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[fontisian]

Tomorrow it is.

[Witherweaver]

Okay, Haddock reread.  Sorry if this is a bit rushed.  Things have been busy and this takes a good block of time.

Day 1:

Comes in a little bit after things have started, first real post:

@Roadrunner7671 - why did you ask Seprix to 'chill'?

We had an incident recently, someone left the forum over a Mafia game. It's an ongoing game and a touchy subject, so we won't dwell into that.

But I don't want Seprix to leave or cause someone else to leave. Like, why would he assume someone was British or trying to make him look like a fool?

Man, why are you equating calling someone British with insulting them? 


Anyway.  Yeah I think I'm caught up now.  There's way too much going on in this game for me to follow easily though.  Phew.

Thoughts so far:
RR and Awaclus are being their usual town selves as far as I'm concerned.   Though haven't heard from Awa in a while?

Seprix is meh.  I come out null-scummy on him, but it's just gut, and my gut can't be reliable at all, I just don't have a feel for Seprix at this point.


J Reggie looks bad in places, and I think is worthy of a vote. Will check vote count before I do so, seems like lots of votes on him lately.


Melisandre does big posts in a kinda me-ish style, which I really like.  Need to read him more carefully to get anything out of it, but I lean towny on him overall.

I wanna have a closer look at ADK too, which I'll get to at some point.

Townie-ish.  Just opinions on what's taken place so far that seem genuine enough.

Next:

Though haven't heard from Awa in a while?

What do you mean? You heard from me today.

Don't worry, he is just overly suspicious of you. Trying to create a case and all

Not this again, e.  Seriously.

Awa hadn't posted between my two posts, which given the amount of other activity felt like a long time.  I didn't mean anything by it.



Anyhoo.  SS is being really super-duper helpful.  And I'm not sure what to make of it.  He will usually offer good helpful commentary and useful stuff piecewise, but this feels slightly too much, maybe?  Like it's slightly forced?
Also, obligatory "silver-hasn't-tunneled-anyone-yet-must-be-scum".

Does gkrieg usually do stream-of-consciousness rereads?  I probably give mild town points there either way, such things can be hard to emulate.  (OK, so prepost, apparently the answer is that he does do that.)

In general I think RRR is one of the easiest players to recognize as town. So if we mislynch him we're dumb, as Teproc said.

However, I do on fact lean town on RRR right now, though not very high confidence yet. Reads post incoming somewhat soon with explanations...

I think RR has become one of the hardest people for me to read now because he has stopped doing a lot of the newbie things that he started out doing.

This.  So much of this.  I swear I used to have such a good handle on him, and now I'm super paranoid.  Still think he seems towny so far this game though.

Hydrad seems much less active than usual. Like he's usually acti-lurking but this is just lurking. It's unusual so potentially a scumtell?

vote: Hydrad

WEEEAAAK.   I don't think this is unusual for Hydrad whatsoever.  Also, anyone with mildly lurky metas is gonna look super extra lurky D1 and D2 this game because of player numbers.

Babe, why are you yelling about a waffle? Waffles are delicious.

waffles are delicious indeed. but are they a towns food of choice?

Yes. The more I play the more I think hedging and waffling comes from town.

This does not mesh at all with what I know about your reads in previous games.  You have called me scummy for my D1 hedging in, like, every game we've ever been in together.  At least, someone has, and I think it has often been you...

Debatable at the very least. I'll say that the more I forgetabout you, the more likely yo are to be scum, generally.

This is an interesting hypothesis, and probably has merit.  Awa's scum-meta-defense is weak because it doesn't take into account (for contrast) how much of a royal pain in the derriere he can be as town.


Seprix perhaps looking less scummy than he did.

Still think a vote: J Reggie looks warranted.

Generally sounds good, townie.  Response regarding Hydrad is less likely to come from a partner. 

Okay don't want to quote everything.. says Awaclus is a little bit scummier for being helpful, which is generally an okay thought process, says RR is looking townie (not so sure there). Read on Awaclus changed, sounds fairly genuine, usually a good sign. 

Makes a post  on JReggie on stuff he doesn't like.  Hm.. first point for making a joke early on.. man lots of people do this all the time, it isn't a tell one way or the other.  Second for proposing scum teams... man lots of people do this all the time, it isn't a tell one way or the other.  Criticizes an (effective) town v. town call from JReggie, okay I'm alright with that.  Buddying, okay that can be a thing.  One post he gets bad feelings from.  Hedging, okay.. another criticism for joking.  Well, then he admits it's a stretch, an we agree there.  Hm.. town Haddock pretty often makes big cases/explanations for votes, which I usually find him scummy for and am wrong like.. 3/5 of the time or something.  Not sure what him building up a case like this and calling it out as not that solid means.  Null I guess.

But it's interesting that you're defending him why are you defending him?

Is she, though?  Where?

