I am very happy to see that Haddock was targeted in the example provided.
Are experienced players desirable in this game or strictly newbs?
/in
This looks fun, but I feel I'll have to ask a lot of questions as we go along :).
How do you keep non-scum from seeing who the mafia vote to lynch during their night phase?
How do you keep non-scum from seeing who the mafia vote to lynch during their night phase?
QT's are used.
Mafia has their own QT where they can talk only during the night.
Example: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/jYYeD6SThMvL
(You know there's an off-by-one error between the text and image, right?)
/Comod?
Since I'm already being guinea-pigged. :P
I mostly just wanted the spoilers :P/Comod?
Since I'm already being guinea-pigged. :P
thanks, but ... not really necessary, to be honest. don't want you to go through the effort of doing vote counts by hand when I've already automated it.
but you can play if you want.
Example:
If 12 is randomized, the roles at 11 (Vanilla Cop), 12 (Follower), and 1 (Roleblocker) are being chosen.
(not to mention that SA and I should probably avoid being in the same game).
This bit might want to be changed to: [snip]
well, guys. Some veterans can participate here: the most impotrtant thing is that roles are good for newbies, mod will be friendly and will tell everything in details and that's all. Who will participate will not matter so hard I think we just have to made sure there is not like 1-2 newbies but at least half.
This bit might want to be changed to: [snip]
Ah, yes. Thanks again.well, guys. Some veterans can participate here: the most impotrtant thing is that roles are good for newbies, mod will be friendly and will tell everything in details and that's all. Who will participate will not matter so hard I think we just have to made sure there is not like 1-2 newbies but at least half.
yeah, it'd be nice to have some more completely new players. . .
/in
How many newbies are around?currently 1,5
/in
Nice that we get some new players! Have you checked out the Forum Games? (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?board=26.0)
Why is ash playing newbie mafia?/in
Nice that we get some new players! Have you checked out the Forum Games? (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?board=26.0)
I did! That's how I found this thread.
Why is ash playing newbie mafia?/in
Nice that we get some new players! Have you checked out the Forum Games? (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?board=26.0)
I did! That's how I found this thread.
This is all fine, but thinking about odds when you and Ash are scums...
This is all fine, but thinking about odds when you and Ash are scums...
Maybe ss would reroll the setup if that happened.
This is all fine, but thinking about odds when you and Ash are scums...
Maybe ss would reroll the setup if that happened.
:P
I think, if we have at least one vet among town, that's actually winnable. new players tend to overpowered as town and underpowered as scum because they're worse at hiding.
This is all fine, but thinking about odds when you and Ash are scums...
Maybe ss would reroll the setup if that happened.
???
That would be a betrayal of my supposed integrity and a strain on the purity of chance. I would absolutely not re-roll.
This is all fine, but thinking about odds when you and Ash are scums...
Maybe ss would reroll the setup if that happened.
???
That would be a betrayal of my supposed integrity and a strain on the purity of chance. I would absolutely not re-roll.
Sorry, that was meant as a joke. I should have added a smiley to make that clear.
I've actually never ever been a mafia. So everyone just keep that in consideration.
/in
I could /in, if you are fine with me not super committing to the game the way I usually do (although ash and pps being in here should more than balance it out)
Been a while since I've been in a game. Can the newbies tell us how newbie they are?
Good that I am not mafia, I don't really have the time to play scum right now.
Oh and vote: Ashersky. 89% serious vote
No need to thank me for trying to shorten RVS (random voting stage)
Good that I am not mafia, I don't really have the time to play scum right now.
Been a while since I've been in a game. Can the newbies tell us how newbie they are?
Good that I am not mafia, I don't really have the time to play scum right now.
Oh and vote: Ashersky. 89% serious vote
No need to thank me for trying to shorten RVS (random voting stage)
vote: pacovf
Don't lynch me.
I'm kind of creeped out by the flavor TBH.
Been a while since I've been in a game. Can the newbies tell us how newbie they are?
Good that I am not mafia, I don't really have the time to play scum right now.
Oh and vote: Ashersky. 89% serious vote
No need to thank me for trying to shorten RVS (random voting stage)
vote: pacovf
Don't lynch me.
Why shouldn't I lynch you?
Vote Count 1.1
ashersky (1): pacovf
J Reggie (1): Roadrunner7671
pacovf (3): J Reggie, pingpongsam, LaLight
Not Voting (4): McGarnacle, Zigaton, ashersky, SpaceAnemone
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Sep 25, 22:00 forum time. That is in 9 days and 18+ hours.
Been a while since I've been in a game. Can the newbies tell us how newbie they are?
Good that I am not mafia, I don't really have the time to play scum right now.
Oh and vote: Ashersky. 89% serious vote
No need to thank me for trying to shorten RVS (random voting stage)
Guys,
He's at L-1. Don't kill him without his last word.
unvote just in case
Newbie here, looking forward to my first game. Also planning on MVP.
Gigantic note to everyone: if you are a VT, don't claim a power role to try to stay alive. That is a horrible thing to do, as it may very well prompt a real power role to counter and then they are outed.
Power roles -- you know the entire setup, sort of. Like, if you are a Tracker (#8), you know the setup has to be 6/7/8, 7/8/9, or 8/9/10, and nothing else. That means if someone claims anything from 1 to 5 or 11 to 12, they are lying. Only you can decide if it is worth counter claiming that person, but you should be sure that person is lying scum.
This goes back to the gigantic note -- if you lie as a VT, you mess up the power role information thing.
So really, no claiming roles unless it is for realz.
Okey, he is too aggressive. Vote: pacovf . Just do it.We're going to want to spent at least 5 days before lynching someone
Guys,
He's at L-1. Don't kill him without his last word.
unvote just in case
Seems like Paco's partner.
Guys,
He's at L-1. Don't kill him without his last word.
unvote just in case
Seems like Paco's partner.
Guys,
He's at L-1. Don't kill him without his last word.
unvote just in case
Seems like Paco's partner.
Seems like LaLight, though.
Been a while since I've been in a game. Can the newbies tell us how newbie they are?
Been a while since I've been in a game. Can the newbies tell us how newbie they are?
This seems like a useful question that everyone's ignoring because of the whole wagon thing.
This is my 4th game, but I died in N1 of my first one, so I'm kind of not counting that. I'm a friend of Haddock's IRL, so the times when it sounds like I understand things may correspond quite well to the times when he's online and answering questions on FB :-P
Newbie here, looking forward to my first game. Also planning on MVP.
Gigantic note to everyone: if you are a VT, don't claim a power role to try to stay alive. That is a horrible thing to do, as it may very well prompt a real power role to counter and then they are outed.
Power roles -- you know the entire setup, sort of. Like, if you are a Tracker (#8), you know the setup has to be 6/7/8, 7/8/9, or 8/9/10, and nothing else. That means if someone claims anything from 1 to 5 or 11 to 12, they are lying. Only you can decide if it is worth counter claiming that person, but you should be sure that person is lying scum.
This goes back to the gigantic note -- if you lie as a VT, you mess up the power role information thing.
So really, no claiming roles unless it is for realz.
I'd add, that your goal is not staying alive, but town-win.
Newbie here, looking forward to my first game. Also planning on MVP.
Gigantic note to everyone: if you are a VT, don't claim a power role to try to stay alive. That is a horrible thing to do, as it may very well prompt a real power role to counter and then they are outed.
Power roles -- you know the entire setup, sort of. Like, if you are a Tracker (#8), you know the setup has to be 6/7/8, 7/8/9, or 8/9/10, and nothing else. That means if someone claims anything from 1 to 5 or 11 to 12, they are lying. Only you can decide if it is worth counter claiming that person, but you should be sure that person is lying scum.
This goes back to the gigantic note -- if you lie as a VT, you mess up the power role information thing.
So really, no claiming roles unless it is for realz.
I'd add, that your goal is not staying alive, but town-win.
Yowch.. I feel like this is targeted at me :-/ I'm trying to get better!
All my previous mafia-like experience was a variant of IRL werewolf where the victory condition for any player also involved being alive at the end... this experience didn't serve me well in BSG mafia :-(
Will you explain 89% thing?
Okey, he is too aggressive. Vote: pacovf . Just do it.
Ok, I think pacovf's opening post is something you'd really only do as town. I don't think I've read that many of his games though, and I've never played with him so IDK. Anyway, vote: ash for being new.
I'm awake! How did I miss so much that there's been a vote count already?
Vote: McGarnacle for being the only person here sleepier than I am :-P
Ok, I think pacovf's opening post is something you'd really only do as town. I don't think I've read that many of his games though, and I've never played with him so IDK. Anyway, vote: ash for being new.
Paco is old school -- famed for his ruthlessness.
So what happened to Slampp RZJ? I'm a bit confused by the flavor text. Is he dead?
Vote: Roadrunner 7671
Someone said is he and ash are scum, we loose, so if we kill one of them right away, that should help.
As for the question on how new the newbies are: This is my first game of forum mafia, and my fourth game of mafia in general. I've never been scum.
So what happened to Slampp RZJ? I'm a bit confused by the flavor text. Is he dead?
Vote: Roadrunner 7671
Someone said is he and ash are scum, we loose, so if we kill one of them right away, that should help.
As for the question on how new the newbies are: This is my first game of forum mafia, and my fourth game of mafia in general. I've never been scum.
Until now?
So what happened to Slampp RZJ? I'm a bit confused by the flavor text. Is he dead?
Vote: Roadrunner 7671
Someone said is he and ash are scum, we loose, so if we kill one of them right away, that should help.
As for the question on how new the newbies are: This is my first game of forum mafia, and my fourth game of mafia in general. I've never been scum.
Until now?
Actually, no. Having never been scum doesn't statistically decrease my chances of being mafia, but it does mean that I'm even more inexperienced in that role than I am of any mafia role in general.
So what happened to Slampp RZJ? I'm a bit confused by the flavor text. Is he dead?
Vote: Roadrunner 7671
Someone said is he and ash are scum, we loose, so if we kill one of them right away, that should help.
As for the question on how new the newbies are: This is my first game of forum mafia, and my fourth game of mafia in general. I've never been scum.
Ok, I think pacovf's opening post is something you'd really only do as town. I don't think I've read that many of his games though, and I've never played with him so IDK. Anyway, vote: ash for being new.
Paco is old school -- famed for his ruthlessness.
Coming from you, I take this as high praise :)
Off-topic: you've been interacting with Spanish people lately, eh?
So what happened to Slampp RZJ? I'm a bit confused by the flavor text. Is he dead?
Vote: Roadrunner 7671
Someone said is he and ash are scum, we loose, so if we kill one of them right away, that should help.
As for the question on how new the newbies are: This is my first game of forum mafia, and my fourth game of mafia in general. I've never been scum.
Not me and RR, me and PPS.
So what happened to Slampp RZJ? I'm a bit confused by the flavor text. Is he dead?
Vote: Roadrunner 7671
Someone said is he and ash are scum, we loose, so if we kill one of them right away, that should help.
As for the question on how new the newbies are: This is my first game of forum mafia, and my fourth game of mafia in general. I've never been scum.
Not me and RR, me and PPS.
So you're saying we should lynch you?
Ok, I think pacovf's opening post is something you'd really only do as town.
The only thing I've seen scummiest this game is LaLight's unvote of Paco. Feeling pretty good about this read in light of that.
Ok, I think pacovf's opening post is something you'd really only do as town.
No way. I see this is scum all the time. To wit, silverspawn's most recent Mafia world championship game he opened something similar and I immediately guessed him to be scum which is exactly how he turned out. The only thing I've seen scummiest this game is LaLight's unvote of Paco. Feeling pretty good about this read in light of that.
So what happened to Slampp RZJ? I'm a bit confused by the flavor text. Is he dead?
Ok, I think pacovf's opening post is something you'd really only do as town.
No way. I see this is scum all the time. To wit, silverspawn's most recent Mafia world championship game he opened something similar and I immediately guessed him to be scum which is exactly how he turned out. The only thing I've seen scummiest this game is LaLight's unvote of Paco. Feeling pretty good about this read in light of that.
The only thing I've seen scummiest this game is LaLight's unvote of Paco. Feeling pretty good about this read in light of that.
Yeah, but it's LaLight! He's being exactly like he usually is and posting helpful stuff.
(Though I'm a bit disturbed that he's no longer a friendly pink square).
Seprix made me a stylish Gladiator avatar.
Btw Pink Square is from 12 oz. Mouse cartoon and he's not very friendly there =)
Seprix made me a stylish Gladiator avatar.
Hehe.. I don't think I get his aesthetic. I think of you as pink now, and the original version of that card has quite a pink person on it.. so that kind of fits, but why make it all dark and shadowy?Btw Pink Square is from 12 oz. Mouse cartoon and he's not very friendly there =)
Ah! I'd never heard of that before now. I like rodents, though :-) My icon is from Babylon 5, but I don't know how many people here are actually old enough to think that was a good show...
We're getting fluffy =))
Does this roughly sum up our experience levels?
Total newbies: McGarnacle & Zigatron
Mostly newbies: LaLight & SA
Quite experienced: RR, JReggie, Paco
Scary: Ash & PPS
I've never played with or read anything with Paco, Ash or PPS before. The other not-total-newbies I've encountered at least a little bit. I think RR's been in all my games so far, but I have very little confidence in my ability to read him.
Also, for people I'm new to, please not that I'm not male, and that I use "they/them" as a pronoun. Thanks :-)
We're getting fluffy =))
Yeah, but that's only because I was saving the useful stuff for a separate post so that it makes things easier to go back to later!
Besides, all that "no fluff" thing is culture that we don't have to have learned yet because it's a newbie game :-) I happen to disagree quite strongly with the idea that a little bit of non-aggressive human interaction is going to harm the game, because getting to know people's personalities and likes/dislikes is going to make them easier to read in the longer term.
No way. I see this is scum all the time. To wit, silverspawn's most recent Mafia world championship game he opened something similar and I immediately guessed him to be scum which is exactly how he turned out.
PPS speaks the truths.
Okey, he is too aggressive. Vote: pacovf . Just do it.
How am I too aggressive?
We're getting fluffy =))
Yeah, but that's only because I was saving the useful stuff for a separate post so that it makes things easier to go back to later!
Besides, all that "no fluff" thing is culture that we don't have to have learned yet because it's a newbie game :-) I happen to disagree quite strongly with the idea that a little bit of non-aggressive human interaction is going to harm the game, because getting to know people's personalities and likes/dislikes is going to make them easier to read in the longer term.
Does this roughly sum up our experience levels?
Total newbies: McGarnacle & Zigatron
Mostly newbies: LaLight & SA
Quite experienced: RR, JReggie, Paco
Scary: Ash & PPS
I've never played with or read anything with Paco, Ash or PPS before. The other not-total-newbies I've encountered at least a little bit. I think RR's been in all my games so far, but I have very little confidence in my ability to read him.
