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Author Topic: Is it too early to speculate on the Spring 2012 expansion?  (Read 33427 times)

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WanderingWinder

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Re: Is it too early to speculate on the Spring 2012 expansion?
« Reply #25 on: December 28, 2011, 11:31:26 am »
+1

Well, the Variants subforum tends to include outrageous things that Donald X (pardon me if I'm stepping on your design space) would probably never include - like the Leaders expansion, or the permanent Rule Change cards.  Whereas this would be about what, realistically, could possibly be included in another expansion.  I'm also trying to engage a discussion about the paradigm shifts, but I think that got shot down by nitpicking...
Well, variants includes that stuff, but it also includes normal cards. It's any cards whatsoever that aren't actually printed, plus any modified rules, etc.
Having said that, threads like this don't HAVE to degenerate into people posting their cards, variants, etc., but... they tend to do so.

Epoch

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Re: Is it too early to speculate on the Spring 2012 expansion?
« Reply #26 on: December 28, 2011, 01:19:29 pm »
0

How about an attack that scales down? It starts out as an awesome attack but diminishes as cards deplete or tokens are gained - like an anti pirate ship.

Mountebank is kind of like this, with the "discard a Curse" clause.  Ill Gotten Gains, of course, is very much a one-shot attack (even if it's technically not an attack).

Some kind of Ultra-Cutpurse for $5?  Discard 2 Coppers?
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GendoIkari

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Re: Is it too early to speculate on the Spring 2012 expansion?
« Reply #27 on: December 28, 2011, 01:39:36 pm »
0

Some kind of Ultra-Cutpurse for $5?  Discard 2 Coppers?

Insane advantage for a 5/2 player against a 4/3 player.
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jotheonah

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Re: Is it too early to speculate on the Spring 2012 expansion?
« Reply #28 on: December 28, 2011, 01:40:19 pm »
0

Another approach to trying to predict the next expansion would be to try to predict it thematically. Where do you go beyond the Hinterlands?
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GendoIkari

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Re: Is it too early to speculate on the Spring 2012 expansion?
« Reply #29 on: December 28, 2011, 01:42:08 pm »
0

Another approach to trying to predict the next expansion would be to try to predict it thematically. Where do you go beyond the Hinterlands?

At world's end? Followed by stranger tides?
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Copernicus

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Re: Is it too early to speculate on the Spring 2012 expansion?
« Reply #30 on: December 28, 2011, 02:12:01 pm »
+26

Another approach to trying to predict the next expansion would be to try to predict it thematically. Where do you go beyond the Hinterlands?

Permanence-
 * Permanent cards.  Probably unbalanced for Dominion, but basically a purchased card that is replayed every turn.
 * Rules-changers.  A "kingdom" that is only one card and changes the starting or ending rules or whatever.  Would easily work as filler for a small expansion, like the prizes.
 * Unemptying piles.  A card that, instead of being purchased and added to the deck, does something else when purchased. Could also not use a buy or give an additional buy.

Variables (cards that directly change in power based on game state)-
 * Like Peddler or Crossroads, cards that have different costs or effects depending on other things happening in the game.
 * Mini-kingdoms.  The first X cards in a stack do something, then the next X do something else.  For example, a kingdom where the first 5 cards are Village knockoffs while the next 5 are Smithy copies.
 * City knockoffs.
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Epoch

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Re: Is it too early to speculate on the Spring 2012 expansion?
« Reply #31 on: December 28, 2011, 02:26:58 pm »
0

Cards that give a disadvantage in play: an Action that gives -$2.  An Action that gives -1 Buy.  Actions that force you to discard.  Actions that make Coppers worth $0 when the Action is in play.  That kind of thing.  With, obviously, some kind of concomitant benefit that would otherwise be disproportionate to their cost.
 
(Not Actions that give Curses to you or any other -VP thing, for all the reasons that we've discussed at length).

Cards that interact heavily with the bottom of your draw pile, like maybe a Golem-like thing:  Reveal the bottom card from your Draw pile.  If the card is not an Action, discard it.  If it is an Action, put it into play.

Cards that interact with "bad" standard cards, like Copper, Estate, and Curse (a VP card that gives you 1 VP per 3 Curses in your deck.  A card that lets you discard any number of Estates for +1 Card, +$1 each.)

Not really trying to do specific balanced examples, just ideas for themes.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Is it too early to speculate on the Spring 2012 expansion?
« Reply #32 on: December 28, 2011, 02:30:17 pm »
0

Cards that give a disadvantage in play: an Action that gives -$2.  An Action that gives -1 Buy.  Actions that force you to discard.  Actions that make Coppers worth $0 when the Action is in play.  That kind of thing.  With, obviously, some kind of concomitant benefit that would otherwise be disproportionate to their cost.
 
(Not Actions that give Curses to you or any other -VP thing, for all the reasons that we've discussed at length).

Cards that interact heavily with the bottom of your draw pile, like maybe a Golem-like thing:  Reveal the bottom card from your Draw pile.  If the card is not an Action, discard it.  If it is an Action, put it into play.

