Dominion Strategy Forum
Miscellaneous => Forum Games => Mafia Game Threads => Topic started by: Jorbles on October 13, 2012, 12:25:22 pm
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Welcome to Mafia XIV: The Chicken Curse of the Sea Hags
Spectator thread QT available on request - please PM me and I will send you the link. Thanks!
Players Signed Up:
1. shraeye Fishing Villager killed N4
2. Robz888 Explorer lynched D1
3. Voltgloss Ambassador killed N1
4. Eevee Pearl Diver killed N3
5. yuma Sea Hag
6. Galzria Fishing Villager end gamed
7. Insomniac Fishing Villager lynched D4
8. ashersky Sea Hag lynched D2
9. Captain_Frisk Cutpure killed N2
10. Grujah Fishing Villager end gamed
11. Archetype Fishing Villager and Curser lynched D3
12. jotheonah Fishing Villager lynched D5
13. Cuzz Lookout
Vote Counts and Other Useful Links:
1.1 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4992.msg120222#msg120222) 1.2 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4992.msg120407#msg120407) 1.3 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4992.msg120806#msg120806) 1.4 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4992.msg121222#msg121222) 1.5 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4992.msg121757#msg121757) First Curse (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4992.msg121938#msg121938) 1.6 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4992.msg122060#msg122060) 1.7 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4992.msg122453#msg122453) 1.8 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4992.msg122737#msg122737) 1.9 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4992.msg122845#msg122845) 1.10 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4992.msg122882#msg122882) 1.11 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4992.msg122940#msg122940) 1.12 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4992.msg123061#msg123061) 1.13 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4992.msg123156#msg123156) 1.14 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4992.msg123187#msg123187) 1.15 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4992.msg123260#msg123260) Day 1 Lynch (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4992.msg123560#msg123560) Second Curse (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4992.msg123573#msg123573)
Day 2 Start (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4992.msg124018#msg124018) 2.1 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4992.msg124169#msg124169) 2.2 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4992.msg124515#msg124515) 2.3 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4992.msg125046#msg125046) Third Curse (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4992.msg125097#msg125097) 2.4 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4992.msg125692#msg125692) Fourth Curse (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4992.msg125821#msg125821) 2.5 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4992.msg125893#msg125893) 2.6 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4992.msg126056#msg126056) 2.7 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4992.msg126190#msg126190) Day 2 Lynch (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4992.msg126230#msg126230)
Day 3 Start (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4992.msg126952#msg126952) 3.1 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4992.msg127162#msg127162) 3.2 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4992.msg127578#msg127578) Fifth Curse (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4992.msg127642#msg127642) 3.3 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4992.msg127686#msg127686) 3.4 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4992.msg127825#msg127825) Day 3 Lynch (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4992.msg127834#msg127834)
Day 4 Start (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4992.msg128281#msg128281) 4.1 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4992.msg128546#msg128546) 4.2 and Sixth Curse (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4992.msg128906#msg128906) Day 4 Lynch (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4992.msg129445#msg129445)
Day 5 Start (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4992.msg129871#msg129871) 5.1 and Seventh Curse (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4992.msg130354#msg130354) 5.2 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4992.msg130690#msg130690) 5.3 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4992.msg131745#msg131745)
Mafia Ruleset: (REVISIONS IN BLUE)
These are lifted from Voltgloss's MXII game and whoever he lifted them from.
Game Rules:
General Gameplay and Etiquette:
1. You may not quote private Moderator-supplied information (either real or fabricated) of any kind. Paraphrasing (for role claims, etc.) or quoting from the setup description (see next post) of a role is acceptable.
2. There is to be NO personal communication outside of the forum postings unless your role PM specifically allows it. Sea Hag faction members may communicate at night and during the confirmation stage.
3. If you have a role with a Night action your choices are due to all moderators by the posted deadline (generally 48 hours from Night start during the first few Nights; later Nights may have shorter deadlines). If I do not receive your choice via PM by the posted deadline you will forfeit your actions. In case of multiple submissions, the last valid one before the deadline will be used. Sea Hag faction plays may discuss this in their QT, but must submit their actions by PM.
4. Roles with Night actions will not be able to submit an action on Night 0 (i.e. during the confirmation stage).
5. Any player with a Night action may instead submit a “No Action” PM to let the Mod know that you do not want to perform your expected action that Night phase.
6. As a general rule you should aim for one post every 48 hours, minimum, to keep the game moving.
Voting, Deadlines, and Player Death:
1. A simple majority (rounded up) of all living members must agree on one person for a lynch to occur prior to deadline.
2. Once you have reached a simple majority no further unvoting will change someone’s fate. Further votes will also be ignored.
3. Once a player is lynched the game enters twilight until I post a death scene; all players including the one who was lynched may continue to post during twilight.
4. Please submit votes as: Vote: PlayerName. Votes will NOT be counted if they are not bold or do not follow this syntax! Obvious abbreviations or nicknames will be counted so long as they are unambiguous.
5. Please submit vote revocations as either Unvote: PlayerName or Unvote. Unvotes are not necessary before changing votes.
6. You may Vote: No Lynch - a simple majority of these vote types are required to send the game to Night phase without a lynch.
7. Once you are killed (either via lynch or night kill) you may no longer post. This means that you do not even get a “Bah” post. The dead in this game are silent.
8. Do not edit or delete posts. We don't want some players having more information than others. If you want to clarify posts, feel free to double post.
9. This game will have 6 day Day deadlines and 1 day Night deadlines. Please take note of this as it is much shorter than usual. This is necessary to keep some of the new mechanics interesting and effective.
Miscellaneous/Mechanics:
1. Bold, blue text is reserved for the Mod. No invisible/small text is allowed, nor is cryptography.
2. If you have an issue/problem with the game, please PM the Mod privately. Do not post issues/complaints in the game thread.
3. The Mod may make mistakes - please point out any mistakes gently. Mistakes will be corrected where possible, but sometimes mistakes are made that cannot be reversed. These will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. Please bold all requests to the Mod so that they don’t get missed.
5. Prods of missing players will be issued upon request after 48 hours of no activity. Moderators will not prod without being requested by players so please police yourselves. A prodded player has 48 hours to respond or risks replacement. A player who has been prodded twice is subject to replacement without further notice.
6. Rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, up to and including a Modkill.
7. If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period please post a notice to that effect in the thread. Treat this game as a commitment. Be considerate – don’t leave us hanging.
The Golden Rule:
Please remember that this is a game and your main objective is to have fun! Be considerate of each other, don’t get personal, and enjoy the game.
Helpful Links:
- Main Wiki Page (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page)
- Newbie Guide (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Newbie_Guide)
- Frequently Asked Questions (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=FAQ)
- Commonly Used Abbreviations (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Commonly_used_abbreviations)
- Mafia Theory (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Theory)
TO CLARIFY, I AM NOT A MODERATOR OF F.DS IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM. IN THE CONTEXT OF THIS GAME, I AM MODERATING THAT THE RULES ARE FOLLOWED AND HIDDEN ACTIONS ARE COMPLETED PROPERLY.
NEW MECHANICS AND ROLES IN NEXT 2 POSTS
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New Mechanics:
All players must read this section. It is a completely new mechanic and you need to know it.
Cursing:
Sea Hags have the ability to Curse and may target any player with this Curse including themselves. Deadlines for cursing will be 3 real life days apart, always taking place at noon PST. Sea Hags may submit their factional Curse at any time by PMing the mods to have it go through at the next deadline. If multiple Sea Hags attempt to Curse at the same deadline only the first received Curse will be used. The thread will occasionally lock during the day to resolve day actions. The Sea Hag faction will be able to Curse a player once per day/night cycle with the ability resetting at the beginning of each day. In addition to the Sea Hag Curse there will be a second Curse in the game from the Curser who will always Curse a player randomly at deadline.
Example: Lylo is about to start and Alice, Bob, Carol, David, and Ellen are still alive. Alice is a Fishing Villager, Bob is a Fishing Villager, Carol is a Sea Hag, David is a Sea Hag, and Ellen is the town Ambassador. In addition to this Alice is secretly the Curser. In the previous night Carol and David killed Fred, and Ellen used her Ambassador power on Alice. At the start of the day it is one day to Curse deadline and 6 days to lynch deadline and Bob is currently the only Cursed player, having been randomly Cursed by Alice at the previous Curse deadline. As debating goes on, David decides that Alice is clearly the smartest of the players in the game and submits the factional Curse by PM to the Mod before Curse deadline. Everyone debates, but can't come to a conclusion on who to lynch.
At Curse deadline Alice's power triggers and randomly picks Carol to be Cursed. David's use of the factional Curse goes through, but Alice is protected by Ellen's power. David and Carol become Cursed. Bob stops being a chicken and for the next three real life days Carol and David will have to try and convince town not to lynch one of them while only saying the word "Chicken."
In 3 more days, the next Curse deadline is coming up and Carol and David's Curse will be removed. Even as chickens, since they are Sea Hag Faction, they could still use their abilities to Curse anyone, but they've already used their factional Curse so they can't Curse anyone else in the game this day. Alice's ability will trigger again and randomly Curse one of the players still in the game other than herself.
The effects of being Cursed:
Players who are Cursed have been turned into a chicken. They may only speak by posting in a style that would fit into Doug Z.'s presentation "Chicken Chicken Chicken: Chicken Chicken" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yL_-1d9OSdk).
Note this means that they can type "Chicken chicken chicken, chicken? Chicken chicken." but not "*flaps around like a chicken* bawk bawk cock a doodle doo." What this loosely means is that if you are typing a word, the word MUST BE chicken. Players may come up with codes within these restrictions, (for example, "Chicken once for yes, and twice for no"), but no elaborate cryptography involving capitalizing certain letters, weird use of punctuation or something similar. Cursed players may not quote or use links. The one exception to the chicken curse is that Cursed players are allowed to vote as chickens. They may do this by typing Chicken vote: <NAME OF PERSON IN GAME>. You cannot Chicken Vote for players who are not in the game. In flavour terms a player who is Chicken Voting is a chicken staring angrily at whoever they voted for. They may also Chicken Unvote or Chicken Vote: No lynch.
Players who are Cursed will have their Curse Trashed at the time of the next Curse deadline, removing the effects of the Curse. It is the duty of all players to know whether or not they have been Cursed or not. Curses will be posted in BOLD BLUE LETTERS so they should be very noticeable. If a player who has been Cursed speaks in a way that is not in keeping with these rules than they are a Talking Chicken. Talking Chickens are an abomination and must be punished. The punishment will be determined by the mod, but could result in Talking Chickens being modkilled. Mod vote counts will include information on who is currently Cursed. If you're not sure go back to the most recent vote count or thread lock.
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Role breakdowns:
This game is for 13 players, however I have alternate setups for 11 and 9 if 13 players cannot be found.
Sea Hag:
2 Sea Hags (special role, see below)
1 Lookout (Role Cop)
Fishing Village:
1 One-shot Pearl Diver (Commuter)
1 Ambassador (special role, see below)
1 Explorer (Cop)
1 One-shot Cutpurse (Day Vigilante who can only kill Cursed players)
6 Fishing Villagers (Vanilla Town)
(1 of these roles will not know it, but be the Curser (special role, see below))
Role PMs:
Sea Hag
Alignment: Sea Hag
You ugly witch, [Player Name]. You are a Sea Hag, along with your partners, [Player Name], and [Player Name]. You have been terrorizing this town by turning the villagers into chickens so you can eat them.
Abilities:
Factional communication: At night and before the game you may talk with your partners here [QuickTopic link].
Factional kill: Each night, you may perform the factional kill.
Curse: Once per Day, you may submit the Factional Sea Hag Curse to Curse any player in the game except yourself. The Curse will go into effect at the Curse Deadline. Note there is only one Factional curse per game Day so you may want to coordinate with your partners in the QT how you will use it. If multiple Curse requests are received the first one sent will be used.
Win condition:
You win when all members of the town have been eliminated or nothing can prevent this from occurring.
Lookout
Alignment: Sea Hag
You gutless lackey, [Player Name]. You are a henchman of the Sea Hags, along with your partners, [Player Name], and [Player Name]. You have been helping the Sea Hags terrorize this town just so you can satisfy your need for hot wings!
Abilities:
Factional communication: At night and before the game you may talk with your partner here [QuickTopic link].
Look: Each night, you may investigate one player in the game by PMing the mod. You will get results back with the full name of their role, including whether or not they have a Secret role.
Factional Kill: Each night, you may perform the factional kill.
Win condition:
You win when all members of the town have been eliminated or nothing can prevent this from occurring.
Ambassador
Alignment: Fishing Village
Abilities:
Ambassadoring: Each night, you may protect a player other than yourself from the Sea Hag Curse. If any player should target that player to be Cursed during the day the Curse will be reflected back onto them. Why would you Curse when there's an Ambassador on the board?
Win condition:
You win when all Sea Hag aligned players are dead and there is at least one Fishing Village aligned player alive.
Explorer
Alignment: Fishing Village
Abilities:
Navigate: Each night, you may investigate one player in the game by PMing the mod. You will get results back that are either Sea Hag or Not Sea Hag. Note: if you investigate the Lookout you will get the result Sea Hag.
Win condition:
You win when all Sea Hag aligned players are dead and there is at least one Fishing Village aligned player alive.
One-shot Pearl Diver
Alignment: Fishing Village
Abilities:
Pearl Diving: Once at night, you may flee the town to go diving for pearls. Everyone knows the best time to do this is at night. If you do, you'll be immune to all NKs for that night. However, if you are Cursed when night falls you cannot use this ability. Chickens are terrible divers.
Win condition:
You win when all Sea Hag aligned players are dead and there is at least one Fishing Village aligned player alive.
One-shot Cutpurse
Alignment: Fishing Village
Abilities:
Chicken Thief: Once during the day, you may target a Cursed player for a day kill by PMing the mod to whisk them out of people’s vision and quickly butcher them. You may not use this ability if you are Cursed. You are not a cannibal.
Win condition:
You win when all Sea Hag aligned players are dead and there is at least one Fishing Village aligned player alive.
Fishing Village
Alignment: Fishing Village
Abilities:
You have no abilities, except for your vote. Get voting!
Win condition:
You win when all Sea Hag aligned players are dead and there is at least one Fishing Village aligned player alive.
Curser
Alignment: Fishing Village
Abilities:
One Fishing Village player other than the Ambassador will be secretly assigned the role of Curser in addition to their other role. At Curse Deadline this player will Curse a player other than themselves randomly. Any player who is not the Curser can be selected by this Curse. The Curser will always Curse at Curse Deadline unless they are dead. They will not know they are the Curser.
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/chicken
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This seems interesting, looking forward to it.
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/chicken
I think you mean /chickIN
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/chicken
I think you mean /chickIN
I am /in if this game starts before Grujah's whose I will then be /out. If Grujah's starts before then I'll be /out of this one... unless I am already dead in Grujah's before this one starts, then I'll be /in....
I'll keep you posted.
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I'm so confused. But I need Mafia. /in
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I need to say something so that this thread pops out to my eyes scanning the unread posts.
Something.
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Cool, glad I'm /in.
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I'm so confused. But I need Mafia. /in
i think it's actually more complex to explain in a rulesy way than it will be to play. Basically every three days someone can turn into a chicken. Chickens can only say "chicken." Glad to have you!
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I'll go read the rules later, but /in
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Damn this looks fun. I am not signing up at the moment. We'll see. If I am not in XI, then hopefully I will be able to sign up.
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/in
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13 players? In/
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Wont this mechanic mean that at least 2 people just sit out per day?
So two people are effectively turned into just reading the whole of day 1, 2'and onwards?
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Can chickens quote?
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Can chickens quote?
Nope
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Wont this mechanic mean that at least 2 people just sit out per day?
So two people are effectively turned into just reading the whole of day 1, 2'and onwards?
I'm not quite clear on exactly when Curses trigger, but each time someone new gets Cursed, the previous Curse wears off. I think.
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Wont this mechanic mean that at least 2 people just sit out per day?
So two people are effectively turned into just reading the whole of day 1, 2'and onwards?
Well Sea Hags can only Curse someone for 3 of the 6 days so unless town rushes into a lynch someone hit by the Sea Hag's Curse will still be able to talk for half of the day. After the first 3 days of play pass the Curser will always Curse someone, so there will always be someone Cursed. The Cursed players are not just reading though. They can still vote to communicate, and though their ability to communicate will be severely limited the onus will be on unCursed players to try and work out their motivations. Asking them questions and getting them to confirm, that sort of thing.
Also Voltgloss is correct. New Curses triggering removes previous Curses.
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I think about /ining just because of chickens.
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I think about /ining just because of chickens.
I consider that a tentative /in. Also for everyone who was feeling confused about the Cursing mechanics I've put in an Example to help clear it up in the mechanics section.
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Totally /in
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/in. Possibly a mistake. By the way, I got a job offer, for those of you following along. It will probably reduce my mafia time.
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/in. Possibly a mistake. By the way, I got a job offer, for those of you following along. It will probably reduce my mafia time.
huzzah! where at?
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It's a health/tech news company in Boston. Reporting, so I'm happy.
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When will this start? If after Robz's mafia, I'll play. If you make me scum. :)
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Morgrim is only allowed to be scum if I can be his buddy.
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When will this start? If after Robz's mafia, I'll play. If you make me scum. :)
It's going to start once we have enough people in and the majority of players want it to start. I'm not sure what works for everyone (and I assume different players have different needs). What's general consensus?
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When will this start? If after Robz's mafia, I'll play. If you make me scum. :)
It's going to start once we have enough people in and the majority of players want it to start. I'm not sure what works for everyone (and I assume different players have different needs). What's general consensus?
Asap.
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Confirming /in, with a reminder that I will be on LA from Wednesday to Friday of this week (anticipated).
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After M12 finishes.
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Come on - that's potentially 2 weeks away!
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Rules question: Is the secret "Curser" role revealed upon death-flip?
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When will this start? If after Robz's mafia, I'll play. If you make me scum. :)
It's going to start once we have enough people in and the majority of players want it to start. I'm not sure what works for everyone (and I assume different players have different needs). What's general consensus?
Asap.
likewise ASAP would be good, although if both Grujah's game and this game are ready to go at the same time, I would propose that this game be delayed a few days so that Day 1s do not concurrently run with each other.
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I agree, the sooner the better.
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Rules question: Is the secret "Curser" role revealed upon death-flip?
Yes.
@everyone else:
Okay, if Morgrim confirms we can start whenever. I won't start the same time as the Hydra game though, but if it looks like that one is off to a slow start I don't mind starting now or soonish. I have heard more people say they are interested in starting than not though so I'm inclined to send role PMs sooner than later.
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Start start start start start
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Start start start start start
Don't we still need one more :(
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Neither Axxle1 or 2 are in the game, so I think we're fine.
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Alright due to the demands of mafia junkies I will start as soon as we have all players confirmed. I am considering Grujah and Morgrim unconfirmed at this point. If they are \out we'll need to wait for more players.
@Grujah and Morgrim, don't feel like you have to commit if it'll over extend you. We can wait for other players to join if you are busy.
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Alright due to the demands of mafia junkies I will start as soon as we have all players confirmed. I am considering Grujah and Morgrim unconfirmed at this point. If they are \out we'll need to wait for more players.
@Grujah and Morgrim, don't feel like you have to commit if it'll over extend you. We can wait for other players to join if you are busy.
you can just confirm me as being in officially.
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Alright due to the demands of mafia junkies I will start as soon as we have all players confirmed. I am considering Grujah and Morgrim unconfirmed at this point. If they are \out we'll need to wait for more players.
@Grujah and Morgrim, don't feel like you have to commit if it'll over extend you. We can wait for other players to join if you are busy.
you can just confirm me as being in officially.
Ha, I already had.
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Listen, just send me my PM and we'll be even.
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Listen, just send me my PM and we'll be even.
I don't always sign up for a game
but when I do, I expect it to start immediately?
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Rules question: When people are Cursed, is the fact that they were Cursed made public (and confirmed) by the mod?
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Listen, just send me my PM and we'll be even.
I don't always sign up for a game
but when I do, I expect it to start immediately?
There's clearly a mafia shortage right now.
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Listen, just send me my PM and we'll be even.
I don't always sign up for a game
but when I do, I expect it to start immediately?
There's clearly a mafia shortage right now.
I can't start Switch or ZM3 they need more players. so this seems like the best candidate.
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The whole goal here is to get rolling starts so that we don't have these lulls. Now we're sitting with no normal games during day, and 3 games ready to start. They'll all start and we'll have day 1 overload again.
we should have started the next game a week ago.
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The whole goal here is to get rolling starts so that we don't have these lulls. Now we're sitting with no normal games during day, and 3 games ready to start. They'll all start and we'll have day 1 overload again.
we should have started the next game a week ago.
Well you won't have day 1 overload mine won't start if there are 2 other healthy games running.
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Rules question: When people are Cursed, is the fact that they were Cursed made public (and confirmed) by the mod?
Yes, it will always be announced to everyone by the mod.
Curses will be posted in BOLD BLUE LETTERS so they should be very noticeable. ... Mod vote counts will include information on who is currently Cursed. If you're not sure go back to the most recent vote count or thread lock
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Listen, just send me my PM and we'll be even.
Does anyone else get the urge to keep sending Frisk random PMs so he things he has got his Role?
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Listen, just send me my PM and we'll be even.
Does anyone else get the urge to keep sending Frisk random PMs so he things he has got his Role?
Listen, i'm hooked on flavor. That would probably be ok.
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Listen, just send me my PM and we'll be even.
Does anyone else get the urge to keep sending Frisk random PMs so he things he has got his Role?
Listen, i'm hooked on flavor. That would probably be ok.
Oh no, I wasnt suggesting we send you anything mafia related.
Just a PM titled Mafia Role and then inside chatting about the weather or something
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Hm.. I'm in, I might have to back out of switch thing if Ozle's game proves too tempting. :P
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Hm.. I'm in, I might have to back out of switch thing if Ozle's game proves too tempting. :P
My games about 5 down the list, don't worry about it
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Can't tell if there's still room.
/in if there is.
Vote: Robz
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Can't tell if there's still room.
/in if there is.
Vote: Robz
There is room we needed one more!
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Start start start start start
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Can't tell if there's still room.
/in if there is.
Vote: Robz
Morgrim never confirmed so you are in! PMs are on the way people. The game will start once I have time to write the intro flavour (probably tomorrow). Enjoy the pregame chat scum.
Everyone else enjoy planning how to play your roles. I am available for rules questions via PM and anyone not in the game can PM me for the spectator QT thread.
THREAD LOCKED.
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THREAD UNLOCKED.
This used to be a nice little fishing village. People would wake up, go to the boats and fish for their livelihood. The salt air relaxed everyone. A local pearl diver would find jewels of the sea and sell them to tourists. Sure there were problems, people’s wallets got stolen occasionally by some of the local colour, but the theft wouldn’t cause anyone to get killed.
Everything changed when the poultry farm opened next door. At first it seemed like such a good idea, it would bring jobs and money to the little village. The Mayor Jorbles thought it was a great idea, and was instrumental in getting the permits passed to open the farm. But there was something about that farm. No one knew who ran it and strange sounds came from it. The owners never seemed to poke their heads out of the farm and whenever people from the town walked past it all they could see were fences and chickens roaming about.
People complained to Mayor Jorbles that the owners of the farm were inhospitable, and why did this little town need chickens anyways? We’d always gotten by as fishermen.
One night at a particularly heated town meeting Jorbles had enough. He had heard his constituents and was going to complain to the farm owners. Things were going to change in this little town.
Jorbles walked off down the road and the people of the town watched him go. A short time passed, but he never returned. The townspeople muttered, but no one knew what to do.
Suddenly in a puff of smoke a roast chicken dinner appeared before the townspeople. Never one to turn down a free meal the villagers sat down to eat while they waited. It was unusual that it appeared in a puff of smoke, but who were they to look a gift chicken in the mouth? It smelled almost as good as a poached fish.
Everyone carved the bird and dug in and when nearly finished they found a note in the cavity of the chicken. Curious they opened the note to read it, in Mayor Jorbles neat hand it read:
I have been to the farm and it is no ordinary farming operation. These are not farmers at all, but a vicious coven of Sea Hags. They are turning villagers into chickens and then raising them on their farm. And worst of all it's some of our neighbours that are hags! I have to warn everyone. Uh oh, I think I’ve been spotted. I’ll just finish this paragraph and then swallow my note and I’ll run off. I should probably write down the names of the villagers in the coven before I forget. It’s …
The note ends there.
Oh no! Not only does Mayor Jorbles have terrible judgement (why did you vote for that guy?), but you’ve eaten him! And worst of all some of your fellow villagers are responsible for murdering him! Although you must give your compliments to the chef, you always thought Jorbles would have been a tough chew, but he was tender and delicious.
Day 1 start.
Not voting (13): shraeye, Robz888, Voltgloss, Eevee, yuma, Galzria, Insomniac, ashersky, Captain_Frisk, Grujah, Archetype, jotheonah, Cuzz
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Currently Cursed: No one
Curse deadline: Saturday Oct 20, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
Lynch deadline: Tuesday Oct 23, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
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Vote: Galzria
Need to keep him mafialess.
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Vote: Robz until the end of time.
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Vote: Robz until the end of time.
This is a wagon I can get behind.
Vote: Robz
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Also - by post count analysis, RobZ is lurking - so Galzria and RobZ should be on board as well.
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Vote: Galzria
He should be super excited for this game so...get in here!
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Also - by post count analysis, RobZ is lurking - so Galzria and RobZ should be on board as well.
We're headed to mfing MXII all over again. We can't let them get away with this.
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Who's up for a massclaim?
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I'm VT.
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Vote: Sea Hags
Done.
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I'm VT.
Me too!
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Captain_Frisk
10-10-2012
08:24 AM ET (US)
"If PPS early claimed VT in the next game I played with him, i'd lynch him again and be happy about it."
Btw it's FV in this game. Vote: Captain_Frisk
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I'm VT.
Vote: Captain_Frisk
obvscum, claiming vt because I said I wouldn't push a VT claimant.
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Vote: Captain_Frisk
obvscum, claiming vt because I said I wouldn't push a VT claimant.
Well now you're lying; and worse you're lying to yourself.
vote: insomniac
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Vote: Captain_Frisk
obvscum, claiming vt because I said I wouldn't push a VT claimant.
Well now you're lying; and worse you're lying to yourself.
vote: insomniac
Captain_Frisk is the exception to the rule.
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I'd like to write a big essay about how early claiming VT is pro town, but I couldn't even get one sentence down without giggling.
Unclaim
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I'd like to write a big essay about how early claiming VT is pro town, but I couldn't even get one sentence down without giggling.
Unclaim
You can't UNCLAIM! that doesn't work!
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Vote: Cuzz for switching votes when he said he'd vote RobZ till the end of time.
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I feel really dirty having my vote off of Robz for this long.
Vote: Robz
Town is 1/1 in all of my normal games in which we lynch Robz D1.
BTW how do you pronounce "Robz"? Is it one syllable or two? In my head I've always been thinking of it as "Rob-zee" but I just now realize that that's probably stupid.
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Ninja'd by Frisk.
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I'd like to write a big essay about how early claiming VT is pro town, but I couldn't even get one sentence down without giggling.
Unclaim
You can't UNCLAIM! that doesn't work!
Yeah he can, he totally just did. Buuuut, the VT claim was the only thing that was stopping me from voting for him.
Vote: Captain Frisk
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All right - should we talk about the game?
Some topics we should agree on before cursing deadline:
1. What convention should we use for chickens? Something like:
One chicken: Yes
Two chickens: No
Three chickens: Maybe / Unclear / meh
We can also use chicken voting to make it clear who you're responding to / talking about.
We should probably say that a real chicken vote should be 2 chicken votes in a row vs. using a chicken vote to indicate who you're talking / responding to.
If you want to give scum reads, I say that it would be something like
Chicken (for yes!)
Chicken Vote: RobZ
Chicken Vote: Galzria
Chicken Chicken (for no!)
Chicken Vote: Captain_Frisk
Chicken Chicken Chicken (for maybe?)
Chicken Vote: Cuzz
Chicken Unvote (for end of message)
Chicken Vote: RobZ
Chicken Vote: RobZ - to finish it with a real vote.
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I don't like it.
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I don't like it.
Vote: Shraeye for being a thief, and being anti-anti-confusion.
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I just read the intro flavor. This game is absurd.
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Next up: Roles
We have 3 strange ones in this game: Ambassador, Cutpurse and Curser
At some point we're going to end up with 2 people cursed - one randomly, and one directed by scum. I'd say that this makes them most likely to be town (the random one is > 50% chance town for sure), but then I suppose that scum may intentionally chicken eachother for the wifom.
If you're town and you become cursed, is this because you were scum targeted, or because you're the curser and you accidentally bounced off the ambassador protection? Note - day 1 this isn't possible.
Then the cutpurse - how best to use this ability? You could use it as a free lynch (say we are about to lynch a chicken - you could kill it and then continue the day) Modkilling ends the day without lynch because otherwise any townie who was about to lynch could modkill themselves - thus denying scum the ability to night kill. As long as the cutpurse is alive (and unshot) - the cursers may be unwilling to curse themselves, which points to early game cursed players as "probtown". Of course - since the chickens are more likely to be town than scum - cutpursing them is probably a bad idea.
Fos: Jorbles
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I don't like it.
What don't you like? Talking about the game? Having some kindof agreed upon chicken code before we start getting chickened?
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FoS: Frisk for actually understanding the cursing mechanics.
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FoS: Frisk for actually understanding the cursing mechanics.
I think i have a somewhat established meta of somewhat trying to understand the game setup. You might remember me from such games as MXII.
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FoS: Frisk for actually understanding the cursing mechanics.
I think i have a somewhat established meta of somewhat trying to understand the game setup. You might remember me from such games as MXII.
I shouldn't be required to reread games on this forum just to understand all these references! People can change behavior at any time and what they were or did in the past bears absolutely no weight on what they are or how they play here.
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FoS: Frisk for actually understanding the cursing mechanics.
I think i have a somewhat established meta of somewhat trying to understand the game setup. You might remember me from such games as MXII.
I shouldn't be required to reread games on this forum just to understand all these references! People can change behavior at any time and what they were or did in the past bears absolutely no weight on what they are or how they play here.
Ok. I contend that attempting to understand how the game works is not a scumtell.
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FoS: Frisk for actually understanding the cursing mechanics.
I think i have a somewhat established meta of somewhat trying to understand the game setup. You might remember me from such games as MXII.
I shouldn't be required to reread games on this forum just to understand all these references! People can change behavior at any time and what they were or did in the past bears absolutely no weight on what they are or how they play here.
Ok. I contend that attempting to understand how the game works is not a scumtell.
I wouldn't know, I'm just a VT.
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FoS: Frisk for actually understanding the cursing mechanics.
I think i have a somewhat established meta of somewhat trying to understand the game setup. You might remember me from such games as MXII.
Why are you trying to hurt me?
Also, A Fistful of Waffles totally sounds like a Troy McClure movie.
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FoS: Frisk for actually understanding the cursing mechanics.
I think i have a somewhat established meta of somewhat trying to understand the game setup. You might remember me from such games as MXII.
Why are you trying to hurt me?
Also, A Fistful of Waffles totally sounds like a Troy McClure movie.
MXII was a great game don't let your loss sour it. So many people who weren't even it it were following it too
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I don't like it.
What don't you like? Talking about the game? Having some kindof agreed upon chicken code before we start getting chickened?
You're specific method of chickens talking. It's too convoluted. Using your chicken vote only is an obvious way to give scumtells. Like Chickenvote: Robz should mean you suspect Robz, not this crazy system where I have to combine 'chicken(s)' with chickenvotes to show who I'm referring to and what I think.
If I don't chickenvote somebody, it's because I don't have a read on them. If I need to say a townread, I could make a post with only
Chickenvote: Frisk
Chicken Unvote
(or multiple town reads).
After all, its much more important to be able to show who you suspect. Our system should be easy to understand, and simple to use especially for things which will come up frequently, and hard to mess up. Your system was something I would for sure make mistakes in.
1 chicken for yes, 2 chickens for no makes sense, and I can keep that, 3 means something not yes/no. I can keep that system for use when somebody directly asks the chicken a question. If you want to refer to a specific person (maybe you want to agree with somebody--1 chicken; or disagree--2 chickens; or maybe multiple questions were asked) you could take three lines to say
Chickenvote: Cuzz
chicken
Chicken Unvote.
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I just got here. And I see we're in for a fast and furious start. With only a 6-day deadline, and only 3 days before someone gets cursed, that's probably a good thing.
One mechanics wrinkle that I haven't seen mentioned yet: the Cutpurse, by using his dayvig, also becomes an Innocent Child (i.e., mod-confirmed town). I'm thinking that's the more town-beneficial part of his power than the actual dayvig.
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Is it worth a bad dayvig on a townie to turn somebody into an IC?
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I just got here. And I see we're in for a fast and furious start. With only a 6-day deadline, and only 3 days before someone gets cursed, that's probably a good thing.
One mechanics wrinkle that I haven't seen mentioned yet: the Cutpurse, by using his dayvig, also becomes an Innocent Child (i.e., mod-confirmed town). I'm thinking that's the more town-beneficial part of his power than the actual dayvig.
Sort of, he double IC's.
He kills scum in one scenario, or fails to kill someone in which case they are both town.
If someone claims Cutpurse falsely the correct thing isn't to counter claim it's to shoot them.
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Or, I meant to ask the more specific question here.
Under what circumstances (of the time of day, of the person who is cursed, of the vote patterns)should the Cutpurse use his ability with the purpose of becoming an IC? (and thus is presumably willing to risk a missed dayvig)
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NVM I missunderstood the role.
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I just got here. And I see we're in for a fast and furious start. With only a 6-day deadline, and only 3 days before someone gets cursed, that's probably a good thing.
One mechanics wrinkle that I haven't seen mentioned yet: the Cutpurse, by using his dayvig, also becomes an Innocent Child (i.e., mod-confirmed town). I'm thinking that's the more town-beneficial part of his power than the actual dayvig.
Sort of, he double IC's.
He kills scum in one scenario, or fails to kill someone in which case they are both town.
If someone claims Cutpurse falsely the correct thing isn't to counter claim it's to shoot them.
I'm confused. Does a Cutpurse day-vig on a town-chicken not go through? I thought it did.
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I just got here. And I see we're in for a fast and furious start. With only a 6-day deadline, and only 3 days before someone gets cursed, that's probably a good thing.
One mechanics wrinkle that I haven't seen mentioned yet: the Cutpurse, by using his dayvig, also becomes an Innocent Child (i.e., mod-confirmed town). I'm thinking that's the more town-beneficial part of his power than the actual dayvig.
Sort of, he double IC's.
He kills scum in one scenario, or fails to kill someone in which case they are both town.
If someone claims Cutpurse falsely the correct thing isn't to counter claim it's to shoot them.
I'm confused. Does a Cutpurse day-vig on a town-chicken not go through? I thought it did.
NVM I missunderstood the role.
Essentially I read Cursed as Sea Hags and thought that cut purse was ridiculous.
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Under what circumstances (of the time of day, of the person who is cursed, of the vote patterns)should the Cutpurse use his ability with the purpose of becoming an IC? (and thus is presumably willing to risk a missed dayvig)
The most obvious situation, I think, is if the Cutpurse himself is in danger of being lynched. Town Cutpurse being lynched (thus ending the day) is a worse situation than the town Cutpurse becoming IC, another player being dayvigged (who could be scum OR town), and the day NOT ending (so the town could still have a productive lynch).
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Jorbles, a rules question: If the Explorer investigates the Lookout, what result does he get?
I can't tell if "Sea Hag or not Sea Hag" means "Sea Hag-aligned or not Sea Hag-aligned," or if it means "a Sea Hag or not a Sea Hag."
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Jorbles, a rules question: If the Explorer investigates the Lookout, what result does he get?
I can't tell if "Sea Hag or not Sea Hag" means "Sea Hag-aligned or not Sea Hag-aligned," or if it means "a Sea Hag or not a Sea Hag."
If the Explorer investigates the Lookout they will get the result Sea Hag.
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Another theory note: Should the town aligned curser early claim? It's a role that town shouldn't care about losing, and a role I don't think scum would fake claim for that reason.
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Another theory note: Should the town aligned curser early claim? It's a role that town shouldn't care about losing, and a role I don't think scum would fake claim for that reason.
This is impossible to do honestly. They do not know they are the Curser.
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Another theory note: Should the town aligned curser early claim? It's a role that town shouldn't care about losing, and a role I don't think scum would fake claim for that reason.
This is impossible to do honestly. They do not know they are the Curser.
I'm not so good at reading the role pms apparently. I think I saw the Curser and the pm so I assumed the person would get the pm. :o
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Thanks, Jorbles.
There is another, rather significant, downside to Cutpurse, the more I think about it. He's the only role that can cause a death other than the scumfaction kill. That means that the Cutpurse using his dayvig puts us at even parity instead of odd parity - and the only way to restore parity is if scum target the Pearl Diver on the night he commutes. (As there are no other extra kills nor any other way to prevent the scums' nightkill).
Huh. I think this means that the Cutpurse dayvig, if he misses, actually costs Town a day. Consider:
1) If Cutpurse never dayvigs:
-- Day 1: 10 town, 3 scum. Assume we mislynch.
-- Day 2: 8 town, 3 scum. Assume we mislynch.
-- Day 3: 6 town, 3 scum. Assume we mislynch.
-- Day 4: 4 town, 3 scum. LYLO.
2) If Cutpurse dayvigs and hits town (assume Day 1 dayvig, though it doesn't really matter when for this exercise):
-- Day 1: 9 town, 3 scum. Assume we mislynch.
-- Day 2: 7 town, 3 scum. Assume we mislynch.
-- Day 3: 5 town, 3 scum. MYLO.
3) If Cutpurse dayvigs and hits scum (again, assume Day 1 dayvig):
-- Day 1: 10 town, 2 scum. Assume we mislynch.
-- Day 2: 8 town, 2 scum. Assume we mislynch.
-- Day 3: 6 town, 2 scum. Assume we mislynch.
-- Day 4: 4 town, 2 scum. MYLO.
If Cutpurse never fires, or if he fires and hits scum, we can mislynch three times without losing the game. If Cutpurse fires and hits town, we can only mislynch TWICE without losing the game. (Again, all of this assumes that the Pearl Diver doesn't restore parity by dodging scum's nightkill.)
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Jorbles:
If I am a chicken, and Galzria is @ L-1
and I say
Chicken Vote: Galzria
ChickenUnvote
Chicken Vote: RobZ
Do I hammer?
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Thanks, Jorbles.
There is another, rather significant, downside to Cutpurse, the more I think about it. He's the only role that can cause a death other than the scumfaction kill. That means that the Cutpurse using his dayvig puts us at even parity instead of odd parity - and the only way to restore parity is if scum target the Pearl Diver on the night he commutes. (As there are no other extra kills nor any other way to prevent the scums' nightkill).
Huh. I think this means that the Cutpurse dayvig, if he misses, actually costs Town a day. Consider:
1) If Cutpurse never dayvigs:
-- Day 1: 10 town, 3 scum. Assume we mislynch.
-- Day 2: 8 town, 3 scum. Assume we mislynch.
-- Day 3: 6 town, 3 scum. Assume we mislynch.
-- Day 4: 4 town, 3 scum. LYLO.
2) If Cutpurse dayvigs and hits town (assume Day 1 dayvig, though it doesn't really matter when for this exercise):
-- Day 1: 9 town, 3 scum. Assume we mislynch.
-- Day 2: 7 town, 3 scum. Assume we mislynch.
-- Day 3: 5 town, 3 scum. MYLO.
3) If Cutpurse dayvigs and hits scum (again, assume Day 1 dayvig):
-- Day 1: 10 town, 2 scum. Assume we mislynch.
-- Day 2: 8 town, 2 scum. Assume we mislynch.
-- Day 3: 6 town, 2 scum. Assume we mislynch.
-- Day 4: 4 town, 2 scum. MYLO.
If Cutpurse never fires, or if he fires and hits scum, we can mislynch three times without losing the game. If Cutpurse fires and hits town, we can only mislynch TWICE without losing the game. (Again, all of this assumes that the Pearl Diver doesn't restore parity by dodging scum's nightkill.)
Unless the dayvig dayvigs instead of hammers - in which case its effectively lynching + mod confirming 1 player as town.
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Unless the dayvig dayvigs instead of hammers - in which case its effectively lynching + mod confirming 1 player as town.
This of course assumes we're about to lynch a chicken.
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Jorbles:
If I am a chicken, and Galzria is @ L-1
and I say
Chicken Vote: Galzria
ChickenUnvote
Chicken Vote: RobZ
Do I hammer?
Yes.
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And if I chicken vote for someone not in the game?
Chicken Vote: G-Money?
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And if I chicken vote for someone not in the game?
Chicken Vote: G-Money?
G-Money is CLEARLY Galzria, and you REALLY dislike Galzria right now eh?
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Grujah is feeling offended.
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Grujah is feeling offended.
Don't speak for (lurkers) someone who hasn't show up yet unless your fingering your scumbuddy for us?
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Unless the dayvig dayvigs instead of hammers - in which case its effectively lynching + mod confirming 1 player as town.
You mean, the dayvig happens, and then we no-lynch to keep odd parity? Well... yes, I suppose. But the mod-confirmed townie (the Cutpurse) is almost certain to be killed in the night. That feels like we've wasted the Cutpurse's IC reveal - it's only strategically useful if we can use that info to help guide a lynch.
Maybe the most strategically sound time for the Cutpurse to dayvig is if the town's suspicions are split between two players: the Cutpurse and someone who has been Cursed. The Cutpurse's dayvig then provides BOTH flips that the Town was interested to get. And then the Town can, immediately (as in, before scum have a chance to nightkill), use that info to help guide the lynch towards someone else (hopefully some other scum!).
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And if I chicken vote for someone not in the game?
Chicken Vote: G-Money?
The effects of being Cursed:
...
You cannot Chicken Vote for players who are not in the game.
...
If you Chicken Vote for someone not in the game in a blatant attempt to impart some information it would be a violation of the rules, and I'd be forced to punish you somehow. If it's clearly a joke I'd probably let it slide and issue a warning, but since it's been brought up. Consider yourselves warned.
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And if I chicken vote for someone not in the game?
Chicken Vote: G-Money?
I guess then people at L-1 can't ask the chicken questions. and if you're a chicken trying to give a town read on somebody at L-1, then you probably should have given that read a long time ago, buddy.
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I am excited to be playing another game with all the experts, though I'm pretty mafia-depressed at the moment. MXII, ugh...
I understand conceptually while Cursed players are more likely to be town. However, if I were a Sea Hag, I would probably instruct my co-Hag to Curse me at every opportunity. So, in practice I don't imagine giving the Cursed much of a past. The bad thing will be the great difficulty they have explaining themselves.
Separately, we are going to need to devise a way for Chickens to role claims. I would propose making a single post with 12 uses of the word Chicken. Like this: "Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken." This will let us know that you are attempting to role claim. Then your next post should have a number of Chickens corresponding to your role, in the order listed in the opening post. In a third post, you should post a number of chickens that corresponds with a person you targeted first (if you're explorer, or something), indexed to the player order from the opening post. And so on.
Make sense?
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typos**
while = why
past = pass
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Wadap? I can't say I understand the setup completely, but death to sea hags right?
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Wadap? I can't say I understand the setup completely, but death to sea hags right?
Vote: Eevee
I'm continuing my MXII tradition of refusing to tolerate silliness or RVS. Always serious, all the time. What do you think of my role claim system for Chickens?
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Oops, Vote: Eevee
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Sure why not, -Vote: Eevee! COME ON EVERYONE JOIN ME THIS IS A GOOD LYNCH!
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Oh wait Unvote, I'm not Morgrim.
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Vote: Grujah
For already starting to lurk. He was on the forum about 90 minutes ago. He would have seen that this started. Yet he left without posting.
The other people who haven't posted yet (jo, Archetype, ashersky, yuma) haven't yet logged into the forum since the game began.
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Vote: Grujah
For already starting to lurk. He was on the forum about 90 minutes ago. He would have seen that this started. Yet he left without posting.
The other people who haven't posted yet (jo, Archetype, ashersky, yuma) haven't yet logged into the forum since the game began.
Actually, I agree completely. I just caught up and noticed Grujah was in lurker mode. And it's pretty well established that scum Grujah lurks like crazy.
Vote: Grujah
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Vote: Grujah
For already starting to lurk. He was on the forum about 90 minutes ago. He would have seen that this started. Yet he left without posting.
The other people who haven't posted yet (jo, Archetype, ashersky, yuma) haven't yet logged into the forum since the game began.
Actually, I agree completely. I just caught up and noticed Grujah was in lurker mode. And it's pretty well established that scum Grujah lurks like crazy.
Vote: Grujah
Vote: Grujah
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Vote: Grujah
L-3, maybe enough pressure votes for now but we are indeed serious.
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Vote: Grujah
L-3, maybe enough pressure votes for now but we are indeed serious.
And f.DS proclaimed let there be no more lurking!
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Vote: Grujah
L-3, maybe enough pressure votes for now but we are indeed serious.
And f.DS proclaimed let there be no more lurking!
That's why I joined a new game.
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Vote: Grujah
L-3, maybe enough pressure votes for now but we are indeed serious.
And f.DS proclaimed let there be no more lurking!
That's why I joined a new game.
I was indeed aware that it was the reason you were abstaining.
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Vote: Grujah
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Vote: Grujah
Frisk the game has been open for like 5 hours, you really think we need someone at L-2!?!?!?!?
Vote: Captain_Frisk
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Clarification, LESS THAN 4 HOURS.
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Vote Count 1.1:
Robz888 (1): Cuzz
Captain_Frisk (2): shraeye, Insomniac
shraeye (1): Galzria
Grujah (4): Voltgloss, Robz888, Eevee, Captain_Frisk
Not voting (4): yuma, ashersky, Archetype, jotheonah
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Currently Cursed: No one
Curse deadline: Saturday Oct 20, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
Lynch deadline: Tuesday Oct 23, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
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Vote: Grujah
L-3, maybe enough pressure votes for now but we are indeed serious.
My vote isn't a "pressure" vote. It's a straight-up vote. Grujah's currently my strongest scumread.
Insom, why are you worried about Grujah's votes going to L-2? Or L-1, for that matter? What are you concerned is going to happen?
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Vote: Grujah
L-3, maybe enough pressure votes for now but we are indeed serious.
My vote isn't a "pressure" vote. It's a straight-up vote. Grujah's currently my strongest scumread.
Insom, why are you worried about Grujah's votes going to L-2? Or L-1, for that matter? What are you concerned is going to happen?
A quick hammer ending day 1 5 hours in and people justifying it with "he was a lurker, I mean it took him 5 hours to post!"
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Unvote Shraeye
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A quick hammer ending day 1 5 hours in and people justifying it with "he was a lurker, I mean it took him 5 hours to post!"
By "quick hammer," do you mean someone hammering Grujah before he has an opportunity to respond?
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I mean someone/anyone ending the day before town has had a chance to talk how many people haven't checked in? 5? We've been open for 5 hours, its hard to clarify anyone as lurking when we've only had the thread open for 5 hours.
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Vote: Grujah
L-3, maybe enough pressure votes for now but we are indeed serious.
My vote isn't a "pressure" vote. It's a straight-up vote. Grujah's currently my strongest scumread.
Insom, why are you worried about Grujah's votes going to L-2? Or L-1, for that matter? What are you concerned is going to happen?
A quick hammer ending day 1 5 hours in and people justifying it with "he was a lurker, I mean it took him 5 hours to post!"
The Derphammer is not in this game.
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Vote: Grujah
L-3, maybe enough pressure votes for now but we are indeed serious.
My vote isn't a "pressure" vote. It's a straight-up vote. Grujah's currently my strongest scumread.
Insom, why are you worried about Grujah's votes going to L-2? Or L-1, for that matter? What are you concerned is going to happen?
A quick hammer ending day 1 5 hours in and people justifying it with "he was a lurker, I mean it took him 5 hours to post!"
There's only two players who, as town, would come in and use such a useful tool (the hammer) to quick-end the day before Grujah got here. Neither player is playing this game. If anybody on f.DS pulled that stunt, I would mercilessly pursue their lynch until the end of this game.
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I mean someone/anyone ending the day before town has had a chance to talk how many people haven't checked in? 5? We've been open for 5 hours, its hard to clarify anyone as lurking when we've only had the thread open for 5 hours.
If someone hammers, it's not Frisk's fault but the hammerers.
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Vote: Grujah
L-3, maybe enough pressure votes for now but we are indeed serious.
My vote isn't a "pressure" vote. It's a straight-up vote. Grujah's currently my strongest scumread.
Insom, why are you worried about Grujah's votes going to L-2? Or L-1, for that matter? What are you concerned is going to happen?
A quick hammer ending day 1 5 hours in and people justifying it with "he was a lurker, I mean it took him 5 hours to post!"
There's only two players who, as town, would come in and use such a useful tool (the hammer) to quick-end the day before Grujah got here. Neither player is playing this game. If anybody on f.DS pulled that stunt, I would mercilessly pursue their lynch until the end of this game.
Who is the second? I know 1 is derphammer.
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Anybody else* on f.DS.
Oh, and Eevee ninja'd me.
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Morgrim, O.
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Edit for clarification:
A quick hammer ending day 1 5 hours in and people justifying it with "he was a lurker, I mean it took him 5 hours to post!"
By "quick hammer," do you mean scum hammering Grujah before he has an opportunity to respond?
Because surely town wouldn't do that, right? I don't see O or Morgrim in the player list.
PPE: repeatedly ninja'd by Eevee and Galz. Every time I adjust my post to take their posts into account, there are more posts. I've tried to hit "post" about 5 times. :P
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Essentially I don't see why ANY wagon should be L-2 FIVE HOURS after DAY 1 START. That's ridiculous, if he is town he could be quick hammered, if he's scum he would be quick hammered and we'd have low information day 2 regardless because of how short day 1 is.
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This is the best day 1 yet.
Obviously - no-one should hammer Grujah, and he might have been surfing from his phone while dropping the kids off at the pool.
However - we do need to be quick here. We enter curse mode in 3 days right?
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Essentially I don't see why ANY wagon should be L-2 FIVE HOURS after DAY 1 START. That's ridiculous, if he is town he could be quick hammered, if he's scum he would be quick hammered and we'd have low information day 2 regardless because of how short day 1 is.
Vote: Insomniac
Nobody is going to quick hammer 5 hours in. This is an obvious ploy to get some pro town points.
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Essentially I don't see why ANY wagon should be L-2 FIVE HOURS after DAY 1 START. That's ridiculous, if he is town he could be quick hammered, if he's scum he would be quick hammered and we'd have low information day 2 regardless because of how short day 1 is.
Due to the setup of the game, we need to move quick. More wagons the merrier, as long as people don't play terrible and quickhammer. No harm in having more wagons to analyze quicker, I'm glad we are progressing.
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I'd vote Ins too but he always reads like this to me..
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Essentially I don't see why ANY wagon should be L-2 FIVE HOURS after DAY 1 START. That's ridiculous, if he is town he could be quick hammered, if he's scum he would be quick hammered and we'd have low information day 2 regardless because of how short day 1 is.
Vote: Insomniac
Nobody is going to quick hammer 5 hours in. This is an obvious ploy to get some pro town points.
Pro town points when there is clearly town on the wagon and I'm going against the grain of 5 people? No I'm not trying to get town points, I'm pointing out its ridiculous to put someone to L-2 5 hours after the game starts.
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I'd vote Ins too but he always reads like this to me..
In exactly one of those cases I was scum. I LOVE waffles.
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Essentially I don't see why ANY wagon should be L-2 FIVE HOURS after DAY 1 START. That's ridiculous, if he is town he could be quick hammered, if he's scum he would be quick hammered and we'd have low information day 2 regardless because of how short day 1 is.
Did you seriously just argue that lynching scum is bad?
Your first point is moot, as he wouldn't be quickhammered by any town players in this game, which means IF he was, it would be a scum quickhammer. I don't care if he's L-2, L-1, whatever. No town player in this game would hammer him.
The second point, I don't even... What? Lynching scum for lurking, is still lynching scum. If it happened in 3 hours, 3 days, or 3 weeks, it would still be lynching scum. Scum lynch = Good for town. Period.
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Essentially I don't see why ANY wagon should be L-2 FIVE HOURS after DAY 1 START. That's ridiculous, if he is town he could be quick hammered, if he's scum he would be quick hammered and we'd have low information day 2 regardless because of how short day 1 is.
Did you seriously just argue that lynching scum is bad?
Your first point is moot, as he wouldn't be quickhammered by any town players in this game, which means IF he was, it would be a scum quickhammer. I don't care if he's L-2, L-1, whatever. No town player in this game would hammer him.
The second point, I don't even... What? Lynching scum for lurking, is still lynching scum. If it happened in 3 hours, 3 days, or 3 weeks, it would still be lynching scum. Scum lynch = Good for town. Period.
Scum lynch is good for town, town lynch 3 hours is not, we don't know which it is.
And a scum lynch 3 hours in with 5 people who haven't said anything is worse than a scum lynch 3 days in once everybody has said something.
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As for CF. He claimed VT, and put someone to L-2 5 hours into a game, I'm happy with my vote on him for now until someone actually earns a lurker status.
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As for CF. He claimed VT, and put someone to L-2 5 hours into a game, I'm happy with my vote on him for now until someone actually earns a lurker status.
I don't think his reasons for voting me are good but others to so I'll let that part go.
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Did you even look at the context around my VT claim?
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Essentially I don't see why ANY wagon should be L-2 FIVE HOURS after DAY 1 START. That's ridiculous, if he is town he could be quick hammered, if he's scum he would be quick hammered and we'd have low information day 2 regardless because of how short day 1 is.
I understand this is unorthodox compared to most other games. But really, the situations you describe... aren't bad for town.
If Grujah is town, and gets quickhammered from L-2, then surely the quickhammer was caused by scum (given this player list). Day 2, we lynch that scum. That's a good thing.
If Grujah is scum, and gets quickhammered, we have lynched scum. What other "information" are you hoping to get out of Day 1? This isn't a situation like M-XII Day 2, where the town had potentially-competing roleclaims to parse out and could have gained key information from one of those flips. This is Day 1, the closest we ever get to RVS, and if the results of Day 1 are lynching scum I'll take it no matter HOW we get there.
PPE: 5 new posts. Haven't read them yet.
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Essentially I don't see why ANY wagon should be L-2 FIVE HOURS after DAY 1 START. That's ridiculous, if he is town he could be quick hammered, if he's scum he would be quick hammered and we'd have low information day 2 regardless because of how short day 1 is.
Did you seriously just argue that lynching scum is bad?
Your first point is moot, as he wouldn't be quickhammered by any town players in this game, which means IF he was, it would be a scum quickhammer. I don't care if he's L-2, L-1, whatever. No town player in this game would hammer him.
The second point, I don't even... What? Lynching scum for lurking, is still lynching scum. If it happened in 3 hours, 3 days, or 3 weeks, it would still be lynching scum. Scum lynch = Good for town. Period.
Scum lynch is good for town, town lynch 3 hours is not, we don't know which it is.
And a scum lynch 3 hours in with 5 people who haven't said anything is worse than a scum lynch 3 days in once everybody has said something.
I do realize that I slightly misread your statement, which is that we would have less information, but that said, I stand by my belief that no town player would hammer another player without letting him come in and discuss. Vote: Grujah.
I won't let Grujah lurk. And getting an artificial wagon up to L-2 just to have everybody* run away like Chicken Little (see what I did there?) serves no pressure for him to come join in. If wagons are irrelevant and artificial, what's the point?
*- Not everyone was ding this.
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Good evening, everybody!
So many votes on me so early!
However, I am slight drunk and as a result a bit depressed :( and I am going to vote: Eevee
He plays poker and is too friendly so you know he is scum, as always.
Other guy I am considering is jo, as he is lurking even worse than I am!
Important stuff: If I get turned into a chicken, I will converse in morse.
Thus, "Chicken." will translate as a dot (.) and "Chicken Chicken." will translate as a slash (-).
I think this is pretty much a neat idea and that everybody should give his code away early, or he is scum!
It only benefits town and doesn't give any advantage to the scum, AFAIK.
PPE: 6 new msgs.
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WTF at Insom attacking CF for "claiming VT" when that "claim" was clearly a joke.
PPE: I see Grujah posted. Haven't read his post yet.
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Insomniac, why are you assuming the players are not playing reasonable here? It's like being afraid of giving a consenting adult a pair of scissors in the fear of him cutting himself with them.
WHAT HARM DOES THE L-2 DO IF NO TOWNIE IS WILLING TO DO SOMETHING AS OBVIOUSLY ANTITOWN AS QUICKHAMMERING 5 HOURS INTO THE GAME? None. It just gives us more to analyze.
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Grujah, I think that falls under cryptography and is forbidden. Nice to see you here though! I wish I was drinking on this fine wednesday..
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Other guy I am considering is jo, as he is lurking even worse than I am!
jo hasn't been on the forum yet since the game started.
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Essentially I don't see why ANY wagon should be L-2 FIVE HOURS after DAY 1 START. That's ridiculous, if he is town he could be quick hammered, if he's scum he would be quick hammered and we'd have low information day 2 regardless because of how short day 1 is.
Did you seriously just argue that lynching scum is bad?
Your first point is moot, as he wouldn't be quickhammered by any town players in this game, which means IF he was, it would be a scum quickhammer. I don't care if he's L-2, L-1, whatever. No town player in this game would hammer him.
The second point, I don't even... What? Lynching scum for lurking, is still lynching scum. If it happened in 3 hours, 3 days, or 3 weeks, it would still be lynching scum. Scum lynch = Good for town. Period.
Scum lynch is good for town, town lynch 3 hours is not, we don't know which it is.
And a scum lynch 3 hours in with 5 people who haven't said anything is worse than a scum lynch 3 days in once everybody has said something.
I do realize that I slightly misread your statement, which is that we would have less information, but that said, I stand by my belief that no town player would hammer another player without letting him come in and discuss. Vote: Grujah.
I won't let Grujah lurk. And getting an artificial wagon up to L-2 just to have everybody* run away like Chicken Little (see what I did there?) serves no pressure for him to come join in. If wagons are irrelevant and artificial, what's the point?
*- Not everyone was ding this.
Omigosh, seriously?
I mean, seriously now?
That's L-2 on RVS. I was at college when game started, sigh.
Also, Advance info.
Whether I am VT or PR or even scum (gasp! but I ain't), I am not going to forceclaim this game. I will only claim with significant info.
Now, this wagon seems RVS, but there is scum on it, I guarantee.
It's that scum vibe that goes "look, this sure is ridicoulus, but it just MIGHT work, I need to support it."
For lack of better judgment, and drunkenness, Vote: yuma. Actually, 4th and 3rd spot are scummier by default, but here he is just scum jumping on town based wagon with no feel of remorse.
PPE: 4.
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Grujah, I think that falls under cryptography and is forbidden. Nice to see you here though! I wish I was drinking on this fine wednesday..
I dunno, Jorbles can rule it out if it is forbbiden. I already asked him if it is ok to write a computer code/script that would translate my chickens, and he said no.
I think this is more in the spirit of the rules. If it is not, I annoucned it infront so Jorbles can judge.
Too lazy to fix typos, announced and infront and forbiden seem to be misspelled.
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For lack of better judgment, and drunkenness, Vote: yuma. Actually, 4th and 3rd spot are scummier by default, but here he is just scum jumping on town based wagon with no feel of remorse.
yuma is not on your wagon.
Neither yuma, ashersky, Archetype, nor jotheonah have been logged into the forum yet since the game started.
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Unvote
I'm not saying I want you lynched Gruj, at least, not yet. But I DO want to see lurking down. Hey, you're here now, great! I actually have a slight scum read on you now, compared to a null read, but it's not strong enough to push a lynch.
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For lack of better judgment, and drunkenness, Vote: yuma. Actually, 4th and 3rd spot are scummier by default, but here he is just scum jumping on town based wagon with no feel of remorse.
yuma is not on your wagon.
Neither yuma, ashersky, Archetype, nor jotheonah have been logged into the forum yet since the game started.
Whoah, you are right, that is Galzria. Those avatars are too similar.
Vote: Galzria
I actually have a slight scum read on you now, compared to a null read, but it's not strong enough to push a lynch.
Please explain why.
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For lack of better judgment, and drunkenness, Vote: yuma. Actually, 4th and 3rd spot are scummier by default, but here he is just scum jumping on town based wagon with no feel of remorse.
yuma is not on your wagon.
Neither yuma, ashersky, Archetype, nor jotheonah have been logged into the forum yet since the game started.
Vote: Grujah
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Not falling for drunk Grujah again.
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Not falling for drunk Grujah again.
I really was drunk MXII.
And really am now.
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Not falling for drunk Grujah again.
I really was drunk MXII.
And really am now.
Ergo....
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Faulty logic is faulty. Derp.
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Actually: I'm going back to Insomniac
Vote: Insomniac
It's not like Insomniac hasn't been following MXII to realize that my VT claim was clearly a MXII reference. Attempting to build a real case on me using obvious jokes is the scummiest thing I've seen here yet.
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Not falling for drunk Grujah again.
I really was drunk MXII.
And really am now.
Ergo....
This is a large part of the scum vibe I get from him. However it's not enough to push a vote on (in my opinion).
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Not falling for drunk Grujah again.
I really was drunk MXII.
And really am now.
Ergo....
This is a large part of the scum vibe I get from him. However it's not enough to push a vote on (in my opinion).
WHAT IS?
You keep brining up the vibe and not explaining it. I am satisfied with my vote so far.
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Not falling for drunk Grujah again.
I really was drunk MXII.
And really am now.
Ergo....
This is a large part of the scum vibe I get from him. However it's not enough to push a vote on (in my opinion).
WHAT IS?
You keep brining up the vibe and not explaining it. I am satisfied with my vote so far.
Scum Grujah has a history of hiding behind his bring drunk, and using it as a reason he isn't scum because "scum Grujah wouldn't do that".
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Actually: I'm going back to Insomniac
Vote: Insomniac
It's not like Insomniac hasn't been following MXII to realize that my VT claim was clearly a MXII reference. Attempting to build a real case on me using obvious jokes is the scummiest thing I've seen here yet.
So scum Ins knew you were obviously kidding but decided to vote you over it anyways hoping.. exactly what? Not buying it. Terrible reason to vote.
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Not falling for drunk Grujah again.
I really was drunk MXII.
And really am now.
Ergo....
This is a large part of the scum vibe I get from him. However it's not enough to push a vote on (in my opinion).
WHAT IS?
You keep brining up the vibe and not explaining it. I am satisfied with my vote so far.
Scum Grujah has a history of hiding behind his bring drunk, and using it as a reason he isn't scum because "scum Grujah wouldn't do that".
This too. Scum Grujah wouldn't do what? Drink?
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Grujah, I think that falls under cryptography and is forbidden. Nice to see you here though! I wish I was drinking on this fine wednesday..
I dunno, Jorbles can rule it out if it is forbbiden. I already asked him if it is ok to write a computer code/script that would translate my chickens, and he said no.
I think this is more in the spirit of the rules. If it is not, I annoucned it infront so Jorbles can judge.
Too lazy to fix typos, announced and infront and forbiden seem to be misspelled.
Sorry, this counts as cryptography though I appreciate the creativity behind this idea.
Also I like that Grujah noticed his typos, was too lazy to fix them, but was not too lazy to retype them.
PPE: One million posts happened.
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Not falling for drunk Grujah again.
I really was drunk MXII.
And really am now.
Ergo....
This is a large part of the scum vibe I get from him. However it's not enough to push a vote on (in my opinion).
WHAT IS?
You keep brining up the vibe and not explaining it. I am satisfied with my vote so far.
Scum Grujah has a history of hiding behind his bring drunk, and using it as a reason he isn't scum because "scum Grujah wouldn't do that".
This too. Scum Grujah wouldn't do what? Drink?
Yes, that argument has been used in the past for why Grujah isn't scum... When he was scum. So I find it to be scummy when it's used here. I don't see your problem with that. I'm not voting for him (unvoted BEFORE he OMGUS voted me, btw), but I find it suspicious. Sorry you find having scum reads to be terrible.
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I think the thing scum Gruj supposedly wouldn't do when he was drunk (even though he did) was claiming a doctor without catching up first. Here he is just normally posting?
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Well - first he lurked (allegedly) by logging in but not posting. Then after we went crazy and pushed his wagon - he drunk posted and voted yuma.
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I think the thing scum Gruj supposedly wouldn't do when he was drunk (even though he did) was claiming a doctor without catching up first. Here he is just normally posting?
Like I said, I find it -slightly- scummy. As in, more likely scum than town. But it's not OMGOBVSCUM VOTEVOTEVOTE! I *unvoted* in the post that I pointed out my slight scum read.
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Robz has been surprisingly quiet ever since making his vote.
I also see jo reading the thread now. Looking forward to his (and the other haven't-yet-posted folks') thoughts.
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I also wonder why shraeye logged off without making any sort of comment at all on the Grujah wagon.
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I also wonder why shraeye logged off without making any sort of comment at all on the Grujah wagon.
Maybe you should make your status visible so we can judge you as you judge us?
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I also wonder why shraeye logged off without making any sort of comment at all on the Grujah wagon.
Maybe you should make your status visible so we can judge you as you judge us?
+1
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Hi.
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I can't believe scum Grujah wants us to fall for the "but I'm drunk!" bit again. It's insulting!
Also it looks like this has already been covered, but I HATE the "Oh no, don't let anyone get anywhere near L-1!" attitude. No one feels worried or pressured until they have a significant chunk of votes against them, anyway. Furthermore, it's also become common to give someone 4 votes or something to get them to respond, and they do some bare minimum response, and the wagon dissipates. Jotheonah was guilty of this early on Day 2 of MXII.
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And with that, happy hour is calling.
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I can't believe scum Grujah wants us to fall for the "but I'm drunk!" bit again. It's insulting!
Also it looks like this has already been covered, but I HATE the "Oh no, don't let anyone get anywhere near L-1!" attitude. No one feels worried or pressured until they have a significant chunk of votes against them, anyway. Furthermore, it's also become common to give someone 4 votes or something to get them to respond, and they do some bare minimum response, and the wagon dissipates. Jotheonah was guilty of this early on Day 2 of MXII.
Hell screw putting him to l-1 lets just lynch him, thatll teach him to not be online when the game starts! Lets let all the other people who haven't showed up yet have a free pass too I mean Grujah is the scummy lurker right?
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This has been quite a day 1. Some thoughts.
On the Grujah wagon: It kind of bothers me, because it's hard for me to get a read on someone who's already at L-2 when he makes his first post. I need to be able to compare someone's under-pressure posting to normal posting to get a good read, and the quickwagon deprived me of that. I'll get over it though. Not voting for him right now, anyway.
Town read: Capn' Frisk.
Scum reads: Insomniac and Eevee.
Eevee is being really critical of other people's reads and shooting them down in a way that gives me a bad vibe.
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This has been quite a day 1. Some thoughts.
On the Grujah wagon: It kind of bothers me, because it's hard for me to get a read on someone who's already at L-2 when he makes his first post. I need to be able to compare someone's under-pressure posting to normal posting to get a good read, and the quickwagon deprived me of that. I'll get over it though. Not voting for him right now, anyway.
Town read: Capn' Frisk.
Scum reads: Insomniac and Eevee.
Eevee is being really critical of other people's reads and shooting them down in a way that gives me a bad vibe.
You explained your scum read on Eevee, whats your scum read on me from.
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I also wonder why shraeye logged off without making any sort of comment at all on the Grujah wagon.
Maybe you should make your status visible so we can judge you as you judge us?
+1
I'm not going by status, I'm clicking on username and seeing when people were last active. Whether your online status is visible or not, that information remains available and is unchanged.
That said, I have no problem with making my status visible.
PPE: 4 new posts. Have not read yet.
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For reference later, the Grujah quickwagon: Voltgloss, Robz888, Eevee, Captain_Frisk, Galzria
The anti-gru-quickwagon-crowd: Grujah, Insomniac.
Insom, on you I'm echoing Frisk. You're taking obvious joke posts like they're serious. You seem like you're trying to push reads you ought to know are bogus.
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For reference later, the Grujah quickwagon: Voltgloss, Robz888, Eevee, Captain_Frisk, Galzria
The anti-gru-quickwagon-crowd: Grujah, Insomniac.
Insom, on you I'm echoing Frisk. You're taking obvious joke posts like they're serious. You seem like you're trying to push reads you ought to know are bogus.
My case on Frisk is mostly the L-2 thing.
Also I WAS on the Gru wagon, I just was choked that it hit L-2 before everyone has even checked in. I still have a slight scum read on him and will happily revote once everyone has checked in if I don't have a better read (right now Frisk and Gru are about equally scummy to me but Gru's wagon is way too large)
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Insom, on you I'm echoing Frisk. You're taking obvious joke posts like they're serious. You seem like you're trying to push reads you ought to know are bogus.
To further take this you have seen me as scum recently, I don't push bad cases, I stand against bad cases while pushing good/ok ones which is I guess something I'm also doing here
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Insom, on you I'm echoing Frisk. You're taking obvious joke posts like they're serious. You seem like you're trying to push reads you ought to know are bogus.
To further take this you have seen me as scum recently, I don't push bad cases, I stand against bad cases while pushing good/ok ones which is I guess something I'm also doing here
He figures it out folks!
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Insom, on you I'm echoing Frisk. You're taking obvious joke posts like they're serious. You seem like you're trying to push reads you ought to know are bogus.
To further take this you have seen me as scum recently, I don't push bad cases, I stand against bad cases while pushing good/ok ones which is I guess something I'm also doing here
He figures it out folks!
Well rather than have you pushing a mediocre case on me I thought I'd give you the real case ;)
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shraeye and ashersky are both on now. Looking forward to their thoughts.
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shraeye and ashersky are both on now. Looking forward to their thoughts.
Man, six pages overnight? This will be a fun game.
I quickly read through, first impressions are CF, Robz, and VG with the most in-depth posts early, which reads town to me.
The quick wagon was interesting as a talking point--I saw no reason to fear L-3, which I think is the worst it got. Drunk Grujah is normal Grujah to me, btw.
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shraeye and ashersky are both on now. Looking forward to their thoughts.
Man, six pages overnight? This will be a fun game.
I quickly read through, first impressions are CF, Robz, and VG with the most in-depth posts early, which reads town to me.
The quick wagon was interesting as a talking point--I saw no reason to fear L-3, which I think is the worst it got. Drunk Grujah is normal Grujah to me, btw.
... it hit L-2 hence my being concerned. L-3 is pretty big but nothing to be concerned over.
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Also VG with a super Big Brother vibe with the Internet monitoring...
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Wtf I come back from class and RVS is over? You guys aren't really gonna make me unvote Robz are you?
This Grujah wagon looks awful, and it makes no sense. That thing went from zero to L-2 in 14 minutes. Eevee's position on the wagon and comment when he hopped on stands out to me:
Vote: Grujah
L-3, maybe enough pressure votes for now but we are indeed serious.
Potentially scummy 4th on the wagon. Sounds like: "I want on this wagon, but anyone who gets on after me is scummy!" Not sure what to make of that. But Eevee is not giving me his normally ultra-townvibe.
On another note, this comment from Grujah stands out as really weird:
Also, Advance info.
Whether I am VT or PR or even scum (gasp! but I ain't), I am not going to forceclaim this game. I will only claim with significant info.
I mean, Grujah just won a game as scum (I forget which one) in part because he did forceclaim. Not sure what to make of this either.
Plus where are ashersky, yuma and Archetype (I think those are the only ones missing)?
PPE: ashersky is here
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I also wonder why shraeye logged off without making any sort of comment at all on the Grujah wagon.
'cause I got duties. Today I had to teach, then plan lessons, then go to seminars, then drive people places. I often have to do things in real life, and don't have time to post all my thoughts. Sometimes I've got the tab up and sometimes I don't. Sometimes I'll post thoughts, sometimes I won't.
The wagon was silly, but I wanted to derphammer it just because so many people said that it wouldn't happen. The moment has passed, and I'm trying to be reasonable.
Galzria is making arguments about drunkenness being scumtells or something like that. I'm having trouble following. But I don't like. FoS: Galzria
Voltgloss, it seems that what you're doing is just trying to prod people into not lurking. Don't worry, I'm no lurker. But if you're gonna FoS people everytime they log on without commenting, you're gonna get a lot of useless reads.
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Vote: Eevee. Happy to see I'm not the only one who thinks he's playing weird compared to normal. And he did seem awfully keen to hop on the Gru wagon at a scummy moment.
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The wagon was silly, but I wanted to derphammer it just because so many people said that it wouldn't happen. The moment has passed, and I'm trying to be reasonable.
The wagon was silly, but I wanted to derphammer it just because so many people said that it wouldn't happen.
The wagon was silly, but I wanted to derphammer it.
The wagon was silly, but I wanted to derphammer it.
Vote: Shraeye
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The wagon was silly, but I wanted to derphammer it just because so many people said that it wouldn't happen. The moment has passed, and I'm trying to be reasonable.
The wagon was silly, but I wanted to derphammer it just because so many people said that it wouldn't happen.
The wagon was silly, but I wanted to derphammer it.
The wagon was silly, but I wanted to derphammer it.
Vote: Shraeye
Careful guys - when Insomniac increases his font size - you know he's found scum.
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The wagon was silly, but I wanted to derphammer it just because so many people said that it wouldn't happen. The moment has passed, and I'm trying to be reasonable.
The wagon was silly, but I wanted to derphammer it just because so many people said that it wouldn't happen.
The wagon was silly, but I wanted to derphammer it.
The wagon was silly, but I wanted to derphammer it.
Vote: Shraeye
Careful guys - when Insomniac increases his font size - you know he's found scum.
it's true the only other time I've done it was M8 when you said you had a 0% chance of flipping town ;)
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It's hard to derphammer someone at L-2 unless you've coordinated it with your scumbuddies.
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Vote Count 1.2:
Robz888 (1): Cuzz
Captain_Frisk (1): shraeye
Grujah (3): Voltgloss, Robz888, Eevee
Insomniac (1): Captain_Frisk
Galzria (1): Grujah
Eevee (1): jotheonah
shraeye (1): Insomniac
Not voting (4): yuma, ashersky, Archetype, Galzria
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Currently Cursed: No one
Curse deadline: Saturday Oct 20, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
Lynch deadline: Tuesday Oct 23, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
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Didn't Grujah switch to Galz?
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I've certainly worked on getting more confidence to my game. I've come to the realization I might actually be ok at scumhunting if I really try rather than sheep other people like a mad man like I did earlier.
Now, what apparently rubs you the wrong way is me "shooting down" Frisk's Insomniac vote. Guyyyyyys. He blamed Insomniac for acting as if he didn't realize Frisk's VT claim was a joke. Why would he do that as mafia? Sure, pushing bad cases is a scumtell, but that's not a bad case. That's not a case at all! What would have been scum-Ins's master plan!? That no one realized Frisk was obv-kidding and proceeded to policy-lynch him the way you fools lynched PPS day 1 in wafflemafia? How is me pointing this out nothing but pro-town?
The other thing was with Grujah, I just don't see a correlation between his alignment and state of sobriety. "He would only announce he has had a few if he was scum." is quite an assumption imo.
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I apoliogized for this in another game already, but I was pretty pissed IRL for not getting proper nutrition when posting here earlier, maybe that's why I came off snappy. I think that explains Cuzz's bad gut-feeling.
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Didn't Grujah switch to Galz?
You are correct, sorry missed that. Fixed now.
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Hey guise, I'm here. Where's yuma?
Quick thoughts:
Seems like I'm playing with some of the best Mafia players on the forum, should be fun, but a bit intimidating.
Grujah Wagon: Even if he was drunk he could have just came on, said, "Hey guys I'm, I'll be back when I'm sober," instead of continuing to stay online.
Eevee's abnormal anger: I agree, his personality seems a bit off this game. His excuse could be real, or could be just a scrambled attempt to respond to the early votes on him.
Insomniac's scum accusation: I think I agree with this. Insomniac has a knack for finding scum, and what shraeye said is a bit scummy.
Vote: Shraeye
I'll have to read back and get some good town/scum reads on people. I just quickly read the thread, and gave this post so people won't accuse me of being a lurker. So far this D1 has been quite the rush!
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Archetype's post gave me a town vibe, which is weird because he has (iirc) always been town this far and I've always thought he was scummy.
Yuma not being here yet isn't that big of a deal, this started a bit suddenly (positive surprise!).
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shraeye's derphammer comment comes off as willfully contrarian, but not necessarily scummy. Like, if he were scum, why would he make a comment like that? Meh - nullread to me.
And a suggestion to shraeye, if you are town: if you actually DO take an anti-town action like derpquickhammering - as opposing to simply saying you were tempted to do so - then you are tanking the game for town, as the rest of the town will not forgive you for it (and scum will happily push them along in that regard).
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shraeye's derphammer comment comes off as willfully contrarian, but not necessarily scummy. Like, if he were scum, why would he make a comment like that? Meh - nullread to me.
And a suggestion to shraeye, if you are town: if you actually DO take an anti-town action like derpquickhammering - as opposing to simply saying you were tempted to do so - then you are tanking the game for town, as the rest of the town will not forgive you for it (and scum will happily push them along in that regard).
Yeah, that'd be the part where I said I was back to thinking reasonably for now. Just warning people that it makes me want to do things when people say "NOOOOOObody would ever do THAT"
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shraeye's derphammer comment comes off as willfully contrarian, but not necessarily scummy. Like, if he were scum, why would he make a comment like that? Meh - nullread to me.
And a suggestion to shraeye, if you are town: if you actually DO take an anti-town action like derpquickhammering - as opposing to simply saying you were tempted to do so - then you are tanking the game for town, as the rest of the town will not forgive you for it (and scum will happily push them along in that regard).
Yeah, that'd be the part where I said I was back to thinking reasonably for now. Just warning people that it makes me want to do things when people say "NOOOOOObody would ever do THAT"
So when people say "Nobody with a town wincon would be completely and intentionally anti-town", you want to go out of your way to be anti-town?
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I think he's just saying that it would be fun.
Haven't you ever thought about doing something bad? Mooning a cop?
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So when people say "Nobody with a town wincon would be completely and intentionally anti-town", you want to go out of your way to be anti-town?
Essentially, yeah. That's exactly my sort of ridiculous, terrible sense of humor.
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I think he's just saying that it would be fun.
Haven't you ever thought about doing something bad? Mooning a cop?
No, no I haven't.
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Noooobody would ever join Grujah's hydra mafia and Insomniac's ZM and Switch games, right guys?
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Noooobody would ever join Grujah's hydra mafia and Insomniac's ZM and Switch games, right guys?
All examples of bad decisions!
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Vote: Grujah
For already starting to lurk. He was on the forum about 90 minutes ago. He would have seen that this started. Yet he left without posting.
The other people who haven't posted yet (jo, Archetype, ashersky, yuma) haven't yet logged into the forum since the game began.
FWIW this was during classes on my mobile, checking for PMs. My mobile is very primitive by todays standards, though.
Grujah, I think that falls under cryptography and is forbidden. Nice to see you here though! I wish I was drinking on this fine wednesday..
I dunno, Jorbles can rule it out if it is forbbiden. I already asked him if it is ok to write a computer code/script that would translate my chickens, and he said no.
I think this is more in the spirit of the rules. If it is not, I annoucned it infront so Jorbles can judge.
Too lazy to fix typos, announced and infront and forbiden seem to be misspelled.
Sorry, this counts as cryptography though I appreciate the creativity behind this idea.
Also I like that Grujah noticed his typos, was too lazy to fix them, but was not too lazy to retype them.
PPE: One million posts happened.
Morse too?
Shrugs. I guess I'll just have to chicken as a non-programmer person.
Also, sober, will read stuff, hopefully.
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Also, caveat (what does this word mean anyway?):
My new meta says me lurking = scum, so I'll have to post like mad this game not to get lynched.
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Also, caveat (what does this word mean anyway?):
My new meta says me lurking = scum, so I'll have to post like mad this game not to get lynched.
Ummm...to hide that you are scum? That just sounded bad.
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Also, caveat (what does this word mean anyway?):
My new meta says me lurking = scum, so I'll have to post like mad this game not to get lynched.
Ummm...to hide that you are scum? That just sounded bad.
Survivalism isn't necessarily a scum tell (it's in every factions wincon to prefer living), but yeah..
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Also, caveat (what does this word mean anyway?):
My new meta says me lurking = scum, so I'll have to post like mad this game not to get lynched.
Ummm...to hide that you are scum? That just sounded bad.
Survivalism isn't necessarily a scum tell (it's in every factions wincon to prefer living), but yeah..
I don't care if I live or die. I care that town wins.
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Also, caveat (what does this word mean anyway?):
My new meta says me lurking = scum, so I'll have to post like mad this game not to get lynched.
Ummm...to hide that you are scum? That just sounded bad.
Survivalism isn't necessarily a scum tell (it's in every factions wincon to prefer living), but yeah..
I don't care if I live or die. I care that town wins.
But surely you dying is anti town?
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I wouldn't care about my personal survival any more if I was mafia. As a serial killer it would be a top priority though.
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Sure, start the fun without me....
I mentioned this before in the V/LA thread but I will mention it here again, but you guys are unlikely to get much participation from me until my (mountain time) evenings as I am now in fullblown rotation mode. I can read this thread (they go to an e-mail that I can access) when I am at work, but not when I am at rotations. But I can't reply to anything at work or at rotations since this sight is blocked there... So hopefully you will get enough of me from my evening posts--and I am generally more active during the weekends.
As for this game: Reading nearly everything from a delayed point of view everything still seems mostly RVS based. The votes on Grujah appear to be based off lurking, as I have repeatedly said before and will say again here, I will only vote for lurkers if it is scummy lurking. I don't think Grujah's "lurking"--I don't think we can qualify this as lurking anymore can we--this early into the game, and taking into consideration his posts, as scummy lurking. As for the Insomniac reaction to it: meh... same to the shraeye saying he wanted to derphammer: meh...
We do need to make sure we establish a form of chicken communication for everyone... none of this one person doing one thing and another doing the other--that just reeks of confusion down the line. Someone come up with something, everyone agree to it and stick with it! No deviating from it. Period! We have a little over 2 days to come up with a system? We need one by tomorrow at this time.
Kinda weird not playing with new players... Although I dont' think I have personally played with archetype before. Hello archetype.
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Oh yeah, I really like the player list in this game. Some good people! Not that the guys not in this game are any worse people. Eh..
I vote Chicken for yes, Chicken chicken for no and Chicken chicken chicken for something else. In my opinion making it too complicated would be confusing and against the spirit of the whole cursing deal.
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Agree with:
1 chicken for yes.
2 chickens for no.
3 chickens for anything else.
Chicken votes will have to be scum reads.
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Also, caveat (what does this word mean anyway?):
My new meta says me lurking = scum, so I'll have to post like mad this game not to get lynched.
Ummm...to hide that you are scum? That just sounded bad.
Survivalism isn't necessarily a scum tell (it's in every factions wincon to prefer living), but yeah..
I don't care if I live or die. I care that town wins.
Word, this is how I play too. Except town-Galz staying alive is usually very helpful for town, so I care if town-Galz dies.
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1. My drunk post.
Ok, I am getting some heat cuz I fakeclaim a doctor while drunk, and not any post I make drunk is scummy. Sigh. I mafia'd drunk
while I was always-town too, I even made real town claims while drunk too (Mafia IX. Actually, Archetype, as you though I should have sobered up first, might want to read the first few pages of D2 there, it starts on page ~38. Some of my best play there, most if it gassed).
Also, in MXII, I claim only not to read stuff while under. No bad play due to drunkness in this game.
To sum up, MIX again:
Too drunk to focus on questions, but...
Omigosh obvscum, you claimed Wednesday too.
Good thing alignment isn't based on that. Otherwise Frisk, Axxle, you and I would be scum like, all the time. ;D
My social/drinking life and my scumminess are unrelated.
2. Reads:
Easiest game ever. Shraeye, Ins and Frisk are a scumteam.
Let me elaborate few people.
Eevee: scum read first, now town. For selfvoting in attempt to keep up with "Eevee jokster" meta, it just seemed fake. Being on a bad place on my wagon (3rd) and also voting me and saying it's for pressure. You should never announce pressure.
Now, this might be WIFOM, but no way a scum would post this:
Essentially I don't see why ANY wagon should be L-2 FIVE HOURS after DAY 1 START. That's ridiculous, if he is town he could be quick hammered, if he's scum he would be quick hammered and we'd have low information day 2 regardless because of how short day 1 is.
Due to the setup of the game, we need to move quick. More wagons the merrier, as long as people don't play terrible and quickhammer. No harm in having more wagons to analyze quicker, I'm glad we are progressing.
Just.. no way. When you are about to post a thing like that, you stop and think - jeez.
Insomniac - way he protects me going L-1 is seemed fake. There was NO chance of quickhammer. Well, there was some, but I would give my life gladly if it meant catching scum. Any town would.
Frisk - well, nothing strong actually, way he bickered with Ins might be new f.ds D1 scumbus meta. Probably nothing. Maybe even town.
shraeye - read this:
I also wonder why shraeye logged off without making any sort of comment at all on the Grujah wagon.
'cause I got duties. Today I had to teach, then plan lessons, then go to seminars, then drive people places. I often have to do things in real life, and don't have time to post all my thoughts. Sometimes I've got the tab up and sometimes I don't. Sometimes I'll post thoughts, sometimes I won't.
The wagon was silly, but I wanted to derphammer it just because so many people said that it wouldn't happen. The moment has passed, and I'm trying to be reasonable.
Galzria is making arguments about drunkenness being scumtells or something like that. I'm having trouble following. But I don't like. FoS: Galzria
Voltgloss, it seems that what you're doing is just trying to prod people into not lurking. Don't worry, I'm no lurker. But if you're gonna FoS people everytime they log on without commenting, you're gonna get a lot of useless reads.
Now ignore derphammer thing. Read again. Reeks scum.
Archetype - post too rigid. Dunno.
Vote: Insomniac
We definitely need a definite, all agreed, one-in-all, chicken talk post.
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Also, in MXII, I claim only not to read stuff while under. No bad play due to drunkness in this game.
typo. Should read:
"Also, in MXII, I claimed only not to have read stuff [Cuzz's claim] while under. I claimed no bad play due to being drunk in this game.
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Also, caveat (what does this word mean anyway?):
My new meta says me lurking = scum, so I'll have to post like mad this game not to get lynched.
Ummm...to hide that you are scum? That just sounded bad.
Survivalism isn't necessarily a scum tell (it's in every factions wincon to prefer living), but yeah..
I don't care if I live or die. I care that town wins.
Word, this is how I play too. Except town-Galz staying alive is usually very helpful for town, so I care if town-Galz dies.
Scumslip? How do you know Galz is town?
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What i'm emphasizing is that I'm not for saving Galz categorically; but if Galz is town, I want him around.
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Well after such a quick start I was thinking there would be more activity and more to respond to while being around... but it appears that isn't the case
You won't be seeing much of me until tomorrow evening once again and even then it might be slim. I have a blood bank test Friday--I also have one tomorrow, but am totally prepared for that one!
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Also, Advance info.
Whether I am VT or PR or even scum (gasp! but I ain't), I am not going to forceclaim this game. I will only claim with significant info.
I mean, Grujah just won a game as scum (I forget which one) in part because he did forceclaim. Not sure what to make of this either.
I claimed only cause not claiming as scum in unmentionable game got me killed.
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Vote for Chicken Master Position: Robz888 (not an actual vote)
(This means I want Robz to be the one who makes Chicken talk rules. Too many cooks spoil the broth, they say, so I think only one guy should do it (he might ask for input if necessary). Robz can, of course, decline this position.).
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Insom, on you I'm echoing Frisk. You're taking obvious joke posts like they're serious. You seem like you're trying to push reads you ought to know are bogus.
To further take this you have seen me as scum recently, I don't push bad cases, I stand against bad cases while pushing good/ok ones which is I guess something I'm also doing here
Also, this.
