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[silverspawn]

Welcome to Newbie Mafia 8: Time Loops!

This is a semi-open setup designed to be a staring point into mafia. It has a lot of potential roles (which are common on this site), but no special rules or interactions, and the randomizing process is simple. If you want to play, make a post saying /in (in this thread). Make sure to skim over the rules (link) and sign our civility pledge (link) first. But if you are completely new to the game, read this (link) first, it is a better explanation of what this is all about. Any additional information which you need should be included in the second post that explains the setup. If you have any questions, ask away.

Player List:

• LaLight – Vanilla Townie (Died Night 3)
• McGarnacle – Motion Detector (Died Night 2)
• pingpongsam – Mafia Goon (Lynched Day 2)
• SpaceAnemone – Roleblocker (Wins!)
• Roadrunner7671 – Vanilla Townie (Lynched Day 1)
• ashersky – Vanilla Townie (Lynched Day 3)
• Zigaton – Vanilla Cop (Died Night 1)
• J Reggie – Vanilla Townie (Endgamed)
• pacovf – Vanilla Townie (Lynched Day 4)

Tagged: Haddock, gkrieg13, mail-mi, Joseph2303, Calamitas

Navigation:
Day 1 start
Day 2 start
Day 3 start
Day 4 start
Game End

Further Rules:

• Game days will last 7 days. Nights will last 1 day.
• You may vote: nolynch. If a majority of these votes is reached, a no-lynch will occur.
• Night Actions may be submitted and changed up until an hour before the next day starts.
• Extreme inactivity or any violation of rules will be dealt with based on my judgment.
• Mod posts will be blue. Similar formatting should be avoided by players.
• After a succession of No-Lynch -> No-Kill -> No-Lynch, mafia may not no-kill
• Players may not quote anything from the game elsewhere while the game is still ongoing. "The game" means this thread, all related PMs, and the Mafia QT.

[silverspawn]

The Setup

This game consists of 9 players:
5 Town players without Role (Vanilla Townies)
1 Mafia player without Role (Mafia Goon)

Plus, 2 Town Power Roles and 1 Mafia Power Role which are not known pre-game. For this, a number between 1 and 12 is being randomized. The Role that is at that number in the above image, plus its two neighbors, are being included. Mafia will be informed which roles those are.

Example:
If 12 is randomized, the roles at 11 (Motion Detector), 12 (Roleblocker), and 1 (Weak Visitor) are being chosen. Red Roles are Mafia-Aligned, Green Roles are Town-Aligned.

For those who have problems with images, here the text version:

01 - Weak Visitor
02 - Jailkeeper
03 - 1-Shot Strongman
04 - Babysitter
05 - Doctor
06 - Rolecop
07 - Watcher
08 - Tracker
09 - 2-Shot Investigation Immune
10 - Vanilla Cop
11 - Motion Detector
12 - Roleblocker

Explanation of Roles:
The following Roles are active, targeted, and work at Night. This means, if you are one of them, then at night, you may target a player, and depending on which Role you have, something happens. None of the roles are compulsive, so you can always choose not to use them. Let us assume you do use them and target Haddock. If you are a

Tracker: you follow Haddock around that night, learn whom he targeted with his role (if any). You will receive a PM telling you a list of names at the start of the following day.

Doctor: you put Haddock in a hospital bed that night, thus (somehow) protecting him from murderers, and you thought a bunker would be better for that! If mafia tries to kill him that night, nothing happens.

Watcher: you climb into a tree next to Haddock's house that night, keeping a close look on the entrance, thus learning who targeted him that night. You will receive a PM telling you a list of names at the start of the following day.

Vanilla Cop: you perform some tests on Haddock, learning whether he is a Vanilla Townie (a town player without Role). You will receive a PM telling you "Haddock is a Vanilla Townie" or "Haddock is not a Vanilla Townie" at the start of the following day.

Babysitter: you transform Haddock into a Baby for the night, protecting him but also binding his fate on yours. If Mafia tries to kill him, nothing happens. But if mafia kills you, both you and Haddock die.

Weak Visitor: you freely walk towards Haddock, politely asking him if you could sleep at his house for the night. If Haddock is Mafia-Aligned, you will die, else nothing happens.

Motion Detector: you lay out a highly advanced field of laser-sensors across Haddock's home that night, telling you whether there was motion (he targeted someone, someone targeted him, or both) or no motion. You will receive a PM telling you "Motion detected" or "No Motion detected" at the start of the following day.

Roleblocker: you put up a network of invisible webs around Haddock's home that night, stopping any action he performs without him knowing. If Haddock tries to perform any action, nothing happens. This will cause Vanilla Cop and Motion Detector to get a special PM stating "No Result".

Jailkeeper: you put Haddock into prison for the night, taking away his freedom but also protecting him. If Mafia tries to kill him, nothing happens, and if Haddock tries to perform any action, nothing happens. Thus, this action is a combination of Doctor and Roleblocker.

Rolecop: You sneak into Haddock's home to steal some DNA, performing tests on it that tell you exactly which role he is born as. You will receive a PM saying "No Role" (if he is a Vanilla Townie or Mafia Goon), or the name of any of the above or below if he is that Role.

The last two roles are not targeted. That means you simply choose to activate them, still at night, without specifying on whom.

Strongman: You enter god-mode for the night, breaking through every role that would interfere with what you choose to do. If you want to kill Haddock but he is being doctored, he still dies.

Investigation Immune: You put up a clever disguise, causing all investigative actions on you to fail. You will appear as "Vanilla Townie" to the Vanilla Cop, you will return "No Motion" to the Motion Detector, and will not be seen by either Tracker of Watcher. (Interaction with other roles isn't specified because they can't appear together in this setup).


Mafia's Night-Kill is treated as an action for this purpose. For example, if Haddock kills ashersky and you track him, you learn that Haddock targeted ashersky. If Haddock tries to kill ashersky and you put Haddock in jail, then the kill fails and ashersky lives, etc.

X-Shot before a role means that you can only use it X times. Thus, if you are 2-Shot Investigation Immune, you can only trigger your immunity twice during the game.

[LaLight]

/in

Thank you for the effort!

[pingpongsam]

I am very happy to see that Haddock was targeted in the example provided.

Are experienced players desirable in this game or strictly newbs?

[silverspawn]

I am very happy to see that Haddock was targeted in the example provided.

Are experienced players desirable in this game or strictly newbs?

I'd say noobs have priority but we won't find 9, so we can have vets, too.

[McGarnacle]

/in

This looks fun, but I feel I'll have to ask a lot of questions as we go along  .

[LaLight]

/in

This looks fun, but I feel I'll have to ask a lot of questions as we go along  .

That's what this game is for =))

[McGarnacle]

How do you keep non-scum from seeing who the mafia vote to lynch during their night phase?

[LaLight]

How do you keep non-scum from seeing who the mafia vote to lynch during their night phase?

QT's are used.
Mafia has their own QT where they can talk only during the night.
Example: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/jYYeD6SThMvL

[McGarnacle]

How do you keep non-scum from seeing who the mafia vote to lynch during their night phase?

QT's are used.
Mafia has their own QT where they can talk only during the night.
Example: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/jYYeD6SThMvL

Great, thanks!

[LaLight]

Good luck! =)

[pingpongsam]

/in

I like playing with noobs.

[SpaceAnemone]

/in
I'm still a noob :-)

(You know there's an off-by-one error between the text and image, right?)

[Haddock]

/Comod?
Since I'm already being guinea-pigged.

[silverspawn]

(You know there's an off-by-one error between the text and image, right?)

I did not. I'll fix it. Although technically it is the same setup.

[silverspawn]

/Comod?
Since I'm already being guinea-pigged.

thanks, but ... not really necessary, to be honest. don't want you to go through the effort of doing vote counts by hand when I've already automated it.

but you can play if you want.

[Haddock]

/Comod?
Since I'm already being guinea-pigged.

thanks, but ... not really necessary, to be honest. don't want you to go through the effort of doing vote counts by hand when I've already automated it.

but you can play if you want.

I mostly just wanted the spoilers
But sure.
Playing might not be the best, lot on my plate at the moment (not to mention that SA and I should probably avoid being in the same game).
But if you're looking for some more experienced players I can be one of them if you can't find enough other such (unlikely!).

[silverspawn]

you can have spoilers all you want. I can share the Mod QT without sharing responsibility.

[SpaceAnemone]

Example:
If 12 is randomized, the roles at 11 (Vanilla Cop), 12 (Follower), and 1 (Roleblocker) are being chosen.

This bit might want to be changed to:
 
Example:
If 12 is randomized, the roles at 11 (Motion Detector), 12 (Roleblocker), and 1 (Weak Visitor) are  chosen.

(Or whatever matches your current generator setup).

[SpaceAnemone]

(not to mention that SA and I should probably avoid being in the same game).

But you look so happy when you're an evil Scummy McScumface! :-P

[LaLight]

well, guys. Some veterans can participate here: the most impotrtant thing is that roles are good for newbies, mod will be friendly and will tell everything in details and that's all. Who will participate will not matter so hard I think we just have to made sure there is not like 1-2 newbies but at least half.

[silverspawn]

This bit might want to be changed to: [snip]

Ah, yes. Thanks again.

well, guys. Some veterans can participate here: the most impotrtant thing is that roles are good for newbies, mod will be friendly and will tell everything in details and that's all. Who will participate will not matter so hard I think we just have to made sure there is not like 1-2 newbies but at least half.

yeah, it'd be nice to have some more completely new players. . .

[Roadrunner7671]

/in

I'll obviously leave if lots of noobs want to play, but I like playing with noobs too.

[mail-mi]

This bit might want to be changed to: [snip]

Ah, yes. Thanks again.

well, guys. Some veterans can participate here: the most impotrtant thing is that roles are good for newbies, mod will be friendly and will tell everything in details and that's all. Who will participate will not matter so hard I think we just have to made sure there is not like 1-2 newbies but at least half.

yeah, it'd be nice to have some more completely new players. . .

Post it in the Introducing Forum Mafia thread!

better yet, have iguana Forum Mafia edit it into the OP!

[silverspawn]

I did the former.

But idk who Forum Mafia is, so I can't do the latter 

[LaLight]

Guuuuuuyz I really want this to start! Anyone? Mafia is interesting and good, I was afraid to play for some like 2 years, but then realised it's worth it! At least you can try! There aren't many newbie games around.

[ashersky]

/in

[iguanaiguana]

Next time I'm dead somehow, maybe I will come back to life in this game ; )

[silverspawn]

/in

Nice that we get some new players! Have you checked out the Forum Games?

[pingpongsam]

PPS and ashersky in a newbie game. If we both draw scum its game over. Otherwise there's this huge meta ball rolling around that no one else gets at all. It will be like 2 games in one. I am excited.

[pacovf]

How many newbies are around?

[silverspawn]

How many newbies are around?

currently 1,5

or 2,5 if you count ashersky

[Roadrunner7671]

I counted 3.5

[LaLight]

It's McGarnacle, me and sa, so 3

[ashersky]

/in

Nice that we get some new players! Have you checked out the Forum Games?

I did!  That's how I found this thread.

[Joseph2302]

/in

Nice that we get some new players! Have you checked out the Forum Games?

I did!  That's how I found this thread.

Why is ash playing newbie mafia?

[LaLight]

/in

Nice that we get some new players! Have you checked out the Forum Games?

I did!  That's how I found this thread.

Why is ash playing newbie mafia?

It seems we don't have enough newbis to play, so it'll be okay to have some veteran players

[Zigaton]

/in
Hi)

[LaLight]

ok guyz, now we have 4 newbs in here! Maybe 2 more vets and we are fine? Can anybody bring his friends?

[pingpongsam]

Vets are good to have. Think of geese flying in formation. You will see some wandering here and there but there are some veteran geese stationed at key intervals that show the newbs how to hold formation.

[LaLight]

This is all fine, but thinking about odds when you and Ash are scums...

[J Reggie]

This is all fine, but thinking about odds when you and Ash are scums...

Maybe ss would reroll the setup if that happened.

[J Reggie]

I might join this game, I'm going to ask a few of my dominion friends again if they want to play mafia.

[silverspawn]

This is all fine, but thinking about odds when you and Ash are scums...

Maybe ss would reroll the setup if that happened.

???

That would be a betrayal of my supposed integrity and a strain on the purity of chance. I would absolutely not re-roll.

[LaLight]

This is all fine, but thinking about odds when you and Ash are scums...

Maybe ss would reroll the setup if that happened.

Terrible idea

[silverspawn]

I think, if we have at least one vet among town, that's actually winnable. new players tend to overpowered as town and underpowered as scum because they're worse at hiding.

[LaLight]

I think, if we have at least one vet among town, that's actually winnable. new players tend to overpowered as town and underpowered as scum because they're worse at hiding.

That is true

[J Reggie]

This is all fine, but thinking about odds when you and Ash are scums...

Maybe ss would reroll the setup if that happened.

???

That would be a betrayal of my supposed integrity and a strain on the purity of chance. I would absolutely not re-roll.

Sorry, that was meant as a joke. I should have added a smiley to make that clear.

[silverspawn]

This is all fine, but thinking about odds when you and Ash are scums...

Maybe ss would reroll the setup if that happened.

???

That would be a betrayal of my supposed integrity and a strain on the purity of chance. I would absolutely not re-roll.

Sorry, that was meant as a joke. I should have added a smiley to make that clear.

ah. I totally thought you were serious

[J Reggie]

/in I never actually played a newbie game, so I'll do this one.

[McGarnacle]

I've actually never ever been a mafia. So everyone just keep that in consideration.

[J Reggie]

I've actually never ever been a mafia. So everyone just keep that in consideration.

vote: McGarnacle

[silverspawn]

vote: McGarnacle

[pingpongsam]

I will vote McGarnacle tomorrow after we flip Vote: J Reggie for an obvious bus for cred.

[pacovf]

I could /in, if you are fine with me not super committing to the game the way I usually do (although ash and pps being in here should more than balance it out)

[J Reggie]

/in

[LaLight]

Cool. Cool, cool, cool. Go!

[silverspawn]

I could /in, if you are fine with me not super committing to the game the way I usually do (although ash and pps being in here should more than balance it out)

Awesome! Really happy to have you.

Going to do PMs right now.

Thread locked except for /tags!

[gkrieg13]

/tag

[mail-mi]

/tag

[Joseph2302]

/tag

[silverspawn]

All PMs are out. I will post again once everyone has confirmed; then Night 0 starts which will last 24 hours.

I don't believe in the necessity to publish Role PMs, so do not talk about specific wordings. This is an extension of the no-quote rule.

Rule Questions can be asked via PM or in the Thread once the game has started (or in the Mafia QT if you happen to have access to it ;)). If it is in the public Thread, make sure you do not reveal information.

[silverspawn]

Night 0 starts now and lasts until September 15, 21:00 Forum Time.

Note a small addition to the ruleset (second last point in the OP).

[Calamitas]

/tag

[silverspawn]

Slampp RZJ had a strange name, and yet it utterly paled in comparison to the absurd situation he found himself in. A moment ago, he had been sitting in front of his desk, signing up for a mafia game on a neat site called f.ds. Now, he found himself sitting in a much smaller chair, with a much smaller body, surrounded by many more people, and facing his old teacher.

And worst of all, the subject was maths!

"So two s plus one t plus three equals fourteen, and two s minus one t plus five equals two. Now who can tell me..."

Slampp stood up, flabbergasted. He hated maths.

"What is all this?!" he snapped. His neighbor threw him an odd look.

His teacher's brow furrowed. "This, Slampp, is a lesson of maths in seventh grade, in the wonderful school Olmotos Pie, nineteen-hundred-and-"

Something behind Slampp's brow caught on fire. He hated forced exposition at least as much as maths.

"I know, ma'am, sorry for the interruption." He sat back down.

While he didn't know what it was that had thrown him nine years into the past, now at least he knew something else.

His teacher needed to die.

[silverspawn]

Day 1 start!

Vote Count 1.0:

Not Voting (9): LaLight, McGarnacle, pingpongsam, SpaceAnemone, Roadrunner7671, ashersky, Zigaton, J Reggie, pacovf

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 1 ends at September 25, 22:00 Forum Time.

[Roadrunner7671]

/in

[pacovf]

Been a while since I've been in a game. Can the newbies tell us how newbie they are?

Good that I am not mafia, I don't really have the time to play scum right now.

Oh and vote: Ashersky. 89% serious vote

No need to thank me for trying to shorten RVS (random voting stage)

[J Reggie]

Been a while since I've been in a game. Can the newbies tell us how newbie they are?

Good that I am not mafia, I don't really have the time to play scum right now.

Oh and vote: Ashersky. 89% serious vote

No need to thank me for trying to shorten RVS (random voting stage)

vote: pacovf

Don't lynch me.

[pingpongsam]

Good that I am not mafia, I don't really have the time to play scum right now.

Seriously? Vote: pacovf

[J Reggie]

I'm kind of creeped out by the flavor TBH.

[Roadrunner7671]

Vote: J Reggie for having an opinion

[pacovf]

Been a while since I've been in a game. Can the newbies tell us how newbie they are?

Good that I am not mafia, I don't really have the time to play scum right now.

Oh and vote: Ashersky. 89% serious vote

No need to thank me for trying to shorten RVS (random voting stage)

vote: pacovf

Don't lynch me.

Why shouldn't I lynch you?

[pacovf]

I'm kind of creeped out by the flavor TBH.

Silver has the most unique flavours. I would even say the best, but actually there's some serious competition in this forum.

[J Reggie]

Been a while since I've been in a game. Can the newbies tell us how newbie they are?

Good that I am not mafia, I don't really have the time to play scum right now.

Oh and vote: Ashersky. 89% serious vote

No need to thank me for trying to shorten RVS (random voting stage)

vote: pacovf

Don't lynch me.

Why shouldn't I lynch you?

Because I'm town.

[pacovf]

Logic checks out.

[LaLight]

oh, hey guys.

For clarifications to everybody: in Day 1 we sometimes vote randomly to listen to guys who we are voting and not more.

In advance: we have that 5 votes are enough to lynch. So please if you see that anyone is "on L-1" which means 4 people voted for him, don't vote before he has something to say. The last vote that lynches calls "Hammer" by the way.

[LaLight]

vote: pacovf

[silverspawn]

Vote Count 1.1

ashersky (1): pacovf
J Reggie (1): Roadrunner7671
pacovf (3): J Reggie, pingpongsam, LaLight

Not Voting (4): McGarnacle, Zigaton, ashersky, SpaceAnemone

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Sep 25, 22:00 forum time. That is in 9 days and 18+ hours.

[LaLight]

Vote Count 1.1

ashersky (1): pacovf
J Reggie (1): Roadrunner7671
pacovf (3): J Reggie, pingpongsam, LaLight

Not Voting (4): McGarnacle, Zigaton, ashersky, SpaceAnemone

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Sep 25, 22:00 forum time. That is in 9 days and 18+ hours.

10 days, wow

[LaLight]

Been a while since I've been in a game. Can the newbies tell us how newbie they are?

Good that I am not mafia, I don't really have the time to play scum right now.

Oh and vote: Ashersky. 89% serious vote

No need to thank me for trying to shorten RVS (random voting stage)

Will you explain 89% thing?

[Zigaton]

Okey, he is too aggressive. Vote: pacovf . Just do it.

[LaLight]

Guys,

He's at L-1. Don't kill him without his last word.

unvote just in case

[ashersky]

Newbie here, looking forward to my first game.  Also planning on MVP.

Gigantic note to everyone: if you are a VT, don't claim a power role to try to stay alive.  That is a horrible thing to do, as it may very well prompt a real power role to counter and then they are outed.

Power roles -- you know the entire setup, sort of.  Like, if you are a Tracker (#8), you know the setup has to be 6/7/8, 7/8/9, or 8/9/10, and nothing else.  That means if someone claims anything from 1 to 5 or 11 to 12, they are lying.  Only you can decide if it is worth counter claiming that person, but you should be sure that person is lying scum.

This goes back to the gigantic note -- if you lie as a VT, you mess up the power role information thing.

So really, no claiming roles unless it is for realz. 

[ashersky]

Guys,

He's at L-1. Don't kill him without his last word.

unvote just in case

Seems like Paco's partner.

[LaLight]

Newbie here, looking forward to my first game.  Also planning on MVP.

Gigantic note to everyone: if you are a VT, don't claim a power role to try to stay alive.  That is a horrible thing to do, as it may very well prompt a real power role to counter and then they are outed.

Power roles -- you know the entire setup, sort of.  Like, if you are a Tracker (#8), you know the setup has to be 6/7/8, 7/8/9, or 8/9/10, and nothing else.  That means if someone claims anything from 1 to 5 or 11 to 12, they are lying.  Only you can decide if it is worth counter claiming that person, but you should be sure that person is lying scum.

This goes back to the gigantic note -- if you lie as a VT, you mess up the power role information thing.

So really, no claiming roles unless it is for realz.

I'd add, that your goal is not staying alive, but town-win.

[SpaceAnemone]

I'm awake! How did I miss so much that there's been a vote count already?

Vote: McGarnacle for being the only person here sleepier than I am :-P

[Roadrunner7671]

Okey, he is too aggressive. Vote: pacovf . Just do it.

We're going to want to spent at least 5 days before lynching someone

[SpaceAnemone]

Guys,

He's at L-1. Don't kill him without his last word.

unvote just in case

Seems like Paco's partner.

Seems like LaLight, though.

[LaLight]

Guys,

He's at L-1. Don't kill him without his last word.

unvote just in case

Seems like Paco's partner.

I just don't want newbies to quicklynch without Pacovf playing. I'll vote for him again, but now I want us to move carefully.

[LaLight]

Guys,

He's at L-1. Don't kill him without his last word.

unvote just in case

Seems like Paco's partner.

Seems like LaLight, though.

Do I have a style? =)

[SpaceAnemone]

Been a while since I've been in a game. Can the newbies tell us how newbie they are?

This seems like a useful question that everyone's ignoring because of the whole wagon thing.

This is my 4th game, but I died in N1 of my first one, so I'm kind of not counting that. I'm a friend of Haddock's IRL, so the times when it sounds like I understand things may correspond quite well to the times when he's online and answering questions on FB :-P

[LaLight]

Been a while since I've been in a game. Can the newbies tell us how newbie they are?

This seems like a useful question that everyone's ignoring because of the whole wagon thing.

This is my 4th game, but I died in N1 of my first one, so I'm kind of not counting that. I'm a friend of Haddock's IRL, so the times when it sounds like I understand things may correspond quite well to the times when he's online and answering questions on FB :-P

It's my second game, though I participate in 3 games right now. Zigaton is first time here, my friend IRL.

[SpaceAnemone]

Newbie here, looking forward to my first game.  Also planning on MVP.

Gigantic note to everyone: if you are a VT, don't claim a power role to try to stay alive.  That is a horrible thing to do, as it may very well prompt a real power role to counter and then they are outed.

Power roles -- you know the entire setup, sort of.  Like, if you are a Tracker (#8), you know the setup has to be 6/7/8, 7/8/9, or 8/9/10, and nothing else.  That means if someone claims anything from 1 to 5 or 11 to 12, they are lying.  Only you can decide if it is worth counter claiming that person, but you should be sure that person is lying scum.

This goes back to the gigantic note -- if you lie as a VT, you mess up the power role information thing.

So really, no claiming roles unless it is for realz.

I'd add, that your goal is not staying alive, but town-win.

Yowch.. I feel like this is targeted at me :-/ I'm trying to get better!

All my previous mafia-like experience was a variant of IRL werewolf where the victory condition for any player also involved being alive at the end... this experience didn't serve me well in BSG mafia :-(

[LaLight]

Newbie here, looking forward to my first game.  Also planning on MVP.

Gigantic note to everyone: if you are a VT, don't claim a power role to try to stay alive.  That is a horrible thing to do, as it may very well prompt a real power role to counter and then they are outed.

Power roles -- you know the entire setup, sort of.  Like, if you are a Tracker (#8), you know the setup has to be 6/7/8, 7/8/9, or 8/9/10, and nothing else.  That means if someone claims anything from 1 to 5 or 11 to 12, they are lying.  Only you can decide if it is worth counter claiming that person, but you should be sure that person is lying scum.

This goes back to the gigantic note -- if you lie as a VT, you mess up the power role information thing.

So really, no claiming roles unless it is for realz.

I'd add, that your goal is not staying alive, but town-win.

Yowch.. I feel like this is targeted at me :-/ I'm trying to get better!

All my previous mafia-like experience was a variant of IRL werewolf where the victory condition for any player also involved being alive at the end... this experience didn't serve me well in BSG mafia :-(

No-no-no it was not involved! I didn't even know that you're this kind of player =)) No problem, it'll come.

[pacovf]

Will you explain 89% thing?

Eventually, yes, but first I would like to know who I am playing with (hence my newbie question). It helps understand everybody's reactions. I am particularly wary of experienced players that I've never played with before.

Okey, he is too aggressive. Vote: pacovf . Just do it.

How am I too aggressive?

[J Reggie]

Ok, I think pacovf's opening post is something you'd really only do as town.  I don't think I've read that many of his games though, and I've never played with him so IDK.  Anyway, vote: ash for being new.

[ashersky]

Ok, I think pacovf's opening post is something you'd really only do as town.  I don't think I've read that many of his games though, and I've never played with him so IDK.  Anyway, vote: ash for being new.

Paco is old school -- famed for his ruthlessness.

[McGarnacle]

I'm awake! How did I miss so much that there's been a vote count already?

Vote: McGarnacle for being the only person here sleepier than I am :-P

I got up really early yesterday. Today I wanted to sleep in. Plus, I forgot exactly when this day started and I'm not good with time differences.

[pacovf]

Ok, I think pacovf's opening post is something you'd really only do as town.  I don't think I've read that many of his games though, and I've never played with him so IDK.  Anyway, vote: ash for being new.

Paco is old school -- famed for his ruthlessness.

Coming from you, I take this as high praise

Off-topic: you've been interacting with Spanish people lately, eh?

[McGarnacle]

So what happened to Slampp RZJ? I'm a bit confused by the flavor text. Is he dead?

Vote: Roadrunner 7671

Someone said is he and ash are scum, we loose, so if we kill one of them right away, that should help.

As for the question on how new the newbies are: This is my first game of forum mafia, and my fourth game of mafia in general. I've never been scum.

[LaLight]

So what happened to Slampp RZJ? I'm a bit confused by the flavor text. Is he dead?

Vote: Roadrunner 7671

Someone said is he and ash are scum, we loose, so if we kill one of them right away, that should help.

As for the question on how new the newbies are: This is my first game of forum mafia, and my fourth game of mafia in general. I've never been scum.

Until now?

[McGarnacle]

So what happened to Slampp RZJ? I'm a bit confused by the flavor text. Is he dead?

Vote: Roadrunner 7671

Someone said is he and ash are scum, we loose, so if we kill one of them right away, that should help.

As for the question on how new the newbies are: This is my first game of forum mafia, and my fourth game of mafia in general. I've never been scum.

Until now?

Actually, no. Having never been scum doesn't statistically decrease my chances of being mafia, but it does mean that I'm even more inexperienced in that role than I am of any mafia role in general.

[LaLight]

So what happened to Slampp RZJ? I'm a bit confused by the flavor text. Is he dead?

Vote: Roadrunner 7671

Someone said is he and ash are scum, we loose, so if we kill one of them right away, that should help.

As for the question on how new the newbies are: This is my first game of forum mafia, and my fourth game of mafia in general. I've never been scum.

Until now?

Actually, no. Having never been scum doesn't statistically decrease my chances of being mafia, but it does mean that I'm even more inexperienced in that role than I am of any mafia role in general.

Ok, we'll see =)

[ashersky]

So what happened to Slampp RZJ? I'm a bit confused by the flavor text. Is he dead?

Vote: Roadrunner 7671

Someone said is he and ash are scum, we loose, so if we kill one of them right away, that should help.

As for the question on how new the newbies are: This is my first game of forum mafia, and my fourth game of mafia in general. I've never been scum.

Not me and RR, me and PPS.

[ashersky]

Ok, I think pacovf's opening post is something you'd really only do as town.  I don't think I've read that many of his games though, and I've never played with him so IDK.  Anyway, vote: ash for being new.

Paco is old school -- famed for his ruthlessness.

Coming from you, I take this as high praise

Off-topic: you've been interacting with Spanish people lately, eh?

Not specifically Spanish, but close.

[J Reggie]

So what happened to Slampp RZJ? I'm a bit confused by the flavor text. Is he dead?

Vote: Roadrunner 7671

Someone said is he and ash are scum, we loose, so if we kill one of them right away, that should help.

As for the question on how new the newbies are: This is my first game of forum mafia, and my fourth game of mafia in general. I've never been scum.

Not me and RR, me and PPS.

So you're saying we should lynch you?

[pacovf]

So what happened to Slampp RZJ? I'm a bit confused by the flavor text. Is he dead?

Vote: Roadrunner 7671

Someone said is he and ash are scum, we loose, so if we kill one of them right away, that should help.

As for the question on how new the newbies are: This is my first game of forum mafia, and my fourth game of mafia in general. I've never been scum.

Not me and RR, me and PPS.

So you're saying we should lynch you?

I think so! I should vote for him oh wait

[pingpongsam]

Ok, I think pacovf's opening post is something you'd really only do as town.

No way. I see this is scum all the time. To wit, silverspawn's most recent Mafia world championship game he opened something similar and I immediately guessed him to be scum which is exactly how he turned out. The only thing I've seen scummiest this game is LaLight's unvote of Paco. Feeling pretty good about this read in light of that.

[pingpongsam]

Autocorrect got scummier above and turned it into scummiest.

[SpaceAnemone]

The only thing I've seen scummiest this game is LaLight's unvote of Paco. Feeling pretty good about this read in light of that.

Yeah, but it's LaLight! He's being exactly like he usually is and posting helpful stuff.

(Though I'm a bit disturbed that he's no longer a friendly pink square).

[ashersky]

Ok, I think pacovf's opening post is something you'd really only do as town.

No way. I see this is scum all the time. To wit, silverspawn's most recent Mafia world championship game he opened something similar and I immediately guessed him to be scum which is exactly how he turned out. The only thing I've seen scummiest this game is LaLight's unvote of Paco. Feeling pretty good about this read in light of that.

PPS speaks the truths.

[SpaceAnemone]

So what happened to Slampp RZJ? I'm a bit confused by the flavor text. Is he dead?

Well, apparently he's not intending to solve for t or s. I assume he's us, given that his name is made out of our initials. Let's not be dead! :-)

Did anyone understand any significance in the school name? Idle curiosity.

Oh, and did anyone not solve for s and t themselves before reading further? That one's a real question :-P

[LaLight]

Ok, I think pacovf's opening post is something you'd really only do as town.

No way. I see this is scum all the time. To wit, silverspawn's most recent Mafia world championship game he opened something similar and I immediately guessed him to be scum which is exactly how he turned out. The only thing I've seen scummiest this game is LaLight's unvote of Paco. Feeling pretty good about this read in light of that.

Hey, I was trying to not accidentally have a quicklynch! I supposed that some newbie will come and hammer Pacovf, and it's no good. That's all, guys.

[LaLight]

The only thing I've seen scummiest this game is LaLight's unvote of Paco. Feeling pretty good about this read in light of that.

Yeah, but it's LaLight! He's being exactly like he usually is and posting helpful stuff.

(Though I'm a bit disturbed that he's no longer a friendly pink square).

Seprix made me a stylish Gladiator avatar.
Btw Pink Square is from 12 oz. Mouse cartoon and he's not very friendly there =)

[SpaceAnemone]

Seprix made me a stylish Gladiator avatar.

Hehe.. I don't think I get his aesthetic. I think of you as pink now, and the original version of that card has quite a pink person on it.. so that kind of fits, but why make it all dark and shadowy?

Btw Pink Square is from 12 oz. Mouse cartoon and he's not very friendly there =)

Ah! I'd never heard of that before now. I like rodents, though :-) My icon is from Babylon 5, but I don't know how many people here are actually old enough to think that was a good show...

[LaLight]

Seprix made me a stylish Gladiator avatar.

Hehe.. I don't think I get his aesthetic. I think of you as pink now, and the original version of that card has quite a pink person on it.. so that kind of fits, but why make it all dark and shadowy?

Btw Pink Square is from 12 oz. Mouse cartoon and he's not very friendly there =)

Ah! I'd never heard of that before now. I like rodents, though :-) My icon is from Babylon 5, but I don't know how many people here are actually old enough to think that was a good show...

We're getting fluffy =))

[SpaceAnemone]

Does this roughly sum up our experience levels?

Total newbies: McGarnacle & Zigatron
Mostly newbies: LaLight & SA
Quite experienced: RR, JReggie, Paco
Scary: Ash & PPS

I've never played with or read anything with Paco, Ash or PPS before. The other not-total-newbies I've encountered at least a little bit. I think RR's been in all my games so far, but I have very little confidence in my ability to read him.