Also, for people I'm new to, please not that I'm not male, and that I use "they/them" as a pronoun. Thanks :-)
Well this is actually only my 5th game, and I haven't played in a while, so I don't know if I qualify for "quite experienced" yet.
Oh hum J Reggie, have you played any game here? Something I can skim?We're getting fluffy =))
Yeah, but that's only because I was saving the useful stuff for a separate post so that it makes things easier to go back to later!
Besides, all that "no fluff" thing is culture that we don't have to have learned yet because it's a newbie game :-) I happen to disagree quite strongly with the idea that a little bit of non-aggressive human interaction is going to harm the game, because getting to know people's personalities and likes/dislikes is going to make them easier to read in the longer term.
Getting a townread on SA.No way. I see this is scum all the time. To wit, silverspawn's most recent Mafia world championship game he opened something similar and I immediately guessed him to be scum which is exactly how he turned out.
Well, silverspawn and I are different people, I think? Otherwise I wouldn't be able to play this game. Because I would also be modding it. And I would know everybody's alignment. And that would be cheating.PPS speaks the truths.
Yet you aren't voting for me. Why?
Oh and still very interested in getting an answer to this:Okey, he is too aggressive. Vote: pacovf . Just do it.
How am I too aggressive?
Oh hum J Reggie, have you played any game here? Something I can skim?
We're getting fluffy =))
Yeah, but that's only because I was saving the useful stuff for a separate post so that it makes things easier to go back to later!
Besides, all that "no fluff" thing is culture that we don't have to have learned yet because it's a newbie game :-) I happen to disagree quite strongly with the idea that a little bit of non-aggressive human interaction is going to harm the game, because getting to know people's personalities and likes/dislikes is going to make them easier to read in the longer term.
Don't worry)This is test for u.Nobody can't find mafia in first night)unvote
vote: LaLight
vote: LaLight
Omg. vote: Ash
Don't uou like me being useful?
vote: LaLight
vote: LaLight
Yeah, mr. A little too helpful Vote: LaLight
vote: LaLight
Yeah, mr. A little too helpful Vote: LaLight
I see. You didn't play with me before. Lynch me, i'll flip vt and in future you'll know that I just try to help people enter the game correctly.
vote: LaLight
Yeah, mr. A little too helpful Vote: LaLight
I see. You didn't play with me before. Lynch me, i'll flip vt and in future you'll know that I just try to help people enter the game correctly.
Earlier than required VT claim -- scummy.
vote: LaLight
Yeah, mr. A little too helpful Vote: LaLight
I see. You didn't play with me before. Lynch me, i'll flip vt and in future you'll know that I just try to help people enter the game correctly.
Earlier than required VT claim -- scummy.
Vote: Pacovf btw. I still don't like his OP (that's Opening Post)
Vote: Pacovf btw. I still don't like his OP (that's Opening Post)
Curious here, what is it that you don't like in my OP?
vote: RR
for reasons stated previously, newb scum isn't as dangerous and vet scum.
vote: RRSo you're saying we should lynch all the vets the first three days or so then see what happens?
for reasons stated previously, newb scum isn't as dangerous and vet scum.
I don't know about LaLight here. I don't want to lynch him today but I do want to keep an eye on him
vote: RRSo you're saying we should lynch all the vets the first three days or so then see what happens?
for reasons stated previously, newb scum isn't as dangerous and vet scum.
Now I feel like I'm just targeting you but wanting someone to die is a good thing. There's a chance we'll kill scum and we can analyze how everyone interacted with the dead person once we all know their alignmentI don't know about LaLight here. I don't want to lynch him today but I do want to keep an eye on him
Actually, unvote: RRI think Roadrunner is not scum. His last post sounds un-scummy to me.
vote: Pingpongsam for going after LaLight early. I think he wants someone to die.
Now I feel like I'm just targeting you but wanting someone to die is a good thing. There's a chance we'll kill scum and we can analyze how everyone interacted with the dead person once we all know their alignmentI don't know about LaLight here. I don't want to lynch him today but I do want to keep an eye on him
Actually, unvote: RRI think Roadrunner is not scum. His last post sounds un-scummy to me.
vote: Pingpongsam for going after LaLight early. I think he wants someone to die.
Argh.. really sorry for not being present today :-( I've had a big concert this evening, and it went amazingly, but I've just come home from the afterparty and it's too late to do thinking... though I'd have a chance to phonepost between the rehearsals and concert, but I was rushed off my feet. I'll definitely make time to do proper reading tomorrow :-)
Could vote for McGargle.
Could vote for McGargle.
Uh, its McGarnacle.
Could vote for McGargle.
Uh, its McGarnacle.
But he could vote for McGargle
Could vote for McGargle.
Could vote for McGargle.
Why do you not want to lynch him today? Who do you want to lynch today?
I see. So you would rather lynch a vet today, is what you are saying?I have no idea how you got that from what I said
Ah, sorry, I don't mean to misconstrue your post.
You said that you didn't want to lynch Lalight today, and you explained that it's because he's a newbie, and newbies get more and more obvious as the game goes on. This reasoning can be applied to all newbies, so that means you would prefer to lynch a vet today. Unless you didn't really mean that you don't want to lynch Lalight today.
Argh.. really sorry for not being present today :-( I've had a big concert this evening, and it went amazingly, but I've just come home from the afterparty and it's too late to do thinking... though I'd have a chance to phonepost between the rehearsals and concert, but I was rushed off my feet. I'll definitely make time to do proper reading tomorrow :-)
Being at a concert... Sounds scummy to me! :)
This joke is scummy. Plus emoticon.
Lol.You're wrong,dude.I voted for you to see your reaction.I think it is too early to draw any conclusions.This joke is scummy. Plus emoticon.
Not superstrong, but I guess no D1 case ever is...
In the mean time, vote: Zigaton. Only posted twice, and both posts raised red flags for me.
Lol.You're wrong,dude.I voted for you to see your reaction.I think it is too early to draw any conclusions.This joke is scummy. Plus emoticon.
Not superstrong, but I guess no D1 case ever is...
In the mean time, vote: Zigaton. Only posted twice, and both posts raised red flags for me.
Lol.You're wrong,dude.I voted for you to see your reaction.I think it is too early to draw any conclusions.This joke is scummy. Plus emoticon.
Not superstrong, but I guess no D1 case ever is...
In the mean time, vote: Zigaton. Only posted twice, and both posts raised red flags for me.
Argh.. really sorry for not being present today :-( I've had a big concert this evening, and it went amazingly, but I've just come home from the afterparty and it's too late to do thinking... though I'd have a chance to phonepost between the rehearsals and concert, but I was rushed off my feet. I'll definitely make time to do proper reading tomorrow :-)
Being at a concert... Sounds scummy to me! :)
This joke is scummy. Plus emoticon.
Argh.. really sorry for not being present today :-( I've had a big concert this evening, and it went amazingly, but I've just come home from the afterparty and it's too late to do thinking... though I'd have a chance to phonepost between the rehearsals and concert, but I was rushed off my feet. I'll definitely make time to do proper reading tomorrow :-)
Being at a concert... Sounds scummy to me! :)
This joke is scummy. Plus emoticon.
Oh, not you as well!! Silver seemed to take issue with my use of smilies right from my first game :-( For some of us, they're just useful forms of written communication, and they don't mean anything at all about our scumminess or lack thereof!
Lol.You're wrong,dude.I voted for you to see your reaction.I think it is too early to draw any conclusions.This joke is scummy. Plus emoticon.
Not superstrong, but I guess no D1 case ever is...
In the mean time, vote: Zigaton. Only posted twice, and both posts raised red flags for me.
Argh.. really sorry for not being present today :-( I've had a big concert this evening, and it went amazingly, but I've just come home from the afterparty and it's too late to do thinking... though I'd have a chance to phonepost between the rehearsals and concert, but I was rushed off my feet. I'll definitely make time to do proper reading tomorrow :-)
Being at a concert... Sounds scummy to me! :)
This joke is scummy. Plus emoticon.
That's a scummy reaction. McGarnle reminds me of myself in my first scum game
I don't care about you throwing a few emojis around. I do care about you sending a ton of emojis when people tell you it's scummyThat's a scummy reaction. McGarnle reminds me of myself in my first scum game
What??? Next time I play mafia I'll know to not post emoticons- only mafia use emoticons, apparently.
Would lynch: lalight, paco, mcgarg, zig
Might lynch: Space, RR, J Reg
Rather not lynch: PPS
The difference between would and might is not a lot.
Basically I have one town read. That's...not great.
Would lynch: lalight, paco, mcgarg, zig
Might lynch: Space, RR, J Reg
Rather not lynch: PPS
The difference between would and might is not a lot.
Basically I have one town read. That's...not great.
Sorry, but can you please spell McGarnacle correctly? =)
Would lynch: lalight, paco, mcgarg, zig
Might lynch: Space, RR, J Reg
Rather not lynch: PPS
The difference between would and might is not a lot.
Basically I have one town read. That's...not great.
Sorry, but can you please spell McGarnacle correctly? =)
I could. But I like the nickname better.
Speaking of which, you need one too. Loopsie? I'm assuming that's where your name comes from.
I misspelled it, actually.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lalaloopsy
Would lynch: lalight, paco, mcgarg, zig
Might lynch: Space, RR, J Reg
Rather not lynch: PPS
The difference between would and might is not a lot.
Basically I have one town read. That's...not great.
Would lynch: lalight, paco, mcgarg, zig
Might lynch: Space, RR, J Reg
Rather not lynch: PPS
The difference between would and might is not a lot.
Basically I have one town read. That's...not great.
Sorry, but can you please spell McGarnacle correctly? =)
I could. But I like the nickname better.
I am honestly confused. If there is something posted somewhere that said that McGarnacle is specifically sensitive about the spelling of their username, please point me to it.
This is a forum where vote: mom salon was an acceptable way of voting for mcmcsalot.
LaLight seemed to find the Lalaloopsy thing fun. There are lots of abbreviations accepted (WW, SS, II, igu, ash, PPS, RR, galz, robz, joth, XP, SA) and unintentional misspellings (gkreig, etc.) throughout the forum.
I'm sure there are lots of other examples, too.
Off-topic: there's an option in member profiles on f.ds where you can toggle off the "show online" green box.
In case you want to be able to lie and say you were here when you weren't or vice versa.
Off-topic: there's an option in member profiles on f.ds where you can toggle off the "show online" green box.
In case you want to be able to lie and say you were here when you weren't or vice versa.
Off-topic: there's an option in member profiles on f.ds where you can toggle off the "show online" green box.
In case you want to be able to lie and say you were here when you weren't or vice versa.
I think we should keep it normal. It would making lying just a bit easier. I think it will be hard enough to figure out who is scum without them being able to lie about one of the few ways to actually sort of nail them.
The policy was there is no policy -- you can do what you want with your forum settings.
I think separately related was the basically written policy that the VLA thread is lie free -- if you were planning a fake VLA to miss a deadline on purpose, you couldn't post that lie in the VLA thread, as that thread is treated as honest and outside of games.
Because this is my first game (I have not yet come up with what to write, but do not worry, soon I will take an active part in the discussion.Lol.You're wrong,dude.I voted for you to see your reaction.I think it is too early to draw any conclusions.This joke is scummy. Plus emoticon.
Not superstrong, but I guess no D1 case ever is...
In the mean time, vote: Zigaton. Only posted twice, and both posts raised red flags for me.
That still doesn't explain why you have only posted a total of three times.
Because this is my first game (I have not yet come up with what to write, but do not worry, soon I will take an active part in the discussion.Lol.You're wrong,dude.I voted for you to see your reaction.I think it is too early to draw any conclusions.This joke is scummy. Plus emoticon.
Not superstrong, but I guess no D1 case ever is...
In the mean time, vote: Zigaton. Only posted twice, and both posts raised red flags for me.
That still doesn't explain why you have only posted a total of three times.
P.S. Excuse my terrible english :)
Oh, you are not a native speaker?
...that makes you harder to read. Hrmm.
So, what do we do next? I'm a little convinced in scumness of McGarnacle, but I don't want yet to vote him. Also Pacovf seems town. Ash is the hardest to read. RR seems helpful and good, maybe too much =)
Paco omgusing me doesn't really sway me off the idea.
Today, I hold the idea we will actually hit scum very loosely and look for the most informative flip which is still pretty loose as well, it's D1 after all.
Basically I have one town read. That's...not great.
vote: LaLight
Yeah, mr. A little too helpful Vote: LaLight
Note: 5 out of 8 players have expressed an interest in lynching me, so it's kinda hard for me to vote for someone without OMGUSing them...
Who is PPS and paco? I missed that part :-[.
Anybody that has played with Lalight before can tell us if he usually is this huh fluffy?
I am honestly confused. If there is something posted somewhere that said that McGarnacle is specifically sensitive about the spelling of their username, please point me to it.
Also, I'm a big fan of pushing buttons when I find them. If misspelling a name gets a rise I'll keep pushing that button. Reactions are analysis around here.
Also, I'm a big fan of pushing buttons when I find them. If misspelling a name gets a rise I'll keep pushing that button. Reactions are analysis around here.
Also, I'm a big fan of pushing buttons when I find them. If misspelling a name gets a rise I'll keep pushing that button. Reactions are analysis around here.
Um, what exactly do you expect to get out of this? Something like: "Listen you townie, if you misspell my username one more times, my mafia buddies will kill you... Uh oh, did I say that out loud?"
Forum downtime is poopy.
FWIW, the paco I remember from when he played way back when is the same paco that we see now.
He only played in one game, per the records, and he was town (and won). He lynched two scum, mislynched one town. Generally speaking, a good town player.
Since we've never seen scum!paco, and we don't have a lot to go on, he's going to remain hard to read. He's not going to be easy-to-catch scum.
vote: Zigaton
He is away for a long time, seems to be dodgy about answering questions and hasn't been terribly helpful.
vote: Zigaton
He is away for a long time, seems to be dodgy about answering questions and hasn't been terribly helpful.
IMO he tries to understand what is going on here. I don't see many people here being terribly helpful.
vote: Zigaton
He is away for a long time, seems to be dodgy about answering questions and hasn't been terribly helpful.
IMO he tries to understand what is going on here. I don't see many people here being terribly helpful.
And some being possibly too helpful...
vote: Zigaton
He is away for a long time, seems to be dodgy about answering questions and hasn't been terribly helpful.
IMO he tries to understand what is going on here. I don't see many people here being terribly helpful.
And some being possibly too helpful...
Who might these people be?
Also JReggie is strangely silent. RR too.
vote: Zigaton
He is away for a long time, seems to be dodgy about answering questions and hasn't been terribly helpful.
IMO he tries to understand what is going on here. I don't see many people here being terribly helpful.
And some being possibly too helpful...
Who might these people be?
Also JReggie is strangely silent. RR too.