Also, I've lost track, but you seem to be at least semi-tunnelling fontisian here.  Which  makes me think you're town.  Seriously.  Town!SS always always tunnels someone on D1, and is usually found scummy for it.

Eh, I don't think so.  SS is a pretty meta-aware player.

A number of posts on how he hasn't been around/can't get into it/etc. ... this:

Haddock:

   Few posts, but some of them are pretty long. Is tunneling J Reggie pretty hard. His reads seem kind of floaty, like he doesn't quite know where he's landed yet. I would like to see more from him but he's landed on town for now. Status: Wouldn't lynch.

Yeah I'm really struggling to contribute here.  Gonna try to put something in tonight, right now I'm taking a break from writing a talk.

I wanna say: I'm not really tunnelling Reggie, I just voted him a while back and haven't had enough of a coherent thought about this game yet to find someone I really want to vote for.

I think scum is usually more concerned with this than town. 

Votes Jan for buddying him:

12. Haddock
Going slightly against "number two", but not really.
Calls out ADK for a weak vote on Hydrad, which is potentially good.
Then goes in depth about his reads and reasons. Open minded (changing his awaclus read on revisiting) reads well.

Reads like a useful player to have around, and all around towny.
Kinda ignored the reggie reread right now, but everythign else was good and fine.

You read 3 of the people who pushed the best content in this game (Teproc, Haddock, Seprix) that you know in your scum list, and you don't even have a reason. (I don't count fonti/meli since you don't know them)

I appreciate these two compliments from Jan, but don't feel like I've earned them at all, which makes me super paranoid; I'm struggling not to see this as buddying. 

Sorry if these are genuine, Jan, I bet I look super ungrateful now.
But until I find something better,
vote: Jan

Not really sure how to take it.  Sounds a little bit forced, could be a "hey I need to move my vote around so I look like I'm doing something".

Of Jan and e, I think e is more likely to be town.  I don't really want those to be the only choices though; my read on Jan is weaksauce.

Silver is probably town.

I could probably go for Seprix or liopoil if that became a thing; I guess I have to leave my vote where it is for now.  But this is not ideal.
Man I feel like this game only just started, I never have gotten into it, there's just too many people.

He hasn't really commented on any of the major wagons that arose throughout the day, or much else that had happened beyond his few individual reads.  Once again comments about not getting into it.  Goes for Lio:

Just reread Jan, don't have the time for a detailed reread but I don't want to lynch him. The e vs Jan thing feels like typical town v town overblowing things, but especially Jan's frustrated reaction to our meta reads townie : I think scum is a lot more likely to try to silently adapt to it while town will express that frustration and continue doing what they're doing.

Don't want to lynch e either (changing your mind radically is a town tell if anything, on top of everything else)... silverspawn I guess ? I don't know if I'll be around for deadline, but I feel fine leaving my vote where it is, the leading wagons are just not any good.

OK.
Let's try vote: liopoil.  I don't think he's been very towny.

For me it's liopoil = seprix > Hydrad > silver>>>>>e
Dunno where silver suddenly came from.
I find seprixs playstyle generally scummy but have played with him twice so who the hell knows.

And no its obvious that a Hydrad lynch is better than a no lynch.

Hydrad in classic partner position. 

If lio wants to claim the time is now.
Fine with seprix too. And RR Hydrad could well be scum. There's just no way to know.  That makes him better than a no lynch.

Not sure if you bring a partner up specifically in this way (arguing why he should be lynched against someone strongly opposed).

It's like L-5. But OK Hydrad is fine.
vote: Hydrad.

Ppe unless that was the hammer...

Hydrad was at 3 votes, now 4.  Possible bus.

And there are scummy people on the seprix wagon.

But still Hydrad or seprix over e at this point.
Lio is still acceptable in spite of everything.

Ugh. There should not be this much resistance to the Hydrad lynch.
Fine where I am for now.

Less likely a bus now.

Says he'd be okay with Awaclus lynch, gets on the wagon as the 5th vote (L-4), and Awaclus gets lynched.

End of Day 1.  Starts of fairly townie, gets scummy, gets a little bit townier towards the end of the day.  Sticking with the Hydrad vote when it's easy to move gets a little bit of town cred, but you don't want to appear too eager to get off your partner.  Overall null I guess.

Day 2 next. 

 

[Witherweaver]

Day 2:

Comes out gunning for J Reggie:

Haddock and e and Teproc need to be under more scrutiny, because they often get very strong townreads when they're scum. Haddock looked towny D1, which can be a scumtell for him.

I've played 4 scum games, two RMM.
In one normal game I was indeed a town read for most players.

In the other I was read as scum throughout d.

 In one RMM game I barely got to play.
 In the other I was found scummy to the point of nearly being lynched, saved myself with a fake claim that convinced 90% of town but then got vigged.

So you can't really conclude this at all. 