Also, for people I'm new to, please not that I'm not male, and that I use "they/them" as a pronoun. Thanks :-)

[SpaceAnemone]

We're getting fluffy =))

Yeah, but that's only because I was saving the useful stuff for a separate post so that it makes things easier to go back to later!

Besides, all that "no fluff" thing is culture that we don't have to have learned yet because it's a newbie game :-) I happen to disagree quite strongly with the idea that a little bit of non-aggressive human interaction is going to harm the game, because getting to know people's personalities and likes/dislikes is going to make them easier to read in the longer term.

[pacovf]

Does this roughly sum up our experience levels?

Total newbies: McGarnacle & Zigatron
Mostly newbies: LaLight & SA
Quite experienced: RR, JReggie, Paco
Scary: Ash & PPS

I've never played with or read anything with Paco, Ash or PPS before. The other not-total-newbies I've encountered at least a little bit. I think RR's been in all my games so far, but I have very little confidence in my ability to read him.

Also, for people I'm new to, please not that I'm not male, and that I use "they/them" as a pronoun. Thanks :-)

Well this is actually only my 5th game, and I haven't played in a while, so I don't know if I qualify for "quite experienced" yet.

Oh hum J Reggie, have you played any game here? Something I can skim?

We're getting fluffy =))

Yeah, but that's only because I was saving the useful stuff for a separate post so that it makes things easier to go back to later!

Besides, all that "no fluff" thing is culture that we don't have to have learned yet because it's a newbie game :-) I happen to disagree quite strongly with the idea that a little bit of non-aggressive human interaction is going to harm the game, because getting to know people's personalities and likes/dislikes is going to make them easier to read in the longer term.

Getting a townread on SA.

No way. I see this is scum all the time. To wit, silverspawn's most recent Mafia world championship game he opened something similar and I immediately guessed him to be scum which is exactly how he turned out.

Well, silverspawn and I are different people, I think? Otherwise I wouldn't be able to play this game. Because I would also be modding it. And I would know everybody's alignment. And that would be cheating.

PPS speaks the truths.

Yet you aren't voting for me. Why?


Oh and still very interested in getting an answer to this:

Okey, he is too aggressive. Vote: pacovf . Just do it.

How am I too aggressive?

[McGarnacle]

We're getting fluffy =))

Yeah, but that's only because I was saving the useful stuff for a separate post so that it makes things easier to go back to later!

Besides, all that "no fluff" thing is culture that we don't have to have learned yet because it's a newbie game :-) I happen to disagree quite strongly with the idea that a little bit of non-aggressive human interaction is going to harm the game, because getting to know people's personalities and likes/dislikes is going to make them easier to read in the longer term.

Let's just sit around and have a chat, knowing that some of us are killers and a few more of us will be dead tomorrow. So... who here likes Lord of the Rings?

[Zigaton]

Does this roughly sum up our experience levels?

Total newbies: McGarnacle & Zigatron
Mostly newbies: LaLight & SA
Quite experienced: RR, JReggie, Paco
Scary: Ash & PPS

I've never played with or read anything with Paco, Ash or PPS before. The other not-total-newbies I've encountered at least a little bit. I think RR's been in all my games so far, but I have very little confidence in my ability to read him.

Also, for people I'm new to, please not that I'm not male, and that I use "they/them" as a pronoun. Thanks :-)

Well this is actually only my 5th game, and I haven't played in a while, so I don't know if I qualify for "quite experienced" yet.

Oh hum J Reggie, have you played any game here? Something I can skim?

We're getting fluffy =))

Yeah, but that's only because I was saving the useful stuff for a separate post so that it makes things easier to go back to later!

Besides, all that "no fluff" thing is culture that we don't have to have learned yet because it's a newbie game :-) I happen to disagree quite strongly with the idea that a little bit of non-aggressive human interaction is going to harm the game, because getting to know people's personalities and likes/dislikes is going to make them easier to read in the longer term.

Getting a townread on SA.

No way. I see this is scum all the time. To wit, silverspawn's most recent Mafia world championship game he opened something similar and I immediately guessed him to be scum which is exactly how he turned out.

Well, silverspawn and I are different people, I think? Otherwise I wouldn't be able to play this game. Because I would also be modding it. And I would know everybody's alignment. And that would be cheating.

PPS speaks the truths.

Yet you aren't voting for me. Why?


Oh and still very interested in getting an answer to this:

Okey, he is too aggressive. Vote: pacovf . Just do it.

How am I too aggressive?

Don't worry)This is test for u.Nobody can't find  mafia in first night)unvote

[pacovf]

You haven't actually answered my question though. How am I too aggressive? Why did you say that?

[J Reggie]

Oh hum J Reggie, have you played any game here? Something I can skim?

Fruit Ninja, Sherlock, Heroes, Duel. Fruit Ninja is my finest work, but I was scum there so it's not really relevant here.

[pacovf]

I like you already.

Will check later, when I am done doing the things I am procrastinating on right now.

[pingpongsam]

On mobile so responding to paco's multiquote post.

I agree you aren't silverspawn but I only referenced him because he's a recent example and mod of this game. This opener of hard claiming town comes more often than not from scum. So, if you are scum you are just like every scum who is or has been. 

[LaLight]

We're getting fluffy =))

Yeah, but that's only because I was saving the useful stuff for a separate post so that it makes things easier to go back to later!

Besides, all that "no fluff" thing is culture that we don't have to have learned yet because it's a newbie game :-) I happen to disagree quite strongly with the idea that a little bit of non-aggressive human interaction is going to harm the game, because getting to know people's personalities and likes/dislikes is going to make them easier to read in the longer term.

Well, I'm gonna agree with you. I don't think I watched Babylon 5 but definitely heard of it.

So, a regular bunch of useful stuff from me:

1) Prod: if you don't post here for 24 hours, we can prod you: moderator will send you a private message that yo're inactive and you must post here or be replaced/killed.
2) Fluff: This is what scum does to not to be prodded and not to give any information. "Fluffy" means you talk quite a lot but about some not-important-for-the-game-stuff just to seem active to other people.
And just in case:
3) Wagon: is a group of votes for a player. "To start a wagon" means to vote for a player in such a way that people start to vote for him too. E.g. JReggie started a wagon on Pacovf. Other people are on the wagon.
4) Bussing: it's when you're scum and try to distance youself from you teammates, voting for them or accusing them of something for us to think you're innocent when he flips (we'll know his role after lynching/night-killing) scum.

And a little more on abbreviations (as I'm trying to remember all of them:

VT: Vanilla Townie (does nothing)
NK: Night Kill
PR: Power Role (Role that does something in the night like Doctor or Cop)

Don't know what to add. I hope that'll help!

Vote: Pacovf btw. I still don't like his OP (that's Opening Post)

[silverspawn]

Vote Count 1.2

ashersky (2): pacovf, J Reggie
J Reggie (1): Roadrunner7671
pacovf (2): pingpongsam, LaLight
McGarnacle (1): SpaceAnemone

Not Voting (3): ashersky, McGarnacle, Zigaton

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Sep 25, 22:00 forum time. That is in 8 days and 18+ hours.

[LaLight]

Don't worry)This is test for u.Nobody can't find  mafia in first night)unvote

but you can. Somebody can scumslip (this means say something only scum can know) or just behave strangely. And you actually can. That's why we have D1 for 10 days now.

Also, FYI town can townslip too. But as I know it's rare case

[ashersky]

vote: LaLight

[LaLight]

vote: LaLight

Omg. vote: Ash
Don't uou like me being useful?

[McGarnacle]

vote: LaLight

Omg. vote: Ash
Don't uou like me being useful?

My first game of Mafia, I got lynched by a 100% majority for talking too much during day 1.

[pingpongsam]

vote: LaLight

Yeah, mr. A little too helpful Vote: LaLight

[LaLight]

vote: LaLight

Yeah, mr. A little too helpful Vote: LaLight

I see. You didn't play with me before. Lynch me, i'll flip vt and in future you'll know that I just try to help people enter the game correctly.

[LaLight]

Nobody expkained me all that stuff. I try to make it easier.

[ashersky]

vote: LaLight

Yeah, mr. A little too helpful Vote: LaLight

I see. You didn't play with me before. Lynch me, i'll flip vt and in future you'll know that I just try to help people enter the game correctly.

Earlier than required VT claim -- scummy.

[LaLight]

vote: LaLight

Yeah, mr. A little too helpful Vote: LaLight

I see. You didn't play with me before. Lynch me, i'll flip vt and in future you'll know that I just try to help people enter the game correctly.

Earlier than required VT claim -- scummy.

I don't claim, i just tell you how it is going to be

[LaLight]

vote: LaLight

Yeah, mr. A little too helpful Vote: LaLight

I see. You didn't play with me before. Lynch me, i'll flip vt and in future you'll know that I just try to help people enter the game correctly.

Earlier than required VT claim -- scummy.

With a big probability

[pingpongsam]

Yes, the probabilities are currently good that any one of us is town.

You got off the Paco wagon awfully quick then got back on when called out for it and it abated.

Now you are claiming VT which is bad for town if true. If you are scum it's the only safe claim. You could have simply said town but you went all the way. Why would town do this? Newb scum might slip it, though.

[LaLight]

I see my mistake. sorry.

[LaLight]

it's stiil a newbie game  and I am one

[pacovf]

Vote: Pacovf btw. I still don't like his OP (that's Opening Post)

Curious here, what is it that you don't like in my OP?

[LaLight]

Vote: Pacovf btw. I still don't like his OP (that's Opening Post)

Curious here, what is it that you don't like in my OP?

"Good I'm not a scum, I don't have time"
This is scummy.

[Roadrunner7671]

I don't know about LaLight here. I don't want to lynch him today but I do want to keep an eye on him

[McGarnacle]

vote: RR

for reasons stated previously, newb scum isn't as dangerous and vet scum.

[pacovf]

Why do you not want to lynch him today? Who do you want to lynch today?

[pacovf]

vote: RR

for reasons stated previously, newb scum isn't as dangerous and vet scum.

Huh are your vote and your statement related somehow?

[Roadrunner7671]

vote: RR

for reasons stated previously, newb scum isn't as dangerous and vet scum.

So you're saying we should lynch all the vets the first three days or so then see what happens?

[McGarnacle]

I don't know about LaLight here. I don't want to lynch him today but I do want to keep an eye on him

Actually, unvote: RRI think Roadrunner is not scum. His last post sounds un-scummy to me.

vote: Pingpongsam for going after LaLight early. I think he wants someone to die.

 

[McGarnacle]

vote: RR

for reasons stated previously, newb scum isn't as dangerous and vet scum.

So you're saying we should lynch all the vets the first three days or so then see what happens?

No, I'm just saying that vet scum is very dangerous to town. Of course, vet town is also dangerous to scum, so that's good.

[Roadrunner7671]

All scum is dangerous to town!

And if you're 'just saying' that, I guess it has nothing to do with your vote for me. So you're just voting for me out of the blue

[Roadrunner7671]

I don't know about LaLight here. I don't want to lynch him today but I do want to keep an eye on him

Actually, unvote: RRI think Roadrunner is not scum. His last post sounds un-scummy to me.

vote: Pingpongsam for going after LaLight early. I think he wants someone to die.

Now I feel like I'm just targeting you but wanting someone to die is a good thing. There's a chance we'll kill scum and we can analyze how everyone interacted with the dead person once we all know their alignment

[McGarnacle]

I don't know about LaLight here. I don't want to lynch him today but I do want to keep an eye on him

Actually, unvote: RRI think Roadrunner is not scum. His last post sounds un-scummy to me.

vote: Pingpongsam for going after LaLight early. I think he wants someone to die.

Now I feel like I'm just targeting you but wanting someone to die is a good thing. There's a chance we'll kill scum and we can analyze how everyone interacted with the dead person once we all know their alignment

Sorry, I don't understand the first part of your post. Could you rephrase it please?

[pingpongsam]

First off unless we are idiots and no lynch someone is going to die. I want that someone to be scum and in lieu of that someone who gave me some good interactions to read. People doing things I perceive as scummy are the best places for my vote. Voting, in and off itself is not scummy. Giving substantial reasons for the votes is opposite of scummy.

That I am voting for a kill is not a substantial reason to vote me.

[SpaceAnemone]

Argh.. really sorry for not being present today :-( I've had a big concert this evening, and it went amazingly, but I've just come home from the afterparty and it's too late to do thinking... though I'd have a chance to phonepost between the rehearsals and concert, but I was rushed off my feet. I'll definitely make time to do proper reading tomorrow :-)

[McGarnacle]

Argh.. really sorry for not being present today :-( I've had a big concert this evening, and it went amazingly, but I've just come home from the afterparty and it's too late to do thinking... though I'd have a chance to phonepost between the rehearsals and concert, but I was rushed off my feet. I'll definitely make time to do proper reading tomorrow :-)

Being at a concert... Sounds scummy to me! 

[ashersky]

Could vote for McGargle.

[McGarnacle]

Could vote for McGargle.

Uh, its McGarnacle.

[LaLight]

Could vote for McGargle.

Uh, its McGarnacle.

But he could vote for McGargle

[McGarnacle]

Could vote for McGargle.

Uh, its McGarnacle.

But he could vote for McGargle

Yeah, I guess if he doesn't want anyone to die.

[pingpongsam]

Could vote for McGargle.

Could vote for anyone, so why him?

[pacovf]

Could vote for McGargle.

I actually think he's townie. Not a super strong read, but he seems too lighthearted to be scum.

Also this question was aimed at RR, referring to his opinion about Lalight:

Why do you not want to lynch him today? Who do you want to lynch today?

[Roadrunner7671]

LaLight is a newish player, and I think he'll either get townier or scummier as the game goes on.

Today I'm not sure yet. Forming opinions isn't instantaneous

[pacovf]

I see. So you would rather lynch a vet today, is what you are saying?

[Roadrunner7671]

I see. So you would rather lynch a vet today, is what you are saying?

I have no idea how you got that from what I said

[pacovf]

Ah, sorry, I don't mean to misconstrue your post.

You said that you didn't want to lynch Lalight today, and you explained that it's because he's a newbie, and newbies get more and more obvious as the game goes on. This reasoning can be applied to all newbies, so that means you would prefer to lynch a vet today. Unless you didn't really mean that you don't want to lynch Lalight today.

[LaLight]

Ah, sorry, I don't mean to misconstrue your post.

You said that you didn't want to lynch Lalight today, and you explained that it's because he's a newbie, and newbies get more and more obvious as the game goes on. This reasoning can be applied to all newbies, so that means you would prefer to lynch a vet today. Unless you didn't really mean that you don't want to lynch Lalight today.

I agree with RR here, but I don't think it's even a little fair.

[ashersky]

Argh.. really sorry for not being present today :-( I've had a big concert this evening, and it went amazingly, but I've just come home from the afterparty and it's too late to do thinking... though I'd have a chance to phonepost between the rehearsals and concert, but I was rushed off my feet. I'll definitely make time to do proper reading tomorrow :-)

Being at a concert... Sounds scummy to me! 

This joke is scummy.  Plus emoticon.

[silverspawn]

Vote Count 1.3

pingpongsam (1): McGarnacle
ashersky (3): pacovf, J Reggie, LaLight
J Reggie (1): Roadrunner7671
LaLight (2): ashersky, pingpongsam
McGarnacle (1): SpaceAnemone

Not Voting (1): Zigaton

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Sep 25, 22:00 forum time. That is in 7 days and 8+ hours.

[pacovf]

This joke is scummy.  Plus emoticon.

Not superstrong, but I guess no D1 case ever is...

In the mean time, vote: Zigaton. Only posted twice, and both posts raised red flags for me.

[Zigaton]

This joke is scummy.  Plus emoticon.

Not superstrong, but I guess no D1 case ever is...

In the mean time, vote: Zigaton. Only posted twice, and both posts raised red flags for me.

Lol.You're wrong,dude.I voted for you to see your reaction.I think it is too early to draw any conclusions.

[McGarnacle]

This joke is scummy.  Plus emoticon.

Not superstrong, but I guess no D1 case ever is...

In the mean time, vote: Zigaton. Only posted twice, and both posts raised red flags for me.

Lol.You're wrong,dude.I voted for you to see your reaction.I think it is too early to draw any conclusions.

That still doesn't explain why you have only posted a total of three times.

[pacovf]

This joke is scummy.  Plus emoticon.

Not superstrong, but I guess no D1 case ever is...

In the mean time, vote: Zigaton. Only posted twice, and both posts raised red flags for me.

Lol.You're wrong,dude.I voted for you to see your reaction.I think it is too early to draw any conclusions.

Asking for a quickhammer hours into the game (because I am "too aggressive") is not just looking for reactions. Then being jokey about it, trying to minimize it, and unvoting sounds like you are just scared of standing out.

[SpaceAnemone]

Argh.. really sorry for not being present today :-( I've had a big concert this evening, and it went amazingly, but I've just come home from the afterparty and it's too late to do thinking... though I'd have a chance to phonepost between the rehearsals and concert, but I was rushed off my feet. I'll definitely make time to do proper reading tomorrow :-)

Being at a concert... Sounds scummy to me! 

This joke is scummy.  Plus emoticon.

Oh, not you as well!! Silver seemed to take issue with my use of smilies right from my first game :-( For some of us, they're just useful forms of written communication, and they don't mean anything at all about our scumminess or lack thereof!

[pingpongsam]

Argh.. really sorry for not being present today :-( I've had a big concert this evening, and it went amazingly, but I've just come home from the afterparty and it's too late to do thinking... though I'd have a chance to phonepost between the rehearsals and concert, but I was rushed off my feet. I'll definitely make time to do proper reading tomorrow :-)

Being at a concert... Sounds scummy to me! 

This joke is scummy.  Plus emoticon.

Oh, not you as well!! Silver seemed to take issue with my use of smilies right from my first game :-( For some of us, they're just useful forms of written communication, and they don't mean anything at all about our scumminess or lack thereof!

Scum always says that.

[SpaceAnemone]

This joke is scummy.  Plus emoticon.

Not superstrong, but I guess no D1 case ever is...

In the mean time, vote: Zigaton. Only posted twice, and both posts raised red flags for me.

Lol.You're wrong,dude.I voted for you to see your reaction.I think it is too early to draw any conclusions.

To be fair, I've noticed you're quite quiet, and I was beginning to wonder about it too. You probably should post more ideas and opinions about the rest of us :-) Yes, it's too early to build a strong case, but you can't just watch and wait till someone says something totally damning, because they probably don't do that at all in most games.

[McGarnacle]

Argh.. really sorry for not being present today :-( I've had a big concert this evening, and it went amazingly, but I've just come home from the afterparty and it's too late to do thinking... though I'd have a chance to phonepost between the rehearsals and concert, but I was rushed off my feet. I'll definitely make time to do proper reading tomorrow :-)

Being at a concert... Sounds scummy to me! 

This joke is scummy.  Plus emoticon.

                              

[Roadrunner7671]

That's a scummy reaction. McGarnle reminds me of myself in my first scum game

[Roadrunner7671]

Okay, the Mafia community really needs more people so I don't want McGarnacle to have a bad first experience but I'm pretty sure he's scum. So I'm actually sorry about this but Vote: McGarnacle

[McGarnacle]

That's a scummy reaction. McGarnle reminds me of myself in my first scum game

What??? Next time I play mafia I'll know to not post emoticons- only mafia use emoticons, apparently.

[Roadrunner7671]

That's a scummy reaction. McGarnle reminds me of myself in my first scum game

What??? Next time I play mafia I'll know to not post emoticons- only mafia use emoticons, apparently.

I don't care about you throwing a few emojis around. I do care about you sending a ton of emojis when people tell you it's scummy

[pacovf]

I think it's time for a read list:

Would lynch:

Zigaton (as far as I am concerned, his second post was super scummy. Might be me OMGUSing, I am hoping it isn't)
PPS (jumping on easy votes, makes me feel uneasy)
Lalight (has done some things typically attributed to scum)

McGarnacle (don't feel very strongly about this one, but will vote if necessary)

Would not lynch:

SpaceAnemone (strongish townread)
RoadRunner (mild townread)

No opinion:

ashersky (not as confrontational as he usually is, dunno how to feel about that)
J Reggie (barely present)

[ashersky]

Would lynch: lalight, paco, mcgarg, zig
Might lynch: Space, RR, J Reg
Rather not lynch: PPS

The difference between would and might is not a lot.

Basically I have one town read.  That's...not great.

[LaLight]

Would lynch: lalight, paco, mcgarg, zig
Might lynch: Space, RR, J Reg
Rather not lynch: PPS

The difference between would and might is not a lot.

Basically I have one town read.  That's...not great.

Sorry, but can you please spell McGarnacle correctly? =)

[ashersky]

Would lynch: lalight, paco, mcgarg, zig
Might lynch: Space, RR, J Reg
Rather not lynch: PPS

The difference between would and might is not a lot.

Basically I have one town read.  That's...not great.

Sorry, but can you please spell McGarnacle correctly? =)

I could.  But I like the nickname better.

Speaking of which, you need one too.  Loopsie?  I'm assuming that's where your name comes from.

[LaLight]

Would lynch: lalight, paco, mcgarg, zig
Might lynch: Space, RR, J Reg
Rather not lynch: PPS

The difference between would and might is not a lot.

Basically I have one town read.  That's...not great.

Sorry, but can you please spell McGarnacle correctly? =)

I could.  But I like the nickname better.

Speaking of which, you need one too.  Loopsie?  I'm assuming that's where your name comes from.

My name came from some strange FanFic of LoTR =) Call me whatever you want, though. What is Loopsie anyway?

[ashersky]

I misspelled it, actually.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lalaloopsy

[LaLight]

I misspelled it, actually.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lalaloopsy

Nice!

[pingpongsam]

Would lynch: lalight, paco, mcgarg, zig
Might lynch: Space, RR, J Reg
Rather not lynch: PPS

The difference between would and might is not a lot.

Basically I have one town read.  That's...not great.

Interesting, I hate when I have a bunch of town reads all,over the place, especially early on. Also I am suspicious of people who read town on everyone except a couple people, it is an easy scum tactic to softly direct for mislynches. I mean, yeah, when someone is scummy they are scummy and should make the list and not everyone is going to be scummy like that.

Today, I hold the idea we will actually hit scum very loosely and look for the most informative flip which is still pretty loose as well, it's D1 after all. I've got no strong town reads and no strong scum reads. Being a newbie game I suppose it's possible the Paco/LaLight pair have shown their hand that easily but it's a stretch. Paco omgusing me doesn't really sway me off the idea.

All that said, there's no one on my wouldn't lynch list today and probably wouldn't be unless we got someone to L-1 and they claimed a PR without a counter. Everyone is pretty null to me. RR gives me a faint town read.

[SpaceAnemone]

Would lynch: lalight, paco, mcgarg, zig
Might lynch: Space, RR, J Reg
Rather not lynch: PPS

The difference between would and might is not a lot.

Basically I have one town read.  That's...not great.

Sorry, but can you please spell McGarnacle correctly? =)

I could.  But I like the nickname better.

Whoa, this isn't good :-( Can we play nice?

[ashersky]

Why isn't it good, and why is a nickname bad?  No one is required to spell out my entirely false name I chose for use on the Internet.

[LaLight]

Let's not make this a RSP thread. If Ashersky feels comfortable with changing our nicknames, I'm OK with that. Though if anyone thinks that's offensive, I'd ask Ash not to offend people =) We are different people with different points but I think that our aim here is to enjoy the game. Again: we're not in RSP.

[ashersky]

I am honestly confused.  If there is something posted somewhere that said that McGarnacle is specifically sensitive about the spelling of their username, please point me to it.

This is a forum where vote: mom salon was an acceptable way of voting for mcmcsalot.

LaLight seemed to find the Lalaloopsy thing fun.  There are lots of abbreviations accepted (WW, SS, II, igu, ash, PPS, RR, galz, robz, joth, XP, SA) and unintentional misspellings (gkreig, etc.) throughout the forum.

I'm sure there are lots of other examples, too.

[McGarnacle]

I am honestly confused.  If there is something posted somewhere that said that McGarnacle is specifically sensitive about the spelling of their username, please point me to it.

This is a forum where vote: mom salon was an acceptable way of voting for mcmcsalot.

LaLight seemed to find the Lalaloopsy thing fun.  There are lots of abbreviations accepted (WW, SS, II, igu, ash, PPS, RR, galz, robz, joth, XP, SA) and unintentional misspellings (gkreig, etc.) throughout the forum.

I'm sure there are lots of other examples, too.

I don't really mind that people call me.

[ashersky]

Off-topic: there's an option in member profiles on f.ds where you can toggle off the "show online" green box.

In case you want to be able to lie and say you were here when you weren't or vice versa.

[pingpongsam]

Off-topic: there's an option in member profiles on f.ds where you can toggle off the "show online" green box.

In case you want to be able to lie and say you were here when you weren't or vice versa.

I thought we had a semi unwritten policy about that. Personally, I don't know what my setting is and don't care. If I'm here I'm probably playing and if I'm not it's because I was posting elsewhere. Never saw being online and not posting as guilt.

[pingpongsam]

Also, I'm a big fan of pushing buttons when I find them. If misspelling a name gets a rise I'll keep pushing that button. Reactions are analysis around here.

[McGarnacle]

Off-topic: there's an option in member profiles on f.ds where you can toggle off the "show online" green box.

In case you want to be able to lie and say you were here when you weren't or vice versa.

I think we should keep it normal. It would making lying just a bit easier. I think it will be hard enough to figure out who is scum without them being able to lie about one of the few ways to actually sort of nail them.

[pingpongsam]

Off-topic: there's an option in member profiles on f.ds where you can toggle off the "show online" green box.

In case you want to be able to lie and say you were here when you weren't or vice versa.

I think we should keep it normal. It would making lying just a bit easier. I think it will be hard enough to figure out who is scum without them being able to lie about one of the few ways to actually sort of nail them.

The quasi policy as I remember was you could have whatever settings you like but not lie about lurking while hidden.

[pingpongsam]

Clearly unenforceable.

[ashersky]

The policy was there is no policy -- you can do what you want with your forum settings.

I think separately related was the basically written policy that the VLA thread is lie free -- if you were planning a fake VLA to miss a deadline on purpose, you couldn't post that lie in the VLA thread, as that thread is treated as honest and outside of games.

[Roadrunner7671]

Yeah reactions and rises are a good thing

[J Reggie]

Ok I'm back and I don't like the whole emoticons thing. By that I mean I don't like that people find it scummy. I think the only reason to find it scummy is that people (myself included) usually use emoticons when making a joke, and if that's the case why not just call someone out for making too many jokes?

Btw I'm town.

[pacovf]

What are your reads?

[pingpongsam]

The policy was there is no policy -- you can do what you want with your forum settings.

I think separately related was the basically written policy that the VLA thread is lie free -- if you were planning a fake VLA to miss a deadline on purpose, you couldn't post that lie in the VLA thread, as that thread is treated as honest and outside of games.

Oh, yeah, this.

[Zigaton]

This joke is scummy.  Plus emoticon.

Not superstrong, but I guess no D1 case ever is...

In the mean time, vote: Zigaton. Only posted twice, and both posts raised red flags for me.

Lol.You're wrong,dude.I voted for you to see your reaction.I think it is too early to draw any conclusions.

That still doesn't explain why you have only posted a total of three times.

Because this is my first game (I have not yet come up with what to write, but do not worry, soon I will take an active part in the discussion.
P.S. Excuse my terrible english

[pacovf]

Oh, you are not a native speaker?

...that makes you harder to read. Hrmm.

[McGarnacle]

This joke is scummy.  Plus emoticon.

Not superstrong, but I guess no D1 case ever is...

In the mean time, vote: Zigaton. Only posted twice, and both posts raised red flags for me.

Lol.You're wrong,dude.I voted for you to see your reaction.I think it is too early to draw any conclusions.

That still doesn't explain why you have only posted a total of three times.

Because this is my first game (I have not yet come up with what to write, but do not worry, soon I will take an active part in the discussion.
P.S. Excuse my terrible english

He must be scum! I've never heard of American or English mafia, but I have heard about Russian, Italian, etc. 

P.S. No offense If you are from either of those two countries.

[LaLight]

Oh, you are not a native speaker?

...that makes you harder to read. Hrmm.

Me too, btw

[pacovf]

I mean, I am not native either, but I am not "excuse my terrible English" levels of not-native, which is the part that makes him hard to read.

[LaLight]

So, what do we do next? I'm a little convinced in scumness of McGarnacle, but I don't want yet to vote him. Also Pacovf seems town. Ash is the hardest to read. RR seems helpful and good, maybe too much =)

[McGarnacle]

So, what do we do next? I'm a little convinced in scumness of McGarnacle, but I don't want yet to vote him. Also Pacovf seems town. Ash is the hardest to read. RR seems helpful and good, maybe too much =)

If RR is scum I will loose my faith in humanity.

[pacovf]

Paco omgusing me doesn't really sway me off the idea.

So I wanted to get back to you about my bad feeling.

See, what I normally see about other players, when they get invested in a game as you are, is that half their cases or reads seem to come out of nowhere. Half the time they won't ever explain them. And the other half, even after they explain them, there's a good 40% the reasons will seem weird to me! Best case scenario, they just OMGUS people and bend themselves backwards to find a reason to find them scummy. This is only more true in your case, since your thought process and mine are very different, from what I remember playing with you or reading your games.

But here, you've jumped on the "hard claim town" and "overly helpful" cliche arguments for finding someone scummy (I was aware that opening with a town claim is considered scummy in this forum, I wanted to see who would jump on it). Super safe, super forgettable reasons and votes. I am wary of that.

Furthermore, now you give us this:

Today, I hold the idea we will actually hit scum very loosely and look for the most informative flip which is still pretty loose as well, it's D1 after all.

The "I don't really think we will hit scum, so might as well lynch the most informative flip" is an easy way to get rid of helpful town without being accountable about it. Sure, I dislike lynching lurkers D1 for this very reason, but there's a difference between not wanting to lynch a lurker and what you are saying.

I am also uneasy about your soft-buddying Ash here and here:

Basically I have one town read.  That's...not great.

Interesting, I hate when I have a bunch of town reads all,over the place, especially early on. Also I am suspicious of people who read town on everyone except a couple people, it is an easy scum tactic to softly direct for mislynches.[/quote]

vote: LaLight

Yeah, mr. A little too helpful Vote: LaLight

Actually, I think I am going to put my vote where my words are, vote: PPS.


Note: 5 out of 8 players have expressed an interest in lynching me, so it's kinda hard for me to vote for someone without OMGUSing them...

[pacovf]

I butchered a quote there, hopefully it's still understandable.

[pacovf]

Anybody that has played with Lalight before can tell us if he usually is this huh fluffy?

[McGarnacle]

Who is PPS and paco? I missed that part  .

[McGarnacle]

I like pacovf's reasoning. Those are some good points I hadn't thought of.

[pingpongsam]

Note: 5 out of 8 players have expressed an interest in lynching me, so it's kinda hard for me to vote for someone without OMGUSing them...

fair point, here.

The rest is solid response, I like it. I don't agree with it too much seeing as I know my own alignment to be contrary to your implications but I can't really fault your line of reasoning, either. I'll be the first to admit that I suffer greatly from reading those who implicate me as town as being town themselves. I was trying to avoid this with ash and even considered voting him over it because he knows this about me. I am actually pretty impressed you highlighted buddying behavior of mine when I would have thought I had successfully avoided it.

[McGarnacle]

Who is PPS and paco? I missed that part  .

Never mind, I just figured it out  .

[LaLight]

Anybody that has played with Lalight before can tell us if he usually is this huh fluffy?

Not always fluffy, but I talk too much every time.

[McGarnacle]

Some scum has been tampering with the forums.

[SpaceAnemone]

I am honestly confused.  If there is something posted somewhere that said that McGarnacle is specifically sensitive about the spelling of their username, please point me to it.

At #157, he did specifically correct your corruption of his name, which you can read as at least a minor preference for having it spelt correctly, hence my concern.

He's now said he doesn't mind what people call him, so it looks like you have free rein after all.

[SpaceAnemone]

Also, I'm a big fan of pushing buttons when I find them. If misspelling a name gets a rise I'll keep pushing that button. Reactions are analysis around here.

Urgh. I'm not okay with trollish behaviour, which is what this sounds like :-(

[McGarnacle]

Also, I'm a big fan of pushing buttons when I find them. If misspelling a name gets a rise I'll keep pushing that button. Reactions are analysis around here.

Um, what exactly do you expect to get out of this? Something like: "Listen you townie, if you misspell my username one more times, my mafia buddies will kill you... Uh oh, did I say that out loud?"

[silverspawn]

Deadline will be extended by one day due to forum downtime.

[ashersky]

Also, I'm a big fan of pushing buttons when I find them. If misspelling a name gets a rise I'll keep pushing that button. Reactions are analysis around here.

