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[Grujah]

Unvote untill we sort the deal out. Also out to buy food, brb.

[Robz888]

That, of course, if today's lynch comes up as town.

Deal, now vote for yourself. I insist that you go first.

Maybe I read this wrong, but didn't it mean that after I vote for myself first, you would follow? As in, you lied to me now?

(maybe I also misunderstood it, that you actually though that you'll vote tomorrow, which was a meh deal, in that case).

Yeah man, I am not voting for myself today, because I don't want to die. Are you crazy? I'll vote for myself tomorrow, but you go first, scum. I mean your deal is crazy, but you may be scum and I know that I'm not.

[Robz888]

I demand a vote count. Also, an end to gigantic votes for people you're already voting for. It's freaky and confusing.

[Grujah]

Well, that's not a fair deal. Mine was that whomever naturally get's lynch today, other ones will sac his ass tommoz. Voting for myself I will not do, if it is only my part of the deal, and not yours too.

Vote: Robz888

[Grujah]

VC:

shraeye (1): Cuzz
Robz888 (6): Galzria,  Voltgloss, jotheonah, Grujah, ashersky, Captain_Frisk
Grujah (5): Eevee, yuma, Archetype, Insomniac, Robz888
Not voting (1): shraeye

Right?

[Robz888]

Well, that's not a fair deal. Mine was that whomever naturally get's lynch today, other ones will sac his ass tommoz. Voting for myself I will not do, if it is only my part of the deal, and not yours too.

Vote: Robz888

Okay, I didn't understand the deal. But if you kill yourself today I will kill myself tomorrow. That deal I'll make.

[Jorbles]

Vote Count 1.15:

Robz888 (6): Galzria,  Voltgloss, ashersky, Captain_Frisk, jotheonah, Grujah
Grujah (5): Eevee, yuma, Archetype, Insomniac, Robz888
shraeye (1): Cuzz
Not voting (1): shraeye

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Currently Cursed: Voltgloss, jotheonah

Curse deadline: Tuesday Oct 23, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)
Lynch deadline: Tuesday Oct 23, Noon PDT (3 pm forum time)

[Eevee]

So, basically everyone has got to choose between Grujah and Robz now. It's going to be either of them. I like Grujah more, although his gambits look more like stupid town play than anything tbh.

[Galzria]

unvote

Parsing my thoughts:

Grujah is town. Scum Grujah would -never- have offered a 1-1 trade on Robz unless Robz were also scum, which I just don't believe (that they're both scum, I mean). Basically, scum Grujah would KNOW Robz was town... There would be 0 reason for him to throw this offer of lynch trades on the table against a player already likely to be lynched.

Now, on the flip side, Robz comes back that he'll agree only if we lynch Grujah first - but Robz HAS to recognize the above and know with near certainty that Grujah is town. From his perspective - look, I know Robz better than this. He would NEVER, no matter the circumstances, agree to being lynched. He would never self vote or promote his own death. If we lynched Grujah and Grujah flipped town, Robz would fight just as hard against his own lynch tomorrow.

So, how believable is Robz' "let's lynch you first?". Personally? It's not. From town or scum Robz. So the sticking point I have is Robz' attitude that lynching Grujah should be ok, because I really don't see how Grujah could be scum after his proposal

To Robz himself: His "I won't get lynched" reeks of O's "You all won't lynch me anyway" in M-VIII where O (and Robz) were scum. Basically it came down to: To many town were inactive or thought O was just being O - asinine, but not scummy - and since he wasn't going to be bussed hard, there was no chance he would be lynched.

I've -never- understood that attitude. If you don't want to claim, that's one thing. But to act like there are enough people in the game that don't want you dead speaks towards knowing you've got people who will have your back. Robz then came out and claimed VT... Now, if he were a PR, MAYBE I could see a "I'm too important and valuable, so won't get lynched" attitude... But that's not the case here.

So I'm having a really hard time here. I hate bring wrong, though it's often inevitable. From an emotional standpoint, Robz has given me a town feel. But on actual substance I just don't draw that same conclusion.

So... I'm going to return to Vote: Robz. If I were to put a percentage on it, I would read 65% scum. But that's higher than I have on anybody else, and I'm comfortable enough with my read to keep my name on this wagon.

[Grujah]

Pardon me, I mean that light heartedly, although this is truly awful.

Kill Galzria and Volt, they should have known what I was doing.

BTW What he means here, is what Volt wrote in MXII Modnotes, and I copied in thread. That scum robz is calculating and that town robz is a wreck. I think he wanted to play that way, cuz he knows that Volt noticed that, so that Volt would defend him and later maybe flip town (Volt).