The converse is kinda true though. This is my first ever town game where I've been generally seen as town on d1.
So you kinda have a point. Why am I being town read this game? Dunno, except it's probably that I didn't contribute enough d1 and so people didn't get to see my usual hedging.

Anyhoo.
I think the seprix thing is bad. I didn't want to comment much on this yesterday because it had a big effect on fruit ninja Mafia which was ongoing.  Seprixs behaviour this game is very like his behaviour there. So I think he's likely town. I didn't want to say this earlier because it would have made my "scumread on seprix" in fruit ninja less believable.  Sorry about that.

E could maybe be scum here, seems an OK place to start.  I've never seen scum Teproc that I recall. But he seems towny.

Actually I think reggie warrants scrutiny. I think he's a terrifyingly good new player. But his comments here are similar to his scum play in fruit ninja. vote: j reggie

This is all a phone post, better stuff coming later hopefully.

Generally don't like just using your read from yesterday to start off the next day.

Haddock's last big post gives me a slight town read on him.

I appreciate it, but I have repeatedly proven that I make big posts as both alignments.

He does not seem to appreciate being called town this game, continually reminding us how he hasn't earned it.  Really, though, I'm not sure scum!Haddock would do this.  Or at least not to this extent. 

On my catchup reread, first two things I noticed.

1)

Awaclus (9): Seprix, silverspawn, liopoil, Haddock, A Drowned Kernel, Roadrunner7671, fontisian, Ichimaru Gin, Jan.  That's the final Awaclus wagon.  so if I color it, I get Awaclus (9): Seprix, silverspawn, liopoil, Haddock, A Drowned Kernel, Roadrunner7671, fontisian, Ichimaru Gin, Jan, which looks about right for the wagon.

What is that based on?

Also idk if I'm that good of a scum player. I got lynched pretty easily in Fruit Ninja Mafia which is my most recent scum game.

Not really game related, but don't downplay yourself!  You were brutally bussed by both your partners.  Hell, I LED that wagon.


This:

well: iguana

Let me explain you what I believe just happened.

iguana is scum. Scum has daychat. iguana forgot that it was not in the setup. his calling it a town slip is a scum slip. Then, when he realized what he had done, he fabricated this explanation:

So the fact that this question about daychat likelihood even occurred to him indicates town.

which I do not buy. He called it a "classic townslip". Openly wondering about something town does not know - that is not a town slip. That is the lack of a scum slip. it is what scum does with almost every post, whenever they voice a read on someone, they are pretending to think about something they already know.

I actually buy this.  Happy to vote iguana once I check I'm not derphammering or something stupid.

Quick to buy the Iguana slip argument.  Votes soon after:

vote: iguana

More to come.

Why do you town-read Seprix? [the only reasons I could see signs of 'town-Seprix' in his D1 play, are reasons based on WIFOM]. Do you have any tangible reasons?

Did I explain my meta-reason for townreading Seprix?  (I know you don't love meta reasons, but they're what I got).  I think I mentioned it.  Basically, read Fruit Ninja Mafia, where I was scum.  He was town there but I enjoyed painting him as scummy because of some weird behaviour he had.  If he's scum here, he's imitating that behaviour pretty damn well.

I'd expect Teproc/Melisandre to be killed N1. I do not like the IG kill at all. I think Teproc or Melisandre is scum already, maybe even both.

Can you break this down to me. All of it. Line by line. Even if it's a wall-post. We sort this now.

It's quite simple. Melisandre, you have been driving the game forward like a good little town. However, you're not lynched yet. Why? Teproc is widely considered the best town player on f.ds, so how is he not dead yet? I think it's very reasonable to conclude (especially with a very odd IG NK) that one of you, and possibly both (I won't go that far) is scum.

WIFOM WIFOM.
This is weak about Meli in particular.

I CAN kinda see the Teproc argument, though that's WIFOM too.  Teproc hasn't looked outright scummy to me so far, and I'm thinking I might targetted reread him in a bit.

In other news, my gut is still finding lio's latest stuff scummy.  There's probably some confirmation bias here, but this:

The end of yesterday makes me read Seprix as much more likely to be town. He just had lots of genuine split-second reactions. So I'll assime he's town for now. Makes me feel suspicious of hydrad/iguana, because that wagon had way too much resistance. If iguana is town, then all the end-of-day wagons were town, and so scum is likely to be waiting and just letting town choose their mislynch. Either way, makes me lean town on everyone who pushed the Hydrad lynch. Who was that? I'll go check.

This makes much more sense to me.

I disagree with.  To me, this looks like lio coming up with a pretty convoluted reason to find people-pushing-Hydrad towny, and in doing so perhaps he distances himself from a partner?  That's a long shot, sure.
 But I don't agree that this argument makes a whole lot of sense.  Too many ifs and buts.

Generally townie post.  Seprix read seems reasonable. 

Reads Teproc, says he's townie.  Some back and forths with people.  Goes a little townier on J Reggie, doesn't agree with cases on e or ADK, I'm now in and townie, Silver nullish, he's for lynching Iguana or Lio.

