Ok, here's my PPS reread. He has a lot of early interaction with me and pacovf (or at least talks about us a lot).
Good that I am not mafia, I don't really have the time to play scum right now.
Seriously? Vote: pacovf
Ok, I think pacovf's opening post is something you'd really only do as town.
No way. I see this is scum all the time. To wit, silverspawn's most recent Mafia world championship game he opened something similar and I immediately guessed him to be scum which is exactly how he turned out. The only thing I've seen scummiest this game is LaLight's unvote of Paco. Feeling pretty good about this read in light of that.
On mobile so responding to paco's multiquote post.
I agree you aren't silverspawn but I only referenced him because he's a recent example and mod of this game. This opener of hard claiming town comes more often than not from scum. So, if you are scum you are just like every scum who is or has been.
This is a kind of lame case on pacovf in response to me townreading him.
Argh.. really sorry for not being present today :-( I've had a big concert this evening, and it went amazingly, but I've just come home from the afterparty and it's too late to do thinking... though I'd have a chance to phonepost between the rehearsals and concert, but I was rushed off my feet. I'll definitely make time to do proper reading tomorrow :-)
Being at a concert... Sounds scummy to me!
This joke is scummy. Plus emoticon.
Oh, not you as well!! Silver seemed to take issue with my use of smilies right from my first game :-( For some of us, they're just useful forms of written communication, and they don't mean anything at all about our scumminess or lack thereof!
Scum always says that.
This is PPS's first interaction with SA. So far he's cast suspicion on pacovf and SA without providing any real cases. This isn't particularly helpful.
Today, I hold the idea we will actually hit scum very loosely and look for the most informative flip which is still pretty loose as well, it's D1 after all. I've got no strong town reads and no strong scum reads. Being a newbie game I suppose it's possible the Paco/LaLight pair have shown their hand that easily but it's a stretch. Paco omgusing me doesn't really sway me off the idea.
Proposes a paco/LL pair. Scum points to Paco for that. One on and one off is a common scum tactic.
Note: 5 out of 8 players have expressed an interest in lynching me, so it's kinda hard for me to vote for someone without OMGUSing them...
fair point, here.
The rest is solid response, I like it. I don't agree with it too much seeing as I know my own alignment to be contrary to your implications but I can't really fault your line of reasoning, either. I'll be the first to admit that I suffer greatly from reading those who implicate me as town as being town themselves. I was trying to avoid this with ash and even considered voting him over it because he knows this about me. I am actually pretty impressed you highlighted buddying behavior of mine when I would have thought I had successfully avoided it.
Very hedgy here. Seems like he's trying too hard to respond to Pacovf's vote on him without furthering the suspicion on pacovf. More scum points to pacovf.
I don't like the corralling thing you mention, though... isn't the whole point of D1 was to get people talking and into the game? Otherwise, why would it be so long. We have zero information to go on, so we have to make people talk to each other.
Yeah, we need to talk and all but the real deal is the day ends and it would be really dumb to go no lynch so face the facts; at some point we have to agree on a lynch. If it's going to be a mislynch usually scum is doing the corralling so scum would be uncomfortable with that notion being brought out so explicitly. Expect a scum lynch to be fairly hard to come by since they are very unlikely to help in that. Quite positive paco is town just because the wagon went way too quickly to L-1. I suppose there could be some early bussing that got out of hand (so LaLight is a prime suspect, there) or it just happened like that and somebody got scared of being on the tail end of it and forcing it through (oh, look, LaLight is the bad guy, again).
I believe this is in response to SA by the way. Obviously at this point this case for pacovf being town is totally bogus, implying that he could only be scum if his partner bussed. Well, his partner would have to be PPS, who didn't bus, so this totally could have been a wagon on scum. So, bogus defense of pacovf = scum points to pacovf.
Also note that in a game with only two scum, they really really can't afford to lose one D1. So PPS's defense here isn't out of the question for scum to do. On the flip side, PPS had barely interacted with SA at all at this point, which is totally possible because SA didn't have much suspicion D1. So this leans towards pacovf but no one has been implicated yet.
What are these facts?For example?
P.S. Specially for newbie
I'm not sure I follow. The fact I was referring to was the one about the day will end and if we don't lynch somebody we will just start D2 with one of us dead and maybe some worthwhile night action results if we are lucky but more likely we will be in no better position than now. I brought this up because the inevitability of avoiding the above situation is getting a lynch vote in. SA said they didn't like the notion of corralling votes but that is exactly what will have to happen.
Coaching of SA here? Ehhh, I can see it but it's not really likely.
vote: McGarnacle
I disapprove. Especially in a newbie game.