Um, what exactly do you expect to get out of this? Something like: "Listen you townie, if you misspell my username one more times, my mafia buddies will kill you... Uh oh, did I say that out loud?"

+1

[silverspawn]

Vote Count 1.4

pingpongsam (2): McGarnacle, pacovf
ashersky (2): J Reggie, LaLight
LaLight (2): ashersky, pingpongsam
McGarnacle (2): SpaceAnemone, Roadrunner7671

Not Voting (1): Zigaton

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Sep 26, 22:00 forum time. That is in 6 days and 11+ hours.

[ashersky]

Forum downtime is poopy.

FWIW, the paco I remember from when he played way back when is the same paco that we see now.

He only played in one game, per the records, and he was town (and won).  He lynched two scum, mislynched one town.  Generally speaking, a good town player.

Since we've never seen scum!paco, and we don't have a lot to go on, he's going to remain hard to read.  He's not going to be easy-to-catch scum.

[ashersky]

vote: roadrunner

[LaLight]

Vote: McGarnacle actually. Scummy he is. After all we need to find scum here

[SpaceAnemone]

Forum downtime is poopy.

FWIW, the paco I remember from when he played way back when is the same paco that we see now.

He only played in one game, per the records, and he was town (and won).  He lynched two scum, mislynched one town.  Generally speaking, a good town player.

Since we've never seen scum!paco, and we don't have a lot to go on, he's going to remain hard to read.  He's not going to be easy-to-catch scum.

Has he played more elsewhere? He sounds really experienced (or maybe really confident in his own abilities?) for someone who's only played one previous game.

Having just tried to make up a reads list for myself, I put him in the bag with you and PPS as "people who I'm unlikely to read anything useful from in D1".

[McGarnacle]

vote: Zigaton

He is away for a long time, seems to be dodgy about answering questions and hasn't been terribly helpful.

[LaLight]

vote: Zigaton

He is away for a long time, seems to be dodgy about answering questions and hasn't been terribly helpful.

IMO he tries to understand what is going on here. I don't see many people here being terribly helpful.

[McGarnacle]

vote: Zigaton

He is away for a long time, seems to be dodgy about answering questions and hasn't been terribly helpful.

IMO he tries to understand what is going on here. I don't see many people here being terribly helpful.

And some being possibly too helpful...

[LaLight]

vote: Zigaton

He is away for a long time, seems to be dodgy about answering questions and hasn't been terribly helpful.

IMO he tries to understand what is going on here. I don't see many people here being terribly helpful.

And some being possibly too helpful...

Who might these people be?

Also JReggie is strangely silent. RR too.

[McGarnacle]

vote: Zigaton

He is away for a long time, seems to be dodgy about answering questions and hasn't been terribly helpful.

IMO he tries to understand what is going on here. I don't see many people here being terribly helpful.

And some being possibly too helpful...

Who might these people be?

Also JReggie is strangely silent. RR too.

You are being quite helpful, which may or may not be suspicious. How come JReggie and RR being silent is suspicious, while Zigaton's silence is not?

[LaLight]

vote: Zigaton

He is away for a long time, seems to be dodgy about answering questions and hasn't been terribly helpful.

IMO he tries to understand what is going on here. I don't see many people here being terribly helpful.

And some being possibly too helpful...

Who might these people be?

Also JReggie is strangely silent. RR too.

You are being quite helpful, which may or may not be suspicious. How come JReggie and RR being silent is suspicious, while Zigaton's silence is not?

Zigaton is non-native super-newbie. They're not. I played with both and they are usually good readers and posters.

[McGarnacle]

vote: Zigaton

He is away for a long time, seems to be dodgy about answering questions and hasn't been terribly helpful.

IMO he tries to understand what is going on here. I don't see many people here being terribly helpful.

And some being possibly too helpful...

Who might these people be?

Also JReggie is strangely silent. RR too.

You are being quite helpful, which may or may not be suspicious. How come JReggie and RR being silent is suspicious, while Zigaton's silence is not?

Zigaton is non-native super-newbie. They're not. I played with both and they are usually good readers and posters.

RR hasn't posted at all today, JReggie, on the other hand, has. Maybe you are right, I haven't played with them before.

[J Reggie]

I was silent over the weekend because I was v/la. RR is silent because he's in school. But I still think a vote: RR could help. It's hard to form reads here because there are so many people I haven't played with or read before.

[pingpongsam]

Also, I'm a big fan of pushing buttons when I find them. If misspelling a name gets a rise I'll keep pushing that button. Reactions are analysis around here.

Urgh. I'm not okay with trollish behaviour, which is what this sounds like :-(

Look, this is Mafia. It's a game of social deduction. If I can introduce a emotional instability into your game I gain competitive advantage. What you call trolling i call gamesmanship. We have limits to just how much trolling is allowed which implies everything not defined is fair game.

What's funny about this is I wasn't even the one pushing the button, ashersky was. I was pointing out how this is effective play. You come along and get emotionally invested against me. So I pushed your buttons by a proxy of a proxy.

[pacovf]

He only played in one game, per the records, and he was town (and won).

Actually, I've played in 4 games, always VT (sort of, for RMM21). I've been in NM6, M50, RMM21, and M64, in that order. Even got MVP in NM6, in a rather embarrassing way </humblebrag>

The recent exchange between Lalight and McGarnacle is... interesting...

Would definitely like to hear more from RR and J Reggie.

Zigaton, do you have a basic idea of what's going on? Do you have any questions? If you have no idea of what's going on, post a short list of what you think of every player. It doesn't necessarily have to be based on facts, just the general feel you get from each player is enough, even if you can't quite explain them.

[pacovf]

Also

I missed you guys

[Zigaton]

This joke is scummy.  Plus emoticon.

Not superstrong, but I guess no D1 case ever is...

In the mean time, vote: Zigaton. Only posted twice, and both posts raised red flags for me.

Lol.You're wrong,dude.I voted for you to see your reaction.I think it is too early to draw any conclusions.

That still doesn't explain why you have only posted a total of three times.

Because this is my first game (I have not yet come up with what to write, but do not worry, soon I will take an active part in the discussion.
P.S. Excuse my terrible english

He must be scum! I've never heard of American or English mafia, but I have heard about Russian, Italian, etc. 

P.S. No offense If you are from either of those two countries.

You're right. Seventy percent of families in the Russian mafia
P.S. But I am not

[LaLight]

This joke is scummy.  Plus emoticon.

Not superstrong, but I guess no D1 case ever is...

In the mean time, vote: Zigaton. Only posted twice, and both posts raised red flags for me.

Lol.You're wrong,dude.I voted for you to see your reaction.I think it is too early to draw any conclusions.

That still doesn't explain why you have only posted a total of three times.

Because this is my first game (I have not yet come up with what to write, but do not worry, soon I will take an active part in the discussion.
P.S. Excuse my terrible english

He must be scum! I've never heard of American or English mafia, but I have heard about Russian, Italian, etc. 

P.S. No offense If you are from either of those two countries.

You're right. Seventy percent of families in the Russian mafia
P.S. But I am not

Me with Zigaton are both from Russia, but it's no offence. Though I've heard a lot about American Mafia. Chicago, isn't it?

[Zigaton]

This joke is scummy.  Plus emoticon.

Not superstrong, but I guess no D1 case ever is...

In the mean time, vote: Zigaton. Only posted twice, and both posts raised red flags for me.

Lol.You're wrong,dude.I voted for you to see your reaction.I think it is too early to draw any conclusions.

That still doesn't explain why you have only posted a total of three times.

Because this is my first game (I have not yet come up with what to write, but do not worry, soon I will take an active part in the discussion.
P.S. Excuse my terrible english

He must be scum! I've never heard of American or English mafia, but I have heard about Russian, Italian, etc. 

P.S. No offense If you are from either of those two countries.

You're right. Seventy percent of families in the Russian mafia
P.S. But I am not

Me with Zigaton are both from Russia, but it's no offence. Though I've heard a lot about American Mafia. Chicago, isn't it?

Did you hear about American drug lords?They may be associated with the Mafia

[pacovf]

Zigaton, do you have a basic idea of what's going on? Do you have any questions? If you have no idea of what's going on, post a short list of what you think of every player. It doesn't necessarily have to be based on facts, just the general feel you get from each player is enough, even if you can't quite explain them.

[ashersky]

I don't want to be that guy, but Zigaton could be that super newbie scum who doesn't want to give himself away so he doesn't talk about the game at all.

[pingpongsam]

I don't want to be that guy, but Zigaton could be that super newbie scum who doesn't want to give himself away so he doesn't talk about the game at all.

Why don't you want to be that guy?

[J Reggie]

I don't want to be that guy, but Zigaton could be that super newbie scum who doesn't want to give himself away so he doesn't talk about the game at all.

Why don't we give him a day one pass and wait and see?

[McGarnacle]

Yeah, I'm almost sure Zigaton is scum. Who is the other one, though?

[McGarnacle]

I don't want to be that guy, but Zigaton could be that super newbie scum who doesn't want to give himself away so he doesn't talk about the game at all.

Why don't we give him a day one pass and wait and see?

What do you mean by a day one pass?

[pingpongsam]

I don't want to be that guy, but Zigaton could be that super newbie scum who doesn't want to give himself away so he doesn't talk about the game at all.

Why don't we give him a day one pass and wait and see?

What do you mean by a day one pass?

He means remove him from the lynch pool for D1 because he's new. This looks too scummy to be scum talking, if you ask me. Not to say Zigaton isn't scum but J Reggie couldn't be that brazen if he is partnered with Ziggy. at any rate I don't believe in passes except for people who have been consecutively killed D1 and for interesting claims that we are willing to vet out instead of force a flip. I mean, that's my viewpoint regardless, but in this particular game this turns into give all the new guys a pass for being new and lynch the old hands so I am especially opposed here.

[McGarnacle]

I don't want to be that guy, but Zigaton could be that super newbie scum who doesn't want to give himself away so he doesn't talk about the game at all.

Why don't we give him a day one pass and wait and see?

What do you mean by a day one pass?

He means remove him from the lynch pool for D1 because he's new. This looks too scummy to be scum talking, if you ask me. Not to say Zigaton isn't scum but J Reggie couldn't be that brazen if he is partnered with Ziggy. at any rate I don't believe in passes except for people who have been consecutively killed D1 and for interesting claims that we are willing to vet out instead of force a flip. I mean, that's my viewpoint regardless, but in this particular game this turns into give all the new guys a pass for being new and lynch the old hands so I am especially opposed here.

I would be against a pass.

[J Reggie]

Ok then. vote: zigaton

[ashersky]

Ok then. vote: zigaton

Man, everyone is scummy.

[J Reggie]

Ok then. vote: zigaton

Man, everyone is scummy.

Including you?

[J Reggie]

But I'm not scummy. I'm an IC.

[McGarnacle]

But I'm not scummy. I'm an IC.

What's an IC?

[J Reggie]

But I'm not scummy. I'm an IC.

What's an IC?

It means I'm confirmed town. This is because I claimed town in my second post.

[J Reggie]

Third post, sorry.

[McGarnacle]

But I'm not scummy. I'm an IC.

What's an IC?

It means I'm confirmed town. This is because I claimed town in my second post.

Great, thanks!

[pingpongsam]

But I'm not scummy. I'm an IC.

What's an IC?

It means I'm confirmed town. This is because I claimed town in my second post.

Great, thanks!

aka Innocent Child

[Zigaton]

Nice.Killing me, you reduce your chances of winning.Do you want to know my view? vote:pacovf

[Zigaton]

Zigaton, do you have a basic idea of what's going on? Do you have any questions? If you have no idea of what's going on, post a short list of what you think of every player. It doesn't necessarily have to be based on facts, just the general feel you get from each player is enough, even if you can't quite explain them.

Thanks for the help. I got it.

[McGarnacle]

Nice.Killing me, you reduce your chances of winning.Do you want to know my view? vote:pacovf

Sorry man, nothing personal. I just really think you are scum. And we don't tolerate mafia in our town!

[pacovf]

Nice.Killing me, you reduce your chances of winning.Do you want to know my view? vote:pacovf

What has changed? Why vote for me after your unvote?

[pacovf]

Also, J Reggie, it would be nice if you posted something of substance.

[Zigaton]

Nice.Killing me, you reduce your chances of winning.Do you want to know my view? vote:pacovf

Sorry man, nothing personal. I just really think you are scum. And we don't tolerate mafia in our town!

it is because I am Russian?I think you voted for me to don't be the suspect.Have you real reason to kill me?

[Zigaton]

Nice.Killing me, you reduce your chances of winning.Do you want to know my view? vote:pacovf

What has changed? Why vote for me after your unvote?

Because you voted for me,but obviously I'm not mafia.
It doesn't necessarily have to be based on facts, just the general feel you get from each player is enough, even if you can't quite explain them.©pacovf

[pacovf]

Fair enough. What's your position on the other players? Am I the only one you would like to see lynched?

[Roadrunner7671]

Here

[Roadrunner7671]

Voting for me doesn't magically make me come back by the way. I don't lurk in the game and I don't get a magical notification of I get a vote

[J Reggie]

Voting for me doesn't magically make me come back by the way. I don't lurk in the game and I don't get a magical notification of I get a vote

You should set it up so you do!

Also, J Reggie, it would be nice if you posted something of substance.

I'll try. It's hard though.

[J Reggie]

Hmm what's the vote count? My worries about lynching zigaton D1 are more for meta reasons. We usually give complete newbies a D1 pass so that they don't rage quit mafia in general over a bad experience. Also I have no idea whether he's just newbie!town cautious or newbie!scum cautious. I'm going to unvote for now.

[Roadrunner7671]

Ew I used 'magic' twice in one sentence

[McGarnacle]

Hmm what's the vote count? My worries about lynching zigaton D1 are more for meta reasons. We usually give complete newbies a D1 pass so that they don't rage quit mafia in general over a bad experience. Also I have no idea whether he's just newbie!town cautious or newbie!scum cautious. I'm going to unvote for now.

Okay, but if I die, for the record, my last words were: "Zigaton...is...scum" *collapses in pool of own blood*

[McGarnacle]

Nice.Killing me, you reduce your chances of winning.Do you want to know my view? vote:pacovf

Sorry man, nothing personal. I just really think you are scum. And we don't tolerate mafia in our town!

it is because I am Russian?I think you voted for me to don't be the suspect.Have you real reason to kill me?

No, I have nothing against you personally, I just think you've a) been very quiet b) haven't really added anything to the discussion and c) now accuse me of being scum to take the pressure off of you.

Also, if I was mafia, I would try to get a vet mislynched because (no offense) they would be more dangerous to the mafia then a newbie.

[Zigaton]

Fair enough. What's your position on the other players? Am I the only one you would like to see lynched?

everyone who voted for me, maybe the Mafia. Since killing me, mafia get one more day.
LaLight-he protected me. If he was a mafia, he would not have done it.If he was a mafia,my death would be useful for him.Mafia -20%
J Reggie-he unvote,and I thank him.But it can be a professional player.He's just trying to confuse us Mafia-20%
McGarnacle-scum.Mafia 70%
Pacovf-good player.I'm not sure that it is the mafia. Too good player.but he votes for me. And it scares.Mafia-50%

[pacovf]

[LaLight]

I see.

[LaLight]

this is getting interesting for me as a linguist: you don't just try to win, you try to make some understanding and analyzing in such circumstances. Cool. Coolcoolcool. Saying more about the game, IMO McGarnacle being made up some case on Zigaton, who is the perfect target for D1 lynch cause he posts not very much. It is convenient for McGarnacle here because he doesn't try to lynch any veteran or something. Well. Good play McGarnacle, though I will still continue to vote on you.

[McGarnacle]

this is getting interesting for me as a linguist: you don't just try to win, you try to make some understanding and analyzing in such circumstances. Cool. Coolcoolcool. Saying more about the game, IMO McGarnacle being made up some case on Zigaton, who is the perfect target for D1 lynch cause he posts not very much. It is convenient for McGarnacle here because he doesn't try to lynch any veteran or something. Well. Good play McGarnacle, though I will still continue to vote on you.

Actually, if I was mafia, I would try to get a vet lynched. Plus, bare in mind, I'm almost as newbie as Zigaton, so unfortunately I'm not quite the evil mastermind you take me for.

[SpaceAnemone]

this is getting interesting for me as a linguist: you don't just try to win, you try to make some understanding and analyzing in such circumstances. Cool. Coolcoolcool. Saying more about the game, IMO McGarnacle being made up some case on Zigaton, who is the perfect target for D1 lynch cause he posts not very much. It is convenient for McGarnacle here because he doesn't try to lynch any veteran or something. Well. Good play McGarnacle, though I will still continue to vote on you.

Actually, if I was mafia, I would try to get a vet lynched. Plus, bare in mind, I'm almost as newbie as Zigaton, so unfortunately I'm not quite the evil mastermind you take me for.

Yeah, but if you're Mafia, you've got an experienced buddy who's told you what to say and how to behave, since I don't really see you being partners with either LaLight or Zigaton. I think you're being vaguely suspicious, like enough to leave my RVS vote on you for now, but you also seem a bit cocky, and you use the word scum a whole lot.. I feel like that probably leans townie. Does anyone with more experience know how the psychology works for that?

[SpaceAnemone]

Also, I think one thing that's making it harder to move this game along is that our conversations are getting stratified into newbies and old hands. I feel like the oldies want to make it interesting for themselves by playing a deep game around those of us who haven't quite got the skills yet. But if we don't get the old and new people interacting more, then not a lot is going to happen.

I think having RR and J Reggie here and active and being bridge-like would really help :-)

[Roadrunner7671]

this is getting interesting for me as a linguist: you don't just try to win, you try to make some understanding and analyzing in such circumstances. Cool. Coolcoolcool. Saying more about the game, IMO McGarnacle being made up some case on Zigaton, who is the perfect target for D1 lynch cause he posts not very much. It is convenient for McGarnacle here because he doesn't try to lynch any veteran or something. Well. Good play McGarnacle, though I will still continue to vote on you.

Actually, if I was mafia, I would try to get a vet lynched. Plus, bare in mind, I'm almost as newbie as Zigaton, so unfortunately I'm not quite the evil mastermind you take me for.

Yeah, but if you're Mafia, you've got an experienced buddy who's told you what to say and how to behave, since I don't really see you being partners with either LaLight or Zigaton. I think you're being vaguely suspicious, like enough to leave my RVS vote on you for now, but you also seem a bit cocky, and you use the word scum a whole lot.. I feel like that probably leans townie. Does anyone with more experience know how the psychology works for that?

There's really no psychology for that. I don't think his cockiness or him using the word scum should impact your reads

[Roadrunner7671]

Also, I think one thing that's making it harder to move this game along is that our conversations are getting stratified into newbies and old hands. I feel like the oldies want to make it interesting for themselves by playing a deep game around those of us who haven't quite got the skills yet. But if we don't get the old and new people interacting more, then not a lot is going to happen.

I think having RR and J Reggie here and active and being bridge-like would really help :-)

Whassup?

[McGarnacle]

Also, I think one thing that's making it harder to move this game along is that our conversations are getting stratified into newbies and old hands. I feel like the oldies want to make it interesting for themselves by playing a deep game around those of us who haven't quite got the skills yet. But if we don't get the old and new people interacting more, then not a lot is going to happen.

I think having RR and J Reggie here and active and being bridge-like would really help :-)

Whassup?

Who do YOU think is suspicious?

[SpaceAnemone]

Also, I think one thing that's making it harder to move this game along is that our conversations are getting stratified into newbies and old hands. I feel like the oldies want to make it interesting for themselves by playing a deep game around those of us who haven't quite got the skills yet. But if we don't get the old and new people interacting more, then not a lot is going to happen.

I think having RR and J Reggie here and active and being bridge-like would really help :-)

Whassup?

Yay, I call and you appear -- that's cool! :-) Can we make some more discussion happen, of the sort where Ash/PPS/Paco actually converse with the newbies in a constructive way?

[pingpongsam]

I think I've been rather conversational and trying to fill in the gaps where needed. I'm not sure what is not constructive about my posts. The game has actually moved along fairly well for D1. Once a flip or two is in things will pick up quite a bit because everyone will have their interpretation of what it means. Also, if we have any night action results from PRs it gets especially thick.

At this point it is about corralling the votes towards a lynch. I'm still currently happy with my vote where it is as I've seen nothing that convinces me it is in the wrong place nor that there might be a better place.

[McGarnacle]

I think I've been rather conversational and trying to fill in the gaps where needed. I'm not sure what is not constructive about my posts. The game has actually moved along fairly well for D1. Once a flip or two is in things will pick up quite a bit because everyone will have their interpretation of what it means. Also, if we have any night action results from PRs it gets especially thick.

At this point it is about corralling the votes towards a lynch. I'm still currently happy with my vote where it is as I've seen nothing that convinces me it is in the wrong place nor that there might be a better place.

Who did you vote for?

[ashersky]

this is getting interesting for me as a linguist: you don't just try to win, you try to make some understanding and analyzing in such circumstances. Cool. Coolcoolcool. Saying more about the game, IMO McGarnacle being made up some case on Zigaton, who is the perfect target for D1 lynch cause he posts not very much. It is convenient for McGarnacle here because he doesn't try to lynch any veteran or something. Well. Good play McGarnacle, though I will still continue to vote on you.

Actually, if I was mafia, I would try to get a vet lynched. Plus, bare in mind, I'm almost as newbie as Zigaton, so unfortunately I'm not quite the evil mastermind you take me for.

Yeah, but if you're Mafia, you've got an experienced buddy who's told you what to say and how to behave, since I don't really see you being partners with either LaLight or Zigaton. I think you're being vaguely suspicious, like enough to leave my RVS vote on you for now, but you also seem a bit cocky, and you use the word scum a whole lot.. I feel like that probably leans townie. Does anyone with more experience know how the psychology works for that?

There's really no psychology for that. I don't think his cockiness or him using the word scum should impact your reads

Scummy response from RR.

[SpaceAnemone]

I think I've been rather conversational and trying to fill in the gaps where needed. I'm not sure what is not constructive about my posts. The game has actually moved along fairly well for D1. Once a flip or two is in things will pick up quite a bit because everyone will have their interpretation of what it means. Also, if we have any night action results from PRs it gets especially thick.

At this point it is about corralling the votes towards a lynch. I'm still currently happy with my vote where it is as I've seen nothing that convinces me it is in the wrong place nor that there might be a better place.

I'm pretty sure you and Ash have something else entirely going on at a higher level, but I want to believe it's meta-stuff rooted experience rather than malice. Besides, I think we've already agreed that if you two are scum together we're screwed anyway.

I don't like the corralling thing you mention, though... isn't the whole point of D1 was to get people talking and into the game? Otherwise, why would it be so long. We have zero information to go on, so we have to make people talk to each other.

Unofficial Vote Count

pingpongsam (1): pacovf
LaLight (1): pingpongsam
McGarnacle (3): SpaceAnemone, Roadrunner7671, LaLight
RoadRunner7671 (1): ashersky
Zigaton (1): McGarnacle
pacovf (1): Zigaton

Not Voting (1): J Reggie

Ultra-helpy LaLight is just town LaLight as far as I've seen elsewhere, so that's not a D1 option for me. I seem to have started the one and only actual wagon, so if you just wanted to kill people, you'd be on that one instead. @Ash and @Paco, what am I missing here?

[McGarnacle]

Man, I have no idea what to think. I only have one real scum read, and Zigaton's defense seems even more scummy to me. Apart from that, though, I have no idea.

[ashersky]

Space is reading towny.

[J Reggie]

I guess I could see a McGarnacle-zigaton scum team.

[ashersky]

I guess I could see a McGarnacle-zigaton scum team.

Do you really think one would bus the other in that newbie team-up?

[ashersky]

Also, had a thought, but I think if the Rolecop is in the game, it would be good to claim.  I can explain after.

[J Reggie]

I guess I could see a McGarnacle-zigaton scum team.

Do you really think one would bus the other in that newbie team-up?

It's possible. It doesn't currently look like zigaton is getting lynched.

[J Reggie]

Also, had a thought, but I think if the Rolecop is in the game, it would be good to claim.  I can explain after.

Yeah, the rolecop should definitely claim.

[McGarnacle]

I guess I could see a McGarnacle-zigaton scum team.

I agree with half of this.

If Zigaton and I are scum, we've already lost.

I would actually be fine getting lynched if you lynch Zigaton after me. Town would then have a big advantage, with only one scum left and  5 town.

[Zigaton]

I guess I could see a McGarnacle-zigaton scum team.

Nope.pacovf first voted for me.I do not know why McGarnacle thinks I Mafia.Then everyone started to think that I Mafia.
P.S.I'm not sure,but unvote

[McGarnacle]

What can the rolecop do?

[pingpongsam]

I'm pretty sure you and Ash have something else entirely going on at a higher leve...

Nah, he didn't open with "I have a plan", so I'm totally lost now.

I don't like the corralling thing you mention, though... isn't the whole point of D1 was to get people talking and into the game? Otherwise, why would it be so long. We have zero information to go on, so we have to make people talk to each other.

Yeah, we need to talk and all but the real deal is the day ends and it would be really dumb to go no lynch so face the facts; at some point we have to agree on a lynch. If it's going to be a mislynch usually scum is doing the corralling so scum would be uncomfortable with that notion being brought out so explicitly. Expect a scum lynch to be fairly hard to come by since they are very unlikely to help in that. Quite positive paco is town just because the wagon went way too quickly to L-1. I suppose there could be some early bussing that got out of hand (so LaLight is a prime suspect, there) or it just happened like that and somebody got scared of being on the tail end of it and forcing it through (oh, look, LaLight is the bad guy, again).

Ultra-helpy LaLight is just town LaLight as far as I've seen elsewhere, so that's not a D1 option for me. I seem to have started the one and only actual wagon, so if you just wanted to kill people, you'd be on that one instead. @Ash and @Paco, what am I missing here?

You see ultra-helpy and I see scum wanting cred in the few places he can get it. I'm not arguing with your position so much as substantiating mine. Paco was the first actual wagon, McGarnacle just happens to be the current one so your next sentence there is not entirely true especially since ash technically started it through suggestion you just happened to vote first. I don't want to just kill people I want to kill the right people.

[pingpongsam]

What can the rolecop do?

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Role_Cop

[McGarnacle]

What can the rolecop do?

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Role_Cop

Yeah that would be great. Too bad I'm not the rolecop!

[pingpongsam]

Also, had a thought, but I think if the Rolecop is in the game, it would be good to claim.  I can explain after.

I'm going to risk scum points for reading the setup, here. Rolecop is a scum role in this game. Not sure even the rankest noob is dumb enough to fall for that ploy so I assume you weren't going for that angle?

[SpaceAnemone]

I would actually be fine getting lynched if you lynch Zigaton after me. Town would then have a big advantage, with only one scum left and  5 town.

That would sound great, if you can prove that it really has to be the case that one or other of you is scum.

[pacovf]

At work, and fairly busy this week, but I need to read more calmly McGarnacle. He's strange. He's forcing interactions with people though, that's good!

Zigaton's answers are so over-the-top I honestly don't know what to think.

SpaceAnemone is conf!town as far as I am concerned. There's no way he's faking it. How many games have you played, again? Speaking of which, I feel like the vets are actually interacting enough with the newbies, it's just that we know each other's metas better, so we can make conclusions with less information. Newbies can be harder to figure out (cf Zigaton)

[pacovf]

We've still got what 5 days till the end of the day, so we don't need to rush for a lynch quite yet. Before I reread again, PPS or Zigaton would be ok lynches, so would be McGarnacle and Lalight, and I am promoting J Reggie to lynchable by virtue of me not remembering if h's done anything memorable yet. RR and McG would be the main targets of a reread, I think.

[pacovf]

Also I seriously doubt that both PPS and ash are scum. Game would feel very different if they were.

[Zigaton]

I'm pretty sure you and Ash have something else entirely going on at a higher leve...

Nah, he didn't open with "I have a plan", so I'm totally lost now.

I don't like the corralling thing you mention, though... isn't the whole point of D1 was to get people talking and into the game? Otherwise, why would it be so long. We have zero information to go on, so we have to make people talk to each other.

Yeah, we need to talk and all but the real deal is the day ends and it would be really dumb to go no lynch so face the facts; at some point we have to agree on a lynch. If it's going to be a mislynch usually scum is doing the corralling so scum would be uncomfortable with that notion being brought out so explicitly. Expect a scum lynch to be fairly hard to come by since they are very unlikely to help in that. Quite positive paco is town just because the wagon went way too quickly to L-1. I suppose there could be some early bussing that got out of hand (so LaLight is a prime suspect, there) or it just happened like that and somebody got scared of being on the tail end of it and forcing it through (oh, look, LaLight is the bad guy, again).

Ultra-helpy LaLight is just town LaLight as far as I've seen elsewhere, so that's not a D1 option for me. I seem to have started the one and only actual wagon, so if you just wanted to kill people, you'd be on that one instead. @Ash and @Paco, what am I missing here?

You see ultra-helpy and I see scum wanting cred in the few places he can get it. I'm not arguing with your position so much as substantiating mine. Paco was the first actual wagon, McGarnacle just happens to be the current one so your next sentence there is not entirely true especially since ash technically started it through suggestion you just happened to vote first. I don't want to just kill people I want to kill the right people.

What are these facts?For example?
P.S. Specially for newbie

[Roadrunner7671]

Also, I think one thing that's making it harder to move this game along is that our conversations are getting stratified into newbies and old hands. I feel like the oldies want to make it interesting for themselves by playing a deep game around those of us who haven't quite got the skills yet. But if we don't get the old and new people interacting more, then not a lot is going to happen.

I think having RR and J Reggie here and active and being bridge-like would really help :-)

Whassup?

Yay, I call and you appear -- that's cool! :-) Can we make some more discussion happen, of the sort where Ash/PPS/Paco actually converse with the newbies in a constructive way?

Sure.

Ash, PPS and Paco: talk to the newbies more. But be constructive.

[J Reggie]

We've still got what 5 days till the end of the day, so we don't need to rush for a lynch quite yet. Before I reread again, PPS or Zigaton would be ok lynches, so would be McGarnacle and Lalight, and I am promoting J Reggie to lynchable by virtue of me not remembering if h's done anything memorable yet. RR and McG would be the main targets of a reread, I think.

I'm not lynchable. I claimed IC.

[J Reggie]

Also as far as doing stuff, I just proposed a possible scum team.

[silverspawn]

Vote Count 1.5

pingpongsam (1): pacovf
LaLight (1): pingpongsam
McGarnacle (3): SpaceAnemone, Roadrunner7671, LaLight
Zigaton (1): McGarnacle
Roadrunner7671 (1): ashersky

Not Voting (2): J Reggie, Zigaton

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Sep 26, 22:00 forum time. That is in 5 days and 6+ hours.

[McGarnacle]

Well, its starting to look like me won't lynch Zigaton after all.

[McGarnacle]

Well, its starting to look like we won't lynch Zigaton after all.

[silverspawn]

Sidenote: If I miss any votes because new nicknames were used, feel free to point them out. I'll make a decision of whether or not to include them as valid. Also, should someone disapprove of a nickname they got, feel free to point that out too, and I will most likely make it invalid.

[McGarnacle]

I meant "we" not "me"

[pingpongsam]

Well, its starting to look like me won't lynch Zigaton after all.

There's 5 days remaining. That's a terrifically long time for things to change several times over.

[pacovf]

Well, its starting to look like me won't lynch Zigaton after all.

Well, not with that attitude.

Also, wagons are a lot more volatile as the deadline approaches. From where I am standing, I'd say Zigaton and Lalight seem like the most likely lynches right now. But somebody could say something scummy before then, or come up with a case, or what have you.

[pingpongsam]

What are these facts?For example?
P.S. Specially for newbie

I'm not sure I follow. The fact I was referring to was the one about the day will end and if we don't lynch somebody we will just start D2 with one of us dead and maybe some worthwhile night action results if we are lucky but more likely we will be in no better position than now. I brought this up because the inevitability of avoiding the above situation is getting a lynch vote in. SA said they didn't like the notion of corralling votes but that is exactly what will have to happen.

[pingpongsam]

This game is a little odd because I'm generally suspicious of theory talk and definitely not used to engaging in it except in RMM (considering I usually horribly misunderstand my role and the POEs so I just don't even then), but here it seems fairly warranted because it is being explicitly requested.

[SpaceAnemone]

SpaceAnemone is conf!town as far as I am concerned. There's no way they're faking it. How many games have you played, again?

Please see my pronoun fix in the quote :-) I'm a non-binary female feminist humanoid who's tired of the whole "default male" thing.

The only game I've played to completion is Haddock's BSG one. I played one day of Olympics Mafia but then I got NKd. Right now I'm also in a game running parallel to this, but it's current, which I think makes in unmentionable. I used to play a particular variant of in-person werewolf a few years back, but the rules were actually different enough to Mafia that it's gotten me into trouble more than it's helped me with forum mafia so far, I think.