You are being quite helpful, which may or may not be suspicious. How come JReggie and RR being silent is suspicious, while Zigaton's silence is not?
vote: Zigaton
He is away for a long time, seems to be dodgy about answering questions and hasn't been terribly helpful.
IMO he tries to understand what is going on here. I don't see many people here being terribly helpful.
And some being possibly too helpful...
Who might these people be?
Also JReggie is strangely silent. RR too.
You are being quite helpful, which may or may not be suspicious. How come JReggie and RR being silent is suspicious, while Zigaton's silence is not?
Zigaton is non-native super-newbie. They're not. I played with both and they are usually good readers and posters.
Quote from: pingpongsam link=topic=16181.msg637831#msg637P831 date=1474289612Also, I'm a big fan of pushing buttons when I find them. If misspelling a name gets a rise I'll keep pushing that button. Reactions are analysis around here.
Urgh. I'm not okay with trollish behaviour, which is what this sounds like :-(
He only played in one game, per the records, and he was town (and won).
I missed you guys
You're right. Seventy percent of families in the Russian mafia :)Because this is my first game (I have not yet come up with what to write, but do not worry, soon I will take an active part in the discussion.Lol.You're wrong,dude.I voted for you to see your reaction.I think it is too early to draw any conclusions.This joke is scummy. Plus emoticon.
Not superstrong, but I guess no D1 case ever is...
In the mean time, vote: Zigaton. Only posted twice, and both posts raised red flags for me.
That still doesn't explain why you have only posted a total of three times.
P.S. Excuse my terrible english :)
He must be scum! I've never heard of American or English mafia, but I have heard about Russian, Italian, etc.
P.S. No offense If you are from either of those two countries. :)
You're right. Seventy percent of families in the Russian mafia :)Because this is my first game (I have not yet come up with what to write, but do not worry, soon I will take an active part in the discussion.Lol.You're wrong,dude.I voted for you to see your reaction.I think it is too early to draw any conclusions.This joke is scummy. Plus emoticon.
Not superstrong, but I guess no D1 case ever is...
In the mean time, vote: Zigaton. Only posted twice, and both posts raised red flags for me.
That still doesn't explain why you have only posted a total of three times.
P.S. Excuse my terrible english :)
He must be scum! I've never heard of American or English mafia, but I have heard about Russian, Italian, etc.
P.S. No offense If you are from either of those two countries. :)
P.S. But I am not
Did you hear about American drug lords?They may be associated with the MafiaYou're right. Seventy percent of families in the Russian mafia :)Because this is my first game (I have not yet come up with what to write, but do not worry, soon I will take an active part in the discussion.Lol.You're wrong,dude.I voted for you to see your reaction.I think it is too early to draw any conclusions.This joke is scummy. Plus emoticon.
Not superstrong, but I guess no D1 case ever is...
In the mean time, vote: Zigaton. Only posted twice, and both posts raised red flags for me.
That still doesn't explain why you have only posted a total of three times.
P.S. Excuse my terrible english :)
He must be scum! I've never heard of American or English mafia, but I have heard about Russian, Italian, etc.
P.S. No offense If you are from either of those two countries. :)
P.S. But I am not
Me with Zigaton are both from Russia, but it's no offence. Though I've heard a lot about American Mafia. Chicago, isn't it?
Zigaton, do you have a basic idea of what's going on? Do you have any questions? If you have no idea of what's going on, post a short list of what you think of every player. It doesn't necessarily have to be based on facts, just the general feel you get from each player is enough, even if you can't quite explain them.
I don't want to be that guy, but Zigaton could be that super newbie scum who doesn't want to give himself away so he doesn't talk about the game at all.
I don't want to be that guy, but Zigaton could be that super newbie scum who doesn't want to give himself away so he doesn't talk about the game at all.
I don't want to be that guy, but Zigaton could be that super newbie scum who doesn't want to give himself away so he doesn't talk about the game at all.
Why don't we give him a day one pass and wait and see?
I don't want to be that guy, but Zigaton could be that super newbie scum who doesn't want to give himself away so he doesn't talk about the game at all.
Why don't we give him a day one pass and wait and see?
What do you mean by a day one pass?
I don't want to be that guy, but Zigaton could be that super newbie scum who doesn't want to give himself away so he doesn't talk about the game at all.
Why don't we give him a day one pass and wait and see?
What do you mean by a day one pass?
He means remove him from the lynch pool for D1 because he's new. This looks too scummy to be scum talking, if you ask me. Not to say Zigaton isn't scum but J Reggie couldn't be that brazen if he is partnered with Ziggy. at any rate I don't believe in passes except for people who have been consecutively killed D1 and for interesting claims that we are willing to vet out instead of force a flip. I mean, that's my viewpoint regardless, but in this particular game this turns into give all the new guys a pass for being new and lynch the old hands so I am especially opposed here.
Ok then. vote: zigaton
Ok then. vote: zigaton
Man, everyone is scummy.
But I'm not scummy. I'm an IC.
But I'm not scummy. I'm an IC.
What's an IC?
But I'm not scummy. I'm an IC.
What's an IC?
It means I'm confirmed town. This is because I claimed town in my second post.
But I'm not scummy. I'm an IC.
What's an IC?
It means I'm confirmed town. This is because I claimed town in my second post.
Great, thanks!
Thanks for the help. I got it.Zigaton, do you have a basic idea of what's going on? Do you have any questions? If you have no idea of what's going on, post a short list of what you think of every player. It doesn't necessarily have to be based on facts, just the general feel you get from each player is enough, even if you can't quite explain them.
Nice.Killing me, you reduce your chances of winning.Do you want to know my view? vote:pacovf
Nice.Killing me, you reduce your chances of winning.Do you want to know my view? vote:pacovf
it is because I am Russian?I think you voted for me to don't be the suspect.Have you real reason to kill me?Nice.Killing me, you reduce your chances of winning.Do you want to know my view? vote:pacovf
Sorry man, nothing personal. I just really think you are scum. And we don't tolerate mafia in our town!
Because you voted for me,but obviously I'm not mafia.Nice.Killing me, you reduce your chances of winning.Do you want to know my view? vote:pacovf
What has changed? Why vote for me after your unvote?
Voting for me doesn't magically make me come back by the way. I don't lurk in the game and I don't get a magical notification of I get a vote
Also, J Reggie, it would be nice if you posted something of substance.
Hmm what's the vote count? My worries about lynching zigaton D1 are more for meta reasons. We usually give complete newbies a D1 pass so that they don't rage quit mafia in general over a bad experience. Also I have no idea whether he's just newbie!town cautious or newbie!scum cautious. I'm going to unvote for now.
it is because I am Russian?I think you voted for me to don't be the suspect.Have you real reason to kill me?Nice.Killing me, you reduce your chances of winning.Do you want to know my view? vote:pacovf
Sorry man, nothing personal. I just really think you are scum. And we don't tolerate mafia in our town!
Fair enough. What's your position on the other players? Am I the only one you would like to see lynched?everyone who voted for me, maybe the Mafia. Since killing me, mafia get one more day.
this is getting interesting for me as a linguist: you don't just try to win, you try to make some understanding and analyzing in such circumstances. Cool. Coolcoolcool. Saying more about the game, IMO McGarnacle being made up some case on Zigaton, who is the perfect target for D1 lynch cause he posts not very much. It is convenient for McGarnacle here because he doesn't try to lynch any veteran or something. Well. Good play McGarnacle, though I will still continue to vote on you.
this is getting interesting for me as a linguist: you don't just try to win, you try to make some understanding and analyzing in such circumstances. Cool. Coolcoolcool. Saying more about the game, IMO McGarnacle being made up some case on Zigaton, who is the perfect target for D1 lynch cause he posts not very much. It is convenient for McGarnacle here because he doesn't try to lynch any veteran or something. Well. Good play McGarnacle, though I will still continue to vote on you.
Actually, if I was mafia, I would try to get a vet lynched. Plus, bare in mind, I'm almost as newbie as Zigaton, so unfortunately I'm not quite the evil mastermind you take me for.
There's really no psychology for that. I don't think his cockiness or him using the word scum should impact your readsthis is getting interesting for me as a linguist: you don't just try to win, you try to make some understanding and analyzing in such circumstances. Cool. Coolcoolcool. Saying more about the game, IMO McGarnacle being made up some case on Zigaton, who is the perfect target for D1 lynch cause he posts not very much. It is convenient for McGarnacle here because he doesn't try to lynch any veteran or something. Well. Good play McGarnacle, though I will still continue to vote on you.
Actually, if I was mafia, I would try to get a vet lynched. Plus, bare in mind, I'm almost as newbie as Zigaton, so unfortunately I'm not quite the evil mastermind you take me for.
Yeah, but if you're Mafia, you've got an experienced buddy who's told you what to say and how to behave, since I don't really see you being partners with either LaLight or Zigaton. I think you're being vaguely suspicious, like enough to leave my RVS vote on you for now, but you also seem a bit cocky, and you use the word scum a whole lot.. I feel like that probably leans townie. Does anyone with more experience know how the psychology works for that?
Also, I think one thing that's making it harder to move this game along is that our conversations are getting stratified into newbies and old hands. I feel like the oldies want to make it interesting for themselves by playing a deep game around those of us who haven't quite got the skills yet. But if we don't get the old and new people interacting more, then not a lot is going to happen.Whassup?
I think having RR and J Reggie here and active and being bridge-like would really help :-)
Also, I think one thing that's making it harder to move this game along is that our conversations are getting stratified into newbies and old hands. I feel like the oldies want to make it interesting for themselves by playing a deep game around those of us who haven't quite got the skills yet. But if we don't get the old and new people interacting more, then not a lot is going to happen.Whassup?
I think having RR and J Reggie here and active and being bridge-like would really help :-)
Also, I think one thing that's making it harder to move this game along is that our conversations are getting stratified into newbies and old hands. I feel like the oldies want to make it interesting for themselves by playing a deep game around those of us who haven't quite got the skills yet. But if we don't get the old and new people interacting more, then not a lot is going to happen.Whassup?
I think having RR and J Reggie here and active and being bridge-like would really help :-)
I think I've been rather conversational and trying to fill in the gaps where needed. I'm not sure what is not constructive about my posts. The game has actually moved along fairly well for D1. Once a flip or two is in things will pick up quite a bit because everyone will have their interpretation of what it means. Also, if we have any night action results from PRs it gets especially thick.
At this point it is about corralling the votes towards a lynch. I'm still currently happy with my vote where it is as I've seen nothing that convinces me it is in the wrong place nor that there might be a better place.
There's really no psychology for that. I don't think his cockiness or him using the word scum should impact your readsthis is getting interesting for me as a linguist: you don't just try to win, you try to make some understanding and analyzing in such circumstances. Cool. Coolcoolcool. Saying more about the game, IMO McGarnacle being made up some case on Zigaton, who is the perfect target for D1 lynch cause he posts not very much. It is convenient for McGarnacle here because he doesn't try to lynch any veteran or something. Well. Good play McGarnacle, though I will still continue to vote on you.
Actually, if I was mafia, I would try to get a vet lynched. Plus, bare in mind, I'm almost as newbie as Zigaton, so unfortunately I'm not quite the evil mastermind you take me for.
Yeah, but if you're Mafia, you've got an experienced buddy who's told you what to say and how to behave, since I don't really see you being partners with either LaLight or Zigaton. I think you're being vaguely suspicious, like enough to leave my RVS vote on you for now, but you also seem a bit cocky, and you use the word scum a whole lot.. I feel like that probably leans townie. Does anyone with more experience know how the psychology works for that?
I think I've been rather conversational and trying to fill in the gaps where needed. I'm not sure what is not constructive about my posts. The game has actually moved along fairly well for D1. Once a flip or two is in things will pick up quite a bit because everyone will have their interpretation of what it means. Also, if we have any night action results from PRs it gets especially thick.
At this point it is about corralling the votes towards a lynch. I'm still currently happy with my vote where it is as I've seen nothing that convinces me it is in the wrong place nor that there might be a better place.
I guess I could see a McGarnacle-zigaton scum team.
I guess I could see a McGarnacle-zigaton scum team.
Do you really think one would bus the other in that newbie team-up?
Also, had a thought, but I think if the Rolecop is in the game, it would be good to claim. I can explain after.
I guess I could see a McGarnacle-zigaton scum team.
I guess I could see a McGarnacle-zigaton scum team.Nope.pacovf first voted for me.I do not know why McGarnacle thinks I Mafia.Then everyone started to think that I Mafia.
I'm pretty sure you and Ash have something else entirely going on at a higher leve...Nah, he didn't open with "I have a plan", so I'm totally lost now.
I don't like the corralling thing you mention, though... isn't the whole point of D1 was to get people talking and into the game? Otherwise, why would it be so long. We have zero information to go on, so we have to make people talk to each other.Yeah, we need to talk and all but the real deal is the day ends and it would be really dumb to go no lynch so face the facts; at some point we have to agree on a lynch. If it's going to be a mislynch usually scum is doing the corralling so scum would be uncomfortable with that notion being brought out so explicitly. Expect a scum lynch to be fairly hard to come by since they are very unlikely to help in that. Quite positive paco is town just because the wagon went way too quickly to L-1. I suppose there could be some early bussing that got out of hand (so LaLight is a prime suspect, there) or it just happened like that and somebody got scared of being on the tail end of it and forcing it through (oh, look, LaLight is the bad guy, again).
Ultra-helpy LaLight is just town LaLight as far as I've seen elsewhere, so that's not a D1 option for me. I seem to have started the one and only actual wagon, so if you just wanted to kill people, you'd be on that one instead. @Ash and @Paco, what am I missing here?
What can the rolecop do?
What can the rolecop do?
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Role_Cop
Also, had a thought, but I think if the Rolecop is in the game, it would be good to claim. I can explain after.
I would actually be fine getting lynched if you lynch Zigaton after me. Town would then have a big advantage, with only one scum left and 5 town.
What are these facts?For example?I'm pretty sure you and Ash have something else entirely going on at a higher leve...Nah, he didn't open with "I have a plan", so I'm totally lost now.QuoteI don't like the corralling thing you mention, though... isn't the whole point of D1 was to get people talking and into the game? Otherwise, why would it be so long. We have zero information to go on, so we have to make people talk to each other.Yeah, we need to talk and all but the real deal is the day ends and it would be really dumb to go no lynch so face the facts; at some point we have to agree on a lynch. If it's going to be a mislynch usually scum is doing the corralling so scum would be uncomfortable with that notion being brought out so explicitly. Expect a scum lynch to be fairly hard to come by since they are very unlikely to help in that. Quite positive paco is town just because the wagon went way too quickly to L-1. I suppose there could be some early bussing that got out of hand (so LaLight is a prime suspect, there) or it just happened like that and somebody got scared of being on the tail end of it and forcing it through (oh, look, LaLight is the bad guy, again).QuoteUltra-helpy LaLight is just town LaLight as far as I've seen elsewhere, so that's not a D1 option for me. I seem to have started the one and only actual wagon, so if you just wanted to kill people, you'd be on that one instead. @Ash and @Paco, what am I missing here?
