.

And tell their friends about it. By the end of the day, you've gained a bunch of fans for free. That's super useful to a creator.

But unsurprisingly, not as useful as food.  Having a bunch of fans who will then also illegally download your stuff, and no one who pays even the smallest bit, means you starve.

[Seprix]

GOOD MORNING.

[McGarnacle]

GOOD MORNING.

Now lets act like that brief time the forum was down didn't drive us to the depths of insanity.

[Seprix]

GOOD MORNING.

Now lets act like that brief time the forum was down didn't drive us to the depths of insanity.

TELL ME MCGARNACLE, ARE YOU AFRAID?

[McGarnacle]

GOOD MORNING.

Now lets act like that brief time the forum was down didn't drive us to the depths of insanity.

TELL ME MCGARNACLE, ARE YOU AFRAID?

A little

[McGarnacle]

GOOD MORNING.

Now lets act like that brief time the forum was down didn't drive us to the depths of insanity.

TELL ME MCGARNACLE, ARE YOU AFRAID?

A little

Looks to me like someone had a rough night.

[Awaclus]

But unsurprisingly, not as useful as food.  Having a bunch of fans who will then also illegally download your stuff, and no one who pays even the smallest bit, means you starve.

Only if I work for free.

[heron]

Probably it's more moral to donate charity and not download the games illegally than it is to donate to charity and download the games illegally. So if you are trying to optimize your morality I guess you can't play games.

[Witherweaver]

It's probably also more moral to go join a charitable outreach program than to post on this board, so you should all probably go do that.

[Awaclus]

Probably it's more moral to donate charity and not download the games illegally than it is to donate to charity and download the games illegally. So if you are trying to optimize your morality I guess you can't play games.

How is it moral to not download games?

[Chris is me]

Probably it's more moral to donate charity and not download the games illegally than it is to donate to charity and download the games illegally. So if you are trying to optimize your morality I guess you can't play games.

How is it moral to not download games?

This isn't what he meant, but one argument would be that games are wasted labor that could be used to do good in other mediums.

[pingpongsam]

The spider weaves the web, the trick drains blood, the fly multiplies in defecation.

[Kirian]

Programming Fail of... well, the worst I've seen in a long time.

Program won't run on my computer.  Back and forth a bit with tech support, log files, etc.

Tech comes back with:  "Oh, I hadn't noticed the first time that your date format isn't normal.  Can you change it to mm/dd/yy?  That should fix the problem"

It seems to have fixed the problem.

What blithering idiot created a program that asks the client for the formatted date, rather than just using the system date?  Like... what the actual fuck??

(I use dd MMM yyyy for my dates, like most scientists do.  One could argue that yyyy-mm-dd is better though.  American date notation sucks giant baboon balls.)

[silverspawn]

I agree with the last part. my date notation in the forum is YYYY/MM/dd - hh:mm:ss. Also agree with the first part

[Kuildeous]

Using a format-agnostic system date does seem to make the most sense.

I do prefer using YYYYMMDD for my naming conventions. The biggest advantage is that if I'm sorting by name, it sorts chronologically.

But the worst date offender I've seen was where I chose to sort by date and was appalled that they weren't sorted chronologically. I had to look carefully to figure out why sorting by date didn't work. Turned out it sorted the months alphabetically:
April
August
December
February
January
July
June
March
May
November
October
September

I raged so hard that day.

[sudgy]

So, this is very random, and I don't know if anybody will do this, but here goes.  Does somebody want to be amazing and do some pixel art for me?  Here's some crappy concept art I just made for something:



It's a walking pancake with a white tie.  Don't ask.  Anyway, I want you to make it look way nicer, and put it in this format.  With all the different steps and everything.  Shouldn't be too hard, right?

[Seprix]

So, this is very random, and I don't know if anybody will do this, but here goes.  Does somebody want to be amazing and do some pixel art for me?  Here's some crappy concept art I just made for something:



It's a walking pancake with a white tie.  Don't ask.  Anyway, I want you to make it look way nicer, and put it in this format.  With all the different steps and everything.  Shouldn't be too hard, right?

I can make a one bit pixel image. 

[Awaclus]

I can make a one bit pixel image. 

I can make a 24-bit pixel image.

[silverspawn]

I think I just suffered a ~1/128 chance bad luck based on pokémon genders. Either that or there's something wrong with the game. But when I saved the emulator state and tried again it was right for the first time, so I doubt it.

Let's see if it rises higher. Not sure if it actually was 7 tries. I didn't count. But something like that.

edit. eh, I'm an idiot. It doesn't have 50/50% probabilities of male/female. Again. I didn't check because I was sure it would.
edit2: I think I am past 11 12 16 or so I GOT IT tries. Clearly the universe has conspired against me. But I WILL GET this female bulbasaur 

[Tables]

Yeah all starters IIRC have a 7/8 chance to be male.

[Seprix]

Yeah all starters IIRC have a 7/8 chance to be male.

Why is it like that? Almost all the other Pokemon have 50/50% gender rates.

[Chris is me]

Yeah all starters IIRC have a 7/8 chance to be male.

Why is it like that? Almost all the other Pokemon have 50/50% gender rates.

Makes it harder to breed starters until you get access to Ditto, so it makes them a bit more exclusive. So flavor reasons for casuals, mostly.

[Lekkit]

Yeah all starters IIRC have a 7/8 chance to be male.

Why is it like that? Almost all the other Pokemon have 50/50% gender rates.

There are a lot of monsters with higher chance of being male. Only a handful has higher chance to be female.

[eHalcyon]

Yeah all starters IIRC have a 7/8 chance to be male.

Why is it like that? Almost all the other Pokemon have 50/50% gender rates.

There are a lot of monsters with higher chance of being male. Only a handful has higher chance to be female.

More than a handful, but yeah there are more lines that tend toward male.  As Chris noted, the reason is to make them harder to breed, and there's a lot of them because all starter and fossil lines 7:1 for males.  There are also some Pokemon that are all male or all female.  Lists here.

[McGarnacle]

Man, I know why they call this Random Stuff Part III!

[Kuildeous]

Man, I know why they call this Random Stuff Part III!

Because Part II got too fat and unwieldy?

[silverspawn]

Update: my now Venusaur died at lvl 46 to a critical hit - selfdestruct

I'd be okay with that since it means I now need to be more creative in making my team but the two new ones of my team also died. All I have left is my Alakazam, which just seems to one-hit virtually everything.

[schadd]

Update: my now Venusaur died at lvl 46 to a critical hit - selfdestruct

I'd be okay with that since it means I now need to be more creative in making my team but the two new ones of my team also died. All I have left is my Alakazam, which just seems to one-hit virtually everything.

are you nuzzlocking?

[silverspawn]

something similar. pokémon die if they faint and have to be released, only female pokémon can fight, only male pokémon can be kept permanently in box, no running from fights, if the whole group dies the game is over, no loading.

[Witherweaver]

I just spent three to four hours trying to track down what I thought was a bug that may actually just be an artifact of how our code is set up.  This is where a real programmer would say it's a feature, right?

[sudgy]

I just spent three to four hours trying to track down what I thought was a bug that may actually just be an artifact of how our code is set up.  This is where a real programmer would say it's a feature, right?

I don't want to tell you how many times I've spent ages tracking down a bug in my own code that turned out to be an actual legitimate forgotten feature...

[schadd]

I just spent three to four hours trying to track down what I thought was a bug that may actually just be an artifact of how our code is set up.  This is where a real programmer would say it's a feature, right?

grumble grumble no man's sky grumble

[Seprix]

Went on my first date 4 days ago. It was awesome. She was really cool.

And then she completely cut off contact. I have not heard from her again since. I would like to think that I didn't do anything off-putting, but I guess I just can't be sure. It is me, after all. I really cannot think of anything I did in retrospect. Oh well, I guess. Better luck next time and all. It just ticks me off she doesn't even send something back saying she won't continue. Like, at least have the courtesy, right? Is that a socially acceptable thing to do? I wouldn't know, but it seems like the right thing to do.

[pacovf]

It doesn't have to be something you do, sometimes you're simply not what they are looking for, and some people are looking for really specific arbitrary stuff. In any case completely cutting off contact is kinda rude so eh no big loss.

On the other hand, yay on your first date! My "first" date wasn't even an actual "date", so that's something you've got on me.

PPE: wrote this before seeing your edit. Best thing you can do is to stop thinking about it (I know, easier said than done). You rarely get a direct confirmation that they are not interested.

[Roadrunner7671]

Seprix seems like a pretty cool guy over the Internet. That sucks though  I'll still assume you're cool IRL

Did you get her to play forum games? Or are you the type of guy who doesn't do that until the third date?

[Seprix]

Seprix seems like a pretty cool guy over the Internet. That sucks though  I'll still assume you're cool IRL

Did you get her to play forum games? Or are you the type of guy who doesn't do that until the third date?

She knew about Dominion. I got really excited, although I didn't go off on a tangent or anything. It doesn't really matter if people I date like Dominion or not, but it was cool to have that extra connection going on there.

Anyways, yeah. I've just about forgot about it now.

If one date decided how cool anyone was, the entire male population would instantly fail. Except Tom Hiddleston.

[Witherweaver]

Sometimes people get busy, too.  Other things come up in life.

Sometimes I just want to stay home and watch TV and I stop talking to people.

[Seprix]

Sometimes people get busy, too.  Other things come up in life.

Sometimes I just want to stay home and watch TV and I stop talking to people.

True. Anyways, if she pops up again, she pops up. I'm done worrying about it. I have better things to do.

Like worry about a disaster of a film shoot I am participating in tomorrow.

No, seriously. I'll have a lot to bitch about tomorrow. I hope I don't, but it's not looking good at all.

[pacovf]

Except Tom Hiddleston.

I mean Tom is nice and everything but seriously



Look at those blue eyes and melt. Not even sorry about the ridiculously large size of the pic.

[Seprix]

In other news, if I die in the next couple of days, it is because ashersky got jealous and killed me over this awesome new book I found.



I've always wanted to read it, and now I can!

[Witherweaver]

Dune is better than girls.

[Seprix]

Dune is better than girls.

[Roadrunner7671]

In other news, if I die in the next couple of days, it is because ashersky got jealous and killed me over this awesome new book I found.



I've always wanted to read it, and now I can!

Dude where's your neck?

[Kirian]

In other news, if I die in the next couple of days, it is because ashersky got jealous and killed me over this awesome new book I found.

Ashersky does know he can go to the bookstore or library and read it himself too, right?  Dune isn't a rare commodity like spice melange.

[Seprix]

In other news, if I die in the next couple of days, it is because ashersky got jealous and killed me over this awesome new book I found.

Ashersky does know he can go to the bookstore or library and read it himself too, right?  Dune isn't a rare commodity like spice melange.

Yes, but I have this fancy special edition book cover of Dune.

[ashersky]

In other news, if I die in the next couple of days, it is because ashersky got jealous and killed me over this awesome new book I found.

Ashersky does know he can go to the bookstore or library and read it himself too, right?  Dune isn't a rare commodity like spice melange.

Yes, but I have this fancy special edition book cover of Dune.

Is that the one that just came out?

I have a 1st* Edition.

[ashersky]

It's the Barnes & Nobles deluxe edition: https://www.amazon.com/Dune-Hardcover-Frank-Herbert/dp/0425266540/

[Seprix]

It's the Barnes & Nobles deluxe edition: https://www.amazon.com/Dune-Hardcover-Frank-Herbert/dp/0425266540/

Well, yeah. But it's still cool looking!

[ashersky]

It's the Barnes & Nobles deluxe edition: https://www.amazon.com/Dune-Hardcover-Frank-Herbert/dp/0425266540/

Well, yeah. But it's still cool looking!

It is, and I'm glad you'll be reading it!

[Witherweaver]

They should make a bathing suit for women where the straps fall along tan curves, so that tan lines are actual tan lines.

[Seprix]

[pingpongsam]

They should make a bathing suit for women where the straps fall along tan curves, so that tan lines are actual tan lines.

I didn't follow this one in the least.

[Awaclus]

They should make a bathing suit for women where the straps fall along tan curves, so that tan lines are actual tan lines.

I didn't follow this one in the least.

This is a tan curve:



Dunno why there's a shocked ascii face in there though.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Ok. So I finally decided to bite the bullet and I'm picking up a (regular) new 3ds today, the Super Mario bundle one.

If I could only get like...3 games to start, what are the best ones?

[eHalcyon]

Ok. So I finally decided to bite the bullet and I'm picking up a (regular) new 3ds today, the Super Mario bundle one.

If I could only get like...3 games to start, what are the best ones?

Basically all I play on 3DS is Pokemon.

[Chris is me]

Ok. So I finally decided to bite the bullet and I'm picking up a (regular) new 3ds today, the Super Mario bundle one.

If I could only get like...3 games to start, what are the best ones?

3D Land is great but obviously that comes with it.

Smash 4, Mario Kart 7, Animal Crossing come to mind.

Some flavor of Pokémon is good too, those games have gotten way better.

[Seprix]

Smash 4 is king.

[Witherweaver]

They should make a bathing suit for women where the straps fall along tan curves, so that tan lines are actual tan lines.

I didn't follow this one in the least.

The first and third uses of 'tan' mean the function x -> tan(x), and the second use of 'tan' means the darkening of skin tone due to exposure to ultraviolet radiation.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Yeah pokemon X is for sure one.

I guess I should have also mentioned that I've never played any Nintendo game...ever.

[LastFootnote]

Super Mario 3D Land
Shovel Knight
Ace Attorney Trilogy (assuming you haven't played it on some other platform)

[singletee]

They should make a bathing suit for women where the straps fall along tan curves, so that tan lines are actual tan lines.

Hey babe, wanna make your tan lines into arctan lines?

[pingpongsam]

They should make a bathing suit for women where the straps fall along tan curves, so that tan lines are actual tan lines.

I didn't follow this one in the least.

The first and third uses of 'tan' mean the function x -> tan(x), and the second use of 'tan' means the darkening of skin tone due to exposure to ultraviolet radiation.

Okay, explaining the joke definitely made it funnier in that case. In fact, that is really funny, and smart, I like it.

[LostPhoenix]

Ok. So I finally decided to bite the bullet and I'm picking up a (regular) new 3ds today, the Super Mario bundle one.

If I could only get like...3 games to start, what are the best ones?

The Monster Hunter games are some of my favourites.

[pacovf]

Fire emblem

[silverspawn]

I think that in fire red, the top 4 use moves strategically while all other trainers use movies randomly. That's pretty mean. and it killed me :x

[Tables]

Ok. So I finally decided to bite the bullet and I'm picking up a (regular) new 3ds today, the Super Mario bundle one.

If I could only get like...3 games to start, what are the best ones?

My favourite 3DS games:

1) The Bravely games, Bravely Default: Where the Fairy Flies and Bravely Second: End Layer (JRPGs). Start with Bravely Default as Second is a direct sequel set in the same world and spoils the story of the first. There's a free demo available as well, and while it showcases the game reasonably well, it's VERY harsh to start with if you're not experienced with JRPGs or a quick learner as it has fairly minimal tutorials and is pretty tough from the start. But the main game is much more gentle and extremely fun. The story is great (for the first 5-6 chapters out of eight), the gameplay is fantastic (for the first 4 chapters and the last 2 chapters out of eight), and there's lots of resources online. I even have a really in depth mechanics guide for Bravely Second!

2) Fire Emblem Fates and Fire Emblem: Awakening (JRPGs). Awakening came out first but the two are both unrelated (pretty much). Awakening is a bit more... free and breakable if you want to, but can be really fun for the crazy things you can start doing. Fates is much more restrained and balanced with tighter gameplay and more interesting challenges. Fates is also two different games! Fates: Birthright is better for series beginners and is slightly easier with the more natural story progression. Fates: Conquest is more difficult (although both have difficulty options) and has more complex scenarios. If you get one and enjoy it you can download the other for a reduced price as well, plus the hidden third route of the game.

3) The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds (Action/Adventure). I mean I assume you know what Zelda is. This one is a bit more open world and based heavily on A Link to the Past. It's a little on the short side - I 100% completed it with no guide in 20 hours, but it's good fun regardless.

4) Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney Trilogy (Puzzle/text adventure). I guess you've heard of the series at least - you play as lawyer Phoenix Wright in wacky court cases, with often interlinking mystery and puzzles going on, trying to prove clients innocent. Trilogy contains all three of the first games for the price of a single game, so if you've never played a game in the series it's a fantastic starting point.

5) Kid Icarus: Uprising (Action). A bit of a quirky but fun action game, which takes place in two phases - there's an on rails shooter type section, and then a ground based adventure section. Both are great fun, and the game offers a decent story as well, with tons of humour. The controls take a bit of getting used to but work really well, and the game has a few nice features for balancing difficulty, risk/reward and tons of unlockables.

Honorable mentions:

Xenoblade Chronicles 3D is a 3DS rerelease of the best game ever, but sadly is N3DS only.

Hyrule Warriors Legends is a fun Warriors style combo/beat em up/whatever game based on Zelda, but it runs not too well on O3DS.

Pokemon X/Y and ORAS are... well they're pokemon. I enjoy my pokemon, it's a decent series, but man is it overrated. Still you probably know if you enjoy pokemon or not. I've heard ORAS are really good as far as pokemon goes.

(Edit: Those darn smilies. I got you this time.)

[LastFootnote]

Xenoblade Chronicles 3D is a 3DS rerelease of the best game ever, but sadly is N3DS only.

Got any tips for getting through Xenoblade Chronicles? I got to maybe the 4th or 5th area before completely losing interest. It's just such a slog, especially for a completionist.

[Tables]

Xenoblade Chronicles 3D is a 3DS rerelease of the best game ever, but sadly is N3DS only.

Got any tips for getting through Xenoblade Chronicles? I got to maybe the 4th or 5th area before completely losing interest. It's just such a slog, especially for a completionist.

Well you could start by not being a heretic

The game picks up a TON after the Ether Mines. That area is a little dull, but after that things get REALLY good REALLY quickly. You get a 4th party member who is offense based, meaning you can run a team of Shulk/Reyn/4th character and be actually aggressive and fast in combat rather than having Sharla slowing you down. On top of that the 5th and 6th characters come not that long after, meaning you can also start team building and customising.

Also after finishing this area, you stop going through the rather generic Mine area and start going through some of the most beautiful areas in the game - both for music and visuals. The story starts to pick up again from "go save idiot who got himself caught" to "Hey we actually have a mid term goal now and things are happening." So basically, just press through that area. It's easily the weakest part of the game, and it starts getting better and better after.

[schadd]

I think that in fire red, the top 4 use moves strategically while all other trainers use movies randomly. That's pretty mean. and it killed me :x

i think most of the games are like that. get excited for a modest amount of bonus stuff after the elite 4

[markusin]

For 3DS, uh, I liked Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon. It's a lot lighter than say a JRPG.

[Tables]

For 3DS, uh, I liked Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon. It's a lot lighter than say a JRPG.

Oh, yeah, I should have mentioned that one. I don't think that's one of the best 3DS games but you know, it's still really good. It was actually my first 3DS game so there's that.

[markusin]

For 3DS, uh, I liked Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon. It's a lot lighter than say a JRPG.

Oh, yeah, I should have mentioned that one. I don't think that's one of the best 3DS games but you know, it's still really good. It was actually my first 3DS game so there's that.

It was also my first 3DS game. Go figure.

[ConMan]

My preferences are a bit more offbeat in places, but I'll offer them in case all of the above doesn't excite you as much.

If you want to try a rhythm game, the 3DS is sadly a bit lacking, but Rhythm Thief is pretty good. If you dig back into the DS archives (sadly, none of which are on the eShop, I believe) then there are classics like Rhythm Heaven and Elite Beat Agents.

Also starting in the DS era is the Professor Layton series, which I've seen described as being like an opera, except instead of characters randomly bursting into song, they burst into puzzles. As in, you'll be looking for information about a missing portrait, and you'll tap on a character to ask them if they know anything, and they'll say "Why yes, I saw someone holding a parcel of about the right size just an hour ago. Speaking of parcels, that reminds me of a puzzle ...". The first trilogy was for the DS, the second was on the 3DS, and there's also a cross-over game with Phoenix Wright that I still haven't gotten around to playing.

If you want to try something more mature but in a similar vein, there's the Zero Escape trilogy. The original game, 999 (9 Hours, 9 Persons, 9 Doors), came out on the DS and I also haven't finished that so I can't comment much on it. The sequel, Virtue's Last Reward, has some really cool puzzles and a mind-screw of a story. The third part of the trilogy, Time Dilemma, came out recently and is apparently also really good.

[pedroluchini]

I just finished playing the first Phoenix Wright game. As someone who dislikes visual novels and Japanese storytelling in general... I still had a lot of fun!

(To clarify: I recommend it.)

[Tables]

If you want to try a rhythm game, the 3DS is sadly a bit lacking, but Rhythm Thief is pretty good. If you dig back into the DS archives (sadly, none of which are on the eShop, I believe) then there are classics like Rhythm Heaven and Elite Beat Agents.

I got Rhythm Thief as part of the Humble Bundle a few months back, and it's pretty alright. Definitely not worth it as a full price game, but it was fun for a good ~10 hours of gameplay and had a surprisingly decent (although quite ridiculous) story to it. Elite Beat Agents is fantastic as well, I've put a lot of time into that one.

[pingpongsam]

cat /sys/kernel/tegra_mpdecision/conf/boost_freqs
910000
910000
760000
620000

[Witherweaver]

Sometimes I'm not convinced anything more than two hours of the work day is worth it.

[Chris is me]

Sometimes I'm not convinced anything more than two hours of the work day is worth it.

I think the world would be so much of a better place if we all admitted to ourselves that 40 hours doesn't need to be standard for a salaried job and that many jobs would be better for everyone if they paid the same, had the same amount of work per week, but you only came in for 20 focused, no bullshit hours.

[Witherweaver]

Sometimes I'm not convinced anything more than two hours of the work day is worth it.

I think the world would be so much of a better place if we all admitted to ourselves that 40 hours doesn't need to be standard for a salaried job and that many jobs would be better for everyone if they paid the same, had the same amount of work per week, but you only came in for 20 focused, no bullshit hours.

I agree.  Every once and a while I'll have highly productive weeks, where I really am busy the full time, but mostly I just can't stay that focused and productive for eight hours x 5 days straight.

[Chris is me]

Sometimes I'm not convinced anything more than two hours of the work day is worth it.

I think the world would be so much of a better place if we all admitted to ourselves that 40 hours doesn't need to be standard for a salaried job and that many jobs would be better for everyone if they paid the same, had the same amount of work per week, but you only came in for 20 focused, no bullshit hours.

I agree.  Every once and a while I'll have highly productive weeks, where I really am busy the full time, but mostly I just can't stay that focused and productive for eight hours x 5 days straight.

And the system is built and tolerant for those lapses! It assumes that! And yet, it demands we all throw away our time in the name of parity and in resistance to change.

[Awaclus]

Sometimes I'm not convinced anything more than two hours of the work day is worth it.

I think the world would be so much of a better place if we all admitted to ourselves that 40 hours doesn't need to be standard for a salaried job and that many jobs would be better for everyone if they paid the same, had the same amount of work per week, but you only came in for 20 focused, no bullshit hours.

In addition, I think that people should be working less in general, to create jobs for more people while things are getting more and more automatized.

[XerxesPraelor]

Basic income all the way!

[Chris is me]

Basic income all the way!

A necessary but not sufficient solution to this problem. The greater acceptance and availability of "part time" work would need to come with this, or the 40-hour standard / rut will persist.

Someone else find a link for that "Your Lifestyle Has Already Been Designed" article.

[Seprix]

Basic income all the way!

A necessary but not sufficient solution to this problem. The greater acceptance and availability of "part time" work would need to come with this, or the 40-hour standard / rut will persist.

Someone else find a link for that "Your Lifestyle Has Already Been Designed" article.

I read a small snippet of it.


It is beautiful.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Basic income all the way!

A necessary but not sufficient solution to this problem. The greater acceptance and availability of "part time" work would need to come with this, or the 40-hour standard / rut will persist.

Someone else find a link for that "Your Lifestyle Has Already Been Designed" article.

This article made me cry.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Oh. And I also appreciate all of the great opinions everyone had on 3DS games.
I'm probably going broke now 

[Kirian]

Since no one actually linked it:

http://www.raptitude.com/2010/07/your-lifestyle-has-already-been-designed/

[pacovf]

Oh. And I also appreciate all of the great opinions everyone had on 3DS games.
I'm probably going broke now 

Yes, Fire Emblem is great. I guess I can also appreciate that other people posted opinions.

[markusin]

Since no one actually linked it:

http://www.raptitude.com/2010/07/your-lifestyle-has-already-been-designed/

I'd say, the time you saved me by linking this article fit into my tendency for quick gratification, resulting in me actually reading the article.

Good read.

[silverspawn]

It turns out the problem with runs where you have to stop playing once you die is that you have to stop playing once you die.

[Tables]

It turns out the problem with runs where you have to stop playing once you die is that you have to stop playing once you die.

This applies to both Ironman playthroughs and many Speedruns equally. The solution in both is also the same.

[silverspawn]

It turns out the problem with runs where you have to stop playing once you die is that you have to stop playing once you die.

This applies to both Ironman playthroughs and many Speedruns equally. The solution in both is also the same.

I'm all ears

[Lekkit]

Git gud.

[Tables]

It turns out the problem with runs where you have to stop playing once you die is that you have to stop playing once you die.

This applies to both Ironman playthroughs and many Speedruns equally. The solution in both is also the same.

I'm all ears

You try again

[Titandrake]

It turns out the problem with runs where you have to stop playing once you die is that you have to stop playing once you die.

This applies to both Ironman playthroughs and many Speedruns equally. The solution in both is also the same.

I'm all ears

You try again

This is why I prefer my roguelike / one-try-only games to be short.

[silverspawn]

I'll try again. Last loss was out of stupidity. I'll try not to be stupid this time.

[pacovf]

I'll try again. Last loss was out of stupidity. I'll try not to be stupid this time.

Famous last words of the roguelike addict.

[sudgy]

I'll try again. Last loss was out of stupidity. I'll try not to be stupid this time.

Famous last first words of the roguelike addict.

FTFY

[Tables]

It turns out the problem with runs where you have to stop playing once you die is that you have to stop playing once you die.

This applies to both Ironman playthroughs and many Speedruns equally. The solution in both is also the same.

I'm all ears

You try again

This is why I prefer my roguelike / one-try-only games to be short.

Personally I'm not a huge fan of this type of game, but I agree. I know some people try and play Fire Emblem this way, and well it certainly can be done, but it's far from how the games are designed to be played. A little bad RNG can end up with someone dead, and someone dead is very likely going to ruin your entire run.

[Kuildeous]

I'm so excited. I get to see Evil Dead: The Musical tomorrow for the first time 5 years. For the third time, we'll be in the splatter zone.

I really think this needs to be an ongoing Halloween tradition.

[schadd]

judy

[scott_pilgrim]

Ok. So I finally decided to bite the bullet and I'm picking up a (regular) new 3ds today, the Super Mario bundle one.

If I could only get like...3 games to start, what are the best ones?

I know I'm late to the party but I did not see anyone mention it yet, so I have to tell you that downloading Stretchmo might be the best decision you ever make.  Here are all of the reasons why:

1. It costs $10 for all the levels (at least it did when I got it).  If you don't want to commit $10, you can just buy one or two level packs (though if you end up buying all of them, it costs a little more to buy them each individually).  (If you are just going to buy individual level packs, I would recommend getting Mallo's Playtime Plaza (the introductory pack) and Papa Blox's NES Expo (the hardest pack), but really it's worth $10 to get all of them, because you get a level editor too which makes the game last forever, plus Perilous Peak if you beat all the other levels which has a few crazy hard levels in it.)

2. What is Stretchmo, is what you're probably wondering.  I'm glad you asked.  Stretchmo is a puzzle game, where you pull out pieces of a design (often times a picture of something) to climb to the top of it.  I'm sure that didn't make sense, so download the free demo and play it to see what I mean.  When I played the demo, I was a little skeptical of how much you could really do with that mechanic, but it turns out, a lot.  Enough that it's my second-most played 3DS game (Smash 4 being my first), with almost 90 hours logged.  A lot of the puzzles are very challenging, and require a surprising amount of outside-the-box thinking to solve, even though the mechanics are very simple and well-defined.

3. Let's go back and appreciate the fact that it cost $10 and has lasted me 90 hours so far.  That's $1 for every 9 hours, and it's still my go-to game when I'm bored on an airplane or sitting around with nothing better to do.  But even better, every single one of those hours was packed with loads of fun, there was never a point where I felt like the game was a grind.  I loved the Portal series but it cost more and didn't last nearly as long as Stretchmo.  I love Pokemon too, but even though those games can last a long time, they sometimes become grindy.  Stretchmo is cheap, lasts forever, and is always fun.

4. It's very easy to make your own levels.  This is where I think it really has Portal beat.  Portal 2 has a level editor, which is super cool, and even though the developers did a great job of making the level editor as clean and user-friendly as possible, the mechanics of Portal inherently make it very difficult to make levels.  Not so with Stretchmo!  If you can scribble, you can make Stretchmo levels.  There's all sorts of ways you can make Stretchmo levels.  You can absent-mindedly doodle patterns that look cool, you can draw pictures, you can copy pictures from another source and try to make levels out of them.  Making good levels takes a little work, but really compared to pretty much any other game with a level editor, I think Stretchmo's is the easiest to use.

5. I have a bunch of cool levels I've made personally that you can download if you somehow run out of things to do in Stretchmo.  I have quite a few levels that are extremely difficult (harder than any of the levels in game), and a lot of them use really unique clever tricks that aren't really used in any of the other levels in the game.  The best part is, probably about 60% of my levels are Pokemon-themed.  I made them by looking at the sprites for the little icons (when you're switching Pokemon in battle) and trying to copy them as accurately as possible, and then adding ladders and switches and stuff to them to make them into interesting puzzles.  The other ~40% of my puzzles are mostly just cool-looking patterns.

A few weeks ago a friend asked me what my five favorite single-player games were, and Stretchmo was really the only one that I could very confidently say had to be on the list.

A few other recommendations.

I'm a huge Pokemon fan, but more and more lately I've found that I really just like the idea of Pokemon more than the actual games or TV show.  I'm sure I'll still get Sun or Moon when those come out.  But I recommend the Mystery Dungeon series; in particular, Pokemon Super Mystery Dungeon (the most recent Mystery Dungeon game).  The Mystery Dungeon games have always had some major balancing issues, but those have been getting better and better and Super Mystery Dungeon is pretty much fine now balance-wise I think.  Here's what I like about the Mystery Dungeon games compared with the main series:

1. They feel a lot more immersive to me, which is the most important thing about Pokemon games (since, as I said before, I like the idea of Pokemon a lot more than the games themselves).

2. They have more interesting plots.

3. They usually feel less grindy, as there's no separate battle scene (it's like a roguelike, where you walk around and fight enemies as you run into them).

4. I generally think the battles are more interesting than the main series games, though they can still get repetitive.

5. The exploration is more fun because dungeons are randomly generated (though this probably has the opposite effect for a lot of people).

That being said, I never actually finished Super Mystery Dungeon (my interest in it kind of just faded eventually).  If you have any interest in Pokemon though it's probably the best Pokemon game to get right now (besides maybe Pokken Tournament, which is for the Wii U and also for a very different audience).

Rhythm Heaven: Megamix is another good game.  I have not played any of the other Rhythm Heaven games, but I like Megamix a lot, and wow I just checked and I have almost 70 hours on it.  It has a quirky sense of humor (it's developed by the same team that made Warioware) and lots of fun and very challenging mini-games.  I have a few complaints about it that I think could take it from being great to amazing, but it's overall very fun and entertaining.

Yoshi's New Island is pretty good.  It has an overall very cute and happy feel to it.  I'm not sure if you'd like it if you didn't already grow up loving Yoshi's Island.

Even though I'd probably say Smash 4 is my favorite 3DS game, it's probably nothing to write home about if you're not already into Smash Bros., fighting games, or Nintendo.  As a competitive fighting game, the main difference I think between Smash Bros and other fighting games is that Smash is much more positional, which I think makes it a much more interesting game.  But really the main reason most people get into Smash in the first place is because they like to see all their favorite Nintendo characters beating each other up in fun and hilarious ways.  So that's why I say you're less likely to have interest in it if you don't already have some experience with Nintendo.

Donkey Kong Country Returns 3DS...I never actually played that one, but I played the Wii version, and I think they're the same.  I'm a big fan of DKC games.  The new ones (DKC Returns and Tropical Freeze) are very difficult platformers, with absolutely gorgeous aesthetics (visuals and music; though I'm not sure how well that translates to the 3DS).  If you're going to get one platformer, I think this would be the one I recommend.

Contrary to popular opinion here, I don't like Fire Emblem.  At all.  I could rant about it, but it doesn't quite seem fair for me to judge Awakening and some of the newer games, because I haven't played them.  My experience with Fire Emblem games has been that almost everything in the game is designed to piss you off as much as possible, and make you feel like you have control over things when you're really just making totally meaningless decisions because you have no way of knowing what's coming.  I don't mean this to be insulting to people who like FE though, I'm just warning you that you may not have the experience that everyone else seems to have with them.  Most of my friends who have played FE love it, but a few feel the same way about it that I do, so I know I'm not the only one with that opinion.

That's all I can think of.  In summary:

I very highly recommend Stretchmo if you have any interest in puzzle games at all (it's cheap and will give you endless hours of fun)
I recommend Pokemon Super Mystery Dungeon as a more immersive alternative to the Pokemon main series games
I recommend Rhythm Heaven Megamix if you're just looking for something light and fun and you like or think you might like rhythm games
I recommend DKC Returns if you're looking for a good, challenging platformer
I recommend Yoshi's New Island if you're looking for a light, cheery platformer
Maybe hold off on Smash 4 unless you already have reason to think you'll want it right away
Be wary of Fire Emblem

[Ichimaru Gin]

Stretchmo is downloading right now 
And seriously, thanks for the in depth write up!

So far I own:

loz oot --been having an absolute blast as it's my first zelda game ever!

pokemon x --restarted once after I beat the third gym. I really don't know which pokemon are good or anything about team comp. It's a bit overwhelming having virtually zero knowledge of pokemon and then having 700+ pokemon and all the moves to learn about. I know you don't have to min/max for just going through the story, but I don't like playing suboptimally. So kinda feeling like I have learn more before I'll really get into it.

animal crossing -- <3

fantasy life--really fun. It's a nice casual one.

pokemon picross--just started playing today.

fire emblem awakening
mario kart 7
monster hunter 4u

are ones I'm saving until I beat some of the others.

Oh yeah, and my friend code is: 4098-7277-0569 if anyone wants to add me. I know there were a few threads floating around with friend codes...

[pacovf]

Dunno how your finances are, but if X/Y are overwhelming, Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire are remakes of the third Gen, so they have less things to worry about.

From your list, you seem to have looooooooots of free time :p Most of those are reeeeeeeeeeeally long.

[Seprix]

pokemon x --restarted once after I beat the third gym. I really don't know which pokemon are good or anything about team comp. It's a bit overwhelming having virtually zero knowledge of pokemon and then having 700+ pokemon and all the moves to learn about. I know you don't have to min/max for just going through the story, but I don't like playing suboptimally. So kinda feeling like I have learn more before I'll really get into it.

I can teach you all there is to know about Pokemon. I used to play it all of the time, and I was quite good at it too. Competitive player and all. I couldn't tell you the current metagame, but a quick google could fix that problem.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Dunno how your finances are, but if X/Y are overwhelming, Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire are remakes of the third Gen, so they have less things to worry about.

From your list, you seem to have looooooooots of free time :p Most of those are reeeeeeeeeeeally long.

Those might be a better fit to start with then.

Haha. Yeah I'm not playing them all at once, but I kinda like games that have a ton of playtime for how much they cost. I do have to limit myself with school and all.

[Ichimaru Gin]

pokemon x --restarted once after I beat the third gym. I really don't know which pokemon are good or anything about team comp. It's a bit overwhelming having virtually zero knowledge of pokemon and then having 700+ pokemon and all the moves to learn about. I know you don't have to min/max for just going through the story, but I don't like playing suboptimally. So kinda feeling like I have learn more before I'll really get into it.

I can teach you all there is to know about Pokemon. I used to play it all of the time, and I was quite good at it too. Competitive player and all. I couldn't tell you the current metagame, but a quick google could fix that problem.

Cool. Is x/y still the main pokemon thread here? Maybe we should have more!

[Seprix]

pokemon x --restarted once after I beat the third gym. I really don't know which pokemon are good or anything about team comp. It's a bit overwhelming having virtually zero knowledge of pokemon and then having 700+ pokemon and all the moves to learn about. I know you don't have to min/max for just going through the story, but I don't like playing suboptimally. So kinda feeling like I have learn more before I'll really get into it.

I can teach you all there is to know about Pokemon. I used to play it all of the time, and I was quite good at it too. Competitive player and all. I couldn't tell you the current metagame, but a quick google could fix that problem.

Cool. Is x/y still the main pokemon thread here? Maybe we should have more!

Dunno. I guess so.

[Roadrunner7671]

I'm learning about small businesses in school and we've been talking about the SBA and stuff but I have a question: Is there a site/hub for businesses that need advertising so that they can easily get in contact with advertising companies?

[Kirian]

Rolled 1d1000 : 381, total 381

[SpaceAnemone]

I'm learning about small businesses in school and we've been talking about the SBA and stuff but I have a question: Is there a site/hub for businesses that need advertising so that they can easily get in contact with advertising companies?

I'm pretty sure that you'd want advertising companies to do their own advertising to get clients... if they can't get that part right, they probably aren't going to work out very well :-P

[Witherweaver]

Rolled 1d2 : 2, total 2

[Witherweaver]

Lame, 1d1 automatically changes to 1d2.

[schadd]

Rolled 3d36 : 33, 14, 29, total 76

[schadd]

computer, could you kick up the, uh,

Rolled 4d3 : 1, 1, 1, 3, total 6
Rolled 3d3 : 2, 1, 3, total 6

[silverspawn]

Can I play too?

This dice roll may have been tampered with!
Rolled 1d2 : 2, total 2 This dice roll may have been tampered with!
Rolled 1d2 : 2, total 2 This dice roll may have been tampered with!
Rolled 1d2 : 2, total 2 This dice roll may have been tampered with!
'1dThis Dice Roll May have been Tampered With' is not a valid dice string! This dice roll may have been tampered with!
'1d-1' is not a valid dice string!

Apparently 0, 1 and 2 are all 2.

[J Reggie]

How do you do the dice thing?

[singletee]

How do you do the dice thing?

[roll]1d6[/roll]

[J Reggie]

How do you do the dice thing?

[roll]1d6[/roll]

Cool thanks!

Rolled 20d222 : 56, 169, 155, 68, 139, 205, 136, 131, 40, 40, 189, 196, 198, 75, 118, 64, 175, 22, 23, 217, total 2416

[sudgy]

Rolled 20d1000 : 422, 1000, 788, 897, 555, 987, 820, 750, 543, 283, 478, 949, 127, 716, 981, 683, 761, 267, 990, 185, total 13182

Rolled 20d1000 : 894, 666, 299, 771, 778, 499, 74, 130, 833, 571, 448, 517, 139, 188, 149, 939, 441, 945, 171, 449, total 9901

Rolled 20d1000 : 638, 697, 741, 938, 705, 677, 674, 347, 21, 398, 540, 470, 147, 579, 310, 24, 460, 566, 976, 626, total 10534

Rolled 20d1000 : 768, 755, 811, 350, 508, 551, 950, 659, 537, 684, 801, 806, 743, 451, 515, 399, 428, 237, 560, 303, total 11816

Rolled 20d1000 : 77, 249, 909, 226, 614, 418, 964, 478, 79, 310, 721, 486, 134, 646, 914, 983, 832, 28, 201, 810, total 10079

Darn it, you can't do any more than 20d1000...

[LastFootnote]

Rolled 3d6+2 : 1, 4, 6 + 2, total 13

[LastFootnote]

Nice, we can play forum Gauntlet of Fools on f.DS now.

[Watno]

Already happened: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5339.msg130781#msg130781

[Kuildeous]

Lame, 1d1 automatically changes to 1d2.

Simple Machines is aware of your dice-rolling shenanigans and wants nothing to do with them.

[silverspawn]

I don't understand why companies that produce hard-to-setup programs don't distribute at least 5 times as many resources into making them EASIER to set up and cut on features to make up for it. The chance that a user will even notice a random feature is about 1% as high as the chance that he will benefit from an easier installation process. Likewise, it's much more likely that he dislikes the product because he can't get it to run than because it doesn't have a random feature. It's so stupid.

[pacovf]

Depends on who their target audience is.

Also, making an easy-to-setup program is not easy.

Also

[silverspawn]

All true, but I'm convinced that it's underestimated by a lot on average, probably because it's not fun for anyone. The creative staff already has it running, working on that provides no intuitive sense of progress. Making new features feels exciting. Probably also a problem of traditional planing.

Just imagine how much additional work it would be to have 20% more people who try to run it succeed. Probably quite a lot. But 20% more total work? Not even close.

[Awaclus]

I have never tried to install any software that was too difficult to configure, considering what the basic functionality of the software was.

[pacovf]

Just imagine how much additional work it would be to have 20% more people who try to run it succeed. Probably quite a lot. But 20% more total work? Not even close.

I mean, I can think of countless reasons why this math here doesn't necessarily work, but since I don't know what program nor company we are talking about, I don't know how relevant they are.

[pingpongsam]

I have never tried to install any software that was too difficult to configure, considering what the basic functionality of the software was.

Been struggling with glintercept and OGLE lately. I'd say it falls in the minimal tweaking category and the likelihood of getting it right is very low. Also sourceforge links that are like 10 years old.

[silverspawn]

Just imagine how much additional work it would be to have 20% more people who try to run it succeed. Probably quite a lot. But 20% more total work? Not even close.

I mean, I can think of countless reasons why this math here doesn't necessarily work, but since I don't know what program nor company we are talking about, I don't know how relevant they are.

I know it doesn't work, I'm saying the disparity of the numbers is so large that once you attempt estimate them even just roughly, it becomes clear without having an accurate model.

[pacovf]

It depends on the number of people that want to try to use the program, their qualifications, their interest in the project, the willingness of the company to coordinate external work, to spend resources in maintaining the program for outsiders, the objectives of the company, their manpower, their business plan and internal organisation, etc. It's not as clear cut as you are presenting it, there are a lot of variables. But well, not knowing the specific program nor company, I could not possibly comment one way or another.

[pacovf]

loz oot --been having an absolute blast as it's my first zelda game ever!

The best thing of playing OoT is that now you will be able to listen to Gerudo Valley remixes (and Twinrova's theme, but I think that's more of a personal rather than universal preference).

[Seprix]

Ocarina of Time is vastly overrated. I've played Twilight Princess, and that is basically what OoT is, except OoT was worse (for being a predecessor, less ideas, mechanics, etc). It was an innovative game for its time, but come on, let's not kid ourselves, it's not that fantastic of a game today.

[Chris is me]

Ocarina of Time is vastly overrated. I've played Twilight Princess, and that is basically what OoT is, except OoT was worse (for being a predecessor, less ideas, mechanics, etc). It was an innovative game for its time, but come on, let's not kid ourselves, it's not that fantastic of a game today.

it's amazing how many of your opinions are just wrong

[Witherweaver]

A Link to the Past for the win.

[LastFootnote]

Ocarina of Time is vastly overrated. I've played Twilight Princess, and that is basically what OoT is, except OoT was worse (for being a predecessor, less ideas, mechanics, etc). It was an innovative game for its time, but come on, let's not kid ourselves, it's not that fantastic of a game today.

I think Ocarina of Time is better than Twilight Princess by a lot of metrics, but worse by some. They're both good games. It was fun replaying them both recently, on 3DS and WiiU respectively.

[silverspawn]

Twilight Princess sounds better to me, personally ~

[pacovf]

It's hard to compare OoT and TP, because I played them first at a very different point in my life. Overall, I think OoT has a more imaginative Hyrule, a memorable soundtrack, and a better story. TP has better mechanics and gameplay, although I am not a big fan of the light/dark World gimmick. They are still extremely similar games.

And, of course, OoT was extremely ground breaking back in the day, but that's not relevant when comparing their merits today.

Zelda snobs tend to say Majora's was the better game anyway.

And Windwaker is a perfect game in every way, of course, even in the ways it isn't.

[LastFootnote]

It's hard to compare OoT and TP, because I played them first at a very different point in my life. Overall, I think OoT has a more imaginative Hyrule, a memorable soundtrack, and a better story. TP has better mechanics and gameplay, although I am not a big fan of the light/dark World gimmick. They are still extremely similar games.

And, of course, OoT was extremely ground breaking back in the day, but that's not relevant when comparing their merits today.

Zelda snobs tend to say Majora's was the better game anyway.

And Windwaker is a perfect game in every way, of course, even in the ways it isn't.

Majora's Mask does definitely offer a less-traditional Zelda experience. Its uniqueness scores it quite a few points. I do wish it had more dungeons.

I tried to replay Wind Waker when the HD version came out. Good lord that game can be a slog. Too much sailing over empty ocean.

[pacovf]

Yeah, that and the sunk treasures were a bit eh. But again, refer to my previous statement about WW. All the other positives vastly outweight those two things. Plus, you can get the ballad of gales reasonably soon.

[Seprix]

Ocarina of Time is vastly overrated. I've played Twilight Princess, and that is basically what OoT is, except OoT was worse (for being a predecessor, less ideas, mechanics, etc). It was an innovative game for its time, but come on, let's not kid ourselves, it's not that fantastic of a game today.

it's amazing how many of your opinions are just wrong

Opinions can't be 'wrong'. It's not that I want to hate the game 'just because' it's hip to be a dissenter. Heck, Zelda games are awesome. I'd love to enjoy OoT. I didn't get any enjoyment from playing it. Perhaps that is simply from hearing how amazing it was from literally everyone on the planet.

[Seprix]

Ocarina of Time is vastly overrated. I've played Twilight Princess, and that is basically what OoT is, except OoT was worse (for being a predecessor, less ideas, mechanics, etc). It was an innovative game for its time, but come on, let's not kid ourselves, it's not that fantastic of a game today.

I think Ocarina of Time is better than Twilight Princess by a lot of metrics, but worse by some. They're both good games. It was fun replaying them both recently, on 3DS and WiiU respectively.

I bought OoT for the 3DS, and I was bored out of my mind playing it. Is that normal? Is it boring in the beginning?

btw, Link to the Past is my favorite in the series.

[LastFootnote]

Ocarina of Time is vastly overrated. I've played Twilight Princess, and that is basically what OoT is, except OoT was worse (for being a predecessor, less ideas, mechanics, etc). It was an innovative game for its time, but come on, let's not kid ourselves, it's not that fantastic of a game today.

I think Ocarina of Time is better than Twilight Princess by a lot of metrics, but worse by some. They're both good games. It was fun replaying them both recently, on 3DS and WiiU respectively.

I bought OoT for the 3DS, and I was bored out of my mind playing it. Is that normal? Is it boring in the beginning?

btw, Link to the Past is my favorite in the series.

Ocarina of Time is a little slow to start. Not nearly as slow as Twilight Princess, though. How far did you get?

[Awaclus]

Ocarina of Time is vastly overrated. I've played Twilight Princess, and that is basically what OoT is, except OoT was worse (for being a predecessor, less ideas, mechanics, etc). It was an innovative game for its time, but come on, let's not kid ourselves, it's not that fantastic of a game today.

it's amazing how many of your opinions are just wrong

Opinions can't be 'wrong'.

That's why it's so amazing.

[Seprix]

Ocarina of Time is vastly overrated. I've played Twilight Princess, and that is basically what OoT is, except OoT was worse (for being a predecessor, less ideas, mechanics, etc). It was an innovative game for its time, but come on, let's not kid ourselves, it's not that fantastic of a game today.

I think Ocarina of Time is better than Twilight Princess by a lot of metrics, but worse by some. They're both good games. It was fun replaying them both recently, on 3DS and WiiU respectively.

I bought OoT for the 3DS, and I was bored out of my mind playing it. Is that normal? Is it boring in the beginning?

btw, Link to the Past is my favorite in the series.

Ocarina of Time is a little slow to start. Not nearly as slow as Twilight Princess, though. How far did you get?

I think I got to the first boss, the thing in that cave. After that, I never had a chance to continue OoT due to personal reasons. This was like a year ago. I would continue playing if I could, but that was my initial impressions.

[J Reggie]

I think I got to the first boss, the thing in that cave. After that, I never had a chance to continue OoT due to personal reasons. This was like a year ago. I would continue playing if I could, but that was my initial impressions.

I was kind of idly clicking through recent posts and, not realizing this was the random stuff thread, thought "what the heck is he talking about getting to the first boss in dominion?".

[Seprix]

I think I got to the first boss, the thing in that cave. After that, I never had a chance to continue OoT due to personal reasons. This was like a year ago. I would continue playing if I could, but that was my initial impressions.

I was kind of idly clicking through recent posts and, not realizing this was the random stuff thread, thought "what the heck is he talking about getting to the first boss in dominion?".

[pedroluchini]

Majora's Mask is one of the best games I've ever played. It's short, sweet, and packed with optional content that fleshes out the world. Every playthrough reveals something new. I love games that cram lots of detail in a small area!

Also: Zora!Link has the best swimming controls in any 3D game. I understand that they changed it in the 3DS version, which fills me with sadness.

[singletee]

I think I got to the first boss, the thing in that cave. After that, I never had a chance to continue OoT due to personal reasons. This was like a year ago. I would continue playing if I could, but that was my initial impressions.

I was kind of idly clicking through recent posts and, not realizing this was the random stuff thread, thought "what the heck is he talking about getting to the first boss in dominion?".

Tutorial
Featured Card: Rats
Boss: Lord Bottington

Level 1: Hovel
Featured Card: Smithy
Boss: Your friend who has no idea what that bastard is doing and just buys random Actions

Level 2: Estate
Featured Card: Village
Boss: That guy who says Dominion is solved because Smithy-BM can't be beat

Level 3: Hamlet
Featured Card: Prince
Boss: William Shakespeare (Spoiler alert: Shakespeare is not very good at Dominion. Also, Hamlet dies.)

Level 4: Bustling Village
Featured Card: Settlers
Boss: LastFootnote

Level 5: Forum
Featured Card: Overlord
Boss: Seprix

Level 6: Throne Room
Featured Card: Throne Room
Boss: Marin

Level 7: Wharf
Featured Card: Wishing Well
Boss: Stef (bring your A game)

Level 8: King's Castle
Featured Card: Rats (again)
Boss: Donald X (he can make new rulings and create new cards at will)

Level ? ? ?: Secret Chamber (Only unlockable by beating the game on Expert difficulty, without losing a game, with your toes)
Featured Card: Scout
Boss: Roadrunner

Shuffle iT hire me to write campaigns

[Tables]

Level 6: Throne Room
Featured Card: Throne Room
Boss: Marin

Ah, I see we're STILL talking about Zelda after all.

[Lekkit]

Here's my opinion. The only Zelda game I've really enjoyed is The Adventure of Link.

[Kirian]

I have never played a Zelda game.

[Kuildeous]

I have never played a Zelda game.

It's pretty neat. Zelda can throw swords. As you progress, Zelda can start picking up and using bombs, boomerangs, and bows.

Zelda is a badass in combat.

Cue: Nerd rage

[ashersky]

I have never played a Zelda game.

It's pretty neat. Zelda can throw swords. As you progress, Zelda can start picking up and using bombs, boomerangs, and bows.

Zelda is a badass in combat.

Cue: Nerd rage

Let me explain, for f.ds meta meme cred.

Zelda isn't the main playable character.

[pingpongsam]

Am I the only one old enough to have watched the animated series when it was airing?

[silverspawn]

yes

[gkrieg13]

Am I the only one old enough to have watched the animated series when it was airing?

What is an animated series and what is "airing"?

[Roadrunner7671]

What's a good simile for Pearl Diver?

Not necessarily the card, it could be about actual pearl divers in real life.

[Kirian]

Am I the only one old enough to have watched the animated series when it was airing?

You mean during the "Super Mario Brothers Super Show?"

No, you are not.

Man, we would watch *any* bullshit they made into a cartoon when we were kids, wouldn't we?

[Kuildeous]

Am I the only one old enough to have watched the animated series when it was airing?

I would have been old enough, but I didn't watch it.

I did watch the Pac-Man cartoon. Kirian's right; they made crap on anything.

[pingpongsam]

Am I the only one old enough to have watched the animated series when it was airing?

You mean during the "Super Mario Brothers Super Show?"

No, you are not.

Man, we would watch *any* bullshit they made into a cartoon when we were kids, wouldn't we?

At least it was followed by Saved by the Bell which was pure awesome.

[ConMan]

For some reason, I can never remember seeing an episode of the Zelda cartoon, despite watching plenty of the SMBSS - I have plenty of memories of seeing the *previews* for the Zelda episodes and seeing the Mario cartoons, but not the Zelda episodes themselves.

Also, Oracle of Seasons/Ages.

[schadd]

Man, we would watch *any* bullshit they made into a cartoon when we were kids, wouldn't we?

this is not a quality unique to any generation. for example, probably more than half of games on steam would demonstrate this point

[pingpongsam]

I would say the 80's cartoons were the most egregious examples of using the cartoon format as an advertising platform towards kids. Not to say it doesn't happen today but it seems much less widespread and nowhere near as blatant.

Also, there's the availability and signal to noise ratios to consider. On steam, for example, there are still some extremely good games available. Also, just because crap is available doesn't mean it is selling. 80's cartoons were all that were available and there were a limited number of channels that aired them. The only cartoon centric channel we had then was Nickelodeon and even that wasn't available on regular broadcast TV until the latest 80's or maybe even early 90's.

While trends will certainly repeat across generations, Syndicated garbage cartoons were definitely a unique hallmark of Generation X; primarily due to the explosion of diverse content creators during this era.

All statements amero-centric.

[Kuildeous]

Do any other Excel gurus get to the point where you paste nearly everything with Alt+E, S, V to avoid messing up formats, conditional formats, and special formulas? Or is that just me?

[Lekkit]

I don't use Excel as much as I should. In fact I pretty much don't use it at all... So I guess no?

[Witherweaver]

I usually have to choose the "text only" paste option to prevent silly autoformatting. 

[eHalcyon]

Do any other Excel gurus get to the point where you paste nearly everything with Alt+E, S, V to avoid messing up formats, conditional formats, and special formulas? Or is that just me?

Please elaborate on these specific shortcuts, when they should be used, and when they should not.

[Kuildeous]

Do any other Excel gurus get to the point where you paste nearly everything with Alt+E, S, V to avoid messing up formats, conditional formats, and special formulas? Or is that just me?

Please elaborate on these specific shortcuts, when they should be used, and when they should not.

Specifically, it's pasting just the values without any formatting or borders.

In many cases, I have cells referencing other cells. And when I paste cells in the latter, it can sometimes break the references, or the formatting is completely hosed. This is because I use some wonky, elaborate, convoluted formulas and conditional formatting so that I no longer find myself trusting to just do a Ctrl+V.