[J Reggie]

Sorry McGarnacle. L-1.

vote: McGarnacle

[Zigaton]

Well, its starting to look like me won't lynch Zigaton after all.

Well, not with that attitude.

Also, wagons are a lot more volatile as the deadline approaches. From where I am standing, I'd say Zigaton and Lalight seem like the most likely lynches right now. But somebody could say something scummy before then, or come up with a case, or what have you.

It's not fair. Why do you think so? The fact that we're friends does not mean that we are a mafia. He protected me just because I'm a newbie and not good at English. I do not know whether or not it is the mafia. He can be a mafia.

[LaLight]

Well, its starting to look like me won't lynch Zigaton after all.

Well, not with that attitude.

Also, wagons are a lot more volatile as the deadline approaches. From where I am standing, I'd say Zigaton and Lalight seem like the most likely lynches right now. But somebody could say something scummy before then, or come up with a case, or what have you.

It's not fair. Why do you think so? The fact that we're friends does not mean that we are a mafia. He protected me just because I'm a newbie and not good at English. I do not know whether or not it is the mafia. He can be a mafia.

Actually noone thinks we're scums because of our friendship. We're both just suspicious i guess

[McGarnacle]

Okay, so if one more person votes for me, I get lynched. After a majority votes, do I die instantly or do I have time to mount a final defense?

[LaLight]

Okay, so if one more person votes for me, I get lynched. After a majority votes, do I die instantly or do I have time to mount a final defense?

you will be able to speak more for some time, so-called Twilight, but you will be already lynched on that point.

[LaLight]

Okay, so if one more person votes for me, I get lynched. After a majority votes, do I die instantly or do I have time to mount a final defense?

So your final defense is kinda now.

[McGarnacle]

Okay, so if one more person votes for me, I get lynched. After a majority votes, do I die instantly or do I have time to mount a final defense?

you will be able to speak more for some time, so-called Twilight, but you will be already lynched on that point.

Can anyone verify this? I will be afk all die, so please don't lynch me till I get back. 

[McGarnacle]

"day" not "die" what an unfortunate choice of words.

[pacovf]

After the last vote is cast, you are guaranteed to die, and you get to speak until the mod sees that last vote and closes the thread.

I haven't been following the game super closely the last two days, can someone remind me why we think McG is scum?

[LaLight]

After the last vote is cast, you are guaranteed to die, and you get to speak until the mod sees that last vote and closes the thread.

I haven't been following the game super closely the last two days, can someone remind me why we think McG is scum?

there is three cases on him from me personally:

1) Pushing on Zigaton without any explanations other than "he's scummy"
2) Repeating phrase "If I was scum, I would"
3) Emoji thing.

[McGarnacle]

After the last vote is cast, you are guaranteed to die, and you get to speak until the mod sees that last vote and closes the thread.

I haven't been following the game super closely the last two days, can someone remind me why we think McG is scum?

there is three cases on him from me personally:

1) Pushing on Zigaton without any explanations other than "he's scummy"
2) Repeating phrase "If I was scum, I would"
3) Emoji thing.

1) I listed plenty of reasons for going after Zigaton a few pages back. a) he posts rarely, and mainly just to defend himself and
b) Pretty much his defense when I attacked him was "maybe YOUR scum, and you are just trying to deflect suspicion from yourself", which I think is a week defense.
2) I repeated "If I was scum I would" when people accused me and I tried to show why my current course of action would be inconsistent with the goals of the mafia.
3) Look at my other posts on f.ds, I use a lot of emojis.

[McGarnacle]

Here is a reiteration of my reasons for accusing Zigaton.

Nice.Killing me, you reduce your chances of winning.Do you want to know my view? vote:pacovf

Sorry man, nothing personal. I just really think you are scum. And we don't tolerate mafia in our town!

it is because I am Russian?I think you voted for me to don't be the suspect.Have you real reason to kill me?

No, I have nothing against you personally, I just think you've a) been very quiet b) haven't really added anything to the discussion and c) now accuse me of being scum to take the pressure off of you.

Also, if I was mafia, I would try to get a vet mislynched because (no offense) they would be more dangerous to the mafia then a newbie.

[LaLight]

After the last vote is cast, you are guaranteed to die, and you get to speak until the mod sees that last vote and closes the thread.

I haven't been following the game super closely the last two days, can someone remind me why we think McG is scum?

there is three cases on him from me personally:

1) Pushing on Zigaton without any explanations other than "he's scummy"
2) Repeating phrase "If I was scum, I would"
3) Emoji thing.

1) I listed plenty of reasons for going after Zigaton a few pages back. a) he posts rarely, and mainly just to defend himself and
b) Pretty much his defense when I attacked him was "maybe YOUR scum, and you are just trying to deflect suspicion from yourself", which I think is a week defense.
2) I repeated "If I was scum I would" when people accused me and I tried to show why my current course of action would be inconsistent with the goals of the mafia.
3) Look at my other posts on f.ds, I use a lot of emojis.

3) not the using of it as it is. When someone told "scum likes to use emojis" you made a post made of them.

Also, I remembered:
4) Fluffiness as it is. Trying to speak about many things that are not about the game.

[McGarnacle]

After the last vote is cast, you are guaranteed to die, and you get to speak until the mod sees that last vote and closes the thread.

I haven't been following the game super closely the last two days, can someone remind me why we think McG is scum?

there is three cases on him from me personally:

1) Pushing on Zigaton without any explanations other than "he's scummy"
2) Repeating phrase "If I was scum, I would"
3) Emoji thing.

1) I listed plenty of reasons for going after Zigaton a few pages back. a) he posts rarely, and mainly just to defend himself and
b) Pretty much his defense when I attacked him was "maybe YOUR scum, and you are just trying to deflect suspicion from yourself", which I think is a week defense.
2) I repeated "If I was scum I would" when people accused me and I tried to show why my current course of action would be inconsistent with the goals of the mafia.
3) Look at my other posts on f.ds, I use a lot of emojis.

3) not the using of it as it is. When someone told "scum likes to use emojis" you made a post made of them.

Also, I remembered:
4) Fluffiness as it is. Trying to speak about many things that are not about the game.

Because "scum use emojis" sounds dumb to me.

I've talked about stuff not in the game.

[pingpongsam]

If anyone intends to hammer they should announce intent to do so well before actually following through with it. (hammer means cast the final vote, which BTW is my favorite thing ever and same for ashersky).

I have a comment on the McGarnacle debacle (hehe, see what I did there?) but I'd like to wait a bit before posting it.

[J Reggie]

vote: McGarnacle

[LaLight]

vote: McGarnacle

Why did you do this?

[J Reggie]

vote: McGarnacle

Why not?

Why did you do this?

[LaLight]

vote: McGarnacle

Why not?

Why did you do this?

You should give him time to claim.
McGarnacle you can safely claim now. You're dead.

[J Reggie]

And if you know why I did it please don't say.

[LaLight]

And if you know why I did it please don't say.

it's no fhun to do such things

[pingpongsam]

And if you know why I did it please don't say.

it's no fhun to do such things

actually, it's pretty hilarious because of you

[LaLight]

And if you know why I did it please don't say.

it's no fhun to do such things

actually, it's pretty hilarious because of you

=P

[pacovf]

vote: McGarnacle

I disapprove. Especially in a newbie game.

[pingpongsam]

vote: McGarnacle

I disapprove. Especially in a newbie game.

The question is, do you think what he did was scummy? Do you even know what he did?

[pacovf]

vote: McGarnacle

I disapprove. Especially in a newbie game.

The question is, do you think what he did was scummy? Do you even know what he did?

No. Yes. I hope the reason I disapprove is obvious enough, if not, I will spell it out in due time.

[pingpongsam]

vote: McGarnacle

I disapprove. Especially in a newbie game.

The question is, do you think what he did was scummy? Do you even know what he did?

No. Yes. I hope the reason I disapprove is obvious enough, if not, I will spell it out in due time.

I am trying to figure out if it was a scummy thing to do. McGarnacle was already L-1 so town!JReg wasn't forcing a claim unless he was hoping scum!McG would out himself in "twilight". I don't see a scum motivation for it at all. So, pretty null on it. When you say no do you mean null or town?

[pingpongsam]

The fact that it spurns this type of discussion makes me like it, regardless.

[pacovf]

You realize that this discussion is counterproductive to what J Reggie did, right?

[pingpongsam]

You realize that this discussion is counterproductive to what J Reggie did, right?

No, because if he didn't do it we wouldn't be having the discussion.

[pacovf]

Sure. Still, I will stop posting for the time being.

[ashersky]

Makes PpS scummier, just like his reaction to my Rolecop idea.

[ashersky]

Makes PpS scummier, just like his reaction to my Rolecop idea.

Like he's protecting a newbie partner.

[LaLight]

Pps/McGarnacle team seems legit

PPE: 1

[LaLight]

I say we lynch McG and if he flips scu, lunch pps and win.

[pingpongsam]

Makes PpS scummier, just like his reaction to my Rolecop idea.

I'm scummy for reading the setup or because you thought you had some clever trap laid?

[pingpongsam]

This just in, posting about things happening in the game is scummy.

[LaLight]

Makes PpS scummier, just like his reaction to my Rolecop idea.

I'm scummy for reading the setup or because you thought you had some clever trap laid?

Yes. Actually there were two. You messed both

[pingpongsam]

I'm really confused how either was a trap. Please explain the win conditions (with a straight face).

[LaLight]

I'm really confused how either was a trap. Please explain the win conditions (with a straight face).

Reaction is the key. Someone could claim RC. Reaction to FH is always good

[ashersky]

Makes PpS scummier, just like his reaction to my Rolecop idea.

I'm scummy for reading the setup or because you thought you had some clever trap laid?

Not so clever, but as LaLight says, reactions are key.  We're learning these new players still, we need to see them figure stuff out themselves.

I still think the Rolecop, if there is one, should claim.  The pros outweigh the cons.

[J Reggie]

Ash is scum and has a plan for his partner to claim.

[pingpongsam]

Makes PpS scummier, just like his reaction to my Rolecop idea.

I'm scummy for reading the setup or because you thought you had some clever trap laid?

Not so clever, but as LaLight says, reactions are key.  We're learning these new players still, we need to see them figure stuff out themselves.

I still think the Rolecop, if there is one, should claim.  The pros outweigh the cons.

You got a reaction; I went a read the setup because I was wondering why you would make it clear you knew there was a town role cop in the game. Then I saw that it was a possible role but only as scum. This utterly confused me. I would never think to try such an obviously failed gambit, and I am not opposed to some outlandish gambits. I'll try to hang back and let these silly things play out some more, I didn't know it was going to be like that; I'm not necessarily arguing against it.

[SpaceAnemone]

Makes PpS scummier, just like his reaction to my Rolecop idea.

I'm scummy for reading the setup or because you thought you had some clever trap laid?

Not so clever, but as LaLight says, reactions are key.  We're learning these new players still, we need to see them figure stuff out themselves.

I noticed both misdirections, and felt pretty clever about having seen them and known not to say anything, so at least you guys made me feel smart :-) I learnt about querying FHs in one of my first two games, otherwise you'd have had the fun of seeing it here.

[SpaceAnemone]

You got a reaction; I went a read the setup because I was wondering why you would make it clear you knew there was a town role cop in the game. Then I saw that it was a possible role but only as scum.

I went and read the setup post so I could check what Haddock-the-role-cop would be able to do, so that I could try to understand what clever thing Ash had seen.

This utterly confused me. I would never think to try such an obviously failed gambit, and I am not opposed to some outlandish gambits. I'll try to hang back and let these silly things play out some more, I didn't know it was going to be like that; I'm not necessarily arguing against it.

Actually, a few weeks ago, I'm sure LaLight and I would also have fallen for some of that kind of stuff! But the chance of having a newbie rolecop in the game is really small, so mostly what the newbie-scum-baiting is doing is making potential scum newbies more cautious and less likely to want to say anything, I think.

[Zigaton]

After the last vote is cast, you are guaranteed to die, and you get to speak until the mod sees that last vote and closes the thread.

I haven't been following the game super closely the last two days, can someone remind me why we think McG is scum?

there is three cases on him from me personally:

1) Pushing on Zigaton without any explanations other than "he's scummy"
2) Repeating phrase "If I was scum, I would"
3) Emoji thing.

1) I listed plenty of reasons for going after Zigaton a few pages back. a) he posts rarely, and mainly just to defend himself and
b) Pretty much his defense when I attacked him was "maybe YOUR scum, and you are just trying to deflect suspicion from yourself", which I think is a week defense.
2) I repeated "If I was scum I would" when people accused me and I tried to show why my current course of action would be inconsistent with the goals of the mafia.
3) Look at my other posts on f.ds, I use a lot of emojis.

What makes you think that if I write rarely, I Mafia? I wrote that "I have a brand new and don't know what to write." Besides, if I didn't have time to write much and I'm ashamed of my English. Now I have enough free time.

[ashersky]

You got a reaction; I went a read the setup because I was wondering why you would make it clear you knew there was a town role cop in the game. Then I saw that it was a possible role but only as scum.

I went and read the setup post so I could check what Haddock-the-role-cop would be able to do, so that I could try to understand what clever thing Ash had seen.

This utterly confused me. I would never think to try such an obviously failed gambit, and I am not opposed to some outlandish gambits. I'll try to hang back and let these silly things play out some more, I didn't know it was going to be like that; I'm not necessarily arguing against it.

Actually, a few weeks ago, I'm sure LaLight and I would also have fallen for some of that kind of stuff! But the chance of having a newbie rolecop in the game is really small, so mostly what the newbie-scum-baiting is doing is making potential scum newbies more cautious and less likely to want to say anything, I think.

Even if it makes newbie scum more cautious and less likely to want to say anything, well that's a thing we can notice, right?

So that's a good outcome.

[McGarnacle]

Okay, I'm confused. Am I dead?

[McGarnacle]

Okay, I'm probably toast either way now, but I'm the motion tracker. I can figure out what people do at night. Of course, now if you guys don't lynch me, the mafia will. Unless town believes me and mafia doesn't, which is unlikely.

[McGarnacle]

Okay, I'm probably toast either way now, but I'm the motion tracker. I can figure out what people do at night. Of course, now if you guys don't lynch me, the mafia will. Unless town believes me and mafia doesn't, which is unlikely.

Or we could have a doctor who saves me, or something like that.

[J Reggie]

unvote unless a good counterclaim comes up, this should IC McGarnacle.

[SpaceAnemone]

unvote unless a good counterclaim comes up, this should IC McGarnacle.

unvote

[silverspawn]

Vote Count 1.6

pingpongsam (1): pacovf
LaLight (1): pingpongsam
McGarnacle (2): Roadrunner7671, LaLight
Zigaton (1): McGarnacle
Roadrunner7671 (1): ashersky

Not Voting (3): Zigaton, J Reggie, SpaceAnemone

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Sep 26, 22:00 forum time. That is in 4 days and 2+ hours.

[pacovf]

PSA: all fake claims can be counterclaimed, so if you are a town PowerRole, check the setup to see if a motion tracker is actually possible.

I doubt it's a fake claim, but still.

[pacovf]

90% sure J Reggie is town, even though I disapprove of his stunt.

[pingpongsam]

I was convinced he was VT or scum at L-1. Really surprised he claimed this late into L-1. I'm not sure claiming was a good idea. No way scum claimed this with threat of counterclaim on D1. I didn't think there was a real likelihood anyone would hammer. If they were it should be announced then a claim.

[pingpongsam]

Well now we know we have either a Cop or a Weak Visitor and scum has either a 2 shot Investigate Immune or a Roleblocker. I thought there was an obvious pairing but the more I look at it I don't think the roles can be distilled any further from knowing just one? We do know either 10, 11, or 12 was rolled.

[pacovf]

Well, let's not lose momentum here either. I am happy with my current vote on PPS. Zigaton would be an ok lynch too, but I wouldn't be unhappy to let him be until D2, where we will also have two flips to better understand whatever his deal is. Need to reread Lalight and RR to see how happy I would be about their lynches, especially after whatever has been going the past few days and that I haven't had the time to analyze yet (notably McG's claim).

I won't lynch SA or J Reggie today (and probably never), McG is presumably town, and I think I like what I've seen from ash today, so he's off the list for now.

Overall I think we're having a solid D1.

[Roadrunner7671]

Very mild scum on PPS. My evidence is mostly process of elimination

[LaLight]

vote: pps

[Zigaton]

Very mild scum on PPS. My evidence is mostly process of elimination

is that allowed? I thought at first it is necessary to prove, and then kill

[pingpongsam]

POE, how?

[Roadrunner7671]

Very mild scum on PPS. My evidence is mostly process of elimination

is that allowed? I thought at first it is necessary to prove, and then kill

There is no way to 'prove it.' That's impossible.

But if I think everyone is town but I don't feel that way about PPS, it makes logical sense to vote for him

[ashersky]

Vote count?

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.6

pingpongsam (1): pacovf
LaLight (1): pingpongsam
McGarnacle (2): Roadrunner7671, LaLight
Zigaton (1): McGarnacle
Roadrunner7671 (1): ashersky

Not Voting (3): Zigaton, J Reggie, SpaceAnemone

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Sep 26, 22:00 forum time. That is in 4 days and 2+ hours.

Never mind.

[pingpongsam]

Very mild scum on PPS. My evidence is mostly process of elimination

is that allowed? I thought at first it is necessary to prove, and then kill

There is no way to 'prove it.' That's impossible.

But if I think everyone is town but I don't feel that way about PPS, it makes logical sense to vote for him

You think everyone but me must be town despite the fact that there are 2 scum which means you are absolutely wrong about at least 1 other person and I can tell you that you are absolutely wrong about everyone altogether. In fact, maybe you are just scum yourself?

[pingpongsam]

Vote Count 1.6

pingpongsam (1): pacovf
LaLight (1): pingpongsam
McGarnacle (2): Roadrunner7671, LaLight
Zigaton (1): McGarnacle
Roadrunner7671 (1): ashersky

Not Voting (3): Zigaton, J Reggie, SpaceAnemone

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Sep 26, 22:00 forum time. That is in 4 days and 2+ hours.

Never mind.

Should note I am L-2 at this point.

[pingpongsam]

But if I think everyone is town but I don't feel that way about PPS, it makes logical sense to vote for him

That's not really POE, btw. That's just gut feel. Quit trying to act as if you came to some logical conclusion when your just shooting in the dark like the rest of us. The only logical conclusion we can make about anyone right now is McGarnacle.

[pingpongsam]

In fact, looking at the McGarnacle wagon I see my prime suspect LaLight and then RR both move their vote directly to me once they forced a claim out of a townie. The only other voters were SA and JR (who are the only ones I think appear to actually maybe be town around here).

I'll go with my D1 meta and call a scum team of RR/LaLight. My vote stands.

[pingpongsam]

Also, just realized RR didn't vote me. Thought he did. Apologies for any confusion about that, not L-2 after all.

[pingpongsam]

Anyhow, since I have a busy day ahead;

confTown:
McGarnacle

Maybe town:
J Reggie
SA

Null (from light to dark):
pacovf
ashersky
zigaton

Scum:
RR
LaLight

[J Reggie]

This feels like scum!RR. Let's vote: RR.

[McGarnacle]

Very mild scum on PPS. My evidence is mostly process of elimination

is that allowed? I thought at first it is necessary to prove, and then kill

@Zigaton, what do you think of LaLight?

[Roadrunner7671]

Stop trying to read me

[J Reggie]

Stop trying to read me

Ok, I'll just keep voting for you instead.

[LaLight]

Stop trying to read me

Isn't this one of the points of the game, especially D1?

[SpaceAnemone]

Stop trying to read me

Isn't this one of the points of the game, especially D1?

Yeah, I thought so too! I mean, I was amused by RR's over-direct approach in helping me out when I asked him to help facilitate more newbie-oldie interaction, but I think he's being a bit too efficient with his use of language just now :-( Will read things more later tonight when I'm home, though.

[Roadrunner7671]

It never works though. I've never gotten lynched on D1 or D2 as scum. I'm just the default on D1 if we can't find anyone else

[J Reggie]

It never works though. I've never gotten lynched on D1 or D2 as scum. I'm just the default on D1 if we can't find anyone else

That doesn't mean that if we lynch you now you won't be scum.  You seem different from your normal town self.  Maybe there's a reason for that, like you're in school, but saying "you can't read me" doesn't help your case. 

[Roadrunner7671]

It never works though. I've never gotten lynched on D1 or D2 as scum. I'm just the default on D1 if we can't find anyone else

That doesn't mean that if we lynch you now you won't be scum.  You seem different from your normal town self.  Maybe there's a reason for that, like you're in school, but saying "you can't read me" doesn't help your case.

I've been less active because of school but I don't think it's changed my style at all. But no, I'm not scum.

And it might not help my case but apparently it's true!

[SpaceAnemone]

So I've been doing a re-read, intending to make a whole reads list. The "scary three" of Ash, PPS and Paco are difficult, because I think they could just manipulate stuff too easily to be read by the rest of us. (Originally I'd put Paco in the same bunch as JR and RR, but I think he seems to know what's going on a lot more, so I'm counting him as super-experienced now).

I think LaLight is being absolutely town!LaLight, and McGarnacle is IC, which is nice. Are we giving Zigaton a D1 pass? It's not like it's possible for him to be the only scum out there anyway, and leaving a less-experienced scum for later probably makes a lot of sense.

So then I'm left with JR and RR, and I expected my reread to back up JR's case on RR, but it doesn't. JR is so absent early on that he'd posted more stuff before it had started than in its early pages. He voted for Paco because of his opening statement about not being Mafia (#68), then later made a point of saying it's something you'd only do as town (#96), and then goes on to say he's town a whole bunch of times, which is essentially the same thing as being not Mafia.

He's quite jumpy about votes, like saying he won't vote for Zigaton, then voting for him, then going back to RR, who he'd been voting for earlier. Actually, he seems to be quite against RR in general, when RR's actually not really said anything too suspicious (though it would be good if he'd interact more!). Do scums do fake hammers to look townie? Especially ones who know there are some newbie-but-learning people like me and LaLight who might then assume he's good? I think this might be like WIFOM, but I'm still generally not liking it.

Vote: J Reggie

[ashersky]

Disagree completely with SA's J Reg case.

Strong town read on SA.

[J Reggie]

Disagree completely with SA's J Reg case.

Strong town read on SA.

Agree with this except for the "strong" part.

[SpaceAnemone]

Disagree completely with SA's J Reg case.

Strong town read on SA.

Huh... you do subtly patronising quite well :-P

If my case is so wrong, why not help me learn how to do it better by saying something constructive? You're voting RR when I think he just feels pretty time-constrained-- what tells am I missing there? You didn't exactly explain anything about it when you voted, and the other person on that wagon is my strongest scum-read, so I'm not feeling particularly like trusting that one.

[SpaceAnemone]

Quick note to say that I'm not going to away and without a computer from now till late on Sunday. I'll have my phone for reading, but it's a real pain to post anything, so that probably won't happen more than the bare minimum. Please have lots of exciting conversation without me though :-)

[pacovf]

Obviously I don't know what ash thinks, but I can tell you this:

So then I'm left with JR and RR, and I expected my reread to back up JR's case on RR, but it doesn't. JR is so absent early on that he'd posted more stuff before it had started than in its early pages. He voted for Paco because of his opening statement about not being Mafia (#68), then later made a point of saying it's something you'd only do as town (#96), and then goes on to say he's town a whole bunch of times, which is essentially the same thing as being not Mafia.

This is not very strong. In the early stages of the game, people usually vote randomly, to try to get real interactions started. Once things start to develop, people get more serious about their votes. So him voting for me in RVS (Random Voting Stage), then saying that he actually thinks I am town and unvoting is not scummy at all.

He's quite jumpy about votes, like saying he won't vote for Zigaton, then voting for him, then going back to RR, who he'd been voting for earlier. Actually, he seems to be quite against RR in general, when RR's actually not really said anything too suspicious (though it would be good if he'd interact more!).

I think he said that he wanted to give a newbie D1 pass to Zigaton, which doesn't say much about what his position on him is. When other people disagreed about newbie D1 passes, he started voting for him.

Focussing on a player can be a townie thing to do. Townies often get tunnel vision on a player. Of course, mafia can fake this, which helps make them less accountable if somebody else gets lynched, but they are sort of giving up their vote.

Basically, these two arguments are weak-ish, because they are not much more likely to come from scum than from mafia. If, say, we lynched PPS and he flipped scum, then you could say that J Reggie focussing on RR so much right now would be scummy, because he would be trying to deflect from a PPS lynch. But with the information we have right now, I don't see it.

Do scums do fake hammers to look townie? Especially ones who know there are some newbie-but-learning people like me and LaLight who might then assume he's good? I think this might be like WIFOM, but I'm still generally not liking it.

This is the part that makes it particularly unlikely that J Reggie is scum. We now know that McG is town. Let's assume that J Reggie is scum (noted scum!JR), and McG is a Vanilla Townie (noted VT!McG), because back then we didn't know McG had a PR (Power Role).

So scum!JR sees McG at L-1, with town being generably agreeable to lynching him. It wasn't guaranteed to happen, but it looked likely. scum!JR can do nothing at all, or insist on how scummy McG is. Result: D1 ends with a mislynch. Or we can fake-hammer him. Two possible results, assuming McG actually believes he is lynched: he reacts in a more or less neutral way, so we are back to L-1 without much difference. Or, much more likely, he reacts in an overwhelmingly townie way, and now nobody wants to lynch him, basically giving town a confirmed town player for no reason at all. The odds of McG reacting in a scummy way are basically zero, since he is town and believes he is lynched.

If you are scum, fake hammering a townie serves no purpose at all, and more likely than not will hurt your position, when you were already about to mislynch a townie. Considering that J Reggie is a more experienced player, the chances that he did this are close to zero. So that's why ash, PPS and me think he is town.

[Zigaton]

Very mild scum on PPS. My evidence is mostly process of elimination

is that allowed? I thought at first it is necessary to prove, and then kill

@Zigaton, what do you think of LaLight?

he may well be the Mafia. While he did not himself compromised, in addition, it can easily divert suspicion from himself. More precisely I can only say in D-2

[McGarnacle]

Very mild scum on PPS. My evidence is mostly process of elimination

is that allowed? I thought at first it is necessary to prove, and then kill

@Zigaton, what do you think of LaLight?

he may well be the Mafia. While he did not himself compromised, in addition, it can easily divert suspicion from himself. More precisely I can only say in D-2

What to do you think about PPS?

[ashersky]

Very mild scum on PPS. My evidence is mostly process of elimination

is that allowed? I thought at first it is necessary to prove, and then kill

@Zigaton, what do you think of LaLight?

he may well be the Mafia. While he did not himself compromised, in addition, it can easily divert suspicion from himself. More precisely I can only say in D-2

Why D2 specifically?

[J Reggie]

Very mild scum on PPS. My evidence is mostly process of elimination

is that allowed? I thought at first it is necessary to prove, and then kill

@Zigaton, what do you think of LaLight?

he may well be the Mafia. While he did not himself compromised, in addition, it can easily divert suspicion from himself. More precisely I can only say in D-2

Why D2 specifically?

Sounds like he's soft claiming, so let's not prod any further.

[LaLight]

Very mild scum on PPS. My evidence is mostly process of elimination

is that allowed? I thought at first it is necessary to prove, and then kill

@Zigaton, what do you think of LaLight?

he may well be the Mafia. While he did not himself compromised, in addition, it can easily divert suspicion from himself. More precisely I can only say in D-2

Why D2 specifically?

Sounds like he's soft claiming, so let's not prod any further.

If he actually is, you shouldn't have said this.

[J Reggie]

Soooooooo anyway... hey uh, pacovf, are you scum?

[pacovf]

Hum, let me see...

*checks PM*

No! Phew, was scared there for a second.

[pacovf]

After a quick reread, some notes:

RR: mentions that we want to wait before a lynch. noncommital about Lalight's wagon when it formed. a bit defensive. votes for McG (smileys). comes back from lurking, annoyed at people voting for him over lurking. actilurks a bit. very mild scum on PPS out of nowhere by pseudo poe. says he is default D1 lynch when he isn't scum

Lalight: super helpful. early vote on me, unvote when reaching L-1. Joking about McG being scum. Defending himself about unvote thing. omgus on ash. claims vt out of nowhere. bothered by people voting him over his usefulness. bothered by people not using proper nicknames. says he thinks he wants to vote for McG, but not yet. later votes for him. bothered people aren't helpful. casts suspicion on lurkiness of RR and JReggie. scuffles with McG for no reason? later attacks McG some more. defeatist over being perceived as scum. eager to lynch McG. after fake hammer says McG is dead (pretense? not noticed fake hammer?). seems to go after pps after fake hammer

McG's wagon: starts with RVS vote from SA. ash mentions scumminess of smileys, but doesn't vote. RR votes for him (cos smileys). Lalight votes for him. J reggie votes for him (quite later), then fake hammer.

I could see a RR/Lalight scum team, but well when you only reread two people it's easy to draw connections. Ok, so after this, I think my lynch preference is:

PPS > RR > lalight >> zigaton

I should reread ash too but I am feeling lazy and there's less than two days to deadline, so let's get moving people.

[Roadrunner7671]

If me and LaLight were scum buddies I'd accidentally buddy him a ton

[pacovf]

I don't know, you just feel so different from your regular games, and well acti-lurking always raises red flags. You are not necessarily Lalight's scumpartner, but you have enough strikes against you even without that.

[silverspawn]

Vote Count 1.7

pingpongsam (2): pacovf, LaLight
J Reggie (1): SpaceAnemone
LaLight (1): pingpongsam
McGarnacle (1): Roadrunner7671
Zigaton (1): McGarnacle
Roadrunner7671 (2): ashersky, J Reggie

Not Voting (1): Zigaton

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Sep 26, 22:00 forum time. That is in 44h 16m.

[pingpongsam]

I don't know, you just feel so different from your regular games, and well acti-lurking always raises red flags. You are not necessarily Lalight's scumpartner, but you have enough strikes against you even without that.

Looking at your breakdown I can't figure out why you favor RR over LaLight and especially me over the others. You still mad I pressured you?

[pacovf]

You pressured me?

Both RR and you feel a bit off from your usual playstyle. Of course once you point that out it becomes a huge meta ball, but still. I prefer you slightly over RR because you are a bit scarier, because trying to defuse the fake hammer doesn't look good (especially when you say it's ok because it created interactions or whatever), and because lynching lurkers D1 is a double edged sword. It's not a super huge preference mind you.

I prefer either of you to Lalight because he's a newbie, which is always harder to predict. Also, for what it's worth, SA insists this is normal!Lalight.

Nevertheless, either of these (or Zigaton) would make for a good lynch.

[pacovf]

I invite you to convince me otherwise though! I don't have to be the only one building cases and taking notes and everything.

Well SA is building cases too. Keep up the good work!

Also deadline in a day and a half. That's really really soon, and I won't be very available tomorrow. Everybody put your votes where it's useful. Notably, a vote on McG or J Reggie doesn't seem useful.

[Zigaton]

Very mild scum on PPS. My evidence is mostly process of elimination

is that allowed? I thought at first it is necessary to prove, and then kill

@Zigaton, what do you think of LaLight?

he may well be the Mafia. While he did not himself compromised, in addition, it can easily divert suspicion from himself. More precisely I can only say in D-2

What to do you think about PPS?

I do not know anything about him. he never contacted me. I don't think he can be a mafia.

[SpaceAnemone]

I'm on a train, so apologies for lack of useful quoting and stuff!

I've been re-reading the game, and I still think JR is iffy. The vote-jumping happened well into D1, not just in RVS, and while the FH might have looked nice for catching scum, he revealed a PR, which is really bad for us.

I feel like we might want to keep all three of the oldie people around right now because we can't trust any given one alone. We'll gain actual PR evidence soon, and we'll benefit from having them around to help make best use of it. Ash, I'd feel better if you were to say more things to balance the other two out, or at least to let us know you endorse what they're saying rather than keeping everything to yourself :-)

I agree that either RR or Zigaton could be using quiet to hide scummy natures, but I'd rather go for JR still :-( I do get that it's more useful to vote for someone who might get lynched more easily in time, but JR is way more suspicious than RR, and I guess RR would be my next choice given the D1 pass business. Is nobody else feeling this?

[pacovf]

McGarnacle would have claimed anyway, so better earlier rather than later, so that we have more time to react. That McG turned out to be a PR is irrelevant when considering the "towniness" of J Reggie's fake hammer, because he could not know he had a PR.

And the fact remains that fake-hammering town is nearly 100% a pro-town move. If a bit of a low blow, especially on a newbie. Vote jumping is simply not scummy enough to counteract the fake hammer. Maybe if he survives all the way to the last day we will take a look into it again, but I just don't see him being a good D1 lynch, at all. Pretty sure ash and PPS agree with my assessment here.

