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[Qvist]

I'm surprised by your vote on me, yuma. For me it's obvious that the scum pair is Voltgloss / ashersky as Voltgloss didn't want to quickhammer his partner and all their interactions on the last day.
But either way, I assume we can't get to a point where we determine this day's lynch without Captain_Frisk participating in this vote. So, CF, I'm really interested in your opinion. Who do you think is most likely the scum pair currently?

[yuma]

I'm surprised by your vote on me, yuma. For me it's obvious that the scum pair is Voltgloss / ashersky as Voltgloss didn't want to quickhammer his partner and all their interactions on the last day.
But either way, I assume we can't get to a point where we determine this day's lynch without Captain_Frisk participating in this vote. So, CF, I'm really interested in your opinion. Who do you think is most likely the scum pair currently?

My vote on you is explained thusly.

I know that ashersky is scum. I 100% know this. I also 100% know that jot was scum. Again I 100% know this (we all do). I also know 100% that Volt, jot and ash voted for me Day 2.

I also know (actually is this something the mod would be kind enough to clarify... that is when exactly did Volt officially join the game? Was it after the start of day 2?) that Volt joined into this game mid-day 2 meaning that he was not involved in any quicktopic discussion during the night if he was scum. As such, I have a very hard time believing that scum would line up 1-2-3 on me the way they did.

I also have a hard time believing that scum!volt would have pushed a case against 2 townie players (Axxle and town!qvist) the way he did yesterday. This isn't great play because it result in two townies becoming against you.

These two examples lead me to believe that volt is town, but that you are not. This also conforms to the scum read that I had on you throughout Day 2 and Day 3. I am pretty confident in my reads (not TheMunch confident, but confident nonetheless.

As for my switching to you over ashersky... well let's say we do lynch ashersky.... that would leave qvist, yuma, cfrisk and volt alive so 4. Scum would kill frisk in this situation. And I would be forced to make a decision between you and volt again. So instead I am making that decision now and will be able to be around tomorrow to help convince frisk to vote ashersky tomorrow.

[Insomniac]

Volt did join after the start of day 2 that is clarified by looking for the post where I officially subbed him in. However he subbed in for Grujah

[ashersky]

Asher / Yuma.  Obviously you both think the other is scum.  Tell me why you think the other is lying.

Frisk, I know Yuma is lying because the setup doesn't allow for yuma to be anything but mafia.  There are five players alive right now.  There are:

2 mafia
2 VT
1 Cop

Now, one of the cop claims is actually the cop, the other is scum.  That leaves:

1 mafia
2 VT

You are VT, confirmed by the real cop.  I am VT, confirmed to me by my PM.  That leaves:

1 mafia

That mafia is yuma.  That is how I've come to my conclusion.  Yuma has to be the fake cop's scumpartner.

Now, given I am 100% sure of yuma, but not 100% sure of Voltgloss, there could be an argument for lynching him first.  In fact, yuma made it when he thought to vote me.  Yuma (and I, as noted when yuma said I ninja'ed him) felt this was not as good a plan.

Here are the two ways to go today, and what I see coming out of it:

Town lynches yuma.  No way scum!cop kills the other other cop claim, because that kills his fake claim.  So one of Frisk or I dies at night, and the survivor has to make the choice between the two cops to win or lose for town.

Town lynches the fake cop.  Yuma will kill the real cop to ensure there's no further information given, and then it's me and yuma trying to convince Frisk to choose the right person.

So in both cases, we end up with the fate of town in one person's hands.  I think in actuality, both options are equally fine as far as ensuring the town win.

[yuma]

^ash just basically repeated everything I have already said, but subbed his name in for mine and vice versa...

[ashersky]

^ash just basically repeated everything I have already said, but subbed his name in for mine and vice versa...

To be fair, we've been doing that for awhile now, given you are fake claiming to be in my exact position.