I'm here!  And will be all evening.

I intend to have another look at iguana to see if I still agree with recent!me.  lio still looks really scummy and I could go there, but will stay where I am for now since there's no lio wagon to speak of.

Vote has stayed on Iguana for a long time.  Bus is getting less likely, or else he thinks Iguana is a goner and is fully committed.  I suppose he did that as scum before (he even brought it up).

Haven't reread iguana yet, but will do in a minute.

In the meantime, catching up, I realised that @gkrieg, you never did clarify that question you asked me that made no sense.  As I understood it to mean, it misrepresented me pretty hard.  So yeah I'm not gonna let you pretend you never asked the question.  I need you to tell me what you actually meant by it.

I also just saw my Reggie case from ages ago.  It's actually not a bad case, for D1!me, anyway.

As it stands, pre-iguana reread, my instinct is:
Would lynch:
iguana, liopoil, maybe Reggie.

Meh, could do I guess:
fontisian, ADK, gkrieg

Wouldn't lynch:
Witherweaver, silver

Probably wouldn't lynch: everyone else

Makes a big post about Iguana:

OK, so iguana does look bad in general, to my mind.  That's separate from the apparent scumslip.

There's lots of little things, but just a couple of posts I noticed on reread, which stood out as things I hadn't yet commented on:

This case on Lio is actually quite good. But I doubt it quite a bit, because it's coming from my second strongest scumread. Teproc early day looked awful, then he disappeared. Coming back with this does not inspire my confidence in the case.

This is really scummy from my perspective, amplified by the fact that I strongly disagree with his read on Teproc/Witherweaver.

People I currently don't want to lynch today:

liopoil
e (towny reads post recently)
RR (towny and easier to read later)
Awaclus (townread has intensified, just meta though)
J Reggie (Still towny)
Meli (At this point has just too much content to lynch today. If he were scum I'd would expect him to at least be trying to direct a lynch or something if he posts so much, but he's not voting)
Ichimaru Gin (Thinking like town)

People I don't have a reason to want to lynch:
fontisian (Not worried about content or buddying anymore)
silverspawn, gkrieg13
Teproc (We'll see...)

People there is some reason to lynch:
ADK, Hydrad, Haddock (Lurking)
Jan, Seprix (Still a bit scummy)

e being high town on this reads post makes no sense at all.  So there's something scummy from Lio... hmm....

Liopoil: Why'd you put e as town there?

Disagreement is not a scumtell.  And e is actually looking towny lately, fwiw (in his most most recent posts, anyway, which are not THAT recent). 

Haddock is like treading water the whole game, just popping in every so often to say "Still haven't caught up yet! I'll post some content later!" Don't like it.

...

Also could seriously go for a silverspawn lynch.... MAYBE Teproc (WW much townier, & his late-day play does not read like scum to me.) Could also lynch: Haddock, Gkrieg, e

for now Vote: ADK

Well, that was a mess. Good luck reading 60 pages in 24 hours Witherweaver! It's, uh, not going to be fun.

He's been nullreading me up to this point.  I just think it's wonderfully ironic that he's accusing me of treading water when he's actually had way more posts than me saying "I'm trying to catch up, I promise!"  Since I'm town, though, and I have been struggling this game, I can hardly scumread him for such posts.  And he's being quite hypocritical by using that as a reason to scumread me.


The main reason to not lynch iguana, from my perspective, is the fact that he and I disagree so much.  If he's town, then having someone whose reads disagree with mine probably increases the chance of winning, overall.

If he's bussing, he's really selling it. 

Reaction to the weird Iguana claim:

What the hell is going on?

II is hammered, right?

I'll unvote just in case RRs ranting has any truth to it.

Null I guess.

D2 is townier than D1, because of some genuine-seeming analysis and heavy commitment to lynching Iguana. 

[Witherweaver]

Day 3:

Goes Lio:

Also, lio's weird PR softclaim is looking really really unlikely now. 
And he was offwagon.
And he's scummy.

Yep.
vote: lio

Talks about game setup stuff, kills, etc.  Continue to find Lio scummy but then backs off. 

OK, so brief catchup.

I still think lio has done some bad things, I strongly disagree with many of his reads and his stances are weird.  So yeah he's still pretty scummy.  But his recent stuff gives me town vibes.

Meantime, Seprix's stance re. iguana looks really terrible.  He opposes the lynch, gets on the wagon eventually, unvotes as SOON as he possibly can after iguana's claim (in a weird-looking way, not in a genuinely-convinced-by-the-claim kinda way), and then eventually hammers after iguana's selfvote and scum claim.

I think frustrated partner is believable here.

vote: Seprix for now, and I'll give him a targetted reread later.

Moves to Seprix.  This is townier, because his Seprix read has flip flopped throughout the days, and each one comes with legitimate new information. 