I, hum, don't really expect we will be getting PR evidence, so I wouldn't count on that. Might happen, but it's unlikely.

What do you mean with the "D1 pass business"?

[pingpongsam]

I've had both kids all weekend so I will be able to reread and post tomorrow. I'm following along today but can't get enough coherent free time to do much else.

[ashersky]

RR is the scummiest today, and seems to not have made any town lists.  I'd point out that I don't see scum buddying partners in a game like this, so that's something.

I invite you all to join the wagon on RR.

[SpaceAnemone]

What do you mean with the "D1 pass business"?

Oops.. I think the train ate my earlier response! Home again now, though :-) I was just meaning that if I'm willing to move to RR or Zigaton, then I'd go for RR first because Zigaton is super-new.

[McGarnacle]

Paco makes a good case. Not totally convinced, but we have to lynch someone.

vote:PPS

[pacovf]

I will barely be available tomorrow until very close to the deadline... Please lynch someone, or at least get them to L-1, before then...

[pacovf]

Consider my vote to be on any of PPS, RR or Lalight. Might vote for someone else if that is what it takes, but I hope it doesn't get to that.

[LaLight]

Hey! I'm sorry i was absent, there were some tough weekends.

I'd lynch either PPS or RR. I've told my reasons about PPS. RR is super-lurky. His play is so very different from all the other games. Now I'm on PPS though.

[Zigaton]

I don't understand how it happened. But why do you lynching RR?

[SpaceAnemone]

I don't understand how it happened. But why do you lynching RR?

Not saying anything is a really good way for scum to hide. Also, Ash pointed out that one of the relatively few posts RR was scummy a while back (post #290). Now he's asserting he's the scummiest person out there, presumably because he's been so lurky here, and yet usually if he's town he's more obviously helpful (he's been in the other games I've played too).

Getting a bit meta, Ash really doesn't seem to say much of anything at all here -- he's mostly acting and voting without a lot of commentary, unlike the other two oldies -- but the other two seem to respect him and not read that as suspicious, which gives me a bit more confidence in what he's saying. That's one reason I don't want to lose the super-experienced players too quickly, because second-hand meta-reading seems to be something we might be able to pull off to help us :-)

Vote: RR

[Roadrunner7671]

Tl;dr: RR is busy and Ashersky is always right.

[silverspawn]

– While he had not yet ordered his thoughts, Slampp RZJ had the distinct feeling that something important was about to happen soon . . . –

Vote Count 1.8

pingpongsam (2): pacovf, LaLight
LaLight (1): pingpongsam
McGarnacle (1): Roadrunner7671
Zigaton (1): McGarnacle
Roadrunner7671 (3): ashersky, J Reggie, SpaceAnemone

Not Voting (1): Zigaton

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Sep 26, 22:00 forum time. That is in 14h 16m.

[LaLight]

Guys, time is running out. Though I don't want to lynch RR. He was really busy.

[McGarnacle]

I think SS missed my vote.

vote: PPS

[silverspawn]

Vote Count 1.9

pingpongsam (3): pacovf, LaLight, McGarnacle
LaLight (1): pingpongsam
McGarnacle (1): Roadrunner7671
Roadrunner7671 (3): ashersky, J Reggie, SpaceAnemone

Not Voting (1): Zigaton

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Sep 26, 22:00 forum time. That is in 13h 40m.

I think SS missed my vote.

vote: PPS

Votes require a whitespace after the colon to be counted.

[McGarnacle]

Vote Count 1.9

pingpongsam (3): pacovf, LaLight, McGarnacle
LaLight (1): pingpongsam
McGarnacle (1): Roadrunner7671
Roadrunner7671 (3): ashersky, J Reggie, SpaceAnemone

Not Voting (1): Zigaton

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Sep 26, 22:00 forum time. That is in 13h 40m.

I think SS missed my vote.

vote: PPS

Votes require a whitespace after the colon to be counted.

Oh, okay. Good to know!

[SpaceAnemone]

Guys, time is running out. Though I don't want to lynch RR. He was really busy.

Yeah, but being busy doesn't decrease the a priori chance that he's scum, but it does increase his ability to hide from us by claiming he just doesn't have time to say more incriminating things. If he is town, he's playing very differently to how he usually is, and he's not actually helping us win anyway :-(

[pingpongsam]

I actually read town on RR but if it's between me and him I am definitely willing to vote him. It looks like it definitely won't be LaLight today which disappoints me; I feel he is the most obvious choice for today but clearly no one else is feeling it.

I'm going to reread the whole day and choose to move my vote elsewhere. I should be available to the end of Day so no worries about that. I think the main thing we want to avoid today is forcing a claim out of our remaining PR.

[pingpongsam]

Well, right off the bat I see I'm mixing up RR and JR. No, RR is a top scum read for me. There is early partnering behavior between him and LaLight. Feeling much better about the way this is shaping up already. Still a whole bunch of reread to do but for now Unvote.

[pingpongsam]

I reread the whole day and it seems less happened than I thought did. I swear RR/LaLight are the scum team. There's entirely too much collaboration for there not to be a link. RR is obviously coaching at some points. LaLight is clearly taking direction right along with making sure to vote me.

Big town read on Paco (despite him leading the charge on me). He's playing entirely too forthright to be scum. If he's scum he is super good at it. I mean, I think he's also being super good at town.

Ash... ... he's been quite cryptic this game. I'm not reading scum but I'm not feeling real good about his refusals to respond to questions directed at him. At any rate, I think scum!ash would be more interested in answering questions to control the narrative.

J Reggie looks town as hell. Not sure why anyone has voted him at all except maybe for the fake hammer thing which was clearly town play to me.

SA and Ziggy are both cryptic to me in wholly different ways. SA is participatory and lucid and being a newbie with this much material posted I think scum!SA would have shown their hand somewhere and I haven't seen it. Ziggy, well, there's the language thing which I think is cutting both ways. He is entirely too cryptic for me to read one way or the other. Big fat null on him. If he is scum he certainly isn't controlling the game.

McGooGooGaJube is clearly dead town walking.

I intend to post soem response to Paco's analysis on me but feel very confident with Vote: RR which is L-1

[pingpongsam]

You pressured me?

Yes, I feel i was instrumental in your early wagon. At the very least this is what I was referring to.

Both RR and you feel a bit off from your usual playstyle. Of course once you point that out it becomes a huge meta ball, but still. I prefer you slightly over RR because you are a bit scarier,

RR feels off because he is scum and he's not terribly good at it. RR is obvtown when he's town. Me, i don't realyl have a usual play style. if anything, I'd say I am far easier top spot as scum than as town. As town I feel safer playing loose and attracting attention because if I go down there's good interaction around me to analyze. I think we've only played one game together before and I seem to recall being scum that game? If that is the case then me seeming off would because I'm not scum now.

because trying to defuse the fake hammer doesn't look good (especially when you say it's ok because it created interactions or whatever),

The fake hammer thing was going to get some one in hot water regardless. What I mewan is there was no probability of snaring scum but 10-0% probability someone was going to get a  wagon on them just for looking at it. At the time I was simply trying to understand the purpose behind it to determine if JR was scum for doing it. I'm not entirely sure I've seen a fake hammer in any of my games before so i was processing the import of it in real time. Had I know what they represent prior tot hat point I would have probably stayed entirely silent. Anyhow, i stand by the fact that we now have a wagon on me because of it so clearly it created valuable interaction. Unfortunately one fo my biggest town reads ran with that so if I die over it isn't likely to bring suspicion on any scum.

and because lynching lurkers D1 is a double edged sword. It's not a super huge preference mind you.

I'm not seeing Zigaton as a lurker (but I'm calibrated by the likes of chairs and that other guy who posts so little I can't even remember his name)

I prefer either of you to Lalight because he's a newbie, which is always harder to predict.

At least you are honest about wanting to lynch out the vets first which is ironic considering you are one of them moreso than several others.

[J Reggie]

I'm not sure about this recent stuff from PPS. I think I want RR to flip so we can analyze it.

[McGarnacle]

Okay, I've changed my mind. Lots of people seem to be making good cases against RR, and while at first I thought he was town, I've changed my mind. Sorry, RR!

unvote

vote: RR

[J Reggie]

That's L-1.

[pingpongsam]

That's L-1.

Pretty sure my vote was L-1 (which I called in bold). McGoogle hammered, IINM. Good thing he is IC.

[silverspawn]

Final Vote Count Day 1

pingpongsam (2): pacovf, LaLight
McGarnacle (1): Roadrunner7671
Roadrunner7671 (5): ashersky, J Reggie, SpaceAnemone, pingpongsam, McGarnacle

Not Voting (1): Zigaton

With 9 alive, it took 5 to lynch. Thread is locked.

[silverspawn]

His brow furrowed as the gears in his head began to turn behind it. What was the best way to murder a teacher? He was not particularly strong, physically speaking, nor particularly violent. He was, however, particularly ruthless, if he wanted to, and brave, if he said so himself, and was there, by chance, any way to get a hand on that knife which-

“Uhm.”

Slampp turned his head. He blinked.

“Seriously?”

Fluttershy’s figure winced behind the portal that had spontaneously opened beside Slampp's chair. “S-sorry. I can leave, if you want.”

“No, it’s fine.” Slampp sighed. “What do you want?”

“Well, I’m here to help.”

“With killing my teacher?”

“Oh.” Fluttershy shook her head apologetically. “No, I’m sorry. You have to figure that out on your own. Or, without my help, at least. I, um, wish you good luck for that, though.” She stocked. “I, just, if you want to find the other one, you should know that... p-parts are always moving. Yes. They’re not in order. Also a, a, a, g, n, m, m, and, uhm, r. Uhm, that second-last one wasn’t a letter. Yes.” A shade of pink crept onto her cheeks. “Th-that was it, I think. Good luck with, um, killing your teacher. It’s, uhm, really imporant. But what I said is, too. Okay, bye!”

The portal disappeared. A distant part of Slampp RZJ’s mind that was more attentive than the rest urged him to grab his sheet, where he had already written down those stupid equations, and write down the letters.

“A, a, a, g, n, m, m, r,” he murmured.

“What was that?” His neighbor looked up. Frowning, he threw a look at Slampp’s sheet, who briefly considered if he should... but his neighbor seemed to look at the equations rather than the letters.

“Those aren’t right, you know? The first line has thirteen on the right, not fourteen, and the second one three, not two.”

With a slowly rising sense of discomfort, Slampp ZJ looked from the board onto his sheet. It was true, and yet he was almost certain that he had transcribed it correctly.

Something was wrong...

[silverspawn]

Roadrunner has been lynched. He was a Vanilla Townie, and the link to Fluttershy (who is still alive!).

Night 1 starts now and ends at September 27, 13:00 Forum Time.

[silverspawn]

The walls of the school were too solid to hide objects in them, least in such a way that they wouldn't just be stuck there forever. The classroom was visited all the time, no place would go undetected for years. Slampp didn't know who the teacher's parents were, and he wasn't even sure if preventing her existence in the first place would be sufficient.

But the answer just had to involve further time travel, right?

A tap at his arm called his attention to the note his neighbor seemed to be trying to pass. Curiously, he picked it up, unfolding it under his desk.

Howdy. The thing yer lookin' for's mighty big, s' got almost half of Pinks in it, and s' plain annoyin', generally speakin'. I ain't really into this whole portal thingy, so I thought I'll write ya instead (Twilight told me ya know how to read). Sure hope yer got some fine thinkin' behind that tiny head o' yours.

Happy Huntin'

Another tap came with a second letter.

Hey,

This is from me. I only pretend not to know what's going on. If you need help, tell me, but keep quiet.

Frowning, Slampp tore a piece of paper from his sheet while grabbing a pen from his case.

Who writes out his own accent??

Okay, you have any ideas?

This certainly hadn't made things easier. The riddle from Fluttershy had been fairly simple, but he didn't really have any clue as for this one...

A sinking feeling in his stomach made him flinch. Biting his lip, he wrote down something else, trying to do it as fast as he could and without thinking.

Slampp J

[silverspawn]

Zigaton has died in the night. He was the Vanilla Cop and link to Applejack.

Day 2 starts!

[silverspawn]

Vote Count 2.0

Not Voting (7): pacovf, LaLight, ashersky, J Reggie, SpaceAnemone, pingpongsam, McGarnacle

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Day 2 ends at October 06, 13:00 Forum Time.

[pingpongsam]

Impressed that scum took the chance on Ziggy's soft-claim rather than kill McBarnacle. Considering Ziggy's parlance I would not have relied on that so heavily; although I can see how getting the cop out of the picture was pretty important. I suppose his soft claim seemed harder to scum because they presumably knew the full setup? I mean otherwise, he looked like the easiest D2 mislynch ever.

Ashersky fished Ziggy on his soft-claim. JR called it out for what it was. Looking at which I find scummier I have to choose Ashersky. He knows what he is doing and has been putting out these obvious ploys to appear town all along and then slides this gem in when he smells a PR. I think JR's response to it is in line with my own sorts of reactions to these silly ploys yesterday.

I was totally wrong about RR/LaLight. I reread LaLight again post-flip and I have a hard time seeing the guy as scum with that piece of knowledge in mind. Also, feel strong town about Paco going into today.

POE means the ashersky/JR interaction around the soft-claim could have been a coordinated scum push pull tactic. I think  this becomes more reasonable if the order of who did what was reversed but I still find it quite plausible.

[LaLight]

vote: Ashersky

[SpaceAnemone]

Damn :-( The least experienced possible pair of scums left would be LaLight and J Reggie, but I feel like it's even worse, since LL is so townie.

[pingpongsam]

Reread SA and feel good about them being town. I know they started the wagon on McGabber but got off immediately post-claim; and also ended up on RR but, hey look, Ashersky/JR got that one rolling.

I don't understand how it happened. But why do you lynching RR?

Not saying anything is a really good way for scum to hide. Also, Ash pointed out that one of the relatively few posts RR was scummy a while back (post #290). Now he's asserting he's the scummiest person out there, presumably because he's been so lurky here, and yet usually if he's town he's more obviously helpful (he's been in the other games I've played too).

Getting a bit meta, Ash really doesn't seem to say much of anything at all here -- he's mostly acting and voting without a lot of commentary, unlike the other two oldies -- but the other two seem to respect him and not read that as suspicious, which gives me a bit more confidence in what he's saying. That's one reason I don't want to lose the super-experienced players too quickly, because second-hand meta-reading seems to be something we might be able to pull off to help us :-)

Vote: RR

This looks perplexing to me, though. Seems the vote should have been on ashersky unless you're saying you sheeped ashersky hoping he was town? Can you elucidate your position on the RR wagon?

[ashersky]

That whole day ended without me having a chance to get on.  Didn't access the forums all day.  Was happy with the lynch, sad we were wrong.

RR's been having a rough go of it.

Doesn't change much for my reads.  Still like PPS for scum.  Probably partners with J Reggie?

[ashersky]

If I'm anyone but me and PPS, I think it's me and PPS, btw.

[ashersky]

Impressed that scum took the chance on Ziggy's soft-claim rather than kill McBarnacle. Considering Ziggy's parlance I would not have relied on that so heavily; although I can see how getting the cop out of the picture was pretty important. I suppose his soft claim seemed harder to scum because they presumably knew the full setup? I mean otherwise, he looked like the easiest D2 mislynch ever.

Ashersky fished Ziggy on his soft-claim. JR called it out for what it was. Looking at which I find scummier I have to choose Ashersky. He knows what he is doing and has been putting out these obvious ploys to appear town all along and then slides this gem in when he smells a PR. I think JR's response to it is in line with my own sorts of reactions to these silly ploys yesterday.

I was totally wrong about RR/LaLight. I reread LaLight again post-flip and I have a hard time seeing the guy as scum with that piece of knowledge in mind. Also, feel strong town about Paco going into today.

POE means the ashersky/JR interaction around the soft-claim could have been a coordinated scum push pull tactic. I think  this becomes more reasonable if the order of who did what was reversed but I still find it quite plausible.

Where was Ziggy's softclaim?  I have no recollection of that occurring whatsoever.

I thought McGarg claimed something?

[ashersky]

For now, town on SA/McGarg.

Scum on PPS/Pacovf.

Scratch that last post with J Reggie.  Need to re-read that one.

[J Reggie]

If I'm anyone but me and PPS, I think it's me and PPS, btw.

Also if it's you and PPS, you will think it's you and PPS but not admit it. vote: ash

[SpaceAnemone]

This looks perplexing to me, though. Seems the vote should have been on ashersky unless you're saying you sheeped ashersky hoping he was town? Can you elucidate your position on the RR wagon?

Huh, sheeping and hoping sounds like less effort than what I put into it, but I guess that's what it boils down to :-( I trusted Ash to have his vote in a good place, because I concluded there was a good chance he was town based on the fact that neither you nor PPS seemed suspicious of him. I read through the day up till that point, made a list of interactions between the three oldies, and tried to use that to work out who was trustworthy. The most obvious conclusion of that whole thing was that Ash didn't say a lot, but that people seemed to trust him.

[SpaceAnemone]

... and now several people seem not to trust him all of a sudden! Argh.

[pingpongsam]

When did I become a scum read for you, ashersky? You counted me town all yesterday except when I didn't play along with your parlor games. Now that I'm onto you your story changes?

You flat out fished Zigaton and J Reggie immediately called it out for what it was:

Very mild scum on PPS. My evidence is mostly process of elimination

is that allowed? I thought at first it is necessary to prove, and then kill

@Zigaton, what do you think of LaLight?

he may well be the Mafia. While he did not himself compromised, in addition, it can easily divert suspicion from himself. More precisely I can only say in D-2

Why D2 specifically?

Sounds like he's soft claiming, so let's not prod any further.

[J Reggie]

Yeah, I really should have just voted ash there instead of calling it out.

[pingpongsam]

Still want to see if McGladiator got results before I place a vote. If I understand his role correctly his target lights up if they did some targeting or were targeted themselves. Here's hoping he targeted ashersky. I would also hope if Ziggy targeted ash it would still light up? Silver, will the Motion Detector still detect on the target or actions of the Cop who got NK'd?

Of course, the setup is now known to have a Scum RB and it makes good sense to have killed Ziggy and blocked the other known PR.

[LaLight]

Still want to see if McGladiator got results before I place a vote. If I understand his role correctly his target lights up if they did some targeting or were targeted themselves. Here's hoping he targeted ashersky. I would also hope if Ziggy targeted ash it would still light up? Silver, will the Motion Detector still detect on the target or actions of the Cop who got NK'd?

Of course, the setup is now known to have a Scum RB and it makes good sense to have killed Ziggy and blocked the other known PR.

Scumslip detected. Vote: PPS

[J Reggie]

Still want to see if McGladiator got results before I place a vote. If I understand his role correctly his target lights up if they did some targeting or were targeted themselves. Here's hoping he targeted ashersky. I would also hope if Ziggy targeted ash it would still light up? Silver, will the Motion Detector still detect on the target or actions of the Cop who got NK'd?

Of course, the setup is now known to have a Scum RB and it makes good sense to have killed Ziggy and blocked the other known PR.

Scumslip detected. Vote: PPS

Good catch! vote: PPS.   

[pingpongsam]

How so?

Example:
If 12 is randomized, the roles at 11 (Motion Detector), 12 (Roleblocker), and 1 (Weak Visitor) are being chosen.

There was no Weak Visitor so POE brings us to Motion Detector, Cop, RB.

[pingpongsam]

Are you guys just trolling me or am I that bad at reading a setup?

[LaLight]

it is another scumslip, PPS.

09 - 2-Shot Investigation Immune
10 - Vanilla Cop
11 - Motion Detector
12 - Roleblocker

It can be 9-10-11 or 10-11-12. RB is not necessarily here. But you know that he is.

[pingpongsam]

hmm, I must be that bad at reading setups. You seem certain a scum!pps would be so bad at it as well.

[LaLight]

hmm, I must be that bad at reading setups. You seem certain a scum!pps would be so bad at it as well.

scum!rb!PPS would be reading the setup wrongly knowing RB is here.

[J Reggie]

PPS is bad at reading setups but his reaction is scummy.

[pingpongsam]

If you are so sure about that then kill ashersky for me tomorrow, then. At least wait to see if McGhastly got results before you do something so rash.

[pingpongsam]

Ash always says scumslips don't exist but I'm sure today is a special day since he can kill a townie with the magical scumslip of evermore.

[ashersky]

vote: pps

[ashersky]

Ash always says scumslips don't exist but I'm sure today is a special day since he can kill a townie with the magical scumslip of evermore.

I actually say scumslips DO exist.  Everyone else says not.

[ashersky]

unvote

[ashersky]

That was L-1. 

Actually, vote: pps

[ashersky]

Reunvote.

It's early.

[silverspawn]

silver, will the Motion Detector still detect on the target or actions of the Cop who got NK'd?

Yes. (I read the sentence as "of actions of the Cop [...]")

[silverspawn]

Vote Count 2.1

pingpongsam (2): LaLight, J Reggie

Not Voting (5): pingpongsam, pacovf, McGarnacle, SpaceAnemone, ashersky

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Day 2 ends at Oct 6, 13:00 forum time. That is in 8 days and 22+ hours.

[SpaceAnemone]

Wow, a lot happened while I was getting dinner into the oven!

Vote: PPS

I think LaLight catching that backs up my LaLight-is-so-townie vibe really well, too!

[SpaceAnemone]

Wow, a lot happened while I was getting dinner into the oven!

Vote: PPS

I think LaLight catching that backs up my LaLight-is-so-townie vibe really well, too!

Oops.. that was also an L-1 again. Sorry.. not paying enough attention in between recipe steps!

Should I unvote?

[pacovf]

...please tell me that wasn't ANOTHER derphammer

[pacovf]

No, it looks like it wasn't.

I am fairly busy, and need time to mull over the recent developments, but please don't go lynching people without taking the time to think things through?

[pacovf]

If both cop and motion detector target detection-immune mafia, what does the motion detector see?

[McGarnacle]

Okay guys, I'm really sorry. I forgot I was the Motion Tracker. I wasn't even that busy, I just completely forgot. Really sorry!!!

[pingpongsam]

D2 is contaminated. The only fix is for McGstring to have a result on someone notZigaton. Even then we are always going to circle around to the supposed scumslip, so just go ahead and pull the pin and find out how bad I really am at reading setups and start D3 massively in the hole but without distractions.

[pingpongsam]

Okay guys, I'm really sorry. I forgot I was the Motion Tracker. I wasn't even that busy, I just completely forgot. Really sorry!!!

holy crap..

[McGarnacle]

I feel really bad for RR. At first I thought he was town, but I still voted for him. I think we should try PPS.

[silverspawn]

If both cop and motion detector target detection-immune mafia, what does the motion detector see?

Motion Detected.

[pacovf]

I think PPS is just bad at reading setups. He might still be scum, but let's calm down.

Mafia either have a roleblocker or an investigation inmune scum, so McG wouldn't have given us any new info other than telling us which setup we have, which is 100% irrelevant now. So whatevs.

[pingpongsam]

I feel really bad for RR. At first I thought he was town, but I still voted for him. I think we should try PPS.

You have to. This is a horrible mistake regardless of my alignment. There is no way to correctly read anyone around it. Lynching me today doesn't really reveal anything about anyone's alignment because hey, it's the obvious scumslip angle that magically absolves everyone of responsibility when it turns out to not be true. My apologies, fellow townies.

[SpaceAnemone]

Okay, unvote.

[McGarnacle]

I feel really bad for RR. At first I thought he was town, but I still voted for him. I think we should try PPS.

You have to. This is a horrible mistake regardless of my alignment. There is no way to correctly read anyone around it. Lynching me today doesn't really reveal anything about anyone's alignment because hey, it's the obvious scumslip angle that magically absolves everyone of responsibility when it turns out to not be true. My apologies, fellow townies.

Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying.

[LaLight]

I do not believe pps at all. This is his desperate move tobe saved and it highlights his scumness even more.

[McGarnacle]

I do not believe pps at all. This is his desperate move tobe saved and it highlights his scumness even more.

Well your sure going after PPS agressively.

[LaLight]

I do not believe pps at all. This is his desperate move tobe saved and it highlights his scumness even more.

Well your sure going after PPS agressively.

As i told earlier he was suspicious D1, messing our so-called traps. Now he obviously scumslipped. Of he talks out of it, it will be brilliant scum play. I won't change my mind though

[ashersky]

I do not believe pps at all. This is his desperate move tobe saved and it highlights his scumness even more.

Agree.  PPS is one to scumslip, too.

[pingpongsam]

I feel really bad for RR. At first I thought he was town, but I still voted for him. I think we should try PPS.

You have to. This is a horrible mistake regardless of my alignment. There is no way to correctly read anyone around it. Lynching me today doesn't really reveal anything about anyone's alignment because hey, it's the obvious scumslip angle that magically absolves everyone of responsibility when it turns out to not be true. My apologies, fellow townies.

Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying.

I'm saying if you don't lynch me today you will have to lynch me tomorrow or the next day or whatever because we will forever circle back to well PPS must be scum because of that whole scumslip setup thing that happened. The truly unfortunate bit is that there is no information to be gained from doing it because scum has all the excuse they need to be on a town mislynch. If you wait to lynch me later then I am the easiest mislynch when we are at LyLo.

[McGarnacle]

I do not believe pps at all. This is his desperate move tobe saved and it highlights his scumness even more.

Well your sure going after PPS agressively.

As i told earlier he was suspicious D1, messing our so-called traps. Now he obviously scumslipped. Of he talks out of it, it will be brilliant scum play. I won't change my mind though

What did he say which was so damning? I missed it.

[McGarnacle]

I do not believe pps at all. This is his desperate move tobe saved and it highlights his scumness even more.

Agree.  PPS is one to scumslip, too.

Okay, good enough for me.

vote: PPS

[ashersky]

I feel really bad for RR. At first I thought he was town, but I still voted for him. I think we should try PPS.

You have to. This is a horrible mistake regardless of my alignment. There is no way to correctly read anyone around it. Lynching me today doesn't really reveal anything about anyone's alignment because hey, it's the obvious scumslip angle that magically absolves everyone of responsibility when it turns out to not be true. My apologies, fellow townies.

Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying.

I'm saying if you don't lynch me today you will have to lynch me tomorrow or the next day or whatever because we will forever circle back to well PPS must be scum because of that whole scumslip setup thing that happened. The truly unfortunate bit is that there is no information to be gained from doing it because scum has all the excuse they need to be on a town mislynch. If you wait to lynch me later then I am the easiest mislynch when we are at LyLo.

This is a classic WIFOM defense, btw.

"Just lynch me now because it needs to happen so it's better to do it early" is what he's saying.  He's saying that to make us think he should be lynched, which scum wouldn't argue. 

[ashersky]

vote: pps

[ashersky]

Man, it's been awhile since I had one of those.

[pingpongsam]

I do not believe pps at all. This is his desperate move tobe saved and it highlights his scumness even more.

Well your sure going after PPS agressively.

As i told earlier he was suspicious D1, messing our so-called traps. Now he obviously scumslipped. Of he talks out of it, it will be brilliant scum play. I won't change my mind though

What did he say which was so damning? I missed it.

I was sure we had a RB in the game because I read Silver's description of the setup example to mean that sans Weak Visitor it could only resolve one way when in fact it resolved to two possibilities.

[pingpongsam]

Man, it's been awhile since I had one of those.

Congratulations on the hammer, partner.

[ashersky]

I got the reaction we needed to see with the delay via unvote.  Paco strikes me as most likely partner.

Chances McGarg is lying?  He can't be, right?

[ashersky]

Man, it's been awhile since I had one of those.

Congratulations on the hammer, partner.

Thanks!  They'll never suspect me now!

[LaLight]

I got the reaction we needed to see with the delay via unvote.  Paco strikes me as most likely partner.

Chances McGarg is lying?  He can't be, right?

I think about it. Not really, ot smbd would claim he's lying

[ashersky]

PPS blocked McGarg (unneeded, turns out) and they saw a soft claim I missed.

I actually thought the D2 comment was a scumslip (in that he'd know after he killed him).  That's why I called it out.

It's a vanilla game now.  Good shape tomorrow anyway.

[pingpongsam]

PPS blocked McGarg (unneeded, turns out) and they saw a soft claim I missed.

I actually thought the D2 comment was a scumslip (in that he'd know after he killed him).  That's why I called it out.

It's a vanilla game now.  Good shape tomorrow anyway.

Seriously considered stealing the hammer just so you couldn't have it. Pretty sure I've done that before.

[McGarnacle]

Man, it's been awhile since I had one of those.

Congratulations on the hammer, partner.

I got the reaction we needed to see with the delay via unvote.  Paco strikes me as most likely partner.

Chances McGarg is lying?  He can't be, right?

What does all this mean??? I'm super confused.

[McGarnacle]

So we killed PPS, right?

[ashersky]

PPS blocked McGarg (unneeded, turns out) and they saw a soft claim I missed.

I actually thought the D2 comment was a scumslip (in that he'd know after he killed him).  That's why I called it out.

It's a vanilla game now.  Good shape tomorrow anyway.

Seriously considered stealing the hammer just so you couldn't have it. Pretty sure I've done that before.

You have, I'm pretty sure.

[ashersky]

So we killed PPS, right?

Yes, we lynched him.

[pingpongsam]

Man, it's been awhile since I had one of those.

Congratulations on the hammer, partner.

I got the reaction we needed to see with the delay via unvote.  Paco strikes me as most likely partner.

Chances McGarg is lying?  He can't be, right?

What does all this mean??? I'm super confused.

It means you just mislynched a townie again, and you forgot to use your role power so you are the LVP of the game. But at least your username is fun to change around.

[ashersky]

It means "read PPS's signature."

[McGarnacle]

Man, it's been awhile since I had one of those.

Congratulations on the hammer, partner.

I got the reaction we needed to see with the delay via unvote.  Paco strikes me as most likely partner.

Chances McGarg is lying?  He can't be, right?

What does all this mean??? I'm super confused.

It means you just mislynched a townie again, and you forgot to use your role power so you are the LVP of the game. But at least your username is fun to change around.

Cool! What's an LVP? Do I get a Prize from the Prize pile?

[pingpongsam]

Look, I had to be talked out of coming straight out fake claiming cop so I could force a counter claim and out the cop and maybe even get him mislynched to boot, so this was a disappointing exit.

[pingpongsam]

I'm gonna die from misreading setups regardless of my alignment. From now on I'm not talking about setups, period.
Also, we were all set for me to hammer ashersky, so I'm bitter.

[SpaceAnemone]

Wow.. that was all so fast! I've only just eaten dinner, then there were like 14 intervening posts while I was writing a comment to McGarnacle, and now there's no point in even posting it. That was practically a real-time conversation! Do we have a minimum day length?

[ashersky]

Look, I had to be talked out of coming straight out fake claiming cop so I could force a counter claim and out the cop and maybe even get him mislynched to boot, so this was a disappointing exit.

Well, you shot the cop anyway, so I hope you wouldn't have followed through.

[ashersky]

Wow.. that was all so fast! I've only just eaten dinner, then there were like 14 intervening posts while I was writing a comment to McGarnacle, and now there's no point in even posting it. That was practically a real-time conversation! Do we have a minimum day length?

No minimum.

[McGarnacle]

I guess it goes to show that no-one can get away with crime, not even pompomsan.

[ashersky]

I guess it goes to show that no-one can get away with crime, not even pompomsan.

"pompomsan" is the greatest thing ever.

[SpaceAnemone]

May as well post the comment I was going to make to McGarnacle anyway, since I think PPS's explanation of his comments was aimed at sewing confusion rather than explaining anything!

I feel really bad for RR. At first I thought he was town, but I still voted for him. I think we should try PPS.

You have to. This is a horrible mistake regardless of my alignment. There is no way to correctly read anyone around it. Lynching me today doesn't really reveal anything about anyone's alignment because hey, it's the obvious scumslip angle that magically absolves everyone of responsibility when it turns out to not be true. My apologies, fellow townies.

Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying.

He's implying he'll flip town, (which is pretty much impossible at this point!) but that it won't look bad for anyone to have voted for him because they can use the scumslip as a credible reason for having voted that way. That's in contrast to the RR lynch, where Ash, JR and PPS get extra suspicion from my point of view for having voted to lynch a townie (and I get extra from other people too). You're immune from that sort of thing because you're IC, assuming Ash isn't about to propose a set-up where you could be lying, which seems unlikely, even given his comment at #514.

[pacovf]

Well this definitely feels a lot more like ash. Damn, he might just have gotten MVP here. Curse you, I was going for it. I'll have to find scum tomorrow then.

[ashersky]

It's basically impossible for McGarg to be lying.  And since PPS told us they have a RB, that makes sense as the reason he survived N1.

[pacovf]

Look, I had to be talked out of coming straight out fake claiming cop so I could force a counter claim and out the cop and maybe even get him mislynched to boot, so this was a disappointing exit.