"This is how I play as scum, so when I don't play like that this game [now or in future], you should realize I am not scum".
So bad.
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We do need to make sure we establish a form of chicken communication for everyone... none of this one person doing one thing and another doing the other--that just reeks of confusion down the line. Someone come up with something, everyone agree to it and stick with it! No deviating from it. Period! We have a little over 2 days to come up with a system? We need one by tomorrow at this time.
We definitely need a definite, all agreed, one-in-all, chicken talk post.
I agree, and I think the basic x1 Chicken for yes, x2 Chicken for no system ashersky made seems like the best way to do this.
Chickenvote: Cuzz
chicken
Chicken Unvote.
Even though I am suspicious of Sharaeye, I like his system that he posted.
1.Go down the list of players
2. 'Vote' for them
3. Chicken once for scum read, chicken twice for no scum read (maybe 3x Chicken for null read?)
4. Immediately unvote that player
5. Rinse and repeat
6. Profit!
'cause I got duties. Today I had to teach, then plan lessons, then go to seminars, then drive people places. I often have to do things in real life, and don't have time to post all my thoughts. Sometimes I've got the tab up and sometimes I don't. Sometimes I'll post thoughts, sometimes I won't.
The wagon was silly, but I wanted to derphammer it just because so many people said that it wouldn't happen. The moment has passed, and I'm trying to be reasonable.
Galzria is making arguments about drunkenness being scumtells or something like that. I'm having trouble following. But I don't like. FoS: Galzria
Voltgloss, it seems that what you're doing is just trying to prod people into not lurking. Don't worry, I'm no lurker. But if you're gonna FoS people everytime they log on without commenting, you're gonna get a lot of useless reads.
I agree with Grujah, not exactly about the 'scum team' he made, but his Shraeye accusation. I did a brief reread of Shraeye's posts, though most seemed more town than scum, the post above me stuck out.
This sentence in particular: "Sometimes I'll post thoughts, sometimes I won't." When wouldn't you? IRL situations causing you not to, or...?"
I hope I don't come off too roughly, Shraeye. I'm just looking for some explanations.
PPE: Seems like there were 3 new posts. I'll have to read those and see if anything is anything important.
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Vote for Chicken Master Position: Robz888 (not an actual vote)
(This means I want Robz to be the one who makes Chicken talk rules. Too many cooks spoil the broth, they say, so I think only one guy should do it (he might ask for input if necessary). Robz can, of course, decline this position.).
Why Robz?
Gut Town feeling?
I do agree we should only have one Chicken post coordinator.
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Well, cuz he's Robz. You know, the Mafia Guy.
Though, Volt might be a better candidate, he likes to be guy in charge setting up the rules. Perfect for him.
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Just caught up.
Also, caveat (what does this word mean anyway?):
My new meta says me lurking = scum, so I'll have to post like mad this game not to get lynched.
Biggest scumslip ever?
As for chickenstuff, I already laid out my plan for roleclaiming as a chicken. A 12 Chicken sequence begins the roleclaim protocol, followed by a number of chickens that corresponds to your role, indexed to the listed role order.
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Just caught up.
Also, caveat (what does this word mean anyway?):
My new meta says me lurking = scum, so I'll have to post like mad this game not to get lynched.
Biggest scumslip ever?
As for chickenstuff, I already laid out my plan for roleclaiming as a chicken. A 12 Chicken sequence begins the roleclaim protocol, followed by a number of chickens that corresponds to your role, indexed to the listed role order.
No. If I lurk, town or scum, I'll be prime lynch candidate. I don't want town to misslynch me.
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Just caught up.
Also, caveat (what does this word mean anyway?):
My new meta says me lurking = scum, so I'll have to post like mad this game not to get lynched.
Biggest scumslip ever?
As for chickenstuff, I already laid out my plan for roleclaiming as a chicken. A 12 Chicken sequence begins the roleclaim protocol, followed by a number of chickens that corresponds to your role, indexed to the listed role order.
No. If I lurk, town or scum, I'll be prime lynch candidate. I don't want town to misslynch me.
I mean, do you disagree with your meta? I actually wanted to talk to you about this. You were so active and helpful in MIX, and also in MVI to an extent. In MXII, you barely posted at all.
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It was influenced both by being scum and some real-life stuff (Like, I didn't lie about getting a tempjob or RtR pre-release - especially RtR took away loads of time). I could/should have posted more/squeezed some posts in, though.
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'cause I got duties. Today I had to teach, then plan lessons, then go to seminars, then drive people places. I often have to do things in real life, and don't have time to post all my thoughts. Sometimes I've got the tab up and sometimes I don't. Sometimes I'll post thoughts, sometimes I won't.
The wagon was silly, but I wanted to derphammer it just because so many people said that it wouldn't happen. The moment has passed, and I'm trying to be reasonable.
Galzria is making arguments about drunkenness being scumtells or something like that. I'm having trouble following. But I don't like. FoS: Galzria
Voltgloss, it seems that what you're doing is just trying to prod people into not lurking. Don't worry, I'm no lurker. But if you're gonna FoS people everytime they log on without commenting, you're gonna get a lot of useless reads.
I agree with Grujah, not exactly about the 'scum team' he made, but his Shraeye accusation. I did a brief reread of Shraeye's posts, though most seemed more town than scum, the post above me stuck out.
This sentence in particular: "Sometimes I'll post thoughts, sometimes I won't." When wouldn't you? IRL situations causing you not to, or...?"
I hope I don't come off too roughly, Shraeye. I'm just looking for some explanations.
I have a lot of thoughts. Some are conspiracy theory-type thoughts that are crazy long-shots to explain confusing situations, some are insta-thoughts that come much more from emotions than rationalism (like assuming that somebody with a town read on me is right, and anyone pushing a case on me is scum), some are simply absurd thoughts that I think about for a moment, realize they're absurd, and discard. We all do this. And what? I'm scummy because I said it outloud? When I have important thoughts, I post those.
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'cause I got duties. Today I had to teach, then plan lessons, then go to seminars, then drive people places. I often have to do things in real life, and don't have time to post all my thoughts. Sometimes I've got the tab up and sometimes I don't. Sometimes I'll post thoughts, sometimes I won't.
The wagon was silly, but I wanted to derphammer it just because so many people said that it wouldn't happen. The moment has passed, and I'm trying to be reasonable.
Galzria is making arguments about drunkenness being scumtells or something like that. I'm having trouble following. But I don't like. FoS: Galzria
Voltgloss, it seems that what you're doing is just trying to prod people into not lurking. Don't worry, I'm no lurker. But if you're gonna FoS people everytime they log on without commenting, you're gonna get a lot of useless reads.
I agree with Grujah, not exactly about the 'scum team' he made, but his Shraeye accusation. I did a brief reread of Shraeye's posts, though most seemed more town than scum, the post above me stuck out.
This sentence in particular: "Sometimes I'll post thoughts, sometimes I won't." When wouldn't you? IRL situations causing you not to, or...?"
I hope I don't come off too roughly, Shraeye. I'm just looking for some explanations.
I have a lot of thoughts. Some are conspiracy theory-type thoughts that are crazy long-shots to explain confusing situations, some are insta-thoughts that come much more from emotions than rationalism (like assuming that somebody with a town read on me is right, and anyone pushing a case on me is scum), some are simply absurd thoughts that I think about for a moment, realize they're absurd, and discard. We all do this. And what? I'm scummy because I said it outloud? When I have important thoughts, I post those.
Thanks for the explanation. I'll Unvote.
(on mobile, last post until mid afternoon tommorow)
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Unvote: Grujah
I don't think his "if I lurk I'll get lynched" (paraphrased) comment was a scumslip. I think it was stating a fact, whether he's town OR scum.
Vote: Eevee
I'd like Eevee to explain why he felt the need to publicly call the votes on Grujah (including, by extension, his own) merely "pressure" votes. I don't see how that comment helps town.
Here's a thought for everyone: Should we try to lynch someone by the end of the third (RL) day? And that way avoid the whole chicken-curse thing entirely?
FYI all, my wife and I go to the hospital this morning for inducement of the birth of my third child, so my posting access will be (1) limited to phone for the rest of the day and (2) rather infrequent. Wish us luck!
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Unvote: Grujah
I don't think his "if I lurk I'll get lynched" (paraphrased) comment was a scumslip. I think it was stating a fact, whether he's town OR scum.
Vote: Eevee
I'd like Eevee to explain why he felt the need to publicly call the votes on Grujah (including, by extension, his own) merely "pressure" votes. I don't see how that comment helps town.
Here's a thought for everyone: Should we try to lynch someone by the end of the third (RL) day? And that way avoid the whole chicken-curse thing entirely?
FYI all, my wife and I go to the hospital this morning for inducement of the birth of my third child, so my posting access will be (1) limited to phone for the rest of the day and (2) rather infrequent. Wish us luck!
Giving birth is obvtown! Good luck and congrats!
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Good luck!
I didn't mean to call it merely a pressure vote, if I gave that vibe it was a mistake or poor wording on my part. However, the entire case against Grujah was that he had logged in to the forums once without posting anything when the game had been on for five hours. You are all good players, but I still felt a need to warn to not get carried away. Maybe I was being overly cautious.
Volt is acting rather jumpy in this game, but might be because of rral life stress or something. Just something that has stood out to me twice now.
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Volt is acting rather jumpy in this game, but might be because of rral life stress or something. Just something that has stood out to me twice now.
If by "jumpy" you mean "trying to move things quickly," guilty as charged. We have very little time. I don't want a repeat of MVIII nolynches. And its only going to get tougher when people turn into chickens.
In this game, more than any other to date, dragging things out is bad for town.
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Volt is acting rather jumpy in this game, but might be because of rral life stress or something. Just something that has stood out to me twice now.
If by "jumpy" you mean "trying to move things quickly," guilty as charged. We have very little time. I don't want a repeat of MVIII nolynches. And its only going to get tougher when people turn into chickens.
In this game, more than any other to date, dragging things out is bad for town.
Agreed obviously, I said this earlier too. Busy now, but I can go back to find the quotes that seemed off-characted when I get back in 2-3 hours (floorball training yay).
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Just caught up.
Also, caveat (what does this word mean anyway?):
My new meta says me lurking = scum, so I'll have to post like mad this game not to get lynched.
Biggest scumslip ever?
As for chickenstuff, I already laid out my plan for roleclaiming as a chicken. A 12 Chicken sequence begins the roleclaim protocol, followed by a number of chickens that corresponds to your role, indexed to the listed role order.
No. If I lurk, town or scum, I'll be prime lynch candidate. I don't want town to misslynch me.
I mean, do you disagree with your meta? I actually wanted to talk to you about this. You were so active and helpful in MIX, and also in MVI to an extent. In MXII, you barely posted at all.
More on this. I have the most Town-friendly meta. I crumb often, I will not forceclaim in thigh situations like L-1 (I believe this benifts me more as town player), and I do not lurk as town. All these make me a great townie and not so great scum.
And to elaborate that "no force claim" thing. I might claim on an agreed massclaim. I won't be made to claim if I don't think it bring benefit just because I am in a though situation (L-1 most of the time) and claim is perceived as only way out.
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Here's a thought for everyone: Should we try to lynch someone by the end of the third (RL) day? And that way avoid the whole chicken-curse thing entirely?
Now, just cuz I gave Eevee free pass on similar statemnet doesn't mean you shoud now go around saying stuff like these. +1 scum point for you.
Of course not. We gonna get in chicken-situation often, we need a practice.
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Now, just cuz I gave Eevee free pass on similar statemnet doesn't mean you shoud now go around saying stuff like these. +1 scum point for you.
Of course not. We gonna get in chicken-situation often, we need a practice.
Scumslip? If we did lynch everyday, pre 3rd day, like Voltgloss said, we would never need to 'pratice'.
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We'd also never have to even deal with the chickens at which could save us the headache.
But it would make the Cutpurse player just a regular Fishing Village
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Now, just cuz I gave Eevee free pass on similar statemnet doesn't mean you shoud now go around saying stuff like these. +1 scum point for you.
Of course not. We gonna get in chicken-situation often, we need a practice.
Scumslip? If we did lynch everyday, pre 3rd day, like Voltgloss said, we would never need to 'pratice'.
We're working on a record for scumslips this game. I really don't think this is one. I also am not sure it's a great idea to try to artificially turn this into a semi-blitz game with 3 day days.
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Arch seems to be judging too much by semantics rather than content. Seems like classic rookie mistake. Phone post.
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Vote: Voltgloss
Attempting to avoid chicken curse reduces information.
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Fos all still on my wagon, if any. They be tryin to use my mxii notoriety
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Vote: Voltgloss
Attempting to avoid chicken curse reduces information.
Frisk, I think you're technically right, but in practice... no, I don't trust us to solve the WIFOM that will result from the chickening. So I see why Volt would ask that, and I don't find it suspicious.
My suspicion of Grujah isn't exactly abating as he posts more, but I have to be conscious of the fact that I seem to have massive confirmation bias against my first Day 1 read (see PPS in M-XII, Morgrim in M-X).
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Now, Eevee and Insomniac both went out of their way to argue against the growing Grujah wagon. They both did this against the Day 1 PPS wagon, too. Guess they just don't like quick wagons. (I DO like quick wagons; it puts fear into the hearts of scum.) OF course, Insomniac was mafia that time.
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Vote: Voltgloss
Attempting to avoid chicken curse reduces information.
Frisk, I think you're technically right, but in practice... no, I don't trust us to solve the WIFOM that will result from the chickening. So I see why Volt would ask that, and I don't find it suspicious.
My suspicion of Grujah isn't exactly abating as he posts more, but I have to be conscious of the fact that I seem to have massive confirmation bias against my first Day 1 read (see PPS in M-XII, Morgrim in M-X).
Oh, I agree that there will be some wifoming, but I think that we can survive the chickening, and we'll have some additional data points. Whether or not we can make use of them... unknown.
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@Robz - I think you just really like leading the town lynch.
@Grujah - You sir are ridiculous this game. Hai guys found the team on day 1 herp a derp. Also I don't know who's still voting for me but your so scummmmmmmy.
FoS: Archetype I like that you agree with my read but complimenting my reads is one of the best ways to buddy up to me and I'm trying to be aware of the accusation that I tunnel on people whom accuse me and let slide people who don't
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Now, Eevee and Insomniac both went out of their way to argue against the growing Grujah wagon. They both did this against the Day 1 PPS wagon, too. Guess they just don't like quick wagons. (I DO like quick wagons; it puts fear into the hearts of scum.) OF course, Insomniac was mafia that time.
Okay what? I think I'm still ON the Grujah-wagon and I heavily argued AGAINST Insomniac opposing it.
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Yeah, nm what I said about Eevee. Volt's vote explanation, I thought, implied Eevee had some beef against the Grujah wagon. I see now he didn't:
Insomniac, why are you assuming the players are not playing reasonable here? It's like being afraid of giving a consenting adult a pair of scissors in the fear of him cutting himself with them.
WHAT HARM DOES THE L-2 DO IF NO TOWNIE IS WILLING TO DO SOMETHING AS OBVIOUSLY ANTITOWN AS QUICKHAMMERING 5 HOURS INTO THE GAME? None. It just gives us more to analyze.
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Vote: Voltgloss
Attempting to avoid chicken curse reduces information.
I think the chicken curse is more likely to just provide MISinformation.
it's half random and half controlled by scum. Those are not reliable sources of information.
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Vote Count 1.3:
Robz888 (1): Cuzz
Captain_Frisk (1): shraeye
Grujah (2): Robz888, Eevee
Insomniac (1): Grujah
Eevee (2): jotheonah, Voltgloss
shraeye (1): Insomniac
Voltgloss (1): Captain_Frisk
Not voting (4): yuma, ashersky, Galzria, Archetype
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Currently Cursed: No one
Curse deadline: Saturday Oct 20, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
Lynch deadline: Tuesday Oct 23, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
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Vote: Voltgloss
Attempting to avoid chicken curse reduces information.
I think the chicken curse is more likely to just provide MISinformation.
it's half random and half controlled by scum. Those are not reliable sources of information.
It's still a data point. We can choose to ignore it if we want. Now - if we have a great idea for a lynch today? Then lets go for it.
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Well this game has slowed to a crawl lets do a lurker check shall we! These counts do not include pregame
shraeye - 14
Robz888 - 12
Voltgloss - 21
Eevee - 23
yuma - 2
Galzria - 20
Insomniac - 37 (includes this post)
ashersky - 5
Captain_Frisk - 34
Grujah - 21
Archetype - 6
jotheonah - 4
Cuzz - 14
So I'm gonna give yuma and jo a pass (V/LA thread work claim and new job claim respectively) which puts me at voting for the 3rd most lurker.
Vote: ashersky
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Well this game has slowed to a crawl lets do a lurker check shall we! These counts do not include pregame
shraeye - 14
Robz888 - 12
Voltgloss - 21
Eevee - 23
yuma - 2
Galzria - 20
Insomniac - 37 (includes this post)
ashersky - 5
Captain_Frisk - 34
Grujah - 21
Archetype - 6
jotheonah - 4
Cuzz - 14
So I'm gonna give yuma and jo a pass (V/LA thread work claim and new job claim respectively) which puts me at voting for the 3rd most lurker.
Vote: ashersky
I can so get behind this. I am now all for lynching lurkers brutally and indiscriminately.
But I'm not sure how much of a pass yuma should get though. He showed up last night briefly to mention he won't be active during the daytime, which is one thing, and is fine, but then he says very little about the day's events and signs off while complaining that the activity has died down since the afternoon. The thread doesn't have to be "active" right at that moment to contribute to the game.
Not sure how to feel about jo. He might have just been really busy all day, but it seemed yuma was around but silent for a while.
So I'll go with a Fos: yuma, Vote: ashersky.
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Lynch all lurkers. Vote: ashersky
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@Grujah - You sir are ridiculous this game. Hai guys found the team on day 1 herp a derp. Also I don't know who's still voting for me but your so scummmmmmmy.
You seem to be overly upset over what is obviously not a serious statement. OF course I don't really think that I have caught 3 scum D1, one RL day in.
@Chicken - some suggestions. Long stream of Chickens in one sentence means to take note of post with that number.
Also, do not, ever, do chicken posts that mean nothing (like, just to say chicken.) .
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You know what, I think I'm with Volt after all in wanting to end the day before the chickens come home to roost.
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Not having one guy participate for a while isn't THAT bad. I again vote for a simple code that only has yes, no, something else and scumreads posted as chickenvotes in it.
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I'm also in 3 games and the other two are demanding my attention quite a bit more than this one, FWIW.
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Lynch all lurkers. Vote: ashersky
Vote: Robz
That felt really disingenuous. I think we need to be wary that not ALL scum are lurkers, and that not all infrequent posting is lurking. Furthermore, I think we need to be careful to note that certain people, like myself or Robz, can choose how frequent our posting patterns are, regardless of our alignment. I'm especially wary (personally) of people (scum) using the policy as a backbone to their votes.
However, all that said, I've championed LaL, so FoS: Ashersky. But his "lurking" is not as scummy as Robz vote felt. Ash needs to come talk to us though. So does Arch.
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Also what in the world? I've posted more than Robz?
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Lynch all lurkers. Vote: ashersky
Vote: Robz
That felt really disingenuous. I think we need to be wary that not ALL scum are lurkers, and that not all infrequent posting is lurking. Furthermore, I think we need to be careful to note that certain people, like myself or Robz, can choose how frequent our posting patterns are, regardless of our alignment. I'm especially wary (personally) of people (scum) using the policy as a backbone to their votes.
Sorry, I'm following a literal lynch all lurkers policy. If you had let drunk-double-doctor-with-50-posts-the-entire-game-Grujah win, you would too.
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Lynch all lurkers. Vote: ashersky
Vote: Robz
That felt really disingenuous. I think we need to be wary that not ALL scum are lurkers, and that not all infrequent posting is lurking. Furthermore, I think we need to be careful to note that certain people, like myself or Robz, can choose how frequent our posting patterns are, regardless of our alignment. I'm especially wary (personally) of people (scum) using the policy as a backbone to their votes.
Sorry, I'm following a literal lynch all lurkers policy. If you had let drunk-double-doctor-with-50-posts-the-entire-game-Grujah win, you would too.
Vote: RobZ - Blindly following the "lynch PPS" claim is what lost us that game.
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Lynch all lurkers. Vote: ashersky
Vote: Robz
That felt really disingenuous. I think we need to be wary that not ALL scum are lurkers, and that not all infrequent posting is lurking. Furthermore, I think we need to be careful to note that certain people, like myself or Robz, can choose how frequent our posting patterns are, regardless of our alignment. I'm especially wary (personally) of people (scum) using the policy as a backbone to their votes.
Sorry, I'm following a literal lynch all lurkers policy. If you had let drunk-double-doctor-with-50-posts-the-entire-game-Grujah win, you would too.
Vote: RobZ - Blindly following the "lynch PPS" claim is what lost us that game.
Absolutely, absolutely not. No one thing lost us that game, but failure to lynch lurkers lost us the game more than lynching PPS. I had good reason to lynch PPS, and it was a fine Day 1, as far as Day 1's go. Also, you agreed with me about it in the after discussion for M-XII! Why the change of heart? Different alignment now?
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Lynch all lurkers. Vote: ashersky
Vote: Robz
That felt really disingenuous. I think we need to be wary that not ALL scum are lurkers, and that not all infrequent posting is lurking. Furthermore, I think we need to be careful to note that certain people, like myself or Robz, can choose how frequent our posting patterns are, regardless of our alignment. I'm especially wary (personally) of people (scum) using the policy as a backbone to their votes.
Sorry, I'm following a literal lynch all lurkers policy. If you had let drunk-double-doctor-with-50-posts-the-entire-game-Grujah win, you would too.
Disregarding anything I might've ever said in the QT to that game:
Nope, I wouldn't have ever let that happen. :P
However, that's partially my point. You can't take it as a flatline literal policy. If there are 5 people playing, A, B, C, D and E, and their post spread is 500, 450, 425, 425, 300 respectively, then player E is by definition "lurking", as he's 120 posts under the "average", but I don't think voting him for "lurking" would be fair. His contributions are 1/7th the total in a game of 5. He's not pulling his weight, sure, but it's not excessive.
My point is that I agree with the policy, when the policy makes sense. The votes on Grujah yesterday made sense to me because he's an evil, lurking scum. As soon as he joined the game in earnest, I unvoted (even if he's still evil scum >:-[ ). I don't think your vote on Ash however, was as genuine, and I don't think it makes as much sense, especially RL D2 of the game. Let's look back in 3-4 days at post count and see how it stands. Right now, post count voting seems a little irrelevant to me.
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Lynch all lurkers. Vote: ashersky
Vote: Robz
That felt really disingenuous. I think we need to be wary that not ALL scum are lurkers, and that not all infrequent posting is lurking. Furthermore, I think we need to be careful to note that certain people, like myself or Robz, can choose how frequent our posting patterns are, regardless of our alignment. I'm especially wary (personally) of people (scum) using the policy as a backbone to their votes.
Sorry, I'm following a literal lynch all lurkers policy. If you had let drunk-double-doctor-with-50-posts-the-entire-game-Grujah win, you would too.
Vote: RobZ - Blindly following the "lynch PPS" claim is what lost us that game.
The point is the distinction between ill-advised anti-townness and lurking. Lynching pps was a mistake but part of the lesson from that game was that lurking is a scumtell and good lord FoS myself for defending Robz.
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Voting people solely based on post counts has got to be more anti-town than PPS's claim was in wafflegame.
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Lynch all lurkers. Vote: ashersky
Vote: Robz
That felt really disingenuous. I think we need to be wary that not ALL scum are lurkers, and that not all infrequent posting is lurking. Furthermore, I think we need to be careful to note that certain people, like myself or Robz, can choose how frequent our posting patterns are, regardless of our alignment. I'm especially wary (personally) of people (scum) using the policy as a backbone to their votes.
Sorry, I'm following a literal lynch all lurkers policy. If you had let drunk-double-doctor-with-50-posts-the-entire-game-Grujah win, you would too.
Vote: RobZ - Blindly following the "lynch PPS" claim is what lost us that game.
Absolutely, absolutely not. No one thing lost us that game, but failure to lynch lurkers lost us the game more than lynching PPS. I had good reason to lynch PPS, and it was a fine Day 1, as far as Day 1's go. Also, you agreed with me about it in the after discussion for M-XII! Why the change of heart? Different alignment now?
Oh - I still would lynch him again, and love it - but that would be playing for the future. However, blindly following one policy drastically reduces the information available to analyze. You don't need to come up with a reason - because its policy.
Oh - and to your question - same alignment.
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Well this game has slowed to a crawl lets do a lurker check shall we! These counts do not include pregame
shraeye - 14
Robz888 - 12
Voltgloss - 21
Eevee - 23
yuma - 2
Galzria - 20
Insomniac - 37 (includes this post)
ashersky - 5
Captain_Frisk - 34
Grujah - 21
Archetype - 6
jotheonah - 4
Cuzz - 14
So I'm gonna give yuma and jo a pass (V/LA thread work claim and new job claim respectively) which puts me at voting for the 3rd most lurker.
Vote: ashersky
It seems a bit early to classify people as lurking or not, but it's much better than pushing this policy majorly 5 hours into the game. I'm fine with
Vote: ashersky
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Voting people solely based on post counts has got to be more anti-town than PPS's claim was in wafflegame.
But announcing "pressure votes" is ok, right Eevee?
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Jorbles, can you Chicken Unvote even if your vote in not on anybody?
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Voting people solely based on post counts has got to be more anti-town than PPS's claim was in wafflegame.
But announcing "pressure votes" is ok, right Eevee?
Yeah, Eevee tends to announce pressure votes frequently. As I recall he may have done this in other games as well. That really takes the pressure out of them. I don't like that tactic of his.
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Voting people solely based on post counts has got to be more anti-town than PPS's claim was in wafflegame.
But announcing "pressure votes" is ok, right Eevee?
I already said it isn't. If my vote came off like that, it was bad play on my part. Although we were voting him for not being around yet, so it's not like it wasn't obvious to him what he needs to do to get people off his back.
I do not understand Frisk's jihad against PPS's claim. What he did wasn't intentionally antitown, he played to his wincon, just made a mistake / stupid play. We should policylynch everyone who plays bad? Like ashersky in mafia X for forgetting the setup for a while?
For me personally O's derphammer day1 was much much more annoying.
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Voting people solely based on post counts has got to be more anti-town than PPS's claim was in wafflegame.
But announcing "pressure votes" is ok, right Eevee?
Yeah, Eevee tends to announce pressure votes frequently. As I recall he may have done this in other games as well. That really takes the pressure out of them. I don't like that tactic of his.
I don't mind him announcing pressure except when it comes with (thats enough pressure for now!)
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Voting people solely based on post counts has got to be more anti-town than PPS's claim was in wafflegame.
But announcing "pressure votes" is ok, right Eevee?
Yeah, Eevee tends to announce pressure votes frequently. As I recall he may have done this in other games as well. That really takes the pressure out of them. I don't like that tactic of his.
I commented on this earlier, admitted it's not good. I just feel dirty voting without offering any explanation, and in my head I'm thinking "I want to see how he reacts to pressure". Shouldn't say it out loud, lesson learned! Hope I don't become the day1 lynch now because people who make mistakes are obviously scum and if not, they should be policylynched for making a mistake regardless..apparently.
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My jihad (nice word btw) against the PPS claim is that he's too good to do such stupid crap. Ash was a new player, who didn't quite grasp the situation with ~30 minutes to deadline. Ash gets a n00b pass. After PPS SCHOOLED ME in M7 - he does not.
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Voting people solely based on post counts has got to be more anti-town than PPS's claim was in wafflegame.
But announcing "pressure votes" is ok, right Eevee?
Yeah, Eevee tends to announce pressure votes frequently. As I recall he may have done this in other games as well. That really takes the pressure out of them. I don't like that tactic of his.
I don't mind him announcing pressure except when it comes with (thats enough pressure for now!)
Yeah.. especially because it wasn't, I think there would have been no harm in letting it to go to L-1 even. Hopefully I learned from this, I honestly didn't give that post a whole lot of thought. No permanent harm done hopefully.
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My jihad (nice word btw) against the PPS claim is that he's too good to do such stupid crap. Ash was a new player, who didn't quite grasp the situation with ~30 minutes to deadline. Ash gets a n00b pass. After PPS SCHOOLED ME in M7 - he does not.
So you think PPS was secretly working with the mafia or what?
Oh and you seem to be forgetting what PPS did in Joth's bastard mafia. I think the thing you are accusing him of is not worth policylynching, and also that the accusations are pretty baseless. Should be obvious after joth's game and seeing his flip in wafflegame.
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Hey scums, why so quiet?
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Kickball.
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Quick post before baby comes soon.
Ash hasn't been on the forum since immediately after his last post. Not sure that's the kind of lurking that's most scummy. Most scummy lurking is hanging around, reading thread, and yet not contributing.
Am concerned at least one scum has decided to follow an unwavering lynch all lurkers policy to avoid responsibility for his vote. Not sure who yet.
Unvote. Hate Eevee's pressure vote comment but it and his response are consistent with his town behavior. He'd do it as scum too. Nullread.
Query to those voting ashersky: would you be just as comfortable voting Archetype?
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Am concerned at least one scum has decided to follow an unwavering lynch all lurkers policy to avoid responsibility for his vote. Not sure who yet.
I am more concerned that some clever scum decided to pursue a "it's scummy to militantly hate on lurkers" policy.
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Jorbles, can you Chicken Unvote even if your vote in not on anybody?
Yes.
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Jorbles, can you Chicken Unvote even if your vote in not on anybody?
Yes.
I think this solves the "how to talk about people who are at L-1," no?
@Volt, I'd probably be just as happy with my vote on Archetype. For some reason he's seemed a bit more visible to me than ashersky, but I just rechecked Insomniac's count and he really only has one more post than ashersky.
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And congrats!
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Query to those voting ashersky: would you be just as comfortable voting Archetype?
No, it's not about postcount. That's silliness. Look at their actual posts. Ashersky's were mostly one-liners and fluff. Archetype has put thought into his posts and engaged me. He's contributed much more than ashersky, regardless of the number of posts either has had.
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Am concerned at least one scum has decided to follow an unwavering lynch all lurkers policy to avoid responsibility for his vote. Not sure who yet.
I am more concerned that some clever scum decided to pursue a "it's scummy to militantly hate on lurkers" policy.
With three scum, I wouldn't be surprised if BOTH you and I are correct.
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Query to those voting ashersky: would you be just as comfortable voting Archetype?
No, it's not about postcount. That's silliness. Look at their actual posts. Ashersky's were mostly one-liners and fluff. Archetype has put thought into his posts and engaged me. He's contributed much more than ashersky, regardless of the number of posts either has had.
Yeah I went back and reread, and I mostly agree with this.
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Query to those voting ashersky: would you be just as comfortable voting Archetype?
No, it's not about postcount. That's silliness. Look at their actual posts. Ashersky's were mostly one-liners and fluff. Archetype has put thought into his posts and engaged me. He's contributed much more than ashersky, regardless of the number of posts either has had.
Yeah I went back and reread, and I mostly agree with this.
I disagree. I commented on the "how do we talk as chickens" issue, which I think was important.
Also, my time zone is way off from the rest, and as Volt pointed out, I wasn't lurking, I was sleeping. For everyone's info, if you don't know, I'm in Australia. So I'm a gazillion hours ahead of the U.S., where forum time is, and a million hours ahead of Europe, where the rest of you are. So I'll state my belief that "lurking" means reading/following without posting, where as not being online can't be "lurking" since you aren't around to lurk.
With that out there, I will say I agree that number of posts aren't as indiciative as info within posts. I'm also intrigued with the idea of self-imposing three-day deadlines so we don't have to deal with chickens, but it seems to go against the spirit of the Mod's game, and possibly anti-town by shutting down our ability to discuss. I'd lean toward no deadlines like that, I think.
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Query to those voting ashersky: would you be just as comfortable voting Archetype?
No, it's not about postcount. That's silliness. Look at their actual posts. Ashersky's were mostly one-liners and fluff. Archetype has put thought into his posts and engaged me. He's contributed much more than ashersky, regardless of the number of posts either has had.
Now this; this is a more compelling argument than just voting for the lowest postcount. And on reread, I think shraeye's correct.
vote: ashersky
FoS: those who voted ashersky based SOLELY on post count.
PPE: and now ash posted. Haven't read his post yet.
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About to do a complete reread--I like that I can still do that in this game compared to another behemoth sized game that I won't mentioned aside from calling it behemoth--but one thing I will say about ending this day early to avoid chickens...
I am not necessarily in favor of ending the day early, but not because I think we can get a lot of data from who is cursed, I think we will get some, but probably not enough to make a significant difference. However, if we do end early that is extra time that provides an opportunity for further discussion from town members and further opportunities for scum to slip or contradict or something... Ending the day early just for the sake of ending it early cuts the amount of content we have to analyze the next day. Now I am not suggesting we purposefully extend the day. No, if we have a good lynch opportunity we should take it. Ideally for me, in a, what is this, a six day game would be to have the lynch occur somewhere in day 4 or so. Early enough that we aren't up against a deadline, but not so soon that we are rushing into things.
I'll be back later with more comments
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Baby arrived, woo!
Will likely be posting next rather later this evening. I've got a son to hug.
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Baby arrived, woo!
Will likely be posting next rather later this evening. I've got a son to hug.
Whoo! Congrats!
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To answer Insom's FoS: Not trying to buddy up, just complimenting you on your ability to catch scum. I never really did in ZM2 and thought I'd do it.
In every game I've played (well, 3) I've thought lynching lurkers was a bad idea. A lurker isn't mafia as much as a frequent poster could be. Now if someone just posts jokes or never posts anything that could help the town, then yeah, it's usually a good idea to lynch them.
Still think the ChickenVote Scum read system with: Chicken once for yes scum, twice for no scum, thrice (love that word) for null is going to be the best way to communicate.
I think any other 'Chickens' people post in front of their words would overly confuse things.
PPE: Seems like yuma just posted.
ooo Voltgloss too!
ugh and Galz, gotta hurry and post this
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Baby arrived, woo!
Will likely be posting next rather later this evening. I've got a son to hug.
Congratulations!
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Baby arrived, woo!
Will likely be posting next rather later this evening. I've got a son to hug.
Whoo! Congrats!
Congrats!
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About to do a complete reread--I like that I can still do that in this game compared to another behemoth sized game that I won't mentioned aside from calling it behemoth--but one thing I will say about ending this day early to avoid chickens...
I am not necessarily in favor of ending the day early, but not because I think we can get a lot of data from who is cursed, I think we will get some, but probably not enough to make a significant difference. However, if we do end early that is extra time that provides an opportunity for further discussion from town members and further opportunities for scum to slip or contradict or something... Ending the day early just for the sake of ending it early cuts the amount of content we have to analyze the next day. Now I am not suggesting we purposefully extend the day. No, if we have a good lynch opportunity we should take it. Ideally for me, in a, what is this, a six day game would be to have the lynch occur somewhere in day 4 or so. Early enough that we aren't up against a deadline, but not so soon that we are rushing into things.
I'll be back later with more comments
Agree that being able to re-read is nice, compared to the behemoth.
Just completed the re-read of posts since my last post. A few posts that stick out:
Grujah's "I have the most towny meta" seemed a bit far-fetched, but I'm not reading any scumminess in his posts, so maybe he's right? Robz remains suspicious of Grujah, although he's focused on lurkers now.
Further on the discussion of trying to lynch before we get to chickens: VG and Robz seemed the most vocally supportive of the idea, CF the most opposed. I've mentioned I think we cut off opportunity for town discussion if we hurry to end days due to the new mechanic. So Frisk reads townier there.
FOS: Shraeye for popping in to plant the lurker vote after not posting for awhile and offering nothing else. This after his odd "I have thoughts but don't share them" thing.
Insom is reading scummy to me, partly from his response to Gruj, and partly from starting the whole "let's count posts and vote on that, but wait let me give two people a pass thing." Obviously, there's probably some OMGUS in there that can't be discounted, since he just settled on me.
PPE Baby -- Congratulations! Welcome to fatherhood (if your first)!
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Baby arrived, woo!
Will likely be posting next rather later this evening. I've got a son to hug.
Congrats!
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All too soon Frisk jr. And Volt jr. And Davio jr. Will be here schooling us all. Enjoy the baby years men!
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I disagree. I commented on the "how do we talk as chickens" issue, which I think was important.
Also, my time zone is way off from the rest, and as Volt pointed out, I wasn't lurking, I was sleeping. For everyone's info, if you don't know, I'm in Australia. So I'm a gazillion hours ahead of the U.S., where forum time is, and a million hours ahead of Europe, where the rest of you are. So I'll state my belief that "lurking" means reading/following without posting, where as not being online can't be "lurking" since you aren't around to lurk.
Yes, you did agree with the yes/no method of saying chicken. While important, I feel that that is very minimal content that either scum or town could easily post. Engaging other players is less lurkerish than agreeing to systems.
Also, I understand the time difference, and don't fault you for sleeping. Sleep is good.
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Baby arrived, woo!
Will likely be posting next rather later this evening. I've got a son to hug.
Congrats! And seriously, lurk all you want for a while. We'll make an exception here.
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Baby arrived, woo!
Will likely be posting next rather later this evening. I've got a son to hug.
Fine, if you insist, I give you permission to name him Robz888 Jr. (Or Robby Jr.) :)
Congrats!
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Congrats, Volt.
Now, I find these often "I'm going to reread all now, and than comment" a bit scummy, actually. Done this too much as scum. I can elaborate if necessary.
Query to those voting ashersky: would you be just as comfortable voting Archetype?
No, it's not about postcount. That's silliness. Look at their actual posts. Ashersky's were mostly one-liners and fluff. Archetype has put thought into his posts and engaged me. He's contributed much more than ashersky, regardless of the number of posts either has had.
Actually stinks town now.
Grujah's "I have the most towny meta" seemed a bit far-fetched, but I'm not reading any scumminess in his posts, so maybe he's right? Robz remains suspicious of Grujah, although he's focused on lurkers now.
Uhm, my "scumminess" has nothing to do with true-ness of that statement. A wierd call to make right there, +1 scum point to you.
I explained what my meta is, and half of this is semi-forced by me. I breadcrumb roles often. I claim not to make forceclaim in face of danger. I lurk hard as scum and post heavily as town (this is stiched to me these last 2 games I was scum in).
Now, you read that, and just think over whether those are good traits to have as a) town b) scum. Has nothing to do with my scumminess this game.
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Maybe we should give his wife a present and lynch him so he spends more time with the family?
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Lynch all the parents?
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This is a special case. Actually, he's probably going to be sitting around in the hospital bored for a while. I brought my laptop and played terraria while the wife and baby slept.
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I don't think I've seen Grujah post this much in any games we've played together.
I said I didn't see any scumminess, not the other way around, so your response is confusing to me. I meant you sound townish to me.
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I think BMMMMMMMM and MVI is where I was among top posters.
Doesn't matter if you saw scumminess or not. You say that it might be right because "i wasn't scummy". My scumminess has NOTHING to do whether that is right or not. And you are somehow connecting two unconnectable things - truthness of that statement and my scumminess.
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I think BMMMMMMMM and MVI is where I was among top posters.
Doesn't matter if you saw scumminess or not. You say that it might be right because "i wasn't scummy". My scumminess has NOTHING to do whether that is right or not. And you are somehow connecting two unconnectable things - truthness of that statement and my scumminess.
Okay. As for the original statement, that you have the towniest meta, I think galz and eevee give you a run for that title. Eevee's meta is basically "town."
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You sure? Please elaborate. Especially intrigued about Galz.
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You sure? Please elaborate. Especially intrigued about Galz.
I don't think I can elaborate, given the games are ongoing, although he's dead in both.
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I might oversimplify things, but Eevee's meta is "friendly, jokster". Those are easy to fake as scum.
Galz meta, at least from my angle, was that he seems scummy even as town (MIV, MVI). Also, confident to an extent. First is not good towny trait, second is okish at both sides.
But well, if you can talk, too bad :(
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I think BMMMMMMMM and MVI is where I was among top posters.
Doesn't matter if you saw scumminess or not. You say that it might be right because "i wasn't scummy". My scumminess has NOTHING to do whether that is right or not. And you are somehow connecting two unconnectable things - truthness of that statement and my scumminess.
Okay. As for the original statement, that you have the towniest meta, I think galz and eevee give you a run for that title. Eevee's meta is basically "town."
Eevee's meta is "town" because Eevee's alignment is always "town." I'm still not really getting that as strongly this game though.
Anyway, unvote. Ashersky is here and participating, and I didn't consider the opposite-hemisphere issue. If we're gonna have someone at L-2 for lurking it probably shouldn't be him right now.
Vote: jotheonah
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- Lots of RVS and early game analysis... pretty good stuff there... weird not having an ehunt or theorel to do math for us
- The Grujah wagon starts with Voltgloss, joined by Robz, Insomniac and Eevee in consecutive posts. Eevee ends up getting some slack for his "pressure votes comment" and then by Frisk and Insomniac reacts.
- I personally don't mind Insomniac's reaction although I think perhaps it was unwarranted, but understandable.
- The Grujah drunk conversation I think is somewhat fruitless. Grujah has played as both scum and town power role when he said he was drunk. So I don't read anything into that at all. But along those lines, I do not take being drunk as an excuse for bad posts or slips. Anything posted at anytime is fair game, so I am not sure why you even mention that you are drunk. Then again, I don't drink, so I am not familiar with what being drunk even feels like.
- Someone noted that Voltgloss is being very "paranoid" was that the word used? I agree. Today's game is an interesting one because everyone has a very heightened awareness surrounding lurking due to the last two game. I think Volt is just reacting to that heightened awareness.
- Two changes in personality, Grujah and eevee. Grujah posting more and eevee just isn't as cute and cuddly as other's have noted.
- I think the scummiest thing I saw from the entire reread was from Cuzz:
Jorbles, can you Chicken Unvote even if your vote in not on anybody?
Yes.
I think this solves the "how to talk about people who are at L-1," no?
@Volt, I'd probably be just as happy with my vote on Archetype. For some reason he's seemed a bit more visible to me than ashersky, but I just rechecked Insomniac's count and he really only has one more post than ashersky.
followed by:
Query to those voting ashersky: would you be just as comfortable voting Archetype?
No, it's not about postcount. That's silliness. Look at their actual posts. Ashersky's were mostly one-liners and fluff. Archetype has put thought into his posts and engaged me. He's contributed much more than ashersky, regardless of the number of posts either has had.
Yeah I went back and reread, and I mostly agree with this.
This is interesting because Cuzz was willing to go back and recheck Insomniac's vote count, but he wasn't willing to take just a few seconds of time and read ashersky's five posts and Archetypes' six and notice the content difference. I am actually wondering if this was the point's of Volt's asking this question, as it seems like something volt would try to do.
Once shraeye points out the content difference between the two, Cuzz quickly adjusts his statement. That is enough for me to vote: Cuzz
- as for the ashersky wagon, lynching scummy lurkers is great. But I still have a hard time being willing to classify anyone as a true "lurker" when we are so little into the day. There needs to have elapsed a long enough period for someone to truly lurk, that is a larger sampling size is needed to make that sort of statement.
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Vote Count 1.4:
Grujah (1): Eevee
Insomniac (1): Grujah
Eevee (1): jotheonah
ashersky (4): Insomniac, Robz888, shraeye, Voltgloss
Robz888 (2): Galzria, Captain_Frisk
jotheonah (1): Cuzz
Cuzz (1): yuma
Not voting (2): ashersky, Archetype
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Currently Cursed: No one
Curse deadline: Saturday Oct 20, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
Lynch deadline: Tuesday Oct 23, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
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This is interesting because Cuzz was willing to go back and recheck Insomniac's vote count, but he wasn't willing to take just a few seconds of time and read ashersky's five posts and Archetypes' six and notice the content difference. I am actually wondering if this was the point's of Volt's asking this question, as it seems like something volt would try to do.
Once shraeye points out the content difference between the two, Cuzz quickly adjusts his statement. That is enough for me to vote: Cuzz
Huh, interesting.
Vote: Cuzz
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Ooh they are talking about me! Me!
Slightly town reads on yuma and archetype, otherwise pretty null. Don't think the mistake Cuzz made is particularly scummy.
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- I think the scummiest thing I saw from the entire reread was from Cuzz:
Jorbles, can you Chicken Unvote even if your vote in not on anybody?
Yes.
I think this solves the "how to talk about people who are at L-1," no?
@Volt, I'd probably be just as happy with my vote on Archetype. For some reason he's seemed a bit more visible to me than ashersky, but I just rechecked Insomniac's count and he really only has one more post than ashersky.
followed by:
Query to those voting ashersky: would you be just as comfortable voting Archetype?
No, it's not about postcount. That's silliness. Look at their actual posts. Ashersky's were mostly one-liners and fluff. Archetype has put thought into his posts and engaged me. He's contributed much more than ashersky, regardless of the number of posts either has had.
Yeah I went back and reread, and I mostly agree with this.
This is interesting because Cuzz was willing to go back and recheck Insomniac's vote count, but he wasn't willing to take just a few seconds of time and read ashersky's five posts and Archetypes' six and notice the content difference. I am actually wondering if this was the point's of Volt's asking this question, as it seems like something volt would try to do.
Once shraeye points out the content difference between the two, Cuzz quickly adjusts his statement. That is enough for me to vote: Cuzz
Yuma, I kinda see what you mean, but basically I was just being lazy with that first post, and you're right I guess that I "wasn't willing to take a few seconds of time." But I did mention that I got a feeling that Archetype had posted more real content, so afterwards I went back and tried to figure out what had stuck out to me (which obviously I should have done before the first post but alas). I then was going to clarify in a post of my own, got ninja'd by shraeye, and decided to just echo him instead.
I do find it a little far-fetched though that this was the "the scummiest thing from the entire reread." And shraeye's sheeping without any further comment seems kinda suspicious.
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Yuma, I kinda see what you mean, but basically I was just being lazy with that first post, and you're right I guess that I "wasn't willing to take a few seconds of time." But I did mention that I got a feeling that Archetype had posted more real content, so afterwards I went back and tried to figure out what had stuck out to me (which obviously I should have done before the first post but alas). I then was going to clarify in a post of my own, got ninja'd by shraeye, and decided to just echo him instead.
Sounds good to me.
Unvote
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Finally woke up. What a day and night. Thanks all for your congratulations, guys.
yuma's comments about Cuzz's flip-flop re: Archetype, and about that being something I would have been trying to find out, are dead-on correct. shraeye seems to accept Cuzz's explanation. I am not sure that I do.
That said, ash's response of "sure my posts had content, I talked about chickens" (heavily paraphrased) is scummy enough to keep my vote on him. The chickens thing is an area where scum can appear to be "posting content" without actually running the risk of offering any reads.
I'm not saying the chickens issue is unworthy of discussion; I'm saying someone who talks ONLY (or, to a lesser extent, mostly) about the chickens issue has, to my eye, a good chance of being scum engaged in well-disguised active lurking.
jo, what are your thoughts?
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The Cuzz/Arch case is interesting, although I'm more inclined to believe Cuzz's explanation than VG seems to be.
Also, I have since talked about more than chickens since then, although I won't fault you for missing the discussions, given your new arrival.
I renew my fos on Shraeye, given his posting pattern over a full day has been short one liners with votes and nothing else of substance. His Cuzz vote/unvote posts had six words that weren't part of the actual votes, total.
In fact, vote: Shraeye. Shraeye is always talkative and abrasive in games, and town while at it. He does long, winding analysis posts with dozens of quotes. All of a sudden he's quiet and reserved? Changing meta? Or change of role?
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Post count:
1. shraeye: 12
2. Robz888: 20
3. Voltgloss: 31
4. Eevee: 33
5. yuma: 9
6. Galzria: 25
7. Insomniac: 45
8. ashersky: 12
9. Captain_Frisk: 51
10. Grujah: 30
11. Archetype: 10
12. jotheonah: 7
13. Cuzz: 25
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Frisk, do you have any comments on this? Who are your scumreads so far?
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All of my votes starting with Insomniac are legit.
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All of my votes starting with Insomniac are legit.
Frisk. Tunneling insomniac in all threads since losing m12
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All of my votes starting with Insomniac are legit.
So the one right before that, when you piled on the Grujah blitzwagon to put him at L-2, was not legit?
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All of my votes starting with Insomniac are legit.
Frisk. Tunneling insomniac in all threads since losing m12
I've been angry with you since M8!
Does it count as tunnelling if I"m voting RobZ instead?
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All of my votes starting with Insomniac are legit.
So the one right before that, when you piled on the Grujah blitzwagon to put him at L-2, was not legit?
That was borderline. I don't think that he was in real danger.
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All of my votes starting with Insomniac are legit.
Frisk. Tunneling insomniac in all threads since losing m12
I've been angry with you since M8!
Does it count as tunnelling if I"m voting RobZ instead?
Right right where I caught your biggest scum slip in history and realized you were Doug the same thing you accused me of. I'll correct then
Frisk tunning insomniac in all threads since insomniac caught him in m8 (exception he SHOULD have tunneled insomniac in m12 but didn't ;))
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This reminds me, I wanted to summarize this wagon on Grujah from earlier, because it seemed to get a bit out of hand for so early in the day.
In 4 consecutive posts over the course of 6 minutes, Volt, Robz, Insomniac and Eevee vote for Grujah. Frisk does so less than 10 minutes later putting Grujah at L-2. Insomniac freaks out and votes Frisk. An argument about what kind of danger of getting lynched Grujah was actually in develops, and Frisk votes Insomniac, then back to Grujah, then back to Insomniac (you're on a boat!). Meanwhile Galz voted Grujah in there somewhere and I believe there was a moment when Grujah was back at L-2.
Now, I tend to agree that there was little risk of Grujah actually being lynched then. I can't think of any reason for town or scum to push the wagon further than that, and that holds regardless of which alignment Grujah is. Plus, at L-2 it would have taken coordination from scum or massive stupidity from town for a lynch to actually occur.
But Grujah claimed there was scum on that wagon, and I think that's probably true, again regardless of Grujah's alignment. If he's scum, hard bussing D1 is now the go-to scum strategy right? Or, if Grujah is town, a growing wagon on a townie early D1 might be tempting to hop onto. Even if it doesn't result immediately in a lynch (which, again, it was never going to), it puts Grujah under more scrutiny and maybe then the suspicion builds.
So who might be scum on this wagon?
Volt's first position is not particularly suspicious, plus I've gotten a slight townread from him so far.
Robz says he's gonna push lurkers this game, which is reasonable as town (hell I'm doing the same), but it also could be a nice excuse to hide behind if he happened to have drawn scum this game. Robz, notably, was also in a similar position on the later ashersky wagon.
Insomniac got spooked off of the wagon really quickly, and was in the classically scummy third position. He was happy to vote but really worried about an actual lynch going down. Either didn't want to lynch his scumbuddy, or worried about his position on a townie wagon? Suspicious but doesn't seem quite like scum Insomniac to me.
Eevee shows up in somewhat scummy 4th place, and makes the awful "enough pressure votes" comment. Eevee has defended this as simply bad town play, but still something has seemed off to me about him this game.
Frisk then gets on after a short pause, and tips the wagon into the "danger zone" (http://gunnuts.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/danger-zone.jpg). Again, even though I don't think there was real danger, L-2 is a bit silly at that point. Also the relative gap after the first four votes is interesting.
Galz was somewhat disjoint from the rest of the wagon, in that he votes after much of the discussion about the quickwagon is underway. His reasoning is similar to Robz's and notably, this is where Grujah ultimately decided to park his vote.
With the exception of Volt, I could honestly see any one of them as scum, though I think Insomniac and Eevee look worst here, followed by Robz. Based on this, and the change in attitude as well, I'll Vote: Eevee.
My vote on joth is downgraded to a FoS but I have not taken my eye off lurkers, and I do want to hear more from him (though I know he has RL reasons).
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The Cuzz/Arch case is interesting, although I'm more inclined to believe Cuzz's explanation than VG seems to be.
Also, I have since talked about more than chickens since then, although I won't fault you for missing the discussions, given your new arrival.
I renew my fos on Shraeye, given his posting pattern over a full day has been short one liners with votes and nothing else of substance. His Cuzz vote/unvote posts had six words that weren't part of the actual votes, total.
In fact, vote: Shraeye. Shraeye is always talkative and abrasive in games, and town while at it. He does long, winding analysis posts with dozens of quotes. All of a sudden he's quiet and reserved? Changing meta? Or change of role?
I think Shraeye might be in the same position as I am - in too many games and having a hard time digging in. But I'd like to know why you haven't posted any of your usual big block analyses.
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The Cuzz/Arch case is interesting, although I'm more inclined to believe Cuzz's explanation than VG seems to be.
Also, I have since talked about more than chickens since then, although I won't fault you for missing the discussions, given your new arrival.
I renew my fos on Shraeye, given his posting pattern over a full day has been short one liners with votes and nothing else of substance. His Cuzz vote/unvote posts had six words that weren't part of the actual votes, total.
In fact, vote: Shraeye. Shraeye is always talkative and abrasive in games, and town while at it. He does long, winding analysis posts with dozens of quotes. All of a sudden he's quiet and reserved? Changing meta? Or change of role?
I think Shraeye might be in the same position as I am - in too many games and having a hard time digging in. But I'd like to know why you haven't posted any of your usual big block analyses.
Is the "you" there shraeye or ashersky?
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shraeye, sorry.
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The Cuzz/Arch case is interesting, although I'm more inclined to believe Cuzz's explanation than VG seems to be.
Also, I have since talked about more than chickens since then, although I won't fault you for missing the discussions, given your new arrival.
I renew my fos on Shraeye, given his posting pattern over a full day has been short one liners with votes and nothing else of substance. His Cuzz vote/unvote posts had six words that weren't part of the actual votes, total.
In fact, vote: Shraeye. Shraeye is always talkative and abrasive in games, and town while at it. He does long, winding analysis posts with dozens of quotes. All of a sudden he's quiet and reserved? Changing meta? Or change of role?
I think Shraeye might be in the same position as I am - in too many games and having a hard time digging in. But I'd like to know why you haven't posted any of your usual big block analyses.
I'd guess that we're 2 days in?
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It's time for a quick rundown of Insomniacs thoughts thus far!
1. shraeye - slight scum. Expressed a desire to derphammer because others didn't want it, hasn't posted any traditional shraeye big posts yet. (Not too worried on the latter)
2. Robz888 - Pretty normal. He's been quieter than normal but he expressed depression because of M12 has been actively trying to lynch lurkers. Null read
3. Voltgloss - Null read. Volts posts have striken me as traditional Volt but he has been pushing the new lynch lurkers meta a bit harder then I suspected given that it came from a game where 1 of the mafia was the most active player.
4. Eevee - Has been different this game but he's been having a bunch of confidence, Eevee is normally town and normally thinks I'm scum. I think he's a bit more scummy this game because of his acting differently but I normally find Eevee a bit scummy.
5. yuma - Quieter yuma as to be expected, I'd like to see more from him as normally he has some pretty good ideas as town. Null
6. Galzria - A bit scummy. Has expressed happiness that DS is pursuing lynch all lurkers meta but hasn't actually joined in on any of the wagons has tried to appear associated with the Grujah wagon. I would be highly suspect of Galz is Grujah is scum.
7. Insomniac - Obvtown.
8. ashersky - Was pretty low on the post count and content and when called out tried to do more of both. If I got called out as scum for either of those I would definetly respond similarily. Highest scum read which still doesn't say too much at this point in the game.
9. Captain_Frisk - slight town. I was getting a scum read off of him but his posts have done a lot to clear that up for me, I genuinely feel like he thinks I'm scum and that makes his voting for me feel more town.
10. Grujah - Slight scum. Hard to put into words why I'm just getting the scum Grujah vibe more than the town Grujah vibe.
11. Archetype - Nullish read, I gave him a FoS for what seemed to be buddying up to me he answered it adequately IMO.
12. jotheonah - Low post count, in a lot of games just got a new job. Null read, look forward to seeing more posts so that I can get a better read.
13. Cuzz - More talkative then in MXII where he was the doctor, I'm getting a scum read from some of his posts and a town read in others, so he's getting a null from me right now. In MXII he claimed he was trying to seem scummy, and man did he so I'm not sure what scum Cuzz would look like.
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To also weigh in on the chicken thing I like
Once - yes
twice - no
Thrice - null
using votes to give names and robz method for roleclaiming should it be necessary.
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I "tried to be associated with"? What's that mean? That when you bailed over a "concern" that he got to L-2 (even though the lynch was ridiculously unlikely), I immediately placed my vote on and argued that in order for a wagon to be effective, people can't go "OMG IT'S A WAGON! BAIL BAIL BAIL"?
Yeah, I'm confused.
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I "tried to be associated with"? What's that mean? That when you bailed over a "concern" that he got to L-2 (even though the lynch was ridiculously unlikely), I immediately placed my vote on and argued that in order for a wagon to be effective, people can't go "OMG IT'S A WAGON! BAIL BAIL BAIL"?
Yeah, I'm confused.
You didn't vote for the Ash wagon for lurking nor the Grujah wagon for lurking you didn't vote Grujah until after he showed up if I recall. But even before he showed up you were like YA lynchin lurkers!
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It's time for a quick rundown of Insomniacs thoughts thus far!
1. shraeye - slight scum. Expressed a desire to derphammer because others didn't want it, hasn't posted any traditional shraeye big posts yet. (Not too worried on the latter)
2. Robz888 - Pretty normal. He's been quieter than normal but he expressed depression because of M12 has been actively trying to lynch lurkers. Null read
3. Voltgloss - Null read. Volts posts have striken me as traditional Volt but he has been pushing the new lynch lurkers meta a bit harder then I suspected given that it came from a game where 1 of the mafia was the most active player.
4. Eevee - Has been different this game but he's been having a bunch of confidence, Eevee is normally town and normally thinks I'm scum. I think he's a bit more scummy this game because of his acting differently but I normally find Eevee a bit scummy.
5. yuma - Quieter yuma as to be expected, I'd like to see more from him as normally he has some pretty good ideas as town. Null
6. Galzria - A bit scummy. Has expressed happiness that DS is pursuing lynch all lurkers meta but hasn't actually joined in on any of the wagons has tried to appear associated with the Grujah wagon. I would be highly suspect of Galz is Grujah is scum.
7. Insomniac - Obvtown.
8. ashersky - Was pretty low on the post count and content and when called out tried to do more of both. If I got called out as scum for either of those I would definetly respond similarily. Highest scum read which still doesn't say too much at this point in the game.
9. Captain_Frisk - slight town. I was getting a scum read off of him but his posts have done a lot to clear that up for me, I genuinely feel like he thinks I'm scum and that makes his voting for me feel more town.
10. Grujah - Slight scum. Hard to put into words why I'm just getting the scum Grujah vibe more than the town Grujah vibe.
11. Archetype - Nullish read, I gave him a FoS for what seemed to be buddying up to me he answered it adequately IMO.
12. jotheonah - Low post count, in a lot of games just got a new job. Null read, look forward to seeing more posts so that I can get a better read.
13. Cuzz - More talkative then in MXII where he was the doctor, I'm getting a scum read from some of his posts and a town read in others, so he's getting a null from me right now. In MXII he claimed he was trying to seem scummy, and man did he so I'm not sure what scum Cuzz would look like.
I agree with everything Insomniac said. Every single thing. Every word.
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Galz - what are your thoughts on Insomniac backing down against me?
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It's time for a quick rundown of Insomniacs thoughts thus far!
1. shraeye - slight scum. Expressed a desire to derphammer because others didn't want it, hasn't posted any traditional shraeye big posts yet. (Not too worried on the latter)
2. Robz888 - Pretty normal. He's been quieter than normal but he expressed depression because of M12 has been actively trying to lynch lurkers. Null read
3. Voltgloss - Null read. Volts posts have striken me as traditional Volt but he has been pushing the new lynch lurkers meta a bit harder then I suspected given that it came from a game where 1 of the mafia was the most active player.
4. Eevee - Has been different this game but he's been having a bunch of confidence, Eevee is normally town and normally thinks I'm scum. I think he's a bit more scummy this game because of his acting differently but I normally find Eevee a bit scummy.
5. yuma - Quieter yuma as to be expected, I'd like to see more from him as normally he has some pretty good ideas as town. Null
6. Galzria - A bit scummy. Has expressed happiness that DS is pursuing lynch all lurkers meta but hasn't actually joined in on any of the wagons has tried to appear associated with the Grujah wagon. I would be highly suspect of Galz is Grujah is scum.
7. Insomniac - Obvtown.
8. ashersky - Was pretty low on the post count and content and when called out tried to do more of both. If I got called out as scum for either of those I would definetly respond similarily. Highest scum read which still doesn't say too much at this point in the game.
9. Captain_Frisk - slight town. I was getting a scum read off of him but his posts have done a lot to clear that up for me, I genuinely feel like he thinks I'm scum and that makes his voting for me feel more town.
10. Grujah - Slight scum. Hard to put into words why I'm just getting the scum Grujah vibe more than the town Grujah vibe.
11. Archetype - Nullish read, I gave him a FoS for what seemed to be buddying up to me he answered it adequately IMO.
12. jotheonah - Low post count, in a lot of games just got a new job. Null read, look forward to seeing more posts so that I can get a better read.
13. Cuzz - More talkative then in MXII where he was the doctor, I'm getting a scum read from some of his posts and a town read in others, so he's getting a null from me right now. In MXII he claimed he was trying to seem scummy, and man did he so I'm not sure what scum Cuzz would look like.
I agree with everything Insomniac said. Every single thing. Every word.
New forum mafia meta - instead of extreme day 1 bussing, extreme day 1 buddying.
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It's time for a quick rundown of Insomniacs thoughts thus far!
1. shraeye - slight scum. Expressed a desire to derphammer because others didn't want it, hasn't posted any traditional shraeye big posts yet. (Not too worried on the latter)
2. Robz888 - Pretty normal. He's been quieter than normal but he expressed depression because of M12 has been actively trying to lynch lurkers. Null read
3. Voltgloss - Null read. Volts posts have striken me as traditional Volt but he has been pushing the new lynch lurkers meta a bit harder then I suspected given that it came from a game where 1 of the mafia was the most active player.
4. Eevee - Has been different this game but he's been having a bunch of confidence, Eevee is normally town and normally thinks I'm scum. I think he's a bit more scummy this game because of his acting differently but I normally find Eevee a bit scummy.
5. yuma - Quieter yuma as to be expected, I'd like to see more from him as normally he has some pretty good ideas as town. Null
6. Galzria - A bit scummy. Has expressed happiness that DS is pursuing lynch all lurkers meta but hasn't actually joined in on any of the wagons has tried to appear associated with the Grujah wagon. I would be highly suspect of Galz is Grujah is scum.
7. Insomniac - Obvtown.
8. ashersky - Was pretty low on the post count and content and when called out tried to do more of both. If I got called out as scum for either of those I would definetly respond similarily. Highest scum read which still doesn't say too much at this point in the game.
9. Captain_Frisk - slight town. I was getting a scum read off of him but his posts have done a lot to clear that up for me, I genuinely feel like he thinks I'm scum and that makes his voting for me feel more town.
10. Grujah - Slight scum. Hard to put into words why I'm just getting the scum Grujah vibe more than the town Grujah vibe.
11. Archetype - Nullish read, I gave him a FoS for what seemed to be buddying up to me he answered it adequately IMO.
12. jotheonah - Low post count, in a lot of games just got a new job. Null read, look forward to seeing more posts so that I can get a better read.
13. Cuzz - More talkative then in MXII where he was the doctor, I'm getting a scum read from some of his posts and a town read in others, so he's getting a null from me right now. In MXII he claimed he was trying to seem scummy, and man did he so I'm not sure what scum Cuzz would look like.
I agree with everything Insomniac said. Every single thing. Every word.
What? I don't get this at all, why are you super buddying me (sheeping ash and now apparently all my reads including me being obvtown which is only true for me because I know my PM)
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It's time for a quick rundown of Insomniacs thoughts thus far!
1. shraeye - slight scum. Expressed a desire to derphammer because others didn't want it, hasn't posted any traditional shraeye big posts yet. (Not too worried on the latter)
2. Robz888 - Pretty normal. He's been quieter than normal but he expressed depression because of M12 has been actively trying to lynch lurkers. Null read
3. Voltgloss - Null read. Volts posts have striken me as traditional Volt but he has been pushing the new lynch lurkers meta a bit harder then I suspected given that it came from a game where 1 of the mafia was the most active player.
4. Eevee - Has been different this game but he's been having a bunch of confidence, Eevee is normally town and normally thinks I'm scum. I think he's a bit more scummy this game because of his acting differently but I normally find Eevee a bit scummy.
5. yuma - Quieter yuma as to be expected, I'd like to see more from him as normally he has some pretty good ideas as town. Null
6. Galzria - A bit scummy. Has expressed happiness that DS is pursuing lynch all lurkers meta but hasn't actually joined in on any of the wagons has tried to appear associated with the Grujah wagon. I would be highly suspect of Galz is Grujah is scum.
7. Insomniac - Obvtown.
8. ashersky - Was pretty low on the post count and content and when called out tried to do more of both. If I got called out as scum for either of those I would definetly respond similarily. Highest scum read which still doesn't say too much at this point in the game.
9. Captain_Frisk - slight town. I was getting a scum read off of him but his posts have done a lot to clear that up for me, I genuinely feel like he thinks I'm scum and that makes his voting for me feel more town.
10. Grujah - Slight scum. Hard to put into words why I'm just getting the scum Grujah vibe more than the town Grujah vibe.
11. Archetype - Nullish read, I gave him a FoS for what seemed to be buddying up to me he answered it adequately IMO.
12. jotheonah - Low post count, in a lot of games just got a new job. Null read, look forward to seeing more posts so that I can get a better read.
13. Cuzz - More talkative then in MXII where he was the doctor, I'm getting a scum read from some of his posts and a town read in others, so he's getting a null from me right now. In MXII he claimed he was trying to seem scummy, and man did he so I'm not sure what scum Cuzz would look like.
I agree with everything Insomniac said. Every single thing. Every word.
So Insomniac is obvtown?
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It's time for a quick rundown of Insomniacs thoughts thus far!
1. shraeye - slight scum. Expressed a desire to derphammer because others didn't want it, hasn't posted any traditional shraeye big posts yet. (Not too worried on the latter)
2. Robz888 - Pretty normal. He's been quieter than normal but he expressed depression because of M12 has been actively trying to lynch lurkers. Null read
3. Voltgloss - Null read. Volts posts have striken me as traditional Volt but he has been pushing the new lynch lurkers meta a bit harder then I suspected given that it came from a game where 1 of the mafia was the most active player.
4. Eevee - Has been different this game but he's been having a bunch of confidence, Eevee is normally town and normally thinks I'm scum. I think he's a bit more scummy this game because of his acting differently but I normally find Eevee a bit scummy.
5. yuma - Quieter yuma as to be expected, I'd like to see more from him as normally he has some pretty good ideas as town. Null
6. Galzria - A bit scummy. Has expressed happiness that DS is pursuing lynch all lurkers meta but hasn't actually joined in on any of the wagons has tried to appear associated with the Grujah wagon. I would be highly suspect of Galz is Grujah is scum.
7. Insomniac - Obvtown.
8. ashersky - Was pretty low on the post count and content and when called out tried to do more of both. If I got called out as scum for either of those I would definetly respond similarily. Highest scum read which still doesn't say too much at this point in the game.
9. Captain_Frisk - slight town. I was getting a scum read off of him but his posts have done a lot to clear that up for me, I genuinely feel like he thinks I'm scum and that makes his voting for me feel more town.
10. Grujah - Slight scum. Hard to put into words why I'm just getting the scum Grujah vibe more than the town Grujah vibe.
11. Archetype - Nullish read, I gave him a FoS for what seemed to be buddying up to me he answered it adequately IMO.
12. jotheonah - Low post count, in a lot of games just got a new job. Null read, look forward to seeing more posts so that I can get a better read.
13. Cuzz - More talkative then in MXII where he was the doctor, I'm getting a scum read from some of his posts and a town read in others, so he's getting a null from me right now. In MXII he claimed he was trying to seem scummy, and man did he so I'm not sure what scum Cuzz would look like.
I agree with everything Insomniac said. Every single thing. Every word.
So Insomniac is obvtown?
I don't know whether Insomniac is town or not (right now I would guess that he is), but I agree with what he thinks about everyone else. That's all. It means literally what I said.
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That was just a joke. If you meant it literally you'd be agreeing with his comment about himself too.
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I "tried to be associated with"? What's that mean? That when you bailed over a "concern" that he got to L-2 (even though the lynch was ridiculously unlikely), I immediately placed my vote on and argued that in order for a wagon to be effective, people can't go "OMG IT'S A WAGON! BAIL BAIL BAIL"?
Yeah, I'm confused.
You didn't vote for the Ash wagon for lurking nor the Grujah wagon for lurking you didn't vote Grujah until after he showed up if I recall. But even before he showed up you were like YA lynchin lurkers!
That is false. On so many levels. I DID vote Gruj for lurking, and I DID vote him before he showed up. I also argued strongly against people unvoting. The only thing you're right about was that I didn't vote Ash, but instead voted Robz. I fully explained why however, and DID FoS Ash in the same post. I then went on to elaborate the difference between militant LaL policy, and smart LaL policy.
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Insomniac got spooked off of the wagon really quickly, and was in the classically scummy third position. He was happy to vote but really worried about an actual lynch going down. Either didn't want to lynch his scumbuddy, or worried about his position on a townie wagon? Suspicious but doesn't seem quite like scum Insomniac to me.
Eevee shows up in somewhat scummy 4th place, and makes the awful "enough pressure votes" comment. Eevee has defended this as simply bad town play, but still something has seemed off to me about him this game.
Here's what I want to know. Maybe somebody has done this. I think I'll do it later today out of curiosity. Why are these places on a wagon scummy? Is it linked to how many people are needed for a lynch? In past games, when town has been lynched where do scum tend to be on the wagon? In past games when bussing is involved, where do scum tend to be on the list?
Question for when I do this analysis, should I only count the wagons at a lynch, or should I be looking at any votecount? What classifies something as a "wagon" instead of being classified as "just a few votes"
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Insomniac got spooked off of the wagon really quickly, and was in the classically scummy third position. He was happy to vote but really worried about an actual lynch going down. Either didn't want to lynch his scumbuddy, or worried about his position on a townie wagon? Suspicious but doesn't seem quite like scum Insomniac to me.
Eevee shows up in somewhat scummy 4th place, and makes the awful "enough pressure votes" comment. Eevee has defended this as simply bad town play, but still something has seemed off to me about him this game.
Here's what I want to know. Maybe somebody has done this. I think I'll do it later today out of curiosity. Why are these places on a wagon scummy? Is it linked to how many people are needed for a lynch? In past games, when town has been lynched where do scum tend to be on the wagon? In past games when bussing is involved, where do scum tend to be on the list?
Question for when I do this analysis, should I only count the wagons at a lynch, or should I be looking at any votecount? What classifies something as a "wagon" instead of being classified as "just a few votes"
It's one of those standard tells. I don't think there's any official guideline. I was seriously considering doing such an analysis for f.ds to see how it stacks up... but man that is work.
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Insomniac got spooked off of the wagon really quickly, and was in the classically scummy third position. He was happy to vote but really worried about an actual lynch going down. Either didn't want to lynch his scumbuddy, or worried about his position on a townie wagon? Suspicious but doesn't seem quite like scum Insomniac to me.
Eevee shows up in somewhat scummy 4th place, and makes the awful "enough pressure votes" comment. Eevee has defended this as simply bad town play, but still something has seemed off to me about him this game.
Here's what I want to know. Maybe somebody has done this. I think I'll do it later today out of curiosity. Why are these places on a wagon scummy? Is it linked to how many people are needed for a lynch? In past games, when town has been lynched where do scum tend to be on the wagon? In past games when bussing is involved, where do scum tend to be on the list?
Question for when I do this analysis, should I only count the wagons at a lynch, or should I be looking at any votecount? What classifies something as a "wagon" instead of being classified as "just a few votes"
It's one of those standard tells. I don't think there's any official guideline. I was seriously considering doing such an analysis for f.ds to see how it stacks up... but man that is work.
It's exactly the sort of ridiculous analysis that is appealing to me. Maybe that says a lot about my personality... :(
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It's not super ridiculous. As scum, you don't want to start a townie wagon, because you're pissing off some townie. You want to get in because you want the lynch to happen, but you don't want to hammer.
Ergo - those middle positions are scummier. I'm assuming that over time someone did the analysis and figured out that there is a correlation.
Probably not good enough for the only possible case, but its still a datapoint to consider.
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I think if you did an analysis you would find a whole lot of scum at the L-2, L-1, and L positions.
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My general thinking is that scum want to get in on the wagon as early as possible. Later wagoners are much more suspicious seeming.
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My general thinking is that scum want to get in on the wagon as early as possible. Later wagoners are much more suspicious seeming.
To clarify, they WANT to do that. They want to get in early. But it's hard, you know? Because they don't know which wagons will take off. So they end up late to the party, because they bet wrong. I mean, it's rather fickle which wagons go places Day 1.
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Insomniac got spooked off of the wagon really quickly, and was in the classically scummy third position. He was happy to vote but really worried about an actual lynch going down. Either didn't want to lynch his scumbuddy, or worried about his position on a townie wagon? Suspicious but doesn't seem quite like scum Insomniac to me.
Eevee shows up in somewhat scummy 4th place, and makes the awful "enough pressure votes" comment. Eevee has defended this as simply bad town play, but still something has seemed off to me about him this game.
Here's what I want to know. Maybe somebody has done this. I think I'll do it later today out of curiosity. Why are these places on a wagon scummy? Is it linked to how many people are needed for a lynch? In past games, when town has been lynched where do scum tend to be on the wagon? In past games when bussing is involved, where do scum tend to be on the list?
Question for when I do this analysis, should I only count the wagons at a lynch, or should I be looking at any votecount? What classifies something as a "wagon" instead of being classified as "just a few votes"
Third and fourth vote are the scummiest for the following reason:
A votes X. Now, it is just a single vote.
B votes X. Now, it looks like this might take off.
Scum might vote X here to try and start a wagon going or alternatively
C votes X. Scum would vote here to try and push the wagon fast.
5+ it gets less "scummy", as people are than really analyzing X, and also might be aware that their main lynch might not be possible so are thinking of X is good enough.
The Cuzz/Arch case is interesting, although I'm more inclined to believe Cuzz's explanation than VG seems to be.
Also, I have since talked about more than chickens since then, although I won't fault you for missing the discussions, given your new arrival.
I renew my fos on Shraeye, given his posting pattern over a full day has been short one liners with votes and nothing else of substance. His Cuzz vote/unvote posts had six words that weren't part of the actual votes, total.
In fact, vote: Shraeye. Shraeye is always talkative and abrasive in games, and town while at it. He does long, winding analysis posts with dozens of quotes. All of a sudden he's quiet and reserved? Changing meta? Or change of role?
Not overly good vibe. And Frisk went down in scumminess for some reason.. Hmm..
But Grujah claimed there was scum on that wagon, and I think that's probably true, again regardless of Grujah's alignment. If he's scum, hard bussing D1 is now the go-to scum strategy right? Or, if Grujah is town, a growing wagon on a townie early D1 might be tempting to hop onto. Even if it doesn't result immediately in a lynch (which, again, it was never going to), it puts Grujah under more scrutiny and maybe then the suspicion builds.
I didn't claim this.
I will be kinda on lower activity till tuesday due to college work. I'll try to input as much as I can.
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But Grujah claimed there was scum on that wagon, and I think that's probably true, again regardless of Grujah's alignment. If he's scum, hard bussing D1 is now the go-to scum strategy right? Or, if Grujah is town, a growing wagon on a townie early D1 might be tempting to hop onto. Even if it doesn't result immediately in a lynch (which, again, it was never going to), it puts Grujah under more scrutiny and maybe then the suspicion builds.
I didn't claim this.
Now, this wagon seems RVS, but there is scum on it, I guarantee.
It's that scum vibe that goes "look, this sure is ridicoulus, but it just MIGHT work, I need to support it."
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Hmm.. Oh, seems like I did. :o
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Robz, what are your thoughts on Galz? In your own words, please.
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Finally woke up. What a day and night. Thanks all for your congratulations, guys.
yuma's comments about Cuzz's flip-flop re: Archetype, and about that being something I would have been trying to find out, are dead-on correct. shraeye seems to accept Cuzz's explanation. I am not sure that I do.
Glad to see that you and I are somewhat on the same page--that is more a compliment toward me, as I esteem your play as quite elegant, yet understated (sounds like a fine wine no?)
I don't really by Cuzz's explanation either, basically he had two sheeping moments in a row. 1. (I am supposing here that Volt's question was intended to be read as Volt suggesting that Archetype was a comparable and acceptable alternative to ashersky--I certainly read it that way the first time and suppose that Cuzz did as well) sheeping off the idea of Archetype being a potential lynch candidate. 2. Changing his line to sheep off shraeye.
I know that my first game as scum, M3, (it was my first game of online mafia period) I sheeped like crazy. That is all I did all game and it kept me out of suspicious light. My vote on Cuzz is because I think it is quite possible he is doing the same.
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Robz, what are your thoughts on Galz? In your own words, please.
I would be interested as well since he just claimed to agree 100% with a completely fabricated set of statements on me.
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Insomniac got spooked off of the wagon really quickly, and was in the classically scummy third position. He was happy to vote but really worried about an actual lynch going down. Either didn't want to lynch his scumbuddy, or worried about his position on a townie wagon? Suspicious but doesn't seem quite like scum Insomniac to me.
Eevee shows up in somewhat scummy 4th place, and makes the awful "enough pressure votes" comment. Eevee has defended this as simply bad town play, but still something has seemed off to me about him this game.
Here's what I want to know. Maybe somebody has done this. I think I'll do it later today out of curiosity. Why are these places on a wagon scummy? Is it linked to how many people are needed for a lynch? In past games, when town has been lynched where do scum tend to be on the wagon? In past games when bussing is involved, where do scum tend to be on the list?
Question for when I do this analysis, should I only count the wagons at a lynch, or should I be looking at any votecount? What classifies something as a "wagon" instead of being classified as "just a few votes"
It's one of those standard tells. I don't think there's any official guideline. I was seriously considering doing such an analysis for f.ds to see how it stacks up... but man that is work.
It's exactly the sort of ridiculous analysis that is appealing to me. Maybe that says a lot about my personality... :(
Ok, the moment where I was gung-ho to do this has passed. I will not be doing this.
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In every game I've played (well, 3) I've thought lynching lurkers was a bad idea. A lurker isn't mafia as much as a frequent poster could be. Now if someone just posts jokes or never posts anything that could help the town, then yeah, it's usually a good idea to lynch them.
I think I am going to say this over and over this game... but lynching lurkers only works if you lynch scummy lurkers. A player who doesn't post a high number, but consistently gives quality analysis opinions--w/o contradictions or slips--probably isn't the best candidate to lynch. But again, the more a player posts, the more town has an opportunity to analyze posts and the more opportunities scum has to slip and mess up. I think in every game I have viewed scum has lurked to an extent, but so has a town player or two. To differentiate the two requires comparing posts for content, trends, and interactions with players of known alignment.
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Insomniac got spooked off of the wagon really quickly, and was in the classically scummy third position. He was happy to vote but really worried about an actual lynch going down. Either didn't want to lynch his scumbuddy, or worried about his position on a townie wagon? Suspicious but doesn't seem quite like scum Insomniac to me.
Eevee shows up in somewhat scummy 4th place, and makes the awful "enough pressure votes" comment. Eevee has defended this as simply bad town play, but still something has seemed off to me about him this game.
Here's what I want to know. Maybe somebody has done this. I think I'll do it later today out of curiosity. Why are these places on a wagon scummy? Is it linked to how many people are needed for a lynch? In past games, when town has been lynched where do scum tend to be on the wagon? In past games when bussing is involved, where do scum tend to be on the list?
Question for when I do this analysis, should I only count the wagons at a lynch, or should I be looking at any votecount? What classifies something as a "wagon" instead of being classified as "just a few votes"
It's one of those standard tells. I don't think there's any official guideline. I was seriously considering doing such an analysis for f.ds to see how it stacks up... but man that is work.
It's exactly the sort of ridiculous analysis that is appealing to me. Maybe that says a lot about my personality... :(
Ok, the moment where I was gung-ho to do this has passed. I will not be doing this.
I think from now on in my mafia ranking spreadsheet where I keep track of the games and the votes I will attempt to consistently keep track of the votes in what order they occur--of course this won't keep track of say an early vote that unvotes for some reason late and then votes again. The votes will have to be kept track of from the point of view of the final vote count. I am working on some other projects in that vein on the rankings already, but might try to put together something down the road. But probably not anytime soon enough for it to be used this game.
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Robz, what are your thoughts on Galz? In your own words, please.
In order to answer your question, I did a 5 minute re-read of Galzria. Well, bleh. I don't think he seems very different from normal. He's less omnipresent than usual, and briefer, but what he does say is pretty token Galzria. Strong opens, a dash of humor, against lurking, anti-Robz agenda... vintage Galzria, really.
Now, he's not being as relentlessly (annoyingly, even) townish as usual. Galzria is someone very much like Jo to me: I know what they're like, I just really don't know what they're like when they are mafia, because they are almost always town.
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Robz, what are your thoughts on Galz? In your own words, please.
In order to answer your question, I did a 5 minute re-read of Galzria. Well, bleh. I don't think he seems very different from normal. He's less omnipresent than usual, and briefer, but what he does say is pretty token Galzria. Strong opens, a dash of humor, against lurking, anti-Robz agenda... vintage Galzria, really.
Now, he's not being as relentlessly (annoyingly, even) townish as usual. Galzria is someone very much like Jo to me: I know what they're like, I just really don't know what they're like when they are mafia, because they are almost always town.
Eh, that's probably fair and true to an extent. Much like you, I've realized my value to town is greatest in later days from an analytical standpoint. I don't suck at D1, but it's a different beast. Honestly, for my first 7 town games, nothing worked. In my last one, something did. I'm just trying to replicate results. I'm present. I drive conversation when something pops up. But I'm not going tip involve myself in every issue. Through a mix of quiet observation and directed questions or statements, hopefully I'll feel decent by days end.
Yes though, it is a conscience shift from M-III->M-IX town Galz, to M-XI town Galz. One worked. The others failed.
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Vote Count 1.5:
Grujah (1): Eevee
Insomniac (1): Grujah
Eevee (2): jotheonah, Cuzz
ashersky (3): Insomniac, Robz888, Voltgloss
Robz888 (2): Galzria, Captain_Frisk
Cuzz (1): yuma
shraeye (1): ashersky
Not voting (2): Archetype, shraeye
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Currently Cursed: No one
Curse deadline: Saturday Oct 20, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
Lynch deadline: Tuesday Oct 23, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
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Btw, if you haven't noticed already, all vote counts are linked in the first post so they are easier to find.
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Btw, if you haven't noticed already, all vote counts are linked in the first post so they are easier to find.
Thanks, that's very helpful indeed.
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Jorbles. Best mod ever.
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Robz, what are your thoughts on Galz? In your own words, please.
In order to answer your question, I did a 5 minute re-read of Galzria. Well, bleh. I don't think he seems very different from normal. He's less omnipresent than usual, and briefer, but what he does say is pretty token Galzria. Strong opens, a dash of humor, against lurking, anti-Robz agenda... vintage Galzria, really.
Now, he's not being as relentlessly (annoyingly, even) townish as usual. Galzria is someone very much like Jo to me: I know what they're like, I just really don't know what they're like when they are mafia, because they are almost always town.
Eh, that's probably fair and true to an extent. Much like you, I've realized my value to town is greatest in later days from an analytical standpoint. I don't suck at D1, but it's a different beast. Honestly, for my first 7 town games, nothing worked. In my last one, something did. I'm just trying to replicate results. I'm present. I drive conversation when something pops up. But I'm not going tip involve myself in every issue. Through a mix of quiet observation and directed questions or statements, hopefully I'll feel decent by days end.
Yes though, it is a conscience shift from M-III->M-IX town Galz, to M-XI town Galz. One worked. The others failed.
So we should give you a pass until D3 or so without having to really contribute? I mean, it's easier for everyone to be "greatest on later days" since there are less people, more info to study, etc.
Can't just ignore D1 though. Robz shouldn't either, even if he agrees with the "I am more important to town on later days" argument.
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Robz, what are your thoughts on Galz? In your own words, please.
In order to answer your question, I did a 5 minute re-read of Galzria. Well, bleh. I don't think he seems very different from normal. He's less omnipresent than usual, and briefer, but what he does say is pretty token Galzria. Strong opens, a dash of humor, against lurking, anti-Robz agenda... vintage Galzria, really.
Now, he's not being as relentlessly (annoyingly, even) townish as usual. Galzria is someone very much like Jo to me: I know what they're like, I just really don't know what they're like when they are mafia, because they are almost always town.
Eh, that's probably fair and true to an extent. Much like you, I've realized my value to town is greatest in later days from an analytical standpoint. I don't suck at D1, but it's a different beast. Honestly, for my first 7 town games, nothing worked. In my last one, something did. I'm just trying to replicate results. I'm present. I drive conversation when something pops up. But I'm not going tip involve myself in every issue. Through a mix of quiet observation and directed questions or statements, hopefully I'll feel decent by days end.
Yes though, it is a conscience shift from M-III->M-IX town Galz, to M-XI town Galz. One worked. The others failed.
So we should give you a pass until D3 or so without having to really contribute? I mean, it's easier for everyone to be "greatest on later days" since there are less people, more info to study, etc.
Can't just ignore D1 though. Robz shouldn't either, even if he agrees with the "I am more important to town on later days" argument.
Great job parsing "You should just let me live until late game" from that...
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Robz, what are your thoughts on Galz? In your own words, please.
In order to answer your question, I did a 5 minute re-read of Galzria. Well, bleh. I don't think he seems very different from normal. He's less omnipresent than usual, and briefer, but what he does say is pretty token Galzria. Strong opens, a dash of humor, against lurking, anti-Robz agenda... vintage Galzria, really.
Now, he's not being as relentlessly (annoyingly, even) townish as usual. Galzria is someone very much like Jo to me: I know what they're like, I just really don't know what they're like when they are mafia, because they are almost always town.
Eh, that's probably fair and true to an extent. Much like you, I've realized my value to town is greatest in later days from an analytical standpoint. I don't suck at D1, but it's a different beast. Honestly, for my first 7 town games, nothing worked. In my last one, something did. I'm just trying to replicate results. I'm present. I drive conversation when something pops up. But I'm not going tip involve myself in every issue. Through a mix of quiet observation and directed questions or statements, hopefully I'll feel decent by days end.
Yes though, it is a conscience shift from M-III->M-IX town Galz, to M-XI town Galz. One worked. The others failed.
So we should give you a pass until D3 or so without having to really contribute? I mean, it's easier for everyone to be "greatest on later days" since there are less people, more info to study, etc.
Can't just ignore D1 though. Robz shouldn't either, even if he agrees with the "I am more important to town on later days" argument.
Great job parsing "You should just let me live until late game" from that...
Thanks. It wasn't hard to see in there.
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Robz, what are your thoughts on Galz? In your own words, please.
In order to answer your question, I did a 5 minute re-read of Galzria. Well, bleh. I don't think he seems very different from normal. He's less omnipresent than usual, and briefer, but what he does say is pretty token Galzria. Strong opens, a dash of humor, against lurking, anti-Robz agenda... vintage Galzria, really.
Now, he's not being as relentlessly (annoyingly, even) townish as usual. Galzria is someone very much like Jo to me: I know what they're like, I just really don't know what they're like when they are mafia, because they are almost always town.
Eh, that's probably fair and true to an extent. Much like you, I've realized my value to town is greatest in later days from an analytical standpoint. I don't suck at D1, but it's a different beast. Honestly, for my first 7 town games, nothing worked. In my last one, something did. I'm just trying to replicate results. I'm present. I drive conversation when something pops up. But I'm not going tip involve myself in every issue. Through a mix of quiet observation and directed questions or statements, hopefully I'll feel decent by days end.