Oh, hey, this was the slip where Seprix was actually killed.  Who did Font claim to kill that night?  I don't remember.. other target was J Reggie.  Well if this was a constructed slip it goes against my reasoning above.  His reaction to the fallout is townie-ish I guess.

Okay, he goes back to Lio:

vote: lio again.

My days. I must be tired.

Still voting Lio, but doesn't really like it:

Grah.

OK.
So. I need to look for options other than lio.
Silver is worth reading at some point I think. I haven't paid him enough attention so far.  Obviously his iguana position looks really good but if multi ball is a thing then he might be scum anyway. Definitely he's not a priority though.

RR is another one I want to reread.  I haven't seen RR this crazy in a while.

Goes Gkrieg:

vote: gkrieg
Call it OMGUS if you like.  I can't be certain there isn't some such motivation. 
But I do think he's scummy.  Also WW is towny and his rereads indicate scum!gkrieg.

I don't really think there's a reason to do this as GKrieg's partner.

A big post about e, where he ends up voting e. 
 

I just reread ADK. 

I would like RR to elaborate on this:

I'm still happy with an ADK lynch. His interactions couldn't be worse.

Right now would lynch e or lio, and MAYBE gkrieg.

e>lio>>>>gkrieg.

Well now Gkrieg is lower, so the point above is mooted.  So Gkrieg was at, hm, no votes then.  It came right after my big read on Gkrieg, where I pointed out a number of scummy things.  So if it was a bus here.. well, he would have had to thought the points I made seemed pretty reasonable but thought there would be time to change things.  So by previous point still stands a little.

vote: lio I guess.
Not my favourite thing ever but I think he's better than ADK

Back to Lio, I think it was just Lio vs. ADK at this point. 

ADK gets hammered, reaction:

Crappy time for the forum to misbehave.  I've been trying to post this (among other things) for ages.

So ADK is hammered? Hmm.  I don't think I like that we didn't let him claim. Or the lynch in general. But I guess it could be worse.

If ADK is town, e's hammer is pretty bad. There was still lots of time.

End of Day 3.  Fairly townie. 

[Witherweaver]

That brings us up to today.

Overall I don't think Haddock is likely scum.  He looks better than I remember RR being.  Maybe better than Lio as well.  My inclination is not to shoot here.

I will try to finish up during the day tomorrow.

[Roadrunner7671]

Can I just say that if WW is scum he deserves to win?

Also, if he's scum, he needs a hobby. Maybe Dominion?

[Roadrunner7671]

Honestly liopoli still looks bad because of his 'claim.'

On the night I motivated him there were 2 kills. I doubt that matters.

But liopoil, can you full claim? If not, why?

[2.71828.....]

Any strategy that does not involve lynching fontisian is ridiculous

[liopoil]

Honestly liopoli still looks bad because of his 'claim.'

On the night I motivated him there were 2 kills. I doubt that matters.

But liopoil, can you full claim? If not, why?

Hold up, you shoud KNOW based on your result that I am neither investigative nor killing, which is the truth. Indeed, I have claimed that I don't have an active role. There is absolutely no benefit to me claiming, srsly r u scum. If you want to know my role so badly you can reread me and mybe then you'll have a theory. I can only think of three roles which make sense with my play, and two of them are similar.

[liopoil]

The good news is that it's looking even mkre like e/silverspawn. I think that fontisian should kill silverspawn and nobody else.

[liopoil]

Actually, Roadrunner, if we don't win tomight, I'll claim tomorrow and it might be useful; not harmful anymore.

Scum you should kill fontisian because if you don't she will still be bulletproof tomorrow and we won't lynch her and then either she or MAYBE town will win.

[liopoil]

I'm at this weird spot where I really believe that fontisian told the truth about everything but also think she should have lied.

[Witherweaver]

Honestly liopoli still looks bad because of his 'claim.'

On the night I motivated him there were 2 kills. I doubt that matters.

But liopoil, can you full claim? If not, why?

Hold up, you shoud KNOW based on your result that I am neither investigative nor killing, which is the truth. Indeed, I have claimed that I don't have an active role. There is absolutely no benefit to me claiming, srsly r u scum. If you want to know my role so badly you can reread me and mybe then you'll have a theory. I can only think of three roles which make sense with my play, and two of them are similar.

The investigative part of RR was one-shot.

[Witherweaver]

Actually, Roadrunner, if we don't win tomight, I'll claim tomorrow and it might be useful; not harmful anymore.

Scum you should kill fontisian because if you don't she will still be bulletproof tomorrow and we won't lynch her and then either she or MAYBE town will win.

.... so, 1) how do you know fontisian is still bulletproof, 2) if so, how would we win tonight?

[Witherweaver]

Okay, Silverspawn.

Day 1:

First post,

I want to be the voice of Chihiro in Spirited Away.