I wanted to point out a few things, which I can go dig quotes up for if required.  I used the print function to read back with an eye toward yuma, and wanted to remind folks about his Galzria quickhammer and the talk surrounding it.  I also noticed just how long his wagon lasted without ever lynching which I think is definitely a scum trait.  While under pressure for the quickhammer, yuma admitted he would have hammered even had he read the PR claim.  He also said he could self-hammer as scum to end discussion, which is a very wifom scum thing to say.  Also Volt started the yuma wagon, a great spot for bussing.

Look at the Galz wagon again: CF (town), eHunt (town), Galz (SK), Joth (mafia), Munch (town), Yuma -- Galz gave the mafia the perfect excuse for hammering here--and I think it's likely there were two mafia on this wagon.  Yuma is the second.

I think I might actually prefer the yuma lynch first, and leave it up to Frisk to figure out which cop is lying (I think VG).  It's so clear to me, not just from the fact that he's lying about being a VT since there aren't any more VT slots left, but from his actions in the game.

vote: yuma but if Frisk believes strongly we need to get the cop first, will listen.

[yuma]

^ash just basically repeated everything I have already said, but subbed his name in for mine and vice versa...

To be fair, we've been doing that for awhile now, given you are fake claiming to be in my exact position.

I wanted to point out a few things, which I can go dig quotes up for if required.  I used the print function to read back with an eye toward yuma, and wanted to remind folks about his Galzria quickhammer and the talk surrounding it.  I also noticed just how long his wagon lasted without ever lynching which I think is definitely a scum trait.  While under pressure for the quickhammer, yuma admitted he would have hammered even had he read the PR claim.  He also said he could self-hammer as scum to end discussion, which is a very wifom scum thing to say.  Also Volt started the yuma wagon, a great spot for bussing.

Look at the Galz wagon again: CF (town), eHunt (town), Galz (SK), Joth (mafia), Munch (town), Yuma -- Galz gave the mafia the perfect excuse for hammering here--and I think it's likely there were two mafia on this wagon.  Yuma is the second.

I think I might actually prefer the yuma lynch first, and leave it up to Frisk to figure out which cop is lying (I think VG).  It's so clear to me, not just from the fact that he's lying about being a VT since there aren't any more VT slots left, but from his actions in the game.

vote: yuma but if Frisk believes strongly we need to get the cop first, will listen.

just to be clear... you think that scum left me at L-1, with both jot and volt bussing scum!yuma for most of day 2 at a time when bussing was not a good option--losing the PR advantage?

You are obviously scrambling. You and Qvist are scum. Frisk will realize this after his V/LA.

[ashersky]

^ash just basically repeated everything I have already said, but subbed his name in for mine and vice versa...

To be fair, we've been doing that for awhile now, given you are fake claiming to be in my exact position.

I wanted to point out a few things, which I can go dig quotes up for if required.  I used the print function to read back with an eye toward yuma, and wanted to remind folks about his Galzria quickhammer and the talk surrounding it.  I also noticed just how long his wagon lasted without ever lynching which I think is definitely a scum trait.  While under pressure for the quickhammer, yuma admitted he would have hammered even had he read the PR claim.  He also said he could self-hammer as scum to end discussion, which is a very wifom scum thing to say.  Also Volt started the yuma wagon, a great spot for bussing.

Look at the Galz wagon again: CF (town), eHunt (town), Galz (SK), Joth (mafia), Munch (town), Yuma -- Galz gave the mafia the perfect excuse for hammering here--and I think it's likely there were two mafia on this wagon.  Yuma is the second.

I think I might actually prefer the yuma lynch first, and leave it up to Frisk to figure out which cop is lying (I think VG).  It's so clear to me, not just from the fact that he's lying about being a VT since there aren't any more VT slots left, but from his actions in the game.

vote: yuma but if Frisk believes strongly we need to get the cop first, will listen.

just to be clear... you think that scum left me at L-1, with both jot and volt bussing scum!yuma for most of day 2 at a time when bussing was not a good option--losing the PR advantage?