Yes though, it is a conscience shift from M-III->M-IX town Galz, to M-XI town Galz. One worked. The others failed.
So we should give you a pass until D3 or so without having to really contribute? I mean, it's easier for everyone to be "greatest on later days" since there are less people, more info to study, etc.
Can't just ignore D1 though. Robz shouldn't either, even if he agrees with the "I am more important to town on later days" argument.
Great job parsing "You should just let me live until late game" from that...
Thanks. It wasn't hard to see in there.
You should take more time and read closer then.
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Robz, what are your thoughts on Galz? In your own words, please.
In order to answer your question, I did a 5 minute re-read of Galzria. Well, bleh. I don't think he seems very different from normal. He's less omnipresent than usual, and briefer, but what he does say is pretty token Galzria. Strong opens, a dash of humor, against lurking, anti-Robz agenda... vintage Galzria, really.
Now, he's not being as relentlessly (annoyingly, even) townish as usual. Galzria is someone very much like Jo to me: I know what they're like, I just really don't know what they're like when they are mafia, because they are almost always town.
Eh, that's probably fair and true to an extent. Much like you, I've realized my value to town is greatest in later days from an analytical standpoint. I don't suck at D1, but it's a different beast. Honestly, for my first 7 town games, nothing worked. In my last one, something did. I'm just trying to replicate results. I'm present. I drive conversation when something pops up. But I'm not going tip involve myself in every issue. Through a mix of quiet observation and directed questions or statements, hopefully I'll feel decent by days end.
Yes though, it is a conscience shift from M-III->M-IX town Galz, to M-XI town Galz. One worked. The others failed.
So we should give you a pass until D3 or so without having to really contribute? I mean, it's easier for everyone to be "greatest on later days" since there are less people, more info to study, etc.
Can't just ignore D1 though. Robz shouldn't either, even if he agrees with the "I am more important to town on later days" argument.
Great job parsing "You should just let me live until late game" from that...
Thanks. It wasn't hard to see in there.
You should take more time and read closer then.
Okay.
Volt asks Robz for his take on you. He rereads and comes away with a "bleh" read, pointing out the ways (three, total) that you are different from your usual self, but notes you still haves notes of vintage you, then concludes he never reads you well, because he almost always ends up with a town read no matter what.
In your response, you basically agree with his take, then say that, much like him (although he didn't say this in his post), you think you are worth more to the town later in the game, although not worthless on D1, but note its a different beast. You say in your last game (not sure which one counts as your last), you did something that worked, and that you would try to replicate that something. You list how you will be D1 ( around but not "tip involved") and end that you had a change in conscience from old games to new. Those last two confuse me more; what do you mean by tip involved (not giving tips on players, maybe?) and I don't know what your conscience has to do with this, unless you felt guilty before and not now?
So, you see, I read it, and my takeaway is you think you are worth a lot to us later in the game vice early, and that worked most recently, and it put your conscience at ease, so that's what we should expect from you. Not much now, greatness later.
I would add that I have noted elsewhere I think you have possibly the most town meta on f.ds. That may be continuing here, but it seems like your change of style may be to counter that?
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Tip = too
Conscience = Conscious
And my last normal game played in is the only Mafia game to legitimately lynch scum D1, largely due to a scum consistency I noticed and called out. Since the game is ongoing however, it's not right to discuss it. I was merely pointing out that my playstyle here is intentionally like my playstyle there, since from M-III to M-IX, no scum was ever lynched D1, whereas scum WAS in M-XI (all games I'm which I played, and was town).
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Tip = too
Conscience = Conscious
And my last normal game played in is the only Mafia game to legitimately lynch scum D1, largely due to a scum consistency I noticed and called out. Since the game is ongoing however, it's not right to discuss it. I was merely pointing out that my playstyle here is intentionally like my playstyle there, since from M-III to M-IX, no scum was ever lynched D1, whereas scum WAS in M-XI (all games I'm which I played, and was town).
Okay, thanks for clarifications.
I understand your point of your last normal game now, too. Clearly can't discuss as I'm in that game still. I will refer back to my exchange earlier this game with Grujah where we discuss towny meta and my take on you, which was based in part on that game.
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So I had a thought about roleclaiming in this setup. I'm going to propose something controversial at the end of this, so I'm going to lay out my reasoning step-by-step, which relies on three key aspects of the setup:
1. There are no Doctors, Jailkeepers, or other "protect another player" roles in this setup.
This means that, if the Explorer, Ambassador, or Cutpurse gets pushed to L-1 and truthfully claims, scum will almost certainly kill him during the night - and can do so knowing with 100% certainty that their kill will succeed. This is bad both because it eliminates a power role, and because we can't glean any information from the scum's choice of kill - it's OBVIOUS why they killed like they did, and they would do so no matter what the identities of the various scumfolks.
2. The Pearl Diver is only useful if scum target him on a night he uses his ability.
Pretty obvious, but it bears repeating. Clearly the best way the Pearl Diver can make use of his power is if he can somehow bait scum into targeting him at night. But if he truthfully claimed Pearl Diver, that just means scum WON'T target him - at least the night after he claims.
3. Scum cannot fakeclaim without provoking a counterclaim.
This because we know EXACTLY how many power roles are in the setup: 4. One of each (Explorer, Cutpurse, Ambassador, Pearl Diver). Also, given that we have 4 power roles and 3 scum, a 1-for-1 tradeoff from counterclaiming isn't a bad deal for town.
Which leads me to my controversial proposal, which has two parts:
- If the Pearl Diver is still alive, and if a power role is forced to L-1, I propose that player generically claim "power role," without revealing his actual role.
- Then, on the following Day, if the claimant is still alive, he reveals his actual role (plus history of who he targeted, if applicable).
This way, scum have a night of WIFOM: is this the Pearl Diver, meaning their kill is going to miss? Or is this another power role, who scum would want to kill? And then on the following Day, the full claim details are provided and - if this is scum fakeclaiming - we'll get the counterclaim needed to get a 1-for-1 tradeoff.
I think this is a better approach than power roles being forced to out themselves and get immediately killed that Night. The drawback is that scum fakeclaiming get to live an extra day... but I think the benefits of a power role living an extra day (especially the Explorer) outweigh that drawback. Thoughts from the town?
In my next few posts, I plan to (1) delineate my communication plans for if I get chicken-cursed - which I think will be in line with those proposed by others, though I have to reread to confirm; and (2) give my reads on everybody to date, along with my willingness-to-lynch list, so I'm not trying to get those across while a chicken (in case I get cursed).
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I don't think the WIFOM is that huge for scum. There are four "power roles" ambassador, cutpurse, explorer and pearl diver. So if one of these players claims power role and then scum goes into night only 1/4--if no other power role has yet been killed--has a chance of being the Pearl Diver. I think the obvious choice is for scum to kill... perhaps I shouldn't be saying this for scum to read, but I think it pretty obvious as a 3/4 chance of killing a power role is pretty good odds for them. Of course those odds change as power roles die off beforehand..... 2/3, 1/2 then I think the WIFOM increases, but hopefully we won't get to that point.
Or am I misreading or misunderstanding something? Let me know if I am.
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Chicken communication:
1. If I am responding to a question raised by another player, I will do so as follows:
Chicken Vote: <Player Asking Question>
Chicken (for yes)
Chicken chicken (for no)
Chicken chicken chicken (if the answer is neither yes nor no)
Chicken Unvote
2. If I am updating my "willingness-to-lynch" list, I will do so as follows:
Chicken chicken chicken chicken. (4x, signaling the start of my willingness-to-lynch list)
Chicken Vote: <Player I am least willing to Lynch>
Chicken Vote: <Next-least willing lynch>
...and so on up to...
Chicken Vote: <Second-most willing to lynch>
Chicken Vote: <Preferred lynch>
3. If at any time I am referring to someone who is at L-1, I will type "Chicken Vote: No Lynch" instead of that player's name. If I actually want to no-lynch, I will "Chicken Vote: No Lynch" twice in a row at the end of my post.
4. If I want to roleclaim, I will:
- type "Chicken" 12 times in one line, to signal a roleclaim;
- in my next line, type as follows:
--- Chicken. (for FV)
--- Chicken chicken. (for "generic power role")
--- Chicken chicken chicken. (for Ambassador)
--- Chicken chicken chicken chicken. (for Explorer)
--- Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken. (for Pearl Diver)
--- Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken. (for Cutpurse)
- and in the case of Ambassador or Explorer, give a series of Chicken Votes: <Player name> to identify (in order by Night) who I targeted each Night. If I need to refer to someone at L-1, I will use Chicken Vote: No Lynch.
I think this combines the various proposals offered into a workable compromise.
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I don't think the WIFOM is that huge for scum. There are four "power roles" ambassador, cutpurse, explorer and pearl diver. So if one of these players claims power role and then scum goes into night only 1/4--if no other power role has yet been killed--has a chance of being the Pearl Diver. I think the obvious choice is for scum to kill... perhaps I shouldn't be saying this for scum to read, but I think it pretty obvious as a 3/4 chance of killing a power role is pretty good odds for them. Of course those odds change as power roles die off beforehand..... 2/3, 1/2 then I think the WIFOM increases, but hopefully we won't get to that point.
Or am I misreading or misunderstanding something? Let me know if I am.
No, your understanding is correct. But I think some WIFOM for scum is better than no WIFOM. The alternative is that scum know with 100% certainty they are killing a power role - or know with 100% certainty that they should hold off on killing (because the player claimed Pearl Diver). Anything that prevents scum from having 100% certainty is, I think, a good thing for Town.
The Cutpurse also has the alternative of using his power instead of generic-claiming (if he hasn't been chicken-cursed of course). So if the Cutpurse would normally use that alternative, then scum are looking at 1/3 WIFOM. I think whether the Cutpurse should do this or not should be purposefully left vague.
The one thing that I'm not sure about is what the power role should do if chicken-cursed. The "possibly the Pearl Diver" issue for scum doesn't matter then because a chicken-cursed Pearl Diver can't escape the nightkill. Would it be better for a chicken-cursed player to just claim normally? I would appreciate other players' views.
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I think we also need a way to communicate that something was messed up in the previous chicken post. There is huge potential for error here as one chicken added or left out by accident could completely change the game. I recommend using ~ 40 chickens to communicate that something was amiss in the previous post and that town is misintrepreting what chicken is trying to communicate.
It is hard enough to communicate with each other using words and misunderstandings happen all the time, I think this will be compounded by chickens and we need a way to communicate that so it can be corrected.
"Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken"
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I think using capitals every few "chickens" may be against the rules, yuma, but otherwise I agree with 40 chickens in a row being the "STOP YOU ARE WRONG" signal.
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I think using capitals every few "chickens" may be against the rules, yuma, but otherwise I agree with 40 chickens in a row being the "STOP YOU ARE WRONG" signal.
Oh, good point... ignore the capitals, that was just me using the first chicken with a capital C and then copying and pasting a bunch.
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Sorry, been gone for a while.
I like Voltgloss's Chicken Communication, but I think the only way it would work if everyone could memorize/copy down the chart.
Also think the ~40 Chicken panic post would be good to.
I dont have anything else to say except a note to any players who willl be Chickens: Dont post any uneccessary 'Chickens'. It'll just confuse us more.
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Chicken communication:
1. If I am responding to a question raised by another player, I will do so as follows:
Chicken Vote: <Player Asking Question>
Chicken (for yes)
Chicken chicken (for no)
Chicken chicken chicken (if the answer is neither yes nor no)
Chicken Unvote
2. If I am updating my "willingness-to-lynch" list, I will do so as follows:
Chicken chicken chicken chicken. (4x, signaling the start of my willingness-to-lynch list)
Chicken Vote: <Player I am least willing to Lynch>
Chicken Vote: <Next-least willing lynch>
...and so on up to...
Chicken Vote: <Second-most willing to lynch>
Chicken Vote: <Preferred lynch>
3. If at any time I am referring to someone who is at L-1, I will type "Chicken Vote: No Lynch" instead of that player's name. If I actually want to no-lynch, I will "Chicken Vote: No Lynch" twice in a row at the end of my post.
4. If I want to roleclaim, I will:
- type "Chicken" 12 times in one line, to signal a roleclaim;
- in my next line, type as follows:
--- Chicken. (for FV)
--- Chicken chicken. (for "generic power role")
--- Chicken chicken chicken. (for Ambassador)
--- Chicken chicken chicken chicken. (for Explorer)
--- Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken. (for Pearl Diver)
--- Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken. (for Cutpurse)
- and in the case of Ambassador or Explorer, give a series of Chicken Votes: <Player name> to identify (in order by Night) who I targeted each Night. If I need to refer to someone at L-1, I will use Chicken Vote: No Lynch.
I think we also need a way to communicate that something was messed up in the previous chicken post. There is huge potential for error here as one chicken added or left out by accident could completely change the game. I recommend using ~ 40 chickens to communicate that something was amiss in the previous post and that town is misintrepreting what chicken is trying to communicate.
It is hard enough to communicate with each other using words and misunderstandings happen all the time, I think this will be compounded by chickens and we need a way to communicate that so it can be corrected.
"chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken"
I dont have anything else to say except a note to any players who willl be Chickens: Dont post any uneccessary 'Chickens'. It'll just confuse us more.
I've combined the most recent ideas together above, and removed the capital letters. I agree with this system and will use it if I'm chickened.
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I think we can refer to certain post either abosulutely (numbers of chickens for post number, maybe prefaced with an Chicken unvote) or relatively (some start symbol, than number of chickens = Xth post after my last chicken post).
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Late here, but wanted to get some thoughts in on Volt's claiming idea. The logic reads sound to me, I think, but one question: since there wouldn't be a specific role claimed, our ability to counterclaim a scum lie is basically nil the day of the claim, right? Is the night of WIFOM worth the trade off? I can be convinced it is, but counterclaims have worked to catch scum (even when they come late, for those who remember my first ever mafia game) before. I think I understand the second part of your proposal as being the time that happens, on the following day if they survive, but if we lose the PR in the night, we also lose the counterclaim opportunity.
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Responding to Volt:
I agree with his chicken system.
Now, about claiming generic power role. Here's a different idea. If you are a power role, and you get to L-1, why not just claim Pearl Diver nstead of your real role? That way, the mafia almost certainly don't choose to kill you.
Of course if we're doing this, the real Pearl Diver has to know to keep his mouth shut, and it violates the "lynch all liars" ethos, and of course scum could do it, too.
Taking this plan one step further would be for the real Pearl Diver to claim, uh Explorer, if he gets to L-1. And then we actually can absorb a night kill.
Now, I'm not sure this actually works in execution. But perhaps worth considering. That we have no protective roles is worrying.
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Responding to Volt:
I agree with his chicken system.
Now, about claiming generic power role. Here's a different idea. If you are a power role, and you get to L-1, why not just claim Pearl Diver nstead of your real role? That way, the mafia almost certainly don't choose to kill you.
Of course if we're doing this, the real Pearl Diver has to know to keep his mouth shut, and it violates the "lynch all liars" ethos, and of course scum could do it, too.
Taking this plan one step further would be for the real Pearl Diver to claim, uh Explorer, if he gets to L-1. And then we actually can absorb a night kill.
Now, I'm not sure this actually works in execution. But perhaps worth considering. That we have no protective roles is worrying.
You know, people should read this and decide quietly what they are to do. If we announce it, all WIFOM loses meaning.
...
Or,.. you can all just not claim and leave mafia wondering (in case you survive).
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Responding to Volt:
I agree with his chicken system.
Now, about claiming generic power role. Here's a different idea. If you are a power role, and you get to L-1, why not just claim Pearl Diver nstead of your real role? That way, the mafia almost certainly don't choose to kill you.
Of course if we're doing this, the real Pearl Diver has to know to keep his mouth shut, and it violates the "lynch all liars" ethos, and of course scum could do it, too.
Taking this plan one step further would be for the real Pearl Diver to claim, uh Explorer, if he gets to L-1. And then we actually can absorb a night kill.
Now, I'm not sure this actually works in execution. But perhaps worth considering. That we have no protective roles is worrying.
You know, people should read this and decide quietly what they are to do. If we announce it, all WIFOM loses meaning.
...
Or,.. you can all just not claim and leave mafia wondering (in case you survive).
Yeah are we forgetting that mafia is reading/possibly participating in this discussion? Is it possible to have a consistent system here that mafia can't take advantage of?
Btw I will adhere to Volt's system with the 40 chicken addendum if I am cursed.
When is the cursing going down anyway?
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I think a general note to be cautious of claiming in this game, even at L-1 is really good, and even maybe a tacit endorsement of town PRs lying in certain cases. Any more of a plan than that and we help scum too much.
Of course, being ok with town lying makes me super nervous.
I am not sure, if I get Chickenified, you should expect a great deal of contribution from me. If I'm a chicken at L-1, I just won't claim. I'll use my Chicken vote in a pro-town way. Other than that, I don't think it will be fun OR useful for me to try to continue being a productive town member while under those constraints.
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When is the cursing going down anyway?
Pretty sure it's whenever Mafia decides to Curse somebody.
I'm to lazy to check the OP, but every 3rd day, 2 people get Cursed, right?
1 by the Mafia
and 1 by the Secret Town Curser.
Another thing, I don't think we can automatically assume the cursed player is town. The Mafia could Curse their own member to trick Town, or the Town Curser accidentally hitting one of the Mafia members.
I also want to echo Cuzz's statement:Yeah are we forgetting that mafia is reading/possibly participating in this discussion? Is it possible to have a consistent system here that mafia can't take advantage of?
We should definitely be cautious about what we say. I think claiming Pearl Diver when at L-1 is a great idea, but now that Mafia knows that plan, I'm not sure it'll work.
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And now, reads. This is not meant to be an exhaustive summary of everything everybody posted. It hits the highlights of posts/issues that jump out at me and shift my thinking away from the baseline nullread everyone gets at game-start.
Also, this only goes up to #364 (Insom's rundown post), as I need to leave the hospital now. So this is not yet complete. I am hoping I'll get to finish this before the curse deadline. But just in case I don't get to post between now and then, I wanted to at LEAST get this much out there, and hopefully a willingness-to-lynch list will make clear the rest of my reads (even if I have to post it as a chicken).
Also also, I have not yet had a chance to read anything posted after my previous post. I will work those into my follow-up reads summary.
Order of players is in order of sign-up, per the intro post.
shraeye
- I've already said that the "derphammer" comment left me with a nullread. That remains true on a reread.
- Good analysis re: the Archetype-vs.-ashersky question I teed up. Reading my mind in #329.
Robz888
- Jumped on Grujah quickwagon immediately after I started it... but then did not participate in the discussion at all until after I remarked on his being so quiet. Ten minutes later he posts.
- His reply #s 273 and 274 are hedges. Of the self-defeating "I think X but I also rebut it with Y" variety. He says CF is technically right that the chicken curse gives info, BUT also says in my support that we (as town) are unlikely to solve that WIFOM. He suspects Grujah from recent posts, BUT says that could be confirmation bias. He says Eevee and Insom just don't like quickwagons, BUT adds that Insom was scum in the last game he came out against quickwagons. (And then clarifies a few posts later that after reread, his comment didn't apply to Eevee.) So what content could we take away from those posts?
- Reply #284, voting ashersky, is a repeat of his jumping on the Grujah quickwagon. He defends in #291 after being suspected by Galz - "I'm following a literal lynch all lurkers policy" - but then does not participate in subsequent discussion of applying the LaL policy in a more thoughtful way - based on content, not just raw post count. (See #294, #296, #297)
- And then #308? "Hey scums, why so quiet?" When Robz himself is being quiet? When he has not responded to #294, #296, and #297?
- Robz clearly reads my #310 as being suspicious of him specifically. See his #311. A very quick OMGUS-style defensive reaction. Why didn't he give that reaction to Galz or Eevee or CF? Why didn't he engage in the discussion, instead throwing suspicion back at me and/or us? The funny thing is, I was NOT at all certain that I suspected Robz at the time - there were multiple votes on ashersky! - but Robz's kneejerk defensive response feels more like worried scum than indignant town.
Eevee
- There was some original analysis from Eevee with respect to the Grujah quickwagon, but since then I haven't seen a lot else from Eevee other than defending himself and joining others' suspicions (like calling out Robz for blindly following lynch-all-lurkers when Galz had already first made that case). #346 is an example of the kind of fairly minimal content Eevee has provided on others.
yuma
- I tend to agree with the analysis in #343, as mentioned previously.
Galzria
- He may have joined the Grujah wagon "late," but he did so while addressing the discussion up to that point AND participated in further discussion when Grujah appeared (including unvoting Grujah). I'm not seeing that as suspicious.
- Reply #289 - calling out Robz's vote on ashersky as disingenuous, and of scum using "lynch all lurkers" as a policy for their own votes - resonates very strongly with me.
Insomniac
- Jumping on and off the Grujah quickwagon may be odd, but I find it unlikely that scum!Insom would call that level of attention to himself so quickly. Caveat: I could see scum!Insom doing this if his scumbuddy is CF, to set up an early war between the two of them. I don't have a reason currently to think this is a likely pairing; but IF one of them turns out to be scum, I suggest a very hard look at the other one.
- I was not convinced by Insom's arguments as to why it was bad to put Grujah (or anyone) at L-2 early in the Day. But failing to be convinced of someone's arguments does not make them scum. This point reads null to me.
- I find it weird that the "Insom voting CF over a joke-VT claim" issue just sort of petered out after jo/Insom/CF's exchange in reply #s 201 to 205.
ashersky
- First post gives townreads on me, CF, and Robz for "most in-depth posts" - but without further detail or identifying the posts. I find quickbuddying without good explanation slightly suspicious. I've been buddied up by scum enough times to be wary of that as a tactic.
- I don't like the "I gave content, I talked about chickens"-style comment in #318. But then he comes back with reads and analysis in #326. That's the kind of content that's most important for folks to provide.
Captain_Frisk
- People have made comments about the "pause" before he voted the Grujah quickwagon, but that "pause" was like 8 minutes. I also think CF's quick-flip-flop between Insom and Grujah and back to Insom is pretty well explained by CF's own posts. See #s 174 to #179. I'm not seeing those actions of CF's as suspicious.
Grujah
- Started with the lurk, but what content has he provided since then?
- I don't like how in #243 Grujah refers to a post of Eevee's - about the need to move quick and move wagons -and analaysis along - and says "no way a scum would post this." Grujah's analysis just doesn't make sense, and I especially am concerned that its end result is a TOWNread on Eevee (buddying concern) - and a very confident townread.
- Interesting how Grujah resurrects suspicion on Insom in #243 and #250, yet no one bites. I feel like, if Grujah were town, then at least one scum would likely join him in pushing that suspicion (whether Insom is scum OR town). Yet no one did.
- In reply #270, Grujah says Archetype is "judging too much by semantics rather than content." Apparently referring to Archetype's #267. But I don't think Archetype's point there WAS about semantics. I queried whether we should lynch before curse deadline; Grujah said that was scummy and that we need to practice handling chicken communication; Archetype responded that we don't need to practice if we always lynch before curse deadline.
Archetype
- Sheeping Insom in his (Archetype's) first post, joining the vote on shraeye. Says he'll read back to get some good town/scum reads on people. <Did he?> Instead tunnels more on shraeye (see #251) and then unvotes when Shraeye explains (see #259). Then defends himself in #323 and talks about chickens/lurkers generally.
jotheonah
- Nothing has jumped out at me yet. Participation is very low, due to RL (congrats on the job!!) and to issues in other games.
Cuzz
- The flip-flop re: Archetype in response to my question (that yuma pointed out) remains a scumpoint against Cuzz.
- That said, #359 is some good analysis of the Grujah quickwagon.
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I think we also need a way to communicate that something was messed up in the previous chicken post. There is huge potential for error here as one chicken added or left out by accident could completely change the game. I recommend using ~ 40 chickens to communicate that something was amiss in the previous post and that town is misintrepreting what chicken is trying to communicate.
It is hard enough to communicate with each other using words and misunderstandings happen all the time, I think this will be compounded by chickens and we need a way to communicate that so it can be corrected.
"Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken"
This is a grand idea, there is a lot of room for misinterpretation/mistakes I think.
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I also want to echo Cuzz's statement:Yeah are we forgetting that mafia is reading/possibly participating in this discussion? Is it possible to have a consistent system here that mafia can't take advantage of?
We should definitely be cautious about what we say. I think claiming Pearl Diver when at L-1 is a great idea, but now that Mafia knows that plan, I'm not sure it'll work.
Absolutely. Having any sort of agreed upon system for claiming makes mafia's lives much much easier, as they then will have almost full information. Imma do what I want to do if I ever get to L-1. Systems are bad. Mass claiming is bad.
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Need to reread before I can post any content (will do asap), but theory idea: couldn't we decide that both the explorer and the pearl diver claim pearl diver? That way scum would have a 50% chance / wifom situation, which i better than 100% and 25% that have been suggested earlier.
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Need to reread before I can post any content (will do asap), but theory idea: couldn't we decide that both the explorer and the pearl diver claim pearl diver? That way scum would have a 50% chance / wifom situation, which i better than 100% and 25% that have been suggested earlier.
No systems, seriously.
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- Robz clearly reads my #310 as being suspicious of him specifically. See his #311. A very quick OMGUS-style defensive reaction. Why didn't he give that reaction to Galz or Eevee or CF? Why didn't he engage in the discussion, instead throwing suspicion back at me and/or us? The funny thing is, I was NOT at all certain that I suspected Robz at the time - there were multiple votes on ashersky! - but Robz's kneejerk defensive response feels more like worried scum than indignant town.
#311 didn't feel defensive to me, or really attacky. Just a bit miffed and possibly counterbalancing your opinion.
- Interesting how Grujah resurrects suspicion on Insom in #243 and #250, yet no one bites. I feel like, if Grujah were town, then at least one scum would likely join him in pushing that suspicion (whether Insom is scum OR town). Yet no one did.
I don't find that interesting. Those seem like really flimsy gut-feeling suspicions that he tried to build into an argument. I don't fault Grujah for those votes, but I would have been suspicious of anybody who quoted those and said "yeah, the man has a point!"
Cuzz
- The flip-flop re: Archetype in response to my question (that yuma pointed out) remains a scumpoint against Cuzz.
- That said, #359 is some good analysis of the Grujah quickwagon.
Though I bought his explanation and unvoted, Cuzz is still a character I'm interested in keeping a closer watch on.
Now that I've written up this response, i can't quite figure out why I decided I wanted to respond to your reads. But whatever, these are my thoughts.
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THREAD LOCKED
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The residents of the little fishing villagers argued heatedly amongst themselves, but could come to no resolutions. First they said the Sea Hags must be sitting in the back of the room; they were the least vocal! Then someone else said they must be someone who changed their mind; they were inconsistent!
Then Voltgloss stood up and said "Chicken chicken chicken!" He looked very confused. jotheonah stood up looking ready to shout at Voltgloss and shouted, "CHICKEN!"
Suddenly feathers sprouted from Voltgloss' face. He began to shrink and his nose and mouth morphed into a tiny beak. jotheonah's hair transformed into a red floppy comb as he started to shrink as well. Their arms sprouted feathers and reformed themselves into wings. Their legs shrunk. The shoes and their feet became tiny, leathery, and pointy claws formed on their ends.
Where Voltgloss and jotheonah had previously stood sat two very confused looking chickens.
"Chicken," clucked Voltgloss.
"Chicken, chicken," jotheonah clucked back. He pecked at the ground in front of him.
Currently Cursed: Voltgloss, jotheonah
Curse deadline: Tuesday Oct 23, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
Lynch deadline: Tuesday Oct 23, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
THREAD UNLOCKED...
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I'd bet on Volt being scum pick. Whether he is scum also, I don't know.
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It's as if Volt knew he was going to be cursed..
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I'm super apprehensive about trying to determine alignment based on who's cursed. Not saying it's impossible, but I don't think it will be obvious. The naive thing to do is for scum to curse town, but of course then they'll want to curse each other once in a while wifomwifomwifom.
It's as if Volt knew he was going to be cursed..
This is interesting, but I've getting such a townish read on Volt and a scummy read on you, Eevee, that I can't help but think you might have cursed Volt just to try to frame him like this.
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Chicken.
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I'm super apprehensive about trying to determine alignment based on who's cursed. Not saying it's impossible, but I don't think it will be obvious. The naive thing to do is for scum to curse town, but of course then they'll want to curse each other once in a while wifomwifomwifom.
It's as if Volt knew he was going to be cursed..
This is interesting, but I've been getting such a townish read on Volt and a scummy read on you, Eevee, that I can't help but think you might have cursed Volt just to try to frame him like this.
I accidentally a word above.
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It's as if Volt knew he was going to be cursed..
If Volt didn't make a huge plan about it, I would be suspicion. I mean, It's Volt, he's like Batman when it comes to Mafia setup-stuff, he analyzes everything about it. It would be unlike him to not be prepared.
What Cuzz said, makes sense.
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Oh, I have a town read on Volt too, and it's not like what he did was a particularly clever scum move if that's what it was.. just noting. Also worth noting I think, Volt is perfectly capable of being this active and analytical when scum. But still, either the curser in scum team though it would look weird if Volt DIDN'T get cursed (they dont have daytalk) or he is town and got cursed so he'd have to shut up. I think latter is much more likely, but former still possible.
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Chicken.
Jo are you trying to actually communicate something here?
Chicken for yes, chicken chicken for no. If so, chicken vote the person you're responding to.
And if not, please try to avoid meaningless chickens.
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Grujah and Cuzz, why would it be me in particular who'd want to do that? My impression is that Volt would be the natural choice to curse for pretty much any possible curser.
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Chicken Chicken.
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Hmm we can't forget the system, otherwise people would misinterpret things quicker.
I can put the system we created into my signature, so we won't forget.
Is that fine with everyone?
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And by quicker I meant easier.
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Grujah and Cuzz, why would it be me in particular who'd want to do that? My impression is that Volt would be the natural choice to curse for pretty much any possible curser.
I agree with this 100%.
My issue is just that you seemed really eager to cast suspicion on Volt in the moments just after the cursing. Not that he deserves none I suppose, but I just found it suspicious that your very first thought was to paint Volt as possibly scummy for being cursed, as if he had planned it with his buddies.
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I'd bet on Volt being scum pick. Whether he is scum also, I don't know.
It's as if Volt knew he was going to be cursed..
I don't understand either of these conclusions. I have zero information about whether Volt/Joth was the scumpick, and I don't know how someone could say that one of them looks like a scum-pick.
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Cuz Volt is likely to lead a town, he is good candidate for chickening.
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Cuz Volt is likely to lead a town, he is good candidate for chickening.
Then you should take Volt's place and lead town.
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Grujah and Cuzz, why would it be me in particular who'd want to do that? My impression is that Volt would be the natural choice to curse for pretty much any possible curser.
I agree with this 100%.
My issue is just that you seemed really eager to cast suspicion on Volt in the moments just after the cursing. Not that he deserves none I suppose, but I just found it suspicious that your very first thought was to paint Volt as possibly scummy for being cursed, as if he had planned it with his buddies.
I disagree with Cuzz, and agree with Eevee. The first thing I thought after seeing Volt was chickened was whether he wanted it done to himself, as if designed to make him seem more townish. Could easily be a plot.
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Grujah and Cuzz, why would it be me in particular who'd want to do that? My impression is that Volt would be the natural choice to curse for pretty much any possible curser.
I agree with this 100%.
My issue is just that you seemed really eager to cast suspicion on Volt in the moments just after the cursing. Not that he deserves none I suppose, but I just found it suspicious that your very first thought was to paint Volt as possibly scummy for being cursed, as if he had planned it with his buddies.
That's ridiculous, scum can't even plan this because they don't have daytalk.
@shraeye
What Grujah said.
It feels to me like Cuzz, Grujah and shraeye are all intentionally trying to paint me in bad light. Not sure what to make of it, I know I can lock onto a target like that as town if I think I've found scum, but still..
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Grujah and Cuzz, why would it be me in particular who'd want to do that? My impression is that Volt would be the natural choice to curse for pretty much any possible curser.
I agree with this 100%.
My issue is just that you seemed really eager to cast suspicion on Volt in the moments just after the cursing. Not that he deserves none I suppose, but I just found it suspicious that your very first thought was to paint Volt as possibly scummy for being cursed, as if he had planned it with his buddies.
That's ridiculous, scum can't even plan this because they don't have daytalk.
@shraeye
What Grujah said.
It feels to me like Cuzz, Grujah and shraeye are all intentionally trying to paint me in bad light. Not sure what to make of it, I know I can lock onto a target like that as town if I think I've found scum, but still..
Except they COULD have because Jorbles DID say he gave them pregame talk, and they DID control who they wanted to chicken. Seriously, how is it even remotely impossible for them to have it planned?
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Grujah and Cuzz, why would it be me in particular who'd want to do that? My impression is that Volt would be the natural choice to curse for pretty much any possible curser.
I agree with this 100%.
My issue is just that you seemed really eager to cast suspicion on Volt in the moments just after the cursing. Not that he deserves none I suppose, but I just found it suspicious that your very first thought was to paint Volt as possibly scummy for being cursed, as if he had planned it with his buddies.
That's ridiculous, scum can't even plan this because they don't have daytalk.
I'm pretty sure scum would know that scum could plan this and would consider that when writing stuff like this. So, this is a stupid but townish reply, imo.
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I guess, but they would have had to plan Volt taking a leading role like that, and most importantly, no one else was making posts like Volt's in case they get chickened - why would Volt do it and possibly hint us he knew it was happening?
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I guess, but they would have had to plan Volt taking a leading role like that, and most importantly, no one else was making posts like Volt's in case they get chickened - why would Volt do it and possibly hint us he knew it was happening?
You've just said that it is expected for Volt to lead town (even if scum). Didn't you?
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I guess, but they would have had to plan Volt taking a leading role like that, and most importantly, no one else was making posts like Volt's in case they get chickened - why would Volt do it and possibly hint us he knew it was happening?
You've just said that it is expected for Volt to lead town (even if scum). Didn't you?
Well, it's certainly not a surprise. Still, sounds like an unnecessary gambit for day 1, it's not like scum has had much difficulties in getting townies lynched just playing normally.
Suspecting Volt now that he can't defend himself also feels rather unfair / unproductive.
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Wait, maybe I don't agree with Eevee. I'm confused as to who is arguing what.
I think Volt could have absolutely planned to be typical, pro-town Volt, mimic his own town play, and have planned for his fellow Hag to curse him.
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Wait, maybe I don't agree with Eevee. I'm confused as to who is arguing what.
I think Volt could have absolutely planned to be typical, pro-town Volt, mimic his own town play, and have planned for his fellow Hag to curse him.
I'm saying he could have, but that it isn't likely enough to warrant lynching him or even suspecting more than earlier.
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Volt getting chickened (I assume intentionally) actually does make me suspect him a bit more.
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Chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken Vote: yuma
Chicken Vote: Galzria
Chicken Vote: shraeye
Chicken Vote: Captain_Frisk
Chicekn Vote: Insomniac
Chicken Vote: Archetype
Chicken Vote: Cuzz
Chicken Vote: ashersky
Chicken Vote: Eevee
Chicken Vote: jotheonah
Chicken Vote: Grujah
Chicken Vote: Robz888
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For those of you who forgot, that's Volt's scum reads from least to most.
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For those of you who forgot, that's Volt's scum reads from least to most.
I think you got that wrong. It's most to least, I'm quite sure.
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For those of you who forgot, that's Volt's scum reads from least to most.
I think you got that wrong. It's most to least, I'm quite sure.
Wink wink.
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Why Robz?
Chicken yes if it is still the same things as in you #421. If it is something new, chicken X times for each digit in post number.
A thing just came to my mind. JO was lurking most of the game (and was not scrutinized as I was!), and now he's a chicken. If Hags turned him into a chicken, it's to use the recent "lynch all lurkers" against him.
PPE: 3
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A thing just came to my mind. JO was lurking most of the game (and was not scrutinized as I was!), and now he's a chicken. If Hags turned him into a chicken, it's to use the recent "lynch all lurkers" against him.
PPE: 3
Since I am fairly certain Volt was the target of the Sea Hags (though he may be a Sea Hag himself), I disagree that any planning went into chickening Jo. That was random, I would bet.
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That looks like more likely scenario just in case, but I found it was worth mentioning this too.
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Though, again, why wasn't jo as scrutinized as I was? Job?
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Chicken Vote: Grujah
Chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken Unvote
Chicken Vote: Robz888
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I guess, but they would have had to plan Volt taking a leading role like that, and most importantly, no one else was making posts like Volt's in case they get chickened - why would Volt do it and possibly hint us he knew it was happening?
I'm pretty sure we could all plan on Volt taking a leading role. Also, other people have gone through what they would say as a chicken, and this can correspond to what each person thinks is important. Like I would want to be able to agree to, or disagree with people's posts and arguments. So I might say something like
Chickenvote: eevee
chicken
chickenunvote
to agree with your last post.
it's going to be a wild ride, with all this chickening.
Lastly, I don't have any beef with you, nor did I ever feel like I was suspecting you. Why did you feel this way?
It feels to me like Cuzz, Grujah and shraeye are all intentionally trying to paint me in bad light. Not sure what to make of it, I know I can lock onto a target like that as town if I think I've found scum, but still..
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I'd bet on Volt being scum pick. Whether he is scum also, I don't know.
It's as if Volt knew he was going to be cursed..
I don't understand either of these conclusions. I have zero information about whether Volt/Joth was the scumpick, and I don't know how someone could say that one of them looks like a scum-pick.
It was because of this post, but I guess it's actually mostly Cuzz.
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Translation: These two posts:
It's time for a quick rundown of Insomniacs thoughts thus far!
1. shraeye - slight scum. Expressed a desire to derphammer because others didn't want it, hasn't posted any traditional shraeye big posts yet. (Not too worried on the latter)
2. Robz888 - Pretty normal. He's been quieter than normal but he expressed depression because of M12 has been actively trying to lynch lurkers. Null read
3. Voltgloss - Null read. Volts posts have striken me as traditional Volt but he has been pushing the new lynch lurkers meta a bit harder then I suspected given that it came from a game where 1 of the mafia was the most active player.
4. Eevee - Has been different this game but he's been having a bunch of confidence, Eevee is normally town and normally thinks I'm scum. I think he's a bit more scummy this game because of his acting differently but I normally find Eevee a bit scummy.
5. yuma - Quieter yuma as to be expected, I'd like to see more from him as normally he has some pretty good ideas as town. Null
6. Galzria - A bit scummy. Has expressed happiness that DS is pursuing lynch all lurkers meta but hasn't actually joined in on any of the wagons has tried to appear associated with the Grujah wagon. I would be highly suspect of Galz is Grujah is scum.
7. Insomniac - Obvtown.
8. ashersky - Was pretty low on the post count and content and when called out tried to do more of both. If I got called out as scum for either of those I would definetly respond similarily. Highest scum read which still doesn't say too much at this point in the game.
9. Captain_Frisk - slight town. I was getting a scum read off of him but his posts have done a lot to clear that up for me, I genuinely feel like he thinks I'm scum and that makes his voting for me feel more town.
10. Grujah - Slight scum. Hard to put into words why I'm just getting the scum Grujah vibe more than the town Grujah vibe.
11. Archetype - Nullish read, I gave him a FoS for what seemed to be buddying up to me he answered it adequately IMO.
12. jotheonah - Low post count, in a lot of games just got a new job. Null read, look forward to seeing more posts so that I can get a better read.
13. Cuzz - More talkative then in MXII where he was the doctor, I'm getting a scum read from some of his posts and a town read in others, so he's getting a null from me right now. In MXII he claimed he was trying to seem scummy, and man did he so I'm not sure what scum Cuzz would look like.
I agree with everything Insomniac said. Every single thing. Every word.
Robz, what are your thoughts on Galz? In your own words, please.
I would be interested as well since he just claimed to agree 100% with a completely fabricated set of statements on me.
I see. That seems quite bad, agreeing completely without something that ain't true, and not checking it after posting such a bold claim. I actually missed the Galz-drama part.
Ins making those claims.. town or scum? Ugh.
Robz's day 1 hard push from start resembles townRobz MXII, but it can easily be planned. Hmm......
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Man, so much always happens when I am sleeping!
To comment on what's happened, I don't think we can safely assume which chicken was cursed randomly and by scum, although it sure looks like Volt would have been on purpose.
On the "maybe he set himself up to look this way" argument floating around, it sounds like a few folks are going back and forth on this. Here's my take on those people:
Grujah mentions the possibility first, offhandedly. I don't think of this is the beginning. Eevee comes in with a stronger suspicion, and this seems to be the true beginning. To me, it reads as just wondering, not really accusatory. He was just airing an idea, I think. Cuzz and Grujah follow with disagreement, then Eevee clarifies. A bit later, Cuzz is back pointing out how it seemed Eevee wanted to cast suspicion.
I think up to that point, the exchange was sensible. I think Cuzz looks worst in that grouping, but I think when you get focused on a scum read, you can seem that way. I don't think Eevee was trying to get anything rolling on Volt.
So then Robz comes in on the Volt plot side.
The discussion that follows is the likelihood/ability for scum to have planned it out. I think it's consensus that everyone who's played with Volt before could have expected volt to take the lead he did.
Robz comes back, ignoring that portion of the conversation, and again makes strong statements of suspicion against Volt. Note: what I think is scummy about that (post 452 for reference) is that he continues to try and make it seem like it is someone else's idea, but I think by that point, it's been discussed enough that its disingenuous to do that.
A few posts later, he says he assumes Volt got chickened intentionally. volt gives us his reads, with Robz at the top of his list, Robz does his wink wink post.
I think that is the whole of the Volt plot thread. My take is that while Volt could have planned all this, I don't think it's the most likely scenario. I do think looking at how all that discussion about it played out is very useful though, and I think Robz looks worst there. Pushing the a volt suspicion, trying to look like he's sheeping something that's stronger than it really is, his jokey brush off of volt's suspicion...all together gives me a strong scum vibe. Enough for a vote: Robz.
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I think that is the whole of the Volt plot thread. My take is that while Volt could have planned all this, I don't think it's the most likely scenario. I do think looking at how all that discussion about it played out is very useful though, and I think Robz looks worst there. Pushing the a volt suspicion, trying to look like he's sheeping something that's stronger than it really is, his jokey brush off of volt's suspicion...all together gives me a strong scum vibe. Enough for a vote: Robz.
I pushed the Volt situation because it's an important suspicion to have. I can easily see us treating chickens like obvtowns, and that would be a huge mistake, because I expect scum manipulation of the chickening. And I would expect it from Voltgloss. Other than the cursing, Voltgloss has read town to me, sure. That's why I'm not voting him yet. But I'm giving the cursing serious though, and cursing Volt looks like a so obvious-it's-actually-not move for scum.
I wasn't trying to make it look like I was sheeping anyone, I was legitimately confused I whether or not Eevee suspected Volt had cursed himself.
The joke is definitely scummy looking in retrospect, but I filter myself way less when I am town.
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So there's my reply to ashersky, who I think is pretty scummy-seeming, and I have already voted him on lurking, and I'm not switching for the moment.
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To clear up some confusion on my end, when Eevee posted this:
It's as if Volt knew he was going to be cursed..
I may have read too much into it. I interpreted Eevee as essentially saying "It's as if Volt knew he was going to be cursed because he had worked it out with his scumbuddies" or something like that. I thought Eevee was trying to say here that this was evidence for Volt being scum.
I think now that Eevee just meant that Volt might have suspected he would get cursed because Volt had been taking a leadership role.
This was the reasoning behind most of my posts right after the cursing, so hopefully this makes a bit more sense now.
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I wholeheartedly sympathize ashersky on the difficulty of participating from a different timezone. When you come online after sleeping/working/drinking and see two pages of new messages, the best you can really do is write a long post about your opinions on stuff that happened when you were offline. Much like ashersky did here. Only getting in one post a is not lurking if it happens like that and no one is seans to comment the long post you write.. until tomorrow when you'll be late to the party again.
On an unrelated note, how has Australia been ashersky?
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To comment on what's happened, I don't think we can safely assume which chicken was cursed randomly and by scum, although it sure looks like Volt would have been on purpose.
Man comments like this just look awful to me. You manage to completely contradict yourself within a single sentence here.
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To comment on what's happened, I don't think we can safely assume which chicken was cursed randomly and by scum, although it sure looks like Volt would have been on purpose.
Man comments like this just look awful to me. You manage to completely contradict yourself within a single sentence here.
How so? He says he doesn't see a way we can be sure, but agrees it would look like Volt was the targeted chickenification.
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Vote Count 1.6:
Grujah (1): Eevee
Insomniac (1): Grujah
Eevee (2): jotheonah, Cuzz
ashersky (2): Insomniac, Robz888
Robz888 (4): Galzria, Captain_Frisk, Voltgloss, ashersky
Cuzz (1): yuma
Not voting (2): Archetype, shraeye
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Currently Cursed: Voltgloss, jotheonah
Curse deadline: Tuesday Oct 23, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
Lynch deadline: Tuesday Oct 23, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
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To comment on what's happened, I don't think we can safely assume which chicken was cursed randomly and by scum, although it sure looks like Volt would have been on purpose.
Man comments like this just look awful to me. You manage to completely contradict yourself within a single sentence here.
How so? He says he doesn't see a way we can be sure, but agrees it would look like Volt was the targeted chickenification.
I just find it hedgy and devoid of content.
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I think it would be nice to hear from volt and jotheonah on this issue.
Voltgloss and jotheonah could you respond in chicken yes or chicken no to this question? Do you think that you were the chicken curse target of scum?
I personally don't think it is super conducive to over analyze which one was targeted by the scum curse. I think some analysis would be good, but it certainly should not be the reason to vote for someone. However, I do think it is worth looking at those who are over analyzing and trying to interpret and potentially spin the chicken cursing in a certain direction. That is what I will look at more heavily tomorrow morning.
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I personally don't think it is super conducive to over analyze which one was targeted by the scum curse. I think some analysis would be good, but it certainly should not be the reason to vote for someone. However, I do think it is worth looking at those who are over analyzing and trying to interpret and potentially spin the chicken cursing in a certain direction. That is what I will look at more heavily tomorrow morning.
Agreed, i was trying to find the words to say this right. You beat me to it.
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Chicken vote: yuma
Chicken.
Chicken unvote
Chicken vote: Robz888
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To comment on what's happened, I don't think we can safely assume which chicken was cursed randomly and by scum, although it sure looks like Volt would have been on purpose.
Man comments like this just look awful to me. You manage to completely contradict yourself within a single sentence here.
How so? He says he doesn't see a way we can be sure, but agrees it would look like Volt was the targeted chickenification.
I just find it hedgy and devoid of content.
Did you notice the rest of my post, which included content and no hedging?
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I wholeheartedly sympathize ashersky on the difficulty of participating from a different timezone. When you come online after sleeping/working/drinking and see two pages of new messages, the best you can really do is write a long post about your opinions on stuff that happened when you were offline. Much like ashersky did here. Only getting in one post a is not lurking if it happens like that and no one is seans to comment the long post you write.. until tomorrow when you'll be late to the party again.
On an unrelated note, how has Australia been ashersky?
Australia is great, thanks. Coming from the U.S., its funny how different it can be. I have lived in a lot of countries around the world as a kid and adult, and it's always fun to go someplace new.
I am trying not to lurk in any games, but I do post when there are relatively few people on, so I don't get a lot of responses right away or back and forth going. So maybe it looks like I don't post a lot. Not sure what to do about it, though.
So there's my reply to ashersky, who I think is pretty scummy-seeming, and I have already voted him on lurking, and I'm not switching for the moment.
On this, I appreciate that you responded, with more info than you had been providing. On your point that we don't treat chickens as obv town, I agree. The focus on Volt though still seems off to me, and there's been no talk/pressure on Joth, the other chicken. As grujah pointed out, he was lurking before being cursed, but not much attention there, before or after chickening.
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Chicken vote: yuma
Chicken chicken.
Chicken unvote.
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Chicken vote: Robz888
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Robz is playing suspiciously, but I don't like the wagon because mafia Robz would know better than raise all this suspicion.So I see where these votes are coming from, but am afraid we are heading towards a mislynch.
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Robz is playing suspiciously, but I don't like the wagon because mafia Robz would know better than raise all this suspicion.So I see where these votes are coming from, but am afraid we are heading towards a mislynch.
Now that sounded hedgy...I don't think you meant it to, but it did.
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I see why are voting Robz, but I don't think scumrobz would play this suspicious. But Robz dear friend, I'm not sure you realize this but being the day1 lynchee is pretty weak town play!
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Robz behavior and ashersky's accusation are both interesting to me. Now, I REALLY have to study today, but I'll try to get around posting my views, after I review the situation.
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Robz is playing suspiciously, but I don't like the wagon because mafia Robz would know better than raise all this suspicion.So I see where these votes are coming from, but am afraid we are heading towards a mislynch.
Now that sounded hedgy...I don't think you meant it to, but it did.
Uh, when did we start going after hedginess, again? Some hedginess isn't scummy, it's practical. Excessive heginess, sure.
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Robz is playing suspiciously, but I don't like the wagon because mafia Robz would know better than raise all this suspicion.So I see where these votes are coming from, but am afraid we are heading towards a mislynch.
I'm seriously not sure what's so suspicious about me, other than the natural suspicion I seem to accrue on Day 1.
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Robz is playing suspiciously, but I don't like the wagon because mafia Robz would know better than raise all this suspicion.So I see where these votes are coming from, but am afraid we are heading towards a mislynch.
Now that sounded hedgy...I don't think you meant it to, but it did.
Uh, when did we start going after hedginess, again? Some hedginess isn't scummy, it's practical. Excessive heginess, sure.
Not sure the answer to your question, but I wasn't going after it so much as pointing out it sounded hedgy.
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Robz is playing suspiciously, but I don't like the wagon because mafia Robz would know better than raise all this suspicion.So I see where these votes are coming from, but am afraid we are heading towards a mislynch.
Now that sounded hedgy...I don't think you meant it to, but it did.
Uh, when did we start going after hedginess, again? Some hedginess isn't scummy, it's practical. Excessive heginess, sure.
Not sure the answer to your question, but I wasn't going after it so much as pointing out it sounded hedgy.
Oh come on now. Come on.
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Ashersky is always a shady character, but I think he's much shadier in this game than usual. He wasn't criticizing Eevee's hedginess, just pointing it out? What's the point of that? He's finger-pointing, and when he's called out on it, he says he didn't mean anything by it. Quite scummy behavior.
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Robz is playing suspiciously, but I don't like the wagon because mafia Robz would know better than raise all this suspicion.So I see where these votes are coming from, but am afraid we are heading towards a mislynch.
Now that sounded hedgy...I don't think you meant it to, but it did.
Uh, when did we start going after hedginess, again? Some hedginess isn't scummy, it's practical. Excessive heginess, sure.
Not sure the answer to your question, but I wasn't going after it so much as pointing out it sounded hedgy.
Oh come on now. Come on.
Well, the line pointing out Eevee's hedginess was awful hedgy, wasn't it?
PPE: Robz OMGUS
Ashersky is always a shady character, but I think he's much shadier in this game than usual. He wasn't criticizing Eevee's hedginess, just pointing it out? What's the point of that? He's finger-pointing, and when he's called out on it, he says he didn't mean anything by it. Quite scummy behavior.
Making an observation is scummy? I was noting something that stuck out to me, which could be useful or not in the future. We all do this.
Robz is playing suspiciously, but I don't like the wagon because mafia Robz would know better than raise all this suspicion.So I see where these votes are coming from, but am afraid we are heading towards a mislynch.
Now that sounded hedgy...I don't think you meant it to, but it did.
Uh, when did we start going after hedginess, again? Some hedginess isn't scummy, it's practical. Excessive heginess, sure.
Also, I'll note that in your most recent post, you said that it was scummy I pointed out the hedginess without criticizing it, but in your original post I was responding to, you were complaining that we shouldn't go after hedginess, given "some...isn't scummy, it's practical." (See bolded parts) So it's scummy that I mentioned it, or scummy that I wasn't tougher on it? Inconsistent.
As Eevee points out, Robz is one of the smartest, best mafia players on f.ds, and as such, the "he's too smart to seem so suspicious" argument doesn't work for me, because he's smart enough to seem so suspicious so he won't be suspected. Still my strongest scumread.
And where's everyone else? I woke up today to much less. Sunday effect?
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YOU are the OMGUSer, not me. I voted for you first, man.
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Also, I'll note that in your most recent post, you said that it was scummy I pointed out the hedginess without criticizing it, but in your original post I was responding to, you were complaining that we shouldn't go after hedginess, given "some...isn't scummy, it's practical." (See bolded parts) So it's scummy that I mentioned it, or scummy that I wasn't tougher on it? Inconsistent.
But it doesn't make much sense to point out hedginess if you aren't actually going to argue that it's scummy. Pointing it out for the sake of pointing it out is scummy, because it's as if you're just throwing stuff out there to see what sticks.
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As Eevee points out, Robz is one of the smartest, best mafia players on f.ds, and as such, the "he's too smart to seem so suspicious" argument doesn't work for me, because he's smart enough to seem so suspicious so he won't be suspected. Still my strongest scumread.
It is true that I am smart enough to seem so suspicious I won't be suspected (and will have to in fact do this in future games where I am scum, sadly), but I disagree that I have done anything suspicious. Honestly, what have I done that's suspicious? I don't see it, personally.
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As Eevee points out, Robz is one of the smartest, best mafia players on f.ds, and as such, the "he's too smart to seem so suspicious" argument doesn't work for me, because he's smart enough to seem so suspicious so he won't be suspected. Still my strongest scumread.
It is true that I am smart enough to seem so suspicious I won't be suspected (and will have to in fact do this in future games where I am scum, sadly), but I disagree that I have done anything suspicious. Honestly, what have I done that's suspicious? I don't see it, personally.
I'd have to reread to be able to pinpoint the exact posts, but why do you think you are the largest wagon if your play hasn't been suspect? Is it because it's scum-driven, or because people just always vote you for being Robz?
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As Eevee points out, Robz is one of the smartest, best mafia players on f.ds, and as such, the "he's too smart to seem so suspicious" argument doesn't work for me, because he's smart enough to seem so suspicious so he won't be suspected. Still my strongest scumread.
It is true that I am smart enough to seem so suspicious I won't be suspected (and will have to in fact do this in future games where I am scum, sadly), but I disagree that I have done anything suspicious. Honestly, what have I done that's suspicious? I don't see it, personally.
I'd have to reread to be able to pinpoint the exact posts, but why do you think you are the largest wagon if your play hasn't been suspect? Is it because it's scum-driven, or because people just always vote you for being Robz?
I think there are at least some scum pushing for me. Ashersky, maybe, for one. Also, to some extent, when you have a narrative against you that you've "been scummy" other people buy into it without knowing what it even is. I don't know what it is. Galzria pounced on me for my initial vote on Ashersky. I don't begrudge him that, although Ashersky looks a lot worse to me now than he did at the time I voted for him. I've expressed reservations about how/who cursed Volt, which shower a bit of susipicion on Volt himself, so he isn't thanking me for that. The rest of them--Frisk, Jo--who knows? In general, I would like to believe there are scum leading this... but we all know the town is perfectly capable of driving wagons against townies with little mafia help. Are the mafia sitting back and lurking? OR driving this? Or doing both? We can't know yet.
Additionally, I seem to be an easy Day 1 target these days. I haven't been completely safe on Day since Mafia VIII (when I was mafia!).
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That last sentence: "Additionally, I seem to be an easy Day 1 target these days. I haven't been completely safe on Day ONE since Mafia VIII (when I was mafia!)."
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I think I am L-2, by the way, so let's be careful.
If there is a case against me, I truly don't know what it is. Ashersky has come the closest to articulating one, which I thank him for, but it was garbage coming from the single scummiest person. Anyone else have a case on me?
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YOU are the OMGUSer, not me. I voted for you first, man.
Could we stop using OMGUS like it's a serious thing. It really isn't at this point. All of f.DS gets so hopped up about OMGUS votes, that all scum know they shouldn't do it. So that that it ever does is serve as a nice town v. town distraction, or a classy way for scum to push suspicion further onto a towny that they decided to vote for.
Also with regard to the Robz wagon, I agree that something fishy is going on. Or at least something bad. I have no idea what the case is. Everybody seems to be voting for him for either nebulous reasons, completely different reasons, or totally nonexistant (sheeping) reasons.
What the hell is the case against him? If this could be stated by somebody and agreed by others, I'd be a lot less angry/suspicious at this ridiculous wagon.
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Chicken vote: shraeye
Chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken.
Chicken.
Chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken Unvote
Chicken Vote: Robz888
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If that was supposed to convey something, can anyone translate?
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I think those are all post numbers. 421 (Volt's big post) than 190 (a comment about robz going quite after a post). Can't do rest right now.
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Chicken Vote: Grujah
Chicken.
Chicken Unvote
Chicken Vote: Robz888
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Did a bit of catching up, not too much for me to say except: I don't think Robz is scum.
I think scum found Robz as an easy bandwagon target and are using that to get him lynched. The same thing was going to happen to Grujah before he responded and the bandwagon got dropped.
I'm going to go back and check the people on the Grujah wagon, and those on the Robz wagon and see if I can find any similarities.
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Grujah Wagon: Voltgloss, Robz888, Eevee, Captain_Frisk
Robz Wagon: Galzria, Captain_Frisk, Voltgloss, ashersky, jotheonah
I'm going to do a: Fos: C_F
And a Vote: Voltgloss Would scum chickenize themselves to avoid suspicion? As smart as Voltgloss is, I think yes.
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Grujah Wagon: Voltgloss, Robz888, Eevee, Captain_Frisk
Robz Wagon: Galzria, Captain_Frisk, Voltgloss, ashersky, jotheonah
I'm going to do a: Fos: C_F
And a Vote: Voltgloss Would scum chickenize themselves to avoid suspicion? As smart as Voltgloss is, I think yes.
The only problem with this thoery is, well, I don't really think who voted for Grujah matters much. My vote for him was serious, and I'm sure the others were too... but it was never actually going to lead to lynch. It was too quick. So I'm not sure that mafia had to make the decision to drive, deflect, avoid, or join the wagon. It just wasn't going to matter.
Separately, I do find it suspicious that so many of the experts are voting for me when there is no reason to do so.
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Grujah Wagon: Voltgloss, Robz888, Eevee, Captain_Frisk
Robz Wagon: Galzria, Captain_Frisk, Voltgloss, ashersky, jotheonah
I'm going to do a: Fos: C_F
And a Vote: Voltgloss Would scum chickenize themselves to avoid suspicion? As smart as Voltgloss is, I think yes.
The only problem with this thoery is, well, I don't really think who voted for Grujah matters much. My vote for him was serious, and I'm sure the others were too... but it was never actually going to lead to lynch. It was too quick. So I'm not sure that mafia had to make the decision to drive, deflect, avoid, or join the wagon. It just wasn't going to matter.
Separately, I do find it suspicious that so many of the experts are voting for me when there is no reason to do so.
True, but Eevee's pressure vote comment made it seem like it could have been.
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Gah... my interent has been down since early morning and it is finally back on now that I am about to head to sleep. Haven't read anything since early this morning... Depending on amount will try to reread and post something before bed.
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reread didn't happen... you'll have to wait til tomorrow after work.
Man this is super frustrating as today was supposed to be my mafia catch up day.
Stupid Comcast.
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Vote Count 1.7:
Grujah (1): Eevee
Insomniac (1): Grujah
Eevee (1): Cuzz
ashersky (2): Insomniac, Robz888
Robz888 (5): Galzria, Captain_Frisk, ashersky, jotheonah, Voltgloss
Cuzz (1): yuma
Voltgloss (1): Archetype
Not voting (1): shraeye
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Currently Cursed: Voltgloss, jotheonah
Curse deadline: Tuesday Oct 23, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
Lynch deadline: Tuesday Oct 23, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
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Wug the lynch deadline is tomorrow!?
Everyone abandon the Robz wagon asap or we won't have time to build a new one?
Vote: jotheonah no one is suspecting him, that's always scummy. Grujah was an ok place for my vote too.
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So sorry for the absence as I noted elsewhere was unavailable Friday and them a friend came over from out of town yesterday and today was my grandpas 70th birthday.
anyways I could see robz being scum and some of his play has seemed quite different from normal and robz did say in the next game he was scum he was going to try to be obvscum to try and get away with it but wifom and I believe robz to be town.
Mostly because robz has even getting lynched a lot lately as town so I'm inclined to believe he is playing different to try to be more useful to town
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Wug the lynch deadline is tomorrow!?
Everyone abandon the Robz wagon asap or we won't have time to build a new one?
Vote: jotheonah no one is suspecting him, that's always scummy. Grujah was an ok place for my vote too.
Technically you have 38+ hours for the lynch (time zones).
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There isn't a single player right now who I could name as likely town, so I would literally vote for anyone other than myself.
I have yet to understand the case against me from a Frisk/Galzria/Jotheonah perspective. I get why Volt and ashersky might not like me, as I've been after them more than others.
For me, ashersky is the best choice. I did not like him calling out hedginess, and then retreating to "Well, I didn't say hedginess was suspicious!" If you call something out, you're making something of it. And he did lurk earlier. Actually, if someone would do a post count, perhaps we could simply lynch whomever has the fewest posts? I'm sure we have a better than 1/13 chance of killing scum if we do that, fwiw.
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Chicken vote: Robz. Chicken.
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I forgot Joth is a chicken.. He can't really defending himself or give out town vibes in that condition, so Unvote.
Vote: yuma Similar reasons than joth. I'm fine with any wagon I don't dislike.
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So, a post count, total posts:
Name: Total/Pre-Chickening/percentage of total posts
Shraeye: 32/27/7.5%
Robz888: 46/26/10.7%
Voltgloss: 37/32/8.6%
Eevee: 49/32/11.4%
yuma: 13/10/3%
Galz: 29/28/6.8%
Insom: 47/46/11%
ashersky: 23/17/5.4%
CF: 51/51/11.9%
Grujah: 42/31/9.8%
Arch: 15/10/3.5%
joth: 13/8/3%
Cuzz: 32/25/7.5%
For what it's worth, here's everyone's contribution. Now, this counts every post, including RVS but after thread unlock. It also doesn't combine multiple posts in a row, as some folks (i.e. Robz) do often. Still, for those who like post counts, here it is.
Of course, take into account V/LA and such. If anyone has a recount of who was V/LA for any amount of time, you could post that.
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So, a post count, total posts:
Name: Total/Pre-Chickening/percentage of total posts
Shraeye: 32/27/7.5%
Robz888: 46/26/10.7%
Voltgloss: 37/32/8.6%
Eevee: 49/32/11.4%
yuma: 13/10/3%
Galz: 29/28/6.8%
Insom: 47/46/11%
ashersky: 23/17/5.4%
CF: 51/51/11.9%
Grujah: 42/31/9.8%
Arch: 15/10/3.5%
joth: 13/8/3%
Cuzz: 32/25/7.5%
For what it's worth, here's everyone's contribution. Now, this counts every post, including RVS but after thread unlock. It also doesn't combine multiple posts in a row, as some folks (i.e. Robz) do often. Still, for those who like post counts, here it is.
Of course, take into account V/LA and such. If anyone has a recount of who was V/LA for any amount of time, you could post that.
I'm not sure how you calculated this, since a quick check shows I should have at least 5 more posts than you give me credit for if you're truly counting every post. Even still, post counts reek of IIoA if you don't interpret the data. I had the same issue when Frisk did this a while ago. What are we supposed to take from this? Are you in favor of just lynching those with fewest posts like Robz is?
I forgot Joth is a chicken.. He can't really defending himself or give out town vibes in that condition, so Unvote.
Vote: yuma Similar reasons than joth. I'm fine with any wagon I don't dislike.
Eevee seems to be taking the route of voting for those with lowest contribution here. I'm not in favor of a yuma lynch since he has RL reasons for being quiet (like joth) and has been rather helpful when he has been here (unlike joth) so I have a somewhat townie read on him now despite him being the only one voting for me (why do none of my townreads ever return the favor?)
Eevee still seems scummiest to me, so I think I'll write up a case on him soonish and see what others think.
But yeah, I'd be ok with lynching plenty of people today. Getting slightly scummy vibes from (in no particular order):
Robz (though not as strong as others seem to be; have to reread),
ashersky (though he always seems kinda like this even as town),
Insomniac (due to Grujah wagon nonsense),
Frisk (ditto), and
joth (lurking, though not sure about lynching a chicken).
That's a lot of people. Just to complete the list, I have slight townreads on Volt and yuma, neutral reads on shraeye, Galz, Grujah and Archetype.
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Wug the lynch deadline is tomorrow!?
Everyone abandon the Robz wagon asap or we won't have time to build a new one?
Vote: jotheonah no one is suspecting him, that's always scummy. Grujah was an ok place for my vote too.
Look, I'd like to lynch jo mostly because he contributed exactly NOTHING whole D1. You're reason sucks though.
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@Cuzz
I did the count because Robz requested one. I don't put much stock in post count numbers, since it doesn't take into consideration quality of posts, etc.
If you want a read from me based on lurkiness, I'd say Arch had the least content and no excuses for his absence. Joth as well, although he is a chicken now, so tough to say. Robz and CF have inflated counts from multi-posts. I think the lynch all lurkers thing has probably prompted scum to post more, so I'd expect at least one of the more prolific posters to be mafia.
I've offered my scum read on Robz. Shraeye had seemed scummy based on attitude and especially a different style of posting. On reread during my count (I just did a show all and tallied by pen and paper) Eevee and Grujah seemed townish. Volt as well, until chickening. Null or neutral on most everyone else.
So I'd be okay with lynches of Robz for my previous case, Joth or Arch for lack of content on D1, maybe could see a case on Shraeye for his style/meta change.
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Archetype is pretty lurking generally, though. I'm not sure what Jo or yuma's excuses are.
Actually, I wonder if scum Jo is a hyper lurker, or something. That... is something I could imagine. Okay, I'm maybe okay with a Joth vote.
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Archetype is pretty lurking generally, though. I'm not sure what Jo or yuma's excuses are.
Actually, I wonder if scum Jo is a hyper lurker, or something. That... is something I could imagine. Okay, I'm maybe okay with a Joth vote.
Joth has a new job, although apparently it's only starting next week or something because he has time to mod the bastard mafia game. Yuma has lots of laboratory work / general business? Archetype is indeed always on the silent side, and I have liked his contributions here (although he has been town earlier so it might actually be a bad thing). Joth lynch would be cool, but as a chicken he can't really explain his behavior or make emotional defenses or anything like that, so that's why I'd rather pick someone else.
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Archetype is pretty lurking generally, though. I'm not sure what Jo or yuma's excuses are.
Actually, I wonder if scum Jo is a hyper lurker, or something. That... is something I could imagine. Okay, I'm maybe okay with a Joth vote.
Joth has a new job, although apparently it's only starting next week or something because he has time to mod the bastard mafia game. Yuma has lots of laboratory work / general business? Archetype is indeed always on the silent side, and I have liked his contributions here (although he has been town earlier so it might actually be a bad thing). Joth lynch would be cool, but as a chicken he can't really explain his behavior or make emotional defenses or anything like that, so that's why I'd rather pick someone else.
But Joth did have time to start bastard mafia, as you note. He was quiet even before he was chickened. He's been active in other games. I dunno. This seems odd for him, and it's plausible that it's odd in a scummy way, since town Jo in previous games has been demonstrably active and accusatory.
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Chicken chicken.
Chicken vote: Robz
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I still don't think the case against Robz is very good I do think Jo is deserving of a little pressure at least.
Vote: Jotheonah
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I still don't think the case against Robz is very good I do think Jo is deserving of a little pressure at least.
Vote: Jotheonah
I don't disagree that jo has been acting suspiciously even before the curse, but how exactly does "pressure" work against someone who can hardly talk?
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Chicken vote: Cuzz.
Chicken.
Chicken unvote.
Chicken vote: Insomniac.
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Chicken vote: Cuzz.
Chicken.
Chicken unvote.
Chicken vote: Insomniac.
Some OMGUSing.
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I still don't think the case against Robz is very good I do think Jo is deserving of a little pressure at least.
Vote: Jotheonah
I don't disagree that jo has been acting suspiciously even before the curse, but how exactly does "pressure" work against someone who can hardly talk?
I don't think my vote will go anywhere per say but he should know that I'm expecting a bit more content out of him in general (I said this in my big post where I mentioned my feelings on everyone). And we do have a decent way of communicating Volt is doing it quite a bit and quite well.
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Chicken vote: Cuzz.
Chicken.
Chicken unvote.
Chicken vote: Insomniac.
...Well this definitely makes me feel like my vote is in the right place.
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The problem is that scum Joth has only been seen once in a normal game (M-III), where he was SK. In that particular game, I had no problem spotting his scummy nature D1 because he sat there trying to stir up suspicions. Here, he's just been absent.
I don't know. Joth isn't the quiet type, but I've never seen him as Mafia. OTOH, he's often quite suspicious and an easy mislynch target. For my money... I don't think I would vote him. He's too smart to intentionally play his first "Mafia" game as a lurker when f.DS is at it's peak of railing against lurkers. I feel much more comfortable with my vote on Robz, who is a solid enough player to lead the field in posts WHILE being scum, and spend his time trying to mercilessly pursue a LaL policy without actually taking the time to differentiate scummy lurking and inadvertent town lurking. This particular game has a high skill average. I just don't think you'll see scum being lurky here just for the sake of being lurky.
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I still don't think the case against Robz is very good I do think Jo is deserving of a little pressure at least.
Vote: Jotheonah
I don't disagree that jo has been acting suspiciously even before the curse, but how exactly does "pressure" work against someone who can hardly talk?
I don't think my vote will go anywhere per say but he should know that I'm expecting a bit more content out of him in general (I said this in my big post where I mentioned my feelings on everyone). And we do have a decent way of communicating Volt is doing it quite a bit and quite well.
So you want to vote for jo, but don't want to encourage his lynch? And you're trying to get more content out of him despite it being really tough for him to express any content at the moment?
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The problem is that scum Joth has only been seen once in a normal game (M-III), where he was SK. In that particular game, I had no problem spotting his scummy nature D1 because he sat there trying to stir up suspicions. Here, he's just been absent.
I don't know. Joth isn't the quiet type, but I've never seen him as Mafia. OTOH, he's often quite suspicious and an easy mislynch target. For my money... I don't think I would vote him. He's too smart to intentionally play his first "Mafia" game as a lurker when f.DS is at it's peak of railing against lurkers. I feel much more comfortable with my vote on Robz, who is a solid enough player to lead the field in posts WHILE being scum, and spend his time trying to mercilessly pursue a LaL policy without actually taking the time to differentiate scummy lurking and inadvertent town lurking. This particular game has a high skill average. I just don't think you'll see scum being lurky here just for the sake of being lurky.
Galzria hasn't played scum in the past 12 normal games, so can I forgive him for being misinformed on this.
Active play is actually very, very hard for scum, even for experienced players. Even I had a hard-ish time keeping my post count up in MVIII, and even moreso in MIX, when I was scum. It's not easy. That's why Insomniac's active scum play in MXII was so impressive.
Jotheonah is often suspicious and an easy mislynch target, I agree. He tends to get on a lot of wagons, and have a lot of strong opinions. From now on, I will take this to be town Jonah, and I wish I had realized it in MXII.
But this isn't that Jo. He's much quieter here, and I'm having a hard time understanding why, being that he's active in other places. I know he started a new job, sure. I don't think he's a slamdunk by any means. But I think Galzria is underestimating how consuming the tendency to lurk as scum is.
And I still don't see why any scum would actually be afraid of leaning toward the lurky side, since so seldom do we actually punish lurking. I think he could have bet that once again, there wouldn't be any actual lynching of lurkers, or that someone would come in and say, "No scum would lurk now that we are all anti-lurking!" Because someone always does. Blowback against policy lynches is much, much more popular than policy lynches themselves.
And I am distinguishing scummy lurking from town lurking, Galzria. Archetype, for instance, is huge lurking, but I expect Archetype to lurk no matter what his alignment is. And I already said that.
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Robz, while it was short, ZM-1 begs to differ with you. Active scum is not difficult - at all - for an experienced player, especially one whom people often look to lead the town anyway. If I'm not mistaken, you actually agree with me on this point, per your case on Voltgloss.
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Robz, while it was short, ZM-1 begs to differ with you. Active scum is not difficult - at all - for an experienced player, especially one whom people often look to lead the town anyway. If I'm not mistaken, you actually agree with me on this point, per your case on Voltgloss.
Well, ZM1 is an entirely different animal, and I think you are wrong. Scum lurk, and experienced scum lurk sometimes, too.
I considered Grujah a decently experienced player, with a very good, pro-town record in MIX. He vanished as scum. SO it does happen. Maybe it wouldn't happen to you, I don't know, I think ZM1 is too different, and you haven't been scum in a regular game since the early days.
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Robz, while it was short, ZM-1 begs to differ with you. Active scum is not difficult - at all - for an experienced player, especially one whom people often look to lead the town anyway. If I'm not mistaken, you actually agree with me on this point, per your case on Voltgloss.
I have to say ZM is quite a bit different. And I think a lynch all lurkers policy in them is probably quite strong and much more likely to be pushed through. In ZM the pace is high enough that scumslips are even over looked ocassionally which favours scum. And In M3 (as scum) Voltgloss was quite quiet.
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Robz, while it was short, ZM-1 begs to differ with you. Active scum is not difficult - at all - for an experienced player, especially one whom people often look to lead the town anyway. If I'm not mistaken, you actually agree with me on this point, per your case on Voltgloss.
Well, ZM1 is an entirely different animal, and I think you are wrong. Scum lurk, and experienced scum lurk sometimes, too.
I considered Grujah a decently experienced player, with a very good, pro-town record in MIX. He vanished as scum. SO it does happen. Maybe it wouldn't happen to you, I don't know, I think ZM1 is too different, and you haven't been scum in a regular game since the early days.
I'm not saying they haven't - obviously that's not been true. Hence why LaL is at it's peak here. What I'm saying is that given where our community is right now in their feelings towards lurking, an experienced player rolling scum seems a lot less likely to go "I know, I'll lurk this game!". Yes, Grujah lurked hardcore. He got away with it in one game, but didn't in another. Given the shift in the community, I very much doubt he would actively pursue that strategy again at this time. And I think Joth is smart enough to not do so as well. He's an easy target because no matter what he does he looks scummy (sorry Jo, but is true!).
To further that point, my scum vibe from you comes from the fact that on the one hand you sit there arguing we should lynch Joth for lurking, because "that's how scum play" and we should "lynch all lurkers without exception",but then you turn around and argue case on Volt that says "he's suspicious BECAUSE he's been active, and that's what scum Volt would do". I actually AGREE with your thought about Volt, and you usually read him well. So it really throws me when you come back with a weak case and vote on Joth, using a case that's on the complete opposite end of the spectrum as your case on Volt. It's like you're trying to figure our which argument is going to stick best.
I don't think Joth is scum. I don't think he would choose to lurk as scum here. I think he's a bad lynch.
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Robz, while it was short, ZM-1 begs to differ with you. Active scum is not difficult - at all - for an experienced player, especially one whom people often look to lead the town anyway. If I'm not mistaken, you actually agree with me on this point, per your case on Voltgloss.
I have to say ZM is quite a bit different. And I think a lynch all lurkers policy in them is probably quite strong and much more likely to be pushed through. In ZM the pace is high enough that scumslips are even over looked ocassionally which favours scum. And In M3 (as scum) Voltgloss was quite quiet.
We've ALL come a long way since M-II/M-III. Ahh, good 'ol rookie days. I look at Volt now, and I'm constantly shocked that I was ever able to hoodwink him into voting you way back when.
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Robz, while it was short, ZM-1 begs to differ with you. Active scum is not difficult - at all - for an experienced player, especially one whom people often look to lead the town anyway. If I'm not mistaken, you actually agree with me on this point, per your case on Voltgloss.
I have to say ZM is quite a bit different. And I think a lynch all lurkers policy in them is probably quite strong and much more likely to be pushed through. In ZM the pace is high enough that scumslips are even over looked ocassionally which favours scum. And In M3 (as scum) Voltgloss was quite quiet.
We've ALL come a long way since M-II/M-III. Ahh, good 'ol rookie days. I look at Volt now, and I'm constantly shocked that I was ever able to hoodwink him into voting you way back when.
I agree. I'm just not sure that jo wouldn't lurk it out as scum. Certainly with it at its peak even I would consider lurking because as scum I was active (I'm also normally active as town). So the meta for Insomniac scum is to be quite involved its been true in every game I've been scum (MIX, RMM1, MXII, BMV) so to switch things up a bit I would consider lurking even with it at its height especially because I don't think we actually will push a policy lynch of lurkers through.
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Robz, while it was short, ZM-1 begs to differ with you. Active scum is not difficult - at all - for an experienced player, especially one whom people often look to lead the town anyway. If I'm not mistaken, you actually agree with me on this point, per your case on Voltgloss.
Well, ZM1 is an entirely different animal, and I think you are wrong. Scum lurk, and experienced scum lurk sometimes, too.
I considered Grujah a decently experienced player, with a very good, pro-town record in MIX. He vanished as scum. SO it does happen. Maybe it wouldn't happen to you, I don't know, I think ZM1 is too different, and you haven't been scum in a regular game since the early days.
I'm not saying they haven't - obviously that's not been true. Hence why LaL is at it's peak here. What I'm saying is that given where our community is right now in their feelings towards lurking, an experienced player rolling scum seems a lot less likely to go "I know, I'll lurk this game!". Yes, Grujah lurked hardcore. He got away with it in one game, but didn't in another. Given the shift in the community, I very much doubt he would actively pursue that strategy again at this time. And I think Joth is smart enough to not do so as well. He's an easy target because no matter what he does he looks scummy (sorry Jo, but is true!).
To further that point, my scum vibe from you comes from the fact that on the one hand you sit there arguing we should lynch Joth for lurking, because "that's how scum play" and we should "lynch all lurkers without exception",but then you turn around and argue case on Volt that says "he's suspicious BECAUSE he's been active, and that's what scum Volt would do". I actually AGREE with your thought about Volt, and you usually read him well. So it really throws me when you come back with a weak case and vote on Joth, using a case that's on the complete opposite end of the spectrum as your case on Volt. It's like you're trying to figure our which argument is going to stick best.
I don't think Joth is scum. I don't think he would choose to lurk as scum here. I think he's a bad lynch.
My issue with Volt is NOT that he has been too active, I don't think. It's that his case against me is a nothing case, and I'm a little suspicious of him getting chickened.
I mean, I don't have a full case against him, which is why I am not voting him. The person I am voting for remains ashersky, who I think is the leading candidate for scummy behavior, and one of the lead lurkers.
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Vote Count 1.8:
Insomniac (2): Grujah, jotheonah
Eevee (1): Cuzz
ashersky (1): Robz888
Robz888 (4): Galzria, Captain_Frisk, ashersky, Voltgloss
Cuzz (1): yuma
Voltgloss (1): Archetype
yuma (1): Eevee
jotheonah (1): Insomniac
Not voting (1): shraeye
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Currently Cursed: Voltgloss, jotheonah
Curse deadline: Tuesday Oct 23, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
Lynch deadline: Tuesday Oct 23, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
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Under 24 hours and counting, and some people are really lurking. Where is Archetype? Where is yuma? Where is Frisk? Has Frisk justified his vote on me? The other 3 have (albeit badly, in my opinion).
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Under 24 hours and counting, and some people are really lurking. Where is Archetype? Where is yuma? Where is Frisk? Has Frisk justified his vote on me? The other 3 have (albeit badly, in my opinion).
I don't get how you don't see the case against you.
You've been pretty buddy with me, and you just said you agreed with all my reads, Galzria says what I said about him is fabricated though I don't feel it is, and so does Volt so they both suspect you as that, and then as soon as Volt became a chicken you thought he was obvscum which I highly disagree with.
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Under 24 hours and counting, and some people are really lurking. Where is Archetype? Where is yuma? Where is Frisk? Has Frisk justified his vote on me? The other 3 have (albeit badly, in my opinion).
I don't get how you don't see the case against you.
You've been pretty buddy with me, and you just said you agreed with all my reads, Galzria says what I said about him is fabricated though I don't feel it is, and so does Volt so they both suspect you as that, and then as soon as Volt became a chicken you thought he was obvscum which I highly disagree with.
I know this, I just don't think it amounts to much of a case. I don't know if I have been "pretty buddy" with you, though I did agree with your reads. Or I thought I did. I did a closer reading of Galzria after that, and I guess you and I did ultimately disagree. I NEVER said Volt was obvscum, I have not voted for Volt, and I don't intend to vote for Volt. I merely said him becoming a chicken, well it could be a plot. All in all he is not drastically different from town Volt at all (although scum Volt really isn't all that different).
If these are the reasons people are voting for me, then yes I will continue to say the case is vague and baseless.
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I mean, I don't have a full case against him, which is why I am not voting him. The person I am voting for remains ashersky, who I think is the leading candidate for scummy behavior, and one of the lead lurkers.
Yet another night with a lot of good discussion. I'll work on replying to those, especially the joth discussion, soon. First, to respond yet again to Robz's disingenous argument:
I may have a lowish post count, but I am posting content (as well as info when requested). I did a run down of my posting times, and they just don't line up with most other players--my day starts here in the early evening the day and runs overnight forum time, so I get interaction at the beginning of my day. I'd argue I'm not lurking--I'm following, responding, contributing.
I wanted to point out two more nuggets for the Robz case--lost in all of this was Robz reply #368, which raised some concern at the time (this was Robz "completely agreeing" with everything Insom said), which I think is indicative of some of Robz odd/scummy play this game. It's also a good example of many of Robz's fluff posts that inflate his "non-lurker" post count.
I would also point out Robz #381, in which he states his firm belief that scum want to get on town wagons early, for strategic sake. And then I'd note he is second on my wagon after Insom voted me at 4:21 a.m. (my time) for "lurkiness" even when I wasn't even the low post count at the time.
So, in short, I'm good with my Robz vote still.
PPE: Insom separately mentions what I said above.
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I would also point out Robz #381, in which he states his firm belief that scum want to get on town wagons early, for strategic sake. And then I'd note he is second on my wagon after Insom voted me at 4:21 a.m. (my time) for "lurkiness" even when I wasn't even the low post count at the time.
So you think I would explain something that should be viewed as scummy, and then do that very thing?
My initial vote against you was not one I thought would remain for long, but since then you became quite scummy, in my view. I do believe you are posting more content, but that doesn't exactly make me trust you. I haven't seen scum ashersky yet. It could very well be the scum ashersky writes more engaging posts.
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I would also point out Robz #381, in which he states his firm belief that scum want to get on town wagons early, for strategic sake. And then I'd note he is second on my wagon after Insom voted me at 4:21 a.m. (my time) for "lurkiness" even when I wasn't even the low post count at the time.
So you think I would explain something that should be viewed as scummy, and then do that very thing?
My initial vote against you was not one I thought would remain for long, but since then you became quite scummy, in my view. I do believe you are posting more content, but that doesn't exactly make me trust you. I haven't seen scum ashersky yet. It could very well be the scum ashersky writes more engaging posts.
Yes, actually. It fits the Robz "so smart he would never do that" meta to a T.
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I wanted to point out two more nuggets for the Robz case--lost in all of this was Robz reply #368, which raised some concern at the time (this was Robz "completely agreeing" with everything Insom said), which I think is indicative of some of Robz odd/scummy play this game. It's also a good example of many of Robz's fluff posts that inflate his "non-lurker" post count.
Is it scummy though? I mean, would I do that as scum, is the answer you have to ask yourself.
I make no apologies for doing series of shirt posts instead of lengthy single posts. I think they are easier to read and more memorable. My eyes tend to skim the monologues.
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On the Joth issue:
Robz raises the possibility of Joth as a scummy hyper-lurker, and when Eevee points out he just got a new job, recalls that he did have time to mod a new mafia game. Insom joins the speculation with a pressure vote, and got immediately voted by Joth. Galz thinks Joth is just generally an easy mislynch, and leans town on him. Robz maintains some suspicion.
I think there's a case that could be made on Joth, especially since he was quiet even before he got chickened. Joth is a mafia vet, he's modded, and he's usually talkative as town. So quiet, lurkish Joth is a different one than I've seen before. Robz had posited that Volt could have chickened himself as a ploy; could the same logic be applied to Joth, especially to try to take some attention away from his pre-chicken lurking?
As stated often, I think Robz is the best lynch. The Joth discussions are good though.
Both Robz and Eevee gave Arch a pass as "the silent type." I don't know if that's the best way to go about it. I'd like to hear more from him in general.
Where's yuma and Grujah?
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On the Joth issue:
Robz raises the possibility of Joth as a scummy hyper-lurker, and when Eevee points out he just got a new job, recalls that he did have time to mod a new mafia game. Insom joins the speculation with a pressure vote, and got immediately voted by Joth. Galz thinks Joth is just generally an easy mislynch, and leans town on him. Robz maintains some suspicion.
I think there's a case that could be made on Joth, especially since he was quiet even before he got chickened. Joth is a mafia vet, he's modded, and he's usually talkative as town. So quiet, lurkish Joth is a different one than I've seen before. Robz had posited that Volt could have chickened himself as a ploy; could the same logic be applied to Joth, especially to try to take some attention away from his pre-chicken lurking?
As stated often, I think Robz is the best lynch. The Joth discussions are good though.
Both Robz and Eevee gave Arch a pass as "the silent type." I don't know if that's the best way to go about it. I'd like to hear more from him in general.
Where's yuma and Grujah?
The problem is that when Jo decided to host the bastard mafia it was to enjoy his last week of unemployment implying that he starts his job next week as opposed to this week.
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I wanted to point out two more nuggets for the Robz case--lost in all of this was Robz reply #368, which raised some concern at the time (this was Robz "completely agreeing" with everything Insom said), which I think is indicative of some of Robz odd/scummy play this game. It's also a good example of many of Robz's fluff posts that inflate his "non-lurker" post count.
Is it scummy though? I mean, would I do that as scum, is the answer you have to ask yourself.
I make no apologies for doing series of shirt posts instead of lengthy single posts. I think they are easier to read and more memorable. My eyes tend to skim the monologues.
I'd agree with that, in general, on the short posts vs. long. I end up having to write more now that I come in after a number of posts and discussions and needing to catch up. Before moving to Australia this month, I was living in the forum time zone (and was on vacation for a month) so I could post "real time" and keep the conversation style back and forth that seems to work best for the game.
Although here we are, going back and forth.
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The problem is that when Jo decided to host the bastard mafia it was to enjoy his last week of unemployment implying that he starts his job next week as opposed to this week.
Good point.
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On the Joth issue:
Robz raises the possibility of Joth as a scummy hyper-lurker, and when Eevee points out he just got a new job, recalls that he did have time to mod a new mafia game. Insom joins the speculation with a pressure vote, and got immediately voted by Joth. Galz thinks Joth is just generally an easy mislynch, and leans town on him. Robz maintains some suspicion.
I think there's a case that could be made on Joth, especially since he was quiet even before he got chickened. Joth is a mafia vet, he's modded, and he's usually talkative as town. So quiet, lurkish Joth is a different one than I've seen before. Robz had posited that Volt could have chickened himself as a ploy; could the same logic be applied to Joth, especially to try to take some attention away from his pre-chicken lurking?
As stated often, I think Robz is the best lynch. The Joth discussions are good though.
Both Robz and Eevee gave Arch a pass as "the silent type." I don't know if that's the best way to go about it. I'd like to hear more from him in general.
Where's yuma and Grujah?
I also would like to hear more from the people not foolishly calling for my death.
I am the best lynch because: I agreed with Insomniac, I did a follow-up vote on ashersky for lurking, and because I made something of Volt getting chickened. What a case!
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On the Joth issue:
Robz raises the possibility of Joth as a scummy hyper-lurker, and when Eevee points out he just got a new job, recalls that he did have time to mod a new mafia game. Insom joins the speculation with a pressure vote, and got immediately voted by Joth. Galz thinks Joth is just generally an easy mislynch, and leans town on him. Robz maintains some suspicion.
