First of all, I apologise. 64 posts in 3 game days is appalling from me. I think Space is town. Town that's annoyed because nobody has contributed that much this game. Which is a totally legit assessment of the game.
thread locked
D2 Final Vote Count
JaketheBaseballGod22 (2): Dylan32, SpaceAnemone
Dylan32 (4): JaketheBaseballGod22, Joseph2302, AndrewisFTTW, Robz888
AndrewisFTTW (1): gkrieg13
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Day 2 ends Saturday, April 1st at 6pm forum time.
So Space was off-wagon yesterday, Andrew was 3rd on it, and Robz hammered it. There's probably a bus there, which leans me towards Andrew, as he voted earlier, which scum tend to do.
I'm not sure how this long post seemed to go through Dylan not liking me into me being the goon. Logic seems severely flawed to me.
I was townie and around when it counted: lynching scum Dylan. You ended the day voting for the Doctor, if I remember correctly...
One townie act in the game, that would be super-easy for a bussing scum player to perform for town-cred... you can see why I'm sceptical, right?
I think it should be fairly straightforward to deduce that I am likely town at this point.
Why? What townie things have you done?
Besides being a pivotal vote for Dylan instead of Andrew? I think you'll find my play here mirrors almost exactly my play from Mafia 96, which is now over, in which I was also a Vanilla Townie.
True but if you are good, you chose one scum over another. Or you could be scum choosing scum over town for the cred. Like I already suggested.
This could be taken a couple of ways:
If he's scum, he would've been testing the waters on a mislynch of Gkrieg and me. Gkrieg and me didn't work out, so he was about to hammer Jake until he claimed. He then votes his partner but switches back to me even after he says he narrowly prefers Dylan. So I guess he would be doing this so he could say he was one of the original people to push Dylan's lynch in case he gets lynched (which he did say today already), but he still wants to try someone else, hence the sheeping of Gkrieg and the vote on me. He only hammers Dylan when it's clear nobody else is getting lynched.
Town!Robz doesn't have any solid reads by deadline. He has changed his mind about SA, had a slight scum read on Gkrieg but no real case on him, and so it doesn't really matter to him who is lynched. He votes for Gkrieg but sees there's no support for a Gkrieg lynch, so he tries a wagon on me since Gkrieg is pushing it, etc. etc.
I think Robz is capable of either of these scenarios, but I think the town one makes a little more sense, especially since he wasn't around for most of the day and thus it would've been harder to create reads. And scum!Robz would still have to back up his reads with something. Scum doesn't just randomly pick a member of town and completely fabricate a case, there's usually some truth as to whether they think something is scummy or not and they go off of that. Instead, Robz just laid it out on the table and said he didn't really have any solid reads and the couple reads he did have weren't based on much. I believe him. I also think the way he acted towards Dylan at the end of yesterday doesn't really make sense if they were partners. I think he would either have a solid townread on him or a solid scumread. He would either be completely against the lynch or all for it. Instead he's kind of all over the place. So I don't see the scum narrative for it.
So Andrew think Robz is town? That's confusing, since I'm reasonably sure they aren't both town.
Last game, schadd read me really well and was town, though I didn't believe him. So in the spirit of making up for that, I'm going to town read Andrew for reading me well here.
Vote: Joseph
If gkrieg's quite sure it's not Joseph, and decides to vote Andrew, would you sheep the IC?
Scum read: increasing.
An interesting question, and a decent enough response from Robz. Slight town read, as scum!Robz probably cares less about who is lynched (so long as it isn't him)
I really don't think Space is scum, by the way. Which means the only options are Andrew or Joseph.
I'll actually lynch either one of them, I guess, as long as we commit to lynching both of them in some order. We have enough days left to do that.
Ditto the same logic from my perspective. gkrieg & I are town, I'm reasonably sure Space is, so we lynch one of {Andrew, Robz} now, and lynch the other one tomorrow.
Right, so the first thing I did was to look at Dylan's play, and patterns of voting behaviour around him and the three unknowns (Andrew, Joseph, Robz).
In D1, Dylan voted Joseph at #189, and then didn't move his vote for the rest of the day. If he didn't take the opportunity to move onto the PPS wagon, I think it probably means that his partner was already on the wagon, since PPS sat at L-1 from #209 up to #279 (with a four-post break after PPS himself unvoted and before Jake joined)... if neither scum was on the wagon at that point, I think there's a strong chance one of them would have hammered. That kind of gives town points to Andrew, since Joseph and Robz were on the PPS wagon.
In D2, Robz voted for me right out of the box, and Andrew left me at L-1 from #321. I stayed there till Jake moved his vote at #379, and Dylan didn't hammer in that time. Now, Dylan, gkrieg and I had established a sort of mutual townread by then, so him hammering me might have been a bit too tricky to justify. I also think it's weak evidence for the other scum maybe also being on my tail at that point: that's either Robz or Andrew, so this time the possible-townpoints go to Joseph (who also didn't hammer me, which is also positive).