The question is, do you think what he did was scummy? Do you even know what he did?
No. Yes. I hope the reason I disapprove is obvious enough, if not, I will spell it out in due time.
I am trying to figure out if it was a scummy thing to do. McGarnacle was already L-1 so town!JReg wasn't forcing a claim unless he was hoping scum!McG would out himself in "twilight". I don't see a scum motivation for it at all. So, pretty null on it. When you say no do you mean null or town?
Here's an interaction. I really can't get much from this. Like, if they are partners they're doing a good job of having interactions that don't seem forced, but they're both experienced so I wouldn't be surprised. Meh, I was hoping for more from this interaction but it's pretty null.
PPS had a lot to say about the whole rolecop thing but it's an interaction with Ash so there's not much to take from it. I guess what I can learn is that I thought ash was scum based on his interactions with PPS but I was wrong, so I have to rethink my analysis of those kinds of interactions for this case. Good to know.
In fact, looking at the McGarnacle wagon I see my prime suspect LaLight and then RR both move their vote directly to me once they forced a claim out of a townie. The only other voters were SA and JR (who are the only ones I think appear to actually maybe be town around here).
I'll go with my D1 meta and call a scum team of RR/LaLight. My vote stands.
Says SA is probably town. This comes after very little interaction between the two. What I have to deduce is: does PPS prefer to fake a lot of interactions with his partner or have almost none and hope no one notices?
Later in reads list, he says SA is maybe town and pacovf is null. Okay.
Well, right off the bat I see I'm mixing up RR and JR. No, RR is a top scum read for me. There is early partnering behavior between him and LaLight. Feeling much better about the way this is shaping up already. Still a whole bunch of reread to do but for now Unvote.
This big post is mostly for me to work things out and show my work, but I want to take a second to note this points to me being town. Why would PPS mix up his partner with his top faked scum read? Like that seems way too dangerous and unproductive.
Big town read on Paco (despite him leading the charge on me). He's playing entirely too forthright to be scum. If he's scum he is super good at it. I mean, I think he's also being super good at town.
...
SA and Ziggy are both cryptic to me in wholly different ways. SA is participatory and lucid and being a newbie with this much material posted I think scum!SA would have shown their hand somewhere and I haven't seen it. Ziggy, well, there's the language thing which I think is cutting both ways. He is entirely too cryptic for me to read one way or the other. Big fat null on him. If he is scum he certainly isn't controlling the game.
"If he's scum he's super good at it" scum points to paco. Still townreading SA without giving much of a reason. So uhhh
You pressured me?
Yes, I feel i was instrumental in your early wagon. At the very least this is what I was referring to.
Both RR and you feel a bit off from your usual playstyle. Of course once you point that out it becomes a huge meta ball, but still. I prefer you slightly over RR because you are a bit scarier,
RR feels off because he is scum and he's not terribly good at it. RR is obvtown when he's town. Me, i don't realyl have a usual play style. if anything, I'd say I am far easier top spot as scum than as town. As town I feel safer playing loose and attracting attention because if I go down there's good interaction around me to analyze. I think we've only played one game together before and I seem to recall being scum that game? If that is the case then me seeming off would because I'm not scum now.
because trying to defuse the fake hammer doesn't look good (especially when you say it's ok because it created interactions or whatever),
The fake hammer thing was going to get some one in hot water regardless. What I mewan is there was no probability of snaring scum but 10-0% probability someone was going to get a wagon on them just for looking at it. At the time I was simply trying to understand the purpose behind it to determine if JR was scum for doing it. I'm not entirely sure I've seen a fake hammer in any of my games before so i was processing the import of it in real time. Had I know what they represent prior tot hat point I would have probably stayed entirely silent. Anyhow, i stand by the fact that we now have a wagon on me because of it so clearly it created valuable interaction. Unfortunately one fo my biggest town reads ran with that so if I die over it isn't likely to bring suspicion on any scum.
and because lynching lurkers D1 is a double edged sword. It's not a super huge preference mind you.
I'm not seeing Zigaton as a lurker (but I'm calibrated by the likes of chairs and that other guy who posts so little I can't even remember his name)
I prefer either of you to Lalight because he's a newbie, which is always harder to predict.
At least you are honest about wanting to lynch out the vets first which is ironic considering you are one of them moreso than several others.
Big response to pacovf. First of all I think PPS is lying/mistaken about leading the charge on pacovf. From my point of view he defended him. A lot of this post is just PPS defending himself. I do find it interesting that he was so against lynching vets first. This would make a lot of sense if both scum were vets.
That's basically it for D1. I'm going to post this now so I don't lose it, but I'm already leaning toward pacovf. There's a lot to go though.