Hell, a lot of times I'm copying formulas, and I just want the values. Someone who follows me better know his Excel, or he's probably going to be lost. Even I get lost looking at the formulas I constructed (often with the help of Google).

[assemble_me]

1000 posts guys, 1000 posts.

Total time logged in: 60 days, 9 hours and 6 minutes.

Among my friends 1000 is kind of a running joke, where it's the ultimate number, a synonym for some something very great or just infinity. That's also, why it's the number I chose for my license plate (in Germany, you usually have 1-2 and then a number of 1-4 digits). [although I will have that car only 5-6 more weeks]

Anyways, hooray 1000 posts.

[scott_pilgrim]

I just realized maybe Humpty Dumpty's species reproduces by having a great fall, and all the king's horses and all the king's men just weren't familiar with the Banach-Tarski theorem.

[schadd]

was at a speech tournament and two people independently decided that they would use evaluate the concept of staying true to oneself through the lens of 'wholesome memes' in the final round

[Seprix]

I just realized maybe Humpty Dumpty's species reproduces by having a great fall, and all the king's horses and all the king's men just weren't familiar with the Banach-Tarski theorem.

Your 0 respect just became a 1.

[Witherweaver]

I just realized maybe Humpty Dumpty's species reproduces by having a great fall, and all the king's horses and all the king's men just weren't familiar with the Banach-Tarski theorem.

It's still pretty complicated to put the spheres back together.  Also not really physically doable.  (Also relies on Axiom of Choice, right?)

[Seprix]

I just realized maybe Humpty Dumpty's species reproduces by having a great fall, and all the king's horses and all the king's men just weren't familiar with the Banach-Tarski theorem.

It's still pretty complicated to put the spheres back together.  Also not really physically doable.  (Also relies on Axiom of Choice, right?)

Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story.

[silverspawn]

What is the word for when you want to say that something doesn't describe how you approach a problem logically (as in, how do you structure it, what design choices do you make) but what Basic tools you use in order to solve it?

[Seprix]

What is the word for when you want to say that something doesn't describe how you approach a problem logically (as in, how do you structure it, what design choices do you make) but what Basic tools you use in order to solve it?

...what?

[silverspawn]

Well, imagine you're building a house. There is the methodical aspect of it, which is about how tall you make it, how you order your rooms, whether or not you include a giant labyrinth into the cellar to troll people, and then there is the XXXX aspect, which is about what kind of cement you use, and which kinds of machines.

I think there is a word but I can't remember it.

[Seprix]

Well, imagine you're building a house. There is the methodical aspect of it, which is about how tall you make it, how you order your rooms, whether or not you include a giant labyrinth into the cellar to troll people, and then there is the XXXX aspect, which is about what kind of cement you use, and which kinds of machines.

I think there is a word but I can't remember it.

Material. Capital.

[silverspawn]

Mabye I should have mentioned that it is in the context of parsing a binary file 

[Seprix]

Mabye I should have mentioned that it is in the context of parsing a binary file 

All these rules and restrictions!

[Roadrunner7671]

Pros and cons of rolling a D12 vs. 2D6?

[silverspawn]

Okay, I used strategical and methodical. That might have actually been what I was thinking of but couldn't remember.

[J Reggie]

What is that word for the look two people give each other when they each hope that the other will do something that they both want done but which neither of them wants to do?

[gkrieg13]

What is that word for the look two people give each other when they each hope that the other will do something that they both want done but which neither of them wants to do?

I'm pretty sure there is an economics term. I'll have to ask my wife

[schadd]

Pros and cons of rolling a D12 vs. 2D6?

2d6 is weighted to the center if you're adding them

[schadd]

also, 1d12 has the DLC that gives you access to 1™

[Awaclus]

Pros and cons of rolling a D12 vs. 2D6?

D12:
 - includes the numbers 1-12
 - all numbers are equally likely
 - requires only one die

2D6:
 - includes the numbers 2-12
 - 7 is six times as likely as 2 or 12 respectively
 - requires commonly available dice
 - you can look at the results of individual dice for cool effects (such as rolling again if you get doubles)

Basically, 2D6 is good when you want less randomness and 1D12 is good when you want more randomness.

[Lekkit]

Pros and cons of rolling a D12 vs. 2D6?

A D12 always has a 1/12 chance to land on any number. 2D6 more often land on 5-8. You can't roll 1 on 2D6. In general I prefer rolling 2D6 when I want a "better roll", but I know people who think differently.

[heron]

2d6 will roll 1/2 higher on average.

[Roadrunner7671]

So if you're trying to roll higher than a D4, which is better? What if you're trying to roll higher than a D10? Or D20?

[Kuildeous]

Pros and cons of rolling a D12 vs. 2D6?

A D12 always has a 1/12 chance to land on any number. 2D6 more often land on 5-8. You can't roll 1 on 2D6. In general I prefer rolling 2D6 when I want a "better roll", but I know people who think differently.

Well, the expected value of 2d6 is 7 while the expected value of 1d12 is 6.5, so you do get a better roll with 2d6, but that's really only going to show up over many, many rolls.

[Kuildeous]

So if you're trying to roll higher than a D4, which is better? What if you're trying to roll higher than a D10? Or D20?

I'm not fully understanding this question. Like, what would you roll to guarantee that you get a higher result than what you get with a d4?

If that's the question, then 5+ dice of anything will do better than a d4. This could be 5d2 or 5d1000. Both would strictly give you a number higher than what you get with a d4.

Do I understand correctly?

[Awaclus]

So if you're trying to roll higher than a D4, which is better? What if you're trying to roll higher than a D10? Or D20?

Isn't it just 2D6 every time? It rolls 7 on average, while 1D12 rolls only 6.5 on average. The weighting on 2D6 is also relevant against a D4 because the only losing numbers are super unlikely.

[Roadrunner7671]

So if you're trying to roll higher than a D4, which is better? What if you're trying to roll higher than a D10? Or D20?

I'm not fully understanding this question. Like, what would you roll to guarantee that you get a higher result than what you get with a d4?

If that's the question, then 5+ dice of anything will do better than a d4. This could be 5d2 or 5d1000. Both would strictly give you a number higher than what you get with a d4.

Do I understand correctly?

No, sorry.

If you roll a D4, which optiin (1d12 or 2d6) is more likely to beat the roll of the D4?

[Roadrunner7671]

So if you're trying to roll higher than a D4, which is better? What if you're trying to roll higher than a D10? Or D20?

Isn't it just 2D6 every time? It rolls 7 on average, while 1D12 rolls only 6.5 on average.

But you have a better chance of rolling a 12 (or 11, I think) with a D12, so doesn't that give you a better chance of beating a D20, since its average is 10?

[Awaclus]

So if you're trying to roll higher than a D4, which is better? What if you're trying to roll higher than a D10? Or D20?

Isn't it just 2D6 every time? It rolls 7 on average, while 1D12 rolls only 6.5 on average.

But you have a better chance of rolling a 12 (or 11, I think) with a D12, so doesn't that give you a better chance of beating a D20, since its average is 10?

It's true that D12 has a better chance of beating 10, but a D20 only averages at 10, it doesn't roll it every time. To make it easier to wrap your head around the issue, imagine that you play the game 20 times and the D20 rolls each of its numbers exactly once.

I wrote a Python script to simulate this because it was easier than doing the math and it looks like 2D6 wins about 30% of the time, while 1D12 only wins about 27.5% of the time.

[Roadrunner7671]

So if you're trying to roll higher than a D4, which is better? What if you're trying to roll higher than a D10? Or D20?

Isn't it just 2D6 every time? It rolls 7 on average, while 1D12 rolls only 6.5 on average.

But you have a better chance of rolling a 12 (or 11, I think) with a D12, so doesn't that give you a better chance of beating a D20, since its average is 10?

It's true that D12 has a better chance of beating 10, but a D20 only averages at 10, it doesn't roll it every time. To make it easier to wrap your head around the issue, imagine that you play the game 20 times and the D20 rolls each of its numbers exactly once.

I wrote a Python script to simulate this because it was easier than doing the math and it looks like 2D6 wins about 30% of the time, while 1D12 only wins about 27.5% of the time.

Okay, that actually did help me wrap my head around it. Thank you!

[scott_pilgrim]

I think that was the most on-topic discussion in this thread!

[schadd]

idea: reddit variant that lets you upvote/downvote individual words
e.g. my three favorite garies are gary from spongebob, gary johnson and gary, indiana

[Witherweaver]

idea: reddit variant that lets you upvote/downvote individual words
e.g. my three favorite garies are gary from spongebob, gary johnson and gary, indiana

Glengarry Glen Ross :/

[silverspawn]

Played around with some effects. Didn't expect it to amount to anything, but...

[Seprix]

Played around with some effects. Didn't expect it to amount to anything, but...

That's not terrible by any means. What did you use?

[Kirian]

Played around with some effects. Didn't expect it to amount to anything, but...

Well, I didn't need to sleep tonight.

[silverspawn]

I use paint.net, I drew some circles and then randomly applied and reversed effects. Had no idea what I was doing.

[pacovf]

And you want to travel with her, and you want to travel blind
And you know that she will trust you
For you've touched her perfect body with your mind

[Donald X.]

And you want to travel with her, and you want to travel blind
And you know that she will trust you
For you've touched her perfect body with your mind

and who
shall I say
is calling

[Accatitippi]

Well, imagine you're building a house. There is the methodical aspect of it, which is about how tall you make it, how you order your rooms, whether or not you include a giant labyrinth into the cellar to troll people, and then there is the XXXX aspect, which is about what kind of cement you use, and which kinds of machines.

I think there is a word but I can't remember it.

Material. Capital.

I'm very late to the party, but maybe technical?

[silverspawn]

technical is pretty good

[SpaceAnemone]

technical is pretty good

Implementational?

[Lekkit]

On my way home after finishing an RPG campaign we've been playing for the last seven years. Feels pretty good.

[Awaclus]

On my way home after finishing an RPG campaign we've been playing for the last seven years. Feels pretty good.

Was the campaign that bad, if it feels good that it's over?

[Roadrunner7671]

On my way home after finishing an RPG campaign we've been playing for the last seven years. Feels pretty good.

Yeah I'd be sad if it was over

[Roadrunner7671]

Are there any cough drops that aren't gross?

[Lekkit]

On my way home after finishing an RPG campaign we've been playing for the last seven years. Feels pretty good.

Yeah I'd be sad if it was over

I'm not. As I said, we've been playing this campaign for seven years. While we ended on a very epic and somewhat tragic note (my character had developed untreatable cancer from crawling inside a post apocalyptic nuclear power plant and passed away during the epilogue) we all kind of wanted to be done with it. All of us has played the same characters for at least 5 years. With me and another one having played the same character throughout the entire campaign. Getting to start over with new character who aren't epically good at everything will be fun, for sure.

Worth noting is that this was the campaing that came with the system and we included almost every single smaller official scenario and some inofficial ones as well.

[Kuildeous]

On my way home after finishing an RPG campaign we've been playing for the last seven years. Feels pretty good.

Was the campaign that bad, if it feels good that it's over?

Just like TV shows, RPG games can get stagnant. Better to end on a high note than to keep trudging along.

And if the story is especially good, then it can have a satisfying end.

[silverspawn]

Played around with some effects. Didn't expect it to amount to anything, but...

I worked on it further (or made it into something else, rather). This is pretty fun. I unexpectedly feel slightly motivated to be productive again.

[Witherweaver]

[Tables]

Looks like a TAS. Very cool.

[SpaceAnemone]

Played around with some effects. Didn't expect it to amount to anything, but...

I worked on it further (or made it into something else, rather). This is pretty fun. I unexpectedly feel slightly motivated to be productive again.

Be careful! I used to love doing stuff like that, and now I've ended up with a career in image analysis ;-)

You might also enjoy the book "Symmetry in Chaos: A Search for Pattern in Mathematics, Art, and Nature" by Martin Golubitsky & Michael Field. It generates similar-ish images, but using complex systems as a starting point, and covers different types of symmetries and symmetry-breaking. It's pretty trivial to code up some really nice stuff :-)

[Witherweaver]

Does anyone have a link to that video where Donald was discussing different voting theories? It was posted somewhere on the boards, but I can't remember where and can't come up with the correct search string.

[Seprix]

Does anyone have a link to that video where Donald was discussing different voting theories? It was posted somewhere on the boards, but I can't remember where and can't come up with the correct search string.

[Witherweaver]

Thanks sir.

[Donald X.]

Does anyone have a link to that video where Donald was discussing different voting theories? It was posted somewhere on the boards, but I can't remember where and can't come up with the correct search string.

Later I came up with one scheme that's just perfect, for a narrow situation that comes up everywhere constantly. I will share this wonderful thing with you. This is the text as written several years ago; I could tweak it a little to be clearer now (e.g. it should say "data loss" in a few places it says "data compression"), but I think it will do the job as written.

By voting reforms, I don't mean like making ballots clear or something. I mean, algorithms for doing a better job of going from "what people want" to "what people get." And conventional voting, I will tell you now, is awful at this.

The problem is data compression. You take everything about what one person wants in a president, for example, and compress it down into one bit of information - which of two candidates they prefer. Then you take millions of these bits - one per voter - and compress them down to one bit - who wins. Paint a picture of what Americans want in a president. To paint this picture you may use a single pixel, which you can make a particular shade of red or a particular shade of blue.

It's not quite that bad because of primaries, and you can argue about what chances exactly a 3rd party has, but whatever. There's massive data compression here. And the result is, well like I said, you do a poor job of turning what people want into what they get. You may still get some other value out of voting; that's not my topic today.

Sadly most voting reforms focus only on increasing the input. Instant run-off voting, for example, increases the number of bits of information each person puts into the system. But the output is still a single bit, so with millions of voters each voter can only contribute a tiny fraction of a bit to the result anyway. Increasing the input can address the problem of spoilers, and that's great, but mostly what you are accomplishing is letting people pretend to vote for a loser while casting their real vote for one of the two contenders.

I have a bunch of schemes for improving on conventional voting. Mostly they involve explaining tricky stuff to the voters, or have weird ways to game the system, or other problems. They are interesting thought experiments but need work. Today though I have a scheme to share that has no such issues. It manages to dodge problems my other ideas have, by only addressing a certain situation: voting for voters. As it happens people do this all the time so this is still useful.

So here is the scheme. I will use the U.S. House of Representatives for my example. It will apply to any situation where people vote on voters though.

1. Redraw the voting districts to be twice as big. Just join adjacent districts.
2. People vote for representatives in each district. It looks like classic voting here: pick your favorite guy.
3. Each representative getting at least 15% of the vote is elected. Potentially six people from any given district will make it in, or maybe just one.
4. In the House, when the representatives vote on things, each representative gets a number of votes equal to the number of people that voted for them. If 17,350 people voted for you, you get 17,350 votes in the House. You don't get to split your votes - anything you vote on, all 17,350 votes go the same way (or however many you got).

That's it. How many votes a representative gets depends on how many votes they got. In a typical district one or two people would make it into office, but possibly more would; in the long run you might want to make the voting districts a little larger to cut down on how many members of the House you end up with total.

The beauty of this system is that it's so easy to see how it works and what it gets you. The representatives are representing the voters, right? Doesn't this system therefore make way more sense than well not doing this? Once upon a time, large numbers were more work to deal with; today a computer just adds them up for you.

Let's say one district is 60% Apple party members, 30% Blueberry, 10% Carrot. Under the current system, the Apple gets in and gets one vote in Congress. The Blueberries and Carrots are unrepresented. With my proposal, the Apple and Blueberry candidates both get in, but in Congress the Apple guy's opinion counts for twice as much as the Blueberry guy's (well the district is twice as big but you know). This better corresponds to the reality of the district. The Carrot guy still doesn't make it in; I have to draw the line somewhere, so that everyone doesn't vote themselves into Congress, and if a party doesn't have a certain amount of support, maybe we would be scared to give them any power anyway.

One benchmark I like is, how does the voting reform do against gerrymandering? Gerrymandering doesn't do anything here unless you can get the enemy party below 15% somewhere. If you can't, they get the same number of votes no matter what you do. Gerrymandering can still be used against parties without much support in a region though, because of that 15% threshold. So, the district lines do matter, but not everywhere, and not as much as they currently do.

This system doesn't limit a party to one candidate in a district, and it's fine if two candidates for the same party win in a district - it doesn't give that party an advantage, since each candidate ends up with fewer votes and thus fewer votes in the House as a result. It might hurt that party though if they splintered so much that some of their people went below 15%, so in practice I think parties would have primaries and try to just have one guy running per district.

Overall this system seems obviously better than the current system, by the metric of, how well does it turn what people want into what they get. It represents people better than the current system, which seems like a fine thing to want out of representatives. So, get to it, governments!

[Seprix]

It's an interesting system, and the nice thing about it is that it can be simplified a tad with all of those huge numbers. Instead of 17k votes and all those huge numbers which scare people and turn them off, it can probably just be rounded down to say 17. It can always be expanded again if need be. That is taking representative democracy more literally than before. It's an interesting idea.

Another idea I have thought of is President major and President minor, where the second place person is President minor. That's kind of the whole VP being whoever loses in the past though, and that didn't work out too well then.

[Witherweaver]

Interesting, thanks.  When you think about these things, do you formally go through and show which criteria it does and does not satisfy?  (I don't know much about voting theory, I'm just talking about what Wikipedia says.  Is that kind of the accepted evaluation technique?)

[Witherweaver]

That's kind of the whole VP being whoever loses in the past though, and that didn't work out too well then.

When was that done?  (Not a politics person here.)  I've always kind of thought that if I were ever to be president (not that I want to or am qualified), I'd select my main opponent(s) for major positions.  I haven't actually thought it through, just, seems to make sense to get people with different viewpoints to help you, as long as you can work together.

[Seprix]

That's kind of the whole VP being whoever loses in the past though, and that didn't work out too well then.

When was that done?  (Not a politics person here.)  I've always kind of thought that if I were ever to be president (not that I want to or am qualified), I'd select my main opponent(s) for major positions.  I haven't actually thought it through, just, seems to make sense to get people with different viewpoints to help you, as long as you can work together.

It happened during the 1796 election, where nobody won, and John Adams ended up getting stuck with Thomas Jefferson as VP. It's an interesting time period too, because this election result basically formulated the 1-party system.

edit: I just realized I typed it so that it seemed like it happened all the time, sorry about that

[Witherweaver]

Let's say one district is 60% Apple party members, 30% Blueberry, 10% Carrot. Under the current system, the Apple gets in and gets one vote in Congress. The Blueberries and Carrots are unrepresented. With my proposal, the Apple and Blueberry candidates both get in, but in Congress the Apple guy's opinion counts for twice as much as the Blueberry guy's (well the district is twice as big but you know). This better corresponds to the reality of the district. The Carrot guy still doesn't make it in; I have to draw the line somewhere, so that everyone doesn't vote themselves into Congress, and if a party doesn't have a certain amount of support, maybe we would be scared to give them any power anyway.

In practice, how much different is Apple 2x Blueberry x vs just Apple in?  Blueberry is 'represented' but its vote gets dwarfed by Apple.  If our society were just this district, then it wouldn't be any different than just electing Apple alone (except for the extent to which Blueberry and Apple can influence each other while working in the same building, or whaterver).*  So we actually have lots of these, so you have an aggregate effect, though it's not clear to me how that plays out in practice. 

*I suppose one thing is that you'd have more opportunities for vote-trading, like, Apple needs Blueberry's support for this thing, so they promise to support Blueberry on their other thing, so that's a way in which Blueberry might get some policy in this system that they wouldn't be able to get in the current system. 

[SpaceAnemone]

It happened during the 1796 election, where nobody won, and John Adams ended up getting stuck with Thomas Jefferson as VP. It's an interesting time period too, because this election result basically formulated the 1-party system.

I know this from listening to Hamilton maaaaany times, and I'm not even American :-P

[Donald X.]

Interesting, thanks.  When you think about these things, do you formally go through and show which criteria it does and does not satisfy?  (I don't know much about voting theory, I'm just talking about what Wikipedia says.  Is that kind of the accepted evaluation technique?)

I don't formally show anything or look up any criteria for judging things. I'm just entertaining myself.

[Seprix]

Everyone seems to like Hamilton.

[Witherweaver]

Everyone seems to like Hamilton.

Not Aaron Burr.

[Kuildeous]

Everyone seems to like Hamilton.

The style of music doesn't quite suit me, but I do like bold musicals. I haven't really given it a really good listen, nor have I had the chance to see it on stage.

But it sounds like it's a smash.

[Donald X.]

In practice, how much different is Apple 2x Blueberry x vs just Apple in?  Blueberry is 'represented' but its vote gets dwarfed by Apple.  If our society were just this district, then it wouldn't be any different than just electing Apple alone (except for the extent to which Blueberry and Apple can influence each other while working in the same building, or whaterver).*  So we actually have lots of these, so you have an aggregate effect, though it's not clear to me how that plays out in practice. 

It's a lot different! Our society is not just this district (and if it were, you could divide up that district so that it wasn't); the difference between a president and a parliament. And Apples aren't 100% party-line.

It is still a problem that then when the elected people themselves vote, they are using traditional awful voting. I have various approaches there, as you know from the video. The only perfect thing I have though is this method for voting on voters. In this one case you can just perfectly make each vote mean something, as much as it ever could, in a way that's very easy to understand.

In general it's ideal to replace voting with "choosing" as much as possible, everywhere that voting is used. The key concept of voting is "compare totals" and that just automatically throws away information about what people wanted. So in general my solution for "Congress votes on things" is to try to convert those votes to choices; for example instead of "vote on a budget" there's "each member gets a proportional amount of the budget to decide." That one example immediately doesn't work; everyone games the system, "you can put your money on roads like a chump, mine is 100% going to this thing only my party likes, oops no-one funded roads." But then you can work on, is there a way to fix that. In some cases there will be.

Obv. this innocent mathematical discussion should go to RSP, as people will helplessly bring in tangential issues.

[blueblimp]

Later I came up with one scheme that's just perfect, for a narrow situation that comes up everywhere constantly. I will share this wonderful thing with you. This is the text as written several years ago; I could tweak it a little to be clearer now (e.g. it should say "data loss" in a few places it says "data compression"), but I think it will do the job as written.

You've probably heard of it already, but you might be interested in the Single Transferable Vote (STV) system, which is a multi-member district system used in a few places already. Your system has a much simpler ballot though, which is nice.

[Donald X.]

You've probably heard of it already, but you might be interested in the Single Transferable Vote (STV) system, which is a multi-member district system used in a few places already. Your system has a much simpler ballot though, which is nice.

I am pretty familiar with voting systems. The one that's fun to say is Cloneproof Schwartz Sequential Dropping. The best simple system that doesn't increase the output (and thus sucks) is to give each candidate a score from 0-10, and add 'em up across voters. If people game the system it degenerates multiple times, ending up as approval voting, which is a fine simple system, if again you are willing to live with a 1-bit output, which you shouldn't be.

With STV, it's not the ranked list that makes things so much better, it's the output being more than one bit (due to the election determining a parliament). STV is providing additional bits of input, to a system that already had way more output than the vote for a president or Congressman. IRV in the USA would only get rid of spoilers (which is worth doing but a far cry from real reform).

It came up in the news a few years back, that Germany was increasing the size of their parliament, in order to have their representation be more proportional. Yet they could have had it be exact, perfect representation, with a smaller parliament than they already had. I thought, should I try to reach these people? But as always probably the move is to start with Sweden.

[Kirian]

Everyone seems to like Hamilton.

Not Aaron Burr.

Awwon Buh?

[Seprix]

That made me incredibly sad. Why can't that nerd have just one day of happiness?

[Seprix]

Dating profile description: "Please give your name when replying to me."

My response: "Hi, my first name is ____, and if we get to know each other well enough, you'll get my last name. If we really get to know each other, you'll also get my last name."

Nailed it.

Edit: The conversation is going well so far!

[Awaclus]

Dating profile description: "Please give your name when replying to me."

My response: "Hi, my first name is ____, and if we get to know each other well enough, you'll get my last name. If we really get to know each other, you'll also get my last name."

Nailed it.

What exactly were you trying to say?

[pacovf]

Marry me.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Some random questions as a CS major.

Is coding still as fun when you move into higher levels?

What is the point of coding stuff in Vim?

[Awaclus]

What is the point of coding stuff in Vim?

[gkrieg13]

Some random questions as a CS major.

Is coding still as fun when you move into higher levels?

What is the point of coding stuff in Vim?

I used to think that vim was totally useless. Now I am logged in to a super computer all day and the only editor that the super computer has installed is vim. It is pretty powerful when you learn it (which takes a lot of time) but overall I would say it is worth it to learn. The other nice thing about it is nearly every computer will have it wherever you go so you don't need to worry about installing something else when you go start working at a new place. It also can be required by work places. There is also just some usefulness of being able to program in just a terminal.

[pacovf]

What gkrieg said. I ended up installing mvim on my local computer just because I got so used to vim's commands (mvim has a nicer GUI and works better for cutting and pasting, and mouse use). But yeah, the main draw of vim is that all computers (seem to?) have it.

[Kirian]

That awkward feeling when you join a game on BGA, and you recognize the handle of someone who joins your game as someone you know IRL, but don't much like and haven't seen in many years.

[Lekkit]

It gets even worse once you see the chatbox light up with their conversation.

[Kirian]

It gets even worse once you see the chatbox light up with their conversation.

I'm almost certain he doesn't know me as "Kirian" at all.

[Lekkit]

Then I'd say it's fun and not awkward.

[Witherweaver]

So I don't really like Starbucksbut,  sometimes it's just the most convenient.  Especially on holidays or other times when small businesses may be closed. 

For some reason they insist on making a cafe americano exactly incorrectly.  They put the espresso shots in an empty cup and then fill with (almost always way too hot) water.  It should be like a cafe longe (which you can't get in US, though they were the best thing ever in Paris): add hot (drinkable temperature) water and then add the espresso shots in top.  This preserves the nice 'cream' on top of the drink.  Also you want to drink the espresso shot as soon as possible, so why do it first?  After the few initial drinks, I suppose both ways are more or less the same as the drink has become homogeneous, but it's not as good at first.

Thanks for tuning in to this Thanksgiving coffee rant.

[Awaclus]

Thanks for tuning in to this Thanksgiving coffee rant.

You're welcome!

[Seprix]

So I don't really like Starbucksbut,  sometimes it's just the most convenient.  Especially on holidays or other times when small businesses may be closed. 

For some reason they insist on making a cafe americano exactly incorrectly.  They put the espresso shots in an empty cup and then fill with (almost always way too hot) water.  It should be like a cafe longe (which you can't get in US, though they were the best thing ever in Paris): add hot (drinkable temperature) water and then add the espresso shots in top.  This preserves the nice 'cream' on top of the drink.  Also you want to drink the espresso shot as soon as possible, so why do it first?  After the few initial drinks, I suppose both ways are more or less the same as the drink has become homogeneous, but it's not as good at first.

Thanks for tuning in to this Thanksgiving coffee rant.

But are you thankful for Starbucks?

[pingpongsam]

So I don't really like Starbucksbut,  sometimes it's just the most convenient.  Especially on holidays or other times when small businesses may be closed. 

For some reason they insist on making a cafe americano exactly incorrectly.  They put the espresso shots in an empty cup and then fill with (almost always way too hot) water.  It should be like a cafe longe (which you can't get in US, though they were the best thing ever in Paris): add hot (drinkable temperature) water and then add the espresso shots in top.  This preserves the nice 'cream' on top of the drink.  Also you want to drink the espresso shot as soon as possible, so why do it first?  After the few initial drinks, I suppose both ways are more or less the same as the drink has become homogeneous, but it's not as good at first.

Thanks for tuning in to this Thanksgiving coffee rant.

Starbucks (and most places, actually) don't even know what a macchiato is. I mean they have things on their menu with macchiato in the name but macchiato they are not. I hardly ever drink espresso, or even coffee anymore, but when I do it's going to be a macchiato which means I have to either make it myself, know a place that can, or give explicit directions to some misguided barista.

[Lekkit]

So I don't really like Starbucksbut,  sometimes it's just the most convenient.  Especially on holidays or other times when small businesses may be closed. 

For some reason they insist on making a cafe americano exactly incorrectly.  They put the espresso shots in an empty cup and then fill with (almost always way too hot) water.  It should be like a cafe longe (which you can't get in US, though they were the best thing ever in Paris): add hot (drinkable temperature) water and then add the espresso shots in top.  This preserves the nice 'cream' on top of the drink.  Also you want to drink the espresso shot as soon as possible, so why do it first?  After the few initial drinks, I suppose both ways are more or less the same as the drink has become homogeneous, but it's not as good at first.

Thanks for tuning in to this Thanksgiving coffee rant.

I don't drink americano. I think it's kind of weird, but I get why people do like it. I prefer when it tastes more, I guess.

Can't find anything on cafe longe, but I do know how cafe lungo works, and it's not really add water to espresso, but rather have more water pass through for a longer time.

And wikipedia says you can add the water before or after for an americano.

I don't know much about coffee, though. So take it with a grain of salt (which was apparently how one took their coffee, at least in Sweden, way back).

[Witherweaver]

So I don't really like Starbucksbut,  sometimes it's just the most convenient.  Especially on holidays or other times when small businesses may be closed. 

For some reason they insist on making a cafe americano exactly incorrectly.  They put the espresso shots in an empty cup and then fill with (almost always way too hot) water.  It should be like a cafe longe (which you can't get in US, though they were the best thing ever in Paris): add hot (drinkable temperature) water and then add the espresso shots in top.  This preserves the nice 'cream' on top of the drink.  Also you want to drink the espresso shot as soon as possible, so why do it first?  After the few initial drinks, I suppose both ways are more or less the same as the drink has become homogeneous, but it's not as good at first.

Thanks for tuning in to this Thanksgiving coffee rant.

I don't drink americano. I think it's kind of weird, but I get why people do like it. I prefer when it tastes more, I guess.

Can't find anything on cafe longe, but I do know how cafe lungo works, and it's not really add water to espresso, but rather have more water pass through for a longer time.

And wikipedia says you can add the water before or after for an americano.

I don't know much about coffee, though. So take it with a grain of salt (which was apparently how one took their coffee, at least in Sweden, way back).

I meant cafe alonge, which is the same as cafe lungo.  Not the same as an Americano, but that's like the closest you can get here to those. 

[ashersky]

I enjoy Starbucks for what it is -- a place for free wifi and flavored beverages that have coffee as an ingredient.

For real coffee, no matter the style, make your own at home.  (Or fly to Italy.)

[Witherweaver]

I enjoy Starbucks for what it is -- a place for free wifi and flavored beverages that have coffee as an ingredient.

For real coffee, no matter the style, make your own at home.  (Or fly to Italy.)

Sometimes getting coffee is my excuse to leave my apartment.  That was the only reason I went outside yesterday.

Edit: Though I do make my own; I have a relatively cheap (but functional) espresso machine and a French Press.

[Titandrake]

(Out of context from Paranatural, which is a fun webcomic.)

[eHalcyon]

Anyone have recommendations for a phone stylus?  I bought a cheap-ish one from Best Buy so I could continue to play Pokemon Go without my hands freezing.  It is wearing out after only a couple weeks of use.  Not sure if it's just especially low quality, cold weather or the specific motions needed for PoGo (but probably some combination of all 3).

Anyway, I'm not sure if a more expensive stylus would be better.  For now, I've ordered a set of 10 extra-cheap styluses from Amazon.  No idea if they'll collectively last longer, but it's so cheap that I may as well try.  They're gonna take a month to arrive though.  Any of you guys have relevant wisdom to offer?

[Lekkit]

Never used a phone stylus. I either suffer with my fingers being out in the cold or don't use my phone when I'm outside during the winter. On rare occasions I've used my nose. But when it's cold outside that's not really optimal as I have a tendency to get a slightly runny nose.

[Accatitippi]

There's also those gloves with touchscreen-active fingertips. I've never tried them, but my friend was pretty satisfied. They are not very thick, though, so they might not be warm enough for your winter.

[singletee]

[Kirian]

Anyone have recommendations for a phone stylus?  I bought a cheap-ish one from Best Buy so I could continue to play Pokemon Go without my hands freezing.  It is wearing out after only a couple weeks of use.  Not sure if it's just especially low quality, cold weather or the specific motions needed for PoGo (but probably some combination of all 3).

Anyway, I'm not sure if a more expensive stylus would be better.  For now, I've ordered a set of 10 extra-cheap styluses from Amazon.  No idea if they'll collectively last longer, but it's so cheap that I may as well try.  They're gonna take a month to arrive though.  Any of you guys have relevant wisdom to offer?

No wisdom, but a question: How in the world is something from Amazon taking a month to ship?

Unless I've misunderstood and they're coming from some rare uncontacted tribe in the Amazon.

[eHalcyon]

Anyone have recommendations for a phone stylus?  I bought a cheap-ish one from Best Buy so I could continue to play Pokemon Go without my hands freezing.  It is wearing out after only a couple weeks of use.  Not sure if it's just especially low quality, cold weather or the specific motions needed for PoGo (but probably some combination of all 3).

Anyway, I'm not sure if a more expensive stylus would be better.  For now, I've ordered a set of 10 extra-cheap styluses from Amazon.  No idea if they'll collectively last longer, but it's so cheap that I may as well try.  They're gonna take a month to arrive though.  Any of you guys have relevant wisdom to offer?

No wisdom, but a question: How in the world is something from Amazon taking a month to ship?

Unless I've misunderstood and they're coming from some rare uncontacted tribe in the Amazon.

My understanding is that it's actually shipping from China, even though it's sold on Amazon.  If they rip me off I won't care that much because it was about $2.  Reviews seem to be fine though.  Amazon as a storefront seems to obfuscate a lot though so I'm not entirely sure.

[pacovf]

Anybody in here has any experience with signal processing? I have signals that have a huge messy noise source around 50kHz that I want to get rid off. I've tried some things already with less good results than I was hoping, so I am looking for options.

[Awaclus]

Anybody in here has any experience with signal processing? I have signals that have a huge messy noise source around 50kHz that I want to get rid off. I've tried some things already with less good results than I was hoping, so I am looking for options.

I would have some ideas for audio signals specifically (e.g. just leave it there because who cares about 50kHz), but you probably mean something different.

[pacovf]

Well, yeah. Assuming it were a more annoying frequency for you, what would you do? Probably won't be useful to me, but who knows.

[pingpongsam]

Well, yeah. Assuming it were a more annoying frequency for you, what would you do? Probably won't be useful to me, but who knows.

notch filter? for meatspace

[Awaclus]

Well, yeah. Assuming it were a more annoying frequency for you, what would you do? Probably won't be useful to me, but who knows.

I might do some of the following:

 - Record the signal and use a denoiser after the fact
 - Use a multiband noise gate to duck the volume whenever there's just noise going on
 - Record the signal and manually automate the volume of a peak filter to achieve the same result as above but better
 - Blend the signal in with a similar sounding synthesizer
 - Play around with Vocodex and hope for the best

But mostly if the 1st option wasn't enough to get the result I wanted, I'd try to get a better signal before doing anything else, unless I had no other choice but to use that signal no matter what (or if I had to do it live).

A notch filter is a pretty heavy-handed approach but it works if there's nothing important going on at the frequencies in question.

[pacovf]

Well the data is already recorded, so at this point I am looking at digital solutions. Analog solutions could prove useful for next time though.

I have a relatively short signal sitting on a relatively long (and noisy) window, with the 50kHz (actually more like 45 to 60 kHz) being the part of the noise that interferes the most with my signal. I care about the noise during and right before or after my signal.

Something like a notch filter seems to create too many aberrations to be useful (admittedly I haven't tried all possible implementations). I've tried identifying the phase of the ~50kHz and substracting a sinusoid with same amplitude, but the phase is only stable for some 400 μs before some transient behaviour changes it in some random way, as far as I can see.

For the time being, the best solution I've found is to "flatten" the 50kHz peak in frequency space; it does reduce the contribution of that noise without affecting my signal, just not quite enough.

Worst part of this is that trying to read the research on the topic is very frustrating, because for some reason signal processing comes associated with different terminology depending on the area it is being applied to.

Any idea what a denoiser does, exactly?

[scott_pilgrim]

You never truly appreciate the 'r' and 'e' keys being right next to each other until you try to search "Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them" and come up with something totally different...

[eHalcyon]

You never truly appreciate the 'r' and 'e' keys being right next to each other until you try to search "Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them" and come up with something totally different...

It's always good to proofread, in order to keep abeast of typos.

[Awaclus]

Any idea what a denoiser does, exactly?

It needs a saample of just the noise, and it analyzes that and then it can remove similar noise from any signal.

[pacovf]

I guess it would be too much to assume that you know how? Or, failing that, have a link?

[Awaclus]

I guess it would be too much to assume that you know how? Or, failing that, have a link?

I mean, I know how to use it, but I have no idea what it's technically doing.

[Kirian]

You never truly appreciate the 'r' and 'e' keys being right next to each other until you try to search "Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them" and come up with something totally different...

This will obviously be a parody porn, if it isn't already.

[Kirian]

You never truly appreciate the 'r' and 'e' keys being right next to each other until you try to search "Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them" and come up with something totally different...

It's always good to proofread, in order to keep abeast of typos.

As Taylor Mali says, there is no prostitute for proper proofreading.

[SpaceAnemone]

I guess it would be too much to assume that you know how? Or, failing that, have a link?

I'm in image processing rather than 1D signals, but usually if you can characterize the statistical properties of your noise vs your signal, you're off to a good start. Often denoising relies on decomposing your signal into some kind of basis function representation, downweighting coefficients that represent the noise band, and reconstructing the original signal minus the noise from that. You say you've tried frequency space (FFTs?) already, so that's one related approach. You might investigate different windowing functions you could apply beforehand, too.

An important question is what you're doing with your signal afterwards, though. If you're using it for some kind of analysis, can you just design the remainder of the pipeline to be robust/invariant to the noise, rather than requiring a pre-processing step that might also interfere with the informative part of the signal?

[Kuildeous]

As Taylor Mali says, there is no prostitute for proper proofreading.

Well, there's yet another one of my kinks unfulfilled. *sigh*

[Kirian]

For reference

[pacovf]

I guess it would be too much to assume that you know how? Or, failing that, have a link?

I'm in image processing rather than 1D signals, but usually if you can characterize the statistical properties of your noise vs your signal, you're off to a good start. Often denoising relies on decomposing your signal into some kind of basis function representation, downweighting coefficients that represent the noise band, and reconstructing the original signal minus the noise from that. You say you've tried frequency space (FFTs?) already, so that's one related approach. You might investigate different windowing functions you could apply beforehand, too.

An important question is what you're doing with your signal afterwards, though. If you're using it for some kind of analysis, can you just design the remainder of the pipeline to be robust/invariant to the noise, rather than requiring a pre-processing step that might also interfere with the informative part of the signal?

Simplifying my problem, I am trying to identify the number of times a given pulse shape appears in my signal, with that pulse shape occurring in clusters.  I have yet to try Wiener deconvolution (since I know my pulse shape and have a good estimate of my noise), that seems like the next logical step. Otherwise, I have to try wavelets and see what happens, although I have no experience with those.

I have tried to make the remainder of the pipeline more robust to the noise, that was my first approach, but I have only limited success because of that 50kHz, so that's why I am trying to approach the problem from that angle now.

[LaLight]

I had a dream tonight that made me remember about one beautiful and interesting game called Braid. Has anyone played? I highly recommend it, it's in my top-5 best games in the world!

[Titandrake]

I had a dream tonight that made me remember about one beautiful and interesting game called Braid. Has anyone played? I highly recommend it, it's in my top-5 best games in the world!

I've played it. I wouldn't put it in my top 5, but it was definitely worth playing.

[SpaceAnemone]

An important question is what you're doing with your signal afterwards, though. If you're using it for some kind of analysis, can you just design the remainder of the pipeline to be robust/invariant to the noise, rather than requiring a pre-processing step that might also interfere with the informative part of the signal?

Simplifying my problem, I am trying to identify the number of times a given pulse shape appears in my signal, with that pulse shape occurring in clusters.  I have yet to try Wiener deconvolution (since I know my pulse shape and have a good estimate of my noise), that seems like the next logical step. Otherwise, I have to try wavelets and see what happens, although I have no experience with those.

I have tried to make the remainder of the pipeline more robust to the noise, that was my first approach, but I have only limited success because of that 50kHz, so that's why I am trying to approach the problem from that angle now.

How strong a constraint do you have on the exact pulse shape? Presumably not strong enough that you can just convolve the signal with that and look for peaks? Assuming not, maybe try
sliding window approach, with a windowing function -> fourier space -> match against a frequency profile for your signal that's robust to whatever's going on around 50kHz -> non-maximal suppression to get a count.

The objective function you're optimizing over in order to arrive at a denoised version of your original signal is almost certainly the wrong thing if what you actually want to do to the signal is just to count pulses. Even if the above outline of a plan isn't good enough, I feel that there ought to be a much better approach that utterly destroys most of the original signal, but is very good at making your desired pulses stand out, so that's what I'd be looking for. BTW, what software are you using for your investigation?

[SpaceAnemone]

I had a dream tonight that made me remember about one beautiful and interesting game called Braid. Has anyone played? I highly recommend it, it's in my top-5 best games in the world!

I've played it! :-) I think Braid and Portal 2 are the only two computer games I've played in the last 10+ years! That doesn't count the odd browser game, and a lot of Ingress/Pokemon Go, of course...

[Roadrunner7671]

In the past people have been able to answer my questions about dice, but I think this one is more difficult.

Which one is more likely to win, a D10 or a D8+1? Which one is 'better?'

[Witherweaver]

So I saw Book of Mormon today.  It's pretty amazing.

[Witherweaver]

The expected value of 1d10 is

1*1/10+2*1/10+...+10*1/10 = (1+2+...+9+10)/10=55/10 =5.5

The expected value of (1d8 + 1) is

(2+3+4+...+8+9)/8 = 44/8 = 5.5

So the mean is the same.  Variance, though, is relevant, which depends on the second moment

sum(x_i^2*P(x_i))

[heron]

In the past people have been able to answer my questions about dice, but I think this one is more difficult.

Which one is more likely to win, a D10 or a D8+1? Which one is 'better?'

They are equally likely to win, and there is a 1/10 chance of a tie. The probability of a the D8 + 1 rolling the value k is equal to the probability of the D8+1 rolling a value of 11 - k.

[Roadrunner7671]

Huh. Okay.

What about if you were facing a roll of a D12? Which would be better?

[Awaclus]

Huh. Okay.

What about if you were facing a roll of a D12? Which would be better?

The D12.

In less mathy terms, D10 has a range of 1-10 with each result being equally likely. D8+1 has a range of 2-9 with each result being equally likely. Looking at it from that perspective, it's not difficult to see that they would have the same average roll. D12 has a range of 1-12 with each result being equally likely, so it's better.

[pacovf]

I think the fact that the probability distributions are symmetric about their mean, and have te same mean, is a sufficient condition to conclude that both are equally likely to win (because for each possible result, the opposite one is equally likely). With dice, the probability distributions are always symmetric, so the only thing that matters is the mean.

[Roadrunner7671]

Huh. Okay.

What about if you were facing a roll of a D12? Which would be better?

The D12.

In less mathy terms, D10 has a range of 1-10 with each result being equally likely. D8+1 has a range of 2-9 with each result being equally likely. Looking at it from that perspective, it's not difficult to see that they would have the same average roll. D12 has a range of 1-12 with each result being equally likely, so it's better.

No, I meant would you rather roll a D10 or D8+1 against a D12?

[Awaclus]

Huh. Okay.

What about if you were facing a roll of a D12? Which would be better?

The D12.

In less mathy terms, D10 has a range of 1-10 with each result being equally likely. D8+1 has a range of 2-9 with each result being equally likely. Looking at it from that perspective, it's not difficult to see that they would have the same average roll. D12 has a range of 1-12 with each result being equally likely, so it's better.

No, I meant would you rather roll a D10 or D8+1 against a D12?

Doesn't matter.

[Roadrunner7671]

Huh. Okay.

What about if you were facing a roll of a D12? Which would be better?

The D12.

In less mathy terms, D10 has a range of 1-10 with each result being equally likely. D8+1 has a range of 2-9 with each result being equally likely. Looking at it from that perspective, it's not difficult to see that they would have the same average roll. D12 has a range of 1-12 with each result being equally likely, so it's better.

No, I meant would you rather roll a D10 or D8+1 against a D12?

Doesn't matter.

Really? But they have different ranges

[Awaclus]

Huh. Okay.

What about if you were facing a roll of a D12? Which would be better?

The D12.

In less mathy terms, D10 has a range of 1-10 with each result being equally likely. D8+1 has a range of 2-9 with each result being equally likely. Looking at it from that perspective, it's not difficult to see that they would have the same average roll. D12 has a range of 1-12 with each result being equally likely, so it's better.

No, I meant would you rather roll a D10 or D8+1 against a D12?

Doesn't matter.

Really? But they have different ranges

They have the same average roll.

[Roadrunner7671]

The D12.

In less mathy terms, D10 has a range of 1-10 with each result being equally likely. D8+1 has a range of 2-9 with each result being equally likely. Looking at it from that perspective, it's not difficult to see that they would have the same average roll. D12 has a range of 1-12 with each result being equally likely, so it's better.

No, I meant would you rather roll a D10 or D8+1 against a D12?

Doesn't matter.

Really? But they have different ranges

They have the same average roll.

Is there any instance where you'd rather have 1D8+1 over a D10, or vice versa?

Obviously when rolling a one sided die. But what about with a D4? Would you maybe want the D8+1 instead of the D10?

[Awaclus]

Is there any instance where you'd rather have 1D8+1 over a D10, or vice versa?

Obviously when rolling a one sided die. But what about with a D4? Would you maybe want the D8+1 instead of the D10?

For D4, you'd want D8+1. For D4+5, you'd want D10. That's because the numbers 1-10 are symmetric in such a way that D10 has the advantage for the higher numbers and D8+1 for the lower numbers (and it all adds up so that they're both just as good against anything that rolls numbers between 1 and 10 symmetrically).

[Kuildeous]

So I saw Book of Mormon today.  It's pretty amazing.

It really is. You could not have convinced me 15 years ago that a South Park creator could be involved with such a huge Broadway hit.

I think what's interesting is that while the show does poke a little fun at the religion, the religion is just a vehicle in which to move the story about these two guys.

And the ending shows how easy it is for scripture to be warped into something else entirely.

[Kuildeous]

No, I meant would you rather roll a D10 or D8+1 against a D12?

I could calculate the probability of each die result, but I'm lazy, so I instead simulated the dice rolls in Excel with batches of 100k results.

Both the d10 and the d8+1 beat the d12 37-38% of the time whenever I ran a new simulation of 100k.

As far as whether you would choose the d10 or the d8+1, that may depend on whether or not you want a chance of a 10 or if you want no chance for a 1.

[theorel]

Is there any instance where you'd rather have 1D8+1 over a D10, or vice versa?

Obviously when rolling a one sided die. But what about with a D4? Would you maybe want the D8+1 instead of the D10?

For D4, you'd want D8+1. For D4+5, you'd want D10. That's because the numbers 1-10 are symmetric in such a way that D10 has the advantage for the higher numbers and D8+1 for the lower numbers (and it all adds up so that they're both just as good against anything that rolls numbers between 1 and 10 symmetrically).

To generalize:
d10 is more likely to roll less than 5, and more likely to roll greater than 6.

So considering static numbers: (define "win" as roll better and "lose" as not "win")
d8+1 "wins" against 1, 2, 3, and 4 more frequently.
d10 "wins" against 6, 7, 8, and 9 more frequently.
They win equally often against 5.
And they both always win for 0 or less, and always lose for 10 or more.

Then for any given probability distribution including numbers from 1-9, you can see how it matches up against those values.  They aren't all equivalent probability wins, but they're symmetric about 5.  Basically, if comparing against other symmetric distributions, you'll just have to consider if one side is more likely than the other.  Against a uniform distribution that's just counting:
Here are some examples.
1d4, 1-4 are lots more likely (only possible) 1d8+1 wins more.
1d4+5 6-9 lots more likely (only possible) 1d10 wins more.
1d6 more 1-4 counts than 6-9 counts, 1d8+1 wins more.
1d6+2 has 3, 4, 6, 7, 8...more 6-9 counts so 1d10 wins more.

How about, 2d4? It has values 2-8 symmetric about the mean (5)...and so, it compares equally to d8+1 (winning more frequently on 2, 3, and 4), and d10 (winning more frequently on 6, 7, and 8).

Aside: What if we include ties?  well, if we adjust our definition of "win" to be "at least tie" then:
d8+1 "wins" against 2, 3, 4, and 5 more frequently.
d10 "wins" against 7, 8, 9, and 10 more frequently.

So, d8+1 will at least tie against 2d4 much more frequently than d10.  Since they're equal for "win", we see that if getting a tie has any advantage then d8+1 is better in this case.
--

What about 2d6?  2d6 has a symmetric probability about 7.  If you know much about rolling 2d6, you know 6, 7, 8 are more likely than 2,3,4...and it doesn't include 1, so clearly d10 is better here.

What about 2d6-1 though?  this includes all the numbers in both ranges, but it's still more likely to roll in the 6-9 range than the 1-4 range. (4 and 8 have the same likelihood and it goes down as you get farther from 6).

Finally, looking at 2d6-2.  Mean is 5, probability goes down as you get away from it.  So probability of 4 is same as 6, etc...makes them equal for win again.
(and again if we consider ties, 1d8+1 wins again)

[Witherweaver]

Maybe just do it in general?

        P(X >= Y) = int_{x >= y} f_{XY}(x,y) dmu(X) dmu(Y),

where f_{XY} denotes the joint probability, mu(X) and mu(Y) are the measures.  If X and Y are indepenent, then f_{XY} = g*h, where g is the density function for X and h is the density function for Y.   So

        P(X >= Y) = int_{-infty}^{infty} int_y^{infty} g(x) h(y) dmu(X)dmu(Y)

Since we're dealing with dice, mu(X) and mu(Y) are just the counting measures, so

        P(X >= Y) = sum_{x >= y} p(x)*p(y) = sum_{Y range}*sum_{X range where X >= y} p(x)*p(y).

So if X is a roll from 1d10, (X is a selection of the space {1, 2, ..., 10} with uniform probability 1/10), and Y is a roll from 1d8+1, Y is a selection from (2, 3, ..., 9) with uniform probability 1/8, then

        P(1d10 >= 1d8+1) = [1/10*9 ]*1/8 +[1/10*8]*1/8 + ... + [1/10*2]*1/8 = (9+8+7+6+5+4+3+2)*1/10*1/8= 44/80= 11/20 = .55

In case that decomposition isn't clear, we're calculating

        P(1d10 >= 2)*p(Y=2) + P(1d10 >= 3)*P(Y=3) + ... + P(1d10>=8)*P(Y=9),

recalling Y stands for 1d8+1.  To find, say, P(1d10>=3), this can happen in 8 ways: rolling 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10.  Each of these has probability 1/10.  So (1/10)*8.  Note that we're including the 1d10 roll tying or exceeding the 1d8+1 roll. If we want just 1d10 > 1d8+1, then each term above has one less, so it would be

        P(1d10 > 1d8+1) = (8+7+6+5+4+3+2+1)*1/10*1/8 = 9/20 = 0.45.

Note that they are trying with probability 0.1, and so the 1d8+1 roll wins with probability 0.45 as well.  Symmetry as expected. 

To do the example of beating a d12 (let's say strictly beating),

        P(1d10 > 1d12) = (9*1/10)*1/12 + (8*1/10)*1/12 + ... + (1*1/10)*1/12

(the last term represents the d12 rolling 9, for which only one roll (a 10 on 1d10) can beat it.  The terms following (d12 rolling 10, 11, 12) give a probability of zero for the 1d10 roll exceeding them.  So this sum is

        (9+8+7+ 6+5+4+3+2+1)*1/10*1/12 = 45/120 = 0.375.

Note Kuildeous' numerical test giving 0.37--0.38.  (If you calculate P(1d10 >= 1d12), you'd get (10+9+...+2+1)/120 = 55/120 = 0.45833.)

What about the 1d8+1 roll?  We have

        P(1d8+1 > 1d12) = (1/8*8 )*1/12 + (1/8*7)*1/12 + (1/8*6)*1/12 + ... + (1/8*1)*1/12

The first term represents a roll of 1 on a 1d2, for which any roll on the 1d8+1 (span {2, ..., 9}) wins.  The second is a roll of 2 on 1d12, for which 7 rolls on the d8 win, etc.  This is

        (8+7+6+5+4+3+2+1)*(1/8)*(1/12) = 36/96 = 3/8 = 0.375.

So they are indeed the same. 

[Witherweaver]

Note that the calculations for ndN are done the same, but the probabilities are no longer uniform.  Consider 2d6, which has a range {2, 3, ..., 12}, but the probabilities are (letting X stand for the 2d6 random variable):

P(X=2) = 1/36
P(X=3) = 2/36
P(X=4) = 3/36
P(X=5) = 4/36
P(X=6) = 5/36
P(X=7) = 6/36
P(X=8) = 5/36
P(X=9) = 4/36
P(X=10) = 3/36
P(X=11) = 2/36
P(X=12) = 1/36

So these are the probabilities you would need to use for a particular term.  For example,

     P(2d6 > 1d10) = [1/36 + ... 5/36+ 6/36 + 5/36 + .. + 1/36]*1/10 + [2/36 + ... 6/36 + ... +1/36]*1/10 + ... + [2/36+1/36]*1/10
                           = (36/360) + (35/360) + (33/360) + (30/360) + (26/360) + (21/360) + (15/360) + (10/360) + (6/360) + (3/360)
                           = 215/360
                           ~ 0.59722

(The first term is a 1 on 1d10 and any roll on 2d6, the second is 2 on 1d10 and a roll of 3 or more on 2d6, etc., and the last term is a roll of 10 on 1d10 and a roll of 11 or 12 on 2d6.)

Oh and hey, there are a lot of calculators online doing these trivial but tedious calculations.  (There are of course ways to short-hand a lot.  For example, we know 1+2+..+k = k(k+1)/2, which I used a lot in the previous example.  You could do a similar thing here.)  One such calculator is http://anydice.com/, and you can even ask 2d6>1d10:

Code: [Select]

output 2d6>1d10
And it spits out 0 with probability 40.28% and 1 with probability 59.72%.

[SpaceAnemone]

@RR, if you don't like 2d integrals over the infinite plane in your die-rolling considerations, the easy way to visualise exactly what's going on with WW's example is to get some graph paper and colour in the squares. In the table below, the vertical axis is numbered for 1d8+1, and the horizontal axis is numbered for 1d10.

.	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	X
2	#	=	O	O	O	O	O	O	O	O
3	#	#	=	O	O	O	O	O	O	O
4	#	#	#	=	O	O	O	O	O	O
5	#	#	#	#	=	O	O	O	O	O
6	#	#	#	#	#	=	O	O	O	O
7	#	#	#	#	#	#	=	O	O	O
8	#	#	#	#	#	#	#	=	O	O
9	#	#	#	#	#	#	#	#	=	O

For any pair of dice, you're going to get the same pattern of having an equality line dividing the open "O" and closed "#" regions. Since any cell in this table is equally likely to get rolled (as long as you're using one fair die along each edge), then you just have to count up the open or closed cells and then divide by the total number (80) to get the actual probability.