You are obviously scrambling. You and Qvist are scum. Frisk will realize this after his V/LA.

I do, in fact.  As you yourself have pointed out, scum didn't want to lose credibility by unvoting.  You actually made the arguments that your wagon was full of scum.  You may also recall that I was the one to put you at L-1 (more than once) and kept unvoting because I wasn't sure and didn't want to make a mistake.

So I think you and VG are scum.  If you are Qvist are the team, though, Qvist deserves some sort of award.

[yuma]

it was full of scum! you and jot!

[yuma]

Oh... and one other major argument that I somehow completely forgot about...

We have lynched one scum in this game already. I was on that lynch. You weren't. You voted me and Frisk all day long Day 2 (both confirmed townies). You never even voted for joth all game long

You also listed jot nice squarely in the middle in your "who to lynch list"

1. Frisk
2. Yuma
3. Axxle
4. TheMunch
5. Joth
6. Qvist
7. Eevee
8. Voltgloss
9. Ashersky

Also of interest are some of the comments jot made about you, when he does talk about you (which isn't often).

I don't have a strong opinion about ashersky. I never seem to.

Nothing here...

Yeah, we really haven't seen ashersky in a long time.

Finally mentions you, but in such a meaningless way...

I think an ashersky lurker lynch would acceptable to me in and of itself. But the fact that it's been pushed heavily by my top two scumspects, yuma and Eevee, means that it's either a bad idea or I've been way off-base all along. (Which I admit is more than possible).

Here he says you could be a good lynch... but it can't be trustworthy because it is being pushed by two people he has scum reads on=he knows to be town...

Well, my lunch break is over and I need to get off F.DS so I can write this stupid story. (Last day before Thanksgiving break = complete lack of work ethic).

If a yuma hammer isn't dropped when I get back (and I highly doubt it will be, for whatever reason) then I'll change my vote next time I come online. Either to Eevee or ashersky.

This is interesting because of what comes next....

as promised, Vote: Eevee

Thanks for making the choice between you and ashersky really easy.

inb4 someone asks for my case on Eevee and/or accuses me of OMGUS: He's almost single-handedly responsible for stopping the yuma wagon in its tracks and he generally seems WAY too sure yuma is town with no evidence, and in spite of evidence to the contrary. I have been expressing a scum read on him all along.

He just made a long case on me with virtually no content, basically just reposting yuma's suspicion list and adding "because he's scum" to the end of everything I do. Pretty lazy.

He votes for eevee over ash... I wonder why?

1. Eevee
2. Yuma
3. Ashersky
4. Axxle
5. Qvist
6. Frisk
7. Voltgloss
8. Jotheonah

jot puts you in a nice high on suspicion list but not high enough to vote

vote: ashersky works for me.

and then he finally votes for you once both the wagons on me and eevee have died off and he has realized that he can't get another wagon started anywhere else.

Conclusion: You are jot are scummates. You never voted for him, he only voted for you in a last ditch attempt after not getting his wagons on me and eevee (two townies) to go through. I voted for jot. You didn't.

How you going to spin this one ash?

[ashersky]

Conclusion: You are jot are scummates. You never voted for him, he only voted for you in a last ditch attempt after not getting his wagons on me and eevee (two townies) to go through. I voted for jot. You didn't.

How you going to spin this one ash?

You don't honestly believe this argument, do you?  What sort of scum team purposefully DOESN'T vote for each other?  The type that loves to draw suspicion to each other?

You are basically accusing me and jot of being the worst scum pair ever, to try and clear yourself.  Let's look at your interaction with your scumbuddy.

[yuma]

Conclusion: You are jot are scummates. You never voted for him, he only voted for you in a last ditch attempt after not getting his wagons on me and eevee (two townies) to go through. I voted for jot. You didn't.

How you going to spin this one ash?

You don't honestly believe this argument, do you?  What sort of scum team purposefully DOESN'T vote for each other?  The type that loves to draw suspicion to each other?