Still trying to go to shop.

[Voltgloss]

Chicken Vote: Galzria
Chicken.
Chicken Unvote

Chicken Vote: Robz888

[Insomniac]

unvote

Parsing my thoughts:

Grujah is town. Scum Grujah would -never- have offered a 1-1 trade on Robz unless Robz were also scum, which I just don't believe (that they're both scum, I mean). Basically, scum Grujah would KNOW Robz was town... There would be 0 reason for him to throw this offer of lynch trades on the table against a player already likely to be lynched.

Now, on the flip side, Robz comes back that he'll agree only if we lynch Grujah first - but Robz HAS to recognize the above and know with near certainty that Grujah is town. From his perspective - look, I know Robz better than this. He would NEVER, no matter the circumstances, agree to being lynched. He would never self vote or promote his own death. If we lynched Grujah and Grujah flipped town, Robz would fight just as hard against his own lynch tomorrow.

So, how believable is Robz' "let's lynch you first?". Personally? It's not. From town or scum Robz. So the sticking point I have is Robz' attitude that lynching Grujah should be ok, because I really don't see how Grujah could be scum after his proposal

To Robz himself: His "I won't get lynched" reeks of O's "You all won't lynch me anyway" in M-VIII where O (and Robz) were scum. Basically it came down to: To many town were inactive or thought O was just being O - asinine, but not scummy - and since he wasn't going to be bussed hard, there was no chance he would be lynched.

I've -never- understood that attitude. If you don't want to claim, that's one thing. But to act like there are enough people in the game that don't want you dead speaks towards knowing you've got people who will have your back. Robz then came out and claimed VT... Now, if he were a PR, MAYBE I could see a "I'm too important and valuable, so won't get lynched" attitude... But that's not the case here.

So I'm having a really hard time here. I hate bring wrong, though it's often inevitable. From an emotional standpoint, Robz has given me a town feel. But on actual substance I just don't draw that same conclusion.

So... I'm going to return to Vote: Robz. If I were to put a percentage on it, I would read 65% scum. But that's higher than I have on anybody else, and I'm comfortable enough with my read to keep my name on this wagon.

False when was the last time someone on FDS said they would be the next day lynch target and ACTUALLY were? Oh thats right noone ever follows through on the lynch me tomorrow if X is town because its TERRIBLE for town to do so.

[Eevee]

yuma just hammered Robz, right?

[Eevee]

Nah it was Galzria, damn your similar avatars. No hammer yet, Galz was on Robz already.

[Grujah]

unvote

Parsing my thoughts:

Scum Grujah would -never- have offered a 1-1 trade on Robz unless Robz were also scum, which I just don't believe (that they're both scum, I mean).

Why not? I might have actually told Robz' in our QT that I'd do this to gain town points. I didn't, though. 
(for those still stuck on semantics, no, this is not a scumslip where it slips me that we have a QT and that I just didn't post this thing there).

Ins - when did we have this kind of situation before?


PPE: @Eevee, I know, I had same situation when I was drunk.

[Galzria]

unvote

Parsing my thoughts:

Grujah is town. Scum Grujah would -never- have offered a 1-1 trade on Robz unless Robz were also scum, which I just don't believe (that they're both scum, I mean). Basically, scum Grujah would KNOW Robz was town... There would be 0 reason for him to throw this offer of lynch trades on the table against a player already likely to be lynched.

Now, on the flip side, Robz comes back that he'll agree only if we lynch Grujah first - but Robz HAS to recognize the above and know with near certainty that Grujah is town. From his perspective - look, I know Robz better than this. He would NEVER, no matter the circumstances, agree to being lynched. He would never self vote or promote his own death. If we lynched Grujah and Grujah flipped town, Robz would fight just as hard against his own lynch tomorrow.

So, how believable is Robz' "let's lynch you first?". Personally? It's not. From town or scum Robz. So the sticking point I have is Robz' attitude that lynching Grujah should be ok, because I really don't see how Grujah could be scum after his proposal

To Robz himself: His "I won't get lynched" reeks of O's "You all won't lynch me anyway" in M-VIII where O (and Robz) were scum. Basically it came down to: To many town were inactive or thought O was just being O - asinine, but not scummy - and since he wasn't going to be bussed hard, there was no chance he would be lynched.

I've -never- understood that attitude. If you don't want to claim, that's one thing. But to act like there are enough people in the game that don't want you dead speaks towards knowing you've got people who will have your back. Robz then came out and claimed VT... Now, if he were a PR, MAYBE I could see a "I'm too important and valuable, so won't get lynched" attitude... But that's not the case here.