You should be able to draw that kind of a diagram for any dice you like :-) It does kind of extend to having e.g. 2d6 on one edge, but then you have to worry about the area of each box (because the probabilities over the different numbers are no longer uniform), and add up areas rather than just counting cells.

PPE 1 -- ooh, hey, we're all thinking about nonuniform distributions now :-)

[Roadrunner7671]

This has turned into Random Stuff again for me. I have no idea what's happening!

[Archetype]

This has turned into Random Stuff again for me. I have no idea what's happening!

Someday I hope to understand what's going on.

[Witherweaver]

Random stuff is going on.  Particularly, random stuff that is realized by dice rolls, or more generally as algebraic functions of discrete uniform random variables.

[Kirian]

TFW Hamlet/Hamlet/Watchtower means your Watchtower draws 6 cards...

[Seprix]

[Tables]

Hi everyone. Hope your day is going well.

[Witherweaver]

Hi everyone. Hope your day is going well.

Don't tell me how to live my day!

[Kuildeous]

Hi everyone. Hope your day is going well.

Don't tell me how to live my day!

Well, he didn't tell you to have a good day. He just hoped it happened to be a good day.

Have a good day.

[Witherweaver]

Hi everyone. Hope your day is going well.

Don't tell me how to live my day!

Well, he didn't tell you to have a good day. He just hoped it happened to be a good day.

Have a good day.

It was implied and you know it.

[Witherweaver]

Hi everyone. Hope your day is going well.

Don't tell me how to live my day!

Well, he didn't tell you to have a good day. He just hoped it happened to be a good day.

Have a good day.

It was implied and you know it.

I mean, if I don't have a good day, then I'm disappointing him.  I'm ruining his day.  How dare he put that kind of weight on my shoulders.

[eHalcyon]

[Kuildeous]

I mean, if I don't have a good day, then I'm disappointing him.  I'm ruining his day.  How dare he put that kind of weight on my shoulders.

I've gotten pretty adept at being a disappointment. You get over it.

Besides, it's his fault for expecting too much from you. Who's he, right?

[Awaclus]

Today, I had to part with my super cute 7.62 RK-62 automatic assault rifle. 

[pingpongsam]

Today, I had to part with my super cute 7.62 RK-62 automatic assault rifle. 

Is this because the government has seen first to reappropriate it for you?

[Awaclus]

Today, I had to part with my super cute 7.62 RK-62 automatic assault rifle. 

Is this because the government has seen first to reappropriate it for you?

It's because my military service is about to be over.

[pingpongsam]

Today, I had to part with my super cute 7.62 RK-62 automatic assault rifle. 

Is this because the government has seen first to reappropriate it for you?

It's because my military service is about to be over.

Right, that's what I said.

[Tables]

Hi everyone. Hope your day is going well.

Don't tell me how to live my day!

Hi Witherweaver. I hope your day is as pleasant as you are.

[Seprix]

Today, I had to part with my super cute 7.62 RK-62 automatic assault rifle. 

Is this because the government has seen first to reappropriate it for you?

It's because my military service is about to be over.

That sounds great! Why is it sad?

[pingpongsam]

Today, I had to part with my super cute 7.62 RK-62 automatic assault rifle. 

Is this because the government has seen first to reappropriate it for you?

It's because my military service is about to be over.

That sounds great! Why is it sad?

Spoken by someone who's never fired an automatic rifle.

[Awaclus]

And an RK, no less! Man, shooting one is almost like meditation. You just relax your body and mind, then you aim, then you take a deep breath in, then you breathe half of the air in your lungs out, hold your breath and resolutely pull the trigger. Then the gun reloads itself because it's awesome and you repeat the process. It's just magical.

Also, I super enjoyed the military service in general and I applied for an extension but it got rejected. There's just so much cool stuff you can only do in the military, I really liked the staff at the barracks, and in an environment like this you're guaranteed to meet people with very diverse backgrounds and get tons of new friends outside of what would normally be your circles. I also love challenges, spending time in the wilderness, and leaving my comfort zone (to learn to appreciate it), and the military service offers a lot of those. I have also gotten much more physically fit and better at handling social situations. The only thing I was lacking here was free time, but with what little free time I had, I still managed to have almost as much fun and be almost as productive as I did when I had 5 times as much free time every day. Overall I'd say these were the best 165 days I've ever had in a row, so of course I'm sad now that I actually have to leave.

[Polk5440]

Also, I super enjoyed the military service in general and I applied for an extension but it got rejected.

Is this common for your country? Why wouldn't they want an enthusiastic and qualified recruit to continue on?

[Awaclus]

It's not common for people to want an extension, I actually don't know of anyone else who did (then again, unlike me, most enthusiasts probably get a longer serving time in the first place - I got the shortest possible one probably because my physical fitness wasn't the best when it was first measured but now it has obviously improved). The reason I was told was that it's super difficult to legally change someone's serving time after it has been decided once, so the captain didn't want to do it.

[Kirian]

Spoken by someone who's never fired an automatic rifle.

And an RK, no less! Man, shooting one is almost like meditation. You just relax your body and mind, then you aim, then you take a deep breath in, then you breathe half of the air in your lungs out, hold your breath and resolutely pull the trigger. Then the gun reloads itself because it's awesome and you repeat the process. It's just magical.

I cannot begin to describe how much the two of you scare me right now.

[2.71828.....]

It's not common for people to want an extension, I actually don't know of anyone else who did (then again, unlike me, most enthusiasts probably get a longer serving time in the first place - I got the shortest possible one probably because my physical fitness wasn't the best when it was first measured but now it has obviously improved). The reason I was told was that it's super difficult to legally change someone's serving time after it has been decided once, so the captain didn't want to do it.

So...someone didn't want to do paperwork. That's unfortunate. In my experience with government/military work there is a waiver for everything. It's just doing the paperwork

[Seprix]

Awaclus's country probably couldn't even declare war because some lackey didn't want to do the paperwork involved. Freaking Red Tape.

[pingpongsam]

Spoken by someone who's never fired an automatic rifle.

And an RK, no less! Man, shooting one is almost like meditation. You just relax your body and mind, then you aim, then you take a deep breath in, then you breathe half of the air in your lungs out, hold your breath and resolutely pull the trigger. Then the gun reloads itself because it's awesome and you repeat the process. It's just magical.

I cannot begin to describe how much the two of you scare me right now.

This makes me sad. Also, it strengthens my resolve to go to the range with my best friend before we break for Christmas. Also, now I know what I can get him for Christmas (ammo).

Reminds me my boss brought a Colt M4 Carbine to work last week to play with it. That was quite fun.

[2.71828.....]

Awaclus's country probably couldn't even declare war because some lackey didn't want to do the paperwork involved. Freaking Red Tape.

I mean, the US doesn't really declare war, just sends people everywhere. But this is starting to get too RSP for random stuff

[Awaclus]

Awaclus's country probably couldn't even declare war because some lackey didn't want to do the paperwork involved. Freaking Red Tape.

We wouldn't even declare a war in the first place. The purpose of our defense forces is actually just to defend.

[silverspawn]

Awaclus's country probably couldn't even declare war because some lackey didn't want to do the paperwork involved. Freaking Red Tape.

I mean, the US doesn't really declare war, just sends people everywhere. But this is starting to get too RSP for random stuff

Awaclus is from Finland, not from the US.

[silverspawn]

There really are some funny symbols out there. you can downright assault upper lines with some of them!

↹  ҈  ₰ ⊚ ≬ ∰ ∎ ⋯ ⎲ ⏏ ⎝ ⍟               ⎛⎝⎞⎛⎞⎝⎛⎞⎝⎛⎞⎝⎞

edit: and now imagine there would be no whitespace between them.
⎛⎝⎞⎛⎞⎝⎛⎞⎝⎛⎞⎝⎞⎛⎝⎞⎛⎞⎝⎛⎞⎝⎛⎞⎝⎞⎛⎝⎞⎛⎞⎝⎛⎞⎝⎛⎞⎝⎞⎛⎝⎞⎛⎞⎝⎛

edit2: apparently the effect depends on the computer from which you're reading. from mine they overlap, from the one I'm at now they don't.

[Kuildeous]

We wouldn't even declare a war in the first place. The purpose of our defense forces is actually just to defend.

Huh, what's that like, I wonder.

[2.71828.....]

Awaclus's country probably couldn't even declare war because some lackey didn't want to do the paperwork involved. Freaking Red Tape.

I mean, the US doesn't really declare war, just sends people everywhere. But this is starting to get too RSP for random stuff

Awaclus is from Finland, not from the US.

Yes, but seprix is from the US. I was going more of a "red tape is restrictive, but not always a bad thing" by comparing to the US. Every country has its own faults.

[pingpongsam]

Awaclus's country probably couldn't even declare war because some lackey didn't want to do the paperwork involved. Freaking Red Tape.

I mean, the US doesn't really declare war, just sends people everywhere. But this is starting to get too RSP for random stuff

Clearly doesn't know what a RK-62 is.

[silverspawn]

Awaclus's country probably couldn't even declare war because some lackey didn't want to do the paperwork involved. Freaking Red Tape.

I mean, the US doesn't really declare war, just sends people everywhere. But this is starting to get too RSP for random stuff

Awaclus is from Finland, not from the US.

Yes, but seprix is from the US. I was going more of a "red tape is restrictive, but not always a bad thing" by comparing to the US. Every country has its own faults.

I was wondering if that's what you meant, but then I thought if you did that sentence would have an 'also' in it

[Kuildeous]

I was wondering if that's what you meant, but then I thought if you did that sentence would have an 'also' in it

Et too, Brute?

[Kirian]

"More fun than playing Monopoly!"

Though possibly this belongs in the math(s) thread.

[ConMan]

That reminds me. In my YouTube "Recommended" videos there's one titled something like "What actually happens when you land on Free Parking in Monopoly?" and it goes for eight minutes. Eight. Minutes. I don't plan on watching it but I'm really hoping that it starts with someone saying "Nothing." and then just has eight minutes of muzac.

[Kuildeous]

That reminds me. In my YouTube "Recommended" videos there's one titled something like "What actually happens when you land on Free Parking in Monopoly?" and it goes for eight minutes. Eight. Minutes. I don't plan on watching it but I'm really hoping that it starts with someone saying "Nothing." and then just has eight minutes of muzac.

That's one reason I almost always ignore videos now. Too many people think they're more clever and interesting than they really are, so they make some six-minute video about a topic that can be handled with only 30 seconds of reading. He could literally just read from cue cards for 30 seconds, and it'd have been a much better use of all of our time than that video.

It doesn't help that many of these videos aren't edited or scripted, so it's just someone saying um and ah a lot punctuated with uncomfortable pauses.

Maybe the eight-minute video about Free Parking starts off with, "nothing," and then categorically describes why the game is made worse by adding even more money to the system.

But I'm sure it could also turn out to be another unscripted, unedited morass of stumbling through words.

Also, I can just read about Free Parking rather than listen to someone talk about it.

[Joseph2302]

That reminds me. In my YouTube "Recommended" videos there's one titled something like "What actually happens when you land on Free Parking in Monopoly?" and it goes for eight minutes. Eight. Minutes. I don't plan on watching it but I'm really hoping that it starts with someone saying "Nothing." and then just has eight minutes of muzac.

This came up on my Youtube list as well. Not planning on watching it.

[Kirian]

All right, I've sacrificed myself for you guys and watched the video.

While it takes a minute or so to get to "Nothing," the intro says that it's about all the things you're doing wrong.  Then it covers basically all the bad house rules people use (including some I'd never heard of, and wondered what people were thinking), tells you the real rules, etc.  It does discuss the reasoning behind not using house rules--every single one of them prolongs the game or increases the chance of fist-fights.  And of course using the real rules to your advantage can really increase your win chances.

Also, fun line (paraphrasing):  "You can sit in jail, and if you're rich enough, you can just continue to do business as usual, much like in real life."

It doesn't help that many of these videos aren't edited or scripted, so it's just someone saying um and ah a lot punctuated with uncomfortable pauses.

This one was definitely scripted.  I think most of what I watch on YT is scripted--certainly the best informative Tubers out there are working form scripts.  The only one I watch who doesn't is Brady Haran, and in general, because he's talking with actual mathematicians and scientists, they actually get to the point (although Cliff Stoll, for instance, rambles some).

[silverspawn]

If you're really good at monopoly, you might reach a 52% winrate against someone who only plays casually! And maybe a 50.5% winrate against someone who's examined the mechanics for 5 minutes.

[pingpongsam]

If you're really good at monopoly, you might reach a 52% winrate against someone who only plays casually! And maybe a 50.5% winrate against someone who's examined the mechanics for 5 minutes.

But only the real geniuses among us can increase their odds at Candyland.

[Awaclus]

If you're really good at monopoly, you might reach a 52% winrate against someone who only plays casually! And maybe a 50.5% winrate against someone who's examined the mechanics for 5 minutes.

That highly depends though. If you've mastered the most important skill at Monopoly, which is convincing the other players to let you go first, you can reach a 99.5% win rate against anyone!

[Kuildeous]

If you're really good at monopoly, you might reach a 52% winrate against someone who only plays casually! And maybe a 50.5% winrate against someone who's examined the mechanics for 5 minutes.

That highly depends though. If you've mastered the most important skill at Monopoly, which is convincing the other players to let you go first, you can reach a 99.5% win rate against anyone!

Then there is the ability to convince someone to give you a monopoly in orange for the low, low price of Boardwalk.

[Kuildeous]

All right, I've sacrificed myself for you guys and watched the video.

While it takes a minute or so to get to "Nothing," the intro says that it's about all the things you're doing wrong.  Then it covers basically all the bad house rules people use (including some I'd never heard of, and wondered what people were thinking), tells you the real rules, etc.  It does discuss the reasoning behind not using house rules--every single one of them prolongs the game or increases the chance of fist-fights.  And of course using the real rules to your advantage can really increase your win chances.

Also, fun line (paraphrasing):  "You can sit in jail, and if you're rich enough, you can just continue to do business as usual, much like in real life."

Awesome. I'm going to go watch the video. It sounds interesting.

And I do get a chuckle out of people who insist that you get no money while you're in jail. No, this actually does mirror real life. I would argue that in real life it's not actually a desirable choice, but late in the game, you want to sit in jail for as long as possible.

[silverspawn]

If you're really good at monopoly, you might reach a 52% winrate against someone who only plays casually! And maybe a 50.5% winrate against someone who's examined the mechanics for 5 minutes.

That highly depends though. If you've mastered the most important skill at Monopoly, which is convincing the other players to let you go first, you can reach a 99.5% win rate against anyone!

Getting first certainly doesn't get you anywhere near 99,5%.

[Awaclus]

If you're really good at monopoly, you might reach a 52% winrate against someone who only plays casually! And maybe a 50.5% winrate against someone who's examined the mechanics for 5 minutes.

That highly depends though. If you've mastered the most important skill at Monopoly, which is convincing the other players to let you go first, you can reach a 99.5% win rate against anyone!

Getting first certainly doesn't get you anywhere near 99,5%.

How about something like 90-93%?

In all seriousness though, it's not overly amazing to be first (although it is a very significant advantage), but it super sucks to be last if there are more players.

[pingpongsam]

That highly depends though. If you've mastered the most important skill at Monopoly, which is convincing the other players to let you be the banker, you can reach a 99.5% win rate against anyone!

FTFY

[Joseph2302]

That highly depends though. If you've mastered the most important skill at Monopoly, which is convincing people to play Dominion instead, you can reach a 99.5% win rate against anyone!

FTFY

[Kuildeous]

it super sucks to be last if there are more players.

Yeah, that probably isn't a guaranteed death sentence for you, but you're going to have an uphill battle unless the dice are somehow in your favor.

I suppose if I were to play Monopoly, I'd consider a house rule to help out those going later. Perhaps if you do not own any properties when you take your first turn, you are allowed a number of rerolls equal to the number of players that went before you. These rerolls can only be spent to avoid landing on property that's already bought. If your final reroll puts you on one, then you have to accept it. If a roll of doubles puts you on someone's property and you accept the result, you cannot use a reroll on subsequent rolls that turn.

It's still swingy as hell since you could still just land on income tax or a card that screws you over, but you at least have a chance of not getting too screwed by the people before you.

But I'll probably never see that rule implemented. I'm not opposed to playing Monopoly, but when you hang out with board gamers, they usually suggest playing better games.

[silverspawn]

That highly depends though. If you've mastered the most important skill at Monopoly, which is convincing people to play Dominion instead, you can reach a 99.5% win rate against anyone!

FTFY

I want to see the guy who has 99,5% winrate in dominion against a casual player.

[Kuildeous]

That highly depends though. If you've mastered the most important skill at Monopoly, which is convincing people to play Dominion instead, you can reach a 99.5% win rate against anyone!

FTFY

I want to see the guy who has 99,5% winrate in dominion against a casual player.

That just means that you have a 99.5% chance of winning Monopoly by playing Dominion instead.

The 0.5% comes from those rare moments when you open a Dominion box and find that some asshole stuffed Monopoly in it instead.

[LaLight]

That highly depends though. If you've mastered the most important skill at Monopoly, which is convincing people to play Dominion instead, you can reach a 99.5% win rate against anyone!

FTFY

I want to see the guy who has 99,5% winrate in dominion against a casual player.

That just means that you have a 99.5% chance of winning Monopoly by playing Dominion instead.

The 0.5% comes from those rare moments when you open a Dominion box and find that some asshole stuffed Monopoly in it instead.

This is a good 1st of April joke!

[schadd]

i'll let you explain feminism to me/if you'll let me use your hdtv

[eHalcyon]

[Roadrunner7671]

Wait...

D10-1 is equal to D8

D6+1 is equal to D8

Is a roll of D10-1 as good as a roll of D6+1?

[silverspawn]

Wait...

D10-1 is equal to D8

D6+1 is equal to D8

Is a roll of D10-1 as good as a roll of D6+1?

yup

[Roadrunner7671]

Wait...

D10-1 is equal to D8

D6+1 is equal to D8

Is a roll of D10-1 as good as a roll of D6+1?

yup

That's crazy!

[silverspawn]

no, that's perfectly normal

[pacovf]

Define "equal" and "as good as" first.

[Witherweaver]

Wait...

D10-1 is equal to D8

D6+1 is equal to D8

Is a roll of D10-1 as good as a roll of D6+1?

We taught you how to fish.  We gave you the tools.  Now go catch your fish.

[eHalcyon]

Wait...

D10-1 is equal to D8

D6+1 is equal to D8

Is a roll of D10-1 as good as a roll of D6+1?

We taught you how to fish.  We gave you the tools.  Now go catch your fish.

Go fishing:

Rolled 1d8 : 1, total 1

You feel a nibble and begin reeling.  The specimen is powerful and puts up a fight.  It drags you deep into the depths.  As the water fills your lungs, you see that the beast that defeated you was... a lifeless old boot.

[Kirian]

no, that's perfectly normal

Only if you roll a ton of dice together all at the same time, then consider the limit as the number of dice goes to infinity.

[Witherweaver]

Is there a misconception here that having equal means is a sensible thing to consider as 'equality' of two random variables?  Because that's quite bad.  Simply take X to be a uniform distribution on a discrete space of, say, 1e100 elements and Y to be the uniform distribution on the space {E(X)}.  X and Y have the same mean, but will almost never agree.

[Witherweaver]

If you can match means and variances (that is, matching first moment and second moment), you're doing much better.  If you can match more moments, the distributions are closer.

Basically

E(X) = E(Y)

is weak

E(X^n) = E(Y^n) for all n= 1, 2, ..., N

for a decent size N is much better. 

[Kuildeous]

Yes, cones of shame come in tiny sizes too. She ripped open her incision, and now she has to pay the price.

[liopoil]

If you can match means and variances (that is, matching first moment and second moment), you're doing much better.  If you can match more moments, the distributions are closer.

Basically

E(X) = E(Y)

is weak

E(X^n) = E(Y^n) for all n= 1, 2, ..., N

for a decent size N is much better. 

So, I've never taken a real statistics class, only "AP" Statistics. Even there we still talked about how two distributions can have different spreads, i.e. variance. I suppose this is the second moment, and I looked up how it's defined: Var(x) = E((E(x) - x)^2), which makes sense certainly. This doesn't look like what you wrote here, but I like the idea that you're just talking about how the expectation of the variable to a power is different from the expectation to a power. So then I thought, based on your post, before I saw the above definition, that maybe Var(x) = E(x^2) - E(x)^2, since that is always positive and seems to measure spread. But now I notice:

E((E(x) - x)^2) = E(E(x)^2 - 2x E(x) + x^2) = E(x)^2 - E(2x E(x)) + E(x^2) = E(x^2) - 2 E(x) E(x) + E(x)^2 = E(x^2) - E(x)^2

I think that's pretty neat. Can we define the n-th moment to be E(x^n) - E(x)^n? Wait, but that doesn't work for n = 1 at all. So then how would we define it analogously to the E((E(x) - x)^2) definition of variance? What even is the third moment? Maybe it's something like E(Var(x) - (E(x) - x)^2)), but wait that's zero, so on a whim, maybe we square the inner bit? Then it's:

E((Var(x) - (E(x) - x)^2))^2) = E(Var(x)^2 - 2 Var(x) (E(x) - x)^2 + (E(x) - x)^4) = E((E(x) - x)^4) - Var(x)^2 = E((E(x)^2 - 2x E(x) + x^2)^2) - Var(x)^2

Hmmm, that doesn't really work. Okay, maybe it's E((E(x) - x)^3) = E(E(x)^3 - 3x E(x)^2 + 3x^2 E(x) - x^3), which is E(x)^3 - 3 E(x)^2 E(x) + 3 E(x) E(x^2) - E(x^3) = E(x)^3 - E(x^3) + 3 E(x) Var(x)

I like this because if X and Y have the same mean and variance then the only different term is E(x^n). So is the n-th moment given my E((E(x) - x)^n)? I still don't have an intuitive feel for what it should actually say about the distribution in general, and also this does not work for n = 1.

EDIT: I looked it up, and looks like the n-th moment is indeed E((E(x) - x)^n), neat. Just ignore the first moment I guess. I also learned just now that the third moment measures skewness, which makes sense actually. If E(x) = 0, then the direction of skew is determined by the sign of the third moment I would think. Well, that was a fun distraction

[Witherweaver]

Yes,

Var(X) = E(X^2) - E(X)^2,

which is why I said matching the first two moments is matching mean and var.  (Well, I implied it, I guess.)  Var is 'basically' the same as the second moment, because once you have the second moment, you have the var.  (You've firstly calculated the first moment, of course.)

The nth moment is, by definition, E(X^n).  Well, this is really the 'raw' moment, but generally we say moment to mean raw moment.  But look at var.  It's just shifting the second moment by the mean (squared, so dimensionality works).  SO it's really a measure of the second moment, two, just normalized in some way.  In fact it's called a central moment, because it's the (second) moment about the mean.  (As you say, Var(x) = E((X-E(X))^2).

The third and fourth moments have some intuition.  The third (standardized) moment is called skewness (roughly, measure of how not symmetric it is), and the fourth (standardized) moment is called kurtosis.  This one is hard to understand, but it basically has to do with the tail distribution (how fat is it).  These are not the raw moments, but rather standardized, similar to how the var is (though these are not only shifted, but also normalized by the standard deviation in some way).  See the chart at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moment_(mathematics).

Beyond fourth, it's hard to get much qualitative description.   

[Witherweaver]

Oh, and also see moment generating functions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moment-generating_function

If two random variables have the same moment generating function, they are the same (almost everywhere). 

If the moment generating function is analytical*, then it can be written as its Taylor series.  But the coefficients in the Taylor series are derivatives of the function (at 0), which is (by definition of the moment generating function), the corresponding moment of the variable.  (That's why it's called 'moment generating function'.)  So, if two distribution agree at all moments, E(X^n) = E(Y^n) for all n in N, then they have the same moment generating function, so they are the same.  (As long as everything converges, which it should as long as these expectations exist, or at least in most regular cases.)

*This should actually be the case just by definition of the MGF as m_X(t) = E(e^{t*X}).

[pingpongsam]

Sentry.

Sentry draws first, so doesn't combo with Pearl Diver's topdeck effect!

Unless you play 2 Pearl Divers! 

[Polk5440]

I will interpret.

We've talked about this before, but ...
Dice Dice Math Dice
Dice Math Dice Dice
DIIIIIIICE Math Dice?
Is this how I use math to beat my friends at D&D with dice?

I don't know about D&D, but it is true that...
The expected roll of a D10 minus 1 is equal to the expected roll of a D8. (5.5-1=4.5)
The expected roll of a D6 plus 1 is equal to the expected roll of a D8. (3.5+1=4.5)
The expected roll of a D6 plus 1 is equal to the expected roll of a D10 minus 1. (3.5+1=5.5-1)
But you can't really say that a roll of a D6 plus 1 is "as good as" a roll of D10 minus 1. What "as good as" means depends on the situation!

Deja vu. You should be able to calculate things like this yourself now.

Math Fact: Having equal means is not enough for two random variables to have identical distributions.

Look, I know lots of math.

Rats!

I don't know that much math, but I am learning.

Wow! Look at all this math I know! Way more than you ever need to know.

I jest. 

[silverspawn]

Okay, how do you have such a large avatar? I need to know.

[Polk5440]

Okay, how do you have such a large avatar? I need to know.

It's like I'm cursed with a superpower I don't want. I would prefer the forum to be text only -- stripped of all memes, avatars, and annoying signatures. I turn off as much as I can in preferences. Yet I am the person who gets the largest avatar of them all.

(Actually, I think it's because I selected an Isotropic image from the menu in preferences.)

[Awaclus]

Yeah, the Iso art is larger than anything else you can possibly have as an avatar.

[silverspawn]

That kind of begs the question of why you have an avatar at all.

[Awaclus]

That kind of begs the question of why you have an avatar at all.

http://begthequestion.info/

[silverspawn]

That kind of begs the question of why you have an avatar at all.

http://begthequestion.info/

http://lesswrong.com/lw/nq/feel_the_meaning/

This begs the question

No it doesn't.

http://begthequestion.info/

yes it does, because that's how people use it, and it means what people think it means. It doesn't matter if it originally was meant to be something else

protesting an invevitable trend in words does not make language more exact. It's just pointless.

http://scientiststhesis.tumblr.com/post/41711103568/the-hidden-meaning-of-words

[Watno]

That kind of begs the question of why you have an avatar at all.

http://begthequestion.info/

Why would the people on this site get to decide what begging the question means?

[Polk5440]

That kind of begs the question of why you have an avatar at all.

I was exaggerating to make a joke. I have have avatars and sigs turned off, but don't mind the use of avatars. It was a few people who had offensive images and really annoying sigs a while ago that caused me to turn them off initially and I've never turned them back on.

[Witherweaver]

That kind of begs the question of why you have an avatar at all.

http://begthequestion.info/

Why would the people on this site get to decide what begging the question means?

It really begs the question, doesn't it?

[Witherweaver]

...

In Liopoil's case, it is not way more than he'll ever need to know; it's precisely a subset of what he will need to know

[silverspawn]

That kind of begs the question of why you have an avatar at all.

http://begthequestion.info/

Why would the people on this site get to decide what begging the question means?

It really begs the question, doesn't it?

Yes it does!

[Kirian]

That kind of begs the question of why you have an avatar at all.

http://begthequestion.info/

Why would the people on this site get to decide what begging the question means?

They don't decide, they're merely reminding you of the stance of prescriptivist linguists, and explaining why they side with them rather than with descriptivists on this point.

[Kuildeous]

I will interpret.

...

Your challenge is to post a one-line summary for each of the 2000+ messages in this thread.

[sudgy]

I will interpret.

...

Your challenge is to post a one-line summary for each of the 2000+ messages in this thread.

Or even better: all parts of random stuff.

[ashersky]

I'm randomly sitting next to Mohamed Salah.

[ashersky]

I'm randomly sitting next to Mohamed Salah.

And Francesco Totti just walked in.

[Watno]

If your seeing this, hello Mr Salah

[Awaclus]

A must watch for anyone who's even remotely interested in anything like computer science, neuroscience, quantum mechanics or physics in general.

[Witherweaver]

I will interpret.

...

Your challenge is to post a one-line summary for each of the 2000+ messages in this thread.

More like 7000+.  Random Stuff I and II should be included.

Edit: Or 12000+?  I forgot what they max out at.

[Kuildeous]

I will interpret.

...

Your challenge is to post a one-line summary for each of the 2000+ messages in this thread.

More like 7000+.  Random Stuff I and II should be included.

Edit: Or 12000+?  I forgot what they max out at.

Well, baby steps.

[silverspawn]

Looking Through Eliezer Yudkowsky's Facebook Page...

Anyone who wouldn't step on a puppy for $20 billion has ceased to be human. You have a frontal cortex for a reason, and that reason is being able to step on a puppy for twenty billion dollars.

[schadd]

Looking Through Eliezer Yudkowsky's Facebook Page...

Anyone who wouldn't step on a puppy for $20 billion has ceased to be human. You have a frontal cortex for a reason, and that reason is being able to step on a puppy for twenty billion dollars.

i thought it was the opposite thing. or wait, what part doesn't want you to step on puppies? the amygdala or something?

[Kirian]

Yes, Yudkowski is a bit of an asshole, this is well known.

[Kuildeous]

Clearly, someone who would pay you $20 billion to step on a puppy has some serious issues. He should not be allowed to have $20 billion. You can use that money to buy a death ray and off the guy before he uses his vast riches to entice other people into stepping on puppies.

[schadd]

Clearly, someone who would pay you $20 billion to step on a puppy has some serious issues. He should not be allowed to have $20 billion. You can use that money to buy a death ray and off the guy before he uses his vast riches to entice other people into stepping on puppies.

one might spend $15bn on an advertising campaign to get more opportunities to step on puppies for fun & profit. hey, there's a slogan

[LaLight]

Happy new year from Russia!!!

[Awaclus]

Happy western new year!

[Witherweaver]

I'm coding this example that I've been having countless problems with (some conceptual, some stupid typos, like using the wrong variable), and now I'm getting this behavior where every so often (maybe one in five), a run will produce different numbers.  There is no random, psuedorandom, quasirandom, etc. behavior in the code.  There aren't any raw pointers either, so I don't think accessing memory out of bounds of some structure can occur.  My best guess is that there is some uninitialized variable that is usually something (like not zero) but occasionally something else (like zero), but I don't see it.

[silverspawn]

Whenever something like that happens to me, it's usually because two things are running simultaneously and line up differently.

[Roadrunner7671]

Is there a website/app where I can set up my own Qvist rankings type of thing but not for Dominion? Like just having a head to head battle for lots of things.

[Watno]

Why not make a bracket?

[Roadrunner7671]

Why not make a bracket?

That's actually a good idea, but I want to also rank everything, not just determine a winner, so I'd need a bunch of losers' brackets.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Random question.
Although black is not a color in the sense that there is no wavelength that corresponds to it etc. it is often referred to as a color in everyday speech.
Is it correct to state that one's favorite color is black?

[silverspawn]

the actual meaning of words is defined by what people understand when reading them, so yes.

[schadd]

there was some term that i'm forgetting that you're supposed to use for white & black & the like

[schadd]

there was some term that i'm forgetting that you're supposed to use for white & black & the like

just looked it up, it's "race"

[Awaclus]

I still don't get the concept of having a favorite color.

[LaLight]

I still don't get the concept of having a favorite color.

my favorite color is the one yellow troops in WarCraft 2 had. And all their buildings. It's such a cool yellow! But i don't have favourite color overall. Some shades of purple and purple/yellow mix I think.

[pacovf]

I still don't get the concept of having a favorite color.

I had a problem with that too, but then I started to think of it as in having a favourite polyhedron, but with colours instead.

[Dylan32]

I still don't get the concept of having a favorite color.

I had a problem with that too, but then I started to think of it as in having a favourite polyhedron, but with colours instead.

I failed to understand that as well, but then I considered the similarity between having a favorite polyhedron and having a favorite quark.

[liopoil]

I still don't get the concept of having a favorite color.

I had a problem with that too, but then I started to think of it as in having a favourite polyhedron, but with colours instead.

I failed to understand that as well, but then I considered the similarity between having a favorite polyhedron and having a favorite quark.

That's strange

[gkrieg13]

I still don't get the concept of having a favorite color.

I had a problem with that too, but then I started to think of it as in having a favourite polyhedron, but with colours instead.

I failed to understand that as well, but then I considered the similarity between having a favorite polyhedron and having a favorite quark.

That's strange

You have so much charm

[Dylan32]

I still don't get the concept of having a favorite color.

I had a problem with that too, but then I started to think of it as in having a favourite polyhedron, but with colours instead.

I failed to understand that as well, but then I considered the similarity between having a favorite polyhedron and having a favorite quark.

That's strange

I see what you did there. Have an upvote.

[Axxle]

I still don't get the concept of having a favorite color.

I had a problem with that too, but then I started to think of it as in having a favourite polyhedron, but with colours instead.

I failed to understand that as well, but then I considered the similarity between having a favorite polyhedron and having a favorite quark.

That's strange

You have so much charm

Is that the truth?

[sudgy]

I still don't get the concept of having a favorite color.

I had a problem with that too, but then I started to think of it as in having a favourite polyhedron, but with colours instead.

I failed to understand that as well, but then I considered the similarity between having a favorite polyhedron and having a favorite quark.

That's strange

You have so much charm

I'm going to go up to downtown and will go to a skyscraper to visit all the floors from the bottom to the top.

[gkrieg13]

I still don't get the concept of having a favorite color.

I had a problem with that too, but then I started to think of it as in having a favourite polyhedron, but with colours instead.

I failed to understand that as well, but then I considered the similarity between having a favorite polyhedron and having a favorite quark.

That's strange

You have so much charm

I'm going to go up to downtown and will go to a skyscraper to visit all the floors from the bottom to the top.

Sounds electronofying

[Kirian]

there was some term that i'm forgetting that you're supposed to use for white & black & the like

Hue

[Ichimaru Gin]

So I found this cool website where you can listen to accents from different parts of the world.

https://localingual.com/

[schadd]

So I found this cool website where you can listen to accents from different parts of the world.

https://localingual.com/

the top one in colorado is "shred the gnar, brah!"


he does it very well, too

[Tables]

Today I played the Nintendo Switch. Anyone have any questions about it?

[2.71828.....]

Today I played the Nintendo Switch. Anyone have any questions about it?

Was it as awesome as it appears to be?  What game did you play?

[Tables]

Today I played the Nintendo Switch. Anyone have any questions about it?

Was it as awesome as it appears to be?  What game did you play?

It was pretty awesome. The Joycons feel like they're each more accurate than the Motion Plus Wiimotes were, and you have one in each hand, which is great. The classic controller feels pretty balanced. I didn't play with a Switch console itself but my friend who did said positive things about it.

I played (possibly missing some but I think...):

Arms (5 full battles, once as each character in the demo)
Splatoon 2 (Charger)
Mario Kart 8 Deluxe (Battle mode)
1 2 Switch (Safe Cracker, Ninja Training, Poser, Milk)

There were lots of other games at the event but queues were fairly long (especially for Zelda - they had a LOT of Zelda booths but, long queues + 1 player meant we passed on it).

[scott_pilgrim]

How was Arms?  I can't tell if it's going to be the dumbest game ever or the greatest game ever (or both).

[Tables]

How was Arms?  I can't tell if it's going to be the dumbest game ever or the greatest game ever (or both).

Fun. Really fun. I think a big part of why was the novelty + being fairly equally matched + next to my friend, and I feel like it'd lose some of that if I played it a lot, but at the event, it was a blast.

[ConMan]

Today I played the Nintendo Switch. Anyone have any questions about it?

Hey, me too! I posted my thoughts about it on another forum, I'll go retrieve that post at some point and share it here, too.

[ConMan]

Here we go:

• The Joycon controllers are tiny. Even the Switch is small, but you really notice it when you're holding something that is about 2/3 the length and 1/2 the thickness of an original Wiimote and trying to press buttons on it. It's especially odd that the two sides aren't exactly the same, so there can be some slight alignment adjustments if you swap between them.
• I didn't get to play Zelda (the combination of the demo taking about 20 minutes and everyone else in the building wanting to try it kind of made it tricky), but from what I hear it's pretty, a lot of things feel like a Zelda game, but some things (possibly including combat) don't.
• ARMS is a tech demo, and one with fairly limited replay potential.
• 1, 2, Switch is a bunch of tech demos repurposed into a party game. A few of the minigames are probably "play once and you'll never touch it again", but several of them will be fun to pull out at gatherings and set up impromptu cow milking tournaments, or whatever.
• Speaking of 1, 2, Switch, they weren't kidding about the sensitivity of the rumble - I played both the Safe cracking and Ball counting games and you could feel quite small changes in the pattern of the rumble (Ball counting is definitely one of those games that you'd only play once and go "Woah" at, though).
• Splatoon 2 is Splatoon with more stuff. Fun stuff, but there didn't feel like any radical departures in the demo I played (proper local multiplayer should be good, though).
• Everyone who played Snipperclips thought it was amazingly fun. Apparently it should be an eShop title and will be about $AU30, which I think is a little high but probably not terribly so.
• Mario Kart 8 Deluxe seems fine, but refer back to my comment about the small controller, and apply that to the small controller inside a proportionately small steering wheel. It's theoretically nice that the motion controls are actually good enough to steer with now, but it was still tricky.
• Bomberman is Bomberman. Those who like the games are getting more of what they like, and it will probably be a good intro to the series for people too. It will support up to 8 players in battle mode (possibly on the one console?) with a double-width map, which should make for some good chaotic fun.

I'm guessing that, like with the Wii and Wii U, the first year or so of games is going to be a mix of (a) tech demos elevated to real games and (b) stuff that was being planned for the previous console before being retooled for the new one, so I wouldn't expect to see much in the way of games that really delve into the depths of possibility just yet. The price point is not terrible, though, so we might consider it (especially for Zelda).

[Tables]

ARMS is a tech demo, and one with fairly limited replay potential.

Eh, I dunno. I think it's got a bit of replayability. It feels like it's probably on par with stuff like Pokken, but I doubt it's going to be a smash hit like Splatoon was.

Speaking of 1, 2, Switch, they weren't kidding about the sensitivity of the rumble - I played both the Safe cracking and Ball counting games and you could feel quite small changes in the pattern of the rumble (Ball counting is definitely one of those games that you'd only play once and go "Woah" at, though).

I didn't get to play the ball counting, but the safe game definitely. Really felt surprisingly good.

The price point is not terrible, though, so we might consider it (especially for Zelda).

Hm, really? The big thing putting me off right now is the price. I didn't realise just how expensive it was until I started going through the numbers. For example, suppose I wanted to get the console shortly after launch, with 3 games: ARMS, Zelda and 1-2-Switch, plus an extra set of joycons (roughly equivalent to an extra controller, although sorta like two extra controllers). That would set me back:

£280 for the console
£75 for Joycons
£60 for Zelda (why is Zelda on the Switch 50% more expensive than on the Wii U?)
£40 for 1-2-Switch
£50 for ARMS

For a total of £505. By comparison, I got my Wii U with 3 games and an additional pro controller for about £315, although since it was several years after launch you can probably add about £100 from price drops and promotions. Still though, that's a solid 25% more expensive compared to the Wii U, and people already panned the Wii U for being expensive. I don't know exactly how this compares in Australian Dollars or Freedom Dollars (I mean according to Google £505 = $608 USD but it's not really like that since games are just more expensive here) but price wise, that's the main thing putting me off right now. And this has done nothing to factor in things like the paid online.

Still... overall, it's fun. Right now I'm debating getting Breath of the Wild on the Wii U rather than Switch, because seriously, why does it cost £60 on Switch and £40 on Wii U?

[ConMan]

Well for me, it would be:

$470 for the console
$120 for an extra pair of Joy-Con
$40 if I want a Joy-Con charging station
up to $100 per game (MK8DLX is $80, Zelda BotW is $90, Mario and Splatoon 2 are $100, Has Been Heroes is only $40)

For comparison, a Wii U with 4 games (MK8, Nintendo Land, Sports Connection and an eShop code for SSB) is currently $430, Wiimotes are about $70 each, a Pro controller also about $70, and games are around $70 as well (including BotW). And that's taking into account the fact that this is at the end of the console's life cycle, and I think about the only thing that's changed significantly since launch prices is that you get more games with the Wii U itself. (Google agrees - launch price for the Wii U Deluxe was $430 with nothing included.)

But also, to factor in, a New 3DS XL is $250, with $60 being fairly typical for a top-line new release game. I can't imagine that the Switch will really replace the 3DS as the portable console, but it might eat a little into the time I would otherwise spend on it and hence the games I play on it.

The conversion to GBP is about 2/3rds at the moment - so from some quick calculations the costs aren't that much off what you're talking about, I guess we just have differing ideas of what all that stuff is worth.

ARMS is a tech demo, and one with fairly limited replay potential.

Eh, I dunno. I think it's got a bit of replayability. It feels like it's probably on par with stuff like Pokken, but I doubt it's going to be a smash hit like Splatoon was.

I think it's a bit below Pokken, personally. Besides the lack of a major licence, I didn't feel like there was a huge amount of control available like there is in most popular fighting or shooting games - you pick a character, you pick their left and right weapons, you flail wildly in an attempt to hit your opponent without getting hit yourself. It didn't feel like they were leaving room for, say, fancy combos like in Street Fighter or a large range of weapons like in Splatoon. I guess I might be judging too much from a pre-launch demo, but none of our group really saw it as a game that we'd pay full price for.

[pingpongsam]

People, we have Dominion Online, there's no need to bother with Nintendos.

[ConMan]

You say that, but the upcoming* Switch port of DO is going to be amazing.

* Not actually upcoming.

[Awaclus]

* Not actually upcoming.

It's already out?

[Seprix]

I'm pretty excited for the Switch, personally.

[Ichimaru Gin]

I'm pretty excited for the Switch, personally.

We don't take kindly to optimists 'round these parts...

[Donald X.]

I'm pretty excited for the Switch, personally.

We don't take kindly to optimists 'round these parts...

Well it's not possible to take kindly to anything. It's only negative. I mean try it out. "I take kindly to optimists." See, it's gibberish.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Are you saying we shouldn't use idioms?

Edit: Also "take kindly" can be used in a non-negative fashion...

[Kuildeous]

"I only read eBooks," said Tom kindly.

[Kirian]

"I only read eBooks," said Tom kindly.

Oh, very well done.  My wife loves Tom Swifties.

[Awaclus]

I thought of something cool but I forgot what it was.

EDIT: Oh yeah, now I remember what it was. I was planning to take a shower.

[Kuildeous]

Somebody was asking how to approximate 1% with only six-sided dice.

I was thinking of ways to finagle it, but then I saw someone posted that you stick in a bag 99 white dice and one red die.

I was done. There's no following that.

[theory]

I'm pretty excited for the Switch, personally.

We don't take kindly to optimists 'round these parts...

Well it's not possible to take kindly to anything. It's only negative. I mean try it out. "I take kindly to optimists." See, it's gibberish.

It's like how no one is ever plussed or couth, or gruntled. 

[Kuildeous]

It's like how no one is ever plussed or couth, or gruntled. 

I was gruntled to learn that gruntled is an actual word.

We should use it more often, I feel. I like the image of someone so happy with how things are that they just kind of settle in and gently grunt contentedly.

[Haddock]

I'm pretty excited for the Switch, personally.

We don't take kindly to optimists 'round these parts...

Well it's not possible to take kindly to anything. It's only negative. I mean try it out. "I take kindly to optimists." See, it's gibberish.

It's like how no one is ever plussed or couth, or gruntled.

Or whelmed.

[pingpongsam]

I'm pretty excited for the Switch, personally.

We don't take kindly to optimists 'round these parts...

Well it's not possible to take kindly to anything. It's only negative. I mean try it out. "I take kindly to optimists." See, it's gibberish.

It's like how no one is ever plussed or couth, or gruntled.

Actually, couth is a not wholly unused word in my circles.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Kay look. Any idiom is going to sound like gibberish if you think about it too hard (the other words mentioned aren't even idiomatic).

"take kindly" can be used without the "not"--although it isn't done so as often.
http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/take+kindly+to

[Witherweaver]

[Tables]

Somebody was asking how to approximate 1% with only six-sided dice.

Seems pretty trivial to me. Write out 1% (0.01) in base 6. Roll a dice repeatedly, putting each result after the decimal point, treating 6's as 0's (i.e. first roll is 1/6ths, second is 1/36ths and so on). Repeat until your number is definitively above or below the binary expansion. If below, success (1% of the time) - otherwise if above, fail.

...

Okay maybe trivial isn't quite the right word. You technically also don't need to do the whole base 6 number thing, it's just an easier way to visualise what's going on. Another way to do it is:

Step 1: Roll twice. Double 1's = keep going. Anything else = fail.

Step 2: Roll. 1-2 = success. 3 = keep going. 4+ = fail.

Step 3: Roll. 1 = keep going. 2+ = fail.

Step 4: Roll. 1-5 = success. 6 = keep going.

Step 5: Roll. 1-4 = success. 5 = keep going. 6 = fail.

Step 6: Roll. 1-3 = success. 4 = go to step 2. 6 = fail.

This is equivalent to the above (with the rolls required adjusted for ease of checking), but gives exactly a 1% chance of success. It does have the potential to never finish, but you can just say stop after Step 6 and call it fail if you like and you're still at 1.000% to 4 sf or something like that.

[Donald X.]

"take kindly" can be used without the "not"--although it isn't done so as often.
http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/take+kindly+to

You can also find "sitting in the catbird seat" in an idiom dictionary, and point at it in a James Thurber story from before any of us were born; that won't magically turn it into something people actually say in 2017.

It's a living language! And taking kindly to things has gone the way of the snows of yesteryear.

[Ichimaru Gin]

"take kindly" can be used without the "not"--although it isn't done so as often.
http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/take+kindly+to

You can also find "sitting in the catbird seat" in an idiom dictionary, and point at it in a James Thurber story from before any of us were born; that won't magically turn it into something people actually say in 2017.

It's a living language! And taking kindly to things has gone the way of the snows of yesteryear.

Sure. Then again I didn't use the positive form.
However, just because you and I don't use a particular phrase doesn't mean there aren't locales where it is still in use. "Don't take kindly" is still used today in certain parts of the United States.

I can admit that the non-negative form has virtually fallen out of the vernacular; however, I've lived my whole life on the West Coast. Maybe I'd answer differently if I lived somewhere else.
I just don't think one can call something that's still in a current dictionary "gibberish".

Plus it's fun to bring back old phrases sometimes. There are lots of words in dictionaries that are not used by the general population, but that doesn't render them meaningless.

But maybe I'm alone in thinking this way.

[Ichimaru Gin]

My point is that the average person knows the general meaning of "take kindly" and "don't take kindly".

You might be thought odd for using them, but people would still know what you meant. Not so if you were speaking actual gibberish--or Middle English.
I'm not sure why this is a disputed statement.

If I thought I was wrong here, I would admit it.

[scott_pilgrim]

Personally, I think making up your own idioms is as fun as a tickle fight with a baby panda.

[ConMan]

Sure, but getting other people to use them is like rolling an armadillo uphill.

[Kirian]

Personally, I think making up your own idioms is as fun as a tickle fight with a baby panda.

Sure, but getting other people to use them is like rolling an armadillo uphill.

Those are similes, not idioms.

Buncha idioms in here, I tell ya.

[pacovf]

...and now Dr McNinja is over

So long, and thank you for being one of the best things on the Internet.

[Kirian]

...and now Dr McNinja is over

So long, and thank you for being one of the best things on the Internet.

I feel bad that I lost track of it about... 3-4 years ago?  It really was awesome though.

[Awaclus]

Is it common in English for people to refer to kilocalories as just calories?

[Donald X.]

Is it common in English for people to refer to kilocalories as just calories?

This is my first encounter with the term "kilocalories."

[Dylan32]

Is it common in English for people to refer to kilocalories as just calories?

Yes when discussing food. It is also capitalized "Calories" when referring to kilocalories as opposed to lowercase "calories", which is real calories.  I don't know why it happened, I just know that's how it is. I'm pretty sure the only times I've ever heard the word kilocalories used was in science classes.

*edit* The capitalization use is formally correct, but don't count on people actually using it correctly...

[Donald X.]

However, just because you and I don't use a particular phrase doesn't mean there aren't locales where it is still in use. "Don't take kindly" is still used today in certain parts of the United States.

"Don't take kindly" is in fact in use. Not a thing being contested.

I just don't think one can call something that's still in a current dictionary "gibberish".

You totally can, if your goal is merely to communicate clearly, rather than to try to communicate using computer code.

Plus it's fun to bring back old phrases sometimes. There are lots of words in dictionaries that are not used by the general population, but that doesn't render them meaningless.

Your post (not the quoted post) picked apart my humorous observation. I mean. Can't you just not chuckle and move on?

[Kirian]

Is it common in English for people to refer to kilocalories as just calories?

Basically what Dylan said above.  I have no clue how it happened, nor do I understand why we don't all just use kJ or MJ like civilized people.  Yes, this Big Mac has 3.2 MJ.  That's most of your daily allowance of 8.5 MJ.

[Kirian]

Is it common in English for people to refer to kilocalories as just calories?

Basically what Dylan said above.  I have no clue how it happened, nor do I understand why we don't all just use kJ or MJ like civilized people.  Yes, this Big Mac has 3.2 MJ.  That's most of your daily allowance of 8.5 MJ.

(Obviously this is metabolic energy.  Complete mass conversion would be a bit larger.)

[Awaclus]

Yes, this Big Mac has 3.2 MJ.  That's most of your daily allowance of 8.5 MJ.

8.5 MJ? Man, that's not anywhere near enough for an adult male.

[Kirian]

Yes, this Big Mac has 3.2 MJ.  That's most of your daily allowance of 8.5 MJ.

8.5 MJ? Man, that's not anywhere near enough for an adult male.

Not sure if serious...

[Kirian]

On a vaguely related note, since you take in an average of around 8.5 MJ per day, and there are close to 85 ks in a day, you radiate about as much energy as a 100 W light bulb.

[Awaclus]

Yes, this Big Mac has 3.2 MJ.  That's most of your daily allowance of 8.5 MJ.

8.5 MJ? Man, that's not anywhere near enough for an adult male.

Not sure if serious...

Usually I eat at least 10 MJ and up to something like 16 MJ every day and I'm 183 cm tall, I weigh 61 kg, my waist circumference is 65 cm, and I haven't measured it but if I grab my wrist with the other hand, my thumb touches my little finger. If I ate only 8.5 MJ a day, I would probably start to look pretty horrible pretty soon.

[Kirian]

Yes, this Big Mac has 3.2 MJ.  That's most of your daily allowance of 8.5 MJ.

8.5 MJ? Man, that's not anywhere near enough for an adult male.

Not sure if serious...

Usually I eat at least 10 MJ and up to something like 16 MJ every day and I'm 183 cm tall, I weigh 61 kg, my waist circumference is 65 cm, and I haven't measured it but if I grab my wrist with the other hand, my thumb touches my little finger. If I ate only 8.5 MJ a day, I would probably start to look pretty horrible pretty soon.

Um.

You live somewhere with good healthcare, right?

Unless you're extremely active, like lifting and running every day, you should see a doctor.  That sounds like a thyroid problem.

[Awaclus]

Um.

You live somewhere with good healthcare, right?

Unless you're extremely active, like lifting and running every day, you should see a doctor.  That sounds like a thyroid problem.

I don't think that "lifting and running every day" counts as "extremely active". Rather, that sounds pretty normal to me, and if you're not getting any kind of exercise at all, then I would call that being extremely inactive, although I suppose you could get away with just 8.5 MJ a day in that case.

But yeah, I was in the military just a while ago and I've been maintaining and further developing my physical shape since then.

[Watno]

It's definitely a common thing to do in German.

[Ichimaru Gin]

However, just because you and I don't use a particular phrase doesn't mean there aren't locales where it is still in use. "Don't take kindly" is still used today in certain parts of the United States.

"Don't take kindly" is in fact in use. Not a thing being contested.

I just don't think one can call something that's still in a current dictionary "gibberish".

You totally can, if your goal is merely to communicate clearly, rather than to try to communicate using computer code.

Plus it's fun to bring back old phrases sometimes. There are lots of words in dictionaries that are not used by the general population, but that doesn't render them meaningless.

Your post (not the quoted post) picked apart my humorous observation. I mean. Can't you just not chuckle and move on?

I'm sorry. I think I misunderstood the spirit of what you were getting at (internet being what it is and all).
I have a hard time telling when people are joking or being serious.

[Witherweaver]

However, just because you and I don't use a particular phrase doesn't mean there aren't locales where it is still in use. "Don't take kindly" is still used today in certain parts of the United States.

"Don't take kindly" is in fact in use. Not a thing being contested.

I just don't think one can call something that's still in a current dictionary "gibberish".

You totally can, if your goal is merely to communicate clearly, rather than to try to communicate using computer code.

Plus it's fun to bring back old phrases sometimes. There are lots of words in dictionaries that are not used by the general population, but that doesn't render them meaningless.

Your post (not the quoted post) picked apart my humorous observation. I mean. Can't you just not chuckle and move on?

I'm sorry. I think I misunderstood the spirit of what you were getting at (internet being what it is and all).
I have a hard time telling when people are joking or being serious.

I.e., we don't take kindly to humorous observations around here.

[Kirian]

I don't think that "lifting and running every day" counts as "extremely active".

If you're lifting and running enough to burn through an extra 5 MJ average of food daily, that's about 2.5-3 hours of exercise daily... I think most people would call that "extremely active."

if you're not getting any kind of exercise at all, then I would call that being extremely inactive, although I suppose you could get away with just 8.5 MJ a day in that case.

Really, a mostly inactive adult male (yeah, I'll cop to that) should be closer to 6 MJ (1500 kcal).

[Witherweaver]

Well it depends on weight, and body composition.  I'm closer to about 2000-2200 kcal, before taking into account exercise.

[Awaclus]

If you're lifting and running enough to burn through an extra 5 MJ average of food daily, that's about 2.5-3 hours of exercise daily...

Isn't that pretty normal though?

[pacovf]

Most people simply don't have that much time.

[pingpongsam]

I get about 8 hours of hard exercise per week. I am very fit and strong for my size as a result. Out of the many, many people I know I would say I am towards the top 2% in terms of time spent exercising hard. The only ones I know who do more than that are the people I see at the gym who are going every single day. One of the big issues with going as hard as I do is recovering. It's simply not sustainable to do what I do daily.

[Witherweaver]

I do lifting three days a week, including warm-up/stretching, it's about two hours each session.  On top of that I play volleyball one or two days; matches are about an hour, sometimes there is more than one match.  Once or twice a month I do tournaments, which is an all-day thing that usually includes about five matches. 