IG's early entrance gives me a town vibe. vote: J Reggie

Not sure what in Ichi's posts would give a town vibe at this point. 

Votes ADK (real vote) not too far after:

silverspawn I really hope you're town because you're the scary championship person expert. You have to read them and stop them from lynching me.

I am, don't worry... finally. had too many scum games recently.

Tryhard scum is tryhard.

Really? Do you think an experienced scum would open the game like this?

I wouldn't expect an experienced town player to do so either. Melisnandre being from a different site with a different meta makes this hard to evaluate, but "scummy" is where I'm landing.

And why?

Vote: Awaclus

Someone after my own heart.

vote: Melisandre

Vote: seprix for repeatedly voting for people trying to get us out of RVS.

vote: ADK

I disagree with the Melisandre vote, but I don't see how "voting for people trying to get us out of RVS" is scummy. If those votes are not RVS themselves, then why would voting for them get us back into RVS? Or is it bad for other reasons?

Seems okay.

Likes ADK voting Teproc, rude.  Though he's still voting ADK.  Talks about Awaclus meta, RR meta:

Let's not spoil the delightful (mmmph) surprise of discovering Awaclus to our new friends, please. Same with RR really.

Actually, we probably should spoil it. It's better if we avoid too much confusion.

Awaclus thinks that town should explain why they're town, rather than players explain why others are or aren't town. Therefore he never gives reasons for votes. He also votes for me every game with his first post even if I'm the mod.

RR is paranoid, jumpy, and weird, and tries to replicate that if he's scum. Overreaction to pressure is not a scum tell.

The RR comment is interesting, as it's kind of a preemptive defense.  Could see Silver treating a partner RR in this way.

Votes Teproc:

@silverspawn it's just a bad feeling I get when I see people pushing back against people who make real votes and reads early. Scum wants to try and shut down and discourage actual discussion. Also "you can't have a real read yet! vote so-and-so" is an easy way for scum to look like they're contributing without taking a particularly risky position.

good enough for me to vote: Teproc instead

Calls JReggie scummy for joking in response to Meli's question, eh, I don't agree. 

Policy votes:

vote: JReggie
vote: RR
vote: Seprix

RVS is a process. And that process is over. It's over over. It's not even close. We're past the point of arguing.

[Non-game related, will the site stop the-enter-the-letters-into-the-box-verfication-thing before every post?] 

yes, it will soon.

Strikes me as more town from Silver. 

Discusses some Melisandre meta, agrees with the case against Seprix, but his vote is already there. 

Comment about Hydrad:

I did not like this intro post. It feels very detached/distant.

It felt very Hydrad to me.

Another player with a strange meta. You can tell that we're giving a lot of weight to meta. You may refer to his signature.

In this case his meta is making occasional, generally short and sort of uninvolved posts which casually comment on what's going on, which he imitates frustratingly well as scum. Telling the difference is not easy.

Some more discussion on player's meta.  I think that's null for Silver. 

Defends Hydrad:

It's difficult to form reads with this many damn people. Like I just looked at the player list and Hydrad's apparently in this game? What has he said?

He has two posts. One was his typical catch-up post. Then the second one was what I called the most Hydrad post ever. It's super scummy, blatantly buddying the guy who is attacking him, and basically doing exactly what he has just been accused of.

All in all, think we can safely say that he has not been murdered and replaced by another person.

Does a reread.  Stays townie on IG (first thing he's said about IG since his initial statement), town for Awaclus for voting Seprix, town for Meli and scum for Seprix based on their interaction earlier.  Says ADK votes Seprix without a good reason and that's interesting, hedges on J Reggie, points out a townie thing Seprix did, says J Reggie is bad, says he's worse, makes a comment not relating to the game, then votes J Reggie.  Complains to RR about RR's RVS thing, town on font, back to scummy on Seprix, a little less scummy on J Reggie, now decides that Hydrad is indeed kind of scummy and not just Hydrad-affected, town on Lio.  Summarizes:

town: lio, font, awaclus
scum: Seprix, JReggie, Jan, Hydrad

Goes back to voting Seprix.

Treatment of Hydrad is a little suspicious.. interesting that he left IG out of his final 'town'. (The only thing's he's said about IG is that he looks town without much reason.)  Maybe that indicates townier here, as if IG was a constructed read he'd probably remember to include him at the end.  Fairly consistent with ultimate reads regarding Seprix and J Reggie; he assigned some town/scum points throughout, but those were his two targets before the read and they're his main targets after.

Oh. Yeah one thing I don't like is silver's reluctance to accept that I'm an IC.

This is one of the most absurd things you've ever posted in mafia.

I am town reading you. Not much, but I am.

All I said was that your town slip is not a town slip. Which is obviously true. Do you think it was a townslip? No, you don't, because it wasn't. So what gives?

this reread seems scummy to me

Could it be because it scumreads you?

Yeah but why is IG a townread?  Actually this post from IG strikes me as scummy (IG emulating IG).