I think there's a case that could be made on Joth, especially since he was quiet even before he got chickened. Joth is a mafia vet, he's modded, and he's usually talkative as town. So quiet, lurkish Joth is a different one than I've seen before. Robz had posited that Volt could have chickened himself as a ploy; could the same logic be applied to Joth, especially to try to take some attention away from his pre-chicken lurking?
As stated often, I think Robz is the best lynch. The Joth discussions are good though.
Both Robz and Eevee gave Arch a pass as "the silent type." I don't know if that's the best way to go about it. I'd like to hear more from him in general.
Where's yuma and Grujah?
I also would like to hear more from the people not foolishly calling for my death.
I am the best lynch because: I agreed with Insomniac, I did a follow-up vote on ashersky for lurking, and because I made something of Volt getting chickened. What a case!
Am I in this crew? I'm not calling for your death I'm advocating against it but I do see the case on you.
The reason I said you've been pretty buddy isn't just the completely agreeing with my reads it was when I said vote ash you in the next post did the same without reasoning so it seemed like you were sheeping me.
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You are not in that crew.
I didn't even remember that you were the one who voted ashersky initially. Honestly, that ashersky vote was not the most serious thing ever when I made it. It soon became serious.
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Both Robz and Eevee gave Arch a pass as "the silent type." I don't know if that's the best way to go about it. I'd like to hear more from him in general.
I am the silent type.
There's not much to say except I still think that Voltgloss is acting scummy, though I don't think people agree with me, or just aren't vocal about it.
The joth case is an interesting one. Since he's modding his own game, he's still gotta be able to post here more often, even in 'Chicken Form'.
<24 hours left! It seems like no more wagons could form in that time, so I hope everyone on the Robz wagon rethinks their vote.
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Get in here and talk people no lynch is TERRIBLE.
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Get in here and talk people no lynch is TERRIBLE.
Agreed.
Grujah has been nowhere to be found after the self-admitted conscious effort of trying to be more active in the early stages of day 1. Grujah wagon vol 2?
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Get in here and talk people no lynch is TERRIBLE.
Agreed.
Grujah has been nowhere to be found after the self-admitted conscious effort of trying to be more active in the early stages of day 1. Grujah wagon vol 2?
I'd be ok with a Grujah lynch.
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Both Robz and Eevee gave Arch a pass as "the silent type." I don't know if that's the best way to go about it. I'd like to hear more from him in general.
I am the silent type.
There's not much to say except I still think that Voltgloss is acting scummy, though I don't think people agree with me, or just aren't vocal about it.
The joth case is an interesting one. Since he's modding his own game, he's still gotta be able to post here more often, even in 'Chicken Form'.
<24 hours left! It seems like no more wagons could form in that time, so I hope everyone on the Robz wagon rethinks their vote.
So Robz gives you a pass on lurking while he goes after everybody else, because you're the "silent type", and in return, you "hope everyone on the Robz wagon rethinks their vote"?
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Get in here and talk people no lynch is TERRIBLE.
Also agree. Other than Robz, a Joth wagon could get traction, or a new Grujah wagon.
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Why do you want me to die, Galzria? Do you think I am scum that much?
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Get in here and talk people no lynch is TERRIBLE.
Also agree. Other than Robz, a Joth wagon could get traction, or a new Grujah wagon.
I am interested in those wagons.
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Currently happiest with my vote on jo, would be ok with my vote on grujah too though if that is the wagon people prefer.
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Chicken vote: jotheonah
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We should keep in mind that we made need time for claims, right? I mean, this all has to go down in the next few hours or we are going to No Lynch.
I guess I am part of the problem right now, since there is zero desire for an ashersky vote. I will Vote: Jotheonah. I WILL switch to Grujah if there is momentum there.
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Chicken vote: jotheonah
What? What what?? Not this again...
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Both Robz and Eevee gave Arch a pass as "the silent type." I don't know if that's the best way to go about it. I'd like to hear more from him in general.
I am the silent type.
There's not much to say except I still think that Voltgloss is acting scummy, though I don't think people agree with me, or just aren't vocal about it.
The joth case is an interesting one. Since he's modding his own game, he's still gotta be able to post here more often, even in 'Chicken Form'.
<24 hours left! It seems like no more wagons could form in that time, so I hope everyone on the Robz wagon rethinks their vote.
So Robz gives you a pass on lurking while he goes after everybody else, because you're the "silent type", and in return, you "hope everyone on the Robz wagon rethinks their vote"?
By 'rethinking their vote' I implied that they were positive that Robz is Mafia (or in scum's case, strong town). I didn't say that because Robz gave me a free pass, I opposed the Robz lynch before then.
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I'd be more comfortable with a Grujah lynch, but I'll Vote: Jotheonah
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Vote: Grujah
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Both Robz and Eevee gave Arch a pass as "the silent type." I don't know if that's the best way to go about it. I'd like to hear more from him in general.
I am the silent type.
There's not much to say except I still think that Voltgloss is acting scummy, though I don't think people agree with me, or just aren't vocal about it.
The joth case is an interesting one. Since he's modding his own game, he's still gotta be able to post here more often, even in 'Chicken Form'.
<24 hours left! It seems like no more wagons could form in that time, so I hope everyone on the Robz wagon rethinks their vote.
So Robz gives you a pass on lurking while he goes after everybody else, because you're the "silent type", and in return, you "hope everyone on the Robz wagon rethinks their vote"?
Yeah this looks suspicious. But man this two-way defense is almost so obviously scummy that I don't even know if it's the kind of thing actual scum would do.
One thing I'd like to put out there is this quote, which I don't think anyone else has commented on:
Grujah Wagon: Voltgloss, Robz888, Eevee, Captain_Frisk
Robz Wagon: Galzria, Captain_Frisk, Voltgloss, ashersky, jotheonah
I'm going to do a: Fos: C_F
And a Vote: Voltgloss Would scum chickenize themselves to avoid suspicion? As smart as Voltgloss is, I think yes.
The only problem with this thoery is, well, I don't really think who voted for Grujah matters much. My vote for him was serious, and I'm sure the others were too... but it was never actually going to lead to lynch. It was too quick. So I'm not sure that mafia had to make the decision to drive, deflect, avoid, or join the wagon. It just wasn't going to matter.
Separately, I do find it suspicious that so many of the experts are voting for me when there is no reason to do so.
I noticed this because I've been thinking for most of the day that the Grujah wagon might be a good place to scumhunt. And I mentioned in my analysis a few people who look suspicious after that event, Eevee in particular but Robz to some extent. And here he's basically trying to clear the whole wagon from suspicion.
I still personally find Eevee more suspicious, due to the Grujah thing and change in demeanor, but no one else has really expressed agreement. So I would be willing to go along with a Robz lynch.
Though Grujah has been very quiet as of late as someone mentioned, and I would hate to let him get away with that if he turns out to be scum again. His behavior is starting to seem very MXIIish...
Man, D1 is hard when there's no outrageous anti-town behavior to pounce on.
PPE: 7
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Cuzz, how is "the Grujah thing" more of a scum move than a townie mistake from me? I think it has blown out of proportion a bit anyways, I don't think it was THAT big of a deal.
Cuzz is actually looking scummy to me too, but it might only be because I think he unfairly suspects me.
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Vote Count 1.9:
Insomniac (1): Grujah
Eevee (1): Cuzz
Robz888 (4): Galzria, Captain_Frisk, ashersky, Voltgloss
Cuzz (1): yuma
jotheonah (4): Insomniac, Robz888, jotheonah, Archetype
Grujah (1): Eevee
Not voting (1): shraeye
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Currently Cursed: Voltgloss, jotheonah
Curse deadline: Tuesday Oct 23, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
Lynch deadline: Tuesday Oct 23, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
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Jorbles, any reason the Curse and Lynch deadline are separate?
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Chicken vote: jotheonah
Joth is at 4 votes, his self-vote sounds like frustration? Giving up? I don't know.
I'm tempted to vote for Eevee for his Grujah vote, trying to derail the joth wagon without a reason (given in that post). But then I'd be doing the same thing.
I could vote Joth if needed, and he'd be at L-2. I think enough of us are around to unvote if we think something fishy is going on.
Joth, anything more to say? Care to unvote yourself?
PPE: Cuzz
I still personally find Eevee more suspicious, due to the Grujah thing and change in demeanor, but no one else has really expressed agreement. So I would be willing to go along with a Robz lynch.
I had mentioned Eevee suspicion before, based on a change of demeanor, but don't think he's a good lynch candidate for today. He's gotten townier as the day has progressed, back towards his norm.
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Jorbles, any reason the Curse and Lynch deadline are separate?
Because they are not always going to be happening at the same time, and I want to keep the formatting the same for all Vote Counts.
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My "weird behavior" was just having a bad day or two day IRL I think. I apologize for that. Unless you think my behavior is still weird ofc.
I said it earlier: I don't think a chicken is a good lynch target because chickens can't convey emotion (or much anything) in their posts, so reading their reactions to the lynch treat is harder. I voted Grujah because he seemed the alternative wagon I'd like more than the joth wagon.
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Jorbles, any reason the Curse and Lynch deadline are separate?
Because they are not always going to be happening at the same time, and I want to keep the formatting the same for all Vote Counts.
Makes much more sense, I thought they both ended at the same time.
Chicken vote: jotheonah
Joth is at 4 votes, his self-vote sounds like frustration? Giving up? I don't know.
Or to trick us into not voting for him.
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Cuzz, how is "the Grujah thing" more of a scum move than a townie mistake from me? I think it has blown out of proportion a bit anyways, I don't think it was THAT big of a deal.
Cuzz is actually looking scummy to me too, but it might only be because I think he unfairly suspects me.
Because I have no clue of your alignment, Eevee, (though I do think you're more likely than anyone else to be scum) so you telling me that it's a "townie mistake" means nothing. Of course scum would claim a "townie mistake" when called out for scummy behavior. I found it scummy because you tried to hop right in the middle of a quickly growing wagon, while trying to steer attention away from your vote by saying it was for "pressure." I also just think that you don't seem like normal super friendly, townie Eevee this game. And I really don't see how genuine scumhunting on my part can be called "unfair."
After MXII when I was the only one to suspect Insomniac early, I'm trying this thing where I don't let my scumreads sputter out just because no one else agrees with me.
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Jorbles, any reason the Curse and Lynch deadline are separate?
Because they are not always going to be happening at the same time, and I want to keep the formatting the same for all Vote Counts.
Makes much more sense, I thought they both ended at the same time.
Chicken vote: jotheonah
Joth is at 4 votes, his self-vote sounds like frustration? Giving up? I don't know.
Or to trick us into not voting for him.
I really don't understand self-votes. I can't fathom why a townie would do this, but every time I've seen it happen, it actually has turned out to be a townie.
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I think I've been my friendly self apart from those two days where I behaving the same way in another game we shan't talk about now if anyone is following.
You still haven't explained to me the benefit of intentionally "making the mistake" as scum? Do you propose I was hoping the Grujah wagon takes off and covering for myself for the future when Grujah flips town? If so, why don't you have a town read on Grujah? Do you propose Grujah is my scumbuddy and I was trying to derail the lynch with the comment? If so, why did I vote for him?
For one, I don't think the comment was such a huge deal you are making it to be. And two, I don't think it tells anything about my alignment either way, because scum would get no benefit of doing it intentionally.
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Well, I am happy to be voting for someone who is voting for himself.
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I am here and about to reread everything that I have missed since yesterday morning. Does anyone have anything specific for me to answer or look at as I do so?
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I am here and about to reread everything that I have missed since yesterday morning. Does anyone have anything specific for me to answer or look at as I do so?
We need a lynch candidate asap. Try to look for people you'd be comfortable lynching, that's pretty much all that matters now.
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Well, I am happy to be voting for someone who is voting for himself.
I actually think this is a fair statement. It's anti-town behavior, at the very least, as he's not helping town at all by self-voting if he's town. If it's scum wifom, well, lynching scum is our goal so worth the risk.
vote: joth
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Busy these days. But:
1. shraeye - I don't know, not much, slight scum vibe. Wouldn't object lynching, but not too hot about it.
2. Robz888 - Acting strangely, I hafta admit. Would lynch.
3. Voltgloss - Generally normal Volt, tries hard even as chicken, slight town read.
4. Eevee - Too cocky lately - would lynch.
5. yuma - invisible. Would lynch cuz he is known for this.
6. Galzria - Nothing too spectacular, generally town read. Wouldn't lynch.
7. Insomniac - Top lynch, overall scummy, stated reasons before, didn't improve.
8. ashersky - meh, his been making weird looking cases all around, on a scummy side, below Robz though, I think. Would lynch.
Also, recent reaction to jo's jo vote looks fake.
9. Captain_Frisk - Lurky, was a bit scummy on start, sligh scum read, Wouldn't object lynching, but not too hot about it.
10. Grujah - Hi.
11. Archetype - Neutral. Don't care.
12. jotheonah - lurk heavy. Would lynch. This self vote doesn't help.
13. Cuzz - Towny read, trust him, plays naturally. Wouldn't lynch.
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Newest ash's comment seems as fake as last one.
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Newest ash's comment seems as fake as last one.
Fake like I don't believe what I'm saying?
I've been clear on robz the entire time. I'll gladly return to Robz if that's the route we go as town. But there is some urgency to this now, as I strongly think no-lynch is a terrible idea.
I mentioned my thoughts on Jo previously, including noting his lurking. Do you disagree that self-voting as town is anti-town?
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Jo voted himself MIV, he was VT. I think I'd rather lynch Robz (or even ash), and this jo's thing looks like town jo.. but I just can't let it go. He should know better.
Why the frak would he do that now? Jeeeeez.
Vote: jotheonah
PPE: Fake as in "you're scum and trying to sound town the best you can".
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Vote Count 1.10:
Eevee (1): Cuzz
Robz888 (3): Galzria, Captain_Frisk, Voltgloss
Cuzz (1): yuma
jotheonah (6): Insomniac, Robz888, jotheonah, Archetype, ashersky, Grujah
Grujah (1): Eevee
Not voting (1): shraeye
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Currently Cursed: Voltgloss, jotheonah
Curse deadline: Tuesday Oct 23, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
Lynch deadline: Tuesday Oct 23, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
edit: Had Grujah voting twice. Fixed now.
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Ok... recap mostly for my sake, but hey, look at it if you want...
- Volt thinks town targeted him whereas jot thinks it was the random curse.
- The ashersky/Robz conversation about hedging was interesting... I haven't really found ash scummy up to this point, but did find that interaction to be on the scummier side
- In almost every post Robz declares that there is no case on him and asks for them, even when people provide cases. Just because you disagree with a case doesn't mean it doesn't exist. If you are town, obviously you disagree with it, if you are scum obviously you have to say you disagree with it. I would rather see a response to the allegations than a denial of their credibility.
- I do think Voltgloss is capable of having scum put the chicken on him, but that is no reason to vote this early and in light of volt's behavior otherwise. It may be something to consider during later days thou.
- eevee's first vote on jot was a bit weird... "everyone quick don't vote for Robz! Everyone quick vote for jot... because he has received no pressure thus far?" Hmmm.... but then I see he changes it to me
- in the Galz/Robz exchange regarding jot I think I side with Galz
- Ug... really don't like jot's vote on himself... simply because I don't want to vote for him, but I do not want to ever create a precedence for scum to be able to self vote to get rid of pressure in the future... But in this game, I don't think it is a good enough reason to vote. I think jot is frusrated and is trying to communicate that frustration via a self chicken vote.
- surprised no one has put together Volt's full case on Robz together... Here I'll do it with post numbers and maybe quote all of it later for everyone... 421; 190; 289; 290; 296; 310; 359; 373; 388; 390; 467;
could am/voting for: Cuzz (still have a scum read, but nobody wanted to join me here? why not?) Grujah, Eevee, Archetype
Middle Ground: ashersky, shraeye, Robz, Frisk, Insomniac
Not ok with: jotheonah, voltgloss, Galzria
I'll look a bit closer at the other 4 and get a vote down soonish
PPE (so many!)
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I guess we need Joth to claim then?
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I guess we need Joth to claim then?
I would also like to chickenhear from voltgloss regarding jot... I know that earlier he had jot pretty high on his supicion list--up there with robz and grujah--but I wonder if anything has changed since then.
And I know that I shouldn't really be complaining about lack of posting, but the last time Frisk posted it was October 19th 8 pm forum time... that is a long time ago. Is he V/LA and I didn't realize it. Has it been long enough for a prod?
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I guess we need Joth to claim then?
I would also like to chickenhear from voltgloss regarding jot... I know that earlier he had jot pretty high on his supicion list--up there with robz and grujah--but I wonder if anything has changed since then.
And I know that I shouldn't really be complaining about lack of posting, but the last time Frisk posted it was October 19th 8 pm forum time... that is a long time ago. Is he V/LA and I didn't realize it. Has it been long enough for a prod?
Strike that... Frisk did say in the VLA thread that he would be busy today and he typically isn't active overweekends.... and would be posting later tonight
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Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
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Again, could someone who speaks chicken translate? I forgot to copypaste the rules and don't remember what page they were on.
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Chicken Vote: Eevee
Chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken Unvote
Chicken Vote: Robz888
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Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken.
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I think a general note to be cautious of claiming in this game, even at L-1 is really good, and even maybe a tacit endorsement of town PRs lying in certain cases. Any more of a plan than that and we help scum too much.
Of course, being ok with town lying makes me super nervous.
I am not sure, if I get Chickenified, you should expect a great deal of contribution from me. If I'm a chicken at L-1, I just won't claim. I'll use my Chicken vote in a pro-town way. Other than that, I don't think it will be fun OR useful for me to try to continue being a productive town member while under those constraints.
post 419 that volt references
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Thanks Volt, here is the post for others who are interest. Bolding is mine.
I think a general note to be cautious of claiming in this game, even at L-1 is really good, and even maybe a tacit endorsement of town PRs lying in certain cases. Any more of a plan than that and we help scum too much.
Of course, being ok with town lying makes me super nervous.
I am not sure, if I get Chickenified, you should expect a great deal of contribution from me. If I'm a chicken at L-1, I just won't claim. I'll use my Chicken vote in a pro-town way. Other than that, I don't think it will be fun OR useful for me to try to continue being a productive town member while under those constraints.
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Chicken.
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eevee... funny how we both quoted it and bolded different parts from it
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Hey jerks - quit prodding. Post coming later after work is done and the boy is asleep.
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Chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken Vote: yuma
Chicken Vote: Galzria
Chicken Vote: Captain_Frisk
Chicken Vote: Archetype
Chicken Vote: ashersky
Chicken Vote: Insomniac
Chicken Vote: Cuzz
Chicken Vote: shraeye
Chicken Vote: Grujah
Chicken Vote: No Lynch
Chicken Vote: Eevee
Chicken Vote: Robz888
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Chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken Vote: No Lynch
really big town vibe from volt here... he could have very easily slipped in chicken vote on jot... resulting in a lynch and claimed it was an accident tomorrow....
Good call volt and good remembering!
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Somehow Volt is an intimidating guy to disagree with, but him being wrong about me makes me feel better about disagreeing with him about Robz.
What yuma says makes sense, but could also be read as a scumslip.. only scum could KNOW joth is town, right?
I don't like the way Joth is playing at all. Can't even ask for his reasons because he is a chicken, annoying.
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Chicken unvote.
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Look, I less the world in being part of the lynch - and I'm certainly not infallible - but I just don't think Joth is the right way to go today. I'm willing to actively stand here and say it's a bad lynch. If I'm wrong down the line and he's lynched and flips scum, then you'll lynch me too (most likely). In that case it'd be a 1-1 town-scum trade, andI'm ok with that.
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I lead* the world
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Did Jo refuse to claim? I don't speak chicken.
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Chicken vote: Robz
Chicken chicken chicken chicken
Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken
Chicken unvote
chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken
chicken
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Did Jo refuse to claim? I don't speak chicken.
Joth refused to claim much earlier. In the same post he said he'd use his chicken vote in a pro town manner, which I find absolutely hilarious given how we almost got lynched with his vote on himself there.
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Did Jo refuse to claim? I don't speak chicken.
Joth refused to claim much earlier. In the same post he said he'd use his chicken vote in a pro town manner, which I find absolutely hilarious given how we almost got lynched with his vote on himself there.
So that means...if we lynch joth, it's pro town :P
So joth = Mafia
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Chicken vote: Robz
Chicken chicken chicken chicken
Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken
Chicken unvote
I don't understand this. Does this mean you are willing to lynch Ins?
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Did Jo refuse to claim? I don't speak chicken.
Why not learn?
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Did Jo refuse to claim? I don't speak chicken.
Why not learn?
Or why not read the post both me and yuma quoted? Yeah.
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Posts that I find suspicious from Cuzz:
Already referenced:
@Volt, I'd probably be just as happy with my vote on Archetype. For some reason he's seemed a bit more visible to me than ashersky, but I just rechecked Insomniac's count and he really only has one more post than ashersky.
followed by his change of mind
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Anyway, unvote. Ashersky is here and participating, and I didn't consider the opposite-hemisphere issue. If we're gonna have someone at L-2 for lurking it probably shouldn't be him right now.
Vote: jotheonah
he votes for jot... for lurking? why not have ashersky at L-2? Just because he is participating doesnt' mean anything, what is the context of his posts?
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Eevee shows up in somewhat scummy 4th place, and makes the awful "enough pressure votes" comment. Eevee has defended this as simply bad town play, but still something has seemed off to me about him this game. {snip} With the exception of Volt, I could honestly see any one of them as scum, though I think Insomniac and Eevee look worst here, followed by Robz. Based on this, and the change in attitude as well, I'll Vote: Eevee.
My vote on joth is downgraded to a FoS but I have not taken my eye off lurkers, and I do want to hear more from him (though I know he has RL reasons).
changes his vote to Eevee for the Grujah wagon
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But yeah, I'd be ok with lynching plenty of people today. Getting slightly scummy vibes from (in no particular order):
Robz (though not as strong as others seem to be; have to reread),
ashersky (though he always seems kinda like this even as town),
Insomniac (due to Grujah wagon nonsense),
Frisk (ditto), and
joth (lurking, though not sure about lynching a chicken).
Maintains that he is willing to lynch joth and continues to find him scummy
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But he never actually gets around to voting for him... I don't know about this... Does it seem scummy to not vote for someone who you had a previous scum read on him once he gets a wagon on him or does it seem town to reanalyze someone you had a scum read on once he has a wagon on him...
I don't disagree that jo has been acting suspiciously even before the curse, but how exactly does "pressure" work against someone who can hardly talk?
So you want to vote for jo, but don't want to encourage his lynch? And you're trying to get more content out of him despite it being really tough for him to express any content at the moment?
I really don't understand self-votes. I can't fathom why a townie would do this, but every time I've seen it happen, it actually has turned out to be a townie.
I won't change my vote on Cuzz... yet at least, I need to think through his reaction to jot... and go back and look at eevee, archetype and grujah
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Vote Count 1.11:
Eevee (1): Cuzz
Robz888 (3): Galzria, Captain_Frisk, Voltgloss
Cuzz (1): yuma
jotheonah (5): Insomniac, Robz888, Archetype, ashersky, Grujah
Grujah (1): Eevee
Not voting (1): shraeye, jotheonah
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Currently Cursed: Voltgloss, jotheonah
Curse deadline: Tuesday Oct 23, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
Lynch deadline: Tuesday Oct 23, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
So I'm going V/LA for the evening. In the event that someone gets lynched you may read the following spoiler:
Enjoy Kristen Stewart and Robert Pattinson's riveting performance.
I will be back in the time it takes to eat pizza and play a game of Power Grid... and maybe have a beer or two after that.
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archetype:
Not a lot to look at from early game... first posts that I think have context are:
Did a bit of catching up, not too much for me to say except: I don't think Robz is scum.
I think scum found Robz as an easy bandwagon target and are using that to get him lynched. The same thing was going to happen to Grujah before he responded and the bandwagon got dropped.
I'm going to go back and check the people on the Grujah wagon, and those on the Robz wagon and see if I can find any similarities.
and
Grujah Wagon: Voltgloss, Robz888, Eevee, Captain_Frisk
Robz Wagon: Galzria, Captain_Frisk, Voltgloss, ashersky, jotheonah
I'm going to do a: Fos: C_F
And a Vote: Voltgloss Would scum chickenize themselves to avoid suspicion? As smart as Voltgloss is, I think yes.
other posts worth pointing out:
By 'rethinking their vote' I implied that they were positive that Robz is Mafia (or in scum's case, strong town). I didn't say that because Robz gave me a free pass, I opposed the Robz lynch before then.
and
I'd be more comfortable with a Grujah lynch, but I'll Vote: Jotheonah
so all in all, not much to look at... but he has had a couple of posts that have content and analysis... I would put him in the lurker category for sure, but would be hesitant to put him in the scummy lurking category right now... I didn't like his vote on Voltgloss, and he seems very adamant about Robz being town... I don't think he is high on my could lynch list now.
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Chicken vote: Voltgloss
Chicken chicken chicken chicken
Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken
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Posts that I find suspicious from Cuzz:
Already referenced:
@Volt, I'd probably be just as happy with my vote on Archetype. For some reason he's seemed a bit more visible to me than ashersky, but I just rechecked Insomniac's count and he really only has one more post than ashersky.
followed by his change of mind
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Anyway, unvote. Ashersky is here and participating, and I didn't consider the opposite-hemisphere issue. If we're gonna have someone at L-2 for lurking it probably shouldn't be him right now.
Vote: jotheonah
he votes for jot... for lurking? why not have ashersky at L-2? Just because he is participating doesnt' mean anything, what is the context of his posts?
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Eevee shows up in somewhat scummy 4th place, and makes the awful "enough pressure votes" comment. Eevee has defended this as simply bad town play, but still something has seemed off to me about him this game. {snip} With the exception of Volt, I could honestly see any one of them as scum, though I think Insomniac and Eevee look worst here, followed by Robz. Based on this, and the change in attitude as well, I'll Vote: Eevee.
My vote on joth is downgraded to a FoS but I have not taken my eye off lurkers, and I do want to hear more from him (though I know he has RL reasons).
changes his vote to Eevee for the Grujah wagon
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But yeah, I'd be ok with lynching plenty of people today. Getting slightly scummy vibes from (in no particular order):
Robz (though not as strong as others seem to be; have to reread),
ashersky (though he always seems kinda like this even as town),
Insomniac (due to Grujah wagon nonsense),
Frisk (ditto), and
joth (lurking, though not sure about lynching a chicken).
Maintains that he is willing to lynch joth and continues to find him scummy
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But he never actually gets around to voting for him... I don't know about this... Does it seem scummy to not vote for someone who you had a previous scum read on him once he gets a wagon on him or does it seem town to reanalyze someone you had a scum read on once he has a wagon on him...
I don't disagree that jo has been acting suspiciously even before the curse, but how exactly does "pressure" work against someone who can hardly talk?
So you want to vote for jo, but don't want to encourage his lynch? And you're trying to get more content out of him despite it being really tough for him to express any content at the moment?
I really don't understand self-votes. I can't fathom why a townie would do this, but every time I've seen it happen, it actually has turned out to be a townie.
I won't change my vote on Cuzz... yet at least, I need to think through his reaction to jot... and go back and look at eevee, archetype and grujah
Let's defend Cuzz, because yuma likes to tunnel him! (kinda drunk, sorry)
The Archetype thing that you voted for me for in the first place, I kinda already explained. I guess I fell into Volt's "trap," in that I thought he was saying Archetype was just as scummy as ashersky, and I meant my response as kinda like "umm, ok I guess maybe?" I was just trying to be agreeable, which was stupid and lazy. But I soon corrected myself, because it's true that Archetype had been more full of content (not sure that that holds anymore though).
I unvoted ashersky because he unlurked, and I decided living on the other side of the world might reasonably explain his behavior at the time. Now I should clarify something here: we can't let scum get away with lurking, gathering votes, then unlurking, and having everyone clear them, rinse and repeat. But I think scum lurking is more of a long-term behavior, and ashersky never slipped back into lurkiness since then. Grujah in MXII lurked, came back briefly, lurked more, claimed, lurked more, etc. etc. etc. Ashersky is not cleared by any means, but not my top scumread.
The joth thing I'm torn on. Him too I wanted to give the benefit of the doubt with RL things, but he was very quiet, and then he decided he had time to mod a new game, so idk what to think about that. I just wish he wasn't cursed so I could feel better about my read on him. I can't get a read on a chicken. BTW, some of those comments you quoted me were supposed to be prodding Insomniac about his votes on joth, not actually defending joth. But you quote me saying a lot of things without commentary so I dunno if you're just trying to summarize things I've said or make an actual argument.
But I really don't like your accusation that I'm scummy for not voting for everyone I said might be scum. I listed six people. I have one vote.
We can't no-lynch though. Joth, answer this: are you sincerely voting for Voltgloss in that last post?
I'm confused because 4 chickens was supposed to introduce a "would lynch" list, no? I'm not sure what 4 chickens followed by 7 chickens is.
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All right folks - commencing catchup.
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CHicken vote: Cuzz
Chicken chicken.
CHicken unvote
chicken chicken chicken
chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken
chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken
chicken chicken chicken
chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken
chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken
chicken chicken chicken
chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken
chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken
chicken chicken chicken chicken
chicken chicken chicken chicken
chicken
chicken chicken chicken chicken
chicken chicken
chicken chicken chicken chicken
chicken chicken chicken
chicken?
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@joth -- can you give us your lynch list, like Volt, from least to most?
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Joth - are you trying to point out post #s?
#397 was me saying that Jorbles is the best mod - which doesn't seem to particularly relevant here.
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@Joth - as far as I can tell - you were trying to vote Voltgloss for post #407 - is that correct?
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Chicken vote: Frisk
Chicken
Chicken unvote
chicken chicken chicken chicken
chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken
chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken
chicken
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And you are roleclaiming VT.
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And you are roleclaiming VT.
That's the seven chickens after the four chickens, right?
What's the long line of chickens at the end mean?
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And you are roleclaiming VT.
That's the seven chickens after the four chickens, right?
What's the long line of chickens at the end mean?
The seven after the four is 4 0 7. The 12 - 0 - 1 is the roleclaiming convention. 12 says he's roleclaiming, 1 says he's vanilla.
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And you are roleclaiming VT.
That's the seven chickens after the four chickens, right?
What's the long line of chickens at the end mean?
The seven after the four is 4 0 7. The 12 - 0 - 1 is the roleclaiming convention. 12 says he's roleclaiming, 1 says he's vanilla.
At least - this is my belief. Can you confirm Joth?
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Chicken
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I don't know what to make of that "I won't roleclaim at L-1" -> "Okay I'm a VT" change of heart. But I'm inclined to believe it was because he figured we all guessed he is a VT anyways and didn't want it to seem like he is mafia holding the door open for a fakeclaim later. I believe Joth is sincere guys. (But he could be fooling me.)
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So - I've voted for Volt in the past, and it does seem interesting that he put forward the method for communication right before getting cursed, as if he knew that he might be put out, but I don't see doing that as scum myself.
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Vote: Archetype Lurking and scummy position on wagon.
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now Eevee:
Vote: Grujah
L-3, maybe enough pressure votes for now but we are indeed serious.
His early "pressure" vote on Grujah this is called out a bit which he explains here...
I didn't mean to call it merely a pressure vote, if I gave that vibe it was a mistake or poor wording on my part. However, the entire case against Grujah was that he had logged in to the forums once without posting anything when the game had been on for five hours. You are all good players, but I still felt a need to warn to not get carried away. Maybe I was being overly cautious.
Volt is acting rather jumpy in this game, but might be because of rral life stress or something. Just something that has stood out to me twice now.
This post especially stood out to me as I mentioned before:
Wug the lynch deadline is tomorrow!?
Everyone abandon the Robz wagon asap or we won't have time to build a new one?
Vote: jotheonah no one is suspecting him, that's always scummy. Grujah was an ok place for my vote too.
an interesting interaction with cuzz
Cuzz says this: I noticed this because I've been thinking for most of the day that the Grujah wagon might be a good place to scumhunt. And I mentioned in my analysis a few people who look suspicious after that event, Eevee in particular but Robz to some extent. And here he's basically trying to clear the whole wagon from suspicion.
I still personally find Eevee more suspicious, due to the Grujah thing and change in demeanor, but no one else has really expressed agreement. So I would be willing to go along with a Robz lynch.
to which eevee responded:
Cuzz, how is "the Grujah thing" more of a scum move than a townie mistake from me? I think it has blown out of proportion a bit anyways, I don't think it was THAT big of a deal.
Cuzz is actually looking scummy to me too, but it might only be because I think he unfairly suspects me.
Cuzz responds:
Because I have no clue of your alignment, Eevee, (though I do think you're more likely than anyone else to be scum) so you telling me that it's a "townie mistake" means nothing. Of course scum would claim a "townie mistake" when called out for scummy behavior. I found it scummy because you tried to hop right in the middle of a quickly growing wagon, while trying to steer attention away from your vote by saying it was for "pressure." I also just think that you don't seem like normal super friendly, townie Eevee this game. And I really don't see how genuine scumhunting on my part can be called "unfair."
After MXII when I was the only one to suspect Insomniac early, I'm trying this thing where I don't let my scumreads sputter out just because no one else agrees with me.
with eevee again responding with
I think I've been my friendly self apart from those two days where I behaving the same way in another game we shan't talk about now if anyone is following.
You still haven't explained to me the benefit of intentionally "making the mistake" as scum? Do you propose I was hoping the Grujah wagon takes off and covering for myself for the future when Grujah flips town? If so, why don't you have a town read on Grujah? Do you propose Grujah is my scumbuddy and I was trying to derail the lynch with the comment? If so, why did I vote for him?
For one, I don't think the comment was such a huge deal you are making it to be. And two, I don't think it tells anything about my alignment either way, because scum would get no benefit of doing it intentionally.
This argument is interesting as eevee brings up WIFOM as a defense, especially when he brings up the possibility of him and Grujah as scumbuddies. I am certainly not about to call out a scumpair, let's try to just get one scum for now, but Eevee's defense here seems to hinge on the idea of him voting for a scummate to be ridiculous when we have seen in recent FDS games that it is a viable strategy.
Obviously this isn't all of eevee's posts... but again not enough for me to change my vote, I would still put him toward the scummier side because some of his interactions with other players have been... well scummy feeling, but not enough to warrant a vote
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Yuma,, we weren't (well, at least I wasn't) talking about the fact I voted on Grujah. I was trying to ask Cuzz why he thinks my comment makes me seem like mafia. He hasn't answered that (which is why I feel he unjustly suspects me).
In short he has said he suspects me because of the Grujah incident, we have established the comment attached to the vote was a bad town play, but he hasn't responded I'd be more likely to make the comment if I was mafia.
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Vote: Archetype Lurking and scummy position on wagon.
This is a serious vote folks - I know time is short, but I don't see Joth as scum. We always lynch VT claims, and they turn out town. I'd rather policy lynch a lurker over policy lynch a VT claim.
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Vote: Archetype Lurking and scummy position on wagon.
That's ironic. I'm in the same position as you were on the Grujah wagon.
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And Grujah:
First off originally I didn't put much stock into the Grujah drunk debate earlier in the day. Him being drunk obviously has no bearing on his alignment. However, I still don't understand why he--or anyone else for that matter--feels compelled to tell us when he is drunk posting. For me it means absolutely nothing. If you post it drunk or if you post it sober I will hold you just as accountable. That said, let's see what he has said, drunk or sober...
Grujah gets the votes on him and is pretty good at being active early on.
he gets an early, serious, vote down on insomniac:
Insomniac - way he protects me going L-1 is seemed fake. There was NO chance of quickhammer. Well, there was some, but I would give my life gladly if it meant catching scum. Any town would.
But honestly there just isn't a lot there... lot's of trying to figure out how to use chickentalk and I found this little gem
Now, I find these often "I'm going to reread all now, and than comment" a bit scummy, actually. Done this too much as scum. I can elaborate if necessary.
followed by:
Now, I REALLY have to study today, but I'll try to get around posting my views, after I review the situation.
on October 21; 9 am forum time
which he doesn't do unless you count this next post October 22; 6 pm forum time.
1. shraeye - I don't know, not much, slight scum vibe. Wouldn't object lynching, but not too hot about it.
2. Robz888 - Acting strangely, I hafta admit. Would lynch.
3. Voltgloss - Generally normal Volt, tries hard even as chicken, slight town read.
4. Eevee - Too cocky lately - would lynch.
5. yuma - invisible. Would lynch cuz he is known for this.
6. Galzria - Nothing too spectacular, generally town read. Wouldn't lynch.
7. Insomniac - Top lynch, overall scummy, stated reasons before, didn't improve.
8. ashersky - meh, his been making weird looking cases all around, on a scummy side, below Robz though, I think. Would lynch.
Also, recent reaction to jo's jo vote looks fake.
9. Captain_Frisk - Lurky, was a bit scummy on start, sligh scum read, Wouldn't object lynching, but not too hot about it.
10. Grujah - Hi.
11. Archetype - Neutral. Don't care.
12. jotheonah - lurk heavy. Would lynch. This self vote doesn't help.
13. Cuzz - Towny read, trust him, plays naturally. Wouldn't lynch.
but that isn't really the content I would expect from town Grujah... that looks more like something that a busy scum Grujah threw together to make it look like he was participating.
This is enough for me to vote: Grujah
and to recap: I am still ok with a Cuzz lynch--but I think I am the only one to vote him in a long while. I will check in really quick before I leave for the day in the morning, but after that I will likely be gone til after the deadline with school and work.
If neither Grujah or Cuzz lynches look like they will go through by morning, I will quickly try to reasses the situation in the morning.
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I'm in pretty much exactly the same boat as yuma - like Cuzz and Grujah lynches the best.
Vote: Grujah because there is a vote on him already, off to sleeps now but I'll be back to see what's up in ~10 hours.
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I was just about to unvote Jotheonah, because I don't believe Jo would claim VT at L-1 so close to deadline. Surely claiming a PR makes him more likely to live.
And then I remembered that scum can't claim PR, because we know how many of what we've got. Fake claims get counterclaimed.
With that in mind, I think what Jo did--first refusing to claim, then claiming VT--might be exactly how scum would behave when trying to decide who/what/where to claim.
Why are we unvoting Jo?
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He couldn't have known if the VT claim was going to save him. By claiming a power role scum-joth would have at the very least outed a power role for his buddies.
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I was just about to unvote Jotheonah, because I don't believe Jo would claim VT at L-1 so close to deadline. Surely claiming a PR makes him more likely to live.
And then I remembered that scum can't claim PR, because we know how many of what we've got. Fake claims get counterclaimed.
With that in mind, I think what Jo did--first refusing to claim, then claiming VT--might be exactly how scum would behave when trying to decide who/what/where to claim.
Why are we unvoting Jo?
Because we lynch counter claims first according to some other analysis, and its still better to get a town PR lynched and live for a day than get lynched as VT.
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I was just about to unvote Jotheonah, because I don't believe Jo would claim VT at L-1 so close to deadline. Surely claiming a PR makes him more likely to live.
And then I remembered that scum can't claim PR, because we know how many of what we've got. Fake claims get counterclaimed.
With that in mind, I think what Jo did--first refusing to claim, then claiming VT--might be exactly how scum would behave when trying to decide who/what/where to claim.
Why are we unvoting Jo?
Because we lynch counter claims first according to some other analysis, and its still better to get a town PR lynched and live for a day than get lynched as VT.
As such - he should still claim most of the time as scum.
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He couldn't have known if the VT claim was going to save him. By claiming a power role scum-joth would have at the very least outed a power role for his buddies.
Yeah, but if he claims a power role he outs somebody but long term he dies for sure. And that's a very hard thing for scum to actually do, to lie when they KNOW they will be counterclaimed. So, do they do it? It's hard to say. But I can see very much testing the ground with a middle option, claiming nothing, first.
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Vote Count 1.12:
Eevee (1): Cuzz
Robz888 (2): Galzria, Voltgloss
jotheonah (5): Insomniac, Robz888, Archetype, ashersky, Grujah
Grujah (2): Eevee, yuma
Archetype (1): Captain_Frisk
Not voting (2): shraeye, jotheonah
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Currently Cursed: Voltgloss, jotheonah
Curse deadline: Tuesday Oct 23, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
Lynch deadline: Tuesday Oct 23, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
Back, I didn't win Power Grid :( 3rd place.
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Chicken vote: Robz888
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Last post until D2, but I have a bad feeling about the jo lynch.
Vote: Grujah I was on the fence with jo and Grujah, but now I'm leaning a lot more towards Grujah.
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No Lynch here we come!
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I will not be back online before the deadline either, I don't think. It looks like everyone has had the opportunity to weigh a Jo lynch, and has passed on it? In that case, I will also Vote: Grujah.
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I will not be back online before the deadline either, I don't think. It looks like everyone has had the opportunity to weigh a Jo lynch, and has passed on it? In that case, I will also Vote: Grujah.
The deadline is 3pm forum time you'll be here before then, and I urge you to consider Jo again, I think he's a good bet and he's at 5 with you which is L-2
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I will not be back online before the deadline either, I don't think. It looks like everyone has had the opportunity to weigh a Jo lynch, and has passed on it? In that case, I will also Vote: Grujah.
The deadline is 3pm forum time you'll be here before then, and I urge you to consider Jo again, I think he's a good bet and he's at 5 with you which is L-2
Oh I thought it was noon. Oh, I see my mistake. Well, you don't need to convince me, I am all for lynching Jo. But it seems 7 people are not. I'll check back in the morning, before deadline, then.
Vote: Jotheonah
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Vote: Robz888
Too calm, calculated, not the hothead Robz that he as town. Also, towny read on both Volt and Galz who are voting him ATM.
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vote: Robz
I studied the wagons again, and my original and strongest scum read matches up with others I think are towny (Grujah, Galz), and I still trust that read the best.
We can't no lynch today. It's night here and deadline is 6 am my time. I am good with this vote, have been all day.
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What happened to lynch all lurkers?
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Quick post before I go rotate in Microbiology. Yay! Salmonella!
Of the three wagons that could reach a lynch later today, but best read is on Grujah.
Robz~maybe... and jot... I was against lynching him before he claimed and I still am.
But I will keep my vote on Grujah. With Eevee and Archetype on it with me and Robz apparently willing to join, it looks like the best place for my vote to be.
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Chicken Vote: Cuzz
Chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken Unvote
Chicken Vote: shraeye
Chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken Unvote
Chicken Vote: Robz888
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Vote Count 1.13:
Eevee (1): Cuzz
Robz888 (5): Galzria, Voltgloss, jotheonah, Grujah, ashersky
jotheonah (2): Insomniac, Robz888
Grujah (3): Eevee, yuma, Archetype
Archetype (1): Captain_Frisk
Not voting (1): shraeye
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Currently Cursed: Voltgloss, jotheonah
Curse deadline: Tuesday Oct 23, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
Lynch deadline: Tuesday Oct 23, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
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In the interests of seeing the claim before deadline and lynch > no lynch etc...
Vote: RobZ
I still think Archetype is our man.
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Here's an updated post count plus commentary. I do not count pre-game, I do count RVS.
Archetype: 24 -- Well this is SO low, but as I said, it's pretty typical for Archetype, whether town or mafia. Does anyone disagree?
yuma: 24 -- Now this is troubling. Mafia yuma has been a lurker in the past, and he should be getting more active now that he's played so many games, not less active.
jotheonah: 26 -- Much has already been made about Jo's lack of activity. I support the Jo lynch.
shraeye: 32 -- This is also oddly low, based on what we know about shraeye.
ashersky: 37 -- Not quite so low as typical ashersky, and ashersky is super scummy, but no one agrees with me, so whatever.
Galzria: 37 -- Much lower than usual Galzria. Has anyone noticed? He is the top Forum Games poster.
Voltgloss: 40 -- This is fine, especially considering Voltgloss got cursed. He's done a remarkable job of communicating anyway. Possibly because it was staged.
Cuzz: 47 -- I don't know what to think about Cuzz. I trust myself very little with respect to Cuzz, after M-XII.
Grujah: 50 -- He's more active than I remembered. He got more active as the day went on, I guess. Not so sure that he's a great lynch, based on posting at least.
Insomniac: 57 -- We know scum Insomniac can mass-post. Still, I have no reason to suspect him at this time.
Captain_Frisk: 65 -- This was the big surprise to me, because I didn't remember Frisk saying nearly this much. It turns out Frisk posts virtually nothing but single sentences. If you think my posts are brief and rapid fire, re-read Frisk.
Eevee: 66 -- Eevee hasn't seemed any different than usual to me, despite what others have said.
Robz888: 69 -- My own post count is a bit inflated due what ashersky noted--that I now prefer short series of posts--and because I have been under attack much of the day, per usual.
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Vote: Grujah
I don't like the Robz wagon, I have a null read on Galz and a scummyish read on Grujah and Ash. Combined with my thought that Robz is town playing scummily and you have my complete aversion.
I do not think I will vote for Robz today.
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Here's an updated post count plus commentary. I do not count pre-game, I do count RVS.
Archetype: 24 -- Well this is SO low, but as I said, it's pretty typical for Archetype, whether town or mafia. Does anyone disagree?
yuma: 24 -- Now this is troubling. Mafia yuma has been a lurker in the past, and he should be getting more active now that he's played so many games, not less active.
jotheonah: 26 -- Much has already been made about Jo's lack of activity. I support the Jo lynch.
shraeye: 32 -- This is also oddly low, based on what we know about shraeye.
ashersky: 37 -- Not quite so low as typical ashersky, and ashersky is super scummy, but no one agrees with me, so whatever.
Galzria: 37 -- Much lower than usual Galzria. Has anyone noticed? He is the top Forum Games poster.
Voltgloss: 40 -- This is fine, especially considering Voltgloss got cursed. He's done a remarkable job of communicating anyway. Possibly because it was staged.
Cuzz: 47 -- I don't know what to think about Cuzz. I trust myself very little with respect to Cuzz, after M-XII.
Grujah: 50 -- He's more active than I remembered. He got more active as the day went on, I guess. Not so sure that he's a great lynch, based on posting at least.
Insomniac: 57 -- We know scum Insomniac can mass-post. Still, I have no reason to suspect him at this time.
Captain_Frisk: 65 -- This was the big surprise to me, because I didn't remember Frisk saying nearly this much. It turns out Frisk posts virtually nothing but single sentences. If you think my posts are brief and rapid fire, re-read Frisk.
Eevee: 66 -- Eevee hasn't seemed any different than usual to me, despite what others have said.
Robz888: 69 -- My own post count is a bit inflated due what ashersky noted--that I now prefer short series of posts--and because I have been under attack much of the day, per usual.
1. Is there anyone you don't suspect?
2. You're at L-1 - no reaction?
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Want to Lynch: Ashersky
Would Be Happy to Lynch: Jotheonah, yuma, Archetype
Would Lynch: Everyone
Would Still Lynch, But Not Feel Great About: Insomniac, Eevee
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I agree with Robz's commentaries regarding post counts. I like where my vote is.
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1. Is there anyone you don't suspect?
2. You're at L-1 - no reaction?
1). I answered that in my next post. I am not so sold on anyone being town, so I would lynch anyone, but I really don't suspect Insomniac or Eevee at the moment.
2). I don't think I'm going to get lynched, so no.
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1. Is there anyone you don't suspect?
2. You're at L-1 - no reaction?
1). I answered that in my next post. I am not so sold on anyone being town, so I would lynch anyone, but I really don't suspect Insomniac or Eevee at the moment.
2). I don't think I'm going to get lynched, so no.
@2) While I said I wasn't willing to lynch you, no one else has expressed a similar sentiment so thats quite a statement for someone at L-1
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1. Is there anyone you don't suspect?
2. You're at L-1 - no reaction?
1). I answered that in my next post. I am not so sold on anyone being town, so I would lynch anyone, but I really don't suspect Insomniac or Eevee at the moment.
2). I don't think I'm going to get lynched, so no.
@2) While I said I wasn't willing to lynch you, no one else has expressed a similar sentiment so thats quite a statement for someone at L-1
I'm a a man of faith (in the context of Forum Mafia).
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Vote: Grujah, because that's the other wagon. I think ashersky, yuma, archetype, Jo, and Frisk are all better choices, but oh well.
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Aren't you doing something you said was scummy when joth did it, Robz? Talking about the refusal to claim. I'm not saying you are scummy, I'm saying Ineon't find the accusations towards Joth jutified when you yourself do the exact same thing. It's an inconsistency I think would make sense for mafia too, because obviously you would have wanted the joth lynch go through if he is town and you are scum.
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Aren't you doing something you said was scummy when joth did it, Robz? Talking about the refusal to claim. I'm not saying you are scummy, I'm saying Ineon't find the accusations towards Joth jutified when you yourself do the exact same thing. It's an inconsistency I think would make sense for mafia too, because obviously you would have wanted the joth lynch go through if he is town and you are scum.
Uh, yeah, I see what you're saying. Maybe this is just bias, though, but I thought Joth was in danger, whereas I do not think I am. I don't think I'm going to be lynched. I am trusting in the fact that the arguments against me aren't persuasive, so no one is going to hammer me. And if I am not actually going to die, I don't want to give the scum any additional information (either me claiming a PR, or claiming VT so that they can be more likely to find a PR).
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Aren't you doing something you said was scummy when joth did it, Robz? Talking about the refusal to claim. I'm not saying you are scummy, I'm saying Ineon't find the accusations towards Joth jutified when you yourself do the exact same thing. It's an inconsistency I think would make sense for mafia too, because obviously you would have wanted the joth lynch go through if he is town and you are scum.
Uh, yeah, I see what you're saying. Maybe this is just bias, though, but I thought Joth was in danger, whereas I do not think I am. I don't think I'm going to be lynched. I am trusting in the fact that the arguments against me aren't persuasive, so no one is going to hammer me. And if I am not actually going to die, I don't want to give the scum any additional information (either me claiming a PR, or claiming VT so that they can be more likely to find a PR).
You think we're going to lynch someone else in 3 hours?
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Aren't you doing something you said was scummy when joth did it, Robz? Talking about the refusal to claim. I'm not saying you are scummy, I'm saying Ineon't find the accusations towards Joth jutified when you yourself do the exact same thing. It's an inconsistency I think would make sense for mafia too, because obviously you would have wanted the joth lynch go through if he is town and you are scum.
Uh, yeah, I see what you're saying. Maybe this is just bias, though, but I thought Joth was in danger, whereas I do not think I am. I don't think I'm going to be lynched. I am trusting in the fact that the arguments against me aren't persuasive, so no one is going to hammer me. And if I am not actually going to die, I don't want to give the scum any additional information (either me claiming a PR, or claiming VT so that they can be more likely to find a PR).
You think we're going to lynch someone else in 3 hours?
I think were headed to No Lynch, but I am here, trying to get some other lynch accomplished.
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Aren't you doing something you said was scummy when joth did it, Robz? Talking about the refusal to claim. I'm not saying you are scummy, I'm saying Ineon't find the accusations towards Joth jutified when you yourself do the exact same thing. It's an inconsistency I think would make sense for mafia too, because obviously you would have wanted the joth lynch go through if he is town and you are scum.
Uh, yeah, I see what you're saying. Maybe this is just bias, though, but I thought Joth was in danger, whereas I do not think I am. I don't think I'm going to be lynched. I am trusting in the fact that the arguments against me aren't persuasive, so no one is going to hammer me. And if I am not actually going to die, I don't want to give the scum any additional information (either me claiming a PR, or claiming VT so that they can be more likely to find a PR).
You think we're going to lynch someone else in 3 hours?
I think were headed to No Lynch, but I am here, trying to get some other lynch accomplished.
You could have joined me on Archetype last night.
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Aren't you doing something you said was scummy when joth did it, Robz? Talking about the refusal to claim. I'm not saying you are scummy, I'm saying Ineon't find the accusations towards Joth jutified when you yourself do the exact same thing. It's an inconsistency I think would make sense for mafia too, because obviously you would have wanted the joth lynch go through if he is town and you are scum.
Uh, yeah, I see what you're saying. Maybe this is just bias, though, but I thought Joth was in danger, whereas I do not think I am. I don't think I'm going to be lynched. I am trusting in the fact that the arguments against me aren't persuasive, so no one is going to hammer me. And if I am not actually going to die, I don't want to give the scum any additional information (either me claiming a PR, or claiming VT so that they can be more likely to find a PR).
You think we're going to lynch someone else in 3 hours?
I think were headed to No Lynch, but I am here, trying to get some other lynch accomplished.
You could have joined me on Archetype last night.
I'll go Archetype. Let's Archetype it up.
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Aren't you doing something you said was scummy when joth did it, Robz? Talking about the refusal to claim. I'm not saying you are scummy, I'm saying Ineon't find the accusations towards Joth jutified when you yourself do the exact same thing. It's an inconsistency I think would make sense for mafia too, because obviously you would have wanted the joth lynch go through if he is town and you are scum.
Uh, yeah, I see what you're saying. Maybe this is just bias, though, but I thought Joth was in danger, whereas I do not think I am. I don't think I'm going to be lynched. I am trusting in the fact that the arguments against me aren't persuasive, so no one is going to hammer me. And if I am not actually going to die, I don't want to give the scum any additional information (either me claiming a PR, or claiming VT so that they can be more likely to find a PR).
You think we're going to lynch someone else in 3 hours?
I think were headed to No Lynch, but I am here, trying to get some other lynch accomplished.
You could have joined me on Archetype last night.
I'll go Archetype. Let's Archetype it up.
Too late - you had your chance to get in on that. You just ignored it.
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Vote Count 1.14:
Eevee (1): Cuzz
Robz888 (6): Galzria, Voltgloss, jotheonah, Grujah, ashersky, Captain_Frisk
Grujah (5): Eevee, yuma, Archetype, Insomniac, Robz888
Not voting (1): shraeye
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Currently Cursed: Voltgloss, jotheonah
Curse deadline: Tuesday Oct 23, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
Lynch deadline: Tuesday Oct 23, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
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Why isn't shraeye voting?
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Robz, fwiw I will hammer you just before the deadline if nolynch is the alternative. I don't like archetype lynch.
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can we make a shraeye lynch happen?
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Robz, fwiw I will hammer you just before the deadline if nolynch is the alternative. I don't like archetype lynch.
Gulp, don't please!
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Why isn't shraeye voting?
Yeah, that's ridiculous. Where the hell is everybody!
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can we make a shraeye lynch happen?
I would wholeheartedly support a shraeye lynch. No reservations. He is way lurkier than normal. He's usually crazy.
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Robz, fwiw I will hammer you just before the deadline if nolynch is the alternative. I don't like archetype lynch.
All right RobZ - that's an intent to hammer.
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can we make a shraeye lynch happen?
shraeye is rapidly climbing up my suspicion list with his silence at this crucial juncture in the game. I will absolutely hammer Robz before my class at 2:30 if we are headed to no-lynch, but for now I'll Vote: shraeye and see who joins me.
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Robz, fwiw I will hammer you just before the deadline if nolynch is the alternative. I don't like archetype lynch.
All right RobZ - that's an intent to hammer.
I am a Vanilla Townie.
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Shraeye is missing from Hanabi I, FWIW.
@Robz - obvious fakeclaim is obvious.
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Shraeye is missing from Hanabi I, FWIW.
@Robz - obvious fakeclaim is obvious.
You mean you don't believe me?
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If shraeye is simply not on, rushing his lynch might not be smart, just because we have two guys that at least can't be power roles as alternatives.
We have Frisk, Cuzz, me and Robz here, we should be able to get some lynch through though.
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If shraeye is simply not on, rushing his lynch might not be smart, just because we have two guys that at least can't be power roles as alternatives.
We have Frisk, Cuzz, me and Robz here, we should be able to get some lynch through though.
And Grujah.
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Robz, fwiw I will hammer you just before the deadline if nolynch is the alternative. I don't like archetype lynch.
Whats your issue with Archetype lynch?
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Chicken vote: Archetype
Chicken vote: shraeye
Chicken vote: Grujah
Chicken vote: Robz888
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I don't suppose I can convince you guys to just trust me on ashersky? He is the correct lynch.
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I don't suppose I can convince you guys to just trust me on ashersky? He is the correct lynch.
Why didn't you mention this last night?
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Robz, fwiw I will hammer you just before the deadline if nolynch is the alternative. I don't like archetype lynch.
Whats your issue with Archetype lynch?
He is the quiet type, but this time he has had reasonable content when he has posted. Or do you think his play would appear more pro town if he was mafia?
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But yeah, he is awfully quite for his usual monster-posts [shareye, that is]. We're not gonna get a new lynch in 3 hours. Should be put under scrutiny tomorrow - and hard.
I am kinda confident that Robz will turn scum actually. I'd be willing to trade 1-1 with him, if he agrees to such terms (i.e. we lynch one and other ones self-votes tomorrow).
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I don't suppose I can convince you guys to just trust me on ashersky? He is the correct lynch.
Why didn't you mention this last night?
I have said a BUNCH of times that ashersky is SUPER scummy. He is playing to me like the guy who got his first scum role. He is trying to direct the lynch more than usual, and is lurking a little less than usual. He isn't yet up to "level 2" scum play, where you just lurk until called out, or "level 3" scum play, where you neither lurk nor make bad arguments to achieve your desired lynch. He's me from M-II.
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I'm also here and FWIW shraeye hasn't been online since the 21st. I think he mentioned funday monday that lasts till tuesday evening?
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But yeah, he is awfully quite for his usual monster-posts [shareye, that is]. We're not gonna get a new lynch in 3 hours. Should be put under scrutiny tomorrow - and hard.
I am kinda confident that Robz will turn scum actually. I'd be willing to trade 1-1 with him, if he agrees to such terms (i.e. we lynch one and other ones self-votes tomorrow).
I agree to be lynched tomorrow if you agree to be lynched today, if that's the deal.
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I'm also here and FWIW shraeye hasn't been online since the 21st. I think he mentioned funday monday that lasts till tuesday evening?
Oh, this is totally true. Yeah, he's away. Damn.
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Caught up and here now.
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But yeah, he is awfully quite for his usual monster-posts [shareye, that is]. We're not gonna get a new lynch in 3 hours. Should be put under scrutiny tomorrow - and hard.
I am kinda confident that Robz will turn scum actually. I'd be willing to trade 1-1 with him, if he agrees to such terms (i.e. we lynch one and other ones self-votes tomorrow).
I agree to be lynched tomorrow if you agree to be lynched today, if that's the deal.
That's less than ideal, why do you get to have the advantage? I'd say whomever gets lynched today, the other one goes tomorrow.
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That, of course, if today's lynch comes up as town.
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Grujah stop being silly and scummy, If your town and Robz flips town your screwing town.
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Yeah, not sure why Grujah is advocating townie lynch (from his perspective) two days in a row.
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That, of course, if today's lynch comes up as town.
Deal, now vote for yourself. I insist that you go first.
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Look at it this way, Robz. Eevee's gonna hammer you anyway, you do it yourself, and if you really think you are scum, you have your vote on your prime scum candidate tomorrow (and 1 less cum vote to go around).
PPE: Oh, hi. Ok, I'll vote myself and you'll vote yourself? Fine.
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VOTE: RobZ
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Was that it, you stupid sons of bitches?
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Pardon me, I mean that light heartedly, although this is truly awful.
Kill Galzria and Volt, they should have known what I was doing.
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No - I was already voting you.
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...
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What the hell was that for then, to freak me out?
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What would Galz and Volt know that you were doing?
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Nop, C_F is already voting for you, AFAIK.
Now, that last comment is particuallry not townie. That is, it seemed awfully scummy. As in damning.
So, Vote: Grujah.
Vote yourself now, Robz.
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that comment being "sons of bitches".
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that comment being "sons of bitches".
Why? I see it the other way around.
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What would Galz and Volt know that you were doing?
They should know that town Robz is scummy and scum Robz is calculating, is what I meant. They should have known my behavior is not in line with scum Robz.
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Which was your plan, as to cover that you in fact, GASP, are scum?
Vote for yourself, now?
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Which was your plan, as to cover that you in fact, GASP, are scum?
Vote for yourself, now?
VOTE: GRUJAH
YOU ARE SO DAMN SCUMMY RIGHT NOW
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Dude, C_F has done that just a minute ago.
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Dude, C_F has done that just a minute ago.
Yea and you and your self vote and lynch the other tomorrow is stupid and you keep getting scummier by pushing it.
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That, of course, if today's lynch comes up as town.
Deal, now vote for yourself. I insist that you go first.
Maybe I read this wrong, but didn't it mean that after I vote for myself first, you would follow? As in, you lied to me now?
(maybe I also misunderstood it, that you actually though that you'll vote tomorrow, which was a meh deal, in that case).
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Unvote untill we sort the deal out. Also out to buy food, brb.
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That, of course, if today's lynch comes up as town.
Deal, now vote for yourself. I insist that you go first.
Maybe I read this wrong, but didn't it mean that after I vote for myself first, you would follow? As in, you lied to me now?
(maybe I also misunderstood it, that you actually though that you'll vote tomorrow, which was a meh deal, in that case).
Yeah man, I am not voting for myself today, because I don't want to die. Are you crazy? I'll vote for myself tomorrow, but you go first, scum. I mean your deal is crazy, but you may be scum and I know that I'm not.
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I demand a vote count. Also, an end to gigantic votes for people you're already voting for. It's freaky and confusing.
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Well, that's not a fair deal. Mine was that whomever naturally get's lynch today, other ones will sac his ass tommoz. Voting for myself I will not do, if it is only my part of the deal, and not yours too.
Vote: Robz888
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VC:
shraeye (1): Cuzz
Robz888 (6): Galzria, Voltgloss, jotheonah, Grujah, ashersky, Captain_Frisk
Grujah (5): Eevee, yuma, Archetype, Insomniac, Robz888
Not voting (1): shraeye
Right?
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Well, that's not a fair deal. Mine was that whomever naturally get's lynch today, other ones will sac his ass tommoz. Voting for myself I will not do, if it is only my part of the deal, and not yours too.
Vote: Robz888
Okay, I didn't understand the deal. But if you kill yourself today I will kill myself tomorrow. That deal I'll make.
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Vote Count 1.15:
Robz888 (6): Galzria, Voltgloss, ashersky, Captain_Frisk, jotheonah, Grujah
Grujah (5): Eevee, yuma, Archetype, Insomniac, Robz888
shraeye (1): Cuzz
Not voting (1): shraeye
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Currently Cursed: Voltgloss, jotheonah
Curse deadline: Tuesday Oct 23, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
Lynch deadline: Tuesday Oct 23, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
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So, basically everyone has got to choose between Grujah and Robz now. It's going to be either of them. I like Grujah more, although his gambits look more like stupid town play than anything tbh.
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unvote
Parsing my thoughts:
Grujah is town. Scum Grujah would -never- have offered a 1-1 trade on Robz unless Robz were also scum, which I just don't believe (that they're both scum, I mean). Basically, scum Grujah would KNOW Robz was town... There would be 0 reason for him to throw this offer of lynch trades on the table against a player already likely to be lynched.
Now, on the flip side, Robz comes back that he'll agree only if we lynch Grujah first - but Robz HAS to recognize the above and know with near certainty that Grujah is town. From his perspective - look, I know Robz better than this. He would NEVER, no matter the circumstances, agree to being lynched. He would never self vote or promote his own death. If we lynched Grujah and Grujah flipped town, Robz would fight just as hard against his own lynch tomorrow.
So, how believable is Robz' "let's lynch you first?". Personally? It's not. From town or scum Robz. So the sticking point I have is Robz' attitude that lynching Grujah should be ok, because I really don't see how Grujah could be scum after his proposal
To Robz himself: His "I won't get lynched" reeks of O's "You all won't lynch me anyway" in M-VIII where O (and Robz) were scum. Basically it came down to: To many town were inactive or thought O was just being O - asinine, but not scummy - and since he wasn't going to be bussed hard, there was no chance he would be lynched.
I've -never- understood that attitude. If you don't want to claim, that's one thing. But to act like there are enough people in the game that don't want you dead speaks towards knowing you've got people who will have your back. Robz then came out and claimed VT... Now, if he were a PR, MAYBE I could see a "I'm too important and valuable, so won't get lynched" attitude... But that's not the case here.
So I'm having a really hard time here. I hate bring wrong, though it's often inevitable. From an emotional standpoint, Robz has given me a town feel. But on actual substance I just don't draw that same conclusion.
So... I'm going to return to Vote: Robz. If I were to put a percentage on it, I would read 65% scum. But that's higher than I have on anybody else, and I'm comfortable enough with my read to keep my name on this wagon.
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Pardon me, I mean that light heartedly, although this is truly awful.
Kill Galzria and Volt, they should have known what I was doing.
BTW What he means here, is what Volt wrote in MXII Modnotes, and I copied in thread. That scum robz is calculating and that town robz is a wreck. I think he wanted to play that way, cuz he knows that Volt noticed that, so that Volt would defend him and later maybe flip town (Volt).
Still trying to go to shop.
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Chicken Vote: Galzria
Chicken.
Chicken Unvote
Chicken Vote: Robz888
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unvote
Parsing my thoughts:
Grujah is town. Scum Grujah would -never- have offered a 1-1 trade on Robz unless Robz were also scum, which I just don't believe (that they're both scum, I mean). Basically, scum Grujah would KNOW Robz was town... There would be 0 reason for him to throw this offer of lynch trades on the table against a player already likely to be lynched.
Now, on the flip side, Robz comes back that he'll agree only if we lynch Grujah first - but Robz HAS to recognize the above and know with near certainty that Grujah is town. From his perspective - look, I know Robz better than this. He would NEVER, no matter the circumstances, agree to being lynched. He would never self vote or promote his own death. If we lynched Grujah and Grujah flipped town, Robz would fight just as hard against his own lynch tomorrow.
So, how believable is Robz' "let's lynch you first?". Personally? It's not. From town or scum Robz. So the sticking point I have is Robz' attitude that lynching Grujah should be ok, because I really don't see how Grujah could be scum after his proposal
To Robz himself: His "I won't get lynched" reeks of O's "You all won't lynch me anyway" in M-VIII where O (and Robz) were scum. Basically it came down to: To many town were inactive or thought O was just being O - asinine, but not scummy - and since he wasn't going to be bussed hard, there was no chance he would be lynched.
I've -never- understood that attitude. If you don't want to claim, that's one thing. But to act like there are enough people in the game that don't want you dead speaks towards knowing you've got people who will have your back. Robz then came out and claimed VT... Now, if he were a PR, MAYBE I could see a "I'm too important and valuable, so won't get lynched" attitude... But that's not the case here.
So I'm having a really hard time here. I hate bring wrong, though it's often inevitable. From an emotional standpoint, Robz has given me a town feel. But on actual substance I just don't draw that same conclusion.
So... I'm going to return to Vote: Robz. If I were to put a percentage on it, I would read 65% scum. But that's higher than I have on anybody else, and I'm comfortable enough with my read to keep my name on this wagon.
False when was the last time someone on FDS said they would be the next day lynch target and ACTUALLY were? Oh thats right noone ever follows through on the lynch me tomorrow if X is town because its TERRIBLE for town to do so.
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yuma just hammered Robz, right?
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Nah it was Galzria, damn your similar avatars. No hammer yet, Galz was on Robz already.
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unvote
Parsing my thoughts:
Scum Grujah would -never- have offered a 1-1 trade on Robz unless Robz were also scum, which I just don't believe (that they're both scum, I mean).
Why not? I might have actually told Robz' in our QT that I'd do this to gain town points. I didn't, though. :P
(for those still stuck on semantics, no, this is not a scumslip where it slips me that we have a QT and that I just didn't post this thing there).
Ins - when did we have this kind of situation before?
PPE: @Eevee, I know, I had same situation when I was drunk. :P
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unvote
Parsing my thoughts:
Grujah is town. Scum Grujah would -never- have offered a 1-1 trade on Robz unless Robz were also scum, which I just don't believe (that they're both scum, I mean). Basically, scum Grujah would KNOW Robz was town... There would be 0 reason for him to throw this offer of lynch trades on the table against a player already likely to be lynched.
Now, on the flip side, Robz comes back that he'll agree only if we lynch Grujah first - but Robz HAS to recognize the above and know with near certainty that Grujah is town. From his perspective - look, I know Robz better than this. He would NEVER, no matter the circumstances, agree to being lynched. He would never self vote or promote his own death. If we lynched Grujah and Grujah flipped town, Robz would fight just as hard against his own lynch tomorrow.
So, how believable is Robz' "let's lynch you first?". Personally? It's not. From town or scum Robz. So the sticking point I have is Robz' attitude that lynching Grujah should be ok, because I really don't see how Grujah could be scum after his proposal
To Robz himself: His "I won't get lynched" reeks of O's "You all won't lynch me anyway" in M-VIII where O (and Robz) were scum. Basically it came down to: To many town were inactive or thought O was just being O - asinine, but not scummy - and since he wasn't going to be bussed hard, there was no chance he would be lynched.
I've -never- understood that attitude. If you don't want to claim, that's one thing. But to act like there are enough people in the game that don't want you dead speaks towards knowing you've got people who will have your back. Robz then came out and claimed VT... Now, if he were a PR, MAYBE I could see a "I'm too important and valuable, so won't get lynched" attitude... But that's not the case here.
So I'm having a really hard time here. I hate bring wrong, though it's often inevitable. From an emotional standpoint, Robz has given me a town feel. But on actual substance I just don't draw that same conclusion.
So... I'm going to return to Vote: Robz. If I were to put a percentage on it, I would read 65% scum. But that's higher than I have on anybody else, and I'm comfortable enough with my read to keep my name on this wagon.
False when was the last time someone on FDS said they would be the next day lynch target and ACTUALLY were? Oh thats right noone ever follows through on the lynch me tomorrow if X is town because its TERRIBLE for town to do so.
... Which is -exactly- what I said relating to Robz. So what's false about my statement?
Grujah is town for it because he made it WHEN THERE WAS NO PRESSURE ON HIM AND ROBZ WAS ALREADY AT L-1. Understand? Scum Grujah had NO reason to open his big mouth when the lynch was likely to go through anyway. All he did was put his name in direct contrast to Robz' FOR NO REASON.
Grujah is 95% town after that.
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My short answer to the whole Grujah proposition deal is this... I was lying. No, I wouldn't vote for myself tomorrow, or advocate my death in any way, shape or form. I care more about the town winning than keeping promises, especially stupid promises.
To be honest, there are many, many people who I think are more likely than Grujah to be scum. Ashersky for one (he is scum, as far as I am concerned). I also prefer lynches of yuma or Archetype, who are lurkers. Sharaeye has an excuse, fine. Separately, I think Jotheonah is scummier than Grujah. Volt and Galzria as well. In fact, the only people I find less scummy than Grujah are Frisk, Insomniac, and Eevee.
But the thing is, I've been wrong before, and the only thing I know for certain is that I am town. And I will lie, cheat, and steal to not be lynched today. Since Grujah is the only alternative, I'll promise him anything so that he goes down now, not me.
This is far from ideal, as I also suspect he's town (crazy, but town). But he has some chance of being scum, whereas I have none, in my view.
Does that explain my actions? If Galzria, Grujah, Eevee, Insomniac, Frisk and myself are all here can't we lynch someone else? How about ashersky? Though we still need 1 more I suppose. Ugh.
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Grujah is town for it because he made it WHEN THERE WAS NO PRESSURE ON HIM AND ROBZ WAS ALREADY AT L-1. Understand? Scum Grujah had NO reason to open his big mouth when the lynch was likely to go through anyway. All he did was put his name in direct contrast to Robz' FOR NO REASON.
Grujah is 95% town after that.
Now you sound like Frisk in M-XII. "Scum Grujah would never not read that Cuzz had already claimed Doctor, and also claim Doctor and be drunk!"
Frisk, why don't you share how far that thinking about Grujah got us. Go ahead.
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@Galz no I don't understand because Grujah is at L-2. That IS pressure.
@Grujah multiple games can't recall any off the top of my head, I was the first instance of it I believe in M2 and I was town. But it was way later in the game and I was 100% sure Robz was scum.
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Guys these are our only two viable lynches today. We are close to deadline, we cannot no-lynch, and Galz's explanation actually makes a lot of sense to me. Say what you'd like to say because I plan to hammer soon.
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Guys these are our only two viable lynches today. We are close to deadline, we cannot no-lynch, and Galz's explanation actually makes a lot of sense to me. Say what you'd like to say because I plan to hammer soon.
Hold on hold on hold on please. Please let me speak first. Let me rebut Galzria. Then give me one last warning before you do, please.
Galzria, Grujah could absolutely offer the 1-1 trade if it meant I was dying first. Would anyone hold him accountable to this tomorrow? No. And he's smart enough to know I would refuse it if it meant me dying first. It proves nothing.
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Guys these are our only two viable lynches today. We are close to deadline, we cannot no-lynch, and Galz's explanation actually makes a lot of sense to me. Say what you'd like to say because I plan to hammer soon.
Can't blame you.
Robz, you are awfully sure of ashersky.. awfully sure.
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Grujah could totally offer the trade, it was never going to actually happen, no matter what. He's whacky, and he's whacky as scum or as town. This should not disqualify him from being scum.
Please someone unvote me. Do not kill me.
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I'm excited for robz's rebuttal, but in the meantime
(http://www.profilebrand.com/funny-pictures/category/animated/325_hammer-time.gif)
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Guys these are our only two viable lynches today. We are close to deadline, we cannot no-lynch, and Galz's explanation actually makes a lot of sense to me. Say what you'd like to say because I plan to hammer soon.
Can't blame you.
Robz, you are awfully sure of ashersky.. awfully sure.
Obviously I couldn't have gained any additional information yet, I just have a really big scum read on him.
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I'm excited for robz's rebuttal, but in the meantime
(http://www.profilebrand.com/funny-pictures/category/animated/325_hammer-time.gif)
I, I just did...
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Galz, Ins is right, there was pressure. I did put myself up on L-1 there.
Not sure about this confession of Robz.. I would have proceed with the deal - that's the whole point on agreeing on one. I'd find it scummy if one didn't stick to his end of the bargain. Robz admitted to lying. Does that set him free? I dont know.
Can we get vote: shraeye ? Ashersky I know has no chance of going down now. I'd actually lynch anybody cept my town lynches Galz, Volt and Cuzz.
PPE: I do not like his cry for "do not lynch me, please". Vote: Robz888
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unvote
To Robz himself: His "I won't get lynched" reeks of O's "You all won't lynch me anyway" in M-VIII where O (and Robz) were scum. Basically it came down to: To many town were inactive or thought O was just being O - asinine, but not scummy - and since he wasn't going to be bussed hard, there was no chance he would be lynched.
I've -never- understood that attitude. If you don't want to claim, that's one thing. But to act like there are enough people in the game that don't want you dead speaks towards knowing you've got people who will have your back. Robz then came out and claimed VT... Now, if he were a PR, MAYBE I could see a "I'm too important and valuable, so won't get lynched" attitude... But that's not the case here.
So I'm having a really hard time here. I hate bring wrong, though it's often inevitable. From an emotional standpoint, Robz has given me a town feel. But on actual substance I just don't draw that same conclusion.
So... I'm going to return to Vote: Robz. If I were to put a percentage on it, I would read 65% scum. But that's higher than I have on anybody else, and I'm comfortable enough with my read to keep my name on this wagon.
I rebutted the Grujah part.
For the other part, I didn't want to give away unnecessary information. Neither did Jo, I see now that's a possible interpretation of him not claiming. Saying what I am is not helpful for the town. But I don't want to die.
If I give you a town feel, then trust that I am town. Grujah's actions should not disqualify him from being mafia.
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unvote
To Robz himself: His "I won't get lynched" reeks of O's "You all won't lynch me anyway" in M-VIII where O (and Robz) were scum. Basically it came down to: To many town were inactive or thought O was just being O - asinine, but not scummy - and since he wasn't going to be bussed hard, there was no chance he would be lynched.
I've -never- understood that attitude. If you don't want to claim, that's one thing. But to act like there are enough people in the game that don't want you dead speaks towards knowing you've got people who will have your back. Robz then came out and claimed VT... Now, if he were a PR, MAYBE I could see a "I'm too important and valuable, so won't get lynched" attitude... But that's not the case here.
So I'm having a really hard time here. I hate bring wrong, though it's often inevitable. From an emotional standpoint, Robz has given me a town feel. But on actual substance I just don't draw that same conclusion.
So... I'm going to return to Vote: Robz. If I were to put a percentage on it, I would read 65% scum. But that's higher than I have on anybody else, and I'm comfortable enough with my read to keep my name on this wagon.
I rebutted the Grujah part.
For the other part, I didn't want to give away unnecessary information. Neither did Jo, I see now that's a possible interpretation of him not claiming. Saying what I am is not helpful for the town. But I don't want to die.
If I give you a town feel, then trust that I am town. Grujah's actions should not disqualify him from being mafia.
Wait, wait, wait... are you trying to go back on your VT claim now??
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@Galz no I don't understand because Grujah is at L-2. That IS pressure.
@Grujah multiple games can't recall any off the top of my head, I was the first instance of it I believe in M2 and I was town. But it was way later in the game and I was 100% sure Robz was scum.
Here's why it's not pressure:
Grujah was at L-2. Robz was at L-1 with TWO people claiming intent to hammer. The pressure wasn't on Grujah. Robz' himself has (now) confessed to having a town read on Grujah, but only being on his wagon because it's not himself. So explain to me why it made sense for Scum Grujah to come out, when intent to hammer Robz' has already been stated, and say "If he's not scum, lynch me in a 1-1 trade"? Robz' lynch was already highly likely to happen. It's not like Grujah saying that added any weight to the argument against Robz. It did 1 thing, and 1 thing only - it put his name in direct contrast to Robz. That's it. Now if Robz is lynched and flips town (something scum Grujah would KNOW is going to happen), Grujah is in deep ****. Had he simply not made the statement, Robz was STILL likely to get lynched, except then if he flipped town people would scrutinize the entire wagon (probably myself and Volt most heavily).
His actions from a scum perspective make 0 sense. None. Now, look at it from a town Grujah perspective: Ok, it's still bad play. I think we all agree with that. But I've seen SOOOO many townie's express ridiculous 100% certainty before (myself included, and you, Insomniac) - whether they're right or wrong. It's absolutely something a townie would say/do - even if they're wrong to do so.
So you have Scum = no plausibility, Town = plausibility. Grujah opening his mouth and tying himself so directly to Robz for NO reason, when he absolutely didn't have to do or say ANYTHING, only looks townie to me.
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@Galz no I don't understand because Grujah is at L-2. That IS pressure.
@Grujah multiple games can't recall any off the top of my head, I was the first instance of it I believe in M2 and I was town. But it was way later in the game and I was 100% sure Robz was scum.
Here's why it's not pressure:
Grujah was at L-2. Robz was at L-1 with TWO people claiming intent to hammer. The pressure wasn't on Grujah. Robz' himself has (now) confessed to having a town read on Grujah, but only being on his wagon because it's not himself. So explain to me why it made sense for Scum Grujah to come out, when intent to hammer Robz' has already been stated, and say "If he's not scum, lynch me in a 1-1 trade"? Robz' lynch was already highly likely to happen. It's not like Grujah saying that added any weight to the argument against Robz. It did 1 thing, and 1 thing only - it put his name in direct contrast to Robz. That's it. Now if Robz is lynched and flips town (something scum Grujah would KNOW is going to happen), Grujah is in deep ****. Had he simply not made the statement, Robz was STILL likely to get lynched, except then if he flipped town people would scrutinize the entire wagon (probably myself and Volt most heavily).
His actions from a scum perspective make 0 sense. None. Now, look at it from a town Grujah perspective: Ok, it's still bad play. I think we all agree with that. But I've seen SOOOO many townie's express ridiculous 100% certainty before (myself included, and you, Insomniac) - whether they're right or wrong. It's absolutely something a townie would say/do - even if they're wrong to do so.
So you have Scum = no plausibility, Town = plausibility. Grujah opening his mouth and tying himself so directly to Robz for NO reason, when he absolutely didn't have to do or say ANYTHING, only looks townie to me.
Because if Robz is town we absolutely won't lynch Grujah tomorrow.
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Exactly what Insomniac said, this is where Galzria's arugment falls apart. GRUJAH WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN HED RESPONSIBLE IF I FLIP TOWN. (Nor should he!!!!!!!!!!)
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About pressure:
I genreally knew that Robz is way mroe likely to go down than me, esp with people announcing the hammer, I wasn't feeling too pressured (a little, maybe) at the time when it was 6-5, before any of these things.
Only pressure on me was when I voted for myself and L-1-ed myself, Cuzz or somebody else could have found my action extra scummy as Ins apparently did (though, Ins is my prime scum guy) - I was worried at that time. Other than that it was a gambit, to see Robz reaction and so.
I would have stuck if he agreed to stick too, but he obviously wouldn't.
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Grujah could totally offer the trade, it was never going to actually happen, no matter what. He's whacky, and he's whacky as scum or as town. This should not disqualify him from being scum.
Please someone unvote me. Do not kill me.
This is the rebuttal?
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ALSO galz when Grujah offered it one person said they would hammer Robz if no other lynch happened before deadline (Eevee), now that the deal has gone away Cuzz expressed the intent to hammer but there was only one person who had mentioned hammering Robz and it wasn't an offer.
AND I already said myself that I was the first person who offered such a trade in M2, and it was bad there too. AND Grujah admitted that he was feeling pressure when he made the offer.
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@Galz no I don't understand because Grujah is at L-2. That IS pressure.
@Grujah multiple games can't recall any off the top of my head, I was the first instance of it I believe in M2 and I was town. But it was way later in the game and I was 100% sure Robz was scum.
Here's why it's not pressure:
Grujah was at L-2. Robz was at L-1 with TWO people claiming intent to hammer. The pressure wasn't on Grujah. Robz' himself has (now) confessed to having a town read on Grujah, but only being on his wagon because it's not himself. So explain to me why it made sense for Scum Grujah to come out, when intent to hammer Robz' has already been stated, and say "If he's not scum, lynch me in a 1-1 trade"? Robz' lynch was already highly likely to happen. It's not like Grujah saying that added any weight to the argument against Robz. It did 1 thing, and 1 thing only - it put his name in direct contrast to Robz. That's it. Now if Robz is lynched and flips town (something scum Grujah would KNOW is going to happen), Grujah is in deep ****. Had he simply not made the statement, Robz was STILL likely to get lynched, except then if he flipped town people would scrutinize the entire wagon (probably myself and Volt most heavily).
His actions from a scum perspective make 0 sense. None. Now, look at it from a town Grujah perspective: Ok, it's still bad play. I think we all agree with that. But I've seen SOOOO many townie's express ridiculous 100% certainty before (myself included, and you, Insomniac) - whether they're right or wrong. It's absolutely something a townie would say/do - even if they're wrong to do so.
So you have Scum = no plausibility, Town = plausibility. Grujah opening his mouth and tying himself so directly to Robz for NO reason, when he absolutely didn't have to do or say ANYTHING, only looks townie to me.
Because if Robz is town we absolutely won't lynch Grujah tomorrow.
You're missing the point entirely.
Whether we do or not is irrelevant. The point is that Grujah put his name out there - specifically HIS name - and tied it to a lynch that was likely to happen anyway. Why? You won't answer that question (which I asked last time). There WAS plausibility for town Grujah to make that statement, and NONE for scum Grujah to. None at all.
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When I voted for myself, cuz anybody could have read me as scum and hammered.* (correction, on Ins).
Only mild pressure on L-2, when I made the deal.
no love for shareye , nobody?
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Frisk my rebuttals litter the previous two pages. I'm going a little crazy here, sorry.
Cuzz, you aren't hammering yet are you? Please give advance notice. Or have I convinced you? Grujah is a better lynch, really.
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Unvote
I agree with Galzria. Grujah wouldn't do that if he was scum. I don't know, I'm super torn about Robz, and don't particularly want to vote for anyone else because it might trigger a nolynch.
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@Galz no I don't understand because Grujah is at L-2. That IS pressure.
@Grujah multiple games can't recall any off the top of my head, I was the first instance of it I believe in M2 and I was town. But it was way later in the game and I was 100% sure Robz was scum.
Here's why it's not pressure:
Grujah was at L-2. Robz was at L-1 with TWO people claiming intent to hammer. The pressure wasn't on Grujah. Robz' himself has (now) confessed to having a town read on Grujah, but only being on his wagon because it's not himself. So explain to me why it made sense for Scum Grujah to come out, when intent to hammer Robz' has already been stated, and say "If he's not scum, lynch me in a 1-1 trade"? Robz' lynch was already highly likely to happen. It's not like Grujah saying that added any weight to the argument against Robz. It did 1 thing, and 1 thing only - it put his name in direct contrast to Robz. That's it. Now if Robz is lynched and flips town (something scum Grujah would KNOW is going to happen), Grujah is in deep ****. Had he simply not made the statement, Robz was STILL likely to get lynched, except then if he flipped town people would scrutinize the entire wagon (probably myself and Volt most heavily).
His actions from a scum perspective make 0 sense. None. Now, look at it from a town Grujah perspective: Ok, it's still bad play. I think we all agree with that. But I've seen SOOOO many townie's express ridiculous 100% certainty before (myself included, and you, Insomniac) - whether they're right or wrong. It's absolutely something a townie would say/do - even if they're wrong to do so.
So you have Scum = no plausibility, Town = plausibility. Grujah opening his mouth and tying himself so directly to Robz for NO reason, when he absolutely didn't have to do or say ANYTHING, only looks townie to me.
Because if Robz is town we absolutely won't lynch Grujah tomorrow.
You're missing the point entirely.
Whether we do or not is irrelevant. The point is that Grujah put his name out there - specifically HIS name - and tied it to a lynch that was likely to happen anyway. Why? You won't answer that question (which I asked last time). There WAS plausibility for town Grujah to make that statement, and NONE for scum Grujah to. None at all.
...I keep answering it...Grujah was under pressure and scum Grujah can gain town cred for doing it and knows for sure we won't lynch him tomorrow. Are you reading my replies? For that matter are you reading this game even?
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The problem with a shraeye lynch is that he hasn't been anywhere on the forums and even announced a VLA + he could be a power role.
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When I voted for myself, cuz anybody could have read me as scum and hammered.* (correction, on Ins).
Only mild pressure on L-2, when I made the deal.
no love for shareye , nobody?
The problem with shraeye is that he's away this week. Also, it seems impossible to lynch anyone but who we've got here. Although if 7 people say right now "Shraeye!" I'm in.
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Insomniac, I think you are wrong and Galzria is right. Fwiw.
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ALSO galz when Grujah offered it one person said they would hammer Robz if no other lynch happened before deadline (Eevee), now that the deal has gone away Cuzz expressed the intent to hammer but there was only one person who had mentioned hammering Robz and it wasn't an offer.
AND I already said myself that I was the first person who offered such a trade in M2, and it was bad there too. AND Grujah admitted that he was feeling pressure when he made the offer.
You should check your facts again Insomniac.
Robz, fwiw I will hammer you just before the deadline if nolynch is the alternative. I don't like archetype lynch.
can we make a shraeye lynch happen?
shraeye is rapidly climbing up my suspicion list with his silence at this crucial juncture in the game. I will absolutely hammer Robz before my class at 2:30 if we are headed to no-lynch, but for now I'll Vote: shraeye and see who joins me.
But yeah, he is awfully quite for his usual monster-posts [shareye, that is]. We're not gonna get a new lynch in 3 hours. Should be put under scrutiny tomorrow - and hard.
I am kinda confident that Robz will turn scum actually. I'd be willing to trade 1-1 with him, if he agrees to such terms (i.e. we lynch one and other ones self-votes tomorrow).
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Unvote
I agree with Galzria. Grujah wouldn't do that if he was scum. I don't know, I'm super torn about Robz, and don't particularly want to vote for anyone else because it might trigger a nolynch.
I keep answering this, and so does Insomniac. He absolutely could do that if he was scum; he will never be held accountable for it.