Social obligations and extra volleyball mean less time in the gym.

Also I probably do more walking throughout the day than the standard, as I live in Manhattan.

On average, I'd say I get ~10 hours of exercise a week.  Some weeks are harder, some I need to tone down because of various pain.  I've found BCAA and Creatine help a lot in muscle recover, and joint supplements/fish oil can be helpful as well.

[pingpongsam]

I should probably add that I will be 39 this year, so recovery doesn't come nearly as easy as it used to.

[Seprix]

I.e., we don't take kindly to humorous observations around here.

Hey, Droid! We don't serve your kind here!

[schadd]

http://www.limerickmaker.com/

[Awaclus]

http://www.limerickmaker.com/

I like to think that you wrote all of the lines with no capitalization.

[Kirian]

If you're lifting and running enough to burn through an extra 5 MJ average of food daily, that's about 2.5-3 hours of exercise daily...

Isn't that pretty normal though?

No, that's not normal at all.  I know people who run marathons; they train 60 to 90 minutes a day.  I know people who go to the gym an hour a day.  These are 99th percentile exercisers.

[Awaclus]

No, that's not normal at all.  I know people who run marathons; they train 60 to 90 minutes a day.  I know people who go to the gym an hour a day.  These are 99th percentile exercisers.

I mean, they might train for that long, but then there's all the walking and carrying things around and such things that you normally do every day even if you're not trying to train.

[silverspawn]

On another one-life pokemon run... this time I made the top 4, after losing two runs there. But I still lost half my party >_<

RIP Rainbow (Aerodactyl) (after I was lucky enough to have a female one ;_; and invested four TMs in her ;____;)
RIP h. Sparrow (Articuno) (one-hitted by a rock move, RIP master ball)

[sudgy]

So...  Anyone have advice on how to fully shuffle a deck of 1500 cards?

[McGarnacle]

So...  Anyone have advice on how to fully shuffle a deck of 1500 cards?

Do a magic the gathering shuffle.

[gkrieg13]

So...  Anyone have advice on how to fully shuffle a deck of 1500 cards?

Throw them up in the air and then collect them? 

Kind of related to this, I had a professor once who needed to distribute a few papers through a 150 person classroom.  He took the fat stack of papers and threw it as hard as he could, and it was by far the fastest way to distribute papers to that many students.

[sudgy]

So...  Anyone have advice on how to fully shuffle a deck of 1500 cards?

Throw them up in the air and then collect them? 

Kind of related to this, I had a professor once who needed to distribute a few papers through a 150 person classroom.  He took the fat stack of papers and threw it as hard as he could, and it was by far the fastest way to distribute papers to that many students.

I feel like you're underestimating how big of a pile that is...  I don't have any space big enough to do this without risk of bending or losing cards.  If I had a gym at my disposal, then maybe.

[silverspawn]

If you are okay with the cards being very mildly damaged, then put them on the largest surface area you have available and uhh do the children-shuffle thing... somehow it's hard to describe the technique. Which is actually the most effective way to shuffle cards.

If they are valuable, like MTG cards, well then you have to divide them into a lot of piles, shuffle them individually, and then merge them. That would take a lot longer.

[gkrieg13]

If you are okay with the cards being very mildly damaged, then put them on the largest surface area you have available and uhh do the children-shuffle thing... somehow it's hard to describe the technique. Which is actually the most effective way to shuffle cards.

If they are valuable, like MTG cards, well then you have to divide them into a lot of piles, shuffle them individually, and then merge them. That would take a lot longer.

I think it is called the scramble shuffle?  Or some people call it the smooshing method.

[Kirian]

If you are okay with the cards being very mildly damaged, then put them on the largest surface area you have available and uhh do the children-shuffle thing... somehow it's hard to describe the technique. Which is actually the most effective way to shuffle cards.

If they are valuable, like MTG cards, well then you have to divide them into a lot of piles, shuffle them individually, and then merge them. That would take a lot longer.

I think it is called the scramble shuffle?  Or some people call it the smooshing method.

Nah, the smooshing method/mash shuffle is similar to a riffle shuffle but without the bending.  It also requires sleeved cards.

The reality is you need to separate those 1500 into 15 stacks of 100 or so, shuffle each stack thoroughly, move half of each stack to the next stack, shuffle thoroughly, repeat, um, 13 more times, then stack the piles together.

Or get a casino shuffler, though even those likely can't do more than ~500.

Can I ask what sort of game this is?  Or are you creating a Battle of Wits deck?

[gkrieg13]

If you are okay with the cards being very mildly damaged, then put them on the largest surface area you have available and uhh do the children-shuffle thing... somehow it's hard to describe the technique. Which is actually the most effective way to shuffle cards.

If they are valuable, like MTG cards, well then you have to divide them into a lot of piles, shuffle them individually, and then merge them. That would take a lot longer.

I think it is called the scramble shuffle?  Or some people call it the smooshing method.

Nah, the smooshing method/mash shuffle is similar to a riffle shuffle but without the bending.  It also requires sleeved cards.

The reality is you need to separate those 1500 into 15 stacks of 100 or so, shuffle each stack thoroughly, move half of each stack to the next stack, shuffle thoroughly, repeat, um, 13 more times, then stack the piles together.

Or get a casino shuffler, though even those likely can't do more than ~500.

Can I ask what sort of game this is?  Or are you creating a Battle of Wits deck?

I always thought that the mash shuffle was like the riffle shuffle, but the smooshing method was shuffling the cards like a five year old (or me when I am playing dominion with not very many cards.

[sudgy]

It's a homemade card game.  We cut eight cards out of a normal piece of paper, and we've made a lot over the years.  I do have them sleeved, for what it's worth.

The problem with the smooshing method is that I still think there's not enough space anywhere.  I've noticed that if you don't have enough space it doesn't shuffle all that well.

My current idea is getting a bunch of random numbers and using them to assign each card to a random pile (like one person just yelling out "Three! Seventeen! Eight!" while another person has the deck), and then shuffling the individual piles.

[Axxle]

I think that's also called the Wash shuffle, where you basically scatter the cards on the table and shuffle them like dominoes.

How random do you need it? My thought is:

1) split the cards into manageable piles (let's say 10 piles of 150)

2) riffle shuffle each to sufficient randomness (8 times I think for those sized piles)

3) reseed the piles (split each pile in tenths and make new piles from each old pile)

4) repeat steps 3-4 a number of times equal to the original number of decks (so 10 times)

That's like 800 riffle shuffles so might be overkill, but I think it's correct. My concern is with the number of repeats, but if I imagine each starting subdeck as completely homogenous and distinct, I think it takes that many iterations to work.





Alternatively to be absolutely certain just roll 1499 dice of decreasing value.

[gkrieg13]

I guess it also depends on how shuffled you need them.  If you could, another idea would be to just have a RNG tell you which card to pick from the stack.

So maybe have 20 stacks or something, and just pick a random stack, then a random card from that stack.

[Axxle]

I guess it also depends on how shuffled you need them.  If you could, another idea would be to just have a RNG tell you which card to pick from the stack.

So maybe have 20 stacks or something, and just pick a random stack, then a random card from that stack.

That's pretty interesting, split the deck into 20, riffle shuffles each, number them, and then roll a d20 each time you need to draw. No need to choose a random card if that deck is already shuffled

[silverspawn]

where you basically scatter the cards on the table and shuffle them like dominoes.

beautiful description!

[Witherweaver]

Just get bigger hands and riffle shuffle!

[Kuildeous]

I think that's also called the Wash shuffle, where you basically scatter the cards on the table and shuffle them like dominoes.

I thought the Wash shuffle is where you randomly stick a spear and hope to get what you want.

[silverspawn]

Does an egg from an evolution of Eevee hold an Eevee or that evolution?

[pacovf]

Don't eggs always contain the earliest form of a Pokemon?

[Awaclus]

Don't eggs always contain the earliest form of a Pokemon?

Most eggs I've seen have just contained a bunch of white and yellow stuff, no Pokemons.

[Witherweaver]

Don't eggs always contain the earliest form of a Pokemon?

Along with protein and healthy fats.

[Kirian]

Don't eggs always contain the earliest form of a Pokemon?

Along with protein and healthy fats.

And lipoproteins, which are amazing for a bunch of cooking and baking applications.

[silverspawn]

Don't eggs always contain the earliest form of a Pokemon?

I hope so! Otherwise I made a huge mistake in evolving my Eevee. I didn't know there were the possibility of breeding in firered.

[pacovf]

Don't eggs always contain the earliest form of a Pokemon?

Most eggs I've seen have just contained a bunch of white and yellow stuff, no Pokemons.

Lucky you. You can't imagine how annoying it is to want to eat an omelette just to find yourself trying to contain a Lapras trashing out your kitchen.

[silverspawn]

Lucky you. You can't imagine how annoying it is to want to eat an omelette just to find yourself trying to contain a Lapras trashing out your kitchen.

how did you know that the egg I just got 10 seconds ago contains a Lapras? :-O

[Kuildeous]

Don't eggs always contain the earliest form of a Pokemon?

Most eggs I've seen have just contained a bunch of white and yellow stuff, no Pokemons.

That's because you killed it.

You monster.

[pacovf]

Lucky you. You can't imagine how annoying it is to want to eat an omelette just to find yourself trying to contain a Lapras trashing out your kitchen.

how did you know that the egg I just got 10 seconds ago contains a Lapras? :-O

Time travel.

But mostly, Lapras is a large pokemon that doesn't have pre-evolutions, which made the joke funnier.

[sudgy]

In other news, the quantum effects from Random Stuff Part I have returned.  We might need a new thread.

[pacovf]

Can you describe those effects, or do they collapse when observed?

[Witherweaver]

Don't eggs always contain the earliest form of a Pokemon?

Most eggs I've seen have just contained a bunch of white and yellow stuff, no Pokemons.

That's because you killed it.

You monster.

Pikachu, I eat you!

[singletee]

More disturbing is the fact that every Kangaskhan is born with a baby already in her pouch.

[Awaclus]

In other news, the quantum effects from Random Stuff Part I have returned.  We might need a new thread.

Holy crap, you're right. Spooky.

[pacovf]

More disturbing is the fact that every Kangaskhan is born with a baby already in her pouch.

It's Kangaroos all the way down.

[sudgy]

Can you describe those effects, or do they collapse when observed?

When you try to go to the new replies, you always go one below the one you were supposed to.

[Kuildeous]

I've been experiencing that for a while now. I wonder if it's related to how many messages you see on a page (mine is set to 25).

But I'm all for starting a new thread. I haven't had reason to view this thread in its entirety on one page, but it's just a matter of time.

[2.71828.....]

Don't eggs always contain the earliest form of a Pokemon?

I hope so! Otherwise I made a huge mistake in evolving my Eevee. I didn't know there were the possibility of breeding in firered.

You have to beat the elite 4 the first time and get to four island.

[silverspawn]

Yeah, I know – I just got there. I just didn't know when I evolved the Eevee.

[Polk5440]

I haven't had reason to view this thread in its entirety on one page, but it's just a matter of time.

I have. I was searching for f.ds high scores for 2048. I found it in one of the earlier Random Stuff threads (was it really that long ago?). I recently achieved a high score of 120,424. Not surprisingly, I had indeed fallen short of Stef's high score.

[LastFootnote]

Don't eggs always contain the earliest form of a Pokemon?

Not always. At least prior to Gen VII, certain specific Pokémon will only hatch their "baby" form if the parent holds a certain kind of incense while breeding. Not sure if that's still the case in Gen VII.

But any (female) Eevee evolution should breed only Eevees.

[Awaclus]

But any (female) Eevee evolution should breed only Eevees.

I thought Eevee was a guy.

[LastFootnote]

But any (female) Eevee evolution should breed only Eevees.

I thought Eevee was a guy.

You learn something new every day. Well I do, anyway. For all I know, you might sometimes sleep through entire days.

[Awaclus]

But any (female) Eevee evolution should breed only Eevees.

I thought Eevee was a guy.

You learn something new every day. Well I do, anyway. For all I know, you might sometimes sleep through entire days.

I do in fact, I'm just about to recover from fixing my sleep schedule by moving it forwards.

[silverspawn]

I already knew that, although I'm surprised you still have those habits after being in the military for months.

[Awaclus]

I already knew that, although I'm surprised you still have those habits after being in the military for months.

Well, the military training involves a lot of staying up at night and sleeping during the day (or sometimes just staying up night without really sleeping much at all) because in a real war you would need to have some people awake 24/7 and the training tries to simulate real war as realistically as possible, especially later on, and even later on there's nothing to do so you can watch movies and play games all night and sleep during the day, so it wasn't that big of a difference really.

[silverspawn]

Ah, interesting. I had the false idea that you always have to get up at the same time every morning with no exceptions.

[Awaclus]

Ah, interesting. I had the false idea that you always have to get up at the same time every morning with no exceptions.

That's only true at the barracks. When you're in the forest, you still have to wake up at certain times but those times could be something like wake up at 2 a.m. and you can go back to sleep at 5 a.m. (and then your friend would wake up and stay awake until 8, etc) and other than that you just need to wake up whenever the "enemies" attack, or something. At the barracks, we always had this morning routine thing and then usually there was some sort of training or lectures after breakfast but if there wasn't (which was the case a lot of the time during the last month), you could just go back to sleep.

[silverspawn]

In other news, I died by challenging a random trainer in the Trainer Tower. I thought it would be easy, but that wasn't so.

[popsofctown]

Does anyone know Japanese? There's a deckbuilder themed around PAD, a video game I love, but only in Japanese.  Couldnt find a translation resource and thus havent ordered it

[ConMan]

Does anyone know Japanese? There's a deckbuilder themed around PAD, a video game I love, but only in Japanese.  Couldnt find a translation resource and thus havent ordered it

I can roughly follow conversations in Japanese if I don't lose track of the topic, and given an hour or so I can make sense of a paragraph of text. So yes, but not well enough to help you, sorry.

[popsofctown]

If you wanted to be humane to my feelings you would have presented the contents of that post in reverse order.

[Awaclus]

Does anyone know Japanese?

I'm pretty sure the answer is yes.

[Ichimaru Gin]

I'm in first-year Japanese right now. Not good enough yet to translate anything complex I'm afraid 

[ashersky]

I do.

[ashersky]

I do.

Although, to translate a whole game?  Maybe.  How big is it?

[Awaclus]

I do.

I knew it!

[eHalcyon]

[Kuildeous]

He paid for that car by selling four Black Lotus cards.

[GendoIkari]

Is it common in English for people to refer to kilocalories as just calories?

Very. We don't use the term kilocalories at all really, as shown by Donald X's reply. I learned a while back that when our packaging says "calories", it really means "kilocalories", so this wasn't my first encounter.

[silverspawn]

There is this supposed paradox:

- An organizer announces there is going to be a fire alarm happening at school
- The fire alarm will happen over the course of the next week
- It is guaranteed that students will not know on which day the firealarm is going to happen until it does

Say the week goes from Monday to Sunday. Since students can't know the day, it can't wait until Sunday, because then they'd know it to be today. So Sunday is out. Since students can't know the day, it can't wait until Saturday, because then they'd know it to be today, as Sunday is impossible. So Saturday is out. Repeat. It can't happen at all. Yet if it happens on Thursday, no-one will have known that it would.

Is there a name for this? I was told it in German over a decade ago and haven't found it on the Internet.

[SpaceAnemone]

Say the week goes from Monday to Sunday.

I got stuck at this part :-(

[singletee]

There is this supposed paradox:

- An organizer announces there is going to be a fire alarm happening at school
- The fire alarm will happen over the course of the next week
- It is guaranteed that students will not know on which day the firealarm is going to happen until it does

Say the week goes from Monday to Sunday. Since students can't know the day, it can't wait until Sunday, because then they'd know it to be today. So Sunday is out. Since students can't know the day, it can't wait until Saturday, because then they'd know it to be today, as Sunday is impossible. So Saturday is out. Repeat. It can't happen at all. Yet if it happens on Thursday, no-one will have known that it would.

Is there a name for this? I was told it in German over a decade ago and haven't found it on the Internet.

This is the Unexpected Hanging Paradox.

[pingpongsam]

Well, that is one of the dumbest paradoxes I've ever read up on. It's just willfully ignorant.

[Awaclus]

Well, that is one of the dumbest paradoxes I've ever read up on. It's just willfully ignorant.

What do you mean? Saying that something is "just willfully ignorant" doesn't really hold much substance.

[silverspawn]

This is the Unexpected Hanging Paradox.

Thanks!

Well, that is one of the dumbest paradoxes I've ever read up on. It's just willfully ignorant.

I thoguht it was one of the harder paradoxes to solve that I've heard (though I believe I've solved it).

[Kuildeous]

To properly solve it, you hang a student at 4:47 AM on Wednesday, pull the fire alarm, and then shout, "Surprise, motherfuckers!"

Guaranteed win.

[schadd]

okay, so, all we know is that it we won't know what day it happens on. so, uh, it can't happen on sunday, because then we would go through each day of the week and then when it gets to sunday we'd be like "it's gotta be today." so it can't be sunday. and so i guess it couldn't be saturday either, by, uh, induction? does that make sen- BINGBINGBINGBING

[schadd]

dang, ninja'd a little bit

[pingpongsam]

Well, that is one of the dumbest paradoxes I've ever read up on. It's just willfully ignorant.

What do you mean? Saying that something is "just willfully ignorant" doesn't really hold much substance.

The deduction that it cannot happen on Friday is logically sound. The following inferences about preceding days, however, are just logical leaps that willfully ignore the reality that anytime between now and Thursday is when it will happen and thus that is the range along which the surprise will occur. That you can remove Friday from the pool does not mean you get to reevaluate the pool iteratively afterwards.

[pingpongsam]

Here's my favorite paradox:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kavka's_toxin_puzzle

[Watno]

That you can remove Friday from the pool does not mean you get to reevaluate the pool iteratively afterwards.

Why not?

[pingpongsam]

That you can remove Friday from the pool does not mean you get to reevaluate the pool iteratively afterwards.

Why not?

I mean you can but it won't stop them from hanging your ass on Wednesday. The only day that can logically be excluded from the potential execution days is Friday because of the original line of reasoning. Beyond that you are introducing an artificial element to the deduction process. It's artificial in the sense that the only respect given to it is your own mind and it has no bearing on outside operators. Considering that the end game is execution there's no real imperative for the executioner to do it before Friday but we will presume honesty from that party.

[silverspawn]

If you assume that the statement "you won't know which day" is unquestionably true, I don't think what you said holds. On Thursday morning, you know that it has to be today. It has to. It can't logically be tomorrow.

[pingpongsam]

If you assume that the statement "you won't know which day" is unquestionably true, I don't think what you said holds. On Thursday morning, you know that it has to be today. It has to. It can't logically be tomorrow.

Except they could do on Friday just to prove you wrong. That's my whole point, you can't use your logical willpower to override reality. But I do better see what you're saying. I was taking the paradox to occur strictly at the point of declaration. That is, when the doomed heard the information he could only logically remove Friday as a possibility and then expect to die any day prior.

[pacovf]

It is too soon to popcorn.gif?

[pingpongsam]

If you assume that the statement "you won't know which day" is unquestionably true, I don't think what you said holds. On Thursday morning, you know that it has to be today. It has to. It can't logically be tomorrow.

See, I think this falls apart if you substitute Wednesday for Thursday.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

It is too soon to popcorn.gif?

Well if you're going to post popcorn.gif sometime this week, but want to wait until people won't expect it...

[GendoIkari]

Definitely one of my favorite paradoxes. I don't think there's an "easy solution".

[Titandrake]

The resolution that works for me is:

- We claim it's guaranteed that a fire alarm happens.
- We claim it's guaranteed it will be a surprise.
- Through logical deduction we can argue that if the 2nd statement is true, the 1st statement cannot always be true.
- So therefore, the original two claims were already inconsistent - they can't both be true at once.

The problem comes when you assume that because the original system was inconsistent, the 1st statement must be false. At the point you prove inconsistency, all bets are off, because you can prove anything you want from a contradiction. You can prove a fire alarm can't happen, and you can also prove a fire alarm can happen.

Suppose we instead concluded that each statement may or may not be true. Then, even on the last day of the week, we don't know if a fire alarm will happen or not. So if it does, it'll be a surprise. And if it doesn't, then well, I guess the 2nd statement resolved to false.

[silverspawn]

The resolution that works for me is:

- We claim it's guaranteed that a fire alarm happens.
- We claim it's guaranteed it will be a surprise.
- Through logical deduction we can argue that if the 2nd statement is true, the 1st statement cannot always be true.
- So therefore, the original two claims were already inconsistent - they can't both be true at once.

Yup, that's almost exactly what I thought, too. We start with an assumption and prove a contradiction. No paradox there, it just means the assumption was false. I find that to be satisfying.

[ashersky]

I had something random to mention.  I've forgotten it.

[Awaclus]

I had something random to mention.  I've forgotten it.

By any chance, were you going to take a shower?

I thought of something cool but I forgot what it was.

EDIT: Oh yeah, now I remember what it was. I was planning to take a shower.

[Kirian]

I had something random to mention.  I've forgotten it.

By any chance, were you going to take a shower?

I thought of something cool but I forgot what it was.

EDIT: Oh yeah, now I remember what it was. I was planning to take a shower.

I'm planning to take a shower one day this week, but it'll be a surprise to everyone here which day that is.

[Awaclus]

I'm planning to take a shower one day this week, but it'll be a surprise to everyone here which day that is.

I'm more surprised by the fact that you're only going to take one shower this week.

[singletee]

All this talk of weeks reminds me of something. Everyone who gets into arguments on the internet should appreciate this.

[Witherweaver]

All this talk of weeks reminds me of something. Everyone who gets into arguments on the internet should appreciate this.

[pingpongsam]

I read that site often enough to know that thread because it's a recurring meme on the site at this point (akin to blue dogs or bombs, here).

[UmbrageOfSnow]

Eight days a week I smeeeellllll you
Eight days a week is not enough to shower

[Awaclus]

All this talk of weeks reminds me of something. Everyone who gets into arguments on the internet should appreciate this.

My favorite argument on the Internet must be the thread from MTGSalvation where OP thought that a jitte was a hand, because the card art from Umezawa's Jitte depicts a hand (as well as a weapon that the hand is holding).

[Roadrunner7671]

Oml stands for oh my lord, right?

[Awaclus]

Oml stands for oh my lord, right?

No, it stands for zero milliliters.

[Seprix]

Arguing over the internet is one of the most pointless things anybody can possibly do, and it feels good to have that detached superiority without seeing the emotional damage it does to others. Other people who are not related to the engagement read that and think, "no thanks." And there is a damage done. When the damage becomes too great, most of the people who just joined because "hey Dominion is fun and let's play together" are going to leave (probably for the Dominion Discord Server), and then eventually that's the end of f.ds as we know it.

I'm not joking. With the amount of pointless argumentative drama going on and a viable alternative in the Dominion Discord Server (Reddit's Dominion forum is not built to have a community as much as it is built to simply relay news), f.ds is simply going to be a thing of the past unless something changes.

It's one thing to have an argument, and it's another thing entirely to be a dick whilst arguing a point. If you're being a dick, I implore you to stop it. Being anonymous on the internet does not mean freedom from consequences.

[Kirian]

Arguing over the internet is one of the most pointless things anybody can possibly do, and it feels good to have that detached superiority without seeing the emotional damage it does to others. Other people who are not related to the engagement read that and think, "no thanks." And there is a damage done. When the damage becomes too great, most of the people who just joined because "hey Dominion is fun and let's play together" are going to leave (probably for the Dominion Discord Server), and then eventually that's the end of f.ds as we know it.

I'm not joking. With the amount of pointless argumentative drama going on and a viable alternative in the Dominion Discord Server (Reddit's Dominion forum is not built to have a community as much as it is built to simply relay news), f.ds is simply going to be a thing of the past unless something changes.

It's one thing to have an argument, and it's another thing entirely to be a dick whilst arguing a point. If you're being a dick, I implore you to stop it. Being anonymous on the internet does not mean freedom from consequences.

...

...

I was in several guilds during my time playing WOW.  I know all about forum drama.  One of my guild leaders even had the "We Know Drama" logo that TBS (or TNT?) used for a while as her forum signature.

I have seen almost none of that here.  There's an instance here and there, and a total troll bombs us about once a year... but other than that I have no clue what you're talking about.  Could you elaborate?  Is this a mafia thing (which I ignore) or an RPS thing (which is there literally to have thar sort of drama)?

[Awaclus]

Arguing over the internet is one of the most pointless things anybody can possibly do

It's not as pointless as telling people to stop arguing over the Internet.

[pacovf]

Arguing over the internet is one of the most pointless things anybody can possibly do, and it feels good to have that detached superiority without seeing the emotional damage it does to others. Other people who are not related to the engagement read that and think, "no thanks." And there is a damage done. When the damage becomes too great, most of the people who just joined because "hey Dominion is fun and let's play together" are going to leave (probably for the Dominion Discord Server), and then eventually that's the end of f.ds as we know it.

I'm not joking. With the amount of pointless argumentative drama going on and a viable alternative in the Dominion Discord Server (Reddit's Dominion forum is not built to have a community as much as it is built to simply relay news), f.ds is simply going to be a thing of the past unless something changes.

It's one thing to have an argument, and it's another thing entirely to be a dick whilst arguing a point. If you're being a dick, I implore you to stop it. Being anonymous on the internet does not mean freedom from consequences.

Is this an answer to something specific?

(also, are you the reason why my respect has jumped ~10 points without me posting anything?)

an RSP thing (which is there literally to have that sort of drama)?

It is NOT literally there to have drama. It's there to discuss certain topics that have a tendency to make people emotional. I said it before, and I say it again, this is not ok, because it sounds like it's giving permission to have people be arseholes to each other in that subforum, which is not the case.

[Tables]

Arguing over the internet is one of the most pointless things anybody can possibly do

I disagree.

[Kuildeous]

Arguing over the internet is one of the most pointless things anybody can possibly do

I disagree.

+1

[Kuildeous]

So my sister-in-law, who is taking care of my grandmother-in-law, was wanting an ID bracelet for her in case she wanders off. Being a stubborn old coot, it's quite possible. SIL wanted the bracelet to have her contact information and a warning to anyone that grandma has memory issues.

I feared that the ornery lady would take offense at wearing a bracelet that says, "May lose memory," or anything to do with dementia. I needed something that wouldn't make her remove it out of shame.

Then I remembered that she's always joking that her memory is no longer than her pecker. So I ordered the bracelet to say, "Memory is not longer than pecker." She'll so tickled to wear it that I'm sure she'll show it off to everyone.

I haven't told my SIL that we shipped it to their house yet. I'm eagerly awaiting her response.

[Awaclus]

This program is super fun. http://fractron9000.sourceforge.net/

I just made this in it by having no idea what I was doing:

[Joseph2302]

So I played Dominion with real cards yesterday. After 2 games, no-one at the board game club wanted to play me because I was "too good".

[silverspawn]

yeah, playing dominion online kills the game for casual offline purposes.

[Polk5440]

yeah, playing dominion online kills the game for casual offline purposes.

Play with three or more players per game and volunteer to go last every game.

[LostPhoenix]

yeah, playing dominion online kills the game for casual offline purposes.

This is one of the main reasons I don't play Dominion Online very much. It feels really unfair when I play against people irl, and I'm not even that good.

[LostPhoenix]

Just out of curiosity, what is the most upvoted post on f.ds? I know A Drowned Kernel's Love Story has 102. I'm not sure if anything has topped that.

[sitnaltax]

I believe it's Celestial Chameleon's 2013 solution to emptying the supply in 4 turns, at +119:

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=6855.msg197272#msg197272

It's possible that there's a Donald X or MF-successor post with more, but I can't find one.

[schadd]

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=15162.0


124

[sudgy]

Is anybody into making pixel art?  I'm trying to make a few things for someone and have been trying to learn, and was wondering if anybody has some suggestions.  I've already looked a bit for tutorials online.  Also, if you want, I could maybe send things to you and you can tell me how to fix things.

[Awaclus]

Is anybody into making pixel art?  I'm trying to make a few things for someone and have been trying to learn, and was wondering if anybody has some suggestions.  I've already looked a bit for tutorials online.  Also, if you want, I could maybe send things to you and you can tell me how to fix things.

I used to be, but I doubt I'm any better at it than you are.

[Kuildeous]

Is anybody into making pixel art?  I'm trying to make a few things for someone and have been trying to learn, and was wondering if anybody has some suggestions.  I've already looked a bit for tutorials online.  Also, if you want, I could maybe send things to you and you can tell me how to fix things.

That hobby is so square, man.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Is anybody into making pixel art?  I'm trying to make a few things for someone and have been trying to learn, and was wondering if anybody has some suggestions.  I've already looked a bit for tutorials online.  Also, if you want, I could maybe send things to you and you can tell me how to fix things.

Yeah I actually started to get into it a couple months ago. I'm still a beginner, and the program I use is Aseprite. I've been pretty happy with it, and it's got a nice price point.

Also found this guy's tutorials to be really good. My experience has been that it's much easier to create cool looking animations than still art, but ymmv. It's probably just easier to hide my lack of skill that way  . I should really practice more.

You're probably already familiar, but r/PixelArt also has some fantastic inspiration and helpful resources.

[schadd]

this joke has no punchline:


what's black and rhymes with snoop?

[jonts26]

this joke has no punchline:


what's black and rhymes with snoop?

Dr. Dre

[schadd]

that's not the punchline because it doesn't have one

[Awaclus]

Is it Moat?

[jonts26]

This joke has a punchline

[Donald X.]

http://explosm.net/comics/2944/

[Kuildeous]

that's not the punchline because it doesn't have one

Well, it's obviously not Jim Jones then.

[Tables]

What do you call a joke that will keep an idiot entertained for hours?

[pingpongsam]

What do you call a joke that will keep an idiot entertained for hours?

Making Fun?

[Seprix]

What do you call a joke that will keep an idiot entertained for hours?

Making Fun?

SAVAGE

[Awaclus]

[pacovf]

Actually, the term "tank" for the armoured vehicle was chosen as a codeword when the British were initially designing it, as they wanted any prying eyes to believe the project was for a water carrier vehicle, rather than a new kind of weapon that would be able to break the trench stalemate. Hence, this is not so much a pun as a case of shared etymology.

Signed,

Pedant

[AndrewisFTTW]

Hey guys. I'm back. Sorry.

[Awaclus]

Actually, the term "tank" for the armoured vehicle was chosen as a codeword when the British were initially designing it, as they wanted any prying eyes to believe the project was for a water carrier vehicle, rather than a new kind of weapon that would be able to break the trench stalemate. Hence, this is not so much a pun as a case of shared etymology.

pun1
pʌn
noun
1.
a joke exploiting the different possible meanings of a word or the fact that there are words which sound alike but have different meanings.

It is a joke exploiting the different possible meanings of a word. Thusly, it is a pun.

t. other pedant

[Awaclus]

I bought a SteelSeries Rival 300 (I got it for 25€, I mostly made the purchasing decision based on the fact that it was a pretty damn good deal) last week since my old office mouse started to not work very well anymore. This is the first gaming mouse I've ever had and the difference is striking compared to what I thought it would be, you can really feel it even in basic web browsing and stuff, not just gaming (I don't even play action games all that much).

[pingpongsam]

Should have gotten a Razer.

[Awaclus]

Should have gotten a Razer.

No Razer was in a 65% off deal, and aren't Razers overpriced crap anyway? Not that I know all that much about them from personal experience, though.

[pingpongsam]

Got a Naga about 5 years ago to do 3D modeling work with. It's an amazing piece of hardware. Naga in the right hand and a SpaceMouse in the left, it's like controlling a starship.

[Witherweaver]

https://imgur.com/gallery/SgfEo

[silverspawn]

I love how, after the 20th egg, the day care man still goes "We don't know how it got there, but your pokemon had it." Such innocence.

[Kuildeous]

Man, I've been hanging out on the forums for a new RPG launch and engaging with others regarding the previews.

I volunteered to run a demo of it, so now I have a draft of the rules. Naturally I'm under an NDA.

But now I have to be extremely careful when posting on those forums because I have materials not released in the previews. I have to go back through previous posts to make sure what I want to talk about has already been disclosed.

Damn you, curse of knowledge!

[pacovf]

I believe the brag board is this way.

[pingpongsam]

RPG launch

[silverspawn]

Does sin(x) (with some parameters) describe water waves exactly, or does it just look kind of similar because they're both round and go up and down?

I can't find an answer to this simple question through google!

[Awaclus]

Does sin(x) (with some parameters) describe water waves exactly, or does it just look kind of similar because they're both round and go up and down?

I can't find an answer to this simple question through google!

The shape of water waves depends on a lot of factors, such as wind and the shape of the container which contains the water. I'm not sure if sin(x) can be a close approximation in some cases, though.

[pingpongsam]

var total = 0;
var i = 0;
var startAge = 13;
var endAge = 39;
var diff = endAge-startAge;;
var compAge = startAge;

while (i <= diff) {
total = total + compAge
compAge++
i++}

[pacovf]

What language is that?

total = (EndAge+StartAge)*(EndAge-StartAge+1)/2, for what it's worth. No idea why you are computing that though.

[pingpongsam]

Probably some hodgepodge of javascript and php.

On my 13th birthday my father gave me 13 one dollar bills. On my 14th birthday my father gave me 14 one dollar bills. And so it goes. Laying in bed last night I was trying to figure a formula for solving how many total dollars I have netted at my next birthday.

I can't formula but I can program a bit. The fun part is plugging in different ages.

Turns out I will have to get to 1414 years of age in order to break the million dollar mark.

Was curious if there was an efficient means to type in an end amount and determine the number of years required to meet or exceed that amount.

[pingpongsam]

What language is that?

total = (EndAge+StartAge)*(EndAge-StartAge+1)/2, for what it's worth. No idea why you are computing that though.

formula checks out.

[Kuildeous]

Somehow I had never heard this joke before.

What is the integral of 1/cabin dcabin?

[Witherweaver]

Somehow I had never heard this joke before.

What is the integral of 1/cabin dcabin?

... log cabin

[theorel]

you forgot the constant...
it's a (natural) log cabin by the sea!

[Witherweaver]

you forgot the constant...
it's a (natural) log cabin by the sea!

You mean I chose a constant.

[SpaceAnemone]

Does sin(x) (with some parameters) describe water waves exactly, or does it just look kind of similar because they're both round and go up and down?

I can't find an answer to this simple question through google!

Have you ever come across Fourier decomposition? :-) I think I'd expect standing waves in 1D to be more or less sinusoidal, but I'm pretty sure you could generate other shapes of wave given an appropriate driving function. Obviously there's room for some error caused by friction and fluid viscosity and stuff. I managed to avoid having to study fluid dynamics as part of my engineering degree, though...

[Kuildeous]

you forgot the constant...
it's a (natural) log cabin by the sea!

Or a houseboat, though I like Witherweaver choosing the constant. I'm going to use that on the person who snagged me with that joke.

[SpaceAnemone]

What language is that?

total = (EndAge+StartAge)*(EndAge-StartAge+1)/2, for what it's worth. No idea why you are computing that though.

formula checks out.

If you want a direct formula, try: EndAge = -0.5+sqrt(2)*sqrt(66.125+TotalMoney)

The two things you need to know to derive that are just:
1) The sum of a set of numbers from 1 to N inclusive is 0.5*N*(N+1);
2) The Quadratic Formula.
(And then just a bit of rearranging to tidy it up).

[pingpongsam]

You math people are so cute. It's why I stay here.

[SpaceAnemone]

You math people are so cute. It's why I stay here.

Sometimes I have to pretend to be a normal human female person. Talk about scary!

What do you do for a living outside in the real world if you can get by without maths?

[jonts26]

Does sin(x) (with some parameters) describe water waves exactly, or does it just look kind of similar because they're both round and go up and down?

I can't find an answer to this simple question through google!

I'm afraid this question is far from simple. What sort of waves in particular are you interested in? I'm guessing surface waves? Like a pebble in a lake or more like wind generated waves? I can probably dig up an old textbook on the subject later, but I'm expecting the answer to be derived from the navier Stokes equations, which are a set of partial differential equations and only reducible under specific conditions.

[Witherweaver]

Regarding wave shapes, it depends on the domain.  Basically you have a wave equation

D^2 u = d^2u/dt^2

inside the domain and some boundary condition on the outside.  (For example, if you were looking at a vibrating drum head, the domain would be a disk and the boundary condition would be u=0, since the drum head is fixed to some base.) 

You might expect a second-order PDE to have solutions built from exp, which as we know are sines and cosines (or hyperbolic ones, but signs of stuff don't allow those).  You can do a Fourier treatment and look in frequency space as well.

In one-dimension, we have u_{xx} = u_{tt}, and separating as u(x,t)=X(x)T(t) gives

X''/X = T''/T

As the left-hand depends only on x and the right-hand side depends only on t, we conclude both are a constant k, so

X'' = kX,

and we see why we have exponentials.  Boundary constraints fix the sign of k (for real-word scenarios it is negative), and so we have sines and cosines.  Boundary conditions also give us the frequency, and we basically have a sequence of eigenvalues giving rise to the fundamental frequencies (what you see in a Fourier series expansion).

So you don't just have one sine function, you have a whole series of them, but their amplitude decreases (and pretty quickly, else the series would diverge).  So you have the primary one, and then you have overtones/harmonics.   This works basically the same way for a one-dimensional wave on a string or a musical instrument.

Detail can be found here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_equation

PPE: I think wave equation (maybe you need an extra damping term) is approximate enough for surface waves.  For full blown fluid dynamics in a viscous liquid, you'd need Navier-Stokes.  I believe Navier-Stokes reduces to wave equations under various simplifying assumptions. 

[Witherweaver]

I mean we can always say that sines describes water waves exactly, as they basically describe every (nice enough) function 'exactly'.  It's just you need an infinite series of sine functions. 

[Awaclus]

I mean we can always say that sines describes water waves exactly, as they basically describe every (nice enough) function 'exactly'.  It's just you need an infinite series of sine functions.

I don't think that's what ss meant.

[Witherweaver]

In a simple case of 1-D surface waves, the fundamental solutions are sines and cosines (basically what I typed above).  However it's not just a unique one: it's a bunch of them combining together.  how they combine depends on a bunch of stuff, like the domain (in 1-D, the length of the container), and also what kind of function is forcing the motion.  (The waves have to start from some force.)

The wave equation above does not include damping; in general you'd have that and the amplitude would die out like exp(-at).  But you might drive it with some force (like banging the container or plucking a string every N seconds).

[silverspawn]

Does sin(x) (with some parameters) describe water waves exactly, or does it just look kind of similar because they're both round and go up and down?

I can't find an answer to this simple question through google!

I'm afraid this question is far from simple. What sort of waves in particular are you interested in? I'm guessing surface waves? Like a pebble in a lake or more like wind generated waves? I can probably dig up an old textbook on the subject later, but I'm expecting the answer to be derived from the navier Stokes equations, which are a set of partial differential equations and only reducible under specific conditions.

I'm teaching a school lesson in two days and was wondering whether it'd be accurate to introduce the sine function by saying "hey this will be totally neat it'll model waves perfectly".

I think the thread sufficiently answered the question for me not to do it. If it only kinda looks like waves, then that's not impressive.

[Awaclus]

Does sin(x) (with some parameters) describe water waves exactly, or does it just look kind of similar because they're both round and go up and down?

I can't find an answer to this simple question through google!

I'm afraid this question is far from simple. What sort of waves in particular are you interested in? I'm guessing surface waves? Like a pebble in a lake or more like wind generated waves? I can probably dig up an old textbook on the subject later, but I'm expecting the answer to be derived from the navier Stokes equations, which are a set of partial differential equations and only reducible under specific conditions.

I'm teaching a school lesson in two days and was wondering whether it'd be accurate to introduce the sine function by saying "hey this will be totally neat it'll model waves perfectly".

I think the thread sufficiently answered the question for me not to do it. If it only kinda looks like waves, then that's not impressive.

But it is a wave. A sine wave, to be precise.

I think that it's a lot more neat that you can create literally any waveform by stacking a bunch of sines on top of one another though. What's also neat about sine waves is that when you play two of them 4 octaves apart and distort them a lot, you get that dubstep sound.

[silverspawn]

yeah but that's way too complicated. I also don't find it impressive.

[sudgy]

As long as the acceleration equals the negative displacement, you'll get a sine wave.  So if you manage to show that's how water works (barring other minor forces), it should be correct.  On a side note, my favorite introduction to the sine and cosine is to talk about periodic functions and trying to find a smooth periodic function, just like how e^x is smooth growth.

[SpaceAnemone]

yeah but that's way too complicated. I also don't find it impressive.

I didn't totally believe my tech studies teacher in high school when he told me I could make any periodic signal just out of summing sine waves...it just didn't seem intuitive to me at the time, so I'd assumed there would have had to be a lot of caveats, and that it wouldn't work for anything particularly interesting. It wasn't till a few years later at university that I met the actual maths behind it and understood how neat it was :-)

[Awaclus]

yeah but that's way too complicated. I also don't find it impressive.

I didn't totally believe my tech studies teacher in high school when he told me I could make any periodic signal just out of summing sine waves...it just didn't seem intuitive to me at the time, so I'd assumed there would have had to be a lot of caveats, and that it wouldn't work for anything particularly interesting. It wasn't till a few years later at university that I met the actual maths behind it and understood how neat it was :-)

I think it's a lot more intuitive if you think about actual physical sounds, because you can hear that most sounds have lower frequencies and higher frequencies in them, and that a sine wave only has one frequency. I was taught this in music listening class in high school, for the record.

[Haddock]

yeah but that's way too complicated. I also don't find it impressive.

I didn't totally believe my tech studies teacher in high school when he told me I could make any periodic signal just out of summing sine waves...it just didn't seem intuitive to me at the time, so I'd assumed there would have had to be a lot of caveats, and that it wouldn't work for anything particularly interesting. It wasn't till a few years later at university that I met the actual maths behind it and understood how neat it was :-)

I think it's a lot more intuitive if you think about actual physical sounds, because you can hear that most sounds have lower frequencies and higher frequencies in them, and that a sine wave only has one frequency. I was taught this in music listening class in high school, for the record.

Yes but the fact that it's any (well, edge-cases, edge-cases) periodic signal is surprising even when you consider this.  (Well, I found it surprising anyway).

[Awaclus]

yeah but that's way too complicated. I also don't find it impressive.

I didn't totally believe my tech studies teacher in high school when he told me I could make any periodic signal just out of summing sine waves...it just didn't seem intuitive to me at the time, so I'd assumed there would have had to be a lot of caveats, and that it wouldn't work for anything particularly interesting. It wasn't till a few years later at university that I met the actual maths behind it and understood how neat it was :-)

I think it's a lot more intuitive if you think about actual physical sounds, because you can hear that most sounds have lower frequencies and higher frequencies in them, and that a sine wave only has one frequency. I was taught this in music listening class in high school, for the record.

Yes but the fact that it's any (well, edge-cases, edge-cases) periodic signal is surprising even when you consider this.  (Well, I found it surprising anyway).

Well, sounds can be any periodic signal.

[Haddock]

yeah but that's way too complicated. I also don't find it impressive.

I didn't totally believe my tech studies teacher in high school when he told me I could make any periodic signal just out of summing sine waves...it just didn't seem intuitive to me at the time, so I'd assumed there would have had to be a lot of caveats, and that it wouldn't work for anything particularly interesting. It wasn't till a few years later at university that I met the actual maths behind it and understood how neat it was :-)

I think it's a lot more intuitive if you think about actual physical sounds, because you can hear that most sounds have lower frequencies and higher frequencies in them, and that a sine wave only has one frequency. I was taught this in music listening class in high school, for the record.

Yes but the fact that it's any (well, edge-cases, edge-cases) periodic signal is surprising even when you consider this.  (Well, I found it surprising anyway).

Well, sounds can be any periodic signal.

That can't be true.  And even if it were, we wouldn't be capable of hearing most of them, so it doesn't exactly help our intuition.

[Awaclus]

yeah but that's way too complicated. I also don't find it impressive.

I didn't totally believe my tech studies teacher in high school when he told me I could make any periodic signal just out of summing sine waves...it just didn't seem intuitive to me at the time, so I'd assumed there would have had to be a lot of caveats, and that it wouldn't work for anything particularly interesting. It wasn't till a few years later at university that I met the actual maths behind it and understood how neat it was :-)

I think it's a lot more intuitive if you think about actual physical sounds, because you can hear that most sounds have lower frequencies and higher frequencies in them, and that a sine wave only has one frequency. I was taught this in music listening class in high school, for the record.

Yes but the fact that it's any (well, edge-cases, edge-cases) periodic signal is surprising even when you consider this.  (Well, I found it surprising anyway).

Well, sounds can be any periodic signal.

That can't be true.  And even if it were, we wouldn't be capable of hearing most of them, so it doesn't exactly help our intuition.

Any function you can get by summing an arbitrarily large series of sine waves can also be an actual physical sound. I actually have no idea why you would think otherwise in the first place. I would argue that since we aren't capable of hearing an infinitely high frequency, it actually helps our intuition more because you only need a finite series of sine waves to perfectly replicate any sound to the degree that anyone can tell, which makes it possible to demonstrate it physically.

This is how additive synthesis works, by the way.

[Haddock]

yeah but that's way too complicated. I also don't find it impressive.

I didn't totally believe my tech studies teacher in high school when he told me I could make any periodic signal just out of summing sine waves...it just didn't seem intuitive to me at the time, so I'd assumed there would have had to be a lot of caveats, and that it wouldn't work for anything particularly interesting. It wasn't till a few years later at university that I met the actual maths behind it and understood how neat it was :-)

I think it's a lot more intuitive if you think about actual physical sounds, because you can hear that most sounds have lower frequencies and higher frequencies in them, and that a sine wave only has one frequency. I was taught this in music listening class in high school, for the record.

Yes but the fact that it's any (well, edge-cases, edge-cases) periodic signal is surprising even when you consider this.  (Well, I found it surprising anyway).

Well, sounds can be any periodic signal.

That can't be true.  And even if it were, we wouldn't be capable of hearing most of them, so it doesn't exactly help our intuition.

Any function you can get by summing an arbitrarily large series of sine waves can also be an actual physical sound.

That's not the same thing as "any periodic signal".  Take any function that fails to be Lebesgue measurable, for instance.

[SpaceAnemone]

Any function you can get by summing an arbitrarily large series of sine waves can also be an actual physical sound. I actually have no idea why you would think otherwise in the first place. I would argue that since we aren't capable of hearing an infinitely high frequency, it actually helps our intuition more because you only need a finite series of sine waves to perfectly replicate any sound to the degree that anyone can tell, which makes it possible to demonstrate it physically.

This is how additive synthesis works, by the way.

So what you're really saying is that what we call sounds are band-pass-filtered versions of those "arbitrarily large series of sine waves", which I broadly agree with.

The thing is, with music, most people are so used to thinking about something that relates to frequency space (i.e. notes) that it's not at all surprising to hear that playing two notes at once adds up sounds. We also tend to name them (mostly) after the fundamental frequency, and most of us certainly can't listen to a square wave and comment intuitively about its various frequency components and their offsets or ratios, so we automatically simplify out some of the interesting detail. I just somehow find it more surprising and neat to be able to represent a sawtooth wave (or anything else that's defined based on its appearance in the spatial domain rather than the frequency domain) as a bunch of sines.

[Witherweaver]

Any function you can get by summing an arbitrarily large series of sine waves can also be an actual physical sound. I actually have no idea why you would think otherwise in the first place. I would argue that since we aren't capable of hearing an infinitely high frequency, it actually helps our intuition more because you only need a finite series of sine waves to perfectly replicate any sound to the degree that anyone can tell, which makes it possible to demonstrate it physically.

This is how additive synthesis works, by the way.

So what you're really saying is that what we call sounds are band-pass-filtered versions of those "arbitrarily large series of sine waves", which I broadly agree with.

The thing is, with music, most people are so used to thinking about something that relates to frequency space (i.e. notes) that it's not at all surprising to hear that playing two notes at once adds up sounds. We also tend to name them (mostly) after the fundamental frequency, and most of us certainly can't listen to a square wave and comment intuitively about its various frequency components and their offsets or ratios, so we automatically simplify out some of the interesting detail. I just somehow find it more surprising and neat to be able to represent a sawtooth wave (or anything else that's defined based on its appearance in the spatial domain rather than the frequency domain) as a bunch of sines.

It's even more amazing than that.  You can take basically any function (say on a compact set), that appears to have no kind of periodic behavior, and (as long as it is L^2, I guess), and still represent it as a series of periodic functions. 

Though I suppose that's the same idea as considering a periodic extension of such a function and then taking the Fourier series of that.  However, it can be a a very ugly function (not even continuous), as long as it's square integrable. 

[Awaclus]

most of us certainly can't listen to a square wave and comment intuitively about its various frequency components and their offsets or ratios

I don't think that's the case, though. If you listen to a song with cell phone speakers, most people can tell that it doesn't have as much bass in it as it would have when played through a better sound system. And that's exactly commenting intuitively about its various frequency components.

[pacovf]

I would assume you can't have any periodic gnal as a sound (even if our ears could somehow process all frequencies), because the physical properties of air limit the frequencies that can move through it. But to be fair, I've always been terrible at fluid mechanics.

[silverspawn]

Still don't find it impressive. You can describe a function by an infinite set of points; why shouldn't you be able to describe it through an infinite set of functions? That's "way more" for the same thing.

I'll just say it has infinite passes through the X axis.

[Awaclus]

Still don't find it impressive. You can describe a function by an infinite set of points; why shouldn't you be able to describe it through an infinite set of functions? That's "way more" for the same thing.

I'll just say it has infinite passes through the X axis.

Surely, additive synthesis is more impressive than the fact that a waveform has infinite passes through the X axis.

[silverspawn]

additive synthesis are just two foreign terms for a bunch of 16 year olds who aren't particularly interested in maths.

[Awaclus]

additive synthesis are just two foreign terms for a bunch of 16 year olds who aren't particularly interested in maths.

I'm pretty sure at least some of them listen to some kind of music that utilizes additive synths, though.

[Kuildeous]

I'm a bit annoyed at my director/choreographer. I'm involved with a dance number in the show I'm in. It's Temptations-like where we are in a line. We do a 270, and I can only see one other dancer in front of me. I notice that she goes right into the rocking motion after she turns, and I felt as if I have to wait half a measure.

I asked the director about this because I want to make sure we're all on the same page on when we're supposed to rock. After all, dance numbers in musicals are supposed to look uniform (except where they're not). The director said that it's weird because I turn too soon. I didn't notice because I was too busy turning 270 degree. I learn this on the final rehearsal night. Was she just going to let me do the entire show out of sync with the other dancers? Does she not care how that looks to the audience? I know I care. I don't want to be that lug who can't coordinate with the others.

I'm guessing it's because she was afraid of causing offense. I've heard of diva performers, but I can't imagine that I come off as one. I am fully aware that choreography is not my strong suit. I need guidance.

[Haddock]

I'm a bit annoyed at my director/choreographer. I'm involved with a dance number in the show I'm in. It's Temptations-like where we are in a line. We do a 270, and I can only see one other dancer in front of me. I notice that she goes right into the rocking motion after she turns, and I felt as if I have to wait half a measure.

I asked the director about this because I want to make sure we're all on the same page on when we're supposed to rock. After all, dance numbers in musicals are supposed to look uniform (except where they're not). The director said that it's weird because I turn too soon. I didn't notice because I was too busy turning 270 degree. I learn this on the final rehearsal night. Was she just going to let me do the entire show out of sync with the other dancers? Does she not care how that looks to the audience? I know I care. I don't want to be that lug who can't coordinate with the others.

I'm guessing it's because she was afraid of causing offense. I've heard of diva performers, but I can't imagine that I come off as one. I am fully aware that choreography is not my strong suit. I need guidance.

Man, I feel you.  I so sympathise with this.  I really struggle with the dance aspect of shows, and I have to start every one just saying to the choreographer "Look, I'm gonna need lots of help here, please don't be afraid to tell me what to do!".

[Kuildeous]

Actually, I do remember a diva moment in an earlier show. This actress was really abrasive and talked back to the music director. At home, I rehearsed with the practice music we set up, which was recorded with the correct counts. At some point I realized that we started slipping into a trend where it took us two measures to sing one particular measure.

When I realized that things were sounding different from my practice music, I asked the music director about it. She said that yeah we were way off, but it was easier to make the orchestra vamp an additional measure to give us time. The abrasive actress had successfully cowed the director into not fighting it. The change wouldn't be so bad except that it'd be nice to have a formal announcement of the change.

It's gotten to the point that I don't even want to see show with this actress in it. Her backstage shenanigans were horrid, and I don't know how she keeps getting cast.

[Kirian]

Just explain to the choreographer that she can describe the dance as the summation of an infinite number of sine waves.

[Witherweaver]

Obligatory:

[Kirian]

Also, tangentially related to the sound discussion:

The cochlea is a mechanical Fourier transform calculator.

[SpaceAnemone]

Also, tangentially related to the sound discussion:

The cochlea is a mechanical Fourier transform calculator.

More than tangentially related, I think :-) When Awaclus started talking about sound waves, I mentioned that to me, music tends to be thought of in frequency space anyway. You can kind of look at a piano keyboard as a spatial representation of the Fourier space for the music... makes sense that we've chosen that sort of a representation, given that our hearing and auditory perception are tied to it.

[silverspawn]

guah, I can't watch embarrassing scenes. Whenever someone is socially awkward I feel super uncomfortable watching, regardless of whether I like the character or not. I'm only really realizing now how weird it is that I have way more of a problem with that than watching a murder take place or something. I blame society.

[Awaclus]

guah, I can't watch embarrassing scenes. Whenever someone is socially awkward I feel super uncomfortable watching, regardless of whether I like the character or not. I'm only really realizing now how weird it is that I have way more of a problem with that than watching a murder take place or something. I blame society.

It's probably because a lot of the socially awkward scenes in movies and TV are designed to transmit the awkwardness to the viewer and they really over-emphasize the situation, whereas a lot of the murder scenes are just there to let the viewer know about an important plot point and they tend to be rather watered-down. The most uncomfortable scenes that I've seen are definitely murder and other violent scenes in some of the more extreme and less mainstream movies, #1 being that scene from Exhibit A.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Feeling nostalgic today:

[AndrewisFTTW]

Also:



Murica.

[Awaclus]

Also:



Murica.

Is he even looking where he's shooting?

[Witherweaver]

Pitioss Ruins basically ruins FFXV for me   It's close to being really cool, but instead of making it fun and interesting and challenging, they made it obnoxious, stressful, and annoying.

[Awaclus]

[MafBot]

CAPTCHA IS $NEGATIVE_ADJECTIVE

[gkrieg13]

The ironic thing is the captcha would be very difficult to get by with a bot.

[Kirian]

Shutting down the con's main gaming room from 745 to 9 is thoroughly annoying, but at least vaguely workable.  Shutting down the area after 9 to run a CAH "tournament" is an insult to gaming.  Moving the rest of gaming to the room directly across from the dance is even more of an insult.

Being on ConCom means hopefully I can get the ear of the gaming coordinator.  And then twist it off while shouting WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU.