Huh, so your partner is experienced?

[pacovf]

It's basically impossible for McGarg to be lying.  And since PPS told us they have a RB, that makes sense as the reason he survived N1.

Would have survived either way, because the other scum PR was investigation inmune. Anyway I have to go, no more twilight for me.

[J Reggie]

So PPS claiming ash is his partner is total Wifom, but being talked out of claiming cop... ash seems like one of the only ones who would do that besides me. And I'm IC so that means it's likely ash is PPS's partner.

[pingpongsam]

So PPS claiming ash is his partner is total Wifom, but being talked out of claiming cop... ash seems like one of the only ones who would do that besides me. And I'm IC so that means it's likely ash is PPS's partner.

You don't seriously believe that, do you? You think I would openly out my partner in twilight?

[pingpongsam]

Besides Imma flip town y'all all pee yo pants.

[J Reggie]

So PPS claiming ash is his partner is total Wifom, but being talked out of claiming cop... ash seems like one of the only ones who would do that besides me. And I'm IC so that means it's likely ash is PPS's partner.

You don't seriously believe that, do you? You think I would openly out my partner in twilight?

Yeah, why not?

[J Reggie]

I guess it goes to show that no-one can get away with crime, not even pompomsan.

"pompomsan" is the greatest thing ever.

Agreed. We need to add this to the list of nicknames.

[silverspawn]

Final Vote Count Day 2

pingpongsam (4): LaLight, J Reggie, McGarnacle, ashersky

Not Voting (3): pingpongsam, pacovf, SpaceAnemone

With 7 alive, it took 4 to lynch. Thread is locked.

[silverspawn]

Slampp read the latest note carefully, mulling things over before he nodded.

Alright, he wrote, here is the quote.

"Dear recipient,

Please write the following set of equations onto a sheet of paper, and also memorize them. Please be precise.

2s + t + 3 = 14
2s - t + 5 = 2

The solution to those equations is 7 for t, 2 for s. However, about 15 minutes into the lecture, you will find that they have adjusted so that t is 6, and about 5 more minutes later, to t as 5. When this happens, I want you to wait three more minutes, then check the paper again. If s at that point is still 2 or if t is lower than 5, tear up the paper and enter the classroom. Otherwise, stay outside and let no-one notice you."

And include as much money as you have. Thanks.

His neighbor nodded, and the next few moments emcompassed a shift in the fabric of time-space ipsum sollicitudin eget lorem aenean dorotus fabun ponyo ponyo

As the universe stabilized again, Slampp sat in his chair with baited breath. Roughly 106 seconds later, his teacher was hit by a sudden heart-attack, ending her life swiftly, and just in time. Slampp closed his eyes in relief.

It had been simple, really. As soon as he had learned that he could strive for a self-consistent leap rather than override-mode, all that had been left was to present the universe with a choice. Get rid of the teacher, or implode in a paradox. Granted, there had been a small chance of ending universal existence, but the self-conserving nature of everything had been a rather safe bet.

With a smile, Slamp J gave his neighbor a thumbs-up.

[silverspawn]

pingpongsam has been lynched. He was a Mafia Goon, and Maths Teacher.

Night 2 starts now and ends at September 28, 18:00 Forum Time.

[silverspawn]

In the predictable panic that followed, he saw the outlines of a white face distancing themselves from the room’s inner wall. At first he thought she would step out in person, but apparently it was merely an updated version of the same portal Fluttershy had used, its visual presentation matching the pony using it.

“Oh, hi.”

Rarity raised an eyebrow. Given that he was in a good mood due to the recent success, Slamp quickly decided to do the smart thing, bowing his head respectfully.

“Good morning, Miss Rarity.”

Now Rarity smiled approvingly, giving a slight nod.

“Morning, is it? Curious, we have early evening, here.” She pivoted her head around, examining larger parts of the room. “I do hope your success hasn’t caused any serious trouble?”

“No, I think we’ll reset the timeline soon, so it won’t matter.”

Rarity nodded again. “Very well. Would you say you are still in need of further assistance?”

“Uhm.” Slamp hesitated, briefly wondering whether there was a right or a wrong answer. “... I guess?”

“Has dear Fluttershy not been helpful? She’s been terribly worried that she might have been too obtuse.”

“Oh, no, she’s been great help. Her riddle was pretty simple, actually.”

“Was it, now?”

Slamp blinked. Rarity’s lips twitched.

“She really is shy to a fault. It is right in her name... names are terribly important, I must say. Why, have you looked at Pinkie Pie?”

“Um... yeah.” Slamp frowned, wondering if there was a point to-

“In any case, I’m afraid I have to excuse myself already. To be quite honest, I do feel a bit uncomfortable in such an evil place.”

“What? But you haven’t given me any clues...”

At that, Rarity gave a smile and a wink, and then she was gone, leaving a confused Slap J behind.

[silverspawn]

McGarnacle has died in the night. He was the Motion Detector, and link to Rarity.

Day 3 starts!

[silverspawn]

Vote Count 3.0

Not Voting (5): pacovf, SpaceAnemone, LaLight, J Reggie, ashersky

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch. Day 3 ends at October 06, 17:00 Forum Time.

[LaLight]

ok. So, I thinking PPS actually helped his newbie friend, breaking our traps, So it is either SA or Pacovf (?). SA is more likely. I'll reread interactions with PPS.

Also, I think I am an IC, catching PPS on this scumslip, am I not?

[ashersky]

ok. So, I thinking PPS actually helped his newbie friend, breaking our traps, So it is either SA or Pacovf (?). SA is more likely. I'll reread interactions with PPS.

Also, I think I am an IC, catching PPS on this scumslip, am I not?

Well, you might have been close, had you not highlighted it yourself just now.

Now it seems like the whole thing was staged for this purpose.

[ashersky]

Big rereads planned -- no fast lynching.

[SpaceAnemone]

ok. So, I thinking PPS actually helped his newbie friend, breaking our traps, So it is either SA or Pacovf (?). SA is more likely. I'll reread interactions with PPS.

Huh.. or you! :-P Actually, it really doesn't follow, because we know enough about the set-up to be sure that there was no rolecop to be outed anyway, so if that was PPS's motivation for diffusing Ash's fishing attempt, then it was a very silly one.

Also, I think I am an IC, catching PPS on this scumslip, am I not?

Yeah, I'm willing to go with that today at least. If you're scum, you've become scary awfully quickly given that you're pretty much at the same newbie level as me.

[pacovf]

So basically, in descending order of towniness...

SpaceAnemone is the towniest town ever
Lalight caught the scumslip (whether it was real or not is irrelevant, it got PPS lynched)
J Reggie did the fake hammer thing
ashersky quickhammered PPS

So there are reasons to believe them all to be town, so PoE does not work. I will have to reread for incriminating evidence before I can put a vote down.

Big rereads planned -- no fast lynching.

[LaLight]

Argh.. really sorry for not being present today :-( I've had a big concert this evening, and it went amazingly, but I've just come home from the afterparty and it's too late to do thinking... though I'd have a chance to phonepost between the rehearsals and concert, but I was rushed off my feet. I'll definitely make time to do proper reading tomorrow :-)

Being at a concert... Sounds scummy to me! 

This joke is scummy.  Plus emoticon.

Oh, not you as well!! Silver seemed to take issue with my use of smilies right from my first game :-( For some of us, they're just useful forms of written communication, and they don't mean anything at all about our scumminess or lack thereof!

Scum always says that.

I think it's time for a read list:

Would lynch:

Zigaton (as far as I am concerned, his second post was super scummy. Might be me OMGUSing, I am hoping it isn't)
PPS (jumping on easy votes, makes me feel uneasy)
Lalight (has done some things typically attributed to scum)

McGarnacle (don't feel very strongly about this one, but will vote if necessary)

Would not lynch:

SpaceAnemone (strongish townread)
RoadRunner (mild townread)

No opinion:

ashersky (not as confrontational as he usually is, dunno how to feel about that)
J Reggie (barely present)

Would lynch: lalight, paco, mcgarg, zig
Might lynch: Space, RR, J Reg
Rather not lynch: PPS

The difference between would and might is not a lot.

Basically I have one town read.  That's...not great.

Interesting, I hate when I have a bunch of town reads all,over the place, especially early on. Also I am suspicious of people who read town on everyone except a couple people, it is an easy scum tactic to softly direct for mislynches. I mean, yeah, when someone is scummy they are scummy and should make the list and not everyone is going to be scummy like that.

Today, I hold the idea we will actually hit scum very loosely and look for the most informative flip which is still pretty loose as well, it's D1 after all. I've got no strong town reads and no strong scum reads. Being a newbie game I suppose it's possible the Paco/LaLight pair have shown their hand that easily but it's a stretch. Paco omgusing me doesn't really sway me off the idea.

All that said, there's no one on my wouldn't lynch list today and probably wouldn't be unless we got someone to L-1 and they claimed a PR without a counter. Everyone is pretty null to me. RR gives me a faint town read.

Paco omgusing me doesn't really sway me off the idea.

So I wanted to get back to you about my bad feeling.

See, what I normally see about other players, when they get invested in a game as you are, is that half their cases or reads seem to come out of nowhere. Half the time they won't ever explain them. And the other half, even after they explain them, there's a good 40% the reasons will seem weird to me! Best case scenario, they just OMGUS people and bend themselves backwards to find a reason to find them scummy. This is only more true in your case, since your thought process and mine are very different, from what I remember playing with you or reading your games.

But here, you've jumped on the "hard claim town" and "overly helpful" cliche arguments for finding someone scummy (I was aware that opening with a town claim is considered scummy in this forum, I wanted to see who would jump on it). Super safe, super forgettable reasons and votes. I am wary of that.

Furthermore, now you give us this:

Today, I hold the idea we will actually hit scum very loosely and look for the most informative flip which is still pretty loose as well, it's D1 after all.

The "I don't really think we will hit scum, so might as well lynch the most informative flip" is an easy way to get rid of helpful town without being accountable about it. Sure, I dislike lynching lurkers D1 for this very reason, but there's a difference between not wanting to lynch a lurker and what you are saying.

I am also uneasy about your soft-buddying Ash here and here:

Basically I have one town read.  That's...not great.

Interesting, I hate when I have a bunch of town reads all,over the place, especially early on. Also I am suspicious of people who read town on everyone except a couple people, it is an easy scum tactic to softly direct for mislynches.

vote: LaLight

Yeah, mr. A little too helpful Vote: LaLight

Actually, I think I am going to put my vote where my words are, vote: PPS.


Note: 5 out of 8 players have expressed an interest in lynching me, so it's kinda hard for me to vote for someone without OMGUSing them...
[/quote]

I think I've been rather conversational and trying to fill in the gaps where needed. I'm not sure what is not constructive about my posts. The game has actually moved along fairly well for D1. Once a flip or two is in things will pick up quite a bit because everyone will have their interpretation of what it means. Also, if we have any night action results from PRs it gets especially thick.

At this point it is about corralling the votes towards a lynch. I'm still currently happy with my vote where it is as I've seen nothing that convinces me it is in the wrong place nor that there might be a better place.

I'm pretty sure you and Ash have something else entirely going on at a higher level, but I want to believe it's meta-stuff rooted experience rather than malice. Besides, I think we've already agreed that if you two are scum together we're screwed anyway.

I don't like the corralling thing you mention, though... isn't the whole point of D1 was to get people talking and into the game? Otherwise, why would it be so long. We have zero information to go on, so we have to make people talk to each other.

Unofficial Vote Count

pingpongsam (1): pacovf
LaLight (1): pingpongsam
McGarnacle (3): SpaceAnemone, Roadrunner7671, LaLight
RoadRunner7671 (1): ashersky
Zigaton (1): McGarnacle
pacovf (1): Zigaton

Not Voting (1): J Reggie

Ultra-helpy LaLight is just town LaLight as far as I've seen elsewhere, so that's not a D1 option for me. I seem to have started the one and only actual wagon, so if you just wanted to kill people, you'd be on that one instead. @Ash and @Paco, what am I missing here?

Why didn't they ask PPS here?

Anyhow, since I have a busy day ahead;

confTown:
McGarnacle

Maybe town:
J Reggie
SA

Null (from light to dark):
pacovf
ashersky
zigaton

Scum:
RR
LaLight

So I've been doing a re-read, intending to make a whole reads list. The "scary three" of Ash, PPS and Paco are difficult, because I think they could just manipulate stuff too easily to be read by the rest of us. (Originally I'd put Paco in the same bunch as JR and RR, but I think he seems to know what's going on a lot more, so I'm counting him as super-experienced now).

I think LaLight is being absolutely town!LaLight, and McGarnacle is IC, which is nice. Are we giving Zigaton a D1 pass? It's not like it's possible for him to be the only scum out there anyway, and leaving a less-experienced scum for later probably makes a lot of sense.

So then I'm left with JR and RR, and I expected my reread to back up JR's case on RR, but it doesn't. JR is so absent early on that he'd posted more stuff before it had started than in its early pages. He voted for Paco because of his opening statement about not being Mafia (#68), then later made a point of saying it's something you'd only do as town (#96), and then goes on to say he's town a whole bunch of times, which is essentially the same thing as being not Mafia.

He's quite jumpy about votes, like saying he won't vote for Zigaton, then voting for him, then going back to RR, who he'd been voting for earlier. Actually, he seems to be quite against RR in general, when RR's actually not really said anything too suspicious (though it would be good if he'd interact more!). Do scums do fake hammers to look townie? Especially ones who know there are some newbie-but-learning people like me and LaLight who might then assume he's good? I think this might be like WIFOM, but I'm still generally not liking it.

Vote: J Reggie

I reread the whole day and it seems less happened than I thought did. I swear RR/LaLight are the scum team. There's entirely too much collaboration for there not to be a link. RR is obviously coaching at some points. LaLight is clearly taking direction right along with making sure to vote me.

Big town read on Paco (despite him leading the charge on me). He's playing entirely too forthright to be scum. If he's scum he is super good at it. I mean, I think he's also being super good at town.

Ash... ... he's been quite cryptic this game. I'm not reading scum but I'm not feeling real good about his refusals to respond to questions directed at him. At any rate, I think scum!ash would be more interested in answering questions to control the narrative.

J Reggie looks town as hell. Not sure why anyone has voted him at all except maybe for the fake hammer thing which was clearly town play to me.

SA and Ziggy are both cryptic to me in wholly different ways. SA is participatory and lucid and being a newbie with this much material posted I think scum!SA would have shown their hand somewhere and I haven't seen it. Ziggy, well, there's the language thing which I think is cutting both ways. He is entirely too cryptic for me to read one way or the other. Big fat null on him. If he is scum he certainly isn't controlling the game.

McGooGooGaJube is clearly dead town walking.

I intend to post soem response to Paco's analysis on me but feel very confident with Vote: RR which is L-1

That whole day ended without me having a chance to get on.  Didn't access the forums all day.  Was happy with the lynch, sad we were wrong.

RR's been having a rough go of it.

Doesn't change much for my reads.  Still like PPS for scum.  Probably partners with J Reggie?

For now, town on SA/McGarg.

Scum on PPS/Pacovf.

Scratch that last post with J Reggie.  Need to re-read that one.

okay. Long post here.

My reads after rereading:

Pacovf: Towniest town
Ash: Seems scummy. Also pressured PPS D2 out of the blue like they made this deal N1. Maybe even they tried to help newbies and made a deal for PPS to scumslip and look if anyone would react. Then this vote/unvote Ash's thing when PPS scumslipped.
SA: No single interaction with PPS. Looks scummy
Me: IC
JReggie. No Interactions, no voting for PPS and no usefulness. He's my best choice for now.
Vote: Jreggie

PPE some

[LaLight]

I think we should lynch JReggie now. Then things will be clearer

[SpaceAnemone]

I think I've been rather conversational and trying to fill in the gaps where needed. I'm not sure what is not constructive about my posts. The game has actually moved along fairly well for D1. Once a flip or two is in things will pick up quite a bit because everyone will have their interpretation of what it means. Also, if we have any night action results from PRs it gets especially thick.

At this point it is about corralling the votes towards a lynch. I'm still currently happy with my vote where it is as I've seen nothing that convinces me it is in the wrong place nor that there might be a better place.

I'm pretty sure you and Ash have something else entirely going on at a higher level, but I want to believe it's meta-stuff rooted experience rather than malice. Besides, I think we've already agreed that if you two are scum together we're screwed anyway.

I don't like the corralling thing you mention, though... isn't the whole point of D1 was to get people talking and into the game? Otherwise, why would it be so long. We have zero information to go on, so we have to make people talk to each other.

Unofficial Vote Count

pingpongsam (1): pacovf
LaLight (1): pingpongsam
McGarnacle (3): SpaceAnemone, Roadrunner7671, LaLight
RoadRunner7671 (1): ashersky
Zigaton (1): McGarnacle
pacovf (1): Zigaton

Not Voting (1): J Reggie

Ultra-helpy LaLight is just town LaLight as far as I've seen elsewhere, so that's not a D1 option for me. I seem to have started the one and only actual wagon, so if you just wanted to kill people, you'd be on that one instead. @Ash and @Paco, what am I missing here?

Why didn't they ask PPS here?

I didn't direct the question at PPS because the rest of that post was targeted at him, so the "you" I was referring to was PPS. Early on, I wanted to balance out the three oldies so that we could use them as sort of detectors to tell when one of them might be being scummy even if I didn't catch it first-hand myself, so I wanted to know what Ash and Paco thought of PPS's behaviour there.

[J Reggie]

What? I definitely voted for PPS. Also I'm town, so don't lynch me.

[J Reggie]

So I'm trying to Wifom with PPS's apparent outing of ash. Maybe it's useless. Not where he claimed ash was his partner but where he said he had to be talked out of claiming cop. Ash or I would have been the ones to talk him out of that, and I'm not scum so that points to ash if that's true. The question is, did PPS think ADK this through in order to incriminate a vet when his partner was a newbie, or did he not think that saying that would narrow the lynch pool that much because there are usually more players who would talk him out of it.

[J Reggie]

I think ADK was supposed to be all. He's not even in this game.

[ashersky]

So I'm trying to Wifom with PPS's apparent outing of ash. Maybe it's useless. Not where he claimed ash was his partner but where he said he had to be talked out of claiming cop. Ash or I would have been the ones to talk him out of that, and I'm not scum so that points to ash if that's true. The question is, did PPS think ADK this through in order to incriminate a vet when his partner was a newbie, or did he not think that saying that would narrow the lynch pool that much because there are usually more players who would talk him out of it.

I'd suspect paco over you for the cop thing.

But why are you trying to glean anything from scum!trolling?

[SpaceAnemone]

I think we should lynch JReggie now. Then things will be clearer

Where was your zeal for lynching him when I was making my case in D1? I don't like how he keeps just telling us he's town or IC or something without making other cases :-(

PPS: Okay, at least he's saying things now...

[LaLight]

Even the name of our hero is "Slap J" now, lol

[J Reggie]

So I'm trying to Wifom with PPS's apparent outing of ash. Maybe it's useless. Not where he claimed ash was his partner but where he said he had to be talked out of claiming cop. Ash or I would have been the ones to talk him out of that, and I'm not scum so that points to ash if that's true. The question is, did PPS think ADK this through in order to incriminate a vet when his partner was a newbie, or did he not think that saying that would narrow the lynch pool that much because there are usually more players who would talk him out of it.

I'd suspect paco over you for the cop thing.

But why are you trying to glean anything from scum!trolling?

 Because I'm not sure the cop thing was trolling. Also there's probably some psychology that goes into it. Like if I were good at that I might be able to tell who his partner was by what he said there.

[SpaceAnemone]

PPS: Okay, at least he's saying things now...

That's supposed to be PPE, isn't it! Guess what's on my mind :-P

[pacovf]

While I generally agree that PPS's comment about having to be talked out of claiming cop is the most likely to be true, I still think basing ourselves on post-lynch talk is just a huge pile of smoldering WIFOM, so eh.

And yes, I would expect people to suspect me more over it than you, based on our playstyles (and ashersky over either of us, just due to seniority). In any case, despite how brash PPS is, I would expect him to respect the will of a newbie!scumpartner in a newbie game. So... eh.

[ashersky]

Can someone compile a list of everyone PPS voted for?  I'm on iPad and can't do anything useful.

I did see pacovf was his first vote of the game, so that's a point against pacovf.

[SpaceAnemone]

Can someone compile a list of everyone PPS voted for?  I'm on iPad and can't do anything useful.

Paco @ #69
LaLight @ #132
RR @ #445

He unvoted the post before voting for RR, but was on LaLight for all the intervening time.

[pacovf]

A lot more interesting would be to see who tried to redirect away from PPS during D1. Losing scum D1 in a 2-player scum team is basically game over, so mafia would want to avoid that by all means.

I want to do a full reread, but won't really have time until Sunday...

[ashersky]

Can someone compile a list of everyone PPS voted for?  I'm on iPad and can't do anything useful.

Paco @ #69
LaLight @ #132
RR @ #445

He unvoted the post before voting for RR, but was on LaLight for all the intervening time.

That's interesting... (someone call IG)

[ashersky]

A lot more interesting would be to see who tried to redirect away from PPS during D1. Losing scum D1 in a 2-player scum team is basically game over, so mafia would want to avoid that by all means.

I want to do a full reread, but won't really have time until Sunday...

Was there ever really a wagon on PPS?

[pacovf]

The way I remember it, PPS looked like the lynch, until people started moving to RR. I have to reread though.

[ashersky]

I will now point out that PPS foiling my Rolecop claim plan was clearly scum not liking my town plan to catch scum.

[ashersky]

I reread the whole day and it seems less happened than I thought did. I swear RR/LaLight are the scum team. There's entirely too much collaboration for there not to be a link. RR is obviously coaching at some points. LaLight is clearly taking direction right along with making sure to vote me.

Big town read on Paco (despite him leading the charge on me). He's playing entirely too forthright to be scum. If he's scum he is super good at it. I mean, I think he's also being super good at town.

Ash... ... he's been quite cryptic this game. I'm not reading scum but I'm not feeling real good about his refusals to respond to questions directed at him. At any rate, I think scum!ash would be more interested in answering questions to control the narrative.

J Reggie looks town as hell. Not sure why anyone has voted him at all except maybe for the fake hammer thing which was clearly town play to me.

SA and Ziggy are both cryptic to me in wholly different ways. SA is participatory and lucid and being a newbie with this much material posted I think scum!SA would have shown their hand somewhere and I haven't seen it. Ziggy, well, there's the language thing which I think is cutting both ways. He is entirely too cryptic for me to read one way or the other. Big fat null on him. If he is scum he certainly isn't controlling the game.

McGooGooGaJube is clearly dead town walking.

I intend to post soem response to Paco's analysis on me but feel very confident with Vote: RR which is L-1

Big reads post by PPS.  Copied from the Print Screen for my ISO read.

[ashersky]

Re-read PPS D1.  McGarg comes off as strong town on re-read.

LaLight as well, unless he was super coached.

Paco seems most likely partner, followed by J Reg.

[J Reggie]

Re-read PPS D1.  McGarg comes off as strong town on re-read.

LaLight as well, unless he was super coached.

Paco seems most likely partner, followed by ash.

Ftfy.

[ashersky]

His first post of Day 2 basically confirms J Reggie or Paco for me.

[ashersky]

The player notably absent from the PPS re-read is SpaceAnemone.  Like, ZERO mention or interaction of note until the second post of D2 by PPS.

That's...strange.

Knowing PPS's scum style well, it's not really like him to just ignore a partner.

Still, something to note.

[ashersky]

Re-read PPS D1.  McGarg comes off as strong town on re-read.

LaLight as well, unless he was super coached.

Paco seems most likely partner, followed by ash.

Ftfy.

Well, of course you'd remove yourself from there.  How do you feel about Paco?

[J Reggie]

Re-read PPS D1.  McGarg comes off as strong town on re-read.

LaLight as well, unless he was super coached.

Paco seems most likely partner, followed by ash.

Ftfy.

Well, of course you'd remove yourself from there.  How do you feel about Paco?

Actually he's my second biggest scum read. First is you. I don't like how you were rolefishing.

[ashersky]

Re-read PPS D1.  McGarg comes off as strong town on re-read.

LaLight as well, unless he was super coached.

Paco seems most likely partner, followed by ash.

Ftfy.

Well, of course you'd remove yourself from there.  How do you feel about Paco?

Actually he's my second biggest scum read. First is you. I don't like how you were rolefishing.

I still don't know when I was rolefishing.  PPS says it was when I thought whomever said the D2 comment was scum.

Are you agreeing with scum!PPS?  Or is there some other thing you thought was rolefishing?

[ashersky]

Also, vote: J Reggie, I think, for reacting 1000% the way scum would to my re-read + question.

(Queue his OMGUS vote.)

[J Reggie]

Re-read PPS D1.  McGarg comes off as strong town on re-read.

LaLight as well, unless he was super coached.

Paco seems most likely partner, followed by ash.

Ftfy.

Well, of course you'd remove yourself from there.  How do you feel about Paco?

Actually he's my second biggest scum read. First is you. I don't like how you were rolefishing.

I still don't know when I was rolefishing.  PPS says it was when I thought whomever said the D2 comment was scum.

Are you agreeing with scum!PPS?  Or is there some other thing you thought was rolefishing?

You were trying to get zigaton to claim. Whether you're scum or not that's what you were doing.

[ashersky]

Re-read PPS D1.  McGarg comes off as strong town on re-read.

LaLight as well, unless he was super coached.

Paco seems most likely partner, followed by ash.

Ftfy.

Well, of course you'd remove yourself from there.  How do you feel about Paco?

Actually he's my second biggest scum read. First is you. I don't like how you were rolefishing.

I still don't know when I was rolefishing.  PPS says it was when I thought whomever said the D2 comment was scum.

Are you agreeing with scum!PPS?  Or is there some other thing you thought was rolefishing?

You were trying to get zigaton to claim. Whether you're scum or not that's what you were doing.

When?

[pacovf]

Re-read PPS D1.  McGarg comes off as strong town on re-read.

LaLight as well, unless he was super coached.

Paco seems most likely partner, followed by J Reg.

Just checking, but you know that McG is dead, right? And SpaceAnemone is still alive.

[SpaceAnemone]

Just checking, but you know that McG is dead, right? And SpaceAnemone is still alive.

Yeah, sorry -- I'm out tonight so I'm sneakily checking the forum on my phone but I'm probably going to be quite quiet till tomorrow.

[SpaceAnemone]

Wow, it's too quiet in here! Is everyone just waiting for Paco's promised re-reads on Sunday or something?

I'm going to read over J Reggie again, since I still feel like there's a good chance he's not as innocent as Paco was insisting he was last time I tried making a case.

#68 His first game post is a vote for Paco.
#96 Votes Ash, and also townreads Paco for the thing he'd voted him for earlier.
#248 Day pass for Zigaton -- seems townie, especially in retrospect.
#253 Votes zigaton.
#273 Unvotes.
#294: "I guess I could see a McGarnacle-zigaton scum team."
#298 On board with Ash's Rolecop plan, which sounds good, but then scum would already have known there wasn't one in the game anyway!
#313: "Also as far as doing stuff, I just proposed a possible scum team." (McGarnacle-Zigaton, at #294).
#324 Puts McGarnacle up to L-1.
#339 FH on McGarnacle. This is where all his town points seem to come from, but it's only one post.
#365: "Ash is scum and has a plan for his partner to claim."
#374 unvotes after McGarnacle claims.
#395 votes RR (taking #2 spot on the wagon).
#406 agrees with Ash about disagreeing with my JR case, but downplays the extent to which he's willing to agree I'm town.
#413 "Sounds like he's soft claiming, so let's not prod any further." -- which LL immediately suggests JR should not have said. Not very townie on JR's part.
#477 "I'm not sure about this recent stuff from PPS. I think I want RR to flip so we can analyze it." Is this the first time JR's mentioned PPS all game?
#465 Starts D2 with a vote for Ash.
#472 Jumps on PPS as soon as LL points out the slip. Could be trying to bus, though.
#478: "PPS is bad at reading setups but his reaction is scummy." -- but that didn't stop him jumping directly on the wagon anyway.
#538: Points out PPS wifom, claims IC yet again, suggests Ash is most likely PPS's buddy.
#557: "I definitely voted for PPS. Also I'm town, so don't lynch me."
#558, #563 Lots of wifom stuff. Not sure it helps us to be made to dwell on what PPS said when he was obviously trying to hurt us.
#582 More about the zigaton softclaim that he drew attention to the first time he challenged Ash on it.

Posts in which he claims out-right to be town: #74, #202, #258, #557
Posts in which he claims out-right to be IC: #256, #312, #538

Lessons learned:
1) JR has been throwing suspicion on Ash for longer than I'd realised. Though after RVS, he was only really voting for Ash for a very short time between early D2 and the point at which LL outed PPS.
2) He really likes telling us he's town and IC. Is that even a good thing to do if you really are town? I guess it's a thing that Ash will be able to tell use from meta?
3) The thing he's mostly throwing at Ash now is the fact that he drew attention to Zigaton's soft-claim. However, re-reading that bit now makes it look like it was really JR calling unnecessary attention to Ash's casual query, so maybe it's JR who did something questionable there, especially since LL picked him up on it right afterwards.

[SpaceAnemone]

Also condensed Ash, while I'm on a roll with this whole reading thing :-)

#83: "Newbie here, looking forward to my first game." Well, even some of us newbies know that's a total fabrication, but the rest of his opening seemed ultra-townie.
#84 Suggests LL is Paco's partner when the Paco wagon goes quite fast and LL unvotes.
#97: "Paco is old school -- famed for his ruthlessness."
#104: "Not me and RR, me and PPS." Correcting McGarnacle when he voted for RR instead of PPS as the person who'd be scary in combination with Ash.
#111: "PPS speaks the truths." Agreeing that Paco's opening could totally be from scum.
#129 Votes LL without putting any justification at all into the post.
#135 Explains why he thinks LL is being scummy.
#156: "Could vote for McGargle."
#167: "This joke is scummy.  Plus emoticon." Now I'm feeling kind of down on him just for saying that smilies are bad, and for corrupting people's names.
#182 Says that PPS is his only townread; seems happy to lynch pretty much anyone else in the game.
(A bunch of intervening posts about nicknames).
(A digression about the little green square thing).
#227: Commentary about Paco being hard to read.
#228 Votes RR (also giving no reasoning in the same post).
#246 Says Zigaton could be newbie scum.
#254 Says everyone's scummy after JR votes for Zigaton.
#290 Demonstrates scummy response from RR.
#295 "Do you really think one would bus the other in that newbie team-up?" in response to JR's McGarnacle-Zigatron pairing suggestion. I think I missed the thing about it being sush an unlikely chain of events in my re-read of JR!
#296 Rolecop fishing expedition. On the one hand, townie; on the other, "cop" is the one and only noun to appear as both a town and scum role, and the scum team would already have known by this stage that there was a vanilla cop in the game. I'd wondered at first if that was what he was asking for, so if I'd been the vanilla cop, I may well have accidentally outed myself if I hadn't gone and looked at the set-up to try and infer what clever thing he'd seen.
#355 "Makes PpS scummier, just like his reaction to my Rolecop idea." (Ash on PPS's commenting on the FH).
#356 "Like he's protecting a newbie partner." How does breaking a FH on a player that scums must already know is town help a newbie scum partner anyway? I can see that having a successful FH is bad for scum because we get an IC out of it, but not why being a newbie matters in particular.
#364 More of the rolecop fishing.
#370 Terrorizing scum newbies into detectable silence.. I guess it's actually quite townie when he puts it that way.
#405: "Disagree completely with SA's J Reg case."
#412: "Why D2 specifically?" -- this is the bit where he asks about Zigaton's assertion that he'll be more sure of LL in D2. Zigaton's English was a little odd, though I think his intention was pretty clear.
#428: "RR is the scummiest today, and seems to not have made any town lists." This seems valid, in spite of the fact we now know that RR was town :-(
#461: "Still like PPS for scum.  Probably partners with J Reggie?" (First post of D2).
#462: "If I'm anyone but me and PPS, I think it's me and PPS, btw." Now things get confusing!
#463 He seems surprised that Zigatron had softclaimed, and doesn't even seem to recall accurately that McGarnacle had claimed motion detector. Weird.
#464: "For now, town on SA/McGarg. Scum on PPS/Pacovf. Scratch that last post with J Reggie.  Need to re-read that one."
#481-#481 Votes and unvotes PPS a bit.
#510 Hammers PPS, having pointed out a couple more scum things in between.
#514: "Paco strikes me as most likely partner."
(A bit of twilight stuff including the wifom thing on Ash from PPS).
#550 Suspicion on LL for claiming IC because he caught PPS's scumslip.
#551 Ban on fast lynching. Seems like a good idea, but also there's not much conversation going on now.
#572: "I will now point out that PPS foiling my Rolecop claim plan was clearly scum not liking my town plan to catch scum." I'm still not quite seeing this.
#576: "His first post of Day 2 basically confirms J Reggie or Paco for me."
#577: "The player notably absent from the PPS re-read is SpaceAnemone." It would look bad if I don't include this in my summary of relevant stuff, but I think didn't notice at the time he wasn't talking to me about game people. My main impression of him D1 was someone who wasn't afraid to press buttons, but who seemed to respect the other oldies.
#580: "I still don't know when I was rolefishing." Really? The Zigaton thing has come up a number of times now...
#581 Votes J Reggie.
#581 "(Queue his OMGUS vote.)" -- Am I the only one who can't help suggesting that that wants to be "Cue" rather than "Queue"? Sorry!