You are basically accusing me and jot of being the worst scum pair ever, to try and clear yourself.  Let's look at your interaction with your scumbuddy.

In this scenario absolutely yes. scum did not want to buss today at all. Once they did they would have lost the advantage over the power roles via the switches... this was detailed pretty early on day 2 and was universally received by the town.

And yes I am sure, because I am 100% sure you are scum. So it is obviously true.

[ashersky]

Joth's interactions with yuma:

D1 -- Zero.  Literally, no mentions, responses, replies.  Zilch.

D2 -- Here's where we see it.  Joth says he's awaiting your defense to Volt's case, then:

My only explanation, w/o reading any of the subsequent posts after yours, is to say that I voted immediately after reading Galz's selfvote. I didn't know he had claimed, I didn't know he was at L-1.

So it sounds like you are saying:

1)  At the time you voted Galzria - 4:17:39 p.m. forum time, about 25 minutes after Galz's self-vote - you had read Galzria's self-vote but had NOT read any of the 21 posts between that self-vote and your hammer.

2)  66 seconds later, at 4:18:45 p.m. forum time, you had read those intervening 21 posts and realized your vote was the hammer.

This is not plausible.

Here's what's plausible:  scum!yuma concluded Galz was SK and seized the chance to hammer him before Galz had a chance to withdraw his self-vote.

That is why I referenced the derphammer in my next post. But I maintain that it wasn't because I would have voted for Galz even if I knew all of the above. I will vote selfvotes.

You will vote selfvotes even when doing so is the hammer and the selfvoter has claimed having a power role but has not yet identified said role?

I don't think town!yuma would do that.  scum!yuma would, given sufficient reasons.  I think you thought those reasons existed here.

Emphasis mine. This is as good as catching yuma in a lie, for me. I'm happy to sheep Volt here and vote: yuma.

Boom, busses right away.  But then...

Here's joth waffling on his scumpartner to get cred:

I don't know how I feel about this situation. At this point, IF yuma is town, scum is scared to hammer because they'll be obvscum tomorrow (or they're all on the wagon).

If yuma is scum though, town players might be scared to hammer for the same reason. Are we learning anything right now, or are we just talking ourselves out of a good lynch?

More bussing...

jot you still have not answered me regarding this:

PPE: Jot, you are completely ignoring my response to that post... If you look you can see that I skimmed the posts for a vote count... that is very easily gone in 66 seconds.

your vote was based on "as good as catching me in a lie." I have offered the true explanation of what happened? Do you think I am still lying? Or are you voting me for other reasons? If other reasons, because I can't see you voting for me when I have a good explanation for this supposed lie, why haven't you explained them?

I don't like that you hammered accidentally. If you're town and you're signing on and voting, and it's not close to a deadline, you should have read the whole thread.

Your explanation is believable, but I don't believe it. Volt's narrative of the whole thing, that you are scum who decided outing a power role/SK was worth the risk of derphammering, is still the most believable narrative to me.

And now walking it back to save his team...

I'm not in love with the yuma lynch, and if you have another case to present, by all means. So far, Volt's case on yuma is the only case I've seen that's based on hard evidence. That seems preferable to distrusting wagons just for being wagons or voting based on a gut read you refuse to explain. I am not loving this playstyle from you, Eevee.

And then this is great.  Joth continued to push an Eevee lynch during the day to get the heat off of him (and his partner yuma).  To continue to grab cred for it, he partners Eevee with yuma:

I sort of dislike Eevee's web of gut FOSes.

I mean, I get gut reads, sure. But with only one mislynch and a credible evidence-based case, does it make sense to trust them right now? And why is Eevee so desperate to derail the yuma wagon, and yet unable to produce cases on any of his reads? Until I see some evidence otherwise, Occam's Razor seems to point to yuma-Eevee. Right now I'm voting yuma of the two, because if he's right, a town flip will more or less clear Eevee for me.

(No idea who the third partner on that scum team would be. Maybe Axxle?)