You see ultra-helpy and I see scum wanting cred in the few places he can get it. I'm not arguing with your position so much as substantiating mine. Paco was the first actual wagon, McGarnacle just happens to be the current one so your next sentence there is not entirely true especially since ash technically started it through suggestion you just happened to vote first. I don't want to just kill people I want to kill the right people.
Sure.Also, I think one thing that's making it harder to move this game along is that our conversations are getting stratified into newbies and old hands. I feel like the oldies want to make it interesting for themselves by playing a deep game around those of us who haven't quite got the skills yet. But if we don't get the old and new people interacting more, then not a lot is going to happen.Whassup?
I think having RR and J Reggie here and active and being bridge-like would really help :-)
Yay, I call and you appear -- that's cool! :-) Can we make some more discussion happen, of the sort where Ash/PPS/Paco actually converse with the newbies in a constructive way?
We've still got what 5 days till the end of the day, so we don't need to rush for a lynch quite yet. Before I reread again, PPS or Zigaton would be ok lynches, so would be McGarnacle and Lalight, and I am promoting J Reggie to lynchable by virtue of me not remembering if h's done anything memorable yet. RR and McG would be the main targets of a reread, I think.
Well, its starting to look like we won't lynch Zigaton after all.
Well, its starting to look like me won't lynch Zigaton after all.
Well, its starting to look like me won't lynch Zigaton after all.
What are these facts?For example?
P.S. Specially for newbie :)
SpaceAnemone is conf!town as far as I am concerned. There's no way they're faking it. How many games have you played, again?
It's not fair. Why do you think so? The fact that we're friends does not mean that we are a mafia. He protected me just because I'm a newbie and not good at English. I do not know whether or not it is the mafia. He can be a mafia.Well, its starting to look like me won't lynch Zigaton after all.
Well, not with that attitude.
Also, wagons are a lot more volatile as the deadline approaches. From where I am standing, I'd say Zigaton and Lalight seem like the most likely lynches right now. But somebody could say something scummy before then, or come up with a case, or what have you.
It's not fair. Why do you think so? The fact that we're friends does not mean that we are a mafia. He protected me just because I'm a newbie and not good at English. I do not know whether or not it is the mafia. He can be a mafia.Well, its starting to look like me won't lynch Zigaton after all.
Well, not with that attitude.
Also, wagons are a lot more volatile as the deadline approaches. From where I am standing, I'd say Zigaton and Lalight seem like the most likely lynches right now. But somebody could say something scummy before then, or come up with a case, or what have you.
Okay, so if one more person votes for me, I get lynched. After a majority votes, do I die instantly or do I have time to mount a final defense?
Okay, so if one more person votes for me, I get lynched. After a majority votes, do I die instantly or do I have time to mount a final defense?
Okay, so if one more person votes for me, I get lynched. After a majority votes, do I die instantly or do I have time to mount a final defense?
you will be able to speak more for some time, so-called Twilight, but you will be already lynched on that point.
After the last vote is cast, you are guaranteed to die, and you get to speak until the mod sees that last vote and closes the thread.
I haven't been following the game super closely the last two days, can someone remind me why we think McG is scum?
After the last vote is cast, you are guaranteed to die, and you get to speak until the mod sees that last vote and closes the thread.
I haven't been following the game super closely the last two days, can someone remind me why we think McG is scum?
there is three cases on him from me personally:
1) Pushing on Zigaton without any explanations other than "he's scummy"
2) Repeating phrase "If I was scum, I would"
3) Emoji thing.
it is because I am Russian?I think you voted for me to don't be the suspect.Have you real reason to kill me?Nice.Killing me, you reduce your chances of winning.Do you want to know my view? vote:pacovf
Sorry man, nothing personal. I just really think you are scum. And we don't tolerate mafia in our town!
No, I have nothing against you personally, I just think you've a) been very quiet b) haven't really added anything to the discussion and c) now accuse me of being scum to take the pressure off of you.
Also, if I was mafia, I would try to get a vet mislynched because (no offense) they would be more dangerous to the mafia then a newbie.
After the last vote is cast, you are guaranteed to die, and you get to speak until the mod sees that last vote and closes the thread.
I haven't been following the game super closely the last two days, can someone remind me why we think McG is scum?
there is three cases on him from me personally:
1) Pushing on Zigaton without any explanations other than "he's scummy"
2) Repeating phrase "If I was scum, I would"
3) Emoji thing.
1) I listed plenty of reasons for going after Zigaton a few pages back. a) he posts rarely, and mainly just to defend himself and
b) Pretty much his defense when I attacked him was "maybe YOUR scum, and you are just trying to deflect suspicion from yourself", which I think is a week defense.
2) I repeated "If I was scum I would" when people accused me and I tried to show why my current course of action would be inconsistent with the goals of the mafia.
3) Look at my other posts on f.ds, I use a lot of emojis.
After the last vote is cast, you are guaranteed to die, and you get to speak until the mod sees that last vote and closes the thread.
I haven't been following the game super closely the last two days, can someone remind me why we think McG is scum?
there is three cases on him from me personally:
1) Pushing on Zigaton without any explanations other than "he's scummy"
2) Repeating phrase "If I was scum, I would"
3) Emoji thing.
1) I listed plenty of reasons for going after Zigaton a few pages back. a) he posts rarely, and mainly just to defend himself and
b) Pretty much his defense when I attacked him was "maybe YOUR scum, and you are just trying to deflect suspicion from yourself", which I think is a week defense.
2) I repeated "If I was scum I would" when people accused me and I tried to show why my current course of action would be inconsistent with the goals of the mafia.
3) Look at my other posts on f.ds, I use a lot of emojis.
3) not the using of it as it is. When someone told "scum likes to use emojis" you made a post made of them.
Also, I remembered:
4) Fluffiness as it is. Trying to speak about many things that are not about the game.
vote: McGarnacle
vote: McGarnacle
Why not?
Why did you do this?
vote: McGarnacle
Why not?
Why did you do this?
And if you know why I did it please don't say.
And if you know why I did it please don't say.
it's no fhun to do such things
And if you know why I did it please don't say.
it's no fhun to do such things
actually, it's pretty hilarious because of you
vote: McGarnacle
vote: McGarnacle
I disapprove. Especially in a newbie game.
vote: McGarnacle
I disapprove. Especially in a newbie game.
The question is, do you think what he did was scummy? Do you even know what he did?
vote: McGarnacle
I disapprove. Especially in a newbie game.
The question is, do you think what he did was scummy? Do you even know what he did?
No. Yes. I hope the reason I disapprove is obvious enough, if not, I will spell it out in due time.
You realize that this discussion is counterproductive to what J Reggie did, right?
Makes PpS scummier, just like his reaction to my Rolecop idea.
Makes PpS scummier, just like his reaction to my Rolecop idea.
Makes PpS scummier, just like his reaction to my Rolecop idea.
I'm scummy for reading the setup or because you thought you had some clever trap laid?
I'm really confused how either was a trap. Please explain the win conditions (with a straight face).
Makes PpS scummier, just like his reaction to my Rolecop idea.
I'm scummy for reading the setup or because you thought you had some clever trap laid?
Makes PpS scummier, just like his reaction to my Rolecop idea.
I'm scummy for reading the setup or because you thought you had some clever trap laid?
Not so clever, but as LaLight says, reactions are key. We're learning these new players still, we need to see them figure stuff out themselves.
I still think the Rolecop, if there is one, should claim. The pros outweigh the cons.
Makes PpS scummier, just like his reaction to my Rolecop idea.
I'm scummy for reading the setup or because you thought you had some clever trap laid?
Not so clever, but as LaLight says, reactions are key. We're learning these new players still, we need to see them figure stuff out themselves.
You got a reaction; I went a read the setup because I was wondering why you would make it clear you knew there was a town role cop in the game. Then I saw that it was a possible role but only as scum.
This utterly confused me. I would never think to try such an obviously failed gambit, and I am not opposed to some outlandish gambits. I'll try to hang back and let these silly things play out some more, I didn't know it was going to be like that; I'm not necessarily arguing against it.
What makes you think that if I write rarely, I Mafia? I wrote that "I have a brand new and don't know what to write." Besides, if I didn't have time to write much and I'm ashamed of my English. Now I have enough free time.After the last vote is cast, you are guaranteed to die, and you get to speak until the mod sees that last vote and closes the thread.
I haven't been following the game super closely the last two days, can someone remind me why we think McG is scum?
there is three cases on him from me personally:
1) Pushing on Zigaton without any explanations other than "he's scummy"
2) Repeating phrase "If I was scum, I would"
3) Emoji thing.
1) I listed plenty of reasons for going after Zigaton a few pages back. a) he posts rarely, and mainly just to defend himself and
b) Pretty much his defense when I attacked him was "maybe YOUR scum, and you are just trying to deflect suspicion from yourself", which I think is a week defense.
2) I repeated "If I was scum I would" when people accused me and I tried to show why my current course of action would be inconsistent with the goals of the mafia.
3) Look at my other posts on f.ds, I use a lot of emojis.
You got a reaction; I went a read the setup because I was wondering why you would make it clear you knew there was a town role cop in the game. Then I saw that it was a possible role but only as scum.
I went and read the setup post so I could check what Haddock-the-role-cop would be able to do, so that I could try to understand what clever thing Ash had seen.This utterly confused me. I would never think to try such an obviously failed gambit, and I am not opposed to some outlandish gambits. I'll try to hang back and let these silly things play out some more, I didn't know it was going to be like that; I'm not necessarily arguing against it.
Actually, a few weeks ago, I'm sure LaLight and I would also have fallen for some of that kind of stuff! But the chance of having a newbie rolecop in the game is really small, so mostly what the newbie-scum-baiting is doing is making potential scum newbies more cautious and less likely to want to say anything, I think.
Okay, I'm probably toast either way now, but I'm the motion tracker. I can figure out what people do at night. Of course, now if you guys don't lynch me, the mafia will. Unless town believes me and mafia doesn't, which is unlikely.
unvote unless a good counterclaim comes up, this should IC McGarnacle.
Very mild scum on PPS. My evidence is mostly process of eliminationis that allowed? I thought at first it is necessary to prove, and then kill
There is no way to 'prove it.' That's impossible.Very mild scum on PPS. My evidence is mostly process of eliminationis that allowed? I thought at first it is necessary to prove, and then kill
Vote Count 1.6
pingpongsam (1): pacovf
LaLight (1): pingpongsam
McGarnacle (2): Roadrunner7671, LaLight
Zigaton (1): McGarnacle
Roadrunner7671 (1): ashersky
Not Voting (3): Zigaton, J Reggie, SpaceAnemone
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Sep 26, 22:00 forum time. That is in 4 days and 2+ hours.
There is no way to 'prove it.' That's impossible.Very mild scum on PPS. My evidence is mostly process of eliminationis that allowed? I thought at first it is necessary to prove, and then kill
But if I think everyone is town but I don't feel that way about PPS, it makes logical sense to vote for him
Vote Count 1.6
pingpongsam (1): pacovf
LaLight (1): pingpongsam
McGarnacle (2): Roadrunner7671, LaLight
Zigaton (1): McGarnacle
Roadrunner7671 (1): ashersky
Not Voting (3): Zigaton, J Reggie, SpaceAnemone
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Sep 26, 22:00 forum time. That is in 4 days and 2+ hours.
Never mind.
But if I think everyone is town but I don't feel that way about PPS, it makes logical sense to vote for him
Very mild scum on PPS. My evidence is mostly process of eliminationis that allowed? I thought at first it is necessary to prove, and then kill
Stop trying to read me
Stop trying to read me
Stop trying to read me
Isn't this one of the points of the game, especially D1?
It never works though. I've never gotten lynched on D1 or D2 as scum. I'm just the default on D1 if we can't find anyone else
I've been less active because of school but I don't think it's changed my style at all. But no, I'm not scum.It never works though. I've never gotten lynched on D1 or D2 as scum. I'm just the default on D1 if we can't find anyone else
That doesn't mean that if we lynch you now you won't be scum. You seem different from your normal town self. Maybe there's a reason for that, like you're in school, but saying "you can't read me" doesn't help your case.
Disagree completely with SA's J Reg case.
Strong town read on SA.
Disagree completely with SA's J Reg case.
Strong town read on SA.
So then I'm left with JR and RR, and I expected my reread to back up JR's case on RR, but it doesn't. JR is so absent early on that he'd posted more stuff before it had started than in its early pages. He voted for Paco because of his opening statement about not being Mafia (#68), then later made a point of saying it's something you'd only do as town (#96), and then goes on to say he's town a whole bunch of times, which is essentially the same thing as being not Mafia.
He's quite jumpy about votes, like saying he won't vote for Zigaton, then voting for him, then going back to RR, who he'd been voting for earlier. Actually, he seems to be quite against RR in general, when RR's actually not really said anything too suspicious (though it would be good if he'd interact more!).
Do scums do fake hammers to look townie? Especially ones who know there are some newbie-but-learning people like me and LaLight who might then assume he's good? I think this might be like WIFOM, but I'm still generally not liking it.
he may well be the Mafia. While he did not himself compromised, in addition, it can easily divert suspicion from himself. More precisely I can only say in D-2Very mild scum on PPS. My evidence is mostly process of eliminationis that allowed? I thought at first it is necessary to prove, and then kill
@Zigaton, what do you think of LaLight?
he may well be the Mafia. While he did not himself compromised, in addition, it can easily divert suspicion from himself. More precisely I can only say in D-2Very mild scum on PPS. My evidence is mostly process of eliminationis that allowed? I thought at first it is necessary to prove, and then kill
@Zigaton, what do you think of LaLight?
he may well be the Mafia. While he did not himself compromised, in addition, it can easily divert suspicion from himself. More precisely I can only say in D-2Very mild scum on PPS. My evidence is mostly process of eliminationis that allowed? I thought at first it is necessary to prove, and then kill
@Zigaton, what do you think of LaLight?
he may well be the Mafia. While he did not himself compromised, in addition, it can easily divert suspicion from himself. More precisely I can only say in D-2Very mild scum on PPS. My evidence is mostly process of eliminationis that allowed? I thought at first it is necessary to prove, and then kill
@Zigaton, what do you think of LaLight?
Why D2 specifically?
he may well be the Mafia. While he did not himself compromised, in addition, it can easily divert suspicion from himself. More precisely I can only say in D-2Very mild scum on PPS. My evidence is mostly process of eliminationis that allowed? I thought at first it is necessary to prove, and then kill
@Zigaton, what do you think of LaLight?
Why D2 specifically?
Sounds like he's soft claiming, so let's not prod any further.