So things I want to know from here are:
1) Howcome Ash keeps denying the thing about Zigaton and fishing for his PR at #412?
2) Does Ash's "protecting a newbie" explanation actually make sense to other people?

I'm going to wait to hear what Paco makes (or avoids?) of the wifom thing before even trying to deal with it, because we've already got JR's take on it anyway.

[ashersky]

I meant queue up, I think.  Cue also works.

[ashersky]

I like SA rereads.  They have clearly read my superb town performances, given the format matches.

[LaLight]

I like SA rereads.  They have clearly read my superb town performances, given the format matches.

I like them too. The only option left is JReggie.

[ashersky]

The why D2 specifically thing is specifically not a rolefish.

[ashersky]

I like SA rereads.  They have clearly read my superb town performances, given the format matches.

I like them too. The only option left is JReggie.

Him or Paco.

[LaLight]

I like SA rereads.  They have clearly read my superb town performances, given the format matches.

I like them too. The only option left is JReggie.

Him or Paco.

I think I made reread on Paco from which it is clearly seen he is town. Reread it

[ashersky]

The why D2 specifically thing is specifically not a rolefish.

I read his post to say "I'll know better in the future."

I was curious why he thought D2 -- made me think right away that he'd decided he wasn't the NK.

[ashersky]

I like SA rereads.  They have clearly read my superb town performances, given the format matches.

I like them too. The only option left is JReggie.

Him or Paco.

I think I made reread on Paco from which it is clearly seen he is town. Reread it

You mean where you just quoted stuff?  That's called IIoA.

[LaLight]

I like SA rereads.  They have clearly read my superb town performances, given the format matches.

I like them too. The only option left is JReggie.

Him or Paco.

I think I made reread on Paco from which it is clearly seen he is town. Reread it

You mean where you just quoted stuff?  That's called IIoA.

I don't know what the combination of the letters means.

[LaLight]

I like SA rereads.  They have clearly read my superb town performances, given the format matches.

I like them too. The only option left is JReggie.

Him or Paco.

I think I made reread on Paco from which it is clearly seen he is town. Reread it

You mean where you just quoted stuff?  That's called IIoA.

also, I've made some decisions based on "quoted stuff"

[J Reggie]

The why D2 specifically thing is specifically not a rolefish.

I read his post to say "I'll know better in the future."

I was curious why he thought D2 -- made me think right away that he'd decided he wasn't the NK.

Yeah, I totally believe this  . You're the other scum.

[ashersky]

The why D2 specifically thing is specifically not a rolefish.

I read his post to say "I'll know better in the future."

I was curious why he thought D2 -- made me think right away that he'd decided he wasn't the NK.

Yeah, I totally believe this  . You're the other scum.

What's the scum motivation for pressing him on that post?  If folks saw it as a softclaim, that's already all the info needed for scum, right?

[J Reggie]

The why D2 specifically thing is specifically not a rolefish.

I read his post to say "I'll know better in the future."

I was curious why he thought D2 -- made me think right away that he'd decided he wasn't the NK.

Yeah, I totally believe this  . You're the other scum.

What's the scum motivation for pressing him on that post?  If folks saw it as a softclaim, that's already all the info needed for scum, right?

You want more info about what PR he is? Idk let's just lynch you.

[pacovf]

I'm going to wait to hear what Paco makes (or avoids?) of the wifom thing before even trying to deal with it, because we've already got JR's take on it anyway.

I am not sure I understand, which WIFOM are you talking about? What PPS said after he got lynched? I think the wisest course of action would be to ignore. I agree with J Reggie that some of it might not be as WIFOMy as the rest, but still trying to psychoanalize someone over the internet seems dangerous at best.

Also agree that this day is going too slowly (partially due to the fact that there's about half as many people as during D1), but I am too busy to reread right now, and I don't really want to put my vote down before I do so.

[SpaceAnemone]

I'm going to wait to hear what Paco makes (or avoids?) of the wifom thing before even trying to deal with it, because we've already got JR's take on it anyway.

I am not sure I understand, which WIFOM are you talking about? What PPS said after he got lynched? I think the wisest course of action would be to ignore. I agree with J Reggie that some of it might not be as WIFOMy as the rest, but still trying to psychoanalize someone over the internet seems dangerous at best.

Also agree that this day is going too slowly (partially due to the fact that there's about half as many people as during D1), but I am too busy to reread right now, and I don't really want to put my vote down before I do so.

Yes, the stuff PPS was saying around the time of his lynch and twilight. Ignoring is a good answer, since it means less reading and puzzling for me!

I don't mean to stop and not re-read you too, but I had stuff on this evening. I'm going to be away and computerless for the weekend yet again, but I'm going less far than last weekend, and for slightly less long. I'll phone-lurk and maybe do short posts like last time :-)

[silverspawn]

Vote Count 3.1

J Reggie (2): LaLight, ashersky

Not Voting (3): J Reggie, pacovf, SpaceAnemone

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch. Day 3 ends at Oct 6, 17:00 forum time. That is in 5 days and 12+ hours.

[J Reggie]

Wait I'm not voting? vote: ash

[J Reggie]

Oh wow I'm at L-1. You guys should vote for ash if you're town and you want to win. Scum is probably already voting for me.

[ashersky]

Oh wow I'm at L-1. You guys should vote for ash if you're town and you want to win. Scum is probably already voting for me.

L-1 with no hammer for awhile makes you more likely to be scum.  Scum is always harder to lynch than town.

[J Reggie]

Oh wow I'm at L-1. You guys should vote for ash if you're town and you want to win. Scum is probably already voting for me.

L-1 with no hammer for awhile makes you more likely to be scum.  Scum is always harder to lynch than town.

By that logic you're even more likely to be scum.

[J Reggie]

I'm trying to decide whether I should self hammer. If I do you need to lynch ash.

[pacovf]

Self-gammering is completely anti-town, don't do it.

[pacovf]

*hammering, sorry, phone posting.

[pacovf]

I mean, I am reasonably sure it's either you or ashersky, and he's likely to be the lynch tomorrow (IMHO), so we would still win, but ugh just don't do it.

[ashersky]

Self-gammering is completely anti-town, don't do it.

As he's scum, he definitely won't do it.  There are very few players on this board willing to self-hammer as scum in these types of situations.

[ashersky]

Oh wow I'm at L-1. You guys should vote for ash if you're town and you want to win. Scum is probably already voting for me.

L-1 with no hammer for awhile makes you more likely to be scum.  Scum is always harder to lynch than town.

By that logic you're even more likely to be scum.

I'm not at L-1.  It's hard to get me there because only scum really wants to lynch me.  Townies either 1) have the correct gut feeling that I'm town or 2) are not sure enough to remove one of the last remaining veterans.

I'm not 100% sure it's you, but I feel strongly about it.  And we're in good enough shape that we can be wrong today, lose a townie at night, and be in a fairly good position at LYLO to figure out who's the final scum.

Like, I'd almost put money on the idea that if we lynch you and are wrong, the final three are me, Paco, and LaLight.

[LaLight]

Oh wow I'm at L-1. You guys should vote for ash if you're town and you want to win. Scum is probably already voting for me.

L-1 with no hammer for awhile makes you more likely to be scum.  Scum is always harder to lynch than town.

By that logic you're even more likely to be scum.

I'm not at L-1.  It's hard to get me there because only scum really wants to lynch me.  Townies either 1) have the correct gut feeling that I'm town or 2) are not sure enough to remove one of the last remaining veterans.

I'm not 100% sure it's you, but I feel strongly about it.  And we're in good enough shape that we can be wrong today, lose a townie at night, and be in a fairly good position at LYLO to figure out who's the final scum.

Like, I'd almost put money on the idea that if we lynch you and are wrong, the final three are me, Paco, and LaLight.

Because you'll kill SA?
I think I will be killed at night.

[J Reggie]

Ash, if you're town, unvote now. Otherwise you will be lynched tomorrow.

[ashersky]

Ash, if you're town, unvote now. Otherwise you will be lynched tomorrow.

Sounds like you think I'm town and you are worried scum will hammer.

[ashersky]

Ash, if you're town, unvote now. Otherwise you will be lynched tomorrow.

Want to vote Paco with me?

[J Reggie]

Ash, if you're town, unvote now. Otherwise you will be lynched tomorrow.

Sounds like you think I'm town and you are worried scum will hammer.

No, I'm worried there's a chance you might be town and are losing the game for us.

[pacovf]

I am currently working on my reread right now (ugh), but I have a question:

J Reggie, have you ever encountered a fake hammer in any of your f.ds games?

[pacovf]

D1:

PPS says Lalight unvote of me is scummier (108)

SA insists Lalight is usual Lalight (110)

Ash votes Lalight over helpfulness (129), PPS agrees

Lalight claims VT out of nowhere (133), complains about helpfulness being scummy

Ash says he could vote for McG (156) (because smileys), PPS asks why. Sort of starts wagon

RR votes McG over smileys (177)

ash readlist, only one town read, PPS (182). PPS gives opinion (188)

JR stands against finding smileys scummy, insists he's town (202)

my case on PPS and vote (212), starts wagon

PPS says he was avoiding buddying ash (217)

ash votes RR (228), starts wagon, McG had two votes on him

Lalight votes McG (229)

Lalight casts suspicion on RR and JR lurking (234)

JR votes RR, mentions hard to form reads because he doesn't know people (238)

ash casts suspicion on Zig lurking (246)

JR says to give day pass to Zig (248), then votes Zig (253), which ash says is scummy (254), then unvotes because meta (273)

ash insists RR is scummy (290)

JR could see McG-zig scum team (294), ash asks if he sees them bussing each other (295)

ash says rolecop should claim (296), JR agrees, then PPS asks what's the sense in it (305)

JR votes McG (324), L-1, then fake hammers (339), Lalight asks why complains he whould have had enough time to claim (340)

PPS starts diffusing fake claim

ash says PPS looks scummier (355), "like he is protecting a newbie partner"

JR says ash is scum and has a plan to make his partner claim (365)

McG claims motion detector

Lalight votes PPS, no explanation (383)

PPS readlist :

Anyhow, since I have a busy day ahead;

confTown:
McGarnacle

Maybe town:
J Reggie
SA

Null (from light to dark):
pacovf
ashersky
zigaton

Scum:
RR
LaLight

JR votes RR (395)

SA's case on JR (404), ash disagrees (405)

Zig soft claims (410), ash picks up on it, JR says not to prod, Lalight points out that was a silly thing to say

ash insists RR is scummy (428)

Lalight says he could lynch PPS or RR (433), then says he doesn't want to lynch RR because he was busy (438)

McG votes PPS (439), 3rd vote

PPS says scummiest is Lalight (443), votes RR (L-1)

JR unsure about PPS latest analysis, wants RR to flip (447)

McG derphammers (448)


Other notes from D1: ash speaks very little compared to what I am used to, JR constantly claims IC, McG and Lalight fight a lot.


D2:

PPS mentions ash rolefishing, reverses his mind on Lalight (457), Lalight votes ash without explanation

ash says scum on PPS/me (464)

JR votes ash (465)

PPS doubles down on ash, feels a bit forced (468)

When did I become a scum read for you, ashersky? You counted me town all yesterday except when I didn't play along with your parlor games. Now that I'm onto you your story changes?

You flat out fished Zigaton and J Reggie immediately called it out for what it was:

Lalights calls PPS scumslip and votes (471), JR votes too (472). Lalight goes hard on PPS

ash votes PPS (481), unvotes etc. Later quickhammers (510)

Twilight, lots of stuff from PPS


D3:

Lalight claims IC because scumsplip. Says PPS likely helped newscum, so wants to vote SA or me (549)

ash says previous comment from Lalight makes it seem like scumslip was fabricated, plans to reread (550)

Lalight rereads, votes JR (554), says things will be clearer after lynch

JR tries to analyze PPS twilight comment, can't really conclude (558)

ash rereads PPS D1, says I am most likely partner, then JR (574), notes SA absent from PPS posts (577)

JR says ash is biggest scumread, then me (579)

ash votes JR (581)



CONCLUSIONS:

I didn't even bother rereading SA in detail because they are so clearly town, my time is spent better anywhere else. I mean, if they are scum, they 120% deserve to win.

The constant attack of PPS on Lalight during D1, Lalight's (unexplained) vote on PPS right after McG claims, when RR was a perfectly good alternative, later refusal to vote for RR despite PPS being the only alternative, and picking up the "scumslip" in D2... pretty much guarantees Lalight is town. Realizing this already justifies the time I spent rereading.



That leaves only J Reggie and ashersky.

What I like about J Reggie: fake hammer of McG, instant vote on PPS after scumslip.

What I dislike about J Reggie: votes and positions a bit too jumpy, insistence on ICness, many scumreads on town.

What I like about ashersky: uuuh... PPS quickhammer, occasional defense of people known to be town now.

What I dislike about ashersky: casts suspicion on lots of people during D1, but rarely votes. Suddenly becomes his usual self after D2 is underway, after a long D1 where he was mostly in the shadows. Avoidance of PPS until quickhammer opportunity appears. Leads mislynch on RR. Rolefishing.

[pacovf]

J Reggie feels like a bit of a tossup, but ashersky has waaaay too many strikes against him to vote anyone else today.

Not voting for him yet, because in the unlikely case he is town, he is capable of self-hammering out of disgust. But do consider my vote to be on him.

[ashersky]

I think your pass for LaLight is dangerous.

[ashersky]

Refreshing playing with players who know very little about meta.  Every vet spectating is screaming about how I'm so transparent.

[J Reggie]

I am currently working on my reread right now (ugh), but I have a question:

J Reggie, have you ever encountered a fake hammer in any of your f.ds games?

Yes.

[ashersky]

M83 is a good reference.

[ashersky]

Also, unvote

[pacovf]

I think your pass for LaLight is dangerous.

And I think you are trying to setup D4 in case you manage to get J Reggie lynched

I am currently working on my reread right now (ugh), but I have a question:

J Reggie, have you ever encountered a fake hammer in any of your f.ds games?

Yes.

Would you mind pointing out where?

[ashersky]

vote: pacovf

Won't be changing.

[pacovf]

Yep, that's the only thing scum!ash can do right now.

Out of curiosity, why the change of heart?

[LaLight]

vote: ashersky

Considering Pacovf is townie town in my eyes, this is the only option out of this dialogue

[pacovf]

Well, I will wait a bit before hammering out of respect, even though I half expect scum!ashersky to self-hammer rather than letting me get in the final vote count.

[pacovf]

Also wait in case SA wants to add anything.

[ashersky]

Well, I will wait a bit before hammering out of respect, even though I half expect scum!ashersky to self-hammer rather than letting me get in the final vote count.

Vote: ashersky

[pacovf]

Ha, ok! What were you?

[LaLight]

I see

[ashersky]

Ha, ok! What were you?

Right.

[pacovf]

Well, sure, we can wait for the flip, if that's what you want, but if you are town and want to win, then that seems wasteful.

[ashersky]

You already know my alignment.

[SpaceAnemone]

Aw, yipes! Sorry everyone :-( I have sooo much re-reading to do elsewhere, and this one got a bit out of my depth, so I wasn't keeping up. Did Ash really just lynch himself??

[ashersky]

I really did.

If I am scum, I just threw the game.

If I am town, I just handed you the scum.

[LaLight]

I really did.

If I am scum, I just threw the game.

If I am town, I just handed you the scum.

If you threw the game, this is sad

[ashersky]

Yes, it would be.

[pacovf]

How does self-hammering guarantee that you are right? I really wish you didn't do this sort of thing.

[ashersky]

I really did.

If I am scum, I just threw the game.

If I am town, I just handed you the scum.

If you threw the game, this is sad

The good thing is, PPS is the kind of partner that will understand.

[ashersky]

How does self-hammering guarantee that you are right? I really wish you didn't do this sort of thing.

And I really wish people would just follow me blindly, ensuring victory.

But I guess neither of us can get what we want.

[ashersky]

The good news is, if I flip town, folks will know that everything I said was honest.

[pacovf]

And I really wish people would just follow me blindly, ensuring victory.

But I guess neither of us can get what we want.

Heh. Sure. I mean, this will be the third time you are 100% convinced I am scum ("If I claim daycop, will you lynch him?", remember that one?), and yet I turn out to be town, so I think even you trust yourself too blindly.

Anyway, doesn't look like you want to be useful, so we'll have to wait for the new day and see.

[ashersky]

Heh. Sure. I mean, this will be the third time you are 100% convinced I am scum ("If I claim daycop, will you lynch him?", remember that one?), and yet I turn out to be town, so I think even you trust yourself too blindly.

Anyway, doesn't look like you want to be useful, so we'll have to wait for the new day and see.

Scumslip bolded for emphasis.  Assuming a new day means you know I'm town.

[pacovf]

You've basically claimed town already.

[ashersky]

You've basically claimed town already.

You mean since the beginning of the game?  Yes, that's been clearly my message.

[pacovf]

Sure, that's exactly what I meant.

[ashersky]

I will say this:

J Reggie had an overall towny reaction to being scumread and receiving pressure.
Pacovf had an overall scummy reaction to being scumread and the slightest hint of possibly receiving pressure.

SA and LL were fairly absent, which hurts.

[silverspawn]

Final Vote Count Day 3

ashersky (3): J Reggie, LaLight, ashersky

Not Voting (2): SpaceAnemone, pacovf

With 5 alive, it took 3 to lynch.

[silverspawn]

In a more stable timeline without imminent thread, a purple, cat-sized figure jumped out of a split-second portal onto Slap's shoulder, among an environment that was no longer important enough to warrant further description.

"Hey there," Twilight said, "did you figure it out?"

"Oh, hi." Slap felt a tinge of surprise upon the personal visit. "I think so."

He shared his suspicion.

"That's it. Well done!"

"How do I kill-"

"Can't help you with that, sorry." Twilight said, nuzzling his neck. "Guess I'm pretty useless, huh?"

He hadn't been thrilled with the portals, but this...

"The, uhm." He gulped. "The link won't last much longer, will it?"

Twilight looked up from his shoulder. She was so tiny.

"No."

"Do you... have any..."

"Well..." her head turned back around, staring into the classroom. "Change is often coming, whether we like it or not. You won't have what you have now for that much longer, so just make the best of it. Right now you have something urgent to do. Aside from that, just... don't do anything that you know is stupid."

Slap J nodded. "Thanks." The faint glow of an immersing portal made him bite his lip. "And goodbye."

"Bye..."

One more affectionate stroke of her muzzle, and she stepped through the portal and was gone.

[silverspawn]

ashersky has been lynched. He was a Vanilla Townie and link to Twilight Sparkle.

Night 3 starts now and ends at October 04, 03:00 Forum Time.

[silverspawn]

Slp J felt a certain bubbly feeling as another portal announced itself to his right. Suddenly triggered, he stood up and made for the classroom door, signaling for his neighbor to follow. Better not risk a wildcard messing with time shenanigans.

It was time to think about the final step...

[silverspawn]

LaLight has died in the night. He was a Vanilla Townie, and link to Pinkie Pie.

Day 4 start!

[SpaceAnemone]

Yeah, it was going to be one of me and LL in the night :-( Now I have some hard thinking to do, and I'm guessing that you other two might not even be awake for a while.

I was sure towards the end of the day yesterday that it must be one of Ash or J Reggie, but then Ash died with his finger pointing firmly at Paco. Argh :-(

[J Reggie]

Ok I think this is my first time at 3 person lylo. Let's hope I make the right choice. I'm leaning towards PPS but I need to reread.

[J Reggie]

Oops I mean pacovf. Does that count as a townslip? 

Tbh though I hope I don't end up being the IC, that's too much work.

[pacovf]

Argh, I was hoping it would be Lalight, now I need to reread SA... I mean, I don't expect to find them scummier than J Reggie, but well they were considered IC by everybody so they shouldn't have survived until now and now I am paranoid.

[J Reggie]

Before any of us even thinks about voting, we all should do targeted rereads, culminating in a big post, of PPS and the other two people still alive. If anyone votes without doing this I will vote for them, so if you're town please don't throw the game by not doing rereads. This will help us make the right decision. I should get around to doing all of mine today.

[pacovf]

I agree that rereading is good, but I did a full reread on Sunday an not much has changed since then, so... I will take the time to look at SA in detail tomorrow evening.

[pacovf]

Hey J Reggie, you said you would do rereads today?

[J Reggie]

Hey J Reggie, you said you would do rereads today?

I did say that. Unfortunately that didn't happen.

[SpaceAnemone]

Well, I guess I'll go first, then! I was going to post mine last night, but I was super-tired, so I abandoned the post to a text file.

I've tried looking at pairwise interactions between each of you and PPS. There's a lot more on the Paco side, which I'm not that surprised by, since there was a half-adversarial relationship there. I think it could all have been an act, since if they are both scum there'll be some high-level playing there. But on the other hand, it would work out quite naturally that way with PPS being scum and Paco not being.

There's not a lot on the JR-PPS side at all, especially early on. My lists don't look as asymmetrical as all that, but when the posts got more engaged, I just copied the key sentence rather than the whole thing, that that happens much more between PPS and Paco than it did between PPS and JR. JR had a really low profile early in the game, but still he didn't really even acknowledge PPS's existence till post #447 as far as I can see.

I'll post the full set of direct interactions or mentions that I've pulled out, broken down into one-directional communication, at the end of this in one of those code boxes, since it's a bit long.

In terms of individual reads in isolation, I've had a bad feeling about J Reggie for quite a bit of the game. I know it seems pretty unlikely that a newbie would pick up on stuff that plenty of oldies have missed or disregarded, though. I didn't vote for him yesterday because I was totally torn between him and Ash and it got really tense, especially when Ash and LaLight were already voting for J Reggie. Then I concentrated on the other game and suddenly Ash was dead :-(

Ash seemed so convinced about Paco, though, which is the big worrying thing. I think actually this is part 1 of my post, and I need to do a part 2 that's an attempt at a case on Paco, just to be sure. If JR posts one in between, I'll try not to look at that, just so I know that mine is all my own thinking.

Code: [Select]

Paco on PPS:
#181 First reads list "PPS (jumping on easy votes, makes me feel uneasy)".
#212: "So I wanted to get back to you about my bad feeling." (post was much longer). Votes PPS.
#308: "Before I reread again, PPS or Zigaton would be ok lynches" (post was longer).
#309: "Also I seriously doubt that both PPS and ash are scum. Game would feel very different if they were."
#349: "I hope the reason I disapprove is obvious enough, if not, I will spell it out in due time."
#352: "You realize that this discussion is counterproductive to what J Reggie did, right?"
#354: "Sure. Still, I will stop posting for the time being." -- end of conversation between paco and PPS over JR's FH.
#381: "I am happy with my current vote on PPS." (part of a longer post)
#409 Mentions PPS as an example in taking down my JR case.
#417 Still puts PPS at the top of his lynch list.
#422: "You pressured me?" (part of a much longer response to PPS)
#423: "Consider my vote to be on any of PPS, RR or Lalight. Might vote for someone else if that is what it takes, but I hope it doesn't get to that."
#498: "I think PPS is just bad at reading setups. He might still be scum, but let's calm down."
#536: "Huh, so your partner is experienced?"

PPS on Paco:
69: "Seriously? Vote: pacovf" -- in response to Paco saying he's short on time.
#125: "I agree you aren't silverspawn but I only referenced him because he's a recent example and mod of this game." (post was longer). Example of why Paco's post would be scummy.
#188: "I suppose it's possible the Paco/LaLight pair have shown their hand that easily but it's a stretch. Paco omgusing me doesn't really sway me off the idea." (post was longer).
#217: "fair point, here. The rest is solid response, I like it." (post was longer) Response to Paco's defence of PPS's OMGUS aggusation.
#302: "Quite positive paco is town just because the wagon went way too quickly to L-1."
#348: "The question is, do you think what he did was scummy? Do you even know what he did?"
#350: "I am trying to figure out if it was a scummy thing to do." -- talking to Paco about JR's FH.
#353: "No, because if he didn't do it we wouldn't be having the discussion."
#394: PPS reads Paco as "null".
#412: "Looking at your breakdown I can't figure out why you favor RR over LaLight and especially me over the others. You still mad I pressured you?"
#445: "Big town read on Paco (despite him leading the charge on me)."
#446: Entire long response.

J Reggie on PPS:
#447: "I'm not sure about this recent stuff from PPS. I think I want RR to flip so we can analyze it." -- is this really the first time J Reggie mentions PPS?
#465: "Also if it's you and PPS, you will think it's you and PPS but not admit it. vote: ash"
#472: "Good catch! vote: PPS." -- in response to LaLight's catch of PPS's scumslip.
#478: "PPS is bad at reading setups but his reaction is scummy."
#538: "So PPS claiming ash is his partner is total Wifom, but being talked out of claiming cop... ash seems like one of the only ones who would do that besides me. And I'm IC so that means it's likely ash is PPS's partner."
#541: "Yeah, why not?" -- in response to PPS's twilight WIFOM question.
#542: "Agreed. We need to add this to the list of nicknames." -- about "pompomsan"

PPS on J Reggie:
#53: "I will vote McGarnacle tomorrow after we flip Vote: J Reggie for an obvious bus for cred."
#108: "No way. I see this is scum all the time." -- in response to JR's assertion that Paco's opening was townie.
#392: "The only other voters were SA and JR (who are the only ones I think appear to actually maybe be town around here)." (post was longer) -- I would feel worse about JR for this if I wasn't also mentioned!
#394: PPS reads JR as "maybe town".
#444: "Well, right off the bat I see I'm mixing up RR and JR"
#445: "J Reggie looks town as hell."
#446 Entire long response from PPS to Paco, but it includes a sentence on JR: "At the time I was simply trying to understand the purpose behind it to determine if JR was scum for doing it."
#450: "Pretty sure my vote was L-1 (which I called in bold)." Respose to JR mis-counting McGarnacle's vote.
#457: "POE means the ashersky/JR interaction around the soft-claim could have been a coordinated scum push pull tactic."
#468: "You flat out fished Zigaton and J Reggie immediately called it out for what it was" -- comment to Ash, but mentiones JR.
#539: "You don't seriously believe that, do you? You think I would openly out my partner in twilight?"


[J Reggie]

Ok, here's my PPS reread.  He has a lot of early interaction with me and pacovf (or at least talks about us a lot).

Good that I am not mafia, I don't really have the time to play scum right now.

Seriously? Vote: pacovf

Ok, I think pacovf's opening post is something you'd really only do as town.

No way. I see this is scum all the time. To wit, silverspawn's most recent Mafia world championship game he opened something similar and I immediately guessed him to be scum which is exactly how he turned out. The only thing I've seen scummiest this game is LaLight's unvote of Paco. Feeling pretty good about this read in light of that.

On mobile so responding to paco's multiquote post.

I agree you aren't silverspawn but I only referenced him because he's a recent example and mod of this game. This opener of hard claiming town comes more often than not from scum. So, if you are scum you are just like every scum who is or has been.

This is a kind of lame case on pacovf in response to me townreading him. 

Argh.. really sorry for not being present today :-( I've had a big concert this evening, and it went amazingly, but I've just come home from the afterparty and it's too late to do thinking... though I'd have a chance to phonepost between the rehearsals and concert, but I was rushed off my feet. I'll definitely make time to do proper reading tomorrow :-)

Being at a concert... Sounds scummy to me! 

This joke is scummy.  Plus emoticon.

Oh, not you as well!! Silver seemed to take issue with my use of smilies right from my first game :-( For some of us, they're just useful forms of written communication, and they don't mean anything at all about our scumminess or lack thereof!

Scum always says that.

This is PPS's first interaction with SA.  So far he's cast suspicion on pacovf and SA without providing any real cases.  This isn't particularly helpful. 

Today, I hold the idea we will actually hit scum very loosely and look for the most informative flip which is still pretty loose as well, it's D1 after all. I've got no strong town reads and no strong scum reads. Being a newbie game I suppose it's possible the Paco/LaLight pair have shown their hand that easily but it's a stretch. Paco omgusing me doesn't really sway me off the idea.

Proposes a paco/LL pair.  Scum points to Paco for that.  One on and one off is a common scum tactic. 

Note: 5 out of 8 players have expressed an interest in lynching me, so it's kinda hard for me to vote for someone without OMGUSing them...

fair point, here.

The rest is solid response, I like it. I don't agree with it too much seeing as I know my own alignment to be contrary to your implications but I can't really fault your line of reasoning, either. I'll be the first to admit that I suffer greatly from reading those who implicate me as town as being town themselves. I was trying to avoid this with ash and even considered voting him over it because he knows this about me. I am actually pretty impressed you highlighted buddying behavior of mine when I would have thought I had successfully avoided it.

Very hedgy here.  Seems like he's trying too hard to respond to Pacovf's vote on him without furthering the suspicion on pacovf.  More scum points to pacovf. 

I don't like the corralling thing you mention, though... isn't the whole point of D1 was to get people talking and into the game? Otherwise, why would it be so long. We have zero information to go on, so we have to make people talk to each other.

Yeah, we need to talk and all but the real deal is the day ends and it would be really dumb to go no lynch so face the facts; at some point we have to agree on a lynch. If it's going to be a mislynch usually scum is doing the corralling so scum would be uncomfortable with that notion being brought out so explicitly. Expect a scum lynch to be fairly hard to come by since they are very unlikely to help in that. Quite positive paco is town just because the wagon went way too quickly to L-1. I suppose there could be some early bussing that got out of hand (so LaLight is a prime suspect, there) or it just happened like that and somebody got scared of being on the tail end of it and forcing it through (oh, look, LaLight is the bad guy, again).

I believe this is in response to SA by the way.  Obviously at this point this case for pacovf being town is totally bogus, implying that he could only be scum if his partner bussed.  Well, his partner would have to be PPS, who didn't bus, so this totally could have been a wagon on scum.  So, bogus defense of pacovf = scum points to pacovf. 

Also note that in a game with only two scum, they really really can't afford to lose one D1.  So PPS's defense here isn't out of the question for scum to do.  On the flip side, PPS had barely interacted with SA at all at this point, which is totally possible because SA didn't have much suspicion D1.  So this leans towards pacovf but no one has been implicated yet. 

What are these facts?For example?
P.S. Specially for newbie

I'm not sure I follow. The fact I was referring to was the one about the day will end and if we don't lynch somebody we will just start D2 with one of us dead and maybe some worthwhile night action results if we are lucky but more likely we will be in no better position than now. I brought this up because the inevitability of avoiding the above situation is getting a lynch vote in. SA said they didn't like the notion of corralling votes but that is exactly what will have to happen.

Coaching of SA here?  Ehhh, I can see it but it's not really likely. 

vote: McGarnacle

I disapprove. Especially in a newbie game.

The question is, do you think what he did was scummy? Do you even know what he did?

No. Yes. I hope the reason I disapprove is obvious enough, if not, I will spell it out in due time.

I am trying to figure out if it was a scummy thing to do. McGarnacle was already L-1 so town!JReg wasn't forcing a claim unless he was hoping scum!McG would out himself in "twilight". I don't see a scum motivation for it at all. So, pretty null on it. When you say no do you mean null or town?

Here's an interaction.  I really can't get much from this.  Like, if they are partners they're doing a good job of having interactions that don't seem forced, but they're both experienced so I wouldn't be surprised.  Meh, I was hoping for more from this interaction but it's pretty null. 

PPS had a lot to say about the whole rolecop thing but it's an interaction with Ash so there's not much to take from it.  I guess what I can learn is that I thought ash was scum based on his interactions with PPS but I was wrong, so I have to rethink my analysis of those kinds of interactions for this case.  Good to know. 

In fact, looking at the McGarnacle wagon I see my prime suspect LaLight and then RR both move their vote directly to me once they forced a claim out of a townie. The only other voters were SA and JR (who are the only ones I think appear to actually maybe be town around here).

I'll go with my D1 meta and call a scum team of RR/LaLight. My vote stands.

Says SA is probably town.  This comes after very little interaction between the two.  What I have to deduce is: does PPS prefer to fake a lot of interactions with his partner or have almost none and hope no one notices?

Later in reads list, he says SA is maybe town and pacovf is null.  Okay. 

Well, right off the bat I see I'm mixing up RR and JR. No, RR is a top scum read for me. There is early partnering behavior between him and LaLight. Feeling much better about the way this is shaping up already. Still a whole bunch of reread to do but for now Unvote.