[Tables]

I got a Nintendo Switch two and a half weeks ago, but was busy so didn't intend to use it. But my sister (who was at my parents who I was visiting) insisted on playing Zelda: Breath of the Wild, so I acquiesced and let her use it. Then I let her borrow it for two weeks until I visited again, last weekend.

Well anyway apparently 5 days have passed since then and I've been playing Breath of the Wild a lot. It's really good. I must have put about 40-50 hours into it over the four day Easter weekend plus today, and I'm still probably less than half way through the main story.

[pingpongsam]

Also:



Murica.

If you pause it just right on the 3 second mark you can see the bullet with a trace of fire behind it and the gun in full recoil with the barrel angled up.

[silverspawn]

does someone know what the complex-number-C with a small x in the exponnent is meant to denote? The complex numbers with abs value =/= 0 perhaps?

[liopoil]

does someone know what the complex-number-C with a small x in the exponnent is meant to denote? The complex numbers with abs value =/= 0 perhaps?

The only complex number with abs value of 0 is 0 itself, so yes. I think any field with a small x superscript is the field without the zero element.

[Haddock]

does someone know what the complex-number-C with a small x in the exponnent is meant to denote? The complex numbers with abs value =/= 0 perhaps?

The only complex number with abs value of 0 is 0 itself, so yes. I think any field with a small x superscript is the field without the zero element.

Yes. Superscript x usually denotes the group of invertible elements in a ring. Which in a field is everything except 0.

[Witherweaver]

Fun facts: China airport WiFi blocks Google but not, like, most other sites.  So you can't find what you want but you can get to it if you already know it.  Well I mean I guess you can use other search engines, but who does that?

I think Facebook is also blocked.

[Titandrake]

Fun facts: China airport WiFi blocks Google but not, like, most other sites.  So you can't find what you want but you can get to it if you already know it.  Well I mean I guess you can use other search engines, but who does that?

I think Facebook is also blocked.

This isn't a China airport thing, it's a China-in-general thing. There are Chinese alternatives to a lot of the blocked sites - in particular Baidu is often called "the Chinese Google", and it plays a similar role.

[Witherweaver]

Right, I assumed, but I'm just staying in the airport for a layover so haven't gone outside of it.  I ended up using Bing for the first time ever~

[Witherweaver]

Also worth noting if anyone flies a Chinese airline.. cell phones cannot be used even if in airplane mode.  They must be powered off.  I was a bit annoyed as downloaded everything on my phone , including some podcasts, and couldn't use it during a 15 hour flight

Tablets and computers can be used, though.

Also, the airline crew is waaaaaaaaaaay more attractive than in America.  And also more formal.

[McGarnacle]

Also worth noting if anyone flies a Chinese airline.. cell phones cannot be used even if in airplane mode.  They must be powered off.  I was a bit annoyed as downloaded everything on my phone , including some podcasts, and couldn't use it during a 15 hour flight

Tablets and computers can be used, though.

Also, the airline crew is waaaaaaaaaaay more attractive than in America.  And also more formal.

Do they charge you for water like Spirit?

[McGarnacle]

Also worth noting if anyone flies a Chinese airline.. cell phones cannot be used even if in airplane mode.  They must be powered off.  I was a bit annoyed as downloaded everything on my phone , including some podcasts, and couldn't use it during a 15 hour flight

Tablets and computers can be used, though.

Also, the airline crew is waaaaaaaaaaay more attractive than in America.  And also more formal.

Do they charge you for water like Spirit?

[Awaclus]

Also worth noting if anyone flies a Chinese airline.. cell phones cannot be used even if in airplane mode.  They must be powered off.  I was a bit annoyed as downloaded everything on my phone , including some podcasts, and couldn't use it during a 15 hour flight

Tablets and computers can be used, though.

Also, the airline crew is waaaaaaaaaaay more attractive than in America.  And also more formal.

Do they charge you for water like Spirit?

[Witherweaver]

Also worth noting if anyone flies a Chinese airline.. cell phones cannot be used even if in airplane mode.  They must be powered off.  I was a bit annoyed as downloaded everything on my phone , including some podcasts, and couldn't use it during a 15 hour flight

Tablets and computers can be used, though.

Also, the airline crew is waaaaaaaaaaay more attractive than in America.  And also more formal.

Do they charge you for water like Spirit?

No, they provide meals (actually decent and more food than I needed, really) and beverages without cost.  I'm pretty sure that includes alcohol, though I only asked for water and tea.

[Kuildeous]

Doctor is a little concerned about my blood pressure. Must do what I can to avoid cutting out salt.

This may mean *gasp* exercising. Oh well, that'll help my cholesterol too.

Bodies are stupid.

[pingpongsam]

Bodies are absolutely amazing, resilient, and mind bogglingly complex. The owner/operators tend to be careless and stupid.

[Awaclus]

I don't think it's an amazing idea to think of your body and your mind as two separate things.

[pingpongsam]

I don't think it's an amazing idea to think of your body and your mind as two separate things.

Not sure if in response to me or Kuildeous but I would agree that one will follow the other although a priority on the body seems more efficient.

[Awaclus]

I don't think it's an amazing idea to think of your body and your mind as two separate things.

Not sure if in response to me or Kuildeous but I would agree that one will follow the other although a priority on the body seems more efficient.

It was a response to both of you. I didn't say that one will follow the other, I said that there isn't even a reason to differentiate between the two in the first place. The entirety of a person is the entirety of a person and that's the smallest unit there's any point in considering before delving into specific body parts and stuff.

[pingpongsam]

I don't think it's an amazing idea to think of your body and your mind as two separate things.

Not sure if in response to me or Kuildeous but I would agree that one will follow the other although a priority on the body seems more efficient.

It was a response to both of you. I didn't say that one will follow the other, I said that there isn't even a reason to differentiate between the two in the first place. The entirety of a person is the entirety of a person and that's the smallest unit there's any point in considering before delving into specific body parts and stuff.

I do disagree with that. I'll cite comatose and sleeping for starters.

[Kuildeous]

I walked by a tea shop that had an employee standing out front to try to drum up business. I prefer to eat Dim Sum when I'm not alone, so I declined. Instead, I got some cheap Chinese food. I made sure to not sit in view of the Dim Sum guy to avoid his judgmental stare.

I shared that on Facebook, and one friend replied, "Dim Sum judgmental employees."

[Awaclus]

I don't think it's an amazing idea to think of your body and your mind as two separate things.

Not sure if in response to me or Kuildeous but I would agree that one will follow the other although a priority on the body seems more efficient.

It was a response to both of you. I didn't say that one will follow the other, I said that there isn't even a reason to differentiate between the two in the first place. The entirety of a person is the entirety of a person and that's the smallest unit there's any point in considering before delving into specific body parts and stuff.

I do disagree with that. I'll cite comatose and sleeping for starters.

Well, in order to remain conscious, your cerebral cortex and reticular activating system need to function and you fall into a coma if that isn't the case. The cerebral cortex and the RAS are undoubtedly parts of your body, and similarly, any other body part can stop functioning and then it doesn't do whatever it is that it usually does anymore, so being comatose is not any different from having your hand cut off or something.

As far as sleeping is concerned, it affects a variety of different body parts, some of which are responsible for functions related to your consciousness and some of which are not. The same is true for the body parts that it doesn't affect. There are even body parts that sleeping causes to become more active than they are in a wakeful state, and even that group of body parts includes stuff that doesn't have anything to do with consciousness and stuff that does.

[pingpongsam]

A car is still a car without a driver. A driver isn't a driver without a car.
The car without the driver doesn't function as a car is designed to function. A driver without a car can still be many things but cannot be a driver.
So, while there is certainly a symbiotic requirement in effect, the fact is the 2 things are quite separate and do exist in the absence of the other.

I consider the body the car and the mind the driver although I'd temper the idea that the mind can be and do much without the body (Stephen Hawking is a good example of where I am going with this). Making it a RSP topic, I do believe there is something metaphysically inhabiting the body that does not cease to exist when the body expires and decomposes. I believe this metaphysical component is the essential nature of the mind.

[Witherweaver]

By the way, do we have anyone here that lives in Tokyo, or elsewhere in Japan?

[Tables]

May the Third be with you

[Awaclus]

[silverspawn]

My computer does weird things...

First there is the thing that everything freezes and then goes black for a bit and then goes normal again and there is a popup message saying display drivers have momentarily shut down but recovered. That's been going on for a while, isn't too big of a deal, and happens maybe once per hour. But now it also does this thing where it totally freezes and then won't boot. It's stuck at the graphic card boasting screen at the very beginning, where it shows a picture and says AsRock (I think it's what it's called?) and gives the options to boot differently using F12, F2 or what have you. Strangely, disconnecting mouse, keyboard, internet, and headphones seems to make it work (or maybe just waiting a bit longer)?

I don't want to be unable to use my PC for three days while I figure out how to fix the problem so instead I want to fix it while it's still working. Not having to spend a lot of time on it is a pretty high priority because I hate dealing with hardware and am also bad at it. Based on the symptoms, how certain is it that the graphic card is the problem and can I just figure out which models work and then buy a new one without much ado?

[pingpongsam]

My computer does weird things...

First there is the thing that everything freezes and then goes black for a bit and then goes normal again and there is a popup message saying display drivers have momentarily shut down but recovered. That's been going on for a while, isn't too big of a deal, and happens maybe once per hour. But now it also does this thing where it totally freezes and then won't boot. It's stuck at the graphic card boasting screen at the very beginning, where it shows a picture and says AsRock (I think it's what it's called?) and gives the options to boot differently using F12, F2 or what have you. Strangely, disconnecting mouse, keyboard, internet, and headphones seems to make it work (or maybe just waiting a bit longer)?

I don't want to be unable to use my PC for three days while I figure out how to fix the problem so instead I want to fix it while it's still working. Not having to spend a lot of time on it is a pretty high priority because I hate dealing with hardware and am also bad at it. Based on the symptoms, how certain is it that the graphic card is the problem and can I just figure out which models work and then buy a new one without much ado?

High probability it is graphics related.

Step 1, reseat adapter (also make sure adequate cooling, fan is spinning on card, etc.)
Step 2, update driver, read the changelog for your specific issue
Step 3, research mobo, adapter combination.
Step 4, fallback to onboard graphics

Those are the easiest to try assuming you have a discrete card for graphics. If falling back still doesn't work it sounds like motherboard issue. If you are using onboard graphics maybe invest in a discrete adapter. Lots of variables, here.

However, a glitch every hour is a pretty big deal in my book. totally worth getting that sorted the fuck out. That it has progressed to hanging at the graphics boot screen suggests a problem that could get tot he point of complete failure very soon.

[silverspawn]

That it has progressed to hanging at the graphics boot screen suggests a problem that could get tot he point of complete failure very soon.

Yeah, that was my fear too.

I use a not-on-board graphic card (which I think you mean by discrete?) with an adapter. I'll follow your steps (sounds doable even for me) and report back (though not today, I'll take the gamble that it works for a while longer).

[Kuildeous]

Euthanasia for pets is really kind of a horrifying relationship. Here you have this pet who has learned to trust you. Each day she comes to you because you offer food and love. Every day that she comes to you, she has complete faith that she'll leave you happier than before.

But when you make the decision to euthanize the pet, she has no idea. She has one last moment where she comes to you with that same unfailing faith as all the previous days. She has no idea that you're taking her to the end of her life.

It's a weird feeling. I have the power to leave her to her cancer to progress naturally and continue the cycle of her believing that our encounters will always be positive. Naturally I choose not because I interpret her quality of life to be so poor that death is the more compassionate option. That doesn't change the fact that she'll look up at me with that hopeful optimism which will lead directly to her drawing her final breath.

It feels like betrayal, even though I believe it's the best decision. 

[pingpongsam]

Pet ownership is a responsibility and a significant part of that responsibility is making a prudent decisions about the quality of their life and that includes when is most appropriate to terminate it. My pets do trust me to make that decision for them is how I see it. It's not much different than a DNR relationship with a spouse (except on the scale of emotional import, obviously).

[Kuildeous]

I think cognizance is a big factor. A person can choose to have DNR. A person can express their wishes before they reach the point where such a decision is to be made.

It feels weird to me with a pet, because the pet cannot make that determination and is not even aware of such an option. Unless the human is abusive or the animal is solitary or aggressive, the typical relationship is that the pet will trot on up to the human for positive interaction. There's no awareness whatsoever that you're putting that pet in the crate in order to euthanize it.

I'm still going through with it because that is the prudent thing to do, but I just know she's going to expect one thing and get something entirely different. 

[Awaclus]

I definitely think that it's pretty strange that in many countries, a person can make that decision for an animal but can't make it for himself.

[pingpongsam]

the typical relationship is that the pet will trot on up to the human for positive interaction. There's no awareness whatsoever that you're putting that pet in the crate in order to euthanize it.

I think this presumes that euthanization is strictly a negative interaction and I am contending that it is not. I see the the lack of cognizance of what is happening making this even more true.

[pingpongsam]

All that to say, it sounds like you're probably having a rough day of it. I know we tend to be pedantic and technical around here so I'm certainly not intending to detract from the fact you're having to do something hard today. I'm not sure if my perspective on the situation offers any comfort. While it does ease my mind it has never made the reality of the process much easier.

[Kuildeous]

Nah, I get it. I appreciate the empathy.

I'm mostly just musing. It was just a strange thought in my head that the pet will come to me all happy and will allow herself to be put in the crate. I suppose really it's me who'll be affected by the change in routine. Or, rather, notice it.

And yeah, positive interaction was not quite the right wording. Animals (and humans) fight really hard to survive. Even if an animal is in great pain, I imagine she would struggle if something was happening that was killing her (such as strangulation). I wouldn't know since I'm not doing that. But I imagine that even a fully informed and consenting human who agreed to be euthanized would struggle with primal fury. Perfectly good justification for anesthesia.

[pacovf]

I have nothing else to say than: I am very sorry for your loss, Kuildeous.

[heron]

My cat had to be euthanized a couple of weeks ago. It sucks.

[silverspawn]

34567876543 is a prime number!

I wonder if finding that by accident is sufficintly unlikely to warrant me feeling freaked out.

Also I noticed that every number the form 12321, 1234321 etc is exactly p^2*q^2 for two prime numbers p and q (and 121 is 11^2 and 1 is 1). I wonder why. I should really not spend time trying to figure it out.

[McGarnacle]

My computer does weird things...

First there is the thing that everything freezes and then goes black for a bit and then goes normal again and there is a popup message saying display drivers have momentarily shut down but recovered. That's been going on for a while, isn't too big of a deal, and happens maybe once per hour. But now it also does this thing where it totally freezes and then won't boot. It's stuck at the graphic card boasting screen at the very beginning, where it shows a picture and says AsRock (I think it's what it's called?) and gives the options to boot differently using F12, F2 or what have you. Strangely, disconnecting mouse, keyboard, internet, and headphones seems to make it work (or maybe just waiting a bit longer)?

I don't want to be unable to use my PC for three days while I figure out how to fix the problem so instead I want to fix it while it's still working. Not having to spend a lot of time on it is a pretty high priority because I hate dealing with hardware and am also bad at it. Based on the symptoms, how certain is it that the graphic card is the problem and can I just figure out which models work and then buy a new one without much ado?

High probability it is graphics related.

Step 1, reseat adapter (also make sure adequate cooling, fan is spinning on card, etc.)
Step 2, update driver, read the changelog for your specific issue
Step 3, research mobo, adapter combination.
Step 4, fallback to onboard graphics

Those are the easiest to try assuming you have a discrete card for graphics. If falling back still doesn't work it sounds like motherboard issue. If you are using onboard graphics maybe invest in a discrete adapter. Lots of variables, here.

However, a glitch every hour is a pretty big deal in my book. totally worth getting that sorted the fuck out. That it has progressed to hanging at the graphics boot screen suggests a problem that could get tot he point of complete failure very soon.

f.ds tech support

[liopoil]

34567876543 is a prime number!

I wonder if finding that by accident is sufficintly unlikely to warrant me feeling freaked out.

Also I noticed that every number the form 12321, 1234321 etc is exactly p^2*q^2 for two prime numbers p and q (and 121 is 11^2 and 1 is 1). I wonder why. I should really not spend time trying to figure it out.

It's not that unlikely. Almost 4% of numbers with 11 digits are prime, I estimate.

Well, 1 2 3 4 ...n-1 n n-1... 4 3 2 1 is equal to (10^n + 10^{n-1} + ... + 1000 + 100 + 10 + 1)^2. That is, 111...1 with n ones. When this number is the product of 2 primes, you're right. That's usually not the case though (first counterexample is 12345654321 I think).

EDIT: To say it precisely: ((10^{n+1} - 1)/9)^2 = (\sum_{k = 0}^n 10^k)^2 = \sum_{k = 0}^{2n} (n + 1 - |n - k|) 10^k

[silverspawn]

ew. I only tested towards 123454321 because the tool had a number cap.

[Titandrake]

More precisely, the 4% estimate comes from the prime number theorem, which says out of the numbers from 1 to n, about 1 / ln(n) of them will be prime.

This is actually pretty handy for cryptography, because some encryption algorithms rely on generating large random primes, and the prime number theorem guarantees you won't have to try too many random numbers to get there.

[Kirian]

ew. I only tested towards 123454321 because the tool had a number cap.

Well, 3 is prime.  And 5 is prime.  And 7 is prime.  Yep, every odd number greater than 1 is prime, that checks out!

[silverspawn]

ew. I only tested towards 123454321 because the tool had a number cap.

Well, 3 is prime.  And 5 is prime.  And 7 is prime.  Yep, every odd number greater than 1 is prime, that checks out!

But if the hypothesis is complex and every number has a tiny a priori chance of fulfilling it, I though I had great odds!

[Witherweaver]

There are some interesting examples of sequences that that do not fail to follow some apparently pattern until very large numbers (like in index at least of order 1e10).  They are apparently referred to as eventual counterexamples.

Polya conjecture is the one with the smallest counterexample around 1e10:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C3%B3lya_conjecture

Some other links:

https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/111440/examples-of-apparent-patterns-that-eventually-fail
https://mathoverflow.net/questions/15444/examples-of-eventual-counterexamples

[silverspawn]

That is really interesting.

[Awaclus]

Also I noticed that every number the form 12321, 1234321 etc is exactly p^2*q^2 for two prime numbers p and q (and 121 is 11^2 and 1 is 1). I wonder why. I should really not spend time trying to figure it out.

So I guess this was a real Parker Square of a pattern.

[Seprix]

[Kuildeous]

ew. I only tested towards 123454321 because the tool had a number cap.

Well, 3 is prime.  And 5 is prime.  And 7 is prime.  Yep, every odd number greater than 1 is prime, that checks out!

Nein!

[Tables]

So I noticed this post from Coppernicus is getting a ton of upvotes this week: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=1276.msg20990#msg20990

I'm pretty confident the reason why is, well, he pretty much predicted a bunch of stuff from the newest expansions, several years before they came out. But how did a bunch of people notice that this week? Did someone point it out somewhere?

[Mic Qsenoch]

So I noticed this post from Coppernicus is getting a ton of upvotes this week: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=1276.msg20990#msg20990

I'm pretty confident the reason why is, well, he pretty much predicted a bunch of stuff from the newest expansions, several years before they came out. But how did a bunch of people notice that this week? Did someone point it out somewhere?

jsh pointed it out on the discord channel.

[pacovf]

Aaaaand Octopus Pie ended. Possibly the webcomic that had the most meaning for me and made me think the most.

[ashersky]

For all of you Pokémon Go players out there...

http://www.ablogtowatch.com/romain-jerome-tourbillon-pokemon-watch/

[SpaceAnemone]

For all of you Pokémon Go players out there...

http://www.ablogtowatch.com/romain-jerome-tourbillon-pokemon-watch/

I rather enjoy Pokémon Go, but ever since getting a smartphone, I've totally stopped wearing a watch.

I'm not sure I ever quite understood watch-as-a-personal/fashion-statement as opposed to watch-to-tell-the-time anyway.

[Awaclus]

I have 3333 unread emails in my inbox.

[Tables]

I very rarely go above about 10 unread emails. I read the bits I actually care about, then hit mark all as read for the rest.

[Kirian]

I very rarely go above about 10 unread emails. I read the bits I actually care about, then hit mark all as read for the rest.

Ooooo... that's... actually a good idea.

My Inbox: 1955 unread out of 13085

[Kirian]

Related:

[Awaclus]

I very rarely go above about 10 unread emails. I read the bits I actually care about, then hit mark all as read for the rest.

Ooooo... that's... actually a good idea.

My Inbox: 1955 unread out of 13085

I actually only have around 6025 emails total.

[silverspawn]

I have no idea how you can do that. My observation is that ignoring mails for more than a few days is a really really bad idea that often gets me into trouble.

Unless you're talking about spam, of course.

[Awaclus]

I have no idea how you can do that. My observation is that ignoring mails for more than a few days is a really really bad idea that often gets me into trouble.

Unless you're talking about spam, of course.

Not just spam but all sorts of notifications that I want to get but don't have to open, mostly.

[silverspawn]

Oh, those mails don't go into the "unread" count for me. Bu yeah, those pile up quick.

[Tables]

This is something I really like about Gmail. I get some notifications from advertisers and Twitch and stuff that all get automatically filtered out and don't go into my main inbox. Then when I have some spare time I give them a quick scan, see if anything is interesting that I care about, and hit mark all as read for the rest.

[Awaclus]

This is something I really like about Gmail. I get some notifications from advertisers and Twitch and stuff that all get automatically filtered out and don't go into my main inbox. Then when I have some spare time I give them a quick scan, see if anything is interesting that I care about, and hit mark all as read for the rest.

I get a lot of that stuff into my main inbox because I actually do want to notice it asap.

[schadd]

I CAN'T FOR THE LIFE OF ME FIGURE OUT WHAT THIS FUCKING IMAGE OF A GIRL I HAVE INGRAINED IN MY MIND IS


it's like, she looks like fake scully from the later x-files^[1] and she's looking up-left at the camera but her hair looks like ^[2]

1

2



it's like an album cover or some sort of picture of a girl from one of the million hecking forms of media that have pictures of girls on them and it suddenly popped into my mind because my friend snapchatted me and looked like this mystery girl and SHE LAID EGGS AND I CAN'T GET RID OF THE MEMORYSPAWN AAAAAAAAAAAA


why must humanity be so flawed, one must imagine sisyphus happy, etc.

[Kirian]

I CAN'T FOR THE LIFE OF ME FIGURE OUT WHAT THIS FUCKING IMAGE OF A GIRL I HAVE INGRAINED IN MY MIND IS

[snip]

why must humanity be so flawed, one must imagine sisyphus happy, etc.

Peak random, James Joyce couldn't have done better.

[pacovf]

Is this it? Looks like it's actually fake Scully.

[Kuildeous]

I had a similarly maddening moment when I was seeing that John Cena commercial about America. The music was so familiar to me, but I just couldn't place it. It was driving me nuts. I knew it was in a movie. I checked V for Vendetta, but the big scenes there were set to the 1812 Overture. Oh, maybe it was played during O Captain, My Captain in the Dead Poets Society. Okay, that was also far off the mark.

It finally hit me that it was in the Truman Show. The piece is by Phillip Glass and is called Anthem.

It was such a relief to have that knowledge. I hope you find your girl.

[LastFootnote]

I had a similarly maddening moment when I was seeing that John Cena commercial about America. The music was so familiar to me, but I just couldn't place it. It was driving me nuts. I knew it was in a movie. I checked V for Vendetta, but the big scenes there were set to the 1812 Overture. Oh, maybe it was played during O Captain, My Captain in the Dead Poets Society. Okay, that was also far off the mark.

It finally hit me that it was in the Truman Show. The piece is by Phillip Glass and is called Anthem.

It was such a relief to have that knowledge. I hope you find your girl.

You should have come to me again. I actually would have been able to tell you that one without any research. The Truman Show is one of my favorite movies and I have that track on my computer.

[GendoIkari]

I had a similarly maddening moment when I was seeing that John Cena commercial about America. The music was so familiar to me, but I just couldn't place it. It was driving me nuts. I knew it was in a movie. I checked V for Vendetta, but the big scenes there were set to the 1812 Overture. Oh, maybe it was played during O Captain, My Captain in the Dead Poets Society. Okay, that was also far off the mark.

It finally hit me that it was in the Truman Show. The piece is by Phillip Glass and is called Anthem.

It was such a relief to have that knowledge. I hope you find your girl.

You should have come to me again. I actually would have been able to tell you that one without any research. The Truman Show is one of my favorite movies and I have that track on my computer.

I've been listening to that entire soundtrack every day for the past couple weeks.

[GendoIkari]

And I just now found out that, in fact, that music is not from The Truman Show. It's from a documentary called Powaqqatsi. The song used in the Cena ad is "Anthem (Part 1)", which was not in The Truman Show. The documentary contained parts 1, 2, and 3 of Anthem; Truman Show used part 2.

This also explains finally why The Truman Show soundtrack has a song called Anthem Part 2, when there's no Part 1 there!

It's interesting, I haven't know of composers re-using previous works from one movie when working on another movie.

[Kuildeous]

I couldn't remember all the names of Glass's works with those two, so I lumped them together. It did bother me while watching the Truman Show clip that it wasn't quite gelling in my brain that it was the same thing as that commercial.

But man, briefly I had myself convinced it was Dead Poets Society. I even fabricated a memory where there's a close-up of a student's shoe stepping up on the desk as the music swells. I'm glad to have dismissed that delusion, as the music during that scene is pretty awesome too.

I may have to consider consulting Last Footnote for all my music needs.

[ThetaSigma12]

I had a similarly maddening moment when I was seeing that John Cena commercial about America. The music was so familiar to me, but I just couldn't place it. It was driving me nuts. I knew it was in a movie. I checked V for Vendetta, but the big scenes there were set to the 1812 Overture. Oh, maybe it was played during O Captain, My Captain in the Dead Poets Society. Okay, that was also far off the mark.

It finally hit me that it was in the Truman Show. The piece is by Phillip Glass and is called Anthem.

It was such a relief to have that knowledge. I hope you find your girl.

You should have come to me again. I actually would have been able to tell you that one without any research. The Truman Show is one of my favorite movies and I have that track on my computer.

I've been listening to that entire soundtrack every day for the past couple weeks.

I love that song! It is somewhat obscure, I'm surprised to actually meet someone else who has it on their playlist.

[Awaclus]

I just stepped on a Lego.

[ThetaSigma12]

I just stepped on a Lego.

They don't hurt as much as everyone says they do.

[Dylan32]

I just stepped on a Lego.

They don't hurt as much as everyone says they do.

Depends on which size of block you step on.

[Tables]

Yesterday I played Cave Story for the first time. It was pretty fun, and despite its age (13 years) was pretty great and enjoyable. For those unfamiliar (probably most of you), it's a 2D platformer/RPG where you explore an island, fight enemies with a variety of guns which level up and down as you engage in combat, and seems to have a bit of a focus on cool boss battles. The game is about 5 hours long, and I think there was something like 14 boss battles in that time, which is pretty good going. The difficulty curve is really good, with the later boss fights getting reasonably challenging, and platforming getting somewhat complex as well (especially once I got the Machine Gun, which I quickly discovered lets you hover), and save points are pretty common, so it's a fun challenge and not usually frustrating.

However, after finishing the game I discovered there is a good ending, and i just got the normal ending (I also got the bad ending along the way but fortunately that one is super easy to just load from before and keep going). Sadly, the game REALLY falls down here. I'll warn you now, there might be a few minor to moderate spoilers from here on:

* The requirements to get the good ending are really random. Don't go talk to the person who falls down a hole and gives you a useful powerup. Explore a room in the middle of a boss battle (or technically before instigating the boss) to find a specific item - that only appears if you did the previous task, which is entirely unrelated. Then continue on doing a few other specific things. The results make sense, but I don't see any way you'd work out it's what you're meant to do, unless you already knew.

* The game throws save points out of the window at the point the game gets really hard. This is the one thing that made me stop playing - up to this point, saves were frequent, there was usually one available close before and soon after every boss, as well as scattered throughout the platforming areas. But the final areas of the game on the good ending... no save points. They're also probably the hardest areas in the game, which would be fine... IF the game continued with its own establised "rules" of having saves often. They're tough, but mostly fair on their own. You have to go through three difficult areas, after which is a boss fight without any kind of explicit recovery, so most likely you're going to try and grind for some health before it, which takes a while.

All in all getting to that boss took me around ~10 minutes each time. If there was a save point here, I'd be fairly happy. You could get through that annoying grindy bit, and be ready to challenge the penultimate boss. The boss isn't too hard once you know what you're doing either, although he has a OHKO attack which will only ever get you once - but will probably get you once. And that means 10 more minutes of repeating this area, joy.

And as you might expect, after this... there's still no save point. And in case you're wondering, no checkpoints either. You go on from this area, get a recovery point, but still no saves. And then you have the final boss. I fought him once, and once I figured out his patterns he didn't seem too bad... in phase 1... out of 4... but I still died because I lost too much health as he dashed around unexpectedly in ways I wasn't yet able to anticipate.

At this point, I gave up. Not because I don't think I can do it, but because I don't want to have to play through the same area another maybe 3-5 times, taking 10+ minutes each time, just to reach the final boss and have one attempt at it, and likely get destroyed several times there in the process. It isn't fun any more, and it isn't any more challenging having to play through the same areas several times.

So, TL;DR: Cave Story is really fun. Pretend there's no good ending.

[Kuildeous]

It seems like games are trying to entice additional game hours with hard-to-accomplish goals. What you describe fits that category. I found something similar in Braid. I enjoyed working for the puzzle pieces in Braid and got most of them without resorting to spoilers. But one of these spoilers talked about getting something else I had never seen before. Turns out they're all over the place, but getting to them is not intuitive. You had to do some outrageous nonobvious moves to discover them.

I started to collect the hidden gewgaws, but then the thrill of collecting them didn't last long since I could only get them by reading about them on a spoiler page. I wasn't really doing the collecting. I don't know what the ending was like in Braid when everything is found, but I wasn't interested.

I enjoyed the good/bad ending in Bioshock. I especially liked it because you could get both without starting the game over. Play the game through where your character takes the noble route. After you complete the good ending, go back to a save a bit before the final scene and start murdering children. Then you can see the bad ending. I think there were actually three endings, so you had to be really bad for the bad ending. Maybe the middle ending was if you only killed a couple of girls. I don't remember that well. I may have to boot that game up again soon.

[LastFootnote]

It seems like games are trying to entice additional game hours with hard-to-accomplish goals. What you describe fits that category.

Cave Story is a game made entirely by one guy (Daisuke Amaya) over the course of 5 years, and released for free on PC. I somehow don't think "enticing additional game hours" entered into the equation. It's just, he wanted to have some challenging optional content.

As for the complaint of not having a checkpoint right before the final, optional boss, I think you can blame that on the save structure of the game. If I recall correctly, when you die you go back to your last save, right? So if there was a save point anywhere in that final optional area, you'd be locked into it and unable to go back and get a different, less-challenging ending if you changed your mind. So I can see why it was done even if it was a mistake in retrospect. I also have not beaten that boss and possibly never will.

Great game, though.

[Tables]

As for the complaint of not having a checkpoint right before the final, optional boss, I think you can blame that on the save structure of the game. If I recall correctly, when you die you go back to your last save, right? So if there was a save point anywhere in that final optional area, you'd be locked into it and unable to go back and get a different, less-challenging ending if you changed your mind. So I can see why it was done even if it was a mistake in retrospect. I also have not beaten that boss and possibly never will.

Great game, though.

The final save point is literally right after the point of no return - so that argument doesn't hold ground.

[LastFootnote]

As for the complaint of not having a checkpoint right before the final, optional boss, I think you can blame that on the save structure of the game. If I recall correctly, when you die you go back to your last save, right? So if there was a save point anywhere in that final optional area, you'd be locked into it and unable to go back and get a different, less-challenging ending if you changed your mind. So I can see why it was done even if it was a mistake in retrospect. I also have not beaten that boss and possibly never will.

Great game, though.

The final save point is literally right after the point of no return - so that argument doesn't hold ground.

I though it was in the small hut, and you could still exit it.

EDIT: Yep, I'm right.

*In the prefab building right before Hell, if you talk to the bookshelf it can teleport you back to right outside the throne room. I never knew bookshelves had teleporting abilities.

[Tables]

You are correct it's in the hut. You are incorrect that you can still exit it. The door is blocked.

Edit: Wait, just noticed that quote... uh, okay. That's... weird. It works, but... why do that?

[Accatitippi]

I just found out that the professors of next week's exam grade papers by fitting the students' scores into a normal distribution and then give out "predetermined" grades to everybody. So we already know that (say) 10% of us will get A's, 40% will get B's and so on.

Apart from being fucking idiotic, it's a pretty barebone case of prisoner's dilemma.

And sadly that's probably the most interesting thing related to this exam.   

[Haddock]

I just found out that the professors of next week's exam grade papers by fitting the students' scores into a normal distribution and then give out "predetermined" grades to everybody. So we already know that (say) 10% of us will get A's, 40% will get B's and so on.

Apart from being fucking idiotic, it's a pretty barebone case of prisoner's dilemma.

And sadly that's probably the most interesting thing related to this exam.   

To be fair, this is an incredibly common thing to do, to various extents.  If it is truly as direct and simple as you describe, it's pretty much a travesty.  But scaling with a rough percentage-of-grades intent is totally normal, and is/can be (often, to my mind at least) completely acceptable.

[Accatitippi]

I just found out that the professors of next week's exam grade papers by fitting the students' scores into a normal distribution and then give out "predetermined" grades to everybody. So we already know that (say) 10% of us will get A's, 40% will get B's and so on.

Apart from being fucking idiotic, it's a pretty barebone case of prisoner's dilemma.

And sadly that's probably the most interesting thing related to this exam.   

To be fair, this is an incredibly common thing to do, to various extents.  If it is truly as direct and simple as you describe, it's pretty much a travesty.  But scaling with a rough percentage-of-grades intent is totally normal, and is/can be (often, to my mind at least) completely acceptable.

Sure, but not in a session-by-session way like these guys do. Their rationale is that "we adjust to the difficulty of each single exam session". The exam is 3 open questions, you have to write as much as you can (and it really is a matter of quantity over quality, as long as you write correct stuff) on two of those of your choice. And they change questions each time, but they are the same for the whole class each time.

I know it's common, and in general the concept is sound, but it's also very commonly misused at my University.

At an oral exam, a friend of mine once was essentially told that the professor had run out of A+ for the exam, given that he didn't want to give more A+ than 1/20 students. Will an A do? (to be fair, that professor has since lost his job, due to him asking students to attach a picture of ourselves to our written exams so that he could recognize the names on the paper).
And I'm not exagerating.

[pacovf]

But scaling with a rough percentage-of-grades intent is totally normal

I see what you did there.

I once had a teacher adjust the average grade of the class to the equivalent of 50% during the first term, then to 65% during the second one.  Granted, the grades were irrelevant for the most part, but man grades the first term were depressing.

[pingpongsam]

I just found out that the professors of next week's exam grade papers by fitting the students' scores into a normal distribution and then give out "predetermined" grades to everybody. So we already know that (say) 10% of us will get A's, 40% will get B's and so on.

Apart from being fucking idiotic, it's a pretty barebone case of prisoner's dilemma.

And sadly that's probably the most interesting thing related to this exam.   

Curving should never arbitrarily lower a grade. The converse is acceptable, however.

[Tables]

From what I understand, this is how the new English KS2 SATS exams (11yo tests) work. They're a genius* scaling idea. Basically, the results are set so that after the scores are in, everyone's scores are adjusted to be between 80 and 120, which is clearly a genius* range since it has an obvious middle etc. They're also adjusted so that 80% of pupils score at least 100, which is the mean, which seems like a genius* move, as it means most kids are better than average - after all, a few years ago it was found that half of schools were below average, and that's not acceptable. Now the majority of kids are average or above average, and all we had to do was fudge the numbers a bit - genius*!

*genius may mean idiotic in this post.

[2.71828.....]

I just found out that the professors of next week's exam grade papers by fitting the students' scores into a normal distribution and then give out "predetermined" grades to everybody. So we already know that (say) 10% of us will get A's, 40% will get B's and so on.

Apart from being fucking idiotic, it's a pretty barebone case of prisoner's dilemma.

And sadly that's probably the most interesting thing related to this exam.   

Curving should never arbitrarily lower a grade. The converse is acceptable, however.

I always loved when people would ask if a certain test/assignment would be graded "on a curve" when what they really wanted was just bonus points to make their grade look better.

[Tables]

Note: I think the scaling might actually not be set so 80% get at least 100, but it's definitely a majority scoring at least that amount and an average well above 100. And honestly, the results that come out of this are pretty useless, for a few reasons.

There's not much scrutiny and oversight for the Key Stage 2 SATs, perhaps because the kids don't get any qualification from them, just a result, perhaps because they're the only tests kids do in Primary School - so about 4-5 tests (English and Maths, possibly also Science - not entirely sure), once a year. Compared to Secondary Schools which have literally hundreds of exams each year, often over several different exam seasons, plus several mocks done under formal conditions, and the exams lead to something so there's a lot more rules and regulations regarding their security.

Since those few tests are one of the main things a primary school gets judged on, they have heavy incentive to cheat. This can be done in a few ways - overlooking kids breaking normal exam conditions such as helping each other or quiet wispers, having posters/display boards with relevant/useful work still visible, or even more extreme things like teachers giving kids answers or hints. Obviously, not good when it happens. We have no formal evidence of it happening (I work in a Secondary School maths department) but there's a few primary schools we've noticed. The kids from there always seem to have considerably better results than their actual ability shows in year 7. On the old level system (levels 3-5), it could be a whole level different or more when we give them tests - to put that into context, kids are expected to make about 2/3rds of a level of progress each year, so this is like they've regressed 1-2 years of progress compared to what the SATs said they were at, right after they arrive.

Primary Schools also end up teaching to the test, since they want their results to be as good as possible. Well, okay, even Secondary Schools do that, but it's more of an issue with Primaries since they're feeding kids up the system. The kids aren't getting anything out of this, except maybe some ego from a good result. But their understanding suffers, since they're being taught how to solve SATs paper problems, not how to use maths in general. With GCSEs (year 11/16YO tests), you teach to the test and a kid gets a good grade. Their actual understanding may be a tiny bit worse off than if you taught more thoroughly and whatever, but their employers/colleges care more about that grade number for getting on the course.

On top of that, to get good results, what a lot of Primaries do in year 6 now is having longer Maths and English lessons throughout the first 2/3rds of year 6, then after the SATs in early May, they do no more Maths/English for the rest of the year. What that ends up meaning is that between May and September when they start Secondary School they do no Maths, and little direct English - and especially in Maths, their ability suffers as a result. We're getting kids into school who in theory are really good at maths, but in practice are struggling with questions aimed at middle ability kids, since they haven't done maths in so long. This bit does eventually even out a little, but they still end up a bit weaker thanks to it.

What my school has done in the past is to give kids a test just a week or two into year 7, and arranged ability based sets on the results of that test. The result would normally be pretty good - most kids, after doing tests at the end of the first term, would get results which more or less match their set - you'd normally see maybe 5-10% of kids moving up or down one set because we've noticed they're too adept/not strong enough at maths compared to the rest of the group. This year, we used the SATs results, for speed at the start of the year. And oh boy was it interesting. A good 30-40% of the year group had to move sets. About 2-3% of the year had to move by more than one set, indicating that they'd been massively misplaced. One of the middle ability sets had almost 60% of the kids move up or down, so it basically became a completely new set. You get the idea - these results were crazy inaccurate compared to our own measurements.

And the best part of all this? Secondary Schools get measured quite heavily at the moment based on kids making "expected progress". What is this expected progress based on, you ask? Why, their KS2 SATs results, of course! We get judged, for instance, on a kid making little progress from their fantastic KS2 result, when we know that result was probably gotten through cheating/coaching through exams and that we can't expect to match that, since the kid just isn't that adept at maths. Of course, that's not to say we're the only school facing that issue, but it's bad for us and it's also bad for balancing support - the school is expected to provide extra support to these "underachieving" kids, since well <i>obviously</i> they can do better if you look at their KS2 results, but of course this extra support has to come from somewhere, so it eats up resources that could better support other students who might benefit more from it.

Sorry this got a little ranty. Education in the UK is a bit of a mess at the moment, and the new KS2 SATs are certainly not helping the issue. But maybe this was an entertaining or at least enlightening read - or at least helped you get some sleep? Any of those would be a success I guess.

[pacovf]

What my school has done in the past is to give kids a test just a week or two into year 7, and arranged ability based sets on the results of that test. The result would normally be pretty good - most kids, after doing tests at the end of the first term, would get results which more or less match their set - you'd normally see maybe 5-10% of kids moving up or down one set because we've noticed they're too adept/not strong enough at maths compared to the rest of the group. This year, we used the SATs results, for speed at the start of the year. And oh boy was it interesting. A good 30-40% of the year group had to move sets. About 2-3% of the year had to move by more than one set, indicating that they'd been massively misplaced. One of the middle ability sets had almost 60% of the kids move up or down, so it basically became a completely new set. You get the idea - these results were crazy inaccurate compared to our own measurements.

To be perfectly fair / play Devil's advocate, you are measuring the kids' abilities to do well on your own tests, so obviously your own tests will be a better predictor than somebody else's.

But I get your point.

[Kirian]

Sorry this got a little ranty. Education in the UK is a bit of a mess at the moment, and the new KS2 SATs are certainly not helping the issue. But maybe this was an entertaining or at least enlightening read - or at least helped you get some sleep? Any of those would be a success I guess.

Well, it made me realize that the US isn't the only country doing things this stupidly.

----

On the original subject, I agree with the earlier statement that increasing a grade is fine, but arbitrarily decreasing a grade is not.  At least at the places I've taught, you're expected to have a grading scale in the syllabus.  So if the scale says 80% is the lowest for a B-, and a student gets 81%, you cannot give them a grade lower than B-.

However, if the student earned a B- for 81% but the grade was entered as a B+, somehow you never get complaints.

My standard scaling system is that I take the median score and scale it upward to 80 (B-/C+ cutoff) if needed, by stretching in a linear fashion; if the real median is lower, everyone gets a scaled score of

score + [(100-score)*((80-median)/(100-median))]

[Accatitippi]

We have an eerily similar problem in Italy as well.
Fortunately these standardized tests matter a lot less here, because the reliability is crazy low due to cheating.
I believe they are mostly used to single out problem schools, but do not have a big impact on the students' careers.

I think that's one nice thing about the system here - grades in general matter quite little before university, so you cannot get screwed by a difficult teacher or a bad year.

And here done random considerations:
I've generally been opposed to grading everything - either you're good enough, or you are not. Maybe add one very good mark.
My school's grading system for example is crazy dangerous. The general concept is based on the fact that med students are hard working nerds who care a lot about grades (and sure most of us are). We have a scale going 1 to 30+, 18 is the first passing grade.
But most of the grades given are above 27: the general perception (shared by the professors) is that 27 is mediocrity, 23 is utter failure. 18 is catastrophe.
The system works ok in describing various shades of success - which is pretty useless since it's a good measure of hardworkiness (?), but not of what the student will know 3 years later, which is when it will matter.
But the system fails completely in its most important function: ensuring that the unbaked cakes are stopped before becoming doctors. If I suddenly stopped caring, I could still get through med school with passing grades. I wouldn't get a great job maybe but I'd get one for sure.

In fact, exchange students coming here are shocked at how easy med school is - if you are not part of the "23 sucks" culture, then it *is* incredibly easy.

Am I grumpy today.

[Kuildeous]

"You can divide me in 2, but 1 will always remain," Tom said oddly.

[silverspawn]

"You can divide me in 2, but 1 will always remain," Tom said oddly.

"My wedding was cancelled a tenth of the way through," Tom said, decimated.

[LastFootnote]

"You can divide me in 2, but 1 will always remain," Tom said oddly.

"My wedding was cancelled a tenth of the way through," Tom said, decimated.

Wouldn't that be nine tenths of the way through?

[Kuildeous]

"I always count by 3s," Tom said discretely.

Though there may need to be a ruling on homonyms.

[silverspawn]

Assuming you're drawing from the same source I do, I must admit that I only got a rather small proportion of puns. Most of them went over my head.

[Tables]

What my school has done in the past is to give kids a test just a week or two into year 7, and arranged ability based sets on the results of that test. The result would normally be pretty good - most kids, after doing tests at the end of the first term, would get results which more or less match their set - you'd normally see maybe 5-10% of kids moving up or down one set because we've noticed they're too adept/not strong enough at maths compared to the rest of the group. This year, we used the SATs results, for speed at the start of the year. And oh boy was it interesting. A good 30-40% of the year group had to move sets. About 2-3% of the year had to move by more than one set, indicating that they'd been massively misplaced. One of the middle ability sets had almost 60% of the kids move up or down, so it basically became a completely new set. You get the idea - these results were crazy inaccurate compared to our own measurements.

To be perfectly fair / play Devil's advocate, you are measuring the kids' abilities to do well on your own tests, so obviously your own tests will be a better predictor than somebody else's.

But I get your point.

We use past SATs papers, not our own tests. So it's the same kind of paper they've sat a few months before.

[Donald X.]

"I gain a Gold," Tom said heroically.
"I gain a Rats," Tom said roguishly.
"I reveal Province, putting it into my hand," Tom said sagely.

[pacovf]

What my school has done in the past is to give kids a test just a week or two into year 7, and arranged ability based sets on the results of that test. The result would normally be pretty good - most kids, after doing tests at the end of the first term, would get results which more or less match their set - you'd normally see maybe 5-10% of kids moving up or down one set because we've noticed they're too adept/not strong enough at maths compared to the rest of the group. This year, we used the SATs results, for speed at the start of the year. And oh boy was it interesting. A good 30-40% of the year group had to move sets. About 2-3% of the year had to move by more than one set, indicating that they'd been massively misplaced. One of the middle ability sets had almost 60% of the kids move up or down, so it basically became a completely new set. You get the idea - these results were crazy inaccurate compared to our own measurements.

To be perfectly fair / play Devil's advocate, you are measuring the kids' abilities to do well on your own tests, so obviously your own tests will be a better predictor than somebody else's.

But I get your point.

We use past SATs papers, not our own tests. So it's the same kind of paper they've sat a few months before.

I am confused. How are SAT tests a better predictor when your school uses them, rather than other schools? Just because you enforce non-cheating measures better?

Sounds like paper material to me, though maybe everyone is already aware of this.

[Kuildeous]

Assuming you're drawing from the same source I do, I must admit that I only got a rather small proportion of puns. Most of them went over my head.

Tom Swifty quotes are a play on word where Tom says something in an adverb way. The adverb is tied to the quote itself. I'm sure there are web sites full of them. They're usually just goofy. For example: "My car needs a new muffler," Tom said exhaustedly. Since the muffler is part of the exhaust, that ties into the adverb. They are admittedly very language-dependent.

And sometimes I just like to make some up, like the two math Swifty quotes I posted. Also: "I can't believe she's pregnant," Tom said hysterically.

I like my Swifty quotes abstruse.

[Dylan32]

Assuming you're drawing from the same source I do, I must admit that I only got a rather small proportion of puns. Most of them went over my head.

Tom Swifty quotes are a play on word where Tom says something in an adverb way. The adverb is tied to the quote itself. I'm sure there are web sites full of them. They're usually just goofy. For example: "My car needs a new muffler," Tom said exhaustedly. Since the muffler is part of the exhaust, that ties into the adverb. They are admittedly very language-dependent.

And sometimes I just like to make some up, like the two math Swifty quotes I posted. Also: "I can't believe she's pregnant," Tom said hysterically.

I like my Swifty quotes abstruse.

"Well, I've gotta run," Tom said swiftly.

Layers

[Kuildeous]

"THE NUMBERS KEEP GOING WITH NO PATTERN!" Tom screamed irrationally.

[silverspawn]

that's a great one!

[GendoIkari]

Any other former cub/boy scouts here who remember Tom Swifty quotes from Boys Life magazine?

[Awaclus]

Here's a former scout for you:

[2.71828.....]

Any other former cub/boy scouts here who remember Tom Swifty quotes from Boys Life magazine?

That was so long ago.....i say as if I am actually really old. This year did mark 4 years since graduating college, 8 years since high school, so 12 years since I got my eagle scout and then didn't do anything else with scouts after that.

[Awaclus]

Any other former cub/boy scouts here who remember Tom Swifty quotes from Boys Life magazine?

That was so long ago.....i say as if I am actually really old. This year did mark 4 years since graduating college, 8 years since high school, so 12 years since I got my eagle scout and then didn't do anything else with scouts after that.

What did you achieve 16 years ago?

[2.71828.....]

Any other former cub/boy scouts here who remember Tom Swifty quotes from Boys Life magazine?

That was so long ago.....i say as if I am actually really old. This year did mark 4 years since graduating college, 8 years since high school, so 12 years since I got my eagle scout and then didn't do anything else with scouts after that.

What did you achieve 16 years ago?

Not might actually. They let me pass the 4th grade.

[Kirian]

Any other former cub/boy scouts here who remember Tom Swifty quotes from Boys Life magazine?

Yup.  Though I'm much older than e apparently.  High school was 23 years ago...

Also: "There's a bear out there," Tom said intently.

[ConMan]

For some reason the only Swifty that I can always recall is kind of RSP. Spoilered for content.

"I'm a homosexual necrophiliac," said Tom in dead earnest.

[Kuildeous]

Any other former cub/boy scouts here who remember Tom Swifty quotes from Boys Life magazine?

In fact, I don't recall ever seeing Tom Swifty quotes anywhere outside of Boys' Life magazine while growing up. I'm sure they had to exist elsewhere, but that was indeed my main source of Tom Swifty. I'm finding a new appreciation for them nowadays. I guess they appeal to my "dad jokes" even though I'm not a dad. But you know, puns. I enjoy the challenge of making new ones up. There are so many out there, that it's possible I'm reusing some adverbs, but hopefully I introduce a new phrase to go with them.

Friend of mine had a neat one: "I'm so glad those ice balls stopped falling from the sky," Tom exhaled.

One I thought of while in the shower: "I was raised on the mean streets of Paris," Tom said ruefully.

[Tables]

I am confused. How are SAT tests a better predictor when your school uses them, rather than other schools? Just because you enforce non-cheating measures better?

That's one reason, yes. We know the kids have all sat the papers under the same conditions, with no additional help beyond what you're normally entitled to. So it controls for those schools whose scores seem to inflate with no real explanation (cough cheating).

Another reason is that it gives a much better indication of what the kids actually know now - recall I mentioned many of these kids will have done no/little maths between the SATs in early May and starting Secondary School in early September. Some will have forgotten various things and will be generally slower and less able to work out how to solve problems as a result.

A third reason, which actually doesn't matter so much any more, was to do with the old system which was level based. The KS2 paper was levels 3-5, but you could sit a supplementary level 6 paper. I forget the exact details but IIRC you needed to get at least a level 5 on the normal papers, and then a level 6 on that paper. Sounds reasonable, but in practice due to a slightly weird way of distributing the levels I don't understand, it was possible to get kids who were low/mid level 5 capability to get a level 6, and if they did it was all flowers and sunshine for the Primary School. But well those kids come to us, and they're typically more like low level 5 standard in most cases, with knowledge of a few slightly more advanced things, and can't really keep up in the top set(s). So for those pupils who came to us with a "level 6", there was a huge range in their actual ability which we didn't really know about. Like I mentioned, this one is obsolete now the new SATs system has come in, but it was definitely a factor before.

The final advantage is that it gave us a greater deal of information and accuracy. The SATs data we used to get was just a level and sublevel (3 sublevels per level), so basically about 9 main possible options, plus a few on nominal lower levels (2a, 2b, 2c or U). With our own tests, we could look at each individual question, or at least each main topic (Number, Algebra, Shape, Data being the four broad areas covered in KS1-3 maths) and see how kids performed. This isn't usually that valuable, since most kids don't have a particularly notable strength/weakness, but a few do, and for those having the physical data/evidence on hand is great. We also got an actual mark for each kid, between 0 and 150, which is at least a little more useful than a level. Now we get the new SATs scores, which has about 41 data points - so that's a fair bit more useful than the old numbers - but still tells us nothing about individual topics a kid might be good/bad in.

So in short... there's several advantages to using past papers instead of their KS2 results. There's disadvantages as well, of course - the main one is that it causes a lot of disruption in terms of timetabling, since we need to give these kids the tests, then change everyone's maths sets, and that can have knock on effects to other departments. It also creates a few hours of extra marking. And a particularly wily kid can work out which past paper they're doing and cheat. But it's a rare year 7 that can actually pull that off and get away with it - when a kid gets e.g. 24/60 on paper 1, then 55/60 on paper 2 and 29/30 on the mental test, we tend to get just a <i>little</i> suspicious.

[Kuildeous]

Redownloaded Pokemon Go. Looks like it may have been 9 months since we last played. Now to hunt down all the new stuff that's been added.

[Awaclus]

I just experienced sleep paralysis for the first time last night. Fortunately, it was pretty short (10-20 seconds I think, probably closer to 10) but still, it was by far the most terrifying experience I've ever had. It was pretty neat in a way, too, but I can imagine that it must be really awful to get these on a regular basis and especially if they're longer.

[Kirian]

I just experienced sleep paralysis for the first time last night. Fortunately, it was pretty short (10-20 seconds I think, probably closer to 10) but still, it was by far the most terrifying experience I've ever had. It was pretty neat in a way, too, but I can imagine that it must be really awful to get these on a regular basis and especially if they're longer.

Ugh, yeah, it's horrifying.  It's really horrifying if you've had seizures that cause partial paralysis and you can't tell if it's a seizure!  Fun times.  Thankfully it was onlya couple times.

[Kuildeous]

Man, $6k to replace my AC system. Homeownership can be a pain sometime.

But then I remember that I have literally saved tens of thousands of dollars on rent.

[theory]

Man, $6k to replace my AC system. Homeownership can be a pain sometime.

But then I remember that I have literally saved tens of thousands of dollars on rent.

Netted against your PITI payments + the hypothetical market return of your down payment had you invested it

[pingpongsam]

Man, $6k to replace my AC system. Homeownership can be a pain sometime.

But then I remember that I have literally saved tens of thousands of dollars on rent.

I spent a few thousand 3 years ago and just found out last week from a family-friend pro that the reason we have to run a dehumidifier 24/7 and the a/cv never shuts off yet we stay at 75F all the time is because the unit was undersized for the house.

[Kirian]

Man, $6k to replace my AC system. Homeownership can be a pain sometime.

But then I remember that I have literally saved tens of thousands of dollars on rent.

Netted against your PITI payments + the hypothetical market return of your down payment had you invested it

What a killjoy.

Also there are a bunch of other non-monetary factors to consider.  If I were still in an apartment right now rather than having bought a house I'd be seriously depressed.

[sudgy]

I just experienced sleep paralysis for the first time last night. Fortunately, it was pretty short (10-20 seconds I think, probably closer to 10) but still, it was by far the most terrifying experience I've ever had. It was pretty neat in a way, too, but I can imagine that it must be really awful to get these on a regular basis and especially if they're longer.