Here, I'll do it. If we lynch Grujah now and he's not scum, you can kill me tomorrow. I promise, I pledge, whatever.
It won't happen.
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I'm too lazy to setup, but the thing is with shraeye we are hitting a power role as often if not more often than we are scum. At least with Robz we won't have that problem.
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It doesn't matter if there was pressure against him or not! It's an easy thing to say; it will never be upheld.
Could we kill someone at random who's not here and is not Grujah or me? Would that work? Shraeye or whatever.
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Ok Galz so 2 people expressed that they were going to hammer Robz IF WE HIT DEADLINE. Not because they wanted a Robz lynch but because they don't want no lynch.
@Eevee: Thats fine you always think I'm wrong and yet somehow I end up being right a good portion of the time, you should probably go look at how often I lynch town vs how often I lynch scum. I'm no PPS but.
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Ugh, I AM A TOWN POWER ROLE.
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Frisk my rebuttals litter the previous two pages. I'm going a little crazy here, sorry.
Cuzz, you aren't hammering yet are you? Please give advance notice. Or have I convinced you? Grujah is a better lynch, really.
You have certainly not convinced me that you're not scum, no. I agree with Galz, but first I want you to answer my question. Are you still claiming VT? You said some very cryptic stuff here:
For the other part, I didn't want to give away unnecessary information. Neither did Jo, I see now that's a possible interpretation of him not claiming. Saying what I am is not helpful for the town. But I don't want to die.
that I don't know if I'm misinterpreting.
PPE: not misinterpreting
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Ugh, I AM A TOWN POWER ROLE.
FWIW saw this coming.
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Chicken vote: Robz
Chicken vote: Robz
Chicken vote: Robz
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Ugh, I AM A TOWN POWER ROLE.
You claimed VT before, didn't you?
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Ugh, I AM A TOWN POWER ROLE.
Robz, fwiw I will hammer you just before the deadline if nolynch is the alternative. I don't like archetype lynch.
All right RobZ - that's an intent to hammer.
I am a Vanilla Townie.
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Chicken unvote
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Yes, I lied about being a VT. There is no Doctor in this game. I really, really wasn't going to claim until I was certain I was going to be dead.
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Vote: ashersky
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I'm too lazy to setup, but the thing is with shraeye we are hitting a power role as often if not more often than we are scum. At least with Robz we won't have that problem.
It's an hour to deadline and you're too lazy to read setup????
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I'm too lazy to setup, but the thing is with shraeye we are hitting a power role as often if not more often than we are scum. At least with Robz we won't have that problem.
It's an hour to deadline and you're too lazy to read setup????
Not particularly relevant to my argument. :)
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I tried to get people into list in order of scumminess, but I couldn't. I just know that Galz Volt and Cuzz are towny, Arch is least scummy of non-town reads, Ins is way most scummy (him arguing with Galz about me is just what I expect Ins scum to do - generally neutralish stuff that give him some points and do not trigger lurk alarm). Others in between. Case I die tonight.
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.. which just died because now Robz might be a PR too.
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Chicken Vote: ashersky
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Chicken vote: Robz
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So - the idea is we let him live and then he has to claim first thing tomorrow?
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Earlier, I thought Frisk had hammered and I said: "Galzria and Volt should have known."
What I meant was that Galzria and Volt (especially Galzria) know how I play when I am a concealed town PR. Frisk, too. The fact that I had all 3 of their votes virtually all day is extremely, extremely scummy.
Though there was no point telling you all that until you knew I was a PR.
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So - the idea is we let him live and then he has to claim first thing tomorrow?
I think that's best, yes. I also don't like Grujah lynch and hate nolynch. Time to get busy.
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Vote: ashersky
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So, if he's scum: then we end up lynching someone else + he draws a counter claim tomorrow?
If he's town - he ends up getting killed tonight anyway - or tomorrow night after he claims?
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Ashersky? Hmmm.. I can stand behind that but....
Somebody yells PR after lieing about VT (and dozens of minutes before that conveniently said he'd do anything to survive) . Yes, he could be PR, and mentioned comment could be read as PR saying it, but he could be trying to cling to strings?
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List of people I find suspicious based on new evidence from most to least
Vote: Galzria you haven't been listening to my arguments and I picked up that I thought Robz was a power role RL days ago
Eevee - This jumped up a lot when Eevee agreed with Galz and not me because Galz's argument isn't that good.
Grujah
Ashersky
Jotheonah
Archetype
yuma
Cuzz
Shraeye
Captain_Frisk
Voltgloss
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I don't know what to do here. Aren't we supposed to lynch all liars? Would scum Robz admit that he lied about being VT as a desperate gambit?
I am so confused.
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Vote: Galzria
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Chicken Vote: Captain_Frisk
Chicken.
Chicken Unvote
Chicken Vote: ashersky
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Ashersky? Hmmm.. I can stand behind that but....
Somebody yells PR after lieing about VT (and dozens of minutes before that conveniently said he'd do anything to survive) . Yes, he could be PR, and mentioned comment could be read as PR saying it, but he could be trying to cling to strings?
We told people to claim VT as a power role in this game...
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Yeah, now that I think about it for a second, everything Galzria just did was posturing for my flip. "Oh, I feel like Robz is town but Grujah can't be scum (wrong, by the way), what to do, oh lesser of two evils, woe is me..."
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So, if he's scum: then we end up lynching someone else + he draws a counter claim tomorrow?
If he's town - he ends up getting killed tonight anyway - or tomorrow night after he claims?
Well, I guess we can gain info from nightactions tomorrow. but its a forced claim.. and force claims, especially 2 hours till deadline, are bad claims.
I have a bad feeling he might be telling the truth (more likely than not, acually), but kinda still warmed up to his lynch more cuz I don;t want to let people go on fast lynches after very late claims.
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Chicken Vote: Cuzz
Chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken Unvote
Chicken Vote: ashersky
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Ashersky? Hmmm.. I can stand behind that but....
Somebody yells PR after lieing about VT (and dozens of minutes before that conveniently said he'd do anything to survive) . Yes, he could be PR, and mentioned comment could be read as PR saying it, but he could be trying to cling to strings?
We told people to claim VT as a power role in this game...
I remmeber many plans but I kinda forgot this one. O.o
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Chicken vote: Robz
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So, if he's scum: then we end up lynching someone else + he draws a counter claim tomorrow?
If he's town - he ends up getting killed tonight anyway - or tomorrow night after he claims?
Well, I guess we can gain info from nightactions tomorrow. but its a forced claim.. and force claims, especially 2 hours till deadline, are bad claims.
I have a bad feeling he might be telling the truth (more likely than not, acually), but kinda still warmed up to his lynch more cuz I don;t want to let people go on fast lynches after very late claims.
My GOD your scummy this game. I'm your biggest scum read and yet I'm fighting with everyone, while you offer a 1-1 trade which would never happen to gain town cred, AND want to lynch a claimed PR, you just don't lynch claimed PR's ever its not ok.
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ITT we have Insomniac suspecting the people who disagree with him, big gasp!
Grujah, you are alone with your opinion on forced claims.
I could get behind a Galz lynch, if ashersky doesn't get enough support?
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Worst thing about a quick lynch like this (and nobody can tell me that it's a good thing) is that scum can easily sneak a vote in without worrying.
How much is ashersky at?
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ITT we have Insomniac suspecting the people who disagree with him, big gasp!
Grujah, you are alone with your opinion on forced claims.
I could get behind a Galz lynch, if ashersky doesn't get enough support?
I thought you had agreed with Galz? You think he's scum now?
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Actually, whenever jo votes repeatedly like this many times, he is wrong. So that gives me a hint.
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Vote Count 1.16:
Robz888 (5): ashersky, Captain_Frisk, jotheonah, Galzria, Grujah
Grujah (2): yuma, Archetype
shraeye (1): Cuzz
ashersky (2): Eevee, Voltgloss
Galzria (2): Insomniac, Robz888
Not voting (1): shraeye
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Currently Cursed: Voltgloss, jotheonah
Curse deadline: Tuesday Oct 23, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
Lynch deadline: Tuesday Oct 23, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
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Vote: Robz
A) He lied
B) He points out that there is not Doctor, so he can't be saved, but doesn't bother to claim which PR, thus cant be counterclaimed, leading to..
C) He doesn't get lynched, lives through tonight, claims tomorrow, draws a counterclaim, and gets todays Townie lynched PLUs tomorrow's PR lynched, before the town ever comes back to go "Oh no! We should've just lynched all liars!" back at A).
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I did everything, everything, everything I could to get away with unknown or VT claim, because that's the best case scenario. Add in that I'm heavily suspected, and I have good odds to survive Night 1.
But this damned deadline, and the fact that so many people aren't here. Although now it's clear they were here, just hiding and making it look like Grujah vs. me were the only options. (I'm looking at Voltgloss here.)
If I don't make it, I'm fairly convinced Grujah is town, and Eevee. And now that I just went through it, I think Jo's reaction to pressure is exactly what mine was, and I know I'm town, so fine, he looks better.
Cuzz really wasn't letting me get away with my claim. He should be punished for that.
Scum: Galzria, ashersky, maybe Voltgloss, maybe Frisk, maybe Cuzz
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ITT we have Insomniac suspecting the people who disagree with him, big gasp!
Grujah, you are alone with your opinion on forced claims.
I could get behind a Galz lynch, if ashersky doesn't get enough support?
Hmm? Frisk suspects me and he's damn near the bottom of my list. Neither you nor Galz have expressed a suspicion of me and I put you two as top, Grujah definetly did but guess who's super scummy this game? Grujah (and he's not even my number one scum read after everything thats gone down).
And have you reviewed my games yet to find out how often I lynch town as town and scum as town?
Vote: Robz
A) He lied
B) He points out that there is not Doctor, so he can't be saved, but doesn't bother to claim which PR, thus cant be counterclaimed, leading to..
C) He doesn't get lynched, lives through tonight, claims tomorrow, draws a counterclaim, and gets todays Townie lynched PLUs tomorrow's PR lynched, before the town ever comes back to go "Oh no! We should've just lynched all liars!" back at A).
HOLY EFF GALZ. At the beginning of the day we said that people claim VT/power role as power role not which power role they are.
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I agreed with Galzria on his spat with Insomniac (in that you are probaby town). I think his arguments made more sense there. Unlike Insomniac, I don't base my scum reads on whether people agree with me or not. :) Why couldn't Galzria have better arguments than Insomniac on that particular matter and still be scum?
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Ashersky? Hmmm.. I can stand behind that but....
Somebody yells PR after lieing about VT (and dozens of minutes before that conveniently said he'd do anything to survive) . Yes, he could be PR, and mentioned comment could be read as PR saying it, but he could be trying to cling to strings?
We told people to claim VT as a power role in this game...
When did we say this?
I only see Volt's plan of generic role claim. He just broke it, didn't he? (by claiming VT).
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I agreed with Galzria on his spat with Insomniac (in that you are probaby town). I think his arguments made more sense there. Unlike Insomniac, I don't base my scum reads on whether people agree with me or not. :) Why couldn't Galzria have better arguments than Insomniac on that particular matter and still be scum?
I don't either, I never have and your misunderstanding my meta if you think thats the case.
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Grujah definetly did but guess who's super scummy this game? Grujah (and he's not even my number one scum read after everything thats gone down).
Fast! Who is?
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HOLY EFF GALZ. At the beginning of the day we said that people claim VT/power role as power role not which power role they are.
Also, you went from "claim VT" to "claim VT/generic PR" which is a completely differnt thing. I remember Generic PR plan with made some sense.
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I agreed with Galzria on his spat with Insomniac (in that you are probaby town). I think his arguments made more sense there. Unlike Insomniac, I don't base my scum reads on whether people agree with me or not. :) Why couldn't Galzria have better arguments than Insomniac on that particular matter and still be scum?
I don't either, I never have and your misunderstanding my meta if you think thats the case.
Fine, that is possible. Point stands, I resonate with what Galzria said about Grujah, but still think he is an ok lynch target cause hey, scum can make good arguments too. Sorry if I was too harsh to you, your post just made it seem like you suspect Galz the most because he disagreed with you re:Grujah, and me the 2nd most because I agreed with Galzria not you "even though his argument wasn't good".
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HOLY EFF GALZ. At the beginning of the day we said that people claim VT/power role as power role not which power role they are.
Also, you went from "claim VT" to "claim VT/generic PR" which is a completely differnt thing. I remember Generic PR plan with made some sense.
Protecting buddy?
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Vote: Robz
A) He lied
B) He points out that there is not Doctor, so he can't be saved, but doesn't bother to claim which PR, thus cant be counterclaimed, leading to..
C) He doesn't get lynched, lives through tonight, claims tomorrow, draws a counterclaim, and gets todays Townie lynched PLUs tomorrow's PR lynched, before the town ever comes back to go "Oh no! We should've just lynched all liars!" back at A).
A) It was absolutely the right thing to do. I would lie again in a heartbeat. You would too, in my position.
B) The fact that there is no Doctor is the reason we need to be much more careful about claiming, because the WIFOM is solved for scum.
C) Depends what the claim is.
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Chicken vote: Robz Chicken vote: Robz Chicken vote: Robz Chicken vote: Robz Chicken vote: Robz Chicken vote: Robz
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I would hate to be a chicken at a time like this. ONE HOUR LEFT EVERYONE!
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Also with this last replies Eevee went up in scummyness.
Currently, my #1 goal now is stand with Galz on lynch all liars thing. If we can't even do THAT policy right, we suck.
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HOLY EFF GALZ. At the beginning of the day we said that people claim VT/power role as power role not which power role they are.
Also, you went from "claim VT" to "claim VT/generic PR" which is a completely differnt thing. I remember Generic PR plan with made some sense.
Protecting buddy?
On day 1? Thats suicide, I don't protect I bus hard remember? You hated me for it.
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Also with this last replies Eevee went up in scummyness.
Currently, my #1 goal now is stand with Galz on lynch all liars thing. If we can't even do THAT policy right, we suck.
Policy lynch's suck.
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If Robz claimed generic PR right away, and he survived, he would have died probably tomorrow if we belelieved counterclaim more. But now he was at brink and treid to save himself. More I think, more likely the case than real claim.
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Also with this last replies Eevee went up in scummyness.
Currently, my #1 goal now is stand with Galz on lynch all liars thing. If we can't even do THAT policy right, we suck.
We have no doctor. We already established power roles maybe shouldn't outright claim because that's a certain death in this setup. Now, maybe we should still lynch Robz, but it certainly is more complicated than "lynch all liars end of story".
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HOLY EFF GALZ. At the beginning of the day we said that people claim VT/power role as power role not which power role they are.
Also, you went from "claim VT" to "claim VT/generic PR" which is a completely differnt thing. I remember Generic PR plan with made some sense.
Protecting buddy?
On day 1? Thats suicide, I don't protect I bus hard remember? You hated me for it.
Yeah, and you're gonna play the same again everytime?
Also, Robz at least one fakeclaim and also that thing that "Volt and Galz should know this is town Robz, because that is the way I INTENDED TO PLAY THIS TIME" make it a lynch that I like, actually.
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Also with this last replies Eevee went up in scummyness.
Currently, my #1 goal now is stand with Galz on lynch all liars thing. If we can't even do THAT policy right, we suck.
We have no doctor. We already established power roles maybe shouldn't outright claim because that's a certain death in this setup. Now, maybe we should still lynch Robz, but it certainly is more complicated than "lynch all liars end of story".
We had a generic PR plan, didn't we?
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13 players --> 3 scum 3/13=.23 lets round to .25 means that each scum has to do a 4 for 1 trade in a 13 player game. So Robz EVEN if he 2 for 1's us claiming scum is horrible.
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Also with this last replies Eevee went up in scummyness.
Currently, my #1 goal now is stand with Galz on lynch all liars thing. If we can't even do THAT policy right, we suck.
We have no doctor. We already established power roles maybe shouldn't outright claim because that's a certain death in this setup. Now, maybe we should still lynch Robz, but it certainly is more complicated than "lynch all liars end of story".
ANd if you guys didn't pressure claim we wouldn't have these situations.
And why would he do it, 1 HOUR BEFORE DEADLINE?
He should have sucked it up or PR claimed sooner.
This way he triggers a quicklynch or nolynch.
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I mean, Robz, do you really like your skin that much that you are willing to drive a town in nolynch or quickbadlynch at time like this?
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I think his explanation of trying to make the lynch go away until it looked near-certain makes sense. I'm not positive Robz is town, but lynching power roles kind of sucks.
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I also know this is a hectic town Robz under pressure, not calulcated scum robz under pressure, but he already announced that he was going to play hectic town Robz.
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I mean, Robz, do you really like your skin that much that you are willing to drive a town in nolynch or quickbadlynch at time like this?
...Power roles should never be lynched.
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I think his explanation of trying to make the lynch go away until it looked near-certain makes sense. I'm not positive Robz is town, but lynching power roles kind of sucks.
You are one of the most noisy "anti no-lynch" advocates (after Volt). What happened to that?
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Also with this last replies Eevee went up in scummyness.
Currently, my #1 goal now is stand with Galz on lynch all liars thing. If we can't even do THAT policy right, we suck.
We have no doctor. We already established power roles maybe shouldn't outright claim because that's a certain death in this setup. Now, maybe we should still lynch Robz, but it certainly is more complicated than "lynch all liars end of story".
ANd if you guys didn't pressure claim we wouldn't have these situations.
And why would he do it, 1 HOUR BEFORE DEADLINE?
He should have sucked it up or PR claimed sooner.
This way he triggers a quicklynch or nolynch.
I waited as long as possible because I did not think I would be lynched, as I said. The reason? The case against me was stupid. It was, I'm sorry. Galzria got on me early, and oops! Has to be me or Grujah now, sorry, can't change, blah blah. So too Frisk and Volt, super suspicious in my view. So no, I didn't think I would actually get lynched. When it became clear to me that everyone was going to vote for me or Grujah, and when it became clear to even me that Grujah looked pretty townish, and Cuzz and Eevee both ecpressed intent to hammer me... I true claimed. I took every last step to avoid this.
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I think his explanation of trying to make the lynch go away until it looked near-certain makes sense. I'm not positive Robz is town, but lynching power roles kind of sucks.
It was near certain when you annoucned hammer too, but he didn't claim than. He waited until we fall apart.
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I think his explanation of trying to make the lynch go away until it looked near-certain makes sense. I'm not positive Robz is town, but lynching power roles kind of sucks.
It was near certain when you annoucned hammer too, but he didn't claim than. He waited until we fall apart.
I still had time to convince you all. I'm fairly persuasive.
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If you are to do PR claim and expect that town should go to somebody else, you MUST do it in a reasonable time frame. Even 3 hours ago wasn't reasonable.
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Can I interest anyone in an Insomniac lynch? This town is ridiculous, I'll bite the bullet for a PR
Vote: Insomniac
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I think his explanation of trying to make the lynch go away until it looked near-certain makes sense. I'm not positive Robz is town, but lynching power roles kind of sucks.
It was near certain when you annoucned hammer too, but he didn't claim than. He waited until we fall apart.
I still had time to convince you all. I'm fairly persuasive.
If you think that is a good town play, you are not really bright and it is not good town play.
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I think his explanation of trying to make the lynch go away until it looked near-certain makes sense. I'm not positive Robz is town, but lynching power roles kind of sucks.
You are one of the most noisy "anti no-lynch" advocates (after Volt). What happened to that?
I'm trying to create an alternative wagon, I absolutely do not like a nolynch. I'm unsure whether I like Robz lynch better than nolynch atm, need to think about it. Still, I would love it if ANYONE but you, me or Robz got a wagon rolling. Seems to be a lot of people online so don't know why that isn't happening.
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If Robz claimed generic PR right away, and he survived, he would have died probably tomorrow if we belelieved counterclaim more. But now he was at brink and treid to save himself. More I think, more likely the case than real claim.
This is starting to feel like Grujah knows Robz is telling the truth and is trying to get us to lynch an actual PR. I really don't like Robz's assertion that town should lie in his situation but that doesn't necessarily mean he's lying (about the PR thing. certainly he was lying about being VT). I guess I could kinda see town Robz doing this? If we make him claim tomorrow we'll know for sure then anyway.
We are headed to no-lynch people, let's get on it. I bought Galz's argument about Grujah originally, but Insomniac makes sense too, and we don't have much time to argue.
Vote: Grujah
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I think his explanation of trying to make the lynch go away until it looked near-certain makes sense. I'm not positive Robz is town, but lynching power roles kind of sucks.
It was near certain when you annoucned hammer too, but he didn't claim than. He waited until we fall apart.
I didn't say I want to hammer him. I said I'd be willing to do it at the last minute to avoid a nolynch.
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Can I interest anyone in an Insomniac lynch? This town is ridiculous, I'll bite the bullet for a PR
Vote: Insomniac
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Galzria has not responded to me yet. He voted me, argued with Insomniac and me, and disappeared once I claimed.
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Can I interest anyone in an Insomniac lynch? This town is ridiculous, I'll bite the bullet for a PR
Vote: Insomniac
For a scum PR, you mean?
I actually like that lynch, and you know that I do. And you are trying something now, and I don't know what.
Vote: Insomniac
(also, most selfvotes D1 FTW).
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I urge a vote for Galzria.
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Cuzz wagon anyone? Unless I'm misreading the vibe around the town, voting for Grujah at this time is contributing to nolynch to the fullest.
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Vote: Galzria
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Galzria. It's Galzria. He should have seen this coming.
Insomniac is almost obvtown. Please don't vote for yourself, though.
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Chicken.
Vote:
Robz.
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Cuzz wagon anyone? Unless I'm misreading the vibe around the town, voting for Grujah at this time is contributing to nolynch to the fullest.
Maybe I missed something? I thought Grujah still had most votes after Robz.
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Can I interest anyone in an Insomniac lynch? This town is ridiculous, I'll bite the bullet for a PR
Vote: Insomniac
For a scum PR, you mean?
I actually like that lynch, and you know that I do. And you are trying something now, and I don't know what.
Vote: Insomniac
(also, most selfvotes D1 FTW).
No I definetly mean a town PR. and when I flip town, I'd like people to sheep my reads of
Galz>Eevee>Grujah>Ashersky>Jo>Archetype>yuma>Cuzz>Shraeye>Captain_Frisk>Voltgloss
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Can I interest anyone in an Insomniac lynch? This town is ridiculous, I'll bite the bullet for a PR
Vote: Insomniac
For a scum PR, you mean?
I actually like that lynch, and you know that I do. And you are trying something now, and I don't know what.
Vote: Insomniac
(also, most selfvotes D1 FTW).
No I definetly mean a town PR. and when I flip town, I'd like people to sheep my reads of
Galz>Eevee>Grujah>Ashersky>Jo>Archetype>yuma>Cuzz>Shraeye>Captain_Frisk>Voltgloss
Why no Robz on that list? Cuz you're going to kill him tonight?
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No Lynchville -- Population: Mafia XIV
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Can I interest anyone in an Insomniac lynch? This town is ridiculous, I'll bite the bullet for a PR
Vote: Insomniac
For a scum PR, you mean?
I actually like that lynch, and you know that I do. And you are trying something now, and I don't know what.
Vote: Insomniac
(also, most selfvotes D1 FTW).
No I definetly mean a town PR. and when I flip town, I'd like people to sheep my reads of
Galz>Eevee>Grujah>Ashersky>Jo>Archetype>yuma>Cuzz>Shraeye>Captain_Frisk>Voltgloss
Also, you seem sure he is town PR? CUz you know cuz you're scum?
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Hey Scum - RobZ bussed me on day 1 previously. He thinks its fine play. Just hammer him.
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Chicken Vote: Voltgloss
Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken Unvote
Chicken Vote: jotheonah
Chicken.
Chicken Unvote
Chicken Vote: Robz888
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Can I interest anyone in an Insomniac lynch? This town is ridiculous, I'll bite the bullet for a PR
Vote: Insomniac
For a scum PR, you mean?
I actually like that lynch, and you know that I do. And you are trying something now, and I don't know what.
Vote: Insomniac
(also, most selfvotes D1 FTW).
No I definetly mean a town PR. and when I flip town, I'd like people to sheep my reads of
Galz>Eevee>Grujah>Ashersky>Jo>Archetype>yuma>Cuzz>Shraeye>Captain_Frisk>Voltgloss
Why no Robz on that list? Cuz you're going to kill him tonight?
He's a town PR, that makes him the least scummy >Voltgolss>Robz
Comon guys this Insomniac lynch is the real deal.
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No Lynchville -- Population: Mafia XIV
Actually, MVIII (first one I hosted) also populates that town (with 3 occupants even, I think).
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Can I interest anyone in an Insomniac lynch? This town is ridiculous, I'll bite the bullet for a PR
Vote: Insomniac
For a scum PR, you mean?
I actually like that lynch, and you know that I do. And you are trying something now, and I don't know what.
Vote: Insomniac
(also, most selfvotes D1 FTW).
No I definetly mean a town PR. and when I flip town, I'd like people to sheep my reads of
Galz>Eevee>Grujah>Ashersky>Jo>Archetype>yuma>Cuzz>Shraeye>Captain_Frisk>Voltgloss
Why no Robz on that list? Cuz you're going to kill him tonight?
This is so inconsistent with what Grujah has said about me 30 seconds ago that it is almost a scumslip.
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Vote: Robz888
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I think his explanation of trying to make the lynch go away until it looked near-certain makes sense. I'm not positive Robz is town, but lynching power roles kind of sucks.
FWIW, I -never- believe PR claims, dating all the way back to M-III, when I got lynched because I called Joth's PR claim an obvscum fake and people prosecuted me for pushing a lynch on a claimed PR.
Of course, I was town and Joth was scum, but that's irrelevant.
Robz is wrong that I would've lied. I would ask him to point back to a single game where I've ever fake-claimed, or lied about what I actually was in ANY facet. I was lynched as VT in M-III. Lynched as VT in M-IV. Not lynched as a claimed WOSV in M-VI. Lynched as a VT in M-VII. Not lynched as a VT in M-VIII. NK'd as a One-Way-Lover in M-IX (late in the game, getting myself intentionally NK'd to leave ABirds alive). NK'd as VT in M-XI. Didn't fake-claim in ZM-1, or M-II as scum (would've claimed VT in both though).
So no, I would not "do the same thing in his position". I would refuse to claim, but once intent to hammer came out, I would've claimed truthfully. Especially at/near deadline, so that we had time to actually move our votes around to somebody different. I certainly would NOT have dragged it out until deadline-1hour, then claimed "Oh wait, I lied, I'm actually a PR!", pushing the entire town into quick/no lynch territory. I think it's absolutely a scum power play for a no-lynch or bad lynch. If it IS town play, it's very poorly done town play because he gave us very little to no time at all to readjust. So quite simply, I won't.
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what is 20 chickens, again?
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Post-Post-Edit: 26 new replies. Hah!
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Galzria, I mean that in this game, if you had a power role, you would lie about it.
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Galzria, I mean that in this game, if you had a power role, you would lie about it.
Because it's the correct move.
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Guys what do I have to do to get my wagon off the ground?
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Also, Ins/Eevee/Robz - why did Robz claim VT at all, if he, as he said, "though he wasn't going to get lynched" ?
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Will everyone who disbelieves me go back to Frisk's fake hammer? The bold one? Isn't it clear I thought that was the real hammer, and my reaction sort of gives it away that I'm a PR?
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Does anyone know what the current vote count is?
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Vote Count 1.17:
Robz888 (6): ashersky, Captain_Frisk, jotheonah, Galzria, Voltgloss, Grujah
Grujah (3): yuma, Archetype, Cuzz
Galzria (2): Robz888, Eevee
Insomniac (1): Insomniac
Not voting (1): shraeye
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Currently Cursed: Voltgloss, jotheonah
Curse deadline: Tuesday Oct 23, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
Lynch deadline: Tuesday Oct 23, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
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Will everyone who disbelieves me go back to Frisk's fake hammer? The bold one? Isn't it clear I thought that was the real hammer, and my reaction sort of gives it away that I'm a PR?
Please - you have continued to troll town every time you've been lynched - right?
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Please make sure your vote is in the correct place.
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Guys what do I have to do to get my wagon off the ground?
And why are you doing similar stuff that you want against me for doing?
@Robz - to me it seems angry, whether scum or PR. Maybe even fake?
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Will everyone who disbelieves me go back to Frisk's fake hammer? The bold one? Isn't it clear I thought that was the real hammer, and my reaction sort of gives it away that I'm a PR?
Please - you have continued to troll town every time you've been lynched - right?
Yeah, and it's hurting me now.
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Will everyone who disbelieves me go back to Frisk's fake hammer? The bold one? Isn't it clear I thought that was the real hammer, and my reaction sort of gives it away that I'm a PR?
Please - you have continued to troll town every time you've been lynched - right?
O yeah, this too, you trolled many times, so did I.
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Chicken Vote: Captain_Frisk
Chicken.
Chicken Unvote
Chicken Vote: Robz888
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Vote Count 1.17:
Robz888 (6): ashersky, Captain_Frisk, jotheonah, Galzria, Voltgloss, Grujah
Grujah (3): yuma, Archetype, Cuzz
Galzria (2): Robz888, Eevee
Insomniac (1): Insomniac
Not voting (1): shraeye
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Looks like a No Lynch to me. It's 6 for me, 6 for someone else.
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In case I die at night, Grujah is easily my strongest townread atm. Do not forget that! I think this last hour flailing has largely been town on town action, interpret what you will from that.
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Chicken Vote: Captain_Frisk
Chicken.
Chicken Unvote
Chicken Vote: Robz888
20 chcikens is error, right?
Once chicken if yes.
Than, once chicken if error in judgment, two times in error in chickiening.
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Also, people, yuma is doing his invisible thingy again!!
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In case I die at night--and I will--please look for scum on my wagon. The people on my wagon are too smart to actually want to kill me, unless they are scum. I highly suspect Galzria.
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In case I die at night--and I will--please look for scum on my wagon. The people on my wagon are too smart to actually want to kill me, unless they are scum. I highly suspect Galzria.
What's your defense tomorrow going to be when your scummates don't kill you?
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Chicken Vote: Cuzz
Chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken Unvote
Chicken Vote: Robz888
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Don't lynch Robz you idiots he's a town PR. lynch Insomniac
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Don't lynch Robz you idiots he's a town PR. lynch Insomniac
So then you are early claiming VT?
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Don't lynch Robz you idiots he's a town PR. lynch Insomniac
I'm not one to advocate policy lynches but.. why are you doing this? I'd be all over this case if it was presented by anyone but you.. maybe I should abandon the wifom and be all over it now too.
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Vote: Insomniac
-
Chicken vote: Insomniac
Chicken vote: Robz888
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In case I die at night--and I will--please look for scum on my wagon. The people on my wagon are too smart to actually want to kill me, unless they are scum. I highly suspect Galzria.
What's your defense tomorrow going to be when your scummates don't kill you?
Stay tuned!
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Don't lynch Robz you idiots he's a town PR. lynch Insomniac
I'm not one to advocate policy lynches but.. why are you doing this? I'd be all over this case if it was presented by anyone but you.. maybe I should abandon the wifom and be all over it now too.
Don't lynch Robz you idiots he's a town PR. lynch Insomniac
So then you are early claiming VT?
Essentially, if it'll stop the town from lynching a PR...
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Vote: Insomniac
Don't bother:
If Insomniac is scum, the only reason he would push for his own lynch of Robz's is that Robz is his scum PR that he doesn't want to see die. We can find that out much easier by lynching Robz.
Or, Insomniac is town, voting for himself, in which case he should just be ignored.
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Vote: Insomniac
Don't bother:
If Insomniac is scum, the only reason he would push for his own lynch of Robz's is that Robz is his scum PR that he doesn't want to see die. We can find that out much easier by lynching Robz.
Or, Insomniac is town, voting for himself, in which case he should just be ignored.
He could also be scum trying to buy town credit with this gambit.
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Vote: Insomniac
Don't bother:
If Insomniac is scum, the only reason he would push for his own lynch of Robz's is that Robz is his scum PR that he doesn't want to see die. We can find that out much easier by lynching Robz.
Or, Insomniac is town, voting for himself, in which case he should just be ignored.
He could also be scum trying to buy town credit with this gambit.
+1 and +1 for being on my wagon...now come on guys, vote Insomniac, you get cake at the end.
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Insomniac, no.
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Vote: Insomniac
Don't bother:
If Insomniac is scum, the only reason he would push for his own lynch of Robz's is that Robz is his scum PR that he doesn't want to see die. We can find that out much easier by lynching Robz.
Or, Insomniac is town, voting for himself, in which case he should just be ignored.
He could also be scum trying to buy town credit with this gambit.
Yeah, but that wouldn't work out too well for him if we actually lynched him. ;D
Although you make a (silent) point that he wouldn't get lynched anyway, so... there's not much harm in him doing this as scum. Eh, I actually think Insomniac is more likely to be town than not. I just think he too easily buys into PR claims. Hey scum, hear that? Just claim PR and Insomniac will leave you alone!
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Vote: Insomniac
Don't bother:
If Insomniac is scum, the only reason he would push for his own lynch of Robz's is that Robz is his scum PR that he doesn't want to see die. We can find that out much easier by lynching Robz.
Or, Insomniac is town, voting for himself, in which case he should just be ignored.
He could also be scum trying to buy town credit with this gambit.
+1 and +1 for being on my wagon...now come on guys, vote Insomniac, you get cake at the end.
I actually will vote insomniac for this ridiculous play - if enough others are cool with it.
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Vote: Insomniac
Don't bother:
If Insomniac is scum, the only reason he would push for his own lynch of Robz's is that Robz is his scum PR that he doesn't want to see die. We can find that out much easier by lynching Robz.
Or, Insomniac is town, voting for himself, in which case he should just be ignored.
He could also be scum trying to buy town credit with this gambit.
Yeah, but that wouldn't work out too well for him if we actually lynched him. ;D
Although you make a (silent) point that he wouldn't get lynched anyway, so... there's not much harm in him doing this as scum. Eh, I actually think Insomniac is more likely to be town than not. I just think he too easily buys into PR claims. Hey scum, hear that? Just claim PR and Insomniac will leave you alone!
False. I have advocated lynching PR's before but not on day 1
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Vote: Insomniac
Don't bother:
If Insomniac is scum, the only reason he would push for his own lynch of Robz's is that Robz is his scum PR that he doesn't want to see die. We can find that out much easier by lynching Robz.
Or, Insomniac is town, voting for himself, in which case he should just be ignored.
He could also be scum trying to buy town credit with this gambit.
+1 and +1 for being on my wagon...now come on guys, vote Insomniac, you get cake at the end.
I actually will vote insomniac for this ridiculous play - if enough others are cool with it.
Do it now. Why wait?
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Vote: Insomniac
Don't bother:
If Insomniac is scum, the only reason he would push for his own lynch of Robz's is that Robz is his scum PR that he doesn't want to see die. We can find that out much easier by lynching Robz.
Or, Insomniac is town, voting for himself, in which case he should just be ignored.
He could also be scum trying to buy town credit with this gambit.
+1 and +1 for being on my wagon...now come on guys, vote Insomniac, you get cake at the end.
I actually will vote insomniac for this ridiculous play - if enough others are cool with it.
Ins is my #1 lynch from game start.
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There is enough people here to lynch me.
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Vote: Insomniac
Don't bother:
If Insomniac is scum, the only reason he would push for his own lynch of Robz's is that Robz is his scum PR that he doesn't want to see die. We can find that out much easier by lynching Robz.
Or, Insomniac is town, voting for himself, in which case he should just be ignored.
He could also be scum trying to buy town credit with this gambit.
+1 and +1 for being on my wagon...now come on guys, vote Insomniac, you get cake at the end.
I actually will vote insomniac for this ridiculous play - if enough others are cool with it.
Do it now. Why wait?
Because I prefer RobZ lynch to no lynch - and I'm optimistic that someone will hammer that ass.
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Vote: Insomniac
Don't bother:
If Insomniac is scum, the only reason he would push for his own lynch of Robz's is that Robz is his scum PR that he doesn't want to see die. We can find that out much easier by lynching Robz.
Or, Insomniac is town, voting for himself, in which case he should just be ignored.
He could also be scum trying to buy town credit with this gambit.
+1 and +1 for being on my wagon...now come on guys, vote Insomniac, you get cake at the end.
I actually will vote insomniac for this ridiculous play - if enough others are cool with it.
Ins is my #1 lynch from game start.
Then get on my wagon! Or are you too worried people will know your scum when I flip town.
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Assuming jo is willing, that makes 5 of us, we miss 2. Robz, on the other hand, is second to Ins right now.
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Don't lynch Insomniac. He wouldn't do this gambit as mafia, because there's a reasonable chance it works out and we kill him. He's just going insane because he's convinvced (correctly) that I am town. I feel like rage self-hammering, so I can understand.
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Chicken vote: Robz
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Insomniac has said that he's burned out on mafia a little bit. I could totally believe that he wants to do something crazy as scum.
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Chicken vote: Robz
Yea we get it Jo you want to lynch a town PR. Care to lynch me instead.
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Don't lynch Insomniac. He wouldn't do this gambit as mafia, because there's a reasonable chance it works out and we kill him. He's just going insane because he's convinvced (correctly) that I am town. I feel like rage self-hammering, so I can understand.
He's calculated again.
What happened to "I'd do anything not to lynch myself". Ragehammer? Why not go for ins that you now assume is VT if it saves your precious PR ass? (from your "assumed" perspective").
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I don't like the Insomniac lynch.
C'mon people wake up! IF Insomniac is scum, then him getting himself lynched here destroy's their team, as Robz will follow as 100% obvscum tomorrow. Scum Insomniac *wouldnt'* come out with an absolute "lynch me first" as scum. If you all go over to lynching Insomniac, it's almost certainly going to lead to a VT lynch.
It's rather plausible that VT Insomniac would act this way however. He may be right, he may be wrong, but it's within reason for him to do this (I personally think he's wrong, obviously). But for the same reason I really think that Grujah is likely to be town (plausibility people. Build your storylines with what MAKES SENSE), I also think Insomniac is. He's a bad lynch.
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Chicken Vote: Galzria
Chicken.
Chicken Unvote
Chicken Vote: Eevee
Chicken Vote: Eevee
Chicken Vote: Eevee
Chicken Vote: Eevee
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Vote: Galzria Grujah, Robz and Insomniac all seem town to me in the end. Add me to the list, and we have a pretty good chance of finding scum tomorrow even if we nolynch like it looks like it's going to be..
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I don't like the Insomniac lynch.
C'mon people wake up! IF Insomniac is scum, then him getting himself lynched here destroy's their team, as Robz will follow as 100% obvscum tomorrow. Scum Insomniac *wouldnt'* come out with an absolute "lynch me first" as scum. If you all go over to lynching Insomniac, it's almost certainly going to lead to a VT lynch.
It's rather plausible that VT Insomniac would act this way however. He may be right, he may be wrong, but it's within reason for him to do this (I personally think he's wrong, obviously). But for the same reason I really think that Grujah is likely to be town (plausibility people. Build your storylines with what MAKES SENSE), I also think Insomniac is. He's a bad lynch.
His ploy is safe if he's got you to defend him!
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Chicken vote: Eevee
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I don't like the Insomniac lynch.
C'mon people wake up! IF Insomniac is scum, then him getting himself lynched here destroy's their team, as Robz will follow as 100% obvscum tomorrow. Scum Insomniac *wouldnt'* come out with an absolute "lynch me first" as scum. If you all go over to lynching Insomniac, it's almost certainly going to lead to a VT lynch.
All this assuming Robz is scum. (other thing being Ins buying town points for tomoz). (I assume Robz is scum as well, though I cannot be sure)
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Chicken vote: Eevee
Because he isn't suspected?
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I don't like the Insomniac lynch.
C'mon people wake up! IF Insomniac is scum, then him getting himself lynched here destroy's their team, as Robz will follow as 100% obvscum tomorrow. Scum Insomniac *wouldnt'* come out with an absolute "lynch me first" as scum. If you all go over to lynching Insomniac, it's almost certainly going to lead to a VT lynch.
It's rather plausible that VT Insomniac would act this way however. He may be right, he may be wrong, but it's within reason for him to do this (I personally think he's wrong, obviously). But for the same reason I really think that Grujah is likely to be town (plausibility people. Build your storylines with what MAKES SENSE), I also think Insomniac is. He's a bad lynch.
His ploy is safe if he's got you to defend him!
And how likely is it that you think he was going to count on that? Have your READ the last 8 pages?
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It's funny, I agree with pretty much everything Galzria says.. yet I see him being scum perfectly plausible, because he is only being reasonable and smart about the stuff that makes sense to be reasonable about (for scum).
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We only have 20 minutes left...you can still lynch me
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Chicken Vote: Captain_Frisk
Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken.
Chicken Vote: Eevee
Chicken Vote: Grujah
Chicken Vote: Eevee
Chicken Vote: Robz888
Chicken Vote: Eevee
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We only have 20 minutes left...you can still lynch me
You are not playing to your wincon buddy. No lynch is better than than a townie lynch, isn't it?
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I'm down on Eevee. My main concern is him being cocky in start and now he assumes many town.
Vote: Eevee
But again,
Vote: RobZ
unless we can ALL AGREE( me, volt, jo, CF, Ins, Robz, Galz) - it aint going to happen (Eevee lynch, that is).
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It's funny, I agree with pretty much everything Galzria says.. yet I see him being scum perfectly plausible, because he is only being reasonable and smart about the stuff that makes sense to be reasonable about (for scum).
;D Be reasonable and you're scum. Be unreasonable and you're town. What sort of crazy messed up world is this? ;)
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Chicken vote: Galzria
Chicken
Chicken unvote
Chicken vote: Voltgloss
Chicken
Chicken unvote
Chicken vote: Eevee
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We only have 20 minutes left...you can still lynch me
You are not playing to your wincon buddy. No lynch is better than than a townie lynch, isn't it?
In his wrong eyes, VT lynch is better than PR lynch.
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We only have 20 minutes left...you can still lynch me
You are not playing to your wincon buddy. No lynch is better than than a townie lynch, isn't it?
Absolutely not. I'll lynch a VT any day. A pr though, no dice.
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I'm down on Eevee. My main concern is him being cocky in start and now he assumes many town.
Vote: Eevee
But again,
Vote: RobZ
unless we can ALL AGREE( me, volt, jo, CF, Ins, Robz, Galz) - it aint going to happen (Eevee lynch, that is).
He's hedgy buddy on me in a way that gives me weird vibes. "I agree with everything he says, but could see him saying it as scum or town" - I don't know. If pushed, I would vote Eevee. But I would muchmuchmuchmuchmuchmuch prefer Robz.
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Chicken Vote: Robz888
Chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken Vote: Eevee
Chicken Unvote
Chicken Vote: Insomniac
Chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken Vote: Eevee
Chicken Unvote
Chicken Vote: Eevee
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This ins is MVIII and MXII scum Ins, especially this last comment.
Galz, CF, Ins, feelings on Eeevee?
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I'd be up for eevee (for being fine with no lynch) / insom - but I'm staying on RobZ unless it really looks like we can get some movement
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This ins is MVIII and MXII scum Ins, especially this last comment.
Galz, CF, Ins, feelings on Eeevee?
#930 ninja
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Chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken Vote: Eevee
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Robz and Ins left.
Only thing I have against eevee lynch is that this is how he died MVI. :P
But also, he played bad and I hate some of his Robz defense as well.
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This ins is MVIII and MXII scum Ins, especially this last comment.
Galz, CF, Ins, feelings on Eeevee?
He's my number 2 to Galz (or number 3 cuz I think the ins wagon is good)
Umm not sure what you're saying Gruj in M8 I was town in M12 I was scum I was calculated in 12 flaily in 8
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I'd be up for eevee (for being fine with no lynch) / insom - but I'm staying on RobZ unless it really looks like we can get some movement
It's just me not being fine with any of the alternatives!! I've been here trying to build alternative wagons all day, but I guess the targets would have been scum or something because nothing sticks. Not going to vote for my top town reads.
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It's time for a quick rundown of Insomniacs thoughts thus far!
1. shraeye - slight scum. Expressed a desire to derphammer because others didn't want it, hasn't posted any traditional shraeye big posts yet. (Not too worried on the latter)
2. Robz888 - Pretty normal. He's been quieter than normal but he expressed depression because of M12 has been actively trying to lynch lurkers. Null read
3. Voltgloss - Null read. Volts posts have striken me as traditional Volt but he has been pushing the new lynch lurkers meta a bit harder then I suspected given that it came from a game where 1 of the mafia was the most active player.
4. Eevee - Has been different this game but he's been having a bunch of confidence, Eevee is normally town and normally thinks I'm scum. I think he's a bit more scummy this game because of his acting differently but I normally find Eevee a bit scummy.
5. yuma - Quieter yuma as to be expected, I'd like to see more from him as normally he has some pretty good ideas as town. Null
6. Galzria - A bit scummy. Has expressed happiness that DS is pursuing lynch all lurkers meta but hasn't actually joined in on any of the wagons has tried to appear associated with the Grujah wagon. I would be highly suspect of Galz is Grujah is scum.
7. Insomniac - Obvtown.
8. ashersky - Was pretty low on the post count and content and when called out tried to do more of both. If I got called out as scum for either of those I would definetly respond similarily. Highest scum read which still doesn't say too much at this point in the game.
9. Captain_Frisk - slight town. I was getting a scum read off of him but his posts have done a lot to clear that up for me, I genuinely feel like he thinks I'm scum and that makes his voting for me feel more town.
10. Grujah - Slight scum. Hard to put into words why I'm just getting the scum Grujah vibe more than the town Grujah vibe.
11. Archetype - Nullish read, I gave him a FoS for what seemed to be buddying up to me he answered it adequately IMO.
12. jotheonah - Low post count, in a lot of games just got a new job. Null read, look forward to seeing more posts so that I can get a better read.
13. Cuzz - More talkative then in MXII where he was the doctor, I'm getting a scum read from some of his posts and a town read in others, so he's getting a null from me right now. In MXII he claimed he was trying to seem scummy, and man did he so I'm not sure what scum Cuzz would look like.
I agree with everything Insomniac said. Every single thing. Every word.
New forum mafia meta - instead of extreme day 1 bussing, extreme day 1 buddying.
I think Volt is quoting this.
Vote: Eevee
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Vote: Eevee - but i'll come back and hammer robz if needed!
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Vote: Eevee - but i'll come back and hammer robz if needed!
Samsies.
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Where am I at?
-
Vote Count?
-
I think Eevee is at 3 and Robz is down to 4
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Eevee is at 4, I tihnk.
Though, why am I falling for Robz trap to go from him into quicklynch?
Vote: Robz
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I counted 4, joth volt Grujah CF.
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I think Eevee is at 3 and Robz is down to 4
Eevee was 4, me, volt, cf, jo.
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(http://lolvirgin.com/wp-content/uploads/Let-me-Hammer-that-ass.jpg)
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Eevee is at 4, I tihnk.
Though, why am I falling for Robz trap to go from him into quicklynch?
Vote: Robz
I trust you are town. Should I agree to hammer Robz even if I think his claim is pretty plausible?
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Grujah smarten up Vote Insomniac instead it's just as informative for town.
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Vote Count 1.17:
Robz888 (3): ashersky, Galzria, Grujah
Grujah (3): yuma, Archetype, Cuzz
Galzria (2): Robz888, Eevee
Insomniac (1): Insomniac
Eevee (3): Voltgloss, jotheonah, Captain_Frisk
Not voting (1): shraeye
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Currently Cursed: Voltgloss, jotheonah
Curse deadline: Tuesday Oct 23, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
Lynch deadline: Tuesday Oct 23, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
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Eevee don't do it
Scum lynch>VT Lynch>No Lynch>PR lynch>IC Lynch
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Chicken Vote: Robz888
Chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken Vote: Eevee
Chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken Vote: Eevee
Chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken Vote: Eevee
Chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken Vote: Eevee
Chicken Unvote
Chicken Vote: Eevee
Chicken Vote: Robz888
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Eevee is at 4, I tihnk.
Though, why am I falling for Robz trap to go from him into quicklynch?
Vote: Robz
I trust you are town. Should I agree to hammer Robz even if I think his claim is pretty plausible?
Play for yourself.
That said, I believe his claim if fake, so I'd do it.
@Ins, SFTU, you are doing nothing and trolling at deadline, you are my D2 push. Everybody else are trying to achive something, you are trolling.
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Chicken Vote: Cuzz
Chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken Vote: Eevee
Chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken Vote: Eevee
Chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken Vote: Eevee
Chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken Vote: Eevee
Chicken Unvote
Chicken Vote: Eevee
Chicken Vote: Robz888
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Chicken Vote: Robz888
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Eevee don't do it
Scum lynch>VT Lynch>No Lynch>PR lynch>IC Lynch
I'm not certain though. I think both possibilities are plausible, and generally tend to trust claims that are plausible and feel ok on a gut level. But Robz is definitely smart enough to fool me. Agree with Grujah on Insomniac's usefulness here near the deadline. Then again, what did I get for trying to play seriously.. almost myself lynched.
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@Ins, SFTU, you are doing nothing and trolling at deadline, you are my D2 push. Everybody else are trying to achive something, you are trolling.
Vote: Insmoniac
Vote: Robz888
only cuz you aint going to happen and people should realzie what you have been doing for past 3 hours.
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Robz and Ins on Eevee?
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Eevee is at 4, I tihnk.
Though, why am I falling for Robz trap to go from him into quicklynch?
Vote: Robz
I trust you are town. Should I agree to hammer Robz even if I think his claim is pretty plausible?
Play for yourself.
That said, I believe his claim if fake, so I'd do it.
@Ins, SFTU, you are doing nothing and trolling at deadline, you are my D2 push. Everybody else are trying to achive something, you are trolling.
I AM trying to achieve something..NOT lynching a town PR
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Robz and Ins on Eevee?
Opinions, I mean.
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I believe I have the hammer - and am not afraid to use it.
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Wait - never mind - grujah was already on robz
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Chicken Vote: Grujah
Chicken.
Chicken Unvote
Chicken Vote: Eevee
Chicken Vote: Robz888
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Vote: RobZ
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Robz and Ins on Eevee?
Opinions, I mean.
As stated he is second scummiest to me
Galz>Eevee
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Chicken Vote: Cuzz
Chicken Vote: Cuzz
Chicken Vote: Cuzz
Chicken Vote: Cuzz
Chicken Vote: Cuzz
Chicken Vote: Cuzz
Chicken Vote: Cuzz
Chicken Vote: Cuzz
Chicken Vote: Cuzz
Chicken Vote: Cuzz
Chicken Vote: Cuzz
Chicken Vote: Robz888
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T-4 minutes.
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ITT we lynch our PR's on day 1 cuz we're ridiculous
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Eevee is at 4, I tihnk.
Though, why am I falling for Robz trap to go from him into quicklynch?
Vote: Robz
I trust you are town. Should I agree to hammer Robz even if I think his claim is pretty plausible?
Play for yourself.
That said, I believe his claim if fake, so I'd do it.
@Ins, SFTU, you are doing nothing and trolling at deadline, you are my D2 push. Everybody else are trying to achive something, you are trolling.
I AM trying to achieve something..NOT lynching a town PR
And awfully, awfully bad way to do it - which is probably intended.
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Eevee, Cuzz? Hammer?
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Vote: Robz
Lets roll the dice.
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Robz and Ins on Eevee?
Opinions, I mean.
As stated he is second scummiest to me
Galz>Eevee
Still no vote on him even though you are "trying not to get PR lynched". HUh.
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Chicken.
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chicken chicken chicken chicken.
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And he was possible for a moment there.
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Thread locked.
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Day 1 End:
Robz888 (7): ashersky, Galzria, Voltgloss, jotheonah, Grujah, Captain_Frisk, Eevee
Grujah (3): yuma, Archetype, Cuzz
Galzria (1): Robz888
Insomniac (1): Insomniac
Not voting (1): shraeye
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Robz888 was looking suspicious. "Give us one reason why you are not a Sea Hag?" shouted some of the villagers.
"Don't worry, I know I won't get lynched so I don't need to give you reasons," Robz888 said. "Let's explore some other options."
"I bet you love to turn people into chickens," shouted another villager.
"No, no, though I admit I have explored eating chicken," said Robz888. "Guys, since I'm not going to get lynched we should probably look at lynching someone else. If there was some sort of Explorer in town maybe they could look for some additional information on who the Sea Hags are, and then we could lynch them. "
"Yeah, that probably would be useful," said the villagers. "Anyhow let's lynch you first!"
Robz888, the Fishing Village-aligned Explorer, has been lynched.
Night Actions are due in to me via PM by 11 am PDT tomorrow. If you do not wish to use your action please send No Action. Day 2 starts Noon PDT tomorrow, and will not start sooner.
Thread Locked
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Though no one noticed it during the lynch. It was all too frantic and hectic, but jotheonah and Voltgloss returned to human form. Insomniac however has laid an egg, and spent the lynch sitting on it.
Currently Cursed: Insomniac
Curse deadline: Friday Oct 26, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
Thread is still locked. Sorry I forgot to resolve Cursing in the confusion.
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Day 2
The town wakes up more determined than ever to find who is ruining their idyllic fishing village lifestyle. They move to the town square, where Insomniac the chicken is sitting on a stone ledge. He clucks a good morning "Chicken" to everyone.
Some one steps forward and asks, "Does anyone have any ideas how to stop us from becoming chickens?"
Voltgloss steps forward saying, "Luckily with my lifetime of experience coupled with my time as a chicken I think I came up with a way to prevent the chickening process."
"How does it work?" someone asks.
"I'll show you," he replies. "I've already attempted it once and I think it's working. All you have to do is... ummm, oh I've forgotten how it works, but don't worry I wrote it down. Just let me go home and fetch it."
Voltgloss leaves for home to get his method and the town waits patiently, and then they wait impatiently. Eventually someone says, "Why don't we just go to his house?"
The town goes to Voltgloss' house to see the results of his idea, and find his door ajar. They go inside to find him and find him they do sitting at his desk with a knife in his back. His notes have been stolen, but left on his desk is his diplomatic passport.
Voltgloss, the Fishing Village-aligned Ambassador, has been killed.
Not voting (11): shraeye, Eevee, yuma, Galzria, Insomniac, ashersky, Captain_Frisk, Grujah, Archetype, jotheonah, Cuzz
With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.
Currently Cursed: Insomniac
Curse deadline: Friday Oct 26, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
Lynch deadline: Tuesday Oct 30, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
Thread Unlocked...
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So we have goofy vig and 1 shot hider remaining?
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So I really did think Robz was scum yesterday. At first because he was so set on lynching a person who couldn't defend himself, and second because he claimed like three times. I don't remember agreeing as a town that we would permit and expect that degree of lying from a town player, but I want to go on record and say that's a bad policy.
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Chicken Vote: Eevee
Chicken Vote: Grujah
Chicken Vote: Galzria
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Chicken Vote: Eevee
Chicken Vote: Grujah
Chicken Vote: Galzria
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Chicken Vote: Eevee
Chicken Vote: Grujah
Chicken Vote: Galzria
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Really Ins? All three town were on the day 1 town lynch wagon?
Also, Ins, that pressure vote comment was inane yesterday.
It's so good to be able to talk again!
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BTW, one reason why I think I was the random target is because I WAS lurking so much, and it seems like scum would want to Chicken-ize more active players.
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So Insomniac is a chicken?
I still think Grujah and probably Insomniac are town. I'm sorry for hammering Robz, nolynch is obviously terrible, it was a hard decision with very little time to make it, but I had my reasons (that obviously were wrong). Especially apologetic towards Robz, I think he handled the situation ok but was a victim of unfortunate circumstances. I found it weird people thought he was like "forsure super scummy". Also find suspecting Grujah a bit weird, to me he looks like all but guaranteed town unless his yesterday's gambit was super-calcutated genius. Doubt it.
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Insomniac - are you calling a scum trio - or just listening your top suspects? (chicken = first, 2x chicken = second, 3x chicken = go cluck yourself)
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Chicken Vote: jotheonah
Chicken Chicken
Chicken Unvote
Chicken Vote: Captain_Frisk
Chicken Chicken
Chicken Unvote
Chicken Vote: Insomniac
Chicken Vote: Captain_Frisk
Chicken Vote: jotheonah
Chicken Vote: Cuzz
Chicken Vote: yuma
Chicken Vote: shraeye
Chicken Vote: Archetype
Chicken Vote: ashersky
Chicken Vote: Eevee
Chicken Vote: Grujah
Chicken Vote: Galzria
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Unless I'm reading it wrong, you are saying you think all three scum where on the Robz wagon, but you are not calling a scum pair on me Galzria and Grujah?
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No, he's saying his three top reads were all on the wagon, but he doesn't think all three of them are scum.
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Ah, that makes so much more sense. Freaking language barrier!
If I had to pick now, my top scum read would be Galzria. Making à ton of sense on almost everything but then being majorly 'wrong' about one thing (Robz) just feels like à reasonable scum strategy to me.
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Eh, I hate being wrong, but there you have it. I stand by my vote 100% - Had Robz actually given us an opportunity to believe his claim was anything more than a last minute ploy at desperation 1 hour before the deadline to sow confusion, then it would've made sense to back down. As it was, it looked like an attempt to throw the town into disarray, causing no lynch or the lynch of a townie.
I still think Grujah is town. I still think insomniac is town. I think we need to refocus on some of the people who weren't around for the deadline and see where they stand now. I'm fairly suspicious of Eevee, for the reasons stated before the lynch. Everybody else I'm mostly neutral on.
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Torn between Eevee and Ins, ash and shareye come after that. than invisiyuma and CF, than jo, arch, galz and cuzz.
Vote... hmm.
Eevee
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Chicken Vote: Eevee
Chicken Vote: Grujah
Chicken Vote: Galzria
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It's ultra-frustrating to have both your town reads heavily suspecting and even voting for you. We see this game completely different.. I usually see eye to eye with Galzria so well, I'm left to think our disagreements here are because Galzria is scum. But, maybe I'm the one who is clueless.
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Torn between Eevee and Ins, ash and shareye come after that. than invisiyuma and CF, than jo, arch, galz and cuzz.
Vote... hmm.
Eevee
Hmm, I find it hard to see why scum would push a wagon away from the most powerful townie as hard as Insomniac did.
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Insomniac wouldn't know that RobZ was the most powerful townie
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That, plus, if he wanted to push it away from Robz for real, he'd go after jo or Eevee, he wouldn't go for horrible self-lynch idea that nobody was gonna do anyway. He's "attempt" at saving robz was pathetically bad.
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Chicken Vote: Grujah
Chicken Vote: Insomniac
Chicken Vote: Insomniac
Chicken Vote: Insomniac
Chicken Vote: Insomniac
Chicken Unvote
Chicken Vote: Eevee
Chicken Vote: Grujah
Chicken Vote: Galzria
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Insomniac wouldn't know that RobZ was the most powerful townie
True enough, but he would have known he was a PR of some kind, and the way Robz was begging to live he might have guessed. The other PRs aren't really all that powerful are they?
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Grujah, what would you say if we said we're holding you to your bargain with Robz, and we want to lynch you today?
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Chicken Vote: jotheonah
Chicken
Chicken Unvote
Chicken Vote: Eevee
Chicken Vote: Grujah
Chicken Vote: Galzria
Chicken Vote: Grujah
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It's ultra-frustrating to have both your town reads heavily suspecting and even voting for you. We see this game completely different.. I usually see eye to eye with Galzria so well, I'm left to think our disagreements here are because Galzria is scum. But, maybe I'm the one who is clueless.
This really really reads as a hardcore form of buddying to get people reading you as scum to back off. "You think I'm scum, but I was sooo suuure you were town!" is just designed to make someone think, oh man, this person is correct about me; I suppose they aren't so bad after all.
Vote: Eevee
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It's ultra-frustrating to have both your town reads heavily suspecting and even voting for you. We see this game completely different.. I usually see eye to eye with Galzria so well, I'm left to think our disagreements here are because Galzria is scum. But, maybe I'm the one who is clueless.
This really really reads as a hardcore form of buddying to get people reading you as scum to back off. "You think I'm scum, but I was sooo suuure you were town!" is just designed to make someone think, oh man, this person is correct about me; I suppose they aren't so bad after all.
Vote: Eevee
Except I was saying it all yesterday too?
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It's ultra-frustrating to have both your town reads heavily suspecting and even voting for you. We see this game completely different.. I usually see eye to eye with Galzria so well, I'm left to think our disagreements here are because Galzria is scum. But, maybe I'm the one who is clueless.
This really really reads as a hardcore form of buddying to get people reading you as scum to back off. "You think I'm scum, but I was sooo suuure you were town!" is just designed to make someone think, oh man, this person is correct about me; I suppose they aren't so bad after all.
Vote: Eevee
Except I was saying it all yesterday too?
What were you saying all yesterday?
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invisiyuma
will post more in a bit, but FYI:
I will be "invisiyuma" for 19 hours everyday weekday. There is nothing I can do about that. I have a 5 hour posting window from 4 p.m. to 9 p.m. Mountain Daylight time. Any other time I am 1. sleeping; 2. at work; 3. at rotations. I am no longer one of the lucky ones who can post at work. I posted this in the VLA thread way before this game started and have explained my situation in this game as well. But it seems I need to do so again.
So before you call me "invisiyuma", go back and check my posts during my available times. I think you will find that I am not invisible then.
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Going back and looking at some of Robz's reads. Certainly these aren't guaranteed to be correct just because he was town. Obviously Voltgloss's (town) read on Robz was wrong. But I do think it is worth looking at and potentially resurrecting.
I have said a BUNCH of times that ashersky is SUPER scummy. He is playing to me like the guy who got his first scum role. He is trying to direct the lynch more than usual, and is lurking a little less than usual. He isn't yet up to "level 2" scum play, where you just lurk until called out, or "level 3" scum play, where you neither lurk nor make bad arguments to achieve your desired lynch. He's me from M-II.
But this damned deadline, and the fact that so many people aren't here. Although now it's clear they were here, just hiding and making it look like Grujah vs. me were the only options. (I'm looking at Voltgloss here.)
If I don't make it, I'm fairly convinced Grujah is town, and Eevee. And now that I just went through it, I think Jo's reaction to pressure is exactly what mine was, and I know I'm town, so fine, he looks better.
Cuzz really wasn't letting me get away with my claim. He should be punished for that.
Scum: Galzria, ashersky, maybe Voltgloss, maybe Frisk, maybe Cuzz
Galzria got on me early, and oops! Has to be me or Grujah now, sorry, can't change, blah blah. So too Frisk and Volt, super suspicious in my view. So no, I didn't think I would actually get lynched. When it became clear to me that everyone was going to vote for me or Grujah, and when it became clear to even me that Grujah looked pretty townish,
In case I die at night--and I will--please look for scum on my wagon. The people on my wagon are too smart to actually want to kill me, unless they are scum. I highly suspect Galzria.
These quotes are from about vote count 13, which is where I started my analysis of Robz's reads. From these quotes it appears that he was pretty suspicious of Galzria, ashersky, Voltgloss (dead town), and to an extent Cuzz and Frisk.
On the other hand he had a pretty big townie read from eevee, jot and grujah.
Today I am going to try to do a specific reread on both Galz and ashersky and see if Robz's suspicion of them is justified.
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It's ultra-frustrating to have both your town reads heavily suspecting and even voting for you. We see this game completely different.. I usually see eye to eye with Galzria so well, I'm left to think our disagreements here are because Galzria is scum. But, maybe I'm the one who is clueless.
This really really reads as a hardcore form of buddying to get people reading you as scum to back off. "You think I'm scum, but I was sooo suuure you were town!" is just designed to make someone think, oh man, this person is correct about me; I suppose they aren't so bad after all.
Vote: Eevee
Except I was saying it all yesterday too?
What were you saying all yesterday?
Yeah that was unclear. What I meant to say was that my town reads on them preceded them suspecting me.
I forgot I all but promised Robz we'd go after ashersky today.
Vote: ashersky, I too should reread both ashersky and Galzria. Fwiw, I think yuma is contributing more than his fair share.
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Grujah, what would you say if we said we're holding you to your bargain with Robz, and we want to lynch you today?
I consider that Robz broke that deal off and that I am not obliged to go by it.
If town's consensus says that I am wrong and that I still need to keep my part, as town has less subjective view on the issue, I will take that judgement and vote myself as promised.
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Going back and looking at some of Robz's reads. Certainly these aren't guaranteed to be correct just because he was town. Obviously Voltgloss's (town) read on Robz was wrong. But I do think it is worth looking at and potentially resurrecting.
I have said a BUNCH of times that ashersky is SUPER scummy. He is playing to me like the guy who got his first scum role. He is trying to direct the lynch more than usual, and is lurking a little less than usual. He isn't yet up to "level 2" scum play, where you just lurk until called out, or "level 3" scum play, where you neither lurk nor make bad arguments to achieve your desired lynch. He's me from M-II.
But this damned deadline, and the fact that so many people aren't here. Although now it's clear they were here, just hiding and making it look like Grujah vs. me were the only options. (I'm looking at Voltgloss here.)
If I don't make it, I'm fairly convinced Grujah is town, and Eevee. And now that I just went through it, I think Jo's reaction to pressure is exactly what mine was, and I know I'm town, so fine, he looks better.
Cuzz really wasn't letting me get away with my claim. He should be punished for that.
Scum: Galzria, ashersky, maybe Voltgloss, maybe Frisk, maybe Cuzz
Galzria got on me early, and oops! Has to be me or Grujah now, sorry, can't change, blah blah. So too Frisk and Volt, super suspicious in my view. So no, I didn't think I would actually get lynched. When it became clear to me that everyone was going to vote for me or Grujah, and when it became clear to even me that Grujah looked pretty townish,
In case I die at night--and I will--please look for scum on my wagon. The people on my wagon are too smart to actually want to kill me, unless they are scum. I highly suspect Galzria.
These quotes are from about vote count 13, which is where I started my analysis of Robz's reads. From these quotes it appears that he was pretty suspicious of Galzria, ashersky, Voltgloss (dead town), and to an extent Cuzz and Frisk.
On the other hand he had a pretty big townie read from eevee, jot and grujah.
Today I am going to try to do a specific reread on both Galz and ashersky and see if Robz's suspicion of them is justified.
Why start with Robz's reads? He was killed in a lynch yesterday, and only had time to form the same sort of "accurate" day1 reads we all have. I'm pretty sure that his lynch was pushed because it was convenient for the mafia, not because they were worried peopel would believe his reads.
Now if you want to go back and analyze some of Voltgloss's reads, then I'll buy that they could be a bit more accurate. Scum would be more worried about a player who is making correct reads and would likely factor this into their NK.
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Reading Robz's reads is smart because he has good instincts and is confirmed town now.
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Reading Robz's reads is smart because he has good instincts and is confirmed town now.
MXII disagrees lol.
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Reading Robz's reads is smart because he has good instincts and is confirmed town now.
MXII disagrees lol.
Everyone makes mistakes! I still like his reads more than than those of someone who could be scum. And he REALLY suspected ashersky and I actually just now realize he made the same argument against Galzria that I'm making.
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ashersky starts out the day kinda lurky and has an early vote for shraeye, but his first major vote was on Robz for his involvement in the Voltgloss chicken conspiracy theory.
So then Robz comes in on the Volt plot side.
The discussion that follows is the likelihood/ability for scum to have planned it out. I think it's consensus that everyone who's played with Volt before could have expected volt to take the lead he did.
Robz comes back, ignoring that portion of the conversation, and again makes strong statements of suspicion against Volt. Note: what I think is scummy about that (post 452 for reference) is that he continues to try and make it seem like it is someone else's idea, but I think by that point, it's been discussed enough that its disingenuous to do that.
A few posts later, he says he assumes Volt got chickened intentionally. volt gives us his reads, with Robz at the top of his list, Robz does his wink wink post.
I think that is the whole of the Volt plot thread. My take is that while Volt could have planned all this, I don't think it's the most likely scenario. I do think looking at how all that discussion about it played out is very useful though, and I think Robz looks worst there. Pushing the a volt suspicion, trying to look like he's sheeping something that's stronger than it really is, his jokey brush off of volt's suspicion...all together gives me a strong scum vibe. Enough for a vote: Robz.
Shortly after is one of ashersky's oddest moments and one that Robz picked up heavily on was his calling out eevee for being hedgy.
Not sure the answer to your question, but I wasn't going after it so much as pointing out it sounded hedgy.
to which Robz responded: Ashersky is always a shady character, but I think he's much shadier in this game than usual. He wasn't criticizing Eevee's hedginess, just pointing it out? What's the point of that? He's finger-pointing, and when he's called out on it, he says he didn't mean anything by it. Quite scummy behavior.
This conversation continues for a couple of posts with Robz having the last word:
But it doesn't make much sense to point out hedginess if you aren't actually going to argue that it's scummy. Pointing it out for the sake of pointing it out is scummy, because it's as if you're just throwing stuff out there to see what sticks.
to which ash never responds to or again tries to defend.
Instead Ash adds a bit to his case on Robz:
I wanted to point out two more nuggets for the Robz case--lost in all of this was Robz reply #368, which raised some concern at the time (this was Robz "completely agreeing" with everything Insom said), which I think is indicative of some of Robz odd/scummy play this game. It's also a good example of many of Robz's fluff posts that inflate his "non-lurker" post count.
I would also point out Robz #381, in which he states his firm belief that scum want to get on town wagons early, for strategic sake. And then I'd note he is second on my wagon after Insom voted me at 4:21 a.m. (my time) for "lurkiness" even when I wasn't even the low post count at the time.
So, in short, I'm good with my Robz vote still.
he adds some commentary about jot
Joth is at 4 votes, his self-vote sounds like frustration? Giving up? I don't know.
I'm tempted to vote for Eevee for his Grujah vote, trying to derail the joth wagon without a reason (given in that post). But then I'd be doing the same thing.
I could vote Joth if needed, and he'd be at L-2. I think enough of us are around to unvote if we think something fishy is going on.
Joth, anything more to say? Care to unvote yourself?
and then very shortly after votes jot for his self vote after being convinced by Robz... who he has a scum read on? But his vote there doesn't last very long as he changes his vote to Robz with his last post of the day.
vote: Robz
I studied the wagons again, and my original and strongest scum read matches up with others I think are towny (Grujah, Galz), and I still trust that read the best.
We can't no lynch today. It's night here and deadline is 6 am my time. I am good with this vote, have been all day.
At this point he was the 5th vote on Robz. Previous voters were Galz, Voltgloss, jot and Grujah. But all eventually left the robz wagon for various reasons before the end of day and before rejoining it.
I think my main issue with him is his "strong" scum read on Robz when I think--and Robz argued--that it was based on flimsy evidence. It does seem rather forced. His initial vote is based off the voltgloss conspiracy theory, which never held much water for me. He backs it up with "robz completely agreed with insomniac" which was odd, but not necessarily scummy and that Robz did what said scum would do in trying to join a wagon early.
In addition I looked at his post totals. According to the print screen ash has 38 posts; I split them into categories--obviously there is some amount of objectivity to that, but I think the results were interesting anyways.
asks someone a simple question: 3
provides unique analysis: 5
quick response or pat of an ongoing conversation: 14
pregame/RVS/fluff: 8
theory talk: 8
So nearly half of his posts are fluff or theory talk. There is some unique analysis, but not a lot. He has quite a few quick responses and actually participates in more back and forth conversations than he gives himself credit for.
I could easily vote for ash, but want to look at Galz and a few others first. Actually, I will vote: ashersky now. If I think Galz or someone else is scummier, I can change it.
PPE: beat you to it eevee. Shraeye I do think going back and looking at Volt's reads is a good idea. But I started with Robz because volt's main read was Robz (town) so I know that volt was wrong whereas I am not sure if Robz is or not.
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Vote: Captain_Frisk
Here's why:
He was on both the Grujah and Robz wagon. That should be scummy enough, but no, there's more.
Does anyone know what the current vote count is?
Probably not a big deal, but he could be looking for where he can jump on a bandwagon, and hopefully fuel it to a lynch.
Vote: Archetype Lurking and scummy position on wagon.
That's ironic. I'm in the same position as you were on the Grujah wagon.
I found it pretty hilarious when he voted for me for the reasons he did. At the time, he didn't post that often by all means, and he called my postion on the jo wagon 'scummy' even though that was the position he was in on the Grujah wagon.
The fact that he still hasn't responded to my comment makes him even more scummy.
Robz, fwiw I will hammer you just before the deadline if nolynch is the alternative. I don't like archetype lynch.
Whats your issue with Archetype lynch?
Continues to press a lynch on me. I have a feeling it's because I was one of the few to attack him.
And to answer C_F's question: I don't think Robz likes lynching Town as much as you do.
There's plenty of more instances where he has acted scummy and anyone who tried to cross him was inflicted in some way (Volt being chickenized).
I hope I'm not the only one who has noticed Captian_Frisk's general anti-town play.
Please note: I don't often make big posts, but when I do, they are serious.
*On a much, much lighter note: I finally figured out what your profile is C_F and how it's not a hat.
Also, looks like I was right on Robz not being the right lynch. Now we're down 2 (!) power roles!
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Not convinced by above case.
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Not convinced by above case.
Scum usually isn't when they've been caught.
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I see scum trying to get in front of scummy day 1 lurking by trying to start a bs case.
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See lekkit in m6 day 2 as an example.
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Vote Count 2.1
Eevee (2): Grujah, shraeye
Grujah (1): Insomniac
ashersky (2): Eevee, yuma
Captain_Frisk (1): Archetype
Not voting (5): Galzria, ashersky, jotheonah, Cuzz, Captain_Frisk
With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.
Currently Cursed: Insomniac
Curse deadline: Friday Oct 26, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
Lynch deadline: Tuesday Oct 30, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
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See lekkit in m6 day 2 as an example.
did you mean theorel again? lekkit wasn't in game 6
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Vote Count 2.1
Eevee (2): Grujah, shraeye
Grujah (1): Insomniac
ashersky (2): Eevee, yuma
Captain_Frisk (1): Archetype
Not voting (5): Galzria, ashersky, Archetype, jotheonah, Cuzz
With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.
Currently Cursed: Insomniac
Curse deadline: Friday Oct 26, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
Lynch deadline: Tuesday Oct 30, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
Slight error Jorbles. I'm voting for Frisk, not the other way around.
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He's got it right.
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See lekkit in m6 day 2 as an example.
did you mean theorel again? lekkit wasn't in game 6
Damnit
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Vote Count 2.1
Eevee (2): Grujah, shraeye
Grujah (1): Insomniac
ashersky (2): Eevee, yuma
Captain_Frisk (1): Archetype
Not voting (5): Galzria, ashersky, Archetype, jotheonah, Cuzz
With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.
Currently Cursed: Insomniac
Curse deadline: Friday Oct 26, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
Lynch deadline: Tuesday Oct 30, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
Slight error Jorbles. I'm voting for Frisk, not the other way around.
Aack, no I made an error, about your error :P You put me in 'not voting'.
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He's got it right.
No, he says I'm not voting. Which I am.
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He's got it right.
No, he says I'm not voting. Which I am.
Ahh. He does however correctly list me as having one vote: yours, and doesn't list me at all
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He's got it right.
No, he says I'm not voting. Which I am.
Ahh. He does however correctly list me as having one vote: yours, and doesn't list me at all
Yeah I meant to post the 'me listed as not voting' in post #1024 but I posted the other thing instead.
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Whereas Robz had a scummy read on ashersky from nearly the start his suspicion on Galz was developed later. Early in the game he has a pretty solid town read on him
In order to answer your question, I did a 5 minute re-read of Galzria. Well, bleh. I don't think he seems very different from normal. He's less omnipresent than usual, and briefer, but what he does say is pretty token Galzria. Strong opens, a dash of humor, against lurking, anti-Robz agenda... vintage Galzria, really.
Now, he's not being as relentlessly (annoyingly, even) townish as usual. Galzria is someone very much like Jo to me: I know what they're like, I just really don't know what they're like when they are mafia, because they are almost always town.
But that quickly changed over time and was only when Robz was in deep L-2, L-1, that his suspicion of Galz fully developed
Robz doesn't ever eloquently present a case on Galz. But the premise of his suspicion, which was pretty high toward the end of the day--although that may have been partially a survival mechanism kicking in of "everyone lynch this guy so I don't have to die!" which is a pretty natural reaction from a power role townie, can be summarized pretty well in this quote I think
Yeah, now that I think about it for a second, everything Galzria just did was posturing for my flip. "Oh, I feel like Robz is town but Grujah can't be scum (wrong, by the way), what to do, oh lesser of two evils, woe is me..."
So the question is to look and see if Galz really did posture in the way that Robz describes.
- One of Galz's earlier posts is a vote on Robz for advocating a lynch all lurkers meta. I agreed and still agree with Galz's rationale, but it could have been a valid excuse to put a vote down on Robz.
Vote: Robz
That felt really disingenuous. I think we need to be wary that not ALL scum are lurkers, and that not all infrequent posting is lurking. Furthermore, I think we need to be careful to note that certain people, like myself or Robz, can choose how frequent our posting patterns are, regardless of our alignment. I'm especially wary (personally) of people (scum) using the policy as a backbone to their votes.
Galz does advocate pretty hard against the jot wagon at a time when it looked like the lynch was going to be either joth or Robz. But again, this is something I agreed and still agree with. He also further explains his scum read on Robz.
To further that point, my scum vibe from you comes from the fact that on the one hand you sit there arguing we should lynch Joth for lurking, because "that's how scum play" and we should "lynch all lurkers without exception",but then you turn around and argue case on Volt that says "he's suspicious BECAUSE he's been active, and that's what scum Volt would do". I actually AGREE with your thought about Volt, and you usually read him well. So it really throws me when you come back with a weak case and vote on Joth, using a case that's on the complete opposite end of the spectrum as your case on Volt. It's like you're trying to figure our which argument is going to stick best.
I don't think Joth is scum. I don't think he would choose to lurk as scum here. I think he's a bad lynch.
the next post I will quote is I think the one Robz was referencing when he alluded to posturing.
unvote
Parsing my thoughts:
Grujah is town. Scum Grujah would -never- have offered a 1-1 trade on Robz unless Robz were also scum, which I just don't believe (that they're both scum, I mean). Basically, scum Grujah would KNOW Robz was town... There would be 0 reason for him to throw this offer of lynch trades on the table against a player already likely to be lynched.
Now, on the flip side, Robz comes back that he'll agree only if we lynch Grujah first - but Robz HAS to recognize the above and know with near certainty that Grujah is town. From his perspective - look, I know Robz better than this. He would NEVER, no matter the circumstances, agree to being lynched. He would never self vote or promote his own death. If we lynched Grujah and Grujah flipped town, Robz would fight just as hard against his own lynch tomorrow.
So, how believable is Robz' "let's lynch you first?". Personally? It's not. From town or scum Robz. So the sticking point I have is Robz' attitude that lynching Grujah should be ok, because I really don't see how Grujah could be scum after his proposal
To Robz himself: His "I won't get lynched" reeks of O's "You all won't lynch me anyway" in M-VIII where O (and Robz) were scum. Basically it came down to: To many town were inactive or thought O was just being O - asinine, but not scummy - and since he wasn't going to be bussed hard, there was no chance he would be lynched.
I've -never- understood that attitude. If you don't want to claim, that's one thing. But to act like there are enough people in the game that don't want you dead speaks towards knowing you've got people who will have your back. Robz then came out and claimed VT... Now, if he were a PR, MAYBE I could see a "I'm too important and valuable, so won't get lynched" attitude... But that's not the case here.
So I'm having a really hard time here. I hate bring wrong, though it's often inevitable. From an emotional standpoint, Robz has given me a town feel. But on actual substance I just don't draw that same conclusion.
So... I'm going to return to Vote: Robz. If I were to put a percentage on it, I would read 65% scum. But that's higher than I have on anybody else, and I'm comfortable enough with my read to keep my name on this wagon.
Here galz makes the argument that Grujah can't be scum. It is an ok argument I think, but potentially fallible, as I think Grujah could pull off something like this, but I think it unlikely. I do find the bolded section (I added the bold) to reflect the posturing that Robz mentioned. At this point in the game Robz had 6 votes and Grujah 5 and it was about ~4 hours to lynch deadline.
Vote: Robz
A) He lied
B) He points out that there is not Doctor, so he can't be saved, but doesn't bother to claim which PR, thus cant be counterclaimed, leading to..
C) He doesn't get lynched, lives through tonight, claims tomorrow, draws a counterclaim, and gets todays Townie lynched PLUs tomorrow's PR lynched, before the town ever comes back to go "Oh no! We should've just lynched all liars!" back at A).
after robz changed his claim, Galz further pressures him and adds some rationale to his vote.
So as a summary, I see Robz's point about the posturing, but I don't see it as significant as Robz did. I think at that point to try and start a new wagon would have resulted in a mafia VIII like disaster. Galz didn't think Grujah or jot were good lynch targets and as a result "settled" on Robz. But to me it really looks like Galz believed Robz was scum, or at least made it look enough that he really believed Robz to be scum.
Galz post count analysis 61 posts
Pre-game/RVS/fluff - 15
theory - 9
short post/response - 24
unique analysis - 8
question others - 5
His post analysis doesn't jump out at me significantly. I will keep my vote on ashersky.
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Apologies for error, I think it's correct now.
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Why start with Robz's reads? He was killed in a lynch yesterday, and only had time to form the same sort of "accurate" day1 reads we all have. I'm pretty sure that his lynch was pushed because it was convenient for the mafia, not because they were worried peopel would believe his reads.
Now if you want to go back and analyze some of Voltgloss's reads, then I'll buy that they could be a bit more accurate. Scum would be more worried about a player who is making correct reads and would likely factor this into their NK.
Like you said, looking back at volt's reads could be a good idea as well... here they are.
before being chickened his reads were:
shraeye
- I've already said that the "derphammer" comment left me with a nullread. That remains true on a reread.
- Good analysis re: the Archetype-vs.-ashersky question I teed up. Reading my mind in #329.
Robz888
- Jumped on Grujah quickwagon immediately after I started it... but then did not participate in the discussion at all until after I remarked on his being so quiet. Ten minutes later he posts.
- His reply #s 273 and 274 are hedges. Of the self-defeating "I think X but I also rebut it with Y" variety. He says CF is technically right that the chicken curse gives info, BUT also says in my support that we (as town) are unlikely to solve that WIFOM. He suspects Grujah from recent posts, BUT says that could be confirmation bias. He says Eevee and Insom just don't like quickwagons, BUT adds that Insom was scum in the last game he came out against quickwagons. (And then clarifies a few posts later that after reread, his comment didn't apply to Eevee.) So what content could we take away from those posts?
- Reply #284, voting ashersky, is a repeat of his jumping on the Grujah quickwagon. He defends in #291 after being suspected by Galz - "I'm following a literal lynch all lurkers policy" - but then does not participate in subsequent discussion of applying the LaL policy in a more thoughtful way - based on content, not just raw post count. (See #294, #296, #297)
- And then #308? "Hey scums, why so quiet?" When Robz himself is being quiet? When he has not responded to #294, #296, and #297?
- Robz clearly reads my #310 as being suspicious of him specifically. See his #311. A very quick OMGUS-style defensive reaction. Why didn't he give that reaction to Galz or Eevee or CF? Why didn't he engage in the discussion, instead throwing suspicion back at me and/or us? The funny thing is, I was NOT at all certain that I suspected Robz at the time - there were multiple votes on ashersky! - but Robz's kneejerk defensive response feels more like worried scum than indignant town.
Eevee
- There was some original analysis from Eevee with respect to the Grujah quickwagon, but since then I haven't seen a lot else from Eevee other than defending himself and joining others' suspicions (like calling out Robz for blindly following lynch-all-lurkers when Galz had already first made that case). #346 is an example of the kind of fairly minimal content Eevee has provided on others.
yuma
- I tend to agree with the analysis in #343, as mentioned previously.
Galzria
- He may have joined the Grujah wagon "late," but he did so while addressing the discussion up to that point AND participated in further discussion when Grujah appeared (including unvoting Grujah). I'm not seeing that as suspicious.
- Reply #289 - calling out Robz's vote on ashersky as disingenuous, and of scum using "lynch all lurkers" as a policy for their own votes - resonates very strongly with me.
Insomniac
- Jumping on and off the Grujah quickwagon may be odd, but I find it unlikely that scum!Insom would call that level of attention to himself so quickly. Caveat: I could see scum!Insom doing this if his scumbuddy is CF, to set up an early war between the two of them. I don't have a reason currently to think this is a likely pairing; but IF one of them turns out to be scum, I suggest a very hard look at the other one.
- I was not convinced by Insom's arguments as to why it was bad to put Grujah (or anyone) at L-2 early in the Day. But failing to be convinced of someone's arguments does not make them scum. This point reads null to me.
- I find it weird that the "Insom voting CF over a joke-VT claim" issue just sort of petered out after jo/Insom/CF's exchange in reply #s 201 to 205.
ashersky
- First post gives townreads on me, CF, and Robz for "most in-depth posts" - but without further detail or identifying the posts. I find quickbuddying without good explanation slightly suspicious. I've been buddied up by scum enough times to be wary of that as a tactic.
- I don't like the "I gave content, I talked about chickens"-style comment in #318. But then he comes back with reads and analysis in #326. That's the kind of content that's most important for folks to provide.
Captain_Frisk
- People have made comments about the "pause" before he voted the Grujah quickwagon, but that "pause" was like 8 minutes. I also think CF's quick-flip-flop between Insom and Grujah and back to Insom is pretty well explained by CF's own posts. See #s 174 to #179. I'm not seeing those actions of CF's as suspicious.
Grujah
- Started with the lurk, but what content has he provided since then?
- I don't like how in #243 Grujah refers to a post of Eevee's - about the need to move quick and move wagons -and analaysis along - and says "no way a scum would post this." Grujah's analysis just doesn't make sense, and I especially am concerned that its end result is a TOWNread on Eevee (buddying concern) - and a very confident townread.
- Interesting how Grujah resurrects suspicion on Insom in #243 and #250, yet no one bites. I feel like, if Grujah were town, then at least one scum would likely join him in pushing that suspicion (whether Insom is scum OR town). Yet no one did.
- In reply #270, Grujah says Archetype is "judging too much by semantics rather than content." Apparently referring to Archetype's #267. But I don't think Archetype's point there WAS about semantics. I queried whether we should lynch before curse deadline; Grujah said that was scummy and that we need to practice handling chicken communication; Archetype responded that we don't need to practice if we always lynch before curse deadline.
Archetype
- Sheeping Insom in his (Archetype's) first post, joining the vote on shraeye. Says he'll read back to get some good town/scum reads on people. <Did he?> Instead tunnels more on shraeye (see #251) and then unvotes when Shraeye explains (see #259). Then defends himself in #323 and talks about chickens/lurkers generally.
jotheonah
- Nothing has jumped out at me yet. Participation is very low, due to RL (congrats on the job!!) and to issues in other games.
Cuzz
- The flip-flop re: Archetype in response to my question (that yuma pointed out) remains a scumpoint against Cuzz.
- That said, #359 is some good analysis of the Grujah quickwagon.
after being chickened:
Chicken Vote: yuma
Chicken Vote: Galzria
Chicken Vote: Captain_Frisk
Chicken Vote: Archetype
Chicken Vote: ashersky
Chicken Vote: Insomniac
Chicken Vote: Cuzz
Chicken Vote: shraeye
Chicken Vote: Grujah
Chicken Vote: No Lynch jotheonah
Chicken Vote: Eevee
Chicken Vote: Robz888
this post was the day before the lynch deadline. I don't think it changed much over the course of the rest of the day. He votes ashersky; eevee referencing this post Vote: Galzria Grujah, Robz and Insomniac all seem town to me in the end. Add me to the list, and we have a pretty good chance of finding scum tomorrow even if we nolynch like it looks like it's going to be..
from Eevee, #915, and this post Vote: Insomniac
also from eevee, #891, and this post New forum mafia meta - instead of extreme day 1 bussing, extreme day 1 buddying.
from Frisk, #370, as his reasoning with votes for Grujah and Robz mixed into it
Chicken Vote: Eevee
Chicken Vote: Grujah
Chicken Vote: Eevee
Chicken Vote: Robz888
Chicken Vote: Eevee
So it appears he had scum reads on Grujah, Eevee, Robz and ashersky when he was a chicken.