I don't know, you just feel so different from your regular games, and well acti-lurking always raises red flags. You are not necessarily Lalight's scumpartner, but you have enough strikes against you even without that.
I do not know anything about him. he never contacted me. I don't think he can be a mafia.he may well be the Mafia. While he did not himself compromised, in addition, it can easily divert suspicion from himself. More precisely I can only say in D-2Very mild scum on PPS. My evidence is mostly process of eliminationis that allowed? I thought at first it is necessary to prove, and then kill
@Zigaton, what do you think of LaLight?
What to do you think about PPS?
What do you mean with the "D1 pass business"?
I don't understand how it happened. But why do you lynching RR?
I think SS missed my vote.
vote: PPS
Vote Count 1.9
pingpongsam (3): pacovf, LaLight, McGarnacle
LaLight (1): pingpongsam
McGarnacle (1): Roadrunner7671
Roadrunner7671 (3): ashersky, J Reggie, SpaceAnemone
Not Voting (1): Zigaton
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Sep 26, 22:00 forum time. That is in 13h 40m.I think SS missed my vote.
vote: PPS
Votes require a whitespace after the colon to be counted.
Guys, time is running out. Though I don't want to lynch RR. He was really busy.
You pressured me?
Both RR and you feel a bit off from your usual playstyle. Of course once you point that out it becomes a huge meta ball, but still. I prefer you slightly over RR because you are a bit scarier,RR feels off because he is scum and he's not terribly good at it. RR is obvtown when he's town. Me, i don't realyl have a usual play style. if anything, I'd say I am far easier top spot as scum than as town. As town I feel safer playing loose and attracting attention because if I go down there's good interaction around me to analyze. I think we've only played one game together before and I seem to recall being scum that game? If that is the case then me seeming off would because I'm not scum now.
because trying to defuse the fake hammer doesn't look good (especially when you say it's ok because it created interactions or whatever),The fake hammer thing was going to get some one in hot water regardless. What I mewan is there was no probability of snaring scum but 10-0% probability someone was going to get a wagon on them just for looking at it. At the time I was simply trying to understand the purpose behind it to determine if JR was scum for doing it. I'm not entirely sure I've seen a fake hammer in any of my games before so i was processing the import of it in real time. Had I know what they represent prior tot hat point I would have probably stayed entirely silent. Anyhow, i stand by the fact that we now have a wagon on me because of it so clearly it created valuable interaction. Unfortunately one fo my biggest town reads ran with that so if I die over it isn't likely to bring suspicion on any scum.
and because lynching lurkers D1 is a double edged sword. It's not a super huge preference mind you.I'm not seeing Zigaton as a lurker (but I'm calibrated by the likes of chairs and that other guy who posts so little I can't even remember his name)
I prefer either of you to Lalight because he's a newbie, which is always harder to predict.At least you are honest about wanting to lynch out the vets first which is ironic considering you are one of them moreso than several others.
That's L-1.
I don't understand how it happened. But why do you lynching RR?
Not saying anything is a really good way for scum to hide. Also, Ash pointed out that one of the relatively few posts RR was scummy a while back (post #290). Now he's asserting he's the scummiest person out there, presumably because he's been so lurky here, and yet usually if he's town he's more obviously helpful (he's been in the other games I've played too).
Getting a bit meta, Ash really doesn't seem to say much of anything at all here -- he's mostly acting and voting without a lot of commentary, unlike the other two oldies -- but the other two seem to respect him and not read that as suspicious, which gives me a bit more confidence in what he's saying. That's one reason I don't want to lose the super-experienced players too quickly, because second-hand meta-reading seems to be something we might be able to pull off to help us :-)
Vote: RR
Impressed that scum took the chance on Ziggy's soft-claim rather than kill McBarnacle. Considering Ziggy's parlance I would not have relied on that so heavily; although I can see how getting the cop out of the picture was pretty important. I suppose his soft claim seemed harder to scum because they presumably knew the full setup? I mean otherwise, he looked like the easiest D2 mislynch ever.
Ashersky fished Ziggy on his soft-claim. JR called it out for what it was. Looking at which I find scummier I have to choose Ashersky. He knows what he is doing and has been putting out these obvious ploys to appear town all along and then slides this gem in when he smells a PR. I think JR's response to it is in line with my own sorts of reactions to these silly ploys yesterday.
I was totally wrong about RR/LaLight. I reread LaLight again post-flip and I have a hard time seeing the guy as scum with that piece of knowledge in mind. Also, feel strong town about Paco going into today.
POE means the ashersky/JR interaction around the soft-claim could have been a coordinated scum push pull tactic. I think this becomes more reasonable if the order of who did what was reversed but I still find it quite plausible.
If I'm anyone but me and PPS, I think it's me and PPS, btw.
This looks perplexing to me, though. Seems the vote should have been on ashersky unless you're saying you sheeped ashersky hoping he was town? Can you elucidate your position on the RR wagon?
he may well be the Mafia. While he did not himself compromised, in addition, it can easily divert suspicion from himself. More precisely I can only say in D-2Very mild scum on PPS. My evidence is mostly process of eliminationis that allowed? I thought at first it is necessary to prove, and then kill
@Zigaton, what do you think of LaLight?
Why D2 specifically?
Sounds like he's soft claiming, so let's not prod any further.
Still want to see if McGladiator got results before I place a vote. If I understand his role correctly his target lights up if they did some targeting or were targeted themselves. Here's hoping he targeted ashersky. I would also hope if Ziggy targeted ash it would still light up? Silver, will the Motion Detector still detect on the target or actions of the Cop who got NK'd?
Of course, the setup is now known to have a Scum RB and it makes good sense to have killed Ziggy and blocked the other known PR.
Still want to see if McGladiator got results before I place a vote. If I understand his role correctly his target lights up if they did some targeting or were targeted themselves. Here's hoping he targeted ashersky. I would also hope if Ziggy targeted ash it would still light up? Silver, will the Motion Detector still detect on the target or actions of the Cop who got NK'd?
Of course, the setup is now known to have a Scum RB and it makes good sense to have killed Ziggy and blocked the other known PR.
Scumslip detected. Vote: PPS
Example:
If 12 is randomized, the roles at 11 (Motion Detector), 12 (Roleblocker), and 1 (Weak Visitor) are being chosen.
hmm, I must be that bad at reading setups. You seem certain a scum!pps would be so bad at it as well.
Ash always says scumslips don't exist but I'm sure today is a special day since he can kill a townie with the magical scumslip of evermore.
silver, will the Motion Detector still detect on the target or actions of the Cop who got NK'd?
Wow, a lot happened while I was getting dinner into the oven!
Vote: PPS
I think LaLight catching that backs up my LaLight-is-so-townie vibe really well, too!
Okay guys, I'm really sorry. I forgot I was the Motion Tracker. I wasn't even that busy, I just completely forgot. Really sorry!!!
If both cop and motion detector target detection-immune mafia, what does the motion detector see?
I feel really bad for RR. At first I thought he was town, but I still voted for him. I think we should try PPS.
I feel really bad for RR. At first I thought he was town, but I still voted for him. I think we should try PPS.
You have to. This is a horrible mistake regardless of my alignment. There is no way to correctly read anyone around it. Lynching me today doesn't really reveal anything about anyone's alignment because hey, it's the obvious scumslip angle that magically absolves everyone of responsibility when it turns out to not be true. My apologies, fellow townies.
I do not believe pps at all. This is his desperate move tobe saved and it highlights his scumness even more.
I do not believe pps at all. This is his desperate move tobe saved and it highlights his scumness even more.
Well your sure going after PPS agressively.
I do not believe pps at all. This is his desperate move tobe saved and it highlights his scumness even more.
I feel really bad for RR. At first I thought he was town, but I still voted for him. I think we should try PPS.
You have to. This is a horrible mistake regardless of my alignment. There is no way to correctly read anyone around it. Lynching me today doesn't really reveal anything about anyone's alignment because hey, it's the obvious scumslip angle that magically absolves everyone of responsibility when it turns out to not be true. My apologies, fellow townies.
Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying.
I do not believe pps at all. This is his desperate move tobe saved and it highlights his scumness even more.
Well your sure going after PPS agressively.
As i told earlier he was suspicious D1, messing our so-called traps. Now he obviously scumslipped. Of he talks out of it, it will be brilliant scum play. I won't change my mind though
I do not believe pps at all. This is his desperate move tobe saved and it highlights his scumness even more.
Agree. PPS is one to scumslip, too.
I feel really bad for RR. At first I thought he was town, but I still voted for him. I think we should try PPS.
You have to. This is a horrible mistake regardless of my alignment. There is no way to correctly read anyone around it. Lynching me today doesn't really reveal anything about anyone's alignment because hey, it's the obvious scumslip angle that magically absolves everyone of responsibility when it turns out to not be true. My apologies, fellow townies.
Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying.
I'm saying if you don't lynch me today you will have to lynch me tomorrow or the next day or whatever because we will forever circle back to well PPS must be scum because of that whole scumslip setup thing that happened. The truly unfortunate bit is that there is no information to be gained from doing it because scum has all the excuse they need to be on a town mislynch. If you wait to lynch me later then I am the easiest mislynch when we are at LyLo.
I do not believe pps at all. This is his desperate move tobe saved and it highlights his scumness even more.
Well your sure going after PPS agressively.
As i told earlier he was suspicious D1, messing our so-called traps. Now he obviously scumslipped. Of he talks out of it, it will be brilliant scum play. I won't change my mind though
What did he say which was so damning? I missed it.
Man, it's been awhile since I had one of those.
Man, it's been awhile since I had one of those.
Congratulations on the hammer, partner.
I got the reaction we needed to see with the delay via unvote. Paco strikes me as most likely partner.
Chances McGarg is lying? He can't be, right?
PPS blocked McGarg (unneeded, turns out) and they saw a soft claim I missed.
I actually thought the D2 comment was a scumslip (in that he'd know after he killed him). That's why I called it out.
It's a vanilla game now. Good shape tomorrow anyway.
Man, it's been awhile since I had one of those.
Congratulations on the hammer, partner.
I got the reaction we needed to see with the delay via unvote. Paco strikes me as most likely partner.
Chances McGarg is lying? He can't be, right?
PPS blocked McGarg (unneeded, turns out) and they saw a soft claim I missed.
I actually thought the D2 comment was a scumslip (in that he'd know after he killed him). That's why I called it out.
It's a vanilla game now. Good shape tomorrow anyway.
Seriously considered stealing the hammer just so you couldn't have it. Pretty sure I've done that before.
So we killed PPS, right?
Man, it's been awhile since I had one of those.
Congratulations on the hammer, partner.I got the reaction we needed to see with the delay via unvote. Paco strikes me as most likely partner.
Chances McGarg is lying? He can't be, right?
What does all this mean??? I'm super confused.
Man, it's been awhile since I had one of those.
Congratulations on the hammer, partner.I got the reaction we needed to see with the delay via unvote. Paco strikes me as most likely partner.
Chances McGarg is lying? He can't be, right?
What does all this mean??? I'm super confused.
It means you just mislynched a townie again, and you forgot to use your role power so you are the LVP of the game. But at least your username is fun to change around.
Look, I had to be talked out of coming straight out fake claiming cop so I could force a counter claim and out the cop and maybe even get him mislynched to boot, so this was a disappointing exit.
Wow.. that was all so fast! I've only just eaten dinner, then there were like 14 intervening posts while I was writing a comment to McGarnacle, and now there's no point in even posting it. That was practically a real-time conversation! Do we have a minimum day length?
I guess it goes to show that no-one can get away with crime, not even pompomsan.
I feel really bad for RR. At first I thought he was town, but I still voted for him. I think we should try PPS.
You have to. This is a horrible mistake regardless of my alignment. There is no way to correctly read anyone around it. Lynching me today doesn't really reveal anything about anyone's alignment because hey, it's the obvious scumslip angle that magically absolves everyone of responsibility when it turns out to not be true. My apologies, fellow townies.
Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying.
Look, I had to be talked out of coming straight out fake claiming cop so I could force a counter claim and out the cop and maybe even get him mislynched to boot, so this was a disappointing exit.
It's basically impossible for McGarg to be lying. And since PPS told us they have a RB, that makes sense as the reason he survived N1.
So PPS claiming ash is his partner is total Wifom, but being talked out of claiming cop... ash seems like one of the only ones who would do that besides me. And I'm IC so that means it's likely ash is PPS's partner.
So PPS claiming ash is his partner is total Wifom, but being talked out of claiming cop... ash seems like one of the only ones who would do that besides me. And I'm IC so that means it's likely ash is PPS's partner.
You don't seriously believe that, do you? You think I would openly out my partner in twilight?
I guess it goes to show that no-one can get away with crime, not even pompomsan.
"pompomsan" is the greatest thing ever.
ok. So, I thinking PPS actually helped his newbie friend, breaking our traps, So it is either SA or Pacovf (?). SA is more likely. I'll reread interactions with PPS.
Also, I think I am an IC, catching PPS on this scumslip, am I not?
ok. So, I thinking PPS actually helped his newbie friend, breaking our traps, So it is either SA or Pacovf (?). SA is more likely. I'll reread interactions with PPS.
Also, I think I am an IC, catching PPS on this scumslip, am I not?
Big rereads planned -- no fast lynching.
Argh.. really sorry for not being present today :-( I've had a big concert this evening, and it went amazingly, but I've just come home from the afterparty and it's too late to do thinking... though I'd have a chance to phonepost between the rehearsals and concert, but I was rushed off my feet. I'll definitely make time to do proper reading tomorrow :-)
Being at a concert... Sounds scummy to me! :)
This joke is scummy. Plus emoticon.
Oh, not you as well!! Silver seemed to take issue with my use of smilies right from my first game :-( For some of us, they're just useful forms of written communication, and they don't mean anything at all about our scumminess or lack thereof!
Scum always says that.
I think it's time for a read list:
Would lynch:
Zigaton (as far as I am concerned, his second post was super scummy. Might be me OMGUSing, I am hoping it isn't)
PPS (jumping on easy votes, makes me feel uneasy)
Lalight (has done some things typically attributed to scum)
McGarnacle (don't feel very strongly about this one, but will vote if necessary)
Would not lynch:
SpaceAnemone (strongish townread)
RoadRunner (mild townread)
No opinion:
ashersky (not as confrontational as he usually is, dunno how to feel about that)
J Reggie (barely present)
Would lynch: lalight, paco, mcgarg, zig
Might lynch: Space, RR, J Reg
Rather not lynch: PPS
The difference between would and might is not a lot.
Basically I have one town read. That's...not great.
Interesting, I hate when I have a bunch of town reads all,over the place, especially early on. Also I am suspicious of people who read town on everyone except a couple people, it is an easy scum tactic to softly direct for mislynches. I mean, yeah, when someone is scummy they are scummy and should make the list and not everyone is going to be scummy like that.