The one time it happened to me, I was so thankful that I knew what it was.  It definitely made it way less scary.

[Kuildeous]

I can't say with certainty that I saved someone's life, but I like to think that my vigorous horn blasting alerted the cyclist and the cross-street motorist to the guy next to me who decided to pull through the red light.

The traffic light was admittedly weird. It's a funky intersection where we have a traffic light at the first crossroads and then another traffic light at a crossroads about 50 feet past that. The second set of lights turned green, and the driver must have thought that was for us. Our light remained red. The driver stopped in the intersection which let the other driver go behind him and the cyclist go in front of him. It does make me wonder what would have happened if the driver had not stopped. Fortunately I'll never know.

[Kuildeous]

Holy shit, cruises are expensive. I know this is a duh-doy statement, but it's more expensive than the initial price tag. I thought that it'd be a one-and-done deal. Nope, after the initial purchase, there are other things happening. Excursions can be hundreds of dollars extra if you want to go do things like fly over glaciers and ride in trams. I imagine that sitting on a ship for 7 days straight can be pretty boring. But once the sticker shock wore off, I can understand it. After all, the cruise line isn't offering dog sleds or fly fishing or hovercrafts. Those people have got to make a living too.

But then there are little things on the ship. A can of soda costs $3. Or you can buy the drink package for $7 a day. It pays for itself with only three sodas! It makes me so glad I gave up soda, but not everyone has. Apparently if you want coffee other than at mealtime, that's another cost. Wi-fi costs money too, which isn't unexpected, but it's no less annoying.

I'm starting to regret this cruise already, and I won't be traveling for another month and a half. Maybe if I can get all my loathing out now while I'm paying for everything, I can actually get to relaxing on the cruise. Right now, it's the opposite of relaxation for me.

[Witherweaver]

Oh hey, anyone live in Louisville Kentucky?  I'm going to be there for the next four days for my friend's bachelor party type thing.

[Awaclus]

Oh hey, anyone live in Louisville Kentucky?

Yeah, someone lives there. Quite a lot of people actually, around 760 000. Hope this helps!

[Seprix]

Oh hey, anyone live in Louisville Kentucky?

Yeah, someone lives there. Quite a lot of people actually, around 760 000. Hope this helps!

The context is that someone from here would live in Louisville Kentucky.

Given that there are approximately 7,347,000,000 people in this world, 5,244 total members, and 760,000 people in Louisville, what is the statistical probability of a user from F.DS being located within this section of the world?

[Awaclus]

90-93%

[2.71828.....]

Oh hey, anyone live in Louisville Kentucky?

Yeah, someone lives there. Quite a lot of people actually, around 760 000. Hope this helps!

The context is that someone from here would live in Louisville Kentucky.

Given that there are approximately 7,347,000,000 people in this world, 5,244 total members, and 760,000 people in Louisville, what is the statistical probability of a user from F.DS being located within this section of the world?

More importantly: are you a Kentucky or Louisville fan? Referring to their college basketball teams of course. Living in that city allegiances must be clear

[Witherweaver]

I'll take this all as a "no".

[Kirian]

Oh hey, anyone live in Louisville Kentucky?

Yeah, someone lives there. Quite a lot of people actually, around 760 000. Hope this helps!

The context is that someone from here would live in Louisville Kentucky.

Given that there are approximately 7,347,000,000 people in this world, 5,244 total members, and 760,000 people in Louisville, what is the statistical probability of a user from F.DS being located within this section of the world?

Context shmontext, taking things at complete and perfect face value is the best way to ensure proper miscommunication!

I'll take this all as a "no".

Alas, I suspect you're right, although there may be people who don't drop into the Random Stuff thread, so you might be better off starting a thread that asks about members from Louisville in the title.

[Kuildeous]

Context shmontext, taking things at complete and perfect face value is the best way to ensure proper miscommunication!

THIS IS INTERWEBZ!

[silverspawn]

Oh hey, anyone live in Louisville Kentucky?

Yeah, someone lives there. Quite a lot of people actually, around 760 000. Hope this helps!

The context is that someone from here would live in Louisville Kentucky.

Given that there are approximately 7,347,000,000 people in this world, 5,244 total members, and 760,000 people in Louisville, what is the statistical probability of a user from F.DS being located within this section of the world?

1 – {Product: i = 0 to 759999 of [(7347000000 – i – 5244) / (7347000000 – i)]}

I think. This is confusing me slightly.

[Mic Qsenoch]

I remember the day I was randomly selected from a uniform distribution across the planet's population to become a member of f.DS

[silverspawn]

I do, too. I was on the lookout for discussion.

[Tables]

I do, too. I was on the lookout for discussion.

Take your upvote and get out.

[liopoil]

Oh hey, anyone live in Louisville Kentucky?

Yeah, someone lives there. Quite a lot of people actually, around 760 000. Hope this helps!

The context is that someone from here would live in Louisville Kentucky.

Given that there are approximately 7,347,000,000 people in this world, 5,244 total members, and 760,000 people in Louisville, what is the statistical probability of a user from F.DS being located within this section of the world?

1 – {Product: i = 0 to 759999 of [(7347000000 – i – 5244) / (7347000000 – i)]}

I think. This is confusing me slightly.

Alternatively, the probability is at least 1 - (1 - 76/737400)⁵²⁴⁴ = 0.4175429... and at most 1 - (1 - 76/737399)⁵²⁴⁴ = 0.4175433...

Close enough for you?

[Kirian]

Context shmontext, taking things at complete and perfect face value is the best way to ensure proper miscommunication!

Meanwhile, I was ninjaed by xkcd:

[sudgy]

Oh hey, anyone live in Louisville Kentucky?

Yeah, someone lives there. Quite a lot of people actually, around 760 000. Hope this helps!

The context is that someone from here would live in Louisville Kentucky.

Given that there are approximately 7,347,000,000 people in this world, 5,244 total members, and 760,000 people in Louisville, what is the statistical probability of a user from F.DS being located within this section of the world?

1 – {Product: i = 0 to 759999 of [(7347000000 – i – 5244) / (7347000000 – i)]}

I think. This is confusing me slightly.

But who is able to use the internet?  And who would have access to Dominion?

[AndrewisFTTW]

Sometimes I really love the internet:

http://fwc.wikia.com/wiki/Moss_Covered_Three_Handled_Family_Gredunza

[Kirian]

Sometimes I really love the internet:

http://fwc.wikia.com/wiki/Moss_Covered_Three_Handled_Family_Gredunza

I'm shocked, shocked I say, that this comes from Fark.

[Awaclus]

Oh hey, anyone live in Louisville Kentucky?

Yeah, someone lives there. Quite a lot of people actually, around 760 000. Hope this helps!

The context is that someone from here would live in Louisville Kentucky.

Given that there are approximately 7,347,000,000 people in this world, 5,244 total members, and 760,000 people in Louisville, what is the statistical probability of a user from F.DS being located within this section of the world?

1 – {Product: i = 0 to 759999 of [(7347000000 – i – 5244) / (7347000000 – i)]}

I think. This is confusing me slightly.

But who is able to use the internet?  And who would have access to Dominion?

It's also worth noting that while there are 5244 users here, there aren't that many people. In fact, there are only Wandering Winder and sudgy.

[RAwaclus]

Oh hey, anyone live in Louisville Kentucky?

Yeah, someone lives there. Quite a lot of people actually, around 760 000. Hope this helps!

The context is that someone from here would live in Louisville Kentucky.

Given that there are approximately 7,347,000,000 people in this world, 5,244 total members, and 760,000 people in Louisville, what is the statistical probability of a user from F.DS being located within this section of the world?

1 – {Product: i = 0 to 759999 of [(7347000000 – i – 5244) / (7347000000 – i)]}

I think. This is confusing me slightly.

But who is able to use the internet?  And who would have access to Dominion?

It's also worth noting that while there are 5244 users here, there aren't that many people. In fact, there are only Wandering Winder and sudgy.

Actually those are both my smurfs.

[crax]

How do you know if a topic is worth it's own thread or if it should just be mentioned in here?

[pingpongsam]

How do you know if a topic is worth it's own thread or if it should just be mentioned in here?

It's a case of if you have to ask...

Also, if conversation sparks up enough around it someone might start a thread on that topic. More often though we just abuse this thread until it does.

[Awaclus]

How do you know if a topic is worth it's own thread or if it should just be mentioned in here?

Well, the short answer is that you don't, and so it doesn't really matter if you do it the "wrong" way.

But in general, if your topic matches at least one of these descriptions, you might want to create a new thread:

• It's Dominion related
• It's RSP related (because you can't post that in General Discussion)
• It's an advertisement (same as above)
• It's a larger general subject
• It's a topic you've been interested in for a long time
• The topic is most likely going to be relevant for longer than a week or so
• Someone is most likely going to want to talk about the subject without directly responding to what you are saying
• You want to encourage people to keep talking about the subject even after they're done responding to you specifically
• You want to draw more attention to the topic than you would get in Random Stuff

[markusin]

I just realised the other day that I don't understand gravity.

In high school and my undergrad mechanical engineering physics courses, gravity was treated as a force in those force diagrams, acting on the center of mass of each object. But, gravity is not exactly a force, right? A force's impact on your movement depends on your inertia, but gravitational acceleration is independent of mass. In those physics classes, gravitational force actually scaled positively with the mass it was applied on. Doesn't that sound completely backwards when you think about it? I also get the sense that all forces you might "feel" from gravity are just from reactionary forces, or come about because perfect "rigid bodies" aren't a reality.

Supposedly gravity is what happens when mass curves spacetime or something, and it's almost like it curves what would normally be straight trajectory without gravity. But then, if you jump up from the ground of the Earth perpendicular to the surface, you accelerate, or "fall" straight back down. Was that jump actually a heavily curved trajectory that got curved due to gravity or something like that?

I wonder if it's a scientific right of passage to realise you don't really understand gravity. Can anyone here chime in to clarify any misconceptions I have or something?

[sudgy]

In high school and my undergrad mechanical engineering physics courses, gravity was treated as a force in those force diagrams, acting on the center of mass of each object. But, gravity is not exactly a force, right? A force's impact on your movement depends on your inertia, but gravitational acceleration is independent of mass. In those physics classes, gravitational force actually scaled positively with the mass it was applied on. Doesn't that sound completely backwards when you think about it? I also get the sense that all forces you might "feel" from gravity are just from reactionary forces, or come about because perfect "rigid bodies" aren't a reality.

What's so weird about all of this?  When thought of as a force, gravity is just a force that is proportional to mass, just like how the electrostatic force is proportional to electric charge.  The fact that motion involves mass makes things seem more funky, but the equations still work out almost exactly the same.

Supposedly gravity is what happens when mass curves spacetime or something, and it's almost like it curves what would normally be straight trajectory without gravity. But then, if you jump up from the ground of the Earth perpendicular to the surface, you accelerate, or "fall" straight back down. Was that jump actually a heavily curved trajectory that got curved due to gravity or something like that?

During your jump, you are also moving in time, so even at the start of your jump you are moving diagonally.  Then the curvature of spacetime makes that path slowly curve back down.

[markusin]

In high school and my undergrad mechanical engineering physics courses, gravity was treated as a force in those force diagrams, acting on the center of mass of each object. But, gravity is not exactly a force, right? A force's impact on your movement depends on your inertia, but gravitational acceleration is independent of mass. In those physics classes, gravitational force actually scaled positively with the mass it was applied on. Doesn't that sound completely backwards when you think about it? I also get the sense that all forces you might "feel" from gravity are just from reactionary forces, or come about because perfect "rigid bodies" aren't a reality.

What's so weird about all of this?  When thought of as a force, gravity is just a force that is proportional to mass, just like how the electrostatic force is proportional to electric charge.  The fact that motion involves mass makes things seem more funky, but the equations still work out almost exactly the same.

Supposedly gravity is what happens when mass curves spacetime or something, and it's almost like it curves what would normally be straight trajectory without gravity. But then, if you jump up from the ground of the Earth perpendicular to the surface, you accelerate, or "fall" straight back down. Was that jump actually a heavily curved trajectory that got curved due to gravity or something like that?

During your jump, you are also moving in time, so even at the start of your jump you are moving diagonally.  Then the curvature of spacetime makes that path slowly curve back down.

Moving in time, eh? I guess it's not called "spacetime" for nothing. I guess if I think of my motion as having a time component, or vector, then it can make sense.

I get that gravity is a force that it proportional to mass. It's just a bit, uh, funky how forces produced by gravity are perfectly comparable to forces coming from say impact with an object having momentum.

[LastFootnote]

My 9-month old daughter just had her regular checkup, and now she needs to be re-tested for lead. Which is horrifying. Anybody have any info or stories to put that into perspective?

[pacovf]

I can't talk about this issue specifically, but the first thing would be to understand that false positives are a lot more common from regular checkups than you would expect, even for very efficient tests, just due to the sheer number of (healthy) people taking them and the number of random things being tested at once.

Of course, that doesn't mean this shouldn't be followed up on, but I don't think you should worry too much about it before the retest.

[pingpongsam]

Reminds me of a time when I had a buddy come work for our company and take the required drug test. initial results were that he failed it. I was really surprised and called the testing company to confirm. They in all cases they take two samples and retest in case of failure and they'd have results the next day. Sure enough the next day the test came back negative. I asked them what the chances of that happening were and they said about 1 in a  million which means it happens multiple times per day.

[markusin]

It turns out that 99% accuracy is still pretty bad when the real occurrence of what is being tested is much smaller that 1%. In other words, when the population not exhibiting the thing being tested for is much greater than 99%. This sad issue turns up in anomaly detection within a software context.

[LastFootnote]

I appreciate the support, guys. Unfortunately the second blood test came back and it was not a false positive.

I think it's likely caused by scraping and repainting our ancient house. Why did I let myself get suckered into this dump? *sigh*

[pacovf]

What did the doctor say?

[Dylan32]

I know a guy who is currently in college that had lead poisoning as a kid. I'm not going to say it didn't affect him, because it did, but overall he's fine and having a normal life now.  Without knowing any details, it sounds like you caught it early enough that it maybe hasn't gone too far and they'll be able to help her.

[LastFootnote]

She is apparently under the threshold at which they treat it. She's at 13. "Normal" is 5 or less. So on the one hand, it could be worse. But on the other hand, no treatment. I mean no amount of lead is good to have in your body. But I'm not sure it yet qualifies as "lead poisoning".

Mostly right now we're in a panic because we still don't know for sure what caused it. Our almost 4-year-old son has lived in the same house all his life and didn't have abnormally high lead levels on his 9-month screening.

We're starting preparations to move to a different house, this being the last and by far largest straw in a litany of old-house woes. In the meantime we're moving in with my parents (who live in a home built around 1985).

I'll feel better/worse once my wife and son have been screened. One big concern is that she's passing lead to our daughter through breast milk. If so we'll have to wean her early, but well whatever. Small price to pay.

[Polk5440]

Scraping and repainting an ancient house would do it, as I am learning from working on my "new" old house. Do you have any current projects underway? It would be worth getting some lead testing kits from the hardware store to test the old paint you are scraping. They are fairly cheap. If you need to finish a project, scraping/sanding should be either done by having someone hold a vacuum with a HEPA filter next to you or done wet. Also good to seal off the room in which you are working, if possible. Vacuum drop cloths; do not shake outside. Wash your hands religiously.

Less likely source could be the water. In our town, it's recommended that all baby formula should be mixed with bottled water even though EPA water tests all come back at acceptable levels. "Just to be safe." That does not inspire confidence to me.  If you have lead access pipes anywhere from the street or throughout the house and they are corroding or have otherwise gone bad, they could leeching lead into only your house. Our house had only one lead pipe in the basement, which was easy to bypass, but just to be safe, we switched to bottled water for drinking and cooking, anyway.

[LastFootnote]

Scraping and repainting an ancient house would do it, as I am learning from working on my "new" old house. Do you have any current projects underway? It would be worth getting some lead testing kits from the hardware store to test the old paint you are scraping. They are fairly cheap. If you need to finish a project, scraping/sanding should be either done by having someone hold a vacuum with a HEPA filter next to you or done wet. Also good to seal off the room in which you are working, if possible. Vacuum drop cloths; do not shake outside. Wash your hands religiously.

Less likely source could be the water. In our town, it's recommended that all baby formula should be mixed with bottled water even though EPA water tests all come back at acceptable levels. "Just to be safe." That does not inspire confidence to me.  If you have lead access pipes anywhere from the street or throughout the house and they are corroding or have otherwise gone bad, they could leeching lead into only your house. Our house had only one lead pipe in the basement, which was easy to bypass, but just to be safe, we switched to bottled water for drinking and cooking, anyway.

Thanks!

Yes, we were just scraping old paint (and did so last summer as well). By "we", I mean mostly my father-in-law. The paint is on the outside of the house. But we got testing kits to confirm that it's lead-based (it is) and also found out that the peeling paint on our porch interior is lead-based too. Possibly she ate some of that off the floor.

Today my son is getting his blood drawn for testing. Hopefully he's fine. He's shown no signs of developmental difficulties so far after living in this house for nearly 4 years (including through last summer's paint scraping). So, fingers crossed.

Anyway, once this issue became known, my father-in-law vacuumed the house and porch with a HEPA filter, and we're temporarily living with my parents at least until after an expert surveys our house for any more lead sources (tomorrow). We're also sending in a water sample for testing. Regardless of how all that turns out, we're still looking for a new place to live. Our current house just has too many things wrong with it.

[Polk5440]

Sounds like you're doing all the right things. I hope everything works out.

[Seprix]

Scraping and repainting an ancient house would do it, as I am learning from working on my "new" old house. Do you have any current projects underway? It would be worth getting some lead testing kits from the hardware store to test the old paint you are scraping. They are fairly cheap. If you need to finish a project, scraping/sanding should be either done by having someone hold a vacuum with a HEPA filter next to you or done wet. Also good to seal off the room in which you are working, if possible. Vacuum drop cloths; do not shake outside. Wash your hands religiously.

Less likely source could be the water. In our town, it's recommended that all baby formula should be mixed with bottled water even though EPA water tests all come back at acceptable levels. "Just to be safe." That does not inspire confidence to me.  If you have lead access pipes anywhere from the street or throughout the house and they are corroding or have otherwise gone bad, they could leeching lead into only your house. Our house had only one lead pipe in the basement, which was easy to bypass, but just to be safe, we switched to bottled water for drinking and cooking, anyway.

Thanks!

Yes, we were just scraping old paint (and did so last summer as well). By "we", I mean mostly my father-in-law. The paint is on the outside of the house. But we got testing kits to confirm that it's lead-based (it is) and also found out that the peeling paint on our porch interior is lead-based too. Possibly she ate some of that off the floor.

Today my son is getting his blood drawn for testing. Hopefully he's fine. He's shown no signs of developmental difficulties so far after living in this house for nearly 4 years (including through last summer's paint scraping). So, fingers crossed.

Anyway, once this issue became known, my father-in-law vacuumed the house and porch with a HEPA filter, and we're temporarily living with my parents at least until after an expert surveys our house for any more lead sources (tomorrow). We're also sending in a water sample for testing. Regardless of how all that turns out, we're still looking for a new place to live. Our current house just has too many things wrong with it.

...so that means I can't come over to visit. 

[silverspawn]

The Garden by perverse_idyll for lexigilite
Ron and Hermione move after a man party. What did her best things go and has to deal with people she loves? How many imperfect love really belonges them and needs to be a person? Or will they learn and more than the war?

Neural network writes Harry Potter Fanfiction

[jonts26]

Can't be worse than My Immortal.

[ConMan]

I hope that its training corpus included the seminal work "Lucius Malfoy and the Wibbly Wobbly Wand". Warning: NSFW, NSFBrain.

[schadd]

i did the thing where you jump on a train when it's accelerating and you move around and it reminds me of half life 2 speedrun

[schadd]

do you think that the first amendment thing will happen with net neutrality? like middle schoolers using it to argue against things beIng blocked on their school wifi

[silverspawn]

Where do you put the comma if you stack double and single quotation marks?

Like, "There is a thread about random stuff, it's called 'Random Stuff Part III'," said silver. Do you do '," or ,'"?

[schadd]

'," i believe

that's one of the weird things like punctuation with parentheses where if it were wrong in like an academic paper i don't think anyone would bat an eye

[Awaclus]

Where do you put the comma if you stack double and single quotation marks?

Like, "There is a thread about random stuff, it's called 'Random Stuff Part III'," said silver. Do you do '," or ,'"?

"There is a thread about random stuff, it's called 'Random Stuff Part III'", said silver. The comma is not a part of any of the quotations, so why put it inside them?

Ashersky and possibly some others are probably going to disagree.

[gkrieg13]

'," i believe

that's one of the weird things like punctuation with parentheses where if it were wrong in like an academic paper i don't think anyone would bat an eye

Unless it is in a grammar and punctuation journal.

[LaLight]

in russian we merge quotation and use only one type of quotation marks. "There is [..], it's called "Random Stuff III", said Silver

[SpaceAnemone]

Where do you put the comma if you stack double and single quotation marks?

Like, "There is a thread about random stuff, it's called 'Random Stuff Part III'," said silver. Do you do '," or ,'"?

"There is a thread about random stuff, it's called 'Random Stuff Part III'", said silver. The comma is not a part of any of the quotations, so why put it inside them?

This is one of the cases where there's a technical difference between British English and American English: American style guides put punctuation inside the quote even when it's not part of the quoted string itself, and British style guides leave the punctuation out so that the quoted string is exact. Therefore, being a Brit, I think Awaclus's version is correct :-)

[Witherweaver]

It's not even standard in American English; it's a convention, but not the only one. 

Though, really, I think you could argue that the exact quoted string is:

There is a thread about random stuff; it's called 'Random Stuff Part III'.

and make a case for:

"There is a thread about random stuff; it's called 'Random Stuff Part III'.", said silver.

The bulkiness is probably why this kind of thing isn't done in narrative.  In technical writing, I would always have exact strings inside quotes.

[sudgy]

I feel like there's two parts to this question:

1. Logical punctuation vs. typesetter's punctuation
2. How to end a narrative quote

For 2, every single thing I've seen says that when you're quoting, if the original ends in a period, you just turn it into a comma and don't have anything extra after the quote.  For 1, it's debatable and could go either way depending on your preference.  So, to my knowledge, the two best ways to do it would be either "There is a thread about random stuff; it's called 'Random Stuff Part III'," said silver. with logical punctuation, or "There is a thread about random stuff; it's called 'Random Stuff Part III,'" said silver. with typesetter's punctuation.

[sudgy]

In other news, I got a shin splint.  What should I do?

[Witherweaver]

In other news, I got a shin splint.  What should I do?

Amputate.

[Witherweaver]

Just stretch and massage.  Eat things that are good for you.

[LaLight]

Today is a celebration. 30 years ago this song was first heard by the world.

[Kuildeous]

Today is a celebration. 30 years ago this song was first heard by the world.

I suspected as much, but I knew I wanted to click that link anyway.

Man, that's a shit-ton of views.

[Drab Emordnilap]

Today is a celebration. 30 years ago this song was first heard by the world.

It would probably be more appropriate to post that in this forum section:

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?board=50.0

[LaLight]

Today is a celebration. 30 years ago this song was first heard by the world.

It would probably be more appropriate to post that in this forum section:

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?board=50.0

I think that right now this was the first time of my life I didn't click this.

[pingpongsam]

A friend of mine long ago taught me a euphemism for vomiting, "the big spit".

[Seprix]

Yesterday I approached a Starbucks employee who was sampling cold brew, and I noticed there was a coconut flavored one. I asked her if she was sampling that one, and she told me that it was such a popular flavor that Starbucks has decided to discontinue selling it entirely. This seems entirely counter-intuitive to me. Wouldn't Starbucks want to make more money? The only thing I can think of is that they might intend to do limited time releases for coconut.

[silverspawn]

 

[GendoIkari]

Yesterday I approached a Starbucks employee who was sampling cold brew, and I noticed there was a coconut flavored one. I asked her if she was sampling that one, and she told me that it was such a popular flavor that Starbucks has decided to discontinue selling it entirely. This seems entirely counter-intuitive to me. Wouldn't Starbucks want to make more money? The only thing I can think of is that they might intend to do limited time releases for coconut.

Noooo. Starbucks coconut cold brew was my favorite! Um yeah, I have no idea what they mean by that, unless like you suggested it's related to unavailability of ingredients.Or if they were only able to make so much per day, and they didn't want customers to be disappointed that it was already sold out for the day when they went there.

[Kuildeous]

My PIN is the last four digits of pi

#stolenfromshirt

[Tables]

My PIN appears somewhere in pi, right after my birthday in unix time.

[silverspawn]

The script I really don't like but currently have to read turns out to have interesting information about variables. It says Group Theory is the same as oeometry and Geometry is the same as Group Theory from which I conclude that Gemoetry equals eometry and therefore G = 1. Similarly, because Zunächts is used instead of Zunächst, s and t must commute. And all within one page.

[Kuildeous]

The script I really don't like but currently have to read turns out to have interesting information about variables. It says Group Theory is the same as oeometry and Geometry is the same as Group Theory from which I conclude that Gemoetry equals eometry and therefore G = 1. Similarly, because Zunächts is used instead of Zunächst, s and t must commute. And all within one page.

Man, that's going to be one boring movie.

[silverspawn]

Yeah ... but at least I'll learn valuable things about eometry and roup theory.

[Awaclus]

The script I really don't like but currently have to read turns out to have interesting information about variables. It says Group Theory is the same as oeometry and Geometry is the same as Group Theory from which I conclude that Gemoetry equals eometry and therefore G = 1. Similarly, because Zunächts is used instead of Zunächst, s and t must commute. And all within one page.

Man, that's going to be one boring movie.

Oh no. It's that bug again.

[Seprix]

#bringTheKuildeousRobotAvatarBack

[Kuildeous]

What bug? Is my gif causing issues?

[Awaclus]

What bug? Is my gif causing issues?

No, it's the good old bug we've had in every Random Stuff so far. All the references to posts link to one post later than they should, so when someone quotes the last post on a page, the link on that quote takes you to the wrong page, and the same is true for all the links to a particular post in this thread after the point at which we got the bug.

[sudgy]

What bug? Is my gif causing issues?

No, it's the good old bug we've had in every Random Stuff so far. All the references to posts link to one post later than they should, so when someone quotes the last post on a page, the link on that quote takes you to the wrong page, and the same is true for all the links to a particular post in this thread after the point at which we got the bug.

I've noticed it for a while now.

[Kuildeous]

Ah. And I've had the bug where jumping to the first unread post takes me to the second post so that I have to scroll up to see the first unread post.

I suppose it's time to start Random Stuff IV.

[Awaclus]

Ah. And I've had the bug where jumping to the first unread post takes me to the second post so that I have to scroll up to see the first unread post.

That's the same bug.

[2.71828.....]

Ah. And I've had the bug where jumping to the first unread post takes me to the second post so that I have to scroll up to see the first unread post.

I suppose it's time to start Random Stuff IV.

We (as in, a mod) should sticky all the random stuff threads. It's a part of f.ds that everyone needs to know about.

[pingpongsam]

Ah. And I've had the bug where jumping to the first unread post takes me to the second post so that I have to scroll up to see the first unread post.

I suppose it's time to start Random Stuff IV.

We (as in, a mod) should sticky all the random stuff threads. It's a part of f.ds that everyone needs to know about.

Yes, required reading before making your first post as a newcomer.

[GendoIkari]

My PIN appears somewhere in pi, right after my birthday in unix time.

I should probably be worried about identity theft, because my SSN, PIN, birthdate, and credit card number all appear in pi directly one after the other.

[schadd]

i just got a wider monitor and its resolution lets me fit like 10 more bookmarks hnnnnnn

[Kuildeous]

i just got a wider monitor and its resolution lets me fit like 10 more bookmarks hnnnnnn

MOAR TABS!

[silverspawn]

Grammar question. I read this sentence

"A thread within his web had been cut and, like a"

I never do this, but I'm also never sure if it's false or just not my style. Can you put this comma behind the 'and' there? I'd put it after the 'cut'.

[schadd]

i just got a wider monitor and its resolution lets me fit like 10 more bookmarks hnnnnnn

MOAR TABS!

i actually don't like having this capability because whenever i got to 6 tabs (i.e. where it needed to start squeezing them) i usually close a tab and that's a good point of homeostasis i think

[markusin]

Grammar question. I read this sentence

"A thread within his web had been cut and, like a"

I never do this, but I'm also never sure if it's false or just not my style. Can you put this comma behind the 'and' there? I'd put it after the 'cut'.

I can give my take on this and say both are valid, but have a slightly different nuance and perhaps intonation if spoken.

Take this silly sentence:

"A thread within his web had been cut and, like a terrified moviegoer, wrapped itself around the knife."

Here, there is more emphasis on the "wrapped itself around..." part. I imagine it almost like "his web had been cut AND, like a..." when spoken. The simile is almost a throwaway.

Now this sentence:

"A thread within his web had been cut, and like a terrified moviegoer it wrapped itself around the knife."

Here, the emphasis is on the simile. The simile is the part that is meant to engage the reader, while the "wrapped itself around" part has a primaily informative intention. At least, I'd expect one to intonate the sentence like that.

[pacovf]

I believe you would need a comma before "like" and after "moviegoer" in both of those examples if you want to be completely correct. But the comma before "and" is optional.

[scott_pilgrim]

My PIN appears somewhere in pi, right after my birthday in unix time.

I should probably be worried about identity theft, because my SSN, PIN, birthdate, and credit card number all appear in pi directly one after the other.

I noticed a few days ago that there is a 10-digit number of people in the world, SSN's (or other countries' equivalent) are usually 9 digits, and phone numbers are 10 digits, which means that there are probably a few people in the world* whose phone number is just their SSN with a digit appended to it. I would think it would feel really weird to be one of those people and give people your phone number. It would also be weird that that would be such a cool coincidence, but you would never want to tell anyone about it.


*(I don't actually really have any idea what percentage of the world's population has a 9-digit super-important number.)

[singletee]

I did find a discussion on ELU stack exchange about it. I agree with Rhyous that even in the case of a parenthetical element, a comma should not be placed after and. See this page citing Strunk's Elements of Style. But it seems I would be in the minority opinion in that thread.

[markusin]

I believe you would need a comma before "like" and after "moviegoer" in both of those examples if you want to be completely correct. But the comma before "and" is optional.

In any formal context I would agree with this actually. Omitting the comma after "moviegoer" felt weird, but only because I also omitted the comma after "and". Without the comma after "and", the "wrapped around" part doesn't connect with "cut" if the part in between the comma is removed to create "A thread within his web had been cut it wrapped itself around the knife."

It depends on whether the writing wants to adhere to a narrative style following strict grammar rules or if it wants to take liberties to sound closer to how people might talk in real life.

Edit:

I did find a discussion on ELU stack exchange about it. I agree with Rhyous that even in the case of a parenthetical element, a comma should not be placed after and. See this page citing Strunk's Elements of Style. But it seems I would be in the minority opinion in that thread.

Apparently the comma after "and" is unnecessary after all as "and" is not part of the parenthetical element even when inside the commas. Well, it's cool to learn something.

[schadd]

an unforeseen upside to singular they:


at the other forum i frequent there is an option to display your preferred pronoun by your posts and intuitively "they" is an option, but there is also a common phenomenon where two people share an account which is super convenient because "they" is already there

[Awaclus]

My PIN appears somewhere in pi, right after my birthday in unix time.

I should probably be worried about identity theft, because my SSN, PIN, birthdate, and credit card number all appear in pi directly one after the other.

I noticed a few days ago that there is a 10-digit number of people in the world, SSN's (or other countries' equivalent) are usually 9 digits, and phone numbers are 10 digits, which means that there are probably a few people in the world* whose phone number is just their SSN with a digit appended to it. I would think it would feel really weird to be one of those people and give people your phone number. It would also be weird that that would be such a cool coincidence, but you would never want to tell anyone about it.


*(I don't actually really have any idea what percentage of the world's population has a 9-digit super-important number.)

Finnish SSNs are 11 characters, two of which aren't digits.

[Drab Emordnilap]

Finnish SSNs are 11 characters, two of which aren't digits.

So in order to find your SSN in pi, you first have to convert pi to base 36?

Code: [Select]

3.53i5ab8p5fc5vayqter60f6r0
Did I find it yet?

[Awaclus]

Finnish SSNs are 11 characters, two of which aren't digits.

So in order to find your SSN in pi, you first have to convert pi to base 36?

Code: [Select]

3.53i5ab8p5fc5vayqter60f6r0
Did I find it yet?

No. It contains a minus sign (to signify that I was born in the 20th century).

[schadd]

awaclus = hacked

[schadd]

my mom just got an inflatable pool and showed it to me and i said "why do we have that" and my brother came up and saw it and asked "why do we have that"

[Kuildeous]

Man, I accidentally used a racial slur. It's not even one that was part of my normal vocabulary. But somehow it slipped out.

It was more egregious than using "gyp," but it's along those lines. I somehow blurted it out.

So weird that growing up with normalized racism could let me casually leak one out 30 years later.

[Seprix]

Couch surfing.

[Kirian]

Man, I accidentally used a racial slur. It's not even one that was part of my normal vocabulary. But somehow it slipped out.

It was more egregious than using "gyp," but it's along those lines. I somehow blurted it out.

So weird that growing up with normalized racism could let me casually leak one out 30 years later.

Yep.  My mother uses these tiny racial slurs all the time, and I'm sure eventually I'm going to accidentally use one.

[Kirian]

My PIN appears somewhere in pi, right after my birthday in unix time.

I should probably be worried about identity theft, because my SSN, PIN, birthdate, and credit card number all appear in pi directly one after the other.

Guys, I hate to break it to you, but while it's hypothesized (and probably likely) that pi is normal, it's not proven yet.

I checked the first 200M digits of pi and my SSN was not in them, but you'd expect to need a billion digits to find most SSNs (on average).

Also, oblig:

[liopoil]

Yeah, but like, how stupid would it be if pi weren't normal? Almost all real numbers are normal.

[silverspawn]

Not strictly speaking "almost all," though, because there are infinite real numbers which are not normal.

[Haddock]

Not strictly speaking "almost all," though, because there are infinite real numbers which are not normal.

I'm assuming that liopoil meant almost all with respect to Lebesgue measure. 

Which, I imagine that's true, though I don't know for sure.

[liopoil]

Not strictly speaking "almost all," though, because there are infinite real numbers which are not normal.

I'm assuming that liopoil meant almost all with respect to Lebesgue measure. 

Which, I imagine that's true, though I don't know for sure.

This is what I meant. I read somewhere that it'd been proven, though I have no idea how. Seems plausible though!

[Tables]

Okay, I suppose it's possible that it doesn't appear in Pi, but the chance is vanishingly small.

[Kirian]

Okay, I suppose it's possible that it doesn't appear in Pi, but the chance is vanishingly small.

[Cuzz]

Not strictly speaking "almost all," though, because there are infinite real numbers which are not normal.

There are no infinite real numbers

sorry

[Cuzz]

Seriously, though, "almost all" sounds vague and informal, but has the precise meaning of a set whose complement has measure zero, where the measure is typically Lebesgue or whatever is most natural in the given context. For Lebesgue, sets of measure zero can certainly be infinite, even uncountable.

[SpaceAnemone]

I have UR gkrieg!

Send a delegation to Berlin on Wednesday if you want to see him...

[silverspawn]

yeah, I got the gist of it unfortunately I've not yet had the lebesgue measure taught to me. The only time I heard "almost all" defined was by a prof who claimed that "almost all" = "all but a finite amount"

which is a bit of a funny definition when taken literally, because then you can say stuff like "almost all humans have horns" and it's true.

[Tables]

I'm about to start playing Chrono Trigger for the first time, something I probably should have done about 10 years ago if not more. I'm excited. I know small amounts about the game, like something tragic happens to someone called Frog - from the context it sounds like he gets killed and Lavos is the final boss and causing chaos throughout time but mostly, I know very little. I've also heard one or two of the music tracks before and enjoyed them.

[Titandrake]

I'm about to start playing Chrono Trigger for the first time, something I probably should have done about 10 years ago if not more. I'm excited. I know small amounts about the game, like something tragic happens to someone called Frog - from the context it sounds like he gets killed and Lavos is the final boss and causing chaos throughout time but mostly, I know very little. I've also heard one or two of the music tracks before and enjoyed them.

Chrono Trigger is a pretty great game - it's just a really solid JRPG that doesn't drag on for too long.

I liked that after a certain point, you got to pick when the game ended, and got different endings depending on when you did so.

[gkrieg13]

I have UR gkrieg!

Send a delegation to Berlin on Wednesday if you want to see him...

Plz save me. It is cold and rainy, and I'm developing a horrible accent!

[schadd]

dae

[Kirian]

I'm about to start playing Chrono Trigger for the first time, something I probably should have done about 10 years ago if not more. I'm excited. I know small amounts about the game, like something tragic happens to someone called Frog - from the context it sounds like he gets killed and Lavos is the final boss and causing chaos throughout time but mostly, I know very little. I've also heard one or two of the music tracks before and enjoyed them.

Chrono Trigger is a pretty great game - it's just a really solid JRPG that doesn't drag on for too long.

I liked that after a certain point, you got to pick when the game ended, and got different endings depending on when you did so.

Just be careful that you don't spend too long on                                 Moat                                   

Also, no, you're wrong, this joke never gets old.

[Tables]

I'm gonna have to come back and read these spoilers later, but I already have a suspicion Kiran's ones are Moat                     

[Awaclus]

I'm gonna have to come back and read these spoilers later, but I already have a suspicion Kiran's ones are Moat                     

Did you guess that from the upmoats?

[silverspawn]

Hmm, when you put it like that, it's less surprising that moat still gets upmoats

[Tables]

Is Titan's spoiler a legit Chrono Trigger related thing though? But to answer the questions, yes.

[LastFootnote]

Is Titan's spoiler a legit Chrono Trigger related thing though?

Yeah, it is. Although it's not a plot spoiler, and mostly applies to New Game +.

[markusin]

Chrono Trigger. I played this on the PlayStation One (bundled with Final Fantasy IV). You can call it blissful ignorance that I didn't know the SNES version of the game didn't have the atrocious load times before every fight. We're talking a wait of about 10 seconds of the characters acting frozen before every random encounter begins. The music plays during this load time though.

How did I put up with those load times? I don't know, the game was good enough for me to want to finish I guess.

[LastFootnote]

Chrono Trigger. I played this on the PlayStation One (bundled with Final Fantasy IV). You can call it blissful ignorance that I didn't know the SNES version of the game didn't have the atrocious load times before every fight. We're talking a wait of about 10 seconds of the characters acting frozen before every random encounter begins. The music plays during this load time though.

How did I put up with those load times? I don't know, the game was good enough for me to want to finish I guess.

Oh god, all those PS1 ports of SNES games were awful. Final Fantasy VI had a several-second wait every time you wanted to open the menu. Unplayable.

[markusin]

Chrono Trigger. I played this on the PlayStation One (bundled with Final Fantasy IV). You can call it blissful ignorance that I didn't know the SNES version of the game didn't have the atrocious load times before every fight. We're talking a wait of about 10 seconds of the characters acting frozen before every random encounter begins. The music plays during this load time though.

How did I put up with those load times? I don't know, the game was good enough for me to want to finish I guess.

Oh god, all those PS1 ports of SNES games were awful. Final Fantasy VI had a several-second wait every time you wanted to open the menu. Unplayable.

Well, not literally unplayable because I played it. One of my favourites in the series actually. Another example of me not realising how bad I have it with load times that aren't there on the SNES.

[Kuildeous]

How did I put up with those load times? I don't know, the game was good enough for me to want to finish I guess.

My Commodore 64 had a Western game where you were a sheriff standing in a street and various people showed up to talk to you. You answered by choosing a response with the joystick, and if you pushed the joystick all the way up, then you exited the speech options and immediately drew your gun and could aim it. It was an amusing little game.

But it was so graphic-heavy that it would take literal minutes for each scenario to load. It could take half an hour to play the game, and you may only see 10 scenarios.

In a sense, I suppose I can't say those days are fully gone. When I want to play a new game, I have to install it. If I buy it for the PS3, it seems normal nowadays to have to wait several minutes while it downloads updates.

[ashersky]

Does anyone remember Sunset Riders from the arcade?

[Kuildeous]

Does anyone remember Sunset Riders from the arcade?

Yes, our local barcade had it for a while. Very fun game. I don't know why it got replaced. I suppose it wasn't hugely popular back then either. But the gameplay was pretty solid. Like many games of its type, it can be frustrating to be fully powered up at the boss fight only to get killed and try to complete it with your starting gun. This is often a problem with those types of games.

[sitnaltax]

How did I put up with those load times? I don't know, the game was good enough for me to want to finish I guess.

My Commodore 64 had a Western game where you were a sheriff standing in a street and various people showed up to talk to you. You answered by choosing a response with the joystick, and if you pushed the joystick all the way up, then you exited the speech options and immediately drew your gun and could aim it. It was an amusing little game.

But it was so graphic-heavy that it would take literal minutes for each scenario to load. It could take half an hour to play the game, and you may only see 10 scenarios.

In a sense, I suppose I can't say those days are fully gone. When I want to play a new game, I have to install it. If I buy it for the PS3, it seems normal nowadays to have to wait several minutes while it downloads updates.

Law of the West, if you want to play it emulated for the nostalgia.

[Awaclus]

I deleted 180 gigs worth of stuff.

[pingpongsam]

I deleted 180 gigs worth of stuff.

I do that fairly routinely.

[Kirian]

I deleted 180 gigs worth of stuff.

I don't think I've ever had that much stuff, not counting various duplicates...

[sudgy]

Code: [Select]

$ du -sh /home/sudgy
51G /home/sudgy

[Kuildeous]

I had a dream last night that—sparing you the details—was the start of an erotic dream involving multiple attractive people. Before things got too heavy, I stepped away to wash up. When I returned, everyone was clothed, and there was a game of Monopoly set up in the middle of the room.

That dream was disappointing on so many levels.

[Swowl]

Apologies. Posting here in hopes it will remove the verification letters from my replies.

[Kuildeous]

Apologies. Posting here in hopes it will remove the verification letters from my replies.

Close enough to random.

[Tables]

Just finished Chrono Trigger!

So it turns out the tragic thing that happens to Frog is his past, rather than something in the story. And yet SOMEONE does actually "die". When Janus gave me that warning, I thought Frog's death was soon. So Crono dying instead came as a big surprise.

My final save time was just under 22 hours, so including the final boss and ending perhaps just under 23 hours total. Speaking of, damn that final boss was long and epic. Two long phases, with a 10-ish phase penultimate boss (most being very short mind) and 3 phase antepenultimate boss. My final team was Ayla, Frog, Crono, at levels 46-47 - Falcon Hit is pretty fantastic for enemies in a line, Confuse and Luminare are just generally good from Crono, and I had the Swallow so he was super fast and powerful. Frog mostly provided great Dual Techs with Drop Kick being my most used, but Spire and Slurp Kiss saw a decent amount of use. Their triple tech, 3D attack, was honestly not that useful as Confuse from Crono + Drop Kick from Frog/Ayla deals more damage, and doesn't slow Crono down in having to wait for their ATB to fill up. I did switch party members around a lot, I did manage to learn all the single techs on everyone (some inside the Black Omen, even right up to near the final bosses), but probably missed some dual techs and most triple techs from not using the right parties after all the single techs were learned... oh well.

Overall I really enjoyed the game. I can see why it's so beloved of SNES games. It has a solid plot, great gameplay, lots of customisation. I know there are many endings you can possibly get, and there were several sidequests I didn't do, but maybe another time.

[markusin]

Chrono trigger endgame spoiler:

It's been awhile since I played Chrono Trigger,
and I can't tell if you did the floating castle side quest dungeon based on your description, Tables. I remember that dungeon leading to a boss spam of epic proportions that really felt invigorating to overcome.

I think I remember having Marle on my final boss team. The magic defense boost spell felt essential against the final phase of the final boss.

[GendoIkari]

I deleted 180 gigs worth of stuff.

I do that fairly routinely.

Today at work I received over 10,000 emails within a half hour.

[schadd]

Today at work I received over 10,000 emails within a half hour.

[singletee]

I deleted 180 gigs worth of stuff.

I do that fairly routinely.

Today at work I received over 10,000 emails within a half hour.

(´･ω･`)

[schadd]

health people: is there any reason one shouldn't exercise primarily at 3am?

[ashersky]

health people: is there any reason one shouldn't exercise primarily at 3am?

I think it would depend on when you wake/sleep.

If you sleep from 6 p.m. to 2 a.m. every day, then 3 a.m. seems like a fine time to work out.

[Awaclus]

health people: is there any reason one shouldn't exercise primarily at 3am?

I think it would depend on when you wake/sleep.

If you sleep from 6 p.m. to 2 a.m. every day, then 3 a.m. seems like a fine time to work out.

What if I sleep from 4 am to 2 pm?

[schadd]

health people: is there any reason one shouldn't exercise primarily at 3am?

I think it would depend on when you wake/sleep.

If you sleep from 6 p.m. to 2 a.m. every day, then 3 a.m. seems like a fine time to work out.

What if I sleep from 4 am to 2 pm?

this just about describes me as well yes

[2.71828.....]

I deleted 180 gigs worth of stuff.

I do that fairly routinely.

Today at work I received over 10,000 emails within a half hour.

that seems excessive

[ashersky]

health people: is there any reason one shouldn't exercise primarily at 3am?

I think it would depend on when you wake/sleep.

If you sleep from 6 p.m. to 2 a.m. every day, then 3 a.m. seems like a fine time to work out.

What if I sleep from 4 am to 2 pm?

this just about describes me as well yes

Should be fine then.

[Witherweaver]

health people: is there any reason one shouldn't exercise primarily at 3am?

If you are sleeping then but up and moving because of, say, Ambien, then it could be risky.

[schadd]

ambien is not a boy i've canoodled with

[schadd]

does anyone here do snapchat? i'm schad1

[gkrieg13]

does anyone here do snapchat? i'm schad1

I imagine snapping with you would be both very entertaining and confusing.

[SpaceAnemone]

does anyone here do snapchat? i'm schad1

Aw, if you'd posted that about 24 hours earlier, we could have snapchatted you from the Berlin meet :-P

[schadd]

does anyone here do snapchat? i'm schad1

I imagine snapping with you would be both very entertaining and confusing.

i'm just a dude. right now my story has me cartwheeling and my cat

[Mic Qsenoch]

does anyone here do snapchat? i'm schad1

I imagine snapping with you would be both very entertaining and confusing.

i'm just a dude. right now my story has me cartwheeling and my cat

But I bet your cartwheels are all lowercase.

[schadd]

dave grohl excuses himself, saying "i need to go to the bath. the bath. the bath. the bath of room"

[Drab Emordnilap]

Does anyone remember Sunset Riders from the arcade?

"Bury me with my money!"

"Draw, pilgrim!"

YEEHEEEE

[schadd]

new sbemail


the only easter egg is in the youtube video

[heron]

I wanted to change my avatar to mountain pass but I'm not sure if it worked right so uh yea

Edit: it did not work right
Edit2: well small is better than smashed into a square but I can see MicQ succeeded in something a little larger

[Mic Qsenoch]

I wanted to change my avatar to mountain pass but I'm not sure if it worked right so uh yea

Edit: it did not work right
Edit2: well small is better than smashed into a square but I can see MicQ succeeded in something a little larger

I just chose mine from the gallery available on the forums  (iso Silver), so I'm afraid I don't know any way to help.

[Awaclus]

The Iso art from the forum gallery is the only way to get a bigger avatar than what e.g. I have.

[heron]

The Iso art from the forum gallery is the only way to get a bigger avatar than what e.g. I have.

Darn, thanks for the info.

[sudgy]

I deleted 180 gigs worth of stuff.

I do that fairly routinely.

Today at work I received over 10,000 emails within a half hour.

(´･ω･`)

...why did I read all of this?

[faust]

Donald X. saw it coming...

[Kuildeous]

I may be using Uber for the first time in the next couple of weeks. I need to find some time to look up how to do things.

It seems that I can hail an Uber using my phone's location. If I have a lot of luggage, is that something I can indicate?

[LastFootnote]

I may be using Uber for the first time in the next couple of weeks. I need to find some time to look up how to do things.

It seems that I can hail an Uber using my phone's location. If I have a lot of luggage, is that something I can indicate?

Do they not have taxis where you're going?

[Polk5440]

If I have a lot of luggage, is that something I can indicate?

Not directly, but you can call the driver after one is matched with you to see if he will have room. Alternatively, you can use one of the higher tier levels of service (if available in your area) which usually means an SUV or some equivalent.

[Witherweaver]

Cute webcomic based on FFI.  Some of you probably have seen it before, but I hadn't:

http://www.nuklearpower.com/2001/03/02/episode-001-were-going-where/

[GendoIkari]

Cute webcomic based on FFI.  Some of you probably have seen it before, but I hadn't:

http://www.nuklearpower.com/2001/03/02/episode-001-were-going-where/

I saw it in 2001. 

[Awaclus]

Cute webcomic based on FFI.  Some of you probably have seen it before, but I hadn't:

http://www.nuklearpower.com/2001/03/02/episode-001-were-going-where/

I saw it in 2001. 

How do you remember what year it was?

[Kirian]

Cute webcomic based on FFI.  Some of you probably have seen it before, but I hadn't:

http://www.nuklearpower.com/2001/03/02/episode-001-were-going-where/

I saw it in 2001. 

How do you remember what year it was?

It's in the URL

[pacovf]

Cute webcomic based on FFI.  Some of you probably have seen it before, but I hadn't:

http://www.nuklearpower.com/2001/03/02/episode-001-were-going-where/

I saw it a few years ago (not as many as Gendo though :p). It's funny, but weird/absurd at times. Also, long.

For some reason, I thought the way they used punctuation and capitalization to strengthen the incredulity of (mostly) Black Mage was hilarious.

[Witherweaver]

Cute webcomic based on FFI.  Some of you probably have seen it before, but I hadn't:

http://www.nuklearpower.com/2001/03/02/episode-001-were-going-where/

I saw it a few years ago (not as many as Gendo though :p). It's funny, but weird/absurd at times. Also, long.

For some reason, I thought the way they used punctuation and capitalization to strengthen the incredulity of (mostly) Black Mage was hilarious.

I like how they're able to convey a lot of emotion in Black Mage with just the position of his head and hands.

[jsh357]

Man, it feels odd seeing people just discover 8 Bit Theater. I was reading it back when it started, which felt like ages ago. It really fell off the rails once they left Cornelia.

[Witherweaver]

This is pretty awesome:



From DeMorge Brown, regular on Harmontown.

[GendoIkari]

Cute webcomic based on FFI.  Some of you probably have seen it before, but I hadn't:

http://www.nuklearpower.com/2001/03/02/episode-001-were-going-where/

I saw it in 2001. 

How do you remember what year it was?

Because I started college in 2001, and I remember it being a popular thing among my friends during my first year of college.

[silverspawn]

Does anyone by chance know a way to add... stains to an image? As in dirt, blurry black lines, that kind of thing. The program I use and the tools I found online can add noise, but that's not really the same. I want something that will also stain white background.

I hope the answer is not "install gimp" 

[sudgy]

Does anyone by chance know a way to add... stains to an image? As in dirt, blurry black lines, that kind of thing. The program I use and the tools I found online can add noise, but that's not really the same. I want something that will also stain white background.

I hope the answer is not "install gimp" 

Install gimp

Seriously, though, it started out as a painful process, but I'm glad I got through it.  Image editing is already so much easier now.

[ThetaSigma12]

Does anyone by chance know a way to add... stains to an image? As in dirt, blurry black lines, that kind of thing. The program I use and the tools I found online can add noise, but that's not really the same. I want something that will also stain white background.

I hope the answer is not "install gimp" 

Install gimp!

FTFY

[markusin]

What's wrong with GIMP exactly? I mainly use it because I don't have a tablet and never bothered to find an artsy image creation/editing app.

[Kirian]

Does anyone by chance know a way to add... stains to an image? As in dirt, blurry black lines, that kind of thing. The program I use and the tools I found online can add noise, but that's not really the same. I want something that will also stain white background.

I hope the answer is not "install gimp" 

Print image
Go outside
Set image in dirt
Step on image a few times
Go inside
Scan image

[silverspawn]

What's wrong with GIMP exactly? I mainly use it because I don't have a tablet and never bothered to find an artsy image creation/editing app.

Nothing is wrong with gimp at all (that I know of). I just really don't like having to adapt to new software...

[silverspawn]

Other question: I got asked this

- What waifufaggotry is;
- What its effects are;
- What its causes are;
- What its relationship to reality is;
- What its moral status is?

Does anyone who knows anime want to answer those?

[Awaclus]

Other question: I got asked this

- What waifufaggotry is;
- What its effects are;
- What its causes are;
- What its relationship to reality is;
- What its moral status is?

Does anyone who knows anime want to answer those?

Do you want short or long answers? The short answers are:

- It's a bunch of people joking around
- Its effect is lulz
- Its cause is the famous "mai waifu" line from Azumanga Daioh
- Its relationship to reality is that it's a meme
- Its moral status is that it's a meme

The big picture is a lot more nuanced but that's basically what you have to know in order to not look completely silly.

[silverspawn]

that should be enough

[crax]

I think that it has very low moral status because it has f*gg*t in it

[Awaclus]

I think that it has very low moral status because it has f*gg*t in it

The term has its origins in image board culture.

[pingpongsam]

I think that it has very low moral status because it has f*gg*t in it

I'm always confused when people use censor characters in a completely legible word online.

[2.71828.....]

I think that it has very low moral status because it has f*gg*t in it

I'm always confused when people use censor characters in a completely legible word online.

Yeah, if you are concerned about language you should just use moat      . spoilers

[Witherweaver]

I picked up Nier: Automata and have started playing.  I'm still pretty early in, but it's pretty awesome.  The opening is a bit iffy on anything other than easy difficulty, but so far the immersion, story, music, etc. is quite good.

[Kuildeous]

Yeah, if you are concerned about language you should just use moat      . spoilers

My delicate ears!

[silverspawn]

you can't transfer the old expansions to new dominion accounts, can you?

[pingpongsam]

you can't transfer the old expansions to new dominion accounts, can you?

i could be wrong but i thought you could but it involved contacting the proper authorities with your specifics. obviously the clock is ticking on how long that remains possible.

[silverspawn]

Oh, I see. Cool.

... wait, why did thief get removed? have any other cards been removed?

[LaLight]

Oh, I see. Cool.

... wait, why did thief get removed? have any other cards been removed?

Well, 1ed cards were removed from physical Dominion and they never were accessible in client. Out of my memory: thief, spy, feast, chancellor, woodcutter, tribute, saboteur, secret chamber, scout, coppersmith... something else i think

Edit: Great Hall, Adventurer. I think that's all

[Awaclus]

Oh, I see. Cool.

... wait, why did thief get removed? have any other cards been removed?

Thief got removed because the 2nd editions of Base and Intrigue replaced some of the almost completely useless cards with a bunch of cards that are actually useful plus Vassal.