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So I am not complaining that others aren't posting when I am online... because I don't post when others are online as well... but seriously! I have been active in this forum for the past two hours and no one has posted! It is hard to have conversations with people when this happens. And it is like this nearly every night. I just wanted to say that I am finding it a bit frustrating. I don't know if there is a solution to it, but yeah...
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Okay, first chance I've had to read up.
I have to say, I also felt very sure of my Robz vote, even if some don't agree with my rationale. I laid out the case as I saw it, and stuck with it. I did change for the self-vote at one point, which I still see as anti-town, but in the end I felt like I made the right decision. Of course, I woke up the next day and saw the results, which were unfortunate.
On D2 reads, after the NK of Volt, I think looking at his interactions is important. I think he was suspicious of Grujah and Cuzz early, and added Eevee (and me) after being chickened. He was clearly convinced on Robz, from what I could understand of his chicken speak, for the lynch.
I think we should note the "lurkers" from D1, especially Shraeye. I know he had his Monday fun day thing, but before that there was little communication from him. I will say his D2 stuff has been better, so that's a change for the better...or for his rep.
I don't get the Eevee wagon--I haven't gotten a scummy feel from him recently (even with his "I promised to go for Ash" thing and sheeping yuma before yuma even did his analysis -- town Eevee is usually "votes to quickly" Eevee). As has been noted, I had the "odd" hedgy comment which no one liked, about him, but otherwise, Eevee's read town to me. I don't think that's a good lynch.
On D1, I mentioned Grujah and Galz were my biggest town reads. It seems unlikely that both are town though, in retrospect, given our loss of Volt and Robz. Both of them had suspicions of them on D1 at different stages. They were both on the Robz wagon (although I don't think we can use position on the wagon for too much analysis, given the hectic deadline).
D2 reads seem to vary on the two from others, but I lean toward Grujah being town, based on his take on Insom's actions and his various reads so far.
I like Archetype's review of C_F (even if it seems a bit OMGUS-fueled) who I also rank on the scummy side. He was the antithesis of lurker on D1, but didn't offer much, and instead wagon hunted and had others do his work for him. But more than that, his throwaway response to Arch was not helpful at all, and doesn't paint him in a town light.
So, in summary, scum reads are (not in order): C_F, Galzria, Shraeye
town reads: Grujah, Eevee, Arch
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Vote: ashersky He reads scummy to me also on a gut level now.
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I think my main issue with him is his "strong" scum read on Robz when I think--and Robz argued--that it was based on flimsy evidence. It does seem rather forced. His initial vote is based off the voltgloss conspiracy theory, which never held much water for me. He backs it up with "robz completely agreed with insomniac" which was odd, but not necessarily scummy and that Robz did what said scum would do in trying to join a wagon early.
Vote: ashersky
The rest of this case is also good, but this paragraph made me say "Whoa, why am I not voting for ashersky yet?"
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I feel like cases on Frisk are often easy to build, so sometimes discredit them. But I think Archetype's case has some merit.
Frisk, could you explain why I also should be
Not convinced by above case.
You give me no reason to be convinced to agree with you over Archetype here.
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Vote: ashersky
When ash initially made his post against Robz, it did look flimsy. It looked like he is just retelling event's from his own perspective. I think I even noted it was one of the worst cases. I wanted to choose sides at that time (RObz or ash), leaned towards ash vote, but didn't do it. Later I focused Robz for other stuff, which was bad.
What I should have noted about Robz is that all that I did have against him are more or less very similar stuff to what I fakehad against him in MXII with my D2 big posts after lurk. Blrah.
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I will note this happens to me every game it seems. Shraeye and I are alike in this, in that everyone reads us as scummy and we're always town. Like now.
I felt the case on Robz was good, and clearly I wasn't the only one. So I disagree that that is a good reason to vote for me now. I am just the easy target for scum to push, as I look awfully bad after the Robz flip. Honestly, I expected it.
Going to sleep now, so in case I die overnight on the shortest D2 ever, with no claiming or anything, my reads for the town tomorrow:
I reiterate that I think one of Galz and Gruj is town and one is mafia. I lean toward a town Gruj, as mentioned before.
I think Frisk knowingly pushed to have the highest post count to counter the lynch all lurkers f.ds meta, and his non-response to cases on him is scummy.
I found Shraeye's D1 inconsistent with his normal play, in that he posted much less, and much shorter than usual. He's usually analytical and abrasive; he was neither on D1. Sheeping isn't his style, and yet his vote on me looks just like that. So slight scum read there.
I have full town reads on Eevee and Archetype, as mentioned.
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Chicken Vote: Eevee
Chicken Vote: Grujah
Chicken Vote: Galzria
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Chicken Vote: Eevee
Chicken Vote: Grujah
Chicken Vote: Galzria
Dude, I get it. You suspect Eevee, Grujah and Galzria. You've said this.
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Chicken Vote: Eevee
Chicken Vote: Grujah
Chicken Vote: Galzria
Dude, I get it. You suspect Eevee, Grujah and Galzria. You've said this.
Why so jumpy?
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Chicken Vote: Eevee
Chicken Vote: Grujah
Chicken Vote: Galzria
Dude, I get it. You suspect Eevee, Grujah and Galzria. You've said this.
I actually kind of appreciate this. It's nice and simple. I totally lost track of most of what Volt was trying to say
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Chicken Vote: Eevee
Chicken Vote: Grujah
Chicken Vote: Galzria
Dude, I get it. You suspect Eevee, Grujah and Galzria. You've said this.
Why so jumpy?
Wait, I'm jumpy? Because Insom is suspecting other players? Mostly it's because I have read the same message 6 times and am no longer interested in it. I appreciate his simplicity, it's his repetetion that i'm commenting on. If events occur that change his reads, or if it's been a lot of posts since he last gave his reads, I understand. But neither of those has happened.
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This is different from long analasys townshar. vote: shareye
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Vote Count 2.2
ashersky (3): Eevee, yuma, shraeye
Captain_Frisk (1): Archetype
Galzria (1): Insomniac
shraeye (1): Grujah
Not voting (5): Galzria, ashersky, jotheonah, Cuzz, Captain_Frisk
With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.
Currently Cursed: Insomniac
Curse deadline: Friday Oct 26, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
Lynch deadline: Tuesday Oct 30, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
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This game is semi-turbo, so we should get a move on. Deadline is next tuesday!
Nothing has changed for me, except that ashersky's defense felt ok on a gut level, so I would maybe prefer a Galzria lynch.
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This game is semi-turbo, so we should get a move on. Deadline is next tuesday!
Nothing has changed for me, except that ashersky's defense felt ok on a gut level, so I would maybe prefer a Galzria lynch.
Hmm, ashersky's defense felt not ok on a gut level to me actually. I didn't like what felt like an appeal to my emotions in the beginning, when he says that people always suspect asher and shraeye as scummy althought they are town. It feels designed to play off the fact that I'm attracting heat as I always seem to do. But yet at the end of his post #1040 (hah, taxes...) he still posts a scumread on me. So why does he put the part about me being scummy-looking town in the top? That's not his stated opinion of me in this game, that's literally just an argument designed to get me to feel like unvoting.
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@shraeye - and only because you asked nicely.
Vote: Captain_Frisk
Here's why:
He was on both the Grujah and Robz wagon. That should be scummy enough, but no, there's more.
This statement is a scumslip. We don't know that Grujah is town. I don't at least. Being on the RobZ wagon is scummy - but such is life.
Does anyone know what the current vote count is?
Probably not a big deal, but he could be looking for where he can jump on a bandwagon, and hopefully fuel it to a lynch.
Please - The last vote count was 65 posts ago. I asked because I wanted to size up the wagons - and it was nearly lynch time. At least he admits this is weak sauce.
Vote: Archetype Lurking and scummy position on wagon.
That's ironic. I'm in the same position as you were on the Grujah wagon.
False statement. I was 5th on the Grujah wagon. Per vote count 1.11 he was 3rd on joth. Maybe there was some jumping around - but really the lurking was out. Remember? We were all about lynching lurkers in this game after Grujah lurked out a scum victory?
I found it pretty hilarious when he voted for me for the reasons he did. At the time, he didn't post that often by all means, and he called my postion on the jo wagon 'scummy' even though that was the position he was in on the Grujah wagon.
The fact that he still hasn't responded to my comment makes him even more scummy.
Still false.
Robz, fwiw I will hammer you just before the deadline if nolynch is the alternative. I don't like archetype lynch.
Whats your issue with Archetype lynch?
Continues to press a lynch on me. I have a feeling it's because I was one of the few to attack him.
And to answer C_F's question: I don't think Robz likes lynching Town as much as you do.
Continues to press because Eevee doesn't provide reason for not wanting to lynch lurker.
There's plenty of more instances where he has acted scummy and anyone who tried to cross him was inflicted in some way (Volt being chickenized).
I hope I'm not the only one who has noticed Captian_Frisk's general anti-town play.
Specifics please?
I'm pretty sure that I was the first person to try to get us out of RVS by talking about chicken strategy - and while I was out for the weekend, I did my best to help decode Volt / Joth's chicken speak. Nobody seemed to understand the 407 thing etc.
Please note: I don't often make big posts, but when I do, they are serious.
*On a much, much lighter note: I finally figured out what your profile is C_F and how it's not a hat.
Also, looks like I was right on Robz not being the right lynch. Now we're down 2 (!) power roles!
Nothing to respond to.
Vote: Archetype
Bad case is bad and he should feel bad for letting his scumteam down.
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@shraeye - and only because you asked nicely.
Vote: Captain_Frisk
Here's why:
He was on both the Grujah and Robz wagon. That should be scummy enough, but no, there's more.
This statement is a scumslip. We don't know that Grujah is town. I don't at least. Being on the RobZ wagon is scummy - but such is life.
Man I am not usually one to put serious stock in scumslips, but this? Wouldn't have caught it myself but this looks pretty dang incriminating. I will gladly sheep Frisk here.
Vote: Archetype
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@shraeye - and only because you asked nicely.
Vote: Captain_Frisk
Here's why:
He was on both the Grujah and Robz wagon. That should be scummy enough, but no, there's more.
This statement is a scumslip. We don't know that Grujah is town. I don't at least. Being on the RobZ wagon is scummy - but such is life.
Man I am not usually one to put serious stock in scumslips, but this? Wouldn't have caught it myself but this looks pretty dang incriminating. I will gladly sheep Frisk here.
Vote: Archetype
I didn't really think about it either until I actually went to refute the case per Shraeye. I just laughed because I know I'm town and as such any case against me is wrong, regardless of merits.
Thanks Shraeye
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@shraeye - and only because you asked nicely.
Vote: Captain_Frisk
Here's why:
He was on both the Grujah and Robz wagon. That should be scummy enough, but no, there's more.
This statement is a scumslip. We don't know that Grujah is town. I don't at least. Being on the RobZ wagon is scummy - but such is life.
Man I am not usually one to put serious stock in scumslips, but this? Wouldn't have caught it myself but this looks pretty dang incriminating. I will gladly sheep Frisk here.
Vote: Archetype
I didn't really think about it either until I actually went to refute the case per Shraeye. I just laughed because I know I'm town and as such any case against me is wrong, regardless of merits.
Thanks Shraeye
That's what I'm here for man, I'd love to hear about Archetype regarding this. I feel the desire to vote for him but that's dependent on his defense, as I'm super ok with my vote on ashersky right now.
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Chicken Vote: Galzria
Chicken Vote: Robz
Chicken Vote: Robz
Chicken Vote: Robz
Chicken Vote: Robz
Chicken Vote: Robz
Chicken Vote: Robz
Chicken Unvote
Chicken Vote: Captain_Frisk
Chicken Vote: Robz
Chicken Vote: Robz
Chicken Vote: Robz
Chicken Vote: Robz
Chicken Vote: Robz
Chicken Vote: Robz
Chicken Unvote
Chicken Vote: Galzria
Chicken Vote: No lynch.
Chicken Unvote
Chicken Vote: Captain_Frisk
Chicken Vote: No Lynch
Chicken Vote: No Lynch
Chicken Vote: No Lynch
Chicken Vote: No Lynch
Chicken Vote: No Lynch
Chicken Vote: No Lynch
Chicken Unvote
Chicken Vote: Galzria!
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Translation ?
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Galz: 6
Frisk: 6
Galz: 1
Frisk: 6
?
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Insomniac - are you suggesting that its a toss up and you've randomly selected galz?
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Chicken Vote: Galzria
chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken Unvote
chicken chicken chicken.
chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken Vote: Galzria
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Or are you pointing out the order in which we voted for RobZ?
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#994
Eh, I hate being wrong, but there you have it. I stand by my vote 100% - Had Robz actually given us an opportunity to believe his claim was anything more than a last minute ploy at desperation 1 hour before the deadline to sow confusion, then it would've made sense to back down. As it was, it looked like an attempt to throw the town into disarray, causing no lynch or the lynch of a townie.
I still think Grujah is town. I still think insomniac is town. I think we need to refocus on some of the people who weren't around for the deadline and see where they stand now. I'm fairly suspicious of Eevee, for the reasons stated before the lynch. Everybody else I'm mostly neutral on.
#354
All of my votes starting with Insomniac are legit.
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Chicken Vote: Galzria
chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken Unvote
chicken chicken chicken
chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken
chicken
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351?
Post count:
1. shraeye: 12
2. Robz888: 20
3. Voltgloss: 31
4. Eevee: 33
5. yuma: 9
6. Galzria: 25
7. Insomniac: 45
8. ashersky: 12
9. Captain_Frisk: 51
10. Grujah: 30
11. Archetype: 10
12. jotheonah: 7
13. Cuzz: 25
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You want an updated post count?
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Chicken Vote: Captain_Frisk
Chicken chicken.
Chicken Unvote
Vote: No Lynch
Chicken
Chicken Chicken
Chicken Chicken
Chicken Unvote
Chicken Vote:Robz
Chicken Chicken
Chicken Chicken Chicken Chicken Chicken Chicken Chicken Chicken
Chicken Chicken Chicken Chicken
Chicken Unvote
Chicken Vote: Galzria!
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#1022
Vote Count 2.1
Eevee (2): Grujah, shraeye
Grujah (1): Insomniac
ashersky (2): Eevee, yuma
Captain_Frisk (1): Archetype
Not voting (5): Galzria, ashersky, jotheonah, Cuzz, Captain_Frisk
With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.
Currently Cursed: Insomniac
Curse deadline: Friday Oct 26, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
Lynch deadline: Tuesday Oct 30, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
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#284
Lynch all lurkers. Vote: ashersky
You're accusing Galz of lurking?
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Chicken Vote: Captain_Frisk
Chicken!
Chicken Unvote
Chicken Vote: Galzria
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No punctuation!
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It is true that Galz has only posted once on day 2.
Vote: Galzria - but I really like archetype here
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1. shraeye - 42
4. Eevee - 122
5. yuma - 37
6. Galzria - 62
7. Insomniac - 120
8. ashersky - 40
9. Captain_Frisk - 126
10. Grujah - 130
11. Archetype - 32
12. jotheonah - 45
13. Cuzz - 61
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Insomniac, as hard as it might be for you to accept, I am NOT scum. I'm as capable as anybody of making bad reads (See: Volt, M-XIV), and in the case of Robz, c'est la vie. Had he actually claimed PR (didn't even have to say which) back when there was still any semblance of reasonability to the amount of time that was left in the day, he would've been much more credible. But he didn't, and I felt forced to disbelieve his claim. I was wrong. There's not much else I can say about that.
Being wrong on D1 doesn't ruin a game for town. It sucks (omgobvscumslip!), but it's not the end of the world. Focusing in and tunneling like you're doing now on a SECOND bad read would put us in a deep, deep hole.
Even IF you want to assume (wrongly) that I'm scum, then I would ask you to find my "partners" first, because anybody you look to that isn't named "Galzria" will have an infinitely higher chance of being scum than someone who IS named "Galzria".
From my perspective: I think that you're town. I'm almost certain that Grujah is. Eevee is my biggest scum read. If I were to make a list from townie to scummy, it would be as follows:
Galzria
Grujah
Insomniac
Joth
Cuzz
Yuma
Shraeye
Frisk
Ashersky
Archetype
Eevee
Vote: Eevee
I would be willing to lynch any of the top 3. I would lynch but not like the middle 4. I don't like at all lynches on the bottom 3. And I know for a fact that I'm town.
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I gotta say galz - something about that post doesn't sit right with me.
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I gotta say galz - something about that post doesn't sit right with me.
Maybe it was the obvscumslip of "That sucked"? ::)
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What are your feelings on your lower than average post count?
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My feeling on being poster #1 are that I spamed a lot near deadline and that boosted it up by, I would guess, 30?
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Which bring into light the fact that Galz, too, was there, active during deadline, but he posted the least at that chaotic time (me, ins, cf, eevee being way worse).
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Even jo/Volt maybe posted more that that time.
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What are your feelings on your lower than average post count?
The average is 74.2. I'm at 62 in your count. /shrug. Go back and look at all the games I've been in recently - I've been growing sick and tired of having to post 10,000 times because it's "normal" for me. I don't have that amount of time to dedicate to all the games that I'm in. So I play and post when I can, and try to keep a semblance of average. Not "not contributing", but also pulling my weight - something that regardless of my post count, you'll have to agree I more than did (for the worse) in the Robz lynch.
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What are your feelings on your lower than average post count?
The average is 74.2. I'm at 62 in your count. /shrug. Go back and look at all the games I've been in recently - I've been growing sick and tired of having to post 10,000 times because it's "normal" for me. I don't have that amount of time to dedicate to all the games that I'm in. So I play and post when I can, and try to keep a semblance of average. Not "not contributing", but also pulling my weight - something that regardless of my post count, you'll have to agree I more than did (for the worse) in the Robz lynch.
I'm not talking about average relative to other players. Average relative to your high standards.
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What are your feelings on your lower than average post count?
The average is 74.2. I'm at 62 in your count. /shrug. Go back and look at all the games I've been in recently - I've been growing sick and tired of having to post 10,000 times because it's "normal" for me. I don't have that amount of time to dedicate to all the games that I'm in. So I play and post when I can, and try to keep a semblance of average. Not "not contributing", but also pulling my weight - something that regardless of my post count, you'll have to agree I more than did (for the worse) in the Robz lynch.
I'm not talking about average relative to other players. Average relative to your high standards.
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You aren't even in any other running games!
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So whats your take on where to go Galz? Day 2 - we have some info - where is all of the weight you've been pulling today?
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You aren't even in any other running games!
That's not actually true - but suffice it to be close to the truth.
And it's not just the games themselves that I'm active in. And it's not just online-forum stuff that eats my time.
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So whats your take on where to go Galz? Day 2 - we have some info - where is all of the weight you've been pulling today?
I answered this question in both my first two posts this day.
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You aren't even in any other running games!
That's not actually true - but suffice it to be close to the truth.
*coughnoneofthiscough*
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You aren't even in any other running games!
That's not actually true - but suffice it to be close to the truth.
*coughnoneofthiscough*
Well I can't just let falsities go by can I? ;)
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Vote: Captain_Frisk
Here's why:
He was on both the Grujah and Robz wagon. That should be scummy enough, but no, there's more.
This statement is a scumslip. We don't know that Grujah is town. I don't at least. Being on the RobZ wagon is scummy - but such is life.
I wasn't saying you were scummy for voting for Grujah, I said you were scummy for being on both of the bandwagons. The other bandwagon could've been anyone, it would have still be scummy for you to be on it.
Does anyone know what the current vote count is?
Probably not a big deal, but he could be looking for where he can jump on a bandwagon, and hopefully fuel it to a lynch.
Please - The last vote count was 65 posts ago. I asked because I wanted to size up the wagons - and it was nearly lynch time. At least he admits this is weak sauce.
Yep, I know. Probably nothing, just found it when I did a re-read.
Vote: Archetype Lurking and scummy position on wagon.
That's ironic. I'm in the same position as you were on the Grujah wagon.
False statement. I was 5th on the Grujah wagon. Per vote count 1.11 he was 3rd on joth. Maybe there was some jumping around - but really the lurking was out. Remember? We were all about lynching lurkers in this game after Grujah lurked out a scum victory?
Grujah Wagon: Voltgloss, Robz888, Eevee, Captain_Frisk
Robz Wagon: Galzria, Captain_Frisk, Voltgloss, ashersky, jotheonah
I'm going to do a: Fos: C_F
I posted the bandwagon members in the order in which they got on it. Since Voltgloss is now mod-confirmed town, Captain_Frisk seems to be the other likely candidate.
I found it pretty hilarious when he voted for me for the reasons he did. At the time, he didn't post that often by all means, and he called my postion on the jo wagon 'scummy' even though that was the position he was in on the Grujah wagon.
The fact that he still hasn't responded to my comment makes him even more scummy.
Still false.
How?
Robz, fwiw I will hammer you just before the deadline if nolynch is the alternative. I don't like archetype lynch.
Whats your issue with Archetype lynch?
Continues to press a lynch on me. I have a feeling it's because I was one of the few to attack him.
And to answer C_F's question: I don't think Robz likes lynching Town as much as you do.
Continues to press because Eevee doesn't provide reason for not wanting to lynch lurker.
Again. There is a difference between scummy lurking and lurking. You should lynch scummy lurkers. Not lurkers.
There's plenty of more instances where he has acted scummy and anyone who tried to cross him was inflicted in some way (Volt being chickenized).
I hope I'm not the only one who has noticed Captian_Frisk's general anti-town play.
Specifics please?
I'm pretty sure that I was the first person to try to get us out of RVS by talking about chicken strategy - and while I was out for the weekend, I did my best to help decode Volt / Joth's chicken speak. Nobody seemed to understand the 407 thing etc.
You did help out town by translating, but still. Pre being chickened, Volt and you were bashing heads a bit.
Please note: I don't often make big posts, but when I do, they are serious.
*On a much, much lighter note: I finally figured out what your profile is C_F and how it's not a hat.
Also, looks like I was right on Robz not being the right lynch. Now we're down 2 (!) power roles!
Nothing to respond to.
Vote: Archetype
Bad case is bad and he should feel bad for letting his scumteam down.
Nothing to respond to either.
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I like Archetype's review of C_F (even if it seems a bit OMGUS-fueled) who I also rank on the scummy side. He was the antithesis of lurker on D1, but didn't offer much, and instead wagon hunted and had others do his work for him. But more than that, his throwaway response to Arch was not helpful at all, and doesn't paint him in a town light.
what did you like about Arch's case on CF? Do you agree with all of it?
I felt the case on Robz was good, and clearly I wasn't the only one. So I disagree that that is a good reason to vote for me now. I am just the easy target for scum to push, as I look awfully bad after the Robz flip. Honestly, I expected it.
When you wrote this, there were four people voting for you. eevee, me, grujah and shraeye. You have stated that you have town reads on eevee and grujah. So does that mean you think shraeye and I are the scum pushing your wagon?
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Chicken Vote: Eevee
Chicken Vote: Grujah
Chicken Vote: Galzria
Insomniac:
1st chicken question: Did my analysis on Galz influence your read/vote on him at all?
2nd chicken question: In my analysis I basically surmised that Galz wasn't as suspicious to me as ashersky, but that Robz did have a valid point in stating that Galz may have "postured." Is there anything in my analysis that you disagree with? Chicken yes or chicken chicken no
3rd chicken question: If chicken yes, In that post there are 6 quotes. Type the number of chickens that corresponds to the text below the quote if you disagree with my analysis.
Frisk: If you want to answer the above questions as well, I would be interested to hear. But you don't have to respond in chicken.
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Chicken Vote: yuma
Chicken Chicken
Chicken Unvote
Chicken Vote: yuma
Chicken Chicken
Chicken Unvote
Chicken Vote: Galzria
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Also no and no. Had a major work disaster so may not be posting much for a bit.
Cross your fingers for data recovery!
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Vote: Captain_Frisk
Here's why:
He was on both the Grujah and Robz wagon. That should be scummy enough, but no, there's more.
This statement is a scumslip. We don't know that Grujah is town. I don't at least. Being on the RobZ wagon is scummy - but such is life.
I wasn't saying you were scummy for voting for Grujah, I said you were scummy for being on both of the bandwagons. The other bandwagon could've been anyone, it would have still be scummy for you to be on it.
This was my read of it too, but i wanted to see what archetype had to say in case i misread the situation. I'm still not sure who's right inthe argument about position on the wagon, but I don't really buy much into people being 5th on versus 3rd on or whatever. On is on.
However, I don't really care to differentiate between lurking and scummy lurking. Lurking is lurking and it is bad.
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So has anyone else noticed that it is kinda odd that we only have one person cursed today when we are likely to have two cursed players?
What are possible explanations for that? Does it matter?
1-Robz was the chicken target and he died so couldn't be cursed?
2-Both the random and the scum target hit Insomniac?
Voltgloss couldn't have factored into it right? Because his protection was a night action... I wonder if his night action last night will still take effect even though he is dead?
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Or Robz was the random curser.
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Or Robz was the random curser.
That's what I was thinking.
Yuma, I'm interested on your thoughts on the C_F/me case.
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Chicken Vote: yuma
Chicken chicken
Chicken Unvote
Chicken Chicken
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Or Robz was the random curser.
That's what I was thinking.
Yuma, I'm interested on your thoughts on the C_F/me case.
I side more on the side of CF. Your case didn't resonate with me. That is the reason I asked ashersky what he saw in it, because it was lacking to me.
I don't put much stock in voting position. The meta of scum joining the lynch at the 3rd position has been around long enough that scum players know about it, so it is loaded. So I don't agree with either of you there...
I don't know about the scumslip... I have seen enough of those from townie players and from scummy players. On its own they don't mean anything, but added to other scummy behavior they can be pretty damning.
I think ashersky is more scummy than you, but I understand why others are voting for you.
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Or Robz was the random curser.
I thought it was one of the VTs that was a random curser. I think that either a curse hit whoever died at night or they just happened to double up. When random is involved, things sometimes occur...randomly.
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I like Archetype's review of C_F (even if it seems a bit OMGUS-fueled) who I also rank on the scummy side. He was the antithesis of lurker on D1, but didn't offer much, and instead wagon hunted and had others do his work for him. But more than that, his throwaway response to Arch was not helpful at all, and doesn't paint him in a town light.
what did you like about Arch's case on CF? Do you agree with all of it?
I felt the case on Robz was good, and clearly I wasn't the only one. So I disagree that that is a good reason to vote for me now. I am just the easy target for scum to push, as I look awfully bad after the Robz flip. Honestly, I expected it.
When you wrote this, there were four people voting for you. eevee, me, grujah and shraeye. You have stated that you have town reads on eevee and grujah. So does that mean you think shraeye and I are the scum pushing your wagon?
On the Arch position on CF: I agree with the sentiment that Frisk has been more anti-town in his play than usually, and that he tunneled a bit on D1. I went back to re-read (#1017 for reference) and I think he lost something in the way he wrote it, but he's generally on when he says that Frisk was on both wagons, voted for Arch for odd reasons, and CF's lack of answer to his comments.
More than that, the fact that Frisk hadn't responded well to any comments at least up through my post (he did respond to Shraeye) looked bad. His reactions to others was scummy.
On your second question, I think it's very possible that my wagon is town led. I led Robz's lynch as town, after all. I'm the easy target for scum to push, sure, but I could see town doing it. On who of the four on my wagon could be scum, you noted my reads already, and I've mentioned Shraeye as scummish. You were lurky on D1, more active on D2, but you had a V/LA type excuse I think. Your contributions seem to be good, if wrong (on me). And if I'm wrong on Grujah, I'm wrong on Galz, as I still think of them has to be scum.
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More than that, the fact that Frisk hadn't responded well to any comments at least up through my post (he did respond to Shraeye) looked bad. His reactions to others was scummy.
I thought Frisk's response to me was pretty good though. Did you think it was good, or was there something you didn't like about it?
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This game is semi-turbo, so we should get a move on. Deadline is next tuesday!
Nothing has changed for me, except that ashersky's defense felt ok on a gut level, so I would maybe prefer a Galzria lynch.
Hmm, ashersky's defense felt not ok on a gut level to me actually. I didn't like what felt like an appeal to my emotions in the beginning, when he says that people always suspect asher and shraeye as scummy althought they are town. It feels designed to play off the fact that I'm attracting heat as I always seem to do. But yet at the end of his post #1040 (hah, taxes...) he still posts a scumread on me. So why does he put the part about me being scummy-looking town in the top? That's not his stated opinion of me in this game, that's literally just an argument designed to get me to feel like unvoting.
I'll respond on this. The first bit and second bit can be separate, of course. I don't think I'm wrong in what I've mentioned. We've played enough games together. In MX I was the doctor and everyone (even spec QT) was convinced I was scum. That's my meta, I think---town PR that seems scummy. You get a lot of heat for your tone and style, as noted in every game you've played.
My scumread on you is based on the fact that you don't seem the way you normally do. You aren't abrasive and mean this game, yet. (Well, maybe some more recently, yelling at Insom). But definitely not on D1.
So that's why I mention the two. And those are my reads.
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More than that, the fact that Frisk hadn't responded well to any comments at least up through my post (he did respond to Shraeye) looked bad. His reactions to others was scummy.
I thought Frisk's response to me was pretty good though. Did you think it was good, or was there something you didn't like about it?
Not really good, no. It was snarky ("...because you asked nicely..."), full of one-liners with no content ("still false" and "specifics please"), and what was there was just info, not analysis. It ends with his Arch vote, but no real basis other than "scumslip" which I don't ever buy into and "bad argument about me" stuff.
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I don't understand, asher. Why does Frisk's defense of himself need analysis. This is a decent defense, I feel. His "case" on archetype, I agree is bad. I think the only part of his "case" on archetype that sounded good was the scumslip part, but in my mind I read that post a different non-scumslip way. When Archetype responded, I saw that I was correct in my non-scumslip interpretation. So if you ignore the part where he's sending suspicion at Archetype and just focus on Frisk defending himself from Archetype's accusations, it still looks bad?
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There seems to be some confusion about Cursing:
New Mechanics:
All players must read this section. It is a completely new mechanic and you need to know it.
Cursing:
Sea Hags have the ability to Curse and may target any player with this Curse including themselves. Deadlines for cursing will be 3 real life days apart, always taking place at noon PST. Sea Hags may submit their factional Curse at any time by PMing the mods to have it go through at the next deadline. If multiple Sea Hags attempt to Curse at the same deadline only the first received Curse will be used. The thread will occasionally lock during the day to resolve day actions. The Sea Hag faction will be able to Curse a player once per day/night cycle with the ability resetting at the beginning of each day. In addition to the Sea Hag Curse there will be a second Curse in the game from the Curser who will always Curse a player randomly at deadline.
The Sea Hag faction doesn't get to Curse for every deadline. They have the option to, but if they use it and there's another deadline before night falls they have already used up their Curse for the day. The Curser can and will Curse compulsively and randomly at every deadline.
Robz888 was not the Curser. If he was, I would have mentioned it when he flipped. The Curser could be any Fishing Village-aligned player (including Power Roles) except for the Ambassador (so Volt could not have been the Curser).
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I don't understand, asher. Why does Frisk's defense of himself need analysis. This is a decent defense, I feel. His "case" on archetype, I agree is bad. I think the only part of his "case" on archetype that sounded good was the scumslip part, but in my mind I read that post a different non-scumslip way. When Archetype responded, I saw that I was correct in my non-scumslip interpretation. So if you ignore the part where he's sending suspicion at Archetype and just focus on Frisk defending himself from Archetype's accusations, it still looks bad?
I get your point. Ignoring the scum slip thing and the "bad argument is bad" vote at the end, the post looks better, sure. The "position on the wagon" portion is probably the best. Still feels like he could have said more. And of course we can't just ignore the sending suspicion Arch's way thing.
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And of course we can't just ignore the sending suspicion Arch's way thing.
That's true; it's just not good play to say "oh that case on me looked bad...it MUST be because it was scUMMY!!!!" It's true that scum can push bad cases, but they can also build good ones. Sometimes townies push bad cases as well. Making a weak case is just not a strong scumtell inmy opinion.
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Sorry, the last sentence above sounded unclear on second look. I probably should sleep at 4am instead of posting things. Archetype making a case that I think Frisk accurately pointed out, does not make Archetype scummy.
But to try to paint Archetype as scummy simply for making a weak case isn't a good idea. Frisk, is there anything to your Archetype vote other than the "scumslip" and the fact taht he made a bad case?
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Hey guys, just getting caught up. A lot of good cases being made here. shraeye, have you responded to accusations that you're playing differently than normal this game?
Frisk's self-defense reads townish to me.
Other self-defenses, including ash's and Galzria's do not. But I kind of think Galz is probably town anyway - I have a bad history of misreading that guy in both directions.
I want to FoS anyone who was pushing hard for my lynch while a chicken yesterday. It's not that there wasn't good reason to suspect me (or even quasi-policy lynch me on lurker grounds). It's just that on DAY 1, it seems really foolhardy to lynch a person who can't contribute any day-ending helpful information when you have a whole town of non-chicken target to choose from.
Gonna go back and see who those folks were.
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Well that wasn't helpful in the way I was hoping for. The first vote on me was Eevee - he apparently forgot I was a chicken and unvoted when he remembered. The main pusher on that wagon was Robz himself, and the most suspicious vote was Insomniac- who is now a chicken and by my own scruples not the best place to look for scum currently - although we should be weary of a lynch no chickens meta, for obvious reasons.
However, here is an Archetype quote that's relevant:
Did a bit of catching up, not too much for me to say except: I don't think Robz is scum.
I think scum found Robz as an easy bandwagon target and are using that to get him lynched. The same thing was going to happen to Grujah before he responded and the bandwagon got dropped.
I'm going to go back and check the people on the Grujah wagon, and those on the Robz wagon and see if I can find any similarities.
I think this invalidates the "scumslip" claim. He explains why he's looking at those two wagons together.
Speaking of the Robz wagon, the person who loks really bad there, and on mine, is definitely ashersky. In rereading, he came off very scummy. He started the first Robz wagon at 467. And if you have a minute, skim pages 19 and 20 and that weird exchange between ash, Robz, and Eevee.
vote: ashersky
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Well that wasn't helpful in the way I was hoping for. The first vote on me was Eevee - he apparently forgot I was a chicken and unvoted when he remembered. The main pusher on that wagon was Robz himself, and the most suspicious vote was Insomniac- who is now a chicken and by my own scruples not the best place to look for scum currently - although we should be weary of a lynch no chickens meta, for obvious reasons.
However, here is an Archetype quote that's relevant:
Did a bit of catching up, not too much for me to say except: I don't think Robz is scum.
I think scum found Robz as an easy bandwagon target and are using that to get him lynched. The same thing was going to happen to Grujah before he responded and the bandwagon got dropped.
I'm going to go back and check the people on the Grujah wagon, and those on the Robz wagon and see if I can find any similarities.
I think this invalidates the "scumslip" claim. He explains why he's looking at those two wagons together.
Speaking of the Robz wagon, the person who loks really bad there, and on mine, is definitely ashersky. In rereading, he came off very scummy. He started the first Robz wagon at 467. And if you have a minute, skim pages 19 and 20 and that weird exchange between ash, Robz, and Eevee.
vote: ashersky
Hmm you might be right about Arch's "scumslip." I also didn't realize he was referring to the really early Grujah wagon (there were a few). I actually thought there was scum there too regardless of Grujah's alignment. Unvote
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Vote Count 2.3
ashersky (4): Eevee, yuma, shraeye, jotheonah
Captain_Frisk (1): Archetype
Galzria (2): Captain_Frisk, Insomniac
shraeye (1): Grujah
Eevee (1): Galzria
Not voting (2): ashersky, Cuzz
With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.
Currently Cursed: Insomniac
Curse deadline: Friday Oct 26, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
Lynch deadline: Tuesday Oct 30, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
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Thread Locked.
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The townspeople questioned Insomniac the chicken, but could get little of use from him. He just stared at some of the townspeople more fiercely than others and clucked. Eventually they got tired of questioning him and went back to investigating each other.
Insomniac wondered how much longer he was going to be a chicken. Not much it turned out, as he transformed back into a human. He picked up the egg he'd laid and wondered what to do with it. It seemed weird to eat it so he put it down. Ashersky wasn't sure what to do now that he was a chicken so he sat down on the egg Insomniac had placed on the ground and clucked to Insomniac, "Chicken, chicken chicken chicken."
Currently Cursed: ashersky
Curse deadline: Monday Oct 29, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
Lynch deadline: Tuesday Oct 30, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
Thread Unlocked
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YAYAYAYAY I can talk!
So Galz/Grujah/Eevee you are the main persecutors of our cop and I will wholeheartedly only vote within this group today. Call it tunneling or what have you but one of you MUST be scum. perhaps 2.
Galz you charged head first at him and I won't say the case was bad because I definetly understood the case myself I do think you were stupid to continue to push him after he claimed PR in a very believable way. Also there is no excuse for lynching a claim PR day 1 let the night resolve itself.
Grujah - First of all don't tell me to STFU. And this lynching of our cop is all because you have the worst fucking meta about power roles and claiming. You are one of the main contributors to the Robz lynch and I highly suspect you to be scum.
Eevee - I told you not to hammer Robz you didn't listen, your play has been different then normal as town and that reads scum to me. Did I mention you hammered our god damn cop? Or that you hammered our Cop?
Vote: Galzria
Disclaimer: This post was designed for the beginning of day 2, and originally had also targeted Voltgloss. Obviously I was wrong on that front. Next post to contain more updated reads on the 3.
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Galz: Posted ONCE all of day 2 until I voted him based on this and my above case. When I did he came in and posted a bunch. This is a lot like what Grujah did and Galz rightly called him out for in a game we can't currently talk too much about.
Grujah: I actually feel a bit more that he is town now but I'm still very wary of him. A bit more town doesn't mean I have a town read I just dont suspect him as much as I did at the beginning of the day.
Eevee: Has appealed to emotions to get people to unvote him, I don't like this at all so he is still way up on my suspicion list. (Top 2)
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I WAS NOT THE MAIN PERSECUTOR OF ROBZ!!
Ins is still a semi-townread for me. Grujah is a BIG one. Still like my galZ vote!
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also suspect archetype.
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I haven't been posting a lot ANYWHERE Insomniac, this game isn't special. What I called Grujah on in the other game was being FORUM active, but THREAD lurking. The fact is:
A) I'm busy as hell.
B) When I am online, I'm checking 1001 different things.
C) Yeah, I'm a bit put off by Robz' flip, and really don't feel like coming out playing "follow the leader" after the events of D1.
Now, like I said, I simply will not apologize for lynching Robz. It sucked hardcore, but I don't feel unjustified given the way three last ~6 hours went down. I was freaking wrong, but I can't change that. Maybe you think it was stupid of me, and maybe you're right. But I would absolutely play it exactly the same if events unfolded in the same way in a future game.
I think you're absolutely right that the wagon wasn't driven by all town. I've made it clear my top scum read is Eevee. It's where my vote is, and I'm not honestly sure I like much of anyone nearly as much. I absolutely promise you however that lynching me will result in a second town lynch. So I would advise you to have a DAMN good plan going into D3 after I flip and reveal. My lynch is one that very, very easily could be driven by town, so a wagon against me wouldn't be terribly informative. Put another way, if I'm lynched, I would (A) Lynch Eevee, and (B) look at the cross-section of those NOT on my wagon against those ON Robz.
And yes, I realize that your belief that I'm scum will taint anything I say NOW - but once I flip, I want you to have something concrete to go back and review. To you especially Insomniac - if I'm lynched, read what I've said carefully, and think how best to apply it.
Other than all that however, I don't know how much more there is for me to say. I put myself and town in a bad way. But I can't change that, nor do I have the same desire to push like hell today. So... Yeah.
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Do we know for certain ashersky was the random target?
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Do we know for certain ashersky was the random target?
Yes. But we don't know if the mafia also targeted him
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still suspect Galzria.
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Do we know for certain ashersky was the random target?
Yes. But we don't know if the mafia also targeted him
False - the random curser could also be dead?
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False, the random curser is revealed when killed.
Robz888 was not the Curser. If he was, I would have mentioned it when he flipped. The Curser could be any Fishing Village-aligned player (including Power Roles) except for the Ambassador (so Volt could not have been the Curser).
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False, the random curser is revealed when killed.
Robz888 was not the Curser. If he was, I would have mentioned it when he flipped. The Curser could be any Fishing Village-aligned player (including Power Roles) except for the Ambassador (so Volt could not have been the Curser).
Thats what I get for responding without fully catching up.
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It just seems ... convenient. That he was the top wagon and now he's a chicken. And yesterday, chickens such as myself proved (from a mafia perspective) irritatingly hard to lynch. Maybe I'm reading too much into it.
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It just seems ... convenient. That he was the top wagon and now he's a chicken. And yesterday, chickens such as myself proved (from a mafia perspective) irritatingly hard to lynch. Maybe I'm reading too much into it.
I also feel this way, and I'm still keeping my vote where it is. Clearly it's harder for Ash to defend himself now, but I also get a lot of reads based on how people react to others and pressure in general, and now this will be gone (or at least diminished) from ash. This absolutely could have been intentional.
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Speaking of the Robz wagon, the person who loks really bad there, and on mine, is definitely ashersky. In rereading, he came off very scummy. He started the first Robz wagon at 467. And if you have a minute, skim pages 19 and 20 and that weird exchange between ash, Robz, and Eevee.
vote: ashersky
I read this and I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to. Could you please make this case a bit more explicitly?
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Galz: Posted ONCE all of day 2 until I voted him based on this and my above case. When I did he came in and posted a bunch. This is a lot like what Grujah did and Galz rightly called him out for in a game we can't currently talk too much about.
Grujah: I actually feel a bit more that he is town now but I'm still very wary of him. A bit more town doesn't mean I have a town read I just dont suspect him as much as I did at the beginning of the day.
Eevee: Has appealed to emotions to get people to unvote him, I don't like this at all so he is still way up on my suspicion list. (Top 2)
I'm not so hot on Galzria, and not so hot on him posting once before you made a case on him. You made a case on him really early. Like within 1 RL day of the forum unlock, Galz is here and posting at a normal rate I feel. Are you going to say taht 1 post in the first RL day of day 2 was really that scummy We're hardly even 3 full RL days into day 2! This is waaay too little evidence to try to frame Galz up as a lurking scum. this is really a terrible case.
Eevee's situation however has more inherent scumminess in my opinion.
I WAS NOT THE MAIN PERSECUTOR OF ROBZ!!
Ins is still a semi-townread for me. Grujah is a BIG one. Still like my galZ vote!
I also suspect Archetype
Who were the main persecutors of Robz? Why is it so wrong for the hammer of our town-PR to be inspected? Eevee seems really offended to be painted in an anti-Robz light, but he literally was the final nail in his coffin.
Also, the case on Archetype is not good in my opinion, and I have zero suspicion of him. Where does your suspicion come from, Eevee?
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I'm not so hot on Galzria, and not so hot on him posting once before you made a case on him. You made a case on him really early. Like within 1 RL day of the forum unlock, Galz is here and posting at a normal rate I feel. Are you going to say taht 1 post in the first RL day of day 2 was really that scummy We're hardly even 3 full RL days into day 2! This is waaay too little evidence to try to frame Galz up as a lurking scum. this is really a terrible case.
Agh, this is unclear. I mean to say that the case Insomniac makes on him (the fact that Galz posted ONLY once before being suspected and then coming back to respond) is incredibly weak. Insomniac's case came within 1 RL day for the forum unlock, so the all-caps on the word only is ridiculous. Yes, only 1 post in an entire day. It's almost as if...he was busy.
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... So I would advise you to have a DAMN good plan going into D3 after I flip and reveal. My lynch is one that very, very easily could be driven by town, so a wagon against me wouldn't be terribly informative. Put another way, if I'm lynched, I would (A) Lynch Eevee, and (B) look at the cross-section of those NOT on my wagon against those ON Robz.
And yes, I realize that your belief that I'm scum will taint anything I say NOW - but once I flip, I want you to have something concrete to go back and review. To you especially Insomniac - if I'm lynched, read what I've said carefully, and think how best to apply it.
Other than all that however, I don't know how much more there is for me to say. I put myself and town in a bad way. But I can't change that, nor do I have the same desire to push like hell today. So... Yeah.
this seems like something to say at L-1 or L-2 but not at only 2 votes...
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It just seems ... convenient. That he was the top wagon and now he's a chicken. And yesterday, chickens such as myself proved (from a mafia perspective) irritatingly hard to lynch. Maybe I'm reading too much into it.
We could put out a all to day vig him, and the persecute his wagon pushers if he flips town.
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We could. Unless of course, irony or ironies, he turns out to be the Cutpurse.
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It just seems ... convenient. That he was the top wagon and now he's a chicken. And yesterday, chickens such as myself proved (from a mafia perspective) irritatingly hard to lynch. Maybe I'm reading too much into it.
We could put out a all to day vig him, and the persecute his wagon pushers if he flips town.
That would be a great plan for scum to suggest if you knew his wagon pushers are townies (at least one is in me...) Day kill one townie and then push town hard to lynch another townie. But I don't think ashersky is town. So the day vig is worth discussing at least.
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well I guess it doesn't really matter that ashersky is cursed as it appears no one is really going to be talking during the entire time he is cursed...
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I'm starting to think that 1 week days are a little aggressive for games in general.
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1 week is especially aggressive if there is hardly any posting over the weekends.
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So tired, and need to catch up.
What's the vote tally?
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Vote Count 2.3
ashersky (4): Eevee, yuma, shraeye, jotheonah
Captain_Frisk (1): Archetype
Galzria (2): Captain_Frisk, Insomniac
shraeye (1): Grujah
Eevee (1): Galzria
Not voting (2): ashersky, Cuzz
With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.
Currently Cursed: Insomniac
Curse deadline: Friday Oct 26, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
Lynch deadline: Tuesday Oct 30, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
I think nothing has changed after this. Insomniac voted for Galz, but he was already there.
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Chicken vote: CF
chicken
chicken
chicken chicken chicken
chicken
Chicken chicken.
Chicken: unvote
Chicken vote: yuma
chicken
chicken
chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken
chicken
Chicken: unvote
Chicken vote: Galzria
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chicken chicken chicken chicken
Chicken vote: archetype
Chicken vote: eevee
Chicken vote: grujah
Chicken vote: insomniac
Chicken vote: yuma
Chicken vote: jotheonah
Chicken vote: cuzz
Chicken vote: shraeye
Chicken vote: Captain Frisk
Chicken vote: Galzria
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Vote: Galzria
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ash: ? I am guessing you are saying that it would be a bad idea to day vig you? Go figure...
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All of us are posting in the winter-thread and not doing anything here! Not good, not good.
I feel worse and worse about the ashersky lynch as the day progresses. Thoughts on Galzria are still the same though, if it was up to me he'd be hammered asap and we could get on with this game, maybe have a more active tomorrow.
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All of us are posting in the winter-thread and not doing anything here! Not good, not good.
I feel worse and worse about the ashersky lynch as the day progresses. Thoughts on Galzria are still the same though, if it was up to me he'd be hammered asap and we could get on with this game, maybe have a more active tomorrow.
winter thread? what is that?
Like I said in the VLA thread I don't know how much I will be able to post tomorrow. I have my usual work/rotations and then a family halloween party at night. So I will post at some point tomorrow, I just don't know when. And once again, I will not be online during the lynch deadline, but if we are still rolling will get up early to post and cast final vote before heading to rotations.
I am still on board for the ashersky lynch. Eevee what is making you feel worse and worse about it?
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http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5214.0 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5214.0) Not particularly relevant!
Nothing very concrete (in fact the concrete evidence of him not being dead yet is making it slightly more likely he is mafia). It's the wifom of him being chickened and his defenses seeming townlike to me on a gut level, mostly the latter.
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I'm not ok with an ashersky lynch, wouldnt mind a Galz lynch, and prefer a Captain_Frisk.
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I will note this happens to me every game it seems. Shraeye and I are alike in this, in that everyone reads us as scummy and we're always town. Like now.
Rereading and found this gem from ashersky. For the second time today I'll mention that usually I hate going off of scumslips, yet make an exception here. And unlike the Arch one in which I misinterpreted the context, this one seems more black and white. Ashersky is declaring here that he knows shraeye is town in this game. He later in the above post even goes on to put a scumread on shraeye, but that's not even the real issue. Ashersky expressed knowledge of another player's alignment, scum scum scum.
That plus the convenient timing of his bechickening, when yesterday scum certainly noticed how hesitant we were to lynch chickens. And he was on the Robz wagon of course. Deadline is coming up sooner than I realized, so I'll vote: ashersky.
It's been quiet this weekend though, so I want to hear some more discussion before anyone hammers.
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Actually looks like that's still only L-2 since Eevee switched his vote.
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Chicken vote: Cuzz
chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken
chicken
Chicken: unvote
chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken
chicken chicken
Chicken vote: Galzria
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Vote Count 2.4
ashersky (4): yuma, shraeye, jotheonah, Cuzz
Captain_Frisk (1): Archetype
Galzria (4): Captain_Frisk, Insomniac, ashersky, Eevee
shraeye (1): Grujah
Eevee (1): Galzria
With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.
Currently Cursed: ashersky
Curse deadline: Monday Oct 29, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
Lynch deadline: Tuesday Oct 30, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
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Personally I am also happy with my vote on Galz though I would like some more discussion before the hammer deadline tomorrow...
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I'm not ok with an ashersky lynch, wouldnt mind a Galz lynch, and prefer a Captain_Frisk.
Why are you not ok with an ashersky lynch? And how do you feel about an ashersky dayvig?
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I'm not ok with an ashersky lynch, wouldnt mind a Galz lynch, and prefer a Captain_Frisk.
Why are you not ok with an ashersky lynch? And how do you feel about an ashersky dayvig?
Yeah, I was wondering about this too.
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As I see that none else seems to give absence of shar's long analyses nor yuma credit as I do:
vote: ashersky
He case on RobZ seemed to be with that kind of confidence, like he was trying to frame him (that post where he discusses Robz right after first chikcneing).
I'd be ok with dayvig.. thing is, this probably ain't the best time, but if he dies too, we lose another power. What do others say?
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L-1, btw.
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Well, I don't like the Ashersky lynch as much as an Eevee lynch, but it's better than my own, so I have no problems with Vote: PPE:
Ashersky.
Ahem. Hi Grujah.
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((note, that was NOT a vote/hammer))
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I'd be ok with dayvig.. thing is, this probably ain't the best time, but if he dies too, we lose another power. What do others say?
Wait, what do you mean by this? Why would the dayvig die too?
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More nights pass, more chance for dayvig dying.
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Ash is only #4 on my spects list, I don't care one way or the other if he's dayvigged, I don't see myself willing to vote for him while I do find myself willing to vote for Galz/Eevee/Grujah in that order.
@Galz: Well I sure hope that wasn't a hammer...
@Grujah we haven't had talking for a while why are we pushing people to L-1...
@Cuzz he means if the mafia shoot the dayvigger. PPE: Grujah said this now.
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More nights pass, more chance for dayvig dying.
Ahh ok, I see now.
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I.e. i wasted 2 one-shot roles (Aligment switch in bmmmmmmm and a vig in MIV) - both due to being too slow on the trigger and daying before using the power.
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That was not a hammer. We are still at L-1.
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Exactly. When is the next time we're going to have a top scumread who's also a chicken?
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Did asher roleclaim above? 12 chickens followed by 2 is explorer - which is obviously not legal.
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Exactly. When is the next time we're going to have a top scumread who's also a chicken?
Do we know how was he turned into a chicken? Random or mafia? would mafia put themself at such a risk?
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Did asher roleclaim above? 12 chickens followed by 2 is explorer - which is obviously not legal.
He can't be quoting 1202...that doesn't exist :S
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Exactly. When is the next time we're going to have a top scumread who's also a chicken?
Do we know how was he turned into a chicken? Random or mafia? would mafia put themself at such a risk?
We know he was selected randomly for sure...we don't know if mafia cursed him as well or not.
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unvote He was basically on L with that Galz vote.
Let us vig!
As for Galz, only thing I have against him is that he was slow compared to others on day1 deadline, which goes with "mafia overthinks" thing.
Rest of him I find townie.
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unvote cuz I wanna discuss and/or do vig before lynch, don't want an "accidental one".
Also, that thing that I find Galz town is strange cuz I always find him scum, even when I only spec. :D
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I'd be ok with dayvig.. thing is, this probably ain't the best time, but if he dies too, we lose another power. What do others say?
Wait, what do you mean by this? Why would the dayvig die too?
I think he just means that the dayvig'spower is used up. we lose the future use of his power, but not that he'd die.
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I see that i misinterpreted the entire statement. Above post redacted.
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unvote cuz I wanna discuss and/or do vig before lynch, don't want an "accidental one".
Also, that thing that I find Galz town is strange cuz I always find him scum, even when I only spec. :D
This is true. If we were to dayvig asher, we need reasonable discussion about other people first. We'd be left with 1 day to organize a lynch, and that has an extremem chance of being hijacked by mafia-intentions because we will be so high-strung/eager to lynch someone over minor things.
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Ok so let me rehash my Galz case that shraeye incorrectly attributed to being lurky.
Day 2 Galz had all of one post up until I called him a lurker, at which point he showed up and posted abunch before disappearing again (that said we all disappeared for the weekend so I'll shrug that off)
Day 1 he was one of the 4 that got our cop lynched. This consists of Grujah, Voltgloss, Galzria and Eevee. Without these 4 the lynch wouldn't have happened.
Looking at only those 4 we have the knowledge that Voltgloss is town. Grujah (you) have been relatively townie today so I don't really feel like the lynch would properly be directed at you, this doesn't mean I have a town read on you, I still have you high up on my scum list (#3) I just don't find you as good a lynch as Eevee/Galz
Eevee has been acting differently this game than normal and hammered the cop after hedging for the entire lynch deadline. He hasn't given me any reason to change this and has in fact appealed to emotions to get people to unvote as opposed to logic.
Galz perhaps pushed the lynch harder after he saw it was a roleclaim but after he pushed it he completely disappeared from the conversation even though he was online the entire time the deadline creeped up. He gave Grujah town credit where I don't think any was deserved however others disagree here, and when I tried to get myself lynched in place of the cop he also gave me town credit which probably didn't help me trying to get myself lynched.
On the day 2 lurky-ness when Galz was called out he came and posted a bunch, this is what you did Grujah in MXI as scum. Now I do NOT think any of you are excusable for lynching our cop on day 1, you just don't lynch a claim PR day 1, the mafia will end up shooting him, if not this is a closed setup, if he claimed and got counterclaimed well getting a mafia for 2 townies is a hell of a deal (in the worst case scenario), now we don't get that AND we don't get a cop.
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Ok so let me rehash my Galz case that shraeye incorrectly attributed to being lurky.
Day 2 Galz had all of one post up until I called him a lurker, at which point he showed up and posted abunch before disappearing again (that said we all disappeared for the weekend so I'll shrug that off)
Day 1 he was one of the 4 that got our cop lynched. This consists of Grujah, Voltgloss, Galzria and Eevee. Without these 4 the lynch wouldn't have happened.
Looking at only those 4 we have the knowledge that Voltgloss is town. Grujah (you) have been relatively townie today so I don't really feel like the lynch would properly be directed at you, this doesn't mean I have a town read on you, I still have you high up on my scum list (#3) I just don't find you as good a lynch as Eevee/Galz
I still don't get your insistence about what happened Day2. This is the "lurker" bit I was talking about. I don't think Galz was ever lurking, you just saw he hadn't posted in a day, called him out, and then got suspicious when he started posting. It still sounds to me like somebody who was busy one day, and then not busy after that.
The deal with him lynching the cop is reason for suspicion. I don't have a townread on him, but Galz is far from my scummiest read.
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Well, let me help you to another town lynch then Insomniac. Vote: Galzria.
That's L-1. Someone feel free to hammer.
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Well, let me help you to another town lynch then Insomniac. Vote: Galzria.
That's L-1. Someone feel free to hammer.
...Umm Unvote
We aren't just doing that because I think we should people have 'hammered' ashersky and if he is town we have a flip to go on.
@shraeye also his defenses have felt scummy.
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Galz perhaps pushed the lynch harder after he saw it was a roleclaim but after he pushed it he completely disappeared from the conversation even though he was online the entire time the deadline creeped up. He gave Grujah town credit where I don't think any was deserved however others disagree here, and when I tried to get myself lynched in place of the cop he also gave me town credit which probably didn't help me trying to get myself lynched.
This is a good summary of the only bit I find scummy about Galzria. I do recall now that he was the person who pointed out Robz made a "different claim before" and pushed super hard for "LYNCH ALL LIARS!" Even though we had talked about town PRs being super careful not to claim needlessly. Robz tried to follow our advice, and then changed his mind. That's not something I want to policy-lynch over. The fact that there was no counterclaim, yet you were pushing really hard to lynch does come off as terrible.
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Well, let me help you to another town lynch then Insomniac. Vote: Galzria.
That's L-1. Someone feel free to hammer.
Morgrim, is that you?
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@shraeye he claimed PR, if we had let him live then either
a) Mafia NK'd him -- problem solved
b) He had to explicit claim day 2, if he's counter claimed we have a 1-1 or 2-1 scenario which is awesome for town both ways. And if it was 1-1 town is laughing because we ALSO have a cop read on another scum or a confirmed town.
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Galz perhaps pushed the lynch harder after he saw it was a roleclaim but after he pushed it he completely disappeared from the conversation even though he was online the entire time the deadline creeped up. He gave Grujah town credit where I don't think any was deserved however others disagree here, and when I tried to get myself lynched in place of the cop he also gave me town credit which probably didn't help me trying to get myself lynched.
This is a good summary of the only bit I find scummy about Galzria. I do recall now that he was the person who pointed out Robz made a "different claim before" and pushed super hard for "LYNCH ALL LIARS!" Even though we had talked about town PRs being super careful not to claim needlessly. Robz tried to follow our advice, and then changed his mind. That's not something I want to policy-lynch over. The fact that there was no counterclaim, yet you were pushing really hard to lynch does come off as terrible.
/shrug
Whatever. I've explained myself. If you don't want to listen that's your problem and you can enjoy another town flip when you lynch me.
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Well, let me help you to another town lynch then Insomniac. Vote: Galzria.
That's L-1. Someone feel free to hammer.
WTH with this game and selfvoting... argh.
Close to voting for you for trying this, seems like a scumbluff. I did consider you town, but Ins's lurk-accusations have merrits, and at least that post sounds honest. Maybe we can agree on ash daykill and galz daylynch.
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regarding Eevee, there is a lot I don't like.
Eevee has been acting differently this game than normal and hammered the cop after hedging for the entire lynch deadline. He hasn't given me any reason to change this and has in fact appealed to emotions to get people to unvote as opposed to logic.
His hammer of a claimed cop was ridiculous. He hasn't really defended himself with logic and has used emotional appeals, which sounded scummy to me. This is another reason I have town-leanings on Galzria, because of Eevee's willingness to lynch him.
Ins is still a semi-townread for me. Grujah is a BIG one. Still like my galZ vote!
Also, Eevee ducked this question from me
Also, the case on Archetype is not good in my opinion, and I have zero suspicion of him. Where does your suspicion come from, Eevee?
I'm willing to vote: eevee. I still am ok with the ashersky lynch, I just want us to find possible alternatives so that we could allow day-vig to hit ashersky.
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@shraeye he claimed PR, if we had let him live then either
a) Mafia NK'd him -- problem solved
b) He had to explicit claim day 2, if he's counter claimed we have a 1-1 or 2-1 scenario which is awesome for town both ways. And if it was 1-1 town is laughing because we ALSO have a cop read on another scum or a confirmed town.
I don't entirely understand what you mean by this. Are you saying it was bad for Robz to explicitly claim cop? I agree. Are you saying it was bad for us to lynch a claimed PR on Day1? I agree. It feels like you're trying to correct a misconception I'm having, but I'm not clear what that could be.
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Hmm, I had a townish read on Galz that is rapidly disintegrating with each new post.
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Robz888 (7): ashersky, Galzria, Voltgloss, jotheonah, Grujah, Captain_Frisk, Eevee
Ok so here is the lynch of Robz.
Ash - First on, not a scummy position traditionally as your starting a wagon with no one else on it, that doesn't mean he didn't do it and just wasn't super successful, however he pretty much stayed on since RVS (I think I haven't checked but I think thats the case on him?)
Galz - See my previous posts for this case.
Volt - Confirmed Town
jotheonah - has been lurkier than normal claimed new job, claimed new job hadn't started till this week, somewhat scummy
Grujah - See above posts for case on Grujah
Captian_Frisk - I don't like that he lynched Robz but I have a town read on Friskies this game.
Eevee - Herp derp hammer with hedges see my above posts for the actual case..
So looking at that 7 (6 because Volt is town). We can pretty much assume at least one scum would have lynched Robz, probably 2. Whom do you think is scum from it.
Additional comment on Galzria - as scum he likes to shoot people in the same group as him (Volt was in the same group as him) because it gives him WIFOM opportunities. Additionally Volt/Robz/Jo probably can read Galz the best due to the large number of games played with him and Volt died. Volt seems like a best of both worlds NK for Galz.
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@shraeye he claimed PR, if we had let him live then either
a) Mafia NK'd him -- problem solved
b) He had to explicit claim day 2, if he's counter claimed we have a 1-1 or 2-1 scenario which is awesome for town both ways. And if it was 1-1 town is laughing because we ALSO have a cop read on another scum or a confirmed town.
I don't entirely understand what you mean by this. Are you saying it was bad for Robz to explicitly claim cop? I agree. Are you saying it was bad for us to lynch a claimed PR on Day1? I agree. It feels like you're trying to correct a misconception I'm having, but I'm not clear what that could be.
Robz did NOT claim cop, he claimed GENERIC POWER ROLE. So we wouldn't have a real claim chance for counterclaims unless he lived to day 2
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And yet here's another magical WIFOM case for you Insomniac:
I'm scum who planned on killing Volt and using WIFOM to claim "I wouldn't kill in my own grouping"! BUT, KNOWING you would think I would say that, I choose to NOT make that argument at all!
...
Or, you know, I could simply just be town who had nothing to do with NK's whatsoever, so haven't made any cases regarding them because they're irrelevant to me.
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And yet here's another magical WIFOM case for you Insomniac:
I'm scum who planned on killing Volt and using WIFOM to claim "I wouldn't kill in my own grouping"! BUT, KNOWING you would think I would say that, I choose to NOT make that argument at all!
...
Or, you know, I could simply just be town who had nothing to do with NK's whatsoever, so haven't made any cases regarding them because they're irrelevant to me.
I agree you absolutely could be town, you're my number 1 scumread this game and I NORMALLY read you as town so it's weird to have a scum read on you. I just can't get behind how you've defended yourself this game. Would you mind giving a rundown of your feelings on ALL other players, if you're town and lynched/killed then it'll be useful tomorrow.
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@shraeye he claimed PR, if we had let him live then either
a) Mafia NK'd him -- problem solved
b) He had to explicit claim day 2, if he's counter claimed we have a 1-1 or 2-1 scenario which is awesome for town both ways. And if it was 1-1 town is laughing because we ALSO have a cop read on another scum or a confirmed town.
I don't entirely understand what you mean by this. Are you saying it was bad for Robz to explicitly claim cop? I agree. Are you saying it was bad for us to lynch a claimed PR on Day1? I agree. It feels like you're trying to correct a misconception I'm having, but I'm not clear what that could be.
Robz did NOT claim cop, he claimed GENERIC POWER ROLE. So we wouldn't have a real claim chance for counterclaims unless he lived to day 2
Ah, thanks I did misrecall that. I remember now.
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And yet here's another magical WIFOM case for you Insomniac:
I'm scum who planned on killing Volt and using WIFOM to claim "I wouldn't kill in my own grouping"! BUT, KNOWING you would think I would say that, I choose to NOT make that argument at all!
...
Or, you know, I could simply just be town who had nothing to do with NK's whatsoever, so haven't made any cases regarding them because they're irrelevant to me.
I agree you absolutely could be town, you're my number 1 scumread this game and I NORMALLY read you as town so it's weird to have a scum read on you. I just can't get behind how you've defended yourself this game. Would you mind giving a rundown of your feelings on ALL other players, if you're town and lynched/killed then it'll be useful tomorrow.
I've already said what I wanted to. It's all there in my super-lurking posts today. You know the ones - the ones I didn't make until you called me out for only posting once during the first real life day of Day 2.
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Robz888 (7): ashersky, Galzria, Voltgloss, jotheonah, Grujah, Captain_Frisk, Eevee
So looking at that 7 (6 because Volt is town). We can pretty much assume at least one scum would have lynched Robz, probably 2. Whom do you think is scum from it.
ashersky--i find scummy, case stated before. would lynch
galzria--his extra push to lynch robz after he claimed PR was odd. His lurking day 2 was not an issue. A very neutral read with minor suspicion cancelling out minor town-reads.
joth--don't have much of a feel for him in this game. Normally that jumps out to me as something suspicious, but for somereason, I have a pleasant town-feel from him, though I'd be really hardpressed to quote the posts that make me feel this way.
grujah--fairly neutral on this dude too.
Frisk--Frisk I am suspicious of. His late-comer status to the wagon is suspicious (I don't recall if he voted before/after the claim shenanigans, but if it was after I would increase this factor in his overall read). He did try to send some suspicion at Archetype after I thought Arch made a reasonable case on Frisk. Frisk's defense didn't sound bad as well though, outside of the suspicion he gave Archetype simply for making it. But I'm not feeling the contributions from him, and am in general getting a slight scum-read.
eevee--eevee is very suspicious, as I'vepointed out before.
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Here ya go Insomniac, since going back 5 pages might be too difficult and all, I've pulled the quotes for you:
Eh, I hate being wrong, but there you have it. I stand by my vote 100% - Had Robz actually given us an opportunity to believe his claim was anything more than a last minute ploy at desperation 1 hour before the deadline to sow confusion, then it would've made sense to back down. As it was, it looked like an attempt to throw the town into disarray, causing no lynch or the lynch of a townie.
I still think Grujah is town. I still think insomniac is town. I think we need to refocus on some of the people who weren't around for the deadline and see where they stand now. I'm fairly suspicious of Eevee, for the reasons stated before the lynch. Everybody else I'm mostly neutral on.
Insomniac, as hard as it might be for you to accept, I am NOT scum. I'm as capable as anybody of making bad reads (See: Volt, M-XIV), and in the case of Robz, c'est la vie. Had he actually claimed PR (didn't even have to say which) back when there was still any semblance of reasonability to the amount of time that was left in the day, he would've been much more credible. But he didn't, and I felt forced to disbelieve his claim. I was wrong. There's not much else I can say about that.
Being wrong on D1 doesn't ruin a game for town. It sucks (omgobvscumslip!), but it's not the end of the world. Focusing in and tunneling like you're doing now on a SECOND bad read would put us in a deep, deep hole.
Even IF you want to assume (wrongly) that I'm scum, then I would ask you to find my "partners" first, because anybody you look to that isn't named "Galzria" will have an infinitely higher chance of being scum than someone who IS named "Galzria".
From my perspective: I think that you're town. I'm almost certain that Grujah is. Eevee is my biggest scum read. If I were to make a list from townie to scummy, it would be as follows:
Galzria
Grujah
Insomniac
Joth
Cuzz
Yuma
Shraeye
Frisk
Ashersky
Archetype
Eevee
Vote: Eevee
I would be willing to lynch any of the top 3. I would lynch but not like the middle 4. I don't like at all lynches on the bottom 3. And I know for a fact that I'm town.
I haven't been posting a lot ANYWHERE Insomniac, this game isn't special. What I called Grujah on in the other game was being FORUM active, but THREAD lurking. The fact is:
A) I'm busy as hell.
B) When I am online, I'm checking 1001 different things.
C) Yeah, I'm a bit put off by Robz' flip, and really don't feel like coming out playing "follow the leader" after the events of D1.
Now, like I said, I simply will not apologize for lynching Robz. It sucked hardcore, but I don't feel unjustified given the way three last ~6 hours went down. I was freaking wrong, but I can't change that. Maybe you think it was stupid of me, and maybe you're right. But I would absolutely play it exactly the same if events unfolded in the same way in a future game.
I think you're absolutely right that the wagon wasn't driven by all town. I've made it clear my top scum read is Eevee. It's where my vote is, and I'm not honestly sure I like much of anyone nearly as much. I absolutely promise you however that lynching me will result in a second town lynch. So I would advise you to have a DAMN good plan going into D3 after I flip and reveal. My lynch is one that very, very easily could be driven by town, so a wagon against me wouldn't be terribly informative. Put another way, if I'm lynched, I would (A) Lynch Eevee, and (B) look at the cross-section of those NOT on my wagon against those ON Robz.
And yes, I realize that your belief that I'm scum will taint anything I say NOW - but once I flip, I want you to have something concrete to go back and review. To you especially Insomniac - if I'm lynched, read what I've said carefully, and think how best to apply it.
Other than all that however, I don't know how much more there is for me to say. I put myself and town in a bad way. But I can't change that, nor do I have the same desire to push like hell today. So... Yeah.
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@Galz. It's not too hard to go back 5 pages. It's that in 5 pages your reads might change its not like there hasn't been any real conversation in these 5 pages. I don't think I've ever seen you be hostile under pressure. Not sure what to make of it
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Vote: Eevee
Galz is hostile which I've never seen from a town Galz under pressure before but I could see it as he doesn't like the lurk point on him. I would have voted him without the lurk point but it was something curious to me.
Also Eevee was in here and didn't say anything. There is definetly things to talk about
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Does anyone not voting for ashersky want to comment on my case here?
This reads really really suspicious to me but I'm not sure if anyone noticed it. Am I crazy or is this something? I think ashersky chickenposted that I was misinterpreting him, but of course that's the only way for scum to defend a perceived scumslip.
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Actually Insomniac, I was just as hostile in M-III, M-IV, and M-VI, although I'll admit you got NK'd N1 in most of those, so you probably wouldn't have noticed.
More to logic though: Look, I've rolled scum twice so far on these forums in normal games. Both of those games I took MVP and led my team to victory. How? By playing a behind-the-scenes manipulative scum. I cared about my image and how people perceived me in the game.
As town, I don't give a ****. I play my game, make my reads, and push my cases. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. Yeah, it's frustrating as hell to be seen as scummy for pushing bad cases because I KNOW that if I'm lynched in turn for it, town is even worse off than they were, being then down 2 lynches. Honestly, what it comes down to, is that for me to be scum, you'd have to believe I played a piss poor game, drawing that amount of attention to myself D1. And if my record means ANYTHING at all, you should know that I'm not that bloody terrible. Town Galz makes mistakes. Scum Galz is flawless.
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Actually Insomniac, I was just as hostile in M-III, M-IV, and M-VI, although I'll admit you got NK'd N1 in most of those, so you probably wouldn't have noticed.
More to logic though: Look, I've rolled scum twice so far on these forums in normal games. Both of those games I took MVP and led my team to victory. How? By playing a behind-the-scenes manipulative scum. I cared about my image and how people perceived me in the game.
As town, I don't give a ****. I play my game, make my reads, and push my cases. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. Yeah, it's frustrating as hell to be seen as scummy for pushing bad cases because I KNOW that if I'm lynched in turn for it, town is even worse off than they were, being then down 2 lynches. Honestly, what it comes down to, is that for me to be scum, you'd have to believe I played a piss poor game, drawing that amount of attention to myself D1. And if my record means ANYTHING at all, you should know that I'm not that bloody terrible. Town Galz makes mistakes. Scum Galz is flawless.
Man I hate hate hate defenses like this. "I play like X as scum. I'm currently playing like Y. Ergo I cannot be scum." If you have what you feel is an established scum meta, why would scum-you continue to play that way? Scum-you probably wouldn't; he would probably shake up his style a bit and try to throw people off.
I'm not trying to use that "meta is useless because anyone can completely change their style at any time" argument. That's not what I believe. But the argument that someone under suspicion cannot be scum because they act differently as scum is worthless when that argument comes from that person himself.
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Actually Insomniac, I was just as hostile in M-III, M-IV, and M-VI, although I'll admit you got NK'd N1 in most of those, so you probably wouldn't have noticed.
More to logic though: Look, I've rolled scum twice so far on these forums in normal games. Both of those games I took MVP and led my team to victory. How? By playing a behind-the-scenes manipulative scum. I cared about my image and how people perceived me in the game.
As town, I don't give a ****. I play my game, make my reads, and push my cases. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. Yeah, it's frustrating as hell to be seen as scummy for pushing bad cases because I KNOW that if I'm lynched in turn for it, town is even worse off than they were, being then down 2 lynches. Honestly, what it comes down to, is that for me to be scum, you'd have to believe I played a piss poor game, drawing that amount of attention to myself D1. And if my record means ANYTHING at all, you should know that I'm not that bloody terrible. Town Galz makes mistakes. Scum Galz is flawless.
Man I hate hate hate defenses like this. "I play like X as scum. I'm currently playing like Y. Ergo I cannot be scum." If you have what you feel is an established scum meta, why would scum-you continue to play that way? Scum-you probably wouldn't; he would probably shake up his style a bit and try to throw people off.
I'm not trying to use that "meta is useless because anyone can completely change their style at any time" argument. That's not what I believe. But the argument that someone under suspicion cannot be scum because they act differently as scum is worthless when that argument comes from that person himself.
That's nice that you think that and all, but you're wrong.
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I will say Galz that that is true of your meta but with the skill average in this game pretty high I definitely think you would roll scum differently. HOWEVER I have trouble seeing self vote as a scum ploy you would use but I have seen you use it as town.
Anyways to prevent this post from growing super long, I still have a scum read on you Galz, but I'm more happy with an Eevee vote right now.
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THREAD LOCKED
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ashersky sits sadly on the egg he has been sitting on since he became a chicken.
jotheonah and Grujah stand nearby looking at ashersky. "I'm just glad I'm not a chicken anymore," says jotheonah. "It was awful."
"Well I hope I never become one," said Grujah. "We've got to get to the bottom of these Curses before it happens to me."
Sadly they do not get to the bottom of it before this happens to Grujah, as jotheonah and Grujah transform into chickens. ashersky turns human again and his weight no longer keeps the egg warm, but instead crushes it.
"Looks like the yolks on you, ashersky!" someone observes from the town to raucous laughter.
ashersky goes home to change his pants, but he's glad to be human again.
Currently Cursed: jotheonah, Grujah
Curse deadline: Thursday Nov 1, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
Lynch deadline: Tuesday Oct 30, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
Thread unlocked...
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I will say Galz that that is true of your meta but with the skill average in this game pretty high I definitely think you would roll scum differently. HOWEVER I have trouble seeing self vote as a scum ploy you would use but I have seen you use it as town.
Anyways to prevent this post from growing super long, I still have a scum read on you Galz, but I'm more happy with an Eevee vote right now.
It's a better vote than one on me is - at least it has a chance of hitting scum, and I've said myself since the day began that Eevee is my biggest scum read out of yesterday.
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I will say Galz that that is true of your meta but with the skill average in this game pretty high I definitely think you would roll scum differently. HOWEVER I have trouble seeing self vote as a scum ploy you would use but I have seen you use it as town.
Anyways to prevent this post from growing super long, I still have a scum read on you Galz, but I'm more happy with an Eevee vote right now.
It's a better vote than one on me is - at least it has a chance of hitting scum, and I've said myself since the day began that Eevee is my biggest scum read out of yesterday.
He's been my second behind you all day.
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chicken vote: ashersky
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Vote: Eevee
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Well, Mr. Cutpurse, you missed your window. : (
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Well, Mr. Cutpurse, you missed your window. : (
...? You mean chicken right...?
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Chicken chicken, chicken chicken.
Bad Chicken! Bad! FTFY!
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It is the duty of all players to know whether or not they have been Cursed or not. Curses will be posted in BOLD BLUE LETTERS so they should be very noticeable. If a player who has been Cursed speaks in a way that is not in keeping with these rules than they are a Talking Chicken. Talking Chickens are an abomination and must be punished. The punishment will be determined by the mod, but could result in Talking Chickens being modkilled.
jotheonah's punishment is pending while I think about what it will be.
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Man I'd be choked to be cursed twice like Jo has been. That said I remember things being silly to not be able to say as a chicken so I'd like to propose an addendum to the chicken speak.
When you want to quote a post vote for yourself first (or no lynch if your at l-1) then each line should be read as intended
IE
Chicken vote: Insomniac
chicken
chicken chicken
chicken chicken
chicken unvote
Is a quote of post 1022.
Vote: Eevee
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Chicken chicken. Chicken.
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Talking Chickens are an abomination, in the sight of mod. They are hated (link) (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Hated) by all.
In addition to his current role. jotheonah will be Hated until the next Curse deadline. It will take one less vote to lynch him should it come up.
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Chicken chicken. Chicken.
Jo can you please quote whom your responding to. As far as I can tell this is you saying
No. Yes.
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Chicken chicken.
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Ok that was a no to me.
What I mean is that if you are responding to someone the protocol is to chicken vote for them in case your response might be ambiguous.
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Ok that was a no to me.
What I mean is that if you are responding to someone the protocol is to chicken vote for them in case your response might be ambiguous.
He's being stubborn and angry at being chickened again, I believe.
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Ok that was a no to me.
What I mean is that if you are responding to someone the protocol is to chicken vote for them in case your response might be ambiguous.
He's being stubborn and angry at being chickened again, I believe.
Understandable. It was frustrating for me.
That said Grujah/Jo which was the mafia target
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There is 11 people still alive and the random curser can't roll itself so that means if jo is not the random curser
He had a 1/10 chance of being randomly rolled here.
Now I tend to believe that Voltgloss was the first target of the curse and that Jo while some people have expressed a town read on him has been lurky which means he is a weak choice for the second target as well.
Thusly I PERSONALLY think that Jo has been the random target twice and that gives us
Randomly Cursed (in order of occurence)
Jotheonah
Insomniac
Jotheonah
and
Targeted Curse (in order of occurence)
Voltgloss
Grujah
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Ok that was a no to me.
What I mean is that if you are responding to someone the protocol is to chicken vote for them in case your response might be ambiguous.
He's being stubborn and angry at being chickened again, I believe.
Understandable. It was frustrating for me.
That said Grujah/Jo which was the mafia target
My guess here would be Jo=Mafia chicken. Although the random odds of hitting him at each roll are the same as anybody, I could just very well see a Sea Hag strategy that locks onto the first /random chicken and then tries to frame him. As I think that our belief that Joth = Random and Volt = planned D1 is accurate, I am inclined to believe Grujah = random and Joth = planned today.
I could be completely off however and Joth could be scum who cursed himself both days. But the above would be my best guess.
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HEY EEVEE I see your online....get in here.
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Seriously? No one is gonna talk we're just gonna deadline out?
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Here now. Some IRL trouble.
I don't know what to tell you Insomniac. Are you saying I should have led it slide to nolynch? I was asking for advice from everyone at the time.
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Here now. Some IRL trouble.
I don't know what to tell you Insomniac. Are you saying I should have led it slide to nolynch? I was asking for advice from everyone at the time.
...I was telling you over and over that no lynch was better...Or even still lynch me, you didn't listen and hammered our cop.
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Here now. Some IRL trouble.
I don't know what to tell you Insomniac. Are you saying I should have led it slide to nolynch? I was asking for advice from everyone at the time.
...I was telling you over and over that no lynch was better...Or even still lynch me, you didn't listen and hammered our cop.
I thought you insisting on getting yourself lynched was so unreasonable it sort of made me care less about your other points. I don't remember if you ever explicitly said you think I should nolynch, but fair enough, I guess it was implied. It's weird, because even though you are on the opposite ends of the spectrum in the robz-matter, I kind of disagree with you both. Agree more with you than Galzria obviously.
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Ok that was a no to me.
What I mean is that if you are responding to someone the protocol is to chicken vote for them in case your response might be ambiguous.
He's being stubborn and angry at being chickened again, I believe.
Understandable. It was frustrating for me.
That said Grujah/Jo which was the mafia target
My guess here would be Jo=Mafia chicken. Although the random odds of hitting him at each roll are the same as anybody, I could just very well see a Sea Hag strategy that locks onto the first /random chicken and then tries to frame him. As I think that our belief that Joth = Random and Volt = planned D1 is accurate, I am inclined to believe Grujah = random and Joth = planned today.
I could be completely off however and Joth could be scum who cursed himself both days. But the above would be my best guess.
I agree with this theory.
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Here now. Some IRL trouble.
I don't know what to tell you Insomniac. Are you saying I should have led it slide to nolynch? I was asking for advice from everyone at the time.
...I was telling you over and over that no lynch was better...Or even still lynch me, you didn't listen and hammered our cop.
Agreed. No lynch is better. I'm going to go check to see how long you waited from "ask for advice" and "hammer."
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Vote Count 2.5
ashersky (4): yuma, jotheonah, Cuzz, Grujah
Captain_Frisk (1): Archetype
Galzria (4): Captain_Frisk, ashersky, Eevee, Galzria
Eevee (2): shraeye, Insomniac
With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.
Currently Cursed: jotheonah, Grujah
Curse deadline: Thursday Nov 1, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
Lynch deadline: Tuesday Oct 30, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
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Hey Galz you have a chance to tie your wagon in size with Eevees if you move your vote, what say you? Vote for your number 1 scum read?
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Here now. Some IRL trouble.
I don't know what to tell you Insomniac. Are you saying I should have led it slide to nolynch? I was asking for advice from everyone at the time.
...I was telling you over and over that no lynch was better...Or even still lynch me, you didn't listen and hammered our cop.
I thought you insisting on getting yourself lynched was so unreasonable it sort of made me care less about your other points. I don't remember if you ever explicitly said you think I should nolynch, but fair enough, I guess it was implied. It's weird, because even though you are on the opposite ends of the spectrum in the robz-matter, I kind of disagree with you both. Agree more with you than Galzria obviously.
Vote: Eevee There is just so much bad.
Here's eevee asking if he should really hammer.
Eevee is at 4, I tihnk.
Though, why am I falling for Robz trap to go from him into quicklynch?
Vote: Robz
I trust you are town. Should I agree to hammer Robz even if I think his claim is pretty plausible?
And here's him 7 minutes later hammering
Vote: Robz
Lets roll the dice.
Oh, and that's not the worst. Here's eevee saying no lynch is better than townie lynch.
We only have 20 minutes left...you can still lynch me
You are not playing to your wincon buddy. No lynch is better than than a townie lynch, isn't it?
And here's Insomniac saying that Eevee shouldn't lynch, and Eevee treating this point like it's reasonable, instead of ignoring it as Eevee said in the first quote in this post.
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Vote: Galzria Grujah, Robz and Insomniac all seem town to me in the end. Add me to the list, and we have a pretty good chance of finding scum tomorrow even if we nolynch like it looks like it's going to be..
Oh and here's you saying Robz seems town to you 19 minutes before hammering
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So no lynch is better than townie lynch, Robz seems town to Eevee, yet Eevee still hammers...? I'm now dedicated to lynching Eeve.
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What in the world?
a) I hammered 3 minutes 10 seconds before the deadline.
b) Insomniac wasn't asking me to nolynch. He was asking me to lynch himself, someone I strongly (and he even more strongly I would imagine) felt was town. Never did he say I should nolynch rather than lynch Robz.
c) I explained it yesterday. My gut felt like Robz was town, but my brain said scum Robz would be able to / could be playing me like a puppet. Grujah and Ins were my two biggest townreads and nolynch is bad. I decided to go for Robz.
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So no lynch is better than townie lynch, Robz seems town to Eevee, yet Eevee still hammers...? I'm now dedicated to lynching Eeve.
Town doesn't know other people's alignments. Robz felt towny to me, but he was less of a townread than Grujah or Insomniac, the alternatives.
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Eevee don't do it
Scum lynch>VT Lynch>No Lynch>PR lynch>IC Lynch
I rest my case.
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Eevee don't do it
Scum lynch>VT Lynch>No Lynch>PR lynch>IC Lynch
I rest my case.
As I said, you trying to make us lynch yourself made listening to reasonable points like this rather hard.
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But I don't know, in retrospect / with more time.. maybe I wouldn't have hammered. I don't know.
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But I don't know, in retrospect / with more time.. maybe I wouldn't have hammered. I don't know.
...I'm not sure I get what your saying here.
In retrospect you can see 20/20 so your saying maybe you wouldnt have but maybe you would have hammered the town cop?
Also Eevee I was super frustrated that people were gonna lynch a PR its the stupidest thing a town can do day 1.
Beyond the shadow of a doubt if someone claims a PR on day 1 there is no point in lynching them and its ridiculous to think otherwise so because the town was going to lynch a PR I wanted out of the game.
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Chicken vote: ashersky
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Yea I get it Jo, you won't listen to any cases, contribute meaningfully or vote anywhere other than where you have your vote when you become a chicken.
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But I don't know, in retrospect / with more time.. maybe I wouldn't have hammered. I don't know.
...I'm not sure I get what your saying here.
In retrospect you can see 20/20 so your saying maybe you wouldnt have but maybe you would have hammered the town cop?
Also Eevee I was super frustrated that people were gonna lynch a PR its the stupidest thing a town can do day 1.
Beyond the shadow of a doubt if someone claims a PR on day 1 there is no point in lynching them and its ridiculous to think otherwise so because the town was going to lynch a PR I wanted out of the game.
If I got to play the spot again, without the knowledge of Robz's flip but with more time and a clearer head. I meant to say I'm still not 100% it was even a mistake. Maybe it was, but the thing is, with no doctors Robz was as good as dead anyways if he is the cop, so it's certainly a lot different than the same situation with protective roles.
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He didn't claim cop eevee he claimed generic PR, so why lynch him.
If he's a real PR mafia have incentive to kill him. If they don't on day 2 he full claims and risks being counterclaimed. There is no scenario where lynchiing Robz makes more sense than lynching him. None.
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Ugh.
There is no scenario where lynching Robz makes more sense than letting him live. None*
*Unless you are Mafia.
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Hey Galz you have a chance to tie your wagon in size with Eevees if you move your vote, what say you? Vote for your number 1 scum read?
Sorry, went for a run, just caught up. I would absolutely lynch my #1 scum read: Vote: Eevee.
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Frisk just mentioned he'd lost power and was disappearing in V/LA thread. Is anyone (else?) in the path of Sandy and expecting to disappear due to power outages? I am considering extending things for this.
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Frisk just mentioned he'd lost power and was disappearing in V/LA thread. Is anyone (else?) in the path of Sandy and expecting to disappear due to power outages? I am considering extending things for this.
Still have power for now. Doubt it will go out at this point but it's possible.
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Anybody else up for an Eevee lynch?
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Okay, was able to catch up on this. Let me first say, it sucks being chickened. Hard to communicate, even with the system we've set up.
Reading through, here are two things that stuck out to me:
1 -- The Eevee vs. Insom thing reads town on town to me. I don't see the Eevee case as strong, and with Shraeye really pushing it (tunnelling, even), I suspect it even more. Insom reads town, I've thought Eevee read town up to now, so I don't know where that wagon is headed, but I'm not really comfortable with it.
2 -- Grujah made a few good points that didn't get discussed before he got chickened--in 1154, he points out that he's getting no traction on the Shraeye case he's made (and I've mentioned before): namely that Shraeye is posting completely differently than his usual style, with no long, analytical posts that we've come to expect. No response to that. In 1182, he refers to Galzria's self-vote as a "scumbluff," which I think is a spot-on read there.
I've got a few posts on me to respond to as well.
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Anybody else up for an Eevee lynch?
I'd prefer ashersky based on behavior today, but Eevee was my biggest scumread D1 and did hammer our cop, so yes I can support this.
Vote: Eevee
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Cuzz tried to make a scum slip argument against me, which helped Cuzz's scum level rise. I'll quote the supposed slip here:
I will note this happens to me every game it seems. Shraeye and I are alike in this, in that everyone reads us as scummy and we're always town. Like now.