This big post is mostly for me to work things out and show my work, but I want to take a second to note this points to me being town.  Why would PPS mix up his partner with his top faked scum read?  Like that seems way too dangerous and unproductive. 

Big town read on Paco (despite him leading the charge on me). He's playing entirely too forthright to be scum. If he's scum he is super good at it. I mean, I think he's also being super good at town.
...
SA and Ziggy are both cryptic to me in wholly different ways. SA is participatory and lucid and being a newbie with this much material posted I think scum!SA would have shown their hand somewhere and I haven't seen it. Ziggy, well, there's the language thing which I think is cutting both ways. He is entirely too cryptic for me to read one way or the other. Big fat null on him. If he is scum he certainly isn't controlling the game.

"If he's scum he's super good at it" scum points to paco.  Still townreading SA without giving much of a reason.  So uhhh

You pressured me?

Yes, I feel i was instrumental in your early wagon. At the very least this is what I was referring to.

Both RR and you feel a bit off from your usual playstyle. Of course once you point that out it becomes a huge meta ball, but still. I prefer you slightly over RR because you are a bit scarier,

RR feels off because he is scum and he's not terribly good at it. RR is obvtown when he's town. Me, i don't realyl have a usual play style. if anything, I'd say I am far easier top spot as scum than as town. As town I feel safer playing loose and attracting attention because if I go down there's good interaction around me to analyze. I think we've only played one game together before and I seem to recall being scum that game? If that is the case then me seeming off would because I'm not scum now.

because trying to defuse the fake hammer doesn't look good (especially when you say it's ok because it created interactions or whatever),

The fake hammer thing was going to get some one in hot water regardless. What I mewan is there was no probability of snaring scum but 10-0% probability someone was going to get a  wagon on them just for looking at it. At the time I was simply trying to understand the purpose behind it to determine if JR was scum for doing it. I'm not entirely sure I've seen a fake hammer in any of my games before so i was processing the import of it in real time. Had I know what they represent prior tot hat point I would have probably stayed entirely silent. Anyhow, i stand by the fact that we now have a wagon on me because of it so clearly it created valuable interaction. Unfortunately one fo my biggest town reads ran with that so if I die over it isn't likely to bring suspicion on any scum.

and because lynching lurkers D1 is a double edged sword. It's not a super huge preference mind you.

I'm not seeing Zigaton as a lurker (but I'm calibrated by the likes of chairs and that other guy who posts so little I can't even remember his name)

I prefer either of you to Lalight because he's a newbie, which is always harder to predict.

At least you are honest about wanting to lynch out the vets first which is ironic considering you are one of them moreso than several others.

Big response to pacovf.  First of all I think PPS is lying/mistaken about leading the charge on pacovf.  From my point of view he defended him.  A lot of this post is just PPS defending himself.  I do find it interesting that he was so against lynching vets first.  This would make a lot of sense if both scum were vets. 

That's basically it for D1.  I'm going to post this now so I don't lose it, but I'm already leaning toward pacovf.  There's a lot to go though. 

[J Reggie]

PPS' D2:

Reread SA and feel good about them being town. I know they started the wagon on McGabber but got off immediately post-claim; and also ended up on RR but, hey look, Ashersky/JR got that one rolling.

I don't understand how it happened. But why do you lynching RR?

Not saying anything is a really good way for scum to hide. Also, Ash pointed out that one of the relatively few posts RR was scummy a while back (post #290). Now he's asserting he's the scummiest person out there, presumably because he's been so lurky here, and yet usually if he's town he's more obviously helpful (he's been in the other games I've played too).

Getting a bit meta, Ash really doesn't seem to say much of anything at all here -- he's mostly acting and voting without a lot of commentary, unlike the other two oldies -- but the other two seem to respect him and not read that as suspicious, which gives me a bit more confidence in what he's saying. That's one reason I don't want to lose the super-experienced players too quickly, because second-hand meta-reading seems to be something we might be able to pull off to help us :-)

Vote: RR

This looks perplexing to me, though. Seems the vote should have been on ashersky unless you're saying you sheeped ashersky hoping he was town? Can you elucidate your position on the RR wagon?

This does look like a forced town read on SA, but at that point SA was townie to everyone so PPS could have just been doing this to appear towny?  Eh, null.

Here's the scumslip for reference:

Still want to see if McGladiator got results before I place a vote. If I understand his role correctly his target lights up if they did some targeting or were targeted themselves. Here's hoping he targeted ashersky. I would also hope if Ziggy targeted ash it would still light up? Silver, will the Motion Detector still detect on the target or actions of the Cop who got NK'd?

Of course, the setup is now known to have a Scum RB and it makes good sense to have killed Ziggy and blocked the other known PR.

He then insists that we lynch him regardless of his alignment.  Here's where things get tricky.  There are many reasons he could have done this.  He could be hoping for some weird sort of towncred, like "oh PPS is a martyr don't kill him".  He could also be trying to coach his partner into voting for him for town cred.  SA was already on his wagon so is this him trying to get paco to vote for him?  I really doubt it. 

Then comes this:

Look, I had to be talked out of coming straight out fake claiming cop so I could force a counter claim and out the cop and maybe even get him mislynched to boot, so this was a disappointing exit.

Of course it's the ultimate WIFOM.  Here he is subtly implying that his partner is a vet.  Does he do that because he's not thinking clearly or because he's thinking very clearly, and if the latter then which way does it point?  I think it points a little to him having an experienced partner, but not really enough to make a case.  Still, this corroborates with my scum lean on pacovf, so it just adds slightly to that. 

So PPS claiming ash is his partner is total Wifom, but being talked out of claiming cop... ash seems like one of the only ones who would do that besides me. And I'm IC so that means it's likely ash is PPS's partner.

You don't seriously believe that, do you? You think I would openly out my partner in twilight?

This is what really takes the cake though.  This seems like a kind of panicked response, rather than furthering the WIFOM.  Like realizing he gave a clue and trying to make it look like he did it on purpose.  Still, this is not a case that would fly in court. 

And then he died.  So what I got from this reread is obviously a slight lean towards pacovf but also some interactions with SA that I need to reread SA to understand more.  I think I'll do pacovf next, but I need to take a little break.  (that's going in the out of context thread after the game, isn't it?)

[pacovf]

I wanted to reread tonight, but my day didn't quite go as I hoped. I will do my best tomorrow, because I will be V/LA Saturday to Monday included...

[pacovf]

When does the day end?

[silverspawn]

Oh, sorry.

Vote Count 4.0

Not Voting (3): SpaceAnemone, pacovf, J Reggie

With 3 alive, it takes 2 to lynch. Day 4 ends at October 11, 11:00 Forum Time.

[J Reggie]

I wanted to reread tonight, but my day didn't quite go as I hoped. I will do my best tomorrow, because I will be V/LA Saturday to Monday included...

Yeah, I'm also going to be pretty much vla over the weekend. I'll try and finish my rereads today.

[SpaceAnemone]

I wanted to reread tonight, but my day didn't quite go as I hoped. I will do my best tomorrow, because I will be V/LA Saturday to Monday included...

Yeah, I'm also going to be pretty much vla over the weekend. I'll try and finish my rereads today.

I'm mostly afk this evening (i.e. from about 2pm forum time) till tomorrow morning (i.e. middle of the night forum time), but for the first time in months I have neither travel nor performance commitments nor houseguests over the weekend, so I can actually be here!

[pacovf]

Ok seriously Real Life what the hell.

I wish I had more time, but right now it's just piling up, and I really hope it doesn't cost us the game.

Notes on SA:

Suuuuper Townie

defends Lalight all game long

Actually fairly devoid of content all D1...? Only one random vote for most of the day. Kind of actilurking.

Fluffy

Flimsy case on J Reggie.

vote RR over ash case. doubles down a bit on it.

Does vote PPS fairly early, but asks if they should unvote when noticing the L-1, then unvotes when PPS defends himself

Goes back to wanting to lynch J Reggie, doubles down

Starts D4 with a comment about nightkill (don't usually like this sort of arguments but still)

Also people have mentioned how PPS was avoiding talking about or to SA until very late.




...ok, I did NOT expect this at all, but when compared with J Reggie's fake hammer and instant willingness to lynch PPS over scumslip, and despite the OVERWHELMING

[pacovf]

fat fingers.

...despite the OVERWHELMING towniness of all their posts... I actually want to lynch SpaceAnemone today.

[pacovf]

Will defend myself if need to, but the main thing is how hard I drove PPS during D1 (started his wagon, nearly got him lynched after McGarnacle claimed, I never moved my vote away from him).

Also, trivially true that if I were scum, it would have been way smarter to keep Lalight alive, considering he thought I was the towniest town ever and basically lynched ash for me just because I said so (while SpaceAnemone was a crapshoot).


I REALLY hope I just won the game for town, because what I am putting off just to be able to make these last two posts is ridiculously important, and I will barely have more time until the deadline.

[J Reggie]

Ok, the PPS reread made me want to lynch pacovf but rereading SpaceAnemone I can totally see them being scum. I'll try and get a good case together tomorrow morning, but it won't be quite as detailed as my PPS reread.

[SpaceAnemone]

Huh, that's not what I expected!

Actually fairly devoid of content all D1...? Only one random vote for most of the day. Kind of actilurking.

I was trying so hard to get people talking to each other, because I really didn't know how else to make the game work! I have a hard time speaking up in games where everyone knows each other (see BSG and the other still-running game), so it was pretty exciting to have one where I wasn't the odd one out. The other game I managed to interact so much was Olympics, and there, my newbie status and enthusiasm made me the N1 kill, which was not a fun introduction to forum mafia, especially since it's my only PR to date!

Flimsy case on J Reggie.

I was trying! I still think he's more likely to be scum than you are, and even Ash was willing to vote for him at one point (before deciding you are scummier!), so I don't think my feeling suspicious of him was as much of a stupid move as you're making out, regardless of whether I'm able to articulate it well enough for a strong case.

Does vote PPS fairly early, but asks if they should unvote when noticing the L-1, then unvotes when PPS defends himself

If you look at the timing of the posts there, you might see that my "okay, unvote" was in response to your post saying we need to calm down -- the PPS one just came along only seconds before mine, and wasn't one I'd read before reacting. Yes, I clicked through the red warning text, but that's because everything was just going really fast. I'd already said in-game that I was distracted cooking dinner, so I figured that wasn't a big deal... especially after you'd just accused me of almost doing a derp-hammer!

Starts D4 with a comment about nightkill (don't usually like this sort of arguments but still)

It seemed like a relevant comment on the game when there are so few of us left! And it would have been much less stressful on me if LaLight was the one having to puzzle it out between the two of you!

Also people have mentioned how PPS was avoiding talking about or to SA until very late.

Go back to #196 and see what a pleasant person he sounded like to interact with. Then the exchange at #222/#239... I think it's enough to explain things!

despite the OVERWHELMING towniness of all their posts... I actually want to lynch SpaceAnemone today

This is going to be a shitty way to end the game :-( Can you go and look at the two places I've already been mislynched and see how very similar the situations are? In BSG it was lylo too, and I got called scummy basically for defending myself, or being quiet at the wrong time, or for wanting more experienced town people around who I could trust and meta-read. Honestly, go and read those and then tell me you still think there's a chance I'm scum here!

J Reggie, you've already seen at least one of those -- do you seriously think I'm being any different in this game?

[pacovf]

Sorry if I was blunt, life is crazy right now and I don't have the time to phrase my thoughts properly, please don't take anything personally...

I am the first one surprised by my conclusion of the reread. I was 100% expecting to come out of it voting for J Reggie, but that's not what happened. I don't really have the time for more rereads right now, I will try to check the games you mentioned but I can't promise anything.

The main thing is, your thought process is very very townie, but that might just be the way you think. When I get down to concrete actions, JReggie looks better than you. Have you already been mafia here?

[J Reggie]

So pacovf opens pretty aggressively, and he and PPS clash like right off the bat. The interesting thing though is they seem to direct attention conveniently away from each other as D1 goes on. I feel like he's doing all the stuff scum likes to do to look like they're forwarding the game without getting their partner lynched.

Spaceanemone kind of actilurks D1. I can see them being scum for that but can also see that as town having trouble getting into the game.

I think I've made up my mind at this point. I'm going to be semi-vla all weekend so I'm hoping to place my vote today. I won't do it before you two are done rereading though.

[SpaceAnemone]

The main thing is, your thought process is very very townie, but that might just be the way you think. When I get down to concrete actions, JReggie looks better than you. Have you already been mafia here?

Nope, I was Watcher in Olympics, but got NKd before I got a chance to do anything. I've been VT in everything else so far.

[pacovf]

I was constantly on PPS, it might have looked like I deflected only because before McG claimed, people didnt seem interested in lynching PPS

[SpaceAnemone]

Big re-read on Paco, since I didn't actually post a comprehensive one earlier.

Will you explain 89% thing?

Eventually, yes, but first I would like to know who I am playing with (hence my newbie question). It helps understand everybody's reactions. I am particularly wary of experienced players that I've never played with before.

-- having opened with an 89% serious vote on Ash, he gets quite criptic about his reasons, and never does go back and explain quite what he was up to.

No way. I see this is scum all the time. To wit, silverspawn's most recent Mafia world championship game he opened something similar and I immediately guessed him to be scum which is exactly how he turned out.

Well, silverspawn and I are different people, I think? Otherwise I wouldn't be able to play this game. Because I would also be modding it. And I would know everybody's alignment. And that would be cheating.

-- does this read like it could be a set-up conversation between scum partners, before they got into the adversarial stuff?

Paco omgusing me doesn't really sway me off the idea.

So I wanted to get back to you about my bad feeling.

See, what I normally see about other players, when they get invested in a game as you are, is that half their cases or reads seem to come out of nowhere. Half the time they won't ever explain them. And the other half, even after they explain them, there's a good 40% the reasons will seem weird to me! Best case scenario, they just OMGUS people and bend themselves backwards to find a reason to find them scummy. This is only more true in your case, since your thought process and mine are very different, from what I remember playing with you or reading your games.

But here, you've jumped on the "hard claim town" and "overly helpful" cliche arguments for finding someone scummy (I was aware that opening with a town claim is considered scummy in this forum, I wanted to see who would jump on it). Super safe, super forgettable reasons and votes. I am wary of that.

-- this one just makes me uneasy because he's clearly playing a complicated game whatever level you read it on: he's saying he's town opening scummily, but saying it to someone we now know to be scum, but he could easily also be scum himself saying it to cover any minor scummy stuff he does while trying to cover up his motives.

We've still got what 5 days till the end of the day, so we don't need to rush for a lynch quite yet. Before I reread again, PPS or Zigaton would be ok lynches, so would be McGarnacle and Lalight, and I am promoting J Reggie to lynchable by virtue of me not remembering if h's done anything memorable yet. RR and McG would be the main targets of a reread, I think.

-- I distinctly remember in one of the other games people complaining about anyone who tries to convince town that we've got plenty of time left, because the risk of missing a deadline and not getting a lynch is bad. PPS reiterates the same point 11 posts later!

After the last vote is cast, you are guaranteed to die, and you get to speak until the mod sees that last vote and closes the thread.

I haven't been following the game super closely the last two days, can someone remind me why we think McG is scum?

-- Is asking other people to make cases that he can then jump on a scum tactic? Especially when at that point he's voting for PPS.

There's a whole section around J Reggie's fakehammer that I just don't know how to handle, because it's quite a long conversation in which PPS and Paco are the main players. Hard to work out what's townie and what's not even with one of them conf!scum in retrospect.

No, it looks like it wasn't.

I am fairly busy, and need time to mull over the recent developments, but please don't go lynching people without taking the time to think things through?

-- One of Paco's posts urging things to slow down when the PPS lynch was in progress.

I think PPS is just bad at reading setups. He might still be scum, but let's calm down.

Mafia either have a roleblocker or an investigation inmune scum, so McG wouldn't have given us any new info other than telling us which setup we have, which is 100% irrelevant now. So whatevs.

-- and the "let's calm down" part that ended up making me unvote, which he then managed to scumread me for later on.

Heh. Sure. I mean, this will be the third time you are 100% convinced I am scum ("If I claim daycop, will you lynch him?", remember that one?), and yet I turn out to be town, so I think even you trust yourself too blindly.

Anyway, doesn't look like you want to be useful, so we'll have to wait for the new day and see.

Scumslip bolded for emphasis.  Assuming a new day means you know I'm town.

-- This is one useful piece of particularly useful evidence that Ash left us with.

Argh, I was hoping it would be Lalight, now I need to reread SA... I mean, I don't expect to find them scummier than J Reggie, but well they were considered IC by everybody so they shouldn't have survived until now and now I am paranoid.

-- This could easily be a WIFOM thing with the NK if Paco is scum, especially since LL and I were both townread, and LL was the one voting for JR yesterday. I think it's safe to say that it's usually possible to make a scum case on anyone if you're feeling paranoid, because I feel like I can believe either JR or Paco can come off as scummy based on my re-reads to date.

It's hard to reconcile my most-of-the-game scumread on JR with the Ash-evidence and scumslip Paco, especially because even coming into D4 I thought Paco was town, but then a bunch of the stuff above doesn't look great.

I'm also worried because JR hasn't posted any actual re-read on either me or Paco.. presumably scum have a harder time reading people if they know they're town? He did post on PPS, but then that's a known scum already, so presumably easier to deal with. I think that's my biggest doubt left at this stage.

[pacovf]

Ehrm obviously I disagree with a lot of what you say, but I don't have the time to get into detail. Just to say that ash would have said he was scum once lynched, so the fact that he didnt meant he was town. Only hurtpride!ash could construe that as a scumslip.

[pacovf]

Man, first time I reach Lylo and I have no time, which sucks because otherwise I would be able to go into how nonsensical some of the arguments flying around are.

[J Reggie]

Wait, is the deadline Tuesday? If so I'll have time to do comprehensive posts for SpaceAnemone and Paco.

[pacovf]

Well V/LA starting very soon. I will try to get in before Monday night if I can, but can't guarantee anything.

[SpaceAnemone]

Wait, is the deadline Tuesday? If so I'll have time to do comprehensive posts for SpaceAnemone and Paco.

Yes, 11am forum time on Tuesday.

[J Reggie]

Ok, I'll try to get those rereads done tonight, and otherwise tomorrow.

[J Reggie]

Pacovf reread:

Been a while since I've been in a game. Can the newbies tell us how newbie they are?

Good that I am not mafia, I don't really have the time to play scum right now.

Oh and vote: Ashersky. 89% serious vote

No need to thank me for trying to shorten RVS (random voting stage)

Very polarizing opening post.  I initially thought it was scummy, then too scummy to be scum.  He got a lot of suspicion for this though, especially by experienced players like Ash.  The whole thing about "early wagons are always on town" is so not true.  In fact, the fact that he got to L-2 early and then nothing came of it is super suspicious. 

I like you already.

Will check later, when I am done doing the things I am procrastinating on right now.

Tries to buddy me.  Scum points. 

This joke is scummy.  Plus emoticon.

Not superstrong, but I guess no D1 case ever is...

In the mean time, vote: Zigaton. Only posted twice, and both posts raised red flags for me.

This vote feels scummy to me.  It did get a big wagon on town started. 

I think it's time for a read list:

Would lynch:

Zigaton (as far as I am concerned, his second post was super scummy. Might be me OMGUSing, I am hoping it isn't)
PPS (jumping on easy votes, makes me feel uneasy)
Lalight (has done some things typically attributed to scum)

McGarnacle (don't feel very strongly about this one, but will vote if necessary)

Would not lynch:

SpaceAnemone (strongish townread)
RoadRunner (mild townread)

No opinion:

ashersky (not as confrontational as he usually is, dunno how to feel about that)
J Reggie (barely present)

Two towns and his partner in the "would lynch" seems about right for scum. 

-snip-
Actually, I think I am going to put my vote where my words are, vote: PPS.


Note: 5 out of 8 players have expressed an interest in lynching me, so it's kinda hard for me to vote for someone without OMGUSing them...

Big post, followed by a reluctant vote on scum, then saying that it's hard not to OMGUS anyone at this point... yeah, looks like a bus. 

He only played in one game, per the records, and he was town (and won).

Actually, I've played in 4 games, always VT (sort of, for RMM21). I've been in NM6, M50, RMM21, and M64, in that order. Even got MVP in NM6, in a rather embarrassing way </humblebrag>

The recent exchange between Lalight and McGarnacle is... interesting...

Would definitely like to hear more from RR and J Reggie.

Zigaton, do you have a basic idea of what's going on? Do you have any questions? If you have no idea of what's going on, post a short list of what you think of every player. It doesn't necessarily have to be based on facts, just the general feel you get from each player is enough, even if you can't quite explain them.

SCUMSLIP! (lol jk)

but seriously, the Zigaton thing is total backpedaling after starting that wagon.  Just this post in general is scummy. 

Fair enough. What's your position on the other players? Am I the only one you would like to see lynched?

Hmm, I know that saying someone's case on you is good or in this case "fair enough" is often seen as scummy.  Not sure if I buy it though.

Also I seriously doubt that both PPS and ash are scum. Game would feel very different if they were.

Not sure what to think here.  This is probably something I'd have said as scum, but it also makes it hard for Pacovf to go after ash in the case that PPS flips.

Fakehammer thing is here.  Not sure why he disapproved of that.  I think scum is more likely to do that. 

Well, let's not lose momentum here either. I am happy with my current vote on PPS. Zigaton would be an ok lynch too, but I wouldn't be unhappy to let him be until D2, where we will also have two flips to better understand whatever his deal is. Need to reread Lalight and RR to see how happy I would be about their lynches, especially after whatever has been going the past few days and that I haven't had the time to analyze yet (notably McG's claim).

I won't lynch SA or J Reggie today (and probably never), McG is presumably town, and I think I like what I've seen from ash today, so he's off the list for now.

Overall I think we're having a solid D1.

If he's scum, he's removing a bunch of townies from his lynch list here, which scum would presumably not want to do.  He is looking for alternatives to PPS without looking like he's too eager to get off that wagon, though, which is scummy. 

Obviously I don't know what ash thinks, but I can tell you this:

So then I'm left with JR and RR, and I expected my reread to back up JR's case on RR, but it doesn't. JR is so absent early on that he'd posted more stuff before it had started than in its early pages. He voted for Paco because of his opening statement about not being Mafia (#68), then later made a point of saying it's something you'd only do as town (#96), and then goes on to say he's town a whole bunch of times, which is essentially the same thing as being not Mafia.

This is not very strong. In the early stages of the game, people usually vote randomly, to try to get real interactions started. Once things start to develop, people get more serious about their votes. So him voting for me in RVS (Random Voting Stage), then saying that he actually thinks I am town and unvoting is not scummy at all.

He's quite jumpy about votes, like saying he won't vote for Zigaton, then voting for him, then going back to RR, who he'd been voting for earlier. Actually, he seems to be quite against RR in general, when RR's actually not really said anything too suspicious (though it would be good if he'd interact more!).

I think he said that he wanted to give a newbie D1 pass to Zigaton, which doesn't say much about what his position on him is. When other people disagreed about newbie D1 passes, he started voting for him.

Focussing on a player can be a townie thing to do. Townies often get tunnel vision on a player. Of course, mafia can fake this, which helps make them less accountable if somebody else gets lynched, but they are sort of giving up their vote.

Basically, these two arguments are weak-ish, because they are not much more likely to come from scum than from mafia. If, say, we lynched PPS and he flipped scum, then you could say that J Reggie focussing on RR so much right now would be scummy, because he would be trying to deflect from a PPS lynch. But with the information we have right now, I don't see it.

Do scums do fake hammers to look townie? Especially ones who know there are some newbie-but-learning people like me and LaLight who might then assume he's good? I think this might be like WIFOM, but I'm still generally not liking it.

This is the part that makes it particularly unlikely that J Reggie is scum. We now know that McG is town. Let's assume that J Reggie is scum (noted scum!JR), and McG is a Vanilla Townie (noted VT!McG), because back then we didn't know McG had a PR (Power Role).

So scum!JR sees McG at L-1, with town being generably agreeable to lynching him. It wasn't guaranteed to happen, but it looked likely. scum!JR can do nothing at all, or insist on how scummy McG is. Result: D1 ends with a mislynch. Or we can fake-hammer him. Two possible results, assuming McG actually believes he is lynched: he reacts in a more or less neutral way, so we are back to L-1 without much difference. Or, much more likely, he reacts in an overwhelmingly townie way, and now nobody wants to lynch him, basically giving town a confirmed town player for no reason at all. The odds of McG reacting in a scummy way are basically zero, since he is town and believes he is lynched.

If you are scum, fake hammering a townie serves no purpose at all, and more likely than not will hurt your position, when you were already about to mislynch a townie. Considering that J Reggie is a more experienced player, the chances that he did this are close to zero. So that's why ash, PPS and me think he is town.

Whole lot of stuff here.  He still doesn't say why he disapproves of the fakehammer.  Also, he tries to setup my mislynch if he knows that PPS is scum. 

You pressured me?

Both RR and you feel a bit off from your usual playstyle. Of course once you point that out it becomes a huge meta ball, but still. I prefer you slightly over RR because you are a bit scarier, because trying to defuse the fake hammer doesn't look good (especially when you say it's ok because it created interactions or whatever), and because lynching lurkers D1 is a double edged sword. It's not a super huge preference mind you.

I prefer either of you to Lalight because he's a newbie, which is always harder to predict. Also, for what it's worth, SA insists this is normal!Lalight.

Nevertheless, either of these (or Zigaton) would make for a good lynch.

This interaction seems fake to me.  I think when I initially reread pacovf and SA but didn't post anything, this was the thing that made me the most sure pacovf was the one. 

That's basically it from D1.  He isn't around for the deadline, so not much interaction to look at there.  I'm happy with voting him based on this alone.  Then there's this:

...please tell me that wasn't ANOTHER derphammer

which is scummy considering he was voting for PPS basically all of D1.  Why would he be upset?  He then asks some PR questions so that he doesn't have to comment on the whole scumslip thing

Well this definitely feels a lot more like ash. Damn, he might just have gotten MVP here. Curse you, I was going for it. I'll have to find scum tomorrow then.

Ooo, scummy vibes here. 

OK, I'll post this now. 

[J Reggie]

Instead of doing a giant reread post of SA, I just want to look at the biggest case against them: that there's no way they could have lived this long as town. 

So yes, SA has been pretty towny all game, despite being rather fluffy D1.  So it would have made sense for non-SA!scum to kill them because there's no way they're getting lynched, right?  Well look at the kills scum has made.  Two of them are PRs, which are much more useful to kill because not only can they potentially out scum, but they can also become ICs, which is really irksome for scum, especially in a small game.  Then, there's LaLight, who is arguably more towny than SA.  That's really the only time SA could have died.  We can look at all the reasons why scum would or wouldn't have kept SA over LaLight, but really, I think this is a case where the simplest answer is actually the right one. 

I've made up my mind, and there's not much more time.  We have less than a day.  Not voting now is only harming us even more.  I think it's time now to vote: Pacovf.  If I'm wrong, I apologize to town for losing the game.  If I'm right, YAY.  But no sense in letting this drag on.

[SpaceAnemone]

Vote: pacovf

[pacovf]

Damn, well played SA, well deserved win

[pacovf]

There was no way I could convince J Reggie to vote for SA with how little time I had. Overall I am still happy with how I played.

[pacovf]

Also, ash... Third time you do silly things because you are 120% convinced I am scum, even though I am town. Please keep it in mind next time we play.

[SpaceAnemone]

\o/
That was scary :-P

[pacovf]

To be fair, I was SO scared of being wrong about you, I just waited for J Reggie to vote and decide for me, so I can't really blame him, reluctance to vote is scummy. His final case on me is 80% taken out of context though. But again, I just had no time this last week for huge rereads and speaking cases.

[pacovf]

*sprawling cases, my autocorrect is a bit psychotic.

[SpaceAnemone]

I was so sure you guys were going to catch me when neither of you came into the current day phase going after each other. I thought a more thorough re-read of RR's mislynch and the way I just didn't say anything about PPS's wagon was going to be my downfall... I've been on edge for days!!

It's been a lot of fun, though :-) Thank you everyone!!

[SpaceAnemone]

I guess Silver isn't around till tomorrow now? I guess there's still a tiny chance this is just another kind of FH trick you're luring a newbie into, but it's one I've not read about anywhere else, so I hope I'm safe. Would be reassuring to hear from Silver, though :-)

[J Reggie]

Gg SpaceAnemone. There goes my perfect lylo record of 0-0. At least I won't be even more disappointed later on 

But I should have noticed your play was similar to my first scum game.

[pacovf]

Nah, you've won already, don't worry. You got us all fooled until the very end, you couldn't have played it any better.

[SpaceAnemone]

But I should have noticed your play was similar to my first scum game.

I should have noticed the difference in how engaged you were with this game vs your recent scum-game in Ghibli, and realised that meant you were probably a different alignment over there -- I was town-reading you all the way. Similarly, I was worried you'd notice when I'd been more active here than there and scumread me for it. Being scum is fun!!

[SpaceAnemone]

Nah, you've won already, don't worry. You got us all fooled until the very end, you couldn't have played it any better.

You were the scariest thing about this game, because you seemed to be playing perfectly as town! It was so hard to find any scummy stuff to say about you :-P When Silver posts up all the QTs, you'll see that I've been wanting you out of the picture since D1, because I didn't think we could beat you.

Anyway, it's almost 1am here, so I should get to bed. Please don't let me wake up dead after all!! :-)

[silverspawn]

Final Vote Count Day 4

pacovf (2): J Reggie, SpaceAnemone

Not Voting (1): pacovf

With 3 alive, it took 2 to lynch. Thread is locked.

[silverspawn]

There were several sheets of paper lying on the desk which SPJ had left behind. On the bottom right, he had written T I M E L O O P S where every letter had been crossed out individually. Other parts were transcriptions of the talks he had had, where certain parts had been highlighted.

A A A G N M M R

half of Pinks in it

feel a bit uncomfortable in such an evil place

But no-one saw the darkness seeping in from the outside before it tore the sheet into pieces. A thousand black dots rose from its center, swirling around like a swarm of Locusts before they went on to swallow the room. A similar fate must have hit SJ who never returned to the room. Sometimes, the only flaw was not to do the extraordinary.

[silverspawn]

pacovf has been lynched. He was a Vanilla Townie and the friendly neighbor.

J Reggie, a Vanilla Townie and link to Rainbow Dash has been endgamed.

The educational system, pingpongsam the Mafia Goon and Evil Teacher, and SpaceAnemone the Roleblocker and Evil School... WIN!

[pingpongsam]

Great job, SA! Sorry about the slip, I think we could have gone flawless or at least bussed me to some great effect. Pacov was formidable and he had your number in the end. It was great partnering with you hope to again sometime.

[silverspawn]

Speccy QT
Mafia QT
Mod QT

SpaceAnemone is the MVP!

[pacovf]

You played well too, PPS! Some of your later posts before the slip were starting to weaken my scumread on you...

[J Reggie]

Woah, I missed in the setup where it says the scum team gets to know which PRs there are. That changes things, though not so that I would've won.

[pacovf]

The mafia QT was a lot of fun to read. I missed that scum knew the setup too, but it wouldn't have helped much, I think.

@speccy: Ehrmagerd I DID push PPS super hard D1 people what the hell are you on. I agree my AtE was scummy, but last week was insane on a personal level and it got to me.

[pacovf]

Oh, I asked for a QT, in case anyone is interested. It's a bit more sparse than last time, but, at the risk of repeating myself, I've been busy...

https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/8PZ6KLHWNPb

[pingpongsam]

I liked reading Paco's QT. The scum QT was pretty good I thought. I don't recall ever putting that much effort into deciding the night actions. Usually they're pretty clear cut. Us busting the cop with the NK was the real coup de grace; I'd attribute that decision to SA.

[LaLight]

when PPS told in Speccy, that his partner will get MVP in any case, I knewit's SA. Perfect game, Space! I even feel glad for scum to win in this case

[silverspawn]

I'd have made a poll if SA had been lynched here. As is it seemed redundant.

[ashersky]

Also, ash... Third time you do silly things because you are 120% convinced I am scum, even though I am town. Please keep it in mind next time we play.

If you weren't so scummy, it wouldn't happen.

[pacovf]

He he sure, now you know I am scummy even when I am town then :p

[McGarnacle]

Wow, I'll never trust SA again  .

[pingpongsam]

Wow, I'll never trust SA again  .

Trust no one.

[pingpongsam]

Wow, I'll never trust SA again  .

Trust no one.

Which is why I far prefer being scum over town.

[SpaceAnemone]

when PPS told in Speccy, that his partner will get MVP in any case, I knewit's SA. Perfect game, Space! I even feel glad for scum to win in this case

Aww, thanks :-) Sorry I murdered you!!