Here are the removed cards: http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Removed_cards
And here are the new ones: http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Second_Edition#Added_cards

[Awaclus]

I swear I have already complained about having this exact deja vu before.

[silverspawn]

I already played a bunch and didn't even realize there were cards missing.

I approve... except that cards got removed and possession is still in the game :X I guess it's not in a base set.

so far I've asked "can we agree not to buy possession?" every time it came up and every time my opponent has agreed.

[schadd]

does anyone else super enjoy wide pencil lead? like .9mm+

it feels like digging an informative canal

[Kirian]

does anyone else super enjoy wide pencil lead? like .9mm+

it feels like digging an informative canal

No, that shit is the worst, go get artists' pencils if you need lines that thick.  0.5mm or go home.

[SpaceAnemone]

does anyone else super enjoy wide pencil lead? like .9mm+

it feels like digging an informative canal

Huh. It's 0.5mm 2H for me by preference! It's not like I can read my own writing very well anyway...

[Lekkit]

does anyone else super enjoy wide pencil lead? like .9mm+

it feels like digging an informative canal

No, that shit is the worst, go get artists' pencils if you need lines that thick.  0.5mm or go home.

I had a classmate who used 0,3mm. Nobody could borrow his pencil without breaking the lead. I prefer 0,5 but can still manage with 0,7.

[Awaclus]

I don't care what lead I use. I almost never use a pencil anyway, ballpoint pens are generally much better if I have to write something down on a piece of paper, but I rarely do because computers are a thing.

[Lekkit]

I actually prefer pencils when playing RPGs and you have stats and stuff on sheets of paper. Other than that, I kind of only use pencils at work when I can't find any ballpoint pens.

[Kuildeous]

... wait, why did thief get removed? have any other cards been removed?

Thief seemed like a good idea back in the early days. It sounds so threatening: I'm a gonna take a treasure from you! Deck trimming was rarely understood back then (I still remember our early games of using +Buy to buy one, sometimes two, Copper). Unless you had a wild engine that could mill their decks and strip out all their treasure, you usually helped your opponent by stealing their Coppers.

With the addition of many other treasures, Thief had potential of being pretty powerful later on in the game. But later on the game is usually when the opponents would load up on action cards, so its usefulness was still blunted.

This feels funny to me because I remember having this conversation years ago, but I have to remember that Dominion is a game of hundreds of kingdom cards. It's easy to forget about one kingdom card from the base set.

[crax]

does anyone else super enjoy wide pencil lead? like .9mm+

it feels like digging an informative canal

Huh. It's 0.5mm 2H for me by preference! It's not like I can read my own writing very well anyway...

same here, .9 just gets too messy

[Darth Vader]

does anyone else super enjoy wide pencil lead? like .9mm+

it feels like digging an informative canal

Huh. It's 0.5mm 2H for me by preference! It's not like I can read my own writing very well anyway...

same here, .9 just gets too messy

9 is a perfectly fine amount, thank you very much.

[schadd]

[schadd]

like .5 is what i would use if i were taking a test and i wanted the grader to know i was angry the whole time

[silverspawn]

Is there a way to show your match history for dominion games?

[Awaclus]

Is there a way to show your match history for dominion games?

http://dominion.lauxnet.com/scavenger/?user=Awaclus

[drsteelhammer]

Awaclus are you drunk or something? I would've bet like $7 that your answer was gonna be "yes."

[Awaclus]

Awaclus are you drunk or something?

I'm something.

Also the joke is that I posted a way to show my match history for dominion games, as was requested.

[silverspawn]

Awaclus are you drunk or something?

I'm something.

Also the joke is that I posted a way to show my match history for dominion games, as was requested.

And now it's properly explained.

[Kuildeous]

Manager had to send out a batch e-mail explaining that meetings with management are important and should take priority over other work. I wouldn't have thought that was necessary to say.

Granted, I'm sure there's doubt that these meetings will be that useful, but seriously, if management sets up the meeting, it's pretty obvious that you're expected to be there.

[Witherweaver]

Anyone ever run into lyrics sheets on album inserts clearly disagreeing with what is sung on the album, but both versions work equally well and have very similar meanings?

I just noticed that in the Queen song '39 (A Night at the Opera), the second part of the second verse is in the sheet as:

For the earth is old and grey, to a new home we'll away
But my love this cannot be
For so many years have gone though I'm older but a year
Your mother's eyes in your eyes cry to me

However, on the album (at least, the CD I have, which was rereleased in 1991) May seems to sing:

For the earth is old and grey, little darling we'll away
And my love this cannot be
For so many years are gone though I'm older but a year
Your mother's eyes, from your eyes, cry to me

Some of those could be artifacts of hearing what I expect to, but I really cannot hear anything other than "little darling".

I wonder if they are transposed for the lyrics sheet from the original song writings, though during recording they take different takes and mix the ones they like the most.  I know some bands (e.g., Belle and Sebastian, I think The Shins as well) sometimes change songs a bit when they perform live, maybe letting the song evolve as it grows older, or something.  I suppose if you write a song you might have a number of different versions with slight modifications, and different ones could end up in different places?

Also possible they took a different mix on the remasterings from the original record, but the insert was the same as the record.

[Kuildeous]

Well, Queen also sings "Fried Chicken."

I do like '39. So folksy but so sci-fi.

[Witherweaver]

Well, Queen also sings "Fried Chicken."

I do like '39. So folksy but so sci-fi.

I never actually checked the lyrics for One Vision.  I wonder if it's just something they do.  Well, did.

[Kuildeous]

Well, Queen also sings "Fried Chicken."

I do like '39. So folksy but so sci-fi.

I never actually checked the lyrics for One Vision.  I wonder if it's just something they do.  Well, did.

I was starting to question my memory, so I pulled out my 20th anniversary CD of A Kind of Magic. My memory wins this round. The lyrics sheet does claim "one vision," but nobody I know believes that was what was sung at the end.

[Witherweaver]

Well, Queen also sings "Fried Chicken."

I do like '39. So folksy but so sci-fi.

I never actually checked the lyrics for One Vision.  I wonder if it's just something they do.  Well, did.

I was starting to question my memory, so I pulled out my 20th anniversary CD of A Kind of Magic. My memory wins this round. The lyrics sheet does claim "one vision," but nobody I know believes that was what was sung at the end.

Yeah I got it out and checked too, and I definitely agree he says, 'fried chicken'.

[Awaclus]

My experience with lyrics is that a lot of the time, you write something that sounds cool on paper, but when you actually get to the studio to record the vocals, it just doesn't work so you have to change it. We (my band) have always matched the lyrics with what we actually recorded afterwards, but a couple of times I have almost used the old lyrics by accident so it's quite easy to imagine that a mistake like that could totally happen. Especially since the person who's responsible for Queen's booklet was, unlike me, probably not present for the recording sessions and they didn't have the Internet back when that album was made. Or it could be that they just don't care.

[schadd]

>"Here's a rather different sort of answer, equivalent to the above. It's a more hard-core mathematician style of answer: concise but harder to understand."
>mrw that was the one that i came up with

[jsh357]

Anyone ever run into lyrics sheets on album inserts clearly disagreeing with what is sung on the album, but both versions work equally well and have very similar meanings?

I just noticed that in the Queen song '39 (A Night at the Opera), the second part of the second verse is in the sheet as:

For the earth is old and grey, to a new home we'll away
But my love this cannot be
For so many years have gone though I'm older but a year
Your mother's eyes in your eyes cry to me

However, on the album (at least, the CD I have, which was rereleased in 1991) May seems to sing:

For the earth is old and grey, little darling we'll away
And my love this cannot be
For so many years are gone though I'm older but a year
Your mother's eyes, from your eyes, cry to me

Some of those could be artifacts of hearing what I expect to, but I really cannot hear anything other than "little darling".

I wonder if they are transposed for the lyrics sheet from the original song writings, though during recording they take different takes and mix the ones they like the most.  I know some bands (e.g., Belle and Sebastian, I think The Shins as well) sometimes change songs a bit when they perform live, maybe letting the song evolve as it grows older, or something.  I suppose if you write a song you might have a number of different versions with slight modifications, and different ones could end up in different places?

Also possible they took a different mix on the remasterings from the original record, but the insert was the same as the record.

Apparently Bob Dylan is notorious for this. He will add entire new verses to classic songs when he plays them live.

[Kirian]

Opponent has ~25 points, I have ~10 points, there are ~25 points left on the board.  Opponent went basically Death Cart-Big Money with Forager support and has slowed down, I've just gotten Followers and Princess from the Tournament pile and hit him with Followers, having taken all the Saunas and four of the Avantos.

Opponent: "Please just resign"
Me: "Unless you have a definite Province on the next two turns, I have plenty of room to win."

Two minutes later, with Duchies and Estates gone, opponent has the opportunity to win by buying the last Avanto, but doesn't notice it at first, and asks for the undo after buying something else.

Because of the "just resign" comment, I denied it.  What would you have done?

[Lekkit]

I PROBABLY would've granted the undo. I guess it kind of depends on if I had a bad day. People who are like that won't really change because you deny them an undo request. If anything it will probably only get worse.

But getting back at someone can feel good too, so I get that.

[Awaclus]

If it was still their turn, I would have granted it for sure. If it was my turn and I was already playing it, no.

[silverspawn]

I think don't grant either way because of his comment. Otherwise I'd agree with Awaclus.

[silverspawn]

So what happens if you tie a game? Does the higher rater player lose rating?

[Awaclus]

So what happens if you tie a game? Does the higher rater player lose rating?

Yeah.

[Tables]

Earlier today I had a song stuck in my head that I heard a few months ago, so I looked it up on Youtube. It started up, name of song and authors. I recognised one of the names as one of my friends. So of course I quickly messaged her on Facebook. Turns out I'd had a song stuck in my head that was written by one of my (and Joseph2302's) friends, and I had no idea she'd even written a song. (For privacy reasons I won't share the song name/friend name, sorry).

[gkrieg13]

Wait, but I know Joseph2302, so she is my friend of a friend!

[Joseph2302]

Earlier today I had a song stuck in my head that I heard a few months ago, so I looked it up on Youtube. It started up, name of song and authors. I recognised one of the names as one of my friends. So of course I quickly messaged her on Facebook. Turns out I'd had a song stuck in my head that was written by one of my (and Joseph2302's) friends, and I had no idea she'd even written a song. (For privacy reasons I won't share the song name/friend name, sorry).

I demand to be PMed the details!

[ThetaSigma12]

So, I ran across Asper's cards on BGG, and I recognized his username there. Turns out he had been in the discussion for Smash Up: Oops You Did It Again with me. It's weird I didn't notice that before.

[schadd]

wpm?

i'm at 80ish

[pingpongsam]

60ish last I checked which is incredible considering I look at the keyboard and only use a total of 6 fingers. I never took any classes but I was using computers before most people in general.

[pacovf]

I think I used to be in the mid 300s *taps* per minute back when I practiced. Much slower now though, and the onset of autocorrect means that I don't type as precisely as I used to any more.

I was never able to type numbers without looking at the keyboard though.

[Awaclus]

I just took a test and got this result:




I'm using my laptop's shitty keyboard though, which doesn't register double taps properly, requires more strength and doesn't feel as good as a basic office keyboard. IIRC I got something like 115 or 120 when I tested with one of those a few years ago EDIT: but that was also a different test, that probably makes some difference too.

[theory]

I average around 130.  My best TypeRacer score ever was 157wpm.

[silverspawn]

uh is there a way to play a dominion board for both sides? If I want to test out strategy X vs Y?

[Watno]

Play with two accounts (using a private/incognito browser window foor one to get around your session being cookied)

[gkrieg13]

uh is there a way to play a dominion board for both sides? If I want to test out strategy X vs Y?

I mean if you are having trouble keeping the decks separate, I guess you could put them on opposite sides of the table and move yourself, but I usually just have one deck to the right and one to the left.

[pingpongsam]

took the Awaclus posted test and scored 60 WPM. Clearly haven't improved in several years but haven't gotten any worse either. Zero errors...

[scott_pilgrim]

60ish last I checked which is incredible considering I look at the keyboard and only use a total of 6 fingers. I never took any classes but I was using computers before most people in general.

I just took Awaclus's test and got 75 WPM (377 CPM, no mistakes), and I type with 3 fingers (both index fingers and my right middle finger). I don't look at the keyboard, though. It's weird what kinds of habits people develop with no formal typing training.

[pacovf]

That's more than two keys per finger per second. That's impressive.

[Awaclus]

60ish last I checked which is incredible considering I look at the keyboard and only use a total of 6 fingers. I never took any classes but I was using computers before most people in general.

I just took Awaclus's test and got 75 WPM (377 CPM, no mistakes), and I type with 3 fingers (both index fingers and my right middle finger). I don't look at the keyboard, though. It's weird what kinds of habits people develop with no formal typing training.

I'm actually surprised you can get that high with just three fingers. I thought I'm pretty good at one-handed writing since that's how I do it on a mobile phone, but I can still only get 47 WPM using the five fingers of my right hand.

I use eight fingers plus the right thumb, I never had any training either.

[silverspawn]

uh is there a way to play a dominion board for both sides? If I want to test out strategy X vs Y?

I mean if you are having trouble keeping the decks separate, I guess you could put them on opposite sides of the table and move yourself, but I usually just have one deck to the right and one to the left.

I assume you know that but I was talking about online dominion

[Seprix]

uh is there a way to play a dominion board for both sides? If I want to test out strategy X vs Y?

I mean if you are having trouble keeping the decks separate, I guess you could put them on opposite sides of the table and move yourself, but I usually just have one deck to the right and one to the left.

I assume you know that but I was talking about online dominion

Oh you're back? I'd better add you as a friend.

[Kirian]

Man, 62 wpm, I apparently ma not nearly as good as I thought I was.  Then again, I don't touch type, well, sort of, I can touch type somewhat but it increases my mistakes a ton.  So my wpm is much higher working from my brain or from speech rather than from words presented on the screen.

[gkrieg13]

Man, 62 wpm, I apparently ma not nearly as good as I thought I was.  Then again, I don't touch type, well, sort of, I can touch type somewhat but it increases my mistakes a ton.  So my wpm is much higher working from my brain or from speech rather than from words presented on the screen.

I'm the same way.  I am much better when I'm able to know a little bit ahead of time what I'm going to type so it comes from my brain.  I don't read very quickly, so it is hard for me to get ahead when I'm typing something that is from the screen in front of me.

[ThetaSigma12]

I apparently ma not nearly as good as I thought I was.\

Apparently!

[Lekkit]

Passed 100 days without noticing.

[Kirian]

I apparently ma not nearly as good as I thought I was.\

Apparently!

Right, what the hell was that even?

[Kuildeous]

I apparently ma not nearly as good as I thought I was.\

Apparently!

Right, what the hell was that even?

It's a classic Freudian slip. It's when you say one thing but mean a mother.

[Awaclus]

I had a pretty interesting dream just now. I wrote it down in a hurry as soon as I woke up so the writing isn't very polished. All of the characters in the dream except for myself were people that I came up with on the spot — as far as I can tell, I don't know any of them IRL, online, or from any fictional franchise. I feel like the dream had a lot of details that I already forgot.

I was at a boarding school of some kind, and there was this door that was normally closed and there was an electronic system that basically prevented people from ever opening that door. Then there was a student who was apparently been there, and he was completely freaked out by what he had seen there (but he wouldn't tell us what it was or anything else about the place) and he also said that he forgot something of his in there that he had to retrieve.

For a pretty long time, he tried to get the door open, but it didn't work out. Then one day, there was someone who apparently had access to the other side of the door who went in, and we (the student who had forgotten something, and me and my friend because we were just curious) just sneaked in while the door was open. There was this very strange security cam on the corridor on the other side of the door that basically looked like an eye attached to a very long mechanical arm, and the arm was moving and turning around and it was super intimidating. Also I really just wanted to see what was the big deal about that place so I just randomly peeked at a random room, and it was basically a normal classroom and there were students in there who were total strangers to us and not at all happy to see the student who had already been there and they started to get extremely hostile towards him, and they also made it pretty clear to us that we weren't supposed to be there either but they weren't particularly hostile towards us.

But obviously taking a look at the classroom didn't suddenly make the student find the thing that he had lost, so we got out of the classroom after he had basically begged for the students who were there to not hurt him and just let us leave, and kept searching for the lost item. As the search progressed, the student's behavior just kept getting fishier and fishier, and there was a point at which it started to look more like there was some evidence there that he wanted to destroy rather than an item that he wanted to retrieve. Then he found some photos from a drawer that was inside an empty classroom (I don't know what was in those photos), and then he just ran away and me and my friend left as well. It was pretty trivial to open the door from that side so we could get back to the normal parts of the school.

Then we started to see some of the students that we met on the other side of the door come to the regular parts of the school (even though we had never seen them there before) and confront the student that ran away with the photos. One of those students told me that Harvest is strictly better than Gold, but Gold is still better than Mountebank during that time. The student with the photos really just wanted them to stop and he tried all sorts of things to make it stop. In the meantime, me and my friend were puzzled by the other side of the door, because it was so strange that there could be a door that almost nobody could open, but that there were still students and classrooms on the other side. My friend also thought that the security cam was probably designed to be so intimidating that if someone accidentally got there, they would want to leave immediately.

Then the student with the photos suggested to us that we could switch rooms (as in the rooms that we slept in) because his room was almost right next to that door for some reason and he thought that if he was no longer in that room, that could help him with his issue with the students and stuff. So we agreed because we thought it could give us more information about the other side of the door. As it turned out, there were a lot of people who tried to get on the other side but they were all denied access — we saw and heard them constantly when we were in that room.

Then immediately the following night, I just randomly woke up in the middle of the night and the door was just blatantly open and the security cam wasn't being intimidating, so I thought I was probably welcome to go there and investigate. I went to the same classroom that I had previously peeked at, and there was a lecture going on and the room was full of students (some of which I recognized from the previous time I had been there) and there was a PowerPoint presentation about some super weird stuff. Nobody really paid any attention to me as I stuck around. Basically, at first, the lecture was about some unexplained serial killings that had occurred in the area, and then there was a wax animation about some super bizarre looking monsters and I think the implication was that those monsters were really behind the serial killings. One of the monsters had beige skin and it was living in a well and it had a jelly-like body. At first, I was startled by the monsters in the wax animation, but then I realized that it's probably a wax animation because there is no real footage of those monsters because they don't really exist, and then I was fine with it.

But the part about the monsters started to take really long, and it was being taught to us as though it was completely real, so I started to feel kind of uncomfortable again, so my attention was caught by a bucket of water with a string coming out of it. I couldn't see what was in the bucket, but I just pulled the string, and the string was pretty long and I kept pulling it until I saw something attached to it that basically looked like the arm of the monster that I described before (and I assume the rest of the creature was also in the bucket but I stopped pulling as soon as I saw that so I don't know whether or not that's the case) and then I just nope'd the fuck out of there. As I was leaving, the other students started to get angry at me because apparently I wasn't supposed to leave, and they were getting worried that I would tell other people about what I saw there (nobody ever told me that I wasn't supposed to do that in the first place) because I guess I wasn't considered to be reliable after I had gotten scared by the monster. Then the electronic system keeping the door closed made me swear that I wouldn't ever tell anyone, otherwise it wouldn't let me out. And that's when the dream ended and I woke up.

[silverspawn]

Great dream. Could have almost been from me.

[sudgy]

90 WPM last I checked.

[Seprix]

Man I don't get people. I ask awesome questions on Tinder like "would you sacrifice me to the volcano gods in order to have your favorite food in infinite supply" and I don't even get a response. 

[silverspawn]

I would. If I had my favorite food in infinite supply, I could gain arbitrary amounts of money by selling it and do cool stuff with them.

[Awaclus]

I would. If I had my favorite food in infinite supply, I could gain arbitrary amounts of money by selling it and do cool stuff with them.

So gaining lots of money is more important to you than ending world hunger?

[markusin]

I would. If I had my favorite food in infinite supply, I could gain arbitrary amounts of money by selling it and do cool stuff with them.

So gaining lots of money is more important to you than ending world hunger?

I'm wondering what ramifications solving world hunger with an infinite supply of food would have on the world economy. If oranges are in infinite supply, how much would apples cost?

[Kuildeous]

My company's deciding to allow us to carry over only 40 hours of personal time at the end of the year instead of 80. I'm not fond of this. I like having a strong buffer. It really helped me out one year when I was laid up for 2 weeks due to surgery. I got to use personal days instead of disability pay.

The rationale is that there is a perception that people aren't using their personal time enough. But if we have a hard cap of 80 hours anyway, then that argument doesn't hold since that only really applies the first year you start saving. If you start off with 80 extra hours and then carry over 80 hours at the end, then you're using just as much personal time.

I just like having a choice.

[pacovf]

I believe the only way to solve the economic problems in a post scarcity society is with a universal income.

In completely unrelated news and with many years of delay, #*%@& the bed of chaos.

[2.71828.....]

Man I don't get people. I ask awesome questions on Tinder like "would you sacrifice me to the volcano gods in order to have your favorite food in infinite supply" and I don't even get a response. 

Way too in depth for tinder. Well, from what I hear, not from experience

[Kuildeous]

Man I don't get people. I ask awesome questions on Tinder like "would you sacrifice me to the volcano gods in order to have your favorite food in infinite supply" and I don't even get a response. 

If it makes you feel better, I do not wish to murder you. I'm pretty okay with you being nonmurdered.

[Awaclus]

I got to shoot a WWII era Finnish Mosin-Nagant variant rifle today. It was a super interesting experience, but it was nowhere near as pleasant to shoot as the RK 62 tbh, for a multitude of reasons.

[sitnaltax]

My company's deciding to allow us to carry over only 40 hours of personal time at the end of the year instead of 80. I'm not fond of this. I like having a strong buffer. It really helped me out one year when I was laid up for 2 weeks due to surgery. I got to use personal days instead of disability pay.

The rationale is that there is a perception that people aren't using their personal time enough. But if we have a hard cap of 80 hours anyway, then that argument doesn't hold since that only really applies the first year you start saving. If you start off with 80 extra hours and then carry over 80 hours at the end, then you're using just as much personal time.

I just like having a choice.

It's not that the company wants you to take personal time. It's that employees having the hours banked is a liability, and the CFO would be happier if that liability were smaller.

[Kuildeous]

It's not that the company wants you to take personal time. It's that employees having the hours banked is a liability, and the CFO would be happier if that liability were smaller.

I believe you, but I don't know why this would be. Could you explain?

[Kuildeous]

One person came in at 6:58. Another person came in at 7:04. First person asked the second if it is still raining--as if she didn't just come in from outside 6 minutes ago. That's so cute.

Makes me wonder if it's just small talk or an attempt to sound like she's been here longer than she has been.

[Kirian]

I would. If I had my favorite food in infinite supply, I could gain arbitrary amounts of money by selling it and do cool stuff with them.

So gaining lots of money is more important to you than ending world hunger?

With a literally infinite supply, why not both?  I mean, besides the fact that the infinite availability of that food would drive its price down.

I would. If I had my favorite food in infinite supply, I could gain arbitrary amounts of money by selling it and do cool stuff with them.

So gaining lots of money is more important to you than ending world hunger?

I'm wondering what ramifications solving world hunger with an infinite supply of food would have on the world economy. If oranges are in infinite supply, how much would apples cost?

So you're literally comparing apples and oranges?

[Kirian]

It's not that the company wants you to take personal time. It's that employees having the hours banked is a liability, and the CFO would be happier if that liability were smaller.

I believe you, but I don't know why this would be. Could you explain?

It would be much worse for the company if everyone suddenly took two weeks off at the same time than if everybody suddenly took one week off at the same time.

It's worse for the employees of course, but finding a company that cares about employees is a bit of a grail.  Lots of companies accidentally turn on the grail-shaped beacon, but what you get to do with Zoot is the opposite of the movie.

[Kuildeous]

It would be much worse for the company if everyone suddenly took two weeks off at the same time than if everybody suddenly took one week off at the same time.

I agree with this, but at least with my company, time off has to be approved, and there are policies in place to avoid having too many people off at once. Is this not typical with other companies?

[sitnaltax]

It's not that the company wants you to take personal time. It's that employees having the hours banked is a liability, and the CFO would be happier if that liability were smaller.

I believe you, but I don't know why this would be. Could you explain?

Warning: I've had a little bit of finance training, but I'm not an accountant.

When you accrue PTO, the company accrues a liability equal to the equivalent of your wages for the time you're entitled to. (Examples: http://smallbusiness.chron.com/book-paid-time-off-accounting-32807.html, https://www.proformative.com/questions/accounting-for-pto ; googling for "accounting PTO" will turn up more). To my understanding, this is true even if your PTO can't be "paid out" as cash when you leave. So if lots of employees have 80 hours of personal time banked up, this shows up as a large liability. The only way to reduce it is to have employees take the time off, thus, the rule requiring that employees can't save as much.

Kirian's point about the risk of having all the employees take time off at the same time is interesting and possibly relevant, but as you point out, it can be mitigated by policy. But that policy doesn't change the accounting rules, which require that the liability be recorded. That's why I conjectured that the CFO, in particular, is the officer who'd care.

[sudgy]

My brother, during a job interview, was asked to find the best algorithm to find the looping point of a linearly linked list that loops back to some point in the middle (so it looks like a P).  The best that we can come up with is n² time, with constant space, or n time with n space.  However, the person doing the interview claimed that he had n time with constant space.  Can any of you think of the answer?  My brother and I have been trying to think of something to no avail.

[gkrieg13]

My brother, during a job interview, was asked to find the best algorithm to find the looping point of a linearly linked list that loops back to some point in the middle (so it looks like a P).  The best that we can come up with is n² time, with constant space, or n time with n space.  However, the person doing the interview claimed that he had n time with constant space.  Can any of you think of the answer?  My brother and I have been trying to think of something to no avail.

Can you set the next pointer to null in each node as you go along?  That would ruin your linked list, but it would find the point for you when you get to a node with a null pointer. N time and constant space

[sudgy]

My brother, during a job interview, was asked to find the best algorithm to find the looping point of a linearly linked list that loops back to some point in the middle (so it looks like a P).  The best that we can come up with is n² time, with constant space, or n time with n space.  However, the person doing the interview claimed that he had n time with constant space.  Can any of you think of the answer?  My brother and I have been trying to think of something to no avail.

Can you set the next pointer to null in each node as you go along?  That would ruin your linked list, but it would find the point for you when you get to a node with a null pointer. N time and constant space

Forgot to mention, you can't kill the list too.

(Actually, in the interview my brother found several solutions, including this one, and each time the interviewer asked if there was another way that was better in some way.)

Keep in mind that the guy could have been stupid too and he doesn't actually have a solution.  It would be hard to prove that though.

[gkrieg13]

My brother, during a job interview, was asked to find the best algorithm to find the looping point of a linearly linked list that loops back to some point in the middle (so it looks like a P).  The best that we can come up with is n² time, with constant space, or n time with n space.  However, the person doing the interview claimed that he had n time with constant space.  Can any of you think of the answer?  My brother and I have been trying to think of something to no avail.

Can you set the next pointer to null in each node as you go along?  That would ruin your linked list, but it would find the point for you when you get to a node with a null pointer. N time and constant space

Forgot to mention, you can't kill the list too.

(Actually, in the interview my brother found several solutions, including this one, and each time the interviewer asked if there was another way that was better in some way.)

Keep in mind that the guy could have been stupid too and he doesn't actually have a solution.  It would be hard to prove that though.

Are you allowed to move the list?  Pointers are really just numbers representing memory locations, so you could maybe move them so they are in order and then you know if you get back to the loop part when your pointer doesn’t point to a node anymore because it has been moved. But then you don’t know where in the list you were supposed to be pointing.

Hmmmmm

[Donald X.]

My brother, during a job interview, was asked to find the best algorithm to find the looping point of a linearly linked list that loops back to some point in the middle (so it looks like a P).  The best that we can come up with is n² time, with constant space, or n time with n space.  However, the person doing the interview claimed that he had n time with constant space.  Can any of you think of the answer?  My brother and I have been trying to think of something to no avail.

I've heard this one before. There is an answer.

[blueblimp]

My brother, during a job interview, was asked to find the best algorithm to find the looping point of a linearly linked list that loops back to some point in the middle (so it looks like a P).  The best that we can come up with is n² time, with constant space, or n time with n space.  However, the person doing the interview claimed that he had n time with constant space.  Can any of you think of the answer?  My brother and I have been trying to think of something to no avail.

I was going to accuse that of being a bad interview question because I only knew one solution, which is a bit of a trick answer and not particularly relevant to algorithms you'd actually use. But then I looked up the problem and it turns out there are more easily discoverable algorithms, so maybe it's not so bad after all.

If you get stuck, look on Wikipedia for cycle detection.

[liopoil]

I'm not sure I understand the question. What exactly is n supposed to be? What information exactly are you given and what does each query or whatever tell you?

[sitnaltax]

I'm not sure I understand the question. What exactly is n supposed to be? What information exactly are you given and what does each query or whatever tell you?

This is a slangy way of talking about the efficiency of the algorithm. n is the size of the list. When they're referring to an "n" or "n^2", they're referring to a solution that's O(n) or O(n^2), meaning that as the list grows in size, the time or space needed by the algorithm will grow only by that factor (times some constant) of the input size.

The Wikipedia article is overly technical; CS students get the basics without the tedious mathematical underpinnings, typically in an algorithms course. https://rob-bell.net/2009/06/a-beginners-guide-to-big-o-notation/ is a good quick intro.

[liopoil]

I know how run-time works in general, just not sure precisely what quantity n is referring to in this context. If it's the size of the list, I guess my question is exactly how the list is structured. Before I assumed that the list was infinite and it just started being periodic after some point and the period was around n or something. So now I don't have any real idea what a "linearly linked list" is. If it's like, each element points to its successor, or something, I'm not sure what stops you from just like going down the list until you get somewhere you've already been. If it's just a graph shaped like a P or something, then you're just looking for the vertex with degree three. I'm just trying to guess what this structure is at this point... I guess that's what I meant by "What information exactly are you given" - as in what's the data structure.

[sudgy]

I know how run-time works in general, just not sure precisely what quantity n is referring to in this context. If it's the size of the list, I guess my question is exactly how the list is structured. Before I assumed that the list was infinite and it just started being periodic after some point and the period was around n or something. So now I don't have any real idea what a "linearly linked list" is. If it's like, each element points to its successor, or something, I'm not sure what stops you from just like going down the list until you get somewhere you've already been. If it's just a graph shaped like a P or something, then you're just looking for the vertex with degree three. I'm just trying to guess what this structure is at this point... I guess that's what I meant by "What information exactly are you given" - as in what's the data structure.

Code: [Select]

struct Node {
    Type data;
    Node* next;
};
With this, the only operation you can do to traverse the list is go to the next element in it.  You are given the first node, and that's it.

[silverspawn]

Apropos to nothing, this is totally worth rereading

[Titandrake]

If it's like, each element points to its successor, or something, I'm not sure what stops you from just like going down the list until you get somewhere you've already been.

Sure, you can do that, but how do you know if you're visiting a place again, if you're only allowed a constant amount of space to store things?

I agree with blueblimp that this doesn't seem like a good question, I only know the trick solution and it's more like a novelty. (Like the problem of switching a and b without defining a 3rd temporary variable.)

[sudgy]

If it's like, each element points to its successor, or something, I'm not sure what stops you from just like going down the list until you get somewhere you've already been.

Sure, you can do that, but how do you know if you're visiting a place again, if you're only allowed a constant amount of space to store things?

I agree with blueblimp that this doesn't seem like a good question, I only know the trick solution and it's more like a novelty. (Like the problem of switching a and b without defining a 3rd temporary variable.)

Trick solution?  I looked up the solutions and they don't seem like tricks to me.  Complicated, yes, but tricks, no.

[Kirian]

Speaking of time constraints:

There isn't enough time to deeply learn everything I want to know about.
There isn't enough time to shallowly learn everything I want to know about.

There isn't even enough time to learn enough to make a list of the things I want to know about, even if I had started 39 years ago.  Mostly because I don't even know of the existence of many of these things.  (These thoughts are precipitated by reading an article on model-based design, which I hadn't heard of until today.)

This doesn't take into account motivation or available spoons, just actual time.

Someone try to cheer me up?

[LastFootnote]

Speaking of time constraints:

There isn't enough time to deeply learn everything I want to know about.
There isn't enough time to shallowly learn everything I want to know about.

There isn't even enough time to learn enough to make a list of the things I want to know about, even if I had started 39 years ago.  Mostly because I don't even know of the existence of many of these things.  (These thoughts are precipitated by reading an article on model-based design, which I hadn't heard of until today.)

This doesn't take into account motivation or available spoons, just actual time.

Someone try to cheer me up?

Your existence is ultimately meaningless. Any knowledge you do or do not acquire is unimportant.









Did it work?

[Seprix]

Speaking of time constraints:

There isn't enough time to deeply learn everything I want to know about.
There isn't enough time to shallowly learn everything I want to know about.

There isn't even enough time to learn enough to make a list of the things I want to know about, even if I had started 39 years ago.  Mostly because I don't even know of the existence of many of these things.  (These thoughts are precipitated by reading an article on model-based design, which I hadn't heard of until today.)

This doesn't take into account motivation or available spoons, just actual time.

Someone try to cheer me up?

If you invest really hard in life extension/immortality, you might get more time.

[Donald X.]

Your existence is ultimately meaningless. Any knowledge you do or do not acquire is unimportant.

Meaning depends on context, which you provide (and I don't mean, the meaning of words, though, that too).

Devoid of context, meaninglessness is also meaningless. Meaninglessness only gets value from you assigning it value and well I don't recommend it.

[Kirian]

Devoid of context, meaninglessness is also meaningless. Meaninglessness only gets value from you assigning it value and well I don't recommend it.

That is oddly comforting, actually.

[silverspawn]

I actually think pleasure and happiness are inherently meaningful.

[Witherweaver]

[crax]

Should I get an avatar?

[Kuildeous]

Should I get an avatar?

If you don't, then someone will yell at you to choose an avatar. That's how I got this one.

I forgot who yelled at me. Was it Silverspawn? I want to say it was Silverspawn.

[Awaclus]

The problem with people not having avatars is that it's more difficult to tell them apart. It's not as big of a problem as having the same card art as someone else or just a very similar color scheme though.

[Tables]

Having an avatar makes it look like you're a member of the community, rather than someone who just joined and is making a few quick posts. It makes you look a little more unique, rather than just a username posting.

[ThetaSigma12]

Having an avatar makes it look like you're a member of the community, rather than someone who just joined and is making a few quick posts. It makes you look a little more unique, rather than just a username posting.

The best avatars are either a painting of you or dominion art.

[Kuildeous]

Having an avatar makes it look like you're a member of the community, rather than someone who just joined and is making a few quick posts.

I think my 3500+ posts may be a dead giveaway.

I know, not everyone is going to look, but yeesh. I don't normally bother with avatars.

[Kirian]

Having an avatar makes it look like you're a member of the community, rather than someone who just joined and is making a few quick posts. It makes you look a little more unique, rather than just a username posting.

The best avatars are either a painting of you or dominion art.

I'm going to explain the joke here because especially new people won't pick up on this:  Tables is Sir Martin.

He also eats tables.

[Donald X.]

Having an avatar makes it look like you're a member of the community, rather than someone who just joined and is making a few quick posts. It makes you look a little more unique, rather than just a username posting.

The best avatars are either a painting of you or dominion art.

I'm going to explain the joke here because especially new people won't pick up on this:  Tables is Sir Martin.

He also eats tables.

Tables may have Martin in his name, but he is not Sir Martin. I don't think Sir Martin has an account here. Sir Destry does.

[Awaclus]

Tables is a Martin and he kind of looks like the art, according to some old posts.

[Kuildeous]

The menu has chai tea latte. The redundancy is killing me.

[pingpongsam]

The menu has chai tea latte. The redundancy is killing me.

Is there no espresso involved?

[Kuildeous]

The menu has chai tea latte. The redundancy is killing me.

Is there no espresso involved?

You can order a shot of espresso to be added.

[pingpongsam]

The menu has chai tea latte. The redundancy is killing me.

Is there no espresso involved?

You can order a shot of espresso to be added.

I think latte is an acceptable truncation of caffelatte but otherwise, yes, means "with milk". Chai certainly denotes milk but also some spices, no? cardamom, cinnamon and ginger IIRC.

[pacovf]

Chai just means tea.

I am also amused by garbanzo beans. Garbanzo means chickpea.

[Joseph2302]

Tables is a Martin and he kind of looks like the art, according to some old posts.

Kind of in the sense that they both have beards.
Sir Martin looks much better though.

[Awaclus]

[Seprix]

Should I get an avatar?

If you don't, then someone will yell at you to choose an avatar. That's how I got this one.

I forgot who yelled at me. Was it Silverspawn? I want to say it was Silverspawn.

Pretty sure it was me. Anyways the argument you posed regarding judgement and avatars was the reason you took it down (and still basically have it down for all intents and purposes)

[Kuildeous]

Pretty sure it was me. Anyways the argument you posed regarding judgement and avatars was the reason you took it down (and still basically have it down for all intents and purposes)

Ah yes, good times.

[Kirian]

Having an avatar makes it look like you're a member of the community, rather than someone who just joined and is making a few quick posts. It makes you look a little more unique, rather than just a username posting.

The best avatars are either a painting of you or dominion art.

I'm going to explain the joke here because especially new people won't pick up on this:  Tables is Sir Martin.

He also eats tables.

Tables may have Martin in his name, but he is not Sir Martin. I don't think Sir Martin has an account here. Sir Destry does.

I sit corrected.  Somehow I had gotten the idea that they were the same person.

[Kuildeous]

So I was aware of a game called Kingdom Hearts, and I knew it was Disneyed, which may explain why it never really made a serious blip on my radar.

But I've seen claims that it's a really amazing game –even possibly the best video game of all time.

Is it really that great, I ask of the people who are probably younger and hipper than me. I still have my PS3, so it should be a very simple purchase if I decide to go that route.

And for the sake of getting my wife involved, does it have spiders?

[Awaclus]

And for the sake of getting my wife involved, does it have spiders?

I understand that spiders are super cute and all, but not wanting to get involved with anything that doesn't have spiders sounds a bit extreme.

[LastFootnote]

So I was aware of a game called Kingdom Hearts, and I knew it was Disneyed, which may explain why it never really made a serious blip on my radar.

But I've seen claims that it's a really amazing game –even possibly the best video game of all time.

Is it really that great, I ask of the people who are probably younger and hipper than me. I still have my PS3, so it should be a very simple purchase if I decide to go that route.

And for the sake of getting my wife involved, does it have spiders?

I have not played any Kingdom Hearts game. I watched my housemate play an early part of the first Kingdom Hearts game once. It looked super boring.

[Titandrake]

So I was aware of a game called Kingdom Hearts, and I knew it was Disneyed, which may explain why it never really made a serious blip on my radar.

But I've seen claims that it's a really amazing game –even possibly the best video game of all time.

Is it really that great, I ask of the people who are probably younger and hipper than me. I still have my PS3, so it should be a very simple purchase if I decide to go that route.

And for the sake of getting my wife involved, does it have spiders?

I have not played any Kingdom Hearts game. I watched my housemate play an early part of the first Kingdom Hearts game once. It looked super boring.

I got into it when I was a teenager and a bit more impressionable, but yes it's fun.

The battle system in the first game looks less impressive than the battle system in later games.

They can be a bit easy in that on regular difficulties you can mash the attack button and end up winning anyways.

[ConMan]

I just realised that you can take a Ferry in order to Inherit a Crown, which then lets you Counterfeit your Estates. The thematic implications are doing my head in.

[ThetaSigma12]

Does saying "Everything I say is false" imply that some things I say are true? My gut tells me yes but it's really funky.

[sudgy]

Does saying "Everything I say is false" imply that some things I say are true? My gut tells me yes but it's really funky.

This sentence is a paradox, thus anything involving it is meaningless.  It doesn't even make sense to talk about anything when you assume that saying "Everything I say is false" is possible.

[Awaclus]

It doesn't even make sense to talk about anything when you assume that saying "Everything I say is false" is possible.

It is possible. I just tried and I could say it just fine, although my pronunciation might not have been perfect.

[LastFootnote]

Does saying "Everything I say is false" imply that some things I say are true? My gut tells me yes but it's really funky.

According to my logic classes, it's effectively word salad. It's syntactically correct, but not meaningful, like "Colorless green ideas sleep furiously".

[ThetaSigma12]

My thinking was involved. using Reductio Ad Absurdum on the statement "Some things I say are true". If you negate that you get "No things I say are true", and if you say that you get a contradiction, proving the orginal statement.

I'm guessing that this is just pseudo-logic. It sounds logical but it makes no logicao sense.

[scott_pilgrim]

Does saying "Everything I say is false" imply that some things I say are true? My gut tells me yes but it's really funky.

Well it does in the same sense that anything can be derived from a contradiction. Saying "I am four years old and I'm also not four years old" implies I am four years old, I'm not four years old, the moon is made of cheese, and unicorns are real.

My thinking was involved. using Reductio Ad Absurdum on the statement "Some things I say are true". If you negate that you get "No things I say are true", and if you say that you get a contradiction, proving the orginal statement.

I'm guessing that this is just pseudo-logic. It sounds logical but it makes no logicao sense.

But this argument works independently of whether you started with the statement "Everything I say is false". You're just proving that, in general, "some things I say are true" always holds; it's a tautology. If you also say "Everything I say is false", now you just get a contradiction, because that sentence is always a contradiction; it's (logically equivalent to) the negation of a tautology.

[Watno]

Wow, this is confusing. You can say "some things I say are true" and be lying, for example if the only things you say are that and "1=2".
How does that work with the negation of "some things i say are true" being the paradoxon "everything I say is false"?

[ThetaSigma12]

Wow, this is confusing. You can say "some things I say are true" and be lying, for example if the only things you say are that and "1=2".
How does that work with the negation of "some things i say are true" being the paradoxon "everything I say is false"?

Well in your example the statement is true I think. If you only say that "Some things I say are true" and "1=2" (waiting for the edgecasers on that one) then "Some things I say are true" can be true, if it refers to itself. It's the equivalent of saying "This statement is true."

[Witherweaver]

There is a class of phrases that can not be assigned a truth value.  Basically, metalanguage falls into this.

So in generality, there isn't a true/false dichotomy but rather a true/false/NA trichitomy.

I suppose that's why reducto ad absurdum does not work. To show false cannot he true is not the same as showing true.

[ThetaSigma12]

There is a class of phrases that can not be assigned a truth value.  Basically, metalanguage falls into this.

So in generality, there isn't a true/false dichotomy but rather a true/false/NA trichitomy.

I suppose that's why reducto ad absurdum does not work. To show false cannot he true is not the same as showing true.

Where does the law of non-existent middle come into play then? Are you saying paradoxes like "Everything I say is false" fall into the same category as "What's the weather like?" and "Go put on your shoes!" or other sentences with no truth value? That wasn't really the way I learned it but I suppose it makes sense.

Regarding Reductio Ad Absurdum, I think it doesn't apply because "Some things I say are true" isn't an argument, it's just a premise.

[pacovf]

There's a puzzle I enjoy that exposes the problem, I think.

Assume there's two chests in front of you. One has treasure inside, the other is trapped. In front of the one on the left, there's a sign that says "This treasure is trapped"; in front of the one on the right, there's a sign that says "Exactly one of these signs is truthful". Which chest do you open?

Solution:

If the sign on the right is truthful, then the one on the left has to be false, hence the treasure is on the left. But if the sign on the right is false,
then the one on the left still has to be false, so the treasure is on the left still. So you should open the chest on the left.

You follow the logic and decide which chest to open. Yet, just before you open either:

I come in and switch both signs with each other, so that the one that used to be on the left is now on the right, and viceversa.

What do you do now? Which chest do you open?

This shows that you were starting the problem with a wrong assumption, which is that all statements are either True or False, which logically leads to spurious results, as all wrong assumptions are wont to do.

[Witherweaver]

There is a class of phrases that can not be assigned a truth value.  Basically, metalanguage falls into this.

So in generality, there isn't a true/false dichotomy but rather a true/false/NA trichitomy.

I suppose that's why reducto ad absurdum does not work. To show false cannot he true is not the same as showing true.

Where does the law of non-existent middle come into play then? Are you saying paradoxes like "Everything I say is false" fall into the same category as "What's the weather like?" and "Go put on your shoes!" or other sentences with no truth value? That wasn't really the way I learned it but I suppose it makes sense.

Regarding Reductio Ad Absurdum, I think it doesn't apply because "Some things I say are true" isn't an argument, it's just a premise.

Hmm.. I suppose I was only referring to assertions, that you could otherwise evaluate as true or false, but it's actually nonsensical to do so.

[silverspawn]

There's a puzzle I enjoy that exposes the problem, I think.

Assume there's two chests in front of you. One has treasure inside, the other is trapped. In front of the one on the left, there's a sign that says "This treasure is trapped"; in front of the one on the right, there's a sign that says "Exactly one of these signs is truthful". Which chest do you open?

Solution:

If the sign on the right is truthful, then the one on the left has to be false, hence the treasure is on the left. But if the sign on the right is false,
then the one on the left still has to be false, so the treasure is on the left still. So you should open the chest on the left.

You follow the logic and decide which chest to open. Yet, just before you open either:

I come in and switch both signs with each other, so that the one that used to be on the left is now on the right, and viceversa.

What do you do now? Which chest do you open?

This shows that you were starting the problem with a wrong assumption, which is that all statements are either True or False, which logically leads to spurious results, as all wrong assumptions are wont to do.

That puzzle doesn't show anything. You have two signs which say things, then when you switch them they say different things. The old signs have truth values and the new signs may have different truth values because they are different statements.

Every statement is either true or false not not distinctly defined. Paradoxes are either things which are confusing or highly unintuitive or so mething but can actually be resolved, or they are about non-distinct definitions.

[silverspawn]

"Everything I say is false" is not well defined because it references itself. You can do countless stuff like that.

[Kirian]

"1=2" (waiting for the edgecasers on that one)

1.49999 and 1.50001 round to 1 and 2 respectively if you're only using 1 significant digit, but are much closer to each other.  That's about the best edge case I can come up with.

This is the same as "2 + 2 = 5, for sufficiently large values of 2," where 2.3 is sufficiently large.

[pacovf]

I am confused, you both say that a statement can only be either true or false, then you say that a statement can also not be properly defined. In the second case, you are agreeing with me.

[scott_pilgrim]

"1=2" (waiting for the edgecasers on that one)

1.49999 and 1.50001 round to 1 and 2 respectively if you're only using 1 significant digit, but are much closer to each other.  That's about the best edge case I can come up with.

Well, 1=2 if you're doing mod 1 arithmetic.

[silverspawn]

I am confused, you both say that a statement can only be either true or false, then you say that a statement can also not be properly defined. In the second case, you are agreeing with me.

Well, I'm saying statements can either be true or false or not properly defined (it's obvious that the last category exists – if I say "smoking is good" then that's not properly defined because 'good' doesn't have a distinct meaning). In other words, the only way a statement can be neither true nor false is if it doesn't have a real meaning. I'm not sure if that is disagreeing with you, I got the sense that it's disagreeing with WW at least.

On a separate note, I also wouldn't count "exactly one of these signs is true" as a properly defined statement because it also references itself. By doing that you can always construct paradoxes, like having a sentence A which says "sentence B is true" and a sentence B which says "sentence A is false"; any assignment of truth values is inconsistent. But there's no magic there, it's just the two formulas

A ⇔ B
B ⇔ ¬A

... which contradict.

But that's not the point I was making – the point I was making was that even if the signs had proper statements, there is nothing shown by the story/puzzle, because the statements change when the signs trade positions, and of course different statements mean different things.

[pacovf]

Try asking the first part of the puzzle to anybody that likes logic puzzles. You will see that they will follow the logic in the first puzzle and tell you where the treasure is, because they are implicitly assuming that all statements are either true or false. Changing the signs positions obviously change the nature of the statements, but they will realize that if they try to follow the same logic again, they would be forced to conclude that the treasure is in the other chest now, which obviously makes no sense! And they will have some trouble figuring out what the mistake in their reasoning was, which is that statements can be neither true nor false (improperly defined, as you call them). That’s what the puzzle is attempting to illustrate.

[Awaclus]

Try asking the first part of the puzzle to anybody that likes logic puzzles. You will see that they will follow the logic in the first puzzle and tell you where the treasure is, because they are implicitly assuming that all statements are either true or false. Changing the signs positions obviously change the nature of the statements, but they will realize that if they try to follow the same logic again, they would be forced to conclude that the treasure is in the other chest now, which obviously makes no sense! And they will have some trouble figuring out what the mistake in their reasoning was, which is that statements can be neither true nor false (improperly defined, as you call them). That’s what the puzzle is attempting to illustrate.

I have another puzzle:

Assume there's two chests in front of you. One has treasure inside, the other is trapped. In front of the one on the left, there's a sign that says "This treasure is trapped"; in front of the one on the right, there's a sign that says "This treasure is not trapped". Which chest do you open?

Solution:

you open the one on the right because it's not trapped

You follow the logic and decide which chest to open. Yet, just before you open either:

I come in and switch both signs with each other, so that the one that used to be on the left is now on the right, and viceversa.

What do you do now? Which chest do you open?

[pacovf]

In your case, only making the assumption that statements have to be either true or false, I can’t make any conclusion about where the treasure is in either case, so there is no problem.

[silverspawn]

Try asking the first part of the puzzle to anybody that likes logic puzzles. You will see that they will follow the logic in the first puzzle and tell you where the treasure is, because they are implicitly assuming that all statements are either true or false. Changing the signs positions obviously change the nature of the statements, but they will realize that if they try to follow the same logic again, they would be forced to conclude that the treasure is in the other chest now, which obviously makes no sense! And they will have some trouble figuring out what the mistake in their reasoning was, which is that statements can be neither true nor false (improperly defined, as you call them). That’s what the puzzle is attempting to illustrate.

It just seems the same to as the much simpler case of 2 chests, 1 sign saying "treasure here" which you then move right before the corresponding chest is opened.

[pacovf]

It is not. “Treasure here” could be either true or false, so you can’t get any information out of it. In the scenario I describe, if you assume that statements have to be either true or false, then the treasure is necessarily on the left.

I will remember to change the delivery of this puzzle next time.

[silverspawn]

Oh now I get it. Your point is that because both assigning "true" and assigning "false" to the signs leads to the same result, so therefore the treasure MUST be left. I was wondering why you'd have to believe any of the signs in the first place.

Ok. In that case my original reply misses the point because misunderstood what you were trying to say.

The actual problem is what I said about self-referencing: "exactly one of us is truthful" depends on itself. It afaik not possible to replicate that effect without having a self-referencing statement.

[ConMan]

Oh now I get it. Your point is that because both assigning "true" and assigning "false" to the signs leads to the same result, so therefore the treasure MUST be left. I was wondering why you'd have to believe any of the signs in the first place.

Ok. In that case my original reply misses the point because misunderstood what you were trying to say.

The actual problem is what I said about self-referencing: "exactly one of us is truthful" depends on itself. It afaik not possible to replicate that effect without having a self-referencing statement.

Not true. It's difficult, but possible. For example:

"yields negation when preceded by its quotation" yields negation when preceded by its quotation.

Also, in more mathematical terms you can get into stuff like Godel numbering and things which kind of side-step the self-referential problem.

[Kirian]

Try asking the first part of the puzzle to anybody that likes logic puzzles. You will see that they will follow the logic in the first puzzle and tell you where the treasure is, because they are implicitly assuming that all statements are either true or false. Changing the signs positions obviously change the nature of the statements, but they will realize that if they try to follow the same logic again, they would be forced to conclude that the treasure is in the other chest now, which obviously makes no sense! And they will have some trouble figuring out what the mistake in their reasoning was, which is that statements can be neither true nor false (improperly defined, as you call them). That’s what the puzzle is attempting to illustrate.

I have another puzzle:

Assume there's two chests in front of you. One has treasure inside, the other is trapped. In front of the one on the left, there's a sign that says "This treasure is trapped"; in front of the one on the right, there's a sign that says "This treasure is not trapped". Which chest do you open?

Solution:

you open the one on the right because it's not trapped

You follow the logic and decide which chest to open. Yet, just before you open either:

I come in and switch both signs with each other, so that the one that used to be on the left is now on the right, and viceversa.

What do you do now? Which chest do you open?

"They were both poisoned.  I've spent the last few years building up an immunity to iocaine."

[silverspawn]

Oh now I get it. Your point is that because both assigning "true" and assigning "false" to the signs leads to the same result, so therefore the treasure MUST be left. I was wondering why you'd have to believe any of the signs in the first place.

Ok. In that case my original reply misses the point because misunderstood what you were trying to say.

The actual problem is what I said about self-referencing: "exactly one of us is truthful" depends on itself. It afaik not possible to replicate that effect without having a self-referencing statement.

Not true. It's difficult, but possible. For example:
"yields negation when preceded by its quotation" yields negation when preceded by its quotation.

You'll have to explain that. Negation of what?

[Titandrake]

Oh now I get it. Your point is that because both assigning "true" and assigning "false" to the signs leads to the same result, so therefore the treasure MUST be left. I was wondering why you'd have to believe any of the signs in the first place.

Ok. In that case my original reply misses the point because misunderstood what you were trying to say.

The actual problem is what I said about self-referencing: "exactly one of us is truthful" depends on itself. It afaik not possible to replicate that effect without having a self-referencing statement.

Not true. It's difficult, but possible. For example:
"yields negation when preceded by its quotation" yields negation when preceded by its quotation.

You'll have to explain that. Negation of what?

Negation of the phrase "yields negation when preceded by its quotation".

Suppose ""yields negation when preceded by its quotation" yields negation when preceded by its quotation" = false. Let's call that entire statement A. If we took the phrase "yields negation when preceded by its quotation", and added its quotation in front of it, we get A, so it's false. But it's also true, because we did indeed get a negation when we preceded the phrase with its own quotation.

By a similar argument, if A is true, then A should be false, because we're supposed to get a negation.

[pingpongsam]

The false assumption is that I must open a treasure. Also, that the silly signs are the only means I have to detect a trap (if there even is one) or if there is even any treasure to be had. I can easily elect to not open either chest. I can employ other means of trap/treasure detection. I'd probably just walk away, though. Where does that leave your navel gazing ramblings about logic?

[Kuildeous]

I wrote a trap in D&D that used the player assumptions against them.

I cannot remember the exact wording of the puzzle, but it basically asked the reader what color was the bear. Options were brown, grey, or black. There were three buttons of those colors.

The thing was that if you pressed the correct answer, that triggered the trap. After all, who is going to guard the entry to his house with an easily solved riddle? Those who examined the buttons saw little notches that were a reminder to the owner of which order to press them.

Friend of mine yelled at me rather vociferously because his character found the notches and conveyed this to everyone else, but they were too focused on the puzzle and simply assumed that getting the puzzle right is the correct course of action.

Silly puzzle traps.

[silverspawn]

I... still don't get it. What does it mean to "yield a negation?"