I think it was clear to everyone else that the "like now" is referring to myself, especially as I've mentioned Shraeye seems scummy because he's not reading scummy (or mean). I've consistently had a scum read on Shraeye this game, and have mentioned it multiple times. Cuzz has admited previously, this game even, that going off of "scumslips" is terrible. You're misreading me, possibly intentionally?
Further to that, I referenced this point and how this happens to me (and Shraeye's possibly scumminess) in my post 1101:
This game is semi-turbo, so we should get a move on. Deadline is next tuesday!
Nothing has changed for me, except that ashersky's defense felt ok on a gut level, so I would maybe prefer a Galzria lynch.
Hmm, ashersky's defense felt not ok on a gut level to me actually. I didn't like what felt like an appeal to my emotions in the beginning, when he says that people always suspect asher and shraeye as scummy althought they are town. It feels designed to play off the fact that I'm attracting heat as I always seem to do. But yet at the end of his post #1040 (hah, taxes...) he still posts a scumread on me. So why does he put the part about me being scummy-looking town in the top? That's not his stated opinion of me in this game, that's literally just an argument designed to get me to feel like unvoting.
I'll respond on this. The first bit and second bit can be separate, of course. I don't think I'm wrong in what I've mentioned. We've played enough games together. In MX I was the doctor and everyone (even spec QT) was convinced I was scum. That's my meta, I think---town PR that seems scummy. You get a lot of heat for your tone and style, as noted in every game you've played.
My scumread on you is based on the fact that you don't seem the way you normally do. You aren't abrasive and mean this game, yet. (Well, maybe some more recently, yelling at Insom). But definitely not on D1.
So that's why I mention the two. And those are my reads.
Last point to respond to was Frisk asking about my claim, to which the above quote is relevant:
Did asher roleclaim above? 12 chickens followed by 2 is explorer - which is obviously not legal.
12 followed by 2 is "generic power role," not explorer, per Volt's guide (explorer is four chickens). It was Volt's suggestion, which I agree with given his confirmed towniness, that we don't claim specific roles if the Pearl Diver is still alive. I was at L-2 at the time, and headed offline for awhile. Of course, no one noted it until 10 hours later.
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Chicken Vote: Insomniac
chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken Unvote
Chicken vote: ashersky
chicken
chicken chicken
chicken chicken chicken chicken
chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken
chicken chicken
Chicken Unvote
Chicken vote: Grujah
Chicken vote: Voltgloss
Chicken
Chicken unvote
Chicken unvote
Chicken vote: ashersky
chicken
Chicken unvote
chicken vote: ashersky
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finally here, haven't caught up fully, but will shortly...
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and there is a lot less than I expected to read.
I am still in favor of an ashersky lynch.
Galz's selfvote I don't like... especially after jot's yesterday getting him out of a lynch--I don't know if jot is scum or not, but I have had and still have a townier read on him despite this selfvote, but regardless he selfvoted earlier and people backed off. Now Galz used this today, as town? as mafia? Seems more scumlike to me. I think it was Insomniac who mentions that Galz has used this tactic in the past as town--I specifically remember MIII, where it did backfire on Galz helping him get lynched that day. But since then fDS has created a meta of not lynching selfvoters and I think Galz knows this.
However, I still think the actual case, meta aside, is stronger on ashersky, but if that wagon doesn't progress I see Galz as a good backup that I could be willing to join.
I would put Archetype next on my list, perhaps even above Galz, but it might be hard to create a wagon on him late in the game. His absence as well as his forced case on Frisk is reeking of scummy lurking.
Eevee... is a tossup for me. As one who wasn't around during the lynch deadline and only read the thread from a 20/20 point of view, it is apparent to me that town was in a tough spot late day 1. Eevee was in a tough spot as really the only person online who had to decide to hammer or send town into a nolynch. If he is town that is a rough place to be. If he is mafia, that is a pretty golden place to be. Because as mafia he has a selfmade excuse to hammer. I want to give eevee a pass on this for now, but have a hard time doing so. As such, I think Eevee is a potential candidate for scum and for a lynch, but I think the above options in arch, ash and galz are more optimal for lynching scum today.
As for the others... Frisk, shraeye and cuzz are kinda in limbo. They aren't super town reads, but aren't people I would vote for today. All three will need a good reread tomorrow if they are still alive.
I read Insomniac and jot more town.
So in conclusion, I am keeping my vote on ashersky... oh and Grujah I think chickenvoting Voltgloss is in violation of the rules... as he is a dead player. I think it would be the same as chickenvoting a made up name...
I will be on for the next little bit doing homework and then will wake up early and post before heading to rotations.
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Chicken Vote: yuma
chicken chicken
Chicken Unvote
Chicken vote: Grujah
Chicken vote: Voltgloss[/b]
Chicken
Chicken unvote
Chicken unvote
Chicken vote: ashersky
chicken
Chicken unvote
chicken vote: ashersky
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Chicken unvote
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Chicken vote: Eevee
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Guys.. I'm a generic power role. That's actually what made me hammer Robz in the end - with me being one of the power roles, his claim was a little less likely to be true.
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Ash claimed generic pr....
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So Eevee/Ash/Volt/Robz...town drove a wagon on THREE PR's? not buying it.
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Note there are only 4 PR's so you have to belive that in 2 days time town has driven huge wagons on THREE out of FOUR PR's.
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Should I claim what exactly I am?
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And yeah, I don't know if ashersky is lying or not, and I saw a good chance that Robz was lying, so I know what you mean.
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Well, chicken.
I'm a Fushing Village, so no counter-claim here. Dunno what to think about Eevee/Ashersky since they were my #1  scum reads respectively.
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Chicken vote: Cuzz
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While I doubt they're both telling the truth... Ugh.
Vote: Archetype for only having 35 posts this game. Yuma and Ashersky are at least in the mid-high 40's. Most everybody else is actively participating.
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If both ash/eevee are power roles, then we've already jacked up the game with our unbelievable bad luck. My sheer optimism demands that at least one of them be lying. Eevee's supplied reason of being more willing to hammer since chances of truthful PR were lower makes me lean back towards lynching ashersky.
vote: ashersky
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((And yes Yuma, I realize scheduling and timezones aren't conducive to conversational posts from you, so you get a lot of "summary posts". You're still almost half again what Archetype has posted)).
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Chicken Vote: shraeye
Chicken chicken.
chicken unvote.
Chicken vote: Cuzz
Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
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Guys, do you really think ashersky lying is the best we've got? Lynching power roles no fun business.
I'm for Galzria, shraeye or Cuzz lynches.
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Chicken chicken chicken chicken
chicken
chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken
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Joth, are you voting Cuzz over this post?:
Anybody else up for an Eevee lynch?
I'd prefer ashersky based on behavior today, but Eevee was my biggest scumread D1 and did hammer our cop, so yes I can support this.
Vote: Eevee
That was the L-2 vote on a now claimed PR, correct? If it was a different post/reason, chicken the #.
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chicken chicken.
Chicken unvote.
Chicken vote: Archetype
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Guys, do you really think ashersky lying is the best we've got? Lynching power roles no fun business.
I'm for Galzria, shraeye or Cuzz lynches.
gah. unvote
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I'm trying to speak chicken but it doesn't work.
Joth chicken question: were you unhappy with my vote on ashersky, or my reasoning for it (1 for vote, 2 for reason, 3 for other)
Joth chicken question: are you suspicious of cuzz, archetype or both (4 for cuzz, 5 for archetype, 6 for both, 7 for neither)
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chicken
chicken chicken
chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken
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Vote Count 2.6
ashersky (2): yuma, Grujah,
Captain_Frisk (1): Archetype
Galzria (3): Captain_Frisk, ashersky, Eevee
Eevee (2): Insomniac, Cuzz
Archetype (2): Galzria, jotheonah
Not voting (1): shraeye
With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.
Currently Cursed: jotheonah, Grujah
Curse deadline: Thursday Nov 1, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
Lynch deadline: Tuesday Oct 30, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
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I don't have time to do a big response now (phone posting), I'll have to do it tommorow, but:
Not ok with an ashersky lynch.
Fine with a Galzria or Eevee lynch, the case on them is convincing.
More keen on a C_F lynch. My read on him hasn't changed at all.
I saw some stuff about claiming, can't counter-claim anyone, I'm a FV.
Jo being cursed...again. I don't think it's the random voter twice, pretty sure Mafia just wants him shutup. What were his reads pre-chicken\post-chicken? I know one of the post reads is a scum read on me, but I don't know of any others.
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so my waking up early turned into a horror flick when I woke to discover my pillow drenched in blood... yeah not the first thing you want to discover early in the morning.
So I am typing a very short post and then off to the emergency clinic before school.
I want to hear from insomniac regarding the power role claims especially, but my thoughts on this are that lynching a claim power role day 1 is very different from lynching a claimed power role day 2 or day 3. What are our two roles left? Cutpurse and Pearl Diver? Hmmm...
As it stands I would believe eevee's claim over ashersky's claim, although it is possible for both to be telling the truth, but as others have pointed out is a bit unlikely. So I still prefer an ashersky lynch over an eevee lynch, but from the looks of it, that isn't going to happen.
I will change my vote to a vote: archetype
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@yuma it's me that pointed out it's unlikely nboth are telling the truth. While I'm not ok with it day 1 I am ok with it Day 2. it is a closed setup though which means it's probably not the best as a counterclaim surely kills mafia.
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One of asher / eevee is lying. I counterclaim.
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vote: ashersky.
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vote: ashersky
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vote: ashersky
You don't think it's more likely Eevee? Will vote ashersky now though if people prefer it.
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One of asher / eevee is lying. I counterclaim.
You could also be the liar, attempting to get us to lynch those two first, straight up endgaming town. (I'm not saying I don't believe you, just that it's not clear cut).
What we DO know, is that there's at least one (probably just one) scum amongst Eevee/Ashersky/Frisk.
On an individual level, I still find Eevee the scummiest. However I also find his claim to be slightly more believable than Ashersky.
Ashersky also has the fact that he was chickened at a time when it looked like we were going to trust all chickens (at the very least not lynch them).
Of the three, I think Ashersky has the highest chance of being a lie, but I'm willing to lynch Eevee off base scumminess as well. CF I think will have to wait until another day, or hopefully he'll be able to prove his claim.
Have any of you three breadcrumbed that you are a PR?
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Three roles left though. Ambassador, Cutpurse and pearl diver.
If no more claims we can assume all of us are truthful?
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No
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havent breadcrumbed. dont think frisk is lying.
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Three roles left though. Ambassador, Cutpurse and pearl diver.
If no more claims we can assume all of us are truthful?
Volt was Ambassador.
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@Eevee Volt was ambassador.
Vote: Eevee
I think we need actual names from Eevee/Ash and CF can counterclaim the relevant one.
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Three roles left though. Ambassador, Cutpurse and pearl diver.
If no more claims we can assume all of us are truthful?
Volt was Ambassador.
Ohno. Hmm.
vote: ashersky
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I don't like this one bit.
People are stuck in the Volt method of claiming which while good is completely useless in a counterclaim scenario, we need to know who is counterclaiming who that way its a 1-1 scenario.
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so i should claim?
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Do NOT CLAIM.
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I agree. Generic 2 to 1 is terrible. Is Ashersky around? Deadline is looming, and I DON'T want another final hour scenario.
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we need to maintain WIFOM overnight regarding which one of us can hide / kill.
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listen to your heart. lynch asherskyyy.
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I agree. Generic 2 to 1 is terrible. Is Ashersky around? Deadline is looming, and I DON'T want another final hour scenario.
I should say: I agree with Insomniac. We need this to be 1-1, not generic 2-1.
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I do not foresee myself voting for a PR without having a 1-1 scenario.
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Unvote
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Without claims it's too easy for the liar to counterclaim the living member tomorrow.
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Ugggh. I got a read on Eevee's role earlier, and now I have a read on CF as well. I have no read on Ashersky though. What's the votecount? I don't want to hammer anybody just yet.
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ash is at l-2, 4 votes.
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Ugggh. I got a read on Eevee's role earlier, and now I have a read on CF as well. I have no read on Ashersky though. What's the votecount? I don't want to hammer anybody just yet.
Ash is at 4 your at 2, (CF and Eevee were both on you)
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Ugggh. I got a read on Eevee's role earlier, and now I have a read on CF as well. I have no read on Ashersky though. What's the votecount? I don't want to hammer anybody just yet.
BE QUIET.
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Ash claimed when he was a chicken...of course his seems less believable. I would say I trust Frisk 90%, Eevee 30%, ash 25%.
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For all of the noise asher now regarding nobody noticing his "claim", he didn't try really to point it out. I'm viewing it now as a desperation claim assuming he was going to be lynched.
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Ash claimed when he was a chicken...of course his seems less believable. I would say I trust Frisk 90%, Eevee 30%, ash 25%.
The thing about Eevee... Is he was willing to actually claim his role right after claiming PR - no thought of a counter-claim... Or at least, no worry of one. Which makes me think his PR claim is true(r).
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Chicken Vote: Insomniac
chicken
Chicken Unvote
Chicken Vote: ashersky
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Still L-2 Grujah was already on ash.
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Chicken vote: ashersky
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Alright, I'm willing to vote for ash.
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With Jo thats L-1.
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Anyone oppose a hammer? The day is over in 3.5 hours so we do have a bit of time.
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With Jo thats L-1.
Alright, I'm willing to vote for ash.
3.5 hours to go, right? We should wait for Ashersky to respond if possible... Although outside of actually forcing claims, I don't know what would change.
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chicken unvote
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chicken
chicken chicken
chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken
chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken
vote: ashersky
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Chicken Vote: ashersky
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Exactly - it doesn't really matter if you wait for a "full" claim from him, all that will do is force eevee or I to counter claim it. I propose that neither eevee or I do so. If asher is town, then eevee is scum, and we can fight that out tomorrow if eevee fails to kill me.
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Also - if I die - and after eevee is lynched - I would look strongly at the people who were in favor of full claiming. I wouldn't be blinded by it - given that joth rolefished like a mofo in MXII.
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Frisk I've laid out my reasons pretty clearly. If asher is town then one of you/Eevee just 2-1'd us Which is a 3-1 trade. I don't like those.
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I agree with you, but claiming isn't going to fix that.
Remember that from my perspective its 1-1.
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Frisk I've laid out my reasons pretty clearly. If asher is town then one of you/Eevee just 2-1'd us Which is a 3-1 trade. I don't like those.
It's worse than that. Say we're wrong today, AND tomorrow, that's two mislynches + two NK's before we get to go after the liar. That's a 4-1 loss. If we're lucky and guess right tomorrow, then it's 3-1. It's bloody ugly either way if we lynch wrong today without any claims.
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if we mislynch twice in a row then we're at lylo and you'll be thankful that we have someone guaranteed to be scum.
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If we force claims, then you allow mafia to know who is safe to kill tonight.
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If we force claims, then you allow mafia to know who is safe to kill tonight.
I'm not saying we should. I'm saying we're F'ing ourselves if we don't and then mislynch. Once is bad, twice would be terrible. But I'm hopeful we won't mislynch at all.
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Chicken vote: Frisk
CHICKEN.
Chicken unvote
Chicken vote: ashersky
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That of course, assumes that asher is scum. If he flips town, scum will know everything they need.
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That of course, assumes that asher is scum. If he flips town, scum will know everything they need.
This is the problem. If he is town then were just f'd because there was no sims. If he is town then you both live because scum has 50/50 to win
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Chicken vote: Archetype
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That of course, assumes that asher is scum. If he flips town, scum will know everything they need.
This is the problem. If he is town then were just f'd because there was no sims. If he is town then you both live because scum has 50/50 to win
Not true - we're at 11 alive now, correct?
Mislynch asher today - 10
town NK - 9
mislynch me tomorrow - 8
town NK - 7
That's still 4 on 3. At that point you'll know that eevee is scum
lynch eevee - 6 (4 v 2)
town NK - 5 (3 vs. 2) - lylo.
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That of course, assumes that asher is scum. If he flips town, scum will know everything they need.
This is the problem. If he is town then were just f'd because there was no sims. If he is town then you both live because scum has 50/50 to win
Exactly. If Ash is lynched and flips town, CF is assuming that scum would kill the remaining PR - but why in the world would they? They've got a guaranteed kill of a VT, and it leaves us not knowing which of the two remaining claimants is telling the truth and which is lying. If they kill the remaining PR, they out their own liar.
So I come back to: If we don't lynch correctly, and don't claim, we're F'ing ourselves. If we DO lynch correctly and don't claim we're in great shape. I don't like not claiming and forcing a 1-1, but I do see the value in it. It'a just a bloody tough pill to swallow knowing we may be digging our own graves when we have the opportunity to force a scum lynch at worst by tomorrow (making the odds 50/50 today instead of worrying about a mislynch and 50/50 tomorrow)
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This actually really interesting. Forcing claims today will prevent mislynch tomorrow, but will guarantee that the cutpurse dies tonight.
if asher is town - then we absolutely want the claims. If asher is scum, we don't. Because i believe asher is scum, I'm willing to chance it.
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Chicken! Chicken chicken chicken!
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so - from a neutral observer - and completely discounting claim orders:
No claim:
1/3 chance of lynching scum today
Success - 2/8 chance to lynch tomorrow - with at least 1 confirmed townies
Fail - 1/2 chance to lynch tomorrow
Claim
1/2 chance of lynching scum today
Success - 2/9 chance to lynch tomorrow
Fail - 100% chancel to lynch tomorrow.
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Vote Count 2.7
ashersky (3): Grujah, Captain_Frisk, Eevee
Captain_Frisk (1): Archetype
Galzria (1): ashersky
Eevee (1): Cuzz
Archetype (3): Galzria, yuma, jotheonah
Not voting (2): shraeye, Insomniac
With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.
Currently Cursed: jotheonah, Grujah
Curse deadline: Thursday Nov 1, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
Lynch deadline: Tuesday Oct 30, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
Please confirm your votes are in the correct place. I say this because I don't have the same vote count as you guys.
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This actually really interesting. Forcing claims today will prevent mislynch tomorrow, but will guarantee that the cutpurse dies tonight.
if asher is town - then we absolutely want the claims. If asher is scum, we don't. Because i believe asher is scum, I'm willing to chance it.
This is exactly what I'm teetering on. Town Ash = claiming good. Scum Ash = claiming bad.
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STOP!
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I just realized there is no possible world in which ashersky is lying. Explain post coming
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jorbles, your numbers are way wrong.
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jorbles, your numbers are way wrong.
I noticed that immediately. Apologies. Is your vote in the right place?
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Assume ashersky is lying. That means 1 of Eevee/CF is the cutpurse and the other is the pearl diver. This is fine so far. However the town consensus WAS to shoot ashersky yesterday while cursed. Once that consensus had been reached BOTH of CF and Eevee had been online BEFORE the curse came off. Therefore if one of Eevee/CF is the cutpurse they defied towns request and DIDN'T shoot ash. That doesn't make sense from a town standpoint.
This leads me to conclude that Ashersky SHOULDN'T (95/100 times) be the liar.
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I trust Frisk more than Eevee.
Vote: Eevee
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Stop fishing via different means insomniac.
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so - from a neutral observer - and completely discounting claim orders:
No claim:
1/3 chance of lynching scum today
Success - 2/8 chance to lynch tomorrow - with at least 1 confirmed townies
Fail - 1/2 chance to lynch tomorrow
Claim
1/2 chance of lynching scum today
Success - 2/9 chance to lynch tomorrow
Fail - 100% chancel to lynch tomorrow.
So if we claim and fail, we lose three town (both PR's) and a scum by D4 start. That's worst case. Best case is we succeed, and lose 1 town PR, 1 scum by D3 start.
If we don't claim, best case is we succeed in the lynch, losing 1 PR tonight and 1 scum by D3 (best best case is scum targets a hidden PD). Worst case is 2 mislynches + 1 correct lynch D4 + 3 NK's = 5 dead town (both PR's), 1 dead scum by D5 start.
Correct?
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I agree with Frisk, I don't think town actually came to the cutpurse consensus. That sounds super fishy.
I'm sticking with my initial read.
Vote: ashersky
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Insomniac, neither eevee nor I were voting asher yesterday - if either of us is the cutpurse, its perfectly reasonable that we wouldn't have struck.
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My vote is in the right place jorbles.
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Chicken vote: Insomniac
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Joth - i agree that insomniac is being crazy here, but I don't see heads down better than lynching asher, who is > 50% scum for me right now.
Eevee's 2nd claim might have been brilliant "draw out the other PR" claim, but I doubt it. I don't recall any f.ds instance where scum were actively doing such crazy stuff.
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Well Jo has gone retarded. I guess I'll sheep Frisk and hope for the best since no one wants to listen to logic today.
Vote: ashersky
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Chicken vote: Insomniac
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Chicken vote: ashersky
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THREAD LOCKED
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ashersky (6): Grujah, Captain_Frisk, Eevee, shraeye, Insomniac, jotheonah
Captain_Frisk (1): Archetype
Galzria (1): ashersky
Eevee (1): Cuzz
Archetype (2): Galzria, yuma
ashersky had only just changed his pants when he heard a knock at the door.
"One second," he shouted.
Instead of patiently waiting whoever was visiting him started knocking really loudly. Really really loudly, like they were trying to break the door down. ashersky looked out the window. The whole town was there, and they were trying to break the door down!
"Uh oh," he gulped.
He opened the window and shouted, "Guys you shouldn't kill me! I have a really compelling reason why you shouldn't! Remember when you killed Robz, that went terribly! It's basically the same thing. We should all become pacifists."
ashersky's shouts were indiscernible to most of the villagers who couldn't hear them over the sound of kicking the door and their own shouts, but they were enough to draw the attention of a couple of the villagers, one who walked over and pulled ashersky out the window onto the street.
"Didn't you hear me?" shouted ashersky, "Pacifism is the answer! Pacifism is the answer!"
The town did not agree.
ashersky, the Sea Hag, has been killed.
Currently Cursed: jotheonah, Grujah
Enjoy night people. Night actions are due in by 11 am tomorrow. We'll start d3 noon tomorrow. (All times in PDT. +3 for forum time).
Thread still locked
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Day 3 Start
The townspeople celebrated in a night of revelry the death of Ashersky and the end of the Sea Hag curse. When they woke in the morning for a hangover brunch without chicken products in it (fried anchovies for all!) they noticed that there was an empty chair at the table.
They assumed that there was simply a townsperson who hadn't been willing to rouse himself out of bed. So they traipsed over to his hut to wake him up. They got no reply so they stepped inside.
In the doorway of the house was a doll filled with pins. As they opened the door they found a small room with a pile of wallets and purses strewn about, face down in the middle of the room was a corpse with holes in its body where the pins entered the doll.
Captain_Frisk, the Fishing Village-aligned Cutpurse, has been killed.
Not Voting (9): Grujah, Eevee, shraeye, Insomniac, jotheonah, Archetype, Cuzz, Galzria, yuma
With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
Currently Cursed: jotheonah, Grujah
Curse deadline: Thursday Nov 1, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
Lynch deadline: Tuesday Nov 6, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
Thread Unlocked
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I'm dissapointed Eevee didn't save Frisk.
I THINK I'm wrong about Galz because ash was voting for Galz when the day ended and when Galz was very close to self destructing, similarily I think Galz would have been more keen to bus his buddy under the suspicion Galz has. So I'm gonna go look at ash's interactiosn day 1 as well.
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Meh, mafia didn't get WIFOM'd. :(
I guess... vote: shraeye or Ins.
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CHICKEN
FTFY
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OK ash's fos/votes and other notes (he had a lot of fluff/chicken talk)
Day 1
FOS: shraeye.
Mentions Grujah being lurky
Vote: shraeye
Vote: Robz
Asks where Grujah/yuma are
Near deadline mentions Robz/Jo/Grujah could gain traction
Vote: Jotheonah
Vote: Robz
Day 2
Town Reads: Grujah/Eevee/Arch
Vote: Galzria (3rd vote)
Lists suspicions towniest to scummiest archetype<eevee< grujah<insomniac<yuma< jotheonah< cuzz< shraeye<Captain Frisk<Galzria
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Meh, mafia didn't get WIFOM'd. :(
I guess... vote: shraeye or Ins.
Grujah, the Talking Chicken, is now hated (only 4 votes are needed for lynching a hated player). Penalties for this offense will escalate with each breaking of it. Grujah's hated status will not be lifted until someone dies.
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Meh, mafia didn't get WIFOM'd. :(
I guess... vote: shraeye or Ins.
Terrible guess. Tell me the reason why you think this vote is right.
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Now, I suspect with the list ash gave on day 2 we can assume that he would have put one scum buddy low and one high
arch?<town<gruj?<insom(town)<yuma?<joth?<cuzz?<shraeye?<town<Galz?
I suspect therefore that arch or grujah is scum from the low end. I don't think ash would have put his scum buddy on the very bottom as thats super suspicious post flip, and his interactions with grujah strike me as one that would happen between a player who rolled his first scum roll. Therefore
Vote: Grujah
Additionally Grujah never struck me as town as a lot of people gave him credit for. I do not think putting yourself at risk when you have a bunch of votes near the deadline buys him town status because he knew full well Robz would get lynched and that we would never lynch him day 2 for his offer.
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I realized that Grujah's response will be coming back in chicken, so quote me 1 or more posts of mine that make this vote feel right to, using our chicken setup.
It feels really scummy to show up and say "dangalang, mafia hit the PR we hoped they didn't. oh yes, also vote for somebody who was advocating the ashersky lynch for a very long time yesterday"
Vote: Grujah
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That is L-2 as Grujah is hated.
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As there's no impending deadline, I'll catch up to this a bit later. There's other things demanding my time.
I'm furious however that you all went and lynched in the 20 minute window I was away driving. I have a reputation of being on more lynches than anybody, and my percentage correct is relatively high. You all made me miss an opportunity simply because I wanted to use the extra time to at least give Ash a chance to respond!
Bah Humbug to you all! You're costing me on my leaderboard percentages!
(No, I'm not really THAT vain or egotistical).
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Chicken Chicken.
Vote: Galzria
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Anybody out there?
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Upon reread, I think Insomniac looks most like potential mafia based on end of D2.
-Just after Frisk claims PR, he tries to nudge lynch toward Eevee, but hedgily (is that a word?) offers potential support for ashersky lynch. Also seems not to consider the possibility that Frisk could be lying, as if he knew Frisk to be town:
vote: ashersky
You don't think it's more likely Eevee? Will vote ashersky now though if people prefer it.
-Rolefishes like crazy after the vague claims came out, pushing hard for fullclaims from everyone after we had all decided not to do that. Then this, which contradicts the quote above:
I do not foresee myself voting for a PR without having a 1-1 scenario.
which he later contradicted again by voting ashersky anyway.
-These next two posts speak for themselves:
I just realized there is no possible world in which ashersky is lying. Explain post coming
Assume ashersky is lying. That means 1 of Eevee/CF is the cutpurse and the other is the pearl diver. This is fine so far. However the town consensus WAS to shoot ashersky yesterday while cursed. Once that consensus had been reached BOTH of CF and Eevee had been online BEFORE the curse came off. Therefore if one of Eevee/CF is the cutpurse they defied towns request and DIDN'T shoot ash. That doesn't make sense from a town standpoint.
This leads me to conclude that Ashersky SHOULDN'T (95/100 times) be the liar.
This argument was obviously wrong in retrospect, and based on the very flawed assumption that everyone had agreed that the cutpurse shoot ashersky. This would be a very bold and desperate scumplay by Insomniac to try to save his scumbuddy. It doesn't quite seem like scum Insomniac, but I could see him trying something crazy like this to shake up his style.
-Finally when the lynch looks inevitable he hops on the wagon, perhaps fearful that the above behavior will look much worse if ashersky flips scum and Insomniac is not on the wagon.
Well Jo has gone retarded. I guess I'll sheep Frisk and hope for the best since no one wants to listen to logic today.
Vote: ashersky
Vote: Insomniac
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Upon reread, I think Insomniac looks most like potential mafia based on end of D2.
-Just after Frisk claims PR, he tries to nudge lynch toward Eevee, but hedgily (is that a word?) offers potential support for ashersky lynch. Also seems not to consider the possibility that Frisk could be lying, as if he knew Frisk to be town:
vote: ashersky
You don't think it's more likely Eevee? Will vote ashersky now though if people prefer it.
-Rolefishes like crazy after the vague claims came out, pushing hard for fullclaims from everyone after we had all decided not to do that. Then this, which contradicts the quote above:
I do not foresee myself voting for a PR without having a 1-1 scenario.
which he later contradicted again by voting ashersky anyway.
-These next two posts speak for themselves:
I just realized there is no possible world in which ashersky is lying. Explain post coming
Assume ashersky is lying. That means 1 of Eevee/CF is the cutpurse and the other is the pearl diver. This is fine so far. However the town consensus WAS to shoot ashersky yesterday while cursed. Once that consensus had been reached BOTH of CF and Eevee had been online BEFORE the curse came off. Therefore if one of Eevee/CF is the cutpurse they defied towns request and DIDN'T shoot ash. That doesn't make sense from a town standpoint.
This leads me to conclude that Ashersky SHOULDN'T (95/100 times) be the liar.
This argument was obviously wrong in retrospect, and based on the very flawed assumption that everyone had agreed that the cutpurse shoot ashersky. This would be a very bold and desperate scumplay by Insomniac to try to save his scumbuddy. It doesn't quite seem like scum Insomniac, but I could see him trying something crazy like this to shake up his style.
-Finally when the lynch looks inevitable he hops on the wagon, perhaps fearful that the above behavior will look much worse if ashersky flips scum and Insomniac is not on the wagon.
Well Jo has gone retarded. I guess I'll sheep Frisk and hope for the best since no one wants to listen to logic today.
Vote: ashersky
Vote: Insomniac
This I can get behind.
Vote: Insomniac
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Shrug not scum. Lynch Grujah when I flip town
Vote: Insomniac
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Also with the way shraeye is sheeping I nominate him for the high level scum on ash's list, but thats far less certain than Grujah
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I've wanted out of this town since day 1 when it became apparent we were stupid enough to lynch a PR claim on day 1. So I'm still ok with an Insomniac lynch
The scum team is Ash/Grujah/X, and I think X is likely shraeye.
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Secondary scumread on Archetype. Last two posts are below
I'm not ok with an ashersky lynch, wouldnt mind a Galz lynch, and prefer a Captain_Frisk.
I don't have time to do a big response now (phone posting), I'll have to do it tommorow, but:
Not ok with an ashersky lynch.
Fine with a Galzria or Eevee lynch, the case on them is convincing.
More keen on a C_F lynch. My read on him hasn't changed at all.
I saw some stuff about claiming, can't counter-claim anyone, I'm a FV.
Jo being cursed...again. I don't think it's the random voter twice, pretty sure Mafia just wants him shutup. What were his reads pre-chicken\post-chicken? I know one of the post reads is a scum read on me, but I don't know of any others.
He says twice that he doesn't want to lynch ashersky, without offering any reason. In between those two posts joth and I both asked him to explain, which he chose not to do in his second post. This seems odd as I thought ashersky was objectively pretty damn scummy yesterday. He also somewhat tunneled confirmed-town Frisk yesterday.
Oh, and he's by far posted the least out of anyone still alive. Less than half as much as me, and I have something a lurking meta anyway.
Major FoS: Archetype. I'd be comfortable lynching him or Insomniac today.
PPE: several
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Vote Count 3.1:
Galzria (1): Grujah
Insomniac (3): Cuzz, shraeye, Insomniac
Not Voting (5): Eevee, jotheonah, Archetype, Galzria, yuma
With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
Currently Cursed: jotheonah, Grujah
Curse deadline: Thursday Nov 1, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
Lynch deadline: Tuesday Nov 6, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
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So I guess this should be pretty obvious... but just in case it isn't...
Eevee is highly likely the Pearl Diver, correct? and should not reveal whether or not he went diving last night.
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Assume ashersky is lying. That means 1 of Eevee/CF is the cutpurse and the other is the pearl diver. This is fine so far. However the town consensus WAS to shoot ashersky yesterday while cursed. Once that consensus had been reached BOTH of CF and Eevee had been online BEFORE the curse came off. Therefore if one of Eevee/CF is the cutpurse they defied towns request and DIDN'T shoot ash. That doesn't make sense from a town standpoint.
This leads me to conclude that Ashersky SHOULDN'T (95/100 times) be the liar.
Insomniac: Here you say that town reached a consensus on using the cutpurse one-shot. I realize that in the moment it may have been hard to go back and pull quotes, etc... But did you have any specific quotes in mind as to where you thought that town came to this consensus? Do you still think town came to this consensus?
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Assume ashersky is lying. That means 1 of Eevee/CF is the cutpurse and the other is the pearl diver. This is fine so far. However the town consensus WAS to shoot ashersky yesterday while cursed. Once that consensus had been reached BOTH of CF and Eevee had been online BEFORE the curse came off. Therefore if one of Eevee/CF is the cutpurse they defied towns request and DIDN'T shoot ash. That doesn't make sense from a town standpoint.
This leads me to conclude that Ashersky SHOULDN'T (95/100 times) be the liar.
Insomniac: Here you say that town reached a consensus on using the cutpurse one-shot. I realize that in the moment it may have been hard to go back and pull quotes, etc... But did you have any specific quotes in mind as to where you thought that town came to this consensus? Do you still think town came to this consensus?
Yes, the town put him to L-1, someone not on the wagon expressed that they were going to hammer. Then since he was cursed people unvoted so that cutpurse could vig him.
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Hm, looks like Asher put me as his lowest scum read. This doesn't make me look good. :P
Pearl Diver, don't tell who you are. Eevee, if you are indeed the Pearl Diver, what results have you gathered.
I could see Grujah being scum. IIRC, Asher didnt get on the Grujah wagon, and he doesn't seem like the kind of person to throw his buddy under the bus.
Vote: Grujah
Quick Town reads: Cuzz, Yuma, Shraeye, Eevee (if no one counterclaims)
Scum reads: Grujah and Captain_Frisk
A bit neutral on everyone else
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Hm, looks like Asher put me as his lowest scum read. This doesn't make me look good. :P
Pearl Diver, don't tell who you are. Eevee, if you are indeed the Pearl Diver, what results have you gathered.
I could see Grujah being scum. IIRC, Asher didnt get on the Grujah wagon, and he doesn't seem like the kind of person to throw his buddy under the bus.
Vote: Grujah
Quick Town reads: Cuzz, Yuma, Shraeye, Eevee (if no one counterclaims)
Scum reads: Grujah and Captain_Frisk
A bit neutral on everyone else
Frisk was night killed... who did you intended to put there?
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Hm, looks like Asher put me as his lowest scum read. This doesn't make me look good. :P
Pearl Diver, don't tell who you are. Eevee, if you are indeed the Pearl Diver, what results have you gathered.
I could see Grujah being scum. IIRC, Asher didnt get on the Grujah wagon, and he doesn't seem like the kind of person to throw his buddy under the bus.
Vote: Grujah
Quick Town reads: Cuzz, Yuma, Shraeye, Eevee (if no one counterclaims)
Scum reads: Grujah and Captain_Frisk
A bit neutral on everyone else
Frisk was night killed... who did you intended to put there?
Oh, yeah :P I meant Insomniac
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Chicken Vote: Insomniac
Chicken Chicken
Chicken Unvote
Chicken Vote: Archetype
Chicken Chicken
Chicken Unvote
Chicken Vote: Insomniac
Chicken Vote: Archetype
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Chicken Vote: Eevee
Chicken Vote: Cuzz
Chicken Vote: yuma
Chicken Vote: Galz
Chicken Vote: jo?
Chicken Vote: shraeye
Chicken Vote: Insomniac
Chicken Vote: Archetype
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Why are people not playing this game?
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Why are people not playing this game?
possibly halloween...?
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Why are people not playing this game?
possibly halloween...?
Whats your read on the situation?
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Why are people not playing this game?
possibly halloween...?
Whats your read on the situation?
I am trying to analyze the votes that were cast by, on ashersky... but all the chicken votes is making the task a little more complicated than it should be. Hopefully you will get something from me soon.
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So looking at votes surrounding ashersky...
- Insomniac puts ashersky 4th on his chicken list early
- Eevee votes ashersky first (Eevee)
- yuma votes ashersky after analysis (eevee, yuma)
- shraeye joins making it 3 votes (eevee, yuma, shraeye)
- Grujah joins putting it at L-2 (eevee, yuma, shraeye, grujah)
- Grujah changes vote to shraeye, so ash is back at L-3 (eevee, yuma, shraeye)
- jot votes ashersky, so he is back at L-2 (eevee, yuma, shraeye, jot)
- ash still hasn't voted all day... but finally votes Galz once he becomes a chicken, with Frisk, shraeye and cuzz as his top four chicken suspects
- Cuzz votes ashersky... somewhere along the line, eevee unvotes, but I missed it (yuma, shraeye, jot, cuzz)
- Grujah votes putting him at L-1 (yuma, shraeye, jot, cuzz, grujah)
- Galz appears to be willing to vote, but notices Grujah's vote. so doesn't
- shraeye changes his vote to eevee so now it is L-2 (yuma, jot, cuzz, grujah)
- jot and grujah continue to push ash lynch
- cuzz changes his vote to eevee (yuma, jot, grujah)
- jot changes his vote to eevee (yuma, grujah)
- shraeye is back on ash (yuma, grujah, shraeye)
- shraeye unvotes
- yuma changes vote to archetype (grujah....
- Frisk counterclaims and votes ashersky (grujah, frisk)
- eevee rejoins the lynch (grujah, frisk, eevee)
- jot votes ash (grujah, frisk ,eevee, jot)
- shraye votes for ash (grujah, frisk, eevee, jot, shraeye)
- jot changes vote to insomniac (grujah, frisk, eevee, shraeye)
- insomniac votes ash (grujah, frisk, eevee, shraeye, insomniac)
- jot votes ash (grujah, frisk, eevee, shraeye, insomniac, jot)
Wife and I about to start a movie... so analysis will come later on this wonderful information.
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So looking at votes surrounding ashersky...
- Insomniac puts ashersky 4th on his chicken list early
- Eevee votes ashersky first (Eevee)
- yuma votes ashersky after analysis (eevee, yuma)
- shraeye joins making it 3 votes (eevee, yuma, shraeye)
- Grujah joins putting it at L-2 (eevee, yuma, shraeye, grujah)
- Grujah changes vote to shraeye, so ash is back at L-3 (eevee, yuma, shraeye)
- jot votes ashersky, so he is back at L-2 (eevee, yuma, shraeye, jot)
- ash still hasn't voted all day... but finally votes Galz once he becomes a chicken, with Frisk, shraeye and cuzz as his top four chicken suspects
- Cuzz votes ashersky... somewhere along the line, eevee unvotes, but I missed it (yuma, shraeye, jot, cuzz)
- Grujah votes putting him at L-1 (yuma, shraeye, jot, cuzz, grujah)
- Galz appears to be willing to vote, but notices Grujah's vote. so doesn't
- shraeye changes his vote to eevee so now it is L-2 (yuma, jot, cuzz, grujah)
- jot and grujah continue to push ash lynch
- cuzz changes his vote to eevee (yuma, jot, grujah)
- jot changes his vote to eevee (yuma, grujah)
- shraeye is back on ash (yuma, grujah, shraeye)
- shraeye unvotes
- yuma changes vote to archetype (grujah....
- Frisk counterclaims and votes ashersky (grujah, frisk)
- eevee rejoins the lynch (grujah, frisk, eevee)
- jot votes ash (grujah, frisk ,eevee, jot)
- shraye votes for ash (grujah, frisk, eevee, jot, shraeye)
- jot changes vote to insomniac (grujah, frisk, eevee, shraeye)
- insomniac votes ash (grujah, frisk, eevee, shraeye, insomniac)
- jot votes ash (grujah, frisk, eevee, shraeye, insomniac, jot)
Wife and I about to start a movie... so analysis will come later on this wonderful information.
so of everyone alive, the strikethrough voted for ashersky yesterday:
shrayeye, insomniac, jotheonah, grujah, yuma, Archetype, Cuzz, eevee galzria
meaning that either the scumteam is archetype/Galz/ash or there was bussing yesterday. Galz said he was willing to put ash to L-1, but wasn't willing to put him to lynch. If Galz was scum he was put into an interesting position. Does he hammer his scummate without giving him an opportunity to talk? Or does he not vote? I would expect scumGalz to be willing to hammer a scummate. But would he be willing to hammer him so quick? Hmmm... this is sort of a toss up for me and would like to hear thoughts about it from others.
If the scumteam isn't Galz/archetype then like I said bussing occurred. I think the most likely bussers are insomniac--for only voting realy late--or cuzz for being on and off repeatedly and off at the end.
Right now I would be comfortable with a archetype, cuzz or insomniac vote. But would like to go back and look at each a bit more in depth specifically. Galz is after these three players I think.
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Yeah, I'm the pearl diver. Obviously not revealing whether I hid or not. Someone was angry at me for not saving Frisk... why, how could I have done that? Also Archetype, what could I possibly know?
Insomniac's behavior is absolutely infuriating. I don't know what to make of it, he was my 2nd biggest town read yesterday but it's just so blaaaargh. Grujah was my biggest town read, can someone compile a case against him? The townread is from the madness of the end of day 1. It kind of sucks I'm the only conf-town and should be leading you and stuff, but due to irl-reasons likely won't be taking much of a role. Galzria was another scum read of mine, but I think today's lynch target shouldn't be decided by gut reads but rather by examining interactions with Robz, me and ashersky (our three flips).
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Sorry, I meant wether you used your power or not, which you definitally shouldnt reveal.
I agree with your last section, Eevee. We're down 3 PRs, and we may lose Eevee tonight (if he hasnt used his power). We need to stop random targeting and look for evidence.
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Chicken vote: Insomniac
Chicken unvote
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Haven't caught up yet, but starting to read. My biggest scum read yesterday was Eevee, which I was obviously wrong on. Following him were Arch and Ash. Ash went down as scum, and others have drawn connections to Arch over it. I need to reread him still, but that would be my preferred direction today based on what I've seen and feel from days past.
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This town is ridiculous. I'm town. Grujah is scum. Period it's cut and dry here
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Chicken Vote: Insomniac
Chicken Chicken
Chicken Unvote
Chicken Vote: Insomniac
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Anybody out there? Does anybody agree with my assessment of the situation or is it only myself and scum who want to play this game.
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Anybody out there? Does anybody agree with my assessment of the situation or is it only myself and scum who want to play this game.
Yeah, sorry...
Ok, I've said before that I think you're both town. Obviously he can't elaborate on why you're scum, but you CAN elaborate on why he IS.
You've said it's absolute, clear cut, no question. My reads, while not perfect, aren't generally terrible. So tell me why Grujah is like, the most obvscum ever.
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Ok. So I looked at ashersky's interactions with Grujah.
Ashersky never ever voted for Grujah. He often called Grujah out but it was normally in the middle of posts that he was mentioning other things in. He also listed Grujah low on his suspicion list but not at the bottom. We have to remember this is Ashersky's first game as scum and I think this is totally how ash would have interacted with Grujah in his first game as scum. (You'll note that Robz called Ashersky out for using the new scum meta I'm talking about here on Day 1).
Now let's look at Grujah. You gave him a town read because he offered a 1-1 trade with Robz. Show me ONE game on this forum where we have EVER EVER EVER taken that trade. Grujah gets a town read for offering such a trade (knowing full well we'll never take him up on it)? Not gonna fly with me.
The wagon, now lets look at the lynch wagon. Oh Grujah is first on this doesn't surprise me as it gives him town cred if ash ever DOES get lynched. CF and Eevee primarily lead the lynch charge, so let's go back and see what happened when the lynch got to L-1.
Who put him to L-1 you ask good question, Grujah. Grujah unvotes before too much more has transpired and says "Let us vig" he treats Galz's almost hammer as a hammer and wants to get the day vig to use up his ability. Immediately after being chicken cursed when everyone is unvoting Grujah revotes for ash and stays there for the rest of the day.
You want the case on me? Cuzz has a good one it's all based on the end of day 2 where I was trying to decide how to handle the PR situation. Anyways this is the case on me.
Upon reread, I think Insomniac looks most like potential mafia based on end of D2.
-Just after Frisk claims PR, he tries to nudge lynch toward Eevee, but hedgily (is that a word?) offers potential support for ashersky lynch. Also seems not to consider the possibility that Frisk could be lying, as if he knew Frisk to be town:
vote: ashersky
You don't think it's more likely Eevee? Will vote ashersky now though if people prefer it.
-Rolefishes like crazy after the vague claims came out, pushing hard for fullclaims from everyone after we had all decided not to do that. Then this, which contradicts the quote above:
I do not foresee myself voting for a PR without having a 1-1 scenario.
which he later contradicted again by voting ashersky anyway.
-These next two posts speak for themselves:
I just realized there is no possible world in which ashersky is lying. Explain post coming
Assume ashersky is lying. That means 1 of Eevee/CF is the cutpurse and the other is the pearl diver. This is fine so far. However the town consensus WAS to shoot ashersky yesterday while cursed. Once that consensus had been reached BOTH of CF and Eevee had been online BEFORE the curse came off. Therefore if one of Eevee/CF is the cutpurse they defied towns request and DIDN'T shoot ash. That doesn't make sense from a town standpoint.
This leads me to conclude that Ashersky SHOULDN'T (95/100 times) be the liar.
This argument was obviously wrong in retrospect, and based on the very flawed assumption that everyone had agreed that the cutpurse shoot ashersky. This would be a very bold and desperate scumplay by Insomniac to try to save his scumbuddy. It doesn't quite seem like scum Insomniac, but I could see him trying something crazy like this to shake up his style.
-Finally when the lynch looks inevitable he hops on the wagon, perhaps fearful that the above behavior will look much worse if ashersky flips scum and Insomniac is not on the wagon.
Well Jo has gone retarded. I guess I'll sheep Frisk and hope for the best since no one wants to listen to logic today.
Vote: ashersky
Vote: Insomniac
But in order for you to believe that case you need to think that I went from playing a magnificent scum game to playing a damn terrible one, and that I offered myself in place of Robz when it actually had potential to gain traction on day 1 (people hate self votes and VT claims on day 1)
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You're missing the point regarding the offered trade, do I'll disregard any part of the argument that relates to it. The point is - regardless of Grujah believing we would or would not take him up on it, there was absolutely no reason - none at all - to even type the statement out. It's not exactly a statement that's made with the INTENTION of buying oneself town cred.. I mean, put yourself in the shoes of scum for a moment. Now, you know three town is about to lynch a townie (he's at L-1 with multiple hammer threats). Why in the world would you EVER bother saying, at THAT TIME "I'm so confident in my read that you're scum, that if you flip anything else, I deserve to die for it"? It doesn't matter if you know that you won't be killed - in what way can making that statement, against someone you KNOW is going to flip town, have an EXPECTATION of bringing you town cred? It can't. It just can't.
So yes, I DO choose to give him town cred for it - because I can't see how he could've ever thought that making such a statement on someone who was about to be lynched, makes ANY sense if he already knew for a fact that person was town - especially when the alternative was to just keep his mouth shut and not say anything.
That doesn't MAKE him town, but it does indeed giver him town points.
Going back to read the rest of the case now.
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I would absolutely offer that up as the second most suspected player as a gambit for town credit.
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I would absolutely offer that up as the second most suspected player as a gambit for town credit.
I'm sorry, but that's ridiculous. Because as soon as the hammer falls on the townie, you look scummy as hell. There's no expectation of town cred to be gained from making that statement.
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That said, the rest of what you say intrigues me. Give me some time to chew it over.
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FWIW, your self-vote VS his 1-1 request:
Three self-vote looked FAR and away more like a calculated move to buy town cred, knowing you would never actually get lynched for it.
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I would absolutely offer that up as the second most suspected player as a gambit for town credit.
I'm sorry, but that's ridiculous. Because as soon as the hammer falls on the townie, you look scummy as hell. There's no expectation of town cred to be gained from making that statement.
How is it? Is that not EXACTLY what happened?
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FWIW, your self-vote VS his 1-1 request:
Three self-vote looked FAR and away more like a calculated move to buy town cred, knowing you would never actually get lynched for it.
Eh? I got up to 4 votes, and even then the only reason it didn't go through is because you and Robz defended me. And Robz wasn't scum so I guess that makes the scum team you me and ash if it was a ploy. Because otherwise there is no way I could have counted on having anyone defend me and if Robz didn't defend me you'd look scummy as crap for defending me so I couldn't count on ANYONE defending me and thus it was entirely possible that my lynch would have gone through instead.
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FWIW, your self-vote VS his 1-1 request:
Three self-vote looked FAR and away more like a calculated move to buy town cred, knowing you would never actually get lynched for it.
Eh? I got up to 4 votes, and even then the only reason it didn't go through is because you and Robz defended me. And Robz wasn't scum so I guess that makes the scum team you me and ash if it was a ploy. Because otherwise there is no way I could have counted on having anyone defend me and if Robz didn't defend me you'd look scummy as crap for defending me so I couldn't count on ANYONE defending me and thus it was entirely possible that my lynch would have gone through instead.
But it didn't.
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Anyhow there is no point leaving my vote where it has 0% chance of hitting scum when at least someone agrees that Grujah is scum.
Vote: Grujah
I WILL hammer myself if I get to L-1 because I'm quite tired of how town has played this game. Hammering PR claims day 1 which is dumb, and giving town credit where none is deserved.
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FWIW, your self-vote VS his 1-1 request:
Three self-vote looked FAR and away more like a calculated move to buy town cred, knowing you would never actually get lynched for it.
Eh? I got up to 4 votes, and even then the only reason it didn't go through is because you and Robz defended me. And Robz wasn't scum so I guess that makes the scum team you me and ash if it was a ploy. Because otherwise there is no way I could have counted on having anyone defend me and if Robz didn't defend me you'd look scummy as crap for defending me so I couldn't count on ANYONE defending me and thus it was entirely possible that my lynch would have gone through instead.
But it didn't.
It didn't go through because YOU and ROBZ (the cop) defended me, how could I have counted on that at all as scum?
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FWIW, your self-vote VS his 1-1 request:
Three self-vote looked FAR and away more like a calculated move to buy town cred, knowing you would never actually get lynched for it.
Eh? I got up to 4 votes, and even then the only reason it didn't go through is because you and Robz defended me. And Robz wasn't scum so I guess that makes the scum team you me and ash if it was a ploy. Because otherwise there is no way I could have counted on having anyone defend me and if Robz didn't defend me you'd look scummy as crap for defending me so I couldn't count on ANYONE defending me and thus it was entirely possible that my lynch would have gone through instead.
But it didn't.
It didn't go through because YOU and ROBZ (the cop) defended me, how could I have counted on that at all as scum?
How could Grujah have counted on saying "If he's town I deserve to die!" giving him town cred, knowing full well that Robz WAS town and he would look scummy as hell when Robz flipped?
You want town cred for a result, but don't want to give it for another.
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FWIW, your self-vote VS his 1-1 request:
Three self-vote looked FAR and away more like a calculated move to buy town cred, knowing you would never actually get lynched for it.
Eh? I got up to 4 votes, and even then the only reason it didn't go through is because you and Robz defended me. And Robz wasn't scum so I guess that makes the scum team you me and ash if it was a ploy. Because otherwise there is no way I could have counted on having anyone defend me and if Robz didn't defend me you'd look scummy as crap for defending me so I couldn't count on ANYONE defending me and thus it was entirely possible that my lynch would have gone through instead.
But it didn't.
It didn't go through because YOU and ROBZ (the cop) defended me, how could I have counted on that at all as scum?
How could Grujah have counted on saying "If he's town I deserve to die!" giving him town cred, knowing full well that Robz WAS town and he would look scummy as hell when Robz flipped?
You want town cred for a result, but don't want to give it for another.
I don't want town credit, I just don't think it's even potential to be a calculated scum gambit. I think Grujah's is far more likely to be a scum gambit while mine is more likely to be a townie imploding but eh what do I know not like I've played however many games here as town.
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Vote Count 3.2:
Insomniac (3): Cuzz, shraeye, Grujah
Grujah (2): Archetype, Insomniac
Not Voting (4): Eevee, jotheonah, Galzria, yuma
With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
Currently Cursed: jotheonah, Grujah
Curse deadline: Thursday Nov 1, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
Lynch deadline: Tuesday Nov 6, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
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FWIW, your self-vote VS his 1-1 request:
Three self-vote looked FAR and away more like a calculated move to buy town cred, knowing you would never actually get lynched for it.
Eh? I got up to 4 votes, and even then the only reason it didn't go through is because you and Robz defended me. And Robz wasn't scum so I guess that makes the scum team you me and ash if it was a ploy. Because otherwise there is no way I could have counted on having anyone defend me and if Robz didn't defend me you'd look scummy as crap for defending me so I couldn't count on ANYONE defending me and thus it was entirely possible that my lynch would have gone through instead.
But it didn't.
It didn't go through because YOU and ROBZ (the cop) defended me, how could I have counted on that at all as scum?
How could Grujah have counted on saying "If he's town I deserve to die!" giving him town cred, knowing full well that Robz WAS town and he would look scummy as hell when Robz flipped?
You want town cred for a result, but don't want to give it for another.
I don't want town credit, I just don't think it's even potential to be a calculated scum gambit. I think Grujah's is far more likely to be a scum gambit while mine is more likely to be a townie imploding but eh what do I know not like I've played however many games here as town.
I've been scum twice in 9 games. Town in the other 7.
You've been scum twice in 8 games. Town in the other 6.
I've got more town than you. :P
I'm just saying, from a, say, Mafia Goon standpoint, I would far, far more often offer to sacrifice myself when I have 0 suspicion, knowing a town is on the chopping block, because I come out looking damn good for defending a townie after he's lynched - than I would say "lynch me if he's town", knowing a town is on the chopping block and I come out looking scummy as hell after he's lynched.
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I'm not using that to argue you're scumminess either though - because I think you're exactly what you claim - a frustrated townie. Especially then. Yeah, I believe that about you. And to me, your actions since then haven't appeared all that scummy either. It's just that the two events, in a vacuum, yours reads more like calculating scum than Grujah's.
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I'm conftown. I have two town reads. There are two wagons. Ding ding.
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@Eevee: Who are your scum reads? and what about the case on Grujah do you find uncompelling similarily what do you find uncompelling about the case on me.
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Vote: Archetype
Don't know if was before or not, but he's now got the highest chance to be scum imo.
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Vote: Archetype
Don't know if was before or not, but he's now got the highest chance to be scum imo.
What did you find uncompelling about the rest of my case IE the ash relations.
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Also do you really think ash would have put his scumbuddy at the bottom of his suspicion list?
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Also do you really think ash would have put his scumbuddy at the bottom of his suspicion list?
Yes, I absolutely do. I also think scum Arch would adamantly say "I don't like the Ash lynch, we should lynch Frisk, Galz, or Eevee instead".
I also note that he was a very high suspect of both Robz AND CF, for very different reasons.
I'll be putting a full case together with quotes later on the plethora of things that have stood out in his posts.
And speaking of posts, there's been a whopping total of 39. Next lowest is Yuma, at 57, then Joth/Shraeye/Cuzz at nearly double Arch's, in their 70's.
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Also do you really think ash would have put his scumbuddy at the bottom of his suspicion list?
Yes, I absolutely do. I also think scum Arch would adamantly say "I don't like the Ash lynch, we should lynch Frisk, Galz, or Eevee instead".
I also note that he was a very high suspect of both Robz AND CF, for very different reasons.
I'll be putting a full case together with quotes later on the plethora of things that have stood out in his posts.
And speaking of posts, there's been a whopping total of 39. Next lowest is Yuma, at 57, then Joth/Shraeye/Cuzz at nearly double Arch's, in their 70's.
at least half of jos have to be simply chickenvoting for the person he's already voting for :P
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Also do you really think ash would have put his scumbuddy at the bottom of his suspicion list?
Yes, I absolutely do. I also think scum Arch would adamantly say "I don't like the Ash lynch, we should lynch Frisk, Galz, or Eevee instead".
I also note that he was a very high suspect of both Robz AND CF, for very different reasons.
I'll be putting a full case together with quotes later on the plethora of things that have stood out in his posts.
And speaking of posts, there's been a whopping total of 39. Next lowest is Yuma, at 57, then Joth/Shraeye/Cuzz at nearly double Arch's, in their 70's.
at least half of jos have to be simply chickenvoting for the person he's already voting for :P
True, but when you spend half the game as a chicken, there's only so much you can say.
Even then, he's managed twice as much!
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Thread locked.
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jotheonah was really tired of being a chicken. He'd eaten the bugs, the corn, flapped his wings and clucked, and to make it worse Grujah the chicken had just been following him around because he already knew the ropes. Grujah had been eating the grass he'd been eating, and he was tired of sharing it. It was a relief when he felt the familiar feeling of his return to humanity. Grujah on the other hand kindof missed the feel of being a chicken. So he plucked a piece of grass from the ground and chewed on it when he became human again.
Galzria was about to feel what it was like for the first time. Locked into a debate with Insomniac he almost didn't notice he was a chicken until his responses went from human sounding to avian.
"What do you think about—chicken chicken chicken chicken?" he asked as he was transformed mid sentence.
Currently Cursed: Galzria <--HEY GALZRIA DON'T MISS THIS. THE NEXT PUNISHMENT WILL BE WORSE THAN GRUJAH'S.
jotheonah is no longer hated. Grujah still is.
Curse deadline: Sunday Nov 4, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
Lynch deadline: Tuesday Nov 6, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
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THREAD UNLOCKED
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And Galz isn't the random curser.
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Also do you really think ash would have put his scumbuddy at the bottom of his suspicion list?
Yes, I absolutely do. I also think scum Arch would adamantly say "I don't like the Ash lynch, we should lynch Frisk, Galz, or Eevee instead".
I also note that he was a very high suspect of both Robz AND CF, for very different reasons.
I'll be putting a full case together with quotes later on the plethora of things that have stood out in his posts.
And speaking of posts, there's been a whopping total of 39. Next lowest is Yuma, at 57, then Joth/Shraeye/Cuzz at nearly double Arch's, in their 70's.
at least half of jos have to be simply chickenvoting for the person he's already voting for :P
Well, the poor guy has been a chicken for like half the game. Which makes Archetype's post count in comparison all the more damning.
Archetype: you still have yet to explain your opposition to the ashersky lynch. Opposing a scum lynch isn't necessarily scummy in and of itself since only scum knows scum for sure, but to do so without reason or explanation is suspicious.
While I'm on Archetype, I find this post really odd (emphasis added):
Hm, looks like Asher put me as his lowest scum read. This doesn't make me look good. :P
Pearl Diver, don't tell who you are. Eevee, if you are indeed the Pearl Diver, what results have you gathered.
I could see Grujah being scum. IIRC, Asher didnt get on the Grujah wagon, and he doesn't seem like the kind of person to throw his buddy under the bus.
Vote: Grujah
Quick Town reads: Cuzz, Yuma, Shraeye, Eevee (if no one counterclaims)
Scum reads: Grujah and Captain_Frisk
A bit neutral on everyone else
The bolded parts seems to demonstrate a lack of knowledge of the game-state and make no sense at all. a. Pearl diver is not an investigative role, b. Eevee already claimed pearl diver, c. You ask the pearl diver to not reveal himself, while asking Eevee to give information if he is pearl diver. These requests are incompatible. And finally d. Arch continues his D2 tunneling of dead confirmed-townie Frisk, later claiming this was a mistake.
This post on its own could be evidence of scum or bad town play, but Archetype's lurky behavior in general (and the ash defense) has been seeming quite scummy to me anyway.
Vote: Archetype
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Chicken Vote: Insomniac
Chicken
Unvote
Chicken Vote: Archetype
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Can't be random Curser
Insomniac
Galzria
jotheonah (You have to believe he was cursed over Volt AND over Grujah)
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Can't be random Curser
Insomniac
Galzria
jotheonah (You have to believe he was cursed over Volt AND over Grujah)
What are we supposed to do with this information? (Not being snarky, really just curious as to how it might be useful.) I guess if we knew random curser, they'd be conftown? But he doesn't even know himself that he's the random curser...
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@Cuzz its useful because if we did manage to find out who they were on our own they would be conftown. However the flip is that if we do cause a mislynch it's best if it is the random curser because then we have mafia cursing to analyze as well.
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Also do you really think ash would have put his scumbuddy at the bottom of his suspicion list?
Yes, I absolutely do. I also think scum Arch would adamantly say "I don't like the Ash lynch, we should lynch Frisk, Galz, or Eevee instead".
I also note that he was a very high suspect of both Robz AND CF, for very different reasons.
I'll be putting a full case together with quotes later on the plethora of things that have stood out in his posts.
And speaking of posts, there's been a whopping total of 39. Next lowest is Yuma, at 57, then Joth/Shraeye/Cuzz at nearly double Arch's, in their 70's.
at least half of jos have to be simply chickenvoting for the person he's already voting for :P
Well, the poor guy has been a chicken for like half the game. Which makes Archetype's post count in comparison all the more damning.
Archetype: you still have yet to explain your opposition to the ashersky lynch. Opposing a scum lynch isn't necessarily scummy in and of itself since only scum knows scum for sure, but to do so without reason or explanation is suspicious.
While I'm on Archetype, I find this post really odd (emphasis added):
Hm, looks like Asher put me as his lowest scum read. This doesn't make me look good. :P
Pearl Diver, don't tell who you are. Eevee, if you are indeed the Pearl Diver, what results have you gathered.
I could see Grujah being scum. IIRC, Asher didnt get on the Grujah wagon, and he doesn't seem like the kind of person to throw his buddy under the bus.
Vote: Grujah
Quick Town reads: Cuzz, Yuma, Shraeye, Eevee (if no one counterclaims)
Scum reads: Grujah and Captain_Frisk
A bit neutral on everyone else
The bolded parts seems to demonstrate a lack of knowledge of the game-state and make no sense at all. a. Pearl diver is not an investigative role, b. Eevee already claimed pearl diver, c. You ask the pearl diver to not reveal himself, while asking Eevee to give information if he is pearl diver. These requests are incompatible. And finally d. Arch continues his D2 tunneling of dead confirmed-townie Frisk, later claiming this was a mistake.
This post on its own could be evidence of scum or bad town play, but Archetype's lurky behavior in general (and the ash defense) has been seeming quite scummy to me anyway.
Vote: Archetype
Yes, Archetype putting CF on his scummy list was ridiculous. It seems like he was so focused on trying to keep his "reads" consistent, that he didn't notice who died, or let the lynch even change his opinion of other things. I'm highly suspicious of this, and combined with his weird business regarding talking to the PRs, I agree with
Vote: ARchetype
Do we know that the random curser can't hit themselves?
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Chicken
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@Shraeye: Yes we do
@Grujah: your not a chicken
Vote: Shraeye his sheeping is just ridiculous.
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Yeah, just cleared that out with Jorbles, I was confused about it.
I agree that Arch's "Frisk" comment seems like a scum slip. Also, shraeye might be wagoning scum there, for that I do agree, Ins. Next in line is Ins.
yuma had a grand total of 2 votes on him, one being me mistaking Galz for him while I was drunk.
What's the vote tally?
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And what are these votes on me for?
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Vote Count 3.3:
Insomniac (1): Grujah
Grujah (1): Archetype
Archetype (3): Cuzz, Galzria, shraeye
shraeye (1): Insomniac
Not Voting (3): Eevee, jotheonah, yuma
With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
Currently Cursed: Galzria
Curse deadline: Sunday Nov 4, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
Lynch deadline: Tuesday Nov 6, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
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shra is listed twice.
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So looking at votes surrounding ashersky...
- Insomniac puts ashersky 4th on his chicken list early
- Eevee votes ashersky first (Eevee)
- yuma votes ashersky after analysis (eevee, yuma)
- shraeye joins making it 3 votes (eevee, yuma, shraeye)
- Grujah joins putting it at L-2 (eevee, yuma, shraeye, grujah)
- Grujah changes vote to shraeye, so ash is back at L-3 (eevee, yuma, shraeye)
- jot votes ashersky, so he is back at L-2 (eevee, yuma, shraeye, jot)
- ash still hasn't voted all day... but finally votes Galz once he becomes a chicken, with Frisk, shraeye and cuzz as his top four chicken suspects
- Cuzz votes ashersky... somewhere along the line, eevee unvotes, but I missed it (yuma, shraeye, jot, cuzz)
- Grujah votes putting him at L-1 (yuma, shraeye, jot, cuzz, grujah)
- Galz appears to be willing to vote, but notices Grujah's vote. so doesn't
- shraeye changes his vote to eevee so now it is L-2 (yuma, jot, cuzz, grujah)
- jot and grujah continue to push ash lynch
- cuzz changes his vote to eevee (yuma, jot, grujah)
- jot changes his vote to eevee (yuma, grujah)
- shraeye is back on ash (yuma, grujah, shraeye)
- shraeye unvotes
- yuma changes vote to archetype (grujah....
- Frisk counterclaims and votes ashersky (grujah, frisk)
- eevee rejoins the lynch (grujah, frisk, eevee)
- jot votes ash (grujah, frisk ,eevee, jot)
- shraye votes for ash (grujah, frisk, eevee, jot, shraeye)
- jot changes vote to insomniac (grujah, frisk, eevee, shraeye)
- insomniac votes ash (grujah, frisk, eevee, shraeye, insomniac)
- jot votes ash (grujah, frisk, eevee, shraeye, insomniac, jot)
Wife and I about to start a movie... so analysis will come later on this wonderful information.
Hi there, mafia eHalc from MVI.
You make all these analyses and still cast no votes?
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shra is listed twice.
Fixed.
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Chicken Vote: Grujah
Chicken chicken
Unvote
Chicken Vote: Archetype
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No what?
I am wrong on
1 chicken: Arch
2: shra
3: Ins
4:yuma
5: something else?
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One thing that kept me from arch vote for a short time is that we knew that Volt, as town, was chickened. And I know I, as town, was chickened. We also knew that ash was chickened - which gave me a pause (i tried to get this msg throgh, with no success). But he was somewhat of a scumread D1 and eevee I've put as town early so I wasn't that much off. ;D
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Chicken chicken chicken chicken
Chicken Vote: Insomniac
Chicken chicken chicken
Unvote
Chicken Vote: Archetype
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One thing that kept me from arch vote for a short time is that we knew that Volt, as town, was chickened. And I know I, as town, was chickened. We also knew that ash was chickened - which gave me a pause (i tried to get this msg throgh, with no success). But he was somewhat of a scumread D1 and eevee I've put as town early so I wasn't that much off. ;D
What do your views on Archetype have to do with who was chickened?
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ash* vote. Sigh. I've just done the same thing as Arch, I guess.
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I can talk again! Why did we all stop voting Insomniac?
-
I can talk again! Why did we all stop voting Insomniac?
I stopped because I was compelled by Archetype's multiple strange statements involving/regarding the PRs that have shown up so far. That felt more scummy to me.
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I can talk again! Why did we all stop voting Insomniac?
I stopped because I'm scum
FTFY
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Hm, looks like Asher put me as his lowest scum read. This doesn't make me look good. :P
Pearl Diver, don't tell who you are. Eevee, if you are indeed the Pearl Diver, what results have you gathered.
I could see Grujah being scum. IIRC, Asher didnt get on the Grujah wagon, and he doesn't seem like the kind of person to throw his buddy under the bus.
Vote: Grujah
Quick Town reads: Cuzz, Yuma, Shraeye, Eevee (if no one counterclaims)
Scum reads: Grujah and Captain_Frisk
A bit neutral on everyone else
The bolded parts seems to demonstrate a lack of knowledge of the game-state and make no sense at all. a. Pearl diver is not an investigative role, b. Eevee already claimed pearl diver, c. You ask the pearl diver to not reveal himself, while asking Eevee to give information if he is pearl diver. These requests are incompatible. And finally d. Arch continues his D2 tunneling of dead confirmed-townie Frisk, later claiming this was a mistake.
This post on its own could be evidence of scum or bad town play, but Archetype's lurky behavior in general (and the ash defense) has been seeming quite scummy to me anyway.
Vote: Archetype
[/quote]
yes, the PD and C_F issue were both me just being ignorant.
I don't have a firm reason why not to vote Asher, I just found the case on him weak.
Still think that Grujah is scum. Hopefully you all will peruse this If I get lynched.
Town read on Shraeye and Eevee, town read on Cuzz starting to diminish.
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Quoting fail, the part before the "[/quote]" was by Cuzz.
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I can talk again! Why did we all stop voting Insomniac?
I stopped because I'm scum
FTFY
Oh yeah, thanks for fixing that for me. How super productive and useful.
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Vote: Insomniac
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I can talk again! Why did we all stop voting Insomniac?
I stopped because I'm scum
FTFY
Oh yeah, thanks for fixing that for me. How super productive and useful.
Well do you plan on contributing today at all? Or just sheeping every single case that gets posted?
Insom posts anti-grujah case
shraeye in next post votes grujah
Cuzz posts anti-insom case
shraeye in next post votes insom
Cuzz posts anti-arche case
shraeye in next post votes archetype
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AND YOU Jo. Your better than this, your not a chicken you can contribute too, you don't have to just vote for your biggest scum read.
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Hm, looks like Asher put me as his lowest scum read. This doesn't make me look good. :P
Pearl Diver, don't tell who you are. Eevee, if you are indeed the Pearl Diver, what results have you gathered.
I could see Grujah being scum. IIRC, Asher didnt get on the Grujah wagon, and he doesn't seem like the kind of person to throw his buddy under the bus.
Vote: Grujah
Quick Town reads: Cuzz, Yuma, Shraeye, Eevee (if no one counterclaims)
Scum reads: Grujah and Captain_Frisk
A bit neutral on everyone else
The bolded parts seems to demonstrate a lack of knowledge of the game-state and make no sense at all. a. Pearl diver is not an investigative role, b. Eevee already claimed pearl diver, c. You ask the pearl diver to not reveal himself, while asking Eevee to give information if he is pearl diver. These requests are incompatible. And finally d. Arch continues his D2 tunneling of dead confirmed-townie Frisk, later claiming this was a mistake.
This post on its own could be evidence of scum or bad town play, but Archetype's lurky behavior in general (and the ash defense) has been seeming quite scummy to me anyway.
Vote: Archetype
[/ quote]
yes, the PD and C_F issue were both me just being ignorant.
I don't have a firm reason why not to vote Asher, I just found the case on him weak.
Still think that Grujah is scum. Hopefully you all will peruse this If I get lynched.
Town read on Shraeye and Eevee, town read on Cuzz starting to diminish.
Is there anyone in this game who won't vote for themselves? :P
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Hm, looks like Asher put me as his lowest scum read. This doesn't make me look good. :P
Pearl Diver, don't tell who you are. Eevee, if you are indeed the Pearl Diver, what results have you gathered.
I could see Grujah being scum. IIRC, Asher didnt get on the Grujah wagon, and he doesn't seem like the kind of person to throw his buddy under the bus.
Vote: Grujah
Quick Town reads: Cuzz, Yuma, Shraeye, Eevee (if no one counterclaims)
Scum reads: Grujah and Captain_Frisk
A bit neutral on everyone else
The bolded parts seems to demonstrate a lack of knowledge of the game-state and make no sense at all. a. Pearl diver is not an investigative role, b. Eevee already claimed pearl diver, c. You ask the pearl diver to not reveal himself, while asking Eevee to give information if he is pearl diver. These requests are incompatible. And finally d. Arch continues his D2 tunneling of dead confirmed-townie Frisk, later claiming this was a mistake.
This post on its own could be evidence of scum or bad town play, but Archetype's lurky behavior in general (and the ash defense) has been seeming quite scummy to me anyway.
Vote: Archetype
[/ quote]
yes, the PD and C_F issue were both me just being ignorant.
I don't have a firm reason why not to vote Asher, I just found the case on him weak.
Still think that Grujah is scum. Hopefully you all will peruse this If I get lynched.
Town read on Shraeye and Eevee, town read on Cuzz starting to diminish.
Is there anyone in this game who won't vote for themselves? :P
Yes, Archetype, I believe you accidently voted for yourself when you made the mistake quoting in your last post. You should probably unvote unless you also intend to play the "i'll vote for myself" defense.
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Hammertime? :P
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Chicken.
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Chicken.
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I've had a scummy read on Insom ALL DAY. He's been almost too bold with the self votes and the apparent willingness to be lynch. It just feels like the sort of counterintuitive but effective scum play I can totally imagine from him.
And then yesterday he tried to derail the ashersky lynch at the last minute. He's been brash and hostile and ... I'm just pretty sure he's scum. It could be confirmation bias at this point, but it's a strong read.
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Chicken Vote: Archetype
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I've had a scummy read on Insom ALL DAY. He's been almost too bold with the self votes and the apparent willingness to be lynch. It just feels like the sort of counterintuitive but effective scum play I can totally imagine from him.
And then yesterday he tried to derail the ashersky lynch at the last minute. He's been brash and hostile and ... I'm just pretty sure he's scum. It could be confirmation bias at this point, but it's a strong read.
As always your wrong Jo. but thank you for actually contributing. Do you need to go read M12 again where I was completely different.
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And by ALL DAY I mean ALL GAME. Sorry. Was that the hammer?
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And by ALL DAY I mean ALL GAME. Sorry. Was that the hammer?
No Galz was already there.
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Unvote I guess.
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Also I dont think Jorbles is making Archetype vote for himself over a quoting fail
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Oh and Vote:Grujah
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Chicken
Chicken chicken chicken chicken
Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken
Chicken
Chicken Vote: Insomniac
Chicken Vote: Archetype
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Also I dont think Jorbles is making Archetype vote for himself over a quoting fail
But that would be hilarious.
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Also I dont think Jorbles is making Archetype vote for himself over a quoting fail
But that would be hilarious.
Not for me :P
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And by ALL DAY I mean ALL GAME. Sorry. Was that the hammer?
No, Galzria was already voting for Archetype. My previous post, was mostly to remind people to be more careful before posting, and a little bit mod-trolling. :D
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Cuzz/Galz/Shraeye on Archetype
+1 Robz suspected Archetype
+1 CF suspected Archetype
+1 Shraeye not on Robz lynch
-1 Cuzz/Galz not on ash lynch
-1 Shraeye is super scummy
-1 Galz on Robz Lynch
Net 0. :-\
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I have no read on Archetype right now. What's the case there?
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Also do you really think ash would have put his scumbuddy at the bottom of his suspicion list?
Yes, I absolutely do. I also think scum Arch would adamantly say "I don't like the Ash lynch, we should lynch Frisk, Galz, or Eevee instead".
I also note that he was a very high suspect of both Robz AND CF, for very different reasons.
I'll be putting a full case together with quotes later on the plethora of things that have stood out in his posts.
And speaking of posts, there's been a whopping total of 39. Next lowest is Yuma, at 57, then Joth/Shraeye/Cuzz at nearly double Arch's, in their 70's.
at least half of jos have to be simply chickenvoting for the person he's already voting for :P
Well, the poor guy has been a chicken for like half the game. Which makes Archetype's post count in comparison all the more damning.
Archetype: you still have yet to explain your opposition to the ashersky lynch. Opposing a scum lynch isn't necessarily scummy in and of itself since only scum knows scum for sure, but to do so without reason or explanation is suspicious.
While I'm on Archetype, I find this post really odd (emphasis added):
Hm, looks like Asher put me as his lowest scum read. This doesn't make me look good. :P
Pearl Diver, don't tell who you are. Eevee, if you are indeed the Pearl Diver, what results have you gathered.
I could see Grujah being scum. IIRC, Asher didnt get on the Grujah wagon, and he doesn't seem like the kind of person to throw his buddy under the bus.
Vote: Grujah
Quick Town reads: Cuzz, Yuma, Shraeye, Eevee (if no one counterclaims)
Scum reads: Grujah and Captain_Frisk
A bit neutral on everyone else
The bolded parts seems to demonstrate a lack of knowledge of the game-state and make no sense at all. a. Pearl diver is not an investigative role, b. Eevee already claimed pearl diver, c. You ask the pearl diver to not reveal himself, while asking Eevee to give information if he is pearl diver. These requests are incompatible. And finally d. Arch continues his D2 tunneling of dead confirmed-townie Frisk, later claiming this was a mistake.
This post on its own could be evidence of scum or bad town play, but Archetype's lurky behavior in general (and the ash defense) has been seeming quite scummy to me anyway.
Vote: Archetype
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Vote: shraeye
He is not making huge analysis but sheeping instead.
Not town shra.
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WOrks for me. Declaring intent to hammer. Anyone want to offer a rousing defense?
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WOrks for me. Declaring intent to hammer. Anyone want to offer a rousing defense?
You mean intent to l-1 him?
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oh dammit. Vote: Archetype
but I still think Insom is scum.
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Your right Jo, I would totally try to die to save a PR, and then on day 2 defend my scum buddy so hard that if he got lynched anyways (which I was on remember) I'd be insta scum. Cuz thats how I play scum...
Tempted to hammer
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Hammer Vote: Archetype
It worked out last time me and jo punched as the last 2 votes.
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Vote Count 3.4:
Grujah (1): Archetype
Archetype (5): Cuzz, shraeye, Galzria, jotheonah, Insomniac
shraeye (1): Grujah
Not Voting (2): Eevee, yuma
With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
Currently Cursed: Galzria
Curse deadline: Sunday Nov 4, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
Lynch deadline: Tuesday Nov 6, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
THREAD LOCKED
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The town rounded on Archetype there was something chicken-y about him. (You see what I did there? ;)) The fishing villagers looked at him, Galzria the chicken looked at him, and they all sensed something was off.
Archetype stared back at them and apprehensively said, "Hey guys, what are you doing? I'm not responsible for any of this. I didn't turn anyone into a chicken."
The town wasn't satisfied, ever since Archetype came to town things started getting weird. They ran at him.
Archetype ran from the villagers, narrowly making his way towards the dock. "Guys I swear I'm not a Sea Hag! I don't know how to turn people into chickens!"
The town chased him to the end of the dock. Archetype panicked, "Please please please, don't kill me! I promise I am not a Sea Hag." Suddenly the villager closest to him started to grow feathers. The townspeople had not a minute to lose. They clubbed Archetype about the head and threw him into the ocean, where unconscious he drowned.
Archetype, the Fishing Villager and Curser, has been killed.
The town have satisfied their lust for blood, and Grujah is no longer hated.
Night actions are due in by 2:30 pm PDT tomorrow. If I get them early I may start as early as noon tomorrow. The latest d4 start will be 3:30 pm PDT.
Thread locked.
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Day 4 Start
The town woke up from another restless night. They had grown to used to not being joined by their neighbours to celebrate. A quick head count revealed that not all members of the town were with them. They realized that Galzria was still a chicken and recounted. They were still one member short.
The members of the town were morose, but resigned they had expected this. They trooped over to Eevee's house to see if he was there. He was not, his diving equipment was askew and a few pearls were scattered around his store room. In a heap he lay unmoving beaten to a pulp.
Eevee, the Fishing Village-aligned Pearl Diver, has been killed.
Not Voting (7): yuma, Cuzz, shraeye, Galzria, jotheonah, Insomniac, Grujah
With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch.
Currently Cursed: Galzria
Curse deadline: Sunday Nov 4, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
Lynch deadline: Thursday Nov 8, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
Thread Unlocked
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Well, if we had to lynch a townie, thank god we lynched the curser! One less chicken running around.
Vote: Insomniac, scummiest of all scum or I'm a chicken's uncle.
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I can't believe you guys lynched like that... Not necessarily that you lynched Archetype, but that you rushed into it so much! How about next time we let a little bit more discussion happen before the hammer drops.
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Hi there, mafia eHalc from MVI.
You make all these analyses and still cast no votes?
Perhaps not a big deal, but I do want to clarify this for you and I believe it is what Galz objected to with his chickening. So I posted this and then followed it up with this post:
so of everyone alive, the strikethrough voted for ashersky yesterday:
shrayeye, insomniac, jotheonah, grujah, yuma, Archetype, Cuzz, eevee galzria
meaning that either the scumteam is archetype/Galz/ash or there was bussing yesterday. Galz said he was willing to put ash to L-1, but wasn't willing to put him to lynch. If Galz was scum he was put into an interesting position. Does he hammer his scummate without giving him an opportunity to talk? Or does he not vote? I would expect scumGalz to be willing to hammer a scummate. But would he be willing to hammer him so quick? Hmmm... this is sort of a toss up for me and would like to hear thoughts about it from others.
If the scumteam isn't Galz/archetype then like I said bussing occurred. I think the most likely bussers are insomniac--for only voting realy late--or cuzz for being on and off repeatedly and off at the end.
Right now I would be comfortable with a archetype, cuzz or insomniac vote. But would like to go back and look at each a bit more in depth specifically. Galz is after these three players I think.
wherein I do not vote but explain that I wanted to take a more in depth look at each individually, which you guys prevented me from doing by voting so stinking early!
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Yes, Archetype putting CF on his scummy list was ridiculous. It seems like he was so focused on trying to keep his "reads" consistent, that he didn't notice who died, or let the lynch even change his opinion of other things. I'm highly suspicious of this, and combined with his weird business regarding talking to the PRs, I agree with
Vote: ARchetype
I feel comfortable with a vote: shraeye. He sheeped through all of yesterday, but this sheep was the worst
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Yes, Archetype putting CF on his scummy list was ridiculous. It seems like he was so focused on trying to keep his "reads" consistent, that he didn't notice who died, or let the lynch even change his opinion of other things. I'm highly suspicious of this, and combined with his weird business regarding talking to the PRs, I agree with
Vote: ARchetype
I feel comfortable with a vote: shraeye. He sheeped through all of yesterday, but this sheep was the worst
I think that's funny, because it wasn't even the sheepiest vote I made during day2. It may even be the least sheepy vote I made day 2.
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thoughts:
2 mafia out of 7. Looking at the wagons:
Robz (PR): ash (scum-lynched day 2), Galz, Volt (VT killed Night1), joth, grujah, Frisk (PR killed night2), eevee (PR-killed night3)
Ashersky (scum): gruj, frisk(PR-night2), eevee(PR night3), shray, Insom, joth
Archetype (VT): cuzz, shray, galz, joth, insom
Looking at the list of players, I'd say that Grujah is my biggest townread. He got heavy suspicion for being on Robz wagon near the end, but we already saw that Frisk/Eevee were also in late positions on that wagon. Ashersky was the first on Robz, and obviously never unvoted once he heard Robz claim PR. I suspect that if there are more scum on this wagon, they are more likely to be Galz and joth than Grujah.
Yuma is the only player to have avoided both town wagons so far, but he also wasn't on the ashersky wagon. Also, we cut him off yesterday before he could do some analysis he was planning on doing.
My biggest scumread is Galzria. He was on both townie wagons, off of the ashersky wagon, and is in a position early on Robz's wagon. He was super weird around the claims of ash/eevee/frisk as well.
On an individual level, I still find Eevee the scummiest. However I also find his claim to be slightly more believable than Ashersky.
Ashersky also has the fact that he was chickened at a time when it looked like we were going to trust all chickens (at the very least not lynch them).
Of the three, I think Ashersky has the highest chance of being a lie, but I'm willing to lynch Eevee off base scumminess as well. CF I think will have to wait until another day, or hopefully he'll be able to prove his claim.
Haven't caught up yet, but starting to read. My biggest scum read yesterday was Eevee, which I was obviously wrong on. Following him were Arch and Ash. Ash went down as scum, and others have drawn connections to Arch over it. I need to reread him still, but that would be my preferred direction today based on what I've seen and feel from days past.
The thing about Eevee... Is he was willing to actually claim his role right after claiming PR - no thought of a counter-claim... Or at least, no worry of one. Which makes me think his PR claim is true(r).
He is constantly flipping around ashersky and eevee. He says that eevee's claim rings truest of the three, but that eevee is his #1 scum read while ashersky was his #3 read. And his vote ends up on Archetype on day 2. Seriously, go back and read some of the comments that he put down near the end of day 2.
[BY FRISK]
This actually really interesting. Forcing claims today will prevent mislynch tomorrow, but will guarantee that the cutpurse dies tonight.
if asher is town - then we absolutely want the claims. If asher is scum, we don't. Because i believe asher is scum, I'm willing to chance it.
This is exactly what I'm teetering on. Town Ash = claiming good. Scum Ash = claiming bad.
Why teeter, if you think ashersky is your 3rd biggest scumread? And when ashersky is at L-1 and Insomniac gives intent to hammer
3.5 hours to go, right? We should wait for Ashersky to respond if possible... Although outside of actually forcing claims, I don't know what would change.
Another interesting aspect of Galzria that pops out as I scroll through his posts, is that he is very often talking to or responding to Insomniac. This along with Insom's bus-type position on ashersky make me slightly suspicious of insom as well.
Vote: Galzria
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Looking at other people based mostly on my rememberance and their wagon positions.
yuma [mostly neutral, slightly town]
galz [huge scumread]
insom [light suspicion]
grujah[very town]
joth[medium scumread, had an early place on Robz and kept it despite claim shenanigans; classic bus position on ashersky]
cuzz[neutral--very minor suspicion for being on eevee at end of day 2, offset by being in the least suspicious position on archetype lynch]
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Chicken vote: Shraeye
Chicken vote: Insomniac
Chicken vote: Jotheonah
Chicken Vote: Shrayeye
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Chicken Vote: Yuma
Chicken
Chicken Chicken Chicken Chicken
Chicken Chicken Chicken Chicken Chicken Chicken Chicken Chicken
Chicken Chicken Chicken Chicken Chicken
Chicken
Chicken Vote: Shraeye
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vote: Shraeye
FYI I quick hammered because Eevee wasn't cursed. And if he's cursed he can't dive. Mafia was counting on a longer day to curse later
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shraeye allow me to clarify:
The case on archetype by Cuzz, is as follows:
Also do you really think ash would have put his scumbuddy at the bottom of his suspicion list?
Yes, I absolutely do. I also think scum Arch would adamantly say "I don't like the Ash lynch, we should lynch Frisk, Galz, or Eevee instead".
I also note that he was a very high suspect of both Robz AND CF, for very different reasons.
I'll be putting a full case together with quotes later on the plethora of things that have stood out in his posts.
And speaking of posts, there's been a whopping total of 39. Next lowest is Yuma, at 57, then Joth/Shraeye/Cuzz at nearly double Arch's, in their 70's.
at least half of jos have to be simply chickenvoting for the person he's already voting for :P
Well, the poor guy has been a chicken for like half the game. Which makes Archetype's post count in comparison all the more damning.
Archetype: you still have yet to explain your opposition to the ashersky lynch. Opposing a scum lynch isn't necessarily scummy in and of itself since only scum knows scum for sure, but to do so without reason or explanation is suspicious.
While I'm on Archetype, I find this post really odd (emphasis added):
Hm, looks like Asher put me as his lowest scum read. This doesn't make me look good. :P
Pearl Diver, don't tell who you are. Eevee, if you are indeed the Pearl Diver, what results have you gathered.
I could see Grujah being scum. IIRC, Asher didnt get on the Grujah wagon, and he doesn't seem like the kind of person to throw his buddy under the bus.
Vote: Grujah
Quick Town reads: Cuzz, Yuma, Shraeye, Eevee (if no one counterclaims)
Scum reads: Grujah and Captain_Frisk
A bit neutral on everyone else
The bolded parts seems to demonstrate a lack of knowledge of the game-state and make no sense at all. a. Pearl diver is not an investigative role, b. Eevee already claimed pearl diver, c. You ask the pearl diver to not reveal himself, while asking Eevee to give information if he is pearl diver. These requests are incompatible. And finally d. Arch continues his D2 tunneling of dead confirmed-townie Frisk, later claiming this was a mistake.
This post on its own could be evidence of scum or bad town play, but Archetype's lurky behavior in general (and the ash defense) has been seeming quite scummy to me anyway.