Today, I hold the idea we will actually hit scum very loosely and look for the most informative flip which is still pretty loose as well, it's D1 after all. I've got no strong town reads and no strong scum reads. Being a newbie game I suppose it's possible the Paco/LaLight pair have shown their hand that easily but it's a stretch. Paco omgusing me doesn't really sway me off the idea.
All that said, there's no one on my wouldn't lynch list today and probably wouldn't be unless we got someone to L-1 and they claimed a PR without a counter. Everyone is pretty null to me. RR gives me a faint town read.
Paco omgusing me doesn't really sway me off the idea.
So I wanted to get back to you about my bad feeling.
See, what I normally see about other players, when they get invested in a game as you are, is that half their cases or reads seem to come out of nowhere. Half the time they won't ever explain them. And the other half, even after they explain them, there's a good 40% the reasons will seem weird to me! Best case scenario, they just OMGUS people and bend themselves backwards to find a reason to find them scummy. This is only more true in your case, since your thought process and mine are very different, from what I remember playing with you or reading your games.
But here, you've jumped on the "hard claim town" and "overly helpful" cliche arguments for finding someone scummy (I was aware that opening with a town claim is considered scummy in this forum, I wanted to see who would jump on it). Super safe, super forgettable reasons and votes. I am wary of that.
Furthermore, now you give us this:Today, I hold the idea we will actually hit scum very loosely and look for the most informative flip which is still pretty loose as well, it's D1 after all.
The "I don't really think we will hit scum, so might as well lynch the most informative flip" is an easy way to get rid of helpful town without being accountable about it. Sure, I dislike lynching lurkers D1 for this very reason, but there's a difference between not wanting to lynch a lurker and what you are saying.
I am also uneasy about your soft-buddying Ash here and here:Basically I have one town read. That's...not great.
Interesting, I hate when I have a bunch of town reads all,over the place, especially early on. Also I am suspicious of people who read town on everyone except a couple people, it is an easy scum tactic to softly direct for mislynches.
vote: LaLight
Yeah, mr. A little too helpful Vote: LaLight
I think I've been rather conversational and trying to fill in the gaps where needed. I'm not sure what is not constructive about my posts. The game has actually moved along fairly well for D1. Once a flip or two is in things will pick up quite a bit because everyone will have their interpretation of what it means. Also, if we have any night action results from PRs it gets especially thick.
At this point it is about corralling the votes towards a lynch. I'm still currently happy with my vote where it is as I've seen nothing that convinces me it is in the wrong place nor that there might be a better place.
I'm pretty sure you and Ash have something else entirely going on at a higher level, but I want to believe it's meta-stuff rooted experience rather than malice. Besides, I think we've already agreed that if you two are scum together we're screwed anyway.
I don't like the corralling thing you mention, though... isn't the whole point of D1 was to get people talking and into the game? Otherwise, why would it be so long. We have zero information to go on, so we have to make people talk to each other.
Unofficial Vote Count
pingpongsam (1): pacovf
LaLight (1): pingpongsam
McGarnacle (3): SpaceAnemone, Roadrunner7671, LaLight
RoadRunner7671 (1): ashersky
Zigaton (1): McGarnacle
pacovf (1): Zigaton
Not Voting (1): J Reggie
Ultra-helpy LaLight is just town LaLight as far as I've seen elsewhere, so that's not a D1 option for me. I seem to have started the one and only actual wagon, so if you just wanted to kill people, you'd be on that one instead. @Ash and @Paco, what am I missing here?
Anyhow, since I have a busy day ahead;
confTown:
McGarnacle
Maybe town:
J Reggie
SA
Null (from light to dark):
pacovf
ashersky
zigaton
Scum:
RR
LaLight
So I've been doing a re-read, intending to make a whole reads list. The "scary three" of Ash, PPS and Paco are difficult, because I think they could just manipulate stuff too easily to be read by the rest of us. (Originally I'd put Paco in the same bunch as JR and RR, but I think he seems to know what's going on a lot more, so I'm counting him as super-experienced now).
I think LaLight is being absolutely town!LaLight, and McGarnacle is IC, which is nice. Are we giving Zigaton a D1 pass? It's not like it's possible for him to be the only scum out there anyway, and leaving a less-experienced scum for later probably makes a lot of sense.
So then I'm left with JR and RR, and I expected my reread to back up JR's case on RR, but it doesn't. JR is so absent early on that he'd posted more stuff before it had started than in its early pages. He voted for Paco because of his opening statement about not being Mafia (#68), then later made a point of saying it's something you'd only do as town (#96), and then goes on to say he's town a whole bunch of times, which is essentially the same thing as being not Mafia.
He's quite jumpy about votes, like saying he won't vote for Zigaton, then voting for him, then going back to RR, who he'd been voting for earlier. Actually, he seems to be quite against RR in general, when RR's actually not really said anything too suspicious (though it would be good if he'd interact more!). Do scums do fake hammers to look townie? Especially ones who know there are some newbie-but-learning people like me and LaLight who might then assume he's good? I think this might be like WIFOM, but I'm still generally not liking it.
Vote: J Reggie
I reread the whole day and it seems less happened than I thought did. I swear RR/LaLight are the scum team. There's entirely too much collaboration for there not to be a link. RR is obviously coaching at some points. LaLight is clearly taking direction right along with making sure to vote me.
Big town read on Paco (despite him leading the charge on me). He's playing entirely too forthright to be scum. If he's scum he is super good at it. I mean, I think he's also being super good at town.
Ash... ... he's been quite cryptic this game. I'm not reading scum but I'm not feeling real good about his refusals to respond to questions directed at him. At any rate, I think scum!ash would be more interested in answering questions to control the narrative.
J Reggie looks town as hell. Not sure why anyone has voted him at all except maybe for the fake hammer thing which was clearly town play to me.
SA and Ziggy are both cryptic to me in wholly different ways. SA is participatory and lucid and being a newbie with this much material posted I think scum!SA would have shown their hand somewhere and I haven't seen it. Ziggy, well, there's the language thing which I think is cutting both ways. He is entirely too cryptic for me to read one way or the other. Big fat null on him. If he is scum he certainly isn't controlling the game.
McGooGooGaJube is clearly dead town walking.
I intend to post soem response to Paco's analysis on me but feel very confident with Vote: RR which is L-1
That whole day ended without me having a chance to get on. Didn't access the forums all day. Was happy with the lynch, sad we were wrong.
RR's been having a rough go of it.
Doesn't change much for my reads. Still like PPS for scum. Probably partners with J Reggie?
For now, town on SA/McGarg.
Scum on PPS/Pacovf.
Scratch that last post with J Reggie. Need to re-read that one.
I think I've been rather conversational and trying to fill in the gaps where needed. I'm not sure what is not constructive about my posts. The game has actually moved along fairly well for D1. Once a flip or two is in things will pick up quite a bit because everyone will have their interpretation of what it means. Also, if we have any night action results from PRs it gets especially thick.
At this point it is about corralling the votes towards a lynch. I'm still currently happy with my vote where it is as I've seen nothing that convinces me it is in the wrong place nor that there might be a better place.
I'm pretty sure you and Ash have something else entirely going on at a higher level, but I want to believe it's meta-stuff rooted experience rather than malice. Besides, I think we've already agreed that if you two are scum together we're screwed anyway.
I don't like the corralling thing you mention, though... isn't the whole point of D1 was to get people talking and into the game? Otherwise, why would it be so long. We have zero information to go on, so we have to make people talk to each other.
Unofficial Vote Count
pingpongsam (1): pacovf
LaLight (1): pingpongsam
McGarnacle (3): SpaceAnemone, Roadrunner7671, LaLight
RoadRunner7671 (1): ashersky
Zigaton (1): McGarnacle
pacovf (1): Zigaton
Not Voting (1): J Reggie
Ultra-helpy LaLight is just town LaLight as far as I've seen elsewhere, so that's not a D1 option for me. I seem to have started the one and only actual wagon, so if you just wanted to kill people, you'd be on that one instead. @Ash and @Paco, what am I missing here?
Why didn't they ask PPS here?
So I'm trying to Wifom with PPS's apparent outing of ash. Maybe it's useless. Not where he claimed ash was his partner but where he said he had to be talked out of claiming cop. Ash or I would have been the ones to talk him out of that, and I'm not scum so that points to ash if that's true. The question is, did PPS think ADK this through in order to incriminate a vet when his partner was a newbie, or did he not think that saying that would narrow the lynch pool that much because there are usually more players who would talk him out of it.
I think we should lynch JReggie now. Then things will be clearer
So I'm trying to Wifom with PPS's apparent outing of ash. Maybe it's useless. Not where he claimed ash was his partner but where he said he had to be talked out of claiming cop. Ash or I would have been the ones to talk him out of that, and I'm not scum so that points to ash if that's true. The question is, did PPS think ADK this through in order to incriminate a vet when his partner was a newbie, or did he not think that saying that would narrow the lynch pool that much because there are usually more players who would talk him out of it.
I'd suspect paco over you for the cop thing.
But why are you trying to glean anything from scum!trolling?
PPS: Okay, at least he's saying things now...
Can someone compile a list of everyone PPS voted for? I'm on iPad and can't do anything useful.
Can someone compile a list of everyone PPS voted for? I'm on iPad and can't do anything useful.
Paco @ #69
LaLight @ #132
RR @ #445
He unvoted the post before voting for RR, but was on LaLight for all the intervening time.
A lot more interesting would be to see who tried to redirect away from PPS during D1. Losing scum D1 in a 2-player scum team is basically game over, so mafia would want to avoid that by all means.
I want to do a full reread, but won't really have time until Sunday...
I reread the whole day and it seems less happened than I thought did. I swear RR/LaLight are the scum team. There's entirely too much collaboration for there not to be a link. RR is obviously coaching at some points. LaLight is clearly taking direction right along with making sure to vote me.
Big town read on Paco (despite him leading the charge on me). He's playing entirely too forthright to be scum. If he's scum he is super good at it. I mean, I think he's also being super good at town.
Ash... ... he's been quite cryptic this game. I'm not reading scum but I'm not feeling real good about his refusals to respond to questions directed at him. At any rate, I think scum!ash would be more interested in answering questions to control the narrative.
J Reggie looks town as hell. Not sure why anyone has voted him at all except maybe for the fake hammer thing which was clearly town play to me.
SA and Ziggy are both cryptic to me in wholly different ways. SA is participatory and lucid and being a newbie with this much material posted I think scum!SA would have shown their hand somewhere and I haven't seen it. Ziggy, well, there's the language thing which I think is cutting both ways. He is entirely too cryptic for me to read one way or the other. Big fat null on him. If he is scum he certainly isn't controlling the game.
McGooGooGaJube is clearly dead town walking.
I intend to post soem response to Paco's analysis on me but feel very confident with Vote: RR which is L-1
Re-read PPS D1. McGarg comes off as strong town on re-read.
LaLight as well, unless he was super coached.
Paco seems most likely partner, followed by ash.
Re-read PPS D1. McGarg comes off as strong town on re-read.
LaLight as well, unless he was super coached.
Paco seems most likely partner, followed by ash.
Ftfy.
Re-read PPS D1. McGarg comes off as strong town on re-read.
LaLight as well, unless he was super coached.
Paco seems most likely partner, followed by ash.
Ftfy.
Well, of course you'd remove yourself from there. How do you feel about Paco?
Re-read PPS D1. McGarg comes off as strong town on re-read.
LaLight as well, unless he was super coached.
Paco seems most likely partner, followed by ash.
Ftfy.
Well, of course you'd remove yourself from there. How do you feel about Paco?
Actually he's my second biggest scum read. First is you. I don't like how you were rolefishing.
Re-read PPS D1. McGarg comes off as strong town on re-read.
LaLight as well, unless he was super coached.
Paco seems most likely partner, followed by ash.
Ftfy.
Well, of course you'd remove yourself from there. How do you feel about Paco?
Actually he's my second biggest scum read. First is you. I don't like how you were rolefishing.
I still don't know when I was rolefishing. PPS says it was when I thought whomever said the D2 comment was scum.
Are you agreeing with scum!PPS? Or is there some other thing you thought was rolefishing?
Re-read PPS D1. McGarg comes off as strong town on re-read.
LaLight as well, unless he was super coached.
Paco seems most likely partner, followed by ash.
Ftfy.
Well, of course you'd remove yourself from there. How do you feel about Paco?
Actually he's my second biggest scum read. First is you. I don't like how you were rolefishing.
I still don't know when I was rolefishing. PPS says it was when I thought whomever said the D2 comment was scum.
Are you agreeing with scum!PPS? Or is there some other thing you thought was rolefishing?
You were trying to get zigaton to claim. Whether you're scum or not that's what you were doing.
Re-read PPS D1. McGarg comes off as strong town on re-read.
LaLight as well, unless he was super coached.
Paco seems most likely partner, followed by J Reg.
Just checking, but you know that McG is dead, right? And SpaceAnemone is still alive.
I like SA rereads. They have clearly read my superb town performances, given the format matches.
I like SA rereads. They have clearly read my superb town performances, given the format matches.
I like them too. The only option left is JReggie.
I like SA rereads. They have clearly read my superb town performances, given the format matches.
I like them too. The only option left is JReggie.
Him or Paco.
The why D2 specifically thing is specifically not a rolefish.
I like SA rereads. They have clearly read my superb town performances, given the format matches.
I like them too. The only option left is JReggie.
Him or Paco.
I think I made reread on Paco from which it is clearly seen he is town. Reread it
I like SA rereads. They have clearly read my superb town performances, given the format matches.
I like them too. The only option left is JReggie.
Him or Paco.
I think I made reread on Paco from which it is clearly seen he is town. Reread it
You mean where you just quoted stuff? That's called IIoA.
I like SA rereads. They have clearly read my superb town performances, given the format matches.
I like them too. The only option left is JReggie.
Him or Paco.
I think I made reread on Paco from which it is clearly seen he is town. Reread it
You mean where you just quoted stuff? That's called IIoA.
The why D2 specifically thing is specifically not a rolefish.
I read his post to say "I'll know better in the future."
I was curious why he thought D2 -- made me think right away that he'd decided he wasn't the NK.
The why D2 specifically thing is specifically not a rolefish.
I read his post to say "I'll know better in the future."
I was curious why he thought D2 -- made me think right away that he'd decided he wasn't the NK.
Yeah, I totally believe this ::). You're the other scum.
The why D2 specifically thing is specifically not a rolefish.
I read his post to say "I'll know better in the future."
I was curious why he thought D2 -- made me think right away that he'd decided he wasn't the NK.
Yeah, I totally believe this ::). You're the other scum.
What's the scum motivation for pressing him on that post? If folks saw it as a softclaim, that's already all the info needed for scum, right?
I'm going to wait to hear what Paco makes (or avoids?) of the wifom thing before even trying to deal with it, because we've already got JR's take on it anyway.
I'm going to wait to hear what Paco makes (or avoids?) of the wifom thing before even trying to deal with it, because we've already got JR's take on it anyway.