Dylan joined a Joseph wagon at #386, and I took Joseph to L-1 at #393. He didn't stop being on L-1 till gkrieg unvoted at #413, so I think that's also possibly a non-partner point for Joseph. The way Dylan moved to Jake at #439 also feels in hindsight very much like a scum looking for another mislynch opportunity now that the town wagon they're on is crumbling.
At #550, it's interesting, because Joseph puts Jake to L-1 on the wagon that Dylan started, and Jake doesn't get hammered by the other scum, so that's a bit of a scum-point for Joseph. OTOH, Robz does post intent in there at #553.
There's a lot going on after that, which is a deadline thing in general, but also a common thing Robz does to confuse town when he's scum. He's more noncommittal about the whole Andrew vs Dylan thing than he implies after the fact, really, because while he seems to say he's more open to lynching Dylan than lynching Andrew, his actions are kind of delay tactics, because he doesn't just pick Dylan and run with it, he comes in late and hammers.
Okay, so that ended up a bit more general than a pure Dylan voting re-read, but I feel pretty confident that my scumminess ordering goes Robz > Andrew > Joseph at this point.
So Dylan voted for me a lot, which makes me seem towny? Seems decent enough to me.
Okay, so this is going to be 10-min exercise in picking out things that make me uncomfortable about Andrew's play, since he's complaining there's no scum narrative for what he's done.
1) Ho opens with a load of nonsense stuff, like voting a non-existent player and voting his one stated townread. That kind of play is really just designed to signal that he's a player we might not get straight answers from, and to me it's a bad first impression.
2) There's also the "I'll be here making stupid comments in the meantime." thing at #83. Weirdly, he seemed to be talking some sense in between. Oh, and then #90: "And NOW I will resume the stupid comments." He's definitely working to establish himself as the type of person who won't let people take things too seriously, and as someone who prefers to take things seriously, he's really ringing my warning bells. None of this is directly scummy. Maybe it just explains some omgus on my part. I did deliberately say I'm looking for things that make me uncomfortable (rather than things that are definitely scum-indicative).
3) #127 -- talks about reading M88, which was covert affairs, and seems to be trying to bait Jake slightly. This is not pro-town.
4) He's making a few slight pushes at Jake. #219 is another one.
5) #252: backs Robz's entirely wrong interpretation of why I was trying to question Jake.
6) #294: still legitimizing Robz's lies about me!
7) #321: Makes up a whole narrative about why I was voting for PPS, which is utterly wrong. This was no case of "here's a scum narrative and here's a town narrative", it was a pure "SA did this set of things and look isn't it scummy" narrative. Votes for me, putting me up to an unannounced L-1.
8 ) #338: Tries to find a load of things to disagree with in what I've been saying. Seems to lose interest when I show that I'm making actual sense, but he doesn't move his vote.
9) #345: This is deliberate taunting! That post felt very annoying, because he's clearly flaunting the fact that he has the power to unvote, but has "chosen" not to pay any attention to my predicament. Then apologises about the L-1 without doing anything about the vote, which very much just rubs it in. The line a few posts later about "Speaking of slow, the line in this museum is ridiculous" (#351) seems designed for much the same effect of showing off about how much he's deliberately ignoring the fact I'm actually worried about being left at L-1. This is definitely not a pleasant or concerned townie way to play.
10) #371: Still deliberately voting.
11) #375: Now we add condescending to the list...
12) #400: partial case on gkrieg.
13) #427: Reacts with a snarky "sure, single me out" response when I ask why nobody was considering Andrew in the question of whether to lynch Robz or Jake. It genuinely seemed like both Dylan and gkrieg had just forgotten about Andrew's existence in their PoE. In Dylan's case, he's engineered his narrative so that he's only talking about the on-wagon set, so neatly gets to leave Andrew off. The fact that Andrew himself didn't see the clear fact that he was missing from any of this could actually be a bit of a scumslip, since in his mind as scum, he'd only be trying to frame people who're actually town.
14) #432: Urgh, why does he keep picking at me in a critical way. It's not like I don't justify every single thing he picks at. It just feels like he's trying to find something to frame me with, having realised that he can make me annoyed and defensive, since I already know I tend to get mislynched more often when I get defensive (but it's a hard habit to break).
15) #484: reads Jake's post as a townslip. This would be easier to do for a scum who knows for sure that Jake is town, since to town it actually doesn't look much like a townslip at all. Even Dylan picked up on that a few posts later.
Anyway, it's been way more than 10 mins, and I really have to go to bed now, so I'll finish this another time if more scumreadable things are required. I'm not going to be posting much tomorrow because I'll be in London restricted to phone posting while doing fun stuff for my birthday :-) Home on Sunday afternoon sometime.
Some pretty good arguments there. I kind of agree with a number of them. Andrew has been contributing a lot, but some of the posts have been leaning in the scummy direction.
And a lot of what Andrew has done in the last 2-3 days has been super-defensive.
PPE: 7? (all of gkriegs)
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Topic: M97: intrigue and treason and stuff (schadnd II) (it ended) (Read 97981 times)