Doesn't buy the Lio case. Says Jan is scummy for back-and-forth with Meli.  Then votes Jan in the next post:

Why does it make a huge difference to you if i vote on her or not?

Asking "why does it make a difference to you that I'm doing something?" is, like, inherently scummy. It makes a difference to me if you're scum, because I win this game by lynching scum. Everything scummy you (or anyone else) does automatically makes a difference to me. I shouldn't have to explain this.

The less scummy way of asking that would have been "why do you think it's scummy that I didn't vote?" It's scummy because it's a lack of commitment. Your phrasing indicated a pretty high level of confidence, and the case on lio is pretty bad, so a switch seemed to be appropriate.

This is a weak point and I knew it was weak when I just said it a minute ago, but I did it anyway because provoking people is good. And look here, it got you to say the next scummy thing right away.

As you might have read, there is a more than random chance that if one of them flips scum both might, (in my eyes) why do you think relieving pressure of lio without putting real pressure on fonti is useful?

vote: Jan

you're supposed to vote for whom you think is scum. Thinking too much in terms of pressure is a scum tell. And lio was not even close to being lynched.

You are likewise doing what lio was accused of, which is overreacting to pressure, except you're doing it in the way that scum would actually do it, i.e. not self-conscious at all. Which is another thing you didn't do in the championship game.

Strikes me as scummy.  Like the "I think maybe I should vote for this guy but I need to make sure it looks justified first" kind of thing.

Also, I've lost track, but you seem to be at least semi-tunnelling fontisian here.

I'm townreading fontisian. Do you mean Jan?

God, weird choice of words.  Makes him sound aloof from his actual opinions.

Some discussions with people, says he likes ADK, says e looks town, dislikes Font voting e, not opposed to Lio wagon but likes Jan better:

I'm actually not at all opposed to this wagon

but I like Jan even better.

This is a town point; Lio was a townread earlier, Silver pays attention to those things, scum!Silver probably feels the need to justify willingness to support lynching Lio.  Wagon preference a bit later:

Jan > lio > Seprix > e

Not moving yet.

Some explanation:

Jan > lio > Seprix > e

Not moving yet.

Talk to me about the why.

I have seen you play one time. I know you can use words.
The are not as good as mine, but they are still words.

The case I made on you still applies. Your reaction to being the biggest wagon was not good at all, you gave the impression of scum flailing in sight of your inevitable lynch, instead of town who tries to avoid a stupid mislynch. Your weird semi-tunneling of me without voting isn't good either.

e is a strong (relative to day1) townread for me. His reaction/flip is genuine, I've talked about that I believe

Seprix just seems to get himself into trouble unnecessarily, and his pushing of me is not good but weird as scum. I put him on the towny side of null.

and lio I don't really have a grasp on, but with how the others stand he's definitely between you and Seprix

Analyzes the votes against Lio here.

Proposes Hydrad late:

Oh. I didn't realize it was 7/2 now. That's bizarre.

let's try vote: Hydrad. Last hour switch, anyone?

When Lio is at L-2.  Some discussions..

JReggie looks terrible here. Distances himself from lio while avoiding the alternative.

until now I was fine with the lio lynch. But his claim doesn't seem to be something that comes from scum.

Hydrad wagon should move to seprix

but I don't like Seprix as much as Hydrad. Seprix is about as good as you are now in my book.

Who thinks we could get an awaclus Lynch cobbled together in the next ten minutes?

I'd support that over lio and Seprix.

vote: Awaclus

10 minutes is still enough to go 180° and lynch lio if this does not work out.

lol. How does lynching Awaclus give us any more information than Hydrad?
Contradiction much?

true words.

These are.. odd.  The nature of how these reads changed.  What happened to Hydrad as the alternative; why Lio?  The statement regarding J Reggie doesn't make a  lot of sense.. is the implication that Lio is scum and J Reggie is?  He seemed to think Lio was town earlier in regards to his wagon and how it dissipated.   Oh, maybe I'm misreading his analysis of the Lio wagon; he says it doesn't look like people trying for a mislynch, so Lio is less likely town.  There are other posts in there besides the ones I linked but I'm trying to go kind of fast.

Day 1 for Silver goes townier to scummier overall, not strongly in either direction. 

Have to get back to work.  I'll continue with D2 later. 

[Witherweaver]

I'm probably not going to be able to do a targeted reread of Font.  I'm not sure if it would be worthwhile. 

[liopoil]

Actually, Roadrunner, if we don't win tomight, I'll claim tomorrow and it might be useful; not harmful anymore.

Scum you should kill fontisian because if you don't she will still be bulletproof tomorrow and we won't lynch her and then either she or MAYBE town will win.

.... so, 1) how do you know fontisian is still bulletproof, 2) if so, how would we win tonight?

1) I'm assuming the worst
2) Probably fontisian will ot use the bulletproof tonight so the shot will go through.