So I'm having a really hard time here. I hate bring wrong, though it's often inevitable. From an emotional standpoint, Robz has given me a town feel. But on actual substance I just don't draw that same conclusion.

So... I'm going to return to Vote: Robz. If I were to put a percentage on it, I would read 65% scum. But that's higher than I have on anybody else, and I'm comfortable enough with my read to keep my name on this wagon.

False when was the last time someone on FDS said they would be the next day lynch target and ACTUALLY were? Oh thats right noone ever follows through on the lynch me tomorrow if X is town because its TERRIBLE for town to do so.

... Which is -exactly- what I said relating to Robz. So what's false about my statement?

Grujah is town for it because he made it WHEN THERE WAS NO PRESSURE ON HIM AND ROBZ WAS ALREADY AT L-1. Understand? Scum Grujah had NO reason to open his big mouth when the lynch was likely to go through anyway. All he did was put his name in direct contrast to Robz' FOR NO REASON.

Grujah is 95% town after that.

[Robz888]

My short answer to the whole Grujah proposition deal is this... I was lying. No, I wouldn't vote for myself tomorrow, or advocate my death in any way, shape or form. I care more about the town winning than keeping promises, especially stupid promises.

To be honest, there are many, many people who I think are more likely than Grujah to be scum. Ashersky for one (he is scum, as far as I am concerned). I also prefer lynches of yuma or Archetype, who are lurkers. Sharaeye has an excuse, fine. Separately, I think Jotheonah is scummier than Grujah. Volt and Galzria as well. In fact, the only people I find less scummy than Grujah are Frisk, Insomniac, and Eevee.

But the thing is, I've been wrong before, and the only thing I know for certain is that I am town. And I will lie, cheat, and steal to not be lynched today. Since Grujah is the only alternative, I'll promise him anything so that he goes down now, not me.

This is far from ideal, as I also suspect he's town (crazy, but town). But he has some chance of being scum, whereas I have none, in my view.

Does that explain my actions? If Galzria, Grujah, Eevee, Insomniac, Frisk and myself are all here can't we lynch someone else? How about ashersky? Though we still need 1 more I suppose. Ugh.

[Robz888]

Grujah is town for it because he made it WHEN THERE WAS NO PRESSURE ON HIM AND ROBZ WAS ALREADY AT L-1. Understand? Scum Grujah had NO reason to open his big mouth when the lynch was likely to go through anyway. All he did was put his name in direct contrast to Robz' FOR NO REASON.

Grujah is 95% town after that.

Now you sound like Frisk in M-XII. "Scum Grujah would never not read that Cuzz had already claimed Doctor, and also claim Doctor and be drunk!"

Frisk, why don't you share how far that thinking about Grujah got us. Go ahead.

[Insomniac]

@Galz no I don't understand because Grujah is at L-2. That IS pressure.

@Grujah multiple games can't recall any off the top of my head, I was the first instance of it I believe in M2 and I was town. But it was way later in the game and I was 100% sure Robz was scum.

[Cuzz]

Guys these are our only two viable lynches today. We are close to deadline, we cannot no-lynch, and Galz's explanation actually makes a lot of sense to me. Say what you'd like to say because I plan to hammer soon.

[Robz888]

Guys these are our only two viable lynches today. We are close to deadline, we cannot no-lynch, and Galz's explanation actually makes a lot of sense to me. Say what you'd like to say because I plan to hammer soon.

Hold on hold on hold on please. Please let me speak first. Let me rebut Galzria. Then give me one last warning before you do, please.

Galzria, Grujah could absolutely offer the 1-1 trade if it meant I was dying first. Would anyone hold him accountable to this tomorrow? No. And he's smart enough to know I would refuse it if it meant me dying first. It proves nothing.

[Eevee]

Guys these are our only two viable lynches today. We are close to deadline, we cannot no-lynch, and Galz's explanation actually makes a lot of sense to me. Say what you'd like to say because I plan to hammer soon.

Can't blame you.

Robz, you are awfully sure of ashersky.. awfully sure.

[Robz888]

Grujah could totally offer the trade, it was never going to actually happen, no matter what. He's whacky, and he's whacky as scum or as town. This should not disqualify him from being scum.

Please someone unvote me. Do not kill me.

[Captain_Frisk]

I'm excited for robz's rebuttal, but in the meantime

[Robz888]

Guys these are our only two viable lynches today. We are close to deadline, we cannot no-lynch, and Galz's explanation actually makes a lot of sense to me. Say what you'd like to say because I plan to hammer soon.

Can't blame you.

Robz, you are awfully sure of ashersky.. awfully sure.

Obviously I couldn't have gained any additional information yet, I just have a really big scum read on him.