[ConMan]

I... still don't get it. What does it mean to "yield a negation?"

Basically, "generates a false statement". It's terrible language, but that's because (a) it's not mine (it's Quine's, I believe), and (b) you have to use slightly awful phrasing to make something that works without being directly self-referential.

Roughly speaking, "yields negation when preceded by its quotation" means "take X, put it in quotes, then put it in again without quotes, and you get a false statement". In other words, it's saying that for some phrase X, the sentence "X", X is false. It just so happens that the phrase we chose to test is itself.

[silverspawn]

I see. Very clever.

So A = "X"X and X = yields negation when proceded by its quotation. A true => "X"X false => A false => "X"X true => A true.

... but there is still self-referencing going on here because X references itself. "yields negation when proceded by its quotation".

[Kirian]

I wrote a trap in D&D that used the player assumptions against them.

I cannot remember the exact wording of the puzzle, but it basically asked the reader what color was the bear. Options were brown, grey, or black. There were three buttons of those colors.

The thing was that if you pressed the correct answer, that triggered the trap. After all, who is going to guard the entry to his house with an easily solved riddle? Those who examined the buttons saw little notches that were a reminder to the owner of which order to press them.

Friend of mine yelled at me rather vociferously because his character found the notches and conveyed this to everyone else, but they were too focused on the puzzle and simply assumed that getting the puzzle right is the correct course of action.

Silly puzzle traps.

Who would guard the entry with an easily-solved riddle?  Maybe the same guy who has to remind himself of a three-key combination? :p

[schadd]

watno
a town

thetasigma12
2 games: i 1 that.

witherweaver
raw view there

pacovf
fav cop

silverspawn
srs vile pawn

kirian
rank II

scott_pilgrim
plot misc_grit

awaclus
u as claw

conman
moan "n.c."

titandrake
kid ran at e.t.

pingpongsam
mapping song

kuildeous
i use loud? k.

[Kuildeous]

I wrote a trap in D&D that used the player assumptions against them.

I cannot remember the exact wording of the puzzle, but it basically asked the reader what color was the bear. Options were brown, grey, or black. There were three buttons of those colors.

The thing was that if you pressed the correct answer, that triggered the trap. After all, who is going to guard the entry to his house with an easily solved riddle? Those who examined the buttons saw little notches that were a reminder to the owner of which order to press them.

Friend of mine yelled at me rather vociferously because his character found the notches and conveyed this to everyone else, but they were too focused on the puzzle and simply assumed that getting the puzzle right is the correct course of action.

Silly puzzle traps.

Who would guard the entry with an easily-solved riddle?  Maybe the same guy who has to remind himself of a three-key combination? :p

Well, got to throw the players some bone. Besides, it was his secret entry through the sewers; not his main one.

Still, seeing the assumptions blow up in people's faces was a bit of schadenfreude.

[Kuildeous]

Man, I hate it when I get a Christmas song stuck in my head and it's not even Halloween yet. But what can I say? The Gremlins theme song is awfully catchy.

[crax]

Man, I hate it when I get a Christmas song stuck in my head and it's not even Halloween yet. But what can I say? The Gremlins theme song is awfully catchy.

oh man, christmas songs drive me up the wall. not god rest ye merry gentlemen though for some reason
I'll listen to the gremlins theme song and see if I can derive some joy from it, not before december though

[ashersky]

watno
a town

thetasigma12
2 games: i 1 that.

witherweaver
raw view there

pacovf
fav cop

silverspawn
srs vile pawn

kirian
rank II

scott_pilgrim
plot misc_grit

awaclus
u as claw

conman
moan "n.c."

titandrake
kid ran at e.t.

pingpongsam
mapping song

kuildeous
i use loud? k.

What’s it take to get on your shortlist?

[schadd]

u can post on random stuff part III pages 59

[Kuildeous]

Man, talk about exclusive.

[Titandrake]

Man, talk about exclusive.

You just need to post on every page of the Random Stuff thread from now to, to get insurance in case schadd does something similar again.

[Awaclus]

And change your settings to display 50 posts per page.

[markusin]

The question came up on whether the Microsoft Excel name is in conflict with Wrigley's Excel gum. Wouldn't you know it, the Excel gum packages are stylized as "excel", with lowercase 'e', on the packaging.

I just seemed like a funny coincidence when it came up.

[AndrewisFTTW]

[Preface: I'm a drummer.]

Today I dropped a stick while playing a song with brushes. Achievement unlocked!

[silverspawn]

I just realized that the squire in squire is actually just the guy at the right. I don't think I even knew that there was a guy at the right until now.

[sudgy]

I just realized that the squire in squire is actually just the guy at the right. I don't think I even knew that there was a guy at the right until now.

I'm the exact opposite.  I always knew the squire was the guy on the right and never closely looked at what he was doing.  By you mentioning this, I looked at the card, and noticed the horse for the first time.

[ThetaSigma12]

I have always realized that Squire is the guy on the right and that there is a horse in the art.

This is scary. I was reading through unread posts on this thread and thought about posting this in the Brag Board. I click over to my unreads there and the first thing is almost exactly what I was about to post. Wow, Awaclus is realllly rubbing off on me.

[Awaclus]

I have always realized that Squire is the guy on the right and that there is a horse in the art.

This is scary. I was reading through unread posts on this thread and thought about posting this in the Brag Board. I click over to my unreads there and the first thing is almost exactly what I was about to post. Wow, Awaclus is realllly rubbing off on me.

Great Wandering Winders think alike.

[sudgy]

Oooh, it is on, ladies and gentlemen.

Will StrongRhino take up the gauntlet? Will we be witnesses to an upvoting surge the likes of which f.ds hasn't seen since Walrus spree in the roguelike thread? There's only one way to know!

Everybody take one last look at your respect:post ratio, 'cos it is gonna assssssplode!!

The forum today shows that this might finally be happening.

[pacovf]

I am still trying to pass Polk540. It's taking a while. Polk, stop upvoting people.

[Seprix]

[Preface: I'm a drummer.]

Today I dropped a stick while playing a song with brushes. Achievement unlocked!

How is a drum solo like a sneeze?

You know it's coming, and there's nothing you can do about it.

[Kuildeous]

Damn, for the first time ever, I got my hands on a fidget spinner. And now it's fun.

I know that wasn't the original purpose of fidget spinners, but there it is.

[ThetaSigma12]

Man, where's eHalcyon been? It's been forever since I've seen him around.

[Seprix]

Man, where's eHalcyon been? It's been forever since I've seen him around.

Looks like eHalcyon made like Hal.

Daisyyyyy... Daiiiisy...

[Seprix]

I had a random (heh) thought.

I was thinking about quantum physics and my very very limited knowledge of it. How at the very core of it all, it's entirely random. There's no pattern. But what if there was? What if quantum mechanics at its very core was a highly complex chain that was so incredibly long that it might as well be random? They probably have math to prove it's actually random, again I don't have a lot of knowledge on quantum mechanics.

Another note on eHalcyon: He may have just finally moved on from F.DS as a whole. His last post was in May, but his last log-in was in September. We might not see much (if anything) of him anymore, which is a shame. 

[Witherweaver]

Random is not the same as without pattern.

[sudgy]

I was thinking about quantum physics and my very very limited knowledge of it. How at the very core of it all, it's entirely random. There's no pattern. But what if there was? What if quantum mechanics at its very core was a highly complex chain that was so incredibly long that it might as well be random? They probably have math to prove it's actually random, again I don't have a lot of knowledge on quantum mechanics.

Quantum mechanics is not "entirely random".  We have a set of observations, and several theories that explain those observations.  Parts of those theories say that particles have a probability to be in certain places, to have certain momenta, etc.  The theories are probabilistic, yes, but not entirely random.  Quantum mechanics is a theory, so there can't be more stuff going on than we've given it, so there can't be some hidden part of the theory that we haven't determined (okay, maybe we haven't figured out some distant consequence, but nothing could change the probabilistic aspect of quantum mechanics).

Of course, there isn't any proof that these theories are reality.  Maybe objects are always in certain places and have certain momenta and we just can't measure them (this is called a hidden variable theory).  Maybe every possibility is another universe and we're just in one of them.  Maybe objects do inherently have probabilistic positions and momenta.  There's no scientific evidence for any of these theories so we're just left to speculate.

[Seprix]

Random is not the same as without pattern.

Is that true? Randomness necessitates a lack of a pattern. If there was no pattern, it would truly be random. Maybe if there was a guy picking random numbers off the back of his head, but there would be some sort of mental pattern, since humans tend to gravitate towards numbers.

[ConMan]

Random is not the same as without pattern.

Is that true? Randomness necessitates a lack of a pattern. If there was no pattern, it would truly be random. Maybe if there was a guy picking random numbers off the back of his head, but there would be some sort of mental pattern, since humans tend to gravitate towards numbers.

Things with random components can still have patterns. Two random variables may be correlated, meaning that when one varies the other tends to as well. A series of random numbers may be autocorrelated, meaning that its value tends to depend on its previous values in some fashion (for example, a random walk, where I flip a coin that tells me whether to take a step forwards or backwards, is strongly autocorrelated because if I'm 5 steps forward my next position can only be 4 or 6 steps forward).

Even the existence of probability distributions is a form of patterns within randomness - the number of red cars that goes past an intersection each hour will have a different distribution to the number of times I have to roll a d20 until I see a 1.

A lot of work in probability theory and statistics is about trying to see what patterns drive otherwise random processes.

[Witherweaver]

Well try this.  Roll 2d6 and add the sum, record it.  Do this 5000 times and plot the results.  I bet you'll see a pattern.

[Donald X.]

Well try this.  Roll 2d6 and add the sum, record it.  Do this 5000 times and plot the results.  I bet you'll see a pattern.

Take the same set of die rolls. Instead of adding the dice, take six times the first die, plus the second die. Huh, now the pattern is a flat line. What happened?

It sounds like you're giving an example of a pattern found in randomness. What you're actually giving an example of is a pattern found in a pattern. The randomness is superimposed, and you have enough samples that it averages out to not disturbing the pattern you provided. Which was, "how often does each sum occur when adding two numbers from 1 to 6."

[Witherweaver]

Well try this.  Roll 2d6 and add the sum, record it.  Do this 5000 times and plot the results.  I bet you'll see a pattern.

Take the same set of die rolls. Instead of adding the dice, take six times the first die, plus the second die. Huh, now the pattern is a flat line. What happened?

It sounds like you're giving an example of a pattern found in randomness. What you're actually giving an example of is a pattern found in a pattern. The randomness is superimposed, and you have enough samples that it averages out to not disturbing the pattern you provided. Which was, "how often does each sum occur when adding two numbers from 1 to 6."

The flat line would be a pattern, too, inasmuch as the sum distribution was. I considered using the 1d6 example.

So the distribution itself is not random. Random variables obey one, though. It seems a bit arbitrary whether we call that pattern in randomness or randomness superimposed on a pattern. I consider it the former (like ConMan).

[Witherweaver]

So here's a thought.. you want to put a design on your wall, so you make a grid of squares (say odd number of columns), and alternate coloring in one square (the same color for all) and skipping the next, starting at the top left and returning to below the first one for the second row, and so on. So we have a pattern (checkered).

On another wall, do the same thing but at each square, flip a coin to decide whether or not it should be colored.

Do we consider the second case to be without a pattern? There is also one case where the two walls are identical, so does the pattern lie in the end result or in the design?

[pingpongsam]

Random does not mean without pattern, in fact, it means any pattern is possible.

[Awaclus]

I just came up with a life hack that makes me sit in a much healthier position when I'm on the computer (i.e. almost all the time).

I placed the keyboard further away, so that I have to sit pretty straight to reach it comfortably.

[Donald X.]

Well try this.  Roll 2d6 and add the sum, record it.  Do this 5000 times and plot the results.  I bet you'll see a pattern.

Take the same set of die rolls. Instead of adding the dice, take six times the first die, plus the second die. Huh, now the pattern is a flat line. What happened?

It sounds like you're giving an example of a pattern found in randomness. What you're actually giving an example of is a pattern found in a pattern. The randomness is superimposed, and you have enough samples that it averages out to not disturbing the pattern you provided. Which was, "how often does each sum occur when adding two numbers from 1 to 6."

The flat line would be a pattern, too, inasmuch as the sum distribution was. I considered using the 1d6 example.

So the distribution itself is not random. Random variables obey one, though. It seems a bit arbitrary whether we call that pattern in randomness or randomness superimposed on a pattern. I consider it the former (like ConMan).

The flat line is again a pattern that we have provided - the randomness has nothing to do with it.

By rolling lots of dice, you subtract out the randomness, leaving you with just whatever pattern you initially offered up. Randomness has zero to do with your result. Zero. There's no question of "is it a pattern in randomness or randomness on a pattern." You pretended to add randomness and then took it back out. There's whatever tiny bit of noise on top of a pattern that you provided.

[Witherweaver]

Then I guess with that point of view, I don't know what "random" means.

[Witherweaver]

The flat line is again a pattern that we have provided - the randomness has nothing to do with it.

I mean this doesn't seem right. The flat line is fundamentally a property of the die roll. We define it by taking expectations,, but it's still a property of the variable itself.

Edit: I guess 'define by taking expectations' is not correct. I should say define through an integral with respect to the probability measure.

[Donald X.]

Then I guess with that point of view, I don't know what "random" means.

It means unpredictable.

If you roll a die, you get some number from 1 to 6. You don't know what it will be until you roll it. It's random.

If you add up the numbers from 1 to 6 and divide the total by 6, you get 3.5. There's nothing random about that. It's always the same answer.

If you roll a zillion dice, add up the results and divide the total by a zillion, you will get something very close to 3.5. By rolling so many dice we average out the randomness and are left with the original pattern.

It's the same with the bell curve, just harder to see.

[Witherweaver]

Then I guess with that point of view, I don't know what "random" means.

It means unpredictable.

If you roll a die, you get some number from 1 to 6. You don't know what it will be until you roll it. It's random.

If you add up the numbers from 1 to 6 and divide the total by 6, you get 3.5. There's nothing random about that. It's always the same answer.

If you roll a zillion dice, add up the results and divide the total by a zillion, you will get something very close to 3.5. By rolling so many dice we average out the randomness and are left with the original pattern.

It's the same with the bell curve, just harder to see.

But you can make predictions; they just have uncertainty.  You know how likely you are to get each value. If you roll a weighted d6, those probabilities change. Taking averages is one way to get an idea of what those probabilities are.

[Donald X.]

Then I guess with that point of view, I don't know what "random" means.

It means unpredictable.

If you roll a die, you get some number from 1 to 6. You don't know what it will be until you roll it. It's random.

If you add up the numbers from 1 to 6 and divide the total by 6, you get 3.5. There's nothing random about that. It's always the same answer.

If you roll a zillion dice, add up the results and divide the total by a zillion, you will get something very close to 3.5. By rolling so many dice we average out the randomness and are left with the original pattern.

It's the same with the bell curve, just harder to see.

But you can make predictions; they just have uncertainty.  You know how likely you are to get each value. If you roll a weighted d6, those probabilities change. Taking averages is one way to get an idea of what those probabilities are.

Describing the properties of the die, that it has 6 faces equally likely to appear, is not making a prediction.

[pacovf]

Oh boy a probability discussion.

[Awaclus]

Is probability ambiguous?

[sudgy]

Is probability ambiguous?

I would give it a 90-93% chance.

[ConMan]

Is the problem with the word "pattern" rather than, say, "structure"? Something which is random can have an underlying structure which you can use to make predictions. I roll a d6, I'm not going to predict that the roll is 13. I draw my opening hand in Dominion, I know that on a typical board there are only 4 different hands I might see and two of them are more likely than the other two. I look at the stock market today, I can take a guess at where it will be tomorrow. I can never be 100% certain about the outcome of any of those events, but I know *something* about them that lets me make predictions, and if I observe such events a lot of times then, on average, I know what those observations will look like.

[blueblimp]

Oh boy a probability discussion.

More like a definitions-of-English-words discussion disguised as a probability discussion...

[Witherweaver]

Is the problem with the word "pattern" rather than, say, "structure"? Something which is random can have an underlying structure which you can use to make predictions. I roll a d6, I'm not going to predict that the roll is 13. I draw my opening hand in Dominion, I know that on a typical board there are only 4 different hands I might see and two of them are more likely than the other two. I look at the stock market today, I can take a guess at where it will be tomorrow. I can never be 100% certain about the outcome of any of those events, but I know *something* about them that lets me make predictions, and if I observe such events a lot of times then, on average, I know what those observations will look like.

I'm with your thinking on this. I'm not sure I'm following Donald's point.

[Kuildeous]

*there

[Donald X.]

Is the problem with the word "pattern" rather than, say, "structure"? Something which is random can have an underlying structure which you can use to make predictions. I roll a d6, I'm not going to predict that the roll is 13. I draw my opening hand in Dominion, I know that on a typical board there are only 4 different hands I might see and two of them are more likely than the other two. I look at the stock market today, I can take a guess at where it will be tomorrow. I can never be 100% certain about the outcome of any of those events, but I know *something* about them that lets me make predictions, and if I observe such events a lot of times then, on average, I know what those observations will look like.

I'm with your thinking on this. I'm not sure I'm following Donald's point.

You gave an example of randomness having a pattern, but were actually providing the pattern and just adding noise to it that didn't eliminate it. It wasn't a pattern in randomness at all.

[Witherweaver]

Is the problem with the word "pattern" rather than, say, "structure"? Something which is random can have an underlying structure which you can use to make predictions. I roll a d6, I'm not going to predict that the roll is 13. I draw my opening hand in Dominion, I know that on a typical board there are only 4 different hands I might see and two of them are more likely than the other two. I look at the stock market today, I can take a guess at where it will be tomorrow. I can never be 100% certain about the outcome of any of those events, but I know *something* about them that lets me make predictions, and if I observe such events a lot of times then, on average, I know what those observations will look like.

I'm with your thinking on this. I'm not sure I'm following Donald's point.

You gave an example of randomness having a pattern, but were actually providing the pattern and just adding noise to it that didn't eliminate it. It wasn't a pattern in randomness at all.

But the random variable has a probability distribution function, which is what I'm considering as the pattern. Taking a bunch of samples was just a way to visualize it.

[Witherweaver]

Notably, this conversation is on topic.

[pingpongsam]

Notably, this conversation is on topic.

Right, one could observe in this instance and assume a pattern and thus non-random but entropy will prevail.

[schadd]

roses are red.
wrestling is fake.

[Kuildeous]

The problem I have with Pb & J sandwiches is that they sit heavily in my stomach.

Oh, and kill me.

[schadd]

can someone that's on discord tell music that a sun came is my new favorite beck album

thanks x

[schadd]

WOWIE I GUESS I HAVE TO DO EVERYTHING AROUND HERE

[Kuildeous]

can someone that's on discord tell music that a sun came is my new favorite beck album

thanks x

I tried, but I ended up discording music to tell a sun my beck album's favorite came.

I hope this didn't cause World War III.

[Awaclus]

I just had a tooth removed (PSA: drinking a ton of soda is a really bad idea, and not getting your teeth checked by a dentist regularly is another really bad idea).

It was certainly one of the absurdest experiences I've ever had... I could totally feel (and hear!) the tooth breaking and all, but not even the slightest hint of pain because of the local anesthetics. It was very strange.

[ThetaSigma12]

I got a mullet yesterday.

[silverspawn]

the world is too complicated. There is too much stuff.

.

[Kuildeous]

It was certainly one of the absurdest experiences I've ever had... I could totally feel (and hear!) the tooth breaking and all, but not even the slightest hint of pain because of the local anesthetics. It was very strange.

I had that happened when I had my first wisdom tooth pulled. It was a really jarring experience because it sounded like he was tearing my entire mouth apart. Very disconcerting. I didn't feel pain, but I could feel pressure, so I was somewhat grounded. Still it's something that sticks in my memory over 20 years later.

Fortunately when I later received insurance (America, fuck yeah), I could afford to have the rest of the wisdom teeth extracted and could be put under. I'm not sure I could've handled being awake for all three of those. I'm not sure they are allowed to pump that much local into someone for that long.

[Awaclus]

It was certainly one of the absurdest experiences I've ever had... I could totally feel (and hear!) the tooth breaking and all, but not even the slightest hint of pain because of the local anesthetics. It was very strange.

I had that happened when I had my first wisdom tooth pulled. It was a really jarring experience because it sounded like he was tearing my entire mouth apart. Very disconcerting. I didn't feel pain, but I could feel pressure, so I was somewhat grounded. Still it's something that sticks in my memory over 20 years later.

Fortunately when I later received insurance (America, fuck yeah), I could afford to have the rest of the wisdom teeth extracted and could be put under. I'm not sure I could've handled being awake for all three of those. I'm not sure they are allowed to pump that much local into someone for that long.

What has turned out to be even more bizarre than the operation itself is the sinus communication I got from it (which I didn't feel like mentioning in my first post because I only learned that it doesn't happen to most people more recently). Apparently it wasn't too bad because it has already healed, but it was definitely weird for a while. If I didn't hold my nose while drinking, I ended up swallowing mostly air instead of water because the air kept coming into my mouth through the nose and the sinus, and if I held my nose and swallowed before the water was already way past the communication, some of the water would get into my sinus instead of going down my throat.

[heron]

Today is my birthday and I realized that I have been a member of this forum for more than a quarter of my life which is kind of weird.

[pingpongsam]

Today is my 17th wedding anniversary and it occurs on the same day of the week as well. This previously occurred in 2006. We picked the day because it was the anniversary of the day we actually met (because why else get married on a Thursday in November).

[Kuildeous]

Today is my 17th wedding anniversary and it occurs on the same day of the week as well. This previously occurred in 2006. We picked the day because it was the anniversary of the day we actually met (because why else get married on a Thursday in November).

Did you get married at 11:30? Because that would've been epic.

[pingpongsam]

I think it was at 3pm. We did find out afterwards her mother married her father on a Thursday at 3pm on November 30th, though. Why she waited till afterwards to tell us that is a mystery.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Which James Bond film should my girlfriend and I watch tonight?

[jonts26]

Which James Bond film should my girlfriend and I watch tonight?

The world is not enough. That way you won't be missing anything if you spend the whole movie making out.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Which James Bond film should my girlfriend and I watch tonight?

The world is not enough. That way you won't be missing anything if you spend the whole movie making out.

Die Another Day is worse I think.

[jonts26]

Which James Bond film should my girlfriend and I watch tonight?

The world is not enough. That way you won't be missing anything if you spend the whole movie making out.

Die Another Day is worse I think.

Theyre both so bad, it's hard to choose.

[Lekkit]

Which James Bond film should my girlfriend and I watch tonight?

The world is not enough. That way you won't be missing anything if you spend the whole movie making out.

Die Another Day is worse I think.

Theyre both so bad, it's hard to choose.

One has a guy in a suit that can control sunbeams and invisible cars. The other has a guy who wants to control chinese newspapers for 200 years... I don't think it's hard to choose which obe is worse.

[Teproc]

I remember the Brosnan Bonds fondly, but it might have to do with the fact that I was somewhere between 5 and 10 when they were coming out (and have not seen them since).

[pacovf]

Which James Bond film should my girlfriend and I watch tonight?

The world is not enough. That way you won't be missing anything if you spend the whole movie making out.

Die Another Day is worse I think.

Theyre both so bad, it's hard to choose.

One has a guy in a suit that can control sunbeams and invisible cars. The other has a guy who wants to control chinese newspapers for 200 years... I don't think it's hard to choose which obe is worse.

You are confused with Tomorrow Never Dies, that's the one with the media mogul. And that one was awesome.

The World Is Not Enough is the one with the terrorist with a bullet lodged in his head. Die Another Day, is ok, if you accept that the plot makes even less sense than usual, and that the gadgets are ridiculously over the top, even for Brosnan's Bond. Also, that "surfing" sequence, yikes.

[Lekkit]

You are confused with Tomorrow Never Dies, that's the one with the media mogul. And that one was awesome.

The World Is Not Enough is the one with the terrorist with a bullet lodged in his head. Die Another Day, is ok, if you accept that the plot makes even less sense than usual, and that the gadgets are ridiculously over the top, even for Brosnan's Bond. Also, that "surfing" sequence, yikes.

First statement is correct. Second is wrong. The World Is Not Enough is worse than Die Another Day, but still better than Tomorrow Never Dies. TND is one of the least enjoyable movies in the series.

[Awaclus]

I have only seen Casino Royale (2006). It was pretty uninteresting but it was alright.

[Teproc]

Which one has the Russian villain who falls into a vat of caviar ? That happened right, I didn't imagine it ?

[AndrewisFTTW]

Which one has the Russian villain who falls into a vat of caviar ? That happened right, I didn't imagine it ?

I can't remember that ever happening.

Though in Diamonds Are Forever Bond kills a Blofeld double by pouring face-altering-mud-stuff on top of him. And in the book version of Dr. No the main villain dies after Bond dumps a truckload of guano on top of him. Probably not what you're thinking of though.

[Kuildeous]

Which one has the Russian villain who falls into a vat of caviar ? That happened right, I didn't imagine it ?

This is why Arnold Schwarzenegger needs to be a James Bond just so this exact scene can happen, and Bond quips with, "Well, that was egg-cellent."

[Kuildeous]

And the villain's all like, "I rue this roe!"

[Kuildeous]

You could make like a million yolks on this subject.

[Teproc]

Doing some googling, it's definitely The World Is Not Enough, but it might only be that Bond threatens to throw him in the caviar and doesn't actually do it ? I couldn't find a clip. The villain in question was played by Robbie Coltrane, aka Hagrid, which, ok.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Doing some googling, it's definitely The World Is Not Enough, but it might only be that Bond threatens to throw him in the caviar and doesn't actually do it ? I couldn't find a clip. The villain in question was played by Robbie Coltrane, aka Hagrid, which, ok.

I'll check it out when I get home and I'll let you know.

[schadd]

[loud tea whistling noise]

[AndrewisFTTW]

Alright I just watched it. The Russian dude jumps into some caviar to avoid the blades flying towards him from a helicopter Bond blows up. Bond doesn't help him out until he gives him information.

[Teproc]

Alright I just watched it. The Russian dude jumps into some caviar to avoid the blades flying towards him from a helicopter Bond blows up. Bond doesn't help him out until he gives him information.

Ah-ha ! I'm not crazy ! Thank you.

[ThetaSigma12]

Holy crap is BGG giving away a huge amount of geek gold this year.

[AndrewisFTTW]

I don't think The World is Not Enough is that bad honestly. The worst parts were Denise Richards' awful acting and the relentless onslaught of bad puns.

[ThetaSigma12]

and the relentless onslaught of bad puns.

Man, if you have a problem with those why are you on FDS?

[AndrewisFTTW]

and the relentless onslaught of bad puns.

Man, if you have a problem with those why are you on FDS?

Good point, I guess you could say I have a special Bond with f.ds.

[AndrewisFTTW]

From Russia With Puns.

[Dylan32]

From Russia With Puns.

The Man with the Golden Pun

[Kirian]

I don't think The World is Not Enough is that bad honestly. The worst parts were Denise Richards' awful acting and the relentless onslaught of bad puns.

"Christmas comes early" was likely the worst of the batch.

[jonts26]

I don't think The World is Not Enough is that bad honestly. The worst parts were Denise Richards' awful acting and the relentless onslaught of bad puns.

"Christmas comes early" was likely the worst of the batch.

I thought it was "I thought Christmas only came once a year?"

[AndrewisFTTW]

I don't think The World is Not Enough is that bad honestly. The worst parts were Denise Richards' awful acting and the relentless onslaught of bad puns.

"Christmas comes early" was likely the worst of the batch.

He probably says that at some point but I know the last line of the movie is "I thought Christmas comes only once a year".

Edit: ninja'd

[Kuildeous]

As a former Monty-Hall-denier, I can get how people mistakenly think that you have a 50-50 shot of getting the car by sticking with the original door. But it only took a hyperbole of a million doors to make me reconsider my ways and examine the math in full.

So when I see someone make the claim that picking one door out of a million still means he has a 50-50 shot of getting it right, I am absolutely floored by that stubbornness. How can that example not shake somebody's belief? Just how?

[ashersky]

As a former Monty-Hall-denier, I can get how people mistakenly think that you have a 50-50 shot of getting the car by sticking with the original door. But it only took a hyperbole of a million doors to make me reconsider my ways and examine the math in full.

So when I see someone make the claim that picking one door out of a million still means he has a 50-50 shot of getting it right, I am absolutely floored by that stubbornness. How can that example not shake somebody's belief? Just how?

Can you expound?  I don’t see how the million doors applies to a 1 in 3 problem.

On the whole switch thing, what I’ve never understood is how it accounts for the third of the time I selected the right door in the first place.

The argument is that if I choose door A out of A/B/C, and then I’m informed C is definitely wrong, I must change my selection to B, right?  I get that chances went from 1/3 to 1/2, but doesn’t that apply to both A and B?

[ashersky]

As a former Monty-Hall-denier, I can get how people mistakenly think that you have a 50-50 shot of getting the car by sticking with the original door. But it only took a hyperbole of a million doors to make me reconsider my ways and examine the math in full.

So when I see someone make the claim that picking one door out of a million still means he has a 50-50 shot of getting it right, I am absolutely floored by that stubbornness. How can that example not shake somebody's belief? Just how?

Can you expound?  I don’t see how the million doors applies to a 1 in 3 problem.

On the whole switch thing, what I’ve never understood is how it accounts for the third of the time I selected the right door in the first place.

The argument is that if I choose door A out of A/B/C, and then I’m informed C is definitely wrong, I must change my selection to B, right?  I get that chances went from 1/3 to 1/2, but doesn’t that apply to both A and B?

And I don’t mean “stick” with A.  I mean choose A again, with new knowledge.  So, I unchoose A, then make a new decision based on new info.  A or B, knowing one is right and one is wrong.  Can’t A then have the same probability as B?

[scott_pilgrim]

Say you have a million doors, with a prize behind one. You pick one door, the host opens 999,998 of them (not the one you picked), making sure not to open the one with the prize behind it, and then you have the opportunity to switch doors.

You'd have to be crazy not to switch. The host almost certainly picked the door he didn't want to open because it had the prize behind it. There was a 1 in a million chance you originally picked the correct door, but the other 999,999/1,000,000 times, the door that the host went out of his way not to open is the one with the prize behind it.

[scott_pilgrim]

On the whole switch thing, what I’ve never understood is how it accounts for the third of the time I selected the right door in the first place.

That happens 1/3 of the time; in that case, you lose. But that is the only case in which you lose, so if you switch, you now have only a 1/3 chance of losing, which means you have a 2/3 (better than 50-50) chance of winning, so you should switch.

The argument is that if I choose door A out of A/B/C, and then I’m informed C is definitely wrong, I must change my selection to B, right?  I get that chances went from 1/3 to 1/2, but doesn’t that apply to both A and B?

This is the incorrect understanding that most people have. Most people think "now I have picked one door out of 2, instead of one out of 3, so the probability of winning is 1/2 instead of 1/3". This would be correct if this was all the information you had, but the way in which the host chose which door to eliminate changes how the probability is distributed among the two doors.

There are three cases:
A. The prize is behind door A. The host eliminates a random door, you switch to the other one, and lose.
B. The prize is behind door B. The host eliminates door C, you switch to B and win.
C. The prize is behind door C. The host eliminates door B, you switch to C and win.
These cases are all equally likely, and if you switch, you win in 2 out of 3 of them. If you hadn't switched, you would have won in only 1 out of 3 of them (case A).


The argument is the same as in the example with 1 million doors, just that 3 is a lot smaller than 1 million, so the advantage you get by switching is a lot smaller (and less intuitively obvious).

[Kuildeous]

The argument is the same as in the example with 1 million doors, just that 3 is a lot smaller than 1 million, so the advantage you get by switching is a lot smaller (and less intuitively obvious).

I think this is key right here. The minimum number of doors for the Monty Hall problem to work is 3. It is the closest to 50%. And if you run a small number of trials, then you may get numbers that are closer to 50%. Nobody is going to try to run this trial thousands of times to get a truer average.

I did do something similar. I wrote up an Excel sheet and converted it to Google Sheets. I wanted to show that out of 10k trials, the average is close to 2/3. I know some people wrote programs to simulate this, but not everyone can see what the code is or be assured that it was that code that produced the results. I wrote this to a) be accessible to anybody and b) be verifiable and c) be able to duplicated. A person could copy this sheet, verify the top row, and copy the formulas 10k times (or more). I've shown this to a few people, and no one has disputed my formulas yet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1mkpiI3nW8rVxZJML2Hj6I2o_cSXC6-JOoe4YvcTgYFY/edit?usp=sharing

I understand the 50% misunderstanding. I was there. It feels so intuitive because you do have two doors, so of course it's 1 in 2, right? Except that like Scott pointed out, you're not randomly choosing from two doors. You're only re-evaluating your initial choice. That choice was 1 in 3 to begin with, and that probability does not change because it's not a new problem.

But, smarter people than me have fallen for it, as evident by how nasty PhDs can get when they think they're right:
http://marilynvossavant.com/game-show-problem/

[Witherweaver]

Say you have a million doors, with a prize behind one. You pick one door, the host opens 999,998 of them (not the one you picked), making sure not to open the one with the prize behind it, and then you have the opportunity to switch doors.

You'd have to be crazy not to switch. The host almost certainly picked the door he didn't want to open because it had the prize behind it. There was a 1 in a million chance you originally picked the correct door, but the other 999,999/1,000,000 times, the door that the host went out of his way not to open is the one with the prize behind it.

This is phrased slightly misleadingly. The premise of the problem is that the host of opens remaining doors without prizes, so there is no guessing of host's intention.

edit: sorry, I should say remaining up to all but one that are without prizes. If all are without prizes the opening is selected with equal probability.

[Kuildeous]

One thing I've read (without citation) is that in practice, Monty only revealed a goat when the contestant correctly chose the car. In this regard, it would be using a person's knowledge of probability against him. But if you watched enough of the show to know for certain that Monty reveals a goat only when the selected door has a car, then that has its own power.

It also goes against the premise of the puzzle which presumes that Monty always reveals n-2 goats.

[sudgy]

That choice was 1 in 3 to begin with, and that probability does not change because it's not a new problem.

This is probably the most intuitive description I've ever seen describing the solution to the problem.  +1

[scott_pilgrim]

Say you have a million doors, with a prize behind one. You pick one door, the host opens 999,998 of them (not the one you picked), making sure not to open the one with the prize behind it, and then you have the opportunity to switch doors.

You'd have to be crazy not to switch. The host almost certainly picked the door he didn't want to open because it had the prize behind it. There was a 1 in a million chance you originally picked the correct door, but the other 999,999/1,000,000 times, the door that the host went out of his way not to open is the one with the prize behind it.

This is phrased slightly misleadingly. The premise of the problem is that the host of opens remaining doors without prizes, so there is no guessing of host's intention.

edit: sorry, I should say remaining up to all but one that are without prizes. If all are without prizes the opening is selected with equal probability.

I'm not sure what you mean but I agree I didn't say that clearly. What I meant was that in almost all cases, the host is forced to open all but the door with the prize behind it.

I guess another way you can think about it is that when you switch, you are betting that the prize is behind any one of the doors you didn't originally pick; if you don't switch, you are betting it is behind the single door you originally picked.

[Witherweaver]

Say you have a million doors, with a prize behind one. You pick one door, the host opens 999,998 of them (not the one you picked), making sure not to open the one with the prize behind it, and then you have the opportunity to switch doors.

You'd have to be crazy not to switch. The host almost certainly picked the door he didn't want to open because it had the prize behind it. There was a 1 in a million chance you originally picked the correct door, but the other 999,999/1,000,000 times, the door that the host went out of his way not to open is the one with the prize behind it.

This is phrased slightly misleadingly. The premise of the problem is that the host of opens remaining doors without prizes, so there is no guessing of host's intention.

edit: sorry, I should say remaining up to all but one that are without prizes. If all are without prizes the opening is selected with equal probability.

I'm not sure what you mean but I agree I didn't say that clearly. What I meant was that in almost all cases, the host is forced to open all but the door with the prize behind it.

I guess another way you can think about it is that when you switch, you are betting that the prize is behind any one of the doors you didn't originally pick; if you don't switch, you are betting it is behind the single door you originally picked.

I just mean the way you said it sounds as if the host has choice in the matter. Really the host is only flavor; the game runs algorithmically based on only the player's decision.

[silverspawn]

Yes, the key insight here is that it depends on whether the door revealed has been randomly chosen and could have also been the one with the car. If so it's 1/2 to 1/2; if not 1/3 to 2/3. Occasionally the question is posed without specifying this, in which case it does not have a correct solution, because information is missing.

If specified, it can be proven with Bayesian updating. But the 3 cases SP outlined are the easiest way of looking at it.

[Kuildeous]

Why do I keep reading this thing?

The 66% chance of winning if you switch doors is only half of the equation. The other half, which was pointed out by another commentator herein is: "what are the odds of winning, if you do not switch doors?" Your calculations have very elegantly shown us the answer to both questions. The odds of winning the car are as predicted, 50/50.

Basically it means that your odds of winning if you switch are 67% AND the odds of you winning if you DO NOT switch are 67%.

Switch / don't switch, your odds of winning are the same.

#nerdrage

[silverspawn]

It is deeply saddening if people present logically false things in this kind of tone.

[Kuildeous]

The thread has shown me new ways for people to misunderstand math. And I can understand people screwing up things. I'm not perfect in math either. But the unwillingness to examine one's concepts is rather disheartening.

I try to do my part. One guy in the 50-50 camp threw me for a loop when he insisted on differentiating between the two goats (and included a pig to mark the difference). He pointed out that there are six permutations of how the prizes are arranged. But then he says that the six outcomes become eight:
1a. car pig
1b. car goat
2a. car goat
2b. car pig
3. goat car
4. pig car
5. goat car
6. pig car

He did explain that options 1 and 2 are where the car was behind the first door, so each of those two permutations had two different outcomes depending on which door the host opened. And if you look at those eight, you could conclude that it's 50%. I had to point out that the probability of 1 and 2 are still the same, but now you have 1a at 1/12 and 1b at 1/12. It alarmed me because it made sense at first. But again, you reason through it and find the flaw. These people aren't willing to do that. They are sticking with the 1/2 conclusion and are crafting their arguments to fit it.

[silverspawn]

I think this problem in particular is so confusing that relatively few people will be able to really distinguish a true from a false explanation with intuition and logic alone. You can make false explanations seem really convincing.

But if you write down the probability space formally, define events, and use the rules of Bayes, there is no room left for disagreement.

[Kuildeous]

But if you write down the probability space formally, define events, and use the rules of Bayes, there is no room left for disagreement.

Except for people who don't know enough about math and will only go with their gut reaction that two doors mean 50%.

It took me a while to accept the math too. I felt like somebody did the math incorrectly, but eventually I had to accept it.

[silverspawn]

the best intuitive argument I think is looking at different cases. The problem with the way scott presented the cases is that you could argue ...

B. The prize is behind door B. The host eliminates door C, you switch to B and win.
C. The prize is behind door C. The host eliminates door B, you switch to C and win.

... that either case B or case C is impossible because we know now that the prize is not behind that door. So there are only 2 cases hence 1/2...

I'd explain it like so (this will also explain why how the door was revealed matters):
Case 1: The door you picked originally was the correct one. In that case, switching loses.
Case 2: The door you picked originally was not the correct one. In that case, switching wins.

This is always true, regardless of how the revealed door was chosen. Now all we need to know is the probability that the door you originally picked was the correct one.

If the moderator purposefully revealed a goat, then it is 1/3, because him revealing a goat tells you nothing about your original pick, because whether you pick the car or a goat, he can always reveal a goat. Again, Bayes.
If the moderator revealed at random, then it is no longer 1/3. It is not immediately obvious why it is 1/2, but it is logical that it has to be different.

Now if we assume he revealed a goat on purpose, then there remains a 1/3 chance that you picked right initially... and therefore a 2/3 chance that you are right if you switch.

But if someone presents you with a reason why it is 1/2 then you can't usually respond immediately because it takes some time to carefully think through every step and figure out where it goes wrong. And if the discussion is offline, then whelp.

[ashersky]

I get the math arguments, I think.  Thanks.

Part of my confusion stems from how the switch supposedly guarantees the win.  It seems it doesn’t, it just raises the possibility of winning by increasing the odds of the second door.

Here’s the other part.  Assume A is the car and I chose it.  The arguments so far say that because Monty removes C, it causes B to more likely be the car (than A).  But Monty had a 0/2 chance there to begin with, right?  It seems like he didn’t increase the chances of B becoming the car at all.

Why is B now more likely than A to be the car when we know it isn’t?

[ashersky]

The more I think about it, the more I’m convinced you are wrong.

Switching is only the right call 2/3* of the time, not 100%, because 1/3 of the time you chose right anyway.

*This number would change depending on the total number of doors**.  Taking the game to the absurd million door example, there’s still the 1 in a million time that you chose right to begin with, so switching is only the right call in 999,999 of out 1,000,000 times.

**I don’t know anything about math, so if there’s some sort of infinite numbers argument or something with space-time, I am not taking that into account.

At this point, I have still not been convinced by your posts that switching 100% is correct, as there are definitely situations (as pointed out by others) in which the original door was the correct choice.  Switching does increase your odds of winning more often than not, but it is by no means a guarantee, thereby disproving the theorem or whatever it is.

[silverspawn]

Part of my confusion stems from how the switch supposedly guarantees the win.  It seems it doesn’t

Yea, it definitely does not. No guarantees.

Here’s the other part.  Assume A is the car and I chose it.  The arguments so far say that because Monty removes C, it causes B to more likely be the car (than A).  But Monty had a 0/2 chance there to begin with, right?  It seems like he didn’t increase the chances of B becoming the car at all.

Why is B now more likely than A to be the car when we know it isn’t?

It isn't. If you presuppose that your original choice was correct, then just like you said, the probability of A is 100% before the reveal and 100% after the reveal.

The reveal only increases the probability of B if you don't already know where the car is.

[Awaclus]

Switching does increase your odds of winning more often than not

It increases your odds of winning every time. It doesn't matter whether or not the prize is actually behind that door because you don't know where it actually is, and you can't do math based on information that you don't have. What you know is that there's a 1/3 chance it's behind the door you chose and 2/3 chance it's behind the other one, and 2/3 is better than 1/3, so switching is better.

It doesn't guarantee winning though.

[silverspawn]

The more I think about it, the more I’m convinced you are wrong.

Switching is only the right call 2/3* of the time, not 100%, because 1/3 of the time you chose right anyway.

Yes, you're entirely correct. What someone who says "switching is 100% right" means it that "if you are in this situation, you should always switch because it is correct 2/3 (i.e. most) of the time." It's a confusing way of saying it, but it does not contradict what you think.

[ashersky]

Switching does increase your odds of winning more often than not

It increases your odds of winning every time. It doesn't matter whether or not the prize is actually behind that door because you don't know where it actually is, and you can't do math based on information that you don't have. What you know is that there's a 1/3 chance it's behind the door you chose and 2/3 chance it's behind the other one, and 2/3 is better than 1/3, so switching is better.

It doesn't guarantee winning though.

If your odds of winning go from 100% to 0%, that is a decrease, not an increase.
That happens 33% of the time.

Are those two correct statements in the context of the example? 

If so, it appears that your odds of winning do not increase 100% (every) of the time.  Hence my (possibly mistaken, but still unchanged) belief that switching is only correct X-1 of out X (most) times.

[ashersky]

The more I think about it, the more I’m convinced you are wrong.

Switching is only the right call 2/3* of the time, not 100%, because 1/3 of the time you chose right anyway.

Yes, you're entirely correct. What someone who says "switching is 100% right" means it that "if you are in this situation, you should 100% switch because it is correct 2/3 (i.e. most) of the time." It's a confusing way of saying it, but it does not contradict what you think.

If you were to say “you should definitely switch every time because you are more likely to win by switching because mathymath” then no one would be arguing, would they?  Seems pretty straightforward.

[silverspawn]

The more I think about it, the more I’m convinced you are wrong.

Switching is only the right call 2/3* of the time, not 100%, because 1/3 of the time you chose right anyway.

Yes, you're entirely correct. What someone who says "switching is 100% right" means it that "if you are in this situation, you should 100% switch because it is correct 2/3 (i.e. most) of the time." It's a confusing way of saying it, but it does not contradict what you think.

If you were to say “you should definitely switch every time because you are more likely to win by switching because mathymath” then no one would be arguing, would they?  Seems pretty straightforward.

Yes. You should say it that way.

[Awaclus]

If your odds of winning go from 100% to 0%, that is a decrease, not an increase.
That happens 33% of the time.

That doesn't happen. Your odds of winning aren't 100% until you've actually opened the door and learned that the prize was there. As long as you don't know where it is, your odds can't be greater than 2/3 and the way to have 2/3 is by switching.

[Watno]

If you were to say “you should definitely switch every time because you are more likely to win by switching because mathymath” then no one would be arguing, would they? 

They would.

[silverspawn]

If your odds of winning go from 100% to 0%, that is a decrease, not an increase.
That happens 33% of the time.

That doesn't happen. Your odds of winning aren't 100% until you've actually opened the door and learned that the prize was there. As long as you don't know where it is, your odds can't be greater than 2/3 and the way to have 2/3 is by switching.

Please don't have this discussion (at least not like this). It is just frequentism vs Bayesianism and it doesn't have anyhing to do with the Monty Hall Problem.

Frequentists say probabilities of things that are already decided (like "the car is behind door A") are either 100% or 0%. Bayesians say, no, probability is a way of expressing your subjective uncertainty, so it may first be 1/3 and then 2/3.

If we discuss this we should make it clear that we're arguing about Frequentism vs Bayesianism and not about Monty Hall.

[ashersky]

If you were to say “you should definitely switch every time because you are more likely to win by switching because mathymath” then no one would be arguing, would they? 

They would.

I guess you are right about that.

[ashersky]

It is just frequentism vs Bayesianism and it doesn't have anyhing to do with the Monty Hall Problem.

I know/knew nothing about any of this.  Super neat!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequentist_probability

Thanks for introducing some cool philosophy stuff.

[ashersky]

Also, to get back on random, when I copy/pasted that Wikipedia link, almost pasted an entire Role QT from my upcoming RMM.  That would have been unfortunate.

[ashersky]

Crap, sorry, still on my mind.

Can’t you just say “switching doubles your chances of winning because it’s like choosing two doors instead of one.”?

Each door has the same chance of winning.  You choose A.  C is eliminated.  Now, your choice can be visualized as either keeping A or taking B and C together, with one wrong door removed.  Switching is like choosing BOTH doors you didn’t choose (and Monty nicely removed the wrong one for you).

If you had the choice of one door or two doors at the beginning, you’d always take two, right?  That seems like a way to explain it with no confusing math or percentages.

[silverspawn]

It is just frequentism vs Bayesianism and it doesn't have anyhing to do with the Monty Hall Problem.

I know/knew nothing about any of this.  Super neat!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequentist_probability

Thanks for introducing some cool philosophy stuff.

Ok, now that we are clear on what the topic is, I don't want to make it sound like I'm neutral on this. I think probability is subjective uncertainty and the idea that it could be anything else immediately falls apart in any real life situation.

The basic idea of frequentism is fine – in an abstract experiment, probability is the limit of the relative frequency. No Bayesianian would dispute that. My subjective uncertainty of a die falling on 6 is 1/6 because that's the relative frequency of an abstract die roll and I can't distinuguish my die from an abstract die.

But some then say that you can't assign a probability to things that like "the car is behind door A" because it is either 100% or 0%... and that frustrates me to no end. In real life, EVERYTHING is already determined. if I let my computer randomiize a number, it is already determined because it's pseudo-randomness; I'd know in advance what the random number will be if I could look at the system state (or in case of RANDOM.org, look at the exact level of atmospheric noise, because that's how they generate their random numbers). And in the same way, nothing about me throwing a die is more random than the position of the car in MC. What the die will land on is already determined by phyics, I just don't know it. Because I'm ignorant... I have subjective uncertainty.

Probability is subjective uncertainty. Arguing that it's something different is idiotic.

[silverspawn]

Crap, sorry, still on my mind.

Can’t you just say “switching doubles your chances of winning because it’s like choosing two doors instead of one.”?

Each door has the same chance of winning.  You choose A.  C is eliminated.  Now, your choice can be visualized as either keeping A or taking B and C together, with one wrong door removed.  Switching is like choosing BOTH doors you didn’t choose (and Monty nicely removed the wrong one for you).

Yes, I think that is a great way of putting it! That's how I eventually looked at it too when I first encountered the problem.

[silverspawn]

I'm also working on my RMM... it's on the more complicated side... pretty excited to run it. I just hope it'll fill.

I don't know if it's actually simpler than Space Alert, but I think I can make it sound simpler 

[SpaceAnemone]

I'm also working on my RMM... it's on the more complicated side... pretty excited to run it. I just hope it'll fill.

I don't know if it's actually simpler than Space Alert, but I think I can make it sound simpler 

Space Alert lost another player today :-(

I think I need to re-balance it for fewer people, or give up on it altogether. You still willing to help with balance stuff?

[silverspawn]

I would.

... but I think you might want to try changing the OP rather than the setup. We have run games with this level of complexity before. Try to make it understandable for normal people

[Kuildeous]

Holy shit, guys. It actually happened. Some guy on the internet changed his mind.

I mean, it happens fairly often; there are actually many rational people on the internet, and they are capable of changing their mind when presented with facts. This guy wasn't one of them. He was stubborn as hell, and I eventually had to give up on him, but I argued with him far longer than any sane person should.

We gave him everything to convince him of the Monty Hall problem: Actual conditional probability equations, the million-door hyperbole, and a verifiable simulator that runs the puzzle 10k times. Someone even framed the hyperbole in an easier-to-grasp method: Suppose I ask you to guess the city I'm from, you guess Paris, and I tell you I'm either from Paris or some podunk town outside Boston. Is Paris going to be right 50% of the time? And they guy still said it was 50%!

I stopped being kind to him at that point. I wasn't overly mean, but I called his ability to rationalize into question. I gave up.

But he finally admitted that he was wrong and that it was about conditional probability, and he reversed his stance. I had to make sure I wasn't being trolled somehow. I was shocked.

[Seprix]

But he finally admitted that he was wrong and that it was about conditional probability, and he reversed his stance. I had to make sure I wasn't being trolled somehow. I was shocked.

What are the odds of that?

[silverspawn]

They definitely are either 93% or not 93%.

[Kuildeous]

So if Bob picks one of three doors and then is shown one door he didn't pick is a loser, he still has a 1/3 chance of winning the prize.

But when Carol walks in at this point, she's assigned to the other door, and she has a 1/2 chance of winning the prize.

I'm not even going to bring that up. That'll drive the deniers nuts. It even makes me feel uncomfortable.

[Awaclus]

So if Bob picks one of three doors and then is shown one door he didn't pick is a loser, he still has a 1/3 chance of winning the prize.

But when Carol walks in at this point, she's assigned to the other door, and she has a 1/2 chance of winning the prize.

I'm not even going to bring that up. That'll drive the deniers nuts. It even makes me feel uncomfortable.

Well, from Carol's perspective, Bob also has a 1/2 chance. From Bob's perspective, Carol has a 2/3 chance.

[scott_pilgrim]

It's sort of like a game of poker. If we each roll a die and cover it up and bet on whose die is higher (pretend we both lose in a tie), and I roll a 4 and you roll a 3, I will think I have a 1/2 chance of winning and you will think you have a 1/3 chance of winning. From a third person omniscient perspective, I have a 100% chance of winning. But that doesn't make either of our calculations wrong.

[Seprix]

How to break your computer

1. Go to Random Stuff Part III
2. Press All

[LaLight]

How to break your computer

1. Go to Random Stuff Part III
2. Press All

I did this with Homage...

[silverspawn]

So if Bob picks one of three doors and then is shown one door he didn't pick is a loser, he still has a 1/3 chance of winning the prize.

Only if the person revealing the door had the algorithm of "Always reveal a losing door after the first door was chosen".

But when Carol walks in at this point, she's assigned to the other door, and she has a 1/2 chance of winning the prize.

I'd say that's not true. Just because she walked in later doesn't mean she has to assume the door was randomly revealed.

What matterse is how the reveal was determined. If you don't know, you have to speculate, and then there is no clear probability.

[pingpongsam]

They definitely are either 93% or not 93%.

So, a 50% chance of being 93%?

[silverspawn]

They definitely are either 93% or not 93%.

So, a 50% chance of being 93%?

No, 50% is a stupid prior. Priors should be derived from simplicity (Occam's Razor) – 93% is a much more specific than not 93%, so 93% has a lower prior.

[Kirian]

"Stupid Prior" is the name of my Weird Al cover band.

[silverspawn]

"Stupid Prior" is the name of my Weird Al cover band.

I'd have given that a really low prior. Priors aren't everything.

[Kuildeous]

How to break your computer

1. Go to Random Stuff Part III
2. Press All

Probably time for a Random Stuff IV.

So if Bob picks one of three doors and then is shown one door he didn't pick is a loser, he still has a 1/3 chance of winning the prize.

Only if the person revealing the door had the algorithm of "Always reveal a losing door after the first door was chosen".

Which he does, per the Monty Hall puzzle.

But when Carol walks in at this point, she's assigned to the other door, and she has a 1/2 chance of winning the prize.

I'd say that's not true. Just because she walked in later doesn't mean she has to assume the door was randomly revealed.

She doesn't have to assume anything. Barring any other indication, she has a 50% shot. Now if she were told that Bob chose that door first and then had a reveal, then she has a new indication.

[scott_pilgrim]

But when Carol walks in at this point, she's assigned to the other door, and she has a 1/2 chance of winning the prize.

I'd say that's not true. Just because she walked in later doesn't mean she has to assume the door was randomly revealed.

She doesn't have to assume anything. Barring any other indication, she has a 50% shot. Now if she were told that Bob chose that door first and then had a reveal, then she has a new indication.

Your original statement makes it pretty ambiguous what information Carol has, but what the probability of winning is from her perspective is dependent entirely on what information she has. For example, if she just walks in the room with no knowledge of what's happening, and is told "you get whatever is behind that door", she definitely won't expect to have a 50% chance of winning a car, she probably doesn't even expect cars to be involved. If she is told "there is a car behind exactly one of these two doors, and you get to keep whatever is behind that one", then her complete lack of knowledge of anything else in the scenario gives her a 50% chance of winning, in the same way that if you gave me a true/false test in Korean, I would have a 50% chance at getting any particular question right. Any statement in a set of n mutually exclusive, collectively exhaustive statements that differ in name only has a 1/n chance of being true; here, Carol doesn't know anything about the two possibilities except that they are mutually exclusive and collectively exhaustive, so she assigns each a probability of 1/2.

But then if you continue explaining to her how this situation came to be, her probability goes back up to 2/3. So you seem to be making the assumption that she somehow knows that there is exactly one prize behind the two doors, but doesn't know how she got into that position. I think the apparent weirdness of her probability disagreeing with Bob's comes from the fact that it would be weird for her to have that exact amount of information in the first place.

[2.71828.....]

 random stuff part IV is #fakenews