Cards that interact with "bad" standard cards, like Copper, Estate, and Curse (a VP card that gives you 1 VP per 3 Curses in your deck.  A card that lets you discard any number of Estates for +1 Card, +$1 each.)

Not really trying to do specific balanced examples, just ideas for themes.

I like the idea of negative money on cards, but I don't think negative buy could ever work. They would be completely worthless on any boards without +buy (and probably overpowered on boards with +buy), and all cards are designed to work in any Kingdom.
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Epoch

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Re: Is it too early to speculate on the Spring 2012 expansion?
« Reply #33 on: December 28, 2011, 02:36:35 pm »
0

I like the idea of negative money on cards, but I don't think negative buy could ever work. They would be completely worthless on any boards without +buy (and probably overpowered on boards with +buy), and all cards are designed to work in any Kingdom.

Not necessarily.  "Gain a card costing $5 or less that is not a Victory Card.  -1 Buy."  Or whatever.

For that matter, one might argue that Chapel would not be much worse if it had -1 Buy on it.
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rod-

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Re: Is it too early to speculate on the Spring 2012 expansion?
« Reply #34 on: December 28, 2011, 02:44:01 pm »
0

Cards that interact heavily with the bottom of your draw pile

On-buy trigger on top of, say, a village, that just lets you re-arrange the bottom 5 cards of your deck, or just gives you an immediate pearl-diver effect...Would make me a very happy camper.  Or...something that when in play adds such an effect to every card you play.
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Epoch

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Re: Is it too early to speculate on the Spring 2012 expansion?
« Reply #35 on: December 28, 2011, 03:43:40 pm »
0

I've actually never played with a real-card Pearl Diver -- it seems like it might be kind of a physical pain in the neck.  If you move the card to the top of the deck, is it awkward to avoid exposing the penultimate card as well?
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LastFootnote

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Re: Is it too early to speculate on the Spring 2012 expansion?
« Reply #36 on: December 28, 2011, 03:54:05 pm »
0

I've actually never played with a real-card Pearl Diver -- it seems like it might be kind of a physical pain in the neck.  If you move the card to the top of the deck, is it awkward to avoid exposing the penultimate card as well?

No, just turn the deck face-down and move the card. Easy.
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Guy Srinivasan

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Re: Is it too early to speculate on the Spring 2012 expansion?
« Reply #37 on: December 28, 2011, 05:22:15 pm »
+1

I'm voting Conquering expansion. What do you do after Hinterlands? Take over. Finally you've found new lands, that aren't yours, but could be yours, and should be yours. Mechanical theme could be caring what cards are in your opponents' decks.
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Epoch

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Re: Is it too early to speculate on the Spring 2012 expansion?
« Reply #38 on: December 28, 2011, 05:27:33 pm »
0

Hmmm.  If we considered an ongoing problem in Dominion being that fast no-combo decks (BM + Smithy or Smithy variant, Doublejack, BM + Masq) are too good, I could see a Conquest theme allowing slower play.  A card like:

Raid
Action
All opponents reveal their hands.  Gain coin equal to the cost of the highest-value Victory card that is revealed.

(Or whatevs, not trying to balance).

Or other stuff that gives you an advantage based on your opponent having high-value green cards.  So it would encourage decks which set themselves up and knock out their end conditions very quickly, and discourage, "Oh, hey, I got $8 on turn 6, I'll get a Province...  and then another on turn 10, then turn 12, then turn 15."

A catch-up mechanic.  If you wanted something less swingy than what's described above, the Trade Route deal of the card getting better as more types of Victory card are bought works something like this.
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Guy Srinivasan

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Re: Is it too early to speculate on the Spring 2012 expansion?
« Reply #39 on: December 28, 2011, 06:10:50 pm »
0

Raid
Action
All opponents reveal their hands.  Gain coin equal to the cost of the highest-value Victory card that is revealed.
lol, I deleted my sample card from my post so it sounded less varianty, but it was:

Raider - Action, Attack
Each opponent reveals cards from the top of her deck until she reveals a Victory card, putting it back on top and discarding the other revealed cards. +Coin equal to half the cost of the highest-cost Victory card revealed this way, rounded up.
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werothegreat

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Re: Is it too early to speculate on the Spring 2012 expansion?
« Reply #40 on: December 28, 2011, 09:30:20 pm »
0

Raid
Action
All opponents reveal their hands.  Gain coin equal to the cost of the highest-value Victory card that is revealed.
lol, I deleted my sample card from my post so it sounded less varianty, but it was:

Raider - Action, Attack
Each opponent reveals cards from the top of her deck until she reveals a Victory card, putting it back on top and discarding the other revealed cards. +Coin equal to half the cost of the highest-cost Victory card revealed this way, rounded up.