[Witherweaver]

Pretty sure bulletproof would be passive...

[Haddock]

Pretty sure bulletproof would be passive...

She already said it was active.  I think?

Case coming on lio, though it seems WW has done the work for me (thanks WW!)

[2.71828.....]

Pretty sure bulletproof would be passive...

She already said it was active.  I think?

SK having passive 1-shot BP is pretty standard. Didn't see a claim that it was active.

[Haddock]

I was taking it from this:

I won't say whether I've used bulletproof.

Which is admittedly not much.  Fonti can you confirm one way or the other?  I'm not asking you if you've used it, just the type.

[fontisian]

It is active. Can we maybe stop talking about this?

[Haddock]

Crap.  Major personal issue going down right now.

Can't bring myself to care about the game too much.

Shoot silver and then:
 me or liopoil, it probably doesn't matter that much, I suspect we're both town.  If you're bothered though I'll say lio is scummy for reasons, not least how difficult it has been to lynch him this game.  And those that WW said.

And I'm towny.

I'm sorry.  g2g.

[Haddock]

I'll vote before deadline if necessary.

Still mild preference for fonti but e is scum so that's fine.

[Witherweaver]

Silver D2:

Some pondering on kills, end of day, says scum might stay off wagon (he was on wagon), disagrees with starting off with Lio (not sure why, since he was a last-second alternative to Awaclus).  Thinks Meli is townie, Seprix might be scummy for maybe faking regret, says some stuff like this:

Awaclus (9): Seprix, silverspawn, liopoil, Haddock, A Drowned Kernel, Roadrunner7671, fontisian, Ichimaru Gin, Jan.  That's the final Awaclus wagon.  so if I color it, I get Awaclus (9): Seprix, silverspawn, liopoil, Haddock, A Drowned Kernel, Roadrunner7671, fontisian, Ichimaru Gin, Jan, which looks about right for the wagon.

What is that based on?

Also idk if I'm that good of a scum player. I got lynched pretty easily in Fruit Ninja Mafia which is my most recent scum game.

which worries me, various comments/questions with people that aren't very consequential, and then this:

well: iguana

Let me explain you what I believe just happened.

iguana is scum. Scum has daychat. iguana forgot that it was not in the setup. his calling it a town slip is a scum slip. Then, when he realized what he had done, he fabricated this explanation:

So the fact that this question about daychat likelihood even occurred to him indicates town.

which I do not buy. He called it a "classic townslip". Openly wondering about something town does not know - that is not a town slip. That is the lack of a scum slip. it is what scum does with almost every post, whenever they voice a read on someone, they are pretending to think about something they already know.

which is a pretty forced argument.  Not sure the point of scum!Silver doing this.. he did go from decidedly null to scummy on Hydrad during Day 1, so he may come scummy on Iguana for consistency (intentionally or unintentionally).  This was early in the day and he could have thought it wouldn't end up resulting in Iguana's lynch.. I'm actually surprised it got any traction at all.  I guess also if we're looking at a team of four you're more likely to strongly bus one partner.  So, a possible bus.

Says some things about people:

Okay. It ultimately does not matter whether scum actually does or doesn't have daychat.

Jan: Could be of either alignment. No particular meaning behind his post.

Iguanda: So, I admit this is a bit convoluted. It seemed clearer when it happened.

The argument is that he would only think of Jan's comment as a town slip if he thought that whether or not scum has daychat is written in the setup. If it's not written in the setup, then that's just town!Jan making a harmless comment, or scum!Jan making a post like any other, i.e. pretending not to have information. If it is written in the setup then town should know it, and not knowing it is then a town slip, real or fabricated.

So that's why I think he thought it was written in the setup. And the only scenario where he thinks that is if he's scum. He knows anyway, he can forget that it wasn't in the setup. If he was town, he wouldn't know at all, so there's no way he could think it was in the setup.

Seprix: I have no idea what his thought process was.

It's good that you asked me to explain it, because now I realize that it's not as strong as I thought initially. Nonetheless, I don't think it's weak, and I think igu's reaction is bad on its own.

Well he admits here his argument is convoluted.  And he undermines it a bit here without backing off.  He does open the door up here a little bit to looking elsewhere later.

Some other stuff happens, Silver defends Font:

that sudden "let's lynch fontisian" thing seems highly suspect to me. I a) get a town vibe from her posts and b) she's a new player who plays in an odd way on her first game. Who is more likely to adapt their playstyle, town or scum? Well, scum. Obviously.

But

I could be swayed by a good case, though. But right now, scummy business.

Might possibly be looking for a sound reason to get off Iguana.  However, stays on Iguana, deadline comes up and Iguana gets lynched.

End of Day 2.  Bus narrative is possible but not strong.  Otherwise Silver's play this day was very.. under the radar, I suppose.  Like present but not really involved, aside from initiating Iguana.  Mostly null.