Vote: Archetype
to which you responded and quoted the above:
Yes, Archetype putting CF on his scummy list was ridiculous. It seems like he was so focused on trying to keep his "reads" consistent, that he didn't notice who died, or let the lynch even change his opinion of other things. I'm highly suspicious of this, and combined with his weird business regarding talking to the PRs, I agree with
Vote: ARchetype
the reason I find this sheep the worst is because you contradict the very quote that you sheep. In Cuzz's analysis he determines that Archetype's putting CF on his scummy list and lack of knowledge about the game was more likely just bad town play and not the real basis of Cuzz's vote. However, this is what you jump on exclusively in your vote. Cuzz's vote is more based on lurkiness and defense of ash, whereas your vote only involves his CF read and talking to PRs. You saw a wagon form and joined it w/o really looking into what the case was.
The other sheeps aren't great either as you don't provide any unique info. But at least you don't contradict the quote you sheep there. I find all three of your sheeps suspicious, but I am voting you because of your bad sheep on archetype and because it was archetype that eventually was lynched. That automatically makes it worse.
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Chicken.
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Am I right in thinking my priate little war against Insom isn't really going anywhere? He did derphammer yesterday.
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Vote: Insomniac
For previous stuff and so.
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vote: Shraeye
FYI I quick hammered because Eevee wasn't cursed. And if he's cursed he can't dive. Mafia was counting on a longer day to curse later
@JO
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I almost believed that.
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vote: Shraeye
FYI I quick hammered because Eevee wasn't cursed. And if he's cursed he can't dive. Mafia was counting on a longer day to curse later
I believe it. That's pretty clever, Insom.
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vote: Shraeye
FYI I quick hammered because Eevee wasn't cursed. And if he's cursed he can't dive. Mafia was counting on a longer day to curse later
Not buying this at all.
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vote: Shraeye
FYI I quick hammered because Eevee wasn't cursed. And if he's cursed he can't dive. Mafia was counting on a longer day to curse later
@JO
Then why didn't you say so when you hammered. Or did you only realize it was a valid excuse during the night? I don't remember any discussion of this at all, in fact I didn't even know it was part of the rules until you said this and I went to look it up.
And while it was a smart town move--if that is what you actually intended to do the curse deadline was
Curse deadline: Sunday Nov 4, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
meaning that when you hammered on November 1 we still had just less than 3 days to discuss and talk. It wasn't like we were up against the curse deadline or anything!
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Oh yes, that is true about the 3 days left thing. There I go not checking facts again.
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Didn't say it because I realized when I expressed intent to hammer that no was likely to Unvote.
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Jo I don't get why your tunneling me so hard, I don't think your scum here but stop being so hard headed and look at some facts. Grujah I do think your scum so it makes sense your tunneling me.
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Vote Count 4.1
Insomniac (2): jotheonah, Grujah
shraeye (3): yuma, Galzria, Insomniac (L-1)
Galzria (1): shraeye
Not Voting (1): Cuzz
With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch.
Currently Cursed: Galzria
Curse deadline: Sunday Nov 4, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
Lynch deadline: Thursday Nov 8, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
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I'm OK with Shra lynch. I am declaring my viligness to hammer.
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Actually I think I might be wrong about Insomniac.
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remember my reads.
galz>joth>cuzz are scummy in that order. Galz is large, cuzz is slight scum.
insomniac neutral.
yuma slight town, grujah is my biggest townread.
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y'all are silly for lynching me. if i remember correctly the reasons are "sheeps" and "isn't anaylzing things like town shraeye."
f.DS has this weird idea that people should act the same every time they're town, and if they're acting different, then they can't be town.
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Didn't say it because I realized when I expressed intent to hammer that no was likely to Unvote.
So.... That isn't answering my concern.
That you thought no one was going to unvote doesn't change the fact that you could have explained why you were hammering (supposedly to allow the pearl diver the chance to dive w/o being cursed) when you hammered. Instead, you waited until the next day. This makes it look like you weren't thinking of the pearl diver when you hammered, but instead realized it during the night.
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y'all are silly for lynching me. if i remember correctly the reasons are "sheeps" and "isn't anaylzing things like town shraeye."
f.DS has this weird idea that people should act the same every time they're town, and if they're acting different, then they can't be town.
"sheeps" doesn't quite encompass my vote on you... Do I need to explain it again? I'll try to briefly do so.
I am voting for you because, the last of 3 sheeps in a row was one in which you reference a case (Cuzz's) and then contradict it. To me this looks like you saw a building wagon and wanted to quickly jump onto it. You saw an opportunity to get on it early and did so w/o fully understanding the case as it was presented.
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From Cuzz:
The bolded parts seems to demonstrate a lack of knowledge of the game-state and make no sense at all. a. Pearl diver is not an investigative role, b. Eevee already claimed pearl diver, c. You ask the pearl diver to not reveal himself, while asking Eevee to give information if he is pearl diver. These requests are incompatible. And finally d. Arch continues his D2 tunneling of dead confirmed-townie Frisk, later claiming this was a mistake.
This post on its own could be evidence of scum or bad town play, but Archetype's lurky behavior in general (and the ash defense) has been seeming quite scummy to me anyway.
I say
Yes, Archetype putting CF on his scummy list was ridiculous. It seems like he was so focused on trying to keep his "reads" consistent, that he didn't notice who died, or let the lynch even change his opinion of other things. I'm highly suspicious of this, and combined with his weird business regarding talking to the PRs, I agree with
Vote: ARchetype
So yuma says
the reason I find this sheep the worst is because you contradict the very quote that you sheep. In Cuzz's analysis he determines that Archetype's putting CF on his scummy list and lack of knowledge about the game was more likely just bad town play and not the real basis of Cuzz's vote. However, this is what you jump on exclusively in your vote. Cuzz's vote is more based on lurkiness and defense of ash, whereas your vote only involves his CF read and talking to PRs. You saw a wagon form and joined it w/o really looking into what the case was.
But my sheep doesn't contradict Cuzz's case. You're summary of Cuzz's case is that he determintes that Archetypes odd actions were more likely to be bad town play and weren't the real basis of cuzz's vote. But just look at the bolded sentence above. Cuzz says that this could be either bad town or scum, but doesn't bother to analyze the distinction because of the other scumminess based off of lurkiness and defense of ash.
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From Cuzz:
The bolded parts seems to demonstrate a lack of knowledge of the game-state and make no sense at all. a. Pearl diver is not an investigative role, b. Eevee already claimed pearl diver, c. You ask the pearl diver to not reveal himself, while asking Eevee to give information if he is pearl diver. These requests are incompatible. And finally d. Arch continues his D2 tunneling of dead confirmed-townie Frisk, later claiming this was a mistake.
This post on its own could be evidence of scum or bad town play, but Archetype's lurky behavior in general (and the ash defense) has been seeming quite scummy to me anyway.
I say
Yes, Archetype putting CF on his scummy list was ridiculous. It seems like he was so focused on trying to keep his "reads" consistent, that he didn't notice who died, or let the lynch even change his opinion of other things. I'm highly suspicious of this, and combined with his weird business regarding talking to the PRs, I agree with
Vote: ARchetype
So yuma says
the reason I find this sheep the worst is because you contradict the very quote that you sheep. In Cuzz's analysis he determines that Archetype's putting CF on his scummy list and lack of knowledge about the game was more likely just bad town play and not the real basis of Cuzz's vote. However, this is what you jump on exclusively in your vote. Cuzz's vote is more based on lurkiness and defense of ash, whereas your vote only involves his CF read and talking to PRs. You saw a wagon form and joined it w/o really looking into what the case was.
But my sheep doesn't contradict Cuzz's case. You're summary of Cuzz's case is that he determintes that Archetypes odd actions were more likely to be bad town play and weren't the real basis of cuzz's vote. But just look at the bolded sentence above. Cuzz says that this could be either bad town or scum, but doesn't bother to analyze the distinction because of the other scumminess based off of lurkiness and defense of ash.
You do raise a good, and accurate point. For now I will unvote. I still think that even if Cuzz intended that to be part of his case it was the weakest point, and the part you latched onto, whereas archetype's defense of ash and lurking had more significance but was ignored by you.
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After the very public defended/not defended Grujah debacle with eHalcyon/Munch, i've thought that scum would be very wary when defending their partners. I didn't really focus on Archetype's defense of ashersky, and as you can see it's not a basis for the vote that I gave. Also, Archetype very often has a lower post count. I htink that persecuting Archetype for lurking is just too easy of a thing for someone to do, and I wasn't willing to vote Archetype just because he had some "lurkiness". The part I said, however, did make him look very bad in my eyes.
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Two questions.
Insomniac, what's your reason for voting for me? I went to check and you voted for me in the same post where you clarified why you quickhammered.
Grujah, why are you ok with being hammer on the shraeye lynch, when your scumread Insomniac is the one who put me to L-1?
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Cuz I think you are likely to be scum, and I might be wrong about Ins. I cannot base all my assumptions on Ins = scum like it is certain when it is not. Thing that he is 3rd on wagon and L-1 doesn't help him, but I cannot change my mind solely on that action. I am still voting for him, though.
yuma very scummy if you flip scum.
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Cuz I think you are likely to be scum, and I might be wrong about Ins. I cannot base all my assumptions on Ins = scum like it is certain when it is not. Thing that he is 3rd on wagon and L-1 doesn't help him, but I cannot change my mind solely on that action. I am still voting for him, though.
yuma very scummy if you flip scum.
I am not concerned about looking scummy or not. I am concerned about lynching scum. And shraeye pointed out that one of my biggest points in why I find him scummy was flawed, so I unvoted, at least until I can determine if my vote should remain there despite that, or if my vote is better spent elsewhere.
Do you think I should have kept my vote there despite my flawed case?
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Cuz I think you are likely to be scum, and I might be wrong about Ins. I cannot base all my assumptions on Ins = scum like it is certain when it is not. Thing that he is 3rd on wagon and L-1 doesn't help him, but I cannot change my mind solely on that action. I am still voting for him, though.
yuma very scummy if you flip scum.
While I was 3rd on today I did want to lynch him yesterday.
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Some catching up to do, but wanted to pop in to say I'm not in favor of a shraeye lynch.
I thought ashersky made a slip at one point in which he admitted knowing shraeye was town, as I outlined here:
I wasn't so sure about this case at the time since it was a small thing, (I had asked for some feedback from others which no one ever gave) but I think now that I might have been right given that ashersky flipped scum, i.e. that this really was a scumslip, and thus shraeye actually is town.
To change the subject somewhat, Jo, can you please elaborate on this at all:
Actually I think I might be wrong about Insomniac.
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Oh, it's just I've been getting a town read from his annoyance at my tunneling.
It's like, when you're scum and town is tunneling on you against all reason, it's hard to get really upset with them because on some level you know they're right, and you're worried that if you blow up they'll look righter. When you're town and someone is tunneling on you though, it's just really annoying and you can be totally righteous with your anger. It's not foolproof by any means, but it feels townish.
Unfortunately, I don't know who else to look to. I haven't followed this game well because I've been a chicken so much.
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Thread Locked.
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Vote Count 4.2 and Curse
Galzria becomes human again. shraeye turns into a chicken. (sorry no time for flavour, gotta go grocery shopping.)
Insomniac (2): jotheonah, Grujah
shraeye (2): Galzria, Insomniac
Galzria (1): shraeye
Not Voting (2): Cuzz, yuma
With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch.
Currently Cursed: shraeye
Curse deadline: Wednesday Nov 7, Noon PST (3 pm forum time) (Daylight Savings is OVER.)
Lynch deadline: Thursday Nov 8, Noon PST (3 pm forum time)
Thread unlocked.
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Chic....
I'm FREE!
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Chic....
I'm FREE!
and now that you can talk, what have you to say?
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Chic....
I'm FREE!
and now that you can talk, what have you to say?
Well, I think Shraeye is scum. I'm on the fence about Ins/Gruj. I've thought they were both town since D1, but I'm (obviously) not above making mistakes. Being a chicken, my focus lately has been focused on other games.
If I had to choose scum between Insomniac/Grujah, I would choose Insomniac. As I mentioned yesterday, in a vacuum I see his D1 play MUCH more likely to be a scum gambit than Grujah's claim. That said.... Blah. I just don't think Insomniac is scum. Although it's almost like he's gone out of his way to play up his "eh, whatever, I don't care anymore" playstyle this game.
...
Basically, I have no idea between those two, but unless it comes down to them and me in lylo, I still think they're both town.
I'm voting Shrae, and I'm happy enough with my vote there.
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So how would you describe your vote on shraeye, or what is your case on him. I had my case on him, but it was pointed out that it was mostly based on a crucial misinterpretation on my part. Is there something different in your vote than there was in mine?
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*Crickets*
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REVOTE: Shraeye
Conversation in here guys?
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I recently posted something with evidence that suggested to me that shraeye is likely town based on something ashersky had said. Now I might be wrong obviously but no one has even responded to it, and since then galz and insomniac have reaffirmed their vote for shraeye.
So, do either galz or insom have any comment on this?
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@Cuzz: I don't find your case compelling. I don't like "scumslips" and I think ash putting him at near bottom is scummy (scummier than at the bottom where he put archetype). And Shraeye has been ridiculously wagon/sheep happy. Like I have said numerous times I think there is one scum on the bottom of ashs suspicion list and one near the top
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A while back people were thinking Galzria was scum. How do we feel about that now? Also, we can now say with certainty that all cursing is being done intentionally by the scum team. Does that change the value of cursing WIFOM in this game?
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i.e., does the chicken-cursing of shraeye and it's timing seem to make him more or less likely to be scum in your eyes?
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A while back people were thinking Galzria was scum. How do we feel about that now? Also, we can now say with certainty that all cursing is being done intentionally by the scum team. Does that change the value of cursing WIFOM in this game?
I think it makes the cursing a bit more easy to analyze, like Why did they silence this person is it to buy town cred were they onto them etc. Before there was more confusion ie which is random which is not.
I still think Galz could be scum but I'm slightly less inclined to think he is then my main 2 suspects, Grujah and Shraeye.
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*Crickets*
You could have been answering this concern that you skirted around the first time and completely ignored the second time:
Didn't say it because I realized when I expressed intent to hammer that no was likely to Unvote.
So.... That isn't answering my concern.
That you thought no one was going to unvote doesn't change the fact that you could have explained why you were hammering (supposedly to allow the pearl diver the chance to dive w/o being cursed) when you hammered. Instead, you waited until the next day. This makes it look like you weren't thinking of the pearl diver when you hammered, but instead realized it during the night.
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*Crickets*
You could have been answering this concern that you skirted around the first time and completely ignored the second time:
Didn't say it because I realized when I expressed intent to hammer that no was likely to Unvote.
So.... That isn't answering my concern.
That you thought no one was going to unvote doesn't change the fact that you could have explained why you were hammering (supposedly to allow the pearl diver the chance to dive w/o being cursed) when you hammered. Instead, you waited until the next day. This makes it look like you weren't thinking of the pearl diver when you hammered, but instead realized it during the night.
Wanted to get the post up quickly before Jo or someone else with a scum read on me unvoted. And no I was thinking of the pearl diver when I hammered though of course you won't believe me.
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still not good enough for me... It isn't that hard to say as such... and why the worry that someone would unvote? That would have been great as it would have provided more opportunity to discuss.
And did you make an effort to make a second post before the thread was locked... yes I know that there was just over 1 minute between your post and jorbles lock... but plenty of time to say "FYI I hammered because I wanted to make sure eevee would have the chance to dive w/o being turned into a chicken."
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still not good enough for me... It isn't that hard to say as such... and why the worry that someone would unvote? That would have been great as it would have provided more opportunity to discuss.
And did you make an effort to make a second post before the thread was locked... yes I know that there was just over 1 minute between your post and jorbles lock... but plenty of time to say "FYI I hammered because I wanted to make sure eevee would have the chance to dive w/o being turned into a chicken."
Yes, and when I hit post I saw 1 post had come in and it was the thread lock.
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Regardless of that when the game is over Jorbles will post the PM I sent him explaining why I quickhammered because I sent him the reasoning when I saw I couldn't post it here. And yuma it's not like you've been a huge contributor this game, why should I believe your town when your tunneling so god damn hard on another townie. Even if I was scum tunneling is still anti-town as it's not allowing you to look at the bigger picture.
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still not good enough for me... It isn't that hard to say as such... and why the worry that someone would unvote? That would have been great as it would have provided more opportunity to discuss.
And did you make an effort to make a second post before the thread was locked... yes I know that there was just over 1 minute between your post and jorbles lock... but plenty of time to say "FYI I hammered because I wanted to make sure eevee would have the chance to dive w/o being turned into a chicken."
Yes, and when I hit post I saw 1 post had come in and it was the thread lock.
alright... I can't dispute that obviously... but man I certainly had to drag this information out of you.
And to answer the next post... I have contributed, at least as much as my schedule has allowed me to do so. And if tunneling is trying to get an accurate idea of what went down at a lynch that I wasn't present at because it ended while I was in school.... and not just blindly accepting a statement from you as true well then tunneling has suddenly become pro-town.
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Heres the thing yuma, I get why you don't accept my statement without "dragging" it out but really think about how I've played scum, do you think I'm going to risk quickhammering and then come up with a defense for it as scum, or do you think I'm more likely to wait it out before hammering or even still NOT hammer.
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Insomniac's response gave me a really weird vibe. And not for the first time. His apathetic attitude of "Well I just don't want to be in this town anymore so just lynch me" along with his calling anybody who critiques him as anti-town tunneling come off extremely disingenuous. He's been combative and overly aggressive, and taken a "see if I care this town is stupid anyway" attitude that I really have a hard time accepting from town Insomniac.
Does anybody else get this feeling from him?
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Insomniac's response gave me a really weird vibe. And not for the first time. His apathetic attitude of "Well I just don't want to be in this town anymore so just lynch me" along with his calling anybody who critiques him as anti-town tunneling come off extremely disingenuous. He's been combative and overly aggressive, and taken a "see if I care this town is stupid anyway" attitude that I really have a hard time accepting from town Insomniac.
Does anybody else get this feeling from him?
I've been angry at this game since we lynched our cop day 1.
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Heres the thing yuma, I get why you don't accept my statement without "dragging" it out but really think about how I've played scum, do you think I'm going to risk quickhammering and then come up with a defense for it as scum, or do you think I'm more likely to wait it out before hammering or even still NOT hammer.
that is what I am trying to figure out. But first I needed to at least attempt to get the facts figured out and get a full statement from you.
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Insomniac's response gave me a really weird vibe. And not for the first time. His apathetic attitude of "Well I just don't want to be in this town anymore so just lynch me" along with his calling anybody who critiques him as anti-town tunneling come off extremely disingenuous. He's been combative and overly aggressive, and taken a "see if I care this town is stupid anyway" attitude that I really have a hard time accepting from town Insomniac.
Does anybody else get this feeling from him?
I've been angry at this game since we lynched our cop day 1.
I didn't ask you.
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Insomniac has also used the "Scum me wouldn't play that way" more than I think has ever been used in all f.DS games combined. It's like permanently attached as a sig in all his messages.
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Insomniac's response gave me a really weird vibe. And not for the first time. His apathetic attitude of "Well I just don't want to be in this town anymore so just lynch me" along with his calling anybody who critiques him as anti-town tunneling come off extremely disingenuous. He's been combative and overly aggressive, and taken a "see if I care this town is stupid anyway" attitude that I really have a hard time accepting from town Insomniac.
Does anybody else get this feeling from him?
I've been angry at this game since we lynched our cop day 1.
I didn't ask you.
Actually since the way you wrote your question does not implicitly not include me it therefore explicitly includes me. So you did ask me, along with everyone who is not you.
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7 people left? 2 scum? If I die it goes to LyLo?
(5 Town v 2 scum, less 2 town is 3 Town v 2 Scum)
Vote: Insomniac
yuma/Galz whichever of you is scum go ahead and hammer. I dare you.
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7 people left? 2 scum? If I die it goes to LyLo?
(5 Town v 2 scum, less 2 town is 3 Town v 2 Scum)
Vote: Insomniac
yuma/Galz whichever of you is scum go ahead and hammer. I dare you.
And yet you have the audacity to call other people's questioning of your actions as "tunneling" and "anti-town"?
Sure, fine. Vote: Insomniac
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Congrats Galz, You've caused our cop to get lynched and now caused the town to go to LyLo. Enjoy.
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Thread Locked.
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Day 4 Lynch
Insomniac (4): jotheonah, Grujah, Insomniac, Galzria
Galzria (1): shraeye
Not Voting (2): Cuzz, yuma
Of all the townspeople Insomniac was the most upset by all the cursing and chickens.
"Kill me," he shouted. "I can't take it anymore."
The town responded, "Are you a Sea Hag?"
"I don't even care. You don't know that I'm not! I just can't take it anymore! I probably am!"
Insomniac said he wanted to climb to the top of the building and jump off, so the townspeople got him a ladder, and apprehensively watched him.
Climbing to the top of the tallest building in town Insomniac shouted, "Lookout below, here comes a Sea Hag," and leapt.
He crunched into the pavement.
Insomniac, the Fishing Villager, has been killed.
Night actions are due in to me by 2 p.m. PST. If I get them in early I may start as early as Noon PST.
Thread Still Locked.
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Day 5 Start
The town wakes up after a restless night of sleep and meet to discuss things over brunch. They are told the diner is all out of breakfast foods so lunch it is.
After finishing their meal they ask to speak to the chef about the delicious chicken sandwiches they were served. Wait a minute, chicken sandwiches...
"Where's shraeye?" someone asks.
shraeye, the Fishing Villager, has been killed.
Not voting (5): jotheonah, Grujah, Galzria, Cuzz, yuma
With 5 alive it takes 3 to lynch.
Currently Cursed: No one.
Curse Deadline: Wednesday Nov 7, Noon PST (3 pm forum time)
Lynch Deadline: Monday Nov 12, 1 pm PST (4 pm forum time)
Thread Unlocked
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This is lylo right?
I'd say invisiyuma strikes again.
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This is lylo right?
I'd say invisiyuma strikes again.
Yes, this is LyLo, and I will frickin' snap if we have a repeat of MXII, so we need to be cautious with voting and talk a lot about what has happened so far and whom everyone suspects. Scum can easily avoid suspicion at this stage if no one is pressuring them to talk, and talking a lot gives more material to analyze for slips and inconsistencies. If anyone hastily votes before everyone has had their say then we deserve to lose.
To start, we have 4 wagons to analyze, 3 town and one scum:
Robz (town) wagon: ashersky, Galz, Volt, joth, Grujah, Frisk, Eevee
ashersky (scum) wagon: Grujah, Frisk, Eevee, shraeye, Insomniac, joth
Archetype (town) wagon: Cuzz, shraeye, Galz, joth, Insomniac
Insomniac (town) wagon: joth, Grujah, Insomniac, Galz
Things to note:
-2 scum among Grujah, yuma, Galz, and joth (from my perspective of course).
-3 living players on each town wagon, only 2 on ashersky's wagon.
-Galz was on every town wagon, but not ashersky's.
-joth has been on every lynch wagon.
-yuma has been on no lynch wagons.
I think the most informative ones to look at are the lynches of ashersky and Insomniac. ashersky was scum, and I would expect at least one of his partners to have bussed him. Insomniac was town and his lynch put us at LyLo, so I feel like scum would have jumped at the chance to lynch him.
I feel then like we're looking at at least one scum among joth and Grujah for being on both of the above wagons. FWIW townie Insomniac seemed certain that Grujah was scum. Galz also looks suspicious for his hammer of Insomniac, and for pushing the lynch of Robz after he had claimed a PR. yuma is an enigma to me, as he has mostly posted large isolated blocks of content without much direct interaction with any other players. I had a townread on him early, but I could easily see him being scum who somehow managed to just fly under the radar and avoid major suspicion for most of the game.
For now I find Grujah and Galz most suspicious, but I really don't feel super confident of my reads in this game at the moment.
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-yuma has been on no lynch wagons.
Makes me suspect yuma way more. What townie does this.
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There is this lovely paradox in mafia. This is all for town only.
If you enjoy the game, you play well. If you play well, you get nightkilled.
If you don't enjoy the game, you play badly. If you play badly, you get left alive.
Therefore, those who are the most into a game are the most likely to be out of it, and those who are the most lukewarm on a game are most likely to live to the end of it.
This is all a long way of saying that I've lurked my way to being a liability pretty much all game, and I still have barely any reads to speak of. I'll be back on some time tomorrow.
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There is this lovely paradox in mafia. This is all for town only.
If you enjoy the game, you play well. If you play well, you get nightkilled.
If you don't enjoy the game, you play badly. If you play badly, you get left alive.
Therefore, those who are the most into a game are the most likely to be out of it, and those who are the most lukewarm on a game are most likely to live to the end of it.
This is all a long way of saying that I've lurked my way to being a liability pretty much all game, and I still have barely any reads to speak of. I'll be back on some time tomorrow.
This comes off as sincere to me, but it's frustrating to read. If you actually are town, this is disappointing because it's three on two and we'll all have to agree to have a chance at pulling this out. I'm sure it was annoying to have a post-restriction for most of the game, but you're still playing and should be playing to your win condition for the sake of your team. It was already super-frustrating to know that there were at least four townies who lynched our most powerful PR, and then Insomniac got fed up and basically committed suicide to put us at LyLo. And now no one but me seems to be playing anymore. Jesus, at least let us lose for bad town play instead of apathy.
But what the hell do I know, you're probably scum anyway. My reads are garbage in this game.
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I want to be helpful now. It's just hard - I don't have time to reread everything and I don't have many reads. If people want to point me to particularly relevant events/ passages, or lay out the salient cases, it would help me to get back on the engaged town bandwagon.
I know that's a lot to ask. If not, I can do a reread Saturday probably.
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I want to be helpful now. It's just hard - I don't have time to reread everything and I don't have many reads. If people want to point me to particularly relevant events/ passages, or lay out the salient cases, it would help me to get back on the engaged town bandwagon.
I know that's a lot to ask. If not, I can do a reread Saturday probably.
For now you can comment on my wagon analysis above if you like. I'm gonna try to write up my thoughts on all living players but probably won't have it posted until later tonight. I'll see how that goes, last time I wrote up only one player before the game ended :(.
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THe key thing here, from my perspective, is that Galz was on every. town. wagon.
And not on the scum wagon.
And yuma's been on no wagons, which is a great place for scum to be if we're lynching like we have been.
So those are my two most likely scum reads.
Galzira is tricky. I consider him a good player, so the badness of this voting record jumps out at me. But I also consider him a good scum player, so the obviousness of this voting record jumps out at me from that perspective.
I think yuma (who is pretty V/LA right now, unfortunately) is a good candidate for a focused re-read when I have the time.
Of course, I've been on ALL THE WAGONS and I was pushing Insom pretty hard. Also at the end of the day yesterday I said I was starting to think Insom was town, but I didn't actually unvote him. Sooo that looks pretty bad, eh? I actually thought I had unvoted him, and I was pretty upset to find him lynched with me on his wagon.
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Why on earth did Insom self-vote us to lylo when one of the people on his wagon had already said he thought he was town! That is such frustratingly bad play!
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Vote Count 5.1 and Curse
At noon the town clock chimes. Everyone looks at each other expectantly, but nothing happens.
Not voting (5): jotheonah, Grujah, Galzria, Cuzz, yuma
With 5 alive it takes 3 to lynch.
Currently Cursed: No one.
Curse Deadline: Saturday Nov 10, Noon PST (3 pm forum time)
Lynch Deadline: Monday Nov 12, 1 pm PST (4 pm forum time)
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This is lylo right?
I'd say invisiyuma strikes again.
Grujah you have been trying to pin me with this stigma all game long. I have repeatedly pointed out that you were wrong to which you have repeatedly ignored me. Should I try again? Or will you again ignore what I have to say?
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-yuma has been on no lynch wagons.
Makes me suspect yuma way more. What townie does this.
This is new. Explain that.
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And where is Galz?
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First post Day 2 from Grujah
Post by: Grujah on October 24, 2012, 02:02:06 pm
Torn between Eevee and Ins, ash and shareye come after that. than invisiyuma and CF, than jo, arch, galz and cuzz.
Vote... hmm.
Eevee
to which I respond with
Post by: yuma on October 24, 2012, 04:19:15 pm
I will be "invisiyuma" for 19 hours everyday weekday. There is nothing I can do about that. I have a 5 hour posting window from 4 p.m. to 9 p.m. Mountain Daylight time. Any other time I am 1. sleeping; 2. at work; 3. at rotations. I am no longer one of the lucky ones who can post at work. I posted this in the VLA thread way before this game started and have explained my situation in this game as well. But it seems I need to do so again.
So before you call me "invisiyuma", go back and check my posts during my available times. I think you will find that I am not invisible then.
to which you never responded
First non-chicken, legal post of Day 3
Post by: Grujah on November 01, 2012, 02:04:52 pm
yuma had a grand total of 2 votes on him, one being me mistaking Galz for him while I was drunk.
What's the vote tally?
First post of Day 4
Post by: Grujah on November 06, 2012, 02:15:52 pm
This is lylo right?
I'd say invisiyuma strikes again.
This game I have had 73 posts. You have had 170. Galz is at 129. Cuzz is at 83. Jot is at 90. Do you have any reason for saying that i am "invisiyuma" or are you just trying to build this stigma around my reputation?
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-yuma has been on no lynch wagons.
Makes me suspect yuma way more. What townie does this.
This is new. Explain that.
I don't know what you want me to explain. I wasn't on any of the lynches. It wasn't like I wasn't voting, but it is hard to be on the lynches when the lynches either occur 1. at the deadline when I am not available to be online or 2. fast as lightening with quickhammers. I am not sure what you want from me here?
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-yuma has been on no lynch wagons.
Makes me suspect yuma way more. What townie does this.
This did make me curious thou... and I looked up in the stat sheet I compiled for people who went entire games without voting, here is what I found.
Game II - Insomniac didn't vote in all 3 days. He was town
Game VI - Glooble didn't vote in all 5 days. He was a serial killer
Game VII - manda didn't vote in all 3 days. Manda was town (but a serial lurker)
Game VIII - (which you modded remember) theorel didn't vote until the very end of the game in lylo when he mislynched Galz to lose the game - he was town
Game IX - Captain Frisk didn't vote through day 3, when he was lynched - he was scum
So to answer your question, it appears that town and scum do this.
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Yuma: well, you're response. And post count doesn't matter when I find you invisible, i.e. - can't remember anything you stood for the whole game.
Main target as of now: Galz. For hammer which he might have though to be able to "get away with" like O did in previous game and cuz Ins already self-voted and stuff and for me not finding him suspicion at all during the whole game, which is not normal.
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Yuma: well, you're response. And post count doesn't matter when I find you invisible, i.e. - can't remember anything you stood for the whole game.
Sure... post count doesn't matter, but I guess I am just surprised that you think I don't have opinions. Are you one of the players that doens't like to read huge posts? I tend to write those over short posts, especially when I have no one to have a back and forth conversation with online with me.
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FYI: Jot, right now has my highest scum read and will be my focus in rereading
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Yuma: well, you're response. And post count doesn't matter when I find you invisible, i.e. - can't remember anything you stood for the whole game.
Sure... post count doesn't matter, but I guess I am just surprised that you think I don't have opinions. Are you one of the players that doens't like to read huge posts? I tend to write those over short posts, especially when I have no one to have a back and forth conversation with online with me.
Me usually scimming huge posts does seem to effect the game.
Also at galz he was very quickly to jump on Ins's "let's massclaim D2" idea.. hmm.
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So joth... didn't do a full reread, but more of a general skim of the last few days
my main concern with him really stemmed from this post
Of course, I've been on ALL THE WAGONS and I was pushing Insom pretty hard. Also at the end of the day yesterday I said I was starting to think Insom was town, but I didn't actually unvote him. Sooo that looks pretty bad, eh? I actually thought I had unvoted him, and I was pretty upset to find him lynched with me on his wagon.
Because, well it does look bad. What were your reasons for beginning to think he was more town by the way?
The other post of his that jumped out to me was this
There is this lovely paradox in mafia. This is all for town only.
If you enjoy the game, you play well. If you play well, you get nightkilled.
If you don't enjoy the game, you play badly. If you play badly, you get left alive.
Therefore, those who are the most into a game are the most likely to be out of it, and those who are the most lukewarm on a game are most likely to live to the end of it.
This is all a long way of saying that I've lurked my way to being a liability pretty much all game, and I still have barely any reads to speak of. I'll be back on some time tomorrow.
wherein jot basically says that he hasn't really been paying that much attention to it and isn't that invested in it. I find this to be a weird comment from someone who has voted on, as he said, "ALL THE WAGONS." For someone who has lurked and has had barely any reads, jot sure has expressed his votes. Joth are you saying that you shouldn't be accountable for your votes since you really didn't have accurate reads on the people that you voted for because you have lurked through the game? That is kinda what I am interpreting this as.
I also noted that he being in the hammer position on ashersky to be relatively scummy, ie, a good place for a bus. But in reading back I discovered that jot was on the ash wagon a little bit earlier the first time he voted, in the 4th position. He did unvote and revote and unvote and revote a couple of times there, but so did a lot of other people in that crazy end of day.
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I've mostly been sheeping reads of people I trust. But that's getting harder cause I don't really trust anybody.
I think I already said, I was getting a town vibe from his reaction to my tunneling. Scum react a certain way to tunneling because deep down they know the person tunneling on them is right. It's more anger and less indignation, I guess. Hard to explain, and hardly scientific.
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Vote Count 5.2
Not voting (5): jotheonah, Grujah, Galzria, Cuzz, yuma
With 5 alive it takes 3 to lynch.
Currently Cursed: No one.
Curse Deadline: Saturday Nov 10, Noon PST (3 pm forum time)
Lynch Deadline: Monday Nov 12, 1 pm PST (4 pm forum time)
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I am working on my reread of everyone, basically going one player at a time and summarizing them for the whole game, highlighting important bits and giving my thoughts on everything. It's taking a much longer time than I thought. Part of it will be up soon though.
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Ok, now to rundown a summary of my thoughts on living players.
PPE: This is a book, and I only have one done for now. Sorry. It's mostly for my benefit as a reference but I hope the rest of town reads these too.
Jotheonah:
First substantial contribution:
This has been quite a day 1. Some thoughts.
On the Grujah wagon: It kind of bothers me, because it's hard for me to get a read on someone who's already at L-2 when he makes his first post. I need to be able to compare someone's under-pressure posting to normal posting to get a good read, and the quickwagon deprived me of that. I'll get over it though. Not voting for him right now, anyway.
Town read: Capn' Frisk.
Scum reads: Insomniac and Eevee.
Eevee is being really critical of other people's reads and shooting them down in a way that gives me a bad vibe.
Expresses annoyance about the Grujah quickwagon, and then gives early town/scumreads; all happen to be on now-dead town. Gives reasons for the Eevee sumread, and on Insomniac he says later he was sheeping Frisk, but never gives much reason for thinking Frisk to be town.
Later:
I think a general note to be cautious of claiming in this game, even at L-1 is really good, and even maybe a tacit endorsement of town PRs lying in certain cases. Any more of a plan than that and we help scum too much.
Of course, being ok with town lying makes me super nervous.
I am not sure, if I get Chickenified, you should expect a great deal of contribution from me. If I'm a chicken at L-1, I just won't claim. I'll use my Chicken vote in a pro-town way. Other than that, I don't think it will be fun OR useful for me to try to continue being a productive town member while under those constraints.
This post I find very interesting. The position on claiming seems hedgy to me: "we should maybe be ok with town PRs lying, but this makes me nervous." Being outwardly wary of helping scum is an easy way for scum to buy cheap towncred. Then he maybe leaves room to go back on his "tacit endorsement" later. *This will be important below.*
The second half of this quote is interesting too. joth warns us that he will be not so helpful if he's a chicken. I'd assert that no one was all that helpful while chickened, possibly because people were too lazy to translate everything, but this statement came before anyone was chickened, and before we knew quite what an utter detriment to communication it would be. But here joth declares that he will not even try to help town while a chicken. Notably, joth then spent much of the rest of the game as a chicken. In this quote, is he preparing an excuse for lurking, while planning that his scumbuddies will curse him often throughout the game? People seemed to assume that Volt was the scum target D1 but there's no possible way to know that for sure.
Joth then spends a while as a chicken. In the meantime, people bring up the fact that he has been much quieter then usual, even before the chickening. This exchange between Robz and Galz is notable here:
The problem is that scum Joth has only been seen once in a normal game (M-III), where he was SK. In that particular game, I had no problem spotting his scummy nature D1 because he sat there trying to stir up suspicions. Here, he's just been absent.
I don't know. Joth isn't the quiet type, but I've never seen him as Mafia. OTOH, he's often quite suspicious and an easy mislynch target. For my money... I don't think I would vote him. He's too smart to intentionally play his first "Mafia" game as a lurker when f.DS is at it's peak of railing against lurkers. I feel much more comfortable with my vote on Robz, who is a solid enough player to lead the field in posts WHILE being scum, and spend his time trying to mercilessly pursue a LaL policy without actually taking the time to differentiate scummy lurking and inadvertent town lurking. This particular game has a high skill average. I just don't think you'll see scum being lurky here just for the sake of being lurky.
Galzria hasn't played scum in the past 12 normal games, so can I forgive him for being misinformed on this.
Active play is actually very, very hard for scum, even for experienced players. Even I had a hard-ish time keeping my post count up in MVIII, and even moreso in MIX, when I was scum. It's not easy. That's why Insomniac's active scum play in MXII was so impressive.
Jotheonah is often suspicious and an easy mislynch target, I agree. He tends to get on a lot of wagons, and have a lot of strong opinions. From now on, I will take this to be town Jonah, and I wish I had realized it in MXII.
But this isn't that Jo. He's much quieter here, and I'm having a hard time understanding why, being that he's active in other places. I know he started a new job, sure. I don't think he's a slamdunk by any means. But I think Galzria is underestimating how consuming the tendency to lurk as scum is.
And I still don't see why any scum would actually be afraid of leaning toward the lurky side, since so seldom do we actually punish lurking. I think he could have bet that once again, there wouldn't be any actual lynching of lurkers, or that someone would come in and say, "No scum would lurk now that we are all anti-lurking!" Because someone always does. Blowback against policy lynches is much, much more popular than policy lynches themselves.
And I am distinguishing scummy lurking from town lurking, Galzria. Archetype, for instance, is huge lurking, but I expect Archetype to lurk no matter what his alignment is. And I already said that.
Of the two of them, Robz of course was town, and Galz’s alignment is unknown. Galz defends joth’s lurking as something scum-joth would never do, despite not knowing what scum joth is like really. Robz asserts that lurking is a scumtell for everyone more or less, and not something that’s so easy to avoid as scum. They both make long well-reasoned points, and they both have far more experience than me to go off of, but knowing his alignment I tend to lean towards agreeing with Robz here. I’m of course still by no means certain that joth or anyone else is scum, but I just find Galz’s points here a bit more shaky (and of course it’s plausible that Galz could be scum actively defending a scumbuddy in this post).
Ok, later on (am I still only on D1? Ugh), we get to the lynch of town Explorer Robz. Robz’s wagon builds, gets to L-1, he claims VT and then recants and claims PR. Joth’s post below is typical of the several he made at this time:
Chicken vote: Robz
Recall the “tacit endorsement” of PRs lying in this game that joth gave earlier? Well Robz admits to having lied and claims PR and joth still desperately wants to lynch him here. Now look, I don’t mean to imply that anyone who lynched Robz post-claim was scum, since we know several of them weren’t. I myself was very confused and undecided around that time, and then I was unable to be around for the very end of the day, so I can’t honestly say what I would have done. But the fact that joth goes from being potentially ok with town PRs lying to this:
Chicken vote: Robz Chicken vote: Robz Chicken vote: Robz Chicken vote: Robz Chicken vote: Robz Chicken vote: Robz
seems suspicious. And all the while he’s chickened so he has a built-in excuse to not give a real case!
Ok, so Robz gets lynched, and we go to D2. This next quote speaks for itself, given what I’ve said above. Joth forgets his tacit endorsement.
So I really did think Robz was scum yesterday. At first because he was so set on lynching a person who couldn't defend himself, and second because he claimed like three times. I don't remember agreeing as a town that we would permit and expect that degree of lying from a town player, but I want to go on record and say that's a bad policy.
For context, this comes right out of the gate, second post of D2 before anyone has a chance to call him out for his role in the Robz lynch.
Summarizing a bit, joth then gives townreads on Galz and Frisk, and a scumread on ashersky, Perhaps tellingly, he calls for the cutpurse to kill ashersky while ashersky is a chicken:
Exactly. When is the next time we're going to have a top scumread who's also a chicken?
This here seems like something scum would be unlikely to do towards their own teammate. But I’m not sure, would an ashersky dayvig followed by a townie lynch have been a better outcome for scum? Actually it probably would, though of course you’d risk an ashersky dayvig followed by a scum lynch. So maybe not inconceivable that scum might do this.
Joth spends the rest of the day as a chicken, and hammers ashersky.
Next two days were pretty short. Joth tunnels Insomniac D3, then switches to Archetype wagon, while still declaring Insomniac to be scum. Of course both of them were town. On D4, Joth begins by continuing to tunnel Insomniac, then declares that he thinks Insomniac is town, and explains why when I ask:
Oh, it's just I've been getting a town read from his annoyance at my tunneling.
It's like, when you're scum and town is tunneling on you against all reason, it's hard to get really upset with them because on some level you know they're right, and you're worried that if you blow up they'll look righter. When you're town and someone is tunneling on you though, it's just really annoying and you can be totally righteous with your anger. It's not foolproof by any means, but it feels townish.
Unfortunately, I don't know who else to look to. I haven't followed this game well because I've been a chicken so much.
But he never unvotes! This sets up Insomniac to self-vote and Galz to hammer.
Now D5, and I’ll sheep yuma a bit, where he mentions this:
...wherein jot basically says that he hasn't really been paying that much attention to it and isn't that invested in it. I find this to be a weird comment from someone who has voted on, as he said, "ALL THE WAGONS." For someone who has lurked and has had barely any reads, jot sure has expressed his votes. Joth are you saying that you shouldn't be accountable for your votes since you really didn't have accurate reads on the people that you voted for because you have lurked through the game? That is kinda what I am interpreting this as.
I think this is something of a good point. Joth has been saying all game that he doesn’t feel like he has strong reads, isn’t totally invested, etc. etc. but has managed to end up on every wagon. This seems like a natural thing for scum. Don’t express too many opinions, don’t give strong reads you’ll have to back up later on, but still influence town with your vote.
That brings us up to the present. Joth looks far scummier upon rereading than I had thought for most of the game, which makes sense as I imagine he’d be a decent enough scum player to avoid major suspicion for a long time. During our D1 LaL phase I called him out for lurking, but he wasn’t ever my primary scum target, which if he is scum is exactly what he would be trying for. His voting positions, though, do look like potential mafia behavior.
Sorry for the novel. Other player summaries to come but can’t promise when.
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I should clarify that these are in no particular order. Joth is not necessarily my top scumread or anything (I actually had a mostly townish read on him until I did the reread).
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Are we at the point where it would be wise to start analyzing potential scum pairings? Although in the past when we have done that, from my memory MVIII and MXII it didn't turn out so well for town.
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Are we at the point where it would be wise to start analyzing potential scum pairings? Although in the past when we have done that, from my memory MVIII and MXII it didn't turn out so well for town.
I was probably gonna get to that after I analyzed everyone individually.
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This is going to suck. I honestly don't have a great memory of where things are at/who's done what this game. I know that my play has been crap though. I apologize for the derphammer, I over-reacted to Insomniac's play infuriating me. He kept calling everybody so anti-town any time they suspected him (even if they were just flushing out their feelings on EVERYBODY), yet his constant self-votes were the most anti-town thing I was seeing (assuming, at the time, he was town). When he finally voted himself to L-1 and goaded people to vote him I lost it. I couldn't believe that a town member would actually play that way. I was certain that he was scum trying (and had been successful up to that point) to force his wagon back. I was wrong, and now we're in lylo, and now I don't know what to think.
I really should reread everybody, but I don't know if I have the energy to do so. I want to focus on Joth and Shraeye, and possibly Grujah as well. I see Cuzz has put some thoughts of Joth down, so I'll start there.
There's what, 2 scum left? And Ashersky was one? So I should look for interactions with him during my reread.
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Cuzz's book from above made me want to take a better look at him; found some stuff. I am not going to quote everything, but will reference somethings I found interesting:
- Day 1 - Cuzz was really active day 1 with 57 of his 86 posts coming in this day. He ends the day with a vote on Grujah, having never participated in the Robz wagon (other than his early RVS votes), but had voted for ashersky, shraeye.
I had my vote on him throughout most of the day due to this his response to Volt's querry about ash/arch
Quote from: yuma on October 18, 2012, 05:15:22 pm This is interesting because Cuzz was willing to go back and recheck Insomniac's vote count, but he wasn't willing to take just a few seconds of time and read ashersky's five posts and Archetypes' six and notice the content difference. I am actually wondering if this was the point's of Volt's asking this question, as it seems like something volt would try to do.
Once shraeye points out the content difference between the two, Cuzz quickly adjusts his statement. That is enough for me to vote: Cuzz
- Day 2 - He is less active with 16 of his 86 posts coming in this day. He ends the day with a vote on Eevee and had previously voted for ashersky, and archetype.
Post by: Cuzz on October 29, 2012, 06:42:36 pm
Quote from: Insomniac on October 29, 2012, 06:31:34 pm
Anybody else up for an Eevee lynch?
I'd prefer ashersky based on behavior today, but Eevee was my biggest scumread D1 and did hammer our cop, so yes I can support this.
Vote: Eevee
I didn't find this that scummy at the time, but it was pointed out by joth I think, which clued me into it this time.
He also noted this, which he references in a later day... more to come here.
Post by: Cuzz on October 28, 2012, 11:03:58 pm
Quote from: ashersky on October 25, 2012, 07:18:16 am
I will note this happens to me every game it seems. Shraeye and I are alike in this, in that everyone reads us as scummy and we're always town. Like now.
Rereading and found this gem from ashersky. For the second time today I'll mention that usually I hate going off of scumslips, yet make an exception here. And unlike the Arch one in which I misinterpreted the context, this one seems more black and white. Ashersky is declaring here that he knows shraeye is town in this game. He later in the above post even goes on to put a scumread on shraeye, but that's not even the real issue. Ashersky expressed knowledge of another player's alignment, scum scum scum.
That plus the convenient timing of his bechickening, when yesterday scum certainly noticed how hesitant we were to lynch chickens. And he was on the Robz wagon of course. Deadline is coming up sooner than I realized, so I'll vote: ashersky.
- Day 3 - Had some V/LA time, and the day was cut short, but had only 6 posts this day. He voted Insomniac and Archetype.
- Day 4 - Only 2 of his 86 posts here but again it was an abbreviated day. He doesn't vote for anyone and his only significant post is where he references his own post mentioned above.
Post by: Cuzz on November 04, 2012, 11:53:09 am
Some catching up to do, but wanted to pop in to say I'm not in favor of a shraeye lynch.
I thought ashersky made a slip at one point in which he admitted knowing shraeye was town, as I outlined here:
I wasn't so sure about this case at the time since it was a small thing, (I had asked for some feedback from others which no one ever gave) but I think now that I might have been right given that ashersky flipped scum, i.e. that this really was a scumslip, and thus shraeye actually is town.
Here he subtly gives himself some credit for voting ashersky (who yes, was scum, but wasn't him when he was lynched) and establishes a town read on shraeye via ashersky's supposed scumslip... This is interesting because who ends up dying at night? Shraeye... Shraeye death gives Cuzz some town cred. The question is, was Shraeye's death intended to give it?
Summary: Grujah read here!: Cuzz was very active early (I haven't looked at other players activity over the course of the days, but I imagine it is somewhat similar, but Cuzz's really stood out to me because it drops rather dramatically as the game progresses) and has had his fair share of scummy moments but has stayed low in regard to suspicion. I think jot and I are really the only ones who have voted for him. He was on the ashersky wagon early but left it. And potentially may have tried to establish some credibility by giving a town read on shraeye followed by a night kill on him.
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I really should reread everybody, but I don't know if I have the energy to do so. I want to focus on Joth and Shraeye, and possibly Grujah as well. I see Cuzz has put some thoughts of Joth down, so I'll start there.
There's what, 2 scum left? And Ashersky was one? So I should look for interactions with him during my reread.
shraeye is dead. Who did you intend to put there?
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I really should reread everybody, but I don't know if I have the energy to do so. I want to focus on Joth and Shraeye, and possibly Grujah as well. I see Cuzz has put some thoughts of Joth down, so I'll start there.
There's what, 2 scum left? And Ashersky was one? So I should look for interactions with him during my reread.
shraeye is dead. Who did you intend to put there?
Ha! You're right. I intended Shraeye, honestly. I found him scummy yesterday, and wanted to pursue that further today. I forgot he was killed last night.
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So that "tacit endorsment" thing, I don't think it's as inconsistent as Cuzz suggests. Mainly, there's a big difference between town fakeclaiming a power role right before lynch for theory reasons, which is the plan we were talking about when I agreed that might be permissible, and town flailing his way through 3 different claims in the moments before his lynch. The latter just seemed so, so much like scum play.
Why did I come in and say that right at the beginning of the day? Because I had so desperately wanted to say it at the end of the day, but I was a chicken. And also because I felt like I owed it to the town to explain my vote in retrospect because I couldn't do it at the time.
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Quick post before heading off to rotations since I forgot to post this last night.
I will be intermittently available today and tomorrow due to funeral/memorial events and am not 100% sure of the time schedule. Rest assured that I will post when I am around, but don't be terribly surprised if I am around even less than usual.
Deadline is Monday afternoon? Unfortunately I won't be around then either.
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Quick post before heading off to rotations since I forgot to post this last night.
I will be intermittently available today and tomorrow due to funeral/memorial events and am not 100% sure of the time schedule. Rest assured that I will post when I am around, but don't be terribly surprised if I am around even less than usual.
Deadline is Monday afternoon? Unfortunately I won't be around then either.
Very sorry for your loss, yuma, and I think no one will blame you if mafia is not your top priority at this time. This game is fun and can get intense at times, but it is just a game. All the best to your family.
What do we think about maybe a soft (or even hard) deadline for Sunday night then? We're at LyLo and need all 3 town to agree to lynch correctly and survive, and if yuma is town we'll have no chance if we wait till deadline when he's not around. It'd be great if there was a little time when everyone could be around and come to a consensus together.
Grujah and Galz have been really quiet today (though I know Galz was V/LA) and I really believe that this stage of the game is when a. It's hardest for scum to fake pro-town behavior and b. they benefit most from keeping quiet. They are still my bigger scumreads and I'm workin on rereading them but man it is work and I'm supposed to be grading exams all weekend. I'll do my best.
Let's keep in mind too that someone will be a chicken by tomorrow and that could make things very difficult as we approach the deadline, so everyone should at least get some thoughts down before then.
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Given this is MyLo and the weekend and yuma's extenuating circumstances, I request a deadline extension from Jorbles
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I think Grujah and Galz are good lynches, FWIW. But that's just a gut reaction. I won't have legit reads until I have time to do a reread this week. Then hopefully I'll bust this thing wide open.
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Given this is MyLo and the weekend and yuma's extenuating circumstances, I request a deadline extension from Jorbles
This is a good idea too. Why MyLo and not LyLo though?
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I do get those terms mixed up. I guess it is LyLo, sicne No Lynch is not an option for town.
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Given this is Lylo (ftfy) and the weekend and yuma's extenuating circumstances, I request a deadline extension from Jorbles
If all players would please PM their vote on this. I will extend the deadline if it is unanimous. Probably by two days.
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Given this is Lylo (ftfy) and the weekend and yuma's extenuating circumstances, I request a deadline extension from Jorbles
If all players would please PM their vote on this. I will extend the deadline if it is unanimous. Probably by two days.
Here for a bit before leaving. anyone want to chat it up? Just because we will have an extension doesn't mean we can't talk today...
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Given this is Lylo (ftfy) and the weekend and yuma's extenuating circumstances, I request a deadline extension from Jorbles
If all players would please PM their vote on this. I will extend the deadline if it is unanimous. Probably by two days.
Here for a bit before leaving. anyone want to chat it up? Just because we will have an extension doesn't mean we can't talk today...
anyone... I know at least 4 out of the 5 players still alive in the game are online right now...
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Given this is Lylo (ftfy) and the weekend and yuma's extenuating circumstances, I request a deadline extension from Jorbles
If all players would please PM their vote on this. I will extend the deadline if it is unanimous. Probably by two days.
Here for a bit before leaving. anyone want to chat it up? Just because we will have an extension doesn't mean we can't talk today...
anyone... I know at least 4 out of the 5 players still alive in the game are online right now...
Funny right after I post this... cuzz, jot and galz are now all off line. I think I scared them away
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Others have pointed out that Galz has been on every townie lynch but was not on the one scum lynch that we have had. I decided to focus my skim read on him there. I am not going to quote sorry (I am kinda in a rush trying to get this down before leaving for the day).
In skimming through I noticed that Galz had abundant opportunities day 2 to put a vote down on ashersky. He almost hammered him mid-day 2. But didn't.
He also had multiple opportunities to join the final ashersky wagon, but didn't.
It seems that some people are getting a scum read based off this, and understandably so. But I am actually getting a town read based off my previous playing experience with Galz in Blitz1 when we were both mafia together.
In Blitz1 Galz basically said that if I received any pressure at all, he would not hesitate to bus me and press for my lynch, and he did heavily day 3 in, both before my attempt to quick hammer and after. But because he didn't press or hammer ashersky in this game I have a harder time seeing Galz as scum. I think scum-Galz would have bussed ashersky hard after ash received heavy pressure.
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Others have pointed out that Galz has been on every townie lynch but was not on the one scum lynch that we have had. I decided to focus my skim read on him there. I am not going to quote sorry (I am kinda in a rush trying to get this down before leaving for the day).
In skimming through I noticed that Galz had abundant opportunities day 2 to put a vote down on ashersky. He almost hammered him mid-day 2. But didn't.
He also had multiple opportunities to join the final ashersky wagon, but didn't.
It seems that some people are getting a scum read based off this, and understandably so. But I am actually getting a town read based off my previous playing experience with Galz in Blitz1 when we were both mafia together.
In Blitz1 Galz basically said that if I received any pressure at all, he would not hesitate to bus me and press for my lynch, and he did heavily day 3 in, both before my attempt to quick hammer and after. But because he didn't press or hammer ashersky in this game I have a harder time seeing Galz as scum. I think scum-Galz would have bussed ashersky hard after ash received heavy pressure.
Quick response to this: Galz likes to use the "scum Galz doesn't play like this so I can't be scum" argument in this game, which I really don't like when it comes from the person in question. I haven't played too much with Galz but based on his reputation I think he's good enouh player to not play the same every time he's scum.
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Others have pointed out that Galz has been on every townie lynch but was not on the one scum lynch that we have had. I decided to focus my skim read on him there. I am not going to quote sorry (I am kinda in a rush trying to get this down before leaving for the day).
In skimming through I noticed that Galz had abundant opportunities day 2 to put a vote down on ashersky. He almost hammered him mid-day 2. But didn't.
He also had multiple opportunities to join the final ashersky wagon, but didn't.
It seems that some people are getting a scum read based off this, and understandably so. But I am actually getting a town read based off my previous playing experience with Galz in Blitz1 when we were both mafia together.
In Blitz1 Galz basically said that if I received any pressure at all, he would not hesitate to bus me and press for my lynch, and he did heavily day 3 in, both before my attempt to quick hammer and after. But because he didn't press or hammer ashersky in this game I have a harder time seeing Galz as scum. I think scum-Galz would have bussed ashersky hard after ash received heavy pressure.
Quick response to this: Galz likes to use the "scum Galz doesn't play like this so I can't be scum" argument in this game, which I really don't like when it comes from the person in question. I haven't played too much with Galz but based on his reputation I think he's good enouh player to not play the same every time he's scum.
I've played in M-II, M-III, M-IV, M-V, M-VI, M-VII, M-VIII, M-IX, M-XI, M-III*, M-XIV* and M-XV*.
I've used that argument in EVERY game I've played since my first where nobody knew me and I was playing my first ever game. The only game I've been mafia in? M-II. I was lynched in M-III and M-VII. NK'd in M-IV, M-IX and M-XI. Lived to the end in M-VI, M-V and M-VIII.
People like to claim I'm Mafia. Been that way for a long, long time. They use a baseless argument that "scum Galz wouldn't play like he did in the past, thus his playing like *every other game in recent memory where he was town*, MUST mean he's scum here!" They've been wrong every time.
The only other game I've been scum in was ZM-1, where Yuma was my partner. If Yuma is town here, he knows the difference between my mafia play and my town play, and he knows this isn't me as scum.
For my part, I need to compile the cases, but my biggest scum read is Joth. Second to that is Cuzz. Yuma is my strongest town read, with Grujah second towniest. Soo... Joth -> Cuzz -> Grujah -> Yuma.
I still get hung up on the number of times Joth has been Chickened... And yet... Coming into this game he had not yet ever rolled Mafia. I could see using the mechanic to hide behind newness. Certainly his rate of chickening is suspiciously high to me one way or another. I just need to figure out if it's more likely to be a scum misdirect, or a scum frame. Not sure.
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So given that we have 2 scum left I started re-reading with an eye toward pairs, and I think I found one.
Re-read the leadup to the Robz-lynch, and tell me it doesn't look like scumGalz forced to come to scumGruj's rescue (He wrote some LONG posts defending Grujah)
Robz FOSes Galz for not realizing he was (in retrospect obviously) breadcrumbing his power role. I think Galz did catch it, and also his many hints that he had invstigated ashersky. Galz and Gru had figured out Robz was the cop, that's why they pushed his lynch so hard - they thought it was worth it to be obvious if they could knock out the cop.
Galz's defense of Grujah's 1v1ing of Robz does not read townish to me. I would expect town to call Gru out on bad play, not come up with a convoluted argument for why his bad play makes him town.
If you don't believe me, go back and read that exchange. Def. my #1 scumteam read as of now.
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Others have pointed out that Galz has been on every townie lynch but was not on the one scum lynch that we have had. I decided to focus my skim read on him there. I am not going to quote sorry (I am kinda in a rush trying to get this down before leaving for the day).
In skimming through I noticed that Galz had abundant opportunities day 2 to put a vote down on ashersky. He almost hammered him mid-day 2. But didn't.
He also had multiple opportunities to join the final ashersky wagon, but didn't.
It seems that some people are getting a scum read based off this, and understandably so. But I am actually getting a town read based off my previous playing experience with Galz in Blitz1 when we were both mafia together.
In Blitz1 Galz basically said that if I received any pressure at all, he would not hesitate to bus me and press for my lynch, and he did heavily day 3 in, both before my attempt to quick hammer and after. But because he didn't press or hammer ashersky in this game I have a harder time seeing Galz as scum. I think scum-Galz would have bussed ashersky hard after ash received heavy pressure.
Quick response to this: Galz likes to use the "scum Galz doesn't play like this so I can't be scum" argument in this game, which I really don't like when it comes from the person in question. I haven't played too much with Galz but based on his reputation I think he's good enouh player to not play the same every time he's scum.
I've played in M-II, M-III, M-IV, M-V, M-VI, M-VII, M-VIII, M-IX, M-XI, M-III*, M-XIV* and M-XV*.
I've used that argument in EVERY game I've played since my first where nobody knew me and I was playing my first ever game. The only game I've been mafia in? M-II. I was lynched in M-III and M-VII. NK'd in M-IV, M-IX and M-XI. Lived to the end in M-VI, M-V and M-VIII.
People like to claim I'm Mafia. Been that way for a long, long time. They use a baseless argument that "scum Galz wouldn't play like he did in the past, thus his playing like *every other game in recent memory where he was town*, MUST mean he's scum here!" They've been wrong every time.
The only other game I've been scum in was ZM-1, where Yuma was my partner. If Yuma is town here, he knows the difference between my mafia play and my town play, and he knows this isn't me as scum.
For my part, I need to compile the cases, but my biggest scum read is Joth. Second to that is Cuzz. Yuma is my strongest town read, with Grujah second towniest. Soo... Joth -> Cuzz -> Grujah -> Yuma.
I still get hung up on the number of times Joth has been Chickened... And yet... Coming into this game he had not yet ever rolled Mafia. I could see using the mechanic to hide behind newness. Certainly his rate of chickening is suspiciously high to me one way or another. I just need to figure out if it's more likely to be a scum misdirect, or a scum frame. Not sure.
The fact that you've only been scum in one previous game is all the more reason that the "scum Galz doesn't play like this" defense is worthless. There's only a single sample of what scum Galz even is then!
I'm not gonna continue arguing about this though because I never find arguing with someone I think is possible scum about whether or not they are scum to be productive. I'll discuss it with others.
And PPE: this is a decent point joth.
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Then vote me and end the game.
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Also, Eevee and Insom have both found Galz scummy all game and are dead now.
Galz, are you at L1?
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No, you are not.
Vote: Galzria
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Cool. Scum can come hammer now.
Except they can't, because you're scum.
Vote: Joth
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FWIW, my lack of engagement with this game is unfortunate, but it's also a towntell. When I was in a bunch of games, this is the one I ignored. It's now known that I was town in all of them. If this had been my one game as scum, would I have payed so little attention to it?
Lurked it, maybe, if I thought that was the best strategy. But actually just didn't read it carefully or post at all? Unlikely.
I know self-meta is garbage, but I thought that might be worth putting out there.
Ok, fine, I'll unvote. I'm all for taking the time to talk, and I guess quickhammers are a thing.
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I'm not worried about one on me, however.
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Grujah, what would you say if we said we're holding you to your bargain with Robz, and we want to lynch you today?
I consider that Robz broke that deal off and that I am not obliged to go by it.
If town's consensus says that I am wrong and that I still need to keep my part, as town has less subjective view on the issue, I will take that judgement and vote myself as promised.
Grujah, I would like to now hold you to this deal. Will you self-vote?
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I'll offer #1605 and #1606 as further evidence that Joth is scum:
"Ok, fine, I'll unvote. I'm all for taking the the time to talk."
If Joth had actually believed I was scum when he voted for me, then he would also believe I couldn't be quick-hammered because "quickhammering" could only happen if I was town.
Why unvote me then? Either he thinks I'm scum (as he made clear) or he knows I'm town. The only reason to unvote is to try and get townie points for being concerned about a quickhammer.
Following up to his very next post:
"I'm not worried about one on me however"
This can only be because of two reasons:
1) He thinks I'm scum, thus there aren't two scum left to quickhammer him. This is disproved by the previous post where he unvotes me - again, if he believed this to be true, there would've been no reason to unvote me.
2) He himself is scum, thus knows there is no chance that he'll be quickhammered because his lynch still requires two more townies (or bussing). The reason for unvoting me here is pointed out above - to build town cred for caring about a "possible quickhammer" on me - something he can't believe is possible because that would mean we're both town (according to him), which means he WOULD be worried about a quick hammer on himself - which he's not.
Joth is scum.
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That's pretty weak stuff, Galz.
It ignores the possibility that I'm 90% sure you're scum, but as the guy who hasn't been reading closely enough, I'm not so egotistical as to bet the game on it before everyone has said their peace.
It's been so long since I've been alive at LyLo that I forgot about the threat of quickhammer - hence the question about L-1.
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Cuzz and yuma, consider a Gru-Galz team. Consider your way through a reread. I don't think I'm wrong.
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That's pretty weak stuff, Galz.
It ignores the possibility that I'm 90% sure you're scum, but as the guy who hasn't been reading closely enough, I'm not so egotistical as to bet the game on it before everyone has said their peace.
It's been so long since I've been alive at LyLo that I forgot about the threat of quickhammer - hence the question about L-1.
That would be true of #1605 on it's own Joth. #1606 disproves that.
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No, it really doesn't. I'm sure enough you're scum to not be worried about being quickhammered. I'm not sure enough you're scum to risk ending the game prematurely with incomplete knowledge.
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No, it really doesn't. I'm sure enough you're scum to not be worried about being quickhammered. I'm not sure enough you're scum to risk ending the game prematurely with incomplete knowledge.
Those sentences aren't compatible, and you know it.
IF you were "sure enough that I'm scum to not be worried about being quickhammered"
THEN you would be "sure enough that I'm scum to not be worried about ME being quickhammered"
Yet you claim "concern" over the second statement, but specifically NO concern over the first.
The only reason you would have no concern for the first, while ALSO unvoting me, is because you're scum trying to buy free town cred. If you were town, then statement #1 above would make statement #2 true. But you're not town, which is why it seemed to make sense to claim one, but not the other - hence your unvote.
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I'm not going to engage with scum one on one.
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Vote Count 5.3
jotheonah (1): Galzria
Not voting (4): jotheonah, Grujah, Cuzz, yuma
With 5 alive it takes 3 to lynch.
Currently Cursed: No one.
Curse Deadline: Tuesday Nov 13, Noon PST (3 pm forum time)
Lynch Deadline: Monday Nov 16, Noon pm PST (3 pm forum time)
Mod updates: You'll notice the last Curse deadline passed. That is correct, no one is currently Cursed. Additionally, though not everyone voted, I have not heard any opposition to the extension of the lynch deadline. The new lynch deadline is above.
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I do not believe Galz to be scum. I have read through the area you brought up and I just don't see scum in it. I don't see that Galz as scum would play that way. This isn't due to his arguments about meta. This is due to my own personal experience playing with him and my own viewpoint. Unless something drastic happens today. I will not be voting for Galz.
After deciding this I have 3 potential scum pairs left:
Cuzz/Grujah
Cuzz/jot
grujah/jot
of these players I have found Cuzz and jot to be the most scummy, but that is with the note that I haven't gone back and done a full reread on grujah... doing so should help. But I also noticed that in jot's case on Galz he said that Galz-Grujah were the scum team, but barely even mentioned Grujah... Jot do you feel as strongly about Grujah as you do about Galz?
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I do feel just as strongly about Grujah.
But the thing is, Galz was also fingered by Eevee and Inomniac before they died, so that makes me feel a little more justified in my reads.
I urge you to reconsider on Galzria. He is playing very scummily. That BS argument he JUST made about my voting and unvoting him is a good example.
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yuma, if you find joth and I to be most scummy, are you saying that you think the joth/me scumteam is most likely?
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yuma, if you find joth and I to be most scummy, are you saying that you think the joth/me scumteam is most likely?
I am saying that right now I find you and jot to be the most scummy, but with the cavat that I haven't gone back and reread Grujah and can't make that determination until I do so. That is on today's todo list.
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Galzria-yuma is a possibility.
Honeslty I find it highly scummy that yuma is putting personal experience with Galzria over extremely damning wagon behavior AND fishy play throughout the game. Completely dismissing Galz at this point is not pro-town.
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yuma, if you find joth and I to be most scummy, are you saying that you think the joth/me scumteam is most likely?
I am saying that right now I find you and jot to be the most scummy, but with the cavat that I haven't gone back and reread Grujah and can't make that determination until I do so. That is on today's todo list.
What do you think of Galz/joth's votes on each other last night? Joth unvoted quickly, but Galz did not. Was that not reckless to leave a quickhammer possibility open, or, since that hasn't happened, do you think it means either joth or Galz has to be scum?
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Galzria-yuma is a possibility.
Honeslty I find it highly scummy that yuma is putting personal experience with Galzria over extremely damning wagon behavior AND fishy play throughout the game. Completely dismissing Galz at this point is not pro-town.
man... forget reading grujah vote: jotheonah
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Vote: jotheonah
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If you're not members of the scum team, you should unvote immediately before Galz gets here.
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Seriously, I've been more or less ignoring this game all game and I feel bad about it. Now I'm trying hard to play, I'm giving you guys my reads.
yuma, I honestly don't understand how/why you're clearing Galz. He looks by far the scummiest to me. I'm also not sure why my pointing this out offends you so much that you have to pre_OMGUS me for suspecting you.
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This would be a seriously stupid way for town to lose this game.
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Seriously, I've been more or less ignoring this game all game and I feel bad about it. Now I'm trying hard to play, I'm giving you guys my reads.
yuma, I honestly don't understand how/why you're clearing Galz. He looks by far the scummiest to me. I'm also not sure why my pointing this out offends you so much that you have to pre_OMGUS me for suspecting you.
Galz vote was still on you, joth. That's 3 to lynch.
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Oh, so you two are the scum team and just quick-hammered me then? Fuck. FoS Galzria for leaving his vote on me.
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I can't help feel like I was left alive at LyLo for being a bad player and I've now just proved scum entirely right.
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I did not think Galz was scum from the day ashersky died onward. I should not have "dared scum Galz" to hammer I was just frustrated with everyone in this game. My actual scum team I had for today was grujah-Jo but the Jo part would have been on hold. I wanted to vote grujah so bad.
I was when I died so frustrated with this game that I outted of all m other games and considered taking a long break from mafia.
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I did not think Galz was scum from the day ashersky died onward. I should not have "dared scum Galz" to hammer I was just frustrated with everyone in this game. My actual scum team I had for today was grujah-Jo but the Jo part would have been on hold. I wanted to vote grujah so bad.
I was when I died so frustrated with this game that I outted of all m other games and considered taking a long break from mafia.
Blaah.
Just woke up. As you've known from the spec QT (and my message via Jorbles), Grujah has hands down been my #1 scum read since day #1.
I really did think Joth was #2 though, especially after that ridiculous #1605/#1606 combination yesterday. The two statements don't LOGICALLY make sense juxtaposed. I don't understand "I'm not sure enough that you're scum to NOT be worried about a quickhammer" AND "I'm sure enough you're scum to not be worried of a quickhammer falling on me". I really, really don't.
And Insomniac: I'm sorry to have put you through that. I too was frustrated, and for the briefest moment had a "what the **** if he IS mafia? I'm not dealing with this anymore moment!"... Not my best as I really, honestly knew inside you were town.
As it turned out, my long-game gambit never would've mattererd. Even if Joth were scum, I was wrong about Grujah, and there would've been no talking me out of voting him in 3-player lylo.
Truly a rough game.
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Since this is over I can talk too?
Idk, I didn't play too well probably and my VLA came at unfortunate time.. but I was right about Grujah and Ins at least? And where scum would have been found, at the sidelines.
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My message to Jorbles on November 1st:
Just so the record is set somewhere, and to give you (and possible spectators something to chew on):
I've believed Insomniac is town, and Grujah scum since the end of D1. After the Robz fiasco I decided to try for a very long-shot town gamble, buddying up hardcore to my biggest scum read, in the hopes of getting left alive by scum to lylo, and then flipping the table.
My hostility D2, I felt very bad about, but I absolutely had to get votes off me, and I knew that I could play in a style so unlike any meta that I have, that it would move people off me. It was an appeal to emotion through anger, belligerence, and frustration, with open hostility and snipes towards everyone.
Well, it worked. But to those watching who think I'm playing a terrible game, or even obvscum game - it's not all as clear as it seems. I don't know that it'll work out in the end, but I'm hopeful. It's not something that's yet been done on f.DS from a townie because of it's huge likelihood of backfiring.
So to those who might think otherwise, my play is NOT as sloppy here as it seems. It's been very calculated in fact. For better, or for worse.
Seems I was playing as poorly as it looked after all. Sigh...
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Well played by scum, certainly. But also badly played by town. Certainly I was a liability, but Insom, Galz, Robz, and Grujah all did some scummy-looking things throughout the game. It was really a mess.
Congrats Cuzz and yuma!
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Galz, I guess there's a difference between my vote losing the town the game and your vote losing the town the game. I was more worried about the former than the latter.
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hammered and then just watched this with the wife... thought it was appropriate... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZv0neSFnhk
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Well played by scum, certainly. But also badly played by town. Certainly I was a liability, but Insom, Galz, Robz, and Grujah all did some scummy-looking things throughout the game. It was really a mess.
Congrats Cuzz and yuma!
I know I did. It was completely intentional after the D1 events. Unfortunately it wouldn't have worked out regardless, as I really, really, really thought Grujah was scum.
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Everyone in the qt thought I was essentially an IC and couldn't believe people were still voting for me. They did accurately suspect cuzz for trying to push a case on me
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Well done scum. You must have been marveling at our various self-destructions all the way through.
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When I saw my scummates, I thought for sure we were doomed... we are all serial lurkers... and after the purge all lurkers earlier I thought for sure we were doomed.
And I fought hard with myself to avoid lurking. I honestly tried to post as much as possible and be as active as possible... but man! only having 4 hours a day to be online makes being around for lynches and having conversation difficult. It was really stressing me out.
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Well done scum. You must have been marveling at our various self-destructions all the way through.
Yeah, I was a bit giddy in the QT, especially after the Robz and Insomniac lynches. Hope it doesn't read as too dickish...
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When I saw my scummates, I thought for sure we were doomed... we are all serial lurkers... and after the purge all lurkers earlier I thought for sure we were doomed.
And I fought hard with myself to avoid lurking. I honestly tried to post as much as possible and be as active as possible... but man! only having 4 hours a day to be online makes being around for lynches and having conversation difficult. It was really stressing me out.
I honestly was giving you a pass because you were active when you could be
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Galz, I guess there's a difference between my vote losing the town the game and your vote losing the town the game. I was more worried about the former than the latter.
It's just...
If you really thought that I was scum... to the point where you weren't concerned about being hammered, then WHY would you unvote me? If not concerned that you'll be hammered, that means you believe that you're scum or I am. If you thought we could both be town, you would be worried about the QH.
because of that, I didn't understand how you could be NOT voting me - since to say there was a chance of my being town, meant that you had to be scum as per the above. Your statement in #1606 basically said to me:
"I'm sure one of us is scum"
While #1605 said:
"There is a chance (however small) he's town"
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When I saw my scummates, I thought for sure we were doomed... we are all serial lurkers... and after the purge all lurkers earlier I thought for sure we were doomed.
And I fought hard with myself to avoid lurking. I honestly tried to post as much as possible and be as active as possible... but man! only having 4 hours a day to be online makes being around for lynches and having conversation difficult. It was really stressing me out.
Yeah I worked pretty hard at this myself. I was sure someone was gonna point out that town Cuzz always gets to L-1 on D2 for lurking, so I must be scum here.
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The one thing that dissapointed me that no one caught onto at lylo because Galz hammered me to quick is that scum wouldn't have hammered me after a dare and Yuma didn't hammer me. That said even up until game end I was convinced it was grujah jo
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My highlights for the game were nailing PRs with our night kills and then using the chickening relatively effectively.
Lowlight was when neither Cuzz or I ended up on the ashersky lynch despite voting for him earlier. That was sooo frustrating for me. Having my vote on him all day, taking it off and then seeing that wagon go flying after read later that day.
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which chickenings were scum-chickenings?
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The one thing that dissapointed me that no one caught onto at lylo because Galz hammered me to quick is that scum wouldn't have hammered me after a dare and Yuma didn't hammer me. That said even up until game end I was convinced it was grujah jo
Oh would have hammered, but choose right before that moment to start a Once Upon A Time episode with my wife. When the episode was over, night had already started.
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which chickenings were scum-chickenings?
Volt the first time, then you, then shraeye. I think those were all of them. And I purposly didn't curse today.
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I'm just glad I finally saw yuma online before I had to continue writing the novels about everyone I had promised. Ain't nobody got time for that.
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Why did you curse me?
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During the Robz lynch I sent Jorbles message requesting replacement at the end of the day phase. But then by the time the lynch happened the game had gotten so crazy that I messaged him again to cancel.
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Being a chicken was just so frustrating, because I really think out loud in these games, especially when I'm town. So for me, it's like I was deprived of thinking as well as talking. I think that's how I managed to miss all of Robz's hints about his role.
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Oh yea. NO LYNCHING PR CLAIMS DAY 1. ITS REALLY BAD NO MATTER WHAT IF SCUM IS FAKECLAIMING THEY ARE BAD AND WILL DIE FOR IT. >:( >:( >:( >:(
In all fairness I didn't know Robz was the cop but had picked up a long while before he was a PR and thusly I offered myself in place of him.
And jo I don't think your a bad player I think you were left alive because you had been chickened for so long that you were frustrated and hadn't much followed the game.
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Oh yea. NO LYNCHING PR CLAIMS DAY 1. ITS REALLY BAD NO MATTER WHAT IF SCUM IS FAKECLAIMING THEY ARE BAD AND WILL DIE FOR IT. >:( >:( >:( >:(
In all fairness I didn't know Robz was the cop but had picked up a long while before he was a PR and thusly I offered myself in place of him.
And jo I don't think your a bad player I think you were left alive because you had been chickened for so long that you were frustrated and hadn't much followed the game.
I picked up that he was the cop from his "extra information" remark. He was marked for dead N1 well before the claim was forced out of him.
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Oh yea. NO LYNCHING PR CLAIMS DAY 1. ITS REALLY BAD NO MATTER WHAT IF SCUM IS FAKECLAIMING THEY ARE BAD AND WILL DIE FOR IT. >:( >:( >:( >:(
In all fairness I didn't know Robz was the cop but had picked up a long while before he was a PR and thusly I offered myself in place of him.
And jo I don't think your a bad player I think you were left alive because you had been chickened for so long that you were frustrated and hadn't much followed the game.
I picked up that he was the cop from his "extra information" remark. He was marked for dead N1 well before the claim was forced out of him.
Yeah, I think Cuzz and I were both a little disappointed, along with ashersky can't forget about him, he was lynched, since he would have been our night kill for sure.
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Why did you curse me?
I think it was intended to make people think that perhaps you had cursed yourself as scum... but that kinda backfired until much later in the game.
In reality though, if we hadn't night killed the cutpurse, we just weren't going to curse at all day 3. It was becoming too risky.
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Oh yea. NO LYNCHING PR CLAIMS DAY 1. ITS REALLY BAD NO MATTER WHAT IF SCUM IS FAKECLAIMING THEY ARE BAD AND WILL DIE FOR IT. >:( >:( >:( >:(
In all fairness I didn't know Robz was the cop but had picked up a long while before he was a PR and thusly I offered myself in place of him.
And jo I don't think your a bad player I think you were left alive because you had been chickened for so long that you were frustrated and hadn't much followed the game.
I picked up that he was the cop from his "extra information" remark. He was marked for dead N1 well before the claim was forced out of him.
Yeah, I think Cuzz and I were both a little disappointed, along with ashersky can't forget about him, he was lynched, since he would have been our night kill for sure.
I was happy with myself for staying off of Robz with the chance to hammer. I was hoping someone was gonna shower me with towncred for that but oh well.
Ashersky deserves points for rooting out the remainder of the PRs before he got lynched. That was big.
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;D
Frisk "I didn't troll!
Galz - actively acting scummy Trying to buddy up to town."
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Anyone got the spec link?
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Ending the game while I sleep. Boo.
Anyhow yes.
jotheonah, has been lynched. He was a Fishing Villager.
Sea Hags win!
Cuzz was the lookout, and yuma the remaining Sea Hag. Links to follow.
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Mod notes:
http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/kwpXeN4zga7Bw
Speccy thread:
http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/e7UrN9wzaSJ
Scum thread:
http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/DfX24j52DFD
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I think this game was pretty skewed by the d1 PR lynch, but I was quite happy with how this played out. One thing worth noting is how lucky scum got with quickly working out the setup. Cuzz stopped using his power because they knew who everyone was.
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Also thank you guys for following the rules properly most of the time at least. I am glad that A) I didn't have to enforce them in a way that would have decided the game and B) I didn't have to enforce them very often.
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Nice game, thanks for modding Jorbles!
The reason I hid the night we "lost the wifom battle" (not mad yuma!) was that I figured scum would just curse me before the lynch deadline anyways the following day so that was our only chance (can't hide when cursed).
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Man, I can finally post again.
I was fairly certain I'd be D2 lynch, so I'm glad I was able to distance from my teammates. Good on Yuma especially for never drawing suspicion. Good win us!
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Nice game, thanks for modding Jorbles!
The reason I hid the night we "lost the wifom battle" (not mad yuma!) was that I figured scum would just curse me before the lynch deadline anyways the following day so that was our only chance (can't hide when cursed).
yeah, between you and frisk that night was quite the toss up. I don't think we ever seriously considered night killing someone else... having 2 confirmed townies just wasn't ever something we wanted to have.
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Nice game, thanks for modding Jorbles!
The reason I hid the night we "lost the wifom battle" (not mad yuma!) was that I figured scum would just curse me before the lynch deadline anyways the following day so that was our only chance (can't hide when cursed).
yeah, between you and frisk that night was quite the toss up. I don't think we ever seriously considered night killing someone else... having 2 confirmed townies just wasn't ever something we wanted to have.
Oh yeah, my fake claim at least got you two to come out with info, which helped immensely.
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Good Game Scum! Suspected Cuzz, but definitally not yuma!
The game was definitally balanced, but the lost of all our PRs early really sank the town.
I also had a weird feeling I was the secret curser. Glad my lynch solved one problem.
MVP, in my opinion, should go to yuma. It was one of the best scum play I've ever seen! :P
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Good Game Scum! Suspected Cuzz, but definitally not yuma!
The game was definitally balanced, but the lost of all our PRs early really sank the town.
I also had a weird feeling I was the secret curser. Glad my lynch solved one problem.
MVP, in my opinion, should go to yuma. It was one of the best scum play I've ever seen! :P
and this time I didn't screw up the scum quickhammer for the win! I was super nervous about it. My wife said I was shaking as I wrote my vote post.
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Agree yuma is the MVP. Cuzz and Yuma made very good teammates, I'd say.
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Just finished reading the spec QT. I am forever terrified of ehunt.
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Good Game Scum! Suspected Cuzz, but definitally not yuma!
The game was definitally balanced, but the lost of all our PRs early really sank the town.
I also had a weird feeling I was the secret curser. Glad my lynch solved one problem.
MVP, in my opinion, should go to yuma. It was one of the best scum play I've ever seen! :P
and this time I didn't screw up the scum quickhammer for the win! I was super nervous about it. My wife said I was shaking as I wrote my vote post.
Haha I was a bit wary at the end too. Ever since Galz voted I was checking if you were signed in every half hour or so. When I saw you on this morning and started posting I was really just trying to say "you here? I'm here. Let's do this"
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Good Game Scum! Suspected Cuzz, but definitally not yuma!
The game was definitally balanced, but the lost of all our PRs early really sank the town.
I also had a weird feeling I was the secret curser. Glad my lynch solved one problem.
MVP, in my opinion, should go to yuma. It was one of the best scum play I've ever seen! :P
and this time I didn't screw up the scum quickhammer for the win! I was super nervous about it. My wife said I was shaking as I wrote my vote post.
Haha I was a bit wary at the end too. Ever since Galz voted I was checking if you were signed in every half hour or so. When I saw you on this morning and started posting I was really just trying to say "you here? I'm here. Let's do this"
exactly... "Please see this, please vote, please see this, please vote" over and over and over again...
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Nice game, thanks for modding Jorbles!
The reason I hid the night we "lost the wifom battle" (not mad yuma!) was that I figured scum would just curse me before the lynch deadline anyways the following day so that was our only chance (can't hide when cursed).
I am not sure if Cuzz knew this, but I certainly didn't know anything about it until Insomniac posted his "why I hammered" post. Glad it didn't come back to bite me.
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Nice game, thanks for modding Jorbles!
The reason I hid the night we "lost the wifom battle" (not mad yuma!) was that I figured scum would just curse me before the lynch deadline anyways the following day so that was our only chance (can't hide when cursed).
yeah, between you and frisk that night was quite the toss up. I don't think we ever seriously considered night killing someone else... having 2 confirmed townies just wasn't ever something we wanted to have.
Oh yeah, my fake claim at least got you two to come out with info, which helped immensely.
O yes, that made night kills so much easier... I was hoping that Insomniac was going to pull out full claims for us, that would have helped even more.
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Good Game Scum! Suspected Cuzz, but definitally not yuma!
The game was definitally balanced, but the lost of all our PRs early really sank the town.
I also had a weird feeling I was the secret curser. Glad my lynch solved one problem.
MVP, in my opinion, should go to yuma. It was one of the best scum play I've ever seen! :P
and this time I didn't screw up the scum quickhammer for the win! I was super nervous about it. My wife said I was shaking as I wrote my vote post.
Haha I was a bit wary at the end too. Ever since Galz voted I was checking if you were signed in every half hour or so. When I saw you on this morning and started posting I was really just trying to say "you here? I'm here. Let's do this"
exactly... "Please see this, please vote, please see this, please vote" over and over and over again...
I had a tab open with Vote: jotheonah ready to fire and was refreshing the thread in another tab. Think I got it within 20 seconds or so.
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I will say that watching the speccy thread while being dead mafia is amazing. Almost worth getting lynched early for. Knowing just how wrong most of them were the whole time lets you know a lot about how people think about others in mafia, and helps you shape what to say in future games.
I thought, worst case, Cuzz was lynched next. Yuma was bussing hard for the possibility. I still felt sure yuma could pull it out, though.
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I will say that watching the speccy thread while being dead mafia is amazing. Almost worth getting lynched early for. Knowing just how wrong most of them were the whole time lets you know a lot about how people think about others in mafia, and helps you shape what to say in future games.
I thought, worst case, Cuzz was lynched next. Yuma was bussing hard for the possibility. I still felt sure yuma could pull it out, though.
Yes my game plan was to get a vote on Cuzz and then switch it for the hammer if someone else got 2 votes on them. But I am glad it didn't come down to that...
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I will say that watching the speccy thread while being dead mafia is amazing. Almost worth getting lynched early for. Knowing just how wrong most of them were the whole time lets you know a lot about how people think about others in mafia, and helps you shape what to say in future games.
I thought, worst case, Cuzz was lynched next. Yuma was bussing hard for the possibility. I still felt sure yuma could pull it out, though.
I just laughed and laughed every time yuma spelled out my exact scum reasoning in explicit detail in thread.
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Just finished reading the spec QT. I am forever terrified of ehunt.
good.
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I do want to apologize for my inattentive play this game, though. I should have trusted my instincts and replaced out; it was just one game too many.
Galzria, we have got to find a way to bury the hatchet/get better at reading each other. It seems like this isn't the first time we've been at each other's throats as both town, but it was certainly one of the most detrimental times.
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Oh man, we lose. Boo!
Good job to yuma, Cuzz, and ashersky.
I definitely nailed ashersky, but yuma and Cuzz were among the people lowest on my radar, so good for them.
As I say in the QT, I found Galzria scummy all the way to the end, even though I knew he was town (because he told us). I half didn't believe him, he was so scummy.
I was saddened and shocked that I got lynched as the Cop 2 minutes before day 1 deadline, because as Insomniac consistently pointed out, that was just terrible play. And it was terrible play that so many good players fell for. Sorry for seeming scummy, I guess? I had a long conversation with Volt about what I should do differently. Of course, the next game was Blitz3, where I was killed Night 1 as a town PR (I guess I was too pro-town), and in M-XV I'm dead without even getting to play round 1. If anyone has advice for me on how to continue to live in mafia, I'm all ears.
Once again, we must re-dedicate ourselves to lynch all lurkers (which actually sort of included Galzria and Jo here, so bleh). Also, policy lynch anyone who offers one for one "we kill you then I will be killed" trades. Said trades are bullshit.
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Major thanks to Jorbles for modding the game. It was a ton of fun.
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Robz, I'm sorry. Was obviously mostly my fault. I don't know what to say, we were really pressed on time and it was a super stressful situation. I had the extra knowledge of being the other strong power role, and put too much emphasis on that. Live and learn I guess. I screwed town over pretty bad considering I actually had some decent reads too (the super strong town reads on Insomniac and Grujah which no one remembered).
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"Lynch all lurkers" would not have covered yuma. He has limited RL availability, but made the most of it when he was around. Very well done.
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"Lynch all lurkers" would not have covered yuma. He has limited RL availability, but made the most of it when he was around. Very well done.
Yeah, this. Yuma played an excellent game. Rest of the scum team too.
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I told you it was invisiyuma. I was about to vote Galz, FWIW.
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Agree yuma is the MVP. Cuzz and Yuma made very good teammates, I'd say.
I agree as well. The only player on to him was Grujah, and he could never get things going even close to a chance to lynch yuma, everyone else was too busy trying to lynch town players.
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I told you it was invisiyuma. I was about to vote Galz, FWIW.
yeah, you were onto me from the start...