I am not sure I understand, which WIFOM are you talking about? What PPS said after he got lynched? I think the wisest course of action would be to ignore. I agree with J Reggie that some of it might not be as WIFOMy as the rest, but still trying to psychoanalize someone over the internet seems dangerous at best.
Also agree that this day is going too slowly (partially due to the fact that there's about half as many people as during D1), but I am too busy to reread right now, and I don't really want to put my vote down before I do so.
Oh wow I'm at L-1. You guys should vote for ash if you're town and you want to win. Scum is probably already voting for me.
Oh wow I'm at L-1. You guys should vote for ash if you're town and you want to win. Scum is probably already voting for me.
L-1 with no hammer for awhile makes you more likely to be scum. Scum is always harder to lynch than town.
Self-gammering is completely anti-town, don't do it.
Oh wow I'm at L-1. You guys should vote for ash if you're town and you want to win. Scum is probably already voting for me.
L-1 with no hammer for awhile makes you more likely to be scum. Scum is always harder to lynch than town.
By that logic you're even more likely to be scum.
Oh wow I'm at L-1. You guys should vote for ash if you're town and you want to win. Scum is probably already voting for me.
L-1 with no hammer for awhile makes you more likely to be scum. Scum is always harder to lynch than town.
By that logic you're even more likely to be scum.
I'm not at L-1. It's hard to get me there because only scum really wants to lynch me. Townies either 1) have the correct gut feeling that I'm town or 2) are not sure enough to remove one of the last remaining veterans.
I'm not 100% sure it's you, but I feel strongly about it. And we're in good enough shape that we can be wrong today, lose a townie at night, and be in a fairly good position at LYLO to figure out who's the final scum.
Like, I'd almost put money on the idea that if we lynch you and are wrong, the final three are me, Paco, and LaLight.
Ash, if you're town, unvote now. Otherwise you will be lynched tomorrow.
Ash, if you're town, unvote now. Otherwise you will be lynched tomorrow.
Ash, if you're town, unvote now. Otherwise you will be lynched tomorrow.
Sounds like you think I'm town and you are worried scum will hammer.
Anyhow, since I have a busy day ahead;
confTown:
McGarnacle
Maybe town:
J Reggie
SA
Null (from light to dark):
pacovf
ashersky
zigaton
Scum:
RR
LaLight
When did I become a scum read for you, ashersky? You counted me town all yesterday except when I didn't play along with your parlor games. Now that I'm onto you your story changes?
You flat out fished Zigaton and J Reggie immediately called it out for what it was:
I am currently working on my reread right now (ugh), but I have a question:
J Reggie, have you ever encountered a fake hammer in any of your f.ds games?
I think your pass for LaLight is dangerous.
I am currently working on my reread right now (ugh), but I have a question:
J Reggie, have you ever encountered a fake hammer in any of your f.ds games?
Yes.
Well, I will wait a bit before hammering out of respect, even though I half expect scum!ashersky to self-hammer rather than letting me get in the final vote count.
Ha, ok! What were you?
I really did.
If I am scum, I just threw the game.
If I am town, I just handed you the scum.
I really did.
If I am scum, I just threw the game.
If I am town, I just handed you the scum.
If you threw the game, this is sad :(
How does self-hammering guarantee that you are right? I really wish you didn't do this sort of thing.
And I really wish people would just follow me blindly, ensuring victory.
But I guess neither of us can get what we want.
Heh. Sure. I mean, this will be the third time you are 100% convinced I am scum ("If I claim daycop, will you lynch him?", remember that one?), and yet I turn out to be town, so I think even you trust yourself too blindly.
Anyway, doesn't look like you want to be useful, so we'll have to wait for the new day and see.
You've basically claimed town already.
Hey J Reggie, you said you would do rereads today?
Paco on PPS:
#181 First reads list "PPS (jumping on easy votes, makes me feel uneasy)".
#212: "So I wanted to get back to you about my bad feeling." (post was much longer). Votes PPS.
#308: "Before I reread again, PPS or Zigaton would be ok lynches" (post was longer).
#309: "Also I seriously doubt that both PPS and ash are scum. Game would feel very different if they were."
#349: "I hope the reason I disapprove is obvious enough, if not, I will spell it out in due time."
#352: "You realize that this discussion is counterproductive to what J Reggie did, right?"
#354: "Sure. Still, I will stop posting for the time being." -- end of conversation between paco and PPS over JR's FH.
#381: "I am happy with my current vote on PPS." (part of a longer post)
#409 Mentions PPS as an example in taking down my JR case.
#417 Still puts PPS at the top of his lynch list.
#422: "You pressured me?" (part of a much longer response to PPS)
#423: "Consider my vote to be on any of PPS, RR or Lalight. Might vote for someone else if that is what it takes, but I hope it doesn't get to that."
#498: "I think PPS is just bad at reading setups. He might still be scum, but let's calm down."
#536: "Huh, so your partner is experienced?"
PPS on Paco:
69: "Seriously? Vote: pacovf" -- in response to Paco saying he's short on time.
#125: "I agree you aren't silverspawn but I only referenced him because he's a recent example and mod of this game." (post was longer). Example of why Paco's post would be scummy.
#188: "I suppose it's possible the Paco/LaLight pair have shown their hand that easily but it's a stretch. Paco omgusing me doesn't really sway me off the idea." (post was longer).
#217: "fair point, here. The rest is solid response, I like it." (post was longer) Response to Paco's defence of PPS's OMGUS aggusation.
#302: "Quite positive paco is town just because the wagon went way too quickly to L-1."
#348: "The question is, do you think what he did was scummy? Do you even know what he did?"
#350: "I am trying to figure out if it was a scummy thing to do." -- talking to Paco about JR's FH.
#353: "No, because if he didn't do it we wouldn't be having the discussion."
#394: PPS reads Paco as "null".
#412: "Looking at your breakdown I can't figure out why you favor RR over LaLight and especially me over the others. You still mad I pressured you?"
#445: "Big town read on Paco (despite him leading the charge on me)."
#446: Entire long response.
J Reggie on PPS:
#447: "I'm not sure about this recent stuff from PPS. I think I want RR to flip so we can analyze it." -- is this really the first time J Reggie mentions PPS?
#465: "Also if it's you and PPS, you will think it's you and PPS but not admit it. vote: ash"
#472: "Good catch! vote: PPS." -- in response to LaLight's catch of PPS's scumslip.
#478: "PPS is bad at reading setups but his reaction is scummy."
#538: "So PPS claiming ash is his partner is total Wifom, but being talked out of claiming cop... ash seems like one of the only ones who would do that besides me. And I'm IC so that means it's likely ash is PPS's partner."
#541: "Yeah, why not?" -- in response to PPS's twilight WIFOM question.
#542: "Agreed. We need to add this to the list of nicknames." -- about "pompomsan"
PPS on J Reggie:
#53: "I will vote McGarnacle tomorrow after we flip Vote: J Reggie for an obvious bus for cred."
#108: "No way. I see this is scum all the time." -- in response to JR's assertion that Paco's opening was townie.
#392: "The only other voters were SA and JR (who are the only ones I think appear to actually maybe be town around here)." (post was longer) -- I would feel worse about JR for this if I wasn't also mentioned!
#394: PPS reads JR as "maybe town".
#444: "Well, right off the bat I see I'm mixing up RR and JR"
#445: "J Reggie looks town as hell."
#446 Entire long response from PPS to Paco, but it includes a sentence on JR: "At the time I was simply trying to understand the purpose behind it to determine if JR was scum for doing it."
#450: "Pretty sure my vote was L-1 (which I called in bold)." Respose to JR mis-counting McGarnacle's vote.
#457: "POE means the ashersky/JR interaction around the soft-claim could have been a coordinated scum push pull tactic."
#468: "You flat out fished Zigaton and J Reggie immediately called it out for what it was" -- comment to Ash, but mentiones JR.
#539: "You don't seriously believe that, do you? You think I would openly out my partner in twilight?"
Good that I am not mafia, I don't really have the time to play scum right now.
Seriously? Vote: pacovf
Ok, I think pacovf's opening post is something you'd really only do as town.
No way. I see this is scum all the time. To wit, silverspawn's most recent Mafia world championship game he opened something similar and I immediately guessed him to be scum which is exactly how he turned out. The only thing I've seen scummiest this game is LaLight's unvote of Paco. Feeling pretty good about this read in light of that.
On mobile so responding to paco's multiquote post.
I agree you aren't silverspawn but I only referenced him because he's a recent example and mod of this game. This opener of hard claiming town comes more often than not from scum. So, if you are scum you are just like every scum who is or has been.
Argh.. really sorry for not being present today :-( I've had a big concert this evening, and it went amazingly, but I've just come home from the afterparty and it's too late to do thinking... though I'd have a chance to phonepost between the rehearsals and concert, but I was rushed off my feet. I'll definitely make time to do proper reading tomorrow :-)
Being at a concert... Sounds scummy to me! :)
This joke is scummy. Plus emoticon.
Oh, not you as well!! Silver seemed to take issue with my use of smilies right from my first game :-( For some of us, they're just useful forms of written communication, and they don't mean anything at all about our scumminess or lack thereof!
Scum always says that.
Today, I hold the idea we will actually hit scum very loosely and look for the most informative flip which is still pretty loose as well, it's D1 after all. I've got no strong town reads and no strong scum reads. Being a newbie game I suppose it's possible the Paco/LaLight pair have shown their hand that easily but it's a stretch. Paco omgusing me doesn't really sway me off the idea.
Note: 5 out of 8 players have expressed an interest in lynching me, so it's kinda hard for me to vote for someone without OMGUSing them...
fair point, here.
The rest is solid response, I like it. I don't agree with it too much seeing as I know my own alignment to be contrary to your implications but I can't really fault your line of reasoning, either. I'll be the first to admit that I suffer greatly from reading those who implicate me as town as being town themselves. I was trying to avoid this with ash and even considered voting him over it because he knows this about me. I am actually pretty impressed you highlighted buddying behavior of mine when I would have thought I had successfully avoided it.
QuoteI don't like the corralling thing you mention, though... isn't the whole point of D1 was to get people talking and into the game? Otherwise, why would it be so long. We have zero information to go on, so we have to make people talk to each other.Yeah, we need to talk and all but the real deal is the day ends and it would be really dumb to go no lynch so face the facts; at some point we have to agree on a lynch. If it's going to be a mislynch usually scum is doing the corralling so scum would be uncomfortable with that notion being brought out so explicitly. Expect a scum lynch to be fairly hard to come by since they are very unlikely to help in that. Quite positive paco is town just because the wagon went way too quickly to L-1. I suppose there could be some early bussing that got out of hand (so LaLight is a prime suspect, there) or it just happened like that and somebody got scared of being on the tail end of it and forcing it through (oh, look, LaLight is the bad guy, again).
What are these facts?For example?
P.S. Specially for newbie :)
I'm not sure I follow. The fact I was referring to was the one about the day will end and if we don't lynch somebody we will just start D2 with one of us dead and maybe some worthwhile night action results if we are lucky but more likely we will be in no better position than now. I brought this up because the inevitability of avoiding the above situation is getting a lynch vote in. SA said they didn't like the notion of corralling votes but that is exactly what will have to happen.
vote: McGarnacle
I disapprove. Especially in a newbie game.
The question is, do you think what he did was scummy? Do you even know what he did?
No. Yes. I hope the reason I disapprove is obvious enough, if not, I will spell it out in due time.
I am trying to figure out if it was a scummy thing to do. McGarnacle was already L-1 so town!JReg wasn't forcing a claim unless he was hoping scum!McG would out himself in "twilight". I don't see a scum motivation for it at all. So, pretty null on it. When you say no do you mean null or town?
In fact, looking at the McGarnacle wagon I see my prime suspect LaLight and then RR both move their vote directly to me once they forced a claim out of a townie. The only other voters were SA and JR (who are the only ones I think appear to actually maybe be town around here).
I'll go with my D1 meta and call a scum team of RR/LaLight. My vote stands.
Well, right off the bat I see I'm mixing up RR and JR. No, RR is a top scum read for me. There is early partnering behavior between him and LaLight. Feeling much better about the way this is shaping up already. Still a whole bunch of reread to do but for now Unvote.
Big town read on Paco (despite him leading the charge on me). He's playing entirely too forthright to be scum. If he's scum he is super good at it. I mean, I think he's also being super good at town.
...
SA and Ziggy are both cryptic to me in wholly different ways. SA is participatory and lucid and being a newbie with this much material posted I think scum!SA would have shown their hand somewhere and I haven't seen it. Ziggy, well, there's the language thing which I think is cutting both ways. He is entirely too cryptic for me to read one way or the other. Big fat null on him. If he is scum he certainly isn't controlling the game.
You pressured me?
Yes, I feel i was instrumental in your early wagon. At the very least this is what I was referring to.QuoteBoth RR and you feel a bit off from your usual playstyle. Of course once you point that out it becomes a huge meta ball, but still. I prefer you slightly over RR because you are a bit scarier,RR feels off because he is scum and he's not terribly good at it. RR is obvtown when he's town. Me, i don't realyl have a usual play style. if anything, I'd say I am far easier top spot as scum than as town. As town I feel safer playing loose and attracting attention because if I go down there's good interaction around me to analyze. I think we've only played one game together before and I seem to recall being scum that game? If that is the case then me seeming off would because I'm not scum now.Quotebecause trying to defuse the fake hammer doesn't look good (especially when you say it's ok because it created interactions or whatever),The fake hammer thing was going to get some one in hot water regardless. What I mewan is there was no probability of snaring scum but 10-0% probability someone was going to get a wagon on them just for looking at it. At the time I was simply trying to understand the purpose behind it to determine if JR was scum for doing it. I'm not entirely sure I've seen a fake hammer in any of my games before so i was processing the import of it in real time. Had I know what they represent prior tot hat point I would have probably stayed entirely silent. Anyhow, i stand by the fact that we now have a wagon on me because of it so clearly it created valuable interaction. Unfortunately one fo my biggest town reads ran with that so if I die over it isn't likely to bring suspicion on any scum.Quoteand because lynching lurkers D1 is a double edged sword. It's not a super huge preference mind you.I'm not seeing Zigaton as a lurker (but I'm calibrated by the likes of chairs and that other guy who posts so little I can't even remember his name)QuoteI prefer either of you to Lalight because he's a newbie, which is always harder to predict.At least you are honest about wanting to lynch out the vets first which is ironic considering you are one of them moreso than several others.
Reread SA and feel good about them being town. I know they started the wagon on McGabber but got off immediately post-claim; and also ended up on RR but, hey look, Ashersky/JR got that one rolling.I don't understand how it happened. But why do you lynching RR?