And then scum!joth says:

Lets play a game:

@ everyone in this list.
{joth, axxle, eevee, ashersky, voltgloss}

Provide your top 2 scum reads and the 1 person you would bet the game is town inside that set of 5 people.

Still catching up, but SCUM: Eevee, ashersky
Town: Voltgloss

Dropping yuma from the equation completely, and listing his other partner in the safe zone.

I'll point out in the list you quoted from him that you and VG sit at second from both ends, both scummy seats.  Funnily enough, he slid you back into the second scum slot when he was under the most pressure, even though he had dropped you from his list to frame a townie when he gave the top 2 read I quote above.



The way joth interactions with and about you is exactly how smart scum would play it, and you both are smart scum.  I know joth is scum 100%, and I know you are 100%.

[yuma]

Your last quote is an incorrect interpretation, I am not listed because I was not listed in Frisk's scummy 5. But that is a mute point because frankly, the rest of the above post isn't very good anyways.

[ashersky]

Your last quote is an incorrect interpretation, I am not listed because I was not listed in Frisk's scummy 5. But that is a mute point because frankly, the rest of the above post isn't very good anyways.

"Isn't very good anyways": The greatest argument ever made in a mafia game ever!

Clearly you've just given up at this point, caught.

[ashersky]

On a side note, where is everyone else?  I know Frisk is V/LA-ish, but VG and Qvist?  They've both given up in trying to prove their innocence?

And what's the vote count?

[yuma]

yeah I have given up trying to argue with scum. There isn't a point in trying to argue with you. I laid out my case for Frisk and the others. Obviously I can't convince you. If they have questions they can ask me. As for you, we are done talking.

[ashersky]

yeah I have given up trying to argue with scum. There isn't a point in trying to argue with you. I laid out my case for Frisk and the others. Obviously I can't convince you. If they have questions they can ask me. As for you, we are done talking.

Enjoy trying to lurk yourself to survival, scum.  Just one question, which switcher are you?

[yuma]

yeah I have given up trying to argue with scum. There isn't a point in trying to argue with you. I laid out my case for Frisk and the others. Obviously I can't convince you. If they have questions they can ask me. As for you, we are done talking.

Enjoy trying to lurk yourself to survival, scum.  Just one question, which switcher are you?

troll

[Voltgloss]

I know Frisk is V/LA-ish, but VG and Qvist?  They've both given up in trying to prove their innocence?

Frisk asked a question, I responded, and I'm waiting to hear further from him.  He's very much VLA - hasn't been posting basically anywhere this week - but we have time, and I am sure he will have plenty to say when he has the opportunity.

[Qvist]

I'm V/LA from Wednesday until Friday.

I'm currently in the hotel, so I check some threads.
But I don't have a lot to say. I'm still interested in CF's opinion and until then I'll wait with any comments.

[Insomniac]

Vote Count 4-1

Qvist (2) - Voltgloss, yuma
Ashersky (1) - Qvist
yuma (1) - ashersky

Not Voting (1) - Captain_Frisk

[ashersky]

All right - I'm at the hotel - I'm going to take one pass through each of my games, post what I can, and then i'm off.  This is the best I'll be able to do until Friday night.

Frisk, where are you?  Back as of Friday, per VLA thread.  We want to hear from you!

[yuma]

I was really hoping that Frisk would get to this before I leave as I am not sure if I will be around. I'll keep my vote where it is for now on Qvist, but just as a reminder I know ashersky to be scum, 100%.

If I can get online in California I will, but I make no guarantees.

[Captain_Frisk]

All right - I'm at the hotel - I'm going to take one pass through each of my games, post what I can, and then i'm off.  This is the best I'll be able to do until Friday night.

Frisk, where are you?  Back as of Friday, per VLA thread.  We want to hear from you!

Back late friday, hung out with colleagues again (unplanned).  All day gameday yesterday, late night iso tourney, and then trying to recover wife points and catch up today.  I'll get to this tomorrow.  Sorry yuma.