Leave card-making in the Variants subforum.  Like thisisnotasmile said.  This thread was intended for discussing generalities, or what paradigm shift the expansion might bring, or even what color the box will be.  I'm hoping for red.
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Guy Srinivasan

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Re: Is it too early to speculate on the Spring 2012 expansion?
« Reply #41 on: December 29, 2011, 04:17:46 am »
0

Leave card-making in the Variants subforum.  Like thisisnotasmile said.  This thread was intended for discussing generalities, or what paradigm shift the expansion might bring, or even what color the box will be.  I'm hoping for red.
a) Sample cards are not for making new cards, they're for clarifying a theme, like saying "a bright angry color" and pointing at a stop sign.
b) I'm hoping for a dual-color box.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Is it too early to speculate on the Spring 2012 expansion?
« Reply #42 on: December 29, 2011, 05:05:17 am »
0

Maybe, we will get Treasure/Curse cards or Treasure/Victory Cards. For example, Cursed Gold -- Cost: $4 -2VP $3. I know this isn't supposed to have a custom card creation. But, maybe, the theme can be curses matter. Maybe, a horror theme. Maybe, there is a card that gives you bonuses for having curses.
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dondon151

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Re: Is it too early to speculate on the Spring 2012 expansion?
« Reply #43 on: December 29, 2011, 05:24:33 am »
0

I don't really think it's possible to speculate on the possibilities of new cards without conjecturing as to what those cards may be.
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rspeer

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Re: Is it too early to speculate on the Spring 2012 expansion?
« Reply #44 on: December 29, 2011, 06:31:27 am »
+1

If Donald X wanted there to be cards with type "Curse" that are not named "Curse", he would have left himself room to create them without creating major ambiguities. But he didn't, which tells me that such cards will never exist, because Donald X plans ahead.
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Re: Is it too early to speculate on the Spring 2012 expansion?
« Reply #45 on: December 29, 2011, 08:31:38 am »
+1

Maybe, we will get Treasure/Curse cards or Treasure/Victory Cards. For example, Cursed Gold -- Cost: $4 -2VP $3. I know this isn't supposed to have a custom card creation. But, maybe, the theme can be curses matter. Maybe, a horror theme. Maybe, there is a card that gives you bonuses for having curses.

Everyone has thought of something like this, usually calling it "Blood Money."  It's a phase we all go through, before realizing how ridiculously overpowered it would actually be.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Is it too early to speculate on the Spring 2012 expansion?
« Reply #46 on: December 29, 2011, 09:45:38 am »
0

I like the idea of negative money on cards, but I don't think negative buy could ever work. They would be completely worthless on any boards without +buy (and probably overpowered on boards with +buy), and all cards are designed to work in any Kingdom.

Not necessarily.  "Gain a card costing $5 or less that is not a Victory Card.  -1 Buy."  Or whatever.

For that matter, one might argue that Chapel would not be much worse if it had -1 Buy on it.

You're right. Also, Tactician would be worse on some boards, but just as good a lot of the time.
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mrdirt73

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Re: Is it too early to speculate on the Spring 2012 expansion?
« Reply #47 on: December 29, 2011, 12:03:17 pm »
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Leave card-making in the Variants subforum.  Like thisisnotasmile said.  This thread was intended for discussing generalities, or what paradigm shift the expansion might bring, or even what color the box will be.  I'm hoping for red.

If "conquer" is the theme, then the box should absolutely be red.
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Piemaster

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Re: Is it too early to speculate on the Spring 2012 expansion?
« Reply #48 on: December 30, 2011, 02:05:00 am »
0

Maybe, we will get Treasure/Curse cards or Treasure/Victory Cards. For example, Cursed Gold -- Cost: $4 -2VP $3. I know this isn't supposed to have a custom card creation. But, maybe, the theme can be curses matter. Maybe, a horror theme. Maybe, there is a card that gives you bonuses for having curses.

Everyone has thought of something like this, usually calling it "Blood Money."  It's a phase we all go through, before realizing how ridiculously overpowered it would actually be.

While giving bonuses for having curses might be difficult to balance, I think that an expansion loosely themed on curses (or just 'magic' in general) could be good as the mechanic is a bit one-dimensional and underutilised at the moment.  The expansion could include:

-  More ways to give curses
-  More ways to remove curses (important for balance)
-  Ways to punish people that have curses in their deck/hand
-  A new type of curse (hex?) that is more powerful, but also more difficult to give out and less spammable.
-  Ways to utilise curses n your deck to some end (as stated above, difficult to balance, it would have to be more about mitigating the negative consequences than giving 'bonuses' as such).
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: Is it too early to speculate on the Spring 2012 expansion?
« Reply #49 on: December 30, 2011, 05:53:11 am »
0

-  More ways to give curses

Every expansion to date has this

-  More ways to remove curses (important for balance)

i.e. More trashing. Every expansion to date has this

-  Ways to punish people that have curses in their deck/hand

Many people already hate the Cursing attacks because of how damaging there are. You really want to make them MORE painful?

-  A new type of curse (hex?) that is more powerful, but also more difficult to give out and less spammable.

Again, -1VP and deck/hand clogging is already damaging enough.

-  Ways to utilise curses n your deck to some end (as stated above, difficult to balance, it would have to be more about mitigating the negative consequences than giving 'bonuses' as such).

This is just trash/discard-for-benefit and it already exists in many forms.


An expansion like this would bring nothing new to the game apart from putting many people off because of the increased aggression.
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