Not saying anything is a really good way for scum to hide. Also, Ash pointed out that one of the relatively few posts RR was scummy a while back (post #290). Now he's asserting he's the scummiest person out there, presumably because he's been so lurky here, and yet usually if he's town he's more obviously helpful (he's been in the other games I've played too).
Getting a bit meta, Ash really doesn't seem to say much of anything at all here -- he's mostly acting and voting without a lot of commentary, unlike the other two oldies -- but the other two seem to respect him and not read that as suspicious, which gives me a bit more confidence in what he's saying. That's one reason I don't want to lose the super-experienced players too quickly, because second-hand meta-reading seems to be something we might be able to pull off to help us :-)
Vote: RR
This looks perplexing to me, though. Seems the vote should have been on ashersky unless you're saying you sheeped ashersky hoping he was town? Can you elucidate your position on the RR wagon?
Still want to see if McGladiator got results before I place a vote. If I understand his role correctly his target lights up if they did some targeting or were targeted themselves. Here's hoping he targeted ashersky. I would also hope if Ziggy targeted ash it would still light up? Silver, will the Motion Detector still detect on the target or actions of the Cop who got NK'd?
Of course, the setup is now known to have a Scum RB and it makes good sense to have killed Ziggy and blocked the other known PR.
Look, I had to be talked out of coming straight out fake claiming cop so I could force a counter claim and out the cop and maybe even get him mislynched to boot, so this was a disappointing exit.
So PPS claiming ash is his partner is total Wifom, but being talked out of claiming cop... ash seems like one of the only ones who would do that besides me. And I'm IC so that means it's likely ash is PPS's partner.
You don't seriously believe that, do you? You think I would openly out my partner in twilight?
I wanted to reread tonight, but my day didn't quite go as I hoped. I will do my best tomorrow, because I will be V/LA Saturday to Monday included...
I wanted to reread tonight, but my day didn't quite go as I hoped. I will do my best tomorrow, because I will be V/LA Saturday to Monday included...
Yeah, I'm also going to be pretty much vla over the weekend. I'll try and finish my rereads today.
Actually fairly devoid of content all D1...? Only one random vote for most of the day. Kind of actilurking.I was trying so hard to get people talking to each other, because I really didn't know how else to make the game work! I have a hard time speaking up in games where everyone knows each other (see BSG and the other still-running game), so it was pretty exciting to have one where I wasn't the odd one out. The other game I managed to interact so much was Olympics, and there, my newbie status and enthusiasm made me the N1 kill, which was not a fun introduction to forum mafia, especially since it's my only PR to date!
Flimsy case on J Reggie.I was trying! I still think he's more likely to be scum than you are, and even Ash was willing to vote for him at one point (before deciding you are scummier!), so I don't think my feeling suspicious of him was as much of a stupid move as you're making out, regardless of whether I'm able to articulate it well enough for a strong case.
Does vote PPS fairly early, but asks if they should unvote when noticing the L-1, then unvotes when PPS defends himselfIf you look at the timing of the posts there, you might see that my "okay, unvote" was in response to your post saying we need to calm down -- the PPS one just came along only seconds before mine, and wasn't one I'd read before reacting. Yes, I clicked through the red warning text, but that's because everything was just going really fast. I'd already said in-game that I was distracted cooking dinner, so I figured that wasn't a big deal... especially after you'd just accused me of almost doing a derp-hammer!
Starts D4 with a comment about nightkill (don't usually like this sort of arguments but still)It seemed like a relevant comment on the game when there are so few of us left! And it would have been much less stressful on me if LaLight was the one having to puzzle it out between the two of you!
Also people have mentioned how PPS was avoiding talking about or to SA until very late.Go back to #196 and see what a pleasant person he sounded like to interact with. Then the exchange at #222/#239... I think it's enough to explain things!
despite the OVERWHELMING towniness of all their posts... I actually want to lynch SpaceAnemone todayThis is going to be a shitty way to end the game :-( Can you go and look at the two places I've already been mislynched and see how very similar the situations are? In BSG it was lylo too, and I got called scummy basically for defending myself, or being quiet at the wrong time, or for wanting more experienced town people around who I could trust and meta-read. Honestly, go and read those and then tell me you still think there's a chance I'm scum here!
The main thing is, your thought process is very very townie, but that might just be the way you think. When I get down to concrete actions, JReggie looks better than you. Have you already been mafia here?
-- having opened with an 89% serious vote on Ash, he gets quite criptic about his reasons, and never does go back and explain quite what he was up to.Will you explain 89% thing?
Eventually, yes, but first I would like to know who I am playing with (hence my newbie question). It helps understand everybody's reactions. I am particularly wary of experienced players that I've never played with before.
-- does this read like it could be a set-up conversation between scum partners, before they got into the adversarial stuff?No way. I see this is scum all the time. To wit, silverspawn's most recent Mafia world championship game he opened something similar and I immediately guessed him to be scum which is exactly how he turned out.
Well, silverspawn and I are different people, I think? Otherwise I wouldn't be able to play this game. Because I would also be modding it. And I would know everybody's alignment. And that would be cheating.
-- this one just makes me uneasy because he's clearly playing a complicated game whatever level you read it on: he's saying he's town opening scummily, but saying it to someone we now know to be scum, but he could easily also be scum himself saying it to cover any minor scummy stuff he does while trying to cover up his motives.Paco omgusing me doesn't really sway me off the idea.
So I wanted to get back to you about my bad feeling.
See, what I normally see about other players, when they get invested in a game as you are, is that half their cases or reads seem to come out of nowhere. Half the time they won't ever explain them. And the other half, even after they explain them, there's a good 40% the reasons will seem weird to me! Best case scenario, they just OMGUS people and bend themselves backwards to find a reason to find them scummy. This is only more true in your case, since your thought process and mine are very different, from what I remember playing with you or reading your games.
But here, you've jumped on the "hard claim town" and "overly helpful" cliche arguments for finding someone scummy (I was aware that opening with a town claim is considered scummy in this forum, I wanted to see who would jump on it). Super safe, super forgettable reasons and votes. I am wary of that.
We've still got what 5 days till the end of the day, so we don't need to rush for a lynch quite yet. Before I reread again, PPS or Zigaton would be ok lynches, so would be McGarnacle and Lalight, and I am promoting J Reggie to lynchable by virtue of me not remembering if h's done anything memorable yet. RR and McG would be the main targets of a reread, I think.-- I distinctly remember in one of the other games people complaining about anyone who tries to convince town that we've got plenty of time left, because the risk of missing a deadline and not getting a lynch is bad. PPS reiterates the same point 11 posts later!
After the last vote is cast, you are guaranteed to die, and you get to speak until the mod sees that last vote and closes the thread.-- Is asking other people to make cases that he can then jump on a scum tactic? Especially when at that point he's voting for PPS.
I haven't been following the game super closely the last two days, can someone remind me why we think McG is scum?
No, it looks like it wasn't.-- One of Paco's posts urging things to slow down when the PPS lynch was in progress.
I am fairly busy, and need time to mull over the recent developments, but please don't go lynching people without taking the time to think things through?
I think PPS is just bad at reading setups. He might still be scum, but let's calm down.-- and the "let's calm down" part that ended up making me unvote, which he then managed to scumread me for later on.
Mafia either have a roleblocker or an investigation inmune scum, so McG wouldn't have given us any new info other than telling us which setup we have, which is 100% irrelevant now. So whatevs.
-- This is one useful piece of particularly useful evidence that Ash left us with.Heh. Sure. I mean, this will be the third time you are 100% convinced I am scum ("If I claim daycop, will you lynch him?", remember that one?), and yet I turn out to be town, so I think even you trust yourself too blindly.
Anyway, doesn't look like you want to be useful, so we'll have to wait for the new day and see.
Scumslip bolded for emphasis. Assuming a new day means you know I'm town.
Argh, I was hoping it would be Lalight, now I need to reread SA... I mean, I don't expect to find them scummier than J Reggie, but well they were considered IC by everybody so they shouldn't have survived until now and now I am paranoid.-- This could easily be a WIFOM thing with the NK if Paco is scum, especially since LL and I were both townread, and LL was the one voting for JR yesterday. I think it's safe to say that it's usually possible to make a scum case on anyone if you're feeling paranoid, because I feel like I can believe either JR or Paco can come off as scummy based on my re-reads to date.
Wait, is the deadline Tuesday? If so I'll have time to do comprehensive posts for SpaceAnemone and Paco.
Been a while since I've been in a game. Can the newbies tell us how newbie they are?
Good that I am not mafia, I don't really have the time to play scum right now.
Oh and vote: Ashersky. 89% serious vote
No need to thank me for trying to shorten RVS (random voting stage)
I like you already.
Will check later, when I am done doing the things I am procrastinating on right now.
This joke is scummy. Plus emoticon.
Not superstrong, but I guess no D1 case ever is...
In the mean time, vote: Zigaton. Only posted twice, and both posts raised red flags for me.
I think it's time for a read list:
Would lynch:
Zigaton (as far as I am concerned, his second post was super scummy. Might be me OMGUSing, I am hoping it isn't)
PPS (jumping on easy votes, makes me feel uneasy)
Lalight (has done some things typically attributed to scum)
McGarnacle (don't feel very strongly about this one, but will vote if necessary)
Would not lynch:
SpaceAnemone (strongish townread)
RoadRunner (mild townread)
No opinion:
ashersky (not as confrontational as he usually is, dunno how to feel about that)
J Reggie (barely present)
-snip-
Actually, I think I am going to put my vote where my words are, vote: PPS.
Note: 5 out of 8 players have expressed an interest in lynching me, so it's kinda hard for me to vote for someone without OMGUSing them...
He only played in one game, per the records, and he was town (and won).
Actually, I've played in 4 games, always VT (sort of, for RMM21). I've been in NM6, M50, RMM21, and M64, in that order. Even got MVP in NM6, in a rather embarrassing way </humblebrag>
The recent exchange between Lalight and McGarnacle is... interesting...
Would definitely like to hear more from RR and J Reggie.
Zigaton, do you have a basic idea of what's going on? Do you have any questions? If you have no idea of what's going on, post a short list of what you think of every player. It doesn't necessarily have to be based on facts, just the general feel you get from each player is enough, even if you can't quite explain them.
Fair enough. What's your position on the other players? Am I the only one you would like to see lynched?
Also I seriously doubt that both PPS and ash are scum. Game would feel very different if they were.
Well, let's not lose momentum here either. I am happy with my current vote on PPS. Zigaton would be an ok lynch too, but I wouldn't be unhappy to let him be until D2, where we will also have two flips to better understand whatever his deal is. Need to reread Lalight and RR to see how happy I would be about their lynches, especially after whatever has been going the past few days and that I haven't had the time to analyze yet (notably McG's claim).
I won't lynch SA or J Reggie today (and probably never), McG is presumably town, and I think I like what I've seen from ash today, so he's off the list for now.
Overall I think we're having a solid D1.
Obviously I don't know what ash thinks, but I can tell you this:So then I'm left with JR and RR, and I expected my reread to back up JR's case on RR, but it doesn't. JR is so absent early on that he'd posted more stuff before it had started than in its early pages. He voted for Paco because of his opening statement about not being Mafia (#68), then later made a point of saying it's something you'd only do as town (#96), and then goes on to say he's town a whole bunch of times, which is essentially the same thing as being not Mafia.
This is not very strong. In the early stages of the game, people usually vote randomly, to try to get real interactions started. Once things start to develop, people get more serious about their votes. So him voting for me in RVS (Random Voting Stage), then saying that he actually thinks I am town and unvoting is not scummy at all.QuoteHe's quite jumpy about votes, like saying he won't vote for Zigaton, then voting for him, then going back to RR, who he'd been voting for earlier. Actually, he seems to be quite against RR in general, when RR's actually not really said anything too suspicious (though it would be good if he'd interact more!).
I think he said that he wanted to give a newbie D1 pass to Zigaton, which doesn't say much about what his position on him is. When other people disagreed about newbie D1 passes, he started voting for him.
Focussing on a player can be a townie thing to do. Townies often get tunnel vision on a player. Of course, mafia can fake this, which helps make them less accountable if somebody else gets lynched, but they are sort of giving up their vote.
Basically, these two arguments are weak-ish, because they are not much more likely to come from scum than from mafia. If, say, we lynched PPS and he flipped scum, then you could say that J Reggie focussing on RR so much right now would be scummy, because he would be trying to deflect from a PPS lynch. But with the information we have right now, I don't see it.QuoteDo scums do fake hammers to look townie? Especially ones who know there are some newbie-but-learning people like me and LaLight who might then assume he's good? I think this might be like WIFOM, but I'm still generally not liking it.
This is the part that makes it particularly unlikely that J Reggie is scum. We now know that McG is town. Let's assume that J Reggie is scum (noted scum!JR), and McG is a Vanilla Townie (noted VT!McG), because back then we didn't know McG had a PR (Power Role).
So scum!JR sees McG at L-1, with town being generably agreeable to lynching him. It wasn't guaranteed to happen, but it looked likely. scum!JR can do nothing at all, or insist on how scummy McG is. Result: D1 ends with a mislynch. Or we can fake-hammer him. Two possible results, assuming McG actually believes he is lynched: he reacts in a more or less neutral way, so we are back to L-1 without much difference. Or, much more likely, he reacts in an overwhelmingly townie way, and now nobody wants to lynch him, basically giving town a confirmed town player for no reason at all. The odds of McG reacting in a scummy way are basically zero, since he is town and believes he is lynched.
If you are scum, fake hammering a townie serves no purpose at all, and more likely than not will hurt your position, when you were already about to mislynch a townie. Considering that J Reggie is a more experienced player, the chances that he did this are close to zero. So that's why ash, PPS and me think he is town.
You pressured me?
Both RR and you feel a bit off from your usual playstyle. Of course once you point that out it becomes a huge meta ball, but still. I prefer you slightly over RR because you are a bit scarier, because trying to defuse the fake hammer doesn't look good (especially when you say it's ok because it created interactions or whatever), and because lynching lurkers D1 is a double edged sword. It's not a super huge preference mind you.
I prefer either of you to Lalight because he's a newbie, which is always harder to predict. Also, for what it's worth, SA insists this is normal!Lalight.
Nevertheless, either of these (or Zigaton) would make for a good lynch.
...please tell me that wasn't ANOTHER derphammer
Well this definitely feels a lot more like ash. Damn, he might just have gotten MVP here. Curse you, I was going for it. I'll have to find scum tomorrow then.
But I should have noticed your play was similar to my first scum game.
Nah, you've won already, don't worry. You got us all fooled until the very end, you couldn't have played it any better.
Also, ash... Third time you do silly things because you are 120% convinced I am scum, even though I am town. Please keep it in mind next time we play.
Wow, I'll never trust SA again :).
Wow, I'll never trust SA again :).
Trust no one.
when PPS told in Speccy, that his partner will get MVP in any case, I knewit's SA. Perfect game, Space! I even feel glad for scum to win in this case :))